M- 
 
U'K 
 
 atlfata, W«n fork 
 
 FROM THE 
 
 BENNO LOEWY LIBRARY 
 
 COLLECTED BY 
 
 BENNO LOEWY 
 
 18S4-I9I9 
 BEQUEATHED TO CORNELL UNIVERSITY 
 
The date shows when this volume was taken. 
 
 HOME USE RULES 
 
 All books subject to recall 
 
 All borrowers must regis- 
 ter in the library to borrow 
 books for home use,, 
 
 AU books must be re- 
 turned at end of college 
 year for inspection and 
 repairs. 
 
 Limited books must be 
 returned within the four 
 week limit and not renewed. 
 
 Students must return all 
 books before leaving town. 
 Officers should arrange for 
 the return of books wanted 
 during their absence from 
 town. 
 
 Volumes of periodicals 
 and of pamphlets are held 
 in the library as much as 
 possible. For special pur- 
 poses they are given out for 
 a limited time. 
 
 Borrowers should not usj^ 
 their library privileges for 
 the benefit of other persons. 
 
 Books of special value 
 and gift books, when the 
 giver wishes it, are not 
 allowed to circulate, 
 
 Readers are asked to re- 
 port all cases of books 
 marked or mutilated". 
 
 Do not deface books by marks and writing. 
 
 Cornell University Library 
 JK3545 .A4 
 
 Report and record of the proceedinas of 
 
 olih 
 
 3 1924 030 490 803 
 
Cornell University 
 Library 
 
 The original of tiiis book is in 
 tine Cornell University Library. 
 
 There are no known copyright restrictions in 
 the United States on the use of the text. 
 
 http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924030490803 
 
SENATE INVESTIGATION, 1895 
 
 REPORT 
 
 AND 
 
 Record of the Proceedings 
 
 OF THE 
 
 Select * C^'^^^ittee 
 
 OF THE 
 
 Senate of New Jersey 
 
 Appointed February 13th, 1895 
 
 To Inquire into the Cliarges of Extravagance in Furnishing 
 the State House, and certain other Charges touch- 
 ing the Conduct of Public Officials, etc. 
 
 TRENTON, N. J.. 
 
 MacCrellish & QuiGLEY, Book and Job Pkintehs, Opp. Post Office. 
 
 1895. 
 
Committee. 
 
 FOSTER M. VOORHEES, Senator from Union. 
 GEORGE W. KETCHAM, Senator from Essex. 
 WILLIAM H. 8KIRM, Senator from Merger. 
 CHARLES B. HERBERT, Senator from Middlesex. 
 WILLIAM D. DALY, Senator from Hudson. 
 
 Cjwnse/— WILLIAM H. CORBIN, Elizabeth. 
 C/erA-— CHARLES H. LEVY, Trenton. 
 Sergeani-ai-Arms — JOHN GRAHAM, Jersey City. 
 Slenographer — A. B. C. SALMON, Newark. 
 
REPORT. 
 
 To the Senate : 
 
 Your select Committee appointed to inquire into the 
 charges of extravagance in furnishing the State House 
 and other charges touching the conduct of public affairs, 
 report that they proceeded with the examination of the 
 files and records at the State House and the taking of tes- 
 timony, and have continued in that work until the present 
 time. 
 
 We have not exhausted all the sources of information, 
 nor followed up all the possible roads to discovery, but 
 have pushed our inquiries into subjects that seemed most 
 important and that afforded clear indications of need for 
 investigation, accomplishing as much as was practicable 
 within the time at our command. 
 
 The obtaining of proof in an inquiry of this sort is at- 
 tended with much dif&culty. Persons directly involved 
 in wrong-doing are industrious in obliterating the evidence 
 of their actions, and others who are aware of the facts are 
 generally reticent, and even when discovered give unwill- 
 ing testimony. Of the ninety-seven witnesses examined^ 
 by far the greater number have testified under compul- 
 sion, and little information has been volunteered. 
 Enough, however, has been disclosed to indicate the 
 course of events in recent years at the State House and 
 to suggest legislation for guarding against a recurrence 
 of similar irregularities. 
 
 STATE HOUSE EXPENSES. 
 
 Previous to [889 there was no provision for the care and 
 furnishing of the State House, except a joint resolution 
 
iv REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 passed in 1846 (Rev. 1224), placing the property in charge 
 of the Treasurer to be kept in order. No money was ever 
 appropriated for the purpose. 
 
 Under this meagre authority the matter drifted along 
 forty-three years until the annual expense had grown to 
 $25,000, which was paid without any appropriation. 
 
 In 1889 the property was by statute placed in charge of 
 a superintendent. The expenses rapidly increased, reach- 
 ing $71,000 in 1894, and were, as usual, charged to " State 
 House Expense." This sum by no means covered all 
 the expenditures for repairs, maintenance and furnishing. 
 
 We found on the statute book nine acts, passed at differ- 
 ent times from 1885 to 1892, for special objects, the first 
 having been passed to meet the emergency caused by the 
 fire in the State House in 1885: It would seem that these 
 acts ought long since to have served their purpose, but 
 under the constructions given to them some of them con- 
 tinued to be used as the warrant for the expenditure of 
 State moneys up to 1894, and might be used indefinitely 
 hereafter without limit. We, therefore, reported to the Sen- 
 ate repealers of these nine laws, and they were repealed 
 March 22, 1895. Under these laws parts of the State 
 House and Assembly Chamber were rebuilt, and a vast 
 amount of money expended for furnishing, painting, ven- 
 tilating and repairing, in addition to the annual sums 
 charged to State House expenses as above explained. 
 
 Between 1889 and 1893 nearly all the furniture in the 
 State House was, by auction or otherwise, disposed of for 
 trifling sums and new furniture put in its place. Some 
 parts of the building were furnished twice. Part of the 
 money realized for the sale of old furniture has not yet 
 been paid into the treasury. 
 
 In the making of this substitution the State was cheated 
 and betrayed. The prices were exorbitant, being often 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. v 
 
 double the usual retail price of the goods. Bills were fal- 
 sified in quantities and prices. Large bonuses and com- 
 missions were paid to State officers. Furniture and carpets 
 paid for by the State were sent to persons holding offices 
 under the State for their private use. Moreover, much of 
 the new furniture was inferior to that which was displaced, 
 and changes were made which were not desired by the 
 occupants of the offices. 
 
 In the furnishing of coal, lumber, and other supplies 
 for the State House, there was deliberate systematic 
 swindling. Quantities and prices weie falsely raised, 
 goods being billed to the State and paid for that were 
 never furnished, large percentages were added to bills, 
 sometimes undoubtedly for the benefit of State officers, at 
 other times, possibly for the benefit of the dealer. The 
 State was by the collusion of bidders and others, made to 
 pay $1,350 for a flag-pole and flag on the State House. 
 By the collusion of a State Comptroller and in the face of 
 the protest of other State officers against the waste, the 
 State paid $21,847 for the construction of pigeon-holes 
 and similar applicances which could readily have been 
 obtained for $7,500, and still have affiDrded a liberal profit 
 to the maker. More than $10,000 was paid to one painter 
 upon bills wherein false entries of labor and material had 
 been made, the prices likewise being exorbitant, the pecu- 
 lation being probably $4,000. That commissions were 
 paid on this work was not seriously denied. 
 
 In the rebuilding of the Assembly Chamber, which cost 
 $232,000, an architect was employed who had never before 
 designed and erected a building. Of much of the work 
 he appeared to have no control, it being under the imme- 
 diate supervision of the Governor. No plans of this work 
 appear to be in the possession of the State except certain 
 blue prints found among rubbish in the cellar of the State 
 
vi REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 House. These do not so much as indicate any ventilating 
 apparatus. Such apparatus was, however, put in at a 
 cost of $25,896 The evidence is that a full price, with 
 large profit, would have been $13,923, and furthermore, 
 that the apparatus is obsolete and highly unsatisfactory. 
 The same contractor, by arrangement with the Governor, 
 afterwards put similar apparatus in the Senate Chamber 
 at a cost of $21,625. The evidence is that a full price 
 would have been $11,102, and that the work is obsolete 
 and well nigh useless. The electrical plant in the State 
 House, with fixtures and supplies, cost about $46,000. 
 The evidence indicates gross overcharges and the prob- 
 able payment of commissions on this work. 
 
 While much of the work at the State House is said to 
 have been done by contract after competitive bidding, the 
 evidence of that fact is missing from the public files. The 
 bids, correspondence and other documents appear to have 
 been kept in the Executive oifices, and all of these, with 
 all the executive files, were removed from the State House 
 at the close of the term of the Governor preceding the 
 present Governor. This course was unprecedented and 
 has been a source of embarrassment to the Committee in 
 their inquiries. 
 
 Seven thousand dollars was spent in furnishing the 
 Senate Chamber under an appropriation to ventilate it. 
 
 We think, that from 1889 to 1894, there was great 
 waste and, in not a few cases, corruption and bribery of 
 officials in the reconstruction, furnishing and supplving 
 of the State House. Where gross overcharges and false 
 charges occur the evidence warrants the belief that it was 
 always by the collusion or acquiescence of some State 
 officer or employe. 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. vii 
 
 STATE EXPENDITURES. 
 
 The ordinary expenses of the government, excluding 
 public debt, were about eight hundred thousand dollars in 
 1875, and in 1884 they had reached only one million 
 dollars. Thenceforth, until 1^94, the increase was rapid, 
 the total in the latter year being $1,653,000. The in- 
 crease is largely due to the multiplication of State oflScers 
 and State boards, to the increased expense of maintaining 
 the State House, to the appropriation for public roads, to 
 the increase of cost of maintaining the courts, the in- 
 creased salaries of some State oflScers, and the increase of 
 maintaining the militia. In the past few years some of 
 the increase is also due to the extravagance elsewhere re- 
 ferred to in this report, though much was charged to ex- 
 traordinary expenses. 
 
 The total expenditures from the State fund for govern- 
 ment in 1894, including ordinary, extraordinary and public 
 debt payments, were $1,930,255 ; the amount raised and 
 appropriated by the State to the support of free public 
 schools was the further sum of $2,196,240, making the 
 entire sum expended by the State government $4,126,495. 
 
 LEGISLATIVE EXPENSES. 
 
 The expenses of the Legislature increased from $53,578 
 in 1875 to $125,249 in 1893. In 1894 the expense fell off 
 to $108,791. It is difficult to see why these expenses 
 should thus increase. The number of members of the 
 Legislature has not changed since 1844. The volume of 
 laws now passed is much smaller than it was twenty 
 years ago, and there seems to be no change requiring 
 materially increased expenses. The growth seems to 
 have arisen chiefly from the multiplying of offices to 
 
viii RKPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 attend upon the Legislature, and from the reckless extrav- 
 agance in the purchase of legislative supplies. 
 
 We recommend the passage of a law prescribing the 
 number of oflScers for each House, and the salaries for 
 each, and we report herewith a bill for that purpose. 
 
 COURT EXPENSES. 
 
 The costs of the courts has increased from $65,659 in 
 1875 to $171,826 in 1894. The increase has been gradual 
 and unceasing. It is due to the increase in the number 
 of judges, the increase of salaries, and the abolishing of 
 the fee system in compensating judges. 
 
 This expense cannot with propriety be curtailed. 
 
 PROMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 
 
 The State publishes the laws by a two-fold method ; 
 first, by printing 8,000 copies in book form, at a cost of 
 about $2,000 annually ; and second, by publishing them 
 in 90 newspapers (45 Democratic and 45 Republican), at 
 a cost which, this year, will be probably $135,000. The 
 cost is unusually large this year owing to the larger 
 volume of laws. The average cost for the last five years 
 has been $89,518. 
 
 A majority of the newspapers do not set up and print 
 the laws as they do other advertisements, nor do they 
 yield any of their advertising space to the State. The 
 laws are set up at Somerville, and in New York and else- 
 where, and large editions are struck off in supplement 
 form which are sold to newspapers for a small price. For 
 example, this year each newspaper is paid by the State 
 $1,300 for publishing the laws thus far given out for pub- 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. ix 
 
 lication. The publisher of the paper buys for about 
 $ioo from the New York printer a sufficient number of 
 copies, folds them into his regular edition and circulates 
 them. Then upon an affidavit that he has published the 
 laws he is paid $1,300 by the Treasurer. 
 
 In some 6f the cities and towns one newspaper sets the 
 type for its own use and lends it to its neighbors, who 
 share the expense, one setting of type thus serving for 
 three or four papers. In some of the largest cities the 
 newspapers set their own type for their own use solely. 
 
 Most of the States make no publication of the laws in 
 newspapers, and those few which have adopted the prac- 
 tice have so limited it that the cost is moderate. They 
 publish only the general laws, or if they print a law of 
 local application they publish it only in the locality 
 affected. 
 
 In New Jersey practically all laws are published every- 
 where. We find no parallel in any State for the reckless 
 waste of our system. The following figures will show 
 approximately the relative total cost of promulgating the 
 laws in different States in 1894 : 
 
 Maine $3,500 
 
 New Hampshire 7>8oo 
 
 Vermont, 4,000 
 
 Massachusetts, 3,000 
 
 Connecticut 2,500 
 
 Virginia 3,500 
 
 Missouri, 5, 000 
 
 Ohio, . . . 7,000 
 
 Michigan 7,136 
 
 New Jersey 80,422 
 
 No States afford any figures at all comparable with New 
 Jersey except New York and Pennsylvania, which do 
 publish in the newspapers, but on a scale relatively much 
 more economical than our plan. 
 
X REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 Notwitlistauding the great cost, our laws are not 
 promptly published, it haviug often happened that the 
 book of laws could not be obtained until July or August, 
 although the Legislature had adjourned in April. This 
 delay is wholly unnecessary. It is entirely feasible to 
 print the laws in pamphlet form daily as they are passed, 
 as the Minutes of Assembly are now printed. 
 
 We recommend that a bill be passed providing that the 
 Secretary of State shall, as fast as the acts are filed in his 
 office, forthwith supply copies thereof to the public printer, 
 who shall print the same from day to day, so that all laws 
 passed in one week may be laid before the Legislature by 
 Monday night of the following week ; the printer to print 
 twenty-five thousand copies and deliver to the State, in 
 siitched sheets, at least four thousand copies thereof from 
 day te day, as printed ; these to be distributed by the 
 document clerk, first, to the Legislature and State officers ; 
 secondly, to all County Clerks and City Clerks, in suffi- 
 cient numbers to supply all persons desiring to obtain 
 copies ; copies also to be delivered to all persons who 
 apply for them, either in person or by mail ; all the copies 
 of the laws not so required to be retained by the printer in 
 sheets, and at the close of the session of the Legislature, 
 bound up in volumes and delivered to all the County 
 Clerks and City Clerks for distribution, and also to be 
 sent to all persons who apply for the same. 
 
 This plan will enable any person interested to have a 
 copy- of the laws, without charge, within a few days after 
 their passage, and also provide an ample supply of the 
 volumes for preservation by all who require them. 
 
 We deem this matter of great importance from two 
 points of view : First, the expense has reached a degree 
 of extravagance which the State cannot afford. We think 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. xi 
 
 the expense of this year will be $125,000 in excess of what 
 it ought to be. 
 
 By proper enactments the laws may at a cost of $5,000 
 to $10,000 per year be much more promptly and satisfac- 
 torily promulgated than by the present costly method. 
 When great States like Massachusetts, Michigan, Ohio, 
 Missouri and Illinois, far surpassing New Jersey in popu- 
 lation, wealth and area,, find $3,000 to $7,000 a sufficient 
 sum for the promulgation of the laws, how can we justify 
 an expenditure of $135,000. 
 
 Secondly. We think the present system objectionable 
 as a system of patronage. The selection of papers is ar- 
 bitrary, for papers of trivial circulation may be chosen, 
 while large and widely read journals are ignored. The 
 influential journal of the large city, which at its own 
 expense and at high rates of wages, sets up the laws and 
 gives its valuable space to their publication, receives no 
 more than the village weekly, which buys a few hundred 
 " supplements " and sends them out. 
 
 To some of these latter the money paid by the State is 
 almost wholly profit and does much to keep the paper 
 alive. This is vicious and has an evil tendency. It is 
 inevitable that the publishers of such papers will be in- 
 fluenced by these gifts, and that their independence so vital 
 to censorship of public affairs and the guidance of public 
 opinion, will be hampered. Moreover it is no function of 
 the State to support newspapers. Beneficent and useful 
 as their office is, to reward them in this way is in viola- 
 tion of the letter and spirit of the Constitution. 
 
 Chapter two of the laws of the present year takes effect 
 in no city until adopted by the people. It has already 
 been voted on and rejected by the people of one city. 
 
xii REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 and we are not aware that any other city of the State de- 
 sires to adopt it. The act is long, and it will cost nine 
 thousand dollars to print in the newspapers. The Com- 
 mitLee therefore suggested to the Secretary of State to 
 withhold this act from publication in the newspapers 
 until the Legislature should meet, with a view to 
 economy. We recommend that an act be passed provid- 
 ing that it need not be published in the newspapers. 
 
 PRINTING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS, BLANKS AND STATIONERY. 
 
 The act of 1883 required this work to be given out by 
 contract after competitive bidding, and made it the duty 
 of each officer to furnish a list of his requirements for the 
 year, with samples. 
 
 This law has effected a great saving, but by the neglect 
 and design of certain public officers its thorough enforce- 
 ment ha? been obstructed and thwarted. Boards and 
 officers have delayed sending in their reports until after 
 the printing contract was awarded, and then the printing 
 has been given out to favored printers at extravagant 
 prices. State officers have either wholly neglected to 
 send in requisitions for blanks and stationery or sent in 
 meagre estimates, and afterwards have given out to favored 
 persons their valuable orders at enormous prices, certify- 
 ing upon the bills when presented that the necessity 
 for the articles was not known at the time their requisi- 
 tions were made. It is, of course, impossible to anticipate 
 all the requirements, and some of the certificates are 
 therefore legitimate, but in other cases large and valuable 
 orders for blanks required bylaw to he annually provided, 
 and therefore necessarily anticipated, have been habitually 
 omitted from the requisitions and afterwards given out to 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. xiii 
 
 favored persons at prices two or three times as great as 
 the contract prices — to persons, moreover, who have pur- 
 posely refrained from competing for the contract, confi- 
 dently relying upon their friends among the State officers 
 to give them the really valuable parts of the printing at 
 high rates. We can term this nothing less than collusion 
 to defraud the State. 
 
 In the German printing, downright conspiracy to de- 
 fraud the State has been proved. The successful bidder 
 for 1893 paid to one rival $300 to bid high, to another 
 $500 for the same purpose ; and he induced the lowest 
 bidder (who had bid 45 cents per thousand ems) to with- 
 draw his bid, paying him $500 in cash and giving back to 
 him a part of the contract at 76 cents. The Comptroller 
 was greatly at fault in this matter. He not only released 
 the lowest bidder from printing the school report, from 
 which he asked to be released, but also told him that he 
 could not print the factory report either, on which he also 
 had bid 45 cents, and which he was willing to print. The 
 result was that the rival got both at 76 cents and forth- 
 with turned the factory report back at "j^ cents to the man 
 who had offered to do it at 45, and who proceeded to print 
 it, putting on the name of the publisher who had bribed 
 him. He was a responsible man and had tendered ample 
 security. The terms of the specifications called for a sep- 
 arate bid on each item. In allowing this conspiracy to 
 succeed, the Comptiroller was either in collusion with the 
 conspirators or was excessively stupid and indifferent to 
 the State's interests. The result was a loss of several 
 thousand dollars to the State. Fortunately, part of the 
 price for printing the report of the Board of Education 
 remains unpaid. We recommend that the Comptroller 
 be directed not to pay it until after an adjustment of the 
 
xiv REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 accounts on such a basis that the State will lose as little 
 as possible by these frauds. 
 
 The translation of documents into foreign languages 
 seems to have been awarded at a high price to some 
 person who then farmed it out at a very low price to the 
 actual translators. 
 
 The State has at different times printed its laws and 
 documents in German, Italian, Dutch and possibly other 
 languages. Some editions of these documents appear to 
 be entirely unbroken, not a copy being called for. The 
 object of this printing in foreign languages is to give a 
 job of public patronage to some newspaper printed in the 
 foreign language, doubtless with the hope of commanding 
 that newspaper's support for one political party or the 
 other. 
 
 We believe this State printing in foreign languages 
 should be entirely abolished. American citizens should 
 learn the English language. In New Jersey, where the 
 immigrant is required to reside five years before becoming 
 a citizen, ample time is afforded to learn to speak and read 
 English, and we think as a matter of fact practically all 
 these naturalized citizens, who can read their mother 
 tongue, do learn to read English. 
 
 For their own sake and the good of the State they 
 should by all means be encouraged therein. If a public 
 document is to be printed at all in a German paper it 
 should be in the English language. • 
 
 The law provides that only such reports and documents 
 shall be included in the book of documents as the Legis- 
 lature may prescribe, and that the book shall be contained 
 annually in two volumes. The Legislature having for 
 several years failed to prescribe what documents are to be 
 included it has been the custom to call together the joint 
 Committee on Printing and they have decided how many 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. xv 
 
 copies of each report should be printed. But no document 
 has been excluded or curtailed. All are printed with all 
 their illustr-ations, appendices, tables and schedules The 
 result is that the annual book, in violation of law, now 
 consists of five great volumes of some 2,000 pages each 
 and the few really valuable reports are buried in this 
 mass. 
 
 Moreover, the total cost of printing is inordinately in- 
 creased. For example, the bills for printing in German 
 the report of the Board of Education for 1893 will be from 
 $15,000 to $18,000. The amount paid in 1894 for print- 
 ing documents and charged to " printing " was $63,081 08. 
 This is not all, for much printing was charged to other 
 accounts. To many of the reports are appended copies of 
 the laws of New Jersey, decisions of our courts, tables, 
 schedules, newspaper clippings, letters and other matters 
 of great bulk. This reprinting of the laws and decisions 
 year after year is unwarrantable. A simple reference to 
 the books wherein they are to be found would be sufficient. 
 As to the other matter, much of it has no permanent or 
 even present value. This mass of chaff should be win- 
 nowed, so that the kernels in it may be found and pre- 
 served, and the waste of money stopped. 
 
 We recommend the passage of a bill constituting the 
 Governor, Comptroller and Treasurer a printing board to 
 determine what shall be printed, and to exclude the rest. 
 
 Another mischief needs correction. Some boards and 
 officers, instead of sending in their reports in November, 
 in time to be printed and laid before the Legislature, 
 delay until after the Legislature has adjourned. Some 
 have delayed a year and more. Some of the reports for 
 1893 came in from the printer in April, 1895. This delay 
 renders the reports practically useless as a basis for 
 legislation. 
 
xvi REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 We recommend that all annual reports to the Governor 
 or Legislature by boards, commissions or officers, be 
 required to be made as of October 31st, and actually 
 delivered to the Governor on or before the 30th day of 
 November, and that as a penalty for delay every delin- 
 quent officer shall forfeit one-half his salary from Novem- 
 ber 30th until the report is filed. 
 
 COMPENSATION OF COURT CLERKS. 
 
 The Clerk in Chancery and Clerk of the Supreme 
 Court are required by the act of 1879 to make sworn 
 quarterly returns of the gross fees and compensation 
 received for their own use. The Clerk of the Supreme 
 Court has made returns of every quarter for sixteen 
 years, but none of them are correct. He has returned at 
 the end of each quarter the amount collected in that quar- 
 ter which was earned in that quarter^ excluding collections 
 on account of previous quarters. Such a statement is of 
 no value and is not a compliance with the law. Those 
 returns show his fees to be for 1892, $9,105.56; for 1893, 
 $8,985.96 ; for 1894, $9,649 88. In fact his fees actually 
 collected were, according to his testimony, for 1892, 
 $37>37o; for 1893, $34,605 ; for 1894, $46,004. The ex- 
 penses of running the office are about $12,000, which is 
 about the amount of the fees received from suits. The net 
 income to the Clerk for the past four years is $27,000 
 per annum, which is about the amount now derived from 
 searching. The fees were less during former years, as will 
 be seen by reference to the evidence The compensation 
 is too great. We recommend that the searching fees be 
 reduced to 30 per cent, of the prices now allowed by law. 
 
 The present Clerk in Chancery for the first few terms 
 made returns on the same plan as the Clerk of the Supreme 
 
RKPORT OF COMMITTEE. xvii 
 
 Court. Thereafter for several years he made no returns, and 
 and lately has returned the amount of his net fees, after 
 paying the current expenses of his office, which, he says, 
 are about half the gross receipts. His returns show for 
 1891, $19,285; for 1892, $18,226; for 189J, $17,838. He 
 testifies that the gross revenues for the past nine years 
 have been about $33,000 per year, and the net revenues 
 are half as much. The clerk receives from the State sums 
 averaging perhaps $1,200 per year for keeping dockets, 
 &c. These fees should be abolished. He also receives 
 large sums from the State for his costs in the State's suits 
 to enforce the payment of taxes by delinquent corpora- 
 tions. These fees should also be abolished, and he should 
 render these services without compensation. The fees 
 still remaining would afford him a liberal income. 
 
 We recommend also that the law be so changed that the 
 clerks shall hereafter return not only the gross fees re- 
 ceived by them, but also the expenses of their offices, 
 and that their returns be made at the close of each term 
 of court, instead of quarterly. 
 
 SECRETARY OF STATE. 
 
 By an act passed March 10, 1879, the Secretary of 
 State was paid an annual salary of $6,000 in lieu of all 
 other compensation, with an allowance of $4,000 for 
 clerical assistants, and it was provided that thereafter all 
 fees collected by him in whatever capacity should be for 
 the use of the State. 
 
 He collects several classes of fees : I. Under act of 
 March 10, 1879, (Sup. Rev. 892,) he collects /or the use 
 of the State fees for filing papers, issuing commissions, 
 etc. Of these he is to render to the Comptroller a quar- 
 terly report in detail^ under oath, to be audited by the 
 
xviii REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 C'^imptroller and filed with the Treasurer. Within ten 
 days thereafter he must pay the fees to the Treasurer, 
 under penalty of $500 for each day's neglect. These fees 
 are from $10,000 to $20,000 per year. No report of these 
 fees has ever been filed. 
 
 Annually in October the Secretary of State has handed 
 a check to the Treasurer, without particulars, but with a 
 letter of transmission, stating that the check covered the 
 amount of fees received. 
 
 II. Under act of March 11, 1880 (Rev. Sup. 898, pi 22, 
 et seq.), he collects for the use of the State the fees of the 
 judges in the courts of which he is clerk ; of these he is to 
 make quarterly returns in detail of all fees so charged up. 
 No such return has ever been made. He has annually 
 paid over a sum in gross in the same manner as above, 
 the amount being about three hundred dollars per year. 
 
 III. Under the supplement to the Corporation Act, 
 passed 1883 (P. L. page 62), he collects for the use of the 
 State certain fees from corporations. These have 
 amounted to as much as $125,000 in one year. This act 
 is silent as to the time of paying these moneys over, but 
 the act of March 24th, 1868 (Rev. 12 19, pi. 40), imposes 
 on all public officers who, as agents of the State, receive 
 moneys, the duty forthwith upon receipt of the money to 
 report the same to the Comptroller for audit before any 
 acquittance is given. These fees have never at any time 
 been reported for audit, but an annual payment has been, 
 made to the Treasurer, without any details. %■ 
 
 Under these three acts about nine hundred thousand'' 
 dollars has been paid into the State's revenues by the ■ 
 Secretary of State. No examination of the account has 
 ever been made, and there is no public record thereof. 
 The only account seems to be iu the private books of the 
 Secretary of State, which contain also fees received by 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. xix 
 
 him .and retained to his own use. There is no public 
 record to show whether any particular corporation has 
 paid its dues, nor anything to indicate from whom the 
 State has received these vast sums of money. The 
 evidence shows that the Secretary of State mingled the 
 moneys with his own, and, to use his own expression, 
 they were " absorbed in his personal affairs," never at 
 any time being kept separate. In fact, they were all 
 invested in his personal business enterprises, the money 
 not being kept on hand. 
 
 At the end of the fiscal year he raised the necessary 
 amounts and gave his checks to the Stale. It has been 
 impracticable for the Committee as yet to make any 
 thorough examination of the accounts, covering as they 
 do a period of twelve years and involving a multitude of 
 items, but they are of opinion that steps should be taken 
 to verify the correctness of the amounts paid to the State. 
 
 IV. An act was passed April i8th, 189 1 (P. L- 511), 
 providing that the Secretary of State as Clerk of the 
 Prerogative Court should thereafter record certain docu- 
 ments as surrogates were required to do^ receiving the 
 same fees therefor. He has construed this act to allow 
 him to retain these fees for his own use It seems this 
 cons.truction was questioned by the Comptroller and the 
 fees waived by the Secretary for a time, but afterwards he 
 took them, and still continues to do so They amount to. 
 from $3,000 to $4,000 per year. We do not think the act 
 was intended to supersede the law which provided that 
 the Secretary of State should receive a salary of $6,000 for 
 all his services. These fees, we think, belong to the State. 
 
 We recommend the passage of an act explicitly requir- 
 ing the Secretary of State to turn these fees into the State 
 Treasury at the end of each. term. Whether they be- 
 longed to the State or to the Secretary, a sworn statement 
 
XX REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 should have been made quarterly, as required by the acts 
 of 1879. No statement whatever has been made since 
 1891. 
 
 As above stated, by the act of 1879 the Secretary was 
 allowed $4,000 per annum for clerical assistants ; by acts 
 passed in 1883 he was allowed to pay certain clerical ex- 
 penses in connection with his duties as Insurance Com- 
 missioner and in connection with corporations, out of the 
 fees' received by him. The testimony shows that at the' 
 end of each year in turning in the fees he deducted there- 
 from certain sums paid for salaries to the clerks in his 
 office. Adding these sums to the $4,000 paid to him 
 annually, it appears that he has received much more than 
 he has paid for clerical assistants, the excess being several 
 thousand dollars. These sums should be returned to the 
 treasury. 
 
 It is to be noted that although the Secretary has 
 retained for his own use all fees from the Prerogative 
 Office since 1891, amounting as above to from $3,000 to 
 $4,000 a year, yet he has charged the State with the 
 entire clerical expenses of that office. It thus appears 
 that the Secretary of State, instead of receiving compen- 
 sation of $6,000 a year, as provided by the Act of 1879, 
 has increased that compensation to about $11,000 to 
 $12,000 per year, besides the gains made by the use of 
 the State's monej'^s. These gains should be ascertained 
 according to law and paid into the treasury. 
 
 The moneys collected by the Secretary of State for the 
 use of the State, although large in amount, are made up 
 of a great number of items, and it is therefore inconve- 
 nient to have each item reported and audited separately. 
 We recommend that the law be modified so as to provide 
 for a weekly itemized report of all such fees and payment 
 thereof to the Comptroller, except court fees, which should 
 
REPORT OP COMMITTEE. xxi 
 
 be reported and paid over at tlie close of each term of 
 court. 
 
 BANK DEPOSITS. 
 
 The State Treasurer at all times has large balances in 
 bank. This fact aflForded the opportunity for a clerk in 
 his office to privately arrange with the banks of Burling- 
 ton county to pay interest to the clerk for a series of years 
 for political purposes. This irregularity was fully dis- 
 closed before the Committee. The Treasurers were not 
 personally implicated. 
 
 The law requires the Treasurer to keep the State's 
 funds in bank and makes it his duty to lend any surplus 
 on United States stocks as collateral, timing his loans so 
 as to have funds to meet the requirements of the treasury. 
 No loans have been made for many years. 
 
 If the policy of lending State funds is to remain on the 
 statute book, the list of securities available for collateral 
 should be increased, as United States stocks are nolonger 
 readily obtainable as collateral. The importance' of this 
 matter demands the deliberate consideration of the Legis- 
 lature. 
 
 JUDICIAL FEES AND OTHER REVENUES. 
 
 The clerks of the several courts are required to make a 
 statement in detail, and pay over quarterly all fees received 
 for the use of the State. The Clerk in Chancery and 
 some of the County Clerks have complied with this require- 
 ment The Clerk of the Supreme Court has made returns 
 each term, but only of the gross amounts, giving no details 
 Many of the County Clerks are greatly in arrears, and 
 should be prosecuted by the Comptroller. Fines and forfeit- 
 ures are collected by sundry officers, but very little is paid 
 into the treasury. There is no proper supervision of this 
 
xxii REPORT OF COMMITTEE- 
 
 subject. Some agent of the State should be placed in 
 charge of the matter under the Comptroller. 
 
 From the oyster fund in Cumberland county on more 
 than one occasion the State School Fund should have 
 received a payment of $2,000, but nothing has been 
 Collected. 
 
 SPECIAL STATE BOARDS. 
 
 The multiplication of special bureaus has led to largely 
 increased expenditures. Some of these bureaus were ex- 
 perimental and are of doubtful utility. The Board of 
 Arbitration was shown to have been extravagant in its 
 charges against the State. The allowances for services 
 and traveling expenses were apparently made up with the 
 intention of getting as much as possible out of the treas- 
 ury. Ten cents per mile was charged to the State by 
 members who were traveling on free passes. Numerous 
 meetings of the Board were held at Trenton for the 
 avowed purpose of influencing legislation, the State pay- 
 ing thetraveling expenses, hotel bills and per diem allow- 
 ances of the members and clerk while so engaged. Con- 
 veniences for the private use of the members were charged 
 to the State. 
 
 The Legislature has already re-organized this Board 
 and changed the rate of compensation. We understand, 
 however, that questions have lately arisen under the new 
 act as to allowances for expanses, and we recommend that 
 all doubts bs set at rest by a supplemental act Several 
 thousand dollars a year have been saved and better ser- 
 vice secured. 
 
 The Bureau of Statistics of Labor and Industries is be- 
 coming more expansive. The mere printing of its report 
 co5ts about $3, GOD. Work of this sort, to be valuable re- 
 quires the exercise of peculiar talents of a high order, ' 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. xxiii 
 
 and a rare discriminating judgment. Moreover, the facts 
 should be collated from a wider field than that afforded by 
 this State alone, and a great organization is necessary. 
 This work is now being done by the Federal Government, 
 and we see no sufficient reason for continuing the bureau 
 in this State. We recommend that it be abolished. This 
 will save $ii,ooo a year. 
 
 The State now supports two taxing boards of four mem- 
 bers each — the State Board of Assessors and the State 
 Board of Taxation, to all of whom the State pays salaries, 
 besides the salaries of clerks and other assistants. 
 
 The annual expense of the two boards is about $35,000. 
 
 One board is quite sufficient for the duties of both, and 
 is desirable to the end that valuations of corporate and 
 individual property may be the better equalized. We re- 
 commend the consolidation of these boards into one new 
 Board of Assessment and Taxation, to consist of four 
 members, to be appointed by the Governor and confirmed 
 by the Senate. 
 
 Serious irregularities have existed in certain expendi- 
 tures of the State Board of Assessors. In their annual 
 report they have in each year since 1887 stated that they 
 adopted a railroad map of the State as part of their report. 
 The map was an outline lithographed map of New Jersey, 
 showing the railroads. It was prepared by the Secretary 
 of the Board and another clerk in the employ of the State, 
 much or all of the material being paid for by the State. 
 
 In 1887 the State paid $1,500 for the entire original 
 edition of 6,000 copies. The State also paid for mounting 
 several hundred of these copies, the cost being about 
 twenty-five cents each. Many of these mounted copies 
 were then again sold to the State officers and paid for by 
 the State at $3.50 each, and many mounted copies were 
 sold to the public by the Secretary for bis own profit. 
 
xxiv REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 Annually thereafter, until 1894, the State paid for fur- 
 ther editions of the map, buying in all, 41,000 copies. 
 The fact is that only 6,000 copies of the original map have 
 ever been printed, being those printed in 1887. After- 
 wards, in 1892, 1893 and 1894, four thousand copies of a 
 revised and reduced edition were printed, of which only 
 2,600 have been delivered by the printer, 1,400 being held 
 in New York because not paid for. Therefore no more 
 than 8,600 copies of both editions of the map ever were de- 
 livered to the State. These facts show deliberate fraud by 
 the Secretary, great carelessness on the part of the mem- 
 bers of the Board and their other employees, and care- 
 less conduct on the part of the printers who year after 
 year presented to the State sworn bills for maps which 
 they had neither furnished nor seen. Their excuse is 
 that the Secretary assured them the maps had been re- 
 ceived and on this assurance they drew about $1,500 per 
 year from the State, retained ten per cent, of it, and paid 
 the rest to the Secretary. The money thus lost to the 
 treasury is fully $8,000. We recommend that the Comp- 
 troller be directed to proceed for its collection against the 
 Secretary, the printers who received it and any other per- 
 sons who may be liable. 
 
 The Secretary of the Board also drew from the State an- 
 nually several hundred dollars fees for making returns to 
 writs of certiorari sued out against the Board by the sev- 
 eral railroads. These fees were" also paid by the railroad 
 companies, being thus collected twice by the Secretary. 
 They were not properly chargeable to the State and should 
 be recovered. 
 
 It was also shown that conveniences for the private use 
 of the Secretary had been paid for by the State. 
 
 The State Dairy Commissioner's expenditures should 
 be submitted to the State Board of Health and approved 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. xxv 
 
 by them, and then audited by the Comptroller and paid 
 by his warrant as in the case of other departments. 
 Furthermore, we recommend that the expenditures of his 
 office in enforcing the milk, oleomargarine and food and 
 drug acts be limited to $ii,ooo per year, including his own 
 salary. This will effect a considerable saving and place 
 the expenditures of the office under the proper supervision. 
 
 BOARD OF RIPARIAN COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 This Board, created in 1869, still continues, its expenses 
 (chiefly for salaries of members and engineers) amount- 
 ing in 1893 to $15,918, and in 1894 to $16,249. Iti^ well 
 known that the most valuable riparian lands have already 
 been disposed of. The entire principal sum derived from 
 new grants in 1893 was $20,958.84, and in 1894 was $14,123, 
 being but little more than enough to pay the expenses of 
 the Board. Meantime the new leases given were very 
 small in amount. 
 
 To consume the entire principal of the grants in ad- 
 ministering the Board is intolerable. We recommend the 
 abolition of salaries to the members of the Board and the 
 granting of a greatly reduced appropriation for engineering 
 and other expenses. 
 
 SUPPORT OF FEEBLE-MINDED CHILDREN. 
 
 Under the act of March 12, 1873, the State pays a sum 
 not exceeding $330 per child, for maintaining and clothing 
 feeble-minded children. By the gathering in of great 
 numbers of children, the demands for this account have 
 enormously increased. In 1894 there wa'; paid to the 
 following institutions : 
 
xxvi REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 The New Jersey Training School for Feeble-Minded Children, 
 
 at Vineland, which last year supported iSi children, . . $46,000 
 
 The Pennsylvania Training School at Elwyn, Pa.. 44 children, 10,196 
 
 New York Institution for the Blind, New York City, 31 pupils, 9,223 
 
 Pennsylvania Institution for the Blind, 14 pupils, . . . 4,343 
 
 Connecticut School for Imbeciles, 2 pupils, .... . . 5^3 
 
 $7f,325 
 Estimate for the year ending October 31, 1S95, . . $72i99i 
 
 This is exclusive of the amount paid for the support of 
 feeble-minded women. For this purpose there was paid 
 last year $17,463, and the estimated amount to be paid for 
 the present year is $19,624. 
 
 This has become so serious a charge upon the treasury 
 as to demand attention. For children requiring special 
 care and instruction perhaps the allowance is not too 
 great, but for others we believe it is much too high. 
 Furthermore, it should be ascertained whether the State 
 is supporting children who should be maintained by rela- 
 tives. 
 
 COURT OF PARDONS. 
 
 The Board of Pardons has lost the confidence of the 
 people, and it is scarcely too much to say that some of its 
 actions in recent years are a public scandal. 
 
 The facts of the Evangeline Hamilton case as proved 
 before us are shameful. This woman having two counsel 
 had at the March term made an unsuccessful application 
 for pardon. Two members of the Board afterwards told 
 her counsel that they favored the pardon, but that the 
 Governor was the stumbling block and added that if the 
 pardon was desired a certain other counsel must be re- 
 tained 
 
 The Governor sent for the keeper of the prison and told 
 him that he did not thiuk the present counsel would suc- 
 ceed, and that if the prisoner wanted a pardon she had 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. xxvii 
 
 better retain a certain other counsel, being the same that 
 the judges had mentioned. The counsel who had been 
 suggested was retained at a cost of $i,ooo. 
 
 He prepared no petition, no brief nor other paper, nor 
 did he communicate with the prisoner. He spoke to the 
 Governor, whose office adjoined his own in New York, and 
 to other members of the Board, and at the next meeting, 
 twelve days later, the pardon was granted. 
 
 A few years ago our local and State Governments fell 
 largely under the influence of race track gamblers and 
 other law breakers. This was accomplished by a wicked 
 coalition between them and certain leaders of the domi- 
 nant political party, and continued by crimes against the 
 suffrage which, growing worse year by year, culminated 
 in the election 1889, when notorious and far-reaching 
 frauds were committed in. the cities. 
 
 The Senate made a laborious and expensive inves- 
 tigation of these crimes in Hudson county, and 
 laid bare an astounding conspiracy in which more 
 than 100 election officers besides city and county 
 officials were involved. Sixty-eight of these were in- 
 dicted and fifty-eight convicted of conspiracy to thwart 
 the election laws. After two years of strenuous litigation 
 these convictions were affirmed by the highest court, and 
 the conspirators sentenced to terms from nine to eighteen 
 months in prison. Thirty-two were actually placed in the 
 State Prison and twelve in the Hudson County Peniten- 
 tiary in the fall of 1892. 
 
 This was doubtless the most important and numerous 
 series of convictions ever entered in this State ; and few 
 parallels to it can be found in the record of criminal 
 jurisprudence anywhere. 
 
 Of the justice of these convictions and their thorough 
 approval by the people of the State there is no doubt. 
 
xxviii REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 The great guilt of the prisoners had twice been made 
 manifest to the public, by the Senate investigation and by 
 their own trials, and their punishment was deemed leni- 
 ent. And yet without any petition from citizens (except 
 in two special cases) without any record before the Board 
 of Pardons, without even the usual formal application by 
 the prisoners, without the intervention of the counsel for 
 either prosecution or defense, the Board of Pardons of 
 their own motion released all these thirty-two men from 
 prison in one day, a few months after their imprisonment 
 began. Nay more, so eager were they for the release that 
 they caused the paroles to be made out and recorded 
 together with paroles of the twelve conspirators in the 
 Hudson County Penitentiary, two days before the Board 
 met. 
 
 When they met, for some unknown reason, the twelve 
 in the penitentiary were not released, and the record of 
 iheir paroles stands to-day in the book of paroles, with 
 the names of the Governor and Secretary of State at the 
 bottom crossed out and made void. 
 
 The only person who appeared to urge '.hese paroles 
 was the chairman of the State Committee of that political 
 party in whose interests the election frauds had been com- 
 mitted. 
 
 It should be noted to their honor that the Chancellor of 
 New Jersey and one of the judges of the Court of Errors 
 and Appeals recorded their votes in the negative. 
 
 This extraordinary action of the Board was a stupen- 
 dous miscarriage of justice. It was a plain notice to the 
 disorderly that offenders against the suffrage would be 
 forgiven and protected ; that the party in whose interest 
 the ballot-boxes were stuffed would take care of the stuf- 
 fers and that even the Board of Pardons could be relied on 
 to do the party's bidding. 
 
REPORT OF committee;. xxix 
 
 Nothing more discouraging to law-abiding citizens can 
 be conceived. The baifling at the place of final resort of 
 long-continued efforts to stamp out these dangerous and 
 ruinous crimes against the ballot was most disheartening 
 to all patriotic citizens. 
 
 Meantime the race-track gamblers and other gamblers 
 "secured control of legislative action. They persisted in 
 breaking the laws openly and in avowed defiance of the 
 courts. An aroused public sentiment protested, but pro- 
 tests were treated with contempt and derision. Grand 
 Juries began to indict and courts to convict these persist- 
 ent offenders. Of course they appealed, but their con- 
 victions were affirmed. Then they resorted to the Board 
 of Pardons. In July, 1893, the four convicts who had 
 kept a disorderly place at the Clifton race-track and who 
 had been sentenced to the State Prison, were finally 
 brought to the Court of Krrors and Appeals. They 
 applied to the Board of Pardons and were instantly freed 
 without serving a day in prison. 
 
 An overwhelming public sentiment had become aroused 
 and in the November following wrought a political revolu- 
 tion in the State. In 1894 this sentiment was manifested 
 with tremendously augmented force. Good citizens of all 
 parties united by a majority absolutely unprecedented to 
 hurl from office every man within their reach who was 
 tainted with the gambling blight. In August, 1893, an 
 influential race-track gambler at Monmouth murdered 
 another. To save himself from the gallows he pleaded 
 guilty of manslaughter and was sentenced to serve in 
 prison for ten years. The Board of Pardons released him 
 on March 30th, 1895, after sixteen months' imprisonment. 
 
 The four convicts who owned the Guttenberg race-track, 
 and who defiantly gambled there for years, making enor- 
 mous gains in the face of repeated warnings from the 
 
XXX REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 Court, were condemned by the Court of last resort, aud 
 their just punishment in the prison was about to begin. 
 The Board of Pardons was hastily convened, and their 
 imprisonment was remitted on the eighteenth day of May 
 last, within forty-eight hours after the Court of Errors had 
 condemned them. Again the Chancellor and another 
 Judge dissented and placed on record a scathing protest 
 against the action of the Board. 
 
 This Board, in the face of an aroused and indignant 
 public sentiment, in the face of the opinions of the learned 
 judges, in the face of the evidence and the verdicts of 
 juries, continues to nullify the judgments of the Courts 
 by the release of the State's most prominent and defiant 
 convicts. 
 
 The pardoning power rests with the Executive, and not 
 with the Legislative Department, but so far as these 
 abuses can be modified bylaw, the Legislature -should act. 
 We recommend, first, that the resolutions lately passed 
 proposing a Constitutional amendment for the re-organiza 
 tion of the Board of Pardons, be again passed at the next 
 session, to the end that they may be adopted by the people. 
 Second, that an act be passed requiring that all applications 
 for pardons or paroles, or the remission of fines and for- 
 feitures, be filed with the Clerk of the Court at least thirty 
 days before final action thereon, and that in every case in 
 which a pardon shall be granted, or a fine or forfeiture 
 remitted, the reasons therefor shall be publicly assigned 
 and entered upon the minutes of the Court. 
 
 ANNUAL APPROPRIATIONS. 
 
 The Constitution of New Jersey (Art. 4, Sec. 6, p. 2), 
 provides that " No money shall be drawn from the 
 treasury but for appropriations made by law." This pro- 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. xxxi 
 
 vision follows that in the Constitution of the United 
 States, and is substantially the same provision found in 
 the Constitutions of all the States. Mr. Justice Story, in 
 his Commentaries upon the Constitution (Book 3, p. 213), 
 says : 
 
 " It is highly proper that Congress should possess the 
 power to decide how and when any money should be 
 applied for these purposes. If it were otherwise, the 
 Executive would possess an unbounded power over the 
 public purse of the nation; and might apply all its moneyed 
 resources at his pleasure. The power to control and 
 direct the appropriations, constitute a most useful and 
 salutary check upon profusion and extravagance, as well 
 as upon corrupt influence and public peculation." 
 
 Professor Pomeroy,in his work upon Constitutional Law, 
 section 536, says : 
 
 " This restriction is * * * the very keystone which 
 holds together the arch of constitutional powers and limi- 
 tations. Withdraw this, and all others would become 
 mere words, with no force or efficiency. * * * There 
 could be no safety without it, and the security of the 
 whole governmental fabric depends upon its strict and 
 literal observance by all officers and departments of the 
 administration." 
 
 The practice in New Jersey has for many years been 
 contrary to the spirit of this vital principle of the Consti- 
 tution. Acts have been passed involving expenditures of 
 money without making any appropriation therefor, and 
 expenditures have thereafter been made, year after year, 
 without appropriations This has become the rule instead 
 of the exception Even where specific appropriations are 
 made, they are generally for an indefinite period, and still 
 more often for indefinite sums Many of the laws now 
 
xxxii REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 existing, under which moneys are spent, place no limit 
 upon the amount or time of expenditure. 
 
 The cost of government, therefore, instead of being 
 under the supervision of the Legislature, is practically 
 left to the discretion of officers. The Legislature is not 
 informed with any accuracy as to what the expenses of 
 government will be, and,, as they are not asked to make 
 appropriations, few members have any real conception of 
 the financial operations of the government. By these 
 practices the most important function of the Legislature, 
 which is the providing of revenues and the apportionment 
 of moneys for the different purposes of government, is 
 neglected, and no intelligent understanding of the real 
 coudition of the State's affairs is brought home to the 
 representatives of the people. 
 
 We believe that the rapid increase of expenditures, the 
 irregularities and the extravagance which have been de- 
 veloped, are largelj^^ due to the fact that appropriations 
 have been unlimited in amount and in time. The expe- 
 rience of Congress and of the States has been that the 
 proper conserving of the State's finances and protection 
 of the treasury can only be secured by annual appropria- 
 tion bills, and that the apportionment of moneys for differ- 
 ent purposes of government cannot be brought too fre- 
 quently to the notice of the legislators. 
 
 A proposed increase of expenditures would be at once 
 discovered and discussed, both in the halls of legislation 
 and in the public press, and accountability for extrava- 
 gance and for novel expenditures would at once be 
 brought home to those responsible 
 
 We think that nothing that can be suggested would be 
 so likel}' to prevent in future the sort of irregularities 
 recently disclosed as the annual passage of an appropria- 
 tion bill covering every conceivable form of State expense, 
 
REPORT OF COMMITTEE. xxxiii 
 
 and we think it should be provided by law, as it is in 
 many States by Constitution, that no money should be 
 available under any appropriation for more than two years 
 from the time of the passage of the bill. 
 
 We have therefore prepared with great care an appro- 
 priation bill for fiscal year beginning November ist, 1895, 
 covering all the proposed expenditures of the State Fund, 
 and also of the School Fund. We have included in the 
 bill items for all the ordinary expenditures of government 
 required under existing laws. If, however, the bills that 
 we have elsewhere proposed shall be passed, many of 
 these items can be eliminated from the bill and consider- 
 able savings effected. 
 
 The items for salaries have been made to conform to 
 the salaries now prevailing, although in the judgment of 
 the Committee some of these salaries may be reduced 
 without impairing the public service. 
 
 The matter of raising revenues to meet the annual ap- 
 propriations was not within the province of this Commit- 
 tee, but it is a matter that may well receive early consid- 
 eration from the Legislature. 
 
 The revenues from miscellaneous corporations and 
 possibly some other revenues of the State are diminishing, 
 and if this shall continue, other fiscal measures will have 
 to be considered in the near future. 
 
 In the course of our inquiry we have been impressed 
 with the apparent disposition of State officers and others 
 to construe very liberally against the treasury enactments 
 of doubtful meaning. The true principle is that no money 
 should go from the treasury except in pursuance of clear 
 and unequivocal laws This is an additional reason for 
 an annual appropriation bill, making explicit and definite 
 provision for every expenditure. 
 
xxxiv REPORT OF COMMITTEE. 
 
 In concluding this report the Committee desire to ac- 
 knowledge the cheerful and prompt aid rendered by the 
 Comptroller and the Treasurer, the records of whose 
 offices have been under constant examination for the past 
 three months, and particularly to record their appreciation 
 of the intelligent and untiring service rendered by Mr. F. 
 S. McNeely, first assistant in the office of the Comp- 
 troller. 
 
 FOSTER M. VOORHEES, 
 GEORGE W. KETCHAM, 
 WILLIAM H. SKIRM, 
 CHARLES B. HERBERT. 
 
 As a member of the Committee, I agree, in the main, 
 with the conclusions and recommendations of the major- 
 ity. In those respects wherein I dissent I will, at an 
 early day, submit my views 
 
 WM. D. DALY. 
 
RECORD 
 
 OF THE 
 
 PROCEEDINGS 
 
Opening Proceedings. 
 
 Senate Chamber, Trenton, 
 
 March 4th, 1895, 10 A. M. 
 
 Proceedings and testimony had and taken before the Commit- 
 tee of the New Jersey State Senate appointed to investigate 
 alleged extravagances in the purchase of supplies for the State 
 House at Trenton, New Jersey, and other matters, in the presence 
 of the Committee so appointed and its counsel, William H. 
 CoRBiN, Esq. Committee all present excepting Hon. William 
 D. Daly. 
 
 Senator Voorhebs (Chairman of the Committee) — As Chair- 
 man of this Committee I desire to announce that we have 
 organized, and that we have selected the Hon. William H. Cor- 
 bin to act as Counsel for the Committee; Mr, Charles H. Levy 
 to act as Clerk, and Mr. A. B. C. Salmon as Stenographer, and 
 John Graham to act as temporary Sergeant-at-arms. It may be 
 well before we proceed in our investigation that the clerk should 
 read the resolution under which we are acting. 
 
 The clerk read the resolution from the Journal of the Senate 
 of February 13, 1895, as follows : 
 
 "Resolved, That a committee of five members of the Senate be 
 appointed by the President to inquire into the truth of the 
 charges relative to the furnishing of the Senate Chamber and 
 State House, and the extravagance in the furnishing of legisla- 
 tive and other supplies, and also to inquire into the truth of such 
 other charges as may be preferred, which in their judgment are 
 worthy of investigation as to the conduct of public affairs in this 
 State, and in the various counties and municipalities thereof, and 
 into the actions of the various officials having charge of the ad- 
 ministration of the laws of the State. The said Committee to 
 have the power to subpcEna and swear witnesses, to take testi- 
 mony, to send for persons and papers, to employ counsel, clerk 
 and stenographers, and to do such other things as may be neces- 
 sary in their judgment to inform the Senate as to the truth or 
 falsity of said representations or other charges to be made ; the 
 said Committee to have power to sit, if necessary, during the 
 legislative recess, and to make report to the Senate at this or the 
 next session of the Legislature, The resolution was adopted and 
 
4 OPENING PROCEEDINGS. 
 
 the President appointed as the committee Senators Voorhees, 
 Ketcham, Skirm, Herbert and Daly." 
 
 Chairman of Committee — In view of the fact that this Com- 
 mittee is requested by the Senate to make report to the present 
 session of the Senate on a certain branch of the inquiry, our in- 
 vestigation will be directed solely to the charges as to the extrav- 
 ao^ance in connection with the famishing of the Senate Chamber, 
 and also touching charges made against certain of the officials in 
 connection with the management of the State House. May I 
 ask you, Mr. Corbin, as counsel of the Committee, whether you 
 are prepared to proceed with that line of investiffation ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir; I am prepared to proceed. Mr. Chair- 
 man, the scope of the investigation, as indicated by the resolu- 
 tion of the Senate, may be a very wide one or may be quite nar- 
 row, in the discretion of the Committee. Under direction of the 
 Chairman I have thus far, in the few days at my disposal, 
 directed my investigations towards the expenditures in and about 
 the State House, as I understood that it was the desire of the 
 Senate that a report be fpeedily made to the Senate on that 
 branch of the inquiry. I think it is but fair to the Committee 
 and counsel to state that this Committee was not selected by the 
 Senate until the 13th of February, and its counsel and officers 
 were not selected until the night of the 19th of February. There- 
 fore, there have been very few days at our disposal in which to 
 prepare the testimony, but we have some testimony to present 
 to-day. 
 
 I desire at the outset of this investigation to call the attention 
 of the Committee, for the sake of convenience, to the legislation 
 governing the subject of expenditures of State moneys. 
 
 I first read from Article 4 of the Constitution, section 6, para- 
 graph 2, which is in these words : " No money shall be drawn 
 from the Treasury but for appropriations made by law." That is 
 in substance a copy of the similar provision in the Constitution 
 of the United States. 
 
 I desire next to call the attention of the Committee to the fact 
 that there appears to be no legislation on the statute books of 
 New Jersey from the time of the adoption of the Constitution of 
 1844 up to 1889, on the subject of expenditures about the State 
 House, with some trifling exceptions. The supplies tor the State 
 House, and the care of it, seem to have drifted along under a 
 joint resolution which was passed by the Legislature in 1846, 
 which will be found in the Revision, page 1224. It is not an act 
 — it is not a law by which moneys could be drawn irom the 
 Treasury at all ; it is a mere resolution of the two Houses, ap- 
 
OPENING PROCEEDINGS. 5 
 
 proved by the Governor. This is the resolution of April 9th, 
 1846 : 
 
 "Whereas, the State House has been repaired, and large 
 and important additions made thereto, for the accommodation of 
 the State officers and the convenience of those who have busi- 
 ness to transact with tbem, in doing which a large sum of money 
 has been expended ; and whereas, the public grounds adjacent to 
 the State House are to be graded and planted with suitable trees, 
 and it is thus rendered important that the buildings and grounds 
 shall be well cared for and kept in proper condition and repair; 
 therefore, be it 
 
 '■'■Resolved, &c., That the State House and adjacent public 
 grounds be and hereby are put under the care and safe keeping 
 of the Treasurer of the State; that the doorkeepers of the two 
 houses, immediately after the Legislature have adjourned, shall 
 deliver to the said Treasurer all the keys of their respective 
 houses, which shall be safely kept in his office until the next 
 meeting of the Legislature ; that when the courts are not in 
 session the keys of the respective court-roonas shall also be de- 
 posited with him for. safe keeping; and it shall be the duty of 
 the said Treasurer to have the general supervision and care of said 
 buildings and grounds, to preserve them from injury, and. to 
 provide for their being kept in proper order, for which services 
 he shall receive the sum of $75 per year, to be paid out of any 
 moneys in the treasury not otherwise appropriated." 
 
 That seems to be all the law there is un the subject (and, in- 
 deed, that is not a law, but a joint resolution) until a very recent 
 date. 
 
 In 1865 an act was passed creating the office of Comptroller, 
 which will be found in the Revision, page 1216, and the sections 
 to which I desire now to call your attention particularly are 33 
 and 44. 
 
 The 38d section provides that on or before the first day of 
 October in each year the Comptroller shall advertise in news- 
 papers published in Trenton for a supply of fuel for the Legisla- 
 ture on the most advantageous terms that may be offered, which 
 proposals shall be on file. That is a provision, you will observe, 
 by law for one of the items of State House supplies. 
 
 The other provision is for stationery, section 44, which is a 
 provision of the supplement of 1868 — section 44 of the Revision : 
 It shall be the duty of the Comptroller on or before the first day 
 of each December to advertise in the newspapers in Trenton for 
 necessary stationery for the use of the Legislature, the total cost 
 not to exceed $500 per annum. 
 
b OPENING PROCEEDINGS. 
 
 In 1880 a joint resolution was passed by the Legislature, known 
 as Joint Resolutiou No. 2, which will be found in the pamphlet 
 laws ot that year at page 332, authorizing the Governor to con- 
 sult the State officers, and, if in his judgment it is practicable, to 
 alter and change the rooms in the State House so as to furnish 
 the necessary protection from fire; and there is appropriated tor 
 that purpose $2,000. It is a joint resolution, containing a pre- 
 amble reciting that valuable papers are in danger of fire. 
 
 With these slight exceptions, gentlemen of the Committee, I 
 find no legislation on the subject of supplies for the State House 
 or for the care of the State House until the year 1889. As is 
 well known, under this joint resolution of 1846, the State Treas- 
 urer took, possession and care of the State House and of the 
 adjacent grounds, and was the sole custodian of the State's 
 property here from 1846 up to 1889. 
 
 In 1889 the Legislature passed an act, which will be found in 
 the laws of that year at page 295, which places the State House 
 and grounds under a superintendent, to be appointed and com- 
 missioned by the Grovernor, who shall hold his office for three 
 years and have a salary of $2,000 per annum. He shall take 
 care that the occupied parts of the State House are kept warm, 
 ventilated, swept and cleaned, and he shall employ vs many 
 necessary assistants for that purpose, at such prices, as the Gov- 
 ernor, Attorney General and State Treasurer, or a majority of 
 them, shall approve, and he shall render monthly accounts to 
 the State Treasurer. He is also given charge of distributing 
 the laws and public documents. Under that act of 1889 the 
 superintendent of the State House was for the first time ap- 
 pointed. At the end of three years, 1892, the Legislature 
 passed another act, almost exactly similar in terms, repealing the 
 act of 1889 and appointing a like officer, but with this change, 
 the officer was to be appointed by the Governor and confirmed 
 by the Senate, and his term of office was to be five years. He 
 was charged with the same duties as before and required to 
 give bonds in the penalty of $5,000. That is the act of 1892, 
 page 17. 
 
 In 1893 the Legislature repealed this act and passed another 
 one almost in precisely the same words, but providing that the 
 officer should have a term of five years at a salary of $3,000 ; that 
 is substantially the only change, and his monthly accounts should 
 be approved by the Governor, Attorney-General and State 
 Treasurer. 
 
 I desire now to ofFar in evidence the bonds given, and the oaths 
 taken by the officer known as Superintendent of the State House, 
 
OPENING PROCEEDINGS. 7 
 
 and while they are being produced I will call the attention of the 
 Committee to an act passed in 1894 (P. L., f. S£S), which re- 
 pealed the act of 1893, and placed the State House under the 
 control of the Governor, Treasurer and Comptroller, who are to 
 take charge and care of the safe keeping of the Capitol, the prop- 
 erty contained therein, and the grounds, and for this purpose 
 they have power to appoint a custodian who shall hold the ap- 
 pointment during their pleasure, and shall be paid a monthly 
 compensation not exceeding $2,000 per annum. Under their 
 direction and control he has power to preserve from injury the 
 rooms and safe keep them, and the offices and adjacent grounds, 
 keeping the occupied parts properly furnished, cleaned, warmed 
 and ventilated. For the first time it is cast upon the custodian 
 to keep the rooms furnished ; that is not in the former acts ; and 
 he has also power to employ, fix the compensation and discharge 
 all mechanics, laborers, &c., and make all necessary purchases to 
 carry out the provisions of this act ; it is a broader act than any 
 of the others, but these powers are laid upon the Governor and 
 Treasurer and Comptroller to be exercised through their agent, 
 the custodian; all employees to be subject to the custodian ; he 
 has the keys of the Legislature when not in session, distributes 
 the laws and takes an oath. 
 
 While those papers are coming I desire to direct your attention 
 to the fact that this subject of proper control of the State House 
 and expenditures has been a matter of grave question heretofore. 
 In 1872, there being no law to pay these expenditures or appro- 
 priation for them, the matter was laid before Attorney-General 
 Gilchrist, who rendered an opinion which I have here, dated 
 February 13, 1872, and which I will oifer in evidence for the 
 convenience of the Committee, and which is as follows : 
 
 " Attorne'j General's Office, 
 
 " Trenton, February 13th, 1872. 
 " JosEPHus SooY, Esq., 
 
 " State Treasurer. 
 " Dear Sir : 
 
 " I have considered the question you have propounded to me 
 — whether the Treasurer or Comptroller is charged with the duty 
 of purchasing, replacing and repairing necessary furniture for 
 the legislative halls and the State House generally. 
 
 " During my consideration of the subject I communicated to 
 the comptroller the fact that you had asked for my opinion, and 
 received from him all the information he was able to give me. 
 By a joint resolution, approved April 9th, 1846, entitled ' To 
 
8 OPENING PROCEEDINGS. 
 
 provide for the safe keeping of the State buildings and grounds 
 in the City of Trenton,' it is recited that the State Hous3 has 
 been repaired, and large and important additions made thereto 
 for the accommodation of the State officers and the convenience 
 of those who had business to transact with them, and that it is 
 rendered important that the buildings should be well cared for 
 and kept in proper condition and repair ; and then resolved, that 
 the State House and adjacent public grounds be under the care 
 and safe keeping of the Treasurer of the State ; that the door- 
 keepers of the two houses on the adjournment of the Legislature 
 shall deliver to him all the keys of their respective houses, which 
 shall be safely kept in his office until the next meeting of the 
 Legislature; that when the courts are not in session the keys of 
 the respective court rooms shall also be deposited with him for safe 
 keeping ; and that it shall be the duty of the Treasurer to have 
 the general supervision and care of said buildings and grounds, 
 to preserve them from injury, and to provide for their being kept 
 in proper order, and for this duty he is to receive $75 per year. 
 
 "By the 5th section of the act, approved March 17th, 1865, 
 creating the office of Comptroller, he is to take general charge 
 and supervision of all rights, interests and property of the State. 
 
 " By the 13th section of the act he is, after advertising for pro- 
 posals, to contract for the supply of fuel for the Legislature for 
 the next year. 
 
 " By the 15th section he is to report to the Legislature the 
 financial condition of the State and an estimate of expenditures 
 for the succeeding year. 
 
 "By the 17th section so much of any law as conflicts with the 
 act, or confers any powers and duties, which by the act are vested 
 in the Comptroller, on any other officer or officers, is repealed. 
 
 " By act of April 6th, 1865, a room in the State Capitol was 
 directed to be appropriated and furnished for the Comptroller's 
 use, under the direction of the commissioner who had charge of 
 the building of the wing of the State Capitol. 
 
 " By act of March 24th, 1868, section 6, the Comptroller is 
 directed to advertise for proposals for stationery for the Legisla- 
 ture at the next session, and to contract for the same. 
 
 " Since the creation of the office of Comptroller there have 
 been several acts of the Legislature — joint resolutions, concur- 
 rent resolutions, and resolutions of a single House — directing 
 Commissioners of State Library, Comptroller and Treasurer, 
 Comptroller alone, committee of the Houses, or of one House, to 
 procure furniture for the legislative halls, and various rooms and 
 
OPENING PROCEEDINGS. 9 
 
 offices in the State House. No real light is thrown on the ques- 
 tion by these various enactments and resolutions. 
 
 "After a careful consideration of the question propounded, I 
 have come to the conclusion that the duty of providing proper 
 and necessary furniture for the legislative halls, and for the offices 
 in the State House, is devolved upon the Treasurer by the joint 
 resolution of 1846, except in cases where special provision is 
 made to the contrary. 
 
 " By joint resolution of 1846, the State House is put under 
 the care and safe-keeping of the Treasurer, and the officers 
 having charge of the halls and rooms which are occupied by the 
 Legislature and courts while they are in session are, on the 
 adjournment, required to deliver to the Treasurer the keys of 
 their rooms. 
 
 " The Treasurer is to preserve the buildings in which theee 
 halls and rooms are, from injury, and to provide for the build- 
 ings being kept in proper order, and a special compensation is 
 given him for the service. 
 
 " The public buildings of the United States have been fur- 
 nished for more than two generations for the accommodation of 
 the President, Congress and the Courts and Departments, under 
 statutes conferring less authority upon the Commission of Public 
 Buildings, the Clerks of the Houses, the Secretary of the Treas- 
 ury, and the Superintendent of Public Buildings. 
 
 " The practice has been very loose, and it was only in 1869 
 that the Clerks of the Houses were required to act only upon a 
 resolution of a committee in procuring furniture. 
 
 " The general language of the Comptroller's act, giving him 
 the general charge and supervision of all rights, interests and 
 property of the State, and the clause repealing all laws which 
 conflict with the act, or which confer any power or duties given 
 to the Comptroller or any other officer do not control or repeal 
 the very special authority given to the Treasurer to take care of 
 specific buildings, and to provide for their being kept in proper 
 order. 
 
 "The 'proper order' mentioned, it plainly appears by the 
 preamble to the joint resolution of 1846, is such order as to make 
 these buildings fit for the accommodation of State officers and 
 the convenience of those who have business to transact in them. 
 
 " Under no more authority is it that the public buildings of 
 the United States have been furnished. 
 
 " Of course, where the Legislature has specifically conferred 
 upon the Comptroller the power to furnish a room, as in the case 
 
10 OPENING PROCEEDINGS. 
 
 of the flag-room by the joint resolution of 1871, he is bound to 
 execute it, and the Treasurer has no authority. 
 
 " The specific authority given by the Comptroller as to fuel 
 and stationery by the acts of 1865 and 1868 does not conclusively 
 show that the Comptroller had not the power before, because a 
 specific method of making the contracts is pointed out ; but it 
 does not by any means show that the Treasurer had not the power 
 under the joint resolution of 1846. 
 
 " I think he had this power under the joint resolution, but 
 that the power given to the Comptroller as to fuel and stationery 
 subtracted from the Treasurer's authority and duty in relation to 
 making the State buildings tenantable and convenient for the 
 accommodation of the Legislature and courts, and the State 
 officers generally, only to the extent of furnishing fuel and sta- 
 tionery. 
 
 " The question on the mere footing of the language of the joint 
 resolution of 1846, and of the acts of 1865, and of subsequent 
 acts, is quite obscure, and there is no wonder that it has so long 
 remained open. 
 
 " The phraseology of the joint resolution and laws is so vague 
 that without the light shed upon it by the practice of the United 
 States Government under like language, I should have been in- 
 clined to say that neither Comptroller or Treasurer had any author- 
 ity to purchase furniture, but the necessity of providing furniture 
 in a case like that which has just occurred, where without the 
 exercise of the power the Legislature would have had to meet in 
 a hall without furniture, shows that the authority ought to exist 
 somewhere before the Legislature convenes, and the precedents 
 furnished by the practice under the national government of the 
 exercise of the power under language not so strong as that which 
 is used in the joint resolution of 1846, makes it plain that the 
 authority in this State resides with the Treasurer. The Legisla- 
 ture ought to regulate the subject by general statue. 
 " Yours very truly, 
 
 "ROBERT GILCHRIST," 
 
 " Attorney- General." 
 
 (Said opinion is marked " Exhibit 'No. 1.") 
 
 This opinion, to some extent, shows the state of affairs which I 
 have stated to you, that there was no law appropriating any 
 money for the care of the State House, only this joint resolution 
 authorizing the Treasurer to take care of the property. And 
 the Attorney- General, in brief, finds that a similar state of aflairs 
 has existed in Washington tor lack of appropriate law, and the 
 
OPENING PROCEEDINGS. 11 
 
 upshot of the opinion is that, inasmuch as the Federal officers 
 have made similar expenditures without appropriation, we may be 
 excused for having done it. He doesn't say it is lawful, but says 
 the duty that is charged upon the Treasurer to take care of the 
 property here, probably under the circumstances, must be held 
 to excuse him for making expenditures of State money without 
 law. The Treasurer continued to act under that; but in 1880, 
 when Major Anderson became Comptroller, the same question 
 occurred to him as to his power to audit bills, and he then ad- 
 dressed a letter to Mr. Wright, the State Treasurer, dated April 
 30th, 1880, calling his attention to the matter. The letter closes 
 in this way : " I take this early opportunity of suggesting to you 
 the advisability of assuring yourself of the extent of the authority 
 conferred upon you by the above cited resolution, or any other 
 legislative acts which may bear on the subject, in order that 
 any questions which might otherwise arise concerning expenses 
 of this character, may be anticipated and avoided." 
 
 Mr. Wright, the State Treasurer, submitted that to Attorney- 
 General Stockton, who rendered to him a brief opinion on May 
 13th, 1880. He comes to the same conclusion that Attorney- 
 General Gilchrist did. These are expenses that have got to be 
 paid, although it is true there is no statute on record ; the duty 
 to take care of the buildings must infer the right to make the 
 expenditures; that is about the tone of Mr. Gilchrist's opinion, 
 and Mr. Stockton cites and follows it. These opinions, neither 
 of them, have the tone of very much confidence, because it was 
 quite obvious that there is no law on the subject, simply this 
 joint resolution. This opinion is offered in evidence, marked 
 " Exhibit 2," and is as follows : 
 
 "State of New Jeeset, 
 " Office of Attorney-General. 
 
 "Trenton, May 13, 1880. 
 " Hon. Geo. M. Wright, 
 
 Slate Treasurer. 
 " My Dear Sir : 
 
 " I have examined the letter under date of April 30th, written 
 to you by Mr. E. J. Anderson, Comptroller, also the opinion ot 
 the late Attorney-General Gilchrist of February 3d, 1872. 
 
 " I have no doubt that under the resolution approved April 9th, 
 1846, placing the State House and adjacent public grounds under 
 the care of the State Treasurer, the Treasurer is authorized to 
 employ such persons and incur such expenses as in his discretion 
 may seem to he necessary. By section 4 of the act of March 
 17th, 18(J5 {Rev. 1217, P. L. 24), it is made the duty of the 
 
12 OPENING PROCEEDINGS. 
 
 Comptroller to examine, audit, adjust and settle all accounts due 
 to or presented against the State. I do not think the Comp- 
 troller has any more control over the accounts approved by the 
 Treasurer than those approved by any other officer charged 
 under the law with duties carrying with them the power to incur 
 obligations on the part of the State, but it seems to me that the 
 object of the Comptroller's act was to create a check upon the 
 exercise of this discretion whenever the responsibility waa not 
 wholly placed by law in the person on whom the duty was im- 
 posed, as where the Comptroller is directed to issue his warrant 
 on the order of the judge, or where he is directed to pay money 
 on the order of the Governor. 
 
 "I think the Comptroller is the judge of whether an account 
 should be properly allowed and settled, and if in his judgment 
 the allowance and settlement of it involves the propriety of an 
 act such as the employment of servants and workmen and the 
 price of their labor, he is bound in duty to exercise that judg- 
 ment before he settles or allows the account. 
 
 "The practical result of my considerttion cf the letter and 
 the opinion of Mr. Gilchrist is that while you have the power 
 generally, as stated in the opinion, that the Comptroller in the 
 exercise of his duty has the undoubted right to refuse to audit 
 any bill for personal services or otherwise, presented by any one 
 or approved by any one except those above indicated as excep- 
 tions to the rule. 
 
 " It would seem to have been the intention of the Legislature, 
 by joint resolution No. 2 of 1880, to modify the control of the 
 State House to some extent. It provides among other things 
 that 'the Governor of the State is to assign and cause to be suit- 
 ably fitted up such rooms for the accommodation of the public 
 officers of this State, as he may deem necessary to facilitate the 
 public business.' Under this provision it is manifest that the 
 Governor should approve of expenses incurred by his direction. 
 
 " Considering that the subject of all the legislation is the 
 proper and economical care of all the property of the State and 
 affording facilities for the public business, I should advise that 
 the proper course would be to have a con3ultation between the 
 three officers charged with separate official duties connected with 
 the matter, viz., the Governor, Comptroller and Treasurer. 
 
 "lam, 
 
 "Very truly yours, 
 (Signed), " JNO. P. STOCKTON." 
 
ALEXANDER H. RICKEY. 13 
 
 Alexander H. Rickey, sworn. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are the Assistant Secretary of State? J.. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Have you here the bonds filed by Mr. Bernard J. Ford as 
 Superintendent of the State House ? A. Three bonds and three 
 oathe. 
 
 Q. These are part of the files of tbe office of Secretary of State ? 
 A. Part of the files ; yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence a bond in the penal 
 sum of $5,000, given by Bernard J. Ford as Superin- 
 tendent of the State House, with James Smith and 
 Lewis C. Grover, of Newark, as sureties, dated May 
 22d, 1889, with the affidavits of justification by James 
 Smith and Lewis C. Grover ; also the oath of the Super- 
 intendent taken before Thomas S. Henry, Judge ; both 
 filed May 22d, 1892. 
 
 Also, the bond of tbe same Superintendent, in the 
 same sum, with James Smith and Lewis C. Grover as 
 sureties, dated February 19th, 1892, approved by Judge 
 Henry, and filed February 17th, 1892. Also, the oath 
 of the Superintendent filed the same day. 
 
 Also, the bond by the same Superintendent, with 
 James Smith and Lewis C. Grover, as sureties, in the 
 same sum, dated February 23d, 1893, approved by 
 Judge Henry, and filed February 23d, 1893 ; and also 
 the Superintendent's oath, filed the same day. 
 
 The three bonds referred to are marked " Exhibits 3, 
 4 and 5," and the oaths " Exhibits 6, 7 and 8." 
 
 I have asked the Comptroller to make up a table 
 which I desire to present to the Committee, showing 
 the State House expenses for the past twenty years; 
 also showing the amount expended for clerical services 
 during the last seventeen years — that account runs back 
 only seventeen years on the books in a way to make it 
 available for comparison ; they do not by any means 
 represent all the money expended in and about the 
 State House, but they represent the funds charged to 
 those two accounts in the Treasurer's and Comptroller's 
 looks. This is the statement certified to by the Comp- 
 troller — the State House expenses from 1875 to 1894, 
 inclusive. In each case they are for the year ending 
 October 31st, as our fiscal year ends on that day. 
 
 In reading this, if you please, I will reject the fractions. 
 
14 STATE HOUSE EXPENSES. 
 
 STATE HOUSE EXPENSES FOR THE FISCAL YEARS 
 ENDING OCTOBER 31. 
 
 1875 $22,850 
 
 1876 27,000 
 
 1877 16,000 
 
 1878 15,000 
 
 1879 16,000 
 
 1880 14,000 
 
 1881 16,000 
 
 1882 23,000 
 
 1888 19,000 
 
 1884 25,000 
 
 1885 23,000 
 
 1886 20,000 
 
 1887 20,000 
 
 1888 19,000 
 
 1889 25,000 
 
 1890 44,000 
 
 1891 46,000 
 
 1892 57,000 
 
 1898 58,000 
 
 1894 71,000 
 
 A very large part, I may say, of the $71,000 was 
 spent before the change was made by the Legislature of 
 1894 — before the changes occurred in the State House — 
 supplies of coal and other things. 
 
 ' Stating briefly for convenience of memory, from 1875 
 to 1888 the expenses were remarkably uniform, and 
 may be said to average not more than $20,000 a year. 
 Since that time they have very rapidly increased, until 
 they are now, by this last statement, s70,000. 
 
 EXPENDITURES FOB CLERICAL SERVICES AND 
 CHARGED TO THAT ACCOUNT. 
 
 1878 §10,000 
 
 1879 12,000 
 
 1880 12,000 
 
 1881 19,000 
 
 1882 22,000 
 
 1883 21,000 
 
 1884,.'. 23,000 
 
STATE HOUSE EXPENSES. 15 
 
 1885 $25,000 
 
 1886 26,000 
 
 1887 26,000 
 
 1888 20,000 
 
 1889 21.000 
 
 1890 21,000 
 
 1891 26,000 
 
 1892 35,000 
 
 1893 36,000 
 
 189-t 37,000 
 
 Showing that ia the first decade there was a gradual 
 increase with an average of, perhaps, $18,000 or $20,000. 
 The last four or five years a more rapid increase, 
 culminating with $37,000. 
 
 I ofter this statement in evidence — it is certified to by 
 the Comptroller. 
 
 (Paper marked " Exhibit 9.") 
 
 Before taking testimony before the Committee I 
 desire to say that an inspection, which has not yet been 
 very thorough, that of the Treasurer's accounts and 
 Comptroller's statements show figures in regard to the 
 purchases on behalf of the State that are, to say the 
 least of it, on the face of them, rather surprising ; some 
 of them I might say are startling. In several directions 
 they seem to indicate a degree either of extravagance or 
 wastefulness which calls for explanation ; it is possible 
 everything may be explained. Without further com- 
 ment, I have taken up such items as I have had oppor- 
 tunity to examine, and shall produce some evidence 
 before you at once as to the items which I have been 
 over thus far, which will perhaps explain some of the 
 extravagance, and, in other cases, may indicate some- 
 thing even more serious than mere wastefulness. 
 
 I will first take up the matter of an expenditure made 
 under an act passed in 1894, page 51. That act provides 
 that there shall speedily be erected upon the dome of 
 the State House, a flag-stafi, with a flag commensurate 
 in size for the uses contemplated, which shall be pur- 
 chased. The duty of doing this is charged upon no 
 particular officer. The Legislature a tew days larer, on 
 April 28d, passed a concurrent resolution reciting that 
 the dome of the Capitol was not an available place for 
 this flag, and allowing the flag to be placed at any other 
 
16 STATE HOUSE EXPENSES. 
 
 place on the State House where the Superintendent of 
 the State House should consider the proper place to be. 
 
 I desire to offer in evidence first a voucher from the 
 Comptroller's office in regard to this flag-staff. (Marked 
 " Exhibit 10.") This voucher first has a certified copy 
 of the act, secondly a copy of the concurrent resolution 
 of the Legislature ; it then has some written specifica- 
 tions as to how the pole shall be erected. 
 
 I beg to call the attention of the Committee to the 
 fact that the concurrent resolution was not passed until 
 the twenty-third of April, which provided for placing 
 the flag where it now is. Following the specification is 
 this bid : " Trenton, April 20, 18^4. Mr. B. J. Ford, 
 Superintendent State House. I will furnish flag and 
 pole, and set the pole in position, and do all other work 
 that is connected with it, according to plans and speci- 
 fications, for the sum of $1,350. (Signed), John 
 Barlow." " The above bid being the lowest received, is 
 hereby approved, pursuant to the act entitled 'An act to 
 provide for the erection of flag-staff upon the State 
 House, N. J., and for the purchase of a suitable flag for 
 the same, and regulating the use of the same,' approved 
 April 4th, 1894, and concurrent resolution, approved 
 April 23d, 1894. (Signed), George T. Werte, 
 Governor." 
 
 Following is a bill of "John Barlow to the State of New 
 Jersey for the furnishing of a flag and the erection of a 
 flag-staff on the roof of the front part of the State Capi- 
 tol, according to plans and specifications, $1,850. Cor- 
 rect. B. J. Ford, Superintendent. Approved. George 
 T. Werts, Governor." 
 
 (Said bill is marked "Exhibit 11.") 
 
 I offer in evidence warrant drawn by the Comptroller 
 for $1,350 in favor of John Barlow, dated May 8th, 1894, 
 and Mr. Barlow's receipt for the same ; also Treasurer's 
 check upon the Mechanics National Bank of Trenton, 
 bearing the same date, for $1,350. Endorsed by John 
 Barlow. 
 
 (Said paptTs marked "Exhibits 12, 13 and 14.") 
 
JOHN BARLOW. 17 
 
 John Barlow, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Trenton. 
 
 Q. How came you to bid for putting up a flag-stafl on the 
 State House ? A. The first I knew anything about it I got it 
 through Mr. Swan. 
 
 Q. "Well, what did you find out from him 1 A. I found out 
 by him that there was a flag pole going to be raised on the State 
 House ; he asked me to go and see Ford to see how he was going 
 to give out the job; I saw Mr., Ford and asked him, and he said 
 he was going to get bids ; I asked him if he would allow me to 
 bid on it, and he said, " Certainly ; I want to get all the bids I 
 can on it." 
 
 Q. Did you bid ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who did you givo the bid to ? A. Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. Who was present when you gave him the bid ? A. I give 
 it out in the hall. 
 
 Q. Handed it to him in the hall? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Any one else present 7 A. I don't recollect as there was ; 
 there was lots of people around in the hall, but nobody that I 
 knew. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether anybody else made bids? A, I 
 heard he had three or four bids ; I don't know. 
 
 Q. Who did you hear bid 'i A. 1 heard Lanning had a bid in. 
 
 Q. You don't know that? A. No. 
 
 Q. How long before the contract was awarded to you was it 
 that you put in your bid ? A. 1 put in my bid and he took the 
 bids, then he went into his office, and from his office he went 
 across into the Governor's room; I should judge about au hour 
 after I gave him the bid — 
 
 Q. You didn't see the Governor about it ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at this specification ; is that in your handwriting ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the bid which follows it, signed " John Barlow ; " 
 is that in your handwriting ? A. No, sir ; it is my signature ; 
 Mr. Gofl, my bookkeeper, wrote that. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Goff write the specification, also ? A. He does all 
 my business. 
 
 Q. When you handed in that bid, did it have any specification 
 to it ? A. No, I didn't have any specification to it. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Ford give you any specification to go by ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; I had heard of the specification, and a plan of the 
 front part of the State House as it is now was taken, and two 
 lines were drawn — 
 
 2SH 
 
18 JOHN BAKLOW, 
 
 Q. The specification was drawn up by Swan ? A. Yea, sir. 
 
 Q. This is a copy of it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Who made this copy ? A. Mr. GoflE made if. 
 
 Q. This was put on afterwards ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When you handed in your bid, there was no specification 
 there ? ^4. I do not recollect the specification being handed — 
 my bid was written by Goff, but the specification was not. 
 
 Q. You do not know, then, who annexed this specification to 
 it ? ^. I do not. 
 
 Q. Do you know that handwriting ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What specification did you have to bid by ? A. The one 
 that Swan had. 
 
 Q. He had a pencil specification, didn't he? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you talk it over with Swan before you bid ? A. No, 
 sir; I never said anything to Swan after IjCome up to the State 
 House and saw Ford. 
 
 Q. Swan brought the subject to your attention first ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Swan afterwards put the flag-pole up for you, didn't he ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you talk it over with Swan as to what was to be bid? 
 A. I made a proposition to Swan after I got the job. 
 
 Q. But it was Swan who brought it to you first? A. He told 
 me that a fiag-pole was going to be put up. 
 
 Q. Did Swan give you an estimate of what it was going to 
 cost? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you agree with Swan as to what you were to bid? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you agree with him to bid $700 for it ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't he go out from Ford's office and tell you he would 
 have to bid less? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You couldn't get more than |525 ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't know anything about any other bids? A. No, 
 sir; I don't know anything about them to-day. 
 
 Q. Who was there at the time Ford went to the Governor's 
 office and had this thing settled? A. I can't tell you; I met 
 him at the hall; right in the center of the hall; I don't know 
 who was there. 
 
 Q. But you heard there was some other bids put in? A. I 
 heard there was ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was Weller there? ^. No; I didn't see Weller. 
 Q. Was Major Hurley there? A. No, sir. 
 (J. Have you books here showing where you purchased 
 materials for putting up the flag-staff? A. Yes, sir; I have got 
 books and checks and bank books, and all you want. 
 
JOHN BARLOW. 19 
 
 Q. Of whom did you buy the pole? A. I have got a check 
 here — ofi of a gentleman in Camden. 
 
 Q. Can't you answer that questioa ? Of whom did you buy 
 the pole? A. Sheriff Baird; he has just been appointed on the 
 tax board. 
 
 Q. Have you his bill here? A. Yes, sir; and check. 
 
 Q. Let us see the bill? A. It is in the bundle there. 
 
 Q. This bill, $133, David Baird, is for materials used on this 
 flag-stafi? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They were all used there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q: That is the check for |133 which paid Baird for the flag- 
 staff and materials? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And this check to J. H. Wilson for $70 paid for the flag ? 
 A. Yes ; I would have brought that bill with me, but it is lost; 
 but if you wish to have the bill I will write for it. 
 
 Q. "What is the statement you have made up here? A. This 
 is the time that was made on the pole, the men were paid. 
 
 Q. 173.15 was Swan's bill? A. That is the first week. 
 
 Q. $34.80 the second ? ^. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And $1.50? A. That was for carting; there is the money 
 in the bottom that Swan drawed. 
 
 Q. $10.50? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. These represent all the items, do they? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 <j>. What are these other checks that you have produced here ? 
 A. These are connected with the flag-pole, and these are private 
 checks. 
 
 Q. Henry Woods' Sons, $1.07 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And Banning $24 ? A. "Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Weller^& Sons, $85 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was for riggers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you a statement of the whole thing? A. ISTo, I 
 haven't got it flgured up. It is figured up to $515. Here is my 
 private checks. 
 
 Q. Those are some that you haven't mentioned ? A. Better 
 fio-ure these bills up, because I understand they say the pole cost 
 $350. 
 
 Q, Trenton Hardware Company, $2.28. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Charles W. Karl, $83.13? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Samuel Heath, $45.08 ? A. That is for lumber. 
 
 Q. Did that go into the same job? A. Yes, sir; Mr. Swan 
 ordered all this stuff; I didn't order any of it. 
 
 Q. He had charge of the work, did he not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What do you say it all figures up to ? A. I think $515. 
 
 Q. The profit then was $885 ? A. $835. 
 
20 EDWARD F. VAN STAVORN. 
 
 Q. What did yoa do with that? A. I spent it. 
 
 Q. Did you give any of it to anybody else ? A. N"o, sir ; I 
 got that to do yet tor the first time. 
 
 (^. "What is this book you have here? A. This is a check 
 book that I brought for you to look at, from the first of April to 
 the first of August ; do you wish to see them ? 
 
 Q. No, I think not. A. You had better look at them. 
 
 Q. Do they have any reference to this subject ? A. Because 
 there might have been a check given — I brought them by orders 
 from you. 
 
 Q. Are there any of these that refer to it ? A. 'No, from the 
 first of April to the first of August. 
 
 Q. You have them all here, have yon ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you gone over them carefully to see if any of them 
 refer to this flag-staff matter ? Yes, sir ; I went all over them 
 Saturday. 
 
 Q. And none of them do ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. There was a suit over this matter, with Swan? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And he recovered a judgment against you in the Mercer 
 Circuit Court? A. No, I beat him. 
 
 Q. Didn't he recover judgment against you? A. He did not. 
 
 Q. Aren't you mistaken abcut that ? A. No, I have got it 
 right here. 
 
 Q. Well, your costs were more than his judgment; is that the 
 point of it ? A. (No answer.) 
 
 Q. The judgment against you was less than your judgment ot 
 costs against him, was that it? A. He wanted more than I 
 wanted to give him. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Now, you can answer that ques- 
 tion ? A. I answered the question; as he sued me for more 
 money than I bargained to give him. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Now the question is, did you 
 recover a judgment, or did Mr. Swan ? ^. I recovered a judg- 
 ment myself. 
 
 Q. Is it not true that he got a verdict for a small amount 
 against you? A. He did not get a verdict at all. 
 
 Q. Didn't he ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Edward F. Van Stavorn, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Philadelphia. 
 
 Q. Are you in the employ of David Baird ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
ABRAM SWAN. 21 
 
 Q, Have you a book here showing this sale to John Barlow of 
 materials for the flag-staff of the State House ? A. Yts, sir. 
 
 Q. Tarn to the account. Examine the bill which Mr. Barlow 
 testified was the bill. A. Yes, sir ; that is the original bill. 
 
 Q. Is the account paid ? A. The account is paid ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you made out a memorandum of that account? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Just hand it to the Clerk. 
 
 Abram Swan, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Architect and builder. 
 
 Q. Were you in the employ of the State at the State House — 
 have you been in the employ of the State? A. Yes sir. 
 
 Q. During what period? A. Oh, direct and indirect about 25 
 years. 
 
 Q. At the time this act was passed for the erection of a staff 
 upon the State House, what connection did you have with the- 
 matter; just tell the story as you know it? A. I accidentally 
 understood through Mr. Hamilton, the State Librarian, that 
 there was to be a fiig-staff put on the front portion of the State 
 House, and I had, being the former superintendent of the new 
 building on the front — he asked my judgment where it would be 
 best to put it, and I told him on the front gable; he told me that 
 they were arranging to put one back of the chimney on the back 
 part, and he found considerable fault about them making leaky 
 places into his library, and I got him to take me in to the chair- 
 man who had the matter in charge, Mr. Burton, Chairman of 
 the Committee. I inquired of Mr. Burton about it, and he told 
 me that he had placed the whole thing in Mr. Ford's hands, that 
 he had nothing more to do with it. 
 
 Q. Was that after the law had been passed? A. I don't know 
 anything about the law. 
 
 Q. What did you do, did you get up a specification ? A. 1 then 
 went and seen Mr. Barlow — yes, sir; that is my specification. 
 
 Q. Proceed. A. And told him that there was a flag pole to be 
 raised on the State House, and I was satisfied that we could come 
 pretty close to getting the job, and I wanted him to go and see 
 about getting it — putting in an estimate on it, and he did. 
 
 Q. Did you get the specifications for it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you a pencil specification ; is that the specification 
 you drew ? A. That is mine; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you a voucher from the Comptroller's office contain- 
 
22 ABRAM SWAN. 
 
 ing a copy of this specification, which you will find by verifica- 
 tion to be a true one; whose handwriting is that in? A. 1 don't 
 know, sir; Mr. Goif copied this ofi:. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the specification which you drew, did 
 you show it to Mr. Barlow 1 A. I gave it to Mr. Barlow. 
 
 Q. Did you figure on the cost of it for him? A. On the cost 
 of the erection of the pole ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To be put up where, on the dome or front of the State 
 House? A. The front portion of the State House; the front 
 gable, according to this specification. 
 
 Q. Did you see his bid ? A. 'No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have a conference with him as to what you should 
 bid ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have any understanding as to the share you were 
 to have in it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you agree to bid? A. We first agreed to bid — 
 I made an estimate, and I told him the construction cf the pole 
 would cost about §320, and I said — I explained about taking out 
 the coat of arms which I wanted kept a secret, because I didn't 
 want other bidders to know my way of putting the pole up. 
 
 Q. You thought you had information which would enable you 
 to do it cheaper? A. Yes, sir. I built the building. Then I 
 says, |600 would be a fair price for this ; I says, our estimate will 
 be |600, and that was agreed on. 
 
 Q. Who was to put in the bid, you or he ? A. He was to put 
 in the bid. 
 
 Q. You were to do the work? A. Yes, sir; and all the 
 expenses were to be paid and the profits divided. 
 
 Q. Profits divided between you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you go near Ford ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who did go to him? A. Barlow done that. 
 
 Q. After seeing Ford did he come back to you ? A. Yes, sir; 
 he — well, he came back next day, we met here in the hall and I 
 asked him how he was making out, and he told me we would 
 have to change the bid ; be says, we have got to use a bid from 
 Ford's office for the flag and pole, and I asked him what it was, 
 and he said it would be |100 for the pole and $105 for the flag, 
 which increased the bid and just added one more hundred 
 dollars. 
 
 Q. You agreed to put it in at §700 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he go to Ford again? .1. Who? 
 
 Q. Barlow. ^1. Yes, sir; then the matter laid for three or 
 
 four days, and there was something in regard to the delay I 
 
 don't know what it was. 
 
ABEAM SWAN. 23 
 
 Q. Then what happened next? A. On the day the bids were 
 to go in Mr. Barlow came to me, and he say's, "Abe," he says, " I 
 understand the Governor is kicking about that bid of ours, and," 
 he says, "Ford tells me we can get the job, but," he says, " we 
 will have to take it for $520;" and the pole was constructed 
 with the understanding that it was to cost |520. 
 
 Q. What did you say to that? A. I told him, " Go take it ; 
 there is money in it at that;" there would have been about |100. 
 
 Q. Did he go back to Ford ? A. Yes, sir ? 
 
 Q. What was the next thing you heard about it ? ^. In about 
 ten minutes he came out and went into the side room, the jani- 
 tor's room, I supposed to write the bid; Mr. Lanning and Mr. 
 Weller was in Ford's office at the time, and they went over into 
 the Governor's room, and they all three came out with papers 
 and went into Ford's. 
 
 Q. When he came out that time did he announce anything 
 about the bid ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. When did he tell you he had got the contract? A. About 
 ten minutes afterwards he says, "Abe, you can go on with the 
 job," he says, " I've got it." 
 
 Q. Where were Lanning and Weller then? A. They came 
 out and walked around and congratulating, one thing and an- 
 other, about getting the job. 
 
 Q. Did you suppose then that the bid had been awarded at 
 |520 ? A. Yes ; that was the true bid. 
 
 Q. Did you go on with the job? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you keep this memorandum of the labor? A. I 
 ordered all the material, and kept all the accounts and turned 
 them over to Mr. Barlow. 
 
 Q. Settle up, did you, for services? A. There was no stipu- 
 lated price. 
 
 Q. What did you charge him "i A. 1 charged him $6 a day 
 for eleven days. 
 
 Q. And some of these bills that have been shown here you 
 ordered the goods for t A. 1 ordered all the goods except the 
 pole and flag. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Barlow have anything to do, personally, with the 
 pole at all 1 A. 1 don't know as he did. 
 
 Q. Who ordered the goods from Baird ? J.. I don't know. 
 
 Q. You didn't? A. ^o, sir; I didn't. 
 
 Q. But as to the things up in Trenton, you took charge of all 
 that? A. Everything. 
 
 Q. What did you next hear about it after the work was done ? 
 A. On the day the flag was accepted by the committee of the 
 
24 ABRAM SWAN. 
 
 Legislature there was quite a little turn out, and I was sent for 
 to furl the flag ; I understood the flag, and I arranged the flag 
 and fixed it so as to give it the proper furling ; and after getting 
 through late in the afternoon, I walked down irr the Governor's 
 room, where I generally go to get a drink of water and wash my 
 hands there, and Eddy Fox, who is a clerk in the office, com- 
 menced to congratulate me about what fine success I had in 
 raising the pole, and also the handsome sum I made on it ; I told 
 him that I didn't make anything, that I had to work almost 
 night and day to get out on it — ^well, I did work on the plans 
 nights, because it was a little difficult to get it up there — and he 
 kind of smiled, and I seen something was up, and I asked him if 
 he knowed anything different, and he said, no, he didn't, and I 
 asked him, then, if he wouldn't find out, and he told me he 
 would, and I come up the next morning, which was Friday, and 
 I seen him and asked him if be had found out yet, and he said he 
 hadn't ; well, says I, " you needn't go any farther," says I, " I will 
 go into the Comptroller's office and find out for myself;" I went 
 into the Comptroller's office and inquired of Mr. Cogill if there 
 had been a bill sent in yet for the erection of the pole ; Mr. Cogill 
 told me there had, and the check paid; I asked him the amount, 
 and he told me $1,850. 
 
 Q. Was that the first that you had heard of the $1,350 in 
 connection with it ? A. Yes, sir ; that was the first I heard of 
 the $1,350. 
 
 Q. You had some difficulty in settling with Mr. Barlow, did 
 you not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. You sued him in the Mercer Circuit Court ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And this is a formal record of the judgment ; they assessed 
 the damages to the plaintiff against the defendant at $39.50, with 
 costs of suit to be taxed ; so Mr. Barlow is evidently in error; 
 $39 was recovered as well as costs? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You had been paid part of your services for labor? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did this story come out before the Mercer Circuit Court, 
 or a part of it, that has been told here to-day ; you were both 
 witnesses there at that time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you testify then as you have testified now? A. I 
 didn't testify to the $520 ; my lawyer wouldn't permit me. 
 
 Q. Who presided at that trial? A. Judge Abbett. 
 
 Q. Did Governor Abbett make any comment on this testi- 
 mony? A. Yes, sir; that he would bring the matter before the 
 Grand Jury. 
 
ABRAM SWAN, 25 
 
 Q. Did he say anything about it ; did he make any remarks 
 there about " swag?" A. I don't recollect. ^ 
 
 §. Didn't you hear him say that a court of justice was no 
 place to divide swag ? A. Yes, sir; that was his charge. 
 
 Q. He said that to the jury, did he ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Record of the judgment in the Mercer Circuit Court, 
 in the case of Swan vs. Barlow, is offered in evidence 
 and marked " Exhibit 12." 
 
 Q_. Then this $515 w;hich Mr. Barlow says the entire work cost 
 includes all your services in the matter at $6 a day for the time 
 you spent ; you heard Mr. Barlow's testimony that the work cost 
 $515. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your bill includes $6 a day for all the time you spent 
 there; your bill rendered to him included that? A. Yes; I 
 sent Mr. Barlow — that is, I started when I found out the price ; 
 I became a little angry to think I was fooled in the manner in 
 which I was, and I started down to the cigar store which he 
 stops at, and he wasn't there; I understood that he had gone to 
 Camden. I made out a bill as near as my books would tally up 
 and took the basis at $600 for the bid, and presented him a bill 
 for that. 
 
 Q. Your bill to him was presented on the basis of $600? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But the verdict you recovered was only on the basis of 
 day's labor 1 A. \ don't know at what basis it was. 
 
 Q. You don't know what basis the jury made it up on ? A. 
 No, sir, I do not; it was a queer trial. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether anybody else put in bids for this 
 work ? A. No, I do not ; I seen no bids. 
 
 Q. Do you say Mr. Lanning and Mr. Weller were present 
 with Mr. Barlow at the time the matter was under consideration 
 in Mr. Ford's office ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Who went into the Governor's office about it? A. Mr. 
 Weller and Mr. Lanning ; that is, in his unoccupied office ; it is 
 the first office, not the old main office. 
 
 §. You spoke of Mr. Ford; I understood you to say Mr. 
 Ford went to the Governor about it? A. No, sir; I know 
 nothing about that; I didn't say that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to present next some evidence 
 to the Committee in regard to supplies furnished at the 
 State House annually for the use of the Legislature, 
 and to show the custom that has prevailed at the State 
 House in regard to that matter for some years. 
 
26 JOHN EIKER. 
 
 John Riker, sworn. 
 '^ Examiued by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. What is your present employment? A. I am a mesaenger 
 in the Treasurer's office. 
 
 Q. How long have you been employed at the State House? 
 A. Since September 1st, 1886. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with the methods pursued in furnishing 
 supplies for the Legislature? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What has been the custom in years past' A. Why, when 
 the time arrived I vrould go in the Comptroller's office and get 
 a bill, and take a list of supplies that was furnished the year 
 before and make out another list. 
 
 Q. That was for the Treasurer? A. Yes, sir; that was for the 
 Treasurer. 
 
 Q. Prior to the Superintendent's time? A. Yes, sir; that 
 was done that one year, that was all. 
 
 Q. And from that the bill of goods was ordered for the use of 
 the Legislature ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that is for the beginning of the Legislative session ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is ordered by the Legislature goes into the Incidental 
 bill? A. Yes, sir; the Legislature orders their own. 
 
 Q. This is the preliminary supplies? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Such as what kind of goods? A. Hair brushes, soap,- 
 chamois skins, feather dusters, combination hat and coat brushes, 
 and what is left over we use around the building. 
 
 Q. That custom of buying a bill of goods before the session 
 prevailed before the Superintendent came here, as well as since? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The Treasurer formerly did it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The Superintendent after ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And now the Custodian? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to present a certified statement 
 from the Comptroller in regard to this same matter of 
 preliminary Legislative supplies. I hand you herewith 
 the list statement, showing cost of furnishing Legisla- 
 ture tumblers, brushes, spittoons, &c., from 1884 to 
 1895, inclusive: 
 
 1884 $363 
 
 1885 424 
 
 1886 38-2 
 
 18^7 527 
 
 1888 .., 674 
 
WILLIAM PRICE. 27 
 
 1889 $417 
 
 1890.. 1,113 
 
 1891 975 
 
 1892 1,169 
 
 1893 1,104 
 
 1891 1,312 
 
 1895 891 
 
 (Paper oflered in evidence and marked " Exhibit No. 
 13.") 
 
 I desire to ofler in evidence the bills for these supplies ; 
 first, the bill of Samuel Dickinson, of December 20th, 
 1889; these bills are for part of the supplies of that 
 year; there is one large bill and other small ones; there 
 is a bill of $872 for Mr. Dickinson ; bill of Alexander I. 
 Keilly, December 22d, 1890, for $748.40; bill of Mr. 
 Reilly, January 14th, 1892, $1,054.83; bill of Mr. 
 Reilly, December 10th, 1892, $823; bill of Mr. Reilly, 
 January 14th, 1894, $1,186.18. 
 
 (Said bills offered in evidence and marked " Exhibits 
 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18.") 
 
 I also offer the warrant to Samuel Dickinson for 
 $872.10, dated February 18th, 1890, together with State's 
 check paying the same ; also the warrant to Alex. I. 
 Reilly, January 28th, 1891, for $748.40, and the check 
 by which the same was paid ; also warrant dated January 
 26th, 1892, to Reilly, for $1,054.83, with check by which 
 the same was paid ; also warrant dated December 13th, 
 J 892, to Reilly, for $823, and the check by which the 
 same was paid ; and also warrant to Reilly, dated January 
 15th, 1894, for $1,186.18, and the check by which the 
 same was paid — and the same are marked " Exhibits 
 Nos. 19, 20, 21, 22 and 28." 
 
 William Pkice, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. Where do you live ? A. Brooklyn, New York. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Bookkeeper. 
 
 Q. For whom ? A. Bradley & Smith. 
 
 Q. Plave you examined their books, and have you statements 
 to show goods bought of Bradley & Smith by Mr. B. J. Ford, or 
 for the State House at Trenton ? A. I have a memorandum of 
 the amounts ; just a pencil sketch I took off". 
 
28 WILLIAM PRICE. 
 
 Q. Please look at this bill, this duplicate invoice dated January 
 6th, 1891, for a bill of goods to B. J. Ford, Trenton, K J. To 
 whom were those goods shipped, and where? A. They were 
 shipped by the New Jersey Railroad, addressed to B. J. Ford, 
 Trenton, N. J, 
 
 Q. (Showing witness paper). Is that the shipping receipt ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q,. To whom was the bill sent ? A. The bill was sent to B. 
 J. Ford, at 26 Bridge street, Newark, N. J. 
 q. What is the amount of that? A. $118.35. 
 q. Look at this invoice of January 8th, 1891, for $23 ; is the 
 same true of that? A. Except as to the way it went. 
 
 Q. It went by another road? A. It went by the Adams 
 Express, but the bill went the same way. 
 
 Q. [ show you a duplicate invoice of December 16th, 1891, B. 
 J. Ford, $211.84; was that sent likewise? A. Except that it 
 went by the Pennsylvania Railroad. 
 
 §. And the bill sent to Newark? A. The bill sent to Newark. 
 Q. Look at the invoice of December 3d, 1892, $52.75? A. 
 That also went the same as the others. 
 
 Q. Look also at the invoice of December 12th, 1893, $181.17. 
 A. That also went in the same way. 
 
 Q. Who paid tor these goods ? A. Mr. Ford. 
 Q,. By his individual check? A. That I am not sure of; I 
 think if he did not I should have noticed it. 
 
 Q. Can you state the dates when they were paid, and whether 
 there were any discounts tor casb, or anything like that? A. 
 January 6th, 1891, was paid by check on January 12th, 1891, 
 with 2 per cent, off for 10 days cash ; the bill of January 8th 
 was paid by check on January 12th, less 2 per cent, for ten days 
 cash; the bill of December 16th, 1891, was paid by check 
 received December 28th, 1891, less 2 per cent, for 10 days cash; 
 the bill of December 3d, 1892, was paid by check December 8th, 
 
 1892, less 2 per cent, for 10 days cash ; the bill of December 12th, 
 
 1893, was paid by check December 18th, 1893, less 2 per cent, 
 for 10 days cash. 
 
 Q,. And all these goods I understand you were shipped to the 
 State House, Trenton? A. They were, sir. 
 
 Q. Who bought these goods? A. Mr. Ford himself. 
 
 Q. Did he come to the store? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Each year when these bills came ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What are these prices, wholesale prices or retail prices? 
 A. They are wholesale prices, averaging I should say 10 per 
 cent, higher than the prices we sell to our best trade, what we 
 
ALEXANDER I. EEILLY. 29 
 
 call the jobbing trade; that is to say our lowest prices are less by 
 10 per cent, than they are. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to present to the Committee 
 duplicate invoices from Mesers. Colgate & Company, 
 soap makers and perfumers, John street, New York, 
 certified to be correct by them, and I would like to put 
 this in for the purpose of comparison at this time, re- 
 ferring if necessary to the duplicate invoices actually 
 proved. One of these invoices is dated December, 1890 ; 
 another December 12th, 1891; another December 5th, 
 1892; December 9th, 1892; December 27th, 1893; with 
 a memorandum attached to the bill as to the shipment, 
 billed to the State House, Trenton, N. J., but marked 
 "B. J. Ford, Superintendent," with a memorandum of 
 payment by Mr. Ford, less 2 per cent, discount for cash 
 in each case. I have the different dates of payment, 
 they are all within 10 days of the date of the bill. 
 
 I may say to the Committee at this time, for the sake 
 of completeness, that there are no bills to the State 
 on file in the Comprtroller's or Treasurer's office for 
 these goods, although they are all shipped to the State 
 House ; there is nothing from Colgate & Company, and 
 nothing irom Bradley & Smith, although they were 
 shipped to the State House, and they went on the books 
 of Colgate & Company charged to the State House, they 
 were not billed to the State House or paid for by the 
 State. 
 
 Also an invoice in regard to which I would like to 
 make some reservation, producing a witness hereafter 
 to verity the facts, if necessary, from Miles Bros. & Co., 
 ]02 iFulton Street, ITew York, invoice December 22, 
 1893, and December 29, 1893, for $143, for hairbrushes, 
 combs and whisk brooms and other materials. 
 
 Alexander I. Reilly, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mk. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. In Newark, sir. 
 
 §. What is your occupoation ? J.. I am surperintendent of 
 agents for the Prudential Insurance Company. 
 
 Q. How long have you been in their employ ? A. Thirteen 
 years next May. 
 
 y. Do you know Mr. Bernard J. Ford ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In what way, if any, are you related to him ? A. He is my 
 wife's uncle. 
 
30 ALEXANDER I. REILLT. 
 
 Q. I show you a bill dated Newark, December 22, 1890, N. J. 
 Legislature, bought of Alexander I. Reilly, $748.40 ; is that in 
 your handwriting ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the affidavit on the back, is that your signature to 
 the affidavit ? A. Yes sir. 
 
 Q. Did you swear to the affidavit? A. No, sir. 
 Q. You did not? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't go before any officer to swear to it ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. The affidavit is this : " New Jersey, ss. — Alexander Reilly, 
 
 being duly sworn, saith that this account is correct and just, and 
 
 that the services were rendered and articles furnished as stated 
 
 therein. Alexander I. Reilly. Sworn and subscribed before me 
 
 this 27th day of January, 1891. Michael T. Barrett, Master in 
 
 Chancery, Newark, N. J." To whom did you give this bill after 
 
 you had signed the affidavit? A. I think I gave it to Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. Did you furnish any materials to the State? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. How came you to make up this bill to the State? A. Mr. 
 
 Ford represented to me that he had expended his money in the 
 
 purchase of these goods in New York at bottom prices in order 
 
 to save money to the State, and that he could not, being an 
 
 employe of the State, render a bill for it, and he asked me if I 
 
 wouldn't make a bill out in my name and submit it. 
 
 Q. Did he first make a bill and bring to you ? A. He brought 
 a memorandum similar to that. 
 
 Q. With items and prices ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you copied this in your handwriting from that memo- 
 randum ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where was that done ? ^. In Newark. 
 Q. At what place in Newark ? A. It was either in my office 
 or in his house ; there were two made up in his house, and two 
 in my office, I think. 
 
 Q. I show you bill of January, 1892, which appears to be the 
 next one, dated Newark, January 14th, 1892 : " Legislature N. J., 
 to Alexander I. Reilly, $1,045.83," with an affidavit on the back 
 signed "Alexander I. Reilly ; sworn and subscribed January 22, 
 Michael T. Barrett, Master in Chancery, N. J." Did you swear 
 to that affidavit ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was the jurat already on it signed, or was it in blank when 
 left in your hands; by the jurat, I mean the Master's certificate ? 
 A. It was — I was with Mr. Barrett when he signed it. 
 
 Q. You were with him in that case, in 1892 ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 and in both cases. 
 
 Q. Where was it ? A. The first one was at his house, and the 
 other one was down at the city hall one evening. 
 
ALEXANDER I. KEILLY. 31 
 
 Q. You mean to say he had this bill with him "i A. 1 had it 
 with me ; I took it to him. 
 
 Q. Btfore you gave it to Mr. Ford ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How about the other two ? A. Two years following; made 
 no aflBdavit to either of those. 
 
 Q. You swore to none of them ? A. None of them. 
 
 Q. Did you go before any Master in Chancery ? A. There 
 was one of them was made out. by a notary public. 
 
 Q. Did you go before the notary public ? A. He was there, 
 but I made no affidavit. 
 
 Q. Where? A. At my office; I think that was the last one. 
 
 Q. But you made no affidavit ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. In none of the cases? A. None of the cases. 
 
 Q. You are sure the officers signed in your presence? A. I 
 don't know that, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't know whether they did or not ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the third bill, December 10th, 1892, for $823; is 
 that your signature to the affidavit? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (c^. And is the bill in your handwriting ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the fourth bill, January 14th, 1894, for $1,186.18 ; 
 is that likewise in your handwriting? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the signature to the affidavit ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But you didn't swear to it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And these were all copied by you from notes which Mr. 
 Ford handed to you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And either at his house or at your office? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember which at his house and which at your 
 office ? A. The last one was made out at his daughter's house, 
 and I think the first one was made out at his house and the other 
 two at my office. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the memoranda he gave you from 
 which you copied these bills 1 A. I returned it with the bill. 
 
 Q. To him ? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. Handed them back to him ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was he with you while you were doing the copying ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. How long did he leave the bills with you? A. Oh, when 
 I made it out in his house I completed it. 
 
 Q. While he was there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he took it right away with him ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then you did not go before any Master that time, did 
 you? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Which one was that? A. That was the first one. 
 
32 ALEXANDER I. EEILLY. 
 
 Q. And the Becond one, where was that? A. Where was that 
 made out? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. In my office. 
 
 Q. Did he stay while you were making it out ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. How long did he leave it with you? A. A day or two. 
 
 Q. Did you go before Barrett? A. I took it down with me. 
 
 Q. Did you leave it with Barrett or Ford? A. I brought it 
 away with me. 
 
 Q. From Barrett ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Barrett signed that, then, in your presence? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you gave it to Ford ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. With the memorandum from which it was made up? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And how about the third one; where was that made? A. 
 I dou't recollect the third one, where — it was made out in my 
 office, I think. 
 
 Q. And handed back to Ford ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you think he was there while you were doing it? A. 
 No, sir, I don't think so ; I think he called for it, or I took it to 
 his house, I forget which. 
 
 Q. Did you go before any Master with that one ? A. 1 don't 
 recollect that one. 
 
 Q. How about the last one, which was a year ago now, last 
 winter? A. That was made out at his daughter's house. 
 
 Q. And what did you do with it after you had made it out, 
 baud it back to him ? A. Handed it to him ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he took it away with him ? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. Then you didn't go before Knell at that time ? A. He was 
 in my office at that time. 
 
 Q. When did he sign that in your office; were you there? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That must have been later then, afterwards ? A. After I 
 had made it out. 
 
 Q. You say you made it out at his daughter's house ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How did Knell ever see it? J.. He brought it down to 
 my office. 
 
 Q. Mr. Ford did ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever see any of these goods that were mentioned 
 iu any of these four bills? A, No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know where they came from ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Do you know anything about the prices ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. You didn't buy any goods for the State ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Nor sell any to the State? A. No, sir. 
 
ALEXANDER I. EEILLY. 33 
 
 Q. You simply made out these bills to accommodate Mr. 
 Ford ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, Mr. Eeilly, look at this warrant for $748.40, which 
 seems to have been received by you January 28, 1891 ; is that 
 your signature to the warrant? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that your endorsement upon the check ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And from the endorsement you would appear to have de- 
 posited that in the North Ward Bank ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got your bank book here with the North Ward 
 Bank ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You deposited that with them on January 31,1891? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you your check books here, and your checks ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Show us what you did with that money. You have a 
 check here drawn to Alexander I. E,eilly, $740 ; what did you 
 do with it? A. I give it to Mr. Ford's daughter. 
 
 Q. Was that the same day on which you deposited the money ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And left your balance in the bank a very trifling sum, did 
 it not, just a few dollars? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you the second warrant, January 26, 1892, for 
 $1,054.83 ; is that your signature at the bottom of the warrant ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that your endorsement upon the check? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That you also deposited in the North Ward Bank? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Show us your bank-book ; this is the deposit, is it not, 
 on January 27th, 1892, $1,054.83? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. What did you do with that money ? Here is the cheek the 
 same date, January 27th — the year seems to have no date — " Pay 
 to bearer $1,054.83;" did you draw that money ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the money after you had drawn it? 
 A. Grive it to his daughter. ^ 
 
 §. Mr. Ford's daughter ? ^. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What balance did that leave you in the bank ? A. Three 
 dollars. 
 
 Q. Look at the third warrant— December 13th, 1892, $823 — 
 did you sign that warrant? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. Did you endorse the check which paid it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is stamped, " For deposit to the credit of the Fidelity 
 Title and Deposit Co.;" what did you do with that? A. Drawed 
 that — cashed by the Fidelity Bank. 
 
 Q, They cashed it for you ? A, Yes, sir. 
 
 3 SH 
 
34 ALEXANDER I. EEILLY. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the money? A. I gave it Mr. 
 Ford's daughter? 
 
 Q. And the fourth one, the warrant of January 15th, 18P4, for 
 11,186.18, did you sign a receipt for that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you endorse the check ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That seems to have a stamp also of the Fidelity Company ; 
 did they cash that for you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To whom did you give the money? A. Mr. Ford's 
 daughter. 
 
 Q. Does his daughter live with Mr. Ford? A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Where does she live? A. She lives now in Rowland street. 
 
 Q. She lives in Newark ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you give it to her, was that Mr. Ford's direction ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where did you give it to her? A. At her home. 
 
 Q. Which was at what place at that time ? A. In JSTewark. 
 
 Q. Took the money to her and gave it to her ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is she a married or unmarried person? A. Not married. 
 
 Q. And doesn't live with her father, you say? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. With whom does she live ? A. Her brother and an aunt. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Ford give you that direction each time, to deliver 
 it to her? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know anything at all about these goods mentioned 
 in these four bills? A. I do not, sir. 
 
 Q. Had you any connection with the transaction at all, except 
 what you have stated here? A. None, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have any profit out of it yourself? A. Not one 
 cent. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) I understood you to say that you 
 received, directly or indirectly, no profit out of the transaction ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees] — And you made out these bills at 
 the request of Mr. Ford, for the reason that you stated, that you 
 supposed it was in order that h§ might get the money for them ? 
 A. Yes, sir; he was a man with whom I had the most implicit 
 confidence, and he had always been considered honest before, 
 and I didn't have any reason to suspect he was doing anything 
 wrong at that time, nor would he lead me into anything wrong; 
 I done it innocently, and innocent of any harm, supposing it was 
 all right. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These invoices have come, some of 
 them, to my hands only to-day; I have had but little 
 opportunity to make examination such as I would like 
 to make, but I do desire to call the attention of the 
 
STATE HOUSE EXPENSES. 35 
 
 Committee to some facts in respect to them which are 
 quite obvious at a glaace. The goods which we fiad 
 in these invoices that I have presented' are the same 
 sort of goods in Mr. Eeilly's bill; some of the items in 
 the invoices will be found to. be copied in the same 
 order in Mr. Reilly's bill, a coincidence, which seems 
 quite significant. The prices do not agree, except pos- 
 sibly in a very few cases, the prices in Mr. Reilly's bill 
 being very much higher; the quantities, likewise, do 
 not agree, except in some few instances, the quantities 
 in Mr. Reilly's bills being more tnan those which I have 
 observed in the invoices. For example, the first bill of 
 Mr. Reilly, dated December 22, 1890, for $748, begins 
 in this way : 
 
 " Five dozen ostrich-feather dusters, 18 inches, $25 a 
 dozen, $125." l!fow, referring to Messrs. Bradley & 
 Smith's bill for what they sent to the State House a few 
 days before that, it will be seen that their bill is actually 
 dated after — there is another matter which I ought to 
 call the attention of the committee to — Mr. Reilly's bill 
 is dated December 22, 1894, about three weeks anterior 
 to the meeting of the Legislature, approved correct by 
 Mr. Ford, January 26, 1891, more than a month later, 
 and the affidavit is dated January 27, 1891 ; Bradley & 
 Smith's bill, which has these items upon it, is dated 
 January 6, 1891; it would seem on the face of it to be 
 the antedating of the Reilly bill — for instance, these 
 feather-dusters upon Bradley & Smith's bill read this 
 way: "Four dozen feather-dusters, 18 inches, at $16.50 
 a dozen, $66, with 2 per cent, off lor cash." On the 
 Reilly bill it reads this way: "Five dozen ostrich 
 feather-dusters, 18 inches, $25 a dozen, $125;" the result 
 being quite a difference, the difference between $66 and 
 $125. Then the second item on Bradley & Smith's bill, 
 for instance, is shoe brushes; half a dozen shoe brushes 
 at $8 a dozen, $4; on the other bill it is put down at 
 " two dozen daubers, $2 a dozen, ^i. Then an item of 
 one and a half dozen; and on the other two dozen, 
 instead of three dozen, at $11.50 a dozen, and so on, 
 the item being about three times as great ; and so it 
 runs through these bills; all the items on Bradley & 
 Smith's bills can be practically identified in the Reilly 
 bills, but the quantities are in most cases increased, and 
 the prices, I think, in practically all the cases. Here is 
 
36 STATE HOUSE HXPENSES. 
 
 a rather important item, because of its size : Four 
 dozen chamois skins, jfTo. 9, |26.40; on the other it is 
 put down as four dozen extra chamois skins at $10.20, 
 S40.8O. There are some other items of that sort which 
 are still more striking. Whisk brooms, two dozen, 
 $3.50 a dozen, $7; put en the other bill, four dozen at 
 17.50 a dozen, $30; and so it rune. 
 
