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Do not deface books by marks and writing. HE6300.A3rP22"''lTl''r'''"^ Parcels post : ^,.^ 3 1924 030 127 504 |l Cornell University J Library The original of tiiis book is in tine Cornell University Library. There are no known copyright restrictions in the United States on the use of the text. http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924030127504 PAECELS POST HEARINGS BEFORE SUBCOMMITTEE NO. 4 OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE POST OFFICE AND POST ROADS HOUSE OF EEPRESENTATIYES JUI^E, 1911 WASHINGTON GOVEBNMENT PBINTINQ OipS'lOj) 19U PARCELS POST HEARINGS BEFORE SUBCOMMITTEE No. 4 OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE POST OFFICE AND POST ROADS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES JAMES T. LLOYD, Chairman. DANNITTE H. MAYS. JOHN W. WEEKS. THOMAS M. BELL. JOHN J. GARDNER. CURTIS H. GREGG. DANIEL F. LAFEAN. Jo J. IviNS, Clerk. JTJ]^E, 1911 WASHINGTON GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE V isu K bioo As/ Plx. ICfIt l\.^■^5bfc>6 PAEOELS POST. Subcommittee No. 4 or the Committee ON the Post Ofeice and Post Roads, House Sf Representatives, Wednesday, June I4, 1911. The subcommittee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. James T. Lloyd presiding. The Chairman. The committee will come to order. The purpose of the meeting of the subcommittee this morning is to consider the subject of parcels post, and to consider the subject in all its bearings. I understand it is understood that Mr. Sulzer in advocacy of his biU wishes to be heard first. Mr. Lewis. Mr. Chairman, there are various views represented here, and since the time of the committee is limited there ought to be some arrangement, it seems to me, for a division of it. The Chairman. I want to say this, that I had promised Mr. Lewis that he might be heard this morning some time. While it may not be in the regular order, as soon as you get through, Mr. Sulzer, with your statement, I will be very glad of Mr. Lewis is permitted to make his statement, and for this reason: Mr. Lewis has a new scheme a little different from that which has been heretoforp presented, and at the outset it would be well for that scheme to be presented to the com- mittee in order that the committee itself, and those that are here, may have an opportunity to make inquiry with reference thereto. Mr. SuLZEK. That will be agreeable to me. Mr. CowLES. We have two of the leading representatives of the Postal Process League who will be obliged to leave here this after- noon — President Beach and Mr. Bloomingdale, who is counsel of the Retail Dry Goods Association. The Chairman. We think we will have time to hear them. STATEMENT OF HON. WILLIAM SULZEB. Mr. Sulzer. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I appear here this morning in favor of two bills introduced by me in the House of Representatives providing for a general parcels post throughout the United States, to wit, H. R. 14, introduced by me on April 4, 1911, and H. R. 9844, introduced by me on May 11, 1911. To save the time of the committee, and as most of the gentlemen here are familiar with these bills, I will not take the time to read them, but will ask the stenographer to incorporate them in the record. (The bills referred to are as follows :) [H. B. 14, Sixty-second Congress, First session.] A BILL To reduce postal rates, to imporve the postal service, and to increase postal revenues. Be it enacted by the Senate and Bouse of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the common weight limit of the domestic postal semce of the United States is hereby increased to eleven pounds, the common Imiit of the Uni- 4 PABCELS POST. versal Postal Union, and that in the general business of the post office the one-cent-an- ounce rate on general merchandise— fourth-class mail matter— be, and is nereoy, reduced to the third-class rate, one cent for each two ounces or fraction thereof. . Sec 2 That the rate on local letters or sealed parcels posted for delivery withm me free-delivery services is hereby determined at two cents on parcels up to four omices, ; one cent on each additional two ounces; at nondelivery offices, one cent for eacn two °™E?'3 That all mail matter collected and delivered within the different rural routes of the United States is hereby determined to be in one class, with rates, door to door, between the different houses and places of business and the post office or post offices on each route, as follows: On parcels up to one twenty-fourth of a cubic foot, or one by six by twelve inches in dimensions and up to one pound in weight, one cent; on larger parcels up to one-half a cubic foot, or six by twelve by twelve inches m dimen- sions and up to eleven pounds in weight, five cents; on larger parcels up to one cubic foot, six by twelve by twenty-four inches in dimensions and up to twenty-five pounds in weight, ten cents. No parcel shall be over six feet in length, and in no case shall a carrier be obliged to transport a load of over five hundred pounds. Sec. 4. That on all unregistered prepaid mail matter without declared valued an indemnity up to ten dollars shall be paid by the Post Office Department for such actual loss or damage as may occur through the fault of the postal service, and this without extra charge. Certificates of posting shall be provided on demand. On registered parcels of declared value, and on which the fee for registration, insurance, and postage has been duly prepaid, the Post Office Department shall pay the full value of any direct loss or damage that may occur through the fault of the postal service. The fees for insurance and registration shall be as follows: For registration and insur- ance up to fifty dollars, ten cents; for each additional fifty dollars, two cents. No claim for compensation will be admitted if not presented within one year after the parcel is posted. Sec. 5. That all acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act are hereby repealed. Sec 6. That this act shall take effect six months from and after the date of approval thereof. [H. R. 9844, Sixty-second Congress, first session.] To reduce postal rates, to improve the postal service, and to increase postal revenues. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the common weight limit of the domestic pos1a,l service of the United States is hereby increased to eleven pounds, the common limit of the Universal Postal Union, and that in the general business of the post office the one cent an ounce rate on general merchandise — ^fourth-class mail matter — be, and is hereby, reduced to the third-class rate, one cent for each two ounces or fraction thereof. Sec 2. That the rate on local letters or sealed parcels posted for delivery within the free-delivery services is hereby determined at two cents on parcels up to four ounces, one cent on each additional two ounces; at nondelivery offices, one cent for each two ounces. Sec 3. That general merchandise — fourth-class mail matter — ^not exceeding eleven pounds in weight delivered to any post office or branch post office in the United States without the collection service of the receiving post office and to be called for by the consignee at the post office or branch post office to which it is addressed shall be carried at the following rates: One pound or fraction thereof, five cents; and two cents for each additional pound. And for the purpose of this service the rural delivery wagon shall be considered the post office from which it receives and delivers mail for such route: Provided, That this post office to post office service be restricted to a haul not to exceed fifty miles. And that stamps to be attached to the package in payment for this last- described service shall be of a distinct color and size. Sec 4. That on all unregistered prepaid mail matter without declared value an indemnity up to ten dollars shall be paid by the Post Office Department for such actual loss or damage as may occur through the fault of the postal service, and this without extra charge. Certificates of posting shall be provided on demand On registered parcels of declared value, and on which the fee for registration, insurance and postage has been duly prepaid, the Post Office Department shall pay the full value of any du-ect loss or damage that may occur through tiie fault of the postal service The fees for insurance and registration shall be as follows: For registration and insur- ance up to fifty dollars, ten cents; for each additional fifty dollars, two cents. No claim for compensation will be admitted if not presented within one year after the parcel is posted. Sec. 5. That the word "packet," whenever used in the laws of the United States relating to the postal service, shall mean all matter which is by law made mailable PAKOELS POST. 5 Sec. 6. That the President of the United States he, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to investigate and ascertain the value of the property of the large express companies doing business in the United States, and report the same to Congress with . all convenient speed, to the end that Congress may consider the advisability of acquir- ing all the rights and contracts of these express companies and using the same for the purpose of improving and extending the postal service and reducing its cost. Sec. 7. That all acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act are hereby repealed. Sec. 8. That this act shall take effect six months from and after the date of approval thereof. Mr. Stilzbe. Both of these bills provide substantially for a general parcels post throughout the United States in accordance with the terms or the Universal Postal Union, to wit, that the weight of the parcels shall not exceed 11 pounds and that the postage on the same shall not exceed 8 cents a pound. The neglect of the United States Government to establish a general parcels post has so far limited the exchange of commodities and mer- chandise between the producer and consumer that it is making our Government to-day appear away behind the times as compared with foreign nations, such, for instance, as England, France, Germany, and, in fact, nearly all of the civilized countries of the world which to-day are in the Universal Postal Union. It is a fact to-day that an American in Europe can send home to any part of the United States by mail a parcel weighing two and a half times more than the United States limit, for about one-third less in cost than the present home rates. In other words, the World Postal Union package unit is 11 pounds to the parcel at a rate of 12 cents a pound, whereas the United States unit is only 4 pounds to the pack- age, at a cost of 16 cents a pound. The parcels-post rate in the United States prior to 1874 was 8 cents for a pound for a package limited to a weight of 4 pounds. After that the rate was doubled, but the weight remained the same. Who did this? For whose benefit was it done? Look up the Congressional Records and judge for yourselves. Since 1874 the cost of transportation has greatly decreased. The question is. Why should not the people of the United States be given the benefit of this decrease by the establishment of a uniform low postal rate for parcels that will encourage the use of the post ofiice as a medium of exchange of commodities between the producers and the consumers ? And thus you will facilitate trade and greatly lessen the cost of the necessaries of life. There is no reason in the world why the people of the United States should be deprived of the advantages of this benign legislation for a general parcels post that will bring the producers and the consumers in closer touch and be of inestimable benefit to all the people, espe- cially those who dwell in the large cities and live in the producing sections of the country. It has been adopted in every European country, and it ought to be adopted here. We have either made or are making postal conven- tions with the countries of the world by which their citizens can send through the mails to any part of the United States packages weighing 11 pounds at the universal postal rate, and the people of the United States are prohibited from doing the same thing because of our failure to enact a similar parcels-post law. It is a great injustice to the taxpayers of this country. It is a great discrimination in favor of the foreigner against the citizens of the United States, which is repugnant to my sense of justice. 6 PABCEL6 POST. I am opposed to this inequality, and in order to obviate it I have introduced these two bills providing for a general parcels post along the hnes of the Universal Postal Union. The Postal Progress Leapie of the United States, comprising citizens in every State m the union, has indorsed it, and the representatives of over ten millions ot tax- payers, manv of whom are assembled here to-day, and will speak m behalf of these bills before these hearings are concluded, have mdorsed either both of these bills or one of them. . • ^^ i • .1 • It is a matter for congratulation that this committee is takmg this matter up ia this extraordinary session ivith a view of makmg progress, and I indulge the hope, as a Member of the House of Representatives in. favor of this legislation, and who has been advocating it for many years, that the Democrats to-night in their caucus will provide for considering this legislation at this extraordinary session of Congress. I know whereof I speak when I say that if the Democrats in the House of Representatives will do it we can pass this bill, or a bill along these lines, through the House of Representatives before we adjourn. Then it will be up to the Senate to take action in the matter, and I know the Senators will hear from the people about it, because I know what the people think about it. The time is now at hand to heed the insistent demand of the people for a general parcels post along the line of these bills, the express com- panies, the trusts, the jobbers, and others to the contrary notwith- standing. Some of their representatives, I think, are here, and I for one would be exceedingly glad to hear from them, to find out why they have been for years depriving the taxpayers of the United States of this beneficent legislation in order that they can pay 200 to 1,800 per cent dividends every year on capital stock watered by millions of dollars. The citizens of the United States are certainly entitled to utilize the advantages of their own post-ofiice system the same as the people in Europe now do, and they would gladly do so. Mr. Gaedxee. If agreeable, I would like to interrupt right here. Mr. SuLZER. Certainly. Mr. Gardnee. I am only one member of this subcommittee. I take it that not only the 10,000,000, but probably all of the United States is anxious for a parcels post. There are two C|.uestions that are paramount to my mind in this committee, and continual citations of Europe are not of consequence until it is shown that the same system and substantially the same rates can be conducted over a system with an average haul probably eight times as great. That is the difficulty, if you call it a difficulty, that I would like to have cleared up. Mr. SuLZEE. We will clear that up if you will give us an opportu- nity before we get through with these hearings. Mr. Gaedner. And, secondly, if the Universal Postal Union agree- ment is to be made a basis on which we are to proceed, then the argu- ment turns on the wisdom and the financial possibihty of that system extended as a national thing. Those are the two questions, and I wish, for myself only, that those two questions might be argued. The Chairman. I suppose it would be as well to allow Mr. Sulzer to discuss those things in his own way. He probably -w-ill cover those points before he gets through. PARCELS POST. 7 Mr. StTLZER. Quite so. Now, the citizens of the United States are certainly entitled to utilize the advantages of their own post-ofBce ^stem the same as the people in Europe do, and they would gladly do so if Congress would only enact a law; and to this end I appeal to all patriotic citizens to lend a helping hand to pass this legislation. The demand for a parcels post is growing more insistent. Popular sentiment has now crystallized in a general desire in favor of a general parcels post throughout the country. I believe the people favor it universally, and I feel confident its establishment wul be of inesti- mable benefit and of incalculable advantage to all concerned. The post office is one of the oldest of governmental institutions, an agency estabhshed by the earhest civiuzations; and the only limit upon the service should be .the capacity of its transport machinery. A general parcels post once established, with reasonable rates, regardless or distance, regardless of the character of matter trans- ported, and regardless of the volume of the patrons' business, is eminently fitted for great service to the people. That it should be extended over the entire field of postal transportation is absolutely certain, and the people will duly appreciate the aid of those who assist in its extension and development. As far back as 1837 Rowland Hill, of England, promulgated to the world the law, that no one has ever disputed since, that once a public transportation service is in operation the cost of its use is regardless of the distance traversed upon the moving machinery by the unit of traffic, whatever its capacity, and upon this law was founded the establishment of the Enghsh penny letter post of 1839. The idea of charging higher postage on a letter or a parcel on account of the greater distance it travels is an absurdity, and it is so recognized by every expert who has looked into the subject. It is because I realize the force of these truths so keenly that I am so persistent in urging favorable consideration of this legislation for a general parcels post. Its only fault, in my opinion, is its conserva- tism. What this country now wants — what Congress should give it — is a general parcels post covering much of the business of public trans- Sortation, and so, imbued with these views and conscious of the esires of the people, I prepared and introduced in this Congress these bUls to inaugurate a general parcels post, and in the future, as in the past, I shall continue to advocate them until this legislation is finally written on the statute books of our country. Sooner or later it must be done. The people want it, and what the people want they generally get. Now, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I have a number of letters and telegrams from associations throughout the United States, from societies, business people, writers, political economists, and others, and I ask the consent of the committee, when the record is made up, to incorporate these in the record for the information of the Members of the House. The CHAmMAN. Mr. Sulzer, I would like .to have you iadicate in each case what you want to put into the record. We have found the record cumbered in times past with matter that the committee would never have agreed to be put into the record if it had known in advance what it was. If you can, indicate what you want to go in the record. 8 PABCELS POST. Mr. SiiLZEE. I will indicate it now. These are resolutions in favor of these bills. ^ ,, i^„f„_„ TheCHAiEMAN. Kesolutions by whom? Have you them beiore ^'^Mr. SuLZER. I have some of them here. These are resolutions of associations and societies in favor of this legislation, resolutions by business people, telegrams from associations and societies and business people, letters from the people, and telegrams from the people, all iu favor of this legislation. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I will not take up any more of the time of the committee with remarks of my own, because I realize that there are gentlemen here from various parts of the country who desire to be heard as soon as possible in order to return to their homes. I introduce to the committee as the first speaker this morning—; — The Chairman (interposing). Wait a minute. This committee, Mr. Sulzer, as a committee, and many of the Members of Congress, have doubtless received the same things that you have received in these resolutions. They are a matter of common notoriety, and I think I can speak for the subcommittee that we do not wish to cumber this particular record and to go to the expense of printing all these communications, which everyone of us has received. Now, if you have some special communication which none of us has re- ceived, which will give light on the subject, we would not object, I think. Mr. Sulzer. I will put nothing into the record except communica- tions and telegrams that are sent to me and that in my judgment are not sent to other Members of the House. Mr. Bell. Do they throw any light on the subject ? Mr. Sulzer. Yes; they do. Mr. Bell. Or are they merely indorsements of the scheme ? Mr. Sulzer. They throw considerable light on the subject, in my opinion. I will say to the gentlemen of the committee that I will not encumber the record by putting in duplicates and things of that kind, or just ordinary telegrams or resolutions favoring this legislation. The Chalbman . How many of them are there ? Mr. Sulzer. I will not put in the record more than a dozen or so. They are all short. The Chairman. You say a dozen or so. Do you mean one dozen, or two dozen, or what ? Mr. Sulzer. Well, I will say not over a dozen. Mr. Gregg. Could you indicate to us the tenor of them ? Mr. Sulzer. Yes; I can give you the tenor of them. The Chairman. Well, read one of them. Mr. Sulzer. Here is one that I received this morning. I receive a great many of these, and they are of a similar tenor, and I do not intend to put m duplicates, not where they are all about the same. But here IS one: [Telegram.] Hon. William Sulzer, ^^^°^"^' ^^«=-' '^"'^ '^- '^''- House of Representatives, Washington, D. C: The fanners of WaahiMton are with you in your fight for a general parcels post TeU every Member of Congress from Idaho, Washington, and California that^e tarmera know what they want and expect these members to support your bill. C. P. Kegley, Master Washington State Grange. PABCELS POST. 9 The Chairman. That telegram furnishes no light whatever and no information which this committee is concerned to loiow, and I am very sure that I speak for the committee in saying that we do not wish this record cumbered with that kind of material. Mr. SuLZEK. Here is another telegram I received this morning from Mr. Ingram, one of the largest merchants in Detroit. I will be glad to read this telegram: [Telegram.] Hon. William Sulzbe, House of Representatives, Washington, D. C: CongresBman Doremus has many telegrams from prominent Detroit business men and concerns indorsing your parcels-jjost bill. Business men have been won over to its support. Mr. Doremus wfll explain everything to the committee. Hope the bill will be reported and passed. Frederick F. Ingram. Mr. Gkegg. Is not Mr. Ingram the author of this little booklet called "Report on Parcels Post by Committee on Freight and Trans- portation of the Manufacturing Perfumers' Association of the United States"? Mr. SxiLZEE. He is the man. Now, I want to say that I have no disposition to encumber the record with a lot of telegrams and letters and resolutions, and so forth. I will only put in a few that I think are pertinent and important. Tlie Chairman. Those telegrams and those resolutions you might read if you were delivering a speech on the floor of the House and call attention to them, and the House could act on them. But I do not think, and I feel our committee feels that way, from the httle expressions I get around me here, that this record should be cumbered with anything that is not bearing on the necessity for a parcels post. We will get at the question. We have all manner of petitions before this committee. We have hundreds of them with reference to the parcels post proposition, some for it and some against it, and we therefore get at the question of public sentiment, and that is all that is to be gathered from those telegrams, as I see it. I therefore hope you will not ask us to burden the record. Mr. SuizEE. I do not ask that. All I ask is to put in a few resolu- tions and letters and telegrams that I have which I think throw light upon the subject matter, and that nobody else has or has received; and as I say, they will not exceed a dozen. However, I shall not insist. " Let it go. I can put them in the Congressional Record later' on. The Chairman. Well, is your statement through? Mr. SuxzEE. Yes. Mr. Gregg. If you start to allow one to do it, you will have to allow all. The Chairman. I understand that. We will have a committee meeting and pass upon that proposition, but I will not do tha,t right now. Mr. SuLZER. I now present to the committee The Chairman (interposing). Just a minute, please. At this time I ask that Mr. Lewis be heard, and then you can go ahead. Mr. SxiLZER. Certainly; that is agreeable. STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID J. LEWIS, Air. Lewis. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I thank you for the opportunity you have extended to me, and I trust that what I may be able to suggest to you by way of help will be worthy of the preference you have given me. I wiU ask the commit- tee when they think I am not talking to the point to remind me of the value of their time. Before my election to the Sixty-second Congress I may say that I had given this subject about the average attention. I did not then fuUy appreciate the dependency of the whole proposition upon the question of the rates for railway transportation. After my election it became my duty to make a study of the whole subject. I had, perhaps, some qualification, for I have long made railway economics here and abroad a subject of study. In December the Government issued its first annual report on the statistics of express companies for the year 1909, which developed the fact that the average pay of the express companies to the railways for carrying express matter was about three-fourths (0.74) of a cent a pound, while the postal reports show that the Government paid for its letter or maU trans- portation about 4 (4.06) cents a pound, barring the weight of equip- ment in both cases. The Chairman. Now, you say that letters cost 4.06 cents per pound to carry them ? Mr. Lewis. Excluding equipment. The figures for the express matter exclude equipment too. The Chairman. Well, including equipment what is the expense? Air. Lewis. The postal rate per pound including equipment would be about two and a half cents. I am estimating now. The Chairman. What you mean is the transportation charge, the amount that is paid to the raUroad company per letter? Mr. Lewis. For carrying per pound the mail deposited with the railroad company. The Chairman. But that includes all kinds of mail — ^letters, packages, and everything that is carried through the mails ? Air. Lewis. Everything carried for the postal system. Mr. Gardner. Do your figures show how you arrive at that? Mr. Lewis. Oh, yes; the verification is in there. Mr. Gardner. Well, further, does not the fact of the letter car- riage, the way the letters are handled in transit, and the room required, increase that average rate much above what it would be in a purely package or parcels post ? Mr. Lewis. Oh, quite so, Mr. Gardner. There is no comparison between the rates which have to do with carrying mail and the rates which have to do with carrying express matter. Mr. Gardner. What apphes to express matter, you mean would apply to parcels post conducted on that principle ? ' 10 PARCELS POST. 11 Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. In other words, if conducted under the statu quo of the post office to-day and its railway rates, the Government would be committing the extravagance of paying about 4 cents a pound for the carriage of these parcels, when it ought to pay about three-quarters of a cent per pound. Mr. Gardner. One moment. That is just what I asked the ques- tion to show, if it be true that it is not so. The Government pays an average rate which is whatever the figures are. Mr. Lewis. Yes. Mr. Gardner. Now, is it not true that the larger cost per pound for that carrying, so called, is on letters, and true equally so that a lesser cost per pound is on the other matter ? Mr. Lewis. The method of compensating the railways in the post- office system is to weigh the mail and pay them on a scale with which, of course, the committee is famifiar. Mr. Gardner. Which would need readjustment, of course ? Mr. Lewis. Yes. It was apparent to me at once that the parcels function could not be successfully or economically discharged by the Government on the basis of letter-transportation rates. And then the economic significance of another fact developed: It was that the express com- panies' service was at a disadvantage, even greater than that of the post office, in regard to the nonrailway transportation of its parcels. The express companies have no agency and at present rates can not secure an agency to satisfactorily reach nonrailway or rural points. In short, it appeared that the express companies had exclusive con- trol of one of the absolutely essential conditions of fast package transport, the express rate of three-quarters of a cent a pound, while the post office had equally exclusive possession of the other great agency of necessary service — the rural delivery system. Common sense indicated what the solution must be; these two advantages, the railway express transportation rate and the rural delivery system must be made cooperative; must be united under one control. The express railway transportation rate would, if the Government parcels amounted to but one-fourth of the express business, save it, if in its control, at least $50,000,000 a year, while the addition of rural de- livery to the express business would add to this great service the farming population of our country at practically no cost to them or the country. The biU I have introduced for postal express is the result of these conditions. principal provisions of the postal express bill. As I have said, the idea of the bill is to unite in one service the two great instrumentahties above named, in order that a greatly cheapened and an even more extended service to the pubUc may be had. For this purpose the bill provides for the compulsory pur- chase by condemnation of the railway-express company contracts and franchises, as well as the equipment and property devoted to the express business per se, and their subsequent employment by the postal department in connection with rural delivery and the postal system. The express-railway transportation privileges are all the subject of contracts between the railways and express companies. They constitute the primary condition of the express service, and 12 PABCELS POST. while the equipment and other facilities are only immediately neces- sary to a running plant, and their acquisition is provided for, it is the contracts which constitute the conditions sine qua non ot the service. Happily, there can be no legal question as to the n^ht of the Government to acquire these contracts and other facilities upon providing just compensation. I niay say at this point that under notes to the bill, printed as Appendix A, the legal and con- stitutional phases of the subject are severally discussed. With this brief reference to the more general features of the sub- ject, I will pass on to a more precise and methodical discussion of what seem to be the points more particularly worthy of attention. I shall refrain from the express or impUed abuse which so many people think justified with regard to the express companies, and in order to do this will confine myself strictly to economic data and reasoning, as most likely to elucidate the truth. And I shall endeavor to make the study as brief as possible by referring all but the points of the subject to the appendixes, where those who are more especially interested may find the data in its original detail. NECESSITY FOR POSTAL EXPRESS. In addition to those grave needs for such a service, which the majority of national communities have recognized, as commending its adoption domestically and internationally, there exist in the United States supplementary reasons which it is believed render the institution uncommonly necessary. Briefly summarized, they are: (a) The greater area over which our population is distributed and correlatively greater transportation distances which consume so much time by freight that a fast or express service needs to be resorted to m a larger number of instances than if the journey were short. -^ (6) The 100-pound minimum and corresponding charge in rail- way practice and the inadaptability of railway methods to diminu- tive consignments. (c) The prohibitive minunum charge of the express companies m respect to small consignments. (d) Absence of railway "collect and delivery" service and ab- sence of "collect and delivery" service by express companies as to our farmmg population and a large portion of our urban population. . W incalculable waste of transportation effort, so far as made, m movement of necessaries of life from the farms to points of con- sumption, a serious factor in our high cost of living of theXttn*.^^ ""f '^ ^"a ^^'* ?'^^^^^ ''''^^ ^^Pe^d upon the greatness ot the distance, when demand is immediate, as much as upon the valuable or perishable character of the shipment Tn our ommtrf :;\'ong ^rS-lu'rt/^'th^e^H^'^* °^^V -i^^ -^om thr^ertr^s ofo^hf^ fli!\-^l the demand for speed to overcome the ob- stacles of the time lost m distance, the time-element neceSv for an express service is correspondingly increased- and «n fi, ^-^ .? ta.es of inadequate or m^econo^i^al S;rS',eTvirare vitf^T: railway orgamzation of America and i^ts system of Jraltices ISMCO"*"*iO«OCDOSO>n»O00Oi- H c^ w Qi wenco •9JBI ssdidx^ HC«c-osO IS 03-3 •2,g s is O P4 •9!^ei ssaidxa HC^C-1C<1®4«W*"*5DOOOO '3}BJ ssajdxs •3%'ei ssaidxa ^OS«4MMCO»OOt^ *8)Bi ssdidxa l^sod aAi:jB5a8j, ■9}Bi ssaidxa ^Ma^wmco-*»om *3:^B1 SS3ldX9 I«:>sod aAUBjirax •9}BJ ssaidxa H N N ©*«■*!' ^ -3}«I SS3ldX3 IB}Sod aAHKjnaj, ttlOU3tOOcOCOOOO>0 •3}ei ssaidxa ■3;EJ SS3ldX3 l^^sod 3A!}B^nai i-ii-t.-H-^rHi-lT-l(N(NeilN Ss 28 PARCELS POST. It should be noted that the tentative rates from 5 to 40 pomids are speciaUy loaded to cover their relative cost of terminal service^ It must not be concluded from the manner m which the American freight, German and Austrian, or American express rates approach to frfall below what is here denominated the 'square root curve, that any of the rate makers acted on the formula, or even had it in mind. The freight rates of the 42 railways referred to would rather indicate that the rate makers were aimmg at a target, the extenor outlines of which could be dimly seen, but the center pomt ol which was not visible; and while the individual rates usually approximated, they did not coincide exactly with the Talcott scale. I thmk, how- ever that a system of express rates formulated on this principle, while giving mobihty to traffic covering long distances, would be ample to cover the relative cost of the service. SIMPLICITT OF RATES. The importance of having a simple formula by which, the weight of package being known, the application of a scale to a map would readily determine the charge, is obvious. Devices for this piu^ose at once suggest themselves. Each county might be regarded as a point, and measurements to that point from like points coiild easily be made. East post office or habitual user of the service might attach to a pivot set in the map, at the point of sending, a scale to rotate to any desired point and, adjoining the point of destination, the scale woidd show the cost, according to the pounds in the package, without the possible errors of computation. Fractions of the square root would of course be rejected. Stamps or printed slips attached to the package, stamped with number of office and of package, and date, would also show weight, character, insurance, and distance of ship- ment, supplying automatically a record of the pounds and pound- mileage for each office, and, as desired the Jilce data for the whole country. AU this by the simple expeclient of printed identification slips or stamps adapted to the different weights and distances, and arranged in a cabinet as passenger tickets may be seen in ticket offices. Under existing circumstances there is no rule by which one can detef- mine the cost of shipment short of application for quotation of the rate at the express office. And with respect to the number of express rates and their com- plexity the situation is not fundamentally different from that of freight rates. An inspection of the division of express rates and tariffs in the Interstate Commerce Commission shows 8 shelves, each approximating 120 feet in length, filled with these express tariffs, filed like books — or 960 feet of library shelving. If anyone shouM think this a matter of small significance, let him consider the com- plexity in mere numbers alone of the freight rates of the country, said to be over 800,000,000,000, one of which is the right and aU others the wrong rate for the shipment at hand. BASIS OF TENTATIVE POSTAL EXPRESS RATES. The express report for 1909 shows the average product of all the express rates to have been about IJ (1.56) cents per pound. The PARCELS POST. 29 following table gives, in a summarized form, the official data upon the subjects of the number, weights, revenue per class, revenue per pound, and so forth, of the express traffic. Statistics of total revenue tonnage for months of April, Augiist, and December, 1909. ' Weight. Revenue. ■ Eeve- nue per piece. Reve- nue per pound. Percent of total. Number. Num- ber. Weight. Reve- nue. 67,469,488 3,506,651 37^56 Pounis. 1,725,191,630 563,813,172 40, 337, 390 130,006,746 5,250,078 599,727 Cents. 44.47 149. 72 1,614.08 Cents. 1.74 .93 1.49 95.01 4.94 .06 74.06 24.21 1.73 83.69 Ovpr innpniiTirts 14.64 Extraordmary shipments 1.67 Total or average 71, 013, 295 2,329,342,192 35,856,551 50.49 1.61 100.00 100.00 100 00 From this table it appears that the traffic at 1.74 cents per pound produces 83.69 per cent of the revenue; that the traffic at 0.93 cent a pound produces 14.64 per cent of the revenue; while from that con- veyed at 1.49 cents per pound less than 2 per cent (1.69) is realized. BASAL RATE. Entering into the structure of the tentative postal express rates are three inferential facts, upon the approximate vaJidity of which depends their general accuracy. These facts are summarized : (a) The average haul of 196 miles. (b) "-The average charge per pound of 1.12 cents. (c) Sufficiency of loading for light parcels. The average length of haul for freight is known to be 251 nules (251.1) for 1909, the average having mcreased to that figure from 242.73 in 1900. There are no reports of the express coinpanies which show the average length of haul for express matter, it is believed that it may exceed the freight haul, and is very unlikely to be less, and the reasons for this belief may be worthy of statement. A refer- ence to Appendix A shows that seven countries specfficaUy report the express and freight hauls, and for these countries the average express haul is 68.7 miles and the freight 66.7 nules, showing a percentage of about 3 per cent in favor of the former. Being obliged to resort to inference as to the haul in the United States, there are several peculiar circumstances to be noted. First, the exceptionally high express charges here as compared with those of Argentina and Europe, and here the question arises, What would their effect be on the length of the American haul ? At first blush it might seam that they would tend to restrict the traffic. This, I believe, is true. Doubliag the charges in the passenger traffic would probably reduce the passenger mileage by a percentage approaching one-half and greatly reduce the average journey. But the cases of the express and passenger traffic are not wholly similar. There is practically no declension of the rate with the increase of the passen- ger joiraiey. As we have seen, the case is wholly different with respect to our express rates. There is a marked declension for 30 PAECELS POST. increasing distances in express transportation, and so it seems rea- sonable to say that while our express rates probably do greatly reduce the volume of the possible traffic a like effect on the length of the haul ^ farThe^^mafked declension m the rate for long distances; and (6) The greater necessity for express or dispatch speed on account of the greater distances themselves. . It is probably the exaggerated necessity flowmg Irom this cause that helps to lift the volume of the American traffic to withm some relation to the volume ia other countries. ' I think it is not improbable that the express haul here not only exceeds the freight in length, but that 300 miles is an approximation of its length. However, to be manifestly safe, I have adopted 196 miles as the average haul in constructing the table that follows, as well as in the general table of tentative rates for all other distances, which precedes. KATE OF 1.12 PEE POUND FOK AVERAGE HAUL. The tables accept this datum as the cost of the averaM pound under postal express for the average distance. It is a deduction from the argument on "savings" according to which the express work of 1909, which represented gross charges of 1.56 cents per pound, can be accomplished under postal express at about l-j^^ (1.12) cents a pound. It is not thought that the limits of this base would involve any risk of trenching on the ability of the service to fully pay its way. The practical certainty that the haul is from 25 to 50 per cent greater than predicated for the expense of the transporta- tion rate would, in practice, show a profit on this rate of from 10 to 20 points on the transportation element, amounting to 0.74 cent a pound. There is besides the special loading of the pound rates of from 6 cents to 2 cents on the parcel of from 1 to 40 pounds, which is designed to protect the service cost with adequate revenue. But this service is already paid for in tjie case of rural free delivery, and a substantial gain in revenues over expenditures should be realized from this special loading. In order to clarify, a table is now presented, giving rates for the average haul on parcels from 1 to 50 pounds and for 60, 70, 80, 90, and 100 pounds in weight, showing the portion of the base charge per pound — that is, of 1.12 — which is assigned for "transportation," express general expense," "collect and delivery," and "special collect and delivery. There is also presented the present average express charge and the charge under the several parcels-post bills, proposing a rate of 8 cents a pound. PAHCELB POST. 31 Rates per pound and loadings for postal express service, railway, collect and delivery, and special collect and delivery, and the present average rates of express companies, and rates under various parcels-post bills on average haul, assumed as 196 miles. I '.'•'''^ : Loadings. Total postal express rate. Present express rate. Pounds up to— Railway transpor- tation. Express general expense. Collect and de- livery. Special collect and de- livery. Parcel TKISt bills rates. 1 Cents. 0.74 1.48 2.22 2.96 3.70 4.44 5.18 5.92 6.66 7.40 8.14 8.88 9.62 10.36 11.10 11.84 12.58 13.32 14.06 14.80 15.54 16.28 17.02 17.76 18.50 19.24 19.98 20.72 21.46 22.20 22.94 23.68 24.42 25.16 25.90 26.64 27.38 28.12 28.86 29.60 30.34 31.08 31.82 32.56 33.30 34.04 34.78 35.52 36.26 37.00 44.40 51.80 59.20 66.60 74.00 Cents. 0.27 .54 .81 1.08 1.35 1.62 1.89 2.16 2.43 2.70 2.97 3.24 3.51 3.78 4.05 4.32 4.59 4.86 5.13 5.40 5.67 5.94 6.21 6.48 6.75 7.02 7.29 7.66 7.83 8.10 8.37 8.64 8.91 9.18 9.45 9.72 9.99 10.26 10.53 10.80 11.07 11.34 11.61 11.88 12.15 12.42 12.69 12.96 13.23 13.50 16.20 18.90 21.60 24.30 27.00 Cents. 0.11 .22 .33 .44 .55 .66 .77 .88 .99 1.10 1.21 1.32 1.43 1.54 1.65 1.76 1.87 1.98 2.09 2.20 2.31 2.42 2.63 2.64 2.75 2.86 2.97 3.08 3.19 3.30 3.41 3.52 3.63 3.74 . 3.85 3.96 4.07 4.18 4.29 4.40 4.61 4.62 4.73 4.84 4.95 5.06 5.17 5.28 5.39 5.50 6.60 7.70 8.80 9.90 11.00 Cents. 5.88 6.76 5.64 6.62 5.40 6.28 5.16 6.04 4.92 4.80 4.68 4.56 4.44 4.32 4.20 4.08 3.96 3.84 3.72 3.60 3.48 3.36 3.24 3.12 3.00 2.88 2.76 2.64 2.52 2.40 2.28 2.16 2.04 1.92 1.80 1.68 1.56 1.44 1.32 1.20 1.08 .96 .84 .72 .60 .48 .36 .24 .12 .00 Cents. 0.07 .08 .09 .10 .11 .12 .13 .14 .16 .16 .17 .18 .19 .20 .21 .22 .23 .24 .25 .26 .27 .28 .29 .30 .31 .32 .33 .34 .35 .36 .37 .38 .39 .40 .41 .42 .43 .44 .45 .46 .47 .48 .49 .50 .61 .52 .53 .54 .65. .66 .67 .78 .90 1.01 1.12 Cents. Cents. 08 2 .16 3... . . ... .24 4 .32 5 0.43 .40 6 .48 7. .. . . ... .66 8 .64 9.. . . .72 10 .51 .80 11 . . .. . .88 12 .96 13 1.04 14 1.12 15 . . . 1.20 16 1.28 17 1.36 18 1.44 19 1.62 20 .60 1.60 21 1.68 22 1.76 23 1.84 24.. 1.92 25 2.00 26 2.08 27 2.16 2.24 29 . 2.32 30 .73 2.40 31. .. . 2.48 2.56 33. 2.64 34 : 2.72 35 2.80 36 2.88 37 2.96 38 3.04 39 3.12 40 ■.. .82 3.20 41 3.28 42 3.36 43 3.44 44 3.62 45. .. 3.60 46 3.68 47 3.76 48 3.84 49 3.92 50 .95 1.08 1.22 1.28 1.30 1.30 4.00 60. .. 4.80 5.60 80 6.40 90 7.20 100 8.00 The foregoing table is designed to cover the statistical average haul, set here as 196 rmles, but believed to be in fact about 300 miles. Excepting those rates below 50 pounds, which are specially loaded, the tentative postal-express rates are computed hj dividing 1.12 by the square root of the assumed average haul, 14, which produces eight one-hundredtlis of a cent (per square-root unit) per pound. Thus, if it be desired to find the rate on 100 pounds for 3,600 miles, the square root of which distance is 60, this square-root number is multi- pfied by 8 and the product multiplied by the number of pounds, 32 PABCELS POST. which gives the rate as $4.80, equaling $96 per ton, the average express company rate now being $297 per ton. Of course^ there could be no traffic to speak of at these company rates, so that their elimination would not actuaUy affect the receipts ot the railways, while the postal-express rates, which would render such traliic feasible, would greatly advantage all. ^ r,. ^, It is to be noted that of the three classes of traffic the gross mcome per pound for which is given, in the report of 1909, as 84 per cent at 1.74 cents and 1.67 per cent at 1.49 cents, all much above the 1.12 base adopted in this study, there is also a third line of traffic producing 14.64 per cent of the gross income, which was carried at 0.93 of a cent per pound. These rates— 0.93 on a pound— would of course continue to operate until the development of the system enabled the postal department to reform if not to reduce them. The shipments in this class consist of packages exceeding 100 pounds in weight, and the relatively low rate at which the companies appear to have carried them suggest the commodity rates of a,n ordinary freight tariff. They suggest, too, that the Postmaster General could very probably employ such commodity rates to save the fruit grow- ers' crops from going to waste in the fields because of inhibitory express rates while the consumers were demanding an increased sup- ply. But the data is insufficient for definite discussion of this por- tion of the subject, and so I leave it. In the computation of pros- pective receipts, as a whole, from the proposed rates, the tentative rate revenue produced is only predicated of the traffic hitherto mov- ing on the average major rates, and the revenue from the 0.93 of a cent a pound traffic is accordingly computed. DEVEI.OPMENT OF TEAFFIC. It is believed that a great increase of the traffic would result from the reduction of the rates and the extension of the service beyond the cities to the country. That the traffic is now laboring under a radical restriction of volume because of the inhibitory charges, and the exclu- sion of the rural population becomes apparent in its absolute and relative quantity when compared with tne express traffic in other countries. A table is now inserted giving comparative data in this respect : Ratios of express to freight traffic in several countries. Countries. Argentina Austria Belgium France Germany Hungary Average (except United States) United States Eatios. Per capita. Express. Freight. Express. Freight. Pounds. Tom. 64 165 5.34 97 117 6.63 82 199 8.16 63 141 3.74 113 140 7.99 84 68 2.77 82 138 6.61 165 99 8.15 From this table it appears that the ratios of the express weights to the freight weights is only one-half here of what it is abroad, while the freight traffic per capita here exceeds the average freight traffic abroad PARCELS POST. 33 by 31 per cent. The express trafl&c abroad exceeds that here by 39 per cent, and the express figures do not include the weights of the parcels carried by post abroad, which would further accentuate the disparity. It appears from the express report that the ratios of the charge made by the railways to the express companies here for carrying express parcels is as 7.8 to 1, a ratio which, excluding the express ele- ment, is itself greater than the ratio of the whole express charge abroad. If the volume of the express business in the United States were made normal, the railways themselves would reap a greater increased revenue, even at a considerable reduced transportation charge. It is believed that as this increased to a normal traffic of nine or ten or more millions of tons, instead of the four and a half millions of tons now reahzed, it is perhaps not too much to hope that the transportation pound rate might fall from 0.74 to 0.50 or there- abouts. Even with such an approach to the normal the transporta- tion rate per ton would be far above the usual and the revenue to the railways from a service not operatively more costly would be about $100,000,000. as against their present revenue of about $64,000,000. POSTAL EXPRESS RAILWAY PAT. The basis of the contracts of the railways with the express com- panies for the railway share is a percentage of the charge per pack- age made by the express companies and a summary of the contract is added to tills study as an appendix. Wlien the package traverses more than one line, compensation has to be made to the different railway companies for each such package, and the percentage going to each railway is computed in one of two ways — the mile prorate, in accordance with the length of the participating railway, or the rate prorate, giving each railway compensation as if there were as many shipments as participating railways, or both methods may be applicable to shipments over different hnes. The computation of railway compensation is monthly, and each bill of lading must be consulted and the percentage computed for this purpose. The labor of accounting for packages on one-line traffic is costly in the extreme, but when it is multiplied by two or more railways and two or more express fines the labor becomes stupendous. It is proposed to eliminate this waste of accounting to reafize a saving the amount of winch can hardly be justly stated in smaller terms than its total cost. Instead of computing the amount due each railway from each piece, the biU provides for weighing the express matter at stated times to determine its gross and average weight as a basis of payment to the railway. Let it be said that on a given line of railway the gross weight were found to be 50,000 tons and the gross railway revenue from it were $750,000, or $221 per mile. Tms weight and compensation would give the operative rate per pound under the respective contracts and a basis for future pay- ments. This change in the method would be important for another reason outside of tlie saving, wliich would make it imperative that the railways and the department adopt it. By it, even under the proposed reduced rates, the railways would be secured a fixed com- pensation per pound — that is, an average rate for the average railway 3110—11 3 34 PARCELS POST. of 0.74 out of the 1.12 cents per pound, or 66 per cent of the rate, giving the same gross revenue on the weight of traffic that they now receive. But if the rates were reduced and the compensation were computed according to the practice under the contracts, they would receive only 47.63 per cent of such reduced charges. Thus, both parties would have controlhng financial motives to employ the gross weight rather than the piece method; for if the department urged the old method it would have the terrific accounting biU to pay, while the railways would have their compensation reduced by from $4 to $5 a ton on the basis of an unchanged percentage of rates reduced from one-quarter to one-third or more. As to a inatter that appeals so strongly to the financial interests of both parties and involves an obvious public service, there can be no question that the method provided by the bill would prove more than acceptable. The rail- ways themgelves have come to show a reasonable attitude to the pubhc, and that part of the public which gives attention to trans- portation matters is not willing that the railways should be plainly wronged. During the life of these railway-express contracts — and they run for various periods — their terms, when thus acquired by the Govern- ment, would be scrupulously observed by both parties except as changed by mutual consent. That under the changed order of things they would be so changed for mutual advantage is certain. Whether before or after their expiration one of the changes not unlikely would be from the package basis of payment to the car- space and mileage standard with differential charges for less than full loads on the principle now applied to carload and less-than- carload freight. I'his would protect the railways on the fines of both light and heavy traffic and give the postal department practical liberty to adapt its rates to moving the largest economicaUy feasible amount of traffic. However this may be, after the contracts expire the Postmaster General is empowered to make new ones and to guard against serious error. Appeals for all parties from these contracts are provided to the Interstate Commerce Commission, and from it to the Court of Commerce. A just conclusion is always to be desired, and under the circumstances an intelfigent department and railway administration would hardly fail to see that the promotion of the traffic and the broadest extension of the public service would be the surest guranties of profit to aU concerned. MISCELLANEOUS REMARKS. Naturally there are minor features of the express business, as now conducted and as proposed, that have escaped discussion in this study. One of these is the money-order business. The postal system is so obviously fitted to discharge this work that further comment is not thought necessary, except to say that the bill specifi- cally covers this feature. It may, too, be suggested that no allowance has been made in the chapter on savings for the increased cost of placing the express employees on the postal plane of hours and wages. This very sub- stantial feature has not been overlooked. It is considered that the low rates and the added rural traffic would double the business in a year, and from its increment much more than enough surplus income PARCELS POST. 35 would flow to cover such items. What is actually expected is that the traffic in a few years would increase to about 16,000,000 tons per annum, including the country-to-town traffic now nonexistent. As the autotruck becomes cheapened and further simplified its use would be justified for reasons of economy and service. Other features of the general subject are purposely omitted as tending to excite feeling only, while many of its incidents will await the developments of the discussion. It is thought that the controlling elements have been dealt with, and that the data necessary to form judgment upon the merits of the proposition have been presented. POLITICAL FEASIBILITY. Independently of the matter of fact disclosures brought out in this study which seem to have thus far escaped public notice, public dissatisfaction with the express company has reached the point of emphatic intolerance. I do not repeat or even refer to recent incidents and events, except to say that the express company em- ployees and their compulsory patrons have shown "and are showing this disposition. It is perhaps literally true, for various causes, that these companies have no friendly support except from their stock- holders, and not from all of them; and when it is considered that the express company is not a normal transportation agency, but, an economic parasite existing as a squatter on the postal function, and like other parasites feeding at an inordinate expense to the sustaining subject, it may be reahzed that this dissatisfaction is likely to last. One needs only to refer to the fact that only in the United States and its economic dependencies, Canada and Mexico, does the express company exist. The express part of the function elsewhere is always discharged by the post and the railway, the former performing the coUect and delivery service in Belgium, Austria, and Germany up to the 110 limit, entailing but one profit, the railway profit, which, as we have seen, can be kept within bounds, and excluding the express company profit, which, in its nature, defies prudent and effective reduction, although constituting an egregious percentage on the actual investment. When all this is taken with the exorbitant rates and the inadequate service the constant feeling of alienation of the public toward these companies is comprehensible enough. The people are demanding an effectual remedy and are ready to act. The Parcels Post Conference, called by the Postal Progress League, which met in Washington on the 25th of April, gave definite voice to this demand in the following resolution: That this conference urges upon Congress that it favors the widest extension of the postal function of the Government in the form of a postal express for the carriage of parcels. That among the essential features of such a system we feel called upon to insist upon the following: 1. Complete monopoly in the postal system for the transportation of all matter by law made mailable. 2. Rates therefor sufficient to pay the cost of the service. 3. Provision for the insurance of mail matter at reasonable rates. 4. And further, since the express companies under their contracts with the railways are securing an average rate of three-fourths of a cent per pound, and the Postal Depart- ment is paying an average of 4 cents per pound for mail matter, Congress is urged to consider whether the postal function should not properly be extended to include the express service, thus securing for the transportation of parcels the rail rates of the express companies, etc. 36 PAKCELS POST. THE OPPOSITION. To a large extent the railways are the stockholders. Their man- agers are sufficiently intelhgent to understand inevitable tendencies. They know the status quo certainly involves reductions ot the express rates by the Interstate Commerce Commission, which would auto- matically reduce the express-railway pay. If the reductions only amounted to 10 per cent the railways would lose over $6,000,000 in their compensation, since the express contracts provide not for fixed or pound compensation, but for a percentage of the express rates as collected. Moreover, the railways will also see that a system of postal express would inevitably treble the traffic, so that in a year or two the $60,000,000 they now receive from this source would mount to over a hundred millions, at an inconsiderable additional cost to the plant. The railways will hkely see, as well, a fine opportunity to substantially promote the public welfare, with results to themselves as beneficial as to the country at large. There is no negative opposition — I mean there is no inertia of public opinion on the subject. There is perhaps no reform as to which there has been a longer, a more persistent, or a more general demand for congressional action, and perhaps there is no other single failure of Congress to gratify pubKc demand that has produced so much of the spirit of distrust existing among thoughtful people toward their Representatives. Former Members of this House will, I am sure, appreciate the force of this statement. Manifestly the reduction of express charges and the extension of the cheapened service to the country merchant' would not displease him. Now "he feels that a 4 or an 11 pound limitation of the package does not include him, but, in fact, excludes him. He would welcome this as much as he would a new railway, as it would serve him as well as the farmer. APHORISTIC STATESMEN. There is a growing suspicion of the intellectual fitness, if not of the sincerity, of pubUc men who are so wilHng to serve the people during their campaigns, but who, in office, always meet proposals in the public interest with some Idlhng adage or other, such as "The least government is the best government," "Concentration of power," "PaternaHsm," and so forth. These maxims, mostly invented in the eighteenth century, were designed to fight injustice and tyrrany and not to defend them, to make government more democratic and its agencies more truly promotive of the public welfare. As adages they served their purposes at the time, but it is hardly sane to accept them now as scientific formulae for the determination of twentieth- century programs of improvement and as substitutes for the consid- eration of measures on their merits. That the best modern thought discountenances such inconsiderate use of mere apothegms needs hardly to be proved, yet I am sure the reader will feel interested in an appendix to my remarks giving the views of America's foremost sociologist on this subject. I should not leave this paragraph with- out saying that the proposition is not new in any sense except in our provincial neglect to follow the example of all other nations- that the post office would not be trespassing on an alien function but merely extending its administration to fully cover a field of its 'own and discharging a function it alone can efficiently discharge. PARCELS POST. 37 THE AGRICULTURAL POST. In the present state of things the truck farmer must devote a large part of his time to marketing; that is, to the transportation of his product, however little it may be, to the place of demand. He must also for this purpose provide himself with transportation facilities, however small his business. These involve a horse and its maintenance and care, and a barn; and the expense of both during the unproductive seasons. And yet in a socio-economic sense his work and expense of transportation is the smallest element in his service to the public, although it requires the maximum of upkeep work and expense, if not of capital. The proposed postal collect and delivery eliminates all these, and would enable the truck farmer to enter into the business on a minimum of capital and pursue it on a minimum of labor and expense. The field service of a horse he could hire as occasion might require. Thus the truck-farming industry would receive a necessary impetus and the cost of such foods be greatly reduced to the consumer, saying nothing of the advantage in quality coming from a speedier forwarding to the market by daily allotments instead of the delays now incurred to garner a worth-while load. This application of postal express, with its thoroughly articulated service and regular schedules, may be taken as illustrative of the close relations which may be established between the rural producer and town consumer, as well as between producers and merchants generally. A most interesting monograph, "An agricultural parcels post," by the Hon. J. Henniker Heaton, M. P., is inserted among the appendices. While this subject is dealt with here in a few words, it is none the less true that the farm and suburban forms of production can be so articulated with the points of consumption as to prove of inestimable value to both. A lively description of the system in Germany, by the Hon. J. C. Monaghan, formerly American consul there and now of the Department of Commerce and Labor, is also given in the appendixes. It is manifestly unfair to the proposition to judge its social value on a mere computation of the savings in rates which may be made. While tliis saving would amount to some $35,000,000 a year on the traffic of 1909, and from seventy to a hundred millions a year when the traffic reaches its normal dimensions, yet as large benefits will follow in clearing the prohibitive rate clogs from this necessary con- duit of commerce that it may freely discharge its normal output, in placing the 50,000 express employees on a postal basis, in rendering it easier to engage in and market food production, to relieve the towns and cities of high prices for necessaries of life, and relieve them, too, of the overplus of labor, and pherhaps, too, in aiding in reversing that tendency of population movement from the country to urban centers to which is due the most aggravated and most dis- couraging social problems of our time. ADVANTAGES OF POSTAL EXPRESS. In three years under a postal administration it is beheved that the reformed system will produce: (a) A minimum charge of 7 cents for the first pound, graduated to 17 cents for an 11-pound package, for average distances. 38 PAECELS POST. (b) General reductions of about 28 per cent in aU merchandise charges. • u i (c) The extension of the service to the out-of-town and agricultural population. (d) The elevation of the employees to the plane of the postal sempe. (e) The coordination of country supply of the vital necessaries with urban demand by a cheap and regular collect and dehvery service. if) In 10 years' time, with the development of the traffic, a reduc- tion of rates to about one-half of the present rates. (g) Penny postage, perhaps, through the agricultural product and package post, which ought to, at length, render the Eural or Free De- livery Service seh-sustaining. It is as difficult to describe in detail the manifold economic and social results of a great agency hke this as to give a bill of particulars of the benefits of the postal system. And in this connection it seems not irrelevant to suggest that a proper coordination of the railway mail with the railway express service may indeed render penny post- age feasible. As things are now, the rural free-dehvery agency does not bring a direct fiscal return to pay for itseh. In a few years, as the traffic develops in parcels and agricultural products, the proposed system would enable it to do so. This would assure a considerable financial gift to the account of penny postage. CONCLUSION. I have approached this subject from the standpoint of a transpor- tation economist, if I may assume so much, and may say that the bases of the study are much more than sustained by the facts. I do not think the step is radical, except, perhaps, in the sense of the country's doing rightly and thoroughly that thing which must be done by it in some way. Surely the people are entitled now, after two generations of deprivation, to a .thorough system. The aggra- vated conditions of our high cost of Mving, and the apparent connec- tion of an agricultural rural and railway post with their practical rehef , saying naught of the other necessities for such a system, seem to justify the means I have taken to present the subject to the country. Gentlemen, I thank you for your patience. Mr. Weeks. Before you take your seat I would Hke to ask a ques- tion or two. Does the result of your investigation demonstrate to you that the Government is an economic business agent 1 Mr. Lewis. The United States postal system is the most economic agency in the world. Mr. Weeks. You mean the most economical government agency in the world ? Mr. Lewis. Government agency. I may say I have made com- parisons, too long to go into now, of course, between the Prussian railway system and our own upon standards that may be later dis- cussed, which show that the Prussian railway efficiency is very high, and it seemed to me that if Prussia was very high in railway efficiency as compared to our own, that any comparison of the German postal system with ours would be such as to bring out the fact of efficiency here. ^ Mr. Weeks. I understood you to say that as compared with other nations our governmental supervision of the postal service is efficient ? PABOELS POST. 39 Mr. Lewis. I think our postal work easily the most efhcient in the world. Mr. Weeks. Then the claims that are so frequently made about the business administration of the Post Ofhce Department in your opinion are hardly justified ? Mr. Lewis. Utterly unjustified, except as to personal delinquencies, Eerhaps, here and there, which would happen in the best regulated anks or families. Mr. Weeks. The purpose of my original question was to ask you if you had found that the Government as a Government is an efficient business agency as compared with corporation or individual manage- ment? Mr. Lewis. Where conditions of monopoly must obtain, yes; always so. . Mr. Weeks. Now that premises, of course, that we take a monopoly of the business ? Mr. Lewis. A complete monopoly. Mr. Weeks. Have you made any estimate — I am sorry I was not here to hear the whole of your argument — have you made any estimate as to the additional number of employees who would probably be required by the Government to conduct this service ? Mr. Lewis. The plan contemplates that the present express em- ployees be retained. They amount, in my judgment, excluding the joint railway and express employee, to about 50,000, but there does not exist at this time accurate information with respect to that fact. Mr. Weeks. About 50,000 ? Mr. Lewis. Yes. Mr. Weeks. Do you know what the average rate paid to these 50,000 men is ? Mr. Lewis. No; but I think the average does not much exceed $600. Mr. Weeks. Do you know what the average rate of pay for such men in the postal service would be ? Mr. Lewis. I should suppose it would run from $800 to |900. But let me say that is one of the advantages of this system, that it would elevate the express employee to the plane of the postal employee, improve his efficiency, and improve his pay together. Mr. Weeks. We have no postal employees now whose average is between eight and nine hundred dollars. They are all higher than that. Mr. Lewis. I may be in error as to that. You are asking me for extemporaneous information. I do not happen to be accurately informed on that point. I think if you took all the postal employees, including the rural delivery and others, and divided the total wages by the total number you would find that it would not exceed $800. Mr. Weeks. It would cost very much more than that. But assuming that it would cost $900 and that the average amount paid to the express emplo^rees now is $600, that would mean an increase of $300 per man, would it not, which for 50,000 men would mean $15,000,000. Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. Mr. Weeks. That would be an additional cost at once. Mr. Lewis. Those figures of course are all mere play. They are not pretended to be accurate on my part; only suggestive. 40 PARCELS POST. Mr. Weeks. I do not intend, of course, to commit you to anything which >ou have not investigated. Mr. Lewis. You do not intend to commit jourself, I suppose, to those figures. u ^ t i Mr. Weeks. Well, I commit myself to this extent, that i know from v our suggestion that the average pay of the express employee is $600, and I know that the average pay of postal employees is more than $900. So I say Mr. Lewis (interrupting). I would hke to see your data on that subject, sir. The Chairman. There is no question about that. Mr. Lewis can satisfs" himself about that. Mr! Lewis. The gentleman has raised a very proper question. It is this, that under the plan proposed the express employee would be better treated than he is now. God forbid that he should not be! But it will treat him better. A very large part of the necessary increase of his pay will come from the normal increase of the business. More than twice the required amoimt will ultimately come from giving the rural delivery employee something to do at a pay. The rates in the table here, you will find, are made with a purpose of pro- viding for this service. I have not any question in my mind that under the influence of normal postal and proper express rates in the United States the traffic will quadruple in five years. It is now about four and a half milhon tons, or was in the last report. It ought to be 16,000,000 tons, and the increment or profit from the increase of business in a year wiQ more than cover the additional wages which ought to be granted and which surely would be granted to these express employees. Mr. Weeks. Do you think the Post Office Department should be run for the purpose of profit ? Mr. Lewis. I think it should be run forpurposes of social profit. I think there are instances where a great Government agency like the Post Office might be run at a sHght deficit temporarily. Let me illustrate: You go to an express company or any private individual and say to them, "Here, if you wiU carry 4,000,000 tons you will make $11,000,000 profit; or if you carry 8,000,000 tons you will make $11,000,000 of profit, too." The express company at this juncture would be like Lincoln's mule between two bales of hay. It would hardly know which way to turn; but if the object to be attained by them was $11,000,000 profit they would turn at once to the 4,000,000-ton traffic if the profit of $11,000,000 would be more certainly assured, utterly ignoring the social service which might be involved. In cases like that I should say the Post Office Department should take the risk of a small deficit and double the service to the people. Mr. Weeks. How much of a deficit do you think Congress would be justified in imposing on the postal service in this way which you have illustrated ? Mr. Lewis. I should say, to make a necessary experiment, that a temporary deficit of say $18,000,000 would be the hmit. It has been that high in the past. Mr. Weeks. Plow large a weight would you be in favor of carrying Mr. Lewis, under this service ? ' Mr. Lewis. If we take the express company contract, we ought to do everything that the express companies have done. The reports show that the average package only weighs 32.80 (about 33) pounds PAECELS POST. 41 The Chairman. There is no limit on the weight.] Mr. Lewis. There is no paper limit on the weight. There are actual limits of weight, of course. They would not carry coal by express. Mr. Weeks. Would you suggest some limit either in bulk or shape of the package ? Mr. Lewis. No; I suggest no limit. I do not see why a limit should be suggested by the statute. That field, it seems to me, ought to be left to the department's knowledge and regulation. I have a great deal of respect for the opinion of a Congressman as to general principles, but I have little respect for the opinion of a Congressman or anytiody else who has not carefully studied specific facts as to railroad rates, when it comes to the regulations that might be necessary to carry this subject out. I mean specified rates or specified regulations. Mr. Weeks. Are you in favor of extending that principle to the railroads and condemning the railroads and taking them over ? Mr. Lewis. I do not think that question is pertinent to this discussion. Mr. Weeks. I am trying to get a suggestion Mr. Lewis. You are trying to ascertain a personal disposition. Mr. Weeks. I beg your pardon. Mr. Lewis. I beg yours. Mr. Weeks. I do not msh to have you assume that. I do assume that this subject is going to be comprehensively considered by this committee. Mr. Lewis. Well, I hope so. Mr. Weeks. That is an assumption on my part, perhaps, but I assume that that is the case, and if it is going to be comprehensively considered, we ought to ask questions which will apply legitimately to it. Mr. Lewis. Yes. Mr. Weeks. I do not personally wish to impose on a witness, and never have. Mr. Lewis. Oh, you are not imposing. Mr. Weeks. But I do feel that I am justified in asking a question which will indicate the idea of the witness of what information we should have applied, and therefore I want to find as a result of your investigation what you think is proper a dividing line between what shall be the work of the postal department and the work of the rail- road — if you are not in favor of taking over the railroad. Mr. Lewis. I will answer that question ia the spirit the gentleman has presented it. Mr. Weeks. I wish you would assume the spirit is purely one of inquiry, and not with any other motive in mind whatever. Mr. Lewis. I am very glad indeed to do so, and I thank the gentle- man for his spirit. With regard to the limit of weight, I have given it some thought. The result of that thought was this : The Government should not take the express function over without performing it wholly, or pro- viding some other agency to perform it. The railways could per- form it in exceptional cases through the baggage end of the car. They do perform it now in a measure with regard to newspapers and some other things. 42 PAECELS POST. The practical point of excess weight which the gentleman doubt- less has in miad— that is to say, an express shipment that might weigh a ton -the practical difficulty would not be presented while it was on the rails, because with regard to the express car it would accommodate it in the future as well as it has m the past, liut the practical difficulty could only arise when it got off the rails and the Government met the duty of dehvering it, or coUectmg it. Now, with respect to that situation, I should leave that wholly to the Postmaster General to cover by regulations which after a full investigation of the subject he might pass in the premises. Mr. Gardner. Did I not understand you a bit ago m speakmg of the rural delivery of the parcels post to allude to a motor vehicle ? Mr. Lewis. As one of the probabilities, I might say. Mr. Gardner. Is that in your manuscript I Mr. Lewis. It is only suggested. I have not gone into chimerical thiugs. Mr. Gardner. Now, pardon me. It is not chimerical ia any sense. Parts of the country have good roads. But three-quarters of the country, perhaps, has not, and therefore the delivery of property in that manner involves the question of roads. I simply wanted to know if in your scheme you had contemplated federalizing the high- waj^s of the country. Mr. Lewis. Oh, no, sir. I have a very, very good objection to that. The objection to federalizing the roads of the country is that our method of indirectly collecting taxes makes the consumer and tax- Eayer pay at least two taxes instead of one ; whereas, when the States uUd the highways themselves, they build them under a system of direct taxation where they pay one tax. I have only assumed, with- out discussing it in the study, that a large wagon could go where a smaller vehicle now goes. In other words, that the system would be extended as far as the rural delivery now goes. Mr. Bell. Would you have any limitations for using the route of rural delivery as a route ? Mr. Lewis. The limitation would be made by the Postmaster General. When you come to the minutise of a transportation system, it would take 10 volumes to work out all the details. It should not be assumed because all details are not worked out that the main plan is essentially defective. I would rather have the judgment of a trained corps of men under the direction of the Postmaster General on a subject like that than the judgment of all the Congresses that ever existed. Mr. Weeks. Have you made an}^ estimate as to the probable addi- tional cost of tlie conduct of the rural delivery if this additional burden is placed on it ? Mr. Lewis. No. A' o specific estimate. I do not believe that for a year or two there would be any additional cost. Later on, the cost, with the increase of traffic — I mean the extra increase of traffic beyond that which their wagons now accommodate — would be met by the parcel rates protected under this system. Mr. Bell. Do you believe the mail on the rural deUvery route can be delivered as it is now under that system ? Mr. Lewis. I see no reason why it could not. Mr. Bell. Could it be delivered as quickly ? ]\rr. Lewis. I think so; with neghgible differences here and there. PAKCELS POST. 43 The Chairman. Do you mean to say you would have dehvered through the country by the rural carrier anything that may be carried by the Government express, because I take it that is what you would have, without reference to limit of weight. Mr. Lewis. With such exceptions, Mr. Lloyd, as the Postmaster General might find it necessary to make. The Chairman. You will find that a good many people have not the same idea of the Postmaster General's abihty to direct all these things as you seem to have. Mr. Lewis. When I speak of the Postmaster General I am speak- ing of the department. The Chairman. The Postmaster General is a man usually who knows very little about post-office affairs, and he is charged, in addition to his duties of regulating the Post Office Department, with performing la,rge official duties; and he himself is not prepared to perform tlie important duties that devolve upon him. I am not saying this with the idea of reflecting upon any Postmaster General whatever, and especially with reference to the present one. Mr. Lewis. Mr. Chairman, of course express employees and ex- press plants being taken over, you have all that trained talent to begin with. You have the plant in operation. The Chairman. Then your plan of remedy is a general one which would provide first that the express companies shall be taken over by the Government? Mr. Lewis. Yes. The Chairman. And second, that those express companies shall be Government express and that they shall carry everything that is now carried by express, as well as that which is now carried by mail ? Mr. Lewis. With such exceptions as may be determined upon by the Post Office Department. And there would be exceptions, of course. The Chairman. That is the general proposition ? Mr. Lewis. Yes. The Chairman. And you would have that express matter or mail matter or whatever you wish to call it, delivered through the rural carrier to the uttermost parts of the country ? Mr. Lewis. With such exceptions as might be determined, again, by the department; because if they were to send a sawmill by ex- press, as may sometime happen, the rural delivery agency would not be fitted to receive it. in cases like that the consignee would have to look after his own terminal transportation. The Chairman. What would you say to the feasibility of having the railroad companies take over the express companies rather than the Government taking them? Mr. Lewis. The trouble about that would be the complete want of an articulation of the rail system with the country, with the out- of town population. I said there were two facts which drove me to this conclusion: One, the three-quarters of a cent express transportation rate; the other, the existenec of the rural free-delivery system which would articulate our whole railway transportation function with about half of the population not now within reach. The Chairman. Don't you think the railroad companies can be their own express companies ? In other words, the railroad com- 44 PARCELS POST. panies could do their own express business much cheaper than they could now. 1 . 1 ^1 -1 J Mr. Lewis. I think they could, but I do not think the railroad companies would have that kind of a pubhc service motive wJiich would lead them to reduce the rate to the mere pomt of economic self-sustenance. Moreover the raih-oads can not get nd of the con- tracts until they severally expire and could not establish through systems. Mr. Mayes. Do you not think your plan would amount to owner- ship of railroads eventually? Mr. Lewis. I do not care to enter into that speculation. Mr. Mates. You seem to carry aU the freight, so why not the passengers? . Mr. Lewis. I do not propose to carry all the freight. The limit£t- tions amount to this : The freight of the country amounts to 900,- 000,000 tons, and the express of the country amounts to about four and a half million tons; so the gentleman's inference is inaccurate. Mr. Mayes. You have not stated what the Umit should be about the matter that the mail would carry at aU ; you have not put any hmit on it. Mr. Lewis. You mean the particular load or consignment? Mr. Mayes. Yes. Mr. Lewis. The express rates put that Hmit, sir. There would be a ratio in the express charge of about 10 to 1, even under a postal express system ^f express charges, to the freight charge. Those rates determine the amount of traffic that would go by express. The Chairman. Would you have the express charge under the Government system controlled by the Interstate Commerce Com- mission ? 'Mx. Lewis. Wholly, sir. The bUl provides for that. That is, aijpeals are given to the Interstate Commerce Commission and to the Commerce Court. The Postmaster General is only th e initiatory party. I mean the postal department is only an initiatory rate maker from which appeals are allowed on all questions of rates to the Interstate Commerce Commission and to the Commerce Court. The Chairman. What assurance can you give the committee that with your system inaugurated it would result in carrying the package cheaper than it is now carried ? Mr. Lewis. The assurance is set forth in the study. I would only weary you if I proceeded to read the figures. The Chairman. It is all set out? Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; clearly. Mr. Weeks. Does that include local express companies ? Mr. Lewis. No. Mr. Weeks. I mean express companies that deliver in suburban localities from large centers. Mr. Lewis. It includes only those express companies that articu- late with the railways. Mr. Weeks. Are you contemplating taking over these local ex- press companies ? Mr. Lewis. No, sir. I think they perform their functions under conditions of competition and that on the whole, the pubhc gets from them a normal rate. PAKOELS POST. 45 Mr. Weeks. How far from a distributing point would you con- sider the legitimate line for a local express company to operate ? Mr. Lewis. I have not gone into that feature. Mr. Weeks. It would be simply a question of whether it operated over a railroad? Mr. Lewis. It would be excluded from the railroad — I mean as to the postal express matter. The Chairman. Would you have the mail and express in the cities without reference to weights, delivered by the Government ? Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; under regulations to be made by the de- partment. The Chaieman. You would not make any hmit on that, because the Government could prepare itself to deliver an engine or to deUver anything else that is not deUvered by an express company as readily as the express company could. Mr. Lewis. I suppose it could, and therefore I wonder at the objection. The Chaieman. You do not understand. Questions are not ob- jections. The questions are intended to draw out information. I suppose everybody around this table understands that a question while apparently antagonistic is not intended to be antagonistic at aU. The purpose of the questions around this table is to get infor- mation. Of course in asking a question, apparently you antagonize a witness; but it is not intended to antagonize at all. It is intended to draw out information. What this committee wants chiefly is information, and anybody that comes before it that has information — there is not a man around the table but who is anxious to ask ques- tions if he sees something he wants to know about, and he does not intend to be offensive or to be obstructive or in opposition in any way at all. We are supposed to be sitting around this table for the purpose of ehciting the truth with reference to things, and we are not supposed to be prejudged in advance with reference to any particular phase of this or any other matter. Mr. Lewis. I surely am not judging you, and if I seem to do so, I beg to assure you that such is not the case. The Chairman. I did not think you did; but I say this generally, because there are others to follow you. Mr. Lewis. Under the circumstances of earnestness of extempo- raneous address both members of the committee and probably myself have seemed to show a motive that perhaps did not exist. Mr. Gbegg. I presume the notes jou have there show the receipts and expenditures of the Post Office Department ? Mr. Lewis. They show them with reference to the transportation rate and they show the average charges for carrying different kinds of mail — ^yes, sir. Mr. Geegg. Now, do you similarly show the receipts and expendi- tures of the various express companies ? Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; in the aggregate. Mr. Gregg. Now, then, from both of those have >ou made any estimate of the receipts and expenditures if the Government should take these express companies over in accordance with your plan ? Mr. Lewis. You will find that I have gone into that subject. And I challenge the committee to take any rate that has been made in 46 PAECELS POST. the tentative postal express tables, multiply that rate by the traffic the express companies had during the year 1909, and see if it mil not produce more than the revenue necessary to run the consolidated plant under the proposed auspices. Mr. Gregg. You have recapitulated it ? Mr. Lewis. Yes. Mr. Weeks. As to the comparative rates which the express com- panies pay the railways and the probable rates which the Grovern- ment woulfl pay for the same service Mr. Lewis, the object of acquiring that contract is to get that rate. That amounts on the average to 0.74 of a cent a pound. Mr. Weeks. When the contract which the express companies now have with the railroads expires, you would assume they would be renewed on the same terms 1 Mr. Lewis. Then the Post Office Department would make new agreements with the railroads. If they disagreed, the question would go to the Interstate Commerce Commission first, and finally to the Commerce Court for adjustment. Mr. Weeks. Have you made any investigation of those cases which have been brought to the Interstate Commerce Commission for ex- cessive charges by express companies ? Mr. Lewis. No; I have not had the time to go into that line. Mr. Weeks. There are such cases, I presume. Mr. Lewis. There are. Air. Weeks. Any citizen, as I understand it, is justified if he ob- jects to a rate now being charged, in taking it to the Interstate Commerce Commission and getting a rate fixed by the commission, is he not? Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. May I suggest there are not less than one hundred bUhon express rates, and that is one of the advantageous J)oints of this system. Express tariffs now fill eight shelves 120 feet ong; and one rate in those eight shelves is the right rate. All the other rates are wrong rates in the particular instance. The point of this postal express proposition is that you can put for the whole United States the merchandise rates for all conceivable weights or distances on a single page of paper. Mr. Weeks. Is that the experience in framing freight rates? Mr. Lewis. There are said to be 800,000,000,000 freight rates. Mr. Weeks. Freight rates are extremely complicated, and I have not noticed that the Interstate Commerce Commission criticizes the fact that there are a vast number of rates applying to traffic. Mr. Lewis. There is a great deal of criticism sir, of the complexity, the hopeless complexity of the American freight rate situation, be- cause it is said it often leads to unintentional discrimination, and often permits of intentional discrimination; but I do not wish to wander away from the specified subject before us. Mr. SuT^ZEE. You have all of these statements in your prepared study there before you ? Mr. Lewis. I have the subjects discussed as fully as my talents and knowledge could cover them. Mr. SuLZER. Of course you are aware that many gentlemen have come a long distance to appear before the committee to-day. Mr. Lewis. I am not responsible for consuming more than a half hour's time. I had stopped out of respect for the situation. PAKCELS POST. 47 Mr. SxjLZER. Well, have you concluded ? Mr. Lewis. If the gentlemen of the committee have concluded. Mr. Weeks (to Mr. Sulzer). The subcommittee will determine that. The Chairman. Have you anything further, Mr. Gardner ? Mr. Gardner. There are just two things I would like to ask: First, as to the rural route as a part of this system. There are about 20,000,000 people, I take it, reached by the rural routes, and more than 60,000,000 or 70,000,000 that are not. Does your scheme contemplate such an extension of the rural delivery that it reaches every man's door, and that those who have not rural routes shall not receive the delivery otherwise than at the post office; and does it contemplate that the star-route carriers shall carry these goods for the 60,000,000 of people who have not now rural' delivery ? Which of the three propositions have you in mind — that these people shall not be served; that they shall be served by the rural delivery; or that they shall be served at their post office by the star- route carrier ? Mr. Lewis. That portion of the subject is also left to the postal department. There is a line of economic nonfeasibility with regard to the collecting and delivering service Mr. Gardner. You leave that absolutely, without having speci- fied a schenae of your own ? Mr. Lewis. Well, I have not evolved any special scheme with regard to that condition. The Postmaster General and the depart- ment now determine the instances, and how far the rural delivery shall go for the purpose of letters in specified cases, and they will determine it in the future. Mr. Gardner. One thing further. You have repeatedly stated that the average express cost is 0.74 of a cent a pound, and that the railroads get 48 per cent. Mr. Lewis. No. I said the whole express charge amounts to 1.56 — about a cent and a half a pound — of which the railroads secure 47^ per cent for their contribution to the work. Mr. Gardner. Well, that rate is surprisingly low, as stated, the cost being 1^ cents a pound on an average shipment. Mr. Lewis. To the pubhc it is L56 a pound, and out of that the railways secure three-fourths of a cent. Mr. Gardner. That would bring an 1 1-pound package, for instance, to about 17 cents, as I figure it. Mr. Lewis. Yes. Mr. Gardner. Now, is that really the express cost ? Mr. Lewis. Let me turn to that. Mr. Gardner. And if so, how is it averaged down ? Mr. Lewis. I answer now, without any purpose of a sting in my remarks, that the express companies make rates as people make taxes, only to secure the desired revenue. They do not make rates apparently with particular regard to the specific cost of service. I notice here their average 10-pound rate for 36 miles is 32 cents; for 60 miles 39 cents, and for 100 miles 42 cents. And it runs to $1.65 for 3,600 miles. This is an average table of express-company charges based on data provided by the Interstate Commerce Commission. Mr. Gardner. On what kind of goods ? Mr. Lewis. Merchandise rates. 48 PABCELS POST. Mr. Gardner. Is not the merchandise classified? For instance, you could not ship a silk hat at 1.5 cents a pound, I take it j Mr. Lewis. Oh, no; of course. The truth is the bill does not provide a specific system of rates. That would have to be worked out in detail, and in its general character, by departmental knowl- edge. This Congress would not attempt to make place-to-place rates for the railways, or freight rates, I am sure. I do not thmk they would be any more competent to do it for the express traffic; and for that matter, gentlemen, I do not think it is any more competent to do it for a parcels-post traffic. When you come to a question of specific rates that involves a condition that may frequently change, we ought to have somewhere an expert departmental power over that subject to protect the finances of the Government from loss in one direction and to give the pubhc the fullest possible service in the other. Mr. Gardner. And that reason appHes with equal force to all matters ? Mr. Lewis. To all classes of parcels posts; but I am not sure I would apply it to letters. Mr. Gardner. Why stop with the parcels post ? Why not apply it to aU classes of mail matter ? Mr. Lewis. I have no extemporaneous reason to urge why it should not be. The Chairman. Does any other member of the subcommittee de- sire to ask anything ? (No response.) Mr. Lewis. Gentlemen, I thank you. The Chairman. Does any other member of the Post Oifice Com- mittee who is not a member of the subcommittee want to ask any questions. If so, you are at Hberty to do so. Mr. Lewis. Now, may I file the study, which contains an appen- dix by way of verification of the points? The Chairman. Yes. Mr. Lewis. And ask that only my extemporaneous remarks in connection with questions and answers may be printed ? The Chairman. Yes. (The appendices referred to in connection with the remarks of Mr. Lewis are as follows:) APPENDICES. Appendix A. — The bill and law notes. Appendix B. — Data of express and freight traffic in different countries. Appendix C. — Capital balance sheet of American express companies. Appendix D. — Cost per pound of postal railway mail. Appendix E. — Ten examples of actual express rates from 5 to 100 pounds, for dis- tances of 36 to 3,600 miles. Appendix F. — ^Analysis of operating expenses of express companies and predicated savings. Appendix G. — Summary of express-railway contracts. Appendix H. — Poimd and parcels express company data. Appendix I. — Monthly payment revenue and expenses. Appendix J. — Mileage covered by express companies. Appendix K. — Cost of real property and equipment. Appendix L. — Inventory value of equipment. Appendix M. — Operating income and expenditures. Appendix N. — Operating revenue. Appendix O. — American postal efficiency. PARCELS POST. 49 Appendix P. — British, French, and German postal efficiency. Appendix Q. — Letter British postmaster general on relative number of postal, telephone, and telegraph employees. Appendix R. — Service cost of American mail. Appendix S. — Examples of postal express. Appendix T. — Comparative express and freight traffic per capita in different countries. Appendix U. — The parcels-post system of Germany. Appendix V. — The parcels-post system in other countries. Appendix W. — An agricultural parcels post, by J. Henniker Heaton, M. P. Appendix X. — Express rates in Great Britain. Appendix Y. — Letter of Postmaster General: Number served by rural free delivery and by urban delivery. Appendix Z. — The sociological view. Appendix AA. — Summary of parcels-post bills. Appendix A. A bill providing for the condemnation and purchase of the franchises, etc., of the express companies of the United States and the establishment of postal express. CONDEMNATION OP EXPRESS COMPANY PHANCHISES. Be it enacted, etc. , That in order to promote the postal service and more efficiently regulate commerce between the several States, the Territories of the United States, the District of Columbia, the possessions of the United States, and foreign na- tions, the contracts and agreements (note 1) and arrangements of the several express companies with the several railroad companies of the United States, its Territories, and the District of Columbia relating to the carriage and transporta- tion (and storage and care) by such railroad company of parcels, packets, and pack- ages, and other express matter, as well as the franchises, operating equipment, cars, vehicles, horses, buildings, leases, as lessees, of buildings used in the conduct of the express business, and all other property or rights and privileges owned and used by such express companies as necessary and appropriate to such dispatch, receipt, collec- tion, delivery, or transportation of such parcels, packets, packages, and express matter are hereby declared to be, and the same are hereby, condemned and appropriated (note 2) to and for the use of the United States of America, to be used by it for such public purposes as may be proper in its various functions. That the words "express company" as used in this act shall be construed to include any corporation, indi- vidual, partnership, association, or joint-stock association (as far as) engaged in the dispatch of parcels, packets, packages, and other express matter by railway, express, or steamship, including the receipt, collection, or delivery of the same. And the words "railroad company" shall be construed to include any transportation agency as far as used as a post route or in carrying express matter (note 3). On and after July 1, 1912, any railroad, steamship, or other transportation agency having a contract wifii any express company subject to this act shall transport and carry for the Post Office Department all matter transportable under said contract and shall execute and perform with respect to such Post Office Department all such duties as have been customary under such contract in relation to the express company or companies named therein, and shall permit its agents and employees to continue to discharge such services in respect thereto and upon like terms without interference on its part. And as to all matter transportable under such contract the Post Office Department shall have a monopoly of the express transportation therefor. DUTY OF PEESIDENT AND POWERS OP POSTMASTER GENERAL. Sec. 2. It shall be the duty of the President, on the 1st day of July, 1912, to take chaige and possession of all the property of such express companies condemned and appropriated in section 1 of this act, in the name of and by the authority of the United States of America (note 4), and thereupon it shall be the duty of the Postmaster General to employ said property and facilities as hitherto employed, in conjunction with the postal service, and to henceforth conduct said express service; and he shaU have power — (a) To devise classifications of parcels, packets, packages, and other shipments of postal express matter, and to regulate the forms and conditions for the shipment thereof. 3110—11 4 50 PAECELS POST. (6) To fix the postal charges for coUecting, receiving, transportmg, by railroad or otherwise, and delivering of matter under paragraph a, and such charges may be entire for the whole service performed. , . • j. i,„ j„ j (c) And he shall base such postal charges upon the amount of service to be rendered, considering distance transported and other service elements and risk myolved therem, with a purpose of making the charges wholly adequate to paying the cost ot the service, including interest charges. ... a. c -u (d) To make all regulations which may be necessary for msurmg payment of charges and the safe, expeditious, economical, and profitable administration ot such postal express service. , , , . , (e) To make regulations defining the rights and duties of the employees m such service; and he shall retain, so far as necessary, those formerly employed by the. express companies, who shall not be required to pass civil-service examination. (f) To determine by regulation the wages payable to such employees, the sick leave or vacation periods, and the necessary qualifications of employees for service and promotion. . ,. ., (g) To provide for a system of insurance of employees against accident, to be paid for by the department. (h) To declare by rules under what circimistances, and to what extent, postal express matter may be insured against loss, and provide rates for the special insurance thereof, and rules for the indemnification of shippers. (i) To make agreements with carrying railroads or other agencies of transportation, for the carriage or extension of service, of such postal express rnatter, subject to the appeal hereinafter provided, to the Interstate Commerce Commission. (j) To establish, from time to time, and in such places as he may by rule determine, rural collection and delivery, and urban collection and delivery, for such parcels, packets, packages, and postal matter and express matter as he may determine upon, and under such regulations as to rates and conditions of carriage thereof as he may deem prudent. (Jc) To provide as far as possible for the exemption of postal express employees from labor on the Sabbath. (I) To make all other regulations necessary for the efficient and economical opera- tion of the service, and to provide all means necessary for the safe and expeditious transportation and forwarding of money and credit to any amount, and to fix the rates therefor, and to make all regulations deemed essential thereto, and to provide means to discharge all other functions, which he may deem proper, hitherto discharged by express companies, and to make any regulations deemed essential in relation thereto. But from any action of the Postmaster General in declaring regulations under paragraphs (a), (5), (c), (d), (i), and (j) hereof, an appeal shall lie by any party com- petent under the act to regulate commerce to the Interstate Commerce Commission, which shall have power to revise and amend the said regulations. The Postmaster General shall also have power to rent, lease, or purchase real estate and personal property, supplies, cars, and equipment for use by his department in the operation of such postal express. He shall have power to condemn in the name of the United States any property, real, personal, or mixed, which he may deem necessary for the efficient operation of the service, but the said Interstate Commerce Commission shall first value and file its award therefor, as hereinbefore specified. COMPENSATION FOR RAILROAD TRANSPORTATION. Sec. 3. During the months of August and December, 1911, and April, 1912, the weights of matter carried over the respective railroads under contracts with the express companies (during the pendency thereof) shall be carefully taken for each railroad company in respect to such contract; and the amount of money paid for the carriage thereof shall be divided by the mileage of such railway over which such matter is •carried; and thereafter the Postmaster General shall, if the railroad company consent thereto, cause to be paid to such railroad company the amount per mile owing to such railroad under such contract as thus computed; and thereafter, annually, at such times as may be determined upon by the Postmaster General, such matter shall be weighed, and the railroad company shall be paid monthly for the excess weight carried by it, over the first weighing herein provided, such sums as may be agreed upon for such excess weights; but if said Postmaster General and such railroad com- pany shall fail to agree upon a different basis of compensation for such excess weights, then the same shall be paid for according to the terms and provisons of the contract condemned in such case. PARCELS POST. 51 RENEWAL OP TEANSPOETATION CONTRACTS. Sec. 4. At the expiration of any contract between an express company and a rail- road, condemned by this act (or at any time before, if such railroad company shall consent thereto), the Postmaster General may contract with such railroad company for the transportation of postal express matter; and, if deemed advantageous, upon cars provided by the department, which may be transferred without unloading onto the lines of other railroad companies, and at such rate of compensation and upon such principles of computation thereof, by car or car space mileage, or otherwise, as may be agreed upon. But an appeal shall lie, for the purpose of review, to the Interstate Commerce Commission by any party competent under the act to regulate commerce from such contract, whereupon the Interstate Commerce Commission shall have the power to revise and amend and define and declare the terms and conditions of said contract. And in case the Postmaster General and such railroad company, after the expiration of the contract with an express company, shall fail to agree upon the terms and provisions of the renewal thereof, they shall submit their respective contentions and propositions with reference thereto to the said Interstate Commerce Commission, which shall thereupon have plenary power to declare the terms and provisions which said contract shall contain. And from any determination with respect to any con- tract the terms and provisions of which have been declared by the said Interstate Commerce Commission under this section, an appeal shall lie to the Court of Com- merce, which shall enjoy like power to revise and amend the same. APPKAISEMENT OF EXPRESS COMPANY PRANCHISBS, ETC. Sec. 5. Immediately after the passage of this act it shall be the duty of the Interstate Commerce Commission to appraise (note 5) at their true market values the contracts, agreements, franchises, equipment, buildings, and other property of whatsoever kind, condemned and appropriated by the United States in section 1 of this act, and award to the respective express companies just compensation therefor. Each commissioner shall take oath to justly perform such duty before some judge of the courts of the United States. The said Interstate Commerce Commission shall have power and it shall be its duty to summon witnesses, with books and papers, before it for either of the parties and require such witnesses to testify, and it shall give to each party a full hearing with reference to the amount of compensation which shall be awarded to each express company under this act; and it shall be the duty of such commission, on or before the 7th day of May, 1912, to file a separate award of appraisement, giving just compensation to each express company for its property condemned under this act, and give notice of the filing of such award to the Postmaster General and to such express company. And if either party shall be dissatisfied with the amount of said award, the same may, on appeal by either party, be reviewed and revised by the Court of Commerce, sitting as a court of review, with respect thereto; and from its determination a further appeal may lie on behalf of either of the parties to the Supreme Court of the United States, to determine the amount of the just compensation to which said express company shall be entitled. PROVISIONS POR COMPENSATION OF EXPRESS COMPANIES. Sec. 6. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and directed to make pajrment to such express companies of the money adjudged to be due them as aforesaid out of the Treasury of the United States, and said express companies shall be entitled to payment of such final award as compensation from the Treasury of the United States, and the amounts of said award are hereby appropriated to the parties entitled thereto out of the Treasury of the United States. Any party interested in the distri- bution of such compensation money may petition the circuit court of the United States having jurisdiction of the subject matter, which court shall thereupon distribute the compensation directly by proper adults to the several stockholders, bondholders, partners, or individuals entitled thereto; and in such cases the Treasurer of the United States shall pay out such compensation as such court may direct; and the parties to whom the same may be paid shall assign their rights unto the United States with reference thereto, whereupon the United States shall enjoy the same rights and the same power under the same as the assignor enjoyed prior to such condemnation. ISSUE OF BONDS AND REDEMPTION OP THE SAME. Sec, 7. The Secretary of the Treasurjr shall cause to be issued in proper form the bonds of the United States of America in a sum equal to the aggregate valuation of 52 PAECELS POST. sucli express companies, as determined by the awards hereinbefore provided for. Said bonds shall be payable within 40 years from the date of issue and bear interest at the rate of — per cent, and such Treasurer shall maintain a fund for the payment of such interest and the redemption of the bonds issued under this act; and for such purpose the Postmaster General shall pay out of the receipts of his department, under the Secretary of the Treasury, a sum equal to such interest and a redemption sum equal to 1 per cent of the aggregate awards to such express companies each year, which sum shall be payable quarterly. The said fund shall be invested from time to time in such securities as the Secretary of the Treasury may deem secure and profitable. The sum of $250,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, is hereby appropriated out of the Treasury of the United States to the Postmaster General and the Departr ment of Justice, to be used, so far as necessary, upon their order, in defraying the expense incident to acquiring such property. Note 1, section 1: "Contracts are property, and as such may be condemned and taken under the law of eminent domain." (10 Am. and Eng. Ency., p. 1089; Dodge V. Woolsey, 18 Howard (U. S.), 379; Nichols on Eminent Domain, sec. 315. )_ Note 2, section 1: The United States possesses the power of eminent domain, which it may exercise to promote any of its constitutional powers. (10 Am. and Eng. Ency., p. 1051; Kohl V. U. S., 91 U. S., 367; 15 Cyc, p. 564-565.) The United States may condemn interstate railways. (Nichols on Eminent Domain, sec. 23; Wilson v. Shaw, 204 U. S., 24; Monongahela case, 148 U. S., 341-342.) Note 3, section 1: This power of condemnation may be exercised directly by the legislative branch. The ohly limitation is that just compensation shall be provided for.^ (10 Am. and Eng. Ency., p. 1068; Secombe v. Milwaukee, 23, Wall., 108.) Note 4, section 2: In those cases where the condemnor is the sovereign the compen- sation need not be tendered or ascertained in advance of the taking, ft is only neces- sary that adequate provision be made for compensation. (10 Am. and Eng. Ency., p. 1142, note 2; Nichols on Eminent Domain, sec. 263; Sweet v. Eechel, 159 U. S., 380; Williams y. Parker, 188 U. S., 491.) Note 5, section 5: The owner of property condemned by the United States is not entitled to a jury, but commissioners may determine the amount of compensation, etc. (Nichols on Eminent Domain, sees. 302, 306; U. S. v. Jones, 109 U. S., 513, 569; 169 U. S., 567; 11 Peters, 420, 571; 148 U. S., 312, 327.) PARCELS POST. 53 « e 03 Ci 0*3 «■ M ^ Q t- 2 g s a ^ ■g ^ s o f:^ % E^ ^ n o ® E 03* OOOOOPQOOOO ooOr-ieoooeocOi-iQO OO'^OIXDOlOOOMO QOMCOmOlNMOOQONOO ft(OOaOCOO(NOcgU3 0--H -( i-H>0 MO cDco-^ujcorocccqi-c^T- Mi-HiOMOOQOeOMffOO"!*' W<»M 00904 t-MeOO oiooo^cnoooOQOooffiooo) ooooooooooo 54 PABOEIS POST, Appendix C. General balance-sheet statement as of June 30, 1909. [Annual report express companies.] Eipenditures for real property *14, 932, 169. 94 Expenditures for equipment • '' oii'Qon?^ Stocks owned ^^'q^Hvo'S Funded debt owned oM^e'^If-n Other permanent investments qq' cao ens' m Cash and current assets ^^^j ^^f ^"°- °° Materials and supplies |^°' ^^Ij"- '° Sinking, insurance, and other funds ^^°> *»!■ ™ Advance payments on contracts , -5, odb, 666. 67 Franchises, good will, etc 10, 877, 369. 74 Other assets 846, 090. 33 Profit and loss 91. 129. 58 Total assets 186,221,380.54 Liabilities: Capital stock 53,350,700.00 Funded debt 36,000,000.00 Current liabilities 24,980,828.23 Other liabilities 21,273,493.78 Profit and loss 50,616,358.53 Total liabilities 186, 221,380. 54 Appendix D. postal railway mall pay per pound. There is a most exhaustive Government report on postal operations, published in 1910, called Cost of Transporting and Handling the Several Classes of Mail Matter, etc. Page 8 gives the weight of freight and domestic maU, excluding local, as 1,204,080,927 pounds, and pages 7 and 10 give the items of §44,267,507.13 and $4,638,971.51, re- ' spectively, as the amounts of compensation paid for railroad service and railroad post- office car service, or a total of $48,906,478.64. Dividing this sum by the number of pounds of mail we have 4.06, or practically 4 cents a pound. The above weight excludes the equipment, and so the weights given for the express companies also excludes the equipment, such as steel safes, etc. On substantially all the main lines of postal traffic the minimum scale of railway pay has been reached, so that the postal traffic as at present would not materially reduce the rate per pound. On page 8 of the report the average haul of third and fourth class mail is given as 672 and 687 nules, respectively, making an average of 679.5 miles. The assumed haul of express is 196 miles, although it is likely about 300, and the pay to the railways 0.74 of a cent a pound. On the principle of the rate declension for lengthening hauls, elsewhere discussed,- as the square root of 196 is 14 and of 679. 5 is 26.06, parcels traveling 196 mUes on present postal railway pay would cost 2.18 cents a pound, or nearly three times as much as (0.74) the express companies pay, while if the expres haul is 300 miles, as believed, the cost would be 2.70 cents per pound, orjust three and one-half times as much as the express companies pay the railways for their kind of service. The average charge per pound of the express companies is one and a half (1.56) cents per pound for the average haul of their matter; and since under the various parcels-post schemes the Government would have to pay the railways from 30 per cent to 90 per cent more than the whole express rate to the shipper for that part of the expense alone, it is obvious that it would, under such schemes, have to charge the public rates about twice as high as the express rates now complained of. PARCELS POST. 55 : o>coooo ■; »o r^ lo o o »o 3 lOOOlOU ■3 t^ lO O I- t- I Si, ?oooo«oioooo>oo«io»occirao»o»o H^3CqcOM'*'*0ON HMNNCOW^IOOSM ^3 ro CO ■* I> O VOOOOOOXOQQQOQGOiOlOPQlOOmiO t— r*i>cf>a5 0cqT Hi-Hcgc^cocococ H(Ni-li-(INC I o SI. ^.-H.-(r^.-(THT-HWNWe^eOW500 H frl CI w m 5D 00 s e -tNC*)«»0«D rT a j'tor-tooooioooO'-iwr-oooiNr-fsD -fe a encoco- :a^ to o>' 3ri- OOoa 56 PAECELS POST. O ^ ,-1 i-H T-l fH M M r-( CO O) 03 »0 ■^ T HW>-ii-!<-HrHrH.-lC4C4C4':IC4 •^•^■rHi-(i-HM(NC0CC-*^«».'3>OOt>-»Hei ;gSSSSSgggg§gg§SSS8SS gSgSSggggSSgSSgggSSS 8 r-lT-l>Ht-HiHT-liH<-ICqC4C^"*^o^-oo .4^^r-l^f-Hr--oooociooow -( (N W CO -^ i-O -"—iT-tT— ^^i^c^ctOictmsQm*OfO -C^iOOOOt^OOl'- ^rH ,_( ,-H ,-. r-l r-C rH (M M eO ■«' HtMM«CO'*^ piOt^cOOOt-OOC-lWVT H_^,-i^^^^(MCHCi|CO 00>0i0^0i00000>00000i0000 U3Ot0tCOOO>0U3OOOOOOO>ma0>a y s frOCDOeOOiQ.-l^OSOp;;:oO— i01:^S5iOC iSM COOO'ePO>»0'-lOJt30t-OiQOOCMu50'fl<(OC -H^^WMCO-^lirj»l£5tOt>.0)0.-iiM-^iO-^0 i-li— liHWCOM^ii3cDt~OJOi-teo^iaC O.S PABCELS POST. 57 i-ii-»NC^cocoM-!to6i-5 H.-(,-H^^MC<)CqcCMWNCOt*t^C0«-l -I ,_i ,_( c^Of^uito'x>c -o>nr^t^oooooooot-(N(NCSioioMiai-i -iMNMNmcOCOlO -I eq N CM « o ■* ^^^^rH.-l.-(r-ll- COCO'^'OSO'^DCOOi- io OS 58 PABCELS POST. - xo o ui lO lo lo o c o lo i-": ifl - ' * ,-H c^) >-; r-i ri ri ^^ ?o "C ^ '^ — :^ '— t- 1>- H^^ciM'^'*'-'5"3»o»O(0 .-I ci .-1 (N C-) c-i rc 13 Ci O0T3 0) O d f~ Cl § s cTV "o i o 8 >? i^ i C>iJS »1 J3 cT s »** fe .«-« <».?; <:> •^^ 1 ^'^ IS a, -sccecfc ^n-r r~ U30iC>iW*03»OCWi- p) (N CO cq eo eo c .-ii— ii— i.-(.-i.— id^iror^c -1 w CO CQ CO CO eo ■* !100000>30 .-HCqWtNNNWO -I ^ --< i-H .-I .-( -ic-ic4coo3comeo Soooooocoomo>a>ocQ>o i-Hi-l(NC>lC(MOC»t^r-00O'a«*0aS0QM CO«Oi'*oaiOM.-(0gt>t-WEu -s-S a - PARCELS POST. 59 I^QOCOOM -lC^Tt«eD»OlO-*CD»Cr-Q0 01'- rj i-t « TjH c>5 u tH .-I tH »-« i-( tP lO ^ "* CO »0 '* so I> CO O 00 i- lO^cDOOO^ I— i-i.-Hi-ii-Hco-*-^-^co-*Tt(ccnot^ffir-r;— 'r- ■4i-5i-4.-HCQTtJcoeow-^p3iouaot^toci6oo '^iOiQ^r^ -(M«C*3SOWO3CC-^i*'lQCOlOI^00Ol OM WMO 03^T}4U3 ear- 1- o i-Hi-iNWNNC^et-t--QO«« i-iNe*Moi -tOi-HC3-^ ITHD O 00 -^ OS O t»- C ^^WVCua r-H rH 1-1 .-H « O rHiHi-li-IN 60 PABCEIiS POST. Appendix F. Analysis of operating expenses of express companies for the year ending June 30, 1909, with predicated savings under postal express. [Interstate Commerce Eeport, 1911.] Accounts. Total operating expenses Maintenance; 1. Superintendence 2. Buildings, fixtures, and grounds.. 3. Office equipment 4. Cars — Repairs 5. Cars— Renewals 6. Cars— Depreciation 7. Horses 8. Vehicles — Repairs 9. Vehicles — Renewals 10. Stable equipment 11 . Transporation equipment 12. Other expenses. 13. Maintaining joint facilities — Dr.. 14. Maintaining joint facilities — Cr. . . Total.. Traffic expenses: 15. Superintendence 16. Outside agencies 17. Advertising 18. Traffic associations 19. Stationery and printing. 20. Other expenses Total.. Transportation expenses: 21. Superintendence , 22. Office employees , 23. Commissions 24. Wagon employees 25. Office supplies and expenses. . . 26. Rent of local offices 27. Stable employees 28. Stable supplies and expenses. 29. Train employees 30. Train supplies and expenses.. 31. Transfer employees 32. Transfer expenses 33 . Stationery and printing 34. Loss and damage, freight 35. Loss and damage, money 36. Damage to property 37. Injuries to persons 38. Other expenses 39. Operating joint facilities — Dr. 40. Operating joint facilities — Cr.. Total- General expenses: 41. Salaries and expenses of general officers 42. Salaries and expenses of clerks and attendants.. 43. General office supplies and expenses 44. Law expenses 45. Insurance 46. Pensions 47. Stationery and printing 48. Other expenses 49. General administration joint facilities — Dr 50. General administration joint facilities — Cr Total.. Total operating expense and savings. Add profits Add taxes Less interest on bonds Net savings and profits.. Operating totals. 856,273,055.29 62, 125, 281 2o: 008.29 994.14 869.14 232.47 16, 525, 682, 149, 198, 150, 2, 39, 55, 040.00 121.27 038.82 923.08 710. 13 277.19 909.49 566.42 029.06 2, 199, 661. 38 320,927.68 177, 101. 45 20, 517. 65 41,92419 96,642.48 562. 79 657,676.14 331, 674, 621, 656, 418, 181, 078, 649, 666, 134, 132, 119, 157, 321 51, 11, 107, 11, 285, ,136, 191.44 264.80 952.63 475. 69 490. 74 623. 08 689.34 615.32 864.70 149.26 781.46 066. 