CORNELL UNIVERSITY LIBRARY THIS BOOK IS ONE OF A COLLECTION MADE BY BENNO LOEWY 1854-1919 AND BEQUEATHED TO CORNELL UNIVERSITY Cornell University Library JN1413 1887 Home rule in America : olin 3 1924 030 499 101 Cornell University Library The original of tiiis book is in tine Cornell University Library. There are no known copyright restrictions in the United States on the use of the text. http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924030499101 HOME RULE IN- AMERICA ^ POLITICAL ADDRESS By ANDREW CARNEGIE, ESQ. GLASGOW MDCCCLXXXVII 2^^C &X ^ UIB-RIS 2^t ®' CO pi h9 ^RefiD -^cD)qR.K>^ u€TqRn« ^he -110056 ■thz.-UORD-t'uU3s°T7oh>; tt5e'vaip|q.°5frit/fc°to'buil5°ih ss sJ®r?n-a>®RGfln HOME RULE IN AMERICA EDINBURGH UNIVERSITY PRESS . AND A. CONSTABLE, PRINTERS TO HER MAJESTY. Glasgow Junior Liberal Association HOME RULE IN AMERICA BEING A POLITICAL ADDRESS DELIVERED IN ST. ANDREW'S HALLS ON TUESDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 1887 BY ANDREW CARNEGIE, ESQ. UNDER THE PRESIDENCY OF ROBERT WALLACE, ESQ., M.P. Edited from the text of THE SCOTTISH LEADER GLASGOW Published by the Glasgow Junior Liberal Association and Sold by the Booksellers MDCCCLXXXVII Glasgow Junior Liberal Association INSTITUTED 1880 HON. PRESIDENT. The Right Hon. Sir William Vernon Harcourt, M.P. CHAIRMAN. James Donald, 12 Ure Place. HON. TREASURER. Ralph R. Hogarth, Writer, 29 Bath Street. HON. SECRETARY. Andrew M'Kechnie, Writer, 107 St. Vincent Street. LIST OF PAST PRESIDENTS. The Most Noble the Marquis of Breadalbane. The Right Hon. Sir George Otto Trevelyan, Bart., M.P. The Right Hon, John Morley, M.P. The Right Hon. Earl of Rosebery. HOME RULE IN AMERICA. MEETING was held in St. Andrew's Halls under the auspices of the Glasgow Junior Liberal Association on Tuesday evening 13th September, at which Mr. Andrew Carnegie delivered a lecture on 'Home Rule in America.' The event was looked forward to by a large portion of the community, not only because of the importance of the subject of Home Rule, which has a paramount place in the minds of the people at the present time, but because of the popularity of the lecturer and the eminence he has attained in the commercial world and as a philanthropist, and as one who holds the friendly bond of union between this country and the United States of America. There was Consequently a large demand for tickets of admission, not only by members of the Associa- tion, but by many beyond its pale who were anxious to see and hear the now celebrated Scoto-American. The doors of the hall were opened at seven o'clock, and ere long a goodly assemblage had gathered, which increased tilfthe hall Home Rule in America. area and gallery were filled, many ladies occupying places in the gallery. The hall presented a gay appearance, being hung with flags of various nations, shields supporting trophies of flags, and drapings of crimson cloth. Behind the gallery, at the opposite end from the platform, was a very beautiful representation of the Royal arms, supported on one side by a picture of Britannia, with the motto, appropriate enough for the meeting, ' Labor et Industria,' and on the other of the Scottish Royal Arms, supported by unicorns, with the motto, ' Nemo me Impune Lacesset.' During the interval Mr. Berry played selections on the organ which were greatly appreciated, and Mr. Carnegie took his place on the plat- form amid the enthusiastic cheers of the large audience and the strains of ' See the conquering hero comes.' Mr. Carnegie was accompanied to the platform by Mr. Robert Wallace, M.P. ; Sir William Collins; Provost Cochran, Paisley; Mr. Hugh Watt, M.P. ; Mr. Gilbert Beith; Mr. D. Frazer ; Mr. Andrew M'Kechnie, Secretary of Glasgow Junior Liberal Association ; Mr. William Fife ; Mr. J. L. Addie ; Mr. R. B. M'Ouat ; Mr. D. M. Scott ; Bailie Marr ; Mr. J. A. Bruce ; Mr. A. H. M'Lean ; Rev. R. Wallace ; Dr. Grieve, Mr. James C. Maclaren, Councillor M'Lachlan, Edinburgh ; Mr. R. M'Lauchlan, Ohio ; Mr. Leonard Gow, Jun. ; Mr. D. M'Leod, Mr. John M'Farlane, Edinburgh ; Mr. Leonard Gow, Sen. ; Councillor Graham, Mr. Robert Ewing, Rev. David Macrae, Dundee; Mr. James Finlay, Langside; Rev. J. M. Cruickshanks, Mr. James Orr, Mr. Mr. Wallace's Speech. Peter Burt, Mr. Thomas Wilson, Mr. Wm. Barton, Mr. J. S. M'Gill, Mr. Wm. Cairns, Mr. G. Lauder (Mr. Carnegie's uncle), Mr. John Ferguson, Rev. George Milne, Mr. Wm. Murray, Mr. R. Finlay Dalzell, Paisley; Mr. Richard M'Ghee, Mr. Richard Brown, Dr. Bruce, Mr. R. Macfie, Mr. W. R. Thomson, Mr.E. C. C. Stanford, Dalmuir ; Mr. R. Wylie, Kilwinning] Mr. D. Munro, Mr. J. M. Jack, Mr. James Fleming, Mr. James Martin, Mr. George Lancaster, ex-Provost Dick, Kinning Park ; Mr. Finley Bell, Mr. John Millar, Paisley; ex-Provost Campbell, Greenock; Mr. Daniel M'Kinlay, Mr. Adam Pringle, Mr. James Smith, Bonnybridge ; Bailie Alexander, Partick; James R. Chal- mers, Mr. John W. M'Laren, Mr. George Park Macindoe of Duntocher ; Mr. Andrew Alcorn, Rev. Robert Wardrop Mr. Ralph R. Hogarth, Mr. John Murdoch, Mr. John Angus, Mr. W. Forbes, Mr. W. Craibe Angus, ex-Bailie Burt, Rev. George Gladstone, Councillor Morrin, Mr. G. W. Clark, Mr. David Currie, Mr. A. King, New York ; Mr. Archibald Robertson, Mr. John Williams, Wishaw; Mr. James Donald, Mr. David M'Lardy, Mr. James Donaldson, Mr. James M 'Galium, Mr. Archd. Cochrane, Mr. John Donachy, Mr. Alex. Fraser, Mr. J. D. Hutchison, Mr. Jas. Gilies, Mr. Wm. J. Lawrie, Mr. Thos. Thomson, Mr. Alex. Spiers, etc. Apologies were received from Mr. John Morley, M.P. ; Mr. Chamberlain, M.P. ; Mr. Bright, M.P. ; Mr. Angus Sutherland, M.P. ; Mr. R. B. Cunninghame-Graham, M.P. ; Home Rule in America. Mr. A. L. Brown, M.P. ; Dr. Cameron, M.P. ; Mr. Donald Crawford, M.P. ; Mr. W. B. Barbour, M.P. ; Mr. E. R. Russell, ex-M.P. for Bridgeton; Sir Thomas Clark, Bart., Lord Provost of Edinburgh j Mr. Thomas Glen Coats, Principal Caird, Professor Blackie, Edinburgh; Professor Meiklejohn, ex-SherifF Harry Smith, Lord Dean of Guild Blackie, Glasgow; Mr. James Campbell of Tillichewan, Mr. John Wilson. Mr. E. R. Russell wrote — 'I hope you will have a successful and instructive meeting. To my great regret I shall not be able to be present.' Mr. Angus Sutherland, M. P., wrote — 'I am very sorry I cannot be with you on Tuesday evening. I think it in- cumbent on me to be here at the present juncture, especially in view of the important business before Parliament this evening. I congratulate the Junior Liberal Association on being the means of affording the citizens of Glasgow the opportunity of having expounded to them the most perfect governmental constitution of modern times by one so well qualified for the task as Mr. Carnegie, and under the presidency of the ablest, most learned, and thoroughly democratic of our Scottish Parliamentary representatives.' Mr. John Bright, M.P., in his letter, said — 'Your friendly letter has just reached me. My engagements will not allow me to accept your invitation to the meeting for Tuesday. I can only therefore thank you for it.' Mr. John Morley wrote — 'I am sorry to say other Mr. Wallace's Speech. engagements prevent me from having the pleasure of being at your meeting to-morrow. With many thanks for your invitation.' Professor Blackie wrote — ' I am sorry that it does not consist with my arrangements to be at Glasgow on the 13th. I have not the slightest doubt that we have much to learn from America in the matter of Home Rule. Our present Parliament is an unmariageable machine, and a standing reproach to constitutional government.' On the motion of Mr. John M'Farlane, Scottish Leader, Edinburgh, Mr. Wallace, M.P., was called to the chair. The Chairman, who was received with loud cheers, said — LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,— Permit me to thank you for the honour you have paid me in asking me to occupy the position of president over this great gathering of Liberal politicians — {cheers) — and to express the pleasure that I have, relying upon your forbearance and support, in undertaking the important duty you have imposed upon me — a pleasure arising in consideration both of the name of our lecturer to-night and of the theme with which he intends to deal. {Cheers.) If Mr. Carnegie, of Scotland and America — (cheers) — required any introduction here, I think, in view of some recent events, there might be a visible appropriateness in having that introduction performed by one of the Parlia- Home Rule in America. mentary representatives of the city of Edinburgh. (Cheers^ But Mr. Carnegie requires no introduction to you from me or from any one, for he is well known, I suppose, to all the population of Great Britain — and favourably known to most of them in various and equally admirable capacities. {Cheers.) I dare say that to full-blown Tories — (laughter) — believing in the old idea of aristocratic rule, and to Toryescent Whigs, shiveringly acquiescing in the in- creasing development of popular institutions, he is not, perhaps, altogether favourably known — (laughter) — although I should expect that even they would regard with appro- bation the action of the man who, having achieved colossal wealth by his own energy and ability — (cheers) — has not turned his back upon the class from which he sprang — (cheers) — or the country which gave him birth and bravery, but by acts of signal liberality has shown that he looks upon wealth not as a sort of booty to be enjoyed in selfish isolation, but as a public trust, to be faithfully ad- ministered; and who has given capitalists and plutocrats a lesson in the distribution of those gains which they have won through the instrumentality of the toil of the masses of the population — {cheers) — a lesson which unless they learn on a more extensive scale than they seem at this moment to be doing, they may become involved in some strong and hard applications of those principles which are even now transforming the position of the successors in title of those who formerly seized the land of the people but left Mr. Wallace's Speech. the people to look after themselves. On the other hand, to advancing Liberals and to fully-advanced Radicals Mr. Carnegie is favourably known in a degree and with a com- pleteness that admit of but few qualifications — known as a fearless advocate of those democratic ideas which some of us believe to be destined to revolutionise the politics of this country. {Cheers.) As far as our business to-night is concerned, the most important point about Mr. Carnegie is that he is admirably fitted to handle the theme which he has undertaken to expound to us, and to press its lessons home upon us, inas- much as he is at once a Scotsman by birth and educa- tion, and an American by adoption and residence, fully acquainted accordingly from the inside with both British and American institutions, and well qualified to speak of them and to