 Now, when we come to the bills, for example Colgate's 
 bill, four dozen of Pelham soap, $5.65 per gross, on the 
 bill rendered to the State, Pelhara's soap is at $6.50 per 
 gross, making the bill a few dollars larger than it was; 
 there it is $26 charged to the State, and here it is a mat- 
 ter of $21 and something ; so with the next item, the 
 White Clematis soap on Colgate's bill, $9.50 per gross, 
 and there are two-thirds of a gross, and on the bill ren- 
 dered by Mr. Eeilly it is two-thirds of a gross, $10. 
 
 I call attention to these figures because they seem to 
 explain on their very face the reason why these charges 
 for preliminary legislative supplies are so enormously 
 increased during the last three or four years; it used to 
 be $300, and it speedily went up to $1,100. The bill for 
 instance of January, 1892, may be compared with the 
 bills from Bradley & Smith ; the date of Mr. Reilly's 
 bill in that case is January 14th, 1892, just about the 
 day the Legislature met; the goods that came from 
 Bradley & Smith came a few days before, in December, 
 1891, and in that instance the same order is followed in 
 Reilly's bill that is followed in Bradley & Smith's, an 
 incident which seems to me to be quite significant — it 
 must be so — for example, in this bill the first item in 
 Bradley & Smith's bill is three dozen bristle brooms at 
 $30, and in the other tbey are put at $36 a dozen, or 
 $108; and so two dozen double dusting brushes at $9 a 
 dozen, and in the other bill $14.50 a dozen. 
 
 These bills are all approved "B.J. Ford, Superinten- 
 dent of State House." This one of January, 1892, is 
 approved correct January 18th, 1892, " B. J. Ford, 
 Superintendent, approved tor $1,083, George E. Gray, 
 State Treasurer;" I think each has the State Treas- 
 urer's endorsement. So the bill of December, 1892, ia 
 first approved as correct by Ford, and also by Mr. Gray; 
 so with the bill of December, 1893, the same thing is 
 true; the general remark applies to them all ; the quan- 
 tities in some cases agree, in most cases rliey do not, 
 
WILLIAM H. PRICE — SAMUEL DICKINSOX. 37 
 
 being larger than Mr. Eeilly's bill, some places double, 
 and the prices are almost invariably larger. In a num- 
 ber of instances the order of the items will be found to 
 agree in two bills, and in some places they are reversed. 
 
 William H. Price, recalled. 
 Examined by Mr. Cobbin. 
 
 Q. la regard to these goods furnished to Mr. Ford in the four 
 bills to which you have testified, are these goods stock goods, or 
 were they made to order? A. I don't think they were made to 
 order ; if so, I can state from the bills. 
 
 C2. (Witness shown bills). A. Nothing in them. 
 Q. You say there is nothing that was made to order? A, Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is a fact that on the bill rendered by 
 Mr. Reilly there is a statement that some of these items 
 were made to order; that statement appears in a few 
 instances only. 
 
 Adjourned until Friday, March 8th, 1895, at 10 o'clock. 
 
 March 8th, 1895. 
 
 Continuation of examination pursuant to adjournment, at the 
 
 place and in the presence of the Committee and Counsel as before. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — At the first hearing some evidence was 
 
 offered with regard to the supplies about the State 
 
 Plouse, and I have some little further testimony to put 
 
 in at this time on the same subject. 
 
 Samuel Dickinson, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Cokbin. 
 
 Q: Where do you reside ? A. Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Druggist. 
 
 Q. I show you duplicate invoices from McKesson & Robbins, 
 of New York, sent in answer to your letter written last week, for 
 goods bought by you in December, 1889. Did you go personally 
 to New York to buy these goods? A. I did, sir. 
 
 Q. And the firm of McKesson '& Robbins got them together 
 for you, did they not, and sent them here ? A. Yes, sir, and sent 
 them here. 
 
 Q. The invoices include certain lines of goods which they did 
 not deal in, does it not? A. I should suppjse some goods they 
 didn't have in stock was furnished me. 
 
38 SAMUEL DICKINSON. 
 
 Q. And they got them together and sent you one bill for all? 
 A. That is the best of my recollection. 
 
 Q. And did you not say to the salesmen of whom you pur- 
 chased them that you were getting them for an order from the 
 Superintendent of the State House? A. I intimated that they 
 were to go to the State House. 
 
 Q. I show you a copy of your bill rendered to the State House. 
 There are some goods here, are there not, which you did not buy 
 from McKesson & Robbins ? A. Yes, sir; Thought some goods 
 here in Trenton manufactured, I think; brushes from Clayton. 
 
 Q. But your entire bill to the State was made up from what 
 you bought of McKesson & Robbins and what you got of Clay- 
 ton? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Nothing supplied from your own stock ? J.. I don't think 
 there was anything at all, sir. I am not a general dealer in those 
 goods. 
 
 Q. What do you deal in? A. 1 am just a manufacturer of 
 medicines. 
 
 Q. A general storekeeper — druggist? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Manufacturer ot special medicines? A. Special goods; 
 yes, sir. Under my name. 
 
 Q. I show you the original bill rendered by you to the State. 
 In whose handwriting is that? A. I cannot say, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it made up at the State House, or at your office? 
 A. At the State House, I think. 
 
 Q. By one of Mr. Ford's clerks? A. That is the way I 
 understood it. 
 
 Q. You gave him the memorandum of the goods, did you, 
 and they made the bill for you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why was that done at the State House and not at your 
 store? A. I supposed it was in the regular order; I ^et a good 
 many vouchers from the State House there made out here on 
 State House bills. 
 
 Q. This is made out on a plain sheet of paper, is it not? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who put down the price opposite the several items? 
 A. I couldn't say, now. 
 
 Q. Was that done at the State House, also? A. I should 
 think it was. 
 
 Q. You didn't fix the prices, then? .1. To the best of my 
 recollection I made out a bill from McKesson & Robbins, and 
 added on a certain percentage. I can't tell you now 
 
 Q. Do you recollect what that percentage was ? A. Well, it 
 was a pretty fair percentage. 
 
SAMUEL DICKINSON. 39 
 
 Q. "What do you call pretty fair percentage ? J.. I call a good 
 percentage 50 per cent., probably 66. 
 
 Q. What is a pretty fair percentage ? A. Well, I should think 
 that was a pretty fair percentage, too. 
 
 Q. A pretty big one, isn't it ? A. Yes, it is, but there is in 
 drugs — we make a big percentage, but the cost of the article is 
 not taken into consideration as much as it is to get it introduced. 
 
 Q. Are there any drugs here in this bill 1 A. 1 couldn't say; 
 I don't have a recollection ; I ought to have kept this, 1 suppose, 
 for better order. 
 
 Q. Well, feather dusters, are those drugs ? A. No. 
 
 Q. Colgate's soap ? A. Those are sundries. 
 
 Q. Polishing brushes? A. All sundries. 
 
 Q. Blacking brushes, scrubbing brushes. None of those come 
 under the head of drugs, do they ? A. No, sir ; regular 
 sundries. 
 
 Q. Carried by supply houses, are they not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, let me refresh your memory in regard to these prices. 
 Ford gave you a list, did he not, of the goods that would be 
 required at the State House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In giving you that list, were there not marked upon it 
 already, before you bought the goods, some prices, indicating 
 what the prices had been the year before ? J.. I don't recollect 
 that way. 
 
 Q. You think the list that was furnished you simply contained 
 a list of the goods 1 A. I think it was in the shape of a requisi- 
 tion for certain goods. 
 
 Q. And the prices put down opposite them were put down at 
 the State House afterwards "i A. I presume bo. 
 
 Q. Now, I show you a comparative statement that I have 
 made up of these goods which you bought at McKesson & 
 Robbins, for which you paid $433.10. I observe that you have 
 charged them to the State, the same items, at $735.55, or that 
 you have added $302.45, or 75 per cent. 1 A. I think some of 
 the other bills were in that; I only had one bill. 
 
 Q. Yes, there are other items here which I have not accounted 
 for, but which you say came from Clayton. But, taking out the 
 items of McKesson & Robbins' bill, all of which appear in your 
 bill to the State, those are the figures. Now, was that 75 per 
 cent, added by you, or added by Ford? A. Well, I think it was 
 added by me ; I am not sure about this thing, it is so long ago, 
 and I have kept no record of it, but I should think on this bill 
 I would make about that much money. 
 
40 SAMUEL DICKINSON. 
 
 Q. Your ideas of good profits have advanced since I asked 
 you the question before, have they? A. No, not specially; it 
 might be that it was more or less — 50 per cent, or 60. 
 
 Q. You went to New York one morning and bought these 
 goods from McKesson & Robbins, ordered them to ship them in 
 one bill to Trenton, and afterwards the bill for them was made 
 out tor you at the State House. Did you do anything to earn 
 that $302 except to go to New York that morning ? A. 1 paid 
 for the goods ; I had the trouble of having them unpacked and 
 all gone over and examined; I think, to the very best of my 
 knowledge, a week, employed a couple of clerks to do it besides 
 myself, 
 
 Q. Did the goods come to the State House or to your store? 
 A. The goods came to my store and were shipped from my store 
 to the State House. 
 
 Q. And a bill of $400 worth of goods took two clerks a week 
 to unpack 'i A. 1 think there was more goods in that than that ; 
 I don't think McKesson & Robbins' bill of the amount of goods 
 as furnished, because there were other things that were manu- 
 factured in Trenton. 
 
 Q. I will give you every opportunity to test the correctness of 
 these figures. You will find every item of McKesson & Robbins' 
 bill upon your bill to the State, and that they amount to $433. 
 Did the State pay you first, or did you pay McKesson & Robbins 
 first? A. I paid McKesson & Robbins first; I wouldn't be sure 
 about that; I had credit enough to get that much goods, or more. 
 
 Q. But the State paid you promptly upon rendering your bill, 
 did they not? A. To the best of my recollection, they did. 
 
 Q. I observe your bill is approved by Mr. Ford, February 4, 
 and that the check paying it was givea to you by the State Feb- 
 ruary 13; is that your endorsement upon the check ? A. That is 
 my endorsement ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you add so much as $300 to a bill of $400 on a 
 cash sale? A. I don't think it was a bill of $400; I think it 
 was more. 
 
 Q. You think McKesson & Robbins' bill was more ? A. No, 
 I don't understand that there was only McKesson & Robbins' bill 
 in that bill that was paid by that check. 
 
 Q. I am speaking only of the part McKesson & Robbins fur- 
 nished to you. You paid them $438. For those items in the 
 State's bill you got $735. Why did you add so much? .4. I 
 can't tell exactly about that; I don't have enough recollection 
 whether that was all of it or not. 
 
 Q. That is all of that part of it; Clayton's part I have no 
 
SAMUEL DICKINSON. 41 
 
 dnnbt there is a profit on too, but that I have not got in tliere. 
 You received from the State $872. Did you have to pay a com- 
 mission to any body ? A. No, sir ; I did not. 
 
 §. Did you pay any? A. I didn't pay no commission. 
 
 Q,. Did you make a present to any body 1 A. \ didn't make 
 no presents, unless they call some champagne and cigars, or 
 something of that kind — 
 
 Q. About how much of that vras there ? A. Well, quite a lot, 
 ofi and on. 
 
 Q. Well, about how much in dollars ? A. About a hundred 
 dollars. 
 
 Q. To whom did you give the hundred dollars' worth of cham- 
 pagoe? A. It was no particular people at all concerned in it. 
 
 Q. What general people ? A. Dozens ; I couldn't tell you to 
 save my neck ; I don't know — Ford and Thompson. 
 
 Q. Anybody else ? A. No. 
 
 Q. All came to the State House, didn't it ? A. People that I 
 did this thing for ? 
 
 q. Yes. A. No. 
 
 Q. Or did you send it to their house ? A. No, I didn't send 
 it to their house ; it was drank on the spot. 
 
 §. Won't you say who drank it on the spot? A. I haven't 
 the slightest idea. 
 
 §. When you sent it up to the State House you certainly said, 
 "For Mr. 8o-and-So, with the compliments of Mr.. Dickinson " ? 
 A. I sent it to Ford's office. 
 
 §. Did you send it to the State House ? A. I did send it to 
 the State House, a good deal of it. 
 
 §. Where did you send the rest of it ? A. Bought it regular 
 in the place where we happened to be. 
 
 Q. Where did you send it to? A. Didn't send it at all; 
 drank it and ate it on the spot. 
 
 Q. Who helped you drink it on the spot ? A. Lots of people ; 
 I don't remember at all who they were. 
 
 Q. You have mentioned Mr. Ford and Mr. Thompson as two 
 assistants in that champagne? A. I think they received quite 
 some of it here. 
 
 Q. What Mr. Thompson did you refer to ? A. He used to be 
 sheriff. 
 
 Q. Was he the man who was assistant to Mr. FOrd ? A. I 
 think he was. 
 
 Q. Now, to whom else at the State House did you send any 
 champagne ? A. My dear sir, I couldn't tell you nobody that I 
 know of at all, that I recollect. 
 
42 SAMUEL DICKINSON. 
 
 Q. You remember only those two ? A. That is all that I sent 
 to Ford's office ; I knew they were there. 
 
 Q. Were you called upon to make any assessment or contribu- 
 tion politically on account ot these orders? A. Not on account 
 of those — I always have done it. 
 
 Q. Did you make any contribution? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Did you make any contribution in any way except the 
 hundred dollars' worth of champagne? A. That is all. 
 
 Q. If you desire to examine this comparative sheet you have 
 the opportunity to do so. 
 
 Mr. Corbiu — I offer in evidence the duplicate in- 
 voices from McKesson & Robbins. (Marked " Exhibit 
 30.") 
 
 I also offer in evidence comparative statement of 
 prices charged to Mr. Dickinson and prices charged to 
 State (" Exhibit 31 "). 
 
 Senator Yoorhees — One of the members of the Com- 
 mittee would like to ask the witness a question. 
 
 Examined by Senator Daly. 
 
 Q. McKesson & Robbins are wholesale dealers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The trade buy of McKesson & Robbins? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And this exceBs of price that you charged over and above 
 what you paid McKesson & Robbins, that was the profit ? A. 
 That was the profit. 
 
 Q. To you ? A. To me. 
 
 Q. And drug profits are high? A. Yes, sir; very high. 
 
 Q. And you made no exception in this case? A. No, I made 
 no exception, sir, at all. 
 
 Q. Brushes are sold in the drug trade ? A. Yes, sir; all these 
 things are sold in the drug trade. 
 
 Q. They are all incident to the drug trade? A. Yes, sir; all 
 incident. 
 
 Q. And the prices that you charged were the ordinary prices? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was the ordinary profit to the dealer — to you ; that is so, 
 isn't it? A. That is so, I believe, as I understand you; but 
 when you talk about brushes and soaps and that sort of thing, 
 why, you can get goods, you know, all the way from a dollar a 
 dozen up to forty, and more. Ford was kind enough to say to 
 me, although we never had any dealings but this one, that it was 
 the best lot of goods that was ever delivered to the State House, 
 and I supposed this bill was regular; I know nothing to the con- 
 trary ; it cost something to get these goods. 
 
SAMUEL DICKINSON. 43 
 
 Q. And this champagne that jou speak of? A. That is just 
 simply incidental, by the way. 
 
 Q. The champagne ? A. There might have been some cham- 
 pagne or have been some cigars. 
 
 Q. This champagne that yuu bought and sent here, was it a 
 voluntary favor upon your part ? A. Entirely so. 
 
 Q. And you did it out of a spirit of generosity ? A. Nothing 
 else, sir, because I was making — as I thought I had a good 
 contract. 
 
 Q. And you thought it a good contract; your profits — they 
 were not in excess of what you would charge anybody else? A. 
 Not the slightest. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. How came you to let Mr. Ford's clerk make out the bill ? 
 A. Well, I don't exactly know the reason ; ithe bills — I have 
 often had difierent bills made from the State House, made on 
 vouchers from here, from the office of the Comptroller. 
 
 Q. This is not made on a voucher. A. I see it isn't now; I 
 wouldn't have known it unless you showed it to me ; I had for- 
 gotten about that entirely ; I don't know why it was made that 
 way ; I don't have any idea of it. 
 
 Q. Now, I call your attention to another fact. This bill is 
 stamped " correct, February 4th, 1890, B. J. Ford," and you ap- 
 pear not to have sworn to it until February 10th, 1890. Do you 
 recollect how that was? A. No, I don't; I think that the bill 
 was paid before — my bill to McKesson & Robbins — before this 
 was paid to me, but I am not sure about that. 
 
 Q. You say Mr. Ford stated to you this was the best lot of 
 brushes that he had ever brought here? A. That is what he 
 told me. 
 
 Q. Are you aware that that was the first lot he ever bought ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You know this was in December, 1889? A. Yes, sir; I 
 supposed he had been furnished, or somebody else had been fur- 
 nishing the State House all the time with these goods. 
 
 Q. Do clothes-baskets come under the head of drugs? A. 
 Sundries. 
 
 Q. Furnished by druggists ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And waste baskets? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Those are drugs ? A. Not drugs ; they are furnished by 
 druggists ; druggists' sundries. 
 
44 JOHN RIKEE. 
 
 Examined by Me. Daly. 
 
 Q. In the drug businees you sell fancy articles, what ie de- 
 nominated fancy articles ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. IJseful articles for the household ? A. I don't do it now, 
 or didn't do it at that time; I have been in a special manufac- 
 turing business. 
 
 Q. But you sold them ? J.. I am in a good way, you know, 
 for getting any order that is placed in my hands for you or any- 
 body else ; I can get goods for you, if you want to stipulate be- 
 fore you start, or if you want to leave it until after you are 
 through. 
 
 Q. But you are in that line of trade ? A. I'dxn. in that line of 
 trade ; yes, sir. 
 
 John Rikbr, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. 1 think you testified that you are a clerk employed, or 
 rather messenger employed now, in the State Treasurer's office ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But really hired under the head of the State House expense, 
 really under the Superintendent of the State House ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Under the State Treasurer before the Custodian bill was 
 passed, and to a certain extent connected as clerk of the Superin- 
 tendent of the State House, were you not ? .4. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it your duty to copy off these lists of supplies needed 
 for the opening of the Legislature each year so as to have a basis 
 for the orders for the incoming Legislature? A. Only when 
 asked to do so ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But you were asked to do so by the Superintendent? A. 
 Yes, sir ; done that every year. 
 
 Q. And you did copy off' this list for Mr. Dickinson ? ^1. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did you copy off the prices which had been previously 
 charged? A. Yes, sir, always put the prices down. 
 
 Q. That had been previously charged ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at this bill of Mr. Dickinson's and say whether y'ou 
 know if you wrote that? A. No, I don't think so. 
 
 Q. Are you sure about it? A. Yes, sir ; I am pretty positive. 
 
 Q. Do you know who did? A. Ko, I don't. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer the warrant drawn to the order 
 of Mr. Dickinson for $872.10, dated February 13th, 
 1890, and the check paying the same. (Marked " Exhibits 
 32 and 33.") 
 
ASHER E. LAMBERT. 45 
 
 AsHER E. Lambert, sworn. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Trenton. 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Carpenter by trade. 
 Q. Have you been in the employ of the State as carpenter? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. At the State House? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q.. During what years? A. From 1881 to 1893. 
 Q. Were you employed as carpenter during the time when Mr. 
 Ford was Superintendent of the State House? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Under his direction ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember building some liquor refrigerators in the 
 State House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When was that? A. I think in November and December, 
 1890. 
 
 Q. How many? A. Two. 
 
 Q. Where were they built? A. Built here in the carpenter 
 shop, on the ground. 
 
 Q. And where were they placed after they were built ? 
 A. Placed one in the basement and one in the Superintendent's 
 office. 
 
 Q. Were they alike? A. No, they were different; one was 
 built of oak, and the other was walnut.. 
 
 Q. What were they designed for? A. Well, wet goods I 
 should suppose. 
 
 Q. Were wet goods put in them after they were made? A. I 
 suppose there was. 
 
 Q. The one down stairs was for storage, 1 suppose? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And the one upstairs for immediate use? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Was it used? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 A. How long was it used after it was placed there, in Decem- 
 ber, 1890? A. I think it was used as long as Mr. Ford was in 
 the office. 
 
 Q. Was it supplied with liquors ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Was it frequeutly used, Mr. Lambert? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Constantly ? , Yes, bir. 
 
 Q. Was there a man in charge of it, dealing out the liquors? 
 A. Not all the time ; no. 
 
 Q. Some of the time? A. I have seen a man on thereon 
 Monday nights attending to it. 
 
 Q. What did these two liquor refrigerators cost the State? A. 
 About 1225. 
 
46 ASHER E. LAMBERT. 
 
 Q. Do you remember the time when bids were being asked 
 for the furnishing of the Assembly Chamber ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you, under Mr. Ford's direction, take any hand in 
 obtaining bids ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do? A. 1 went with him to explain — that 
 is, as far as I could. 
 
 Q. Explain the bids? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where did you go with him? A. I went to ISTewark, one 
 place. 
 
 Q. Did you see parties there who proposed to bid? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember who they were? A. I couldn't give the 
 name of the firm. 
 
 Q. You explained the bids ? A. Y^s, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you see other parties afterwards, by his direction ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who ? A. The l^ew Jersey Church and School Furnish- 
 ing Company. 
 
 Q. Whom did you see on their behalf? A. Mr. MeKee. 
 
 Q. What is his position in that company '! A. J. think he is 
 president of the company. 
 
 Q. Did Ford give you any directions as to what to say to 
 them — as to how they should bid or how they should figure ? 
 A. No; nothing more than he did with the previous one. 
 
 Q. What did he tell you about their figure in bidding — speak 
 right out, Mr. Lambert? A. Well, if I remember right, I 
 brought him a bid, and he says, "Is that bid to cover the amount, 
 or is there anything on the outside of it ?" I says, " I think prob- 
 ably," or that he told me that there would be about 10 per cent., 
 and he told me to go back and tell Mr. McKee that it either 
 should be 20 or nothing. 
 
 Q. Did you go back and tell Mr. McKee that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When lumber was required at the State House for boxing 
 and other purposes, who ordered it ? A, 1 always reported to 
 Mr. Ford ; they kept the order-book and gave the order for 
 everything that I needed. 
 
 Q. And you checked it oft when it came in ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember lumber beiog purchased for these pur- 
 poses from Samuel Heath? A. Yea, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you the Comptroller's vouchers, being three bills 
 of Samuel Heath in 1891; one of February 14th, 1891; one of 
 April 23d, 1891, and one of May 30th, 1891 ; the first is $ 99.34, 
 being voucher No. 1239, paid in February. Dj you recollect 
 
A8HEE E. LAMBERT. 47 
 
 this bill coming in to you originally, or a bill from Heath origi- 
 nally, to be checked up? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it originally tor this amount or for a smaller amount? 
 A. Well, a smaller amount than what was paid. 
 
 Q. Smaller amount than is here now ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you check it up ? A. Yes, sir; I checked it up. 
 
 Q. And to whom did you give it after you had checked it up ? 
 A. I gave it back to Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. When did you first hear of the matter of this bill — who 
 brought it back? A. The next I heard of it, Mr. Heath's book- 
 keeper, Mr. Simmons. 
 
 Q. William Simmons? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He brought it back ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did he bring back with it? A. He brought the bill 
 I checked up and another one. 
 
 Q. Another one — this new one? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How did the two checks differ? A. Weil, he proceeded — 
 
 Q. State what he said to you. A. He brought the two bills 
 back and took them out of his pocket, and he says, " This bill has 
 been brought back to our office by Major Hurley, by the direc- 
 tions of Mr. Ford, for something to be added on for political 
 purposes," and he proceeded to show me where he had added on 
 three thousand feet to make up the amount desired. 
 
 Q. And he handed you the two bills, did he? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the old bill? A. I placed that in 
 my pocket. 
 
 Q. What did you do with this new bill? A. The new bill I 
 put back in the envelope that he handed me, and when Mr. Ford 
 was not in his office I went in and laid it on his desk and walked 
 out. 
 
 Q. Did you check up the new bill? A. No, sir; I had nothing 
 to do with it. 
 
 Q. Was this new bill paid by the State? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence the voucher, being 
 Comptroller's voucher 1239. (Marked " Exhibit 34.") 
 
 I also offer in evidence the Comptroller's warrant 
 
 paying this voucher, numbered 1441. ("Exhibit 35.") 
 
 Also the check of the State to the order of Samuel 
 
 Heath, endorsed Samuel Heath. (Marked "Exhibit 
 
 36.") 
 
 Q. Did the State ever receive these three thousand feet of addi- 
 tional lumber that is on that bill? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the old bill which you put in your 
 pocket? A. Well, it was mislaid, or something done with it. 
 
48 ASHEE B. LAMBERT. 
 
 Q. Did you take it home with you ? A. Yes, sir ; I have 
 been unable to find it. 
 
 Q. Did you have it there for awhile ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you see it since? A. I saw it some-time after that. 
 
 Q. Have you recently made search for it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How do you account for it — did you move ? A. Moved, 
 and I cannot find it. 
 
 §. Did you meet Major Hurley soon after this? A. Yes; he 
 was about the building almost every day. 
 
 ^. And did you speak of this incident — what did you say to 
 hiiu about this — Major Hurley? A. I met him in the corridor 
 by the superintendent's office, that is, Superintendent Ford's 
 office, and I said to him they had better be a little more careful 
 in their way of doing business. 
 
 Q. Did you speak of this three thousand feet being added ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. What did he say ? A. He said, " For God sake, say noth- 
 ing about it." 
 
 Q. Did you see Mr. Samuel Heath about this same matter 
 soon after, or about other business ? A. All that was ever men- 
 tioned to me by Mr. Heath — I went there to purchase lumber 
 once after, and I told him I wanted it at the very lowest market 
 price, and there was no commissions or anything of the kind 
 would come out of it, and I wanted it as low as I could get it. 
 
 Q. What did he say? A. Well, he said, "Lambert, you can't 
 afford to say anything about that matter in regard to what has 
 been done." 
 
 §. Did he mention the three thousand feet of lumber? A. 
 He didn't mention the three thousand feet of lumber. 
 
 Q. But referring to this incident? A. Referring to that ; yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Refer to the bill, if you can, and identify the three thou- 
 sand feet of lumber which was added. A. Well, it is ordinary 
 lumber ; we have used the most of it in the way of box lumber; 
 it is added up here. 
 
 Q. How much a thousand ? A. Worth about $25. 
 Q. Is it so charged here ? A. Well, at the rate of 2J cents a 
 foot. 
 
 Q. Show me the kind of lumber. A. White pine, at 2J. 
 §. It is that kind of lumber that was added ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. About $25 a thousand? A. Yes, sir. 
 (>. Then the amount added to the bill was about $75, you 
 think? A. Yes, sir; I should judge about three thousand feet. 
 
ASHER E. LAMBERT. 49 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence the other two lumber 
 bills, the Comptroller's voucher No. 2666 being Samuel 
 Heath's bill for $402.27. (" Exhibit 37.") 
 
 Also Samuel Heath's bill of May 30, 1891, |573.55, 
 being Comptroller's voucher 2950. (Marked "Exhibit 
 30.") 
 
 Examined by Senator Daly. 
 
 Q. Have you any recollection ot what the original bill was 
 that was presented ? A. Not the amount ; no. 
 
 Q. Nor you don't know what became of that original bill ? 
 A. I don't. 
 
 Q. Do I understand you to say also — you have not said so — 
 that Mr. Heath entered these items also in his book? A. I didn't 
 say so. 
 
 Q. Now, I want to know, did he ? A. That I don't know. 
 
 Q. Do you know if this was brought home to Mr. Heath's 
 knowledge, that this bill was being padded or raised? A. 1 
 couldn't say about that. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you ask Mr. Heath? A. I had no business to 
 do it. 
 
 Q. Why not ? A. Well, because I was simply an employee, 
 and I had no right to question anything of that kind. 
 
 Q. You knew you were doing wrong, and you were a party to 
 a wrong, and you were dealing with Mr. Heath's book-keeper, 
 why didn't you tell the principal? A. I said nothing to Mr. 
 Heath's book-keeper ; I simply laid it on Mr. Eord's desk — laid 
 the bill. 
 
 Q. What is the name of this book-keeper you say? A. Sim- 
 mons, Mr. William Simmons. 
 
 Q. Is Mr. Simmons here ? A. No, sir ; I believe not. 
 
 Q. Is Mr. Heath here? A. I think I saw him here. 
 
 Q. Can you identify the items upon this bill that were used for 
 the purpose of raising? A. No, I couldn't at present; he pro- 
 ceeded and showed me where he had added on first one and then 
 another amount to make it up ; not on any one item, but on 
 several. 
 
 Q. But those items you have no recollection of now? A. No^ 
 because there are a number of items there, there are so many of 
 
 them, 
 
 Q. But your impression is that he raised the bill by adding, 
 making an addition of those upon the wood that was used for 
 boxing? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Simmons told you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 4 S H 
 
50 JOHN EIKEK. 
 
 Q. Have you your order book ? A. There is an order book 
 present here. 
 
 Q. Have you got your order book that was used at that time, 
 about 1891 ? A. It was not in my possession ; whenever I 
 needed any material I went to Mr. Ford's office and he directed 
 me to go to Mr. Riker, in the State Treasurer's office, and he 
 gave me an order. 
 
 Q. Who made up the order ? A. At one time the book was 
 in Mr. Riker's hands, and at another, Mr. Thompson's, Mr. 
 Ford's assistant. 
 
 Q. The order was given to you then by somebody under the 
 direction of Mr. Ford ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you obeyed tjiat order ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. ITow, when the order was given to you did you enter it in 
 an order book ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was the order made merely upon a piece of paper? A. 
 From a regular order book ; put on the stub. 
 
 Q. On a requisition ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who was Comptroller then ? A. Mr. E. J. Anderson. 
 
 Q. At that time, then, Mr. John J. Tofley was State Treasurer, 
 and Mr. E. J. Anderson Comptroller of the State of New Jersey? 
 A. In 1891 ; yes, sir. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. After the Superintendent of the State House came — Mr. 
 Ford — who had charge of this order book ? A. Sheriff Thompson. 
 
 Q. He was the assistant to the Superintendent? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In what office had it been kept before the appointment ? 
 A. In the State Treasurer's office. 
 
 §. (By Senator Daly) — And who was State Treasurer during 
 the time that was kept ? A. Col. Tofiey. 
 
 John Riker, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with this order book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it kept in the Treasurer's office up to the time the 
 Superintendent of the State House was appointed? J. No; 
 this starts from 1889; June. 
 
 Q. There are other books preceding this, like it, are there not? 
 A. Yes, sir; this was kept in Mr. Ford's office for a while before 
 it went to the Treasurer's office. 
 
 Q. You are familiar with this book? A. Yes, I wrote all the 
 orders. 
 
SAMUEL HEATH. 51 
 
 Q. This date at the time we are speaking of — at the time Mr. 
 Lambert has testified of in 1891 — was this order book kept up 
 with any regularity, and were the supplies which were paid for 
 all in that order book? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. At any time, when it used to be kept by the Treasurer, 
 were the supplies all in there ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where else appears the record of the supplies ordered ? 
 A. I don't know. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — A search of this book shows part of 
 these goods were ordered and part of them not ordered 
 at all. 
 
 Q. Half of them, perhaps? A. Only two or three; I think 
 there is order 261 and 300 — 
 
 Q. When you didn't have a formal order out of that book, 
 what sort of an order did the merchant get to supply goods? A. 
 nothing at all ; go down and get them. 
 
 Q. Who? A. Mr. Ford sent whoever he wanted to to order, 
 or the Treasurer; at that time he was custodian — before the 
 Superintendent's bill went through. 
 
 Q. Who was that Treasurer? A. John J. Toffey. 
 
 Samuel PIbath, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I show you this bill, made out to the State of New Jersey 
 by Samuel Heath and an affidavit of W. C. Simmons upon the 
 back of it. Is that the signature of Mr. Simmons, your former 
 bookkeeper? A. Yes, to the best of my knowledge it is. 
 
 Q. I show you the check paying the warrant for that bill; is 
 that your endorsement upon the check ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you bring your books, Mr. Heath? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you your sales book or order book here ? J.. 1 don't 
 think we have the order book; we have the ledger and the 
 journal. 
 
 Q. When you received an order for lumber such as these that 
 have been testified to, in what book do you first enter that order ? 
 A. In what we call the order book, and carried from there to 
 the journal. 
 
 Q. Please produce order book for the spring of 1891 and turn 
 to an order of August 25th, 1890. A. This is not 1890; this is 
 1891. 
 
 Q. Give me, then, January 2, 1891. These are simply for the 
 quantities of goods, without any prices here, are they ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. I see the first item is 507 feet white pine, wide. State 
 
52 SAMUEL HEATH. 
 
 House. The item ou this bill is 609 feet white pine, wide; do 
 you know how that is? A. It doesn't always run even with the 
 orders ; that has been for the order, and the boards doesn't run 
 actual feet that you would give an order for. 
 
 Q. Would a board run 102 feet over? A. Sometimes we sent 
 them that way; it is frequently done. 
 
 Q. The book here says 507 feet at $4.50; the bill is 609 feet at 
 $4.50. Take the item of January 30; I see on the order book is 
 503 feet of 4x4 poplar; your bill is for 604 feet; that seemed to 
 run over, too. You have another item here of 503 feet of one- 
 half poplar ; that you have on your bill at 604 feet. Now turn, 
 please, to the item of February 2; the item of February 2 in 
 your order book appears to be 1500 feet white pine, $3; in your 
 bill it is 1800 feet white pine, §3 ; can you explain that ? A. N'o, 
 not unless they put more on the team when they sent it up; the 
 books will show what was sent at the time. 
 
 Q. The orders do not always correspond with what you send 
 out. Yon haven't the order book of previous years ? A. No. 
 
 Q. You can produce that? A. Yes. 
 
 Q. Now, what book does the account next go into after it 
 leaves the order book? A. It goes into the journal. 
 
 Q. Let us see the journal. Give me the first item of January 
 2d, 1891, to the State of New Jersey. I observe that your charge 
 in your journal, January 2d, 1891, is for 507 feet white pine, at 
 $4.50, which agrees with your order-book, but your bill to the 
 State is for 609 feet. Can you explain that discrepancy? A. I 
 can't explain that, no. 
 
 Q. Turu also to the item of January 30th. In your journal, 
 under date of January 30th, I find charged to the State of New 
 Jersey 503 feet of poplar, 4x4, which agrees with your order- 
 book ; but in your bill to the State it is charged at 604 feet. Can 
 you explain that? A. I cannot explain that; this is done by the 
 clerks, you know. 
 
 Q. Under the same date, 503 feet of one-half poplar, in your 
 journal so charged, which agrees with your order-book, and in 
 your bill to the State it is billed at 604 feet. Can you explain 
 that? A. One minute — I would like to look at it. 
 
 Q. How do you explain that, Mr. Heath ? Can you explain it ? 
 A. No, it is done by the clerks, you know. 
 
 Q. Eefer next to the item of February 2d, 1891. Your journal 
 has a charge against the State of New Jersey for 1,500 feet 4x4 
 white pine, $3, which agrees with the order-book, and your bill 
 to the State has 1,800 feet 4x4 white pine at $3. Can you explain 
 
SAMUEL HEATH. 53 
 
 that discrepancy? A. I cannot explftin either one of them; it is 
 altogether new to me; I never heard of it before. 
 
 Q. Have you your ledger here? A. Yes, sir (witness produces 
 same). 
 
 Q. Turn to the account against the State of New Jersey for the 
 beginning of the year 1891. In your ledger, page 314, 1 find a 
 charge to the State of New Jersey for $22.82. Referring by 
 pages back to your original page, 721 (should be 720), I find the 
 iten:i agrees with your journal and with your order-book. Eefer 
 to the item of January 30th in the ledger, which is the next item, 
 and refers back to your journal, page 766, an item of 140.24, 
 which agrees with your order-book and your journal. Can you 
 exftlaiu why these goods were billed to the State at larger quan- 
 tities than appeared on your books? A. I cannot, unless they 
 sent more, and the books ought to 
 
 Q. But if you sent more, ought it to appear on your books? 
 A. Certainly it ought; yes, sir; I cannot explain that, because 
 I don't know anything about it ; it is all done by the clerks. 
 
 Q. When that check came in from the State you endorsed it 
 and deposited it in the bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got your bank-books here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Which deposited that money in the bank? A. Yes, sir; 
 the Trenton Banking Company; you have all those checks. 
 
 Q. Do yon know whether it went through your cash book or 
 not, that check? A. I guess you will find it in the ledger. 
 
 Q. Didn't it upset your cash ? A. Well, our cash book only 
 runs this way. We keep an account with the bank, and they are 
 so much, the checks so much, notes so much, and specie or gold, 
 or whatever is deposited, so much. 
 
 Q. You mean to say that your cash book is simply a counter- 
 part of your check book ? A. It hasn't anything to do with the 
 check book at all. 
 
 Q. What did you mean then by referring to your bank? A. 
 When we make a deposit we keep an account with the bank. 
 
 Q. In your cash book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You have an account in your ledger with the bank? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q, You don't keep your bank account in your ledger ? A. 
 No, not in this ledger, but in another ledger. 
 
 Q. Is that other ledger here ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You have your cash book, and of 
 course all your entries of cash for your ledger accounts and cash 
 sales go on that cash book ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
54 SAMUEI, HEATH. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And then ol course tLat Las nothing 
 at all to do with your bank account, because you keep your bank 
 account entirely separate ? A. Entirely separate, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Turn to tbe account against the State of New Jersey again, 
 and let us see how it is there in the ledger. There it is (indicat- 
 ing); February 19th you passed a credit to the State of New 
 Jersey $331.90 on your ledger, did you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Which balanced your account ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The check you got from the State of New Jersey was for 
 $399.34. Why did you pass to the credit of the State only $331? 
 A. Well, there is another account with the State of New Jersey, 
 for lime and cement, and such things as that. 
 
 Q. This bill has no lime or cement in it? A. No. 
 
 Q. It is only lumber? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It is sworn to, warrant drawn upon it, and paid with a 
 check which you endorsed and now identify here, and it was for 
 the exact items which I show you upon the ledger, and why 
 then did you pass to the credit of the State of New Jersey on 
 that account that it owed only $331 instead of $399. Mr. Heath) 
 I will come right to the point. You got for that lumber from 
 the State $899.34 ; you charged it up on your books and credit 
 to the State $331.90; the difference between those two is $67.44; 
 what did you do with that ? ^. I can't tell you anything about 
 that now ; these books were kept by the clerks. 
 
 Q. Can you indicate any account on your ledger to which that 
 $67.44 went ? A. Probably could find it if I had time. 
 
 Q. Have you any memory about it? A. No, not that I know. 
 
 Q. I read from page 801 of the ledger, February 19, 1891 : 
 " Cash debtor to the State of New Jersey, in settlement of 
 account, $331.90; Samuel Heath debtor to cash, $331.90, trans- 
 ferred." Doesn't that indicate that the check of the State did 
 not pass through your books at all; isn't that what it means — 
 you only passed enough through to settle that account and kept 
 the rest? A. The accounts are all run by the bookkeepers, and 
 the checks are handed over to me to endorse, and he takes them 
 to the bank and deposits them. 
 
 Q. Can you explain this singular circumstance in regard to 
 the State check? ^4. No; I can't explain it; I can't explain 
 anything ; I don't know. 
 
 Q. Can you tell what these transfers mean? A. That says, 
 transferred to Samuel Heath ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. Well, that is money paid in, I take it, and it is 
 transferred to my account. 
 
SAMUEL HEATH. 55 
 
 Q. You have a private account on your own books? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Then the balance of this check 
 vFould be in the hands of the bookkeeper? A. 'So; the check 
 goes to the bank and put to my credit. 
 
 Q. You looked at the check, did you not ? A. Well, I can't 
 tell any more about it than it has my endorsement ; that is my 
 endorsement ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I see in your books an account with Samuel Heath. That 
 is an account with you, I suppose, personally, as distinguished 
 from your business accounts ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And I find this $331.90 which is credited to the State 
 charged to you personally ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. These entries then in your journal practically amount to 
 this, that there were gross entries made to balance that account, 
 and you kept the money t A. 1 don't know about those gross 
 entries. 
 
 Q. Did that check, as a matter of fact, ever go through these 
 books, that check for $399 of the State ? A. It ought to. 
 
 Q. Well, if it ought to go through those books, what ought to 
 appear here with regard to that $64? A. I can't explain that 
 unless we have the thing hunted up by the bookkeeper, and the 
 bookkeeper who kept those books at that date is dead. 
 
 Q. William Simmons? A. No; the bookkeeper is dead; he 
 was only assistant. 
 
 Q. I show you now another of these vouchers, one dated April 
 23, 1891, for $402.27, being " Exhibit 37," and a warrant of the 
 Comptroller for the same, and a check of the State for the same, 
 dated May 19, 1891, which warrant and cheek I ask to have 
 marked " Exhibits 39 and 40." First look at this check ; is that 
 your endorsement upon the cheek, " Exhibit 40 ?" A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, look at the bill of which I have spoken (" Exhibit 
 37 "), the first item, February 27, 1,440 feet of white pine, and 
 refer to your order book, page 249, which calls for 1,200 feet of 
 white pine. In your journal, page 13, February 7, 1891, I find 
 this charged at 1,200 feet, the item being $48 ; in your ledger, 
 page 314, also at $18. How do you account for it, that your 
 order book, journal and ledger show 1,200, whereas your bill to 
 the State, which has been paid, shows 1,440 feet 1 A. 1 can't 
 explain that. 
 
 Q. Refer, please, to the next item, March 2, 879 feet white 
 pine, $48.34, on your bill to the State, and being page 253 of the 
 order book; on the order book I find it 732 feet; on the journal 
 I find it 732 feet, making a total of $40.26; on the ledger, 
 
56 SAMOEL HEATH. 
 
 $40.26; your books all agreeing. How do you account for it 
 that it is charged up to the State in your bill 879 feet at |48.34 ? 
 A. I can't account for it ; it is all news to me. 
 
 Q. Refer to the order book, March 4, 1891. The two items of 
 March 4, 1891, upon your bill to the State are 578 feet white 
 pine, $20.23, and 1,200 feet white pine, $45. In your order book, 
 page 254, this appears as 506 feet pine and 1,000 feet pine. Refer 
 to your journal, page 19, it appears also 506 feet and 1,000 feet, 
 the total of the item being $55.21 ; in your ledger also, $55.21. 
 How is it your bill is charged to the State $65.23? A. I cannot 
 explain it. 
 
 Q. About 20 per cent, advance, isn't it, right along? A. I 
 don't know what it is; they don't agree; I see that. I didn't 
 keep the books nor make bills out. 
 
 Q. Refer to the next one, of March 6 ; on page 258 of your order 
 book, appears 1,000 feet white pine, 48 feet walnut ; in your jour- 
 nal, page 23, it appears the same ; the item is $47.10 ; in your 
 ledger it appears the same. How is it that, in your bill to the 
 State, which was paid, it appears as $45 and $11.76, or a total of 
 $56.76? A. I don't understand it. 
 
 Q. Refer to the item of March 14 ; in your order book, page 
 265, March 14, 1891, 3,000 feet white pine ; in yonr journal, page 
 35, the same, the item being $120; in your ledger the same; in 
 your bill to the State, it is 3,673 feet, the bill being $146.92. Any 
 explanation ? A. None. 
 
 Q. I draw your attention to the items of March 28, 1891, 
 which, in your order book, are entered there, on page 291, 
 appearing also the same on page 62 of your journal, with a total 
 of $20.69, and in your ledger the same, and on your bill to the 
 State — how is it that these items are all raised in the bill ? J.. I 
 have no idea ; I didn't know they were. 
 
 Q. Referring to the bill of May 30, 1891, total $573.55; I 
 show you the warrant of the Comptroller and check endorsed. 
 Is that your endorsement upon the check? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Warrant and check offered in evidence and marked 
 "Exhibits 41 and 42." 
 
 Q. Refer to the first item of this bill of April 8, 1891, 1,200 
 feet poplar; 1,000 feet on your order book, on your journal the 
 same, with an item of $35, and the same in your ledger, and 
 raised in your bill to $42, and raised to 1200 feet instead of 1,000. 
 Can you explain that, Mr. Heath ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Refer to the items of 13th of April, 1891 ; in your order 
 book 1,215 feet oak, 916 feet walnut and 243 feet walnut; in 
 your journal the same, making a total of $415, the quantities 
 
SAMUEL HEATH. 57 
 
 agreeing in your journal and the ledger agreeing therewith ; these 
 appear to bo raised in your bill to the State — the first one is 
 right, 1,215 feet of oak ; the 1,000 feet of walnut and 250 feet 
 of walnut, making a total of these three items $499.80 instead 
 of $415.96. Can you explain that? . A. I cannot. 
 
 Q. Turn to the item of April 17. I find the item of April 17, 
 that is alike in your statement and on all your books, and I think 
 you should have credit for it ; the amount is $3.75. Turn to May 
 19, page 426 of your order book. May 19, 1891, agreeing with 
 your item in the journal, page 203, $25, the same in the ledger ; 
 raised exactly 20 per cent, on the bill, the items in your bill to 
 the State making an item of $80. Any explanation ? A. None 
 at all. ' 
 
 Q. How long have you been furnishing lumber to the State of 
 New Jersey? A. Well, that is more than I can tell, probably 
 two or three years, in small lots. 
 
 Q. Has your service to the State continued up to the present 
 time? A. Well, no, not I guess for a year back; there is 
 nothing against the State for a year back. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say that these numerous discrepancies have 
 all existed in your books since 1891, and you have never discov- 
 ered it before? A. No, sir; I wouldn't have believed it if any- 
 body had told me there was anything of the kind. 
 
 Q. You didn't know that you were being paid from the State 
 more than you had on your books against it? A. No, sir; I 
 didn't. 
 
 Q. You got the checks ? A, Yes, sir ; and used them. 
 
 Q. Endorsed them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Deposited them in your bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Haven't you got a bigger balance in the bank than you 
 supposed ? A. We had a large business, and have a good many 
 clerk^, and they handle all these things. 
 
 Q. Have you any theory to suggest how this was ? J.. I have 
 not; this was done by the clerks, and I don't know anything 
 about it ; they never suggested anything to me, or it wouldn't 
 have been done. 
 
 Q. Suppose while we are at it we refer to these other two bills 
 and see how the checks appear on your books. May 19, $331.26. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — You don't expect that this 20 per 
 cent, went into the hands of your clerks, do you ? J.. I haven't 
 any idea that it could ; I don't see how it could. 
 
 Q. Your bill paid by the State in May, 1891, was $402.27; you 
 have testified that you got the check and endorsed it ; in your 
 journal that appears as $331.26, and the same date is Samuel 
 
58 SAMUEL HEATH. 
 
 Heath, debtor to cash, $331.26; it seems to have been passed to 
 your personal account as in the other case; do you know how 
 that happened ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. la your journal, page 299, appears a credit to the State of 
 $479.71, but you got, as you have testified, from the State that 
 day a check for $573.55, or nearly one hundred dollars more ; 
 that also appears to have been passed to your personal account ; 
 can you explain it? A. No, sir. 
 
 §. Have you no memory about this matter ? A. Not so long 
 ago as that. 
 
 Q. You mean to say that these clerks have been stealing for 
 your benefit all these years and you didn't know it? A. If they 
 did, I didn't know it. 
 
 Q. You don't imagine they took the money, do you? A. I 
 don't see how they could. 
 
 Q. You endorsed the check put to your account? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Have you had the bank books balanced lately ? A. Every 
 month. 
 
 Q. Didn't they surprise you with the largeness of their bal- 
 ance? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the money ? A. We are paying out 
 money all the time. 
 
 Q. Did you give any commissions to the State House officers? 
 A. Not a dollar. 
 
 Q. Make any contributions ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Make a present occasionally ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Not a present ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You observe, do you not, that 20 per cent, is added to each 
 of these bills, substantially that ? A. It seems to be, in some cases. 
 
 Q. It seems to be exactly that, doesn't it, in most cases. A. 
 Look on the later bills and see if it went on the same way. 
 
 Q. When Mr. Lambert spoke to you about getting some 
 lumber for refitting the library building, don't you recollect this 
 matter being referred to by you in your conversation with him, 
 and >our saying to him, "you can't aflord to say anything about 
 that? " A. No, sir, I don't remember anything of tne kind. 
 
 Q. Don't you remember Mr. Lambert saying to you, as he has 
 testified here, that he wanted this lumber for the library building 
 right down close, and there was no commission for anybody ? 
 A. It is possible, but I don't remember it. 
 
 §. Didn't you then reply that as to that matter of adding the 
 three thousand feet on that bill, he couldn't afl'ord to do anything 
 about it? J.. It is all news to me. 
 
SAMUEL HEATH. 59 
 
 Q, Don't you recall it? A. No, sir; I am not in the habit of 
 s&ying Buch things. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — This is an exception; it might 
 have been said under the circumstances? A. I think not. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Do you keep two bank accounts, 
 Mr. Heath? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. These three checks that I have shown you, did they all go 
 into the Trenton Banking Company account ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is your business account run in connection with these 
 books? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there in the ledger you did not bring an account with 
 the bank ? A. 1 have only the one account with the bank. 
 
 Q. But where does your account with the bank appear? A. It 
 appears on the ledger. 
 
 Q. That is, the other ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What do you call the other ledger, private ledger ? A. No, 
 we run two kinds of business ; we run lime and lumber and coal 
 and cement. 
 
 Q. ' Well, now, did these particular discrepancies I have referred 
 to, where would you classify them, lime, lumber, coal or cement ? 
 A. Those must be lumber. 
 
 Q. These are your lumber accounts, aren't they? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Do you remember the circum- 
 stances under which these warrants were drawn in your favor? 
 A. No; the clerk done it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — He had the bill and brought them 
 up here and these warrants were handed to the clerk ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And then they were brought to you and you endorsed 
 them? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you recall that you ever came here personally to receive 
 a warrant? A. I never was here; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Then what became of them after you endorsed them ? A. 
 Went to the bank and deposited to my credit. 
 
 Q. How do you know that ? J.. I think so. 
 
 Q. You only think so ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is it not possible that you might have drawn these warrants 
 yourself personally? A. Personal account ? 
 
 Q. No ; I mean after the warrants had been handed to you ; is 
 it not possible that you took these warrants to the bank and drew 
 this money on them yourself personally ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. That is not possible ? A . Not possible. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — When should this entry be made — 
 these two or three entries made — where you are charged with the 
 
60 HOWARD HEATH. 
 
 cash received from the State, to balance your ledger; how coald 
 that be when these checks are endorsed and went into the busi- 
 ness account? A. I don't think those checks were charged to 
 me. 
 
 Q. The amount of these bills were charged to you every time ? 
 A. Well, that goes over to the other ledger, that is, the cash 
 ledger. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Then we might find something 
 about where this difiierence went into the cash. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — My question was why you should be 
 charged personally with the amount of the accounts to balance 
 your ledger. Why wasn't it simply posted to the credit in your 
 cash-book, and posted from there into the ledger ; that is the 
 way you keep your cash, is it, or isn't it? A. No, it is charged 
 to me. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And all your entries, then, of cash, 
 go to you ? A. Pretty much ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — My question is this, why you should 
 be charged with the amount which has been credited to the 
 State, the amount of their bill — why you should be charged with 
 it if that check was deposited at the Trenton Banking Company, 
 as you say it was — why should you be charged with the $331 
 and some odd cents, when this check was |397? A. We keep 
 two sets of books. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That don't explain it ; that don't 
 answer that. A. I don't know any other way of answering it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — My question is, why you should 
 charge yourself with the amount of $331, when the check was 
 |397 when it passed through your books, and when you say it 
 was deposited in your account — now, why should it be charged 
 to you ? A. It has passed through the other ledger. 
 
 Howard Heath, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Are you the bookkeeper of Samuel Heath ? A. At the 
 present time I am bookkeeper for the lumber side ? 
 
 Q. Are you related to Mr. Heath ? A. Yes, sir ; I am Mr. 
 Heath's son. 
 
 Q. How long have you been bookkeeper? A. Since Novem- 
 ber 1st, 1894. 
 
 Q. How long have you been connected with the business ? A. 
 Only since then, and in the capacity of bookkeeper. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with the method of keeping this journal 
 that is shown? A. Yes, with the exception of one thing; I 
 
HOWAED HEATH. 61 
 
 don't understand what " transferred " means in the way of a 
 check which you had there. 
 
 Q. Will you explain what is done with the cash when it comes 
 in in this lumber business? A. Cash and specie is entered as 
 cash on the book, 
 
 Q. What is done with the checks that come in ? A. Charged 
 to Samuel Heath. 
 
 Q. Turned over to him ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Charged to his personal account ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't keep any bank account with this particular 
 lumber side of the business? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Samuel Heath keeps a personal bank account? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Does he keep two ? A. He doesn't keep two bank 
 accounts ; no. 
 
 Q. But every check that comes in you immediately charge, 
 Mr. Heath? ^. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Suppose a man came in and paid a bill of |100 in green- 
 backs, what would you do with that? A. If Mr. Heath thought 
 the $100 would not be safe in the drawer he would put it in his 
 pocket and it would be charged to him. 
 
 Q. The only cash that your lumber business carries is your 
 jietty cash in the drawer, is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got the cash book here? A. 'Eo. 
 
 Q. Have you got a ledger account of the cash ? A. The 
 ledger account has only the cash at the end of each month. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Herbert) — I understand from your testimony 
 that whenever Mr. Heath saw fit to take money away from 
 there it was chargd up to him? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Herbert) — 'Eow^, do you know whether Mr. 
 Heath took this particular check away or not ? A. Well, I was 
 not present, connected with that business in any way at that time, 
 and cannot answer that question. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Herbert) — Now, if he had taken that away, under 
 your system of bookkeeping, would it have been charged to him ? 
 A. It would have been charged to him. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — And does it so appear that it was 
 charged to your father ? A. 1 can only ofier an explanation in 
 this way, that I have made an error of this kind ; a man has 
 come in and paid in cash, or has — I have entered — if I enter a 
 check as cash I immediately mark it, Samuel Heath debtor to 
 cash, and mark it transferred, or something of that kind ; that is 
 just a clerical error. 
 
62 SAMUEI. HEATH. 
 
 Q. Bat the probabilities are that the system that was in vogue 
 in your father's establishment at that time, if these checks had 
 been taken away by Mr. Heath, that they would be charged up 
 to him ? A. Yep, sir. 
 
 Q. So that in order to make your books straight that should 
 be transferred only |331.90, that would be so indicated, and the 
 balance would be in Mr. Heath's own hands, isn't that so? A. 
 Yes, sir; that would be so. 
 
 Samuel Heath recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. "We have now the order book of 1890. I will resume the 
 examination of this first bill, February 14, 1891, being the Comp- 
 troller's voucher ISTo. 1239. Eefer to the first item of this bill, 
 August 25, 1890; 615 feet white pine charged to the State at 
 $18.45 ; on page 497 of the order book, August 25, 1890, 512 
 feet white pine; same in the journal, page 423, $15.36 ; charged 
 to the State at 615 feet, $18.45. Do you understand that; can 
 you explain that ? ^. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. August 27, 1890. Work on lumber, resawing to order, 
 $4.12, in your journal; charged to the State at $4.94. Can you 
 explain it? A. I cannot; no. 
 
 Q. September 16, 1890. Items which are charged in your day 
 book at $31.48 are charged here at $37.78. Can you explain it? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. October 16, in the order book charged $21.55, same in the 
 journal ; in your bill to the State 20 per cent, higher. Any explan- 
 tion? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. November 18, charged in your order book and journal at 
 $53.40 and $8.25; raised in the bill to the State to $64.10 and 
 $9.90. Same answer? J.. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. November 21, 1890, two items. 500 feet white pine, 500 
 feet poplar, and charged in your bill to the State at 600 feet pine 
 and 600 feet poplar. Any explanation of that? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. November 22, 300 feet yellow pine, 100 pieces of lath, cor- 
 responding with the journal; charged to the State at 372 feet of 
 pine and 100 feet of lath ; the bill is $13.27, and $10.75 in the 
 journal. Any explanation to that? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. November 25, 78 cents, raised to 92 cents. Same answer? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. December 10, in your order book 510 feet of white pine, 
 same in your journal; raised to 612 feet in the bill to the State ; 
 item raised from $83.15 to $39.78. Any explanation ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
FURNISHING STATE HOUSE. 63 
 
 Q. December 31, 1890, item. 250 feet yellow pine, same in the 
 journal, $8.75 ; raised to 300 feet, $12. Any explanation to that? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Will you please bring your cash books and your order 
 books previous and subsequent to those, covering the entire 
 period you have been furnishing supplies to the State ? A. All 
 right. 
 
 Q. Also this other ledger which has been spoken of, and your 
 check books covering the same period? A. Yee, sir. 
 Eecess. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to call the attention of the Com- 
 mittee to the matter of expenditure for furnishing the 
 State House, and, first, to an act of the Legislature 
 passed June 18th, 1890, which will be found on page 
 467, which appropriated $30,000 for the purchase of the 
 necessary furniture, carpets and fixtures for the offices 
 to be occupied by the State ofiicers, clerks in Chancery 
 and Supreme Court and any other departments or 
 bureaus in that part of the State Capitol recently 
 erected — that is, the front part, no doubt — such portions 
 thereof as may be found necessary to be expended under 
 the direction of the Governor and Comptroller, and to 
 be paid by the Treasurer on the warrant of the Comp- 
 troller. Under that act, which is, on the books of the 
 Comptroller, called "Furnishing new Capitol " account, 
 there have been spent $19,235. Also, I desire to call 
 attention to another act passed the same day, found on 
 page 470 of the Laws of 1890, being an act in relation 
 to the State House and adjacent public grounds, which 
 provides that the Superintendent of the State House 
 and adjacent grounds is authorized to expend a sum 
 not exceeding $20,000 for the opening, repairing, fur- 
 nishing and ventilating that part of the State House 
 consisting of the Executive Chamber, Legislative Cbam- 
 bers, Court-rooms and rooms occupied by the Attorney- 
 General, State Board of Assessors, Superintendent of 
 Public Constructions, Sinking Fund Commission, &c. 
 Under that act appropriating $20,000 nothing what- 
 ever has been expended, but there has been expended 
 for this purpose $44,000, which has been charged to an 
 entirely different account, known as the " State House 
 Expense Account," for which there is no appropriation 
 
64 FURNISHING STATE HOUSE. 
 
 at all, but which operates under the old joint resolution 
 of 1846. 
 
 Next I call attention to a joint resolution, No. 4, 
 passed March 20, 1891, found in the laws of that year, 
 page 526, which joint resolution recites that the present 
 room for the meeting of the General Assembly is not 
 of sufficient size for the comfortable transaction of the 
 public business, being poorly ventilated, constantly over- 
 crowded, thereby injuring the health of the members 
 and greatly retarding public business; therefore it is 
 resolved that the Governor is authorized to provide a 
 suitable Assembly Chamber and committee-rooms for 
 the use of the General Assembly by enlarging such 
 portions of the State Capitol building as he may deem 
 necessary, and that the Governor is authorized and 
 empowered to make such additions and alterations as 
 will afford the necessary accommodations for the 
 Supreme Court and Court of Errors. 
 
 Under that resolution the Governor expended $232,- 
 873, of which $16,947 was expended for furnishing 
 the Assembly Chamber. 
 
 This resolution does not, so far as I see, touch the 
 question of furnishing at all, but the account shows that 
 it was so construed and that sum was expended. 
 
 I call attention next to Joint Resolution No. 1, of the 
 year 1892, to be found on page 475. A joint resolution 
 authorizing the Governor to provide for the thorough 
 ventilation of the Senate Chamber and committee rooms 
 and appropriating money to defray th« cost thereof. It 
 recites that, " Whereas, the Senate Chamber is poorly 
 ventilated, thereby endangering the health to the 
 Senators and retarding the public business, the Gover- 
 nor is authorized to provide for the suitable and 
 thorough ventilation of the Senate Chamber and the 
 committee and officers' rooms, and the necessary money 
 for that piirpose is hereby appropriated." 
 
 There is nothing said about furniture in it, but under 
 that joint resolution there was expended in the ventila- 
 lation of this chamber and charged to that account, 
 132,388, of which $6,998 was for the furnishing of this 
 room. 
 
 Lastly, I call attention again to the account known as 
 the " State House Expense Account," which, so far as 
 I can find any law, proceeds under the old joint resolu- 
 
FURNISHING STATE HOUSE. 65 
 
 tion of 1846, and under that the great mass of the expendi- 
 tures for the furniture has been made. 
 
 I have here a schedule roughly prepared of the 
 amounts expended for furniture in this building for the 
 past five years. We have gone through a number of 
 accounts and taken out the items which we can identify, 
 but I cannot vouch that it is entirely complete ; I think 
 the total is larger than I here indicate, but those items 
 we have identified that have been expended for the fur- 
 nishing of these buildings amount to |123,909. It 
 begins in 1889 ; that would perhaps make it six 
 years, and I wish to note that, so far as these accounts 
 show and as appears by an examination of the rooms 
 themselves, this State House has been stripped from 
 garret to cellar of every piece of furniture that it 
 contained and something else put in its place. Some 
 of these rooms have been furnished twice within the 
 period that I have named. In these rooms expensive 
 walnut furniture has been taken away and cheap stock 
 stufi has been substituted, of oak. The quantities of 
 furniture that have been brought here, or at least have 
 been paid for, are something stupendous, and I defy any 
 one to check up anything like the quantity here in this 
 State House at the present time. The prices are simply 
 exorbitant, to say nothing else. The Supreme Court 
 room, which was the handsomest public office in this 
 State ; an office elegantly furnished and one than which 
 no handsomer has ever come under my eye, was 
 utterly stripped of its furniture and furnished with 
 cheap oak furniture, to the great detriment of its 
 appearance. The handsome and simple and dignified 
 decorations that were there have been removed and 
 something of an entirely different style substituted. All 
 this at a cost of what I have stated, with possibly addi- 
 tions. The State House now, from one end to another, 
 in practically every room, is furnished with oak furni- 
 ture. It was before throughout furnished with walnut 
 furniture or other dark furniture. With very few 
 exceptions what has been substituted is of a cheaper 
 quality, decidedly cheaper in cost if not in appearance 
 than that which was removed. Furniture has been 
 taken out apparently for no other reason but to give a 
 bill to somebody to put in new furniture. Such furni- 
 ture as the Supreme Court room contained, for example, 
 
 5 SH 
 
FURNISHING STATE HOUSE. 
 
 admirably adapted to its purpose, elegant in appearance 
 and satisfactory to the judges, was taken out against 
 protests and remonstrances and removed. 
 
 There is some evidence of a similar state of affairs 
 existing in other offices where the officers preferred to 
 be left alone. The bills for furnishing the State House 
 of which I have note here, were, among others, Convery 
 & Walker, $9,086; Scudder & Dunham, $3,149, and 
 th^e are some other bills not included in that of 
 Scudder & Dunham on another sheet ; Lawrence Farrell, 
 $4,574 ; the 'New Jersey School and Church Furniture 
 Company, $8,088 ; A. B. Dick Company, $22,972 ; John 
 Mullins & Co., $48,517, and a long list of smaller items. 
 I will take up, with your permission, first the bills of 
 John Mullins & Company. I wish to explain at first 
 that these are charged to various accounts ; for example 
 in John Mullins & Company's bills part is charged to 
 the ventilation of the Senate Chamber. Under the act 
 to ventilate, this room was furnished and $6,998.55 
 charged to that account. The furnishing of the Assem- 
 bly Chamber, $10,091.45 — and I may say here this is 
 only a supplementary bill, the principal furniture was 
 bought before this. To furnishing the new capitol $4,073, 
 and to the State House Expense Account §7,363, and 
 there is a small bill, " State House Fire Account," back 
 in 1887. 
 
 I ofler in evidence these bills, first one of February, 
 1887, $64.38; "Exhibit 43." 
 
 Furnishing Assembly Chamber, March, 1892, $6,- 
 456.01; "Exhibit 44." 
 
 June, 1892, Furnishing Assembly Chamber, $3,615.43; 
 " Exhibit 45." 
 
 Now comes the appropriation for furnishing the new 
 capitol, February, 1892, $2,768.30 ; " Exhibit 46." 
 June, 1892, same account, $630.69 ; " Exhibit 47." 
 August, 1893, same account, $495; " Exhibit 48." 
 March, 1894, same account, $1,090; '-Exhibit 49." 
 Next, State House expense, February, 1887, $2,951.30 ; 
 "Exhibit 50." 
 
 March, 1890, same account, $2,391.52 ; " Exhibit 51." 
 June, 1890, same account, $1,740 ; " Exhibit 52." 
 February, 1891, same account, $991.00 ; " Exhibit 53." 
 May, 1891, same account, $645.75; " Exhibit 54." 
 January, 1892, same account, $341.38 ; " Exhibit 55." 
 
JOHN RIKER. 67 
 
 January, 1892, same account, $1,623.49; " Exhibit 56." 
 March, 1892, same account, $1,739.41 ; " Exhibit 57." 
 June, .1892, same account, $627.06 ; " Exhibit 58." 
 June, 1892, same account, $3,970.29 ; " Exhibit 59." 
 March, 1893, same account, $1,583.34; " Exhibit 60." 
 August, 1893. same account, $887; " Exhibit 61." 
 February, 1894, same account, $6,267.91 ; "Exhibit 62."' 
 March, 1894, same account, $1,048 ; "Exhibit 63." 
 March, 1894, same account, $660.42 ; " Exhibit 64." 
 May, 1894, same account, $399.52 ; " Exhibit 65." 
 To the account of ventilating Senate Chamber, which 
 
 is really furniture for the Senate Chamber, one bill, 
 
 $6,998.55; "Exhibit 66." 
 
 I also offer the warrants and checks to the order of 
 
 John Mullins & Co., paying these bills ; "Exhibits 67 
 
 to 90" inclusive. 
 
 John Uiker, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Did you receive these bills of John Mullins & Company 
 when they came to the State House? A. Mr. Ford had them. 
 
 Q. Mr. Ford gave them to you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have blank bills of John Mullins & Company bill 
 heads here? A. For instance, Mr. Mullins would send in a bill 
 and there would be two or three items to go to different accounts 
 and it would have to be separated and Mr. Ford would give me 
 a blank bill out of the desk. I told him he would have to get 
 blank bills if he wanted those bills separated. 
 
 Q. And so you separated the different accounts when they 
 came here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Some of these bills are in your handwriting, are they not? 
 A, Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And some of them partly in your handwriting and partly 
 in the handwrj.ting of others? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. I show you " Exhibit 44," being bill of March, 1892? A. 
 That is not mine. 
 
 Q. Whose is it? A. 1 don't know. 
 
 Q. Is this note at the bottom yours, aa to where these goods 
 went? A. Nc, sir. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 45 ; " is that your handwriting ? A. The first leaf 
 is. 
 
 Q. The rest not? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you No. 46, February, 1892; is that in your hand- 
 writing? A. Yes, sir. 
 
68 JOHN RIKER. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to one item of December 11; one 
 Bailey letter copying machine, which was down at $102, and has 
 been changed to $60; why was that changed? A. I told Mr. 
 Ford that the press in our office cost $60, and he told me to 
 mark it down to $60. 
 
 fj. It went through in that way, did it ? A. Tee, sir. 
 Q. You took $42 off of the item, did you ? A. Just the same 
 us it is here; it is crossed out. 
 
 Q. Was there any kick about your taking off $42 off of that 
 bill ? A. Not that I know of. 
 
 Q. Look at "Exhibit 47;" is that your handwriting? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Entirely so? A. Yes; that is all mine. 
 Q. Look at 48; is that your handwriting? A. ISTo; that is 
 not mine. 
 
 Q. 49? A. That is mine. 
 
 O. 50; made out on State's billhead? A. That is made out 
 by a young man who is dead; George Wright, Captain Wright's 
 son. 
 
 Q. Was he employed about the State House ? A. He was in 
 the Treasurer's office, under General Wright. 
 
 Q. Do you know how he came to make out a bill? A. I 
 wasn't here at that time. 
 
 Q. Look at No. 51; do you know whose writing that is? A. 
 No ; I don't know that. 
 
 Q. 52; do you know that? A. No; I don't know whose that 
 is. 
 
 Q. 53; do you know that handwriting? A. There are two 
 
 nere; the Dairy Commissioner and Attorney-General ; that is 
 
 my handwriting and the rest is to show where the articles went. 
 
 Q. And this, on the side, "all articles for the old building"; 
 
 that is yours, is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. 54; is that yours? A. Well, no; only these stating what 
 offices they went to. 
 
 Q. Is 55 yours? A. That top bill is mine, and the office of 
 Private Secretary of the Governor's. 
 
 Ci>. Part yours and part not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is 56 yours? A. No; that ain't mine. 
 
 (J. 57 yours? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. 58 yours? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. 59 yours ? A. The top one is mine, not the bottom. 
 
 Q. Is 60 yours ? A. No, that is not mine. 
 
 'J. 61? .1. No, sir; that is not mine. 
 
 Q. Is 62 yours? A. No, that is not mine. 
 
JOHN SlULLINS. 69 
 
 Q. Is 63 yours? A. That is mine. 
 
 Q. Is 64 yours ? A. No, that is not mine. 
 
 Q, Is 65 yours ? A. That is mine. 
 
 Q. Is 66 your handwriting ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who did you see about these bills in making them out ? 
 A. Why Mr. Ford asked me to look the bills over and I would 
 take them and look them over and tell him there were some things 
 that belonged to other accounts that ought not to be in them, for 
 instance, there would be an account in there for a piece of furni- 
 ture furnished for the old building that ought to go to the 
 State House expense. 
 
 Q. Did you see anybody about them besides Mr. Ford ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Anybody from Mr. Mullins' place? A. No, sir. 
 
 9- What did you have to copy them from when you made 
 them out ? A. The other bill — an old bill. 
 
 Q. What became of the old bill? A. I suppose it was 
 returned, I don't know. 
 
 Q. You handed it back to Mr. Ford? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were the prices on the old bill in all cases V A. Yes sir. 
 Just a regular copy, that was all. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to voucher 66," charged to ventilating 
 Senate Chamber, under date of January 3, 1893, the desks of 
 the Senators are charged, 26 oak desks at $82 apiece, was it that 
 way when the bill came here ? A. No, I think it was a little 
 higher and I called Mr. Ford's attention to what he had paid for 
 the Assembly desks. 
 
 Q. He cut it down to that, did he ? Fes, sir. 
 
 Q. At your suggestion ? A. That is what I told him ; he said 
 he would tell Mr. Mullins. 
 
 Q. Can you recall any other changes that were made by Mr. 
 Ford except these two you have mentioned? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Those were both at your suggestion ? Yes, sir ; if I would 
 go to the Comptroller's office they would want to know why they 
 paid difierent prices. 
 
 John Mullins, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Cokbin. 
 
 Q. You are a member of the firm of John Mullins & Co. ? 
 A. Yea, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you produced your books here that you were sub- 
 poenaed to bring ? A. Yes, sir ; so far as I know. 
 
 Q. The subpoena issued by the Committee calls first for the 
 
70 JOHN MULLIXS. 
 
 cash books of the firm of John Mullins & Co., Jersey City, for 
 the years 1890 to 1894 inclusive; have you those? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. "Will you produce them ? A. (Witness produces books). 
 Q. How many are there that cover that period? A. Four or 
 five. 
 
 Witness produces cash book No. 9, from March, 1888, 
 to September 25th, 1890, also No. 10 from January 10th, 
 1890, to April 4th, 1892. 
 Q. You ran two cash books at the same time. A. Sometimes 
 we would, yes, sir. 
 
 Witness produced also No. 11 from September 26th, 
 
 1890, to December, 1892, and No. 12 from April 5th, 
 
 1890, to November 22d, 1893; 13, December 24th, 1892, 
 
 to November 21, 1893. 
 
 Q. Did you produce also your sales books for the same period. 
 
 A. I believe so. 
 
 Witness produces sales books Nos. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 18 
 and 14, first date 1889 and November, 1894. 
 Q. Have you your ledgers ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. You have two sets of ledgers, private ledgers? A. Yes, 
 sir, and a business ledger. 
 
 Q. Have you the business ledger here? A. These are marked 
 both private ; those are the ones that the State House accounts 
 are in covering from 1889 on. 
 
 Q. Have you the other ledgers here ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Have you your check book and checks oa the First National 
 Bank of Jersey City here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Covering the years mentioned? A. I suppose so. 
 
 Witness produced six stub books and one box of 
 
 checks. 
 
 Q. I observe these checks which paid your bills against the 
 
 State of New Jersey seem all to bear the stamp of the First 
 
 National Bank of Jersey City. Did you deposit them all in that 
 
 bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To what account did you deposit them? A. The business 
 account. 
 
 Q. In what name was that business account kept ? A. John 
 Mullins & Co. 
 
 Q. And your checks are drawn John Mullins & Co. A. Yes, 
 sir, I usually sign them John Mullins only. 
 
 Q. The account on the books of the bunk simply stands John 
 Mullins? .4. John Mullins. 
 
 Q. But it really was the firm's account; was that it? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
JOHN MULLINS. 71 
 
 Q. And this individual account was a private account ? A. Yes, 
 ■that is private account. 
 
 Q. That is is kept specially ? A. Special. 
 
 §. Did anyone have power to sign checks on John MuUins' 
 account except yourself? A. Not only when I was away in 
 Europe once or twice ; I gave a special power of attorney to my 
 fion. 
 
 Q. Please refer to these cash books. I observe that some of 
 them appear to be mutilated ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. When were they mutilated ? A. 1893. 
 
 §. Was it the night after election — the night of the election, 
 was it not ? . Yes, sir ; we found it the next morning. 
 
 §. Can you turn to those that are mutilated. Take the cash 
 books in order ; look at cash book iffo. 9, is that mutilated ? A. 
 No, sir, not that I see. 
 
 Q. That is cash-book beginning May 2l8t, 1888, and ending 
 September 26th, 1890? ^. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q,. Look at No. 10 ; is that mutilated? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. That runs from January 10th, 1890, to April 4th, 1892 ? 
 A. yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at No. 11 ; is that mutilated? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What pages are gone ? A. All after page 958, which is 
 from the date of July Ist, 1892, to the end of the book, which 
 appears by endorsement to be December 23d, 1882. 
 
 Q. Look at No. 12 ; is that mutilated ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is gone from that ? A. From page 282 to page 659. 
 
 Q. All between those pages? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Any other place is it mutilated ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. The dates covered by the mutilation are from November 
 12tb, 1892, to September 19th, 1898; look at No. 13; is that 
 mutilated ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What pages are gone? A. From page 2 to 491 — all be- 
 tween that. 
 
 §. Covering dates from December 24th, 1892, to October Slst, 
 1893? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Are any of these other books mutilated? A. I believe 
 they are. 
 
 Q. What books are mutilated ? A. Sales book No. 10, from, 
 page 782 to 873. 
 
 Q. Being from February 16th, 1892, to March 10th, 1892? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 q. Is that all that are mutilated? A. One private ledger, 
 mutilated, all between page 8 and 43 gone. It is the ledger 
 having the accounts for the year 1892 and 1893. 
 
72 JOHN MULLINS. 
 
 q. Is that all that has been mutilated ? A. That is all that I 
 know of. 
 
 Q. When did you discover that your books had been mutila- 
 ted ? A. The morning after election, in 1893 ? 
 
 Q. Who drew it to your attention ? A. I think it was Mr. 
 Moriarty. 
 
 Q. That is your partner ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Some of these books had been in use the day before? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were you at the store during election-day in J^ovember, 
 1893? A. I was there in the morning, but went away. 
 
 Q. Where were these books kept which have been mutilated ? 
 A. They were supposed to be — I have a vault in the cellar with 
 safe doors on it, fireproof vault, and the safe in the office. 
 
 Q. Well, the books that were in use ; where were you accus- 
 tomed to keep those ? A. The ones that were in use, we were 
 accustomed to keep them — sometimes, if there was too many, 
 they would be taken down to the vault for safe keeping every 
 night ; then they would be kept in the safe. 
 
 Q. Keep these big sales books in the safe? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And this private ledger which appears to have been in use 
 at that time, where was it kept? A. In the sate — supposed to 
 be in the safe, but they were all out in the morning. 
 
 Q. And where did you find these books that were mutilated? 
 A. In the office, out of the safe. 
 
 Q. On the shelves or on the counter ? A. On the shelves and 
 on the counter, on the desk. 
 
 Q. How many did you find at that time that had been mutil- 
 ated? A. All those, I think; there was only three or four first 
 and then the others were found. 
 
 Q. A week or two afterwards others were found ? A. The 
 others were found. 
 
 Q. Can you tell how many were found first and how many 
 afterwards 1 A. 1 can't tell ; there were either three or four 
 found first and then one afterwards, 
 
 Q. Do you know which ones were found first? A. The ones 
 that were in use then. 
 
 Q. What did you do about the mutilation ? A. 1 went down 
 to the police station," and I forget now whether it was the Chief 
 or the Superintendent sent up two detectives with me. 
 
 Q. Did Superintendent Smith come up himself? A. I don't 
 remember now ; I don't think he did, not there then that morning, 
 but Mr. Doyle, and I believe it was Mr. Dalton that came up 
 with me. 
 
JJHN MULLINS. 73 
 
 Q. They were put on the case, were they? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. Have you ever discovered who cut the books ? A. 'No, 
 sir; I have a suspicion. 
 
 Q. Have you ever discovered the sheets ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. None of them at all ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. A statement of this was given out to the Jersey City News 
 afterwards, wasn't it ? J.. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Published in it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was the only local paper that did publish any account, 
 was it not? A. I believe the Journal did; I am not certain 
 though. 
 
 Q. This account in the paper of November 9, 1893, headed 
 " Mutilated the Books. Mystery at the Store of Mullins & Co., 
 on Newark Avenue." That is what you refer to, is it ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 The Clerk of the Committee read the following 
 article : 
 
 " MUTILATED THE BOOKS. 
 
 "Mystery at the Store of Mullins ^ Company, on Newark 
 
 Avenue. 
 
 " The account books of Mullins & Co., of Newark 
 avenue, were horribly mutilated on election night by 
 some persons who efiected an entrance to the store by 
 a rear window. Superintendent Smith detailed detec- 
 tives Dalton and Doyle to investigate the case, but they 
 could find no clew which would lead to the discovery 
 of the perpetrator of the act. Nothing else in the office 
 was touched. No effort had evidently been made to 
 blow open the safe or to force the cash drawers. The 
 police were at first inclined to believe that some one 
 who was indebted to the firm had hoped to destroy the 
 books and thus confuse the accounts, so that they might 
 escape further payments. This theory, however, did 
 not seem plausible to Mr. Mullins. The detectives 
 questioned every employer of the firm and finally 
 reported to Superintendent Smith that the tearing of 
 leaves from the account books was evidently the action 
 of some of the clerks. Mr. Mullins again discredited 
 this, as he has implicit confidence in all of his employes. 
 Mr. Mullins has decided to let the matter drop where it 
 is, and as a result the detectives have given up the idea 
 
74 JOHN MULLINS. 
 
 of ferreting out the mystery. The employes of Mullins 
 & Co. decline to discuss the affair." 
 
 (Said paper is offered in evidence and marked 
 "Exhibit 91.") 
 
 (Witness) — I did have a suspicion. 
 
 Q. You have never discovered anybody? ^. No; I discharged 
 a man a day or two aiterwards. 
 
 Q. You have here your sales books ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And your ledgers here which contain the State House 
 account? A. I believe so. 
 
 Q. Page 17, State House, Trenton ; that page seems to have 
 disappeared; it is one of those papers that has gone? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Page 290 is also indexed. Page 290 of this private ledger 
 seems to run from January 17th, 1893, to February 7th, 1894, 
 and is carried forward to page 462. The last item is March 
 27th, 1894. The account on page 290 begins with pencil figures 
 at the top, $32,374.42. I observe that all charges in this ledger 
 on the debit side are in pencil? A. They are, sir. 
 
 Q. And that the credits are in ink? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know why they are in pencil? A. I do not, sir; I 
 never saw that book until this morning. 
 
 Q. Personally you have no charge of the books ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who had charge of your books ? A. The clerks and Mr. 
 Moriarty. Mr. Moriarty is supposed to have the full charge. 
 
 Q. Mr. Moriarty is absent at the present time? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He may be back soon? A. I think he will be back to- 
 morrow; he hasn't had any vacation lor about two years. He 
 was not feeling well and he has gone to Ft. Edward to bury an 
 uncle to his wife. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Did he go on a vacation to do 
 that? A. He was talking of going from there to Canada, but I 
 think I can get him back there before he takes that trip if he 
 hasn't already started. 
 
 Q. Do you know of any other accounts in your ledger that are 
 charged up in pencil? A. I do not, sir; I don't know whether 
 there is any there or not, nor I didn't know that was charged up 
 in pencil. 
 
 Q. I will refer you to the other ledger : I find an account in 
 the other ledger as " State House," page 402, that appears to be 
 from January 17, 1890, to probably December, 1891, and is carried 
 forward again to page 747 to January, 1892. I observe that in this 
 ledger many of the items of merchandise charged to the State 
 House have no figures carried out against them at all, but only 
 
JOHN MULLINS. 75 
 
 have an item " merchandise." Do you know how that is ex- 
 plained? A. No, sir; I do not. 
 
 Q. I observe also that some of the items here have pencil 
 debits and no ink debits. Do you know why that was so? A. 
 I do not, sir. 
 
 §. That appears to be the case, does it not, with all items ex- 
 cepting a few small ones? A. So it appears there. 
 
 Q. Either blank or else in pencil? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And this is carried forward again to the last page in the 
 book. This also appears, does it not, to be chiefly in pencil? 
 A. Some in ink and some in pencil. 
 
 §. A few small items in iuk and the rest in pencil, are they 
 not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the balance of this account is carried, is it not, to folio 
 17 of the other ledger? A. I suppose so. 
 
 Q. la that other ledger that folio 17 is the one of those miss- 
 ing? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 . And in the added footing of this ledger in pencil, $19,741,- 
 81 — parts marked in ink, the amount carried forward to folio 17, 
 new ledger, and the new ledger folio 17 is the one that is muti- 
 ]a d ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Take ventilating of the Senate Chamber, 1893, it is all 
 added on the bill of January 3, 1893, on page 1,132 salesbook; 
 I find a number of items under the head of " State House, 
 Trenton," these also are in pencil, are they not? A. Yes, sir; 
 I don't know why they should be. 
 
 Q. These appear to be items for carpets, some of them, at least, 
 seem to agree with the bill for furnishing the Senate Chamber ; 
 the bill of January 3d, 1893, is a very long one, with a numerous 
 list of item; this particular item, January 3, on the books seems 
 to cover only a short number of figures? A. The probability 
 would be that that might come different dates, and Mr. Ford — I 
 could probably explain to the Committee about those things — he 
 wanted some of the goods billed here and some to another place, 
 and some to another, and we had no way of finding that out, and 
 I believe he was handed the bill to know what they were, and 
 then he was to get some blank bills and take and turn it and 
 make it out, but in all cases they corresponded with this bill that 
 we rendered. Ifow where he charged them to we had nothing 
 to do with that ; all we could do was to deliver them here. 
 
 Q. You furnished a good deal in the way of carpets and fur- 
 niture for the State House, did you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. About $48,000 worth ? A. If the books calls for that, that 
 must be; I don't know. I furnished this room, I think, two or 
 
76 JOHN MULLINS. 
 
 three times, that is with carpets — either this or the old one ; and 
 the other, the old chamber, I furnished, and then I furnished the 
 new one a couple of times, aud the galleries all through the 
 place. 
 
 Q. This particular bill of 1893 tOjWhich I am referring, seems 
 to be simply for this room alone? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You furnished the furniture which we now see about us in 
 this room, did you not? A. I believe so; I am not certain. 
 
 Q. I see on your bill an item of $800 for the desk at which 
 the chairman sits and the clerk's desk in front of him. A. That 
 was built by a gentlemen in Newark; Mr, Hamilton was the one 
 that got the order; it was built by contract. 
 
 Q. What did those two desks cost you? A. I couldn't tell 
 you. 
 
 Q. Won't your books show ? A. I suppose they would. I 
 doa't know who they were bought for. I believe it was Hemmer 
 Bros., but I am not certain. 
 
 Q. What connection had Mr. Hamilton with you? A. He was 
 my buyer and salesman. 
 
 Q. He is not living now ? A. No, he is dead now; I am sorry 
 for it. In fact he had all to do with the State House ; I had 
 nothing to do with it. 
 
 Q. Can you say who made this furniture that I have spoken 
 ot'i A. I cannot, but I think it was Hemmer Bros. 
 
 Q. The members' desks you see here are charged at 832 
 apiece. Do you know what they cost? A. I do not. I think 
 those he had made ; I am not certain about it. 
 
 Q. With whom did you deal in supplying furniture for the 
 State House ? A. With the State of New Jersey. 
 
 Q. No, but what individual? A. Mr. Ford gave the orders. 
 
 Q. For all that you furnished? A. I believe so. 
 
 Q. That was to you ? A. To Mr. Hamilton. 
 
 Q. What did you furnish for the Legislature ? A. Everything 
 that I sent here— jcarpets, furniture, oil cloth, mattings, shades 
 and other things. 
 
 Q. I observe on your ledger that the greater number of items 
 are either charged up in blank or else in pencil. Who did, in 
 fact, make the prices for the bills that were sent to New Jersey ? 
 A. Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Moriarty. 
 
 Q. Didn't you consult Mr. Ford about that? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was there no agreement in advance as to the prices? A. 
 No, sir ; only when I 
 
 Q. Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Moriarty had all to do with that ? 
 A. They had all to do with that. 
 
JOHN MULLINS. 77 
 
 Q. You were going to say something? A. There was a time 
 that we had a contract — a time or two — and that was then in 
 advance. 
 
 Q. That was lor carpeting the Assembly Chamber? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. But for the most part there was no agreement in advance? 
 A. No agreement whatever, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you and Mr. Ford confer over the matter and put 
 down the items and agree as to what each should be billed at? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You fixed that yourself? A. Yes, sir; Mr. Hamilton 
 would fix it and Mr. Moriarty. 
 
 Q. Were you not called in in any conferences? A. I might 
 be, sometimes. 
 
 Q. But generally not ? A. Generally not. 
 
 Q. Did you know what they had charged for the goods? A. 
 No, I did not; I always told Mr. Hamilton to charge a fair 
 profit. 
 
 Q. And that is all you knew about it? A. That is all I knew 
 about it; I didn't know this account was kept in pencil until I 
 seen it this morning. 
 
 Q. Didn't you fix any of the prices of these goods ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And did you keep a run of it, so that you knew what was 
 going on ? A. No, sir ; I supposed Mr. Moriarty, being a part- 
 ner in the concern, would keep the run of it, and I supposed he 
 was honest, and I left it all to him. 
 
 Q. He is an honest man, isn't he? A. Yes, sir; I believe so, 
 so far as I have ever .found out. 
 
 Q. You have been in business a good while? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Had a good deal, of experience in this line of business? 
 A. Yes, sir; not in this line. 
 
 Q. In furnishing furniture? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. For public buildings as well as private buildings? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the State paid you promptly these bills ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. About $48,000? A. About that, as near as I can say. 
 
 Q. Are not these prices pretty round ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. $100 for a roll top oak desk? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. $100 for flat desks and flat tables in the Supreme Court 
 room, aren't they rather steep? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Possibly not to the State? 
 
 A. No, nor to any one else. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I haven't seen a hundred-dollar-desk yet. 
 
78 JOHN MULLINS. 
 
 Q. This was a pretty rich kiad of contract, $48,000 in one 
 building? A. That rans over a period of five or six years. 
 
 Q. It runs from 1890 to 1894 ? A. ISTo, I think you will find 
 that some of these bills that were ordered by Mr. John Toffey 
 and Major Anderson two or three years before that in that list — 
 about seven or eight years. 
 
 Q. You are right as to two bills, there is a bill in 1887 of 
 $2,951 to State House expense and State House Fire bill, 64 — 
 making about $3,000 all told, and then nothing until you get to 
 March, 1890? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you see any State House officials about this, except 
 Mr. Ford. A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. 'Never had anything to do with any of them ? A. No, sir, 
 except the men around the office here when I would come down 
 to get my money sometimes; I believe I got most of the money. 
 
 Q. You came down yourself? A. Yes, sir; I believe so. I 
 believe Mr. Hamilton or Mr. Moriarty came one or two times. 
 
 Q. You swore to the bills? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You kept your eye on it to that extent ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. For instance, these bills that have your signature on them ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that one ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There is one and here is one ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Here is one by Mr. Moriarty ? A. Yes, sir, that is what I 
 thought; I didn't know whether Mr. Moriarty or Mr. Hamilton 
 — those are all mine. 
 
 Q. Did you get through with all this without having to make 
 any presents to anybody, Mr. MuUin ? A. Yes, sir ; I think I 
 went out one or two times when I was down here and had dinner 
 with Mr. Ford, and he paid once and I paid another time. 
 
 Q. Just a stand off", then ? A. About that. 
 
 Q. No commission ? J.. No, sir. 
 
 Q. No assessments ? A. No assessments. 
 
 Q. No allowances ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And no presents ? A. And no presents. 
 
 Q. And no gratuities ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Nothing in any shape or form ? A. Nothing whatever. 
 
 Q. All you got oat of this $48,000 was legitimately your own 
 and you didn't have to respond with any part of it ? A. Not a 
 bit of it. 
 
 Q. Either with furniture — A. Not in any way whatever. 
 
 Q. What percentage of profit do you call a fair profit on this 
 kind of goods ? A. Fifty or sixty. 
 
 Q. For instance, Wilton carpet like this, $3 a yard, how much 
 
EUGENE MURPHY. 79 
 
 profit in that, |3 a yard made and laid ? A. There would prob- 
 ably be about a third — hardly that, I think. 
 
 Q. That is about a dollar a yard profit ? A. On that about 
 that; I think this cost $2.25 a yard. 
 
 Q. You had this made specially, didn't you? A. Yes, sir, and 
 the price was made in advance lor that. 
 
 Q. For the Assembly Chamber? A. No; I think for this, 
 too. 
 
 Q. This, I see, is 70 cents a yard higher than the Senate 
 Chamber? A. It' I remember right, it was Governor Abbett 
 that either picked this out or the other, I am not certain which, 
 and gave the order tor; that I am not certain about. 
 
 Q. This is American Wilton carpet? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And 80 is the Assembly Chamber ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are they similar in quality? A. I think it is; I don't 
 know ; Mr. Hamilton knows about that. 
 
 Q. I see that the carpet in the Assembly Chamber was laid in 
 1892, and was $2.30 made and laid, and that this carpet made 
 and laid in 1893 is $3 a yard ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When were carpets higher? A. I don't know ; about the 
 same, I believe ; there might be a diflerence. 
 
 Eugene Murphy, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where is your home? A. Jersey City. 
 
 Q. Were you in the employ of John MuUins & Co. in 1898 ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What period were you in their employment ? A. From 
 October, 1886, until the day after election in 1893. 
 
 Q. In what capacity ? A. As bookkeeper. 
 
 Q. Of whom did the firm of John MuUins & Co. consist? A. 
 John Mullins and Daniel Moriarty. 
 
 Q. What books did the firm keep in Jersey City ? A. Well, 
 they kept sales books, cash books, ledgers, check books — all 
 the routine business books. 
 
 Q. What ledgers were kept ? A. They kept an instalment 
 
 ledger. 
 
 Q. What do you mean by instalment ledger? A. Ledger in 
 which they kept all the instalment accounts. 
 
 Q. That is, furniture bought on instalments ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What else ? A. What they called private ledgers, and, of 
 course, then they kept a personal ledger. 
 
 Q. What do you mean by personal ledger ? A. A ledger in 
 
80 EUGENE MUEPHY. 
 
 which the accounts of both members of the firm were kept, the 
 amount of money that they drew, &c. 
 
 Q. Was that separate again from the private ledger? A. 
 Yep, sir. 
 
 Q. What books did you keep ? J,. I kept the ledgers. 
 Q. Were you the chief bookkeeper? A. Yes, sir. 
 §. Who made the entries in the sales books ? A. Well, they 
 were made by the other bookkeepers ; now and then I made an 
 entry there to help them out. 
 
 Cl. You made some entries in those ? A. Yes, sir. 
 <^. How many other bookkeepers were there ? A. There were 
 usually three. 
 
 Q. What did you do, if anything, with the cash books ? A. 
 I used to check the money off that was received there and entered 
 by the other bookkeepers; I used to check it ofi and see that 
 their cash tallied with the entry. 
 
 ^. Who kept the cash books ? A. Well, in what way ? 
 Q. Who made the entries in them ? The other bookkeepers. 
 Q. You didn't keep the cash book, then ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. But helped to put them and check them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Did Mr. Moriarty, the partner, have anything to do with 
 the cash books ? A. He used to balance the books every morn- 
 ing — add up the cash, to see tbat they were all right. 
 
 Q. Now, as to the check books ; who drew the checks ? A. 
 Mr. Moriarity. 
 
 Q. Did you have anything to do with the check books or 
 checks ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. When the vouchers came back, who checked them off? A. 
 Mr. Moriarty used to check from the book and I used to call 
 them. 
 
 Q. In whose name were the firm's moneys deposited ? A. 
 John Mullins. 
 
 Q. Where was that account? A. First National Bank. 
 Q. Was that the only account the firm kept there ? A. No, 
 there was what they called " Mr. Mullins' special." 
 Q. That was not the firm's business ? No, sir. 
 Q,. Do you remember the election-day of 1893? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Were you at the store during the day? A. Yes, sir. 
 q. Who else was there? A. Oh, there was a lot of men 
 employed. 
 
 Q. Were the partners there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 §. Do you remember how much of the day? A. Yes, sir; 
 Mr. Mullins was there all day. 
 
EUGENE MURPHY. 81 
 
 Q. What time did you shut up that day? A. About ten 
 minutes past seven. 
 
 Q. Were you there until then ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember the morning following the election of 
 1893 ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was discovered in the store at that time ? A. That 
 two cash books were cut. 
 
 Q. Two cash books were cut ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Can you, by looking at these books, tell us which two were 
 cut ? A. Yes, sir ; the two cash books that were in use. 
 
 Q. Select them and give me the numbers of them. A. They 
 were not numbered at that time. 
 
 Q. What are they numbered now? A. Nos. 12 and 13. 
 
 Q. You discovered that morning that those books had been 
 cut; who discovered it first? A. I guess I did. 
 
 Q. Where were the books ? A. The books were on the desk. 
 
 Q. Lying down on the desk? A. Lying down on the desk. 
 
 Q. Was that where they were left the night before? A. Yes, 
 sir; they always were left there. 
 
 Q. They were left there, ordinarily, were they? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. ISTot put away in the safe ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, how about the other cash books which were not in 
 use; where were they? A. They were in a rack, right in back; 
 there was a rack built low against the floor, and they were in 
 there. 
 
 Q. In any fireproof apartment? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. How far back were the cash books there ? A. Right in 
 the rear of the office there; there must have been twenty-five or 
 thirty books there. 
 
 Q. Were the sales books there, too ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where did you leave these two books the night before? 
 A. We left them on the desk. 
 
 Q. Lying flat on the desk? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you found them in the same place in the morning ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you discover any other books had been cut that day ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you look in other books? A. Yes, sir; I guess we 
 looked at every book there was there. 
 
 Q. And you found nothing cut? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you see all of the ledgers the next day ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where were they kept ? A. In the safe. 
 
 Q. Did you discover any of them had been cut? A. None of 
 them were cut. 
 
 6SH 
 
82 EUGENE MURPHY. 
 
 Q. I show you a private ledger ; was that private ledger cut 
 the next day? A. No, sir; there was none of those cut. 
 
 Q. Did you have that book before you the next day after the 
 election? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was that cut at that time? A. ISTo, sir; it was not. 
 
 Q. Look at jSTo. 11; was that cut at that time ? A. It was not. 
 
 Q. Did you examine these books to see if any more had been 
 cut? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the sales book No. 10 ; did you examine those sales 
 books to see if they were cut? A. No, sir; it was not cut. 
 
 Q. Then, tbe only books that were cut at that time, a^ I under- 
 sts-^nd you, were the two cash books, 12 and 13? A. Yes, sir. 
 That book there, the State House was on page 17. I am quite 
 sure that was cut out (referring to private ledger). 
 
 Q. Was anything else disturbed except these two cash books? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was there any evidence of any robbery, or anything of that 
 kind ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Any of the other books taken out of their places ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did you find anything on the desk about there which indi- 
 cated what they were cut with? A. Well, the next day there 
 was a pair of shears found amongst the bills in the rack where 
 the books were kept — the books that were out of use. 
 
 Q. What shears were they ? A. Carpet shears. 
 
 Q. Carpet shears that belonged about the place ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where must they have been brought from? A. Must 
 have beeu brought Irom across the desk from the carpet floor. 
 
 Q. Was that in the other store ? A. It is all one store now ; 
 the office isn't in the old building any more : it is where the new 
 part is built ; that is now the carpet floor. 
 
 Q. Had you ever seen these shears in there before? A. I 
 don't recognize the shears, but I know they were carpet shears 
 such as we use. 
 
 ^. If those were used, they must have been brought from the 
 carpet part of the store ; that is a pretty large store, running 
 through from street to street, two stores wide — fifty feet about ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And they were found there by the books ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was there any molestation, except the cutting of these 
 books? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you find out where a person might have entered to get 
 in and cut these books in the night ? A. Yes, sir ; the rear door 
 was found open. 
 
EUGENE MUKPHy. 83 
 
 Q. How about the keys ? A. The keys were gone. 
 
 Q. Who reported that ? A. Kelly, the shipping clerk. 
 
 Q. You said a little while ago that you were in the employ of 
 Mullins until the day after election? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "When were you discharged ? ^. I was discharged the 
 day after election, about half past three. 
 
 Q. In the afternoon ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You had been bookkeeper there seven years, had you ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What reason, if any, did Mr. Mullins give for discharging 
 you ? A. For playing the races. 
 
 Q. Did he charge you with touching these books ? A. No, 
 sir ; I asked him ; I said, " Mr. Mullins, I hope you don't connect 
 me in any way with the cutting of these books," and he said "no ; 
 he wouldn't allow his own son to play the races, and therefore be 
 wouldn't have strange'rs to do it." 
 
 Q. Did you hear after you left there that some more books 
 WQTQ cut? A. I heard there was another cash book cut. 
 
 Q. How long after you left did you hear that? A. About a 
 week. 
 
 Q. Did you know anything about that ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Moriarty employ you for some special services 
 after you had been discharged from there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was it ? A. To fix up a bill; he employed me, and 
 I fixed it up in the stone house, corner of Newark avenue and 
 Grove street. 
 
 Q. Not in the store ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. How long after you were discharged was that ? A. It was 
 early in December ; I know it was the first snow storm of the 
 winter. 
 
 Q. Had that anything to do with the State House business ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. How long were you engaged in that ? J.. I guess a couple 
 of hours. 
 
 Q. Have you ever been employed in the store at all since the 
 time you were discharged on the 8th of November? A. No, 
 sir, never been it. I was in it once the next morning to get a 
 recommend and get some papers. 
 
 Q. Did you get the recommendation ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Some detectives took this matter up, did they not ? A . 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long did they follow it up ? A, They followed it up 
 as long as Mr. Mullins wanted to have any interest in it. 
 
84 EUGENE MORPHV. 
 
 Q. Was it tollowed up after this publication in the " Jersey 
 City News ? " A. No, sir, not as far as I could understand. 
 
 Q. Were you familiar with the purchase of goods on behalf of 
 the State from Mullina & Co. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. By whom were they made for the State ? A. The pur- 
 chasers. 
 
 Q. "Who was the purchaser? A. Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. Did he come to the store ? A. Sometimes. 
 
 Q. When he didn't come to the store how did he order them? 
 A. By telegraph. Sometimes through Mr. Hamilton, too, who 
 was the buyer. 
 
 Q. Mr. Hamilton was connected with the business at that 
 time? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How many times do you suppose Mr. Ford was there with 
 relation to this business? A. I don't remember, but it was 
 quite often. 
 
 Q. When goods were entered in the sales book for the State 
 how were they entered ; perhaps you can find some that have 
 not been cut out ? A. You see the part is cut out there, No. 17; 
 that would have some entries that I would like to show. I will 
 see if one of these books hasn't got one in. Sales book No. 9, 
 pa^'e 996. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to an entry, " State House, Trenton," 
 sevtral items of goods here without any price opposite. Was 
 that the way they were usually made, without prices ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is to the State House ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have any other customer on your books to whom 
 you entered goods in that way? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. This still remains without any prices, does it not? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Can you refer me to some more? A. This book has been 
 doctored since I have had anything to do wi^h it. 
 
 Q. What book do you refer to? A. The first one of the pri- 
 vate ledgers. 
 
 Q. In what respect? A. Prices filled in; it doesn't agree 
 with the sales book. 
 
 Q. That is, the sales book has no prices and the ledger has 
 prices? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now look at these ledger accounts a little further ; page 
 746, same ledger. I see a number of items there, merchandise, 
 without anything carried out opposite? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Refer to those several pages and see what you find on the 
 pages in the sales book ? A. I find marked " See folio 574, new 
 book." 
 
EUGENE MURPHY. 85 
 
 Q. Turn to that folio, if you can find it; what do you find 
 thure? A. No, that is an error; right below " State Plouse"! 
 find it marked "From folios 523, 525, 553, 631, 947, 996, 996, 
 105, 1055, 1080,811." 
 
 Q. Now, that is transferred from other folios in the sales book, 
 is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There are items carried out here, aren't there? A. They 
 have been carried out since I have been out. 
 
 Q. Are they in pencil or ink ? A. Pencil. 
 
 §. Do you mean to say they were not there when you left the 
 firm? A. The footing of the book shows it. 
 
 Q. They are carried out in pencil but they were not included 
 in the footing at the time? A. If they were carried out iu that 
 way when the book was added it would have been added. 
 
 Q. These items on this page foot up how much? A. The 
 items of the State House account alone foots, according to this, 
 $2,879.75, and the total toot at the bottom of the book is $1,315.92. 
 
 Q. Won't you explain to us about this matter of transfer that 
 you have spoken of; when were the items first entered iu the 
 sales book? A. At the time of the placing of the order. 
 
 Q. By whom? A. By Mr. Ford. 
 
 §. And were any prices carried out opposite them ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. "Well, then, what would next happen to the items? A. 
 Well, we used to mark alongside of it under " When sending 
 transfer." 
 
 Q. Who told you to do that ? A. Mr. Moriarity. 
 
 Q. Well, now what did you do in obedience to that note, 
 "when sending transfer?" A. When the goods were being 
 delivered we would do it. 
 
 Q. When they were being delivered to the State you would 
 transfer it where? A. The time of delivery. 
 
 Q. Still in the sales book? A. Yes, right under the heading 
 that you see. 
 
 Q. Did you transfer any of them the second time? A. Yes, 
 
 sir. 
 
 <2. How many times were some of those items transferred? 
 A. Some of those items were transferred three or four times. 
 
 Q. What was the purpose of that? A. That was something I 
 never could understand. 
 
 Q. You did it under directions ? A. Yes, sir ; I was not to 
 ask any questions. 
 
 Q. You marked in the margin "when sending transfer?" 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
86 EUGENE MUEPHY. 
 
 Q. Can you find thera by turning back to some of these folios — 
 see if you can find them now? 
 
 Mr. MulliuE — He is trying to mislead you. He knows 
 that is the sales of the day. 
 
 ^. Xow, Mr. Murphy, refer to this page of which Mr. Mullins 
 has spoken, what should this be — referring to the sales book, 
 page 10, 574, of which Mr. Mullins has just spoken. What is 
 this footing, $1,315.72, at the bottom of the page supposed to 
 represent? A. Sales of that day. 
 
 Q. Well, does it include this sale to the State House that day ? 
 A. No, sir ; those prices were not filled in ; we were told to add 
 it and never mind the State House. 
 
 Q. If those items which are now in pencil there and the footing 
 was $2,300, what would the correct footing of that day be ? 
 A. $3,695.67. 
 
 Q. Were those directions which were given you " Never mind 
 the State House " — did they apply to all State House items ? 
 A. Yes, sir; I am quite sure all. 
 
 Q. Refer to some more items similar to that, if you find any? 
 A. There is one right following that, the first item on the next 
 page. 
 
 q. What is that? A. State House, Trenton, N. J., $1,814.49. 
 
 Q. Are those in pencil also? A. Yes, sir; they are all in pen- 
 cil save the item $8.05 expressage. 
 
 Q. Are they footed in the day's sales? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Are the day's sales footed in ink at the end of the page? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm, to Mr. Mullins) — I see that the date 
 on the book there — on the sales book, is December 31, as though 
 it was the conclusion of the year's business ; those things had 
 been entered there — taken from other pages and entered there on 
 your sales books so as to complete the year, is that the idea ? A. 
 (By Mullins) — I can't state that because I never kept the books, 
 but when I see how the books are kept, he has here $1,315.72, it 
 is carried on $1,315.92. so that means that that is the sales for 
 that day, and so it runs along one day after another. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm, to Mr. Mullins) — My question was why 
 should these entries be on those pages unless it was the last of 
 the year, and therefore you wanted to complete your business, 
 and therefore this addition was made afterwards, isn't it likely ? 
 A. It is most likely that would be the reason of it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm, to Mr. Mulhns) — Why are not those 
 sales added in ? A. (By Mr. Mullins) I don't know, sir ; I didn't 
 
EUGENE MUBPHY. 87 
 
 keep the books ; this was one of the bookkeepers ; he had the 
 books and houses and horses. 
 
 Witness — Yes, and I have got them now, too. 
 
 Q. Why were they not added in? A. Because they were not 
 ther« to be added in. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say those pencil figures were not there 
 when the column was footed? A. That is it; no one was to 
 know the price charged ; that was the object. 
 
 Q. Please refer to one or two other instances ; I don't want to 
 let that matter rest on those two instances ; can you find a third ? 
 A. On page 354 of the same book. 
 
 Q. These are charged also in pencil? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is the total footing to the State? A. $216.50. 
 
 Q. What is the total in the footing at the bottom of the page ? 
 A. $55.10. 
 
 Q. Then the sales to the State are not included in that footing ? 
 A, No, sir. 
 
 Q. Find another one, if you can? A. On the same page there 
 is another — page 354 ; it is marked by my writing, " Mr. MuUin 
 says no charge." 
 
 Q. And no charge is made of it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. That went to the State House, Trenton ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you another; find another if you can? A. On page 
 377 of the same book. 
 
 Q. Carried out in pencil ? A. One item. 
 
 q. How much ? A. $443.50. 
 
 Q. There are several other items to the State here? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. With nothing carried out against them ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that $443.50 footed in the day's sale? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Find another and then we will stop that for the present? 
 A. The next entry is a transferred entry ; it is marked " See folio 
 550." 
 
 Q. Refer to folio 550; is it transferred again? A. No, it is 
 there. 
 
 Q. Is it carried out with any figures ? A. It is carried out 
 with figures in lead pencil. 
 
 Q. Are they added in the day's sales? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Now refer to this ledger; is this your handwriting? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I see a large part of the items here " Charged to merchan- 
 dise." A. Those are the transferred entries. 
 
 Q. And with nothing carried out opposite them at all ? A. 
 Those are the transferred entries. 
 
88 EUGENE MURPHY. 
 
 Q. Then I find a number of others with items carried out in 
 pencil on the ledger ; whose pencil figures are those? A. Those 
 figures are Mr. Moriarty's. 
 
 Q. Were they entered in the book when you left the firm? 
 A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there any other account in that ledger that is kept that 
 way, with the debits in blank? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you keep that ledger so ? A. Because I was di- 
 rected to. 
 
 Q. By whom ? A. Mr. Moriarty. 
 
 Q. Do you know why ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, if you wanted to draw off a trial balance of your 
 books how could you do it ? A. Couldn't. 
 
 Q. Did you make an attempt? A. No, sir; I had nothing to 
 do with those things ; Mr. Moriarty attended to that ; I never 
 saw one drawn while I was there. 
 
 Q. Now, when you came to send the State a bill for these 
 goods, how was that made up ? A. Well, Mr. Moriarty told me 
 to copy all the items off on the bill and marked what they were 
 for anil I did it. 
 
 Q. Did you put any prices opposite ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have anything in the books to guide you to put a 
 price opposite? A. No, sir; I told you what there is there; I 
 notice the price, what the goods cost, is inserted on the inside 
 margin there in a couple of instances ; I noticed that. 
 
 Q. Refer to that. A. I find, on December 11th, 1891, page 
 354, one oak library table that was marked color $9.50 ; that cost 
 $4.75 ; it is charged $9.50; you will fiad one-half of that amount 
 inserted in there is the cost. 
 
 Q. Item on page 354 of book 10. Well, take the next item ? 
 A. One four-drawer antique oak cabinet, color $50. 
 
 Q. What does that mean? A. Cost $25. 
 
 Q. That is billed to the State at— A. .$50, in pencil. 
 
 Q. The next item, one 132 Bailey press, what did that cost? 
 A. Color 120, cost $60. 
 
 Q. How much to the State? A. $120. 
 
 Q. One staud, color 36, and billed to the State — A. $36. 
 
 ^. What did that cost ? ^.$18. 
 
 Q. One dozen 10 to 12 what is that? A. Color 6. 
 
 Q. What did it cost ? A. .§3. 
 
 Q. What is the next item ? 4. One oak revolving book case, 
 color 1306. 
 
 Q. What did that cost? ^1. $6.58. 
 
 Q. It was billed to the State? A. $13. 
 
EUGENE MURPHY. 89 
 
 Q. Now where is the other instance you found of the color? 
 A. On page 398 of the same book, one No. 330, special desk, 
 leather top, color 96. 
 
 Q. What is it charged to the State in pencil ? A. $96. 
 
 Q. What was the cost of that? A. $48. 
 
 Q. Anything else on that page ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Those are the two items you referred to? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that " color " put in on most of the items? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who was that inserted by? A. Well, one instance there I 
 think it was by Reilly, and in the other instance by Frank Mullin. 
 
 Q. They are neither of them then in your writing? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who is Reilly? A. He was a bookkeeper in their employ. 
 
 Q. Now you say in billing goods you made out a list of goods 
 without any prices;, to whom did you give those ? J.. I gave it 
 to Mr. Moriarty. 
 
 Q. Before prices were to be put in and the goods billed to the 
 State, what was done and who did it? A. Mr. Ford was seen. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Ford come to the office, or where was Mr. Ford 
 seen? A. He used to come to the store and Mr. Moriarty and 
 Mr. MuUins, and him which ever would see him — 
 
 Q. And they would see him ? A. They would go upstairs and 
 arrange it. 
 
 Q. You say the prices were then made ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long would they be at that? A. Sometimes a couple 
 of hours ; I have seen them a whole afternoon at it. 
 
 Q. When they came down were the prices on ? A. Well, the 
 prices were on the bills. 
 
 Q. That you had made out ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was next done ? A. Then tuat bill was recopied. 
 
 Q. Who did that? A. Mr. Moriarty. 
 
 Q. And did you see that after it came down sometimes? A. 
 Yes, sir, I used to see them. 
 
 Q. And that bill went to the State, did it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You sent some blanks to Trenton, didn't you ? A. Yes, sir, 
 Mr. Mullin used to take those. 
 
 Q. That was for the purpose of dividing the bills up after they 
 got here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that the bills you sent to Trenton are not the identical 
 bills that would be here now? A. No, sir; they are none of 
 those bills in my handwriting ; I have seen them. 
 
 Q. For instance, this bill of March, 1892, $6,456 ? A. Yes, it 
 is made out by Mr. Moriarty. 
 
 Q. Just take another — one or two — this bill of June, 1892, for 
 
90 EUGENE MURPHY. 
 
 furnishing the Senate Chamber; look over the difterent sheets of 
 it? A. 1 don't know whose handwriting that is. 
 
 Q. Is that anybody's handwriting in your place ? . That is 
 Mr. Moriarty's. 
 
 Q. Which part is that? A. The latter part of the bill; the 
 firsc part is no one in his employ. 
 
 Q. Where is Moriarty's handwriting again? A. Right there 
 (indicating). 
 
 Q. The second sheet is Moriarty's and the next sheet some- 
 body else's ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. February, 1892, furnishing new capitol? A. There is one 
 thing added on here; it is all in the same handwriting which no 
 one in the employ of Mullin excepting the last item, a charge for 
 packing desk, $7 — that was done by Mr. Moriarty. 
 
 Q. What was that for? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. That is put on right over the word " correct ? " A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. After these bills had been corrected and arranged at Tren- 
 ton, did they come back to your store? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was done with them then ? A. They were attached 
 to that form which the State sends, and the affidavit was made 
 on them. 
 
 Q. And did you make a copy of them at your store ? A. Mr. 
 Moriarty had copies of them. 
 
 Q. What was done with those copies? A. They were kept 
 in the safe. 
 
 Q. When that was done did you take that copy and correct 
 up your books by it? A. N"o. 
 
 Q. Who had access to the copy after it came back? A. Mr. 
 Moriarty; the books were left just as they were ; nothing was 
 done with those. 
 
 Q. Refer to the ledger, taking the first one, that is the one that 
 has met with an accident ? A. No, the second is the one that 
 met with the accident. 
 
 Q. The earlier one of the two private ledgers — refer to the 
 State House account? A. Page 402. 
 
 Q. la that the beginning of it? A. Yes, sir; the beginning 
 of that. 
 
 Q. Well, that ledger to a considerable extent seems to be in 
 ink, does it not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Except the footing? A. Well, there are some of them 
 filled out, you notice. 
 
 Q. Any balancing ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. This ledger runs from the first set of items, rather, from 
 January 17th, 1890, to March 22d? A. Yes, sir. 
 
EUGENE MUEPHY. 91 
 
 Q. I see there are two checks passed to the credit of this 
 account ; won't you look at the cash book and see where those 
 are? A. Yes, I find the first cash book is No. 9, and I find on 
 folio 906 one entry State House, Trenton, N. J., $2,391.52; that 
 was March 26tb, 1890. 
 
 Q. Is that the only entry there is about it ; that State check 
 wab passed to the credit of the account, was it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now look at June 20th ot the same year, and see if you 
 find another check? A. Yes, sir; June 20th, same year, folio 
 1049, State House, Trenton, $1,740. 
 
 Q. That was passed to the credit of the account in the usual 
 way, was it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And was posted into your ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That part of the account however has never been balanced, 
 has it ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And new items were entered and balanced below? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But that remains still open without a balance ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Proceed to the next page of the ledger where that is trans- 
 ferred ; I see a large number of items, entirely blank here? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What were those? A. Those are transferred entries. 
 
 Q. And then a lot of very small items, $5, |8 and so on, entered 
 up in ink, what are those? A. Mullins' expenses, $5; two trips 
 to Trenton, $8 ; Hamilton's expenses, $5, $5, $4.50, $4.50, $4.50; 
 Rickard, Trenton, one day, $3; Hamilton, and finally Rickard, 
 Trenton, $7. 
 
 Q. The only items that were carried out in ink are these 
 traveling expenses, are they not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the sales of goods are not carried out on the ledger 
 there at all ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Now look at the- lower part of this ledger — in December, 
 1891, here are carried out a number of large items in pencil? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were those carried out when you had the ledger ? A. 
 They were not. 
 
 Q. Whose handwriting are they in? A. Moriarty's; they 
 were not carried out in November, 1893. 
 
 Q. To what page does that account go ? A. Q, page 747. 
 
 Q. What do you find there ? A. The same state of affairs. 
 
 Q. There are a very large number of items filled out in 
 pencil ? A. Yes, they all seem to be filled out now. 
 
 Q. Whose handwriting are they in ? A. Mr. Moriarty's. 
 
92 EUGENE MURPHY. 
 
 Q. Hamilton's expenses, expreseage, are carried oat, are they 
 not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was that page filled out when you relinquished the books ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Does this go to any other page? A. Yes, sir, 772. 
 
 Q. Now on the last page of this book, 772, appears to be a 
 very large number ot items filled out in pencil ; whose writing 
 is that ? A. Moriarty's. 
 
 Q. Is the rest of the page in your handwriting? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were those items blank when you left the ledger? A. 
 They were. 
 
 Q. Where does this account go to ? A. 17, new ledger. 
 
 Q. Where is 17, new ledger? A. It is cut. 
 
 Q. See if you can't find something in the new ledger that is 
 not cut? A. Page 290 I find the same state of affairs — filled out 
 in lead pencil except the expenses. 
 
 Q. Just for a moment refer back to the ledger that you called 
 my attention to; these items which are filled out in your hand- 
 writing, tell us what they are? A. I find a charge of Mrs. 
 Doyle, sewing at Trenton, $25.39. 
 
 Q. What was she sewing at Trenton ? A. Carpet. The next 
 item is Mrs. Flynu, sewing at Trenton, $12.31. 
 
 Q. What was she sewing? A. Sewing carpet. 
 
 Q. What is that item? A. Expressage, Trenton, 85 cents; 
 Eickard, Trenton, $3. 
 
 Q. Who is Rickard ? A. A carpet cutter and measurer; he 
 isn't a measurer, he is a cutter, but he measured this ; expressage 
 on mats, $3.55 ; next charge, Rickard and six people at three 
 and a half days, at $2 per day; one man two and a half days; 
 Rickard, five people, four and a half days, and Rickard and three 
 people three-quarter day; paid Paul & Ale, that is, hotel keeper, 
 and the items paid are $49, $5, $5, $54 and $6. 
 
 Q. Now refer to the second ledger ; what page have you in 
 the second ledger? A. 290. 
 
 Q. What are the dates there? A. First date, January 17, 
 1893. 
 
 Q. These debits appear to be all filled out in pencil ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. That is, the figures filled out in pencil ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Whose writing is the pencil ? A. Mr. Moriarty's. 
 
 Q. Whose liandwriting are the charges, the dates and the 
 words, " To merchandise." A. Mine. 
 
 Q. And they refer back to pages on the sales books ? A. 
 Yes, sir, where I posted it. 
 
EUGENE MURPHY. 93 
 
 Q. And you posted these from day to day as you would enter 
 them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And posted them in blank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And did that during these two or three or four years ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have yon got any other accounts like that posted in blank? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. All the checks, when they came in from the State, you 
 poEted thoRe in the account right in that book, did you? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then this account appears with a tremendous credit from 
 the State and nothing to the debit of the State ? A. That is right. 
 
 Q. Well, refer to the next folio where this is carried? A. I 
 didn't keep the next. 
 
 Q. That is after you left, in the year 1894? A. Yes,. sir. 
 
 C^. Are the goods still carried out in pencil in the same 
 mnnner? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the credits of the State's checks in the account on the 
 other side? A. Yes, sir; I don't know how in the world they 
 could ever balance them ; I couldn't. 
 
 Q. Well, look at that account; what is the first thing there in 
 the way of a debit? A. The top of the page is footed up 
 $41,795.28. 
 
 Q. Apparently brought forward? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then sorne several hundred dollars in bills added? A. 
 About a thousand. 
 
 Q. What is the credit on the other side? ^. By check $660.42. 
 
 Q. Then, according to that page, the State would seem to owe 
 Mr. Mullins a matter of some $40,000 yet? A. Yes, sir; that is 
 what the books show. 
 
 Q. See if that $41,000 agrees with anything else ; see if it is 
 "brought forward" from anywhere? A. Well, I see it has 
 been added there from one place to the other. 
 
 Q. It is a footing from the former ledger folio, is it? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. But the credit footings have not been carried forward, 
 have they ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you find any charge, with the exception of these small 
 items for expenses entered in ink, against the State of New Jer- 
 sey id these ledgers ; look them over? A. Well, we do from 17th 
 of January, 1890, until the 15th of May, 1891. 
 
 Q. How about after that? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you find in these sales books any of those marginal 
 memoranda which you spoke of " when sending transfer " ; did 
 
94 EUGENE MURPHY. 
 
 you look just now? A. I did find them before; I showed you 
 there a short while ago some of them. 
 
 Q. Just find them again ; it escaped my attention if you did. 
 A. I don't see any (witness examines books). 
 
 Q. Was there any ot'-er ledger kept ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What you call a personal ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that ledger here ? A. They have another. 
 
 Q. What was the character of that ledger ; what was kept ia 
 it ? A. Well, the account with the bank and the amount of 
 money received every day and the amount of the sales every day, 
 and then the accounts of both members of the firm. 
 
 Q. You spoke of telegrams coming from Mr. Ford in regard 
 to this matter ; do you remember a time when a number of tele- 
 grams came from him? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How far apart? A. They were right close to each other. 
 
