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Cornell University Library 
 JX 1783.W34 
 
 The diplomatic service; an abstract ani 
 
 3 1924 005 216 811 
 
The original of tliis bool< is in 
 tlie Cornell University Library. 
 
 There are no known copyright restrictions in 
 the United States on the use of the text. 
 
 http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924005216811 
 
THE 
 
 Wf4 
 
 DIPLOMATIC SEMIGE 
 
 ^a*=. 
 
 iN IbsTIaCT and examination of EVIDENCE 
 
 TAKEN ' BY -^HE %ELECT COMHHEE OE 
 
 THE HOUSE OF COMMONS IN 1870. 
 
 By R. G. WATSON, 
 
 ■W^'ECm'ETAJi.Y; OF LEGAfjON. 
 
 OMJU^ 
 
 (Lwit* ^' 
 
 LONDON: 
 JOHN CAMDEN HOTTEN, 74>, iftCCADILLY.; 
 '^ ' ^ •:£:■ 1871. r'-f 
 
 Price Two ShiMngs and 
 
 me. 
 
<^^ 
 
 <sa^t-«/" 
 
THE 
 
 DIPLOMATIC SERVICE. 
 
THE 
 
 DIPLOMATIC SERVICE; 
 
 AN ABSTEAOT AND EXAMINATION OF EVIDENCE 
 
 TAKEN BY THE SELECT COMMITTEE OF 
 
 .1 I- 1 
 
 THE HOUSE OF COMMONS IN 1870; |, f(v,\ 
 
 Bt R. G. WATSON, 
 
 SECEETAET OF LEGATION. 
 
 LONDON: 
 
 JOHN CAMDEN HOTTEN, 74., PICCADILLY. 
 
 1871. 
 
 5i 
 
THE DIPLOMATIC SERVICE. 
 
 In anticipation of the appointment of a Select 
 Committee of the House of Commons to inquire into the 
 condition of the diplomatic service, a pamphlet was last 
 year submitted to the public, giving a sketch of English 
 diplomacy ; the immediate demand for a second edition 
 of the small work showed that its subject was of interest 
 sufficient to justify the writer in his attempt. Since then 
 a whole flood of light has been let in upon the scene^ but 
 as comparatively few persons have time to read through 
 a Blue Book of five hundred and thirty-seven pages, a 
 short summary and criticism of the evidence presented 
 to the House of Commons may, perhaps, not be super- 
 fluous. 
 
 The following abstract will give the principal por- 
 tions of the evidence taken, in the words of those exa- 
 mined, but necessarily omitting all observations further 
 than the real sense of the answers given to the questions 
 put by the members of the Select Committee. The 
 abstract will only contain the evidence bearing upon 
 the Diplomatic Service and on the working of the 
 Foreign Office : — 
 
 Eight Hon. Edmund Hammond. 
 
 39. Do you receive reports from the chiefs of the missions as to the 
 conduct of the subordinate members ? — No, I should object to that. 
 
 40. Why ? — Because I think that it would be likely to produce heart- 
 burning, and suspicion, and discontent in a mission, if it was known that 
 these confidential reports were sent in. Those confidential reports have, I 
 believe, been resorted to in some branches of the public service, but I 
 should be sorry to import that system into our service, where the men are 
 few in number, and where in each mission a feeling of distrust might 
 cause an unpleasantness between the chief of the mission and his sub- 
 
ordinates, and might not render the relations as comfortable as they ought 
 to be. . , 
 
 41. I have always wished to see the missions conducted on the same 
 principle as that upon which we conduct the Foreign Office, namely, 
 perfect confidence, perfect goodwill, and no suspicion. We find that 
 system work admirably iii the office. More work is done in the Foreign 
 Office than people will give it credit for, because the men there work 
 with a will, and with an esprit de corps, and there is no heart-burning 
 among them. 
 
 42*. You would debar yourself from personal knowledge of the 
 character of the gentlemen in a foreign mission by having no communi- 
 cation with the chiefs ? — We conclude that if a minister is dissatisfied with 
 his subordinate, we shall hear of it. Generally speaking, we know pretty 
 well the character of the men without asking for reports. From the way 
 in which the members of the diplomatic body are thrown into connection 
 with the members of the Foreign Offic,e, we know pretty well what the 
 character of a man is. 
 
 142. Having been so long in the Foreign Office, do you not consider 
 that the service is really blocked up ? — I cannot deny it. 
 
 144. — Have you any suggestion which you can make to the Committee 
 to remedy this state of things, so as to make the service more desirable ? — 
 No ; if the Committee would recommend that the service should be made 
 more of a scale service, I should be very glad ; by that I mean, that after 
 a certain number of years' service salaries should be increased. 
 
 145. It is now utterly impossible for a man of moderate means to go 
 into the diplomatic service ; at least it is the height of imprudence to do 
 so. The judgment which I have formed is that no father would act 
 prudently in putting his sou into the diplomatic profession, unless he was 
 prepared to allow him £500 a year. 
 
 148. iV/r. Cameron.'] Do you think that itwould be posMble, without injury 
 to the public service, to employ in place of the regular secretaries and 
 attaches, clerks at a much lower salary to do routine work ? — I think that 
 such a principle would be utterly ruinous ; in tiie first place it would not 
 be economical, because if you send an Englishman to any foreign country 
 as a copying clerk, you would have to give him much more than 160i. a 
 year. You now get your attache for nothing, and your third secretary for 
 150Z. a year. Nothing is so destructive to the harmony of an office, and 
 still more so in the limited sphere of a mission, as to have a difference 
 between the social classes of men. As every person likes to get the work 
 off his own shoulders, those people would be employed on other than the 
 work for which they were engaged. That would be very inconvenient, 
 considering the character of a great part of the business which is carried 
 on in a mission. Then you require a certain staff to meet the pressure of 
 confidential business. The pressure perhaps does not extend over more 
 than two or three days in the week, and unless persons also had the current 
 business and routine business to occupy their time when not engaged in 
 confidential business, they would be in idleness. Now, I do not think 
 that it is good for any public servant to have three or nearly four days 
 idle in the week. There is no ambassador who is the worse for routine 
 training ; in fact no ambassador can get his work properly done unless he 
 knows how it should be done, and he cau only acquire that knowledge by 
 having worked through all the details. It would be destructive to the 
 Foreign Office to import into it a different class of clerks. At the Foreign 
 Office and at the embassies you must be ready with persons, whether 
 they be secretaries or clerks, to meet any pressure of confidential business. 
 
165. The absence of any diplomatic representative at tte Saxon Court, 
 on the part of England alone, of all the Great Powers, was painfully felt 
 by the JRoyal Family of Saxony, who looked upon it as an indication of 
 indifference to its fate. Besides this, the large British colony at Dresden 
 felt it to be a great hardship to be deprived altogether of a representative, 
 and to be forced to repair to the consular office at Leipsic for various acta 
 of formal assistance. On all these grounds it was determined to place a 
 diplomatic agent of the lowest rank at Dresden, whose allowances amount 
 to 950?. a year. 
 
 166. Have you prepared a paper as to Darmstadt? — Yes. The near 
 vicinity of Darmstadt to the Prussian frontier, and its territorial sovereignty 
 over one of the most important fortresses on the Rhine, now occupied by 
 a Prussian garrison, invest it with a certain degree of political importance 
 not attaching to Dresden or Coburg. 
 
 167. I have no hesitation in saying that the political interests of the 
 country are benefited by the presence of a Minister at Stuttgardt. In 
 former times there was a mission established at Frankfort, which was the 
 seat of the Germanic Confederation, where all the members of the Ger- 
 manic body were represented ; and therefore through that mission we had 
 the means of ascertaining pretty correctly the feelings of the different 
 courts of Germany specifically as regarded German affairs. That mission 
 is abolished; but I think that any person who considers the state of 
 Germany, and what hinges on Germany, would come to the conclusion 
 that it is not unimportant for the British Government to have full ac- 
 quaintance with everything which goes on in those German courts, which 
 are still unincorporated with Prussia. I think that the amalgamation 
 of those missions with the other larger South German Mission — namely, 
 Bavaria — would not be expedient. A Minister going from one court to 
 another may be looked upon with a certain degree of suspicion. In one 
 particular instance the certainty that war was about to begin was first 
 obtained at a small German court. 
 
 169. Prussia would not look with jealousy upon a Minister at Dresden 
 as interfering with the court at Berlin? — Prussia herself maintains a 
 diplomatic mission in Saxony. 
 
 191. Supposing that the appointments were thrown open to competi- 
 tion at the Universities, would you not be just as likely as under the 
 present system to get men of great powers of observation, and with 
 agreeable manners, and quickness of intellect, which you stated in your 
 examination before the Committee of 1861 to be the chief qualifications 
 required for the diplomatic service? — The answer to that question is, 
 Can a competitive examination determine anything but the educational 
 qualifications of a man ? I believe that it cannot. 
 
 219. I think that some South American missions ought to be raised in 
 character. 
 
 221. Could not attaches be sent there without very much increasing 
 the expenses ? — I should be very glad, as a relief to the diplomatic service, 
 that that should be done. 
 
 225. Do you see any objection to employing junior diplomatic officers 
 instead of consuls in inland places, such as Erzeroum and Warsaw ? — As 
 regards Warsaw, a junior diplomatic officer would not do for it. As a 
 rule, of course there is no objection to making a diplomatic officer consul 
 at any place, but Warsaw is rather a pnlitical place. 
 
 226. We might fill up vacancies, as quasi political appointments, in 
 countries like Servia and the Principalities, and Tunis, and Egypt, by 
 
8 
 
 » 
 
 members of the diplomatic profession ; but at the same time, perhaps, the 
 doing so would be disheartening to the members of the consular profession, 
 as they very often look forward to such appointments as the reward of 
 long services. 
 
 '/iO. You would say, that our relations with Persia are chiefly im- 
 portant with respect to India ? — ^They are, in some respects, important as 
 regards India ; but Persia has other neighbours besides our Indian Empire, 
 and if any difficulty arose with those other neighbours, it would concern 
 the empire at large, and must come under the coguizauce of the office 
 which deals with countries bordering on Persia. It is a mistake to look 
 Upon Persia only from an Indian point of view. Though the ground stated, 
 in 1858, for remitting the charge of the Persian Mission to the India Office, 
 the Government of India being then directly vested in the Crown, namely, 
 that every question which came under discussion between this country and 
 Persia concerned more or less the British Government in India, was so far 
 correct ; yet account was not taken of the fact, that Persia, from its con- 
 tiguity to Turkey and Russia, came, as far as British interests were gene- 
 rally concerned, within the dominion of Imperial policy; and if the in- 
 dependence of Persia were placed in jeopardy by her northern or western 
 neighbours, the representations to be made, and the good offices to be 
 exerted, on behalf of Persia, could only emanate from the Imperial Govern- 
 ment. Within one year after the transfer of the Persian Mission to the 
 India Office, the mission was re-transferred to the Foreign Office, on the 
 ground that there were at the Persian Court representatives of France, 
 Kussia, and Turkey, and that the matters treated of by Her Majesty's 
 Minister at Teheran were necessarily connected with the relations between 
 England and those three Powers ; and that it was necessary that the 
 Secretary of State, who had to convey instructions to the British Minister 
 at Teheran, should be intimately acquainted with all that was passing, on 
 Eastern affairs, between Her Majesty's Government and the French, 
 Russian, and Persian Governments. The same reason exists, if possible, 
 in still greater force at the present time. 
 
 251. Mr. Richard Shaw.'] I understood you to express an opinion. in 
 favour of keeping the diplomatic and consular appointments separate and 
 distinct. 
 
 252. The services are very distinct ; the training for the consular service 
 is not calculated for diplomacy. Before the former Committee on the con- 
 sular service, I said that I thought that it would be very undesirable to 
 encourage consuls to look to advancement in the political branch of the 
 service, because it would have a tendency to distract their attention from 
 their proper consular duties ; there was no objection to importing occa- 
 sionally an agent into the diplomatic service from the consular service, or 
 from the consular service into the diplomatic service, but it was thought 
 that, generally speaking, it was better to keep the services distinct ; the 
 advantage would be largely in favour of not making diplomatic advance- 
 ment a thing to be sought for by consuls. 
 
 256. Is any person of ordinary intelligence fitted for the duties of a 
 consul? — I presume so ; of course the higher class of intellect which a man 
 may have the better ; but the duties of the consular office do not require 
 high intellect. 
 
 303. Mr. Kylands."] Do you think that the public are likely to remain 
 satisfied with a system which restricts appointments in an important branch 
 of the public service to persons of family connections or interest,- or in 
 possession of wealth '? — I can only answer that question by another. Are 
 the public prepared to pay the expense of another system ? 
 
 316. Are secretaries required to be regular in their attendance at the 
 
9 
 
 legations, and punctual in the performance of duty ? — ^There is a rule laid 
 down on the subject by the Foreign Office, but it depends upon the heads 
 of missions whether they enforce that rule ; I should be sorry to have a 
 daily attendance book sent from each mission every year among their other 
 returns ; we do not require such a thing at the Foreign Office ; in the 
 Foreign Office (and the remark applies to our missions abroad) the junior 
 members are liable to be called upon at all hours, not only in the day, but 
 in the night ; and therefore, if you tax those gentlemen in that way, you 
 must not lay down or enforce any very stringent rules, because if your rule 
 as to attendance is stringent, the attache has a right to require that it 
 should act both ways. 
 
 319. Would it not be better in your opinion to have only paid 
 officials, and to see that the public got sufficient work in return for the 
 salary? — To the latter part of your question I would answer that, 
 salary or no salary, you have the work most efficiently performed 
 without reference to the question of no pay or any amount of pay. I 
 should be very sorry to present to the House of Commons an estimate to 
 cover the really necessary and indispensable expenditure of the junior 
 members of our service. They are of no use to you unless they can move 
 in the first circles of society. It is there that a great deal of the current 
 information which it is desirable for the Government to obtain is picked 
 up • and they must make friends with people to obtain it, and also with 
 the diplomatic body. Then, too, you must remember that foreign Govern- 
 ments would not be guided by our precedent if we were to put a different 
 class of men into our missions ; yet if we had a different class of men in 
 our missions that class of men could not associate on equal terms with the 
 members of other foreign legations ; they would be in a most mortifying 
 position, and one in which I do not think any person would wish to see 
 them placed. 
 
 336. Mr. Ward expresses the opinion that it would be desirable to 
 apply to the diplomatic service the system of open competition ; do you 
 agree with that? — I entirely disagree, and everybody else who has any- 
 thing to do with the diplomatic service would entirely disagree with it. 
 
 351. I wish to ask you whether, in your opinion, there might not be 
 great advantage in your being able to entrust special duties to clerks of 
 tried efficiency and experience, by sending them to foreign legations when 
 any emergency arose, or by bringing secretaries from abroad when they 
 might be more useful at home ? — There is nothing to prevent it now ; I 
 believe that most of our clerks, of a certain standing, have at one time or 
 other been employed in foreign missions. 
 
 353. Lord Cowley states that he is an advocate for the complete amal- 
 gamation of the Foreign Office with the diplomatic service? — I cannot 
 consent to sacrifice the interests of the Foreign Office to those of the diplo- 
 matic service. It would be absolute ruin to the Foreign Office to encourage 
 or allow our senior clerks, as a general rule, to leave us, in order to go 
 abroad and be exchanged for people who have not had the training which 
 we in the Foreign Office have had. 
 
 421. Three first-class missions have been raised into embassies since 
 1861, Russia, Prussia, and Austria ; can you give any reasons to justify 
 that change? — I think that I can give the Committee very sufficient 
 reasons for it. No complications can arise among foreign nations 
 which do not more or less affect English interests. Our material and 
 industrial interests require that foreign markets should not be closed 
 to us, as they might be, if such complications were not timely dealt 
 with. Our trade alone with foreign countries, not to mention the 
 colonial trade with them, amounts to about 500,000,0002. a year, and the 
 
10 
 
 tonnage of our shipping, entered and cleared, engaged in it, amounts to 
 above 22,000,000 tons. It would therefore be a short-sighted and unwise 
 economy to deprive ourselves, by the suppression of our embassies at the 
 great courts, of the means which their maintenance provides for exerting 
 in the interest of peace a salutary influence in the politics of Europe. 
 At courts where other Great Powers maintain ambassadors, Great 
 Britain, if she were to reduce her embassies to missions, would 
 voluntarily accept a lower place, and would be treated accordingly. 
 As regards the expenditure for the diplomatic service of this country, I 
 desire to point out to the Committee that since the year 1843, when the 
 salaries and allowances and pensions of the diplomatic body as then 
 maintained were first brought within the limit declared by the Act of 
 Parliament of 1832 to be sufficient for them — namely, 180,000Z. a year — 
 the expenditure on those accounts has never been exceeded, but has, on 
 the contrary, generally fallen considerably short of the appointed sum ; 
 though in the period that has elapsed since the year 1843 — ^namely, 26 
 years — the expenditure for every other branch of the public service has 
 enormously increased ; and the successive Secretaries of State for Foreign 
 Affairs, so far from being justly obnoxious to the charge of extravagance 
 for diplomatic expenditure which has been imputed to them, have a right 
 to claim credit for having so administered the fund entrusted by Parliament 
 to the Crown in order to provide for it, as to have met the charge without 
 exceeding the allotted provision, notwithstanding the great increase in the 
 cost of living abroad, amounting, as the Committee will see, on examining 
 the volume that I have laid before them, in some instances to 25, 50, or 
 even considerably more per cent., as stated by unbiassed and independent 
 testimony, which has taken place during the period, and which has 
 rendered it impossible in most, if not in all cases, for our diplomatic 
 servants of whatever rank to provide for their current and necessary 
 expenditure without largely drawing on their private means. 
 
 453. Leaving out of consideration the question whether the rank of an 
 ambassador leads directly to expenditure, do you not consider that the 
 salaries attached to our principal missions are too high? — They are 
 perfectly inadequate. 
 
 4V5. The good feeling subsisting between this country and foreign 
 states is kept up in no small measure by the good feeUng subsisting between 
 the representatives of the British nation there, and the influential people in 
 the country. 
 
 489. You are aware that this costly system of representation at foreign 
 courts is not adopted by the American ministers ? — Simply, I believe, 
 because they have not the means of doing so ; I may state that I was 
 reminded of one American minister in this country to whom it was so 
 painful to be vxnprovided with the means of receiving- people at his table, 
 that he absolutely refused to go into society at all. Now that is not a 
 proper position for any foreign minister to be placed in. 
 
 499. England, I believe, at this present time, is cheaper than any 
 country abroad, because we have such commercial facilities. Our com- 
 mercial system has opened our ports to all the necessaries and luxuries of 
 life, and all naturally come to this as the best market. 
 
 500. You are quite aware that in case of the great officers of state at 
 home, the additional expenditure is very considerable which is involved in 
 holding those important offices? — If that principle is to be applied to 
 foreign diplomacy you would shut the door to talent in regard to our 
 representation abroad. I know it for a fact that the necessary expen- 
 diture of many of our ministers is so large that they are obliged, not 
 only to appropriate to it their private income, but also their capital. 
 
• 503. My object is to get from your experience and judgment an 
 opinion as to the facts that might be brought before this Qommittee to 
 furnish matter for recommendations in connection with the diplomatic 
 service ; and it seems to me that it is not out of reason for me to ask 
 you whether, supposing you had an officer similar in position to an under 
 secretary at home, a permanent high officer employed in foreign missions, 
 that would not enable the Government of this country to send over to a 
 foreign mission some public man who might not otherwise have been 
 trained to the diplomatic service ? — I would say generally that it would 
 be very undesirable to have attached to a foreign mission a permanent 
 officer of high station, such as those attached to the Foreign Office at 
 home. I think that permanence in a foreign mission is bad. A perma- 
 nent officer at home may be swayed by influences, but they are the influ- 
 ences of his own country. A permanent officer abroad is only too 
 likely to imbibe the feelings of the court, and to see through the eyes of 
 the court or the Government to which he is accredited, rather than through 
 his own eyes. 
 
 505. I may mention that it is a very sore subject with the South 
 American Republics that we are represented there by charges d'aifaires, 
 and not by ministers. The United States know their feelings so well, 
 that I believe to all the South American Kepublics they send duly 
 accredited ministers ; and the French are now doing the same to a 
 certain extent. 
 
 506. We will keep now to the European missions? — The ruling 
 feeling is the same. If the feeling in the South American Republics is as 
 I -describe it, necessarily, to a much greater degree, would it be the 
 feeling in Europe. 
 
 515. I do not think you quite apprehend the importance to England of 
 the maintenance of a good understanding among the Powers of the 
 Continent ; it is essential to all our manufacturing and industrial interests, 
 and every effort that we can make to maintain a good understanding 
 between the Powers of Europe tends to support the interests of our 
 industrial classes here. 
 
 516. In regard to the state of the Continent, in your opinion can 
 there be said to be more than seven or eight states in Europe between 
 which and this country real international business can be carried on? 
 — ^My answer is, that in every state where we have either an ambassador 
 or an envoy, international business is carried on of very great importance, 
 in different degrees certainly; but all the states of Europe now hang 
 pretty nearly together, and what concerns one concerns all. 
 
 522. When there were only very limited and difficult means of com- 
 munication between London and foreign courts, did not much more depend 
 upon the individual judgment and action of ministers abroad than does 
 now? — Everything now depends upon the judgment and tact of the 
 minister in executing whatever instructions are conveyed to him. 
 
 530. The getting instructions upon a, particular point does not super- 
 sede the daily and hourly transactions in any important negotiation or 
 discussion going on abroad. 
 
 568. At this present time our correspondence with our missions is 
 divided between political and commercial correspondehce. A great por- 
 tion of the correspondence that goes out of the Foreign Office in London 
 goes out of the commercial division, is addressed by the Secretary of 
 State to the ambassador, and is acted upoji by him, in the same manner 
 as the political part is addressed by the Secretary of State to the ambas- 
 sador, and is acted upon by him. 
 
 568. I am perfectly prepared to say, that if the Committee would 
 
12 
 
 recommend that missions in South America should be placed on a higher 
 footing, and that the country should bear the expense of doing so, our 
 position in those countries would be very much improved. 
 
 575. I told you the other day that I had had brought before me the 
 fact of two American ministers being obliged to resign their employment 
 from inability to live upon their salaries ; and one of those ministers, if 
 I am rightly informed, was at a place where a higher salary was paid to 
 him than to our own minister. 
 
 585. I will now go to J;he South American missions. You have told 
 us that our interests suffer very materially in connection with these 
 missions, by reason of our not being properly represented there ? — What 
 I said was, that I considered that in some oases our interests suffered from 
 our not being properly represented. I have nothing to say against the 
 gentlemen, as your question would imply ; but I speak of the gentlemen 
 not having a sufficient representative character. 
 
 586. But would that recommendation of yours be answered if these 
 representatives had higher rank without any higher salary? — I do not 
 ask any higher salary for them, and they say that they do not ask any 
 higher salary for themselves ; but I certainly never did yet know a man 
 who took an advancement in rank upon the same salary held before, who 
 did not within a year or two come and represent that he wanted a higher 
 
 596. No subjects of another country require protection in this country 
 in the way that protection is required in foreign countries for British sub- 
 jects and British interests. And it is only just lately that the North 
 German Confederation, generally rather economical in its expenditure, 
 has found it necessary to appoint diplomatic representatives to those 
 countries. 
 
 1417. Mr. Rylands.'] Would it not be fair to make a deduction from 
 the outfit allowances in cases where ambassadors and ministers are not 
 obliged to buy plate? — Certainly not. The outfit allowances are only 
 sufficient, indeed they are not sufficient, to enable them to meet their 
 expenses. I should be very glad, indeed, if the Committee would recom- 
 mend the granting a certain portion of plate to every mission, as was done 
 before 1816. 
 
 1545. Mr. Lowther.'] Do you know of any instances of applications 
 having been made to you by heads of missions for extra hands, and the 
 Foreign Office not being able to supply them ? — Several, I think ; very 
 many of the foreign missions, even when at the fullest, cry out for addi- 
 tional assistance, and we have no means of supplying them ; and when 
 the men are on leave from the mission, of course they are very hardly 
 pressed, but we have no reserve to draw on. 
 
 1559. As long as you do not call upon a minister to spend more for his 
 house rent than his allowance, Ido not see that there is anyparticular hardship 
 in putting him into a house taken by Government ; because we do not expect 
 him to save anything out of his house rent. If he can get a house for the 
 money assigned to him, well and good, but at the same time I believe that, 
 in many instances, a minister cannot do it. 
 
 15C0. And when a new head of a mission arrives, he is expected to set 
 himself up at once ? — I cannot say that he is expected to do so, but it is 
 assumed that he would. 
 
 1564. With regard to the duties of secretaries of legation, do you 
 consider that they are bound to attend every day at the chancery ? — The 
 rule was laid down in the circular which you will find in the Blue Book of 
 1801 ; I should myself think that they should attend every day in the 
 chancery, in the same manner as I attend every day in the Foreign Office. 
 
13 
 
 1578. Lord Augustus Loftus says that the work has increased tenfold 
 since 1837 ; do you believe that to be a correct statement? — Yes. 
 
 1579. And the pay has not increased in proportion? — No. 
 
 1590. Do you know any instances yourself of confidence having been 
 betrayed by any of the junior members of the profession ? — I am happy 
 to say that I do not. 
 
 1595. Mr. Eastwick.2 Is your binder bound to secrecy? — We never 
 bind anybody to secrecy ; it is a sure way to make him break confidence. 
 
 1608. Mr. William Lowther.'] Do you know of any instances of diplo- . 
 mats, successful in their career, having amassed large fortunes, or indeed 
 any fortunes ? — I do not know of any. 
 
 1609. Then you would not look upon it as a very lucrative profession ? \- 
 — I look upon it as a most ruinous profession in point of money. ' 
 
 1623. As far as I understand Sir Henry Elliot's statement, putting 
 
 it in figures to make myself more understood, it was this. Supposing 
 
 he has now four secretaries, he says that three are quite sufficient 
 
 to do the current work, but that it would be necessary that those 
 
 three should have their regular leaves in succession, and that as two 
 
 could not do the current work, the Foreign Office must send a person to 
 
 supply the place of the man on leave ; and that I presume will not simply 
 
 apply to the embassy at Constantinople, but to all our embassies. Well, 
 
 the effect of that would be that we must keep a sort of co-operative store 
 
 of clerks or secretaries to draw upon as there might be a demand for 
 
 them. These would be second secretaries to all intents and purposes, and 
 
 of the most expensive kind, because although you may send a second 
 
 secretary at a low salary to live at a place two or three years, yet he can 
 
 take a lodging, and perhaps make some economical arrangement, but if 
 
 you send a second secretary from England for three months, you must 
 
 pay him much more liberally than you would pay your regular second 
 
 secretary, because he would be obliged to live expensively at an hotel, 
 
 probably at double the expense that he would otherwise incur. In 
 
 addition to that a second secretary, with all his ability, on first going to 
 
 a mission cannot be as useful to the mission as if he regularly belonged 
 
 to it. A man will require perhaps two or three months to acclimatise 
 
 himself to the mission, to know the ways of business in the mission, and 
 
 the papers in the mission. Moreover, in another way it would not 
 
 answer I think, because as we hold it to be a very important part of the 
 
 duty of a second secretary to have friends and acquaintances in the place, 
 
 and go into society, a new man coming to a place would not be able to 
 
 be of the same use in that respect that a man regularly attached to the 
 
 mission would be ; and practically you would keep a mission with the 
 
 same number of men, but not so useful and much more expensive. That, 
 
 I believe, is the upshot of the proposal. 
 
 1624. You think that it would be neither so efficient a service nor 
 ensure any economy? — It would be ruinously expensive and thoroughly 
 disorganising to the service. 
 
 1638. Mr. Otway.'] I have no hesitation in saying, that half of the 
 merit of our office consists in the means that we have of despatching 
 almost an inconceivable amount of business in an inconceivably short 
 space of time, and that you can only do with good fellowship, and social 
 fellowship, amongst the clerks in the office, and that prevails to an extent 
 which nobody but those practically conversant with the office can appre- 
 ciate. Long as I have been in the office, I have never known the clerks 
 in the office daunted by any amount of work, or shrink from any amount 
 of sacrifice. , The work will be done. It will be a give and take thing 
 among the clerks. If I say to any division, or more than one divisionj 
 
14 
 
 " This or that thing must be done in a certain time," I am as sure that it 
 will be done as if I had already seen it done ; and that can only be' 
 managed by an office in which what is commonly called a good esprit de 
 corps prevails. 
 
 1689. Take the duties of a resident clerk ; he must necessarily be in 
 possession in critical times of very important and early information,' 
 before you, or I, or the Secretary of State even know it? — Yes. 
 
 1640. Is there any instance in your knowledge of the confidence 
 reposed in those gentlemen being betrayed? — 1 have never known, aa 
 regards a resident clerk, or any clerk in the office, anything to transpire 
 that ought not to transpire. 
 
 1641. Necessarily, then, a system which has been carried on with such 
 success for so long a time you would feel very much averse to disturbing ? 
 — ^I think that it would be perfectly ruinous to alter the system. 
 
 1652. The United States maintain a diplomatic representative with the 
 character of a minister of the third class at Brussels, the Hague, Copen- 
 hagen, Stockholm, Athens, Lisbon, and Berne. If, as suggested, we were 
 to reduce our missions at the courts above mentioned, to which the United 
 States appoint ministers, to the lower rank of charge d'affaires, the position 
 of the country in Europe would be disparaged, and with that its influence 
 entirely destroyed-. I would refer the Committee to a better witness than 
 myself on this subject — namely, to Lord Palmerston's evidence given 
 before the Committee on Official Salaries in 1860, at Questions 664 to 693, 
 page 72 and the following pages. "The position of the United States 
 renders their European diplomacy a matter to them of very secondary 
 importance ; they are separated from Europe by the Atlantic ; they have 
 no direct interest in most of the things that pass in Europe, and the chief 
 thing that they want is information." We protect 760/. more of trade by 
 our aggregate services, and 43 tons more of shipping, for every pound 
 expended than the United States protect. 
 
 1671. Mr. Otway.'] Do not you think that there would be some advan- 
 tage in appointing to each mission a chanoelier, on the French system, to 
 take charge of the archives, and who would hand down the traditions,- so 
 to speak, of the legation when a new chief came in ? — I do not think that 
 it would be desirable, except in a place like Constantinople or Paris, 
 where the archives are very voluminous. 
 
 1673. Our registrar at Paris is Mr. Atlee, who was for many years 
 Lord Cowley's private secretary, and therefore a person upon whom the 
 most implicit confidence can be placed. Our archivist at Constantinople 
 is Count Alexander Pisani, who has been, I believe, 50 years in the service, 
 has acquitted himself honourably and uprightly throughout the whole of 
 his career, and who, I believe, is a man whose like you could' hardly find 
 in any other public service. 
 
 1687. Mr. Arthur Russell.'] There have been no complaints from the 
 members of the diplomatic service against the agency system, have there ? 
 — I believe that the general feeling in the diplomatic and consular services 
 is one of unmixed regret at the abolition of a system which has served 
 them, under which their convenience has been greatly consulted, under 
 which they, have made many personal friends, and from which their 
 connection with the Foreign Office has been most close. 
 
 1712. Our Minister at Washington is obliged, perhaps more than any 
 other, mipister, to open his house and his table liberally in order to 
 receive the ministers, senators, and influential persons of the United States. 
 It is expected of the British Minister that he should do so. Mr. Thornton 
 is therefore obliged, and will be obliged, to continue his hospitality on 
 
15 
 
 diminished means, unless it please this Committee to take into considera- 
 tion not only that his salary, when gold was at 150, was wholly inadequate 
 to maintain the expense which for the interest of the country he ought to 
 incur, but that lie is now much more deprived of the means of meeting 
 that expense by the great depreciation in the value of gold. It is reaUy a 
 thing which is very well deserving the attention of any persons who look 
 at the relations between this country and the United States, and who 
 know how strong the real feeling in the United States is, as I believe, in 
 favour of this country. There may be, as we all know, on the surface, 
 storms, hard words, Ul-natnred language, but you may depend upon it 
 that under those hard words, storms, and ill-natured language, there is an 
 undercurrent of good feeling which tends to make the United States draw 
 closer and closer to this country, and to feel in the prosperity and welfare 
 of this country a kindred interest, for they know and feel that, in time to 
 come, those of the Anglo-Saxon race may have to stand shoulder to 
 shoulder in support of civilisation and progress; and it is greatly our 
 interest, and it ought to be our pride and our desire, not to damp that 
 good feeling by discouraging the disposition of the influential persons in 
 the United States to look upon the British Minister as the representative 
 of a kindred nation, and of a Sovereign whom they justly respect and 
 admire. 
 
 ^ ^ # # if * 
 
 1750. I am ready to put before the Committee as my own, a plan 
 which, though it may not provide promotion for the junior members of our 
 service, may improve their position very considerably. It is this : that an 
 attache, instead of waiting for an allowance till he has served four years, 
 should at the end of two years receive a salary of lOOZ. ; at the end of four 
 years he should as now receive his commission as third secretary, with a 
 salary as now of 1601. a year in the aggregate. When a third secretary had 
 served for five years, I would give him 50/. a year more, making the aggre- 
 gate salary 200Z. a year as long as he remained thereafter a third secretary. 
 I would give a second secretary, if he had served five years as such, an 
 addition of 501. a year to his salary, and after he had served ten years as 
 such, I would make that 50/. 100/., wholly irrespective of any other salary 
 that he might be drawing at the time. I would give a secretary of legation 
 after five years' service as a secretary of legation, 100/. a year beyond his 
 salary, irrespective of whatever salary he might be receiving. I would 
 go still further, and to any member of our service, secretary of embassy, 
 secretary of legation, second and third secretary, or attache, who at Peters- 
 burg, at Constantinople, at Teheran, at Athens, at Pekin, or at Yeddo, 
 should obtain a colloquial knowledge of the country in which he was 
 living, so that he might be able to converse with the people without 
 the assistance of an interpreter for all ordinary purposes, I would give, so 
 long as he remained in the country, irrespective of any other allowance 
 that he might be drawing, a sum of 100/. a year. 
 
 * * « ' * * ♦ 
 
 1763. Mr. Kinnaird.'] It is generally understood that there is a depart- 
 ment in foreign post offices connected with the police? — There is supposed 
 to be a department which goes by the general designation of the Jareaw noir.^ 
 
 1764. It is not at aU an unusual things but it is one of the precautions 
 of their system, to open letters ? — Of course I cannot say that of my own 
 knowledge, but my impression is so strong on the subject, that I never 
 send through a foreign post office a thing that I do not wish them to read. 
 If it were a thing that 1 should wish them to read, and which I did not 
 like to say otherwise, I would send it through the post office. 
 
 1799. Mr. Holms.] I see that Sir Augustus Paget, in his report to Lord 
 
16 
 
 Clarendon, states that the staff has plenty of work. " It must be remem- 
 bered, that at the Florence Mission there is, in addition to the ordinary 
 chancery work, a far greater amount of consular and notarial business to 
 be attended to, than at almost any other mission, owing to the vast number 
 of British subjects residing in, or passing through, this capital." I pre- 
 sume that that work is not done for nothing ? — ^It is done for nothing ; 
 there are no fees taken at any legation. 
 
 1837. Viscount Barrington.'] It is hardly possible for you to do with a 
 smaller staff of messengers than now? — We mean to try to do with 12, just, 
 as I say, in order to meet the pressure upon us for economy ; but I feel 
 certain myself, that if any trouble were to occur in Kurppe we should not 
 only have to pay the messengers whom we had reduced, their pensions, 
 but to re-create the original number. 
 
 Right Hon. the Earl of Malmesburt. 
 
 674. Chairman.'] It has been suggested, that the examination should 
 be one of open competition. Should you be disposed to approve of that ? 
 — I should not approve of that for the Foreign Office, however desirable 
 it might be for some others. I think that it is of a peculiar character, and 
 that men of a peculiar position, and of a certain class of education, should 
 be appointed to the diplomatic service. 
 
 675. Mr. Hammond has expressed an opinion, that gentlemen of a 
 higher class of life are preferable for that service to those who would come 
 in under open competition. Is that your Lordship's opinion? — That is the 
 case, certainly, in Europe. 
 
 676. You think that the service abroad would be disparaged if it were not 
 supplied from that class in the higher diplomatic branches ? — I think so. 
 
 680. I do not think that salaries are too high, in consequence of the 
 extraordinary rise in prices within the last 10 or 15 years abroad. I think 
 that the prices abroad in Europe must be certainly 30 or 40 per cent, 
 more than they were 20 years ago. 
 
 681. Have you a general familiarity with the state of things abroad from 
 personal knowledge ? — I have been abroad every year for 40 years. 
 
 682. And that is the result of your own experience ? — Yes. 
 
 697. Are there occasionally matters in which, if the business was not 
 conducted very honourably, very large sums of money might be obtained 
 by the disclosure of information ? — Yes. 
 
 698. And therefore it is essential that a gentleman in the service should 
 have a high sense of honour ? — Yes, and a strong esprit de corps for the 
 honour of the service. 
 
 718. Viscount Barrington.'] Am I to gather trom what your Lordship 
 has just stated, that you are of opinion that the diplomatic service ought 
 to be looked upon as a profession ? — I think certainly it should ; there is 
 really a great deal of technical matter to be learnt, besides experience of 
 foreign countries and foreign courts. 
 
 720. I think I understood your Lordship to say that you did not con- 
 sider the salaries were too high ? — Certainly not too high. 
 
 721. And do you think that the salaries of the junior members ought 
 to be increased according to their length of service ? — I think it would be 
 fair, and certainly desirable. 
 
 722. Your Lordship is aware that under the present system, supposing 
 that the chief is absent from his mission, a reduction is made in his salary 
 during that time, and a proportionate increase is given to the secretary 
 who remains there ; have you an opinion that any advantage would accrue 
 to the diplomatic service by a change being made in that respect? — I think 
 that to &ie the principal in that matter is a most clumsy way of paying the 
 
17 
 
 secretaries of legation ; the object of the former Committees of your House 
 was positively to encourage the heads of missions to visit England every 
 year ; and you would find in the Report of the last Committee on this sub- 
 ject that they say that no impediment should be placed in the way of that. 
 Well, it becomes a very great impediment to a man who has no private 
 fortune of his own to have to pay what on the average is 41. a day during 
 the time of his two months' (60 days) leave ; the consequence is, to my 
 knowledge, that many of them do not avail themselves, because they 
 cannot afford to avail themselves, of their leave of absence. 
 
 725. There is one small mission in Germany, Stuttgardt, which might 
 perhaps be suppressed, or rendered more economical by having only a 
 charge d'affaires at it ; but I do not know any other that strikes me. 
 
 741. Viscount Sandon.'} Then with regard to the South American mis- 
 sions, is it your impression that the interests of this country have suffered 
 from our maintaining those missions on a lower scale than those of other 
 countries ? — ^Yes, I think they certainly have. 
 
 742. The interests that we have with those countries are principally 
 commercial interests ? — Yes. 
 
 743. And those commercial interests have been growing with great 
 rapidity during the last few years ? — Yes. 
 
 744. — Therefore your Lordship's impression would be that the commer- 
 cial interests of a country would be better protected in fact by having the 
 missions on a larger scale than those are ?^-Yes, I think so. 
 
 745. I have heard complaints from American ministers here of the low 
 rate at which they were paid. 
 
 746. Because it impeded their showing and receiving hospitality on the 
 same footing as their diplomatic brothers ? — Yes. 
 
 757. Very often transactions are going on of which the outer public 
 are unaware, which are of vital importance to this country in preventing 
 the probabilities of war at the very beginning? — Yes, and which require 
 the greatest secrecy, or else they would not succeed, 
 
 758. Therefore we could not judge of the advantage of the diplomatic 
 service to the country merely from the transactions that come to light in 
 the public press ? — No, certainly not. 
 
 759. Mr. Arthur Russell.'] With regard to that last question, would 
 you not say that if one war were prevented in a generation this country 
 would have an ample return for the money expended in the diplomatic 
 service ? — Certainly it would tenfold. . 
 
 763. Mr. Cartwright.] In the event of a fusion of the diplomatic 
 and consular services, do not you think that the block which at present 
 exists in the diplomatic service would be transferred into the consular 
 branch? — No, I think not ; you would lighten^the diplomatic service, and, 
 supposing the consular service to remain as it is, there are no candidates 
 for the consular service analogous to the secretaries ; you would merely 
 fill up the vacancies in the consular service by putting secretaries in, 
 instead of taking persons from the population at large. 
 
 764. Then your Lordship is not aware that the vice consuls enter the 
 service with aspirations for, or with a view to, promotion generally, but 
 you think that they are content to keep that post, and do not look to 
 advancement ? — I cannot say what they hope and expect, but many of 
 them, who make very good vice consuls, would not do as consuls. 
 
 767. Your Lordship, in 1861, expressed a very decided opinion in 
 favour of clerks being appointed at the greater missions ? — I think that, 
 in the larger missions, it would be useful to have an assistant clerk to 
 keep the archives, who should be a permanent clerk. 
 
 774. Mr. Holms.'] Are the American ministers, according to your 
 
18 
 
 experience, as well received at European courts as our own ministers ? — ^I 
 should not like the Americans to read my answer, but I do not think they 
 are. 
 