15 699.54 258.05 297.88 077.90 041.01 241.20 593.32 142.33 49,273,031.18 860,029.70 2,417,486.16 169,098.01 240,739.62 148,963.02 123,610.37 105,834.52 76,747.20 6,695.75 6,607.76 4,142,696.59 66,273,055.29 Predicated savings. (') $40,OOO.OU 100,000.00 181,000.00 350,000.00 454,000.00 100,000.00 132,000.00 100,000.00 1,457,000.00 320,927.68 177,101.45 16,000.00 41,92419 662,695.80 1,165,090.00 4,627,088.00 3,307,317.00 1,389,119.00 709,245.00 1,090,761.00 539,344.00 2,324,80400 2,332,932.00 213,278.00 11,906.00 385,866.00 17,996,750.00 573, 1,812, 126 120 70 352.00 363.00 ,747.00 369.00 ,000.00 79,302.00 2,782,133.00 22,988,477.00 11,387,489.00 906,619.00 35,282,485.00 1,000,000.00 34,282,485.00 1 The report by the Interstate Commerce Commission does not include this column. PARCELS POST. 61 Appendix G. operating contracts and practices. [Report Interstate Commerce Commission.] The contract between an express company and a railway company usually pro- vides that the express company shall have the exclusive right to operate upon lines named in the contract for a definite term of years; that all matter carried upon passen- ger trains except personal baggage, corpses, milk cans, dogs, and certain other com- modities shall be turned over by the railway company to the express company (the contract in one case going so far as to state that all packages or freight carried upon any train at passenger-train speed are to be considered express matter and turned over by the railway company to the express company); that the railway company shall transport to and from all points on its lines all express matter in charge oi the express company; that special or. exclusive express trains shall be provided by the railway company when warranted by the volume of express traffic; that the railway company shall furnish the necessary cars, keep them in good repair, furnish heat and light, and carry the messengers of the express company; as well as the safes, packing trunks, and all necessary equipment; and that horses, wagons, and supplies required by the express company may either be transported in express cars or be shipped by freight. The contract further provides that the officers and employees of the express com- pany, when traveling upon the business of the company, shall be carried free by the railway; that the railway company shall furnish such room in all its depots, stations, and buildings as may be necessary for the loading, unloading, transferring, and stor- age of express matter, provided the furnishing of such facilities shall not interfere with the business of the railway company; that the express company may employ during the pleasure of the railway company any of the agents of the latter as the agents of the express company, and may employ the train baggagemen as its messengers, pro- vided that such employment shall not interfere with the duties of the employees to the railway company, but the express company alone is liable for the misconduct of such agents in respect to its express business when so employed. The express com- pany, in respect to all matter carried free of charge for the railway company, is not liable for any loss or damage occasioned by accidents to trains, or by fraud or theft, or by casualties of any kind. The railway company further agrees to transmit free of charge the messages of the express company over telegraph lines which the railway company operates along its lines of road so far as it may be permitted to do so under its contracts with telegraph companies. The express company, on its part, agrees to pay a fixed per cent of its gross receipts from handling express matter (with the larger railway companies generally a mini- mum payment is guaranteed) ; to charge no rate at less than an agreed per cent of the freight rates on the same commodity (usually 150 per cent); to handle, free of charge, money; bonds, valuables, and ordinary express matter of the railway company; to indemnify the railway company for any damages sustained in consequence of the death of or injury to any employee of the express company; to assume sole responsi- bility for loss of or damage to the express matter in its custody other than the express matter of the railway company carried free of charge; and to pay to the railway com- pany an agreed proportion of the salaries or wages of such employees of the railway company as render services to the express company. The railway company has the right to examine the books, records, and accounts of the express company ao far as they relate to the business done under the contract, and may require reasonable safe- guards and checks for the purpose of securing correctness in accounting to it for the business done over its lines. Under some of the contracts the express company agrees not to operate over a com- peting line of road, and in one contract examined it was found that the railway com- pany required that the express company " shall not fix its rates for transportation and other services connected with the express business via the railroads of the railroad company at any less than the rates fixed by other express carriers between the same points, except that in case of disability or deficiency of routes via the railroads of the railroad company by reason of greater distance, longer time in transit, ' ' or other reasons to the prejudice of the routes via the lines of the railway company, the express com- pany has the right to make a sufficient reduction in the rate to retain a proper share of the competitive traffic. In small towns it is customary for the railway agent to act as the express agent also, being paid by the express company an agreed percentage of the revenue from business done. Generally speaking, the commission allowed such agents is 10 per cent on both inbound and outbound business and a commission of one-third the charges on money- order sales. The amounts paid by express companies are taken into consideration by the railway companies in fixing the salaries of station agents, and the salaries paid by the railway companies are adjusted accordingly. 62 PABCELS POST, On many roads- the express messengers act as train baggagemen, in which case their salaries are divided between the companies concerned on an agreed basis. The express company keeps the accounts between itself and the railway company and settles with the railway company on the basis of the amount shown in its accounts. The revenue earned on a given line of road when a shipment is carried over two or more lines is arrived at by the use of a mileage prorate or of a rate prorate. Where the rate prorate is used, the local rates per 100 pounds from point of origin to the junc- tion point and from the junction point to destination are ascertained, and either line's proportion of the revenue from a through shipment at a through rate is determined by dividing the revenue in the ratio of the local rates. The amount of revenue accruing on a given line having been determined by an express company, the amount due the railway company is computed by applying the percentage agreed upon in the contract. With some of the smaller railway com- panies, electric Imes, and steamboat lines there is still used the tonnage basis of con- tract — ^that is, an agreed rate per 100 pounds — but, generally speaking, the percentage basis is the one used. The interest of the public in the percentage contract lies in the fact that an increase in the compensation received by the express company carries with it a relative in- crease to the other party. Appendix H. Statistics of revenue tonnage for the months of April, August, and December, 1909. [Represents combined returns for tlie following express companies: Adams,i American, Canadian,Caiiadian Northern, Globe, Great Northern, Long Island, National, Northern, Pacifle,^ Southern, United States, Wells, Fargo & Co.,i and "Western.] [Eeport of Interstate Commerce Commission.] Items. April. August. December. Total or aver- age for three months. Pieces weighing 100 pounds or less: Number of pieces Aggregate weight pounds. Average weight per piece do . . . Revenue dollars. Average revenue per piece, .'cents. Average revenue per pound . .do. . '. Pieces weighing over 100 pounds: Number of pieces Aggregate weight pounds . Average weight per piece do. . . Revenue dollars. . Average revenue per piece, .cents- . Average revenue per pound. -do — Extraordinary shipments: Number of pieces Aggregate weight pounds. . Average weight per piece do Revenue dollars. - Average revenue per piece- .cents. . Average revenue per pound - -do Total, all shipments: Number of pieces Aggregate weight pounds. . Average weight per piece do Revenue dollars- . Average revenue per piece, .cents. - Average revenue per pound. -do Ratios of items to corresponding totals: Number of pieces weighmg 100 pounds or less percent-. Number of pieces weighmg over 100 pounds per cent. . Number of extraordinary ship- ments per cent. . Weight of pieces weighing 100 pounds or less percent.. Weight of pieces weighing over 100 pounds percent.. Weight of extraordinary ship- ments ; per cent. . Revenue on pieces weighing 100 pounds or less per cent. . Revenue on pieces weighing over 100 pounds per cent. . Revenue on extraordinary ship- ments per cent. - 20,951,305 512,288,348 24.46 9,481,154.44 45.25 1.85 981,663 158 778,538 161. 74 1,522,922.38 155. 14 14,625 14,147,711 967. 36 228,240.96 1,660.62 1.61 21,947,593 685,214,597 31.22 11,232,317.78 61.18 1.64 95.48 4.47 .07 74.76 23.17 2.07 84.41 13.56 2.03 21,242,169 640,699,767 30.16 8,406,166.64 39.67 1.31 1,182,768 187,169,775 158.25 1,606,251.89 135.80 10,719 13,886,691 1,295.62 193,616.11 1,806.28 1.39 22,435,656 841,766,233 37.62 10, 206, 022. .54 46.49 1.21 94.68 5.27 .05 76.11 22.24 1.65 82.36 15.74 1.90 25,276,014 572,203,615 22.64 12,119,436.84 47.95 2.12 1,342,220 217,864,869 162. 32 2,120,904.34 168. 01 .97 11,812 12,302,988 1,041.57 177,871.06 1,506.85 1.45 26,630,046 802,371,362 30.13 14,418,211.24 54.14 1.80 94.92 .5.04 .04 71.32 27.15 1.63 84.06 14.71 1.23 67,469,488 1,725,191,630 25.57 30,006,745.82 4447 1.74 3,506,651 663,813,172 160.78 6,250,078.61 149.72 37,156 40,337,390 1,085.62 599,727.13 1,61408 1.49 71,013,295 2,329,342,192 32.80 35,856,551.56 50.49 1.54 95.01 494 .05 7406 24.21 1.73 83.69 1464 1.67 1 April report excludes returned empty carriers. ' April report excludes a portion of returned empty carriers. PAECELS POST. 63 There is slight need for textual comment on the information presented in the above summary. Every item is significant for one who desires to gain an adequate concep- tion of the scope and character of the express business. Though the aggregates would vary for the several months and for the same month from year to year, the averages and percentages may be accepted as fairly portraying the traffic conditions under which express companies operate. It is significant to observe that 95.01 per cent of the num- ber of pieces handled, 74.06 per cent of the weight, and 83.69 per cent of the accriung revenue pertain to express matter of 100 pounds or less. It is further significant to learn that of this class of traffic the average weight per piece is 25.57 pounds, and the average revenue per pound is 1.74 cents. It is proposed to test the accuracy of these averages from time to time by the selection of other months than those named, although there is little likelihood that a compilation for all the months of the year would seriously affect the averages here disclosed, or that future tests will modify them in any marked degree. These averages may be used with reasonable confidence as long as express companies operate under present traffic, tariff, and contractual conditions. Appendix I. Statement showing results of operation combined for the months of April, August, and December, 1909, and an apportionment of operating costs between tonnage revenue and other revenue. MONTHLY REPORTS OF REVENUES AND EXPENSES. [Represents cotnbiaed returns for the following express companies: Adams, American, Globe, Great Northern, National, Northern, Paciflc, Southern, United States, Wells, Fargo & Co., and Westem.J [Interstate Commerce Commission.] Amount. Apportionment between — Tonnage revenue. Amount. Aver- age per piece (cents).i Aver- age per pound (cents).^ Other revenue. Total receipts from operation $37,380,307.64 17,765,999.69 S35,477,111.28 •16,861,710.31 50.64 24.07 1.66 .74 3 81,903,196.36 5 904,289.38 Express privileges— Dr. (47.53 per cent of receipts from operation) Total operating revenues Operating expenses (77.25 per cent of 19,614,307.95 15,151,337.42 239,864.48 ■118,615,400.97 < 14,380,134.35 4 227,655.38 26.57 20.52 .33 .82 .63 .01 6 998,906.98 6 771,203.07 » 12,209.10 Taxes (1.22 per cent of operating reve- nues) .- Operating income (21.53 per cent of operating revenues) 4,223,106.05 '4,007,611.24 5.72 .18 5 215, 494. 81 The average weight per revenue piece was 32.52 pounds. 1 On basis of 70,063,750, the number of revenue pieces handled. 2 On basis of 2,278,147,170 pounds, the aggregate weight of revenue pieces handled. 3 Reoresents "Revenue from operations other than transportation" and "Miscellaneous transportation revenue" as defined in the Classification of Operating Revenues, and revenue from shipments of money, valuables, etc., not properly includible in tonnage re])ort returns. 4 Represents an arbitrary assignment on basis of ratio (94.91 per cent) of tonnage revenue to total receipts from operation. ' Represents an arbitrary assignment on basis of ratio (5.09 per cent) of other revenue to total receipts from operation. Note.— Differences between items in the foregoing summary and corresponding items in Summary No. 3 are due to the fact that this statement presents combined returns from the 11 companies only from which complete reports both of revenues and expenses and of tonnage were received. 64 PARCELS POST. Appendix J. Classification of mileage covered by operations on June 30, 1909. Names of carriers. Adams Express Co American Express Co Caaadian Express Co Canadian Northern Express Co Globe Express Co Great Northern Express Co National Express Co Northern Express Co Paciflc Express Co Southern Express Co United States Express Co Wells, Fargo & Co Western Express Co Total Total mileage. 360.00 224.78 794.27 129.02 899.86 412. 16 714.25 757. 75 672.54 181. 00 206.00 698. 43 456.39 260,507.04 Steam road mileage. 30,676.00 45,668.08 6,964.27 3, 107. 62 1,899.85 7,031.57 1,416.25 6,488.75 21,721.20 30,936.00 20,286.34 69,316.90 3,448.39 238,961.22 Electric line mileage. 196.00 475. 70 66.00 22.00 169. 59 6.00 8.00 343.00 80.00 3,604.96 1,438.76 4.00 6,414.01 Steamboat line mileage. 3,405.00 2,05&60 737.00 211.00 292.00 261.00 608.34 2,165.00 314.70 4,081.65 4.00 14,138.19 mileage. 83.00 27.00 86L12 Appendix K. Cost of real property and equipment on June SO, 1908 and 1909. [Interstate Commerce Commission.] Total cost to Jmie 30— Account. 1908 1909 W4, 562, 641. 07 6,403,125.77 $14,932,169.94 H. Buildings and fixtures used in operation m. Equipment: 1. Cars 7,381,405.59 3. Vehicles Total 20,965,766.84 22,313,575.53 Appendix L. Statement showing inventory value of equipment owned on June SO, 1909. [Interstate Commerce Commission.] Total equipment, inventory value $9, 234, 071. 28 Cars: Number 120 Inventory value $232, 115. 69 Office equipment: 4-wlieel trucks — Number 25,485 Inventory value $505, 570.02 Office furniture and fixtures — Inventory value $1, 135, 226.45 Office safes — Number 11, 610 Inventory value $631, 662. 2(1 Horses and other draft animals: Number 17, 332 Inventory value $2, 499, 780. 65 Vehicles: Automobiles — Number 25f Inventory value $378, 240. 0( Double wagons — Number 3^ 6ffi Inventory value $805, 571. 8' PARCELS POST. 65 Vehicles — Continued . Single wagons — Number 9, 790 Inventory value $1, 188, 635. 08 Sleighs — Number 2, 878 Inventory value $81, 032. 16 Stable equipment (including harness): Inventory value $443, 296. 67 Transportation equipment: Car safes (stationary) — Number 1, 403 Inventory value $251, 756. 65 Messenger's safes — Number 13, 765 Inventory value $198, 108. 80 Messenger's packing trunks — Number 23, 815 Inventory value $178, 017. 06 All other equipment: Inventory value $705, 058. 01 Appendix M. Income account and profit and loss account statement for the year ending June SO, 1909. [Interstate Commerce Commission.] Operating income: Gross receipts from operation $132, 599, 190. 92 Express privileges— Dr ' 64, 032, 126. 69 Operating revenues $68, 567, 064. 23 Operating expenses 56, 273, 055. 29 Net operating revenues 12, 294, 008. 94 Taxes accrued 906, 519. 79 Operating income 11, 387, 489. 15 Other income : Operations of subsidiary companies (net credit balance) 98, 058. 05 Dividends declared on stocks owned and con- trolled 1,887,952.03 Interest accrued on funded debt owned or con- trolled 1,393,189.89 Interest on other securities, loans, and accounts. 1, 236, 957. 22 Miscellaneous income 616, 310. 54 Total other income 5, 232, 467. 73 Gross corporate income 16, 619, 956. 88 Deductions from gross corporate income: Operations of subsidiary companies (net debit balance) 7, 669. 64 Interest accrued on funded debt ^ 921, 246. 94 Other interest 126,034.01 Other deductions 182, 452. 71 Total deductions 1, 237, 403. 30 Net corporate income 15, 382, 553. 58 Disposition of net corporate income: Dividends declared from current income '4, 326, 939. 10 Additions and betterments charged to income 34, 919. 71 Miscellaneous appropriations 3, 000. 00 Balance for year carried forward to credit of profit and loss 11, 017, 694. 77 Balance June 30, 1908 45,400,925.34 Additions for year 3, 642, 327. 49 Deductions for year 7, 312, 628. 71 Dividends declared out of siu-plus 2, 223, 089. 94 Balance (credit profit and loss carried to balance sheet) 50, 525, 228. 95 ■ Includes $100,000, advance payment on contraot. ' Represents interest paid, qnn n '^ 66 PABCELS POST. Appendix N. Analysis of operating revenues for the year ending June 30, 1909. [Interstate Ckjinmerce Commission.] I. Eevenue from transportation: 1. Express revenue * ' q='27^'S 2. Miscellaneous transportation revenue oo,4/D.b4 Total revenue from transportation 130, 165, 602. 25 II. Revenue from operations other tlian transportation: 3. Customliouse brokerage fees ■*! 672. 73 4. Order and commission department 4, 672. 73 5. Rents of buildings and other property 57, 141. 04 6. Money orders — domestic \ 554 5^ yg 7. Money orders — foreign J ' 8. Traveler's cheques— domestic 16,473.90 9. Traveler's cheques — ^foreign 46, 606. 46 10. "C. O. D." checks 908,09429 11. Telegraphic transfers 14,026.93 12. Letters of credit 6,961.97 13. Other revenue — financial department 476, 298. 41 14. Miscellaneous revenue 130, 064. 37 Total revenue from operations other than transpor- tation 2, 433, 588. 67 Gross receipts from operation 132, 599, 190. 92 Express privileges— Dr • 64, 032, 126. 69 Total operating revenues 68,567,064.23 1 Includes $100,000 advance payment on contract. Appendix 0. postai. efpicienct table, ttnited states. Number, pieces mail matter handled per post-o£fke employee. Years. Employees. Pieces handled. Average per employee. 1890 162,708 171,676 178,835 184,217 184,607 195,720 198,605 204,304 210,896 216,751 218,857 226,825 239,662 241,820 251,515 238,366 268,044 251,458 255,344 258,200 4,005,408,206 4,369,900,352 4,776,575,076 5,021.841,056 4,919,090,000 5,134,281,200 5,693,719,192 5,781,002,143 6,214,447,000 6,576,310,000 7,129,990,202 7,424,390,329 8,085,446,858 8,887,467,048 9,502,459,535 10,187,505,889 11,361,090,610 12,255,666,367 13,173,340,329 14,004,577,271 24,611 1891 25,459 1892 26,708 1893 27.262 1894 26,646 1895 . 26,239 19061 28,550 1897 .... 28,296 1898 29,466 1899 30,340 1900 32,569 1901 . . . . 32,734 1902 33,734 1903 36,752 1904 35, 7K 42,739 1905 1906 42,385 48,738 61,691 54,239 1907 1908 1909 <■ The flrst experimental raral delivery service was established Oct. 1, 1896, simultaneously on three routes from Charlestown, Uvilla, and Halltown, W. Va. In 1900 there were reported 76,688 post offices and 1,276 rviral carriers. In 1910 the post offices had been reduced to 59,580 with 40,997 rural carriers. PARCELS POST. 67 Appendix P. Pieces of mail matter handled per post-office employee. ENGLAND. Years. Personnel. Pieces handled. Average per em- ployee. 1890 117,989 125, 762 11.31,4.59 1136,111 1138,738 1140.806 1144,700 1151,110 1159.942 1167,086 1173,184 1179,202 1183,695 1188,031 1192,454 1195,432 1199,278 1203,597 1207,947 2,822,839,636 2,715,316,605 2,783,976,234 2,862,190,236 2,907,235,941 3,028,787,728 3,139,866,228 3,316,683,018 3,494,307,224 3; 686, 277, 477 3,720,735,902 3,915,633,854 4,140,614,292 4, 297, 474, 401 4,475,877,113 4,682,322,120 4,687,692,176 4,795,110.105 4,853,088,929 22,230 1891 1892 i ■ 1893 1894 1895 28,775 1896 1897 1898 1899 190O 28,646 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 31,94S 1906 1907 1908 31,117 1 Tile flgures for the personnel include telegraph employees. In all such cases one-fourth of the total number of employees has been deducted from the total number in making the computation of the nimibei of pieces handled per employee per annum. FRANCE. Years. Personnel. Pieces handled. Average per em- ployee. 1890 . 162,200 167,670 157,828 1 64, 143 167,092 168,066 168,366 169,142 170,269 171,330 174,929 177,581 181,659 182,387 183,735 185,282 193,759 1100,449 1102,374 1,613,648,262 1,666,594,153 1,690,065,382 1, 747, 105, 412 1,755,492,308 1,822,203,228 1,926,840,499 2,066,375,716 2,172,677,054 2,092,460,752 2,152,873,380 -2,023,995,229 2,158,295,671 2,238,081,437 2,409,533,445 2,685,082,091 2,877,243,955 2,862,265,894 2,936,209,276 34,59{ 1891 1892 1893 ... . . 1894 1895 . . 35,70( 1896 1897 1898 1899 . 1900 38,30! 1901 1902 1903 1904 ' 1905 41,961 1906 1907 1908 38,24: GERMANY. 1890 1891 1892 1893 1894 1895 1896 1897 1890 1899 1900... 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 1906 1907 1908 1129,945 1148,594 1155,424 1 162, 779 1168,334 1175,759 1 183,212 1190,919 1199,013 1208,441 1222,809 1 233, 176 1241,967 1251,042 1263,517 1279,598 « 298,276 "314,251 » 326, 703 1,684,740,690 1,785,690,900 1,889,500,218 1,986,791,353 2,095,098,346 2,101,349,063 2,329,228,275 2,489,069,636 2,639,115,663 2,880,389,112 3, 434, 357, $76 3,699,187,757 3,966,627,748 4,242,157,259 4,439,285,948 4,647,065,089 5,014,587,587 5,448,330,989 5,641,324,858 17,28' 15,631 22,161 "25,96 1 The flgures for the personnel include telegraph employees. In all such cases one-fourth of the tota number of employees has been deducted from the total number in making the computation of the numbe of pieces handled per employee per annum. "The flgures for the personnelhere include telegraph and telephone employees. In this case one-thiri of the toKil nnrwer Qfeinployees has been deducted from the total number in making the computatioi of the number of pieces handled per employee per annum. 68 PAEOBLS POST. Appendix Q. General Post Office, London, April 3, 1911. Sm: With reference to your letter of the 6th of March, asking for certain stotistical information relative to the postal system of the United Kingdom, I am directed by the postmaster general to inform you that in this department the same officer frequently performs postal, telegraph, and telephone duties, so that it is not possible to give the numbers of the separate classes engaged on each of these branches of work. The amount paid in salaries or wages is, however, apportioned, for purposes of account, in accordance with the estimated time given to each branch, the figures for the financial year ending the 31st of March, 1910, being as follows: Postal £9,184,578 Telegraphs 2,611,198 Telephones 422,867 These figures will, it is hoped, suffice for your purpose. I am, sir, your obedient servant, F. J. Brown Mr. David J. Lewis. (For the Secretary). Appendix R. cost op transpoeting and handling mail matter, etc. Revenue, expense, and profit or loss per pound and per piece for the several classes of mail, United States. [Post Office Department.] Classes of mail. Revenue per pound. Expense per pound. Profit per ponnd. Lossp^ pound. First Second Third Fourth Ck>DgTe33iona] free (franked).. Departmental free (penalty). Foreign to. 84001 .01143 .12711 .16867 to. 49923 .09235 . 14317 .12308 .11441 . 12113 .11246 to. 34078 to. 08092 .01606 .04559 .11441 .12113 .04633 Classes of mail. Pieces per pound. Revenue per piece. Expense pet piece. Profit per piece. Loss per piece. First Second Third Fonrth Congressional free (franied) . Departmental free (penalty) Foreign 45.10 4.80 8.66 3.16 1.99 5.38 10.32 t0.01'!62 .00238 .01485 .05337 .01538 to. 01107 .01923 .01672 .03895 .05754 .02252 .01090 to. 00755 to. 01685 .00187 .01442 .05764 .02252 .00448 Appendix S. PARCELS-POST RATES IN THE DOMESTIC SERVICE IN THE COUNTRIES NAMED. [By Postmaster General Meyer.] Great Britain. — Postage rates for the first pound, 3 pence (6 cents), and for each additional pound, 1 penny (2 cents); maximum weight, 11 pounds; greatest length, 3 feet 6 inches; greatest length and girth combined, 6 feet. New Zealarid and the States composing the Comrhonwealth for Australia. — Limits of weight and size, same as in Great Britain. Postage rate, 6 pence (12 cents) for the first pound, and 3 pence (6 cents) for each additional pound. Germany. — Greatest weight, 50 kilograms (about 110 pounds); no limit of size. Postage rates: For all parcels conveyed not more than 10 geographic miles, 25 pfennig (6 cents), and 50 pfennig (13 cents) for greater distance; if a parcel weighs more than PAKCBLS POST. 69 5 kilograins (11 pounds average) it is charged for each additional kilogram (2 pounds) carried 10 miles, 5 pfennig (1 cent); 20 miles, 10 pfennig (3 cents); 50 miles, 20 pfennig (5 cents); 100 miles, 30 pfennig (8 cents); 150 miles, 40 pfennig (10 cents); and more than 150 miles, 50 pfennig (13 cents). Unwieldy parcels are charged in addition 50 per cent of the above rates. Austria. — Greatest weight, 50 kilograms (110 pounds); except that parcels contain- ing gold or silver coin may weigh up to 65 kilograms (143 pounds). Postage rates: Parcels up to 5 kilograms (11 poimds) in weight are charged 30 heller (6 cents) for the first 10 miles and 60 heller (12 cents) for greater distances. A parcel weighing more than 5 kilograms (11 pounds) is charged for each kilogram (2 pounds), in addition to the above rates, for the first 10 miles, 6 heller (1 cent); 20 miles, 12 heller (2 cents); 50 miles, 24 heller (5 cents); 100 miles, 36 heller (7 cents); 150 miles, 48 heller (10 cents); and more than 150 mUes, 60 heller (12 cents). France. — Greatest weight, 10 kilograms (about 22 pounds); no limit, of size. Postage rates: Up to 3 kilograms (7 pounds), 60 centimes (12 cents) delivered at the railway station and 85 centimes (17 cents) delivered at a residence; from 3 to 5 kilograms (7 to 11 pounds), 80 centimes (16 cents) at a station and 1 franc 5 centimes (21 cents) at residence; from 5 to 10 kilograms (11 to 22 pounds), 1 franc 25 centimes (25 cents) at a station and 1 franc 50 centimes (30 cents) at a residence. Belgium. — Greatest weight, 60 kilograms (about 132 pounds); no limit of size, but unwieldy parcels are charged 50 per cent in addition to the following rates for any distance: Parcels up to 5 kilograms (11 pounds), 50 centimes (10 cents) — or if by express trains, 80 centimes (16 cents); up to 10 kilograms (22 pounds), 60 centknes Q2 cents) — or it by express trains, 1 franc (30 cents); for each additional 10 kilograms (22 pounds), 10 centimes (2 cents) — or if sent by express trains, 50 centimes (10 cents) additional. Fee for delivering at residences, 30 centimes (6 cents). Italy. — Greatest weight, 5 kilograms (11 pounds). For ordinary parcels, greatest size in any direction, 60 centimeters (2 feet), except rolls, which may measure 1 meter (40 inches — 3 feet 4 inches) in length by 20 centimeters (8 inches) in thickness. Post- age rates for a parcel not exceeding 3 kilograins (7 pounds), 60 centimes (12 cents); and 1 franc (20 cents) for a parcel exceeding that weight. A parcel which exceeds 60 centimeters (2 feet) in any directiori, but does not exceed 1^ meters (5 feet), is admitted to the mails as an "unwieldy" parcel, and is charged, in addition to the above rates, 30 centimes (6 cents) if it does not weigh more than 3 kilograins (7 pounds), and 50 centimes (10 cents) if it exceeds that weight. The Netherlands. — Greatest weight, 5 kilograms (11 pounds); greatest size, 25 cubic decimeters (1,525 cubic inches), or 1 meter (3 feet 4 inches), in any direction. Postage rates: 15 (6) cents (Dutch) up to 1 kilogram (2 pounds); 20 (8) cents from 1 to 3 kilo- grams (2 to 7 pounds); 25 cents (10) from 3 to 5 kilograins (7 to 11 pounds). Chile. — Greatest weight, 5 kilograins (11 pounds) ; must not measure more than 60 centimes (2 feet) in any direction. Postage rates: 30 cenfavos (10 cents) if a parcel does not weigh more than 3 kilograins (7 pounds); 50 centavos (17 cents) if it weighs more. Cuba. — Greatest weight, 11 pounds; greatest size, 3 feet 6 inches in length by 2 feet 6 inches in width. Postage rates: 10 centavos (10 cents) a pound up to 5 pounds, and 6 centavos (6 cents) for each additional pound. Appendix T, Table of express and freight weights in different countries, with ratios, etc. Coantries. Year. Population. Number of express pounds per capita. Number of freight pounds per capita. Ratio of express weiglit to freigbt. Argentina Austria Belgium ' Germany Hungary France United States 1909 1908 1909 1908 1908 1908 1909 6,460,428 28,032,656 7,295,963 63,017,000 20,866,184 38,961,945 92,000,000 165.4 116.6 1199 140.4 67.8 140.6 99 10,680 11,260 '16,320 15,980 5,540 7,480 16,300 1:64 1:97 11:82 1 :113 1:84 1:53 1:165 1 Includes 214 miles of privately owned railway. 70 PAECELB POST. Denmark, Norway, and NetherlandB not included because complete freight and express tonnage of State owned and private owned railways are not available. Eng- land gives no express data, and the same is true of Australasia. The express weights do not include the weights of the parcels earned by mail m any case. Appendix U. the parcels-post system op germany. rWritten for Dunn's Eeview of Feb. 24, 1906, by Hon. J. C. Monaghan, of tlie Department of Com- merce and Labor, Washington, D. C] Among the greatest needs of the present day is a better development of the means of distribution. Much of the overproduction, of which so many complainta are heard, is simply due to lack of distribution. Among the modem methods of distributing merchandise the post holds a rank scarcely dreamed of in the days of the first American Postmaster General, Benjamin Franklin. Even his genius hardly foresaw the day when the packages of the merchant and tradesman would be carried by the postman. The best example of a successful parcels-post system to enable a business man to form a just idea of it is the German system, which the writer saw in operation for 12 years. The g^antic genius that forged and welded the fragments of the Empire into one cohesive mass — Bismarck — did as much as anyone to give the Empire a postal system so successful that it excites envy and emulation. In a year 1903 it netted the Empire nearly $15,000,000 over and above all expenditures, while the American service showed a deficit of $4,356,000. WELDING THE CITIES TO THE PAKMS, Not the least successful branch of the system — certainly not the least useful part— is that which deals with parcels or packages of all kinds of products, from those of the farm or ranch to those of the factory or department store. Prom the huge streams of wares that flow through the post offices of Berlin, Hamburg, and the larger towns and cities, as well as the tiny rivulets of articles that are put into the parcels post in remote Tyrolese hamlets and in thousands of country offices, is formed a veritable ocean or sea of traffic. The yeUow wagons of the Empire or the royal wagons of King- doms like Wurtemburg and Bavaria that have held on to their separate postal rights, wind their way in and out of the highways and byways of the entire Empire, pick- ing up and laying down wares. Anyone may participate in the benefits of the Ger- man parcels-post system — that is, anyone who is wilUng to conform to its regulations regarding fulminates, living creatures, the making out of cards, etc. A mother in the south may make up a parcel or package of food, linen, and other articles and send it to her boy in Berlin for a trifling sum. A traveler may pick up bits of bric-a-brac in the hills and have them mailed to some central city for a few cents, or he may leave his hnen to be washed and have it forwarded to some place on his itinerary for no more than he would expect to pay a porter to carry it to his hotel. Nor has the house- wife any inconvenience; the yellow wagon with its royal eagles will call to pick up the parcels as well as to deliver them, charging nothing for calling and only a trifle for the collecting. A SIMPLE MAIL-EXPBBSS SHIPPING SYSTEM. A card about 4 by 6 inches has to accompany every package. In case of goods going to one address, three packages, unless insured, registered, or sent c. o. d., may be covered by one card. This indicates the disposition of the country to make the postal service not only convenient, but as inexpensive as possible. When insured, registered, or sent c. o. d., each package musthave its own card. Every card is divided into two parts. On the extreme left is a strip for the address of the sender, the stamp of the receiving office, and for the name of the party to whom the goods are sent. This part is torn from the card and is retained at the receiving office and constitutes an excellent reference record in case of loss or trouble. On the other part is put the name of the person for whom the goods are intended, the stamp or stamps necessary to send it, a space for the number of packages sent, the weight of the package as deter- mined by the post-office scales, and a number correspondmg with one marked upon the package itself and given serially. On the back of the card are spaces for a short message to the receiver, for a storage number to be used in case the package has to be laid away till called for, or for instructions in regard to delivery; also space for the signature of the receiver. Besides all this there are prir^,ed instructions as to how the card is to be used and certain important points in the parcels-post regulations. PABOELS POST. 71 These cards cost the price of the stamp on them when stamped, or four for 1 cent, unstamped. Private parties may make and use their own cards provided they supply themselves with exact imitations of those furnished by the government. The package has to correspond in every particular of its address to the form used on the card. It must indicate by the word "frei," or "franco," corresponding to our word free, that posatage has been paid, or that it is "eingeschrieben," registered, or "per Eilbote zu bestellen," to be delivered by special messenger, etc. In case the package, as frequently happens, contains animals, living or dead, or any perishable commodity, the card must contain instructions to "return to if not delivered," or "if not delivered, sell," or "it not delivered, telegraph sender." And "the beauty of it all," as a traveling American once put it, "is that the Imperial Government does exactly as it is told or asked to do." The address must be written in full; must be perfectly plain, both as to names and numbers. In case a cons^ment is insured, that fact must be put upon the package as well as upon the card. Light objects of little value, such as can stand pressure and which wul not cause dirt or any kind of inconvenience, may be put up in ordinary packing paper. All parcels above 6 pounds must be put up' in several wrappings of heavy paper. Valuable parcels, particularly those that are easily moistened, crushed, or injured by rubbing, must be covered with oilcloth or pasteboard, or must be packed in boxes; in other words care must be taken to so cover them as to secure a minunum of danger. Fluids shipped in bottles or flasks must be carefully packed in cases or baskets. Living creatures must be so packed as to protect the animal from discomfort, at least reasonably so, and to make sure of no injury or danger of injury to the post-office officials or parties whose duty it is to handle the packages. The wrapping, tying, sealing, etc., of the packages must be such as to secure its contents from unwarranted examination. Packages that are insured must be carefully sealed with sealing wax and legibly stamped. If the parcel or package is one that is sent in a locked box case, or cask, the sealing is not, as in the other cases, indispensable. Coin, paper, money, bonds, and other valuable paper may be sent by the parcels post, but they are sent under special regulations. IN THE MATTER OF URGENCY. The only regulation in the system to which any exception can be taken is the one that says the parcels must be forwarded by the accommodation trains, and not by the limited or fast ones. This is doubtless due to the fact that delivery of so many packages would inevitably and inordinately delay the fast trains. Exception, how- ever, might have been made in favor of live animals, fresh fish, perishable fruits, and flowers, for in all of these there is an immense traffic. Perhaps it is pertinent to remark here that the payment of $0,338 will secure the shipment of such parcels on fast trains and special delivery at point of destination. Shipments of an urgent character, if marked as such, may not be registered or insured. They must, however, bear the word urgent ("dringlich") in large letters on a card of a particular color, the address being clear and unmistakable. In ordinary towns parcels are delivered twice a day; in large cities oftener." In case the card calls for a special delivery the package is hurried to its destination by a special messenger. This service calls for 10 cents extra if the delivery is inside city limits and 22 cents if it is beyond them. In some cases notice only of the arrival of the package is given by special messenger, in which case the charge is the same as for the special delivery of ordinary letters or money orders — 5 cents inside the city, 15 cents outside. If the sender pays for the special messenger he must indicate mat he has done so by putting "Bote bezahlt" (messenger paid) on the parcel and accompanying card. In case no special delivery IS demanded or possible, the package is delivered in the ordinary way by the "regular parcels-post wagon. A BUSINESSLIKE DELIVBRY SYSTEM. The delivery charge differs in degree, depending upon distance. For example, parcels up to 11 pounds pay 2J cents mside city limits; for rural delivery the charge is 2i cents for packages under 5ipounds and 5 cents for all others that are within the weight permitted for parcels . Heavier parcels — that is, parcels of more than 5 pounds — for city delivery pay 3J cents per parcel. In case the card covers three packages, the limit allowed to one card, there is a charge of 3J cents for the heaviest and IJ cents for each of the other two. When the goods have to be carried into the country (rural delivery) the charge is 2J cents for each parcel weighing less than 5J pounds, and 5 cents for every other parcel permitted to go by parcels post. Careful, sensible, sys- tematic, and businesshke are the only words that will j)roperly describe this wonderful system and its successful work. In the matter of city delivery fees much is left to local authorities; the general-delivery fees, however, are determined by the central postal authorities. A very large part of the postal parcels are carried to me post office 72 PAEOELS POST. by boys and girls, private messengers, servants, and by the parties sending the wares. As already indicated, the parcels-post wagon is always ready to call. It has its regu- lar rounds each day, and may be called by a card addressed to the bureau or division having charge of the wagons. Of course, such a card should be sent to reach head- quarters before the wagons start on their daily trips. A parcel may be carried to a wagon long after it has passed the locality in which the sender resides. It will be taken by the condutcor of the wagon, for each wagon has a conductor and driver. The charge for collection is the same as the charge for delivery, 2J cents inside the city limits and 3J cents for collections in the country, or outside city limits, in the so-called rural zones, for parcels weighing less than 5 J pounds, and 6 J cents for heavier parcels up to the limit allowed by law. In case the carrier can not deliver a parcel the sender is notified and asked for instructions, a charge of 5 cents being made for the notice. As already pointed out, if a sender has doubts about the acceptance or ability of the carrier to deliver, he can make provision for its delivery or disposition on the accompanying card. CHARGES THAT MAKE BUSINESS GROW- The one vital factor in a system of this kind is the charge. If it is too high it defeats the object at which it aims — public convenience. In all its efforts to secure efficiency the German Empire has always aimed at a system such as would secure that result at a moderate cost. Its success has been fairly phenomenal, for its charges have been moderate, the service the very acme of efficiency. As already suggested, distance and weight form the factors in the problem of price for the service. The distance charges are determined by zones, the first zone or circle within which the lowest price is paid being 10 geographical miles from the post office as a center; the second zone all points beyond the 10-mile limit, but within 20 miles; the third, the points between the 20 and a 50 mile circle; the fourth, between 50 and 100; the fifth, between 100 and 150; the sixth and last, all points in the Empire beyond a circle 150 miles from the post office or center. For l^hter parcels — those weighing less than II Eounds — only two zones are marked off, the 10-mile zone and those parts of the Empire eyond the 10-mile boundary. For such parcels the charge is 6 cents for the inside and 12 cents for the outside zones; for parcels weighing over 11 pounds an extra charge is made upon every extra 2.2 pounds or kilogram. The packages are weighed before admission, and are accepted up to 110 pounds each. In case the sender fails to prepay the postal charges, a fine of 2J cents is levied on parcels that do not weigh more than 11 pounds; in case of heavier packages no fine is levied. The purpose of this regulation is to effectively reduce the number of unpaid parcels under 11 Eounds, for these make up the major part of the parcels posted. Light packages, ut of large size — say, cases containing bonnets, flowers, feathers, etc., or delicate, easily destroyed comtmodities — come under a specific classification. They are classed by cubic contents. As soon as a package exceeds 59 inches in any one dimension it is put in this class; also parcels that measure 39.37 inches one way and 19.68 in another, but weigh less than 22 poimds. In this class falf plants in baskets sent all over the Empire by nurseries, hat and bonnet boxes, furmture, fancy baskets, boxes, Black Forest or Tyrol clocks and carvings, cages, empty or containing animals, etc. Such parcels pay 50 per cent more than the reg|ular rates, insurance fees not included in the estimate. Parcels of great value are usually insured, the charges being exceedingly small — 2i cents for all parcels under $142.80, with 1.19 cents additional for each $71.40; in other words, a parcel worth $357 pays, when insured, for such insurance 5.95 cents, practically 6 cents; a parcel worth $1,428 is insured for 23.8 cents, etc. CHEAP AND QUICK TEANSPOETATION MAKES POR GENERAL QROSPERITY. How much the parcels post has meant in the past, how much it means now, and how much it is to mean in the Empire's marvelous development will never be known till some German Mulhall makes its work the subject of a brilliant special monograph. From the far-off shores of Heligoland and the North Sea fishing villages the products of the deep are collected, carried across a large part of the Continent, and delivered, the service extending to the confines of Bohemia or even to Austria and Hungary, for there is a postal airangement between the two Empires that admits all the benefits of the one to the citizens of the other. Prom the seaport cities come the bananas, oranges, lemons, pineapples, coconuts, the rich spices of the East, the finer fibers and textiles of Persia, India, China, and Japan; from Switzerland come the rich dairy products and marvelous honey gathered from its mountain flowers, a honey as ■ rich as that of Hymettus; from the Rhine lands the wines are sent in baskets far beyond where the vine will grow; out of the south, by Botzen, on the hills near Innsbruck, and along Lake Garda go fruits and flowers to Berlin and Breslau, Konigsberg, Dan- PAKCELS POST. 78 zig, and Stettin. A message by wire, in case of a run on fruits or flowers, will be filled in 24 or 48 hours — the entire order, including the telegram, costing from 25 cents to $1, the latter price being exceptional, incurred only when the parcel exceeds 50 pounds. Under the 11-pound policy for 12 cents eiiormous shipments have been made and are being made. This rate is the popular one. Germany's advantages over the united states. Business men, bankers, merchants, manufacturers, and the people are unanimous in praise of the imperial parcels post. All regard is at indispensable. All wonder how they ever got along without it. The rates fiom the empire to neighboring nations, particularly to those with whom Germany has arranged postal treaties, are exceedingly low. As already indicated, the rates to Austria are the same as those laid down by law for Germany, and parcels for Egypt and through Switzerland and Italy pay only 52 cents for 11 pounds. Parcels for the United States cost 33 cents if 1 kilogram or 2.2 pounds; from 2.2 to 11 pounds, 33 to 88 cents, depending upon weight, distance, delivery, etc. In all cases care must be taken first to find out the terms of the law. This may be done by reading the rules and regulations. Certain requirements are exacted m the case of goods going into a country that exacts tariff duties. In the case of our own country, the law requires the making out of two declarations, covering the cost, in addition to the card. In the matter of size, no package must be over 41.24 inches or 105 centimeters long, and the circumference must not go beyond 70.87 inches (180 centimeters). The charge for packages ranging from 1 kilogram (2.2 pounds) to 4.4 pounds is 26 cents; for each 22.046 pounds or fraction thereof an addi- tional charge of 13 cents is made. The rate for 220.46 pounds (100 kilograms) is $1.31. As regards the imperial parcels-post system as a whole, Germany's method of meeting the new economic, industrial, and commercial era upon which it has entered is one that is sure to commend itself in time to the thoughtful statesman. Appendix V. EXAMPLES IN OTHER COUNTRIES. There are very few countries not having a more or less highly developed system of parcels post. A Hst is herewith inserted giving a large number of them with tariffs for certain weights and distances. Parcels-post tariffs. Countries. Weight. Englisli miles. Approxi- mate rates. Great Britain France Germany Germany-Austria Austria Hungary Italy New Zealand Victoria Bouth Australia. . New SouthWales Pounds. 1 2 11 6 11 22 11 11 110 11 1.1 1.1 11 11 11 11 11 6i 1 11 1 11 1 11 1 2 11 46 Cents. 8 24 12 16 25 6 12 60 12 6 12 6 IS 7 IS 20 12 12 72 12 72 12 72 12 18 73 1 No limit. > 6 cents for each additional pound. 74 PAEOBLS POST, Austria Hungary, Belgium, and Germany, at least, among these liave the 110- pound limit; a limit within which 96 per cent of the American express traffic travels, the average parcel weighing 32.80 pounds, and only about 5 per cent (4.94) of the number of pieces exceeding 100 pounds. Appendix W. an aqkiculttjeai; pahoel post. Nineteenth Century, vol. 53, p. 253.] The object of the writer of this article is not so much to entertain the reader as to attempt to show how the income of the United Kingdom may be immediately increased by at least 60,000,000 sterling, distributed among a class of men who are admitted to be the backbone of the community, but whose fate it seems to be to suffer from the prosperity of their fellows. There is but one class which can be thus described— thB agricultural. There is but one renffedy suggested for its misfortunes — an agricultural parcel post. Not that the post office can do all that is required. The official Hercules will cer- taialy expect the depressed cultivator to put a shoulder to the wheel. The postmaster general is nowise responsible for the enterprise of trans- Atlantic farmers or the cuttiog of trans-Atlantic freights. So long as the British farmer acts on the theory that his land will produce only one thing, which he can not sell at a profit, nobody, not even Hercules, can help him. For as against stupidity "the gods themselves contend iii vain." But if he will grow that which is highly profitable and which the post office alone (without injury to its revenue) can bring to market, then it is clearly the duty of the post office to place its machinery at his service. It is worth while to examine with an impartial mind the facts and arguments for and against postal intervention. WHAT WE ARE LOSING ^IN ACRES. There are in the United Kingdom 77,667,959 acres, of which 29,917,374 acres are uncultivated. Of the uncultivated portion, 1,225,000 acres were cultivated 11 years ago, when I brought the matter before Mr. Raikes; 806,872 have been laid down in pasture, while 418,473 have become primeval deserts. WHAT WE ARE LOSING ^IN MEN. While our fields have been thus abandoned to weeds those who tilled them have emigrated to lands where their services are valuable. In the last 10 years 1,603,523 persons have left our shores, whole villages have been deserted as in time of plague, and all we get in return for our country is the barren title officina gentium. NO LINK BETWEEN GROWER AND BUYER. The sterilizing influence, the fatal objection, is the want of some means of getting the produce in question quickly and cheaply to the market. A man farming 1,000 acres contracts with the dealers in town and delivers hia produce daily from his own van or cart at the nearest railway station. But the tens of thousands who occupy from 1 to 20 acres own no vans, and in order to secure lower rent they live far away from the railways; and the situation of a farm is everything. We can not say of the modem British farmer as Horace wrote of the Roman, "Beatus Ule qui procul negotiis." THE DRUGGIST CALLED IN. When dealing with "perishables" produce, as it is called, it is obvious that speed of transmission from grower to consumer is the vital factor. No sooner has the aplde fallen or the egg been laid or the butter been made than predatory bacteria begm to pollute it and destroy its pristine and peculiar savor. A certain Scottish angler, an epicure, has a fire kindled on the bank of the Tweed and into a pot boiling on thSt ffle the first salmon he kills is thrown. Another salmon, caught withm the hour and cooked in London 24 hours later, would have a different and inferior flavor, because the oil in the flesh would be slightly rancid. Thompson, the poet, are peached gfo'^ing on the tree, just as writers of prose, if bold enough, the oyster alive. Dr. JohnBon, who, doubtless, in those days of bad roads and slow wagons, spoke feelingly, declared that no man was "satisfied with a moderately fresh egg." If we except Chinamen, this PARCELS POST. 75 is true; but very few inhabitants of oiir towns can secure "new-laid" eggs. As to butter, cheese, and milk, it is notorious that our foreign friends thoughtfully save our noses from being offended by a liberal use of chemical preservatives, with which the British stomach is supposed to deal. One dares not calcillate how many kegs of Belgian borax and French acid the British middle-class baby must assimilate at the most critical period of its existence. A DETAILED PLAN. It remains to suggest a workable plan for the desired operation of the post office. And here it becomes an outsider who is not an official and who knows nothing experi- mentally of la petite culture to observe all due modesty. The aim in this article is to promote discussion of the subject, and it wUl, of course be a subject of congratu- lation to the writer if a far better system than his can be brought forward . THE PRIME NEED. In the first place, the post office should undertake the work of collection. la every rural district mapped out there should be local depots, say a mile apart, along the roads to which parcels of produce would be brought by a certain hour from the neighbor- ing farms and cottages. A postal van hired in the locality would collect from these depots and the village post offices and convey the parcels to the nearest railway station. The tri fli ng expense of maintaining such a depot might fairly be undertaken by the farmers benefited. Motor cars should be employed if possible. Let us suppose that a district is 10 miles from a post office and is inhabited by a hundred cottagers raising then (as all would) produce. Clearly the rural postman who now accepts parcels would (even if trained by Sandow) be unequal to llie task. But the postal van or motor car would convey everything to the station in time for the appointed train to the town of destina- tion. On reaching that town the parcels would be delivered (if so addressed) to the depot to be established there or (U so addressed) to individual purchasers. In this way eggs, imlk, butter, poultry, fruit, and flowers might be placed on our tables within four or five hours of the leaving of the farm of origin. RATES, And now with respect to rates. The writer would recommend 1 penny per pound for the cash-on-deHver parcels, with a TniniTnuTn of 2 pence for anything not over 2 poimds, and one-half penny per pound with a penny minimum for parcels consigned to depots where the postal work is simply collection. These charges should be paid in adhesive stamps. The maximum weight should be raised to one hundredweight (as in Germany), to be ultimately higher still. And here one should entreat the post office to have as few charges as possible and to give the "zone" system, so successful on the Continent, at least a fair trial. Unfortunately, the post office, as we know, has to pay 50 per cent of the postage on railway-borne parcels to the companies. That bargain, however, comes to an end next year, and meanwhile the post office would pocket all the postage on the parcels sent to the nearest depot by its motor-car service. J. Henniker Heaton, M. P. Appendix X. Express rates by passennger train in England. [Consular report.] Weight. Up to 30 miles. 30 miles to 50 miles. 50 miles to 100 miles. Over 100 miles. 2 Pownds. a. 4 5 6 6 6 6 6 Cents. 0.0811 .1013 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 s.d. 4 5 6 6 6 8 8 Cents. 0.0811 .1013 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1622 .1622 s.d. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Cents. 0.0811 .1013 .1216 .1419 .1622 .1824 .2027 s.d. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Cents. 0.0811 3 , .1013 4. . , 1216 6 . 1419 6 .1622 7. .1824 8 .2027 •76 PABOEI^ POST. Express rates by passenger train in England — Continued. Weight. Up to 30 miles. 30 miles to 50 miles. SO miles to 100 miles. Over 100 mUes. PouTjis— Continued. 9. d. 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 7 7 7 7 8 g 8 8 9 9 9 Cents. 0. 1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1216 .1419 .1419 .1419 .1419 .1622. .1622 .1622 .1622 .1824 .1824 .1824 s.d. 8 8 8 8 9 9 9 10 10 10 11 11 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 3 1 3 1 4 1 4 1 5 1 5 1 6 Cents. 0.1622 .1622 .1622 .1622 .1824 .1824 .1824 .202'; .2027 .2027 .2230 .2230 .2230 .2433 .2433 .2433 .2635 .2635 .2838 .2838 .3040 .3040 .3244 .3244 .3446 .3446 .3649 s.d. 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 3 1 3 1 4 1 4 1 5 1 5 1 6 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 1 9 1 10 1 11 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 3 Cents. 0.2230 .2433 .2433 .2433 .2635 .2635 .2838 .2838 .3040 .3040 .3244 .3244 .3446 .3446 .3649 .3649 .3852 .4055 .4257 .4257 .4460 .4663 .4866 .4866 .5068 .5270 .5473 s.d. Oil 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 110 1 11 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 2 6 2 7 2 8 2 9 2 10 2 11 Centt. 0.22Sn 10 . ?ffl 11.... : . : 'm 12 W 13 ■tfn 14 w 16 vm 16 vn 17 m 18 19 4053 20 21 iifiO 22 4663 23 24 25 ^ 26 27 M'n 'i676 29 30 fffip 31 32 M^ 33 34 DRO? 35 7096 Farm and dairy produce by passenger train, Great Western Railway, England. [Consular report.] Weight. Up to 31 miles. 31 to 50 miles. 51 to 100 miles. 100 to 200 miles. Over 200 miles. 10 pounds 24 pounds Above 24 pounds Cents. 12.16 12.16 .25 Cents. 12.16 12.16 .5 Cents. 12.16 18.24 .75 s. d. 8 1 i Cents. 16.22 24.33 1 s.i. 09 1 3 I dm. 18.24 30.40 1.25 1 Minimum charge, 12+ cents. The above are special rates of the Great Western Railway for consignments of butter, cream, fish, eggs, game, poultry, vegetables, flowers, etc., and include collection and delivery. Appendix Y. Post Office Dbpaktment, Office op the Postmaster Geneeal, Washington, B.C., May S5, 1911, Hon. D. J. Lewis, House of Representatives. My Dear Sir: In compliance with your request of the 20th instant for information with reference to City and Rural Delivery Services, I beg to advise you as follows: At the present time there are 1,528 post offices having city delivery. The letter carriers in these offices serve a population of approximately 43,000,000. The law requires that before city delivery can be established at an office the gross postal receipts must amount to $10,000 or more, or the population, according to the last Federal or State census, must be 10,000 or more. If either of these requiremenli is met, city delivery majr, in the discretion of the Postmaster General, be authorized. No rule prescribing a nunimum population has been made, but at the average o£Sce, where the receipts are sufficient to permit the establishment of the service, the pop- ulation is usually between 3,000 and 4,000, and the employment of two or more (a^ riers is generally necessary. Even where the requirement is met as to receipKi however, the service would not ordinarily be established unless the full time of one PAKCELS POST. 77 carrier could be utilized. As a precedent to the establishment of the City Delivery Service the department also requires the streets to be named, houses numbered, ' sidewalks laid, and adequate street lights provided. On May 1, 1911, there were in operation from 17,295 post offices, 41,289 rural routes, served by 41,190 rural carriers. Approximately 20,000,000 people are served by these carriers. Very truly, yours, Fbank H. Hitchcook, Postmaster General. Appendix Z. the sociological view. [Ward, Dynamic Sociology, vol. 2, p. 578.] As remarked in the introduction, the question whether any enterprise should be undertaken by the state or left to private individuals is one which must he deter- mined on the intrinsic merits of each individual case. The transfer of functions from the latter to the former simply marks the expansion of the jurisdiction of the State, a process which, when correctly viewed, has been going on steadily from the earliest ages of political history. Nearly every present acknowledged function of government has once been intrusted to private enterprise. It simply shows that litue by little society has risen to the consciousness of its needs, and has, one by one, assumed control of the more important public interests. "Whether it be its finances, its crimi- nal jurisprudence, its customs regulation, its postal affairs, its telegraphs, or its rail- roads, whatever it fairly perceives to need state administration, it proceeds to assume and add to the functions of the government. Now, of all the enterprises which the state has thus appropriated to itself there is not one which it has not managed better and more wisely than it had been managed before by private parties. Most of them are such that the world has entirely forgotten that they were ever private enterprises. Others have become cherished public insti- tutions, which no future revolutions can again remand to private direction. And there are others which are still debating ground and on trial in some states. The transportation question is one of these latter. Telegraph communication is another. Education is a third. Other social operations still, not now looked upon except by a few as belonging to this class, are destined to pass through the stages of agitation and governmental assumption. These facts should not, however, lead to the conclu- sion that govenmient should immediately assume charge of all private enterprises which concern the general public. There must be a gradual maturing of the con- ditions, both on the side of me state and the individual, before this can successfully be done. The question in each case must always be. Is the age ripe for this change? As society is constituted, however, premature action of this nature can scarcely occur. So strong is the force of established custom that it much more frequently happens that the event is too long postponed and the state does not step in until me crying evils of private mismanagement and individual incompetency have thoroughly aroused it to the necessity. The superiority of govern mental administration over private management in large enterprises of a general private character has been clearly seen and frequently pointed out, but the progress of popular opinion on such questions has been powerfully coun- teracted by the special nature of the case. Private enterprise is ever jealous of governmental encroachment upon its domain, and the more lucrative the enterprise is — that is, the greater the need that it be conducted by society in the interest of its members — the stronger will be the influence brought to beai' against such a result. This influence is exerted by the creation of a public sentiment gainst state inter- ference. In this private enterprise always has matters almost entirely its own way. The state has little interest in the subject. The people at large rarely attribute their burdens to the proper source. Things must reach the point of unendurableness before the public will appeal to the state for assistance. Meanwhile a constant stream of opposition to all forms of state interference, more or less ingeniously sup- ported by plausible argument, is being poured out by interested parties. The result is, according to the principle already laid down, that current views which are unop- posed will be generally accepted (supra, 422, 433) that the state must overcome an immense mass of prejudice before it can act in any case. It is fashionable to declaim against the so-called "bureaucracy" of modern times, but this is only a part of the attempt of sagacious capitalists to manufacture public sentiment to coimteract the steady current of rational conviction toward the conclusion that society must arouse to its own interests and take the welfare of its members more directly into its own hands. 78 PABCELS POST. Appendix AA. a brief summary of the bills introduced in the house relating to parcels p0( H. R. 2956. Gives post-office monopoly of matter admissible to the nmils. H. R. 5596. Rural-route parcels, ll-j)ound limit. H. R. 2986. Parcels post, ll-pound limit, rates graded from 12 to 3 cents a poiin H. R. 6311. Parcels post, 12-pound limit, 8 cents a pound. H. R. 7603. Experimental rural route, 11-pound limit. H. R. 8386. Parcels post, 11-pound limit, 12 cents a pound, 5 cents a pound ( 50-mile haul. H. R. 4444. Experimental parcels post, packages originating on rural routes; $20,(K appropriation. H. R. 4027. Rural route for parcels, 25-pound limit, 2 cents first pound and 1 cei added pound. And general post for farm products to 25-pound limit, 2 cents fin pound and 1 cent each additional pound. H. R. 1341. Experimental rural route, confined to four counties. H. R. 16. Urban delivery in towns of not less than 1,000 population. H. R. 14. Parcels post, limit 11 pounds, 8 cents a pound; proviBions for insuranc of packages; rural-route rates given. Mr. StnLZEE. Mr. Chairman, Congressman Francis B. Harrisoi desires an opportunity to submit a statement regarding the parci post matter. He asked me to secure the consent of the subcommittee for that purpose. The Chairman. And insert it in the record ? Mr. SuLZEE. Yes. The Chaieman. Is it his own statement ? Mr. SuLZEE. Yes. The Chaieman. Without objection, that will be granted. STATEMENT OF HON. FRANCIS B. HARRISON, REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK. Mr. Harrison. Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the opportunity of appearing in behalf of the Siilzer parcels-post bill. I shall be brief because I have, on a previous occasion, addressed the House at length in behaK of an extended parcels post. I have been profoundly impressed by the interesting statement made by the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Lewis. I ha,ve long regarded the express companies as the most burden- some incumbrance in modern life. Economically, they are para- sites; and socially, they are the greatest obstruction to modern progress and conuort. At a time when we had few railways in the country, the express companies had a reason for existence. No one would withhold the credit that is due to the brave men who ran the pony express in the early days across the plains and mountains, nor should we fail to admire the energy and shrewdness of those Yankees who first established the carpetbag express from New York to Boston and from New York to Buffalo, when there was no through rail connection. Those days, however, are long passed and gone forever. Now the express company does nothing whatever except increase the cost of transportation. The railway performs the trans- portation service, and the customers are not allowed to pay them directly but must pay an enormously increased price to the express companies. Except in the largest cities, they neither collect nor distribute the packages; in fact they do nothing but add to the high cost of living. I have lived for extended periods in both France and England, and know from personal observation the blessings of a genuine parcels-post system. It therefore strikes me with particular regret that the United States of America, claiming to be the foremost in civilization to-day, should be so far behind other civilized countries in one of the necessaries and conveniences of life. They say that the express companies are all-powerful politically; this I refuse to believe. They say that the country merchants have been insti- gated by the express companies to resist the march of progress. They can no more permanently prevent the coming of a genuine parcels post than could the stagecoach drivers in the days of old prevent the establishment of the railroad. But I believe that the country merchant will be benefited along with all the rest of our citizens by the coming of the parcels post. We can measure ac- curately the millions of dollars we pay unnecessarily into the hands of the express companies, but no one can teU, until their restrictive and unreasonable exactions are removed, how greatly they have obstructed the course of commerce. I hope and believe that that time is now at hand. I urge upon you the adoption of the Sulzer bill. Mr. SxjLZEK. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, just a word, to say that I do not agree in much that Brother Ijewis has said. go PABCBLS POST. The Chairman. Just a minute. I think there are several members who desire to go on the floor of the House, because there is some important matter that is likely to come up at once—the election ot Senators resolution. With that thought m mmd, would it not be well for us to take a recess until later in the day, say, until 2 o'clock or 1.30? Without objection, the committee will stand m recess until 2 o'clock. (Thereupon at 12.15 o'clock p. m. the committee took a recess untn 2 o'clock.) AFTER RECESS. The committee reassembled at 2 o'clock, pursuant to the taking of recess. » , • Mr. SuLZER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, the first speaker I shall present this afternoon will be Frederick C. Beach, the editor of the Scientific American, and the president of the Postal Progress League. STATEMENT OF FREDERICK C. BEACH. Mr. Beach. As representing the Postal Progress League and the Scientific American The Chairman (interposing) . As you are president of the Postal Progress League, will you be kind enough to state what it is ? i&. Beach. It is an association for the promotion or improvement of the postal service in the United States. The Chairman. Who are its promoters ? Mr. Beach. I am president; Mr. Cowles is secretary. Then we have other executive officers in Boston. The Chairman. Have you a membership fee ? Mr. Beach. Yes, sir; we have a membership fee of $2. The Chairman. You are taking an interest in legislation affecting the subject of the parcels post ? Mr. Beach. Yes, sir. The Chairman. And also other legislation affecting the postal service ? Mr. Beach. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Have you any fund that you use for the purpose of meeting the expenses of the investigation ? Mr. Beach. Why, we do it through the membership and through subscriptions of people that are interested. The Chairman. Who are the people that are interested that make those subscriptions ? Mr. Beach. There are quite a number of them here. I have a list here of some few hundred. The Chairman. That is, the persons paid the $2 ? Mr. Beach. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Who are the persons who make the larger contri- butions ? Mr. Beach. These include both the $2 and the other contributions. The Chairman. Does anyone make any contribution other than those named in that Hst ? Mr. Beach. Yes ; these are not all. PABOELS POST. 81 The Chairman. Have you any large contributions ? Mr. Beach. Yes; the G4"ange of Connecticut has given us $400. The Chairman. Is ttiat the largest contribution you have ? Mr. Beach. That is one of the largest; yes. We have some of a hundred and twenty-five and fifty and two hundred and fifty. The Chairman. Dp any other gfanges contribute to that fund ? Mr. Beach. I thiiik there are, but I have not made a memorandum of them. The Chairman. I have no interest in the membership fund unless that membership fund is used as a legislative fund. Mr. Beach. Yes. That is about what it is. It is simply to pro- mote the publicity and the education of the people in regard to postal matters. The Chairman. I hope you understand it is nothing but right that the country should know who is back of it, back of anybody that comes before this committee, and who it is that foots the bills of amy asso- ciation which is represented here. Mr. Beach. Yes. The Chairman. Will you state how many members there are in the league, if you know? M*. Beach. Between two and three hundred. Mr. SuLZER. Put those names in the record. The Chairman. If you wish to do so. Go ahead now, unless some one else desires to ask a questiont Mr. Stjlzer. Put it in the record. (The fist of names referred to is as follows:) American Manufaeturers' Export Association, Fifth Avenue Building, Madison Square, New York City, "to foster foreign trade." The Qorham Co., FiMi Avenue and Thirty-eixth Street, silversmiths. Xh«iEolian Co., 362 Fifth Avenue, musical instruments. Munn & Co., 361 Broadway, publishers. Dodd, Mead & Co., Foiu-th Avenue and Thirtieth Street, publishers. Brentano's, Fifth Avenue and Twenty-seventh Street, publishers. H. H. Jackson, Bridgeport, Conn., book dealer. R. H. Ingersoll & Bro., 45 John Street, watches. International Steam Pump Co., 115 Broadway, New York City, pumps. International Silver Co.,- 9 Maiden Lane, New York City, silversmiths. Theodore B. Starr (Inc.), 206 Fifth Avenue, New York City, silversmiths. Retail Dry Goods Association, 156 Fifth Avenue, New York Cityi department stores. Standard Gauge Steel Co., Beaver Falls, Pa., manufacturers. Worcester Pressed Steel Co., Worcester, Mass., manufacturers. American Oil Cloth Co., 262 Canal Street, manufacturers. Theodore A. Kohn & Sons, 321 Fifth Avenue, New York City, jewelers. The Warner Bros. Co., 225 Fifth Avenue, corset manufacturers. A. H. Sands & Co., 227 Fourth Avenue, New York City, silks. American Gem & Pearl Co., 14 Church Street, New York City, jewelry. G. & A. Wise, 44 West Twenty-first Street, New York City, importers. Sdiwaraenbach, Huber & Co., 42 Broome Street, New York City,' silks. Alfred H. Post, 287 Broadway, New York City, foreign freighti Sidney Blumenthal & Co. (Inc.), 453 Broome Street, New York City, velvets. Burr & Hardwick, 132 Fifth Avenue, New York City, laces and veils. George L. Shuman & Co., 156 Fifth Avenue, New York City. JSope Bros., Twelfth Street and Fourth Avenue, corsets. Louis Metzger & Co., 637 Broadway, New York City, millinery. Hoggson & Pettis Manufacturing Co., New Haven, Conn., hardware. Flatau & Olesheimer Ca., 97 Fifth Avenue, New York City, embroideries. Manufacturers' Association^. Providence, R. L Long, Sperling & Stem, 20 Waverly Place, linings. Ignaz Strauss & Co., 684 Broadway^ New York City, fans. ?:& F. Gttldstohe & Co., 1185-1203 Broadway^ New York City, cloaks and suits. 3110—11 6 82 PARCELS POST. Belding Bros. & Co., 526 Broadway, New York City, silk manufacturers. Geo. W. Cane, 43 East Tenth Street, New York City, manufacturers. Henry B. Frankenberg Co., 457 Broome Street, New York City, yams. Hess, Goldsmith & Co., 239 Fourth Avenue, silks. B. F. Drakenfeld & Co., 27 Park Place, colors. E. Gerli & Co., 52 Greene Street, raw silk. A. A. Van tine & Co., 879 Broadway, importers. H. A. Caesar Co., 50 Union Squaie, New York City, importers. Simon Ascher & Co., 596 Broadway, New York City, knit goods. Gartner Sons & Co., incorporated, 478 Broadway, New York City, ribbons. descent Co., incorporated, 596 Bro^way. Mount & Woodhull, 26 Maiden Lane, diamonds. J. H. & C, K. Eagle, 454 Broome Street, silk manufactiurers. The Chandler Co., Springfield, Mass., manufacturers. L. & E. Stim, 489-493 Bioome Street, importers and commission merchants. Benedict & Warner, 15 Maiden Lane, New York City, precious stones. Fred Butterfield & Co., 725 Broadway, New York City, dry goods. Adolphe Schwob, 170 Broadway, New York City, watch importers. A. Ludeke & Co., 170 Broadway, New York City, precious stones. Winchester & Co., 101 Beekman Street, medicines. C. Dorflinger & Sons, 36 Murray Street, New York City, cut glass. Smith & Kaufman, 569 Broadway, New York City, manufacturers silk ribbons. E. & J. Bass, 610 Broadway, New York City, jewelers. Edward E. Gary Co., incorporated, 30 Church Street, New York City, importers. J. C. & W. E. Powers, 65 Duane Street, New York City, printers. Motion Picture Distributing Co., Ill East Fourteenth Street, New York City, flima. Wendell, Fay & Co., 817 Broadway, New York City, commission merchants. A. H. Rice Co., 103 Fifth Avenue, NewYrrk City, braids. Bennett Manufacturing Co., 175 Broadway, manufacturers. Germainia Importing Co., 41 Union Square, pa;per. Spitzer Bros. & Co., 87 Fifth Avenue, New York: City, laces. Kneipp Linen Mesh Co., 40 East Nineteenth Street, New York City. Power & Allan, incorporated, 170 Broadway, New York City, diamond importers. Solax Co., 147 Fourth Avenue, New York City, film manufacturers. Fellows & Co., 729 Broadway, New York City, collars. Wm. Green, 627 West Forty-third Street, New York City, printing and binding. Susquehanna Silk Mills, 18 West Eighteenth Street, New York City, silk manu- facturers. Lumley & Blumlein, 656-658 Broadway, New York City, hats. H. V. Keep Shirt Co., 15 West Thitry-second Street, New York City, manufacturers. Calisher & Co., 140 West Broadway, New York City, perfumers. Chas. Adler's Sons, 527 Fifth Avenue, precious stones. C. Willenborg & Co., 315 Fourth Avenue, New York City, trimmings. Meyer, Martin & Danda, 144 Grand Street, linens. Clough, Pike & Co., 55-57 White Street, New York City, importers. Stewart Silk Co., 453 Broome Street, silks. Redfield Bros., 311 West Forty-third Street, New York City, printers. T. H. La Fetra, 82 Greene Street, New York City, silks. Stem & Pohly, 67 Greene Street, New York City, silks. Spingam Bros., 636 Broadway, New York City, millinery. Columbia Ribbon Co., Paterson, N. J.; New York oflSce, 11 Washington Place, riboons. Streep, Miller & Kissell, 99-101 Fifth Avenue, New York City, laces. Wells McMaster, 42 East Twenty-second Street, New York City. James Smith & Son (Inc.), 40-42 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn, N. Y., leather goods. R. & H. Simon, Union Hill, N. J., silks and ribbons. Rogers Lunt & Bowlan Co., Greenfield, Mass. The M. H. Pulaski Co., 488 Broadway, New York City, embroideries. Alfred Peats Co., 41 West Fourteenth Street, New York City^ wall paper. Norfolk Hosiery & Underwear Mills Co., 366 Broadway, New York City, manu- facturers. National Blank Book Co., Holyoke, Mass. L. Meyer & Bro., 27 Howard Street, New York City, pearls and jewelry. Max Mayer & Sons, 569 Broadway, New York City, knit goods. Gudebrod Bros. Co., 753 Broadway, New York City, silks. George F. Storm & Co., 409 Lafayette Street, cigars. L. Foreman Fechtman & Co., 48 East Twenty-first Street, New York City, uphol- stery goods. PARCELS POST. 83 Walter W. De Bevoise, 163 Carlton Avenue, Brooklyn, N. Y., confectionery. The Dreyer Hat Co., 19 Waverly Place, New York City, hats. Mark M. Dintenfass, 12 East Fifteenth Street, New York City, Chalmers Knitting Co., Amsterdam, N. Y., knit goods. A. P. Alvord, 12 West Forty-fourth Street, New York City. The Allen-Lane Co., 229 Fourth Avenue, New York City, commission merchants. Davis & Lawrence Co., 10 Christopher Street, New York City, drugs. Post & Sheldon (Corp.), 62 Greene Street, New York City, silk manufacturers. Trow Directory Printing & Bookbinding Co., 201-13 East Twelfth Street, New York City, publishers. George W. Wheelwright Paper Co., 17 West Thirtieth Street, New York City, paper manufacturers. B- F. Allen Co., 365 Canal Street, New York City, drugs. S. E. Horton Machine Co., Windsor Locks, Conn. Allcock Manufacturing Co., 274 Canal Street, New York City. M. Melachrino & Co., 214 West Forty-seventh Street, New York City, Egyptian cigarette. The Brandreth Co., 274 Canal Street, New York City, medicine. W. B. Quaintance, 145 Fifth Avenue, New York City, lace curtains. U. J. Ulery Co., 25 Warren Street, New York City, cutlery. Julius Sternfeld, 114 East Twenty-third Street, New York City, linens. Mathey Bros., Mathez & Co., 15 Maiden Lane, New York City, watches. Mr. Weeks. Has there been any effort to increase the member- ship of the Postal Progress League ? Mr. Beach. Yes, sir. Mr. Weeks. For any length of time ? Mr. Beach. Three or four years. Mr. Weeks. How long has the league been in existence ? Mr. Beach. The league was founded in 1902. It is organized under the laws of Massachusetts. Mr. Weeks. Do you know any other organization that, as an organization, is formed for the purpose of becoming interested in postal legislation and the improvement of the postal service ? Mr. Beach. None of any prominence. The Chairman. Have you a legislative committee ? ' Mr. Beach. Well, the officers are the committee. The Ch-AIRMAN. Are the legislative committee ? Mr. Beach. Yes. The Chairman. Have you any legislative attorneys ? Mr. Beach. I do not Imow that we have. The Chairman. Mr. Cowles is one of the chief actors, one of the chief men in this movement. You are famUiar with him, and really he is the motive power, so to speak. And I, as a pubUc-spirited man, have taken an interest in it for the past three years, behevitig there were possibihties of a vast extension of the postal service to the ben- efit of all the people. Did you answer the question as to your having, legislative attorneys ? Mr. Beach. Mr. Cowles and myself and another gentleman, are a sort of a legislative committee. The Chairman. Excuse us for this interruption. You can go ahead now. Mr. Beach. I would just like to offer a few remarks. Represent- ing the Postal Progress League and the Scientific American, I wish to urge upon this committee the need of Congress providing for an immediate parcels post at a low rate that will bring the producer and the consumer into closer relations with each other and reduce the cost of living; that will also enable aU manufacturers of light goods in thinly settled sections of the country to transport ' what 84 PABCELS POST. they produce to any other part of the country at a uniform rate, regardless of the distance traversed. This is the basic principle of the modern post office as maugurated by Roland HiU of England in 1839. We have prepared and have introduced m the House through the Hon. WiUiam Sulzer, of New York, House bill 14, which fe call the Sulzer bill, and regard it as a. suggestion as to what might be done to extend the parcels post. We think it is capable of improvement' on a more hbferal scale, which can hie carried out by Cdngre&s iii due course. t. t t j j We simply advise that fourth-class matter be abolished and coh- sohdated with third-class at a rate of one-half a cent an ounce or 8 cents a pound; increasing the weight limit from 4 pounds fbr a single package to 11 pounds. The reason of this is that it is similar to the package weight limit now in use by a majority of foreign countries of this worMy and is also of a convenifent weight to handle. The second feature of the bill is the provision for the estabUsh- ment of a rural free dehvery parcels post at a much lower rate, util- izing the rural traveling post office in conveying and distributiBf fight merchandise from the central country store to the residfents along the route, and vice versa, as well as between one resident and another. By substituting swift moving auto-post vehicles in place of the slow-going present-day horse vehicle, a longer route can be sferved, and also the requh'ing of fewer employees Will decrease the cost of operation and increase the net revenue. The third feature is the insurance of ^11 mail matter, a necessity for business reasons which is recognized by all Postal Union nations of the world. A cheap parcel post is no experiment. It has been in use on a large scale over a territory much greater than this country by the British Nation, with the most beneficial results. Great Brit- am has parcels-post treaties with four times as many countries as has the United States, with trade advantages that the United States is deprived of. As a pubfisher I am interested in the transportation of books by mail. We frequently have orders from distant countries with which the United States has no parcels-post arrangement. The only way the order can be billed is by express, which costs as much as the book or books or more. As an iUustration, we will suppose that the set of books weighed 10 pounds, which are to be sent from New York to St. Petersburg, Kussia. We have no parcels -post arrangement with Russia, but Great Britain has. The express rate on 10 pounds from New York to St. Petersburg, Russia, is $2. The express rate on the same parcel to London, England, is 85 cents. The parcels-post rate frOni London to St. Petersburg, Russia, on the same parcel is 72 cents, making a total cost of $1.57, or a 43-cent saving on the through express rate to St. Petersburg. The way this matter is handled is as follows: The package is wrapped with a double set of wrappers. The inner one bears the address of the party in St. Petersburg, to whom it is consigned. The outer wrapper over this bears the address of the party m London. On its defivery by the express company to our agent m London he removes the outer wrapper and places 72 cents' worth of postage PAECELS POST. 85 stamps on the inner wrapper and posts the parcel in the English post office. It is then delivered to the consigned at St- Petersburg at the net saving previously mentioned. The foreign parcels-post rate from Great Britain to many of our Enghsh colonies is at the following uniform rates: 3 pounds for 24 cents, 7 pounds for 48 cents, and 11 poxmds for 72 cents. To Russia and Asia the cost is 96 cents, only, whereas a similar amount of merchandise dispatched by parcels post from Washington, D. C, to Alexandria, Va., is taxed at $1.76 and has to be divided into three parcels. In 1910 the value of merchandise dispatched by the parcels post from England amounted to over $25,000,000. You thus see the fact that the English people actually by this great business made a profit, or made it pay; and we contend that if it can be done in England or in any foreign country of that kind, wherie they do business in an intelligent way, that it is possible for this country to even go better than that and lower the rates. I contend that the fact that Great Britain sends her ll-ppund package to the United States and has it delivered to any part of the United States by the American Express Co. for the sum of 24 cents, which is only a trifle over 2 cents a pound, makes it abso- lutely feasible for the United States post office to transmit the mer- chandise in 11-pound packages to any part of the United States. The Chairman. Just at that point: Where did you say that the American Express Co. could carry packages for 24 cents ? Mr. Beach. The American Express Co. has made a contract with the British post office to deliver any of their packages from 1 pound up to 1 1 pounds to any part of the United States from New York, to wherp it comes by steamer, to any part of the United States, for the snm of 24 cents, or 2 cents a pound — it amovmts reaflly to 2^ cents a pound. The Chaieman. That is a contract that includes all the business that comes from Europe ? Mr. Beaph. I don't know. This is a special arrangement. I do not know liow it is about Germany, but it is a contract, as I under- stand it, with Great Britain — a contract made by Great Britain with the American Express Co. The Chairman. Who made this contract ? Who are the con- tracting parties, the British Government on the one hand and the American Express Co. on the other? Mr. Beach. Yes, sir; that is what I vmderstand. The Chaibman. Does the American Express Co. give such rat,es in the United States as that? Mt. Beach. I doubt whether they do. If they can do that at a profit, it seems to me the United States post office ought to do it ,at a profit if they only charged 8 cents a poxmd, as we are conteiyiing for m this Sulzer bUl; and therefore that was the reason why I stated in the former part of my remarks that the time would probably come when we would have a good deal lower rate than 8 cents a pound with the parcels post. The Chairman. Do you mean to contend that the United States Government could carry its mail — ^its parcel mail — at ^ rate of 2 cents a pound without loss ? 86 PAECELS POST. Mr. Beach. I think it could. I think it could carry it at 1 cent a pound. You see how nice it would be to have the mail at 1 cent a pound. The Chairman. How would they do it ? Mr. Beach. They would do it in this way: Mr. Hitchcock has just announced that he has made arrangements to have second-class mail carried at the rate of third, or one-half a cent a pound; and the publishers pay the post office 1 cent a pound. Therefore, there is 50 per cent of profit on the transportation. The Chairman. Do you mean to say that Mr. Hitchcock has given out that he has made a contract that all second-class mail in the United States is to be carried by the railroad companies at the rate of half a cent a pound ? Mr. Beach. He says- that is what he got. That is what I have seen published in the paper. The Chairman. Well, I am very sorry Mr. Hitchcock has not a representative here. Mr. Beach. That was pubhshed in the papers — that it would be carried by freight. Of course that is the same contention that the pubUshers have always held. The Chadrman. I do not want to be inquisitive, but I would hke to know where you get that information ? Mr. Beach. I simply got it from the public print, a dispatch from Washington; pubHc news. You probably did not see the item. The Chairman. No; I confess I did not see the item. Mr. Beach. Well, I did. I saw it in the paper and I would have cut it out, but I did not know I was going to say anything about it. The Chairman. Did you see it in more than one paper? Mr. Beach. I saw it in one paper. I don't know whether it was the Post or the Mail and Express. It was a New York paper. I will try and get that item for you and send it to you. I think I can. We contend as publishers that a large bulk of mail matter con- signed to certain centers could be carried at a lower rate than 1 cent a pound by the post office, and that there would be no loss if done in that way. ' I contend that it would be so much easier and better to take all the mail matter, all the classifications, and simply bunch them together in one class. The Chairman. May I not ask you this, in order that you may- correct your statement if you are wrong: Is it not true Mr. Hitchcock has given out a statement to this effect — that he sends mail in large quantities Mr. Beach. I said in large quantities. I said in bulk. The Chairman (continuing). To distributing centers? Mr. Beach. That is right. The Chairman. Not to the country, but to distributing centers ? Mr. Beach. That is right. The Chairman. At the rate of one-half a cent a pound ? Mr. Beach. That is right. Mr. Weeks. Is it not true that the sender of the freight delivers it on the car ? Mr. Beach. Yes, that is true. Mr. Weeks. And the receiver takes it from the car ? Mr. Beach. Yes. PARCELS POST. 87 Mx. Weeks. So that the department does nothing except make the rate? Mr. Beach. Yes. Mx. Weeks. And the rate is a raihoad rate, the department having no expense of handMng whatever 1 ■' _# tSfe " W''^ Mr. Beach. Yes, that is right. ^ - kwJ*« The Chairman. Is it not a fact that the same papers published in the different places and carried to these same distributing points ■within a distance of 500 miles would be carried by an express com- pany at a cent a pound ? Mr. Beach. I think they might be carried less than that. The Chairman. They are carried, as a matter of fact, at a cent a pound. Is not the Scientific American carried hj express within a certain radius at 1 cent a pound ? Mr. Beach. Yes, it may be. The Chairman. It is, it it not ? Mr. Beach. Yes ; I think so. The Chairman. Is it not a fact now that in patronizing the mails your pubhcation sends within the shorter distance by express and sends the longer distance by mail ? Mr. Beach. WeU, we supply our subscribers at the second-class rate of 1 cent a pound, the same as do other publications. We send to our nonsubscribers through the news companies, and they dis- tribute. The Chairman. They distribute ? Mr. Beach. Yes, sir; they distribute. The Chairman. You have nothing to do with the transportation 1 Mr. Beach. No. We simply hand a certain number of copies of the paper and they distribute through their various branches through- out the country The Chairman. But you do not know what the railroad companies pay or the express companies as the case may be ? Mr. Beach. I do not know, but the process is that the papers dis- tributed in this way are sent to various news stands in the city and there they are on sale at the news stands for certain periods. Then the news-stand dealers return them to the branches of the American News Co. and the American News Co. send the papers back to us, and we call them "returns." I think we have to pay them at the rate of 2^ cents a pound for the sending back. The Chairman. As a publisher of a paper I want to ask you if you think it is fair to the Government for you to engage in any kind of process of transportation, either direct or indirect, by which your papers are carried within a shorter radius by the express companies, and the longer haul is made by mail ? In other words, that within the distance where it may be carried with profit you furnish it to the express company and beyond the distance where it can be carried at a profit you require the United States Government to carry it at a loss ? Mr. Beach. I call that an apparent loss because you have to base things on general average. The Chaieman. No. I am getting at Mr. Beach (interposiag). As a direct question I submit your sugges- tion might be correct. There would be a loss on the long haul. 88 PABCELS POST. The Chairman. It is fair to the Government, now, to give it the long haul and to give to the express companies the short haul ? Mr. Beach. I do not see the point of that, because the way it is now the mail expense by parcels post is way above the other. The Chairman. I appreciate that, but you are interested m second- class matter more than fourth class. ' I take it from your statement that you are only interested in the parcels-post proposition as a pub- lisher because of the fact you pubhsh books, and you want a reduction from 12 cents to 8 cents. Mr. Beach. Yes. That is right. The Chairman. That is what you are concerned about ? Mr. Beach. Yes. Mr. Weeks. But the book rate is 8 cents ? Mr. Beach. Yes. The Chairman. Then how are you concerned at all ? Mr. Beach. I am concerned more especially with the newspapers. The Chairman. That is what I thought, and that is getting at ithe question. If you are treating the. Government fairly if witnin the shorter distance you send by express and if in the long distance you send by mail. I am not complaining of your doing it. You are doing just hke I would do. Mr. Beach. What I think is so absurd is for a Nation hke us to conduct its postal parcels business in such an old-fashioned way. The Chairman. Let me ask you the question in just a httle difier- ent shape. Would you think it would be right for the Government to demand that you shall send all your publications by mail rather tiian send a part of them by express and a part by mail? Mr. Beach. I think; it would be, generally, yes. The Chairman. You would not complain? Mr. Beach. I would not complaip, no. We would get better service by mail, of course. The Chairman. You have that opportunity now, to seiad either by express or mail ? Mr. Beach. Yes. The Chairman. And big pubhshing companies hke yours are send- ing by express, according to the testimony that has been before this committee heretofore. Mr. Beach. Yes, that is right. I am simply makiog a rather radical statement that I think the time may come when we will get the rates down to 1 cent a pound for all kinds of mail matters — ^letters, Earcels, and everything else. It would simplify the classification usiness in the post office and be of great help to the thousjands flf Eostmasters, because they would have a great deal less pressure rought to bear upon them to see whether this or that would take more postage because it weighs 2 ounces, and so on. The Chairman. Suppose we fixed a universal rate of 1 cent a Eound for all classes of maiJ, first, second, third, and fo,urth, makiflg ut one class, and including the rural delivery, how would the Gov- ernment get the revenue necessary to meet the expenses of the Post Office Department ? Mr. Beach. They could get it just the same as the railroad gets the revenue in transporting this bulk matter for half a cent a pound, by the vast quantity of things that would be transmitted. You PABOELS POST. 89 must not get the notion that everything is going to be very heavy. The percpijtage of weight is very small. The Chairman. There is a wonderful difference — take the letter which is deposited in your bpcs in your home there. It is gathered up by the carrier; it is takeji to the central office. At the central office it is distributed and goes to the railroad; it is distributed in the cars from place to place by the rq,ilway letter carriers, and distributed in other cities by other carriers ; it goes ■ to the country and is dis- tributed by the rural letter carriers. You have not taken in the item of expense in your consideration at all, because the individual who sends puts this mail in the car, and the individual who receives takes the mail from the car. Mr. ^BAGH. Surely. The CHAiRMAsr. Therefore there is no expense tp the Gosrernment whatever. But in the other case here is the expense pf a city letter carrier, a city clerk, a railway mail clerk, the expense tp the railroad company, the expense of the delivery of the mail, and the expense of the rural letter carriers, and all that, included in it. Mr. Beaoh. Of course the whole thing simmers down to the vast C(uantity of mail opaatter that wjU be sent, and therefore you can send it at lower rates if the copt of transportation is the same. The Chaiemast. Then you would take the positipn that the Post CMfice Departnient is wrong in limiting the amount of second-cl^gp matter as it does now, in trying to get out of advertising matter ? Mr. BpACH. Oh, yeg. I think that is the most absurd thing I ever heard of. What is the use of hampering people who want to send nierchandise from one place to another? Anpther advantage is that at the post office you do not have to get a receipt ijniess you want to. You just put .a stamp on ^,nd the thing goes through. There is no delay. I had a very effective case of this kind during the express strike in New York. We had eon- sideri^ble bwsiuess with Washingtpn, ^jtid we had toiserid most of pur stuff by mail because we could not send it by express. I had occa- sion ,to send a package of cuts by express. There was no possible way to send by express because there was a strike. The only wa,y that I could do was to try and send it by xp.a,il, so I sent it by mail. I think I put on postage stamps for the parcel to the amount of about 13 cents- I want/ed to be sure and have this parcel djehvered promptly, so I had a 10-cent special delivery stamp put on it and put the pacakge in rthe post office, and I wrote a postal card at the same time to the consignee asldng him to tell me what time he got this package. He said he got it the &:st ithing in the morning, I think • about 8 o'clock, the same time he got the postal card. There is an example of how the post office, in connection with this special dehvery can carry out the functions of the express in a measijre. The Chairman. You would be in favor of it perforining both the f UHiGtions ? Mr. Beach. Yes, sir. J think it saves tiine. I do not Jmow as I have anything more to say. Mr. Weeks. Mr. Bgaah, the Post Office Departmeat states to Con- gress it CQsts a fjiaction ovejr 12 cents a pound to carry fourjthrplass matter. What have you to say as to that ? 90 PAECELS POST, Mr. Beach. I do not know about that. I think they have not pursued the right way to arrive at it. Of course, the principle of the way they do now about the mails as to the cost is they go at it accord- ing to the weight instead of some other way. Mr. Weeks. Have you any reasons to disprove those figures? Mr. Beach. I have only this reason, that Mr. Hitchcock has re- cently announced that he is carrying second-class mail matter in bulk at the rate of one-half a cent a pound. Mr. Weeks. That is not fair to Mr. Hitchcock, unless you make the full explanation, because that goes in bulk and it goes between distributing centers. Mr. Beach. Yes. Mr. Weeks. Now, it does not distribute itself in the city to which it goes, nor is it distributed m any way or taken up in any way in the city from which it comes. Mr. Beach. Yes. Mr. Weeks. The person sending it puts it in the car, and the per- son receiving it takes it out of the car. The expense to the Govern- ment, if you have carefully analyzed it, is made up in postmaster's expense. It costs more than a cent a pound to pay the postmasters of the United States. In the city clerks there is more than a cent more. In the city letter carriers there is more than a cent more; and in the rural letter carriers there is nearly 2 cents more, when you come to take the amount of mail that is handled and the whole expenditure for carrying the mail and disposing of the mail within a year. Mr. Beach. Yes; I understand. At the same time, aU those ex- tra expenses Mr. Weeks (interposing) . Those are necessary; those are not extra. Mr. Beach. Well, call them all necessary. Mr. Weeks. You must have a postmaster. Mr. Beach. They are aU met by the increased revenue that is obtained from the first-class matter. Mr. Weeks. How will there be any increase revenue if the business is done for less than it costs to do it ? Mr. Beach. Because you charge for first-class matter five times more than you do on other matter. The Chairman. You suggested that ought to be carried at a cent a pound ? Mr. Beach. Certainly. I think we are going to have 1-cent letter postage, too. The Chairman. Maybe I misunderstood you. You said aU classes ought to be carried at a cent a pound ? Mr. Beach. I said the time might come; but that the people were not educated up to it now. When the post office gets to adopting efficient and mechanical machinery and methods of conducting its business, as other dry goods concerns do, we may be able to effect some economy in handling the mails. That is where the cent-ar pound rate will be profitable for all classes of matter. The Chairman. If it costs 1 cent a pound to pay the postmasters, how are you ever going to get the cost to 1 cent ? Mr. Beach. Because you have so many more million packages and letters sent. PARCELS POST. 91 The Chairman. That increases the postmasters' pay in certain towns ? Mr. Beach. I don't care how it does. It is a self-evident business proposition. If you have machinery to carry your mails and you carry the mails on the basis of some other method of paying the railroads than by weight, and the Government pays the railroads so much for carrying the cars over the tracks The Chairman (interposing). We pay the railroad companies less than 3 cents a pound for their part of the service. Suppose you figure that all out. Then, if the post ofHce is correct, it would cost 9 cents a pound otherwise. How are you going to get in these other expenses ? Leave the transportation out. Mr. Beach. You overcome the supposed loss by the increased income that you get from high-rate postage. The Chairman. If you carry every pound at a loss, the more pounds you carry the greater the loss. Mr. Beach. Yes, I understand; but having it based on 1 cent a pound, it means 1 cent and a fraction a pound. Of course that would include aU letters. A majority of the mail matter would be letters. Mr. Weeks. Would the majority in weight be letters, in your opinion ? Mr. Beach. Yes; it would, I think. Mr. Weeks. Do you think the third-class rate should be lowered ? Mr. Beach. Could be lowered ? Mr. Weeks. Should be lowered. * Mr. Beach. I think it would certainly be right to lower it. Mr. Weeks. You think it should be lowered ? Ml'. Beach. I won't say it now, but I think when the Government or the Post Office Department gets the proper machinery to handle mail matter and everything in an economic way, then it might be. Mr. Weeks. Do you think the Post Office Department is well or badly managed as it is now managed ? Mr. Beach. I think in large cities it is not managed as economically as it could be. Mr. Weeks. In what way? Take your own city. In what way do you think the service could be improved ? Mr. Beach. I think it could be improved by employing a larger number of automobile vehicles. Mr. Weeks. But we have in New York the pneumatic-tube service, as well as the automobile service. We have both services there. Mr. Beach. Yes ; that is right. Mr. Weeks. For what purpose would you employ additional automobiles ? Mr. Beach. I can say that in New York, as a matter of fact, you can hardly depend on sending a letter to Harlem in the morning and getting an answer back before afternoon. Mr. Weeks. Do you tfdnk that could be improved on ? Mr. Beach. It certainly could. Mr. Weeks. My impression is that New York has an excellent postmaster. Mr. Beach. I think they have; there is no doubt about it. Mr. Weeks. And a man who is extremely anxious to improve the service wherever it can be done. Have you ever called his attention 92 PABCBLS POST. to any way in wliich the service in which you are interested could be improved ? Mr. Beaoh. No; I have not. Mr. Weeks. Don't you think that would be a busines^likp w^jal appro?iching that particular matter ? Mr. Beach. I certainly do; but I supposed he had not ajqithority to do that. Mr. Weeks. A great deal of authority. He can get it. Wp are not an administrative body. Wp are a legislative body; and the place to go with that kind of complaint is to the adminiatrapon. I feel justified in saying tlxat the postmaster at New York would be glad to take up any businesslike suggestion you might make jp regard to facilitating the mail service in th^t city. You have suggested consolidating the fourth and third class rates. There are just as many sijggestions from users of third-class ratje^for a reduction in third-class rates as there are for a reduc|;ion In );]b^ fourth-class rate. Mr. Beach. I suppose there are. Mr. Wee?:s. Suppose the committee should find that the §tp,t^eiit made by the department is correct, to the effect that it costs 12 an^a fraction cents to carry a pound qi fourth-class rriail. Do you tMnk we would be justified in making an 8-cent rate like that ? Mr. Beach. An 8-cent rate ? Mr. WpEKS. Yes; or a rate which would show loss of sopiething over 4 cents a pound on every pound transported ? Mr. Beach. 0/ course, if we base it pn the present methO|ds of handling mail matters, it may. show a loss, but the loss would bepiade up, as I have always said, from the vast number of first-class postage. Mr. Weeks. That is a supposition, is it not? Mr. BpACH- Oh, no. It is an actual fact, because here we havejt in England. They transport I don't know how many thousajiii? of mail packages. Mr. Weeks. Don't you understand that the conditions ija Englp(i are entirely different from what they ,are in this country ? Mr. Beach. Not a bit. We ought to be better than England. Mr. Weeks. If we were to pay the postnjiasters eraployed iw (this country the same rate as they pay in England, w.e w6ui,d .savjB sop $60,000,000 a year. How are you going to overcome that? Mr. Beach. How do they overcome it ? Mr. Weeks. By paying lower rates. Do you advocate paying employees of the postal service a lower rate ? Mr. Beach. Pay them a big rate. Mr. Weeks. Dp you advocate paying them a lower rate ? Mr. Beach. No. Mr. Weeks. How could we save that differenqe? Mr. Beach. We cpuld save it by having our jp^U. Vfis-ttpf han^lsd in a more efficient way. Mr. Weeks. In what way would you handle it more efficiently jtjian through human agency, and how are you going to supply the huipan agency at a lower rate unless you reduce wages ? Mr. Beach. You won't have to reduce wages. Mr. Wepks. Well, how are you goifl-g to do it? Mr. Beach. Why, simply make jthe ra^e so that you wM ^^ " y9.st number of people who want to use the mails, more than ypu do now. PAHOELS POST. 93 Mr. Weeks. Do jbu know personally any person whb doefe not, fbr instance, mail a letter on account of the' rate, or writs a letter on account of the rate ? Mr. BeACh. I don't know of any one. Mr; Weeks. It never deterred yo"u from aiiiy business uridertaking you had in mind ? Mr: Beach. No. Mr. Weeks. And you do not knbw anybody that it ever deterred ? Mr. Beach. I don t know, except I ItnOw that merchandise would be k different thing. The rate is very high, of course, for mei-chah- dise. Mr. Weeks. The rate is high because the department reports to Gbrigress it costs 12 and a fraction cents a pound. Rfc. Beach. They reported it was impossible to carry seCond-class matter eibept at a loss. Mr. Weeks. That is not quite correct. Now, I don't want to do the Postmaster General an injustice, nor do you, but the department reports it costs a certain price to carry second-class matter. This cdifiihittee has suggested two or three times that in the delivery of certain classes of second-class mail, where the pubHfcation takes place in such a way that it can be dehvered several days before the date which it should be received by the subscriber, that the transportation be by freight. Heiretofore that has been transported as has all other mail, but now it is proposed to send to a certain distributing point this mail by freight, and publishers have stated to this committee, and have recently stated to the department — I presume you have done it yourself — that you could publish your paper or your maga- zine three or four days earlier, giving the department that additional time in order to distribute in that way. But that has nothing what- ever to do with the handhng of the mails, and the cost of handling the mails is, in rbund numbers, four-fifths of the total cost of the mail service. That dbes not cost the department anything. Mr. Beach. If we handle the mail where it is dehvered to the depot, so that it could be transmitted by mechanical power directly from the truck that brings it to the car^ Mr. Weeks (interposing) . Well, that is exactly what we are doing in New York Citj^. We are instalhng now in the up-town station of the Pennsylvania Railroad mechanical equipment so that the mail can be delivered directly from the truck into the car. That is the first opportimity the department has had to do that. Undoubt- edly it will do the same thing in the New York Central station, because that station is so located that that can be done. But it has hot been possible heretbfore. The department is not losing any tiine in taking advantage of those faciHtieS. Mr. Beach. I understand. Mr. WteEKs. Now, you have referred to the foreign mail service — the questibn of carrying a foreign package weighing 11 pounds at 12 cents a pound. I am perfectly frank to say that on its face it does not make a good showing when we charge 16 cents for a local package ahd 12 cents a pound for a foreign package. But aU these mail ti-eaties are b'ftsed on other propositions than carrying so much fourth-class matter. There are a great many other matters that are tiakeh into consideration. That is riot the bhly consideration, and there has never been any statement by anybody that you 94 PAEOELS POST, could take a package from London, England, and deliver it in Chi- cago at 12 cents a pound because the probabilities are that you can not do it. We do it because we have made a treaty to that effect, but the question of cost was not taken into account in mak- ing a treaty carrying that class of mail at that price. We have to conform to some things that our neighbors do. Mr. Beach. Yes, sir; I know. I simply enunciate it as a general principle that I think the time will come The Chairman (interposing). With conditions existing, would you combine the third and fourth class rates? Would you make the third and fourth classes as one class 1 Mr. Beach. That was the idea. The Chairman. But would you fix the rate at 12 cents a pound? Mr. Beach. No ; 8 cents a pound. The Chairman. Then, you would expect the Government to lose 4 cents ? Mr. Beach. That is for you to say. I do riot think the Govern- ment would lose it. The Chairman. Well, the Government says it does. The Govern- ment ought to know whether it does or does not. Mr. SuLZER. The Government would not do it if it was carrying all the business. Mr. Beach. No. Mr. SuLZER. That is the question. Mr. Beach. It would not lose if it was carrying the business. The more business the more revenue. The Chairman. If on every pound it carried at 8 cents a pound it lost 4 cents, why, then, the fewer pounds carried the better. Mr. Beach. Yes ; I understand. The Chairman. Because the loss would be the less. Mr. Beach. The less would be of advantage to the party who wanted to send the goods if you restrict the rates. Mr. Gregg. Mr. Chairman, is there a loss on first-class matter ? Tne Chairman. No. Mr. SuLZER. Do you know the reason why ? Mr. Gregg. I was asking the chairman if it was so. Mr. Stjlzer. Well; there is none, because the Government does it all; and there would not be a loss on any other business if the Govern- ment did it all. Mr. Gardner. Those facts have no relation to each other. There is no loss on fourth-class matter, because it pays from 16 cents a pound up. Mr. Weeks. Let me ask you one more question. I think it is probable that every Member of Congress wishes to be instrumental in giving the people of the coimtry the best possible postal service within reasonable bounds. Those reasonable bounds must be largely financial. Now, would you, if you were in our places, be in favor of establishing a service on a basis which you felt sure would not give a new dollar to the Government for the one expended ? Mr. Beach. I think that has not very much to do with. it. Mr. Weeks. Well, we have to provide for the running of this Government some way, somehow; and if there is a deficit in one department we have to raise the money somewhere else. The correct theory of the Post Office Department would be it should exactly pay expenses. PAK.OBLS POST. 95 Mr. Beach. I do not think that is so. I think there could be some deficit. Mr. Weeks. How much deficit, if you were responsible for running the Government, would you be willing to stand for ? Mr. Beach. I believe it has been stated there has been a deficit of something lik6$17,000,000 in the Post Office Department on account of rural free delivery, and without any change of rates that, I am told, has been made up. But th^re was a cise where Congress made the law that the rural people should only carry little packages and letters and papers — only 25 pounds' worth. Mr. Weeks. Don't you know that Congress is constantly criticized by the people and by the press for its extravagance ? Mr. Beach. Yes. Mr. Weeks. Do you think we are justified in incurring obhgations for a department which will not be met by receipts ? Mr. Beach. I do, so far as the Post Office Department is concerned; because that is a general exchange of business between all the people. Mr. Weeks. What would be your hmit as to the amount of deficit we could properly incur ? ' Mr. Beach. I should think on an experiment we could easily calcu- late twenty million. Mr. Weeks. Take myself, for instance. I have no mail except first-class mail, or very Httle. You have other grades of mail. Do you think it is right for me to be taxed an excessive rate on my first- class mail in order to pay a deficit incurred in carrying your lower grade mails ? Mr. Beach. I do not think so ; no. Mr. Weeks. You would not believe in our doing that ? Mr. Beach. No. Mr. Weeks. Then if we reduce the rate on first-class mail, which pays a large profit, necessarily we would incur a greater deficit in the department, even if we do not reduce the rate of other classes of mail ? Mr. Beach. I do not think we would, because there would be so much more correspondence on the 1-cent rate. Mr. Weeks. But you have not indicated to us anyone who does not use first-class mail whenever it is necessary for hun to do it, on account of the cost. Mr. Beach. No. Mr. Weeks. You say you never do it, and you never heard of anybody that did ? Mr. Beach. No; I have always paid what the rate was. I never considered the saving there would be in reducing it from 2 cents to 1. Mr. Weeks. You would have no objection, personally, or as the representative of the Postal Progress League, to making experi- ments, and comprehensive experiments, as to the cost of carrying fourth-class mail over rural routes and in other ways ? Mr. Beach. No ; I would not have any. Mr. Weeks. Would not that be about the method you would follow in your business, if you were going to institute a new policy ? Mr. Beach. It might be; yes. Mr. Weeks. It would be? Mr. Beach. It would be; yes. Mr. Weeks. Then you think if we did the business-like method, we would experiment and be sure of our ground before we took any very radical action, would you not? 96 PABCBLS POST. Mr. Beach. That might be so; but if you proceed without regard to any improvements that will be made in the transportation of mail service, and simply base your estimate on the old-fashioned ways that have been pursued by the Post Office Department here, you would ■ not have the experiments, the experiments having all been made by other people ? Mr. Weeks. I presume you have not at hand the suggestions which you would naturally make to the department for an improve^ ment in the conduct of its service ? That is not something to be made to us at all. Mr. BEACiB. I understand. Mr. Weeks. Now, they are using, you say, unbusinesslike method's,- and you have suggestions to make which would improve that service. Won't you take the trouble to inform the department, and send us a copy of your information, so that we may see that the dfejpartinent, if possible, carries out the improvements which you suggest, provided they were improvements ? Mr. Beach. Certainly; provided they are improvements. I think some efficient engineers could be of great assistance. Mr. Weeks. I am quite in accord with you that efficient engineers can be of assistance to almost any business. Mr. Gardner: I am sorry I was not here when ycru begflffl. When I came in I heard you say that the conditions ought to be better here. I supposed by "better" you meant cheaper than in Eiigland. I want to get your reasons for that. Mr. Beach. The reason is that we ought to have quicker service, and we ought to have our mail carried m a more expeditious way; that is, beyond the railroads. Mr. Gardner. You are speaking outside of the thought in- our minds. We are after the expense, because, after aU, that is the test of extension. We have a country 3,000 miles up and down it and they have one 400 miles: Now, the average haul must be longer. How can we get it cheaper, even if a dollar here is equivalent to a dollar there ? Mr. Beach. The rural routes you can equip with auto post wagons, just as I have indicated in my remarks. Mr. Gardner. Would that cheapen it ? Mr. Beach. It certainly would, because the auto routes could be longer than the present routes, and they could go faster than the present vehicles and carry a larger quantity of matter without any more effort. Mr. Weeks. Do you own an automobile ? Mr. Beach. I do; yes. Mr. Weeks. Do you find it is less expensive to run an automobile the same number of mUes than it was to run a pair of horses and a wagon ? Mr. Beach. It was less. Mr. Weeks. Less expensive ? Mr. Beach. Yes, sir. Mr. Gardner. Independent of that, have you any idea of the proportion of the roads in this country that are in a condition, the year through, for power running? Mr. Beach. No; I don't know. I have h6ard it stated that olily about one-third of the roads are in conditioh for automobiles. PARCELS POST, 97 Mr. Gardner. Power wagons require the roads. Now, the coun- try has not got the roads. Mr. Beach. Well, there is something else coming, you know. There is what we call the air machines, where we do not have to have any roads, and where the transportation would be the cheapest yet. We would not have to have any rubber tires. We are having illustrations every day of the aeroplane going long distances. Mr. Gardner. I shall be glad to see that time, but it is not wise to make a postal rate based upon it. Mr. Beach. It is a little early just now. We have to go through a scheme of education. That is the only way I see. We do not want to stick to old methods. Mr. Gardner. No; we do not. A campaign of education is what is needed, if anyone can bring forward suggestions that will work out, Mr. Beach. Yes. Mr. Gardner. Anything with an arithmetical basis. Mr. Beach. Certainly; something that is practical. Mr. Gardner. Yes. Mr. Beach. That everybody can understand, and that will show the results. I appreciate that. Mr. Stjlzer. I introduce as the next speaker, gentlemen, Mr. E. W. Bloomingdale, of New York City, representing the retail dry goods merchants. STATEMENT OF MR. E. W. BIOOMINGDAIE. Mr. Bloomingdale. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am not vain enough to think that I can add either to your technical or economical knowledge on the subject of post offices and post roads, but I have come here mainly to put upon the record the indorsement of those whom I represent of the large retail houses of New York, in favor of this progressive legislation. The Chairman, ^^ora. do you represent ? Mr. Bloomingdale. I shall give a list of those whom I represent to the secretary, and I will also read that list : E. H. Macy & Co., Simpson Crawford Co., B. Altman & Co., Greenhut'Siegel-Cooper Co., Rothenberg & Co., O'Neill-Adams Co., James McCreery & Co., Lord & Taylor, Saks & Co., Gimbel Bros., J. L. Kesner, Abraham & Strauss, A. D. Matthews & Sons, A. I. Namm & Son, H. C. F. Koch & Co., Bloomingdale & Bros., "Cammeyer," Stern Bros., National Cloak & Suit Co., and The Fourteenth Street Store. By a telegram received this morning, I am also authorized to appear for the Associated Retailers of St. Louis. That telegram is signed by Mr. F, C. Lake, of that city, in which is the organization he represents, and which consists of, T think, 60 of the largest retail stores in St. Louis selling general merchandise, I will read that telegram : Please represent this association at the hearing as in favor of pareels post and the Sulzer bill. Our oisanization is 60 of the largest retail stores in St. Louis, selling dry goods, carpets, furniture, hardware, house furnishings, shoes, drugs, groceries, and all line of merchandise. The Chairman. Does that telegram give the names of the parties whom he represents ? 3110—11 — -7 98 PAECELS POST. Mr. Bloomingdale. No, sir. It rives the name of the secretary, but I am not personally familiar with the membership of the organi- zation. However, we have been in correspondence with them, and I know the fact to be that they represent substantial and important commercial interests in that city. The Chairman. Can you mention any of the firms that are repre- sented in that telegram ? Mr. Bloomingdale. I do not know them personally at all. The correspondence has been had through the secretary of the association, and, if you desire, I will get you a list of them. The Chairman. I am not particular about that. Mr. Bloomingdale. I would hke to have had the telegram show who are represented by Mr. Lake, but they, as we, desire toput our- selves on record as ia favor of this parcels post. Of course, in saying that, we say it with this hmitation: We know that you are not going to recommend any bill unless, in your good judgment, there wiUbe a foimdation in sound government and in sound economy for carrying out the provisions wmch you do. That is, we do not come before you ~ in a wild, fantastical way, and say, "Do this," whether it is going to cost $10,000,000, $50,000,000, or $100,000,000, even though the cost may be out of all proportion to the service. We do not ask that, but we ask this, because we believe that it can be done within a reasonable cost. That it will add some cost to the postal service we have no doubt, but we beheve earnestly that the additional cost will be justified by the additional service to the people, by bringing them in closer touch with the metropolitan markets, and by bringing their products at lower prices, represented by the different cost of the proposed postal service and the express routes to the consumer. That is what I desire to say, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. Do you represent the general retail stores ? Mr. Bloomingdale. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Do you represent any mail-order house ? Mr. Bloomingdale. One of the firms on that list is a mail-order house, the National Cloak & Suit Co. It does an exclusively mail- order business, and several of the others, perhaps four or five of them, do a catalogue business in connection with their regular retail local stores; that is, they issue a catalogue and receive orders by mail. The Chairman. Would you recommend to this committee that it should so change the law as to fix a rate so that the Government would meet with a loss in carrying the mails ? Mr. Bloomingdale. I see no reason why the Government should not make a loss, provided that loss represents a service to the people. The Government is doing things all the time that represents a loss for the general betterment of the conditions of our people. I do not see why they should not do so in this instance if 90,000,000 people can be brought into closer contact with the market in which they want to trade. The Chairman. Do you think there is any good reason why the United States Government should carry your packages to your con- sumers at a loss ? Mr. Bloomingdale. The United States Government is not car- rying our packages; they are carrying their packages, the packages of the people who get the goods. There is a mail-order concern in PARCELS POST. 99 Chicago, I understand by hearsay, that is not in favor of this postal service, for the reason that they issue a tremendous number or cata- logues and do a very large business, but on practically all of their business the consignee pays the charges, so that, of course, whether the charges are large or small, their business is not dependent on the price. Their customer directly pays the price. The Chairman. That is Montgomery, Ward & Co. ? Mr. Bloomingdale. No; that is another firm. Mr. Gregg. Sears-Eoebuck ? Mr. Bloomingdale. I think so. As I say, that is hearsay. I have no authority for it. Now, whether the purchaser pays the catalogue price and cost of transportation in addition, or whether the cost of transportation is added to the original price, in pajdng the price for the articles he is paying then indirectly the price, and it makes no difference. We are not paying the money. He is. The Chairman. Do you think there is any moral or legal reason or any other reason why the United States Government should carry your [)ackage, which you have sold to your customer, to his home at a OSS? Mr. Bloomingdale. Perhaps I do not quite understand you, or Eerhaps I did not make myself clear. I claim that when a purchase as been made, it is no longer our package. The Chairman. I said the package which you sold to your cus- tomer. Mr. Bloomingdale. The United States Government is now doing that very thing for the publishers in third-class matter. The Chairman. Is that a reason why the Government should carry the package which you sell at a loss ? Mr. Bloomingdale. If you admit that there is a reason why they should carry the third-class package. Tiie Chairman. That is another and not an entirely undisputed proposition. I am speaking of the merits of your proposition here, that the Government should carry the merchandise to the customer at a loss. Mr. Bloomingdale. With absolute respect, Mr. Chairman, I think that if the loss of the Government is represented- by the saving of the whole people, that if the purpose of the Government is to serve all the people, and, incidentally, in the rendering of the service, there is a loss, it seems to me that there is no reason why the Government should not undertake The Chairman. Then, on the same principle, the Government ought to carry the package free, because that would better serve the purpose. Mr. Bloomingdale. That, perhaps, is reductio adsurdum. The Chairman. Not necessarily. On the same general principle, in the Government rendering a service, if you admit it is right for the Government to carry a package at a loss, I do not care how small, you have to admit the principle that it should carry it absolutely free. Mr. Bloomingdale. May I qualify that by saying that if the Gov- ernment, with the present statistics at their command, should show a loss, the business would develop by a reduction of the cost, just as Lq the other classes of mail matter, so as to wipe out the loss. 100 PABCELS POST. The Chairman. As a good business man, you would not advocate the Government, or any private individual, transacting any kind of business at a loss ? Mr. Bloomingdale. I think the Government sometimes has to take governmental functions without seeing immediately that the return is going to cover the outlay. The Chairman. Yes; but it does not have to carry the merchandise that way. Mr. Bloomingdale. Well, it is not merely the carrying of mer- chandise; it is the rendering of service to the people who get the merchandise. The Government is now carrying on a rural delivery at a great loss, not to accommodate those persons who send their things out over rural delivery, but to accommodate those who live along the rural routes and to enable them to have the mail matter brought to them. But we do not regard that as a loss. The Chairman. You certainly would not regard that as a loss, would you; because, according to reports that nave been sent out, we have no loss this year. There is no loss anywhere. Mr. Bloomingdale. If you are going to divide the post-office business into these departments, that particular loss in that particu- lar department has been covered up by the profit in the entire de- partment. The Chairman. That is getting at the point I want to raise. Why is it your merchandise should be carried at a loss by the Gov- ernment and your letters should be carried at a very great profit to the Government ? Why should not your letter be earned at a loss as well as the package ? Mr. Bloomingdale. Perhaps the time is coming when the letter will be carried without any particular profit, when the other de- partments of the postal service will be self-supporting, and it will not be necessary for the first-class matter to make up the deficit. The Chairman. If we had penny postage, it would be carried at a profit. Mr. Bloomingdale. If we had penny postage, it would still be car- ried at a profit, and part of that profit would oe absorbed in making up the loss in other classes of matter which are necessarily carried at a loss ; but there is compensation for that in the service given to the people generally. The Chairman. If I understand you, taking it all together, you would not recommend to the committee that we reduce the fourth- class rate to such a point where the Government would have to carry that class of maU at a loss. Mr. Bloomingdale. Standing by itself? The Chairman. Yes. Mr. Bloomingdale. I should say that even if the present condi- tion of the business indicated that there might be a present loss on it, that the service to the people would justify making the experiment, at least to see whether the development of it could not cover up the loss and make it self-supporting. The Chairman. There is no one who claims, as I understand it, that the fourth-class mail is carried at a loss. Everybody admits that there might be a reduction of the fourth-class mail rate and still do the business at a profit. The Post Oflace Department esti- mates that the cost is a little over 12 cents. PARCELS POST. 101 Mr. Bloomingdale. Yes. The Chairman. Now, a IS-cent rate, according to the Govern- ment, would yield a slight profit to the Government m carrying fourth- class matter. _ Mr. Bloomingdale. I was speaking of a loss from the point of view proposed now in the bill under discussion, as shown by the rate there. The Chairman. The 8-cent rate ? Mr. Bloomingdale. Yes. I supposed you were speaking of a loss to be represented in that. The Chairman. Yes. Mr. Bloomingdale. I should say this, that if at the inception the amount of business would represent a loss, I see no reason to think that the development of that business and its increase would result in no loss, or it might even be self-supporting. The Chairman. It might be that by encouraging the first-class rate that the fourth class or third class might encourage the first class ? Mr. Bloomingdale. And increase it. The Chairman. Increase the first class ? Mr. Bloomingdale. Yes. The Chairman. I mean the use of the amount of the first-class mail? Mr. Bloomingdale. I understand they increase and stimulate the use of the first-class mail, and thus make a contribution to it. It is not ascertainable, but we know it must be very large. We have one of the stores upon the list of houses whom I represent that has a yearly expenditure for mail matter of $600,000. Every transaction that they have represents at least one letter, a first-class piece of mail com- ing to them, and their expenditure is represented by the first-class maU that they send out; second, by the catalogues issued; and, third, by such parts of their merchandise as they are permitted under the present regulations to send by mail. A very large part of their busi- ness they are not able to send by mail at all on account of weight and size of the package being regulated by the postal regulations, so that here is a concern which now spends $600,000, a very large proportion of which is represented by first-class mail matter, outside of that com- ing to them, that which does not emanate from them, which is not ascertainable from the bulk of their business, but which is an incoming business to them and which results in an outgoing business in which is involved that expenditure. Mr. Gardner. The correspondence they receive, as well as that which they send in relation to that business ? Mr. Bloomingdale. Yes, sir. Mr. Gardner. There is a class of correspondence going on in the country which is social, personal, friendly, correspondence among relatives, and so on, which has no relation to business whatever. Mr. Bloomingdale. A vast part of it. Mr. Gardner. A vast part of it. Mr. Bloomingdale. Ytiu ask me to say that a great deal of first class finds its end in itself, that it does not lead up to any business in the other rates of postage ? Mr. Gardner. Exactly. Mr. Bloomingdale. Yes, sir. 102 pabcbijS post. Mr. Gardner. And the profits of that matter are consumed in the losses on business, including this letter postage. _ Mr. Bloomingdale. I think that proposition is so abstract that I would not like to answer it. c ■ ^ Mr. Gardner. That is not abstract; it is a simple matter of anth- metic. You have an aggregate income. Now, you have a vast amount of first-class matter that has no relation to business whatever, the profits on which disappear in the general mail service. The losses must be in the other classes. Mr. Bloomingdale. When I said that would be very abstract, I meant to say that there is no way to ascertain what the proportion of first-class matter was and how much of it is represented in business done in the other classes of mail, and how much of it finds its finality in the first-class mail. Mr. Gardner. But whatever that is, the profit of it is consumed m the balance of the mail business. Mr. Bloomingdale. That depends on its volume entirely. Mr. Gardner. It does not matter whether it is a dollar or a million, because it takes the income to pay the output. Mr. Bloomingdale. I am trying to say that if there is enough of it, then the profit on that would pay for the losses on the other schedules. I do not know what proportion of first-class mail finds its fijiality in the first-class schedules. Mr. Gardner. But it is not a matter of the proportion. Whatever there is of it is consumed in the losses on the other mail. Mr. Bloomingdale. Well Mr. Gardner. As lon^ as there is no surplus. Mr. Bloomingdale. I am afraid I can not answer that. The Chairman. Wliy do the big retail stores want the parcels post ? Mr. Bloomingdale. Because we think it will stimulate business; because we think there is a real demand for it. The Chairman. To stimulate business where ? Mr. Bloomingdale. At all centers, small centers, not only in the great stores of New York, but in the centers all over the country. We think that it will bring the people .living in rural communities in nearer touch with the market, and will enable them to reach markets which are now unavailable to them; and if I can perceive where your question is leading to, I should say it would mean this, that among your constituents all of them will have available, and they can take advantage of that fact if they like, the markets of the great metro- politan cities, and they will not be compelled to pay the larger charges which they are now compelled to pay in the local stores, under tne present postal service. The Chairman. What will be the effect on the country stores ? Mr. Bloomingdale. I think, perhaps, it would take some business from the country store; I think, perhaps, it would bring some business to the country store. I think the country merchant would take advantage of the lower cost in getting his.goods. He would get some advantage in that direction. I think this, that in the constituency which you represent, among the 200,000 constituents in your district, if there are 500 storekeepers, or 1,000 storekeepers, it does seem to me as though the 199,000 other people in your district are entitled to some consideration as against the interests of the few that may — I do PAECELS POST. 103 not think they will — but may be affected if this great boon to the people of the entire country should be given or can be given. Mr. Lafean. Would it not ultimately lead to the destruction of the country merchant ? Mr. Bloomingdale. I think it would not, for this reason, that there are so many things that the person who buys wants to see and handle. The woman who buys the things she uses daUy is not a ready correspondent. She is not able to know just where to get the S articular thing she wishes, and she can not send to Boston or Phila- elphia or Chicago for a dozen needles or spools of cotton, and one thing and another. The Chairman. You are aware that she does do that, are you not ? Mr. Bloomingdale. She does it to a very limited degree. The country storekeeper still supphes the great wants of people Kving in his immediate neighborhood, and he would continue to do so. The writing of a letter, particularly if it contains an order for goods, is a great undertaking to a number of people in this country, Mr. Chair- man. You have met them, and I have met them. It is a thing they approach with a great deal of awe. They do not know how to express themselves. I have personally engaged in business where we did a considerable mail-order business. You would be amazed at the wonderful exhibition of the lack of abiUty to carry on correspondence by people who send orders for merchandise. We have received liter- ally thousands of letters which omitted to give the addresses of the persons sending them, and which left off the name of the person writ- ing the letter. I know of occasions where letters have been written to the chief of pohce of New York asking what sort of a fake concern this was that had taken their money and never sent a response to their letters. The police department would send up to see what the trouble was, and we would have to search out and find the letters and that would be the first intimation we had as to whom the letter came from. There is going to be a very considerable increase in the mail-order business, but there is not going to be that avalanche of it in the rural communities. Everybody is not going to forsake his local store. The Chairman. But it will be of great benefit to the retail stores of the city. Mr. Bloomingdale. And it will be of very much greater benefit to the buyer throughout the country. He will be able to get what he wants. The Chairman. Is there anything further ? Mr. Weeks. Did I understand you correctly in saying that all those houses you represent are mail-order houses ? Mr. Bloomingdale. No, sir; I said but one of them is strictly a mail-order house. Mr. Weeks. Do they all do some mail-order business ? Mr. Bloomingdale. Three or four of them, I think, issue cata- logues, and some of them do a mail-order business, but their mail- order business is incidental to their general business. By "inci- dental" I mean that it is not nearly as much in volume as their business over the counter. Mr. Weeks. How do you deliver your sales made into suburban sections — in your own wagons or by contract ? 104 PABOELS POST. Mr. Bloomingdale. By our own wagons. There is no uniform practice. Some have their own wagons and some contract it. Mr. Weeks. Do you know what the rates are where the contracts are made ? Mr. Bloomingdale. No; I do not. Mr. Weeks. You have not had any personal experience as to that? Mr. Bloomingdale. I have no personal knowledge. Mr. Weeks. Do you think the Government could afford to com- pete with deUveries under that system, which prevails in all large centers? Mr. Bloomingdale. Speaking of the immediate vicinity of New York, I should not' think the Government would get an opportunitv to dehver that matter. It would be very expensive and very much more troublesome, and would involve much more delay to make that suburban delivery by post than it would by our own wagons. It would involve packing and a great deal of labor that would be inci- dental to sending it out by mail that we do not have now in putting it into our own wagons and having delivery made by our own em- ployees. Mr. Weeks. Then you do not wish to have the Government engage in local deliveries of that sort ? Mr. Bloomingdale. That refers only to local deliveries near New York. I do not know that that same condition would obtain in Buffalo or other cities where they may not have as comprehensive a local delivery as most of the stores in New York. And, indeed, aU the stores in New York do not have the system I speak of. I am mentioning now the system employed by many of the very large stores. A great many of the smaller stores, ho doubt, would use it for making local deliveries where the business was not of sufficient volume to justify the employment of horses and wagons of their own. Mr. Weeks. Then, your argument would be that the adoption of a system such as this would develop the smaller store. Mr. Bloomingdale. In the particular instance you refer to, Mr. Weeks, I think the small stores would be more prone to take advantage of it than the larger ones, who now have facilities which are probably superior to those which would be afforded by the Government. Mr. Gardner. That same principle would work here, would it? The difficulty is in second-class matter, that the larger shippers give the Government the long haul and take advantage of conditions to deprive the Government of the short haul. That is the same principle is it not ? Mr. Bloomingdale. What Mr. Weeks has just spoken of I do not think is the short haul, or any haul. It is practically a metropoUtan delivery. Let me say this : The delivery I had in mind, and which I think Mr. Weeks referred to, was this: Take the New York stores which dehver within a radius of 30 or 35 miles. They dehver, for ex- ample, to Mount Vernon, Mount Casco, Yonkers, and Riverdale, and those places within 20 or 30 miles of New York, perhaps as far north as Sing Sing or Ossening, as far north as Tarrytown. That is prac- tically a metropohtan dehvery. That really is not a haul at all. It is within an hour and a quarter by motor; it is within two and a half hours by wagon. Many of the large stores in New York have suburban depots, suburban stables, where they dehver their PARCELS POST. 105 merchandise by trucks at night, and then distribute it by wagon over its outside area; but it is hardly a haul at all. It 'is part of our metropohtan system of delivery. Mr. Geegg. Do you think Mr. Bloomingdale. I beg your pardon. Our outside delivery costs us from 3i to 4 cents a package, regardless of its size — that is, counting a package a package whether a refrigerator or a package of needles. The- average cost of the delivery of a package, including this suburban delivery, as well as strictly metropolitan dehvery, is between 3^ and 4 cents. So, you see, the Government could hardly compete with us on that kuid of a haul, which is a home dehvery. Mr. Gardner. Have you any suggestion as to the average weight of those packages ? Mr. Bloomingdale. I have not. Mr. Gregg. Have you any figures showiag the local express charges for the poitits you have mentioned ? Mr. Bloomingdale. You mean whether there are local expresses that make that delivery ? Mr. Gregg. Yes. Mr. Bloomingdale. I think there are; yes. Mr. Gregg. Do you have the rates ? Mr. Bloomingdale. Personally, I have not. I do not know what they are. Mr. Gregg. When you started to make your statement, Mr. Bloomingdale, I beheve you mentioned that there was one firm — I do not recall whether you said it was in Chicago or not — that expended about $600,000 annually for postage. Mr. Bloomingdale. Yes; that is a New York firm. Mr. Gregg. A New York firm ? Mr. Bloomingdale. Yes. Mr. Gregg. Do you know whether that New York firm, or any other firm, has kept any account of the amount of postage that came into it? For instance, suppose they got 100,000 letters in a year or 200,000 letters. Mr. Bloomingdale. Mr. Graif tells me that they have estimated — I do not know how scientifically the estimate has been arrived at — that the total iacome to the Government by postage from their business is about $1,000,000, of which amount they contribute about $600,000, and $400,000 of which is represented by incoming mail. The Chairman. Are there any further questions ? Mr. Bloomingdale. I am obhged to you. The Chairman. Mr. Sulzer. Mr. Sulzer. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, the next speaker will be W. T. Creasy, who represents the Pennsylvania State Grange. The Chairman. Mr. Creasy. STATEMENT OF MR. W. T. CEEASY. Mr. Creasy. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I represent the Pennsylvania State Grange, an organization in Penn- sylvania having between sixty and seventy thousand members, an organization which for years has declared in favor of parcels post. 106 PABOELS POST. I also represent the Farmers' National Committee on Postal Reform and the Postal Express Federation. Now, I am not here to go into the technical points of the matter, nor am I going to make an argument. We have some gentlemen here who will make the argviment The Chairman. In what capacity do you represent these organi- zations ? Mr. Creasy. I am master of the Pennsylvania State Grange and member of the executive committee of the other two organizations. I am a farmer, and I would just like to say one word from the farmer's standpoint in favor of parcels post. Farming in our country has changed wonderfully within the last 10 or 12 years. The great ques- tion m the east, and I suppose all over the countiy, is the help question. I have a pretty large farm. I am in the fruit business and the general farming busmess, and I have quite a number of men employed, and sometimes we want to do something. I just caU to mind that the other day I wanted to make a fence, and I was out of wire staples, and, of course, I could not get them from town. The mail man goes past my building; that is, rural delivery, with nothing to carry except about from 25 to 30 pounds. I had one or two things to do there, and I could not lay my work down and go to town for these staples. The same thing is true with respect to selling the prod- ucts. The other Saturday a man ordered several bunches of aspar- agus, and I would have had to hitch up and take that to him per- sonally, while the mail wagon went past the road. Now, I am satisfied that these rural wagons could do all these things for the farmer, and it is almost necessary that they should do it, on account of the scarcity of help and the time it would take for a farmer to do it for himself. The Chairman. That is the Rural Delivery Service you are speak- ing of. Mr. Creasy. Yes; about that particularly. Mr. Weeks. How many staples did you mtend to buy ? Mr. Creasy. That day we ought to have had about 6 pounds. Mr. Weeks. Why did you not arrange with the rural carrier to bring you the 6 pounds. Mr. Creasy. I do not know I could. Mr. Weeks. There is no reason why you could not. Mr. Creasy. And then another thing — — Mr. Weeks. He is authorized to carry packages over 4 pounds. Mr. Creasy. Then another thing: Sometimes I want to send some books on this same route where I live. Perhaps I want to send them to the next neighbor. I am interested in spraying, and so is my neighbor, and he wanted some formulas, and I told him I would send him a book. The rate is 8 cents to send that to my next neigh- bor, and I could have sent it to California for the same rate. I do not think that is fair or reasonable. | The Chairman. Your complaint is not that it is too much for sending it to California, but too much for sending it to your neighbor? Mr. Creasy. Yes, sir. Under one of the bills of Mr. Sulzer, the zone hmit is fixed at 50 miles. That, it seems to me, would hit the farmer pretty good. Some of these routes go out of these zones, and they do not do the business they ought to; but under that rate PARCELS POST. 107 we could call up the merchant by telephone and get what we wanted, and have it delivered to our door. The Chairman. Why not make it 25 miles instead of 50 ? Mr. Creasy. Perhaps that would do. I thiak I am safe in saying that the farmer, with the use of a telephone, would do a great deal more business through the local merchant than he does at present. In other words, I do not think there would be so large a mail-order business if we had the right kind of parcels post. As a general rule, a man wants to see what he buys before he pays for it. The Chairman. Do you not thiak that anywhere in the country you could find a town within 25 miles where you could get what you need for farming ? Mr. Creasy. Not always. Some of these routes run out 12 to 15 miles from, perhaps, a small town; but I am not disputing about the zone limit. This seems to be something similar to what the German people have in a more thickly settled country, and I think 50 miles woiild be a fair zone limit in this country. Mr. Weeks. Would you apply the zone system to any other class of mail — ^first, second, or third class? Mr. Creasy. I do not think I would to the letter business. Mr. Weeks. Would you to the paper or book business? Mr. Creasy. I must say that that is out of my line of business. Although we do publish a paper, the Pennsylvania Grange issuing a monthly paper with 30,000 circulation, and it is all sent out through the mails, 1 am not posted on that, I am not doing the managing of it; but I do think the rates ought to be lowered in some way. However, that wiU be taken up by the men who understand it. I am talking particularly now as to the benefit to the farmer. Mr. Weeks. You mean the fourth-class rate ? Mr. Creasy. WeU, I do not know what classes they come under — merchandise, books, and these things. The Chairman. Books are third class, and almost any other mer- chandise would be fourth class. Mr. Creasy. But I think we should have a somewhat lower rate. It would seem to me that if the Government had a monopoly of this rural business, it would surely pay, and I think that would apply to the other mail business, too. But taking a rural route that perhaps serves 80 patrons, you wiU see that that rural driver could, on an average, every day, in our country, carry enough stuff, with not much hindrance, to make it pay. He would take enough stuff to the market and bring stuff to the farmer that would more than pay for what the Government pays him ; but in the start, it might exceed the cost. However, it is something that I think is absolutely necessary for the country people. Mr. Gardner. Pardon me a moment. The rural carrier gets what ? Mi. Creasy. That depends on the length of the distance. Iklr. Gardner. Take any route you have in mind. Mr. Lewis. $1,000. The Chairman. They are to get $1,000 after the 1st of July. Mr. Gardner. You expressed the opinion, as I understand it, that he should carry mail matter at a flat rate, which would bring the equivalent up to what he receives ? Mr. Creasy. I think so. 108 PARCELS POST. Mr. Gaedner. Is it possible that that condition exists anywhere and that some private party is not after it ? I could start a thousand routes like that on comparatively short notice, without any guaranty of income. Mr. Creasy. Let me tell you, that is a different proposition. The mail man is expected to go every day, and he is paid. He surely could do it cheaper than an outside party. Mr. Gregg. That condition existed 25 years ago in our country, out through western Pennsylvania. We had a man go all through that section. He had a regular route. He went through to Pittsburg and carried the merchandise back, taking orders from people to get stuff in Pittsburg. It took him two days to make a trip. Mr. Lafean. He did not carry the mails? Mr. Gregg. He did not carry the mails. Mr. Weeks. What was he paid? Mr. Gregg. He was paid according to the size of the package. He was never paid less than 25 cents, I behave. Of course it was a great accommodation . Mr. Gardner. I could not understand how that situation could exist without somebody embracing the opiJortunity. Mr. Gregg. Of course that is obviated in our country by street-car service. We send the order in by mail, and the goods are placed on a street car and hauled almost to our door. The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Greasy. Mr. Creasy. I am not prepared to make an argument on this. I am just giving these instances of my personal experience. We have other men here who will make an argument, men who are posted on the different phases of the subject. Mr. Weeks. Has this matter been taken up for discussion in the Grange ? Mr. Creasy. Indeed it has, for years and years; yes, sir. Mr. Weeks. And it has been thoroughly discussed in the Grange? Mr. Creasy. Yes, sir. Mr. Lafean. What, in your judgment, would be the effect on the country merchant by the establishment of a general parcels post ? Mr. Creasy. With the use of the telephone, I think it would increase his business. I am taking myself as an example. I would buy from the local merchant every time, because I could see what I was buying. Of course he would have to change his business methods a little. I would ask what he had, and I would have him describe it, and he would have to come up to his description of the goods. Mr. Lafean. What you were advocating was the rural-dehvery system ? Mr. Creasy. Yes; I am in favor of the general proposition, but more particularly within a certain zone. Mr. Gardner. A rural service. Mr. Creasy. Yes. I think the whole thing ought to be changed. We have things to sell, and that is one of the considerations that enter into the high cost of living — the cost of distribution, which includes transportation — and I am satisfied that that would be quite a benefit. The laboring man in the town would be glad to buy fresh products from the country if he could do so by calling up on the telephone on particular occasions. That is why the farmer and, I PAHOELS POST. 109 think, the labormg man, is in favor of the proposition, and I really think it would be a help to the country merchant. The Chairman. Mr. Sulzer. Mr. Sulzer. The next speaker is Mr. John A. McSparran, secre- tary of the legislative committee of the Pennsylvania State Grange. The Chairman. Mr. McSparran. STATEMENT OF MR. JOHN A. McSPARRAN, SECRETARY OF THE LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE OF THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE GRANGE. Mr. McSparran. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I appear before you to-day as a farmer. The organization to which I belong has held for many years that this is a problem that lies very close to them, and because of the fact that the civilized nations of the world over have this sort of trans- portation they felt that we had a right to it. I do not come here as an expert in rates; I do not pretend to be able to tell this committee what the cost of a system of that kind would be. There are rate experts that can fix that; but we have not in the United States, so far, practically any system of that kind. Our mail system, the 4-pound limit, at 16 cents a pound, is such a trifling excuse that it is hardly worth mentioniag in connection with parcels post, such as is known over the civilized world. Now, the express companies that have, in a measure, usurped that function in this country, are not giving and can not give service. They do not have the equipment. They do not get out iato the country districts. In short, they do not cover the ground. Now, we country people feel that we have just as much right to the benefits of civilization as anybody else. In primitive times it was customary for each family to be practically separate and distinct. What they wanted to do for themselves they did for themselves, and they depended upon practically no one else; but when what we know as civilization began to take hold, then that great principle was in- augurated that one man depended on another man; he did not altogether depend on himself. And just as civilization has gone on and reached higher levels from year to year, that dependence, the one upon the other, has gone to such an extent that to-day the necessity of one man to reach another is an absolute one, and, as a consequence, the whole question of transportation, whether it is railroad transportation, express transportation, telegraph transpor- tation, telephone transportation, or any other form, partakes of the nature of a great principle of civilization, and that great principle must, in order to fulfill its mission, have a general principle that reaches everybody. Now, as far as we know, in legislation of this country there has never been any effort made to legislate along those lines. We are practically babies among the nations of the earth with respect to the transportation question. We have the transportation, but we have not applied it to the conditions of the twentieth century. We have allowed the person who invests his money in any form of transporta- tion to simply use that business for his private gain and on the prin- ciple of charging all the traffic will bear. The question as to the 110 PARCELS POST. definite necessity to reach each other among our people as commu- nities and as far away districts has in our legislation been practically left out of account. I am here to-day to make the plea for this country to recognize that this question of transportation is one that has to do with the particular and individual welfare of every family in the United States. Congress should accept that as the fundamental position in consider- ing this subject. Now, if the express companies do not reach all the people, you can see at a glance then that they will absolutely fall down on the proposition to give to our people, without regard to residence, the right which they have in civilized communities to this transportation. That is what we farmers think we have a right to have, and of course it refers not only to farmers, but to all country people. Now, with us it is not so much a question as to having any particular or definite plan put in operation or at any particular expense. You can have your own ideas as to whether or not the Government has any right to carry a parcel for anybody at a loss, but you can not have any difference or opinion as to whether every citizen of the United States has a right to have the benefits of trans- portation brought home to his door, and it is that principle that I want to emphasize here to-day. Now, there are all sorts of propositions by men who have earnestly and deeply studied the rate question, from which I could have gotten the information, but even if I were to have gotten it and brought it here to you it would not have been original. Consequently I did not take up that side of the question at all; but I do plead with you men that the time is here, and has long since been here, in which the 30,000,000 or 40,000,000 people in the country districts of these United States have a right to have these close means of communica- tion such as our brother in the town and city has and has always enjoyed. We have supported this Government just as much as they; we have given it just as much effort, just as much taxes, just as much of strength and standing in every way as the dweller in the town and city. Why, then, should we not have these benefits that have been given to them ? But it will never be done as long as you allow transportation companies to look upon their business simply as a question of how much money they can get out of the people with whom they may do business, and that is the whole sum and sub- stance of the transportation question in this country. Our express companies make profits that are simply abnormal, if we can beheve anything at all that we can get from them. Every- thing is hidden up that it is possible to hide; but if we can beheve anything at aU, express company profits are simply out of aU reason. Our railroad companies, if we can beheve the reports that are made on them, have valuations of their capital which are out of all pro- portion to the actual value of their property, and yet they are making profits on this immense capitahzation. Mr. Weeks. Where do you get the basis for that statement? ^Ir. McSparean. I do not know. I have not anything official with me, but it has been the general newspaper talk that the raUroadg have been watered for generations. Mr. Weeks. Has it been anything else than newspaper talk? Mr. McSparran. I judged from the men who have given it that it was so. I said I did not have anything official on it. These state- pabcbijS post. Ill ments have been made by men who I think would not have made them had they not been true. Mr. Weeks. By whom, in particular? Mr. McSparran. Oh, I can not remember. I have heard that ever since I was a little boy. Mr. Weeks. So have I since I was a httle boy, and I am older than you; but I am looking for authority for the statement. Mr. McSparkan. Well, I could not give you that. The next point I want to make is that these express companies do for the foreigner what they will not do for the American citizen. The Chairman. The United States Government does that, does it not? Mr. McSparran. No; the United States Government was a party to the contract, possibly; but I think the contract you have there The Chairman. I have reference to the carrying of the mail. They have carried mail to England cheaper than in the United States. Mr. McSparran. I was speaking more particularly of the parcels that are outside of the 4-pound hmit. In the carrying of these f>arcels these express companies have entered into agreements with oreign countries, at least one foreign country, and I suppose there is no doubt about their entering into agreements with a good many others, in which they do carry these packages over the United States and deliver them a great deal cheaper than they will do the same service for us. Now, gentlemen, it certainly must appeal to all of you that that is a very curious proposition in business and legislation. When a cor- poration gets a charter from either the General Government or the State government, gets the protection of the laws of this country, and does a majority of its business here, I have no doubt tha't the people of this country should have the benefit of it. But we know that they will go into a foreign country and for the sake of a httle larger dividend will make with those foreign countries contracts at a very much lower rate than they give to the people of their own country. I say to you gentlemen that if that was being done in the time of war they would be led out, court-martialed, and shot. Mr. Gardner. What contract is this you are talking about ? Mr. McSparran. There is one there, with England. The Chairman. This one [indicating] ? Mr. McSparran. Yes; that is the contract with England. I have not any other official one. I understand there are contracts with quite a good many other countries, but I have not any other official ones here than that one. That is a copy of the official contract and is reliable. I understand they have contracts with different coun- tries, but I will not give that as official, because I can not prove it ; but that contract between the British post office and the American Express Co. is official, and the rates there given are below anything in this country. For instance, they will carry a 3-pound package from New York anywhere in the United Sta,tes under that contract for a shilHng and a half, I think a shilling and 6 pence, while they charge us for the same service — they charge a New Y orker putting a package into the mails of New York City going, for instance, to San Francisco — $1.65 and for the larger. weights, of course, they have other rates. You can consult the contract for yourself. X12 PABOELS POST. Now, when that is the case, gentlemen- Mr. Weeks. May I call your attention to one thing there? A shilling and a half is 36 cents, I suppose you figure it. Mr. McSpaeran. Yes. , j. t i Mr. Weeks. We would carry the 3-pound package from London to Chicago — I mean the Government — ^for 36 cents, and it is in that way that the express company takes advantage of the Governmeat rates. Whatever the rate as, they do the business, ordinarily ; that is, profitable business, at the rate that they will get, and leave to the Government the business that is not profitable. Mr. McSparean. That is undoubtedly true. I think the decisions of the courts have been taken up by Mr. WiUiams in a pamphlet, where he cites the exact decisions, and to which you can refer, that the Government was supposed to have a monopoly of this business, and these express companies have come in, and they have done just the thing the gentleman speaks of. They have taten out the business on the profitable hauls, and left on the Government's hands the unprofitable hauls; and there is no system, to my mind, by means of which you can get back of that possibility of a private company doing that thing. You must, of necessity, restore to the Government the monopolistic feature of the carrying of mails and packets, and that is the one thing that will, to a very large extent, decide the question of the rates which it will be necessary to levy in order to make that a paying business by the Government. Then, the third point I want to make is that the parcels post will bring together the small diversified producer and consumer. Now, here again, our transportation laws have worked in an absolutely opposite manner. It has been a constant development down tlirough the years away from the httle shipment of all kinds, because of the fact,' I think, that the big sldpment was a more pajdng proposition, and the question of the ability of the individual to get that service done as a convenience was practically overlooked. Why, we have the same principle carried out even in carload lots. I can remember when we could ship 400 or 450 bushels of wheat and get a carload rate. To-day you have to put in over 700 bushels of wheat in our country, over the Pennsylvania Railroad, to get the carload rates. That is just one concrete example of what has gone on along the whole line. There has been that tendency to compel the shipper to get the stuff that he wants to ship in large quantities, and what has been the result ? Right next to the producer of the commodity comes a middleman who will do that collecting and who will get that stuT together and put it in a form so that it can be cheaply shipped, and that material then is loaded on the means of transportation and it goes to its destination. There, again, it is not in shape to go to the consumer, and there, again, you have the middle man who comes in and takes those commodities from the transportation company and again distributes them out into a form, so that the consumer can use them. As a consequence of that fact, there has been, through the years, a constantly increasing tendency for a large portion of that which should go direct from the producer to the consumer of the commodity to go into the hands of what we know as the middleman, until, on the one hand, we have the producer putting up his commodities at almost a loss, and the consumer paying extortionate prices for that same PAECELS POST. 113 commodity when it comes into the shape that he can buy it and use it in his family. The Chairman. There is no purpose to curb this investigation, but what you are talking about could have no bearing on the parcels-post proposition. Mr. McSpakran. I think it has. Mr. Gardner. Reference to this agreement has gone into the record. Have we any information as to whether this is higher or lower than the United States rates ? This is an average rate, I see. Here is a contract with the British Government that 3 pounds shall be dehvered at 36 cents and up to 7 pounds at 48 cents and up to 11 pounds at 60 cents ; but that is a flat rate to every place in the country. Therefore, the only way to make a comparison is by the average. Mr. McSparean. I do not think we have any other mail rate than a flat rate. Mr. Gardner. I am not talking about the mail rate. The state- ment has gone into the record, as I understand it, that the express companies are doing for the British Government what they will not do for the citizens of the United States, because they will take 1 1 pounds across the continent for 60 cents, and that they will not do for a private citizen. That is true if left there, but this is a contract with the British Government by which they could fix a rate on every pack- age delivered in the United States outside of their wagon haul which is New York, Brooklyn, Jersey City, and Hoboken, at a flate rate ; that is to say, while they might send from 7 to 1 1 pounds to San Francisco for 60 cents, they also get the 60 cents if they send it to Newark. That is a contract with another Government which fixes the Average rate for every part of the country. I do not know whether that is above the express rates or below the express rates that are charged to the American citizens, or an average ? Mr. Gregg. I understand you will find that in a statement that was given here by Mr. Lewis this morning. It is found on page 1841 of the Congressional Record. Mr. Gardner. Very well, if it is explained somewhere. But, as the gentleman stated to-day, he leaves the impression that this agreement is something entirely different from what it is. I do not mean that he is misstating it; but I do mean that while they get 60 cents across the continent, they also get 60 cents from New York to Newark. Mr. McSparean. Well, on the other hand, they get a still cheaper rate close to home, like in New York City. Mr. Gardner. Where it is not shipped within their wagons. Mr. McSparran. Yes. Mr. Gardner. Yes. Mr. McSparran. That would be still cheaper; so I think you will find when you average it up that the table is entirely rehable. Mr. Gardner. The table is rehable, but the rate the table gives is an average' rate over the country. Mr. Lewis. Of 5 to 100 pounds. Mr. Gardner. It also shows what the average haul is. Mr. Lewis. There is no specific information as to the average haul. I think it is actually about 300, but in my computation of tentative rates I put it at about 196 to be safe. 3110—11 8 114 PARCELS POST. Mr. Gardner. Well, we can not compare the local rate without some average. We have to strike an average haul somewhere. Mr. Lewis. The average freight haul is 251 miles. That might do. The Chairman. We do not want to interrupt you, Mr. McSparran. Mr. Gardner. No ; I simply wanted to get at what the table means. Mr. McSparran. I was making the point that the parcels post wUl bring together the small diversified producer and consumer, and I think 1 went far enough into the history of transportation to show you that our transportation system has tended to ehminate the small producer as a marketer of his own crops. Mr. Weeks. Are not all freight rates lower than they were 10 years ago in your section ? Mr. McSparran. I think they are. Mr. Weeks. On all kinds and bulks? Mr. McSparran. I think so. Mr. Weeks. If there were any complaint of the rate charged for the smaller shipment, would not the Interstate Commerce Commis- sion pass on that and justify the rate ? Mr. McSparran. T suppose they would. I do not know about that. Mr. Gregg. Let me ask you this question, Mr. McSparran: Is it your idea that the parcels post will be used to a very large extent by the middle man of whom you were just speaking recently ? Mr. McSparran. It would have a tendency to bring the producer direct to the consumer. Mr. Gardner. To what extent with respect to the farmer, for instance. We will admit that the farmer is in direct competition with the city Stores, to start with. In what way does it bring him in direct contact with the consumer of the thing he produces ? Mr. McSparran. For the simple reason that if we had the parcels post, at a reasonable cost, we could ship any kind of food products we wished in small quantities. Mr. Gardner. I am interested in this. I probably farm more acres than any of you gentlemen who are talking, and I want to know how I and my neighbors can use the parcels post for marketing the products of the farm. Now, Mr. Creasy of the Pennsylvania State Grange spoke of asparagus and eggs and wheat and potatoes and cabbage. Just what do you mean the farmer will ship direct to the consumer by parcels post ? Mr. McSparran. Just what he would ship would depend upon the supply and demand. The time might easily be when he would ship a cabbage, or when he would ship any other commodity. Mr. Gardner. Take the conditions now, where he raises fruit or grain or vegetables. Mr. McSparran. There would not be much use of shipping grain, because the consumer can not use the grain. He would ship the things the consumer can use. Mr. Gardner. Very well; then eliminaite the grain. Now, he has vegetables. He can use them. Mr. McSparran. Yes. Mr. Gardner. Can he use the parcels post? Mr. McSparran. I do not understand why he can not. Mr. SuLZER. There are in every other country. PAECELS POST. 115 Mr. McSparran. 'I know men who use the express companies to do that, and the express companies collect the bills. The trouble is it costs too much. Mr. Gardner. Something like asparagus and celery. Mr. McSparran. No ; butter and eggs. I know men who are doing that — and chickens, and anything else. There is nothing mysterious about it. If I have a brother who is living in the city 60 miles from me, I can practically furnish his table if I can get the rates; but I can not do it if I have to pay more than the stuff is worth to get it moved from my place, with a haul of 2 or. 3 miles to the station to start with, and then have to haul it at the other end. Mr. Gardner. Tha,t is the business j'ou have in mind for the par- cels post ? Mr. McSparran. Yes, sir; not only to bring the commodities back to the farm, and not only to the farmer, but to anybody. I do not think this discussion refers to any one class of people. Here is a mechanic who breaks a chisel. He can send in to a manufacturing concern in Portland, Me., which makes up the chisels, and get that thing at a flat rate, just as easily" as going to a big department store whicli keeps all kinds of makes of that particular instrument. Mr. Gardner. There is no use of jumping away from the farm all at once. I was talldng about the farm. How can a man be brought into contact with the farmer ? Of course that brings out the value of the parcels post to the farmer. Mr. McSparran. I certainly think that any parcels post that was limited to a few kinds of goods in a certain sized package, and hedged about with a whole lot of specifications, would be just as big a joke as the one we have now. What we want is for the express companies to take their finger off the American people and give them a chance to do their own business in their own way. That is the whole propo- sition, and it is not necessary to specify any particular kind of goods, or particular kind of packing, because, when the Government gets the equipment to handle packages, they can handle pretty much any kind of a package. But these things do not go; people do not ship stuff for the sake of pestering their Government in the handling of that stuff. They ship it because they want it to reach somebody, and they ship it the easiest way and along the general lines of busi- ness and for the general reasons of business. The Chairman. Would you put a limit on the carrying of parcels ? Mr. McSparran. You would have to make some kind of a limit. The Chairman. What limit would you make ? Mr. McSparran. Well, I do not think it is necessary absolutely to make a limit. The Chairman. A hundred pounds ? Mr. McSparran. Yes ; possibly. I think the Germans have about 130 pounds, if I recollect it. Mr. Lewis. Belgium 130 and France 130. Mr. CowLES. England has 11 pounds and 2 cubic feet in space. The Chairman. May I ask you how long it will take you to get through, Mr. McSparran ? Mr. McSparran. I am just through. That is the last point I wanted to make, that the parcels post could give to the producer ability to reach the consumer direct — not the necessity, but the ability. 1X6 PAEOBLS POST. Mr. Weeks. You advocate the plan which Was suggested by Mr. Lewis this morning to take over the express companies' business, do you ? Mr. McSpaeean. I do not think I would stand for any particular bill in the shape it is now. As we have looked over these bills — the Sulzer bill, the Howard bUl, and the Lewis bill all have splendid points — I do not think I am the one that is supposed to have the technical loiowledge to come in here and tell you men which one is the best of the three. I will not attempt to do it, because there are men who have studied, the whole question and those particular technical parts of the question which I have not studied at all. I simply came here to call your attention to the fact that we have practically nothing, and that all the rest of the civUized world have these privileges. I think the time has passed long ago when our legislatures should have given us some system by means of which we can reach each other easily and quickly with our commodities and with what we need for consumption. Mr. Weeks. You represent a large number of people. Do you think there is any sentunent among the people whom you represent that the Government should do this business at less than cost ? Mr. McSpaeran. Well, I would not know about that. Personally, I would not think they should. Mr. Weeks. Whenever this has been discussed at the Grange meetings, the question of cost, I suppose, has not been considered? Mr. McSparean. No; I do not think I ever heard the question discussed. Mr. Weeks. It was simply the desire to have it done? Mr. McSparean. Yes. Mr. Weeks. Without any regard to the cost ? Mr. McSpaeean. Yes; naturally the grange is composed almost entirely of farmers, very few of whom are technical men, and conse- quently such a matter would seldom come up. Mr. Weeks. What the farmer wants is better facilities to enable him to get rid of what he has to sell. Mr. McSpaeean. Yes; and at a price that will be just. I do not think we have any right to pay the express companies $11,000,000 profits for doing the transportation of the parcel business of this country. It is out of all reason, and I think that that can be pared down very decidedly. The Chaieman. Are there any further questions to ask? Mr. Geegg. What is your post-office address ? Mr. McSpaeean. Furniss, Lancaster County. The Chairman. If there is no objection, we will adjourn now until 10.30 o'clock to-morrow. (Whereupon, at 4.15 o'clock, the committee adjourned until to- morrow, Thursday, June 15, 1911, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) paecels post. 117 Subcommittee No. 4 of the Committee ON Post Offices and Post Roads, House of Representatives, Thursdcuy, June 15, 1911. The subcommittee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. James T. Lloyd presiding. The Chairman. The committee will come to order, please. Mr. Sulzer, you may begin. Mr. SuLZEE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I present as the first speaker at this meeting in favor of general parcels-post legislation, Mr. E. E. Greenwalt, president of the Pennsylvania State Federation of Labor. STATEMENT OF MR. E. E. GREENAWALT, PRESIDENT OF THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE FEDERATION OF LABOR. Mr. Greenawalt. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I am not here prepared to make an extended argument in favor of the parcels post. I came, rather, to register the approval of our people for legislation along these lines. We believe that great interest is being manifested by our people in this direction, and feel that the distribution of merchandise would be greatly facilitated. As the farmers and mechanics become better acquainted, through their organizations, with the needs and desires of each other, the incUnation to be helpful toward each other is more manifest. The Chairman. Is it not true that the interest of the laboring people is more sympathetic than any real benefit that they expect ? Mr. Greenawalt. I hardly think so, Mr. Chairman. In analyzing the proposition, we find that if there is a more general or a more expeditious distribution of merchandise, it will be beneficial to all our citizens. The Chairman. .How would the parcels post help you in the cities ? Mr. Greenawalt. Legislation calculated to expedite the distri- bution of merchandise will bring advantages and conveniences to all the people. The Chairman. You do not think that any system of delivery by parcels post through the Government wouldf be more expeditious than the present system in the cities? Mr. Greenawalt. No; but by extending the parcels delivery by by the Government, it AviU aid the city dweller as well as the rural dweller. The Chairman. What I am trying to get at is how it is a benefit to the city dweller, because it can not affect the delivery of his package. Mr. Greenawalt. I think it does expedite the transmission of parcels from the rural districts to the cities, from such points where, for instance, the express companies do not now reach. The Chairman. The laboring man is not interested in that. He is interested in receiving the parcel from the place where he buys the parcel to his home. Mr. Greenawalt. Well, presuming that he buys his vegetables and so on direct from the producer. The Chairman. Then, you would want the Government to deliver the vegetables, would you? 118 PARCELS POST. Mr. GeeenawAlt. Arguments were brought forward here yester- day for quick delivery of produce, the farmer's product, where the express companies do not reach him at the present time. It would facilitate matters in that direction, I believe. The Chairman. Then, would you make the mail wagon a huclister wagon ? Mr. Geeenawalt. No, indeed. It would not apply in that direc- tion at all, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. If you would have the mail go where the express conmanies do not go, would it not have to go by wagon ? Mr. Geeenawalt. It would certainly have to go by some sort of conveyance. .' The Chairman. You would carry the mail and products of the farm or garden to the individual who is to use those vegetables ? Mr. Greenawalt. The extension of the postal system to a parcels- post arrangement, I believe, would include merchandise or pack- ages of that character. I believe it should. The Chairman. Would you limit the weight of the package that should be carried? Mr. Greenawalt. That is a detail that, it appears to me, should be worked out by the department. The Chairman. Why should it be worked out by the department rather than by the people ? The people know what they want. Mr. Geeenawalt. The people know that they want the parcels post. The Chairman. And the people know whether they want large or small packages ? Mr. Greenawalt. I do not believe that this committee or the general membership of Congress, at this session, or perhaps a number of succeeding sessions, will be able to give us an entirely satisfactory parcels post; but I do believe the time is here when the initiatory steps should be taken in this direction. The Chairman. What I am trying to get at is this: The laboring people of the United States have been expressing dissent to the action of the Post OfSce Department in very forcible terms, but they now insist that all the details of the parcels post should be left to the Postmaster General, a, man who himself is never supposed to know much about postal matters. I do not understand why you want to do it. Mr. Geeenawalt. The people as a whole can not make these laws. Unfortunately we do not have popular government so that the people can make their own laws. The Chairman. There is no reason at all why the people should not fix a limit, and if that limit is not a proper limit, the people have the power, though their representatives, to change it; and m every country in Europe to which reference has been made in these hearings, there is a limit to the weight of the parcel which can be carried. Now, why you or anybody else should insist that it be left to the Postmaster General to do that which should be done by the people or the Government, I do not understand. Mr. Greenawalt. Well, when the people or the Government delegate its business affairs to Congress, the various departments can not do otherwise. PAKGBIiS POST. 119 The Chairman. You are undertaking tOi leave it HO:fc to; the Con- gress. Your purpose and statenaemts made, by the several men are that you want to take away foom Congress that power. You say that Conguess. has not the, judgment to pass upon the Ea;atter; you say the people have not the jrudgment to, det«i?mi.a« what they w^nt; but the Pos-imaster General has that judgment. Now, I am express- ing the idea that the Postmaster General, of all men, is; the man who has the least judgment with reference to it. Mr. Gbeenawalt. I beheve, Mr. Chairman,, that you, have misin- terpreted ray remarks. The Chairman. Then, make it plain. Mr. Greenawalt. You misunderstanid me when you say that I hestitate to leave the matter to the people or to Congress. If I had my voithat Sears, Roebuck & Co. are in favor of parcels post, though Montgomery-, Ward & Co. are opposed to it. Mr. Quick. I understand not. I have talked with people inter- ested in parcels post and tried to get them interested in it, and received no encouragement at all. The CHAi®MAiir. Now, let me make this suggestion : I had a con- versation not long ago with a representative of Sears, Roebuck & Co., and h« said this was th« fact, that they had learned that their support of this proposition was injurious to it and that they had taken the other position; that they were just as much in favor of parcels-posts legislation now as they were several years ago when they advocated it, but they were taking the course they did take for the purpose of accomplishing their object by indirection. Mr. Quick. That may be true, but my judgment is that it is not true. The Chairman. Why would they not be for it? That is the question. Mr. Quick. Let me suggest here that >they have already arrange- ments made with the express companies, and they already have their tremendous distribution of freight arranged in a way that is one of the wonders of the mercantile world, and they are quite satisfied with things as they are. They now distribute all their catalogues by express; they are in close touch with the express companies. What their relation to freight rates may be I do not know; I can on.ly sur- mise, but I know this, that their attitude toward the proposition seems to be that two or three houses have a practical monopoly of the mail-.order busiaess, and if the parcels post was encouraged the village merchant, the merchant of the small towns, everj^body, would have access to the mail and to the .carrying of parcels on equal terms with them. If I were a member of the firm of Sears, Roebuck & Co. or Montgomery, Ward & Co., I would oppose parcels posts if I would allow iwsefl to be governed by selfishness, which I have on occasion. Mr. Weeks. You think the small merchant receives very much of his merchandise in small packages? Does not most of it come to him by freight ? Mr. Quick. I think that is true; but he can send out a great deal of his freight in small packages, if he had a parcels-post system. He would doubtless get it as he does now, by freight, and yet a friend of mine traveling in Germany lasit summer was at a store in Munich, where his wife was picking out some tablecloths, .and finding some to her fancj^, she said, "Yes; send a certain number of these tablecloths of a certain size." They said, "We regret to say that we have not these cloths in that size, but if you will give us the name of your hotel we will send you these tablecloths by parcels post, and they will be delivered to you at 9 o'clock on Wednesday morning." She bought the tablecloths, and they were delivered to her. The local merchant got the commission for selling them, just as if he had the goods on his shelves, but he never had them on his shelves at all. That kind of business would be in the hands of the village and town merchants all over this country to a greater degree than we can even appreciate. I am afraid I am taking up too much of your time. Mr. Gardner. In the estaolishment of the parcels post along the lines which you have suggested, have you questioned with yourself 136 PAECELS POST. whether it would not be wiser to have the Postmaster General or some commission establish it within a certain zone, but not rigidly by a zone, but according to the circumstances in each locality, somethine like the consideration now given to the establishment of a postal savings bank or a rural delivery route ? Mr. Quick. No, sir; I have not considered that matter. I take it that the advantages of a parcels post are now too well established, through the experience of forty or fifty nations of the world over a generation or two, so that we do not really need any light on that subject. Mr. Gardner. But it is not for the purpose of getting light that I am speaking as to the general desirability of the thing, but light as to the practicability of working it out and arriving at the territory that it is most desirable to cover. , Mr. Quick. No; I have not considered that matter. I am in favor of the establishment of this system. I think the matter should be thoroughly worked out beforehand, as I say, by experts. I am willing to have the adoption of it postponed. Mr. Gardner. Do you not think it would be best to work it out ia the manner suggested, by inauguration Mr. Quick. That may be so in this case. It does not seem so to me, however. We were offered the local rural parcels post as a method of starting parcels posts in this country. To my mind, if that plan — well meant as it xnay be — were adopted, it would ruin the cause of parcels posts in this country, because it would be absolutely fore- doomed to failure. Whether or not any system of parcels post can be worked out locally is very questionable Mr. Gardner. What I mean is this: For instance, here is a locality sharply divided by parcels posts. Now, these people directly from Philadelphia can keep within a 30-mile zone, but these people have to go down the New Jersey Southern road, and then by the Eeading road, although living right down at the dividing line of the parcels post, and they would come without the 30-mile zone if distance were counted. Mr. Quick. Yes. Mr. Gardner. Now, that is a single case that could be considered by the Postmaster General or a commission, which a rigid law would not cover. Mr. Quick. I see the point; yes. I think there may be a good deal in that. It appears to me that where a community's business is determined by trade territories and by railway lines and by things, of that sort, rather than by any hard and fast rule — just as I sug- gested awhile ago, when your chairman asked me whether I would have it go by distance hauled or by an air line, that matter is some- thing which, it seems to me, would have to be worked out in practice, and there would probably have to be a great deal of cutting and trying and fitting, and that a satisfactory and very useful system might be arrived at I have no doubt whatever. Mr. Gardner. Each particular one would require, perhaps, a working out, and that would mean that somebody must have author- ity. For instance, it will very often happen that by running 17 miles farther up the road, the rural carrier's haul is very much shorter. Mr. Quick. Yes. PAECELS POST. 137 Mr. Gaednee. Take Medford in New Jersey. The carrier there woTild come across the woods 9 miles to reach the people of Chemung, whereas, by running on the Southern system and reaching that side, he would have a 3-mile haul. The long route might be the economical route. Mr. Quick. I can see that very many of these special cases might arise. I have no disposition to argue for any hard or fast or rigid system. I merely wanted to suggest to you that local parcels with special rates and distinctive stamps could be established without any very large addition to your rural equipment, and without any addi- tion at all to your force of city carriers, because the bill provides that packages, under that system, be called for at the post office and dehvered at the post office, except that the rural free-dehvery wagon should be considered a branch of the post office for the purpose of dehvering and receiving this freight. That kind of a system might be put in, the details, of course, not to b^ Mr. Gaednee. Pardon me. What an original system calls for is very important in the matter of discussing the scheme. It has some- times a very little significance when we recollect that the appropria- tion is subject to legislation and must pass Congress. Rural delivery, when estabhshed, was to cover only the territory where there were good roads, but when they gat the bills on the floor of the House, we found about two-thirds of the Members represented the districts that did not have good roads, and we had a paper fortress. Mr. Quick. I see. The Chaieman. You were speaking a while ago of having had something offered to you in the way of rural parcels-post service. What is offered to you, and by whom ? Mr. Quick. I do not remember that remark, Mr. Chairman. The Chaieman. That is the way I understood it — that you had local parcels posts offered to you from the initial post office. Mr. Quick. I beg your pardon, but I do not quite remember what I said that brings out that question. However, I think I know what you mean. I mean the proposition of the Postmaster General for a restricted local parcels post on rural lines, confined to the system, of getting into any one place. The Chaieman. He recommended it in his report 1 Mr. Quick. Yes. That is the system which I desire to protest against as being probably the thing which would ruin the whole parcels-post movement. Mr. Weeks. You do not think that would be successful ? Mr. Quick. I do not think that would be successful. I do not think it could possibly be successful. Mr. Weeks. Then, the greatest stress ought not to be laid on the argument that is frequently used, that we ought to fill up the empty wagons ? Mr. Quick. Well, I think some stress should be laid upon the advisability of filling them up to the point of making that service . somewhat compensatory, but I do not believe that should be the only object. Mr. Weeks. Have you ever made any estimate, or tried to make any, or has anybody ever made any estimate, of the probable addi- tional cost for rural-delivery service, if the service that you ask were adopted ? 138 fABCELS POST. Mr. Quick. I have not made any such estimate. As a matter of course, there would be some new equipment needed. Perhaps Congressman Sulxer made an estimate ; I do not know. Mr. Weeks. It would probably mean larger salaries to carriers. Mr. Quick. I think they could earn larger salaries. The Chairman. Do you object to the system proposed by the Post- master General ? You gave Middleton as an illustration, where there were a number of rural carriers, but where there was a small town ? Mr. Quick. Yes; and that has a large town within six miles of it. The Chairman. Do you think if the zone system should be adopted those wagons would carry numbers of parcels of mail ? Mr. Quick. To and from Middleton ? The Chairman. To and from Middleton. Mr. Quick. They would carry, I tliink, large numbers of parcels to and from Middleton. The Chairman. Where would those packages come from ? Mr. Quick. They would 'come from points within the zone. The Chairman. They would not come from Middleton. Mr. Quick. Some of them would. A large number of them would not. Notwithstanding the fact that the retailer, who, I think, is a very shortsighted person ordinarily, thinks he would be ruined by parcels post, I think that system would give a considerable impetus to certain lines of local business, and while the local merchant would have to make some changes in his business methods, I think he would be just as prosperous as now. The Chairman. It looked to me as though Middleton could not supply the demand, and you wanted this zone system in order that they might get it from Madison and other points, and th«n the pack- ages would come from Madison and be distributed by the carriers through the country, and the result would be that these people .would be buying goods not from Middleton, but from Madison. Mr. Quick. They buy their goods in Madison now. The stores in Middleton are little on€-horse country stores, of the kind that deals in a few articles, hardware and some .drugs, and something in the way of groceries, but when they want anything unusual there they go to Madison. i The Chairman. What size is Middleton ? Mr. Quick. The ordinary little town. The Chairman. How large is it ? Mr. Quick. Two or three hundred. That situation is not confined to our town, but take the town of Jackson, Mich. I am inforjjaed that is the fact there. That is the fact around Sioux City, and there is not a single rural route running into Chicago, into Philadelphia, or into any of our large cities. Mr. Gregg. Would you believe in the establishment of experi- mental stations at various parts of the country ? Mr. Quick. Well, I would, if it were a scheme for the propagation of a new crop that we had not had any experience with or the exter- mination of some recently discovered disease. Mr. Gregg. I mean in this connection. Mr. Quick. But I do not believe I would in this case. I do not think it is necessary. I think we have the information. Mr. Weeks. We have the information of the advocates of the plan pretty thoroughly, or we wiU have, but the financial side is PAECEIvS POST. 139 .always before us, and we must determine in some way about what the cost is going to be. You know when Congress starts on a pro- ject of this sort it very seldom takes a back track, because the vested interests become involved, and it is impossible to retrace your steps if you make a mistake. Therefore it is especially desirable that we start this system on a business-like basis, so that it can be extended and expanded along lines that will be reasonable and business like, rather than along lines that are going to mean a largely increased deficit in the department. That will be the reason, in my mind, for making an experimental try and basing what we actually and finally do on the result of that ex;periment. Mr. Quick. Personally, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I did not agree to commit myself one way or the other with reference to the experimental proposition, but I will say this, that I believe the peo- ple of the country are willing to meet wi£h some delay if they laiow that investigations are going on in collating and examining and analyzing the enormous mass of facts which are available, and if at this session of Congress you should pass a parcels-post law and hold off the inauguration pending the report of the commission of the most eminent experts upon the subject 'I think it would hold out a great deal of hope to the people. I realize fully that if you go wrong on the matter you go wrong irretrievably, perhaps, and I am not in favor of incurring that danger. Mr. Weeks. There never has been any disposition on the part of Congresg to do anything else than to investigate the naatter thor- oughly. For instance, when we put in our appropriation bill last yeewT there was a provision for experimental parcels posts on rural routes. It was new legislation, and I being an earnest advocate of the parcels post, thinking that it was going to delay the matter, made a point of order against it, so that we could not get the information which we hoped to in that way. That is not your fault, but that is the fact. Mr. Quick. I can §ee how that might easily happen. That is aU, gentlemen. I thank you very much. Mr. SuL^sEK.. Mr. Cliairman and .gentlemen of the comonittee, there are two gentlemen here wlio want to get away on the 1 .SO train, and they will be very brief in their remarks. They represent a .consider- able number of people, and J would Mke to have the commititee hear them. Th« Qsu^nWAN. Name them. Mr. SuiiZEjR. The first will be Mr. Gude, representing the Society of American Flori&ts and Ornamental Horticulturists of the United States. STATEMENT OF ME. WILUAM F. GUDE, OF WASHINGTON, D. C. The Chairman. You live in Washington, do you not ? Mr. Gude. Yes, sir. I have an important meeting waiting for me right now, and I will not take over three minutes. The Chairman. Go ahead. Mr. Gude. Gentlemen, I represent the Society of American Florists and Ornamental Horticulturisits, an organization composed of men who are eminent florists and horticulturists, as well as seedsmen and nurserymen, and men who do business largely to promote the aesthetic 140 PABCELS POST. part of man, and act as a lifting power, if I may so put it, to humanity. The most prominent men in our line in all the large cities are members of this organization, and it comprises about 1,000 members. A great many are hfe members. The Chairman. Let me ask you this question: How do you repre- sent them ? In what way do you represent this organization ? Mr. Gtjde. I am appointed by the executive board, and my appoiat- naent is signed by the president of the organization, which meets m annual convention. Our charter, which we hold from the United States Government, is signed by President McKinley, and it must have a local agent situated at the National Capital. Therefore, I come here as their legal representative. The Chairman. You appear here as their local representative, or do you appear here especially for the purpose of advocating this movement at their instance, or how do you appear ? Mr. GuDE. At the convention held three years ago, a unanimous vote was passed in favor of parcels post, and our records will so show, The seedsmen and florists probably need a parcels post more than anyone else, for the reason that they need a service by which they can send their goods at a rate which they can afford to pay. The Chairman. Have there been any resolutions passed since that time ? jNIr. GrDE. Yes, sir; last year at the Rochester convention and two years ago at the Niagara Falls convention. We meet in annual convention on the third Tuesday of August. Next year we meet at Baltimore. The Chairman. Then you are here as a representative of that ' great organization ? Mr. GuDE. Yes, sir. The C'hairman. And to give their views with reference to parcels post ? Mr. GuDE. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Go ahead. Mr. GuDE. This matter has been thrashed out in the organization, and I simply want to present to you what they have done. I have no scheme of my own to offer, and have no mercenary motive, so far as I am concerned. I am simply here to present their wishes to the committee which is considering this proposition at this time, and I would feel that I would be lax in my duty if I did not do it. Con- sequently, I am here this morning to state that this resolution has been passed, not by a few members, but by an annual convention. The matter was discussed, and three separate and distinct times they have passed a unanimous resolution favoring the estabKshment of a parcels post by the United States Government similar to that which has been estabhshed in other countries. The Chairman. Do you think it would be of any benefit to you in your business ? Mr. GuBE. It would; yes, sir. The Chairman. What benefit ? Mr. GuDE. For instance, I might refer to the violets that you buy for your lady friends. They are mostly aU grown on the Hudson Eiver, near Poughkeepsie. The express companies fail to give such service as will get them here in good condition, on account of the transfer in New York City and the result is that Easter or Christmas PAECELS POST. 141 in the National Capital, thousands upon thousands of violets have to conae here by special dehvery mail. Now, gentlemen, that is expen- sive, for two reasons. One is the fact that they are very likely to freeze, and the other is the additional postage required for this special delivery, which, ultimately, of course our customers have to help to pay, if we sell the violets. Again, in distributing seeds, while lam not in the seed business, it would be a very great advantage in dis- tributing seeds broadcast throughout the United States. In doing that the express service is frequently slow — I do not want to say careless — but, nevertheless, we have, in some instances, very deficient express service. The Chairman. You find the mail service very much more expeditious ? Mr. GiiDE. Yes, sir. The Chairman. But you use the special dehvery, do you not ? Mr. Gtjde. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Altogether ? Mr. GuDE. Yes, sir; for our own protection and for the protection of our customers. That is necessarily very expensive. For instance, if any of you live in the Southern States, 1 might say that the South would be very materially helped if we could get flowers and seeds there as we ought to be able to get them there with the proper express facilities at this time. We have not had the proper facilities, to the best of my knowledge, and we have not them to-day. Gentlemen, if, in Durham, S. C, or Greensboro, N. C, there is a function going on, a graduating exercise, a wedding, or what not, which makes flowers a necessity, and they order from Washington City, I will say, at 10 o'clock in the morning, they have to wait 25 hours before those flowers leave by express now. That condition, we believe, would be altered by parcels post. That probably is a httle personal, from facts 1 know at present. In a good many of the larger cities of the South there is only one express service a day, and that leaves at 10 o'clock in the morning and our package must be in the express ofl&ce one hour before the train leaves. Those are the conditions that affect the National Capital to-day. Mr. Weeks. You speak of some carrier that would do this business at a rate which those you represent could afford to pay. What do you think that rate ought to be ? Mr. GuDE. I can only answer that by saying that it should be a happy medium between the rate charged by the express company and the first-class postage rate now, as applied to flowers. Mr. Weeks. What do you pay the express company for carrying a box which would weigh, I suppose, a pound or a pound and a half of flowers to Durham, N. C. ? Mr. GuDE. It is 60 or 75 cents. Mr. Weeks. How much could you send that by mail to Durham, N. C, for? Mr. Gude. We can send it by first-class mail now cheaper than by express. I am not thoroughly familiar with the postage rates. Mr. Weeks. If your package weighed a pound, could you not send it to Durham, N. C, for 16 cents by mail? Mr. GtTOE. I do not know whether that is true with a special- delivery stamp or not. 142 PAKCELS POST. Mr. Weeks. No; it would be 26 cents with a special-delivery stamp. Then, you could send it by mail now for one- third of what the express companies would charge? Mr. GuDE. Yes, sir. Mr. Weeks. Then, why don't you ship by mail ? Mr. Gtjde. Because the great majority of our packages are more than the 4 pounds which we are permitted to send. That is the reason. Ivlr. Weeks. Do the majority of your packages weigh more than 4 pounds ? Mr. GuDE. They frequently do. Then, there is an amount of paper necessary and some material strong enough so that they will reach the purchaser in proper condition. Consequently, the package "itself weighs more than the contents of the package. Mr. Bell. May I ask you if the express rate on flowers is more than the ordinary merchandise ? Mr. GuDE. Yes, sir; I think it is. The Chairman. With your practice of having these transported by first-class mail the parcels post would not affect you at all ? Mr. GuDE. Yes, sir; it would; because we could then send by parcels post. The Chairman. We have a parcels post now. Mr. GuBE. But they will not carry over 4 pounds. The Chairman. The only thing, then, that you would be concerned in would be the increase in weight ? Mr. GuDE. And the reduction in expense. The Chairman. Well, the smaller package can now be carried. A package weighing less than 4 pounds can be carried now by parcels post. Mr. GuDE. Only to certain places. The Chairman. Am^where, if it weighs less than 4 pounds. Mr. GuDE. In a great many instances; yes. The Chairman. You can carry such a package anywhere. Mr. Weeks. Do you use the postal service at all now in sending your goods to your customers ? Mr. GuDE. Yes, sir. Mr. Weeks. To what extent? Mr. GuDE. I should not say over 25 per cent. The Chairman. Do you mean 25 per cent of that which you ship? Mr. GuDE. Yes, sir; that is, in the number of packages. Mr. Weeks. Have you always used the postal service if the package weighs less than 4 pounds ? Mr. GuDE. No, sir; if it is a short distance; because it requires a more expensive package to send by mail than by express. Ihe Chairman. Are there any further questions to ask of Mr. Gude? Mr. Gregg. Do you send to any place where there is not a station or post office from which special dehvery is made ? Mr. Gude. Yes; we do. Believing that we get better service, even through a rural post office, we put a special stamp on, so that no matter where the package shows up we believe it goes through quicker, even though they have to call there for it at the rural office. The Chairman. Who is the next witness ? Mr. SuLZER. Mr. L. H. Healey, master of the Connecticut State Grange, desires to be heard. PARCELS POST. 143 STATEMEITT OF MR. L. H. HEAIEY, MASTER OF THE CONNECTICUT STATE GRANGE. The Chaieman. Mr. Healey. Mr. Healey. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I wish to tell you of a little incident that happened at one of the eastern seashore resorts last summer. I think it was in Connecticut, but perhaps it was in Massachusetts, at one of the many beautiful places which they have there. A young fellow who had taken one of his best girls for a couple of weeks' stay at the resort was sitting one morning on a large bowlder by the water's edge, and they had arrived at that condition when the young fellow thought the girl was about ready to be kissed. He braced up his courage, and put his lips very near to- the lips of the girl when his courage failed him, and instead of kissing the girl he smacked his own lips. The girl heard the noise and turned around and said, "John, what was that noise?" The young fellow's diffidence over- came him, and he said, "I got some sand in my mouth, and I was spitting it out." In a few minutes they arrived at the condition where he braced up his courage and tried it again, with the same result, and a third time with the same result, with the girl asking him the same question over again and receiving the same reply. The girl finally looked at him, and she said, "John, you swallow the next mess." Now, I have been sent here to appear before a committee which is composed of experts, and I have not given this subject the study it deserves in order to make a presentable talk here before you. I appear here in response to a telegram, which was sent in haste, for me to take the place of one who was prepared. I have a few thoughts which I had previously prepared in reporting to our grange, an organization of 1 5,000 members, and I want to say right here, gentlemen, that this organization in the State of Connecticut has indorsed the general proposition of parcels post to this extent, that they have unani- mously voted for a parcels post bill, and we have set aside the sum of $5,000 to use it, or as much of it as is necessary, to pay the expanse of educational work in our State to help the people understand the par- cels post and to pay the expenses of anyone whom we saw fit to have appear before the committee. Now, these are the conclusions I had prepared and presented at that time to our members, and which thej^ heartily indorse, and they express my views. The grange, for a term of years, has been in favor of parcels posts. We believe that this work, which we have tried to follow, is along that line, or at least we trust that it is going to reach at this time a climax whereby v.^e shall have at least some sort of parcels post. In New York it was recently brought to the front by the strike among the employees of the express companies. In other parts of the Union it has come naturally to the front as the popular uprising against some of the big interests that have so long monopo- lized and abused the privileges of their franchises. One of our largest rialroad magnates has recently said that the high cost of living can only be remedied by the greater production of farm commodities. We take exception to this, however, and beheve the present high cost of living had its root in the distribution rather than in the production of these farm commodities, and we also believe that the parcels post is a remedy at once obvious, direct, and 144 PARCELS POST. easily applied. In many instances it would wipe out an entire regi- ment of middlemen who stand between the consumer and the pro- ducer. For instance, it would enable the farmer to send his eggs and butter direct to the city customer, over the heads of jobbers, commission merchants, and grocers. We believe that it would mean a saving to the consuming public of a large amount of money each year, and be also a gain to the producer of a large amount of money each year. Express rates, we beheve, would be regulated downward with a chopping knife. May I ask each of you what occurred whea you wished to send some little remembrance to a friend, say, in any of the near-by or far distant cities ? Did you not find that the Government would not accept any package that weighed over 4 pounds, and that it would cost 64 cents to send even one of that size. A neighbor in our town ordered from a western firm a repair part for his creamer, costing 80 cents, and the express charges on the same were $1.20. We do not wonder that the express companies oppose the parcels post. Let our National Government enact for our own territory any one of the several parcels-post agreements that have been made with other countries and we think you have gone a long way toward solv- ing the problem. It is not an experiment, gentlemen. Other coun- tries have adopted the parcels post, and it seems to me it is a success. In the report of the Country Life Commission, which was appointed by a recent President, it was stated that of the 550,000 circular ques- tions sent to as many country residents every one returned the answer that they were in favor of a parcels-dehvery system on our rural routes. There is no question but that a large majority of the people in the whole country are in favor of some measure along the lines of a parcels post. Now, gentlemen, a reference was made here in regard to the delivery of packages on our rural routes. ■ I believe Mr. Gardner has explained that recently, but in our section we are unable to have any packages delivered by our rural carriers. I hve on a star route, where the driver makes two trips a day, and the mail is delivered to our house by virtue of a contract. . That man gets $800 a year for carrying the mail a distance of 36 miles a day, two trips, 9 miles out and 9 miles in, and there is no limit to what he can charge for the size of package or weight of package which he carries. He asks what he has a mind to, and while we do not find fault with that in any way, shape, or form, it does seem to me that the rural carriers should be permitted to do that same work. This gentleman, for instance, makes one and a half times as much by carrying passengers and packages as he does receive for carrying the mail. What is true of that route is true, I know individually, of two other routes in our section. The Chairman. May I ask you at that point if the rural carriers have a lieavy wagon and team instead of a single horse, so as to make delay in the delivery of mail that would be required if heavy pack- ages were carried, and passengers were carried, as on star routes ? Mr. Healey. We have never taken up the passenger service in any way, shape, or form. We have only taken up the question of the limit to the package. The Chaikman. What limit would you make? Mr. Healey. My individual opinion is 11 pounds. PARCELS POST. 145 The Chairman. You mean you would make a limit in the weight of the package, but not a limit in the amount he carried ? Mr. Healet. I do not think, Mr. Chairman, that what the man would have to carry would be cumbersome; that is, as far as I have seen in the East. Now, for instance, the point has been made here that a great many of the rural people hving on these routes would not have the benefit of these things because of the boxes on the crossroads. They are not having equal benefit at the present time The Chairman. You say you want your eggs and butter dehvered by rural carrier. If the eggs and butter were carried by rural carrier, would it not probably make a very great bulk, in weight, and would it not require a great deal of space to carry the package ? Mr. Healey. I do not think so, Mr. Chairman, because the people on that route are not going to send them all on the same day. The Chairman. Well, there are supposed to be a hundred patrons on that route. Mr. Healey. Yes. The Chairman. Would it not be reasonable to suppose that every one of those persons would send in the eggs at least once each week? Mr. Healey. Yes; surely. The Chairman. Once each week ? Mr. Healey. Yes. The Chairman. And that would be between 12 and 20 each day ? Mj. Healey. Yes. The Chairman. Well, between 12 and 20 packages of butter and eggs would make quite a large bulk ? Mr. Healey. It would depend upon the size of the packages; but I think a 2-horse team could do the work without any trouble. Now, the point has been made here that if you would carry the mail and do it expeditiously The Chairman. That is going back to the other question. If he takes a 2-horse team, with a heavy wagon, which would be required for carrying these larger packages, then, necessarily, he could not drive as fast as he could with a single horse and light conveyance. Mr. Healey. That is a point I am going to make. He could not do it as quickly. It might take a whole day's time, but the people on the rural routes now only get their mail once in 24 hours, and it does not make any di.!:erence whether they get it at 7 o'clock in the evening or 12 o'clock at noon. The Chairman. This is the point : Do you think the farmer would be content if his mail were delayed by the carrying of packages ? Mr. Healey. I see no reason why he would not be, because he can not answer his mail until sometime within the next 24 hours. The Chairman. Are you speaking for the farmer when you say they are willing to have that much delay in the deHvery of mail on account of packages ? Mr. Healey. I think the farmers I represent in Connecticut would be only too glad to have the delay in order to have the general delivery. Mr. Gregg. Could that delivery be made to all the places on that route during the morning of any day l Mr. Healey. Yes. 3110—11 10 146 PAKCELS POST, Mr. Gregg. You spoke awhile ago about one carrier having a route covering 9 miles, I believe. Mr. Healby. That is the star route. Mr. Gregg. Well, the star route. That, for instance, could be delivered during the morning ? Mr. Healey. The star route leaves the city of Putnam at half past 10 in the morning and returns to Putnam at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, driving a distance of 18 miles. Mr. Gregg. Do you have in mind any rural delivery by the mail carrier? Mr. Healey. I have not any in mind. Our riiral delivery starts out about half past 10, and on their return they reach the city at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. They could not do it in the forenoon. Mr. IjAfean. Don't you think there would be a delay in the de- livery of the last packages that were collected, say, at 4 or 5 o'clock in the evening, if the rural carrier would not get back to the office until 6 o'clock in the evening ? Mr. Healey. Do you mean at the office to which he returns? Mr. Gregg. Yes. Mr. Healey. If there would be a delay in the delivery. j\Ir. Gregg. In the deliver}'- of butter and eggs coming from some farmer addressed to some patron in town. Mr. Healey. I think they could be delivered before 6 o'clock. He could return within the three extra hours and deliver them. Mr. Gregg. He certainly could not leave even before a given time, when the mail is all in, so, you see, if they left at 10.30 o'clock in the morning and got back at 6 o'clock in the afternoon Mr. Healey. Yes. Mr. Gregg. By reason of the establishment of the parcels post it would necessarily mean some delay. Mr. Healey. They would have three hours to get the mail up. Mr. Gregg. But they could not leave earlier than 10.30 o'clock. Mr. Healey. No. Mr. Gregg. Biit could get back earlier in the evening ? Mr. Healey. Yes. Mr. Gregg. Now, the point is how could a aelivery of a package be made after tlie carrier goes to town, say, at 5 or 6 o'clock in the evening ? Mr. Healey. I think he could deliver them all before 6 o'clock. The Chairman. Would he ever deliver to the post office, or out of the city, to the people to whom they are consigiied ? Here your eggs and butter are gathered up by the rural carrier and he brings them to town. What do you expect him to do with the butter and eggs when he gets them to town ? Mr. Healey. He would have to deliver them to the post office. The Chairman. Now, how would the person to whom the package was assigned obtain it ? Mr. Healey. He would have to go to the post office and receive it. The people in the city would have to carry them home. The Chairman. Then, they go the next day and get them? Mr. Healey. Yes; or that night. I do not befieve there is any question in the mind of anyone that people are asking any parcels post to get off their route. Of course the routes can be extended. PARCELS POST. 147 'he Chairman. But I am getting at the other question of what ir plan was for dehvering the goods in the city. Here is a country- a who sends his package to the city for the benefit of a local .sumer. You are undertaking to get rid of all the middle men; I deliver to the post office. Now, is it to be secured by the con- ler from the post office ? Ir. Healey. From my personal opinion, I am perfectly wiUuig to re that to the committee, but my personal opiaion would be that Government would have to have a special department for that •pose at the place where the delivery starts from. ?ne Chairman. Take your town, and I will let you run the busiaess the present ? ilr. Healey. I would have a special department where, when the al people came ia from their trips they would be put right iuto that )artment, either that night, immediately if there was time, or the [t morning. I would have an automobile delivery that would be king after that department especially, and would dehver those ngs to the consumers in the city. klr. Lafean. How large is j, our town ? ^r. Healey. A little better than 10,000. )JLt. Lafean. You would have an automobile delivery in a town 10,000? Six: Healey. Yes, sir; I surel}^ would. )At. Lafean. You would have it in every town of 10,000 ? \JLt. Healey. It would not be vevj expensive. S/Lv. Lafean. Would you have it in a town of 5,000 ? SSx. Healey. I think where the Government can support a sta- n, a substation, or whatever } ou call it, where rural dehveries go t from, they can support a department of that kind. Mr. Lafean. Has your association ever given any thought to the ancial end of this question 1 Mr. Healey. As an association we have never adopted any reso- ions as to that. As I stated at the beginning of my remarks the smber of our Grange who was to speak here has made a careful idy of it. Mr. Lafean. You do not know of any figures they have in their nds? Mr. Healey. I do not. The Chairman. We, as a committee, are very anxious to get at 3 business end of all of these propositions. We must look at these estions from a business standpoint. You are doing it as a busi- 3S proposition and we would be gratified, indeed, for such infor- ition as may come to us along business lines and practical business sthods in order that we may have practical business results. Mr. Healey. It does not seem to me an absolute necessity that 3 postal department of this Government should be run as a money- iking department. The Chairman. No; I did not mean that. Mr. Healey. I believe we can stand a deficit in that single depart- mt. The Chairman. But, whether there is a deficit or not, one of the •atest business institutions of the world to-day is the Post Office partment. Mr. Healey. Yes, sir; that is right. 148 PABCELS POST. The Chairman. And I do not suppose there is any institution which is known to man that is better conducted than the Post Office Depart- ment of the United States, and our idea is not to do anything in con- nection with postal regulation that would not carry out the idea of the Government to make it purely a business institution. Now, as to whether it should be allowed to show a deficit or not that is another proposition altogether; but I think we are disposed, as nearly as we can — and I think that is the consensus of opinion that has been given from time to time — that we ought to, as nearly as practicable, run the Post Office Department in such a way that its expenses will not be greater than its income. Mr. Gardner. The post office of the Government might suffer a deficit on account of an educational theory for the distribution of intelligence, but I ask if the gentleman feels that where that principle is applied to the transportation of butter, eggs, calico, hams, and purely business matters the Government ought to start the precedent of doing that transportation at a loss ? That is different from the educational feature ? Mr. Healey. In reply to Mr. Gardner I would say this, that it would seem to me that such a proposition could be of so great a benefit to all our people that we might possibly take it up. Of course, there is that economic question involved. Mr. Gardner. Not to argue it, but the transportation by the Government for which the Government would pay a part would, of course, be a great advantage to every citizen of the United States; but to return to the rural delivery matter, let us get your idea. The rural delivery wagon starts out from the town of A at 10.30 ; it passes my house, for instance, at 11. I am 30 minutes out. I put into the wagon some butter addresssed to a person in Philadelphia. Now, that must be hauled all day until it arrives at Bedford at 5 or 6 o'clock in the afternoon. To-morrow morning it will be sent on by mail to Philadelphia. The idea is that then it should be delivered at the post office or some place open to the public, and from there distributed to the addressee. About 24 hours in transit is the best we can do? Mr. Healey. You are beyond me, that is all, Mr. Gardner. Mr. Gardner. Beyond you, how? Mr. Healey. I would not think it was practicable to carry it as far as that. I think the local conditions are going to help more than the long distance. Mr. Gardner. Pardon me, but I just want to get this clear. I do not understand that there is a body of consumers of consequence, as a rule, at the initial point of rural deliveries. If I am going to send the products of the farm to the consumer, I can not find him at the initial part of the rural route, because a half dozen of them start out from the came town ; so that if the rural delivery is going to aid me in reaching the market, there must be a remailing at the initial point of the rural delivery to some other point. Mr. Healey. That is not true of anything that I have personal knowledge of. In the East it is entirely different from that. We have these larger centers where the mail route starts from. Mr. G;ARDNBR. That is all absolutely different from what it is in our section. In other words, it would not be of material value unless you got it into Philadelphia. Mr. Healey. I see. PARCELS POST. 149 Mr. Bell. Let us get back to that rural route which you spoke of hile ago, and which reached your town, you said, at 3 in the ernoon. Mr. Healet. It reaches the place from where it starts. Mr. Bell. What is the necessity for reaching that "town at that ur? Mr. Healey. To connect with the mail car. Mr. Bell. Then, I understood you to say that you believe the reels post would delay it for probably three or four hours. That uld make them reach the town at 6 o'clock instead of 3. Mr. HTealet. Yes ; but we still have a mail train at 6 o'clock. Mr. Bell. Which would mean having your mail delayed three urs ? Mr. Healet. Yes ; the outgoing mail. [would just like to add this to the record, if the committee does t object. It is simply a resolution that was passed by the State islature on the day before yesterday, indorsing the general parcels 3t. The Chaikman. If there is no objection, it will be permitted to be erted. [The newspaper article referred to is as follows:) Parcels Post. •n motion of Representative Fenn, of Wethersfield, the house adopted the following ilution concerning the extension of domestic parcels post without debate. CONCERNING THE EXTENSION OF GENERAL PARCELS POST. General assembly, January session, A. D. 1911. lesolved by this assembly: ECTioN 1. That the Senators and Representatives of this State in the Congress of United States are hereby requested to do all in their power to secure the immediate sage of an act providing for the extension of our domestic general parcels pos't in gtantial accordance with the provisions of a bill entitled "A bill to reduce postal IB, to improve the postal service, and to increase postal revenues," being H. R. 14, ty-second Congress , first session, and providing as folio ws : " That th e common weight it of the domestic postal service of the United States is hereby increased to 11 nds, the common limit of the Universal Postal Union, and that in the general iness of the post office the 1-cent-an-ounce rate on general merchandise fourth-class 1 matter be, and is hereby, reduced to the third-class rate, 1 cent f )r each 2 ounces :action thereof. Sec. 2. That the rate en local letters or sealed parcels posted for delivery within free delivery service is hereby determined at 2 cents on parcels up to 4 ounces, nt on each additional 2 ounces; at nondelivery offices 1 cent for each 2 ounces. Sec 3. That all mail matter collected and delivered within the different rural es of the United States is hereby determined to be in one class, with rates, door oor between the different houses and places of business and the post office or post es on each route, as follows: On parcels up to one- twenty-fourth of a cubic foot, by 6 by 12 inches in dimensions and up to 1 pound in weight, 1 cent; on larger els up to one-half a cubic foot, or 6 by 12 by 12 inches in dimensions and up to ounds in weight, 5 cents; on larger parcels up to 1 cubic foot, 6 by 12 by 24 inches imensions and up to 25 pounds in weight, 10 cents. No parcel shall be over 6 in length and in no case shall a carrier be obliged to transport a load of over 500 ids. Sec 4. That on all unregistered prepaid mail matter without declared value an mnity up to $10 shall be paid by the Post Office Department for such actual loss image as may occur through the fault of the postal service, and this without extra ge. Certificates of posting shall be provided on demand. On registered parcels Bclared value and on which the fee for registration, insurance, and postage has I duly prepaid, the Post Office Department shall pay the full value of any direct 150 PAECELS POST. loss or damage that majr occur through the fault 6£ the postal service. The fees for insurance and registration shall be as follows: For registration and insurance up to $50, 10 cents; for each additional $50, 2 cents. No claini for compensation will be admitted if not presented within one year after the parcel is posted. " Sec . 5. That all acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act are hereby repealed. " Sec 6. That-tbis act shall take effect six months from and after the date of approval thereof." The Chairman. I would like to inquire at this juncture as to what is the further desire of those who wish to be heard. Mr. SuLZER. There are some eight or ten gentlemen here who desire to be heard, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. Do you want to be heard to-day, or shall we ad- journ until morning ? Mr. SuLZER. I think it would be more convenient to some of them to be heard this afternoon, and then to finish to-morrow morning. Mr. Healey. I would like to add just a word. We have a gentle- man here from Connecticut, if you care to hear from him, and he and I together are leaving on the 1.55 train, although it is getting near adjourning time. The Chairman. You have no doubt observed that it is the atti- tude of the committee that we want everybody to be heard who desires to be heard. • Mr. Healey. And I appreciate it, too. Mr. SuLZER. How much time would Mr. Potter occupy ? The Chairman. All right ; we wdl hear Mr. Potter now. STATEMENT OF ME. CHAELES H. POTTEE, CHAIEMAN OF THE WINDHAM COTJBTTY (CONN.) GEANGE LEGISLATIVE COM- MITTEE. Mr. Potter. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee The Chairman. Whom do you represent? Mr. Potter. I represent the Grange in Connecticut. I am chair- man of the legislative committee in Windham County and am here in their interests, to say a word for the parcels post. I am not as well acquainted with the minute details of tliis project as several of my predecessors are, but I want to appear here as a representa- tive of my people and ask that you pass a law that wiU put tin& system into operation, for I believe — and I know that I am backed up by every farmer in our State, nearly all of whom I have come in touch with during the past several years, having traveled over most of the State — that this wiU be a great benefit. If you gen- tlemen could realize the condition of the farmers, the people who afe producing on the farms to-day, I do not believe you would be loath in acting upon this proposition because of the benefits that would inure to commerce. Now, it was said here yesterday by one of your committee that the rural delivery could carry parcels. It has not been so ruled in our section. There is a rural dehvery that runs out from Southbridge. I am 7 miles from that town, a town with probably a population of 12,000 people, and the man on that route was in the habit of deliver- mg to us two daily papers, the Worcester Telegram and the New York World. All at once he stopped delivering the papers and I asked' him why. He said it was the rule of one of the inspectors of the Post Office Department that he should not deliver papers, and hei PARCELS POST. 151 ys, "Mr. Potter, I shall give up the route, because I was makmg ough on my papers to pay for the keep of my horse; and he did ve up the route and another man was sent out on it. The only ly in which we get our papers to-day is by sending to the publishers the paper dealers, and then they come through the mail, just the me as a letter. So, you see, that is not the ruling in our State, presume you are right, but I presume that has not been so ruled in assachusetts, from where our mail comes. Mr. Gardner. In the interest of the record, Mr. Chairman, there is been some ruling of that sort, or else it was put into the act, th regard to the papers, because the papers themselves brought it lOUt. The Chairman. I do not think we need take that up in the record, think I can get the facts about that between now and the time we eet to-morrow morning. I will try to have the facts before us. Mr. Gardner. The papers themselves made the charge that the ral men became solicitors for particular papers, and that ruhng was reed in that particular interest, and has no general apphcation. Mr. Potter. Now, the question has been asked here with regard hampering the rural delivery with large parcels. In our section of e State, our team goes once a week to market, with the general •oducts of the farm. Some go on Mondays, some Tuesdays, some ednesdays, and so on, throughout the week; but on the day we go 3 always have an order from our customers and friends for something at they want during the week. Suppose they want a chicken. I ive a son in the chicken business, and ne sends those chickens every ly by freight. He is the only one in that business, and you can see hat an immense benefit the parcels post would be to him. We do not ant the parcels post to carry all our produce, but when we have a lecial order, we would like to be able to send it that way, and at a asonable cost. So that we have a right to complain of the high pst of living, which is due to these excessive charges. We can not nd one by express. The other day a part of my creamer broke down, and I had to send r the part. The expressage cost me 80 cents, and the cost of the irt was less than that. I had to have that sent by express, because 3 have a large dairy and that was standing idle ; but if we had had a ircels-post system, I could have had that delivered to me, if not iceediag 11 pounds, at a very low rate. The Chairman. Suppose we had the parcels post, and your son, in e chicken business, sends chickens to a town and pays 3 cents a lund, as you suggested. That would be 33 cents for every 1 1 pounds chicken. Do you think he would send them that way? Mr. Potter. His chickens are how much? The Chairman. Well, what you propose is 11 pounds in weight in ickens. That is as much as he could carry under the proposed bill; that the largest package under the proposed bUl would be 1 1 pounds d if the price was 3 cents per pound, it would amount to 33 cents at he would have to pay for carrying his chickens. Mr. Potter. Thirty-three cents would come to $3.30 a chicken. 1 he Chairman. Now, would he do that, or would he send the icken by some other means ? Mr. Potter. It woulii not pay him to drive his team. If be goes the express office, he has to drive several miles, and, of course, he 152 PABCELS POST. has to hitch up his team. He might as well go to town as to the" express office. It is just as near to town as it is to the express oifice, so that lie would have to send it that way or hitch up a team. You can see the condition that that creates in the east. We do not all keep driving horses, but most of them to-day are working their farms with horses. If you .want to keep your customers, you must comply with their wishes; if you do not you loose them. My son has a pair of horses, and if he "stops to carry his chickens that way he must hitch one of tham up and the other will stand idle, whereas if he had a rural carrier passing the house he could take them right to town, and that would save the loss of time and practically the loss of the time of a man. The Chairman. How far is it from your place to town? Mr. Potter. We are 7 miles from town. The Chairman. Your son is 7 miles 'from town ? Mr. Potter. Seven miles; yes, sir. The Chairman. May I inquire as to how many chickens he sells per day? You said he sold chickens every day. Mr. Potter. He sells his chickens as the team goes to market every Friday; but he would have an opportunity to send them nearly every day to his customers, under the parcels post. Mr. Gardner. What rate is proposed, Mr. Chairman ? The CHAIRMA.N. In this particular bill, the Sulzer bill ? Mr. Gardner. Or by the speaker ? The Chairman. "VVTiat rate do you propose for carrying such matter ? Mr. Potter. As I said in the beginning, I am not posted on the details of this. I would leave that to others who are better posted. In closing let me say this, that there is no governmental policy that can be given to the whole American people that would be of such immense benefit as this parcels post; and let me say, gentle-' men, that in my opinion there is no one class of people to whom it would be of greater advantage than to the farmers. It is upon the agricultural people of this country that the success of this Nation depends to-day. There is no class of people who are doing better work to-day than the farmers. We are not asking you to appropri-' ate a large amount of money, but we are asking you to give us a chance and start something that will help the farmers in this country. The Chairman. Would you not say that the success of this country, which we all love, is dependent upon the whole people, and not upon any particular class ? Mr. Potter. I should say upon the farmers, because you could not live were it not for the farmers of this country. If the farmers would stop producing for one year, a condition would arise that has never existed in any nation of the world. Mr. Lafean. But you must have the fellow in the cities, too. Mr. Potter. We could live without the city fellow; but I do not ask, gentlemen — I do not want you to think that I ask this for our class of people alone. The Chairman. You can readily see the point I am making. None of us are in a position to make the claim that we are better or more important than anybody else. This is a wonderful country, and we are very proud of it; we are a homogeneous people ; we are aU together; we are all one people, and all the legislation that is enacted m this PAKCELS POST. 153 intry should be enacted for the whole people and not for any pap- ular class of it. I believe that the retail merchant in the town who uld be injured by this proposition, as nearly everybody admits, is a ad citizen. He deserves the respect and the confidence of the people le is a good moral man and does his duty as a citizen; and I do not nk that legislation should be enacted because it is going to benefit Darticular class, or because that particular class is a little better m anybody else. Mr. PoTTEK. I can not see where it would injure our local mer- a,nt. I know if there is anything I need I would call him up on the ephone, and it would come by rural delivery. That would save r going to town. I do not believe any of us are going oif to trade th other people. I have known our merchants and have traded bh them for years, ever since I went back home to Connecticut, for arly 30 years The Chairman. Then you would be content with a local parcels st which would give you a connection between that local merchant d yourself % Mr. PoTTEK. I would for myself; but, as stated here, there are dif- ent situations in different States. Now, the firm of Sears, Roebuck & Co. has been mentioned here. lave sent them an order and I can do better with my merchant at me, for if my home merchant does not send me what I want I can ie it back and he will change it or return my money; but if you id an order to Sears, Roebuck & Co. and are not satisfied with it 3y will not change it. Mr. Lafean. a moment ago you stated that transportation charges re one of the factors of the high cost of living; is that correct? Mr. Potter. Yes, sir. Mr. Lafean. Well, transportation charges are not the only cause; not that true ? There are other causes besides transportation % Mr. Potter. Yes; I admit that. Mr. Lafean. You are a farmer, are you not % Mr. Potter. Yes, sir. Mr. Lafean. Can you tell me what it costs you to produce a dozen ?s? Mr. Potter. If you were to figure yourself, your wife, andyour help d money invested, it costs you more than you get. We do not are on the farm for services at all, and we do not figure- on the ^estment in the farm. I do not figure on getting any income on ) investment in my farm. liir. Lafean. Then, you do not run your farm on a business basis. Six. Potter. I try to. \lr. Lafean. Don't you think a farmer should know what each icle costs him to raise ? !ilr. Potter. Well, if we should figure in our time and interest on ' investment — I could figure it ; I know just what the income on my m is klr. Lafean. Have you any idea at aU as to what it costs a farmer produce a dozen eggs % \lx. Potter. No; I nave never figured it out. kir. Lafean. Don't you think a farmer should know that ? ilr. Potter. If he did, I am afraid he .would not produce them. tfr. Lafean. He would not % 154 PABCEIiS POST. Mr. Potter. No, sir; it costs so much. If he charged for his time and labor and interest on his investment, I do not beheve nine out of ten would produce anything. Most of the people in my neighbor- hood are satisfied if they get around and pay the help and come out even with their bills, without figuring their own time and their wives' time and their children's time and the interest on the investment. The Chairman. Do you mean that if, at the end of the year, you can balance accounts and show that you are worth as much as you were at the beginning of the year, you have done well ? Mr. Potter. And my implements and everything are in good shape, The Chairman. Is not that the situation with the average man in the country ? If, at the end of the year, he can figure out that he is in as good condition financially as he was at the beginning of the year, everything considered, it makes no difference what he invested, he is usually regarded as being in a pretty good condition ? Mr. Potter. I do not think so, Mr. Chairman. I did not think so when I was in business. I wanted to make something and lay it by. The Chairman. Don't you, on the farm, want to lay something by ? Mr. Potter. I would like to, but we do not. Mr. Lafean. Wltat is the cause of the farms in the West canceling their mortgages and paying off their indebtedness ? Mr. Potter. I am not versed in the conditions in the West; but, as I understand it, the success of the western people is not due to what they produce, but to the increase in the value of their farms. I was talking to a gentleman a number of days ago and he told me that he went out there and bought a large tract of land, but he never made anything out of the farm. He is in a condition to-day to retire by selling that farm, by cuttiug it up into small farms and selling it; but he did not arrive at that condition by what he produced on his farm. It was the increase in the valuation of what he purchased in the first place. I think you wi\l find that that is generally the case. Mr. Gardner. How does it come about economically that there is an increase of the value of a thing that does not pay ? Mr. Potter. Well, of course, our population is increasing all the time. There are hundreds and thousands coming to this country every year and they must do something, and a large proportion of these people who come in here go to the West and buy farms. Of course, if they buy them they have to pay what those owners who have purchased them in years gone by are asking for them. I think that accounts for the value of their farms — ^not because they are producing such incomes that a man would want to continue with them. That is the way I understand it. I may not be correct in my under- standing. The Chairman. Have you anything further on this question of parcels post ? Mr. Potter. That is all. Mr. Gregg, Are you the gentleman who stated that your son is in the chicken business ? Mr. Potter. Yes, sir, Mr. Gregg. Is he in the chicken business exclusively, or is that just incidental to his general farming work ? Mr. Potter. That is his specialty. He farms, but that is his specialty. He devotes more time to the chicken business than to anything else. PARCELS POST. 155 Mr. Gregg. He makes money out of the chicken business? Mr. Potter. Well, I can't say that he does. I suppose if his ther did not help him at the end of the year, he would be dead, Hke me of the rest of them. I want you to understand that I did not ake this money on the farm, either. I thank you. The Chairman. Shall we have an afternoon session? Mr. SuLZER. Mr. Chairman, in that connection I have a meeting of lother committee which I must attend this afternoon. I have given le list of speakers to Judge Wilhams, of Arkansas, who -will present le speakers this afternoon. The Chairman. Very well; then we will take a recess until 2.30 clock p.m. (Whereupon, at 1 o'clock p. m., the committee took a recess until 30 o'clock p. m.) AFTER RECESS. The committee met pursuant to the taking of recess. The Chairman. Now, Mr. Williams, you may go ahead. Mr. Williams. We wUl hear now from Mr. Cyrus W. Zimmer, of ;e American Poultry Journal. STATEMENT OF MR. CYEUS W. ZIMMER. Mr. Zimmer. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am here in behalf of le breeders of fancy poultry, who have occasion to ship their poultry rer the express companies' lines, and we have an organization lown as the American Poultry Association, which has about 2,000 embers. We have not, as an organization, passed any resolution^ favor of parcels post, but we have appointed committees to inves- jate the abuses which the breeders have sustained in shipping their >ultry throughout the country by the express companies, and the sociation would be only too glad as a whole and individually to ive you pass a parcels post measure, which would carry the ship- ents of eggs for hatching, and I bejieve that you could handle our restock for us. The Chairman. Could you fix eggs in packages — small packages — as not to be in danger of breaking ? Mr. Zimmer. Yes, sir ; we fix eggs in small packages and in packages at are made so strongly that they will stand a thousand pounds sight. I have seen express drivers fire them into the express com- ny's wagon 20 feet; and if they will stand that abuse, TJncle Sara n certainly handle them. The Chairman. Uncle Sam handles his mail pretty roughly, some- nes. Mr. Zimmer. I know that. They would not hardly stand the catch- r in these mail cars, or by those arms on which they catch mail gs, but they will stand a great deal of abuse and could be packed' th excelsior around the packages and be so arranged that they would t be broken. The Chairman. Have you looked into the question enough to know, lat you would say would be the proper Hmit of weight of the parcel f 156 PAECBLS POST. Mr. ZiMMEK. Well, we have not done that as an organization Personally I beUeve for a beginning that 11 pounds would be very- nice. The Chairman. Now, how much of a package of eggs, or how many- eggs, could you send and have them included in the 11-pound pack- age? Mr. ZiMMEE. Well, we can send two settings of eggs easily enough. One setting of eggs weighs about 4 pounds, the way we pack them now; about 4 or 4^ or 5 pounds, the way we have to pack them in cartons now. The Chairman. Two settings, you say, could be carried ? Mr. ZiMMER. Yes, sir; two, possibly three. About two settings in a carton would be all we could carry; but we could pack them in suffi- cient packages at 11 pounds, with a weight limit of 11 pounds. The Chairman. Have you shipped any by mail under existing law? Mr. ZiMMER. Have we shipped any now? ' The Chairman. Yes. Mr. ZiMMER. We have not; no, sir. I have never heard of a ship- ment of eggs under the present parcels-post limit of 4 pounds ; but we would-be very glad to do so, and at 11-pound weight, and we could deliver a limited service in that way. We could even ship one hen. A bird weighs about 6 or 7 pounds, and we could ship one bird in that way, if they were included in the schedule. The Chairman. The one bird would be all right at 11 pounds, would it not ? Mr. Zimmer. Yes, sir. The Chairman. You could not ship turkeys or other large fowls? Mr. Zimmer. No, sir; we could not. Then, there is a good business to-day throughout the country in the shape of day-old chicks — a tremendous business. One man I know of said he could have sold 150,000 day-old chicks if he had had them. There are mammoth incubators being sold to-day that -will hold as high as 10,000 eggs at a time, and some even larger than that. The demand for day-old chicks is something tremendous. The express companies handle those fairly well. We have special cartons pre- pared for the shipment of these day-old chicks. They handle them fairly well, and the man who raises or produces the chicks guarantees safe delivery and refunds in cases where death is reported, generally. The Chairman. What is your complaint of the express companies at this time — that they do not properly handle your eggs, or is it because of delays or because of accidents ? Mr. Zimmer. All three, the combination of all three. We have numbers of accidents, of chickens being smothered, very valuable birds being smothered; and in the shipment of live poultry we are compelled to sign a live contract blank which releases the express company from all liability, and we are compelled to pay a valuation limit of $5. The Chairman. Do you think it would be -wise for the Government to enter into the transportation of live stock of any kind ? Mr. Zimmer. I do not see why it would not, with live stock similar to poultry, which is not heavy. I do not think it would be hardly wise to say that the Government should transport an animal like a hog or a bull. PAECELS POST. 157 The Chairman. How would you have the Government handle lultry, live poultry, shipped throiigh the mails ? Mr. ZiMMEE. Well, it would have to be shipped in express cars, nilar to the method in which "the express companies handle them. The Chairman. Then the Government would have to go into the press business in order to carry that kind of parcel ? Mr. ZiMMER. Well, yes; although possibly no more than it would it carried any other parcel of 11 pounds weight. The Chairman. It, of course, could not carry it in a mail sack ? Mr. Zimmer. No, sir. The Chairman. All mail is carried in mail sacks at the present ne. Mr. Zimmer. Yes, sir. The Chairman. There would have to be some other container in lich to place the articles being shipped or transported. Mr. Zimmer. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Not a mail sack. Mr. Zimmer. I wish to say for your information that we poultry eeders always supply a very suitable coop. The breeders buy em knocked down and put them up. There are a great many eeders who buy second hand boxes and remodel them. The ajority of breeders provide a very suitable one, suitable for hand- ig the birds, and is so arranged that the bird can get air and can it be smothered unless the boxes are absolutely piled in and all ound on all sides with other solid parcels. The Chairman. Do you want to make any further statement? Mr. Zimmer. Well, the only thing I have is a letter here from the esent president of the American Poultry Association, on an ofl&cial iter head, in which he says he indorses this matter, and that he lows that the members of the association are in favor of a parcels- ist bUl. And I have a telegram and personal letter from the in- ming president, who will take his ofiBce in August at our annual eeting. I can speak for the secretary of the association and for rge numbers of the members with whom I have talked personally. f business is soUciting advertising, and I go out among the eeders, and I hear all of their troubles and complaints with the press companies, and I am therefore familiar with the feeling of r members. I can speak for the secretary-treasurer of the asso- ition, as well as a large mass of the members. I have a telegram re from the incoming president, saying that he is wiring Judge Don, who, I believe, is The Chairman. Chairman of the Post Of&ce Committee. Mr. Zimmer. Yes, sir; that he is wiring him as to his opinion. Mr. CowLES. Do you know the name of the president ? Mr. Zimmer. The president of the American Poultry Association Mr. Charles M. Bryant, of Boston, Mass. The secretary- treasurer S. T. Campbell, of Mansfield, Ohio, and the incoming president, LOse name I mentioned. Do you wish this letter to be filed ? The Chairman. It is not necessary, unless you desire it. Mr. Zimmer. Yes, sir. We have a great many cases that I could B, but I do not care to- take up the time of the committee to cite sm, as to the troubles we have had with the express companies' 158 PABCEIS POST. negligence, and so forth. I do not think these things would occur if the parcels-post measure were adopted and we could handle our stock in that way. The Chairman. Who is the next speaker, Mr. WiUiams ? Mr. Williams. Mr. George P. Hampton. STATEMENT OF GEOEGE P. HAMPTON. The Chairman. First state whom you represent. Mr. Hampton. I represent the State granges of Maine, Kentucky, Colorado, South Dakota, Oregon, and Washington; the Farmers' National Committee on Postal Reform; and the Postal Express Federation. The Chairman. What is the Postal Express Federation? Mr. Hampton. The Postal Express Federation is an organization that is now in process of formation. It is an outgrowth of the con- ference on parcels post which was held in this city on the the 25th and 26th of last April. At that conference a large number of .dele-. gates were present representing different bodies, and there was a gen- eral feeling that greater unity of action was desirable. This resulted in the appointment of a committee to consider the matter and the adoption of a resolution providing for the appointment of a special committee to organize a postal express federation which would unite all different people who desired to see a modern parcels post estab- lished. I have a copy of the report of the parcels post conference which I made to the Farmers ' National Committee on Postal Reform, which includes the resolutions and recommendations adopted by the conference. These recommendations and resolutions are what I desire to bring especially to the attention of this committee. First I submit the recommendations covering desired legislation. That this conference urge upon Congress that it favor the widest extension of the postal function of the Government in the form of a postal express for the carriage of parcels. That among the essential features of such a system we feel called upon to insist upon the following: 1. Complete monopoly in the postal system for the transportation of all matter by law made mailable. 2. Rates therefor sufficient to pay cost of the service. 3. Provision for the insurance of mail matter at reasonable rates. 4. And further, since the express companies, under their contracts with the rail- ways are seciuing an average rate of three-fourths of a cent per pound and the postal department is paying an average of 4 cents per pound for mail matter. Congress is urged to consider whether the postal function should not properly be extended to include the express service, thus securing for the transportation of parcels the cheap rail rates of the express companies. That looking to a partial accomplishment of the principles above set forth, we urge the immediate adoption of the following recommendations in the law: (a) That the word "packet" wherever used in laws relating to the postal service, means all matter which is by law made mailable. (b) That the common weight limit of domestic postal express service of the United States be increased to 11 pounds, the common weight limit of the Universal Postal. Union The Chairman. Just one moment. Is the word package anywhere used in the postal law ? Mr. Hampton. "Mailable packet." Mr. Williams. Yes; the word "package" is used. Mr. Hampton (continuing reading) : PAKCELS POST. 159 : And that in the general business of the post office, the 1 cent an ounce rate on general merchandise — ^fourth-class mail matter — be reduced to the third-class rate, 1 cent of each 2 ounces or fraction thereof. (c) That general merchandise — fourth-class mail matter — delivered to any post office, without the collection service of the receiving post office and to be called for by- consignee at post office or branch post office to which it is addressed, be carried at the following rate: One pound or fraction thereof, 5 cents and 2 cents for each additional pound or fraction thereof, up to 11 pounds for 25 cents. That this post office to post office service be restricted to a haul of not to exceed 50 miles, and for the purpose of this service the rural delivery wagon shall be considered the post office from which it receives and delivers mail for such route, and that stamps to be attached to packages in payment for this last-described service should be of a distinct color and size. The conference after thorough and extended discussion also adopted the following resolution: Whereas the House Post Office Committee in 1844 reported that the unlawful business of express companies in carrying mail matter raises a question no less momen- tous than this: Whether the Constitution and by-laws of the country or a lawless combination of refractory individuals shall triumph; and Whereas ever since the practice of express companies in carrying mail matter has been unlawful and is founded upon fraudulent and criminal violations of the law, and, Whereas such unlawful business is depleting the revenues of the postal service no less than $50,000 per day: Therefore be it Resolved, That we demand that the Post Office Department, the Department of Jus- tice, and Congress promptly see to it that such unlawful business be no longer allowed, and that section .181 of Criminal Code be promptly and efficiently enforced. Those were the most important resolutions and actions of this conference, and they have been made the basis of the actions that have been taken since by the organization that I represent. I now submit the resolution which was made the basis for the organization of the Postal Express Federation: Whereas many of the individuals and delegates attending the convention of the. Postal Progress League, held at Washington, D. C, April 25 and 26, 1911, believe tlia the movement for the establishment of a parcels post or postal express would be greatly facilitated by the enlargement of the fields of operation realized or contemplated by the Postal Progress League as at first orga-nized, and Whereas at said convention a committee was duly appointed to devise and pro- pose a plan for such an organization as will render it possible to give greater impetus to the movement and command greater influence in its behalf: Therefore be it Resolved by the individuals and delegates attending said convention in meeting assembled, That an organization be perfected, to be known as the "National Postal Express Federation," to be composed of all persons, firms, and corporations interested in the establishment of means whereby the Government of the United States shall, through its postal service, carry parcels at reasonable rates; and be it Resolved, That a temporary executive committee of five be elected at this meeting, ■with power to appoint subcommittees to represent the several States and Territories of the United States of America, and to perfect a suitable organization to the end desired. The Cha'irman. Now, who were the five names ? Mr. Hampton. The five members of the executive committee elected by the conference were F. W. Burkart, 145 East Genesee Street, Buffalo, N. Y., representing the American Dyers' and Cleaners' Association — and I beUeve they have a delegate to represent them and to address you here at this meeting; Wilham T. Creasy, Cata- wissa, Pa., master Pennsylvania State Grange; George P. Hampton; George J. Kindel, manufacturer, Denver, Colo., and Frederick F. Ingram, Detroit, Mch. Mr. Ingram represented the Michigan State Grange at the conference, and also the Manufacturing Perfumers' Association. 160 PABCBLS POST. Now, I do not intend to take up your time to make any argument; because we have our counsel, Mr. WUliams, here, who wm make an extended argument in support of this measure. I simply wanted to bring these things before you, but I do want to say that The Chairman. You spoke of him as counsel. He represents what ? Mr. Hampton. The Farmers' National Committee on Postal Reform and also the Postal Express Federation. He is only tem- porarilj^ engaged for that purpose: but in searching over the country we came to the conclusion he was one of the most thoroughly posted lawyers on this measure that we knew. The arrangements are at present only tentative The Chairman. They engaged him for this hearing ? Mr. Hampton. Engaged him for this hearing. Now, since that conference has taken place, a number of different State grangers have taken action. Two of the State grangers have had their State meet- ings — Oregon and Washington. They have both passed resolutions indorsing the action taken by the representatives at that conference, and I have resolutions that have been passed by those two State organizations here, and if it is permissible for entry on the minutes of the committee I will be glad to present them. Here is one from the Oregon State Grange : FBOM OKEGON STATE GHANGE. CoRVALLis, Oreg., May 10, 1911. George P. Hampton, Secretary Farmers' National Committee on Postal Reform and Representative of Progressive State Granges, Washington, D. C: Oregon State Grange demands that the parcels-post privileges enjoyed by every other civilized nation and by foreign citizens in our Nation be accorded to American citizens. Adopted by Oregon State Grange in regular annual session May 10, 1911. (Signed) 0. B. Spence, Master Oregon State Grange. FROM WASHINGTON STATE GRANGE. Snohomish, Wash., June 8, 1911. George P. Hampton, ^ West One hundred and first Street, New YorJc City: Whereas most of the civilized world, except the United States, have a modern, cheap, and profitable system of the parcels post; and Whereas the National Grange and farm organizations throughout the country have for years urged upon Congress the crying need of such postal reform; and Whereas the present conditions and the proposed increase of the newspaper postage rates are unjust and intolerable; and Whereas former Postmasters General and Presidents of the United States have sup- ported these proposed reforms with full and complete evidence of their justice and urgent need; and Whereas the opposition to such legislation is largely confined to the express com- panies, special-privilege interests, and those influenced by the powerful lobby main- tained at the expense of an untold amount of money; and ^'hereas the Government has now all the paraphernalia needed for this businesa and the trained employees to handle it: Therefore, be it Resolved by the Washington State Grange in its twenty-third annual session assembled at Snohomish, Wash., June 6 to 9, 1911, That we, 20,000 strong, demand the following postal reforms, viz: A modern general parcels post, such as is provided for in the Sulzer bill (H. R, 9844), or some equally good measure, a rural parcels post at a lower rate, extension, and improvement in postal savings banks, giving all the people the benefits thereof, maintenance of second-class mail rate at 1 cent per pound, aboUsh- ment of the free-seed humbug, reform in railroad-mail contracts, correction of the PARCELS POST. 161 abuses of the franking privilege, and the establishment of every department of the postal service on a sound business basis; and Be it further resolved, That a special vote of thanks be, and hereby is, extended to the officers and executive committee of the Farmers' National Committee on Postal Eeform and all others who have so ably and efficiently assisted in the campaign for a parcels post; and Be it further resolved, That our executive committee and worthy State master are hereby instructed to assist the Farmers' National Committee on Postal Reform and the Postal Express Federation in all reasonable ways possible to make the purpose of their existence a success; and Be it further resolved. That Brother George P. Hampton, of New York, is hereby appointed to represent us in Washington, D. C, in all matters pertaining to postaJ reforms, and that copies of these resolutions be immediately sent to our Congressmen and Senators, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, the chairmen of the Senate and House Committees on Post Offices and Post Roads, to Conwessman Wilham Sulzer, and to the members of the executive committees of the Farmers' National Committee on Postal Reform, and the Postal Express Federation, and to the press for publication. Signed by the committee. Alson W. Stbbes. D. L. Kline. Rodney C. Dodge. R. C. McCeoskey. a. l. bogarth. Frank Fields. The Chairman. Do you understand that they would fix the postal rate at 12 cents a pound and the weight at 11 pounds? Mr. Hampton. I might say here in regard to that, the recommenda- tions are that the weight be 11 pounds, but their complete recom- mendations would cover a broader extension of the service whenever the conditions of the country or the evidence, before Congress would warrant that extension. The principles as laid down there are the practical propositions urged upon Congress at the present time. There have been since that conference took place three bUls intro- duced in the Congress that harmonized with the recommendations of that conference. First, there is the Sulzer bill, H. R. 9844. And the Howard biU, H. R. 8386. The Lewis biU is within the scope of the recommendations of the conference, although we have not beefl able as yet to consider it in all its details, but it appeals to us as per- haps comprehensively covering the ultimate solution of the parcels- post problem. Mr. Hampton. Now, the demands of the different State granges^ and the action of the National Grange over a series of years m favor of parcels post are set forth in this pamphlet. The Chairman. It is not necessary for that to go into the minutes. Mr. Hampton. No; I understand that is against the rule of the committee, but I desire to present copies to the members of the committee. Mr. Gardner. Do these contain the quotations from the report of 1844 ? Mr. Hampton. No; that quotation is in the record. I can give you a copy, if you would desire it. The Chairman. Mr. Williams will bring that out in his testimony and will refer to it. Mr. Gardner. Do you know whether as a matter of fact that the abuse that is complained of is remedied ? Mr. Hampton. I behve not; but I wont't take up the time 3110—11 11 162 PARCELS POST. Mr. Gardner. Can you send mailable first-class matter by express now without stamping it ? Mr. Hampton. No; I believe not. I think this question relates to the interpretation of the word "packet," and Mr. Williams wiU bring that out, as he will address himself particularly to that point. I'he demand of the farmers for a modern parcels post is universal. However much they may be divided on other matters they are united in their desire for legislation by this Congress establishing a general parcels post that shall indeed compare favorably with the parcels post of other leading nations. The farm press and the farm organic zations are united in this demand and I siroply submit here from the current issue (June) of the Pennsylvania Grange News, the official organ of the Pennsylvania State Grange, the announcement of the State master, which shows the spirit in wliich the farmers of the country are uniting to meet the present situation: [From the Pennsylvania Grange News, June, 1911.1 OFFICIAL COMMUNICATIONS FKOM THE STATE MASTER. To the officers and members of Subordinate and Pomona Granges: The most important matter of national legislation in which the grange is interested now is parcels post. I want every member of the order in Pennsylvania to be in- formed upon this important matter and to do his part in bringing action upon a bill, through his Congressman and United States Senators. Get busy on parcels post from now on until we have a law which will do away with this wicked express graft and permit us to have equal privileges in carrier's service with the remainder of the civilized world. Read the editorial on this subject in this issue. Do not let the warm weather interfere with progress. Do not go to sleep. We must keep right on the job in season and out. Fraternally, yours, William T. Crea.st, Master, State Grange. That is the spirit in which the farmers are bestirring themselves to bring legitimate influence upon Congress to secure the enactment of legislation that they desire. These papers and copies of resolutions that I have given you show that the farm organizations all over the country have been passing resolutions for years and years asking for this legislation, and now they feel that the time for action is here. There are about 500 farm papers in this country and I do not know of any which I would call a Bona fide farm paper, with the exception of possibly one, that is not indorsing the parcels post. Of the many that come to my desk, I submit a few showing how they are pushing parcels post. This is the Missouri and Kansas Farmer, and this the Practical Farmer, of Philadelphia, and this is an advance editorial from the Farm Maga- zine which was forwarded to me in advance of pubHcation — it comes out on June 15 of this month. There is a copy of Farm and Fireside, with a full page editorial signed by Mr. Herbert Quick, who addressed you this morning. The Chairman. Has the zone theory been discussed to any con- siderable extent in the grange ? Mr. Hampton. The zone system that is advocated by the con- ference, and that was supported by Mr. Quick here this morning in his argument, did not come up for discussion and consideration until PAECBLS POST. 163 an investigation of the rural parcels post, which we originally advo- cated, began to show its defects, and that it would not meet the requirements of the farmers. You can take any grange — my grange is in Clarksville, Albany County, N. Y. Clarksville is a village from which no rural route runs. It is the natural trading center of the farmers of that district, and the rural route from which the farmers get their mail from one side comes from Voorheesville, wliich is about 9 miles away, and from Delmar on the other side, about the same distance; and they take in the section of country around there and cover the farmers who trade in Clarksville. The special rural route parcels post would discriminate against Clarksville. It would compel these farmers to trade in Voorheesville and Delmar. The Chairman. Does not the rural route run through that town ? Mr. Hampton. No; Clarksville itself is on a star route. Probably, I think there are, all told, on that star route about four rural deliveries that are not touched by the regular star route; otherwise the village is without postal facilities except from its own post office on the star route. So that Clarksville would be discriminated against unless you adopt the zone system. And what is true of Clarksville is true of hundreds and thousands of other places throughout the United States. Then, of course, as Mr. Quick told you this morning, there are a good many places Hke Madison, Wis., that are so situated that the routes do not run from the business center, but outlying places. That is aU I have to say, gentlemen. The Chairman. Do you want to ask him anything ? Mr. Gardner. It is nevertheless true, is it not, that in a case hke that named in Wisconsin a parcels-post could not, from the initial point on the rural route, be of very great assistance or benefit; that is to say, the towns from which the rural routes start are generally within the dehvery radius .of the cities, are they not ? Mr. Hampton. I think that is true; yes. Mr. Gardner. So that things bought in these cities by maU would be deHvered by the seller to the post office from which the rural routes emanated? Mr. Hampton. Well, that might possibly be the solution, but that would only be Mr. Gardner. No; that does not solve it, because there is another end to it. Mr. Hampton. That might be true; but, of course, you under- stand that would certamly only be of advantage to those city stores having delivery wagons which would make deliveries to these out- lying points. There are a great many stores which do not have such delivery facihties. It is only the very large department stores that have such a perfect delivery service as that. Mr. Gardner. It would not help at all the shipment of things from the country to the city ? Mr. Hampton. No; as far as the delivery of the farmers' products to the city is concerned it would not facilitate it a particle or offer any solution of the problem. Mr. Williams. Mr. William A. Foster, representing the dyers and cleaners of the United States. 164 PABCBLS POST. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM A. FOSTER, ESQ. ' Mr. Foster. Did I understand the chairman of the committee to say yesterday that there would be no indorsement placed in the record ? I have noticed that in regard to the letters and telegrams offered by Mr. Sulzer that you did not want them in the record. Now, I am simply giving an indorsement of an organization The Chairman. We do not object, of course, to a single indorse- ment. Mr. Sulzer was undertalang to put into the record a great number of telegrams which he had received. Mr. Foster. I am simply asking for information. The Chairman. If you represent an organization and that organi- zation has passed a resolution Mr. Foster. Yes, they have. As it stands now, and as we heard this morning, I was to represent the National Florists' Association, but I was able to get Mr. Gude, who is one here in this city, and he has done it a great deal better than I could do, and the consequence is I have with me their recommendations in regard to this bill in their letter asking me to indorse any one of the three bUls — the Howard biU or Mr. Lewis's bih, that they had heard about, providing they could get some bill out from this committee on to the House so that we could get an expression of the opinions. The florists have been before you and the farmers, and now I am representing here the dyers and cleaners of the United States. The Chairman. What kind of an organization is that ? Mr. Foster. It is an organization, as I understand it, of 68,000 people. They are an organization at the present time that through the different dyers and cleaners have organized themselves into a national body of about 500. This position they have taken now not only represents the desires of those who are connected with the United States organization, but with Canada. They have on their board one of the Canadian members. The Chairman. 'V^Tiat class of dyers ? Mr. Foster. Simply anybody is allowed to be aflHiated with the organization that is either a dyer or a dyer and cleaner ; the cleaning of clothes is amenable to the membership of that organization. The Chairman. But, generally, what do you understand by "cleaner"? Mr. Foster. A man that does pressing and cleaning and things of that kind. The Chairman. It refers, then, to clothing ? Mr. Foster. Yes. The Chairman. Dyers and cleaners have reference to clothing ? Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Dyers of cloth and cleaners of clothing ? Mr. Foster. Dyers of cloths and things of that description. Mr. Hampton. Drapery. Mr. Foster. Yes. And they have indorsed the Sulzer bill. The Chairman. How are they interested in the parcels post ? Mr. Foster. I am not going to answer that, because I do not think that the dyers and cleaners know much more about it than I do, and I am pretty sure I don't know much about it; but they have got an PARCELS POST. 165 impression that the parcel post will be of benefit to them. A good many of them studied it as much as they can in their business; they have got it into their minds that they ought to have some legisla- tion in regard to a parcels post. Now, that part of it I am perfectly Eositive could be worked out by you people much better than it could e worked out by the dyers and cleaners. Wliatever is worked out in regard to a parcels post they will try to be very glad for, but they would like, as I understand it, a report of some kind. The Chairman. I would like to get at the question of how they are to be benefitted by it. Mr. Foster. They have got the impression that they will be, and that, I know, is clear in their minds, and it is clear in mine. I never heard of a parcels post, or the term, until within six months, and I am thoroughly in favor of it — but I don't know anything about it. The Chairman. You are the best witness we have had. Mr. Foster. I don't know about that, but that is the condition I am stating. The Chairman. The dyers and cleaners believe it wiU increase their trade ? Mr. Foster. They beheve it is something they need; I am per- fectly positive of that. I have got it in my mind and I am going to tell it my own way. I don't know anything about routes. I do know that Mr. Lewis knows more about routes than any other man in this business here, and I believe that Mr. Sulzer — either one of them thinks it is necessary. My people have got it in their minds, and they have it in their mind they want it expressed here, and we hope you people will be able to find a bill that will pass this Congress so that it can be taken care of in the Senate. Mr. Gardner. Is it not apparent that the dyers and cleaners of draperies and clothes and cloth could utilize the parcels post ? Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Is there anything further ? Mr. Foster. I hope I have represented them satisfactorily to you people. The Chairman. I think you have represented them very well, myself. Mr. Williams. I had expected Mr. William S. Howard would be present to make some observations upon his special measure, and after that it appears to be about time for me to be taking a httle hand in this myself. Mr. CowLES. We have two lady friends here who represent the women of the United States, and I will say that a number of the ladies of New York have indorsed the general proposition up there in their circles— the first Sulzer bill. We shall be very glad if you will give these ladies a hearing. The Chairman. We shall be very glad to hear them. Mr. CowLES. I wiU introduce Miss GUlett. 166 PAECBLS POST. STATEMENT OF MISS EMMA M. GIILETT, CHAIRMAlf OF THE CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE NATIONAL AMERICAN WOMAN'S SUFFRAGE ASSOCIATION. Miss GiLLETT. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I have the honor to come before this honorable committee and to represent the National American Woman's Suffrage Association of the United States. I suppose it is generally considered that speakers before this committee are those who have such a stake in the Government that they may be able to cast their votes for or against whatever they desire. My apology for appearing here may or might be what our friends say, and that is that if a woman wants anything done by our law- makers the lawmakers themselves will be so chivalrous as to disregard all vested rights or economic principles, that all we have to do is to appear before them and ask for what we want. Were this proposition true, then I am very sure that there would be such a modification of the existing postal laws, probably on the lines of the Sulzer bill, as would add to the freedom with which parcels may be transmitted through the mails. But we women have not found in our past experience that being disfranchised has the effect mentioned. But we come before you to-day with confidence, because of all the disfranchised ones — the alien, idiot, lunatic, minor, Indian not taxed, and the men of the District of Columbia — we are the only ones who have for 60 years maintained an organization demanding from the people of the United States and these various States that the right of suffrage be granted to us, and as the result of that demand in 28 States we have put partial suffrage, and in 5 States we have fuU suffrage; so we are not entirely disfranchised. And we have also now campaigns carried on in five States. As a result of the campaigns in five States we find that at our suffrage headquarters in New York City, where there is great demand for literature and where we have to furnish our literature and pay postage on it — we have no franking privileges — that when there comes a demand from California, for instance, from Kansas, from Wisconsin, that if we send it by post we have to make the package of 4 pounds, and if it requires a package of a large number of pounds — if it requires a good many pounds — it becomes very expensive. It we attempt to send by express it becomes expensive. It costs to put it up in small packages. We are therefore restricted as a poUtical order in propa- gating our work, if you choose to call us in that way. Then, when we found that point, it suggested itself to me. Why not have our printing done nearer where it is needed? Again it came, Why not have all manufactures done nearer where they are needed? I have traveled very little, but I have never taken a trip yet but what I found somewhere the site of a factory town where the work had been discontinued because the trusts and the corporations had done away with it. You all know how the work of the women has gone out of the home. Why? We used to make all our own soap and candles and hght. Light is now in the hands of corporations. All of those things — I have not time to discuss them — all of those things have now become merchandise, and the woman in the home needs to secure those at the lowest rate that she can. Therefore PAKCELS POSX. 16,7 there comes the need for keeping the woman in the home, that she should have as low a rate as possible. I fear what I say is going to be a Uttle disconnected. I had not expected to go into this part of the question at all. I came up here for a few moments, and I had only expected to say that the women of America want these bills passed or some modification of the postal rates. I heard one of the gentlemen of the committee say that the question was, as I understand, how the income and the outgo of the Post Office Department could be made near to one another; that that was the question they wanted to discuss here. It does not seem to me that that was right, gentlemen. When three branches of the Gov- ernment — the executive, the judiciary, and the legislative — are con- sidered, we do not expect each one to be self-supporting. Take the legislative branch. Even if you have reduced the expenses of your legislation, you have not changed the ratio as between income and outgo, because I do not understand that you have any income. Take the judiciary. I do not see that any change in that changes the ratio, because there is no income. The outgo may be increased; it may be lessened. I say it is no income, but all outgo. Coming down to your departments, you may find in some of them income, but it is very small, with the probable exception of the Post Office and some parts of the Interior Department — the Patent and the Land Offices. There is one department, the Post Office Department, which is the only department in the whole bunch that goes to.everj^ little home in the country — in tevery city, in every hamlet, and to every home. It may be the most humble, but there is the post office waiting upom it. On the other hand, there is no home in this whole country, however humble, but what pays the taxes to support this Govern- ment. Now, I hold that if the postal service can be made to serve the homes, it is no question of income and outgo. It is what is best for the people of the country. If it is wise to take the taxes that the humble homes pay to build navies and support armies and for various other of the outgoes of the country, then it is right and fair that such a service should be given by this one executive branch of the Gov- ernment as shall be good for the people, and that the question of income and outgo should not be raised in connection with them. It is merely a question of what is best for the welfare of the people, which we have m the preamble of our great Constitution. The Chairman. Would you do away with the postal rates? Miss GiLLETT. With postal rates? Oh, no. I never beheved in anybody's getting something for nothing, and I think there should be some postal rates paid, but I think I have not gone into this ques- tion enough to know exactly where the line should be drawn, but certainly I do believe that the question as to whether the post office will support itself is not vital to this question. It is a question of what is to be for the best good of the country everywhere, and I would put the rates at the lowest point that a self-respecting person would be wiUing to pay. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. CowLES. I will be glad to have you hear from Miss Hifton. 168 PAECELS POST. STATEMENT OF MISS HAERIETTE J. HIFTOX, PEESIDENT STATE EQUAI SUFFEAGE ASSOCIATION OF THE DISTEICT OF COIUMBIA. Miss HiFTON. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I have come here as a direct representative of the National Associa^ tion. We have published in one of our newspapers, or the newspaper of the National Association, our idea of the overcharge we were com- pelled to pay for the transmission of woman's suffrage literature. We regard this movement as an educational movement; and as the women in five States of the United States are taking a very active part in the Government, so we hope that aU over the country they will do the same within a very short time. So there is in this article, which is the Woman's Journal, pubHshed in Boston, a paper which was started by Lucy Stone a great many years ago, one of the pioneers of the Woman's Suffrage Association; it was last year taken over as the organ of the National Association. She says in this article, which is a headquarters letter written in New York: Our difficulties are largely the result of the growth of our cause, for where people used 10 years ago to send for sample sets of Political Equality Leaflets and small quan- tities of literature, now we receive very large orders, the parcels often weighing 75 or 100 pounds . Consider for a moment the unsatisfactory alternatives from which we have to choose in filling an order from California for literature weighing, for instance, 50 pounds. The limit for printed matter parcels by mail is 4 pounds, so we can not send it by mail unless it is wrapped separately in at least 12 parcels — an expenditure of labor and time which we can not make, with our necessarily limited workroom space, and our equally limited service in the office. There are many days when we receive several unusually large orders from distant places, many of them telegraphed rush orders. P We have now campaigns in Cahfornia and in Wisconsin, and in Oregon. It has been turned down five times, and we are going to try the sixth. We hope to win the sixth. In South Dakota they also had a campaign, and in Kansas — we have five States, at least, and I think the sixth State will vote on woman's suffrage within the next two years. The legislatures are submitting the questions to the people — So it will be readily seen that, if all these oiders were subdivided into small parcels ao they could be mailed, it would be impossible to fill orders with anything like promptness. Sending large orders by freight is usually out of the question, on account of the time it takes, and people seldom order their literature until they need it for immediate use. So sending by express is the only choice left, and it is indeed Hobson'a choice, for that 50-pound parcel, if sent by the ordinary rate to California, would cost the purchaser $6.75, which might, in many cases, be 30 to 40 per cent of the value of the literature — Which they do, of course, at cost price — There is a special express rate for printed matter, $4 for 50 pounds, which is more favorable, but in orders to secure that rate it is necessary to prepay the express. This means that we have to send a separate bill for transportation, which always seems to the purchaser an irritating extra charge. These are the conditions as they are. Now, consider what they might be if only we had a progressive postal law which would insure us a rational parcels post, based upon .the needs of the people, and Government service for the people, instead of collusion with private express company interests at the expense of the people. First, we could increase the weight limit of parcels to 11 pounds, which is already the common limit of the Universal Postal Union established between the great coun- PARCELS POST. 169 tries of the world, and decrease the rate from 1 cent an ounce to 1 cent for 2 ounces, and have this rate applicable to all parcels, regardless of the nature of the contents. These changes, wnich are part of the bill introduced into the last Congress by the Hon. William Sulzer, of New York, would at least make us somewhere near as pro- gressive in our postal laws as foreign countries have long been, and it would free us &om such absurd and unjust inconsistencies as are shown by the following instances according to the rates in our present classification: The rate on printed books is 8 cents per pound; on blank books, 16 cents per pound; the rate on printed cards is 8 cents; on blank cards, 16 cents; on beans, peas, etc., for eating, 16 cents; on the same for planting, 8 cents; on cut flowers, 16 cents; on flowering plants, 8 cents. It is obvious that the cost of handling and transporting parcels, similar in weight and size is not affected a whit by the contents of parcels, and it is the cost of service alone which should decide the rate charged for that service. Cooperation between the express companies, the railroads, and Congress to the detriment of the National Post Office is not what will bring about fair or progressive postal service for the people, as has been amply demonstrated by the recent exposures of the express companies in the popular magazines. Indeed, the prophets of postal progress look forward to a not distant future when we shall have a common rate of a cent a pound on all classes of mail matter, a rate which publishers now enjoy for second-class mail matter. This would enable the Govern- ment to do its own natural business which the express companies now so largely monopolize and by which they pay dividends as high as 200 per cent, while the not yet roused public meekly and unconsciously aids and abets. A common cent-a-pound postal rate would not only in all probability remove the annual postal deficit for the Government, but it would be another great step toward the perfection of civilization. This is one of the very imperative reforms which women may have a chance to achieve by their vote when they get it. And meanwhile any member who can suggest to us a more satisfactory method of solving the present transportation problem for the litera- ture will be doing a service most thankfully appreciated by the office force at head- quarters. Mary Ware Dennett. Now, I might say that this movement, which we regard as an edu- cational movement, the suffrage movement, would benefit by the reduction of express rates and the distribution of mail matter by the United States Post Office, rural post service, which delivers letters all over the country now; and the mail wagons, as shown in one of the recent magazine articles, going along almost empty, which might be filled with parcels from the Post Office Department — this is all of value, and the distribution of mail matter to the rural communities now would be increased, and literature would be distributed among the women on the farms in the rural districts. This is a trouble from which the women particularly suffer. The men have their grocery shops in the country, and they go and hear all the news of the country, and the women must stay at home and do the sewing and the cooking, and she must sit idly. The rural service has decreased the insanity among the women in the rural districts, and that is one of the great problems in the sparsely populated districts. Since Miss Dennett wrote this article in the Woman's Journal, she has sent a letter in which she says that the situation for us has recently become decidedly worse; that the express companies have made the limit for their printed writing parcels 8 pounds. This now forces us to send all large orders of hterature at the full express rate, which is perfectly outrageous; $6.75 we have to pay to Cahfornia. That really is a matter of vital importance to us ; and if so, quite as impor- tant to everybody else. I was very much interested when I was in London last year. I went to buy a small article for a friend who was in the country who was ill and wanted something which I was able to get for her, and when I bought it at the store I said, "How am I going to send it?" 170 PABOELS POST. In New York or in Wasliington I should have had to go down io the desk of the department store and say, "Please weigh that," and then wait to have it weighed, and then put a postage stamp upon it, and cause a delay of half an hour. I said, "How shall I send that home?" She said, "Whj', I will send it parcels post." And she did. I bought it in the morning and it arrived, 50 miles out of London, that same da}^ That service is not known here. As this is the Post Office Committee, I think it might be interesting to relate one rather extraordinary thing in Belgium. Picture post- cards with a small greeting go throughout Belgium at five for 1 cent, or 5 centimes apiece. That was one-fifth of a cent. You can send a picture postal card in that way, and that was to encourage the collec- tion of views of the country. They also have a very extraordinary ticket — a railroad ticket — which helps people to travel in their own country, to see what there was going on there. The ordinary people would not travel, but they could in Belgium. A five-day ticket for $2.35, all over the country. Your picture was fastened to the card and there was no punching whatever. All you had to do was to show this card to get through. I come across the Congressional Record many times, and I think there is a great deal of misapprehension about the parcels post. I come across petitions of this kind: [Congressional Record, Friday, June 9, 1911, p. 1886.] PETITIONS, ETC. Under clause 1 of rule 22, petitions and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk and referred as follows: By Mr. Booher (of Missouri): Petitions of sundry citizens of Rockport, Skidmore, Barnard, Oregon, Tarkio, Craig Guilford, Westboro, Mound City, Bolckow — Why these people do not want to have parcels dehvered to them cheaply is a mystery to me — Mound City, Bolckow, Dearborn, Amazonia — It sounds hke a radroad train crier — Amazonia, and Maitland, in the fourth congressional district of Missouri, against par- cels post; to the Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads. Now, I think we need a campaign of literature in such cases, and we hope that the Woman's Suffrage Association wiU help to dispel some of these troubled fears which our country people have. In Austria 11 pounds are sent for 12 cents. It is a common thing for people to have their laundry sent by parcels post. In France, the rate is 16 cents for 11 pounds; Germany, 12 cents; Great Britain, 24 cents; British Empire, 72 cents; the United States, $1.76. These are the contrasts, and these are some of the conditions that we hope the committee will remedy. I would like to refer the committee to BHss (W. D. P.) New Ency- clopedia of Social Reform, 1908, page 931. I thanlt you. Mr. CowLEs. I would like to say just one word in that coimection if you please. "* The Chairman. I beg your pardon. It is time for the committee to adjourn. PAECBnjS POST. 171 Mr. CowLES. Then I will give you the rest of it to-morrow, if you please. And I want to thank you very much indeed for listening to my lady friends. STATEMENT OF ME. NATHAN B. WIILIAMS, Mr. Williams. At the outset, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen ■ The Chairman. You are attorney for the Postal Express Federa- tion? Mr. Williams. I was just going to make the statement. At the outset I desire to say that here at this hearing I will represent my- self as a citizen and as counsel, on this occasion, of the Postal Express Federation and the Farmers' National Committee on Postal Reform. An examination of hearings upon postal measures for something more than a year back will show that I was before a committee once before, and doubtless some members of the committee are familiar with my being present in Washington on different occasions since that time. All of such occasions, gentlemen, have been in the inter- est of the reform which I had become convinced was needed and the change of laws which were needed in the postal service. I am a practicing lawyer in a small town. I have received no fees, as counsel fees or otherwise, nor am I expecting any from anyone, upon any of the occasions that I have ever attended a hearing or come to Washington with relation to this business. Some people have been kind enough at times to say that they would contribute a small ainount toward my actual expenses, but in something more than four years in which I have put all my spare time to the study of postal problems and to the presentation of my ideas upon the subject to the Congress and the'Members thereof and to the American people, I have, I think it safe to say, spent more of my own money than I have ever received from anyone else. It is further due the committee and to myself to state that at the time I became interested in the subject I was a sworn officer of the United States Government, a United States commissioner appointed by the late Judge John H . Rogers, of Fort Smith, and I served in such capacity for 12 years, or three terms. It was indeed an accidental matter that brought this situation and these problems to my attention. A situation came up in our law office with reference to the trans- mission of some particular package — I do not remember what it was now — and my partner at that time said "Send it by express." It was, perhaps, a package of valuable papers. I recall that I remarked to him, "If you do you will violate the law." "No;" he replied, "I have done that thing many a time." I said, "Yes ; and so have I; but if it is not the law it ought to be." That very day he said to me, "If you can fmd that law I will give you a good cigar." Lacking a good cigar, I turned to the Federal Statutes, and in Section 3892 of the Revised Statutes of 1878, I found it. I found also, on investigation, that that law apparently had never been construed— that was in 1907. Bemg of an inquiring turn of miad and occasionally thinking about the subject, I took the matter up with the Post Office Department by letter, in my official capacity as United States commissioner, as I was serving at that time. I did not get anywhere for quite a while. I ran against this reference proposition of sending a fellow to the next one. Finally 172 PAECELS POST. we got to a complete circle. Then I wrote a letter and marked it Eersonal and sent it to the Postmaster General Meyer, and he wrote ack to me that he regretted that my correspondence had not re- ceived his personal attention before and that he would endeavor to give me the information I was seekiag. I found a pamphlet that was issued from the office of the Second Assistant Postmaster Gen- eral, Orders and Decisions Relative to Railroad Mail Matter, com- piled by the Second Assistant Postmaster General, under date of February 6, 1897, Government Printiag Office. In the course of the correspondence they sent me this, and over on page 10 I found that they were quoting an opinion from Attorney General MacVeagh, as having been made on June 29, 1881. Attorney General MacVeagh, speaking of the meaning of the words "letter" and "packet," as used in sections 3982 and 3985 of the Revised Statutes, said: What is a letter? I can make it no plainer than is given by the idea that common usage attaches to it. From the connection in which it is used I have no doubt that "packet" means a package of letters. And these definitions have been adhered to by this department ever since. ^ That order bore date of August 20, 1896, and was signed by C. Neill- son, Acting Postmaster General. I then started out to find that opinion. I looked first in the pub- lished Opinions of the Attorney General's Office, and it was not there. I wrote back to the Post Office Department and I said: "I wish you would send me a copy of the opinion or letter of the Postmaster Gen- eral which is referred to." They wrote me quite promptly that for a copy of such an opinion I should apply to the Department of Justice. My typewriter was working good — the machine, I mean. I am not able to support an operator except myself — I addressed a letter then to the Department of Justice, mquiring for the opinion, and was (juietly informed that there was no such opinion. I referred that information to the Post Office Department, and they replied that for the opinion I must inquire of the Department of Justice. I just wrote them as calmly as I could under such circumstances that the Depart- ment of Justice said there was no such opinion, and I secured from the Post Office Department the letter from the Postmaster General which was directed to the Attorney General, and a copy of the letter and the opinion of Mr. ilacVeagh. Those letters are to be found in "Hearings on second-class mail matter before the full committee of the Post Office and Post Roads" in my testimony and remarks thereon in January, 1910. No need to supply them in this record, as I see it. Upon an examination of the questions that are asked by Attorney General MacVeagh it at once becomes apparent that he had been asked to construe that statute with relation to first-class matter; in other words, that he had been asked to define what these words meant in relation to first-class matter. Gentlemen, they do mean a "packet" of letters; but that is not all they mean. And the question was not asked him as to construing these words with ref- erence to mail matter, but to consture them with reference to fijst- class matter. So, in digging at the subject further, I went to the early meaning of those words, and I found that those words "letter or packet" had been in postal law and postal history since the begin- PAKOELS POST. 173 ning; that they had always meant mails or mail matter. So, as a result of _my labors on that subject, there was printed in the Senate in the Sixty-first Congress, second session, Senate Document No. 542, an article by myself entitled "The American Post Office, a Discussion of its History, Development, and Present Day Kelation to Express Companies." I found that express companies had hardly been organized until they began to compete with the Post Office Department in the car- riage of mailable matter. I found that the subject was early con- sidered by Postmaster General Wicklifi'e, who, by the way, has a frandson who is a Member of the Sixty-second Congress of the rnited States— Mr. Wickliffe, of Louisiana. The Post Office Com- mittee brought in a unanimous report on investigating that subject on February 28, 1844, but in that was used the language which was referred to by a previous speaker and referred to in the conference in Washington here of something more than a month ago, in which they said: * * * And the recent discovery, that a power which has been exercised by this Government from its infancy without question and without doubt may be violated with impunity, renders further legislation necessary to protect the public service and presents a question no less momentous than this: Whether the constitution and laws of the country or a lawless combination of refractory individuals shall triumph? That is to be found on page 36 of the Senate Document No. 542. That was, as an examiaation of the authorities will show, to meet the competition of express companies at that time. Shortly after that, in 1859, I believe it was — and these laws, by the way, had been in force during such time — there was introduced into the Congress of the United States a resolution asking the Post Office Committee "to inquire into the advisability of aboHshing the post office, or repealing all laws which prevent express companies, firms, corporations, or individuals," in my remembrance of the quotation, "from carrying mails or mail matter." That was in 1859. The House Post Office Committee brought their report in in which they said "it would be inexpedient to do either of those things," — abolish the post office or repeal these laws which prevented the express com- panies from carrying mail matter. Singularly enough, along about the same time there arose a case in the State court of Georgia, Hill v. Mitchell (25 Ga.), in which the State court said, and quoted this section 3982 of the Kevised Statutes, that the people must understand that this was a proper exercise of the Federal Government, a proper use of the post office, and that they must obey the law and keep out. That case arose over the express company's transportation of- a package of valuable papers, as I recall, from CaHfornia to a woman in Georgia, and the rates were perhaps higher in those days than they are now. She re- fused to pay the charges and went and hired a lawyer and replevined the papers and recovered. Mr. Howard. Right there, Mr. Chairman, if Mr. WiUiams will let me interrupt, was that on the ground that the express company was not a legal custodian of the business ? Mr. Williams. Yes; if I may answer the gentleman. I assume that replevin will not lie, even in Georgia, if one is legally in the custody of the property. Mr. HowAED. I asked that only for the benefit of a layman. 174 PAECELS POST. Mr. Gardner. They were unlawfully in possession, because they did not bear the canceled stamp ? Mr. Williams. Because they bore no stamp at aU. Mr. Gardner. I suppose they had been marked so as to render them valueless. Mr. Williams. No. Mr. Gardner. But the point was they were unlawfully in posses- sion, because they had been transported without paying postage? Mr. Williams. Yes. Mr. Gardner. If they had been stamped, then that would have been different ? Mr. Williams. The result would have been different. There is a provision in the existing laws whereby you can send a package law- luUy by express; that is, a mailable package may be sent lawfully by express, but you must put upon such package the requisite amount of postage stamps and duly cancel them. I have talked with old express- men antedatmg the time of this 1897 order, this opinion of Attorney General MacVeagh, who recalled distinctly that such was the regular and uniform practice of express companies in handling mailable packages. Mr. Gardner. Which was? Mr. Williams. The practice of express companies handling no mailable package unless it bore the requisite value of Arnerican postage stamps duly canceled. Mr. Gardner. Yes. Mr. Williams. I have talked with a number of old expressmen who remember that situation. So, the situation is that the Post Office Department put an un- warranted construction upon Attorney General MacVeagh's opinion, attempted to cover matter about which he was not writing, and about a subject which he had evidently given only the most cursory exam- ination. There was an Attorney General of the United States, who, back in 1844, as I recall, said that "packet" included a bundle of newspapers, and that was stated right there in the printed reports of the Attorney General and in his office. Now, as an illustration of what is a proper construction and how to construe these things, I want to call the committee's attention to a paragraph on page 17 of Senate Document No. 34, Sixty-second Congress, first session, being the opinion of the Supreme Court of the United States in the celebrated Standard Oil case. This paragraph reads as follows: Let us consider the language of the first and second sections, guided by the principle that where words are employed in a statute which had at the time a well-known meaning at common law or in the law of this ocuntry they are presumed to have been used in that sense unless the context compels to the contrary.' Now, then, the question arises in the mind of the Member of Con- gress, Why don't the Department of Justice move ? I will tell you why. This section of the statute was 3982, enacted in 1845, and reenacted in 1872, shghtly amended in 1879 — this very same statute — so as to provide for "dehvery of matter to the railway post office postal car;" in other words, following a strict construction of the > Swearingen ». United States (161 U. S., 446); United States c. Wong Kim Arlc (169 U. S.. 649V Keck V. United States (172 U. S., 446); Kepner v. United States (196 U. S., 126). PAHCELS POST. 175 statute, there is a post route from the post office down to the post car, and you could not take your mail down there and put it on that car. So that the Congress had amended it in that particular phase. But here is where the trouble stands at present. You made a new criminal code not long ago which went into e Tect on January 1, 1910, and you reenacted section 3982 and the other sections relating to the same subject into section 181, and following, of that code, and you changed it from a penal statute, where there was a civil liability, to a criminal one with a fine and imprisonment as against an express company for carrying a letter or packet over a post road for hire at regular trips, ietc. — the phraseology of that statute. Now, then, the Department of Justice — and they now say so; at least I have been led to that conclusion from statements that have been made to me — take the position that the Congress of the United States well knew the interpretation which it had placed upon this phrase "letter or packet" by the people of the United States, by the express companies, by the post office, and by everybody — that had been going along here for years, and that by reenacting that statute in the form in which you did, not changing the phraseology at all, you had at this time, in the year 1910, adopted the 1910 inter- pretation of that statute, and not the correct interpretation of the time of its original enactment, and that under this rule, as an- nounced in the Standard Oil case, the courts would not. support a prosecution under that. As stated a moment ago, I think these conclusions of the De- partment of Justice are evidenced by a bill which was introduced mto the Senate of the United States on the 12th day of June, 1911, being S. 2706, by Mr. Kenyon, junior Senator from Iowa. That bill provides — it is very short and I think we had better read it right into the record, if the chairman has no objection — That section 184, chapter 8, of the criminal code of the United States be amended by striking out, in the seventh line of said section, the words "or packets," and substituting therefor the words "packets or mailable matter." Very likely it would be proper, and very proper, for the investi- fator of this subject, who will very likely read these hearings, that e read alongside of section 184 this language from the criminal code: Whoever, being the owner, driver, conductor, master, or other person having charge of any steam coach, railway car, steamboat, or conveyance of any kind which regularly performs trips at stated periods on any post route or from any city, town, 01 place to anothei city, town, or place, between which mail is regulaily carried, and which shall carry otherwise than in the mail any letters or packets except such as relate to some part of the cargo of such steamboat or other vessel, to the current business of the carrier, or to some aiticle carried at the same time by the same steam coach, railway car, or other vehicle, except as otherwise provided for by law, shall be fined not less than 150. I take it that Senator Kenyon does not commit himself as being either favorable or unfavorable, or have anything to say, with refer- ence to the subject of parcels post by this bill. I do not know any- thing about his views on the subject of parcels post. I should say that he means thereby to make it plain and certain that the Govern- ment shall carry all mail matter which it attempts to carry — all matter which is by law made mailable. His bill would include, you would say, mailable packages of 4 pounds and under, and it would include all second-class matter, regardless of weight. 176 PAECBLS POST. Some member of the committee at some stage of these proceedings has suggested or raised the question to some one here with reference to the poiat that if you allow the Government to have the monopoly of carrying mail matter, it would thereby deprive you of carrying a letter as suggested, I believe, this morning, I think it was, that it would be unlawful to carry a letter to somebody down here in the city or to some adjacent city. That is not correct. The men who worked out, these postal laws — and they are subject to develop- ment and growth, because some of the principles that are now incor- porated in this criminal code and in the admmistrative code relating to the postal service are nearly 300 years old — some of the very provisions now existing in the post-office law were to be found in the first act estabUshing the post office in February, in 1690, 1 believe it was— 1691 or 1692. Here is the way this exception comes about: Nothing in this chapter — Section 186— Nothing in this chapter — And this has always been the law — • shall be construed to prohibit the conveyance or transmission of letters or packets by private hands without compensation or by special messenger employed for the particular occasion only. I am at a little village. The mail has departed. It may be so absolutely important that I shall communicate with my correspond- ents that I would dig down and pay a S20 bill in order to get my letter or important package to that particular individual; the law says, " Certainly; you are employing this man for that particular occasion." "Sure." And then there are some other features in reference to it. Suppose I have a package that is so valuable — that is stretching the imagina- tion — suppose I had a diamond worth a thousand dollars, or somebody •wants to send me a diamond which is worth a thousand dollars. A 2-cent postage stamp or even a 1-cent postage stamp, under the existing rates, is all the postage that is required. But I am afraid of the security of the mail. I then take it to the express company's office with the requisite amount of postage on it, and what I pay the express company is for the insurance or the additional security that I believe the express company affords me. That is a matter for me. Those circumstances are provided for by the law and excepted from its complete functions. Section 181— Whoever shall establish any private express for the conveyance of letters or packets or in any manner provides for the conveyance of the same — Now, how? — By regular trips or at stated periods. Now, that is your limitation-^— by regular trips or at stated periods. Another Hmitation — Over any post route which is or may be established by law, or from any city, town, or place to any other city, town, or place, between which the mail is regularly carried, and so forth, except that nothing contained in this section shall be construed as pro- hibiting any person from receiving and delivering PABCELS POST. , 177 Mr. Gardner (interposing). If you wilt pardon me Mr. Williams. Just one moment. Here is a large merchant who is using his own wagons to deliver his own packages. He is doing his own work and he would not like to have to pay postage on such packages; but even if he was employing them and those wagons were not operating by regular trips or at stated periods over post routes — all railroad lines are post routes, all water lines are post routes, all carrier routes in cities are post routes, and all pubhc high- ways over which the mail passes are post routes. Mr. Gardner. The question that you are discussing arose here this morning over what limitation would have to be put in an act declaring a monopoly of the parcels post. Take the case of eggs and butter, which were most frequently used. At certain seasons of the year a gentleman — I have no objection to naming him— ^Mr. Patter- son — puts on a wagon his eggs and goes to Philadelphia Tuesdays and Fridays during the season. He has to travel every foot of that distance over a post route. Cases like that, for instance, would have to be excepted in the new statute ? Mr. Williams. Yes; that is, mailable packages. Mr. Gardner. Weh, if the bill is enacted they will be mailable. Mr. Willlams. I hardly think so. Mr. Gardner. You mean they must first be made up in the proper form to be a mailable package ? Mr. Williams. I think undoubtedly so. Mr. Gardner. If hereafter the Government declared a monopoly, can that be evaded by changing the form of the package from the regulation ? Mr. Williams. There are certain things that are made nonmail- able. I do not know that either butter or eggs are, under existing statutes, mailable. Mr. Gardner. But the thing discussed is a proposed act which would make them mailable. Now, just let us get the point, if you are not in a hurry. Mr. Williams. Sure. Mr. Gardner. Eggs would not be mailable, nor would a pound of butter be mailable. There would have to be a regulation as to how they should be packed; packed in that form, they become mailable matter. Mr. Williams. Yes. Mr. Gardner. Now, if the monopoly is declared, can we keep away from it by omitting to put them in that form ? Mr. Williams. Certainly. The post oflftce would not accept a pound of butter to-day. A pound of butter, generically speaking, is mailable matter. Mr. Gardner. Unless it was specifically excepted in the act could not they go far enough to require that things mailable in a reasonable form under a reasonable regulation should be shipped in that form under that regulation and by mail ? Mr. Williams. I think not. Mr. Gardner. You think not. Now, not for the purpose of con- troversy, but to get at the necessary form of the act: If not, does not the whole theory of the monopoly go to pieces ? If it only becomes mailable when put in a particular form and the sender could not put it in that form, but sent it in some other way ? 3110—11 12 178 - PAECELS POST. Mr. Williams. It does not; not in my opinion. Mr. Gardner. For instance, suppose the department shauld require that eggs bepacked in a box of a given strength, with excelsior, and so forth. When so packed, the monopoly takes effect, but if packed l>y some other method your position, as I understand it, is that the monopoly does not attach ? Mr. Williams. Certainly. Mr. Gardner. So that it does not become a monopoly until once the packer sees fit to put it in that particular form and make it mail- able matter ? Mr. Williams. No; you misget me, if you will pardon the ex- pression. There is the' point. Matter which falls within the defini- tion of mail matter. If it is ready to be transported, when carried upon a post route, or at regular trips on which the mail is regularly- carried, it becomes mailable. To illustrate: Certain liquids are now permissible in the mails. That is, the Postmaster General makes a regulation that if you will put your bottle of Hquid in a certaia Mn^ of a contaiaer, which will absorb all of the moisture, then they will accept that for maUiiig. But if you take that bottle of liquid to the roost office with simply a label on the bottle, they will not accept it. The point I make, and I hope I get it clear, is that a pound of butter, the ordinary market pound of butter, is a block wrapped with one sheet of oiled paper, not sealed, even. That pound of butter to-day, a pound of ordinary merchandise in that form, would not be accej)ted by the postmaster as falling within the inhibitions of the criminal code. Mr. Gardner. Now, Judge, I think I get your point. Take your bottle. The marking of that is permissive; there is no monopoly Tinder the present law ? Mr. Williams. None whatever. Mr. Gardner. Suppose that is a matter over which the Govern- ment assumes a monopoly ; the assumption of a monopoly, even by statute, is nugatory if the article or thing does not become mailable matter until the owner voluntarily puts it into a particular form. Mr. Williams. Certainly. I assume that you gentlemen, nor the full committee, nor the House of Eepresentatives, nor the Post Office Department, nor the American people are seriously worrying about the proposition of carrying eggs or butter as ordinarily meant in a market way. In other words, that if I have a dozen eggs, that won't weigh 4 pounds, as the poultry gentleman mentioned awhile ago, and I see proper to pack those; I nave a customer who lives 20 miles away and who is on a star route or a nn-al route. He sends me an order for a setting of light Brahma eggs, and I so pack those that the post office will accept them — that is, I have so packed them that if ttey break, the surrounding material I have put about them wiQ absorb all of the whole setting of eggs — 15. I pack them in such a way that the package will be accepted as weighing less than 4 pounds, then it is carried at the present rates. It is mailable matter. So far as the carrying of eggs is concerned, the entire matter that is excluded by the statute Mr. Gardner. Let us go further, because this is going to beconie & serious matter to the committee in drafting the bill. You have heard the arguments of the farmers and of many others. There are perhaps very, very many persons, and members of this committee, PARCELS POST. l^iQ on the floor of the House now, who believe that the Government would extend the naonopoly. Now, take your merchandise package, generally. Millinery, if you please, and a' hundred other things sent by express. The Government can not with any effect whatever declare a. monopoly unless there is a power in the Postmaster General to regidate the packing of every article to make them acceptable, fbecause a monopoly that is entu-ely optional with the sender is no monopoly at all. Our friends should understand that whUe here. , Mr. Williams. Certainly they should, and I take it that section 217, defining what is nonmailable, answers the question, except for one thing. You mentioned millinery. It is true that some of .the ladies' hats probably, with the box they are packed in at the present time, would weigh 4 pounds. But that is a horrible hat, .even now. Now, then, if that hat goes over here to Baltimore by express and it does not weigh 4 pounds, that shipment is in violation of existing law— but you must mash the ladies' hats, law or no law. So in drafting the bill perhaps it will require a further hmitation iUpon this point of nonmailable matter, restricting the size of the package; that is, the contents of the package. A whip, for instance, or a fishing pole — a cane pole, for instance, would not weigh 4 pounds, and I might want to send it from Baltimore to Washington. At present to send it is in violation of the law — or a buggy whip. That would be extremely onerous to the Post Office Department to mail that buggy whip, but under the law I might mail it to-day at 16 cents a pound. Perhaps I am putting that a little extreme, because it might be said it would be of such a form as to harm the contents of a mail bag. The Chairman. Was there not a limitation ? The only point I sought to bring out was that a proposition to take the monopoly falls unless there be power to compel the shipment by mail. It is not a compulsion; it becomes merely a permission. Mr. Williams. So far as the will of the American people is ex- pressed in statutory legislation. It is not a complete monopoly as ■it exists now. I am sending a letter or a package by a friend or a special messenger employed for that particular occasion. He may accept it and transport it, providing he is not doing that &s a regular ■business. Mr. Gardner. That is still different. The stage could go on tak- ing things mailable if not packed in a form to make them mailable, under the law. Mr. Williams. Why, certainly, and the Post Office Departrnent does not want, if somebody is figuring on sending a silk dress weigh- ing 3 or 4 pounds, by a stage, to turn it over to an express company, that is not even wrapped, simply with somebody else s name pinned on it.- Certainly that is not mailable. Mr. Gardner. Now, the point I am trying to bring out is, if the Post Office Department is to take up the shipping of silks, as a mail monopoly, they must have the power to prescribe the packing of that silk, and to prevent its being shipped otherwise. Mr. Williams. Before the department will accept it. Mr. Gardner, But to prevent it shipping otherwise. Mr. Williams. What is the necessity of that ? Mr. Gardner. Well, then, the monopoly falls. Mr. Williams. No. 180 PABCBLS POST. Mr. Gardner. Why ? Mr. Williams. Because if you don't want that business you will prescribe regulations for its packing so as to make it fall, as you wUl under this section here, where it is nomnailable, unless it falls within certain specified grounds. Mr. Gardner. I am sorry to take time, but let us suppose now that this Congress shall pass a bill taking over a monopoly of the transportation of silks within the United States as mail matter. Now, we have talked about monopohes. Suppose we pass the act. It is a monopoly. They had the power to do that under the inter- state commerce clause of the Constitution, I take it. They pass an act making the transportation of silks a Government monopoly. The entire thing is nugatory unless there is a power to compel the putting up of those silks in such a form that they can be accepted. There is no monopoly. It becomes permissive on the part of the citizen to send his goods that way. Mr. Williams. I do not foUow you quite to such an extent, for the reason that the point I make is this, that if it is mailable, then the law attaches to it; that if it falls without the definition of mail matter or within the prohibited articles which are excluded, then the monopoly does not stand. And further, a word in reference to that proposition of monopoly. I do not hke the word. It is not a proper word in describing mail legislation, or postal legislation. It is not a proper word any more than it would be proper to say the Govern- ment to-day has a monopoly in the coinage of American money; not a bit more applicable. It is a function of the Federal Government, one of the granted and enumerated powers of the Congress of the United States, just like the power to coin money, to levy taxes, to declare war, and to regulate commerce. It is one of the granted and enumerated powers of the Constitution of the United States. Now that brings up a very interesting consideration. Here are two clauses of the Constitution which may be made to affect the matter of commerce. Now, as a matter of fact, the post office, in the early history, did carry very large quantities of ordinary merchandise. There was no limitation upon the weight of packages that might go by {)ost up until 1810, when the hmit was fixed at 3 pounds. It was ater changed to 4 pounds. In fact, it was stated in 1799 by the Postmaster General at that time that in some instances— no ; he said this: Heretofore there has been no limit to the weight of packets — Remember "packets" — which might be sent by post, in consequence of which, in some instances, large and inconvenient packages have been sent in the mails which those to whom they have been directed have refused to accept on account of the expense. I therefore recom- mend — said he — that Congress leave it discretionary with the Postmaster General to receive or reject such as weigh more than 3 pounds. So Congress, in 1810, did fix a limit. That was in the day when the recipient paid the postage, and if you sent a fellow a great big bundle, he might not care to pay the price, because it was a pretty good-sized price m those days. PAKCELS POST. 181 As I say, it is one of the functions, one of the granted, enumerated powers of the Government, of the Congress of the United States. And right here, gentlemen, hes one of the reasons why it is not much argument to talk about the postal systems of any other country and what they do, because we have a different situation. Here are two clauses of the Constitution which may properly be said to relate to the subject of commerce or may be used in relation to commerce. That cigar [indicating] is, generically speaking, an article of com- merce. Now, thepost-roads clause of the Constitution has no limi- tations upon it. The interstate-commerce clause of the Constitution has limitations upon it — that it must be commerce between the States. So this cigar may properly, in the consideration of Congress, be con- sidered and properly treated with relation to the post-roads clause of the Constitution or the commerce clause of the Constitution. So, in order to have anything like an harmonious system, it is necessary that Congress define boundaries or mark the dividiag line between the operations of these two clauses of the Constitution, and that is what the framers of these particular statutes, 181 and the other that I have mentioned, intended to be done. In 1887 the Congress enacted the interstate commerce law, or created the Interstate Commerce Commission. Now, we are con- fronted with this situation: Congress makes the rate on mail matter; and I am not for you gentlemen arrogating to the Postmaster Gen- eral or even to the commission the proposition of making rates on mail matter. So, in order to have a harmonious system it is neces- sary for the Congress of the United States to outline the jurisdiction of each one of these clauses of the Constitution. Congress makes the rates on mail matter, and the Interstate Commerce Commission supervises the rates of the express companies, but does not initiate them. So the Interstate Commerce Commission can not tell the express companies how they shall make a rate.* The Congress of the United States makes rates upon the general theory of mail matter as existing to-day on a flat basis. We will discuss zones and things of that kind a httle bit later. The express company makes rates generally on a zone basis. So the Interstate Commerce Com- mission can only review those tariffs. Then, if Congress makes a rate on the transportation of that cigar, or on a box of cigars, and makes it on a flat basis, and the express company makes it on a dif- ferent basis, what happens if I may take my choice in the transpor- tation of that box of cigars? The result is that the Government gets the long haul, the haul to the country or the haul to California, or the haul to far away, and the express company take the nearby, the very profitable portion of the business. And that is just what has been happening for years and years. We have all been sitting around looking at it and talking about postal deficits. But even officials of the department talk about various and sundry ways of treating that post-office deficit besides going and getting a legitimate part of the business that belongs to the Post Office Department. I am not for new laws as a rule. Here is a situation that, properly interpreted and properly gone after, did not need a statute. Now, • following the proposition of the necessity of Congress for fixing the marking line between the Interstate Commerce Commission and the Post Office Department, suppose you try the zone rate. The Inter- 182 PABOEIS POST. state Commerce Commission can not force the express companies to file a tariff in any particular way, and you start out on a zone system of making rates. You fix 500 miles as the zone, for example. You make your rates, we will assume, 20 per cent lower than the express rate for that 500 miles. The department starts getting business. Everybody starts sending by mail. The express company says, '.'Here, that business is getting away from us. I believe we can stand a better rate than that." So they draw their zone so as to reduce the rate and get just a httle edge under the Government. They get all the short-haul profitable portion of the business. Two or three years rolls around and Congress says, "We will take another whack at them and reduce that rate." They draw in the zone, and at some point there is a vanishing point where the business can not be handled' by the Government at anything like remuneration, and the express company goes out, and you have mounting post office deficits. So I say it is absolutely necessary that the Government enforce; or, in other words, carry all that it attempts to carry; every single, solitary thing that it attempts to carry it must carry. Either get out or get in. If the Interstate Commerce Commission can make rates upon the' transportation of mailable matter, boxes of cigars and things of that kind, over post routes between States, then the State railroad com- missions have the same power to make rates from points and places within such States. May a State set up a postal system ? To ask the question is to answer it. It can not. May an express company set up a. postal system? Which is bigger — the express companies or the Gt)vernment of the United States ? I tell you, it rounds around to the remark of the Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads, in 1844, that the "question is a no less momentous one than this. Shall the Constitution and laws of the country, or a lawless combination of refractory individuals, triumph?" What have we ? ' We have the Congress of the United States, the Interstate Commerce Commission, and forty-odd States making rates for the transportation of a box of cigars. A nice jumble, which can delight no one except the express companies. Mr. Gardner. Pardon me. Mr. Williams. Certainly. Mr. Gardner. To go back to what you were discussing a while ago. You now say that the Government must get in control. Mr. Williams. Either in or out. Mr. Gardner. Yes. They must do the work or not do it. Now, if you do not like that word "monopoly" does not that mean to take over the exclusive right to transport those things ? Mr. Williams. Only to such an extent as you want them. If you want to take the exclusive right, you have the power to do it. Mr. Gardner. Certainly. Mr. Williams. But you only want — when I say "you" I mean all of us Mr. Gardner. I understand. Mr. Williams. You only want to take that particular portion of the business that is easily handled, that meets your particular equip- ment and your particular facilities for handling it, and if you can do ■ that at a compensation, it will be reasonably satisfactory to the people of the whole country. You do not want to carry the coal of the country. PABOELS POST. 183 Mr. Gakdner. Your suggestion would be, then, that we take an exclusive right for the carrying of some of the packages and not others ? Mr. Williams. But I would take all of those that are mailable. Mr. Gardnee. No; pardon me. That is not the thing. We are after the Mr. Williams. All right. I can tell you the things I would exclude, Mr. Gardner. There is no exclusive right to transport anything, if it is a voluntary matter with the sender whether he rolls it in a par- ticular form, in which the Government can accept it. And ir^we take cigars, I think that the way they are prepared for commerce is in a mailable form. Mr. Williams. Very probably because it follows that Mr. Gardner. But 10 yards of silk are not. Mr. Williams. Loose, they would not be ; no, sir. Mr. Gardner. Then the exclusive right to transport it would only attach after it is put in a similar form, to wit, a form under the regulations. Mr. Williams. But Mr. Gardner. Now wait. Mr. Williams. All right. Mr. Gardner. But it does not seem to me that you propose it; maybe I am wrong. You want the Government in or out. Say it goes in. Now, there is a package of silk. If it is .rolled in a par- ticular way, as I understand your proposition, it becomes mailable, and an exclusive right to transport it attaches to the Government; but if it is put up in some other way it does not. It might well go by express on the short haul and the Government be beaten by the express company then as now. That does not suggest a remedy for the existing conditions. Mr. Williams. Well, I think we can make it clear now in this way, that the trouble you and I are having is that I see you are assuming that the Congress should define what is mailable. Well, previous Congresses, back since whereof the memory of man runneth not to the contrary, have always assumed that they should only attempt to define what was not mailable; in other words, to name the things that must keep out of the mails and not the things that must go into the mails — all that is not excluded goes in. And that is the point. For instance, all kinds of poison and all articles and compositions containing poisons, all poisonous animals, insects, and reptiles, explo- sives of all kinds, inflammable materials, and so forth. Mr. Gardner. But our proposition is this. Judge: A new statute is proposed, in several forms, several propositions. The express companies enter into the arguments, lou have just shown that the express companies get the profitable haul and the Government gets the other, because the express companies have a short distance. Any short distance rate may be less than a necessary fiat rate cov- ering a wide area. Now, that is the proposition. In order to do that, the new bill must make certain things mailable. The propo- sition has been made here from a dozen speakers, and it seems to me to be self-evident that the only way for the Government to protect itself against the express conditions that exist now where it loses the short haul and gets the long one, will be to take the exclusive 184 PARCELS POST. right of the transportation of those things which it embodies in this bill. Mr. Williams. All right. Mr. Gardner. Now, then, the exclusive transportation of them absolutely falls if they only become mailable after the owner or the party who proposes to send them puts them in a form coming within the regulations required by the Government. Mr. Williams. All right; just look at the subject a moment Mr. Gaednek. If he puts them in any other form Mr. Williams. Just look at the bill a moment. That hereafter the postage rate on — what ? Not butter, eggs, popcorn, but "mail matter of the fourth class shall be as hereinafter provided." Then in the other narrow-zone proposition — that is, on mail matter of the fourth class. That, to my notion, can not be better met than simply to say mail matter, because you do not want to haul a box of cigars, you do not want a box of dynamite. You can not say all packages of 11 pounds and less, because you do not want to take it, because a box of dynamite weighing 11 pounds — I don't care about being on a railroad train with it. Mr. Gardner. The proposition still remains that in order to take the Government away from the disadvantage that it now suffers, of somebody else taking the short hauls and giving it the long, there would be an exclusive right to carry mailable matter, if you please, but it must go further than that. You contend that the thing becomes mailable matter only when done up in a form coining within existing regulations. Mr. Williams. Existing law. Mr. Gardner. Well, it has not any exclusive right at all. That is all. I do not wish to pursue the matter any further. Mr. Williams. Well, if you wiU put the law before you — mailable matter before you — and will give me an opportunity to prosecute an express company and I do not put an expressman in jail, from the Supreme Court of the United States, I will never be heard on another proposition as long as I live. Mr. Gardner. Well, I do not say that that comports with your egg proposition, but we will let it go at that. (Whereupon, at 4.55 p. m., the committee adjourned until Friday, June 15, 1911, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) Subcommittee No. 4 of the Committee ON Post Offices and Post Roads, House of Representatives, Washington, D. C, Friday, June 16, 1911. The subcommittee on parcels post met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. James T. Lloyd in the chair. The subcommittee then resumed the consideration of the various bills pending before it providing for a parcels post. STATEMENT OF ME. NATHAH B. WILLIAMS— Continued. Mr. Williams. Mr. Chairman, at the interruption of my remarks I was discussing the matter of the conflict in the business of package carrying, or carrying small packages of merchandise, and the admin- PAECELS POST. 185 istration of the laws covering such transportation as referred to inter- state carriage or intrastate carriage, and the exercise of the rate- making power of Congress in fixing by act of Congress rates for the carriage of mail matter by the Post Office Department, and the prac- tice of express companies in establishing rates for the carriage of the same kind of matter as in interstate commerce under the jurisdiction of the Interstate Commerce Commission, and making rates for the intrastate carriage of such matter — that is, between points and places within a State-;-oyer which the various State commissions had super- vision or jurisdiction. I called attention to this situation and to the mis up or evil results that followed, in that it resulted in the Post Office Department only getting the long-haul portion of such business, or, in other words, only that portion of the business that the express companies did not want. At this point, inasmuch as I earUer referred to the matter of the meaning of the term "mail" Mr. Weeks. Mr. Williams, let me add there that the express com- panies do not want it, because they can not make it profitable at the rates charged by the Government for the service. Mr. Williams. At the rates charged by the Government for the service; yes, sir. There is quite a comprehensive definition of the term "mail" in Seawright v. Stokes et al. (3 Howard (U. vS.), 151). I also wish to read into the record a sentence from the Notice of Judgment, No. 497, under the food and drugs act, issued by the Department of Agri- culture upon August 30, 1910, reprinting in full the opinion of Hon. Smith MacPherson, judge of the United States court, in the case of Shawnee Milling Co. v. Marcellus L. Temple, United States district attorney, and Frank B. Clark, United States marshal, respond- ents, in the Circuit Court of the United States for the Southern District of Iowa, central division: And it would be a needless waste of energy to discuss the many decisions relating to the use of the mails, for the obvious reason that a distinct clause of the Constitu- tion empowers Congress to control our postal system; and there is not the slightest difference whether the mails thus carried are State or interstate. Likewise I wish to refer in the record to an article which I prepared a few months ago for The American Law Review, March-April num- ber, 1911, volume 45, No. 2, published by the Review Publishing Co., 14 South Broadway, St. Louis. Mo. The article is entitled "Rate Regulating Bodies and the Postal Service." I do not think I care to read any portion of the article, except one paragraph, which becomes important in this particular consideration of the subject, and in direct relation to the remarks just preceding: The express companies charge $2.15 for carrying an 11-pound package from Wash- ington, D. C, to San Francisco, while the American Express Co. will carry the same package from New York to San Francisco for the British postal system for 60 cents. For this contract, which has been m existence since 1902, see H. R. 2189, Sixty-first Congress, third session, issued February, 1911. To clear up this situation, and put an end to these flagrant floutings of the rights of our people, it is only necessary that a plain, common sense interpretation be made of sections 181, 200, and 203 of the new penal code of the United States, and that these laws be enforced. Section 181 relates to carriage of mail matter by private express, and uses the term "letter or packet." This section applies to the operations of express companies over post roads within the confines of the boundaries of the United States. Section 200 of the code relates to the carriage of matter by ships plying between American ports, such as New Orleans and New York, and this section of the code uses the term "letters 186 PAECELS POST. or packages." Section 203 of the code relates to ships pl3ang between foreign and; domestic ports, and this section uses the term "letters or mailable matter." Will anyone for a moment contend that Congress meant to impose restrictions on foreign vessels carrying mailable matter to this country or to impose restrictions upon domestic vessels plying between domestic ports, which it did not intend to impose upon the express companies operating over the post roads of the United States? There may be such persons, but I have not yet. the hardihood to be one of them, Mr. Weeks. Did you state who you are quoting? Mr. Williams. I am quoting an artidej ■written by myself . Mr. Weeks. Oil, your own article? Mr. Williams. Yes; my own article. Mr. Weeks. !• suppose, Mr. Williams, you do not wish to insert; in; the record the other considerations which bear on the rate charged by the American Express Co. for carrying express from New Yoifcto San Francisco ? Mr. Williams. I do not know just what you mean. Mr. Weeks. It is a pretty comprehensive contract! It takes into, consideration various other matters, and that may not be the only consideration which they had in mind in agreeing to make that- rate. It is a flat rate outside of the immediate section of New York. Mr. Williams. Outside of the immediate section of- New York ? Mr. Weeks. And the same rate apphes to Philadelphia or Wash- ington or Baltimore as to San Francisco. Mr. Williams. The service of the express company in the contract referred to includes: (o) They shall arrange for the due examination of the parcels at the customhouse and for the due observance at the customhouse of the regulations of the customs of ' the United States. (6) Where a parcel is addressed in bond to an inland port of entry of the United States, they shall convey or arrange for the conveyance of such, parcel to such port of entry, (c) Upon the release of the parcels, respectively, from the customhouse the company shall' convey the same, respectively, to and deliver the same at the respective places of address of such parcels, or cause the said parcels to be conveyed and delivered to such places of address — with some minor provisions. • Mr. Chairman, I have no wish to be unfair to the Congress of the United States, to the Post Office Department, to the American Ex- press Co., or to the British Government. As has already been stated and as is quoted in that contract, the rate on those parcels up to 3 pounds is a flat rate of 36 cents from New York to any point in the United States; from 3 to 7 pounds the rate is 2 shillings, or approximately 48 cents ; and from 7 pounds to 1 1 pounds the rate is 2 shillings and 6 pence, or approximately 60 cents. On an examination of the calculations and tables offered by Mr. David J. Lewis in his remarks to the committee, it appears that the average express rate as he calculates it in those tables approximates very nearly that contract — that is, working the proposition out as he has done there. In any event, that contract was made between the British Government and the American Express Co., as its date shows, on August 2, 1902, and it is yet in existence. I apprehend, that the American Express Co. would not care to continue it unless it were a profitable contract, and that the British Government would: not consent to pay even that rate unless they regarded it as approxi- mately the best they could possibly get or as a fair charge for the service performed. There is a further matter in relation to that contract that is in a measure singular. In 1906 the Congress of the United States put PAECELS POST. 187[ express companies under the jurisdiction of the Interstate Commerce Gommission. That law and regulations of the commission made in pursuance of law required transportation companies such as express companies to file with the commission all transportation agreements which they had. Inquiry at the Interstate Commerce Commission in October, 1910, developed the facfcthat that contract was not on fUe with the commission. At my earnest solicitation, the commission immediately proceeded: to ascertain the whereabouts of that con- tract and to secure a copy thereof for their fUes in compliance with law. I assume it to be a fact that up to the time of the receipt of my letter the commission had no knowledge that such a contract was in existence. In any event, they moved very promptly, indeed, after the receipt of the information that I supphed. I secured the information; from the British Postal Guide, which indicated, or made the statement, that there was a contract in existence. The commission secured the contract and, completed its investiga- tion of the subject in January, 1911. I then brought the matter to the attention of a Congressman from Arkansas. He introduced a resolution upon which the Interstate and Foreign Commerce Com- mittee, under Mr. Mann, made a prompt report and printed the contract. I do not know, and I do not so contend, that any Member of Con- gress ever knew that the contract was in existence until the time the matter was brought to their attention. I' did; however, allude to the contract — the fact that there was some contract of some kind in existence — in my remarks before the Post Office Committee in January, 1910, the committee at that time having under consideration the subject of second-class mail matter. Ttere is one other observation to be made with reference to that contract. It seems that about the year 1904 a man by the name of Mr. M. V. Hartranft, who was at the time the pubHsher of the Fruit World in Los Angeles, Cal., addressed a letter to Hon. V. H. Metcalf, then a Member of the House from CaHfornia, making reference to this contract. Mr. Metcalf referred the correspondence to the then Second Assistant Postmaster General, Mr. Shallenberger. On Janu- ary 6, 1904, Mr. Shallenberger wrote Hon. H. C. Payne, Postmaster General, acknowledging the receipt of the letter of Mr. Metcalf and the letter of Mr. Hartranft, and quoting therefrom. I quote from the letter of Mr. Shallenberger to Mr. Payne of the date mentioned : Replying to the inquiry for information on the subject, especially as to the contract claimed to have been made by the British post office with an American express com- pany, I will say that it is not possible for me to obtain the exact terms of the contract entered into between the British post office and the express company referred to, but after careful investigation through an official in this office I am able to give some information which indicates that Mr. Hartranft is laboring under a misapprehension as to the facts. Then he quotes from the British Postal Guide, etc. He likewise makes several observations with reference to what the express com- pany is making under this contract. These observations with refer- ence to that letter are simply tossed into the record for what they may be worth. Mr. Weeks. Do you wish all that matter printed, Mr. Williams ? Mr. Williams. Oh, no. 188 PABCELS POST. Mr. Weeks. Just what you have quoted ? Mr. Williams. Simply what I have quoted. I tell where it is, the dates, and things of that kind. That is the idea. Mr. Weeks. What does he say about the profits that are being made by the express company under that contract ? Mr. Williams. Mr. Shallenberger ? Mr. Weeks. Yes. Mr. Williams. I will quote this paragraph : It will thus be seen that the statement of Mr. Hartranft is misleading when he says that this rate, namely, 25 cents, applies — The British Postal Guide simply says that there is a charge of 25 cents additional for the package when it goes beyond the port of New York. Of course that has no relation to the matter of the express company; but that is the indication in the British Postal Guide. The rate from Great Britain to New York is one thing; for a package delivered any- where else in the United States it is a shilling additional. So if the British Government desires to receive less than it pays the express company, that is simply a matter of administration. I continue reading: applies on packages mailed through the British post office to New York, and a rate of only 25 cents is added for continuing the package from New York to San Francisco, leaving the impression, as he clearly does, that a package of 11 pounds, of which he is speaking, to New York, is at the rate of 25 cents, whereas the figures quoted show that it IS at the rate of 72 cents, or 3 shillings. Again, the American Express Co., instead of receiving 25 cents for carrying a parcel of 11 pounds from New York to California, receives a certain sum which is equivalent to a uniform charge of 72 cents for each and every parcel, regardless of its weight or distance carried, from New York to any point within the United States, the services performed by the express com- pany in handling these parcels, large or small, being to receive them from the British post office at the port of New York, pass them through the customhouse, and forward to destination. It is quite likely that if any prominent merchant, manufacturer, or fruit grower in this country desired to make the same arrangement with either one of the express companies, it could be done. A large proportion of the parcels would be small, and would be carried short distances, so that a fixed rate of 72 cents for receiving and forwarding all parcels or 11 pounds and under, regardless of weight or distance, is no doubt fully remunerative to the express company. I think that covers the point. Mr. Gardner. At the proper place, Judge WiUiams — you know where that is better than I do — I want to ask you if you happen to know by virtue of what convention, treaty, or concession the British Government acquires the right to extend by contract its parcels post throughout the United States? Mr. Williams. The United States has a convention, entered into by the Postmaster General of the United States and the Postmaster General of Great Britain, whereby the Government of the United States, through its Post Office Department, undertakes to receive and dehver in the United States all parcels of the parcels-post serv- ice, and Great Britain on its part undertakes to do the same thing in Great Britain. I have not here that treaty, and I can not give you its date; but under my construction of it, this contract with the American Express Co. is absolutely in refutation and ui violation of that convention or treaty. But this contract does not hurt the United States Post Office Department ; because, as I under- stand that convention, each country contracts to deliver the mail of the other, and each country keeps the revenue or the postage upon the mail that goes to the other country. So, inasmuch as tbe PAEOBLB POST. 189 British Government sees proper to enter into this convention with the American Express Co., or, as I have at times termed it, this "reciprocity treaty" with the American Express Co., it reheves the Post Office Department of the United States from the necessity of performing that service and receiving no pay therefor. Mr. Gardner. Have your investigations revealed to you to what extent the business done under that contract is affected by the more recent conventions by which the United States does now, by mail, deliver parcels at a postage rate? The convention of the Interna- tional Postal Union has adopted a scheme — I use that word for want of a better one — that must materially interfere with the business under that contract. Mr. Williams. I think not, and for this reason: As I understand those treaties between all the various countries, the country that sends out the mail — the letters, the packages, or whatever it is — going to the other countries, keeps the postage paid on that mail, and deHvers all that is coming to it from all the other countries. In other words, the United States keeps all the postage arising from mail mailed in this country addressed to other countries, and the other countries do the same thing. Mr. Gardner. Yes; but under this convention mail coming from England is now delivered by the United States to the addressees, which prior to that convention could only have been delivered through the express companies. But if you have not investigated that subject, never mind. Mr. Williams. As I recall, the only convention that is now in existence between the United States and the British Government was made prior to this contract. That is as the dates now lie in my mind. Mr. Gardner. The contract by which we send the 11 pounds by mail across the continent ? Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. Mr. Gardner. No; my impression is to the contrary, but I am not sure. Mr. Williams. I am not sure about that. An examination of the convention, of course, would disclose the information. There is another reason for the consideration of this contract at this time, and that is with particular reference to the bills now under con- sideration by the committee. We have here the experience of nine years of the British Government with this contract, quoting a rate of 36 cents on a parcel up to 3 pounds ; a rate of 48 cents on a parcel weighing from 3 to 7 pounds ; and a rate of 60 cents on a parcel of from 7 to 11 pounds. Now let us turn to the provisions of biU H. K. 8386, introduced by Mr. Howard, section 1 : That hereafter the poatage rates on mail matter of the fourth class, except as herein- after provided , shall be aa follows : One cent per ounce or fraction thereof on all matter of such class weighing not to exceed 8 ounces, and on such matter weighing in excess of 8 ounces, 8 cents, and 2 cents additional for each 4 ounces or fraction thereof in excess of 8 ounces, no package to weigh in excess of 11 pounds. Let us analyze that for a moment. That leaves the rate at a cent an ounce up to half a pound, and 2 cents for each 4 ounces or fraction thereof. Then that would make 1 pound 12 cents; 2 pounds 20 cents; 3 pounds 28 cents; 4 pounds 190 PABCELS POST. 36 cents; and there you have arrived just exactly at the 3-pound rate of the contract with the American Express Co., and so on, until you have the 11 pounds at 92 cents, if I am following right — higher than the contract of 60 cents. The conclusion seems to me quite proper that the experience of the British Government and the American Express Co. in handling those packages ought to be reasonably controlling with reference to the proposition of making rates upon matter of that character, because that is a system of flat rates; and not only that, but the little package is entitled to a higher charge. It should have, in my opinion, a higher charge. If I have a 2-ounce package, I will never complain at paying 2 cents to send it. If I have a pound package, 12 cents is exactly what the Post Office Department figures that it: is costing it. And so this steps up, and, being higher than the rates of this contract, is justified, in my opinion, by the further consideration that the contract only relates to express delivery to express points — to points where the rails reach. It is a proper rate, taking into con- sideration the fact that a portion of the parcels handled by the United States mails under such a system would extend to points involving other carriage than rail carriage, such as rural route and star' route carriage, and divers and sundry other features. I beheve, however, that this charge up to 92 cents for an 11-pound package is sufficiently high — and above the experience of the British Government as shown by this contract — for a proper return to the Post Office Department for the service performed. Mr. Wkeks. Mr. Williams, let me ask a question at that point. I have not examined this contract, and therefore I do not know what other considerations may have entered into the making of these rates. If that were the only item in the contract, or the only consideration which the American Express Co. gave for its English business, that might be conclusive. But let me call this matter to your attention, which occurs to me just now: The American Express Co. does not deUver the package to the individual to whom the package is addressed, as would be the case in this country. It notifies him that the package is at its office, and the person who is to receive the package sends and gets it. It does not make any difference what the contract may say as to that. I have had personal experience with its operation, and I know that that is so. , Again, the American Express Co. does a very large business in England. I do not know whether it pays any taxes for that or not; I do not know under what consideration it does that business, or how it got the privilege. But most American travelers going abroad now take American Express Co. checks, and use those checks instead of following the usual procedure, which is to have a credit with some London banker, and they find them a great benefit and a great accommodation to them. Is it not possible that there are a great many such considerations that enter into the making of these rates which have nothing whatever to do with the cost of the service performed ? Mr. Williams. That is possible, but I hardly think it is probable. Mr. Weeks. Have you mvestigated to see whether that is true or not? Mr. Williams. I have no means of ascertaining. PAKCBLS POST. 191 . The Chairman. Why would it not be probable, if they have advan- .tages there that are not accorded to other companies and are per- mitted to do a business there that is not done by anybody else? Why should the Government not be expected to receive something in return ? Mr. Williams. I say it is not probable, in my opinion, for the rea- son that I do not think the British Government would be so anxious to afford an express company a privilege for which it did not receive quite satisfactory compensation. Of course that compensation might enter iato the terms of this contract. I appreciate the fact that that is apossibihty. But there is another side to that matter also, in that the express company contracts with the British Government to perform additional services other than carriage. So that would decrease the value of the carriage, and I have assumed these rates as being simply the carriage charges in considering the rates suggested in some of the pending bills. Mr. Weeks. I do not know anything about it ; I am simply asking you if you have investigated all the facts bearing on this contract. I shall investigate them to see if any of them do have any bearing on the charge which is made for this service. It may not be true that they do. • Mr. Williams. My investigation only went to the extent of the information that I was able to secure from conversations with ofHcials in the Interstate Commerce Commission. I was iaformed by them that the express company claimed that the volume of this business afforded just about the same average return as a similar volume of business handled in the United States. They made that claim — so I was advised. I started to make some observations with reference to the claims of the Post Office Department as to the cost of handling different classes of mail matter; particularly, at this time, fourth-class matter. I am not 'prepared to and do not controvert the correctness of their 'figures, the reasonableness of the division of the various classifica- tions of > expense, or anything of that kind. The tables shown in the statement issued by the Post Office Department in 1910 under the hand of Mr. Joseph Stewart, Second Assistant Postmaster General, showing the estimates (and the processes by which they were made) of the" cost of transporting and handling the several classes of mail matter, put the cost to the Government of handhng fourth-class mail matter at 12 cents plus per pound and the revenue thereof at a trifle above 16. The rate is 16 cents a pound, but the matter of the frac- tions is to be considered. _ _ ■ There is one other observation to be considered at this time with reference to the first section of Mr. Howard's bill, in that the frac- tional ounces are so adjusted there as to leave a large margin in favor of the Government. When you pass 8 ounces the rate is not a half cent an ounce or a cent for 2 ounces, but 2 cents for 4 ounces, or a fraction thereof. So if a package weighed 8i ounces the charge on it would be one dime. There are all these different things to be con- sidered. You have a 4-ounce margin there, and every time you exceed that margin by even a fraction you have to put on a 2-cent ■stamp; That, I believe, is preferable to the provisions of the biU which was introduced by the chairman of the Post Office Committee 192 PAEOBLS POST. in the Sixty-first Congress, providing a graduated rate of about three- quarters of a cent a pound. The provisions of that bill, however, would have made it necessary to provide a new form of fractional currency in order to buy the necessary stamps and a completely new kind of stamps, inasmuch as they were fractional. Mr. Gardner. Eight there, if you will permit me to interrupt you Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. Mr. Gardner. I suppose you are aware that it has been demon- strated by Mr. Murdock and others that the postal system has sur- vived on the fractions? That is, if the fractions were eliininated, this system would fall into such a deficit that it could not survive. Mr. Williams. And this bill protects the revenue of the Govern- ment by more fractions than existing systems, because the present rate is a cent an ounce or a fraction thereof, and here you have all the fractions in units of 4 ounces. So I should say that we had about eight times as many fractions as under existing conditions. Mr. Gardner. Still, it is probable that it will always be true that the great profit in the fractions wiU be on letters. Mr. Williams. That is quite probable. Now we pass to the con- sideration of the second section of the bill. The Chairman. Are you taking the Howard bUl as the basis of your argument ? Mr. Williams. As the basis of my remarks so far; yes, sir. I am inclined to think that this cent-an-ounce proposition is better, is more just to the Government, and is more reasonable even to the user of the service than the proposition of simply a cent for each 2 ounces, or fraction thereof, making a flat rate of 8 cents a pound. There you pay 1 cent for an ounce package, but you would only pay a cent for a 2-ounce package. In other words, under that system the frac- tions are all against the Government, all against the revenues of the Post Office Department, where here they are put against the user of the service. I am in favor of resolving the doubts in favor of the service every time, because the cost of the service has to be met, and the user of it is the logical person to pay the bill. Mr. Weeks. Then you are not in favor of the benign idea that we should perform a service for less than the service costs ? Mr. Williams. I am not. Eight there let us put into the record the observations of President John Quincy Adams upon an ideal post-office system, which upon more than one occasion I have heard you almost meet. This is from the first message of President John Quincy Adams. There are a few words that I do not quite get in this quotation — that is, the first few words; but they do not change the meaning of the quotation. I state here [reading]: President John Quincy Adams defined, in a message to Congress, the proper use of the postal establishment as "embracing the comforts of friendly correspondence"— There is your first-class mail — "the exchanges of internal traflBc" — There is your parcels post — "and the lights of the periodical press shall be distributed to the remotes.t comers of the Union, at a charge scarcely perceptible to any individual, and wiihout the cost of a doUar to the Public Treaflury." PABOBLS POST. 193 Right there, it occurs to me, is a proper place to consider the proposition that fourth-class mail matter should circulate on a fiat rate. Except to a reasonably limited degree that is not true. It is, however, true of two classes of mail matter, and possibly, under existing classifications, of the third class as well. Letters are first class. I do not care whether I live in the Philippine Islands, or New York City, or Washington, or on the plains of New Mexico, or on the wheat fields — so soon to be deserted — of North Dakota, or in Mianeapolis, or Chicago, or any other place. Every consideration of public weKare requires that I be able to communicate with citi- zens in other parts of our common country with whom I have deal- ings, to receive messages from them, to transact such business as I may have to conduct with them, and to communicate my ideas and views upon such matters as I wish to communicate, besides the propo- sition of friendly correspondence, and that I be able to do that regardless of whether I am at a remote, isolated place up in Alaska, or in the Philippines, or anywhere else at the same cost as you, sitting here in Washington. We must all have that facility for information and exchange of ideas. That is a proper matter to siinply be made flat, and the feUow that uses it most, of course, sh«uld simply pay the most for it. But no embargo upon my ability to so communicate should ever be put upon such mail matter simply because the exi- gencies of my employment, or the service that I am attempting to perform to society, or to myself, or to. my family cause me to get into an out-of-the-way place rather than in one of the large centers. The same observations are equally true with reference to second- class mail matter, in that it involves the matter of education and of information. Perhaps, as stated a moment ago, the same considera- tions are apphcable to most of the third-class matter as now classi- fied — books, etc. But, in my opinion, gentlemen, that is not true as regards fourth-class matter, taken as a whole. As it seems to me, it is not a proper matter of consideration with a view to the general welfare whether I take my after-dinner smoke in a Missouri meer- schaum pipe made in Washington, Mo., or a briar pipe made in Grand Kapids, Mich., or whether I smoke Burley tobacco from Kentucky, or Manila cigars; whether I wear a Panama hat or one made in Boston; whether I wear a collar made in Troy, N. Y., or one made in Kalamazoo; or whether I wear shoes made in Massachusetts or shoes made in St. Louis. It is not a matter of pubUc concern. It is not a matter of the general welfare, taken in the aggregate. But there are some considerations why a reasonable parcels post should be provided that will enable me to meet such exigencies as may arise m the conduct of my business, or in mj commercial rela- tions with my fellow men. There comes the justification for a flat rate covering certain classes of mail matter, or certain Umitations of weight upon mail matter. We will say that I am an artisan, using some particular kind of tool for carving a chair, or some particular kind of paint for painting a picture. I want a tube of paint, for example, and there is nobody within 200 miles of me that I know of — there may be such people, we will say, but I do not know them— that keeps the very thing that I want. It is a small article. The necessity for its use wul not often arise, and the times when I wiU use such a service will perhaps be very mfrequent. But when I do want it, I 3110— n ^13 X94 PARCELS POST. ought to be able to go practically to the ends of the earth for that identical and particular thing that fits my peculiar need. One other observation upon that Une: I think we, as American people, have a habit of getting most woefully excited about a great many pending measures of legislation. Legislation usually; follows behind, instead of preceding, the pubhc idea or the pubHc informa- tion. The parcels post is not a panacea for very many ills, nor is it a thing that will ruin any person — not one. It will not seriously injure anybody. But in a nation of 92,000,000 people, distributed as we are over a continent as broad as this, there are occasions, and sufficient occasions, in the daily experience of our people calling for and needing a service such as these parcels-post bills are designed to supply, and those demands are such that the service wUl afford a com- fort and a convenience to all of the people at some particular time ia their experience. An old grandmother, for instance, wants to send a cake for Christ- mas or for a birthday to a grandson in California, or, perhaps, in the Philippine Islands. Some one wants to remember an anniversary. But a boy in CaUfornia would like to have one of his grandmothers' fruitcakes for Christmas. She goes down to the express office and finds that it will cost her more than she can think about, and she has to send him a cold piece of coin, in order that he may go and buy a cake, or something else. Those things arise in the experience of everyone — not, perhaps, in their daily experience, but from time to time. The Chairman. You want to arrange to send the cake through the mail, do you ? Mr. Williams. I should say so; yes, sir. It falls within the definition of mailable matter. It is not a thing that would destroy the mails. If somebody wants to send through the mails a cake that weighs 10 pounds, and wants to pay the rate provided, I think it is quite proper that the opportunity should be afforded. Mr. Weeks. I should think the fact that a cake weighed 10 pounds would indicate that it must be heavy. Mr. Williams. Most fruit cakes are. Mr. Weeks. If the coin were sent,the boy could buy at the other end of the line a better cake and a fresher one than one made by mother. Mr. Williams. Not a fruit cake. Mr. Gregg. Fruit cakes get better as they get older. Mr. Williams. Yes; fruit cakes get better as they get older. The Chairman. Would you send the custard that accompanies the cake ? Mr. Williams. Oh, no; I limit my illustration to mailable matter. The Chairman. I know from experience in our family that cus- tards go further than cake ; and I thought that if you sent the cake you ought to send the custard too. [Laughter.] Mr. Williams. No; I would simply send the receipt. That would be all that would go with it. There is a further observation that is necessary at this time in regard to this biU, and that is the matter which I partially discussed yesterday afternoon, with reference to the provision defining the word "packet." I want to tell you exactly what it means. It PARCELS POST. 195 means that all matter that is mailable, and of course the 11-pound provision would simply raise the limit, must go in the mails. There has arisen m the past few years considerable discussion in the pubhc prints and in the official reports, in messages of the Presi- dents, with reference to the subject of mail matter of the second class. As I stated a while ago, I have no disposition to question the statements of the officials of the Post Office Department or of its accountants as to what it does cost to handle the matter that they do handle. But you perhaps apprehend from what I stated yes- teday afternoon, and what I have already stated this forenoon, that the difficulty and the trouble is that the Post Office Depart- ment has not been handling all of such matter. So grant that it does cost the Post Office Department 9 cents a pound to handle what it does handle; grant that. That is not conclusive for the very good reason that the second-class matter that they do not handle is handled by the express companies and railroads at rates ranging from 25 cents to 50 cents a hundred pounds — or, in other words, from a quarter to a half a cent, a pound. In my opinion, before the Post Office Department may properly ask of Congress an increase of rates upon matter of the second class it must not carry simply the single- wrapper long-haul portion of the business, but it must take these bags full that go to the news- dealers and to the boys along the railroad to sell from day to day. Only in that way can you get a proper result as to the cost of handling such matter and to the revenues as well. The express companies and railroads would not handle it at the rate of a quarter to a half a cent a pound unless it were profitable so to do. The Chairman. Have you any estimates to show what part of the express business would be taken over by the Government, and what part of the freight business would be taken over by the Government, if all packets that were mailable were required to be carried as mail ? Mr. Williams. That is a matter impossible of determination from any official or other information at hand. You can reason about it somewhat, however. Take, for instance, mail matter of the fourth class: If you will do as I have done — examine the loading or unload- ing of an express car at a city — and just see what proportion of the packages are readily discernible to be of 4 pounds weight or less, and then take the tonnage reports from the reports of the Interstate Commerce Commission, you can very readily calculate the approxi- mate proportion. Of course it will be necessary to make observa- tions in different places, as I have done. It seems to me that it would be a considerable proportion. The Chairman. Will it be half of the express, in your judgment ? Mr. Williams. Oh, no; not with a limit of 4 pounds. The Chairman. I mean with a limit of 1 1 pounds. Mr. Williams. If the limit were 11 pounds, it would take in about half the express in my opinion. The first annual report of the Inter- state Commerce Commission, Washington, 1911, entitled "Statis- tics of Express Companies for the Year Ending June 30, 1909," shows on page 18 a table giving the' combined returns of a number of the express companies — aU of the large ones — upon weighings and revenue for the months of April, August, and December, 1909. I will say that since I came to Washington this time I called at the office of the statistician of the Interstate Commerce Commission 196 PABCELS POST. to ascertain whether or not these returns that were made by the express companies embraced the figures upon each separate, parttcu- lar piece. The Interstate Commerce Commission requu-ed the express companies to keep a record of their weighings and to report on them for these particular months, and the express companies compHed. Naturally, perhaps, the express companies have those data all separated in their oflices as to different pounds, because an agent making a report of the packages that he shipped would neces- sarily have to set down the number of pounds. But the reports when they went to the Interstate Commerce Comndssion simply complied with the order of the commission, and were simply divided into three classes — shipments weighing 100 pounds or less, shipments weighing over 100 pounds, and extraordinary shipments. ' Extra- ordinary shipments" meant such propositions as corpses, or auto- mobiles, and a few things like that. The Chairman. Horses? Mr. Williams. Horses, and things of that sort; yes. It is inter- esting to note, there, that the express companies charge a very great deal more from San Francisco to China to send back a Chiaa- man's ashes than they do an ordinary citizen's body. They dis- criminate. I do not remember just exactly the details — 1 have not them at hand right here now — but that is the situation. They know the habit of the Chinaman. The Chairman. Do you mean to say that they charge more for transporting the ashes of a Chinaman than for the body of a white man? Mr. Williams. I think that is correct; I think it is correct. Anyway, they charge more for a Chinaman. Mr. Gregg. A dead Chinaman. A Gentleman. He said, "the ashes." You said, "the body." Mr. Gregg. It says here that they charge more for the dead body of a Chinaman — not the ashes — than they do for the dead body of an American. Mr. Williams. That is what it is. They charge more for a China- man than they do for an American. The Chairman. It is the body; not the ashes ? Mr. Williams. Yes; that is right. They charge more for a China- man than they do for an American. That is correct; that is what it is. They take advantage of the belief of the Chinaman that he must neces- sarily be buried in Chinese soil. In other words, gentlemen, if you will look over the history of express companies, you will find them taking advantage of every E articular idiosyncrasy, every lapse in the law, or anything of the ind, every time. They have so adjusted their rates that theirs is the most scientific system of modern shoplifting that has ever been devised by the brain of man. Mr. Weeks. What do you mean by "shoplifting" ? Mr. Williams. As used in this sense, it is the skillful taking away of a few pennies here and there from the American people, which in the aggregate make a very large amount. Mr. Weeks. If you were the manager of an express company, would you not adjust your rates so as to get the business ? Mr. Williams. I should certainly adjust my rates so as to get the business; yes, sir. I am not sure, and I do not know that it is PAHCELS POST. 197 pertinent to this inquiry to say, that I should adjust them so as to get the highest rate that I possibly could get. I might or I might not. Mr. Weeks. That is a very broad question. Mr. Williams. Certainly. There are a good many considerations, and people vary and have different ideas. In fact, gentlemen, the first express company was a man, an idea, and a carpetbag. His capital was a carpetbag. The first carpetbagger was an expressman. Express companies have ever been carpetbaggers in the transporta- tion business of this country. That is not solely my opinion. To show that I have basis for that conclusion in an investigation of their history and their capital, and things of that kind, and official reports, I read from page 34 of the report just mentioned: The balance-sheet etatement shows very clearly that it is through the profits of the business that the large assets have been accumulated; and it may be safely asserted that the original investment in this business as a whole was relatively insignificant. The express business is perhaps the best illustration which the country affords of the accumulation of considerable assets out of revenues. v In other words, the enormous capital and investment of express companies to-day came out of that carpetbag. I saw a little cartoon the other day representing an express com- pany melon, a 300 per cent melon; they were cutting the dividend, and the dear public was watering the melon patch for the benefit of the melons. The truth of the matter is that the public does not fat even the rind of the express company melon. Not only that, ut as it has been manipulated, our postal system — for which the Congress of the United States is responsible — gets the lemon. The express companies gather the bananas in Uncle Sam's orchard, and leave him the skins — the short, unprofitable portion of the business. Now to a consideration of this bill Mr. Weeks. Let me ask you right there, Mr. Williams: Are you famUiar with cases that have been taken to the Interstate Commerce Commission, appealing from the rates of express companies ? Mr. Williams. Fairly so; yes, sir. Mr. Weeks. Are there many such cases ? Mr. Williams. A good many. Mr. Weeks. What has been the result of the action of the com- mission ? Mr. Williams. In some instances they have been dismissed by the commission and in other instances the rates have been reduced. Mr. Weeks. How does the number of cases compare with the number of cases where requests have been made for a change of rail- road rates ? Mr. Williams. I could not say. I do not think there have been as many cases against express companies, even in proportion to the volume of business done, as in the case of railroads — for the reason, as I stated a moment ago, that the express companies so skilfully adjust these matters that the overcharge is only a matter of a few cents, and the business of the majority of people with express com- panies consists of only occasional transactions. As you will discover by figuring the number of pieces of matter that are handled by express companies and then dividing that by the millions of people in the United States, it is just a few packages each. To even write a letter to the Interstate ' Commerce Commission and put a 2-cent 198 PAKCBLS POST. postage stamp on it would in the course of a few weeks consume the amount of the overcharge or the amount of the complaint in many- instances. The Chairman. Mr. Williams, do you think there is any more com- plaiat against the charges made by express companies than there is against the railroad companies for the charges made by them for slupments of various kinds ? Mr. Williams. It is of a different character; it is about petty annoyances, and things of that kind. The Chaieman. Is it not true, as a rule, that the man who uses the express uses it because he wants expedition, and ordinarily is perfectly willing to pay for that expedition the actual charge which the express coinpany makes ? Mr. Williams. In the majority of instances that apphes; and besides, in the majority of express business, it is such as can be passed on to the ultimate consumer. Mr. Gaedner. Judge, do you know whether or not it is true that the Interstate Commerce Commission is confronted with difficulties in dealing with express companies for the reason that the large profits of the express companies result from a comparatively small capital and an enormous busiaess, so that, figured on the percentage of busi- ness done, the profits are not great, though great on the capital, and that they find that a small reduction in price so affects the percentage of profit on that business that the matter becomes a sensitive one ? Mr. Williams. I am quite aware that that is true. The Chaieman. In some other classes of business the question of transportation needs to be taken into the account; but all express matter is carried by the railroads. Mr. Williams. Yes. The Chaieman. So that the question of the purchase of transpor- tation, the investment in transportation, is not involved in the consideration. Mr. Williams. That is quite true. The Chaieman. In other words, if I may use the expression and be understood, they rent the railroads for the purposes of their transportation ? Mr. Williams. And, if I may be permitted to add, for the exploita- tion of the public. A correct system will simply require the railroads to perform the proper service, and permit the Post Office Department to carry what the Congress of the United States desires it to take; and right there the railroads start in. The Chaieman. In your judgment, then, Mr. Lewis's idea, not necessarily his bill, but his idea, is the correct one — that there ought to be no express companies ; that the railroad companies ought to do a part of the business that is now done by the express companies, and the other portion of that business ought to be done by the Government ? Mr. Williams. That is correct. In other words, as the express conxpanies started out, they got nothing but a contract with the rail- roads; and, as an investigation will show, those contracts were very often secured from the officers of the railroads by making the officers part of the express companies ; and they were a fraud upon the rights of the stockholders in the roads. PAKOELS POST. 199 The Chairman. It is true to-day that the railroads are more orless interested in the express business, is it not ? Mr. Williams. They have large holdings of express company stock and the express companies have large holdings ot railway stock. Mr. Weeks. Is it true that the railways have large holdings of express company stocks ? Mr. Williams. The same report of the Interstate Commerce Com- mission that I referred to awhile ago gives the figures. I can turn to them in a moment. On page 35 of the report mentioned, Table No. 6 says: The total of express company holdings of railroad stocks is slightly less than a quarter of a million dollars unpledged. Mr. Weeks. Read that again. Mr. Willlams. I say it is shghtly less than a quarter of a milhon dollars. Mr. Weeks. No; read the whole statement — just what you did read before ? Mr. Williams. This in entitled: " Statement showing holdings of express companies in the stock of railway companies on June 30, 1909." Mr. Weeks. But that was not what I asked. I asked if it were true that the railroads own large holdings of express company stock. Mr. Williams. I understood you to reverse it. Mr. Weeks. No; I did not. Mr. Williams. What I have just read is the amount of holdings of , express companies in railroad stocks. The Chairman. They have $250,000, do you say ? Mr. Williams. $250,000. The railroad companies' holdings of express stock, as shown in tables of Summary No. 7 on page 36, for the same date, were $14,124,000. Mr. Gregg. Does that give the names of the railroads ? Mr. Williams. It does. The holdings of express companies in the stock of railroads are not anything at all like the holdings of rail- roads in the stock of express companies. Mr. Gardner. WiU the tables disclose the information how much of that express stock held by railroads is in express companies that are comparatively local, inaugurated under and controlled by the railroads ? Mr. Williams. I am not sure that the summary or the tables in that report will show it; but inquiry at the Interstate Commerce Commission wiU give every single, soHtary, separate one of those things. The Chairman. That table includes the Northern Express Co., does it, which is owned by the Great Northern Railroad ? Mr. Williams. I am unable to say from memory. Mr. Weeks. The Northern Pacific Express Co. ? The Chairman. Yes; the Northern Pacific, owned by the Northern Pacific Co. Mr. Gregg. What proportion of express company stock do the railroads hold, accormng to that? Mr. Williams. That can be ascertained by reference to the report mentioned. Of course I do not know that it is important that we should attempt to figure it out just now. It is found in the report. 200 PABCBIiS POST. Mr. Gardner. No ; if we can get it, all right. But that is not what I mean. It is very important to know what stock railroads might own in the Adams Express Co. or the United States Express Co. or the American Express Co.; but the figures are without value unless we can separate from them the amount of the aggregate that repre- sents the capitalization of express companies that are part of the railroad systems, run by them, generally local in their nature, and that have no relation whatever to the great express companies of the country. Mr. Williams. The information is either contained in the report mentioned, or is easily available — ^immediately available. The Inter- state Commerce Commission can get it for you in 10 minutes. Mr. Gaednee. Very well; then we can get it. Mr. Williams. Yes, if it is not in this report. Mr. Geegg. Does that report show whether or not these express coropanies own their own cars ? Mr. Williams. It shows all the details of those things — what cars, how many automobiles, and how many horses they have — that is, what they have invested; and I beheve in some instances it actually separates it into the number of such things — the number of vehicles, horses, trucks, safes, real estate, and other details. If the particular details of those things are not to be found in that report, they can be promptly ascertained upon inquiry at the Interstate Commerce Com- mission, because the express companies have to make very complete reports. Every separate report from each express company is a book perhaps as big as the pamphlet mentioned. Mr. Weeks. I notice at the end of this statement made by Mr. Adams relative to his express company something which has been brought out by Mr. Gardner in a previous question — a reference to the amount of business which express companies have to do in pro- portion to the revenue which they collect. It is stated here that some of the larger companies issue from three to four millions of waybills each month. Do you not think that if the Government were taking that over and doing that business it would find it a pretty eomplicated and expensive proposition to handle ? Mr. Williams. As I understand it, the Government has never attempted to handle matter upon waybills since the time stamps were created. Before that time everything was waybilled — letters and everything else. But since the time of the creation of the stamp they have never handled anything as a waybill proposition. The only thing that will compare with it is the present system of handling registered mail. Certainly no one, I think, would contemplate the idea of waybilling packages. Mr. Gardner. Judge, may I ask this question at this place, lest I should not think of it again ? You have given several illustrations, but have you hit upon any principle, easily stated, that should be applied in determining what is and what is not mailable matter ? Mr. Williams. Nothing except the limitations of the service and a proper regard for other mail matter, for all classes of mail matter. In other words, heretofore the Congress of the United States has simply excluded such as it did not accept and has stated it in general terms — some more or less specific, but all the time using some general terms as to what is excluded from the mails. PAEOELB POST. 201 The Chairman. You think everything is included that is not excluded ? Mr. Williams. All who are outside of this room are not in it. Mr. Gardner. The necessity for it, I take it, has not existed to such an extent as it will under a parcels-post system. It was easy to make first-class matter and some other things exclusive, and "give the Government a monopoly," as it is usually expressed. Mr. Williams. But even that was not done. Mr. Gardner. But in an extension of the system to a parcels post, such as is advocated here by several speakers and such as seems to be a necessity for the farmers, it would become necessary, it strikes me, to find some general principle which can be applied. You, in your argu- ment, and everyone who figures on the subject, find a necessity for an exclusive privilege in the Government — ia other words, some method of preventmg the couomon carriers from taking the short hauls under a flat rate and having the long hauls turned over to the Government. It has occurred to me that when we come to deal with the subject on that scale we shall have to find some principle which can be relied upon, rather than the different notions of each official (assuming that the Post Office Department had the power), or each committee (assuming that this committee had the power) — that the investiga- .tion ought to reveal some general principle that can be taken as a guide. Mr. Williams. In the consideration of all of those questions and of all of the objections that I have ever heard or read as urged against the adoption of the parcels post, I have been able, satisfactorily to my own mind (and I claim no particular astuteness) , to find every one of them met in existing statutes. Mr. Gardner. I have no doubt it would be perfectly satisfactory if you could live as long as I hope you will, and administer it. Mr. Willlams. I thank you. Mr. Gardner. But you might feel very much aggrieved at the administration by somebody else of those ideas if there was no definiteprinciple within which they could be brought. Mr. Williams. I take it that the principles have been already marked out, over an experience of 75 or something like 100 years, and are accurately and tersely stated in existing statutes, to which I alluded yesterday. The Chairman. But your theory of monopoly has been abandoned for numbers of years. Mr. Williams. Congress has never abandoned the theory. The Chairman. I am talking about the actual status. As far as the administration of the thing is concerned it has been abandoned, because aU kinds of packets or packages except first-class matter are sent by express. Mr. Williams. That is true; and I should be glad to have you ask the officials of the Post Office Department for about 40 years back why they abandoned that profitable business to the benefit of the express companies and to the detriment of the pubhc service? I should like to know what their answer is. I have been endeavoring to get an answer to that question for four years, and in many instances I can not even get an acknowledgment of the receipt of a courteous letter. 202 PAECELS POST. Mr. Weeks. Mr. Williams, to return to these tables relating to hold- iags of railroad and express company stocks, of course it goes without saying that the connection between certaui express companies and railroads is pretty close; but I notice that of the $14,124,000 held in express company stocks by railroads all but $4,530,000 is in the stocks of express companies which are owned exclusively by railroads in which the pubhc has no interest. Mr. Gaednee. That is the question I asked. It is there, is it ? , Mr. Weeks. Yes. Mr. Williams. The tables, of courscj speak for themselves; but I do not think that from that reasoniag it can be said that the public has no interest. Mr. Weeks. Perhaps not; but the only cases where the stocks of general express companies are owned by railroads are those of the New York Central EaUroad, which owns three millions of American . Express Co. stock, and the Southern Pacific Railroad, which owns $1,530,000 of Wells-Fargo stock. In the other cases the express companies are organized for doing the express business over the roads which own the stocks. Mr. Williams. The tables and the information found in other memoranda in the reports of course speak for themselves, and every- one can draw his own conclusions with reference to them. Right there I will say that my information is that the Pacific Express Co. goes out of business on the first day of next July. Mr. Weeks. There are six millions of that stock owned by three railroads. Mr. Williams. There are six millions of that stock owned by three railroads, and those roads are retiring from the express busi- ness, but turning it over to the Wells-Fargo Express Co. Whether that six miUions will show up in an increased capitalization of the Well-Fargo Co. I do not know; and I do not know what they are paying for that privilege. I suppose future reports of the Interstate Commerce Commission will disclose that. Mr. Gaednee. Judge Wilhams, I do not want to prolong this; but Mr. WnxiAMS. I am enjoying it. Mr. Gaednee. I confess — it may be my fault — that I fail to comprehend you in your criticisms — which sound just — of the department for permitting the competition of the express companies, and when it comes to the matter of preventing it, and its being fully covered by existing statutes, I do not understand you at all. For instance, there are parcels-post bills pending before this committee. The propaganda in their favor is scarcely stronger anywhere than among the druggists, the idea being, of course, that the mail can be used for carrying perfumeries and the hke. If the Government takes over that business, it must, according to what I understand to be your present theory, do it exclusively — in common, popular phrase, "have a monopoly of it." The situation is not met by your saying "mailable matter," because it will only become mailable matter when so packed as to make it mailable matter. If the express com- panies can still be given the short haul by putting it in one kind of package and the Government the long haul by putting it in another kind of package, all the reasons for your cnticisms will still exist and are not met by existing law. PABCEr,S POST. 203 Mr. Williams. I am glad you brought up again the matter of liquids. Mr. Gardner. I do not care whether it is a hquid or not. I used that simply as an illustration. Mr. Williams. Liquids Under 4 pounds are at present not mailable for the reason that they fall withm the inhibitions of the section to which I alluded yesterday — that they are liable to damage or destroy the contents of the mail bag. Mr. Gardner, That is not the point I am after. Take marbles, silk, or anything. Mr. Williams. Let us follow out one at a time, if you please. Mr. Gardner. I want the principle, not the particular thing. Mr. Williams. AU right. The Postmaster General has issued a regulation that if you will pack liquids in a certain form he will accept them. Mr. Gardner. Yes. Mr. Williams. All right. Mr. Gardner. Right there; that regulation will have to apply very generally under a parcels-post system. Mr. Williams. Undoubtedly. Mr. Gardner. Very well. Mr. Williams. And it must be left to the judgment of the post- master in the administration of the law as to whether he will accept the package or not. Mr. Gardner. Yes. But right there, what becomes of the exclu- sive right, yo r monopoly, without the power to compel it all to be packed ? My. Williams. All right. The Post Office Department should be t'ealous of securing as much business as it possibly can, subject to the imitation of law that it must not accept anything that is going to damage or destroy the contents of the mail bag. It prescribes a cer- tain package for a certain thing, that by being so used becomes mail- able; but it discovers that a different agency — an express company, if you please — ^is developing a method of handling that particular stuff that is absolutely safe and secure and could be adopted by the Post Office Department. Instantly, by an amendment of the regu- lations prescribing how it shall be packed, that can be covered. And what does the postmaster do, being jealous of the revenues of the Government? He instantly amends his regulation to include that kind of a package and it becomes mailable. Good-by, Mr. Express Company ! Mr. Gardner. Then you rely upon the Government's copying of the express company's requirements for the package ? Mr. Williams. I do not. I rely, as you must, upon administra- tion to a certain extent. • Congress can not tell how that clause of the post-office law must be administered. As I say, I rely upon the administration of the Post Office Department being at all times jealous of the revenues of the department. If some change arises in the manner of carrying a particular commodity that before was non- mailable under the law, and the Post Office Department says, "We ought to be able to do the same thing in the same way," I will amend the regulation as to packages of that particular character of matter, and it instantly becomes mailable matter when so packed. 204 PABCELS POST. The Chaieman. But is not your assumption a rather violent one at the present time — that the Post Office Department is jealous about its busmess and is going to include everything that may be included in the mail? Is not the disposition on the part of the Government to exclude everything from the mails that may be excluded ? Mr. Williams. I am sorry to say that that has been rather the attitude of the administration of the department— to endeavor to drive business away from the post office rather than to exercise con- trol over it. The Chairman. So that is a question of policy which the Congress does not control, and no citizen would control? That is a question of administration which is determined by the department itself. It would be exactly like the case of a business firm. Here are two business firms, side by side: One encourages a certain line of business; the other discourages it. One will build up trade, and the other will not. Mr. Williams. Certainly, I realize that. But the way Congress controls the matter is by making it unlawful for mailable matter to be carried otherwise than in the mail. The Chairman. I know; that is done now. The law provides that certain things can not be carried otherwise than in the mail. But there are many other things that might be carried if the Post Office Department encouraged their carrying, as you assume it ought to do. The idea of jealousy of its business does not seem to appertain to the department now, and has not for a number of years. Mr. Williams. I am sorry to say that that is true. The Chairman. In making that statement I do not mean any reflection upon the present Postmaster General, nor upon the present administration . Mr. Williams. Neither do I. I think they have simply dropped into it, perhaps unconsciously. The Chairman. It has been true in the past, but how are you going to change that trend? That has been the trend of affairs for the 40 years that you talk about. Mr. Williams. By enforcing the law. The Chairman. But who will do it ? Mr. Williams. Congress. The Chairman. I beg your pardon; Congress does not control it. Mr. Williams. By amending the law, I mean, so that that unfor- tunate construction may be no longer indulged in. The Chairman. No new law that we can pass here will make the construction of the word "packet" that you make. Nothing that we may do here wiU require the administration to carry everything that might be carried and secure a monopoly of the business. Mr. Williams. In the abstract that may be true; but in the prac- tical application of the matter it is not true. The Chairman. I think it is just the other way, if I am not mis- taken. In the abstract it is not true, but in the practical application it is true to-day. _ Mr. Williams. The practical application relates to these excep- tional kinds of articles. We take the rough ones all the time. We have almost gotten to the point of considering the proposition of carrying a dynamite package. That is excluded in direct terms by the law, and a lot of other things are excluded in direct terms, and PAEOEtS POST. 205 it is certainly no violence to reasonable judgment to say that when you exclude certain things all other things are included. The Chairman. I am not questioning your position now, for the purposes of this inquiry. I take it for granted that your position is correct with reference to the word "packet," and that your construc- tion of the law is correct and that the Government, in fact, has the monopoly in carrying packages of mail within the hmitations pre- scribed by the statute. Abstractly, theoretically, it has. Practically it has not, because it has not been using its monopoly. In other words, it has allowed its profitable business to escape by not using its monopoly, and it is left in charge of the business that is not profitable. Mr. Williams. That is very true, but I am sure you do not mean that by making this proposition absolutely incapable of misinterpre- tation, the Post Office Department would continue in its way, or the Department of Justice. The Chairman. I understand you to state, however, that the law is now plain, and that the law has been violated. Mr. Williams. I am sorry you were not here yesterday. The Chairman. I was here yesterday. Mr. Williams. I mean, when that particular question arose; and I said that the Department of Justice at this time was justified, under the decision of the Standard Oil case, in saying that when Congress used the words " letter or packet" in the revision of the laws and the enactment of the criminal code, it intended to use them according to the interpretation that existed in the year 1910. You see, that is the law under which we now five. In other words, the courts might say that Congress actually intended the words "letter or packet" to apply only to first-class mail matter. "Mr. Gardner. Judge, for my purpose I want to assume, not a disposition on the part of the Post Office Department to shun business, but a disposition to get all that it can. Let us assume that you, if you please, with a corps of assistants selected by yourself, of equal enthusiasm, were put m charge of the parcels post under this bill. One of the early questions with which you would be confronted, and a thing of which I am tired and want to stop, is the giving of the short hauls to common carriers and the long hauls to the Government. You would be enthusiastic; and not wanting to do that, you must make the regulations. The druggist, for instance, without regard to admin- istration, wants to use the parcels post. The Government establishes a flat rate; and your regulation will prescribe the method of packing those things. But you want exclusive transportation of them. You say that they must be packed in a certain way. The express com- panies say: "Inasmuch as we get the short hauls, we will issue a cir- cular that we will handle these articles in open boxes." Mr. Williams. All right. Mr. Gardner. If you lack the powier to require the packing of those things in such a way as to make them mailable matter, what becomes of your exclusive right to transport them? Mr. Williams. I would amend the mailable-matter requirements. Mr. Gardner. And have the Government take them over in open boxes ? Mr. Williams. And handle them in the same way— never put them in a bag or anything of that kind, but place them in a box — if I 206 PAKCELS POST. thought that was soniething that was seriously aflfecting the revenues of the department. 'Mi. Gardner. Then you are left to putting the Government in a competition on a flat rate ? Mr. Williams. Only in very rare instances. Mr. Gardner. I want to do away with the competition of the Gov- ernment on a flat rate with the common carrier on the short haul. Mr. Williams. All right. Mr. Gardner. I would like a proposition that would do that. I have not been able to comprehend that we have it yet. Mr. Williams. I think we get that in this bill of Mr. Howard's, and hkewise in the second section of Mr. Sulzer's bill. Mr. Gardner. Eead it, please. Mr. Williams. It simply quotes a lower rate, and uses the same terms. Mr. Gregg. Kead that section, Judge, please. Mr. Williams (reading) : That hereafter the postage rates on mail matter of the fourth class, delivered to any post office or branch post office, where the haul thereof does not exceed fifty miles, shall be as follows: Five cents for one pound or fraction thereof and two cents additional for each additional pound or fraction thereof, no package to weigh in excess of eleven pounds. For the purposes of this service each rural mail route shall be considered a post office for any point on such route. That may not quite cover it, but it occurs to me that the instances of that will be so rare The Chairman. I want to ask you this : What can you do, or what can be done by Congress, that would require the Saturday Evening Post to be dehvered in every part of the United States by mail ? Mr. Williams. Define the word "packet." The Chairman. How would you define it so as to make it effective in that way ? Mr. Williams. "That the word 'packet,' wherever used inlaws relating to the postal service, means all matter of every class which is by law made mailable." That is section 3. The Chairman. Do you construe a carload of the pubhcation known as the Saturday Evening Post to be mailable matter? Mr. Williams. I most certainly do. The Chairman. What distinction could you make between a car- load of the Saturday Evening Post and a carload of wheat ? Mr. Williams. One is by law made mailable, and the other is not. The Chairman. Wheat is mailable. Mr. Williams. Not a carload of wheat. Wheat is merchandise, and the weight Hmit is 4 pounds; but the Saturday Evening Post is mailable matter with no weight hmit, and the roof is off. The Chairman. I understand; but when they are combined and put in packages, as is the Saturday Evening Post, it is a carload lot. What is the difference between it and a carload of wheat ? Mr. Williams. One is good to eat, and the other is good for read- ing. [Laughter.] The Chairman. I am talking about the difference between them for mailable purposes. Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. You can carry the wheat up to 4 pounds. Mr. WiLLLAMS. Yes. PABCELS POST. 207 The Chaieman. You can mail each individual copy of the Saturday- Evening Post. Mr. Williams. Yes; or you can mail a carload of Saturday Eve- ning Posts simply by complying with the requirement that you put them in some sort of a package in which they may be handled. I believe the regulations of the Post Office Department Umit a bag of mail to 100 pounds. The Chairman. That is getting at the very point I have reference to. There is a hmitation on the weight that goes into a bag, and you must put the matter into a bag. The Saturday Evening Post is not even put into a bag. Mr. Williams. I understand so. I do not think there is any necessity for doing it. The Chairman. It is shipped openly, just like the wheat is shipped. Mr. Williams. I do not think there is any necessity for a regula- tion requiring putting it into a bag. That is a regulation — not a law of Congress. The Chairman. This may seem a little strange; but just follow the comparison a moment, because I aim to make a ridiculous com- parison as nearly as I can: Take the case of wheat. It is possible for it to be put up in 4-pound packages, and every particle of that carload of wheat could be carried by mail if it was put up in 4-pound packages; or, if the law was changed to an 11-pound limit, if it was put up in 11-pound packages. Mr. Williams. Yes. The Chairman. So it is also true that the Saturday Evening Post, which is shipped in carload lots, could be put up in the packages that are required by the law. But as a matter of fact, it is not put up in the packages that are required by law; neither is the wheat put up in the packages that womd be required by law if it was carried by mail; but both may be placed in position where they would be carried by mail. Mr. Williams. You are right and you are wrong in saying that the Saturday Evening Post or any other big publication is not put in packages, because the express companies will not receive them unless they are tied in some sort of bundles. The Chairman. Oh, they are tied in great, big bundles. Mr. Williams. They are tied in great, big bundles, and those bun- dles would go in a bag, too, if the Government wanted to put a ba,g on them; but there is no necessity for that. One hundred pounds is about the average size, we will say, of the Saturday Evening Post bundles, because they have to be handled; men have to handle them, and you have to put them in packages in order to handle them. The Chairman. But right there, they are not put up in a mailable package. Mr. Williams. Certainly they are put up in a mailable package. The Chairman. The bundles that go into the cars, and are shipped to Chicago or St. Louis, are not put up in such shape that the Govern- ment would accept them for mailing purposes. Mr. Williams. They certainly are. Mr. Gardner. Just leave the Saturday Evening Post or other printed matter, if you please. I want to see if it is possible to take over a monopoly. Take a watch. A watch is mailable. Mr. Williams. Certainly. 208 PARCELS POST. Mr. Gakdner. Can you take over a monopoly of carrying watches by mail ? Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. . j. , i_ n Mr. Gardner. You must require a certain packmg of thembefore they come within the regulations. If it is entirely optional with the seller of watches whether he packs them in that way or not, where is your monopoly ? Mr. Williams. The gentlemen who wrote the law, perhaps before you came to Congress, provided for that; because they said that mailable matter might be sent in other ways than ia the maUs, pro- vided you put the requisite amount of postage stamps on it, and duly canceled them. So if you do not want to trust your watch to the mails, and put it in the hands of an express company, and put the requisite amount of postage on it, and cancel it, the Government gets its revenue, and its monopoly is protected. Mr. Gardner. But that does not touch the question. It may be a fact that the taxing power could be exercised to tax the transportar tion of watches; but what I want to get at is the parcels post arrange- ment. Mr. Castleberg, we will say, wants to send 500 watches to Chicago. You undertake to have a monopoly id the mails Mr. Williams. Of matter up to 11 pounds. Mr. Gardner. Yes, up to 11 pounds; and you prescribe your regula- tions. He says: "I will not pay the postage on these watches; I will put them in a safe, for that matter, and snip them to Chicago by freight." Mr. Williams. All right. Mr. Gardner. By what method are you going to enforce your monopoly ? Mr. Williams. You can not and will not, and do not want to. Mr. Gardner. Then there is none. Mr. Williams. Oh, no. Mr. Gardner. Then do not let us talk about it, if there is nothing to it. Mr. Williams. There is something to it; because you know very well that in the case you have stated the matter would be beyond the weight limit, and of course you have said you do not want it. Mr. Gardner. But the watches could be put in separate packages. The Chairman. Then, as I understand you, all that is necessary to avoid the monopoly is to simply put the matter up ia packages of a weight beyond 4 pounds ? Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Or, if you change the limit to 11 pounds, above 11 Eounds; or to put it in such condition that it would not be accepted y the Government for carriage as mail ? Mr. Williams. That is very true. The Chairman. Either one of those things. Then, as a practical proposition, it is very easy to overcome the monopoly ? Mr. Williams. No; I think not. The Chairman. Unless you have just a single package that you want to send, and that single package does not weigh more than 11 pounds. Mr. Williams. Certainly, and that is all you are looking after. That is all the Government wants. PAECELS POST. 209 The Chairman. Then you have no concern except to control the single package ? Mr. Williams. Certainly not; because the weight limit is 11 pounds, and any package of 11 pounds would be smaller than 11 pounds if separated into more than one package. The Chairman. I am talking about the question of monopoly — how far you carry the monopoly, and what it means in effect. As I understand you, if a man had 100 pounds that he wanted to ship, of any kind of matter that might be mailable, he could divide it up so as to have 10 packages and he could send it under the provisions of this bill. Mr. Williams. Certainly; only if he transported it over a post road, under the provisions of this bill, it would have to go in the mails if it was mailable. The Chairman. But all he has got to do to avoid the monopoly is simply to put them together ? Mi. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. And then the package would weigh more than 11 pounds. Mr. Williams. You refer to sending a number of packages to different addresses ? The Chairman. No, no; I do not mean that. Mr. Williams. Those would be mailable. They are going to different people. That would be transactiag a mail business. That would be unlawfully getting around it. The Chairman. I was trying to get at this: Suppose you purchase from me 100 pounds of things of some kind which are mailable if shipped in packages. I can put those things into 10 packages and ship them, or I can put them in one package, and then I can send them by express, or in any way I please, and it avoids the monopoly. Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. The monopoly would only be to the extent of a single package that weighed less than 1 1 pounds ? Mr. Williams. Certainly; because it would not be mailable above that. That is the point about it. Mr. Gardner. Then the condition would still exist, if you go back to Mr. Castelberg and his watches, that those he wanted to send to San Francisco he could pack so that they would be mailable matter and give them to the mail; and those that he wanted to send to Philadelphia he could send over by express ? Mr. Williams. No. Mr. Gardner. And your monopoly is avoided ? Mr. Williams. No; because the provisions of this bill fix such a rate that Jie would even want to send his stuff by mail to Philadelphia, if it was within 50 miles. The Chairman. It seems ta me, though, that you have not caught the force of Mr. Gardner's statement. Take the 100 pounds I was speaking of: You want to ship that 100 pounds from Washington, D. C, to San Francisco, Cal. You can send it by mail very much cheaper if you divide it up into ten packages and send it in that way. You do so, and you send it to San Francisco by mail. You have another hundred pounds of the same kind that you ship to me at Baltunore, Md. You can ship it to Baltimore, Md., very much 3110-11 14 210 PARCELS POST, cheaper by express. Therefore you simply put it in one package and send it by express. You get around the monopoly proposition by saying in one instance that the package is too large to go into the mails, and in the other instance you take advantage of the law and get the benefit of it by breaking the package into 10 different parts and sending it in that way to San Francisco. Mr. WiixiAMS. Of course, you can find examples of different things that you could handle in that way. But the bulk of such packages as are designed to be reached by these bills could not be so handled; Mr. Gardner. There could be a tax appUed to the transportation of those things which would bring them to the mails, could there not ? Take the case of things made mailable, but which would not be mail- able unless the owner voluntarily saw fit to pack them so as to come within the regulations. Have you thought as to the supplementary power of imposing a tax upon their transportation that would force them into the mails ? Mr. Williams. I doubt the practicability of it. Mr. Gregg. Do I understand that the postage rates mentioned in either the Howard bill or the Sulzer bill would give the mails a mo- nopoly of packages or packets up to the weight that you have men- tioned — 11 pounds? Is that it? Mr. Williams. All mailable packages passing over post roads or between points and places between which the mail is regularly carried — that is correct. Mr. Gregg. Whether it is a short haul or a long one ? Mr. Williams. Whether it is a short haul or a long one. Here is that second-class mail proposition, in reference to the Saturday Evening Post or any other pubhcation. The Chairman. That is hardly a fair illustration; but I was aiming to make one as ridiculous as possible. Mr. Williams. It is not an unfair illustration, Mr. Chairman; because if you will go to the express office or to the post office out in CaUfornia, you will find the Saturday Evening Posts arriving there in just the kind of packages you mention — about 100 pounds in weight. In California they arrive by mail. In New York or Buffalo or Washington they arrive by express. That is done because the express companies quote a rate that is less than the postage rate upon those shipments. If you subscribe for the Saturday Evening Post — a single subscription, to be delivered at your house — the Sat- urday Evening Post folks will kindly give that to Uncle Sam to be delivered. Wlien they have a bulk shipment coming to Washington, however, they give it to the express companies. That also applies, of course, to newspapers and to all kinds of publications. The third section of these bills has a very pertinent relation to a solution of the second-class mail-matter question, about which there has been a great deal of noise and very few facts in the proper acceptation — that is, there has been more discussion of nonessen- tials than of essentials. At the outset of this feature of the discussion it is proper to say that there is one big publisher — and so far as I know, or so far as my investigations have gone for a number of years, only one big publisher — who in the pubhcation of his magazines is absolutely fair to the United States Government; and that is Frank A. Munsey. PAKCBLS POST. 211 Mr. Munsey sends all of his magazines by; mail, both the short and the long hauls, to the best of my information. The Chairman. You do not intend, by saying "unfair to the Gov- ernment," to convey the idea that they are doing anything improper as business men in sending by express ? Mr. Williams. I do not; no. The Chairman. In view of the construction of the word "packet" that has been made heretofore ? Mr. Williams. Certainly. Mr. Gardner. Could we not be more certain of our ground if we kept away from printed matter and those things that might come within the constitutional protection of the press ? Mr. Williams. I do not know whether I quite follow you or not. Mr. Gardner. The Constitution provides that the freedom of the press shall not be interfered with. Mr. Williams. I know the provision; certainly. Mr. Gardner. You take it that that does not reach into the obh- gation of the Government to handle such pubhcations by mail — that they may be treated as merchandise ? Mr. Williams. I do not; they may exclude them or they may accept them. Mr. Gardner. The same as any other merchandise ? Mr. Williams. The same as any other matter. The Chairman. The "freedom of the press" has reference to what appears within the press — the subject matter. Mr. Williams. Yes; certainly — not to its circulation. Mr. Gregg. Before we drop this matter of the Saturday Evening Post I wiU ask you this question; I have forgotten about it: What is the amount of the annual subscription to the Saturday Evening Post; do you know? Mr. Williams. They claim one million and three-quarters circu- lation. Mr. Gregg. No, no; I mean the price? Mr. Williams. The price is $1.50. Mr. Gregg. I believe they sell them to the news agencies at 3 cents apiece, do they not ? Mr. Williams. I beheve so. Mr. Gregg. We pay on the streets, to the boys, 5 cents apiece? Mr. Williams. Yes. That would be at the rate of $2.50 a year, or. something like that. Mr. Gregg. They do use the United States mails for the purpose of mailing the Saturday Evening Post to their annual subscribers, do they not ? Mr. Williams. They do; and it was stated in some of their edi- torials — I think that was stated about a year ago, however — that within the past year they had withdrawn from the mails something more than a quarter of a million of their circulation. The Chairman. The Saturday Evening Post is sent by express to all the centers up to St. Louis and Chicago. Mr. Gardner. By freight, is it not? The Chairman. By express. Mr. Williams. By express. They have not the time to use freight. They may use freight for the purpose of handling the Ladies' Home Journal. 212 PAB.OELS POST. The Chairman. They use freight for handling some of the publi- cations that are delivered in Washington, accordiag to the statement they made. They are started out at the same time that the publi- cation is started to the extreme West. Mr. Williams. Yes. The Chaieman. It is a remarkable thing about the distribution of the Saturday Evening Post and the Ladies' Home Journal Mr. Williams. And other great publications. The Chairman (continuing) . That they are delivered in San Fran- cisco to the consumer, the reader, oh exactly the same day that they are delivered in Washington. Mr. Williams. And to every country. Mr. Mays. Mr. Williams, you are a lawyer, I believe. Have you not found throughout your life that every law that is made, espe- cially a new law, can almost always be evaded in some instance, at some time, until there is more experience enabling you to stop those practices ? Mr. Williams. That quite often occurs with a new law; but you have not got a new one here. Mr. Mays. But I say, would not that apply in making this law ? Mr. Williams. In making it, enacting it, you would not be enacti ing new law — not a particle of new law; no part of it can be counted as new law. The only thing it does is to change the rate and increase the weight limit. The Chairman. And fix the zone. Mr. Williams. And fix the zone. That is absolutely the only thing it changes. The Chairman. I beg your pardon; the fixing of the zone would be new. Mr. Williams. I said, and you said, Mr. Chairman, "the fixing of the zone, the changing of the rate, and the increase in the weight limit." The Chairman. No ; what I said was this : There is no change of principle involved in the change of rate, but there is a change of principle involved in the fixing of the zone. Mr. Williams. And the zone only applies to fourth-class mail matter, which, as I observed earlier in the argument, is not entitled to the same consideration as other classes of mail matter. The Chairman. I understand ; but in answer to Mr. Mays's question, that is new. Mr. Williams. That would be new. The Chairman. That is a new principle as applied to the mail. Mr. Mays. What I want to get at is this : Any new law that we may make is hardly expected to be perfect in its first enactment.. Mr. Williams. That is very true; but the situation here, as applied to the bUls in hand, is that they are not new laws. I do not tWk they can be properly considered as new laws, because the only new thing about these bills is the proposition of a zone, and that is easily determined; and I take it the administration of it would always follow the post-route maps, of which every post office has one. Mr. Mays. If it is not a new law or a new practice, if there is not something new about it, why should we be asked to make another law regarding the matter ? PABOBLS POST. 213 Mr. Williams. For the reason set out in the caption of the bill — "to reduce postal rates, improve the postal service, and to increase postal revenue." There are your reasons. Mr. Gregg. Would that transfer these periodicals, etc., to fourth- class matter 1 Mr. Williams. It would not. If it did, you would only get 4 pounds of them out of the carloads that go from New York to Boston and from New York to Buffalo by express, at from half to three-quar- ters of a cent a pound. I will show you in just a moment why I want it. The Chairman. The provisions of this bill do not at aU change the question of monopoly, to which he refers, and would in no way affect second-class matter; would they? Mr. Williams. The bill does correct and make plain the propo- sition of monopoly and does affect second-class matter. The Chairman. You mean it affects it in the last section of the biU? Mr. Williams. The third section. The Chairman. The third section of the biU ? Mr. Williams. The third section of the bill. The explanation of the word ' 'packet, ' ' defining it ia the law, affects vitally and completely the question of second-class matter, and completely settles the question, and puts it at rest for all time — at least, until the Post Office Department, the Congress, and the people of the country have more complete information as to whether they want rates increased. It does not do a single sohtary thing to the propo- sition except to add about $2,250,000 to the postal revenues at practically no cost whatever. I will tell you how I arrive at those figures. That is simply the additional revenue from daily papers — not magazines, which cer- tainly win add an amount equal to at least that much more. Taking the figures of people posted upon the pubhcation of daily newspapers, they approximate 75,000,000 copies per day. Forty million of these would properly fall within the administration of this bill, because the law already excepts those that are carried by special messenger employed for that service — in other words, the circulation around the city by newsboys. That is not covered by existing statutes, nor would it be covered by these. It is those that go out on the post toads, now carried by express, that it would affect; and the circulation of those is approximately estimated at 40,000,000 copies. In the case of the average city newspaper, about four of them would weigh a pound. At 1 cent per pound, that makes 16,250 per day, or $2,281,250 per ySar. Then just throw away a few thou- sand dollars and it brmgs it down to $2,250,000 of revenue lost to the Post Office Department from having express company compe- tition with the post office in the carriage of big city newspapers. Even taking the highest rate, the papers would save $1,125,000 a year. The Chairman. How is that ? Mr. Williams. Taking the highest express rate, which is a half a cent a pound — and in many instances they pay down to a quarter of a cent — the papers save half of that, you see — ^half of that 82,250,000. In other words, the Government now loses on. big daily 214 PAHCEILS POST. newspapers $2,250,000 a year; or, in other words, $2,250,000 a year is divided between the express companies and the news{)apers, and our Uncle Samuel still carries the long-haul smgle copies of that stuff, and of course it costs him 9 cents a pound. It is a wonder that 'it does not cost him 19. Mr. Howard. Mr. Williams, have you made any calculation on magazine carriage ? Mr. Williams. No; I have not made any calculations on maga- zine carriage, but I think it would at least double that. In other words, I shoyld say that even the newspapers and magazines now unlawfully carried (under a proper interpretation of the postal laws) involve at least $15,000 a day of postal revenues — say $18,000 a day. The Chairman. Your theory is that the Government loses, m round numbers, say $5,000,000 a year on account of magazmes and periodicals and newspapers ? Mr. Williams. No, no; on newspapers, in round numbers. $2,250,000. The Chairman. I was taking it all together. Mr. Williams. Yes. The Chairman. You would say that on magazines, periodicals, and newspapers the Government probably loses a revenue of $5,000,000 a year ? Mr. Williams. Undoubtedly. The Chairman. How much does it gain by not carrying those publications ? Have you any estimate on that ? Mr. Williams. Perhaps $50,000. The Chairman. In other words, you think it would not cost the Government more than $50,000 to carry those publications ? Mr. Williams. It might cost a little bit more, but it would not go beyond $100,000, in my judgment. The Chairman. Have you figured out that side of the matter very carefully ? Mr. Williams. In my judgment it would not, for the reason that it would simply fill up the maifcars ; and that is the way to take up the slack in the postal service — ^fill your mail cars on those short hauls, For example, I was in Buffalo not very long ago on a Sunday morning, and there came in a New York Central tram at about 7.30 o'clock Sunday morning. There was a mail car in the train, and, of course, the big end of its work was handling first-class mail — a raft of work. There was a small bundle of sacks, perhaps a dozen, of New York Sunday morning newspapers that left New York the night before. Right behind that car was an express car stacked to the roof with New York Sunday morning ne-wspapers, and there was not a clerk about it. The Chairman. Let me see if I understand what you would do. Would you take the New York newspapers and have them delivered at the New York post office ? Mr. Williams. No, no; they do not do that now. The Chairman. I know; they are carried by express now Mr. Williams. They are carried to the car. The Chairman. Under the law you are expected to deliver them to the post office, are you not ? PAKCELS POST. 215 get his papers out. He would take them to the car. Not only that, hut he routes them in his own ofl&ce, and puts them in the bags, and distributes them. The Chaieman. That is all true. Mr. Williams. And he takes them into the car; and that is one reason why he is entitled to a low rate. The Chairman. Do you expect him to continue this if he deals with the Government ? Mr. Williams. Why, certainly; he does that now. The Chairman. I know; but he is getting an extraordinary rate because he does it. He does that, and after he turns the papers over to the express company the express company has nothing to do at all wth reference to them except to take the car and transport it to the place to which the papers are to be delivered. Mr. Williams. And neither would the United States Government. The Chairman. But thus, far they do. The Government takes charge of everything; the Government handles everything; the Gov- ernment controls everything. As I understand the law, it would be expected that the newspapers would be dehvered, under the present regulations, at the post offices, and there the New York post office would take charge of them and send them out. They would send them to Philade^hia, Boston, New York, or wherever they might ?o, and at that office they would go out through the regular channels, understand that as a matter of practice in some instances Mr. Williams. Practically all instances. The Chairman (continuing). The newspapers now are actually placed in the car; but they do that for their own protection and in order to expedite the transmission of them ? Mr. WiLLLAMS. Certainly. The Chairman. There is no provision of law for that being done ? Mr. Williams. There might not be any provision of law requiring it to be done, but there is a provision of law which meets the situa- tion, made at the request of the newspapers before they connected up with the express companies, providing for the carriage of news- papers by outside mail, and they are dumped off by the bundles where they go to the newsboys at the different stations. The Chairman. The practical proposition, then, would be this: You would have a clerk of the post office, or a number of clerks of the post office, in every one of these great newspaper offices to see that the mail was properly weighed ? Mr. Williams. There is one there now. • The Chairman. There is one there, but it would require many more? Mr. Williams. It might require some more; I do not know. The Chairman. To see that it is properly weighed and properly handled and controlled by the Government. In other words, if it is taken as a mail proposition, would you not take it practically in the office of the newspaper ? Mr. Williams. Gertamly; just as it is handled now, the portion of it that goes by mail. Take the New York World, for instance. There is a post-office clerk that goes on duty there at a certain hour. Perhaps he may be on duty there all the time. I expect there is a clerk on duty at the New York World all the time. Those bags of mail, the little portion of the New York World that goes by mail 216 PARCELS POST. (which I believe Mr. Seitz said was about 3 per cent), is routed, thrown into the proper sacks, tossed down a chute, and falls on a scale. The clerk there takes its weight and enters it in a book, and that is aU he does with it. The Chairman. At the present time, with only this 3 per cent going by mail, you have two or tliree clerks in the office of every one of these papers. If the Government did it all you would have a number of clerks in these same newspaper offices to do that work and do aU this routing ? Mr. Williams. No; because the clerk has to be there now, anyway, and he is doing practically nothing. The Chairman. Yes ; but he would have an immense amount to do if he did it all. Mr. Williams. Oh, certainly; that is very true. But if there is a bag of mail going out every hour, that means that there is a clerk there all the time, and he might just as weU be superintending the weighing of 1,000 bags of mail as one. The Chairman. He would superintend it, but somebody has to do that weighing, and that somebody must be a Government employee. Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. And he must be paid by the Government? Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. In other words, this is true: If the Government does it, the Government wUl handle it and control it. It must be in charge of it. Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. It is in absolute control of it ? Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. All that handling and all that superintendence and all that management, whatever it is, must be paid for by the United States Government ? Mr. Williams. Certainly. Mr. Gregg. Does not the express company do that weighing, too ? The Chairman. No, sir. Mr. Williams. The express company has a man at the newspaper office doing that weighing. The Chairman. They accept the weight of the newspapers. Mr. Howard. If you will allow me, Mr. Chairman, I win state that I have made a special investigation of that matter. The express com- pany has its man there, and the Government has its man there. In the Atlanta station I know it is true, because Mr. Bell will remember that we had a scandal down there about this weighing matter. The. Government has one man there during the weighing period, and the express company has another. The small packages are weighed by the Government employee, and the large ones are weighed by the express employee. ' They are both there on duty at the same time. That is the practice now in Atlanta. Mr. Williams. I so understood— that the express companies did not accept the weight of the newspapers, but that they had an employee there weighmg the output of the newspaper plant. Undoubtedly, as stated, the magazines would about double the loss on newspapers. Mr. Gregg. Let me understand that. I can not understand this. Mr. Williams. Oh, yes, you can. PARCELS POST. 217 Mr. Gregg. I understand you ; but, I mean, you have not made it clear to my mind. Under what class would you carry these news- papers which you are speaking of now, in these .great bulks? Mr. Williams. The same class in which they pass now. Mr. Gregg. What class is that ? Mr. Williams. Second class. Mr. Gregg. Second class ? Mr. Williams. And that is what these figures have been based upon. In other words, the large volume of business which the express companies and railroads think so much of that they are hauUng it at a quarter to a half a cent a pound, is getting away from the Govern- ment, where the rate is a cent. Mr. Gardner. In your illustration, you had the car on the track, packed with Sunday papers. It is there packed. It has to go somewhere. Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. Mr- Gardner. Do you know the comparative cost to the papers of that transportation, depending upon whether the car goes as a mail car or as it does go 1 Mr. Williams. You mean from New York, say, to Buffalo. Mr. Gardner. Wherever it is going; just follow that particular car. Mr. Williams. I wiU say that the car is in Buffalo and the mail goes out on the trolley lines and other railroad lines, perhaps, running out from there. Mr. Gardner. Wherever it goes, what would be the difference in the cost to the publishers of the paper, depending upon whether it goes as now or whether it goes as second-class matter ? Mr. Williams. The difference in cost to whom? Mr. Gardner. To the publisher of the paper? Mr. Williams. The difference iq the cost is simply this: Take the proposition to deUver it anywhere Mr. Gardner. But I am talking about that particular car. Mr. Williams. The shipment is absorbed by the express company and the charges are fixed at the office for delivery to wherever its des- tination may be. Mr. Gardner. Do you know what they are ? Mr. Williams. Those rates are set forth in this Interstate Com- merce Commission report, on page 14. Mr. Gardner. Are they higher or lower than the mail rate ? Mr. Williams. Lower. They run from a quarter to a half a cent a pound. The mail rate is a cent. Mr. Gardner. Then if the Government took over that transporta- tion, one of two things must happen: Either the rate for the short haul must be lowered, or the papers must pay more for the trans- portation than they are paying now. Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. At the present time it costs over 2 cents a pound to carry every pound of mail matter that is carried on a railr yf&j train. How are you going to get rid of that 2 cents a pound ? _ Mr. Williams. There is a good deal of that absorbed in the propo- sition of empty mail cars. The Chairman. I am talking about the 2 cents a pound. Mr. Williams. I say, there is a good deal of it absorbed in the proposition of empty mail cars. 218 PAKCELS POST. The Chaibman. You would get rid of some of it in empty mail cars ? Mr. Williams. There is no question in the world about that. The Chairman. How much ? Have you any idea ? Mr. Williams. I do not know. Nobody can teU. I do not think there is anybody that can tell. The Chairman. What else would you get rid of it in ? Mr. Williams. In the volume of business handled by the respective clerks and cars. The Chairman. You mean that proportionately to the amount of maU handled you would not need as many clerks ? Mr. Williams. Certaiidy not. The Chairman. But you would need clerks ? Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. And you would need more clerks ? Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. Then you have not taken that matter into the account ? You do not thmk this $50,000 would provide even for the clerks, do you ? You suggested that $50,000 would be the outlay on account of that $5,000,000. Would that pay for the clerks ? Mr. Williams. That is very hard to say, but I do not think it would. I think certainly it might run more than $100,000. But grant that it ran to $1,000,000— you have picked up $4,000,000. The Chairman. The cost of transportation at 2 cents a pound would cover all of that profit, and more, too. Mr. Williams. That, of course, would seem so; and when the re- sults work out you may have to consider the question of readjustment either of the rate or of mail pay. The Chairman. Here is the point I want to get at: You stated awhile ago, and did not controvert the proposition, that it costs at the present time 9 cents a pound for handling the mail. Mr. Williams. For nandling second-class mail — that portion of it. The Chairman. Wait a minute; perhaps I misunderstood you. Mr. Williams. That portion of second-class mail which is handled by the Post OflB.ce Department. The Chairman. It costs 9 cents a pound ? Mr. Williams. Those are the Department's figures. I have no ia- formation, and I do not think anybody else has, that justifies me in questioning it. The Chairman. Do you think it would be possible to reduce that expense to one-half cent a pound ? Mr. Williams. No. The Chairman. Do you think it is possible to reduce it to 1 cent a pound ? Mr. Williams. I doubt it. The Chairman. Nor to 3 cents a pound? Mr. Williams. You are getting into debatable ground there, undoubtedly. The Chairman. Say 3 cents a povmd. Then the 3 cents a pound would be a good deal more than you have received from the indi- viduals sending it. Mr. Williams. That is very true. The Chairman. You only receive 1 cent a pound. Mr. Williams. That is very true. PARCELS POST, 219 The Chairman. In other words, on every pound of mail matter, accordmg to that proposition, you would have lost 2 cents a pound. Mr. Williams. That is one of those things that is apparently so, and yet is not so. The Chairman. There is nothing apparent about that except the fact, is there ? Mr. Williams. Because all the time the cost is in a decreasing ratio. The Chairman. Wait a minute; let us understand about this. We have dropped from the average cost of 9 cents to 3 cents on this cheaper method of transportation. Mr. Williams. Certainly; and when you count it in pounds, of course that seems trUe; but when you count it in revenue, you have added this much revenue at only a fractional portion of the cost. The Chairman. The mail is carried according to its weight, and the compensation of the postmaster is based upon the receipts of the office. Mr. Williams. The receipts of his office, etc.; certainly. The Chairman. Sa that there is expense all along the line based upon the amount of business. Mr. Williams. That is very true. But here is the point: No mat- ter whether the error is in the amount of railroad pay, or whether it is in the matter of too much cost at some place, or where it is, there is that much business that is getting away from the department which the other fellow wants at a less rate than the Government would receive. The Chairman. Mr. Williams, I think this digression is hardly fair to the discussion on fourth-class matter; and I do not think it would be fair for us to leave the impression, which would appear from the record thus far, that this would apply to fourth-class matter at all. Mr. Williams. It would not, of course. The Chairman. Because at the present rate the more you increase the amount of fourth-class matter, the more you increase the revenues of the Government. Mr. Williams. Yes; the more you increase the revenues of the Gov- ernment. But the experience of the administration in regard to fourth-class matter has been confined to the small packages, weighing approximately a third of a pound — I believe a trifle over 5 ounces — and undoubtedly it has been on the very long hauls as well; and yet the Government made $2,000,000 on that matter, according to the division of these things. Mr. Gardner. Does not that work just the other way? Why should the smaU packages get the long haul ? Mr. Williams. The smafl packages would not; the large packages would, because the express companies would charge you 15 cents anyhow. Mr. Gardner. The small packages are the ones where the Govern- ment wins on the fractions ? Mr. Williams. Yes. (The committee thereupon took a recess until 2.30 o'clock p. m. of the same day.) 220 PABOELS POST. AFTEE RECESS. The committee met at 2.30 o'clock p. m., pursuant to the taking of recess. The Chairman. You may go ahead, Mr. Wilhams. STATEMENT OF ME. NATHAN B. WILLIAMS— Continued. Mr. Williams. I wish the committee to clearly understand, and the record to clearly show, that my reference this morning to bill H. E. 8386 was not intended, and should not be understood, as a criticism of bill 9844, but that, for simphcity in the presentation of the argument, it was more convenient to use one than the other. The truth of the matter is that the rate of one-half cent an ounce, or a cent for each 2 ounces or fraction thereof and a rate of a cent an ounce up to 8 ounces, on an inspection of the weight, as you chmb up, you will note that the amount makes practically no difference at all. In other words, the 11-pound package under biU No. 9844 is 88 cents and under bill 8386 it is 92 cents. In discussing the effect of this bill upon matter of the second class, it is proper to observe that the use made by the large magazines of the country of express companies is not mainly on account of lower rates quoted by the express companies to such magazines. The rate of the express companies on magazines is a cent a pound, and the use of magazines has very largely developed from the manner in which the magazines distribute their publications through the agency of the news companies. But there is no reason why, as in the case of the pubhshers cited this morning, those shipments might not just as well go in the United States mails and be dehvered and pay the revenue to the Post Office for all their bulky packages as well as the others. Here is an instance which is entitled to go into this record. In Arkansas, May, 1910, was the period for weighing the mails in that section of the country. The committee and the pubUc are acquainted with the fact that they weigh mails once in each four years in about four divisions of the country. During the period in which the mails were being weighed in that section the shipments of magazines to the news dealers were tossed into the mail bags and carried by mail. The Chairman. May I inquire how you know that fact ? Mr. Williams. I saw it. I also know it from the statements of news dealers in that particular section. As soon as the 90-day mail-weighing period was over, Mr. News Dealer's magazines came by express again, as they had been coming before the mail-weighing period was begun. The Chairman. Did you investigate it personally to find out whether that was true or not ? Mr. Williams. I did, and found it to be correct. The Chairman. At what place did that occur? Mr. Williams. I ascertained that this occurred at Fayetteville, Ark., and at Fort Smith, Ark., during that period. The news dealer at Fayetteville, Ark., during that period had to go down and carry up his big bundles of Saturday Evening Posts and other magazines from the post office, half a block away. The carrier did not bring them up to him, and the express company always dehvered them at his door. PABCELS POST. 221 The Chairman. Do you know, by indirection, of any other towns in Arkansas where investigation was made, and where the fact was known, outside of the postal employees? Mr. Williams. I saw a statement about the same time with ref- erence to Jonesboro, Ark., which is over on the Iron Mountain. It was contained in a short item printed in the Arkansas Gazette about the same time, as I now recall it. I believe those are the only in- stances I am able to give. The Chaieman-. Have you sought to get further information on that subject? Mr. Williams. I have not. The Chairman-. To this committee that is an exceedingly impor- tant matter. Mr. Williams. I realize that, and reahzed that they were entitled to the information. The Chairman. We have been trying for years to get at the truth of the charge as to whether the mails were padded during the weighing period. Mr. Williams. The name of the news dealer at Fayetteville is A. J. Mitchell, a very reputable and very excellent man. The Chairman. Have you any idea as to how many Saturday Evening Posts are delivered to that news dealer; I mean how many copies of that pubhcation ? Mr. Williams. There is a special dealer in Saturday Evening Posts there, who not only supphes this news dealer I have mentioned, but who supplies a number of boys who go out with small bags containing 8 or 10. I beheve, however, before they will give a distribution agent a contract he must undertake to sell 400 copies a week in a town of that size. Fayetteville is a town of approximately five or six thou- sand people, and this special dealer supphes these Saturday Evening Posts to the dealer uptown. The young man who has the agency for Saturday Evening Posts covering Fayetteville hves down near the depot, where Ms father's place of business is, and the regular news dealer who handles everything is uptown, and the young man down at the depot supplies the man uptown. That is as I under- stand it, speaking of the Saturday Evening Post. I do not under- stand that that applies to the Ladies' Home Journal, because I under- stand those are sent direct to the dealer regularly. The apparent effect of those shipments, of course, was to increase the compensation to the railroads, and as the express companies own the railroad stocks they gave consent to that much being diverted during that particular period. The Chairman. The effect of that would be that during four years they would receive compensation for carrying that which went through the mail during that period ? Mr. Williams. During that period; yes, sir. I have no doubt that complete investigation of that subject will show that it is a common practice. There are too many instances of it, and it fits the situation too exact, and it quit so suddenly that it must have been premeditated and not simply an accidental situation. Besides the train that brings the express to Fayetteville Ark., from St. Louis — and that is the distribution point for the publications by the news agency — is a train that brings mail, known as No. 5 of the Frisco, leaving St. Louis every night and arriving at Fayetteville the 222 PARCELS POST. next morning. There is also a noon train that leaves in the early morning out of St. Louis and which brings the morning papers from St. Louis. There are some observations on the subject of "The press and post ofBce " in an article of mine which appeared in print in The Fra maga- zine, pubhshed at East Aurora, N. Y., in the issue of March, 1911. I shall read a few paragraphs from that article, which I consider jas really pertinent to the presentation of this argument: Great American magazines announce lofty and ambitious aims for the public good. Such as: "We believe that the present chief political task in this country is to uproot entirely the privilege system — No favored class and no favored man should be our aim"; and "The public interest before private gain." Yet the publications which announce these praiseworthy objects are violators of the law, favorites of the privilege which they condemn. These and most other publications-ygreat newspapers and magazines — unlawfully send out a large portion of their editions by express at an express rate of one-half cent per pound, while the mail rate is 1 cent per pound. That must be qualified, as I do here now, in that the rate on maga- zines is usually a cent a pound, so that the lower rate mainly appues to papers. They give the shipment to the outlawed competitor of the postal service on the short hauls, while the long, unprofitable hauls they consign to the tender care of the mails, and the mail car runs light at the same pay. This has been going on for 40 years or more, and all this time it has been against the law. These iinlawful practices have cost the people of this country more than a biUion dollars; and are now costing the whole people more than $50,000 everyday. The press does not get all of this. A large part of it is to be charged to unlawful carriage of third and fourth class mail matter. Only a portion is to be charged to second-class mail matter, but quite a large sum is daily divided between express companies and the great papers and magazines of the country — Now, right there, I want to make some pertiaent observations with reference to the statement I make in that article, that this compe- tition which has been permitted, perhaps unwittingly, in favor of the express companies against the Post Office Department, has cost the people of this country an enormous sum. In 1844 it was said by the postmasters in New York and Philadelphia and in Buffalo, and I believe in Boston, that the operation of private express, then only 8 years old, was costing at least one-third of the postal revenue of the country, that they were depleting and cutting down the incomes of the post office to the extent of at least one-third of its revenues. Now, 67 years later, the revenues of the Post Office Department have reached the gigantic total of $225,000,000 a year. At that time, the express companies only covered a few of the main routes, a very few, because there were very few railroads, and the express companies did not operate except over such fines of railroad as were in existence at that time. Even at that time, where there were only a few populous cities, there was quite a population served by the old stagecoach, and it seems to be reasonable to conclude that at this time such competition is costing the Government in loss of revenue at least one-eighth of its revenues. If so, you have more than $30,000,000 a year, and $30,000,000 a year is a whole lot— more than $60,000 a day. So I cut again, you see, when I make a state- ment of $50,000 a day. The references that I have made to the opinions of the postmasters back in 1844 are to be found in the post-of&ce reports of those years, which reports are a matter of pubfic record. paeceijS post. 223 I say further in this article: No increase of postage rates is necessary or expedient. Merely enforce the law. This will bring about a substantial increase in the amount of postage which the great magazines and newspapers pay, and at slight additional cost to the postal service. The law is fair to all, both great and small, and none should be permitted to be above the law. Let US make some observations upon that. It is the great papers of the country, the big ones, the big metrOT)ohtan papers, that are profiting by the use of express companies. The papers in the smaller cities, the httle country vsreeldies, the papers of the moderate-sized towns, and the inagaziaes of small circulation that do not use the American News Co. and other news companies, are using methods of distribution other than the express companies, and those are the publications that, of necessity, have no news-stand circulation. They must use the maUs exclusively and pay 1 cent a pound for their output. Is it fair to the paper in the small village that is paying 1 cent a pound for its postage to permit the big metropolitan daily to get its papers through at a low cost, which enables them to increase the attractiveness of their paper or make other improvements which go against the development of this more secluded paper? I say our papers and all pubhcations should be equal before the law, and that the same rate ought to be apphed to aU, whether large or small. And right there is another observation. At one time it undoubtedly was a proper and reasonable provision that the law should give pa,pers free circulation iu the county of their publication, where there is no dehvery service. You will remember it was restricted to that — ^that is, if he did not use the mails in delivery in the local town. The Chairman. City delivery ? Mr. Williams. Yes; free city dehvery. With the development of the rural mail service and with the increased demand for newspapers and other printed matter which that service has brought about, it seems to me that that free circu- lation in the county should be eliminated. I do not regard it as a reasonable partof the rights of the losal paper. I do not thiak they are entitled to that gratuity. It is a small thing, and in many instances would amount to practically nothing, but it would amount to some- thing. Besides that, it often has peculiar workiags. If a town is so located that its maia trading portion is located m another county, and this town is near it, then that publisher has to pay postage on the circulation where they are reading his paper, because it is just across the line in another county; while, perhaps, 10 miles up, in the more central portion of the county, that paper on a good portion of its circulation gets through free. The Chairman. But that is an exceptional case. Mr. Williams. That is very true; but that is another trouble in the administration of the postal service. The publisher must bring his circulation out of the county, tied in separate bundles, and it must be weighed; that is, the one bundle must be weighed, but the other one, of course, is not weighed. All of that adds to the trouble of han- dling those publications, not only to thepubhsher himself, but it adds to the trouble of the Post Office Department as well. The Chairman. Does it cost the Government anything to circulate in the county through the rural carries ? 224 PARCELS POST. . Mr. Williams. There is no additional cost on that; but these papers do not all go through the rural carrier. The Chairman. I understand, but as to such as go through the carrier? Mr. Williams. They do not cost anything at aU. That is very true; that is, it does cost, of course, abstractly speaking, but then, it does not add any more to the rural carrier's salary than is now paid him. The Chairman. Nor to the postmaster's salary? Mr. Williams. Nor to the postmaster's salary; but it is also equally true that while this, all over the country, might be a very small amount, at the same time it would be some revenue to ehminate the free circulation in the county. The Chairman. What would you add — 1 cent a pound? Mr. Williams. Yes, sir; just right straight; just cut out that exception. There is a further observation along that line, and that is as to the publisher of the smaller magazine that has no news-stand circulation. He is now having to pay 1 cent a pound upon his publications, while the big competitor, the man with a business sufficiently large to justify the express companies to go after it, is getting away at a less sum, and, in some instances, at least, at a less cost of distribution. I think the smaller publishers should have an equal chance with the large ones. I am going to read a quotation here from a man whom I regard as the most careful student of ionerican conditions, taking into con- sideration the conditions at the time he wrote, and that is Alexander de Tocqueville, of France. In his work on Democracy in America he uses this statement: Nothing but a newspaper can drop the same thought in a thousand minds at the same moment. This terse remark of de TocqueviJle, along with his statement that "the press is the chiefest democratic instrument of freedom," shows with what exactitude the mind of this great philosopher understood American conditions and the duty, responsibihty, and power of a press ahke honest, informed, fearless, and free. Now, it is due to some portions of the American press tp say that since they have learned of this situation they have given it and the effect that the consideration of these bills have upon their business both editorial and news space. Prominent among those is the New York World, whose Mr. John C. Seitz wrote one of the best articles on and one of the best contributions to this subject in the February World's Work entitled "The post office and obstructive monopoly," in which Mr. Seitz quoted the laws to which I have alluded in these discussions, the New York American, the Newark Evening News, San Francisco Star, Chicago Tribune, Indianapolis News, Cincinnati Commercial Tribune, Baltimore Sun, and Troy Budget. There are doubtless others and there doubtless will be more, because I think there is a heavy proportion of the press of this country that is thoroughly honest. There may be a part of the press which is not. I do not know, and only apply the test to their course in the treatment of pubhc questions. I defined in this article an honest press as a press which is fair and will teU the truth even if it does temporarily affect its cash drawer; PABCELS POST. 225 an informed press as a press which takes time and opportunity to learn the truth ; a fearless press as a press which has the courage of a William Goddard and the wisdom of a Ben Franklin to smite outrage and wrong, wherever, whenever, and by whomsoever committed ; a free press as a press which has its relations to the law well defined and es- tablished, and is subject to no unreviewable power of any postal official — that is not liable to be attacked and ruined by an irresponsi- ble hireling, but is beholden only to its ideals and the judgment of duly established courts and the law of the land; or, as was said by Lord Erskine: To be free is to live under a government by law. The liberty of the press consists in printing without any previous license, subject to the consequences of law. Now, I hold no brief for any printing institution on the face of the earth, nor do I hold any brief against any of them. I observed in a paper a couple of days ago The Chairman. Mr. Williams, are you aiming to connect this with parcels post ? Mr. Williams. Yes, sir. I observed in a paper the other day that the Third Assistant Post- master General was telling about the troubles of the department and how they hoped to keep "trashy" — that is the language the paper -gave, at least — trashy publications out of the mails. I am inclined to the belief that the American people are not looking for anybody to say what is a trashy publication. I do not think Congress will at- tempt to define a publication of that kind. By the way, this is connected with parcels post, and this situation is exactlv met in this particular bill that is to give to the Government Post OjSice all of the business, and, as was remarked by a speaker the other day, it is perhaps impossible to determine the particular proportions of the mail, and it is particularly true in relation to second-class mail. It is impossible to determine just what portion of other classes of mail that very second-class mail produces. As I think I made plain, it is entitled to an equal and flat consideration rather than otherwise. Speaking of Mr. Goddard, he is the man who established the first American post office, Mr. Ben Franklin being the first Postmaster General. I sometimes wonder what would have happened in the administration of the postal laws if the redoubtable Benjamin had met up with express competition. This article has two more paragraphs that I want to read: Within the month of October, 1910, one of the best lawyers in the einploy of the General Government, after several months' consideration of this question, wrote the loUowing: "We are not alone concerned about the transportation of ordinary merchandise, but that perhaps the greatest and most harmful competition between express com- panies and the postal department is in respect of newspapers, magazines, pamphlets, and other printed matter which is now carried as merchandise." I think I remarked yesterday that in 1844 the Attorney General filed an opinion to the effect "that the term "packet" included a bundle of newspapers. The opinion (October, 1910) to which I referred says: I do not myself doubt that the word "packet" as so used refers to packages or parcels of merchandise or printed matter. It seems to me that the considerations advanced by Mr. Williams m his brief make this view quite conclusive. 3110—11 15 226 PARCELS POST. In Beach's Magazine of April, 1911, is a quotation from the Glasgow (Scotland) Herald, under date of February 1, 1911, which, I think, indicates what some of the gentlemen who have been talking about this subject mean as to what the farmers and producers are counting on from parcels post. The advertisement is as follows: Paisley flour is made by Brown & Poison and sold in 7d., 3Jd., and Id. packets, with interesting receipts. Another advertisement in the same paper, as I recall it, apphed to fresh mackerel being delivered by post to the breakfast table by the fisherman, who came in some time during the night. This man Beach, whom, by the way, I have never seen, and who publishes bis magazine in Detroit, has been adding some pertinent observations to this subject. After quoting section 181 of the criminal code in the December, 1910, number of his magazine, he says this: The fact that John D. Rockefeller wears a wig or that Andy Carnegie has chin whiskers isn't any plainer than that, is it? That is the law in plain unvarnished black and white, but up to the present writing 1 haven't heard that the kibosh has been put on any of the express companies for violating it, have you? And neither have we heard of any express company refusing to soak a customer 40 cents for carrying a package that the post office might just as well and ought to carry, have we? Now, let us see how foxy these express grafters are. There isn't any profit in hauling small packages over a long distance, so they do not go after this business. If the package weighs under 4 pounds and has a long journey to ma,ke, Uncle Sam gets the job at his low rate, and loses money. But the small bundle for a short jump is the juicy business, so the express companies grab off this work, and, as a consequence, our XJncle works all day gathering the honey and the express companies eat it. In March, 1911, there was reported an amendment in the Senate of the United States to a pending post-office appropriation bill pro- viding $50,000 to investigate the subject of rural parcels post, or parcels post — I do not know whether it was confuied to rural parcels post or not; I am not sure about that. It was one way or the other, either parcels post or rural parcels post. Mr. Beach in May, 1911, has this to say about that: Fifty thousand dollars to investigate parcels post? Forgive me if I seem to snicker; but linger with me for a while and let us see how the game is played. The proposal went out on a point of order raised by Senator Bailey and not long after Senator Gore proposed an amendment describing the word "packet" wherever used in laws relating to the postal service to mean " all matter which is by law made mail- able." This would give the country a real experimental parcels post covering the entire country with a weight limit of 4 pounds, such as is provided for in existing laws, and which laws the express companies are daily violating. Did Senator Penrose favor this? Not on your new phonograph record. He merely wanted to spend $50,000 to investigate parcels posts. He didn't want to try it out. Of course not, for how perfectly silly that would be. The result was that Senator Pen- rose immediately interposed a point of order, and the grafting express companies again breath easy and merrily go on with the holdup. The record of tJiat transaction is to be found in the Congressional Record on March 4, 1911, in about 20 lines. Now, I desire to advance a few considerations in relation to the proposition of the country merchant. He is at all times injected into the consideration of these subjects as if parcels post was going to absolutely smash him and Sears, Roebuck & Co. were to be the only merchants in the country. Nowhere have I heard in these hearings any statement with refer- ence to the fact that John Wanamaker, of Philadelphia, Pa., on Feb- PARCELS POST. 227 ruary 1, 1910, which was the fiftieth anniversary of the estabhshment of his business, he being one of the greatest merchants in America, established the pohoy of assuming all the deUvery charges of articles bought at his store where the price paid for the article was $5 or more within the ordinary average express zone of about 500 miles, or some- thing of that kind. If you buy an article from Mr. Wanamaker's store in Philadelphia or New York, he delivers it and assumes the freight and express charges if you pay him $5 for the article. In other large centers the large merchants offer the inducement of refunding railroad fares. If you are withm 25 miles of St. Louis, the association of merchants there will pay your railroad fare if you buy $25 worth of stuff or they will pay a mile of it if you buy a dollar's worth. The Chairman. They want to do that which will encourage those who Uve 25 miles away to trade more with John Wanamaker than they have done heretofore ? . Mr. Williams. This will not do it, because a mail-order house — — The Chairman. Will this not have the effect of enabling John Wanamaker to deliver his goods cheaper than heretofore ? Mr. Williams. No. How would John Wanamaker deliver a rock- ing chair, or how would he deliver the main portion of it ? There is where this discussion has gotten into the same shape as Mr. McVeagh's opiaion on the proposition of a packet. A mail-order house does simply a certain portion of mail-delivery goods, but the mail order does not include all, and does not mean mail delivery only. It is an infinitesimal portion of the business of this country that is capable of mail dehvery. The lowest rate proposed by any of these bills is 8 cents a pound. That is $8 a hundred, and it is only on articles of extreme necessity or very urgent need or extremely high value which come into the small compass that can bear transportation charges of $8 a hundred. As stated in a report of the Interstate Commerce Commission, about 90 per cent of the express business of this country is done east of Omaha, and the average express charge is $6 a hundred. The folks are complaining even of that. The lowest rate, as I say, pro- posed in these bills is $8 a hundred pounds, and then you would have to break your package up into about 10 parcels, if you could possibly do it. So, I say, that instead of increasing the mail delivery business — of course it will to an extent — but it will not increase mail buying, but you will have no more incentive to use the mails in buying your goods than you have now; in, fact, not quite so much — just the differ- ence between $6 and $8 a hundred. The result wUl be that instead of ordering at a distance you will order nearer home, and that 50-mile zone is in order to meet not only what the people are paying to-day for express charges for that distance over which the majority of the business is handled, but the majority of this express business is short- haul busmess. It wiU increase that business, and give the people the use of this service at a rate approximating the present express rates within that radius. So it offers a premium upon near-by or home trading, because an 11-pound parcel^ under the provisions of these bills, figures 25 cents. If you buy it near home, within 50 miles of you, the transportation charge is 25 cents. If you buy it beyond 50 228 PARCELS POST. miles, it is from 88 to 92 cents. Therefore the premium is in favor of home trading, and you would use this service only upon the occasion of your being unable to get anything that would be deliverable by mail close at home. The Chairman. What limit would you fix the zone at ? Mr. Williams. I think 50 miles is about right. The Chairman. Why do you think so ? Mr. Williams. In the first place, you can usually find a trading point that will supply the average merchandise needs of even the most captious within 50 miles from anywhere. The Chairman. And you could not within 25 miles ? Mr. Williams. I do not believe you could. Take, for instance, my own home town, the location of the State University, having about 1,200 students. Practically all of them are away from home, and they will have occasion to use the parcels posts, even on the longer distance — that is, the general parcels post. By the use of that they could get packages from home and send them home. This is a town of 5,000 to 6,000 people. The next nearest large town is either Springfield, Mo., about 145 miles away, or Fort Smith, 65 miles away. Our town is the biggest town in that section, so when you get 50 miles from Fayetteville you would be in touch with either Spring* field or Fort Smith. The Chairman. But your town, wdth a 50-mne zone, would not be ia touch with any town of any consequence ? Mr. Williams. No, sir, it would not; but it would be in touch with Rogers, with 3,000 people, Bentonville, with the same number of people, Siloam Springs, with 2,000 people, and Springdale and a half a dozen other places. The- Chairman. I take it for granted that your town would be a distributmg center. It is the important town? Mr. Williams. Not much more important than the others. There is no other town of 3,000 people within 20 miles of it, but Fayetteville could not sell any goods in Rogers unless there was something that a man could not get in Rogers and beheved he could get at Fayette- ville. The Chairman. Is not this true, that if Rogers sent away from home to get its goods it would either send to St. Louis, Kansas City, or Chicago 1 Mr. Williams. It would. The Chairman. And the zone would not affect it? Mr. Williams. The zone would not affect it. The Chairman. And it would not make any difference whether the zone was 50 or 25 miles ? Mr. Williams. No, sir. Mr. Gardner. It seems to me you have overlooked the most important thing in the matter. Philadelphia is 58 miles from Atlantic City. Mr. Williams. Well, that may be an important consideration. I take it that the gentleman from New Jersey is interested in main- taining business for New Jerseyites; sol think, instead of overlooking it we have exactly met it, because Atlantic City would not trade under this exceptionally favorable rate in Philadelphia. Mr. Gardner. That is just what they would want to do. PARCELS POST. 229 Mr. Williams. That is just what they would be prevented from doing under the favorable rate. It would cost them 8 cents a pound when they traded in Philadelphia, or practically 2^ cents a pound when they traded in Atlantic City. The Chairman. What benefit really comes from the 50-mile zone or the 25-mile zone which the rural route delivery does not furnish ? Mr. Williams. I think Mr. Quick yesterday clearly explained that. The Chairman. He figured that within every radius of 50 miles there would be a good distributing center ? Mr. Williams. Yes. The Chairman. Such as Madison, Wis., or Chicago, 111. Mr. Williams. Of course it is not exactly in reference to that, .because in many places this country has no such cities within 50 miles. But my father lives 20 miles from Fayetteville, and he is on a rural road running out from a point on the star route, a thing which is not usual. He Ekes to read his papers, and soon after the rural delivery was started he went after this proposition and got a route established. He is at a point on a star route. Now, by the mail, though that is only 20 miles from Fayetteville, he would barely fall within that radius of 50 mUes. Mr. Quick said he would consider an air line. I take it that in the administration of a proposition of that kind no special rule would apply, but that the post-office route map would be the official publication, prepared under the authority of the Post Office Department, in which the distance between every post office in the United States is set out; and if you can not get the distance from one point to another, you can add up between several points. Under the provisions of this bill, the point that would be measured from, the point that takes the mileage, would be the initial point of the route, because any point on that route is the same as the initial point under the provisions of this bUl. At least that is its contem- plation; and instead of proving a detriment to the rural dealer, it offers a premium upon home purchasing, and yet it is at a charge which will certainly prove remunerative to the General Government. The Chairman. If you fix the 50-mile zone or the 25-mile zone, the effect of it is to increase the business of the town of 5,000 inhabi- tants and up, and to decrease the business of the town of 5,000 inhabitants or less than that; is not that true? Mr. Williams. Measurably, that is true. But it has not more of a tendency to do that than the building of a good road has to do it. It has no more tendency to do that than the building of a trolley Une or a railroad even. The Chairman. But does not that, to some extent, justify the con- tention of the local merchant in the little town ? Mr. Williams. I think not. The Chairman. That it would tend to injure him ? Mr. Williams. I think not. I will use an instance with which I am satisfied the chairman is perfectly familiar, and that is the city of St. Louis. There are five or six large stores in St. Louis, such as Nugent's and the Famous and others, which maintain their own delivery service, wagons, and so forth, and they will deliver a spool of thread or a suite of furniture or anything else to a purchaser any- where in St. Louis. They assume delivery charges and deliver it in their own vehicles. Now, out in the west end of St. Louis, 15 or 20 miles away, requiring a 40-minute street-car ride to get there 230 PARCELS POST. The Chairman. It is between 12 and 15 miles. Mr. Williams. Well, between 12 and 15 miles. There are more stores in the west end of St. Louis to-day than there were five years ago. Now, if the big merchant with only a 10-cent street-car fare be- tAveen him and the local merchant, the little storekeeper, the shop- keeper, can not drive the latter out of business in the west side of St. Louis and in the south side of St. Louis and in the north side of St. Louis, how is the parcels post going to send the local rural merchant out of business, or even decrease his business? That is true in every large city. Mr. TuTTLE. What kind of stores are those? Mr. Williams. Those are big department stores. Mr. TuTTLE. No ; I mean in the suburbs of the city. Mr. WiLLiAsis. Some are a pretty good size. Mr. Ttjttle. What class of goods do they sell ? Mr. Williams. Practically everything. Mr. TuTTLE. Are they dry-goods stores? Mr. Williams. Dry-goods stores. Mr. TuTTLE. Are they prosperous? Mr. Williams. Seemingly so. Mr. TuTTLE. I think that is hardly fair to say that there are any big dry-goods stores there. Mr. Williams. I mean out beyond Fortieth Street. The Chairman. In St. Louis, beyond the large West End Store, which is a big department store already in the west end, you will not find any large store that sells any great amount of goods. You will find all over St. Louis, in every direction, and in every city in the United States, as far as I have knowledge of, the corner grocery store. Mr. Williams. I am not talking about that. I am talking about the store carrying shirts and clothing and socks and hose, and a great many other kinds of merchandise. In other words, carrying about what the ordinary country stores carry. Mr. Gregg. A general merchandise store. Mr. Williams. Usually they are divided The Chairman. I think you are mistaken about the general mer- chandise. You are not mistaken about the grocery store or the drug store. It is just like this city in that respect. You can go into any place and find a grocery store, but not a dry-goods store of any size, nor a furniture store, nor a hardware store. Mr. Williams. They are not as thick as saloons in some places, and they are not as thick as drug stores in other places that are dry. I found those stores right straight along, every three or four blocks in every city I have been in. Take Milwaukee, for instance, a city only 75 miles from Chicago. There are a number of big stores in Mil- waukee. I spent two or three weeks there two years ago, and I was stopping out at Fortieth Street. I know there were stores out there at which you could buy possibly anything in the market. I observed the same thing to be true in other parts of the city. So it seems to me that that proves the argument that if the big store does not put the man who carries about the same kind of stock, although not quite so varied, in the outer edges of our large cities, and in the little suburban towns, out of business, parcels posts, with the 11 pounds delivery limit can not do it, when, the large stores have an unlimited delivery. PARCELS POST. 231 The Chairman. Here is a principle that has been advocated all the time by every speaker before this body, either in this hearing or the one preceding it, that the parcels post will result in benefit and enlargement of trade to the big concerns in the cities. Now, if it results in the enlargement of trade from the country districts to the big stores in the cities, then does that not necessarily take that trade away from the smaller stores not in the cities ? Mr. Williams. Not necessarily. It might simply be an increase in trade. It would never take it away. Mr. TtJTTLE. Don't you think the tendency now is, with the tele- phone and the rural de.livery, and with the easy communication with the cities, to eliminate the village merchant and suburban merchant ? Mr. Williams. There is no question in the world but that that is an economic tendency. Mr. TuTTLE. And this will hurry that along, that is, this will eliminate the country merchant ? Mr. Williams. I do not think it will hurry it a day — not a day. Mr. TuTTLE. You do not think it will take his trade away from the country merchant ? Mr. Williams. I do not think it will take a particle of trade away from him. The trade will simply be a development of trade. If you will go back to the hearings on rural delivery, you will find the same argument ; but I do not think an examination of the statistics will show that very many of these country storekeepers have gone out of existence. The Chairman. Let me ask you something here: In Illinois and Missouri and Iowa — take those three States as an illustration — the little towns within the last 10 years, most of them, have decreased in population. Mr. Williams. So has the entire State of Iowa. The Chairman. And the towns above 5,000 have increased in population. Why is that ? Mr. Williams. That is an economic tendency very largely accel- erated by the railroads. The Chairman. But there is not any change in the railroads. Mr. Williams. I understand, but it is due to the railroad rates. The railroads are looking for long hauls all the time, as long as they can get them, and trolley lines, and the development of the factory industries and things of that kind have an influence on towns of that sort. It is a rare factory that would locate in a very small place. It would have to absolutely move its labor there. The Chairman. That is one reason — he would have to move his labor; and the other reason is that in a small town ordinarily you would have only one railroad, and he wants to get to a railroad center with any liind of an important manufacturing establishment. Mr. Williams. Yes. The Chairman. lie also wants to get to a large town where he would have the advantage of the local labor supply. Mr. Whxiams. Yes; that is very true. Mr. Gregg. Is it not the tendency to develop a country by the trolley system? For instance, you run a trolley from St. Louis out 30 miles in the country: will not that entire country be developed rather than concentrating it around the city of St. Louis? 232 PARCELS POST. Mr. Williams. It will develop; yes, indeed. They both develop right along. It helps the city and it helps the country as well. Mr. Geegg. It does it in our section. Mr. Williams. It helps the city and country as well. Mr. Gregg. People have moved out from my own town along the trolley line, and have bought half an acre to an acre of land out there and made their homes there. Mr. Williams. And it stimulated the trade of the country store. There have been presented to this committee a great many selfish arguments. Even if it were true (Avhich it is not) that the adoption of the provisions of these bills would, in some measure, militate against the interests of the country merchant, is he, economically — a few thousands of him— to be considered against the millions of others ? The Chairman. Do you not think that the success of the farming community is very largely dependent upon the little towns? In other words, if you have a successful little town, does it not add to and make more valuable the country about it ? Mr. Williams. I have not regarded that as being sufficient, even if that were true, which I doubt very much, to justify subsidizing the local merchant. The Chairman. If you were seeking to buy a farm away from your locality where you were not acquainted, and you went to a town where you found everything prosperous — good streets, nice homes, good churches, good schoolhouses, and everything in a prosperous condition — ^would you not feel like going out to look at the land nearby? Suppose that the other place to which you went was such that you found a dilapidated town, population de- creasing, churches unpainted, schoolhouses going to rack, and streets out of order, would you not feel like turning around and going back at once ? Mr. Williams. I would go back. The Chairman. Without seeing the land at all ? Mr. Williams. I would go back; but the conditions that you have mentioned in your first supposition there axe only to be met with in a fair-sized town. You will not find any paved streets in a village. Now, what we know in Arkansas as a country town is one of about 100 people, or 500 people, or perhaps 1,000. If the town is located on a railroad, we would say it was a station or a fla;gging place, if there were not as many as 200 or 300 people in it, and it had one store and a blacksmith shop. The Chairman. In the general statement I made I had reference to towns of probably 1,000 inhabitants, where there would be some paved streets. Mr. Williams. You would be very likely to meet some paved streets, but when you find a town of a thousand people you find more than one store ; you find several of them, and quite a good deal of trading. It is more or less a center of itself. The Chairman. I appreciate that, but at the same time all through the Mississippi Valley country, with which I am familiar, the little town of 1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 inhabitants is going backward instead of forward. They have less population than they had 10 years ago, and their business interests are not as great as they were 10 years ago. Mr. TuTTLE. That same condition exists in New York State. The villages there are all going back. PAKCELS POST. 233 The Chairman. _ And I find that is a very serious question. Now, the town man believes that this parcels post would accelerate that very matter, and the farmer on the other hand, right around the town, says you are mistaken. Mr. Williams. Sure. The Chairman. But before we take any action, we ought to be pretty well satisfied about what effect the parcels post would have. Mr. Williams. Certainly. The Chairman. Upon these several communities. Mr. Williams. Now, right there let me offer this suggestion, which I think is a solution of this question : In discussing this subject with different officials of the department, the suggestion has been made that even a 4-pound parcels post would tax the facilities of the Post Office Department as at present constituted. • The Chairman. That is, if you add a nominal rate for the parcel ? Mr. Williams. A moderate rate. I think that certainly the rates as suggested in these bills are plenty high enough for the carrying of all the packages, not the long ones only, but the short ones as well. The Chairman. Now, in that connection, have you any assurance from the Post Office Department, or anybody connected with the Post Office Department, that if one of these measures were to become a law they would change their practice in any particular with refer- ence to the packet or package ? Mr. Williams. They have never told me so; in fact, I have tried to get them to say a good many things. The Chairman. You would infer nothing from the treatment they gave you and the expressions which have been made (whatever have been made) that they would not? Mr. Williams. No ; m3' influence would be directly to the contrary, because they have said that this is a question for the Congress ; that Congress knew what thej were doing, and that if Congress did not like it, or wanted it different, it was for Congress to say. The Chairman. But your contention is that the law has been such that we have had a monopoly all these years ? Mr. Williams. Yes. The Chairman. Well, if we had a monopoly all these years under the law, you might change the form of it a little, but would there not be the same disposition with regard to it as exists to-day ? Mr. Williams. In a good many ways. Even the Postmaster Gen- eral obeys the law ; and if we had made the law clearer, and if you had made the law clear with a full discussion of the matter, as to what you intended him to do, I do not think he would attempt to disregard the wishes of Congress. I do not think there is any Post- master General who would have the nerve to do it. The Chairman. Then, you account for the action of the Post Office Department on the ground that the law has not been sufficiently clear to force him to obey it ? Mr. Williams. No ; not exactly that. This unfortunate jjpimon got in there in 1881, restricting the meaning of the word "packet" to a bundle of letters. It does include a bundle of letters, but that is not all it includes. It is just like the term, let us say, " horse." A horse means the male of its species, but the term used in law, or m a dis- cussion of the subject, includes the female of the species as well. 234 PARCELS POST. However, there is some merit to the suggestion made by the ojKcials that the Congress knew what was going on in this country when the criminal code was enacted, and that if they did not intend it should have continued and that the Post Office Department should be handled in that way, they would have made it clear. There is some merit to that contention. I have not been able to understand the reasonings of a public official where he resolves doubts as against the Government. I am not one of those individuals who are msisting all the time, when they have discovered an evil, that you should have a law, because, as a rule, you will find that you already have law enough. Occasionally you get matters of interpretation that make it necessary to reenact ; but, as I say, I never could understand the attitude of a public servant, whether of the Federal Govermnent or the State government or city govern- ment, who resolves the doubts as against his employer. We do not do it in our business. We always resolve the doubts in favor of our employer; and I confess to a failure to appreciate the mind that works in the other way. Mr. Gardner. This is a government of granted powers, is it not? Mr. WnuLiAMs. It is so. Mr. Gardker. Is not that a reason for a strict construction being assumed under powers, except those that are without doubt? Mr. Williams. In some respects it is a government of granted and enumerated powers, particularly the congressional powers and dis- tinct grants of power, most of them, and certainly you will not be safe on a proposition to enact law ; but when it comes to administer- ing the law that Congress had the power to enact, I do not think it is a proposition of granted powers to the official who is called upon to administer that law. Mr. Gardner. If he has no powers, except those he finds in the law, ought he not be sure he finds them there before he administers the law? Mr. Williams. He certainly should. The Chairman. Do you think an executive officer would have any power which was not granted to him by law ? Mr. Williams. He would not; certainly not. All rules of con- struction take into consideration that there is nothing to construe, if it is plain as to what Congxess meant. I say it without fear of suc- cessful contradiction of any sort that an investigation of this subject will convince anyone of exactly what Congress meant when these laws were enacted in 1844, that they were to prevent just what the reports of the committee said they were to prevent ; that is, express competi- tion in the carriage of mail matter. Similar laws had been in force long before, but in relation to the carriage of letter or packet by foot or horse post, that whoever shall establish any foot or horse post for conveyance of letter or packet over any mail route or road alongside, before the days of railroad. That was in 1827, or about that time, and a question arose as to the construction of this statute. Perhaps it was a little later than 1827, and a hearing was had on the matter, and the court said the law was not sufficient. It was after the estab- lishment of express companies. It was an express company trans- action, and the court held that the express company was not a foot post or horse post, and therefore there would have to be additional legislation, and then came this statute of 1845. PARCELS POST. 235 I have here a clipping of another fight that came on a little later about the proposition of private expresses. It is an extract from the Philadelphia Evening Bulletin of Monday, March 15, 1909, and tells of the death of Albert Kochersperger, who had a long struggle with the United States Government in endeavoring to maintain competi- tion with it for the postal service of Philadelphia. This man was party to a case that is reported in the Federal Reports cited in the brief which is attached to Senate Document No. 542. That case em- braces an important discussion of this particular subject, and this is an article telling of Mr. Kochersperger's death last year. It recites the story of his fight with the United States Government in an endeavor to maintain an independent postal system, and the result of it. , The Chairman. That does not have any bearing on parcels post, does it? Mr. WiLUAMS. Except that relation. The Chaieman. It just gives a history of his attempt? Mr. Williams. Of his attempt to maintain an independent post- office system. Now, it seems to me, as stated by John Wanamaker, that it is true that there are four reasons against the establishment of parcels post, and only four ; or, rather, now there would be about six, because there are six big express companies. He named them. This shows what the attitude of the Government was to the express companies up to 1840 or 1845 or 1850, or along there. I want to submit to the com- mittee that it seems to me * Mr. Gregg. Before you go into that, you were switched off the track; you were going to give us a solution. Mr. Williams. I was just starting to try to do it. You have been met in your correspondence and in the public press with arguments against parcels post, by hearings here at this particular occasion, by hearings a year ago at which there were arguments both for and against, and, as I remarked a moment ago; a good many of those araruments are selfish. The argument against parcels post is a purely selfish one. The Chairman. Do you think it is any more selfish than the one for it? Mr. Williams. I do. The Chairman. One is to help the individual and the other is to help the individual. One is to help certain classes and the other is to help certain other classes. Mr. Williams. The argument for it has the additional saving grace that it adds to the revenues of the Post Office Department. The Chairman. By increasing the deficit each year. Mr. Williams. Increasing the deficit each vear? Bless you, no. As has been stated, I believe at least in a semiofficial way, by, perhaps, some of the present emplovees of the Post Office Department, their estimate is that it will add $35,000,000 a year to the Government.