compare their advantages and disadvantages, and fully within his right if not within his duty in urging those reforms which his two-fold experience may have con- vinced him that we require. {Cheers.) But I have said my pleasure in occupying this honourable position to-night is associated not only with the personality of our lecturer, but with the nature of the theme which he is to discuss. {Cheers.) Home Rule in America is a subject that suggests to my mind very many interesting lines of disquisition, but it would be unpardonable in me to poach upon the lecturer's own preserves, or to deal with the details of the subject which he is to handle. At the same time you Home Rule in America. will forgive me if I say that I myself stand here in a some- what peculiar position, being one of those who know that it is altogether undesirable that the chairman of such a meeting as this should for long stand between the audience and the principal speaker. Yet still you will permit me to remind you that I stand in a somewhat peculiar position, because I am led to believe, — in fact I have been distinctly informed by the promoters of this meeting, that, having come many hundreds of miles in order to be present to take this place, it is expected that I should say something more than simply — Here is Mr. Carnegie — (loud cheers) — and therefore with your consent and permission, but with that only, I shall a little further occupy a few minutes — and they shall only be a very few minutes — of your time with one or two general observations suggested to me by the title of the lecture — Home Rule in America. Now, the most general observation that occurs to my mind about Home Rule in America, is this, that Home Rule in America, both in its original inception and in what I may call its new creation subsequently under circumstances which threatened its extinction altogether, was the, work of that great democratic principle which is now extending throughout all Europe, and throughout all circles of the civilised world. The constitution of Home Rule in America, at the first, was due to the courage of the American people, who rose to resist a tyranny that desired to use them only for its own purpose, and to govern them against Mr. Wallace's Speech. 13 their own consent. {Cheers.) And Home Rule in America as it was preserved — or, as I have already said, almost created a second time under comparatively recent circum- stances that threatened to it the greatest disaster — was due to the wisdom of the American people, who refused to throw away that union which is strength — {cheers) — and who, in so doing, indisputably demonstrated the fallacy and false- hood of the objection which is, in our own contemporary controversies on Irish Home Rule, sometimes taken by those who object — the objection, namely, that Home Rule in the hands of a democracy necessarily leads to disruption and separation. The experience of the American Republic proves that that is an utter fallacy. {Cheers.) Now, this same power of democracy is enlarging itself among ourselves, and there is reason why we should strive to have about it as clear ideas as we can attain. And if you will allow me, I will mention one or two ideas that seem useful to bear in our minds with reference to this theme. And first of all, I would say that we should never forget that to nations democracy is a necessity rather than a choice. {Cheers^ Some people seem to think that when they have succeeded in proving that democratic government, like all other human institu- tions, is not free from fault, they have done enough to put it out of court, and to leave the field open either to despotism or to an aristocratic oligarchy. But the simple answer to such criticism is that nations must resort to 14 Home Rule in America. democracy in order to protect themselves from the oppres- sions of despotisms and oligarchies. {Cheers.) Even if it were triumphantly proved that democracy is more faulty as a theoretical scheme than it has been ever yet proved to be, still the necessity for resorting to it would remain the same if nations are to have due protection for them- selves. In this view of the matter, democracy is rather a method of self-defence than a system of government ; and we all know that self-defence may often be clumsily enough performed ; but the sufficient answer to all fault-finding is that we must either do it so or perish. {Cheers.) If a man is attacked by an assassin or robber, it is very probable that his style of defending himself would not give complete satisfaction to a professional pugilist, or to a fencing-master, or musketry instructor ; but what is the poor man to do? {Cheers.) He has not sufficient time to gain a scientific training in the use of his fists, or his sword, or his firearm. The assailant's hand is upon his throat, and he must defend himself the best way he can, and leave scientific criticism to do its worst. {Cheers.) Just in the same way is it the case with nations. If despotisms and oligarchies have trampled upon the rights of nations in the past, as we know they have done, and if they are certain to trample upon them in the future, if they are given the chance, the only alternative left for the great masses of the people is to take the control of their affairs out of the hands of the despotisms and oligarchies, and manage them in the Mr. Wallace's Speech. 15 best way they can. (Cheers^ Therefore it is that I say that democracy, criticise it as you may, is a necessity with nations rather than a choice. {Cheers!) Nations must press forward to the reaUsation of the democratic ideal, under penalty of otherwise having to submit to a growing and grinding tyranny. {Cheers.) Then I will say further with respect to democracy, that it is not only a necessity, but that it is a safe necessity. There are many necessities that are far from safe. A man some- times may be under the necessity of falling from the brow of a precipice, and that is a fatal necessity. {Laughter.) But it is not so with the necessity of democracy. It is a safe necessity, and I say that it is so because there is con- nected with it the great — I had almost said the cardinal principle — of the liberal creed — namely, the principle of the trustworthiness of the people — {hear, hear) — the principle that they may be trusted on the great, broad considera- tions affecting the destinies and the happiness of nations. What do we mean by the trustworthiness of the people ? Well, it is a simple corollary that might be traced up to the comprehensive, proverbial truths, that two heads are better than one, and that the great soul of the world is just. {Cheers.) It means that while the individual may be, and too often is, foolish, or wicked, or false, the nation as a nation is wise, and good, and true. {Cheers.) Individuals may be knaves or fools, but no adult nation ever yet was, or could be, a knave or a fool. {Cheers.) Even if 1 6 Home Rule in America. we were not to speak of justice and of wisdom, even if we were to allow that mankind are governed solely by the comparatively base motive of mere self-interest, still the argument for democracy would hold, because if self-interest were the simple and sole motive, why the despotisms and oligarchies would necessarily look after only the interest of the few ; but if the ruling power is the whole — that is, the many — that is, the mass of the people, then even on the doctrine of self-interest the object of such government must be the interest of the whole, the interest of the many, the interest of the people, and that is the true end of all government. {Cheers^ Now, it is on this principle that there is founded the other and the co-ordinate doctrine of the Liberal creed, that nations ought only to be governed by their own con- sent. {Cheers^ The principle of that is that if the nation is not consenting to its own government then that govern- ment is condemned by the very fact that it is not consented to by those who are the wisest in the matter, and whose voice is entitled to be the most authoritative on the ques- tion. (Cheers.) All nations desire to be governed; they know what anarchy means, they know that it means social disorder — nay, social destruction; but they also know that there is such a thing as good government and bad government, and they are far better fitted than any stranger can be to say what is good government for them ; and, accordingly, wherever you find in past history, Mr. Wallace's Speech. i 7 or in the present, a nation, as a nation, persistently and con- tinuously refusing to be governed by a certain authority that desires to force — even it may be respectable enough laws — on them, you may draw the conclusion that that Government, for all purposes of successful administration, is in a false position, and that the sooner it retires and makes room for institutions and rulers selected by those people themselves the better will it be for that falsely placed Government, and for those over whom they have vainly attempted to rule, and for all those who are interested in the matter. (Cheers.) Then I make another remark in this connection before I offer my last observation and resign the position to the gentleman for whom it is, of course, rightfully intended. I ask you to consider whether it is not a necessity for democrats in this country to assert themselves more pronouncedly within the Liberal party. (Cheers.) What is the Liberal party ? The Liberal party is that party which, under an unwritten constitution of its own, sets before itself as the aim of its activities the greatest happiness of the greatest number — (cheers) — as opposed to that other party, which, in spite of sundry specious pretexts, seeks the greatest happiness of the smallest number, or, at all events, of a very small number. The Liberal party is the party that seeks to raise the down-trodden and oppressed everywhere to the level of their just rights — to protect the poor from the selfishness of the rich, and which, generally, takes the side of the weak against the tyranny of the strong. B 1 8 Home Rule in America. In the performance of that duty it has been the fate of the Liberal party to come mainly into conflict with that Ohgarchic party which in ancient days seized the land and all the good of it for itself, and, as I have said already, left the people to shift for themselves. {Hear, hear.) Vast and valuable have been the concessions which the Liberal party have wrung from the Oligarchic party in the days that are past, scrolled as they are in letters of out- standing glory upon the page of history. But still the aristocratic system is powerful, and largely powerful for evil. A party made up of a nucleus of the original and adopted oligarchy, with the huge accretion of its imitators, dependants, parasites, victims, and dupes, which still manages to keep a feudalistic hold upon the land ; a party which is still able to falsify and debauch a great nation's instincts of reverence and obedience, creating on the one side an irrational pride, morally ruinous to its possessor, and on the other a cringing servility equally debasing to its victim, through its ability to maintain possession of hereditary honour and hereditary legislative power ; a party which can still perpetuate the principle of religious aristocracy in a creed and worship endowed with a monopoly of State prestige and revenue, embittering social relations, and hindering the advancement of truth in its highest aspects, by discouraging and putting at a disadvantage all other contrasted and competing forms of moral and -religious propaganda ; a party which, among much else that might be named, can do all this, must be recognised as an army Mr. Wallace's Speech. 