 1192. Mr. William Lowther.] I daresay you know cases of outsiders 
 being taken and made heads of missions ; without specifying them exactly, 
 do you think that on the whole they have been successful as heads of 
 missions ? — No, I do not think so ; my experience is against it. 
 
 1237. Mr. Otway.'] Your Lordship's opinion is that it is necessary, in 
 justice, that some alteration should be made with regard to the leave of 
 ministers, that they should be allowed to take four months, two years' 
 leave, at one time ? — Yes ; cumulative leave of absence. 
 
 1244. Mr. Cameron.'] I believe you have stated that you do not 
 approve of doing away with the missions in Denmark and Sweden? — 
 Certainly I do not. 
 
 1245. Although of course we all hope that such a thing may never 
 happen, it is still a possibility that some day or other we may be engaged 
 in a war with Russia? — It certainly would be against our interests not to 
 
 .be represented at both those courts. It has happened within the last 
 century three or four times, that Sweden and Denmark have been on 
 opposite sides, and each requires a separate minister. 
 
 1246. And if we were to go to war with Russia, and we had no repre- 
 sentative in Denmark and Sweden, while the Russian Government had 
 representatives there, I suppose there is no doubt that our position as 
 a naval Power in the Baltic would suffer? — It is of the utmost importance 
 that we should be well represented in those countries. 
 
 Right Hon. Sir H. G. Elliot, G.G.B. 
 
 820. Chairman.l On the question of leave, have you anything to 
 say to the Committee ? — I do not exactly see why there should be the 
 distinction that there is between the chiefs and the juniors with regard 
 to running two years' leave into one. I do not see why we should be 
 limited to one year's leave, or why we should be deprived of all time 
 allowance for our journeys. 
 
 824. What you would suggest is, that the heads of missions should be 
 treated on the same footing as the secretaries in respect of Ifcave ? — Yes, 
 I think it would be but fair. 
 
 831. Has there been a change in the character and nature of diplo- 
 macy since you joined the service, in the way of its becoming more of a 
 close and definite profession ? — It is much more a close profession in this 
 sense, that since the examinations were established, we have lost what I 
 think was the advantage of having a number of young men coming into it, 
 who did perfectly well for all the copying work and the earlier branches, 
 but who had no intention of going on to the higher branches ; the result 
 being that the promotion among those who meant to make it their pro- 
 fession was at that time much more rapid than at present. 
 
 838. Your view would be to test a man's attainments in the pro- 
 fession ? — ^Yes, to test his attainments in the profession, and if possible 
 to get rid of some of the incompetent men that you must have entering all 
 professions. I would try to make that examination as real as possible, 
 and not give men time as at present to come home and prepare for it, 
 which means to cram. 
 
 852. Have you ever considered the question of the partial amalgamation 
 or interchange of service between the consular and the diplomatic services? 
 — I do not think that the amalgamation would be advantageous ; I should 
 not like to debar the Secretary of State from the right of taking a man 
 who in the consular service had shown himself to be a very capable person, 
 
19 
 
 and putting him into the diplomatic service ; and I should be very sorry 
 indeed to see any rule drawn which should prevent him from doing so, 
 but I do not think that it would be advantageous to make it a practice. 
 The lines of duty in the two services are very distinct, and it would not 
 be advantageous to have a consul trying to bring himself into notice as a 
 political writer. 
 
 857. You suggested that there might be a reduction amongst the diplo- 
 matic staff, you think, in the subordinate departments ; do you think that 
 that could be carried out? — I think that the best way of preventing a 
 block is by keeping your junior staff as low as it possibly can be kept, 
 being efficient at the same- time ; and certainly my experience would lead 
 me to believe that at a great many missions the staff is higher than is 
 required if the men are kept really at work. 
 
 866. Do you think that it would be possible to have a sort of flying 
 staff to go about where there was extra work ? — 1 should think it would 
 be an economical arrangement, and an equally efficient one, if they were to 
 have enough men at the Foreign Office to be able to detach some for 
 special services. They might calculate that there are so many missions 
 at which one man wiU be absent for a time, and they might provide persons 
 that could be spared from the office to go to those missions when necessary. 
 
 867. You agree, I understand, that there is a decided block in the 
 service? — There is no question about that. The younger men now in the 
 service have a prospect of being ministers by the time that they are 
 about 65. 
 
 869. Do you think it for the advantage of the public service that a 
 man can only attain one of the chief posts at that age ? — No, I think it a 
 great disadvantage, because if you happen to get in your service a man of 
 at all exceptional or superior abilities, you lose his services during the 
 best years of his life ; when I say "lose his services," I mean you employ 
 him in a very subordinate position. I think that the seniority system has 
 been carried a great deal too far in that respect. 
 
 875. I do think that the second secretaries, and secretaries of lega- 
 tion should be better paid, and more particularly if you were to make a 
 severe examination. 
 
 876. You would combine that, I understand, with a reduction of the 
 number of the public servants ? — I should gradually reduce the number, and 
 pay each of the second secretaries a great deal more than they have at 
 present. 
 
 909. I think that the telegraph is very far from facilitating business.' 
 I think that it makes business much more difficult than it was formerly. 
 
 911. Speaking from your own experience of other large missions, do 
 you think it would be a good plan to have a permanent officer in charge 
 of the records in the nature of a clerk ? — I think that in the large missions 
 it would enable you to diminish your diplomatic staff if you had a per- 
 manent officer. 
 
 914. If you allowed a minister 300Z. a year for a private secretary, with 
 the understanding that he is not to take anybody belonging to the embassy, 
 I think then you might reduce your permanent staff. 
 
 920. Do not you think that the fact that secretaries of legations are 
 changed so much from one post to another, interferes with that knowledge 
 of the documents in the chancery which would otherwise be possessed by 
 the secretaries of legation ? — I tlunk it is a very great advantage that they 
 should be frequently changed. Occasionally you put a minister to incon- 
 venience from having a new hand brought in, but as far as the service is 
 concerned I am sure it is a gainer by a man getting experience in as many 
 courts as possible. 
 
20 
 
 945. There seems to be an idea that the use of the telegraph diminishes 
 the work of the head of a mission; do you think that it increases it 
 or diminishes it? — I am sure it increases it; 1 do not think that that 
 admits of a question. 
 
 1002. At first it sounds as if it would be unfair upon the vice consuls 
 to give diplomatists the consulships that these other gentlemen may be 
 expecting ; but, in point of practice, the large majority of consuls are 
 not appointed from the vice consuls, but from outsiders altogether. 
 
 1003. Have you thought whether it would be a good thing to throw 
 open the post of attaches to open competition? — Yes, 1 have often thought 
 of that, and I think that it would not answer at all. 
 
 1015. I think what you want is to keep your diplomatic servants as 
 English as you can keep them; the tendency of all of us, from living 
 abroad, is to lose our English feelings'; we really do not know on many 
 subjects what the feelings are in England. 
 
 1028. In the profession generally I do not think there would be any 
 dislike to more selection. I am quite sure that the good men would 
 like it. 
 
 1046. I should personally like to keep the staffs at their present 
 number, and if the House of Commons would recommend the older ones 
 who have served long being pensioned off UberaUy, then the difficulty 
 would be got over. 
 
 1266. I do not hold to a severe second examination for a man who 
 really has distinguished himself before he came into the service, but I 
 think it much more essential that the general severe examination should 
 take place at a later period than at the first entry. 
 
 1293. I suggested, in order to get rid of the present block, that diplo- 
 matic servants should be invited to volunteer for consulates ; I would not 
 force them to go to them, but in order to give greater power of selection, 
 I suggested that for the future the young men entering the diplomatic 
 service should be told that till they rose to a certain rank (which I think 
 should be that of secretary of legation) they were all liable to be drafted 
 into the consular service, if the Secretary of State thought they were 
 better fitted for that than for the diplomatic service. 
 
 1295. Suppose your suggestion carried out, what guarantee have we 
 that in the course of a few years we should not have another block in the 
 service ? — I have proposed, and insisted very strongly on the opinion that 
 I hold on the subject, that the staffs should be kept in the lowest possible 
 state compatible with efficiency. 
 
 1321. There are certain prizes in the consular department, as in every 
 other department ? — I should be very sorry to deprive the consuls of their 
 prizes ; I think they earn them, and deserve them. 
 
 1389, I certainly think that it would not be good economy to go very 
 far in reducing small missions, for you never know from what quarters 
 troubles may arise that may produce the greatest complications ; and the 
 efforts of every English representative, in whatever part of the world 
 he is, whether in a large embassy or at a smaU mission, are directed to 
 the one object of preventing anything that may disturb the public peace ; 
 that is what we all have in view. As far as the public is concerned, the 
 diplomatic service is only known by two things, by their great successes, 
 or by their failures ; by their success in carrying through a great and 
 well-known negotiation, or by their failure in preventing a war ; and with 
 regard to that, I do not think that it is much more fair to say that we 
 are of no use because we do not always prevent a war, than it is to say 
 that doctors are of no use because they do not always prevent people 
 from dying. In the small missions there are constantly questions arising, 
 
21 
 
 in -which, by the personal influence of a British representative, a misun- 
 derstanding is cleared up, or a claim is satisfied, which if not taken in time 
 ■would very likely lead to a serious complication hereafter ; and there is no 
 country in which that may not happen. The smallest kingdom in Europe 
 is Greece ; but a rupture between Greece and Turkey, even if it did not 
 involve us in a war, would produce a disturbance which would certainly 
 cost us a great deal more than any saving you might effect in reducing 
 your legation there. What is done by our representatives in the way I 
 have alluded to cannot be generally known, but it ought, I think, to be 
 seriously taken into consideration before too many missions are si^pressed. 
 
 Me. F. B. Alston. 
 
 2009. Mr. Rylands.'} I presume, from your statement (which, no doubt, 
 is in every particular strictly correct), that at the time when Mr. Murray 
 handed over his agencies to you, it was done as a matter of personal friend- 
 ship, and that there was no payment made to him for goodwill, or in com- 
 pensation for the loss of his profits ? — There was no payment. 
 
 Me. John William Kate. 
 
 2063. Will you state what is the course of business, and what it has 
 been since 1858, with reference to Persian matters? — Now the Persian 
 Minister at Teheran is immediately under the Secretary of State for 
 Foreign Affairs, and he addresses his communications to the Secretary of 
 State for Foreign Affairs, but he sends duplicates of his letters addressed 
 to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, which relate to Indian 
 subjects, under flying seal to the Secretary of State for India, and we read 
 them, and peruse them, and take note of them. 
 
 2065. Chairman.'] In point of fact, the Secretary of State for Foreign 
 Affairs officially consults the Secretary of State for India upon matters 
 connected with our Persian relations? — Yes, in so far as they relate to 
 Oriental questions. 
 
 2066. Mr. Eastwick.'] Are there not many important questions coming 
 under the immediate cognizance and direction of the Indian Government, 
 but having a direct bearing upon our Persian diplomacy, which in the 
 existing state of things can only be decided by Her Majesty's Government, 
 after correspondence between the Foreign Office and the India Office, 
 and does not thit occasion considerable delay ? — There are a great number 
 of such questions, particularly at the present time. 
 
 2075. Supposing that the superintendence of our relations with Persia 
 should be re-transferred to the India Office, are you of opinion that it 
 should be placed under the Secretary of State directly, or under the Vice- 
 roy ? — ^Most decidedly under the Secretary of State for India. 
 
 2079. Have any opinions been expressed on the subject by the present 
 Viceroy? — Yes, the present Viceroy has expressed his opinion to the effect, 
 that the complications are such that he finds it difficult to conduct the 
 business of the Persian Gulf at all. 
 
 2080. In point of fact, our policy in Affghanistan and our policy in 
 Persia have a great number of commingling points ? — No doubt they have, 
 particularly all the boundary questions. Owing to the two different 
 sets of officers that arg now controlling these affairs, there is neces- 
 sarily considerable antagonism which would not, I think, happen if the 
 whole were under one controlling head, whether that one controlling head 
 were the Foreign Office or the India Office. 
 
 2081. I think that the same authorities that control the affairs of Persia 
 should also control the aff.airs of the Persian Gulf. If not there must be 
 complications, and it is a very natural thing that each controlling power or 
 
22 
 
 authority should support that power which is under hisimmediate protection, 
 because, for one reason, he understands its Sffairs a great deal better than 
 anyone else. 
 
 2092. Do you consider that the chief appointments of the Persian 
 Mission ought to' be given to officers of Indian experience ? — I think that 
 they ought, decidedly ; India must be a very good training school for the 
 purpose, considering the number of different countries to -which Indian 
 officers go, many of them going quite on the borders of Persia ; and they 
 must have much more knowledge of Persian affairs than an officer who may 
 go from Austria or from Prussia. 
 
 2102. Mr. Richard Shd.w.'] Are we to understand that the Foreign 
 Office, since the Persian Mission has been under its control, has not selected 
 Indian officers for that service ? — Yes, Indian officers have been appointed 
 by the Foreign Office. 
 
 2103. I understood rather from you that the Indian officers had been 
 excluded from the Persian service ? — TSo. 
 
 2108. Mr. Butler-Johnstone.'] In point of fact, the double Government 
 does not cause much delay ; you get very rapid communication between 
 the two offices? — No doubt. 
 
 2112. You mentioned something about English officers being employed 
 by the Shah of Persia. Is that question settled ? — No, that question is 
 not settled ; and there is a reference being made now to the Shah's Govern- 
 ment as to the terms. 
 
 2122. I think the reason why a difference of opinion exists is, that our 
 Minister at Teheran is very anxious to support the Persian Government, 
 and is not sufficiently well acquainted with the effect that supporting the 
 Persian Government in a particular question would have upon those states 
 under the protection of the Indian Government, and therefore he backs up 
 his own man ; owe officers, on the other hand, back up their men ; and I 
 think the reason why each backs up his man is because he is ignorant of 
 the case of the other man. 
 
 2127. Mr. Baring.'] Taking into consideration the weight that some 
 Persian affairs have with reference to European affairs, you do not wish to 
 take the responsibility of the entire control of Persian affairs ? — No ; we 
 should consult the Foreign Office in any matter where we thought it expe- 
 dient ; we should not do away entirely with the control of the Foreign 
 Office in Persia. 
 
 2128. Chairman.] Does not a great deal of your objection arise from 
 the fact that the head of the mission in Persia is a European politician, 
 and not an Indian politician ? — I should like to see the head of the mission, 
 and all under him, men of Indian experience; but that is not my sole 
 objection. One of my principal objections is, that the present system 
 involves an extraordinary anomaly, which is this : that for all purposes of 
 control and government of our relations with Persia, it is said at the 
 present time that the affairs of the mission are more European than they 
 are Asiatic or Indian ; but for purposes of payment, it is stated that they 
 are more Indian than they are European. I say that those who have the 
 control over these relations, and can govern them as they like, are those 
 which should pay the bulk of the money. 
 
 2129. Then, as I understand, it comes to this, that if the English 
 Exchequer was to pay the 12,000Z., as the English Exchequer pays the 
 3,000Z., you would be very much more satisfied with the state of things - 
 than now ?— Yes, but not wholly satisfied. 
 
 2137. Mr. Otway.] But if the Persian Government came into collision 
 with the Indian Government on any one of these questions, of necessity it 
 woxild involve a European question also ? — ^Indirectly, it might, in some. 
 
23 
 
 2138. Persia has representatives at the courts of all the Great Powers, 
 has she not? — Yes. 
 
 2139. She •would therefore be able to interest these Powers in her 
 cause ? — ^Yes. 
 
 2140. I think the last war was concluded by the mediation of France ? 
 — It was concluded at Paris. I do not know to what extent, if any, France 
 was concerned in the matter. 
 
 2145. You mentioned something about the difficulty of communication 
 between the Viceroy of India and our Minister in Persia ; but still in case 
 of an emergency the Viceroy of India does not hesitate to address what 
 you might almost call instructions to him ? — I think the Viceroy of India 
 complains that he cannot give instructions ; that though he can communi- 
 cate and state his views, they are not always acted upon, and they faU far 
 short of instructions. 
 
 2146. Still it is within your own knowledge, is it not, that the Viceroy 
 does express his views, by telegraph and otherwise, to the Minister at 
 Persia ? — ^Yes. 
 
 2147. And the Minister in Persia, as a public servant discharging his 
 duty, would attend to the opinions of the Viceroy ? — If they are consistent 
 with the views of the Foreign Office. 
 
 2159. Chairman.'] The Minister at Teheran, I understood you to say, 
 Bends copies of all letters which concern Indian affairs through the Foreign 
 Office under flying seal, and they are forwarded to the India Office ? — Yes. 
 
 2170. Sir Charles Wentworth Dilke.'] Have you any experience of the 
 working of the competition of your civil servants ? — Yes. 
 
 2171. Sufficient to justify you in giving an opinion at all as to whether 
 such a scheme would be satisfactory for the diplomatic service? — Not 
 having been in India since the new rules came into force, I cannot judge 
 very well, but I find that the opinion generally of the civil service (it may 
 be prejudice) is not very much in favour of the present plan. 
 
 Major-Geneeai, Sib Henet Ceeswicke Rawlinson, K.C.B. 
 
 2182. Mr. Eastwick.'] Do you think it desirable that the officers who 
 fill appointments in Persia should be Indian officers, or would officers 
 of the regular diplomatic and consular services do as well ; at all events 
 after a time? — I think that officers of the Indian service are better. I 
 think that they are better qualified for employment in Persia from the 
 circumstance of their being conversant with the manners of Orientals, and 
 more scrupulous about offending Mahommedan prejudices. Besides, they 
 would come to Persia with a certain knowledge of the language, and would 
 take a real interest in the country, which is a very important consideration. 
 
 2186. Would you say that the Court of Persia approximates more to 
 the Indian courts or to the European courts in customs and character ? — 
 The Court of Teheran is in reality of the same type as the Indian Courts, 
 as the old Courts of Delhi and Lucknow, and the modern Courts of Cabul 
 and Hyderabad. Certainly in Persia there is a refinement both in manners 
 and language which does not exist in India ; and there is also a tendency 
 to imitate and to adopt European institutions. But as 1 said before, the 
 type is decidedly Oriental, and there is this essential difference between the 
 Persian Court and other courts, that at Teheran there is nothing like repre- 
 sentation, or any approach to constitutional government, or even what we 
 call in Europe "j)ublic opinion ;" there is nothing but the individual and 
 the irresponsible will of the sovereign. So that the duties of an envoy are 
 very different in Persia from what they are in any European court. An 
 envoy in an European, court, when engaged in any difficult negotiation, 
 naturally and very properly brings the influence of his government to bear 
 
24 
 
 upon public opinion or upon the advisers of the Crown ; but in Persia he 
 must be mainly dependent for success upon his own personal influence with 
 the sovereign. 
 
 2188. You held your appointment as minister in Persia for a compara- 
 tively short period 5 can you give any reasons for having retired so speedily ? 
 ■^-In the year 1859, when the relations with Persia were transferred from 
 the Foreign Office to the India Office, I was invited to take charge of the 
 Persian Mission. In the following year the mission was re-transferred to 
 the Foreign Office, and I tendered my resignation. I tendered my resig- 
 nation because the conditions on which I had taken office were not con- 
 tinued, and because by the transfer the position and the duties of the 
 mission were very considerably altered. 
 
 2190. Chairman.'] The reasons under which I acted amount to this, 
 that the system of the India Office, and the system of the Foreign 
 Office, are very different. Under the India Office, an officer appointed 
 to such a position as mine in Persia would be allowed a very considerable 
 liberty of action. Having received his general instructions, it would 
 then be left to his own individual responsibility to carry them out, by 
 personal management and influence. Under the Foreign Office, on the 
 other hand, he would be required implicitly to obey the rules and 
 traditions of that office, which, as I have before explained, are hardly, 
 I think, applicable to an Oriental court, although very well adapted to 
 European diplomacy ; and he would receive specific instructions on each 
 separate question. Also, under the transfer, there was a change in the 
 personnel pi the establishment, and there was especially an abolition of 
 the system of making presents, which, on accepting office, I had made a 
 sine qua non, as I knew it to be a recognised Oriental institution, and as I 
 considered it to be absolutely indispensable for the acquisition and the 
 retention of an influence at the court, as indeed is felt and acted on by the 
 Kussian Government to the present day. I may also add, ag a matter of 
 fact, that under the liberal system of the India Office, which authorised my 
 making presents on my own discretion, I had acquired a very considerable 
 personal influence with the Shah, which certainly tended very much to 
 facOitate the conduct of public business, and which, if any political emer- 
 gency had occurred, might have been of very great national importance. 
 
 2191. Did the power of bestowing presents contribute materially to that 
 influence? — Very greatly, indeed most essentially. 
 
 2196. Certainly, the principal and important business of the mission 
 refers to India ; but there occasionally arise European questions of some 
 importance. I should say myself, from what I remember, that at least 
 three-fourths of the despatches sent from Teheran are connected, directly 
 or indirectly, with India and Indian interests. 
 
 2197. And those affairs are the affairs of the greatest importance ? — 
 Undoubtedly ; those are the essential duties of the mission. 
 
 2205. I am clearly of opinion that there is very great inconvenience, 
 and not only inconvenience but injury, to the public interest from a 
 diversity of authority in conducting the relations with Persia and her 
 immediate neighbours ; for that diversity of authority not only delays and 
 complicates business, but also it begets an antagonism of views, and even 
 of interests, which is very deplorable. For example, at the present day, 
 if we may judge from the tone of the Indian press, all the proceedings of 
 Persia in reference to the Persian Gulf, or to the Eastern frontier, are 
 looked upon in India with suspicion and disfavour, as opposed to the 
 interests of the states conterminous with India, and with which India is 
 more immediately connected ; whereas, if our Eastern relations were all 
 equally under the Indian authorities (either at home or in India), it would 
 
25 
 
 be understood that the Viceroy was just as careful of the rights and 
 interests of Persia as of her neighbours the Arabs, or Affghans, or Belooches. 
 It must be apparent that this constant abuse of Persia.which takes place in 
 the Indian press, must produce a very bad effect in the country, and does, 
 1 have no doubt, very seriously cripple our minister's action. 
 
 2209. Are you aware that there are questions now of great importance 
 relating to the frontier of India and Persia, and to the Persian (iulf, the 
 decision of which ought to rest entirely with the India Office, and in which 
 references to the Foreign Office occasion delay and embarrassment? — 
 There are pending matters of much consequence in reference to a disputed 
 frontier in 8istan and Mekran, and also as to the claims of the Shah to certain 
 islands in the Persian Gulf. I think it would be much better that all 
 matters relating to the eastern frontiers of Persia should be dealt with by 
 one authority. 
 
 2217. The only actual war that we had with Persia was whUe the 
 mission was vmder an officer brought up in European courts ? — ^The only 
 actual war that we had was during Sir Charles Murray's tenure of office ; 
 but there was a suspension of relations, and a hostile occupation of 
 Karrack, while Sir John McNeill was Minister, who was originally an 
 Indian officer. 
 
 2218. As a member of the Indian Council, I would ask you whether 
 you think it reasonable that the whole of the charges in Persia should be 
 borne by the Indian Exchequer? — I must say I think it unreasonable that 
 all the expenses should be borne by one department, and all the control 
 should be exercised by another department. It seems to me that that only 
 can be justified on the assumption that the interests to be guarded in our 
 relations with Persia are exclusively Indian, whUe the Foreign Office is 
 alone competent to conduct those relations : and this I take to be a com- 
 plete fallacy. 
 
 2223. Mr. Otway.l How far do you think that the progress of Russia 
 in Central Asia, and the increased communications of Persia with European 
 courts, which has taken place since you were there, would modify your 
 view as to our diplomatic representation there being under the Foreign 
 Office? — I should say that the advance of Russia in Central Asia is 
 a raison de phis, since it makes Persia and the Persian interests of very 
 much more importance to us, in consequence of the increased pressure 
 upon India. 
 
 2227. I conclude that if a great difference arose between Great Britain 
 and Russia on questions in Central Asia, those differences would have to 
 be considered and settled by the action of the Foreign Office, not by that 
 of the India Office ? — Certainly, but the local interests in Persia, as con- 
 nected with that advance of Russia, would be decidedly more Indian than 
 European. 
 
 4682. Mr. Eastwick.'] It has been stated in answer to Question 3956, 
 that the progress of Russia in Central Asia tends to throw our relations 
 with Persia, and the questions affecting Persia generally, more and more 
 every day into the pale of European diplomacy, and therefore renders it more 
 and more desirable to keep Persia under the Foreign Office ; what is your 
 view with regard to that ? — ^The progress of Russia in Central Asia, and 
 especially the operations which have been now commenced on the eastern 
 shores of the Caspian, seems to me to bear directly upon India, and only 
 to affect England through India. All political relations, therefore, which 
 arise from that advance or are connected with it — ^the relations with 
 Persia included — ^become, [ conceive, Indian rather than European ; I 
 may give the Committee an illustration of what I mean by a reference to 
 matters now in progress. For some years the Indian Government, as is 
 
26 
 
 well known, pursued a policy in Central Asia of rigid non-interference, 
 a policy to which the by-word waa attached of " masterly inactivity ." 
 Kecent events, however, have forced us from this policy of isolation and 
 obliged us to open relations in many new quarters. The Umballah 
 conference and our friendly intercourse with the Court of Cabul was one 
 of the first results of this change. More recently the Viceroy of India has 
 despatched a mission for purposes of trade and general amity to the Court of 
 Kashgar ; and he now proposes to send an officer to Herat to co-operate 
 with a commissioner from England in arbitrating between the Persians 
 and Affgbans in Sistan ; and if he should see fit, in the interests of India, 
 to open relations with Eokhand or Bokhara, or Khiva, no one doubts his 
 competence to do so without previous reference to England. In Persia, 
 also, we are showing an awakened interest by undertaking- to arbitrate 
 between the Persians and Affghans in Sistan and to superintend the de- 
 limitation of a line of frontier in Mekran, and further by resuming the 
 practice, or offering to resume the practice, of furnishing officers from India 
 for the Persian army. AU this then shows, I submit, that the tendency of 
 Russian conquest in Central Asia is not only to necessitate an increased 
 activity on the part of the Indian Government, but also to bring our 
 relations with the countries intermediate between Russia and India within 
 the reach of Indian rather than of European diplomacy ; and when I make 
 this distinction I would beg to explain to the Committee that I intend a 
 distinction of character xather than of locality. By Indian diplomacy I 
 do not mean the mere local functions of the Foreign Department in 
 Calcutta, but I mean that general view of our Imperial policy which 
 regards the safety, honour, and interest of the British Empire in the East 
 as of fully equal value with the balance of power in Europe. This doctrine, 
 as far as my experience goes, is not recognised, or even understood, at 
 the Foreign Office. 
 
 4691. I may mention further, in connection with the subject, that for- 
 merly there no doubt was a disposition — during the period of the preva- 
 lence of the non-interference policy —to discourage, as much as possible, all 
 correspondence between Persia and India, and we are in reality paying the 
 penalty of that over-caution at present. In 1863, Her Majesty's Govern- 
 ment resolved to adopt a modification — in one important particular — of 
 our position as arbiter under the Treaty of Paris between the Persians 
 and Affghans. This modification was duly notified at the time to the 
 government of Persia, but was not notified to India, and the consequence 
 is that considerable embarrassment is felt at present. Had the affairs of 
 Peraia and Affghanistan been under one head at that period, whether that 
 head might be the Foreign Office or the Indian Office, this cause of embar- 
 rassment would not have arisen. 
 
 The Right Honourable Edwabd Henry, Earl of Derby. 
 
 2263. Chairman.'] Were you very much beset with appUoations for 
 nominations to the diplomatic service? — No, and that struck me as a rather 
 remarkable fact, considering the great anxiety which seems to per;vade the 
 public, with regard to getting admission to most branches of the public 
 service. 
 
 2270. Abstractedly, I understand you to prefer the Foreign Office 
 system of entrance rather than the diplomatic service system ? — I think 
 that the Foreign Office system of entrance has worked very well. The 
 doubt that has arisen in my mind as to applying the principle of 
 limited competition is merely this : 1 am not quite sure whether you 
 would have competitors. Of course competition, if competitors do not 
 come forward, reduces itself to simple nomination, and that not the best 
 
27 
 
 kind of nomination, because the minister appointing in that case feels 
 himself less responsible. 
 
 2272. A good deal has been said to us about the social position which 
 it is said to be necessary that the gentlemen nominated to the diplomatic 
 service should occupy, and that it is necessary, therefore, that they should 
 be selected more or less from one class of society ; is that your opinion, 
 or do you think that it might be thrown open ? — I think that it is very 
 essential that they should be, in every sense of the word, gentlemen ; I 
 mean by that, men of refined manners and cultivated minds. 
 
 2273. There has been a suggestion that a university degree should be 
 rather a qualification for a nomination ; has that ever been suggested to 
 you, or considered by you? — No, and I should not be inclined to favour 
 that suggestion. 
 
 2275. Then I think I collect on the whole, that you are prepared to 
 say that the present system of a'dmission is, from your experience, a satis- 
 factory mode, and you would not be disposed to make a change in it ?^I 
 can only judge the tree by its fruit. I shoixld say that, taking it upon an 
 average, the personnel of the diplomatic service stands decidedly high ; 
 there are jnany men in it whom I should consider, with the experience 
 which they must necessarily have acquired in the discharge of their duty, 
 quite fitted for the highest post in the service. 
 
 2279. What wasThe doctrine which you held as Secretary of State in 
 regard to promotion ? did you look upon it as if there was a cWm to pro- 
 motion by seniority, or that it was a system of selection for the chief ships ? 
 — I hold that any system is unsatisfactory which does not take into account 
 both the principle of seniority and the principle of selection. I cannot 
 conceive anything more unworkable than a system absolutely confined to 
 seniority. In point of fact that never has been the practice in the diplo- 
 matic service, or, so far as I know, in any service as regards the higher 
 grades. On the other hand, I think that other things being equal, 
 seniority should be considered in the case of two men who are equal or 
 even nearly equal : I should undoubtedly prefer the claims 6t the senior. 
 
 2280. Selection with due regard to seniority ? — Yes ; that regard to 
 seniority, let me add, becoming less in proportion as you rose to higher 
 grades. 
 
 2282. And with regard to the introduction of gentlemen from without 
 the profession into the higher ranks in it, had you any occasion, during 
 your chiefship, to exercise that duty ? — ^I did not do so. I may say that 
 that is about the most difficult question, as connected with the service, 
 that I know ; and it is, perhaps, of all, the question which most admits of 
 being argued on both sides. On the whole, I think it is best to leave it in 
 this way : that, as a general rule, men who are actually in the service should 
 be entitled to look forward to the higher posts in the service ; but it should 
 be clearly understood that the power rests with the Secretary of State to 
 appoint an outsider if, for any special reason, he thinks fit to do so. I 
 would make appointments within the service the rule, and appointments 
 from outside the exception. 
 
 2283. Then I rather understand, from what you say, that you consider 
 that the block, as it is called, in the service, is of a temporary character, 
 and is more or less unavoidable, and does not call for any immediate or 
 urgent remedy ; is that your opinion ? — Yes ; that is my opinion. The 
 remedy which it calls for is a very simple one ; that is, not unduly to mul- 
 tiply the number of new appointments. 
 
 2294. You are not disposed to say that the salaries are more than 
 adequate now, looking at that state of things? — No; unless you take 
 an entirely different view of the functions of a diplomatist, and the social 
 
28 
 
 position that he should hold, I do not think that you should reduce them. 
 There are places where it is notorious no man can serve without trenching 
 very considerably on his private income. Washington is a case in point. 
 
 2296. I should attach great importance to this ; that English diplo- 
 matists should be in the same general position, and upon the same footing 
 as those of other great European powers. 
 
 2299. Do you think that the American system compares advantageously 
 with our system of having a regular profession ? — No, I think that, other 
 things being equal, a man does best the work which he has been trained 
 and accustomed to do. 
 
 2301. Is the difference in salary more, than compensated, in your 
 Lordship's opinion, by the superior advantage of having a great oflScer of 
 State representing the Crown in the great courts of Europe, or should you 
 say that it was of equal advajitage to the public service that this country 
 should be represented by ministers plenipotentiary or by ambassadors ? — 
 I think that we ought to keep our establishments in that respect generally 
 on the same footing as those of other Great Powers. 
 
 2304. We have been told that there is a hardship upon the chiefs of 
 missions in the system of leave of absence, that those who are at a distant 
 mission particularly can scarcely get the absence which is requisite really 
 to keep them au fait with the state of things here, without sacrificing a 
 considerable amount of their emoluments ; has that point ever been con- 
 sidered by you, and have you ever had such complaints from the chiefs of 
 missions ? — No ; I should look upon a demand of that kind simply as a 
 demand in another form for an increased salary. 
 
 2305. The grievance reduces itself to this, that a post at a great 
 distance from England is more disadvantageous than one near home ; 
 that is undoubtedly the case, and the remedy, I think, is to promote men 
 from the less advantageous posts to the more advantageous posts, if they 
 have done their duty in the former. 
 
 2312. My experience at the India Office did not extend over more than 
 a twelvemonth. 
 
 2313. — The Persian question touches Home politics and Indian politics 
 both ? — Exactly so. Perhaps the strongest argument for transferring it 
 to the Indian service is this — that it is a very out-of-the-way place, and 
 requires, to fill it satisfactorily, acquaintance with Eastern languages and 
 with Eastern habits, which you cannot generally expect to find among 
 English diplomatists, and which you do often find among Indian publiio 
 servants. 
 
 2316. Your opinion upon which you founded that change, in conjunc- 
 tion with Lord Malmesbury, I understand, is one which you still 
 entertain ? — I have no very strong opinion on the subject ; but, on the 
 whole, I am inclined to prefer the system which places Persia under the 
 India Office. I may say that I did not attempt to move in the matter 
 during the time when I was at the head of the Foreign Office, because the 
 change that was made by Lord Malmesbury in 1858 was reversed by our 
 successors in the year following, and it seemed to me that if there was 
 that difference of opinion, it was better to go on with the system as I 
 found it than to have perpetual changes made according to the opinion of 
 every successive Government. 
 
 2320. Unlimited competition relieves a minister from all responsibility 
 whatever. 
 
 2330. Is it your opinion that the present officers connected with 
 missions abroad have their time fully occupied, and do as much work as 
 could be reasonably expected from better paid servants ? — As a general 
 rule, I should say that they do as much work as can be expected from them. 
 
29 
 
 2331. If I understand the honourable member, he is putting it in this 
 way : Would it not be better to reduce the numbers, and to work every 
 indiyidual at all times up to his full powers ? 
 
 2832. The difficulty of that is, that if in a time of calm you are working 
 every man in the service up to the utmost that he can do, you would have 
 no reserve force, so to speak, for a time of emergency. 
 
 2333. But do not you think that in a time of emergency there might 
 be arrangements made under which clerks from the Foreign Office would 
 be sent abroad to assist foreign missions ? — In the diplomatic service a 
 crisis arises so suddenly that I think it would be difficult as a rule to meet 
 it in the way that the honourable member proposfes. 
 
 2337. Does your Lordship think that it is for the public interest that 
 men should go into the service with expectations not having reference 
 to their future utility in connection with the service ? — Yes, I do. You 
 get their services as long as they are in the profession ; you can make 
 them work as you make any other men work ; you get their services when 
 they are wanted as juniors, and when they cease to be juniors they take 
 themselves out of the way and do not increase the pressure for the higher 
 posts. 
 
 2341. Other things being equal, secretaries should be promoted by 
 seniority; but there should be an opportunity of rewarding, by pro- 
 motion, any extraordinary merit ? — Yes, I would wish to qualify that by 
 one observation — namely, that I think when it comes to a question of the 
 higher grades, such as ministers and ambassadors, I should attach very 
 little importance indeed to seniority, and look almost exclusively to the 
 ability of the individual. 
 
 234.4. Applying generally the principle of selection in reference to 
 the lower grades it would merely come to this, that they would rise 
 according to the favour of their chiefs. 
 
 2346. I do not think that a man who shows marked ability or willing- 
 ness to work, has any reason to complain of the present system ; there are 
 many ways in which he may be noticed or put in the way of promotion ; 
 one post is better than another ; at one post there are more opportunities 
 of educating yourself for the highest places than at another ; and I think 
 there would be a wish, as a rule, to put the best man, if you can find out 
 who he is, in the place where he would have the greatest opportunity of 
 training himself to future service. 
 
 2350. With regard to the transfer of secretaries of legation, according 
 to the present system, they are transferred about every two years 1 — I 
 think that is so. 
 
 2351. I should like to know whether you think that that is desirable 
 for the public service ? — It is better for the public service than for the 
 individaal. It comes very hardly upon the individual, because the 
 expenses of removal are often heavy. 
 
 2357. The object of the Minister of Foreign Affairs is to get a number 
 of men as well acquainted as possible with the state of diplomatic affairs 
 throughout the world, and who, by means of that general and varied 
 experience, shall be capable of filling the highest posts. I do not think 
 that if you kept every man during the earlier grades of his service in the 
 same place, they would have anything like the same general and varied 
 experience when their turn came to fill the highest posts. 
 
 2360. You would not consider it necessary in special cases that an out- 
 sider should even have been trained in the diplomatic service ?— ^No ; I 
 think that, other things being equal, it would be a great advantage that 
 he should have been trained in the diplomatic service, but there may be 
 cases in which, for special reasons, it may be desirable to send a- man 
 
30 
 
 outside the profession. In that case I should take very good care that he 
 had under him a secretary thoroughly conversant with local details, and 
 also with the general business of the office ; else the ablest men without 
 experience in the position would be likely to make blunders. 
 
 2367. I must repeat what I said just now, that it is one thing to have 
 an experienced subordinate and to lean upon him, and another to have 
 experience yourself. I should very much prefer that the head of the 
 mission should have the knowledge himself, rather than that he should be 
 compelled to refer to some one under him for it. 
 
 2870. But if the services were amalgamated, having the staff of the 
 two combined, would there not be less difficulty in meeting emergencies, 
 and, therefore, a greater practicability of reducing the staffs of foreign 
 legations to a much lower state than they are in now ? — I can hardly speak 
 with confidence upon that point. I think that the work of a foreign 
 mission, that is to say, the work of a diplomatist, and the work of the 
 Foreign Office, are really essentially distinct ; they are two separate occu- 
 pations, although, no doubt, both have to deal with the same class of 
 subjects. 
 
 2377. Do you not think that some similarity might be drawn between 
 the position of the head of the Foreign Office and the position of the 
 head of a mission abroad? — When I entered the Foreign Office first, as 
 Under Secretary, in 1852, it had been thought expedient not once, I 
 believe, but several times in recent years, to make a change of ministers 
 abroad when a change of Government occurred at home, because it was 
 thought that each Government represented a different policy, and ought 
 to have to support its policy abroad those who were known to sympathise 
 with it. My feeling on the subject then was that this was rather hard upon 
 the professional members of the diplomatic service, and that if you were to 
 have that system at all it would be fairer'and better to make it general j 
 indeed, to make it universal, and to tell a man who went into the permanent 
 diplomatic service that he had nothing to look forward to beyond the post of 
 secretary of legation or embassy, but that the missions were to be open to the 
 competition of Parliamentary men. 1 thought that it would be better to have 
 a general system of that kind rather than to have diplomatists rising in 
 the professional service, and then liable to be removed from one place to 
 another, or suspended altogether from employment, because of their sup- 
 posed political views. But in the last twenty years there has been a very 
 marked change. I think no one can fail to see that the tendency of the 
 present time is very much to limit political patronage, and to encourage 
 men to look for promotion in that branch of the service to which they 
 belong merely as a reward of their professional activity and zeal. Now, I 
 have no doubt that that is the better system of the two. I have no 
 doubt that it is a better thing to have a trained permanent diplomatic 
 service, the members of which expect promotion only as they perform 
 their duty, and who are entirely unconnected with the change of parties 
 at home. I never doubted that that would be the best state of things if 
 it could be established. I did not believe that it was possible seventeen or 
 eighteen years ago, and with the experience that we have had since that 
 time, I do believe it to be possible. 
 
 2379. There are very important considerations in reference to the 
 national policy which our Government may adopt in opposition to the 
 views of a previous Government ; and is it not necessary, under those 
 circumstances, that the Government should be represented in important 
 courts abroad by men who thoroughly sympathise with them in their line 
 of policy ? — No, I do not think it necessary. 
 
 2381. I think that their only wish would be to carry out their instruc- 
 
31 
 
 tions, and the more entirely you separate them from party politics at home 
 the more you put them into the positions of the officers of the army and 
 navy, who have nothing to do with the opinions of the Government in 
 power, but only to execute their orders, the more entirely you will divest 
 them of even the suspicion of partiality. 
 
 2382. I gathered that on the whole you did not express any opinion 
 that the salaries of the higher branches of the service were insufficient 'I — 
 There are one or two cases where it may be a question whether they are 
 not ; Washington is a very strong case. I believe it to be the dearest 
 capital in the world. 
 