 Q. Did you preserve the telegrams ? A. Sometimes we put 
 them on file. 
 
 Q. Were those preserved? A. They were kept, I believe, 
 until Mr. Mullins came and saw them. 
 
 Q. Who were they addressed to ? A. John Mullins. 
 
 Q. Were they preserved after he saw them ? A. I don't 
 know and don't remember. 
 
 Q. Did you see them ? A. Yes, sir; I saw the telegrams. 
 
 Q. What were they? A. They were telegrams from Mr. 
 Ford urging Mr. Mullins to meet him. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Ford come after the telegrams ? A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. He didn't come to the store ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Mullins speak to you of these telegrams? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did he say about them ? A. He told me to figure 
 up the amount of money that had been paid by the State ; he 
 said "Barney" was getting impatient and wanted his divvy. 
 
 Q. About when was that, Mr. Murphy? A. 1 can't place the 
 exact time. 
 
 Q. What year was it in ? A. I am quite sure it was 1893. 
 
 Q. Can you by reference to anything in these books place the 
 date ? J.. I guess I will be able to by fiuding a check here. 
 
 Q. Just find it, if you can ? J.. I wish that I had that private 
 ledger ; there are one or two things there I would like to look at. 
 
 Q. That is the personal ledger that you refer to ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; I would like to have that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is a personal ledger which we 
 cannot get here, and I would like to have the Com- 
 mittee direct the production of that ledger. 
 
EUGENE MURPHY. 95 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I will produce it if we have euch a 
 thing ; if we ever had it we have it still. 
 
 Q. What was entered in it? A. The amouat of money the 
 members had in at the time of the partnership, and the ledgers 
 in whieh the cash which was taken in every day is entered and 
 all the sales are entered and the account with the bank ; the 
 amount of cash that was taken in in those torn books is in 
 there, too. 
 
 Q. These private ledgers here do not contain those things you 
 have spoken of? A. No, sir; they are only accounts with out- 
 side people. 
 
 Q. In answer to my last question you said Mr. Mullins had 
 asked you to figure up how much money bad been paid to the 
 firm by the State? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you do it? A. I did. 
 
 §. Did you give the figures to him ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long a period did you cover in making those figures? 
 A. I think I figured all the time in which Mr. Ford had given 
 me orders. 
 
 Q. The first orders given by Mr. Ford — did it cover more than 
 a year? A. I think it did; I am pretty sure it did. 
 
 Q. Think it covered more than a year? A. I did have all 
 those things figured up on page 17, there ; it is too bad that is 
 gone. 
 
 Q. After you had given these figures to Mr. Mullins, what was 
 done? A. Well, he told Mr. Moriarty, and Mr. Moriarty drew 
 a check. 
 
 Q. To whose order? A. I think it was either John Mullins 
 or John Mullins & Co. 
 
 Q. For what: how was the amount arrived at — the check? 
 A. Well, it tallied with the percentage of the amount that was 
 received. 
 
 q. What percentage? A. I think it was 10. 
 
 Q. That is of the figures that you had given? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. Was the check drawn for the exact figures or for round 
 numbers? A. I don't want to swear to figures, Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. If you saw that personal ledger you have spoken of, do you 
 think you could speak? A. Yes; I am quite sure it was round 
 figures, though. 
 
 ^. What was done with that check? A. It was cashed at the 
 
 bank. 
 
 Q. You saw it was to the order of John Mullins or John 
 Mullins & Co.? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Who signed the check ? A. Mr. Mullins. 
 
96 EUGENE MURPHY. 
 
 ^. Who endorsed it ? ^. He did. 
 
 Q. Did you ever see that check again afterwards ? A. I think 
 I did in checking ofl with the others. 
 
 Q. It came back paid, did it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You think if you have the personal ledger you can identify 
 it, do you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Can you remember the amount of the check ? A. No. 
 
 Q. But you think you can identify it if you see the ledger? 
 A Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are you sure whether it was in John MuUins' account, or 
 John Mullins' special account? A. It was in the store account. 
 
 Q. That is the John Mullins account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember an occasion after the State had paid one 
 of its bills that Mr. Moriarty gave you some directions as to en- 
 tering memorandum in the margin of the ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. About when was that? A. I don't remember the date. I 
 had it marked there in the book according to directions at the 
 time. 
 
 Q. What year was it, can you tell that? A. I think it was 
 1893. 
 
 Q. And what was it he told you to put in the margin of the 
 State's account ? A. " Everything paid to here but Barrett's 
 goods." 
 
 Q. Did you put it in the ledger ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In pencil or ink ? A. In pencil. 
 
 Q. Can you refer here to where that was done ? A. It is torn. 
 
 Q. That is one of those that was cut, is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did that refer to ? A. It referred to a dining-room- 
 set sent to Mr. Barrett, of Newark. 
 
 Q. Have you the account of Mr. Barrett in the books ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Refer to the account ? A. That is one of those handy ones ; 
 that is another they have torn. 
 
 Q. Is the name in the index? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What page is it in the index ? A. 39. 
 
 Q. Is page 39 cut out of this ledger? A. It is. 
 
 Q. What was this account with Mr. Barrett, do you know ? 
 A. Yes, sir ; it was a dining-room suit. 
 
 Q. That was all that was charged in it? A. That was all I 
 am quite sure. 
 
 Q. Well, now you say that Mr. Moriarty gave you directions 
 to enter in the margin of the State's account the words you have 
 stated? A. Yes, sir. 
 
EUGENE MUEPHY, 97 
 
 Q. Did you send a bill to Barrett for his own account? A, 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Why not? A. Mr. Moriarty told me the State was to pay 
 it, 
 
 Q. Did you put it on the State's account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Those items you put into the State's account ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; and put it into the next bill that was copied according to the 
 orders. 
 
 Q. Did you put it in as a dining-room table ? A. I put it in 
 whatever the entry called for. 
 
 Q. What was there besides the table? A. I think there was 
 six chairs. 
 
 Q. Was it paid by the State in the next bill ? ^. I guess it 
 was ; I know I marked everything " paid to here " a little later 
 on. 
 
 Q. Did Barrett ever pay his account? A. No, sir; not while 
 I was with them. 
 
 Q. Where was those goods shipped? Did they ever pass 
 through your store ? A. No, they didn't come through the store ; 
 my recollection of it is that they were shipped by one of the New 
 York firms and they were then charged against us, and we made 
 our entry according to the bill which had been sent to the 
 purchaser. 
 
 Q. And you had charged them up to Barrett direct? A. Yes, 
 sir ; I did. 
 
 Q. What did Mr. Moriarty say to that ? A. He told me it 
 was an error. 
 
 Q. And you transferred it to the State House account? A. I 
 did — no, I think I left the entry on that page always showing 
 against Senator Barrett, but I copied it in with the bill at Trenton, 
 
 Q. It went in with that bill ? A. Yes, sir, it did. 
 
 Q. Do you recollect the amount ? A. It was like all the 
 others ; I didn't know any amount ; I couldn't tell you the 
 amount of anything there ; they were not filled out. 
 
 Q. How about in Barret's account, was it filled out there ? A. 
 I don't think it was ; I think it was the same to Barrett. 
 
 Q. Blank ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you recall from whom the goods were procured ? A. 
 I do not. 
 
 Q. When did this occur, as near as you can remember 1 A. I 
 think I can get in between about what times the date of some of 
 those accounts were opened. 
 
 Q. That is where the pages are gone, you mean ? J.. I couldn't 
 tell you. 
 
 7 SH 
 
98 EUGENE MURPHY. 
 
 Q. Can you tell about when these accounts were open ; when 
 was that? A. 'So, sir ; because there were some of those trans- 
 ferred accounts. 
 
 Q. Would this missing personal ledger give you any clew to 
 that? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever see this set of furniture? A. No, I don't 
 think so ; I entered bills there for a million dallars' worth that I 
 never saw ; it wasn't my place. 
 
 Q. You simply entered it under goods that were reported as 
 shipped ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know anything about the value of them ? A. No, 
 sir, I don't remember ; it wasn't very great, I don't think. 
 
 Q. I am requested to ask you this question, whether you did 
 not try to get |200 from Mr. Barrett ? J.. I did not. 
 
 q. From the " New York World ? " A. Do you imagine I 
 would go to the " New York World " to try to get it from Mr. 
 Barrett? You asked me the question and I will answer it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I can't try issues against every person 
 who is mentioned here, and if counsel will make sug- 
 gestions and will write down questions I will put such 
 of those questions as seem to me to be proper. I shall 
 have to exercise my own judgment. If I don't deal 
 fairly with the witnesses I trust that the Committee will 
 see that they are fairly dealt with. 
 
 Senator Daly — It any innocent parties will hand up 
 questions to the Committee, the Committee will ask 
 them from a legal standpoint as to how far they may 
 aftect the credibility of the witness. 
 
 Mr. McDermitt — Of course the Committee is aware 
 that Mr. Barrett is a reputable member of the New 
 Jersey Bar and a former State Senator; and we desire 
 to say to the Committee that the only furniture that 
 ever came from Mr. Mullins was an office desk and six 
 chairs, to Mr. Barrett's office, in Newark, and they 
 were given to Mr. Barrett by Mr. Mullins as part con- 
 sideration for counsel fees and services rendered by him 
 in buying property adjoining Mr. Mullins' property in 
 Mechanic street. 
 
 Witness — It Mr. Mullins owns all that property per- 
 sonally, and if Mr. Mullins made it, why, if they were 
 not made as a present for counsel fees, why should they 
 not be charged against Mr. Mullins as though he had 
 received that amount of money ; why should the firm 
 pay it ? 
 
EUGENE MURPHY. 99 
 
 Q. (By Senator Herbert) — Did those items that Mr. Barrett 
 got go in the State bill? A. Yes; I made them up, and 1 put 
 them in the State bill. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think it will be agreed tbat I have 
 been fair about this. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I think the position taken by you 
 is the proper one; it would lead to endless investigation 
 if we had to try every issue that may be raised herp. 
 The province ot this Committee is one of investigation, 
 and not the trial of those who may be mentioned. 
 Those of us who know you, have perfect confidence in 
 your fairness, and any one who may be brought out 
 incidentally with the extravagance connected with the 
 State House, I feel quite sure in saying that I simply 
 voice the sentiment of all the Committee, that they will 
 be fairly treated; and the course suggested by you, it 
 seems to me, and I think it does to the other members 
 of the Committee, is the only one we can follow in this 
 investigation. It might just as well be known now as 
 hereafter, if, incidentally, some names may be brought 
 out during this investigation, I have no doubt you will 
 be perfectly willing to act upon the suggestions of the 
 Committee and seek to get at the truth, and that is all 
 you want. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I should be very sorry to leave any false 
 record. This fact I have brought out, not at all to 
 touch Mr. Barrett, but because it is an alleged fact that 
 come under my observation which does affect this com- 
 pany and those who are dealing with it. It may all 
 happen and yet Mr. Barrett know nothing about it. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I don't understand that there is 
 
 any reflection upon him. These may have been sent to 
 
 him without his knowledge that they were paid for by 
 
 the State. 
 
 Q. Do you know of other farniture which was charged upon 
 
 the State bills and which went to individuals? A. Well, there 
 
 are two more, but there is one of them I know was not — I am 
 
 quite sure was not, and the other one I don't remember; there 
 
 was a charge on there — the other two, I don't thiok were; I 
 
 rendered the other two bills; I refer to an account of N. H. 
 
 Thompson, 465 Morris avenue, Elizabeth. 
 
 Q. It simply appears on your book as an unpaid account? 
 A. Yes, sir; I rendered that bill, and I rendered the other one. 
 Q. Rendered by mail, or how ? A. By mail. 
 
100 EUGFliTE MURPHY. 
 
 Q. Was it ever paid? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it ever transferred to any other account? A. I don't 
 think it was; it merely remains there; I was directed to send no 
 more bills. 
 
 Q. But you don't say that it was put upon the State House 
 account? A. JSTo, sir; I do not. 
 
 Q. Do you recall the circumstance ot any goods going to 
 Hoboken? A. I find an entry here on the 11th day of March, 
 1890, Leon Abbett, Jr., Jersey avenue and Mercer street, one 
 No. 266 antique oak desk, $100. 
 
 Q. Anything else? A. One screw spring Senate chair, $18. 
 
 Q. Now turn to your ledger account? A. It is originally 
 entered in the ledger as the entry in the sales book is. 
 
 Q. How is that? A. Leon Abbett, Jr. 
 
 Q. What page in the ledger ? A. Folio 440; turning to folio 
 440, it is marked " See page 402, State House account." 
 
 Q. Well, turn to that. A. 402, State House account; I find it 
 is the first item here, and helps to make up the bill of $991, 
 which was paid. 
 
 Q. Look at the bill which I show you, paid February, 1891 ; 
 is that the item on the bill ? A. Tnat is the item. 
 
 Q. Now refer to the sales book, where this is first charged to 
 Leon Abbett, Jr. ; there is an erasure, is there not ? ^4. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was this desk first charged at? A. $85. 
 
 Q. What is it charged at now ? A. $100. 
 
 Q. Do you remember where those goods were sent; is there 
 anything here to show? A. The entry shows that they went to 
 Jersey avenue and Mercer street. 
 
 Q. Leon Abbett, Jr., was the Private Secretary of the Gov- 
 ernor at that time, was he not ? ^. I think he was. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — That is right; it is charged to the 
 State by order of the Governor that was then. 
 
 Q. You have referred us to a number of figures on the sales 
 book which you call color figures? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And which indicate to you the cost of the goods ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Can you refer us to any more in these sales books — to some 
 of these items that are not cut ? ^. I find here in sales book No. 
 7, page 467, April 10th, 1890, two No. 134 antique oak deske, 
 color 200. 
 
 Q. Charged to the State ? A. $180. 
 
 Q. What did they cost? A. $100. 
 
 Q. See if you can find another ? A. In the same book, on folio 
 894, under date of June 10th, 1890, there is a charge which reads : 
 
JOHN MULLINS. 101 
 
 •' State House Trenton, IST. J., one Senate screw spring chair, 
 walnut, $18, delivered to H. M. Negus, Red Bank, N. J., by way 
 of Adams Express from Newark store." 
 
 Q. Whose handwriting is that? ^. Mr. Felner's. 
 Q. Is there any color mark there? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Now find another? A. I find an entry on the 18th day of 
 February, 1891, Book No. 8, State House, Trenton, N. J., 24 
 thirty-six-inch Smyrna rugs, $192, color 12.50, cost $6.25 and 
 charged $8. The next entry three dozen Vienna arm chairs, 
 color 57 a dozen, $162. 
 
 Q. What did they cost? A. $28.50. 
 
 Q. What are they charged at? A. $54; it is marked " from 
 pages 1,040 and 1,076." 
 
 Mr. Corbin asks the Committee to have the books 
 retained, in order that he may examine them, and coun- 
 sel for Mr. Mnllins requests permission to examine them 
 also, which was granted by the Committee. 
 
 John Mullins, recalled. 
 
 I don't know that ever we had any account with Mr. Barrett 
 nor I don't think we have still, nor I don't think it has ever been 
 charged to the State ; that I can't say, but I do know that I served 
 Mr. Barrett with half a dozen chairs and a roll top desk in his 
 office and he sent back and said " send me a bill for them " ; I said 
 " I wouldn't; never mind that, you wouldn't send me any bill for 
 the part you took in buying some property." I had to go to a law 
 suit — the rear of my business place in Newark, Mr. Coles, that 
 was next door, went and made an affidavit — it was an estate — 
 before whoever had it in charge — that I hadn't paid a fair price 
 for it, and that he was willing to pay more and finally through 
 the— 
 
 Senator Voorhees — You got into Chancery? 
 
 Mr. Mulling — It was getting into Chancery, out the 
 
 Chancellor, or whoever it was who had it in charge, 
 
 asked me if I would be willing to give — I had to have 
 
 it — it looked to me at the time as if it was a dodge of 
 
 Coles to squeeze me out of another thousand or two 
 
 dollars ; I think I had to get two or three thousand 
 
 dollars more than what I had originally bought it for. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And Mr. Barrett served you in this 
 
 matter? A. Yes, sir; I came I think three days there and he 
 
 wouldn't take anything, and I says " we will call it square " and he 
 
 said " all right " ; such a thing as ever sending atiything to Mr. 
 
 Barrett's house, I don't know that I did. If I had an account 
 
102 JOHN MULLINS. 
 
 with him it was unknown to me, and I know I wuuldu't allow it 
 to go if it was called to my attention and be charged to the State. 
 I never saw this Senator you heard of last. I know that I never 
 spoke to him ; if I did it was unknown to me, and why there 
 should be a chair sent to him I don't know why it was at all. 
 Mr. Hamilton was coming down here and he might at the time, 
 getting orders from Mr. Ford, and that Senator might be there 
 and he might say well, what are those and whatever the price was, 
 $18 or $20 or $30, whatever the price was, I never knew ; he might 
 say, " send me one of them," and Mr. Ford might say "send it on" — 
 I don't know that he did. I know all about Mr. Barrett's; I know 
 that he got no dining su;t or anything like that from the house. 
 Q. You were not aware that there was an account on your 
 books against Senator Barrett? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Aud that it had been transferred to the State House account? 
 A. No, sir, I did not ; if there is an account there I don't know 
 it ; I don't keep the books any way ; there is charges there and 
 I don't know whether when this man makes a statement about 
 the prices of the goods — I don't know whether he is telling the 
 truth or lies ; I don't think that he knows what Mr. Hamilton 
 paid for the goods. 
 
 Q. I understood him to say those figures were put down for 
 that purpose by the bookkeeper to indicate that? A. I never 
 had anything to do with the making of the price ; Mr. Hamilton 
 and Mr. Moriarty put it down, and it was supposed to go at that. 
 Senator Voorhees — The order is made that the books 
 be taken in the custody of the Sergeant-at-arms, and 
 if Mr. Mullins likes, the Sergeant-at-arms will give him 
 a receipt for them. Mr. Mullins is at liberty, if he 
 wishes, to consult the books while they are in the cus- 
 tody of the Sergeant-at-arms. 
 Adjourned to Tuesday, March 12, 1895, at 10 o'ciock, A. M. 
 
 Trenton, March 12th, 1895, 10 A. M. 
 
 John Mullins, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Voorhees)— Mr. Mullins, the other day you pro- 
 duced two ledgers, marked '• private ledger ? " A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Voorhees)— And you have been summoned to 
 produce the third one, bringing the ledger accounts down to the 
 ^iresent time; have you produced it? A. They will be here in a 
 few minutes. 
 
JOHN MULLINS. 103 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Voorhees) — And also to bring some other books 
 and some checks; will they be here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Are they here in the building, Mr. 
 MuUins? A. They will be in a few minutes; I just sent after 
 them. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In the meantime I would call the atten- 
 tion of the Committee to the fact that there are four 
 checks missing from these checks that were produced 
 in answer to the subpceua, and I have issued a special 
 subpoena for those, JSTos. 11,105, 11,172, 11,093 and 
 12,143, four checks of John Mullins & Company, on the 
 First National Bank of Jersey City. The other docu- 
 ments desired, for which we issued a special subpoena, 
 are the private ledgers of 189-1 and 1895, a continuation 
 of this series, and a personal ledger, so called — are 
 referred to by Mr. Mullins as business ledger, for the 
 years 1890 to 1895. 
 
 While we are waiting for those papers I desire to call 
 the Committee's attention to these books that were pro- 
 duced the other day which were found to be mutilated. 
 I think the mutilation is somewhat more extensive than 
 the Committee were aware of at that time. 
 
 From cash book No. 11, 241 pages are gone, from 959 
 to 1200; cash book No. 12 has 876 pages missing, from 
 283 to 658 ; cash book No. 13 has 488 pages missing, or 
 from 3 to 490. 
 
 These cash books cover substantially the entire period 
 from the middle of 1892 to the end of 1893, and I think 
 it is right that I should call the Committee's attention 
 to the fact that it was during that period that by far the 
 greater portion of Mr. Mullins' goods were supplied to 
 the State and the money paid by the State to his firm. 
 
 The salts book No. 10 has ninety pages missing, from 
 783 to 872; that covers the period of February and 
 March, 1892. Sales book No. 12 has 378 pages missing, 
 covering the period from. November, 1892, to Septem- 
 ber, 1893. The most unfortunate mutilation for us, of 
 all, is the ledger ; the second private ledger, as we have 
 designated it, has 34 pages missing, from pages 9 to 42, 
 the first entries beginning in January, 1892. By refer- 
 ence to the index of this ledger, Mr. Chairman, it will 
 be seen that the accounts which have been destroyed 
 and taken from this ledger are some twenty or more in 
 number. By careful comparison of the index of the 
 
104 JOHN MULLINS. 
 
 ledger all the accounts which were missing can be 
 ascertained, and they are the following : 
 
 Mrs. Hartman's account, on page 9; Mulroy's account, 
 on the same page ; Hugh Dubin's account, on the tenth 
 page, and then follow McQuade, Athletic Club, Reilly, 
 Sacred Heart Academy, St. Francis Hospital, Cleary, 
 Athletic Club, the Board of Fire Commissioners of 
 Jersey City, page 16; the State House account, page 17. 
 The references through these sales books, what are 
 left of them, and cash books, show that that account on 
 page 17 is the account which of all others this Com- 
 mittee would probably like to see, as it has the greater 
 part of the dealings with Mullins & Company with the 
 State. 
 
 Then follows Judge Garrick's accounts, Mrs. Her- 
 bert's, jSToonan's, Col. Heppenheimer's account, page 
 21 ; J. Boylan's account, page 22, and numerous others ; 
 William Wall's account. Rev. Father Hennesy's account. 
 Board of Public Works of Jersey City, page 37; Senator 
 Barrett's account, page 39. But one leaf was taken out 
 after Senator Barrett's account. 
 
 I would very much like to see these other books 
 before we proceed any farther. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think it is well that you 
 should, Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Sentor Daly — These leaves that were torn out of these 
 books don't comprehend alone the State House account. 
 Mr. Corbin — Oh, no ; some twenty accounts. 
 Q. Are these the books ? A. Yes, air. 
 
 Q. Mr. Mullins, you have produced an invoice ledger ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That you were summoned to bring, I believe? A.. That is 
 right. 
 
 Q. And you have produced another book, endorsed ledger ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Beginning in January, 1891, and with same entries down to 
 1895. You were summoned to bring the private ledger following 
 these two — where is it, the one now in use? A. Those are the 
 onlv ones that I know of. 
 
 Q. That is the invoice ledger; that is another thing entirely? 
 A. I beg your pardon, I think it is the bank account and my own 
 account, I believe it is. 
 
 Q. It is endorsed Invoice Ledger ? ^. I think you will ind 
 
JOHN MULLINS. 105 
 
 Mr. Murphy — 3ome of his writing in the le.lger; when he says 
 they are copies I want to contradict him. 
 
 Senator Daly — There should not be any controversy 
 here. Wait until Mr. Murphy is called. 
 
 Q. I asked you to produce the third private ledger, bringing 
 your accounts down to date. "Where is it? A. Well, sir, I 
 brought the very books that they gave me and said those was the 
 books following — the others are up to date. 
 
 Q. That doesn't appear to be here. Do you know where it is? 
 A. I do not, sir; I never kept the books. 
 
 Q. You testified the other day that you had two sets of ledgers, 
 a private ledger, and what you called business ledger, and what 
 Mr. Murphy designated as a personal ledger, showing your 
 account with the First National Bank and your account with 
 your partners and your account with cash. I summoned you to 
 bring that, from 1890 to 1895. Where is it? 4. Mr. Murphy 
 said so, but I believe that I remember saying, as far as I can 
 remember, that if there was such a ledger it was unknown to 
 me, but if there was I would bring it. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say you have got no ledger showing your 
 cash account? A. Yes, sir; there is one there. 
 
 Q. I summoned you to bring your ledger showing your account 
 from 1890; this begins in 1891? A. Well, now, I can't say 
 when these commenced; I never kept the books. 
 
 Q. I call your attention also that your account with the First 
 JSTational Bank here begins in May, 1892, and says " transferred 
 from old book." Haven't you got the other one before that. 
 You haven't anything that shows any account with the First 
 National Bank, nor any cash account? A. Well, I don't know 
 of any others. 
 
 Q. Did you produce the four checks that I summoned you to 
 bring? A. I didn't, because I can't find them, without they are 
 in those. 
 
 Q. What are these ? A. Those are my personal checks. 
 
 (J. This is John Mullins' special account, isn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is your private account? A. Yes, sir; I don't keep 
 any other account but that and a business account; this is the 
 bank and this is part of the others; I had no bank book stubs, 
 because that would go to the bank — 
 
 Q. Where are your books kept at the present time in Jersey 
 City ? A. 121, 123 and 125 Newark avenue. 
 
 Q. Aren't there some other ledgers similar to these in appear- 
 ance there? A. No, sir; not that I know of. 
 
106 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 Q. You raeau to say you don't know where that personal 
 ledger is that shows your account with the First ISTational Bank? 
 A. That is the only ledger I had that has any account with the 
 First Nati ;ual Bank at that time. 
 
 Q. And you don't know where your ledger is that shows your 
 bank account previous to 1892? A. No, sir; I don't, unless you 
 have them down here. 
 
 Q. Who kept your ledgers for you ? A. Mr. Murphy, Mr. 
 Morarity and other bookkeepers. 
 
 Q. Mr. Murphy kept them up to the time he left, did he ? A. 
 I believe partly kept and partly in — 
 
 Q. You say you think we will' find his handwriting in this 
 one 2 A. I think so ; I am not certain. 
 
 Eugene J. Murphy, re-called. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Oorbin. 
 
 Q. In 1893, when you left the firm of MuUins & Co., what 
 ledgers did you keep ? A. I kept the private ledgers. 
 
 Q. You refer to these I have here under my hand ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. "What else ? A. The personal ledger. 
 
 Q. Is that here? A. It is not. 
 
 Q. Anything else ? A. The instalment ledger. 
 
 Q. That is not here, I believe ? Q. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What is that book that is produced here to-day? A. That 
 is the book in which the accounts with the stores are kept, the 
 indebtedness of the different stores to the Jersey City store, and 
 since I have left I find the account of Mr. Mullius is transferred 
 in here. 
 
 Q. Transferred to this account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it kept in there before? A. I see I had transferred a 
 part of it. 
 
 Q. How far back had you transferred it ? A. April 15th, 
 1893. 
 
 Q. See if there is anything in there of Mr. Mullins' previous 
 to that? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. The ledger that you have referred to as the personal ledger, 
 which previous to that shows the acccount with the First 
 National Bank and with the members of the firm, has that been 
 produced here? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. This other book that has been produced ? A. That is the 
 invoice book, invoice ledger. 
 
 Q. I ask you to take this private ledger which has been found 
 
j;UGLEKE J. M^JRPHY. 107 
 
 cut — what day did you leave Mullins & Co.? A. I left there the 
 day after election, 1893; I don't remember what date. 
 
 Q. ISTovember 7, 1893, was it, about? A. Somewhere about 
 there. 
 
 Q. By the index yon will observe that Dr. Baumann's account 
 was on page 36 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Turn to page 36, count up the pages from here to where 
 page 36 was; is there some part of the page left? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Some of the stub of the book is left there since it was cut ? A . 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is the last date entered there in Baumann's account? 
 A. All we can find are the figures of the credit; it don't show 
 the date side; I see 7 50, and then it looks like there had been 
 4 75. 
 
 Q. Can you by referring to tiie other books give us any infor- 
 mation about that? A. Baumann's account? I guess I can; I 
 want the book from anywhere from 1893 on, the salesbook. 
 
 Q. Do you find any posting for that? A. I haven't looked 
 through the book; I haven't looked back through here; I find 
 that something has been entered since I left. 
 
 Q. You say the figures there — are they in your handwriting ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. There has been posting there since you left? A. Done by 
 persons not under his employ when I was there. 
 
 Q. By bookkeepers since ? A. Some bookkeeper who followed 
 me. 
 
 Q. Those last credits are not in the handwriting of any book- 
 keeper that was there when you left, the last one by Moriarty, 
 the one before that ? A. The one before that is by a bookkeeper 
 who came before me. 
 
 Q. Refer, then, to the Board of Public "Works account, page 
 37, and speak as to that. A. I cannot trace that; I might by 
 referring — 
 
 Q. Can you refer to the sales book? A. I will see if I can. 
 On the first day of March, 1894, I find an entry to Mrs. George 
 
 B. Wilson. 
 
 Q. And posted to what page ? A. Posted to folio 24. 
 
 Q. Is that her folio in this ledger ? A. It is. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That is the cut ledger? A. 
 Yes sir ; I find on the second day of March, on page 884 of the 
 same book, March 2, 1894, an entry, " Mrs. Joyce, 571 Pavonia 
 avenue." 
 
 Q. What page is that posted to ? A. 30. 
 
 Q. Proceed to see if you can find any more. A. I find on folio 
 
108 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 885 of the same book aud date an account posted to St. Francis' 
 Hospital, folio 14. 
 
 Q. Was that their tolio in this cut ledger? A. It is. I find 
 on the third day of March, on folio 887 of the same book, an 
 account charged George B. Wilson, posted to folio — 
 Q. Is that the folio in this cut ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Proceed. A. I find on folio 890, St. Francis Hospital 
 again; the date is March 3, 1894, an entry posted to folio 14. 
 Q. That is their folio in this ledger, is it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. By the way, in whose handwriting is that entry and post- 
 ing? A. Some one who came after me. Oh, 14, the entry in 
 the sales book ? Some one who came after me ; the 14 appears 
 to be Reilly's. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — These are all cut pages, I under- 
 stand? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And after Mr. Murphy left the em- 
 ploy of MuUins & Company ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. The point is this : Mr. Mur- 
 phy testified that he left their employ on the 7th of 
 November, 1893, the day after election. This testimony 
 is to show that ttiis book was in existence for many 
 months after that. There are numerous postings to 
 these pages that are in the handwriting of subsequent 
 bookkeepers. 
 
 Senator Daly — Including those pages that are gone ? 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes ; we have a list of all the accounts 
 that are gone. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — And Mr. Murphy is confining 
 his testimony to those pages that are missing? 
 Mr. Corbin — Solely to those pages. 
 Q. Have you another? A. Yos, sir. 
 
 q. What is it? A. March 24, 1894, folio 975, I find an entry 
 to St. Francis Hospital posted in folio 14. 
 
 Q. Have you another ? Please look at this ledger which has 
 been cut. I observe that on these stubs that are still left are a 
 number of dates. Look those through and see if you find any 
 dates left there subsequent to ITovrember, 1893? A. I find writ- 
 ing on page 12; I know that has been done since then. 
 
 Q. Whose writing is it? A. Writing, I think, of the baok- 
 keeper who followed me. 
 
 Q. Is it the writing of anybody who was there when you left ? 
 A. It is not. 
 
 Q. That is on page 12 — has the account of Miss Reilly at the 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. 109 
 
 top and Mr. Waters at the bottom? A. Yes, sir; this was the 
 top account. 
 
 Q. Proceed. A. Oq folio 14 I find five entries of credits made 
 since I have been away. 
 
 Q. That is the St. Francis Hospital account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Proceed? A. I find on page 24 [one figure made since I 
 have been gone. 
 
 Q. That seems to be George Meason's account up at the top ? 
 A. That is the top account; I find in 28 some figures have been 
 made since I have been out. 
 
 Q. That is Reagan's and Higgins' account ? A. Yes, sir ; I 
 find in folio 30 two amounts made. 
 
 Q. That is D. C. Joyce's account? A. Yes, sir; I find on 
 page 35, in Mr. Moriarty's handwriting, date " March, 1894," 
 
 Q. Will you hand that up to the Committee ? A. (Witness 
 did so.) 
 
 Q. Is it the top or lower part? A. The upper account. 
 
 Q. J. F. O'Melia's account? A. Yes; I find in folio 36, top 
 account, two entries made since I have been gone. 
 
 Q. Go on ? A. 40, I find two entries — I find about four 
 entries on there. 
 
 Q. Upper or lower account? A. It is all one account, I think, 
 on that page; then that brings me to where the pages are left 
 in ; that goes through those torn pages. 
 
 Q. Will you please refer to sales book No. 10, page 354? You 
 referred to an item there the other day for sponges ; is this it at 
 the bottom of the page? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (J. The item reads in this way : " State House, Trenton, ]^. J., 
 ouo bale sponges, color 90;" you will have to read those names 
 for me? A. From Isaacs & Heineman. 
 
 Q. What is this mark here — D. M. — what does that stand for ? 
 A. Dan Moriarity. 
 
 Q, Then the following entry of Mr. Mullins says no charge? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Attention was called to that the other day; what does the 
 " color 90 " mean ? A. It means that the sponges cost |45, 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to go back a little in the inves- 
 tigation to call the attention of the Committee to 
 Exhibit 3, which is one of the bills of Mr. Alexander 
 I. Reilly which was produced on the first day's hearing. 
 This shipment of sponges to the State House, December 
 11th, 1891, has the statement, you will observe, at the 
 bottom, " E"o charge." In Mr. Alexander I. Reilly's 
 bill, which Mr. Roilly says he put in for the Superin- 
 
110 EUGENE J. MUBPHY. 
 
 tendenf, Mr. Ford, appears on the next day, December 
 12tli, the followiDg charge: December 12th, 1891, Mr. 
 Reilly's bill contains this itena : "Forty-eight and one- 
 half pounds sponges, best sheep's wool, $121.25," 
 which appears to have been paid by the State next day. 
 Mr. Mullins — Now, your Honor, I don't know 
 whether — 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Mr. Mullins, this does not 
 reflect on you. It shows that a gift by you was charged 
 by Mr. Ford to the State for $121. You were more 
 liberal than he. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I wish it might be understood, Mr. 
 Chairman, once for all, that I am not trying all the 
 people whose names may be mentioned, but I am trying 
 to get at the facts with reference to the expenditure of 
 public moneys fraudulently by public ofBcials, and the 
 expenditure of public moneys for goods which the State 
 never received, and 1 cannot be diverted into every 
 channel to which these names may lead. 
 Q. Will you please fefer to sales book No. 9, page 553? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You referred to an item, the other day, with the name of 
 Mr. Leon Abbett, Jr., connected with it. Where is that item ? 
 A. On the bottom of the page. 
 
 Q. Now, refer to sales book 10, page 574? A. 574. 
 Q. Will you please read this entry in sales book 9, page 553 ? 
 A. "Leon Abbett, Jr., 229 Broadway, New York; one oak desk, 
 color 84; one revolving chair, screw and spring, charged, Far- 
 rell; delivered by McDonald on the 6th day of June." 
 
 Q. Nov, refer to the other item, page 291 ? A. Yes, sir; page 
 291 ; I find it is the transferred entry from that page, and it is 
 charged " one oak desk, color 84, |34 ; one revolving chair, 
 screw and spring, color 18, §18." 
 
 Q. That went to 229 Broadway, did it? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Then this entry shows it was delivered, does it? ^4. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, if the Committee will refer to the 
 exhibit which is already iu, being bill No. 1090, Jan- 
 uary, 1892, State House Expense, they will see that 
 there is a charge to the State for that chair and desk. 
 Q. Now, refer to the sales book 7, page 314 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Read that item of March 11? A. "Leon Abbett, Jr., 
 Jersey avenue and Mercer; one screw and spring Senate chair, 
 I; one 266 antique oak desk, $100." 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. Ill 
 
 Q. Is that the whole oi it? A. Tea, sir. 
 
 Q. To whom was it charged ? A. Leon Abbett, Jr. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If the Committee will refer to voucher 
 
 1215, already in evidence, February, 1891, they will 
 
 find that that is charged to State House Expense. 
 
 Q. Now, please refer to voucher 1090, which is " Exhibit 55 " 
 
 in this inquiry, the first item on the bill paid by the State, signed 
 
 as correct, January 26, 1892, bill for |320.38. The first item is 
 
 the desk and revolving chair sent to 229 Broadway; I think you 
 
 have put that in already, that sales book 9, page 553. Now refer 
 
 to sales book 9, page 911, same voucher. Look for an item there 
 
 of goods that went to Hoboken, please. A. The date is August 
 
 29, 1891, and the entry is "Mr. L. Abbott, Jr., Second National 
 
 Bank, Hoboken, N. J., two Vienna arm chairs, cherry, $7.38, 
 
 making total, $13.83." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The bill to the State on that date for 
 
 these two Vienna arm chairs, $10, and four arm chairs 
 
 at $12. 
 
 Q. Now refer to sales book 10, page 57; find an item there of 
 
 goods to Hoboken, October 26. Head the item, page 57, iu book 
 
 10, October 26. A. It is on folio 57, date October 26, 1891, 
 
 "Leon Abbett, Second National Bank, Hoboken, three cherry 
 
 Vienna arm chairs, $9.75." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — They are charged $15 in the State bill. 
 Witness — Three cherry Vienna arm chairs, $6. 
 Q. "Where did they go? A. Second National Bank. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I call the Committee's attention to the 
 
 fact that on this same bill, voucher 1090, January, 1892, 
 
 which is marked " for office of private Secretary to 
 
 Governor," there occurs not only this desk and chair, 
 
 and these other chairs, but 45J yards Wilton carpet 
 
 for the Governor's Secretary, 27 yards of border, &c., 
 
 all for the private Secretary's office, the total being 
 
 $320.38, there being no such charge in Mullins' books 
 
 either to the State or Leon Abbett, so far as these books 
 
 show. 
 
 Q. Please refer to sales book No. 7, folio 95, and find, also, 
 
 folio 146, in the same book. Read me an item in regard to a 
 
 couch in the Comptroller's office of General Heppenheimer. A. 
 
 January 17, 1890, page 95. 
 
 Q. Read the item? A. " State House, Trenton. Ordered by 
 B. J. Ford, one No. 118 leather lounge for Mr. Heppenheimer, 
 
112 EUGEKE J. MUHPHY. 
 
 Q. I8 that all of it ; have you read the whole ? A. " Shipped 
 on 18th, one sofa." 
 
 Q. ISTow refer to page 146, and read what you find about it 
 there? A. I find under date of January 31, 1890, one No. 118 
 lounge. Col. Heppenheimer, color 45, 50, $80. 
 Q. la the color there ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Those are both entered in the voucher 
 and paid for by the State. 
 
 Senator Skirm — As two separate items? 
 Mr. Corbin — There are two separate items ; yes, sir. 
 (^. They were sent both marked Comptroller's office, were they 
 not? A. Yef, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the item in book 7, page 179, with regard to some 
 desks, marked Governor's desks. A. I find under date of Feb- 
 ruary 8tb, 1890, "Slate House, Trenton, N. J., 2 ISTo. -im oak 
 desks, color 88 each," and they are not carried out. 
 Q. Wo sum carried out? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Now turn to page — ; that means a cost of what? A. 
 Cost $44. 
 
 Mr. Mullins interrupted the witness at this point. 
 Chairman Voorhees — It might just as well be under- 
 stood now, that if you desire to ask any questions you 
 must do it through counsel to the Committee. There 
 is no intention of doing you a wrong or an injustice. 
 Now, you can get it through Mr. Corbin just as well as 
 by annoying the witness. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I thought it was no harm to me to look 
 whose entry it was — whether it was him who entered it 
 or not. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — You might ask Mr. Corbin. 
 Q. Page 183? A. Yesj sir. 
 
 q. What is that? A. I find under date of February 10th, 
 1890, " State House, Trenton, N. J., 2 No. 266 oak desks, $105 
 each, $210." 
 
 Q. Any mark on them as to delivery ? A. They are marked 
 " not delivered." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I call attention of the Committee to the 
 fact that they are, nevertheless, paid for in the account. 
 q. Turn now to February 26th, page 262. A. " One desk, 
 Governor's room, .$95; one desk. President of Senate, $105." 
 
 Q. Is that all the entry with regard to those desks ? Are there 
 not two Governor's desks? A. There is one for Governor's 
 room, one for President of Senate, one for Speaker of the House. 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. 113 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Thoee also are paid for, as will be seen 
 by ledger, folio 402 of the ledger. 
 Q. Refer now to page 183 of that same sales book, with regard 
 to the prices of goods. 
 
 Mr. Corbie — I desire to call attention of the Com- 
 mittee to a few items with a view to show that 
 entirely difterent prices were charged within a few days 
 for the same goods. 
 Q. Item of February 10th, 1890, desk charged at $105, what 
 do you find? A. There is two No. 266 oak desks; I find them 
 charged $105 apiece. 
 
 Q. Now, refer to December 22d, 1890, sales book 8, page 906, 
 what do you find there? A. I find three No. 266 desks, charge 
 $245. 
 
 Q. December 27, page 973, what are they charged? A. I find 
 the desks charged $95, same desk. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Those desks are charged, the Committee 
 will observe, at $105, $81.66 and $95, all in the same bill. 
 A. This desk we have no record of delivery of. 
 Q. How were these desks marked when goods were delivered ? 
 A. Marked "D." 
 
 Q. This big " D " on the item, does that indicate delivery ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I call attention to the State House items here; do they all 
 show delivery? A. No, sir. 
 
 (P., How is the rule? A. About half and half. 
 Q. What did this desk cost as per color entry there ? A. $44. 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, with regard to these color marks^ 
 and the alterations and changes in some of them, I de- 
 sire to call the Committee's attention to sales book No. 
 9, page 996. 
 Q. Look at color marks on certain couches there sent to the 
 State House ; what do you find ? ^. I find here an entry on 
 September 15th, 1891, " Two No. 107 leather couches, color 86 
 each; 12 No. 109 arm chairs, oak, color 231 ; and 12 No. 119 
 side chairs, oak, color 16 each." 
 
 5. Now turn to sales book 10, page 574? A. I find in the 
 transferred entry, to which this first entry refers, the charge for 
 two No. 175 leather couches, and the color has been raised from 
 86 to 126, 
 
 Q. Look at sales book 10, page 429 ; any alteration of color 
 there? A. I find, December 19th, 1891, folio 429, "8 No. 119 
 side chairs, color 128 ; one leather couch, color 86 ; one No. 487 
 top-side leather chair, screw and spring " ; color has been altered 
 
 8 SH 
 
114 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 Q. In whose handwriting is that alteration of the color marks ? 
 A. Party by the name of — 
 
 §. Was that done before or after you left the house ? A. The 
 writing was done by no one who was in the employ of Mullins 
 while I was there. 
 
 Q. You say you don't recognize it — it is the handwriting of 
 some one who was not there when you left. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at pages 558 and 565 ? A. No. 558, " tour No. 105 
 screw and spring office chairs, color $54." 
 
 Q. Whose handwriting is the item in ? A. Frank Mullins'. 
 
 0. The entire item, or the color only? A. The entire item; 
 well, the color looks like it had been filled in since. 
 
 Q. Turn to page 565 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there an item there ? A. \ find, " State House, Trenton, 
 N. J., one special wardrobe, one pigeon-hole case, color 328," 
 charged $328 ; " one No. 55 oak table, 60x32, with drawers, color 
 90, $90 ; one No. 3 four-foot table, leather top, color 34, $34 ; for 
 attorney-general one No. 3 five-foot lable, leather top " ; the color 
 has been altered and made $42, and then the price extended $42 
 
 Q. In whose handwriting is that item ? A. The alteration is 
 in Mr. Moriarty's. 
 
 §. The main item ? A. The main item by a party by the 
 name of Sullivan. 
 
 Q. Was he bookkeeper while you were there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Refer to sales book No. 10, carpet item, page 377? A. 
 " State House, Trenton, N. J., 210 yards 4057 Wilton carpet." 
 
 Q. There are several items corrected here, are there not? A. 
 Yea, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there anything carried out in any of the items ? A. One 
 of them is carried out, $443.50. 
 
 Q. Now, refer to the ledger, page 747, and see how you find it 
 there? A. $373.56. 
 
 §. It doesn't correspond with the other at all? A. It does 
 not. 
 
 Q. These other entries that you find on page 377 ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Is there anything in the ledger to correspmd with them? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 ^. Does the ledger agree with the sales book ? A. It does 
 not. 
 
 Q. Does the sales book agree with the bill ? A. It does not. 
 Mr. Corbin — To illustrate a thing which I could illus- 
 trate a hundred times I will refer to bill 92, voucher 
 1558. If the Committee will lay that ledger and the 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. 115 
 
 sales book aad voucher side by side they will see they 
 have no sort of relation to each other ; although they are 
 the same the prices difler, sometimes bigger and some- 
 times smaller ; there is no sort of agreement between 
 the two booKs; many of the items are blank in the 
 sales book, others are filled out larger than posted; 
 most of the items show evidence of erasure, rubbing or 
 changing. It looks as if the State owed John MuUins 
 & Co. something like $48,000 at present; they are 
 utterly unreliable and they cannot be made to agree, 
 except in the certain items which have been rendered 
 to the State. That voucher is "Exhibit No. 57," voucher 
 for carpet. It is one of many. 
 Q. To show an instance or two of the color marks, and to 
 show that these color marks do indicate the prices, refer to sale 4 
 book 10, page 335. It will be seen that the color mark in thosu 
 cases, the coat mark, as Mr. Murphy explains it, is exactly one- 
 half what the State has paid. A. State House, Trenton, two 
 four-foot desks, color 183.60, charge, $183.60. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That illustrates that the color mark is 
 double the price, and the State is charged twice the cost. 
 Q. 574 is another illustration. A. State House, Trenton; I 
 find here one No. 644 oak desk, closet, five boxes and hat-rack; 
 it had been in my handwriting and I had some memorandum 
 there ; someone has gone over the books or gone over my writing 
 and with a different ink prolonged ray f's so as to obliterate any 
 erasure. 
 
 Q. That is a page of transferred items, isn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Show that to the Committee. (Witness did so.) 
 
 Senator Voorheee — Aren't you giving me a reference 
 to a place where the figures and color are written out, 
 as if that was the proper charge, written in ink ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The color is in most cases the amount 
 of the charge finally made. I think book 10, page 574, 
 will give an instance. 
 Q. In these sales books is it the custom with all purchasers to 
 put down the color mark on this book ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know of any one else except the State and these 
 names to which I have referred? A. Yes, sir; I remember it 
 having been found in the account of Col. Heppenheimer, and 
 Mr. MuUins gave orders for the salesmen, when the goods were 
 sold, to mark the color down so that he could make the price. 
 
 Q. Do you remember any other instances in these saLs 
 books where the color marks occur, except in those two in Mr. 
 
116 EUGENE J. MUBPHY. 
 
 Heppenheimer's account or the State House? A. I guess I 
 cau find them in some other accounts tlian Col. Heppenbeimer's 
 that would be like Colonel Heppenheimer'e. 
 Q. But it is the exception? A. Yee, sir. 
 
 Q. What is that color mark used for in the store? A. It is to 
 guide the salesmen. 
 
 Q. It is placed on the tag which is on the article. It is to 
 guide the salesman in making his price, is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at page 594, account of the Board of Police Coidq- 
 missioners. Do you find the color mark there ? A. I do; I find 
 a charge — the color mark is there opposite their account; yee, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Refer, please, to page 626. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 JSTow, to show the way these books are kept, to give a 
 
 single illustration of the utter unreliability of them, I 
 
 will ask some questions. 
 
 Q. What do you find charged there to the State? A. I find 
 
 charged " State House, Treuton, N". J., three Senate chairs, screw 
 
 and spring, color 63, and burlaps, $1.80." 
 
 Q. That 63 means they cost what? A. It means they cost 
 $31.50. 
 
 Q. Is this posted to some other place ? A. Yes, sir; folio 772. 
 Q. Now, what do you find it carried forward there as? A. 
 $3.75. 
 
 Q. Now refer to the State House bill 2859. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Committee will see that in the sales 
 book this is indicated as color 63, or costing $31.50, be- 
 sides a small item carried to the ledger is an item 
 of $3.75 charged to the State and paid for, $54. There 
 is absolutely no concordance between these in multitudes 
 of these items. 
 
 Mr. Voorhees — Showing also, I think, that the pencil 
 figures were put in afterwards. 
 
 Mr. Murphy — There is no extension at all in the sales 
 book. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — It is carried into the ledger as 
 $3.75, evidently the amount from the top item. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— Now, I desire to call the Committee's 
 attention to one other feature of these books. These 
 items are all included in the bills to the State and paid 
 for; there are no omissions there that I have yet dis- 
 covered. 
 Q. Refer in sales book 10 to several items to which I will call 
 your attention, to show that the State's items were not footed 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. 117 
 
 wlicn those books were footed up; these sales books were footed 
 in ink at the bottom, but these State House item are not footed 
 in? A. The footiags are false as the books now have them. 
 
 Q. Page 655? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What do you find charged to the State there? A. I find a 
 bill of goods amounting to $286.40; that is the amount of the 
 bill. 
 
 Q. Now refer to 673 ; that is not footed at the bottom, is it? 
 A. Yes, this is footed ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that one footed? E,eferto673: I have called your attention 
 to that perhaps for another purpose; that is an instance T think 
 of what the Chairman asked for of an ink entry. A. There is 
 an ink entry of |21 of all the items, the footing carried out in 
 pencil. 
 
 Q. Now, turn to page 673 of the same ledger? A. State 
 House, Trenton, N. J. It is the same thing; the amounts are 
 carried out. 
 
 Q. The items are in ink, the footing, unlike the others, carried 
 out in pencil. Does it appear in the footing? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Voorhees) — Are they carried out in ink? A. Yes, 
 sir ; it is carried out. 
 
 Q. State House item there 47 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that carried out in ink ? A. It is carried out in the first 
 column in ink, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Second column how? A. Blank. 
 
 Q. Does it appear in the footings? A, No, sir. 
 
 Q. Page 690, item $170.80? A. Same thing carried out in ink. 
 
 Q. In the first column, but not in the footing? A. Not in 
 the footing. 
 
 Q. Refer to page 772 of that same book, item of carpets, 
 $7,368, the date is March, 1892? A. That is folio No. 700 of 
 the sales^^book No. 10. 
 
 Q. There is another page charged to the State House, what 
 does it foot up ? A. The total footing is $7,368.22. 
 
 Q. That is carpet for the House of Assembly, voucher No. 
 1557, furnishing the Assembly Chamber. The bill was made out 
 to the State and approved by B. J. Ford, Superintendent, March 
 1, 1892, Leon Abbett, Governor, for $6,556.02. See if you can 
 make it agree with anything that is on the book. Here is a page 
 of items. Do the figures agree in quantity or price? A. Well, 
 the price per yard agrees. 
 
 Q. The total of the bill doesn't agree, does it? A. It does 
 not. 
 
118 EUGENE J. MUKPHY. 
 
 Q. The items are entered up iu an entirely ditforeut way, are 
 they not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Can you verify one by the other at all ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — What is the difference in that bill ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Can't trace it at all ; they are about the 
 
 same sum, but there is uo other agreement between 
 
 them; you can't make them harmouize; it may be the 
 
 same carpet and it may be something else; the bills do 
 
 not appear to have been made up from the books; I 
 
 don't know how they are made up ; in many instances 
 
 don't appear to have been made up at all from the 
 
 books. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Does that bill show the price of the 
 
 carpet ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— How much? A. $2.30 made and 
 laid. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In this particular case there was a bid 
 from Mr. Mullins' firm f jr $2.15 per yard for the carpet 
 and 15 cents for the laying, making $2.30. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I understand in the other con- 
 tract three dollars was charged for the same quality of 
 carpet. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir ; there was no contract, I think, 
 in that case. 
 Q. Refer to sales book 10, 379. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to show how recklessly the 
 prices were made ; this is on linoleum — the different 
 
 prices that are charged to the State House, yards 
 
 of border linoleum, and then transferred to folio 550. 
 Gro to 550. What is the price ? 
 A. The linoleum is charged there at $1.50 a yard. 
 Q. Does this first entry have any quaulity ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. And this one has? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It goes to the ledger in what page ? A. It goes to ledger 
 page 747. 
 
 Q. What did you say the price was here ? A. $1.50 a yard. 
 
 Q. Now refer to other charges here. I think you will find 
 
 them right along here at a dollar a yard for the same. Find 
 
 some private buyers, right along at the same time and see what 
 
 they paid ; it was book 10, 379 and 550. 
 
 (Witness made search and could not find any.) 
 Mr. Corbin — T call the attention of the Committee 
 with reference to these bills to the State for linoleum, 
 part of them $1 and part of them $1.50, and I was 
 
BTTGENE J. MUKPH?. 119 
 
 going to refer to the other items to private individuals, 
 which I think will show 90 cents. 
 A. I have got a credit to the Police Commissioners for lino- 
 leum, laid, which is that linoleum with color, laid, all the way 
 through, and which is twice as dear as the other; they get twice 
 the price for it ; it is charged at $1.88. 
 
 Q. Refer to your sales book 10, page 541. A. I find there an 
 «ntry, State House, State of New Jersey, by way of express 123 
 yards of 4057 Wiltou carpet made and laid $2.30 ; 86J yards 
 border, made and laid, same price. 
 
 Q. The prices are all dowu here, are they not? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q,. Anything carried out? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Now refer to the old ledger, 747, and see what is charged 
 againt this at that date ; merchandise that date and that page ? 
 A. $284.05. 
 
 Q. If that was properly extended what would that item 
 amount to, did you figure it up ? A. $2,738 and odd cents. 
 
 Q. In other words, the entry in the ledger gives no clue to 
 anything on this sales book? A. Absolutely none. 
 Q. On this ledger is this in pencil? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. (Mr. Corbin to Mr. Mullins) — Mr. Mulling, the ledger we 
 want is, first, the continuation of these two ledgers down to the 
 present time; it will doubless be endorsed "Private Ledger." 
 The other is a ledger which the witness described as personal 
 ledger that has an account with the First National Bank, not 
 canvas covered. See if you can find them. 
 Mr. Mullins— I will. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Judge Hoffman, who appears 
 for Mr. Mullins, says that they are perfectly willing to 
 produce that book if we can sufficiently describe it. 
 Does Mr. Mullins understand the book that we want ? 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I do not, sir; I understand that it is 
 
 about the size of that, but not canvas on it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm to Mr. Mullins)— Allow me to ask Mr. 
 
 Mullins ; doesn't your bookkeeper know your personal accounts 
 
 just as clearly as any other bookkeeper? A. (By Mr. Mullins) 
 
 I suppose so. 
 
 Sentor Skirm — Yes ; therefore you will simply tell 
 him that you want your personal ledger and he will 
 know what you mean ; he will know, if you don't. 
 Mr. Mullins — Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is another ledger which I want 
 which is a continuation of that series. Those two 
 ledgers look very much alike and they are marked 
 
120 EUGENE J. MURPHY, 
 
 " Private Ledger," but they don't bring the accounts 
 down to the present time ; the other one is a personal 
 ledger. 
 
 Judge Hoffman-^lf you will let me know what you 
 want we will get them. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — You cannot certainly misappre- 
 hend the book we want. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think it is understood now. 
 Q. Refer to page 565, there are one or two more in this book ? 
 A. State House, Trenton. 
 
 Q. What have you got there, anything carried out ? A. Well, 
 I have a few items carried out. 
 
 Q. Refer to page 747 of the ledger and see how it is there. 
 Now, on your sales book, part of the items are carried out and 
 part not, aren't they ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How is it on the ledger? A. Well, he has the amounts 
 carried out here in the ledger, $453, $494 and $192. 
 
 Q. All on that page ? A. All on that page ; most of them 
 carried out, and the ledger shows — the sales book shows only 
 $494 and $192. 
 
 Q. And is this sales book marked as properly posted in the 
 ledger? A. Yes, sir; it has been properly posted. 
 
 Q. The postings in the ledger are in pencil ; the carrying out of 
 the amounts are in pencil ? A. The amounts are in the ledger in 
 pencil. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think the Committee's attention was 
 called to that the other day ; in the ledger the carrying 
 out of that book is all in ink with the exception of those 
 in pencil or else in blank ; the rest of the page, from the 
 word merchandise, is all in ink. 
 Q. One other item; that is the matter of carpet linings. Look 
 at sales book 10, page 577. This item is under the head of ven- 
 tilating Senate Chamber. A. I find on folio 577, book 10 — 
 
 Q. What are the carpet linings charged at? A. Carpet linings 
 are charged at, some instances 10, some 12 and some 12J. 
 
 Q. What do they charge private individuals on the opposite 
 page. Look at Farrell's account. A. Six cents. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — So the Senate won't misconstrue the 
 construction, there are tour different qualities of the 
 article. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — And they vary about halt a cent 
 apiece. 
 Q, What is the entry to the State? A. The State entrv is two 
 
EUGENE J. MUKPHY. 121 
 
 jolls, No. 358 Wilton, 47^ and 47 yards, and 1,200 yards carpet 
 lining. 
 
 Q. How much ? A, Ten cents a yard. 
 
 Q. What is on the other side? A. Twenty-nine yards felt 
 lining, six cents a yard. 
 
 Q. What is the difference in the price ? A. Four cents — you 
 mean the wholesale price ? 
 
 Q. What is the difference in it? A. 1 don't know as there is 
 any difference iu price. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — A fraction of a cent? 
 A. If that was what he alludes to as the better grade, a fraction 
 of a cent. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do I understand Mr. Murphy to say 
 that that charged at 6 is a better quality than that charged at 10 ? 
 A. 'No, it is just as good. One is supposed to be moth-proof, and 
 the other breeds moths; I believe this is a cotton lining under- 
 neath here, and that will breed moths. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I submit, Mr. Chairman, this ledger 
 runs up, and the account is marked transferred to the 
 new ledger, to such a page, and the ledger that the 
 Committee want is the ledger now in, use, and the book- 
 keeper certainly knows what we want, and all they 
 have got to do is to telephone and get it here. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I. haven't any bookkeeper at present; 
 I, have ,only two boys. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Who has charge of the books? 
 Mr. Mullins — I have only two boys now. 
 Chairman Voorhees — If they are bright boys, such as 
 Mr. Mullins keeps, I think they can find them. 
 
 Mr. Mullins (indicating Mr. Murphy) — This seems to 
 be a bright boy, and he kept the books to suit himself. 
 Mr. Murphy — I kept them to suit you and Moriarty. 
 Chairman Voorhees — Those reflections, in view of the 
 statements that have been made and corroborated and 
 proved by the books, will have no eff"ect; jou cannot 
 get away from those books. 
 
 What is the pleasure of the Committee with reference 
 to the production of the books that were plainly called 
 for in that subpoena ? Mr. Mullins had it explained to 
 him just exactly the ledger that we wanted, and any 
 person of ordinary intelligence certainly would not have 
 made a mistake ; to-day he comes here and hasn't them. 
 There is a law, Mr. Mullins, did ycm know, introduced 
 at this Legislature and approved by the Governor on 
 
122 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 the 5th li March, which said that any witness who 
 kuowingly and willfally violated the demands of the 
 subpoeaa made himself liable to indictment of a 
 misdemeanor? 
 
 Mr. Mullins — Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — In view of that fact, if I were 
 you I would exhaust every remedy in my power to pro- 
 duce those books hero by half-past one — no, that is 
 hardly fair to you, half-past one — this afternoon. 
 
 Senator Skirm — All they have got to do is to send a 
 messenger for tliose books. It is important for this 
 Committee to have them, to continue this investigation. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would like to have the Committee's 
 order include those four checks. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I don't know anything about them. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — It is very mysterious that those 
 checks would disappear when we have hundreds and 
 thousands ol others here. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — Those checks must have come just as 
 they came from the bank. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — They must have been taken out, 
 Mr. Mullins. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — If they was, I didn't take them out. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — They are missing, and it is a very 
 suspicious circumstance, to say the least, that when this 
 Committee wants four checks they are missing, 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I see it; I undestand that; I see the 
 gravity of it myself. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — As a good business man, and a 
 man who values his reputation, Mr. Mullins, you ought 
 to aid this Committee. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I am, in all that I possibly can. I 
 brought the books, at first, all that I supposed that Mr. 
 Corbin told me to bring; I produced ledgers, bank 
 books and vouchers ; I got the subpoena half-past nine 
 at night ; I had to be here at twelve o'clock next day ; 
 I come down, and I looked and I brought every book 
 that I supposed — 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — You are entitled to credit for 
 having so promptly responded to the subpcena, but it is 
 very unfortunate that the very book of all books that 
 we wanted, those who prepared the books for you 
 neglected to send along. 
 
EUGENE J. MUKPHV. 123 
 
 Mr, Mullins — All that I can answer you is that that 
 book — by what I could find out from Mr. Murphy's 
 remark the other day, that book is kept in the inner 
 safe, and Mr. Moriarty has the combination of that. 
 
 Mr. Murphy — I never said so. 
 
 Mr. Voorhees — That doesn't appear in the evidence. 
 There is a statement that these were kept in the vaults 
 in the safe ; as a matter of fact, they were not in the 
 vaults when those books were cut. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I was mistaken in that. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — What is the pleasure of the 
 Committee as to the production of this ledger and these 
 missing checks. 
 
 Senator Daly — How long have these checks been in 
 the possession of the Committee, all these checks? 
 
 Mr. Mullins — Since the time you told me to bring 
 them here, last Friday morning. 
 
 Senator Daly — You delivered all the checks over 
 then? 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I did, sir; all that I knew of. 
 
 Senator Daly — You haven't had any control over the 
 checks since, either directly or indirectly' 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I have had no control over them either 
 before or after. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Now, that no insinuations may 
 rest upon Mr. Murphy, the witness, it is but fair to state 
 that those checks have not been examined by any one, 
 except in the presence of two others. Two of those 
 men, Mr. Mullins, we have confidence in, and it is not 
 fair that one of this Committee should, by innuendo, seek 
 to lead the Committee to infer that Mr. Murphy had 
 made away with the checks that we have been seeking 
 for, and which he has asked us to have produced. 
 
 Senator Daly — I ask Mr. Corbin who has had charge 
 of these checks ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Clerk of the Committee and Captain 
 Graham, and a special watchman over night. They 
 were not examined until yesterday. 
 
 Senator Daly — Who examined the checks ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I, personally, some oi them ; the Clerk 
 and Mr. Murphy together. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I went over the checks with 
 Mr. Murphy yesterday afternoon. 
 
124 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 Senator Daly — I don't insinuate; I only, a8 a lawyer, 
 suggest that they have gone through a great many 
 hands. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — The only hands they have gone 
 through, except those named by Mr. Corbin, are the 
 counsel for Mr. Mullins himself, and we might just as 
 well impugn to that gentleman that he had stolen the 
 four checks. 
 
 What is the pleasure of the Committee ? 
 
 Senator Skirm — I would suggest that Mr. Mullins be 
 required to produce these two ledgers — the one ledger 
 that is the key of the situation, this afternoon; he knows 
 and his men know, evidently, or any bookkeeper knows, 
 the ledger that we want. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — I second that mocion, and move 
 that we use all the power in our possession to find these 
 books at once. 
 
 Senator Daly — Mr. Mullins, you have no objection to 
 producing these books ? 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I have not. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But he has not produced them. 
 
 Senator Daly — The ledger that you have in use in the 
 store and your own personal ledger with your personal 
 account ? 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I don't use it at all. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Your bookkeeper does. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I don't know whether he does or not. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — "We understand, Mr. Mullins, 
 in the vast business you transact you cannot bother with 
 little matters of bookkeeping. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But you watch them nevertheless. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — Would Mr. Corbin or Mr. Murphy show 
 me what stubs of the checks you want. 
 
 Chairman Vooriiees — It is the pleasure of the Com- 
 mittee, Mr. Mullins, and they direct me as their chair- 
 man, to require you to produce those books here this 
 afternoon. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — Shall I start off after them. 
 
 Senator Skirm — No, sir ; telegraph or telephone, and 
 you can get them, sir. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — Have I got a personal ledger with no 
 canvas on it? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — 'Mr. Murphy, can you describe 
 the book you want ? 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. 125 
 
 Mr. Murphy — It is the book which went into use 
 when the partuerehip was commenced, and it shows the 
 amount of money which Mr. Mullins had in the firm 
 and the amount which Mr. Moriarity had in the firm ; 
 and aside from that, the personal ledger that is wanted is 
 the ledger in which I see Mr. Sullivan had transferred 
 from this last one to here on Mr. Dickinson's account to 
 " See new ledger, page 117;" that is the continuation 
 of this. Mr. Sullivan is the bookkeeper, and a good 
 bookkeeper ; he will know what is meant. 
 
 Mr. Mulline — Such u thing as Mr. Moriarity ever 
 having a dollar in the concern never happened, so that 
 I don't believe there is any such ledger in existence. 
 (Addressing Mr. Murphy) — You say that Mr. Sullivan 
 will know which it is? 
 
 Mr. Murphy — Mr. Sullivan carried it forward to that 
 book. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Then you will try to get those 
 books here by telegraph or telephone ? 
 Mr. Mullins — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — By telegraph or telephone? 
 Mr. MuUiue — Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Any expense attending this 
 you will understand the State will make good to you. 
 
 Mr. Corbie — I desire to take up a little different 
 phase of those same accounts which will appear by the 
 checks and check books. And first I will ask this wit- 
 ness to refer to check stub No. 9521. 
 Q. I show you stub of check book produced by Mr. Mullins, 
 No. 9521 ; in whose handwriting is the stub? A. In Mr. Moriar- 
 ty's. 
 
 Q. I will read the stub. " July 19, 1890, cash, $239; " figures 
 carried out, " $239, Ford." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I now desire to draw the attention of 
 the Committee to voucher No. 1800, of March, 1890, 
 being "Exhibit 51," being a State House bill paid to 
 Mullins & Company, of $2,391.52. It will be observed 
 that the check to which I have called attention is exactly 
 10 per cent, of this amount, rejecting the $1.52, and I 
 will ask the Committee to bear in mind the $1.52. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand that the name 
 " Ford " appears in this handwriting ? 
 Q. In whose handwriting is the word Ford? A. Mr. Moriar- 
 ty's. 
 
126 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 Senator Ketcbam — Have you the stubs of the four 
 checks that are missing ? 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. 
 Q. In whose handwriting is the body of the check? A. In 
 Mr. Moriarty's. 
 
 Q. In whose handwriting is the signature, John Mullins? A. 
 John Mullins'. 
 
 Check offered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 92." 
 Senator Voorhees — It is payable to cash. 
 Mr. Corbin — It is payable to cash, and bears no 
 endorsement, but it is cut as being paid. 
 Q. Reter, Mr. Murphy, to stub check No. 10148, dated March 
 23, 1891 ? vl. I find it is a check drawn to the credit of Mullins 
 & Co., $200, and marked "F. F." 
 
 Q. In whose handwriting is the stub? A. Mr. Moriarty's. 
 Q. In whose handwriting are the F'a? A. Mr. Moriarty's. 
 Q. Find the check? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — And while he is finding the check, will 
 
 you please refer to the ledger account to the State 
 
 House ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you it there; refer to the ledger, 402? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. About the middle of the page I find a dash under certain 
 
 charges, and the words " to here." Who wrote that? A. Mr. 
 
 Moriarty. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, if the Committee will look at this 
 pasre of the ledger, they will see that the next bill paid 
 by the State, after the one to which I have referred, is 
 $1,740; it is voucher 2855, of June, 1890. If the Com- 
 mittee will suffer me to draw their attention to that, to 
 the $1,740 paid by the State, if you will kindly put that 
 down and add it to the $1.52 which we found above, on 
 which no 10 per cent, seems to have been checked yet, 
 and if you will add the items down to here, you will 
 find they are $334; add those altogether; the total is 
 $2,075.52; now, rejecting the fractions of $75.52, you 
 will find the check that I have just offered in evidence 
 is 10 per cent, of the balance; here is the $1,740 
 voucher paid. The Committee will still bear in mind 
 the fraction on which there ia no commission paid. 
 This check, if the Committee please, is No. 10148, 
 endorsed "Mullins & Company, D. M.; John Mullins, 
 per D. M." 
 Q. Whose endorsement is that? A. Mr. Moriarty's; both 
 endorsements. 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. 127 
 
 Q, And the check cut as paid? A. Yee, sir. 
 
 Check and stub ofiered in evidence, the stub marked 
 "Exhibit 94," and the check "Exhibit 95." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The next account paid by the State is 
 $991, and I think the Committee may well have the 
 ledger before them, folio 402; but out of that $991 that 
 was paid, the Committee will please bear in mind that 
 $334 has already been footed in down here; take that 
 out of $991 and the balance is $657. Now, if the Com- 
 mittee will, kindly put down the fraction we had, $75.52 
 first, then $657. The next bill paid by the State was 
 $645.75, which is the voucher of May 21, No. 2629. 
 Now, turn forward in the ledger — Mr. Murphy, will 
 you show the next entry, pencil entry, that is erased in 
 the ledger? — the Committee will see that there is a 
 pencil erasure something like the entry " to here," 
 shown before ; yon will see that there is $'Z00 more 
 there to be added down to there, with the entries just 
 $200; kindly add that $200 to what you have on the 
 paper. The total, I make it, is $1,578.27. 
 Q. Will the witness kindly refer to check No. 10,346, or the 
 stub first? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In whose handwriting is the stub? A. In Mr. Moriarty's. 
 Q. In whose handwriting are these letters " Fo ? " A. Mr. 
 Moriarity's. 
 
 Q. Stub reads, then? A. " 10,346, June 6, 1891, John Mulling, 
 $158, Fo." 
 
 Q. Find the check. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I draw the attention of the Committee 
 to the fact that that check i^ exactly 10 per cent, of the 
 amount due from the State down to this date, all but 17 
 and a fraction cents. 
 
 I am sorry that I am unable to pursue the line of 
 this investigation further because of the missing pages 
 in the ledger which have the larger items in. 
 
 The stub last referred to is marked " Exhibit 96 " and 
 check "97." 
 Q. In whose handwriting is the body of it? A. In the writ- 
 ing of Mr. Moriarity. 
 
 Q. Whose is the signature of John Mullins? A. Both places 
 by John Mullins. 
 
 Q. And the endorsement by John Mullins? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Please refer to the stub ot the check, 11,324? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In whose handwriting is the stub? A. Mr. Moriarty's. 
 
128 EUGENE J. MUKPHY. 
 
 Q. I read from the stub 11,324: "June 11, 1892, John Mul- 
 lins, $1,500," carried out $1,500, and with a very palpable era- 
 sure, which I would like to have the Committee examine. Is that 
 check here ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence the stab to which I 
 have just called attention, also the check, marked " Ex- 
 hibit 98 and 99." 
 Q. In whose handwriting is the body of the check ? A. Mr. 
 Moriarty. 
 
 Q. Who signed and endorsed it ? A. Mr. Mullins. 
 Q. The check is to the order of Mr. John Mullins, $1,500, 
 June 11, 1892. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Just previous to that date and about 
 June 3, 1892, and on a few previous dates also, a large 
 number of bills were paid to Mr. Mullins by the State. 
 1090 voucher, January, 1892, $141.38; voucher 1406, 
 February, 1892, State House expense, and this second 
 voucher 1406, $1,623.49; 1558, March, 1892, State 
 House expense, $1,739.41 ; voucher 2859, June, 1892, 
 State House expense, $3,970.29 ; voucher 3860, same 
 day. State House expense, $627.06; voucher 1557, first 
 item, March, 1892, for furnishing Assembly Chamber, 
 $6,456.02; voucher 2861, June, 1892, furnishing Assem- 
 bly Chamber, $3,615.43. Then, to another account, 
 1148, February, 1892, furnishing new Capitol, $2,758.30, 
 and finally 2862, June, 1892, furnishing new Capitol, 
 §630.69. Total of those payments, made within a very 
 brief period, $21,562.07. 
 
 These items necessarily cease at this point because the 
 pages are gone out of the ledger to which the account 
 was carried. 
 
 These three items that I have called attention to are 
 consecutive ; they are on the occasion of three consecu- 
 tive payments by the State. 
 
 I call the attention of the Committee to the stub- 
 check 11,105, dated March 23, 1892, to John Mullins & 
 Co., $300, which has an erasure and a blot so extraordi- 
 nary that I would like to have them examined by the 
 Committee, luid they can judge better than I whether 
 it is also recent. That check is missing. 
 Q. Look at that, witness, and say whose handwriting is on the 
 stub? A. That is Mr. Moriarty 's. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The stubs of the other missing checks, I 
 
129 
 
 think, will be fouud there if the Committee would like 
 to see them. The next number is 11,172. 
 
 Senator Yoorhees — Mr. Daly asks where is the check 
 corresponding to stub 11,105. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I wish I knew ; I don't know ; these are 
 the missing checks; 11,093 is another. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — 11,105, one of the missing checks, 
 $300; 11,172, missing cheek, payable to the order of 
 John Mullins, $5,000, and 11,093, John Mullins & Co., 
 $900. These checks, I understand, Mr. Corbin, the 
 numbers we have just mentioned, are missing? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Those are missing. 
 
 Senator Daly — Mr. Corbin, do I understand that that 
 $1,500 was one of the missing checks, alleged to be 
 missing ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think not. 
 
 Senator Daly — What are the missing checks ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The missing checks are 11,105,11,172, 
 11,093 and 12,143. I think the last one ie a canceled 
 check; the stub shows it; that is not important; but 
 there is one there that is missing that I did not summon 
 Mr. Mullins to bring, which has been referred to here. 
 That is 11,041, $900. The others are in the subpoena. 
 Eecess. 
 
 Louis H. McKbe, sworn. 
 
 Direct examination by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your business "> A. I am the manager of the New 
 Jersey School and Church Furniture Company. 
 
 Q. How long have you been manager of that company ? A. 
 About 8 years. 
 
 Q. How long have you been in the furniture business ? A. 
 Over twenty years. 
 
 Q. Manufacturing furniture ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And selling? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you made an examination of the furniture in the 
 State House at the present time 1 A. I have. 
 
 Q. And have you made an estimate of the value of it ; that is, 
 what it could be purchased for 1 A. A good part of it, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is the furniture in the State House — is it specially 
 made furniture or is it what is called stock furniture, which can 
 be bought from catalogues ? A. 1 find many of the desks 
 
 9 SH 
 
130 LOUIS H. m'kbe. 
 
 regular make, stock make — of course there are a few special 
 make articles. 
 
 Q. This President's desk, for instance, in the Senate, that, I 
 suppose, is a special make ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But is not a greater part of all the farniture stock make 
 goods ? A. It is, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And such farniture as you can find pictured in these pub- 
 lisher's catalogues of furniture ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And with trade discounts and all that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now I hand you a copy of the bills of MuUins & Co. against 
 the State, which you have in your hands. I have copied all the 
 bills in this typewritten copy, which is much more convenient 
 for the witness' use than the original bills, but it is a verified copy 
 of the original bills. Will you refer to that aa I draw your atten- 
 tion to the different items. Take the bill approved February 
 10th, 1891, for example. The first item upon it is an oak desk, 
 Leon Abbett, Jr., |100. What can that be bought for at retail? 
 A. $45. 
 
 Q. After that a chair, $18; how much? A. |10.50. 
 
 Q. There are a good many of those §18 chairs in the State 
 House, are there not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you see one here like it; can you show us what those 
 are? A. I think you will find one in the back room; they are 
 a cane bottom, high back. 
 
 Q. Without waiting for the chair, what can they be bought for 
 at retail, by the one? A. |10.50. 
 
 Q. The next is an oak desk for the Dairy Commissioner, $90 ; 
 what can that be bought for at retail? A. $40. 
 
 Q. Ad oak desk in Prof. Smock's office, $85 ; what can you 
 buy that fi)r? A. $35. 
 
 Q. In the Clerk in Chancery's office two chairs at §36 ? A. 
 §10.50 apiece; $21. 
 
 Q. In the Attorney- General's office, Mr. Johnson's oak desk, 
 $90 ; what can you buy that for ? A. $45. 
 
 Q. And his chair for $18? A. $10.50. 
 
 Q. These $18 chairs which go with these desks are all alike ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that one of them that we see in the background here ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got it on the catalogue here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is the identical article, is it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The oak desk for the President of the Senate, $95 ; what 
 can you buy that for at retail ? A. $38. 
 
LOUIS H. m'kEB. 131 
 
 Q. And the oak desk for the Secretary of the Senate at 
 what can you buy that for? A. $40. 
 
 Q. These prices you are giving me are what you would sell 
 them for to a retail purchaser, are they ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Take the bill which was marked " correct," June 2d, 1890 ; 
 the first item on it, a desk for the Superintendent of the State 
 House, $85; what might that be bought for? A. $35. 
 
 Q. Sixteen chairs in the Supreme Court room, $18 apiece; 
 what can you buy them for ? A. 10.50. 
 
 Q. A desk for the Speaker of the House, $110; what can you 
 buy the Speaker's desk for? A. $55. 
 
 Q. That is the retail price of it, is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Two couches for the Executive Chamber, $170 ; what is 
 the retail price of those? A. $55 apiece. 
 
 Q. $110 for the two? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Four revolving book-cases in the court-rooms, charged 
 $140; what is the retail price of those? A. $20 apiece, $80. 
 
 Q. A desk in the Commissioner of Banking and Insurance 
 office for $110; what is the retail price of that? A. $45. 
 
 Q. Five oak office chairs it the Treasurer's office, $150 ; what 
 is the retail price of those ? A. $16.66. 
 
 Q. That is $88 for the whole ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Two Senate chairs in the Comptroller's office, $42 ; what 
 is the price of those? A. $21. 
 
 Q. Six oak arm leather chairs in the Treasurer's office, $138 ; 
 what is the price of those? A. $14 apiece. 
 
 Q. About $84 for all? ^. $84 for all. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Without going into every item, I wilt 
 submit this paper, with the Committee's consent. I will 
 call attention to a few more items. 
 
 Q. Four special desks, with closed backs, in the Treasurer's 
 office, $384; what are they worth ? A. $40 each. 
 
 Q. $160 for all ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. A wardrobe, 3 feet 6 by 7 feet, in the Treasurer's office, 
 $140; what is that? A. That is special ; I have made it at $75. 
 
 Q. Is that a fair retail price for it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. One book-case, 4 feet by 7, in the Treasurer's office? A. 
 That is also special ; I have placed it at $70. 
 
 Q. A special desk, with a roll-top, in the Comptroller's office, 
 $112; what would be a fair price for that? A. $55. 
 
 Q. And the next item, special desk with a closed back for 
 Comptroller's office at $96 ? A. |45. 
 
 Q. And a chair in the Treasurer's office at $44 ; what is a fair 
 price for that? A. $22. 
 
132 
 
 Q. Retail? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Next item, roll-top desk in the Treasurer's office, $120; 
 what is a fair price for that ? A. $50. 
 
 Q. Do you find in the State House all the furniture mentioned 
 in these bills ? A. No. 
 
 Q. For instance, in the Assembly Chamber and committee 
 rooms ; how many roll-top desks do you find charged here to the 
 Assembly and committee rooms ? A. The Assembly, twelve 
 roll-top, and I find six. 
 
 Q. There are twelve charged and you find six now there ? A. 
 Yes, sir; those are roll-top desks. 
 
 Q. Four oak wardrobes in the Supreme Court room, charged 
 at $600, marked " Special " ; what do you estimate a fair retail 
 price for making those? A. $400. 
 
 Q. And sixteen arm chairs for the judges at $368 ; what do 
 you estimate for them? A. $16 each — $266. 
 
 Q. Look at the bill approved May 81st, 1892, the second item 
 in it : flat-top desk, leather top, for Clerk's room of the House 
 of Assembly, $96 ; what could that be bought for ? A. $40. 
 
 Q. And the next item, another table for the Clerk's room of 
 the Assembly, $60 ? A. $30. 
 
 C}. An oak table, 10 feet by 87 inches. Journal Clerk of the 
 House, $100; what could that be bought for? A. $50 for it; 
 $5 a foot. 
 
 Q. Those plain tables, they are of different lengths, about 
 here ; how do they come, by the lineal foot, or how ? A. By the 
 lineal foot. 
 
 Q. Is there anything particularly expensive or difficult about 
 them? A. No. 
 
 Q. Two flat-top desks, leather top, 4 feet 6 by 33 inches, 
 engrossing room, $192; what do you estimate the value of 
 those ? A. $80 for the two. 
 
 Q. An oak roll-top desk in the engrossing room of the House 
 of Assembly, $186; what is the value of that? A. $48. 
 
 Q. These figures that you are giving us, do they allow reason- 
 able margins of profit for the dealer? A. They are what you 
 can go into a furniture store and buy them at. 
 
 Q. Buy one at a time ? A. Single one ; that is the basis I 
 worked on. 
 
 Q. An oak-top cloth 6-foot table in the engrossing-bills room, 
 $60; what is the value of that? ^.$30. 
 
 Q. Next, one screw table, judiciary room, $60; what is 
 the value of that? ^4. $27. 
 
LOUIS H. m'kee. 133 
 
 Q. An oak roll-top desk in the postmaster's room, House of 
 Assembly, $100, plain oak? A. The one that is there I have 
 placed it at $25 ; it might not be the same one ; it is a very in- 
 ferior desk ; it is barely worth $25. 
 
 'Q. An oak roll-top desk in the Sergeant-at-Arms room of the 
 House of Assembly, $85 ? A. $40. 
 
 Q. An oak revolving chair for the Sergeant-at-Arms to sit in, 
 $8? A. $3.75. 
 
 Q. Four dozen Pages' chairs, $120 ; what is the price for 
 them ? A. $18 a dozen. 
 
 Q. Amounting to? A. Well, I have added something there 
 for cloth tops, amounting to $88.88. 
 
 Q. And a large blue plush chair for the Speaker, $70 ; what 
 is the value of that ? A. $35. 
 
 Q. A 4-foot-6 desk, Attorney-General's office, $80 ? A. $45. 
 
 Q. A desk in the branch court of the Supreme Court, 9 feet 
 by 2-foot-3, at $250? that is specially made? A. Yes, sir; 
 specially made, $120. 
 
 Q. An oak table, leather top, 5-foot by 2-foot-9, in the Bank- 
 ing and Insurance room, $120; what is the value of that? A. 
 
 Q. An oak, leather- top desk, 4 feet 6 by 2 feet 9, in the Bank- 
 ing and Insurance room, $96. A. $35. 
 
 Q. Oak table, cloth top, 10 foot by 3 J, Banking and Insurance, 
 $150; what is the value of that? A. $60. 
 
 Q. Seven small oak chairs, without arms, red leather, Banking 
 and Insurance, down at $112; what is a fair value of those ? 
 A. $84. 
 
 Q. Four oak revolving chairs, slat backs, leather top, &c., 
 Banking and Insurance, $72; what is the value ? A. $24. 
 
 Q. Eleven oak arm chairs in the Attorney General's office, 
 $253 ; what do you estimate those at? A. $176. 
 
 Q. An oak wardrobe, front pigeon holes and leather, $328, in 
 the Attorney-General's office ? A. Special, $185. 
 
 Q. And the next item, three oak desks, roll-top, 5 feet by 2 
 foot 8, in the Superintendent of Instruction's department, $360 ; 
 how much? A. $135. 
 
 Q. An oak roll-top desk in the Superintendent of Public 
 Instruction's department, $120? A. $40. 
 
 Q. An oak wardrobe. Superintendent's office, $150; how 
 much is that worth ? A. $70. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I won't go over every item. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I think it is safe to state that the 
 
134 LOUIS II. m'kee. 
 
 State as a purchaser paid about twice as much as an 
 individual would pay for them. 
 
 Q. The Quartermaster-General's desk, $95 ; what is that 
 worth? A. $60. 
 
 Q. That is a better one, then, than the most of them? A. 
 Yes, I think it is walnut. 
 
 Q. A desk for the Governor, $160 ? A. $100 ; that is a special 
 desk ; it has carved panels. 
 
 Q. Six oak, leather chairs for the Private Secretary of the 
 Governor, $128? A. $64. 
 
 Q. A 4i-toot, roll-top desk for the Superintendent of Banks 
 and Insurance, charged $90 ; what is the value? A. $40. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Then I was right the other day 
 when I said I hadn't seen a $100 desk around these 
 premises. 
 
 Witness — Yes. 
 
 Q. A chair for the President of the Senate ; what is the value 
 of that? A. $35. 
 
 Q. Two roll-top desks for the President of the Senate, $200 ; 
 what is the value ? A. $100. 
 
 Q. Two hand-carved desks for the use of the President and 
 Clerk of the Senate ; those are the ones we see here ; they are 
 charged at $800 ; what is a fair price, giving a fair margin of 
 profit to the man that makes them ? A. $425 for both of them. 
 
 Q. A wardrobe for the Secretary of the Senate, $35 ? A. $20. 
 
 Q. A roll- top desk for the Private Secretary of the Senate, 
 $85; what is the value of that? A. $85. 
 
 Q. A table, 10 feet by 3 J, Insurance office at $90; what is the 
 value of that? A. $46.25. 
 
 Q. Is that one of those tables that go by so much a foot ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. A flat top table, Insurance office at $40 ; what is the value 
 of that? A. $18. 
 
 Q. A 5-foot roll top desk for the Assistant Secretary of the 
 Senate, $85? ^.$85. 
 
 Q. And another one for the Engrossing Clerk of the Senate, 
 $85? A. $35. 
 
 Q. Two flat top desks charged to the Engrossing Clerk of the 
 Senate $160; what do you value those ? A. $80. 
 
 Q. And two tables for the two committee rooms at $80 ? A. 
 
 Q. That is in these little side rooms ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. A double oak standing desk in the Labor Bureau, $65 ? A. 
 
 $35. 
 
135 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I would like to know what the 
 Custodian of this building is for ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I suppose to guard this valuable furni- 
 ture. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — That is about all, and see that his 
 friends put it in at about twice the price anyone else 
 would pay for it. 
 Q. In another bill in the Comptroller's office — 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Doesn't this bond that is filed by 
 the Castodian require that he shall honestly dispose of 
 the money and discharge the duties of his office. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is no bond required of the Custo- 
 dian, but the Superintendent under the former acts gave 
 a bond for $5,000, conditioned to faithfully and honestly 
 perform the duties of his office. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I should think his bondsmen 
 would be interested in this. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That is a very small amount consider- 
 ing the amount the State has been robbed of ; he has got 
 about 10 per cent, and the contractor has about 90. 
 Q. In the Comptroller's office, a flat top desk, 6 feet by 3, 
 $250 ; what is the value of that desk ? A. $125. 
 
 Q. That is special made? A. Yes; it is very similar to the 
 Governor's desk, with a little more work on it. 
 
 Q. And for the same Comptroller's office, an oak wardrobe 
 with a glass front at $150; what is the value of that? A. $60. 
 Q. An oak book-case for the Adjutant-General's office, $90 ? 
 A. $40. 
 
 Q. Then in the restaurant, 4 dozen oak Vienna chairs, $144 ; 
 what is the value ? ^.$72. 
 
 Q. 16 desks for the judges again, $925? A. $475. 
 Q. They sit in a row, one desk or two? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. They are not separate desks ? A. They are continuous 
 desks, and they are plain, very simple in style. 
 
 Q. Two flat top desks in the Supreme Court room at $100 ; 
 what are they worth ? A. $56. 
 
 Q. Two 12-foot tables with drawers ; what are they worth ? 
 A. $144. 
 
 Q. Same place, tables $200 ? A. $120. 
 
 A. An oak table 10 feet long in the branch room, charged 
 $100? A. $60. 
 
 Q. That is the one the lawyers sit at ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In the Court of Chancery, the Chancellor's room, five oak 
 
136 LOUIS H. m'kee. 
 
 desks, charged at $275 ; is that a continuous desk again ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What are they worth ? A. $145. 
 Q. Two flat top desks, $100. A. $66. 
 Q. Two oak tables, 12 feet long, $250. A. .$120. 
 Q. Four oak tables in the Chancellor's room, 10 feet long, 
 charged $400 ; what are they worth ? A. $200. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Does it any where appear why it 
 was necessary to take out the furniture and substitute 
 this in the place of it ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir ; it doesn't appear ; it has been 
 publicly stated that it was done against the protest of 
 those who use those rooms, and I know, so far as the 
 members of the bar are concerned, there was a very 
 general surprise at the removal of better furniture and 
 the substitution of oak, which is cheaper in appearance 
 and cheaper in cost. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Can you look up and find where 
 this was sold ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There was some public auctions of furn- 
 iture here ; the entire amount that realized for all that 
 was in the State House, is, I think, a matter of $2,000 or 
 $3,000 ; sales were made during the three years when 
 these purchases were going on ; I think everything was 
 sold, practically, from one end to the other. 
 Q. 192 oak arm chairs made to order for the court rooms and 
 Chancery, charged at $1,344 ? A. $864. 
 
 Q. You put them at how much apiece ? A. $4.50. 
 Q. That is a fair price for them, is it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And a 13-foot table in the Supreme Court room, charged 
 $130 ; what is that worth ? A. $75. 
 
 Q. A 4-foot-6 roll top desk for the revision of laws committee, 
 $85? A. 35. 
 
 Q. Would you be willing in your business to sell these goods 
 — to supply such goods to any purchaser at the prices you have 
 mentioned ? A. We have done so. 
 
 Q. Would you be willing to do so now ? A, Yes, sir. 
 Q. Would there be left for your company a fair margin of 
 profit? A. Satisfactory; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you your catalogues there showing this furniture ? 
 A. Yes, sir. (Witness produces catalogue.) 
 
 Q. Show us the kinds of furniture that you find in the State 
 House published here in the stock catalogues. A. This is the 
 court-room chair. (Indicating.) 
 
137 
 
 Q. What was that charged at? A. $7, 
 
 Q. Now, where is the $18 roll chair? A. That is the one. 
 
 Q. There are a great many of those in the State House? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is the chair we see here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you see any other of the stock goods? A. Yes, sir; 
 there are some chairs there in the different departments. 
 
 Q. This is another chair ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, with the exception of these special made goods which 
 you have mentioned, these, then, are stock goods which any one 
 can buy from a catalogue and get the trade discount, as tney can 
 other goods ? A. These are placed at the price that any indi- 
 vidual ought to buy at a store. 
 
 Q. The prices you have given are what the individual ought to 
 pay the retail dealer at the store? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You haven't added any cost for delivering? A. No; we 
 haven't done that; no, uor given any discount; they are the list 
 prices. 
 
 Examined by Senator Daly. 
 
 Q. These prices that you have given us, are they the manufac- 
 turer's prices? A. They are what you can obtain as an indi- 
 vidual from a store ; they are not ; they are retail prices. 
 
 Q. They are the trade prices? A. Well, I hardly would call 
 it that ; no ; if my company wanted to buy any of this furniture 
 it could be bought for a great deal less money. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — And your statement as to the 
 values allows a reasonably fair margin of profit? A. It does. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — The prices fixed are such as any 
 individual would have to pay if they went there and bought 
 them? A. It does, and I have been very careful in my estima- 
 tion. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — And at the time they were 
 bought ? A. Yes, sir ; I have been careful as to that. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — May I ask you if you know where 
 much of this furniture came from ; does it appear from 
 the books of Mullins & Co.? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have noticed in examining these books 
 that in a number of instances it does appear that 
 Romaine's name is mentioned, and Haywood's. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I have noticed that on some of 
 the slips you have handed up to us that there is the 
 word "Haywood;" what do you mean by that? 
 Witness — They are from Haywood's catalogue. 
 
138 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — They are wholesale manufacturers 
 of these goods? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is the average profit to the trade in the sale to the 
 individual? A. Well, now, sir, I can't answer that question. 
 
 Q. Isn't it as high as 100 per cent., and in some instances 150? 
 A. From the trade to the individual ? 
 
 Q. Yes ? J. N"o, I think not. 
 
 Q. Well, then, tell us about — 
 
 Senator Skirm — He says he can't answer that. 
 Senator Daly — He can approximate it; he knows 
 something about the business ; that is what he is here for. 
 
 A. One man can purchase, probably, a little closer than an- 
 other ; one man's credit might be heavier than another ; he can 
 make better terms, his payments might be better. 
 
 Q. Conditions control it? A. 1 don't know of anything in 
 the furniture business that would allow 100 per cent. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Except the instalment business? 
 A. Well, that I know nothing of. 
 
 Q. Goods that are manufactured upon order, is the profit 
 greater ? A. Yes, sir ; generally a larger allowance, because the 
 real cost has some uncertainties. 
 
 Q. For instance, desks to be used for certain purposes, not in 
 stock — what would the profit be in a case of that kind, made to 
 order? A. Well, they would vary ; it would depend upon what 
 the order would be ; there is no scale or schedule for any such 
 thing. 
 
 Q. Desks like that you have your arm arm on — are they sold 
 by the trade ? A. Tables of a smaller size would be ; if you 
 come to a larger table you wouldn't find them in stock, because 
 they are large and inconvenient to keep. 
 
 Q. Every article, almost, of tables and chairs that you have 
 alluded to in that schedule — are they stock goods? A. Well, I 
 have designated " special " there in a good many cases. 
 
 Q. Now, I apply the omnibus question — general question : in 
 most every instance the articles you have alluded to, are they 
 sold in stock ? 
 
 Senator Skirm — The witness answered that ques- 
 tion, Senator Daly. 
 
 Senator Daly — I am asking him again. 
 Senator Skirm — The list shows where he has marked 
 them " special " and he said so as he went. 
 
 A. I can't say most every instance, no, sir; I haven't averaged 
 them ; I haven't gone over them. 
 
LOUIS H. m'kee. 139 
 
 Q. Now average them ; you have had them in your possession, 
 Mr. Corbin states, for some days 'i A. I have marked them 
 "special"; that is the reason for my higher price in " special 
 goods." 
 
 Q. You have seen the goods? A. I have examined them 
 closely. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact they are not stock goods, are they? 
 A. Well, as I have said, some of them are not stock goods. 
 
 Q. Well, the greater portion of them? A. Yes, sir; the 
 greater portion of them are. 
 
 Q. Are vs^hat ? A. Stock goods. 
 
 Q. Did you ever sell any goods to the State House ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. When ? A. Sundry times since we have been in business, 
 for the last six or eight years. 
 
 Q. When was the last sale you made to the State House, and 
 what did it comprehend ? A. Lockers for the Senate chamber. 
 Q. When was that ? A. This year or late last year. 
 Q. These lockers in these rooms ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. What did you charge for those ? J.. I don't recall. 
 §. Why not? ^. Somewhere near $300. 
 Q. $300? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — That is about 50 per cent, what 
 we would have had to pay for them under the old 
 regime. 
 
 Senator Daly — I am only asking the question; you 
 are not competent to judge at this time. 
 Senator Voorhees — I^or are you. 
 Senator Daly — I am not here to protect this witness, 
 I don't suppose the Committee is ; I am here to get the 
 truth, and to know to what extent he is competent as an 
 expert, and to what extent we should take his testimony 
 in that capacity. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I might state for the information 
 of the Senator that it is possible to get a dozen experts 
 who will put the figures even lower than this gentle- 
 man has. 
 
 Senator Daly — And it is possible that there are a 
 dozen that will agree with the price that has been put in. 
 Senator Voorhees — I have no doubt that Mr. Ford 
 would get them by hundreds. 
 
 Senator Daly — I don't know whether Mr. Ford would 
 or not ; I am not here to defend Mr. Ford or criticise 
 him at this time; when a proper time comes I will 
 
140 
 
 criticise him, and not until then ; I don't think we are 
 competent to criticise him at this stage. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I think the majority of the Com- 
 mitte are quite competent, the disclosures of the testi- 
 mony this morning were sufficient. Does the Senator 
 want some more information from the witness ? 
 Senator Daly — Yes, sir, I do. 
 Q. |300 you charged for those lockers ; about that, you say ; 
 they are rather plain things, are they not? A. Not so very plain. 
 Q. They are made out of oak? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. How many lockers, all told, are they ? -4. I think there 
 are twenty. 
 
 Q. Approximate the profit to the manufacturer in that instance? 
 
 Senator Skirm — That is an unfair question. 
 A. I am very well satisfied, sir, with the price of them. 
 Q. I haven't the least doubt but you are. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Was there 150 per cent, profit in 
 
 this? A. No, sir; you draw your comparisons to the cost of 
 
 them with the others if you wish; take the court room lockers. 
 
 Q. But they are rather plain-looking ? A. They were so 
 
 ordered. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Corbin)— Who ordered them? A. I think the 
 present Custodian ordered them. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Corbin) — And you pot them in? A. We put 
 them in. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — And they are special, are they not? 
 A. Yes, sir; the size was given. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And specially made to fit in these 
 
 different rooms 1 A. Yes, sir ; I would like to have a comparison 
 
 made if there is any thought that my prices — they are high price. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I don't think anyone thinks they are 
 
 high price. 
 
 Senator Daly — How do you know they don't ? I am 
 judging from the testimony whether they will be or not. 
 Senator Skirm — And so am I ; that is what I mean 
 to judge the whole case by. 
 
 Senator Daly — You are getting a good many things 
 outside. 
 Q. You compete with several industries in this State at manu- 
 facturing the same lino of goods and selling the same line of 
 goods ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Do you have a factory here in Trenton ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
WILLIAM S. STRYKBR. 141 
 
 Q. You put in the furniture for the Assembly Chamber, did 
 you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The desks of the members ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Was that on bidding ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And your bid being the lowest, the contract was awarded 
 to you ? A. Yes, eir. 
 
 Q. How much did you get apiece for the Assembly Chamber 
 desks? A. |32. 
 
 Q. Are they like these here ? A. They are similar, but larger. 
 
 William S. Strykbr, affirmed. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I now direct the attention of the Com- 
 mittee to another branch of the subject under inquiry, 
 and that is the furnishing of pigeon-holes and metallic 
 fittings for the different offices of the State — metallic 
 pigeon-hole cases ; and I draw attention, first, to the bills 
 of the A. B. Dick Company'. These are by no means all 
 that there are on file for this sort of work, but it is to 
 these that I call attention at this time. 
 
 The A. B. Dick Company, in JSTovember, 1891, for the 
 State Capitol (that is the front part of the building), were 
 paid a bill of $5,669.50; March 22d, $25; February, 
 1894, $5,119.20; February, 1894, $3,715.20; March, 
 1894, $3,640,92, making a total for that front building 
 of $18,169.82, charged to the State House expense. In 
 May, 1893, they were paid a bill of $2,645, for the 
 " Furnishing of the new Capitol," another account. 
 They were also paid bills in December, 1891, $267.50; 
 in August, 1891, $125 ; September, 1891, $387.50; Feb- 
 ruary, ,1894, $88.40; March, 1894, $677.16, making a 
 total in that account of $1,545.56. 
 
 The total of their bills, including a small bill for fur- 
 nishing the Assembly Chamber is $22,972.38, nearly all 
 of which is for metallic cases. 
 Q. What office do you hold under New Jersey ? A. Adjutant- 
 General of the State. 
 
 Q. How long have you been Adjutant-General? A. I was 
 appointed on the 12th day of April, 1867. 
 
 Q. Have you had an office here at the State House from then 
 until the present time ? A. Except at the time of the fire, when 
 1 was in the building opposite the State House. 
 
 Q. Have you another occupation. General, besides your office 
 
142 WILLIAM S. STRYKER. 
 
 of Adjutant- General; if so, what is it? A. 1 am president of 
 the Trenton Savings Bank, of this city. 
 
 Q. Do you remember the occasion when metallic pigeon holes 
 were being put into the State House, in 1893 ? ^. I do ; yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did any one approach you on the subject of having them 
 put into your vault? A. The Comptroller of the Treasury. 
 
 Q. What did he suggest? A. I recognized him as a member 
 of the Commission to refurnish the State House, and he told me 
 that the other offices were being refurnished with the metallic 
 boxes ; I replied that I had already commenced to furnish my 
 small vault with manilla boxes, and the carpenter of the State 
 House was putting shelving in the vaults. I recognized the fact 
 that I had been custodian of the military papers of the State that 
 extended back 130 years, and for nearly 25 years I had been to 
 some extent officially responsible for their safe keeping. When 
 I considered the matter that the vault itself, though fire-proof, 
 with the manilla boxes inside might still be destroyed, I acquisced 
 in the idea that I should have metallic boxes like the rest. 
 
 Q. Had you asked for any change from the manilla boxes to 
 metallic boxes 1 A. I had not. 
 
 Q. Did you desire it ? I didn't desire it until I underetood 
 that the other oflices in that portion of the building were having 
 them put in. 
 
 y. And you then consented to what was suggested? A. I 
 consented then ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who came with Mr. Comptroller ? A. There was one or 
 two persons with him ; I think there was a gentleman by the 
 name of Heeney who accompanied him. 
 
 Q. Formerly a member of the Assembly ? I think so ; yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Dick, of Chicago, come to ? A. 1 can't say 
 whether Mr. Dick was there or not ; I think he was in the vault 
 at some time. 
 
 Q. Did they go on with the work and put the cases in your 
 vault? A._ They commenced the work in Chicago, and I sug- 
 gested some changes in the character of the boxes which would 
 make it more convenient for my work. 
 
 Q. But they were finally put in, were they? A. Finally put 
 in ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. After they were put in a bill came to the State House for 
 them, I suppose? J.. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did it come under your notice for approval ? A. My atten- 
 tion was called to it, and I remarked — 
 
WILLIAM S. STRYKEK. 143 
 
 Q. I show you voucher ISTo. 1412 ot February, 1894, which will 
 be marked " Exhibit 100 "; is that the bill that was presented for 
 your approval? A. This was the bill that was exhibited to me, 
 and I expressed my opinion that it was an exorbitant bill, and I 
 wouldn't approve it. 
 
 Q. You declined to approve it? A. I did at that time. 
 
 Q. Did the Comptroller afterwards call upon you with refer- 
 ence to this bill? A. The Comptroller came to me with the bill 
 for me to mark it correct. I had been accustomed during all 
 these years to consider that. when I marked a bill as a State offi- 
 cial as correct, I marked the bill on account of the articles fur- 
 nished. 
 
 Q. And also approval of the price ? A. And also approval of 
 the price, but of course I had nothing to do with the price. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorheee) — Does any other custom obtain 
 than that? A. I know of no other custom except for a State 
 official to mark them correct. 
 
 Q. Well, after you had declined to approve this bill, and the 
 Comptroller came to you with it, what was said or done ; 
 what did he say about it ? A. He said : " Have the articles 
 been furnished, and are they satisfactory ? " I said : " The arti- 
 cles have been furnished and the work has been done, and it is 
 satisfactory." 
 
 Q. Did you call his attention to the price which you consid- 
 ered exorbitant ? J.. I did, sir. 
 
 Q. What was the response to that ? A. That was a matter 
 for the Commission that had ordered these boxes. 
 
 Q. Did you then put your name on this bill? A. I pat my 
 name on this bill, saying " Correct and satisfactory as to work," 
 and signed it officially. 
 
 Q. But you declined to approve it as to price? A. I did, sir. 
 Mr. Corbin — This bill, which is marked " Exhibit 
 100," is a bill for $3,715.20 for fittings in the Adjutant- 
 General's vault. 
 
 Q. I show you a subsequent bill of January 20th, 1894, for a 
 steel cabinet for the Adjutant-General's vault, §306. What 
 occurred with reference to this? A. I considered this also exor- 
 bitant, and I marked it, " Cabinet was furnished as ordered." 
 
 Q. You declined to approve it further than that? A. Yes, 
 sir. In the customary way I had been accustomed to in other 
 
 bills. 
 
 Voucher oflered in evidence and marked "Exhibit 101." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This bill contains in addition to what 
 
 General Stryker has read, the following: the first bill. 
 
144 WILLIAM S. STEYKBR. 
 
 " Exhibit 100," "Approved, George T. Werts, Governor; 
 H. C. Kelsey, Secretary of State ; approved, William C. 
 Heppenheimer, Comptroller; J. Bingham Woodward, 
 George R. Gray, Treasurer," and is sworn to by Albert 
 Dick, Treasurer, in Cook county, Illinois, and is paid. 
 
 As to "Exhibit 101," in addition to what General 
 
 Stryker has spoken of, it is marked "Approved, William 
 
 C. Heppenheimer, Comptroller; approved, George T. 
 
 Werts, Governor," and is paid. It is also sworn to by 
 
 Mr. Dick, Treasurer of the A. B. Dick Company, in 
 
 Cook county, Illinois. 
 
 Q. You say that previous to this time the custom of approval, 
 
 as you understand it, was for the officers to mark bills correct for 
 
 goods which came to their custody ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This was a departure from your custom in regard to these 
 bills ? A. 1 don't know of any other incident. 
 
 Q. No other incident since you have been at the State House? 
 Q. ISTot that I am aware of; I can't recall it. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think, as Chairman of the 
 Committee, it is quite proper that I should express the 
 opinion of the Committee that your course in this case 
 was very commendable. I do not see the necessity of 
 submitting these bills for approval unless they are to be 
 approved both as to the fact that the goods were fur- 
 nished, and that the charges made for them are proper. 
 I know the statute makes the Comptroller an auditing 
 officer, and the statute further says that when any ques- 
 tion is raised as to the price charged for the goods, that 
 he has it in his power to compel the attendance of wit- 
 nesses — and here is a bill the approval of which is 
 approved by the officer in whose department the im- 
 provements were made, and a qualified approval given 
 of the bill, and yet the Comptroller certifies it as being 
 correct and pays it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — May I ask, Mr. Chairman, who gave 
 the order for these goods ? 
 
 Senator Voorhees — The State House Commission, and 
 I fail to see why, if Col. Stryker's position is not the cor- 
 rect one, why it was necessary to submit the bill to him 
 at all for his approval. 
 
 Mr. Stryker — I thank you, Senator. 
 Senator Voorhees — I am sure it is only fair to you, 
 General Stryker. We can readily see that you did not 
 approve the price of the charge. You simply qualified 
 
S. M. DICKINSON. 145 
 
 your approval by saying you approved it as to articles 
 furnished. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I vpill refer to the statute which the 
 Chairman has referred to. It is Section 24, under the 
 head of Treasury, Revision, page 1217. (Mr. Corbin 
 read the section referred to.) 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Is there any evidence that when 
 the Comptroller's attention was called to this fact that 
 he brought before him any witnesses as to the charge. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The only evidence I find on record is 
 the affidavit made by Mr. Dick, in Cook county, before 
 a notary public, that the account is correct and just, 
 and the services rendered and articles furnished as 
 stated. 
 
 Colonel S. M. Dickinson, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your position under the State ? A. I am clerk in 
 the Chancery office for one thing, and an Advisory Master and 
 Chancery Recorder. 
 
 Q. You practically have the immediate charge of the Chancery 
 office, have you not? A. I have; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. For how many years have you had charge? A. Since 1871, 
 continuously. 
 
 Q. Do you remember in the fall of 1898, when this subject of 
 putting in metallic pigeon-holes came up in the State House ? 
 A. Yes, sir; I remember something about it. 
 
 Q. You had your principal vault already furnished, did you 
 not? A. Our vaults were furnished with the Tucker files — a 
 wooden pigeon-hole and filing apparatus. 
 
 Q. And you had another room which you desired to fit up ? 
 A. There was certain improvements made in the office by which 
 a portion of the hall was taken into the office, and that gave us 
 another room for vault purposes, which we needed very much, 
 and I wanted that room provided with the files, and I proposed 
 to put in the Tucker file. 
 
 Q. You preferred the Tucker file ? A. 1 didn't know any 
 other file than the one we had in the other parts of the office. 
 
 Q. Who suggested that you put in any metallic file in this new 
 room that you fitted up ? A. My recollection is that I applied 
 to the Commission ; I don't recollect to whom I first spoke about 
 it but I think the Comptroller and other members of the Com- 
 mission, for the purpose of having the files put into that room ; 
 
 10 8 H 
 
146 8. M. DICKINSON. 
 
 and it was then suggested that all the other offices were having 
 the metallic file provided, and I think Mr. Kelsey had already 
 had these Tucker files, and they were removed, and the metallic 
 files being put in, as it was thought they were a protection 
 against fire or destruction of papers; so I had no objection to the 
 metallic file, except I didn't like the color ; they were black and 
 gloomy looking ; but I agreed to them afterwards. 
 
 Q. You consented to it? A. 1 consented to having the 
 metallic files, as they were all being put in the offices. 
 
 Q. And they were put into that room, were they ? A. They 
 were put in the room, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. After they had been put in did the bills for them from the 
 A. B. Dick Company come under your notice for your approval? 
 A. I think the bill was sent up to me, or brought up to me from 
 the Comptroller's office for my^that is, for the approval of the 
 Clerk, and, having general authority to sign his name, they were 
 brought to me to approve. 
 
 Q. I show you voucher ISTo. 1164 of February, 1894, being bill 
 of A. B. Dick Company to the State of New Jersey, dated Janu- 
 ary 20, 1894, for the steel vault fittings for the Clerk of Chancery, 
 $5,119.20, and it will be marked " Exhibit 102 ; " is that the bill 
 that was brought to you for approval ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you approve it when it was shown you 2 A. 1 
 endorsed it " The above fittings have been duly furnished, Allan 
 McDermott, Clerk." 
 
 Q. Did you decline to give any further approval than that? 
 A. I don't know as I was asked to approve it as to the price, but 
 I didn't approve it as to the price. 
 
 Q. Did you not omit doing so for the reason that you con- 
 sidered the bill highly exorbitant? A. I was rather astonished 
 at the amount of the bill ; as it was not my business to approve 
 it as to price I didn't want to do so, having no knowledge of it. 
 
 Q. What is the custom in your office in that regard when bills 
 are presented for goods that have been furnished to the State, 
 and which come to your custody ; do you not usually mark them 
 correct ? A. The practice in our office is that when we order 
 goods ourselves I always look over them to see that the prices 
 are such as ought to be paid — when we have ordered them our- 
 selves, and when they are not ordered through any Commission 
 or other authority, and when the prices are approved I mark it 
 as correct; that includes the price. 
 
 Q. I show you another small bill, A. B. Dick Company, for 
 $88.40, being voucher 1,206, February, 1894, and which is marked 
 
HENRY N. BOOZ. 147 
 
 " Exhibit 103." That one you endorsed as correct, did you not? 
 A. I thought that was right. 
 
 Q. That is your usual way of endorsing a bill, isn't it? A^ 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is endorsed " Correct, Allan McDermott, Clerk." That 
 is in your handwriting? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— The "Exhibit 102," to which I refer, 
 the large one, has, in addition to Col. Dickinson's en- 
 dorsement, which he has explained, "Approved, George 
 T. Werts, Governor ; A. C. Heppenheimer, Comptroller; 
 Henry C. Kelsey, Secretary of State ; George E,. Gray, 
 Treasurer," and is paid. That also has an affidavit taken 
 before a Notary Public in Cook county. 111., by Mr, 
 Dick. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Committee are unanimous 
 in asking me as their Chairman to express their com- 
 mendation of the course pursued by you in this matter. 
 The same remarks will apply to you as were made to 
 General Stryker; it seems to me that the course was 
 commendable on your part. 
 
 Witness — I am much obliged to you. I want to say 
 that I didn't know anything about the price of these 
 boxes ; I supposed that they had gone through the usual 
 course of being examined by the Building Commission, 
 and that the contract, or whatever it was, was seen to 
 by them — that we had nothing to do with that part of it. 
 Senator Ketcham — Were there any bids received for 
 these goods ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — 1 am unable to find anything of the sort. 
 
 Henry N. Booz, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Philadelphia. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. lam in the metallic furni- 
 ture business. 
 
 Q. How long have you been in the metal furniture business ? 
 A. Since the origin. 
 
 q. When was that? A. 1887 or 1886—1887, along there. 
 
 Q. With whom were you first connected in that business ? 
 A. With the Fenton Metallic Manufacturing Company. 
 
 q. During what years? A. I think their Company was or- 
 ganized in 1888 or 1889, up to 1893. 
 
 q. And afterwards with whom were you ? A. Had a contract 
 with the Hoflman-Keefe Oflace File Company. 
 
148 HENRY N. BOO/. 
 
 Q. You had a contract with them representing them ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; I had the exclusive sale of their good in Pennsylvania, 
 New Jersey, Maryland and Delaware, with an office at Philadel- 
 phia. 
 
 Q. Where is this Hoflman concern located ? A. The office of 
 the Hofiman-Keefe Office Pile Company is in Chicago, and the 
 factory was in Milwaukee. 
 
 Q. And you were their sole agent for the four States you have 
 named? A. Pive States. 
 
 Q. Was it you that introduced metallic office files into New 
 Jersey? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You made the first sales in this State? A. I think so; I 
 sold the first file in New Jersey. 
 
 Q. And in Pennsylvania, how ? A. And in Pennsylvania the 
 first file. 
 
 Q. Then you have been familiar with this business from the 
 first, have you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And in what way are you connected with the business 
 now ? ^. I am manufacturing, myself, to a certain extent. In 
 1893, I had a contract with the Hofiman-Keefe Office Pile Com- 
 pany for a term of five years, and their work didn't come up to 
 the standard, and we canceled the contract. 
 
 Q. Now, while you were with the Pentou Company you put 
 the file into the State House and the Supreme Court Clerk's 
 room ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember the time when Comptroller Heppen- 
 heimer came in office, in 1891, when there was a change in the 
 office in 1891 ? J.. I remember of the change. 
 
 Q. Do you remember the fact of Mr. A. B. Dick, of Chicago, 
 coming on here to the State House soon after that change. A. 
 "Well, I think by the newspaper report, or through the trade, I 
 found out, 
 
 Q. Did you meet him here ? A. No, sir, I didn't meet him 
 here ; I never met Dick personally until November, 1893. 
 
 Q. But there were files put in by Mr. Dick in 1891, were there 
 not ? ^4. Yes, sir ; however, I didn't know until I seen — 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I call attention to voucher No. 86, No- 
 vember, _1891, being two bills fastened together; the 
 first is a bill of the "A. B. Dick Company to the State 
 of New Jersey, Comptroller's office; complete set of 
 steel fittings for the vault, $2,796.90 ; correct, and ap- 
 proved for $2,796.90 ; William C. Heppenheimer, 
 Comptroller ; ordered paid by the Building Commis- 
 sion, November 11, 1891; Geo. R. Gray, Treasurer." 
 
HEXRY X BOOZ. 149 
 
 Also, pinued to the same, another voucher, October 
 10th, 1891 : "State of New Jersey, Comptroller's office ; 
 complete set of steel fittings for vault, $2,782.60 ; ap- 
 proved, Geo. R. Gray, State Treasurer ; ordered paid 
 by the Building Commission, November 11, 1891 ; 
 George R. Gray, Treasurer." To these bills there 
 is no affidavit whatever, but both seem to be paid, by 
 the accounts of the Treasurer's office. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Not verified? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Have we a bill of items for that 
 $2,800 ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I show you all there is ; I shall show the 
 items by this witness, but there is no bill of items on 
 file; the Comptroller informs me that there is a letter 
 on file in his department in reference to this matter. 
 
 Bills marked " Exhibits 104 and 105." 
 
 Also bill dated "November 30th, 1891, for set. of 
 fittings for Treasurer's vault, one steel table, $25, cor- 
 rect, Geo. R. Gray, Treasurer, William C. Heppenhei- 
 mer, Comptroller." 
 
 Marked " Exhibit 106." 
 
 Also "November 30th, 1891, State of New Jersey, 
 Comptroller's vault, one steel-rail book shelf table, con- 
 taining 48 rail shelves and nine open drawers, $267.50, 
 approved, Leon Abbett, Governor, William C. Heppen- 
 heimer, Comptroller," and paid. 
 
 Also a bill of A. B. Dick Company to the State of 
 New Jersey, dated "April 26th, 1893, for steel vault 
 fittings, Executive offices, $2,645. Approved, Geo. R. 
 Gray, Treasurer ; approved, B. J. Ford, Superintendent, 
 May 16th," and paid. 
 
 Marked " Exhibit 107." 
 
 Senator Ketcham — It is all charged to the State? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir; they are all in the State Treas- 
 urer's accounts. 
 
 Then follow, at the end of 1893 and the beginning of 
 the year 1894, these four bills which I have already 
 offered in evidence, Exhibits 100 to 103, and which 
 General Stryker and Colonel Dickinson have explained, 
 amounting to $13,240 additional, for their offices and 
 some others. 
 
 "Exhibit 100 "is $3,715, for the Adjutant-General's 
 office; "Exhibit 101" is $4,012, for the Comptroller's 
 
150 HENRY N. B OZ. 
 
 office, and $300 ior the Adjutant-General's office; "Ex- 
 hibit 102," $5,119.20, for the Clerk in Chancery, and 
 "Exhibit 103' is $88.40, for the Clerk in Chancery. 
 The total of these bills is $21,847.88. 
 Q. Have you examined all these files which I have mentioned ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How recently? A. Friday last. 
 
 Q. Have you made a careful estimate of the value of them all? 
 A. i have. 
 
 Q. And have you made a detailed statement of what each one 
 consists of ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Refer first to those of 1891, first the Comptroller's vault; 
 the item which on this paper that you have made up is called 
 "C"; how have you figured the value of them; have you 
 allowed a profit to the manufacturer ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Of how much? A. Of about 33J per cent. 
 Q. Is that a good full profit in that business ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. What is the value of that vault, including that profit? A. 
 $1,150. 
 
 Q. It is charged in the bill at $3,064.40. Refer to the Treas- 
 ury vault item ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is the value of that vault? A. $986.67. 
 Q. That is charged at $2,897.60? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Now, refer to the vaults which were put in in 1893 and 
 1894, first to the item A, which went into the Adjutant General's 
 vault, including the table and all ? A. $1,654.27. 
 Q. They are charged at $4,021.20 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Refer to item B in the Clerk in Chancery's room. What 
 is the value of that, that Mr. Dickinson spoke of? A. $1,840.67. 
 Q. That is charged at §5,207.60. Refer to the item D in the 
 Coruptroller's basement vault. What is the value of that? A. 
 $1,073.34. 
 
 Q. That is charged at $4,012.08? 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I believe you stated they were 
 sLeal vaults, didn't you ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These are steel cases. 
 Q. Refer to item F, 1893, Governor's vault. What is the 
 value of that? A. $776 even. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— That is charged at $2,645. The total of 
 
 Mr. Booz's figures for these vaults is $7,480.95, and the 
 
 prices paid by the State is $21,847.88. 
 
 (,>. Kindly refer now to those other items which were done 
 
 about the bigiuniug of 1894, just before Col. Heppenheimer 
 
 ordered those three items. A, B and D, the Adjutant-General's 
 
HENRY N. BOOZ. 151 
 
 vault, the Clerk in Chancery and the Comptroller's basement 
 vault. Your figures, I see, upon those are $4,568.28. Is that 
 right ? A. Yea, sir. 
 
 Q. And the State paid for them $13,240.88 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I wish to call your attention particularly to this time when 
 the contract was being given out for those three jobs. A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Where were you then ^ A. 1 was in Chicago. 
 
 Q. And who did you meet in Chicago with reference to that 
 subject? A. A. B.Dick. 
 
 Q. And who else ? A. Mr. Hoflman. 
 
 Q. You were then Hoffman's sole agent in these four States ? 
 A, Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did Mr. Dick say about getting this job? A. Mr. 
 Hoffman called my attention to the fact in Milwaukee on the 
 Saturday previous to the following Monday when I met him in 
 his place in Chicago, and he told me that Mr. Dick had been 
 called to Trenton by Mr. Heppenheimer ; that they wanted to 
 furnish the vaults there, and nobody could get the work but him ; 
 I at first didn't feel inclined to turn this work over to anybody. 
 
 Q. You having tbe exclusive agency here 1 A. 1 having the 
 exclusive agency; and finally Mr. Hoffman prevailed upon me 
 that I should, and we went to see Mr. Dick, went to Mr. Dick's 
 office, and Mr. Hoffman there told him that I had consented that 
 if Hoffman would pay me 10 per cent, on this sale that he could 
 make it. 
 
 Q. And you consented to it on those terms? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Dick make any remarks about the contract? A. 
 Mr. Dick said he could get the contract at any price. 
 
 Q. Well, Mr. Dick went on with the contract, did he? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, after this contract was done, you had some little 
 trouble in collecting your 10 per cent, commission, did you not ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You brought a suit? A. I brought a suit. 
 
 Q. In what court ? A. In Philadelphia. 
 
 Q. Against whom ? A. Against the Hoffman-Keefe Office 
 File Company, and Gueder & Pasche Manufacturing Company, 
 as assignees and successors. 
 
 Q. You joined them both? A. The Hoffman-Keefe Office 
 Pile Company. 
 
 Q. You joined them both as defendants in your suit? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
152 HENRY N. BOOZ. 
 
 Q. Have you got verified copies of the sworn answers they 
 filed in this case ? A, Yes, sir — -that is, Mr. Hofiman's answer. 
 Q. You have verified this, have you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I ofier in evidence the affidavit made 
 June 16th, 1894, signed aod sworn to by H. J. Hoffman, 
 part of the files of the Court of Common Pleas, 'So. 3, 
 Philadelphia county. This affidavit goes on to recite 
 the circumstances, and the part that I wish to call special 
 attention to is this : They deny that they have been 
 paid $7,000 for these files, but they say that the Hoff- 
 man-Keefe Office File Company received for it the sum 
 of $4,117. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — At what price were they charged 
 to the State ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin— $13,240. 
 
 The affidavit of defence of William Gueder recites 
 the facts also, and I wish to explain to the Committee 
 that he represented the manufacturers who are still 
 back of Hoffman, and he swears that the manufacturers 
 received for those fittings the sum of $2,400. I offer in 
 evidence these two answers — marked " Exhibits 109 
 and 110." 
 