19 of wrong that still musters formidably on the traditional field of battle. {Cheers.) I do not know what may be the preponderating political sympathies of those who are now before me, but I think I am speaking the sentiments of some, and I trust I am at all events to be permitted to say for myself that I regard it as one of the great duties of the Liberal party in the future, while not neglecting the positive and constructive side of its activity, in procuring at convenient times whatever act of legislation may directly tend to the promotion of the happi- ness of the people — {cheers) — I say I regard it as a central duty of the Liberal party to carry on its ancient and traditional antagonism and conflict with the oligarchic remnant, until not one stone is left upon another of the edifice of aristocratic privilege, in whatever shape it appear, whether of civil or religious aristocracy, so that out of its ruins, and upon their site, there may be built up a sym- metrical system of institutions founded upon the principles of popular government, and adapted to the exigencies of popular wellbeing, because giving effect in their complete- ness and their perfection to the ideas of civil and religious equality. {Loud cheers.) Now, I ask your further indulgence, and the further in- dulgence of the lecturer, while I make one concluding ob- servation before I formally introduce him to your hearing, and that is, that the fierce opposition of the Tory party in our own time to Irish Home Rule is an encouragement to Home Rule in America. democrats — {hear, hear) — because it is a measure of the dread which the aristocratic party have of the growth of democratic power. {Loud cheers. ) There is one thing there can be no doubt about, and that is as to the fierceness of the opposition. The passing of the Crimes Act — (hisses) — when no demonstrable cause existed in the shape of exceptional circumstances, the proclamation of the National League just at the moment when the Irish Treasury was being depleted for the purpose of purchasing white gloves for the Irish judges — {laughter and prolonged cheers) — the illegal suppression of public meetings and of free speech, the apparent carelessness or indifference as to the shedding of the people's blood — {hear, hear) — and as to the danger of stirring up again the evil spirits of midnight combination and of moonlight outrage, the steady support given by self-styled Liberals, at any sacrifice whatever of most important Liberal principles, to the measures of a Govern- ment that was clearly and demonstrably enforcing a tyranny — (cheers) — because I say that every Liberal worth caUing a Liberal ought to be able to see that when a Government is forcing its authority on an unwilling people it is in no other position than that of usurpation and tyranny — (cheers) — I say all these things are sufficient evidences of the earnest- ness — I had almost said the sanguinary earnestness — of the opposition which the aristocratic party is showing in the way of seeking to quell the demand for Home Rule and the party which is the organ of that demand. (Cheers.) Mr. Wallace's Speech. Now I want to ask you for one moment what is the ex- planation of this fierce opposition ? It cannot be those pre- texts which the aristocratic party have put forward as the ground of their objection to Irish Home Rule, for these pre- texts — even the best of them — are transparently flimsy and shallow. Why, take even that bugbear of separation which is the chief among them. It is enough to ask, Would it be possible for Ireland to separate from us except with our own consent? In order to set up a separate nationality she would have to keep and pay for an army and a navy suffi- cient to give her a military standing against the other nation- alities — {cheers) — and more particularly against the neigh- bouring nationality of Great Britain — (cheers) — with a popu- lation seven times her own in number, and with wealth I suppose a hundred times her own. Ireland would make herself bankrupt in the attempt, and even then she would be helpless. {Cheers^ The thing to any mind that is not blinded by prejudice is obvious enough, and was put in a way that never has been met by the Irishmen's own Dean Swift, when he said that ten men in armour would always be a match for one man in his shirt. (Laughter and cheers.) Therefore, I say that these pretended reasons of the Tory party and of their recreant ?CiS\t^— (hooting — I submit these are not the true explanation of the matter, and that we have to seek deeper for it. I further submit that the true explanation is, that in this great Irish crisis the aristocratic party and their so-called Home Rule in America. Liberal allies have discerned a great uprising of the demo- cratic principle. The Irish question is merely a special phase of the great general democratic question — (cheers) — namely, "Shall the will of the people prevail, or shall it not? (Cheers}} Shall the consent of the nation be essential to its government, or shall that consent be crushed?" — {Cries of 'No.')— and it is just because the aristocratic party have seen instinctively that this is the essence of the question, and have felt that they were fight- ing a battle of self-defence, that they have been animated by the fierce opposition that has characterised them. {Cheers.) They feel that if democracy is victorious on so important a field as that of Home Rule in Ireland, it may afterwards be encouraged to march on to victories more domestic and more disastrous to them and theirs. {Cheers.) That being so, I say that we, who are demo- crats — we may not be all so here, but I am pretty sure there are some — {cheers)— z.i all events I know of one — {cheers) — we are, I say, encouraged by the state of things, because the very dread of our opponents shows their knc^wledge that there is a living power that they have to deal with in this matter, and that that living power is not a slight one. Only let us remember that in fighting our battle on these lines we do not fight it in a merely self-seeking spirit. I do not say that a man is not to abate injustice and unrighteousness simply because they happen to be illustrated in his own case, for he is bound Mr. Wallace's Speech. 23 to abate injustice and unrighteousness wherever they arc to be found. But I do say that it ennobles all effort when it is put forth not in the interest of self but in the interest of others, and every nature with the slenderest element of elevation in its composition will feel itself immeasurably strengthened by the consciousness of doing battle for those who require all the aid that can be put forth on their behalf. {Cheers.^ And accordingly, it is always a great advantage when we are able to say not merely that we will stand up for our rights, and beard the tyranny that would take them from us, but when we are further able to say we are fighting for humanity — (cheers) — for our children and for our children's children — (cheers) — that their lives may not be embittered by the wrongs that have embittered ours, that their homes may be brighter, their bread ampler, their whole lot better than our own ; we are fighting for our comrades and friends, that they may be sharers in the fruits of our victory ; we are fighting for the wronged and the oppressed to the uttermost ends of the earth, that the spectacle of our complete emancipation may inspire them with a faith in the possibility of freedom, and that the final blow which strikes down the remnant of that oppression against which our forefathers strove in the centuries that are gone may simultaneously strike a pang of weakness and fear into the hearts of those who are trampling upon human rights in dark places of the earth that are full of the habitations of cruelty, (Cheers^ 24 Home Rule in America. Mr. Carnegie, who was received with prolonged cheers, said — ?R. PRESIDENT, Ladies and Gentlemen,— I have first to thank the officers of the Junior Liberal Association for giving me the great privilege of standing before a vast audience of my fellow- countrymen here in the Second City of the Empire, in that city which, more than all other cities, has done much to draw closer the two branches of the great English- speaking race, my native and my adopted land. (Cheers.) The great ships which you are sending forth every year to ply to and fro across the Atlantic — are shuttles weaving a glorious web between the two nations. Already we have spelt out in the glorious pattern international arbitration, and there is yet to come, as we draw closer and closer together, eternal friendship and goodwill. The recent appointment of a Commission to settle the Fisheries dispute proves once more that never henceforth is a drop of blood of one branch of the race to be shed by the other branch. And, Sir, permit me, in speaking of that Fisheries Commission, to say that I for one, and I believe all Liberals and all British people, were rejoiced that a man like Mr. Chamberlain — {hisses and cheers, and a voice, ' He's a ruffian ') — should have found a position in which he can Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 25 do more good to his country than any which he could find at home. {Cheers.) It is a great work this upon which he has embarked. I know that the Fall Mall represents him as a Jonah thrown overboard to the fishes — (laughter) — but I trust that he too, like Jonah, will return firom the excursion — (laughter) — wholly uninjured, with increased reputation, and able to boast that he has done something which no other traveller has ever done. (Laughter.) When I accepted the invitation to deliver a political address before this audience, I stated that it would be un- becoming in me to enter into the quarrels — the temporary and passing quarrels — ^which, unfortunately, have existed in the Liberal party, but which, I am happy to say, between the date of my acceptance and the date of my appearance, have largely vanished into thin air. (Cheers.) The recent elections did not show much of a schism