 2396. You do not think that, with the other means of information at 
 present possessed by us, attention is paid to details of foreign intelligence 
 in the foreign missions that might be avoided ? — If you mean to ask me 
 whether, in the way of supplying news, the newspapers supply the place of 
 official sources of information, 1 should say, certainly not; they are ex- 
 ceedingly useful, but they are not entirely accurate. It is quite possible 
 that the earliest intelligence of what is passing may reach you in a news- 
 paper, but then you can only take that as current report. The person who 
 sends that is not in any way bound to guarantee it ; he only tells it as 
 what is cuirently beUeved and is probable. You expect your minister, or 
 in his absence your secretary of legation, to take some pains to ascertain 
 accurately not merely the fact that a report is current, but the accuracy 
 of that report. 
 
 2408. Do you not think that, with regard to gaining a know- 
 ledge of public opinion, you can procure it with more correctness by 
 looking at the general discussions in legislatures, and the general ex- 
 pressions of public opinion, than by reports communicated by heads 
 of legations? — No doubt newspaper intelligence upon such subjects is 
 exceedingly useful, but now that nearly every country has a parlia- 
 ment, life would not be long enough to read all the proceedings of all the 
 various legislative bodies of Europe ; and one great advantage of having 
 a kind of precis of these things sent home is, that your attention is called 
 to that which the minister resident considers important ; and you are 
 enabled to see in less time what is worth your reading. I should mention 
 that it is a common practice now, when a speech of exceptional importance 
 is made, to inclose it, cut from a newspaper ; so that, after seeing the 
 minister's abstract, you may, if you please, refer to the original document. 
 
 2406. But I suppose there is no doubt that any fact of great importance 
 would be quite sure to come under the notice of the Foreign Office ? — The 
 honourable member must recollect that a very large part of the politics of 
 continental Europe do not pass in public. If you were on the point of 
 negotiating with some continental government, it would be a matter of 
 very great importance to you to hear things which you are not likely to 
 hear in public ; for instance, if there is some intrigue going on which is 
 very likely to upset the government with which you are seeking to nego- 
 tiate. 
 
 2414. In evidence that we have had before the Committee on a former 
 occasion, an opinion has been expressed that the effect of diplomacy was to 
 preserve the peace of Europe. I should like to have your Lordship's 
 opinion whether it has not been the case that diplomatic action has some- 
 times had an opposite tendency within your own experience ? — I cannot 
 answer that without supposing a state of things which it is hardly pos- 
 sible for me to suppose, in which diplomatic communications did not exist 
 between European countries. 
 
 2423. I do not think that there is any necessity for keeping up a sepa- 
 rate diplomatic establishment at Stuttgardt. 
 
32 
 
 2428. There can be no question, it seems to me, as to the inexpediency 
 of maintaining a large diplomatic staff at Dresden. 
 
 2462. Some allusion has been made to the pay of the English Minister 
 at Washington as being very much out of proportion to the pay of the 
 President of the United States ; does your Lordship know -what the pay 
 of the French ambassador in London is ? — Not to speak with certainty, 
 but I believe it is 10,000/. 
 
 2463. That, I suppose, is rather out of proportion to the pay of a 
 Prime Minister in England ? — Undoubtedly ; that is double the pay of the 
 Prime Minister. 
 
 2479. Some complaints have been made to me, but I may say that 
 they turn not so much upon the question of reduction of salary during 
 the time of leave . as upon the shortness of the leave itself. I believe it 
 is felt as a cause of complaint by ministers resident at distant stations 
 that the two months' leave allowed them out of the twelve is hardly more 
 than sufficient for their journey out and home. The remedy for that, as 
 I conceive, if it requires a remedy, is that they should be allowed to throw 
 together two years' leave into one. As a matter of fact, I believe that 
 has been done sometimes in special cases, but I confess that I can see no 
 reason why that alteration should not be made general, subject, of course, 
 to the discretion of the Secretary of State. 
 
 2481. Mr. Kinnaird.'] I see that very large items have been, at different 
 times, spent for what are called special embassies and special missions ? — 
 These special missions are merely international courtesies, and I cannot 
 deny that they are international courtesies of rather a costly kind. With 
 regard to the question of how far it is right that public money should be 
 spent upon matters of public pomp and show, that is entirely a question of 
 argument, and not of evidence. 
 
 2490. I have no hesitation in saying, if I am asked as to the principle 
 on which appointments should be made, that I think, as a general rule in 
 the diplomatic profession as in every other, it is a good thing that a man 
 should begin at the bottom and work his way regularly upwards. At the 
 same time I do not say that I would absolutely exclude, on the contrary, 
 I have said that I would not absolutely exclude those who are called out- 
 siders, that is to say, men who have made for themselves a position and a 
 reputation for their knowledge of business in other occupations. There 
 may be cases where it is desirable to employ such men in the diplomatic 
 profession, and I think it is very desirable that no rule should be laid down 
 which should absolutely exclude them. At the same time that I say that, 
 I think that such cases should be the exception and not the general rule. 
 
 2500. Would you say that the pressure to get into the consular service 
 is greater than that to get into the diplomatic service ? — On the whole 
 I should. 
 
 2613. Without referring to an individual case, I should say that I con- 
 sider it absolutely essential that the Secretary of State should have the 
 power of judging whether it is or is not desirable, in the public interest, to 
 re-employ a diplomatist who for the time is out of employment. 
 
 2516. 1 would frame the test examination or the competitive examination, 
 whichever it is to be, in such a manner as to admit the largest number pos- 
 sible of those who have received a good general education, as that term is 
 understood in England. I think that the special knowledge may be ac- 
 quired and may be tested at a later stage. 
 
 2521. I think that a university education in itself proves very little. I 
 think that honours taken at the university prove at any rate a certain 
 amount of ability and aptitude for study and for affairs ; but I do not 
 think that it would be desirable to exclude, directly or indirectly, from 
 
33 
 
 the chance of entering the service those who from whatever cause may not 
 have passed through the university. 
 
 2524. I do not think that it is very material whether you find a house 
 for your minister at the public expense, or whether you make him a certain 
 allowance and leave him to find it for himself ; but certainly I cannot say 
 that there is any sound reason why the one rule should be in force at one 
 capital and the other at another. 
 
 2535. During the time that I was at the Foreign Office the retirements 
 and deaths, taken together, were 13, and the number of new attaches 
 appointed by me was four. Therefore, if there is an overcrowding in the 
 profession, I am not responsible for it. 
 
 2546. Mr. Frederick Walpole.'] May I ask you whether generally special 
 requirements at one place abroad do not involve pressure at another, and 
 whether special requirements abroad do not also involve pressure at the 
 Foreign Ofiice at home ? — The latter part of the question I should have no 
 hesitation in answering in the affirmative. 
 
 2548. Sir Charles Wentworth Dilke.'] A suggestion made by Mr. Grant 
 Duff before the Committee of 1861, was that "the Civil Service Com- 
 missioners shall once a year hold an examination, open to all British sub- 
 jects who are desirous of entering the diplomatic service ; that the 
 Civil Service Commissioners should then certify to the Foreign Secretary 
 the names of the 12 candidates who have distinguished themselves most 
 highly in such examination, and that from these 12 the Foreign Secretary 
 shall select the persons who are to be appointed to attacheships during 
 the ensuing 12 months ?" 
 
 2549. I think the objection is, that out of those 12 you wiU turn some 
 8 or 9, or perhaps 10, into the world with what they will consider a very 
 legitimate grievance. 
 
 2552. Does your Lordship happen to know the system that prevails at 
 the Ecole Polytechnique in France ? 
 
 2553. I believe it is almost that scheme, namely, that among a certain 
 group of persons so pronounced eligible, the Government select a certain 
 number, and the others go into the civil professions ? — I admit that a plan 
 like that would exclude aU very stupid and incompetent persons, and to 
 that extent it would be a gain. 
 
 2554. Your Lordship is not disposed to think, on other grounds, that it 
 would be a good system to adopt ? — I have a very decided opinion that if 
 open competition, to which I am not at all on principle opposed, is to 
 become the system of admission to public offices in this covmtry, it would 
 be better to try it, in the first instance, in the civil service at home. 
 
 2556. I think that the rule of moving second and third secretaries from 
 place to place at not very long intervals of time is on the whole a good one. 
 
 2565. I should say that, as a general rule, other things being equal, 
 it was desirable to have in our diplomatic service men of the higher ranks 
 of social life. 
 
 2567. Mr. Rylands.'] I suppose we must not understand that you think 
 that manners and demeanour are necessarily connected with birth? — 
 No, certainly not necessarily with birth. I think that the society in which 
 a man has lived and the kind of general culture he has had, have some- 
 thing to do with manners and social character. 
 
 2568. I do not think that the fact of a man having what is termed 
 high connections is at all material. 
 
 2587. If the private secretary is to be paid, I would rather that the 
 pay went, and that the training which that office gives went, to a member 
 of the regular service. 
 
 2588. Mr. Arthur Russell.J Does your Lordship consider that a Foreign 
 
34 
 
 Secretary can be responsible to Parliament for his foreign policy if he is 
 precluded from choosing his own agents for the higher posts of diplomacy, 
 and they are imposed upon him by some rules and regulations ? — I .con- 
 sider that he would be responsible to Parliament for the policy which he 
 pursues, because that is a matter" which ought to originate, and must 
 originate, with the Cabinet ; with the Foreign Office in the first place ; 
 and if it is in a matter of more than departmental importance, then with 
 the Cabinet as a whole. I do not think that anything that is done by 
 ministers abroad ought to relieve him of that responsibility j but 
 undoubtedly if matters have gone wrong, and he were able to show that 
 they had gone wrong in consequence of the blundering of some minister 
 or ambassador, it would be a very strong point in his defence if he had 
 had no option as to putting that person in the post which he held. 
 
 2591. Mr. Rylands.'} But in regard to the highest posts in the service, 
 the agents of the Foreign Secretary are now to some extent imposed upon 
 him by their being in the position at the time when he comes into office? 
 — That undoubtedly is true. 
 
 2592. Would your Lordship then apply your remark to that state of 
 things, and say that the fact of an important diplomatic agent abroad 
 having been appointed without the consent of the Foreign Secretary, 
 would be any excuse for him ia the event of the management of the diplo- 
 matic affairs of that country going wrong ? — To a certain extent a Secre- 
 tary of State is responsible for every ambassador and minister in the 
 service, because he has always the power of Removing him. At the same 
 time it is well understood that that is not a power which should be 
 exercised, except for very grave reasons ; and I should certainly hold that 
 a Secretary of State was in a fat higher degree responsible for the conduct 
 of a minister whom he had himself appointed than for the conduct of a 
 minister whom he had not appointed, but whom he found there and whom 
 he had merely abstained from removing, 
 
 2693. Does not that seem to furnish rather a strong argument in 
 reference to the most important missions in Europe, that the persons filling 
 those missions should be nominated by the Foreign Secretary actually in 
 power ? — I think that the inconvenience of that would be very great. I do 
 not know who would devote himself to diplomatic work if his tenure of 
 office was to depend upon the stability of a Government at home. 
 
 . 2599. There is no relation in diplomacy more intimate, I presume, than 
 that between a Secretary of State and an Under Secretary of State, or 
 that between a minister and his private secretary. Am I right in saying 
 that your Lordship and Mr. Layard, whose politics differ, both had the 
 same gentleman as private secretary ? — Yes ; and I may take the oppor- 
 tunity of saying that he discharged the duties of that position for both of 
 us in a most efficient manner. 
 
 Me. William Dohgal Christie. 
 2627. I think that there is no reason for raising the rank of our repre- 
 sentatives anywhere in South America. In some cases I think it may be 
 advantageously reduced. 
 
 2631. When I was sent out as minister plenipotentiary to the Argentine 
 Confederation, then distinct from Buenos Ayres, it was done in conse- 
 quence of representations TozAa by an Argentine minister, who was sent 
 over expressly for that purpose, that they would be very much gratified 
 by having a representative of the rank of a minister. But I feel quite 
 satisfied that in Buenos Ayres a representative of the rank of charge 
 d'affaires and consul general is all that our interests require. 
 
 2632. How is it now? — ^Now there is a minister. With regard to 
 
35 
 
 Brazil, Brazil is an empire. The Emperor of Brazil has family relations 
 with European dynasties, and there are one or two ministers sent to 
 Brazil for that reason.* Russia, for instance, sends a minister to Brazil 
 solely on account of family relations. I certainly do not think that 
 there is any need for a change in Brazil in the way of increase of the 
 rank of our representation, but my belief is that a minister plenipotentiary, 
 that is, making it a second class mission, would be ample for Brazil. I 
 am aware that it has been stated by Mr. Hammond in his evidence, 
 which I have read, that representations were made from the South 
 American governments that they would feel very much flattered by having 
 higher representatives than charges d'affaires and consuls general. My 
 experience is that, in yielding to similar representations, we gratify the 
 vanity of the South American governments ; and when it comes to our 
 wanting anything from them, when it comes to our requiring them to 
 dp what is right, we do not find them at aJl disposed to remember what we 
 have done to gratify them. 
 
 2635. You have had to settle no doubt several more or less commercial 
 questions and commercial difBculties when you were in the River Plate a 
 minister there. Should you say that you had no superior advantage as a 
 minister to what you could have had as charge d'affaires ? 
 
 2636. I do not think that I should have had the same advantage then 
 if I had only had the rank of charge d'affaires. 
 
 2639. Mr. William Cartwright.'] Were the offices at Rio?— All the 
 work was done in Petropolis, and there was no occasion for an office in 
 Rio ; the work in Rio was of that nature that I had very seldom occasion 
 to see individuals, and individuals very seldom had occasion to see me. 
 I could get down in four hours on a summons by telegraph ; and whenever 
 it was necessary to go down on public business, of course I went down, 
 and whenever any British subject wanted to see me in Rio, it was under- 
 stood that I was ready to go down. 
 
 2640. Where would you see them ? — At an hotel. 
 
 2644. Do you think that it would be an advantageous plan that the 
 public should provide residences at these missions for their representatives, 
 rather than make an allowance for house rent, or is an allowance the 
 preferable plan ? — ^I think it is most desirable that a residence should be 
 provided at every mission, and that that residence should be in the main 
 furnished. 
 
 2645. And should be the permanent place for the representative of 
 England? — Yes, and that would be an immense convenience. My expe- 
 rience is mostly confined to distant countries and places where it is 
 difficult to establish oneself. If a minister going newly to a country 
 were to find a house in the main furnished, he would be relieved of a great 
 deal of trouble and embarrassment. Of course he is subject to a great 
 deal of unnecessary expense by being put to it to find a house when he 
 first goes there, every advantage naturally being taken of him as a 
 stranger and as a minister. 
 
 2649. Chairman.'] With respect to the question of reduction of staff in 
 the larger missions, do you think that that would be effected in a way advan- 
 tageous to the public? — I wiU answer that question by saying that I think 
 that the system should be entirely changed. My belief is that all the objects 
 of the service could be best attained by first of all allowing every ambas- 
 sador or minister a private secretary. 
 
 * N.B. — There are at Bio de Janeiro, under ordinary circumstances, an 
 English, a French, a Russian, an Austrian, a North-German, a United States, an 
 Argentine, a Portuguese, an Italian, and a Spanish Minister, and a Papal Nuncio, 
 ,ai well as representetives from other South American States, 
 
36 
 
 2657. I believe that in some of the smaller and less busy missions in 
 Europe you may dispense with the secretary of legation altogether, and 
 that the work could be easily done (for instance, in Switzerland, at Stutt- 
 gardt, and at the Hague, by the minister with the assistance of a private 
 secretary and a good clerk. 
 
 2661. With reference to the large embassies, the embassies now in 
 Paris, Constantiuople, and Vienna, and such places, I should say that 
 you might have under the secretary of embassy two sets of clerks. 
 
 2669. I should say in the Brazil mission, though a first-class mission, 
 there is not enough to employ the secretary of legation if he has not to do 
 chancery work, and has not to do copying work. I am far from wishing 
 to subject a gentleman of the age and position that a secretary of legation 
 generally is, to drudgery ; but I say it is better not to have one at all, if 
 you cannot so use him, but much better to have an efficient working man. 
 
 2678. Mr. Kinnaird.'] If I understand you rightly a clerk would render 
 much more assistance, and you could give him direct orders to do a thing, 
 and such orders as you could not give in the same way to a gentleman in 
 the position of attache ? — Certainly, there is a very important difference, 
 that one feels that one can obtain the assistance of clerks on different 
 terms from those on which one receives it from attaches who are sent out 
 by the Foreign Office. 
 
 2690. 1 am of opinion that in Brazil as in Buenos Ayres, and in some 
 European missions similarly situated where there is a distinct consular 
 establishment as well as the mission, the consular establishment should be 
 suppressed, that is, that it should be merged in the mission ; and applying 
 that to Brazil, to which I understand the question refers, a considerable 
 reduction would.be made by carrying out that plan. The ordinary duties 
 of the minister in Brazil (and it is the same with the minister in Buenos 
 Ayres) are duties almost entirely relating to commerce and to the protec- 
 tion of British subjects, and obtaining justice for them in the cases which 
 arise continually, and they are duties which could be ordinarily adequately 
 performed by an officer of the rank of charge d'affaires and consul general, 
 which I believe is the highest rank which is really required for our 
 interests in Brazil ; but apart from that, even if the rank of the mission 
 were not reduced from envoy extraordinary and minister plenipotentiary 
 to a charge d'affaires and consul general, you might still save a great deal 
 of money by suppressing the consular establishment as a (iistinct one, and 
 having all the work done under the staff of the minister and under the 
 general superintendence of the minister, with the aid of a secretary of 
 legation, whose duties would be such as I have before suggested, and who 
 would be called on to do more work than secretaries of legation now 
 ordinarily are. 
 
 2691. I think that in all missions, whether in South America or in 
 Europe, where the capitals are ports, and where you now have a consular 
 establishment distinct from the mission, all the work could be done and 
 should be done by the mission, and that the separate consular establish- 
 ment should be suppressed. 
 
 2697. I do not see why there should be more degradation to a mission 
 in the receipt of fees for passports and for notarial signatures than in 
 having such fees paid to consulates. Something might be got in that 
 way towards paying the expenses of a permanent officer, say in missions. 
 
 2709. I should certainly agree with Mr. Stuart that the salary of the 
 secretary of legation at Buenos Ayres might be raised and should be raised. 
 
 2713. There is no doubt whatever that a minister has not the control over 
 his subordinates which a colonial governor has over his clerks. 
 
 2980. There has been reduction in the character of our mission at 
 
37 
 
 Monte Video, and I wish to ask you whether from your experience of 
 South American missions you approve of that course ? — I think that the 
 change which has been made is a very ill-advised change. But I will go 
 further than that ; I think that the arrangement which has been made for the 
 minister at Buenos Ayres to take Monte Video under his charge is an ob- 
 jectionable arrangement. Monte Video and Buenos Ayres have always 
 been rivals. The Republic of the Uruguay, as it is called, is of an inferior 
 extent to the Argentine Republic. But the English population in the 
 Republic of Uruguay is a very large one ; I suppose there would be a hun- 
 dred British subjects in Monte Video to one in Venezuela. There is a 
 great deal of sheep farming going on there under Englishmen. I think it 
 is very important that Monte Video should have an independent repre- 
 sentative, at least of the rank of consul general. I think that the change 
 which has been made is certainly an injudicious one. 
 
 2999. Mr. Arthur Russell.'] Mr. Gordon complains that the salary at \ 
 Stuttgardt has remained stationary, and that the salary at Berne has been ] 
 raised from 2,0001. to 2,500/. At Berne there is no court, at Stuttgardt I 
 there is ; and I should certainly think that Stuttgardt ought to be placed / 
 on the same footing as Berne. 
 
 3001. You said, I think, that you would maintain the mission in i 
 Switzerland ; you think it important that we should have a minister j 
 there ? — I do not think that we should reduce his rank. 
 
 3002. — Would you suppress the missions at Dresden and Darmstadt? — i 
 As regards Dresden and Darmstadt, 1 would say first that I think there is I 
 a use in those places as training places for ministers. Germany is a great 
 seat of art and science and literature, and 1 think that one of the best 
 objects of our diplomatic representation abroad is to provide international 
 links for the promotion of literaryj scientific, and artistic interests, and all 
 the high purposes of civilisation ; they are not merely for political objects. 
 
 3003. Mr. Butler-Johnstone.'] In your opinion would the tendency of 
 having a permanent staff attached to our missions be to throw the whole 
 work on that permanent staff, and to leave the other gentlemen attached 
 to the mission in a simply ornamental capacity ? — I would have, besides 
 those clerks, only a private secretary for the minister, and a secretary of 
 legation. 
 
 3005. And what future prospects would the private secretary have ? — 
 I think that the private secretary should begin with a salary. He would 
 be the friend of the minister or ambassador, and if he were removed the 
 private secretary would go with him from one post to another, and in time 
 he might be recommended by his chief to the Secretary of State for a 
 secretary of legation. 
 
 3008. Mr.Cameron.] As to these private secretaries, as I understand 
 you, you would have secretaries of legation and secretaries of embassy, and 
 the rest of the work would be done by clerks ; where would you get your 
 secretaries of embassy or legation from if you had no attaches in the 
 regular service? — The private secretaries would be attaches; 1 should 
 also like to see junior Foreign OflSce clerks promoted to be secretarias of 
 legation. 
 
 3009. The private secretary would be appointed by the ambassador or 
 minister, according to your plan? — He would be chosen by the ambassador 
 or minister. 
 
 3011. Besides that, I would revert to the old system, which I think has 
 -its merits, of the Secretary of State choosing from time to time a stranger, 
 taking, say, one who is not an old man, from Parliament. For instance, 
 I was selected myself. 
 
 3022. Our commercial transactions with the different states of South 
 
38 
 
 America are very large, I believe — ^much greater than those of ainy other 
 nation, either in Europe or America ? — ^Yes, I believe they are. 
 
 3023. We have also a large carrying trade with those states — ^that is to 
 Bay, a large proportion of the trade between them and other countries is 
 carried on in British vessels ? — Yes. 
 
 3030. Mt. Holms.'] Would not the danger of having purely commercial 
 questions dealt with by gentlemen trained in politics and diplomacy be 
 greatly increased by your proposition to abolish the consulates and retain 
 the political missions only ? — ^I am recommendingj for economy and for 
 the better and more consistent conduct of business, that in capitals which 
 are ports, the consular establishment should be merged in the diplomatic 
 mission ; that is, that the consular work should be done under the super- 
 intendence and responsibility of ministers who are highly responsible 
 persons, and who ought to be fit for the posts to which they are 
 assigned. 
 
 3031. In most cases those ministers are not acquainted with com- 
 mercial life 5 would they be, therefore, as efficient in such posts as men 
 who were accustomed to commercial life, which our consuls usually are ? — 
 The greatest part of the work would not be done by the ministers them- 
 selves ; the work would be done under the superintendence and responsi- 
 bility of the ministers by trained persons, persons accustomed to the 
 details of consular business, and capable of managing it ; and, again, the 
 ministers, however they may be originally appointed, are persons who 
 have gone through a long training, and if they are not they ought to be fit 
 persons for their posts. 
 
 3035. I said that there are no great questions of policy arising 
 in the South American missions with reference to which you would desire 
 to influence your diplomatic colleagues, as well as the Government itself ; 
 but I am not prepared to say that there are no political questions to be 
 dealt with. There are political questions relating to South America, poli- 
 tical questions between the English Government and the particular South 
 American Government j and with reference to the protection of British 
 subjects, and securing justice for individuals, it is necessary that the re- 
 presentative should not only be a person acquainted with commerce, but 
 that he should be likewise acquainted with questions of international law. 
 You want not a mere merchant, of course I do not speak disrespectfully of 
 merchant.^, but you want a man of general education and attainments, 
 and a man of general ability. You may find such men among merchants 
 certainly, but those men are to be found elsewhere also. You want also 
 persons well acquainted with the language. 
 
 3045. Mr. Eastwick.'] Do you think that if there was no interference 
 on the part of our diplomatic officers the South American Governments 
 would conscientiously discharge their obligations ? — Well, I am afraid that 
 the general rule has been that they are not conscientious in the discharge 
 of their obligations, and therefore it has been necessary to call in the aid 
 of our representatives to assist bondholders to get what was right. It 
 stands to reason that if a British representative is to endeavour to get 
 justice in a foreign country for one, the case becomes very much more 
 important when a large number of British subjects are interested. 
 
 3063. I think it most important that not only the examination for 
 attaches, but that the examination for Foreign Office clerks also, should 
 include the subject of what is called private international law. 
 
 3095. What has been the rank of our representative in Paraguay? — 
 In Paraguay, when I was there, there was a consul ; and President Lopez, 
 *li6^**^er of the Lopez who has just died, was very anxious that we should 
 send him a charge d'affaires. It was a mere matter of vanity on his part, 
 
39 
 
 but he was very anxious that we should send him a chargg d'affaires, and 
 he would do nothing unless we sent him a eharg^ d'affaires. However, 
 there were very few British subjects there, and it certainly was not 
 desirable to appoint a charge d'affaires. 
 
 3097. The public generally do not interest themselves very much in 
 South American countries ; members of the House of Commons have not 
 interested themselves in them, and it would be extremely desirable that 
 there should be more interest taken in those countries. And, certainly, 
 speaking with feeling upon this subject, for I declare that I shudder when 
 1 think of what has been done to humble British subjects in Paraguay, of 
 which -no notice has been taken (I blush for my country almost when I 
 think of it), I think that our relations with Paraguay (I speak delibe- 
 rately) would be found, if investigated by a Committee of the House of 
 Commons, to be a proof of bad management on the part of the Foreign 
 Office. 
 
 3098. Is there any specific recommendation that you would make for 
 improvement of the management of our business in the South American 
 States ? — I think that the great thing that is wanted in the management 
 of our business in the South American States is more continuous attention, 
 on fixed principles, by the Foreign Office to South American couotries, 
 and to our interests there. When I went to Rio, I found claims there of 
 300,000Z., many of them 30 or 40 years old. I was not able to succeed in 
 getting a settlement of them. 
 
 8099. There is an increasing number of British subjects settling in 
 those countries, is there not? — ^There is a great emigration to the River 
 Plate. 
 
 3100. The trade is increasing also, is it not? — ^Yes. 
 
 3101. "Would you havealimit of age or of time when a minister should 
 retire ? have you any view upon that point ? — I should say that if you 
 have a very good and experienced minister or ambassador in an important 
 place, probably within certain limits and certain conditions, he would 
 improvfe with age and experience. I should say that it was most desirable 
 that you should in important embassies and missions profit by the wisdom 
 which experience has given. 
 
 3138. You say that " ia some cases you think the rank of our repre- 
 sentatives in South America may be advantageously reduced?" — Yes. 
 
 3139. Have you ever represented that when you were in South 
 America ? — I had no call to represent it, and, of course, I have given very 
 much more consideration to the subject with reference to coming forward 
 here to give evidence. When I was resident in Buenos Ayres 1 was 
 originally appointed with the title of ehargfe d'affaires and consul general, 
 and I was unexpectedly sent out with the rank of minister ; and I have no 
 hesitation in saying that when there was a separation between the Argen- 
 tine Republic and Buenos Ayrea, which itself gave us am opportunity of 
 settling a great number of questions which I did settle, I was assisted by- 
 the superior rank, as the Chairman suggested the other day ; but ordi- 
 narily the rank of charge d'affaires and consul general would suffice for 
 any South American Mission. 
 
 8141. You stated in answer, to Question 2636 : " I think that with 
 those governments when you want anything special done it might be, and 
 probably would be, sometimes desirable to send out a special representa- 
 tive with a higher rank ;" it takes some time to get to South America, 
 does it not ? — ^You get to Rio in less than a month. 
 
 3179. You can imagine circumstances under which a secretary of 
 legation could go to the Foreign Office of the country when it is not de- 
 sirable that the minister should go ? — Tes. 
 
40 
 
 3180. And in a so-called constitutional country he may be called upon 
 to make reports of what goes on in the chamber? — ^I think it most 
 desirable to have efficient secretaries of embassy and legation. 
 
 3183. Mr. Rylands.'] I understand the practical effect of your evidence 
 to be, that whilst you think that secretaries of legation might do a very 
 large amount of work in the mission, practically they are not of use when 
 the chief of the mission is present, that they do not render themselves 
 generally useful? — That I should say is the general practice, that by 
 mutual consent the secretary does not assist the minister beyond the 
 commercial reports. 
 
 The RisHt Honourable Charles, Viscount Halifax. 
 
 2725. Chairman.^ The last transfer of the Persian mission from the 
 Indian Department to the Foreign Office, we have been told, took place in 
 1859 ? — Yes. The Committee are probably aware that it had been trans- 
 ferred to the Foreign Office from the Board of Control and the Court of 
 Directors some time in 1834 or 1835, and had remained so till the year 
 1858. That transfer took place with the entire concurrence of the Court 
 of Directors, a body who naturally looked mainly to the interests of India. 
 When I became Secretary of State for India, in the summer of 1859, I 
 found that the Persian mission had been transferred in the year before to 
 the India Office. I had a good deal of conversation with Lord Russell, who 
 was then Foreign Secretary, upon the subject, and he and I agreed that 
 there was no sufficient reason for having upset an arrangement which had 
 worked, I believe, to the satisfaction of all parties interested for upwards 
 of 20 years, and as the transfer had been made so recently, we thought it 
 far better to put the mission back on the footing on which it had been ever 
 since the year 1835 or 1836. 
 
 2726. As I understand, you had beea President of the Board of Control 
 during the period when it was upon that footing ? — ^Yes, for two years ; 
 from the autumn of 1852 tiU the spring of 1855. 
 
 2727. And your experience then, as at the head of Indian affairs, was 
 that that arrangement worked satisfactorily ? — I never heard any complaint 
 against the satisfactory working of that department under the Foreign 
 Office after the transfer of 1835 or 1836. 
 
 2730. I entirely concurred with Lord Russell that it was far better 
 that the direction of the whole of the diplomatic service should be in one 
 hand, rather than in two ; and that inasmuch as there is a good deal of 
 connection between Turkey and Persia, and Russia and Persia, th« same 
 person who wrote the directions to our ministers at Constantinople and St. 
 Petersburg should write the directions to our minister at Teheran, on those 
 subjects on which the three countries were interested. 
 
 2731. I presume that when you were President of the Board of Control, 
 you were always consulted in reference to all important matters that related 
 to Persian diplomacy ? — In all matters in which India might be affected ; 
 and, indeed, much more generally than that, because action against Persia 
 must almost certainly take place on the Indian side. 
 
 2732. Then I wish to ask you about your experience of the result of 
 the transfer during the seven years subsequently, when you were at the 
 head of the Indian Department ; did it work satisfactorily ? — Certainly. 
 
 2733. You see no ground for transferring it back again to the India 
 Office ? — I do not recollect any difficulties of any sort or kind occurring ; 
 if I wished a representation made to the Persian government, I wrote to 
 the Foreign Secretary, who made the representation which I desired to the 
 Prasian government, or to the Persian minister here. 
 
 2734. Were you consulted at all with regard to the personnel of the 
 
41 
 
 Persian diplomatic corps with a view of suggestLng the Indian officers who 
 might be of use there ? — I think I was, but I do not remember ; I am 
 pretty sure that I gave an opinion about the appointment of one Indian 
 servant who was employed in Persia. 
 
 iJ735. At any rate, you would have been ready to form an opinion and 
 express one at the request of the Foreign Secretary ? — Certainly ; any 
 request of that kind of course would be a private communication to me, 
 and would not appear officially in any way. 
 
 2741. I understand, then, your Lordship to say that you stiU have a 
 very distinct opinion that the arrangement which you made in 1859 is the 
 right arrangement, and one which ought to continue ? — I think that the 
 arrangement made in 1835, and which was disturbed for a year only, in 
 1858, is the best arrangement that can be made. I think it is far better 
 to have the entire direction of the diplomatic service in one hand. I do not 
 see the least reason to suppose that the Indian interests are not sufficiently 
 represented or taken care of by the Persian minister appointed by the 
 Foreign Secretary, who, of course, in all matters connected with India, 
 acts very much with the advice and the concurrence of the. Secretary of 
 State for India. 
 
 2742. I presume that before that transfer was made. Lord Palmerston's 
 opinion, too, was expressed; and he approved of it ? — Entirely. 
 
 2758. You do not think that public interests would be advanced by the 
 employment exclusively of people of Indian experience in Persia ? — No ; 
 I think it very desirable that there should be in Persia a person, supposing 
 such a person could be found, with a certain knowledge of Indian matters ; 
 but I do not think it at all indispensable. 
 
 2766. Supposing that any question of Persian diplomacy having refer- 
 ence to Indian interests to arise, that question, in the iirst instance, would 
 be considered by the Indian Department in conjunction with the Foreign 
 Department, before the minister in Persia received his instructions? — It 
 seems to me to be precisely the same case as if a question arose between 
 Canada and the United States. In all probability the Colonial Secretary 
 would communicate with the Foreign Secretary before any instructions 
 were given to our minister at Washington to act in any matter concerning 
 the interests of Canada. 
 
 2767. But we have been told that a very large proportion of questions 
 connected with Persia have reference to Indian interests rather than to 
 European interests ; I daresay your Lordship will not dispute that ? — 
 There are a great number of questions between Persia and Turkey, in 
 which India has no interest at all. With regard to the other Great Power 
 to which I have alluded, namely, Kussia, no doubt the action of Russia 
 upon Persia may materially affect India; but it is hardly an Indian 
 interest, as apart from the interest of this country, because if Kussia was 
 to assail India in any way, of course it would entail a war with this 
 country as well as with India. 
 
 2770. You would not be disposed to anticipate that the Foreign 
 Office would refuse to defer to the opinion of the India Office in certain 
 questions affecting the Persian mission upon which the India Office and the 
 -Foreign Office differed ? — In that case the question must be referred to the 
 Prune Minister or to the Government, and the decision of the Government 
 must be decisive for both. 
 
 2778. And you still think that the fact of the judgment of the Foreign 
 Department,- with their traditions, having arisen out of their experience of 
 European courts, does not render it imdesirable that they should control 
 under similar regulations the representative at an Eastern court like 
 ;Persia? — It is not true, I conceive, that the oply experience of the 
 
42 
 
 Foreign Office is in dealing with constitutional or European courts. As 
 far as the tradition and experience of the Foreign Office, handed down 
 from one Secretary of State to another, goea, they have had to deal with 
 a great number of Eastern nations, as weU as European, and it seems to 
 me that the knowledge that has accumulated in the Foreign Office would 
 apply both to the one and to the other. 
 
 2780. Sir Henry Rawlinson states that the regulations of the Foreign 
 Office are not applicable to our mission in Persia ; that, I think, you do not 
 agree with ? — I do not agree with Sir Henry Kawlinson in that respect. 
 
 2783. Diplomatic agents acting under the Foreign Office might have 
 to interfere in questions relating to India, and they can do so much more 
 easily and more TeadUy if the Persian mission is under the same direction 
 as themselves, than they could if it were under a separate direction? — 
 Our minister at Persia must on many occasions communicate with the 
 Russian minister, the French minister, and the Turkish minister. The 
 conduct of those ministers would be guided by the directions from their 
 own courts, which may more or less be influenced by the action of our 
 ministers at those courts, and then rthere will be a greater accordance, I 
 think, between the conduct of our ministers in aU four courts (Russia, 
 Turkey, Persia, and France) if the directions to our ministers there 
 proceed from the same source. 
 
 2784. That does not imply at all necessarily that you are to pursue the 
 same system in Persia, or that you are to have the same sort of agent 
 there as in other courts? — Certainly not. My opinion is simply this, that 
 the guidance of a great department is far better in one hand than in two. 
 
 2812. But supposing that it could be shown that, we will say, nine- 
 tenths of the whole correspondence had reference to India, and that only 
 one-tenth had reference to Russia and Turkey, would not your Lordship 
 then be inclined to think that the management of our Persian relations 
 had better be under the Indian Office? — 2S!o, I do not think that the 
 question of who are the best people to manage our diplomatic relations at 
 Teheran entirely or mainly depends upon what the questions are. 
 
 2813. I believe I am right in saying that the ministers in Persia, and 
 the greater part of the staff, have been Indian officers, with the exception 
 of Sir Charles Murray and Mr. Alison ? — I think they have. If I 
 remember right, one of the most serious differences with the Persian 
 court arose under Sir Henry Willock, an Indian officer. 
 
 2814. It did not come to an actual rupture ? — No. Nor should I be 
 prepared to admit that the rupture in the time of Sir Charles Murray was 
 owing to his not being an Indian officer. 
 
 2817. The Council of India, of course, contains some persons? (of 
 acquaintance with Persia). 
 
 2818. Take Sir Bartle Frere ; I do not know that Sir Bartle Frere has 
 any knowledge of the court of Persia or the state of feeling in Persia. 
 He was governor of Bombay, and knows what business arises between the 
 Bombay merchants, for instance, and the merchants of the Gulf of 
 Persia ; but he has no knowledge of the Persian court, and I do not even 
 know that he speaks Persian. 
 
 2819. We will take Sir Henry Rawlinson and Sir George Clerk? — Sir 
 Henry Rawlinson was at Teheran, and knows the language. Sir George, 
 too, probably, speaks Persian. 
 
 2820. He has been employed on the frontier, has he not ? — ^He has 
 never been employed beyond the boundaries of India, I think. 
 
 2826. And, in point of fact, supposing that Persia was transferred to 
 the India Office, there would be no very great disadvaptage ? 
 
 2827. I do not say that any great evU would happen from it. I think 
 
43 
 
 that the other is by far the best arrangemMt, and I can say no more than 
 that. 
 
 2828. I am strongly of opinion that the Government in India should 
 have as little to do beyond its own frontiers as it can possibly have. It 
 has quite enough to do within them, and the less it meddles beyond, the 
 better. 
 
 2832. Then, I would ask, is it right that those who pay for a mission 
 should have the direction of it or not ? — ^I think that India pays far too 
 highly towards the Persian mission now. 
 
 2834. I always thought it perfectly fair that the payment should be, 
 as I always hoped, and expected it would be, about half-and-half. 
 
 28'40. Take the case of China ; there has never been any question of 
 an Indian officer being sent to China, and yet the interests between India 
 and China are many times as great as those between India and Persia. 
 
 2847. I think it is best that our minister in Teheran should be equal 
 to cope with the ministers of the other European Powers who are resident 
 there ; and I think that, upon the whole, that object is more likely to be 
 attained by having a minister under the Foreign Office there than by 
 having an Indian servant sent from. India. 
 
 Mr. Theodore Walrond. 
 
 2935. Mr. Otway."] A young man might be perfectly competent, I 
 conclude, to pass the examination before the Civil Service Commissioners 
 for an attache, and thereby qualify himself, and yet be totally deficient 
 in moral qualities, and in tact, and in reticence, in short in all the quali- 
 ties that would fit him for the diplomatic profession ?^S'o candidate 
 could get the certificate of the Civil Service Commissioners who was 
 totally deficient in some of the moral qualities, because one of the points 
 on which they certify is that his character is such as to fit him for public 
 employment. But as to tact or reticence, or the peculiar qualifications 
 required for diplomatic duties, I do not think that our examination is the 
 very least guarantee of those things ; and it is for that reason, it seems 
 to me, that if there were such a scheme, it is essential that the Secretary 
 of State should have the freest choice among the candidates presented to 
 him. 
 
 2936. Indeed, you stated before that there are peculiar qualifications 
 for that service which you thought, with your knowledge of the universi- 
 ties (which I know to be very extensive) and public schools would prevent 
 many men from competing for it ; because they would be aware of their 
 own deficiency in those respects ? — ^Yes. 
 
 3297. Chairman.'] You were asked some questions the other day with 
 reference to forms of competition for the diplomatic service. 
 
 3298. What is it that you would recommend ? — -Although that plan is 
 founded on a true principle, namely, that of letting every one who is fit 
 for the situation come forward and show what he is worth, without 
 needing to be backed by interest or influence, and then letting the Secre- 
 tary of State select on his own responsibility out of a number of persons 
 reported to him as intellectually fit the one that is best qualified, it seems 
 to me hardly time yet to apply that system to the diplomatic service. The 
 system of open competition has not been tried to any considerable estent 
 with regard to the ordinary branches of the civU service, and certainly the 
 diplomatic service is not the one in which one would like to see the experi- 
 ment first tried ■ and therefore if I were called upon to submit a scheme 
 of competitive examination for the diplomatic service, it would not be 
 open competition, but limited competition, that I would suggest. 
 
 3299. In what way would you limit it? — ^The limitation that had 
 
44 
 
 occurred to me as the most obvious and natural was to have a competitive 
 examination at a stated period every year, but to admit as competitors 
 only persons who were nominated either by the existing Secretary of State 
 or by any of his predecessors ; I think that in that way you would have a 
 sufficient number of candidates, and you would have the very same 
 guarantee that you have now, that no one came in who did not possess 
 all those nameless qualifications which the Secretary of State is the best 
 judge of. 
 
 3392. Mr. W. H. Gladstone.'] Have you any reason to believe that the 
 fact of the second examination being severe deters people from prosecuting 
 their diplomatic career? — ^I have not had any reason to think that. At 
 the same time, if I might be allowed to say so, it has always seemed to me 
 that it would be a very great advantage if that second examination were 
 brought a great deal nearer than it is to the first examination ; it hangs 
 over the heads of men after they have got into the practical work of their 
 profession, and I have certainly heard some of them say that they regard 
 it as an incubus which they would be glad to get rid of. It is rather hard 
 for an examiniag board to be caUed upon to pronounce by examination 
 
 ' whether a young man is or is not fit for the duties of his situation; after 
 he has been performing the duties of that situation for a good many years. 
 