^ The Chairman. There has nothing been before this committee that shows it will add a solitary cent, and if you have any proof along that line, we would like to have it. Mr. Williams. I should be glad to present it. The Chairman. Your statement has been with reference to second- class matter, and you admitted that it cost 2 cents a pound to carry 236 PARCELS POST. that mail over the railroads; and your statement, when analyzed, ■vrill show very clearly that if we have exclusive control of the second- class matter, it will add to the deficit of the Government. Now, if you reduce the postal rate on fourth-class matter from 16 cents to 8 cents, and your admitted statement is true, that it costs 12 cents a pound to carry every pound of fourth-class matter, I would like for you to explain how you can make a profit to the Government by reducing the compensation 4 cents below what it costs to carry the package. Mr. Williams. The reason is that those assumptions are not true. The Chairman. What assumptions are not true ? Mr. Williams. The assumption that the exercise of the full and complete post-oifice monopoly on second-class mail matter would, of necessity, add to the post-office deficit, for the reason that it adds a revenue without any proportionate cost. The Chairman. But you have admitted it added 2 cents for every pound that is carried on a train ; that which comes back to the Gov- ernment is only 1 cent, so that on every pound of such matter there must necessarily be a loss of 1 cent. Mr. Williams. I do not understand that the rail transportation is that. The Chairman. The rail transportation alone is 2 cents and more, and you admitted it a while ago. Maybe you did it inadvertently. Mr. Williams. I do not think my presentation of the matter would warrant that conclusion. I admit that the cost of the matter as now handled is that. The Chairman. Then how do you propose to change the handling? Mr. Williams. Wait just a second. The Chairman. Go ahead ; you are getting just to the point. Mr. Williams. The handling of the matter, handling the long-haul portion of it, is costing 2 cents a pound, but if you would take it all, you would necessarily decrease the proportion of the cost of the han- dling and at the same time increase your revenues, because you have a full mail car instead of a partially filled one. The Chairman. Would not the railroad company get the same pay for carrying a larger amount than it does for carrying a smaller amount, per pound? Mr. Williams. There would not be any change in that. But the car pay is a decidedly different proposition, because you would not add any more cars, scarcely, if any; and that enters into the calcu- lation of these costs. The Chairman. The car pay is proportionately a very small part of the railway-mail pay. It is about one-ninth of the railway-mail pay. Then, admit that proposition, and still there are 2 cents left. Mr. Williams. The only figures you have upon the matter are for handling the long-haul, single-copy portion of the business. Now, I will tell you how you can get that and get it exactly. If you will address a circular, a blank, properly prepared, to every publisher in the United States, requiring him to return to you his circulation, whether daily, monthly, weekly, or whatever it is, how many of those he circulates county free, how many he circulates by carrier — which you would not get — how many he circulates by express, and how many he circulates by mail; that will give the figures, and that will give absolutely some illuminating figures upon the subject of the han- PABCELS POST. 237 dling of second class; and in no other way, in my judgment, can you get the exact figures upon it. In other words, here is a Post Office Department which makes this division by their accountants and dis- tributes arbitrarily certain portions of the cost of the department to different classes of mail. The Chairman. You admitted, when you referred to it Mr. WiuJJVMS. Upon a business which is now doing that, upon which, perhaps, no better figures could be had. But the trouble with that is, and the inaccuracy of the proposition is, that those figures are based upon a business which is the unprofitable portion of the business, instead of all the business. The Chairman. You are basing your idea, then, upon this state- ment, that if the law is changed the Post Office Department will make a monopoly of all this business, and it will get the advantage of the short haul ? Mr. Williams. Most assuredly. The Chairman. But you have not been assured that the Post Office Department is going to do that. You say that the law has been that way all the time ; and yet they have construed it the other way and have not carried it out. Mr. Williams. There has been an awakening in this country as to public responsibility, and I apprehend no difficulty from a proposi- tion of that kind. The same observation made with reference to second-class matter is equally true with reference to fourth-class matter or any other class of matter. The department, in its figures, arbitrarily distrib- utes a certain portion of the handling, because the same clerk who handles first-class matter — letters — handles newspapers, and he handles third-class matter and fourth-class matter. He has worked all day ; he is handling a certain number of pieces of each. The next day he does an entirely different proposition and the postal rents, and does this and that and the other. These figures must necessarily be simply very largely an arbitrary assignment of a certain proportion of the cost. Just exactly as to how they did that, and upon what theory and upon what principle — and very little principle — that was done, is set forth in these calculations. Of the fourth-class matter the Government, even upon that assignment, made a profit of more than $2,000,000 handling the packages that went through the post offices, a certain niunber of them, and that only averaged a third of a pound in weight; and they say they did that on that arbitrary assignment, handling only the unprofitable portion of the business, because it took just as much mail-clerks' time to handle an ounce package as it would a pound. The Chairman. Hardly. You do not want to be understood that way. Mr. Williams. You might try it yourself some day. The Chairman. You could not handle as many pound packages as you could letters? Mr. Williams. Certainly not. You could not handle as many pound packages as you could letters, but you could handle more pounds of packages than you could pounds of letters. The Chairman. Certainly. Mr. Williams. So the Government, upon the unprofitable portion of the business, that carrying the high cost of handling, large dis- tribution costs, made $2,000,000. 238 PARCELS POST. The Chairman. As far as you and I are concerned, I am very anxious you shall develop this point from this consideration. I do not believe it costs the Government twelve and a fraction cents. Mr. Williams. I simply say that is the arbitrary assignment; but for purposes of illustration, I do not know any better way of get- ting it. The Chairman. For purposes of argument it may be you are bound to accept that. Mr. Williams. That is the spirit in which I accept any of these figures in this report of the Post Office Department showing the cost of transporting and handling the mail, for purposes of argument and illustration, because I know no way of getting the figures ex- cept as regards second-class matter. That, it seemed to me, would be a simple thing, and I have wondered a long time why it has not been done, that is, send a blank to every publisher requiring him to return his average daily issue, or weekly issue, or monthly, or quarterly, whatever it may be. Ask him, "How many pounds do you send free in the county? How many do you deliver by your own carriers? How many do you send by express? How many do you give the mails ? " And then you have some figures upon the business of the country, and you can see exactly what the express companies are get- ting on that business; you will know it to a dot. It is absolutely impossible to tell from the business handled by the Post Office De- partment, of second-class mail matter, whether it costs them 9 cents a pound or 90. ' Mr. Gardner. Do you desire the statement to stand that the small packages and the light things are the most expensive to the Govern- ment in proportion to their receipts ? Mr. Williams- I do not believe that that is warranted from my statement. Mr. Gardner. Oh, yes; you just stated that the small packages were the most unprofitable part of the business, and illustrated it by the cost of handling. Mr. Williams. It would on fourth-class mail matter be the most unprofitable portion, proportionately. Mr. Gardner. Is that so, in the light of the demonstration that has already gone into the record that on all classes of matter, as I understand it, the profit comes in the light packages because of the fractions ? Mr. Williams. I do not understand that is quite accurate. Mr. Gardner. If there are eight packages of less than a pound, the Government is likely to receive eight fractions of a cent. Mr. Williams. That is true. Mr. Gardner. If it is in a 1-pound package there would be but one fraction of a cent ? Mr. Williams. Yes ; let me give this illustration. There is offered to the Government ten 1-pound packages paying, at the present time, 10 cents a pound, or $1.60 ; and one 10-pound package, under parcels post, at that high figure, producing $1.60. It seems apparent to me that with the proportionate amount of revenue received from the one package the cost of handling the distribution would be very much jjroportionately less than the cost of handling the distribution of 10 single packages. Mr. Gardner. That is self-evident, if you make the weights even. PARCELS POST. 239 Mr. Williams. If you get them into ounces, you have produced a like result. Sixteen ounces is 1 pound. Mr. Gardner. Let us take the fact demonstrated .which is that they do not come in as ounces, but on almost every package the Governments gains in the fraction. Mr. WiLLL^MS. One of these bills increases the fraction. It is now an ounce or a fraction thereof, and this will give the margin in favor of the Government, because it is 2 cents on each 4 ounces or fraction thereof, about eight times ; eight to ten times as high. Mr. Williams. Recurring to the observation made a moment or two ago as to what seems to me to be a correct solution of this situation, as tersely put as I am able to do it, assuming you are confronted with selfish arguments, both for and against parcels post, those arguments, to my mind, that are favorable to the establishment of a system along something of the lines of these bills are, in a measure, relieved from the argument of selfishness by the broader one of the public good and the revenues to be derived from the handling of this character of busi- ness. In my judgment, the establishment of such a system along the lines of these bills will harm no one, will be an occasional convenience, but that it will prove as big a boon as many of the advocates of parcels post believe, I do not believe. We had in this country, at the beginning, an unlimited parcels post, which existed until 1810, when the limit was placed at 3 pounds. It was afterwards raised to 4 pounds. It has been nominally a parcels post at 4 pounds; though a member of the Post Office Committee, at the hearings a year ago, admitted he did not know this country had a parcels post. Mr. Gregg. Since what time? Mr. Williams. Since along in the seventies, I think, when the limit was fixed at 4 pounds; perhaps a little earlier. Even the country merchant could find no objection to the reassertion of what I think this committee, and anyone else who will study the subject, is con- vinced is a rightful exercise of the post-office function — the carrying of all matter which is by law made mailable. You are confronted with the situation in the Post Office Department, and in the admin- istration of that part of the problem of which you must take due cognizance, that to suddenly unload approximately half of the express companies — ^the average weight of packages of 100 pounds and under is 24.21 pounds— so if you went up to 11 it looks like you might just about get half of the express companies' business, really the profitable portion of their business, too, because it is that that takes the higher rates. The Chairman. Do you think the express companies are a neces- sary part of our transportation system ? Mr. Williams. I do not. The Chairman. Are they necessary to the well-being and develop- ment of the best interests of the people ? Mr. Williams. They are not. The Chairman. Why do you make that statement? Mr. Williams. Because they are a parasite, a carpet-bag inter- polation into the transportation system of this country, and in the express cases — they are usually Imown as the express cases— in the United States Supreme Court Reports the intimation is plainly made there by the Supreme Court of the United States that the railroads of the country may lawfully be required to perform this very express service. 240 PAKCELS POST. The Chairman. Do you think they ought to be required to per- form the express service? Mr. Williams. I do. The Chairman. Then it is your idea that the express companies ought to be forced out of business Mr. Williams. That they are a nuisance. The Chairman (continuing). And the heavy part of their busi- ness should be transferred to the railroads and the other part of it to the Government? Mr. Williams. Yes; the parcels post. The Chairman. In that connection, suppose that were done, do you think we owe any obligation of recompense to the express com- panies for taking their business away from them by law ? Mr. Williams. I do not think we do. The Chairman. Why not ? Mr. Williams. They have made it all out of us; let them keep what they have and go their way in peace. The Chairsian. Do you not think that many of the holders of stock in the express companies to-day are bona fide holders of stock? Mr. Williams. They are. The Chairman. Who are not responsible for what has occurred heretofore ? Mr. Williams. There are a few such. I think it would be an interesting illumination upon that phase of the subject to see an actual list of the stockholders of the diflEerent companies. An ex- amination of the express-company reports will show that there is* no such thing as a wide distribution of express-company stock. It is most closely held, indeed. I believe this report right here discloses the number of stockholders in each express company, and there are express companies with a very few. The Chairman. I did not intend to divert you. Mr. Williams. For instance, the National Express Co. had eight stockholders; the Globe Express Co. had nine, and the Lake Su- perior Co. owns the Great Northern ; the American Express Co. has a very few stockholders, about 3,000. The Chairman. You can put that in your statement if you desire to. We will not ask any further questions, but will let you go ahead with your solution. Mr. Williams. As stated, even a country merchant recognizes that this country has always had a 4-pound parcels post. But I believe when I was diverted I was making my remarks to the situation of the administration of such a system ; that is, the tax upon the existing postal facilities. It would be no serious tax upon existing postal facilities to enforce immediately, and establish immediately, a sure- efiough 4-pound parcels post, and at the same time embrace within the provisions of such a bill a full monopoly in the handling of sec- ond-class mail. You, then, in the course of a year, will know of a certainty the result and experience of the use of such an application of the law to second-class matter as well as to fourth-class matter. At the siime time you have shown the utter uselessness of any in- quiry into the subject matter of second-class rates, because, I think, as I have clearly shown to the committee, any such inquiry not taking into account the amount of such matter carried by express can pro- duce no very illuminating figures. If we have been haiiling this mat- PAilGBLB POST. 241 ter too low we will find out just how much too low when we haul it all. Then the postal system must be considered as a whole, because it is absolutely impossible to determine as to what effect second-class matter has upon the other classes of matter ; how much they produce both first and fourth. Then, as I say, approximating a year, full and complete results of this are shown. At that time, by the provi- sions of a measure which, were I doing it under oath as a Member of Congress, I should promptly report, I should have that bill auto- niatically increase that limit to about 7 pounds; and I should have that bill automatically, at the expiration of another year, go to 11 pounds. In other words, you at one stroke do not change the policy of the Government. The Chairman. Why do you want the automatic change? - Mr. Williams. That is, the provisions of the bill as to those weights would take effect at that time; that is what I mean; that is, that the bill provides for the establishment of an 11-pound parcels post, but that it becomes immediately effective as to the matter of the weight limit of 4 pounds, a year, say, at 7 pounds, and in an- other year it reaches the maximum of 11, and at once takes over the transportation of all second-class matter, as in this bill provided. The adoption of that term defining the word " packet " will settle that. On the subject of rates, you may be able to reach a conclusion that these rates are wrong. But here is the nine years' experience of the American Express Co. at a less rate upon those very same kind of packages, a considerably less rate. It seems to me it is worth a try out upon a rate of this character and the operation of such a meas- ure enacted promptly into law would show its results in post-office revenues very promptly. Then you have met the demand for par- cels post, even at the assumption that it would make trouble for an occasional merchant, and I should embody the zone, this on the pro- tective theory, because that is what that is done for; it is to put a premium upon such local trading as would be used by such parcels post, making it less than one-third of what the general rate is. The ounce is the unit on the general rate; the pound is the unit on the local rate. Then, if such a contingency should arise in any instance there is no harm done to the merchant, at least on the first round, because the Government would not be extending its competition at all, except on the proposition of the lower rate, slightly so ; but there could be no reasonable objection to the proposition. But right there comes the objection to an experimental parcels post upon a few routes, for the reason that it is absolutely impossible for any one route, or any dozen routes, or a route in half a dozen counties, to give any fair information upon the subject. It is not like the proposition of rural mail, for a good many reasons, which I do not believe it is worth while for me to attempt to elucidate. Then, by the operation of that matter for a year, the 7-pound limit applies, and then in another year the 11, and you have settled the proposition of discussion as to second-class mail matter, put a finish to this situ- ation, and put the post office out of express company influence or domination, or any chance of such. You have solved a problem which has been discussed from time to time, and put it in a way that, 3110—11 16 242 PARCELS POST. it seems to me, is absolutely impossible of attack and free from every objection. If there are no further questions, I have concluded. ' Mr. Bell. Under the parcels post which you propose, for instance, I want to mail a watch to any given point. What kind of a rate of postage would you have on that to guarantee the sender the value of that watch if lost? Mr. Williams. The bill of Mr. Sulzer provides a method of in- surance, and rates therefor. I have not discussed that feature of insurance, because it seems to me a matter that the committee could ascertain as much about as I could. The bill provides : On registered parcels of declared value, and on whicli the fee for registration, Insurance, and postage has been duly prepaid, the Post Office Department shall pay the full value of any direct loss or damage that may occur through the fault of the postal service. The fees for insurance and registration shall be as follows : For registration and insurance up to fifty dollars, ten cents ; for each additional fifty dollars, two cents. No claim for compensation will be admitted if not presented within one year after the parcel is posted. I have never attempted to make up my mind with reference to that. The Chairman. You would say that is an exceedingly cheap in- surance ? Mr. Williams. I would regard that as rather cheap insurance, be- cause, under existing law, the proposition of insurance is provided for, for you simply pay the postage rates and take it down to the express company and pay the express rate, if you want to insure. Mr. Bell. But under your proposed law you confiscate and do away with the express company. Mr. Williams. Oh, no. Mr, Bell. That is about what you said awhile ago. Mr. Williams. I said that ought to happen ; but we will be several years The Chairman. I thought your scheme in effect would accom- plish that result. While these particular two bills do not do that, the Lewis bill does. Mr. Williams. I understand the Lewis bill does ; yes, sir. The Chairman. You had reference, then, in what you said about the bills, to the Howard bill and the^Sulzer bill ; you do not include the Lewis bill? Mr. Williams. I have not attempted to study Mr. Lewis's bill, have not had any opportunity to do so. It is, of course, a far-reach- ing measure. The Chairman. You advocate the principles of the Lewis bill ? Mr. Williams. The principles of the Lewis bill, in so far as it en- deavors to work out the proposition of the elimination of the express companies, are undoubtedly economically sound, because they are just one agency other than we have any use for. The Chairman. If the express companies were done away with, disposed of, then, of course, the insurance would be necessary? Mr. Williams. Yes and no. Mr. Chairman. You would not want the Government to carry parcels of very great value without some assurance to the person send- ing the parcels that he would be reimbursed in the event of loss? Mr. Williams. That, of course, would be proper. By the way, insurance was suggested even away back about 1835 or 1840. In that event, some provision with reference to insurance would be necessary, of course. PAKCELS POST. 243 Mr. Beu.. Do I understand you to mean that you are opposed to the universal or general parcels post? You would have it limited either by local routes or by the zone system. Mr. Williams. I am in favor of a general parcels post, but coupled with that is a local rural parcels post, with preferential rates, and on account of the fact that undoubtedly a large proportion of packages handled the short distances would reach the rural routes, either goin^ or coming, and helping out the consumer in the cities and in variout ways such as might work out The Chairman. You would not call that a local rural parcels post ; you would call that a zone post ? Mr. Williams. A zone post, because the idea of the rural parcels Eost has usually been one that was confined to the route, and I think [r. Quick explained why that would not satisfy the needs of the American farmer, or of the city dweller close to such routes. (Thereupon, at 4.30 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until to-morrow, Saturday, June 17, 1911, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) StJBCOMMITTBE No. 4 OF THE Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads, House of Representatives, Saturday, June 17, 1911 — 10.80 a. m. The subcommittee met pursuant to adjournment, Hon. James T. Lloyd in the chair. - The Chairman. Mr. Akin, you can be heard now. STATEMENT OF HON. THERON AKIN, REPRESENTATIVE IN CON- GRESS FROM NEW YORK. Mr. Akin. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, as far as the details, the working out of this matter is concerned, I have not goneinto that; but I want to say that last summer when I was a candidate for Congress in my district, I had numerous communica- tions, from almost every one of my district, wanting to know how I stood on parcels post; that they had written to both candidates, and unless the candidate stood for a parcels post, a good general parcels post, they would not support him. It was on that platform that I ran, mostly. I am down here to support a parcels post. I heard some remarks made yesterday in regard to what effect it might have on the country merchant. Now, then, I am only expressing my view in regard to this. I have sat around a country corner store, a country grocery store, for the last 40 years, and they have a post office in that country store. My idea is that it would not hurt the country merchant, because the fanners, as they probably do out in your country, come to a merchant like that and he carries them for a year, from crop to crop, and he would rather buy from this merchant, even though the merchant has to send him supplies by parcels post, because he has got to get trusted. Most of the people are still getting trusted in the country. The farmers are not near as rich as some people think they are. That is my idea as to the hurting of the country merchant. It is very remote. 244 PABOELS POST. The Chairman. Don't you think it would build up the business of the city and in doing that take away from the business of the country ? Mr. Akin. Oh^ no. There has been a great deal of talk about this advertising portion of the mail being cut out, and all that. You take a merchant who advertises a corset, something new. Ten thou- sand or a hundred thousand women will write to that firm to inquire about that corset. There is all that first-class postage being paid simply because of inquiries that are being made about the corset. The Chairman. But if the woman buys the corset from the corset company that advertises it, she will not buy the corset from the country or local merchant. Mr. Akin. She may possibly. She is just as ajpt to buy from the country merchant as in the city. She may write and make some inquiry about it and then write to the merchant and ask him to get it for her, because she is getting trusted for it. I have seen that done hundreds of times in my own local post office. The people in my district insist that I must stand for a general parcels post; and as I said before, it was unanimous all over the district of five counties, and I am simply here to tell you that I am for a parcels post because my people want a parcels post. The Chairman. And not for any particular bill ? Mr. Akin. I can not say that I am for any particular bill, except that I am for any good bill that can be brought up in the House. I am going to vote for it. Mr. SuLzEE. You know the Legislature of the State of New York unanimously passed resolutions m favor of a general parcels post bill along the lines of my bill. Mr. Akin. Yes sir; I do know that. I have not gone into the details of any of the bills particularly, owing to the fact that I have been pretty busy since I have been here, being a new member, and using a great deal of time to get acquainted with the routine. Mr. SuLZEE. You made your campaign throughout your district almost entirely upon your advocacy of a general parcels post? Mr. Akin. Well, yes. I will say this: It was a general parcels post ; and the people there did not like the methods of the Republican organization, such methods as they had been in the habit of using there for the last eight or ten years. But it was strongly on the parcels post proposition, because they claimed that they wrote to my predecessor and he told them that they had a good enough parcels post. That is about the satisfaction he gave them, and they did not take that very kindly. The Chairman. Who was he? Mr. Akin. His name was Durey. Mr. SuLZEE. And your district was Republican by over 20,000, was it not. Mr. Akin. No, sir. My district was Republican by from eight, nine, ten, eleven thousand, along about that ; it fluctuated. The Chairman. You are a Republican^ are you not ? Mr. Akin. Yes, sir; I am a Republican. I have always been that. My father was a charter member of the Republican Party and a particular friend of Lloyd Garrison and Henry Ward Beecher, and those fellows. The Chairman. Is there anything further? Mr. SuLZEE. But you were elected on a Democratic ticket? PABCBLS POST. 245 Mr. Akin. No sir, I was not. I will state- The Chaieman (interposing). It is not necessary that this shall go into the record. We understand that matter fully. Mr. Cowles, we will hear you now. STATEMENT OF JAMES LEWIS COWLES, SECRETARY OF THE POSTAL PROGRESS LEAGUE. Mr. CowIaES. I am here as a representative of the Postal Progress League, which to-day represents, I think I may say fairly, the farmers of the country and the labor interests of the country ; and, secondly, a very large number of the leading business firms of the city of New York. I think also the Postal Progress League has a right to assume the position that the Democratic parties of New York and of Massachusetts were led to place postal parcels planks in their platforms very largely through our work. Mr. Chairman, I am here to-day in behalf of two bills, the first bill, H. E. No. J4, of Mr. Sulzer's, which has been before the coun- try for considerably pver a year. Mr. Sulzer's bill differs from the bill presented by Congressman Bennett, at the first extra session of Congress, simply in this, that it provides for the extension of the weight limit from 4 to 11 pounds. Otherwise than that they are identical. Those bills have been before the country now ever since the special session of the Sixty-first Congress. I think they ^re understood perfectly well. The Sulzer bill provides for the consolidation of third and fourth class mail matter, at 8 cents, a reduction to the old common rate of 1874, and just about the common rate of European countries sending parcels over to this country. That is the first proposition. Then it extends the weight limit from 4 to 11 pounds, which is tjie common limit of the world postal union to-day. It is the common limit of England, but is not by any means the limit of all European countries. The common limit of the countries of Europe is 110 pounds ; in Belgium it is 130 pounds. In England it is a very inter- esting and significant fact that Mr. Heaton, who had been the postal leader of England for a great many years, has for a long time been advocating the extension of weight to 100 pounds, on the ground that the weight limit of England and the high rates — for he says they are high rates — ^have had a detrimental influence upon the farmers of England, as to cause something like a million and a half acres of Eng- lish land to be thrown into pasturage or to gO into desert, in the past few years. I will give you the exact language a little bit later with reference to that. He says the result of that has been to force a large number of the small farm holders of England to give up their places because they could not keep horses to carry their goods, and the only way they could exist was through an extended parcels post. In consequence, they have been thrown into the cities, there to com- pete with workers in other lines of industry ; and then as a result of the parcels-post service of other countries, and as a result further of discriminations by the railroads of England in favor of oiirselves, they have been very sadly handicapped and injured. Mr. Chairman, a scientific express service, a door to door public transport service, secure, efficient, cheap, a service guaranteeing abso- 246 PAEGELS POST. lute equality of transport rights and transport privileges to all per- sons and all places, is an imperative necessity of modern life, and the modem post office; and the People's Mutual Express Co. is the one mechanism that can answer these demands. Its scientific system of uniform rates for all distances rests upon the law, that in public transportation the cost of the service is re- gardless of the distance traversed by any unit of traffic within the capacity of the moving machinery. That is as much a law of transportation as the law of gravitation is the law of falling bodies. Bobody can get out of it. It is recog- nized as the law by the highest railway authorities in the world, as I shall present to you a little bit later. By the way, I want to say I would like to have certain documents I have here placed in the record as a part of my remarks — a copy of the Postal Progress, a printed argument upon this proposition, the Sulzer bill, H. R. 14, and a bill, H. E. 8083, introduced by Mr. Reilly, entitled "A bill for the extension of the post office over the entire business of public transportation," which is nothing more nor less than a reduplication, with some improvements, of the bill introduced by his predecessor, Congressman Sperry, away back in 1898; again reintroduced the following year by Congressman Henry of Con- necticut and by Senator Pettigrew. Eeally, I may say with reference to these bills that the reason given by some of my opponents for refusing to pass our little bits of bills has been this : That the extension of the post office meant the extension of its weight limit over the entire business of public trans- portation. Those gentlemen, honestly and fairly not believing the post office should be extended in that way, have opposed it for that reason. Judge Gerford opposed our little bill for the consolidation of third and fourth class mail matter strictly and solely on the ground that it was an entering wedge for the extension of the weight limit up to 25 pounds and 200 pounds, to cover the entire business of trans- portation. I do not understand that he was opposed to the bill on account of its cost, but because it inevitably meant the extension of the weight limit to 25 pounds and 200 pounds to cover the whole business of public transportation. The printed argument to which I have referred as desiring to have placed in the record is a speech of Congressman Bennett, of last year, m which he dealt with the principle of uniform rates, which will be clear to everybody, and I would like to have it follow my remarks. It is a notable fact, moreover, that our modern system of me- chanical transport had hardly come into being before the great Eng- - lishman, Rowland Hill, discovered this law of its use, and upon it based the uniform English penny-letter post of 1839 — -the sure fore- runner of a postal service covering the whole world's business of public transportation. And history hath it that except for the opposition of the English railway speculator Mr. Hill would have accompanied his penny-letter post with the establishment of an extended parcels post. The leading thinkers of England were at that time in favor of that being done, but all the English people were wild for railways. They did not care much how they got them, and the men pushing them forward wanted to get all there was out of it. But this wonderful service, when it came into existence, had hardly come into existence before it spread like wildfire all over the world. PAECELS POST. 247 Somebody has said something about the cost of service. Gentle- men, for several years after the penny letter post of England came into being, there was a deficit in the post office m funds, but there was a social benefit a thousand times greater than any financial loss. What did it do? It made it practicable for the working man of England to combine with his neighbors over the English Isle for his own advancement. The day m 1839 when the English penny post became law was the birthday of democracy. Its opponents put forward just the same objections that are put forward to-day. The idea of carrying a letter from one end of the country to the other as cheaply as from London to the nearest village ! Why, it was an absurdity ; it could not be done ! But the common people of England heard the reformer gladly, and so the common people were triumphant, and every country in the world followed. Within three years after that movement was started you heard the English poet, Tennyson, singing to the world in Locksley Haill of the wonderful victory — Men, my brothers, men the workers, ever reaping something new ; That which they have done but earnest of the things that they shall do. For I dipt Into the future, far as human eye could see, Saw the Vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be ; Saw the heayens fill with commerce, argosies of magic sails, Pilots of the purple twilight, dropping down with costly bales ; • Heard the heavens All with shouting, and there rain'd a ghastly dew From the nations' airy naries grappling in the central blue ; Far along the world-wide whisper of the south-wind rushing warm, with the standards of the peoples plunging thro' the thunder-storm ; 'Till the war-drum throbb'd no longer, and the battle-flags were furl'd In the Parliament of man, the Federation of the world. There the common sense of most shall hold a fretful realm in awe. And the kindly earth shall slumber, lapt in unlyersal awe. Now, mark this that happened a little bit later — right in the midst of our war. The great Postmaster General, Montgomery Blair, sug- gested a world's postal union with uniform rates everywhere; and then in 1863 — in the dark days of 1863 — Abraham Lincoln estab- lished the modern post office of the United States with uniform rates over all of our continent, and- then made it for the first time possible for the man who had gone out from his distant home to communicate readily with his friends ; and cut down the express letter rate, at that time, from 25 cents to $1 to 3 cents a half ounce. The Wells Fargo at that time were carrying letters. They were doing a good work. I am not finding fault with the express companies. They did a splendid work. That the rates were not lower than those of the post office was not because of the express companies. It was because we ourselves had thought but little of the post office. That is the reason for it. I am not going to blame anybody because we have not a more extended service. It is because we have not thought of it our- selves. The Chairman. Do you think we ought not to attack the express companies ? Mr. CowuES. I think the time has come when the express company must give way to the public service— the bigger express companies. That IS my point. The express companies have done a gi-eat work: but in regard to their work they have pursued a wrong policy. You must not make money out of this class of work; and if you do it, its 248 PARCELS POST. results are inevitably wrong and harmful. There are some classes of business that exist only for the puljlic security, the publip prji^sr perity, the public convenience. When you use them for mpney-in^k- ; ing purposes they are inevitably wrong. The Chaipman. Is it all right to use expriess for money-piaking purposes? _• Mr. CowLES. Sp long as they are doing that pjijslic wprk you jnust expect them to do it in that way ; but it should be done by tjie Gov- ernment, and without regard to money-making purposes. To proceed with the history of this thing : In 1874, as soon as ttje war drums had ceased their thrpbjbing, then Dr. — — — , of G^r- many, called the statesmen of the world around him and Qstabligneid the world postijl union, with uniform rates throughout the wp}.'ld. , A little bit later he established a parcp^s-post union and invited Pur people to join with them. For a little time it looked as if they would, but other interests choked it off. However, in 1874 we did establish a parcels post in this cpimtry with a uniform rate on all merchandise of 8 cents a pound ; and a little bit later, within a year, some interests came in and provided that 1 cent for 2 ounces should become 1 cent an ounce, and thus raised the rate 100 per cent. A little bit later the booksellers, who are vpry able men, came in and got special legislation, which brought them back to the pl4 rate of 1 cent for 2 ounces. Then a little bit later than that we had the seed men doing the same thing, and getting their stuff at 1 cent for 2 ounces. Then, gentlemen, in 1885 there came the establishment in this country of the greatest parcels post seryice this world has ever dreamed of or this world has ever known — the great publishers' post of this country, which is just as much ^ merchandise p.o^t ^s the trans- portation of apples or pears or peaches or plums. Those things, that work, is always done for money-making pur-' poses. It is just as much merchandise when the paper is inked ag when it is not inked. Then a little bit later we had the seed men coming in and bringing ' this back to the old uniform rate of 1 ceiit for 2 ounces. That left things in this condition — that the rate on printed books, seeds and bulbs for planting was 8 cents per pound, 1 cent for 2 ounces, and blank books, seeds and bulbs for planting, 16. cents a pound, 1 cent for 1 ounce, just twice as much in the one case as in the other, charging more for paper that was i^ot injjed than for paper that was inked. ' Let me give you a little instance in my experience. My lady friends here referred to it yesterd3.y. I was sending out on one occasion some of our little petition circulars. I put them up and' sent them down to the post office, paying 8 cents a pound. A little bit later I was notified that my packages were being held up for unpaid postage. I went down there. It seemed that they had opened my packages and found out what was in them, and they found these circulars, they found the petitions inked up, and they said these petitions were advertising, and that I would have to pay double, and I paid 16 cents. I will tell a little story in this ponniection, a story told me by the assistant postmaster of Chicago. There was a man down in Florida' that was accustomed to send coconuts up North. PAEOELS POST. 249 At the post office where he was located the postmaster received notice fropi the Third Assistant Postmaster General that those coco- nuts were seeds and bulbs and might go at 8 cents a pound. One day he happened to be in another town and took some of his coco- nuts over there with him, and there the postmaster said the orders were that the coconuts should be charged as merchandise and he would have to pay 16 cents a pound. So, you have one postmaster charging him 16 cents and the other 8 cents. Can you conceive of any greater folly, any greater waste of time and energy than in that kind of business ? To continue, to-day the principle of uniform rates applied to the English penny letter ppst of 1839 is the common law of the postal world and it is so widely applied in the through carload freight tr^fijc of our railway post roads and in the local passenger traffic of our trolley post roads that its general application to the entire busi- ness .&f transportation under the post office would be little more than the establi^Jim®^* of a widespread railway custom as a common law under the law-making power. I h^ve yyith me now right here a report of the Interstate Com- merce Commission dealing with the transportation of beans from California. Now, beans from California under the existing condi- tions are brought to all points east of the Missouri Eiver at a postage- stamp rate, covering all this territory to the east. That is true not only pf beans, but it is true practically of all the fruit products on the California coast. It is also true of manufactures going westward tsom this section of the country. When I was down here in 1905, at the meeting of the great rail- way congress of that year — and by the way, I came to that congress feeling as if I had come down to the twentieth century anniversary of the gathering of the B-oman engineers at the Forum of the Cgesars to lay .down the golden milestone at the ForUm, which was to be the center of the public course at Eome, the post office at Home — -I came here with that feeling, and I found it was a correct feeling. I say that when I came here at that time there was a hearing here at the Capitol, in the Senate. And do you know what the railroad men were at that time supporting ? The railroad men at that hearing asked that thBy be allowed to determine the railway rates of the country, because they were expected to give a postage-stamp rate on their through business, and because they said if that Avere not the case, the agriculture of the "West could never have come into being; neither could there have been any prosperity in the manufactures of the East, because the distance rate would have eaten up all of the profits. The evil in that condition lies in this, that only the men who do the through business, only the men who are sending carload lots, get that postage-stamp rate, and get that commodity rate on all sorts of prod- ucts. The small man, the man engaged in less than carload shipping,, does not get it. He pays double or triple the rates. Neither do those through rates apply, as a general thing, except at great terminals. It is the terminals that get the benefit, the terminals that get the low rate, the low rate for express as well as for the general railroad traffic, and therefore you have it that our people are thrown into the great cities, the industries in those cities getting those low rates, and the workingmeh m those cities held in those places by distance rates, which keep them in abeyance as much as if they were slaves. 250 PABCBLS POST. I am a poor man in the State of New York to-day, an editor, if you please. There is no work for me in New York. There is plenty of work in Bridgeport. I go down to get my railroad rate, and I am charged so much that it would take all I earn to pay for it. The only result is for me to stay where I am and die of starvation, or leave my family and trade in Bridgeport. The Chairmak. You would make a uniform price? Mr. CowTJES. Everywhere. The Chairman. To everybody, for all kinds of distances? Mr. CowLES. Absolutely. I will bring that out a little bit later. I say clearly and distinctly now that this bill that I have introduced here I have introduced because it is an entering wedge; because it means the solution of the railway problem. I do not for one moment strive to hit that as the result. When you are going in for a parcel you are going in as much for live parcels as for dead parcels. If you are going into this business at all, you have to take the whole of it; you can not separate one from the other. It is utterly imprac- ticable. The interests require it. Let me tell you this : I came down here the other day, and at last I was able to buy a mileage book. I paid $20, and I got down here for $4.50. My whole trip when I get back will cost me $9. The Chairman. You got here from where ? Mr. CowLES. From New York. And the whole trip will cost me $9 after I get back. If I had come here under ordinary conditions I would have had to pay $10 for coming down and going back. A workingman coming down here, unable to buy the less expensive ticket, would be paying for the round trip $11.30 — ^$2.25 more for his ride than his wealthy friend who is sitting in the same seat with him. That, gentlemen, is a discrimination that no Democrat can i)ermit for one solitary minute. It is contrary to our principles, and it is prin- ciple we are for — the principle of life. If you had been here at that hearing, when I was, in 1905, you would have heard Mr. Tuttle, of the Boston & Maine Eailroad, tes- tify that not only were the New England industries existing be- cause of the railway parcels rate, on that principle, upon the principle of the postage-stamp rate, which they were giving to New England industries to the West, but he said, further, this, that not only was that true but that proposition had brought ncAV industries into be- ing. You are talking here about small towns. I tell you that the little town of Millinocket, down in Maine, would never have come into being, as Mr. Tuttle said, had he not agreed with the men who built that town that they should have the postage-stamp rate on their paper products to the West. It could not have come into being but for that. You can not market a business successi^Uy in this country or anywhere else unless you have practically a world market to which to send your produce; and you can not get that without a system of uniform rates. J^-u^^ *° ^® further noted that our highest railway authorities attribute our country's growth and prosperity more to their common thin "^Ise °™ ^^*®^ ^" t^^ii" through freight traffic than to any- The United States Post Office covers our whole territory with a system of rates, regardless of distance, regardless of S matter transported, regardless of the volume of a patron's busine^ wftSn PARCELS POST. 251 the capacity of our transport machinery, its only limit is our will. It is for you acting in our behalf, to determine the weight and bulk of our postal parcels, their insurance against loss, damage and delay, and to determine our postal rates based on the most efficient ad- ministration of modern transport machinery. The importance of our wonderful post office has never been ex- pressed more clearly, Mr. Chairman, than by the chairman of this conunittee, Mr. Moon, when on the 28th of January, 1907, he placed his name to this declaration : Upon the postal service more than upon anything else does the general economic as well as the social and political development of the country depend. That is a thing worth while for you to consider here at this hour when the country is in a state of depression, when there are changes in the tariff laws to be made, which I support, when those changes are creating depression and fear. Pass this bill and you will elimi- nate that fear, for you will widen the opportunities tor the people. It does not go as far as it ought, not so far as it will go within, I believe, the time of this Congress, but it will go far to widen the opportunities to get a living, to increase the opportunities for living, and to reduce the cost of living. The fact that even under existing conditions, with the postal ma- chinery of our cities made up of Noah's arks dragged by half-dead horses — I want to show you some of the machinery you have, which we of New York have to be satisfied with. I am not going to. blame you. We must blame ourselves. That is the kind of machinery we have to be satisfied with in the city of New York [exhibiting a photograph]. A walking postman, burdened like a pack-mule, precisely the same kind of machinery that was used in Rome in the year one. Can you expect to do your busi- ness cheaply with that kind of service ? With that sort of machinery, in our metropolitan city of New York ? Then here is another picture of the same [exhibiting photograph] . Oh, I have seen these men ; I have had them come into my office in New York. One of them I remember said to me last summer, " Oh, Mr. Cowles, my wife wanted me to go out last night, but I was so tired, my feet were so swollen, that I had to stay at home and soak them, so that I could be ready for my work the next day." And yet you have got automobiles in New York. And yet we have in New York that very wonderful underground service, coming right straight from the post office, and not using it. I sometimes feel most indignant when I think of it. Then there [exhibiting a photograph] is the other kind of machin- ery that we have. Are we not proud of it — of that kind of machin- ery? Those old Noah's arks ! The Chajehan. Why don't you take those horses off and use auto- mobiles? Mr. CowLES. I was just going to propose that. Old Noah's arks, dragged by half-dead horses, just the same kind of machinery the Caesars used — ^hardly as good, certainly no better. Now, this [exhibiting other photographs] is the machinery I want you to use. I want you to use that in the city of New York. That is, I want you to use that in the residence districts of New York. T want to have you arrange to have traveling post offices with men on 252 PARCELS POST. board, collecting and sorting as the machinery goes on its course. Away back in his time Mr. Wanamaker suggested it. He had it in mind. Of course, the automobile was not here at that time, but he had horsepower in his mind. Then I want to have you to require in cities receptacles at every house conveniently located, and have enough and have them so well arranged that there will be no excuse for men to spend their time ringing doorbells. Men talk about the cost of this service. Five million dollars, says the Postmaster General, were lost in the year 1910, simply because those kind of receptacles were not in use in our great cities. You can require that and should require it ; you are responsible. Don't throw it on our Postmasters General. The Postmaster General simply obeys your orders. You make the law. He does what you tell him to. You are responsible. I am not going to let you get away from it. 1 don't think you want to. No higher dignity was ever left to men than that now left to you to open up this whole world to every human being. I thank God you are here, that you love this service. I believe you are all going to love it. I believe Democrats and Republicans are going to vie together in giving us the best postal service that is on the face of this earth. The Chairman. Have we not got the best postal service on earth now ? Mr. GowLES. No sir; not by a great deal. I will show you that later. We think we have but we have not. Let me go on. The fact that even under existing conditions; with the postal machinery of our cities made up of Noah's arks dragged by half -dead horses, and of walking postmen burdened like pack mules ; with postal clerks wasting a large part of their time in determining whether postal matter is of the first class, taxable at 2 cents an ounce, second class, taxable 1 cent a pound, third class — printed books, raw beans, chestnuts, etc., for planting — ^taxed 1 cent an ounce, 8 cents a pound, or fourth class, styled general merchandise, blank books, pease, beans, chestnuts, etc., for foodytaxed 1 cent an ounce, 16 cents a pound; with over 4,000 rural post wagons restricted to 25-pound loads by reason of the enormous tax of 16 cents a pound levied on the business of the farmers ; with a system of railway-mail pay based on the false principle of weight ; the fact that even with these and countless other wastes, our postal business is not on a paying basis, suggests the pos- sibilities of an up-to-date post-office run on scientific principles. Really, gentlemen, don't you think you show a great deal of intel- ligence in keeping that thing on the statute books. By the way, Mr. Weeks last year proposed that we change this by a new system of charging, and what was it? It required this: 1 ounce, f of a cent; 2 ounces, 1| cents; 3 ounces, ^l cents; 4 ounces, 3 cents. That would require a new currency. Of course, it may be that a new currency may be necessary, because of the high cost of living, but that would be the effect of Mr. Weeks's bill. And one of the first steps in this direction must be the consolida- tion of all mail matter in one class, and for this reason that with parcels of a common weight and bulk, the cost of their transport is regardless of the character of their contents. Any special care that may be demanded by valuable parcels is a matter that may be cov- ered by insurance. In railway transportation, indeed, the fact that rates on freight are the same, whether a parcel weighs one pound or PAKCEDS POST. 253 a hundred pounds, indicates that in this branch of transportation the cost is practically a matter of the space occupied. The classification of products with different transport rates according to their value causes a waste of time and labor at once to the public and the carrier, be that carrier the post office or a railway, that is unendurable. The Chairman. Do you think if the Sultzer bill should become a law, that sugar, for instance, would be carried through the mails ? Mr. CowLES. Sugar will be carried; yes sir; and everything else will be carried through the mails. The Chairman. At 8 cents a pound ? Mr. CowuES. Sugar will be carried on the rural routes under the Sulzer bill. You will have a local service under that bill of 1 pound for 1 cent, one twenty-fourth of a cubic foot. A larger package up to 11 pounds, for a nickle, half a cubic foot, and a larger package, up to 25 pounds, for 10 cents, bulk limit, 1 cubic foot, capacity of an ordinary suit case. I recall that something was said yesterday about the Post Office Department saying it costs 12 cents a pound. I have studied that thing very carefully. You will discover those cars, very many of them, are not half loaded, scarcely quarter loaded. That applies not only to the cars in which the distribution is made, but as to all the other cars. There is absolute waste, and gentlemen, as long ago as 1898, when I was here, summoned here if you please to come before the investigating railway committee of that year, I sat at dinner with the vice president of the Great Northern Eoad, and he was then ad- vocating the substitution of space for weight in determining railway mail, because he said that what cost the railroad was the flying space used, and it did not make any difference whether it was full or empty. Now, then, if you should adopt that rule which has been urged time and time again upon Congress, then with a low rate on merchandise, you would fill your cars up to the full. With your high rates as they are to-day the amount of merchandise handled is only a little over 1 per cent of the rest of the business, and you have your business con- fined to so few articles that you can not fill the cars. We ask to have the rates put down to 8 cents a pound. But I do not expect to see that 8 cents a pound rate last but a mighty short time. I expect to see in a very short time the rates we have adopted for the rural routes extended everywhere else, extended over the whole business of public transportation. And all this can be done at these low rates at a profit with any reasonable use of our modem transportation machinery, using auto- mobiles as you should use them, and in our cities doing what Mr. Beach's father attempted to have done away back in the years when he proposed you should tunnel Broadway and have an arrangement made under which letters should be dropped through the inside of lamp posts, which are hollow, dropped down into the tunnel on movable belts and carried through to the post office. I will put you in contact with engineers who will do that work for you, so that not one single bit of the mail of New York that drops down through the great chutes in our office buildings shall ever be touched until it reaches its destination in the Post Office Department. If you should adopt the suggestion I have made of using auto- mobiles in your cities, then your letters would never go back and be 254 PARCELS POST. handled over three or four times. Suppose for instance I live at number 100 Eighty- fourth Street. I write a letter to my neighbor on One hundred and twenty-fifth Street. My letter then would go straight to my neighbor. It would not be handled over two or three or four different times. And you could have matters so arranged with btanch post offices, and automobiles serving that particular dis- trict that there would be no delay and none of this waste of time and energy that now prevails. Under existing conditions the presence of an ounce of fourth-class matter in a 4-pound packet, otherwise composed of third-class matter, makes the tax on the whole packet 16 cents a pound, while the trans- port cost is the same whatever the contents of the parcel. Such classification tending to induce consignors to ship many lightweight boxes of single classes of merchandise rather than a comparatively few heavy boxes of assorted merchandise, may increase revenues, but any such increase of revenues is far more than counterbalanced by the trouble, inconvenience, and expense incurred in the putting up and handling of the large number of parcels. With an efficient administration of modem transport machinery a common cent-a-pound rate on all mail matter would seem quite as practicable as was the old 3-cent half -ounce rate on letters of the days of the Civil War with the machinery of that era. When, indeed, we bear in mind that even with the present mismanagement of our great post roads the average station-to-station parcels rate is less than $1.08 a ton, a little over 10 cents the average 141-mile haul of a 200-pound parcel, and the average passenger fare is only about 63 cents for the average 33-mile passenger train, a general freight and passenger post with station-to-station rates, 10 cents on 200-pound parcels occupying 4 cubic feet space, 50 cents on ton parcels occupy- ing 40 cubic feet space, with similar low, uniform passenger fares, seems altogether within the possibilities of a scientifically managed postal service, covering the general business of public transportation. Scientific management, says Louis Brandeis, would reduce the ex- penses of our great post roads a million dollars a day. I believe that a million of dollars a day would be saved in our public transport business by the mere substitution of a postal system of " prepaid cost- of-the-service " rates that could be written on a post card, for the existing tens of millions of " what the traffic will bear collect " rates that are at once the despair of railway commissioners and the chief cause of our present industrial evils. I observe again that the adop- tion of a scientific postal system of general transport rates would be little more than the establishment of a widespread railway custom as a common law. You see that law applied on every trolley line in this city. They could not run successfully without it, at least with benefit to the people. It is applied in the great through service of every railway in the United States. It was applied long years ago in the management of milk to New York. In 1888 the Orange County milk men came to the Interstate Commerce Commission, attacking the uniform milk rates, because they said it interfered with their monopoly of the home market of New York — interfered with their power to make the babies of New York pay more for their milk. When that thing came up Judge Cooley said the system of uniform rates was the best possible syistem that could be enacted for all engaged in traffic; that |t in- PABCELS POST. 255 creased consumption and added to production ; that it was the best kind of system that could be devised for all engaged in the traffic. In 1895 they came before the commission again, with Mr. Choate standing by the farmers, and the firni of Messrs. Kogers, Locke, & Milburn representing the railroads. They advocated the uniform rates with every force in their power. Why? They stated that when a milk train was running from Binghamton to New York it did not make a continental's difference m the operation of that train, whether a milk can was put on at Binghamton or Sussex; the cost was the same ; therefore the rate should be the same. The Chairman. You would make the same rate for milk as for wheat? Mr. CowxiES. My rates that I have suggested in my bill are these ^ The Chaikman (interposing) . I am talking about your real rates. Mr. CowLES. I wiU give you my real rates. The rates suggested in my friend's bill here are as follows : Ten cents on any kind of a parcel up to 200 pounds and up to 4 cubic feet of space, for it is space rather than weight that really affects the cost in general trans- portation to-day ; and 50 cents a ton on bulk freight. It does not cost any more whether it is wheat or anything else. The value of the product can be met by insurance and that alone, and there is one spot where the weakness of our present condition exists in our postal service. There is no insurance anywhere. You gentlemen are re- sponsible for the handling of my merchandise when it is intrusted to your care. Every other country on earth insures it against loss or damage except this. Gentlemen, are you not to blame if it is lost or damaged ? Can you not control and handle it as well as the express companies are doing it? Must you use boxes? Can not you use trunks? Can not you use baskets, as they are being used in Germany and as private express companies are doing ? Certainly j'^ou can, and assuredly you will. The cost is the same whatever is in the package ; therefore the rate should be the same. The rates can be made so low that any kind of a product can bear it. You have to .take the very lowest article of freight there is and make it your uniform rate, because under the present system that lowest-article rate is all the traffic will bear. A railroad train, a limited train, is running from Boston to Cali- fornia. It is like the train I came down on from New York. Its • first stop is at "Worcester. You have got to make the rate that is now at Worcester. Three hundred people get on that train, which is capable of carrying 500 people. It stops, a hundred people get off, and a hundred more people get on. They keep getting off and on between the Atlantic and the Pacific coast in the same way. By the time that train has reached the Pacific coast it has handled 6,000 passengers and brought in $6,000. and paid a higher return than we are getting for the use of the railways to-day. When this is done, every place is on a parity with every other place and every person is on a parity with every other person. That is what democracy means. In 1870, when Sumner was speaking in behalf of a low rate, here is how he ended his great speech : Without the post office, where would be that national unit, with its responsi- ble guarantee of equal rights to all, which is dear to our Republic, the system of universal rates, and with Its insurance it guarantees the absolute guaranty of our individuality. 256 PABGBLS POST. The Chairman. Would you charge just the same from here to Baltimore as you would from here to San Francisco ? Mr. CowLES. If you T^'ent on tlie same type of train, yes. If those are limited trains, you are obliged to charge more on limited trains because they stop less often. If you go on an express train it stops every 15 or 20 miles. The Chairman. I am talking about the same kind of trains. Mr. CowLES. Certainly, because it does not cost any more. What costs is the movement of the train, not anything on the train, and for my evidence in that respect I refer you to my friends, the counsel for the Delaware & Lackawanna Railway, or to any other railways in this country. They are obliged to answer it. Further than that, they make their rates on that principle. I was here last winter and heard a great deal of the debates in the Senate. I remember very well when Mr. Smoot spoke of this condition of things under which the rates to San Francisco- fbr carry- ing steel were so much less than to Salt Lake City, and the actual charges for putting up a steel building were some $80,000 more than in San Francisco. That is a discrimination that' you and I do not stand for. Read the whole history brought down before the Interstate Commerce Commission and you will see they are forever disregarding rates. Not only that, but I have their testimoriy for the statement that they always disregard rates when they find it for their convenience. I could read you a statement of that kind that was made by Mr. Haynes, of the American Railway Association, many years ago, practically to that effect. I do not think it is worth while to take your time with it, however. Under a scientifically managed post office, covering the general business of transportation, railroad trains would run from starting point to destination over lines of the lowest grades, least obstructive curves, and shortest distance. Mechanical power, taking the place of man power, in the loading and unloading of parcels of 1. c. 1. freight would cut down the cost of that branch of public transporta- tion, says the efficiency engineer, S. B. Fowler, from 75 cents to 19 cents a ton, and on the basis of over 600,000,000 tons of that charac- ter of freight handled by our railway post roads in 1909, would save over $SOO,000,000 a year. The mechanical handling of carload freight by the Government, cutting the two days of the present system down to one day, would double the capacity of our transport equipment. The railway expert, Harrington Emerson, estimates a possible reduction in the railway fuel bill of $60,000,000 a year and one-half the time spent by locomotives in repair shops. Mr. Gardner. Did I get your estimate right ? Mr. CowLES. What? Mr. Gardner. Who is it that is overpaying $300,000,000 a year by not using machinery to unload? Mr. CowLES. Who is it? Mr. Gardner. Yes. Mr. CowLES. The people doing it. There is a waste in the han- dling of business. That is on all the business of all the railroads, from the nonuse of mechanical appliances in loading and unloading less than carload freight, parcels freight. That is a statement very carefully worked out by Mr. Fowler. I have his document here. PAECELS POST. 257 Mr. Gardner. Just what does he call parcels freight? Mr. CowLES. Anything less than carload. C. 1. is carload; 1. c. 1. is less than carload. That certainly is parcels. Mr. Gardner. Do you know the volume of the freight? Mr. CowuES. I put it at 40 per cent of the total amount of the freight in the country. It is something over 600,000,000 tons. I think the total amount in that year was something over a billion and a half, and 40 per cent would be 600,000,000. Mr. Gardner. "What was the weight of the mail that year? Do you have that at hand. Mr. CowtES. No, sir. I do not think that has anything to do with this particular case. Mr. Gardner. It has all to do with it by illustrating what the Government may have lost. Mr. Cowi^s. I will get at that a little later. Let me finish what I had started to say. The general substitution of electricity for steam will greatly re- duce transport costs. The transformation of coal into electricity at the mines and its transmission by cables will leave our coal cars^ about one-third of our whole freight-car equipment — open for othpr uses. The Railway Age of February 10, 1911, states the present service of the average American freight car as follows : New England: Average daily mileage, 18.8; earnings, $2.53 per day. General average, mileage, 24.8 ; earnings, $2.79 per day. If I could not earn more than that on a freight car I would go out of business. They do not earn more because of the mismanagement of roads ; because they are forever charging the people all they will bear. The Chairman. Do you think this parcels-post bill will overcome that? Mr. CowiES. The parcels-post bill of mine would overcoine it;; yes. That bill is just as inevitable to pass as the sun is to rise to-mor- row, because it is the only way out or the awful transportation chaos in which we are existing to-day. You are to have a customs tariff. Let me tell you the railway tariff is a matter of 10,000 times more importance than your customs tariff, although if I had my way I would pass the customs tariffs; I would abolish them altogether. I have been there. I know whereof I speak, because in the year 1888 I found myself among the ruins of my factories, destroyed by discrimination in local freight rates, and I was forced to sell my mills for $20,000 while they inventoried at $100,000, because no onfe would buy them under those conditions unless they could get them for practically nothing. It was that experience which led me to do . these things. The post office was there, but I had never thought anything about it. The mechanics are a class who ate going to be advanced above all others by this parcels-post bill. I am a New England mechanic — inventors are always poor — an inventor of specialties. Now, an in- ventor of specialties has got to get his parcels to his consumer. The consumer has got to see it before he buys it. You have a cheap par- cels post connected with a cheap telephone service ; then the inventor 3110—11 17 258 PAHCELS POST. will send his little specialty over to the consumer. He sees it. He will buy it if he wants to; and if not, he will send it back. The things will sell themselves. What is the situation to-day. Take inventors of hardware special- ties. I know of one now in the city of New Haven. What has that man to do under present conditions. -He has got to go to Mr. Sargent, or some man who can afford to keep travelers on the road, and then pay Mr. Sargent what he pleases to have him pay for doing that work for him. That is the effect of present conditions. The same thing is true with the farmer as it is with the manu- facturer of specialties. When this thing goes through they will be able to have their chickens and eggs carried, and so forth, as is done in Germany. Don't you care as much for your people as Germany carjes for hers? For 40 years or more the prosperity of Germany has been built up on this service. It has made it possible for them to grow and prosper, and you are going to do it. Eailways are post roads, railway trains are post wagons, and railway rates are post-road taxes, levied upon the people, and to-day those taxes, two and one-half billion of dollars, are levied, without one taxpayer represented upon the tax board, all taxes being made on the principle of what the traffic will bear. I put forward the principle of the cost of the service rendered. I know that is what you are going to stand for, Mr. Lloyd, because of a conversation I had with you just after the recent election. Mr. Gregg. Do you expect to do away with the traveling sales- man? ' Mr. CowLEs. The traveling salesman will be of use in certain classes always. Mr. Gregg. Won't your method eliminate him entirely ? Mr. CowLES. Certainly not. But suppose he does suffer. He will have larger opportunities to get a living. Changes will take place. There may be some inconvenience, but he wiU have larger and wider opportunities for service. Sir. Gregg. Because in many cases the purchaser wants to see the thing he buys, consequently would not the traveling salesmen be still useful? Mr. CowLEs. I think in many ways he would. But in the case of manufactured specialties, changes are taking place and things wiU sell themselves. You do not want to use a thousand traveling sales- men unless they are adding to the wealth of the country., I feel very much in sympathy with the fear of the country mer- chant, just as I do with the fear of my friends in the brick business with reference to efficient methods of handling brick. They will be turned out of employment, my friends, when you and I are turned out of employment, because of improvements in machinery, but do not forget to provide for their getting other employment. It would be cruel not to provide them with other opportunities. Mr. Gregg. It is cruel to turn them out in the first instance. Mr. CowLES. Not necessarily, because of waste. My father was a merchant, and I know a good deal of country business myself. My father recognized that because of conditions the store might become idle, and he took up other business. Circumstances will make those changes; but when you treat others as you treat your own family — that is the law of decent government — men will be very little trouble. PARCELS POST. 259 When the men realize that you and I are their friends, that the Gov- ernment is the association of all of us for the benefit of each of us, instead of what it has been, the association of a few of us for the ex- ploitation of the rest of us, then we will have a bit of heaven upon this earth. Now we can have it. We could not have it before this, because we did not have the means; we do not have the means of differentiation ; we did not have the means of saving ourselves from famine when caused by a summer's flood or heat. When that came, we were deprived of rain. Now we are wonderfully circled by a system of development. We have extended, as it should be, uniform fates everywhere. There will be no famine anywhere. Fear will disappear, war will cease in industry, and each of us will find a love in the service of the Father. The Chairman. You think the parcels post will bring about that development? Mr. CowuES. An extended parcels post will absolutely bring that about. I look forward to the time when we shall have international postal rates with international postal transportation. That is com- mg. And when it comes about there will be a bit of heaven here. The method for bringing our scattered post roads imder the Post Office is very simple. Acting under the post-roads clause of the Con- stitution, Congress may take possession of our existing railroads, guaranteeing a return on their investments equal to the annual return . of the past 10 ye^rs ; assure railway workmen fair wages for reason- able hours of service; give the public low, reasonable rates, deter- mined upon the postal principle — the lowest local rate for each class of service being adopted as the uniform standard rate for all dis- tances — and with the business placed in the hands of an efficient postal department the work will be done. Thenceforth every interest will be protected in its transport rights and transport privileges. There will be ho more transport strikes, for transport employees will be pro- tected in their rights by their Eepresentatives in Congress. In the building of new roads the lands through which the new lines are to pass and to which they will give increased value will be assessed for a part of the cost. The different States in which new roads are built will share the expense. The balance will be pro- vided by the General Government either by the issue of bonds of .'small denominations open to the subscriptions of the ordinary citi- zen or by issues of postal orders redeemable in transport services as well as in gold. Under present conditions the keenest intellects of the country are often engaged in the exploitation of the rest of us. Under the new . regime it will be for the interest of all of us to unite in securing for each of us the best possible system of post roads and their most efficient management. And the benefits of the new system will not -be confined to our own country or even to North America — they will. - extend over the whole earth. - In the International Postal Union we have the germ of a United States of the world, with all mankind joined together by an inter- national postal service, international postal cables, international postal transports — a postal machinery ever increasing in extent and in efficiency until the time shall quickly come when the weakest hand, the m6st timid voice, shall reach to the ends of the earth and command its richest treasures. 260 PARCELS POST. Mr. Chairman. I have given this exposition of our postal future because our little parcels post bills have been rejected in the past on the ground that their enactment into law would necessarily imply the results I have portrayed. The Hon. Eugene F. Loud, of Cali- fornia, chairman of the House Postal Committees of the years 1896 to 1903, even went so far as to advocate the abolition of the Post Office, on the ground that its continuance will necessarily result in its ab- sorption of our railway and express companies, and his savage at- tacks on the cent-a-pound publishers' post were clearly due to the fact that he saw in that service an ever-standing object lesson in favor of its extension over all mail matter. These possibilities of a well- managed post office, however, no longer frighten the American pub- lic, and save our private express companies and their allies, our whole people are a unit to-day in asking that the Sulzer parcels-post bill. House resolution No. 14, of this Congress, shall be immediately enacted into law, and that we shall thus be provided with a domestic parcels service at least, as extended and as cheap as that under which our European friends are now sending their merchandise to us. Note the existing conditions: General merchandise postal rates. From— From Europe to the United States. Weight limit 11 pounds. Foreign rate 8 cents per pound. Weight. Rate, one parcel. Between any 'two points within the United States. Weight limit 4 pounds. Uomestic rate 16 cents per pound. Weight. Rate, one parcel. Norway. Belgium. Italy Do... Germany Austria. . Pounds. 2i 4i 7 11 11 11 SO. 16 .36 .39 .79 .81 .86 PouTids. 2i 4i 17 !11 to. 35 .72 1.12 1.78 1 In two parcels. ' In three parcels. You will surely put a quick end to this hundred per cent postal- tariif protection of the foreigner against the citizen, and, considering that under the existing British post office and American Express Co. agreement, this American Express Co. is now carrying English 11- pound parcels from New York throughout the United States for ^ cents, or at a rate of less than 2} cents a pound, you may venture upon the experiment of providing us as cheap and as extended a service by our- Mutual Express Co., the management of which is now in your hands. And when you discover that our private express companies are now carrying the merchandise of our magazine and newspaper publishers anywhere within the great zone covered by the New England and Middle States in parcels from 1 to 10 pounds at 1 cent a pound you may see your way to give us a similar express service for all merchandise. The Sulzer bill (H. R. 14) now up for your consideration provides for the insurance of all mail matter. In our general service it extends the weight limit from 4 to 11 pounds and consolidates the third and fourth classes of mail matter at 8 cents a PAHCEIiS POST. 261 pound, the old rate of 1874, and the rate at which European merchan- dise is now posted to this country. In our local city services it con- solidates the first, third, and fourth classes of mail matter at 8 cents a pound, the old rate of 1874, and the rate at which European mer- chandise is now posted to this country. In our local city services it consolidates the first and second sealed-parcel service at 4 ounces, 2 cents, each additional 2 ounces 1 cent, the general letter post rate of Great Britain. In its proposed local services on our rural routes it places all mail matter in one class at 1 pound, 1 cent ; 11 pounds, 5 cents; 11 pounds, 10 cents; bulk limit, 1 cubic foot, capacity of an ordinary suit case. This bill speaks for itself; it requires no argument; it has been before the country for a full year and has practically the unanimous support of all classes of our people, save our private express and railway companies and their allies. Gentlemen, the agricultural and laboring classes of this country have long demanded an extended postal express. Last fall the Democracy of New York and Massachusetts placed strong parcels- post planks in their platforms, on which they carried their respective States, and in Massachusetts the Republicans vied with the Demo- crats in their support of an extended parcels post. Up to a short time ago the business interests of our cities, however, gave little at- tention to the post office, but the experience of the express strikes of last fall in New York taught the business men of that great city a lesson never to be forgotten, and since then they have rallied to the support of the Postal Progress League in ever-increasing numbers, and the business men of other cities are now following the lead of New York. I am getting money from them. I do not think I need any certificate of character greater than that given to me by the president of the league when he sent me $400, and these were his words : Hurrah for our folks! Connecticut State Grange just voted you .$200 and would have voted $5,000 for the advancement of this work. Thus does your own State back you up In your work. One word more. Slurs have been thrown out against me that I was a servant of this man or that man. Never since I was born was I the servant of any man. I went into this great work because my experience taught me the fearful dangers of continuing under present systems of transportation, and I have been through fire and water. You will notice the women who were here last night. I had four little women with me in my battle. The last time I saw my daughter Maud she threw her arms around me, and she says, "Papa, we will stand by you, papa." I was coming down here to the meeting I have mentioned, and when I got back she was dead — a martyr, gentlemen — as much a martyr to this cause as a soldier on the battle field. I ask this for the men and the women and the little children of our land; I ask it for the common welfare of our people; I ask it in the name of all that is beautiful and sweet. Cost ! What if it costs us $20,000,000 a year in money, if it added to the common wealth a hundred million ? That is what it will do. It /may be there will be deficits. There were deficits in England when they established the penny post, but the social service was ten thousand times greater. 262 PARCELS POST. Let me give you this one little story of the effect of the old collec- tion system in France. A young soldier was dying in Algiers, and he wrote to his mother that there were some papers in the bureau drawer, and if she could get them and put them in the hands of the Government it might perhaps allow him to come home and get well. When that letter came through over some circuitous route the postage tax was 40 cents. Forty cents to a woman like that was like $1,000,000 with some people. She waited three months to get it, and when she got it the boy was dead. France had lost a soldier and the mother had lost her son. I have suffered, my children have suffered, for the high-letter postage, if you please. I have written less letters, because I was not able to carry on this work with the high rates. Thousands of others are doing the same thing. I beg you in their name to give us this service, and it will also be a means of checking the depression that is here, because you can not change it with your customs tariff with- out affecting some people; and for the purpose of giving hope here, I ask you to do this thing. Now, right here I want to say just one word more. The law under which the President makes his parcels-post convention is your legislation. It is on the statute books as the result of your work. Now, then, under that law the President can, on the 4th of July, if he will, declare a 1-cent-an-ounce parcels post to all the outside., world. If he did, is it not absolutely certain that countries of Europe who are now sending their products over here at 8 cents a pound would gladly do the same for us, and would not that open new op- portunities to our people for the sale of their goods ? A little while ago one of the consuls of this country located in the West Indies stated we could double and treble the sale of our goods if we had an extended parcels-post service. Why charge us 12 cents a pound for sending our goods over to Europe and allowing them to send theirs over here for 8 cents? Now, then, something has been said about the parcels post in England. That parcels service covers the greater part of the civi- lized world to-day. It covers Canada, India, Ceylon, Egypt, and New Zealand. Is our area any bigger than that ? Last year, with all that area, the English Government had a profit of over $20,000,000. England to-day is sending out 3,000,000 parcels a j^ear under her parcels-post service, and bringing into the English Government from 25 to 30 million. We are sending out about one and a half million.' Germany several years ago was sending out in merchandise 12 to 13 million parcels a year. Austria in 1907 sent out 12 or 13 million parcels, and they brought in business to Austria over $60,000,000. Let the President do as I ask to be done. Ask him to declare a 2-cent letter postage to all the world, and a 1 cent parcels post to all the world, and in a year it w'ill double and treble our business through- out the word. My friend has said something about the high wages of America. The American is the lowest paid man on the face of this earth, measured by what he produces. He produces more than any- body else, because he uses machinery with greater economy. In- one thing alone are we behind, and that is in the use of machinery for loading and unloading our cars and the use of loading anS PAKCELS POST. 263 unloading machinery in the postal service. You can give it to us. If I were Postmaster General I would call the finest engineers on this planet and use them in this business. I would do as the Gov- ernment in Panama, get a Goethals, and place him in charge. Then I would put around him — I would take the Interstate Commerce Com- mission and I would put one of those men at the head of each one of the departments into which the country has been divided. Then I would associate with the service the governor of every State, so as to get all parts of the country together, and make this the finest service in the world. Now, gentlemen, I will be glad to answer any questions you have to ask. The Chaieman. We are very much obliged to you for your very interesting address. Appendices to Eemaeks of Mr. James Lewis Cowi^s. [H. R. 14, Sixty-second Congress, first session.] A BILL To reduce postal rates, to improve tlie postal service, and to increase postal revenues. Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the common weight limit of the domestic postal service of the United States is hereby increased to eleven pounds, the common limit of the Universal Postal Union, and that in the general business of the post office the one-cent-an-ounce rate on general mer- chandise---fourth-class mail matter — be, and is hereby, reduced to the third- class rate, one cent for each two dunces or fraction thereof. Sec. 2. That the rate on local letters or sealed parcels posted for delivery within the free-delivery services is hereby determined at two cents on parcels up to four ounces, one cent on each additional two ounces ; at nondelivery offices, one cent for each two ounces. Sec. 3. That all mail matter collected and delivered within the different rural routes of the United States is hereby determined to be in one class, with-, rates, door to door, between the different houses and places of business and the post office or post offices on each route, as follows : On parcels up to one-twenty- fourth of a cubic foot, or one by six by twelve inches in dimensions and up to one pound in weight, one cent ; on larger parcels up to one-half a cubic foot, or six by twelve by twelve inches in dimensions and up to eleven pounds in weight, five cents ; on larger parcels up to one cubic foot, six by twelve by twenty-four inches in dimensions and up to twenty-five pounds in weight, ten cents. No parcel shall be over six feet in length, and in no case shall a carrier be obliged to transport a load of over five hundred pounds. Sec. 4. That on all unregistered prepaid mail matter without declared value an indemnity up to ten dollars shall be paid by the Post Office Department for such actual loss or damage as may occur through the fault of the postal serv- ice, and this without extra charge. Certificates of posting shall be provided on demand. On registered parcels of declared value, and on which the fee for registration, insurance, and postage has been duly prepaid, the Post Office Department shall pay the full value of any direct loss or damage that may occur through the fault of the postal service. The fees for insurance and regis- tration shall be as follows: For registration and insurance up to fifty dollars, ten cents; for each additional fifty dollars, two cents. No claim for compensa- tion will be admitted if not presented within one year after the parcel is posted. Sec. 5. That all acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act are hereby repealed. Sec. 6. That this act shall take effect six months from and after the date of . approval thereof. 264 PAUCBLS POST. [H. B. 8083, Sixty-second Congress, first session.] A bill tor the extension of the Post Office over the entire business of public transportation. Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the Vmted States of America in Congress assembled. That the Interstate Commerce Com- mission be, and is hereby, consolidated with and made a part of the Post Office Department of the United States. This department, thus consolidated, shall consist of the Postmaster General, who shall be the head of the department, and of ten associates, including the present members of the Interstate Com- merce Commission. The salary of each of the members of this department shall be at the rate of ten thousand dollars a year. The present members of the Interstate Commerce Commission shall hold office as members of this de- partment during their terms of office as Interstate Commerce Commissioners, the salary of each member being increased to ten thousand dollars a year. The remaining members of the department and those who may hereafter be chosen members of the department shall be appointed by Congress and their tenure of office shall be at the will of Congress. All contracts made under this act shall be in the name of the United States of America and all such contracts as relate to the guaranteeing of dividends and of interest on railroad or other transport securities, as hereinafter provided, and all contracts mvolving amounts of more than five hundred thousand dollars or binding the Government of the United States for a longer period than three years, shall be approved and signed by at least six of the members of this department. It is, however, hereby provided that minor contracts made under this act involving amounts of not more than five hundred thousand dollars, and contracts not binding the Government of the United States for a longer period than three years, may he approved and signed by the Postmaster General, by either of his ten asso- ciates, or by subordinates duly authorized by a majority of the members of the department. Sec. 2. That the Post Office Department thus consolidated is hereby em- powered and directed to assume the management of and to extend the postal business of the United States as rapidly as in its judgment may appear con- sistent with the public interest under the terms of this act to cover the public transportation of persons, of baggage, of correspondence, of parcels, and of general freight. For this purpose, under conditions hereinafter named and subject to the further provisions of this act, this department is hereby em- powered and directed, for and in behalf of the Government of the United States, to secure the control and management of such railroads and other trans- port agencies as are now engaged in the transportation of the mails of the United States and as are therefore post roads, and also to secure the control and management of such other railroads and other transportation agencies as in the judgment of the department may be needed for the public use under the proposed extension of the postal business. Sec. 3. That this department may make temporary contracts for the use of any railroad or other transport agency which it may find a convenience or necessity in the transaction of its business, such contracts to be for a period not longer than three years. These contracts shall secure to this department the absolute control of railway train schedules and of railway equipment, as well as the determination of all rules as to the handling of ordinary postal matter, of baggage, of parcels, of general freight, and of passengers. Thes? contracts shall secure to the ovniers of such properties an annual return on their investments equal to the average annual return of the ten years preceding the approval of this act, and the same is hereby guaranteed. Sec.' 4. That this department may take permanent possession of any railroad or of any other transport agency which it may deem a public convenience or necessity under the following conditions : First. At least six months' notice shall be given to the president, or, in the absence of the president, to any other officer of the corporation owning such railroad or other transport agency of the intention of the Government of the United States to take possession of the same for the public use, as herein provided. Second. In the case of dividend-paying properties this notice shall be accom- panied by the guaranty of the Post Office Department, made in behalf of the United States of America, that the owners of such properties shall receive an annual return on the bona fide securities representing such properties equal to the average return of the ten years preceding the approval of this act : Pro- vided, however. That where arrangements have been made for the refunding PAKCELS POST. 265 of any class of such securities the intarest guaranteed by the Post Office De- partment in behalf of the Government of the United States shall not be greater than the stated interest on such securities. Third. In the case of railroad or other transport agencies which may be talsen possession of by the Post Office Department and which have only paid the stated interest on their bonds during the ten years preceding the approval of this act, this department, acting in behalf of the United States of America, shall guarantee the continued payment of the stated interest on such bonds. Fourth. Where railroad or other transport agencies which may have been taken possession of by this department have not more than paid expen.ses, or have failed to pay expenses during the ten years preceding the approval of this act, and in the case of railroad or other transport agencies recently built or in process of construction that are taken possession of by thi.s department, such railroads or other transport agencies shall be valued at what this depart- ment finds it would cost to reproduce them, and upon the order of this depart- ment United States bonds, bearing five per centum interest and payable forty years from the date thereof, shall be issued by the Secretary of the United States Treasury to the holders of the bona fide securities representing such properties pro rata. Fifth. Any holder of any securities on which dividends or interest have been guaranteed by this department in behalf of the United States of America may, on reasonable notice, convert his guaranteed securities into United States bonds, bearing five per centum interest, and payable forty years after the date thereof. Sixth. The stoclis and the bonds of railroads or other transport agencies on which dividends or interest are guaranteed by the department of the United States shall be duly registered at the time the properties represented by such stock and bonds are taken possession of by this department, and if at any time such stock and bonds are exchanged for bonds of the United States they shall be duly accounted for and destroyed. Seventh. If, before the passage of this act, the value of any railroad or other transport agency shall be diminished by the sale or assignment of any of the property belonging to such railroad or other transport agency at any time during the ten years preceding the approval of this act, the guaranteed divi- dend on its stock, if the property be a dividend-paying property, shall be estimated on the par value of said stock, less the value of the property thus disposed of, as found by this department, and shall be divided among the stock- holders pro rata. If the railroad or other transport agency thus diminished in value be represented by the bonds only, then the vnlue of the property disposed of at any time during the ten years preceding the approval of this act shall be taken from the par value of the total amount of the said bonds, and the guaranteed Interest shall be estimated on the balance and shall be divided pro rata among the bondholders. This department shall not guarantee dividends or interest on the stock or bonds of car trust or other similar associations. This department may lease equipment needed for the public use, but only for a period of three years; or, it may purchase such equipment, or may construct new equipment for its use, as may seem, in its judgment, for the public interest. Sec. 5. That all the railroad companies in the United States which shall be duly notified by the Post Office Department that their properties are needed for the use of the Government of the United States are hereby required to turn over such properties to this department within five years from the passage of this act, and this department is hereby required to accept the charge of any railroad which, in its judgment, the department can use to the public ad- vantage, within six months after the receipt of an offer of such road to the department under the terms of this act. Sec. 6. That the working period for all employees of this department shall be eight hours a day, or forty-eight hours per week. Overtime shall be paid for at the same rate as for regular time, but overtime may only be allowed in case of delays or accidents, or other extraordinary circumstances. Persons in the employment of railroads taken under the control of the Government under this act shall be continued in service during efficiency and good behavior, so far as the business may require. All other persons applying for employment shall be subject to examination as to fitness for the position sought by the Civil Service Commission, and shall be received on probation for a period of six months, after which they shall be continued in employment during efficiency and good behavior. In so far as the business may require. New positions shall be filled by requisitions of the Postmaster General upon the Civil Service Com- mission. These rules shall apply only to regular employees. Irregular hands 266 PAKCELS POST. may be employed at the convenience of the department. The employees in this department shall be paid for their services at least once in two weeks. Sec. 7. That all transport tolls, letters, and parcels rates, passenger fare, and freight rates must be prepaid. Stamps or checks issued by this depart- ment must be affixed or attached to all letters, parcels, and baggage, and such stamps or checks shall be furnished either directly by the department or at the different Government stations on payment therefor. The postage on gen- eral freight shall be paid either by stamps affixed to the various articles or to the bills of lading, as the department may require. No passes or rebates or reductions of tolls on persons or baggage or on parcels or on general freight shall be granted either to private individuals or to public servants, with the following exceptions: All Government supplies, troops, including equipage, and all publications of the Government shall be transported free an all the lines of transportation under the control of the department. The President and Vice President, the members of the President's Cabinet, the justices of the Supreme Court, and all Federal judges, and the Senators and Representatives of the United States shall be entitled to travel free on all the lines of transportation of the Post Office Department while engaged in the public service. Sec. 8. That the transport tolls levied under this act shall be collected by the duly appointed officials and employees of the Post Office Department, and the funds thus obtained and all other funds collected by this department in the course of its business, shall be duly accounted for and paid over to the duly appointed officials of the United States Treasury. The funds necessary for carrying on the general business of the department under this act shall be pro- vided by appropriations made by Congress. If, however, the Post Office De- partment shall at any time incur any indebtedness under the provisions of this act, the payment of which shall not be otherwise provided for, then the Secre- tary of the Treasury of the United States may, upon the order of the Post Office Department, issue bonds to cover such indebtedness bearing two and one- half per centum interest and payable forty years from the date thereof. Sec. 9. That the passenger service shall be classified as follows : Local post, express, and fast post. The local post shall include railway trains stopping at ;,U stations and trains scheduled to stop for passengers within average distances of fifteen miles. The express post shall include railway trains scheduled to stop tor passengers within average distances of from fifteen to forty miles, and to run at a speed of not less than thirty miles an hour. The fast post shall include railwaj' trains scheduled to stop for passengers at average distances of not less than forty miles, and to run at a speed of not less than forty miles an hour. Kailway passenger cars shall be classified as ordinary cars and palace cars. Passenger fares shall be as follows: By local post, ordinary cars, five cents; per trip; by local post, palace cars, twenty-five cents per trips; by express post, ordinary cars, twenty-five cents per trip; by express post, palace cars, fifty cents per trip; by fast post, ordinary cars, one dollar per trip; by fast post, palace cars, two dollars per trip. Children, except infants in arms, who shall travel free, shall pay the same fare as adults. Those fares are only for continuous trips in one direction. No stop-overs shall be allowed. Travelers beyond the run of the through car or train of departure shall be provided with transfers dated on the day of de- parture, but these transfers shall only be good if used on or before midnight of the day of departure. Holders of transfers must take the first service of their class leaving the transfer station after their arrival. A fast transfer, however, shall entitle the holder to proceed on his journey by either of the different services. An express transfer shall only entitle the holder to proceed by ex- press or local service. Local transfers shall only be good on local services. Passenger Service. sleeping cars. An additional charge shall be made for the use of sleeping cars as follows: Tourists' cars, upper berth, twenty-five cents per night or fraction thereof; tourists' cars, lower berth, thirty-five cents per night or fraction thereof; palace cars, upper berth, seventy-five cents per night or fraction thereof; palace cars, lower berth, one aolliir per night or fraction thereof. The rate of a section shall be twice that for a lower berth. The charge for a drawing-room shall be three times that for a lower berth. Within the limits of the postal electric and automobile service of the post ofBce, additional fares for five per centum to and from the different railway stations and the traveler's domicile shall pay for the traveler's trip, house to house. PARCELS POST. 267 BAGGAGE. Baggage may either be forwarded from house to house under the rules re- lating to ordinary parcels, or it may be checked from the station of departure to the station of destination by the service adopted by the traveler. There shall be no free baggage, except such as the rules of the department may allow the traveler to carry with him in the passenger car. The rate per piece of baggage of regulation size and shape, not above one hundred pounds in weights, placed in a baggage car, shall be five cents per trip, station to station, of the owner. For pieces above one hundred pounds and not over two hundred pounds, the charge shall be ten cents. For pieces above two hundred pounds, the charge shall be ten cents for each hundred pounds or fraction thereof. The department may limit the size and weight of pieces which it will carry as baggage over two hundred pounds. Bicycles may be carried as baggage, subject to a toll of five cents per trip of the owner. Any baggage not called for within twenty-four hours after its arrival at a Government station shall be charged a demurrage tax of ten cents for each succeeding twenty-four hours or fraction thereof. Parcels, within dimensions to be determined by the Post Office Department, shall be cared for by the station agents for one cent each for the first twenty- four hours, and for ten cents per parcel for each succeeding twenty-four hours or fraction thereof. SPECIAL PASSENGER SERVICE. AH special services for cars and engines shall be at the convenience of the department. The tax levied for such service may be determined either by time or by distance, but in each case that method of taxation shall be applied which shall result in the largest revenues for the department. LOCOMOTIVES OR MOTOR CARS IN SPECIAL SERVICE. The tax for the use of a passenger locomotive car or of an electric motor cai on any special service shall be eight dollars an hour or thirty cents a mile. No locomotive or electric motor car shall be chartered on any special service for less than twenty-five dollars. Such service shall include the entire round trip of the iocomotive or motor car from the home station to the return thereto. SPECIAL-SERVICE TRAINS. On special-service trains the rates for the use of ordinary cars shall be thirty dollars per day or one-half a cent per mile per seat up to the full capacity of the car. The rates for palace cars of all descriptions, including sleepers, shall be thirty-five dollars per day or forty cents per car mile. No train shall be chartered for less than fifty dollars for the shortest service or for less than one hundred and sixty dollars per day, or for less than one dollar and fifty cents per train mile. Where sleepers are used there shall be an extra charge for berths equal to the charge on regular trains. The time and distance covered by these rates shall include the entire round trip of the train. SPECIAL OARS ON EEGULAR TRAINS. The exclusive use of passenger cars on regular trains may be secured by the payment of a tax of thirty cents a mile or thirty dollars a day for the use of an ordinary car and of forty cents a mile or thirty-five dollars a day for the use of palace cars, sleepers, and the like for the entire round trip of the car. Where sleepers are used there shall be an extra charge for berths equal to the rates on regular trains. PRIVATE CARS ON REGULAR TRAINS. Private cars, built and equipped according to department rules, may be hauled at the convenience of the department at rates charged for the haul of similar department cars — thirty cents a mile for cars similar to ordinary cars and forty cents a mile for palace cars. Private cars repaired in department shops shall pay twenty per centum more than the cost of a similar service done to department cars. Private cars on department sidetracks shall pay a demurrage tax of ten cents an hour for the occupancy of such tracks. 268 PAECEIiS POST. Parcels Service, parcels, sealed or unsealed, collected and delivered doob to door. Sec. 10. That postal cards and parcels, sealed or unsealed, shall be forwarded by the fastest services within the control of the Post OflBce Department. Wher- ever the collection and delivery service is provided with horse or power de- livery, postal cards and parcels shall be collected and delivered within the limits of the ordinary postal delivery at rates hereafter determined, the number of collections and deliveries per day or per week to be at the discretion of the department. Where the collection and delivery service is by foot post no parcels will be collected and delivered over four pounds in weight, and larger parcels must be delivered and collected at the nearest post office. The rates shall be as follows: On parcels up to one pound and one twenty- fourth of a cubic foot in dimensions, one by six by twelve inches, one cent; on larger parcels up to five pounds and up to one-fourth of a cubic foot in dimen- sions, two cents; on larger parcels up to eleven pounds in weight and to one- half a cubic foot in dimensions, five cents ; on larger parcels up to thirty pounds, or one cubic foot in dimensions, ten cents ; on larger parcels up to sixty pounds, one and one-half cubic feet in dimensions, fifteen cents ; on larger parcels up to one hundred pounds, two cubic feet in dimensions, twenty cents ; on larger par- cels up to two hundred pounds, four cubic feet in dimensions, the ordinary barrel, twenty-five cents, with an additional rate of five cents for each addi- tional thirty pounds, or increase in dimensions of one cubic foot. These parcels rates shall Include baggage, bicycles, books, newspapers, and all kinds of mer- chandise not of a deleterious character, the weight limit, dimensions, and method of packing to be determined by the department. Freight. station to station service, parcels sealed ob ttnsealed. Sec 11. That all freight transported by the Post Office Department shall con- form, both as to character and as to the form in which it is packed, to the gen- eral laws of the United States and to the rules of the department. The rates per haul, station to station, within the limits of the service of the Post Office Department of the United States, including loading and unloading at the sta- tions, shall be as follows: On parcels freight, ten cents for each two hundred pounds or four cubic feet space ; on bulk, freight, fifty cents per ton or forty cubic feet space. No consignment of freight shall be received for less than ten cents. The rates shall be the same whether the loading and the unloading shall be done by the Post Office Department or by shippers and consignees. LOCAL FREIGHT. The time for loading and for unloading shall be eight hours of daylight. Tne time for transportation for each one hundred miles or part thereof in local service shall be twelve hours ; for each additional one hundred and fifty miles or fraction thereof, twelve hours. EXPRESS FREIGHT. The time for transportation of express freight shall be twenty-four hours for each zone of two hundred miles; on fast freight, twenty-four hours for each zone of three hundred miles. Failure on the part of the department to deliver goods in accordance with these schedules shall be attended with the forfeiture for each twenty-fmir hours' delay of five per centum of the postage. DEMURRAGE. Shippers and consignees shall be allowed eight hours of daylight for loading and unloading carload freight, after which there shall be a demurrage tax of ten cents an hour, the demurrage time to be considered from the time the car is acceptable to shipper or consignee after due notice. The demurrage on cars held by shippers or consignees longer than forty-eight hours shall be fifty cents an huur. Cars held by shippers or consignees longer than ninety-six hours may be taken possession of by the department, and if there be any freight on board, such freight may be unloaded by the department at the PAUCBLS POST. 269 nearest station at the expense of the shipper or consignee. All freight not taken from the station within twenty-four hours after notice of its urrival shall be subject to a storage charge, to be determined by the department rules duly published, or the department may deliver the same at the consignee's address or at the address of the shipper, charging the cost of delivery. The rates on freight handled by shippers and consignees shall be the same as that paid in case the cars are loaded and unloaded by the department and for loads up to the capacity of the cars used. On cars heated in winter and cooled in summer there may be an extra freight charge to cover the cost of the extra service. PRIVATE FEEIGHT CAES. The rates charged for the transport of private freight cars of the size and capacity of standard department cars, whether full or empty, shall be the same as that charged for a loaded deisartment car of a similar character in the same class of service. All repairs made to private cars by the department shall be charged twenty per centum above the cost of a similar service to ii depart- ment car. All private freight cars shall conform to department rules as to form, size, weight, and equipment; and the department shall be at liberty at any time, after due notice, to take possession of such cars on payment to the owner of what the department finds to be the value of such cars. Private freight cars shall be subject to a demurrage tax of five cents an hour for delay on Government sidetracks for a longer period than twenty-four hours. Private cars employed in the conveyance of theatrical troups and circuses may be attached to freight trains and hauled at regular carload rates, but the rate shall be the same, whether the car be full or empty. '' Sec. 12. That the use of the post oflice for the transportation of ordinary postal matter, or for the transportation of persons, baggage, or general freight shall be at the risk of the correspondent, of the traveler, and of the owner of the freight transported. It is hereby expressly provided that the Post Office Department shall not incur any legal liability above ten dollars for the loss or damage-Of unregistered correspondence, baggage, or freight, or above one hun- dred dollars for injury to the person of the traveler, either en route or at stations, or for any loss or damage due to delay by reason of acceptance of the tolls levied, except as hereinbefore provided. On registered parcels of declared value the payment of a registry fee of five cents shall carry insurance up to fifty dollars, and the payment of an additional fee of five cents for each additional one hundred dollars shall carry insurance up to the full value of the registered parcel. A fee of five cents per day will insure the traveler against loss or damage up to one thousand dollars and an additional fee of five cents for each additional thousand dollars will carry insur- ance up to ten thousand dollars. Sec. 13. That all foreign railroads whose lines cross any portion of the United States shall be subject to the rules and regulations of this act in so far as relates to business in the United States or between the United States and other States. Sec. 14. That the postal territory of the United States is hereby divided into ten postal districts, corresponding with the ten groups into which the railroad territory of the United States has been divided by he Interstate Commerce Commission. Each of the ten associates of the Postmaster General in the Post Office Department of the United States shall be at the head of and responsible for the management of the postal business of one of these postal districts. The Territory of Alaska is hereby added to district numbered ten. Each of these postal districts is hereby subdi\ided into as many postal divisions as there are States and Territories within such postal district. Each postal division shall be under the management of a duly appointed postal director, who shall be responsible to the head of his postal district for the faithful management of tlie postal business within his jurisdiction. In cases where, in the judgment of the Post Office Department, the successful management of the postal business requires more than one postal director in a State or Territory, such State or Territory shall be divided into two or more postal divisions, each of which shall be under the control of its duly appointed postal director. Postal directors shall be expert in the business, transportation, and in the handling of postal matter, and their qualifications shall be vouched for by the Civil Service Com- mission. The salary of a postal director shall be five thousand dollars a year. In addition to his general duties, each postal director shall be the post- master and head of the United States postal savings bank of the town m which it is located and shall receive and disburse under the general direction of the 270 PABCEI^. POST. Post Office Department not only such funds as may be deposited by private in- dividuals, but also such funds as may be collected and paid out for the use of and support of the postal machinery vi^ithin his postal division. The payments of dividends on railway stock and interest on raiway bonds guaranteed by the Post Office Department under this act may also be made through these di- visional postal savings banks. Postal directors shall choose their subordinates, the heads of the various postal stations within their respective divisions, and other employees from a list of persons found eligible for such position by the Civil Service Commission. Such subordinate postal employees shall hold office during efficiency in so far as the demands of the business may require. Each postal director shall be the judge as to the efficiency of his subordinates, but any subordinate dismissed by a postal director shall be entitled to an appeal and hearing by a duly constituted board of review appointed by the Post Office Department. A Common One-Cent- a-Pound Postal Rate. [Postal Progress, New York, August, 1907. By James L. Cowles.] A CLIPPING FBOM "AMERICAN INDUSTKIES." The organ of the National Association of Manufacturers, issue of June 15, 1907. — At its recent convention in New York, the National Association of Manufacturers demanded a thorough and radical reform in many branches of the postal service. That any reform in postal rates must necessarily be radical became clear to me as long ago as 1896, when the chairman of the House Postal Committee of Congress, Mr. Loud, of California, attacked the cent-a- pound rate of the second-class service on the ground that the continued exis- tence of the post office implied its extension over the whole business of the public transportation and transmission, and that the unlimited cent-a-pound post of the periodical publishers was a most dangerous 6bject lesson as to a practical solution of the railroad problem. Mr. Loud saw that the time was near at hand when the grand issue before the people of this country would be as to whether the railroads should swallow the post office or the post office should swallow the railroads, and as the first step toward the swallowing of the post office by the railroads he proposed the abolition of the cent-a-pound publishers post. Realizing this truth, I fought Mr. Loud to the best of my ability, and in 1898 Mr. Baldwin, of the Chicago, Burlington & Qulncy Railroad, attributed his final defeat very largely to my postal articles in the Outlook, of New York, and to my book "A General Freight and Passenger Post." The evil, in the cent-a-pound publishers' post is its UrhitdtionS. — Even in 1898, I was convinced that the evil in the cent-a-pound publishers' post was in its limitations rather than in its extent, and that with a reasonable use of our transport machinery, a common cent-a-pound rate would be practicable on all classes of mall matter. I realized, moreover, that the power which had so persistently sought to in- crease the rates of the second-class service, if not to abolish it, would quite as persistently oppose any reduction in the rates on any class of mail matter. Last summer, Judge Goebel, of the House Postal Committee of the Fifty-ninth Congress, confirmed this belief. In the course of a conference at his office in Cincinnati, Judge Goebel informed me that our proposed 6ill for the consolida- tion of third and fourth-class mail matter, at the old uniform ra'te of 1874, 1 cent for each 2 ounces, 8 cents a pound, was only an entering' wedge for an 11-pound parcels post, a 50-pound parcels post, a 200-pound parcels post, a general freight and passenger post, and, said he, " we are opposed to it. We believe that the post office should be confined to the transmission of intelli- gence." It will be quite as difficult to pass a bill through Congress providing 'for a four-pound parcels post at 8 cents a pound as to pass a bill consolidating all classes of mail matter at a rate of 1 cent a pound. Our book publishers now send their manufactures — printed books— around the world in 2-ounce parcels for 1 cent; 1-pound parcels for 8 cents. That the consolidation of the first, third, and fourth classes of mill matter— letters, books, general merchandise, matter written or unwritten, sealed or unsealed In parcels, say up to 11 pounds at the book publisher's' rate, 1 cent for each PARCELS POST. 271 2 ounces, 8 cents a pound would be a great public benefit, requires no argument That such a service could be made to pay Its way Is, I think, clearly evident. The post ofl5ce would get an immense local business that now goes to private transport agencies. England has long enjoyed a letter rate of 2 cents for the first 4 ounces, 1 cent for each additional 2 ounces, and the business has proved very profitable. But while we are about it, why not consolidate all classes of mail matter at the common rate of 1 cent a pound, now enjoyed by newspaper iuid periodical publishers, and by news agents? Neither the public nor the publishers can afford to have the publishers' rate Increased. It costs practically the same to handle one kind of mail matter as another. What is good for the publishers is good for us. It is quite as important for us to get the advertised goods as to get the advertisements, and newspapers/ and magazines are largely made up of advertisements. Bread, meat, clothes, and other manufactured goods are quite as important to us as our newspapers and our magazines, and with a reasonable use of our transport machinery, machinery about to be run by electricity at a half or a third the cost of steam, there is every reason to believe that a common cent-a-pound rate on all mail matter could be made to pay the cost of the service rendered. The mere consolidation of the different classes of mail matter would relieve the postal authorities of an immense amount of annoyance and needless labor, and would largely reduce the cost of the business. With stationary post oflices established, as they should be, at railway stations; with traveling post offices with men on board collecting, assorting, delivering door to door, as the machine goes on its course, and connecting the stationary post offices with the hoines and factories of the people ; with postal cars owned by the post office, or hired at so much a mile, full or empty, so much a mile regardless of the weight carried, with rural post wagons doing an old post-coach business on the rural post routes at reasonable rates (a saving is possible on this one branch of the business alone of fully $30,000,000 a year) ; and finally with a post office run solely in the public interests, and on business principles, we may well expect that a common cent-a-pound postal rate would more than pay the cost of the service rendered. PRESENT POSTAL BATES. Per pound. Sealed or written matter $0. 