 Senator Voorhees — That gentleman who made that 
 
 affidavit is known to some members of the Committee 
 
 as being a perfectly reputable man. The next inquiry 
 
 is, where did the $9,000 go? 
 
 Q. After that affidavit of defence was filed did you come to a 
 
 settlement of this case for your 10 per cent. ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. On what sum were you paid 10 per cent, for your com- 
 mission ? J.. On a four thousand dollar basis. 
 
 Q. $4,117 ? A. 1 wish to explain that my commission did not 
 come from Mr. Dick ; that came from the Hofiman-Keefe Office 
 File Company, out of the $4,100. 
 
 Q. Am I correct in stating that this affidavit of defence of 
 Gueder shows that the manufacturer received §2,400 ? A. That 
 is his affidavit. 
 
 Q. That Hoffman, the dealer in these goods, received $4,117, 
 for which he paid you $411.70 for your commission, and that he 
 turned that over to Mr. Dick, who received from the State 
 $13,240? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that your present estimate at the value of these goods 
 is $4,568, and in that you have figured 38J per cent, profit for 
 yourself? A. That is for the Adjutant-General, the Clerk in 
 Chancery and the Comptroller's basement vault, and if I had 
 
HENEY N. BOOZ. 153 
 
 sold those goods, I may just as well explain it fully, at $4,568.28, 
 my profit would have beer a little over $1,100 on the sale, 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — That would have been 33^ per cent. 
 profit ? A. Yes, sir ; approximately. 
 
 Q. You have seen Mr. Dick frequently ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And General Heppenheimer ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Do you know of the personal relations existing between 
 those two gentlemen ? A. 1 know they are personal friends — 
 that is, from the expression of both, for Heppenheimer told me 
 that, and so did Mr. Dick. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I should they would be bound 
 together by ties of steal. 
 
 Are you in a position to inform the Committee who 
 gave the order for these goods? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have just had the books brought here 
 now. I find, Mr. Chairman, with regard to these three 
 that Mr. Booz has just spoken of — I find three letters 
 on file in the Comptroller's office, dated : 
 
 " Chicago, December 2d, 1893. 
 "Hon. W. C. Heppenheimer, Comptroller, Trenton, N. J. 
 
 " Deae Sir : In accordance with the specifications 
 required for steel fittings in the new vault office of the 
 Chancery Clerk in the State House, we submit the fol- 
 lowing price : $5,119.20. Please advise if this is satis- 
 factory. 
 
 "A. B. Dick Company." 
 
 The next letter from Chicago is the same date : 
 
 " Chicago, December 2d, 1898. 
 "Hon. W. C. Heppenheimer, Comptroller, Trenton, N. J. 
 
 "Dear Sir: In accordance with the specifications 
 required for the steel fittings in the vault of the Adju- 
 tant-General in the State House, we submit the follow- 
 ing price: $3,715.20; and the price of the steel cabinet 
 in the same vault, $306. Please advise if this is satis- 
 factory, and oblige yours truly, 
 
 "A. B. Dick Company." 
 
 The third one : 
 
 "Chicago, December 19th, 1893. 
 ^'Hon. W. C. Heppenheimer, Comptroller, Trenton, N. J. 
 
 "Dear Sir: In accordance with the specifications 
 required for the steel fittings in the basement vault of 
 
154 HENRY N. BOOZ. 
 
 the Comptroller's office in the State House, we submit 
 
 the followiug : 
 
 » For files and fittings |3,640.92 
 
 " Roller book-case 371.16 
 
 " Please advise if this is satisfactory, and oblige yours 
 
 truly, 
 
 "A. B. Dick Company." 
 
 To all these the Comptroller seems to have returned 
 one answer : 
 
 " January 2d, 1894. 
 "J.. B. Dick Company, Lake street, Chicago. 
 
 "Gentlemen: Your letters of the 2d and 19th of 
 laHt month concerning the prices for steel fittings in the 
 vaults of the Chancery, Adjutant-General and Comp- 
 troller's Departments, were submitted to the State Board, 
 who have charge of the State work. After considera- 
 tion I am directed by the State Board to inform you 
 that your oflfer has this day been accepted. You will 
 please proceed immediately with the work and ship the 
 goods as soon as possible. Yours respectfully, 
 
 *' William C. Heppenheimbr, Comptroller." 
 
 Those relate to the files built in the early part of 1894 
 —marked "Exhibits 111, 112 and 113," and the letter 
 book "Exhibit 114." 
 
 I call the attention of the Committee also to a letter 
 from A. B. Dick Company, dated May 16th, 1891. 
 
 This goes back to the other items. 
 
 " Hon. George E. Gray, State Treas., State of New Jersey, 
 Trenton, N. J. 
 " Dear Sir : We beg to submit the following esti- 
 mate on metal fittings for your vault, delivered and set 
 up within ninety days from receipt of order : 
 
 " Steel document case on two sides and end of vault, 
 with base underneath, to contain steel drawers and rol- 
 ler book-shelves, as explained to you ; all trimmings to 
 be in extra plated nickel, and the cornice of the case to 
 be handsomely moulded and nickel plated, for the sum 
 of $'2,S72.60. One steel table for vault, for $25.00. 
 " Yours very truly, A. B. Dick Company, 
 
 " Per A. B. Dick, Pres." 
 
HENEY N. BOOZ. 155 
 
 To that there is a responBe from the Comptroller : 
 
 " May 26th, 1891. 
 "A. B. Dick Company, Lake Stnef, Chicago. 
 
 " Gentlemen : I beg to inform you that your estimate 
 of the furniture and fittings for my office, dated May 
 16th, 1891, is accepted. 
 
 " The State Treasurer has requested me to inform you 
 of his acceptance of the estimates furnished him of the 
 same day. 
 
 " Kindly execute and deliver the work as quickly as 
 possible." 
 
 Letter referred to ofiered iu evidence and marked 
 " Exhibit 115," and the letter book marked 116. 
 
 Q. This statement which you had in your hand when you tes- 
 tified, was this made up by you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 'Q. And this gives in detail what this work is, does it? A. 
 Every item in each vault. 
 
 Q. This later work that was done in 1894, I see it seems to be 
 more disproportionate to your figures than the work done in 
 1891. How about the quality of the work done in 1893, is it 
 better or worse than that done earlier ? A. It is not as good 
 work ; I don't think the work is as well finished ; I suppose the 
 material is tue same, but not as well finished as the work in the 
 Comptroller's vault. The work in the Adjutant- General's office 
 is very crude. It might be well to explain that the Hoffman fac- 
 tory burned out in May, 1893, and Gueder & Paschke Company 
 took on this work in their factory some time in November, 1893, 
 and were not in shape to finish the work as well as formerly. 
 
 Statement of Mr. Booz is offered in evidence and marked 
 " Exhibit 117." 
 
 Q. You said that the Company with whom you were formerly 
 connected, the Fenton Eile Company, fitted up the vault of the 
 clerk of the Supreme Court with this same sort of furniture? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was in 1891, was it? A. 1891, 1 think, in January. 
 
 Q. What was the total bill of the Fenton Company for that 
 work? A. $3,129, my recollection is; the vault is just about 
 twice as large as the Adjutant- General or any other one. 
 
 Q. It is twice as large as the Adjutant-General's, and the 
 Adjutant-General's cost what? A. About $4,000. 
 
 Q. Well, when you put that up for $3,129 did you lose any 
 money? A. No, sir. 
 
156 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 Q. Did you make some? A. Made a fair profit, good profit. 
 Q. As big as 38J per cent, you have mentioned ? A. As high 
 as that. I might say too, that steel was worth at that time just 
 $20 a ton more than it was when this work was put in. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would like to ask if Mr. Mullins has 
 the books present that were not present this morning ? 
 
 Senator Edwards produced a book. 
 
 Have you the other one, Mr. Edwards ? 
 
 Senator Edwards — That is the only book I have. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In regard to this A. B. Dick Company 
 matter, the minutes of the Committee of the Capitol 
 Commission show, under date of November 11th, 1891, 
 bills ordered paid, A. B. Dick Company, Comptroller's 
 vault fittings, $2,776.90, and for the Treasurer's office 
 fittings, $2,872.60. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — May I ask if bids had been sub- 
 mitted ? Does it appear from the minutes that bids were 
 submitted ? ' ' 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The clerk who has gone through it says 
 there is nothing in reference to it. 
 
 Senator Voorbees — That evidently explains the fact 
 that there are no bids on file except this. From that 
 it would look as if the Comptroller had gone ahead and 
 ordered this himself. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This is all that has been found, what has 
 been submitted to the Committee. 
 
 Eugene J. Murphy, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. What is this book that has just been produced ? A. That 
 is the ledger which shows the amount of money which Mr. 
 Moriarity and Mr. Mullins had in the firm. 
 
 Q. Is there any cash account in this ledger ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Under what head is it ? Under head of First National 
 Bank ; I guess you will find another account in there which will 
 have "cash," and then money drawn by both members of the 
 firm. 
 
 Q. Refer to the checks we were speaking of this morning. 
 The first check, jSTo. 9,521, for $239, and see if you can find it in 
 the ledger— it is dated July 19, 1890? A. July 19, to cash, $239. 
 
 Q. Page 491 of this ledger, is it charged to any body? A. It 
 is charged against the firm, the bank's credit, as having been 
 drawn from the bank. 
 
EUGENE J. MUBPHY. 157 
 
 Q. To what account does it go in the books? A. It doesn't 
 go to any. 
 
 Q. Refer to the next check, 10,148, March 23, 1891, for $200? 
 A. MuUins & Co. 
 
 Q. To whom is it charged ? A. To Mullins & Co. 
 Q. That is, the firm ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. It is not charged against any body. A. No, sir. 
 Q. Eefer to the next one, check for $158, June 6, 1891 — 
 10,346 ? A. It is charged here, the entry calls against John 
 Mullins. 
 
 Q. Now, I will refer to John Mullins' account. Refer to John 
 Mullins' account and see if it is charged to him. 
 
 Senator Daly — How much is that check ? 
 A. $158. It is not charged to him. 
 
 Q. Is there a charge to him on that day, June 6, 1891 ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But this $158 is not charged to him ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Can you trace it as being charged to any body ? J.. I can- 
 not. 
 
 Q. Refer to the next item, the one where the erasure occurred, 
 $1,500 check, 11,324, June 11, 1892? A. John Mullins, $1,500. 
 Q. Now, see if it is charged to John Mullins' account. A. It 
 is not. 
 
 Q. Does it appear to be charged to anybody ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Refer to the missing check, 11,031, February 26, 1892, for 
 $900. A. Mullins & Co., $900 ; there is an extra check mark 
 along side of it here denoting something. 
 
 Q. Will you please see if it is charged to any body ? A. It is 
 charged to Mullins & Co. It cannot be to any one's account. 
 
 Q. It is simply so much money gone out of the cash ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now refer to these other checks — 11,105, for $300, March 
 23, 1892, is that charged to anybody ? A. John Mullins & Co. 
 
 Q. There is no account under the name of John Mullins & Co. 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the next one, 11,172? A. John Mullins, $5,000, 
 April 12th, 1892. 
 
 Q. Now go to Mr. Mullins' account and see if it is there? A. 
 April 12th, 1892; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is charged to Mr. Mullins' account ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Tben that is correctly posted in the ledger, is it? A. Yes, 
 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Look at check 11,093, March 5th, 1892, to John Mulhns, 
 for $900— for that missing check ? A. John Mullins & Co., $900. 
 
158 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 Q. Charged to anybody ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, refer to the last one, 12,143? A. That is a canceled 
 check. 
 
 Q. Now, as to these missing checks and the three which we 
 have found, they are credited to the First National Bank as paid 
 by them, are they ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But they are not charged in your books to anybody ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Then the amount of money represented by those six checks 
 simply disappears from your books without any accounting ? A. 
 No trace of it ; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at this account with the First National Bank ; are the 
 other items that I have not drawn your attention to, are they 
 charged up to somebody, each of them, try one or two ? A. Take 
 the next one that comes ? 
 
 Q. Yes, take the first one that you come to ; I want to see how 
 the book is kept. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would like to ask whether those miss- 
 ing checks have been produced. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I have not; I don't know what checks 
 they are. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — They are mentioned in the subpoena that 
 was served upon you yesterday. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — But I haven't got them. 
 A. Page 313 of the new ledger, which contains an account 
 with the First National Bank, I find an entry, December 5th, 
 1892, the bank given credit for a check and John Savory's Son 
 & Co. for $38.83. 
 
 Q. Now look at Savory's account? A. I find here, on folio 
 218, John Savory's account that has been credited with a check ; 
 $38.83. 
 
 Q. Well, in this account, then — you are familiar with the way 
 this book was kept ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In this account with the First National Bank all these cash 
 items are in the usual way credited or debited to somebody? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. With the exception of these special ones we have called 
 attention to? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And these were simply charged on the cash book to John 
 Mullins & Co., which is the firm that owns these books ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They are not traced any further than the faot that the 
 money is gone ? A. No. 
 
EUGENE J. MUKPHV. 159 
 
 Q. Did you ever draw a trial balance ofl those books ? A. No, 
 sir; I never saw a trial balance while I was with them. 
 
 Q. You couldn't do it, could you ? A. No, sir ; it is impossi- 
 ble to be done. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would like for the Committee to get 
 an idea of what these checks are, of the money that has 
 disappeared from the account. 
 
 The first one is No. 9,521, July 19th, 1891, for |239. 
 That is the one that has in the stub the word " Ford." 
 
 The next one is No. 10,148, March 2Bd, 1891, $200. 
 That has in the stub the letter " F." 
 
 The next is 10,3i6, June 6th, 1891, $158. 
 
 The next is No. 11,031, February 26th, 1892, $900. 
 
 The next is 11,093, $900, March 5th, 1892. 
 
 The next is 11,105, March 23d, 1892, $300. 
 
 The next is 11,342, June 11th, 1892, for $1,500. 
 
 $239 
 200 
 158 
 900 
 900 
 ■ 300 
 1,500 
 
 Total $4,197 
 
 Mr. Corbin— The total of Mr. Mullins' bills, if you 
 leave out one which we have not referred to, furnishing 
 this Chamber, $6,998; take that from the $48,571, 
 leaves a balance of $41,573.21. 
 
 I suggest that there should also be perhaps deducted 
 —I don't know— a bill of 1887 for $64; another bill in 
 1887 of $29.51. I have not had an opportunity to study 
 these figures, but having the book here now for the first 
 time, I present them to the Committee for whatever 
 comparison it may be desirable to make. 
 
 I don't know, Mr. Chairman, that I have anything 
 further to go on with to-day. I should like an oppor- 
 tunity to examine this book. 
 
 Mr. Voorhees — With reference to the disposition of 
 these books ; does counsel wish to retain them ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would like to retain them for the 
 present; they had better remain here until the next 
 meeting of the Committee. 
 
160 EUGENE J. MUEPHY. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — When you have an expert here like this 
 Murphy to deal with, and my books and papers are left 
 in his possession to alter as he likes — 1 caught him 
 handling them yesterday ? 
 
 Senator Voorhees — We don't propose to have you, 
 Mr. Mullins, or anyone else, making statements imply- 
 ing that this witness has destroyed or tampered with 
 your books; it has been proven beyond any question 
 that they were destroyed while in your possession, and 
 we will protect Mr. Murphy while he is here. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The ledger which brings the operations 
 of the firm down to the present time has not been pro- 
 duced ; the ledger here is called " Personal Ledger," 
 and is a book which seems to be not now in use. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And the other book which was 
 ordered this morning has not yet come ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It seems not. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I would like to ask the Chairman of 
 the Committee when the other book will be produced. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — When can it be produced ? 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I don't know of any other book ; this 
 is the book that Mr. Murphy referred to. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — ISTow this matter might just as 
 well be determined now, and, Mr. Corbin, will you aid 
 the Committee in arriving at just exactly the book that 
 you want produced, and an order will be made, and Mr. 
 Mullins may disobey it at his risk. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — Mr. Mullins has no idea of disobeying 
 it ; that is an unjust implication. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — It seems very strange to me ; Mr. 
 Mullins must certainly know the book that this Com- 
 mittee wants. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — We have hunted and hunted for the 
 books you want. 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I brought the book and telephoned to 
 the gentleman that he referred to, and he said that he 
 didn't know it — the one that the bank account was 
 kept in, and I telephoned to him. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — There is no trouble about producing 
 everything. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I think, acting under the advice 
 of your counsel, Mr. Mullins, you will produce what 
 books we want. 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. 161 
 
 Mr. Mullins — I would make a suggestion to the Com- 
 mittee that, if Mr. Corbin would step in the store, I will 
 turn around and he can pick out what he wants, but I 
 can't close my business altogether. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is unnecessary for me to do that, nor 
 have I the time ; all we want is the private ledger 
 bringing the business down to the year 1895. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That was so stated this morning; 
 and by reference to a page in the account that Mr. 
 Murphy spoke of, that was transferred to page 117 of the 
 new ledger, and the new ledger is the one now in use ; 
 this book isn't in use. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will state it once more. Here are two 
 ledgers exactly alike in external appearance, marked 
 " Private Ledger " ; one succeeds the other, and in this 
 second one the accounts are all marked "transferred to 
 new ledger " ; that new ledger is the one I want to see ; 
 I have twice subpoenaed them to bring it, describing it 
 in detail. 
 
 Counsel say they want an opportunity to examine 
 these books, and now that we have the cash, we would 
 like an opportunity to examine them. I suppose a 
 single day, or possibly two days, will be sufficient for 
 our purposes. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — I understand then you are to have the 
 books for two days, and at the end of that time we are 
 to have them. 
 
 Mr, Corbin — I think we should have a full opportu- 
 nity to examine the books. They are in the custody of 
 the Committee, and I think they ought to remain there 
 until the Committee are done with them. These books 
 came before this Committee erased, cut and tampered 
 with, every one of them ; there isn't a clean book here, 
 unless it be this book that is produced this afternoon, 
 and I think the Committee should face the facts just as 
 they are. If they have a right to call for papers, they 
 have a right to make such examination of them as is 
 necessary, and while these gentlemen should doubtless 
 have the fullest opportunity to examine them, I think 
 that until the Committee is done with them they should 
 remain in the hands of the Committee; of course, in 
 reason, they should be within their custody. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — They are our books, and we simply 
 say that we want the State to have every opportunity, 
 
 11 SH 
 
162 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 or the Committee to have every opportunity, to examine 
 them. Mr. MuUins brought them here without any 
 thought as to their condition ; he is a large business 
 man ; he doesn't take care of the details of his book- 
 keeping; he was subpoenaed to bring his books here, 
 and he has brought them here ; if you are through 
 with them he wants them back; he is just as much 
 interested as you are to find out what his men have 
 been doing with his books. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Mr. Corbin states that he desires 
 to consult these books further. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — We are willing that he shall. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — And I think in his request he is 
 very reasonable, and he should not be limited as to time. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — We say we want them on Friday; we 
 will return them, and if they are any worse mutilated 
 than they are now — 
 
 Senator Voorhees — The Committee prefer not to per- 
 mit these books to go out of their control until after 
 this branch of their inquiry has been fully completed. 
 In fairness to Mr. Mullins and his counsel, permission 
 will be given to them to examine in a separate room, if 
 they so wish, and under their own surveillance, these 
 various books, but the Committee do not think these 
 books ought to leave their custody at this time ; I might 
 state that there are other accounts in those books that 
 we wish to look after. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — We will bow to the decision, but we 
 deny the right of the Committee in any way to keep 
 these books. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — We will assume the right, Mr. 
 Edwards. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — We may have to assume the remedy 
 then. 
 
 Mr. Voorhees — Well, I want to see the process of 
 the court that will get them out of our hands. 
 
 Mr. Edwards — You may see it. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Can counsel agree between them- 
 selves as to the time when the gentlemen representing 
 Mr. Mullins will have an opportunity to examine the 
 books ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think Senator Edwards and I will not 
 disagree about that. 
 
FURNISHING STATE HOUSE. 163 
 
 Senator Voorhees — The Committee do not propose 
 to hold these books for the purpoae of allowing evidence 
 to be made against Mr. Mullins in any other tribunal. 
 
 Senator Edwards — Oh, we have no fear or thought of 
 that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — We now have the cash before us for the 
 first time, and I desire to make an examination of the 
 books with the cash book before us. Anyone who 
 knows the least bit about books knows that you are all 
 at sea unless you have them all ; we have simply been 
 floundering around in the dark ; we haven't found 
 much, but we have found some things that are signifi- 
 cant. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I think there is no misunderstand- 
 ing as to the books Mr. Corbin wants, if there is such a 
 book, and I presume there is. Is there anything fur- 
 ther, Mr. Corbin ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — ISTo, sir. 
 
 Adjourned until Monday, March 18, 1895, at 10 o'clock A. M. 
 
 Tebnton, March 18th, 1895, 10 A. M. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I referred at the last hearing to several checks 
 drawn by Mullins & Company which were offered in evidence ; 
 there are some others in the same connection, there being in all 
 nine, to which I wish to direct the special attention of the Com- 
 mittee, and I wish to offer them all in evidence, and the stubs as 
 well, and I will ask this witness to refer to the stub books as I 
 call the numbers. I have prepared for the use of the Committee 
 a schedule showing these checks and the bearing which they 
 appear to have upon this matter, which I will submit to the 
 Committee. 
 
 The first is No. 9521, dated July 19th, 1890, to the order of 
 Cash, with the word " Ford " in the stub, already marked *' Ex- 
 hibit 93," for $239. 
 
 The next is 'So. 10148, to the order of Mullins & Company, 
 dated March 23d, 1891, with '• F " in the stub, for $200, already 
 marked in evidence as " Exhibit 94." 
 
 The next is 10346, dated June 6th, 1891, to the order of John 
 Mullins, with "Fo" in the margin of the stub, for $158, this 
 bein"' already marked " Exhibit 96." 
 
164 FURNIS^I^"G state house. 
 
 The next is 11031, dated February 26th, 1892, to the order of 
 MuUios & Co., for $900. I ask to have this stub marked "Ex- 
 hibit 118." 
 
 The next is check 11093, dated March 5th, 1892, to the order 
 ot Mullins & Co., for $900, which will be marked " Exhibit 119." 
 
 The next is 11105, dated March 23d, 1892, to the order of 
 Mullins & Co., with very striking blot and erasure, which seems 
 to me is recent, for $300, which will be marked " Exhibit 120." 
 
 The next is 11324, dated June 11th, 1892, to the order of John 
 Mullins, with an erasure under the word " Mullins," a knife 
 erasure. This has already been marked "Exhibit 98," and is for 
 $1,500. 
 
 The next is 12890, dated March 5th, 1894, to the order of John 
 Mullins, for $1,400 ; it has the figure 4, which is evidently written 
 over a partial erasure, and which I will submit to the Committee. 
 Referring to the other capital F's that we have seen, I suggest 
 whether that is not an F changed to a 4; I think it is so; this , 
 will be marked " Exhibit 121." 
 
 Finally, check 12916, dated March 3l8t, to self, for $400, with 
 a letter underneath which now looks like a B, but it is also 
 written over an erasure, and I submit whether it is F changed to 
 B; I do not know. This will be marked " Exhibit 122." 
 
 By the schedule which I have laid before the Committee it 
 will be seen that the total of these checks is $5,997, or just three 
 dollars scant of $6,000. By this same schedule, the Committee 
 will observe on this same schedule a list of all the bills of Mullins 
 & Co. against the State from 1890 to 1894, together with an indi- 
 cation of the account to which they are charged. You will 
 ■observe that the greater number of them are charged to State 
 House expense, the goods charged to that account going to the 
 old buildings of the Capitol. You will observe the next account 
 is furnishing now Capitol, which is the front building on the 
 street. Y^ou will observe another account for furnishing Assem- 
 bly Chamber, which is the new Assembly Chamber building, and 
 you will find below one other item, ventilating Senate Chamber, 
 which is a part of the old building. 
 
 If, now, the Committee will observe the calculation which I 
 have made of 10 per cent, on all the furniture which went into 
 the old buildings, and of 20 per cent, on all furniture which went 
 into the two new buildings, you will observe that these checks in 
 «ach case agree very closely to the amounts of the payments 
 made to Mullins & Co. 
 
 The first check was for $239, which I take it was intended for 
 
FURNISHING STATE HOUSE. 1G5 
 
 10 per cent, on the $2,391.52 which the State had recently paid 
 when that check was given. 
 
 The next one of these checks was a check- for |200 on March 
 23tl, 1891. You will observe that the State had paid recently a 
 bill for 11,740; if to this you will add $334 for goods found io 
 the ledger down to a point marked "to here," which has been 
 testified — concerning which testimony has been given by this 
 witness, you will see that there was due from the State at the 
 date of that check, $2,074. Assume that $200 is intended for 10 
 per cent, on that and you will have a fraction left over of $74. 
 
 The next check is June 6th, 1891. Meantime the State had 
 paid a bill of $991, of which $334 has been accounted for above; 
 also a bill for $645.75, and also an item had been charged to the 
 State on sales book 9, page 525, for $200 down to that time. Add 
 these items together and you will find the total to bo $1,578.37. 
 On that day the check was for $158, which is but a few cents 
 away from exactly 10 per cent. 
 
 The next three checks given should be treated together, I 
 think. February 26th, 1892, a check for $900 ; March 5th, 1892, 
 $900; March 23d, 1892, $300. Those three together, you will 
 observe, aggregate $2,100, paid within a few days of each other. 
 
 Now, you find by referring to the bills paid by the State, that 
 in January, 1892, a bill was paid for $311.38. Deduct from that 
 the item of $200, which I have already mentioned, and which 
 comes out of it, and the balance of that bill is $141.38. In Feb- 
 ruary the State paid $1,623.49, both of those charged to State 
 House expense. In February also for furuishrng new Capitdl, 
 $2,758.30; in March, for furnishing new Assembly Chamber, 
 $6,456.02, and in the same month for State House expense, 
 $1,739.41. Now, if you will cast up 10 per cent, on each of those 
 items which went to the old buildings, and 20 per cent, which 
 went for the new, you will find the total will be exactly $2,193.88. 
 There was paid, as I have stated, $2,100, leaving a fraction of 
 
 $93.38. 
 
 The next item is June 11th, 1892, and it is $1,500 ; that is the 
 item which has an erasure opposite. Now, taking the $93.38 frac- 
 tion which we had left over, and then observe again the bills 
 which the State has paid June, 1892— the iirst one is $3,615.43, 
 for the new Assembly Chamber; cast 20 per cent, on that. The 
 next one is for furnishing new Capitol, $630.69; add 20 per cent, 
 on that. Next, State House expense, same month, $3,970.29; 
 add 10 on that; and another for $627.06, the same date, add 10 
 on that ; and the total percentages will be $1,402 30. June 11th, 
 
166 EUGENE J. MUEPHY. 
 
 1892, is this check paid for $1,500, which, on my theory, would 
 seem to be an overpayment ot some ninety odd dollars. 
 
 I call attention that at this time everything seemed to be set- 
 tled up by the State; nothing more was done for a long number 
 of months. The next payment that I find is in March, March 
 5th, 1894, a check for $1,400, with F or 4 in the margin, and a 
 few days later, March 31st, 1894, $400 more, check made to 
 self, with F or B in the margin. Add those two together and 
 you will find the total to be $1,800. Now, the bills rendered in 
 
 1893, end in February and March, 1894, cast up without going 
 into them in detail — there were six or eight of them — cast up at 10 
 and 20 respectively, whether ior new or old work, amount to 
 $18,215, ol which 10 per cent, is $1,821.51. The $1,800 would 
 be jast that sum, less $21.51. As to the last item in this sched- 
 ule, the small bill of goods furnished in May, 1894, I have noth- 
 ing to trace with respect to it, but down to the Slst of March, 
 
 1894, I respectfully direct the attention of the Committee to 
 these coincidences. 
 
 Eugene J. Murphy, recalled. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Have you examined these ledgers to see whether the several 
 checks that I have called attention to have been charged to any- 
 body ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have any of them been charged up to anybody? A. No, sir. 
 Q. The money has been drawn from the cash, has it not? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But not posted to any ledger account? A. No, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There was one book which was directed 
 to be brought here, if the Committee please. 
 (Book produced by Mr. Hoffman.) 
 (J. See what that book is? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to use this book only for one 
 single purpose. In the account of St. Francis Hospital 
 and other accounts, which have been cut from the other 
 ledger, you recollect I found the other day and called 
 attention of the Committee to certain items in the sales 
 book which have been posted to page 14, St. Francis 
 Hospital, afterwards. It was just possible that that page 
 14 might mean this new ledger, but to absolutely exclude 
 any such idea I call attention now to the fact that page 
 14 is the account of one Alaire, and those accounts are 
 not transferred to the same pages in this ledger, show- 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. 167 
 
 ing, 1 think, with mathematical accuracy, that entries 
 were made in the mutilated ledger after November, 1893, 
 in the pages which are now gone ; and I find the St. 
 Francis Hospital account in this book, but it is on page 
 7, and the first entry made to it after the transfer to the 
 old ledger is March 14th, 1891. You will remember we 
 found entries on that same day, March 14th, 1894, in 
 the ledger of which only a margin remains to us, and 
 March 14th, 1894, seems to be the only entry in this 
 ledger of any of these transferred accounts. 
 Q. "Where were you born? A. I was born in 275 Central 
 Avenue, Jersey City. 
 
 Q. Where is your home now? A. Same place. 
 Q. Have you lived there all your life? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. How old are you ? A. Twenty-four years old. 
 Q. "Who was your father? A. My father, at the time of his 
 death, was principal of Public School ITo. 8, in Jersey City. 
 
 Q. "Where was your father born ? A. My father was born in 
 Ireland, Drummond, I believe. 
 
 Q. And when did he come to this country? A. He came here 
 when he was young, seven years old, I think. 
 
 Q. "Where did he live then V A. Chattahoocha, Tennessee. 
 Q. And where was he educated ? A. Lavane, France. 
 Q. In the University there? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And after his education what was his employment, his 
 occupation ? A. He was professor of mathematics at West 
 Point. 
 
 Q. And how long did he continue as professor at "West Point ? 
 A. Until the war was pretty well under way, September, 1861, 1 
 believe. 
 
 Q. Where did he go from West Point? A. Came to Jersey 
 City. 
 
 Q. And what occupation did he take up there? A. He got 
 to be principal of that No. 8 School. 
 
 Q. And did he continue in that position until the time tf his 
 death? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And in what year did he die? A. He died in February, 
 
 1875. 
 
 Q. Is your mother still living? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And other members of your family ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do they still occupy the homestead ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You are not married, Mr. Murphy ? A. N"o, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — How long were you in Mr. MuUins' 
 
168 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 employ. A. I was in his employ seven years and, I guess, about 
 a month. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Is Mr. Moriarty Mr. MuUins' partner ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Is he a relative of yours ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Daly) — What prompted you to make these dis- 
 closures to the Senate Committee ? A. Because Mr. Mullins, I 
 considered, had treated me unjustly. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Daly) — Well, then, the spirit that prompted you 
 was one of retaliation ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — And prompted by that spirit all the 
 way through, you have testified to these facts ? A. That is right. 
 Chairman Voorhees — Do I understand that a member 
 of this Committee seeks to discredit the witness ? 
 Senator Daly — ISTo; I want to get at the truth. 
 Senator Voorhees — He has testified solely from the 
 books. 
 
 Senator Dalj — I guess there is no question about that. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Mr. Mullins discharged you from his 
 employ ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — And discharged you the very day these 
 books were found cut? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — And mutilated ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — And the reason that he gave was for 
 participating in betting on race tracks, is that right? A. Yes, 
 sir ; and I would just like to explain that right here ; I want you 
 to understand that I had been taken there, driven there more 
 than once by Mr. Moriarty behind his trotter; on all holidays he 
 excused me a little earlier than usual in order to enable me 
 to go and play them. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Do you mean to say you imbibed .the 
 taste for race-tracks through Mr. Moriarty ? A. 1 don't say that; 
 but I want to say that they knew I was playing them all along, 
 and I have even been sent to play the races for the members of 
 the firm. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — For what ? A. Why, they wanted to 
 bet on them, and sent me to bet on them — gave me money and 
 told me to go down and do it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — You are a relative of Mr. Moriarty? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — What relation does he bear to you ? A. 
 I don't know ; it is too far back for me to get at ; I couldn't tell 
 you. 
 
EUGENE J. MURPHY. 169 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Is it a fact that the story you have dis- 
 closed here upon the witness stand, or part of it, that you offered 
 the same to a paper published in the city of New York for a con- 
 sideration ? A. Yes, sir ; I have. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — For a consideration ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — How often was Mr. Mullins at that 
 store ? A. Mr. Mullins used to come about half-past ten in the 
 morning, and you could expect him every day. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — How long would he stay? A. Prob- 
 ably an hour ; that was about his limit ; about an hour. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Then where would he go, so far as you 
 know ? A. We never knew where he went. 
 
 Examined by Senator Daly. 
 
 Q. He would absent himself then ; generally stay about an 
 hour during the day; is that it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. A portion of this period covered by these accounts, Mr. 
 Mullins was in Europe, was he not? ^1. Well, I think he went 
 to Europe three times during my stay with him. 
 
 Q. I mean from 1890 down to the present time, how frequently 
 was he in Europe? A. I don't remember just when he went. 
 From 1890 ? I ain't sure whether he was there once or not. 
 
 Q. And he had three places of business, one in Brooklyn, had 
 he not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And one in Paterson ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And one in Jersey City ? A. Yes, sir ; and one in Newark. 
 
 Q. He was the senior member of all these concerns ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Was he not? A. He was not. 
 
 Q. He was the capitalist of all these concerns? A. He was 
 not. 
 
 Q. Well, in the course of his business he went to the city of 
 Newark, Paterson, these several places, so far as you know? A. 
 And the Gutteuburg race-track, too. 
 
 Q. Yes, the Guttenburg race-track ; and, by the way, as you 
 have mentioned the Guttenburg race-track, he was there fre- 
 quently, too, and all the rest of the race-tracks ; is that not right? 
 A. That is right. 
 
 Q. And Mr. Mullins kept a stable of horses ? A. 1 believe he 
 had five or six, once. 
 
 Q. And the period covered by these transactions the racing 
 season was in vogue, was it not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And part of his time was spent there ? Yes, sir 
 
170 EUGENE J. MUEPHY. 
 
 Q. On an average he wouldn't spend over an hour a day at the 
 store? A. Well, I guess he spent about an hour in each of the 
 stores he went to. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Your attention was called to your being discharged on the 
 day that the books were discovered to be cut ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You said that was the day after election, 1893? A. Yes. 
 
 Q. How niany books were discovered that day to be cut ? A. 
 Two. 
 
 Q. These other four that are now found to be cut, were they 
 then cut? A. They were not. 
 
 Q. Did you ask Mr. Mullins to give you a letter of recom- 
 mendation upon leaving him, that you might use elsewhere? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was his reply to that? A. I think his reply was — 
 he said " ISTo, nor no one belonging to me will give you one, and 
 if you don't get out of here,"— well, he used a string of oaths at 
 me, that he would have me thrown out. 
 
 Q. Did he give any reason for discharging you, except that be 
 said you played the races ? A. No, sir ; that was all. 
 
 Q. How long was Mr. Mullins at the store on election day, 
 1893 ? A. He was there all day ; it was the first time I had ever 
 seen him there all day. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — When you were discharged on the 
 day after election, was there any other reason assigned for your 
 discharge excepting the fact that you were playing the races? 
 A. No, sir. I asked him why I was discharged ; I said, " I hope 
 you don't connect me in any way with the cutting of the books," 
 and he said " oh, no." 
 
 Q. He didn't discharge you for that, then ? A. He said he 
 wouldn't allow his own sou to play the races, and he wouldn't 
 allow strangers. 
 
 Q. Did he charge you with any dishonesty ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you handle any cash while you were there ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Those books you have there you haven't 
 been examined in relation to; do they cover the period of time 
 Mr. Ford was Custodian of the State House ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You have only been asked to examine from the time Mr. 
 Ford was the Custodian? A. In what way do you mean ? 
 
 Q. I mean in reference to sales to the State House ? I started 
 in with every item that is in these books that were brought over, 
 part of the State House account. 
 
EUGENE J. MUKPHY. 171 
 
 Q. That is, from the time Mr. Ford — A. From the time that 
 any one in these books that Mr. Mullins brought. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Were there any goods sold to the 
 State by Mullins & Co. before Mr. Ford's administration here? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q,. (By Senator Skirm) — And you have examined the books 
 prior to that? A. Those books are not here; I cannot examine 
 them. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Where are they? A. I don't know 
 where he has them; whether he has got them, I don't know. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Before this witness retires, I wish to 
 draw attention to one other matter with reference to 
 these books. I wish at this time to refer to certain 
 checks in these books, which I do not say refer to the 
 subject we now have under investigation, but which I 
 desire to have marked for identification. 
 Q. Mr. Murphy, will you reier to these stub books No. 9,173, 
 March Slst, 1890, to the order of cash, $600 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that check charged to anybody? A. No, sir. ("Ex- 
 hibit 123.") 
 
 No. 9,658, September 22d, 1890, to the order of cash, 
 v/ith the capital letter M below it, $90. ("Exhibit 
 124.") 
 
 No. 10,613, September 14th, 1891, to the order of 
 
 John Mullins, for $1,605, which will be " Exhibit 125." 
 
 No. 11,170, April 11th, 1892, to the order of cash, 
 
 with a knife erasure underneath it, $50. ("Exhibit 
 
 126.") 
 
 11,173, April 20th, 1892, to the order of Mullins & 
 Crouin, $185.07. (" Exhibit 127.") 
 
 11,731, December 10th, 1892, to the order of John 
 Mullins, for $1,000. (" Exhibit 128.") 
 
 11,859, January 30th, 1893, to the order of Mullins 
 &Co., $75. ("Exhibit 129.") 
 
 12,018, April 7th, 1893, to the order of Mullins & Co., 
 $320, with an erasure below — knife erasure. (" Exhibit 
 130.") 
 
 12,557, November 6th, 1893, to the order of John 
 Ettelstein, $100. (" Exhibit 131.") 
 
 12,632, November 17th, 1893, to the order of Mullins 
 & Cronin, $168,86. ("Exhibit 132.") 
 
 I also desire to draw attention to three charges for 
 which we have not the stub books here, because they 
 do not come down to a sufficiently recent date. 
 
172 EUGENE J. MURPHY. 
 
 October 5th, 1894, check to the order of Mullins & 
 Cronin, for $113.82. (This cannot be marked as it is in 
 the ledger.) 
 
 October 16th, 1894, to John Mullins, $83.26. 
 
 December 6th, 1894, John Mullins, $215.64. 
 Q. Mr. Murphy, have you examined to see if these checks are 
 charged to any special account ? A. Yes, sir ; I have. 
 Q. Are they ? A. ISo, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire, Mr. Chairman, to draw the 
 attention of the Committee to another subject connected 
 with the State House management, and that is the sub- 
 ject of the supply of fuel. I have a schedule here which 
 I will submit, taken from the file as certified by the 
 Comptroller, showing that the amounts are correct, 
 showing that the supply of coal for the State House for 
 the last ten years has cost the following sums : 
 
 1885 $1,765 33 
 
 1886 2,538 43 
 
 1887 846 99 
 
 1888 2,223 64 
 
 1889 3,128 80 
 
 1890 2,517 64 
 
 1891 2,037 70 
 
 For these seven years the average is $1,865.64 per year. 
 For the year 1892, it was $4,884.28 ; for the year 1893, 
 it was $7,472 44, aud for the year ending October 3l8t, 
 1894, it was $9,010.50. The average for those last three 
 years was $7,122 per year as against $1,865. 
 
 It is but fair that I should draw the attention of Com- 
 mittee to this fact at this point — the new Capitol, being 
 the new front building, was opened in the year 1889. 
 It was larger than the old front; it does not, however, 
 appear to have increased very much the supply of coal. 
 There are years after that when the cost was smaller 
 than before. The new Assembly Chamber was occupied 
 in January, 1892; it is larger than the previous one; 
 there was an Assembly Chamber there before to be 
 heated, but the new one is double the size, perhaps, of 
 the former one, and the electric plant was put in some- 
 where in 1890 or 1891, possibly 1892, somewhere along 
 there. But the change which I wish to direct the 
 attention of the Committee to, in view of the evidence 
 
WILLIAM LETTS. 173 
 
 which I am about to produce, is that the fuel bills 
 speedily jumped from $1,865 a year to $7,100. 
 
 Senator Daly — What is it this year ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have been getting the bills together to- 
 day, but only a small part of this fiscal year, which 
 begins ISTovember 1st, 1894, has passed. The bills are 
 now coming in from day to day, and coal is being 
 delivered. So far as I have looked at them, they seem 
 considerably less than the bills for the past two years. 
 
 Senator Daly — When did they commence to furnish 
 the coal in 1894 ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I should judge by these bills that there 
 was coal every month in the year, more or less, except- 
 ing possibly a few summer months. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Wasn't there a very large amount 
 of coal there just prior to the termination of Mr. Ford's 
 office ■? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes ; I desire to call attention to the 
 fact that of the $9,010 spent for coal that year, all but 
 $1,300 was furnished by Major Michael Hurley within 
 the last few months just preceding, the bills being about 
 $1,100 a month for several months. 
 
 Senator Daly — All that coal was used, evidently. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I wouldn't wish to testify to that fact; I 
 am not sure. 
 
 William Letts, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Trenton. 
 
 Q. And what is your employment? A. Fireman. 
 
 Q. For the State House here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been employed here at the State House ? 
 A. Fourteen or fifteen years. 
 
 Q. In the same capacity? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When coal comes here where is it delivered ? A. It is de- 
 livered to the bin, or else the doors. 
 
 Q. Where is the bin ? A. The bin is just this side of the fire 
 
 room. 
 
 Q. What is its capacity ? A. Well, I should judge the present 
 one will hold over 200 tons. 
 
 Q. You have a larger one now than you had formerly ? A . 
 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was to the time the new Assembly Chamber was 
 
174 WILLIAM LETTS. 
 
 built? A. Yes, sir; the old one held 100 ton; that is the reason 
 I should judge this one would hold 200. 
 
 Q. You say -some of it is delivered at the doors; what additional 
 capacity have you for that which is delivered at the doors ? A. 
 Well, I have at my doors room for about two loads ; that fills me 
 up. 
 
 Q. That is how much? A. Well, the load runs from 2,700 to 
 2,800; Mr. "Wilson's loads run larger than that, 3,600. 
 
 Q. What loads do you mean, then, run from 2,700 to 2,800? 
 A. Mr. Hurley's; 2,900, some of them. 
 
 Q. Did you receive the coal that came from Michael Hurley in 
 the years 1889, 1890, 1891, 1892, 1893 and 1894? A. Yes, sir; 
 part of it. 
 
 Q. Now, when the driver came with a load of coal what did he 
 bring with him ? A. Brought a book. 
 
 Q. What did this book have ? A. Had a receipt for coal, and 
 the weight, and duplicate attached. 
 
 Q. Who sent for the coal ? A. I did, generally. 
 
 Q. And you say it had a duplicate; did you take off the dupli- 
 cate? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do with this duplicate ? A. Put it on file. 
 
 Q. Where? A. On a wire we had in the engine room. 
 
 Q. Would that show the weight of the coal ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you got one for every load that came in ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (J. What did you do with those duplicates ? A. Mr. Boyd 
 would take them up once a week or so to Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. Mr. Boyd was the engineer? A. Yes, sir ; chief engineer. 
 
 Q. Where are they now? A. I couldn't tell you now; I never 
 saw them after they left the wire. 
 
 Q. They would remain with you only a few days ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have any trouble with the quality of the coal Mr. 
 Hurley delivered there? A. Yes, sir; some of it was very bad. 
 
 Q. When did that trouble begin ? A. Well, I can't exactly tell. 
 
 Q. Did it continue during the period of Mr. Hurley's deliv- 
 eries of coal here ? A. Most of it. 
 
 Q. What was the trouble with it ? A. Slatey. 
 
 Q. Did you make complaints ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it remedied? A. IsTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you continue to make complaints? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To whom did you complain? A. I complained to Mr. 
 Boyd. 
 
 Q. Did you complain to anybody else ? A. Finally, I went to 
 Mr. Ford. 
 
WILLIAM LETTS. 175 
 
 Q. State what you said to Mr. Ford, the Superintendent, about 
 it, and what he said. A. I told Mr. Ford that the coal was very 
 bad, and I couldn't fire it — it was impossible to keep up steam 
 without very hard work. " Well," says he, " if it aint good 
 coal, don't receive it," he says, " send it back; " he says, " there 
 is no commission iu this." 
 
 Q. Ifo commission in this — no commission in this coal? A. 
 No, sir; and the coal was stopped for three or four days, and 
 finally the same article came back again, and I said nothing 
 more ; I thought there was no use. 
 
 Q. About when was that last complaint that you made? A. 
 Well, I couldn't tell exactly ; it was last winter some time, I 
 think. 
 
 Q. What boilers have you which you have to fire for the State 
 House? A. The heating boilers. 
 Q. How many ? A. Two. 
 
 Q. And what other boilers have you ? A. Electric. 
 Q. How many ? A. Two. 
 
 Q. How many days in the year do you run the electric plant ? 
 A. All the year around, with the exception of holidays and 
 Sundays. 
 
 Q. Holidays and Sundays it is shut down, is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Have you made a computation of the amount of coal which 
 you use ? A. Yes, sir; as near as I can state. 
 
 Q. And tell me first how you know how much you use ; ex- 
 plain that? A. Well, I know what I use in the fire room; we 
 would have the load of coal dumped in there and the weight 
 would be marked, and another load come, and burn that up, and 
 another load come, and so on. 
 
 Q. That is, you have loads of coal, of which you know the 
 weight, dumped at the door ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that when you have burned up a load of coal, you know 
 just how many pounds you have burned? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you made those experiments frequently ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And do you now ascertain how much you burn? A. 
 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much does it take to run your electric plant, which 
 you say runs all the while except Sundays and holidays? A. 
 About a ton and a half in twenty-four hours. 
 
 Q. And that runs something over 300 days in the year? A. 
 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When did you start up your heating plant ? A. Well, we 
 generally in October, say, according to the weather; if the 
 
176 THOMAS E. BOYD. 
 
 weather gets cool, in October, about the latter part of October, 
 somewhere along there — say the 15tb. 
 
 Q. And do you fire up everything before the Legislature 
 comes, or only part. A. Only part. 
 
 Q. How much do you burn a day in that heating plant before 
 the Legislature comes and these halls are heated? A. From 
 October to December, I should judge about two tons. 
 
 Q. About two tons a day ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. After the Legislature comes how much do you burn per 
 day while they are in session? A. Five tons. 
 
 Q. And alter they retire you go back to the two tons again ? 
 A. Well, about this time of the year — about in March — towards 
 approaching Spring, we get reduced down to about two tons. 
 
 Q. And then when do you shut off the heat from the building? 
 A. About the middle of May — somewhere along there. 
 
 Q. These figures that you have given me, they are sufficient to 
 cover your consumption of coal, are they "> A. 1 think so. 
 
 Q. They figure up something between ten and eleven hundred 
 tons, do they not? A. I don't know what they figure up. 
 
 Q. Supposing the heat commences on the 15th of October and 
 runs until May 20th; you have figured the amount something 
 less than eleven hundred tons? A. I don't know what it fig- 
 ured up. 
 
 Q. It is a matter of easy calculation, of course ? A. There are 
 about thi'ee or four months in the year that we run five tons ; 
 when it gets along in May we probably won't burn a half a ton 
 or a ton, according altogether to the weather. 
 
 Q. How has this present winter been for it as compared with 
 others ? A. Pretty hard. 
 
 Q. More coal than usual? A. I think we burned more this 
 winter than we have any winter yet. 
 
 Q. You spoke of the trouble you had with this coal of Michael 
 Hurley; how did the quality of coal compare with what you had 
 before you had his coal and what you have had since ? A. 'Eo 
 comparison with it at all. 
 
 Q. What was the trouble with the coal — Hurley's coal ? A. 
 It was bad coal — slatey, bony, bird's-eye stuff, and it was bad 
 coal, there is no use talking ; I don't know how to describe it. 
 
 Q. What size coal do you use ? A. Broken. 
 
 Thomas E. Boyd, sworn. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. In the city of Trenton. 
 Q. Were you formerly chief engineer of the State House? 
 A. I was. 
 
THOMAS E, BOYD. 177 
 
 Q. For what period? A. Four years and one month. 
 
 Q. Ending when? A. Last June; the first of last June, I 
 think it is. 
 
 Q. Do you know what became of the record of coal received 
 that was kept by the fireman? A. No; we used to put them all 
 on file ; when we got one or two or three months it would get 
 full, and we used to throw them away, never preserved them. 
 
 Q. When the coal bills came in were they checked up by 
 these ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. By whom ? A. By myself. 
 
 Q. Did you deliver any of these to the Superintendent of the 
 State House ? A. Delivered them all to him ; that is, we delivered 
 them — Hurley would send ^ his bill in with the day and date, and 
 I would have to go over all those stubs and compare them ; if it 
 was correct I would sign the bill " correct," if it was not we 
 wouldn't sign the bill. 
 
 Q. What ultimately became of those duplicate receipts ? A. 
 Well, I couldn't tell you; they were left upon the string ; I sup- 
 pose the string — the wire — would hold some two or three months 
 of them, and then we would get them and dump them off, when 
 a new lot would come in. 
 
 Q. Were they preserved by anybody? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was there any record of coal kept at the State House other 
 than that ? J,. I don't understand exactly what you mean. 
 
 Q. Did you keep any record besides these slips ; did you enter 
 it in any book ? A. 'So, sir. 
 
 Q. Then there is nothing to show here now what coal was re- 
 ceived further thau the bills which have been rendered ? A. No, 
 sir ; not that I know of. 
 
 Q. Look at these bills, beginning May, 1894, and running 
 back ; is this your approval on them, " Thomas E. Boyd " ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; that is my approval. 
 
 Q. Did you have the coal weighed on any public weigher 
 scales? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where was it weighed ? A. On Mr. Hurley's scale. 
 
 Q. And you had no check upon it except the slips which the 
 driver brought? A. Just the slip which the driver brought; 
 only we would recognize by the load of coal ; the wagon would 
 hold a ton and a quarter of coal, about ; that would be 2,240 
 pounds ; they had run up to 2,700 or 2,800 pounds in the wagon. 
 
 Q. Who bought the coal ? A. Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. You had nothing to say about that ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do with this coal that came in the fall of 
 1893 and spring of 1894? A. Burned it. 
 
 12 SH 
 
178 MICHAEL HUKLEY. 
 
 Q. "Well, I observe that for seven months about $1,100 worth 
 of coal came each month ; what did you do with it when it 
 actually came? A. Well, we put it in the bin, as far as the bin 
 would hold. 
 
 Q. After you got the bin full where did you put it then? A. 
 He just filled it every day and then he dumped two or three 
 tons, or perhaps four tons, in front of the small heating boilers ; 
 we would use that during the day in cold weather. 
 
 Q. Didn't you get all chock-a-block there with coal? A. 
 When I left, I left two hundred tons of coal in the building ; on 
 the 1st day of June I left; the two hundred tons of coal filled it 
 full ; Mr. Hurley did, when I quit on the Ist of June. 
 
 •<^, Whoiordered that? J.. Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. Didn't you have to fill all orders? A. No; he kept us 
 going alljthe time ; we wouldn't let it go within fifty tons of being 
 out, so that something might happen ; had coal ready so we 
 wouldn't be short of coal. 
 
 Q. How do you account for the fact that the deliveries of coal 
 during the winter of 1893 and 1894 so far surpassed all other de- 
 liveries? A. There was no electric plant. 
 
 Q. You have heard what that takes to run it, one ton and a 
 half ? A. It is the biggest ton and a half you ever seen. 
 
 Q. You think it takes more than that ? A. It will take nearly 
 two tons of coal to run the small plant, but the big plant would 
 take four tons. 
 
 Q. You didn't keep the run of what was put in there; A. Yes, 
 I did ; we could tell pretty near by the wheel-barrow that it 
 run up, 
 
 Q. The more accurate way would be to take a note of the 
 actual loads that went in, wouldn't it ? A. The electric light 
 plant, we used to dump it in front of those boilers ; we could 
 store about thirty tons there: in front of the boilers we could 
 store two or three tons ; we had a capacity for storing, I suppose, 
 about two hundred and fifty tons of coal there at one time, taking 
 the space in front of the electric boilers. 
 
 Michael Hurley, sworn. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Has it been the course, Mr. 
 Corbin, to advertise for proposals for furnishing supplies 
 of this character? 
 
 xVIr. Corbin — I have seen no evidence of anything of 
 the sort; I don't think there is anything of the sort. 
 Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Hurley ? A. Trenton. 
 
WILLIAM D ARCY. 179 
 
 Q. Have you brought your books in obedience to the subpoeaa 
 that was served upon you 2 A. I have, sir. 
 Q. Will you produce them, please ? 
 
 (Witness stood aside for the bookkeeper to be sworn.) 
 
 William D'Aecy, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Trenton, New Jersey. 
 
 Q. Are you bookkeeper for Michael Hurley, the former wit- 
 ness ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you kept his books ? A. Since 1891. 
 
 Q. Have you the books here showing coal scales ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Show me first the book of receipts which the driver car- 
 ries, showing coal delivered to the State House? A. I haven't 
 got them. 
 
 Q. Haven't got it ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where is it? A. We didn't think it was necessary, they 
 accumulated so fast ; we put them in the closet first and the mice 
 got at them and destroyed them and we burned them up. 
 
 Q. I have no doubt they accumulated pretty fast? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Well, now, when was it the mice ate them up? A. About 
 
 1892 or 1893. 
 
 Q. Well, now, the latter part of 1893 or 1894, what I want to 
 Bee — show me 1894, that the mice didn't eat? A. We haven't 
 them. 
 
 Q. Who ate them? A. Nobody; we burned them up. 
 
 Q. When did you burn them ? 
 
 Mr. Voorhees — Was that because the mice ate those ? 
 
 A. No, sir. The last coal we delivered was in May, I think ; I 
 cleaned up the office and cleaned out the closet. 
 
 Q. The last coal yon delivered ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To whom? ^. Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. When did you burn the book? A. Along in August or 
 September. 
 
 Q. Well, did that book have anything in it except what was 
 delivered to Mr. Ford ? A. Oh, yes, it had other accounts, for 
 the Trenton Crockery Company, the State Arsenal and Public 
 Schools. 
 
 Q. Are those public accounts ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And they are all burned ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How about the last of 1894, is that burned too? A. Yes, 
 sir. Oh, we have several of them in the office dating from Sep- 
 tember and October, 1894. 
 
180 WILLIAM d'aRCY. 
 
 Q. Those are not yet burned ? A. N"o, sir. 
 
 Q. Any public accounts in those? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 0. Well, what public accounts are in those? A. State Arsenal, 
 I think some for the Public Schools. 
 
 Q. Well, now, let us go back to some the mice didn't eat 
 previous to 1891. Where is 1889 and 1890? A. We haven't 
 them. 
 
 Q. Where are they ? A. Burned up. 
 
 Q. When did they get burned ? A. When I cleaned the ofiBce 
 out. 
 
 Q. This last tall ? A. Oh, no. 
 
 Q. What other books did you burn besides — 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — When did you burn those ? 
 
 A. 1889 and 1890. Well, within six months after the bill was 
 paid. 
 
 Q. Well, did the mice leave any fragments to you of those 
 books of 1892 or 1893 ? J.. I wouldn't leave the fragments there. 
 
 Q. Is there anything they left there ? A. It was to make 
 room for more records that I destroyed them. 
 
 Q. Are the books there in their mutilated condition ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Where are the mutilated books that the mice left before? 
 A. They are burned. 
 
 Q. When were they burned up ? A. When I cleaned out the 
 office. 
 
 Q. When did you clean out the office? A. Once or twice a 
 year. 
 
 Q. Who burned them ? ^. I did. 
 
 Q. Where did you take them to burn them ? A. In the stove, 
 threw them in the fire. 
 
 Q. This last summer, when you burned them in August or 
 September, you didn't have any fire in the stove to burn books 
 with? A. No, but we never took down the stove. 
 
 Q. You built a fire for this purpose? A. No, not directly. 
 
 Q. But you hadn't a fire going there in August, had you ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who told you to build up a fire and burn these books ? 
 A. Nobody. 
 
 Q. Did it by the light of nature, did you ? ^4. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What else did you burn besides those receipt books ? A. 
 Oh, several old circulars and manifests, &c. 
 
 Q. Circulars and manifests? A. Well, whatever printed 
 matter, circulars or pamphlets would accumulate. 
 
 Q. Any other books? .1. No, sir — yes, sir, one cash book. 
 
WILLIAM d'aKCY. 181 
 
 Q. Well, now, wheu you have a salt against somebody wheu 
 he doesn't pay his coal bill owing you, how do you prove that 
 you delivered him the coal ? A. How far back would you want 
 to go? 
 
 Q. Well, go a year? A. Oh, we have got all those records. 
 
 Q. You have got the coal that was delivered the year past ? 
 A. We have them for six years past — we have the order books. 
 
 Q. You haven't got the receipt books for any time back of 
 last September ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You haven't any receipt book here at all ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. They are all burned except the one now in use ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you keep that same system of duplicate receipt books ? 
 A. Yes, sir; the driver carries a book and gets from the person 
 receiving the coal a receipt on the stub. 
 
 Q. And the fire and mice have destroyed up to September last? 
 A. Ye3, sir. 
 
 Q. And you have delivered no coal in the State House since ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. After this receipt comes back what book does the coal next 
 go into ? A. We post it to the order book. 
 
 Q. Have you got the order book here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who keeps that ? A. I do. 
 
 Q. It doesn't go into the order book before the receipt, then, 
 but after? A. After they receipt for it we sum up the total of 
 each day's run and post it to the order book. 
 
 Q. And then from the order book where does it go? A. To 
 the ledger. 
 
 Q. Not into a journal or sales book or day book? A. No, sir. 
 The order book is the sales book. 
 
 Q. Let me see your order book. Do the mice still bother you 
 in your office? ^. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you set any traps for them ? A. Oh, yes, certainly, 
 
 Q. Did you catch any? A. Yes, sir, a few. 
 
 Q. Couldn't catch them all? A. Not quite. 
 
 Q. This seems to be your ledger? A. That is the ledger, yes, 
 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Give me the order book for 1893 and 1894. A. There is 
 one for 1893. 
 
 (j/. Do you have any iron safe in your office ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why don't you put your Dooks in the safe? A. It won't 
 hold them all. 
 
 Q. You did put some in it? A. All the ledgers and principal 
 books, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you put these order books in it? A. No, sir. 
 
182 WILLIAM d'aECY. 
 
 Q. The mice didn't seem to get at the order books? A. Yes, 
 they did. 
 
 Q. Where is it? A. There is one of them. 
 
 Q. Oh, they did get at the back of that one — that is mice, is it ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 ^. Is this order book No. 11 in your handwriting? A. Most 
 of it, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I see under each item there is a red ink entry, " delivered 
 by Lehey," " delivered by Clancey," and so on ? A. Those are 
 the drivers that delivered the orders. 
 
 §. What are these red ink marks ofi to the left-hand margin? 
 A. Those are the check entries opposite to page 364, 158 and so 
 on down. 
 
 Q. To show to whom you charged them? A. Yes, sir. The 
 account was transferred. 
 
 §. Well, take this order book and turn to it as I draw your 
 attention to some items, and first tell me what dates does that 
 book cover, give me the first and last entries in it ? A. May 2d, 
 1892, beginning, March 23d, 1893. 
 
 Q. Now, haven't you one fetching it up to 1894 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. 1893 and 1894 I want. A. Beginning March 24th, 1893, 
 ending March 14th, 1894. 
 
 §. Fetch it up a little later still. A. Yes, sir; March 15th, 
 1894, beginning, and ending this morning. 
 
 §. Before we leave this order book 12, do you know why that 
 last page of the book is cut ? A. Yes, sir ; there was an entry 
 there when we got it from the " True American " ; I think it is 
 the number. 
 
 Q. Did you cut it ? A. Yes, sir, I cut it off. 
 
 Q. Any entries cut out with it? A. No, sir; there is no 
 entries there. 
 
 (2- Now, under the entry of May Ist, 1894, for example, I see 
 charged to the State House 11,910 pounds broken coal, $27.91; 
 is that your handwriting? That is my handwriting. 
 
 Q. Where did you get the data from which to make up that 
 entry? A. From stubs. 
 
 Q. Stubs of what? A. From the stubs which the people re- 
 ceipted for coal here at the State House. 
 
 Q. That is the book that is now eaten or burned ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (2- Who gave you the price? A. Mr. Hurley. 
 
 Q. Who weighed the coal ? A. I did. 
 
 Q. Got the weight books here? A. Those are the weight 
 books. 
 
 Q,. Those receipt boolis? A. Yes, sir. 
 
WILLIAM d'aRCY. 183 
 
 Q. The mice didn't eat your weights too? A. Tee, sir. 
 • Q. And you had no weight book except this weight book that 
 the driver carried? A. That is all. 
 
 Q.' Which the driver carried around? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the mice got at them all? A. Mostly all, except what 
 I have got in the office yet. 
 
 Q. Is that a bound book? A. Fo, sir; made up very cheap, 
 just a pasteboard back. 
 
 Q. How big a book ? A. Fifty pages in a book. 
 
 Q. And you put the weight right down in those books ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it in ink or pencil ? ^. In ink. 
 
 Q. And that is the only record of weights you had ? A. That 
 is all. 
 
 Q. Nothing in your office ; don't you have a weighing book 
 lying on the shelf? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Never had a weight book? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did this coal go to any public schools ? A. No, sir. ^ 
 
 Q. Bat you put it down in these little cheap books which the 
 drivers carried around with them in their pockets ? A. They 
 carried them around until — they were expected to turn the book 
 into the office immediately on coming back from every order. 
 
 Q. If they lost that book you had no record of anything as to 
 how much coal had gone out? A. Yes, sir; the order book. 
 
 Q. But you say this order book was not made up until after 
 this order book was delivered, you told me? A. We would 
 keep a sheet of the amount of coal on each load until we charged 
 it. 
 
 Q. Suppose the driver delivered five loads in a day, he carried 
 the book with him all day, didn't he ? A. No, sir ; on coming 
 back from the State House he came over to the scale every time 
 and delivered the book to me, and I kept it until I weighed the 
 next load. 
 
 Q. You kept the book until you weighed the next load? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then he took it and went to the State House again ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When he came with his fifth load he would have five loads 
 there? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And if that happened to fall into the Delaware river, you 
 would have no record of the weights in your office ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; but we didn't have any fall in the river. 
 
 Q. But there was no other record kept of the weights, except 
 in those books which the drivers carried ? A. That is all. 
 
184 WILLIAM d'arCY. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorheea) — How do you keep your stock 
 accountB? A. "We don't keep none. 
 
 Q. You kept no account of the stock you had on hand and the 
 deliveries out of it? J.. Fo, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there anything in your ledger showing merchandise 
 account? A. There may be ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Does that show quantities of coal brought into your stock 
 and quantities sent out ? A. It shows the amount paid for the 
 year. 
 
 Q. In dollars or in tons ? A. In dollars. 
 
 Q. J^ot in tons ? A. No, sir ; we charged it from invoice re- 
 ceived from shipments. 
 
 Q. Let U8 look at a few of these and see what the mice have 
 left. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Who did the weighing ? J.. I did 
 most of the weighing. 
 
 Q. Who else weighed? A. Well, the former bookkeeper when 
 he*" was there. 
 
 Q. Well, during your period of four years anybody else weigh 
 besides you ? A. No, sir ; I was only a few minutes away from 
 the office ; never away when we would have a busy day. 
 
 Q. But when you were away of course somebody else took 
 the weights ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. bid you say the entries in these small books were in ink 
 or pencil? A. In ink. 
 
 Q. You delivered coal practically every day, didn't you, to the 
 State House? A. Yes, sir; pretty much. 
 
 Q. And how soon after the coal was delivered would it be 
 entered in this book? A. The same day. 
 
 Q. You posted these books at night, did you, those little 
 books? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was your rule ? A. That was the rule ; yee, sir. 
 
 Q. When you put down these prices, did you put them down 
 first in ink or pencil ? A. In ink. 
 
 Q. I see some of them appear to be in pencil, and inked over. 
 The State House stood at the head of your account every day, 
 didn't it ? A. Yes, eir. 
 
 Q. It was your biggest customer by considerable, wasn't it? 
 A. Oh, I don't know, we had several very big contracts at that 
 time. 
 
 Q. During this period that we have under examination it was 
 your largest, wasn't it? A. Yes, sir; we were sending some 
 pretty much every day. 
 
WILLIAM d'aKCY. 185 
 
 Q. You always found your coal was welcome every day ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; that was the orders, to send some every day, so that 
 they wouldn't have to wheel. 
 
 Q. Now, take this item of May 14, State House, 11,930 pounds 
 broken coal ; that 11,930 I suppose is the total of all the cart 
 loads that would be delivered there that day? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You totaled up what you found in these several drivers' 
 books and entered it here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that is all the record you kept ? A. Yes, sir; that is 
 all. 
 
 Q. You can't say, for example, except by guess-work, how 
 many cart loads there were ; there is nothing there to indicate 
 how many cart loads were delivered? A. Yes, sir; Carlin de- 
 livered two and Dettler two. 
 
 Q. Have you got one of your weight books here, your receipt 
 books? A. We didn't bring them down, no. sir. 
 
 Q. Can you send for and get them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I wish you would do it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — You will have them here in the 
 afternoon session, will you, please ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is this your ledger account ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 0. From what book is this posted ? A. That is posted from 
 this book here. 
 
 Q. Have you your cash book here ? A. Yes, sir, the latest one. 
 
 Q. Covering 1890 to 1894 ? A. Yes, sir, starting 1892. 
 
 Q. Well, let us see it ? A. (Witness produces the same). 
 
 Q. Come up to the present time? A. We had a new one in 
 the office, yes, sir, starting the first of this year. 
 
 Q. You keep this ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are your books kept so that you draw off trial balances 
 from them? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't draw off any trial balance ? A. No. 
 
 Q. Why not? A. He never asked for one. 
 
 Q. Have you never balanced these books since you have kept 
 them? A. Balanced them at the end of the year, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Balance your cash you mean ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, do you balance anything eise besides your cash? A. 
 Balance all the accounts, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But you made no trial balance from the books in four years ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What have these got in; anything besides coal? A. Every 
 account is entered. 
 
 Q. Wood and coal and what else ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
186 WILLIAM d'aECY. 
 
 Q. What else ? A. If we did any contracting for other parties 
 it would be in there too. 
 
 Q. Just show me from this book — it seems to be all debit 
 carried from one page to the next — where is the credit side of 
 your cash ? A. Those are all credits. 
 
 Q. Well, then where are your debits ; this seems to be carried 
 from one page to the next and then that carried over, the total 
 of each day's cash footed up and the stock made ? A. Yes, then 
 we start new on the next one. 
 
 §. Where does that cash go to, what book ? A. It must be 
 on the ledger. 
 
 §. Now for example, take January 1st, 1894 ; you begin cash in 
 the box $53.91? A. Yes. 
 
 Q. AaA add to that all the penny items of that day? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Money you took in that day? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where is the money you paid out that day ? .4. I haven't 
 got the disbursement book here. 
 
 <2. You keep two cash books ? A. No, that is the only cash 
 book we have. 
 
 Q. It is nothing but your debit cash ; where is the credit cash? 
 A. The cash is credited on the ledger. 
 
 Q. You have got another one showing your payments out, 
 haven't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where is that? A. That is in the office. 
 
 Q. That I shall want ; now, where do these daily totals 
 go ; what is the account in here that will show it in the ledger ; 
 is this kept the same way? A. Those are paid cash on delivery. 
 
 §. Not totaled at all ? A. Yes, sir; that is not my writing. 
 
 Q. Eefer to your ledger, page 67, headed " Cash customers," 
 with a great multitude of small items? A. That we haven't got. 
 
 Q. Bat look at the ledger; these pages don't appear to be 
 footed up at all; are they not carried to any other account? A. 
 That is not my writing ; I don't know anything about that ac- 
 count ; that is not mine. 
 
 Q,. Do you keep an account like that now ? J.. I foot my own 
 up ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Take this same account and turn forward to December, 
 1891 ; it IS not totaled up at all, is it ? A. Don't seem to be. 
 
 Q. What becomes of these items, are they not charged to any- 
 body? A. The sales for the year is supposed to appear with 
 that. 
 
 Q. What do you mean by that ? A. The amount of coal and 
 business done for the year. 
 
WILLIAM D ARCY. 187 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Itishardly worth while for ub to attempt 
 to exanoine the books without having both sets of the 
 cash here. I would like to have the witness directed to 
 produce the other cash books and also the receipt book; 
 those that were made and have not been destroyed, this 
 afternoon. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. How large is your office? A. It is a very small one. 
 Q. And there is very little room for storing away your books ? 
 A. Mighty little; there is practically no room, except one closet. 
 Q. Is it in the same condition it was three or four years ago ? 
 A. Tee, sir ; never made any change. 
 
 Q. Then you took these check books and put them in your 
 closet ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And when that got full you wanted to dispose of them, 
 take care of them ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Simply because you didn't have room? A. Didn't have 
 room, no, sir. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Do you say there were no bids for 
 coal on the part of the State ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I know nothing of it, sir. 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Has the State any scales for weigh- 
 ing this coal ? A. No. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — There are public scales in Trenton, 
 are there not? A. There are scales at the hay markets. 
 
 Q. But all the coal dealers weigh their own coal on their own 
 scales? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Are those scales tested very often ? 
 A. Tested once a year by the City Sealer of Weights and Meas- 
 ures. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — May I ask the Senator of Mercer 
 a question ; the coal that is supplied to the public de- 
 partments here in the city of Trenton, is that not 
 weighed on public scales? 
 
 Senator Skirm — No, it isn't ; all dealers weigh their 
 own coal. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I suppose there is a public ordinance on 
 the subject here ; most every city has it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Not here ; the coal trade has grown 
 very largely here ; of course every coal dealer has his 
 own scales ; of course it rests entirely with the honesty 
 of the coal dealer whether the customer gets weight, 
 but in this case, as I understand the witness, with every 
 
188 WILLIAM d'aECY. 
 
 load of coal delivered at the State House there was a 
 stub which you retain. 
 Witness — Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the stub which is left here and the bill of course cor- 
 responded, and that duplicate was left with you and you retained 
 the duplicate and at night you copied out from your books the 
 amounts which the customer that was charged on that book — 
 you charged up on your sales book ? A. Yes, sir ; but every 
 private order was not signed for. 
 
 Q. Only public institutions, where you wanted to keep a record 
 and check, so that the public officers could have a check upon it ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that was done in all cases, and no coal was delivered 
 without taking a receipt, that is to the State House, without tak- 
 ing the receipt of the engineer or some one in his employ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; that was it. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You didn't take receipts from private individuals? A. 
 ~Eo, sir. 
 
 Examined by Senator Ketcham. 
 
 Q. Did you ever deliver from a car or always from the yard ? 
 A. We have an elevated track; we haul from the yard. 
 
 Q. You never delivered any to the State House from a car, did 
 you? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Never sold a car load? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Never compared the weight, either, by the weight of the car ; 
 you never delivered to the State House from a car? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And compared the total of that with the weight of the car ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Same thiag apply with any other customer except they 
 bought by the car load? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you simply charged the gross weight of the car and 
 and simply take the coal out of that car and deliver it? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But where it was by so many tons weight to the State 
 House, you simply took it from any car or from your bins, any- 
 way you could get it? A. Yes, the bins were never empty, so 
 that we could make a test. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Did you not, in fact, haul it right from the train to the State 
 House? A. No, sir. 
 
WILLIAM d'AECY. 189 
 
 Q. Hauled it first into your yard? A. The Pennsylvania 
 Railroad dumped it in our bins, and we haul from the bins. 
 
 Senator Skirm — They have a line of railroad running 
 right into their yard. 
 Q. There is no second handling, is there, then ? 
 
 Senator Skirm — No, sir. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You haven't room enough there to 
 have many cars standing on the side at a time ; you have got to 
 dump the coal to get it. A. Yes, they dump it; we have thir- 
 teen bins. 
 
 Q. Have you your check books here? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Eefer to your stub book for 1893 and 1894. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I ofler in evidence a package of war- 
 rants, with the checks attached, paid by the State, being 
 coal bills of Michael Hurley ; there are quite a number 
 of them; they are all part of the State Treasurer's 
 report, and they all appear to be stamped " For deposit 
 in the Trenton Banking Company," and they cover 
 a period from 1889 to 1894, inclusive. 
 Q. Who draws the checks on your bank account? A. I do 
 since I have been in charge. 
 
 Q. "Who signs them ? A. Mr. Hurley. 
 
 Q. Anybody else have power to sign ? A. 'So, sir ; this one 
 begins in 1893. 
 
 Q. Give me No. 13, these stub books of the Trenton Banking 
 Company ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You deposit your cash as well as your checks in the bank ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Does all the money that comes in come through the bank 
 bef ire you use it? A. No. 
 
 Q. What do you do with it? A. We pay out bills with cash 
 for feed, hay and straw. 
 
 Q. Pay them in cash ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then your payment of bills won't appear here ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. You did pay some with checks, did you not ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 large accounts. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think it would be well to direct the 
 production of the other books, and have them, and give 
 us a little opportunity to examine them. 
 
 Senator Voorheee — The order has been made, and the 
 witness says he will comply with it and produce them 
 this afternoon. 
 Q. Have you the checks here to correspond with these? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
190 FURNISHING STATE HOUSE, 
 
 Mr. CorbiQ — I would like to have these left with the 
 Committee for a short time for examination. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — The order will be made. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think it is hardly worth while to pur- 
 sue the examination at this time, and I desire to call the 
 attention of the Committee to another matter. 
 
 Under the acts passed by the Legislature to which I 
 have already drawn the attention of the Committee, the 
 Superintendent of the State House was paid first the 
 salary of $2,000 and afterwards a salary of |3,000 for 
 superintending the State House. I find by the Treas- 
 urer's report that additional salaries were paid to him. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Under what authority or warrant? 
 
 Mr, Corbin — I don't know ; they seem to have been 
 paid to him as supervisor of the new work going on ; I 
 will offer them in evidence. Unless the acts for adding 
 to the building allowed further salaries to be paid State 
 officers I don't know how it could be done. The first 
 one offered in evidence is voucher 4249 of October Ist, 
 1891: 
 
 " Honorable Leon Abbeit, Governor. 
 
 " I hereby certify that Bernard J. Ford is entitled to 
 receive for services rendered for the construction of the 
 new Assembly building payment on account $500. 
 " Respectfully submitted, 
 
 " James Moylan, Architect. 
 " Leon Abbett, G-overnor." 
 
 That is all there is of that voucher ; there is no re- 
 ceipt, not anything but that certificate, but a warrant 
 was drawn and it was paid. December 22d, 1891, this 
 is voucher No. 557, B. J. Ford, rebuilding Assembly 
 Chamber: 
 
 "Honorable Leon Abbett, Governor. 
 
 "Dear Sir — I hereby certify that B. J. Ford is entitled 
 to receive for services rendered in superintending the 
 construction of the new Assembly building, payment on 
 account, $300. 
 
 James Moylan, Architect." 
 
 Amount of former payment $500, approved, Leon 
 Abbett, Governor. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 191 
 
 The next is 'So. 2917, June 1892, State of New Jersey 
 to B. J. Ford, traveliag, typewriting and other expenses 
 incident to rebuilding of Assembly Chamber to June 
 7th, 1892, $128.80. Approved June 7th, 1892. 
 
 " Leon Abbeit, Governor. 
 
 " Dear Sir — I certify that Bernard J. Ford is entitled 
 to receive for services rendered in superintending the 
 construction of the new Assembly Chamber payment 
 to the. amount of $500. 
 
 Respectfully submitted, 
 
 James Moylan, Architect." 
 
 " Total payments to date, $1,300. Approved, Leon 
 Abbett, Governor." 
 
 " Another one of December, 1892, " State of New 
 Jersey, to B. J. Ford, to superintending, heating and 
 ventilating and repairing in Senate Chamber, $500. 
 Approved, Leon Abbett, Governor." 
 
 Senator Daly — When I was in the Legislature, in 
 1891, they tried to pass a bill increasing his salary, and 
 that bill was vetoed by the Governor, and I opposed 
 the passage of the bill, and I think there was quite 
 some talk around about the State House at that time ; I 
 think there was some arrangement by which he would 
 be superintendent of construction. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If the Committee want me to state tra- 
 ditions, I can state that the Senator is right as far as it 
 has gone; the bill was not passed, but it was said it 
 would be made up to the gentleman in some other way, 
 and here, evidently, is the way. 
 
 Senator Daly — I fought against the bill in the Legis- 
 lature. 
 
 Jambs Moylan, sworn. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I ofier in evidence these five bills to 
 which I have drawn attention, and ask that they be 
 marked "Exhibits 133, 134, 135, 186 and 137." 
 Q. You were the architect of the new Assembly Chamber? 
 A. I was. 
 
 Q. Mr. Ford was paid some money on your certificate for 
 superintending, was he not ? A. Tea, sir. 
 
 Q. Was he an artisan of any sort ? A. Not to my knowledge. 
 
192 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 I never kaew Mr. Ford except as Superintendent — as general 
 Superintendent of the capitol building. 
 
 Q. Was he either a carpenter or mason "i A. 1 don't know. 
 
 Q. Or a plumber? A. I don't know. 
 
 y. Or a plasterer? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. He was a hatter, wasn't he? A. 1 don't know; I never 
 heard ; my impression was that he was an insurance agent pre- 
 viously. 
 
 Q. "Who appointed him to superintend? A. The Governor. 
 
 Q. How do you know that? A. The Governor told me that 
 he had appointed Mr. Ford as Superintendent and Inspector of 
 this work. 
 
 Q. How did you arrive at the rate of compensation which you 
 were to certify for Mr. Ford ? J.. I prepared that slip by direc- 
 tion of the Governor. 
 
 Q. Did the Governor tell you how much to put in ? A. The 
 Governor, Mr. Ford and myself had a consultation as to what 
 would be a proper compensation, and the Governor directed me 
 to make out a certificate at first for, I think, $500 as a payment on 
 account, and subsequently the other amounts which I have certi- 
 fied. I made out those certificates under his direction and sent 
 them to him and he approved them. 
 
 Q. You were not under Mr. Ford's direction, were you ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Nor he under yours? A. Yes, sir ; he was rather under 
 my direction ; I was the architect and he was supposed to look 
 out for the work, to be there and watch, it and in constant super- 
 vision of it. 
 
 Q. He was here at the State House every day ? A. He was 
 here at the State House every day, and my understanding of his 
 position was that of an inspector ; he was always on the work 
 looking out after the conditions and specifications, and all the 
 requirements were carried out, of course subject to my directions. 
 
 Q. Did he do anything, so far as you know ? A. Yes, sir ; he 
 was upon the work ; he was about there all the time, as far as I 
 remember; he was in constant attendance when in the State 
 House and has been much of his time out upon the work, and 
 when he was not there some of the other assistants about the 
 State House were about. 
 
 Q. Mr. Lambert, for instance? A. Mr. Lambert was there, 
 yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And who else? A. I recollect only Mr. Lambert particu- 
 larly. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 193 
 
 Q. Mr. Lambert was really the inspector if there was one, 
 wasn't he on the work? A. He was a carpenter and a clever, 
 able carpenter, and looked out for work of that sort. 
 
 Q. Were there any other inspectors on the work? A. I don't 
 recollect any one besides Mr. Lambert and Mr. Ford, they were 
 there at different times. 
 
 Q. Who prepared the plans and specifications for the new 
 capitol ; for the new Assembly Chamber? A. I did. 
 
 Q. Where are the originals ? A. When the building was 
 completed and I left here I left a complete set at the request of 
 Mr. Ford, in order that they might be referred to in case they 
 were needed again. 
 
 Q. Can't you get at it a little more briefly; where are they? 
 A. They were left in an unoccupied room. 
 
 Q. Do you know where they are ? A. Oh, I don't know 
 where they are to-day. 
 
 Q. What room were they left in? A. They were left in the 
 room formerly occupied by the Attorney-General. 
 
 Q. Adjacent to the Senate Chamber at the rear? A. Of the 
 corridor, yes ; he having had new apartments provided for him. 
 
 Q. Do you know what became of them? A. No; I haven't 
 seen them since. 
 
 Q. Did the contractors sign the plans ? J.. I think the con- 
 tractors signed the plans that were attached to the contract. 
 
 Q. Where are those contracts? Look at these four contracts ; 
 are these the contracts for building the Assembly Chamber ? 
 
 Senator Daly — There is a joint resolntion that was 
 passed after the salary bill was defeated, and I think he 
 exercised power under that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This is the joint resolution, No. 4, March 
 20, 1891, authorizing the Governor to provide a suitable 
 chamber and committee-rooms for the use of the Gen- 
 eral Assembly of this State, by enlarging such, portions 
 of the State Capitol building as he may deem necessary 
 to accomplish the purpose of this resolution, and that 
 the Governor be authorized and empowered to make 
 such additions and alterations as will afford the neces- 
 sary accommodations for the Supreme Court and Court 
 of Errors and Appeals and for other State officers, and 
 sufficient money is hereby appropriated for that pur- 
 pose, to be paid by the Treasurer of this State on the 
 warrant of the Comptroller, after approval by the Gov- 
 ernor. That is what you refer to. 
 
 Senator Daly — Tes, that is all that I can see. 
 
 13 SH 
 
194 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 Q. Those are the contracts ? A. This is the contract for the 
 building of the Assembly Chamber — this one. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence this contract, dated 
 May 12th, 1891, between James Lanning, of Trenton, 
 and the State of New Jersey, with certain specifications 
 attached, and ask that it be marked " Exhibit 138." 
 
 Q. There are no plans attached to that contract, are there ? 
 A. No, there are not. 
 
 Q. Were there ever ? A. Not that I know of. 
 
 Q, Where, then, are the plans which went with that contract, 
 and referred to therein? A. The plans were about the State 
 House, in Mr. Ford's office. 
 
 Q. Did Lanning sign them? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. Did anybody sign them on behalf of the State t A. 1 don't 
 know; I don't think that I was present when the contract was 
 signed. 
 
 Q. Were any filed anywhere? A. Yes, Mr. Ford had a set of 
 plans. 
 
 Q.' Well, did you consider that a filing, to leave them with 
 Ford? A. Well, there were four or five copies; I recollect that 
 Mr. Ford requested to have a copy. 
 
 Q. Can you tell me where any copy is now? A. I left a copy 
 here when I got through. 
 
 Q. What was tb at, a tracing or a blue print? A. That com- 
 prised the preliminary plans. 
 
 Q. No, was it a tracing or a blue print — that copy that you 
 left here ? A. They were both tracing and blue prints. 
 
 Q. Did you leave two copies ? .4. I will explain that there 
 was preliminary plans upon which the builders estimated, and 
 that daring the progress of the work, that a vast number of 
 working drawings were made for the illustrations of the methods 
 of doing work. 
 
 Q. Yes, I understand that there must have been working 
 drawings in work of this magnitude, but were there not a set of 
 plans on which the bidders bid and which are referred to in this 
 contract — a definite set of plans settled upon ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where are those plans? A. I left a set with Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. Have you any set yourself? A. I don't know that I have 
 a complete set left. 
 
 Q. There were some tracings made, weren't there, and from 
 those you took blue prints and copies, as usual? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where are those tracings? A. Daring the time the work 
 was under construction I necessarily had my office — 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 195 
 
 Q. Really that don't answer me ; I don't like to interrupt you, 
 but where are all those tracings, do you know ? A. Wo, I do not. 
 
 Q. Where did you last see them ? ^. I last saw them where 
 I last left them, in the Attorney-General's office. 
 
 Q. Did you leave the tracings in the Attorney-General's office ? 
 A. I left a full set of all the — 
 
 Q. A full set, now, of what, tracings or blue-prints ? A. Both. 
 
 Q. You left a full set of tracings and a full set of blue prints ? 
 
 A. ISo, not comprising a full set of tracings and full set of 
 blue-prints. 
 
 Q. Between the two you think there was a full set there? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were they signed by you ? J.. I think they were all 
 signed by me. 
 
 Q. You simply left them in this unoccupied room ? A. Yee, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Iti anybody's charge, particularly? A. Yes, sir; I left 
 them in Mr. Ford's charge. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to tell us that you built that great building, 
 at a quarter of a million dollars' expense, and never filed a set ot 
 plans with any public officer? A. ISo, I do not. 
 
 Q. Who did you file them with then? A. With Mr. Ford, 
 who was Superintendent of the capitol. 
 
 Q. You filed a set with Mr. Ford ? A. Yes, sir ; I left a set 
 with him. 
 
 Q. Can you kindly state about the date when that was filed ; 
 was it before the work was done or after ? A. Both. 
 
 Q. You filed a set before, did you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was the set which you filed with Mr. Ford before the work 
 was commenced, a set of blue prints or a set of tracings? A. I 
 think they were blue prints. 
 
 Q. Well, when you say you filed them you mean you handed 
 the Superintendent of the State House a copy ? At his request ; 
 yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you file them in the Mercer County Clerk's office ? 
 A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Nor in the Comptroller's office? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Nor in the State Treasurer's office? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Nor in the Secretary of State's office? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q Nor with the Governor? A. I won't say that the Gov- 
 ernor did not have a set ; I think the Governor had a set ; there 
 were four or five ; I recollect particularly, as to Mr. Ford having 
 a set, and I don't recollect whether I did that by direction of the 
 
196 JAMEa MOYLAN. 
 
 Governor or not ; I have an impression that I gave a set to Ford 
 by direction of the Governor. 
 
 Q. The Governor was the officer who had by the joint resolu- 
 tion the charge of this whole thing, wasn't he? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Of course you furnished blue prints ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there any place now where I can find a set of the plans 
 by which this building was erected? A. I can't say. 
 
 Q. Have you a set in your possession ? A. Since I have been 
 subpoenaed by this Committee and requested to bring the plans 
 here I have searched my office and found a large bundle of the 
 plans relating to this work which I have not unrolled and ex- 
 amined. 
 
 Q. Did you bring them with you ? A. 1 brought them with 
 
 me. 
 
 Q. What are they, blue prints ? A. They are blue prints and 
 tracings and all characters of drawings. 
 
 Q. Working drawiugs chiefly, are they not? A. Working 
 drawings chiefly. 
 
 Q. Were the original plans referred to in this contract altered 
 during the progress of the work ? ^4. No. 
 
 Q. Not at all? A. I think not. 
 
 Q. The original plans as drawn hadn't any provision at all for 
 heating the building, had they ? A. The contract for the con- 
 struction of the building. 
 
 Q. If you would answer a little more explicitly, Mr. Moylan, 
 we would get on so much faster. Did the original plans show 
 any provision, whatever, for heating and ventilating the building ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What? A. Well, I will tell you; the question of heating 
 and ventilating was then under consideration by the Governor, 
 and the method to be followed was not decided up to the time 
 the building had been commenced. 
 
 Q. Was it ever decided by you ? A. It was decided by the 
 Governor. 
 
 Q. Did you draw any plans showing the method of heating 
 and ventilating ? A. No, I made the specifications. 
 
 Q. What was done then — without any drafted plan, was it? 
 A. It was made under specifications. 
 
 Q. You see you go right off from my question ; I asked you 
 whether it was made without any drawn plan -^ u specification 
 isn't apian? A. Yes, sir; the only plan that was referred for 
 the purpose of bidding upon the work and referred to in the 
 specifications are the plans already made for the building. 
 
 Q. That is all? A. Yes, sir. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 197 
 
 Q. But this don't show the location, nor the style, nor char- 
 acter of pipes, ventilating apparatus, do they? A. They did not 
 and they do not require it. 
 
 Q. I showed you four contracts, of which you selected one 
 with James Lanning, and said that was the contract for the erec- 
 tion of the Assembly Chamber; 1 show you another dated 
 October 13th, 1891, between the State and Convery & Walker ; 
 does that not also relate to part of the work ? A. ITo, it does not*' 
 
 Q. What does it refer to ? A. It refers to wardrobes for the 
 use of the members in the cloak-room, lockers. 
 
 Q. You don't consider that part of the building? A. 'No, I 
 do not ; I consider that furniture. 
 
 Q. And the other two which I handed you both with the New 
 Jersey School Furniture Company, those also refer to furnishing 
 the same chamber, do they not ? A. This one refers to furnish- 
 ing the desks for the members and chairs for the members of 
 Assembly. 
 
 Q. All that is furniture ? A. That is furniture ; this is simply 
 a memorandum in reference to the same subject. 
 
 Q. Was there no other written contract made for erecting the 
 building or any part of it but this one with Lanning which you 
 have spoken of — "Exhibit 138?" A. No; I will say that there 
 was a contract tor ventilating and such work as that. 
 
 Q. Who actually drew the plans for the new Assembly 
 Chamber ; did you or some one under you ? A. They were drawn 
 partly by me and by a draftsman in my employ. 
 
 Q. Was there not one gentleman in particular who had to do 
 with it under you and who was here upon the work while it was 
 in progress ? A. I will say in explanation of the matter — 
 
 Q. Can you not answer me that ; was there not one gentleman ? 
 A. My partner in business was associated with me. 
 
 Q. Who is that? A. Mr. Lucius. 
 
 Q. And he had charge of it while it was in progress, did he 
 not? A. With myself he was here acting with me. 
 
 Q. How long have you been an architect ? .4. I do not as a 
 rule practice the profession of architecture, for I am a civil 
 engineer, but I have been in the employ — I have been an 
 engineer for some thirty years and the greater portion of that 
 time in the employ of railroads ; my connection with railroad 
 construction and with buildings which form part of them, has 
 given me such knowledge of architecture as I possess. 
 
 Q. Wasn't your principal business previous to building this 
 Chamber, land surveying? A. My principal business was civil 
 engineering. 
 
198 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 Q. And where did you practice that? A. I have an office in 
 Jersey City, which is principally civil engineering. I also have 
 an office in New York, 71 Broadway, and have had for a number 
 of years, where my architecture work and designing of bridges 
 is carried on. 
 
 Q. You were a town surveyor for some of the northern town- 
 ships of Hudson county, were you not, for a period of years? 
 ^A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And wasn't that your principal and chief employment up 
 to the time you took charge of the Assembly Chamber ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. What was your principal employment? A. I was for about 
 seven years in the employ of the New York elevated railroads as 
 assistant chief engineer of the road — I speak of the New York 
 elevated railroads, building the lines upon Third avenue and 
 Ninth avenue. Subsequent to that I was assistant chief engineer 
 of the West Shore Railroad for, I think, about four years. Sub- 
 sequent to that I occupied a similar position on western roads for 
 a few years — upon the Atlantic and Pacific Railroad, a line about 
 815 miles in length, of which I had charge of the maintenance of 
 way and track repairs, bridge building and water ways. 
 
 Q. That was the same line of business, railroad building, con- 
 struction and maintenance? A. And aside from that, municipal 
 improvements and work of that character. 
 
 Q. Building of sewers and paving of streets? A. Yes, sir; 
 and I want to say that it is totally different from land surveying 
 — a wide distinction. 
 
 Q. I wasn't aware of your railroad connections. What build- 
 ings did you design and erect prior to the erection of the Assem- 
 bly Chamber? A. I don't think I designed any in my private 
 practice; I have had general supervision of plans and the prepa- 
 ration of plans for railroads. 
 
 Q. As the engineer to whom they were submitted? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. But the Assembly Chamber was the first building that you 
 ever, as architect, designed and erected, was it not ? A. Yes, 
 sir. I would say that a greater proportion of my engineering 
 experience has been in tee employ of railroads, and it is only a 
 few years back that I took up the private practice — since my 
 return from the West. 
 
 Q. But you were known as an engineer, and not as an architect, 
 prior to that time, is it not so? A. Yes, sir, principally. 
 
 Q. Can you make any suggestion which would htlp us to find 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 199 
 
 a complete set of plans of this building ; I would like to see a 
 set ? A. 1 will aid you all I can. 
 
 Q. Where shall we look for them ? J.. I think you should 
 look first — 
 
 Q. I will state to you that we have found a number of blue 
 prints in the cellar of this building ; that is all we have been able 
 to get at, possibly one tracing; where ought we to find the rest? 
 A. I presume those are a part of what I left. You should fiud a 
 set in the office of the Superintendent of the Capitol, and while 
 I have not looked over the bundle of plans that I found stored 
 away in my office — never expected to use them again — we may 
 find a compl3te set there. Of course this is three or four years 
 ago, and my recollection is not perfect upon the matter. 
 
 Q. But there were none formally filed in any office, were 
 there, that we could get at? A. Other than what I gave to 
 Ford ? I recollect giving them to Ford at his request ; it seems 
 to me that the Governor consented to that, or it was the general 
 understanding that Ford should have a set. 
 
 Q. You have referred to a contract having been made for the 
 heating and ventilating of the Assembly Chamber; who took 
 charge of making that contract on behalf of the State? A. The 
 Governor and myself. 
 
 Q. And with whom was that made ? A. That was made with 
 the Gouge Ventilating and Heating Company, of New York. 
 
 Q. Was it in writing? A. The contract? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There were no plans, I understand you — only written con- 
 tract — except the general plans of the building? A. Except the 
 general plans of the building. 
 
 Q. Afterwards this chamber was ventilated ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the same contractor do that? A. He did. 
 
 Q. Did you have anything to do with that? A. I had nothing 
 whatever to do with it, and I know nothing about it. 
 
 Q. Who had to do with that on behalf of the State 2 A. I 
 don't know. 
 
 Q. You drew no plans for it ? A. 1 drew no plans for it. 
 
 Q. Nor made any specifications ? A. No ; it was done after I 
 ceased to be a member and my connection with the State had 
 ended, until about a year afterwards I understood the thing was 
 
 done. 
 
 Q. Do you happen to know who the Gouge Ventilating and 
 Heating Company are? A. I only know Mr. Gouge, who is at 
 the head of it. 
 
200 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 Q. "Where does he live? A. He lives somewhere up about 
 New York or Eye. 
 
 Q. How long have you known him ? A. 1 have only known 
 Mm since the ventilating of the Assembly Chamber was first dis- 
 cussed. 
 
 Q. Who brought him to your notice ? A. The Governor. 
 
 Q. Did you have any business transactions with him or his 
 company, except in this instance ? A. ISTo. 
 
 Q. Did he come here to make his contract, or did you go to 
 New York to him ? A. He came here. 
 
 Q. Anybody else come on behalf of this company? A. Not 
 that I know of. 
 
 Q. You met him several times, did you? A. Yes, sir; I met 
 him several times, and in New York as well ; I was introduced 
 to him by the Governor. 
 
 Q. Where did you meet him in New York? A. I have met 
 him in New York in his office, and I have met him in the Gov- 
 ernor's office. 
 
 Q. Where was his office? A. His office was in Beekman 
 street. 
 
 Q. How frequently did you meet him here ^ A. 1 can't say ; 
 I had occasion, of course, to meet with him and deal with him 
 during the time he was working here. 
 
 Q. How often did you meet him at the Governor's office ? A. 
 I met him at the Governor's office once or twice, and I met him — 
 
 Q. With the Governor? A. Yes, sir; and I met him herewith 
 the Governor, I should think half a dozen times previous to any 
 contract being made and while the subject of ventilation was 
 under consideration by the Governor. 
 
 Q. The plan of the ventilation was left very much to him, I 
 suppose, you not having made a plan of it, or did the Governor 
 make the plan? A. The Governor conferred with him as a man 
 engaged in the heating and ventilating business. 
 
 Q. Can't you tell me that, who made the plan, that is all ; who 
 made the plan — who determined about the plan for the heating 
 of the Assembly Chamber? A. The Governor principally; I 
 will say that the specifications did not limit us to a particular 
 plan, and the adoption of the plan was a matter for the Governor. 
 
 Q. Who drew the specifications? A. I drew the specifications. 
 
 Q. Did you consult with Mr. Gouge with reference to that. 
 A. I did. 
 
 Q. And it was after receiving his suggestions that you pre- 
 pared them? A. Yes, sir ; after suggestions with him and con- 
 ferences upon the whole subject with myself and the Governor. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 201 
 
 Q. The specificatioDS looked to obtain certain results, and left 
 the details very much to the contractor, did they not ? A. Yes, 
 sir; and I understand for its success as well. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Did Mr. Gouge bid upon the work? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Did any others bid ' A. Not that 
 I know of. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Did any others try to bid, as far as 
 you know? A. I don't know. During the time that bids were 
 being received and under consideration I saw some other parties 
 in New York and asked them to look into the matter and to bid 
 upon it; I don't know that they bid; it was advertised for bids 
 and my impression is that Mr. Gouge was the only bidder. 
 
 Q. Who were the others whom you saw and invited to bid ? 
 A. I don't recollect their names at the present time. While the 
 subject was under consultation I had a conversation with Mr. 
 Sterling, the president of the National Storage Company in New 
 York, with whom I am very well acquainted, and we had con- 
 siderable — 
 
 Q. He is not a ventilating man 1 A. 1 was about to say — 
 considerable discussion on the subject of ventilation, and he re- 
 ferred me to some parties in upper Broadway, I think in the 
 neighborhood of Worth street or Thomas street. 
 
 Q. Do you recall their names? A. I can't recall their names 
 now; I saw them and requested them to bid upon this work; I 
 told them it was open to any plan of ventilation that would be 
 satisfactory to the Governor and would accomplish the results. 
 
 Q. Who received the bids ? A. The Governor. 
 
 Q. And your impression is that but one was received, and that 
 is the Gouge ' A. That is my impression ; I wouldn't say that 
 it was any more than an impression. 
 
 Q. You had nothing to do, then, with the opening of those 
 bids and awarding the contract ? A. No, the custom was — 
 
 Q. That is sufficient, I don't care for the custom. That work, 
 then, was not under your supervision ? A. Yes, sir, it was. 
 
 Q. The work of ventilating as well ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you make any suggestions during its progress ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were some changes made in it during its progress? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What ? A. There were no changes I think that conflicted 
 with anything in the specifications, because the specifications did 
 not prescribe everything particularly, but rather prescribed the 
 general requirements of ventilation and the general method that 
 
202 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 was to be followed, and in that there were certain distribution of 
 radiators throughout the building, which I considered during the 
 progress of the work could be improved. 
 
 Q. I show you contract, dated June 23, 1891, between the 
 Gouge Heating & Ventilating Company and the State of Ifew 
 Jersey ; is that the contract and specifications to which you have 
 referred? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you drew those specifications? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q,. They are all in the nature of general statements, are they 
 not, without anything specific ? A. ISTo, that is not a fair state- 
 ment of those specifications, 
 
 Q. With the exception of the statement of about the number 
 of radiators desired and the number of feet desired to exhaust, 
 aren't the entire specifications mere general remarks on the sub- 
 ject? A. No, I don't think that is a proper definition of the 
 term applied to specifications. 
 
 Q. You think there are other things here that are specific, do 
 you? A. Than those, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But they left the matter really to the contractor to put in 
 anything that he thought would heat and ventilate the building, 
 didn't they; look at them? 
 
 Senator Ketchara — Is the price stipulated in those 
 pepers? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The contract gives the price, yes, sir. 
 Senator Skirm — I didn't hear any remarks or any 
 reply to the question as to how long this gentleman 
 had been an architect; did he make any ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir ; except to say that was his pro- 
 fession, but this building was the first building which 
 he ever designed and erected ; his business was rather 
 in the nature ot railroad engineering and in that 
 capacity plans for railroad building have been submitted 
 to him to consider. 
 
 Witness — That is so, in the nature of my position. 
 Q,. Are they not all, with the two exceptions I have mentioned, 
 of the most general character? A. No, it isn't right to say that 
 they are of the most general character. 
 
 Q. What is there that is specific other than what I have men- 
 tioned ? A. What did you mention ? 
 
 <}. I mentioned about the number of radiators desired and the 
 quantities of air to be exhausted; I think there is an estimate of 
 those there; isn't substantially everything else left to the con- 
 tractor ? A. The requirements in each particular room of the 
 building are specified — the requirements of ventilation. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 203 
 
 Q. That is the number ot feet to be exhausted? A. The 
 uumber of feet to be exhausted and the number of openings tor 
 the purpose. 
 
 Q. Right on that point while you are there — the openings from 
 the outside in this system were left by the mason, were they not, 
 in the construction of the building under your directions? A. 
 Partially so ; the building had progressed to that degree before 
 the ventilating work was commenced. 
 
 Q. But there is practically an opening under every outside 
 window left there by the masons? A. Yes, but it became neces- 
 sary to make more openings afterwards, and the ventilating con- 
 tractor made those, and in other cases they were made by the 
 contractor; that is, a space left in the brick work, but that was 
 not supposed to include all the work that was done in making 
 that inlet. The specifications prescribed that the reflector plans, 
 or the adjustment of inflow and outflow, are to be provided ; the 
 branches and leaders to be connected with the main shaft, 
 describing the material of which they are made, and carrying to 
 the roof ventilating exhaust cap — a particular description of what 
 is to be done. 
 
 Q. What do you refer to when you say that ? A. To that 
 (indicating). 
 
 Q. What clause do you refer to when you say " particular de- 
 scription of what is to be done ? " A. I refer to a clause on page 
 1, where it says, central main shaft shall start from the glass ceil- 
 ing in the Assembly Chamber. 
 
 Q. That scheme was one devised by Mr. Gouge? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You put that in as he gave it to you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Were these drawn for the Gouge 
 plans specially? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — I understand that these plans, or 
 this contract rather — I don't know what to call it — these speci- 
 fications were drawn at the suggestion of the man to whom after- 
 wards the contract was awarded, is that so? A. I will read — 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Why don't you answer that question ? 
 A. What is that, sir? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — These plans, so called, were drawn 
 at the suggestion or upon the suggestion of the man to whom 
 the contract was afterwards awarded? A. Yes, sir; and it is 
 right to say in connection with that, in order to avoid misunder- 
 standing, it don't appear from the specifications, but the bidder 
 may submit his bid for any plan varying in its details from those 
 herein referred to that will accomplish complete ventilation and 
 create a vacuum, which plans may be approved by the Governor, 
 
204 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 and of the fulfillment of which he shall be the sole judge, and 
 under those circumstances it was impossible to make particular 
 drawings of any particular plans, and so this specification aimed 
 at the general requirement under which the contractors were 
 allowed to submit. 
 
 Q. Wasn't this specification drawn after that c >ntract had 
 been awarded to Mr, Gouge and not before ? A. 'So. 
 
 Q. And yet you had Mr. Gouge's suggestions as to how it 
 should be drawn? A. Yes, sir, for he was in it a long time in 
 conference with the Governor. 
 
 Q. Mr. Gouge then practically dictated a specification upon 
 which the contract was made, did he not ? A. No, he did not. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do I understand that you drew those 
 plans, or did somebody else draw them for you ? A. The speci- 
 fications ? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — The specifications, yes ; did you draw 
 them, or did somebody else draw them? A. They were drawn 
 by myself and by ray associate in business. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Did you ever draw any others for 
 heating and ventilation? A. JSTo. sir; I think not. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Have you ever seen others drawn ? 
 A. IsTot for a system of this character. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Any kind of ventilation? A. 
 General ventilation ; only such ventilation as ordinary workshops 
 and buildings of railroads have. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Did you ever draw a plan that was 
 as general as that before, or did you ever see a plan that was 
 drawn so general as that — I mean specifications? Did you ever 
 see another one drawn in that way — in that loose sort of a way ? 
 A. No; I don't think it is right to call this loose specifications. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Call it what you please; did you 
 ever see another set of specifications drawn in that way relating 
 to heating and ventilation for a job that involved an outlav of 
 147,000? ^. $21,000, I think. 
 
 Q. Did you ever see a contract, involving a contract of .^41 ,- 
 000, entered into in any such loose specifications as this ? I 
 don't like to characterize your specifications, but I think they 
 are kind of loose. A. I don't agree with you as to their being 
 loose. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — You can say " yes " or " no " in 
 answer to my question "i A. 1 won't answer your question fairly. 
 Senator ; I have no recollection, particularly, of other specifica- 
 tions for ventilation other than what I speak of in my experience 
 in connection with railroad building ; I do not agree with you 
 
JAAIES MOYLAN. 205 
 
 at all, that they are at all loose specificatione, or a loose method 
 of doing it; I want to say that, to my mind, it is an entirely 
 business-like and commendable way of dealing with that ques- 
 tion, and I thought so during the time that the Governor took 
 hold of it in that manner, and I think so still. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — As an architect, you give that as 
 your opinion ? ^. I do ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I will ask you a question or two. You said this was done 
 after considerable consultation and advisement with Mr. Gouge; 
 he was called in by the Governor, was he not, as an adviser in 
 this matter ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He was a former acquaintance and friend of the Governor, 
 did you happen to know? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. But at all events the Governor brought him in on this 
 subject ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the specifications which you finally drew grew largely 
 out of suggestions of Mr. Gouge, jotted down, isn't that so? A. 
 Yes, sir, that is a tact; I will say yes to that. 
 
 Q. So that wherein these are specific they were indicated by 
 Mr. Gouge ; the general observations here are yours; is that it? 
 A. I wouldn't say that there is, but they were the product of 
 contoreuce with him upon the subject, and all the consultations 
 that were had upon the subject of ventilation with him and the 
 Governor which lasted several months. 
 
 Q. Did you happen to know who made the work tor the 
 Gouge Company, for example these shields that we see over the 
 radiators, who made those? A. I don't know. I understood 
 they were made by some foundry, I think, in Freehold, IST. J. 
 
 Q. What is the name ? J.. I don't know ; I simply heard of 
 that incidentally and recollect that circumstance. 
 
 Q. And who made the radiators? A. The radiators were not 
 part of this contract of Gouge's. 
 Q. Oh, not ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Then I have misread the specifications. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — So have I ; they were to furnish 
 these surely ; no doubt you have misread those, but I 
 think you have misread those if you think the radiators 
 are not in them. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The specifications are for materials and 
 work required to furnish and erect a system of venti- 
 lating and steam-heating for the Assembly Chamber ; 
 then follow certain observations with respect to that 
 subject and there is a page on cold air. The specifica- 
 tions for steam-heating require that there shall be about 
 
206 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 seventy radiators averaging eighty square feet nf heat- 
 ing surface, &c. Now the contract says that the party 
 of the first part, which is the Gouge Company, will fur- 
 nish all materials and perform all the labor necessary 
 for the ventilation and steam-heating of the Assembly 
 Chamber of the Capitol building in the City of Tren- 
 ton, agreeably to the plans and specification thereof 
 made by James Moylan, architect, which said plans and 
 specifications are signed by the parties hereto, and a 
 copy of which are hereto annexed. Now that contract 
 does seem to include the radiators, doesn't it? A. Let 
 me see it. 
 Q. Well, I will refresh your memory; I will read you the 
 specification and the contract on the subject. They do beyond 
 any possible doubt, as far as the significance of words is con- 
 cerned, cover the radiators. Is it not the fact, although they did 
 cover the radiators and the contract was awarded at twenty-one 
 thousand six hundred and eighty odd dollars, that after the work 
 was commenced the radiators were bought from another con- 
 tractor, to wit, the Victor Radiator Company, and paid for to 
 the tune of |1,506, and that, notwithstanding that this company 
 was paid its full contract price and was paid in addition $2,700 
 for fitting up for the Victor. Isn't that the truth about it and 
 didn't you certify all the bills? A. No, sir; that is not so. 
 
 Q. Just explain wherein that is inaccurate ? A. In the first 
 place this specification which is the specification upon which 
 bidders bid, states that the bids for radiators must be separate 
 from the rest of the work, and the bid therefor may be separately 
 accepted for radiators. 
 
 Q. May be separately accepted? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Well, now as a matter of fact that contract covers every- 
 thing in the specification ? A. No, sir; it does not cover the 
 radiators. 
 
 Q. Where were these typewritten specifications made, in your 
 office? A. I made the first copy of the specifications and addi- 
 tional copies were made here in the Capitol building by type- 
 writers here. 
 
 Q. You made the original? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. What you have just read is interlined in that, isn't it — in 
 the handwriting of the Governor? A. Yes, sir, that is inter- 
 lined. 
 
 Q. That has been put into this copy, then, since this typewrit- 
 ing was done, hasn't it? A. No, it has not. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 207 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say that that was interlined in all the 
 specifications sent around for the people to bid on? A. Now, I 
 want to make that question clear; the condition was in the 
 specifications before the work was advertised and bid upon, that 
 the radiators should be bid upon separately. 
 
 Q. That interlineation was in there before ? A. Now, I think 
 that that suggestion making the bids separate may have been 
 made after some of those specifications were printed, and there- 
 fore I can only account for the fact of their being interlined in 
 there now by the circumstance of using an old specification and 
 inserting in it — 
 
 Q. Were you present when that interlineation was made? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Assume that all you say is so — A. I have a copy of the 
 specifications and I recollect — 
 
 Q. Have you got it here with you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Let us see it? A. (Witness produces the same). 
 
 Q. Assume that that is so, and that that interlineation was 
 made — that has an interlineation here in the same way (referring 
 to the paper produced by witness); whose handwriting is that 
 interlineation? A. That interlineation is in the handwriting of 
 my associate. 
 
 Q. And the one in this is in the handwriting of the Governor, 
 is it not ? A. Yes ; I think this refers to this thing two or three 
 times ; I want to see if that is so. 
 
 Q. I think you will find it is a carbon copy of this ; look at the 
 bottom of page 12? A. That is copied on the same typewriter. 
 
 Q. I think you will find it is a carbon copy of the same thing ; 
 what is the last word on the page, " respective " ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Now, I have a distinct recollection that the question was referred 
 to twice in the specifications. 
 
 Q. Let us not comment on it, but let us get on with our ques- 
 tions and answers ? A. My recollection of that matter was very 
 definite, and I think the specifications would show it. 
 
 Q. Assume that what you say is so, that this interlineation was 
 made before you sent out these specifications for people to bid, 
 nevertheless this contract which was actually made with the 
 Gouge Ventilating Company calls for the furnishing of all the 
 materials in those specifications, that includes the radiators ; how 
 does it come that that contract was afterwards awarded to the 
 Victor Radiator Company, of Elizabeth, for radiators, and that 
 paid in addition to this contract price ? A . The date — 
 
 Q. Now can't you answer that; do you know how it came 
 
208 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 about? A. I will answer that question; I will answer it fairly 
 and if ray answer isn't proper you may exclude it. 
 
 Q. Do you know how it came about? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How '? A. 1 will say to you that the date of this contract 
 with the Victor Radiator Company may be later, and I say to you 
 positively — and I recollect it — that the bids for the furnishing and 
 delivery of radiators for that building, and the bid tor the ventila- 
 tion of the building were received upon the same day and they 
 were separate. 
 
 Q. Can you tell me why this Gouge Company contracted for 
 the whole and did not do it all, and yet were paid the price for it 
 all ? A. Tiiat is the first time I have ever heard that suggestion 
 in relation to it. 
 
 Q. Let me refresh your memory ; isn't this the truth about it. 
 That while this work was in progress by the Gouge Ventilating 
 and Heating Company, Mr. John T. Dunn, of the Victor Com- 
 pany, came to Trenton and demanded a part of this work, and 
 was it not then given to him to the extent of §1,505, radiators, 
 and he did that, and this company fitted up the pipes for him, 
 isn't that the truth about it ? A. 'So, sir, that is not the truth. 
 
 Q. How is that — they were paid for twice, then, and these 
 papers show it on their face? A. I don't know that they are 
 paid for twice; I don't believe they are paid for twice. 
 
 Q. Did you see the Governor make that interlineation ? -4. I 
 can't say now that I did. 
 
 (J. Do you remember when it was made ? A. No ; I simply 
 recognized the Governor's handwriting in that contract; I 
 wouldn't say that I ever saw that contract before. 
 
 Q. When was yours interlined to correspond with it ? A. It 
 was interlined before the bids were received, and it was a matter 
 of perfect understanding. 
 
 Q. You remember, do you not, that the Victor Radiator Com- 
 pany's contract for the radiators was a matter of $1,500 ; you re- 
 call that, do you not ? J.. I recollect this. 
 
 Q. Do you or don't yon recall that? A. Well, that is not the 
 fact. 
 
 Q. You don't recall that? A. Yes, I do recall all about it. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say that they didn't get their pay as the 
 vouchers show here ? A. But you want the answers ; I say that 
 the bids for the radiators were received and that Mr. Gouge sub- 
 mitted a bid for delivering radiators and so did Mr. Dunn upon 
 the same day, and they were opened and publicly read in the 
 Governor's room by the Governor, and that Mr. Dunn, who rep- 
 resented the Victor Radiator Company, bid a price of about 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 209 
 
 twenty-six cents a square foot of radiating surface, and that Mr. 
 Gouge offered a bid of about thirty cents a square foot of radi- 
 ating surface. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Both of them worth about eleven 
 cents a foot, I believe. A. They are worth more than that. 
 
 Q. You are right as to the Victor Company being twenty-six 
 cents? A. You asked me if it was $1,500; that wouldn't 
 amount to that at twenty-six cents a foot. 
 
 Q. How does it happen, then, that the Gouge Company did 
 sign a contract to put in the radiators ? A. That was not the 
 intention. 
 
 Q. It was not the intention? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You mean to say there is a blunder in the paper? A. Well, 
 I don't assume to know anything about that contract; I don't 
 admit that that is so, because I don't know anything about it, 
 and I have had nothing to do about it. 
 
 Q. You had nothing to do about it? A. 1 had nothing to do 
 with the drawing of that contract. 
 
 Q. Do you happen to remember that the Gouge Company was 
 paid about $2,700 for puttihg in fittings for the Victor Company 
 for its $1,500 worth of radiators 1 A. I recollect that the Gouge 
 Company had an extra bill. 
 
 Q. $2,700? A. Yes; and I know all about that. 
 
 Q. That they were paid for the ventilating apparatus $23,680, 
 and paid $2,700 in addition, and the Victor Company was paid 
 $1,600 for radiators besides; is that it? A. Yes, sir; but it 
 did'nt cover the same work. 
 
 Q. Did the Gouge people furnish any radiators for the Assem- 
 bly Chamber? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the Victor, also ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What proportion did the Gouge people furnish? A. 1 
 wouldn't say, positively, now, but I think they furnished about 
 one-third. 
 
 Q. About one-third of them? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How does it happen they didn't send in a bill for those, if 
 they were not in their contract? A. I will tell you, because I 
 want to tell you all — 
 
 Q. We want to know? A. I want you to understand their 
 bill, and this I assure you — now, Mr. Dunn came here during the 
 time the subject of ventilation was under consideration by the 
 Governor ; he represented the Victor Radiator Company, and he 
 had a radiator to sell, and told us about the merits of it, and he 
 bored the Governor about it, and the Governcr wrote me about 
 it and asked me to go down to Elizabeth, where this radiator 
 
 14 SH 
 
210 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 was made, and look at it, and see what I thought about it, and 
 see whether it was adapted to the use for this purpose. Inci- 
 dentally, I will say, that he asked Mr. Gouge, with whom he was 
 in consultation upon the subject of ventilation, to go down and 
 look at that radiator, and see whether it was adapted to hia 
 method of ventilation, and whether it was a good radiator. Mr. 
 Dunn saw me here, in the State House, and in other places. He 
 is a pretty persistent gentleman. 
 
 Q. He was particularly persistent in that matter, wasn't he ? 
 A. He wanted to introduce the radiator in the State House and 
 advertise it in that way ; he wanted to sell some radiators ; he 
 wanted to advertise it. I looked at the raditor and looked at the 
 work of it, and I thought it a good radiator, and told the Gov- 
 ernor so; and Mr. Gouge reported to the Governor that he 
 thought it was a good radiator, and that he could adapt it to his 
 method of ventilation ; and as I say, Mr. Dunn wanted to fur- 
 nish radiators in this building. 
 
 Q. He rather insisted upon it, didn't he? A. Well, he isn't a 
 very modest man ; I don't know but what anything that Mr. 
 Dunn would do would be rather in the nature of insistment. 
 
 Q. The Governor finally yielded ? A. The Governor finally 
 told him if he wanted to introduce the radiators in the Capitol 
 that he would have to submit a bid, and if he was the lowest 
 bidder he would get the job. Pursuant to that direction and 
 understanding, the specifications for the heating and ventilating 
 the building, which may have been in the form in which they 
 are printed, were modified previous to the respective bids for 
 heating and ventilation so as to give Mr. Dunn a chance to bid 
 upon this work. 
 
 Q. Where is Mr. Dunn's bid now ? ^1. I don't know. 
 
 Q. What is Mr. Gouge's bill? Q. I don't know. 
 
 Q. Don't you think you could look them up for us and let us 
 see them ; you see we can't find any bids in this State House at 
 all for anything? A. They were never in my possession; they 
 were read by the Governor in his room and I was present, and I 
 don't know anything more than that about them. I presume 
 that they passed into the hands of his private secretary, and I 
 understand that his private secretary drew up those contracts. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Now, then, what we are after and 
 what you were going to explain when you started out, and what 
 we want to get at, is this one-third of the total number of radia- 
 tors furnished here and then charged lor — . A. Yes, I will tell 
 you about that; I think you ought to ventilate this subject as 
 much as possible ; I hadn't anything whatever to do with thia 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 211 
 
 building. Now, the radiator that Mr. Dunn had was a simple 
 form of radiator with the circulation running entirely continuous 
 in it. • 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Let me say this, that the Chairman 
 knows all about that raidator and I don't want any more of John 
 Dunn's radiators; what I want to get at is this. One-third of 
 the radiators were Dunn's and he put in a bill for — A. In the 
 usual form in which those radiators were made, with a single 
 coil — 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Why don't you give a direct answer 
 to the question, instead of going away around the Senate Cham- 
 ber two or three times. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Get out of those coils and just say 
 why it was that Mr. Gouge did neither put in a bill and was not 
 paid for the one-third of the radiators that he furnished under 
 the contract — that is what we are after and not about the coils. 
 A. It is for this reason that the radiators were required to be 
 of different pattern. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — We know that one isn't worth a 
 snap and the other is a good one ; we will take that for granted. 
 A. In order to do that it was necessary to make the Victor radiators 
 in a different pattern from what they had been usually made, and 
 when they came to do that for the first time it was found they 
 did not work satisfactorily, that the admission of the steam — . 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — I know this that you have to use 
 a tin drip pan underneath to catch the water where they leak ; 
 but to come back to the question. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Why don't you answer the question 
 instead of stating facts that we know, and that you know that 
 we know ? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Why were not these one-third of 
 the radiators paid for by the State outside of the contract? A. 
 Because the Dunn radiators in their modified form were found 
 to be unsatisfactory and I concluded that they wouldn't answer. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Now let me ask you there ; did 
 the Dunn Company — did they replace them with these other 
 radiators ? A. No, they did not. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Who paid for the radiators which 
 replaced them — the one-third, who paid for those, did the State ? 
 A. That don't entirely cover the same radiators. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Allow me. Why don't you get a 
 direct answer, yes or no; if you do know you certainly ought to 
 be able to answer the question, but you simply evade every ques- 
 tion that is asked you ? A. No, sir, I will not allow you to say 
 
212 EDWAUD D. FOX. 
 
 that ; it isn't fair ; I dou't evade an^'thing and I don't think any- 
 body besides yourself thinks eo. 
 
 Q. The Victor Radiator Company had a contract to furnish 
 radiators for the Assembly Chamber, did it not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it paid for, then? A. Paid for what they furnished. 
 
 Q. Paid according to the contract price? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Now, you said a few moments ago, that about one-third of 
 all the radiators furnished to the Assembly Chamber were fur- 
 nished by the Gouge Company ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why weren't they paid for, then ? A. Some of them were 
 not furnished, and some of those that were furnished — 
 
 Q. Why weren't they paid for what they did furnish ? A. 
 Who? 
 
 Q. The Grouge Company? A. They were paid for what they 
 furnished. 
 
 Q. For the Assembly Chamber — they didn't put in any extra 
 bill for that, did they ? A. Who ? 
 
 Q. The Grouge Company? A. Yes, they did. 
 
 Q. For extra radiators? A. For radiators they furnished. 
 
 q. In addition to their $23,680 ? A. Yes, sir ; the $23,680 
 didn't cover the radiators ; I say that the Gouge contract did not 
 include the radiators, and I always so understood it. 
 
 q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Think this over and try and help 
 us out? A. ISTo, I don't need to think it over ; I recollect it very 
 well. 
 
 Recess. 
 
 Edward D. Fox, sworn. 
 
 Direct examination by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Trenton, N. J. 
 
 Q. And what is your employment? A. Executive Clerk to 
 to the Governor. 
 
 Q. How long have you been Executive Clerk to the Governor? 
 A. I am now on my 30th year. 
 
 (2. Have you been continuously at the State House during 
 that time? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And have you charge of the files of the Governor's office ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you the bids that were given in to the Governor for 
 the building of the new Assembly Chamber? A. I have not, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you any of the contracts relative to that work? A. 
 Not one of them. 
 