 3393. Mr. Sclater-Booth.'] May you not even go further, and say that 
 the examiner might be quite wrong in the view he would take ? — 1 think 
 it quite possible. 
 
 3394. Mr. Eastivick.'] If you had a very high examination for the 
 people whom you seem to expect to bring into the service, might you not 
 dispense with the second examination altogether? — Some of the subjects 
 required for the diplomatic service are rather peculiar, and out of the line 
 of young men's ordinary reading, as, for instance, international law and 
 political economy, which are hardly studied widely, even at the univer- 
 sities ; and on that ground, I suppose, it is that those subjects have been 
 separated from the first examination ; but it has always seemed to me 
 that if the second examination came six months after the first that would 
 be an ample interval, and I should not myself see any great objection to 
 the two examinations being passed together. 
 
 The RictHT Honoubable George William Frederick, Earl op 
 Clarendon, K.G., G.C.B. 
 
 3416. Chairman.'] Should you be disposed to extend the limited com- 
 petition which exists in the Foreign Office to the diplomatic service ? — ^I 
 see no objection to it, but I do not see any reason for it. 
 
 3417. You are satisfied with the quality of the men you get under the 
 present system ? — I am, as I think it works very well. 
 
 3419. Do you find that there is as much pressure to get employment in 
 the diplomatic service as there is to get employment in the Foreign Office 
 at home ? — No, I do not think there is. 
 
 3423. The answers to the circulars addressed by your Lordship to Her 
 Majesty's ministers abroad convey a general impression of universal 
 complaint, at all events among those in the lower grades, that the salaries 
 are inadequate ? — I cannot wonder at it. 
 
 3424. You think that those complaints are well founded ? — ^I do in- 
 deed. 
 
 3432. Should you be disposed to retain the system of second examina- 
 tions, as it is now, for these gentlemen ; we have had a suggestion that 
 it might be desirable to have one examination after a certain interval of 
 service, which should be a pretty stiff one, instead of two examinations ; 
 has that been suggested to you? — That has been suggested to me, and 
 
45 
 
 there are a great many opinions for and against it. I think that if you 
 ■were to subject a young man of 19 or 20 to a very severe examination 
 upon entering into the service, you would be requiring almost more from 
 him than he could give you. It is pretty severe as it is, judging from the 
 number of persons who do not pass. I think also that the second exami- 
 nation may be necessary ; but even that has its disadvantages, because if 
 a man spends four or five years in service abroad, and gives his attention 
 to the business of his mission, particularly if it is an important mission 
 where there is much to do, he cannot keep up that sort of knowledge that 
 would be required for the second examination ; and yet I am not prepared 
 to say that the two examinations would not be better than a very severe 
 one at first. 
 
 3433. Does your Lordship attach much weight to examinations of men 
 who, to a certain extent, have embarked in a practical career in life ; or 
 do you think that the actual experience of affairs and the results shown of 
 a man's own powers in the work of an office are a better test of what 
 he is capable of ? — I think that that is a very important question, and I 
 should say that, for the diplomatic service, I should rely more upon the 
 knowledge that a man acquires at an embassy and legation than upon the 
 second examination. Providing that he is an intelligent man (and that I 
 should consider to have been tested by his first examination), I should not 
 attach such very great importance to the second examination. I think 
 that the fact that he acquires a large amount of practical information (I 
 suppose him to be a capable man), the reports that he is required to make 
 and the studies that he must pursue in the service, render a second exami- 
 nation not so necessary as might be supposed. 
 
 3434. Then I gather that you do not attach such very great value to 
 the second examination ? — Not very great value. 
 
 3436. We have heard something, I may say a good deal, of the slow- 
 ness of promotion in the service now ; that is the case, I suppose? — ^There 
 is no doubt about it. 
 
 3437. There is almost a stoppage of the rise to the higher ranks ? — I 
 must certainly say that it is a stagnant profession. In the first place it 
 seems to be a very wholesome profession, because nobody dies ; and, in 
 the second place, it must be a pleasant profession, because nobody resigns ; 
 and therefore there is a good deal of stagnation. Every friend of mine I 
 recommend not to put his son into the diplomatic profession. Although I 
 have appointed seven, which may appear to be a great number in eighteen 
 months, it has only been to supply the urgent requests of the different 
 missions, which have been short-handed. I may take the instance of 
 this recent unfortunate case in Greece. The secretary had been removed 
 to another place, his successor had not yet arrived, poor Mr. Herbert 
 had been captured, the secretary of legation was still at Constantinople, 
 and during the first three days of that melancholy occurrence Mr. Erskine 
 was entirely alone to do everything, to cipher and decipher. And I can- 
 not give the Committee a better idea of what must have been the nature 
 of Ms employment than by stating that some of his despatches, although 
 they were deciphered by some of the ablest men in the Foreign Office 
 (and I suppose there can be no better decipherers anywhere), took four 
 or five hours to decipher. I say that for such cases it is necessary to 
 have what I may call a stock in hand ; and a gentlieman who had just com- 
 pleted his period of service in the Foreign Office was sent out to assist 
 him. 
 
 3438. Then I gather that you do not think that the subordinate staff 
 generally speaking, of the diplomatic service could be very well reduced ? 
 — ^Indeed I do not think it could. 
 
46 
 
 3439. We have had it suggested to us that there might be more 
 economy, and also an increase of efficiency in the service, if the heads of 
 the higher missions had a private secretary, who was not permanently in 
 the diplomatic service, but was always present, and would assist the head 
 in despatching confidential business ; is that a practical suggestion of any 
 value, in your opinion ? — I ought to say that it is a practical suggestion. 
 But I do not see the absolute necessity of adopting that plan. I think it 
 quite necessary that the head of a mission should be able to avail himself 
 of the services, in that sort of capacity, of some person attached to the 
 mission. For instance, it is quite impossible that he should copy his own 
 letters, and see all the people who call upon him ; and in a legation where 
 the business is active and heavy you cannot expect that the minister 
 should be able to do all that for himself. I think that he ought to have 
 that sort of assistance that really is necessary for the prompt and punctual 
 transaction of business, and that he ought not to pay it out of his own 
 pocket. I think it is a very fair assistance to get from the staff of the 
 legation or embassy, but it is also a reason why you cannot make the staff 
 of these legations much lower than it is. Of course, in former times, when 
 the diplomatic service was not a regular profession, and when the Secre- 
 tary of State could appoint just as many persons as he pleased, and any- 
 body that liked to go to Paris or Florence was appointed an attach^, it 
 was a different thing, but now that only the number of attaches or secre- 
 taries are appointed that is thought to be necessary, if one of the 
 gentlemen attached to the mission is employed by the minister for the 
 necessary business of the mission, it is another reason for not reducing 
 the staff. 
 
 3440. Have there been complaints with respect to secretaries of lega- 
 tion, that their time was too much devoted to Reports instead of the 
 usual business of the mission ? — ^I do not think I ever heard any complaint. 
 I think that the Land Tenure Reports are very instructive and satisfac- 
 tory, and a great addition to our industrial literature. I do not believe 
 that all the chambers of commerce in this country combined, or any other 
 machinery that could have been devised, would have been able to command 
 the means or the ability of producing such reports as those. 
 
 3441. I rather think that those reports were first instituted by your 
 Lordship ? — The original reports were. 
 
 3442. And the result has been highly satisfactory to you, as I under- 
 stand? — It has been highly satisfactory to me, and I am sure that those 
 reports have been highly useful to the mercantile community ;' they could 
 have got the same knowledge from nowhere else. Each secretary of lega- 
 tion takes up a particular subject, say wine in Portugal, cotton-spinning in 
 Switzerland or in Germany, or in other countries where they enter into 
 active competition with us, and so on. I say that there are no other means 
 by which information, which it is essential to our own manufacturing 
 interests to have, could be as readily obtained. 
 
 3443. I rather gather from what you say that you think that the diplo- 
 matic service more than makes a return to the public for its pay by that 
 kind of information? — ^It is really not because I am connected with it that 
 I say so, but I do think that they are valuable public servants ; I think 
 that they perfectly earn their keep, so to speak. I can assure the Com- 
 mittee that if at any time I thought that any economies could be introduced 
 in respect to the diplomatic service, I should be the first person to introduce 
 them ; but I do not think that by stretching that desire for economy very 
 far, you secure the efficiency of the service. I think that the sort of 
 general disposition that there has been on the part of the public and the 
 press, resulting, simply, from want of information, has been (I must say 
 
47 
 
 naturally) very discouraging to the members of the diplomatic body, and 
 I think they will be just as well satisfied as I am that the realities of their 
 service and of their work should be brought out in much the best way in 
 which they can be brought out, the. only way that we in England care 
 about, namely, by examination, before an impartial Committee ; and there- 
 fore the appointment of this Committee was to me a matter of sincere 
 satisfaction. 
 
 SiU. You think that they are moderately paid, hard worked, and very 
 useful ; may I sum up your evidence in that way ? — I think so. 
 
 3447. I think it very desirable indeed that anybody who is employed in 
 the diplomatic service, particularly in the higher branches of it, should not 
 be too long absent from England. 
 
 3448. For the sake of the public it is desirable you think that there 
 should be proper facilities given for his returning home periodically ? — 
 Yes, I think so. If a man has been four or five years abroad, living always 
 in the same place, running the round of the same ideas, it is impossible 
 that that man should not become rusty, and you compel him to become 
 rusty if you do not give him facilities for leave of absence. 
 
 3449. Mr. Rylands.'] Your Lordship was mentioning, in reference to 
 the nomination of unpaid attaches, that you considered that the system 
 worked perfectly well. Still the fact is, I presume, that the nomination 
 depending upon the will of the Foreign Secretary, there is a considerable 
 amount of pressure for the patronage which so rests in the Foreign Secre- 
 tary's hands ? — I could not say that there is a great deal of pressure ; I 
 think that people are beginning to be a little afraid of the diplomatic 
 service, beca,use of the very'great expense that it entails. 
 
 3451. Does your Lordship think it a desirable course tohave unpaid 
 oflScers connected with the diplomatic service ? — To tell you the truth, I do 
 not like unpaid service at all. I think that gratuitous service is never as 
 good as that which is paid, and where, in return for the payment, the 
 public has a right to expect efiicient service. 
 
 3452. I suppose you would consider that if an arrangement were made, 
 under which the services of attaches were paid, then it would be a proper 
 course to take to open to wider competition the appointments to the diplo- 
 matic service ? — ^I could not say that. I think that the diplomatic service 
 is a very peculiar one, and you must look to a little more than a man's 
 mere knowledge of French or German ; you must look to his complete 
 respectability and to his fitness for forming a member of the minister's 
 family ; that is what an attache ought, at all events, to be fit for. I do 
 not see that there would be any more advantage in open competition than 
 there is under the present system. There is not the least distinction now 
 of classes or otherwise. Anybody that wishes his son to enter the diplo- 
 matic profession wiU not meet with any difficulties of that nature ; but I 
 think that if you had open competition you would be liable to lower the 
 standard which you want in the diplqmatio service. 
 
 3454. Of course open competitiou would mean making it open to the 
 whole world, and I do not think that under that system you would get 
 the sort of men that we have hitherto had and that we have found to suc- 
 ceed in the profession. I think that it would lower the stamp of the ser- 
 vice, and that we should feel the effects of that in the countries to which 
 these persons were sent. 
 
 3455. A suggestion thrown out by Mr. Walrond the other day was, 
 that a certain number should be named by the Secretary and the Ex- 
 Secretaries of State, and he adopted a suggesi^ion of mine that a certain 
 number shpvfld be named by the heads of universities ; that the nominees 
 should then be presented for a limited competition, and that out of that 
 
48 
 
 number the Foreign Secretary should select for appointment ; that is a 
 mode of limiting competition ; does your Lordship see any objection to 
 that ? — ^No, I do not know that I see any particular objection to it, but I 
 do not see the smallest advantage in it. I think that you have a system 
 now which works just as well as that would work, and unless you can point 
 out any patent evils arising from the system as it exists now, I should be 
 unwilling to change it. I do not think that you would get any better men 
 by throwing the responsibility off the Foreign Secretary as you would if 
 that system which you suggest were adopted. Speaking as the Secretary 
 of State, and as the head of the Foreign Office, I should rather prefer 
 being myself personally responsible for every appointment, and blamable 
 for every appointment that was made and did not answer the requirements 
 of the public service, to having it left open to me to be able to shake off 
 from myself all the responsibility on the ground that the persons had come 
 into the service by competitive examination. 
 
 3456. Proceeding to the position of the under secretaries of legation, I 
 suppose we are correctly informed that progress in their profession depends 
 upon seniority, and that if there is no very gross case of impropriety or 
 inefficiency, practically there is no reward for any extraordinary ability on 
 the part of the subordinates of missions ? — I think you have stated the case 
 vei'y correctly. Now that diplomacy is a regular profession, and you 
 require men to qualify for it, and put them through a severe examination, 
 they acquire certain rights in the profession, and unless you can show that 
 some one man is pre-eminently fit for a post, I think that the adoption of 
 seniority is the only way by which you can inspire a feeling in the service 
 that'they are dealt with fairly. That, of course, makes the advance very 
 slow. I cannot but consider the profession as a stagnant one. 
 
 3458. But this.stagnation of which you speak must, as a matter of course, 
 very much destroy the energy of the members of the profession ? — No doubt. 
 
 3459. A system which offers so little expectation for the future must, 
 in the very nature of things, be an unfortunate system ? — Yes. 
 
 3460. If a system were adopted whieh would lessen materially the 
 number of juniors in the line of promotion by providing at every one of 
 the missions an officer not in the line of promotion, who would take off a 
 large amount of the ordinary routine work of the legation, might that 
 not assist very materially in removing the block in the service ? — Of course, 
 if there were fewer young men appointed as attaches, the block in the way 
 of promotion would be lessened. But the means which you propose, I 
 think, would be extremely doubtful. 
 
 .- 3461. I think people have very little idea of what the expense of livuig 
 ; abroad is. A man who is employed at a legation, and who has a certain 
 amount of confidential work, you must suppose to be in the category of 
 I gentlemen, otherwise he would not be confidential. If he is not in the 
 category of gentlemen, I think you could not employ him, and you could 
 not expect the others to associate with him. I think that such a system 
 would produce heartburning in the missions, and really would not be 
 attended with any economy, because you could not give a man of that sort 
 less than the others live upon. 
 
 3464. You would consider that notwithstanding the discouragements 
 of the service occasioned by this block, it is better to maintain the number 
 of juniors in the line of promotion rather than relieve them by taking off 
 their shoulders the lowest class of work, and leaving it to be done by a 
 lower class of clerks ? — ^I do not mean to say that that might not be rather 
 better for the juniors in the diplomatic service ; but I confess that I look to 
 the public service rather than to the interests of the juniors, and I believe 
 that the public service would suffer by that. 
 
49 
 
 3465. In reference to the position which the juniors of a mission 
 occupy towards the chief of the mission, I should like to have your Lord- 
 ship's opinion whether the heads of missions ou^ht not to have more control 
 over their juniors and have an opportunity of expressing an opinion as to 
 their conduct, and as to the propriety of their promotion ? — I may say that 
 as long as we take seniority cseteris parihiis to be the rule of promotion, I 
 do not see that the foreign minister can well interfere with advantage. I 
 think that if he was, as foreign minister, to say, " I will have Mr. A. or 
 Mr. B. here ; I think that he is eminently qualified for the post from his 
 knowledge of the language, and so on," that might be beneficial, because 
 there are certain times where seniority ought for the public good to be set 
 aside, and where a man conscientiously believes that A. is better than B. 
 for a particular post, I, for one, although in point of business I should 
 desire to adhere to the rule of seniority, would say that his duty to the 
 public would compel him to set aside seniority in such a case. 
 
 3467. Without the least disrespect to Lord Lyons or Lord Cowley (for 
 most assuredly better heads of missions never were), I should say that any 
 insubordination, any want of discipline, any incompetency of service, was 
 entirely to be attributed to the head of the mission. 
 
 3470. We are discussing this question with a view to see how far the 
 present system secures harmony, and I ask whether, in your experience, 
 it is not the fact that occasionally there is a good deal of unpleasant feeling 
 and quarrelling in missions, and differences between the heads of missions 
 and the secretaries of legation ? — I really cannot say that that has come 
 under my knowledge. There are differences in human nature ; there are 
 some natures that are as oil to other natures that are as water, and they do 
 not mix well together ; but, as a general rule, I have known very little un- 
 pleasantness indeed. 
 
 3471. Still I understand that in your judgment the public service must 
 suffer unless there is an harmonious working of a mission between the 
 chief and the subordinates of the mission? — If the chief of a mission 
 imderstands his position, and understands the amount of authority vested 
 in him, and knows the power at his back, he can perfectly weU maintain 
 discipline. 
 
 3472. With regard to the appointments to missions, is it the rule of the 
 Foreign Secretary to appoint the senior secretary of embassy to a vacant 
 mission ? — THo ; I do not think that there is any positive rule about that. 
 I think that the Secretary of State, as I have said cseteris paribus, would 
 always be disposed to take the person who is senior, because amongst the 
 different missions there is not that very great difference in the requirements 
 and aptitudes, if I may use such an expression, of the persons to fill thein, 
 as would make it necessary to give the go-by to that principle of seniority 
 which, diplomacy now being a profession, ought to be observed ; but I 
 should never hesitate to set aside that practice of seniority, if I thought it 
 for the public good to do so. 
 
 3473. It has been stated in the House of Commons, and complaint has 
 been made in the House of Commons, that there are certain gentlemen at 
 present on pension who have filled the office of minister abroad, and whose 
 appointment to any mission would save their pensions to the State ; may I 
 ask your Lordship whether there is any sufficient reason for not appointing 
 diplomatic pensioners, who from their age and health are fit for employ- 
 ment? — ^That is a matter upon which I think the Secretary of State is per- 
 sonally responsible. There is no great injustice done to the individuals, 
 because they would not gain much more if they were employed than they 
 gain by remaining on the pension li^t. I do not wish to say anything that 
 is personal or disagreeable to anybody, but I reserve to myself the right, 
 
 D 
 
50 
 
 under a perfect sense of responsibility, to be called upon to account for its 
 exercise when necessary, of judging what is best for the pubUo service, and 
 if I think that the public service would gain more by continuing to give a 
 pension to a gentleman than by re-emplojdng him, I do that upon my indi- 
 vidual responsibility. 
 
 3474. There was a recent vacancy which was flUed up by a gentleman 
 who had not been in the diplomatic service for a number of years, and who 
 was not in the line of promotion to that post ; is not that rather going out 
 of the general rule? — It has always been considered a rule of the service 
 that when an under secretary has served well and for some time, and he is 
 appointed to a mission, he goes out ad eundem. 
 
 3862. Mr. Rylands.'] Does not your Lordship think that it would be a 
 desirable state of things that the Foreign Secretary should be at liberty to 
 appoint men of pnbfic character and position in connection with the 
 political parties at home as heads of missions ? — I think so. 
 
 3863. Lord Wodehouse, in the evidence before the Diplomatic Com- 
 mittee of 1861, expressed a very strong opinion that it was desirable that 
 the heads of the principal missions abroad should occasionally, and not 
 unfrequently, be appointed outside the mere line of diplomatic promotion ; 
 is that your Lordship's view ? — I do not see that that is necessary ; an 
 occasion may arise when you may think that a certain man is particularly 
 fitted for a mission, and you would then take him, though he was an out- 
 sider ; but, csBteris paribus, I should prefer to take some one in the service. 
 And, with respect to the discontent that Mr. Layard's appointment created, 
 I do not think that it was borne in mind that it is a practice of the Foreign 
 Office (I do not mean to say that it is very frequency resorted to) that an 
 imder secretary who has served well and for some time goes out as a 
 minister. There have been several instances of that. 
 
 3864. That I quite understand ; still the dissatisfaction does exist, and 
 I presume the knowledge that the Foreign Secretary has of such dissatis- 
 faction would have a tendency to limit appointments of that character? — 
 Certainly. 
 
 3866. With regard to the small missions in Europe, has your Lordship 
 considered whether there might not be an economy by the suppression of 
 some of the appointments -which now exist? — By the small missions in 
 Europe, I apprehend that as usual Stuttgardt is particularly alluded to ; 
 that generally paves the road as regards the small missions. I am not 
 favourable to the abolition of that mission. I have considered it very 
 much, and I do not think that it would be expedient. I think that it 
 would be taken as an affront to the sovereign of the country ; I think that 
 it would be taken generally in Europe as a proof that we cared less for 
 the interests of Germany than we do, and I think also that it would put 
 a large portion of the British public who reside in Wurtemberg, at 
 Carlsruhe and other places, to considerable inconvenience. 
 
 3867. Stuttgardt and Munich, being both in South Germany, do you 
 think that in both cases it is desirable that we should maintain the 
 mission ? 
 
 3868. Does not your Lordship think that it might be sufficient to have 
 charge d'affaires at these two points, the one at Mimich being under 
 the minister at Vienna? — ^No, I do not think that that would be worth 
 while. 
 
 3869^. But is it not the fact that whatever might be the impression 
 produced by this line of policy there, it is well understood that the policy 
 of England is not to interfere to so great an extent as was formerly the 
 case in European politics ? — Certainly, we are pursuing now a policy of 
 
51 
 
 non-intervention. But if you think that that has diminished our moral 
 influence I think that you are greatly mistaken. With regard to the 
 moral influence gained by a community of interest and desire to promote 
 the good of all, and particularly to promote peace, that moral influence 
 ■would be gained by the residence of an efficient man in.the country, and 
 it is far more valuable and useful to this country, and makes it more 
 respected, than all the threatening in the world. 
 
 3870. I am quite sure that I should subscribe to every word that your 
 Ijordship has stated with reference to the moral influence of this country 
 in connection with the missions abroad. I wish to ask your Lordship 
 whether you see any objection to an arrangement being made under which 
 one of the secretaries of legation should undertake consular duties in those 
 capitals, so as to avoid the necessity of two separate appointments ? — 
 There are some capitals (take St. Petersburg, for instance), in which the 
 consular duties are so constant and of such various kinds that I do not 
 think that you could get one attache to do the work. Supposing that the 
 attach^ is necessary in the mission or embassy, he has tolerably full work ; 
 and I am quite certain that if he had to do the consul's work, the notarial 
 work, and all that sort of thing, would be constantly behindhand. 
 
 3873. I think that your Lordship had very much to do with the 
 arrangement under which secretaries of legation were required to present 
 reports upon trade and commercial matters, and other points of interest? — 
 There are three or four reports that I could mention as specially valuable. 
 
 3874. There can be no doubt about that; but does your Lordship 
 think that there would be an advantage in these reports going through the 
 heads of missions, and in fact the heads of missions being to some extent, 
 and to a great extent, made responsible for the reports ? — I think that if a 
 man collects the information, and writes the report, he is the chief person 
 in that work. I cannot say that I have ever asked heads of missions 
 whether they take interest in these reports, but I have not the smallest 
 doubt that they do. ,1 should think they go hand in hand, although the 
 secretary, who is the man that collects the information, and is responsible 
 for its correctness; and writes the report, is of course tl^e person chiefly 
 interested. But those reports are always sent home by the minister ; I 
 have no doubt that no minister ever sent home a report without reading it 
 first with the secretary of legation or embassy, because anything which he 
 thought was incomplete or incorrect he would notice. 
 
 3875. We may, at all events, take it that it is your Lordship's opinion 
 that that is the course that should be taken by the heads of missions, so 
 as to prevent any introduction of matters that ought not to be published ? 
 — I cannot have the least doubt that it is done. 
 
 3895. Speaking not of myself, but of any man who happens to be in the 
 place that I have the honour to fill, I may say. that that minister, from the 
 very nature of the duties attached to his position, is less under the eye of 
 a vigilant public and press than the head of any other department, and 
 there are confided to his honour, his judgment, and his discretion (perhaps 
 I ought to add his honesty), the most momentous international and State 
 affairs, and by any laches of his, by any failure of his in any of these 
 qualities, he might involve the country in the greatest trouble. Well, in 
 that man who happens to be the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Parliament and 
 the public are in the habit of confiding until they find that he is unworthy 
 of trust ; but there is a sort of notion that he cannot quite be trusted 
 with money which is not brought into the public accounts ; I hardly know 
 why he should be trusted on the largest affairs, and mistrusted on the very 
 small ones. I do not think that the pubUo suppose that he puts this, 
 
52 
 
 money into his own pocket, but I think that there are vague notions 
 abroad of mysterious acts of corruption, of paying people more than they 
 ought to have, and that sort of thing. I really am quite glad of this 
 opportunity of saying to the Committee, just as if the Committee were a 
 Baron of the Exchequer before whom I make a formal and solemn state- 
 ment, that 1 have applied the money as it ought to be applied, that I can 
 most solemnly declare that all those notions are entirely without foun- 
 dation. 
 
 3900. In reference to the recent abolition of the Foreign Office agents, 
 that, I think, was a voluntary act on your Lordship's part, as the head of 
 the Foreign Office Department ? — I do not think it is quite fair to say that 
 it was a voluntary act of mine. There was that sort of manifestation of 
 opinion by certain portions of the press, and by the House of Commons, 
 that made it quite clear to me that that system could not be maintained. 
 There was a great feeling against it. I consider that it was a system 
 which worked extremely well, and one which all those concerned in it, 
 that is to say, all the ministers and consuls, will regret the loss of ; and 
 I think that it was sacrificed to a prejudice ; but a prejudice is often as 
 strong iii determining action as a well-founded opinion. There had got 
 abroad an opinion that the agents had some influence in the making of 
 appointments, and in the distribution of patronage. I can say that there 
 never was a more completely unfounded opinion than that. 
 
 3903. Since the time that we have had a more regular representative 
 there (at Rome) he has corresponded directly with the Foreign Office, 
 and received instructions from the Foreign Office ; but I have not the 
 least hesitation in saying that his position is very inferior to that of the 
 regularly accredited diplomatic corps, and that inconvenience results from 
 that ; and I think that, considering we have so many interests now affecting 
 Roman Catholics, it would be very advisable that we should have a regu- 
 larly accredited representative at that court. 
 
 3906. Viscount Sandon.'] With regard to the salaries at the present 
 moment of the diplomatic service, may I ask whether, virtually, the salaries 
 of the whole service have not been reduced rather than increased, owing to 
 the great increase in the cost of living on the Continent ? — I am very much 
 obliged to you for putting that question, as it gives me an opportunity of 
 saying that I think that they are very much underpaid. You must 
 remember that the greater part of these salaries were fixed thirty, forty, 
 or fifty years ago. There is nobody at home or abroad who is not aware 
 of what the increase of the cost of living is. Some of the reports that I 
 hear from honourable men, who are perfectly incapable of saying what is 
 untrue about the cost of their living, are really very distressing. I gave 
 myself as an instance, the other day, when I stated that I spent a thousand 
 a year more than my salary all the time that I was in Spain, even when I 
 was a bachelor. But it is not everybody who can do that. The greater 
 part of our diplomatic servants are very poor men ; there are scarcely any 
 of them who have any private fortune, and there is a constant conflict 
 going on, I know, with those men as to how far they can venture to impair 
 their own property, in order to do what is their public duty. Now I do 
 not think that the public is bound in the least to so pay a man that he 
 may lay by a great deal, but I think that the public has no right to expect 
 to be served by a man at his own expense. I should not ask for any 
 person in the diplomatic or consular service one farthing more than what 
 would cover not only what is indispensable, but his proper liabilities. I 
 would not ask for anything, in order that he should be allowed to lay by, 
 although perhaps a man, aiter being forty or fifty years in the service, has 
 Bome right to look to having earned something for his children ; but I do 
 
53 
 
 think it is hard that a man should be asked to spend his own private 
 fortune and that of his children to enable him to perform his public 
 duties properly. 
 
 3908. Is it your Lordship's opinion that it would be desirable, with a 
 view to the advantage of the public service, that there should be a revi- 
 sion of the diplomatic salaries ?— I think that it would be only just ; I 
 should like very much indeed to see certain salaries in the diplomatic 
 service, and those of some unfortunate consuls, too, iacreased, but I 
 should not like to have that done without a proper revision, and I should 
 wish that the public should be perfectly aware why they sanctioned such 
 a large increase ; I should decline to do it myself. 
 
 3909. It would be for the benefit of the public service to revise the 
 salaries ? — Yes, I think so. 
 
 3910. I rather understand your Lordship to say that under the present 
 system you get exactly the class of men into the diplomatic service that 
 you want for the pubEc service ? — I think so ; 1 do not know how you 
 could improve it. 
 
 3912. Your Lordship appears to think that any change in the present 
 system might prejudice the public service? — I think so. 
 
 3917. With regard to the effect of the telegraph on the relations of 
 the Foreign Office with the missions abroad, does your Lordship think 
 that the responsibility of our ministers and ambassadors at the different 
 courts is so much diminished, that it would be for the benefit of the 
 country to put in those posts men of less weight, and men less well paid 
 than at present? — No, I do not think that the telegraph has made any 
 such changes desirable. I do not see that it diminishes his labour the 
 least in the world, and the answers that he gets from the Foreign Office 
 are more or less concise too, and it requires, perhaps, more judgment, 
 more discretion, to act upon a telegram than when an instruction is fully 
 set out in a despatch. 
 
 3918. Therefore you require ministers who are able to take quite as 
 much responsibility upon themselves now under the present system as 
 formerly ? — I think so. 
 
 3919. With regard to the value of our diplomatic service generally, is 
 it not the case that what may be called the greatest feats of diplomacy are 
 those that are unknown to the world ; for instance, where great wars have 
 been quietly prevented, or the commencement of evil in the relations 
 between countries averted ; that, in fact, the country frequently, from the 
 very fact of its successes, has not known the greatest successes of its 
 diplomacy ? — I think that that is perfectly accurate ; things have been 
 done that exactly fulfil the conditions that you have mentioned ; evil may 
 be averted, and good may be done, but the causes, the mainsprings of 
 that, remain concealed, and very desirable it is that they should do so. 
 
 3920. Therefore, when a country is considering the case of its diplo- 
 matic service, and whether it is well to keep it up, it ought to take inta 
 account that the most valuable diplomatic action tt can never be aware of, 
 but it must take on trust very much the beneficial nature of diplomacy, 
 because from the very nature of things its most valuable operations are 
 unseen ? — That is perfectly true. 
 
 3921. Mr. A. Russell.'] Do you think that, considering the increasing 
 importance of our relations with the United States, there would be any 
 advantage in giving the rank of ambassador to our minister at Washing- 
 ton ? — ^If any wish was manifested by the United States Government to 
 confer the highest diplomatic rank upon their representative, I should say 
 that the question would certainly be considered by Government, and be 
 submitted to Parliament ; and expressing my own opinion, I may say that 
 
54 
 
 if it were agreeable to the United States, I think that it would be very 
 agreeable to ua. 
 
 3927. Mr. W. Lowther.'] Do you consider that the salary of our minister 
 there is large enough ? — I am quite certain that it is not, I mean not large 
 enough to do what is required of a British minister there in the way of 
 hospitality. 
 
 3928. The chief of amission has a right to take away drafts or copies of 
 his own despatches. Those despatches contain information which he has 
 obtained from his official position. Those papers become his private 
 property, and that of his executors if he dies. Has your Lordship ever 
 known any inconvenience arise from the publication of official papers of 
 that sort which have come into private hands ? — I do not remember any 
 cases of that just at the present moment, but I have not the least doubt 
 that there have been such. 
 
 8929. With regard to commercial business being carried on at the 
 Foreign Office, I suppose that there are often times when commercial 
 questions are very much mixed up with poKtical questions ? — Yes, 
 certainly. 
 
 3930. And therefore if the commercial correspondence were handed 
 over to the Board of Trade, they would have to be continually applying to 
 the Foreign Office in order to consult them ? — Yes ; there could not be a 
 better receipt for confusion. 
 
 3935. Mr. Kinnaird.'] Is it the right thing to do to accept a post when 
 it is offered ? — Certainly ; Mr. Canning's rule was that if a man refused a 
 post offered to him he got no other ; he treated him exactly as you would 
 do the colonel of a regiment who refused to go on service. 
 
 3947. Mr. Eastivick.'J I would like to ask your Lordship, considering 
 the great disadvantages of the service in some countries, for instance in 
 Japan, or we will say in some parts of South America, the bad climate, the 
 great expense of Kving, and the danger to Hfe, whether some compensation 
 might not be given in the shape of reducing the amount of service for a 
 pension, or in other ways, say increasing the salaries ? — If a man is sent 
 to an unhealthy place in South America, or, as of late, in Japan, to a place 
 where he has a chance of being wounded, I think that that man is entitled 
 to some consideration. I do not think that our service is what you may 
 call liberal ; I do not think that they take the circumstances of a man and 
 his position into sufficient consideration. 
 
 3948. I was looking particularly to the case of Japan, and the case of 
 Caraccas, where three of our charges d'aifaires have died in succession 
 within the last six years, one of them of yellow fever; and where the 
 expense of living is considerable, and where the town has been three times 
 taken, twice with very great slaughter, which of course was a considerable 
 risk to property and to life ? — ^Yes, to say nothing of earthquakes. 
 
 3949. Then I would ask your Lordship, with respect to South America, 
 whether it might not be better to make those officers who are diplomatic 
 officers with the rank of consuls general and chargd d'affaires, ministers 
 resident, and thereby give them a claim to a rather increased pension ? 
 — I quite agree with that, and if I had been able to do it, I think that it 
 would have been a very proper thing to give theni an increase of salary. 
 But now, in ChUi and Peru, our agent and charge d'affaires is in a lower 
 position than his European colleagues, both in rank and in pay. It is 
 mortifying to him individually and he is distressed at it, and I think that 
 it takes away from his consideration. I should have been very glad indeed 
 to have done what you suggest, and have only been deterred by the in- 
 creased expense that it would be. I quite agree with you on the point. 
 
 3954. I should also like to ask your Lordship a few questions with 
 
reference to Persia ; I would ask your Lordship whether you would not 
 think it desirable for us, as much as lay in our power, rather to keep 
 Persia within the Indian circle than to bring it into the European circle of 
 politics ? — No, I think it would not be for our interest. 
 
 3955. Your Lordship is of opinion that it would be better to bring it 
 into the European circle ? — Certainly, I have no doubt about that ; I wish 
 I had, for I should be very happy to relieve the Foreign Office of the 
 Persian Mission. 
 
 8956. Your Lordship is clear that it should be under the Foreign 
 Office ? — Quite so ; I have not the least doubt about it, and what is more I 
 think that the tendency of things will make it more important every day 
 that it should be so. 
 
 3957. But if it should be more agreeable to the Shah, would your 
 Lordship's opinion then be changed ?— Not a bit ; but that " if " is simply 
 a very high improbability. I am quite sure it would not be more agreeable 
 to him. I do not think that his relations with the Indian Government 
 have been of such a kind that he would be predisposed to renew them. 
 
 Mr. R. Shaw-I The same witnesses who gave evidence that there was a 
 block suggested at the time, as a mode of obtaining relief, that the junior 
 members in the diplomatic service should be drafted into the consular 
 service ; could your Lordship give us an opinion on that point ? — I do not 
 think that there would be any advantage in that. 
 
 3964. You think it desirable that the two services should be kept 
 separate? — ^Yes. 
 
 3971. With reference to the stagnation in the promotion in the diplo- 
 matic service, do you think that it is slower than the promotion in the Army 
 or Navy ? — ^I really do not know that it is ; I am not very familiar with 
 their pay or chances of promotion in the Army or Navy ; but certainly, 
 particularly as regards the Navy, I may say, having many friends in it, 
 that I never knew any one of them who had not some grievance of that 
 sort to complain of. 
 
 The Honoueable Thomas John Hovell Thurlow. 
 
 - 3487. Chairman.'] Have you considered whether you would continue in 
 the profession with reference to this point of the length of service in the 
 subordinate grades ? — ^I have quite made up my mind to leave the service 
 at the expiration of my present leave, for I see no prospect of rising in it. 
 
 3488. You have come to that determination on account of the very 
 distant prospect of promotion in the profession ? — Entirely on that account. 
 
 3492. You must in your experience have become familiar with a good 
 many members of the same standing as yourself ; does the feeling prevail 
 amongst them that you give expression to on your own account? — I 
 should say that the feeling is universal, and I do not believe that many of 
 them would remain in the service if they could see their way to a living 
 out of it. 
 
 3501. Are you of opinion that the number of second and third secre- 
 taries and attaches could be diminished fully in proportion to the diminu- 
 tion of the missions ? — ^I think that some plan ought to be hit upon for 
 reducing them, so that you might have the same number of second and 
 third secretaries as you have of first secretaries ; then the promotion would 
 be regular throughout the profession. ^ 
 
 3505. Then you would contemplate making it quite a close profession, 
 and having no outsiders ? — ^In^that case it would be so. 
 
 3506. Then how would you provide for retirement at the top of the 
 service; would you wait for death vacancies, or incapacity, or would you 
 superannuate them ? — ^I think that the ■ French have a system of super- 
 
56 
 
 &nnuatlon after a Certain age, and I think that would be a very good plan 
 for us to adopt. 
 
 3512. Is there any reason why a minister or ambassador at seventy 
 should not be quite as efficient as at fifty ? — ^Not the least. 
 
 3513. Then it would rather be by way of keeping up the current of 
 promotion that you would recommend such a system ? — ^Yes. 
 
 3516. What would you do in the meantime to clear the present block? 
 How would you get rid of the extra second secretaries who are now encum- 
 bering that rank 'I — I think that some of them might be drafted advan- 
 tageously into the consular service, for instance, as vacancies occurred ; or 
 they might be induced, perhaps, to take all sorts of other patronage, at 
 the disposal of the Government, in its different branches, to which they 
 might be considered to have some claim. 
 
 3518. There are a great many posts at home that the Government 
 have to dispose of which a great many first and second secretaries would 
 be glad to take, and which they would be quite competent to fill ; aU sorts 
 of inspectorships, and other things of that kind. 
 
 3520. But assuming that there is not a larger subordinate staff now 
 than is requisite for the public service, what would you do in regard to 
 the work which these gentlemen have hitherto been doing ? — In the first 
 place, I would establish a chancelier, such as they have in most of the 
 continental diplomatic services, a system which works well. 
 
 3548. Chaifmttn.^ Is it your considered opinion that with the establish- 
 ment of a chancelier at the embassies, and at Washington, and at Florence, 
 and the use of copying presses, you could amply supply the want of power 
 which might be created by taking off eleven second secretaries from the 
 present staff V — Certainly ; I consider that those who remained would be 
 much more willing and quite equal to take any additional share of work 
 which might accrue to them in consequence of such reduction ; but I do 
 not believe that the additional share of work would be anything very 
 excessive. 
 
 3552. Have you any suggestions to make as to the rate of pay ? — To 
 begin with, I would certainly pay the unpaid attaches ; I would give them 
 a small remuneration, lOOZ. or 150Z. a year, not so much because I consider 
 that they want the money as to entitle the State to their best work. I 
 think that the present system is very demoralising, under which a young 
 man enters at twenty-three or twenty-four, and serves for an uncertain 
 number of years unpaid ; he considers that the State has no right to his 
 labour very often. 
 
 3562. I would have embassies at Paris, St. Petersburg, Constantinople, 
 Berlin, Vienna, Florence, and Washington, all great centres of correspon- 
 dence. The ambassador, I think, should have 10,000/. a year and a house. 
 
 3563. Do you attach much importance to the providing of a house ? — 
 I attach the greatest importance to having an embassy house. 
 
 3564. You mean that it would be desirable for the public service? 
 —Yes. 
 
 3565. In what way? — In the prestige that it gives to the ambassador 
 to have such a house for his reception the moment that he arrives, instead 
 of having to live at an hotel, and perhaps dine at the table d'h6te. 
 
 3571. Will you proceed to state your scheme? — ^The first secretaries 
 of embassy should have, I think, l,000i. a year. There should be at each 
 embassy two second secretaries at 500/. a year each, and one third secretary 
 at 250/. There should be two attaches at each embassy with 100/. a year 
 a-piece, and one chancelier, with a maximum of, say 500/. The first- 
 clasa missions, I think, should be at Madrid, Brussels, the Hague, Copen- 
 hagen, Rio, Pekin, Teheran. I would have a first secretary on 700/., a 
 
57 
 
 second secretary on 4002., and a third secretary on 250Z., at each of those 
 missions. Then, at the second-class missions, which would be Stockholm, 
 Munich, Stuttgardt, Mexico, Berne, Lisbon, Buenos Ayres, Athens, and 
 Yeddo, I would hare a first secretary on 6002., and a third secretary on 
 2502. There would further be charges d'affaires, as there are at present, 
 at Tangiers, the Hanse Towns, Lima, Santiago, Monte Video, Caraccas, 
 Port au Prince, Bogota, Central America, Quito, Coburg, Dresden, 
 Rome, Darmstadt, Alexandria, Bucharest, and Tunis ; and those chargds- 
 d'affaires should be appointed from the first secretaries of embassy or 
 legation. 
 
 3674. With respect to the interchange of service between the Foreign 
 Office and the Foreign Diplomatic Service, have you any opinion on that 
 point ? — I think that it would be highly desirable to increase the number of 
 instances of such transfers. 
 