32 General merchandise, jirinted matter, blank books, seeds, etc., cooked chestnuts for food ' .16 Printed books, seeds, etc., for planting, raw chestnuts . 08 Magazines and newspapers mailed by the public .04 Magazines and newspapers mailed by printer to publishers .08 Magazines and newspapers mailed by publisliers and news agents to towns outside for publication .01 Weeklies mailed by publishers and news dealers to subscribers either in .or out of town of publication, and whether delivered at post offices or ■ by carriers [ -01 Newspapers, other than weeklies, without regard to weight, and periodi- cals not exceeding 2 ounces in weight, mailed by publishers and news dealers for local delivery by carriers, each .01 Periodicals, over 2 ounces, each -02 Papers delivered at post offices within county of publication, one copy . to each subscriber F^'ee Etc., etc., etc. DEVELOPMENTS IN THE PARCELS POST CAMPAIGN. [A clipping from Iron Age, of July 4, 1907.] WASHINGTON, D. C, JuJy 2, 1901. Two important developments in the campai!,'n of the jiarcels post pronioters have recently occurred that should have the very careful attention not only of hardware retailers, but of the jobbers and manufacturers as well. Ttie support which the parcels post proposition has recently received in certain journalistic quarters has given a decided impetus to the movement, but is fully explained by the developments referred to. One cent per pound for all classes of postal matter.— The Postal Progress League, which, alhtough working spasmodically, has constituted the head and 272 PAECELS POST. front of the pai-eels-post crusade for the past half dozen years, has adopted a new policy, conceived with no little ingenuity, to enlist the aid of publishers of all classes of periodicals, and especially of so-called house organs, without regard to the particular line of trade in which they may be interested. These publishers, it is well known, have been much disturbed by the agitation in the Post Office Department, and in Congress, of a plan designed to increase the rate of postage on printed matter. The subject of the proper classification for postage of all newspapers and periodicals is now in the hands of a com- mission. An appeaJ to selfish interest. — At this psychological moment, which has un- doubtedly been well chosen, an appeal has been promulgated to all the pub- lishers of the country to unite in a movement to retain the publisher's rate of 1 cent per pound by urging upon Congress the consolidation of all postal matter into one great class, at the uniform rate of 1 cent for each 16 ounces or less. Such a plan would enable the publisher to keep his present low rate; it would more than realize the desires of those who have been working for the consolidation of third and fourth class mail matter at the rate of 8 cents per pound, and finally it would bestow upon the general public the great boon of penny postage. It would be difficult to devise a more comprehensive or specious scheme, appealing at once to the selfish interests of many classes. In this appeal it is declared that for nearly 10 years " the evil in the cent-a-pound publishers' post was in its limitation rather than in its extent, and that with a reasonable use of our transport machinery a common cent-a-pound rate would be practicable on all classes of mail matter." Up to the present, how- ever, the time has not come, it is stated, to urge this propaganda, but it is now put forth in part as follows: The argument. — Our book publishers now send their manufactures — printed books — around the world in 2-ounce parcels for 1 cent, 1-pound parcels for 8 cents. That the consolidation of the first, third, and fourth classes of mail matter, letters, books, general merchandise, matter written or unwritten, sealed or unsealed, in parcels, say up to 11 pounds, at the book publishers' rate, 1 cent for each 2 ounces, 8 cents a pound, would be a great public benefit, requires no argument. That such a service could be made to pay its way, Is, we think, clearly evident. The post office would get an immense local business that now goes to private transport agencies. England has long enjoyed a letter rate of 2 cents for the first 4 ounces, 1 cent for each additional 2 ounces, and the business has proved very profitable. But while we are about it, why not consolidate all classes of mail matter at the common rate of 1 cent a pound, now enjoyed by newspaper and periodical publishers, and by news agents? Neither the public nor the publishers can afford to have the publishers' rate increased. It costs practically the same to handle one kind of mail matter as another. What is good for the publishers is good for us. It is quite as important for us to get the advertised goods as to get the advertisements, and newspapers and magazines are largely made up of advertisements. Bread, meat, clothes, and other manufactured goods are quite as important to lis as our newspapers and our magazines, and with a reasonable use of our transport machinery, machinery about to be run by electricity at a half or third the cost of steam, there is every reason to believe that a common cent-a-pound rate on all mail matter could be made to pay the cost of the service rendered. Glaring fallacies. — It does not require any great perspicacity to analyze the Postal Progress League's argument and expose its most glaring fallacies. Its declaration that the British letter rate of 2 cents for the first 4 ounces " has proven very profitable " is notoriously false, and for the reason that the book- Iveeping methods of the British postal system are such that it has been impos- sible to determine whether any particular rate is profitable or unprofitable. This fact has frequently been developed in connection with efforts made to ascertain the cost nt operating the parcels-post system in England. The state- njent that " it costs practically the same to handle one kind of mail matter MS another '' is ridiculously false. A comparison of the cost of transporting and distributing 100 pounds of half-ounce letters, for example, with the cost of sending 100 pounds of periodicals in bulk from the publisher to a news agent at once exposes the absurdity of this contention. It is obvious, however, that ilr. Cowles makes his appeal to the self-interest rather than the unbiased judgment of the publishers, and in some quarters his arguments will have to be reckoned with. The second development referred to is a movement in which are interested a considerable number of drug manufacturers who sell direct to the retail PARCELS POST. 273 trade and whose policy is to entirely eliminate the jobber. A representative of this interest, F. F. Ingram, a manufacturfng druggist of Detroit, has spent seTeral days in Washington during the past fortnight collecting data for use at the coming session of Congress. Mr. Ingram says that he has been making a close study of the domestic parcels-post systems abroad, and especially that 6f Gertoftny, and has reached the conclusion that the introduction of the insti- tution in the United States would be of great advantage to the small mer- elant and would enable him not only to compete with the giant mail-order houses, but ultimately to drive them out of business. This is a surprising state- ment, and Mr. Ingram concedes that its realization would involve important changes in the business methods now pursued by retailers. How it works in (Germany. — He concedes that the mail-order houses are now making great progress at the expense of the small merchant and that the con- sumer is more than ever ready to become the victim of the flamboyant cata- \og\je. Continuing, Mr. Ingram says: But how does it work in Germany? Just the other way. There the depart- ment or mail-order house has not made any headway in the direction of put- ting the local merchant out of business. Why? Because in that country the local merchant has the benefit of the parcels post, enabling him to get (Juick action on all sorts of goods from his wholesalers, and the result is that in that country he is the one who handles the catalogues. And he is not confined to one, either. Go into any country store in Germany and you will find a dozen or more catalogues, covering every variety of goods made. The prices are as low as the customer could possibly get from any mail- order house. What does the customer do? Order from some one in the city direct? Not much. He says to himself, "Here is a case where, if I order direct and anything goes wrong with the order, I will be the loser, or at least I may be. If 1 order from my friend, the local dealer, and the money is lost or anything else happens to the order, he will be the loser. Therefore I will order from the local man." This is not guesswork. We know it is the way it works in Germany. In Germany the local dealer gets the 5 per cent profit offered by the mail-order house, and he does the busiti6ss and is prosperous. Of course he keeps a stock of goods, but It is no larger than the stock in a similar store here, perhaps not so large. But he is in touch with his wholesalers, who will see that he is pro- tected and that no mail-order house can undersell him. He can telephone at any time to the wholesaler for anything he wants and it is sent by the first means at hand. If it is a small article, the parcels post takes it. If it weighs too much for the mails, it has to go by other means, the same as in the United States. But it is in the popularity of his store through his means of satisfying his customers that he makes his money and in the infinite variety of small articles he can have sent to anybody at short notice. He has several wholesaleirs behind him, of course. Thus, if one can not send what is wanted, another can, and he is never at a loss. He can meet the demands the same as if his store was as big and well equipped as any of the largest department stores in the City. Magnitude of the tasJc appreciated. — The manufacturers who are pushing the parcels-post project on this basis state that they realize the magnitude of the task they have undertaken, and that they are not at all certain that they will be able to carry it through at the coming session of Congress. They say that "there are many converts to be made in this country," and they may not be able to make them in time to get action next winter. They intend to keep at work, however, declaring that they do not doubt that " if we had the parcels post as liberally as they have it in Germany, we would have the same pros- perity among the small country merchants and the same convenience for everybody. W. L. C. I EEPLT To lEON AGE CBITICISM OF A COMMON l-CENT-A-POtTND POSTAL BATE. The Iron Age is the best kind of evidence that a cent-a-pound postal rate is very profitable to those who enjoy It, and it may be that the Iron Age is a little hasty in pronouncing the statement false that the iBnglish 2-cent 4-ounce letter rate has proven very ptfofltable to the English people. 3110-11 18 274 PARCELS POST. The fact that the English Government honored Queen Victoria's diamond jubilee June 22, 1897, by making it the occasion for inaugurating this new service for the advancement of the English home, these widened facilities for keeping England's sons and daughters within the voice of the mother, this fact alone is sufficient evidence that the English statesmen of that time believed the new service would be profitable. That they were not mistaken the following figures prove: Old penny-letter post, 2 cents, 1 ounce ; 3 cents, 2 ounces ; 4 cents, 4 ounces ; 5 cents, 6 ounces ; 8 cents, 8 ounces ; penny-letter post of 1897, 2 cents, 4 ounces ; 1 cent each additional 2 ounces. Letters delivered, im United Kingdom. Years. Per capita. Total. Kevenue at 2 cents per letter. 1888-9 42 48 61 1,558,100,000 1,893,000,000 2,624,600,000 $31,162,000 1896-7 37,860,000 1904-5 . ... 52,492,000 Increase in nurnber of letters. Per capita. Total. Increase in revenues. Eight years previous to Queen's Jubilee, 1889 to 1897 6 13 334,900,000 731,600,000 36,698,000 14,632,000 The post-office reports as to the net revenue of the English postal service for the years 1888-89, 1896-97, and 1904-5 give similar, though less striking, results (assuming $5 equal to an English pound) : 1888-89 $16, 247, 160 1896-97 19, 502, 895 1904-5 24, 095, 965 Increase during the interval 1888-89 to 1896-97, $3,255,735. Increase during the interval 1896-97 to 1904^5, $4,593,070. During the eight years following the inauguration of the 2-cent 4-ounce Eng- lish letter post the increase at once in the number of letters delivered per head of the population and as a total, as well as the increase in the letter revenues estimated at but 2 cents a letter, was more than double that of the previous eight years. The reports as to the net revenues of the English postal service ■confirm our statement that the English 2-cent 4-ounce letter post has been a source of profit to the English Government. Even the Iron Age will allow that it has been profitable to the men, women, and children of England. Cost of handling different classes of mail matter practically the same. — Our contention that the cost of handling the different classes of mail matter is practically the same is hardly disproved by the Iron Age comparison of the magazine bulk business — publisher to newsdealer — with the retail letter serv- ice — writer to the addressee; The two services are not comparable. We contend that where the post office does the whole business of collecting, assorting, transporting, and distributing the difCerent pieces of mail matter, post office to the addressee, or door to door, the cost of the service is practically the same in all cases. It would be exceedingly difficult to discover any differ- ence in the cost of the postage of a hundred-pound parcel of letters and of a hundred-pound parcel of magazines from one address to another; it would be equally difficult to discover any difference in the cost of the postagei of the different letters and magazines making up a hundred pounds of mail matter to their different addresses. The transport of a hundred pounds of the different clas-ses of mail matter by mail wagon or mail car is precisely the same. There are heavy publications, like the Iron Age, weighing 2 or 3 pounds; there are light publications weighing only 2 or 3 ounces. Taking them all to- gether, the cost of the publishers' service and that of the other classes of mail PARCELS POST. 275 matter differs very little. In many post offices, where the assorting and distri- bution are done by the same postal force, it would be ridiculous to attempt discovering the difference in the cost of handling the different classes of mail matter. If there are more letters than magazines to the pound, the heavier weight of the magazine goes far to counterbalance the possible greater cost of handling the larger number of letters. In any case, once a common cent-a- pound rate enables us to post our sealed packages containing a letter, a bill, and a piece of ordinary merchandise on the same terms as magazines and newspapers— the merchandise of the publishers— are posted, there will be very little difference in weight between the different packages of the publishers' merchandise and common merchandise, and all possible differences in favor of the less cost of the heavier product will have disappeared. Objections answered. — If, perchance, the common cent-a-pound service for a time failed to meet its cost, the benefits to the public would more than offset any possible deficiency in the postal revenues. To the objection that our postal machinery is unfitted to meet the demands of such a service, we reply : It is hardly reasonable to say that a machine capable of handling a 2i-pound magazine is incapable of handling a pound sealed package of other mer- chandise. The horse-wagon post of our rural service will find no difficulty In handling sealed packets up to 11 pounds. Within our city foot-post service the weight per parcel may continue to be limited to 4 pounds, possibly less, until the automobile is substituted for our city foot posts. In the service post office to post office it would seem to be quite as practicable to handle sealed packages regardless of their weight or bulk as to perform the same service for unsealed magazines and newspapers. Germany has a 1-cent 8-ounce local letter service and a 6-cent 11-pound local merchandise service, both covering distances up to 46 miles. The German Gov- ernment finds no difficulty in handling the one business or the other. It pro- vides a light, swift vehicle for the quick postal transport of small parcels and a slower, stronger vehicle follows with the heavier parcels. A common cent-a-pov/nd postal rate and the hardware retailers, joiiers, and manufacturers. — The issue of the Iron Age of July 4 weighs 2i pounds and consists of 380 pages of printed matter, 304 of which are advertise- ments ; 76, written matter. On its title page we find this statement : " Pub- lished every Thursday by David Williams Co., 14^16 Park Place, New York." On the thirty-second page of written matter we find this other statement: "Entered at the New York post office as second-class mail matter." These statements, taken together, mean that the manufacturers of the Iron Age, to- gether with other manufacturers of similar products, receive from the United States Congress the special privilege of having their merchandise posted from the post office of the town in which their various factories are located ; in quan- tities, unlimited in either weight or bulk, post office to post office; single pieces . to the door of the addressee, wherever there is a free delivery service ; through- out the United States, Mexico, the Hawaiian and Philippine Islands, and even to Shanghai, China, at a uniform rate of 1 cent a pound. The cost to the David Williams Co. for the postage of their output of July 4 was 2-i cents per piece of merchandise of two and a quarter pounds. New York to San Francisco, Mexico, Manila, Honolulu, and to Shanghai, China. This special cent-a-pound transport rate, guaranteed to the manufacturers of the Iron Age, to Harper's Magazine, the Century, Scribner's, McClure's, and others, has also this result, viz, in order to secure for themselves some of this profitable trade the express companies advertise for the privilege of transport- ing the Iron Age, Harper's, the Century, and other merchandise of the same character duly entered as second-class mail matter, door to door, collect and deliver, anywhere within the two great zones into which the United States is divided by the Ohio-Pennsylvania State line : Parcels up to 10 pounds, 10 cents. Larger parcels, a pound, 1 cent. What is good for the Iron Age is good for its patrons. — The wonderful pros- perity of the David Williams Co. and of the retail and wholesale dealers in their merchandise is a striking object lesson as to what would be the effect upon the business of the hardware retailers, jobbers, and manufacturers, as well as to the rest of the public, if Congress should extend to their products the postal privileges and protection now confined to the products of the David Williams Co. and other publishers. It requires no argument to prove that it would be a great benefit to the 10,000 manufacturers who advertise in the columns of the Iron Age to get 276 PARCELS POST. their products to 'their customers on the same terms that the Iron Age carries their advertisements. It is a great thing to know from year's end to year's end just what you must pay for the transport of your goods to your customer and to have that rate uniform, regardless of distance and regardless of the volume of your business, and it is a greater thing to know that whenever your trans- port rate is to be changed you will have a. hand in determining the new rate through your Representatives in Congress, and that whenever there is a change the rate will be reduced as improvements are made in the machinery of trans- portation. Transport rate on letters always determined iH Oangress. Since 1885 trans- port rates on magasines and newspapers determined by Congress at 1 cent a pound. — From the foundation of our Republic to this day Congress has always stood between the citizen and the carrier, saying to the one, " We will determine your postage"; to the other, "We will determine your mail pay." In 1885 this protection of the citizen against the carrier was extended to magazines and newspapers. It is surely time that this same protection was extended to all classes of merchandise. A FREIGHT, PASSENGER, AND INTELLIGENCE POST THE PUBLIC NEED. In his article " Ethics of corporate management," In the Korth American Review of January 18, 1907, President Hadley, of Yale University, said that the demands of the various railway commissions for increased power in order to enable them to cope with the diflSculties of the railroad problem reminded him of the minister in the country church who said, " O, Lord, we pray for power ; O, Lord, we pray for power," until an old deacon, unable to contain himself, interrupted, " Tain't power you lack, my young man ; its idees." Far back in 1837 Rowland Hill of England, discovered to the world the " idee " that within the limits of a public transport service the cost of its use is regardless the distance traversed by any unit of traffic upon the moving ma- chinery, and upon this " idee " Mr. Hill based the English penny letter post of 1839. To-day this " idee " is the recognized law not only of the modem postal serv- ice of the world, it is the law of our city trolley services and of the througli freight services of our railways. * * * THE POST OFFICE — OUB MUTUAL TRANSPORTATION COMPANY. The post office is our mutual transportation company. Its management, the terms and conditions of its use, are subject to our will. Its only physical limi- tation is the capacity of the machinery of transportation. It is the only public transportation agency that covers the whole country. Its underlying principles are : Rates regardless of distance, regardless of the character or the volume of the matter transported; rates determined by the representatives of the ratepayers in Congress assembled, and on the cost of the service rendered. Within its limits all persons, places, and things are on a plane of the most perfect commercial equality. Up to its limits the humblest citizen on the most out-of-the way rural route is on a par with the richest cor- poration in our greatest metropolis. In his speech in favor of a uniform 2-cent letter rate, delivered in Congress February 21, 1839, Congressman Palfrey, of Massachusetts, spoke of the postal system of uniform rates as follows : " The idea of charging higher postage on a letter on account of the greater distance it travels is an absurdity. The long routes are all made up of a series of short ones. Whether the letter or the 10,000 letters mailed at Boston shall stop at Worcester or go on to Galena will not make $1 difference in the con- tract." Says Rowland Hill : " It Is not a matter of inference, but a matter of fact that the expense of the post office Is practically the same, whether a letter Is going from London to a village 11 miles distant or to Edinburgh, 397 miles. The difference is not expressible in the smallest coin we have. The average cost of the transportation of each letter, taking all the mails In the Kingdom, is estimated at one-ninth of a farthing." At this rate the average cost of the transportation of a half ounce American letter is about one-half a mill, a rate which it is idle to think of graduating by distance. PAECELS POST. 277 At 10 cents a mile for transportation of a mail bag it may cost the depart- ment a dollar to carry a single letter 10 miles, while 10,000 letters of another bag are carried at the same rate 100 miles, each costing for ten times the dis- tance only one-thousandth part as much. In 1862 Postmaster General Montgomery Blair suggested the application of this principle to a world postal service. In 1863, under the leadership of Abraham Lincoln, it was made the basis of the modern United States post office. In 1874 It became the basic principle of the new-born World Postal Union, under which boobs are now posted anywhere throughout the world at a common rate of 1 cent each 2 ounces, 8 cents a pound, and in this same year the United States Congress established a general merchandise post, limited to 4-pound par- cels, at the common world book rate for all distances within our territory. The Congress of 1885 gave to magazines and newspapers — registered second- class matter— a uniform cent-a-pound rate, and thus provided the American people with the greatest public school on earth. American express companies apply this principle of uniform rates in their transportation of books, seeds, bulbs, etc., for planting — third-class mail mat- ter—throughout their respective jurisdictions — New York to California — in parcels 10 pounds and over, at a rate just under that of the post office, with insurance up to $10. On magazines and newspaper^ — registered second-class mail matter — their uniform rates are: Parcels, up to 10 pounds, 10 cents; larger parcels, 1 cent a pound, collect and deliver within distances covered by their merchandise rate of $4.50 a hundred pounds or within zones of 1,500 miles, east or west of the Ohio-Pennsylvania State line. This principle of uniform rates is applied in the trolley service of every American city, and to it more than to anything else they owe their wonderful growth and prosperity. In 1888, Judge Cooley, of the Interstate Commerce Commission, said of the then existing uniform railway milk rates to New York, distances up to 220 miles : " It has served the people well. It tends to promote consumption and to stimulate production. It is not apparent how any other system could be devised that would present results equally useful or more just" BAILBOADS DEFEND TJNIPOBM MILK BATES. In 1895 this uniform milk rate, which then covered distances up to 330 miles, was attacked' by the Orange County milkmen on the issue that it de- prived them of their natural monopoly of the New York milk market. The Hon. Joseph H. Choate, of New York, represented the milkmen. Messrs. Rogers, Locke & Milburn represented the railroads. At that time the uniform rates from points west of the Hudson to the railroad terminals opposite New York City were as follows : On cream in 40-quart cans, 100-pound packets, 50 cents per packet, one-half cent a pound; in crates of 12-quart bottles, 70-pound packets, 15 cents per packet, a trifle less than one-fourth cent a pound ; on milk, 32 cents per packet, less than one-third cent a pound in cans ; 9.6 cents per packet, one-seventh cent a pound in crated bottles. The empty packets weigheil, cans, about 20 pounds ; crated bottles, 30 to 35 pounds. The weight of the filled bottle packets was partly due to the ice in which they were packed, and the above rates paid not only for two handlings of these filled packages and their transportation to the Hudson, opposite New York; they also covered the icing of the milk in summer, the heating of the cars in winter, and the return of the empty packets to their stations or origin. UNirOKM BATES TOO HIGH. With all this service the business was exceedingly remunerative to all en- gaged m the traffic, their rates, according to Mr. Choate, being from two to three times the cost of the service rendered. In the case of the Delaware, Lacka- wanna and Western Railroad the business was so profitable that the railroad managers actually paid their milk contractor, Westcott, $50,000 year as his share of the plunder. In the case of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad, which then transported about one-fourth of the milk brought by rail to New York, the president of the road determined the rates, and accepted as the share of his associate stockholders 80 per cent of the receipts, f ivmg ^^0 per cent to Westcott. In other words, the actual milk pay received by the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad was 25.6 cents per 40-quart milk can, weighing filled lOO pounds, empty 20 pounds, and about the dimensions oi a half barrel; and on bottled crates, weighing filled 75 pounds, empty 60 to rfa 278 PAECBLS POST. pounds, and of dimensions 12 by 12 by 24 inches (IJ bushels), 7.68 cents; 83 per cent of the entire business originated beyond Binghamton, N. Y., 206 miles from Hobolien, and on this part of the business every car and crate was hauled a round trip of at least 412 miles, each single trip involving a haul of heavy grades over the Catskill Mountains on special trains made up of refrigerator cars costing about $2,500 each, iced in summer and heated in winter. The Lacka- wanna milk trains average eight ears, and ran on a schedule time of 40 to 45 miles an hour. The average load of the cars was 160 cans, weighing filled on their way to New York 8 tons, and on the return trip If tons. In this busi- ness, according to Mr. Choate, the milk cars of the Erie Kailroad earned 26 times as much as the average freight car, and nearly 80 per cent more than their average passenger car. This old New York milk traffic compares well with the mail service rendered the Government by the railroads, and exceedingly well with their traffic in second-class mail sacks. The transport of the mail sacks is, indeed, less costly to the roads and less injurious to their cars than that of either milk cans or milk crates. Eates that proved so wonderfully profitable to the railroads in the milk traffic can be made equally profitable in mail service. Congress has but to provide for the Government ownership of its mail cars (its wooden mail bags), paying the railways a certain definite rate per mile for their transporta- tion, full or empty, and with a low uniform rate on merchandise, postal cars will always run well filled, at little if any more cost to the Government than It Is now paying for cars occupied to hardly a fifth of their capacity, and postal deficits will disappear. RAILROADS DEMAND UNIFORM CONTINENTAL RATES. In December, 1895, Commissioner George R. Blanchard, of the Joint Traffic Association, testifying in behalf of the uniform rate on milk to New York before the Interstate Commerce Commission, declared that there was no reason why It should not be extended to a thousand miles, and Messrs. Rogers, Locke & Milburn, counsel of the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad, said : " The distance within which the rate on milk should be uniform need only be limited by the time required to make it with the train and meet the wants of the New York market with milk not affected by is transpprtation. " The cost of train operation is not appreciably more whether there be 200 cans in a car, or 160 cans in a car, or 10 cans In a car. The same crew, the same messengers and organization, and the same terminal service have to be mlntained whether the car be carried from Binghamton or not, or from Sussex County or not, and the cost of the delivery of the can at the Hoboken terminal is in no real sense dependent upon the length of its haul." In his great work. The Economic Theory of Railway Location, Arthur M. Wellington says : " As a matter of purely public policy — that is to say, if the Interests of the railways were identical with the interests of the community as a whole — railway rates should be the same for all distances." Note also this testimony as to the uniform rates of the railways in their through traffic, set forth before the railway-rate committee of the United States Senate of 1905 at Washington : IOWA'S PROSPERITY DUE TO APPLICATION OF THE POSTAL PRINCIPLE IN TIIEOUGH RAILWAY TRAFI'IC. Hon. L. S. Coffin, late railroad commissioner of Iowa : " Some forty years ago the agricultural papers announced the fact that a shipment of butter from Davenport, Iowa, and a shipment of butter from central New York, and a similar shipment from St. Albans, Vt., were brought to Boston in the same car, and the freight rate on the butter from St. Albans and from central New York was the same as that from Davenport." And Mr. Coffin went on to say that the position of Iowa as the foremost of the States in agriculture was due to the fact that this system of uniform rates on dairy products had put her on a level, as to the cost of transportation, with localities 500 or 1,000 miles nearer the great marts of trade. To this custom was due the fact that his farm, which is a thousand miles farther from the great markets of New York and Boston, was worth as much for dairy purposes as farms In New York or Ver- mont. It was this application of the postal principle to railway traffic that had brought to him his prosperity and had enabled him to so educate his children that they could be as intelligent as the children of farmers living near PABCBbS POST. 279 those great markets. "We want this same thing to go on; we want the farmers a thousand miles away from a great market to be as prosperous and his children to have the same and as good facilities for Intelligence as the children of farmers only a hundred miles away," and, finally, he concluded ■ « There should be no wholesale rates as against retail rates ; no more so than in buying postage stamps." GBOUPED BATES IN THROUGH TRAFFIC DEVELOP AGRICULTURE IN THE WEST, M iNU- FACTUBBS IN THE EAST. Prof. Hugo E. Meyer, late of Chicago University : " The one thing which has clone more than all others for the development of this country is the common custom of the railways to group large districts of territory with a uniform rate, regardless of distance. Except for this system of grouped rates we never should have seen the years when we built 10,000 and 12,000 miles of railway, for there would have been no farmers west of the Mississippi River who could' have used the land opened up by those railways. Except for these grouped rates we could not have in New England a great boot and shoe industry or a great cotton-milling industry ; we could not have spread throughout New York and Pennsylvania and Ohio manufacturing industries of the most diversified kinds, because those industries would have had no market among the farmers west of the Mississippi River." THE EXISTENCE OF NEW ENGLAND INDUSTRIES DEPENDENT ON THROUGH UNIFORM BATES. President Tuttle, of the Boston & Maine Railroad : " The boot and shoe indus- try of New England flourishes," says Mr. Tuttle, " because of the common rate— IJ cents per pair on shoes carried 20 to 1,400 miles. The barbed-wire industry of Worcester, Mass., continues to employ 5,000 hands because of the common rate which Worcester enjoys with Pittsburg to all the West. The textile indus- tries of Massachusetts flourish because of their grouped rates over a great part of the United States." THROUGH UNIFOBM BATES CREATE NEW ENGLAND INDUSTRY. But this system of low uniform rates not only keeps Industries flourishing; it creates industries. " In the northern part of Maine," says Mr. Tuttle, " there are hundreds of thousands of acres of spruce lands. Up to within 10 years ago, in certain parts of Maine, there were no inhabitants. At a certain place there was primeval forest, not containing even a hundred cabins. A railroad was put into that territory — the Bangor & Aroostook. Certain capitalists discussed the establishment of a pulp and paper mill in that region. They selected a place where they could bond a large quantity of timber land, with a good water power, and where the other conditions for manufacturing were satisfactory, and called it Millinocket. "NEAR-BY MASKETS TOO SMALL lOR MODERN INDUSTRIES. " In order to establish a profitable industry up there it was necessary to man- ufacture upon a scale sufficiently large to make the product cheap, and this meant a production very much in excess of what could be used in the nearer markets. So they came to the railroad and said : ' We want to know what rate you will charge to carry our products to Boston, New York, and Chicago, and all about us, and then we can determine whether we can build that mill.' Then the railroad had to bear in mind that Chicago was receiving paper from other mills within 500 miles from Chicago, and if the Maine mill was to compete with these mills It must have the same rate for its 1,400 to 1,500 mile haul as they had for the 500-mile haul. The railroad therefore equalized its rates, "so that the company could put their products into the markets of the United States. As a result, we have this place Millinocket, with its schools, churches, streets, electric lights, and its population of 3,000 or 4,000, who live as comfortably as they do anywhere in the world, a place where 10 years ago it was primeval forest. To illustrate further in regard to this product, paper, we have other mills in different parts of New England producing paper which is sent to the same markets. We have to equalize the cost of transport, regardless of dis- tance between all these mills, so that the product shall be sold in the market at the same price." 280 PARCELS POST. WHY NOT HAVE tTNIFOBM BATES IN ALL PUBLIC TEANSPOETATION ? Manifestly a system of transport rates so useful in through traffic could bardly fail to be of equal benefit in local business. Strange as it may appear, however, thougb our railvrays ignore distance over continental areas, they carefully mark up the miles in local traffic, and investigation will prove that in many cases the very lovrest less-than-carload rate for the very shortest dis- tance is higher than the through rate for very long distances. In the course of the legislative hearings at Boston in 1900, relative to the issue "The State management of the Boston & Albany Railroad v. The New York Central man- agement of this great State highway," President Tuttle, of the Boston & Maine Railroad, gave these as the figures charged for the transportation of flour in carloads from Ogdensburg, 429 miles via the Rutland Railroad and his own road, to Boston : Cents. For transportation, 429 miles 7.2 Terminal charges at Boston for handling and delivering the barrel, guaran- teeing its safety, collecting charges, and paying back to the lines from the West their share of the transportation tax 3 Total 10. 2 The less-than-carload rate on a single barrel of flour over the New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad, Hartford to Wethersfield, 4 miles, is 25 cents; in quantities of several barrels, 12 cents. Taking the average haul of general produce at 429 miles, it would seem clear that a common 12-cent rate for the railway transport of 200-pound parcels of all kinds of comniodities would provide all the revenues needed from all railway freight traffic. The average tax levied by the railways of the United States for the transport of all kinds of freight in 1907 was about $1.06 a ton, or a trifle over 5 cents a hundred. The average passenger tax was about 65 cents per trip, this for trains filled to hardly a sixth of their capacity. Mr. Childs, general manager of the Erie Railroad, testifying before the Inter- state Commerce Commission in the milk case of 1895, already referred to, said that as railway business increases the cost of the service decreases in the ratio of 25 per cent for every 100 per cent Increase of traffic ; in other words, " if the business be doubled, the cost is diminished 25 per cent per unit of persons or produce transported. There is no extra cost in extra speed, because any pos- sible extra expense involved in making fast time is offset by the increased service thus secured from the engine." " It is a principle of transportation," declared the general freight agent of the Erie, Mr. H. B. Chamberlain, " that the constant movement of cars is what makes profit for a road. It's the constantly moving wheel which makes the profit. In the traffic of the roads running into New York these milk cars, which are constantly on the move, although not heavily loaded, carry over four times as much traffic in the course of a year as the ordinary box car." With public transportation under the complete control of a council composed, say, of the officers of the Post Office Department, of the governors of the differ- ent States, and of Army and Navy engineers, we believe that the public trans- port business of this country might be supported by a system of uniform, cost- of-the-servlce, station-to-station rates as follows : BATES BEOABDLESS OF DISTANCE. Freight rates, regardless of character of commodities or volume of business : Closed cars, 5 cents per haul per 100 pounds. Open cars, not over 50 cents, possibly as low as 40 cents, per haul per ton. PASSENGEE RATES. Fast trains, stopping at intervals 40 miles or more $1.00 Express trains, making more frequent stops . 25 Way trains, stopping at all stations . 05 EVILS OF PEESENT TBANSPOET DISCBIMINATIONS — BIG EEALEES GIVEN LOW UNIFOBM BATES OVEB CONTINENTAL AEEAS— SMALL DEALEBS IMPBISONED IN NAEROW SLAVE PENS. Under present conditions the value-of-the-service system of rates, rates ac- cording to distance and the value of the service rendered, is quite strictly applied in general passenger traffic and in local freight traffic. In through-. PARCELS POST. 281 freight traflJc, on the other hand, large dealers and large producers are generally given uniform rates over large areas of territory regardless at once of distance and of the character of their commodities. As to travel, they are usually pro- vided with cheap mileage books, if not with free travel. Almost all westbound commodities destined to Pacific coast terminals have a common blanket rate, regardless of distance and regardless of the character of the commodity from all points east of the Missouri Eiver, and on their eastbound traffic from the Pacific coast terminals to points east of the Missouri River they also enjoy a common blanket rate on their through carloads over zones of many hundreds of miles. ■ OBWlSfABY CITIZENS TAXED "ALL THE SUBJECT WILL BEAK." The ordinary citizen, on the other hand, receives very different treatment. Unable to invest in a thousand-mile mileage book, my tax New York to and from Washington is $11.30. My wealthier friend, occupying the seat beside me and the owner of a mileage book, pays for the same service $9.04, and Con- gress, whose business it is to secure equality of privileges and rights to all the people, forces the ordinary citizens of the United States to submit to this dis- criminating taxation. The day laborer is infinitely worse off than I. Even under the best conditions — with fares at but 2 cents a mile — he is taxed 20 cents, 10 per cent of his $2 a day earnings, for a round trip to and from a short job but 5 miles from his home. If his job be 25 miles distant, his round trip costs him $1, or 50 per cent of his earnings. This for a service which, under (Jflvemment ownership of the railways, could be profitably done at a charge of not over 10 cents a round trip. The Government railways of Belgium furnished even lower rates than this to Belgian workmen as long ago as 1883, and the trasiness was exceedingly profitable. INDIVIDUAL ENTERPRISE CRUSHED SMALL DEALERS AND SMALL PRODUCERS DRIVEN OUT OF EXISTENCE THE BIO TOWN ENRICHED, THE SMALL TOWN IMPOVERISHED. The small dealer and the small producer suffers the same discriminating taxation as the workman. The rates on their local traffic and their less-than- carload business are sometimfes 50 per cent higher than those of their great competitors engaged in carload traffic covering continental areas. The great dealer of the interior unquestionably sends his produce to Europe on occasion ait a less tax than that levied on similar produce of the small dealer sent to our seaboard for home consumption. The large towns at railway terminals get far lower rates than are accorded to the smaller towns between the terminals. THE PRIVATE EXPRESS COMPANY KILLS THE SMALL TOWN. The private express custom of taxing an additional rate for each line over which a parcel passes makes the establishment of a business requiring express service in small towns an impossibility. Such business must be located, if it would be successful at great centers, where several express lines diverge and where supplies and produce are usually subject to but one expressage. Boise, Idaho, is controlled by the Pacific Express Co. Buffalo and Cle\eland, on the Pacific Express line, enjoy several other express services. The smaller towns near by, subject to a second express charge, pay nearly twice as much as Buffalo and Cleveland on their Pacific Express business ; to Boise, Idaho, Off 8-pound parcels from Bufl'alo, N. Y., 2,437 miles, $1.20 ; Batavia, N. Y., 2,473 miles, $2.20; Cleveland, Ohio, 2,295 miles, $1.20; Euclid, Ohio, 2,306 miles, $2.20. With similar discriminations on all their express business, the fate of these smaller towns is evident. IHE PRIVATE EXPRESS COMPANY KILLS THE SMALLER MANUFACTURER, FARMER, AND DEALER. Bates from New York: "Where the express rate on a 100-pound parcel is 40 cents, two 50-pound parcels pay 80 cents ; four 25-pound parcels pay $1.40 ; ten 10-pound parcels pay $3. Where a 100-pound parcel pays $1, two 50- ?onnd parcels pay $1.60 ; four 25-pound parcels pay $2.20 ; ten 10-pound parcels pay $4.50. The smaller the business, the higher the tax; the small busmess goes to the wall. The late 300 per cent dividend of the Wells-Fargo Express Co. is striking evidence of the express exploitation of the general public. 282 PARCELS POST. TAXATION WITHOUT EEPEESENTATION. " Our present system of making railway rates," said Interstate Commerce Commissioner Prouty, January 12, 1903, " is taxation without representation in its most dangerous form." This taxation now amounts to over $2,500,- 000,000 a year, to over $150 a year for the average American family. In the determination of these taxes the taxpayers have no share. These taxes con- tinue to be levied upon the principle " what the subject will bear." They always discriminate in favor of the big dealer and the big producer as against the small dealer and the small producer and against the little town and. in favor of the big town. The result is the rapid concentration of our population in great cities within which laborers are huddled in narrow slave pens, while those who are enriched by this taxation live in palaces in other sections of the same city. And the railway legislation proposed' for the consideration of the Sixty-flrst Congress offers us a future almost worse than the past. The railway specula- tors left in control of our public highways are to be deprived of inducements for the improvement and extension of their transport agencies, while transport taxation is to be left in a chaos that can not fail to result in widespread disaster. PEEDIOTION OF CARBOLL D. WEIGHT, 1894. The Hon. Carroll D. Wright foretold the present condition of things in his notable address on the Chicago strike of June, 1894 : " The Chicago strike is epochal in its influence," he said, " because it empha- sizes the claim that there must be some legislation which shall place railroad employees on a par with railroad employers in conducting the business of transportation, so far as the terms and conditions of employment are concerned; because the events of that strike logically demand that another declaration of law and of the principles of the Federal Government shall be made ; a declara- tion that all wages paid as well as charges for any service rendered in the transportation of property, passengers, etc., shall be reasonable and just. It has emphasized the power of the Federal Government to protect its great interests in the transportation of the mails." Personally, he added, he was opposed to the Government management of the railroads, but if it came, it would come because of a great necessity, and good citizens should have no fear. When it came, moreover, it would be not at the demand of the labor involved in carrying on the work of transportation, but " at the demand and in the interest of the railroads and of the shippers," and the movement would be most seductive. The demand would be that the Government should take charge of the roads — not purchase them — should take charge of the roads, and out of the proceeds of the transportation business guarantee to the existing stockholders a small but reasonable dividend. And this seductive movement would command the sup- port of the conservative men of the country, of the stockholders themselves. BAILWATS — POST EOADS. This dictum thrown out by Ex-Presldent Roosevelt in his speeches at Indian- apolis, Ind., and at Lansing, Jlich., in the spring of 1907 suggests the seductive movement predicted by Mr. Wright, and the times now seem ripe for its consideration. A TEANSPOBT PEOGRAM. * -tf * * * ili * President Roosevelt's reference to the railways as post roads suggests the fol- lowing transport program : 1. Government control and guaranty of fair return on investments. The National Government, under its constitutional power over post roads, to take control of the entire business of public transportation and to guarantee to the holders of transport securities a return on their investments equal to the average annual return of the past 10 years, a similar return on their cost to be guaranteed on roads recently built. (This will insure absolute safety to the investments of savings banks and similar associations. It wUl insure more than a square deal to railway speculators.) 2. Maintenance, extension, and operations of post roads. PARCELS POST. 283 The maintenance, extension, and operation of the consolidated system to be under the control and management of the extended postal department, including the Engineering Corps of the Army and Navy; all postal employees to be en- listed as men are now enlisted in the Army and Navy. The Government engi- neers intrusted with the building and maintenance of the Panama Canal may be safely intrusted with the care of all our public highways. To prevent waste, the post-road policy of the National Government should be the same as the highway policy of the difEerent States, viz : Any community, town, county, or State asking for an extension of post roads should pay some share of the cost. Local roads may, perhaps, be left to local control, as local roads are now left to the care of the smaller communities within the different States. But the whole business must be under the general jurisdiction of the National Govern- ment. 3. Funds. As to funds. United States 2 per cent 30-year bonds are worth 101. The new postal savings banks will offer the Government an opportunity to secure funds for the improvement and extension of its post roads at 2 per cent. A large part of the funds needed for this purpose may be secured, indeed, without the payment of any interest by the issue of postal notes — orders for postal serv- ices—with blank payable-to-order spaces, to continue in circulation as currency until made payable to particular individuals, and may be redeemed at the va- rious post and railway offices of the country with new currency. 4. Tolls, freight rates. Make the very lowest less than carload rate on merchandise the uniform rate for the station-to-station service, adding thereto the lowest possible rate for collection and delivery, to the end that we may have a universal door-to-door rate within the entire public service. The possibilities as to low transport rates under a well-coordinated system of transportation are altogether beyond imagination. It is estimated that a saving of $50,000,000 a year could be made in the transport service of the city of New York alone if the entire business were in the hands of one well-equipped organization, run in the public interest. Vice President Buckland, of the New Tork, New Haven & Hartford Railroad, is quoted as saying that $15,000,000 a year could be saved to the people within his railroad province under a door-to-door freight- transport service undertaken by the railroad in connection with the trolley lines. The time is near at hand when heat and light and power, derived from coal, transformed into electricity at the mine, and conveyed by cable to the place of use will free the railroad from the transport of coal, and the cars now employed for this purpose will be free for the transport of general mechandise. 5. Hours and wages of labor. Not over 8 hours per day, not over 48 hours a week, the hours and the wages of labor to be determined by the Representatives of the people in open Congress. (Experience has abundantly proved that long hours of service in this nerve- destroying employment are at once dangerous to the public and deathly to the workman. Insured through his Representatives in Congress a share in deter- mining the hours of his work and his remuneration, the worker upon the post roads will have no occasion to strike.) 6. The extended Post Office Department. The new Department of Post Offices and Post Roads to manage the entire service of transportation and transmission may be composed of one member of the National Cabinet and 10 or more associates, each of whom shall be at the head of a postal division corresponding to one of the groups into which the railways system of the country has been divided by the Interstate Commerce Commission, and shall be responsible for the postal business within his terri- tory. This department may be assisted by an advisory council made up of the governors of the different States. The pending substitution of electricity for steam, resulting as it surely will m a very large reduction of transportation expenses, makes the present hour a most appropriate time for the consideration of this program. Uncle Sam, the repre- sentative of all of us, may be safely intrusted with the interests of each of us. " Upon the postal service more than upon anything else does the general eco- nomic as well as the social and political development of the country depend. (Postal Commission, 59th Cong., Jan. 28, 1907.) And what is true of the United States of America is equally true of the United States of the postal world. The Chairman. Have you anything to say, Mr. Howard? 284 PARCELS POST. STATEMENT OF HON. WILLIAM S. HOWARD, REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF GEORGIA. Mr. HowAED. Mr. Chairman, I spoke to you privately a moment ago. I have been so overwhelmed vrith other matters for the last few days that I thought if you were going to continue these hearings I would like to present my argument in favor of the bill I have introduced in this Congress at some time in the future, when I can do it in a precise, orderly way. The Chaieman. You have it prepared in manuscript form? Mr. Howard. I would as soon do that. The Chaieman. Have you any idea how long it would be^ jNIr. Howard. Not over three or four pages on the record. The Chairman. Without objection, Mr. Howard will bepermitted to submit to the stenographer his prepared statement of his position on his bill. Is there any objection? [After a pause.] There is none. (Statement submitted by Mr. Howard, of Georgia, is as follows:) Mr. Chairman, it would be useless to consume the time of this committee for the purpose of calling attention to the popular demand throughout the country and the urgent necessity, for a parcels post- This Government has allowed the express companies of this coun- try to usurp a function of the Government, in flagrant violation of the plain written law of the land, for such a length of time it is popularly believed that custom has abrogated the law. The Department of Justice, the great bulwark, supposed to stand between our Government and any infringement upon its rights, says through its legally constituted officers that they are fully aware that the postal laws are being violated by the express companies, but that they have been violating the law so long that they do not believe a conviction for a violation of this law could be obtained. For the information of this committee I respectfully refer them to file No. 119346, in the Attorney General's office, Department of Justice. In an opinion rendered by the Assistant to the Attorney General, dated October 6, 1910, which will be found in the file above referred to, he says : " It is needless to cite authorities with respect to the great weight attaching to long-continued administrative construction of statutes." In other words, Mr. Chairman, the Department of Justice, speak- ing through the Assistant to the Attorney General, says that be- cause in 1873 the attorney for the Post Office Department construed the word " packet " to mean " packets of letters," and that the statute prohibiting competition with the Government in "mailable matter" referred to first-class mail matter, and no other, we must sit by and allow a continuation of the violation of the law. So, if one attorney in the employ of the Government gave an opinion clearly and unmistakably erroneous, that all subsequent servants of the people mus-t of necessity place the same construc- tion upon the statutes to avoid the embarrassment of a conflict in opinions. In the meantime the Government has relinquished its rights, suf- fered the usurpation of its constitutional functions by private cor- porations, and enriched a corporate parasite upon profits justly belonging to our Post Office Department. PAE.OELS POST. 285 Mr. Chairman, I do not know whether either of the bills intro- duced by myself will receive serious consideration atf the hands of this committee, for the reason there are so many other bills pending, introduced by gentlemen of national reputation — all good bills, so far sA 1 can see. As to whose bill is recommended for passage by this committee, 1 am thoroughly unselfish. I do- know this : That countless thousands will be benefited by the passage of either of the bills introduced by myself; and. I am will- ing to stake my professional reputation upon the fact that the Gov- ' ermneht will regain its governmental functions, and a deficit in the Post Office Department will be an unheard-of condition in the future if either hill should pass. The provisions of H. R. 2.966, the first bill introduced by me, simply amend section 181 of the Revised Statutes, precluding the possibility of a technical and hair-splitting Attorney General giv- ing private corporations the privilege of competing with this Gov- ernment in the carriage of mailable matter, and it also raises the weight limit to 11 pounds, to conform to the laws of other countries. If the gentlemen on this committee will study the usage of the words " letters or pacquets " and " letters and packets " from the beginning of our postal system, then take Webster's old-fashioned dictionary, that our fathers used to study, look up the literal defini- tion of the Word "packet," and then read the line in section 181, Eevised Statutes, containuig the words "letters or packets," you will immediately come to the rational conclusion that H. R. 2956 simply seeks to restore the Post Office Department to its original status, which was never legally relinquished by it. The opinion of the attorney of the Post Office Department origi- nally construing section 181 is so flagrantly warped to meet an occa- sion, the circumstances of which have never been and never will be known, that it is really ludicrous. The Government certainly has a statute understood by all pro- ; hibiting the counterfeiting of its currency and postage stamps. It would be as sound in law for the Attorney General to render an opinion on either of these statutes and say that because the counter- feiter failed to run a silk thread through the bank note or put mucilage on the back of the postage stamp he had not violated the statutes, as to say that the word 'packet " means " packets of let- ters," and that this statute. Revised Statutes, section 181, means com.- petition in first-class mail matter and no other, when the statute is as explicit as. the English language can make it and as silent as the tomb on the classes of mail it refers to. Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not propose to go into the details of working out how much postage the Postmaster General will charge. How many millions of pounds we will carry ; whether we will carry chickens, butter, or eggs, or why express companies get a better rate from the raiitoads than the Government. These are administrative matters. The thing I am after is stopping the competition by ex- press companies. "When you stop this competition upon mailable - matter, vou put and end forever to the opposition to the estaJDlish- ffient of a parcels post. The moment this is done there will be universal sentiment from every quarter for it. If you want to see the injustice to our people by withholding the parcels post from them, go down to our own post office in Washing- 286 PARCELS POST. ton and take two 11 -pound packages of mailable matter, one ad- dressed to South Africa and the other to Atlanta, Ga. The one to South Africa goes through for 12 cents per pound as a whole pack- age ; step to the next window and present your package for Atlanta, Ga. ; you can not send it at all. You will have to divide it into three packages, and your own Government charges you 44 cents more for carriage than it costs to South Africa. Then take an 11-pound package to the express office, take notice of the concentrated indiffer- ence of this monopoly's agent, take notice of the price paid for its transportation, and you have all the argument necessary for the establishment of this system by which our people can be accommo- dated. Can this Government afford to admit that it is so inefficient in making contracts with railroads, so inefficient in selecting its public offi&ials, that it can not undertake the inauguration of a parcels post that almost every other civilized nation in the world has established for the convenience of its citizens, to the benefit of its commerce, and to the financial betterment of their postal departments ? I believe I speak the sentiment of 12,000,000 of farmers when I state that they would rather have no attempt at a parcels post than one confined solely to the rural route upon which the parcel is ac- cepted by the carrier. They understand that this only means that the rural delivery will be used as " feeder " for the express companies, and will be of no substantial benefit to them or the country merchant, who frequently orders supplies in small quantities. Make the parcels post universal in its operation. Employ the zone system if necessary. Try it five years, and then let any man seek to repeal it, and see if every man, woman, and child in the country would not rebel against even the thought of such a thing. I happened to be here in Washington in 1893 when they were seeking to establish rural free delivery. People called it " fool legis- lation"; "populistic foolishness"; "ruination to the Government." To-day we have practically 47,000 rural routes in this country, carry- ing letters and daily papers to the doors of our farmers and rural population. Who would dare strike a line from this beneficent law, which has accomplished more good than any law passed since the Civil War? Establish the parcels post. Here we have a long-suffering public ready to fill the empty mail cars; ready to fill the empty rural wagons; ready to wipe out a yawning deficit in the Post Office Department. Then why not a parcels post ? The Chaikman. I suppose that ends the hearing in favor of the parcels post. The 12th of July will be fixed as the day when the opponents of the parcels post may appear before this same commit- tee, if they desire. Mr. Lewis. That definition of the purpose of the meeting would not exclude an analysis of the measures that have been presented here. The Chairman. No, sir. Mr. Lewis. I wish to analyze them with reference to what I con- ceive to be the real interest of the parcels post and the practical features of the subject. I am in favor of parcels post, as the com- mittee now well knows. Would I be excluded from presenting an analysis of the measures that have been presented? PARCELS POST. 287 The Chairman. You do not believe that these other bills will an- swer the purpose? Mr. Lewis. They are neither practical nor adequate. The Chairman. Then you would appear in opposition, and you would have a right to be "heard, if there is no objection. STATEMENT OF MR. W. A. FOSTER. Mr. Foster. May I say just a word ? The reason I speak now is on account of something that was said this morning. It was my fortune to be invited by one of the committee to luncheon the day before yesterday. He is a farmer as well, and from New Jersey, and I refuse to give his name. That gentleman in a private conversation stated — and it being a private conversation I publish it to this com- mittee — that what made him tired was the fact of times happening in this committee whereby he received a letter from an organization, or he heard some gentleman get up in behalf of the organization and state that they had held a meeting, and that they had given two hours and three-quarters to a very exhaustive study of this general parcels post, and they had come to the conclusion, and so forth. Mr. Gardner. May I interrupt the gentleman. I happened to be passing the door at the time of that conversation and heard what was said, and instead of two hours and three-quarters he said three- quarters of an hour. Mr. Foster. Pardon me; the correction is right, as my memory recalls to me. The Chairman. I may add there that there are other members of the committee who would be in sympathy with Mr. Gardner's views with reference to that. Mr. Foster. That is a thing that causes a lot of trouble, and I am glad other members besides the 'chairman of this committee can recognize that fact. Now, as to commercial salesmen — and, by the way, I have a letter in my pocket which refers to the fact that there are commercial salesmen in this country opposed to parcels post — I would like to have a picture of a commercial salesman that would go into St. Louis to Mr. Reece, of Rice, Stix & Co. ; or to Dave Calhoun, of the Eli Walker Dry Goods Co. ; Mr. Wolf, of the Wolf -Wilson Dry Goods Co. ; or Mr. Simmons, of the Simmons Hardware Co. ; or Mr. Morris, of the Morris Dry Goods Co. ; or to The Leader, or The Famous, or t» The William Barr Dry Goods Co., after they had written or wired to Mr. Bloomingdale of New York stating they were in favor of the parcels post — I would like to see a picture of a salesman who would go to these people and ask to solicit their orders, under those condi- tions, stating they were opposed to the parcels post. That is a con- dition I was considering. Now, I would like to see any one of this organization of men who would stop just before Mr. Bloomingdale and then go to New York City and ask his firm of buyers for a position, for an order, for business, and state to him that they were opposed to the parcels post. Now, the thing that gets me is the mentality of anv set of men, grangers or any other class of men, who will come before this com- mittee—I would like to have it figured out why it is possible for these men to state that the country, or that commercial salesmen or 288 PAECELS POST. Republicans or Democrats are for or against the parcels post. It is folly to me. I want to say that I had an idea that to be a Senator or a Congressman, previous to this experience, was the simplest thing in the world. I had an idea that all you had to do was to get elected and your friends would tell you what to do. But I have changed niy mind. Now, if ever I am so fortunate as to get to be a Member of Congress and I am able to get on the floor and they have up a bill to make the salary of a Congressman $50,000, 1 am going to favor it. I am going to vote for it all the time, for you .earn it in having to con- sider all the fool stuff that is uttered in the committee rooms of the United States Congress, a lot of which is the most foolish stuff that was ever heard by the public. That is my opinion of that. I do not consider the commercial salesman is going to be put out of business ; and I can not understand the mentality of some of these people who promote propositions of every kind and description that leads them to come forward and speak for the commercial salesmen of this country. The Chaieman. May I interrupt you to inquire if it is not true that you are entirely familiar with commercial salesmen? Mr. Foster. I am representing the dyers and cleaners, and I am taking this up The Chairman (interposing). I want to ask a question. I do not think it will compromise you in any way. If it does, the question will be withdrawn. Mr. Foster. My principles are not for sale to commercial salesmen or anybody else. The Chairman. I did not want anything in the record that would in any way compromise you. Mr. Foster. You can't do it. The Chairman. Is it not true- the commercial salesmen as a class are opposed to the parcels post ? Mr. Foster. I think only in so far as the dyers and cleaners of Washington, for whom I am now speaking The Chairman. I did not mean that. Mr. Foster. I intend to answer your question. I thinlv it is due to the fact that they are not fully acquainted with the subject. I do not think this committee can to-day frame a bill, from the questions I have heard the chairman ask here of these people, with the knowl- edge or lack of knowledge that has been presented to the committee. It is a much bigger question than I ever dreamed of ; I can assure you of that. I think that is the same condition with the commercial sales- men all over this country, and the small merchant as well. Mr. Gregg. You think if they are opposed to it it is because they are unfamiliar with the facts surrounding it, is that the idea? Mr. Foster. That is my personal opinion. I want to say that I was for eight years a commercial salesman handling large quantities of stock and a large number of men. They are the most peculiar class in the world. Now, this happened with Mr. Simmons, of the Simmons Hardware Co. He wanted to accomplish a certain thing with commercial salesmen. He called them all in and told them he wanted it done. They shook hands with him and went out. I hap- pened to come there at the same time, and I stated to him, "That; is the worst thing you ever did, because it will not be accompli^ed ; it will injure matters. Those commercial salesmen will go out and PAEOELS POST, 289 say, ' I gave my word to Jim.' " And I tell you, gentlemen, that is my personal affair, and I am going to do as I believe; and they worked against every object that Mr. Simmons wished them or required them or ordered them to do. The consequence is, to state what some other commercial salesmen of mine will say, I think we ought to have a parcels post, and the funny thing is this New Jersey Congressman thinks the same thing. I am perfectly confident there is one from Missouri, where I might happen to quote a house he knows of there; but I think it is puzzlmg them all. I find it to be a deeper subject than anybody I knew had any idea of. The Chairman. You have been a very attentive listener to what has been said? Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Do you think that the information that has been given this committee is such that if you were a member you could prepare a bill which would meet existing conditions? Mr. Foster. I am absolutely positive that it would be an impossi- bility for my own mentality to do that. I have a high impression of the mentality of this conmaittee, but I do not see how it is possible for you to do it with the information that has been given to you. Understand me, gentlemen, I am absolutely in favor of the parcels post for the benefit of the dyers and cleaners. [Laughter.] The Chairman. We understand that. If there is no objection, the subcommittee on the consideration of the parcels post will adjourn to meet on the 12th day of July at 10.30. (Thereupon, at 12.30 o'clock p. m., the subcommittee adjourned to meet again, for the consideration of the parcels post, on the 12th day of July, 1911, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) Subcommittee No. 4 or the Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads, House of Representatives, Wednesday, July 12, 1911. The subcommittee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. Dannitte H. Mays presiding. Mr. Mays. The committee has met for the purpose of hearing persons on the parcels-post proposition, and we will now hear any- one who wishes to be heard. STATEMENT OF MR. M. I. COREY, OF ARGOS, IND. Mr. CoREr. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, there are quite a num- ber of representatives in the city of different organizations who de- sire to be heard, and yet we are trying, on account of the inclemency of the weather, to get it in just as brief and short a form as possible. The first party we will call on this morning is W. P. Bogardus, of Mount Vernon, Ohio, who represents the National Retail Hard- ware Association. 3110—11 19 290 PARCELS POST, STATEMENT OF MR. W. P. BOGARDUS, OF MOUNT VERNON, OHIO, REPRESENTING THE NATIONAL RETAIL HARDWARE ASSO- CIATION. Mr. BoGARDUS. There is a great hue and cry that the farmer needs protection and that he is imposed upon and that he is denied the rights and privileges that the people in the cities enjoy. And the men who have a panacea for all the ills that mankind are heir to, come forward with great noise, and proclaim that they have the remedy that will cure all the ills, and make us all happy and con- tented. And they put forward a scheme that they have seen m use in the thickly settled parts of Europe, and of which they seem to know mighty little, and make the claim that if it was tried here then there would be little use for anything*else. And they call it parcels Our farmer friends, through the constant insistence of their lead- ers, have come to believe that they have found the cure for all their troubles. It is urged that with a parcels post we could get our fresh eggs every morning by mail, and our butter fresh from the creamery, and fresh lettuce with the dew still on it, for breakfast. How many farmers will put 8 cents on each pound of butter, in stamps, in order to send it by mail? How many dozen of eggs will come in by mail, if the farmer has to take off 8 cents per dozen from the market price? Can he get the additional 8 cents per dozen or pound over the market price because he sends his produce by mail ? It is absurd to even think of such a thing. What, then, is the advantage of par- cels post to the farmer? "We have seen that it is not for what he may send out. Then it must be for what he expects, in price, on the goods that come in. Mr. Weeks. You assume that he will pay 8 cents for each pack- age? Mr. BoGAEDUs. How can he help it if he pays the postage ? Mr. Weeks. Nobody knows what the postage is going to be. Mr. BoGAEDUS. We base this on the claim made by the friends of parcels post, that the 8-cent rate will be the proper thing. Mr. Weeks. That is for a general parcels post; but that has noth- ing to do with the parcels post over rural routes. Mr. BoGARDtrs. We may insert 5 cents in there. Mr. Weeks. I just wanted to call your attention to the fact that that was a pure assumption on your part, that 8 cents. Mr. BoGARDus. We will let it go at that; but that is what they claimed when the committee was here a year ago, that 8 cents would be the proper rate for a parcels post. It is not a local parcels post — they want a general parcels post. The constant agitation and misstatements that the ultimate con- sumer is being robbed by the middleman have prejudiced him and have developed the idea that he is being taken advantage of in the purchase of his supplies. And designing men have taken advantage of all this to encourage in the consumer a demand for help from the Government in the shape of a parcels post. The so-called " from- manuf acturer-to-consumer " concerns have flooded the country with literature that has undermined confidence, and the noise made by the advocates of parcels post has drawn attention from the disadvantages of the scheme, as they have purposed to do. PARCELS POST. 291 Mr. Gregg. Do you know that as a fact— that the advocates of the parcels post have flooded the country with literature? Mr. BOGAHDUS. If you have not received a large amount of litera- ture, it is because are an exception. Mr. Geegg. I have received some literature; but how do you know that it has been done by some systematic process ? Mr. BbGAEDTJS. Only from my experience with the Postal League. They are sending out their statements and their literature all over the country. I have received it. I base my judgment simply upon that experience. Mr. Gregg. I just wanted to know how you knew that as a fact. What we want to get at here are facts, not bald statements. Mr. BoGAEDTTS. The advantage to the farmer in parcels post is not in added ability to sell his produce but, as claimed, to get his supplies cheaper. If, to get his_ supplies cheaper, it becomes necessary to send away for them, then it follows that his home merchant loses that trade, and, as he has no other trade, he must of necessity look for something else to do. And for the lack of business in the country he gravitates to the city, and his help does the same. The poor man in the country can nqt send away for his supplies, because he has no ready money. The country merchant has gone, and there is no place where he can get trust to tide him over, and his condition is such that he is compelled to go to the city for work. And so the farmer, to save, as he thinks, a little on the cost of his supplies, breaks down his facilities for getting help to run his farm. You say that this is an imaginary condition, but it is not. I have seen such conditions come from the establishing of rural free delivery. When the post office was taken away, the incentive to come to the store was gone. The blacksmith shop, once a busy place, is silent. The cobbler sits alone in his shop, and the church, once a power in the community, is going to decay. With the store and post office gone, there is no reason for the existence of the hamlet. Mr. Weeks. Let me ask you one or two questions along that line. Did the farmer have unnecessary blacksmithing done before the establishment of the rural route? Mr. BoGAEDtrs. Possibly he found a place that was nearer. Mr. Weeks. He had the the same work done by somebody, then? Mr. BoGAEDTJS. I presume so. When he goes to town now he in- cludes that work among the other work. Mr. Weeks. That would be true in those other instances to which you called our attention, would it not ? Mr. BOGARDUS. When he comes to the country post office he in- cltdes his blacksmithing and things of that kind there. Mr. Weeks. It does not mean that there is any less work of that character being done by somebody, does it ? Mr. BoGAEDTjs. It means that it is a change of location in the work. Mr. Geegg. Change of condition ? Mr. Bogaedus. Change of location. A man wants his horses shod just as much as ever, but he goes to a place away from his own home. Mr. Gregg. How about the cobbler? Mr, Bogaedus. It is done the same. Mr. Gregg. Would the street railways^ have any effect on the cobbler business? 292 PARCELS POST. Mr. BoGAEDUs. I should think they did. There is no question but what there is a trend toward centralization in this country. Mr. Mats. To what do you ascribe that — to the rural free-delivery system or the parcels-post system as it is sought to be inaugurated? Mr. BoGAEDus. Those are simply elements; simply conditions that bring about a condition we are bound to regret after a while- — the Concentration of our work in the cities. Mr. Mays. In your argument do you condemn the rural free de- livery along with the parcels post? Mr. BoGARDUs. No. The rural free delivery is settled, and there is no use condemning it. I am simply citing that as a result of our establishing rural free delivery. Mr. Mats. Are you contending that the rural free delivery is a failure or is bringing about these misfortunes that you are speak- ing of? Mr. BoGAEDUs. One of the things that has brought about these conditions. Mr. Mats. The breaking up of the post offices ? Mr. BoGAKDUS. The breaking up of the post offices. Mr. Lafean. Do you not think the rural free delivery is an ad- vantage to the farmer ? / Mr. BoGARDus. In some sesnse ; yes. : v Mr. Lafean. In what sense is it not, for instance? Mr. BoGAEDTJs. If you will let me go along with this article, I think we will develop that point shortly. Mr. Mats. Very well, go ahead. Mr. Bogaedus. The farmers who can are leasing their farms and going to the city to live. You gentlemen who know anything about country life know that tenantry do not develop the highest ^ade of country life, neither do they make such a life attractive to the coming generation. The postal rate for merchandise in England is 9.8 cents per pound, and is not a paying proposition, although the average haul is but 40 miles. Mr. Weeks. How do you know it is not a paying proposition? Mr. BoGAEDTTs. There is a certain amount of guesswork in that, it is impossible for us to get any definite reports from England. The gentlemen who were in favor of parcels post here last spring discussed the question, but they were unable to bring us any definite figures— did not, as you will notice in the report. There were no definite figures furnished, and the assumption is that it is a losing proposition, on the ground that if it was not they would be crowing over it. The blind postmaster, when he inaugurated a parcels post, reported for the first two or three years and then stopped, because the deficit was getting bigger every year. Mr. Gregg. Where do you live ? Mr. BoGAEDTJS. I live in Mount Vernon, Ohio. Mr. Geegg. What is the size of that place? Mr. Bogardtjs. 10,000 inhabitants. Mr. Gregg. Do they have a parcels post going out from there? Mr. Bogardtjs. We have rural free delivery, eight or nine lines go- ing from there. Mr. Gregg. I had a man in my office at home who complained about having to walk half a mile for his mail. Do you think that PAECEIiS POST. 293 is right, that he ought to walk half a mile, or do you think he ought to walk farther ? Mr. BoGAKDUs. I think if we are going to have rural free delivery we ought to give every fellow a chance. In the country you will notice along the roads small boxes, and the farmers have to go anywhere from 100 yards to half a mile to get the mail. Mr. Geegg. Do you have your mail delivered to your place of business ? ^Mr. BoGAEDus. No; I would rather go to the post office. ' Mr. Gkegg. I mean in the city ? Mr. BoGAEDtrs. Yes, they do deliver it; but I prefer to go after mine. Mr. Gbegg. It is just a matter of choice with you ? Mr. BoGABDtrs. Yes ; a matter of choice and convenience. Is it not absurd to undertake to transport goods in this country with its vast distances at 8 cents per pound ? Let us see how it would work. The express companies pay the railroads from three-fourths of a cent to 1 cent per pound for the transportation of goods. The Govern- ment pays 5 cents for a similar service. The express companies get the short hauls and leave the long ones for the Government. But it is proposed that the Government take over the express and monop- olize the carrying of parcels up to 11 pounds in weight. Such a law might be made, but will the courts sustain the Government iii its contention that the way to get low rates is to monopolize the car- riage of packages and drive private competition to the wall, using the taxes' paid by the private individual to help ruin him and his business ? Is it the best way to regulate the business of the country for the Government to go into business in order to break down industries ? Would it not be better for the Government to undertake to regulate and ^ide commercial enterprises rather than to try to own them? If it IS right for the Government to monopolize the carrying of pack- ages up to 11 pounds, will that be the limit? If the right is con- ceded, will not a larger limit be demanded? If the Government can own the express companies, why not the railroads ? If it can own the transportation facilities, why not the manufacturing inter- ests? Why should we let the vain imaginations of our minds govern us when we have learned from the school of experience better things? Australia is a fair sample of the results that come from trying all sorts of socialistic schemes for the improvement of the conditions of the public. From 1881 to 1891 the mcrease in population was 41 per cent.. It is now about 17 per cent.' Students of these subjects say that the decrease can largely be charged to the socialistic experiments of the Government. Progress is all right, but to go off on a tangent is not wise. If the express companies were absorbed by the Govern- ment, could it forbid others from engaging in the busmess? On what ground could enterprise by private parties be choked off? If these things can be done, what kind of a government have we? With the' Government undertaking to regulate the affairs of the people by entering into competition with private enterprise, what have we. left to look forward to? Is it not better to regulate and have a supervision of the interstate industries rather than to try to compete with them or undertake to own them? This country has achieved its greatness by the activity of the individual, sometimes in 294 PARCELS POST. combination and sometimes alone. To take away the incentives to individual or corporate effort would be to reduce the country to the condition that is staring the Australians in the face to-day. The parcels post has always proven a losing proposition, even in the thickly settled portions or Europe. Germany makes a claim of a $20,000,000 surplus. But there is no allowance for transportation, and that means 20 per cent in this country, and the receipts for tele- graph service are counted in as part of the income of the department. Figured as we have to figure it in this country, it would mean *b, deficit of $10,000,000, even with the receipts from telegraphic service added. You will find the reports from the German Government in the report of parcels post made here a year ago last spring. Who are the people who want parcels post? The opponents of parcels post are accused of selfishness because they oppose it. Let us see how the others are. If the railroads can get five times as much for carrying merchandise as mail, as they are now getting for carry- ing the same merchandise by express, would you not think that they would favor it and have a lobby here to advance the passage of the law? If the catalogue house and the mail-order house could get a larger clientage by having the Government deliver goods to any part of the country as cheaply as to the near-by town, would you not think that they would have their agents here to quietly labor for the pas- sage of such a measure ? (Hon. James T. Lloyd, chairman, took the chair.) The Chairman. Is it not true that the railroad companies are in- terested in the express companies ? Mr. BoGAEDTjs. That is the report. The Chairman. Is it not true that they own the principal part of the stock of the express companies ? Mr. Bogardus. That is the report. The Chairman. And, therefore, wherever the express companies would be benefited the railroad companies would be benefited, and they would be concerned in retaining the express companies, because they are the beneficiaries of the express companies. Mr. Bogardus. But if you were an owner of express stock and rail- road stock, and could get 5 cents for a package when you could get only 1 cent another way, would you not take the 5 cents ? The Chairman. I am not answering questions; I am asking them. Mr. Bogardus. I am simply submitting that as a plain proposition. Mr. Weeks. Let me call your attention to the statement that you are assuming that it costs five times as much for the Government to transport mail matter as for express companies to transpott express matter over the railroads. Mr. Bogardus. That is as near as I can get to facts. Mr. Weeks. You are away off on your facts. If you. are basing an argument on any such statement as that, your argument can not amount to much, because that is not correct. Mr. Bogardus. Mr. Meyer, in his report, said it was 8 cents. The Chairman. You have the wrong statement, I think; or else we do not understand you. Postmaster General Meyer stated in his report that it cost 8 cents a pound to handle every pound of mail matter ; that is the point you are getting at. Mr. Bogardus. Yes. PARCELS POST. 295 The Chairman. But it does not mean that the railroad companies get tiiat 8 cents ; the railroad companies only receive less than 3 cents of that 8. Mr. BoGAEDus. Even at 3 cents, it would be three times as much. Mr. Weeks. You know there are very different conditions in the manner in which these services are performed by the Government and the express companies, do you not? Mr. BoGAEDus. Yes. Mr. Weeks. That the railroad does very much more for the Gov- ernment than it does for the express companies, in service ? Mr. BoGAEDUS. I do not know that it does. Mr. Weeks. That is the fact. Mr. BoGAEDUs. I know that the railroad furnishes the express com- panies their express cars, and gives them all the facilities necessary to carrytheir express from one point to another. Mr. Weeks. Do you know how much the express companies pay out of their gross earnings ? Mr. BoGAEDtrs. About 50 per cent. Mr. Weeks. Do you know how much the Government pays out of the gross earnings of the Post Office Department for the transporta- tion of mail ? Mr. BoGARDTJS. I should judge, from the way the Government does business, two or three times as much. Mr. Weeks. About 22 per cent; less than half, in percentage, of the gross earnings, what the express companies pay. The Chairman. You may now go ahead; it was not our intention to interrupt you. Mr. BoGAEDtrs. I am very glad to get these facts. I got a different line of facts when I was here a year ago last spring, and I was basing my argument on those figures. Now, I am up against another lot of facts, and you wiU have to understand that I am basing my argument, not on what I hear to-day, but what I heard a year ago. The Chairman. Let us understand you. Is your argument to-day based upon what was brought out at the hearing a year ago? Mr. BoGARDus. Yes. The Chairman. And it is a deduction from those hearings ? Mr. BoGARDus. Yes. The Chairman. Have you any additional facts with reference to the matter since that ? Mr. BoGAEDtrs. I have not been able to get any. The Chairman. Then you do not expect to give us any light? Mr. BoGAEDUs. Only from the inferences that I draw from these things. I come up for light, too. The Chairman. You have been here before; you know this com-, mittee is not unfriendly to anybody ; we want to get at the facts, too. Mr. BoGAEDus. I understand that thoroughly. The Chaieman. Some people conclude that because we ask some pretty hard questions here we are antagonistic. It does not follow at all, on either side. • • j? ■ j Mr. BoGAEDus. I understand you occupy the position of a ]udge, thoroughly impartial. If the city newspapers and magazines could get a larger line of advertising because of the extended facilities for the delivery of 296 PABCEIiS POST. goods offered to the big city stores by the passage of this bill, would they not favor parcels post, as they are now doing? They are so strongly in favor of the measure that they refuse to publish anything in opposition to the measure. Mr. Weeks. Do they refuse to do that? Mr. BoGAEDus. They refused me. I tried "World's Work and two or three other magazines, and they said they were not discussing that question just now, or something to that effect. Mr. Weeks. I suppose they would have published what you wanted to give them charging advertising rates for it? Mr. BoGAEDus. Yes. The Chaieman. Do you want to be understood as saying that the World's Work would accept an article in favor of parcels post and would not accept an article in opposition to parcels post ? Mr. BoGABDUS. I do; I tried it. Our farmer friends never favored parcels post until the officers of the various organizations sent word down to the smaller bodies that parcels post would cure all their ills. And there has been a diligent effort by parties interested to create a feeling among farmers that they have been systematically robbed by the middle man, and that the only remedy was to have a parcels ^ post. The Chaieman. Is it not true that all the retail associations of the United States have notified the individual retail dealers of the coun- try to notify their Congressman how strongly they are opposed to parcels post, so that your organizations — several organizations — are doing exactly what the farmers' organizations are doing on the op- posite side? Mr. BoGAEDus. Just with this difference, Mr. Chairman : The oppo- sition on the part of the men, especially in the hardware business-^ I am a hardware man — comes from the bottom up. The men came there and demanded these resolutions repudiating parcels post. The Farmers' Alliance, the Grange, and all that sort of thing came from up above down. That is the difference. The Chairman. Just at that juncture, would you have us under- stand that those a£ the top were in favor of parcels post, and that they are influenced to oppose parcels post because those at the bottom, as you term it, were opposed to it? Mr. BoGABDTTS. How is that ? The Chaieman. Would you have us believe that those at the top of your organization were favorable to parcels post urttil they heard from those at the bottom? Mr. BoGAEDUS. No; I understood that the officers of our associa- tion and all the members laiew nothing about this subject until' it came up, and we commenced to study it with the private members of our State association and called the matter up before the associa- tions. Then we commenced to take action. The Chairman. Let me see if I understand you. The Member of. Congress here is from the bottom, as you term it. Do you not notify, through your several organizations, the individual retail dealer to write to his Member of Congress and give his reasons for opposing parcels post? Mr. BoGARDus.: Not as an initiative. You get that difference, not as an initiative, but as a part of the policy in organizing the fight against parcels post. PABOELS POST. 297 The Chairman. Is it not true, in reference to the Grange and other farmers' organizations, that those favoring parcels post do so because the individual granger — the individual member of the or- ganization—insists upon the parcels post?,, Mr. BoGAEDUS. There may be something of that kind now, but it (lid not start that way. The Chairman. Did not start that way? Mr. BoGARDTTS. No, sir. The Chairman. Do you know how it started? Mr. BoGAEDiTS. It started from the top. The Chairman. Who started it ? Mr. BoGAEDUS. The leaders thought there was a point there. The Chairman. Do you know who started it ? Mr. BoGARDtrs. No ; I do not. The Chairman. Have you any knowledge on the subject yourself? Mr. BoGAEDUS. Only from what the farmers in our vicinity say. It is a matter of indifference to them, and a great many of them were opposed to it until their grange took action, something of that kind. The Chairman. You mean until the National Grange took action ? Mr. BoGAEDus. Until their grange took action, on a suggestion from the National Grange. The Chaieman. Go ahead, now. Mr. BoGAEDTJS. I have never been in the grange, following their private work ; but that is as near as I can get at it from the way they talk to me. The Department of Justice of our country is to-day seek- ing to curb the greed and monopolistic tendencies of the great aggre- gations of capital that have grown strong and are reaching out to control .and monopolize the commerce of the country and to brealr down all competition. Is it wise for Congress to make laws that will develop further combinations of capital that will ride over and break down the small business men of the land? Already one concern boasts of annual sales that reach up toward $60,000,000, an average of 66 cents for every man, woman, and child in this country. _ All of that trade comes from the country, for such firms do not solicit city trade. Is it fair to the country at large to further develop such concerns? The Chairman. What do you say to the propriety of the farmer, if he can, sending to a department store and obtaining the things that he needs for his home at a less price than he can obtain them from the retail merchant at home; do you think he ought to do it? Mr. BoGARDTJs. I think he does do it. The Chairman. I am not asking that question. Do you think he ought to do it? Mr. BoGAEDus. I think there are several conditions, several things, to be taken into consideration in regard to that question. The natural tendency of you and, me and most of us would be to do that thing, if we could save money by sending away. The Chaieman. As a hardware man, do you not trade with the hardware company that gives you the best bargains ? Mr. BoGAEDus. I certainly do. ; The Chaieman. And you do not care whether it is in New York or in Cincinnati? Mr. BoGAEDus. No. 298 PABCELS POST, The Chairman. The farmer, on the same principle, would not care where he bought his goods, whether he bought them from the little town where he lived, or whether he bought them from Chicago or New York ; he would buy them where he could buy them cheapest, Mr. BoGARDUs. The conditions are entirely different between the retailer, who goes to the jobber for his goods, and the farmer, who goes to the retailer for his goods. The Chairman. What is the difference ? Mr. BoGARDtJS. For this reason: That the retailer is in his com- munity ; he is a part and parcel of it ; he helps to support the com- munity; he pays the taxes, makes contributions to this thing and that, and without him there the ha,mlet or the town would have gone to pieces. The Chairman. Are you not a part of the State in which you live? Mr. BoGARDUs. Yes. The Chairman. Can you not buy everything in the hardware line that you want somewhere in the State of Ohio? Mr. BoGARDUs. I do — most of it. The Chairman. But if you can buy something a little cheaper in New York you send to New York and get it ? Mr. BoGARDus. We can not. I used to buy in New York. Mr. Gregg. If you could, you would ? Mr. BoGARDtrs. Possibly. The Chairman. If you could buy cheaper in New York than in Ohio, you would? Mr. Bogardus. Possibly. The Chairman. Are you not violating the same principle of loy- alty to your State or locality that the farmer is when he trades else- where? Mr. BoGARDTTS. Hardly, for the reason that the State is so much larger than the conmiunity. The direct effect on the entire State The Chairman. Wait a minute. Do you think the direct effect on the State would be any worse if every hardware dealer in the State of Ohio would buy in some other State because he could buy his hardware goods just a little bit cheaper than he could in his State; would that not be a serious detriment to the State ? Mr. BoGARDtrs. It might. The Chairman. Would it not be far more detrimental to the State than for the farmer to buy his goods elsewhere ? Mr. Bogardus. No, sir. The jobber is simply a distributor; he can be gotten along without. The Chairman. The difference between the jobber and the farmer is that the jobber is a kind of middleman and the farmer is a con- sumer ? Mr. Bogardus. Yes. There is great stress put upon the statement that we can send a package to foreign countries for less than we can send it from one place to another in our own country. This is but half truth. It is true that we can send even pounds to a foreign country for less money than we can send such a package from one place to another in this country, but should our package weigh but 17 ounces it would cost but 17 cents; but should we try to send 17 ounces across the sea it would cost 24 cents. It is not a fair basis for comparison, for foreign shipments are based on pound imits, PARCELS POST. 299 while home shipments are based on ounces as base units. To handle parcels post nearly every post office would have to be enlarged to carry more than the present load by rural carriers ; his facilities will have to be increased. A load of 500 pounds would be impossible with the present outfit. To use automobiles is a plan that has been discarded as not satisfactory on account of expense and danger of breakdown. I am much obliged to you gentlemen for your attention. Mr. CoEET. Mr. Chairman, you will readily see, before you get through with these people, that they are not experts along the line of postal matters. All who are here to-day are business men, and they are, perhaps, conversant with certain phases of this subject which might appeal to them as being pertinent, and yet there are other things which they do not understand. The Chairman. If there is any branch of the subject that we in- quire about, and your people do not wish to answer the inquiries because they are not qualified to answer, just let them say so. We have no disposition to interrogate except to get information, and where they have information on a given line, we are very glad to hear them ; but if they do not know anything about a given subject we would rather they would not attempt to elucidate it. Mr. CoRET. You asked a question a minute ago which, with your permission, I would like to touch upon, because I am secretary of this association, which has members in 38 States, and it is a fact that we have at times sent out word that the parcels-post subject was before Congress, we will say, and if they are interested in the matter to write to their Senator or to their Representative, and tell him how they stand on the proposition. I will go further, and state that through our newspapers the same thing has been printed, and you will only have to go a little further and you will find it all along the line. We just considered it in the line of information, and therefore legitimate. The Chairman. You are aware of the fact, of course, that numbers of the retail dealers send your letters to us? Mr. CoEEY. They may ; I do not know. The Chahjman. So that we have your letters. Mr. Corey. Yes, sir. The Chahsman. And some of the head men in the various retail organizations may write that kind of a letter ; but we get letters that are very much stronger. Mr. Corey. That is all true. I am not giving you the exact words. I just say, "Write to your Congressman." Mind you, these sub- jects have been discussed year after year in our convention, and our position is known. It is merely to let the Congressman know that position. That is what we ask. The Chairman. Just in that connection, as far as your connection with the organization is concerned, you never write anything but that kind of a letter ? Mr. Corey. That is the sum and substance and the meaning of the letter. I will not say those are the words. The Chairman. Have you a copy of one of those letters? Mr. Corey. No, sir ; I have not. I can send it to you, if you wish it. We will now call upon Mr. Wells, who represents the State Business Men's Association and the Merchants' Association of Connecticut. 300 PAKCELS POST. STATEMENT OF EALPH 0. WEILS, ESQ., OF HARTFORD, CONN., ATTORNEY REPRESENTING THE STATE BUSINESS MEN'S ASSOCIATION. Mr. Wells. Mr. Chairman, I am here representing the State Busi- ness Men's Association, which is comprised of 4,000 business firms of the State and 15,000 individuals ; also representing the Merchants' Association, which is comprised of the department stores — about 35 or 40 — in the State of Connecticut; practically all the large depart- ment stores. Mr. Weeks. What authority have you for representing these people ? Mr. Wells. I have a retainer from them ; I am an attorney. The merchants, and particularly the department stores, oppose a parcels post because they believe that if you establish a parcels post you will not establish a self-sustaining parcels post. If it pays its own way, I do not think there will be any serious opposition from the merchants. But the bill, as I understand it, which is before you, is a bill providing for an 8-cent-a-pound rate, or a cent for every 2-ounce rate for the long-distance parcel ; and from 1 cent to 10 cents per parcel on the local business, with a maximum limit of 11 pounds, which is the limit for foreign matter. On that basis the merchants feel that the parcels post will not be self-sustaining; and that, as a consequence, it will furnish a service to the mail-order houses, with which they are in competition now, at less than cost and consequently will be unfair to the local merchants. The Chairman. From whom will that service come? Mr. Wells. That sei^ice will come out of the other post-office receipts. The Chairman. Oh, no. You say that the department houses of Connecticut oppose it because this particular rate would seriously interfere, through competition, with them ; from what concerns would that competition come? Mr. Wells. From the large mail-order houses, located in the large centers, such as New York, Chicago, and Philadelphia. The Chairman. Then you simply represent small mail-order houses ? Mr. Wells. I represent, not the mail-order houses at all, but the department stores, the local merchants. The Chairman. You represent no mail-order houses ? Mr. Wells. I represent no mail-order houses, merely the local merchants. Mr. Gregg. Do any of your clients do a mail-order business? Mr. Wells. I think not; certainly not an extensive one. They might do a small mail-order business on the side, but not as a primary business. They feel, also, that if it is not self-sustaining it will delay the time when the first-class postage rate will be reduced. The first- class postage rate, as you gentlemen know, at present costs a little more than half the revenue which it brings in. If it were reduced to a cent an ounce instead of 2 cents an ounce, it would somewhat increase the volume of the first-class postage rate and would probably just about pay its way, because, of course, the larger the volume of busi- ness, to some extent the cheaper it can be done. So that they feel that if the other departments of the post office, the other classes of PARCELS POST. 301 mail, were self-sustaining, then the cost of postage on first-class matter would ultimately be reduced to a cent an ounce, and that would mean a saving to a department store in a city of 100,000 inhabitants, for instance, of about $2,000 or $3,000 a year. The de- partment stores pay now, in first-class postage, from $4,000 to $6,000 a year in our larger Connecticut cities, and consequently a fraction of $2,000 or $3,000 is, to a comparatively small merchant, as com- pared with the large stores in the large centers in the country, a material saving. Mr. Gregg. What do they spend that much money for? Mr. Wells. Largely for the bills which they send out ; some for advertising and some for miscellaneous stuff— principally bills and receipts. Those figures are exact because I obtained them as late as yesterday from the Howland Dry Goods Co. in Bridgeport, which IS one of the larger stores in Bridgeport. I obtained them from the manager there. The department stores and the merchants feel that the 8-cent-a -pound rate for the long-distance business, and the 1 to 10 cent a package rate for the short-distance business can not be made a paying proposition. Take the short-distance business first. The depfartment stores run their own delivery systems and they know what it costs. A business man going into business keeps a pretty careful tab on the cost of his various classes of service and what they bring him in, and the business men find that in the Connecticut cities the cost of the delivery service to the larger department stores is about 5 cents a stock, which means approximately 5 cents a package,- In the New York department stores it is higher; it is about 8 cents a stock. It varies a little bit with the stores, but I think there is no store which manages the service in a city of 75,000 inhabitants or more for less than 4 cents a stock. . Mr. Weeks. How large a territory do they deliver to? Mr. Wells. That is within the city limits. That would be a radius of about 2 miles from the center in a city of 75,000 to 100,000. In New York it would be a larger radius. Mr. Weeks. Do the department stores in New Haven, for instance, deliver outside of the city limits? Mr. Wells. Yes ; but I have not taken that in. Mr. Weeks. Do you know how much it costs them to do that ? Mr. Wells. Yes. I can not give you figures from a New Haven store, but I can from a Bridgeport store. There they say that the rm:al delivery — the delivery to the outlying towns, which they reach with their own teams rather than send by express — costs them about 8 cents a stock, according to the radius which they deliver — the longer the radius the greater the cost per stock. Mr. Weeks. Of course. Mr. Wells. And the cost per stock increases proportionately to the increase in the radius. Mr. Lai'ean. Do you have any figures that will give the average weight of a package delivered ? Mr. Wells. Yes. They tell me the average weight of a package delivered is about 5 pounds for the ordinary city delivery. That may vary. I took that from the manager of one of the department stores. But, so far as I know, he does not weigh his packages, so that I do not take it that the figure is absolute. But his shippmg clerks, in conjunction with himself, decided that that was approxi- mately the average weight — around about 5 pounds. 302 PABCBLS POST. Mr. Weeks. Mr. Wells, will you not have those people weigh the packages for a week ? Mr. Wells. I will be very glad to have that done. Mr. Weeks. And send us that weight ? Mr. Wells. Yes. , . , » Mr. Weeks. It strikes me that 5 pounds is very high for the average weight. I should like to know. Mr. Lafean. And the average distance. Mr. Wells. Yes. I will get you those figures. Would you like to have them for a longer period than a week ? Mr. Weeks. I think a week would be enough. Mr. Wells. Would you like to have them from a number of stores? Mr. Lafean. Yes. Mr. Wells. About four or five stores would be enough, in differ- ent cities. I will get you those. In general, the private individual or the private corporation can do business cheaper than the Government. I take it it is not neces- sary to go into details on that. I have not been connected with the National Government, but I have been connected with the city government of Hartford for a number of years, and at the present time am a member of the street board, which has charge of the highway work and spends about half of the city's money. So that I know something about the cost of running a city government — ^and we have no graft there. We have a very clean government, and run by public-spirited men, for the most part. The leading insur- ance presidents — and you know we do a big insurance business in Hartford — and the bank presidents go into the government there. It is a public-spirited place. And yet our work can be done cheaper, for the most part, by con- tractors or by private individuals than it can by the city, because we pay larger wages for shorter hours and there is more red tape to it; and I take it that applies also in the National Government. It cer- tainly does in the Post OfiGice Department. A private corporation distributing a large amount of envelopes at a single time — for in- stance, a gas company distributing its monthly bills — finds it cheaper, in general, to distribute them by hand than by mail. A department store distributing advertising material, circulars, finds it cheaper to send out a boy with them to distribute them by hand than to send them at 1 cent apiece through the mail. And yet I see by the figures in this book, with which you gentlemen are all familiar, compiled by the Post Office Department, that the first-class mail matter costs the Government a fraction over a cent a piece for carriage. (Post Office Department. Cost of transporting and handling the several classes of mail matter, and of conducting the registry, money-order, and special-delivery services. Statement showing the estimates and the processes by which they were made.) Of course that includes the long distance. When you come to the short-distance haul and the rural free-delivery route it seems to me inconceivable that the Gov- ernment can do the work cheaper than the merchant who is doing a large business in the same locality. But beyond that fact, the Gov- ernment has got to collect the packages as well as deliver them. You wiU notice that the department store, in its delivery system, starts all its packages at the store, at the central station, and sends them out. They go over the ground only once. Your rural free delivery, PABCBLS POST. 303 or your parcels post, does not start its package at the post office, but the package emanates at the post box, located some distance off, and is brought into the post office and carried out again, and I do not believe you can perform that double service cheaper than the depart- ment store can perform the single service, even though you perform more of it. Mr. Weeks. Is not that an assumption that that is the case? Suppose we establish a rural parcels post, might we not make it a regulation that the package should be deposited in the post office? Mr. Wells. Yes, you could ; but, of course, if that were done, the farmer who wants to bring in a package to mail has to bring it into the post office, which is an inconvenience. It seems to me, if you are going to establish a rural parcels post, it is only fair to carry the parcel in as well as the parcel out; otherwise, you are performing only half the service. Mr. Weeks. That is true. But you do not quite understand me. I assumed that you were assuming that the parcel would be deposited at a letter box in the city and taken from there to the post office, and then turned over to the rural carrier. Mr. Wells. I take it that the parcels will come in from the country, as weH as go out to the country. Mr. Weeks. Of course. Mr. Wells. But I also take it that the parcels will, as you say, to some extent, be deposited in the cities in boxes, which we now have around our city streets for packages, and collected there and taken to the central office, and from there taken out, either to points in the city or to points in the country, as the case maj^ be. I think it is a fair assumption under the bill which is now before you. The Chaikman. There is no suggestion of change in the system in any of the bills pending, is there ? Mr. Wells. Not so far as I know. The Chairman. I mean the system of collection and delivery? Mr. Wells. I think not. You gentlemen are more familiar with the bills, of course, than I am ; but I have not seen anything that has led me to suppose that there is such a method contemplated. Mr. Weeks. Before you continue your argument, let me ask you another question : Have any of these department stores in Connecti- cut employed the local express services for the delivery of their parcels, either in the cities or into the surrounding country ? Mr. Wells. Yes; they do use the local service somewhat — the trolley express service. But the cost of that service is not included in the figures which I gave you. Mr. Weeks. Is that service cheaper than for them to make their own deliveries? Mr. Wells. For a long distance; yes. They make their own de- liveries, where they can, cheaper than by sending by express. Of course, the business man tries to do his business in the cheapest way he can. Mr. Weeks. Do you know any case where the department store has made a contract with an express company to deliver all of its packages within a certain territory? Mr. Wells. No, I do not; it may be so, but I do not know any such case. Mr. Weeks. I think that is done in some of the larger cities. 304 PABCELS POST. Mr. "Wells. Some of the smaller concerns sometimes combine in a delivery system. But I do not know of any department store that has ever gone into a combination of that kind. Mr. "Weeks. Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that if the witness should obtain any information as to the cost of that service he furnish it to the committee ? Mr. "Wells. I will be very glad to do that also. The Chairman. Let me say, in this general connection, I am very sure this committee will appreciate any information you can give us along that line, because you are discussing a new phase of the case. We would be very glad to get anything that is new, and any reliable data that you can give us along the lines that you have been indicating we would be very glad to have. Mr. Wells. I will be very glad to furnish the committee any in- formation they wish, because what we want is a businesslike parcels post, if we are going to have one ; and if it is not a sound, business jjroposition, then we believe we ought not to have it. Right in that connection, the express company does the work to- day which the parcels post is designed to do. I take it the post oflBce carries intelligence, carries letters and magazines, principally, rather than merchandise; and it seems to me that the carriage of intelligence is more properly a governmental function than the car- riage of merchandise, because the carriage of intelligence is, to a certain extent, educative in its influence, and, consequently, the carriage of literature at a loss, as distinguished from the carriage of advertising matter, for instance, or the carriage of merchandise, seems to me not an improper thing for the Government to do. But, when it comes to the carriage of merchandise, it seems to me that is purely a matter of dollars and cents, and the Government ought to get at it on a businesslike basis and make it pay its own way. The express companies are doing the business to-day which the parcels post is designed to do. They are carrying the merchandise; they are private corporations, and they are handled economically. There has been some complaint of large dividends, but somehow that does not appeal to me very much. If I were a stockholder I would be very glad to get dividends. The Chairman. Let me ask you, in that connection, have you given the question consideration as to whether it is possible to do away with the express company, allowing the Government to do the small part of its business and the railroad companies to do the large part of its business ? Mr. Wells. I presume that would be possible. I have not given that any particular thought. But I should question the desirability of it. The Chairman. If you have not given it thought, I will not ask you about it at all. It is the subjects that you have considered we will be glad to hear you about. Mr. Wells. The express company, doing the business which the parcels post is designed to do, and being a private corporation, can do it cheaper than the Government can do it, I think. If, as a mat- ter of fact, it is not doing it cheaper than the Government can do it, and ought to do it cheaper than it does do it, then have we not the remedy through the Interstate Commerce Commission for the inter- state business and through the State commissions for the intrastate PARCELS POST. 305 business? Have you not the remedy by which you can compel the express company, the private corporation, to do that service at a reasonable cost; and if so, is there any reason why the Government should take the business which the express company is doing? I take it there are two possibilities. The Government has a mo- nopoly of the first-class mail matter at the present time by law. It is illegal for anybody to start up a corporation to carry what is now carried, substantially, by first-class mail. I do not know whether it is the intention to extend that governmental artificial monopoly over all packages up to 11 pounds or not. If you do extend it, and if you maire the same price for a package going from New York to the Philippine Islands that you do for a package going from New York to Buffalo, then, if you make a profit on the package going from New York to Buffalo, you are going to make a losSj presumably, on the package going from New York to, the Philippine Islands, and the man whose business lies between New York and Buffalo is pay- ing part of the cost of the service rendered to the man whose business lies between New York and the Philippine Islands; so that you are taking money out of the one man's pocket and putting it into an- other man's pocket, which seems to us also to be unfair. Mr. Weeks. We are doing that in all classes of mail. Mr. Wells. That is true ; and, to a certain extent, that is proper in other classes of mail. It is a form of indirect taxation. And mail- being a carrier of intelligence, and educative in its influence, is a- thing that can properly be supported by taxation, either direct or in- direct. But when you are carrying merchandise, doing merely an express business, then it seems to me that argument, based upon the educational feature of the business, disappears, and the reason for allowing that indirect taxation to exist no longer applies, no longer' exists, and therefore the rule itself, the custom itself, should noti exist. The Chairman. Have you given the question any thought as fa whether the Government should extend its monopoly to other classes, of mail ? Mr. Wells. It would seem to be undesirable. I have given it somet thought. It seems to me that I ought to be allowed to have my pack- ages transported as cheaply as possible. I think, in general, it is; undesirable. I think it is bad political economy to make a man pur- chase in a higher priced market, by law, than he is compelled to pur- chase in by economics. I am a Republican, but still somewhat of a free trader, I fear. Consequently, it seems to me a little unjust to compel me to pay 60 cents to carry a package, if I can get somebody else to do it for 25 cents, merely liecause the Government is carrying packages for somebody else that cost the Government 50 cents, but foe which he is paying only 25 cents. You are taxing me indirectly to help out the other man, a matter of transporting merchandise. If you do not establish a governmental, a legal, artificial monopoly in packages under 11 pounds, then the express company will take the business, which the express company can do cheaper than the Govern- ment It will do the short-haul business, and the business in the con- gested or well-populated communities. You know that is so. I have, worked in banks and in insurance offices during my vacations, while I was at college and at the law school and in the high school, and the 3110—11 20 306 PARCELS POST. rule always was, when sending out a package, to send it by mail or by express, according as one was cheaper than the other, and that is sound business. It is the proper thing to do, in my estimation. Con- sequently, where the express company can profitably underbid the Government, it is good to do that; it is sound business sense. The result is that the only parcels of any considerable weight which the Government will carry will be the long-haul parcels, or the parcels which the express company can not economically handle; in other words, the express comj^any will do the profitable business and the Government will do the losing business. The Chairman. Can that not be remedied, in whole or in part^by what is termed " the zone system " of charge — that is, charging differ- ent prices for different distances of delivery ? Mr. Wells. Yes ; I think it can, in part. As yet, the zone system is the one that seems to be rather difficult of application in a country like this. Take the small country with a large center, like France^ where Paris is, in a way, the center of everything, the zone system is perhaps feasible. But you take the United States, where we have several large centers, and it seems to me the zone system would be Tcry difficult of application. Of course, you could measure it .by mileage, but when you mail 100 packages in a day, you do not want to have to stop and figure up the mileage on each package. It would be an everlasting nuisance, and I do not think a parcels post on that basis would be popular, even with the farmers. So it seems to me fhe zone system is impracticable. The Chairman. The zone system is used by express companies. "Why not use it for the mail ? Mr. Wells. For this reason : In general, when you are sending out a. package by express — or very often you take it to the central office and there they will fix a price on the package and you will pay the price asked ; or you will give it to the driver and he will fix it, and if he can not, he will come around and collect it later. As our post office is run, you have to put your stamps on, and it would be a con- siderable nuisance to go to the post office with the package and have it weighed. It would be a nuisance at the post office around Christ- mas time. You could not deliver it to the carrier and have him pay it in advance, because he will not have scales with him. The Chairman. In that connection, ^ou said the banks and insur- ance companies for which you did business sent out their packages from the banks or from the insurance company offices by the cheap- est means of transit. Mr. Wells. In general. The Chairman. How do they determine which is the cheapest means of transit? Mr. Wells. Where they are sending out a large amount of mail matter they have the scales, and the office boy weighs it. The Chairman. Why could not that be done with mail just as easily as with express? Mr. Wells. It could ; but the farmer, the small man who is not doing a large volume of business, does not keep his postal scales, as a practical matter. Mr. Gregg. You do not represent the farmer? Mr. Wells. No ; I do not represent the farmer. I was simply talk- ing on the practical question as to the possibility and feasibility of that. It does not seem to me feasible. PABCELS POST. 307 The Chairman. I diverted you there. Excuse me. Mr. Wells. I think the post-office statistics show that what I am saying is true, that the express company will take the cream of the merchandise business and leave the rest for the Government. The Chairman. I think there is no doubt of that. Mr. Wells. Because at present we have a maximum limit on fourth class matter of 4 pounds. But the statistics show that the average package weighs about one-third of a pound; it is a frac- tion over three packages to the pound, according to the statistics compiled by the Postmaster General. So it is very evident that the heavier packages are carried by the express companies, rather than by mail at the rate of 16 cents a pound. I have heard the argument presented — whether it has been pre- sented to this committee I do not know, but I presume it has — that we already have the rural free carriers, we already have the service in operation, we have the city carriers, we have the rural carriers, and they could just as well carry packages while they are carrying mail; they could carry the two together, and therefore it would not materially increase the cost of the system. But, after all, is not that fallacious? Your city carrier — at least the city car- rier who comes out my way — looks as though he had his hands pretty nearly full with his mail bag, and if he is going to carry any considerable number of packages he has to have a wagon, or else he has to cover a shorter route. The carriers, in the city at least, so far as my personal observation goes — and you gentlemen have just as much means of observation as I have on that. — -work now pretty nearly the limit, and if you are going to increase the amount of mail matter they must carry, you will have to increase the number of carriers ; so that the expense will go up pretty nearly in the same pro- portion with the amount they carry. And so with the carrier on the rural delivery route. He has his bioycle, or his pack horse, or his little dinky wagon; it is a light service. He can make considerable speed. He goes along rapidly over the ground, because he has only a light weight, comparatively, to carry. You load him up with a considerable amount of bulkier packages, with a larger weight; the growth would be more or less slow, more or less gradual, and as your growth increases your equipment has to be heavier. The man will gradually rise from the bicycle, or the little dinky one-horse, two-wheeled wagon, up to the Adams Express wagon, or the heavier express wagon, with the team of horses ; and, of course, the heavier the equipment the slower the speed, and the more the expense of maintenance. ■ Now, take the sorting in the central post office. However it may be in other cities I have no personal knowledge, but in Hartford the sorters seem to keep pretty busy, because, at times, when there is a sudden influx of the mail, or when there is, as recently, a case where the post-office department wants the mail weighed for a time, and some extra work must be done, the mails get clogged, and conse- quently the sorters have all the work they can do. It is a very different proposition to sort and stamp a large number of letters where you can hold a bunch of letters in your hand and put them in the 'box from what it is to sort a large number of packages of miscellaneous sizes and weights; and the more matter you have to sort, and particularly the more matter of the package size and of the 308 PAKCELS POST. package weight, the more help you have to have; and, -consequently, your expense there goes up in proportion to the service which you do. And so with your facilities. We have had a recent extension of the post office in Hartford, but even so the post office is now worked to pretty near its full capacity, and if you are going to com- bine with it an express business, i'f you are going to combine with it the carriage of parcels up to 11 pounds, then, ultimately, and prob- ably in the very near future, you will have to increase the floor space. The Chaieman. May I ask you this question in that connection: If the law were changed so that the packages were carried for 8 cents a pound and the minimum weight were 11 pounds, do you think the Government would do an express business in small packages ? Mr. Wells. Not unless you have a governmental monopoly. You would on the long-distance matter, but not on the short distance, except for packages of one or two pounds. The Chairman. The only difference would be to extend the zone within which the express companies would do business? Mr. Wells. I do not believe I get your question. The CHAiRitfAK. In other words, if now they carried the pack- age for a distance of 2,000 miles, if you cut 'down the rate to 8 cents instead of 16, they would carry it 1,000 ; in other words, would not this bill have the effect of increasing the business of the express company rather than decreasing it? Mr. Wells. No; I think it will decrease it. The Chairman. Will it not extend the zone within which the ex- press company does business? Mr. Wells. No; I think it will tend to decrease the zone, because if the Government carries packages for a longer distance at half the price at which it now carries them, more people and more pack- ages will use the mail than now use it. The Chairman. Then, you think I stated it just the opposite of what it is ? Mr. Wells. Just the reverse. The Chairman. That it will cut down the distance within which the packages can be carried by express? Mr. Wells. Yes; because the cheaper the Government can do it, the more the Government will do. If I take a package which weighs 2 pounds, and send it from Hartford to New York, it will cost me 25 cents by express ; it will now cost me 32 cents by mail, so I send it by express. But if we reduce the rate to 8 cents, then it will cost me 16 cents to send that 2-pound package, so I will send it by mail, and to that extent the Government will be carrying that pack- age at a loss, and the express company will not be doing the business. I am taking a good deal of time. I do not feel as though I really ought to take so much, but there is just one more matter I want to call to your attention. Mr. Weeks. Before you take that up, have you any idea how much floor space is needed by the large express companies to conduct their business ; is there anything in their reports, or elsewhere, to indicate that? Mr. Wells. I can not give you any statistics on it. I can not give you the square-feet area ; but I know, as a matter of fact, how large the offices are which they find necessary in Hartford. PARCELS POST. 309 Mr. Weeks. Do you think it would be a fair conclusion that the Government would have to extend its post offices to an amount of space equal to that given up by the express company ? Mr. Wells. Yes. ■ Mr. Weeks. In other words, you think they economize space as much as they can? • Mr. Wells. I know they do. The express companies are rather niggardly in their space, and in the pay which they give their help. Mr. Weeks. How much space do they use in Hartford ? Mr. Wells. They have in all a floor space about four times the * size of this room. Mr. Weeks. Do they use as much floor space as the Government does in conducting the postal service ? Mr. Wells. No; they do not. I should say not quite; taking the two together, approximately, rather under than over. They have an office at the station and also an office in the center of the business district, for the one express company. Mr. Gkegg. Do you know how much the express companies do pay their employees in Hartford ? Mr. Wells. I can not give you the exact figures. I know that one of their drivers was working for them- about 12 hours a day, and he preferred to take a job for the city as policeman at a thousand dol' lars a year. I can not give you the exact figures. Mr. Gregg. Was he getting $60 a month? Mr. Wells. I can not tell you as to that definitely. I can get those figures for you if you wish them. Mr. Gregg. We would be glad to have any figures that would show the comparison of labor. Mr. Wells. I shall be A'ery glad to fiind them for you if I can. At the present time the Government pays about 12 cents a pound — it costs the Government about 12 cents a pound to carry its fourth- class mail matter. But what seems to me very significant is that it costs about 9 cents a pound to carry the second-class mail matter. That second-class matter is heavy, for the bulk. Paper weighs a lot for the number of cubic feet it contains. A magazine weighs more than the average package of merchandise of the same size. Your second-class matter starte at regular intervals from regular central points, and, to a large extent, is put up in bags before it starts. So that the cost of collecting, which you have in the fourth-class mail matter and which you would have in the parcels post, collecting from a large area and the cost resulting from the fact that your parcels are of varying size, does not exist in the case of the second- class mail matter; and yet it costs the Government, under those favorable conditions, about 9 cents a pound to carry the second-class mail matter, which is more than the 8 cents a pound which is pro- posed for even a long-distance haul under the so-called Sulzer bill, which I understand is the one principally before you. So that the merchants feel— it may be wrong; it is up to you gentlemen _ to decide — that if you try to establish a parcels post you are not going to be able to make it pay its own way; that if you establish a gov- ernmental monopoly, then the short-haul man has to pay the bills for the long-haul man. If you do not establish a governmental monopoly, then the ex- press company will take the profitable business and the Government 310 PABCELS POST. will take the losing business, and in either event you will run the business at a loss; and if you run it at a loss, the result will be that, in order to make the Post Office Department pay, the first-class mail matter will have to continue to pay 2 cents an ounce, which will mean a material loss to the department stores and to the merchants on first- class matter which they handle. But it will also mean that the mail- order houses in the large centers, who now get their advertising mat- ter carried in magazines at less than cost — ^because it only pays about a cent a pound for carriage, while it costs the Government for the service 9 cents a pound — the mail-order houses, which now get their advertising carried at less than cost by the Government, will then get their packages delivered by the Government for less than cost, and thereby will, to a certain extent, come into unfair competition with the local merchants. And right there is just one more thing I want to suggest. I rather questioned in my own mind why the mail-order houses did not establish their own local delivery system and send their matter to a single central agent in the town and let him send out through that house the local delivery system. The answer is clear, because there is not any business done in any one city by any mail-order house, outside, possibly, of the very large centers, to pay to run a local sys- tem. But if you establish the parcels post, then the mail-order houses will send their packages by freight in a large case to a central agent, all marked, stamped, and ready to be delivered, and all the central agent has to do is to open the case and deposit the packages in the post office; and you can get a man for a very nominal consideration to do that. So that, if you establish this zone system, or if you estab- lish the system which is contemplated by the so-called Sulzer bill, by which packages going out to the points reached by that post office will be delivered at 1 to 10 cents a package, regardless of weight, the result will be that the mail-order houses will send a case of packages to a central agent, and he will deposit them in a central office, arid so take advantage of that zone system and that cheap rate. And they can get a man to do that, and get him very cheaply, and in that way you will tend to drive out, to kill, the local merchants in the smaller cities and the merchants in the smaller stores, because you will be giving service to the mail-order houses in the delivery of merchandise -at the expense of the local man, which seems to the local man to be unfair competition. If there is any information from the department stores whi«h you gentlemen would like, I will be very glad to get it for you. The Chairman. We are glad to get any information we can which is enlightening on the subject before us for consideration. (Thereupon, at 11.50 o'clock a. m., the committee took a recess un- til 2 o'clock p. m.) AFTER RECESS. The subcommittee reconvened, pursuant to the taking of recess, at 3 o'clock p. m., Hon. James T. Lloyd (chairman) presiding. Mr. CoHET. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, we have heard from several organizations which, on account of the extreme hot weather at this season of the year, would like to submit their objections in writ- ing, by letter, if it was admissible, on this proposition. They ex- PARCELS POST. g^l pected to send representatives here, but think that it is impossible to do It right now. Is that usual or not? I would like to ask the question. The Chaiemak. It is not usual, but if the communications are not too long Mr. CoEET. They will not be long. The Chaieman (continuing). I doubt whether there is any serious objection to it. •' Mr. CoEET. Thank you. The Chaieman. But we will reserve to ourselves the right to reiect any such communication if we think it ought to be rejected Mr. CoEET. That is entirely up to you. They would like to be represented m this matter, aijd feel that their associations are rep- resented. *^ ' The Chaieman. How long a time will they want? Mr. Corey. They will submit them within the next 10 days, we will say. It will take that long, by the time we get home and notify them and take it up with them. The Chairman. Can you not notify them from here ? Mr. -Corey. We can do it if you prefer. The Chaieman. Suppose you say on or before the 20th ? Mr. Corey. On or before the 20th— that will be all right. The next gentleman we would like to introduce represents the United Commercial Travelers, Mr. W. E. Jenkins, of Baltimore. STATEMENT OF MR. W. EDGAR JENKINS, OF BALTIMORE, MD„ REPRESENTING THE UNITED COMMERCIAL TRAVELERS AND ALSO THE MARYLAND BRANCH OF THE TRAVELERS' PROTEC- TIVE ASSOCIATION. .Mr. Jenkins. I represent the United Commercial Travelers and also the Maryland Branch of the Travelers' Protective Association. The Chaieman. One of the United States and the other of Mary- Mr. Jenkins. No ; both of them are national organizations ; but I am only representing,_ in the latter, the Maryland division. My superior officer, who will address you to-iiKprrow, is a national officer. This Association of Commercial Travelers is an association com- posed of a membership of 65,000. The other organization has in it 45,000. • We are opposed absolutely to any parcels-post bill of any kind, for this reason:- We get all over the United States and we come in contact with every wholesale merchant and retailer and coun- try store, and we find that the sentiment throughout the country among the merchants is against a parcels^post bill. The Chaieman, Have you made inquiry about the farmers where you have gone? Mr. Jenkins. We have not ; no, sir. I have made no inquiry about farmers, because we do not come in contact with the farming element We only come in contact with our customers. We believe, and we are fully convinced of the fact; that a parcels-post bill will reduce the number of merchants- throughout the country. It will cut off the "trade of. the general store, the crossroads store, and the store in the smaller town. It is going to reduce the stocks down to a point where .that merchant can not exist. 312 PARCELS POST. The Chairman. Why do you say that? Mr. Jenkins. For this reason: Take a country crossroads man. If the customers whom he has been in the habit of serving buy all their notions and laces and ribbons, and so forth, from a catalogue, it will reduce his business to the sale of nothing but heavy groceries. He can not exist on the profit of heavy groceries. And, moreover, we do not believe — and we are in a position to know — that the people tiiat would trade with catalogue houses would be really getting their goods any cheaper. You add the postage to the package they will order from a catalogue house and you will find in very many cases— in at least 90 per cent of the cases — that a man is paying just as inuch as he would pay at home ; and he would not have the selection. The Chaieman. But they are seeking to get rid of that postage. That is the purpose of a parcels post. Mr. Jenkins. The expenses have got to be added onto the goods always. If we sell a bill delivered at any point, the freight is there. They may not be able to see it, but it is on the goods. Mr. Lafean. What makes you say that the customer will buy those little novelties from a mail-order house by catalogue? Mr. Jenkins. Simply for the reason that if they have a catalogue they will sit down by the fireside and look it over and pick out these things at night that they could go to the country store and get just as well and have a much better selection and see what they are get- ling. Instead of doing that, they will sit down there and make up an order amounting a $1 or $2 and send it off, when they might just as well have given it to their store where they are in the habit of trading and let the merchant have the legitimate profit. Mr. Lafean. Do you not think that the customer would like to see what he is getting? Mr. Jenkins. Undoubtedly. ' Mr. Lafean. Do you not think that it would help the country mer- chant to keep a better stock and to keep what his customers really need? Mr. Jenkins. They do that now. They keep what they have a demand for. Mr. Lafean. Will not this create a demand ? Mr. Jenki]*s. Not at all. Mr. Lafean. Will it not induce the country merchant to keep a better line of goods? Mr. Jenkins. No; if his trade is divided. He is not getting any more now than he needs, and if you divide his trade and take part of it away from him he may have to go out of business; the stores will become fewer. We feel this way about it. I will not take your time to give you any statistics, because I have none; but if the number of our customers is reduced it is going to reduce the number of traveling salesmen. Our houses can not employ the number of men they employ now. The Chairman. What do you say to the proposition of the farmers, or the farmers' organization, that the traveling salesman is not a necessary factor in the mercantile business of the country anyhow ? Mr. Jenkins. The traveling salesman has become very necessary. That is the only way that the manufacturer and jobber have of bringing their goods to the attention of the retail merchant. It has become an established custom to send out salesmen. It is not grow- ing any less. PAECELS POST. 313 The Chairman. What do you say, then, to the farmers' proposi- tion of reaching them through the catalogue house? A farmer finds out what he wants through the catalogue house, and he sends to the catalogue house and orders goods directly from them, and in doing so he does away entirely with the middleman. What harm would it do to the country if that kind of course was pursued and the middleman was done away with ? Mr. Jenkins. Well, you would be throwing a great many people out of employment that are to-day engaged in other vocations. The Chairman. That would throw out of employment the 100,000 men who are now engaged in the sale of goods ? Mr. Jenkins. There are 600,000 men engaged in selling goods. The Chairman. Have you any statistics for that, or are you stat- ing it positively ? Mr. Jenkins. I can state positively on that — that 600,000 men, fully, are engaged in the business of commercial travelers, traveling to every city and hamlet and country store throughout this land; and it is the commercial traveler that has really built up the com- merce of this country. We are the ones who have traveled and reached every hamlet and every remote corner of the country. The Chairman. The purpose of my question was to elicit from you a reason why you should exist. Mr. Jenkins. A reason why we should exist ? The Chairman. Yes. Mr. Jenkins. Well, the reason why is because it has become the cus- tom of the manufacturers and jobbers throughout the United States to market their goods in that way. If one house did it and the others did not, that one house would get all the business, or the bulk of it at least, and competition is what has caused the commercial travelers to exist. The commercial traveler brings the goods to the merchant, right to his door, and very often at a much lower price than he could go into the open market and buy them for. There is hardly any merchant who is not glad to see a commercial traveler and look over his lines. I am a commercial traveler myself. I travel over four States. The Chairman. You say that your objection to the catalogue sys- tem is that the purchaser does not see the goods ? Mr. Jenkins. He does not see them until he gets them ; no, sir. The Chairman. Is it not true with the retail merchant that he does not see his goods until he gets them ? Mr. Jenkins. No, sir; he buys them from sample; except sugar, or something like that, which he does not have to see. The Chairman. He sees the garment? Mr. Jenkins. He sees the garment or the implement, or whatever it may be, and he sees just exactly what kind of a thing it is. Of course you understand a man could not carry an agricultural im- plement—a sample of any such thing as that — with him. That sorb of thing is sold by catalogue. But he does carry shoes, dry goods, and notions and millinery, and things of that kind. The Chairman. Drugs and hardware are sold by catalogue, are they not? Mr. Jenkins. Drugs The Chairman. And hardware and implements ? . , • Mr. Jenkins. Not entirely; no, sir. There are some articles m drugs that we have to carry samples of. Of course of chemicals m ^14 PABCELS POST. the general lines we do not carry samples; but what are called spe- ■cialties, we have to show those by samples. The Chairman. I do not want you to understand that I am antag- onizing the drummer. Mr. Jenkins. Certainly not. The Chairman, It is not that; but in the hearings last month it was stated repeatedly that you were not needed, that it was not neces- sary to have the drummer, and that it was unnecessary for the consumer of articles to have the expense of the drummer added to the expense of selling the goods. Mr. Jenkins. May I ask where that question came from ? The Chairman. Oh, yes; of course. It comes from the grange — from the farmers. Mr. Jenkins. Of course, so far as it is the farmer's view, we do not know anything about that, but from the merchants view, from the view of the people that buy the goods from us, they think we are a necessity. The Chairman. And you think you are a necessity ? Mr. Jenkins. We think we are a necessity, and we do not see any necessity of a parcels-post bill. It is going to disrupt the busi- ness conditions of this country. We are a unit on that point. Mr. Weeks. I want to ask you one or two question, because I think it will have some effect on the cost of distribution. Mr. Jenkins. Yes. . Mr. Weeks. Do you know what the value of the merchandise is which is sold through drummers, or through the houses that are represented by drummers, annually ? Mr. Jenkins. Do you mean the total amount? I could not tell you that ; no, sir. Mr. Weeks. Have you any idea ? Mr. Jenkins. No, sir; I have not any idea. I could not answer that question. Mr. Weeks. Is there any way you could get those figures ? Mr. Jenkins. I do not see how there would be any way of getting those figures ; no, sir. Mr. Weeks. You say there are 600,000 drummers ? Mr. Jenkins. Six hundred thousand drummers ; yes, sir. Mr. Weeks. What do you think it averages those houses tp keep a drummer on the road a year ? Mr. Jenkins. Do you mean in percentage? Mr. .Weeks. No; including Salary and percentages and cost of his transportation, and so forth? Mr. Jenkins. I should say, taking the whole number, it would cost on the average about $8 a day. Mr. Weeks. About $8 a day ? ' Mr. Jenkins. Yes. Mr. Weeks. Would you say $2,500 a year ? Mr. Jenkins. There are 600,000 of them. Mr. Weeks. I mean $2,500 a year for each man? Mr. Jenkins. Yes ; it would cost an average Of that. Mr. Weeks. That would be something like $1,500,000,000, wouljl it not? - - Mr. Jenkins. Yes ; fully that. Mr. AVeeks. That is wh^it it costs to keep the commercial travelers on the road selling these goods? PAECELS POST. 315 Mr. Jenkins. They will travel 300 days in the year, on the average. Mr. Weeks. I am not figuring about that. Mr. Jenkins. Three hundred days in the year. Mr. Weeks. That must be a terrible tax on the people that buy th^ goods. Mr. Lafean. Does that $2,500 include the salary? Mr. Jenkins. The average salary; yes, sir. Mr. Lafean. The average salary ? Mr. Jenkins. Yes; taking in the high-class men as well as the small, local men that do not pay such salaries. Of course, that seems to be a tremendous amount, but you must take into consideration! that the amount of money — almost over half of it— is spent in the sections in which we travel and put into circulation. It all goes into circulation, and it is well distributed. Now, you take that amount of money out of circulation and do away with the traveling man and you would have a panic. Mr. Weeks. Yes ; but suppose you took that away from the travel- ing man and distributed it among the people who buy the goods? Mr. Jenkins. How would you do it? ; Mr. Weeks. So that they would get the goods that much cheaper? Mr. Jenkins. They would not get them any cheaper. The priefr is just the same, whether a man comes into New York and buys an article or whether he buys it from us on the road. That would be just giving the manufacturer that much greater profit. Mr. Weeks. The manufacturer does not get the profit. It is the wholesale merchants that get the profit, or the selling agents. Mr. Jenkins. The manufacturer gets the largest end of it. Mr. Weeks. Are you sure of that ? Mr. Jenkins. Yes. ]■■■ Mr. Weeks. Do you sell for a manufacturer? Mr. Jenkins. I sell for a manufacturer and a jobber both, and an importer. Mr. Weeks. Do you think there are many commercial traveler? who sell for manufacturers ? Mr. Jenkins. Oh, yes ; very many. Take the number of traveling- men on the road; we have taken a pretty accurate census of their opinion on' this bill, and we find that they are opposed to it almost unitedly; and not only that, but our houses are opposed to it. I have the honor also to represent the Travelers and Merchants'^ ■Association of Baltimore, composed of a membership of over 600' business firms and individuals, and they have authorized me to say to you that they are opposed to this bill absolutely, and I will st^te that you will get a letter to-day — if the chairman has not already received it — from the chairman of the legislataive committee of the Jfational Wholesale Druggists' Association, who wish to go on record as being opposed to this bill. ■ Mr. Weeks. When you say "this bill" do you mean the Suker hill or the Lewis bill, or any parcels-post bill. ,! Mr. Jenkins. Any parcels-post bill. Mr. Weeks. Of any kind ? "'' Mr. Jenkins. Yes; we are opposed to this. Mr. Weeks. You are opposed to this legislation ? Mr. Jenkins. Yes; we are opposed to this legislation. : ;; 316 PAECELS POST. Mr. Lafean. How did you arrive at the opposition of the members of your association to the parcels post ? Mr. Jenkins. We took a vote in our local posts and councils. The commercial travelers are as solidly organized as any body of men in the United States. We are organized into the Federation of Com- mercial Travelers, and we get the opinions passed right up to us. Mr. Lewis. May I ask a question ? Mr. MooN. Yes. Mr. Lewis. Mr. Jenkins, you say that the people you represent are opposed to all parcels-post bills, including the Lewis bill, of which I happen to be the author. Can you tell me what the Lewis bill is, or its main outlines ? Mr. Jenkins. The Lewis bill? I do not just recall the text of that bill. Mr. Lewis. Do you know its general features or outlines ? Mr. Jenkins. No, sir. We are opposed to parcels-post legislation ; not to any particular bill. We were under the impression that you were considering all those bills at one time._ Mr. Lewis. I do not consider the Lewis bill a parcels-post bill, but your answer covered it by name, and I wanted to know whether you had it in mind, or knew anything about it. Mr. Jenkins. No, sir ; but I would be very glad to see a copy of it, Mr. Chairman, I think that covers about all I have to say. STATEMENT OF MR. P. T. EATHBTIIT, OF SPRINGFIELD, OHIO, REPRESENTING THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF IMPLEMENT AND VEHICLE DEALERS' ASSOCIATIONS. Mr. Eathbun. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee,, at the request of the president of the National Association of Imple- ment and Vehicle Dealers' Associations I appear before you. It is an association of the various State vehicle and implement dealers' associations. I appear before you, not with any figures as to cost of operation of a parcels post, but more especially to have read into the record the opposition of the various constituent associations. The following resolutions have been reported to me as having been adopted : Western Eetail Implement and Vehicle Dealers' Association: Resolved, That we are unalterably opposed to the enactment of a parcels-post law in any form, believing that any such measure is not only unfair to country merchants but also a vicious blow to many thriving industries in the growing West, and a menace to farm and city values outside the largest trade centers. That it is not of value to any class of citizens except to those interested in great corporations in the great trade centers, who by means of a parcels-post bill are seeking to subvert this branch of the Government service to their own selfish ends. The Mid-West Implement Dealers' Association : That we again go on record as being firmly opposed to a parcels post of any kind on the ground of class legislation, and also being extremely detrimental to all dealers and to all classes of citizens as we believe. The best Interests of every Individual In the community is conserved by the upbuilding of the smaller towns. Iowa Implement Dealers' Association: All honorable efforts should be made against parcels-post legislation, believing it better for the individual if no special favors are shown by the Government favoring one class at the expense of many others. PABOELS POST. 317 Illinois Efitail Implement Dealers' Association : Resolved, That we, the members of the Illinois Retail Implement Dealers' Association, in convention assembled, are opposed to the enactment of any parcels-post legislation, either local or general, firmly believing, as we do, that the effect of such laws would be to divert the business of the country merchant and tradesman In small cities and towns to the large retail department and catalogue houses of the large cities, to the great detriment of community life throughout our entire country. Eetail Implement Dealers' Association of South Dakota, South- western Minnesota, and Northwestern Iowa : In view of the persistent efforts of interested parties to secure parcels-post legislation, we would recommend that this association go on record as unalter- ably opposed to the parcels post in any form, as we believe it to be class legis- lation for the benefit of the few, while working untold injury to retail dealers and their customers. Minnesota Retail Implement Dealers' Association: Resolved, That we, the members of the Minnesota Retail Implement Dealers' Association, in convention assembled, are opposed to the enactment of any parcels-post legislation, either local or general, firmly believing, as we do, that the effect would be to divert the business of the country merchant and trades- man in small cities and towns to the large retail department stores and cata- logue houses of the large cities, to the great detriment of communities through- out our entire country. Oklahoma Retail Hardware and Implement Dealers' Association: Resolved, That the Oklahoma Retail Hardware and Implement Dealers' Asso- ciation Is unalterably opposed to a local parcels post and to a parcels post iu any form. Colorado Retail Hardware and Implement Association : Whereas the agitation of parcels post is confronting us at the present time imore forcibly than ever, and it being an undeniable fact that same is detri- mental not alone to the merchant of the smaller towns, but as well to the residents not directly Interested in selling merchandise : Be it Resolved, That every member of this body use his best efforts with his fellow dealer in other lines in securing the most influential methods available and lay- ing same before our Representatives in Congress, trying to convince them as to the hardship which a passage of such legislation would subject them to, and the further fact that the people of the United States are more interested In 1-cent letter postage. The Tristate Vehicle and Implement Dealers' Association (Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky) : Resolved, That this association go on record as being opposed to a parcels post of any kind, believing it to be detrimental to our members and class legislation. North Dakota and Northwestern Minnesota Implement Dealers' Association : In view of the persistent efforts of interested parties to secure parcels-post legislation, we would recommend that the federation again go on record as unalterably opposed to the parcels post in every form, as being class legislation for the benefit of the comparatively few, while working untold injury to the retail dealers and their customers. Southwestern Kansas and Oklahoma Implement and Hardware Dealers' Association: Whereas parcels post still maintains a threatening attitude, let us keep in touch and urge Members of Congress and urge Government control and lower rates for express companies rather than favor the introduction of a system which so vitally affects the existence of the smaller trade, believing as we do that it will only benefit a few at the expense of the Government, and that the 318 PABCELS POST. passage of a parcels-post law would mean that our Government would be put to a great expense, whereby the mail-order concerns would reap the benefit: Therefore be It jtesolved, That this association use its best efforts to defeat such a law. ; Wisconsiii Eetail Implement and Vehicle Dealers' Association : '-■ Resolved, That we reaffirm our opposition to the parcels-post bill now before Congress. In our judgment such legislation would tend to build up large cities tp'the detriment of small towns and of the retail merchants, and it would be an expensive experiment for the Government, benefiting but a small percentage ■of our population. - Michigan Eetail Implement and Vehicle Dealers' Association : Resolved, That we are opposed to the passage of any parcels-post laws by ■our National Legislature, as we believe such laws would be detrimental to the interests of the implement and vehicle and hardware dealers of the State of Michigan and all other retail dealers, and would operate to the benefit of the mail-order houses. Texas Hardware and Implement Association: Resolved, That we do not believe an extension of the present parcels-post system would be for the best interest of the country, but are convinced that it would work a hardship on the retail merchants of the villages and towns throughout the United States, in that such extension would divert the trade from the local merchant to the catalogue and mail-order houses in the large to handle a pound of second-class mail. If I said it cost more to carry the second-class mail, it ^yas a slip of the tongue. The Chaieiman. That is all right. It may have been my misun- derstanding. Mr. BuEEOWs. Sometimes my tongue gets tangled up. Mr. "Weeks. You are speaking entirely of handling? Mr. BuEEOWs. The total expense of every kind possible — receiv- ing, hauling, and distributing, and every expense that should go against either — is the thing. From the difference in the cost and the return it is a plain deduction immediately, the aggregate cost of the first-class mail being $80, and of the other for a smaller amount of service, $100. In other words, every time the first-class mail cost $80 the other cost $100. The second-class mail has contributed just under $62,000,000 to your postal revenue for the past 10 years. The first-class mail has contributed — some of the figures are known and some have to be estimated, but it has been estimated in several ways — $1,135,000,000. The one, as the Post Office shows, produced a profit of approximately 40 cents a pound. The Chaieman. May I interrupt you at just that point? Mr. Bt'EEOws. Yes. The Chaieman. Can you give us those figures by ^vhich you reach that conclusion? Mr. Bueeows. I can, with a little trouble. I can deduce them, as I have deduced them. The Chairman. You need not produce them here, but we will appreciate it very much if you will put them in the record. Mr. Bueeows." I will do it, with great pleasure. The question is if those deductions are correct. In producing $62,000,000 of revenue the expense account is $662,000,000, as the Post Office Department figures it, as I figure it, and I have for that very good reason although they might not appeal to others, it costs more than 12 cents a pound to handle every pound of first-class mail handled in the United States, instead of the 9.23 cents a pound that they say it does. But I would prefer not to go into the reasons for that; it would take me a week to dig out the figures; and either is bad enough, where the second-class mail produced $62,000,000 and it cost $662,000,000, if I am correct, and the first-class mail has cost approximately the same, and has produced $1,135,000,000 of revenue. If it is not a question of the one producing a loss of $600,000,000, and the other a Pjofit of $600,000,000 of revenue, I do not know what it is. As tor Mr. William Jennings Bryan, if we assume him to be correct in his statement that unjust taxation is larceny in the shajje of law, those people of the United States who are producing eight-tenths ot the first-class postage revenue are certainly being mulcted of a very large part of $65,000,000 a year of profit that is borne that is^ apparent on the first-class mail receipts which were last year $l,lo4,78b,000, as you doubtless will know. I believe I quote the figures correctly. 352 PABCELS POST. Now, what has that to do with this parcels-post proposition? Simply this : When that pound rate of postage law was enacted, there was a new kind of literary Niagara started, and that literary Niagara began the work of cutting a gorge, just as, physically speaking, the canal that connects Lake Erie and Lake Ontario has done there. The water has been at work there for tens of thousands of years, and has gone half the way through. Man operates more swiftly. That eco- nomic gorge has caused in the United States a development from that 40,000,000 pounds annually of second-class mail in 1875 — almost ex- actly 40,000,000 pounds of periodical literature produced that year — until this past year the pubfishers' production was 878,000,000 pounds. The total production was over 900,000,000 pounds, and there were in- numerable new periodicals. We hear something from Mr. Hobson over in the House about a war scare. I am a graduate of West Point of 1870, so many years ago that I am certainly the senior of every one of you gentlemen here, and I do not believe with Mr. Hobson that we are going to have war with Japan yet. But Japan is pub- lishing three books and pamphlets per million inhabitants to our one. Germany is publishing four to our one. Switzerland is publishing ten to our one. England and the British Empire is publishing about four to our one. There are similar diminishing figures for every one of the civilized nations of the globe, save one only — Spain. Russia published, by the last expert estimates of the Publishers' Weekly, the official trade journal of the book sellers, 86 books and pamphlets per million inhabitants per annum, to 81 in the United States. We pub- lish fewer books of the thought-out style than does any nation on this earth, save Spain only ; and the remark was made by a general officer of our Army, who, like myself, was a West Point graduate, that for lack of experience and for lack of a big enough mobile army with which to experiment, we had committed every military crime in the Decalogue except one, in the Spanish War, and that was that we had selected our antagonist just right ; and I believe that is so. Now, whence comes this agitation for a parcels post? I am spin- ning this out, I fear, dreadfully long, and yet I want to make the connection. The reason for it is this: Last year Japan pubHshed some 2,000 periodicals, and we had 3,862 new ones begin their career in the United States. The year before we had 8,810, and the year before that 3,680, and the year before that 3,913, and the year before that 3,924 — and those figures are just right — and the year before that 4,289. We have had over 42,000 new periodicals — thank God, three- quarters of them died aborning — begin their career in the United States in the last 10 years. While we are at the foot of the list of nations of the entire globe in the production of the noble things of books, when it comes to the publication of these weeds of literature and the garbage barrels of literature we publish more than do all the nations of Europe; and then you may add to all the nations of Europe the aggregate of all that they are publishing in all the other countries of the earth, and then you will have only 40 per cent of the grand total. We published the other 60 per" cent. Of those publications which were started, three-quarters died, as I have said. They died just nine-tenths as fast as they were born. Thank God for something ! There is one little blessing. I am not an entire pessimist. I am an optimistic pessimist, but I am a little bit of a pessimist. AMiy do those periodicals — there are fAECELS POST. 3g8 some 27,227 of them, I believe, but that is subject to correction— con- duct a campaign of education for a parcels post? Simply for this reason : When that new kind of periodical was born in 1874, advef- tising became the mainstay of the campaign. Advertising is the breath of life to the perio'dieals of the United States. Ninety -five ■per cent of the periodical literature of the United States absolutely contravenes the law regarding the right to use the privilege of carriage of second-class mail under the law which you gentlemen and your predecessors have enacted. You went up there to Augusta, Me., from which eight loaded cars a day were being sent out through Cleveland and Chicago for distribution in the far West, and said to them, " You are contravening this law ; the law states clearly that those publications must be published for specific pilirposes and must conform to certain other regulations. You are getting an edticaitional privilege and you are getting the privilege because you are supposed to be doing educational work, and, therefore, you must do some- thing along that line," and then the proviso was added, and it still exists in the. law, that publications designed primarily for advertis- ing purposes or free circulation, and circulation at nominal rates, were not — and they are not to-day — entitled to that f a;vorabte tariff. But if you were to throw out of the m!ail, as you did throw out — as the administrative department of the post office did throw out — those publications at Augusta, Me., what would happen? There they went into the court and asked for reinstatement unless all other publications contravening the law was also thrown out. That could not be done, so that they got reinstatement and Went back in. Now, it is due to this excessive growth of the second-class mail itself, and to that more than to any other one thing, that the agita- tion for a parcels-post service has proceeded iii this country, as Was said yesterday, if I conceived it right, from the top downward. You asked for some facts. In the Detroit Free Press for February or March I find this advertisement: ' Solicitors wanted to obtain signatures to petitions asking CbngJ'es.s to enact a parcels-post law; state experience and references. Postal Progress League, 125 East Twenty-third Street, New York. Then it was further stated that while this parcels post— to just dodge around a bit from my subject^was hot so much desired by the catalogue houses who would be favored they do not have to sound that bugle. The farm journals that are published in millions of copies per month, and that are the farmers' friends at so much per copy, have automatically, by the situation and status of things, been required to exploit t}ie demands for a parcels post. The reason is this. They are failing to produce results with their advertisement because of this overproduction, this useless, this worthlesSjthis wicked waste in the overproduction of periodicar literature; and due to that it is, as much as any other one thing, that the campaign wils started for the benefit of those selfish interests to whom it means millions and scores of millions of dolla^rs a year; and in regard to that I do not wish to use the ugly term "graft," but I will use it, because it is so short and so easily understood, and m these days attention is called to a word so many times that finally you use it. That is whj)^ they' buy from those c?italogues, because they see^ them ' so much. These periodicals have been used to exploit the parcels- 3110—11 23 354 PABCELS POST. post service. If they can get in this country a parcels-post service comparable in any sense to those foreign services, then they will pro- long the life and the value to them, from a selfish standpoint, of that second-class mail-matter privilege or rate. They therefore have unceasingly called the attention of people to this fact. Now this paper is right in my hands, and I want to get it out of, my system. It was stated that Sears, Roebuck & Co. and the other mail-order houses were not proponents of the parcels-post service in the United States. Gentlemen, that is not so. I do not like to call a man bluntly — especially since the recent incumbent of the White House passed away from the scene — a liar. I prefer to break the news to him gently. But this is a quotation from a letter from a very, very intimate friend of mine, a prominent former business man of Cleveland. He says: It may be stated during the course of your arguments that the Chicago catalogue houses do not favor parcels post, for you know that this statement has been made repeatedly and, therefore, please don't overlook the fact that the last time I was In Chicago — and that was not two months ago, it was the 16th or 17th of May — I called on Mr. Rosenbaum — He means Mr. Rosenwall — president of the Sears-Roebnck Co., and spoke to him in resai'd to our asso- ciation, and he said that they were not interested in 1-cent letter postage, but were strongly in favor of parcels post. Realizing how importnnt this state- ment was I went back at him with the question : " You favor parcels post, do you?" His reply was, "Yes. We have never contributed one dollar to the campaign, but we favor it." I am told, however, that whether they contributed to the campaign or not, they did contribute $17,500 to the Postal Progress League work, which is soliciting for petition signatures. Now, whether that which was told to me, and which I can not prove, is true or not, it is simply worth what a rumor is worth ; and you know the old gossip says, " One touch of rumor makes the whole world chin." Another thing from Sears, Roebuck & Co., and by inference from that, whether the mail-order houses are in favor of the ^^arcels post or not. I am not certain about this clipping, but I think it is from the Chicago Record-Herald of a few days ago. It reads as follows: PARCELS POST TO HELP SEAES-EOEBTJCK STOCK. There were handled on the Chicago Stock Exchange 1,787 shares of Com- monwealth Edison on a scale that tipped 135, or a rise of over 5 '-oints in two sessions. The buying, as on the day before, was mainly for investp'ent account. A quiet feature was Diamond Match, which rose 2 points to 105. New Yorkers were the buyers. The earnings of Sears, Roebuck & Co. for June showed a decrease of 6 per cent compared with June, 1910. July Is likely to show about the same result. For six months ended June 30 there was a decrease in the net. However, an important phase In the business of this organization may pro'e to be the success or failure of the parcels-post bill pending in Congress. Private advices from Washington say the measure is quite sure to pass in the next session. If this proves true it will be of an immense advantage to the Sears-Roebuck people. Mr. Weeks. Is that the advertisement of some broker ? Mr. BuHKOWS. No; that is in the financial-notes column of the stock exchange. PABCELS POST. 355 Mr. Weeks. Usually inspired by those who would be benefited by it? Mr. Btjeeows. In some cases it is and in some cases not. It is pure guessing, but as your former chairman is, I am a Yankee myself ; I come from beyond Boston, and I have a great sympathy with those who live in or near Boston, and who, not physically but geographi- cally speaking, have not wheels within their heads, but they live and move and have their being. [Laughter.] The statement was made yesterday that the mail-order houses can sell and do sell goods to the farming people at lower prices than the retail merchants. Gentlemen, in my opinion, that is absolutely not so. I am told that it costs Sears, Eoebuck & Co. 22 per cent to do business. They sent in one shipment to Texas 66 carloads of catalogues; that was one shipment to one State — in October of 1909. That is why they do business. It is because they advertise so un- ceasingly, so unendingly; and that paint advertisement which was read here yesterday was a fair sample of what happens. The paint contained as 34 per cent of the total ingredients nothing but calcium carbonate — ^nothing but plain chalk, that costs practically nothing! Mr. CoEET. And 24 per cent water. Mr. BuEEOWS. And 24 per cent water. The gentleman who just preceded me referred to the Larkin case. I can not give you the facts, but I can find, I think, a copy of the Iron Age of about four years ago where a specific instance was given of a customer up near Danbury, Conn., of a Larkin $10 order, Qiat he was able to reproduce for $6.44. I can not prove that to you, but I think that is one additionable clue to enable you to trace it out. There is a glamour and an irresponsibility that connects itself with the advertisements of these gentlemen, not only on their paints, but on every article they sell. They create a favorable impression on the minds of their customers by putting a few articles at a low price. That is an old merchandising trick in every kind of business, and it is done by most reputable merchants, even, as well as by those of a lower grade morally and financially and commercially speaking. It is done, sometimes, instead of spending money on newspaper adver- tising, to bring to the establishment a larger volume of trade, trust- ing that that volume will be profitable, even if some of the articles sold show a loss. That suggestion shows where that effort comes from, it seems to me ; that this whole demand for a parcels-post service has been, in the first place, stimulated from the top by the periodical publishers of the United States, to whom it is a necessity that they get that demand to answer. And if they can get a parcels-post carriage service in the United States, what will it mean ? Germany carries an average of three parcels per inhabitant per annum. Our population here will shortly be 100,000,000 people, and that would mean 300,000,000 parcels in this country very shortly, when we once get a development equiva- .lent to theirs. Mr. Weeks. Have you in mind the number of parcels carried now in this country? Mr. BuBHows. In this country I think it is about 58,000,000 tons, but I am not quite certain. The number of pieces that runs to the pound is 3.6, I think; but of that I am not quite certain. You can readily find it from the Postmaster General's expense reports, which 356 PAECELS POST. I am quite sure you are familiar with ; the analysis of the cost of the service. It is a very small fraction under the total volume of the mail ; and while some say that is a parcels-post service, that we have a parcels-post service now, I got a letter with a seal on it the other day, so that we are carrying parcels, anyway. I think that that, how- ever, is a begging of the question. Of course. Secretary Meyer spoke of that the other day. The German parcels-post service carries about three parcels per inhabitant per annum. The English parcels post last year carried 118,000,000 parcels, of which only 3,063,000 went outside of the Kingdom. In Germany fewer than 36,000 miles of railroad exist. Germany has 280,000 square miles of territory. The State of Texas has 265,000 square miles. Germany has a zone system. Neither proponents nor opponents have given any serious consideration, as I understand it, to a zone system if we are to establish a parcels-post carriage system in this country's service. England had of her 118,000,000 parcels for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1910 — the latest report that was available in the English Blue Book — only 3,063,000 which went out of the Kingdom. Therefore the expense account was all upon the home parcels. Those foreign parcels evidently were very expensive, but as they formed only about 2 or 2^ per cent of the total they did not cut much ice when you come down to the net profit. Our one monopoly of carriage — although there is another implied one, al- though it is not in force — the first-class mail monopoly is profitable for one reason among others. You have established by the Govern- ment a monopoly of the carriage. The first batch of letters, I am told, that went to Circle City, Alaska, which went on the 2-cent flat rate, cost $450 a letter. If from my former home at Portland, Me., which is a postal distance from New York of 125 miles, a letter came down by way of the rural free delivery, and then took a long haul to Portland, Oreg., which I be- lieve is about 3,250 postal miles from New York City, and then at Portland, Oreg., was turned over again to the rural free delivery and sent out to some ranch or gulch or canyon in Oregon, that letter might cost anywhere from a dollar to five dollars. It was considered wise, and is, as I read it, wise, to annihilate distance on the 2-cent stamp — for first-class mail; to let the distance no longer exist, commercially speaking, and then make a monopoly ; and as four-fifths of the mail, perhaps, and certainly it seems fairly probable, is the commercial mail that is carried on dense routes and for short hauls, spealdng on the average, and in large lots, and interchanged between the 225 or more greater cities of the country which had 25,000 inhabitants at this census just taken — there were 161 before, and I guess there are about 225 to-day — that first-class mail that is carried in quantities on short hauls and in dense traffic routes pays so great a profit that we can contemplate a few millions of long haul fast traffic distribution letters that mean a great loss. Perhaps every letter going to Alaska involves a loss to the Government of from 50 cents to $2. It seems to me reasonable. I have no knowledge of what the cost may be; but at any rate, they are expensive, certainly. But 30 per cent of the mail originat- ing within Greater New York, I am told, is distributed within the limits of Greater New York. Now, as I read the signs of the times, PABCBLS POST. 357 looking ahead, any parcels-post service that you gentlemen may see fit or may be forced to establish will be unprofitable. Why ? First, parcels carried must be of one of two sorts, either general or local, if local only, it will be the entering wedge. We have had instances of the entering wedge heretofore. If you get one entering wedge in there that does not open the door more than 1 inch, inside of 10 years, and probably inside of 5 years, the 'door will be wide open ; and when you get that door wide open, the post office has been known for years as a deficit mill, and due to good business administrative ability, and not to wisdom in the rates fixed, it is that the deficit has disappeared, as we learn, apparently, from rumor, this year; but when you get a parcfels-post service inaugurated in the United States, and that through an entering wedge only that opens the door a small amount, and that entering wedge has widened the gap, you will have a deficit producer with which nothing that you have ever had is comparable in any case. I had a friend who had a wife who weighed just about 95 pounds, and he was a great, big fellow, and he weighed over 200; and, need- less to say, he was happily married. You know the story of tiie colored woman who was asked by her neighbor, " Mandy, is youi- daughter happily married ? " " Yes ; sure thing. She is very happily married. She has got a husband that is skeered to death of her." [Laughter.] This man with a little 95-pound wife was "skeered to death of her," and they were very happily married, which is, perhaps, one of tiie good ways of getting happily married. The result of that would be that these little deficits of five, three, two, ten, seven, eight, fourteen, sixteen,, and seventeen millions p_er annum would become twenty-five, thirty-five, fifty, seventy-five mil- lions, and possibly one hundred millions per annum. This little woman, the man said, could talk a hole through a bat- tleship, and if the proponents of a parcels post ever succeed in talk- ing any parcels-post service through the committee they will talk a hole through the United States Treasury, and there is where you will see the whole $100,000,000 of silver bullion which is piled up, which we have not any use for, economically, in a "hundred years, flowing out in one shape or another. The farmer will use the parcels-post service to buy or sell goods ; it must be one or the other, if it is a local one. If it is a general one, he may use it for both. The local, as I read it, will be only the prede- cessor of a general. Let us see what will happen if it is a local one and he only buys goods with it. „ , , i , o Will you excuse me while I drink, like a fish, water only, here| May I ask if you come from Tennessee? [Addressing Mr. Mays, of Florida, in the chair.] Cold water Is the best of drinks, And fit for prince or king ; But who am I that I should hare The best of everything? Let princes revel at the bar, Kings with the tap make free; Champagne, gin, and even beer Is good enough for me — when I can get it. [Laughter.] 358 PABCELS POST. Now, to get back to my subject, and I feel that I am trespassing fearfully upon your time, but I do not know— I am away from home, and when I am at home my wife does not let me talk so much. If the farmer buys little, only what he is now buying, and if he pays for what he owes on a parcel of over 4 pounds, he will buy about an average of a parcel a year, and you have just advanced the salaries $4,000,000 in your new appropriation, and the Rural Free De- livery Service is 421 millions. You started with $40,000 appropriated not 15 years ago, and $14,840 was spent the first year, $50,000 the second year, $150,000 the third year, $450,000 the next year; then $1,450,000, then it was $4,000,000, then it was $8,000,000 and over, then it was $12,000,000, then $20,000,000 the neit jump, and then it ran up to 35, 37, and 42 millions appropriated, and 50 millions in sight. ■ You have advanced the pay of those rural free-delivery carriers five times. There were 11 bills in one Congress to advance their wages. Mr. Lafean. It seems a success, the rural free delivery. Mr. BuKBows. Yes; but an expensive success. And will you par- don me. Judge, not as talking against a rural free-delivery service, but as talking of the growth of these entering wedges. The English postal-telegraph service shows a growth comparable to that of this. It was predicted in the Hall of the United States House of Eepre- sentatives that that expense never would be $10,000,000, and you know where it has gotten to. It is $40,000,000 and practically in sight of $50,000,000, and it is producing only seven or eight millions of revenue; and if those parcels were carried, they would not pro- duce, at an average price, nearly as much as will be the expense of carrying them, unless the farmers should do something besides buy- ing from the local merchants; and unless they are doing something besides sending in that charming fresh lettuce and the fresh butter — the lettuce with the dew on it — and the lettuce would be wilted and the butter would be melted before they were delivered ; or those de- lightful spring chickens and fresh eggs-^and the chickens would be baked and the eggs would be hatched before they got in on the cars, if it was R. F. D. line cars, if it was as hot as it is here in Washington, because I know. I hardly wear out a suit of pajamas a year at home, because there I sleep without much on me, but here I have left much off. [Laughter.] As I say, you have increased the expense account, in the salaries of these carriers, $4,000,000. Of the 50,000 and more fourth-class postmasters, I believe 50 per cent of them get less than $100 a year and 25 per cent of them less than $50 a year. Some of those E. F. D. carriers have a little place for their material about checkerboard or blackboard size only. With parcels added, if it is a success — and if it is not a success it is a loss — ^they will have that increase, and that fourth-class postmaster will be wanting $75 a month, at least, and then some more, instead of $100 a year. As I say, there is no pos- sibility of its becoming a success except it furnishes to these catalogue houses, who have been indirectly but none the less certainly built up to their present success by the second-class mail matter, the cheap transportation which they want; and they are in an underlying way responsible for all this agitation, which is in a certain sense socialistic. To show that I have terminal facilities, I will be through by a quarter past 12. Will I have that time ? Mr. Mays. Yes ; I suppose so. PAKCELS POST. 359 Mr. BxJEEOWs. I would like— but I do not wish to go too far into this— if the committee is interested^ to go into the matter in a little pamphlet I have prepared. In the English parcels-post service, with 118,000,000 parcels carried last year, with their average haul of just between 40 and 50 miles and with it practically all home traffic, even England is losing money upon this service. Mr. Weeks. I would like to ask you to send one of those pamphlets to each member of the committee. Mr. BuEEOws. I shall be more than delighted to do it. I can leave one here to-day with each one of you. This English parcels service produced about £236 sterling last year. Of that, automatically, as you know, 55 per cent goes to the railroad, of the steam-borne par- cels, 45 per cent of the Government rates, and all steam-road-borne parcels the Government got £1,085,000. That is closely correct. They got, in other words, about $6,000,000, translating pounds into dollars, for the carriage and handling — so far as the post-office work was concerned, of receiving and delivering and handling — of 118,- 000,000 parcels. You had yesterday some statistics from Mr. Wells as to the cost of local merchandising deliveries. In Cleveland I happen to know that the merchant who gets off with a handling of his parcels for 10 cents cost per parcel, whether he contracts for it through a common car- rier or carries it through his own delivery system, regards himself as fortunate. That is for a local and within town and city limits delivery. Had that been supplemented by so much of the 40-mile ad- ditional carriage, that carriage would have cost at least double that amount, and the delivery much in addition to that, possibly; not far from 25 cents. I look upon it as axiomatic almost that business men can and do operate more cheaply than the Government. And on that account, to answer a question which you asked yesterday, if I may refer to that, I am not in favor of taking over the express companies. I have studied mildly .the governmental operation of the British telegraph, the municipal ownership of the German railways, and a few other little things of that sort — ^mildly. Mr. Lewis. I would like to ask this gentleman a question. I hap- pen to be a student of railway transportation. Did you make a comparison between Prussian railway administration and English railway administration with a view to the records of efficiency in those cases? Mr. Btjebows. No; the English is not ownfed and the German is owned, nine-tenths of it. Mr. Lewis, That is the reason I asked you if you made a compar- ison between those countries. Did you make a comparison of the Prussian railroads and the English railway system with a view to ascertaining the efficiency of both ? Mr. Bttbeows. No; I did not make that comparison. Mr. Lewis. Then why have you deduced an opinion adverse to governmental operation, generally? . -e • • Mr. Burrows. For a different reason from that of efficiency in operation; for the reason Mr. Lewis. Well, I am entitled to know your reason. Mr. Bueeows. I am very glad to give it to you. For the reason that the German showing upon their parcels-carnage service is inter- fered with in its accuracy by the fact that they do not charge up 360 PAECELS POST. the cost of that service, I am told, while the English show, it seems to me, indirectly, a loss of $15,000,000 upon their parcels-carriage seryice, to make a long story short. I will not try to prove that the German system is conducted at a loss. Mr. Lewis. Are there any English railway or postal data that will enable you to segregate tihe carrying in parcels from the general matter carried by the mails? Mr. Burrows. There was in the j&rst two years of the carriage by the parcels service. Mr, Lewis. What years? Mr. Burrows. I forget the exact years. I will not try to state that. I will try to find it for you. Mr. La:wis. I wish you would; but it is nkot reported in recent years. Mr. Mats. Gentlemen of the committee, I want to know if it is permissible for an outsider to ask questions ? Mr. Burrows. The Auditor for the Post Office Department makes the statement in this connection that the first year that the I^li^ parcels carriage service was established there was a statement made that it would be carried fit a jwofit, but ttiey found at the end of the year that there was a small deficit. They said, " This is a new broom, and it did not sweep very clean, but it will next year." The next year they still had a deficit, and then they said that it was on account of the bookkeeping; that the bookkeeping was expensive, and so thef discarded the bookkeeping; and thereafter they kept no aeeoHat, where previously they had kept the accounts so much in detail— the expense accounts— that a postmaster put half his time on the letter service and another half on the parcels carriage work, and tiiey di-, vided in the bookkeeping that expense betweeri the two. Bmt they have stopped doing that, and you can not get anything out of them. You can simply make your Yankee guess, and I am a Yankee and like to guess, and I guess they aJ^e losing at least $10,000,000 and probably $20,000,000 a year. They are receiving aho.nt $6,000,000 for the handling of 118,000,000 parcels, and it is absolutely prepogtep- ousi, and I will leave it to any business man in the United Stiates if they are receiving anything like the cost of the service. The German parcels post is conducting its own parcels service and that is at a loss. I have just as good a right, sir, to say so as this outsider — I thought he was one of your committee — ^has to think not. I do not want to assume that mine has any value beyond my own personal opinion. But, as I said yesterday, Germany has 204,000 square miles and Texas 265,000 square" miles. France is four-fifths the size of Texas alone. Great Britain has 41 miles average haul, with 121,000 square miles of country — -England alone, 51/)00. Twenty-six of our 48 States are larger than is England. Belgium has just under 11,000 square miles of territory ; Switzer- land, 16,000. You can get a dozen and a half of them into the State of Texas. Most of the parcels are home-distribution parcels, and they only send about 60,0i()0 or 70,000 a year and receive a few more only. . Xow, when you come here and originate the parcels up here in the producing part of the country, up in my old State of Maine, the increase of population was less than 5 per cent from 1890 to 1900; under 5 per cent from 1900 to 1910 ; under 10 per cent in two decades. PARCELS POST. 3gJ^ In Oklahoma and North Dakota the increase was 300 and 600 per cent in population. In Maine there is a distributing machinery of merchants with stocks of goods. In Oklahoma it is a newly settled country, and it is to the interest of the Uaited States as a whole not only that those farmers should have this very good hut very expen- sive rural free delivery, but that we should have built up those small towns in Oklahoma. And they never will be built up if we have a parcels jjost. It will be the big cities or the farms, one or the other. There will be no middle ground. The middle ground in Germany, I assert confidently, has disappeared. You can not go into a Germaji village of 5Q0 to 1,500 mhabitanjts and find such a stock of goods as you will find m any similar town in the United States. To keep my promise, I have got to get some terminal facilities on; I have got to get to my closing part of this subject, and I have a lot more that I want to say, but my time is drawing to a close. Mr. Wbieks. I -would like to suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the wit- ness have all the time that he wants to furnish the information to the committee that he has. Mr. Mats. Very well, sir; just go ahead. Mr. BuEKOws. You are very courteous, sir. Flattery is like cologne water. I think it is implicit flattery to be asked to go <(m when I have already been talking so long. Flattery is like cologne water, to besn^elled^f but not swallowed. This smells very good, [Laughter.] The Chairman. You have been giving us a great deal of valuable information. Mr. BuEEOws. I have tried to give you a few matters of fact. Mr. Wells made yesterday the statement that some of his firms would be saved if they could have letter postage, $2,000 and $3,000 a year. Some of the firms that I represent have a postage account of $50,000 a year, like Schiefilin & Co., jobbers, of St. Louis; and when they contribute that $50,000 a year they are contributing to that fund that is subsidizing these periodicals. If you gentlemen can and will find yourselves able to slowly, so as to make no confiscation, but gradually and firmly, advance that rate upon second-class mail matter until you wipe out four-fifths of it, you will have done the greatest good to this country that any postal committee has ever done, and you will cause the disappearance of this demand for a parcels carriage in the United States postal service, in large part. I have said something as to the economics of the situation. I am not a politician, never have been, and I think I would be the poorest sort of a one on this earth, but I recognize the politics of the situa- tion, that yoM gentlemen can not — ^and were I in your honored and honorable places I should not — avoid, and that is this, that there is a demand, whether it be created by the press or the people; and I say it is created by the press, and I might say that it seemed to me that you -were, and rightly were, more a part of the press than the people, some of you at least, and I should be in your places, anyway. But on the question of policy, there were 10 years ago 792,000 retail mer- chants in the United States, and 38,000 more jobbers. These figures are given from memory, but are about right. To-day it is a fair inference, therefore, that there are more tlian a million wholesale and retail merchants in the Uuited States. There are perhaps approxi- mately 15,000^00 formers. Probably 95 per cent of those merchants are opponents of the parcels post, for the selfish reasons, and simply 362 PAECELS POST. the selfish reasons, that have been dilated upon before my appearance here before you. I believe that the merchant is right in being opposed to it. But one vote of one of those merchants is worth, politically, a dozen farmers' votes. Perhaps that is exaggerated. I am afraid it is. I will say it is worth three anyway. Why ? It is because those merchants and those 600,000 commercial travelers get about more and have more weight. When my friend Mr. Jenkins was speaking yesterday, you asked him how much volume of business those men did. An average per- haps of $125,000 a salesman per year would be $15,000,000,000 of business per annum, which is their turnover; and they make goods cheaper, and not higher, as I have said. Those merchants and those commercial travelers, visiting in their stores, are always conducting a little talk-fest for or against somebody or something. Here they are Eepublicans and there they are Democrats. In Tennessee I imagine that many and perhaps most of them will be Democrats. In Maine, my old home, and certainly up in Vermont, I know most of them will be Republicans. Mr. Mats. I would like to correct you in one thing. I live in the best State in the Union, Florida. I do not live in Tennessee. Mr. Burrows. I beg your pardon. There is one member of the committee from Tennessee, and I simply got my wires crossed. Mr. Llotd. The chairman of this committee, Mr. Moon, is from Tennessee. Mr. Mays is in the chair now. Mr. Burrows. I hope both of you gentlemen will pardon me. Mr. Mays. I just wanted to advertise my good State. Mr. Weeks. They will all say the same thing about other States, so that it does not make any difference. Mr. Burrows. As I always say to the young women, "Where is that other good-looking girl?" I simply made a mistake and got the other of those two good-looking men. To get back to the question; in Florida I think there are only a few Eepublicans. I do not know whether you have a Republican Representative or not; but that man, if he is voting for a parcels post, and is known to be for a parcels post, has nearly all, or a large majority, of the retail merchants in his district working against him, and every one of them is worth three farmers' votes for him. The farmer never wanted a parcels post until it was brought to him. In Vermont the Republican who wants to come back here will have very nearly every one, or a large percentage, of those retails merchants working against him, because it is money in their pockets. McKmley once made this statement, that the doctrine of gravita- tion would still be disputed if there was a financial interest arrayed against it. A man who is earning out of a little country store from $500 to $1,500 a year will work just as hard not to see that brought about as wUl the merchant who is making $10,000 or $20,000 or $30,000 a year. In my business, due to this iniquitous postal law — I mean iniquitous in its effects, not in its inception, because it was intended to do good — due to this iniquitous second-class mail rate the number of bookstores has been greatly reduced. There were 3,000 or 4,000 good bookstores in the United States 35 years ago, and if a good bookstore, a store well stocked and intelligently man- aged, is an educational influence in the community second only, if second, to the schools, the churches, the libraries, and colleges oi the PAEOELiS POST. 363 country, I submit that to reduce that number from 3,000 or 4,000, as has been done by the operation of the second-class mail-matter law, to its present state of only 1,000 — and they are still passing out of existence — ^is an economic evil, and one of great proportions in this country. And just as the retail merchant of books has disappeared under the second-class mail-matter act, so will the distributers of re- tail merchandise in other lines disappear under the operation of a parcels-post law, in my belief. The plea was that the second-class mail-matter act would give us education. What has it given us ? It has given us weeds of liter- ature and the garbage barrels of literature, these magazines. And do you know what a magazine is? It is a small body of literature en- tirely surrounded by advertising. The genial Mr. Dooley, of Chi- cago, tells his friend "Hinnessy" what a magazine is. He says, "Hinnessy, last night I bought one of those dom'd magazines and took it home with me, and in the evening after supper I lit my pipe and sat down in my chair to have a quiet smoke and read the adver- tisements; and do you know, 25 per cent of the dom'd thing was nawthing but literachoor." [Laughter.] I will not express any opinion of the daily papers. There are most noble ones. I want to quote from that noble man, J. P. Lamed, librarian, of New York. A few years ago he gave utterance to this, upon the newspapers of the yellow- journal sort in this country, which this law has stimulated no less than it has stimulated the pe- riodical literature of the monthly and weekly sort. He said : But the common so-called newspaper of the present day, which is a mere rag- picker of scandal and gossip, searching the garbage barrels of this earth for every unclean, tainted misdoing and mishap that can be dragged to light, the so-called newspaper, which interests itself and which labors to interest its readers in the personalities and the ignoble occurrences of the day, in the prize fights and the mean preliminary steps to boxing matches, which attends to de- tails of receptions and teas and balls, and traces the comings and goings and doings of private persons, while treating grave matters with levity and imperti- nence, with what effect can such a newspaper be read? I do not care to say. If I spoke my mind I might strike harshly at too many men whose reading is confined to the reading of such periodicals. I will adventure so much remark as this that I would prefer absolute illiteracy for a son or a daughter of mme, total inability to spell one printed word, rather than that he or she should be habitually a redder of the coiimon rewspaper or magazine of to-day, and a reader of nothiug better. Mr. Mays. You would not expect this small committee, though, to abolish the magazines, would you? t ^i • i t Mr Burrows. No. I wish it could be done. Now, i thmk i can practically close with that quotation, and keep my word and prove that I have something like terminal facilities. This is a sausage. It can be made a foot or a rod or a mile long, and if I did not run out of wind I could keep on interesting myself in the eloquence o± my own voice endlessly, perhaps; but I know that you gentlemen must need some refreshment. We have been producing that second-class mail matter at the rate of more than 10 a day for the last 10 years, an iniplicit libel that goes out against this country in the shape of those false, those misleading, those misrepresenting statements that are prevalent in the monthly and other nTagazines. They will call no attention. The who e pub- licity machinery of the country is on the other side of that question They will call no attention; but I want to call your attention to the 364 PAECBIiS POST. point from an advertiser's standpoint. I went into a promiiaent banker's office, and I saw several of these banking periodicals, ahd; I said, " For goodness' sake, Colonel, how many of those things are there?" He said, "I don't know, but I think 50 or upward." Since then I have found 85, and since that time I have found -one more in Oklahoma, so that there are 86 of those banking periodicals published in the United States. I said, " Colonel, how inany of those are needed for the proper advertisement and exploitation of wares that may be distributed through your authority in financial circles? " He said, "Three, possibly; certainly not 10-" I said, "What are the rest? " He said, " They are leg pullers." In oth«r words, this country is printing 86 or more banking periodicals, when 5 or 10 only are needed. To get perfect publicity he must get into all of them ; and even if the rate is low it is a very expensive proposition. Were the chilling frost of an increase of 2 cents a pound a y^ear p^ut upon these publications until they were carried up to the level of the rest of the service, nine-tenths of these banking periodicals would pass out of existence. This country would no longer be doing the economically wasteful thing of cutting down whole forests that we need every year for the purpose of producing those weeds, tiaose garbage barrels of literature that I have referred to. Manufacturers and advertisers might then get 100 per cent of publicity and pay the periodical twice the price, and get it for half the advertising appro- priation. But that is not the qu^tion you have to consider. Thi§ case of the English postal telegraph service is an instance of the power of an entering wedge. This growth of the second- class mail is another instance of an entering wedge that has devel- oped by fearful leaps and bounds. Away down in Australia — and here is the conclusion of my ar- gument — a generous, good farmer, an English settler, who got home- sick and wanted to see something that reminded him of the good old fatherland that he had left, sent to England for a pair of those English hares or rabbits, and the soil and the climate proved con- genial, and a boy with a piece of chalk and a blackboard can mul- tiply pretty fast, but the rabbits did better. [Laughter.] So that in a few years they had millions of those rabbits, or perhaps billions, down there, and the Government of New South Wales for many years has offered a standing reward of £25,000 to anybody who would discover some way of exterminating the rabbit pest. Now they are shipping 4,000,000 a year in refrigerated steamships to England for food. In New Zealand a similar development took place. That time it was a Scotchman, a Caledonian, who got crazy to see something that reminded him of the Grampian Hills, and he sent home and had brought out a Scotch thistle, which proved to have marvelous powers of reproduction. A few years ago up near Boston some scientist wanted to breed a hardy species of silk worm, and he got over from Europe a pair of gypsy moth, and a strong November wind, a gale, wrecked the cage in which they were kept, and the moths escaped. Your State, Mr. Weeks, has spent millions of dollars and will spend millions of dollars every year in the absolutely futile attempt to stop the pest of the gypsy moth. PARCELS POST. 365 And it is in legislation, just as it is in biology, the harmful, the useless, the noxious growths, those growths underneath which are concealed selhsh things, underneath which are concealed millions of dollars m unearned profits a year— those are the growths that pro- ceed with lightning rapidity; and if you ever encourage any parcels- post act, 1 do not care what it may be, good or bad, comparatively speaJnng, local or general, it will be just another entering wedge like the British postal-telegraph service— which I did not bring out, but I would like to— like the second-class mail matter; like the cotton- boll weevil; like the gypsy moth; like the Caledonian thistle; like the Australian rabbit ; and I am only one, and I am a little bit of a fel- low, but just so far as I have a pound or an ounce of influence here or anywhere else I have fought against all or any parcels-post leg- islation for years, and when I die I will die like an old coon— I will be biting and fighting and scratching and kicking to the end. [Laughter.] I thank you for your attention. The Chairman. We are very much obliged to you for your infor- mation. (At 12,20 o'clock p. m. the committee took a recess until 2 o'clock p. m.) AFTER RECESS. The subcommittee reconvened, pursuant to the taking of recess, at 2 o'clock p. m., Hon. James T. Lloyd (chairman) presiding. Mr. CoRET. Mr. Chairman, we will ask Mr. E. B. Moon, of Chi- cago, who represents the American League Association, who is secre- tary of the association, to address you. STATEMENT OF MR. EDWARD B. MOON. Mr. Moon. Mr. Chairman, I represent the American League of Associations, of Chicago, which is made up of wholesalers — about 300 in number. Our membership is made up of the wholesalers in all lines — dry goods, general merchandise, hardware, boots, shoes, cloth- ings — in fact, it will cover nearly the whole field of merchandise. The American League of Associations was organized in November, 1909. It was fathered by Mr. George H. Maxwell, a man who has given the best part of his life to the development of " back to the farm " and the " home-crofting " idea. It was organized with the idea of assist- ing and cooperating in the upbuilding of the small towns of the country along civic, educational, and commercial lines. The members of the association soon after its organization were led to look upon the parcels-post movement as one which portends serious injury to the small towns of the United States if crystallized into law, and from that moment until now the American League of Associations has actively opposed the parcels-post movement. The Chairman. Did you say that was George H. Maxwell ? Mr. Moon. Yes. The, Chairman. And what did you say was his connection with your association? 366 PABCELS POST. Mr. Moon. I said it was fathered by Mr. George H. Maxwell. The Chairman. What relation has he to the express companies at the present time? Mr. Moon. None that I know of. Mr. Lafean. Did he ever have any? Mr. Moon. I do not know. The Chairman. Is it not a fact that he is the representative of the express companies at the present time ? Mr. Moon. I do not know that he is. I do not know that he is not. Mr. Maxwell for a great many years conducted a " home croft- ing " idea in Chicago, published a paper along that line, and inter- ested a great many people who are interested in these things. The Chairman. Is he the gentleman that took so much interest in the irrigation of arid lands ? Mr. Moon. Yes; his ideas are the ones which took root in the forming of our organization in 1909. In some way the impression has gained credence that the Amer- ican League of Associations is in some way connected with the ex- press companies in their opposition to parcels post. As executive secretary of this association, I wish to state most em- phatically that the American League of Associations is not connected in any way, form, or manner, directly or indirectly, with the express companies. That it is not affiliated, directly or indirectly, with the express companies in their opposition to parcels post. That our opposition to parcels post is genuine and sincere, be- cause of the belief of all our members that parcels post will work serious injury to retail merchants, villages, and small towns of the United States, and in that way will deplete or detroy these towns, a result which will prove a serious injury to the Nation itself. In further support to the above statement I herewith submit a financial statement, including a list of members, which is full and complete in every particular: Forward $15, 687. 53 Chicago ofBce expense: J. P. Petrie, salary $880.00 E. B. Moon, salary 800. 00 Clerks, salaries 1,960.31 Supplies 273. 79 Equipment 259. 19 Rent— 2008 Calumet Avenue 1, 300. 00 430 Rand-McNally Building 158. 67 Grand Pacific 4. 00 ■ 5, 645. 96 21, 323. 49 6, 374. 41 27, 697. 90 This is to certify that the above abstract statement of cash agrees with the books of account of said American League of Associations, which books of account have been duly audited by us and found correct. Chicago CACtrLATiNo Co. A. KiNNAMAN, President. P. L. Kjolstad, Auditor. A. F. Ratteat Gbeig, 0. P. A. Chicago, July 8, 1911. PARCELS POBT. 367 LIST OF StJBSCEIBINQ MEMBERS. Adams, Meldrum & Anderson Co., Buffalo. Arbuthnet-Stephenson Co., Pittsburg. Adams & Elting Co., Chicago. Allen & Co., Benj., Chicago. American Stove Co., St. Louis. Ayres & Co., L. S., Indianapolis. Baltimore Bargain House, Baltimore. Bartel Co., Adam H., Richmond, Ind. Belknap Hdw. & Mfg. Co., Louisville. Bittner, Hunsicker & Co., AUentown. Blodgett, Ordway & Webber, Boston. Boston Dry Goods Co., Boston. Bostwick-Braun Co., Toledo. Brittain Dry Goods, John S., St. Joseph. Brown-Durrell Co., New York. Burnham, Hanna, Munger Dry Goods Co., Kansas City. Burnham, Stoepel & Co., Detroit. Butler Brothers, Chicago. Byrne & Hammer Dry Goods Co., Omaha. Battreall Shoe Co., St. Joseph. Benedict-Warren Hardware Co., Mem- phis. Biddle Purchasing Co., New York. Bunte Bros., Chicago. Beacon Falls Rubber Shoe Co., Chi- cago. Burley & Tyrrell Co., Chicago. Baumgardner & Co., Toledo. Baldwin, A., & Co., New Orleans. Becker, John, Co., Belen, N. Mex. Callender, McAuslan & Troup Co., Providence. Carter Dry Goods Co., Louisville. Claflin, H. B., Co., New York. Clawson & Wilson Co., Buffalo. Cooper, Coate & Casey Dry Goods Co., Los Angeles. Covington Co., The, Jacksonville. Crowley Bros., Detroit. Carletonn Dry Goods Co., St. Louis. Carson, Pirie, Scott & Co., Chicago. Campbell, S. W., Chicago. Carpenter Paper Co., Omaha. Case & Sanborn, Chicago. Cottrell Saddlery Co., Richmond. Columbus Grocery Co., Columbus, Ga. Dewitt-Seitz Co., Duluth. Dlnkins-Davidson Hardware Co., At- lanta. De Laval Separator Co., New York. Dunham, Carrigan & Hayden, San Francisco. Bdson, Moore & Co., Detroit. Bay & Walker Dry Goods Co., St. Louis. Field, Marshall, & Co., Chicago. Farley, Harvey & Co., Boston. French, F. E., Chicago. Ferguson-McKinney Dry Goods Co., St. Louis. FarweirCo., John V., Chicago. Fairbank Co., N. K., Chicago. Fischer Bros., Seattle. Cleischner, Mayer & Co., Portland. Forbes Tea & Coffee Co., Jas. H., St. Louis. I'rankfurth Hardware Co., Wm., Mil- waukee. Go wan-Pay ton-Twohy Co., Duluth. Guthmann, Carpenter & Telling, Chi- cago. Goll & Frank Co., Milwaukee. Gilderhaus, Wulfing & Co., St. Louis. Goodall, Brown & Co., Birmingham. Goodbar & Co., Memphis. Gellgr, Ward & Hasner Hardware Co., St. Louis. Gowan-Payton-Congdon, Duluth. Gauss-Langenberg Hat Co., St. Lopis. Greenwood Grocery Co., Greenwood, Miss. Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett Co., Chi- cago. Haines & Sons, Jas. B., Pittsburg. Havens & Geddes Co., Indianapolis. Hibben, Hollweg & Co., Indianapolis. Holbrook, Merrill & Stetson, San Fran- cisco. Hargadlne-McKittrick Dry Goods Co., St. Louis. Hamilton-BroviTi Shoe Co., St. Louis. Huning & Connell, Los Lunas, N. Mex. Iowa Retail Hardware Association, Mason City, Iowa. Johnson- Woodbury Hat Co., St. Joseph. Jones, Witter & Co., Columbus. Jordan, W. B. & W. G., Minneapolis. Kirkendall & Co., F. P., Omaha. Kahn Tailoring Co., Indianapolis. Kohn, Weil & Co., New Orleans. Kroeger, Amos-James Grocery Co., St. Louis. Keidel & Co., Henry, Baltimore. Kelly, How. Thomson Co., Duluth. Los Angeles Saddlery & Finding Co., Los Angeles. Lee-Glass-Andreesen Hardware Co., Omaha. Landauer & Co., Milwaukee. Long Bros. Grocery Co., Kansas City. La Crosse Cracker & Candy Factory, La Crosse. Longley, Low & Alexander, Chicago. Maxwell, McClure & Fitts Dry Goods Co., Kansas City. Maxwells Talisroan, Chicago. Majestic Manufacturing Co., St. Louis. McCord-Brady Co., Omaha. Mississippi Travelers' Association, Jackson. Mayer Boot & Shoe Co., F., Milwaukee. Maxwell & Co., S. A., Chicago. Marshall-Wells Hardware Co., Duluth. Morey Merchandise Co., Denver. 368 PABCELS POST. Minneapolis Jobbers, Minneapolis. ilackie Grocer Co., Albert, New Orleans. Merrell Drug Co., J. S., 9t. Louis. Mound City Paint & Color Co., St. Louis. Norvell-Sbapleigli Hardware Co., St. Louis. Noyes-Norman Sboe Co., St. Joseph. National Shoe Wholesale Association, Chicago. National Candy Co., St. Louis. Orr Shoe Co., J. K., Atlanta. Palmer & Co., Percival B., Chicago. Patrick & Co., F. A., Duluth. Pittsburg Dry Goods Co., Pittsburg. Paxton.& Gallagher Co., Omaha. Peaslee-Gaulbert Co., Louisville. , Phillips Bros. & Co., Baltimore. Pacific Hardware & Steel Co., San Francisco. Parker, Holmes & Co., Boston. Pitkin & Brooks, Chicago. - Reid, Murdock & Co., Chicago. Rice, Stix Dry Goods Co., St. Louis. Richardson Dry Goods Co., St. Joseph. Robinson, Norton & Co.. J. M., Louis- ville. Root & McBride Co., Cleveland. Ridenour-Baker Grocery Co., Kansas City. Richards & Conover, Kansas City. Root & McBride Co., Chicago. Roundy, Peckham & Dexter Co., Mil- waukee. Rosenthal-Sloan Millinery Co., St. Louis. Selz, Schwab & Co., Chicago. Sheldon Dry Goods Co., Columbus. Shillito Co., John, Cincinnati. Silvey & Co., John, Atlanta. Smith & Co., M. E., Omaha. Smith - JIcGord - Townsend Dry Goods Co., Kansas City. Smith-Wallace Shoe Co., Chicago. Strawbridge & Clothier, Philadelphia. Smith & Sons, R. P., Chicago. Simmons Hardware Co., St. Louis. Stein & Ellbogan, Chicago. Stix & Co., Louis, Cincinnati. St. Louis Jobbers, St. Louis. Smith Dry Goods Co., El Paso, III. St. Paul Jobbers, St. Paul. Steele-Wedeles Co., Chicago. Shanks, Phillips & Co., Memphis. Strevell-Peterson Hardware Co., Salt Lake City. Tolertou, Warfield Co.. Sioux City. Tootle Campbell Dry Goods Co., St. Joseph. Townley iletal i: Hardware Co., Kan- sas City. A'olker & Co., Wm., Kansas City. Vegen Btos. (Inc.), Billings, Mont. Walker-Stetson Co., Boston. Wells Co., M. D., Chicago. Western Dry Goods Co.. Seattle. 'Wheeler & JXotter Mercantile Co., St. Joseph. Western & National Grocery Cos., Chi- cago. Wyeth Hardware & Manufacturing Co., St. Joseph. Wright & Wilhehny Co., Omaha. Warfield-Pratt-Howell, Des Moines. Wheeler-Motter Mercantile Co., St. Joseph. Webb-Freyschlag Mercantile Co., Kan- sas City. Toung, Smyth, Field Co., Philadelphia. We believe that a parcels post wouli work a hardship on the vil- lages, small towns, and smaller cities of the country, becattse it would tend to take away the business of the retail merchants in them. The taking away or transfer of this trade to other channels will of ne- cessity drive employees and principals elsewhere, and naturally, of course, following the trend of trade, they would go to the larger cities. With such a result, capital will be withdrawn, the banks, churches, and schools will be correspondingly affected, the army of commercial travelers will cease their frequent visits, the hotel keepers and the liverymen, too, will find their business seriously affected, and no doubt will be driven to the larger centers of trade ; property values would, therefore, following all this change, seriously decrease, and the tax rate would of necessity be increased. Mr. Weeks. Why would the tax rate of necessity increase? Mr. Moon. If the property values in a village or in a given terri- tory decrease, the tax rate must either be increased or the assessments must go up. Mr. Weeks. Yes ; in that particular locality. Mr. Moon. Yes. Mr. Weeks. But if they moved somewhere else that might reduce the tax rate in the other places. PABOEIiS POST. 3g^ Mr., Moon. In the larger cities. If they go to the larger cities, it will perhaps have that effect there. With such a change we are inclined to believe that it will injure thousands and thousands of citizens who are not .retail merchants but whose welfare and prosperity is closely linked to that of the retail merchants in these towns. It will have a tendency to- drive population to the large overcrowded cities, and with this would come to the Nation all the evil results which follow from a congestion of population. We believe it will have a tendency to degenerate our people. We believe that the community is best off which has the greatest diversity of industries. We believe that the depletion of the small town will injure rather than benefit the farmer in whose name and for whose benefit the parcels post is proposed. The nearer to these social and trade centers land is located the more valuable. The farther away from them, the less value the land. The small towns and villages that dot the maps of the United States are the social centers of the farmer and his family for miles around. It is in these little social centers that the school, the church, and the lodge will be found. It is there that the farmer's family attend church and Sunday school; the children when graduated from the grades attend the village high school. It is there the lodge, church, and school entertainments are held. These sacred influences as they exist in these small towns have developed the dignity, the mental and physical strength, and the lofty moral purpose of our citizenship, all Of which has tended to make this Nation strong and great. The small town is not only a social and trading center for the farmer and his family, it is a training ground for young men. Then the varied experiences on nearby farm, in store, shop, railroad office, lumber yard, and so forth, lays the foundation for a type of manhood which has no equal in any other country in the world. It is from these small towns that many of the lawyers, the physicians, the edu- cators, and the business men have come. Deplete these towns and' the farmer as well as the citizens in these towns will be injured, and the Nation, too, will suffer because of the degenerating influences which will follow. The retail merchant has been a necessary factor in the building up of these trade centers. He represents the pioneer spirit of our com- mercial growth. He has been such an important factor in making this a bigger and a better nation that surely he deserves fair treat- ment. We are opposed to parcels post because we are led to believe that the chief beneficiaries will be those who are or might become interested in a change of the present method of distribution. In our opinion the consumer will get his goods no cheaper, because the necessary expense of distribution now borne by the jobber will o± necessity be borne by other shoulders. The demand for a parcels post has grown out of the general teel- ing among all classes of citizens that express rates are too high, it the Interstate Commerce Commission will act under the authority granted in the rate law we believe the real demand for parcels post will be removed so far as the people in general are concerned. 3110—11 ^24 3.70 PARCELS POST. Mr. Weeks. Has not the Interstate Commerce Commission acted always when cases have been brought to their attention ? Mr. Moon. I do not think so. Mr. Weeks. You do not think so ? Mr. Moon. No, sir. I feel quite sure that a number of counts have been filed before the Interstate Commerce Commission, something like eight or nine months ago, by the Chicago Association of Com- merce. I am not sure how many counts were filed, but I am quite sure there were a number, and the matter was presented by very able attorneys, and so far as I have been able to find out, nothing has been done. Mr. Weeks. No decision has been rendered? Mr. Moon. No, sir; nothing whatever has been done. I will be very glad to furnish you what information I have on that as soon as I get oack to Chicago. The Chicago Association of Commerce took a very active part in that matter several months ago. The Chairman. What was the purpose of the investigation? Mr. Moon. So far as I can recall now it was to gather evidence and submit it, asking, on the basis of the evidence submitted, an adjustment of rates. I think that evidence was gathered and sub- mitted soon after the rate law was passed and the Interstate Com- merce Commission was empowered. Of course it has not been so long; it has not been so many months. There is no doubt that express rates should be adjusted, but cer- tainly this offers no special reason for launching the country into a parcels-post scheme, which, to say the least, looks to be expensive and menacing. A parcels post based on a charge less than the cost of performing the service will discriminate against the retail merchant in the small towns and in favor of the big retail mail-order houses and the large d^artment stores of the big cities. We would therefore look upon a parcels-post law of this sort as manifestly unfair to the retail mer- chants of the country and to the wholesalers as well. A cost charge would not, however, eliminate the great fundamental objections to a parcels post. It is a step in the wrong direction. We helieve that the true field of government is fully realized where it aids and protects equal opportunity everywhere. It must be re- garded as a step in the wrong direction where a government of free men blocks or hinders the pathway of individual endeavor. We be- lieve with Lincoln that the object of the Government is to elevate the ■condition of men, to lift artificial weights from all shoulders, to dcaT the paths of laudable pursuit for all, to afford all an unfettered «tart and a fair chance in the race of life. We believe that a parcels post will have a tendency to limit the field of the individual. We are led to believe that a parcels-post law will lead to an enor- mous outlay for equipment, terminal facilities, and so forth, and for increased space in all post-ofiice buildings. Mr. Weeks. Have you any estimates to submit as to things of that sort? Mr. Moon. No, sir. It would of necessity require an increased and ■ever increasing horde of Government employees, without compensat- ing results. We are opposed to a local rural-parcels post because of and for the same fundamental reasons we are opposed to a parcels post of any kind. PARCELS POST. 371 The Chairman. You regard a rural parcels post as the first step toward a general parcels post? Mr. Moon. We regard it as an entering wedge toward a general parcels post, and, in fact. Postmaster General Meyer long years ago justified that view of the proposition. Mr. Lafean. You refer to his opposition to rural routes ? Mr. Moon. No; he was in favor of a rural parcels post and said that as an entering wedge it was a step in the right direction. That is all I have to submit unless you have some questions. The Chairman. Then your opposition to the parcels post is based upon the idea that it will injure the country merchant or small retail dealer ? Mr. Moon. Well, yes ; a little further than that, however. The Chairman. That is one thing. Now, what else ? Mr. Moon. That it will hurt the town; that it will injure the town. The Chairman. Because it affects the retail dealer in his business? Mr. Moon. Yes. The Chairman. It reduces the business and therefore affects the business interests of the town ? Mr. Moon. Of the town ; yes, sir. The Chairman. And when it reduces the business interests of the town that has the effect of reducing the business interests in the locality and the price of land in and about the town? Mr. Moon. That is it. The Chairman. And in the end it will result in injury to the farmer himself ? Mr. Moon. Yes; that is our view. The Chairman. Are there any other questions? If not, that is all. Mr. CoRET. We would like to have a few words from Mr. Lewis, of Pennsylvania. STATEMENT OF MR. W. P. LEWIS, SECRETARY OE THE PENNSYL- VANIA HARDWARE ASSOCIATION, HUNTINGDON, PA. Mr Lewis. The points that we desire to emphasize are few in number, and an effort will be made to not cover the ground that has already been recently covered. We adhere rather to principles in- volved than a statement of the case concerning what might happen under a parcels post. I thinlf the inferences as to what might hap- pen under a parcels post have been strongly presented. We are opposed to a parcels post for two reasons: First, that any governmental service which is not self-sustaining, and which is a service to a portion of the populace, is equivalent to subsidizing that service, and we are opposed to a subsidy. In fact we believe that if the Government in its liberalness wants to enter broadly into subsidies, the high cost of living which has engaged the opimon ot the country so much recently could be very desirably alleviated f the Government would establish on the outside of many ot our thriving cities Government farms and produce ^}'^^^J,^^\^^Sg^ ^^^f chickens and milk and vegetables, and then f^^^^f/^"^ ^f^J^if^^ cost away yonder less than it costs the Government to ^oduce them .for they cirtainly, in developing a parcels post ^^^§^7^7^^*%*^^ residents of the outlying districts a service at outrageously less than Scost of production, fo that it is a subsidy-and we are opposed to those subsidies. 372 PAECELS POST. The other fundamental reasons for our opposition to a parcels post is that while it is commonly accepted that the Government should, and in the nature of the case must, have a monopoly of the matter of distributing mail matter, we contend that the Government jumps the bars and leaves that field altogether and enters into the realm of merchandise or freight transportation, which is a field that should be open to private enterprise, and that the Government has abso- lutely no business whatsoever in entering that field and competing with its citizens. The Chairman. Do you not consider it already in the field, with the present parcels-post system? Mr. Lewis. I do not. In the nature of the case, it is always neces- sary for some line of demarcation to be established in defining any given principle. We have not a parcels post to-day, though there are those who undertake to state that the present service is in a limited sense a parcels post. It is simply a line of demarcation covering mail up to a 4-pound package. That is the mail. On that side is the province of carrying mail. On the other side is the realm of freight transportation, or busi- ness transportation. Those are the two fundamental points, without entering into the details of what it would do ; and I am firmly of the conviction that it would do much that has been stated to you gentle- men, much that has not been stated to you gentlemen, and I want to say to you that I rode on the train yesterday with a man from Caro- lina, who is a hardware merchant, and I asked him if there were rural routes emanating from his place of business. He said there were. I said, " Do you know any of the rural carriers ? " He said, " I do." I said, " Do you ever, under any circumstance, send pack- ages from your town to your customers out on the route ? " He said, " Yes." I said, " Do you pay those carriers anything for this serv- ice ? " He said, " I do not." " Does the farmer at the other end of the line pay the carrier anything for the service ? " He said, "" He does not." " Well, does the carrier do this from the sense of a pure desire to accommodate ? " " Well," he said, " the actual operation is that the farmer at some period during the year will make the carrier a present of a chicken or a dozen or two of eggs or a peck of potatoes or some apples, or he will give his horse a feed." We have a parcels post right now that does not cost the farmer a cent. But under the arrangements that are contemplated, under the bills that I have seen, think what it will cost. This present arrange- ment works perfectly satisfactorily to the farmer, perfectly satis- factorily to the merchant, and they are the only two that are involved. But under the bills which are contemplated that would be shut ofE; this mail carrier could not take anything at all. Mr. Merchant would then have to put his 25 cents in stamps on the package, regardless of the value of the package, up to the weight of 11 pounds, and Mr. Farmer would have to put that 25 cents on, and that would in all probability be charged on the merchant's books, though the merchant is out the cash and the farmer settles at 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 months, as the case may be. The merchant is out the cash, and at the end of the time the farmer, in the settling, would in all probability raise a serious objection to paying the freight. Delivery is what he wants. Delivery is what he had before. The result is that, in our opinion, the evidence which creates the impression that the country is aflame PABOELS POST. 373 for a parcels post is absolutely manufactured evidence. It is very easy in the meetings of grangers or anywhere else to get a unanimous vote in favor of anything that will give something for nothing. It is very easy. But you gentlemen know when you come to get down to the point of formulating into actual practice a business proposition, at that point you have got to brush aside the froth of exuberance, and you have got to get down to brass tacks. In my opinion, if anything can ever be done, the only practical thing under the sun that would relieve the case of an outrageous imposition is this. There is just this one point that might develop it. If it costs nine and a fraction cents to handle a pound of second-class matter, it is not clear to me the line of mathematics by which it can be deduced that 2 cents a pound would give a profit, and 2 cents a pound is what is contemplated under the 11-pound arrangement. That a deficit would occur there is absolutely no question. If the Government feels that it is a remedial measure to take over all the express business of the country, appraise the express companies' property and take it over, and then make the distri- bution of packages a monopoly, such as the distribution of mail is, and then place that distribution upon the basis of at least a charge covering the cost, at that point I believe that our argument would be estopped. But that is a business proposition, and no parcels post that is established on any basis other than a business proposition, in these days of efficient management, can be otherwise than dis- creditable to the management of the great affairs of our country. It has been pointed out that the Post Office Department is the one department of the Government which makes a charge for its services. It is autocratic. It can make whatever charge it pleases, and the public pay. And yet, occupying the position of ability to make whatever charge it pleases The Chairman. What do you mean? Mr. Lewis. For the service. The Chairman. You mean the Post Office Department to-day can charge anything it pleases? Mr. Lewis. No ; I mean that the Post Office Department does make the charge; that is, under Congress. Congress fixes the rate of postage, does it not ? The Chairman. Yes. Mr. Lewis. Therefore the Post Office Department or the Gov- ernment makes its own charge. The Chairman. The Government does, but not the Post Office Department. That is what I wanted to bring out. Mr. Lewis. Yes ; the Government does. It makes its own charge, and yet, on the basis of making its own charge, we have seen an annual deficit. I understand that the present Postmaster General has effected a substantial saving, but we have seen a deficit year alter year, which seems to l^ad to the view that there might possibly be some better business arrangement in the department, which would make a charge that would make the account on both ends meet. And we do not believe that the addition of a parcels-post service to the mail service would increase the ability of the department to make both ends meet. , ,. i 1 t -i. „ ia : So we say, regardless of that fact, that we firmly believe it would operate absolutely against the interests of the rural districts; and 374 PABOBLS POST. apart from that fact we are opposed to it, first, on the ground that it is not business, and second, upon the ground that we do not be- lieve that the Government has any business whatsoever entering the field of private enterprise. We do believe that the Government can and should investigate the operation of these companies that are charged with express service and see that the public is properly served. We believe that remedy is possible. That is all I have to say on that subject. The Chaieman. Who is your next speaker? Mr. CoEET. Mr. Chairman, I do not know that the other parties are here who spoke to me in regard to addressing the committee, and if I have overlooked anyone who wishes to be heard on this side of the proposition we will be glad to have him speak. STATEMENT OF MR. F. A. DODGE, OF WASHINGTON, D. C, REPRE- SENTING THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF RETAIL GROCERS. Mr. Dodge. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I live in Washington. I represent the National Association of Retail Grocers. The Chairman. How do you represent them? Mr. Dodge. As their representative for this hearing, owing to the fact that they could not send a representative. Their representative, Mr. Green, was in Europe, and he was not able to attend this hearing. The Chairman. Are you a grocer? Mr. Dodge. I am in the grocery business here in Washington ; yes, sir. I am president of the Retail Grocers' Association in Wash- ington. The Chairman. Go ahead. Mr. Dodge. I am not here, gentlemen, to attempt to argue this question with you or to try and illustrate it in any way whatsoever, because my ability would not allow me to do such a thing; and it has been very ablj^ presented to you, I am sure, from other people who are capable of doing it. I just want to say that the National Association of Retail Grocers, and general merchants throughout the United States, representing in all about 150,000 retail grocers and merchants, are opposed to the parcels post. I think, gentlemen, while I will not be sure that this association is one of the largest, while it may not carry the largest financial business, at the same time it represents one of the largest associations in the country. I have here simply a copy of all that I want to present to the com- mittee, in the form of a resolution passed at the last convention of the National Association of Retail Grocers held in Denver on June 13-16, 1911. It is as follows: Whereas the recommendations to Congress of the Postmaster General and the President tliat a rural parcels post be inaugurated on rural mail-delivery routes, observing 11 pounds, the international weight limit, as the maximum weight of parcels in such post, has encouraged the Postal Progress League of Massachusetts and other advocates of parcels post to redouble their efforts to have Congress adopt an extended parcels post. These theories point out the present differences in postal rates and weights operated in the tTnited States and those for like service In Europe, and charge undue discrimination against the people of this country. They ur^e that It is obligatory upon Congress to establish an extended par- cels post as a means for cheapening express rates and as an economic necessity in behalf of the whole people; that the opposition comes from retailers who PARCELS POST. 375 4. v :^^