 Q. Have you any plans or specifications ? A. No, sir ; I have 
 not. 
 
JOHN BOX NELL. 213 
 
 Q. What became of these papers relative to that work that 
 were in the custody of the Goveruor's office ? A. The contracts, 
 I have always understood, were on file with the Comptroller — the 
 place where they should have been, at least. 
 
 Q. Well, as to the files which you had in your office, what 
 became of them? A. At the end of Governor Abbett's term I 
 asked him about what papers he wanted to take home, and he 
 said he wanted everything ; I packed up everything there was in 
 the office. 
 
 Q. When you say everything that was in the office, you mean 
 everything that related to his three years' term ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And what did you do with them? A. They were sent by 
 express to Jersey City, to his house. 
 
 Q. Have you anything left in your office at all of the Gover- 
 nor's files relating to that period ? A. JSTo, sir ; I have not. 
 
 Q. Do you know where I could find these bids? A. No, sir; 
 I wouldn't know ; they may be among these papers. 
 
 Q. That is, that you sent away ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But you are quite sure you have nothing in your office ? 
 A. I am quite sure ; when our vault was refitted up, everything 
 that pertained to anything that belonged to Governor Abbett 
 was sent away. 
 
 Q. ISTot only with reference to this matter, but everything else 
 pertaining to his term ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that the usual course ? A. Well, yes ; the usual course 
 is for the Governor to take all his personal papers, or matters of 
 that kind. 
 
 Q. That is, which relate to his office ? A. Yes, sir, but I have 
 never known everything to be taken before. 
 
 Q. Except on this occasion ? A. Except on this occasion. 
 
 John Bonnbll, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Cokbin. 
 
 Q. You are the Custodian of the State House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And when did you assume that office? A. May 28th, 
 1894. 
 
 Q. You immediately succeeded Mr. Ford, the Superintendent, 
 did you not? A. About ten days after Mr. Ford went out of 
 office. 
 
 Q. Do you occupy the same rooms which he occupied ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you find in the way of files and papers there ? 
 A. I didn't find any papers except some stationery belonging to 
 the office, with the Superintendent's name on. 
 
214 JOHN BOKNELL. 
 
 Q. Blank stationery ? A. Blank stationery and envelopee. 
 Q. Any bids? A. No bids. 
 
 Q. Or plans? A. Well, in the vault under my office there 
 was some blue prints or drawings. 
 
 Q. That is down cellar ? A. That was down cellar. 
 Q. But in the office you found nothing t A. 1 didn't find 
 anything; there wasn't anything in the desk. 
 
 Q. Can you tell us where we can find, other than blue prints, 
 any plans or bids or specifications relating to this work? A. ISo, 
 sir; I don't think there is any in the building; that is, in my 
 department. 
 
 Q. Then the files of that office were all gone, were they ? A. 
 All gone except this stationery. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — What was the amount involved 
 in these various improvements? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I never totaled it up, but it i? a very 
 large sum of money — the new Assembly Chamber — 
 something like a quarter of a million of dollars. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — And there are no plans and spec- 
 ifications for that? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Except certain blue prints we find in 
 the cellar which are principally detail drawings. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Da you think any private individ- 
 ual would conduct his business in that way? 
 Mr. Corbin — Counsel is not able to answer. 
 Senator Voorhees — Wouldn't he be able to answer no? 
 Mr. Corbin — I have kept the plans of my house, I'll 
 say that much. 
 Q. Did you find any records there that shows the State House 
 supplies for the past, or anything of that kind ? A. No, sir. 
 
 (J. Do you mean to say there was no record left in that office 
 of any sort? A. No, sir; there wasn't any record of any kind 
 left there. 
 
 Q. Nor any files? A. Nor any files. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Again I would like to ask what is 
 the duty of the Custodian ? .4.. To look after the building, keep 
 it heated ; keep it clean ; buy the supplies under the direction of 
 the State liouse Commission. All bills are submitted to the 
 State House Commission after they are contracted by the Cus- 
 todian after approval, and then ordered paid by the Commission, 
 with my approval. I was going to say that all orders for large 
 amounts of goods I make application for what I want, exceeding 
 $100. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 215 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Is there a record kept of those ? 
 A. Record kept of those. 
 
 Q. That is under the act of 1894 ? A. That is done through 
 the order book in the Treasurer's office and the bills are checked 
 up by the stub after the goods come in. 
 
 Q. That is your present practice ? A. Yes, sir; present prac- 
 tice and under the act of 1894 says all supplies must be ordered 
 by the State House ComnQission. 
 
 Q. I understand you — anything that you order in excesis of 
 $100 you subnnit to the board? A. To the Commission. 
 
 Q. Consisting of whom? A. Governor, Comptroller and State 
 Treasurer. 
 
 Q. Do you now keep a record of what you buy? A, On the 
 order book ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And when the bills are rendered and approved by the 
 Commission, then you take and check up the bill with the stub 
 of the order book ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you the record which shows everything you have pur- 
 chased in the past? A. About everything; there may be a few 
 small orders I have never placed — that we don't send an order 
 for if in a hurry for — not exceeding $2. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Let me ask you one question. You 
 succeeded Mr. Ford, you say ; did he turn over his office to you ? , 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You had no intercourse with him? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — So that you simply found an empty 
 office when you came ? A. An empty desk ; in the closet was 
 stationery, but there were no maps ; I looked for those ; no 
 specifications or plane. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But no books or papers that per- 
 tained to the business of the office? A. I haven't any; there 
 wasn't any left there. 
 
 James Moylan, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I show you a tracing which we have found in the cellar of 
 the State House with " James Moylan, Architect," in the corner. 
 Is thar the ground plan of the new Assembly Chamber as de- 
 signed by you ? A. That is the location plan of the foundation. 
 
 Q. Well, is that one of the plans referred to this morning ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the work proceed according to that plan ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And it is one of those mentioned in Mr. Lanning's con- 
 
216 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 tract, ia it? A. Yes, sir; it is one of the plans that was 
 executed for the bidders to bid upon — one of those referred to. 
 
 Q. This is the original, is it not? A. I think so. 
 
 Q. Did the contractors sign any plans ? A. 1 don't know. 
 
 Q. The contract says, " which plans and specifications are 
 signed by the parties hereto, and a copy of said specifications is 
 hereto annexed." You think the actual signing was perhaps 
 omitted? A. I don't know anything about that. 
 
 Q. This plan does not appear to be signed, does it? A. 'Ho. 
 
 Q. This contract calls for the furnishing of all materials and 
 the performance of all labor necessary for the masonwork and 
 carpenter work, plumbing, gas fitting and all other necessary 
 work to be done, and materials to be furnished in and for the 
 erection and completion of a new assembly chamber. Then all 
 the work done on this plan should be done by the contractor, 
 Lanning, should it not? A. Yes, sir; I will state that this plan 
 shows the location of the old engine house and coal house ; that 
 was no part of it. 
 
 Q. That shows work that was done before this plan was made, 
 does it not, buildings already standing? ^4. Shows the old 
 building ; that building was afterwards altered. 
 
 Q. Let 's be clear about that ; the building marked here " old 
 engine house " is not included, you say, in the work that was 
 done? A. No; that was the plan to illustrate the location. 
 
 Q. And the building marked " coal-house " ; how as to that? 
 A. That is not included ; that was there ; that was afterwards 
 altered. 
 
 Q. Altered under the contract, or outside of the contract ? A. 
 It was altered to make more room for an electric plant, which 
 was put in. 
 
 Q. Was that alteration provided for in this contract and speci- 
 fication ? A. Oh, no. 
 
 Q. This contract, then, was to furnish all the necessary mate- 
 rials, to do all necessary work to erect this building, was it not? 
 A. Yes, sir ; whatever was covered by his contract. 
 
 Q. Well, his contract covered everything but the ventilation 
 and heating, didn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that the one from which you took your blue prints? A. 
 I don't know that I made any blue prints of this ; I can't say; 
 this is simply the foundation; the lowest level; there were others 
 of the first floor, second floor and elevations, showing the interior 
 of the building. 
 
 Q. " The contractor will take the building site as he finds it 
 and make all excavations and trenches for piers, walls, cellar 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 217 
 
 drains, basements, &c., the required depth and do all necessary 
 levelling." The contractor then undertook the excavation, did 
 he not, and leveling? A. No, sir. 
 Q. He didn't? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What did that specification mean, then? A. It meant 
 this, that the foundation — the cellar was dug before. 
 
 Q. You mean the cellar of the old Chamber? A. No, sir ; 
 the new one. The foundation was dug in the earth level, to 
 about the level of the new basement floor or cellar floor, and he 
 was to take it in that condition ; take it as he found it ; at the 
 time that that contract was drawn and bidders were bidding, the 
 work of excavating this cellar was going on. ,; 
 
 Q. The old building was being removed, wasn't it. May 12th, 
 1891? A. The old building had been removed, and in addition 
 to that the cellar bad been dug. 
 
 Q. What is that excavation for walls and piers and so on then 
 meant for, if it doesn't mean that he was to excavate ? A. It 
 means excavation for the sub-foundation of the walls below what- 
 ever level it was found to be at the time he took possession of 
 the work to commence work. It was excavated roughly to about 
 the required level for the cellar, and below that the walls would 
 extend to the foundation. 
 
 Q. When you speak of the excavation already done you refer, 
 I suppose, to the excavation done by Michael Hurley, do you 
 not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was a contract made with him for that 1 A. 1 don't know 
 that any written contract was made ; there was a verbal agree- 
 ment of it between himself and the Grovernor. 
 
 Q. A verbal agreement? A. At least, yes, sir; that I know 
 of. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence voucher No. 2,425, 
 Michael Hurley, May 5, 1891, $1,000 on account of re- 
 moving old Assembly Chamber — " Exhibit 139." Also 
 voucher dated May 19, 1891, Michael Hurley to the 
 State of New Jersey, to raising and removing Assembly 
 Chamber, total $1,700, less $1,000, paid on account $700, 
 both approved by Leon Abbott, Governor, and paid. 
 Q. Is that the contract to which you refer? A. No, sir. 
 Q. It is not? A. No; that is a contract for the removal of 
 the old building. 
 
 Q. What other contract was there? A. A contract, agreement 
 for digging the foundation for the new building, that was done 
 in order to expedite the work, have so much done. 
 Q. Did you make the contract ? A. With Hurley. 
 
218 JAMES MO YL AN. 
 
 Q. Yes? A. No, but I was present when the matter was 
 mentioned between him and the Governor. 
 
 Q. How was it done, by day's work or in what way? A. It 
 was done by day's work, with the understanding that it was not 
 to cost more than — I forget whether it was 25 or 30 cents a cubic 
 yard ; that was a reasonable price. 
 
 Q. And after the old building had been removed some excava- 
 tion was done by Mr. Hurley, was there? A. Oh, yes; very 
 considerable, because there was great depth and extent. 
 
 Q. "Well, the contract with Lanning seems to have been signed 
 May 12, 1891, that is, the contract to which you have referred. 
 I find a bill here of Michael Hurley, June, 1391, there is no other 
 date, but the date of payment will show it is sworn to June 3, 
 1891, for |450 additional ; approved by you. You verified that, 
 did you? A. Yes, sir; I verified that. 
 
 Q. Mr. Hurley brought you the bill as soon as the work was 
 done? A. I want to read this bill; yes, I identify that bill. 
 
 Q. Who made out the bill ? A. The bill is evidently made 
 out by him. 
 
 Q. You don't mean to say that is Hurley's handwriting? A. 
 I don't know the handwriting of the party. 
 
 Q. Made out on a state blank, is it not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. By one of the clerks in the State House, is it not? A. I 
 don't know. 
 
 Q. Well, this was, it seems, presented June 3, sworn to June 
 3. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Which was a matter of three or four weeks after the con- 
 tract of Lanning had been signed? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This work went right on after his contract had been signed 
 didn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 So that the work of excavation done by Hurley was really done 
 after the Lanning contract was signed ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. How could it be otherwise? A. If 1 am allowed to explain 
 I can explain. Hurley did the work of excavation for the new 
 building, this one building; it is a matter entirely apart from 
 this bill ; this bill is for excavation for the enlargement of a boiler 
 house made necessary on the introduction of an electric plant and 
 the bill so states. 
 
 Q. This §450, is that merely for the enlargement of the boiler 
 house? A. For the digging in connection with that. 
 
 Q. That is under part of these plans that we have got here ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where is it; show us. A. It is nothing at all to do with 
 the building. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 219 
 
 Q. Just show US where this excavation is done, thousand yards 
 and one thing another — A. It was excavated between the new 
 Assembly building — 
 
 Q. Just put your finger on the place ? A. There. 
 
 Q. Well, that is part of your Assembly plans here. A. No, it 
 isn't. 
 
 Q. Figures in red ink and black ink? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You mean to say the contract of Lanning didn't cover all 
 of these plans ? A. 1 mean to say the plans didn't cover every- 
 thing on this sheet of paper ; that is very evident. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Did Mr. Lanning sign any plans at 
 all ? A. 1 don't know. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Who prepared the plans? A. I 
 prepared the plans. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Who prepared the contract 1 A. 1 
 think the Grovernor's Private Secretary did. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Who supervised the work 1 A. 1 
 did. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Did you have a copy of the plans 
 and specifications and maps ? ^. I had a copy of the specifica- 
 tions, because I had made those myself originally, and I had a 
 copy of the plans. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Who had the original ? A. I filed 
 a copy with the Superintendent Ford. 
 
 Q. As the architect, didn't you have them? A. I had the 
 plans. 
 
 Q. Were they signed by these people? A. My impression is 
 that they were not. 
 
 Q. Wasn't this an open and shut sort of an arrangement ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Stretch and narrow it as you chose ? A. No, sir; nothing 
 whatever about that ; I will say that it was entirely — the arrange- 
 ment — 
 
 Q. I don't mean to raise any question about your honesty, but 
 those that had the contract seem to have had an easy job in this 
 thing. You pointed out to me a few minutes ago what is called 
 "old engine-house," "coal-house" — that they were simply put 
 down here to show the location? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the rest of it belonged to the contractor. Now you 
 slice off another piece of the building, and say that that don't 
 belong to the contract ? A. No ; I show you here now that that 
 is ground ; that is not a part of the building at all. 
 
 Q. This paper shows it there as a structure, and the structure 
 is there now? A. No, sir; it isn't shown as a structure. 
 
220 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 Q. These lines do not indicate any structure ? A. ISTo, sir ; 
 these lines do not indicate a portion of the Assembly Chamber ; 
 this shows the — 
 
 Q. On your interpretation you can practically draw your linger 
 wherever you please and say this contract goes to any given 
 point, can't you ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q, There is a mark indicated — put down — is there not? A. 
 The outlines of the Assembly building is outlined and it is not 
 capable of any interpretation. 
 
 Q. Then, what do these words, " floor level," mean, there 
 is to be a floor there ? A. No, sir ; that is comparatively level. 
 
 Q. Then what does it — A. That indicates the comparative 
 level of the — I think the Assembly floor. 
 
 Q. Level above the sea, I suppose? A. No; I think that is 
 the level of the engine house. 
 
 Q. Doesn't floor mean floor ? A. There. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — This engine house ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you put that there instead of there (indicating) 
 for this engine house? A. Because I think the engine house 
 was contemplated to be extended, and that is an elevation above 
 high water; that indicates the fact that the engine house level 
 is about fifteen feet below the line, and I want to say — 
 
 Q. On this same place is shown, " foundation level seventy- 
 two feet, " foundation of what? And again, " below foundation 
 level seventy-two feet, " what is that the foundation of ? Again, 
 "top of wall eighty feet," what wall? A. It seems to me it 
 means — I will look — the foundation level and the proposed ex- 
 tension of the engine house. 
 
 Q. Yes ; well, these indicate that there is to be a floor there, 
 to be a foundation there and to be a top of a wall there, do they 
 not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you not then indicated structures ? A. They do not 
 indicate any structures covered by this contract, and that is very 
 plainly evident under the contract. 
 
 Q. Why could you not with equal propriety cut off any other 
 part of the plan and say it was extra work ? A. The plans for 
 the building shows the other floors in addition ; they show more 
 clearly than this does what is covered by the contract. 
 
 Q. What is shown on this plan has been done, hasn't it ? A. 
 It has been done, yes, under another contract with Lanning, 
 
 Q. And what occupies that ground in fact, that we have been 
 discussing? A. In the extension of the boiler room. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 221 
 
 Q. Aad that extension of the boiler room connects the boiler 
 room with the capitol, doesn't it? A. It comes up close to it. 
 
 Q. Can't you walk right under the roof all the way ? A. It is 
 very much below the level; you can get down there by means of 
 getting a ladder. 
 
 Q. It is a cellar, isn't it? A. Yes, sir; part of the engine 
 house and not of the capitol. 
 
 Q. Did you give a separate contract for the engine house ? 
 A. Yes, sir; there was a separate contract for the engine house. 
 
 Q. There was a change made of the old engine house after- 
 wards ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was a verbal contract, wasn't it ? A. That was a bid 
 which was submitted to the Governor for the doing of that work 
 and signed and approved by him. 
 
 Q. Well, now, you say this digging bill of |450 that I have 
 JQSt spoken of, is the foundation digging of that boiler house — 
 that new boiler house ? A. The bill states it is boiler house and — 
 
 Q. K'ow 1 show you another bill of Michael Hurley, July, 
 1891, for |102; what is that for; it shows right on its face, 
 doesn't it? A. Yes, it is some work in digging in connection 
 with the boiler-house. 
 
 Q. It shows on its face, and it is approved by you, that it is for 
 digging the cellar of the new boiler-house ; every item says that ; 
 is that correct? A. Yes, sir; that is correct. 
 
 Q. Did they dig the cellar again? A. No, sir; the bills were 
 paid as the work progressed. 
 
 Q. Now, I show you another bill — A. I want to call your 
 attention while we are on that bill to the fact that that time was 
 kept by the engineer who has testified here to-day. 
 
 Q. Now, here is another bill for Michael Hurley for digging, 
 May 19th, 1891, right along the same time, removing wall and 
 digging cellar of Assembly Chamber, |812.50; look at that one ; 
 what is that for ? A. That hasn't any date or dates ; that is just 
 one item; that is for digging the cellar for the Assembly 
 building. 
 
 Q. I thought we dug that the first bill we got? A. No, sir, I 
 think not ; if we have, let's see. 
 
 Q. Well, was there left anything of all those bills that were 
 paid to Hurley, what digging was there left for the contractor to 
 do, if any? A. The digging for the foundations to get the sub- 
 cellar-way below the level of the ground in which it was found 
 when Hurley left it. 
 
 Q. Well, Hurley left it a considerable time after this contract 
 was made, it seems ; this contract says that the contractor will 
 
222 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 take the site as he finds it; he found it on the 12th day of May, 
 but you seem to have kept on paying Hurley until July for dig- 
 ging ; what digging did the contractor have to do, if any at all ? 
 A. The contractor had to dig below the level of the ground, 
 some part of it. 
 
 Q. That is, for the footing of the piers? A. Yes, sir; to 
 make the necessary trenches. I will say that at the time the bids 
 were being received that Hurley was at work digging that cellar, 
 and that it was understood that he would excavate a cellar ap- 
 proximately to Ihe foundation, leaving it necessary to dig only 
 the trenches. 
 
 Q. Then the specifications say that the contractor shall also do 
 the necessary refilling; what did that mean? A. Well, I don't 
 know; I don't think it means much. 
 
 Q. No, I don't believe it does, for I see that Hurley got paid 
 for refilling. A. There was no refilling in the matter of rebuild- 
 ing the buildings. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I ofter in evidence two bills of Michael 
 Hurley, one dated September, 1891, approved by the 
 Superintendent, Mr. Ford, Mr. Abbett, September 15th, 
 $115.38. " Exhibit 141." 
 
 Also bill of Michael Hurley, December 9th, 1891, for 
 $230.02, for filling and sodding behind new Assembly 
 building. " The work is done and the cost is reason- 
 able. James Moylan, Architect." 
 §. Is that your signature ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Marked " Exhibit 142." 
 Q. Well, can you think of anything that was left for the con- 
 tractor to do in the way of digging or refilling except the footing 
 of those piers? A. You are speaking upon those bills? 
 
 Q. I am speaking upon this contract and specification which 
 you drew, which said he was to do all necessary excavation and 
 filling? A. The digging of the trenches and the debris from 
 the surrounding banks that came down upon the level at which 
 he commenced. 
 
 Q. Practically the contractor did a little if any filling or cut- 
 ting, isn't that so? A. Well, there was considerable cutting 
 from the fact that he went below the surface for those trenches. 
 §. (By Senator Skirm) — Don't you know how much he went 
 below the surface; as architect, I should suppose you would 
 know? A. Yes, sir; I think he went three feet below in the 
 trenches all around. 
 
 Q. Groover them? A. No; but the cellar was not excavated 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 223 
 
 to a smooth, nice level ; it was rough ; the banks on the side 
 had fallen in and broken up ; it was roughly taken out. 
 
 Q. That is the trenches for the Assembly building? A. For 
 the wall. 
 
 Q, I show you Mr. Hurley's bill for digging trenches for the 
 Assembly chamber, $450. A. You have called my attention to 
 this bili, and I explained it. 
 
 Q. I now call your attention to it again. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It says "trenches tor Assembly walls; " that is what you 
 have described. A. The upper part of the bill is made out in 
 that way, and evidently made under a misunderstanding ; I find 
 writteu here " a thousand cubic yards in trenches for cellar and 
 boiler ; 40 cubic yards walls of the old boiler-house taken down, 
 150— $450;" now— 
 
 Q. You wrote that upon it, and that gave it some sort of a 
 standing, and it was paid? A. Yes, sir; the reference to the 
 Assembly building is evidently a misunderstanding of some one 
 who made out the bill; I don't know who. 
 
 Q. How often did you come here while the work was in pro- 
 gress? A. Not less than four days a week; I made it a rule to 
 be here four days a week, sometimes five. 
 
 Q. How often did your partner come ? A. Well, I think he 
 was here an equal amouut of time, substantially ; we were here 
 very usually together ; when he was not here, I was here. 
 
 Q. How long did the construction of the building occupy ? 
 A. From about the middle of May uutil the organization of the 
 next Legislature, which was about the middle of January foUow- 
 ma ; the building was barely finished in time, in fact there was 
 a little work being done in the cellar and around ; the thing 
 wasn't entirely completed until after the Legislature met. 
 
 Q. The chairman asked you to think over the matter during 
 recess and state whether you could assist us to find a set of these 
 plans ; have you any new suggestions to make ? A. 1 have no 
 new suggestions to make; but I will say to you that I will en- 
 deavor to get you a set of these plana, or any other information 
 you require. 
 
 Q. The State paid you for these plans? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. $1,800? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And yet there isn't a copy of them in existence to show to 
 anybody? A. The State didn't pay me the specific sum of 
 $1,800 for the plans; the State paid me for my services in con- 
 nection with the work. 
 
 Q. They paid further sums? A. Yes, sir. 
 
224 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 Q. But wasn't that the amount of the plans, the first bill ren- 
 dered? A. ISTo, sir; there was no specific charge for the plans. 
 
 Q. How was the charge arrived at? A. Charges were made 
 upon the percentage of the cost of the work. 
 
 Q. What percentage ? A. Five per cent. 
 
 Q. That ought to include a set of plans, oughtn't it ? A. Yes, 
 and it did. 
 
 ^. Did any one of these contractors ever sign a plan? A. I 
 don't know that they did. 
 
 Q. Did you ever see a plan signed by any one of them ? J.. I 
 have no recollection. 
 
 Q. Or signed by the Governor on behalf of the State? A. I 
 don't recollect they did. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Wasn't it your duty as architect to 
 see that these plans and specifications were signed by the con- 
 tractors? A. I think not. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — As supervising architect? A. I 
 think not; the Governor had that in charge largely, and I relied 
 upon his intelligence to do anything that was necessary and 
 proper. 
 
 Q. How could you identify the plans that you were really 
 working by if you had nobody's signature upon them ; there 
 were changes made in the course of preparing the plans? A. 
 My own signature was upon those plans, and while I was using 
 them I was entirely familiar with them. 
 
 Q. Is this your signature upon this plan ? A. No, that is 
 marked upon it — that is my name. 
 
 Q. Is this the original plan or not? A. I think it is a plan — 
 
 Q. Have you any doubt about it? A. No, I have not. 
 
 Q. But yet — A. I have no doubt it was the plan that illus- 
 trates the foundation. 
 
 Q. But yet it is not signed even by you, is it ? A. No, it is 
 not signed by me, I think. 
 
 Q. Nor by anyone else? A. No. 
 
 Q. Was there no set of permanent plans to be filed away pre- 
 ceding these drawings ? A. No, there were no set preceding 
 those. 
 
 Q. A mere cloth drawings is the first plan made for the capitol 
 of New Jersey? A. This cloth tracing, do you mean? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. Not them alone; there were a number of plans — 
 
 Q. What besides the blue prints? A. There were a number 
 of tracings. 
 
 Q. I know for the different floors, but this is the best that can 
 be shown, this cloth tracing? A. That identical one ? 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 225 
 
 q. Yes. A. No. 
 
 Q. "What better have you got ? A. There were a number of 
 plaus illustrating the floor — 
 
 Q. Any drawing on drawing paper — anything fit for preserva- 
 tion ? A. There is nothing more fit for preservation than cloth. 
 
 5. This you considered the height of the art? A. No, sir; I 
 do not, but I say that it is permanent, and much more permanent 
 than anything I know of. 
 
 Q. Those are made on cloth for the purpose of getting blue 
 prints? A. They are for that purpose ; they are convenient any- 
 where ; they are more permanent. 
 
 Q. No matter whether they are good or bad, those drawn in 
 that way were the only ones drawn; is that so? ^. No; ihey 
 are first drawn on paper, then transferred to cloth. 
 
 Q. On rough paper, you mean ? A. On rough paper ; on 
 drawing paper. 
 
 Q. In pencil ? J.. No ; in ink. 
 
 Q. "Where are those ink plans? A. I may have some of them 
 in the roll that I have left over. 
 
 Q. You didn't bring your roll with you ? A. Yes; I did. 
 
 Q. Have you examined it, to see what is in it ? A. 1 have 
 not ; it is a great big roll of maps, that had been tied up some 
 years ago, and all dirty and dusty. 
 
 Q. I would like to have you go through it and see what there 
 is in it. "Where did you find that ? A. In my office. 
 
 Q. Where ? A. In New York. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — The subpoena called for that, I 
 believe, and I trust you will bring them here? A. I have them, 
 and I left a lull set here at the State House when I went away, 
 and I considered I had no further use for them. 
 
 Q. Those are chiefiy working drawings, are they not? A. 
 Naturally they were, because the workings largely exceeded the 
 original plans. 
 
 Q. "Wasn't there a plati for each floor of this new Assembly 
 Chamber? A. Yes, sir; there was. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. Then didn't you preserve a plan of each floor in your 
 office ? A. After this was all over — 
 
 Q. "While the building was being constructed, didn't you have 
 a plan in your office "i A. 1 had a plan here in the State House. 
 
 Q. No; I asked you whether you didn't have a plan in your 
 office ? A. 1 made my office here and I kept my plans here. 
 
 15 SH 
 
226 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 Q. All your placs were made here or in your New York or 
 Jersey City office? A. Yes; I had duplicates of them all over 
 on all the buildings ; this was the most convenient place to have 
 them, because I was here all the time working and I required 
 them at hand. 
 
 Q. And in connection with that did I understand that when 
 these plans were prepared and agreed upon did the Governor 
 approve these plans in connection with you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It was agreed upon between you and the Grovernor that 
 these plans were acceptable ? ^. It was not agreed between him 
 and I; it was a matter of approval on his part. 
 
 Q. Then one set of plans was left with him ; I understood you 
 to say early this morning that there were three or four sets of 
 plans ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The Governor had one ? J.. I think he had one set of the 
 plans, original plans upon which the bidders bid. 
 
 Q. It would be natural for him to have it ? A. And I know 
 I left a set with the Superintendent of the Capitol. 
 
 Q. There was none left with the Comptroller? A. JSTot that 
 I know of. 
 
 Examined by Senator Ketcham. 
 
 Q. In the early part of your testimony you said you drew 
 plans for the ventilating apparatus, did you not? A. There was 
 no plans drawn for that purpose. 
 
 Q. You drew that paper pertaining to the ventilating appara- 
 tus ? A. The specifications, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you said you did the supervising of that work ? A. 
 "With the rest, yes sir. 
 
 Q. Was there need of more than one man to superintend the 
 erection of that ventilating apparatus ? A. Besides myself? 
 
 Q. Yes ? A. Well, both myself and my partner looked after 
 it. 
 
 Q. You two could do it as well as not ? A. Yes, sir ; we 
 could do it. 
 
 Q. Then you also testified that Mr. Ford under your superin- 
 tendence helped to do the work of superintending for which 
 he was paid $1,498 ; now, what specified duty was assighed to 
 Mr. Ford in connection with the ventilating apparatus as he was 
 under your superintendence, you must have given him his orders. 
 What orders did you give him ? A. I can't say that he had any 
 special connection with the ventilating; he was appointed as 
 superintendent or inspector of the work without any special 
 definition of his duties. 
 
JAMES MOYLAN. 227 
 
 Q. Without anything to do, is that it? A. No; I wouldn't 
 Bay nothing to do. 
 
 Q. What did he do, then ? A. He was around the work. 
 
 Q. You drew the plans and had charge of it ; wasn't he to 
 work? A. He was around on the work to see that the contract 
 was carried out and acting as an inspector usually does. 
 
 Q. Well, the Governor, or whoever assigned him to the work, 
 do you know what specific duty was assigned to Mr. Ford in con- 
 nection with the ventilating apparatus? A. I don't think that 
 any speciac duty was assigned to him in connection with the 
 ventilating apparatus ; I think he didn't know much about it, and 
 he was appointed inspector on that work by the Governor, and 
 he was there and looked after it to some extent; he didn't inter- 
 fere with me in any way. 
 
 Q. And you didn't interfere with him ? A. Not to any great 
 extent. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I draw your attention to Article 5 of the contract with 
 Lanning ; the party of the first part covenants and agrees that 
 the Governor of the State of New Jersey may make, or require 
 to be made, alterations in the plans of construction from that 
 herein, and in said specifications and plans expressed without 
 annulling or invalidating this contract, and in case of any such 
 alterations of conditions or extensions thereof, if they shall, in 
 the opinion of the Governor, increase the expense of the work 
 for the contractor beyond the contract price, he shall be paid 
 therefor such additional sums as the Governor shall award. If 
 the expense be decreased, such decrease shall be deducted from 
 the amount of the contract price, the amount of increase or de- 
 crease to be determined by the Governor, whose decision shall be 
 final. I call your attention also to the sixth clause: no contract 
 shall be in anywise sub-let, except by consent of the Governor, 
 and the seventh clause — the Governor shall have power at any 
 time during the progress of the work to reject any of the work 
 and cause other to be substituted. In the ninth clause, that is 
 as to materials furnished and work done, and all claims arising 
 under the contract shall be. determined by the Governor, whose 
 decision shall be final. The tenth clause, wherein it is stated 
 that any other question whatsoever shall be decided by the Gov- 
 ernor, whose decision shall be final, conclusive and binding, I 
 think, there are others similar. Did the Governor make any 
 changes under those clauses ? A. In the construction of the 
 building ? 
 
228 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 Q. Oh, yes. A. None that I can recall that is material or 
 important. 
 
 Q. That contract referred the decision of everything not to the 
 architect, but to the Governor, did it not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Left nothing for the architect to decide? A. Under the 
 nominal wording of the contract, yes. 
 
 Q. Wasn't the Governor, in fact, the architect of the building 
 during its construction? A. No. 
 
 Q. You had no power to decide anything? A. Well, but I 
 referred it to the Governor, and as a matter of consultation he 
 deferred to my judgment in most cases. 
 
 Q. And he decided ? A. And he decided ; the decision of the 
 question remained with him; he evidently didn't want to leave 
 it in the power ot any one else. 
 
 Q. In your experience as an architect did you ever draw a 
 contract before, or were you concerned in one, where one of the 
 parties was made arbitrator of all questions? A. No, sir; those 
 questions are usually left to the architect. 
 
 Qi. This contract is unique, then, in that particular? A. It is 
 peculiar in that respect ; it differs from all other contracts in that 
 respect. 
 
 Q. Referring to the Gouge contract that has also these same 
 clauses, refers everything to the Governor ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Allowing him to modify the contract in every respect, yet 
 holding the contractor; is it so? J.. I wouldn't say that he had 
 the power to modify that contract, because the contractor was 
 responsible for the results. 
 
 Q. The same clauses that I have referred to occur in the 
 Gouge ventilating contract, and refer all possible questions that 
 may arise to the Governor, and his decision shall be final; it 
 also provides for modifications of the contract at his pleasure, but 
 the contract remains binding upon the contractor? A, He was 
 held responsible for the success of the ventilating — 
 
 Q. How did the bidders who came forward look upon that 
 sort of specification referring everything to the State to modify 
 the contract and decide for itself what should be right? ^4. I 
 never heard any comment upon it. 
 
 Q. I think you eaid nobody was found to bid on the ventilation 
 except Gouge? ^4. I think that is the case. 
 
 Senator Voorheee — Do you suppose anybody would ? 
 Mr. Corbin — It is something ntw in my practice ; I 
 am unable to give an opinion which would command 
 respect. 
 
JAMES MOYLAX. 229 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Do you think that Mr. Gouge would 
 come here, Mr. Moylan? A. I will say that I met Mr. Gouge a 
 week or two since in ISTew York accidentally, and this investiga- 
 tion was talked of, and in general conversation, had on the street 
 corner, he said he was willing to come here at any time the Com- 
 mittee wished and tell everything that he knew. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Tell him to put himself in com- 
 munication with the chairman of the Committee. 
 Witness — I will do so. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — We want to get at the truth of 
 
 the matter ; if the ventilation is worth $47,000 we ought 
 
 to know it. 
 
 Q. Was anybody else besides Mr. Lanning found who would 
 
 bid on the building of the Assembly Chamber? A. Oh, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who else bid ? A. There were some seven or eight bids as 
 
 I recollect it. 
 
 Q. On parts of the work or the whole ? A. On the whole work. 
 Q. Do you know where the bids are? A. Oh, no, I didn't have 
 the custody of the bids. 
 
 Q. Do you know who the bidders were ? A. Some of them. 
 Q. Who? A. There was Adam J. Dltmar, ot Jersey City, bid 
 upon the whole thing — they all bid on the whole thing; they all 
 bid alike; there was Joseph Cntley, of Jersey City; I don't 
 recollect at the present moment the other bidders, although I 
 might be able to recall them after reflection, but I think they 
 were principally in Newark and Trenton bidders; there was a 
 mason from N'ewark who bid upon it. 
 
 Q. Who was that? A. I can't recall his name at the present 
 moment; and some bidders from Trenton; my recollection is 
 that there was some seven or eight bidders; the bids were opened 
 in my presence in the Governor's room; I was present at the 
 opening of the bids. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think I would prefer to suspend the 
 examination of this witness until the plans are in shape. 
 I would like to have an opportunity to examine and 
 arrange them. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — It has been suggested by one of 
 the members of the Committee that you desire to ex- 
 plain some of your testimony given just before recess. 
 
 Witness — In my testimony this forenoon when the 
 subject of the sub-division of the contracts for the radia- 
 tors and outside radiators was under discussion, I ex- 
 pressed the opinion that the radiators were excluded in 
 two places in the specificatious, and for the want of time 
 
230 JAMES MOYLAN. 
 
 I was unable to find that. In looking over during the 
 dinner hour I find on page 6, which has not been re- 
 ferred to at all, a clause in which it sajs, bidders will ex- 
 amine — and in order that no misunderstanding will ex- 
 ist will state the price in figures for the whole work, 
 and also the price excluding the radiators — that is, type 
 printed in the specifications of which I have a copy, and 
 it is also repeated in the latter part of the specification, 
 referring to it exclusive of the radiators — as a separate 
 item — is made in two places in the specifications and 
 they were made before the contract was awarded, and 
 the understanding was very distinct that the contract of 
 Gouge did not include the radiators at all ; it was per- 
 fectly well known, and the bids for the purpose of both 
 were received at the same time ; I remember about that 
 very distinctly. 
 Q, Bidders, then, were invited to bid for the whole work, and 
 also to bid for the radiators separately ; that is, for the whole 
 work of ventilatiou, and made separately for the radiators? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact the Gouge contract was awarded for 
 all the work mentioned in the following specifications. You 
 think that is an error, do you ? A. 1 am sure it is an error. 
 
 Q. Who is to blame for that error ? A. If the contract is 
 capable of that impression, and I don't know that it is, it is the 
 fault of whoever drew the contract. 
 
 Q. Let us not have any doubt about that ; let me read. " The 
 party of the first part — the Gouge Company — does hereby cove- 
 nant and agree to the said party of the second part to furnish all 
 the materials and perform all the labor necessary for the ventila- 
 tion and steam heating of the Assembly Chamber, at the capitol 
 building, in the city of Trenton, agreeable to plans and specifica- 
 tions which are signed and hereto annexed." This is all in type- 
 writing. Now refer to the specifications which are annexed here 
 and which are followed by acknowledgements and all that, and 
 you will find one chapter on the subject of radiators which de- 
 scribes the radiators : " There shall be about seventy radiators, 
 averaging 86 square feet of heating surface, varying in size," and 
 so on, the rest of the page ; and you think that is a blunder in 
 the contract, do you? A. ISTo; I am of the opinion that it 
 does not include the radiators; that is my interpretation of that 
 contract as it standj. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — That interpretation is not in favor 
 
JAMES MOTLAN. 231 
 
 of the State, is it ? A. At the same time I know there was a 
 definite understanding. 
 
 Q. In other words, Mr. Gouge, if he thought he was bidding 
 for the radiators as well as these pipes, would have put in $4,000 
 more it he had the radiators to put in ; that is your idea, is it, 
 that he has got it too low in bidding $21,600 ? Your idea is that 
 Mr. Gouge, in bidding this $21,600, was bidding simply for the 
 apparatus, and did not include the radiators? A. Mr. Gouge 
 submitted two bids, one excluding the radiators and one 
 including. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — For heaven's sake what was the 
 bid which included everything 1 A. \ don't recollect the figures, 
 but I believe the amount — 
 
 Q. You think he put in one bid higher than the one here ? 
 A. Oh, yes, sir, including the radiators. 
 
 §. How much higher? A. Well, 6,000 feet of radiators at 30 
 cents a square foot. 
 
 Q. That would be about $18,000 more? A. About that, yes, 
 sir. 
 
 q. It seems it cost the State $2,700 and $1,500, which will be 
 $4,200 ? A. That was a different matter. 
 
 Q. You think, then. Gouge's $25,000 was his lowest bid for the 
 part of the work ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — The Senator from Middlesex, 
 without any reflection on you, suggests very pertinently 
 that the State paid twice for some of this work. 
 
 §. Who attended to the execution of these papers 1 A. \. 
 think the Governor's son. 
 
 q. Mr. Loon Abbett, Jr. ? J.. I think he prepared those con- 
 tracts. 
 
 Q. And he took the acknowledgment of the parties to it? 
 A. I think so. 
 
 Q. He took the acknowledgment as Master in Chancery and 
 wituessed the bond; his signature appears here a number of 
 times 1 A. \ understand he drew up the contract. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) All the clerical labor was performed by 
 the Governor's private secretary ? A. Yes, sir. I want to say 
 you have had this before ; all I was interested in was the specifi- 
 cations. 
 
 §. Were these submitted to the Attorney-General? A. I 
 don't know. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether any counsel other than Leon Ab- 
 bett, Jr., had supervision of it? ^. Oh, no; I had nothing to 
 do with that part of it. 
 
232 MICHAEL HURLEY. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would prefer to suspend this witness"^ 
 examination until we have had an opportunity of look- 
 ing at the plans. 
 
 Michael Hurley, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Did you bring the rest of your books ? A. The bookkeeper 
 has them. 
 
 Q. Is he here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you tear down the old Assembly Chamber? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you make a bargain first ? A. They advertised for 
 contracts, and it was awarded to the lowest bidder. 
 
 Q. What did you get for it? A. $1,700 for tearing down the 
 old building. 
 
 Q. Did you make any written contract? A. I don't know 
 that I did. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the plaster and rubbish that was 
 left ? A. My bid for tearing it down included all the material 
 that was not used again; I was to have it. 
 
 Q. Was that in writing ? ^. It was in their bid. 
 
 Q. You left the material on the ground, didn't you ? A. No,^ 
 sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the stone ? A. Most of the stone 
 was used back in the building; what wasn't used, I carted away. 
 
 Q. Have you got a copy of your bid? A. I don't know that 
 I have ; I think if you get the daily papers that was published at 
 that time — they published the different bidders and the different 
 price ; it was a hurried job. 
 
 Q. You didn't sign any contract? A. I couldn't say that I 
 did. 
 
 Q. Who did you make the bargain with? A. The Governor. 
 
 Q. Didn't your bargain provide that you were to leave the 
 brick and stone piled upon the premises? A. No, sir; my bar- 
 gain said that all material that was not used in the building was 
 mine. 
 
 Q. Who said that? A. I say so. 
 
 Q. Well, you did, as a matter of fact, pile up the stone and 
 brick nn the ground, or most of them; didn't you? A. A great 
 deal of it. 
 
 Q. And you claim that belongs to you? A. No, sir; what 
 was not used in the building belonged to me ; they used some of 
 it in the building. 
 
 Q. The greater part of the stone was used in the building ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
MICHAEL HUKLEY. 233 
 
 Q. You took some stone away ? -4. I took eome stone away , 
 and I have got them yet. 
 
 Q. And you took iron away? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you haven't a scrap of paper to show what the terms 
 of that contract was? A. I made a written proposition, as they 
 advertised for. 
 
 Q. And you made your bid in accordance with the printed 
 advertisement? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You bid $1,700, in accordance with the advertisement? 
 A. Yes, sir; and I was low; there was three or four bidders. 
 
 §. And you took away such parts as could not be used and 
 piled up the rest of the brick and stone on the ground ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. You cleaned them off, didn't you ? A. JSTo, sir ; I don't 
 think I did ; the contractors of the building did that. 
 
 Q. You didn't even do that? A. I wouldn't be positive ; if I 
 did I got paid for it. 
 
 Q. The stones and brick that you left went into the building 
 again, did it? A. Some of it, and some of it went over the hill. 
 
 Q,. Where is the hill ? A. Right back there. 
 
 Q. You mean thrown into the dump down there? A. Any of 
 it that was not fit to use, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That you got paid for too, didn't you ? A. No ; I got paid 
 for that work and carted it away. 
 
 Q. You filled over the hill, didn't you, most of it? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. "What was there of the materials that were useful besides 
 the stone and brick ? A, Why, we got the lumber, too ; anybody 
 that wanted it ; we had to tear it down in a hurry and get any- 
 body that wanted to to take it ; we were not particular. 
 
 Q. Iron girders ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Windows ? A. No ; I didn't get any of the windows. 
 
 y. What did you do with the windows t A. \ think the 
 windows — the sash were sold at public sale here. 
 
 Q. You didn't take those ; you took the iron and part of the 
 stone ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But the greater part of the stone you left on the ground, 
 did you not? A. The foundation stone, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Lintels for windows? A. JSTo, sir, I took them away; they 
 were not used in the building ; took them away and piled them 
 up on my lot. 
 
 A. Afterwards you were employed to fill the lot back here, 
 weren't you ? ^. I did some of it, yes, sir. 
 
234 ASHEE B. LAMBERT. 
 
 AsHEE E. Lambert, recalled. 
 
 Exanined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Do you remember what was done with the stone and brick 
 that was lelt from the old Assembly Chamber ? A. The stone 
 was used back in the fouudatiou. 
 
 Q. Have you ever measured up the quantity of stone that was 
 left here and made an estimate of the value of it? A. 1 had an 
 estimate. 
 
 Q. What was the value of the stone that was left on the 
 ground ? A. About $3,000. 
 
 Q. And the contractor, Lanning, put it in the walls, did he ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The contract says that the contractor 
 shall furnish all materials and perform all labor neces- 
 sary for the work on the building. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Ford call your attention to this matter of the stone 
 that was left on the property? A. He did. 
 
 Q. When was that ? A. During the time of the foundations. 
 
 Q. Just state what was said about it? A. Well, he told me to 
 keep a record of the number of perch of stone that went back in 
 the building, as near as I could. 
 
 Q. What else ? A. Well, for the purpose, he said, that we 
 would have that for ourselves. 
 
 Q. Well, it did go back in the building, did it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was any account ever made of it, as far as you know? 
 A. I never saw it. 
 
 Q. You never heard anything about it thaa that the stone 
 which belonged to the State was used in that building, was it? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the contractor ever pay the State anything for it, so far 
 as you know ? A. I never saw anything on record. 
 
 Q. And the value of that stone was about $3,000? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And you say the Superintendent of the State House pro- 
 posed that deliberately; did he, before the work was done? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That you should keep a measurement, and " we would 
 have whatever there was in that for ourselves? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever get anything for yourself out of it ? A. Not 
 a penny. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — It seems to me we have been pay- 
 ing twice over. When Mr. Hurley was digging around 
 here — you heard us speak of the bills that were put in 
 — did you pitch in and help him dig ? A. No. 
 
WILLIAM d'arcy. 235 
 
 Q. Was there some digging done for wiiich the State paid? 
 A. Not exactly in digging ; the tearing down of the old building. 
 Q. Yes, or tearing down, either? A. Yes, there was some 
 labor paid for 
 
 Q. Just state what labor was paid for by the State in helping 
 to tear down that building? A. Well, I didn't consider it safe 
 to tear the building down with ordinary laborers, and I went to 
 Mr. Ford about it, and he told me to get whatever necessary 
 help I needed in the way of carpenters, and I telephoned to Mr, 
 John Lindsay for men. 
 
 Q. You were here under that salary at that time, were you 
 not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much salary ? A. $1,200 a year. 
 Q. You got carpenters? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you proceed to help tear down the building; A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Who directed you to do so? A. Mr. Ford, the Superin- 
 tendent. 
 
 Q. Was that while Mr. Hurley was tearing it down under his 
 contract? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who paid your men fur doing it? A. The State. 
 Q. Is it in the State Treasurer's account? Yes, sir. 
 Q. Was it part of the work covered by Mr. Hurley's contract? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would like to have a chance to examine 
 the books which have been produced by Mr. Hurley. 
 I suggest that the Committee investigate the state of 
 aflairs in the basement of this building (the State 
 House.) Mr. Bonnell, the Custodian, will show us all 
 the rooms in the basement ; there are some hundreds of 
 tons of public documents there of great value, at least 
 they cost a great deal — which the Committee would like 
 to see. There is a condition of affairs there which I 
 think the Committee ought to understand and possibly 
 may like to investigate. As this will occupy a half hour 
 or so I suggest that we adjourn for the day. 
 
 Adjourned to Friday, March 22d, at 10 o'clock, A. M. 
 
 Trenton, March 23d, 1895, 10 A. M. 
 William D'Arcy, recalled. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I show you the book which you have produced here, some- 
 what torn; what is this? A. That is the contracting ledger. 
 
236 WILLIAM d'aecy. 
 
 Q. Contracting ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Of Michael Hurley? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How did it come to be all torn to pieces? A. Well, it is 
 rather an old book, and that is the best condition we could keep 
 it in. 
 
 Q. I see there is a round hole punched through the corner of 
 the pages through it; how happened that? A. To bind them 
 together. 
 
 Q. You have had it bound together, then, with a string, have 
 you ? A. JSTot with a string ; with a little binder — tack. 
 
 Q. Do you know that it is all here? A. Yes, sir; it is all 
 there. 
 
 Q. What dates does it cover? A. Beginning in 1891. 
 
 Q. Is it all in your handwriting? A. ITot all, no, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it commenced before you went with Mr. Hurley as 
 bookkeeper? A. There are some entries in the beginning of 
 the book; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But from the time you went there, in 1891, it is all in your 
 handwriting? A. Yes, sir, pretty much. 
 
 Q. What time in 1891 did you go with Mr. Hurley — go into 
 Mr. Hurley's employ 1 A. 1 had charge of the outside work 
 prior; all the contracting which we did around this building 
 during the summer of 1891, and in October, 1891, I assumed 
 charge of the large ledgers in the office — the coal ledgers. 
 
 Q. When did you commence to make entries in his books ? 
 A. October, 1891, in the large ledgers; in this one I made them 
 in the summer, along in May and June. 
 
 Q. Have you made a search for Michael Hurley's cash books 
 for the years 1889 to 1892? A. Yes, sir; we have made a 
 thorough search. 
 
 Q. Where did you look ? A. Through all parts of the office. 
 
 Q. Can't you find the cash books? A. ISTo, sir; they are not 
 in existence. 
 
 Q. When did you last see them ? A. The last time I saw the 
 cash book which you asked for Monday — 
 
 Q. The cash book which I am now speaking of, covering the 
 period from 1889 to 1892 ? A. Well, it is over a year ago. 
 
 Q. Where did you see it? A. 1 saw it when I brought it 
 from the closet in such a condition that it could not be preserved 
 anv longer. 
 
 Q. What did you do with it? A. I think I told you Monday 
 that I destroyed it ; it was not fit for preservation. 
 
 Q. How did you destroy it? A. 1 burned it. 
 
 Q. Was it the one cash book ? A. More than one cash book. 
 
WILLIAM d'arcy. 237 
 
 Q. You mean to say that you burned up the cash books of 
 Michael Hurley's business from 1889 to 1892. Did you consult 
 Mr. Hurley about it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You did it of your own accord ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Anybody suggest it to you ? A. Nobody suggested it. 
 
 Q,. Who was present when you burned up those cash books ? 
 A. Mr. Terradel. 
 
 Q. Did he have anything to say about it? A. No, sir; I had a 
 conversation with him, in which I stated that the closet which 
 held them was so — 
 
 Q. Did he have anything to say about it? A. No, sir; he is a 
 neighbor there of ours in business, and he happened to step in to 
 use the phone. 
 
 Q. How many books did you burn ? A. One. 
 
 Q. That had all the cash in ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did it have the debit cash and the credit cash ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. "W hich did it have ? A. Credit cash. 
 • §. Where is the debit cash account ? A. You have it here. 
 
 Q. Covering the period I speak of, from 1889 to 1892? A. You 
 have it there. 
 
 Q. Find it; this begins January 3, 1891 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Now, where is your debit cash book for 1889 and 1890 ? 
 A. I wasn't in charge of the books at that time. 
 
 Q. Where is your cash book? A. I can't answer ; I wasn't 
 in charge of the books at that time. 
 
 Q. When you became bookkeeper in 1891, wasn't the cash 
 book for the previous year there? A. The debit cash ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. That is the debit cash book. 
 
 q. That begins January, 1891; I want 1889 and 1890 ? A. I 
 don't know anything about that. 
 
 Q. Weren't they there when you became bookkeeper ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 §. You mean to say that all previous to those cash books had 
 been already destroyed ? J.. I didn't say anything of the kind ; 
 I assumed charge of the books that the previous bookkeeper left 
 there. 
 
 Q. You haven't any cash book for the previous year at all ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you ever seen it ? A. Never seen it ;. no, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have any ledger in which you entered the cash or 
 posted it? A. Not that I know of; no. 
 
 q. Don't you know what books you keep "i A.\ know that 
 you have got all the books that we have in our possession. 
 
238 WILLIAM D ARCY. 
 
 Q. Have you got any ledger to which you transfer your cash 
 now? A. Have we ? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Answer the question without re- 
 peating it. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where is it? A. It must be there; you have got all the 
 books. 
 
 Q. Show me the cash accounts in the ledgers there. A. It is 
 entered in that small book there, amount of cash received during 
 the year. 
 
 Q. Have you got any ledger to which you transferred your 
 cash? A. JSTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Haven't you got a ledger you call your private ledger ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got any ledger showing the condition of your 
 business? A. Fo, sir. 
 
 Q. Show us the merchandise account? A. We have the 
 merchandise account posted to the large ledger. 
 
 Q. You mean you have individual accounts of customers ? 
 A. Yes, sir;. of merchandise bought. 
 
 Q. Have you any ledger showing the condition of your busi- 
 ness ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, do you mean to tell me that the only place you enter 
 cash is in the debit side of that book and a credit in that way 
 here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that there is cash entered in no other way on your cash 
 book; how about that? A. Cash disbursements. 
 
 Q. Both receipts and disbursements? A. Mr. Hurley will 
 have to answer that. 
 
 Q. You can't answer that ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You kept a cheek book, too? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact, isn't there a book which you haven't 
 brought here at all which has got your cash account, both sides 
 of it? A. No, sir; there was not. 
 
 Q. Was there not one before you destroyed it? A. No, sir; 
 there was not. 
 
 Q. And you can't tell us the condition of your cash to-day ? 
 A. Yes, sir; certainly we can. 
 
 Q. How do you tell? A. Tell how much we have on hand 
 and how much is iu the bank ? 
 
 Q. How do you tell how much you have on hand? A. C^unt 
 up. 
 
 Q. Then you go up and look in the bank account and see 
 what is in the bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
ABRAM SWAN. 239 
 
 Q. You haven't any books to which you can refer to tell how 
 much cash you have on hand ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And that has been the condition of affairs ever since you 
 have been bookkeeper ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that the only way you know the condition of your cash 
 is to count what is in the drawer and then look in the bank book 
 and see what the bank credits you with? A. That is all. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact, on the stub of your check bboks you 
 do force a balance once in a while, don't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And in the ledger, too? A. In the ledger we balance the 
 accounts too. 
 
 Q. Force a balance ? A. What do you mean by forcing a 
 balance ? 
 
 Q. I guess you know, don't you ? A. No, I don't know. 
 Q. You make them balance whether they do balance or not ? 
 A. Make what balance? 
 
 Q. Your ledger accounts. A. Sometimes, yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence this mutilated boDk. 
 Turn to the book which has been produced, which the 
 witness has called " Contracting Ledger." On page 
 40 of this ledger there is an item, " Ex. cellar and 
 trenches, $450," which is evidently the item of $450 for 
 the digging to which reference was made the other day. 
 I submit that both the red ink and the black ink are 
 obviously different from all the rest of the page, and 
 that it is a fresh entry, although it is dated 1891. Note 
 the fact, also, that that entry is not to be found referred 
 to in any of the other book3. 
 
 The book will be marked " Exhibit 143." 
 
 Abkam Swan, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Did you bid for the tearing down of the old Assembly 
 Chamber, in accordance with the advertisement in the paper in- 
 viting bids? A. I did, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you see the specification on which the bids were to be 
 made ^ A. J did. 
 
 Q, Where was it ? A. It was here. 
 
 Q. Well, in what office ? ^. Mr. Ford's. 
 
 Q. Have you any copy of that specification ? A.I have not. 
 
 Q. What did that specification provide with reference to the 
 disposition to be made of the material? A. It stated that the 
 bidder should bid for the tearing down of the work, and leave 
 all material upon the grounds. 
 
"240 B. p. EVERETT — JAMES M. SEYMOUE. 
 
 Q. Did it state as to where it was to be placed ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 on the river bank. 
 
 Q. You bid upon it, upon the specification in that form, did 
 you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 B. F. Everett, sworn. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you live? A. 10 Rusling street, Trenton, N. J. 
 Q. Did you bid for the tearing down of the Assembly Cham- 
 ber ? ^. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you see the specification upon which you framed your 
 bid ? A. Y'es, sir. 
 
 Q. "Where did you see it? A. 1 believe it was in Mr. Ford's 
 office, or the Superintendent's office ; I didn't know Mr. Ford at 
 that time. 
 
 Q. What did the specification provide with reference to the 
 disposition of the material ? A. The specifications specified that 
 the material was all to be left on the ground — the opposite side 
 of the water power. 
 
 Q. And you bid upon that basis, did you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you retain any copy of the specification ? A- No, sir. 
 
 Q. And you have none ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It was proved the other day that these 
 specifications were. gone. We can find no record of 
 them anywhere, either in the Governor's office or the 
 Superintendent's office, and therefore we have proved 
 the contents of them in this way. The Committee will 
 also recall Michael Hurley's testimony with reference 
 to his construction of it, that he was entitled to all 
 material that was not actually used. 
 
 James M. Seymour, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation? A. Consulting engineer. 
 
 Q. Consulting engineer with reference to what kind of busi- 
 ness? A. Heating and ventilating ; all kinds of air moving. 
 
 Q. Will you state what your education has been with reference 
 to that profession ? A. Well, it has been a mechanical educa- 
 tion. I was first in the High School, in Newark ; then I bad a 
 private tutor in mathematics; and from there I went to work for 
 Edison, and was engaged for him for a year and a half, with him 
 at Menlo Park ; then he sent me to Europe, to represent him in 
 the construction of telephone and electric plants. I staid there, 
 in his employ and in the employ of the International Company, 
 
JAMES M. SEYMOUE. " 241 
 
 in diflerent countries in Europe, until 1884, in August, when I 
 came home; during that time I had to make air movement a 
 study, because it aflected my business in stringing wires. 
 
 Q. Did you take special instruction in that branch of work? 
 A. I didn't take special instruction, but I had the advice of the 
 best experts I could get on meteorological afiairs. 
 
 Q. How long were you in Europe, engaged in these occupa- 
 tions and studies? A. Five years and a half. 
 
 Q. And upon your return ? A. On my return I went to assist 
 nay father in his business, Seymour & Whitlock — employed by 
 him. 
 
 Q. What business? A. His business is a general machine 
 business, but he had a branch that was ventilating. 
 
 Q. To what have you given your attention from 1884 to the 
 present time ? A. Ventilating and heating entirely. 
 
 Q. Have you a special study of the subject? A. Yes, air. 
 
 Q. That is your specialty ? A. Yes, sir ; that is my specialty ; 
 I don't propose to do anything else now. 
 
 Q. Have you made a study of it from a scientific point of 
 view ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you put in ventilating plants ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you examined the heating and ventilating plant now 
 in existence for the Assembly Chamber and Senate Chamber of 
 this building? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. State how minute your examination has been ? A. I came 
 here and brought two assistants on Tuesday ; we started at the 
 boilers ; measured the pipes from the boilers to the extreme of 
 «aeh line, running all lines that lead to the radiators in different 
 parts of this building; then we started on the air ducts at the 
 roof and traced them down to their terminals, measuring them 
 and computing their weight, and the size, iron and labor, and 
 approximate cost, as near as it is possible to estimate anything 
 that is in position — of its value. 
 
 Q. Did you also examine the radiators and their appliances? 
 A. Yes, sir ; all of them. 
 
 Q. And estimate upon those as well ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you make an examination and estimate upon all the 
 details of the heating and ventilating connected with these build- 
 ings ? A. Everything pertaining to it. 
 
 Q. What was the result of your estimate of the proper cost for 
 the Assembly Chamber heating and ventilating plant ; suppose 
 it to be erected in January, 1892 — December, 1891, and January, 
 1892? A. My estimate of the cost is an estimate of what it 
 would cost me to do it. 
 
 16 SH 
 
242 ■ JAMES M. SEYMOUR. 
 
 Q. Just put it that way first. A. I don't know what it might 
 cost somebody else. 
 
 Q. Yes. A. The actual cost, without allowing any profit 
 whatever to the contractor ? 
 
 Q. Just put it 80. A. For the Assembly Chamber is $10,710. 
 
 Q. Now, what profit have you added in that estimate, what 
 estimate of profit? A. 30 per cent. 
 
 Q. Add 30 per cent., and what does the whole thing amount 
 to? ^.$15,300. [Clerical error. The true amount is $13,923.] 
 
 Q. Take the Senate Chamber; what is the cost of that? A. 
 The actual cost to the contractor, $8,540 ; 30 per cent, added is 
 $12,200. [Clerical error ; true amount, $11,102.] 
 
 Q. You have said 30 per cent. ; how does that compare with 
 the profits in that business ; is it a good, full profit, or otherwise ? 
 A. "Well, there is nobody in the business that makes 30 per cent, 
 on the year's business. 
 
 Q. That is an outside profit, is it ? A. That is an outside 
 profit. 
 
 Q. For the Assembly Chamber I think you said $15,300, 
 [$13,923], including 30 per cent, profit? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This estimate of the cost of the 
 Assembly Chamber is $15,300, [§13,923], and the cost 
 to the State was $26,073. And his estimate of the cost 
 of the Senate is $12,200, [$11,102], and the cost to the 
 State is $26,688. 
 
 Q. What have you to say as to this ventilating and heating 
 system ; is it a modern system in vogue at the present time, or is 
 it obsolete? A. It is obsolete. 
 
 Q. How long since that sort of thing was put in by the best 
 engineers as the most approved system? A. It has not been 
 recognized in, well, to my knowledge, five years, in modern 
 buildings. 
 
 Q. Was it in use about thirty years ago ? A. Yes, sir ; so far 
 as I know. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact is it eflective to properly ventilate a 
 building? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. These tubes that we see at the top, what are they supposed 
 to do? A. Supposed to take out air, carry off air. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact do they carry it off or bring it in ? A, 
 A cubic foot of air could not leave this room until a cubic foot 
 comes in, and if the registers on the sides don't allow enough air 
 to come in to supply the fall current to each one of those up 
 ducts there would have to be a down draft in one to supply the 
 deficiency which is caused by the up draft in the others. 
 
JAMES M. SEYMOUK. 243 
 
 Q. Isn't that as a matter of fact so by observation ? ^. At 
 times it is so. 
 
 Q. The wind outside has something to do with it? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Is this system of ventilation in these two chambers when 
 used in its present condition at all reliable and effective to venti- 
 late these chambers? A. Its effectiveness depends upon the 
 temperature of the atmosphere ; when it is very cold, then all 
 such ducts as these on the roof will be active ; their activity 
 depends upon the weight of the column of air in the duct and 
 the surrounding air outside at the same height. 
 
 Q. Suppose it is not very cold? A. Then they act very little, 
 and in warm weather they act not at all. 
 
 Q. Won't exhaust the air from the rooms ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you observe the condition of the radiators? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 ^. "What was their condition ? A. Well, a good many leaking. 
 
 Q. Did you notice that they had drip pans under them? A. 
 Yes, sir ; all of the annexed radiators I saw, and I examined 
 twenty, I think. 
 
 §. Did you observe that a large number of them were entirely 
 shut off'? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Can this system that has been installed in these two 
 chambers be made effective to properly ventilate them without 
 radical changes ? A. Wo, sir. 
 
 Q. "What has got to be done to make a proper system of heat- 
 ing and ventilating? A. There has got to be a positive supply 
 of warmed air furnished. 
 
 Q. Would these appliances that we see about here play any 
 part at all in a new system that would have to be put in ? A. 
 Yes, you could cut them off and use them for exhausts. 
 
 Q. Well, now, that question of exhaust, you have spoken of 
 that as depending upon the weight of the column of air, and so 
 on, how is that subject of exhausting impure air treated by modern 
 engineers; how is that done? A. It is either taken out by fans 
 which rhove it positively, or it is allowed to find its own way out 
 of a room where there is a pressure of air placed on that room. 
 
 Q. Fresh air forced in ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Were either of those methods applied ? A. No; with that 
 I have seen it is all natural draft. 
 
 §. Simply natural draft? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then for the proper ventilation and heating of these rooms 
 you would consider these plans a failure, would you not ? A. I 
 should; yes, sir. 
 
244 J. F. SPEECHLEN. 
 
 Q. Would any engineer skilled in this line of business think 
 of putting in such contrivances as these at this day 1 A. \ don't 
 think he would stay in business if he did. 
 
 Q_. What would it have cost in December, 1891, and January, 
 1892, to have put in a first-class heating and ventilating plant, ac- 
 cording to modern methods and the most approved engineering 
 ideas, to suitably ventilate and heat these two chambers ? A. Well, 
 I couldn't say, except very approximately. I should say $12,000 a 
 chamber; I should be willing to have undertaken it at $12,000 a 
 chamber. 
 
 Q. In other words, less money than what you have estimated 
 that these should have cost ? Yes, sir ; with a 30 per cent, profit 
 added. 
 
 <2. You have added the profit ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that for this worthless plant, that has cost some $48,000 
 — that instead of this, there could have been placed a modern 
 plant, suitable and proper for the purpose, for about $24,000 ? A. 
 That is my figure ; I can only arrive at that by approximating it 
 with work that I know of. 
 
 Q. Have you had charge of the ventilating and heating of 
 large buildings ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. State some of them. A. The Postal Telegraph Building in 
 New York, the basement work, through a sub-contractor ; I was 
 the sub-contractor of the Manhattan Life ; the Howland House, 
 I had complete charge of that ; Clard Thread Company Build- 
 ings, ventilating, and a number of hotels; such large buildings; 
 Chatham Bank, their heating and ventilating. 
 
 Q. Those all represent much larger problems than these two 
 chambers, do they not? A. Yes, sir, except the Chatham Bank'; 
 that is a small one. 
 
 J. F. Sprechlen, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you live? ^1. Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your present occupation ? A. Looking alter the 
 engine, boilers and the heating department of the State House. 
 
 (2- You are the engineer here at the State House ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 y. What is the condition of the radiators in the Assembly 
 Chamber and Senate Chamber ? A. Well, there are some of the 
 radiators in the Senate Chamber that cannot be used at all; 
 others are leaking. 
 
 Q. Have you made any count to see how many of them can't 
 be used? A. Yes, sir, I have. In the Assembly Chamber 17 
 
J. F. SPRECHLEN. 245 
 
 out of 40 cannot be used at all, and in the cloak-room there is 
 five out of eight that cannot be used at all, haven't been used 
 this winter ; in the Supreme Court there is four radiators that 
 continually leak, but we still use them, but we can hardly keep 
 them in repair; in the Governor's room there is four of them 
 leaking, and of course we are repairing them continually and 
 keep basins underneath them to catch the water ; in the Senate 
 Chamber there is six out of thirty-two cannot be used at all. 
 
 Q. Are there others that are out of order? A. Yes, sir, there 
 are others out of order, but we use them ; but these we can't use 
 — six out of thirty-two we can't use; there are sixty-one in the 
 upper part of the building and the lower part of the building 
 thertt that we are using, but we are continually repairing and 
 keeping pans underneath them to catch the drip-water. 
 
 Q. You have pans underneath nearly all of them, haven't you ? 
 A. Yes, sir, from what I understand, these pans, when the radia- 
 tors were put in these pans were furnished for that purpose, to 
 catch the dripping. 
 
 Q. Have you tried to repair them and keep them tight? 
 A. Yes. 
 
 Q. But the numbers you have stated are useless, are they? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What have you observed about this system of ventilation as 
 to these ducts that are supposed to carry the air off? A. Well, 
 I don't think it does it fully. 
 
 Q. Have you not found, at times, that air comes in where it is 
 supposed to be taken ofi? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you had trouble with them ? A. ISTo, I don't know 
 that I have had any trouble with them, any more than the Sena- 
 tors I guess know about that; it comes down on their heads. 
 
 Q. At certain times the air comes in instead of going out? 
 A. It comes down; I guess every Senator knows that. 
 
 Q. They don't satisfactorily ventilate the chamber? A. I 
 don't think so. 
 
 Q. What about this radiating system ; what has got to be 
 done with that to make it work? A. I don't know; you take 
 the cloak room, and about every day or two I go down there and 
 bleed those radiators and get from four to five buckets of water 
 out of those radiators that doesn't return back to the boiler. 
 
 Q. That indicates improper construction, doesn't it? A. It 
 looks very much so to me. 
 
 Q. You have to draw the water off from them to make them 
 work? A. Yes, sir. 
 
246 MICHAEL HURLEY. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have three witnesses here, Mr. Hurley, 
 Mr. Fritz and Mr. D'Arcy, whom I desire to examine, 
 and I ask the Committee in this case to make the order 
 that while one is under examination the other two shall 
 not be present. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The request is a proper one, 
 and that order will be made, and the Committee will 
 further suggest that you will consider it a favor if no 
 communications will be held with the witness. 
 
 Michael Hurley, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I show you thirty-five bills for fuel delivered to the State 
 House. Look these over as I hand them to you and see whether 
 that is your signature upon the affidavit on the back of each one ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (Counsel handed witness the bills referred to and he 
 examined thom.) 
 
 Q. Did you sign them all? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And swear to them all? J. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. With whom did you make your bargain to deliver coal to 
 the State House ? A. Well, the first bargain I had, Mr. Ford 
 sent out to the difierent coal dealers to give them prices in 
 delivering broken coal to the State, and I sent him a bid. 
 
 Q. You sent it to him — you didn't go to see him? A. Well, 
 I seen him, too, but I sent him a bid ; he asked for it. 
 
 Q. Well, you got the contract — what year was that ? A. 
 Well, th3 first year he came here I furnished part of the coal, I 
 guess. 
 
 Q. Was the contract in writing? A. No, sir ; it was verbal. 
 
 §. The years following that — did you make a bargain with 
 him every year? A. No, sir; I continued to sell the coal here. 
 Tne prices varied. As the Coal Exchange changed the price we 
 changed with the State ; we sold to the State the same price that 
 we sold to any other institution. 
 
 Q. There was no price agreed on then? A. Yes, whatever 
 the price was at the time; it varied from time to time, as the 
 price of the mines changed, we changed the State price; if it 
 lowered the State got the benefit of it and the public got the 
 benefit ; if it went up — 
 
 Q. But there was no price fixed beforehand? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. It was to be whatever you fixed for others? A. What- 
 ever — 
 
 §. No memorandum made of this? A. No, sir. 
 
MICHAEL HUKLEY, 247 
 
 Q, Was there any agreement as to the quantity that was to be 
 iurnished ? A. All they ordered, 
 
 Q. Any agreement as to when it was to be delivered ? A. 
 Well, I had orders to keep the place supplied with coal. 
 
 Q. By that you mean the boiler rooms down here ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Was there any agreement as to where it was to be weighed ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Nor by whom it was to be weighed ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it to be gross ton or net ton ? A. Gross ton. 
 
 Q. 2,240 pounds to the ton? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You swore to all these bills before a notary public here at 
 the State House, did you not? A. Yes, sir; I believe I did. 
 
 Q. You brought them up yourself and swore to them ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Either before Mr. Boyd or Mr. McNeely or some other 
 notary who would be here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you bring the bill with you when you came up to swear 
 to it? A. 1 guess I always brought the bill along. 
 
 Q. Who made out the bills? A. Some of my employes; I 
 can't say who. 
 
 Q. Was the Superintendent's approval put upon it before or 
 after you swore to it ? A. When the bills came here they were 
 handed to Mr. Boyd and Mr. Boyd compared them with those 
 slips that we left here, and sometimes Mr. Riker went over, too, 
 with Mr. Boyd, and T don't know when the Superintendent ap- 
 proved them ; but I know sometimes they would send for me 
 when there was an error, and I used to tell some of the men 
 around hero to correct them, as I couldn't do it myself. 
 
 Q. The question I asked you was whether you swore to them 
 before or after the Superintendent approved them? A. That I 
 cannot answer. 
 
 Q. When you brought these bills up and swore to them you 
 generally got the warrant and signed the receipt for it the same 
 day, didn't you? A. Generally did. 
 
 Q. And got your check ? A. Sometimes, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. As a rule, didn't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And took the check away with you 1 A. 1 always done 
 that, you know. 
 
 Q. The whole thing was done at once then, one day ? A. 
 Pretty well so, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And yet you can't say when the Superintendent approved 
 them? A. I can't say; sometimes we would bring them up two 
 
248 MICHAEL HURLEY. 
 
 or three days before, sometimes all on the same day, and some- 
 times they would lay here a week ; I ain't positive on that. 
 
 Q. Refresh your memory. T will tell you that a list of them 
 shows from examination of dates that in about nine cases out of 
 ten the date of the aiiidavit, the date of the check, the date of the 
 warrant, the date of your receipt are all the same day. A. It 
 might be that way. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Ford approve them in your presence ? A. Some- 
 times ; he always let the engineer go over them before he 
 approved them. 
 
 Q. When you brought the bills up, to whom did you hand 
 them ? A. Generally handed them to Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. Did you bring them in duplicate, or single bills ? A. All 
 single bills, I guess. 
 
 Q. Think of that a little ; didn't you bring duplicates ? A^ 
 ITot to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. On certain occasions didn't you bring duplicates? A. I 
 don't know of any. 
 
 Q. Then didn't you send a duplicate beforehand ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where was the engineer, checking this off with Riker and 
 Ford ? J.. I don't know anything about that. 
 
 Q. Why did you swear to it ? J.. I never seen the engineer 
 and Riker ; sometimes Mr. Ford would tell me to hand the bill 
 to Mr. Boyd ; I have never seen them together at all. 
 
 Q. You swore a few minutes ago that the engineer always 
 checked them off before they were passed ? A. Well, Mr. Ford 
 used to say, " Give the bill to the engineer," when he didn't 
 check it himself, and the engineer took it and always approved 
 the bill. 
 
 Q. And he would go out and come back with it, would he ? 
 A. I can't tell you that. 
 
 Q. You saw the bill afterwards, you say? A. Sometimes I 
 did ; sometimes I didn't; I had other business. 
 
 Q. You waited about the State House until you got your 
 check? A. IsTo; go away and come back in the afternoon. 
 
 q. But you left the bills with Mr. Ford ? A. ISTot all the time ; 
 no. 
 
 Q. Who else did you leave them with ? A. Sometimes carry 
 them in to Mr. Riker, in the Treasurer's office. 
 
 Q. But you gave them to either Riker or Ford ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever go over them with Ford to see whether they 
 were right ? A. ISTo, sir ; that was not my business. 
 
 Q. It will be sufficient for you to answer the questions, with- 
 
MICHAEL HURLEY. 249 
 
 out commenting. Did you go over them with anybody? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, after your bookkeeper made them out, didn't you 
 look them over yourself? A. l^o, sir; I had confidence in my 
 bookkeeper; I am not a bookkeeper myself, and I always took it 
 that it was right ; I unfortunately am not a bookkeeper myself; 
 I couldn't do it. 
 
 Q. But you never went over one of them afterwards? A. It 
 wouldn't do me any good to go over them if I did. 
 
 Q. Did you? A. If there were any errors they would send 
 for me, and I would tell them to correct them. 
 
 Q. Why don't you answer the question ? J.. I am not posi- 
 tive ; I might have looked at them a dozen times; I couldn't tell 
 about that. 
 
 Q. I asked you after the bills were made out whether you 
 went over the bills with anybody ? .4. I don't recollect that. 
 
 Q. Did the Superintendent of the State House, or anybody 
 at the State House, return the slips to you ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Any of them ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he make a statement and return that to you ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Are you sure about that ? A. I am positive about that. 
 
 Q, Did Mr. Ford make a statement of weights or quantities ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you give instructions to the bookkeper to make up the 
 bills? A. Always at the end of the month the bookkeeper made 
 up the bills ; I told him I wanted the State House bills. 
 
 Q. Well, they were not made up exactly at the end of the 
 month, Major Hurley; they were made up on the 9th of the 
 month, and the 13th of the month, and the 4th of the month, 
 and the 24th of the month. How did he know when to make it 
 up — you told him ? A. 1 always told him ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What instructions did you tell him ? ^. I had no instruc- 
 tions to give him — none at all, sir. 
 
 Q. Told him to make up the bill ? A. Make up the bill. 
 
 Q. Did you give him any instructions as to the prices? A. 
 He knew the prices ; whatever the current price was to the 
 public, to other institutions, there was the price regulated on 
 the schedule of the Coal Exchange for State institations, and the 
 State House and all State institutions come under the one head, 
 and it was changed from time to time. 
 
 Q. Did anybody else come under the same head ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Who else ? A. Heaters and cracker-bakers. 
 
250 MICHAEL HURLEY. 
 
 Q. You had certain customers who came under this head of 
 gross prices? A. A dollar above circular. 
 
 Q. A dollar above the circular price? A. Yes, sir; a dollar a 
 ton. 
 
 Q. That was the delivered price. You had a bookkeeper Dy 
 the name of Fritz, didn't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When did he leave your employ? A. I guess 1891, some- 
 time. 
 
 Q. He kept all your books while he was with you ? A. He 
 kept the coal books. 
 
 Q. How long had he been your bookkeeper ? A. Well, I 
 suppose four or five years; I am not sure of that now — three or 
 four. 
 
 Q. Has he been in your employ since ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you get him back to help make out the bills or to 
 balance up his accounts afterwards? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have him — haven't you had your books gone over 
 by anybody ? A. By counsel. 
 
 Q. Anybody besides counsel? A. Bookkeeper I have now. 
 
 Q. Anybody else ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Mr. Fritz hasn't been over them since he left you ? A. 
 Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Have you had any bookkeeper go over them ? A. No, sir; 
 not outside of my ofl&ce. 
 
 Q. Your own bookkeeper has been over them with your coun- 
 sel ; when was that? A. Well, my counsel hasn't been over the 
 books ; he looked over some items ; I have talked with him in 
 the matter and took counsel. 
 
 Q. When did your present bookkeeper go over them for you ? 
 A. I can't tell you; I don't know. 
 
 ^. About how long ago? A. I can't tell you. 
 
 Q. When did you direct him to go over them ? A. I didn't 
 direct him at all. 
 
 Q. Why do you say he went over them ? A. Comparing items 
 and different things ; it is his business to go over the books and 
 keep them straight. 
 
 Q. Well, did he straighten up some entries? A. I don't know 
 that he straightened anything ; I don't think there was anything 
 to straighten ; not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. You don't think there was ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Think a minute ; are you qaite clear that nobody has gone 
 over these books except your bookkeeper and your counsel ? A. 
 Not to my knowledge ; no, sir, I don't know anything about that. 
 
MICHAEL HURLEY. 251 
 
 Q. Have you gone over them yourself? A. No, sir, I cau't go 
 over them. 
 
 Q. Have you had any expert examine them? A. ISTo, sir, I say 
 no ; I had a man four or five years ago that I called in to examine 
 them when the bookkeepers changed. 
 
 Q. That is the time one bookkeeper went and the other came? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who was that? A. Mr. J. D. Ruh. 
 
 Q. Did he find them all right 2 A. 1 guess he did. 
 
 Q. He didn't report them wrong ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he report that he found them all rignt? A. I don't 
 remember now what his report was. 
 
 Q. He didn't report anything against the former book-keeper, 
 did he ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You had him examine them to see if they were all right ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he examine your cash books 1 A. I don't know ; he 
 went over all the books we had. 
 
 Q. How would you find out the condition of your cash if you 
 wanted to find it out to-day? A. I don't know; I have a way 
 of doing this business; I have the utmost confidence in those 
 men around me; I have nobody but myself; I am the boss my- 
 self, and I control it all. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say you haven't any book that shows the 
 condition of your business, the condition of your cash ? A. You 
 have got all the books that we have here in your possession. 
 
 Q. Did you know that your boy D'Arcy had destroyed your 
 cash books here a year or two ago ? A. Yes, the cash books are 
 not worth a cent ; they are books, memorandum books, that are 
 kept, and when they are three or four years old we do not make 
 any account of them. 
 
 Q. They were the best you had ? A. We don't make any 
 account of them, the accounts are on the ledgers. 
 
 Q. They are such books as we see here ? A. If accounts are 
 closed we consider them closed. When I have a contract or any- 
 thing and it is settled, it is done. 
 
 Q. Did you know that your boy had destroyed those books ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you hear that here for the first time before the Com- 
 mittee ? A. I think I did ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't know that he had destroyed them ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you blow him up for it ? A. No, sir ; I didn't, 
 because I didn't consider them of any account. 
 
252 MICHAEL HURLEY. 
 
 Q. You didn't think your cash books are of any account after 
 they are two or three years old, do you ? A. These were three 
 or four years old. 
 
 Q. No ; they come up until 1892, they are only two or three 
 years old. They are destroyed, are they? A. Destroyed; yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever give him any instructions to destroy the 
 books? A. No, sir. 
 
 §. Destroyed the weight books? A. No, sir; the weight 
 books do not amount to anything. 
 
 §. They don't if they are destroyed, but they show the weight 
 of the old coal. A. It would be a good thing for me if I had 
 those books; they have all been receipted for by some employe 
 of the State House. 
 
 Q. When your bills to the State House were made up what 
 were they made up from 1 A. \ don't know anything about that. 
 
 Q. Then you don't know whether they were made up from the 
 books or not? A. I know the bills were made out and handed 
 to me and I come up here with them. 
 
 Q. When you told the boy to make out the bill, he made it 
 out, and you didn't see him, and you don't know whether it was 
 taken from the books or not? A. No; I don't know anything 
 about that. 
 
 Q. Was there anything else that he might have made it up 
 from besides the books? A. Nothing but the records of the 
 office. 
 
 Q. Well, what were the records of the office besides these 
 books ? A. There was a memorandum book, as you call it, that 
 stub book, and sometimes they had a sheet of paper and was 
 copying weights on there, and then they carried it from that, I 
 suppose, to the day book or order book. 
 
 Q. That sheet of paper was one of the things that played a part 
 in making up these bills against the State? A. I don't know 
 anything about that; the State bills were made up the same as 
 any other bills ; our bills are all made straight. 
 
 §. Are they ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. We will see about that; now, Mr. Hurley, why did you 
 make bills to the State for larger amounts of coal than your 
 books showed ? ^. I don't know of any such bill being made. 
 
 <2. Why did you add to the quantities in making up your 
 bills ? J.. I never knew anything about that. 
 
 Q. You mean to say you didn't know it? A. \ do. 
 
 §. Did you add a fixed percentage? A. No, sir. 
 
 i}. Did you add a lump sum ? A. No, sir. 
 
MICHAEL HURLEY. 253 
 
 ^. What did you add ? A. Added nothing. 
 Q. How did you get at it when you added the weights to the 
 coal ? A. That was not my part of the work. 
 
 Q. "Whose part was it ? A. There wasn't anything added ; we 
 don't add anything in our business ; there was nothing ot that 
 kind done, not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Was it done for political uses? A. No, sir. 
 Q. For what use was it? A. Anything that was done was 
 done legitimate and straight; there was nothing added at all to 
 my knowledge. 
 
 Q. What were these weights of many thousand pounds of 
 coal added to your bills for? A. I don't know anything about 
 that; I don't know that there were ever any added. 
 
 Q. Was something added to every bill? A. Not to my 
 knowledge. 
 
 Q. Was something added to part of the bills ? A. Nothing at 
 all that I know of. 
 
 Q. What was the rule by which you got at to know how much 
 to add? A. We didn't add. 
 
 Q. Who suggested that you add something to the weights of 
 the bills ? A. There has been no suggestion, no adding. 
 
 Q. Did you give any direction to the bookkeeper to add some- 
 thing to the weights? A. No, sir, nothing — to add anything. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The witness understands the 
 effect of the answers ? 
 
 The Witness — I understand thoroughly. 
 Q. I am not asking these questions idly. Major. Did Mr. Ford 
 suggest that you add something to the bills? A. Mr. Ford never 
 suggested anything. 
 
 Q. Did anybody about the State House suggest it? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Then why was it done? A. It was not done, to my 
 knowledge. 
 
 Q. Who got the benefit of the raise in the bills? A. I got 
 all the money and deposited it myself. I had the checks, and 
 deposited it the same as I do in any other transaction. 
 
 Q. You got all the money that these bills represent? A. Yes. 
 Q. Well, after you got it all did you give some of it to Ford ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did not? A. No, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is another witness present whom 
 I will examine and whom I would prefer to have retire 
 from the room during the remainder of this cross-ex- 
 amination, and that is Mr. Daniel McCarty. 
 
254 MICHAEL HURLEY. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Mr. Daniel McCarty will retire 
 from the room. 
 
 Q. Did any one else get part of this money afterwards? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. After your bills were paid did you make presents to some- 
 body? A. I did not, sir. 
 
 Q. JSTot in money? A. What do you mean; just tell me what 
 you want me to answer ; no, sir ; I never made any presents out 
 of any coal money. 
 
 Q. Well, after the State paid your coal bills, didn't you make 
 some presents to people connected with the State government ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you get some money to them through a little indi- 
 rect source? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you not put in your bills greater amounts of coal than 
 you delivered ? A. Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Were you not paid for more coal than you delivered? A. 
 Not to my knowledge, sir. 
 
 Q. Were not items put in your bill which did not appear at all 
 in your books? A. Not to my knowledge, sir. 
 
 Q. Were not items put in your bills for coal which was never 
 delivered ? J.. I don't know anything about that. 
 
 Q. Were not items in your bills erased? A. Not to my 
 knowledge. 
 
 Q, Were not entries in your books altered after the coal had 
 been delivered? A. Not to my knowledge, sir. 
 
 Q. Were not false entries of coal made in your books? A. 
 Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Were not false entries put in the bills? A. Not to my 
 knowledge. 
 
 Q. Well, now, "not to your knowledge, " what is your idea 
 about it? A. 1 don't think there was. 
 
 Q. Don't you think you might have heard of it ? I don't know 
 anything about it. 
 
 Q. Did you ever hear anything of the sort ' A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. It is all news to you, is it? A. It is news to me. 
 
 Q. You got paid for all the items that are in your bills ? 
 
 A. I got paid — for every bill there is there I have got the 
 money for it. 
 
 Q. Haven't the books been altered since you were paid for the 
 coal? A. Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Have they not been recently altered? A. I don't know 
 anything about that. 
 
MICHAEL HURLEY. 255 
 
 Q. Well, now, Major, you ought to know about that; have 
 your books not been recently altered ? A. Not to my knowledge, 
 sir ; I don't know that they were. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did you instruct anybody else 
 to alter them ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Or instruct anybody else to in- 
 struct some other person to alter them ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where have yoar books been lately ? A. Right in my 
 office until you got them here ; you have had them here pretty 
 near a week. 
 
 Q. Yes, I have ; they have been gone over, haven't they, since 
 the first of January? A. I can't tell you anything about that; I 
 am not a bookkeeper. 
 
 Q. Who has had access to them ; have they been gone over 
 since the 1st of January? A. I don't know anything about it; 
 I don't know that they were. 
 
 Q, Who has changed these books; have you? A. I don't 
 know anybody has changed them at all. 
 
 Q. Hasn't Fritz helped do it? A. I don't know that he did. 
 
 Q. When was the last time you had him do some work on the 
 books for you ? A. 1 don't remember. 
 
 Q. Well, within a year ? A. Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. (Jiy Chairman Voorhees) — What does the witness mean, 
 " not to my knowledge " ? Doesn't he know whether those 
 books were gone over within a year 1 A. 1 couldn't tell whether 
 they were or not. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Why can't you tell ? A. Be- 
 cause 1 don't know. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Do you know whether they were 
 gone over at all ^ A. 1 don't know whether they were or not. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Herbert) — Do you know anything about your 
 business? A. No, sir ; I know that I do business. 
 
 Q. When the summons in this matter was served on you, you 
 said, "I am ready for you" ; what did you mean by that? A. 
 Well, I don't know ; I said that, of course. 
 
 Q. You had been getting ready, hadn't you ? A. No, sir ; I 
 had nothing to get ready for. 
 
 (^. What did you mean by it ? A. 1 am always ready for any- 
 thing. 
 
 Q. Hadn't yon been gettmg ready by having the books gone 
 over 1 A. 1 have nothing to do with the books myself. 
 
 Q. Not yourself, but by Fritz ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Or by D'Arcy ? A. No, sir; D'Arcy is the bookkeeper. 
 
 (J. Or somebody else ? A. Nobody else; no, sir. 
 
256 JOHN A. FRITZ. 
 
 John A. Feitz sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you live ? A. Trenton. 
 
 A. How old are you ? A. Twenty-six. 
 
 Q. How long have you lived in Trenton ? A. All my life. 
 
 Q. Are you a married man ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were you a bookkeeper for Michael Hurley ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. During what period ? A. Part of 1889 to October, 1891. 
 
 Q. What books did you keep ? A. Coal books. 
 
 Q. Ledgers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (J. Cash book ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Order books ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Weight books? A. I never kept a weight book. 
 
 Q. Well, receipt book, by which coal was delivered ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did you weigh the coal? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You were there until D'Arcy come, weren't you? A. 
 D'Arcy was there when I was there. 
 
 Q. But he succeeded you as book-keeper? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 0. Were you the sole book-keeper while you were there ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at this ledger ISTo. 4 and tell me if that ledger is in 
 your handwriting down to the date, October, 1891 ? A. I think 
 it is. 
 
 Q. Any doubt about it ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Refer to the State House account on page 55 and tell me 
 if you kept that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. On page 56, did you keep that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Page 60? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And 61 ? A. No, sir — part of it. 
 
 Q. Down to the time in October, 1891, when you left, you 
 kept it, did you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Just show me which date is the last one entered by you ? 
 A. May 19th. 
 
 Q. The next entry, October 6th, you didn't make? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What day in October did you leave ? J.. I think it was 
 on — I don't remember exactly, but I think it was around the 
 first. 
 
 Q. Refer to the order book No. 9, beginning with page 17, 
 which is of the date, September 7th, 1889. Is this order book 
 in your handwriting from that page on ? A. Beginning there, 
 yea, sir. 
 
 Q. Look ou page after page right on after 17 and see it is all 
 in your handwriting. A. Most of it is. 
 
JOHN A. FRITZ. 257 
 
 Q. Is there any that i8 not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where ? A. There is one — there are several entries you 
 will find all through the book that were taken when I was not at 
 the office. 
 
 Q. That is an exceptional thing, however, is it not? A. Yes, 
 air, 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The thirty-five coal bills referred to by 
 the witness, Michael Hurley, are oflered in evidence to 
 be marked from " Exhibit 144 to 178 " inclusive, and 
 will be marked in the order of their several dates. 
 
 Q. Look at " Exhibit 144," being voucher of September, 1889 ; 
 is that bill made out by you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And at "Exhibit 145," being the bill of January let, 1890; 
 is that made out by you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And " Exhibit 146," being the bill of March .31st, 1890; 
 speak as to that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And " Exhibit 147," being the bill of May i9th, 1890 ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And " Exhibit 148," bill of November 7th, 1890? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And " Exhibit 149," bill of December 22d, 1890 ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And " Exhibit 150," the bill of January 20th, 1891 ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And " Exhibit 151," bill of February 24th, 1891? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And " Exhibit 152," bill of April 6th, 1891 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And " Exhibit 153," the bill of May 25th, 1891 ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Look at book No. 10, and tell me how much of that is in 
 your handwriting — down at the bottom of the page. A. On 
 page 112? 
 
 Q. Which carries it down to about September 28th, 1891, does 
 it not ? ^. I think it does. 
 
 Q. Yon kept it down to the time of your leaving Mr. Hurley? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who told you to make out these bills ? A. Nobody, really. 
 
 Q. How did you know when to make one out ? A. Well, we 
 generally made them out from, I think, around the first of each 
 month. 
 
 Q. What did you make them out from? A. From the stubs 
 of the receipts. 
 
 Q. From the stubs of the receipts ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 17 SH 
 
258 JOHN A. FEITZ. 
 
 Q. And whea yoa made out the bill about the first of the 
 month it was for the coal delivered the previous month, was it? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where are the stubs of the receipts? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. Well, what did the stubs of the receipts contain ? A. The 
 weight of each load that was sent here to the State House. 
 
 Q. Look at these stubs that I show you here that Mr. Hurley 
 has produced. Is that the same stub you refer to ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, in making out your bill you had to put in something 
 besides the weight, didn't you? A. IS'o, sir. 
 
 Q. Did not? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, as a matter of fact, your bills have got prices in 
 them? A. Well, I put in prices on the bill, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You mean to say you made out those bills without referring 
 to your books at all? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When did you post your ledger ? Every two or three days. 
 
 Q. ISTow, let us take just one of them. Now, look at the State 
 House account, page 55 on ledger 4 ; this first bill I show you is 
 made out September, 1889; at the time that bill was made out, 
 September 18, 1889, these September entries were already in your 
 book, weren't they ? A. 1 am not positive about that. 
 
 Q. Well, take the next one. Your next page was January 1, 
 1890 ; the items were already in your ledger, weren't they ? A. 
 I won't be positive of that. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Why are you not sure ? A. Well, I 
 would sometimes make out the bills from the stubs, but not 
 always. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — How often did you enter them in 
 your ledger ? A. I hadn't any stated time. 
 
 Q. But every two or three days ? A. Grenerally every two or 
 three days. 
 
 Q. Well, when you posted them in your ledger where did you 
 post them from? A. I generally put the amount first in the 
 sales book or order book, and posted them from that. 
 
 Q. Prom that into this ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How often did you post from this sales book into your 
 ledger? A. I said every two or three days. 
 
 Q. At the end of the month you would make out your bills? 
 A. Generally; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When you posted into the ledger you had to put down the 
 date and amount and folio from your sales book and then extend 
 that proper amount, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. These stubs didn't show any extension, did they? A. 
 What do vou mean ? 
 
JOHN A. FRITZ. 259 
 
 Q. They didn't show the amount that coal would come to? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You understand what Mr. Cor- 
 bin means by the word " extension " ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You mean to say you made out the bills to the State from 
 these little books and calculated the amount without ever look- 
 ing at your ledger ? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. You didn't even refer to your ledger? A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. But cast it all up new and and figured out each load? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do that for? A. I hadn't any particular 
 reason. 
 
 Q. You did double work, did you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. After you got your bill made out did you look to see if it 
 agreed with your ledger ? A. I^ot always. 
 
 Q. Did you ever? A. I don't remember whether I did or not. 
 
 (^. And you mean to tell us that you made out these long bills, 
 some of them with a page or two from these little items, and 
 figured each one up item by item, when you had it all ready on 
 your ledger ? J.. I didn't have it always on my ledger. 
 
 Q. Zou said you posted up the ledger every two or three 
 days. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your bills were made out once a month ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You made out the bills, and didn't look to see whether 
 your ledger was right or not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. That is true ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was your ledger true when you entered your entries there ? 
 A. As far as I know it was. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. Where did these entries on the ledger come from ? A. 
 From the sales book. 
 
 Q. Where did your entries on the sales book come from ? A. 
 From the stubs receipts. 
 
 Q. You entered them daily? A. No, sir; I didn't say daily. 
 
 Q. These little ones, when did you enter these? A. On my 
 sales book ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. Whenever I had time. 
 
 Q. Every day or two? A. Well, I hadn't any specified time. 
 
 Q. You must have done it as often as every two or three days, 
 for you say you posted them into that — A. Every two or three 
 days. 
 
 Q. Did it every night, didn't you? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What were you doing all day? A. Nothing particular. 
 
260 JOHN A. FRITZ. 
 
 Examined by Mk. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Weren't catching mice, were you ? A. That was not my 
 busiQesB. 
 
 Q. Now, Mr. Fritz, I want you to reflect a little bit on that, 
 for I am directly going to show you your entries. These little 
 books were carried in the drivers' pockets, and they were not in 
 very long? A. They were turned in after every load that was 
 delivered. 
 
 Q. Several times a day ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then you put another load on? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. At night they were turned in, were they, in the office — 
 every night, weren't they ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And from these you posted these dates and weights into 
 this sales feook? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then, in the sales book, opposite the item, you entered the 
 price, didn't you? A. Generally; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then these books went out and were used the next 
 day again? A. Yea, sir. 
 
 Q. That was your custom of doing your business ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. A half a dozen drivers with these in their pockets ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that continued from day to day and from week to 
 week? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you took this sales book and posted those in your 
 ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Giving the dates and weights and page of this book, and 
 total price ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And this is your only ledger in which you posted it ? J. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that you did every two or three days, or every day, as 
 the case might be ^ A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And as you had time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. ]S"ow, at the end of the month, you came to make up the 
 bill ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And do you tell me that in making up your bills and send- 
 ing them out to your customers you didn't open your ledgers? 
 A. I didn't say to our customers. 
 
 Q. Well, perhaps there is a distinction there. A. I refer to 
 the State House accounts. 
 
 Q. You refer to the State House? A. Yes, sir; when I said 
 I posted those bills from those stubs, I was referring to the State 
 House accounts. 
 
JOHN A. FKITZ. 261 
 
 Chairman Voorheee — We are glad to know it was 
 this account alone. 
 
 Q. In other cases if you were sending a bill — let us look at the 
 next customer on the book, The Delaware River Ice Company, 
 would you refer to their account on the ledger to make a bill to 
 send them? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Or the " True American " office ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You would refer to your ledger ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Or to Barlow & Marsh, you would refer to your ledger, 
 wouldn't you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Or to any other individual customer? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, do you tell me that in the biggest account you had 
 on those books, with the State, that you made out bills to the 
 State without ever looking at your ledger 2 A. 1 do. 
 
 Q. And that was your habit? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was your reason for that? A. So that I would have 
 the weights correct, because they were receipted at the State 
 House — the exact amount. 
 
 Q. Well, how about your ledger; didn't you want your ledger 
 correct? A. I did ; yes, sir.- 
 
 Q. But you didn't even take your bills and check them back 
 with your ledger? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. When you sent bills to the State House, in which you took 
 this extraordinary precaution to go back to the weights, you did 
 not refer to your salesbook or ledger when sending the bills? 
 A. No, sir, because it was not always in them. 
 
 Q. Do you expect us to believe such a story as that? A. I 
 don't know whether you believe it or not; I am telling you what 
 is so. 
 
 Q. And you kept that ledger closed and didn't look at it to 
 see whether your bill was right by the ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you do that; did you want to be ignorant of 
 what the ledger showed ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. If your bill went out on January 1st, on December 31st, 
 the night before, you might have made entries in that ledger of 
 coal? A. 1 may have done so. 
 
 Q. Yet you took these little books and kept this hidden, and 
 went over the whole thing again? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skikm. 
 
 Q. Were those books always in the office so that you could 
 get at them easily and make out your bills ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The drivers didn't have them out? A. Not when I 
 wanted it. 
 
262 JOHN A. FEITZ. 
 
 Q. Even when the drivers were out; you had more than one 
 driver? A. Yes, sir, we had several; those books would be 
 handed to us ; one would come in and then another. 
 
 Q. Then you always knew the book you wanted, to make out 
 State bills? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Examined by Mr Corbin. 
 
 §. State bills are in all the books? A. Not all of them. 
 
 Q. Every driver drove coal there, didn't he? A. Most all of 
 
 them. 
 
 Q. When you made your entries from these little books into 
 the sales book, did you enter them correctly? A. I think I did. 
 
 Q. When you entered them from the sales book to the ledger, 
 did you enter them correctly? A. I think so. 
 
 Q. Took the same care that you took with other people's 
 accounts? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. ~^o more care ? A. No more care. 
 
 Q. Just the same? A. Just the same. 
 
 Q. When you came to make the bill, at the end of the month, 
 you went over all that again ; did double work, did you, and yet 
 never compared it with your former extensions? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What was the object in your doing 
 that? J.. In doing which? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — In the course which you say you pur- 
 sued? A. I hadn't any special object in it any more than to be 
 correct. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Why should you take these books 
 rather than the ledger account? A. Very often, in posting up 
 from those stubs, I would put in two or three days at a time ; I 
 would put it in in a lump ; put in the lump weight in the ledger ; 
 but in sending the bills I would always put the daily weight in. 
 
 Q. Do you want me to leave that right there ; do you want to 
 leave that as your statement here ? A. That is my statement 
 here. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Do you want us to believe that? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (l- Don't you want to make any more explanation about that? 
 A. Is there any more explanation to make ? 
 
 (^. lam afraid on the footings it will come out. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Did you make any other account that 
 way — makeup your accounts from those little stubs; did you 
 ever make up any accounts that way, excepting the State ac- 
 count ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
JOHN A. FEITZ. 263 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Whose were they ? A. "Well, I gen- 
 erally made up the statement with the Trenton Cracker Com- 
 pany's account that way, or in any accounts that we sent the coal 
 by the load, and not by the exact ton. 
 
 Q. What was your object in keeping a ledger it you were never 
 going to refer to it again ? 4. I didn't keep the ledger for that 
 purpose ; I kept the ledger to refer to it. 
 
 Q. But you didn't refer to it you say? A. ITot in all cases, in 
 making out bills. 
 
 Q. But you say in making out the State bills you habitually 
 did not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When the money came in did you never refer back to see 
 whether it was right? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you find ? A. Well, I generally found it right. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. You never made any errors, then, in copying from your 
 books the number of entries — 20 or 30 a month — you never found 
 any errors when you posted your ledger at the close of the 
 month ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. 'So omissions ? A. Yes, sir, I often found errors. 
 
 Q. That is, in the State account ? A. In the State account 
 and every account. 
 
 Q. Then wouldn't it have been well to have taken the ledger 
 rather than simply the small books, when you found errors ? A. 
 Well, when I found errors I would turn to the small books and 
 compare them with my ledger. 
 
 Q. And then correct your ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So as to make your ledger and your cash balance? A. 
 No, sir, to make the account right. 
 
 Q. You don't understand me; I mean to say that if you would 
 find any errors after making it up in this manner, and then 
 when you got the check from the State you would always balance 
 your ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Always balance ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Always correct ? A. I think so. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Why did you not copy the entries into your ledger cor- 
 rectly ? A. Well, I always intended to. 
 
 Q. Do you think you could have made a mistake of as much 
 as 30,000 pounds in one item without discovering it? A. 1 
 might have done so at the time. 
 
264 JOHN A. FKITZ. 
 
 Q. Do you think you could make three such errors^ 
 amounting to 90,000 pounds, in one bill, without seeing it? A. 
 Do you mean difference in the bill ? 
 
 Q. Between the bill and the charge in the ledger. A. It i& 
 possible, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you raise the figures in your ledger ? A. Raise 
 them? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. Where have I raised them, any more than to 
 make the account right where I made an error ? 
 
 Q. Why did you put false items in your bills which were not 
 in your books at all ? J.. I never did such a thing. 
 
 Q. Where did you get those items from ? A. Which items do 
 you refer to ? 
 
 Q. The false items in your bills. A. I said I didn't put any 
 false items in my bills. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Hurley tell you what amounts to put in your bills ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you make the false extensions in figuring up 
 what the price of coal was ? J.. I never did so. 
 
 Q. Did Major Hurley tell you how much to raise your bills ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he tell you how much to raise your books ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. How much did you raise them ? ^. I never raised them. 
 
 Q. What percentage of raise did you make t A. 1 never 
 raised them at all. 
 
 Q. When you were raising a bill, did you add a fixed percent- 
 age or a lump sum ? ^. I never raised them. 
 
 Q. Did you raise all the bills or only part of the bills? A. I 
 never raised any of the bills ? 
 
 Q. Why did you erase the footings in your ledger and change 
 them to other footings ? A. I suppose because there must have 
 been an error there. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did you know that those bills 
 had been raised? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Have they been raised? ^i. Not to 
 my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Why did you carry out false footings at the bottom of your 
 pages? A. I don't know as I ever did. 
 
 Q. Who got the money represented by this raise in these bills ? 
 A. There was never any bills raised, 
 
 Q. When did you last see these books? A. I don't remember 
 exactly. 
 
 Q. About when ? A. About three years ago. 
 
JOHN A. FRITZ. 265 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You mean to say you have made no 
 entries in them since ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Haven't gone over them since ? .4. I looked over one book ? 
 . When? A. A short time ago. 
 
 Q. How long ago ? A. Last Sunday. 
 
 Q. Which book was that ? A. The ledger. 
 
 Q. No. 4? A. I think it was No. 4. 
 
 Q. Who was with you ? A. Mr. D'Arcy. 
 
 Q. Who else ? A. Nobody. 
 
 Q. Did you take any memorandum of what you saw in the 
 books? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you make any entries in the books? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What account did you look over? A. The State House 
 account. 
 
 Q. Why did you look over the State House account ? A. Mr. 
 Hurley wanted to know if the books were correct during my 
 time there. 
 
 Q. Did you go over them carefully ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you find them correct 1 A. 1 think they are. 
 
 Q. You didn't see anything there to excite any suspicion, any 
 incorrectness? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Were they just as you had left them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And whatever we find there in them is in your handwriting 
 is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You had better take a look at page 55, and make sure of 
 that? A. It all appears to be in my handwriting. 
 
 Q. Then turn on to the next page, which is page 56, is that 
 yours? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Footings and all ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then turn over to page 60 and 61 ; are those yours, that is, 
 down to the date that you have mentioned, of May, 1891? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When you went over these last Sunday did you make any 
 corrections in them ? No, sir. 
 
 A. Change some figures? No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you look at the order books ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you go over those and check off the items which were 
 entered here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you find them correct 1 A. I think I did. 
 
 Q. And did you make some changes in the order book too ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did D'Arcy ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did anybody else ? A. No, sir ; not that I know of. 
 
266 JOHN A. FEITZ. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman) — Did you indicate where changes were to 
 be made ? A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman)— Did D'Arcy ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you take any pencil memoranda? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did D'Arcy ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Then these books are in the same condition which you left 
 them in 1891? A. Yes, sir; as far as I can see, they are. 
 
 Q. When did the erasures which appear there — the changed 
 footings? A. During my time with Mr. Hurley. 
 
 Q. I suppose you observed that all those footings are erased, 
 didn't you, that I showed you just now? A. I didn't take 
 particular notice to them. 
 
 Q. It was done then ? A. It there was any; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How often did you balance your cash? A. I don't know 
 as we ever balanced it, really. 
 
 Q. Did you have any book that showed how much cash you 
 ought to have on hand ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And couldn't you tell except by counting it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where were you taught bookkeeping ? A. Business 
 college. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman) — In justice to the business college I will ask 
 you, is that the way they taught you to keep books ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Why, then, did you keep your books so that you couldn't 
 tell how much cash you had on hand? A. I continued keeping 
 them in that way simply because they were kept in that way 
 before I came, and I was instructed to do so. 
 
 Q. Daring these two or three years you were bookkeeper, 
 what would be the method of finding out how much cash you 
 had on hand ? A. Only by counting, and the balance in the 
 bank ; that is the only way. 
 
 Q. You had no method of finding out how much you ought 
 to have on hand ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Then the disappearance of a five-dollar bill, or a ten, or a 
 fifty, could not be checked up by any book you had? A. Not 
 by any book ; no. 
 
 Q. Nor any way unless you knew how much you had the night 
 before and counted it in the morning ? A. We generally kept a 
 slip in the cash box. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What did you have on that slip, the 
 cash entries of the day ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What became of it at night? A. Gen- 
 erally destroyed. 
 
 Q. Not carried anywhere? A. No; the balance was carried 
 over to a new slip the following day. 
 
JOHN A. FEITZ. 267 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You carried on those slips ? A. Yes. 
 
 Q. Did you keep one cash book or two cash books while you 
 were bookkeeper ? A. One. 
 
 Q. You had the debit on one side and credit on the other? A. 
 Had the debit. 
 
 Q. Where was the credit ? A. Didn't keep any. 
 
 Q. Didn't keep any credit cash ? A. Only on those slips. 
 
 Q. How could you tell what you paid out? A. By those slips 
 and by receipted bills. 
 
 Q. When you paid out five or ten dollars for a bill that was 
 presented, didn't you enter it in any book ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. There was no record, even at that time, to show where 
 your money went to? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What was the object of secreting those facts 'i A. \ don't 
 believe there was any. 
 
 §. And if your employer had asked you at the end of the 
 month where the cash had gone to, you wouldn't have been able 
 to tell him, except from memory ? A. Show him by the receipted 
 bills. 
 
 Q. Suppose some had gone out for which no receipted bill was 
 given ? A. We got a receipt for everything that was paid. 
 
 Q. When the employer himself took cash out of the drawer, 
 did you get a receipt from him? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did your ledger account at that time have a cash account in 
 it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman) — Do I understand that you advertise your- 
 self as a public accountant? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This is a public account we are at, you 
 know. 
 
 Chairman Yoorhees — Yes, 1 see. 
 
 Q. Mr. Fritz, do you desire to give any information as to how 
 these bills came to be put in here for false amounts and raised 
 amounts, and to be entirely discordant with these books? A. I 
 don't know that there are any false amounts in them. 
 
 Q. You have nothing to volunteer on the subject? A. I say 
 that I don't know that there are any false amounts. 
 
 Q. You only have to look at the first three items to see that ; 
 but you mean to say you know nothing about them ? A. I don't 
 know if there is any false amount. 
 
 §. And that when these checks came back from the State and 
 you entered them upon the ledger, you did not discover that 
 they did not agree with the bills you had sent ? A. Not always. 
 
 Q. Well ; why is it, Mr. Fritz, that all these checks in your 
 time that are returned by the State and are entered on your 
 
268 ' JOHN A. FRITZ. 
 
 ledger have been erased aad other figures put down ; why did 
 you do it? A. 1 am sure I don't know, unless au error on my 
 part. 
 
 Q. Did you make a blunder every time the State sent you a 
 check 1 A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. Don't you know that within the last three weeks you have 
 changed those figures? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. I think the rest of us will know it before we get through. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman) — Fritz, you kuow the law you are testifying 
 under, do you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do you mean to tell the Committee, 
 Mr. Fritz, that you kept no cash book, whatever? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — To tell where your money came from, 
 or where it went to; now do you mean for this Committee to be- 
 lieve that 1 A. 1 mean to say that all the cash was received. 
 
 Q. What did you do with it? A. There is an account for 
 the— 
 
 Q. What did you do with it? A. It is in the cash book, all 
 cash received. 
 
 Q. That is the question I asked you — what became of it? 
 A. That is the debit cash. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then what became of it? A. Gen- 
 erally deposited. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You mean to say you never balanced 
 your cash to know whether it balanced or not? A. No, sir; I 
 did not. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman) — Did you ever suggest to Major Hurley the 
 necessity of doing that ? J.. I am sure I don't know. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman) — Wouldn't you, as an expert accountant, 
 suggest the propriety of so doing? A. I may have done so; I 
 don't bring it to my knowledge just at present. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman) — Why wouldn't you do it for your own 
 protection? A. I may have done so; I don't remember. 
 
 Q. Well, if you did so he didn't follow the suggestion, did he? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Does he know anything about books at all? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. He has stated here he knew absolutely nothing about 
 them. A. He doesn't. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then you simply kept these accounts 
 from Mr. Hurley saying he didn't know anything about their 
 accuracy, and you kept them in this manner so no man could 
 trace your account or kaow whether your cash would agree ? 
 A. They were kept in that way ; yes, sir. 
 
WILLIAM d'arcy. 269 
 
 Q. What possible reason could you have for that? A. I 
 simply followed the system that was laid down before me. 
 
 Q. Can't you see the position that puts you in as a bookkeeper 
 and custodian of the cash ? A. Yes, it put me in a very peculiar 
 position. 
 
 Q. Miyor Hurley knew nothing about books ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who instructed you to go on in that way ? A. I asked 
 Mr. Hurley, and he said go on and keep them as they had been 
 before. 
 
 Q. He left it all to you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't even make a suggestion as to when you were to 
 make out a bill ? A. He may have done so. 
 
 Q. But you made out the bills yourself your own way. A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 William D'Arcy, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You became bookkeeper, I think you said, in October, 
 1891, for Mr. Hurley ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I want to show you bills made out to the State after that 
 date. I show you " Exhibit 154," bill of December Ist, 1891. 
 Is that in your handwriting? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Also " Exhibit 155," bill of January 2d, 1892 ; is that in 
 yours? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 156," bill of February 1st, 1892; is that yours? 
 A. That is mine; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 157," March 1st, 1892; is that yours? A. That 
 is mine; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 158," April 1st, 1892; did you write that? A. I 
 wrote that ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 159," May 2d, 1892; is that yours? A. That is 
 mine; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 160," June Ist, 1892; is that yours? A. That is 
 mine; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 161," October 4th, 1892 ; is that yours ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 162," October 31st, 1892? A. That is mine; 
 yes, sir. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 163," December 1st, 1892? A. That is mine. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 164," January 2d, 1893? A. That is mine. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 165," January 31st, 1893? A. Yes, sir; that is 
 mine. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 166," February 27th, 1893 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 167," April 1st, 1893? A. Yes, sir. 
 
270 WILLIAM d'aecy. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 168," May 8 th, 1893 ? A. Yea, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 169," July 25th, 1893? J. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 170," bill without date, approved ISTovember 3d, 
 1893 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 171," December 1st, 1893? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 172," December 28th, 1893? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 173," January 29th, 1894? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 174," February 26th, 1894? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 175," March 26th, 1894, is that yours? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. "Exhibit 176," April 3d, 1894? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 177," May 24th, 1894? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. " Exhibit 178," August 1st, 1892, this is out of order ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "When you made out your bill, what did you make it from ? 
 A. From the ledger. 
 
 Q. Made up from the ledger? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Copied your ledger ? A. Copied the ledger ; yes, sir; and 
 also verified my accounts from the stubs which we had from the 
 receipts which we had got back from the State House, from the 
 employees who signed them. 
 
 Q. Who told you when to make up the bill to the State ? A 
 I knew that the bills should be made up monthly ; it didn't need 
 any telling. 
 
 Q. Answer the question ; who told you? A. I always make 
 up bills on the first of every month. 
 
 Q. Did anybody tell you ? A. JSTo, sir. 
 
 Q. You copied them from the ledger and you also referred to 
 the stub book? A. I verified the account before I delivered the 
 bill to Mr. Hurley, to see that it was correct as to the amount 
 which we had receipts for. 
 
 Q. Then you delivered the bill to Mr. Hurley? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And who would bring it up to the State House to get the 
 cash? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How often did you post from these little receipt books into 
 your sales book? A. Probably once a week. 
 
 Q. Not every night ? A. Oh, I thought you meant from the 
 sales book to the ledger every day. 
 
 Q. Every night you posted those up? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. So that your sales books were complete every night? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. These order books, how often did you post from these order 
 books into the ledger ? A. About once a week. 
 
WILLIAM d'aRCY. 271 
 
 Q. These little receipt books contained the name of the cus- 
 tomer, the date and the quantity, did they not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you transferred the name of the customer, the date 
 and the quantity to the order book? A. We didn't use those 
 books with private customers. 
 
 q. Well, the State ? A. Oh, yes. 
 
 Q. Tou didn't these with private customers ? A. No, sir, that 
 is an individual account. 
 
 Q. The Trenton Cracker Company ? A. What I mean was 
 by a ton at a time ; we didn't send them out by the ton. 
 
 Q. Here is one ton egg — most of them are that way ; but when 
 you took those little books in hand to post up the State's account 
 you would transfer the date, the name of the account and the 
 quantity to the sales book, would you njot ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that you did every night ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And checked them off in here as done ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, as a matter of fact, didn't you every night simply 
 enter in these order books the name of the State ? A. Yes. 
 
 Q. And the date under its proper date and leave the quantity 
 to be filled in afterwards ? A. Never in my life since I was with 
 him in 1891. 
 
 Q. I will submit that to the Committee and they will see that 
 most of them are done afterwards, and not room enough left for 
 them in most cases. Never in your life put them in afterwards? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Let me refer you to one and let us see if you can give any 
 explanation ; I want to be fair with you, young man ; well, I will 
 show you three or four. Look at order book 11, page 203, in 
 the middle of the page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. 15,240 pounds ; do you mean to tell me that was not filled 
 in afterwards? A. Filled in on that same evening, yes, sir, after 
 the coal had been delivered. 
 
 Q. And the item was written in first and then you did fill it in 
 afterwards ? A. The name of the State and the broken coal was 
 always entered that way, to be filled in when we knew the number 
 of loads would be delivered on that day. 
 
 Q. Then you modify your answer? A. I couldn't enter in the 
 name of the State the amount of coal delivered without knowing 
 how many loads we delivered on that day. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you do it with other people? A. Other people 
 we sold a specific quantity to, a quarter of a tou, a half ton or a 
 ton. 
 
 Q. Normal School that day, 9,750 pounds ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That seems to be all straight ? A. Isn't that straight ? 
 
272 WILLIAM d'arcy. 
 
 Q. No, that is entered crooked ? A. Simply because we had 
 the number of pounds there to compare. 
 
 Q. Then you modify your former answer ; you did put in a 
 number of pounds ? A. After we knew the number of pounds 
 we had delivered. 
 
 Q. The entry was not made all at the same time? A. No; the 
 name of the State House appeared first. 
 
 Q. Did it sometimes go over till the next morning before you 
 knew what figures to fill in there? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Always that night? A. Always that night. 
 
 Q. And you always posted these before you went to bed ? A. 
 Btforc I left the office. 
 
 Q. Every night ? A. Pretty much ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Never failed ? A. 1 may have failed if I was busy. 
 
 Q. But you entered that State House account every day there, 
 leaving the blank, and at night, when you found out, you would 
 put in the figures? A. Put in the number of pounds we had 
 delivered that day. 
 
 Q. Those little books from which you totaled up the days' 
 amounts are now eaten by the mice, and burned? A. You have 
 quite a number of them. 
 
 Q. Yes, in 1894 and 1895. A. It has been stated here that 
 those receipts which were stated here could not be found — now, 
 then, Mr. Sprechlen has showed us a string of them that long 
 [indicating] in the cellar, if the Committee wishes to find them. 
 
 Q. They would be pleased to see them. A. Yes, sir ; they 
 are down in the cellar, in his desk. 
 
 Q. We have got about thirty, in July, 1893? A. I can get 
 them. 
 
 Q. When we get through with you ? A. Now. 
 
 y. When we get through with you you can get them ? 
 
 Senator Voorhees — The Committee will give you a 
 vote of thanks. 
 
 A. I don't say they are all there. 
 
 Q. You will get as great a quantity as you can. Did some of 
 the slips come back to you from the State House? A. Some of 
 them ; some of the leaves from this book. 
 
 Q. Did some of the slips come back to you from the State 
 House? A. No, sir; they were not supposed to come back. 
 
 Q. Did they in fact come back ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You are quite sure about that? ^. I am quite sure; 
 they tear them off down here and receipt on the stub. 
 
 Q. When the eventful day came when you had to make up the 
 
WILLIAM d'aECY. 278 
 
 bill to the State, what did you have before you to make it out 
 from ? A. Had our ledger. 
 
 Q. Didn't you have some slips that came down from the State 
 House? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And a sheet with some figures on ? A. No, sir, I never 
 saw such a sheet. 
 
 Q. What directions did Major Hurley give you as to making 
 up these bills? A. The only directions was to keep the account 
 as strict as I knew how and render him the bill. 
 
 Q. How often did he give you orders to keep them straight ? 
 A. Always to keep them straight. 
 
 Q. About how often did he speak of and say you must keep 
 them straight? A. 1 can't recall how many times. 
 
 Q. That was a common saying of his, was it? A. No, sir; it 
 was not a common saying, but he has warned me to be sure to 
 keep the books right. 
 
 Q. Did you try to do so? A. Yes, sir, to the best of my 
 knowledge. 
 
 Q. You didn't see any statement, then, that came down from 
 the State House as to how much should be added to these bills ? 
 A. Positively, no; there never came a statement back. 
 
 Q. Since you have been with Major Hurley have the books 
 been examined ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who examined them ? A. Mr. Ruh examined them. 
 
 Q. When was that? A. I think in 1891 or 1892. 
 
 Q. It was after you came there, was it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is he an expert bookkeeper? A. I think so, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he report them all right ? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. He examined your part or the part that went before you ? 
 A. The part previous. 
 
 Q. Not yours? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't find anything to excite remark in them ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did he comment on the fact that you had no cash book ? 
 A. He may have ; I don't remember. 
 
 Q. But his work there did not lead you to keep any cash book 
 which you could balance at all ? A, No, sir. 
 
 Q. You didn't change in any respect? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where do you go now when you want to find out how 
 much cash ought to be on hand ? A. We know how much we 
 have in the bank and how much we have on hand. 
 
 Q. That is all the same as you told us this morning? A, Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 18 SH 
 
274 WILLIAM d'arcy. 
 
 Q. Nothing more than that; anybody else examine these 
 books? A. Not since I have assumed charge. 
 
 Q. Anybody look them over with you? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Recently, no one looked them over with you ? A. 1 have 
 looked them over myself, to see whether my accounts were — 
 
 Q. Anybody with you, looking them over? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Haven't looked at them with anybody at all? A. Oh, I 
 don't recall ; I may have looked over them with Mr. Hurley. 
 
 Q. But nobody other than Mr. Hurley? A. I don't recall; I 
 may have. 
 
 Q. Don't you think you would recall it if you had been going 
 over these books; have you looked at the State House account 
 with anybody lately? A. The State House account particularly? 
 
 Q. Yes; or generally? A. Yes, sir; I have looked over them. 
 
 Q. Who did you look it over with ? A. Mr. Fritz. 
 
 Q. When was that? A. Oh, not a great while ago. 
 
 y. About how long? A. It might have been a week. 
 
 Q. Look over your part of it or his part of it? A. Overall 
 our parts. 
 
 Q. Did you find it all right? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Make any changes in it ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he? A. Didn't need any changes. 
 