 3599, Mr. Rylands.'] Do you not think it desirable that promotion 
 should be other than routine ; that it should have some reference to the 
 capacity of the members of the service ? — When a man has attained the 
 rank of first secretary, I think that then the promotion ought to go by 
 merit ; but I think routine promotion up to the rank of first secretary 
 should be the rule. 
 
 3600. You think, then, that there is no objection to the juniors 
 in the service feeling that no activity or intelligence that they may 
 possess can advance their promotion in any way? — ^No; I think, on the 
 contrary, it is just as well that the subordinates should feel that nothing 
 that they can do can advance their promotion up to the rank of first 
 secretary. I think that too much zeal would be a very dangerous thing 
 among attaches, paid or unpaid. 
 
 3605. You, of course, would object to the appointment of Mr. Layard 
 as an outsider, I mean taking your principle and not making it a personal 
 matter? — I consider that appointment very hard upon the service. I con- 
 sider that there are many men in the service who have better claims, and, 
 perhaps, equally good qualifications for the purpose of the minister at 
 Madrid as Mr. Layard ; and that is the Mght in which it is regarded by the 
 service. 
 
 3606. Your idea is, I think, that, under no circumstances, ought there 
 to be placed at the head of a mission any man who had not gone through 
 the subordinate grades of the service ?— As a general rule, most certainly 
 that is so. 
 
 3609. There would be no reason to prevent a first secretary of legation 
 remaining a first secretary of legation for 40 or 50 years, as is the case now ; 
 gentlemen in that position have been systematically passed over. A man 
 at the top of the list of first secretaries has been constantly passed over for 
 years and years, and I would have it so still, if the Secretary of State did 
 not think that he was fit to be promoted. 
 
 3610. I wish it to be understood that my reason for not promoting a 
 second secretary by merit is, that I consider it would create a very bad 
 feeUng in chanceries in the conduct of the business to have these young 
 men attaches and third and second secretaries, who are at work in the 
 same room, all trying to cut out each other in their daily work, each trying 
 to distinguish himself unduly, and so on, to the detriment of his col- 
 leagues. 
 
 3621. And you propose by your plan stOl further to render this system a 
 close and cramped system ? — ^I do not consider that the closeness of the 
 system has worked ill ; quite the contrary. I think that there are as good 
 men in the diplomatic service in the higher ranks as you will find in the 
 higher ranks of any other service, and they have the benefit of long 
 
58 
 
 experience with foreigners and of speaking foreign languages, and they 
 are aufait at their work. That is not generally the case with outsiders. 
 In Mr. Layard's case it is different ; he had been in the Foreign Office 
 many years before, and had served at Constantinople, and you may say 
 that he is well qualified ; but his is an exceptional case. 
 
 3631. Mr. Rylands.'] There are, of course, two ways of looking at 
 appointments of this kind ; one is the point of view of the public interest, 
 and the other the point of view of the service. Of course you wiH admit 
 that it is to the public interest that the Foreign Secretary should have the 
 greatest possible discretion in the appointment of men who are the most 
 suited to these very important missions abroad? — Of course. 
 
 3633. You are quite aware that the Foreign Secretary may have to act 
 in matters of this delicacy, on grounds that he could not properly be asked 
 to state to the public ? — Certainly. 
 
 3640. Is there not a difference in services? You can quite understand, 
 for instance, that an admiral or a commander exposed to great physical 
 hardships might be unfit for his duty at seventy, while a minister, not 
 exposed to hardship, but whose experience was invaluable, might be at 
 his prime at seventy ; cannot you see that distinction? — It might be so 
 certainly, but I can equally conceive that it might be the other way. 
 
 3641. But there you would come again to the discretion of the Secretary 
 of State?— Yes. 
 
 3655. You think you would object to any means under which a larger 
 opportunity of selection could be afforded, and under which the competitive 
 principle would come in ? — You might apply to the diplomatic service the 
 competitive principle, which I believe now appUes to the Foreign Office, 
 where, on a vacancy occurring, there are three nominations, and the best 
 of the three gets the appointment. Now, in the diplomatic service we 
 have only a pass examination, a certain test, and I think that it would be 
 a good thing perhaps to make it competitive in the same way as for the 
 Foreign Office, but not more than that. 
 
 3661. You say that the profession is entirely one for rich men ; but 
 may not that, to some extent, arise from the mode in which the profession 
 is carried on in other countries? — Well, I think that it would be a great 
 Inistake to try to isolate our English diplomatists from their colleagues on the 
 Continent. At Paris, and Vienna, and Berlin, and these other places, no 
 doubt, the more society that an English ambassador can see, and the more 
 he can see of his colleagues, and the more lavish he can be, up to a certain 
 point, the better. 
 
 3662. You think by that means he produces a certain amount of 
 influence?— I think he produces a certain amount of influence, and he 
 obtains a great deal of information which he otherwise would not obtain. 
 
 3663. You think that, in consequence of that sort of social intercourse, 
 he obtains information of a valuable character to this country, which he 
 would not obtain in any other way ? — ^I think so. 
 
 3664. Would not that sort of information have reference chiefly to 
 the private views or intentions of members of the Government, or of 
 persons of influence in the Court? — Very likely; and I think that those 
 bits of private information, as a rule, are much more important than all 
 the public despatches that they have access to. 
 
 3684. Did you, in the experience which you have had in connection 
 with the missions, ever find any complaint made by the heads of missions 
 as to the fact that the juniors did not go much into society,? — Yes. 
 
 3686. Can you give any reason why they did not go into society ? — In 
 the case of Paris, I should say that the great thing that keeps the juniors 
 out of society is the hard work which they have all day at the embassy ; 
 
after copying seven or eight hours at the embassy, and getting off the hag 
 just in time for a late dinner, they do not feel inclined to take the trouble 
 to dress and go into society ; they prefer to spend the evening otherwise. 
 
 3687. You think that they are tired with over- work ?— Certainly, as 
 regards Pans, it is the work of the embassy in the afternoon and evenings 
 that keeps them out of ball-rooms. 
 
 3697. And you think that the success of Russian diplomacy with the 
 United States of America has been in consequence of the great display 
 caused by the profuse expenditure of the Eussian diplomatic officials? — I 
 say that it has been very much furthered by that. I think that you can 
 hardly over-estimate the value of a liberal diplomatic expenditure. 
 
 3699. You are aware that the United States do not spend money pro- 
 fusely ?— I believe, in fact I know, that it has been under coneideration 
 more than once of late years in America to establish a close diplomatic j 
 service on the exact footing of our own; and the Committee <rf Foreign I 
 Eelations at Washington has been occupied for the last two years in trying / 
 to draft a plan of service of the same kind as our own. That shows that / 
 they are not quite satisfied with what they have got. 
 
 3707. You have said, in reference to an embassy house, that it was 
 desirable that there should be a residence for the ambassador, because it 
 gave him more prestige ? — Yes. 
 
 8708. Which is consistent with the opinion which you are now ex- 
 pressing, that diplomatic pomp and prestige are more important now than 
 they were in former years ? — I think that they are fuUy as important ; 
 they certainly are not less important. 
 
 3711. Mr. Cartwright.'] From your knowledge of the United States 
 would you think that a good deal depends on the pomp and display of our 
 legation at Washington ? — I consider it of very great importance that we 
 should have a handsome establishment at Washington ; and I think that 
 we ought to have the same establishment there as we have at aU. our 
 other embassies. 
 
 3759. Mr. W. Lowther.'] Do you think that on the whole the represen- 
 tatives of the United States enjoy the same position at foreign capitals as \ 
 the representatives of other countries ?— I should say that owing to the > 
 system that is followed in the conduct of the United States diplomacy, 
 they most certainly do not occupy so good a position as our diplomatists 
 abroad. 
 
 3761. Do the United States ministers know generally what is going on 
 in the country ? — 1 should say that they are not by any means as well 
 informed as our ministers are. 
 
 3766. With regard to the gentlemen at the embassy of Paris, have they 
 to work after dinner sometimes ?^-Very frequently aU night. I know that 
 when I was there an uninterrupted night's rest was a very great rarity ; 
 we used always to have to leave our addresses, and we used to be sent for 
 at three or four in the morning or at any hour, to decipher telegrams. 
 
 3769. Have you observed that amongst the subordinates in the diplo- 
 matic service, any man who has acquired a special knowledge of any lan- 
 guage has been rather promoted over the heads of others? — No, I have not 
 observed that. 
 
 3778. Mr. Otway.'] I learn by the paper which you have handed to the 
 Chairman, that you are about to leave the service ? — ^At the expiration of 
 my present leave. 
 
 3779. Will you allow me to say that I learn it now, with regret, for the 
 first time ? I see that you have propounded a scheme for having seven 
 ambassadors, at 10,000t a year each; and so many ministers, I think, at 
 6,000/. a year. Now I see that the whole diplomatic service, taking 
 
60 
 
 ambassadors and attach^, and all together, amounts to 125 persons, 
 speaking roughly ? — Yes. 
 
 3780. Are you aware of any profession or any service in the world 
 which would admit of so many prizes among 125 men as seven prizes of 
 10,0002. a year, and so many at 6,000Z. a year, to be confined exclusively to 
 these 125 members; or has such a profession ever been contemplated? — 
 I should say that the Indian Civil Service is much better as regards pay 
 than our diplomatic service. 
 
 3781. But with regard to the number of prizes, are there anything like 
 seven posts in India of 10,000/. a year? — Much more than that number. 
 
 3782. You must exclude, of course, the governors of presidencies? — 
 Yes; but taking the members of council and the Ueutenant-govemors, 
 you have a great many more than that number. 
 
 8783. And also you must look to the proportion of men in the Indian 
 Civa Service? — ^The Indian Civil Service proper is not at aU a large 
 service. 
 
 3786. You object to any gentleman, not one of these 125, ever being 
 appointed to an embassy or mission ? — I consider that the interests of the 
 pubKo service would be best promoted by the appointment 6i a person 
 from the 125. Of course, if the Secretary of State can say that he has no 
 man of the right sort available in that number, there must be one taken 
 from outside. 
 
 3801. 1 observe that you have in your evidence, to which I have listened 
 very carefully, spoken of the convenience of inxiividuals, but above the 
 convenience of individuals you must always put the public service, must 
 you not ? — Yes, certainly ; but I maintain that the public service is not 
 furthered by having a discontented service, and I think that our diplo- 
 matic service is becoming a discontented service, and that the pubho 
 service will suffer from that ; as it is now the attaches on first joining 
 receive no pay, and do as little work as they can ; and in the same way 
 now you have a larger staff than I think would be necessary if they all 
 worked with a wiU, which they would do if they saw a chance of getting 
 on. Now they work with a will if they like, but if they do not they get 
 on just as fast, and I contend that it cannot be for the public interest to 
 have a discontented service, and, as I say, the service is becoming more 
 and more discontented. 
 
 3802. I wish it to be understood that I made my suggestions always 
 with a view to the public service being served in the long run. 
 
 3810. Chairman.'^ As I understand you, when you were at Washington, 
 the mission had letters from the American Government constantly, which 
 you could see had been copied by the press ? — Yes. 
 
 3811. Were these regularly bound and filed with the other papers? — 
 Yes, they were bound with the other archives. 
 
 3812. Have you had any evidence of their perishing? — Not the least, 
 while I was there. 
 
 3813. Viscount Barrington.'] Did I rightly understand you to say that 
 you are satisfied with the present system of examination on entering the 
 service? — Yes, on the whole, I am quite satisfied with it. I'think that it 
 would be better to have one examination, and I think that you might, with 
 advantage, introduce the Foreign Office system of having a competitive 
 examination among three nominations ; but I have no particular remarks 
 to make about the examination. 
 
 3814. You are against gentlemen entering the service for a certain 
 length of time, without making it a profession, and having a stricter 
 second examination for those who mean to continue in the profession ? — 
 No, I cannot say that I am against that at all. 
 
61 
 
 ' 3819. What is your experience with regard to telegraphic communica- 
 tion ; do you think that it diminishes work or that it increases it ? — I 
 think that it increases work very much. 
 
 3831. Mr. Cameron.'] Some suggestion has been made to this Com- 
 mittee of the employment of clerks of an inferior social position to the 
 ordinary attaches and secretaries ; do you think that that would be pro- 
 ductive of benefit to the service?— I do not see any objection against it. 
 
 3836. Have you any observations to make about any rules that you 
 would suggest with regard to marriage among the junior members of our 
 diplomatic service? — ^I think, as regards marriage, that we might take 
 another leaf out of the book of the f rench service with great advantage. 
 If I am rightly informed, in the French service it is necessary for a junior 
 before he can marry to get the consent of his chief and of the French 
 Foreign Office ; and I think it would be productive of very good results if 
 we had a regulation of the same kind. 
 
 3837. Have you ever thought, as a means by which the block in the 
 service might be removed, of reverting to the old practice of allowing 
 ambassadors to appoint attaches themselves, it being understood that such 
 attaches are not part of the regular service, but that they form merely a 
 class of extra attaches, and that when the minister retires or resigns, the 
 attache shall not be considered to have any claim on the service ? — Yes ; I 
 consider that that would be a very good plan, and that it would facilitate 
 the reduction of the ten or eleven second secretaries which 1 advocate very 
 much. 
 
 3843. Mr. Kinnaird.'] Owing to the evident block in the service, and 
 the partial discontent which exists, you are not sorry, perhaps, that an 
 examination of this nature has taken place ? — Quite the contrary. 
 
 Mk. Algernon Bertram Mitford. 
 
 3987. Chairman.'] We have been told that there is a considerable 
 amount of dissatisfaction in the junior branches of the service at the very 
 poor prospects of advancement; do you confirm that opinion? — Cer- 
 tainly. 
 
 3988. Have you ever made any calculation as to when you have a 
 reasonable prospect of becoming a first secretary ? — ^I should imagine in 
 about from 10 to 12 years from this time. 
 
 3989. How old would you be then ? — In 12 years I should be 46 years 
 of age. 
 
 3990. Have you any estimate of how long it would take you to rise 
 from a first secretaryship to a ministry? — I should think about 14 or 16 
 years. 
 
 3991. You could not, as I understand you, expect to rise to the highest 
 grade under about 60 years of age ? — Exactly so. 
 
 3992. That is a practical example of what is commonly called the 
 block in the profession ? — Yes, it is a very practical example of it. 
 
 3994. Have you ever applied your mind to suggesting a remedy ? I 
 
 have very often thought that promotion entirely by seniority is the cause 
 of the unfairness of the block ; not the cause of the block itself, but the 
 cause of what may be termed its unfairness. 
 
 3995. Every man, good or bad, goes up according to seniority, you 
 mean ?— There is no encouragement whatever to a man to do his work 
 well, simply because he sees his neighbour who is shirking his work, and 
 shuffling, go up, as he himself might do, knowing at the same time that he 
 is working hard in the interests of his country. 
 
 3997. May 1 ask, when you went to Japan had you any acquaintance 
 
62 
 
 with Oriental languages at all ? — When I -went to Japan I had already- 
 studied Chinese a considerable time. 
 
 3998. Are you now acquainted with both languages? — Yes. 
 
 4000. Is any inducement held out to gentlemen to make themselves 
 masters of those languages ? — On the contrary, there is every inducement 
 to them not to make themselves masters of those languages. 
 
 4001. How so ? — Simply for this reason, that if a man studies those 
 languages, it is a matter of great personal cost to himself. 
 
 4020. I understand you to say that your diplomatic chief recommended 
 your case for consideration to the Foreign Office for some remuneration, 
 in consequence of what you had spent in learning the language? — He 
 recommended me for the sum of 2001. to be paid to me, and the Treasury 
 refused it. 
 
 4023. Viscount Barrington.'] Is the amount of salary that yon receive 
 there at all commensurate with the expenses attending your situation ? — 
 No ; I receive iOOL, and I spend 8001. 
 
 4024. Is the style of living extremely expensive out there ? — ^The style 
 of living is expensive, on account of the extravagance of the merchants, 
 who have raised the prices of everything ; and it is also necessary, I think, 
 if you wish to keep up your position at all towards the natives, that you 
 should live in a suitable manner. 
 
 4025. That you should entertain to a certain extent ? — Certainly ; I 
 was called upon to entertain rather largely. 
 
 4026. Junior members of the mission, do you mean? — The secretary 
 of legation and myself used to mess together, and we constantly had 
 people of the rank of the foreign minister and other Japanese noblemen, 
 and persons of rank dining with us, and breakfasting with us ; then, of 
 course, also any travelling Englishmen who might come out and bring 
 letters of introduction, would expect to lodge at our house for a week or a 
 fortnight, or three weeks together. 
 
 40:J9. I suppose that these student interpreters who are attached to 
 the mission are like dragomans ? — They are a higher class than that, they 
 rise to be consuL 
 
 4030. They find it excessively hard to live upon their salary of 200Z. a 
 year ; those in Japan are really in a seriously inconvenient position. 
 
 4046. Mr. W. Cartwright.'] I think you suggest that there should be 
 no promotion strictly by seniority? — I consider that promotion entirely by 
 seniority is not a good thing, cieteris paribus of course the senior man 
 should go up, but when a man has special talents or acquirements I do not 
 see why he should not be promoted. 
 
 4047. Up to the rank of first secretary? — ^I do not see why he should 
 not be promoted in the case I have supposed. 
 
 4048. Mr. Cameron.'] Do not you think that if promotion by seniority 
 were done away with, it might give rise to a suspicion of favouritism on 
 the part of the Principal Secretary of State ? — I think, as a rule, in a small 
 service like ours, the working men are so well known to the rest of the 
 service, that the Secretary of State could hardly be suspected of favouritism 
 in promoting them. 
 
 4053. Did I rightly understand you to say that the service in China 
 and Japan might be so far separated from the other portions of the diplo- 
 matic service, and the work be done entirely by interpreters? — No; I 
 think that would be the very worst thing. I am entirely against the 
 employment of specialists in these higher branches of the diplomatic 
 service in China and Japan. I believe that a good man in Europe is a 
 
 food man in China and Japan ; and the best proof we had of that was Sir 
 'rederiek Bruce. Never had a minister more personal influence than he had. 
 
fi3 
 
 4054. Then you thiuk that the system of interchange should still be 
 kept up between the missions in Europe and the missions in Japan and 
 China?— I am quite certain that it is for the advantage of the missions in 
 China and Japan that it should be so. Whether the gentlemen who went 
 into the service, bargaining that they should be employed in posts in 
 Europe and America, would care to go out to China and Japan I do not 
 know, but I am quite sure that it is an advantage to our nation that m 
 dealing with Asiatics we should have the highest class of gentlemen we 
 can to represent us. . 
 
 4055. If you required the consent of these gentlemen to go to China 
 and Japan, that would at once make a distinction ?— Of the inadvisability 
 of such a distinction I do not think there could be a doubt. 
 
 4090. Mr. Eastwick.'] I would like to ask you, with regard to the 
 expense of learning the language of Japan, does it cost about 80Z. a year ? 
 —Yes. 
 
 4091. What do you think would be a fair donation for Government to 
 give td a gentleman who studies the language ? 
 
 4094. You think that 80Z. a year would be a fair sum to allow in respect 
 of the language ? — Yes. 
 
 4096. And how long were you studying Japanese ? 
 
 4097. It took me about a year and a-half working steadily, often as 
 much as eight or ten hours a day, before'I was intelligible in Japanese, or 
 intelligent in it. 
 
 4100. You would say, I suppose, that you require eighteen months 
 for that ? — ^A man ought to do it in a year. Any European language is 
 much easier to learn, because you have not to learn a new order of 
 thought. 
 
 4107. Would it not often be a fair thing that the term of service for 
 pensions should be rather reduced in the case of men serving in unhealthy 
 climates? — Only fair; nothing more than fair. And I think another 
 thing should be noticed in view of the climate : a man is supposed to be 
 allowed to come home at the end of five years, and at the end of those five 
 years he has half his passage to Southampton paid to him, and half his 
 passage out again. Now the Russians behave much more liberally to 
 their employes out in those countries. At the end of five years' service 
 they give a man treble the entire cost of the journey to come home ; that 
 is to say, they give him his journey home, as much again, and his journey 
 out again ; and it appears to me that that is a very fair reward. !LE a man 
 stays five years in those countries he is sure to have suffered more or less, 
 and it is a great banishment. 
 
 4111. Do you think that there is any advantage afforded to a man by 
 a college life when he enters the diplomatic service ? — He probably starts 
 in life in debt, and has lost three years' valuable Ijme. 
 
 4127. Mr. Rylands.'] Have you formed any opinion as to how far it 
 would be desirable that the Eastern embassies and missions should be con- 
 sidered a class apart ? — I am decidedly of opinion that they should not be 
 considered a class apart. 
 
 4131. Is it seriously your opinion that there would be no disadvantage or 
 inconvenience iu recruiting the higher ranks of the service in the East I 
 mean not only the lieads of the missions, but also the secretaries of lega- 
 tion, by drawing from the European missions men totally ignorant of the 
 customs of the East, and of the Chinese and Japanese language ? Cer- 
 tainly I am of that opinion. 
 
 4146. I do not separate the East from Eurdpe. My idea is, that no 
 people in the world have such a keen eye for a gentleman, a man of high 
 breeding, as the Asiatics ; and certainly in dealing with them I would 
 
64 
 
 employ men of as high breeding and birth as I could get to represent this 
 country. 
 
 4147. So that if you have two gentlemen of equal ability and of equal 
 distinction in other capacities, one of whom knows the Chinese language 
 and the customs of the people thoroughly, it would be advisable to send 
 that man to China rather than the other ? — Yes ; but I would any day 
 rather send a man who was a thorough gentleman, and a man of distinc- 
 tion (and ability, of course), to China, without any knowledge of Chinese, 
 than I would send a man of the class to whom allusion has frequently been 
 made in this Committee, as 3o whether they would not be proper men to 
 appoint to the diplomatic service, however good his knowledge of Chinese 
 might be. 
 
 4149. That is to say, that you think that if it were known by the 
 junior members of the service that in consequence of their intelligence 
 and their care they would be likely to have promotion, that would be an 
 inducement to their doing their work more efficiently than otherwise might 
 be the case ? — Certainly. • 
 
 4150. A gentleman who has held the position of second secretary of 
 legation expresses a fear that promotion by merit would create bad 
 feeling? — I do not think that there is any reason to feel any alarm on that 
 score. 
 
 4151. And, with regard to any question of favouritism, the promotion 
 depending, as it would do, very much upon the recommendation of the 
 head of the mission, you do not consider that it it were felt, as it would, 
 be, in the service, that the promotion was on justifiable grounds, there 
 would be any reason to fear any public expression of dissatisfaction ? — No. 
 
 4153. I should like to know whether you think that any saving of 
 labour might be advantageously obtained in the missions by the use of 
 copying presses ? — No, I do not think that copying papers would answer 
 in missions at all. 
 
 4186. Mr. Rylands.'] Then with regard to despatches, is there much 
 copying in Paris of despatches sent imder flying seal ? — Yes. 
 
 4187. And all that work, you think, is better done by the juniors in 
 the embassy than it would be by any permanent clerk ? — It is very confi- 
 dential work, you know. 
 
 4188. And you think that that would be an objection to the appoint- 
 ment of a number of clerks for a great part of the work in the Paris 
 embassy ? — A great deal might be done by anybody. Such things as the 
 registration of births, deaths, and marriages, the ttansf er of lunatics 
 between the two countries, and small petty claims between fishermen on 
 our side and fishermen on the French side, might be done naturally by 
 anybody. 
 
 4189. Mr. Otway."] Generally speaking, you are of opinion that much 
 of the work that comes to an embassy or legation is of a confidential 
 charxioter, requiring a man in whose discretion and honour you can have 
 confidence to deal with it ? — Yes. 
 
 4195. Do you think that members, looking to your general knowledge 
 of circumstances, might be induced to retire from your rank in the profes- 
 sion, and the block thereby be relieved, by gratuities being given to them ? 
 — I should say it would depend entirely upon the amount of the gratuity. 
 
 4196. Of course, when I put the question, I meant a gratuity of a 
 moderate character, but one that would be a temptation to a man, being 
 based on the salary he had been receiving ? — I should certainly be tempted 
 myself by a good gratuity. 
 
 4199. Now, coming to Japan, there have been great changes in that 
 country lately, have there not ? — Immense changes. 
 
65 
 
 4200. Of which you have furnished a very full, and, I may say, a very 
 interesting account. Do you think that our diplomacy has in any way 
 affected those changes in the government of the Mikado '{ — Most certainly 
 1 do ; I think that the moral support that the English gave to the Mikado's 
 party constantly, almost from its very birth, was one main cause of its 
 success. 
 
 4201. And I think there can be no doubt in your mind that those 
 changes will be beneficial to this country and to Europe generally ? — Cer- 
 tainly, because in former days you had in Japan a government which was 
 no government, a government only ruling over small patches of territory 
 here and there, and not recognised by the nation at large, whereas now 
 you have an intelligible government recognised by the nation at large, and 
 this government is giving signs of its intelligence by promoting such 
 things as railroads and telegraphs. 
 
 4214. Mr. Otway.'] How do the other foreign legations act in regard to 
 entertaining ? — The other foreign legations reside principally at Yokohama, 
 never see the Japanese at all, but live entirely amongst themselves, and 
 play a very secondary part in the country. 
 
 4217. Chairman.'] Is there a large commercial body established now at 
 Yokohama? — A very large body, and also at Yeddo, Hiogo, Osaka, 
 Nagasaki, Niigata, and Hakodate. 
 
 4218. And are there English merchants in those places ? — Yes, a large 
 nimiber. 
 
 4221. I was going to ask whether your own knowledge of Japanese 
 could be turned to account in that part of the world, if you directed your 
 abilities in that line of life ? — ^I have had two or three offers made me. 
 
 SiE Henkt Dbummond Wolff, K.C.M.G. 
 
 4224. Mr. Rylan'ds.] Have you formed any opinion as to how far diplo- 
 macy should be considered an exclusive profession ? — I think that it must 
 be considered an exclusive profession up to a certain point. J do notjgB. 
 ha^LJIsaJan^getL^Jaan of suffisient_^bre and education to ^q abroad, 
 unle^you hold^ut_MmfiJuq)es-oLjpiSll!(^ ■^ 
 
 42z5r~WouIdyou think that those hopes would.be sufflcieatly strong in 
 the case of a routine promotion without there being a certain amount of 
 promotion dependent upon merit ?— No ; I think that the promotion shiJuld 
 entirely depend on merit. 
 
 4226. From your experience of missions abroad, are you of opinion 
 that any steps should be taken by means of which there would he a dimi- 
 nution of the number of juniors in proportion to the occupants of the 
 higher offices in the profession ?— In my opinion, the whole system might 
 be improved by a general revision. I am not speaking at all of the per- 
 sonnel of the diplomatic or consular service ; because I think that indi- 
 vidually our diplomatists are the best men ; they are superior to the diplo- 
 matic servants of any other country. At the same time I think that you 
 might improve their position generally and render the service more efficient 
 by a general amalgamation of all branches of the service, the Kreign 
 Office, the consular service, and the diplomatic service, by establishing 
 equivalent ranks, as 1 believe that they are called in the Army, in each one 
 of these branches of the service ; and then you might appoint second 
 secretaries to first-rate consulates, and make it a sine qua non that a second 
 secretary should go through a first-rata consulate before he was made a 
 first secretary. By that means you would, in the first place, improve the 
 position of the second secretary. You have men now almost eating their 
 hearts out at 300?. or 4:001. a-year, at the age of 27 or 28 • whereas if 
 
66 
 
 they got these consulates they might get 700/., or 800/., or 1,000/. a year, 
 which would be an adequate provision for them, while they would also be 
 learning a great deal of the routine of commerce, which is now the prin- 
 cipal element in the business of a diplomatic establishment. 
 
 4228. There are one or two posts which really require a diplomatist and 
 politician, but which are reserved for the consular service, simply because 
 they are called consular posts. For instance, the consul general at 
 Bucharest, the consul general at Tunis, and the consul general in Egypt, 
 are practically ministers. They are not consuls in the generally accepted 
 sense of the word " consuls." They are diplomatists ; but because these 
 happen to be consular appointments, they are given to men who are con- 
 suls, and these men come to these posts as the height of their career, and 
 are unable to aspire to anything higher, because they are consuls. A 
 great many posts besides those I have mentioned are now held by consuls 
 which might be held by diplomatists. 
 
 4251. Mr. EylandsJ] Have you ever seen any reason to consider that 
 frequent transference was objectionable ? — No ; I think it is good. I 
 think it is a very bad thing for any diplomatist of any rank to remain too 
 long at one post. 
 
 4252. For instance, my idea is that the ambassador at Paris should 
 always change with the Government, and that other ambassadors should 
 get their appointments for not more than six years at a time, like governors 
 of colonies. They might be sent to another post, but they should not 
 remain in one place too long a time ; I think that if they do they get too 
 much acclimatised and naturalised. 
 
 4254. Eastern diplomacy is a very different thing from diplomacy in 
 Europe ? — I think that it is very different with regard to its effect upon the 
 people, but if you wish an opinion to the effect that Western diplomatists 
 should not be made use of in the East, I should not go all the way with 
 you there. 
 
 4257. I understand your scheme for the highest post in the service to 
 be this : you recommend that in regard to the ambassadors they should all 
 be appointed at the will of the minister of the day, from outsiders, if he 
 should so think fit ? — I think so. 
 
 4258. That with regard to miiiisters plenipotentiary, that should be 
 the recognised reward of men of the diplomatic profession ? — Yes. 
 
 4261. You would not consider that the fact that a man had arrived at 
 the point of minister from the lowest rank of the diplomatic service 
 was any reason why he should not be appointed to an embassy by the 
 Secretary of State if he seemed a suitable man to be so appointed? 
 — Ho. 
 
 4262. That you would say that the Secretary of State should have the 
 power of appointment as to the embassies, and should appoint men of 
 mark? — I think that a professional diplomatist ought to have the prefer- 
 ence so long as there really was no man of great mark to take tiie embassy. 
 
 «r Me. Robert Bcknet David Moeier, C.B. 
 
 4264. Chairman.'] You are a secretary of legation in the diplomatic 
 service ? — Yes. 
 
 4265. And your post is at Darmstadt ? — Yes. 
 
 4266. Will you be good enough to inform the Committee how the other 
 European countries are represented at Darmstadt? — There are French, 
 Austrian, Prussian, Russian, and Bavarian missions. AU the heads of 
 these missions are envoys extraordinary and ministers plenipotentiary, 
 with the exception of the Frenchman, who is minister plenipotentiary, and 
 
67 
 
 the present Russian, who is minister resident ; till lately, the Russian was 
 also envoy extraordinary. 
 
 4267. These missions have the ordinary staff of a minister plenipoten- 
 tiary, I {)resmue ? — ^Yes, they have got secretaries. 
 
 4272. The peculiar position of Darmstadt, to which you just alluded, 
 renders it desirable in your opinion, does it not, that this country shoidd I 
 also, as wishing to be informed of political events in Germany, have a 
 representative there ? — That depends upon the view which is taken of the 
 diplomatic service. If the functions of diplomacy are purely those of 
 treating matters which immediately concern Great Britain, I cannot say 
 that the post of Darmstadt is one of .importance. It certainly is one of 
 importance as regards watching the events which are going on in connec- 
 tion with the reconstruction of Germany. 
 
 4276. Will you give us an idea, from your own experience, by stating 
 the work that may have devolved on you to do at Darmstadt ? — ^I have had 
 to draw up a report upon the co-operative institutions of Germany, and a 
 second report upon land tenure ; and I have received instructions to write 
 a report upon the industrial status of the working classes in what is a great 
 manufacturing centre of Germany. This work is quite independent of the 
 work of reporting upon political subjects, and the work connected with 
 British subjects, which is exceedingly variable ; I know that with regard to 
 my report upon land tenure, it gave me three or four months of the very 
 hardest work that I ever had in my life. 
 
 4279. WiU you give us the advantage of your opinions on the cause of 
 the block, and any suggestions that may occur to you by which promotion 
 may be augmented, or the impediment to promotion removed ? — My own 
 impression of the block is, that it is the result of the alterations made in 
 the diplomatic service consequent upon the recommendations of the Com- 
 mittee which sat in 1861. This feeling of absolute, total, and complete 
 hopelessness, which every junior member of the service has, did not in 
 those days exist. 
 
 4280. There are many different ways by which you can remove the 
 momentary block. You can bribe a certain number of men out of the 
 service ; you can give them openings elsewhere ; but the desideratum is to 
 retain the good men, and to get rid of the bad men ; and that is a very 
 di£Scult thing to do. 
 
 4281. Do you -think that a system of gratuity based on the calculation 
 of the salary received by the junior members of the diplomatic service 
 would induce many members to leave it ? — ^The oJ)jection to that seems to 
 me, that it might induce the good men to go and keep the bad men in. A 
 man who obtains a gratuity and has got a status in the service is a man 
 very likely to get employment elsewhere. 
 
 4282. But that objection would cease if the Secretary of State exer- 
 cised his discretion in offering such a gratuity to individuals, would it not ? 
 — Yes, perfectly. Then you come back to what I beUeve to be the only 
 possible system in so smiill a service as the diplomatic — that is, promotion 
 wholly, solely, and entirely by the fitness of the man for the place. 
 
 4283. You would not attach any importance to the impression that 
 might prevail of the action of political pressure on and favouritism on the 
 part of the Secretary of State? — Absolutely none ; I look upon that as 
 being as completely dead and gone as rotten boroughs. 
 
 4285. I cannot see any wajr in which a service like thd diplomatic 
 can be worked, except by heaping up responsibility upon the shoulders 
 of your Foreign Secretary. The moment that you make him com- 
 pletely responsible, as a mere matter of self-preservation, he must look 
 out for the best men. He cannot bear all that weight upon his back 
 
68 
 
 unless he has good men under him to help him. It is the condition of all 
 good service to make a man responsible for his work, to break his neck if 
 he does not do it well ; and if he does do it well, to let him have all honour. 
 
 4286. Does it appear to you that, to a certain extent, the Secretary of 
 State becomes absolved from his responsibility if he has to f oUow a routine 
 of seniority? — Completely and entirely. 
 
 4288. I presume that at Darmstadt, if the modest English representa- 
 tion which already exists there, which I understand costs the country 700?. 
 a year, were withdrawn, irrespective altogether of the gentleman who 
 might be charge d'affaires or might fill the position that you fill there, it 
 would be felt by the Grand Ducal Court as a slur upon their position ? — 
 Certainly ; it would be considered a very marked act of discourtesy. 
 
 4307. Viscount Barrington.l Have you ever considered the possibility 
 of amalgamating the diplomatic and consular services in any kind of way? 
 — My feeling about the amalgamation of those two sei-vices is this: I 
 believe that there are a certain number of appointments which have the 
 name of consular, but which are really political appointments. I have a 
 strong feeling that the appointments which are in their nature political,' 
 should be amalgamated wholly with the diplomatic service, that is to say, 
 that no man should have an appointment of that sort who had not had the 
 training which can only be obtained in diplomacy. As far as that goes, I 
 should be entirely for amalgamating the political consulships with the 
 diplomatic service. 
 
 4308. Would you mention the consular posts which you allude to ? — 
 There is Bucharest ; that of course is a political post. Egypt again, Warsaw, 
 and Tunis. 
 
 4309. And do you think that would cause any very great jealousy on 
 the part of the present occupants of consular posts? — It seems to me 
 that the public service ought to be the criterion for all questions of that 
 kind. 
 
 4310. What is your opinion with regard to the changes that ought to 
 take place in diplomatic posts ? — I should disagree with anything like any 
 very absolute rule. I think that the international knowledge required for 
 diplomatic purposes is so different in kind and degree that it is impossible 
 to apply a rule^ I think it important that we should have a certain 
 number of men in the service who have a thorough, complete, and 
 entire knowledge of the different countries in Europe. Now, two years 
 will give that knowledge about some countries, or even less than that 
 will do it ; with regard to others, two years is just enough to give a 
 man the A.B.C. 
 
 4311. With regard to the chiefs of missions, do you think that the 
 same rule ou^ht to apply to them? — ^I think that the fewer rules you 
 make the better. 
 
 4312. Mr. A. Russell.'] It was suggested by Sir Henry Wolff on Monday 
 that the ambassador at Paris ought to change with the Government, that 
 the ambassador at Constantinople ought to hold his office permanently 
 till he is superannuated, and that the ambassadors at other posts ought to 
 hold their appointments only for six years ; do you think that rules of that 
 kind can be enforced with any advantage ? — I should wholly dissent from 
 them. 
 
 4313. Viscount Barrington.'j If any rule of that sort were made absolute, 
 so as to involve having changes at the principal missions with every 
 change of Government, it would entail a very large expense upon the 
 country in the way of outfit, would it not? — Certainly. 
 
 43 14. What do you think about exchanges taking place between the 
 Foreign Office and the juniors in missions ? — As regards the efficiency of 
 
69 
 
 the diplomatic agents, it would be of incalculable service to have men 
 in the Foregn Office who had personal experience of the diplomatic service. 
 Instead of having the exchange voluntary, I should wish to see it obliga^ 
 tory. I should wish, for instance, this kind of thing, that the head of the 
 French Department in the Foreign Office should at some period of his 
 career have served in France, and if possible as first secretary of embassy 
 at Paris ; sinularly I should wish the head of the German Department to 
 have served at least a year as secretary of embassy and charge d'affaires at 
 Berlin and Vienna, and so on. I say this, because it makes the whole 
 difference in the sort of interest that one has in one's work, and in the power 
 of really doing good work, whether you are writing to persons who are 
 personally acquainted with the subject upon which you write to them. I 
 wiU take such an instance as Japan. I daresay you have read Mr. Mit- 
 ford's papers in the " Fortnightly." It would make the whole difference 
 to you if you happened to be minister in Japan, if you had such a man as 
 that at the head of the Oriental Department, and if you wrote to him 
 under the sense that he could enter into everything that you were saying. 
 
 4316. Chairman.'] I should like to have as part of the system of the 
 Foreign Office what has been the case practically ever since Lord Clarendon 
 has been Foreign Minister. Lord Clarendon has been himself employed 
 abroad, and has an exceptional knowledge of everything connected with 
 foreign persons, and not only foreign politics, but all those numerous 
 questions that are now interesting the English public. I think that every 
 person who has served in diplomacy during the last 15 yeara will say the 
 same thing that I do, which is that no attache, however obscure, could 
 write a memorandum on any subject connected with either political'or 
 social questions, or any question of general interest, which would not be 
 submitted to the most accurate criticism by the Foreign Secretary himself. 
 I can say of myself that the first thing which gave me a keen interest in 
 the diplomatic profession was the criticism made by Lord Clarendon upon 
 a report of mine when I was an unpaid attache at Vienna. At the present 
 time every diplomatic agent knows that he will, have a perfect master in 
 the art of criticism, judging the work that he sends home. That is the 
 case with Lord Clarendon ; and what I should like to see in the Foreign 
 Office would be that there should be a certain body of men who had that 
 interest and that knowledge, and who could sit as critics of the work that 
 we do. It is a great check upon a man who is not a conscientious reporter, 
 and who likes to indulge in fine writing, to know that the man who reads 
 is thoroughly and completely conversant with the facts about which he 
 writes ; and on the other hand it is a great advantage to a man who is 
 conscientious, and- who is really trying to do good work, to know that his 
 work will be understood and appreciated. 
 
 4317. It seems to me that if there were a desire to do the thing, the 
 thing could be easily done. The moment you make these changes com- 
 pulsory, you get over the difficulty. If you force a man after, say, five 
 years of his career abroad, to spend one year in the Foreign Office, be grows 
 up knowing the work of the Foreign Office ; and there is ndfTiort of reason 
 why the secretary of embassy at Paris should not exchange for a year with 
 the head of the French Department in the Foreign Office. 
 
 4818. But supposing that the circumstances of the head of the French 
 Department did not allow him to go and live in Paris? — ^Then you must 
 pay him. If the thing is desirable and good for the foreign service, ' I 
 cannot see that the question of a few hundred pounds a year would come 
 in at all. 
 
 4320. Mr. Rylands.'] I think I understood you to say in regard to the 
 plan you have been suggesting, that it had reference more particularly to 
 
70 
 
 the desirableness in your opinion of the senior clerks attached to the dif- 
 ferent departments of European and foreign diplomacy being, if possible, 
 men who had a practical experience in that part of the world to which 
 they are attached in the" Foreign Office arrangements ? —That is the way I 
 put it. 
 
 4321. There are exceedingly able men in the Foreign Office ; everybody 
 who has had to deal with them knows that there are exceedingly able men 
 there. But everybody must feel that it is a perfectly different thing to 
 have a sort of abstract knowledge of foreign matters from what it is to 
 have a practical knowledge of them. 
 
 ■4322. Chairman.'] Have you considered the practical working of this 
 scheme at all that you have been suggesting ? — ^I have not considered it 
 in its technical details, because liave not the data to study it in that light. 
 I only think that in itself it is an exceedingly desirable thing, and that 
 with the enormous amount of every kind of work that is being given to us 
 to do now, there should be a corresponding personal knowledge in the 
 Foreign Office to control that work. 
 