in the Liberal party — (hear, hear) — and therefore I approach the subject of Home Rule in America to-night, feeling that I in nowise become a party to the dissatisfactions and to the jealousies which have existed among you. For I tell you this, be he Liberal Gladstonian, be he Liberal Unionist, be he Con- servative, or be he Tory — (laughter) — I believe I have described all the vaxiaXions— (renewed laughter), — in the soul of every honest, and fair, and patriotic citizen of this great land there lies like a weight the conviction that whatever may come, the present condition of affairs in Ireland must cease. (Hear, hear, and cheers) You must 26 Home Rule in America. no longer disgrace the English name, and make us blush in America for the land of our fathers — (cheers) — the land that has been the pioneer of liberty. The mother of nations must no longer stand before the world confessing that at her own doors, in a part of her own empire, she is unable to found just laws which commend themselves to the public sentiment of the governed. {Cheers.) Home Rule is certain, and therefore I enter upon no disputed question when I venture to lay before you the phase of Home Rule which we have in America, hoping that when your bill is prepared you may find some hints there which may be of use to you in solving this great and pressing question. Now, gentlemen, it will be necessary for me to say a few words upon the American Constitution. What is it ? I will tell you upon what it is founded. It is founded upon your own Constitution, and it is largely the work of a Scotsman. (Cheers^ I appeal to any scholar here, to any man who has read the proceedings antecedent to the adoption of the Constitution. I ask you to read the Federalist, and you will find that the draft of the American Constitution sub- mitted by Alexander Hamilton — (cheers) — with very few amendments, was adopted, and is to-day that Constitution. {Cheers.) I do not think that will cause it to be less favour- ably considered before a Glasgow audience. {Cheers.) Well, the eulogies of that Constitution have been so great and so many recently, that I will not trouble you with quotations; but in the works of Matthew Arnold, Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 27 Froude, Freeman, Dicey, and last, but not least, Mac- kenzie, a Scotsman who has written a wonderful history of America — a Dundee man, I believe — and Sir Henry Mayne, you can read pages of eulogy which, as an American, my modesty will not permit me to repeat. I will, however, venture to quote from the leaders of your two parties, that you may see how they corroborate the views expressed by these writers. My Lord Salisbury — (hooting) — has said — 'The Ameri- cans have a supreme court which gives a stability to their institutions, for which we look here in vain ; the Americans have a Senate wonderful in its power and efficiency ; would that we could have such a second chamber here !' {Hear, hear) I will tell Lord Salisbury how he can have it. {Laughter and cheers.) There is no patent for its exclusive use — {laughter) — and there is only one way of getting any- thing good in a nation. The United States Senate springs from the people. {Cheers.) There is not the poison of hereditary privilege in its veins — {hear, hear) — and that is what makes it so powerful aod wonderful in its strength and efficiency ; and if my friend Lord Rosebery, when he brings in his bill to reform the House of Lords, which he has promised, can only persuade Lord Salisbury to agree to exclude the hereditary poison, why, then, you can get a Senate chamber equal to the American in strength and efficiency. {Cheers.) You cannot get it any other way, and unless this is conceded Lord Rosebery will find that his 2 8 Home Rule in America. only safety lies in taking the advice Hamlet gave to the players — 'Reform it altogether.' {Laughter and cheers.) Well, now, a greater man than Lord Salisbury — {cheers) — do not cheer, I am not going to give the name — {laughter and cheers) — but when I mentioned the name in Edinburgh, all the audience jumped to their feet and cheered, and I enjoyed it very much. As I said, a greater authority than Lord Salisbury, and one who has done a great deal more in improving Constitutions, has pronounced the American Con- stitution the most wonderful work ever struck off at one time by the brain and purpose of man. {Loud cheers, and a voice, ' Gladstone.') I do not know whether Mr. Gladstone, being a Scotsman — {great cheering) — may not be a little partial to the work of a Scotsman like Alexander Hamilton, but these are his words. {Cheers). The day after to-morrow there will assemble in the city of Philadelphia representatives from all parts of the United States, with the Judges of the Supreme Court and the President at their head, to celebrate the centenary of the adoption of the Constitution. {Cheers.) The Constitution, a hundred years ago, was adopted by a population of three millions which fringed the Atlantic coast. To-day it holds peaceful sway over the majority of the English-speaking race— more English-speaking people than all Great Britain and all her colonies, even were the latter doubled in population ; and although this branch of the British people has extended from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and southwards from the coast of Maine to the Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 29 Gulf of Mexico, they have not outrun the benefits or the protection of that Constitution. {Cheers^ Let me now describe that Constitution to you. The Government of the United States, under the Constitution, is divided into three departments — the legislative, the ex- ecutive, and the judicial. The Legislature consists of two Houses, as your own Constitution does — a House of Repre- sentatives, elected for two years by a direct vote of the people, and a Senate, composed of two senators from each of the thirty-eight States, elected for six years by the State Legislature, but so elected that every two years one-third of the entire body retires to the people to seek re-election and have the chance of being displaced by worthier servants. (Cheers^ Each of these representatives receives as a com- pensation for their services _;^iooo per annum. {Cheers) They sit from ten o'clock in the morning till four o'clock in the afternoon, and having paid for the services of these gentlemen the nation exacts regular attendance. (Cheers.) It exacts their abilities and attention, when these are fresh, and it would not tolerate for a moment 168 barristers, as in your present Parliament, who do all their work in the day-time and come to you to muddle your business at night. {Much laughter) I have sat a great deal in your House of Commons. It is largely a debating club for the display of vanity, and it is no longer a sober, thoughtful legislative Chamber. {Hear, hear.) It never will be as long as its members consider that they give you a gentlemanly 30 Home Rule in America. class that condescends — {a laugh) — to serve you in Parlia- ment. Your legislators are always your masters here, but in America they are our paid servants. {Cheers.) You know that celebrated story of a gentleman who lost a great deal of money by a false play at whist on the part of his partner. He scolded him, and the matter was referred to the leading expert of the Whist Club. The question was this — Could a man make such a stupid play as that which was described, and the decision of the referee was that he thought he might — after dinner. (Laughter and loud cheers?) That is one point not embraced in Home Rule — (laughter) — but I mention it incidentally. (Cheers.) Well, then, the power of the two Houses of Parliament is very much akin to your own in one respect. As far as the House of Representatives is concerned, they have the power of the purse, but the Senate of the United States is of equal power with the House. No Act becomes an Act without their approval. No treaty can be signed by the President, no appointment made of a petty postmaster, no appoint- ment of an Ambassador or Minister or Agent, without the consent and vote and approval of the most august Legis- lative Assembly in this world — the American Senate. There is where we hold our chief ruler. The President must carry with him that body of Senators. {Cheers.) We have our Executive in the hands of a President. We make our king every fijur years. (Loud and continued cheering.) I think I will repeat that — it seems to please you so much. (Laughter Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 31 and loud cheers.) We make our king every four years — {loud cheers) — and we pay him a tremendous salary. I suppose all you people would grudge it for a crowned head. We pay him ten thousand pounds per annum — (loud laughter and cheers) — and we have nothing to do with his brothers and his sisters and his cousins and his aunts. {Loud and continued cheering^ Why, I am afraid I have got into an American meeting. {Laughter, and cries of ' Repeat it,' and ' Say it again.') We make our king every four years. {Laughter and cheers^ We pay him ten thousand per annum, and we have nothing to do with his brothers and his sisters and his cousins and his aunts — (}oud cheers) — and at the end of four years, if we do not like him, we put him down and elect another one. My fellow-countrymen, I would like you to cast your eye over the list of American Presidents — {loud cheers) — and compare them for the last hundred years with certain individuals that you have been cursed with on your throne. (Cheers!) Compare them, man for man, and see where you will land. {Laughter.) This President nominates his Cabinet ; but, mark you, not a man is a member of his Cabinet until the Senate says, 'Approved.' He may dismiss them, but when he nominates another, the other man must go through that ordeal before he becomes a member of our Cabinet. {Hear, hear, and cheers?) The President is not only the first civil Magistrate ; he is the first military Magistrate. We bring the civil power right where we want the civil power to be — at the head ; and we 32 Home Rule in America. put the military power where a mihtary power ought always to be — at the foot. {Cheers^ The President of the United States is the Commander-in-Chief of the Army and of the Navy, and of the military forces of the States when he chooses to call them into service. This is no shadowy power. When General Grant was at the top of his fame — (cheers) — it was rumoured that he was about to conclude a convention with General Lee which touched upon the policy to be pursued, and I saw the telegram which Pre- sident Lincoln — {cheers) — wrote with his own hand — ' To Major-General Grant, near Richmond, Virginia, — You will hold no conventions with General Lee except for the capitu- lation of his army. (Cheers!) You will not confer, nor