 Q. These changes bad been made before, had they? A. What 
 changes ? 
 
 Q. Didn't you know there were changes in the ledger ? A. No — 
 yes, I have made changes myself when I would find an error. 
 
 Q. When did you make them? A. Before entering a bill. 
 
 Q. But you didn't find anything there that you thought needed 
 correction ? A. No ; lately, no, sir. 
 
 Q. He didn't? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. He didn't make any entries? A. When? 
 
 Q. At the time you saw the books with him ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Anybody? A. Nobody. 
 
 Q. And did you make any memoranda? A. No, sir; didn't 
 need any memoranda. 
 
 Q. Did you go over the order books as well as the ledger ? A. 
 No, I don't think we referred to the order book. 
 
 Q. Didn't check it up with the order book'? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What was your object in going over it? A. To see 
 whether our statements woald conform to the facts of the case. 
 
 Q. Well, what facts of the case ? A. Well, we simply wanted 
 to verify our accounts to see whether the accounts had been 
 posted right and paid right. 
 
WILLIAM d'arcy. 275 
 
 Q. Posted from what; what did you have to look at? A. 
 From our order books. 
 
 Q. But you say you didu't refer to the order books and check 
 them up? A. Oh, well, we simply wanted to know whether our 
 ledgers had been properly kept. 
 
 Q. Well, did you find that they had? A. We thought they 
 were, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you cast up any figures to see if they appeared to be 
 right? A. Yes, sir; we have run up some columns. 
 Q. They seemed to be right, did they ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Has Fritz ever helped you with the books except on that 
 occasion? A. That is all. 
 
 Q. Quite sure he didn't take a pen and make some changes in 
 them ? A. 'So, sir. 
 
 ^. Kor you didn't? A. I didn't; no, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think we will have to let these books 
 speak for th^^mselves. 
 
 Begin at the beginning; the first coal bill I will hand 
 up to the Committee is the bill of September, 1889. It 
 is made out in this way, 111 tons, 830 pounds broken 
 coal at $5.10, $568.25. There are no items on it. That 
 was paid by the State. By referring to Ledger 4, page 
 55, you will find the items which make up this quantity. 
 There are so many errors in this bill that I will have to 
 call attention to them one by one. If you will total up 
 the pounds in that ledger you will find that they are 
 229,962, which is a little less than 102J tons, instead of 
 111 tons 130 pounds. That is the first raise. The next 
 point I make with regard to this bill is that the exten- 
 sion is false. You will see it is extended — the first item, 
 $61.19, and you will find that the true extension is 
 $57.68, entered in the ledger $61.19 over an erasure; 
 you will find an erasure in the order book, as well. But, 
 even as it now stands, it is falsely extended. The next 
 item is the 10th of September, 26,690 pounds in the 
 ledger. This item is extended in the ledger $64.43; 
 the true extension is $60.79 ; the figures are 
 erased both in the order book and in the ledger. The 
 next item presents a different sort of treatment. In the 
 ledger you will see weight 68,635 ; if you will refer to 
 the order book you will find it 52,740, it having been 
 raised 15,895 pounds. That is extended $165.70, and 
 the true extension is $120. 6. ISTow, if you will take 
 the next item, 12,970 pounds, it is extended $31,31, and 
 
276 COAL FURXISlItD STATE HOUSE. 
 
 the true exteusioii is $29.58. The next item is 44,640 
 pounds, extended at $113.83, whereas the true exten- 
 sion is $101.64. The next is. September 16th, 23,710 
 pounds, extended at $60.46, and the true extension is 
 $54.06. The next item, 27,972 pounds, is simply a false 
 entry — nothing in the order book to correspond with it 
 at all — on page 20. If you will add all these you will 
 find that the true extension — that is, even supposing 
 these weights are correct as entered in the ledger, 
 although they are all raised — the true extension of this 
 whole bill is $424.11, and they got $568.25, a difference 
 of $144.14, or about 33 per cent. 
 
 Senator Daly — I want a minute made here that Major 
 Anderson was Comptroller and John J. Tofiey was the 
 Treasurer during this time. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The next bill is January 1st, 1890, made 
 out, you will observe, by tons ; six tons in the bill to the 
 State. By reference to the order book you will find it 
 has been changed from five tons (page 25, in the order 
 book) to six, and six tons in the ledger. It is extended 
 $32.40 ; the true extension is $25.50. The $82.40 is over 
 an erasure in the ledger. The next six items are $5.40 
 in each bill. They have all been raised from $5.10 each 
 in the ledger. The item of January 12th is extended 
 at $43.20 and the true extension is $40.80, over an 
 erasure. The next item, 13th of January extended in 
 the bill $32.40, the true extension is $30.60. The next, 
 the 16th, is charged in the bill at $21.60, and the true 
 extension is $20.30 — page 57 in the order book. The 
 next one is extended in the bill at $10.80, and the true 
 extension is $10.20 ; that is charged in the order book 
 also, page 58. That is a small change. Those small 
 changes seem to be mere changes of the price, but the 
 ledger does not agree with the bill. The next item, on 
 the 19th, is $8 paid for four loads of manure ; it doesn't 
 appear in the books at all. The item on page 62, of the 
 order book has been raised from 9,814 pounds to 14,196 
 pounds, over an erasure. 
 
 Senator Daly — Do you find any bill lower to the State 
 than charged on the books. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, that accident doesn't appear to hav« 
 happened. 
 
 The total of this bill, taking these altered figures as 
 correct (which I submit are rather untrustworthy), is 
 
COAL FURNISHED STATR HOUSE. 277 
 
 $662.76, as against $689.91 paid by the State. Even 
 admitting tiiat the quantity was as much as they say it 
 is, the bill has been raised. 
 
 I submit the bill of ISTovember 7th, 1890, for $280.82. 
 The first three items in that bill seem to show how 
 utterly discordant the books and the bills are. Observe 
 a little item — the second item on that bill. The bill to 
 the State is $5.65, and $5.50 on the ledger. I might 
 say there are hundreds of instances ot that sort where 
 the items are a little bit raised. The item of September 
 15th is worthy of notice. It is raised in the ledger 
 and order book from 2,590 pounds to 25,140 pounds. 
 The bill calls for 25,140 pounds. You will find items 
 in many of these bills which are not in the books at 
 all — false items; some of them 30,000 pounds at a clip, 
 and a good matiy of them. I would like to have the 
 Committee look at this with a glass ; I submit that these 
 books have been recently tampered with — the ink is yet 
 green on some of them, and the red ink is entirely 
 different from that used before. You will find in many 
 of these bills that there are items which do not appear 
 at all on the books ; for example, they amount in one 
 bill to 90,000 pounds of coal; refer to the bill and the 
 book, and the book immediately reveals it, for they have 
 been altered to cover them up. There has been made, 
 and I submit to the Committee, recently made, a lump 
 increase on the books, like this one, for instance, that 
 was billed to the State, and paid by the State, at 25,000 
 pounds ; the item was 2,590 pounds, and that has been 
 raised to 25,000 pounds, and you will find that that 
 covers up a false entry a little further on, where they 
 tried to force the books. Bat there is something else 
 interesting about that item ; the true extension of that 
 is $6.14; you will find it extended in that ledger at 
 $56.14, and that is not right for the raised quantity; the 
 true extension is $55.57. 
 
 That is all I have discovered in that bill except, pos- 
 sibly, some false extensions; $50 has been added to that 
 bill. The bill of January 20th, 1891, affords a good 
 illustration; look at the item of January 5th, 26,000 
 pounds of coal charged to the State; it isn't in the 
 books; you will look for it in vain. There is $56.92 
 that is not in the books at all. On the 8th of the same 
 month an item of 18,800 pounds, $41.96 ; that is not in 
 
278 COAL FURNISHED STATE HOUSE. 
 
 iany of the books. You will observe that if it had not 
 been changed, a comparison of the bill with the books 
 would immediately reveal the discrepancy. Now look 
 down to the next item, the 9th, and you will see an 
 alteration which I submit has been recently made, where 
 an entry has been of 8,470 pounds and it has been raised 
 to 46,410. That raise is exactly the same number of 
 pounds which in the other two bills are wanting. The 
 item was $511.75, and it has been raised to $611.75. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — That change has been made here 
 lately. Look at the ink; it is almost green. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If you will look at it with a glass you 
 will see it without any doubt about it. 
 
 Senator Voorheee — This was approved by John J. 
 Tofley, State Treasurer. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — You will find that the alteration of 
 which I speak of 46,000 pounds appears not only in the 
 ledger but in the order book, page 222 of order book 
 No. 9. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — And that I submit has been made 
 within a week. Look at the ink. 
 
 Senator Daly — It looks so ; very much so. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— Just $100 added to that bill. 
 
 I next draw your attention to the bill of February 
 24th, 1891, $504.93; the entry of February 2d, 15,920 
 pounds; that will not be found in any of the books; it 
 is simply a false entry on the bill. 
 
 Senator Voorheee — Can they urge the excuse that the 
 stubs may have been lost? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No ; I am going to demonstrate the 
 falsity of that by this bill. 
 
 That, you will observe, is footed and carried on to 
 February 9th, and you will find another entry of 18,970 
 pounds; that is not on the other books; that is a false 
 entry. Now, it you go back to February 4th you will 
 find a false entry of 2,850 pounds raised to 38,100 pounds.- 
 They couldn't tell on the 4th how much they were going 
 to steal on the 9th. This bookkeeper doesn't attempt 
 to explain these entries. It is very clear you couldn't 
 make an entry of au overcharge on the 4th and explain 
 all that is going to happen all the rest of the month. 
 
 The Chairman — Can anybody doubt that that has 
 been made within u week or ten days, or three weeks at 
 the most ? 
 
COAL FURNISHED STATE HOUSE. 279 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If I was a juror I wouldu't be out long. 
 
 The Chairman — The ink has not had time to get 
 black and set ; it is green yet. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These changes all seem to be oi very 
 recent date ; they are scarcely set on the paper, some of 
 them. 
 
 That bill is certainly raised $78.82 and possibly more. 
 
 I call attention to some small facts, but which point 
 out the falsification of these books. Take the last three 
 or four items on the bill : February 13th, item of $76.30 ; 
 it is entered on the ledger $76.33. There is another, 
 $43.70, entered $43.72. The next one, $32.22, entered 
 $32.23, and so they go all the way through. You will 
 find them from two cents to twenty-five cents out of 
 order, which indicates to my mind that the ledger was 
 an after thought, and the bills could not have been made 
 up from that ledger; the footings do not agree; the 
 items don't agree; the extensions do not agree. The 
 extensions on the correct bills are correct because they 
 are all verified here at the State House. 
 
 Senator Daly — How much would the difierence in 
 these bills be; have you added it up? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir ; some of thein are so blind that 
 it is impossible to do it ; some of them have been 
 tampered with so that you couldn't tell ; there the first 
 one is 33 per cent., and another is 31 per cent. 
 
 Senator Daly — Do they occur from 1889 right down ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It occurs very nearly down to the time 
 the new bookkeeper, D'Arey, came, and he adopted 
 another method. 
 
 The Chairman — I wish we had the mice. 
 
 Senator Daly — Between the period from 1889 to 1891, 
 you will find this condition of affairs ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This condition of affairs I am now com- 
 menting on continues throughout Mr. Fritz's time. 
 When D'Arey came, things changed ; it is different. I 
 will show you some of his methods, but they are very 
 well concealed. 
 
 Senator Skirm — His methods are entirely different to 
 accomplish the same result. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think the result was the same. 
 
 Senator Daly — Did you find any changes in D'Arcy's ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir; I will show them to you. I 
 call attention, now, to the bill of April 6th, 1891. 
 
280 COAL FURNISHED STATE HOUSE. 
 
 This is for §569.90 ; the first item on that bill is 
 for 8 cords of wood, $64. If you will search the books 
 through you will find only a cord and a half of wood 
 ever delivered. It is on the order book ; you will find 
 a cord and a half delivered, which would be $12; that 
 is all there is in the order book; the date is January 3d, 
 1891 ; it ought to have been in a previous bill. This 
 bill is perhaps the best sample of the methods pursued 
 by Fritz of any one we have got. You will see in the 
 bill on the 10th of March there is a charge of 21,640 
 pounds. That is a false entry ; there is no such thing 
 in the books. Now the next item is the 12th ; you will 
 find an item on the bill of 8,200 pounds ; that has been 
 raised to 38,200 ; if you will look at the ledger and order 
 book you will see that they have both been raised — page 
 
 30, of the order book. The next item, the 13th, on page 
 
 31, of the order book, 2,830 pounds, raised to 32,830. 
 The Chairman — A figure 3 put right slap bang in 
 
 front of the 2,830. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now those two raises in the books were 
 to cover up the missing item above and some missing 
 items which I will show you below, later in the month. 
 Refer to the 16th in the bill, and you will see an item of 
 21,810 pounds. That is a false charge; there is nothing 
 of the sort in the books ; refer to the 24th and you will 
 see 17,960 pounds on the bill; that is a false entry; 
 there is nothing in the books like it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The young man stated that he made 
 these bills up from the little books, and it might have 
 been there. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The thing is too obvious for any debate 
 at all. A mere inspection of the books shows it beyond 
 any possible cavil. This bill should have been, sup- 
 posing these prices are right, $432.71; it has been 
 raised to $569.90 ; that is a raise of about 32 per cent., 
 as near as I can figure it. I think that is intended to 
 be 33, possibly. 
 
 Bill of March 25th, 1891, $134.-30 ; this is a small one, 
 but it has a bigger raise than any of them. The first 
 entry in that is 2,840 pounds. That apparently is a 
 duplicate entry paid for in the previous bill and entered 
 here again. It will appear in order book 10, page 49. 
 The next item on this bill April 8th, of 9,800 pounds 
 coal, is false ; there is nothing of the sort in the books. 
 
COAL FURNISHED STATE HOUSE. 281 
 
 The item of the 13th, 7,600 pounds, is false, not in the 
 books. April 15th, 6,420 pounds, is also false entry on 
 the bills ; it isn't in the books. I will show you how 
 they were disposed of below. Now there are three 
 items that are false. In the last item of the bill but 
 one, the item of 2,900 pounds charged to the State has 
 been raised in the order book and in the ledger to 
 26,700 pounds ; that is exactly the amount of the four 
 charges above. That bill is $81.13, and has been raised 
 to 1134.30, or at the rate of 65 per cent, over what it 
 originally was. That all seems to be recent ; it is a 
 difierent ink from what the other was. The footings of 
 these are not correct ; the extensions and footings are 
 false in every instance. 
 
 The bill of December Ist, 1891, for $826.25. This is 
 the first of Mr. D'Arcy's regime, and you will observe 
 the method changes at once. You will see that the 
 coal is all billed to the State in tons — equal tons. On 
 the 6th of October, for instance, three tons. If you 
 will turn to page 116 of the order book, or to the 
 ledger, page 61, you will find that the amount of coal 
 delivered that day was 5,190 pounds, which was pretty 
 short weight for three long tons. 'Now, look at the 
 extension opposite these three tons and you will see 
 $15; look in the ledger and you will see $12.97. The 
 extensions are all false, the bills false. The next item 
 is one ton at $5; in the ledger it is 2,640 pounds; he 
 delivered more than he charged that day ; it is extended 
 in the ledger $6.60. The next day two tons, $10 ; 
 charged in the ledger $6.53. Those extensions are all 
 correct, the number of pounds delivered being 2,610; 
 they are falsely transferred; the quantities are raised. 
 The total bill to the State was 165j tons; the amount 
 actually delivered, as per ledger, was 145 tons and a 
 fraction. The bill has been raised 19.35 tons, and in 
 value $96.75, or about 12 per cent., and the odd pennies 
 probably would make it up about an even hundred dol- 
 lars. I believe every item on that sheet is falsely copied 
 from the ledger. 
 
 The Chairman — Didn't D'Arcy testify that he made 
 up the State House bill from the stubs? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Fritz testified t ) that. D'Arcy testified 
 that he copied that from the ledgor, and this is the first 
 one that he copied. 
 
282 COAL FURNISHED STATE HOUSE. 
 
 The Chairman — And there isn't a single item correct 
 in it? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I believe every item on that sheet is 
 falsely copied from the ledger wherever he entered it as 
 the number of tons delivered. 
 
 Mr. D'Arcy testified that the ledger is in his handwrit- 
 ing, and he testified that the bill was in his handwriting, 
 and it obviously is ; he testified that he copied that bill 
 from the ledger, and there isn't a single line of it that 
 is truly copied, either in quantity or amount. 
 
 The Chairman — I hope Mr. D'Arcy will bear that in 
 mind. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Possibly somebody else will before 
 the end of May. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The next bill is the bill of January 2, 
 1892. I call the attention of the Committee to a false 
 entry of December 8th, 1891 ; sales book 10, page 164, 
 5,945 pounds, |14.88, which is falsely entered. Ledger 
 folio 61, December 8, 1891, 8,160 pounds, that you will 
 see by referring to the order book should be 5,945 
 pounds. ISTow, I would like to have the members of 
 this Committee who understand bookkeeping, take a 
 look at thaf ledger. You will see there on the credit 
 side in red ink |74.51, "over charge," to the State; it 
 is just balanced off' and the State has never been given 
 credit for the overcharge. There is the overcharge of 
 |74.ol, and yet they go on for a period here of three 
 years and never pay or credit it to the State. It is sim- 
 ply charged oft by a forced entry. Isn't that pretty 
 obvious. Senator Skirm? 
 
 Senator Skirm — I think it is. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I won't stop to call your attention to 
 these bills ; it applies to every bill right straight through 
 to the end of Mr. D'Arcy's work ; the amounts in practi- 
 cally every instance in the sales book from this time on 
 are obviously filled in afterwards in the order book, and 
 in a diflferent ink ; they are not entered at the same 
 time. I will call attention to a few instances, so that 
 the Committee will see whether I am right. Look at 
 order book 11, page 203, with a glass, and you will see 
 the ink is altogether different; there is another; look 
 at 212. 
 
 The Chairman — Can that not have happened as he 
 suggested ? 
 
COAL rUJBNISHtD STATE HOUSE. 283 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes; it is made afterwards. This 
 practice with the State's account is entirely unique in 
 the books; there is nothing like it in any other 
 accounts; the weights are missing. It strikes me as a 
 very suspicious circumstance that the weights should be 
 left blank for somebody else to till in at some after time. 
 Look at page 212 and page 214 ; there is another in- 
 stance of it, and page 217, there you will pee. 
 
 I direct the attention of the Committee to an exami- 
 nation of these weight slips which we did find. The 
 testimony of two witnesses the other day showed clearly 
 that the loads sent here by Major Hurley's teams aver- 
 aged anywhere from 2,500 to 2,800 pounds, probably 
 about 2,700 pounds. These charges in D'Arcy's time 
 average for a large number of loads 3,164 pounds. We 
 have found in the ctllar a few slips for the month of 
 July, 1893, but there was very little coal being delivered 
 then, and they run like those here, the loads averaging, 
 I think, 2,590 pounds up to 2,900, or something like 
 that, and possibly one or two as high as 3,000 ; the tes- 
 timony of the witneeses the other day who were asked 
 about that, the engineer and also I thiuk the book- 
 keeper said that the loads ran 2,800, but if these entries 
 are correct, all the loads must have averaged 3,164 
 pounds — page 220. Page 227 will show you an item 
 that has been altered ; 228 is another change, from 8,515 
 to 23,215: that may be significant or may not; 230 is 
 another. I submit that on page 66 in the ledger and 
 225 in the order book there is a palpable increase of 
 quantity of 11,000 pounds. 
 
 In the bill to the State it is 28,765 pounds, and on the 
 books 11,000 pounds less. The first item of that bill is 
 charged at 17,305, and charged to the State in the bill 
 at 28,765. Refer to the 2lBt day of that month and you 
 will find in the order book and ledger the item 17,470 
 pounds ; you will find they agree. They are raised on 
 the bill to 20,380. It is simply raised ; the bill is false. 
 Look at that large item at the bottom, 24; an item on 
 the ledger, 99,830 pounds, billed to the State at 102,710. 
 Page 260, order book; page 85, ledger. These three 
 alterations make a difference in the bill of $990.03, as 
 against $1,031.20 paid by the State. 
 
 Prom this time on to the end of Mr. Hurley's deliv- 
 eries, in 1894, these bills all show the same circum- 
 
284 COAL FURNISHED STATE HOUSE. 
 
 stance in the order book; they have all been filled in 
 afterwards; how long afterwards, of course, I don't 
 know ; I haven't been able to trace it any further than 
 this. 
 
 The Chairman — May I ask if there is any significance 
 in the fact that the ledger that follows No. 4 is No. 6 ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Well, I have asked Mr. D'Arcy about 
 that, and he says that the one between No. 5 is a small 
 personal ledger for some individual account ; it has not 
 been produced. The absence of the cash books of 
 course is a Very embarrassing circumstance, and the 
 weight books as well. I have noted a number of facts, 
 to which I will draw attention ; first, a number of foot- 
 ings are false. Refer to ledger No. 4. All the footings 
 in that ledger, I believe, are erased and written over. I 
 think that is true with the balaoces carried forward as 
 well, in every instance. I mean in the State account. 
 Now, to show you how the books could not be made to 
 agree, look at page 64, the footing, $794.77 ; that 
 column foots up $794.43. It is a small amount, but a 
 bookkeeper understands that the error is just as 
 important as it is to have it dollars out. 
 
 Folio 65, debit side, footed ^1,729.88; that foots 
 $1,729.35. Folio 159 is footed |1,248.75 ; it should foot 
 $1,249.89. On page 400 you will see a balance is forced 
 on the book — an entry of an overcharge, $2.89, made 
 simply to force the balance ; the ledger wouldn't balance 
 without it. I observe that these overcharges are not 
 credited to the State on subsequent bills. Page 592, on 
 the debit side of the ledger the footing is §1,952.52 ; it 
 should be $1,951.52; marked, $1.83 overcharge to bal- 
 ance. Folio 120, the debit side is footed up §3,542.45, 
 $4 out; it should be $3,538.35. Page 122, marked over- 
 charge $51.17, to force a balance. August 15th, credit 
 $13, cash book shows $25.50. 
 
 My theory about that ledger is that those credits to 
 the State were originally put in as they were in Heath's 
 books, false amounts to balance the entries which are 
 on the debit side. When these forced false entries were 
 recently put in there, they were put in to raise the debit 
 side up to balance the checks which were actually 
 received from the State, as every amount can be read 
 in the State reports in the printed book. You will see, 
 now, the checks from the State have been raised in 
 
wiLTJAM d'aecy. 285 
 
 every instaiice to the proper amounts, all being written 
 over erasures ; that is the way these books were changed, 
 aiid here is an instance where they forgot to do it, this 
 that I have just called your attention to; they had 
 credited $13 to the State, which was part of what they 
 got; the actual entry ought to be |25.50, and they have 
 forgotten to change that one and make it conform. It 
 is needless to take up more time, but I could show you 
 by going over that ledger account, page 55, and pages 
 succeeding, that the extensions are false, that the com- 
 putations are false, that the quantities are false, even as 
 attempted to be forced and corrected now ; the thing is 
 a tissue of shams and there is no reliance to be placed 
 upon it. It is altered, falsified, forced and is incorrect 
 even on its face. 
 
 William D'Arcy, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You have heard the matters to which I have called the 
 Committee's attention? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 ^. In view of them do you want to make any statement to the 
 Committee? A. Yes, sir, I do; the first bill that I had charge of 
 there — 
 
 Q. (By the Chairman) — That is where you entered even tons 
 instead of pounds as appears in the ledger? A. Yes, sir. Now 
 then that coal was delivered in bulk ; we figured up the number 
 of actual pounds delivered, and I had it charged in that vpay in 
 bulk. 
 
 Q. Charged where ? A. Charged on the ledger in bulk. 
 
 Q. Kefer to the ledger and show us where ? A. Page 612, on 
 the ledger. I charged that in bulk as it was delivered, and Mr. 
 Hurley afterwards thought it would look better if the bill was 
 made out by tons, so I made out the bill as near accurate as I could 
 and you will find that amount charged, that is, the price will 
 compare with it. 
 
 §. These figures here in the debit column, price will compare 
 with what? A. With that. 
 
 Q. (By the Chairman) — The sum total of the charges by 
 pounds 1 A. I. know, it was delivered in bulk, understand ; Mr. 
 Hurley afterwards thought it would look better if it was divided 
 into tons; the number of pounds will bear out this bill, the 
 number of pounds charged. 
 
 (^. It is 33J per cent, false ? A. How so ? 
 
286 wiLMAM d'arcy. 
 
 Q. Figure up the pounds and see if you can make them come 
 out. You have charged the State 111 tons 830 pounds in that 
 bill, including an item of 27,972 pounds in your ledger which is 
 not in your order boolc, and your ledger, even as falsified, 
 amounts to only 229,962 pounds; the bill would be 249,000 
 pounds, and your ledger, even with the false entry which is not 
 in the order book, is only 229,000 pounds. Assuming that is the 
 proper entry, there is still 20,000 false? (No answer). 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I understand this gentleman says that 
 that bill Major Hurley determined to have charged in tons ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then why is that bill of all the others 
 in tons instead of the weight; is that bill yours ? A. 'So, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — January, 1892, were you there at that 
 time ■? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — How is it that that bill is all in tons 
 and not in weight, if Major Hurley directed you the other way ? 
 A. That was only for that one bill, I suppose he wanted to see 
 the number of tons ; that was only the one bill that was charged 
 in tons. 
 
 Q. "Well, in making that up you went to your ledger, didn't 
 you? A. This bill? 
 
 Q. In making that bill up in tons ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why doesn't it agree with the ledger ? A. Simply as I 
 explained it ; I charged it in bulk as we delivered it and after- 
 wards divided it into tons. 
 
 Q. You can divide correctly into tons, can't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But you are 20 tons out on that '{ 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— Take the next bill, October, 1891. 
 ISTow on the first entry here, October 1, 3 tons of coal ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. What is it there (indicating on ledger). A. 5,190. 
 
 Q. And the next date? A. 2,640 pounds. 
 
 Q. How do you explain the difference between 5,190 and three 
 tons ? A. The difference in the gross number of tons delivered 
 for those two months would figure as near as we could come to 
 it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You said in your previous testimony 
 that you made your bills as a copy of the ledger ; now, there isn't 
 one item there, as the examination shows, that agrees with your 
 ledger ? A. No, because they are not charged in tons ; they are 
 charged in bulk. 
 
 Q. October 6, you charged on your ledger 5,190 pounds? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
WILLIAM b'aecy. 287 
 
 Q. But your bill to the State was for three tons ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. October 7, you charged on your ledger 2,640 pounds? A, 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Bill to the State one ton ? A. (No answer). 
 
 Q. October 9, charged 2,610 pounds, and bill to the State two 
 tons. A. Two tons more. 
 
 Q. Against that 2,620 pounds you billed two tons to the State ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. If you go through that whole page you will observe it is all 
 the same thing — no one of the items agreeing with the others, 
 and the total not agreeing; how do you explain it? A. (No 
 answer.) 
 
 Q. You say Mr. Hurley told you to fix this up in tons? A. 
 In ton lots; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he call off the number of tons you put down ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Where did you get those tons from? A. That is as near 
 as I could come to it from the ledger. 
 
 Q. In other words, when you came to 2,640 pounds you 
 charged that up as one ton? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And when you came to 2,620 pounds, which was 20 pounds 
 less, you charged that up as two tons ; is that as near as you can 
 come to it? A. How is the total number of tons ? 
 
 Q. You are 20 tons too much on the bill. A. Count in the 
 Dixon bill, too. 
 
 Q. There is your bill; take the footings on the ledger and 
 total it all up, and you are 20 tons and over too much ; who gave 
 you those figures to put down on that bill ? A. Nobody. 
 
 Q. Don't you see that you have it too high? A. No, I didn't. 
 
 Q. The bill was |826.25 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is now entered on your ledger over an erasure? A. 
 No, sir, there has been no erasure. 
 
 Q. There has not? A. Oh, no, on December 4th; no, there 
 hasn't. 
 
 Q. Well, of course, that is a matter of opinion. Perhaps we 
 will have to take the Committee's opinion on that. Now, can't 
 you give us any explanation of why you raised that bill 20 tons? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you total up the number of pounds and divide 
 that by 2,240 and see how many it made ? A. That was what I 
 thought I had done. 
 
 Q. You see you haven't done it. Now let rae show you 
 another one. Here is a bill of February 27th, 1893. Now look 
 at this paper; that is your writing, isn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
288 WILLIAM d'abcy. 
 
 Q. Do you see that item of February 21st on your bill; it is 
 20,380 pounds, isn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And on your ledger it is 17,470 pounds. Why did you 
 make that raise; why did you raise that 3,000 pounds? A. It 
 may be that I discovered an error. 
 
 Q. Where is that error; your ledger is all plain and clean, 
 isn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And yet you have transferred that item and added 3,010 
 pouuds to it; why did you do it? A. Doesn't the total number 
 of pounds — 
 
 Q. No, no, but that one item ; take that ; you have sworn here 
 that you made up these bills from the ledger and that you cor- 
 rectly kept that ledger. Why did you raise that 3,110 pounds ? 
 A. What is charged on the order book ? 
 
 Q. The same thing exactly. Can't you answer that; who told 
 you to raise it ? A. Nobody told me to raise it. 
 
 Q. Did you do it of your own accord ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Why did you do it? A. \ can't explain it now. 
 
 §. Well, now, that is not the only instance ; I will show you 
 others that you have done it with. Why did you raise these 
 bills ? A. We sometimes closed an account on the day ; that is 
 when we thought the orders had got so far advanced that we 
 couldn't send any more down in the afternoon ; we would close 
 the account and maybe open it again in the afternoon to send 
 another load down if they telephoned for it. 
 
 Q. Well, this bill wasn't sent until February 27th, and that 
 was a week before, and your ledger is all clean and clear and 
 your order book is the same, but on the 27th, a week afterwards, 
 you add 3,010 pounds to that item ; who told you to do that ? 
 A. Nobody. 
 
 Q. Did you get the benefit of that yourself? A. No, sir. 
 
 §. Who did get the benefit of it? A. That coal must have 
 been delivered ; otherwise it would not have been charged. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — How is it that you, when you made 
 out your bill, didn't make this according to your ledger? A. I 
 used to verify it from the receipts of the drivers who delivered 
 the coal. 
 
 Q. On that same bill, look at the last item but one which is 
 down to the State at $102,710 pounds ; look at your ledger, same 
 date, February 24— what is it there? A. 99,830. 
 
 Q. Why is that raised about 3,000 pounds there ; both your 
 writing? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. And perfectly clean ; no erasures in there, are there ? A. 
 No erasures. 
 
WILLIAM d'arcy. 289 
 
 Q. Why did you falsely transfer that to the bill at 3,000 pounds 
 advance; I think you had better tell us? A. 1 haven't any 
 explanation to give ; I have explained that it may have been an 
 error. 
 
 Q. An error in what ? A. It may have been an error in my 
 account that I corrected from the receipts which we had from 
 the drivers who brought the receipts back. 
 
 Q. Well, when the check came back from the State, you would 
 discover the error, wouldn't you, if it was an error? A. (IS'o 
 answer.) 
 
 Q. Well, take another item on the same bill. The first item 
 on the bill is 28,765 pounds. Now refer to your ledger. What 
 is the item there ? A. 17,305 pounds. 
 
 Q. Why did you raise that item over 11,000 pounds? A. Did 
 I have two charges of that on that day ? 
 
 Q. No, you have just simply advanced it eleven thousand and 
 odd pounds. Who told you to do these things D'Arcy? A. No- 
 body told me. 
 
 Q. Then why did you do them. The order book is all clean. 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. If you had discovered there was a cart load or two left out 
 the next morning you would put it on the order book, wouldn't 
 you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It isn't on the order book. Now Mr. D'Arcy, hadn't you 
 better give us another explanation of that? A. No, sir; I haven't 
 any other explanation. 
 
 Q. You want to leave it rest right there, do you ? A. For the 
 present, yes, sir ; I would rather go over those figures. 
 
 Q. Would you like to go over and come here again next week. 
 A. 1 would rather finish it up to-day. 
 
 Q. You see the position this leaves you in before this Com- 
 mittee, don't you? A. I charged it the best I could. 
 
 Q. You see these false transfers in these bills to the State — 
 A. There is not, sir. 
 
 Q. There are three instances of it, amounting to 16,000 or 
 17,000 pounds, in one single bill, the first item, the last item and 
 one about the middle of the bill, all raised; now, do you want to 
 make an explanation of why you did it and how it came about, 
 here to the Committee now? A. I have no explanation to 
 make ; it is a clerical error, that is all. 
 
 A. All these raisings of bills you claim are clerical errors? 
 A. It is all my fault in not charging it. 
 
 Q. Did you never discover these until now ? A. No, sir. 
 
 19 SH 
 
290 JOHN A. FRITZ. 
 
 Q. Think it over, and if you have anything more to say about 
 it come next week. 
 
 John A. Fritz, re-called. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Mr. Fritz, I draw your attention to this first bill, which I 
 showed you this morning, for 111 tons 830 pounds broken coal,. 
 $568.25. J^ow, please look at the ledger No. 4, page 55, and the 
 sales book No. 9, pages 17 to 20, as to the first item. I draw 
 your attention to the fact' that there is an erasure both in the 
 ledijer and in the sales book. When did you make those 
 erasures? A. I must have made them when I was there. 
 
 Q. Do you remember anything about it? A. No; I don't 
 remember it now. 
 
 Q. I draw your attention to the fact that you have extended 
 the quantity of coal falsely 25,345 pounds — you have extended it 
 $61.19, whereas it figures up $57.68; why did you do that ? A. 
 I didn't do it intentionally ; it must have been an error. 
 
 Q. Look at the next item, 26,690 pounds; that is over an 
 erasure both in the sales book and the ledger. When did you 
 make those erasures ? JL. I made them when I was there. 
 
 Q. You have extended that falsely in the ledger at $64.43, 
 whereas the true extension is $60.79; why did you do so? A. It 
 must have been an error in carrying it out. 
 
 Q. Look at the next item of the 11th; you will find in the 
 order book 52,740 pounds and then in the ledger 68,635 pounds; 
 why did you carry that falsely to the ledger? A. I made an 
 error in transferring it. 
 
 Q. An error of 16,000 pounds? A. It must have been that. 
 
 Q. Look at the extension of that item ; you have extended it 
 at .§165.70, whereas the true extension is $120.36, why did you 
 do that? A. It must have been error; it is the only way I can 
 explain it. 
 
 Q. See the next item, the 13th; the weight is 12,970 pounds 
 and extended at $31.31 ; the true extension is .§29.58. How is it 
 that all these are errors in extension ; what do you say as to 
 that ? A. It must have been an error in making the amount up. 
 
 Q. Look at the next item, on the 14th, 44,640 pounds ; that is 
 extended $113.83; the true amount is $101.64; is that also an 
 error ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman — Is there a single error in favor of the 
 State ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think not. 
 
JOHK A. FRITZ. 291 
 
 Q. The next item, the 16th, 23,710 pounds; you have extended 
 it $60.46 ; the true extension is $54.06 ; is that also an error ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The next item, on the 17th; do you see in the ledger 
 27,972 pounds; is that right? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that your handwriting ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. IS'ow, I call your attention to the fact that there is no such 
 entry in the order book; how do you account for that? A. I 
 must have transferred that directly from those receipt stubs. 
 
 Q. But you have entered opposite to it " Page 19 of the order 
 book," haven't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Go to the order book and see if you fiad it ? A. It don't 
 appear there. 
 
 Q. That doesn't appear anywhere in that book; why did you 
 do that? A. Well, I must have made a mistake in putting that 
 page in there, and taking it from there and put it on the same 
 page. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say that you took and added there dt- 
 liberately 27,972 pounds and then referred to the page in the 
 order book, aad that the whole thing is a mistake? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that every item in this bill is a mere mistake ? A. 
 That is all I can — I know nothing of it. 
 
 Q. You will observe the true extension of the items is $114.14 
 less than the amount you have charged to the State, and that 
 that would be just 33J per cent.; is that a mistake? A. Yes, 
 that is a mistake. 
 
 Q. I guess not; I gaes3 that is what you meant to do that 
 time, wasu't it? A. ISTo, sir; I did not. 
 
 Q. (By the Chairman) — Where you drunk when you did it ? 
 A. No, sir; I was not. 
 
 Q. Don't you see that you are no longer an expert accountant 
 if what you say is true, that you made an error in extending every 
 item in that bill ? (No answer.) 
 
 Q. Are you willing to leave it in that position that you have 
 made blunders iu every item in that bill iu extending, and added 
 one item of $71.73 that is utterly false; are you willing to leave 
 it right there 2 A. I can't do anything eke with it. 
 
 Q. Who directed you to do that ? A. Nobody. 
 
 Q. You don't want us to believe that you made au error in 
 extending every item in that bill, do you ? A. I don't see what 
 else you can believe. 
 
 The Chairman — We do believe a good deal difforent. 
 Q. Who profited by this alteration ? A. I was not aware that 
 there was any profit made by it. 
 
292 JOHN A. FRITZ. 
 
 Q. You will see by a very simple calculation that $114.14 was 
 made by it, which was 33|^ per cent, of that bill ; didn't some- 
 body direct you to do it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you pocket the money that came from it yourself? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. When the check came from the State, what did you enter 
 up on the other side ? A. The amount of the check. 
 
 Q. Why is the amount of the check entered there over an 
 erasure, then? A. It must have been an error in the business. 
 
 Q. You will find on that ledger that all checks from thu State 
 are entered over erasures ; do you mean to say that you entered 
 them all wrong first, and then entered them over again ? J.. I 
 suppose I did. 
 
 Q. Didn't you do it last Sunday? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Or about that time? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. But you are willing to say here that every check that came 
 from the State was first entered wrong, and you first discovered 
 it when you got the money, and then erased it and entered it 
 again? A. I don't think there was. 
 
 Q. You did; they are all over an erasure? A. I don't think 
 all of them are. 
 
 Q. It is possible there is an exception ; how happens it that all 
 your fiotings of the State accounts are written over erasures? 
 A. May have made an error in footing them up in the first place 
 and changed them. 
 
 Q. Your theories are interesting, if true ; I will take one more, 
 Mr. Fritz, in fairness to you, and give you another chance to 
 explain ; please look at the ledger, page 56, the order book will 
 be No. 9; I show you bill of January 20th, 1891 — that is your 
 handwriting, you said? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the item of January 5th ; what number of pounds 
 do you find there ? A. January 5th, there is no such date here ; 
 it is January 6th. 
 
 Q. You don't find any such item in your ledger, do you ? A. 
 Not on that date ; there is one on the 6th. 
 
 (,>. That is not the one ; see if you find any item there of 
 26,000 pounds? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Look in the order book, January 5th, and see if you find it 
 there. You will not; it isn't there. Now, in your bill to the 
 State you have entered 26,000 pounds of coal ; how do you ex- 
 plain it? A. Well, I must have taken that from the — of course 
 I took all those items from the receipt stubs, and omitted it in 
 transferring it from the stubs into the order book. 
 
JOHN A. FRITZ. 293 
 
 Q. Bat your receipt stubs were all finished and transferred to 
 your sales book? A. I suppose they were. 
 
 Q. And checked off? A. No, sir; never checked ofi. 
 
 Q. But those that are produced here appear to be checked off 
 on the stub ? .4. I never did it. 
 
 Q. Look at the item of the 8th of January, two days later ; you 
 will find no such item in the ledger, nor yet in the saleabook; 
 but there it is, 18,800 pounds of coal charged to the State in the 
 bill; why did you do that? A. Same way as the other, I sap- 
 pose. 
 
 Q. Have you any explanation to give us at all? A. Any more 
 than I omitted it in transferring it in those receipts, bringing it 
 out of the sales book. 
 
 Q. Omitted it from the sales book and ledger, and yet charged 
 it to the State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You attempted to balance your books : I will show you how 
 you made your ledger come straight. Look at the item on the 
 9th of January; how much is it in your ledger? A. 46,710 
 pounds. 
 
 Q. Look at it in your bill to the State. 8,470 ; why didn^t you 
 charge the State all there was there ? A. Those three items 
 must be in this one. 
 
 Q. (By the Chairman) — Young man, do you know the posi- 
 tion that you have before this Committee and before this com- 
 munity of the State. Have you no self-respect at all; do you 
 know that everything that you said here to day is taken down 
 stenographically ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By the Chairman) — And do you know that it may be used 
 against you ? A. Well, I can't do any more than tell you the 
 truth. 
 
 Q. (By the Chairman) — That is what you are not telling us. 
 A. I beg your pardon, I am. 
 
 The Chairman — That testimony will go before the 
 Grand Jury. 
 
 Q. Is it not the fact that these two false entries of 2G,000 
 pounds and 18,800 pounds are off-set by this false entry in the 
 ledger raising that item of the 9th, from 8,470 to 46,710 ? A. 
 That item was never raised that I knaw of. 
 
 Q. You see it is written over an erasure? A. It is written 
 over an erasure. 
 
 Q. Do you not see that it appears to have been written at a 
 different time? A. I can't see that it does. 
 
 Q. Didn't you, in fact, write that quite recently, to make this 
 balance ? A, No, sir. 
 
294 JOHN A. FRITZ. 
 
 Q. When did you write it? A. \ wrote it when I was there. 
 
 ^. Da you think it is possible such a mistake as the differ- 
 ence between 8,000 pounds and 46,000 paunds could happen and 
 escape your, attention when a check came in from the State; do 
 you think that is possible? A. I don't see how it occurred. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to one thing more — this bill has been 
 increased exactly |100; may be that will refresh your memory? 
 Did you get instructions from somebody to raise that bill $100? 
 A. No. sir. 
 
 Q. Did you do it of your own accord 1 A. \ didn't raise it 
 just $100. 
 
 q. Refer to the bill of April 6, 1891, this little bill; the first 
 one is eigiat cords of wood at $S a cord, $64. Don't you know 
 that, as a matter of fact, it is only charged on your books at a 
 cord and a half of wood? Ledger 4, page 56 — and didn't you 
 deliberately raise that entry from one and a half cords to eight 
 cords of wood ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where did you get that eight cords from then ? A. From 
 the stub of the receipt book. 
 
 Q. Do you have stubs for the delivery of wood as well as coal ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, look at the item of the 10th on that bill before you — 
 21,640 pounds of coal — where did you get that from ? A. From 
 the check book. 
 
 Q,. Look at the ledger and see if you find anything like it 
 in the ledger. Look at the item of the 16th of the same month 
 — 21,810; do you find that in the ledger? A. No, sir. 
 
 q. Look at the item of the 24th— 17,960; is that in the ledger ? 
 
 A. Not in that amount, it isn't. 
 
 q. Is there anything there on the 24th ? A. No, sir. 
 
 q. Nor is it in the order book. Well, now look at that bill 
 again, on the 12th of the month; what do you find in the bill? 
 A. 8,200 pounds. 
 
 (J. Now look at your ledger; what do you find it there? A. 
 It doesn't appear. 
 
 q. 38,200, don't you ? A. No, sir. 
 
 q. Let us see about that. You have got the wrong date — oh, 
 March 12th is the date ; look at March 12th — your bill to the 
 State— 38,200; what do you find in the ledger? A. 38,200. 
 
 Q. Dr)o't you see for yourself that that entry has been obviously 
 tampered with ? ^. I don't think so. 
 
 The Chairman — What is the use of talking that way 
 before intelligent men ; have you no respect for yourself 
 and your family ? 
 
JOHN A. FRITZ. 295 
 
 Q. Look at the next nne, the 13th of March, right below; 
 what is it in the bill in your hand? A. 2,830. 
 
 Q. Now look in the ledger; what do you see there; 32,830, 
 isn't it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That has been tampered with, too, hasn't it? A. 1 don't 
 know as it has. 
 
 Q. Now, Mr. Fritz, there are three serious false entries in that 
 bill, two of them raises of 30,000 pounds each of coal ; there is 
 another of 6J cords of wood falsely added ; the other three entries 
 that are on that bill are absolutely not in the books at all. Do 
 you mean to tell me that it was an accident that all that hap- 
 pened? A. In taking those diflerent items for the State's bills I 
 took them directly from the stub of the check book, and in 
 putting them in the ledger I may have gotten — which I am pretty 
 sure — gotten two or three days together, or possibly four days, 
 and put them in in one lump. 
 
 Q. So that the total would be the same? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How do you account for it that all that was done on the 
 12th and 13th, and these two big items of 30,000 pounds didn't 
 occur until days and days after; that is, the two raised items of 
 the 12th and 13th, and the items not seen in the books are the 
 16th and 24th ? A. The items of the 16th and 24th, I say, are 
 not in here. 
 
 Q. You say you think they are lumped in those large items? 
 A. E"o, sir. 
 
 Q. How then ? J.. I think those different amounts, the 
 amounts here and there — the amounts in that bill and these 
 amounts here are lumped with these items here. 
 
 Q. How could you lump them two weeks before you delivered 
 the coal? A. It wasn't two weeks. 
 
 Q. It is the difference between the 12th and 24th? A. They 
 don't occur in the books. 
 
 Q. It occurred on your bill to the State; there you will see it; 
 here is a sheet that will show it perfectly plain. On the first 
 item of the bill 6|- cords of wood is added ; the next item is the 
 10th ; there is an item of 21,640 pounds which is not in the books 
 at all. The next two items that are changed here appear to be 
 the 12th and 13th, where the 30,000 pounds are added to each, 
 or 60,000 pounds in all. Now go on down, and you will see that 
 on the 16£h there is an item, not in the books at all, of 21,810 
 pounds ; go still further down to the 24th, an item of 17,960 ; 
 you will see that the 60,000 pounds of coal added just about cor- 
 responds with those three false entries, and the 6J cords of wood, 
 in amount. Now have you any other explanation to give for 
 
296 JOHN A. FRITZ. 
 
 this? A. That ia the only explanation I can give you, that they 
 were put in in ditierents amounts — a lump sum. 
 
 Q. That doesn't explain it, because you put in a lump sum on 
 the 12th and 13th, whereas those large amounts do not appear 
 until the 24th? A. That must have been omitted in transferring 
 them from the stubs to these books, and then — 
 
 Q. They are not in the books? A. I say they must have been 
 omitted. 
 
 Q. How did you get them on the bill? A. I took the amounts 
 from the checks — the stub checks — the receipt checks. 
 
 Q. That doesn't explain it, Mr. Fritz. Now, I draw your 
 attention to the fact that the result of these changes raised this 
 bill from |432 to $569, or about 32 per cent. Were you figuring 
 at any particular per cent, in making these changes? A. I don't 
 know of any changes. 
 
 Q. On the bill of January, 1891, I call your attention to the 
 fact that the changes made there, of a similar sort, amounted to 
 just $100 — I think we did have that bill. Was it by design that 
 those errors amounted to just $100? A. 'No, sir. 
 
 Q. That is an accident, is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the other one I have called your attention to, where 
 it is 38|^ per cent. ; it is an accident that those errors amounted 
 to just that sum? A. I don't know how else it could be. 
 
 Q. Although there are four or five errors in that bill, and all 
 of them together amounted to 33 per cent., you still say it is a 
 mere accident ? A. Tes, sir; that is all it is. 
 
 Q. And the adding of the hundred dollars to the bill was a 
 mere accident? A. There wasn't any hundred dollars added to 
 the bill. 
 
 Q. Or a hundred dollars' worth of coal ? A. Nor any hun- 
 dred dollars' worth of coal. 
 
 The Chairman — You may go and think this over. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — These changes where the 30,000 
 pounds had been added; these figures were made when you were 
 there? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By the ChairmaD) — When you worked there ? A. When 
 I worked there ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And there were no changes made in 
 these books the last time you were at the office with Mr. D'Arcy 
 and examined them? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — These erasures were not made at that 
 time? A. No, sir. 
 
DANIEL HAGGERTY. 297 
 
 Daniel Haggbety, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you live ? A. In the City of Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your present occupation ? J.. I am employed by 
 the State at the present time. 
 
 Q. In what capacity ? A. Deputy in the Stale Prison ? 
 
 Q. How long have you been there? A. Since January, 1890, 
 I think. 
 
 Q. Do you know Michael Hurley ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know Bernard J. Ford? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You have known them for some years, have you not ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Quite intimate with them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Frequently at the State House ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. At Mr. Ford's office ? A. When I came here when he was 
 employed here I always stopped to see him. 
 
 Q. Did you meet Major Hurley at the State House? A. Some- 
 times I did. 
 
 Q. I show you a note signed Daniel Haggerty, payable 
 three days after date to the order of M. Hurley; is that your sig- 
 nature ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you give that note for? A. Well, at that time I 
 was about to have a mortgage refunded, I think ; I owed some 
 money on the mortgage and I had some ; the mortgage was about 
 to come due, and Mr. Hurley endorsed the note for me. 
 
 Q. You didn't meet this note at maturity; I see it is marked 
 charged to Major Hurley's account and his books show it ; you 
 didn't pay it, did you ? A. 'So, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you ever paid it? A. Can I explain? 
 
 Q. You haven't paid it yet? A. So, sir, I haven't, no. 
 
 Q. I show you a check dated May 10th, 1890, by M. Hurley 
 to Daniel Haggerty ; is that your endorsement ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was that paid to you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What form ? A. Money that I loaned him. 
 
 Q. What shape was your money that you loaned him? A. A 
 note. 
 
 Q. Did you lend him your name? A. No, sir; I drew the 
 money out of the bank; I had a little money at the time. 
 
 Q. You lent him cash then on the note ? A. Yes, sir ; cash. 
 
 Q. He had it how long, that money of yours ? A. Well, I 
 think probably three or four months ; might have been longer. 
 
 Q. That paid the loan up to date ? A. Yes, sir. Now about 
 that — 
 
298 DANIEL HAGGEETY. 
 
 Q. Three or four raonths ; that carries it right back to the first 
 note? A. About me signing that first note, I just want an 
 opportunity to explain it. 
 
 Q,. You shall certainly have it. I show you a check by M. 
 Hurley to your order, dated April 13th, 1891, for |50; is that 
 your endorsement? A. That is my endorsement. 
 
 Q. What did he give you that money for? A. Money that I 
 loaned him. 
 
 Q. How long had he had your money ? A.J. don't know ; he 
 might have had it a month, probably, or six weeks. 
 
 Q. Have you got any checks to show these loans? A. I don't 
 think I have. 
 
 Q. I show you a check to your order signed M. Hurley, Sep- 
 tember 2l8t, 1891, $200; is that your endorsement? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is that for ? A . Money that I loaned to Hurley. 
 
 Q. Have you got any checks to show it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you a note of three months by you to the order of 
 Michael Hurley, dated November 17th, 1891, for $500; have you 
 ever paid that note ? A. No, sir ; I never nave paid that note ; I 
 will explain that. 
 
 Q. Yes, glad to give you an opportunity. You had the money 
 on it? A. No, sir ; I never got the money on it. 
 
 Q. Did not? A. No, sir; it was a business transaction; an 
 accommodation. 
 
 Q. Well, I show you the same date where the result of the 
 discount of that note, $492.19, was checked to your order ; is that 
 your endorsement on the back? -A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you did get the proceeds? A. I may have got that ; 
 probably that was some money that I loaned him. 
 
 Q. You got it. Have you ever repaid it ? ^4.1 say that may 
 have been money that I loaned Mr. Hurley. 
 
 Q. You gave your note for it? I guess he loaned it to you, 
 didn't he ? A. He might have done it. 
 
 Q. You haven't paid it back yet? A. No, sir. Anything that 
 I owed him I always paid him. 
 
 Q. I show you a note dated June 5th, 1893, for $300, given by 
 you to M. Hurley; is that your signature? A. Yes, sir, that is 
 my signature. 
 
 Q. That seems to have been charged to his account at ma- 
 turity; have you ever paid that note? A. No, sir, because it 
 was his note. 
 
 Q. I show you a note dated September 8th, 1893, given by 
 Daniel Haggerty to M. Hurley for $250, that seems to have been 
 
DANIEL HAGGERTY. 299 
 
 charged to Mr. Hurley; have you ever paid that note. A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you a note dated December 16th, 1893, made by 
 you to the order of M. Hurley and charged to him, $100; have 
 you paid that? A. 'No, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you a note dated March 19th, 1894, made by you to 
 M. Hurley for $100; have you paid that? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. That is charged to Mr. Hurley? A. That is right. 
 
 Q. And also one of June 22d, 1894, $100, signed by you, en- 
 dorsed by Mr. Hurley ; is that your signature ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you paid it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, now, we will refer to the first note, this $1,600 note, 
 January 16th, 1890; what was that for? A. That is an accom- 
 modation for Mr. Hurley in his business; he wanted the money 
 at the time, and he asked me to sign my name to it as a business 
 accommodation. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you put your name on the back? A. Because 
 he wanted to put his own name on the back so that he would 
 have a better standing in the bank. 
 
 Q. There is another of $500? A. They are all the same way. 
 
 Q. That one of $500 you got the proceeds of? A. That is 
 money that I have loaned Mr. Hurley. 
 
 Q. (By the Chairmf.n) — Didn't you say that that first note the 
 proceeds were used toward refunding a mortgage that you had ? 
 A. I don't understand juet what it was; I knew there was some 
 checks of mine there, and I knew that — if you will allow me, I 
 want to tell the truth and explain it. Now, those notes that I 
 have signed here — this note that I signed for Mr. Hurley — I am 
 a friend of his, and I signed the note simply instead of endorsing 
 it, because ray credit would be no good at the bank, consequently 
 my endorsement would not amount to much ; I wasn't acquainted 
 at his bank. 
 
 Q. (By the Chairman) — What about refunding the mortgage ? 
 A. I borrowed some money of Mr. Hurley, I think some time 
 in 1891 or 1892. 
 
 Q. (By the Chairman) — That hadn't anything to do with the 
 note ? ^. It had something to do with some of those notes, 
 but I don't know just which one. I never charged my mind 
 with it ; I was receiving no benefit from it, only just accommo- 
 dation for a friend, the same as we would exchange checks if I 
 was in business. 
 
 Q. But here. Major Hurley holds your note yet ; you have 
 never paid it ; did you never receive it back ? A. No, sir ; it is 
 paid. 
 
300 DANIEL HAGGERTY. 
 
 Q. Appareutly you are first liable on that note 1 A. \ am not 
 afraid about that ; that note is paid. 
 
 Q. Do you still say this was in connection with refunding a 
 mortgage on your property ? A. No, I don't think that was ; I 
 think that check there — I don't think that was as I said about 
 this. 
 
 Q. Did you get the proceeds of that ? A. No, sir, not to my 
 knowledge. 
 
 §. Well, now, take another one? A. There is one that I did 
 get— 
 
 Q. Not to your knowledge ; you have given us two theories 
 already about it ? A. That is all right ; I am not accastomed 
 to law and lawyers, but if you will allow me to explain the matter 
 I will explain it in my own way and in an honest way. 
 
 Q. Gj on ? A. There is one of those notes that I did get the 
 proceeds from where Mr. Hurley lent me some money. 
 
 Q. Won't you confine yourself to that one ? A. This note, I 
 don't think it was January 16th, 1890 ; no, sir, I think it was 
 around 1892 when I paid off the mortgage. 
 
 Q. Now, about tnat particular note ? A. About this particular 
 note, as I say, I met Mr. Hurley and he said he had to pay a 
 bill, and he wanted to know if I wouldn't sign a note for him, 
 and instead of my endorsing it, my name would be no good in 
 the bank as an endorser, and the note was made to him. 
 
 §. Where did you meet him ? A. \ can't tell where I met 
 him, four or five years ago, probably, on the street. 
 
 Q. Who drew up the note ? A. It was drew up in his office, 
 I suppose. 
 
 Q. You pretend to tell us that that you remember the time 
 and all this talk; do you remember where or when? A. I met 
 him somewhere on the street, probably. 
 
 Q. Well, now look at another note; there is a note for $500; 
 what was the occasion of giving that? A. When was this, 
 November 17th, 1891 ? Well, that was in the same way ; you can 
 go to the Trenton Banking Company and find out. 
 
 §. You simply gave him that note for his accommodation ? 
 A. For his accommodation. 
 
 Q. He took the proceeds, and you didn't ? A. Well, as I 
 said, it was one of them; I can't tell you which one it is; there 
 is one of them, as I say, I got the proceeds of it, or he had it dis- 
 counted for me. 
 
 Q. I guess this is the one ; there is a check to your order for 
 $492? A. I guess that is the one. 
 
DANIEL HAQGERTY. 301 
 
 Q. This note is marked "M. Hurley," and is charged on his 
 account in the bank? A. That is right ; I paid Mr. Hurley. 
 
 Q. When did you pay Mr. Hurley? A. I suppose I paid him 
 a short time afterwards ; I don't know when. 
 
 Q. Have you any evidence of it? A, \ don't know that I 
 have any evidence of it. 
 
 Q. Did you pay it by check? A. No, sir; I have no bank 
 account. 
 
 Q. Can you tell why this first note of $600, for Mr. Hurley's 
 accommodation, was made at three days' sight ? A. Simply be- 
 cause he did not want to pay so much discount, I suppose ; I 
 don't know any other way. 
 
 §. You will see by looking at it that it was not used until 
 three days after the 19th, and it was charged up the same day. 
 A. I suppose he dropped that in the bank and had it put to his 
 account ; you know how those things are done. 
 
 Q. But it was charged to his account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It was put in the bank on the 19th and credited and 
 charged to his account the same day ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How does that accommodate a man — I don't see ? ^. It was 
 his method — 
 
 Q. It was a method of getting $600 out of his cash account, 
 I can see that, by taking the note in on the day of its maturity 
 and let the endorser pay it, and at the same time charge it and 
 credit it to him. Can you tell how that accommodates him ? A, 
 It is the only way I know, instead of me endorsing the notes ; 
 my word wouldn't be any good in a bank, or my name, and he 
 had me sign the note for him. 
 
 Q. That note is dated January 16th ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (^. It runs three days ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. On the 19th, which is three days later, that note is charged 
 up to Major Hurley's bank account, and $600 drawn out of his 
 bank account; how does your name help it? A. Didn't he get 
 the money on that note? 
 
 Q. I suppose he did. He got it out of his bank account and 
 had it charged to his account in the bank; how does your name 
 help it? A. \ don't know what theory or how you are going to 
 consider it ; that is one of those notes that I signed. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say that he asked you to sign a three days' 
 note for the accommodation? A. He has; I not only say it, I 
 swear it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Do you keep money in the bank? 
 A. Sometimes. 
 
302 DANIEL HAGGEKTY. 
 
 Q. How do you get it out? A. In the savings bank ; I don't 
 do any regular banking business. 
 
 Q. You paid no further attention to that note after you put 
 your name to it? A. No, sir; I knew Mr. Hurley would look 
 after it. 
 
 Q. Did you go to the bank with him ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Wasn't that note, as a matter of fact, drawn right in the 
 bank? A. Well, it may have been drawn in the bank; I can't 
 say. 
 
 Q. Didn't you sign it right in the bank? A. I don't know if 
 I signed it in the bank or not ; I might have signed it there ; 
 now, it strikes me that I did sign one there, and I remember him 
 introducing me to Mr. Snider, the cashier of the bank there. 
 
 Q. And didn't he take it up to the teller and get it cashed right 
 then and there? A. Yes, he did, one of them ; that is a fact; 
 you have a better memory than I have. 
 
 Q. Now, you see that paper is signed, and the bank has got 
 that piece of paper and the Major has got $600 in cash in his 
 pocket. Didn't he give you some of it at the time ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't turn it over to yoa at all ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You observe that that amounts to nothing but a check to 
 get that money out of the bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 A. Didn't turn over any of it to you at all ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't know what he did with it ? A. Used it in his 
 business I suppose ; that is what he told me. 
 
 Q. Did you and the Major part right there or come back up to 
 the State House together ? Q. We parted there ; I wasn't on 
 my way to the State House. 
 
 Q. On your way away from the State House ? A. It strikes me 
 that was on Saturday morning. 
 
 Q. But the Major took the $600 and you didn't take any of it? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The next one, this $500, about twenty months later, that 
 one you certainly did take some — there is the check, you got the 
 proceeds of the discounts yourself, didn't you? A. A. I toll 
 you I did. 
 
 Q. You think you paid that back afterwards, do you? A. 
 1 think so ; I don't think I owe the Major any money. 
 
 Q. Do you think you can show a check where you paid back 
 that|490? A. I don't know as I can ; I don't think I paid it 
 in check. 
 
 Q. How did you pay it ? ^. I think I paid it in notes. 
 
 Q. You mean your own notes ? A. Bank notes ; I can't say. 
 
DANIEL HAGGERTY. 303 
 
 Q. Do you remember where you got the currency to pay the 
 note of $500? A. I suppose I have saved it from my earnings. 
 
 Q. Did you pay it at maturity? A. I think I did; I don't 
 know. 
 
 Q. When it came due it was charged to Major Hurley? A. 
 That might be. 
 
 A. The Major hasn't given you any credit for it ? A. He has 
 had my notes renewed sometimes, notes that I have endorsed. 
 
 Q. But you don't remember how or when you paid that back ? 
 A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you pay it all at once, or several times? A. I might 
 Gave paid — I think when I paid it I paid it all at once. 
 
 Q. Was it at or about maturity ? A. Well, I am hot positive 
 about that; as I say, I didn't charge my mind about it; I didn't 
 expect three or four years ago that I would have to come before 
 the court or the committee and testify as to private transactions; 
 if I had known that I was coming here I might have been pre- 
 pared for it; I suppose I have the bank book around the house. 
 
 Q. You can prepare yourself yet. June 5th, 1893, a note by 
 you to M. Hurley for $300 ; that also at maturity was charged to 
 Mr. Hurley; did you get the money on that? A. No, sir; I 
 don't think I did. 
 
 Q. Do you recollect about the circumstances of that note? 
 A. I don't recollect it particularly. 
 
 Q. Was that drawn up by Mr. Hurley's bookkeeper or not '> 
 A. I don't know who it was drawn by ; Mr. Hurley asked me if 
 I would sign it. 
 
 Q. Where did he present it to you for your signature ? A. 1 
 couldn't say. 
 
 Q. Did you drop in his office sometimes? A. Sometimes; I 
 have often dropped in there. 
 
 Q. Wasn't that one drawn in his place of business by his book- 
 deeper and didn't you put your name on it there ? A. It might 
 have been and might not ; I can't say. 
 
 Q. He paid it when it came due? A. I suppose he did ; the 
 bank never called on me to pay it. 
 
 Q. Are you sure he got the proceeds of that, whether you or 
 he? A. I say there is one that I got the proceeds of; I don't 
 know if it is that particular one of $472; as I said, I didn't 
 charge my mind about it or keep any record of it ; I have often 
 endorsed paper for Major Hurley and he has possibly endorsed 
 for me and lent me money. 
 
 Q. Here is another one, September 8th, 1898, for $250, made 
 by M. Hurley for three months. What was that for ? ^. As I 
 
304 DANIEL HAGGEETY. 
 
 explained, I suppose for Mr. Hurley's accommodation ; instead of 
 me endorsing the notes, I was not acquainted at the bank, and I 
 made the note and the Major signed it; that is all there is about 
 
 it. 
 
 Q. It was for his accommodation? A. Yes, sir; for his 
 
 accommodation. 
 
 Q. And is that true of all these other notes that I have shown 
 you? A. All of them except one, to the best of my knowledge; 
 yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They were all for the Major's accommodation? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did he sign any for your accommodation 1 A. 1 think he 
 has. 
 
 Q. Did he ever return to you any of these notes which you 
 signed for his accommodation? A. No, sir; I never asked him 
 for them. 
 
 Q. Did you never receive the proceeds of any note except that 
 one which I have proved by the check t A. 1 can't remember 
 now ; I may have. 
 
 Q. You may have received the proceeds of some of the others ? 
 A. Probably you will find checks in there where the Major has 
 paid me §200 or $300, money that I have loaned him ; you might 
 find them there. 
 
 Q. But that was no loan ? A. No, that is right ; it was not a 
 loan. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. I understand you to say, and if I am wrong you will correct 
 me, that Major Hurley wanted to borrow $600 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that he took your note so that he could get it dis- 
 counted ? A. So that he could have it discounted at the bank 
 immediately, and he said he wanted to use it. 
 
 Q. And made the time three days, so that they would give 
 him really six days instead of three ? A. He didn't explain it 
 to me. 
 
 Q. It is dated January 16th, at three days — that would give 
 him six days ; that is quite a frequent practice where a man 
 wants to borrow money temporarily and don't want to pay 
 interest for a long time, simply to make the time short, and this 
 note was not cashed at the counter, evidently, because it has gone 
 to Major Hurley's credit, because the stamp here says that the 
 bookkeeper at the bank put the number of it on it, and the date, 
 &c., which would be three days after that? A. It strikes me it 
 
DANIEL HAGGERTY. 305 
 
 was Saturday ; I remember, when Mr. Corbin calls my attention 
 to it, I remember him telling me that he wanted to use it. 
 
 Q. So that you don't know, of course you can't recollect? A, 
 No, because I didn't charge my mind with it. 
 
 Q. That Major Hurley got that money; he certainly would 
 undoubtedly taise that note and put it in at the counter and it 
 would be passed to his credit. I see the note is drawn by the 
 note teller of the Trenton Banking Company ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that Major Hurley simply picked you up and asked you 
 to accommodate him for three days? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that you gave no thought or attention to it, because he 
 took care of the note when it came due and was charged to his 
 account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And your interest ceased in it there, only to accommodate 
 him? A. Yes, sir; I ceased because I knew I was not to be 
 bothered with it. So far as signing notes, I never signed a note 
 here at the State House in my life. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't think anybody has charged you 
 with that. 
 
 Witness — You asked me if it wasn't at the State 
 House I signed some of these. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I asked you if you came to the State 
 House with the Major. 
 
 Witness — No, not that day. 
 Adjourned to Thursday, March 28th, 1895. 
 
 Trenton, March 28th, 1895, 10 A.M. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The evidence in this inquiry is necessarily taken 
 in a somewhat fragmentary form. It is not possible always to 
 close up one particular branch of the subject at a single sitting, 
 and, therefore, the significance of the different parts of the evi- 
 dence is not always apparent at the time it is oftered. As there 
 is no summing up in this sort of proceeding at the end of it, I 
 will make some comments from time to time from the evidence 
 as we complete one branch of it, and it is my purpose to-day to 
 refer to some matters concerning which the evidence has already 
 been taken at difierent times, and perhaps ofler some new evi- 
 dence to show the result of the inquiry in these difierent direc- 
 tions, so that the record may be more clear for the use of the 
 Committee when it is written up. 
 
 One subject which has been referred to is the sale of State 
 property by the Superintendent of the State House. The official 
 
 20 SH 
 
306 JOHN EIKEE. 
 
 papers on file in the library, and also the official information in 
 the Comptroller's office, show that sales of State property were 
 made by the Superintendent on the 30th of April, 1891 ; on June 
 16, 1891 ; and on certain dates in 1892, April 13, 1892, being one 
 of them; and certain dates in 1893; and finally, a public sale 
 was held of the court room furniture and other property on 
 December 28, 1893. Also, some intimations have come out ia 
 the testimony, and there is indication of private sales of public 
 property. I have been unable to find any record whatever, either 
 in the Superintendent's office, or Governor's office, or the Comp- 
 troller's office, or the Treasurer's office, of the details of any of 
 th-ese sales. The testimony before the Committee shows that all 
 the files of the Grovernor's office at the end of Governor Abbett's 
 term, and all the files of the Superintendent's office, were 
 removed, and no report of the sales seems ever to have been 
 made to the Treasurer or Comptroller, and there is nothing in 
 the State House that I am able to find which would show the 
 result of these sales. 
 
 Senator Skirm — No cash entered ? 
 
 Mr. Corbiu — Yes, there have been three returns made of cash, 
 and I will call Mr. Eiker to show the examination that has been 
 made in regard to it. 
 
 John Eiker, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are clerk in the Treasurer's office? A. Yes, sir; 
 under the Custodian awarded to that office. 
 
 Q. Have you made search in the Treasurer's office to find out 
 whether there are any records there of the sales of State property 
 made in the last three or four years ? A. Yes, sir ; there is one 
 for the fiscal year ending — 
 
 Q. You have made a search, have you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You find three, do you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 y. What did you find in the way of report? A. Simply the 
 check handed to the Treasurer. 
 
 Q. Well, you don't mean that you didn't find the check? J.. No. 
 
 Q. What did you find ? J.. I found that there had been so 
 much money given in to the Treasury on October Ist, 1891. 
 
 Q. Entered where? A. Iq their blotter. 
 
 Q. Simply in your cash blotter as an item of cash received ? 
 A. That is it. 
 
 Q. Are these three type-written statements, which you have 
 furnished me, copies of the entries in your book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
JOHN KIKER. 307 
 
 Q. Is that all the record that you find in the State House with 
 reference to those sales? A. That is all. 
 
 Q. I will read it and ask the stenographer to put it on the 
 record: "Deposited B.J.Ford check on the Second National 
 Bank of Newark, N". J., dated October 26th, 1891, for amount 
 reported to State Treasurer as proceeds of sale at the State House 
 of old furniture, carpets, boilers, engines, etc., to October 31st, 
 1891, $2,064-.21." The second one is: " Deposited B. J. Ford, 
 Superintendent, check on the Second National Bank of Newark, 
 N. J., dated October Slst, 1892, for amount reported to the 
 Treasurer as proceeds of sale at State House of old furniture, 
 carpets, gas fixtures, etc., to October 31st, 1892, $1,051. '.^5." 
 "Deposited B. J.Ford, Superintendent, check on the Second 
 National Bank of Newark, N. J., dated October 25th, 1893, 
 being amount reported to Treasurer as proceeds of sale at State 
 House of old furniture, carpets, etc., to October 31st, 1893, 
 $708.85." Was any record of how these sums were made up 
 furnished to the State Treasurer? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there any record in the State House that you can find ? 
 A. Not that I know of. 
 
 Q. Were you present at the auction sale? A. Only going 
 through the hall, that is all. 
 
 Q. You had no part in it ? A. None whatever. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I draw the attention of the Committee 
 to the fact that these sums are turned in in cheeks at 
 the end of the fiscal year, which is October 31st, annu- 
 ally. For example, the sales in 1891 were made in 
 April and in June, when the Assembly Chamber was 
 torn down, but nothing was turned in to the State until 
 October 31st, 1891, the end of the fiscal year. Then a 
 check tor simply a lump sum is handed in, with the re- 
 mark, apparently, that " This is what I have received." 
 Q. Has this ever been checked off by anybody ? A. Not that 
 I know of. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — A public sale was advertised December 
 
 27th, 1893, to take place on December 28th, 1893, of a 
 
 lot of desks, chairs, &c., being the court-room furniture. 
 
 Q. Have any returns ever come in from that sale? A. Only 
 
 those three that I mentioned. 
 
 Q. This is two motiths later than the last one ? A. Nothicg 
 for last year at all. 
 
 Q. And nothing since that time? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Do you know what that sale realized ? A. No, sir ; nothing 
 about it. 
 
308 JOHN COJSXELL. 
 
 Q. Aud there is no record of it here ? A. Not to my knowl- 
 edge. 
 
 John Connell, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Are you in the employ of the State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What capacity? A. Well, in the pay roll counted as a 
 doorman, but I am really employed at the telephone office; that 
 is what they call it; I am at the telephone office; I am all over. 
 
 Q. You are employed here in the hall ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been employed here ? A. Six years in 
 October. 
 
 Q. Were you present in December, 1893, at a sale of the furni- 
 ture of the Supreme Court room and Chancery room, and certain 
 other property ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where was that held? A. That was held outside here. 
 
 0. In the corridor ? A. In the corridor. 
 
 Q. Was Mr. Ford, the Superintendent, present ? ^. I think 
 he was present. 
 
 Q. It was under his charge? A. He was backwards and for- 
 wards ; under his charge ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you take any part in the sale, and if so, what? A. I 
 was keeping accouut of what they sold, and Mr. John Colville 
 cried the sale. 
 
 Q, You kept an account of the sale? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do with your account after the sale was over? 
 A. Mr. Ford has got it; he didn't get it at the time; he got it 
 afterwards ; he asked me how much it was — he lost sight of how 
 much it was and he asked me, and I gave him the whole thing; 
 sent it to him. 
 
 Q. How long after that sale did you send this record of it to 
 Mr. Ford? A. Some time; at the beginning of this year. 
 
 Q. Beginning of this year 1895? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there any record here left of it? A. 1 haven't got any. 
 
 Q. He sent for it recently ? A. He asked me the amount of it, 
 aud instead of doing that I sent him the whole thing. 
 
 Q. Was it in a book or on paper 't A. Just on a slip of paper. 
 
 Q. And you have no record of it left? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was any record of it made except that? ^1. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you happen to remember how much the sale amounted 
 to ? A. To the best of my knowledge the amount of money that 
 he held is $414.05, that is to the best of my knowledge. 
 
 Q. That was the amouut of that sale ; that was the amount 
 that he got ; you turned over everything to him ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
J. B, COLVJLLE. 309 
 
 Q. Was all this property sold ia a lump, or was it sold sepa- 
 rately? A. No, sif ; well, for instance, they took a lot of desk^ 
 and all that ; there was one long desk. 
 
 Q. That was the desk in the Supreme Courtroom? A. Yes, 
 sir ; that was sold separate, then another desk, and they sold 
 some chairs. 
 
 Q. Carpets? A. I don't think there was any carpets in that 
 sale ; if I remember right I don't think there was. 
 . Q. Settees, &c.? A. Yes, sir; settees; there was the old Su- 
 preme Court chairs and Chancery chairs. 
 
 Q. Who took the money? A. A good part of it was handed 
 over to me and I handed it to him ; I would get it to-day and 
 hand it over to-night, or perhaps the next day. 
 
 Q. Did everybody pay up ? A. Everybody paid up as far as I 
 know, that is, I got pay and he got some checks sent to him, and 
 when he told me what he got I would mark it off. 
 
 Q. How long ago was it Mr. Ford sent to you to ask the 
 amount of this? A. I don't know; I think it was some time in 
 January, this year. 
 
 Q. Was it since this Committee was appointed? A. No, I 
 don't think so ; I am not sure ; it was before that I guess. 
 
 Q. Did he ask you personally or write to you for it ? A. He 
 asked me personally and I told him if I could — he told me he 
 would like to have it; he thought he knew pretty near what it 
 was. " Well, " I says, "I can't tell you exactly, but I will find 
 out for you ; I think I have got a memorandum yet of it," and 
 so I sent him the memorandum, and he telephoned me after- 
 wards that it was just right with the account that he had, and he 
 said he had-that for you, he had that money saved for you. 
 
 Q. He has never sent the money to you ? A. He wouldn't 
 send it to me; I don't want it; I don't want any money; I have 
 got plenty. 
 
 J. B. CoLviLLE sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Cokbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. 215 Academy street, Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Auctioneer. 
 
 Q. Do you remember acting as auctioneer for Mr. Eord, the 
 Superintendent of the State House, in December, 1893, when the 
 court furniture was sold ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where was the auction held. A. Out here in the lobby. 
 
 Q. Who employed you ? A. Well, it was through Mr. Major 
 Hurley and Mr. Ford. 
 
310 J. B, COT.VILLE. 
 
 Q. Major Hurley asked you to act, did he ? A. ISTo, I asked 
 him. 
 
 Q. Tou asked him to get the employment for you. A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And he secured it for you? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Had you acted as auctioneer for the previous sales here ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Only that once ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you sell everything that was offered? A. I believe I 
 did ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you recall what what sold, if anything, other than the 
 furniture of those two rooms ? A. Well, the furniture was all 
 there ; I don't know where it came from. 
 
 Q. It had been removed to the corridor on the first floor? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who paid you ? A. Mr. Ford, I think — no, he or his man 
 that they had here acting as deputy — Foster. 
 
 Q. Simply handed you your fee in cash? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. There was no warrant on the Treasurer, or anything of that 
 sort? A. I believe not. 
 
 Q. What did they pay you, if you happen to recollect? A. Tea. 
 Mr. Corbin — I think I have nothing further to offer 
 upon this subject, and in dismissing it I simply allude 
 to the fact that in the years from 1890 to 1894 substan- 
 tially everything in all parts of the State House, includ- 
 ing the carpets and furniture, was sold, from the library 
 in the roof to the cellar; that in some of the rooms it 
 will appear that the furniture has been replaced twice, 
 that even the safes were sold and new safes brought 
 in to replace them. There is no record what- 
 ever, except what I have read to you, of when or wuat 
 those sales were. What was taken out was replaced at 
 a cost of $120,000 or $125,000, and these three sums 
 that I have mentioned aggregated between $3,000 and 
 $4,000. As to this last sale, which is clearly proved by 
 these witnesses, nothing has ever been returned to the 
 State. The matter seems to have been conducted as if 
 it were a private affair and individuals having it in 
 charge, and not at all as a State matter. 
 
 The proceeds of these sales appear never to have been 
 inquired into, nor audited or examined by anybody, and 
 the money appears to have been taken for the use of 
 the man having charge of the sale, and at the end of 
 each fiscal year he turned in a check which he said was 
 
EDWAKD D. FOX. 311 
 
 for what he had received during the year. That is the 
 record of this performance. It seems to me that it re- 
 quires no comment from me at this time. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Under what authority did he 
 make these sales, or claim a right to make them ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I know of no authority at all of the 
 Superintendent of the State House to dispose of State 
 property. If he can dispose of safes, I don't know why 
 he could not dispose of the State House. It is possible 
 that the Board having charge of the State House, in the 
 exercise of its povper to replace and renew furniture and 
 appliances and fixtures, might order sales, but it does 
 seem to me very clear that whoever sells the State prop- 
 erty should at least leave some record of it behind him. 
 
 Senator Daly — N"o itemized account of what was 
 sold? 
 
 Mr. Corbin^ — No, sir ; the only one that remains in 
 the State House is that which Mr. Connell swears 
 that he recently, at Mr. Ford's request, turned over to 
 him. There is nothing except the entry of a line, three 
 times, in the Treasurer's blotter, to the effect that a cer- 
 tain amount of money was turned in to him. 
 
 Senator Skirm — As I understand, this last amount 
 that Mr. Connell said he rendered to Mr. Ford in Janu- 
 ary, has never been turned in to the State. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Never been turned in at all. I desire 
 to offer some testimony with regard to certain Execu- 
 tive expenses which I have. 
 
 Edward D. Fox, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are a clerk in the Executive offices of the State ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I think you said you had been for some thirty years ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there a telephone in the Governor's office ? A. Yes, sir- 
 
 Q. Paid for by the State? A. Yes, sir ; there was two. 
 
 Q. They were paid for by the State? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are stenographers employed there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Messrs. Knight & Gnichtel have acted in that capacity ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And are paid month by month ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever know of any use of telephone there, or any 
 use of stenographers there, that was not paid for by the State ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
312 EXECUTIVE EXPENSES. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I call the attention of the Committee ta 
 some schedules that I made up from the Treasurer's 
 report, from the printed book, which anybody can see, 
 but the significance of which does not always appear 
 until it is carefully examined. I have, for the purpose 
 of comparison, made some figures here with regard to 
 the last three Executive administrations — Governor 
 Green's, Governor Abbett's and Governor Werts' — and 
 I have got from the Comptroller's ofG.ce the vouchers 
 from the Postofiice Department for postage for one thing. 
 
 In Governor Green's administration, beginning in 
 1887, the record was this : Mr. Robert S. Green, Jr., 
 was private secretary of the Governor, having charge 
 of this matter. The postage in 1887 was $285 ; in 1888, 
 $405, in 1889, $815, being an average for the three 
 years of $501. There were no other incidental expenses 
 during that administration. The Committee will note 
 that — no incidental expenses of any kind, whatever. It 
 was a total cf $1,500 for the entire administration. 
 
 Under the next administration, of Mr. Leon Abbett, 
 Jr., private secretary, postage in 1890, $692 ; in 1891, 
 $860 ; in 1892, $990, an average of $847, and Mr. Abbett 
 put in bills for what were called " incidental expenses " 
 for telephone and stenographer, the first year $515.52; 
 the second year $1,009.97, and the third year $2,637.07, 
 making an average of $1,887 per year. 
 
 Under the present administration of Governor Werts, 
 the second year of which is just completed, Mr. John S. 
 McMaster, Private Secretary ; postage, first year, $380 ; 
 second year, $401 ; third year, $390, or considerable 
 less than half of the previous administration. 
 
 The incidental expenses for the first year, charged up 
 in bills with considerable detail, for messenger service 
 and telephone bills and telegraph bills in Jersey City ; 
 first year, $135, and for the second year, $80, making 
 an average of $107 as against an average ot $1,387 of 
 the previous administration. 
 
 The bills are here. They are in most part without 
 any items at all. There are seven bills by Leon Abbett, 
 Jr., to the State, approved by the Governor, charged as 
 traveling expenses, stenographers and telephone expen- 
 ses. I desire to have the Committee look them over. 
 They are bills during the years 1890, 1891 and 1892. 
 These bills were brought to my attention by certain 
 
EXECUTIVE EXPENSES. 313 
 
 State officers as being entirely unique and unusual, and 
 I deemed it my duty, as they were brought to my atten- 
 tion, to offer them for the inspection ot the Committee. 
 
 The Treasurer's report shows a payment every month 
 from the Governor's office of |250 to $800 for stenog- 
 raphers' bills. I am at a loss to know where the 
 services were that did not go in these bills. They 
 amounted for the last year to $2,687, and with about a 
 thousand dollars addition for postage, making $8,600 
 altogether. I submit for the inspection ot the Com- 
 mittee a schedule which I have made up also from the 
 bills which have betn brought to rny attention by 
 certain State House officers regarding this same admin- 
 istration of the Private Secretary of the Governor, from 
 January, 1890, to January, 1893. 
 
 In 1890 the Private Secretary of the Governor was 
 paid the usual salary of $2,000; incidentals, $515.52; as 
 counsel to the Dairy Commission, $213.85 ; total, 
 $2,729.37. 
 
 The second year the salary was $2,000, the incident- 
 als, $1,009.97 ; counsel in the matter of rebuilding the 
 Assembly Chamber, |90, and as counsel to the Dairy 
 Commissioners, $1,515.47; making a total of $4,615.44. 
 
 The third year the salary was $2,000 ; incidentals, 
 $2,637.07; rebuilding the Assembly Chamber, $75; 
 Sinking Fund Commissioners, services outside of costs, 
 $238.75; counsel for Dairy Commissioner, $1,205.06, 
 making a total of $6,155.88. 
 
 Leon Abbbtt, Jr., Private Secretary to Governor. 
 January 21st, 1890, to January 17th, 1893. 
 
 Salary as Rebuilding Sinking 
 
 Private Incidentals. Assembly Fund Dairy 
 
 Secretary. Chamber. Commis'ers. Commis'er. 
 
 1890 $2,000 $515 52 $213 85 
 
 1891 2,000 1,009 97 $90 00 1,515 47 
 
 1892 2,000 2,637 07 75 00 $238 75 1,205 06 
 
 S6,000 $4,162 56 $165 00 $238 75 $2,934 38 
 
 First year, total, $2,729.37; second year, $4,615.44; 
 third year, $6,155.88. Grand total, $13,500.69. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to draw the attention of the 
 Committee to one other matter, not with any view of 
 
314 JOHN M. BONNELL. 
 
 commenting unfavorably upon the expenditure ; that is, 
 not suggesting anything improper in the expenditure 
 except extravagance, which is so obvious from reading 
 the figures. It is comparatively a small matter, and yet 
 I think it should be drawn to the attention of the Com- 
 mittee ; that is, a matter of the State House grounds. 
 I will ask Mr. Bonnell, who has already been called, 
 a question or two with reference to it first. 
 
 John M. Bonnell, recalled. 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. Have you a gardener for taking charge of the grounds in 
 the employ of the St te ? A. Yes, sir ; one. 
 
 Q. He is regularly upon the pay roll, is he not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And in the summer when the grass is to be cut and other 
 work done do the other laborers here assist him ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There are several laborers around the State House, are there 
 not, who are at work ? A. Yes, sir ; cleaning the offices, and 
 after they are through there, put on the grounds cutting grass. 
 Q. They assist him, under his charge ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In 1890 the State paid for the grass 
 seed and flowers and such things, $431 ; in 1891, $586; 
 in 1892, 1843 ; grass seed and flowers and posies, 1893, 
 $1,938; in the spring of 1894, $1,390. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It isn't on a lot as big as a farm 
 either. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is what we see ; I think the lot is 265 
 feet wide, and I think about 160 of it is occupied by the 
 building in connection. These flowers and seeds seem 
 to be purchased from C. Ribsam & Sons ; I don't sug- 
 gest the slightest impropriety about the bills on their 
 behalf. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — On the contrary, I understand 
 that they positively refused to submit to any division. 
 Mr. Corbin — I think Messrs. Ribsara & Sons' bill is 
 entirely correct. 
 
 Senator Skirm — They would make no bill but what 
 was straight. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have not thought it worth while to go 
 into the details, but there are bills here for fertilizers and 
 labor and grading, &c. I think I have already offered a 
 batch of some forty bills for grading, in one shape or 
 another, of Major Hurley, and I think it is indicative of 
 a sort of extravagance that might be remedied, possibly, 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 315 
 
 and the Committee's attention ought to be drawn to it. 
 I will not dwell on that any further. 
 
 I desire to refer to eight bills for painting in the halls 
 and difierent rooms of the State House, rendered by 
 Messrs. H. Kinnard & Co., of N'ewark, amounting to 
 $13,784.20; one of them is for painting this room, 
 |2,916 ; others are for painting the old part of the Cap- 
 itol ; I think there are two for painting the Superin- 
 tendent's office and those in its neighborhood, the work 
 having been done twice in the last three or four years. 
 
 Hugh Kinnard, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. I reside at 755 High street, 
 llfewark. 
 
 Q. Are you a member of the firm of H. Kinnard & Sons? 
 A. No, sir ; I am the senior partner of H. Kinnard & Co. 
 
 Q. Did you do painting in the State House? A. I did, sir. 
 
 Q. "Who employed you to do it? A. Mr. Ford, the Superin- 
 tendent, I done the bulk of my business with. 
 
 Q. Did anybody else employ you to do any? A. "Well, yes; 
 Grovernor Abbett consulted me about this room, this Senate 
 Chamber, and the ante-rooms and the adjoining rooms, about the 
 designing, &c. I submitted to him a paper sketch of the design 
 for this room before we commenced it ; T had two interviews 
 with the Governor, one in connection with Mr. Ford and another 
 one one morning here in the room. 
 
 Q. Have you brought your books in answer to the subpcena ? 
 A. I have, sir. 
 
 Q. I would like to see the books showing the accounts with 
 the State. "Was this work done by contract or by days' work ? 
 A. "Well, the bulk of it was done by days' work, sir; I estimated 
 on it, but they made changes and finally turned it into days' 
 work. 
 
 Q. There was one little contract for some exterior work of 
 $488, was there not? A. If my memory serves me right, that 
 was for the exterior work in the new building, the exterior wood 
 and iron work. 
 
 Q. That was the only one that was done by contract, was it 
 not? A. That is my recollection now; my memory doesn't 
 carry me. 
 
 Q. "When you do work of this sort, in what book do you enter 
 it first ? A. We generally enter it first in the day book. 
 
,316 HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 Q. Will this work be found entered in your day book 1 A. 1 
 think it will ; I haven't had time to go over it. 
 
 Q. And from your day book to what book do you carry it? 
 A. To the journal. 
 
 Q. And thence where ? A. Grenerally to the ledger. 
 
 Q. Will the accounts with the State from 1890 to 1894 be 
 found in these books? A. I think they will, sir; I couldn't 
 answer positively, because I don't keep the books myself; I had 
 a bookkeeper. 
 
 Q. It should be all here ? A. It should be ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you your cash books? A. My cash books? 
 
 Q. Yes? A. Well, those are my cash books. 
 
 Q. Are those all the cash books you keep ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Keep no larger book into which the cash is carried? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where do you keep your account with the bank? A. With 
 the Newark National Banking Company. 
 
 Q. No; but in what book does it appear ; in which one of your 
 books does it appear? A. It appears, in the first place, on the 
 stubs of the check book and the checks. 
 
 Q. That is all? A. That is all. 
 
 Q. Is there any cash account in your ledger? A. Largely so; 
 yes, sir; the cash originally received is generally put in the jour- 
 nal and ledger. 
 
 Q. What book do you go to to find out the state of your cash 
 at any given time t A. 1 generally go to my bank book. 
 
 Q. Is there any other book among these where you can find 
 it? A. No, sir; we don't keep books — we don't keep double 
 entry books; you know our books — 
 
 Q. That is your bank balance, isn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, the state of your cash account is what I wanted to 
 get at — where do you find that? A. The state of my cash? 
 
 Q. Yes ? A. In my cash book, sir ; I have a debtor and 
 credit. 
 
 Q. Do these two, one follow the other, or are they both used 
 at the same time ? A. One follows the other. 
 
 Q. A debit and credit, both is in the cash book, is it? A. 
 Yes, sir ; there is credit and there is a debit, so I get the balance 
 there from the cash at all times ; then on the stub of my check 
 book — 
 
 Q. I am not after your system of keeping books ; I am only 
 trying to learn — I have never seen the inside of the books before. 
 A. You see, there is my balance. 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 317 
 
 Q. How often do you balance the cash book ? J. At the bot- 
 tom of every page, carry it forward, which it will show there, I 
 think, sir. 
 
 Q. Are the amounts which you pay by check transferred to 
 the cash book ? A. In some cases, yes, sir, largely so. 
 
 Q. Well, are the checks which you draw and pay out not all 
 posted to your cash book ? A. No, sir ; they are simply marked 
 ou the stub of the check book. 
 
 §. Then you have to resort to your check book as well to find 
 out your real cash balance, do you not 1 A. \ do, sir. 
 
 Q. "Who keeps your books ? A. This young man ; Van- 
 Houten keeps them at present. 
 
 Q. He is your bookkeper? A. He is at present; yes, sir. 
 
 ^. And has been for how long? A. Since the second week 
 in November. 
 
 Q. Do you ca.rry any account with your bank in the ledger ? 
 
 A. No, sir; none whatever. 
 
 Q. Nor with cash ? A . No, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you checks of the State to H. Kinnard & Co., to- 
 gether with the warrants attached to each. Look at these checks 
 Hnd warrants as I show them to you and see whether they are 
 endorsed correctly, by you or some member of your firm, and 
 whether you received that first check, dated January 29th, 1890, 
 $1,191.01. A. Yes, sir; that is correctly endorsed on the check 
 by me, and also receipted for the warrant, firm signature done 
 by me. 
 
 The warrant last referred to is marked " Exhibit 
 179" and the check " 180." 
 
 Q. Look at check dated. January 19th, 1891, $2,792, with the 
 warrant. A. Yes, sir; that is endorsed the same, by me. 
 
 Warrant marked "Exhibit 181," check "Exhibit 
 182." 
 
 Q,. Look at check dated December 27th, 1892, for $1,836.75, 
 with the warrant. A. Endorsed by me, sir, for the firm. 
 Warrant marked " Exhibit 183," check " 184." 
 
 q. Look at check dated January 24th, 1893, $258, with the 
 warrant ? A. The warrant is endorsed by my partner, Martin, 
 and the chock is endorsed by me. 
 
 Warrant marked "Exhibit 185," check "186." 
 
 Q. Look at the check dated June 13th, 1893, $208.35, with 
 the warrant? A. That is endorsed by Martin, the warrant, and 
 the check is endorsed by me. 
 
 Warrant marked "Exhibit 187," check "188." 
 
318 HUGH KINNAED. 
 
 Q. Look at check dated July 11th, for 1893, for $319.25, with 
 warrant? A. That is endorsed, the warrant by Mr. Martin and 
 the cheek by me. 
 
 Warrant marked "Exhibit 189," check "190." 
 
 Q. Look at check tor $4,262.41, dated January 9th, 1894, and 
 the warrant ? A. The warrant ia endorsed by Martin and the 
 check by me for the Company. 
 
 Warrant marked "Exhibit 191," check "192." 
 
 Q. Look at check for the Senate Chamber painting, dated 
 January 18th, 1893, for $2,916.78 with warrant? A. Warrant 
 endorsed by Martin, check by me. 
 
 Warrant marked " Exhibit 193," check " 194." 
 
 Q. Martin is your partner? A. Yes, sir; he was. 
 
 Q. What is the name of this gentleman, your present book- 
 keeper? A. Thomas Van Houten. 
 
 Q. Who kept your books before him? A. Mr. Merrick 
 Martin. 
 
 Q. Eor how long? A. Since 1889. 
 
 Q. In making up your bills against the State, who fixed the 
 prices ? A. Well, he did largely ; he kept the books ; he was 
 the practical man in the business. 
 
 Q. Who was that ? A. Mr. Merrick Martin. 
 
 Q. He was the one who was your partner ? A. Yes, sir ? 
 
 Q. In obtaining this work from the State and in your dealings 
 with the State, however, you personally took charge of it, did 
 you not? A. I did, sir, personally; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I observe that most of these warrants are signed by you ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you go to Trenton at the time payment was due, or 
 were the warrants sent to you at Newark? A. The warrants 
 were generally sent to us at N"ewark, sir ; yes, sir, they were all 
 sent, if my memory is right. 
 
 Q. To whom did you give bills when you made them out? 
 A. We sent them to the Superintendent of the State House, Mr. 
 Ford. 
 
 Q. And then you received your warrant? A. Yes, sir; we 
 received our warrant. 
 
 Q. Did you send them to him at Newark, or at Trenton ? A. 
 Sent them here to the Capitol, Trenton. 
 
 Q. Did Martin and you have any consultation as to what the 
 price should be in making up your bills ? A. Well, in some 
 cases I think we did ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In others one of you alone dictated ? A. He made the bills 
 according to the prices we charged other parties. 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 319 
 
 Q. When did Mr. Martin cease to be your partner? A. Last 
 November. 
 
 Q. He was your partner then during the entire period of your 
 dealings with the State ? A. He was, sir ; he was a partner inso- 
 much as he received a stationed salary and an interest on the 
 business done after the expense of the business was paid ; he had 
 no capital invested in the business. 
 
 Q. How did you first come to secure a contract with the State 
 in this painting. A. I was called on by Mr. Ford, then the 
 Superintendent, and asked to make an estimate on decorating the 
 court room, on that first bill. 
 
 Q. Your first bill was in January, 1890 ? A. My memory puts 
 that not the first bill— the first bill was $1,191.01. 
 
 Senator Daly — That was paid by whom ? Who was 
 Comptroller and Treasurer then? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Treasurer was John J. Tofiey, the 
 Comptroller was E. J. Anderson. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Who was the Custodian at that time? 
 Mr. Corbin — B. J. Ford was Superintendent of the 
 State House. 
 
 Witness — As I was going to remark, I was called on 
 in October, 1889, by Mr. Ford and asked for an esti- 
 mate on the Court of Appeals room, and I made him 
 an estimate, but I didn't retain a copy of it, but my 
 recollection is that tlie estimate — 
 Q. That was not what I asked you. I asked you how you 
 came first to be employed? A. Mr. Ford waited on me and 
 asked me to come here. 
 
 Q. Waited on you in Newark ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Had you been acquainted with him before ? A. Yes, I 
 have known him ever since I have known anybody. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Committee are all anxious 
 to know what authority Mr. Ford had to make this con- 
 tract for this work done at that time. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This first bill is for painting in the 
 rooms of the Court of Chancery and hall, and Grover- 
 nor's private rooms, and Senate and Assembly Bill 
 rooms, &c. 
 
 Witness — Kalsomining and painting walls. 
 Mr. Corbin — At that time Mr. Ford was Superinten- 
 tendent, so called, of the State House, and was, doubt- 
 less, acting under the statute passed in 1889, under 
 which he was appointed. The duties incumbent upon 
 him under that act, which is Chapter 184 of the Laws 
 
320 HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 of 1889, were to generally supervise the State House 
 and grounds, and preserve them from injury, and to 
 provide for their being kept in proper order, and to 
 take care that they should be warmed, swept, cleaned 
 and ventilated, and to employ as many assistants as 
 might be necessary, at such prices as the Governor, At- 
 torney-General and State Treasurer should appove — that 
 is the whole of it. 
 
 Senator Daly — That is all the power he had. That is 
 no power to contract these debts ; none whatever ; the 
 Treasurer and the Comptroller had no business to pay 
 it. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Isn't that so? 
 
 Mr. Cor bin — It raises an interesting question. That 
 law that I have just quoted, together with the joint 
 resolution of 1846, is all the law there is on the subject. 
 The joint resolution of 1816 charges the State Treas- 
 urer with the custody of the building and grounds, and 
 he continued in the custody of them until 1889, when 
 this law was passed under which the Superintendent 
 was put in charge. His powers were such as I have 
 read. 
 
 Chairma:! Voorhees — And when there was the slight- 
 est doubt under the resolution of 1846 they always ran 
 to the Attorney-General ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have no further opinions of the At- 
 torney-General except what I have put in. But to 
 answer the question, practically from the time the 
 Superintendent took charge in 1889 he seems to have 
 taken full charge, and nobody seams to have questioned 
 his doing anything with the State House that could be 
 done with it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And therefore all his bills on this 
 work were certified to by the Treasurer and Comp- 
 troller. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Necessarily so in the signing of the 
 warrant and check. There seems to have been some 
 doubt in the minds of the State officials in this early 
 time in 1890, as I find these bills are certified to by the 
 Superintendent and Treasurer. The Treasurer had 
 been for forty years the custodian of the State House 
 and in the habit of certifying, and they are, in fact, cer- 
 tified to by the Treasurer as well as the Superintendent. 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 321 
 
 Q. Well, after that, when work was desired at the State House, 
 Mr. Ford sent you word, did he? A. Mr. Ford sent me word; 
 yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you did what was done? A. Yes, sir ; according to 
 those bills. 
 
 Q. Now, as to the labor expended upon the State House, who 
 kept the record of that, and where was it kept ? A. Well, I was 
 here from one to two, generally two days a week, and I bad a 
 man in charge that looked after the men here, who kept the time 
 and rendered me an account of it when I come here ; I used to 
 gteueraily come here Tuesdays and Fridays. 
 
 Q. Did he keep a time-book ? A. Well, he kept a time-book 
 in bis pocket which contained his time. 
 
 Q. Have you got it? A. I haven't, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you any time-books here? A. Yes, sir; I have all 
 my time-books here ; they are all the time-books I kept. 
 
 Q. I see, by referring to the account with the State, on page 
 436 of your ledger, that there are numerous charges simply to 
 merchandise, &c., and a multitude of them seem to be just an 
 even $20 ? A. Well, that is a number of men working certain 
 days — $3.50 a day. 
 
 Q. That is not merchandise, but really labor, is it? A. That 
 is labor; no doubt that is where there has been no material 
 charge ; we weighed the material here and charged it in the 
 various works. 
 
 Q. Don't get on too fast ; we will only tangle ourselves up ; let 
 us take one thing at a time. When was the material charged 
 up? A. At various times, as it was used. 
 
 Q. How often ? A. Oh, well, we had no special time ; a man 
 kept account of it, and we had a scale here and weighed the 
 material. 
 
 Q. Can't you answer any closer than that; once a month, or 
 once a week? A. The book will show; sometimes once a month 
 — not once a month ; oftener than once a month ; sometimes 
 once a week, or two or three times. 
 
 Q. Have you any ledger following this ledger which I have in 
 hand ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. This account seems to be tranferred from page 436 to page 
 298; and you lump from December, 1890, to December, 1892; 
 and in the year 1892 you simply have one lump sum charged for 
 the entire bill. Where will I find the details ? ^. I presume 
 you will find it in the day book. 
 
 Q. Not the journal ? A. Well, I won't say ; I think it is pos- 
 sibly in the journal; I have had no opportunity to look over it. 
 
 21 gH 
 
322 HUGH KINNAED. 
 
 0.. Is your former partner, Mr. Maitin, here? A. Fo, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will not weary the Committee with an 
 examination of the books now. It will take too long. 
 The first part of the account seems to be in detail, small 
 items from day to day, and later on simply a transfer to 
 some other book, so that it will require a little examina- 
 tion to understand the course of the bookkeeping. 
 
 Q. Did anybody else have anything to say as to what prices 
 should be charged except you and Mr. Martin? A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. You deposited all these checks yon got from the State to 
 the credit of your firm in your bank account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. Which is the Newark Banking Company ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 my check books will show it. 
 
 Q. Your check books and checks are here, are they? A. Yes, 
 sir, I believe they are ; all I could get together since four o'clock 
 yesterday afternoon. 
 
 Q. If you find anything else that bears upon it will you pro- 
 duce it? A. There is one small job book we couldn't find; we 
 hunted for it up until nine o'clock last evening and again this 
 morning — a small job book that refers to some of the charges; 
 you will find the credits all in that cash book ; that I looked 
 over this morning. 
 
 §. And it covers the entire period asked for? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. After your bills were made out did you go over them at all 
 with Mr. Ford ? A. ISTever, sir. 
 
 5. Or did anybody else on behalf of the State? A. Never,^ 
 excepting with my partner. 
 
 Q. But no one on behalf of the State ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Were they always approved as you sent them down, with- 
 out any cavil or question? A. To the best of my recollection, 
 every time. 
 
 Q. Every bill went through? A. Every bill went through. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 ^. Do I understand this gentleman to say that this work, 
 aggregating §1.3,000 or $14,000, was all done without any bids or 
 invitation of bids or proposals; do I understand that? A. No, 
 sir, I didn't say that; I didn't mean to if I did. 
 
 ^. I wanted to know that? A. I understood Mr. Ford, for 
 instance, when he asked me to bid on this Senate Chamber and 
 all the adjoining ante-rooms, the President's room and all the 
 rooms back here, all those side rooms, repainting and graining of 
 all this wood work in the front halls and all the front rooms, which 
 is what embraced the Senate Chamber — the Senate Chamber is 
 
HUGH KINNARD. 323 
 
 only a portion of this work — when he solicited me to make a bid 
 for it he solicited bids for that, and then eventually throwed it 
 into day's work. 
 
 Q. Id other words, he wanted to get an estimate of the probable 
 cost ? A. Yes, sir ; he told me he had to consult the Governor, 
 the Comptroller and the Treasurer, and he wanted an estimate on 
 this work. 
 
 Q. On the Senate Chamber ? A. Yes, sir; with all the adjoin- 
 ing rooms. 
 
 Q. "When you were at that wing in which the Superintendent's 
 office was were there any bids put in for that? A. ISTot to my 
 recollection. 
 
 Q. You painted that twice, didn't you ? A. Yes, sir ; he 
 altered it and there was new walls put in. 
 
 Q. You painted it twice two years apart ? A. Yes, sir. As I 
 was going to say in answer to your question, I made a bid for 
 this work ; then he changed the plans and had me submit that, 
 as I said here a moment ago, to the Governor, which I had two 
 interviews with the Governor with regard to decorating this 
 Senate Chamber and the adjoining rooms; then he would inter- 
 fere with my men ; he would take my men, for instance, off of 
 this work and put them on other work, and it was impossible to 
 keep the work straight, and he finally threw the work into days 
 work; the trouble was, we were working all over the building. 
 We have done the entire interior of this old State House, except- 
 ing the Governor's main reception room and the two rooms on 
 the east side, and what is known as the Old Library room, on 
 the second floor, towards the river here ; we have been all 
 through this entire building. 
 
 Q. Then it was almost impossible to make an estimate that 
 would cover it before the work was done, what the cost would 
 be? A. Well, it was — if I didn't know just what I was going 
 to do, sir ; I can spend a thousand dollars on this room and I 
 can spend five thousand dollars and give you value received in 
 proportion to the amount of decoration ; it is a question of how 
 much you want to spend ; that is the question I ask a man when 
 he asks me to make an estimate for decorating a room or public 
 hall, I say " how do you want it done? " 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Is it not true that your different works done for the State 
 were all done at separate times; with the exception of the time 
 you were working on this Chamber, you did do some other 
 work in the Governor's room and the corridors, &o.? A . Yes, 
 sir. 
 
324 HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 Q. The other jobs were all separate? A. Not exactly. 
 
 (^. Months apart, weren't they; don't your bills show that? 
 A. My bills has specified that as near as I can, but I couldn't 
 give you the detail. 
 
 Q. Your first bill was January, 1890? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Second bill, January, 1891 ? A.. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Third bill was December, 1892; then came two bills, when 
 you did the iSenate Chamber; quite a number of bills in 1893; 
 in 1893 you rendered four bills ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You had finished the Senate Chamber about January, 1893' 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, most of your works were divided into different times, 
 with the exception of when you were working here, when you 
 were working in the Senate Chamber, they did call you off to 
 other parts of the building? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But in the other works you were not diverted, were you, 
 by anybody ? A. Yts, sir; our men were for different things; 
 for instance, we done the Governor's private room. 
 
 §. That was done while you were doing this? A. Yes, sir; 
 the men were taken off of that, and taken oft" to paint urns out 
 in the yard and various other things, too numerous for me to 
 mention at this time. 
 
 Q. Now look at these bills and tell me in whose handwriting 
 they are, the first bill for $1,191.01, January, 1890? That is in 
 Mr. Martin's handwriting, my partner. 
 
 Bill offered in evidence and marked "Exhibit 195." 
 
 q. Look at bill of January, 1891, for $2,792.05? A. That is 
 also in Mr. Martin's handwriting. 
 Marked "Exhibit 196." 
 
 Q. Look at bill of December, 1892, consisting of three bills, 
 one for $488, one for $873.70, one for $974.65. In whose hand- 
 writing are those ? A. Those are all in Mr. Martin's handwriting. 
 Marked "Exhibit" 197." 
 
 Q. Also bill for Senate Chamber work, amounting to $2,916,- 
 78? A. That is in his handwriting. 
 Marked "Exhibit 198." 
 
 Q. Also the bill of January, 1893, for $258, Governor's room, 
 &c. ? A. That is also in his handwriting. 
 Marked "Exhibit 199." 
 
 q. Also bill for $208 for picture-molding, kc, June, 1893? 
 A. That is also in Martin's handwriting. 
 Marked " Exhibit 200." 
 
 q. Also bill of June 27th, 1893, $319.25. A. That is also in 
 Martin's handwriting. 
 
HKNllY J. BENNETT. 325 
 
 Marked " Exhibit 201." 
 
 Mr. Corbia — There is one bill which I havea't here 
 at the moment, January, 1894, $4,262 ; I will produce 
 it later. 
 
 Marked " Exhibit 202." 
 
 Henry J. Bennett sworn. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Before proceeding with this 
 witness let me ask whether or not these expenditures 
 were contracted by the Capitol Commission, so called ? 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir ; with the possible exception of 
 the bill which is now missing. There is a bill for the 
 exterior iron and wood work of the front part that I 
 think was. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That was the one that was done 
 under contract; the painting done on the iron work and 
 in front of the new Capitol was done under the Capitol 
 Commission authority. 
 
 Mr. Kinnard — I received my orders from Mr. Ford. 
 Mr. Corbin — August 8th, 1892, Mr. Kinnard sent an 
 estimate to Ford for painting all the windows, window- 
 caps and cornices of the new front building of the State 
 House, two good coats of paint, for $488 ; that was ob- 
 viously a repainting ; the building was built before that, 
 and that was approved by Mr. Ford and by Mr. Gray, 
 State Treasurer, and paid out of the State House ex- 
 penses ; it was not charged to capitol construction at all, 
 and did not go before that Committee. 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Trenton, N. J. 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Master painter. 
 Q. How long have you been engaged in that occupation? A. 
 Since February 17th, 1846. 
 
 Q. Have you ever painted the State House, or any parts of it ? 
 A. I have. 
 
 Q. More than once have you been engaged here ? A. Twice. 
 Q. You are familiar with the building, are you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. When the new front of the State House was complete did 
 you have anything to do with that? A. I did. 
 Q. What? A. I had the contract for painting it. 
 Q. Inside and out ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And did you paint it ? A. 1 did, sir. 
 Q. What other work were you engaged to do about the State 
 House? A. I had an extra bill for painting the window caps ; 
 when I took the contract, or after I had taken the contract for 
 
326 HENRY J. BENJsETT. 
 
 the State House, it was put on the old addition to harmonize 
 with the new. 
 
 Q. The window caps of the old addition ? A. Yes, sir ; on the 
 court rooms, on each one, north and south. 
 
 Q. You painted that when the work was new, for the first 
 time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Anything else included in that employment. A. I painted 
 all the woodwork on the exterior, all the ironwork on the exterior, 
 all the ironwork on the dome, under my contract, with the finish- 
 ing of the interior by filling and finishing with hard oil finish, 
 come under my first contract, $2,998.80. 
 
 Q. I show you these seven bills of Hugh Kinnard & Co., from 
 " Exhibit 195 to 201." Have you examined these bills? A. I 
 have, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you gone over the State House to make examinations 
 and measurements ? J^. I have, sir. 
 
 Q. With reference to the work. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q,. Is it a part of your business to estimate upon the value of 
 work? A. I never have done it for the Court before; I never 
 was brought into court, but I do that for my livelihood. 
 
 Q. Do you make estimates and take contracts to do painting 
 work ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And do you do work by day's work, also — buildings ?, A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are you accustomed to render bills for such work? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I draw your attention to this bill of December, 1895, " Ex- 
 hibit 195," on which I see no dates whatever. A. I never made 
 out bills that way. 
 
 Q. Did you ever see a painter's bill made out like that? A. 
 ITo, sir ; I was always required to itemize them, every account I 
 ever had for the State of New Jersey ; always required to itemize 
 them, day and date. 
 
 Q. From what do you get at the number of days work done 
 in a job ; how do you find out how many days work? A. That 
 we have to trust to the laborer. 
 
 §. You have time books, don't you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your foreman keep time books? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. You make it up from that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But you put down the date and then state the number of 
 days work done on that date? A. Yes, sir; everyday, each 
 man. 
 
 Q. Look at this first bill for the rooms of the Court of Chan- 
 cery and the hall, the Governor's private rooms, and the Senate 
 
HENEY J. BENNETT. 327 
 
 and Assembly Bill-rooms, done in 1890, which, of course, means 
 the old Assembly Bill-room before the room was cut down. 
 Have you gone over these items with a view of looking at the 
 items charged? A. Yes, air. 
 
 Q. Take this bill, and look at these different items and the 
 prices charged here, and tell me what are the prices that are 
 charged in your trade for such items? A. I find 1,305 pounds 
 of mixed paint at 15 cents per pound, $195.75 ; I find 145 days' 
 labor at $3.50 per day. 
 
 Q. What is the price charged for that sort of labor ? A, $3 
 for me. 
 
 Q. When you say three dollars charged for it, you mean after 
 adding your own profit ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. IS'ow, I find here all sorts of colors : French, carmine, 
 cobalt blue, chrome yellow, coach green, and all sorts of items 
 charged here — a very considerable sum of money — don't those 
 go into the paint as mixed paint ? A. Yes, eir, 
 
 §. Then, if you have charged the mixed paint there at 15 cents, 
 a,nd again charged them down here a separate price, haven't you 
 charged twice ? A. Doubled up. 
 
 Q. What is the price of white lead? A. I can buy it now for 
 about six and a half cents. 
 
 Q_. In 1890 ? A. About six cents. 
 
 Q. After putting these colors in the mixed paints and the oil 
 and the dryers, then you charge what? A. Then we charge 
 fifteen cents. 
 
 Q. That is, including all the painter's profits? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Pretty good profits? A. Satisfied with it. 
 
 <^. After you have added to this six-cent lead your colors and 
 charged fifteen cents a pound, you have got a profit which is 
 satisfactory to you ? A. Perfectly. 
 
 Q. Do you add more to it for the different colors that went in 
 to make up that mixed paint ? No. 
 
 Q. Is that proper? A. It would not be for me. 
 
 <^. Isn't it a duplicate charge ? A. Certainly, sir. 
 
 Senator Daly — If this bill had been scrutinized by 
 the people in authority, do you think they could have 
 discovered that? 
 
 A. The building is put in tints, and undoubtedly the man had 
 to use those tints here to make these tints with, umber, siennas 
 and blues, and so on ; he couldn't have made it with pure white 
 lead and linseed oil. 
 
 Q. You have to use that to make mixed paint ? A. We want 
 that to make mixed paint ; yes, sir. 
 
328 HENRY J. BENNETT. 
 
 §. Look at bill of January, 1891, the first item in it is^ 
 exterior, all the exterior wood and iron work of the old building, 
 including the large brick chimney of the boiler-house ; that is 
 figured up at $1,494; have you done that same work? A. I 
 did, sir. 
 
 Q. And you did it when the work was new, as I understand 
 you ? A. Yes, sir ; on the new bricks. 
 
 Q. What did you charge the State for doing that same work ? 
 A. I got $175 for doing the stack, and I got $633.50 for doing all 
 the rest of the wood work. 
 
 Q. And the brick were then new? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the window caps were new when you painted them ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Which cost the most to paint, brick when it is new, or give 
 it a second coat by and by ? A. 1 had to give it three coats, and 
 scrape all the rough oft. 
 
 Q. Your bill was 800 and odd dollars doing it when it was 
 new? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What would be a fair bill for doing that again? A. One- 
 third, take off one coat. 
 
 Q. Then a fair bill to put two coats on afterwards would be 
 two-thirds of $800 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Or something short of $600? A. I would like to have it. 
 
 Q. I show you a quantity of paint charged there for that work, 
 2,993 pounds, or about a ton and a half; what do you say about 
 that ? ^. I don't think that I could put it on with a paint brush ; 
 I think I would have to put it on with a trowel. 
 
 Q. What do you say to 298 days' labor for touching up those 
 window caps ? A. It isn't the kind of men I hire. 
 
 Q. How many days' labor did it take you to do it with three 
 coats of paint? A. I will do it with 100 days and take a con- 
 tract from the State to-morrow and give a bond for it. 
 
 Q. Look at the bill of December, 1892, which consists of 
 three bills ; the first item is $488 for painting windows, frames, 
 caps and deck cornice of the new front part of the building ; you 
 have painted that yourselt ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you made an estimate of what was a fair price for 
 that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (J. What is it? A. 1 will do it for $200. 
 
 Q. Does that afford you a fair profit? A. Yes, sir; I don't 
 work without I get it. 
 
 Q. Look at the next bill on this voucher for extra work for 
 dome and deck work, bridge, lamps, &c., $873; do you know 
 
HENRY J. BENNETT. 329 
 
 what that is? A. It is this little cap that comes around the big 
 dome there, a little piece of ironwork that passes around there. 
 
 Q. 573 pounds of paint and 82 days' labor; what do you say 
 to that? A. I don't know how they could get it there; I would 
 likn to have it for a good deal less. 
 
 Q. How many days' labor would be fair for such a job as that? 
 A. I completed the whole of that work, with the interior of the 
 new building, in 333 days. 
 
 Q. And they have 82 days' labor charged on here for that? 
 A. Just going around the cornice and window frames and a little 
 iron deck that strikes here as you start from the base of the 
 dome. 
 
 Q. You did the whole building new in 333 days' work ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; including the dome. 
 
 Q. What would you be willing to estimate and contract and 
 do the work on that bill for 1 A. 1 got two dollars apiece for 
 doing the lamp-posts when I done them. 
 
 Q. How many of them were there? A. I think it is eight; I 
 won't be positive. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What are they charged at there ? A. 
 573 pounds of paint, 15 cents a pound, $85.95, 82 days' work; 
 that includes, I understand, this little deck work that goes around 
 the dome, that iron work, and this little bridge down here below 
 here, the little iron bridge across the water power. Our estimate 
 is $7,656 against $9,323.44. 
 
 Q. How much have you added for profit, how much per cent? 
 A. $380 profit ; I do it by $3 a day or 60 cents a square yard. 
 
 Q. You have got your paint figured there at 15 cents a pound ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact, haven't you got about 50 per cent, 
 profit in there on the actual cost to you ? A. Ninety per cent. 
 
 Q. In your estimate then of $7,000 you have added to the 
 actual cost to you 90 per cent ? A. Yes, sir ; we can hire decora- 
 tors here at $2 50 instead of $3.50, and we don't get $4 a day for 
 grainers. 
 
 . Can you tell me what the actual cost of this work is, leave 
 out all questions of profit and we will figure that ; what would the 
 actual cost be to you to do this work ? A. That is what I say 
 we will take that contract for, $7,656. 
 
 Q. In that there is a profit of 90 per cent. ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In other words, the actual cost to you to do the whole 
 thing would be about $4,000? A. Yes, sir; this was done all 
 over the old work ; it ain't like going over three-coat work ; it is 
 all done over old work; it was done betore. 
 
330 L. A. AEVIN BEROD. 
 
 Q. I show you " Exhibit 201," being bill for $319.25, 1490 
 pounds metallic paint, 12J cents, 38 days labor at $3.50.. What 
 do you get for metallic paint "! A. 1 get for dry metallic paint, 
 mixed, 7J cents; I get for it, ground in oil, 8J cents — mixed 
 with oil and turpentine. 
 
 Q. What do you say for 38 days' labor for painting that roof ? 
 A. They can't paint tin roofs with my men. 
 
 Q. Have you painted the roofs here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is your estimate on that job ? A. A cent a foot, and 
 evurything furnished. 
 
 Q. What does that come up to? ^.$267. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The largest bill of all has been for the 
 moment mislaid. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Were you ever invited by Mr. Ford, 
 or auy other State officer, to make proposals or to make bids on 
 this work ? A. ISo, sir ; I was informed by Mr. Ford when he 
 first came here that I was out, that was all ; Mr. Ford and me 
 were old friends together for a good many years, but he informed 
 me, " Harry, you ain't got no pull now ; I will have to leave you 
 out." That is all Mr. Ford ever said to me. 
 
 Q. Why was that? A. I wasn't in the ring, I suppose. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — You mean you were not a Democrat? 
 A. That is it ; I will give it to you square. 
 
 L. A. Aevin Bbrod, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You live in Trenton ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Fresco painter. 
 
 Q. How long have you practiced fresco painting ? A. Twenty 
 years. 
 
 Q. I show you bills of H. Kinnard & Co., paid by the State 
 House ; have you examined these bills ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you examined the work done in the State House 
 with reference to the bills ? A, Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know the prices of materials that are used in this 
 kind of work? A. Most of them. 
 
 Q. Fresco materials ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Colors? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the bill of January, 1890, for the rooms of the 
 Court of Chancery, &c. I show you an item of mixed paint, 15 
 cents a pound — 1,305 pounds? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How do you make mixed paint? A, By using lead and 
 the different colors. 
 
 Q. You first take white lead ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
L. A. ABVIN BEEOD. 331 
 
 Q. And then tint it by the use of colors? A. Yes, air; it 
 would not be mixed paint if it wasn't. 
 
 Q. When you make the price for mixed paint, it covers all 
 that is in it? A. Yes, sir; the lead and the color. 
 
 Q. And dryer and oil ? A. Oil and turpentine. 
 
 Q. You observe the price fixed here is fifteen cents a pound ; is 
 that the full price for mixed paints, with oil and colors in ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; some charge fifteen and some charge less, some charge 
 more; but the regular run is fifteen cents. i 
 
 Q. Look at these colors below, which are charged separately ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are not those the very colors which are used to make up 
 the mixed paint ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Go through these items and note the prices ; the first item 
 is French carmine, $10 a pound; what is the cost of that' A. 
 $4.50 a pound — carmine No. 55. 
 
 Q. Look at cobalt blue, which is charged at $15 a pound; 
 what is the cost of that? A. Fifty cents a pound. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is charged at $15 a pound ; there is 
 only hulf a pound of it. 
 
 y. Chrome yellow ; what is the price of that ? A. Twenty- 
 fivu cents a pound. 
 
 Q. Charged at 60 ; coach green ; what is the price of that ? 
 A. 35 cents. 
 
 Q. Charged at 50; English India red? A. About 16 or 18 
 cents. 
 
 Q. Charged at 40 cents ; Chinese blue ; what is the price of 
 that? A. About 35 cents a pound. 
 
 Q. Charged at 75; Van Dyke brown ? A. 16 cents. 
 
 Q. Charged at 40: gold bronze; what do you have to pay for 
 that? A. $1.25 and $1.75. 
 
 Q. Charged at $2.75; copper bronze ? A. Same price. 
 
 Q. Charged at $2.75; bronze liquid; what do you pay for 
 that? A. $1.25. 
 
 Q. Charged $1.50. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Committee will observe that not 
 only are these colors charged first in the mixed paint, 
 but they are charged twice, and the prices you have 
 heard. 
 
 Q. Now, look at the bill of 1891, sizing; what is that worth? 
 A. Well, I would like to know what kind of sizing they used; 
 for water color it is a different kind of size; that is $1.75 a 
 gallon, and some use a glue size that costs about 2 cents a pound. 
 
332 L. A. ARVIN BEEOD. 
 
 Q. Thie is charged 40 cents a pound, whatever it is ; that 
 would be about $3 a gallon — kalsomine ? A. 10 cents a pound. 
 