 4325. Viscount Barrington.'] I suppose you might fairly consider Lord 
 Clarendon's position, having previously served in a diplomatic career a 
 great many years, as a fair corroboration of your view ? — I think very 
 much so indeed ; I am speaking not only from my own personal experience, 
 but from that of the greater number of the members of the diplomatic 
 service. The whole of that unmistakable zeal which anybody may see 
 who takes the trouble of reading these Blue Book Reports, comes from the 
 sort of personal interest taken by Lord Clarendon in this more or less 
 external work of diplomacy ; I mean from that kind of careful criticism 
 which he gives to everybody's work. 
 
 4328. Viscount Barrington.'] To turn to another subject, I suppose that 
 entertaining as you do the highest possible view of the responsibility of 
 the Foreign Secretary in this country, you would, notwithstanding the 
 fact of the diplomatic service now being looked upon entirely as a profes- 
 sion, not object to the appointment occasionally of what are called out- 
 siders to the higher posts? — The diplomatic service is not numerically 
 sufficiently large to be treated as a profession. There are 122 persons in the 
 diplomatic service, and if I remember right there are, out of that number 
 of 122, something like 64 persons who are either heads of missions or first 
 secretaries of legation, that is to say, persons who at any moment may 
 have the full international responsibility of such a state as Great Britain 
 put upon their shoulders. With 122 persons, 64 of whom are, so to speak, 
 field-marshals, you cannot do it, and therefore you have got this difficulty, 
 that you cannot, in my opinion, treat diplomacy as a profession in the 
 . same way as you can treat other branches of the public service. On the 
 other hand, there is no branch of the public service which requires a 
 more thorough professional knowledge than diplomacy ; there is no branch 
 of the service which requires such careful . preparation and such long 
 training ; and what you have to do is to find some means or other by 
 which these two difficulties can be reconciled. My own idea would be 
 that, if I were starting perfectly clear, if I had to do the thing myself, I 
 would have an upper class not necessarily professional, a middle class 
 absolutely professional, and a third class wholly unprofessional. The sort 
 of thing that I think could be established would be this : you have got 
 your envoys, who have to do the actual negotiation between Great Britain 
 and other countries ; you have your secretaries, whose principal function 
 is that of collecting and imparting information to the Government ; and 
 then you require raw material out of which you can select your secre- 
 taries. I should propose going back to the old system of unpaid attaches. 
 
71 
 
 I should give an absolutely unlimited power to the Foreign Secretary to 
 appoint as many unpaid attaches as he wished ; and I should require no 
 sort or kind of examination for the purpose of being named unpaid attache. 
 The advantage which a man obtained by being unpaid attache would be 
 that he would be allowed to present himself for examination, not for a 
 competitive examination, but for a test examination. But instead of 
 having what we have had hitherto, which seems to me the great mistake 
 of the system, a minimum test examination, I would have a maximum 
 test examination ; that is to say, I would have an examination of the very 
 highest possible kind, so that a man who had passed that examination 
 should be, as tested by that examination, up to the very highest class of 
 work that could be given to him ; and this class of persons should receive 
 sufficient pay to make such a post in itself desirable ; that is to say, the 
 remuneration should be sufficiently high to make it worth a man's while 
 to go in for this, irrespectively of anything else ; and that could be very 
 easily done, because the moment you fix such a standard as that, you are 
 certain to have only a limited number of men capable of passing such an 
 examination ; and, in the second place, they are perfectly worth the 
 money. These men should know that by distinguishing themselves and 
 acting up to the standard we had proved by their examination they had 
 attained, they would, more or less, as a matter of course, become envoys. 
 The higher missions should be open to this class of men, perfectly irre- 
 spective of the time that they had served ; that is to say, it should be 
 whoUy a service by merit. If you once had that system there would be 
 then no sort of difficulty in appointing outsiders into the higher service. 
 The injustice of appointing outsiders at present is, that you have made 
 the profession a seniority service, and therefore, having made it a seniority 
 service, we get to this disagreeable position for aU of us, that when we 
 have worked up to within one or two of this goal which we have before 
 us, namely, a mission, then an outsider is suddenly taken and put in in 
 front of us, on the plea that he is the best man. Supposing that the fifth 
 or sixth man on the list is the very best man in the world, he cannot be 
 put there, because it would be going against the seniority of the service, 
 but somebody else, an outsider, is put there. The injustice consists wholly 
 and entirely in combining outsiders with the seniority system. I am 
 strongly of opinion that the moment you get rid of the seniority system, 
 there is no sort of reason why a man, if he is specially fitted for a post, 
 should not be appointed to it, even if he is an outsider. 
 
 4335. Now I should like to aak your opinion about the appointment of 
 clerks in the different missions? 
 
 4336. If you mean, as a substitute for the service of attaches and 
 secretaries, to have copying clerks for the general work of the service, I 
 should certainly be excessively averse to that. 
 
 4387. What would be your reasons for objecting to them ? — I think 
 that one cannot sufficiently bear in mind that the vital principle of inter- 
 national intercourse is confidence. What credit is to commerce confidence 
 is to international intercourse ; and there is nothing in the world so deli- 
 cate as either credit or confidence of that sort ; and if you come to examine 
 either the one or the other, I think you will find that it resolves itself into 
 the kind of opinion which one person forms of another person. If I have 
 to accept a biU at six months, I look at the name of the firm ; it is very 
 difficult to analyse the process further than that. The sort of feeling 
 and belief that I have in regard to that firm is made up of all sorts of 
 traditions and impressions which it would be impossible to analyse ; it is 
 the sort of belief that I have in a particular name. If you examine this 
 process as regards international intercourse, when a man like Prince 
 
72 
 
 Gortscliakoff or AE Pacha confides a secret, an important State secret, to 
 Her Majesty's ambassador at St, Petersburg, or at Constantinople, what 
 he has in his mind is an unconscious judgment which he has come to with 
 regard to, not Lord Clarendon, or Lord Granville, or Lord Aberdeen, 
 personally, but with regard to the firm, so to speak, which is repre- 
 sented by the British Foreign Office. He knows when he confides that 
 secret, that within a few hours a certain number of attaches and secre- 
 taries will know all about it, and that within a few days a certain number 
 of persons in- the Foreign Office will know all about it. His confidence 
 is based upon the idea that the foreign minister under whom all these per- 
 sons are serving is personally responsible for the sacredness with which 
 that secret will be treated ; and I do not think that you can afford to 
 diminish this confidence, because, as I say, it is the soul of international 
 intercourse. 
 
 4839. In fact, you do not think that it would be to the advantage of 
 the service that any change like that should take place? — I think it would 
 be the very worst thing in the world that could happen. 
 
 4346. You thoroughly approve of this modern system of reports?-— 
 Yes, I think it is of enormous advantage as an education for the diplomatic 
 service on the one hand, and I think it is of the greatest possible impor- 
 tance that we should, as a nation, get to know something of what is done 
 outside Great Britain. 
 
 4347. I understand the question to be, what would be the best use of a 
 young diplomatist's time abroad. Well, the actual amount of knowledge 
 which a diplomatist has to master before he can fit himself for the work is 
 So great, because the peculiar feature of the day is the way in which 
 political questions, and social questions, and religious questions, and 
 scientific questions, are all dovetailed the one into the other, that the time 
 of a man who really wishes to fit himself for his work is more than filled. 
 According to the scheme that I laid down just now, I should pre-suppose 
 a special diplomatic education of a very different kind from any that has 
 been thought of as yet, and that would take up a man's whole time for 
 several years of his life. To tell you the honest truth, I think that there 
 is uncommonly little spare time at present. 
 
 4348. That is just what I want to get at ; some gentlemen are of opinion 
 that the public service would be best advanced by having fixed hours for 
 office attendance, and by reducing the number of younger members of the 
 mission to such an extent that they would be largely occupied by copying 
 despatches ; I wish to know whether you think that the best training of a 
 young diplomatist, or whether he would not be serving his country better 
 by mixing largely in all classes of society, by studying the colloquial 
 language of the country, and by travelling over the country in which he is 
 placed? — I think that the more you can diminish his mere mechanical 
 work, and the more you can give him of the higher class of work, the 
 better ; there is no doubt about that. 
 
 4350. With regard to open competition for diplomatic appointments, 
 it has been suggested that it would be better to throw open aU these 
 offices to open competition ; what is your opinion of that, with a view to 
 the public service? — I conceive that it is absolutely necessary that the 
 Foreign Secretary should be wholly responsible for the persons that are 
 admitted into the service ; on anything in the shape of a body external to 
 the Foreign Office on whom should be shifted the responsibility of select- 
 ing persons for the service, I look as one of the most dangerous things 
 that could happen. I have stated why I think so, because I think that it 
 would destroy that sense of confidence which now prevails. I have got 
 some knowledge of examinations ; I was for two years in the educational 
 
73 
 
 department of the Council Office, and I have been at Oxford, and I have 
 occupied myself with the question of examinations ; and I have no hesita- 
 tion whatever in saying that I look upon competition as the very worst form of 
 training possible for the purpose that you require. I can describe it best 
 by saying that every fault that is found with two-year-old races may be 
 applied to competitive examinations. You bring out certain qualities 
 prematurely; you develop in an excessive way certain peculiarities, and 
 you totally miss the whole object of the kind of education that you require 
 for a service like the diplomatic, which is the power of assimilation. 
 Therefore I am totally and entirely against competitive examinations. 
 
 4355. I should conceive that however good might be the men turned 
 out by such a system, it would be a fatal blow to that international con- 
 fidence which I look upon as the sine qua non of international intercourse. 
 I wish particularly to make an observation which I have not seen made 
 anywhere, which is that we have got something very much higher to con- 
 sider than our national responsibility in this matter. The diplomatic 
 service of the Foreign Office has confided to it the secrets of other nations ; 
 we are responsible not for our secrets only, but for the secrets of other 
 people; and therefore it is of the greatest importance that whatever 
 experiments we may make with regard to services wholly within our own 
 control, they should not rashly be extended to relations which involve our 
 good faith with other nations ; because you must remember that a great 
 many secrets are confided to us which do not immediately concern us, but 
 which are confided to us in virtue of this complete confidence which exists 
 at present, and which to a very great extent is based upon the prestige 
 which the idea of an English gentleman carries with it, and we cannot 
 jeopardise that confidence by letting other nations know that nobody is 
 responsible for the persons to whom these secrets are confided. For this 
 will really be the result of appointments made by competitive examina- 
 tions. The Secretary of State is not responsible, because the successful 
 candidates are forced upon him by the Civil Service examiners ; the Civil 
 Service examiners are not responsible for the individual as a whole, but 
 only for a certain amount of brain work. Thus nobody is responsible. 
 
 4356. Mr. A. Russell.'] The diplomatic service has been described as 
 too exclusively composed of members of titled families ; do you think that 
 that is the case? — I think that if anybody took the trouble of looking at 
 the Ked Book, and of inquiring about who the persons are, he would find 
 that the diplomatic service was exceedingly fairly made up. You might 
 call it a geological section of English society. 
 
 4367. Do you see your way to the possibility of any reduction in the 
 expenditure of the diplomatic service, without detriment to the publio 
 service? — We must remember that England has an international position 
 which no other country in the world has. We are the only country in the 
 world that can be really said to have a cosmopolitan position. We are 
 not only a great European power, but a first-rate American power ; a first- 
 rate Asiatic power ; a first-rate African power ; and a wholly Australasian 
 power. If, therefore, we do not spend upon our international machinery 
 more than a first-rate European power does, it seems to me a very small 
 sum. 
 
 4359. You think that England ought to be represented by agents of the 
 same rank as other powers ? — Yes. 
 
 4360. And that it would not be wise to lower the position of our repre- 
 sentatives if other countries do not do the same ? — Most decidedly it would 
 not. There is no use d enying that people are very much influenced by these 
 external forms ; and, as I said, social status and position are more necessary 
 to an English agent than to any other, because they afford him the only 
 
74 
 
 means of acknowledging a great number of international courtesies wliicli 
 he is perpetually receiving, and of requiting the trouble of a great many 
 persons, both official and non-official, to whose services the present system 
 of reports forces him to have recourse. 
 
 4362. Mr. West, in his report from Paris, says that there is great 
 exaggeration in the idea that it is necessary for a diplomatic agent to mix 
 in society, and that it leads to increase in expenditure ? — There is no doubt 
 that it leads to increase in expenditure, but I cannot conceive how a man 
 can be getting up the knowledge which Her Majesty's Government expects 
 him to have unless he does mix in society. 
 
 4863. You think that it would be difficult for him to receive the hos- 
 pitalities of others if he never returned them '> — ^Yes, absolutely impossible. 
 Those hospitalities are made to him in virtue of his being the agent of the 
 British Crown, and if he does not return them it is the British Crown that 
 stands in the invidious position of not returning the civilities offered 
 to it. 
 
 4366. Mr. W. Cartwright.'] Would you say that there is any difference 
 in the attainments of the present generation in the diplomatic service as 
 compared with those of the men who entered the service before there was 
 any examination, I mean any improvement in their efficiency? — ^As far as I 
 can make out there is a decided improvement in the actual diplomatic 
 agents. The men in the junior grades especially are, I should think, a 
 superior body on the whole to what I have been told they were formerly. 
 
 4368. That we have got a body of men who are in the least acquainted 
 with international law, 1 am sorry to say, I do not believe. 
 
 4371. In the course of this Committee it has been repeatedly urged 
 that the introduction and the great extension of the telegraphic commu- 
 nication has altogether modified the position of the diplomatic servants 
 abroad, and has tended to relieve them from a great deal of responsibility, 
 and altogether to modify their relations ; is that your view ?^My own im- 
 pression is the exact reverse. I believe that the introduction of telegraphy 
 has necessitated a very far superior kind of intellectual training to what 
 existed before the introduction of the telegraph. Only one side of the 
 question seems to have been considered with regard to this — namely, the 
 power which the Foreign Secretary has of telegraphing his orders to the 
 diplomatic agent. What seems to have been entirely forgotten is that 
 before the Foreign Secretary can convey his orders to the diplomatic agent 
 he must have the telegraphic report of the diplomatic agent upon which to 
 base his orders. Now anybody who has thought upon the subject knows 
 that of all the responsible and of aU the difficult things to do, to convey a 
 completely new political situation, such as can be the result of a day's 
 conference, in a telegram of some seventy or eighty words, and to convey 
 it in such a form that not only the Foreign Minister, but perhaps a 
 Cabinet Council, may be able to decide upon it, is an intellectual tour de 
 force which requires an exceedingly superior kind of agent. 
 
 4372. Is not the mechanical labour of diplomatists increased by the 
 use of ciphers necessarily consequent on the habitual use of telegraph- 
 ing ? — Yes. 
 
 4373. So that both the intellectual strain and the mere mechanical 
 labour are increased? — Yes. 
 
 4375. I suppose that you do not agree with those who think that in 
 consequence of the great improvement of the press, a great deal of the 
 work that used to be done by confidential agents of the Foreign Office 
 now need not be done any more by confidential agents, and that the press 
 itself in a great degree is a substitute for the work of the Foreign Office ? 
 — No, I cannot agree with that view the least in the world. 
 
75 
 
 4376. Still the view does prevail that the press ia, to a great extent, a 
 substitute for the work of the Foreign Office? — ^My view is very much the 
 reverse — ^viz.,thatif we did not require the diplomatic service for anything 
 else, we should require it for the purpose of controlling the information 
 given by the press. 
 
 4377. You mean that you think very often the press is incorrectly in- 
 formed? — It is not merely that the press is incorrectly informed, but, 
 speaking not in the least of the English press, but of the foreign press 
 from which the English press must to a great extent take its knowledge, 
 it is a well-known thing that every foreign government has relations more 
 or less subterranean with certain organs of the press, and that there is a 
 perpetual manufacture of information which is certainly not necessarily 
 correct, but which is intended for a certain momentary purpose. Now, 
 one of the most important functions which a diplomatic agent has to 
 perform is to give to his Government exact knowledge of what is good 
 information and what is bad information. 
 
 4386. You cannot make any practical suggestions with a view to 
 economy? — No; I think I could make the service better by having more 
 money, but I really do not see that I could make it better by spending 
 less money. 
 
 4389. In point of fact, you are of opinion tha,t the service is anything 
 but exorbitantly remunerative ? — ^The service is most certainly underpaid ; 
 there is not the slightest doubt in the world about that. 
 
 4394. It has been observed several times that some danger might exist 
 of making such juniors as became consuls, invested with a certain political 
 character, prone to what is called needless intermeddling ; do you think 
 there iS" much danger of that? — No, I think it is just the reverse. The 
 danger of meddling arises when you put a man utterly unused to political 
 work into a post where he has a certain amount of political work to do. 
 Such a man suddenly finding himself in a place like Bucharest or Belgrade, 
 where there ia a good deal of important political work, is in danger of ex- 
 aggerating the nature of his political functions, whereas a man who has 
 been secretary of embassy, and who knows the comparative importance of 
 work at Bucharest, and at Paris or Vienna, is not likely to make that 
 mistake. 
 
 4402. Mr. Eastwick.'] With regard to the examinations, do not you 
 think it is most desirable to have the very best talent of the country in 
 the diplomatic service? — Certainly. 
 
 4480. Mr. Rykmds.'] I suppose that it is felt in the service now that if 
 a man makes himself competent in relation to questions affecting the ma- 
 terial interests of the British Empire, it will be very much to his credit 
 with the authorities at home ? — ^Very much to his credit, but not to his 
 advancement, owing to the seniority system. 
 
 4481. If your view were carried out, you would make it a matter that 
 would tell on his advancement? — To the very greatest possible extent. 
 
 4486. You do not think then that, in reference to diplomacy, it is not a 
 desirable thing that a man should have a smattering of all the countries on 
 the face of the earth, and no full knowledge of any particular country? — 
 I think it ia impossible to lay down an absolute rule of that kind. For 
 many reasons it is desirable that a man should know many countries ; and 
 at the same time, it is desirable that there should be in the profession a 
 certain number of men who are thoroughly acquainted with the different 
 countries. 
 
 4489. With regard to promotion arising from the superiority of a 
 man's character and services, you think that the fact that there was pro- 
 motion by merit would do a great deal to remove the feeling of hopelessness 
 
76 
 
 that you speak of as prevailing in the profession? — It would entirely 
 remove it, I think. 
 
 4490. It would have this effect, I presume, in your judgment, that if a 
 man were an ineflficient man, and saw that he had no chance of- getting on, 
 he would become hopeless, and very likely might go out of the profession ? 
 — Which would be very desirable. 
 
 4492. I think with regard to the men who have entered since 1861, 
 that they have a very fair right to look forward to the operation of the 
 system of seniority up to the grade of first secretary of legation. 
 
 4493. As regards the momentary causes of the block, some means 
 should be found of retaining the good men, and getting rid of the bad 
 men. 
 
 4494. Chairman.'} That is the problem to solve ? — That is the problem 
 . to solve ; because, in the present state of the labour market, a man who 
 
 has attained a status in the diplomatic profession, who is known to have 
 been a trusted agent of the Government, who has a thorough acquaintance 
 with foreign languages, who has mastered all the details of finance and of 
 the productive resources of European countries, is a man who can any day 
 command a very large price if he chooses to go out of the service, and serve 
 in one of those numerous international undertakings which are becoming 
 every day more developed. Therefore a man of that sort can get his price ; 
 aud I know at the present moment (of course I cannot mention names) 
 several persons, very excellent public servants, who are only waiting to 
 see whether there is a prospect of this block being got rid of, before they 
 decide on leaving diplomacy, and, going into private enterprises of that 
 kind. 
 
 4495. Those are the people that you wish to- retain ? — Those are the 
 people I wish to retain ; for if those people go out you retain second-rate 
 people, who, having no chance in any other profession, are only too glad to 
 go on, however slowly, by seniority. - 1 can mention the case of Mr. 
 Herbert, who was assassinated at Athens, and I think everybody who read 
 his letters will have formed some sort of idea of how valuable a life his 
 was. I considered him one of the very best men in the service. The last 
 conversation that I had -with him was on this very subject, and that is 
 why I mention him. He described the perfect hopelessness of going on 
 with the profession, and told me that it was his intention to leave it. The 
 following is the proposal which I thought of : a high test examination, 
 principally in subjects chosen by the candidates and connected with the 
 countries in which the individuals had been employed, to which all unpaid 
 attaches and second and third secretaries might voluntarily offer themselves 
 within the next two yeai-s ; those who passed that examination should be 
 placed at the head of the list of second secretaries, and receive an ad- 
 ditional gratuity ; those who did not pass it, or did not present themselves, 
 would then have the option of remaining where they were or leaving the 
 service with a fair compensation ; that is, of course, upon the assumption 
 that some such general plan as that which I have proposed for the re- 
 organisation of the service, of a high test examination instead of a low 
 entrance examination, should be adopted. 
 
 4496. That is to say, a test examination in substitution for an entrance 
 examination ? — I propose three classes of diplomatic servants, a first, and 
 second, and third cWss ; I wish to have a third class, consisting of unpaid 
 attaches, who would have the right to present themselves for this very 
 high test examination ; I think this plan might be, in a modified form, 
 applied at present, viz., to give these men the option of passing such an 
 examination, and thus to place them at the head of the Uat of second 
 secretaries. 
 
77 
 
 4502. And that those who either did not pass, or did not choose to 
 enter their names for this stiff examination, would be left in a position no 
 doubt of disadvantage, but from which they would have, if they chose, the 
 chance of relieving themselves by retiring from the service on some com- 
 mutation? — I think with a considerable compensation, because it is the 
 House of Commons that has produced the seniority system, and I think the 
 House of Commons ought to pay those who have entered it in the faith of 
 this recommendation of theirs. 
 
 4507. But surely it would be rather unjust, considering that the diplo- 
 matic service is now a profession, and that gentlemen who entered it under 
 certain conditions, found themselves all of a sudden called upon to pass a 
 third examination? — The injustice already exists because the State has 
 entered into a contract which it cannot fulfil. I wish to restrict the in- 
 justice to the inefficient men, and to diminish this injustice as regards 
 these men by a large compensation. Of course the examination I propose 
 would be entirely voluntary. 
 
 4510. The difficulty is that you have got this block, and if the blocks 
 last I can positively predict that the good men will leave, and that the 
 bad men will be left in ; that is a thing of which you may be perfectly 
 certain. 
 
 4511. Mr. W. Cartwright.'] Your plan would be an incentive, and a means 
 to push the good men on at once ? — Yes. 
 
 4512. And to get rid of the inferior men at a fair compensation? — Yes. 
 
 4513. Mr. Rylands.l And you would propose after this arrangement, 
 which you recommend merely as one of an extremely exceptional character, 
 that it should be understood that all promotion should be by merit, and 
 that this system of seniority should be entirely done away with? — Yes. 
 
 4682. Mr. W. Lnwther.'j There are more claims upon you, with your 
 7001. a year at Darmstadt, than there are upon a secretary of embassy 
 with l,000i. a year? — Certainly ; because however humbly or modestly one 
 does it, there are certain representative functions which are perfectly un- 
 avoidable. And then there is another point, that is, that assistance has 
 to be given to English subjects. 
 
 4583. Pecuniary assistance ? — Yes. 
 
 4585. I think you said that a thorough absolute and complete knowledge 
 of diplomacy was necessary for a minister at a foreign court ; do you con- 
 sider that the public service suffers by the employment of outsiders ? — Well, 
 if you can get the right man for that work, I think you must take him 
 wherever you can find him, and I should be very sorry to see any system 
 adopted that excluded the possibility of taking in outsiders. I should be 
 sorry to see the service one altogether professional, or one altogether con- 
 sisting of outsiders, with people assisting them who had been abroad ; but 
 I thinJi you cannot exclude the question of outsiders. 
 
 Mr. Henry Laboucheee. 
 
 4619. Mr. Rylands.'] With reference, in the first place, to the entrance 
 into the service, are you prepared to express any opinion as to whether it 
 would be desirable that there should be a system of competition in con- 
 nection with the appointments to the diplomatic service ? 
 
 4621. It appears to me that there is no real reason why there should 
 not be a competitive examination. 
 
 4630. Your judgment is, that if a fair measure of work, regular work, 
 were obtained from the juniors a smaller number of them might do the 
 work which is required ? — You might take it that perhaps there would be 
 on the average three despatches written every day at St. Petersburg, 
 
78 
 
 some of perhaps eight pages ; that there would be three or four times a 
 communication to the Russian Government, and every week perhaps three 
 despatches written to some consuls in Russia ; and I think that the ambas- 
 sador writing the drafts, with a secretary of embassy and two second secre- 
 taries to copy them, could very well do that work. 
 
 4639. You do not consider that there is anything that should be con- 
 sidered degrading or improper on the part of a secretary of legation who 
 did take his share in the work? — No, because a great many of them do it 
 from choice. For instance, when I was at Constantinople, Mr. Erskine 
 used to come and work in the chancellerie. 
 
 4642. And the effect of that would be to lessen the stress on the staff ? 
 — Evidently you would require a smaller staff. 
 
 4659. Do you think that anything is gained by hospitality on the 
 part of the ambassador ? — Very little, I should think. As he is living 
 there he must entertain to a certain reasonable extent ; he has colleagues 
 who ask him to dinner, and he would naturally ask them back ; there are 
 a certain number of persons who are in the habit of entertaining him in 
 the town, and he would ask them back ; this is necessary, just as a person 
 in London who is in the habit of going out to dinner and is supposed to be 
 well off, is expected to return civilities. 
 
 4660. Mr. Otway.'] Do you really think that the expenditure of an 
 entertainment at Paris would be fairly represented by your description of 
 a few candles and a few ices V — ^Do you mean a simple reception ? 
 
 4661. An evening entertainment? — Certainly I do. 
 
 4662. You consider that a fair description of the expenditure that is 
 put on the ambassador by an evening entertainment at Paris? — Iishould 
 say that the fair description would be candles, ices, tea and coffee. 
 
 4663. Mr. Rylands.'] In the case of Washington, where you were 
 placed, the state of society is a good deal different from that of Paris, and 
 I should like to have your judgment on the entertainment of the British 
 minister there, as to how far it is desirable ? — ^There I think a good deal is 
 gained by it. 
 
 4664. With reference to the general work of the mission at Washing- 
 ton, from your experience there, have you formed any idea as to the amount 
 of work that^ they do ? — When I was there you had to have a large staff, 
 because the mails only came in once a week, and everything had to be 
 done between the time that the boat came in and the time that the boat 
 went out, about 24 or 36 hours, consequently we very often had to work 
 all night. 
 
 4666. In reference to Washington, I gather that you think that, con- 
 sidering what is done by the British representative there, the salary is not 
 too large and the staff not too large? — The salary is not too large. I hap- 
 pened to be at Washington last October, and the cost of living is certainly 
 double what it is in England. 
 
 4667. In reference to the staff, what do you say ? — There was not too 
 large a staff when I was there ; I do not know what it is now. 
 
 4668. Now the staff consists, in addition to the minister, of a secretary 
 of legation, two second secretaries, two third secretaries, and a naval 
 attach^ ? — Probably they could do with one less. 
 
 4670. With reference to the other embassies, you have been connected 
 with the staff at Constantinople comparatively lately ; I should like to have 
 your opinion, from your knowledge of the work there, whether the staff 
 could have been reduced ? — When I was at Constantinople I never arrived 
 at the bottom of that staff ; I never could find out how many there were, 
 there were so many ; there were dragomans, and chiefs of the chancellerie, 
 and private secretaries, and persons who seemed to be a species of connect- 
 
79 
 
 ing links between the consulates and the embassy ; but it was difficult to 
 find out how many there really were. 
 
 4671. Mr. Otway.'] Have you any experience at all as to Constantinople? 
 were you there any tune ? — I was there about eight months. 
 
 4679. Your information and mine are inaccurate, I think, as to the 
 point of time : as far as I am informed, you could not have been at Con- 
 stantinople more than two months. — Well, eight months is too long. I was 
 a certain length of time at Constantinople before they went down to The- 
 rapia, and I stopped on, if I remember right, till August at Therapia. 
 
 4680. Would you like to correct your statement that you were there 
 eight months ? — Yes, I correct that statement. 
 
 4708. Mr. Eylands.'] Practically there was little or nothing at Munich 
 for the minister to do 1 — little or nothing. 
 
 4710. What had you to do at Munich as attach^ ? — I was the only 
 person there for inost of the time besides the minister. I had to sit in for 
 about an hour every morning, in order to viae passports, because aU the 
 passports of English travellers going towards Austria had to be vised. 
 At present passports are not vised, and so I presume there is absolutely 
 nothing to do. 
 
 4712. But, at the same time, I presume there was a secretary of legation 
 and a second secretary ? — ^There was a secretary of legation, but he was 
 away on leave. I think the second secretary, who was then called a paid 
 attache, was away on leave. There was myself and another gentleman, 
 Mr. Lonsdale, who was there, an invalid. 
 
 4714. Viscount Barrington.'] How long were you there? — I was on 
 leave some time : I suppose I was there eight months. 
 
 4721. You were also at Stockholm? — Yes. 
 
 4722. I suppose there there was very much the same sort of thing as 
 at Munich ? — Yes, it was very much the same sort of thing. 
 
 4726. Mr. Rylands.'] I presume that in none of these replies do you 
 impute any neglect of duty ? — Not at all ; all I want to do is to point out 
 that there is nothing to do ; the ministers do most conscientiously anything 
 they are called upon to do. 
 
 4728. Then the other mission at which you were placed was at Dresden? 
 —Yes. 
 
 4729. I should like, to ask whether anything was done in that mission 
 by you ? — ^No, there was no business done. There are a great many Eng- 
 lish residents at Dresden, and there was a great deal of notarial work done 
 in the legation. 
 
 4730. Viscount Barrington.'] How long were you there ? — I suppose 
 about eight months ; I put down eight months round for all these 
 places. 
 
 4731. Mr. Ryhmds.'] You say notarial work ; I suppose that is the 
 sort of work that would be done by a consul or vice-consul? — Yes. 
 
 4732. There was no consul at Dresden while you were there ? — No. 
 4743. Then it is your opinion that in regard to the Principalities and 
 
 Duchies, it would be sufficient to have a consul-general at some central point 
 and vice-consuls ? — ^In point of fast, at all these places, with the exception of 
 Madrid and Florence, and one or two places where there are really great and 
 important interests, all you want is a charge d'afiaires and consul-general, 
 the species of diplomatic agent that is employed in the South American 
 Bepublics ; their staff generally consists of one vice-consul. 
 
 4746. Do you see any reason why the diplomatic and consular services 
 should not be amalgamated ? — I think that it would be a great advantage 
 to amalgamate them. 
 
 4748. The following plan will, if carried out, put an end to much waste 
 
80 
 
 o£ public money, and increase the efficiency of the diplomatic and consular 
 services. The diplomatic, the consular, and the Foreign Office services 
 shall henceforward be amalgamated. The staff of the amalgamated services 
 shall consist of three classes of officials. Class 1 shall consist of secretaries 
 of embassy and of legation, of consuls holding first-class consulates, and 
 of senior and assistant Foreign Office clerks ; class 2, of second secretaries 
 in the diplomatic service, consuls holding second-class consulates, and 
 junior first and second class Foreign Office clerks ; class 8, of vice-consuls, 
 third secretaries in the diplomatic service and attaches, and third-class 
 clerks in the Foreign Office. All those whose services are not required 
 will be allowed to retire upon the terms which, under similar circumstances, 
 were offered to clerks in the War Office. Of course if you do away with 
 the different great prizes in the diplomatic service, you have to give a fair 
 remuneration to the public servanta, and I think that is a fair remuneration 
 with the additional 10/. a year. 
 
 4757. Why, do you suppose, are special missions sent when we have 
 ambassadors and ministers abroad that might convey the honour? — I 
 presume that it is because there are a number of noblemen and others who 
 belong either to one party or to the other party who occasionally want a 
 sop, and they are sent off with these things. There is not the slightest 
 result from sending them, except the waste of money and the advan^ge to 
 themselves of taking a little journey abroad, and taking their cousins with 
 them, being given an order or decoration themselves, perhaps. 
 
 The Kight Honourable Sir Henry Earle Lttton Bulwer, G.C.B. 
 
 4828. Chiirman.'] Do you consider it an accurate representation to say 
 that the ambassador at Constantinople can live comfortably upon 2,000f. 
 or 3,000/. a year ? — I should say not from my own experience. I can only 
 say that my ordinary house expenses were never less than 460/. to 600/. a 
 month, without including extras and many things not entering into 
 monthly expenses. 
 
 4829. Then your experience is not in conformity with such a statement 
 as that? — Of course there are ways of living. At Constantinople you 
 are put in a very large palace, and it requires a great effort to live in 
 such a palace within the salary, and I do not think I ever did. 
 
 4880. I think you were a minister at Madrid for a considerable period ? 
 —Yes. 
 
 4831. With reference to the salary of the minister there, should you say 
 that it was more than adequate to meet the necessary demands upon the 
 head of the mission ? — I think that it a man had nothing to do but to look 
 after his expenses, he might live cheaper than he does, but considering how 
 much his occupations engross his time and mind, I don't think he can live 
 for less, even without going to any very extraordinary display, but I must 
 say that much depends upon management. 
 
 4838. What is your opinion generally with regard to the remuneration 
 of the diplomatic service ; should you say that it was more than adequate, 
 or on the whole fairly adequate, or inadequate ? — Of course this depends 
 very much on the position you intend a minister or ambassador to keep up. 
 With my own views as to the manner in which a minister or ambassador 
 should live, I should say they are not overpaid. 
 
 4835. You have heard in this Committee a great deal said of the block 
 at present in promotion ; you are aware, no doubt, generally, that there is 
 such a stoppage in the rise in the profession? — ^I think there has been a 
 great deal of exaggeration about that, because I remember that in my time, 
 even taking those who were most fortunate, and who went through the 
 grades of the profession, they rose very slowly. 
 
81 
 
 4841. You think that the old system was a preferable one ? — I do, much. 
 
 4847. Would you recommend that the practice should be reversed then, 
 and that we should aim at going back more to the old system ? — I certainly 
 should ; if you wish to have economy combined with work, I should cer- 
 tainly say that having unpaid attaches was a very good plan ; and it was a 
 very good plan for another reason, namely, that you saw whether these 
 gentlemen would wish to remain in the profession, and also it was seen 
 whether they were iit for it ; whereas now a man very often goes into it, 
 and when he has spent a certain time about it he finds that it does not suit 
 him at all ; and it is sometimes found that he does not suit it at all. 
 
 4848. Then do I rightly understand that you would suggest removing 
 the entrance examination altogether ? — No ; I would have an entrance 
 examination, but I would not have a very severe one. 
 
 4850. I rather gather from you that you would not be in favour of in- 
 troducing a system of competition for entering into the service? — I think 
 that there is a great deal to be said on both sides ; but I think that there is 
 a great deal to be said, which has not been said, against competition alto- 
 gether. In all the countries I have visited I have found the thing most 
 detrimental to society and to the public service was a passion amongst the 
 public generally for Government places, and I am afraid that we are intro- 
 ducing into the public here, judging from the letters I have seen as a 
 Member of Parliament, a general desire amongst all classes to get their 
 sons into public offices ; once in the inferior grades of the different depart- 
 ments, their advance is very much limited, and whatever talent and spirit 
 they had originally, which they might have carried into other ranks of life, 
 is absorbed and often nuUified in mere official routine. Moreover I think, 
 we shall end in this manner, by making the public service more expensive, 
 because the public will be more interested m having a great number of 
 places, and having the persons who are in them well paid. Thus I am not 
 very favourable to competition for Government places in general ; in other 
 departments, and in diplomacy particularly, I do not think it would 
 answer, because you cannot test by competitive examination the fitness of 
 a man for diplomacy. 
 
 4853. Should you say that the men who distiaguished themselves most 
 at the university were men markedly superior in respect to those charac- 
 teristics to which you have referred as needed in the diplomatic service ? 
 
 There is the old saying of Dr. Johnson's, " What becomes of all the clever 
 boys?" I can only say for myself, that I was at Harrow five years, which 
 is not a university, but is something like one, and there is not one of the 
 very clever boys I remember there who has ever done anything in public 
 life, or in life at all, I should say. I do not think that remarkably clever 
 boys often prove superior men in public life. 
 
 4858. Then you would make the door, as I understand, to let in such 
 men a pretty wide one? — Certainly; I can never agree in diplomacy being 
 an exclusive profession, because I could find many men in a drawing-room 
 in London who were perhaps more fit than any one that I could find in the 
 profession for great posts, at particular moments ; but I think it is fair 
 that people who have served for a long time in a profession should be 
 employed in the higher grades if they are fit for them, I wish, however 
 to point out one thing which it is necessary to remember relative to that ■ 
 you must consider that the foreign minister in every country is certainly 
 one of the first men in that country ; therefore the men who have to deal- 
 with him should be more or less men of equal capacity and calibre • well I 
 say that of ten men who go into diplomacy, there certainly is not above 
 one who is fit to be intellectually upon par with the best men in the country ' 
 (I am speaking of the great countries of Europe) to which he is sent. 
 
82 
 
 4859. You mean when he has risen to a certain position in the service ? 
 — Yes, that is my argument against seniority. 
 
 4860. I understand you then to disapprove of its being an exclusive 
 profession, and of the terms of promotion being wholly by seniority? 
 — Yes. 
 
 4881. Can you enumerate to us what you think would be a competent 
 staff for the larger missions? — I think a secretary of embassy, a paid 
 attache, and an archivist ; allowing the ambassador a private secretary if 
 he wanted one, and unpaid attaches if required. A second secretary might 
 be allowed at iParis, with the permission of the foreign minister. 
 
 4883. You are in favour of the suggestion made to us of having some 
 sort of interchange between the Foreign Office and the diplomatic 
 service? — Yes, I do not know whether I would have a constant interchange, 
 because men get more fit for the employments to which they are most used, 
 and I have no doubt that the clerks in the Foreign Office are better fitted 
 for the Foreign Office, from having been so much in it ; and the same, 
 perhaps, applies to the members of the corps diplomatique; but I think 
 that there are occasions when it would be very desirable to have some men 
 from the Foreign Office sent out to foreign missions, and even when 
 gentlemen employed at foreign missions should work for a time in the 
 Foreign Office. 
 
 4884. As far as rising from one step to the other goes, the reports of 
 gentlemen when they are secretaries of legation, and examinations, if you 
 have them, all more or less, are something to go by ; but then I think there 
 should be added to them something else, which is the opinion given, upon 
 his honour, by the head of the mission or missions where these gentlemen 
 have been. 
 
 4886. We have had a suggestion made that it would be very advisable 
 to have a very high leaping-bar, as it were, put up for all the gentlemen 
 who want to get to the higher grades to get over before they can get pro- 
 motion ; would that be desirable in your view ? — I do not think so, because 
 if you have passed the best examination you coxild pass, it would not be a 
 proof that you were a good man for an important situation as a diplo- 
 matist. 
 
 4887. Viscount Barringtov .'] You would leave that part of it to the 
 responsibility of the foreign minister ? — I am very much for leaving as 
 much responsibility as possible to the ambassador, in his particular situation, 
 and as much responsibility as possible to the minister, as the administrator 
 of his department. 
 
 4888. Chairman.'] But what would you do with respect to these 
 gentlemen who are more or less failures, though probably each man him- 
 self thinks that he is entitled to get on in the profession ? — ^The Minister 
 for Foreign Affairs undertakes the task, and must undertake the responsi- 
 bility, of being Minister for Foreign Affairs, and he will generally be. backed 
 by the profession. But I think there should be a tendency to allow people 
 to rise up to a certain rank by seniority, if they do not do anything amiss, 
 and then if they remain in that rank and are not promoted further, I think 
 after a period of eight or nine years, or something of that kind, they might 
 have their option of retiring on a suitable pension or going on. 
 
 4889. Theji I rather collect that you have a strong opinion against a 
 mere seniority profession ? — ^I think it is the ruin of any profession, and 
 particularly the diplomatic. nue or 
 
 4896. Chairman.'] What do you say to the transfere . the junior 
 members of the diplomatic profession from one mission to *"* her, by way 
 of enlarging their experience ? 
 
 4897. Of course everything may be carried to an extreme ; but it is an 
 
83 
 
 immense advantage both to the ambassador and to the service to have 
 people who are well acquainted with the country they reside in. 
 
 4898. Are not some diplomatic positions considered more eligible in 
 locality than others for those in the profession, and would it not create 
 jealousy if some favoured gentlemen were in some favoured spots and the 
 rest were banished to a remote corner of the world ? — You cannot get any- 
 thing satisfactory to everybody, and I am not for trying to do so ; I look to 
 the service and not to the individual. 
 
 4901. We have had a good deal suggested to ua with respect to the 
 relative position of the consular and diplomatic services, and we have had 
 the suggestion made that it would be advisable for the good of the service 
 generally that there should be something more of amalgamation between 
 the two ; what is your opinion on that point ? — I cannot say that I agree 
 in that ; I think that it would ead in the first place in this, either that the 
 consuls would be absorbed by the attaches and diplomacy, which is most 
 likely, as they are the strongest body, or the consuls would get into diplo- 
 matic posts, for which their education and training as consuls do not fit 
 them. I think that the knowledge that you want in a consul is local 
 knowledge. I am quite against that suggestion. 
 
 4905. With reference to the consuls general, they are more in the 
 capacity of diplomatic servants ? — Yes, nevertheless I think that they should 
 belong to the consular service. 
 