discuss, nor conclude any question of any political import whatever. (Cheers.) The President holds these questions in his own hands, and he will not submit them to any military conference whatever.' (Cheers?) That is the kind of power we give our President, and we hold him respon- sible for the exercise of that power — (cheers) — and at the end of four years he gives us an account of his steward- ship. At his call to-day seven millions of men capable of bearing arms, accustomed to bear arms, and only too ready to bear arms in defence of the Union, would stand forth. But two years from now that President would be one of the seven millions shouldering his musket in the ranks. (Loud cheers.) Now, then, our Cabinet does not appear in our House of Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 33 Congress. They make written communications. They answer all questions which either House requires, but they do not dehberate with the House, because the American people are most jealous of any interference between the Legislative and the Executive. Now, to regulate all the rights of these people the Supreme Court, the object of Lord Salisbury's admiration, has been created. It consists of nine Judges. They receive ;^2ooo a year each for their services, and the Chief- Justice of the United States receives ^100 more than his fellows. He passed through your country the year before last, the head of the American Government in one sense, because the Court is above the President, as it interprets the Acts of Congress, and is the arbiter of the community. He passed along unnoticed. The aristocracy and the Court paid no attention to the Chief Judge of the United States. That is very much to be wondered at, because Buffalo Bill had not then arrived. {Laughter.) But when your Chief- Justice visited America he was received as became a man in his position. The President of the United States received him, the cities received him, and he was everywhere entertained in a manner which, I trust, some future day, the Chief-Justice may experience when he visits this country when the democrats are in power. (Cheers^ This Supreme Court has a veto on all laws passed by the House, the Senate, and the President. It does not make a particle of difference if the House of Representatives pass c 34 Home Rule in America. a law, and if the Senate pass it, and if the President ap- proves it, any man can make an issue and appeal to the Supreme Court — 'Is that law constitutional?' If it is decided to be unconstitutional it is waste paper. {Cheers!) But great as are the powers which our Supreme Court possesses, remember the Supreme Court can start no issue. It can only decide issues which are brought before it, so that it is only when the law would work injustice or create popular discontent that the Supreme Court is appealed to at all. Now, then, having briefly described to you the three departments of the American Government, allow me to say that the Supreme Judges remain for life, subject to removal by the President and Cabinet for misbehaviour or inability to serve. Now then we come to the great question. How is it pos- sible that not only one nation but thirty-eight nations — thirty-eight States covering a Continent almost as big as Europe — how are their legislative and political matters managed ? In no way is that possible but by Home Rule. (Loud cheers^ Let me show you how deep down the principle of Home Rule goes and how far it extends, how wide-spread it is under this American system. The land of America is divided by Government surveyors, — and you will understand that I speak now not of the small Atlantic States which were divided before the Constitution was adopted, but of the great west and north-west in which the majority of the American people dwell. It was divided Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 35 into six miles square. These are called townships, and a few settlers make up a township. By and by they feel the want of roads, they feel the want of everything, and they decide to have a meeting. Now here is a record of a meeting of a similar character to that which has created thousands and thousands and thousands of councils. You will see it is most interesting. Just hsten to where Home Rule begins ; see its beginnings — its roots. It always reminds me of that beautiful poem of Ballantine's about the brook, when ' It dropped from a grey rock Upon a mossy stone. ' {Cheers.) Yes, away up there — that is where the Home Rule stream starts. {Cheers.) Here is what you find. Here is the township of Burlington in Calhoun County, Michigan. 'Organised in 1837, and held its first township meeting April 3d of that year, electing Justus Goodwin, supervisor; O. C. Freeman, town-clerk; Justus Goodwin, Gibesia Sanders, and Moses S. Gleason, justices of the peace ; Leon Haughtailing, constable and collector.' That is the German element you see coming into America. {Laughter.) ' Established six road districts ; voted 100 dollars to build a bridge across the St. Joseph river and 50 dollars for bridging Nottawa Creek ; voted 50 dollars for common schools.' Ah, gentlemen, that is a vote ! Fifty dollars ! The first meeting of a few stragglers in the west- ern wilderness, and the first thing they do is to vote fifty dollars for common schools to educate all their children 36 Home Rule in America. free of price. Now you are getting at the roots of democracy, gentlemen. {Cheers.) But that meeting did another thing. It voted five dollars for wolf-scalps. {Laughter.) That throws a great light upon the situation when the wolves were so numerous that they gave a ;^i premium for every scalp that was brought in. Well, now, that is a beautiful picture of Home Rule. There was no superior officer there. They made themselves and created themselves into a political community. It was universal suffrage — there was no privilege. I do not find anything about who Leon Haughtailing was, or where, or when he was born, or who was his grandfather, he was elected not because he was the richest man, but because his fellow- citizens thought him the best man at their command. That is the first meeting of the little township of six miles. By and by other settlers cpme into the neighbour- hood and form other squares. And they hold similar meetings, and they vote for common schools. In the course of time fifteen or twenty communities have been created, and they combine. They find that they have not good enough school accommodation for each township, and that they cannot have a court-house and all the pro- visions for government upon so small an area. And they say. Let fifteen or twenty of us townships combine and send representatives elected by universal suffrage in proportion to our populations. A Convention is created for the county, and they go forward and elect county officers in the manner Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 37 in which they elected their township officers, and they elect their judges. And I have sufficient faith in the democracy to say, ' Give me the judge elected by the people.' {Cheers^ No community in America who has ever tried the experi- ment has regretted it. I tell you the democracy is most interested in the purity of its judges. It is the poor man, the working man, who is interested in his judges. And as all humanity has its bias, I tell you frankly that your gentlemen have the prejudices of the gentleman class, and your newly made Baronets have the prejudices of the aristocracy worse than any old Baronets — (laughter) — and your newly made Lords are a disgrace to Mr. Gladstone — {laughter and cheers, and cries of ' No, no ') — then they are a disgrace to themselves. (Cheers.) Well the county goes forward — the second and larger circle of Home Rule. Observe now there is not what we might call a foreign element. There is no outside element, but all an outgrowth from the demo- cracy itself. There is no divine right about it. It is a healthy, grand, glorious growth of the body politic itself. {Hear, hear.) Very well, then, the county gets a little too small for their growing life. They want railroads, churches, grand halls. They want everything that a civilised people want. They want everything that is good, and they get everything that is good, so far as human nature can get perfection. Twenty or thirty of these counties conclude that they will make a State, and they elect officers by a convention as in the case of townships and counties, and 38 Home Rule in America. they meet and establish a capital, about the centre of the proposed State generally. They elect a Governor and a House of Representatives, and the State Legislature is composed of two Houses, one called the House of Repre- sentatives, and the other is called the State Senate. The word 'Congress' is never used, except when the National meeting at Washington is meant. The word ' Congress ' is sacred to the great central power, as I trust that in the great Home Rule Bill the word ' Parhament ' will be sacred to that great body which will meet at Westminster, and attend to international affairs. {Cheers^ Well now, gentle- men, the State is born in that way. Every State has its own Governor J it has its own militia, its own Courts, and its own Judges, and it manages its own taxation. It does everything that a State can do, everything that per- tains to the State itself. That is a very, very broad platform of Home Rule ; but the broader you make the Home Rule principle, always provided that it is subordinate to the national or federal principle, the better for the rulers, and the better for the people themselves. {Cheers^ Well, then, the several States, as you are aware, banded together and formed the Nation. There were thirteen of them originally. The States being, as you know, before the general Government, the people of America gave the general Government certain delegated powers, and a com- prehensive clause of the Constitution says that all powers not expressly delegated are retained by the States them- Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 39 selves. That is the principle of Home Rule in America. The National Government is the sun of our system, and round the Government the States revolve, each one on its own axis, some at one angle, some at another, all state communities governing their own affairs in the way that seems best to them. And therefore it is impossible you can ever have a State revolution in America, any more than it is possible for a man to turn and rend himself. The State Constitution is part and parcel of its people. It is their own work; they made it, and if they do not like it they can mend it. {Cheers.) Now, then, will you permit me, having sketched the American Constitution to you, to apply its provisions to the case of Home Rule at home. {Cheers.) And in doing so you will all clearly understand, which I need not tell you, that