 Q. That is charged right, then? A. No, I don't think so; I 
 would like to know if the party that put the kalsomine — one is 
 whitening and glue and the other is kalsomine made purposely 
 for it. 
 
 Q. These blues below here; cobalt blue at $15 a pound; that 
 is as you have stated before ? ^. As I said before. 
 
 Q. And these colors, should they all be included in the item 
 of mixed paint? A. Certainly. 
 
 Q. Have you made an estimate as to the propriety of the days 
 labor charge there? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the quantity of paint, 2,677 pounds of paint ; what do 
 you say about the quantities for the space of wall covered? A- 
 Well, the quantity may be used in some part, but the quantity 
 would not be used; adding all those paints and diflerent colors, 
 it would be an excessive weight to put those colors on in addition 
 to the mixed paint. 
 
 Q. Did you make an estimate of the labor ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How is that? A. Painters are paid in Newark at the rate 
 of |2.25 a day, and for fresjo painters $3 a day; now, they have 
 got to pay the expense of board at the rate of 75 cents a day, 
 but generally the firm pay $5 a weee board for each man. 
 
 Q. That would make it up to three dollars a day, nearly? A. 
 About. 
 
 (J. Look at the bill of December, 1892, this bill for $974 for 
 the lower floor of the wing on the old part. Did you go through 
 that and examine it and measure it up? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you make an estimate on that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is your estimate? A. Well, I found out the price 
 of it would be too much of an extortion. 
 
 Q. How about the quantity ; what quantity do you estimate ? 
 A. It is a little bit over too much there, because the ceilings are 
 done in water. 
 
 Q. What do you say to 185 days' labor? A. It could be done 
 less than that. 
 
 Q. What is your estimate upon it; did you make one? A. 
 Yes, sir, I made an estimate of the Board of Assessors' room, 
 the assistant Superintendent, and all of them offices I calculated 
 would run about at the rate of $50 or $75 apiece, and one room 
 could be done in about two days at least; now, the hall would 
 require about three days. 
 
 Q. Have you got the figures as to what your estimate was on 
 
L. A. ARVIN BEROD. 333 
 
 thai ? A. I calculated about $300 for the wing, comprising the 
 color and the fresco of the ceilings. 
 
 Q. It is $974 in this bill. Did you make an estimate on the 
 Governor's room, corridor and doors, and a coat of paint on the 
 front of the Assembly Chamber gallery; did you make an esti- 
 mate on that work? A. I made an estimate on that work. 
 
 Q. What is your estimate on that? A. It would take about 
 two days to do the Grovernor's room ; and there is one thing I 
 don't see there in the Governor's room, the graining of the doors. 
 
 Q. You don't find this graining? A. Yes, whatever graining 
 — I ilon't know where it is. 
 
 Q. What is your estimate on that bill? A. I would give 
 about $100 or $150. 
 
 Q. $258 it is there. Look at this next bill of January, 1893 ; 
 the decorating and graining is charged at $4.50. Do you know 
 what prices are charged for that kind of work? A. Graining 
 is the same as plain painting, plain painters' work; a thorough 
 mechanic house painter ought to know how to grain. 
 
 Q. What are they paid a day ? A. $2.25, the same as a plain 
 painter. 
 
 Q. Charged here at $4.60. Decorators; what do you pay 
 here? A. $3. 
 
 Q. They are charged $4.50. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Committee will observe that in all 
 these bills the color matter has been charged at the 
 same rates that have been mentioned. 
 
 Q. There is an item of ten packs of gold leaf, $100, $10 a 
 pack. What do you charge for that ? A. That is a patent gold 
 leaf; that is $7.50 a pack. 
 
 Q. Charged here at $10 a pack. This is for the Senate 
 Chamber and ante-rooms of this building. Did you make an 
 estimate for this ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What do you say as to that quantity, 3,810 pounds of paint, 
 besides these other paints, perhaps four thousand and something ? 
 A. That ought to be covered at the most, three thousand. 
 
 Q. Did you make an estimate on this work? A. On the 
 decoration. 
 
 Q. What is your estimate? A. My estimate on the decora- 
 tion. 
 
 Q. You incluc!e these small rooms in the galeries? A. Yes, 
 sir; $1,200. 
 
 Q. For the whole thing? A. For the whole thing. 
 
 Q. Do you mean the gold leaf and all this decoration? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
334 L. A. ARVIN BEEOD. 
 
 Q. What did you have iu for labor in your estimate? A. I 
 got for labor in my estimate about the price — 
 
 Q. How many days' labor did you estimate ? A. About a 
 month. 
 
 Q. For how many men? A. About three men. 
 Q. Mnety days? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. For the whole thing ? A. For the whole thing. 
 Q. 550 days here in the bill. Have you got your estimate of 
 labor; did you include these rooms back here? A. I included 
 the hall. 
 
 Q. You make an estimate of $1,200 for this ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. This bill is $2,916. A. And I added 60 per cent, beyond. 
 The real cost would be $1,023. 
 
 A. The actual cost to you, you figure, would be $1,023 ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you add to that whatever your profit would be? A. 
 Yes, sir ; that is the bare cost. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, in these are very large charges, 
 and I call the attention of the Committee here to this 
 enormous quantity of paint which is charged at 15 cents 
 a pound, and then to these other items in the colors, all 
 charged in as mentioned; dryers are charged, and 
 putties, and umbers and all sorts of things. 
 Q. Did you have these bills before you and go over these items 
 as you were making your estimate? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at this bill for $208 for picture molding. Did you 
 
 look at the picture molding? A.l looked at the picture molding. 
 
 Q. Here is a charge of 45 and 55 cents a foot. What do these 
 
 picture moldings cost? A. Well, I guess about one-third — half 
 
 of this bill would be about the right price. 
 
 Q. Would that still render you a profit ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. What do those picture moldings cost you ? ^4. As far as I 
 could see from that one over there that I examined, that don't 
 exceed three and a half inches, would cost at the rate of 20 cents 
 a foot. 
 
 Q. They have chargd, then, double what they would cost you ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They go to 55 cents. That is a bill for $208.35. Did you 
 assist Mr. Bennett in making up his estimate ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And in checking it up and measuring it up ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. He took down the figures as you measured them up, did 
 he? A. Yes, sir. 
 Recess. 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 335 
 
 Hugh Kinnaed, recalled. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I find by looking at your books that you refer to a book 
 called the " Jobbing Book " for the details. Where is that book? 
 A. That is the book that I spoke of here when on the stand 
 before ; we couldn't find it. 
 
 Q. Do you keep a jobbing book now? A. We haven't re- 
 cently, no, sir; but we did have one up to this time. 
 
 Q. Covering all this period ? A. Yea, sir; and I couldn't find 
 that book. 
 
 Q. Don't you think you can find the book if we give you an 
 opportunity to look again for it ? A. We hunted last night for 
 it two hours, our entire place. 
 
 9. When did Mr. Martin leave your business? A. He left the 
 second Saturday in November. 
 
 Q. Where is he now? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. Is he in Newark? A. He is not — not to my knowledge; I 
 haven't seen or heard of him since. 
 
 Q. Is he in the State? A. Not that I know of, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you think he would know where that book is ? A. It 
 is possible ; he is the only one that would be likely to know, being 
 my present bookkeeper nor I don't know. 
 
 Q. He kept it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The book is in his handwriting ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that was kept up to the time of his leaving, in Novem- 
 ber? A. Yes, sir; that is my recollection. 
 
 Q. You have one now that you use from the date of that ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When did that one begin that you are now using? A. 
 About September. 
 
 Q. Did Martin take the other one away 1 A. 1 wouldn't want 
 to say he took it away; I never thought of looking for it until 
 last evening. 
 
 Q. When did you last see it? A. 1 don't remember seeing it 
 in six months. 
 
 Q. That contains the details of these transactions with the 
 State ? A. It contains the details of several of them, because it 
 shows that by the ledger. 
 
 Q. The ledger refers to that book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you make any entries in that book? A. Not to my 
 recollection ; he has had complete charge of the books. 
 
 Q. What was it, a blotter, or regularly kept day book? A. 
 It was a blotter, a small book about the size of that check book. 
 
 Q. Why weren't entries from that carried into the journal? 
 
336 HUGH KINNAKD. 
 
 A. I couldn't say, unless he failed to have time to do it; I see he 
 has made up some bills without carrying from the blotter to the 
 ledger. 
 
 Q. Did it have in it any accounts other than the State accounts? 
 A. Yes, sir; it bad our jobbing accounts. 
 
 Q. It served the same purpose that this day book serves? A. 
 Largely. 
 
 Q. What was the object of keeping a separate one? A. Well, 
 it is only a custom we got into; I don't know of any special ob- 
 ject, any more than we had it for what we call small jobbing 
 work. 
 
 Q. How did you happen to classify the State's work under 
 that head? A. I couldn't tell you that, sir; he done it; it 
 seems he got it in there ; I didn't know it was in there. 
 
 Q. And didn't get it into the day book and journal ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. But the details of much of your other work are here in the 
 day book and journal? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But the State's work is not? A. It is not, no, sir. 
 
 Senator Daly — The witness showed me a bill after 
 recess that he wanted to explain. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will give him an opportunity to do so. 
 Q. Now, these time books that you have produced that show 
 wages paid by you to the different workmen ; can you tell from 
 these where these workmen were engaged, whether at Trenton 
 or elsewhere? A. 1 don't know, sir; I don't know that I really 
 can now. 
 
 Q. There is nothing there to indicate where those men were 
 working? A. No, sir. 
 
 §. The job book would doubtless show that? A. I think it 
 would it we could find it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In the absence of the job book, which 
 has the details of this work, there is nothing to show 
 here the State's accounts with any particularity, with 
 the exception of certain items. I would like to have 
 the witness produce that book, if he can. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Why is it that this book in this and 
 in all other cases of the investigation, that the missing 
 partner — the partner who knows it all — is away, and 
 the book is away. Now, why should this book, of all 
 others, be lost, I would like to ask the witness ? 
 A. I can't say, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — It is exceedingly strange to the Com- 
 mittee, that of all the books that would develop this 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 337 
 
 thing, the one book, the missing link, is gone ; now, 
 you ought to be able to explain why that is. 
 
 A. I can't explain it; I was not aware the book was gone until 
 last evening. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Are any of your other books gone ? 
 A. Not that I know of. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Doesn't it strike you as a little strange 
 that that book of all others should be missing ? A. It does ; as 
 I remarked to my present bookkeeper, I could not understand 
 it ; I don't understand it. 
 
 Examined by Senator Daly. 
 
 Q. Do you think you cau get it? A. I don't know; I can't 
 say that I can or cannot get it ; I don't know where it is ; I have 
 looked the store all over for it. 
 
 Q. When did you last hear of it? A. I have not heard of it, 
 as I know of, since last fall. 
 
 Q. "When did you last see it? A. 1 think it was probably last 
 September or October. 
 
 Q. Where did you put it then ? A. It was put in what we 
 call the back office, with the other books that were not in use. 
 
 Q. You haven't seen it from that time ? ^. I have not, to my 
 recollection. 
 
 Q. What use had you for it at that time ? A. Well, we were 
 looking up some bills that had been standing some time, and 
 there were small bills, and he got this book out in order to show 
 me the condition of the accounts. 
 
 Q. When did you last look for it? A. Last looked for it last 
 night and this morning. 
 
 Q. Were you subpcenaed to produce it ? A.l was subpoenaed 
 to produce all the books pertaining to the State House business, 
 and I have done it to the best of my ability. 
 
 Q. Have you the same employees now that you had then? A, 
 Well, no; I can't say I have. 
 
 Q. Well, who had the custody of the books during all this 
 time ? A. This man Martin had the custody of them up to the 
 second week of last November. 
 
 Q. Who has the custody of them now? A. Thomas Van 
 Houten. 
 
 Q. Has he had them from November up to this time? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What does he say about it ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will call him. 
 
 22 SH 
 
338 HUGH EINNAED. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees)— You don't know wbere Mr, 
 Martin, your former partner, is, sir ? ^. I do not. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Where was he when you last 
 heard of him ? A. He was in ISTewark on the second Saturday 
 night of November ; he left my store about quarter to 5 o'clock. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — He didn't commit suicide ? A- 
 There is something singular about him ; he has not been seen or 
 heard of since. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Man of family ? A. Yes, sir ;. 
 his family claim to have heard nothing about him. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — They don't know his where- 
 abouts? A. They tell me they do not. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. How old was he? A. A man of about fifty. 
 
 Q. What was his full name? A. Merrick Martin. 
 
 y. Had you dissolved your relations with him before he left? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Disappeared without your knowing the reasons why ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And without having made any settlement with you? A. 
 Without having made any settlement with me or with anybody 
 else, as far as I know. 
 
 Q. And you know nothing of his whereabouts since? A. I 
 do not, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you find any other books or papers gone connected 
 with his disappearance ? A. No, sir; not that I have missed. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skibm. 
 
 Q. Let me ask you this in connection with the book. Is there 
 any special reason why Mr. Martin should have put this book out 
 of the way ? A. Well, not that I know of. 
 
 Q. Have you seen the book since Mr. Martin left? A. I don't 
 think I have ; not to my recollection. 
 
 Q. So that if there was anything there that Mr. Martin wished 
 to conceal it would have been to his interest to suppress that book 
 and put it aside, and you might not have had any knowledge of 
 that fact? A. I have my suspicion, but I have no right to assert 
 what I don't know, sir. 
 
 Q. Without entering into your private business, was there 
 any special reason why Mr. Martin should have left your employ 
 when he was engaged at a salary and commission ? .4. I know of 
 none, sir. 
 
HUGH KINNABD. 339 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. This book was in his custody as long as he remained with 
 you? A. Yes, sir; at that time all the books are in his hand- 
 writing. 
 
 Q. Has anyone else had access to it who would have any motive 
 to make way with it? A. No, sir; no one has had access to the 
 books except Van Houten and I since he left. 
 
 Q. You had not discovered this was gone until I examined 
 you? A. No, sir; I had not. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't see what better we can do than 
 to obtain a little opportunity to examine the books that 
 are here ; I think we ought to have an opportunty to 
 make a brief examination, which will answer every 
 purpose, showing what there is in the books. 
 
 Senator Ketcbam — Mr. Kinnard desired to show you 
 something that he had that he wanted to explain. 
 
 Witness — I don't know as it is worth while to take 
 your time to undertake to explain against the statements 
 made here this morning by the gentlemen who seem to 
 have appraised this work I have done here. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Let me ask you a question. The 
 counsel this morning for the Committee stated that you 
 had charged for mixed paint at 15 cents a pound, and, 
 as now proved by witnesses, that that included the other 
 items of paint charged on your bill, and that it should 
 have been included in the charge of mixed paint. Now, 
 let me ask you, so as to get at the exact facts, and that 
 is all this Committee want to do, whether the items of 
 color that were charged on your bill were not used for 
 decoration of this and other rooms which could not have 
 been used in mixed paint? 
 
 Witness — That is what they were, pure and simple; 
 
 the mixed paints were charged in as paints at fifteen 
 
 cents a pound. Now, this item on this bill which this 
 
 gentleman tells you is worth fifty cents a pound, there 
 
 is Charles Moser's bill of $11 a pound. 
 
 Q. You refer to this item of blue, I suppose? A. Yes, sir; 
 
 and other colors in proportion ; there it is, for |11 a pound, and I 
 
 paid that in cash. 
 
 Q. You*nean to say this chrome yellow you put on without 
 mixing? A. Yes, sir; I can show you some of it ; there is lots 
 of chrome yellow in those colors there, and there is in the court 
 room. 
 
340 THOMAS VAN HOTJTEN. 
 
 Q. These blues and blacks put ou without mixing? A. They 
 are sometimes, different ingredients put together. 
 
 Q. Don't those same things go into mixed paints? A. Some- 
 times, but not in that case; they are decorative colors. 
 
 Q. Chinese blue; you use that in mixing? A. No, sir; not 
 much. 
 
 Q. Yellow ochre, you use in mixing? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What you mean to say to us is this, in these tints, the 
 trimming, there are certain ot the paints, those tints that you use 
 that you do not mix into mixed pain ? A. Yes, sir; sometimes, 
 but those colors are for decorating colors. 
 
 Q. Those colors would not amount to a ton or so in weight? 
 A. No, I don't suppose they would, but there is a big discrepancy 
 between fifty cents and $11. 
 
 Q. 1 think, with regard to that one item, the witness was mis- 
 taken? A. I think he is mistaken in a good many things; this 
 graining work was burned ofi' with a spirit lamp before it was 
 regraiued ; now, that doesn't only mean double but triple and 
 four times the labor what it would be under ordinary circumstan- 
 ces ; now, how is a man to come here and judge as to the cost of 
 it? 
 
 Q. If you will bring us the contract book ? A. 1 am very 
 much afraid I will not be able to find it, but T shall look again ; 
 I want to give this committee every chance to investigate me. 
 
 Q. Do you want to leave this bill of paints with the Com- 
 mittee? A. I would like to show it to the gentlemen who seem 
 to know something about the decorative colors ; I don't believe 
 they know the first principle of the business or they wouldn't 
 put the prices they did on this work. 
 
 Q. I will see that it is returned to you. Is there anything else 
 you wish to volunteer before the Committee? A. Nothing else 
 at this time as I know of. 
 
 Thomas Van Houten, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbln. 
 
 Q. You are the bookkeeper of Kinnard & Co. ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q For how long have you been their bookkeeper? ^4. Since 
 last November. 
 
 Q. You are familiar, then, with these books that are before us ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you a book called your contract book, jobbing book? 
 A. Well, we have one now; it started in about last September. 
 
 ^. When did you go with the firm ? A. I have been there 
 for sixteen years. 
 
THOMAS VAN HOUTEN. 341 
 
 Q. Then you are familiar with the jobbing book which pre- 
 ceded that one? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where is it? A. Where is the book ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. Well, that I can't say. 
 
 Q. Did yoa look for it? A. Yes, sir; looked last night for it. 
 
 Q. Where did you look ? A. Looked all throiigh where all 
 our old books were. 
 
 Q. These last five or six months while you have been book- 
 keeper have you had any occasion to refer to that book? A. 
 The old book? 
 
 Q. No, this book ? A. This book we are using. 
 
 Q. You still keep the same book in this same way as before ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, I see in your day book here many accounts have all 
 the details set out just as you have explained to me the jobbing 
 book has them. Why is it that you enter some of those in thf^ 
 day book and some only in the jobbing book? A. Yes, sir; I 
 can't say why he done it when he was keeping them. 
 
 Q. And I see others have some details entered in full in the 
 journal. What is the jobbing book for? A. The jobbing book 
 was generally taking charge of what was done by contract. 
 
 Q. For the purpose of setting out various details ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. That belonged in the jobbing book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you still use the day book for that purpose ? A. No, 
 not the day book. 
 
 Q. You do it all in the jobbing book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you have changed the practice of the firm in that 
 respect? A. No; you see we refer — on the journal here charge 
 like that, take and go right straight through; if it was a job it 
 would be carried in the jobbing book. 
 
 Q. What do you mean by job? A. Where we make a con- 
 tract for so much. 
 
 Q. The State work was treated as if it was contract work? 
 A. Just the same as contract in that book or the jabbing book. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact, you heard the testimony this morning 
 that it was not contract, except a little of it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But still it was carried into the jobbing book as if it was 
 contract? 4. Yes, sir. 
 
 A. If the work is done by contract, what is the object of 
 carrying these details into the job book, and carrying them 
 through your book? A. I can't say why he done that. 
 
 Q. If it were done by contract, you would charge it up in the 
 
34-2 THOMAS VAN HOUTEN. 
 
 ledger one lump sum for the contract? A. That is the way he 
 has been doing, I see at the bottom of it. 
 
 Q. Well, if you were doing work now for the State of New 
 Jersey here at the Capitol without any contract about it, but 
 charging tor materials and charging for days' work, where 
 would you enter it up? A. Enter it first on the day book. 
 
 Q. Wouldn't put it in the job book at all? A. ISTo, sir; not 
 if it wasn't a contract. 
 
 Q But if it were a contract, you would keep a memorandum 
 of it in the job book ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — For what purpose ? A. That would 
 be f )r the contract at the end, to see how near we would come 
 out. 
 
 §. A sort of a memorandum to show what the work cost you ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Wouldn't transfer the figures all in the ledger? A. No, 
 sir ; simply charge the contract price. 
 
 Q. You have been there a number of years ; were you familiar 
 with these books before you were bookkeeper ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 ^. Did you assist in them ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Make out bills? A. No, sir; he made out the bills him- 
 self; Mr. Martin did. 
 
 Q. Now look at this journal ; I see page 493 and 494 taken 
 up with the details of a bill to the State for $1,191, covering 
 a large number of items and covering two months time; where 
 did those items come from; they run from November 7th, 1889, 
 to January 8th, 1890; I thought you could tell me where those 
 items came from ? J.. I couldn't tell where they came from. 
 
 Q. There »eem to have been two pages reserved there for that, 
 don't there ? A. It goes right along to the date following. 
 
 §. Thirty-first of December ; then comes this memorandum 
 to the State of New Jersey, reaching back to the 7th of Novem- 
 ber and up to the 8th of January; then begins on the next page 
 again, Ist of January ; it isn't in order ; you see there has been 
 two pages reserved for that, has there not? A. It isn't a daily 
 journal entry. 
 
 Q. It is one entry made all at once, isn't it? A. Right there 
 at once; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know anything about that, when it was done ? A. 
 I do not ; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Prior to your becoming bookkeeper did you have any 
 familiarity with the way the books were kept with regard to the 
 State accounts ? A. No, sir. 
 
 <2- Do you know where Mr. Martin is ? ^. I do not ; no, sir. 
 
HEATING AND VENTILATING. 343 
 
 Q. Would you know how to go to work to find him? A. I 
 would not. 
 
 Q. His family live in Newark ? . Yes, sir ; his wife and 
 daughter. 
 
 Q. Do you know of his having any other occupation but this 
 painting business ? A. That is all ; that is the only trade I 
 knew he had. 
 
 Q. Did you know he was going away ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. You were surprised too? A. Yes, sir; I went to his house 
 on Monday to see whether he was sick or not, and found he was 
 gone. 
 
 Q. That was Saturday after election? A. No, sir ; that was 
 November 17. 
 
 Q. Will you make further search for that book and produce it 
 before the Committee if you can find it ? A. I will, yes, sir. 
 Q. Was there more than one job book ? A. Only one. 
 Q. And you think one covered the entire period from 1890 to 
 1894? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would -like an opportunity to examine 
 these books, and if we can get the other we can see 
 what the books contain. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand you that you suc- 
 ceeded Mr. Martin as bookkeeper of this concern? 
 Witness — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Any one in between you and Mr. 
 Martin ? 
 
 Witness — No, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is hardly worth while to dwell further 
 on these books without the other book being here. I had 
 hoped we would have had these books, so as to have 
 gotten more light from them, but I will suspend that 
 now and draw the Committee's attention to the matter 
 of ventilating and heating, and I mention it now that 
 we may have a synopsis of what the evidence really is 
 with respect to it upon the record. 
 
 The Committee will remember that there has been 
 something ofiered with respect to it at two or three 
 hearings. Mr. Moylan, the architect, testified, and his 
 testimony was that no plans were made, so far as the 
 architect was concerned, for either heating or ventila- 
 ting the Assembly Chamber. Mr. Gouge, who was 
 here to day, has brought some plans which he says were 
 plans made by him, and he has left them here for the 
 inspection of the Committee. 
 
344 HEATING AND VENTILATING, 
 
 The testimony of the architect was that the specifica- 
 tions were made from drawings and suggestions made 
 by Mr. Gouge, the President of the Gouge Heating and 
 Ventilating Company ; that matter was taken in hand 
 by the Governor solely ; that the architect practically 
 had nothing to do with it, and instructions were given 
 and the work done under the direction of the Governor. 
 No bids were received excepting the bid of the success- 
 ful bidder, Mr. Gouge, and no direction was given by 
 the architect as to where the pipes should go ; that was 
 also determined by the contractor or by the Governor, 
 it is not known which. 
 
 Nothing is on file in the State House with respect to 
 this except the contract put in before the Committee, 
 which called for the ventilating and heating of the 
 Assembly Chamber with all the appliances. That con- 
 tract was for $21,683, all of which has been paid. That 
 contract was dated June 23d, 1891, and acknowledged 
 before Leon Abbett, Jr., June 1 1th, 1891 , and required the 
 work to be entirely completed and in operation by Octo- 
 ber Ist, 1891, and it was said in the contract that the 
 time is the essential essence of this contract ; it was all 
 to be done as directed by the Governor, and any altera- 
 tions made by him were to be observed, and there 
 was added an interlineation of this clause : " The State 
 will pay the sum agreed upon, subject to the guarantee 
 of the contractor that the work will perform the service 
 required by the Governor for heating and ventilating 
 the State Building." 
 
 Next appears on file a contract with the Victor 
 Radiator Company, dated September 22d, 1891. That 
 is eight days before the entire work was to be com- 
 pleted, you will observe; acknowledged the same day 
 before Leon Abbett, Jr., Master in Chancery; by which 
 the Victor Company agreed to furnish all the radiators 
 necessary at 26 cents per square foot of radiating surface; 
 the work to be delivered within one month after sizes 
 should be given. Under that contract the Victor 
 Radiator Company was paid |1,505.40. The Gouge 
 Company received its money under the contract in 
 December, 1891, and February and May, 1S92. 
 
 The next fiscal year, 1892, the Gouge Company put 
 in an additional bill, dated back, however, to March 
 Ist, 1892, for extra work said to have been performed 
 
HEATING AND VENTILATING. 345 
 
 in JSTovember and December, 1891. This bill, amount- 
 ing to $2,708.33, was paid ISTovember 22d, 1892, or 
 nearly a year later than the other. The total cost, 
 therefore, ot the heating and ventilating of the Assem- 
 bly Chamber was |25,896.73. 
 
 The heating and ventilating of the Senate Chamber 
 was done by the same contractor, and there is nothing 
 on file in the State House with reference to it except a 
 bid from that company directed to the Governor in the 
 form of a letter, and the Governor's acceptance on the 
 foot of it, by which the Gouge Company agreed to heat 
 and ventilate this Chamber, and the committee rooms, 
 &c., for $21,625, all of which was paid in December, 
 1892, and January, 1893. 
 
 The Gouge Company also rendered a bill May 8th, 
 1894, some two years after the work was done, for lum- 
 ber and nails for staging used in the Senate Chamber 
 and afterward sold to Superintendent Ford for $135.68. 
 That was paid on the approval of the Superintendent, 
 Mr. Ford ; the Treasurer, Mr. Swain, and Governor 
 Werts. That bill was rendered May 8th, 1894, for stag- 
 ing used in March, 1992. They rendered another bill 
 May 8th, 1894, for $84 for felting risers in the old 
 library building in March, 1892, or two years and two 
 months after the work was done. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Who rendered this bill? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Rendered by the Gouge Heating and 
 Ventilating Company. That bill was also paid. The cost 
 of heating and ventilating the Assembly side, therefore, 
 is $25,896.73 ; the Senate side, $21,625, being a total of 
 $47,521.73, besides the extra bills which I have men- 
 tioned. 
 
 The testimony as to the present condition of the heat- 
 ing part of the work, as to its general character and 
 efiiciency, the Committee have already heard, and I 
 need not now refer to it, but that is a summary of it. 
 
 I may say that, at the request of the Chairman, the 
 president of the Gouge Company came here to-day and 
 brought the plans which he had made of these cham- 
 bers, with indications where these pipes are, but had 
 nothing new to suggest or offer in the matter, and I 
 therefore excused him from farther attendance and have 
 not offered him as a witness; he seemed to have noth- 
 ing that has not been testified to by Mr. Moylan. 
 
346 HEATING AND VENTILATING. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Is there any poBsibility of any more 
 bills being rendered by the Gouge Company for extra 
 work done ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — History repeats itself, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I know that. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I don't think it will now, 
 though we will have to have new radiators put in. 
 
 Senator Skirm — There is a guarantee on this ; there- 
 fore they will replace them on their own cost. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — History will not repeat itself if that 
 should be done. 
 
 These books I would like to have the Committee 
 direct to be retained here for a time. 
 
 This matter of Mr. Kinnard's books has occupied less 
 time than I supposed it would, and I hope at the next 
 session to bring to a conclusion this particular line of 
 inquiry with regard to the supplies and materials here 
 at the State House. There are a number of matters of 
 lesser importance which have come under my observa- 
 tion, but it seemed to me it would be wearisome to 
 follow every possible lead that was suggested to us. 
 Enough has been shown, or will be, to indicate what 
 we have been trying to show. I suggest adjournment 
 until some day in the coming week. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It is only fair to state, Mr. 
 Kinnard, that you have freely brought the books here, 
 that you have readily complied with the subpoena, but 
 we would like the other book ; you can readily see it is 
 a matter of importance. 
 
 Mr. Kinnard — I only had notice at four o'clock yes- 
 terday afternoon, and the bookkeeper was out and 
 didn't come in until six o'clock, and we worked quite 
 faithfully and couldn't find it. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It is evident you have done all 
 you could to help the Committee. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If Mr. Kinnard can find it within a day 
 or two and will send it to the Chairman or to myself, 
 without waiting until next Friday, we would like to 
 see it. 
 Adjourned until Friday, April 5th, 1895. 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 347 
 
 April 5th, 10 A. M., 1895. 
 
 Hugh Kinnard, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Since the last meeting of the Committee have you succeeded 
 in finding any trace of Mr. Merrick Martin? A. I have not, sir; 
 no trace whatever. 
 
 Q. And can you not give the Committee some clue by which 
 we can get in communication with him? A. I cannot; as I 
 stated when I was here before I have no knowledge whatever as 
 to his whereabouts. 
 
 Q. Have you had any communications from him by letter or 
 otherwise since he disappeared in ISTovember? A. Never, sir; 
 none whatever, in any way, shape or form. 
 
 Q. When you were last here you spoke of a book called the 
 job book of your business which was then missing? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is this book which you sent to me the book which you 
 spoke of? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at this and see if this is the one. A. Yes, sir, that is 
 the book. 
 
 Q. Does this book, together with the books which you before 
 produced, compose all your books showing your accounts with 
 the State? A. I believe they do, sir. 
 
 Q. There is nothing else in your possession showing any record 
 of your transactions with the State 1 A. Nothing whatever, sir, 
 to the best of my recollection. 
 
 Q. You produced time books her6, three of them, which 
 showed your labor account for these several years when you were 
 doing business for the State ; those are all the time books you had 
 during that period? A. They are, sir. 
 
 Q. And they include your entire pay roll, do they ? A. To 
 the best of my recollection, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Mr. Martin was on your pay roll ? A. Yes, sir ; he 
 executed considerable work here ; he done this graining, for 
 instance. 
 
 Q. He was a partner in your business for a time, was he not? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And in 1888 that relation was dissolved, was it not ? A. 
 No, sir — yes, sir, it was dissolved, but a renewal of the agree- 
 ment was made by which he was to work on a commission. 
 
 Q. Let us refer to your day book, page 401. A. Up to that 
 time there was three of us in the concern. 
 
 Q. Let me read from your day book, page 401 : " Newark, 
 Monday, December Slst, 1888. Hugh Kinnard has this day 
 bought the interest of Merrick Martin in this business. Hugh 
 
.34S HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 Kinnard has bought Robert Caddock'e interest in this business." 
 That was a correct entry, was it ? A. That was correct so far as 
 that went. 
 
 Q. Now T observe that you had an account in your ledger with 
 Mr. Merrick Martin, and he is also on your pay roll. This 
 account and this pay roll show all the interest he bad in your 
 business, do they not, after that time? A. Well, no, sir; there 
 was a verbal agreement, and he was in debt to me to the tune of 
 1,600 an4 odd dollars. 
 
 Q. To what effect was this verbal agreement? A. That he 
 was to have so much of a salary, as I said when I was last here, 
 and he was to have, after all the expenses were paid, a percentum 
 on the profits of the business. 
 
 Q. And whatever percentum he did get on the profits was 
 divided up at the end of the year? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That will appear in your books? A. I think it will; I 
 wouldn't be positive. 
 
 Q. Well, any moneys that you paid him as a percentage of the 
 profits would appear there charged to him, wouldn't they? A. 
 I think so, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he draw at the end of the year profits after 1888 ? A. 
 No, sir, because he was indebted to me to the tune of sixteen 
 hundred and odd dollars. 
 
 Q. So that from that time to the present, as a matter of fact, 
 he has not drawn anything more than his wages on the pay roll ? 
 A. Yes, sir, he did; he drawed, I think, $100 each year. 
 
 Q. In addition to what went against the $1,600 indebtedness? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was the $1,600 entirely paid? A. No, sir, it was not, be- 
 cause we hadn't business sufficient to pay it. 
 
 Q. But the wages which he drew, and the $100 per year, is all 
 that he has drawn since 1888? A. Yes, sir, to the best of ray 
 recollection; he has drawn more, but I cannot show it, sir. 
 
 Q. It was all that he was entitled to draw? A. That was the 
 arrangement, sir; that was the agreement which I had with him, 
 that he was not to exceed that amount, in order to pay this back 
 indebtedness. 
 
 Q. I show you your journal, December Slst, 1888, being page 
 308. This shows, does it not, the final settlement with Martin 
 and Caddock? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In other words, you charged at that time, to Martin, 
 $1,689.18? A. With interest, which amounted to sixteen hun- 
 dred and odd dollars. 
 
HUGH KINNARD. 349 
 
 Q. And credited yourself with the same amount ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 that is my recollection, which I have got a note and can pro- 
 duce it ; I have his note he gave me for that amount. 
 
 Q. The ledger, page 199, being the amount of Merrick Mar- 
 tin, that shows the same amount charged to him, does it not? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the account is balanced with the debt, is it not? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It appears there to make an exact balance without the 
 note, does it not ? A. But he gave me the note, and that is the 
 way I made the balance ; I accepted his note, because he had 
 nothing else to offer me, sir. 
 
 Q. A similar settlement was made with Caddock the same 
 day, on page 300 ? A. Yes, sir ; any more than he received 
 cash. 
 
 Q. Since that, you have had no partners in your business? A. 
 No more than the conditions with Martin. 
 
 Q. He has had wages and drawn about a hundred dollars a 
 year, and a certain share of the profits been credited on his note ? 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you " Exhibit 196," being your bill against the 
 State, paid in January, 1891, for $2,792.05. I find in your day 
 book sundry items, making up part of this bill, from September 
 3d, 1890, to December 27th, 1890, which is the last date, I think, 
 in the bill? A. That is right, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, refer to your ledger, page 298, and you will see on 
 that same day, December 27th, 1890, that the account is footed 
 in pencil at $2,380.13. You observe that? A. I see that, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, on the same day, the 27th, there is added to that bill 
 in your ledger $411.95. What was that added for? A. I 
 couldn't answer that, Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Well, I see that your ledger refers to page 26 in some other 
 book? A. It must have been some charge that was not carried. 
 You understand we took account of work here sometimes ten 
 days at a time, a week to ten days at a lime. 
 
 Q. We will refer to page 26 in the journal. Now, Mr. Kin- 
 uanl, I draw your attention to this, that from day to day from 
 September until the end of December there is labor and material 
 charged every day or two or every few days. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But on this 27th day of December on this journal, not 
 eutered in the day book or elsewhere, but on this journal is 
 added to this bill 1,505 pounds of paint, 38 days labor, 7 days 
 labor, and an item of two ladders, making up $411.95. Where 
 d-d you get those details from? A. Well, I will tell you, sir ; 
 
350 HUGH KINNAKD. 
 
 the best explanation 1 can give you that those goods — for in- 
 stance, we bought material herein Trenton; we bought material 
 in New York and elsewhere ; we bought from the Mercer Oil 
 Company; we bought material — 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What did you buy of the Mercer Oil 
 Company ? A. We bought lead and colors and oil and turpen- 
 tine, and they composed this paint. 
 
 Q. Well, you kept a time book, and I see a very accurate one, 
 and your labor is charged up every day, and here at the end of 
 the bill you charge forty-five days additional labor ; where did 
 yoa get that time? A. Well; Mr. Corbin, I couldn't tell you; 
 Mr. Martin had full charge of those books, and I supposed he 
 was an honorable man; I supposed he would keep them straight. 
 
 Q. I show you a bill for $1,836.35, being a bill paid to you by 
 the State in December, 1892— "Exhibit 197?" A. What was 
 that for ; does it state ? 
 
 Q. Oh, yes. A. Yes, sir; I recognize that. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to your job book, page 189 ? A. That 
 is, the job book that was missing, sir ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. Well, does it correspond? 
 
 Q. If you will look at page 189, you will find at the bottom 
 the account figured out, $1,359.54, do you not, and carried over 
 in pencil to the next page in the same figures ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, now, do you see, right above those figures, some 
 more pencil figures, $379.81 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Without anything opposite them. You will observe that 
 those are figured into the account to make it up to $1,836.35, 
 which the State paid. Where did that come from? A. 1 can't 
 explain it any more than as I said a minute ago, that the suppo- 
 sition is that he — they were accounts that had been carried over, 
 and were finally added into the account to make up the total 
 amount. 
 
 Q. That bill, $1,359, appears by your books to have been raised 
 about 25 per cent, by the addition of that $379 ; can you give 
 any other explanation of it? A. 1 cannot, sir. 
 
 (2. The one that I previously called your attention to was also 
 raised about 25 per cent, by this item. Have you any other 
 explanation than what you have told me? A. I have not, sir; 
 not in the least. 
 
 (}■ I draw your attention to your day book, page 539, where 
 there is a charge to " The Gouge Heating and Ventilating Com- 
 pany, of Trenton, blank pounds of paint and two days' labor," 
 the same being charged in the same way in your journal, on page 
 368. I also draw your attention to your day book, page 540, 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 351 
 
 where there is a charge to " The Gouge Heating and Ventilating 
 Company, Trenton," for three days' labor. I find no sums 
 charged opposite these, although they are in your books charged 
 to tbat Company; but I find them charged to the State, on page 
 189 of your job book, with Gouge Company opposite them, but 
 with no sums opposite them. A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. But they are included, apparently, in your book in this 
 raised bill ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you bill work which was charged to the Gouge 
 Company to the State ot E"ew Jersey? A. My memory is, sir, 
 that the Gouge Comipany was to pay for — it was in this Senate 
 Chamber, sir — those projection ventilators you see here, and 
 afterwards it was decided by Mr. Ford, as I understood it, Mr. 
 Gouge and the Governor, that those were not proper charges, 
 and therefore they were carried over to the State. 
 
 Q. The State paid you instead of Gouge? A. Yes, sir; that 
 is my recollection, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at " Exhibit 198," being a bill for $2,916.78, which 
 the State paid to you in January, 1893. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I find in your journal a great variety of items in ISTovember 
 and December for labor and paint, posted into your job book at 
 page 190 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And footed up therein at |2,345.16, on the 7th day of 
 January, 1893? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. At the end of that I find added to this bill $571.62, without 
 any details. Can you tell me what that is for ? A. ISTothing 
 more than my previous explanation, sir, that it was charges of 
 material and labor furnished up to that date. 
 
 Q. Assume that that was so; why wouldn't it appear in your 
 books ? A. Well, I couldn't tell you, more than we carried 
 those things along ; the labor and material was n^t carried out 
 every day nor every week. 
 
 Q. If you bought a ton of paint from the Mercer Oil Company 
 wouldn't it appear somewhere in your books ? A. It is fair to 
 suppose it would, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Did the Mercer Oil Company sell 
 J)aint to you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — The Mercer Oil Company ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; they sold lead and oil and colors to me, sir. 
 
 Q. How can it be that so large an item as $571 put under the 
 head of merchandise, &c., could first appear in your ledger with- 
 out any details in any other book, and that in the face of the fact 
 that you did charge the State for oil and for labor day by day for 
 
352 HUGH IvINXAED. 
 
 two months preceding. A. It was uot charged; I beg your 
 pardou. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Allow me to ask you there, where 
 does this charge first appear, in the journal or in the ledger? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It appears on page 190, of the job book, 
 which is nothing but a ledger; it is a ledger account 
 with the jobs; that is all it is. On the last day when 
 the bill is made there is an item put in the ledger, $571. 
 Senator Skirm — Where else does that appear besides ? 
 Mr. Corbin — Nowhere else; this item does not ap- 
 pear in the day book, and does not appear in the journal, 
 neither one. 
 
 Q. In respect to this bill, I find that you have charged the State 
 3,810 pounds of paint; I find that in your books there is exactly 
 2,710 pounds of paint charged day by day, or that there is a difier- 
 ence of exactly 1,100 pounds; I find that in your bill you have 
 charged the State 539 days of labor. In your books there is a 
 charge of 449 days of labor, or exactly 90 days less. How does 
 your ledger happen to contain 90 days more labor and 1,100 
 pounds more paint? A. I couldn't answer that, Mr. Corbin; I 
 leit this, as I said to you when I was here before, that I left this 
 matter entirely to my bookkeeper, and I supposed that he was 
 doing the honorable, right thing. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You had the supervision of your 
 books, did you not ? A. Yes, sir ; but for the last twenty years 
 I had not assumed to have that supervision ; there is, maybe, 
 where I have been lacking in not looking over those matters. 
 
 Q. In connection with this same bill I want to call your atten- 
 tion to a smaller matter; your job book, page 190, shows, does 
 it not, an item of $68 under date of November 23J, 1892? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 (J. Which was added into the previous bill of which I spoke 
 to you, of $1,836; is that correct? A. It would seem so there, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And that is brought from your journal, page 372, isn't it? 
 A. I see it is. 
 
 Q. Now, the very next item below that, on the 24th day of 
 November, is $18.48, is it not? A. I see it is; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that is added iLto the bill which we now have under 
 discussion ? A. Yes, sir ; I see it is carried in. 
 
 Q. And that is also transferred from page 372 of your journal ; 
 refer to page 372 ol the journal, and you find, do you not, three 
 items of $18.48, $36 and $14, all footed up at $68.48, do you not? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
HUGH KINNARD. 353 
 
 Q. And that item is transferred to this job book as $68, and 
 then the item $18.48 is again transferred in that bill and again 
 paid by the State, isn't it? A. Well, I think that is an error. 
 
 Q. Yes, it seems to be an error. A. It would appear there, 
 but, of course, I cannot explain it. 
 
 Q. 1 am drawing your attention to give you an opportunity 1o 
 do so. A. You see this is a matter of three or four years 
 ago ; a week ago last Wednesday you called my attention to the 
 fact that you wanted those books and I have had no opportunity 
 to look over those to prepare myself to make any explanation ; 
 my bookkeeper is not here, or my partner, and I am. unfortu- 
 nately — 
 
 Q. You shall have all the opportunity after the examination 
 that you desire to make any further explanation. Refer for a 
 moment to the bill we had up before. Have you any account 
 with the Mercer Oil Company on your books ? A. 1 don't know 
 that I have. Oh, yes, I must have. 
 
 Q. If you have, will it appear in this ledger? A. I think it 
 will, sir ; I am only guessing ; I cannot say. I certainly think 
 there must be an account there ; I know we bought goods from 
 them and we paid them money for them. 
 
 Q. Refer to your journal, page 879, date December 10th, 1892, 
 State House job, expenses to date, $61.19; entered also in your 
 job book, page 190. It is footed in with other items and entered 
 there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And also in your book as expenses to date, not charged ? 
 A. Well, you see — 
 
 Q. What did that mean ? A. It meant that charges were car- 
 ried along, I presume. 
 
 Q. Traveling expenses ? A. Yes, sir ; I was in the habit of 
 coming here twice or three times a week to superintend this 
 work. 
 
 Q. It was your traveling expenses to and from Trenton? A. 
 Yes, sir ; our men boarded here. 
 
 Q. Look at the same page in job-book, 190 ; at page 381 of 
 the journal, and there is a similar charge of expenses to Trenton, 
 $5.63; that is similar ? A. I think so; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at another charge in the journal, on page, 384, which 
 you will also find in the day book and job book, an item of 
 $16.64 expenses; that is also for traveling? A. That is my re- 
 collection, sir. 
 
 Q. Look also at page 385, an item of expenses, $40.62; that 
 is for the same ? A. That is the way I think I transferred the 
 men here ; paid their fare out here and back. 
 
 23 SH 
 
354 HUGH KINNAED. 
 
 Q. Now, then, the items amount to $124.08 for traveling? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They are charged in your job book, day book and journal 
 to the State as expenses to Trenton, and as expenses simply. 
 You considered those a proper charge against the State? A. 
 Why not, sir? 
 
 Q. I am asking you. A. Certainly I do, sir. Our custom is, 
 sir, whenever we go out of town to work our expenses are paid 
 invariably. 
 
 Q. Well, if you considered that a proper charge against the 
 State why did you not enter them in your bill? A. Well, you 
 have got me, sir. 
 
 Q. If they were a proper charge against the State why did you 
 enter them in your bill not as expenses, but cover them up under 
 the head of pounds of paint and days of labor, as you did? A. 
 Were they covered up in that way ? 
 
 Q. Yes. I will show you. A. Well, that was my bookkeep- 
 er's fault, is the only explanation I can give; he ought to have 
 showed them straight. 
 
 Q. I show you bill against the State of $258 paid in January, 
 1893, being " Exhibit 199." A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. On the job book, page 190, you find an item charged to the 
 State, $100.72, do you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And another one right before of $157.28? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Those two making up $258 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Now, if you will refer to your day book and journal you 
 will fiod that all the items charged to the State, paint, labor, &c., 
 amount to $100.72, and no more, and that this $157 which raises 
 the bill is simply forced into the ledger. Can you explain that ? 
 A. Wasn't that for picture molding ? 
 
 Q. No, it wasn't. It is in your journal as an item forced in 
 here between the lines; the paint and labor, $158. A. You see, 
 I have not had a chance to look at them — I see there is: — 
 
 Q. So that that bill was raised from $100 to !?258 by your 
 bookkeeper, was it? A. It would appear so there, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The books show clearly that the true 
 amount of this bill, if anything, is $100.72 ; all the items 
 of labor and materials clearly appear. When it comes 
 to be transferred to the journal and ledger there is inter- 
 lined an item of $157.28, which raises it to $258. 
 Senator Skirm — Simply charged as labor ? 
 Mr. Corbin — Labor and paint. 
 
 Witness — Couldn't he put that in there on the strength 
 of items that had not been charged up to that time ? 
 
HUGH KINNARD. 355 
 
 Q. I should be glad to have any BuggestioQ from you to explain 
 it? A. I can't explain it. 
 
 Q. Isn't it incapable of explanation from these books? A. 
 Well, it would seem so, sir, but then at the same time the ques- 
 tion is one that his position — he had so little interest at stake ; I 
 want to say, gentlemen, that I can't think that he meant to do 
 such crooked work as this would show up ; I want to say in 
 justice to him that I cannot think that he would want to do such 
 crooked work as this. 
 
 Q. Particularly when you got the checks for all the money ? 
 A. Very true; but I never advocated his doing anything of this 
 kind, and I don't want to be considered as capable of doing any- 
 thing of that kind. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In this same connection, this bill is in- 
 correctly made up even at $100.72. The traveling 
 expenses of Mr. Kinnard are charged at $11.08, even to 
 make up the one hundred dollars, but they disappear 
 from the bill and appear there as paint and labor ; it is 
 covered up as labor and other items, and there is 
 nothing said in the bill, although it is on the book 
 added, as I said. 'Now, to show the recklessnees of the 
 thing still further ; it appears that this item of expense 
 to Trenton of $14.93, in the cash book, is charged to 
 the State at $11.09, and in the day book is charged to 
 the State at $8.09 ; you can take your choice. None of 
 them appear in thel3ill which the State finally got and 
 paid, $11.09 is footed into the bill which the State paid. 
 Senator Skirm — As paint ? 
 Mr. Corbin — Paint and labor. 
 Q. I show you bill against the State for $4,262.41, paid in 
 January, 1894. The State paid a bill from July 10th to Decem- 
 ber 30th, 1893; you received the check for that? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. I see the amount is credited to the State in your cash book, 
 page 44 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 <y. You having received it on January 11th, 1894? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. It was also credited in your ledger, at page 299. On tho 
 same date your ledger shows that this amount was made up by 
 the balance from the former accounts, $47 to merchandise ; De- 
 cember 80th, 1893, $4,215.41 ; total, $4,262.41, and it refers U8 
 to page 495 of your journal, which has the same entry. Your 
 day book, Mr. Kinnard, has nothing on this subject, although 
 this is the largest bill you ever rendered to the State. Your job 
 book also has nothing at all on the subject. This bill shows 
 
356 HUGH KINNAT^D. 
 
 charges for over $3,000 worth of labor and over two tons of 
 paint, and you have produced no book that gives a single detail 
 of any of it. Where is the record? A. All the records I 
 have is here. 
 
 Q. The first entry that appears in your book is an item for the 
 entire $4,215 in your journal, paint and labor; how could you 
 make up the odd $15.41 without having something to do it from ? 
 A. I couln't answer that question. 
 
 Q. Were you aware that that most important job which you 
 ever did for the State was not recorded in your books? A. I 
 was not, sir. 
 
 Q. IsTot aware of it until now ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say that 769 days of labor were done for 
 the State, and over two tons of paint furnished, and not a scratch 
 of pen put in your books, the work going on over five months, 
 and that all escaped your attention ? A. It certainly didn't es- 
 cape my attention, but I was not aware as to what the charges 
 were. 
 
 Q. Did it escape your attention that no entry had ever been 
 made of it in your books? A. It was in some of the books. 
 
 Q. After the work was done, on December 30th, one single 
 item of the 4,000 and odd dollars; nothing but that; how do 
 you account for it ? A. Well, I can't account for it, any more 
 than his mode of keeping books. 
 
 Q. Were you not singularly interested as to this important 
 job? A. It is possible, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you have some memorandum on some sheet of 
 paper ? A. We had sometimes, but those have disappeared ; the 
 men kept memorandums of the work at the time. 
 
 Q. Some pass-book, or something of that kind? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where are those? A. I can't answer, sir; I have failed to 
 find them. 
 
 Q. In the year of grace 1893 that was the moat important job 
 you did? A. I think it was. 
 
 Q. By far? A. Yes, sir. ^ 
 
 Q. And yet no entry of it is made to appear on your books? 
 A. It seems not. 
 
 Q. Who kept these sheets of your time, Martin ? A. They 
 were rendered to him by the men, and he kept them and charged 
 them on the books. 
 
 Q. Where he was making entries daily in his day book, jour- 
 nal, ledger, cash book, check book and job book, how is it that 
 this most important job for the State of New Jersey should 
 escape entry? A. I couldn't answer. 
 
HUGH KTNNARD. 357 
 
 Q. Didn't you understand at the time that it waB not to be 
 entered on the books 1 A. 1 did not, no, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you mean that this fact is called to your attention now 
 for the first time? A. I mean to say it is, yes, sir, for the first 
 time. 
 
 Q. Now, I desire to go over these bills again with you with a 
 little difierent purpose ; and, first, I show you Comptroller's 
 voucher 1041, being "Exhibit 195," and being your bill paid 
 January, 1890, for $1,191.01. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You received the check which you identified? A. I did, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And you deposited it, as your bank book shows, on Janu- 
 ary 31st, 1890 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Here is the entry in your stub book ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. On the next day, February Ist, 1890, I find you drew a 
 check — No. 17 — and entered this on the stub : " To Hugh Kin- 
 nard, to repay loan, $400, and deduction on work at capitol, 
 $100." A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The $400 repaid the loan which appears in your cash book 
 before ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who got the $100 ? A. I got it. 
 
 Q. What did you do with it ? A. 1 put it in my pocket. 
 
 Q. Why did you deduct $100 for the work at Trenton? A. I 
 don't — when I made my arrangement with Mr. Martin it was 
 with the understanding that he was to take complete charge of 
 the work, and of the business as well as the books of the business, 
 and I deducted it on that account. 
 
 Q. I don't see the force of that reasoning. Why did you deduct 
 $100 from the State's bill ? A. That was my position, sir ; I done 
 it, as I thought, a matter of right ; I had superintended the work. 
 
 Q. You told us the other day that Martin had all to do with the 
 superintending of this work. A. I beg your pardon. 
 
 Q. Didn't you? A. I don't remember. 
 
 Q. You said you came down here two or three times a week ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But didn't you say he came too? A. He came here and 
 done the graining work. 
 
 Q. I don't understand why you drew the check to yourself for 
 $100, and marked in your book " deduction on State House job." 
 A. I done it because I felt that I was entitled to it. 
 
 Q. Does deduction mean in the State House job that all this 
 money belonged to you ? A. No, sir ; I was to give Martin for 
 a certain consideration, after he had had a certain consideration 
 in the business, I was to give him a certain percentage of the rest. 
 
358 HUGH KINNAED. 
 
 Q. Refer to the partnership ? A. Yes, sir ; I don't cover 
 nothing. 
 
 Q. You have not made it plain to me. In your cash book, 
 page 41, you enter " State House deduction, |100." A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What do you mean by deduction ; the State didn't get the 
 benefit ot any deduction ? A. IN'o, sir, but I did. 
 
 Q. You were the proprietor of the business. A. I know I 
 was, but the agreement was that he was to have a certain interest 
 in the business outside of my arrangements with him. 
 
 Q. Did you take a deduction of all the money that came in 
 from your customers? A. No, sir; but I give my personal 
 supervision to this work. 
 
 Q. Let it be so. Didn't you give your personal supervision to 
 other work ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Nothing but this? A. No, sir; not generally I didn't. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say you had some special arrangement in 
 regard to this? A. When we took I he work I said to Martin: 
 " I will superintend the work, but I am to have 10 per cent." 
 
 Q. Then why didn't you take $119.10 ? A. Well, I will tell 
 you why; I didn't, because you will find a charge to Mr. Ford 
 there ; I think that — 
 
 Q. What Mr. Ford is that? 4. Mr. B.J. Ford, Superintendent 
 of the Capitol — which took off some work done at the St. Mary's 
 Academy, and some shades he got, which made the difference. 
 
 Q. At this time? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I guess you have got ahead of your story? A. Possibly; 
 it is possible, sir. 
 
 Q. This is January, 1890, we are talking about now. A. Well, 
 sir, I think there was a deduction there of nineteen dollars and 
 some cents. 
 
 Q. Now, I find this cash which you drew ; I find this money 
 was not entered in the journal or ledger? A. No, sir; I 
 pocketed the proceeds. 
 
 Q. But why didn't you enter it up to yourself, as you did other 
 moneys you drew? A. I can't tell, any more than it was our 
 habit and mode of doing business. 
 
 Q. You entered some of the money you drew and some of 
 the money you drew you didn't enter? A. I don't know how 
 that could be. 
 
 Q It is so as a matter of fact; you see your account in the 
 books, your personal account? A. I kept an account of what I 
 drew for regular expenses, but not for what I received for my 
 services. 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 359 
 
 Q. Now, those credits which you give to Ford and St. Mary's 
 School, and so on, were more than a year after the date I am 
 talking about ? J.. It is possible. 
 
 Q. Your books show it ? A. But I don't think 1891 was. 
 
 Q. I am speaking of January, 1890. The first time the State 
 paid you a bill, then they paid you $1,191, and if you are entitled 
 to 10 per cent, out of that why didn't you take it, why did you 
 take simply $100? A. My recollection is I did, but I maybe 
 mistaken. 
 
 Q. I show you Comptroller's voucher No. 769, being a bill 
 paid to you by the State January 21st, 1891, for $2,792.05. You 
 appear to have deposited the check the same day, January 2l8t, 
 1891? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And on the same day you drew a check, No. 223, and 
 entered this on the margin : " January 21, 1891, by deduction on 
 State House, $250," and the check is to the order of (blank). 
 That is is the check, isn't it? A. Yes, sir; that is it. 
 
 Q. It was cashed? A. It was; I received the money. 
 
 Q. You transferred that to your cash book on page 65. Will 
 you kindly read me that entry ? A. " State for 8, $250." 
 
 Q. What is this that has been erased with a knife right after 
 theS? A. Well, that I don't understand, sir. 
 
 Q,. You see that first word is "State;" what is that first 
 word? A. "Stor for S." 
 
 Q. Well, which will you have it, "Stor" or "State"? A. I 
 will have it " stor," sir. 
 
 Q. Is it "stor" or " ston," with an abbreviation? A. Well, 
 it is in Mr. Martin's writing. 
 
 Q. What has been erased after the S? A. 1 don't know; I 
 couldn't say, sir, as to that, what has been erased. 
 
 Q. Take your own mterpretation of it. " Stor for S." What 
 -does it mean? A. Well, I couldn't say, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't know ? J.. I do not. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. Doii't you know what that entry means? A. I do not. 
 
 Q. And you having control of your business, and enter $250, 
 you say here you don't know what that means? A. I say I 
 don't, sir; I say that there is " Stor for S." 
 
 Q. But don't you know what became of the $250? A. I got 
 the money, sir. 
 
 Q. You did? A. Yes, sir; personally. 
 
 Q. Didn't you get all the money that came from the State into 
 your business? A. It is true, I did; but understand, this man 
 
360 HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 had an interest in this thing, so far as a certain commission was 
 concerned, and I took this before he got his. 
 
 Q. I want to know now, then, what the commission that you 
 paid to your bookkeeper was ; what was the private understand- 
 ing with you and he, the verbal understanding of the commission 
 that you should pay him at the close of the year ? A. Ten per 
 cent. 
 
 Q. Ten per cent, of the net profits of the business ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. What did that amount to, about ? ^. I couldn't answer 
 that just now; oh, well, it would amount to probably three or 
 four hundred dollars, but, understand, he owed me $1,600. 
 
 Q. But it was not a large amount? A. I can't say. 
 
 Q. Did you at the end of the year make up your account so as 
 to know how much commission was due Mr. Martin ? A. Well^ 
 he did. 
 
 Q. But you certainly had the superintending of your business? 
 A. Senator, I left this matter entirely to him ; he had the com- 
 plete control of my books and my accounts; he had been with 
 me almost twenty years, would be if he had staid with me until 
 this month, and I had the most explicit confidence in him, and I 
 took what he said to be correct. 
 
 Q. And, therefore, you thought that you would get your com- 
 mission of ten per cent, out of this State House work so that he 
 would have it only on the net amount afterwards, after deducting 
 the ten per cent. ? A. Yes, sir, that was the idea precisely. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Isn't the letter which has been erased there with the knife 
 an " H," and wasn't it " S. H.," for State House, originally ? A. 
 It is possible, certainly ; I think it is possible. 
 
 Q. What did "Ston" mean, or "Stor"? Can't you give us 
 some clue to that ? ^. I don't know that I can. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the $250 ? ^. I put it in my pocket. 
 
 Q. After you took it out of your pocket, what did you do with 
 it then? A. My recollection is I paid it to the Mutual Benefit 
 for interest I owed them. 
 
 Q. Didn't you do that by check, a man that keeps a set of 
 books like you ? A. Not always; I always keep certain cash on 
 hand ; I have got to-day probably a couple of hundred dollars in 
 my safe ; you will find that invariably if you will take my book. 
 
 Q. I show you the stub of a check here, December Slst, 1890, 
 check to Hugh Kinnard for six months' rent of store, $400, and 
 horse bought of Barney, $265. A. Baney; we have a horse 
 dealer in Newark by the name of Baney. 
 
HUGH KINNAKD. 361 
 
 Q. You bought the horse of him, did you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — If Mr. Kinnard was entitled to 
 
 10 per cent., why didn't he charge $279 instead of $250? 
 
 Q. This bill was $2,792.05 ; if you were drawing a check and 
 
 entering in the stub, " deduction on State House account," why 
 
 wasn't that check $279 ? A. Well, that is a question 1 couldn't 
 
 • answer. 
 
 Q. Why did you throw away $29 of it ? A. I couldn't tell 
 you, sir, unless it was that the amount was made out for that 
 amount ; I took my bookkeeper's statement. 
 
 Q. Didn't you make that erasure yourself in that book ? A. 
 No, sir ; I didn't ; I see it has been erased, but I didn't know it. 
 Q. When did you first observe the erasure? A. Now, sir. 
 Q. You went over these books some, after I summoned you to 
 bring them; did you not see it then? A. No, sir, I didn't. 
 
 Q. You saw some of the stubs, did you not? A. I didn't 
 have no opportunity. 
 
 Q. But you did look over the stub bjok after I summoned 
 you, didn't you ? A. I did, to some little extent; what time I 
 had I was looking for this email journal. 
 
 Q. Did you observe some erasures that have been made there? 
 A. I did not. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I didn't understand Mr. Kinnard to 
 say why he didn't draw his check ; if he was so particu- 
 lar and precise in getting 10 per cent, out of this, why 
 didn't he draw his check for $279.52? I didn't under- 
 stand your answer. 
 
 Witness — My answer was simply that I took the 
 amount my bookkeeper gave me and said nothing, sup- 
 posing that was right. 
 Q. Now, you gave us an answer a few minutes ago which may 
 help to clear this up. When we were talking about the bill of 
 January, 1890, you said there was some items I would find here 
 where you had credited Mr. B. J. Ford with some things he 
 owed you — that was this time ; it wasn't 1890. A. I haven't had 
 an opportunity to go through these accounts. 
 
 Q. Refer to your journal on this same 21st of January, 1891, 
 page 35, and you will see this item : "B. J. Ford, by deduction, 
 $16.83." A. That was for shades; that was the point I made. 
 
 Q. Now, if you will look at your journal you will find you 
 posted that in two places, page 661 in your ledger and page 268 
 in your ledger, and you will find you have got two accounts with 
 Mr. Ford, one of them is for shades, page 18 of the ledger. Page 
 18 of the ledger is an item of sundry accounts where you charge 
 
362 HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 Mr. Ford for shades, $14.95. The heading at the top is " Sundry 
 Account?" A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You credited him with |14.95 on that account, which bal- 
 anced it. Now, if you will refer to page 661 of the ledger you 
 will find that you had a little account against Mr. Ford of only 
 $1.38 and that you passed to his credit $1.38. You balanced 
 that also and credited to Mr. Ford on that day $16.33. Add that • 
 to the $250 makes $266.33, which is a little nearer to the 10 per 
 cent., but isn't yet quite up to it. Why, when I was asking you 
 about this, did you connect Mr. Ford's name with it — what had he 
 to do with getting this money from the State ? A. Mr. Ford didn't 
 have anything to do with it, but Mr. Ford had patronized us to 
 that extent and we felt like making a condition, and as I was to 
 have 10 per cent, on the business transaction, and I, of course, 
 deducted that; I assumed to do that, and that was the way my 
 partner figured it up. 
 
 Q.' So that you got the $250 in cash, which you put on your 
 book, and you credited Mr. Ford $16.33 on account of good 
 friendship he had shown you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Don't you think that was pretty small and mean, to give 
 him no more than that ? A. He had never asked me for any 
 more. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. You don't suppose this Committee credit that statement, 
 do you, that that is all the money you paid Mr. Ford, with the 
 expensive charges here? A. I paid him later. 
 
 Q. How much did you pay him later? A. I paid him on St. 
 Mary's Academy some forty odd dollars. 
 
 Q. That with Mr. Ford would amount to a very small amount 
 in handling the thousands of dollars that you did here; do I un- 
 derstand you had two partners at this time? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And you had the profit of the business, except the small 
 commission that you paid to Mr. Martin ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then isn't it rather singular — did you draw any other 
 money at that time for commission ? A. No, sir ; it is the only 
 job, because I assumed to personally superintend this. 
 
 Q. Didn't you superintend other work ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. But you had the supervision of your business? A. Well — 
 
 Q. You gave your time and attention to that 1 A. I saw fit to 
 assume it ; my health had been such that I had not been in con- 
 dition to superintend it personally, and when this work come 
 along, I agreed personally to superintend it. 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 363 
 
 Q. You were getting all the profits except the ten per cent, 
 you gave Mr. Martin ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And yet you thought you ought to get that ten per cent., 
 so as to prevent Martin from getting ten per cent, on the few 
 hundred dollars ? A. That was it, sir. 
 
 Q. Which would amount possibly to $40 or $50? A. It would 
 amount to more than that. 
 
 Examined by Mil. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Mr. Ford got only $16.33 ; didn't somebody else get some 
 of this $250 ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Nobody but Ford interested in it? A. No, sir. 
 Q. You and Ford were the only persons interested in the job? 
 A. That was all, sir ; not a soul got a single cent; that is correct, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. I show you Comptroller's voucher No. 596, which was the 
 bill to the State paid to you December Slst, 1892, for $1,836.35, 
 and you deposited the check the same day ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look also at Comptroller's voucher No. 809, which was 
 paid to you a few days later, January 18th, 1893, tor $2,116.78, 
 which you deposited January 19th, 1893, and add these two 
 together, and they amount to $4,753.13. Now, two days after 
 you deposited that check, to wit, on January 21st, 1893, you 
 drew a check. No. 355, which was drawn to the order of (blank), 
 and was for wages and other expenses, $500? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. With a knife erasure underneath. Can you say what has 
 been erased with a knife under that? A. No, sir, I cannot; 
 won't the check show ? 
 
 Q. That is the check, isn't it? A. That is the check, yes, sir, 
 $500. 
 
 Q. Do you know what has been erased on that stub ? A. No, 
 sir ; I do not. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Have you examined the stubs 
 to discover whether or not erasures occur under any 
 other checks ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have not observed any others but those 
 to which I have called attention or shall call attention ; 
 there are only three or four in all. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did the wicked partner do that, 
 do you know, Mr. Kinnard 1 A. I wouldn't want to say. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It is funny how these blots get 
 right here on these particular checks, isn't it ? 
 Q. The stub says that the check is for wages and other ex- 
 penses. Byreferringto your cash book, and also to your time book, 
 
364 HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 I see that your wages ot that week were $59.80, and that joa 
 so charged it, and you have also the same day charged up ou the 
 cash account, " Expenses on State, work, |450." A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Which is a little shy of 10 per cent, of that bill. What 
 did you do with that? A. Why, I pocketed the proceeds and 
 used it for my own personal benefit, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Why should that be entered 
 " wages and expenses ? " Why should that have been entered 
 that way, and yet you drew the money and put it in your own 
 pocket, as you say? A. A certain portion of it was paid out for 
 wages and a certain portion paid to me for my personal expenses, 
 and so on. 
 
 Q. When you say expense on State House work, what do you 
 mean by expenses ? You say it comes to you? A. I mean my 
 commission of 10 per cent. 
 
 Q. Before you called it " deduction," now you call it " expen- 
 ditures," but you have explained it as being your own personal 
 first profit on the work. Why did you hide it under such entries? 
 A. I couldn't answer that, unless my partner put it in that shape. 
 
 Q. Let me refresh your memory. .If you look at your journal, 
 page 389, on this same day you will find this entry : " January 
 21, 1893. Bernard J. Ford, credit by deduction, $46.38." A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, it is right along side of the other? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Done the same day that you got your money from the 
 State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Doesn't that recall something to your mind ; might not 
 some of your expenditure been in connection with Ford? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much of that $450 did you give him ? A. That forty 
 odd dollars was a deduction ; he went to my partner Martin and 
 asked him, I think it was in the month of November, to go there 
 and see about certain work that he wanted done, and he went 
 and done the work, and that was the amout it cost; and he later 
 said to me that he would like to have him make a deduction of 
 the work, that he proposed to give it to the sisters for charity, 
 and I said to Martin, " Make the credit aud deduction to him." 
 
 Q. How much is your recollection that you did in the way of 
 charity for St. Mary's Academy? A. It would amount to forty 
 odd dollars. 
 
 Q. Now look at your book and observe that it is only $5.25, 
 and that the rest is Bernard J. Ford's private account ? A. My 
 understanding was that it was $11.18. 
 
 Q. That is your ledger, page 572 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
HUGH KINNAKD. 365 
 
 Q. la truth, it is all charged to Bernard J. Ford ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And one item of St. Mary's Academy, $5.25, is added to 
 the account, isn't it ? A. It would show so there, but that was 
 my understanding, that that was the amount that was deducted. 
 Q. How did it happen that you credited Mr. Ford the full 
 amount of his account and canceled his account on the very day 
 when you got this sura of four thousand and odd dollars from 
 the State? A. In order to settle our books. 
 
 Q. But what connection has the charity to Mr. Ford and your 
 good feeling to him with the payment of money to you by the 
 State? A. Well, it had just that, that Martin called my atten- 
 tion to it, and I said, " Well, make that deduction," and the 
 result was the two accounts were settled up the same day. 
 
 Q. But on both of these occsions, when you made deductions 
 
 on Ford's bills, or, rather, canceled his bills, it sj happened that 
 
 was the very day you got money from the State? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the getting of money from the State remind you of 
 
 this? A. Yes, sir; Martin called my attention — 
 
 Q. You connected the two things together? A. Yes, sir; 
 Martin called my attention to it and we there closed it out, in 
 order to settle the whole matter. 
 
 Q. So that getting the $4,000 from the State and deducting 
 this 10 per cent, in the check to (blank), and the canceling of 
 Ford's bills, in your mind was one affair? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Naturally so ? A. Yes, sir; that was 
 the idea, in order to settle our books. 
 
 Q. Were there any occasions when you passed money to Ford's 
 credit to balance his bills on days when you didn't get money 
 from the State? A. Not that I know of; I don't think of any. 
 Mr. Corbin — Here is a part of the entry of this cash 
 transaction. On page 29 of the cash book the check was 
 for $500 ; it was transferred to the cash book as $450 for 
 expenses on State work, and wages, $59.20, which is 
 correct; but you will observe the word "wages" is 
 written over an erasure, the bookkeeper evidently being 
 absent-minded at the time; you will see a capital F 
 there very plainly, which has been erased with a knife, 
 but still appears — capital F with quotation marks. 
 Q. Were there any other donations made to St. Mary's Acad- 
 emy, or any other institution, by you at Mr. Ford's request, 
 similar to this ? A. No, sir; not to my recollection. 
 
 Q. Did you contribute to any cause at his request? A. Well, 
 I think I gave once or twice ten dollars for charity purposes for 
 
.366 UUGH KINKARD. 
 
 diflerent arrangements which he spoke to meabout, but I couldn't 
 say now just what it was. 
 
 Q. Did you contribute to any patriotic purpose or political 
 purpose at his request ? A. No, sir, I didn't, never. 
 
 Q. So that with the exception qF those items you have stated, 
 nobody was interested in these contracts except you and Mr. 
 Ford? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I draw the attention of the Committee 
 to the fact that these cash items, like the others, do not 
 appear in the journal or ledger. 
 
 Q. I now show you Comptroller's voucher 917, which was the 
 bill paid to you by the State, January 26, 1893, for $258; also 
 Comptroller's voucher 2,890, bill paid to you June 14, 1893, 
 $208.35; also Comptroller's voucher 3,249, being bill paid to you 
 July 11, 1893, for $319.25, for all of which you receved checks 
 and deposited them. These three little bills in the year 1893 
 amount to some $780. I draw your attention to your cash book, 
 page 45, under date of December 30, 1893, that was the day, 
 Mr. Kinnard, which is stated in your book, bill of four thousand 
 and odd dollars, as being the last day when work was done ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Observe in your cash book on that day a charge for ex- 
 penses to Trenton, §2.60. You doubtless went to Trenton that 
 day, did you not? A. It is likely, sir. 
 
 Q. And made out your large bill for four thousand and odd 
 dollars? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Right below it I see an item of wages, $185.75, which is 
 correct according to your time book ; you paid the wages that 
 day, doubtless, didn't you ? A. It is likely. 
 
 Q. You had quite a large number of men finishing up the 
 work here at that time, did you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To get ready for the Legislature. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you finished it that day ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the next item right under it, I observe, is expense, &c., 
 $250 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Those three items, evidently, are all written at the same 
 time? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who got tine |250? .4. I take it that was expense that 
 had accumulated in connection with the work up to that time. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to the fact that that day you drew a 
 check for $350 for wages? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Which was paid ; which would about pay your pay roll, 
 and the $250? A. Yes, sir. 
 
HUGH KINNAKD. 367 
 
 Q. That $250 doesn't appear anywhere ia your journal or 
 ledger. To whom did you give that money t A. 1 couldn't 
 answer, sir. 
 
 Q. Don't you remember? A. I do not. 
 
 Q. Isn't it extraordinary that it should not be charged to any- 
 body? A. "Well, I don't know but what it is, but my recollec- 
 tion is it was either expended for wages or else went to my per- 
 sonal benefit. 
 
 Q. Look at the check which you drew in the morning of 
 December — , 1893, for $350? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Of course you knew your pay rolls were not that amount; 
 you knew they were funning about a hundred dollars a week ; 
 and you came down to Trenton that day, as your books show, 
 and you paid $135 wages. To whom did you give $250 expenses ? 
 A. I couldn't answer that; I don't believe I gave it to anybody; 
 I believe I was sick at that time ; I believe I was on my back. 
 
 Q. You didn't let $250 in cash get away from you without 
 knowing where it went ? A. No, it isn't likely I did. 
 
 Q. Why didn't it go to some of jour ledger accounts ? A. 
 That I couldn't answer. 
 
 Q. Who do you think came down if you were sick 1 A. \ 
 think Mr. Martin. 
 
 Q. Do you think he brought down the $250 ; you must have 
 known the purpose of it? A. 1 don't know that I did; I have 
 no doubt that I signed the check. 
 
 Q. I show you again the large bill for $4,262.41. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your check in payment of that you deposited January 12th, 
 1894, and the same day you drew a check for $508, and entered 
 on the stub check " 1294, expenses, &c., to State House job, $426, 
 to January 1st, 1894 ; " now, that was 10 per cent. ? A. That was, 
 
 Q. Lacking a few pennies. Mr. Kinnard, that check is drawn 
 to blank; who got the money? A. I got it. 
 
 A. Why didn't you draw it to Hugh Kinnard? A. Well, now, 
 I couldn't answer that, sir ; I got those checks and used the 
 money. 
 
 Q. You can't tell any reason why that was drawn in blank ? 
 A. I cannot, sir, any more than that was our custom. 
 
 Q. With these checks it was your custom ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But not with anybody else?^ A. No, sir; very true, but — 
 
 Q. There are checks here drawn to your order and endorsed 
 by you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q, Why wasn't that drawn to your order, and why didn't you 
 endorse it if it went to yon personally ? A. That is a question I 
 could not answer. 
 
36 B HUGH KINNAKD. 
 
 Q. That is signed H. Kiunard & Co. ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Your firm? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Wouldn't good business require that it go to the account 
 of the man who got it personally? A. It would seem so. 
 
 Q. Isn't it so ? A. No, I can't say it is ; it was simply our 
 cuBioni oi doing business. 
 
 Q. With these particular State House checks ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Not with any others ? A. I guess you will find others ; I 
 guess if you will go through my books you will find others ; I 
 guess you will find I have got accounts there wherein I have 
 carried over from one to two and three or four hundred dollars, 
 on the pay roll for instance. 
 
 Q. Your books show that you carry two or three or four 
 hundred dollars in cash in the drawer? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But this money, you tell us, was for 10 per cent, of this 
 State House bill ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that it went to you personally ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And you wanted to get it out before Martin got his share ? 
 A. Yee, sir. 
 
 Q. Why in the name of common sense wasn't it drawn to you? 
 A. It was simply our custom and mode and manner of doing 
 business; that is the only way I could answer you. 
 
 Q. Was it by your direction it was drawn in that form ? A. 
 I wouldn't say it was or was not ; that was my recollection ; it 
 was simply a custom we had of doing it. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the $426 ? A. Well, I can't answer 
 that question just now; the supposition is, I paid it out in vari- 
 ous ways. 
 
 Q. My supposition would be that you gave it to "Barney" 
 Ford ? A. Mr. Corbin, I say to you positively and emphatically, 
 that I never gave Mr. Ford a dollar over and above what I have 
 here stated. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did any one else do it for you ? 
 A. I couldn't say, sir, as to that. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Let me say to you that it has been 
 shown in this testimony that he received money from 
 other people, and it isn't hardly likely that he would 
 bring you here all the way from Newark to do this work 
 fiar the excessive charges which you have received, and 
 which your bills show, without your paying some com- 
 mission to Mr. Ford, either directly or indirectly, and 
 your checks show it, and it would convince ninety-nine 
 men out of a hundred, and you mean to say here under 
 
HUGH KINNARD. 369 
 
 that that you Deither directly or indirectly paid Mr. 
 Ford any money ? 
 A. Personally I never did. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. Of course not; you are too smart for that? A. I can't say 
 as to what he might have received from other parties. 
 
 Q. You are the owner of the business, Mr. Kinnard ; Mr. 
 Martin certainly did not make any expenditures for that line ex- 
 cepting at your directions, and you know when you made this 
 bargain with Mr. Ford that it was clearly understood that he was 
 to have a commission? A. No, sir; I say to you frankly that 
 there was no such understanding. 
 
 Q. Then you are the only man that ever did any work but 
 what did. A. He never put me in that position. 
 
 Q. But you simply gave him, directly or indirectly, this 
 money ? A. He may have got it indirectly, but he never got it 
 from me. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What makes you think he might 
 have got it indirectly ? A. Here is a case of $250 which Mr. Corbin 
 shows up — that he has got to show that Mr. Martin gave it to 
 Mr. Ford. I don't tell you that he didn't do that, because I have 
 no right to. 
 
 Q. You were the owner of the business? A. It is true, but I 
 had the most explicit confidence in this man Martin ; I thought 
 as much of him as though he were my brother, and I trusted 
 him for everything ; whatever he told me went, every time ; now 
 you can readily see the position I am put in here to-day ; as to 
 whether he gave Mr. Ford — 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Corbin) — He had more confidence in you than you 
 did in him, for he drew checks in blank and handed them to you 
 and you got the money on them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Corbin) — Was he a man through whom this com- 
 mission might have been paid indirectly to Ford ? A. That I 
 couldn't say. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Couldn't, because you don't 
 want to say so from reasons of friendship, or is it because you 
 haven't the knowledge ? J.. I couldn't say what I don't know ; 
 this man, I had the most explicit confidence in him, and I have 
 reiterated that again and again here, and the man evidently has 
 deceived me — evidently, I say, has deceived me ; I can tell things 
 here that has no weight on this thing. 
 
 Q. This is all for your benefit; you got the benefit of this 
 check ; it isn't likely you would do this and draw these checks 
 
 24 SH 
 
370 HUGH KINNAED. 
 
 as they are drawn there, unless Mr. Ford or somebody else that 
 you gave this commission to, either directly or indirectly, and 
 you know you paid Mr. Ford some money. A. 'No, sir, directly 
 I did not. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Cobbin. 
 
 Q. If Martin did this thing unbeknown to you it doubtless was 
 done at your expense? A. It no doubt was; that I don't dispute; 
 it was evidently done according to this flOO deduction and these 
 other items here. I have had such confidence in that man that I 
 have really never looked over those books. A week ago Wednes- 
 day I was notified to bring those books here, and on Thursday 
 morniug I brought them all but the one which is the small job 
 ledger, and they have been here ever since ; now, I have had no 
 opportunity whatever — I want to say in fairness I have had no 
 opportunity to go over those books to see what shape they are in, 
 or to know how Mr. Martin treated me in this transaction. 
 
 Q. We appreciate that. A. I hope you do;'! claim to be an 
 honorable man. 
 
 Q. But when money is paid to you on a check, drawn in blank 
 and you acknowledge you have had it, it is perfectly legitimate 
 for me to ask you here to-day, and without preparation, what 
 you did with it. A. That is right. I am heavily indebted to the 
 Mutual Benefit of Newark. Now, invariably I pay them interest 
 money about that date. Glentlemen, I own considerable real 
 estate, that will explain — I don't want to cover nothing — that is 
 my position. 
 
 Q. I see here in the same place that when somebody went to 
 Trenton about this business they would charge up for expenses 
 |2.60, $3, $3.25, &c., which is about the ordinary expense of 
 coming down here, is it not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, I find on some days the charge will be, for example, 
 $13.60 or $23.60? A. Yes, sir; that is when he went to bring 
 the men. 
 
 Q. Wouldn't that rather indicate that Martin might, without 
 your knowledge, have handed a ten dollar bill or twenty dollar 
 bill to somebody? A. It might be that, sir. 
 
 Q. His legitimate expense of coming down here could hardly 
 be twenty odd dollars, nor yet thirteen dollars ? A. No, sir ; I 
 wouldn't dispute that position, yet at the same time I am free to 
 acknowledge that he done it, but to tell you I know he done it, 
 I can't say that. 
 
 Q. You don't think he pilfered that money out of your drawer, 
 do you? A. Hardly, sir; no, sir. 
 
HUGH KINNARD. 371 
 
 Q. Take this $250, which apparently he did fetch down ; how 
 much do you imagine he did give Ford? A. I couldn't tell you, 
 sir ; I couldn't honestly state ; I couldn't give you any idea as to 
 what extent he went; you understand I had cash right along in 
 my safe. 
 
 Q. If you will examine your accounts and these advances that 
 have been made in these bills, to which I drew your attention 
 this morning, you will see that they are about 25 per cent, on 
 each bill; well, if that was so, and Martin did that, don't you 
 suppose that he gave more than 10 per cent, to " Barney " ? A. 
 That I couldn't say; he might have pocketed the difference him- 
 self. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — How could he get hold of it ; 
 these checks were made to Mr. Kinnard, and Mr. Kinnard says 
 he got the cash for them himself? A. Those are the check-! 
 that Mr. Corbin makes allusion to, but there were checks, and 
 we kept a ready amount of cash in our safe that was allowed to 
 be paid out for different expenses; I think it is fair for me to 
 say that I had anywheres from $100 to $200 ready cash in the 
 safe that was kept there for certain purposes. 
 
 Q. Yes, your cash book shows that? A. Yes, sir; I have got 
 that to-day there. 
 
 Q. ISTow, might he not have had somebody else that he was 
 taking care of besides " Barney " ? A. That I couldn't answer ; 
 I don't want to include anybody. 
 
 Q. Don't you rather think there was somebody else? A. It 
 is possible. 
 
 §. Who do you think he might have been taking care of be- 
 sides Ford? A. I wouldn't like to say that, of course; since the 
 man has disappeared I thought there was a woman in the case ; 
 but to tell you that is so — I don't know that it is so ; I don't as- 
 sert that, but it looked to me a little that way. 
 
 §. Do you suppose it was somebody else at the State House or 
 somebody else in Newark? A. I think it was somebody else 
 outside of here; I think, if he was taking care of anybody here, 
 it was Ford and Ford only; but to tell you that is so, I don't 
 know. 
 
 §. (By Chairman Voorhees) — In your mind, don't it look a 
 little bit as if he had been doing so ? A. \ am free to acknowl- 
 edge, the way this is showing up — it is all news to me — I am free 
 to say to you it does look bad ; I frankly acknowledge that this 
 thing looks, on the face of it — 
 
 Q. If he was paying only 10 per cent, to " Barney " he would 
 
372 HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 hardly add 25 per cent, to the bills, would be? A. No, sir. 
 Have you the proof that he added that ? 
 
 Q. Yes, I think so. A. It may be, but I don't know. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That is, from your books it evi- 
 dently appears that the books were padded about 25 
 per cent. They are all in good shape as to all other 
 accounts. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The quantities of both labor and mater- 
 ials are increased in each bill. That is all the proof we 
 have. 
 
 Senator Skirm — What interest did Mr. Martin have 
 in raising these bills from 25 to 30 per cent., when he 
 was only getting a commission on the profits of the 
 bills ; the bills are too small ; this certainly has not been 
 done by Mr. Martin. Mr. Kinnard was the owner and 
 he derived the profit. The little amount that Martin 
 got out of it would'nt induce him to do that. Isn't that 
 so? 
 
 Witness — That looks bad on the face of it, but you 
 
 can see that he had access to my cash, that if he was 
 
 disposed to rob Peter to pay Paul, as the saying is, you 
 
 can readily see how he done this thing. 
 
 Q. Your cash balanced every month all right? A. Yes, sir ; 
 
 there is where he has deceived me. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I can't see any deception. The bills 
 and books are right, and the amounts of money you 
 have collected from the State are correct. 
 Q. Haven't you forgotten some part of it ? A. Mr. Corbin, I 
 can't say I have forgotten anything specially. 
 
 Q. How many times did you talk the matter over with Ford? 
 A. Well, now, I had very little conversation with Ford in con- 
 nection with this matter. 
 
 Q. Did he say that he didn't want any commissions? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Two or three witnesses here have sworn that he said he 
 didn't want any commission? A. No, sir; I wouldn't say he did 
 or did not. All I know is that Mr. Martin called my attention 
 to the fact that there was a bill of forty dollars and thereabouts, 
 and he wanted to make a deduction, and Martin spoke to me 
 about it, and I said, "All right ; give it to him." 
 
 Q. He didn't tell you that he didn't want a commission ? A. 
 No, sir, I wouldn't say that he ever said a word as regards 
 commissions; I couldn't say. 
 
HUGH KINNAHD. 373 
 
 Q. I would like to know whether you can suggest any ex- 
 planation as to the reason of those bills — that is a rather solemn 
 subject — adding 25 per cent, to the quantities? A. ISTo, sir, I 
 cannot. 
 
 Q. You mean to say that you never discovered it until now? 
 A. I do, sir; I never discovered it until now, and now I only 
 know it on your representation. 
 
 Q. I simply have called your attention to entries in your 
 books, and we have nothing but what they show. A. I cannot 
 question but what your statements are correct. I shall have the 
 books gone over thoroughly if I ever get them in ray possession 
 again, as a matter of satisfaction to me, if nothing else. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to offer in evidence theie checks. 
 First I offer in evidence check dated February 1st, 1890, 
 made by H. Kinnard & Co. to Hugh Kinnard, for $500, 
 endorsed " Hugh Kinnard." Marked " Exhibit 202." 
 
 N"ext, check dated January 21st, 1891, to the order of 
 (blank), $250, signed " H. Kinnard & Co."; not en- 
 dorsed. "Exhibit 203." 
 
 Next, check dated January 2l8t, 1893, to the order of 
 (blank), $500; not endorsed. " Exhibit 204." 
 
 Check dated January 12th, 1894, to the order of 
 (blank), $426 ; not endorsed. " Exhibit 205." 
 Q. When you drew this last check there was entered in the 
 stub of it, " State House job to January 1st, 1894," put a little 
 differently that time. What did that mean ? A. 1 assure you I 
 couldn't say, sir, why it should have been put that way; it is in 
 Martin's handwriting. 
 
 Q. Didn't it mean that t-e commission was settled up to Janu- 
 ary Ist, 1894, on all this State House work? A. I presume it 
 did, so far as I was concerned. 
 
 Q. And so far as Ford was concerned? A. Well, that I 
 couldn't say ; that I couldn't say, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Does it appear in the books of 
 account anywhere, a statement of the amounts that were 
 paid to Martin on account of his $100 allowance ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir; I think that his account disap- 
 pears from the books at the end of the year 1888; he is 
 on the pay-roll. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — How, then, did Mr. Kinnard 
 know the amount for which Martin should be credited 
 on account of that note to which he has referred ? 
 
 Witness — If you will look at January or December 
 the 25th, about Christmas, you will find that anywhere 
 
374 HUGH KINNAED. 
 
 from the 25th to the Ist of January you will find a 
 credit there ; there it is. 
 Q. The ledger account is on page 199, and is closed December 
 31st, 1888? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — ISTow, from that time there ap- 
 pears to be no account anywhere of the amounts that 
 were paid to Martin. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — JSTothing on Mr. Martin's account. 
 Q. Now, what book did you refer to in speaking of the settle- 
 ment which you — . A. I didn't refer to any special book; I was 
 referring to that page — I paid him $100 on account and then give 
 him the credit on the note. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. Has that note been fully paid ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You have it in your possession yet 1 A. 1 have. 
 
 y. Do you recall how much has been paid on account thereof? 
 A. I think I have a memorandum that shows; about $650, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — When was the note given ? A. In 
 1888. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — So that in the six years' business his 
 commissions didn't eat up the note? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he have commissions or was it an actual allowance of 
 $100 a year? A. He had an actual allowance of $100 a year, 
 and a commission on the amount of business after all expenses 
 were paid. 
 
 Q. How often did you fix up the commissions with him ? A. 
 Once a year. 
 
 Q. At the close of the year ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Any statement made? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. How, then, could you determine the amount of business? 
 A. We took the inventory of the business, the invoice of the 
 business, and of course deducted the difference. 
 
 Q. By whom was that prepared, the statement ? A. It was 
 prepared by him and Van Houten here. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. When you closed up the partnership with Martin, doesn't 
 the books show that his interest in it was about $1,589, which 
 you paid him to get out? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How was it, then, that he was indebted to you $1,600? A. 
 That was interest and all ; I can produce the note. 
 
 Q. This looks as if he had an interest in there which you 
 ought to pay back ? A. No, sir ; he didn't have an interest; he 
 was indebted to me $1,600 that he had overdrawn. 
 
HUGH KINNARD. 375 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. And then he sold out his interest to you for that? A. Yes, 
 sir ; sold out his interest, which he agreed to pay me, and gave 
 me his note for the amount. 
 
 Q. What was the amount of his indebtedness to you at the 
 lime that he withdrew from the partnership ? A. About $1,600. 
 
 Q. Now, he had an interest in the partnership, didn't he ? A, 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. At the time of his withdrawal from the partnership he had 
 an interest in the partnership ? A. 1888. 
 
 Q. Yes, in 1888, there were three partners forming the part- 
 nership ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You bought out Caddock and paid him? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Martin was overdrawn ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To what extent ? A About $1,600. 
 
 Q. Now, then, isn't it a matter ot fact thct you just simply 
 said to him, " Your interest in this partnership is worth $1,600; 
 you are overdrawn $1,600, and that will end the business"? A. 
 No, sir; I didn't. I took his note for |1,600 and held it against 
 him, and continued him in the business. 
 
 Q. Then what was his interest in the partnership valued at ? 
 A. $1,600, thereabouts. 
 
 Q. Did he pay you that $1,600? A. No, sir; he was to pay 
 me tnat of the profits of his commission on the business. 
 
 Q. Why did he give you a note for $1,600 ? A. Simply to 
 «how that he was indebted to me, to close out his relations as a 
 partner with me in the business. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — On the first of January, 18§8, the 
 balance apparently due Mr. Martin on your books was $2,866.71, 
 and that during that year he drew $1,231.32, so that there was 
 still due him — instead, of his owing you, there was still due him 
 this amount of $1,589.18 balance ? A. Yes, sir ; that was not 
 the way it showed here ; it was right vice versa. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That was the amount Mr. Martin had 
 in the business ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Mr. Martin withdrew at that time 
 and had $1,600 in the business ; is that so ? A. No, sir, he 
 ■didn't ; he owed me $1,600 of overdrawn money. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Herbert) — Then he had no interest? A. No, 
 sir, he hadn't any interest ; he was indebted, or vice versa of 
 what that statement would show ; he was indebted to me. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — On some other matter that your 
 books don't show? A. Yes, sir. 
 
376 HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 Q. It was outside of this. According to your ledger this item 
 that was charged to you here was $],589.L8 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Corbin) — You mean he was indebted to you per- 
 sonally for the amount of $1,600 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But he did have an interest of about $1,600 in the busi- 
 ness? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Your books show that he had $1 ,589.18. I can't understand 
 yet why that note should be given. Have you got that note with 
 you? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. When was it dated ? A. 1889, is my recollection ; they 
 both went out ; this amount overdrew his account, and this man 
 was indebted to me. 
 
 Q. How did that indebtedness arise ? A. By overdrawing. 
 
 Q. It don't show by the books it was overdrawn ? J.. I know 
 it don't. 
 
 Q. He had an interest in the profits of $1,589.18. Now you 
 say his interest was worth about that, so that the note ought to 
 have been reversed? A. Well, that is the way it shows up, gen- 
 tlemen. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. In regard to this note of Martin's, of which you have 
 spoken, these books seem to show a settlement at the end of 
 December, 1888, when the partnership was dissolved, which left 
 a credit to Mr. Martin of nearly $1,600 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Which appears to have been paid to him and charged to 
 you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Or credited to you. Well, aren't you mistaken, then, 
 about saying that he gave a note ; he seemed not to be indebted 
 to your firm, but rather to be a creditor of your firm to the 
 extent of nearly $1,600. How do you explain that? A. Well, I 
 can only explain it by the fact that I hold a note against him 
 bearing about that amount ; I don't say it is just $1,600. 
 
 Q. When was that note given to you? A. My recollection is 
 that it was given in 1888. 
 
 Q. How did he come to get the money from you? A. Well, 
 he overdrew it diflerent times. 
 
 Q. Overdrew it from the firm ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, but the books show that he didn't ; the books show 
 that his profits were more than what he had drawn ? A. Well, I 
 think I can produce the note. 
 
 Q. I have no doubt of it; and have you made endorsements 
 on the back of payments ? A. No, sir, I haven't; it was strictly 
 a confidential matter, his whole transaction and mine in all those 
 years. 
 
HUGH KIXNARD. 377 
 
 Q. But you say the note has been reduced by payments to 
 some |600? A. Yes, sir; I do say so. 
 
 Q. Have you the record of those payments ? A. 1 can't say 
 that I have, but I think I can produce records. 
 
 Q. Can you tell how much they are? I wouldn't like to state 
 right here just how much they are ; I think about $600 or $650. 
 Q. How are they made out ? A. They were made up in vari- 
 ous ways from the amount; the difference between the $100 
 ought to be paid him on the first of each year, with the differ- 
 ence coming to him on the commission on the business. 
 
 Q. How do you account for it that that $100 doesn't appear in 
 your books as having been paid to Martin in each year ? A. 
 Just like our system of bookkeeping. 
 
 Q. How do you account for it that the profits do not appear to 
 have been passed to him since 1888 ? A. That is like other things 
 that appear. 
 
 Q. How could your cash balance, if it did so ? A. I don't sup- 
 pose it did, to be honest. 
 
 Q. It does, at the bottom of every page? A. Well, now, how 
 could it? 
 
 Q. That is what I am asking you? A. I can'i tell you ; I am 
 no bookkeeper; I don't claim to be a bookkeeper. 
 Q. I am no bookkeeper. 
 
 Senator Skirm — You may not be a bookkeeper, but 
 you know enough to know how to keep your accounts 
 and whether, after you got paid the money on this book 
 transaction of 1887, Mr. Martin is credited there with 
 the profits in the business, between $900 and $1,100, 
 and in the year 1888, when you balanced up, for $236 
 or $226, it is credited, and after the charges for the year 
 are all figured up the concern of H. Kinnard & Co. 
 owed him $1,589. Now, I want to know how you paid 
 Mr. Martin that money. Now, to say that you can't 
 recollect it will hardly do you credit as a business man. 
 A. Senator, I cannot recollect it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You mean to say that you can't tell 
 how you paid him that money? A. I can't; my recollection is 
 that he was indebted to me, or indebted to the firm. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees— What did he pay him for his 
 interest in the partnership? 
 Q. Senator Voorhees asks the question what you paid him for 
 his interest in the partnership ? A. 1 cou'dn't say as to that. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What was it valued at? A. 
 That I couldn't say. 
 
378 HUGH KINNAED. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Dou't the books show it was 
 valued at |1,600 ? 
 
 Senator Herbert — Mr. Kinnard has already testified 
 that it was valued at about $1,600. 
 
 A. I said Mr. Martin's indebtedness was about |1,600, 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — How did that indebtedness 
 arise? A. By overdrawing the account. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — It doesn't show on the books 
 that he overdrew? A. That is not his fault; that was the fault 
 of Caddock, the previous bookkeeper. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Oh, Mr. Kinnard. 
 
 Q. His original capital was $1,600 with the firm, was it? A. 
 I think so, sir. 
 
 Q. At one time he got half of it against — did he not? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Where does it appear that he 
 overdrew ? A. (No answer.) 
 
 Senator Skirm — His profits in the year 1888 were 
 only $i!28.80 ; isn't that so? 
 
 A. How much did he draw? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Didn't he get his profits, according to 
 the books, of $228.80? A. Very good; how much did he draw? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I only ask you wiiether that is cor- 
 rect? A. I presume he got it. 
 
 Q. (By. Senator Skirm) — Now, therefore, is it fair for this 
 Committee to presume for a moment that you simply deducted 
 10 per cent, from this State House job so that he wouldn't get a 
 little profit on that, when his profits for the year were only $228 ? 
 Why, it is simply absurd and ridiculous, and you know it. A. 
 No, sir, I don't know it. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — I want to know why the 10 per 
 cent, commission was allowed you. Wasn't it simply taking it 
 out of your own pocket? 
 
 Senator Skirm — Why, it was simply to give it into 
 the hands of " Barney " Ford. 
 
 A. If it went there, I am free to say I didn't do it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You know, Mr. Kinnard, that you 
 and Martin together simply bought " Barney " Ford and paid 
 him his commission, and you have been wasting the time of. this 
 Committee for two days instead of stating the facts that you 
 know ; that is ail. 
 
 Q. I draw your attention once more to cash book, page 65, to 
 the entry of January 21st, 1891, which you read, "Stor for S, 
 $250." Try and refresh your memory and say whether that was 
 
HUGH KINNAED. 379 
 
 not for a political contribution, |250. A. Now, Mr. Corbin, isn't 
 that " Stor " for " State House ? " 
 
 Q. I don't know. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I have iio doubt it come here, but it 
 don't say it there. 
 
 A. "Stor for State House." 
 
 Q. No; I want your memory on that thing. A. My memory 
 won't carry me. 
 
 Q. I can't believe that that $250 was taken out of your books 
 and your drawer without your knowing about it; think, now — 
 wasn't it given as a political contribution ? A. 1 couldn't say that. 
 
 Q. Well, then, take your own suggestion of it. State House, 
 $250 ; if it was for State House, who naturally got it ? A. Well, 
 it is fair to suppose that if it come to the State House that Mr. 
 Ford got it, but then I couldn't say that. 
 
 Q. But his name don't commence with S, and you suggested 
 at first a theory that S stands for somebody whose name begins 
 with S. E"ow, who do you think it went to ? A. If it went to 
 somebody whose name begins with an 8 it might have went to 
 Smith. 
 
 Q. Well, did it? A. 1 don't know. 
 
 Q. Why don't you know? A. My memory don't carry me; 
 I have had paralysis. 
 
 Q. Were moneys given to Smith? A. Not to my knowledge, 
 sir; I have no recollection. 
 
 Q. What is your best judgment now, whether it was the State 
 I-Iouse that got it, or Smith that got it? A. My best judgment 
 would be if anybody got it that Ford got it, but then I have no 
 proof that he did get it. 
 
 Q. Well, Smith wouldn't mean Ford, would it? A. No, sir; 
 nor Ford wouldn't mean Smith. 
 
 Q. You don't think it would get by either one of them to the 
 other ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you think it was Smith that was written there, or State 
 House? A. I think it was State House, I do, really; if that isn't 
 an S ; have you looked at that, sir. 
 
 Q. Yes? A. If that isn't an H, then I am mistaken, but I 
 couldn't say that. 
 
 Q. You think it is S H; you don't think it was Smith. 
 Look at it with that view and hold it up to the light, and see if it 
 wasn't that? A. No, sir, 1 think it is " State House." 
 
 Q. Well, did the store sometimes make contributions to causes 
 and have them charged that way to the store ? A. No, sir. 
 
380 HUGH KINNARD. 
 
 Q. 'Sot on general principles? A. Yes, they did ; yos, we did 
 once in a while ; excuse me. 
 
 (J. And you would charge it it up that way to the store ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It is a common thing, I believe ? A. Yes, sir, it is a com- 
 mon thing ; I think possibly you are right. 
 
 Q. This probably, then, is a contribution from the store, or, in 
 other words, from the business, for some cause or purpose or 
 other ? A. It is possible, but I wouldn't say it is probable, be- 
 cause I have no recollection. 
 
 Q. Can't you say something about it being entered in that way 
 to the store; it means the business has contributed? A. It is 
 possible. 
 
 Q. Well, you enter items that way in the store — A. I didn't 
 enter it. 
 
 Q. You see they are entered here in your books ? A. Yes, 
 sir; sometimes. 
 
 Q. Your firm, or your store, did at times contribute from the 
 common fund, didn't they, to some things ? A. Well, it is pos- 
 sible; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, now, after all you have said about it, do you recall 
 anything — does your memory carry you back to some of the cir- 
 cumstances? A. I can't say it does. 
 
 Q. Can you say with more certainty whether you brought it 
 down to Trenton? A. I brought no items to Trenton; now, 
 what did I bring to Trenton — ^what I mean is, any political 
 capital. 
 
 Q. Well, any personal capital? A. I wouldn't like to say; I 
 have donated for several purposes ; I was solicited here, for 
 instance, while we were working here, to buy a picture of the 
 surrounding grounds, which cost me a dollar — something of that 
 sort. 
 
 (^>. I don't find that in the books. 
 
 Senator Skirra — Your memory seems to be pretty 
 good on that, for a dollar ; it certainly ought to be 
 for some others where there is $426. A. 1 have no 
 recollection positive of giving up any money for political 
 capital in the city of Trenton. 
 
 Examined by Chaieman Voorhbes. 
 
 Q. Well, have you any in Newark? A. I don't think that 
 has any weight in this. Yes, I have given up many a time in 
 Newark. 
 
 Q. Isn't this time one of them ? A. No, sir. 
 
HUGH KINNABD. 381 
 
 Q. Why do you say it is not ? A. Because I know it is not ; 
 what I gave up in Newark was out of my personal pocket. 
 
 Q. Don't you know what it is? A. 'No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know the hardest witness to get the truth out of is 
 one who, when you press him to a point, will simply take refuge 
 in the statement, " I don't remember " ? Everybody knows that. 
 Now, you remember a little item, as Senator Skirm says, of one 
 dollar, but when it comes to a check of $250 your mind is a per- 
 fect blank. It is a matter of moment that such an item should 
 appear in your books. A. I think this man has evidently de- 
 ceived me as regards those entries, and has paid out my good 
 money where I was not consulted; tnat is honest. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. He got plenty of good money from the State House to pay 
 it with. Now, then, the unfortunate feature of the whole case is 
 this, that every one of those big checks were given to you and 
 by you cashed, except one of them? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This one in the cash book is " Stor for S, $250." Now, if 
 you go to the stub book, it reads this way, "By deduction on 
 State House, $250." 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — What does Mr. Kinnard mean 
 by " deduction on State House " ? 
 
 A. Well, I tried to explain here that it meant a commission 
 that I was to receive for superintending the work. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Then, why not say commission? 
 A. Well, I can't explain any more to you than it don't say so. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did Martin understand that it 
 was a commission? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Why didn't he write it commis- 
 sion ? J.. I wouldn't tell you. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Why did he say " deduction " ? 
 A. I can't say, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In other places he called it " expenses," 
 and " wages " in still another place. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And then with the F obliterated 
 from the check. 
 
 Q. Have you any doubt in your own mind that this man Mar- 
 tin really gave this money to Mr. Ford, or substantially all of it ? 
 A. Well, now, to be candid and frank, I tell you that it begins 
 to look to me, from the showing here to-day, as though he had 
 given money to Mr. Ford ; but to tell yon that I know it, I don't 
 know ; I am not telling you so, because I don't know it. 
 
382 HUGH KINNAKD. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. Don't you see, for the reputation that you have of being an 
 honorable, upright dealer in Newark, and the reputation that you 
 want to keep, don't you see that the best way is simply to make 
 a frank statement ? If you know it, say so ; and if you don't, 
 say so. A. I don't know it. 
 
 Q. We all have wicked partners, and we ought not to be 
 visited with their sins. A. This man evidently had access to my 
 money, which Mr. Corbin don't dispute, that I kept anywhere 
 from a hundred to two hundred and three hundred dollars in my 
 credit in my safe. 
 
 Q. Would you think there was anything particularly wrong in 
 paying 10 per cent, or 25 per cent, on a public job ? A. No, sir, 
 I wouldn't, the way things is done now-a-days ; 1 say, frankly, 
 that it is nothing outside of the regular routine way of doing 
 business; I have been repeatedly waited on and told that if I 
 wouldn't give up 5 or 10 per cent. I wouldn't get any consider- 
 ation. 
 
 Q. And you think that is pertectly right? A. I don't say it 
 is, to be honest with you. Senator; I never agreed to do it; I 
 don't want business bad enough. 
 
 Q. What is your view about padding bills, as these bills evi- 
 dently have been padded, raising the amount and falsifying the 
 amounts ? tI. I don't approve of that, sir ; I don't think that 
 is right; I don't think it is straight. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. If Martin did give this money to Ford, how did he get 
 hold of it? A. Well, he got hold of it by taking my cash out 
 of ray safe. 
 
 Q. He didn't get hold of what you had cashed on these checks 
 I have shown you, did he ? A. No, sir; I stated that I had them 
 personally. 
 
 Q. So that if he did pay Ford from this money, he must have 
 pilfered it out of your cash in some part and in some way have 
 covered it up in these balances? A. It would look so. 
 
 Q. Do you seriously want to make that charge against Mr. 
 Martin? A. I do not, sir; I don't make that charge against 
 him ; I can't afford to make that charge. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. You state that it is customary in public contracts to exact 
 a commission of 5 or 10 per cent. Where does that custom pre- 
 vail ? A. Well, Senator, I don't say — 1 want to qualify — I don't 
 want to say it is customary, but I say — 
 
HUGH KINNARD. 383 
 
 Q. It has be been done ? A. it has been done. 
 
 Q. I mean on behalf of the State; you refer to the State bills? 
 A. Yes, sir; or any other bills. 
 
 Q. Who tried to stand you up for 5 per cent, on the State 
 bills? A. N"obody. 
 
 Q. You said you had been approached 1 A. 1 said it was a 
 common custom in a business way. 
 
 Q. If I didn't misunderstand you, you said you had been ap- 
 pealed to for 5 or 10 per cent. ? A. In various ways. 
 
 Q. Didn't you state you had propositions made to you to that 
 efiect? A. I have had, but — I have had in connection with city 
 and county, I can't say with State. 
 
 Q. That 18, in the city of Newark ? A. Well, I never accepted 
 of it. 
 
 Examined by Mr. C'orbin. 
 
 Q. That was long ago, I suppose t A. 1 don't know, not so 
 long ago. 
 
 Q. About how long ago ? A. Oh, well, within the last five or 
 ten years. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Your memory seems to be remark- 
 able. 
 
 Witness — I say I have been solicited that way, gentle- 
 men. 
 Q. Senator Daly raises an interesting question, and I will ask 
 a question which will bring this out. Were these people who 
 appealed to you for commission on public work, Prohibitionists, 
 Democrats, Republicans or Mugwumps? A. That I couldn't 
 answer. 
 
 Q. You didn't stop to inquire of their politics? A. No, sir. 
 Recess. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Chairman, I desire to call the atten- 
 tion of the Committee to some expenditures under chap- 
 ter 137 of the laws of 1892, being an act establishing 
 the State Board of Arbitration. It is found on page 
 238 of the pamphlet laws of that year. This act first 
 provides for the formation as contingencies arise, of cer- 
 tain local boards of arbitration and for their powers and 
 duties. The sixth section provides that the Governor 
 should appoint three competent persons, each of whom 
 should hold his office for the term of five years ; one of 
 whom should be selected from some bona fide labor 
 organization of this State. The Board should have a 
 
384 JOHN W. BOMAINE. 
 
 Secretary whose duties are prescribed, and an office in 
 the Capitol. The procedure of the Board in inquiring 
 into and adjudicating upon any labor troubles, is pro- 
 vided for. It is provided also that the parties to any 
 grievance or labor trouble, may, in vpriting, submit their 
 differences to the Board, and the Board, after hear- 
 ing them, should, at the expiration of ten days, 
 file a decision in writing which should be filed with 
 the county clerk of the county where the trouble 
 arose and copies given to the parties. They have 
 a right, also, to inquire into strikes where the mat- 
 ter is not submitted to their decision, and to call 
 witnesses. The 12ih section provides that they shall 
 annually report to the Legislature, and include in their 
 report such statements, facts and explanations as will 
 disclose the actual working of the Board, and other 
 suggestions. The 13th section provides that each arbi- 
 trator shall receive $10 for each and every day actually 
 employed in the performance of their duties, and actual 
 expenses incurred, including such rates of mileage as 
 are now provided by law, payable by the State Treas- 
 urer on duly approved vouchers. I find that this Board 
 was organized in December, 1892, practically assuming 
 their duties with the beginning of the year 1893. They 
 filed no report at the end of 1893 and their report for 
 the year 1894 is not yet extant, except that certain ad- 
 vance sheets have been printed, of which I have obtained 
 a copy. I' don't know whether the report itself, which 
 is here spoken of, was actually submitted to the Legis- 
 lature or not ; probably the Senators will know. 
 
 The Chairman — Printed copies were laid on our 
 desk. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is, these advance sheets ? 
 
 The Chairman — Yes; no report has been submitted 
 to us. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Then there is no report but this on file, 
 so far as I know. 
 
 John W. Romaine, sworn. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Paterson. 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Well, I am — that is pretty 
 general — I have no particular occupation now. 
 
 Q. What has been your occupation ? .4. For many years back? 
 
JOHN W. EOMAINE. 385 
 
 Q. As many as you please. A. I have practically done nothing 
 in the last four or five years ; prior to that I was with the Erie 
 Kailroad for twenty years. 
 
 Q. You are the Secretary of the State Board of Arbitration ? 
 A. I was. 
 
 Q. Have you brought the record of the Board which you were 
 Bubpcenaed to bring? J.. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where is it? ^. By direction of the Comptroller it was 
 delivered to the firm of Lockwood & Co. last Tuesday, to be 
 shipped to Trenton ; all the papers and records. 
 
 Q. Did you have a book of records? A. Well, yes, there was 
 a book of records and many papers. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Captain Graham, will you go into the 
 Comptroller's office and ask, on behalf of the Committee, 
 for the records of the State Board of Arbitration? 
 
 Witness — I hardly think they are here ; they were 
 shipped last Tuesday. 
 
 Q. Who is Lockwood ? A. Lockwood & Co., furniture 
 dealers, of Paterson. 
 
 Q. It is quite time for them to be here ? A. Desks and chairs 
 and books, and all that sort of thing. 
 
 Q. Did you keep the book of minutes of the Board ? A . Yes, 
 eir ; that is also among the other papers. 
 
 Q. What other books, if any? A. That is all. 
 
 Q. Have you your subpoena here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You were summoned to bring a copy of such circulars as 
 have been issued by the Board ; have you them with you ? A. 
 No, sir ; they are all with the other papers ; I haven't any papers 
 belonging to the State. 
 
 Q. And as I understand you, the Board has no records except 
 this one book of minutes ? A. Well, the records of each in- 
 dividual case are filed with the other documents, memorandums, 
 testimony taken; the report has been delivered to the Comp- 
 troller ; I presume it is in the hands of the printer. 
 
 Q. It has been ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It was not submitted to the Legislature directly, then ? A. 
 No, sir, not directly ; it was given to the Comptroller according 
 to his request — by his request. 
 
 Q. When was it given to him ? A. 1 think in the latter part 
 of January ; I am not positive about that ; his office will show 
 the date of delivery. 
 
 Q. Was it not submitted to the Houses of the Legislature ? A, 
 No, sir. 
 
 25 SH 
 
386 JOSEPH p. m'donnell. 
 
 Q. The law is perfectly explicit that it should be submitted to 
 the Legislature? A. Not knowing how to proceed in such mat- 
 ters, I went to the Comptroller, and was guided by his advice j 
 that is simply the preface of the report. 
 
 Q. I see this is addressed to the Legislature ? A. Yes, sir. 
 By the advice of the Comptroller, it was left in his office, 
 as he said that was the usual way of procedure. 
 
 Q. How large a volume is it? A. 1 couldn't tell you, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you not see it ? A. Yes, sir ; I wrote it. 
 
 Q. Then give me an idea ? J.. I couldn't tell you. 
 
 Q. Is it as large as this one ? A. That is only the preface of 
 the report. 
 
 Q. I am asking you. A. It hasn't been printed ; I don't know 
 how large a book it will make. 
 
 Q. You don't know whether it will have more or less volume 
 than this? A. Yes; it will have more. 
 
 Q. Did you write both of them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much larger than this? A. The manuscript report, 
 probably, on ordinary writing paper, would make a package as 
 high as that (indicating about six or eight inches) ; I presume it 
 would be a book about the size of the ordinary legislative docu- 
 ments ; probably an inch and a half in thickness when printed 
 complete. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman) — 100 pages? A. I should judge so. 
 
 Joseph P. McDonnell, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Paterson, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you resided there ? A. About 18 years. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Journalist and publisher. 
 
 Q. You publish a newspaper at Paterson ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And have for some years past? A. Yes, sir; 17 to 18 
 years. 
 
 Q. 17 years in the city of Paterson. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You were the President of the State Board of Arbitration t 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where is your office in Paterson? A. 219 and 221 Dundee 
 avenue. 
 
 Q. How long have you been located there ? A. Well, in that 
 vicinity about four to five years. 
 
 Q. And the office of the State Board of Arbitration was there 
 also? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The law provided for an office in the Capitol ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But none was provided for you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnell. 3S7 
 
 Q. And therefore your office was in Paterson? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I draw your attention to sections 1 and 8 of the act under 
 which your Board was created, which provides that any grievance 
 or dispute arising between employers and employees might be 
 submitted in writing by the parties to the decision of your Board. 
 Did any employers or employees ever sign such an agreement 
 and submit their grievances to your Board? A. For arbitra- 
 tion? 
 
 Q. Yea. A. I think it has been done in a few cases; very 
 rare, though. 
 
 Q. Can you naipe one ? A. "Well, I believe it was in the case 
 of the granite cutters with their employing contractor; he did 
 some work on the city hall in the city of Paterson ; but that is 
 since the last fiscal year. 
 
 Q. Who were the employers? A. I really can't remember 
 the name of the employers; it was the granite cutters' trouble. 
 
 Q. You don't remember the name of the employers with whom 
 they had the difference? A. "Well, it was the contractor — the 
 gentleman who had the contract for the granite work on the city 
 hall at Paterson. 
 
 Q. And they signed an agreement submitting to your arbitra- 
 tion ? A. IsTo, sir, they didn't both request us to arbitrate; it 
 was settled satisfactorily. 
 
 Q. The first section provides for such submission to the county 
 boards ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the 8th section provides that submission to the State 
 Board may be had it the parties desire it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Kow, has there been a single case in which the employers 
 and employes have signed an agreement to submit their diflEer- 
 ences to the arbitration of your Board ? A. Not in which em- 
 ployer and employes, no sir; not to my recollection. 
 
 Q. It has been one party alone? A. One party alone, as a 
 rule. 
 
 Q. So that there has really been, then, no submission to your 
 arbitration during the period of your Board ? A. Well, practi- 
 cally not. 
 
 Q. And really not ? A. Really not. 
 
 Q. ISTow, if you will refer to the 9th section you will find that 
 when such a submission is made, you are to decide within ten 
 days after the conclusion of the testimony, and to put your deci- 
 sion in writing, and to file it with the County Clerk ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Have you filed any such decision with any County Clerk? 
 
388 I JOSEPH p. m'donnell. 
 
 A. No, sir ; because there has been no case where both sides 
 Have agreed to arbitrate, up to the end of the last fiscal year. 
 
 Q. By that you mean up to October 31st, 1894? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was for the first two years of your operations ? A. 
 Tee, sir; 
 
 Q. In no case did the employers and employes both agree to 
 arbitration ? A. That is correct. 
 
 Q. ITow speak of the period since that time; have any signed 
 and submitted to you ? A. ITo, sir; the papers were not signed ; 
 simply the case of those gentlemen who had the contract for the 
 granite work on the city hall of Paterson, and we would simply 
 be called into the case and requested to settle it privately. 
 
 (^. Called in by both sides? A. By the granite cutters, in the 
 first place, with tue consent of the contractor. 
 
 §. And your good offices were successful? A. Yes, but no 
 papers were signed. 
 
 Q. And that is the only case you have in mind where both the 
 employers and employees requested your interference ? A. 
 Well, there may be some other cases, but not where papers were 
 signed ; now, for instance, I can give you a case — 
 
 Q. I am asking you whether there was any case in which both 
 joined to ask your arbitration? A. Yes, sir; in one case Mr. 
 Eobert Adams, of the firm of R. & H. Adams, requested — called 
 me up by telephone and requested me to call the Board to meet 
 him, and to call a meeting of the Board with a view to the settle- 
 ment of the trouble between himself and his employees. 
 
 Q. Did the employees also apply? A. No, sir; then we met 
 them at his request. 
 
 Q. But you were called in in that case by the employer ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Usually it is by the employed? A. Yes, sir; usually by 
 the employes. 
 
 Q. At the end of the first year of your operations you made 
 no report to the Legislature, did you? A. Well, we furnished a 
 synopsis ; that was all ; it was impossible to make a lengthy 
 report, because, at that time — 
 
 Q. To whom did you furnish that synopsis? A. Well, I 
 believe it was the secretary — he knows better than I do ; it was 
 sent to the Comptroller, I believe. 
 
 §. The only report which you have made, which is in print, 
 is the one of January, 1895? A. No, sir; that is not a report; 
 that is simply a preface to the report; that is not an advance 
 sheet; that is not the report. 
 
JOSEPH p m'donnell. 389 
 
 Q. This is the preface to the report that is forthcoming? A. 
 Yes, sir; the Comptroller has had that in his possession, and had 
 that printed. 
 
 Q. You say here the synopsis of the workings of the Board 
 was printed in December, 1893, and a copy, together with the 
 circulars, was mailed to each member of the Legislature, all the 
 State officers and the press. That is the synopsis to which yon 
 refer ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, that, together with this document I hold in my hand, 
 the preface of January, 1895, is all the report that is at this 
 moment available ? A. Yes, sir ; but the report — we have 
 already furnished a report; it is in the hands of the State. 
 
 Q. The report you have furnished is the one Mr. Romaine has 
 mentioned as being given to the Comptroller ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You haven't transmitted to the Legislature any report save 
 this? A. We done what we were told to do, furnish it to the 
 Comptroller; we simply acted under instructions. 
 
 Q. When was that? A. Some months ago. 
 
 Q. It was during the session of the Legislature ? A. No, sir; 
 it was before that ; we inquired about it. 
 
 Q. Wasn't it as late as the latter part of January and first of 
 February ? A. That we furnished the report ? 
 
 Q. Yes ? A. Yes, sir: the report was furnished at that time, 
 but we made inquiry before that time as to who it should be sent 
 to, and were told it should be sent to the Comptroller. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman') — Was any report furnished to the Legisla- 
 ture of 1894? A. ISTo, sir; excepting the synopsis referred to 
 by Mr. Corbin ; I think Mr. Corbin asked rae the reason for 
 that. At that time we were engaged and after that time and 
 about that time with the Lehigh Valky trouble and some other 
 large strikes ; it was utterly impossible ; the secretary had to 
 attend all the meetings of the Board, and the Board was engaged 
 regularly, and without the members neglecting entirely their 
 own affairs; I was one was unable to do it; we couldn't furnish 
 it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — What authority had you to act 
 where the request had not been preferred in writing by both 
 parties? A. Well, sir. Section 10 of the law is mandatory. 
 
 Q. What does that say? A. It doesn't give us any option in 
 matter at all; it provides that we shall do so and so in all cases 
 of strikes or threatened strikes. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will read Section 10 : " That whenever 
 a strike or lockout shall occur, or is seriously threatened, 
 in any part of the State, and shall come to the knowl- 
 
390 JOSEPH p. m'donnell. 
 
 edge of tbe Board, it shall be its duty, and it is hereby 
 directed to proceed, as soon as practicable, to the locality 
 of such strike or lockout, and put ^themselves in com- 
 munication with the parties to the controversy, and 
 endeavor by mediation to effect an amicable settlement 
 of such controversy; and if in their judgment it is 
 deemed best, to inquire into the cause or causes of the 
 controversy, and to that end, the Board is hereby 
 authorized to subpoeua witnesses, compel their attend- 
 ance, and send for persons and papers, in like manner, 
 and with the same powers as it is authorized to do by 
 Section 8, of this act." 
 
 Section 8 gives power to subpoena witnesses, produc- 
 tion of books and papers to the same extent and with 
 such power as is possessed by courts of record and the 
 judges thereof in this State. 
 