 4906. Viscount Barrington.'} Then I understand that you would admit 
 consuls general into the diplomatic service, but not consuls ? — ^I would not 
 refuse consuls if they were thought fit for it ; but it is in places, like those of 
 the consuls generals being promoted there as consuls, that consular officers 
 can show diplomatic capacity. This permits men of the one service to enter 
 the other, but I should not amalgamate the two services and make the one 
 constantly running into the other. 
 
 4907. Chairman.l We have rather had the thing put in the other 
 direction, that it would be a good thing for the - public service to shunt 
 diplomatists who did not get on well in the diplomatic profession into con- 
 sulates ; what is your view on that ? — Young diplomatists would make bad 
 consuls, and worse if they were merely consuls for a time to come back as 
 diplomatists. 
 
 4913. I need not ask you whether the American representatives in ", 
 Europe play the same important part in the public affairs of Europe that , 
 the English representatives do generally? — In Europe, in general, the J 
 American diplomatist comes into the field with a great advantage that ; 
 we have not. He says if you do not do so-and-so I know what will hap- 
 pen, and he can threaten and he will be generally supported by his country 
 in threatening, whereas the English diplomatist knows that if he 
 threatens he will be disapproved. Holding stronger language, the American 
 diplomatists are sometimes more attended to than ours, therefore they have 
 that advantage ; but as individuals, not being so well acquainted with *j 
 Europe, nor so well trained for diplomacy, they are generally inferior as ' 
 diplomatists to ours. 
 
 4930. I gather generally from your answers that you have a decided 
 opinion that the Secretary of State should be vested with the very highest 
 degree of discretion, and full power in the selection of his instruments ; 
 that is the keystone of your system ? — Yes, and I think that he should 
 consult to a great degree with the ambassador, who should also have the 
 responsibility thrown upon him, 
 
 4937. I think you said that you considered that a great embassy was 
 the true' high school for diplomacy ?— That and the Foreign Office. 
 
 4938. Do you think that any advantage would be derived if the heads 
 
84 
 
 of departments in the Fpreign Office were, for a year or two, employed in 
 these great embassies, so as to acquire greater insight into the peculiar 
 matters that come under their consideration in the Foreign Office ? — I think 
 it ■would be, if it could be managed without detriment to the service of the 
 Foreign Office. 
 
 4942. In the French service there is a very close amalgamation between 
 the consular and the diplomatic services, is there not? — Not very close; 
 but the French consuls are more political and less commercial than ours. 
 
 4943. You think that detrimental? — I do; upon the vfhole, 1 think our 
 own consuls, as consuls for our work, much better than the French. 
 
 4944. I tbink that you laid stress upon public law being included in 
 our examination ? — In the second examination. 
 
 4945. I suppose you meant thereby to imply that it is not sufficiently 
 developed in our present examination? — From what I understand- it is 
 not. 
 
 4946. And it is of very great importance in diplomacy? — Certainly; 
 it accustoms men to consider what is right ; it habituates their minds to 
 consider what is equitable, and then you can judge nearly all questions by 
 that test. 
 
 5122. Mr. Easiwick.J I think also you are in favour of giving still 
 greater power of choice to the Secretary of State, with a view to his filling 
 up the higher appointments in the servije, not according to seniority, but 
 according to his view of what is best for the public service? — He has that 
 power, but I am in favour of his exercising it ; and I think that the abne- 
 gation of that exercise by merely naming people in rotation necessarily 
 entails that out of every four that you name to a post of any mark you 
 name three who are inefficient. 
 
 5123. I think that any persons who had not obtained promotion, or 
 were not satisfied with the situation which they held, after a certain 
 number of years in a subordinate post, ought to have an opportunity of re- 
 tiring upon a very fair and adequate allowance. I said before, I think, and 
 that perhaps best explains my idea, that to be really minister of England, 
 at a post of any importance, is a situation which requires a man of very 
 considerable ability ; he is matched there with the first men in the country 
 to which he goes ; I do not think that every man who goes into diplomacy 
 is a man of considerable ability, and therefore 1 think it very advantageous 
 that before he gets to that post which requires considerable ability there 
 should be some way of letting that gentleman escape fairly and honourably, 
 but still escape from a situation which he is not competent to fill. 
 
 5127. I think that it is more advantageous for the country to pay a 
 certain sum and to get lid of a man, than to pay a great deal more, and to 
 have him in a post where he may do you a great deal of mischief. It is a 
 choice between difficulties ; but when I say a certain sum, of course I only 
 say that loosely and iudffinitelj ; it would be for the Minister of Foreign 
 Affairs consulting with the House of Commons, and the general feeling of 
 the service, to determine what it should be; I merely lay down the 
 principle. 
 
 5129. There has been a new regulation established, which I think, as a 
 regulation, is exceedingly bad — ^viz., that gentlemen should be moved after 
 a very short period of time. 
 
 5137. With regard to the Persian transfer, when you were Ambassador 
 at Constantinople, were there many matters connected with Persia referred 
 to you ? — Yes, several ; one or two which I settled when war was impending. 
 
 6138. Questions of frontier, I think ?^ — Yes; in fact, in one case, I 
 think the Fertians had advanced over the line of frontier claimed by the 
 Turks. I certainly felt it easier to settle those questions, knowing that the 
 
85 
 
 Persian question would be referred to the minister under whose department 
 I was. I should not have been so perfectly at home if I had thought that 
 it depended upon the Indian Board. My idea in regard to the Persian 
 Mission is, that it is better to leave it under the Foreign Office, but that 
 the Foreign Office ought to consult the India Office, and that great deference 
 should be paid to their recommendation as to the class of persons best fitted 
 to be employed there. 
 
 5146. You strongly recommend recurrence to the old practice of the 
 ambassador having a private secretary? — Yes, I am satisfied that where 
 there was much to do that would be the best way of getting it donei. 
 
 5162. But would you not adopt some means by which the incompe- 
 tency of persons in the diplomatic service should be found out and tested 
 before they arrived at the position of secretary of legation? — I do not 
 know that I would, because my experience tells me that j ou never know 
 'vrhat a man is until he is tried. Responsibility is the great test of capacity 
 for action. 
 
 5165. You might be able to test certain qualities, but there is the 
 quality of action, which you never can test till the man is in action. 
 There is prompt decision, seeing clearly what you want to do, and a 
 variety of things of that kind, which you really cannot test till you see a 
 man in a responsible situation. 
 
 5166. I could detect incompetency, but I could not be certain as to 
 full competency until it was tried. 
 
 5174. The Foreign Office acts on the principle that in Downing-atreet" 
 they are able to deal with all questions absolutely, and instruct our repre- 
 sentatives abroad, almost to the minute method of dealing with everything 
 that arises? — If a man passes all his life at the desk, he forms an over- 
 estimate of what can be done by merely writing a despatch, and an under- 
 estimate of what can be done when the despatch gets to the place which 
 it is destined for. He, of course, thinks that everything depends upon 
 the despatch. My experience tells me that nearly everything depends 
 upon the man to whose hands that despatch goes. 
 
 5179. -Mr. Rylajids ] . I think I understood that, at all events, in your 
 opinion, if the head of the mission had perfect control, and if the subordi- 
 nates depended upon his judgment in reference to their future career, the 
 probability is that there would not be such difficulties? — I would not 
 even go so far as that, because the head of the mission is liable to be mis- 
 taken as weU as anybody else ; therefore I would say that it should not 
 altogether depend upon him, and it should not be altogether irrespective of 
 him. A man should not be able to go to a mission and say, " All I have 
 to do is to please the Foreign Office ; it does not matter whether the chief 
 is pleased or not," 
 
 5182. In your judgment it is very important that by some means or 
 other we should have at the head of our missions abroad men of very 
 distinguished ability and high public character ? — I think that a man in 
 a great position abroad, as representing a country like England, ought to 
 be a man of.mark, even independently of his partictilar position of ambas- 
 sador ; he should ccmfer something upon the rank of ambassador whilst 
 the rank of ambassador confers somethiDg on him. 
 
 5183. ITiat would lead you to thmk it desirable that public men of 
 position should be from time to time appointed to the principal embassies ? 
 — I certainly should not exclude them ; at the same time I think that it 
 wovdd be very unfair if competent men could be found in the profession 
 in which they had spent a great part of their lives, if they had not a 
 fair consideration of their merits when any vacancy occurred; if they 
 were competent, I think they should have the preference ; if you take a 
 
86 
 
 competent man ■who has lived abroad, and knows the languages and the 
 mind, I may say, of the people on the Continent, I should say that that 
 man, if his abilities were equal to it, would be a better man to carry 
 on a negotiation abroad than a person even of rather higher ability who 
 had merely led a political life in England. 
 
 5184. With regard to the influence of the Foreign Office upon our 
 diplomatic representatives, do you think that there would be any improve- 
 ment secured in that respect if the political Under Secretary took a higher 
 position in relation to the management of the Foreign Oflice as the second 
 to the Foreign Secretary 1: — It certainly appears to me that, inasmuch as 
 the political Under Secretary of State is in the House of Commons or in the 
 other House of Parliament, and therefore represents the Government in that 
 position, he ought to have a higher place in the Foreign Office than the 
 permanent Under Secretary ; I do not know that I am qualified to give a 
 very good opinion on that point, but that is my impression. 
 
 6186. Amongst the points which you were good enough to suggest for 
 our examination there was a question as to the position of the heads of 
 missions as ambassadors or charges d'affaires. I presume that with regard 
 to the great posts you would be of opinion that ambassadors should always 
 be appointed to the great courts? — Yes. 
 
 5187. Then, with regard to the smaller courts, is it your judgment that 
 it is necessary to have a minister in all the smaller courts of Europe, or do 
 you think that it would be sufficient to have a charge d'aifaires, and to send 
 a minister on special occasions : take, for instance, Sweden, Denmark, and 
 others of the smaller courts in Europe ? — I think that you must regulate 
 your conduct a little by what other Governments do in that respect. If I 
 saw any economy to be practised it would be more by uniting missions 
 under one head, and having persons stationed at the different places which 
 were incorporated, as it were, in that mission, and who would be con- 
 sidered as jjelonging to that mission. 
 
 5188. Let us take — I speak, however, rather loosely, because I do not 
 feel confident that my opinion is a sound one on that matter — ^two countries 
 like Holland and Belgium. It certainly is our policy, and the policy of 
 those two countries, that they should be firmly united together, and that 
 they should be able, in case of any European struggle, to act together. I 
 do not know whether, if you had an eminent man representing us at these 
 two courts, going alternately to one and the other, with an able secretary 
 at one of them, your object and the interests of those two countries would 
 not be better carried out than by having two ministers who did not much 
 correspond with each other, and might take a different tone, and have a 
 different mind, the one from the other. 
 
 . 5198. With regard to Constantinople, we have had the subject of the 
 expenditure there before us ; I suppose you agree that we can do with a 
 less staff at Constantinople than the staff which at present exists there ? — 
 I have always thought one of the gentlemen employed there is perfectly 
 
 5199. Is that the Oriental Secretary? — Yes. 
 
 5200. With reference to the dragomans, is it not the fact that the com- 
 munications between the embassy and the Porte, through the dragomans, 
 were formerly of a much more confidential character than is now the case ? 
 — Your head dragoman must be in your confidence ; I think that Sir Henry 
 Plliot spoke very well about that, and very truly, when he said that he 
 knows so much of what you are doing, that it is much better not to dis- 
 guise from him anything. 
 
 5201. You would not say that as to any but the head dragoman ? — Only 
 as to the head dragoman. 
 
87 
 
 5202. There are, I believe, three dragomans ; would you think it neces- 
 sary to keep up that staff ? — ^I cannot say, because nearly all the dragomans 
 are employed on private business, business of claims, and things of that 
 kind ; the only one employed about public diplomatic business would be the 
 head dragoman ; what I think would be very beneficial, in fact, I recom- 
 mended it strong'ly at the time, would be to have the consular and the 
 dragomanio services intermingled ; it very often happens that you wish to 
 get rid of a dragoman ; he might do very well with one minister at the 
 Porte, but does ill with his successor ; in fact, you are-not perfectly satisfied 
 with him, but there are not sufficient grounds to send him away, and to 
 deprive him of his employment ; it would be a great advantage in that 
 case if you were able to name him to some consulate, and then you might 
 make some consul your dragoman-. 
 
 5215. You are strongly of opinion that the house at Constp,ntinople 
 must be rebuilt ? — I think there must be a house for the embassy. 
 
 Mk. Charles Heneage. 
 
 4947. Mr. Otway.'] You are a secretary of legation at Munich, are 
 you not? — I am third secretary at Munich. 
 
 4948. Did you hear Mr. Labouohere's evidence with regard to the work 
 of the legaltion at Munich ? — I did. 
 
 4949. Is that, in your opinion, in any way a correct representation of 
 the work that is done at the legation there ?-=-It is not a correct represen- 
 tation of the work at present at Munich. 
 
 4950. Would you give a short description of the work of a secretary of lega- 
 tion at Munich, taking your own case last year ? — I arrived there last year ; 
 shortly after my arrival the other two secretaries went on leave, and I was 
 there alone with the minister. I was on duty every day according to our 
 regulations shortly before 11 to 2 ; I was busy almost the whole time with 
 people coming in and different things and so on ; and all my leisure time 
 at home was occupied with translations of different things ; I had no leisure 
 time at all for nearly two months and a half. 
 
 4951. How many reports were you engaged on at the same time? — ^The 
 first secretary was away ; I was busy with a report on military education in 
 Bavaria, which has since been published by the War Office. I had the 
 translations' to make of aU the theological papers of Dr. Dbllinger about 
 the (Ecumenical Council ; we sent the original home with the translations ; 
 those translations are very difficult and require great care. I made also 
 a transition of a very elaborate report by Dr. Mayer, a very important 
 matter, and other private things. 
 
 4952. Could you give any account of the number of despatches written 
 at Munich ? — I think that Sir Henry Howard gives full details of everything 
 that goes on at Munich ; I think that there are something like 300 de- 
 spatches a year. Those are principally political despatches ; we also have 
 commercial ones. 
 
 The Eight Hon. John Laird Mair, Bakon Lawrence, G.C.B. 
 
 4970. Chairman.] A great part of the value of our having any 
 relation at all with Persia depends upon our Indian Empire? — ^I 
 think so. 
 
 4971. Have you ever given your attention to the question whether it 
 was expedient that it should remain under the Foreign Office, or that it 
 should be under the direction of the Indian Secretary of State ? — ^Yes ; I 
 have thought over the matter. 
 
 4972. Have you come to any clear conclusion as to which you think is 
 
88 
 
 the best coarse ? — ^Yes ; I think that, on the whole, it is best that it should 
 be under the Secretary of State for India. 
 
 4974. Had you direct authority in any way over the Persian Miaaion in 
 case of emergency ? — No, none whatever ; we could communicate, of 
 course. 
 
 4975. Whatever you wished, ormight have wished, to have done in Persia, 
 with reference to Indian interests, would have to be communicated home, 
 and then to be sent out from here to Persia ? — Yes. 
 
 4976. Have you ever had occasion to think that the public service was 
 at all damnified by a want of direct communication between the Governor 
 General and the Persian Mission, either in point of despatch or in point 
 of efficient discharge of any duty? — ^I cannot say that in my time it 
 was so. 
 
 4978. Should you say that a man who had been accustomed to Eastern 
 courts is a better man for the purpose of dealing with an Eastern despot 
 and his Government than one who had been accustomed to the more 
 civihsed courts of the West? — I should say so. 
 
 4979. From his familiarity with the habits, and language and modes of 
 thought of Orientals generally? — Yes. 
 
 4980. Then 1 rather gather that if the Persian Mission was composed of 
 gentlemen who had that familiarity from previous experience with Eastern 
 liabits and Eastern courts, instead of being composed of European diplo- 
 matists, if one may use the phrase, your objection to having the Foreign 
 Office in superintendence of the Persian Mission might to a certain extent 
 be obviated ? — To a certain extent. 
 
 4981. Matters of general policy, with reference to our mode of dealing upon 
 great questions with the Persian court, of course, would be settled here by the , 
 Cabinet after communication between the two Secretaries of State? — Yes, 
 of course, the poUcy would, but the mode in which that policy was carried 
 out when settled would very much depend upon the individual man there, 
 and whether that man had been trailed so as to be able readily to acquire 
 a knowledge of the character of the people of that country. But then I 
 think that beyond that, though the policy would be settled at home, the 
 Secretary of State in England would be very much guided in his policy 
 by the views of the man who was in Persia, particularly if he was a very 
 able man. 
 
 4982. You think that the eyes and ears of the minister in the Persian 
 court would be more trained and skilled eyes and ears if he were an Indian 
 officer than if he were an. European diplomatist? — Yes, and those views 
 would influence the Secretary of State; he would be free to judge from 
 what was written to him or said to him, but he would be very much in- 
 fluenced by what he heard from the minister in Persia. If that man were 
 a person who thoroughly understood Asiatics and Orientals he would be 
 more likely to come to a true, safe, and sound conclusion than a man the 
 main portion of whose life had been spent in European courts. It is quite 
 one thing to deal with Europeans, and it is quite another thing to deal with 
 Asiatics. Then I think there is another important point. I should say 
 that if the minister in Persia is a gentleman whose chief time has been 
 spent in Europe, his views of questions bearing upon our interests in India 
 might be very different from the view of an officer of equal ability who had 
 been for years in India, and who was conversant with our border politics 
 on the frontiers of India, our relations with Affghanietan and Beloochistan, 
 and our communications with Central Asia. 
 
 4983. On the other hand, it has been suggested to us, that an Indian- 
 bred diplomatist would be more likely to look at our connection with 
 Persia wholly from an Indian point of view, and that- he would neglect 
 
89 
 
 conBiderations in relation to the weatern part of the -world ; that he would, 
 in fact, prefer Indian politics to the politics of the world? — My answer to 
 that would be, that when he came to deal with questions connected with 
 Turkey, and that side of Persia, he would find that they had no affinity 
 with questions connected with India and Central Asia ; he would therefore 
 deal with the one on principles suited to Turkey and that side of Persia, 
 principles separate and distinct from his mode of dealing with the other 
 class of cases. Questions in which we are interested for the sake of Turkey, 
 as connected with Persia, would not in any way be affected by our feelings 
 or views as regards India. 
 
 4987. Had you ever occasion to doubt whether the Indian policy, and 
 Indian interests and-views, were sufficiently regarded in the action of our 
 representative in Persia ; or would you have thought that somebody with a 
 greater knowledge of Eastern views and Eastern life would have been more 
 equal to the occasion ? — I should say that waj the case ; I-do not think 
 that the minister of late years in Persia understood altogether what were 
 reaUy the interests of British India, as connected with his position in 
 Persia ; and I do not think that he was able, from his position in Persia, to 
 gather that knowledge of Central Asia and Central Asian affairs that he 
 would have acquired had he been previously trained in India. 
 
 4988. I suppose, to a great extent, Persia and the Persian Court is a 
 kind of centre of intrigue for all the various interests aifeoting the West and 
 the East ? — I could not speak of that much, having never myself been in 
 Persia ; but whenever I looked at the question, I looked at it with refer- 
 ence to our tenure of India, and in that view I consider it most important 
 that the British minister in Persia should possess a large knowledge of India 
 and its circumstances. 
 
 4989. Have you a trained staff of skilled officers in India always available, 
 men who have been bred iu the functions of diplomacy ? — ^There are a large 
 number of officers of various ages and various periods of service in what is 
 called in Europe the diplomatic line, but which we term the political ser- 
 vice in India, these men generally serving at different native courts from 
 their earlier years. Many of them have been 25 or 30 years in different 
 diplomatic positions, so that they have had a complete training in diplo- 
 macy. 
 
 4990. Are these gentlemen shifted from one station to another, and are 
 they promoted from one post to another ? — Yes ; they are promoted in the 
 department. 
 
 4991. You have an enormous field from which to select. Among them 
 you could get men of known talents and known ability, and tried expe- 
 rience ; and I should say that, on the whole, you might select among them 
 men of greater fitness for service in Persia than you would, in the nature 
 of things, find among the men under the Foreign Office. 
 
 4995. I would say that the two persons, the minister in Persia and the 
 Governor General in India, being under the one Secretary of State, there 
 would be less liability of friction and more probability of unity of policy 
 and purpose, and system, under the one state of things, than under the other. 
 
 4998. I think that things would have worked more smoothly and more 
 satisfactorily on the whole for the public benefit if the Persian Mission had 
 been under the Secretary of State for India. The real question is, I sub- 
 mit, which arrangement is likely to answer best in times of trouble and 
 commotion. 
 
 5002. When I said that it was a different mode of dealing in the East, 
 I did not allude to giving presents or withholding them ; some diplomatists 
 think that it is of great importance to give and receive presents ; I confess 
 that I do not attach very much value to that. 
 
90 
 
 5004. Mr. W. Cartwright.'] If I understood rightly, what you mainly 
 pointed out in regard to Persia was, that it was a specific mission, requiring 
 specific qualifications? — ^Yes. 
 
 5005. And that is the principal point, I think, of your observation ? — 
 Yes, and that those specific qualifications are with reference to India, and 
 our interests in India. 
 
 5007. Therefore, if full discretion were given to the Secretary of State 
 at the head of the Foreign Office to select any instruments that he might 
 obtain in the service, there would not be so much objection to Persia re- 
 maining under the Foreign Office as at present ? — ^I do not think that that 
 would very much affect the question. The Secretary of State for Foreign 
 Affairs is in constant communication with the ministers in the different 
 courts of Europe ; well, if he wanted an able, good man for Persia, he 
 would naturally look among the lists of those gentlemen, and select the 
 best man that he could lay his hands upon for that particular post ; he 
 would not look to the Indian list of officers for such a man. 
 
 5013. There is one thing that I would like to say with regard to the 
 selection of officers, because that seems to me the grand question between 
 the advantages of having one Secretary of State and those of having 
 the other Secretary of State to control the Persian Mission. I said 
 that the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs would naturally look, in 
 making his selection, to the officers in immediate connection with his 
 department. Even if he wished to make a selection of an officer of mark 
 and distinction, who had served in India, he would hardly know of an 
 officer or be able to select one. As a general rule, with rare exceptions, he 
 would not know anything about the men who had served in India, whereas 
 the Secretary of State for India is daily and hourly reading despatches in 
 which the best officers of India are mentioned, and therefore their merits 
 and qualities are specially brought to his notice. A Secretary of State for 
 India who had been for any time in that office could probably tell off on his 
 fingers all the leading officers of distinction in India, whereas the Secretary 
 of State for Foreign Affairs would know nothing about them. 
 
 5014. Mr. R. Shaw.'] Am I right in assuming that the number of Euro- 
 pean questions arising at that mission is small in comparison with the 
 number of Indian questions? — ^I have no absolute personal knowledge of 
 the details of the Persian Mission, as I have never been in Persia. 
 
 5018. Mr. Eastu'ick.'] — Do you think that the progress of Russia in 
 Central Asia is likely to bring Persia more and more into the pale of Eu- 
 ropean influence ? — I can hardly form an opinion, and i should not like to 
 venture to express one on that point. 
 
 6019. The progress of Russia in Central Asia must of course render 
 the interests of India in Persia much graver and more important ?-^No 
 doubt, if Russia advances. 
 
 5026. Tour lordship would think it fair, I presume, that in the case of 
 Persia being re-transferred to the India Office, the Indian revenue should 
 bear the whole expenses ? — I do not see why India should pay the whole 
 expenses. As the mission in Persia is not entirely and solely for the 
 interests of India, but as it is admitted that to a certain extent it is for 
 European interests also, I think that England should pay a portion. 
 
 ,5027. You tbink that the present allotment of the expenses, which is 
 something like three-fourths, namely, 12,000Z. from India, would be a satis- 
 factory arrangement to remain ? — Yes ; I think that if it is altered at aU, 
 England ought to pay a little more rather than pay a little less. 
 
91 
 
 The Hon. Edward Robert Lytton. 
 
 5081. _ Chairman,'] Are you aware of there being a considerable amount 
 of dissatisfaction in your profession with the state of it, as regards pro- 
 motion ? — I think there is at this moment, undoubtedly, a feeling of great 
 discouragement in the junior branches of the service. 
 
 5034. Do you think that there is anything in a suggestion which has 
 been made to us, that some of the, junior members, or geutlemen rather in 
 a middle position in the profession, might be tempted to go for a con- 
 sideration, so as to relieve the block in that way? — There can be no doubt 
 that if those gentlemen were induced to go, there would be a great relief 
 to the pressure which is at present stopping the way. 
 
 50y5. It is represented to us as a sort of abandonment of hope amongst 
 the lower grades of the profession, because they see the upper grades filled 
 with very little chance of vacancies for their own promotion ; do you think 
 that a correct representation ? — Yes ; I fancy that that really is no exagge- 
 ration of the state of feeling ; and I must honestly say that as long as you 
 maintain the present system of promotion by seniority, I cannot see how 
 it is to be obviated. I think that a hard-and-fast system of seniority pro- 
 motion is very discouraging. 
 
 5036. You would prefer to see a selection made by the Secretary of State 
 on his own responsibility ? — Certainly ; I think that the responsibility of the 
 Secretary of State cannot be too complete ; the fewer rules that are made 
 by way of limiting it the better. 
 
 5039. We have had an opinion expressed to us on the part of some 
 great authorities that there might be a considerable diminution of the sub- 
 ordinate staff, with equal efficiency in the discharge of the duties of the 
 servants of the Crown ; should you be inclined to confirm that opinion 
 yourself , with your knowledge and experience? — The fact of the matter is, 
 that as tar as my own experience of a great mission or a.great embassy, 
 the work is of an exceedingly fluctuating character ; there are some momenta 
 when the strain is very strong, and there are other moments when work is 
 slack. Neither the periods in which work is heavy, nor the periods in 
 which work is light, can be foreseen ; consequently, if a pressure of work 
 occurs when the embassy or mission is under-staffed, no doubt that creates 
 a considerable amount of inconvenience. But in missions to which some 
 permanent officer is attached, I have generally found this inconvenience 
 much diminished. 
 
 5040. Then you would be in favour of a suggestion which has been 
 made to us, that it is desirable at the larger missions to have a gentleman 
 of the nature of a permanent officer connected with the mission ? — I think 
 that this would very much depend upon the frequency with which the 
 junior members of the service are moved from post to post. . I should not 
 say, from my own experience, that a man's diplomatic education is mate- 
 rially advanced by frequently moving him about whilst he is in the lower 
 grades of the service. 
 
 5045. That knowledge you would propose to aim at giving them by 
 fixing them more permanently at the missions than they are now? — ^Yes, 
 so far as such a system could be fairly and practically carried out, but I 
 entertain a great disinclination to any positive system of hard-and-fast 
 regulations in a service like diplomacy. I think the fewer rules the better 
 in every way. 
 
 5046. I was going to ask how you would get over the apparent hardship 
 of banishing one set of gentlemen to the minor missions, say in South 
 America or the East, some remote and unsatisfactory portion of the globe, 
 and sending the other and favoured set to the great missions? — Un- 
 
92 
 
 doubtedly that would be a hardship, and I do not think you can get 
 over it. 
 
 5049. With regard to the salaries of the diplomatic servants, we have 
 had very general complaints laid before us, in the despatches written in 
 answer to Lord Clarendon's Circular Despatch, of the deficiency of the 
 public pay, and the great rise of the prices which diplomatic servants 
 have to pay at times; do you concur in that? — Undoubtedly the value 
 of money has decreased, and prices have risen all over Europe very 
 much. 
 
 5052. It seems to me very desirable that in all branches of the service 
 diplomatists should be rather encouraged than discouraged to retremper 
 themselves as often as possible in English ideas by intercourse with their 
 own country. 
 
 5055. I am not aware of the total niunber of unpaid attaches in the 
 profession, but it certainly does not appear to me that it would be desir- 
 able to have an arbitrary limitation of admissions into the service ; that is 
 a question which can be best judged of exclusively by the Secretary of 
 State himself. 
 
 5066. The whole of your view, as I understand, rather hangs upon 
 that point of leaving the Secretary of State to his responsibility and not 
 fettering him by fixed rules? — Certainly. 
 
 5058. As secretary of embassy, do you consider that it is part of your 
 duty to do any work in the chancellerie, or that it is merely your duty to 
 make your reports, and to superintend the staff subordinate to you ? — 
 Again, with regard to that, I come back to wha^ I have been saying as to 
 the practical impossibility of laying down fixed rules ; I think that the 
 organisation of the work must be very much left to the peculiar circum- 
 stances of it. I may say, with regard to myself, that I have frequently 
 copied out despatches and done mechanical work in the chancery, both as 
 secretary of legation and as secretary of embassy ; but, as a general rule, 
 I should certainly feel much surprise and some resentment if my chief, or 
 the embassy in general, were to expect that, as a matter of course, I should 
 employ myself in the mechanical work of the chancery, for which it appears 
 to me the staff of the chancery should be sufficient. 
 
 5060. I have found generally that the secretaries of legation were 
 perfectly willing to do any amount of work in the chancery that was neces- 
 sary under a pressure. 
 
 5062. Viscount Barrington.'] I suppose that as you are in favour of a 
 considerable amount of leave being given, you would consider it right that 
 the present system of leave to the heads of missions should be made similar 
 to that granted to attaches ? — Decidedly so. 
 
 5070. I suppose you consider it very desirable that a young man in the 
 position of attach^ should go into society a great deal ? — I think it most 
 important. 
 
 5073. Are you satisfied with the present state of the examination for 
 the diplomatic service? —Well, if I may say so, I have no very great faith 
 in examinations of any kind. 
 
 5074. You would have a standard examination to keep out the ignorant ? 
 — I think so decidedly ; I have seen it mentioned that it was suggested by 
 Mr. Morier that fioman law should form the foundation of any system of 
 study for diplomacy ; and I most say I think myself it would be an im- 
 mense advantage to anyone in the diplomatic service to have a good know- 
 ledge of that subject. 
 
 5083. I have often felt strongly myself that it would be a great ad- 
 vantage to the foreign service if the heads of departments in the Foreign 
 Office were men who have nad personal experience of the practical 
 
93 
 
 conditions under which the instructions that issue from the Foreign 
 Office have to be carried out. I also think that it would improM the fibre 
 of the foreign service if it had a greater connection with the public life of 
 the country ; if, for example, the foreiga ministers and the secretaries of 
 embassy and legation were occasionally employed in the work of the office 
 at home. There are, no doubt, many adverse considerations to be borne in 
 mind ; but on general grounds my strong impression is that such a change, 
 if practicable, would be advantageous, and that the more the Foreign Office 
 can be internationalised, and the more the foreign service can be nation- 
 alised, the better it would be. 
 
 5C87. Then do you think that when you find fault with the principle of 
 seniority, that it is a feeling that is generally entertained by your contem- 
 poraries in the service ? — I should say that in the higher grades of the junior 
 members it was very strongly entertained ; in the initiatory ranks of the 
 service I think not. 
 
 5090. Do you think that the service is menaced with losing many of the 
 juniors or some of the juniors, in consequence of this block? — I think so; 
 three or four men have spoken to me with so much discouragement of 
 the prospect before them, that I think there is very considerable danger 
 of losing them, and they are among the very best men in the service. 
 
 5100. I should be very sorry to see the class of foreign servants too 
 greatly localised ; I think that they ought often to mix with people in their 
 own country ; but at the same time I think that considerable practical 
 inconveniences arise from coniinually changing the localicies in which the 
 junior members are employed. 
 
 6101. All that tends to show that it is very essential in this service to. 
 invest the Secretary of State with very great discretion ? — Undoubtedly ; 
 1 think that cannot be too much remembered. 
 
 5104. Have you observed at all whether the system prevails in the French 
 legations of having a permanent chancelier ? — Yes ; and 1 must say that my 
 strong impression is that he is a very useful person. 
 
 5108. Sir H. Lytton Bulwer.'] Mr. Cartwright asked you whether the 
 feeling amongst the junior members of diplomacy was favourable to the 
 principle of seniority or not ; I suppose that if you were to poll them, you 
 would find that the clever ones were not in favour of it, and that the stupid 
 ones were? — ^Precisely. 
 
 5109. Therefore it is a principle that acts in favour of the stupid ones, 
 and against the clever ones ? — Yes. 
 
 6241. Mr. A. Russell.'] You alluded in your previous evidence to the 
 general utility of a geutleman employed as translator at the Lisbon 
 Mission. Are we to understand from what you have said that the current 
 work of a diplomatic chancery can, in your opinion, be better performed 
 by copying clerks than by persons belonging to the social class from which 
 attaches are generally selected? — Certainly not ; and I am very glad of an 
 opportunity to correct any such impression, if L conveyed it to the mind of 
 the Committee. The sum total of what I would say is this, that I think 
 that there is a class of work at all our great missions which could be very 
 advantageously performed by gentlemen answering to the chanceliers in 
 the French service, but that I think it would be highly objectionable to 
 substitute copying clerks for the present secretaries and attaches in the 
 political and confidential work of our missions. 
 
 5242. Did I rightly understand you from your reply to Sir Henry Bui wer, 
 that the current work of our diplomatic establishments could be efficiently 
 performed by a smaller number of persons than is now geuerally employed 
 on that work?— Ko, that was not at all my meaning. The facts referred 
 to by Sir Henry Bulwer last Monday were all perfectly accurate. With 
 
94 
 
 regard to the staSa of our missions, generally speaking, I think it would 
 be most inadvisable to reduce them, and I should say it would be prac- 
 tically impossible to maintain them on the footing of a permanent 
 minimum. 
 
 5244. It appears to me much to be desired that the largest possible 
 number of our well-to-do youth, I mean the sort of young men who 
 eventually go into Parliament and the liberal professions at home, should 
 receive from the State every possible inducement, and every possible facility, 
 for acquiring at least some personal knowledge of the social and political 
 facts of foreign countries, and above all, for being able in this manner, 
 as it were, to re-import back into home society a feeling of intelligent 
 interest in foreign questions, and respect for foreign opinion. 
 
 5263. I should say that the two great desiderata are, on the one hand 
 to secure, or rather to restore, to the executive the most unlimited freedom, 
 not only, I should say, in the selection but also in the use and employment 
 of the instruments it has to work with ; and, on the other hand, to provide 
 the taxpayer, out of whose pocket the services are to be paid, with a 
 fair guarantee that the nation shall have a bond fide quid pro quo for the 
 money which it expends on the service. 
 
 5254. Then you would be clearly for increasing the strictness of the 
 examination? — If the examinations were not competitive, but were test 
 examinations, I think that that would be desirable ; though I still think 
 that in a service like ours the ultimate test must be responsibility, and the 
 proper ground for promotion success. 
 
 6255. Do you think that, supposing Government were to offer to grant 
 to those members of the diplomatic service who have served for 10 years, 
 a moiety of their pentions to retire upon, or a gratuity, many would retire ? 
 — If you mean in the minor grades of the service, I think there are a.good 
 many who would retire ; but I think tbat the danger in that would be, that 
 you might find the bad men willing to remaia on, and the good men willing 
 to go. 
 
 5256. Mr. Rylands.] You are quite of opinion, as I understand, that the 
 block which is complained of is a serious detriment to the service ? — I think 
 it is decidedly so, because it tends to perpetuate a tone of discouragement 
 and languor iu the service, and of course I think that that is a bad thing. 
 
 5258. I must fairly say, that I think it is advisable to deal in some way 
 with this discontent which is caused by what is "called the block in the ser- 
 vice ; but at the same time I think you must put out of your head altogether 
 the notion that you can organise and carry on efficiently a service like 
 diplomacy without disappointing a great number of aspirants. 
 
 5259. No doubt it is the fact that in all services there will be a certain 
 amount of disappointment ; yet I gather that in your opinion the present 
 arrangements are such as to create a maximum of disappointment ? — 
 Just so. 
 
 5263. Then I suppose you would think that the course which the Com- 
 mittee should take in vievsdng this question is to see whether there are no 
 means for reducing the number of juniors in relation to the senior appoint- 
 ments, and also for giving to the juniors a greater inducement in their 
 future prospects by opening to them the chance of success as the result of 
 their own exertions ? — Undoubtedly ; I think that is the problem to be 
 solved; you must always have a large number of juniors in the service, and 
 I think that I would have a maximum of unpaid attachfe, and only attempt 
 to limit the number of persons to whom the State as it were pledges itself 
 in any sort of way. 
 
 5269. I think that at present one of the advantages of the system of 
 the Foreign Office ia that the men who are in it have no sort of personal 
 
9.5 
 
 interest whatever for or against the advancement of the foreign servants of 
 the State. I think that that is an advantage which it is worth while to 
 bear in mind. 
 
 5270. Lord Cowley says, " I have made the foregoing remarks on the 
 supposition that the services at home and abroad, now under your Lordship's 
 direction, are to remain distinct ; but I must at the same time confess myr 
 self to be an advocate for their complete amalgamation. The clerks in Her 
 Majesty's Foreign Office would, I conceive, profit as much from aa occa- 
 sional residence abroad as the secretaries and attaches of Her Majesty's 
 foreign missions would gain by an occasional residence in England. If I 
 saw how this system coidd be extended to the higher branches of the foreign 
 services, I should equally advocate its application. But if the junior branches 
 of the two services are amalgamated, it stands to reason that those who now 
 enter the Foreign Office with no expectation beyond that of rising to a 
 chief clerkship wUl be as eligible as any one else to a mission abroad. It 
 seems to me that the chief clerks might be assimilated to secretaries of 
 embassy, the second clerks to secretaries of legation, and the junior clerks 
 to attaches, in one or more ranks, as may be deemed most convenieiit ; and 
 when I say ' assimilated,' I mean that there should be a constant change 
 going on between the home and foreign services. The difficulty in questions 
 of this nature is, to make a beginning ; and it seems to me that the plan, if 
 adopted, should first be brought into operation in the junior grades, and 
 so be gradually introduced into the upper. That Her Majesty's diplo- 
 matic service Would eventually be improved by it I have not the smallest 
 doubt"? — I entirely agree with every word of that; I have long felt that. 
 
 5275. I understood you to say a short time ago that one danger of the 
 amalgamation of the two branches of the foreign service might be that the 
 appointments to missions abroad might be aSected by the circumstance 
 that the officers in the Foreign Office might themselves have a desire to 
 be placed in those positions ?-^Yes ; assuming that the officials in the 
 Foreign Office were men who had been in diplomacy, and who perhaps 
 felt that they were not so likely to get on well in diplomacy as other 
 members of it, and therefore had been more induced than another 
 class of men in diplomacy would be likely to be, to accept permanent 
 appointments in England. But of course that danger, I think, would not 
 arise if the amalgamation were complete ; if, for instance, the possibility of 
 exchange was going on continually in this sense, that a man might be at 
 one moment a secretary of embassy abroad, and at another moment the 
 head of a department in England, without at all losing or foregoing his 
 liability to be again employed in the foreign service abroad, and so on ; 
 that would obviate the danger. 
 
 5276. T es ; I have always felt very strongly in favour of the plan which 
 you advocate, and which is suggested by Lord Cowley, in the passage you 
 have read ; only in carrying it out I think you would have to bear in mind 
 that you are not dealing with a tabula rasa ; and I have no doubt that in 
 such a matter the inclination of the gentlemen who have now entered into 
 the service of the Foreign Office is a point which demands the very greatest 
 consideration, because a man may have laid out his, life in the "home" 
 service of the State in such a manner that he will consider it a great incon- 
 venience to go abroad. 
 
 5278. There is really no inducement that I can see to any man who has 
 worked his way up to a high position in the service and who is at this 
 moment, we will say, minister or ambassador abroad, to retire into private 
 life, seeing that he must do it upon a very small pension, and exchange a 
 position which has habituated him to a great amount of consideration 
 abroad, for a position, when he returns to England, in which he retains no 
 
96 
 
 longer any connection with the public life of his country ; and I do not 
 think that he has any sort of social position in England derived from the 
 fact that he has been a minister or ambassador abroad. Then of course his 
 pension is really a very small one ; if you compare it to the pensions of 
 lawyers, to the retiring pension of a lord chief justice, for instance, or a 
 lord chancellor, of course, the difference is enormous; and you must suppose 
 that he is a man of high ability, and that he has rendered public services 
 to the country, otherwise he would not be, or ought not to be, in the posi- 
 tion of an ambassador. 
 
 6279. I should say certainly, as a general rule, it is the Foreign Secre- 
 tary who has to administer the whole service, and who is responsible for 
 the succees of his work. I would give him unlimited freedom with regard 
 to appointments, or " patronage," if you please, but of course accompanied 
 by all the conditions of great public responsibility ; of course he must feel 
 that his appointments are liable to be challenged, and he must be able to 
 defend them. 
 
 5280. And you think that public opinion would be a sufficient safeguard 
 under those circumstances, in the working of the department ? — I think so ; 
 it seems to me so, because it must so obviously be of the greatest import- 
 ance to a Foreign Secretary to get the best men that he can, and there are 
 sure, whatever appointments he makes, to be a great number of dis- 
 contented people to object to them, and therefore he will always be 
 permanently exposed to the necessity of defending the appointments that he 
 has made — in fact, I would go the length of saying that his freedom in 
 selecting persons for diplomatic employment ought to be so unlimited and 
 so great, that I do not think the service ought to feel aggrieved if on special 
 and particular occasions the Secretary of State were to select, instead of a 
 professional diplomatist, some public man in England of eminence, whose 
 position at home might be expected to carry pecuUar weight abroad, and 
 who had special qualifications for that particular negotiation from his ex- 
 ceptional personal knowledge of the matter to be treated, or from his per- 
 sonal participation in the sentiment to be represented ; and I think that he 
 ought to be able to count in that case upon the co-operation of every 
 member in the service with whom he comes into contact, and that he should 
 not be exposed to any feeling of resentment on their pai-t. 
 