I do not represent anybody but myself I bind no- body. The Liberal party — Gladstonian — is not responsible for what I describe as the operations of the American Con- stitution ; and the Unionist is not responsible, and no Tory or Conservative may be alarmed upon the head of his responsibility for anything which I say. {Laughter and cheers.) Now then, if we were to deal with the Home Rule question— taking this great Constitution for our guide — I will mention in rotation four points, and just tell you how we would settle them — and we would settle them. When the democracy of America put its foot down it stays there. The first condition is the supremacy of the National 40 Home Rule in America. Parliament. I do not like the word Imperial. {Cheers.) You may have an empire soon enough. You have very nearly an Empress now, and when you get an Emperor you can use ' Imperial,' but I prefer ' National.' (Cheers.) Well it goes without saying that when two men ride a horse one must ride behind. {Laughter.) There must be no mistake about the powers in the general Government. I will not say whether the recent bill introduced was faulty or not in its expression of that power. Unionists may contend that it was, and they have the highest possible authority for thinking the words were unfortunately vague. But of this I have not the slightest doubt, that it never entered into the brain of any man that any assembly given to Ireland or Scotland would not have to bow before the National Assembly — the Parliament. {Cheers.) The American Con- stitution provides this : ' This Constitution, and the acts under it passed by the National Government, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, are the supreme laws of the land, anything in the State laws or State constitutions to the contrary notwithstanding.' And if I were called on to settle the Home Rule question, that is the language I would put into the new bill. {Cheers.) Mind you, that power being there, it has never to be exercised. It has only been exercised once in a hundred years upon an im portant issue, and that issue was one which no human con- stitution, nor all the human powers on earth, could have averted. The man or nation that tries to bind together in Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 41 harmonious development freedom and human slavery has attempted the impossible, and when the great democratic forces came face to face, in the development of that country, with the slave power, which disputed its rights, one or the other had to fall, and you know which one fell. {Cheers.) You might as well try to bind democracy and privilege. The two are antagonistic forces ; and I believe the Scotsman newspaper of the i6th August, in an editorial on the Northwich election, used the most significant words I have heard since I took up my residence among you. ' Demo- cracy means ' — I quote the Scotsman — ' Democracy means, and rightly means, that privilege shall cease.' {Cheers.) Well now, after what has been said about the supremacy of the National Government, I ask any Unionist here to consider in his mind to-night whether he has the shadow of a fear that that will not be provided for in the new bill. Has not Mr. Gladstone ssi\A—{hear, hear)— ' AW parlia- ments, all assemblies, with statutory powers are necessarily subordinate to their creator, and I have no objection to name the delegated powers.' Now, then, when he names the delegated powers, he will follow the American Con- stitution. The other point on which great stress is laid, and laid rightly in my opinion, and in the opinion of the American Constitution, is the question of the continued representation of Ireland in the National Assembly. Well, gentlemen, a great deal has been said in this controversy about American 42 Home Rule in America. opinion. I have asked hundreds of Americans — and you have got some intelligent Americans no doubt in Glasgow — ask their opinion yourselves. There is not an American living that will ^not answer this question as every one has answered to me — ' Would you agree that the State of Virginia should have a legislature of its own, and be absolved from the duty of sending representatives to the National Congress at Washington to deliberate equally with all other repre- sentatives, and hence be bound equally with the others for all its acts?' And the reply is, ' Never.' {Cheers.) And with the new Bill I would ask any Unionist — because I am most anxious to restore the harmony of the Liberal party — {cheers) — Gentlemen, you have a hard enough fight before you, you have many measures, the adoption of which lie deep at your heart, you need every vote and every influence at your command for this campaign — very well, I ask any Unionist to-night to consider whether he has the slightest doubt but that the representatives of Ireland and Scotland will continue to be sent to the Imperial Parliament at West- minster. I do not see how he can have a doubt. I had my doubts when the Bill was cabled across the Atlantic. I could see that point clearly myself, and I took prompt measures to point out to friends here what I thought was the weak point in that Bill. But, gentlemen, I thought I could do most good vifithin the party. I have known what Mr. Gladstone has already done. There is no man living can carry reforms as he can — {prolonged cheers) — and if his Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 43 life be spared, as he will — [cheers) — I am satisfied — I will not say I am satisfied, I know, because he has said it — that he will deal with this question without touching the question of Irish representation. {Cheers^ We come to the third point — Ulster. {Laughter.) Now I am going to apply the American Constitution to Ulster , — {laughter) — and I tell you it is not without force in Ulster or in any part of Ireland. They will not seek anything beyond what the Americans give their States. If they do, every son of an Irishman in America — {laughter) — and there are a million of such — and every American will denounce the demand as something which upon no consideration they themselves would ask, and which every well-wisher of Great Britain prays she never will give. {Cheers^ As to Ulster, speaking as an American Home Ruler, that is too trifling a subject to talk about among statesmen. {Hear, hear.) The province of Ulster is very nearly Nationalist, and, divided by the aggregate of the poll, it is Nationalist to-day. I reject with contempt and indignation the attempt, in this nineteenth century, to stir up sectarian jealousy. {Cheers.) You know, and I know, what Scot- land has done for civil and religious liberty. If there be any body of Protestant Irishmen who wish to keep them- selves apart and nurse those bitter hatreds, those feuds that give rise to disturbance of the peace — if they want to do that, I am against them — {cheers) — and if there be any body of Catholics that wish to nurture such feuds, and keep 44 Home Rule in America. themselves apart from their fellow-Protestant citizens, I am against them also. {Cheers.) There is no difficulty about Ulster. Whenever you give Ireland Home Rule you will stir up a patriotic flame. {Cheers.) And they will all be Irishmen first, and Ulster men and Tipperary men afterwards — {cheers) — and the presence of Catholics and Protestants meeting in an assembly labouring for the national good will soften all asperities and make them understand each other better than they have hitherto done. {Cheers.) The question of Ulster will settle itself. {Hear, hear.) Left to a plebiscite of the Ulster people, you will hardly find a man that will not say, 'Let us go with our country,' and I would not respect the man that did not say so, were he a hundred times a Protestant of the Protestants. {Laughter. ) That is not the Protestant religion. {Cheers.) It is founded on private judgment and free thought, and the Irish Protestants have much to learn yet as to the fundamental principles of the faith of which they would boldly stand forth as the main adherents. {Cheers.) I now come to the fourth point. You will notice I am following the four contentions of the Unionists. {Laughter.) Do not laugh at the Unionists. Let me tell you there were reasons for their contentions, much as I differ with them as to the mode which they took to enforce them. I think the Unionists within the councils of the Liberal party would have been much more powerful — I know the representa- tives of the Unionists in Parliament would have been more Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 45 powerful, if they had laboured within the lines of the party under the banner of the only possible chief — {cheers) — but the Unionists whom I have met and wrestled with have always told me, 'Mr. Gladstone is all wrong.' I will tell you a story in point. Henry Clay was the most popular man America had. Well, he voted against his constituents upon the Slavery question, which was the only burning question of the time, and he offered himself for re-election. There was not a ghost of a chance of his being returned to Washington any more than there is of any Unionist being returned to the next Parliament. {Cheers.) I do not think any Unionist will stand when next Parliament is elected. I hope all will be Unionists in the larger and proper sense. {Cheers.) Well, Henry Clay saw that there was no use in conducting his canvass if he stood up to defend what he had done, so he went before the farmers of Kentucky and made one speech all over the State, ' Now boys,' he said, ' you have all got good trusty rifles. Think of the game your rifle has brought down. Did your rifle ever miss fire. I have shot a good deal, and my rifle missed fire now and then. {Laughter.) Did you on that account throw it away, or did you pick it up and try it again ? ' There was no resisting such an appeal, and Clay was re-elected by the greatest majority he ever received. {Cheers.) Now, admitting all that the most conscientious or contentious Unionist has to say, I think if he has much of human nature in him, much of gratitude for past services, 46 Home Rule in America. much of admiration for the noblest political career, he will pick up that old rifle — Gladstone. {Cheers.) Just let the old man have another shot. {Laughter and cheers.) I will wager ten to one — (reiiewed laughter) — he will bring down the game. {Laughter and loud cheers!) I will tell you an- other thing. I know your public men pretty well, but I do not believe you have got a rifle in the whole army, in the whole State — with all due deference to Mr. Wallace — in the whole House of Parliament — I hope he will not consider this a personal reflection — you have not got a rifle that can bringdown this game like Mr. Gladstone. {Cheers.) Now, then, I come to the judicial question. We want to be thorough, the Tories say. We are not thorough when we oppress the people and thrust laws upon them which they do not want, we are only thorough when we go to the root of popular dissatisfaction and make our laws just. Now, the American States elect their own judges, who determine all issues between the citizens of the same State. A Pennsylvanian has the right to be tried by the Courts of Pennsylvania, and to have his case decided by his fellow- citizen — the judge whose character he knows and trusts. There is no appeal beyond the Supreme Court of Pennsyl- vania in an issue pertaining to Pennsylvania ; but under the National Constitution any issue between men of different States may be proceeded with in the Courts of the United States. The Supreme Court of the United States sits at Washington, but it has judges in each district of the country. Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 47 Sometimes one State will have one federal judge, sometimes two. Pennsylvania has two, one at Pittsburg and the other at Philadelphia, 350 miles apart. That is matter of arrangement, and you can there have an appeal to the United States Court. Apply that to Ireland. In the first place, Irish judges already exist, and they will be retained. ('No.') I think so, for the present. It is not likely a good judge would be dismissed. Therefore, I think the Irish Executive would take over the Irish judges. (A Voice — ' They are bad.') Then if they are bad, the Irish people won't take them. {Cheers^ It is z. prima facie case, that a judge is a good judge unless he can be proved bad. It will be for the Irish Executive to re-appoint or choose their own judges. What I want to point out to you is that if you pay regard to the lesson of Home Rule in America, you will allow the Irish Assembly to appoint Irish judges, and to determine Irish affairs ; and you will hold of course, through the delegated powers, the right in any issues of an international character, to appeal from these courts to the Imperial Power, such an appeal as every Scotchman has now to the judicial Lords of the House of Lords. {Cheers.) Now that would settle the judicial question; but if you are going to give Ireland Home Rule, and withhold from her or from Scotland, when she gets Home Rule, as I trust she soon will — (cheers) — the control of the highest function, and the very essential of all Government, namely, the right to execute justice and administer the laws among her 48 Home Rule in America. own citizens, you are going to give them a mockery. {Cheers!) You are going to play the part of Hamlet with Hamlet left out, and you will have the Irish question upon you again and again in worse forms than it is now. You must make the judicial power in Ireland respected in Ireland, and you cannot do that unless it derives its power from the Irish Government. I do not profess that the Liberal party has quite clearly sounded this note, but I trust the democracy will watch with clear eye the clause giving judiciary powers to Ireland. You cannot give Home Rule to Ireland if you take from the Govern- ment the power to enforce its decrees; you may as well bind the Government, Mazeppa-like, on a wild horse without whip, spur, rein, or bridle, and expect peace and good government and loyalty in Ireland, if you deny to the Irish Executive the highest of all political functions, the administration of law and the maintenance of peace and order. So says the American Constitution. {Cheers.) Now, I will touch upon one point — the land question. {Cheers^ Every State of the American Union has a right to make a kirk or a mill of its land if it pleases. {Laughter^ It is its own. If the soil of a nation is not the property of that nation, and if you are not going to allow Ireland to manage its own land, what are you going to allow it to manage? ( Cheers) The land question is at the foundation of every- thing in the State, and you find that the Land Bill is discarded— rightly so, and Mr. Gladstone has said that the Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 49 sands have run for the landlords. (Cheers^ That is too good to believe. ('No.') I doubt even Mr. Gladstone's power to make a bill as it ought to be in regard to land. And why, because in the Liberal councils you have lots of Irish landlords. Lord Hartington is a large Irish land- lord with a rental of ;!^3o,ooo a year. I know he is a sincere and honest man, but I know Burns says that — ' When self the wavering balance shakes, It's rarely richt adjusted.' (^Cheers.) No man should sit as a judge in his own cause, and in America no man who is directly interested by an Act of Legislature can constitutionally vote upon it. I am afraid you will have to buy out the landlords before you get done with them. The poor democracy, the toiling millions of Great Britain, will be mulcted in an enormous sum. {A voice — ' Not a penny,' and laughter.) I hope so — {cheers) — but remember everything is against you. Many members of Parliament are interested in land, and there is that tone in society which seems to say that property in land is different from property in everything else, because for hundreds of years the land has been held up by infamous laws to maintain a class of people who, if left to the free play competition of economic forces, would go down in the struggle for existence. {Cheers.) Well, what is the solution of the land question ? It is a very easy one. Let it alone ; let the Irish Executive settle D 50 Home Rule in America. with the Irish landlords. (Loud cheers.) The democracy has never been anything but generous in its acts, and it will be generous to the Irish landlords when upon their Executive is placed the responsibility of settling with them. If it decides to buy the land at all. (Laughter^ I am not in favour of the Executive of Ireland touching the land of Ireland, or of the Executive of Great Britain touching the land of Great Britain. Let me give a hint to the democracy. You are past the days of unearned increment, and upon the days of earned decrement, and any man foolish enough to counsel the people of Great Britain to take over the land to-day in a falling market may have his own interest at heart, but he cannot have yours. (Cheers^ It is said that the people of Ireland will not do justice to the land- lords. No, I hope not. (Laughter and cheers^ In my wildest and most vindictive moments I have never yet gone so far as to wish that the Irish landlords had justice. (Laughter^ No ; let us remember that mercy should in that case season justice. But they will get generous treat- ment, and the democracy of Great Britain can be absolved from all trouble with the land of Ireland if they strengthen Mr. Gladstone's hands, and tell him in unmistakable tones that there are a great many things the democracy of this country will do, and a great many things they will suffer ; but, as the Lord helps them, they will never be found on the side of Irish landlords as against Irish tenants, or pay one penny toward buying their land. (Cheers) Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 51 There may be some exceedingly patriotic men here who have been saying in their hearts — 'We do not want to Americanise our institutions.' Why not ? The Americans have taken from you everything they could lay their hands upon. {Laughter.) They have taken your Constitution and bettered it; they have taken your literature, your laws, they have taken your language, and if you would take from America everything that America has to give you, or everything which America ever will have to give you, tliere would remain a huge incalculable balance yet left in favour of the parent land. (Loud cheers.) Why should you not take things from your child if you know they are for your good ? But your own colony of Canada has practically the same Constitution as far as Home Rule is concerned. If there be any man who forgets that America is your own child, let him look to Canada— she is practically the same. Do you think that the English-speaking race throughout the world, with the saiiie language, the same traditions — because all Americans claim your traditions — with the same literature, with the same religion, do you think that it is in the power of man to prevent all English-speaking people ultimately having the same political institutions? {Cheers.) I will not venture to say what the political institutions of the English race may be in the future. It may be that the Scotsman is right, and that democracy means that privilege shall die, and it may be that all English-speaking people will range themselves together 52 Home Rule in America. upon a platform which develops the extremest rights of man, and the political equality of the citizen. That is possible. It may be possible, on the other hand, you may say, that the majority of the English-speaking race will turn its back upon this advanced political development, and seeking out some prince — I believe it will have to be a German prince, they are in the fashion — seeking out a prince, will go back and make him a perpetual king, and make his children kings hereafter, whether they be fools or idiots or not, and spend hundreds of thousands of their hard won earnings every year to support the entire brood in vulgar riot and ostentation ; and it may be that we will create another aristocracy, and that I shall so far forget myself and my hneage, as the direct descendant of weavers and shoemakers — glorious Radicals some of them have been, who have gone to jail just for attending such a meeting as was interrupted in Ireland the other day — it may be that I will forget that and parade before you as a baronet. (Laughter) Then you will say, ' We don't know how we will treat Mr. Carnegie coming to visit us ; he is not a nobleman, and he has ceased to be a gentleman.' (Laughter.) But whatever be the system of political institutions adopted in the future — you may have it either way — one point I venture to stand by, and that is that the English-speaking race throughout the world is to have the same institutions. (Loud cheers) If you can adopt some of the provisions of the American Constitution Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 53 for this emergency, you will have hastened by so much the day when your institutions shall be the same as the institu- tions of the English-speaking race. How long will it take after that assimilation is perfected before we have a Federal Council that will for ever render it impossible that the blood of English-speaking man can be shed by English-speaking man. {Loud cheers.) Where lies your greatest hopes that your own race, the dominant power of the world, shall co- alesce and form a union against which nothing on earth shall stand? (Loud cheers.) In the assimilation of your institutions. There lies the point. And where is the hope of that great day which the poet sings of, ' When the drum shall beat no longer, when the battle-flags