 The above abstract of the evidence taken before the 
 Select Committee extends to so great a length that I am 
 reluctant to occupy still further space by remarks upon 
 it ; but some observations, based on personal experience, 
 may not be thought ill-timed. 
 
 The Select Committee, as will have appeared from the 
 above evidence, have received admirable suggestions for 
 the administration of the diplomatic service ; but, unfor- 
 tunately, most of the schemes suggested are based on the 
 supposition of a tabula rasa, and are therefore only ap- 
 
97 
 
 plicable to a diplomatic, a foreign office, or a consular 
 service, composed of persons who may enter one or 
 other or the third from this time forward. The Select 
 Committee have not received too much assistance in 
 view of framing recommendations for removing the 
 actual block in the way of promotion. 
 
 The schemes propounded by Mr. Christie, Sir H. 
 Wolff, Mr. Labouchere, Mr. Morier, and Mr. Lytton 
 may be resolved into two — the first is to form one 
 general service under the Foreign Minister, the members 
 of which should be employed in the Foreign Office or 
 in the diplomatic or in the consular service, and be 
 transferred and re-transferred from one branch of service 
 to another ; the second scheme is to retain the consular 
 service separate and distinct, but to amalgamate the 
 Foreign Office clerks with the members of the diplo- 
 matic service. Of the two, the latter scheme is least 
 open to objection, and may be discussed first. 
 
 Mr. Morier points out that it makes all the difference 
 in writing reports, if the writer knows that he is ad- 
 dressing a person fully competent to appreciate and 
 criticise what may be written. This object can only be 
 attained either by fusing the Diplomatic Service with 
 the staff of the Foreign Office, or by a constant inter-, 
 change betwixt members of either branch. Mr. Ham- 
 mond would find great inconvenience in parting with 
 more than two or three clerks at a time ; but as many 
 clerks as may be spared at any one time from' the 
 Foreign Office might proceed, not as heretofore to 
 Florence, or Vienna, or Berlin, but to Peking, Teheran, 
 or Buenos Ayres, at which posts they should severally 
 remain for some two years. On their return other clerks 
 might be sent to Constantinople, St, Petersburg, or 
 
 G 
 
98 
 
 Washington, and so on, until tlie Foreign Office became 
 tliorouglily leavened with personal knowledge of the 
 various countries with which it has to deal. Were suit- 
 able terms offered there need be no lack of volunteers 
 for such service, and such condition might at any rate 
 be made compulsory on clerks entering from this time 
 forward. Temporary exchanges between Foreign Office 
 clerks and members of Legations are, to this extent, 
 practicable, without disturbiag the terms of contract as 
 to salary, pension, &c., on which either class accepted 
 public service; but there are difficulties in the way 
 of their complete amalgamation. The training for 
 either of the two branches of Her Majesty's Foreign 
 Service is distinct, and any attempt to fuse the two 
 might not result in an increase to the efficiency of either. 
 
 The scheme propounded by Sir H. Wolff and Mr. 
 Labouchere has the extra disadvantage of involving the 
 amalgamation with two small services of a third and 
 numerous service, whose members entered it at various 
 periods of life and under various conditions. It would 
 be a very difficult task to adjust lists composed as Sir 
 H. Wolff suggests, and to specify such conflicting claims ; 
 and if efficiency would be lost by the interchange of 
 Foreign Office clerks and diplomatists, much more 
 would this be the case in that of diplomatists 
 and consuls, whose respective training is even more 
 different. 
 
 Mr. Christie's suggestion that the Consulates should 
 be absorbed ia the missions at Rio de Janeiro and 
 Buenos Ayres would lead to the secretary of legation 
 at either place becoming virtually consul. There could 
 scarcely be two posts named, the discharge of the duties 
 of which requires more professional consular knowledge, 
 
99 
 
 as well as more uninterrupted supervision. In Brazil, a 
 country two-thirds the size of Europe, — ^in the Argentine 
 territories, which contain thirty thousand Englishmen, — 
 the secretary of legation may at any moment be called 
 upon to undertake a journey of months' duration ; and- 
 if he be charged with responsible consular duties, who 
 is to perform them iu his absence from the capital ? 
 In view of the daily increasing intercourse of those two 
 countries with Europe, there are few posts where a 
 secretary's time may be more usefully employed in 
 collecting statistical information. Few alterations could, 
 on the whole, seem less desirable than that proposed 
 by Mr. Christie, unless his other short-sighted suggestion, 
 to lower the rank of our diplomatic establishments in 
 South America. 
 
 Some second secretaries should be removed from 
 the- line of promotion ; yet, on the other hand, Her 
 Majesty's Embassies and Legations are not over- 
 provided with the staif necessary to meet emergencies. 
 Were a chancelier named to the Embassies at Berlin, 
 Vienna, and St. Petersburg, and to the Legations 
 at Washington, Florence, Teheran, and Peking, the 
 services of seven second secretaries might be dis- 
 pensed with. One of these would naturally be 
 promoted to fill a vacancy in case the post of Charg^ 
 d'AflFaires at Monte Video be re-created, as all must fore- 
 see that, sooner or later, it will be. There is the utmost 
 jealousy of each other on the part of the rival States on 
 the opposite shores of the Plata ; and as the minister 
 accredited to both is forced to fix his residence in one 
 of the two, he cannot fail to be looked on with distrust 
 by the Government of the other State. Some concep- 
 tion of the public business devolving on the British 
 
100 
 
 representative, at Monte Video may be gathered from 
 the fact that Her Majesty's ex-Chargfe d' Affaires stated 
 to the writer that he had sometimes to address as many 
 as twelve official notes to the Uruguayan Government 
 in one day. 
 
 The State, it has been shown, is now, as regards the 
 Junior Secretaries of Legation, in the position of a con- 
 tractor unable to fulfil his contract, and is bound to do 
 as a private individual would have to do, namely, to pay 
 forfeit to those to whom it is under such obligation. 
 Members of Missions abroad might be informed that in 
 future promotions the rule of seniority would not neces- 
 sarily be adhered to, and that those who might feel 
 their prospects aifected in consequence should be at 
 liberty to state to the Foreign Office whether or not it 
 were their desire to exchange the Diplomatic Service 
 for a Consular post, or whether they were prepared to 
 retire on receiving pecuniary indemnity. The Foreign 
 Minister need bind himself to no more than to consider 
 the case of each junior member of the service indivi- 
 dually. In the event of any person wishing to leave the 
 service, ■\(phom it might be considered advisable to retain, 
 it would be simple to give him to understand that the 
 new rule would not operate to his disadvantage. There 
 need be no difficulty in providing for those chosen for 
 elimination, but it would seem unjust to subject those 
 now in the service to any examination, further than those 
 provided for on their entering it. All actual attaches 
 are entitled to receive commissions as third secretaries ; 
 it would perhaps be better if, on their promotion, that 
 rank were abolished. 
 
 Of late years there has been at the Treasury a deter- 
 nation to keep down the emoluments of public servants, 
 
101 
 
 regardless of the wisdom of ages embodied in the proverb 
 that penny wisdom is pound foolishness. One or two 
 instances may illustrate the working of this principle. 
 
 The difficulty of acquiring Arabic and Turkish led 
 to the creation of Dragomans, in connection with 
 the Foreign Embassies at Constantinople, but this in- 
 stitution is admitted to be not without its draw- 
 backs. Lord Stratford de RedelifFe found these so con- 
 siderable, that he recommended the appointment of an 
 Oriental Secretary to the Embassy, fortune having thrown 
 in his way a gentleman well fitted to hold the post. 
 As, in the course of time, Mr. Alison's turn for pro- 
 motion would arrive, it was necessary to make provision 
 for filling his place, and four Student Attaches were 
 sent to Constantinople. This measure has been pro- 
 nounced to have been " a failure," but perhaps some 
 persons would not be sorry to see another ''failure" that 
 should produce another Lord Strangford, Endowed 
 with the rarest gifts, that child of genius had rendered 
 splendid service to his country and the world ere 
 he sank into an early grave. Less fortunate was Mr, 
 Almeric . Wood, a man of equal promise, who was 
 untimely cut off by a fever whilst aiding in the delimi- 
 tation of the Turco-Persian frontier. The third Student 
 Attach^ is now Secretary at Lisbon ; the fourth is Oriental 
 Secretary at Constantinople. He has for many years 
 been assisted by Mr. Lionel Moore, who is admirably 
 fitted to fill the post, and whose services have been 
 amply recognised by four Ambassadors under whom he 
 has served, and, to use the ordinary phrase, he " cannot 
 be spared" from Constantinople. His services are 
 valued by Great Britain at £400 a year, to which 
 sum it was, it is said, proposed by the Earl of Clarendon 
 
102 
 
 that anothet £100 a year should be added. This 
 proposition was, however, rejected by the Treasury, and 
 that at a time when an offer was being made to Mr. 
 Moore, from another quarter, of more than seven times 
 as much a year. Mr. Moore's loss woidd impair the 
 efficiency of the Embassy staff to an irreparable degree ; 
 but it can scarcely be expected that he will go on 
 much longer giving his services for a sum altogether 
 disproportioned to the price at which they would be 
 valued by others. 
 
 In the Queen's service, attached to the Mission 
 in Persia, was a courier named Malek Mahomed, 
 who during more than forty years had rendered 
 exceptionally good work, and who had been highly 
 commended by each and all of the Ministers under 
 whom he had been placed. I may add that no 
 harder service could bfe conceived than that of a 
 courier whose life is passed in performing incessant 
 journeys in the saddle over the inhospitable mountains 
 of Armenia. Malek Mahomed, in the course of the 
 year 1869, applied for a pension, the grant of which was 
 advocated by Mr. Alison, whose recommendation was 
 forwarded to the Treasury. For some reason, or for 
 none, the Treasury hesitated, and consequently Malek 
 Mahomed was sent on one more winter journey, from 
 the fatigue of which he died. The Treasury official who 
 turned a deaf ear to his prayer may appropriate to him- 
 self the credit of having saved the country a miserable 
 pension, but who shall estimate the national discredit in 
 Persia which must follow this heartless refusal ? 
 
 I may cite yet another case, which ought to make 
 Englishmen blush. Few romances ever aroused deeper 
 interest than is awakened by the perusal of Mr. Kaye's 
 
103 
 
 History of the Affghan War, and of that admirable 
 work no chapter so much impresses the imagination 
 as that which describes the sufferings of the two 
 English officers at Bokhara. Stoddart and ConoUy 
 are English household words, but few persons seem 
 to remember that they had a companion in their 
 Bactrian donjon. Mahomed Beg owed his life to an 
 accident, resumed his duties as courier to the Legation 
 at Teheran, and served until he could no longer sit 
 in his saddle, when" he was rewarded by a pension 
 of rather less than one pound a month. He is 
 in his old age obliged to eke out his livelihood at 
 Kerbela by asking alms from the pilgrims who come to 
 pray at. the shrine of Hoosein. 
 
 I have read with the utmost attention the evidence 
 given with reference to the Persian Mission. Sir Henry 
 Rawlinson contends that, in the first place, the direction 
 of that Mission should be re-transferred to the India 
 Office ; and, in the second, that the system of expending 
 annually a sum of money in presents to the Shah should 
 be resumed. Sir Henry Rawlinson's acquaintance with 
 Persia and the countries all around it, is indeed un- 
 rivalled, and persons may be excused for allowing them^ 
 selves to be guided in their opinion on this subject by 
 his sole authority. But the greater the influence of his 
 name the more incumbent is it on those who differ'from 
 him in opinion to State the arguments on the other side 
 of the question. 
 
 Towards the close of the reign of Fetteh Ali Shah, 
 Sir John Campbell, then Envoy to the Court of Persia 
 from the Governor-General of India, officially reported 
 that, as merely accredited by a subordinate Govern- 
 ment, he had not the position and influence at Teheran 
 
104 
 
 whict would be conceded to a Minister representing the 
 Englisli Crown. Advantage was accordingly taken of 
 the accession of Mahomed Shah to the throne to sub- 
 stitute in Persia a Mission from the Crown for that from 
 Calcutta, and Sir Henry Ellis went to Teheran as Am- 
 bassador, From the year 1835 until the year 1859 the 
 Minister in Persia was accredited from the Foreign Office. 
 The momentarily increased influence which after that year 
 followed the transfer of the direction of the Legation to 
 the India Office was owing solely to the personal quali- 
 ties of the new Envoy, Sir Henry Rawlinson. He com- 
 plied with Oriental usage, it is true, in offering gifts to the 
 Shah, but it was to the charm of his presence, to his 
 acquaintance with the Persian language, his well-known 
 friendliness for Persia, and his thorough knowledge of 
 that country's interests, that he owed the mastery which 
 he soon acquired over the King and over his Ministers. 
 That the successor of Chosroes and Abbas, the disposer 
 of a Civil List of £400,000* sterling, a sensible monarch, 
 who has the interests of his country at heart, could be 
 seriously influenced in his foreign policy by the value 
 of £1,500 a year, is a proposition which seems to admit 
 of doubt. 
 
 On the 8th of December, 1859, Sir Henry Rawlinson 
 arrived at Teheran, but within a short time he was 
 followed by a courier, the bearer of a despatch announc- 
 ing that the direction of the Mission had been reassumed 
 by the Minister of Foreign Affairs, so that the influence 
 which he wielded during his six months' stay in Persia 
 
 * CivUList ^200,000 
 
 Paid into the Shah's private Treasury, excess of Revenue 200,000 
 
 .6400,000 
 
lOo 
 
 was maintained, if not acquired, whilst the Legation 
 was directed from the Foreign Office. Yet it is 
 perhaps doubtful whether in the long run it would 
 prove to be to the furtherance of British interests were 
 the attempt renewed to create at the Persian Court 
 an almost exclusive influence, such as that gkined by the 
 illustrious scholar above referred to. Russia has at least 
 as great a stake in Persia as has England, and has far 
 greater facilities for putting material pressure upon the 
 Government of the Shah. It is no more to be expected 
 that the Court of St. Petersburg would long sit tamely 
 by, permitting an English ascendency at Teheran, than 
 that. Great Britain should submit to a Russian dictator- 
 ship there. All that we require, all that we should 
 demand, is that the representative of the one Power 
 should be in as high a position in Persia as is accorded 
 to the representative of the other. 
 
 Stress is laid on the supposed advantage which would 
 accrue were the Secretaries of the Teheran Mission 
 supplied by the army of India rather than by the diplo- 
 matic service, on account of the supposed facility with 
 which the former would acquire the Persian language. 
 This I conceive to be a ■ fallacy. The officers of the 
 Indian army who have passed the Interpreter's exami- 
 nation in Persian are, as the Army List shows, few 
 indeed, and of these some might be unwilling to ex- 
 change Indian service for Persian, and others might 
 be incapable of filling a diplomatic post.' Hindostani 
 has little or nothing in common with. Persian but the 
 character, and Persian spoken with an Indian accent 
 is to the Shah's courtiers a source of more ridicule 
 than English with a strong Scotch accent creates 
 in a London drawing-room. Further, a knowledge of. 
 
106 
 
 French is absolutely necessary to a diplomatist at 
 Teheran, and how many Indian officers are acquainted 
 with that language? In point of fact the officer sent 
 from Bombay to fill the post of Secretary of Legation 
 under the India Office arrived at Teheran unacquainted 
 with Persian, whilst the actual Secretary of Legation, 
 who since the death of Lord, Strangford is perhaps the 
 best Persian scholar in the world, was, like Lord Strang- 
 ford, educated by the Foreign Office.* 
 
 There are at Teheran at any one time two first and 
 two second Secretaries, the juniors being changed after 
 three or four years' residence ; a school of diplomatists, 
 more or less acquainted with Persia and Persian, is 
 thus being gradually formed, from amongst whom the 
 Foreign Secretary may select his agents in that country. 
 The observations made by Mr. Mitford with reference 
 to our representation in China and Japan are entirely 
 applicable to our representation in Persia. 
 
 The Shah is too enlightened to view with pleasure 
 a transfer of the guidance of British relations with his 
 Court which would degrade him from an equality with 
 European monarchs, and place him on the list of Indian 
 potentates ; nor would the dictatorial Warren Hastings' 
 style of diplomacy, which, under the guns of a squadron, 
 is so effective with the Arab Chiefs of the Persian Gulf, 
 be at all appreciated at Teheran. 
 
 The statements of Sir Henrjr Rawlinson, the only 
 authority examined whose evidence is based upon per- 
 
 * Should the Persian Mission OTer be placed iinder the direction 
 of the India Office, I would suggest that such officers as might be 
 sent to Teheran should be selected as not having studied Persian 
 in India. It is extremely difficult to divest one's-self of a bad pro- 
 nunciation. 
 
107 
 
 sonal acquaintance with Persia, deserve to be considered 
 apart ; the bulk of the other evidence with reference to 
 the Teheran Legation points to the advisability of its 
 remaining directed as now. The Earl of Clarendon 
 representing the Foreign Office, and Lord Halifax the 
 India Office, concur in their view of the question. Lord 
 Derby expresses himself as being indifferent regarding 
 it ; but the fact remains that he, whilst at the head of 
 the Foreign Office, did not disturb the existing arrange- 
 ment — -an arragement the practical bearing of which is 
 illustrated by Sir Henry Bulwer. So long as there will 
 be a Foreign Office and an India Office the line must 
 be drawn somewhere, but to me the rule for our 
 relations with Eastern Courts seems clear — namely, 
 that in countries where there are representatives of 
 other European Powers English relations should be 
 conducted by the Foreign Office : in countries where 
 no nation but Great Britain is represented her relations 
 should be under the direction of the Viceroy of India. 
 
 With regard to the subject of examinations I might 
 suggest that it were perhaps desirable that some rule 
 were laid down providing that examiners should know 
 the languages in which they undertake to examine. 
 The Commissioners are reported to have "passed" men 
 in Persian and in Chinese who knew scarcely more than 
 the alphabet of either language, but who knew perhaps 
 as much as the examiners. Whilst, too, they have 
 passed men who could not write a page of English cor- 
 rectly (for no amount of dulness was proof against the 
 skill of M. Dusayer), they have rejected others who, 
 like Mr. Monson, were acknowledged, both at Oxford 
 and by every one except the Civil Service examiners, 
 to be men of very high acquirements. Examinations, as 
 
108 
 
 at present conducted, are no test whatsoever of talent or 
 of capacity ; they merely prove that a man who passes 
 them has expended perhaps a hundred pounds in cram- 
 ming. It is desirable that every inducement should be 
 held out which might lead men to devote time to the 
 acquisition of languages. Linguistic talent, it is true, is 
 in itself no proof of capacity to fill a diplomatic post, 
 but every language which a diplomatist learns increases 
 the dimensions of the sphere in which he may be advan- 
 tageously employed, and it is well worth while to expend 
 a little money for the attainment of this object. For 
 the acquisition of a fair amount of knowledge of 
 German, Russian, Portuguese, Greek, Turkish, Persian, 
 Arabic, Chinese, or Japanese, a reward of from £200 to 
 £300 should be oflFered. But it ought not to be left with 
 the head of a Mission to say when a man has acquired 
 the knowledge of a foreign language that should entitle 
 him to receive such reward. The Ambassador may be 
 unfit to determine such a point, and is likely to lean to the 
 side of good-nature when one of his staff is concerned. 
 A Committee of persons of reputed knowledge should 
 be requested to examine a candidate in the country 
 where the tongue is spoken, and the candidate's 
 papers, with the Committee's recommendation (if a 
 favourable one), should be sent to England for the final 
 decision of some well-known authority at Oxford or 
 elsewhere ; but this formality might be dispensed with 
 in certain cases, such as that of one of our third Secre- 
 taries, who by open competition won the second prize 
 for French from amidst all the youth of France. 
 
 The salary attached to the post of Secretary of 
 Legation in all English Missions out of Europe ought 
 to be so much higher than that attached to a similar 
 
109 
 
 post in Europe as to attract the senior, or more expe- 
 rienced, Secretaries to the more distant posts. It is 
 in most cases of less importance who may fill the post 
 of Secretary to a Legation in Europe, than who should 
 be Secretary of Legation at Buenos Ayres or Peking. 
 In Europe a Minister going on leave usually proceeds 
 to England, and in case of an emergency may, unless 
 prevented by illness, be back at his post, without much 
 inconvenience to himself, in the course of a few days. 
 But it is far otherwise with a Minister returning from 
 an American or an Asian post. He comes on long 
 leave, at great expense to himself, and, however pressing 
 the emergency, many weeks must elapse ere he can 
 retrace his steps. Meanwhile the issues of peace or war 
 may depend upon the discretion of the Secretary left in 
 charge of the distant Legation. As at present arranged, 
 the salaries of the Secretaries in America or Asia are on 
 so reduced a scale as never to tempt any one in 
 Europe to accept a more distant post in preference to one 
 nearer home. Nor can it be expected that any Secretary 
 wiU ever do so, to be a direct pecuniary loser by so 
 doing. The Secretary of Legation employed at 
 Peking* should receive at 
 
 least 
 
 ^1,800 
 
 At Teteran „ 
 
 1,200 
 
 At Jed(Jo „ 
 
 1,200 
 
 At Washington „ 
 
 .. 1,000 
 
 At Eiode Janeiro „ 
 
 .. 1,000 
 
 At Buenos Ayres „ 
 
 1,000 
 
 
 .67,200 
 
 
 4,660 
 
 He receives at present. 
 
 as 
 
 Secretary; 
 
 ... iesoo 
 
 As Oriental Secretary 400 
 
 He receives at present 
 
 ... 750 
 
 J) ?j 
 
 ... 800 
 
 17 J) 
 
 ... 700 
 
 )j j> 
 
 ... 700 
 
 ft j» 
 
 ... 500 
 
 .£4,660 
 
 * The salary attached to the post of Secretary to Her Majesty's 
 Legation in China is .£800— or <£100 less than the yearly emoluments' 
 of each Captain of Cavalry in India. 
 
110 
 
 It is said, and with respect to many instances truly, 
 that a diplomatist ouglit to be content with little, as 
 his daily working hours are fewer than those of a 
 member of any other learned profession. Some instances, 
 , such as those of Lord Lyons, Lord Cowley, or Lord 
 Stratford de Redcliffe, go far to upset this theory ; but, 
 admitting it to be to a certain extent true, what does it 
 prove ? Are certain posts unimportant on account of the 
 duties attached to them being only occasional? Is 
 quantity to command a higher price than quality ? A 
 merchant goes daily to the city and works from ten 
 o'clock till five, but he is responsible for the result of his 
 labour to himself alone. A diplomatist may be idle for 
 days together, but for every hastily-written word that he 
 commits to despatch-paper he is accountable not only to 
 the Secretary of State but to the public at large, and even 
 this responsibility is outweighed by that to himself, as 
 knowing that he has in his keeping the interests of others. 
 
 One distinction between the members of the English 
 Legation in any foreign capital and those of the Lega- 
 tion of any Continental Power is the absence of deco- 
 rations from the breasts of the former. Many persons 
 think that this state of things is altogether as it should 
 be, and it must be admitted that nothing could well 
 be more contemptible than the thirst for all manner 
 of decorations which with foreign diplomatists is un- 
 quenchable ; but if the principle of bestowing decora- 
 tions on Her Majesty's civil servants abroad be admitted, 
 the members of the Diplomatic and Consular Services 
 have as much right to benefit by it as have the 
 members of the Colonial or of the Indian Civil 
 Service. The Order of the Cross of St. Michael 
 and St. George has been extended for the benefit of 
 
Ill 
 
 the former ; that of the Star of India has been created 
 chiefly for the latter ; it would, in the minds of many, 
 enhance the value of being in the Diplomatic or 
 Consular Service were they put upon a corresponding 
 footing with the members of the Colonial Service with 
 respect to the Cross of St. Michael and St. George, and 
 were Diplomatic and Consular Servants stationed in 
 Persia, China, or Japan, eligible to receive the Star of 
 India. 
 
 The evidence on the whole clearly points to the 
 advisability of increasing rather than diminishing the 
 annual national expenditure upon the diplomatic ser- 
 vice, but the additional sum required need not alarm 
 the tax-payer. The service has hitherto cost £180,000 
 a year, and if for the future it cost £200,000, — one forty- 
 fifth part of our outlay on ■ Abyssinia, ^one ought to 
 remember that efficient representatives in Europe, Asia, 
 and America keep down our navy by many ships, our 
 army by many battalions. 
 
 POSTSCRIPT. 
 
 The foUomng letter, advocating a system of promotion by 
 seniority rather than by selection, as suggested above, has been 
 addressed to the writer of the pamphlet above alluded to, entitled 
 
 "THE DIPLOMATIC SERVICE." 
 
 Sec. 1. Tour admirable and practical essay proves to demonstra- 
 tion the existence of some radical evil in. our present diplomatic 
 organisation. Having had 30 years' experience of the subject in 
 question, I may be allowed to offer some remarks on the same, pre- 
 mising that I thoroughly subscribe to all, or nearly aU, your state- 
 
112 
 
 ments, especially to tlds one : — " If the present condition of things 
 remaia unchanged, England must in years to come accept the 
 inevitable results of apathy and disappointment on the part of 
 those charged with representing and securing her interests abroad." 
 
 Sec. 2. Assuming that these «vils and abuses are proved, as all 
 who know the service, or who have read your essay, m.ust be con- 
 vinced they are, the question comes : " What is the remedy ?" Tou 
 have pointed out one which must recommend itself as offering 
 immediate relief from the present dead-lock, without really doing 
 any injustice — viz., the giving certain consular posts to diplomatists. 
 It would seem obvious that the five political agencies and those 
 consulates-general whose duties are partly political were the 
 natural birthright of diplomatists. Even on commercial questions 
 we are obliged by our examinations, by the reports on commerce 
 and industry assigned to us since 1857, above aU by the nature 
 of our regular duties, to acquire some knowledge. A diplomatic 
 training must surely afford a presumption of greater qualifications 
 for the consular service than any other or no professional training. 
 
 Sec. 3. The converse proposition — ^viz., that consuls must 
 make good diplomatists — ^has been abundantly favoured in practice, 
 for seven of our 18 envoys and two of our seven charges d'affaires 
 have been taken from the consular and other professions. Tet no 
 corresponding outlet has been afforded in the consular service for 
 the pent-up, overstocked diplomatic profession. The slightest con- 
 sideration will show that to reverse this system would be -but just 
 to both professions, which are closely allied in the nature of their 
 duties, but which differ entirely in the nature of their organisation, 
 inasmuch as one is, and the other is not, placed on the footing of a 
 regular seniority service. There is no special apprenticeship re- 
 quired of, or any pledge of advancement held out to, consuls, while 
 we are subjected to an apprenUcesMp of some 20 years, amd to am, 
 expenditure of some .£7,000, before we can make a living. If we 
 have consented to make such sacrifices it was evidently on the 
 understanding, tacit but sacred, that the prizes of our own pro- 
 fession at least should be reserved for us. As an injustice has been 
 done to us in this respect, it is right that compensation should 
 be afforded to the sufferers in the wise and equitable mode which 
 you have pointed out. 
 
 Sec. 4. This mode, however, will not suffice to effect a per- 
 manent cure. The consular service may hereafter be placed on a 
 
 i-UA.^ 
 
113 
 
 footing of seniority, in whicH case diplomacy would have to depend 
 on its own resources. Those resources are small, being limited to a 
 maximum of ^6180,000 per annum, but perhaps sufficient if pro- 
 perly administered. Even if this outlay were increased to .£200,000, 
 no man in his senses can allege that this is an excessive burden for 
 England with her budget of .£70,000,000, considering her intricate 
 poKtical relations with 38 Governments scattered aU over the 
 globe. The first and paramount duty of these agents is the pre- 
 vention of war. Judging from the experience of the past, and 
 turning our eyes to the state of our nearest neighbour, we must 
 admit that our diplomatic expenditure is a most insignificant 
 premiimi of insurance to pay for helping to promote a good under- 
 standing with foreign nations. The Abyssinian war of a few months 
 cost us fifty times the whole annual charge of our diplomacy. One 
 European war would cost us more in a year than all our diplomacy 
 in a century. 
 
 Sec. 5. The problem, as I understand it,- therefore is, not what 
 further prunings may be effected, but how to obtain the best 
 possible value for our money ; in other words, how to reconcile the 
 conjflicting exigencies of justioe, efficiency, and economy. Having 
 long reflected on this problem, I have arrived at certain definite 
 principles and conclusions which I confidently recommend to the 
 consideration of the Committee on the Diplomatic Service, as being 
 more conducive to the above purpose than anything else which has 
 yet been propounded. My scheme is founded on the due pondera- 
 tion of the above three interests involved in the question, thereby 
 differing from most other schemes hitherto advanced, which have 
 not kept the balance true among these three conflicting claims, but 
 have generally contemplated the question from one or two only of 
 its three sides. 
 
 Sec. 6. It is the opinion of some of our statesmen that diplo- 
 matic posts should be conferred on eminent home politicians, or (in 
 American parlance) on the " lobby." This is the American, and, 
 partly the Spanish, system. It may therefore be studied there in 
 its results. There is much to be said in favour of; though I do not 
 myself approve of, this system. With Macaulay I hold that this is 
 the system which makes Ambassadors that do not know French ■ Ad- 
 mirals who know not the stem from the stem; and Governors- 
 General who know not the difference between a rupee and a pagoda. 
 It is of no use now to raise a controversy on the question of 
 
 H 
 
114 
 
 a/mateur diplomacy. The opposite or " professional " system has 
 been long adopted by us. "We are committed to this system for 
 b^ter, for worse ; we must now, therefore, accept it with all its con- 
 sequences. 
 
 Sec. 7. If any difference of opinion still exists as to the com- 
 parative merits of the two systems, there can surely be none as to 
 the third or composite system under which we are living, which 
 consists in a combination of the above two opposite systems. It 
 is this, and not as you suppose (p. 17), having made British Diplo- 
 macy a regular seniority service (which it never has been really 
 made), that has landed us in our present " slough of despond." 
 This unnatural alliance between two iacompatible systems is more 
 oppressive in its effects than the American system, pure and simple. 
 By all means let us abolish diplomacy altogether as a profession, 
 and open it to the world at large ; let us have free trade in diplo- 
 macy, or let us have competitive examinations for ambassadors, if 
 we can thus obtain a better article. But let us have done with the 
 present hybrid system. Let us no longer allure young men iato 
 the service on false pretences. We now encourage them to devote 
 their youth, their studies, their health, their fortunes to this profes- 
 sion, we put them through two stiff examinations, we send them, 
 " nolentes volentes," all over the world, we get out of them, as you 
 have clearly exposed, an amount of unpaid labour equal to ^20,950 
 per annum. "We then, when a Mission falls vacant, turn upon them 
 and say — " Gentlemen, we owe you nothing. Tour salaries are paid 
 punctually, so our accounts are square. "We have found a better 
 man than any of you." Might they not retort upon us — " "We have 
 given all the best part of our lives and of our fortunes to your service 
 on the tacit but clear understanding of obtaining the prizes of our 
 profession. These are our inalienable bii-thrights, else our appren- 
 ticeship has been a deception and a snare." 
 
 Sec. 8. The Committee would materially promote the interests 
 of Her Majesty's service, in recommending first of all the proper 
 organisation of the British Diplomatic Body by means of a 
 written code defining the rights as well as duties of aU parties, 
 thus completing Lord Clarendon's revised code of June 1, 1870 ; 
 it should embrace, amongst others, the following principal 
 heads : I. Classification ; II. Salaries ; III. Allowances ; IV. Pro- 
 motion ; Y. Rewards and Penalties ; "VI. Pensions. I propose 
 to say a few words on all these points, and to sketch out a complete 
 
115 
 
 scheme of diplomatic reform, which would eminently promote the 
 public iaterest, without necessarily increasing tha public charges. 
 
 Sec. 9. I. — Classification. Our ordinary Diplomatic agents 
 are now divided into the following nine classes : — 
 
 5 
 
 ±. .a.muaBBauors .... 
 II. Envoys ..... 
 
 18 
 
 ni. Charges d' Affaires 
 
 7 
 
 IV. Political Agents .... 
 
 5 
 
 V. Secretaries of Embassy 
 
 5 
 
 VI. Secretaries of Legation 
 
 23 
 
 Vn. Second Secretaries 
 
 30 
 
 VUl. Third Secretaries .... 
 
 15 
 
 IX. Attaches 
 
 17 
 
 Total 
 
 125 
 
 This multiplicity of classes in so small a corps is quite unnecessary, 
 and might well be reduced from nine to six by merging together 
 Nos. m., IV., and V., and also Classes VIII. and IX. Besides these 
 125 regulars there are some 29 functionaries of different other 
 kinds belonging to the service, such as chaplains, dragomans, clerks, 
 &c. There is at some Legations, and there ought to be at all, a good 
 archivist-translator. The great mass of printed and written matter 
 which accumulates at every Legation is useless and perplexing if not 
 properly arranged, an art which few understand. The archivist 
 should be a permanent official, with merely local rank, and not 
 forming a separate class. 
 , Sec. 10. II. — Salaries. The salaries at present vary in the same 
 class according to some idea of the relative cost of living in different 
 towns. I propose that the salaries in each class should be alike, 
 such salary to represent the personal remuneration attached to the 
 functions, irrespectively of the outlay required of envoys, &c., for 
 /mis de representation, and by other local circumstances. The salary 
 alone to be personal and inalienable, thus serving as a fair basis 
 for calculating pensions. 
 
 Sec. 11. III. — Allowances. These are now allotted only for 
 covering the different expenses of house-rent in different places. I 
 would extend this principle to other expenses, which are also a part 
 of the ambassadorial duties, such as, for instance, social entertain- 
 ments and hospitality. This is an item which cannot and need not 
 save in extreme cases, be accounted for, but which should, with the 
 
116 
 
 allo-wance for house rent, he provided for separately from the salary. 
 It is, in. my opinion, desirable that the -whole staff of the mission 
 should be accommodated under the same roof. It would be clearly 
 unjust to throw this expense on the salary of the envoy. It is im- 
 possible to define the measure of hospitality to be practised ; but 
 the extent of this duty may be iadicated by allotting beforehand 
 fixed sums for this and other public purposes, under the term of 
 "Allowances." These sums, or a certain part of them, should, during 
 the envoy's absence, be paid to the charge d'affaires. 
 
 Sec. 12. — IV. Promotion. This is really the weak point of the 
 present system. In theory this is a seniority service, but in prac- 
 tice it is not, and never has been, one. The only remedy which I 
 see lies in a faithful and honest observance of the principle of 
 seniority adopted by the Grovernment. At aU events let that prin- 
 ciple be fully and fairly put to the test of practical experience. 
 While the present Permanent Under-Secretary of State, Mr. 
 Hammond, holds the reins, the management in the lower grades 
 is and will be conducted with justice, so far as depends on 
 him. In the early stages the road is straight and smooth enough ; 
 but after a time it becomes a regular jungle. At the same time 
 some secret short cuts and royal roads are allowed to exist. In 
 short, the journey which began so smoothly ends either by stieking 
 in the mud or by scrambling for one's life. Is this fair to those 
 who have paid heavy turnpikes ? If we are told that these quick 
 travellers are those best qualified for the posts which they have 
 conquered, the poor secretaries may fairly ask : "Are we to wait till 
 every man in England, cleverer than ourselves, is provided with a 
 Mission ?" 
 
 Sec. 13. This is the real cause of the dead-lock and despondency 
 so truly depicted in your pamphlet. My remedy is a simple one. 
 Let us take our envoys as we do our bishops, judges, generals, and 
 admirals, solely from the training school provided for that purpose, 
 or let us abolish that training school. The slightest consideration 
 wiU show the ruinous effect on the service of one interloping appoint- 
 ment. Assuming that two Missions become vacant annually, the 
 appointment of an outsider robs each member of the junior classes, 
 say 102 individuals, of half a year's promotion, worth say 1,6002. 
 — in other words, inflicts an injury on innocent individuals amounting 
 to about 163,000Z. 
 
 Sec. 14. On a vacancy arising in any class it should devolve 
 
117 
 
 on the senior member of the same class, if he wished to accept it, 
 and on the other members successively, in order of seniority. 
 Surely it would be wasting words to prove the elementary justice of 
 this arrangement. The formal recognition of this principle would 
 infuse new hope and spirit into the service, and would summon up 
 dozens of volimteers for China and South America. At present, 
 as you truly say — "Nor does service in remote countries generally 
 accelerate promotion. Eather the reverse. Out of sight out of 
 mind," &c., &c. 
 
 Sec. 15. I should add that these suggestions are intended to 
 serve as a basis for a written code which should lay down certain 
 principles, not immovable rules. The Secretary of State should 
 be allowed to put his veto on any transfer, exchange, or promotion, 
 if objectionable on public grounds. 
 
 Sec. 16. The vacancy which would finally remain in any class 
 should be offered to the senior member of the class below, with the 
 liberty of accepting or declining it. In the latter case, he would be 
 passed over by the next in. rotation. This simple mode would pre- 
 vent a world of heartburning. We should hear no more of some 
 careers " all in the sunshine," and others " all in the shade," 
 as you well put it. The laggard would waive his right to promotion 
 for the sake of rem3,ining at some favourite post, which wiU probably 
 be that best suited to him. His enterprising colleague will feirly 
 gain a march upon him ; this to the perfect satisfaction of both 
 parties, and to the manifest advantage of the public service. 
 
 Sec. 17. A strict seniority scheme lies open to one serious 
 objection alone — viz., that it fetters the Secretary of State in the 
 exercise of his discretion, by preventing the immediate advancement 
 of merit. My answer is, Istly, That justice must go before expe- 
 diency. 2ndly, That in this case the interests of both are identical. 
 The problem before us is — not how to reward merit at the earliest 
 age, but to create and nurture that merit — in other words, how to 
 estdblish the best possible school of BiplomaUsis. To effect this, as to 
 govern mankind in general, strict justice is the first requisite. To 
 discourage the whole service for the sake of promoting some pre- 
 cocious genius a few years before his turn would be as improvident 
 as cutting down a tree to get at the fruit. 
 
 Sec. 18. This system must be supplemented by a well-con- 
 sidered scheme of temporary and permanent retirement. Thus 
 when the senior member of a class is not considered eligible for a 
 
118 
 
 particular post which may become vacant in the next class above, 
 he should not necessarily be raised to the post as well as to the rank 
 which becomes vacant. The Minister should have the power of 
 placing such individual for a limited time en disponsibiUte (on half- 
 pay) and of appointing to the post the next on the list. This would, 
 no doubt, involve some increase of the half-pay list. 
 
 Sec. 19. The objection which may be drawn from the addi- 
 tional expense involved in this reform is hardly worthy of conside- 
 ration. Let a certain fixed maximum sum be allotted to the 
 Secretary of State for defraying the whole expenses of the Diplo- 
 matic Establishment, to include full-pay, half-pay, pensions, allow- 
 ances, and extraordinary disbursements. Let the employment of 
 that sum be, of course, annually accounted for to Parliament. But 
 let us be spared the annual recurrence of an unseemly wrangle. Let 
 us rather endeavour to allay than to aggravate the sense of inse- 
 curity thus engendered. 
 
 Sec. 20. V. — Rewards and Penalties. These most eflB.cacious 
 instruments of Government are but sparingly used in the diplomatic 
 service. A rough kind of justice used to be meted out in promot- 
 • ing any individual who had made himself conspicuous over the 
 heads of others. But zeal and industry should be rewarded at the 
 expense, not of innocent individuals, but of the public at large, which 
 profits by those qualities in its servants. Good service pensions 
 might, in certain exceptional cases, be granted. The most obvious 
 and valued rewards are the orders and decorations in the gift of 
 the Crown. These, if judiciously distributed, will prove an ample 
 incentive to exertion. Neglect of duty might then fairly be visited 
 by a graduated system of penalties. 
 
 Sec. 21. VI. — Pensions. These are, on the whole, fairly 
 regulated by the Act of August 2nd, 1869. Its provisions 
 have, however, given rise to one serious complaint. The 7th 
 clause of this Act says : " A person shall not be qualified for 
 receiving a pension of any class until the expiration of 16 years 
 from the date of his first commission." This is a reproduc- 
 tion of an Act which admittedly bore very hardly on the class of 
 " Paid Attaches," who held no Eoyal Commissions. This injustice 
 was remedied for the future in 1862, by all paid attaches being 
 provided with commissions, which enabled them to count their future 
 services for obtaining a pension, though all their previous ser- 
 vices .in the same capacity went for nothing. The junior 
 
119 
 
 paid attaches did not lose much; but those of ten or fifteen 
 years' standing had now to serve twenty-five to thirty years 
 instead of 15 years, the term required of their juniors. This anomaly 
 might easUy have been redressed in the Act of 1869 by the insertion, 
 after the words quoted above, of the following : " or from that of 
 his first paid appointment." This injustice calls for redress even 
 at the expense of an Act of Parliament, and tends to keep up the 
 existing dead-lock. 
 
 I remain, <fcc., H. B.t 
 
 
 Printed by Jas. Wade, 18, Tavistock Street, Coyent Garden W.C.