are furl'd, In the Parliament of man, the Federation of the world ? ' (Cheers.) It lies in that great beneficent principle of Home Rule — Home Rule for each of the divisions, with a central authority over all to keep them in order — (cheers) — and in that congregation of English-speaking people, in that future Parliament — I know not how many divisions, I know not what their size or number, I know not their positions — ^but I know the position of one power is fixed, immovable, perpetual, and secure — that of this glorious little island. There may be many children clustering around her in that Parliament of man ; there can only be one mother. (Loud cheers.) I say cursed be the arm and withered the tongue of any man, wherever found, who would strive to keep 54 Home Rule in America. apart, by word or by deed, those children from that mother. {Cheers.) I thank you for the kind manner in which you have received and Hstened to me, and I shall, before I sit down, just say that I consider myself remarkably fortun- ate in having for Chairman the gentleman who so kindly in- troduced me. His masterly exposition of democracy is something which will not pass away with the hour. (Loud and continued cheering, amid which Mr. Carnegie resumed his seat, his address having lasted about an hour and a half.) THE Chairman — The next part of the business is the questioning by the audience. Mr. Carnegie has given all the information to you that occurred to him at the time, but he is willing to give more upon being interrogated. Those who have questions to ask will be kind enough to send them up here according to the directions which, I under- stand, were given in tl^e advertisement. (Cries of 'Yfe. are quite satisfied,' and calls of ' Gladstone ' and ' Macrae.') TV yr R. Carnegie said — I have been asked to make an ■L * -I explanation. A gentleman says that he received the impression that I had stated that the American army con- sisted of seven millions of men. ( Cries of ' No.') Allow me to say that every man within a certain age is liable to be called upon to maintain the law, and I had three partners shouldering muskets at the riot at Pittsburg. Perhaps a story will best illustrate this point. A gentleman dining with a Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 55 party in London asked my wife what was the uniform of the regular soldier of the United States. She thought a while, and said — ' Really I don't think I ever saw a regular soldier in the United States.' {Laughter.) She was born and reared in New York city. The army of the United States consists of 25,000 men. Not so many as under the management of your Conservative party are required to keep peace and order in poor little Ireland. {Loud cheers.) THE Chairman — One gentleman (Mr. James Grandi- son, 394 Crown Street) has sent me up three ques- tions. The first is — ' Do you think it consistent with true freedom that an American citizen should be debarred from purchasing a vessel built in this country to be used as a trader sailing under the American flag; that the captain must be an American, and that the crew must be composed of two-thirds of American born or naturalised citizens ? ' {Laughter}) MR. Carnegie — My answer to that gentleman is that I feel exceedingly flattered by his question. It impUes that he will be exceedingly glad to have me appear before you some other evening to discuss an entirely different question. {Laughter.) I cannot take up the time of the audience brought together to hear me upon one subject by discussing a subject which it would be a fraud for me to inflict upon them when they have paid for their seats. {Laughter and cheers^ 56 Home Rule in America. THE Chairman — The second question is — ' Upon what ground of reasoning can you support two Houses in your Legislature?' (A Voice — 'He has done that,' and cheers.) ■j\ /TR- Carnegie — Well, it seems so obvious to me that I -^™-'- do not know how to apply my reason to such a question. I have stated that the American Constitution was based upon the British Constitution, which has two Houses. Let me now say that I do not believe that true freedom or constitutional government is best served by a power which is liable to be swayed to and fro every moment by the first gust of popular opinion. (Cheers.) The first voice of an excited people may not be right, but the second voice, I believe, is indeed the highest voice, and in the American Constitution it takes two years to change the Senate. For any great constitutional reform it is better to wait two years. I think you would all compromise to-morrow if you could get your reforms in two years. {Laughter!) One-third of the Senate going out every two years keeps it in touch with the constituency, so that we have no trouble in getting what- ever people want. Another great ofSce of the Senate is this — we could not trust all power to the Executive. We need a second Chamber to confer with it, to discuss treaties, to engage in alliances, and the Senate is a most useful body for this purpose. One point more. War can only be declared by the Republic in several stages. First, Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 57 arbitration must be offered to an opponent. The political platforms of both parties for as long as I can remember have had planks requiring all international difficulties first to be submitted to arbitration. If our opponent declines, the House of Representatives in solemn session must discuss with open doors all the reasons, and every representative can give his reasons before he votes for that terrible result — the drawing of the sword. But that is not enough. Then it goes to the Senate, and it must approve. Even that is not enough. The President and Cabinet must approve, so that before the Republic can draw the sword you have arbitration offered, you have the action of the House of Representatives, the action of the Senate, and the action of the Executive. I leave the democracy to ponder how many wars you would escape — how many times you would blunder as you did in Egypt if the question was to be settled by the vote of both your Houses of Parlia- ment after full discussion. {Cheers.) THE Chairman was about to read another question, when he was interrupted by cries of 'Name, name.' Continuing, he said — It is only by the permission of the meet- ing that those questions can be put. Do you want more questions? (Cries of ' No.') That settles it. {Loud cheers.) I have now to call upon the Rev. David Macrae. {Cheers.) THE Rev. David Macrae, who was most cordially received, said — There are a great number of Home S8 Home Rule in America. Rulers not referred to to-night who arewaiting for Home Rule, and it is not the time for a speech in case there may be war. (Laughter and cheers}) But I am sure none of us would like to leave this hall without returning our warmest thanks to Mr. Carnegie for his singularly able lecture to-night. ( Cheers.) It is an educative lecture. We want this thing well thrashed out, and I believe had the question been dis- cussed more carefully and fully before it was brought into Parliament we would have seen less discussion than we have had. {Cheers.) Meantime, during the last two years, there has been a marvellous education of the public mind, and the lecture to-night will materially help our views on this great and important question. {Cheers.) We need Home Rule, Sir, we need it for Ireland and we want it for Scotland. {Prolonged cheers.) The tide is steadily rising for Home Rule and the vast reforms which Home Rule involve, including, I hope, a very considerable reform of the House of Lords. {Hear, hear.) I sometimes think reform is foreshadowed in one of the parables of Scripture, where it is said that if a tree does not produce any fruit, then ' Cut it down, why cumbereth it the ground ? ' {Laugh- ter.) I dare say if we had the House of Lords elected as the American Senate is we should have our main difficulty removed. I wish you to thank Mr. Carnegie for his lecture, and to express the great pleasure we have had in seeing him to-night. We honour him as a man who has been the architect of his own fortune, and is not ashamed Mr. Carnegie's Speech. 59 of his origin, which is the origin generally of the noblest and best of our people. (Cheers.) We honour him as a man who has been faithful and conscientious in his opinions, and who has the courage of his opinions and is not ashamed to express them wherever he goes. He might put some of his opinions in his pocket if he wanted a title, but he is a more honoured man than a titled head would be — ' A prince can mak a belted knight, A marquis, duke, and a' that ; But an honest man 's aboon his might, Guid faith, he mauna fa' that ! ' (Cheers^ He is a true Scotsman, and we rejoice to see that all his experience in America has not taken away his love for the old country and the glorious old nationality of which we boast. We honour him also as the author of a book, Triumphant Democracy. (Loud cheers!) That book is still incomplete, and we hope that the day may still come when another volume will be called for entitled ' Democracy Triumphant in Great Britain and Ireland.' (Loud cheers^ And now, I am sure, before returning him our thanks you will join with me in hoping that the great nation he repre- sents as well as our own — that that great American nation, may with the British nation unite more and more in striving to solve the great problems of religious and civil liberty, and join more earnestly together than in the past in hastening that day ' When man to man, the warld o'er, Shall brithers be for a' that,'— 6o Home Rule in America. the day when there shall be ' peace on earth and goodwill amongst men.' {Loud cheers.) TV /TR. Carnegie in reply said, — I thank you exceedingly ■^^ ■*- for the vote you have just passed. This is my first appearance before my fellow-countrymen irt Glasgow, but I hope it will not be the last. ( Cheers. ) I have a pleasant duty to perform, and I believe this brings the proceedings to a close. I wish you all to vote for a proposition I am about to make, and that is that we accord to Mr. Wallace a hearty and enthusiastic vote of thanks for the able and instructive manner in which he has presided over us. {Cheers.) THE Chairman said, — I have to thank you for the compliment you have paid me, and to say I am more than repaid by the honour and pleasure of having been present to-night. I may say that as one of the unfortunate 1 68 barristers who have done so much mischief in the House of Commons — {laughter) — I hope that, as doubtless Mr. Carnegie in the sincerity of his heart moved this vote of thanks, he will think that by my usefulness here I have in some degree atoned for my uselessness there. {Laughter and cheers}) As the meeting dispersed Mr. Robert K. Habbick called for ' Three cheers for Mrs. Carnegie,' which were heartily given.