 I ask the Committee's attention to the expenditures of 
 the Board. In the fisc'al year of 1893 they were $7,- 
 960.46 ; for the fiscal year of 1894, $12,824.30, as taken 
 from the printed reports of the State Treasurer. I wish 
 to ask a few questions with reference to some of these 
 expenditures, and I may say that the method pursued 
 seems to be this : Each member of the Board, peri- 
 odically, usually monthly, rendered to the State a bill 
 for his per diem charge, his mileage and his expenses, 
 and it was paid. The Secretary of the Board did the 
 same thing, and other expenses of the Board, such as 
 printing, stationery and other things were paid by bills 
 rendered directly to the State and approved by the 
 Board. 
 Q. I show the first bill rendered to the State, December 26th, 
 1892, for a part of the month of December, being for |221.16 ; 
 I see your first item is December 6th, 1892, Paterson to Trenton 
 and return, 146 miles ten cents, $14.60 ; compensation, one day 
 $10 ; total, $24.60. Where did you find the law for that charge ? 
 A. Well, I desire to state very frankly where I find it and where 
 we found it ; I am not a lawyer and the other members of the 
 Board are not lawyers, neither is the Secretary. We went to the 
 Governor of the State in order to find out what we should legiti- 
 mately charge. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — For your mileage ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You knew what you paid? A. No, 
 sir; the law states that we shall charge mileage, and we thought 
 it would be a very proper thing to go to the Governor of the 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnell. 391 
 
 ■State, or some other authority, and ask for information on the 
 subject, and I think no person would condemn us for doing that. 
 We went to the Governor of the State, and he told us that he 
 supposed we should charge the same as the Supreme Court 
 Judges or other Judges in this State, who are paid 10 cents per 
 mile, and I understand, too, receive passes from the State, as well 
 as members of the militia and the State Board of Canvassers, if 
 I am not mistaken very much ; and we thought certainly that we 
 were just as good as the Judges, although we were members of a 
 labor Board, and that we were just as much entitled to mileage 
 as they were, but we didn't take advantage of that. We asked 
 the Governor his opinion, and he told us, until further instruc- 
 tions, we should charge 10 cents per mile. 
 
 Q. Are you aware that the Judges of the Supreme Court get 
 no mileage at all ? A. No, sir ; I am only stating — 
 
 Q. You refer, do you not, to the Lay Judges of the Court of 
 Errors and Appeals? A. Excuse me, that is what I mean. 
 
 Q. They, I believe, are paid |8 a day and 10 cents a mile for 
 traveling? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They are the only people in the State that I know of who 
 get ten cents a mile for traveling ? 
 
 The Chairman — Does Mr. McDonnell mean to state 
 that they have passes and charge mileage as well? 
 
 A. So I have been informed. 
 
 Q. They have passts also? A. Yes, sir; sol have been in- 
 formed ; I believe it is true. 
 
 The Chairman — Where are we coming to ? 
 
 Q. At the time you made that charge were you engaged in 
 arbitration matters ? A. Yes, sir; certainly. 
 
 Q. Was that strike here in Trenton ? A. It wasn't in Trenton. 
 
 Q. That is mileage from Paterson to Trenton? A. Well, at 
 that time, I can't state ; at that date I can't really state what 
 that was; possibly the letter accompanying the bill will state 
 that; I can't remember that. We requested the Governor to 
 give his opinion in the matter and we acted under his instruc- 
 tions. 
 
 Q. Who was Governor then ? A. Governor Abbett. 
 
 Q. That was the way the matter of mileage was charged? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly)— Who audited your bills? A. The 
 Comptroller. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I may say, for the benefit of the Sena- 
 tor, that this first bill is approved by the Board. " J. 
 P. McDonnell, President. Approved, Leon Abbett, 
 
392 JOSEPH p. m'donnell. 
 
 Governor." Then the warrant is drawn. There is do 
 approval by anybody else upon it ; that is the first one. 
 About this matter of charges, 1 think we should be 
 clear just what the law is. The thirteenth section of this 
 act says, " Each arbitrator of the state board, and the 
 secretary thereof, shall receive $10 for each and every 
 day actually employed in the performance of their 
 duties herein, and actual expenses incurred, including 
 such rates of mileage as are now provided by law, pay- 
 able by the state treasurer on duly approved vouchers." 
 Q. I^ow, the next item in this bill, December 15th, 16th and 
 17th, Paterson to Camden and return, 212 miles, $21.20, and 
 compensation for three days, $30 ; charged on the same basis, T 
 suppose ? A. Yes, sir, T guess bo ; it was some two or three 
 months after the appointment of the Board. 
 
 Q. Then I see, also, at the foot of the bill, for actual expenses 
 during these days, 11 days at $3 per day. Then your construc- 
 tion of it was that you paid your actual expenses in addition to 
 the ten cents per mile for traveling, was it ? A. Yes, sir ; you 
 mean that we had. 
 
 Q. You charged, first, your $10 per day? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Second, ten cents per mile for every mile that you traveled? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Thirdly, your actual expenses paid out? A. Yes, sir; that 
 was our construction of it ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is the fare from Paterson to Trenton and return by 
 the usual route traveled ? ^. I think $3.45, or about that — 
 something like that ; $3.50. 
 
 Q. But the mileage charged at this rate is $14.60 ? A. At ten 
 cents per mile ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You were not wicked enough to 
 travel on a pass, were you ? A. On a free pass ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. No, sir; I never traveled on a free pass in my 
 life. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Why do you distinguish it as a 
 free pass? A. There are free passes and passes. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What is the difference? A. 
 The difference is, a pass is a ticket for which you give no con- 
 sideration — a free pass. 
 
 Q. Did you travel on this ? A. No, sir ; never in my life. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What is the other kind of pass ? A. 
 A pass or a ticket is a ticket you receive and pay for ; I have 
 traveled upon such tickets ; I get a ticket from the Erie Railroad ; 
 
JOSEPH p, m'donnell. 393 
 
 receive three every year, or four, possibly |80, and I give them 
 equivalent for it. 
 
 Q. That is, they give you a pass? A. Yes; I have a contract 
 with the road, my paper has, to publish their advertisements, and 
 receive as part of the income of the paper a ticket on the road, 
 but no free passes; I receive no free passes. 
 
 Q. That has been so for some years past? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. So, as a matter of fact, when you would go from Paterson 
 to Jersey City you didn't have to pay any money, but the consid- 
 eration is paid by the newspaper in certain printing? A. Yes, 
 sir, that is correct. 
 
 Q. So that there is no outgo at all in your traveling ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did this cover any other roads in the State? A. It covers 
 the Erie, the Pennsylvania, the Susquehanna and West Jersey ; 
 no other road. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then in other words, when you came 
 from Paterson to Trenton you really didn't buy any ticket, but 
 simply use the tickets you have ? A. The ticket which I had 
 paid for — which my concern has paid for. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Isn't that known as a press pass? 
 A. No, sir; it costs me every year just as much as I would pay 
 for a ticket, to publish the advertisements of the railroads and 
 their reading notices ; I am under no obligation to any road in 
 this State. It seems you would imply that I received a pass for 
 nothing; I did not; I give an equivalent for what I receive. 
 
 Q. Would you mind, if you happen to have it in your pocket, 
 to show us the pass? A. Certainly I will; I have a contract 
 with the road for the publication — at least ray paper has. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This first pass that Mr. McDonnell has 
 shown is marked "Annual pass. Pass J. P. McDonnell, 
 of Labor Standard, Paterson, over United Railroads 
 Division; not good on ferries or in Chicago Limited. 
 Good until December 31st, 1895." The one on the 
 Lehigh Valley is good on all stations in New Jersey ; 
 substantially the same. The N. Y., S. & W. is good 
 over the entire line, apparently, and the West Jersey 
 road is simply a plain pass. I guess every member of 
 the Committee has something like that in his pocket. 
 Senator Skirm — What I want to understand is whether, 
 when Mr. McDonnell left Paterson and came to Trenton, 
 for which he charged $14.60 — whether you use these 
 sort of passes, and therefore pay no money out of your 
 pocket for them ? 
 
394 JOSEPH p. m'donnell. 
 
 A. Yes, sir; I certainly did ; unquestionably. 
 
 Q. And one here which you refer to is to J. P. McDonnell and 
 wife? A. Yes, sir; we have to enter into a contract to publish 
 the advertisements for one year and whatever reading notices 
 they sent it; we don't get it for nothing. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Are you the owner of the paper 
 or is it owned by the company ? A:. I am part owner. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — But the $14 mileage you 
 received you took to your own account ? A. The pass is given 
 to me ; if I should be succeeded in the paper by anybody else I 
 would not have that pass, it would be turned over to my 
 successor; it is part of my income. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — The payment for the pass was 
 in consideration of work done by the stock company, the pass 
 extended to you personally ? A. l^o, the pass isn't extended to 
 me personally ; it is to the paper, and then I receive it while 
 acting as editor; if I should retire from that position, whoever 
 succeeds me will have the pass. It is part of my income, given 
 to me by my paper — by my people. 
 
 Q. I refer to the preface of your report and read as follows : 
 " From the start obstacles have confronted us. An office in the 
 capitol could not be obtained, though several applications have 
 been made. Passes were applied for, but information came back 
 that we were not entitled. to them; hence the amount expended 
 for transportation in necessary traveling greatly swells the total 
 expenses of the Board." That then does not refer to you 
 particularly, does it ; you had passes enough for your purposes ? 
 A. "Well, that refers to the State passes; we applied to the State 
 for passes; we applied to the Secretary of State, and he replied 
 to us that we were not entitled, under that law, to passes. 
 
 Q. li a, man has got a pass in his pocket that is good for a 
 year, does it make any difference, in the matter of expense to 
 him, how often he travels, or in what particular capacity he con- 
 siders himself to be traveling; a pass is a pass, isn't it? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. If all the railroads had sent you another pass, you would 
 have been no better off for traveling than you are now? A. I 
 guess not. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact, as you say here, " hence the amount 
 expended for transportation in necessary traveling greatly swells 
 the total expense of the Board ;" it wasn't swelled at all in your 
 particular case ? A. The tickets I held from the railroads had 
 nothing to do with the mileage business. 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnell. 395 
 
 Q. But you don't mean to tell me that you actually paid your 
 lare while you had those in your pocket? A. Not on these 
 roads ; these are good up there. 
 
 §. They cover substantially all that are worth having? A, 
 No, sir ; I pay my fare from Trenton to Philadelphia, going to 
 Camden. 
 
 Q. That is, you have to pay the ferriage from Philadelphia to 
 Camden ? A. No, sir ; once you enter the State of Pennsyl- 
 vania, your pass is no good. 
 
 Q. But if you go by way of Camden, you go free and will only 
 have to pay ferriage from Camden to Philadelphia ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What had the arbitrators to do 
 with going over to Philadelphia ? A. Then I pay my fare. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Does it cease here if you go 
 over the river? A. Yes. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I thought the proper wrinkle 
 
 was to get off here and go down inside the State. 
 
 Q. Do you happen to know whether any of the other members 
 
 of the Board had passes ot any kind, free or otherwise ? A. No, 
 
 I believe that — 1 don't know that the other members of the 
 
 Board had passes ; not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Mr. Doyle was a railroad employee ? A. Mr. Doyle is an 
 
 engineer in the employe of the Central Railroad ; I never knew 
 
 him to present a pass, to my knowledge ; he may have done so. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — How about Roberson ? A. Rober- 
 
 son, I don't know that he ever had a pass. 
 
 Q. When you speak of the amount expended for transporta- 
 tion being greatly swelled, you refer more particularly to the 
 other two members of the Board and the Secretary ? A. No, 
 we refer to all ; that matter doesn't come into consideration 
 at all. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — I suppose, if you had State passes, you 
 wouldn't be under obligation to contract for printing? A. Not 
 at all. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Therefore it was swelled on that prin- 
 ciple ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Let's figure that out. 
 Senator Daly — Mr. McDonnell entered into a contract 
 with the railroad company to publish their advertise- 
 ments for them, and as an equivalent he got railroad 
 passes; now if he got State passes he certainly wouldn't 
 enter into the contract; he would be paid for what he 
 done for the railroad company ; that is plain enough ; 
 he certainly wouldn't have charged mileage to the State. 
 
396 JOSEPH p. M DONNELL. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do you do all the printing in your 
 paper for the railroad companies without any compensation ex- 
 cepting these passes ? A. Yes, sir; entirely. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You don't get any pay whatever ? A. 
 The composition costs money, and the office that I run is a union 
 office, where the best rate of wages is paid, and every change 
 made in an advertisement has to- be paid for, and the changes 
 are almost every week ; and the reading notices are almost every 
 week, too, and they have to be put in. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Instead of taking cash you take a pass? 
 A. Instead of taking cash the payment is made in a ticket. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — If you had State passes — A. Would 
 have charged for mileage ; that is a private matter altogether ; it 
 has got nothing to do with this in the world ; just the same as if 
 I purchased a commutation ticket and paid $100 for it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I understood you to say your con- 
 tracts amounted to about $80 a year. A. No, sir; I said in some 
 cases, in the case of the Erie railroad pass; there a thousand- 
 mile ticket is worth $20; if I received four tickets in the year it 
 would be worth $80. 
 
 Q. And you get four tickets ? A. Yes, I can get five, very 
 likely, if I had extra work, making $100, but I am limited to that. 
 
 Q. You have a contract with the Pennsylvania? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And other roads on the same principle. What is the 
 advertisement worth on the Pennsylvania road? A. I think the 
 chances are that an ordinary business man would pay me more 
 than they are paying me. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Do you advertise the Lehigh 
 Valley ? A. Yes, sir ; the same contract, regular contract with 
 them? 
 
 Q. Are their advertisements inserted in the paper ? A. 
 Certainly, every week. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Time-table ? A. Yes, sir ; no, it isn't 
 time-table in that case, it is simply giving the addresses of the 
 stations; it is generally a common advertisement of the road, 
 but time-table on all the other roads. 
 
 Q. This second bill, paid in the month of February, 1893, for 
 $275.76 ; the same remarks with reference to traveling apply to 
 this? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — What is the amount of the traveling 
 expenses on that? 
 
 Mr. Corbin— $110 is the per diem out of the $225; 
 the rest is for traveling or other expenses. 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnbll. 397 
 
 Senator Skirm— Then this 11 days at $110 and $175 
 expenses is railroad travel and so on? 
 
 Mr. Corbiu — Yes, sir ; then there is in this bill, at the 
 end oi it, |28.75 for telephone for the quarter. 
 Q. Where was that telephone ? A. In the office. 
 Q. That is, in your office in Paterson? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. The Board paid for your telephone, did they ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; the State paid for it, but we asked permission to have it put 
 in ; and it was necessary, as telephones are necessary in commer- 
 cial life, and we asked permission to put it in and were granted 
 that permission. 
 
 Q. I see you traveled to Woodbine once or more? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you go therefor? A. Big strike in the cloak 
 
 makers; all the people who lived down there, in fact, were on 
 
 strike ; nobody else lived down there, and we settled that strike 
 
 too. 
 
 Q. January 9th and 10th, Paterson to Trenton and return, 146 
 miles; that was on the occasion of the opening of the legisla- 
 ture on Tuesday, wasn't it? A. 1 couldn't really say. 
 Q. Yes, I think you will find that it is Tuesday. 
 
 Senator Daly — It is possible they came down here 
 then. 
 
 Chairman of Committee — ^Yes, but we had no strikes 
 here. 
 
 Witness — You must remember, Senator, that the 
 Board, to carry on its business, had to meet once in a 
 while. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — What was the earthly use of the 
 Board meeting down here on the opening night of the 
 Legislature ; there were strikers here, but they were 
 not under your province. 
 Q. I draw your attention to the third bill, paid April, 1893, and 
 I find these items : January 16th and 17th, Paterson and Tren- 
 ton, mileage, 146 miles, and two days' service and two days' 
 hotel expenses, $3 per day ; you will find by referring to the 
 calendar that that is Monday and Tuesday, that is $40.60 ; a week 
 later, Monday and Tuesday again, January 23d and 24th, the 
 same, and. then the 25lh and 26th to Bayonne ; but a week later 
 again, January 30th to 31st, to Trenton and back; and again, 
 February 6th and 7th, Trenton and back; and again, February 
 13th and 14th, to Trenton and back ; and again, February 27th 
 aud 28th, to Trenton and back; and so again ou March 6th and 
 7th ; now, I find that those are all Mondays and Tuesdays ; as 
 u matter of fact, those are trips from Paterson to Trenton to at- 
 
398 JOSEPH p. M DONNELL. 
 
 tend the Monday evening session of the Legislature and the 
 Tuesday morning return to Paterson, are they not "i A. I think 
 not. 
 
 Q. Well, what then did you go for? A. Well, this was the 
 proper place for the Board to meet ; we had the use temporarily 
 of a room here, the Subway Commission room ; we were permitted 
 to go in there until we were turned out, which frequently was the 
 case, by the Subway Commissioners or some other Commis- 
 sioners. 
 
 Q. The Subway Commissioners turned you out ? A. Some 
 Commissioners turned us out. 
 
 Q. Who were those Subway Commissioners ? A. Mr. McDer- 
 mott, Mr. Smith and Mr. Ross ; their room was there, anyhow. 
 
 Q. Tou were entitled by law to rooms; why were you turned 
 out ? A. By these gentlemen and others. 
 
 Q. Weren't you as well entitled to those rooms as they ? A. 
 Well, that room was set aside for their use ; we were told so. 
 
 Q. And if you were put on the same basis as the Judges of the 
 Court of Errors and Appeals, I don't know why you were not 
 better entitled to that — A. We thought it best to be courteous 
 and gentle ; we didn't wish to create any trouble, and when we 
 were told to get out we left. 
 
 Q. It so happened that when you came to Trenton it was 
 Monday and Tuesday, was it not? A. I think it was, very fre- 
 quently. 
 
 Q. And this very bill is almost entirely for errands of that 
 sort, is it not ? A. It does seem so on its face. 
 
 Q. The bill for that month is $423.87. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Did the other members of the com- 
 mittee meet on that day? A. Yes, I think so ; they were regu- 
 lar Board meetings. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Were there any strikes ^ A. I 
 can't tell what strikes were on at that time ; we might as well 
 have met in Jersey City or Newark ; but this was the proper 
 place to meet, so long as we could have the use of the room. 
 
 Q. I see, in this bill and those that follow, frequent trips to 
 Jersey City and to l^ew York, with 82 miles of travel, and for 
 going down and returning the same day, and hotel expenses of 
 12.60, $3.50, 13.50, $2.80, $2.25. What was the occasion of hotel 
 expenses to that extent in going to Jersey City in the morning 
 and coming back at night? A. Well, I don't know how other 
 people can travel, but I certainly can't travel without spending 
 from $2.50 to $3 a day, and I think most men in commercial life 
 are allowed a good deal mare. 
 
JOSEPH P. M DONNELL. 399 
 
 Q. But every mile you traveled here on the railroad or horse 
 car there is ten cents charged up in addition to that and your 
 $10 per day; and there is an item here, I may say some hun- 
 dreds of items, of hotel expenses, and I see that those in Jersey 
 City, when you went to Jersey City or New York, are for $2.25 
 to $3.75 per day; what occasion was there for use of a hotel, 
 further than to get your lunch? A. Well, first I should know 
 what these trips were made for ; I cau't tell unless you refer to 
 the letter accompanying. 
 
 Q. They are so frequently here that I thought you might 
 remember them. A. It is a long time ago, and it is impossible 
 for me to remember. 
 
 Q. Here is one at Paterson ; take this bill from 1893, April 
 18th and 19th, at Paterson; you were at home then t A. 1 live 
 outside of the city ; at least in the city two miles. 
 
 (j^. What is the place you live? A. Lake View. 
 
 Q. That is within the city limits, about two miles from your 
 office ? A. Two miles from the center of the city. 
 
 Q. And you travel that distance on the trolley car ? A. 
 Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. Look at the first item of this bill : April 18th and 19th, at 
 Paterson, strike of the * * * q\\^ company's men ; two 
 days' services, $20; two days' meals, $1.50— $3.00. Take the 
 next one : Paterson to Jersey City, 32 miles, $3.20 ; one day's 
 services, $10 ; one day's hotel expenses, $3. That means hotel 
 expenses in Paterson or Jersey City? A. Jersey City. 
 
 Q. Well, I have called your attention to that one as a sample 
 of one of a class that are numerous there in all bills. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What hotel in Jersey City 
 charges $3 for two meals? A. I simply stated what my ordinary 
 expenses would be whether traveling for myself or traveling for 
 the State ; I can't travel as some people may travel ; some can 
 travel without spending any money at all ; I can't do it. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. You were spending the State's money? A. Yes, and 
 spending according as I would spend ray firm's money, in a 
 reasonable manner ; I can't go to a hotel and purchase five-cent 
 meals. 
 
 Q. How was it that you always charged $3 ? A. ISTo, sir ; I 
 didn't ; you will find the sums varying there according to the 
 circumstances; might sometimes be eight or nine hours; I can't 
 go to the city of Jersey City and remain there nine hours and 
 spend less than $3 ; I can't. 
 
400 JOSEPH p. m'donnell. 
 
 Q. Of course you must buy refreshmente. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Corbin)— Take the next bill, July, 1893 ; this will 
 illustrate. I don't want to be understood as saying Mr, McDon- 
 nell charged $3 every day for hotel expenses; it is sometimes 
 more and sometimes less; but take this next one, Paterson to 
 Jersey City and return, hotel expenses $2.26; and Paterson to 
 New York and return, $2.60; Paterson to New York and return, 
 $3.50; Paterson to Jersey City and return, $3.50. 
 
 Senator Yoorhees — What were they doing over in 
 New York ? 
 
 A. If Mr. Corbin has the letter which accompanied the bill it 
 will explain what we were doing in New York. We never went 
 to New York unless we had business there — that is, with the head 
 of some firm whom we couldn't see in Jersey City, we would see 
 ia New York. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — You may be right. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. Now, Newark and return, hotel $2.50; in Paterson, Lake 
 View and return, four miles, 16 cents; Lake View to Paterson, 
 four miles, 16 cents, hotel bill, $1.25. I observe the mileage has 
 gone down to four cents. Why was that? 
 
 A. I forget now how it occurred, but we conferred with the 
 Governor — I think the present Governor; Governor Werts, I 
 think it was — with the Comptroller or the Attorney-General. 
 His opinion was asked upon the matter and he stated that we 
 were entitled to four cents ; that it was a mistake to pay 10. 
 Then, of course, our bills went in for four, in accordance with his 
 opinion rendered to the Governor. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Did you make any allowance for 
 the excess of six cents that had been paid you? A. That was 
 not our fault; that was the fault of the people who were higher 
 than we were in the State. 
 
 (§. That was your good fortune but not your fault ? A. That 
 was not our fault, but our good fortune. 
 
 Q. I call your attention again to May, 1893 ; in that I find 
 " Paid out for clippings, $3.70," disapproved by Governor Werts ; 
 he allowed the bill for the remainder. That question was raised 
 at that time about the allowance for newspaper clippings and he 
 rejected the item? A. He rejected that item ; at that time the 
 bills went to him for approval. 
 
 §. After that the bills were not sent to the Governor and the 
 newspaper clippings were put in ? A. By authority of the 
 Comptroller ; yes, sir. 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnbll. 401 
 
 Q. Mr. McDonnell, will you kindly, being a newspaper man, 
 explain what is meant by newspaper clippings on the subject of 
 strikes. A. Well, there are regular bureaus for the purpose of 
 furnishing clippings to individuals, to corporations and others in 
 the city of New York and elsewhere, I presume, and if you are 
 interested in any special matter, you can write to one of these 
 bureaus and they will furnish you with clippings respecting that 
 special matter from newspapers in any State or any number of 
 States, and they charge you, I think it is five cents a clipping, 
 and nearly all our prominent men are subscribers to these clip- 
 ping bureaus. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — Ifone of the Senators are. 
 
 §. (By Senator Skirm) — What was the necessity that the State 
 should pay for clippings ; what advantage was it to the Board or 
 the State ? A. I will tell you. In the State of New York, 
 the State Board of Arbitration has a Secretary ; it has also an 
 Assistant Secretary and one of the chief duties of that Assistant 
 Secretary is the clipping from the State newspapers — they sub- 
 scribe for all the newspapers of the State, and the duty of the 
 Assistant Secretary — most of his time is occupied in clipping 
 reports. These clippings are from all the newspapers and fur- 
 nished for the Board so that they might become acquainted with 
 the facts as related in the newspapers of the various parts of the 
 State. Now we had to purchase all the newspapers and devote 
 a great deal of time to the clippings ourselves or to purchase these 
 clippings from one of the bureaus in New York City, and we 
 even confined that bureau — for a long time they were sending 
 us clippings from New York papers respecting New Jersey 
 strikes as well as New Jersey papers, and we told them to stop 
 that. We confined them simply to New Jersey newspapers. 
 Our anxiety was simply to be informed upon all the matters re- 
 lating to strikes in the State. Our Board was formed for that 
 special purpose and if we didn't do something to try and ascer- 
 tain respecting the particulars of these strikes, then we may as 
 well resign from the position altogether ; the Board would be no 
 earthly good ; the expense of that was very shght ; but that was 
 the object in subscribing to the clipping bureau. 
 
 Q. After you had this opinion of Governor Werts the bills 
 were no longer submitted to the Oovernor ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. But the Comptroller drew his warrant for the amount with- 
 out the approval of the Governor ? A, Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you see the Comptroller about it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who was Comptroller at that time? A. Gen. Heppen- 
 heimer. 
 
 26 SH 
 
402 JOSEPH p. m'donnell. 
 
 Q. And the bills have been paid from that time to the present 
 upon the approval of the Comptroller? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did the Comptroller know that 
 the Governor had disapproved of the former charge 1 A. 1 don't 
 know, but I know we requested him to approve it ; for my part I 
 favored it ; I thought it was a necessity, we should have some- 
 thing to work upon. 
 
 Q. (Bv Senator Voorhees) — The act doesn't make it necessary 
 that it shall be approved by the Governor does it? A. l^o, sir. 
 
 §. Why did you go to Bridgeport ? A. Bridgeton ; that was 
 the strike of the green glass blowers, 
 
 Q. These bills are substantially alike. I observe after the 
 mileage was reduced, after that, you charged from Lake View to 
 your office at Paterson and back, daily ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. As many days as there are charged in the bill ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Some of the months have all the days and some have less. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Was this Board in constant session at 
 Paterson? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. i will take one of the bills and go through it and the Com- 
 mittee will get a fair idea. Some bills are 26 days, some are 10 
 days. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Of course they didn't work on 
 Sunday. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I notice that there are s ;me days con- 
 tinuous for 10 or 12 days which must have included 
 Sunday, but I presume there were emergencies which 
 justified the breach of the law in such cases. 
 
 A. Ye8,lsir; only exceptional cases, where the people could not 
 leave any other time. 
 
 Q. l^ow beginning in August, I think it is, 1893, 1 find a new 
 charge in these bills which I think, continues until the present 
 time, and that is, each time a day is charged there is an item 
 called "Incidental Expense." The charge which was known as 
 " Hotel Expenses " disappears ; what does that mean ? A. Inci- 
 dental expense. 
 
 Q. Look at the bill, you will find that each day ? A. It 
 means the same thing. 
 
 Q. Under another name? A. Under another name. 
 
 Q. $2.75, Newark; $3.25, Harrison; $2.2.5, Harrison; $2.75, 
 at Newark ; $1.25, at Paterson ; $3, at Newark ; $2.25, at West 
 Hoboken ; $2.50, at Newark; $2.75, at West Hoboken ; and 
 $2.25, at Hoboken; $2.50, at West Hoboken; $2.75, at West 
 Hoboken; $2.75, at Trenton, that is about the way they run. 
 
JOSEPH P. M DONNELL. 403 
 
 . Chairman Voorhees — What is the date of that bill ? 
 Mr. Corbin — August 31, 1898 ; it is for the month of 
 August for $261.66. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Mr. McDonnell has spoken 
 about their working on Sundays in case of emergency. 
 I understand from an examination of the bills, that there 
 is one that shows thirty-two days out of a possible thirty- 
 three, extending from March 27 to April 30, 1894 ; did 
 you have to work thirty-two days out of thirty-three 
 there? 
 A. I don't know, sir; if you will show me the bill I will tell 
 you. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — This bill covers disbursements, 
 charges from March 27 to April 30, 1894. A. If it is so in that 
 bill it must be correct. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You work harder than the Sena- 
 tors do ? ^. I do, I guess, a good deal. 
 
 Q. Bill dated May 1, March 27, 28, 29, 30 and 81, April 2, 3, 
 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 
 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ; that is the one for 32 days out of a possible 
 34, I think. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What was the occasion of so much 
 time being spent there ? A. Senator, I really can't say ; the let- 
 ter accompanying the bill explains. 
 
 Q. I will read the letter accompanying the bill. "March 27, 
 28 and 29, April 1, 7, 19, 28, at Newark, consulting with Mr. J. 
 P. Axt and the segar makers, conference between the two parties 
 in the presence of the Board to settle the strike and prevent re- 
 currence." Now, March 30, 31 and April 4, 6, 7, 11, 24, 25, 26, 
 30, in Paterson, meetings of the Board conferring with striking 
 ribbon weavers and weavers of broad goods in Paterson Mills 
 conferring with committee from striking weavers of Philipsburg, 
 consulting regarding their troubles in different places in State 
 ten days; April 2, 3 and 16 in Trenton, meetings of the Board 
 for the transaction of business, of consulting with striking pot- 
 ters, four days ; April 5, 12, 14, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22 and 29, 9 days, 
 at office consulting with striking silk ribbon and broad goods 
 weavers of Paterson and Phillipsburg, and segar makers of New- 
 ark and others; communication with Sayre regarding the dis- 
 satisfactions among the Lehigh Railroad employees, with tlie 
 Mount Holly carpet works and Griffing Iron Works, some silk 
 strikers and other Board work, 9 days at office ; April 28, at Jer- 
 sey City with Mr. Atwood; April 13, at Port Oram; April 27, 
 at New York conferring with Mr. Brohman,of the Standard Silk 
 
404 JOSEPH p. MDONNELL. 
 
 Company. At what place did the emergency arise which re. 
 quired the work on Sunday; was that at ISTewark? A. No, 
 chiefly at Paterson. 
 
 Q. That was among those days when you remained at home? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Were the rest of the Board 
 there with you then ? A. Not on Sundays, no, sir. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. Could the Board act individually? A. As we understood 
 it, it could ; I would be called upon as a member of the Board, or 
 as Chairman of the Board, by a number of strikers, to listen to 
 their complaints and discuss the matter with them, and report to 
 the Board afterwards; of course, I had no power to act in the 
 matter. 
 
 Q. Is the act broad enough to bear that construction ? A. We 
 interpreted it in that way ; if people come to you with their com- 
 plaints, what are you to do? 
 
 Q. Call a meeting of the Board. A. Tou can't call a meeting 
 of the Board right away, and these people insisted upon having 
 their meetings right away. 
 
 Q. A careful investigation, I am informed, of those bills show 
 that in 1894 you gave 287 days to the service of the State out of 
 865 days; that left you 78 days that you were not employed ; 52 
 days are Sundays, that left you 26 days when you did not serve 
 the State. A. I can't say as to the number of days ; I suppose 
 that is so. 
 
 Q. I may be miserably informed and I don't have the advan- 
 tage of the clipping bureau, but I hadn't any idea that there 
 were so many strikes in this State as that? A. There are others; 
 you have no idea of the number of strikes there have been ; we 
 haven't been able to attend to all the strikes. 
 
 y. In 1894? A. Yes, sir; and the indications are that there 
 will be a great many more this year than there were last. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 §. The report on page 4 says, during the two years which were 
 covered by this report 122 strikes came to the knowledge of the 
 Board, of which 61 received personal attention and investiga- 
 tion ; that is, during the two years up to January, 1895 ? 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Then you gave nine days' Con- 
 sideration to a strike on an average? A. Sometimes more; some 
 strikes took more than that. 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnell. 405 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Couldn't the Board of Arbitra- 
 tion settle most of those strikes in two hours? A. Well, Sen- 
 ator, you should try it. 
 
 Q. I guess from 18 to 20 days for a strike of the 61 strikes 
 would be nearer. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — I suppose we must have them, but 
 don't it come pretty high? A. 1 think it is well worth the 
 money. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — With the general purpose of the 
 Board the Comittee do not mean to say they are not in sympathy, 
 but they are astounded with the cost? A. What should we do; 
 do these people insist upon the Board giving their time ; what is 
 the Board going to do ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This same report goes on to say, "some 
 
 of these strikes were of a character liable to extend 
 
 from sympathy and, no doubt, would have resulted in 
 
 disorder and violence had there been no interference of 
 
 a legal Board. Others were of minor importance and 
 
 short duration. They were settled by letter, telephone 
 
 or telegragh, as occasion required. The Board has also 
 
 been instrumental in preventing a number of strikes by 
 
 timely advice to parties interested. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — That wouldn't take eight days by 
 
 telephone, or telegraph, or by letter ? A. That depends on the 
 
 amount of communication. 
 
 Q. When this work was so pressing that it required substan- 
 tially all your time, Sundays included, who managed your news- 
 paper? A. I don't quite understand what you mean. 
 
 Q. The laat bill that I showed yoa indicated that you spent 
 32 out of a possible 34 days, consecutively, in the service of the 
 State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Id composing labor difficulties? Who managed your 
 newspaper during that period? A. The people who have been 
 managing it all along — who are managing it now — have been 
 managing it all along, under my supervision. 
 
 Q. Your own supervision was practically withdrawn? A. To 
 a very large extent ; I am very sorry to-day ; it would have been 
 a good deal better for my business ; |10 a day don't pay me ; I 
 wish I had never been on the Board. 
 
 Q. Well, about these days; I see that there are quite a good 
 many days charged here at Lake View; that is where your resi- 
 dence is? A. That is the office, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. At Lake View is your home? A. Yes, sir. 
 
406 JOSEPH p. m'donxell. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhecf) — Is that where the telephone is? 
 A. Yes, sir; that is where the office is. 
 
 §. But the telephone ? A. Y"es, sir. 
 
 Q. Isn't the telephone in the newspaper office ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. But there is a telephone in the newspaper office? A. There 
 is a private telephone of mine ; you mean the State telephone ; 
 the State telephone is situated in my private residence at Lake 
 View, because you have to answer it at all hours. 
 
 Q. You had one in your office before? A. Simply private 
 telephone from the house. 
 
 Q. Well, those days that are charged here at Lake View, those 
 are days when you remained at your own residence considering 
 State matters ? A. In the office. 
 
 Q. At Lake View, it says? A. Yes, that is where my office is. 
 
 §. Your office is in your house? A. No, it is separate from 
 my house. 
 
 Q. Is your newspaper office at Lake View as well ? A. Yis, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Then when you went to Paterson and charged mileage you 
 were going away from home and office ? A. Yes, sir; I have no 
 office down in the city of Paterson. 
 
 Q. Your saying at the outset that you lived in Paterson has 
 confused me a little, but I think we understand it now. Did you 
 assist in the preparation of this report of which Mr. Romaine has 
 spoken? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who drew it ? A. The secretary. 
 
 Q. You didn't draw it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. I find in your bills from November 26th to February 27th, 
 seventeen days charged, to preparation of report? A. That is 
 this year? 
 
 §. Yes. A. Yes, that is right. 
 
 Q. What were you doing about the report while he was draw- 
 ing it? A. The vote of the Board, as the records will show, that 
 a majority of the Board voted that all members should meet and 
 go over all the reports from the beginning to the end, in the 
 presence of all members and that is what is termed the preparation. 
 
 Q. I see Mr. Roberson is also charged twenty-one days for 
 drawing the report? A. That is what I referred to ; the motion 
 was made and passed by the Board that all members should 
 attend. 
 
 (-1. And Mr. Doyle has charged nineteen days for drawing the 
 report, and Mr. Romaine, the clerk, has charged forty-one days' 
 work on the report ; the total is ninety eight days, making, in 
 other words, $980. I see these charges, with reference to the 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnbll. 407 
 
 preparation of this report, reach up to the 27th day of February, 
 this year, so that the completion of the report must have been a 
 little later than you supposed ? A. Yes, if that was the time. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I understood the witness before this 
 one to say that this was presented to the Comptroller 
 before the meeting of this Legislature. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is a mistake ; I am correcting it 
 now. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Did they charge $30 for bring- 
 ing it down to the Comptroller? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't know ; $10 a day is allowed by 
 law for those days when they are laboring, besides ex- 
 penses and the mileage, which we have heard. 
 
 Witness — The per diem system is wrong ; there is no 
 question about that, and I wish to state. Senators, that 
 it was not the wish of the Board or the labor organiza- 
 tions of the State that that per diem system existed 
 under the bill ; they wanted a regular salary at the be- 
 ginning. When the bill was presented by the present 
 Governor, he was then a member of the Senate; it 
 didn't provide for that per diem system. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — He didn't have any idea that 
 there would be 61 strikes ; he never dreamed that these 
 members would get $3,000 or $4,000 a year for their 
 services. Let me ask you : Will you kindly refer to the 
 charges for the preparation of the report for the year 
 1894? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is no report but this one. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — But there are charges for it; 
 the one that .was submitted to the Legislature of 1894. 
 I mean the report for the year 1893. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There was no report. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Well, there are charges for it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Are there ? Well, I will see. I should 
 say that the earlier bills that were rendered do not give 
 the full particulars that the latter ones do. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think you will find it in 
 December, 1893, or January, 1894, voucher. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, I have it; the bill of December 
 31st, 1893, rendered by Mr. McDonnell, gives Decem- 
 ber 20th and 21st at Lake View, engaged on report; 
 23d, 26th, 27th and 28th at Lake View engaged on 
 report; 30th, engaged on report; there are fjeven days 
 in that bill engaged upon that report. 
 
408 JOSEPH p. m'donnell,. 
 
 (2- (By Chairman Voorhees) — How much was that report ? A. 
 Well, the report was prepared at that time, and is now part of 
 the report in the possession of the printer ; it was never revised 
 at that time ; it was never revised until this year. 
 
 Q. Wasn't that a synopsis ? A. Including synopsis. 
 
 Q. Then this should be to what I have stated, to the present 
 report, to what is about to be printed. I see your bills, if I foot 
 them correctly, amount, for the fiscal year 1893 to $2,526 and 
 for the fiscal year 1894 to $3,049; that is substantially correct? 
 A. I presume the bill is correct. 
 
 Q. Well, what strikes did your Board actually settle? A. 
 Well, it is quite impossible for me to answer that question now, 
 just as I stated before; the hearing was on before the Judicial 
 Committee ; the report is in the hands of the State ; it ought to 
 be here and it would speak for itself. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Isn't it a matter of fact that that 
 report is chiefly taken up with excerpts from writers? A. I 
 think not. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Those whom we know as 
 anarchist^ and such? A. Not as I am aware of ; if it is so, I 
 don't know anything about it. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — There are some people quoted 
 there, and I wondered if they were quoted in the State report. 
 A. You refer to the preface probably. 
 
 Q. Look at this preface, on page 7 ; you quote from the New 
 York World and at the end give a list of those who have written 
 stating how great strikes should be settled ; E,ev. W. S. Kains- 
 ford, Kector of St. George's Episcopal Church ; John McBride, 
 President of the American Federation of Labor ; Miss Emma 
 Goldman, the well-known woman anarchist ; C. W. Mowbray, 
 the English Conservative Anarchist leader. The opinions of the 
 persons named can be found in the issue of that date. That is 
 appended to your report, is it ; the opinions of these people ? A. 
 I think so ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't read that kind of reading ? A. All kinds of 
 reading. 
 
 Q. Then, I understand you, the opinion of Emma Goldman 
 the woman anarchist and C. W. Mowbray, are appended to that 
 report to be printed at the expense of the State of New Jersey, 
 are they ? A. That is not a fair way to put it ; why not ask for 
 the opinion of the President of the Chamber of Commerce of 
 New York ; it is there, too. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The State of New Jersey will 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnell. 409 
 
 not print the opinion oi Emma Goldman, not if Mr. 
 Voorhees has anything to say about it. 
 
 WitnesE — I am not in favor, still, at the same time — 
 Chairman Voorhees — The idea of a sworn officer of 
 the State printing anarchistic utterances ; did you ever 
 think of that ? 
 
 Witness — Are her utterances specially anarchistic ? 
 Chairman Voorhees — I should say they were. She 
 can't think except through the medium of anarchy. 
 Witness — I am not in sympathy with her. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Then what do you want to 
 quote her for and ask the State to pay fur it ? A. The most 
 radical people are yet in favor of some board of arbitration. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — We all are agreed that there 
 should be, but what do we want of Emma Goldman ? When we 
 want to go to heaven we don't ask the devil the way. A. I 
 know that; I am not particularly in favor of publishing these 
 views. 
 
 Q. This is a quotation "But how shall this be done? This is 
 a grave question which the world has put to leaders of thought 
 in many fields of action, whose conclusions are herewith pre- 
 sented^ It will be seen from the names of those who have writ- 
 ten on the subject that the question has been treated from every 
 important standpoint. The clergyman, the lawyer, the railroad 
 president, the great employer of labor, the humanitarian, the 
 labor leader, the bank president, the military commander and the 
 anarchist discuss this question of the hour in its practical aspect. 
 Here are those who have thus set forth their views on 'B[ow 
 Great Strikes Should be Settled.'" Then follows a list of the 
 persons named, and that they can be found in the issue of that 
 date, and that the views of many prominent men will be found 
 in the appendix. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What is the appendix '! 
 
 Senator Skirm — I understand Secretary Romaine to 
 say they are not there ; which is correct. 
 
 Mr. Romaine — The articles referred to will not appear 
 in the report. 
 Q, The preface, after the comments which I have read, has the 
 following : " Laws to be beneficial should serve the interest of 
 all, the poor who know not where the next job and meal ar'e to 
 come from as well as the commercial cannibal in whom greed and 
 selfishness are abnormally developed. Without that there will 
 be growing discontent — 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think that refers to Skirm. 
 
410 JOSEPH p. m'donnell. 
 
 Q. " Without that there will be growing discontent, enforced 
 idleness as well as enforced labor and sullen submission, capital- 
 istic oppression, and finally military despotism in the name of 
 law and order." What is commercial cannibalism? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Who is responsible for that 
 utterance ? 
 
 Senator Skirm — Why the joint Board, at $30 a day. 
 Q. What is meant by that ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That is a fair question ; this 
 Committee want to know what a commercial cannibal 
 is? 
 Q. Well, I don't wish to give any explanation of it. 
 A. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Will you, as a matter of favor to 
 the Committee, oblige them by defining a commercial cannibal ? 
 A. I take it for granted we all know what a commercial cannibal 
 is. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman A^oorhees) — I don't, and I asked Skirm if he 
 was one, and he says he isn't? A. Well, a man who will live 
 and fatten upon the miseries of his fellow-man. 
 
 Q., (By Chairman Voorhees) — That would be a social cannibal 
 wouldn't it? A. He would be asocial cannibal or commercial 
 cannibal, it all depends upon what he is, what his position is in 
 society. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think that applies to you as a 
 lawyer, Mr. Corbin. 
 Mr. Corbin— What? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That definition I think is very 
 apt for us. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I am not fattening. 
 Q. Listen to this : " Without that, there would be growing 
 discontent and enforced idleness as well as enforced labor." 
 What do you mean by enforced labor in this country, since the 
 fourteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States. 
 Chairman Voorhees — Mr. McDonnell knows what 
 that is. 
 A. Yes, sir. Well, we all know what enforced labor is, I 
 presume. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I don't. 
 Q. Isn't that clause drafted, instead of mediating and making 
 pea(?b between employers and employes, isn't it drafted and well 
 designed to create discord 1 A. 1 think not, Mr. Corbin, but it 
 simply refers to a class of people who have raised the cry, 
 " Nothing to arbitrate." 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnell. 411 
 
 Q. Hasn't that whole clause been copied from the utterances 
 of some anarchist who is seeking to disrupt society? A. ISo, 
 sir ; not to my knowledge it isn't. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Emma Goldman? A. No, sir; 
 you are greatly mistaken ; no, I don't know that. 
 
 Q. Isn't the whole tenor of that towards misunderstanding 
 between employers and employes instead of — A. I admit it 
 may be a little strong; it may be too strong for the book; I 
 admit that. 
 
 Examined by Chaieman Vooehees. 
 
 Q. In a circular bearing your signature and addressed to me, 
 and received by me, was a piteous appeal in behalf of the pro- 
 letarian ; please tell me what a proletarian is in this country ? 
 A. If you are to make a difference between them in this country 
 and any other country, I will tell you. 
 
 Q. There is all the difference in the world, and you know it; 
 now, as a friend of labor, you have no business to say that a 
 laborer is an outcast of the lowest and vilest drug of society, and 
 that is what a proletarian is ; it is an insult to every working 
 man in the State. A. Don't you know that they are made so ? 
 
 Q. They are not made so ; by the grace of God they are 
 independent. A. I know what you mean, and I wish you were — 
 
 Q. It shocked me and grieved me; I couldn't believe I had a 
 right idea what proletarian meant when I saw jf over your signa- 
 ture — a friend of labor designating those with whom you work 
 as being of the vilest outcasts beyond the vale of the law ? A. 
 I don't interpret it that way. 
 
 Q. That is what it means to every intelligent man. A. Yes, 
 I. understand what you mean, but a proletarian wage-worker, 
 who is struggling for an existence — 
 
 Q. A proletarian never wages. Well, aside from that, don't 
 you think that a little strong, too? A. Which was that? 
 
 Q. To use that word " proletarian " as to thousands of work- 
 men in this State? A. I differ with you; I think not. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Didn't you think the purpose of this act of 1892 was to 
 create a Board who should try to bring employers and employes 
 together ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And to establish a better understanding between them ? 
 A. Yes, sir; I did. 
 
 Q. And to allay the bitterness which existed? A. Yes, sir; I 
 did. 
 
412 PATRICK F. DOYLE. 
 
 Q. And try to make them see that they have interests in 
 common? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, don't you think the language of this report has an 
 utterly contrary tendency ? A. Well, it is scarcely fair to judge 
 the report by the preface. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That is spoken in a pickwickian 
 seuse in the report? 4. Possibly. 
 
 Q. Isn't the purpose of that act rather to make labor more 
 honorable? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Make him more self-respected? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. More iudepeudent? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To create a better understanding between all men ? A. We 
 have endeavored to do that. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — By calling them proletarians? 
 A. You ask a hundred thousand w^orkingmen in the State of 
 ISTevv Jersey, aud he will tell you he is a proletarian. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Then he is not an American? 
 A. Yes, bora American, not adopted American; they do, and 
 there is no use denying it. 
 
 Q. You think this is a little strong, the way it is put? A. 
 Yes, sir ; I do. 
 
 Patrick F. Doyle, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. What is yom* residence? A. 16 Wayne street, Jersey City. 
 
 Q. How long have you resided in Jersey City? A. All my 
 life ; I was born there ; 39 years. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation? A. Locomotive engineer. 
 
 Q. Employed by what railroad ? A. Central Railroad of JSTew 
 Jersey. 
 
 Q. And you have been one of the members of the State Board 
 of Arbitration ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have yon pursued your occupation of a locomotive engineer 
 since you were appointed to that Board ? -4. I have, on and off. 
 
 Q. Well, explain what you mean by that. A. Well, a great 
 many days I was out on business for the State. 
 
 Q. How are you employed as locomotive engineer, by the trip 
 or by the day? A. We are paid by the mile; 100 miles consti- 
 tutes a day's woris; all over that is paid pro rata mileage, three 
 cents and a quarter a mile. 
 
 Q. So that you were able to be away sometimes and yet retain 
 your position ? A. Yes, sir ; the chairman called me out by 
 telegram and asked me to go out on certain occasions — meet 
 with the Board. 
 
PATRICK F. DOYLE. 413 
 
 Q. Have you been able during these last two years to make 
 substantially your normal wages as locomotive engineer ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. How near to it? A. A great ways from it. 
 
 Q. Half of it? A. I never figured it up; I don't think so. 
 
 Q. It has taken more than half of your time, you think, in 
 the duties of the Board ? A. We are paid by the mileage; you 
 lose a good many days that you can make if you were not out 
 for the State. 
 
 Q. When you work by miles, isn't it true that in one day you 
 make sometimes two days' work? A. Sometimes, yes, sir; I 
 am liable to make three days or four days. A round trip to 
 Philadelphia makes 181 miles, and a round trip to Point Pleasant 
 is 122 miles. 
 
 Q. Which line do you run on? A. On the New York and 
 Long Branch Division, at the present time. 
 
 Q. From New York to Amboy and Long Branch? A. Down 
 through to Point Pleasant. 
 
 Q. How long have you been running on that line? A. Well, 
 I couldn't state the date ; I run the paper train when I first took 
 this position as State Arbitrator; then I used to go out at 4:30 
 in the morning and come back, I think it was 10 o'clock in the 
 forenoon; then the run was changed afterwards, and I went out 
 some time in the morning and got through at 11:25; then later 
 on it was 12:48, and then when I took this train I left at 8:25 and 
 got through at 5:46 ; then they changed it and I got out the 
 same time in the morning and got through 1:59. 
 
 (J. I observe that your bill is very similar to that of Mr. Mc- 
 Donnell, and that you went to Woodbine and Camden and 
 Bridgeton ajid Trenton. Did you go of your own accord or 
 were you called out by the Chairman to go ? A. Called by the 
 Chairman of the Board. 
 
 Q. Did you go alone or with others ? ^. I went alone some- 
 times and sometimes would meet the members ot the Board 
 which would meet Roberson, because he lived in Prenchtowu, 
 New Jersey; and sometimes I would meet Mr. McDonnell and 
 the Secretary; they would come from Paterson to Jersey City. 
 
 Q. Did you make trips alone on the errands of the Board, or 
 always in association with some of the others ? A. 1 have made 
 them alone; I was called out by difiereut parties alone ; then I 
 called for the Board ; in the big Lehigh Valley strike, I will 
 state for your benefit, on that strike that the Grand officers — on 
 account of me being a member of the Brotherhood of Locomo- 
 
414 PATRICK F. DOYLE. 
 
 tive Engineers — they tried to get an audience with the officials of 
 the Lehigh Valley Company, and they couldn't do it. 
 
 Q. The Grand officers of the Locomotive Engineers' Associa- 
 tion ? A. The federated body that is composed of the five or- 
 ganizations of the railroad organizations — the engineers, the fire- 
 men, the trainmen and the telegraphers — and they couldn't get 
 any audience with the officials of the company, and they asked 
 for the assistance of the Board, and we got it. 
 
 Q. Who asked the assistance of these Grand Officers? A. Then 
 the second time — we went on that case twice ; the first time we 
 went on it, you know, they were not satisfied with the agreement 
 that was drawn up, and they wanted three more propositions put 
 on, and they asked the Board if they wouldn't go and get them 
 three propositions, and we told them we would, and I think we 
 were up there three or four days. 
 
 Q. Where was that? A. Bethlehem. 
 
 Q. With the New York Board and Pennsylvania Board? A. 
 No, sir ; the Pennsylvania Board was not appointed at the time. 
 
 Q. This that you did with the Lehigh Yalley strike was done 
 at Bethlehem? A. No, sir; not all. 
 
 Q. Chiefly ? A. No, sir ; it commenced in Jersey City, at 
 Taylor's Hotel, in Jersey City. 
 
 Q. It commenced by your drawing the attention of it to your 
 Board ? A. Yes, sir ; Mr. McDonnell communicated with them. 
 
 Q. I have allowed you to draw me ofi: from my question, but I 
 draw your attention to your bill of March 13th, 1893, and I see a 
 charge for two days in one week to Trenton along in February 
 down to March, and I see by referring to the calendar that that 
 was Monday and Tuesday each time. You came down Monday 
 afternoon, did you not, and attended the meeting of. the Legisla- 
 ture, and went back the next day? A. Didn't come down for the 
 meeting of the Legislature. 
 
 Q. I didn't ask you that ; you came in, of course. A. I came 
 down here for the chairman on official busineos of the Board. 
 
 Q. To meet here in the evening? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, afternoon? A. When we got through with our 
 meeting we come down here, but we never come here for any 
 meeting of the Legislature. 
 
 Q. It was the time of the meeting of the Legislature, Monday 
 night; that you remember? A. I couldn't tell you the date. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. Where did you meet them ? I am not reflectiag upon your . 
 coming down on the call of the chairman, but I want to know 
 
PATRICK F. DOYLE. 415 
 
 where you met ? A. We got the Subway room ; we asked for a 
 room ia the State House aad it was a couple of weeks, yes, I will 
 say three months, before we got a room. Finally they gave us 
 the Subway Commission room, and we were there quite awhile ; 
 finally they put us out; then they put the State Board of Taxa- 
 tion in. 
 
 (J. These various nights, to which you refer, did you meet as 
 a Board ? A. When we had that room we met in that room. 
 
 Q. Will the minutes show that? A. The minutes ought to 
 show that. 
 
 Q. What business came before the Board every Monday night ? 
 A. Whatever business was necessary. 
 
 Q. What was the nature of that business? A. Well, this press 
 intelligence here, notifying the chairman of pending troubles in 
 the different parts of the State, and the chairman would take 
 action by informing the other members of the Board to attend a 
 meeting. 
 
 Q. Then you would just simply come down and talk over a 
 strike ? A. Ani see what we would do ; we could go right from 
 the State House here, and go on the strike. 
 
 Q. It don't appear that you ever did that? A. I think you 
 will see on the minutes. 
 
 Q. I mean from these bills; because you simply came here 
 Monday night? A. Maybe that particular time we didn't do it, 
 but I say there are times we went from Trenton — from the State 
 House. 
 
 Q. Were you getting clippings at that time? A. I think we 
 were. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These bills show, if the Committee 
 please, that, during the session of 1893, the committee 
 met here on Monday and Tuesday, practically every 
 Monday and Tuesday during the session, and these bills 
 contain substantially nothing else. 
 
 Witness — Did it have me down here every Monday 
 night ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Not every Monday night, but 
 pretty nearly. January 16th the Legislature met; you 
 were here; and the 22d, the next Monday, you were 
 here, and the 25th and 26th you went to Bayonne ; the 
 30th you were here (that is the next Monday); February 
 Ist, 2d and 3d you went to Paterson ; February 6th you 
 were here (that was a meeting of the Legislature) ; the 
 13th you were here; 15th you went to Paterson. Then 
 there was a week skipped. Then the 27th you were 
 
416 PATRICK F. DOYLE. 
 
 here again ; March 6th you were here again ; March 
 8th aud lltb, Jersey City. With two exceptions, you 
 were here every Monday night. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The Legislature of 1893 closed on 
 March 11th. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Then that only omits one. 
 
 The Witness — I want to tell Mr. Voorhees about it. 
 I didn't come down here to attend the session ; I come 
 down here at the call of the chair to attend meetings of 
 the Board. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. But as a matter of fact there was no strilse going on, for 
 you don't appear to have attended to any strike ? J.. I guess 
 you will find if you look at the clippings that there was some- 
 thing to do. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. Isn't it kind of funny that strikes always occurred on Mon- 
 day and Tuesday ? A. You insinuate that we comedown here for 
 a special purpose. 
 
 Q. No, what I did mean — you may have come here honestly so 
 far as the call was concerned, but the truth of the matter was 
 there was nothing for the Board to do ? ^. I had a harder time 
 to get here than the other members. 
 
 Q. But what I do mean to say is this, that it was kind of 
 strange that the Board should have been called together on these 
 particular days, when absolutely there was no evidence — there was 
 no strike which necessitated their being called together. A. 
 There was something transpired at that meeting or I would be 
 the first one to call down the other members. 
 
 Q. You were called down here to listen to the gufi[ of the 
 Chairman probably ? A. 'So, I had business. 
 
 Q. I don't mean to say that you ran away with more money 
 than you were entitled to ? A. No, I think my bills are all right. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I see these bills are all in the same handwriting, and a very 
 nice one, too, by the way. Who wrote them ? A. That is Sec- 
 retary Romaine's writing. 
 
 Q. He made out the bills for all three members of the Board, 
 as well as his own? A. Yes, sir, and the President signed them. 
 
 Q. I see you have an engraved bill-head. Where did you get 
 
PATEICK F. DOYLE. 417 
 
 that, the prettiest piece of State printing I have seen ; it is a 
 beauty ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — What about the cost? 
 
 Q. There is a bill of $265 to which I will call your attention ? 
 
 A. That was for all the stationery and certain other letter- 
 heads of a similar character ; it is very fine. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It ought to be. 
 
 A. A resolution passed the Board to get the bill-heads and 
 stationery for the use of the Board. 
 
 Q. Did you have a pass to come down on ? A. 'So, sir. I 
 want to tell the members of this Board that I heard I was ac- 
 cused of having passes. There were three passes sent to me the 
 first of this year, " as requested." Now, I didn't request any 
 railroad company to send me a pass, not my own company, and 
 I sent them back and thanked them very kindly ; and I told 
 them, under the opinion of the Attorney-General, that I was not 
 allowed to take them ; I received mileage. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That is certainly to your credit, 
 and it ought to be known ; that is a sort of gleam in 
 all this proceeding. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And the first gleam. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That is certainly to your credit. 
 
 Q. Your trips to Paterson, and Lake View, and Newark, and 
 elsewhere, were when you were sent for to go, by the Chairman, 
 were they? A. Called by telegraph; often times I would go 
 home and a telegram would be sent to the road man where I 
 worked, and I wouldn't wait to go home ; I would go right to the 
 place right away ; Mr. McDonnell would say it was important. ' 
 
 Q. When you say you hadn't passes over your own railroad, 
 you ride free, do you not? A. I do on the company's business. 
 
 Q. Well, coming to Trenton, for example ? A. No, sir ; the 
 State business, I pay my fare ; I travel on the Pennsylvania gen- 
 erally. 
 
 Q. But if you happened to go by the Central you wouldn't 
 pay, would you?. A. You try it as a railroad man, you will find 
 how quick you will travel. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — They have revoked that privi- 
 lege ? A. Certainly ; the conductors are not allowed to carry 
 anybody on the Reading Road ; a man is liable to be suspended, 
 as well as a man running a locomotive, for carrying anybody. 
 
 Q. If you come to Trenton by the Central Road you would 
 have to pay your fare ? A. You could only get as far as Bound 
 Brook. 
 
 Q. And do you have to pay ? J.. I don't come that way. 
 
 27 SH 
 
418 PATRICK F. DOYLE. 
 
 Q. Suppose you did, would you have to pay? A. Well, I 
 don't know ; I suppose I would if I went with some conductors ; 
 yes. 
 
 Q. Is there any rule of the road about it ? A. Yes, sir ; the 
 rule is not to carry anybody ; if you want a pass you will have ta 
 send to the office for it, and the company will give you a pass. 
 
 Q. And you didn't apply yourself for it? A. You can go 
 down to the records of the Company ; I never made application 
 to the Company for a pass, only for myself and wife if I wanted 
 to go anywhere. If I come to Bound Brook and then come to 
 Trenton and rode on my own road, you want to know whether I 
 paid anything ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees-^You have got it ; you have not 
 answered it yet. 
 
 A. I told you that a certain man there I couldn't ride with ; 
 they wouldn't carry their grandmother. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Then why don't you answer yes or 
 no. A certain man might never be on the train, and 
 you might come with some other certain man. Why 
 don't you answer the question? 
 
 Q. If you pick your train you could get through without pay- 
 ing anything, couldn't you 2 A. 1 don't know as I could. 
 
 Q. You would take a contract to do it if necessary, wouldn't 
 you? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — We won't give the fellows away ; 
 we won't ask you their names. 
 
 Q. You didn't go ofl on these errands of your own accord, but 
 went only when to do so by the Chairman ? A. When called to 
 to do so by the Chairman. 
 
 Q. I see that your bills amounted in 1893 to $1,895, and in 
 1894 to $2,220. That is substantially right, is it? ^. I believe so. 
 
 Q. Do you remember any strike which your Board succeeded 
 in composing and settling between the disputing parties ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Name it. A. 1 will name the Lehigh Valley strike. 
 
 Q. Did your Board settle that strike ? A. Yes, sir ; with the 
 conjunction of the New York Board. 
 
 Q. Is there any other ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Name it. A. The strike at Woodbine. 
 
 Q. What was that? A. The cloak makers. The operatives 
 there were driven out of the factory, and we went on the case, 
 and when we found that the superintendent of the factory was 
 taking the tag off of every fourth garment and getting the benefit 
 of it on his own book, and when the employes found fault with it 
 
PATRICK F. DOYLE. 419 
 
 he discharged them and told them to get out ; and so they went 
 on strike, and sent a committee to ISTew York, and the proprietor 
 ordered them out of the place ; so we had an investigation and 
 gave a decision on to it, and when the proprietor read the decision 
 and found out how it was that the superintendent had taken the 
 tag off every tourth garment, he discharged the superintendent, 
 and then he asked the Board what was the best thing to do, and 
 we told him ; the thing was fixed up, and I think he has put 
 another factory up since. 
 
 Q. There was no agreement of the two parties submitting it, 
 but after you had gone over it it was acquiesced in ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the employes acquiesce? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They went back to work ? A. Yes, sir. And there was a 
 case in Hoboken. 
 
 Q. Did you put in any Sundays? A. I think I put in some 
 with Commissioner Feeney, of the New York Board. 
 
 Q. What was the stress up at Paterson of so many days? A. 
 That wasn't at Paterson. 
 
 Q. Where was that work done? A. I think Taylor's Hotel, 
 with Commissioner Feeney ; Mr. McDonnell was there, I think, 
 at the same time. 
 
 Q. Who was striking then ? A. The Lehigh Valley ; we 
 were to decide on what action we were to take. 
 
 Q. When you were charging up a day for work for the State, 
 I suppose, if you did anything on that day, you would charge a 
 day, wouldn't you ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I don't see any half days charged here ? J.. I will tell you 
 how that come ; we asked the Comptroller if the State recog- 
 nized a part of a day, and he said it did not. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Then he spoke as a lawyer ? A. 
 I suppose he spoke as a lawyer. 
 
 Q. What Comptroller told you that the State didn't recognize 
 a part of a day ? A. He told the Secretary, when he went with 
 the bill ; that was Comptroller Heppenheimer. 
 
 Q. Then if you did anything on one day you charged ten 
 dollars? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. If you communicated with Mr. Chairman McDonnell by 
 telephone to Lake View about the Lehigh Valley strike, you 
 charged ten dollars ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You have heard what he said here, that a good deal of 
 settling was done by telephpning. Your report says so, which 
 you signed ? A. He might confer with a dozen people in a day. 
 
 Q. Suppose you had to confer with one or two, wouldn't you 
 put it down on your bill ? .4. If the chairman of the Board called 
 
^20 PATRICK F. DOYLE. 
 
 me to confer with him, meet at Jersey City or Paterson on cer- 
 tain occasions, I certainly put that in. 
 
 Q. If you went to do anything yourself alone, or conferred 
 with him by telephone, didn't you charge for a day? A. I did; 
 yes, sir ; when he called for it. 
 
 Q. (By Chairmau Voorhees) — Did you keep a book of entries 
 showing when you served the State as a member of the Board? 
 A. I did for a while. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — And then Romaine kept it after- 
 wards? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He is the man who got out all the bills ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you give him any information showing that you were 
 entitled to three dollars a day for expenses? A. I would make 
 a statement out to him and itemize the whole thing — that is, on 
 the items what we spent for, one thing another — but told him 
 where I was with the other members of the Board, and he would 
 figure how much pay. 
 
 Q. When you turned in your expenses, |3 a day, did you 
 spend exactly that sum? A. It wasn't always |3 a day; some- 
 times it was over, and I didn't put in that much. 
 
 Q. Three dollars a day is a pretty good allowance just for one 
 meal? A. Yes, sir; I have seen where we got a carriage, and 
 in one particular case where we went down to Bayonne, and 
 that cost $8, but we didn't put in the bill for it. 
 
 Q. In all cases that you charge expenses these are your per- 
 sonal expenses? A. Yes, sir; went in on the bill of expense. 
 
 ^. You go to a hotel and get $3 worth of grub? A. ISIot in 
 that case, no. 
 
 Q^ I show you a bill, Huber & Walter, for 1256.10, paid May, 
 1893? A. Mr. Secretary will tell you more about that. 
 
 Q. That was for blanks used in your duties, was it, or to be 
 used? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And these bills here for interpreters at West floboken ; 
 Tvhut occasion did you have for interpreter at West Hoboken ? 
 A. The people there couldn't speak the English language. 
 
 Q. What was the trouble there? A. Strike of silk workers. 
 
 Q. I see a number of bills here for hiring of horses in Phillips- 
 l)urg and Jersey City? A. Those were all at the investigation; 
 they are sworn to. 
 
 Q. I know they are; most of them are not, but some of them 
 are. A. I guess the Phillipsburg h^re and Jersey City hire was 
 sworn to. 
 
 Q. What was the occasion for hiring? A. The investigation; 
 
JOSEPH P. m'donnell. 42L 
 
 it was the silk strike in Phillipsburg, and the strike in Jersey 
 City was the New York and New Jersey Telephone Company. 
 
 Q. Any testimony taken ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you often do that 1 A. 1 couldn't tell the number of 
 times. 
 
 Q. What was your procedure; did you just call in the strikers 
 and put them on the stand ? A. Call for them possibly. 
 
 Q. That is, give notice to both parties? A. Yes, sir; sub- 
 poena them. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact, no case of over one party attended 
 before you ? A. No, sir ; only one case where that happened ; 
 that was in Bridgeton, and the counsel there for this glass com- 
 pany took exceptions to the Board issuing subpoenas compelling 
 witnesses to testify; he said he would give the information, but 
 he wouldn't testify under oath ; so we couldn't go any further in 
 the case. He asked us who made the law — Mr. Potter, and we 
 told him Grovernor Leon Abbett, and he said he was surprised. 
 
 Joseph P. McDonnell, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I see bills here for furniture, Lockwood Brothers, |90; 
 where was that for ? A. That was for two desks and two chairs. 
 
 Q. For what place ? A. For the office, and for the Secretary's 
 office — private office. 
 
 Q. Where ? A. In Paterson, Lakeview, in the office — regular 
 office of the Board. 
 
 Q. I notice other bills after ; they are the same, I suppose ? 
 A. Those have been returned to the State. 
 
 Q. Those were placed in your house, or in the office ? A. la 
 the office — in the regular office. 
 
 Q. That is, in the newspaper building? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you this bill of Huber's, which I spoke of, for 
 printing various blanks ; for instance, 500 agreements to settle 
 differences; none of those were ever required, were they? A. 
 Yes, sir ; some of them. 
 
 Q. Did you not tell us that there never was a signed agree- 
 ment ? A. Well, there are different kinds of blanks; I couldn't 
 explain them unless I had the blanks with me ; they ought to be 
 here ; they were shipped a couple of days ago. 
 
 Q. Five hundred employers' applications ; what does that 
 mean? A. Application for mediation or arbitration of the 
 Board. 
 
 Q. Were those ever used ? ^. I don't believe any of the em- 
 ployers' were, but the applications of the employes were in many 
 
422 JOSEPH p. m'donnell. 
 
 cases ; they have been returned here, and the desks and every- 
 thing. 
 
 Q. I see bills for carriage hire at $5 a day in Paterson ; what 
 was the occasion of that? A. Well, I got it during some of the 
 large strikes, when it was necessary to go from one of the em- 
 ployers to the employes, diflerent places where they met, in bad 
 weather, in order to facilitate matters and bring the people to- 
 gether ; it was very rare. 
 
 Q. Here is furniture from Corts & Delahey, of Hoboken ; wal- 
 nut bookcase? A. Yes, sir; that has been returned here. 
 
 Q. That was for your blanks ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This letter attached ; that is one of your engraved letter- 
 heads, is it not, of your Board ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is another one, of another style ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Don't you think this whole arrangement was conducted on 
 a rather extravagant plan ? A. Well, we simply followed the 
 example of Massachusetts and New York, the Boards of those 
 States; we communicated with them and received copies of 
 their blanks and information from them respecting their methods. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I see here the first charge on this en- 
 graved bill here is " Engraving and lithographing 1,000 letter and 
 1,000 note-heads, $34.15, and 500 envelopes at $22.70, and 2,000 
 cards, 500 each of Messrs. McDonnell, Eomaine, Doyle and Ro- 
 berson, $20, for those three items; then there is 2,000 letter- 
 heads here at $18.20, and envelopes again at $40.25. Isn't that 
 rather high priced for that sort of work? A. Well, for that 
 kind of work, I think not ; I don't know much about that class 
 of work ; I am not engaged in it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Here was 2,000 cards, 500 for each 
 member of the Board, a thousand letter, a thousand notes, with 
 engraving — that is nearly two cents a sheet for the letter sheets ? 
 A. That is special work. 
 
 Q. Doesn't it strike you that that kind of extravagance would 
 be likely to impress laboring men who are anxious to have their 
 condition bettered rather unfavorably ? A. We must first come 
 to the conclusion that it is extravagant. 
 
 Q. I don't think that bill needs much argument. I don't see 
 any such stationery in the State House, not even in the Legis- 
 lature. A. I am not engaged in that class of work; that is en- 
 tirely a different class of work; but if Mr. Huber or Mr. Walter, 
 the two members of that firm, were here, they could explain it ; 
 I am sorry they are not, but I don't think that is very extrava- 
 gant if you want decent kind of work done. 
 
JOHN W. KOMAINE. 423 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have prepared a schedule showing the 
 amount drawn by the three commissioners and the 
 clerk, which I will submit for the stenographer to place 
 in the record. 
 
 Mr. Eoberson's drafts were about the same as the 
 others. In 1893, $2,114.02; in 1894, $2,200.41. The 
 secretary, Mr. Komaine, in 1893 drew $2,124; in 1894, 
 $2,604. This is the schedule which I would like to 
 hand up. 
 
 John W. Eomainb, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Me. Cokbin. 
 
 Q. When these meetings were held at Trenton did you come, 
 too ? A. Some of them ; whenever called by the chairman. 
 
 Q. And when they were held at Paterson or Lakeview, were 
 you there? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 A. I show you bill of February, 1895, which I picked up at 
 random, for work done in January. January 3, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 
 12, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 21, at the office, working on annual reports 
 for 1893 and 1894, and also engaged on other Board work. What 
 is the report for 1893 and 1894 that requires so much time? A. 
 Well, it is in the hands of the printer, if any one will get it from 
 there. 
 
 Q. Can't you state ; we can't get it from the hands of the 
 printer, but, as you prepared it and got paid for it, you ought to 
 be able to state what it is ? A. 1 can state this, as tar as the 
 number of cases were concerned ; I think about 135 or 140 have 
 been investigated by the Board, and it is the record of the pro- 
 ceedings in each of those cases. 
 
 Q. Did you copy it from your minutes? A. Yes, sir; some 
 of it from the minutes and some from other records. 
 
 Q. Your preface here states that 61 cases were considered by 
 the Board. Is that correct ? A. 61 — 130 odd altogether. 
 
 Q. It says 122 came to your knowledge, but you considered 
 61 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I see in some of Mr. McDonnell's bills this : "At Lakeview, 
 considering strike." Now, when you staid at home and thought 
 of it in that way, did you charge that ? A. Mr. McDonnell is 
 here and can answer for himself. You don't find any suc^ii 
 charge as that in my bill. 
 
 Q. Well, " considering " wasn't one of your duties ? A. ISTo, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — But you were with him while 
 he was considering ? A. Not always. 
 
424 JOHN W. ROMAINE. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Your charges are simply beyond Mc- 
 Donnell, forty-one days, and his is only nineteen. A. I had to 
 do all the writing for the report. 
 
 Q. Did you do it yourself or with a stenographer ? J.. I did 
 it myself ; I didn't have the pleasure of owning a typewriter. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You could have hired it done 
 for about — A. I am sorry I didn't now. We tried to get that 
 done through the Comptroller, and he said he would allow us a 
 hundred dollars. 
 
 Q. A hundred dollars for what ? A. To have the report 
 printed or typewritten ; but we found the best estimate we could 
 get amounted to $296, and he objected to that amount, and con- 
 sequently we had to do it. 
 
 Q. This report of 1895, signed by the Commissioners and 
 yourself, seems to be complete and refers to the schedules 
 annexed ; isn't all the rest of the report in the nature of appen- 
 dices to this ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. There is a longer report signed ? A. Yes, sir, which 
 covers in detail, and the testimony taken in detail. 
 
 Q. And the testimony appended ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And has that gone to the printer ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — You had better stop that printer 
 right oflE. 
 
 Witness — We have not sent it to the printer ; the 
 Comptroller sent it. 
 
 Chairman Yoorhees — I mean the Comptroller had 
 better stop the printer. Have these clippings also gone 
 to the printer ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you print any clippings? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Any quotations from writers ? A. Some. 
 
 Q. I see there is here a quotation of Max Muller? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Is that an excerpt of Max Muller ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then the report contains the testimony taken and an 
 account of what you did in each case ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And certain excerpts from writers ? A. Well, very little 
 of that ; of course, they were all taken from what was written 
 at the time. 
 
 Q. Does it contain any further sayings of your own Board 
 except what are here ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. That is all the original matter that we have here ? A. 
 That is merely the introductory. 
 
JOHN W. EOMAINE. 425 
 
 Q. Well, the rest of it is all copied testimony, or proceedings 
 or quotations ? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. Then the entire original matter is now before us? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — He don't mean that. 
 Mr. Oorbin — I think the reading of this report will 
 show that. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did it take you forty-one days — 
 
 A. No ; there is of manuscript about that much in height of 
 paper — writing. 
 
 Q. It isn't original matter? A. It was original matter that 
 was given by witnesses. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You could hire a typewriter for 
 thirty dollars a month to have done it? A. ISot a very excel- 
 lent one. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You can get them for $15 a 
 week, that is $60 a month? A. Not up our way. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Well, things do come high up 
 your way. 
 
 Q. In furnishing this report to the Comptroller, did you 
 append to your report the original transcript of the testimony 
 which you had on file, or did you make a copy for the Comp- 
 troller ? A. Made a copy. 
 
 Q. And it is that for which you have been paid ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you were getting ten dollars a day as a copyist ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; writing it out. 
 
 Q. Is that so ? A. Put it any way you can ; it is the wages 
 when I did a day's work. 
 
 Q. That is high wages. I know many a poor devil who would 
 be willing to do it for a dollar and a half; many of the laborers 
 that you have been representing would have thought it a God- 
 send to have written that for a dollar and a half a day. A. So 
 have I, but I don't do it any more. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You have been in the employ of 
 the State ? A. For the first time. 
 
 Q. This report which we have here before us in print is dated 
 January, 1895, and I assume was sent in at the opening of the 
 Legislature ? A. Well, it wasn't delivered to the Comptroller 
 until, I think, in the fore part of February. 
 
 Q. Now, the charges for the preparation of the report continue 
 on until about the first of March. I don't understand how that 
 could be so. If you were writing out this testimony, what did 
 the members of the Board have to do about the report, after this 
 
426 JOHN W. ROMAINE. 
 
 report of January had gone in? A. The members of the Board 
 went over all the cases after I had written them up. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skiem. 
 
 Q. What was the necessity of their doing it, and you as clerk 
 of the Board — what was the necessity of these gentlemen going 
 over and comparing your work? A. I have nothing to do with 
 it. 
 
 Q. You had no reason? A. I don't know what reason they 
 
 had. 
 
 Q. What reason had you — weren't you a sufficient copyist ? A. 
 I was directed by the Board. 
 
 Q. You wait until I ask you a question. Weren't you suffi- 
 ciently able to copy that without these other gentlemen at ten 
 dollars a day going over it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And yet they compared your statement after you had done 
 it. A. They read it over, and made such corrections of the 
 testimony — 
 
 Examined by Me. Curbin. 
 
 Q. Doesn't it strike you that ninety-eight days charged up 
 here to the State at ten dollars a day, expense of preparing that 
 report and schedules, is rather an extravagant charge? A. Well, 
 I don't think so, sir. I had to work, and certainly as long as the 
 law gave me a right to that charge I — I don't say if it hadn't 
 been in the laws I would have done it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What was the occasion of stopping at 
 the time you did in making up this report ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — What do you mean — it ought 
 to be going on yet? 
 
 Senator Skirm — I want to know. Because the report 
 went in to the Legislature in January, amd they kept it 
 up until the first of March ; I want to know why it 
 ceased, why it didn't continue during the month of 
 March. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Legislature adjourned. 
 Senator Skirm — I supposed there was some reason. 
 Witness — That report was charged before the Legis- 
 lature adjourned. 
 Q. I find that your charges substantially all run like this : 
 "October Ist, 1894, Lake view to Camden, 109 miles travel, 
 |4.36; expenses, $3.25." The next day, " Camden to Lakeview, 
 109 miles, $4.36; expenses, $3.05. Lakeview to Newark and re- 
 turn, 28 miles, $1.12; expenses, $3," "At office," next day, 
 
JOHN W. HOMAINE. 427 
 
 " general work ; at office, general work "; no expenses there. 
 " Lakeview to Passaic and return, 10 miles travel, 40 cts. ; ex- 
 penses, $2.75." Now, what could you make out in the way of 
 expenses in going down to Newark, $3, or to Passaic, $3 ? How 
 could you explain it? 4. If you get two or three meals a day — 
 
 Q. Didn't you get breakfast before you started for Passaic ? 
 A. Sometimes. 
 
 Q. Don't you get supper with your wife after you get home at 
 night? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, you ought to. A. How do you know but that maybe 
 I have got no wife ? My wife is dead. 
 
 Chairman Yoorhees — Don't you know that the duties 
 of this position were such that he couldn't get back until 
 1 1 o'clock ? 
 
 Q. But that is not once ; that is daily; $3.10, $3.25, $3, |3.15. 
 When you travel from Lakeview to Paterson, which is only four 
 miles out and back, you charged $3.15 for expenses ? A. That 
 depends upon what you have to do, when you get through ; if 
 you didn't get home before midnight. 
 
 Q. Didn't eat two or three dinners? A. I generally eat what 
 I want when I get hungry. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Did you get outside of $3.15 
 worth at one time ? 
 
 A. I can't travel short of three or four dollars a day. 
 
 y. Mr. McDonnell has testified that the office of your Board 
 was at his printing office, which was right alongside of his house ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How far from that is your boarding house? A. Well, 
 about one hundred feet. 
 
 Q. What occasion in traveling that distance was there in spend- 
 ing $3.15 for dinner? A. You don't find $3.15 for dinner. 
 
 Q. It is all Paterson, isn't it ? A. We live at the extreme 
 southern end of the city — South Paterson. 
 
 Q. You charge up four miles, and I assume you have got the 
 miles right; that is two miles down and two back ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 I thiuk it is more than that. 
 
 Q. Suppose you did get into the trolley car and ride eight 
 miles on the trolley ; what occasion was there for spending $3.15 ? 
 A. I can't tell you. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Was there another strike down 
 at Paterson ? A. There were strikes there all the time. 
 Senator Voorhees — I should think there were. 
 
 Q. I am not speaking of any particular day which you can't 
 remember, but I find this goes on for every day that you have 
 
428 JOHN W. KOMAINE. 
 
 charged the State; that you have charged from $2.90 to $4 for 
 these expenses ? A. Very seldom four dollars. 
 
 Q. Here is one $4.10, right before me. You went from Lake- 
 view to ISTewark and returned, 28 miles, $1.12. What is the 
 excursion fare, down and back 1 A. \ couldn't tell you. 
 
 Q. And the next day $2.95, in Newark. The next day in 
 Paterson, $2.70. It will average more than $3. Did you spend 
 any such amount as that for dinners ? A. Spent it for dinner or 
 other things when I went off. 
 
 Q. What were "the other things"? A. I don't know; a great 
 many things ; car fare — 
 
 Q. But you have got twice as much car tare as you want now ? 
 A. Yes, sir ; I don't complain of that — for meals. 
 
 §. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Now, what were the other 
 things ? A. Well, I couldn't tell you now any particular day ; 
 you have traveled yourself. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I didn't have to spend that 
 much. 
 
 Q. Here is another way of looking at it. You got first your 
 ten dollars a day? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You got four cents a mile, and by looking this over you 
 will see that your mileage was enough to afford you ample means 
 to have paid for lunches and dinners, and yet you have added 
 over three dollars a day? A. The law says we are entitled to 
 our actual expenses. In consultation with Governor Abbett at 
 that time, when we first started to make out bills, he fixed the 
 amount at about three dollars a day. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Then you were ahead of the game 
 if it didn't cost you throe dollars ? ^1. It generally cost us more 
 than that. 
 
 Q. You don't want us to believe that it cost more than that 
 and you didn't get it out of the State? A. It generally cost us 
 more than that. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Will counsel kindly note there 
 is another ray of sunshine ? 
 
 Q. We all know that an ordinary luncheon in New Jersey 
 costs from fifty cents to a dollar. How could you spend $3 a day 
 unless you bought wine at the expense of the State right along ? 
 A. No, sir, never had any wine ; a commoner drink is good 
 enough for me. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. Was it beer ? A. We have the credit on my side of the 
 house of drinking whiskey ; I suppose I may as well take my 
 share of it. 
 
JOHN W. ROMAINE. 429 
 
 Q. That is " the other things " ? A. That is what all good 
 Democrats do. 
 
 Q. That is " the other things " ? A. That may be. 
 
 Q. Then you spend one dollar for lunch and two dollars for 
 whiskey? A. No, sir, not that quantity; you might put it the 
 other way. 
 
 Q. Two dollars for lunch and one dollar lor whiskey ; that was 
 ten drinks. After you had taken ten drinks could you do any 
 State business? A. Probably the State business was over. 
 
 Q. How did you get home? A. I never was carried home. 
 
 Q. Now, as a matter of fact, didn't you treat some friends ? 
 A. Well, I don't think the State ever paid that. 
 
 Q. I mean in that $3 didn't you treat some friends ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. That is for drinks and solid food? A. I can afford to pay 
 for my own. 
 
 Q. For liquid and dry goods you paid three dollars? A. (No 
 answer.) 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I understood you to say that some conversation was had 
 about this with Governor Abbett? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he indicated that three dollars a day would be about 
 right? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you have charged three dollars a day, about? A. 
 Yes, sir ; we did charge — 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. Didn't you make up these bills generally for the other 
 mehibers of the Board ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have any data given you from which you made up 
 the expenses ? A. From each individual ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Isn't it surprising that they should come out on the even 
 quarters and halves? A. I am glad they did, because it was 
 more convenient for me. 
 
 Q. It was easier for you to figure it up ? A. They gave me 
 their own statements, and I made up the bills from their own 
 statements, each individual member. 
 
 <y. (By Senator Ketcham) — Did you settle this strike of the 
 hatters in Newark; they had along strike there? A. No, sir; 
 we didn't. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — There was a general complaint 
 that you didn't settle it? A. We occupied a great deal of time, 
 and just about when we were arriving at a settlement there was 
 
430 PATRICK F. DOYLE ASHER E. LAMBERT. 
 
 some of the workmen stoned the factory of Yule & Baglin and 
 spoiled all the work of the Board. Had it not been for that, we 
 would probably have arranged that matter. 
 
 Q. I get it that there are only three strikes that have been 
 settled? A. A great many more; the garment workers of 
 Newark. 
 
 Q. Now, the next one? A. There is the Lehigh Valley, and 
 Adams & Co.; that is in Paterson, silk and cotton weavers^ they 
 had two strikes there ; and Woodbine cloak makers, and granite 
 cutters ; that is all that I recall now. 
 
 Q. That is about all there are. One of your circulars sent to 
 me simply said that ; I read them all over ; but where you were 
 brought up to any existing difficulties, there were six of those. 
 A. If you have it in writing, that is correct; but as I say, the 
 record will show for itself on those matters. Of course, a great 
 many of these strikes have been investigated and — 
 
 Q. I know ; you could simply recommend ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Patrick P. Doyle. 
 
 At the public hearing I didn't get a chance to defend 
 myself. There was an article in the press saying that 
 one of the members was drunk, and I hope there is 
 nobody on this Committee or in this State thinks that 
 was me. I didn't have a chance to defend myself, and 
 one of the papers said that one of the members of the 
 Board had no reputation. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It is pretty safe to say that a 
 locomotive engineer has a reputation for sobriety or he 
 couldn't hold his position. 
 
 AsHER E. Lambert, recalled. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Some weeks ago the Committee took up 
 the matter of the printing of public documents and 
 made an inspection. I have had an estimate made of 
 the amount on hand of the different publications. 
 Q. Mr. Lambert, have you made a measurement and compu- 
 tation of the quantity on hand in the basement of the State 
 House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you find the quantity to be of loose documents 
 in pounds? A. 4,344 cubic feet; there were 217,200 pounds. 
 Q. About 109 tons? A. lOSJ tons. 
 
 Q. Did you take any account of the bound documents ? A. 
 No, sir ; I found about 500, I think, of the bound documents. 
 
EDWARD P. WAITE. 431 
 
 Q. And there are other bound books in large quantities, are 
 there not? A. Yes, sir ; very large. 
 
 Q. And did you take any account of the unbound documents 
 which are in the vaults of the State Board of Assessors and 
 others ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. So that what you have given us, the 217,000 pounds, is 
 simply what is loose lying in the cellar ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You have made a measurement of the entire quantity ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then did you weigh a part 2 A. I weighed a cubic foot 
 and it weighed exactly 50 pounds, and I made a calculation from 
 that. 
 
 Edward P. Waits sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. Have you assisted in making up a list of the public docu- 
 ments on hand in the State House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And have you made a schedule of those remaining from 
 1888 to the present time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Showing the number originally printed and the number 
 remaining over ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And also the cost each year? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is this the schedule ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who assisted in making it up ? A. Mr. Bechtel — that is, 
 in taking an account of stock. 
 
 Q. This is taken from the stock actually found on hand down- 
 stairs ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, does this include everything ? A. 'So; that is what 
 is called the " over." 
 
 Q. What is called " over " is what is now left on hand ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got them all, or are there some bound ones that 
 you have not got? A. I suppose there are several thousand 
 bound ones that I haven't got. 
 
 Q. How about those there in the vaults of the State Board of 
 Assessors, and others ? 4. I haven't got those. 
 
 Q. This schedule simply shows what are loose in the cellar of 
 the State House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will offer this schedule for the inspec- 
 tion of the Committee, and as illustrative I will call 
 their attention to some of the items. For instance, in 
 1888 the State Board of Assessors had printed 6,000 
 copies of their report, of which 3,000 are still on hand. 
 In 1889 they printed 6,000 copies, of which 2,500 re- 
 
432 PRINTING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 
 
 main on hand, loose in the cellar. In 1990 they printed 
 6,000, of which 3,500 remain. In 1891 they printed 
 3,000, of which 1,000 still remain. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Let me ask you by whose 
 authority were they printed ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The . printing of the documents ? By 
 the act of 1877 it was provided that such of the docu- 
 ments only as the Joint Committee on Printing of the 
 two Houses should determine should be printed, and 
 this joint committee of the Legislature was accustomed 
 to meet annually and decide what documents should be 
 printed, those that were of the most importance. That 
 act was in force until 1883, when a new act was passed, 
 repealing all former legislation incident to that, and 
 providing that thereafter the laws should be published, 
 and the journal of the two Houses should be published, 
 and the Comptroller should advertise for bids for pub- 
 lishing them, and he should also advertise for bids for 
 printing the public documents, and thereafter only 
 such documents should be printed, in such manner and 
 in such quantities, as the Legislature should determine 
 in the session of that year. 
 
 Now, as a matter of fact, I understand the Legislature 
 adjourned that year, 1883, without designating how 
 many of the documents should be printed, and that tLis 
 practice has grown up. The Comptroller has each year, 
 after the Legislature has adjourned, called the Joint 
 Committee together, just as he did under the old law, 
 and that Committee has taken last year's schedule and 
 made up a new one, and from that time to this the docu- 
 ments have substantially all been printed. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — And in spite of the expressed 
 provisions of the law ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — They have been printed under the au- 
 thority of that Committee ; the Legislature has not acted. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Legislature delegated to 
 this Joint Committee the power ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No. And I may say that everything 
 that is sent here in the way of documents, with the ap- 
 pendices and schedules and everything else accompany- 
 ing them seems from that time to this to have been 
 printed. The law says that such parts of these docu- 
 ments as are printed shall be printed in one volume. 
 They have grown to such a mass that I believe this last 
 
FEINTING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 433 
 
 year they compriae five fat volumes of twelve or fifteen 
 hundred pages apiece. These seems to be no super- 
 vision in the way of excluding certain parts of them, but, 
 in fact, the only discretion that is exercised by this com- 
 mittee being to say how many shall be printed ; and so 
 it has gone drifting along to this day, the Legislature 
 not designating each year as it ought to do. That act of 
 1883 manifestly requires and contemplates the passage 
 of an annual bill or an annual joint resolution designa- 
 ting what documents or parts of documents, and in what 
 numbers, and in what manner they shall be printed. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — And that shall be done by com- 
 petition, as I understand ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, upon competition. Well, now, the 
 Comptroller does open the matter to competition by 
 inviting bids for all that is done, but he invites bids to 
 print these not only in English, but in the German 
 language ; and some of the largest documents printed 
 in the State, like the State G-eologist's Report and the 
 Board of Health Report and the Board of Education 
 Report, have been printed in the German tongue. Some 
 documents have been printed in the Italian language, 
 and the Comptroller and the Committee have advertised 
 for much of this printing, which I must submit, in the 
 absence of any legislation, seems not to be contem- 
 plated by the act of 1883. Now it seems further, than 
 that, that documents have come in from various Boards 
 or Commissions in the State after the printing has been 
 given out, and it has been the practice of the Comp- 
 troller to send these documents to some printer, a cur- 
 rent printer or some other, and have them printed. 
 Personally I cannot find any authority of law for that 
 proceeding. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Do they claim that there is ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't know. There is the sanction of 
 custom, but I am stating to you the practice. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — A custom that has grown up 
 in spite of the expressed language of the act, which 
 says that the Legislature shall do it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That seems to be so. The act of 1883 
 is very explicit, " and such documents, and such man- 
 ner, and in such way as the legislature say, are to be 
 printed." 
 
 28 SH 
 
434 PRINTING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I have no doubt at all that the 
 Legislature would set down, without hesitation, upon the 
 printing of this State Board of Arbitration report, be- 
 cause it so utterly useless. Yet I understand that that 
 would be printed as a matter of course, and hundreds 
 of copies of it go down into the cellar and lay there. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I want to say this, that this printing 
 that has been given out by competition throughout the 
 state has been done at reasonable prices ; the competi- 
 tion is somewhat sharp. But the printing that is given 
 out afterwards is another matter. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Not on the same price ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir ; moreover, it does not go to the 
 same printer, even ; moreover, the printing in German 
 is at a very diflerent price. You will find contracts on 
 file here for setting up the English at 23 cents per 
 thousand ems, and you will find right along there, in 
 some of those, 81 cents paid for setting up these Grer- 
 man reports. These German reports are all lying in 
 the vaults now. I may say to you, about the Geologist's 
 Report of 1893, I don't know that a single volume has 
 been published. Mr. Smock told me yesterday he 
 didn't know that that had been printed, and those books 
 cost this State many thousands of dollars. 
 
 Now, there has just come info the State House here 
 the other day a public printing in German of the school 
 report of 1893. It is in two parts, which I will show 
 you in a minute. The first part is a very fat one, as you 
 will see. Now, that is part one of the Board of Educa- 
 tion report; there are 1,000 copies; that one volume 
 cost this State $12 — they cost .$12 apiece. This 
 little one is cheaper; there were a thousand of 
 those printed, just came in the other day, costing 
 $6,300, or $6.30 apiece ; so that to get one com- 
 plete report of the School Board of 1893, it cost this 
 State $18.30. Now, these German editions seem prac- 
 tically to be unsuccessful publications ; they do not go, 
 and they have staid here to the present time in thou- 
 sands, and I believe the Custodian within the last few 
 days has been sending some of them out to the German 
 newspapers to secure their aid in circulating them, and 
 to see if we can't make the people take them. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Chromos ? 
 
FEINTING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 435 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't know about that ; but they have 
 not been circulated ; they are here ; editions here which 
 are absolutely unpacked, as I am informed. 
 Q. Did you make up this schedule of the German reports on 
 hand? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — With regard to this matter, I should add 
 that there is a certain amount of printing done which 
 is ordered by the Legislature itself. A vicious custom 
 has grown up on the first day of the session for a mem- 
 ber to rise in his place and, before the House is fairly 
 organized, move that so many thousands of the Gov- 
 ernor's message be printed in the Italian tongue or the 
 German language, in such a Zeitung, in such a town ; 
 and he doesn't get off his feet before another member 
 rises and wants to print it in the Arbeiter-Zeitung from 
 some other place : so that a lot of printing of that sort 
 is, by resolution of the House, ordered. It is very 
 questionable whether some of that is lawfully ordered. 
 The Houses, I suppose, have a right to order from the 
 current printer any part of their proceedings, but most 
 of this stuff is ordered, and I shall, before we get 
 through with this subject, show you resolutions put 
 through here in 1891 and 1892 where a single resolu- 
 tion carried a matter of $15,000 or $20,000 worth of 
 printing. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — And outside of such printing 
 as was necessary and proper for the conducting of the 
 Legislature. I imagine the printing for the use of the 
 members for facilitating the Legislature would be with- 
 in the law. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Undoubtedly. The Governor's message 
 should be printed, and it is printed before the Legislature 
 meets ; then the House orders it printed, there is an- 
 other edition ; and the Senate, there is another edition ; 
 then it goes into the House Minutes, there is another 
 edition ; then it goes into the Senate Journal, there is 
 another edition. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — And every newspaper in the 
 State wants an advance copy. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — And it goes into the book of documents, 
 and there is another edition ; how many editions the 
 State pays for I couldn't tell without figuring it up. 
 
 itTow, the abuses that have grown up in connection 
 with this subject are chiefly due to the Legislature itself. 
 
436 PRINTING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 
 
 I think that the course pursued by the State Officers in 
 these last few years in acting in advance of the legisla- 
 tive order is questionable, but the trouble is with the 
 Legislature. This loose printing that is ordered here, 
 and then leaving the subject all these years without cor- 
 rection ; and I want to say this, furthermore, that you 
 don't know what the printing is costing you. You can 
 take the Treasurer's report and turn to this last year, 
 1894, and under the head of printing you will see, if my 
 memory serves me right, sixty odd thousand dollars. 
 You take every account in there almost and look 
 through it and you will find printing, and add them to- 
 gether and you will find that the printing for this last 
 year is about $110,000. To that must be added the pub- 
 lication of the laws, and if I am not mistaken in my 
 figures, |200,000 will not pay the printing of this State 
 for the year. It cost, if I have read the figures right, 
 more than any other branch of the government ; the 
 entire judiciary expenses are less; the legislative ex- 
 penses are less; the lunatic asylum expenses are less; 
 the State prison does not cost half as much. 
 
 It has gone this length because it is hidden in so 
 many places that nobody seems to observe how the 
 State's money is going in this direction. IS'ow, there is 
 this to be said : there is a great deal of perfectly legiti- 
 mate, proper, useful printing which should be done for 
 the State ; but if this unnecessary printing were done 
 away with, and this duplication of printing, the same 
 thing, and the subject were put upon a proper basis by 
 a legislative act, I think the State could readily be saved 
 150,000 a year without anybody suffering for' all the 
 documents that they may desire. Now, I have had 
 these schedules prepared so that we may see at a glance 
 that these documents do not circulate. This schedule 
 runs back to 1888 ; it might have gone back further ; it 
 should be remembered, however, that since 1888 there 
 have been clearings out of the cellar, so that the docu- 
 ments which did not circulate have, doubtless, gone to 
 the paper mill or to the junk shop, and this by no means 
 represents all of those which are wasted. 
 
 I have called attention to it because it appears to be 
 the largest of all the State expenditures, and because it 
 seems to be one which ought to be regulated by an act. 
 I think the State officers feel as I do about it — that it la 
 
PRINTING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 437 
 
 a matter which the Legislature ought to deal with. It 
 certainly would relieve them from a responsibility 
 which is not pleasant to carry, and if a proper act could 
 be framed, would put the matter on a much more 
 reasonable basis, and one which would make the docu- 
 ments more useful and more valuable if the people of 
 the State wanted them. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Do you say there is no legislative 
 authority for the printing of these documents, except as 
 the Legislature may settle it each year ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think, to be accurate, I had better 
 read the act. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — I think this is a very interesting 
 subject. I want to say that, as a member of the Joict 
 Committee on Printing, that I was called here to the 
 State House one day last summer ; it was a new experi- 
 ence to me ; I found the Committee was mostly present, 
 and the Governor was chairman of the Committee, and 
 what was there stated by the Grovernor and others was 
 that a portion of this printing was fixed by the statute, 
 and we had no power to change it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is the laws. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Ko, sir; these documents; and 
 the result of the work of that day was to cut ofi some 
 $15,000 for printing for this past year, but we thought 
 we were doing a pretty nice thing. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is true in the last year it has been 
 cut off. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — But the statement was positively 
 made that we couldn't cut off" any more, because it was 
 fixed by statute. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There must be some provision that so 
 many copies of the same thing should be printed 
 annually, but the Laws and the Journal of the two 
 Houses are required by law to be printed. 
 
 The act I refer to is Chapter 163, of the Laws of 1883. 
 
 (Mr. Corbin read the law.) 
 
 In the absence of any action of the Legislature the 
 Joint Committee has taken the matter in hand, as they 
 did under the old law. 
 
 I think, Mr. Chairman, unless you desire some further 
 statement concerning these schedules, we will suspend at 
 this point. 
 
438 STATE BOARD OF ARBITRATION. 
 
 Adjourned until Friday, April 12lh, 1895, at 10 
 o'clock A. M. 
 
 April 12, 1895—10 A.M. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — At the last sessioD, the records of the State 
 Board of Arbitration were not produced. It was stated that 
 they were on the way to Trenton, and they have since reached 
 here. I desire to call the attention of the Committee to the 
 minutes, and to the report which appears to be in the hands of 
 the printer, and which we have obtained for examination. 
 
 The minutes of the Board appear to cover only the period 
 from its organization, December 6, 1892, to March 7, 1893- 
 Since that time the Board appears to have kept no minutes; that 
 is, for the past two years. 
 
 I call attention to the minute on page 7, which shows that the 
 Board was organized on December 6, 1892; also, to the minute 
 on page 13, being the meeting of December 13, 1892, from which 
 I will read. After taking up the bills paid diflerent members of 
 the Board, and passing on them, this was adopted : 
 
 " Whereas, The dwelling of the President is situated in the 
 suburbs of Paterson, and delay attends the transmitting and re- 
 ceiving of dispatches; and, whereas, a telephone in said dwell- 
 ing would afford a ready means of communication between the 
 members of the Board and other persons who might require the 
 services of the Board ; therefore be it resolved, that the presi- 
 dent be and he is hereby authorized to cause a longdistance tele- 
 phone to be placed in his residence at Lake View, and that the 
 rent of the same be charged to the State. Carried." 
 
 At the same time they resolved to pay the rent for the room 
 in which they were sitting that day. 
 
 I call attention to page 16 of the minutes, being the meeting 
 of December '22, 1892 : " Motion was made by Mr. Doyle, and 
 seconded by Mr. Roberson, that the hotel expenses of each mem- 
 ber and the secretary be charged at the fixed rate of $3 per day 
 for each day they are actually absent from their homes on busi- 
 ness connected with this Board. Carried." 
 
 That will account for some of the charges of $'6 a day which 
 we did not account for before. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — They all averaged about $3 a day? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — When they were away from home I think they 
 are charged at $3, substantially that every time ; but when they 
 
STATE BOARD OF ARBITRATION. 439 
 
 were home in Paterson or went to Jersey City and got luncheon, 
 the luncheon varied from $2.50 to $3.75. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Averaging about three dollars. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Page 21 ; meeting of January 5th, 1893 ; I read 
 this minute as an .example of the minutes to be found here as to 
 the action of the Board. It is where labor troubles really 
 existed : 
 
 " The Board met at Bridgeton. On motion of Mr. Doyle the 
 Secretary was instructed to call on the Cumberland Glass Com- 
 pany and again to have the matter in dispute settled. The Sec- 
 retary returned and reported having held a conference with Mr. 
 Bassett, Superintendent of the Cumberland Glass Company, who 
 positively declined to yield the point of the number of appren- 
 tices to be employed. Finding the company so bitterly opposed 
 to mediation or arbitration, and so doggedly determined in 
 rejecting all the oflers of a compromise, the Board decided to 
 investigate the charges brought against the firm by former em- 
 ployes of oftsetting wages with store-goods, a denial of which had 
 been made by the firm." 
 
 l^Tow, without stopping to comment very much, that strikes me 
 as a very insignificant sort of a record for a Board of the State of 
 New Jersey to make. It is apparent from it that the only dis- 
 pute was as to whether this manufacturing concern should be 
 allowed to have apprentices, or how many apprentices, and this 
 Board went to Bridgeton and sent their Secretary to them, and 
 they refused to arbitrate that question. 
 
 The Board then, evidently in a pet, in anger, adopts this 
 minute, full of denunciatory adverbs, and proposes to investigate 
 something that has not been brought to their attention, that 
 some former employees have said that this company has hereto- 
 fore offset goods against wages, which the company strenuously 
 denied. In other words, because they wouldn't do one thing 
 that they wanted they set. themselves up as a court to punish 
 them for something else. 
 
 Page 25, January 16th, 1893. " It was moved and seconded 
 that twenty copies of the State Manual be purchased for the use 
 of the Board, and that the bill for the same be forwarded to the 
 State. Carried." 
 
 Senator Skirm — How many members were there of the 
 Board ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Three. At this meeting a letter was received 
 from Governor Abbett, declining to give advice to the Board on 
 account of his term of office being nearly at an end. 
 
440 STATE BOARD OF AEBITEATION. 
 
 Page 29, February Ist, 1893, they met at Paterson. The presi- 
 dent had been informed that the strike of the weavers employed 
 in the mill of Simpson & Company was still in force, and at once 
 called this meeting. "A committee of the striking weavers ap- 
 peared and said that the difficulties had been amicably settled 
 early this morning, with a decided victory for the weavers, and 
 all had agreed to return to work." 
 
 I read that as a characteristic entry. They generally got there 
 the morning after the strike was settled. In other words, their 
 services were not required ; on the merest rumor they were there, 
 but there are several entries in these few minutes similar to that. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The press clippings kept them informed. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — " The Board visited the mill and held several 
 pleasant conferences with Mr. Simpeon, and he expressed him- 
 self entirely satisfied with the result, and spoke strongly in favor 
 of maintaining the Board of Arbitration, and thinks it will accom- 
 plish much good." 
 
 Page 31, February 13th, 1898. The Secretary reported having 
 called on the Governor, February 11th, to explain certain items in 
 the bill of members of the Board ; said items were the purchase 
 of a book of records and mileage allowance. 
 
 February 28th, 1893, page 33, the Board met at Trenton. I 
 desire the Committee to listen to this. They will see that by ac- 
 cident the other day we guessed what was really a fact in regard 
 to these meetings at Trenton : 
 
 " The matter of urging the passing of the supplement to the 
 Arbitration law was discussed, and it was the unanimous opinion 
 that the best interests of the State required the constant atten- 
 tion and active effort of the entire Board in the endeavor to have 
 the supplement passed during the present legislative session, and 
 for this reason it was decided to have the Board meet at Trenton 
 every Monday and Tuesday until the final adjournment of the 
 Legislature." And they did, and the cost to the State was §160 
 every time they met. That is practically all there is in the 
 minutes. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand Mr. Corbin to say that the 
 minutes have not been kept up since 1893? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The last entry is March 7th, 1893. There are no 
 minutes since that, and no documents sent here to the State 
 House ; no other minutes appear but this book. 
 
 Senator Skirm — They had a Secretary of the Board outside of 
 their Board ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — For which he was paid — what ? 
 
LEWIS D. EOBEESON. 441 
 
 Mr. Corbin — About the same as the rest — from $2,000 to 
 |2,500 a year. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Well, did he do any work 'i 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes ; all these bills were made out by him ; he 
 spent a great many days on the report. The minutes, I may 
 say, are very nicely kept, as far as they extend, but they cover 
 but thirty-four pages of the minute book, and then they cease. 
 
 I desire to call attention to some of the files of the Board, and 
 among otht rs, to a letter dated December 28th, 1893, from the 
 Qnartermaster-G-eneral to the President of the Board, remitting 
 a frank for the year 1894, for the use of the Board, received from 
 the Western Union Telegraph Company. I find, notwithstanding 
 this, several bills for telegrams after that day by the Western 
 Union Telegraph Company, and to one of them particularly I 
 wish to call attention. 
 
 Here is a bill to J. P. McDonnell, Chairman, dated July 1st, 
 1894, from the Manager, at Paterson, with a letter : " Paterson, 
 July 20th, 1894. To J. P. McDonnell, Lakeview, IST. J. Dear 
 Sir : I herewith return the arbitration account, corrected, as you 
 desire. The items now on this account are not covered by the 
 pass which you hold for arbitration business. Kindly have it 
 forwarded for settlement at your early convenience." 
 
 But it is paid by the State all the same, and here is the voucher. 
 And there are two or three others afterwards made out to J. P. 
 McDonnell, President, and paid by the State, although as appears 
 by this letter from the Quartermaster-G-eneral, there was a pass 
 covering all arbitration business. They are not large sums, but 
 I am at a loss to know why they should be in the State's files at 
 all. The vouchers to which I refer are voucher No. 1,708, 
 March, 1894, ot the Western Union Telegraph Company; 
 voucher 4,096, August, 1894, and voucher 1,327, January, 1895. 
 
 Lewis D. Roberson — Sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Frenchtown. 
 
 Q. How long have you lived there? A. Thirty-seven years; 
 that is, I have been away from there three or four years. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Wood turner. 
 
 Q. You were a member of the State Board of Arbitration ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you met with them from time to time? A. Yes, sir; 
 whenever I was called I went. 
 
 Q. Where did you generally meet? A. Wherever I was called 
 by telegram. 
 
442 LEWIS D. EOBERSON. 
 
 Q. And that was at Paterson sometimes? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. And at Jersey City? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Did they ever meet at Frenchtown ? A. No, sir. 
 
 §. Who made out yonr bills against the State? A. I always 
 sent them every week to the Secretary, and he made them out; 
 if I had any days 1 would send them to the Secretary. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I now have a letter to which I refer from 
 from the Quartermaster-General. " Trenton, December 
 28th, 1893. Hon. J. P. McDonnell, Secretary State 
 Board of Arbitration. Dear Sir : Herewith find frank 
 M 165 over the lines of the Western Union Telegraph 
 Company for 1894, sent to this office for transmission. 
 Very respectfully, Richard A. Donnelly, Quartermaster- 
 General." 
 
 I also have a letter from the Private Secretary of 
 Governor Werts, dated February 6th, 1893, addressed 
 to " Col. John W. Romaine, Secretary Board of Arbitra- 
 tion. Dear Sir : Your letter addressed to Governor 
 Werts has been received. He requests me to say that he 
 examined the bills to which you refer, but before taking 
 any further steps in reference to them, desires to have 
 you or some other members of the Board see him with 
 reference to them. Yours very truly. John S. McMas- 
 ters. Private Secretary." 
 
 And later a letter from the Governor himself to John 
 W. Romaine, dated April 18th, 1893 : " My Dear Sir— 
 I have approved the bills of the Board of Mediation 
 and Arbitration at present in my hands. Hereafter I 
 think the bills should be more specific. They should 
 be itemized and verified as other bills are ; there should 
 be an affidavit of the items of hotel bill» incurred; 
 likewise as to railroad fares, so that the bills can be ap- 
 proved for expenses actually incurred. The number of 
 days' service should also be verified. Yours truly, 
 George T. Werts." 
 
 After that the bills were not submitted to the Gover- 
 nor for approval. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Why not? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have this answer to make to that: 
 There is among the files a copy of a letter from the 
 Attorney-General, dated June 5th, 1893, addressed to 
 the Governor, saying in answer to a letter in what 
 causes and when the Board of Arbitration might law- 
 fully act and receive compensation. After advising the 
 
LEWIS D. EOBEESON. 443 
 
 Governor at considerable length, the Attorney-General 
 said this : " I think, therefore, that a proper construc- 
 tion of the act, in order to give it eflect, would be to 
 consider the reference made to the sum of four cents 
 per mile." 
 
 He holds that the sum given to witnesses for mileage 
 would be the most that could be given to these members 
 of the Board. " I return you the bills enclosed, observ- 
 ing that you say that they have been submitted to you 
 for approval. The duty of auditing such accounts is 
 placed by law on the Comptroller, and I do not see why 
 you should be called upon, at least in the first instance, 
 to pass upon accounts of this character. The Comp- 
 troller has power to take evidence, and of course could 
 put them in proper shape. I am, yours truly, John P. 
 Stockton." 
 
 There are other suggestions connected with it, and 
 memorandum attached for the guidance of the Board. 
 I think, therefore. Senator, that the reason that the 
 Governor no longer acted, may be under this advice 
 of the Attorney-General. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Believing that the Comptroller was 
 the proper party to audit the bills ? 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. 
 Q. Who appointed you to be a member of the Board ? A. 
 Governor Abbett. 
 
 Q. Who influenced and obtained the appointment for you ? 
 A. I believe Senator Martin and Senator Cornish. 
 
 Q. Are you a relative of Senator Martin? A. No, sir; no 
 relation whatever. 
 
 Q. Not by kin nor by marriage? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Any business connection with him? A. Well, I rent a 
 house of him, and always have. 
 
 Q. But, aside from that, never had any business with him ? 
 A. Well, store business; 1 always dealt with him. 
 Q. Bought goods at his store ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. But that is all ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Any personal connections of any kind? A. No, sir; only 
 as a friend. 
 
 Q. Where do you work at your trade? A. In Frenchtown. 
 Q. There is a turning mill there, is there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Did you have a pass while you were a member of the 
 Board ? A. No, sir ; I had three passes sent to me, but I sent 
 them back. 
 
444 W. H. MARTIN. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — When was that, that you sent them 
 back? A. This year. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You had no passes betore that? A. 
 Well, I had a pass for a little while on the Pennsylvania, but it 
 was given just for a few months, in the latter part of the season. 
 Mr. Corbin — I am about to call Mr. Martin as a wit- 
 ness, and in view of certain evidence in the possession 
 of the Committee, I ask that this witness retire for a 
 little while, while Senator Martin is under examination, 
 then to be recalled. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Yes ; you will step aside, please, 
 and leave the room. 
 
 W. H. Martin, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Frenchtown. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation? A. General merchant, and 
 president of a bank. 
 
 Q. Your store is at Frenchtown? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you say president of a bank — what bank ? A. Union 
 National Bank. 
 
 Q. Of Frenchtown? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been president of that bank? A. 
 Seven years, about. 
 
 Q. You were a member of the Senate in the years 1892, 1893 
 and 1894? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And previous to that you were a member of the House of 
 Assembly in 1888, 1889 and 1890, were you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is this previous witness, Roberson, a relative of yours ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Neither by kin nor marriage ? A. No, sir ; no way. 
 
 Q. Only personal friends? A. Well, he is a friend of course, 
 or I wouldn't have had him appointed. 
 
 Q. You secured his appointment to the Board, did you? A. 
 I suppose I did ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was he closely related to you in a business way ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Any business relations with him, except some dealing that 
 he dealt at your store? ^1. No, sir; nothing else; he always 
 paid his own bills. 
 
 Q. You were under no obligations to Lim ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Nor him to you ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. In view of questions I am about to ask you, I am going to 
 call your attention to an act recently passed by the Legislature, 
 
W. H. MARTIN. 445 
 
 and in view also of certain evidence that is in my possession. 
 On the 5th of March this year the Legislature passed this law : 
 " In any investigation or inquiry by any joint committee of the 
 Legislature, any standing committee of either House, or any 
 special committee," which this is, " which shall or may be by 
 resolution directed to enter upon such investigation or inquiry, 
 all the witnesses sworn or affirmed before such committee shall 
 truly answer all questions put to them which the committee shall 
 decide to be proper and appertaining to such investigation or 
 inquiry, and no witness shall be excused from answering any 
 such question on the ground that the answer to such question 
 might or would incriminate him, or tend to incriminate him, 
 but no answer made by any witness to any such question shall be 
 used or taken in evidence in any proceeding against him, except 
 in case of criminal proceeding for perjury." Senator Martin, 
 you received from Mr. Boberson certain part of the money which 
 the State paid him for his compensation. Was it a fixed propor- 
 tion of what he got? A. I never got a cent. 
 
 Q. Do you want that answer to stand that way ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 I never got a cent from him. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say that he never turned over any of the 
 funds that he got from the State to you? A. Yes, sir; I do 
 mean to say it. 
 
 Q. You want it to stand at that ? A. 1 understand that I 
 never got a cent from him. 
 
 Q. Did he have an account in your bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Did he deposit checks there? A. Yes, sir; certainly he 
 deposited checks there. 
 
 Q. And you know for a fact, don't you, that he turned over 
 some of the State checks, and that you got them cashed? A. 
 That might be; 1 don't know; I have cashed a great many 
 checks; I couldn't say about that; it might easy be. 
 
 Q. That is, in your bank you cash a great many checks ? A. 
 The bank cashed them ; certainly they do. 
 
 Q. I show you the first check that Mr. Roberson ever got 
 from the State for compensation as a member of the Board, 
 dated January 3d, 1893, for |179.80, endorsed, L. D. Roberson 
 and W. H. Martin. Is that your signature ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That check was cashed at the Trenton Trust and Safe 
 Deposit Company fourteen days after it was drawn, to wit, Janu- 
 ary 17th, 1893. Do you recollect that ? A. No, I don't ; but I 
 see it is my name. 
 
 Q. It was cashed there, wasn't it ? A. Yes, sir ; that is right. 
 
446 W. H. MARTIN. 
 
 Q. I show you the fourth check given to Mr. Roberson by the 
 State for his services, being a check dated May 23d, 1893, 
 endorsed by L. D. Eoberson; is that your endorsement under 
 his? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And cashed through the Amwell National Bank, of Lam- 
 bertville. i)o you remember getting the cash on that? A. I 
 couldn't tell ; I don't remember it, but I know it is my signature ; 
 I know that much. 
 
 Q. I show you the fifth check given to Eoberson for services, 
 dated July 6th, 1893, for $231.95, endorsed by him — and is that 
 your endorsement? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you not get the cash on that check of Schwink, Still- 
 wagen & Company in the city of Philadelphia ? A. Probably I 
 did ; I may have. What date is that ? 
 
 Q. The check is dated July 6th, and you got the money on 
 July 10th, 1893, and did you not hand it to Mr. Stillwagen ? A. 
 I suppose I did. 
 
 5. And ask him to cash it for you? A. I couldn't tell about 
 that. 
 
 Q. Did he not send out and get the money and hand it to you ? 
 A. I couldn't say. 
 
 Q. Did you not at the same time pay out of it a bill which 
 you owed them of something of over a hundred dollars and put 
 the rest in your pocket? A. I wouldn't say; I can't say. 
 
 Q. Don't you remember about getting that check cashed in 
 Philadelphia ? A. No, sir ; I do not, indeed ; my last sickness 
 two years ago — I have forgotten some of those things which oc- 
 curred. 
 
 Q. Your sicknesss affected your memory ? A. Yes, sir, it did; 
 Mr. Martin there can tell you, I guess ; he was up to see me 
 about that part of it. 
 
 Q. I show you a check of November 8th, 1893, to the order of 
 L. D. Roberson, for |86.23, being one of the State's checks to 
 him for compensation ; is that your endorsement under his ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And wasn't that cashed through your own bank in French- 
 town? ^1. Yes, sir; it must have beeu. 
 
 Q. Roberson kept an account in your bank ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And was accustomed to deposit checks there, was he not? 
 A. Yes, sir; he might have come in to me, and before the bank 
 was open, or something ; I wouldn't say. 
 
 Q. Look at these other checks which I show you, and tell me 
 whether they were not deposited by him or cashed by him 
 
W. H. MARTIN. 447 
 
 through your bank— April 25th, 1893, check for $542.80 ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; I suppose credited or cashed. 
 
 Q. Well, which; can you tell by the stamps endorsed upon it 
 whether it was cashed at your bank or credited to his account 
 there? A. I don't think I can; you see you take a check in 
 there and draw $100 on it, or part, and credit the balance. 
 
 Q. Mr. Roberson is your friend? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And your neighbor ? A. Why, certainly. 
 
 Q. And keeps an account, you say, in your bank ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you are the President of the bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And aren't you able to tell me, by this endorsement, which 
 your bank put upon it, whether he deposited it in the account or 
 cashed it? A. 1 couldn't tell; I suppose it was deposited; it 
 looks so to me ; I am not in the bank a great deal ; they do the 
 business. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Does that check bear the en- 
 dorsement ot Senator Martin ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir ; not that one. 
 
 Q. I show you another check, July 25th, 1893, $14.64, with 
 the stamp of your bank. Can you tell whether that was cashed 
 or deposited ? A. It is just the same as the other. 
 
 Q. I am asking you? A. I couldn't tell; it looks to me so. 
 
 Q. You can't tell ? A. It looks to me as if it was deposited 
 there. 
 
 Q. Do you know G. J. Fisher ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is he present here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where does he live? A. He lives in Lambertville. 
 
 Q. I show you check of September 12th, 1893, for $254.67, 
 endorsed in the same manner. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Also one dated October 10th, 1893, endorsed in the same 
 manner. Can you say as to that? A. I suppose it is the same 
 as the rest. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say with regard to any of them whether 
 they were cashed or whether they were deposited ? A. ISTo ; I 
 would suppose they were deposited ; of course I haven't looked 
 into the matter at all. 
 
 Q. I show you, also, with similar endorsement, check dated 
 December 19th, 1893, for $233.12 ; also one with similar endorse- 
 ment, dated February 6th, 1894, for $197.31 ; also one dated 
 March 27th, 1894, for $286.46 ; also one dated May 17th, 1894, 
 with similar endorsement, for $337.78 ; also one dated June 12th, 
 1894, with same endorsement, for $305.91; also one with similar 
 endorsement, dated July 3d, 1894, for $234.03 ; also one 
 dated July 31st, 1894, same endorsement, for, $212.61 ; 
 
448 W. H. MAKTIN. 
 
 also one dated September 4th, 1894, similarly endorsed, for 
 1147.05 ; also, one dated October 2d, 1894, similarly endorsed, for 
 $247.88; also, one dated November 7th, 1894, similarly endorsed, 
 for $362.02; also, one dated December 11th, 1894, similarly 
 endorsed, for $224.75; also, one dated January 10th, 1895, simi- 
 larly endorsed, for $247.13; also, one dated February 12th, 1895, 
 similarly endorsed, for $178.55. Have you any recollection about 
 these checks which you endorsed 1 A. 1 haven't, indeed. 
 
 Q. You didn't remember, then, until I now drew it to your 
 attention, the fact that you had received four of these checks ? A. 
 Wo, I didn't. 
 
 Q. You didn't remember; don't you remember now the fact 
 of getting one cashed in Philadelphia? A. I do not. 
 
 Q. Don't you remember now ? ^4. If I did I used it to pay a 
 bill with ; that is all I know about it. 
 
 Q. Don't you remember now getting one of them cashed at 
 the Trust Company here in Trenton? A. No. 
 
 Q. Don't you remember getting one cashed in Lambertville ? 
 A. I can't remember; it might have been; it was so, of course. 
 
 Q. And do you not remember getting some cashed at your own 
 bank? A. I do not. 
 
 Q. And do you remember to have ever seen any of these checks 
 before? A. I must have seen them. 
 
 Q. Do you remember it? A. Well, I think I have. 
 
 Q. Didn't you know that these cheeks were being paid through 
 your bank? A. Yes, I knew he had an account there, certainly. 
 
 Q. Well, and you knew that he was receiving compensation 
 every month or two from the State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you saw some of these checks ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you remember them? A. Well, I suppose I did; I 
 think I asked him sometimes how much the bill was, or some- 
 thing of that kind, going along, how much his account was. 
 
 Q. Your store is general mercantile business ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you keep a bank account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You buy goods, do you not, of the firm of Schwink, Still- 
 wagen & Co., in Philadelphia. A. I have ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Dealers in cashmeies? A. Cloths, &c. 
 
 Q. Don't you, as a business man, pay your bills by checks ? A 
 Generally, sometimes one way, not always; just as it happens. 
 
 Q. Can you tell how it happened that you took a check of two 
 or three times as much as your bill to Philadelphia, the check of 
 another person, and asked that merchant to cash it and apply part 
 of it on his bill and give you the rest in cash? A. I can't tell 
 
W. H. MARTIN. 449 
 
 «xactly, without I gave him the cash for it before I left home ; he 
 might have been going away. 
 
 Q. Suppose it is so ; isn't your business conducted so that in 
 paying a bill to a merchant in Philadelphia you would give him 
 a check? A. I would sometimes, and sometimes if I got a chock 
 in my pocket I would give him another check; for instance, if I 
 cashed your check to-day, and I was going to Philadelphia, I 
 would take it and pay a bill with it. 
 
 Q. And the Monday you did go to Philadelphia, on January 
 10th, which was four days after the check was drawn, you 
 turned over to that firm a check for $231.95, and asked them to 
 get the money for you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Can't you remember that? A. No, sir; it was on Mon- 
 day, too ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. I don't remember it. 
 
 Q. So that you must have got that on Saturday, probably? A. 
 I may have ; I can't remember it ; of course, it might have easily 
 been. 
 
 Q. You have no recollection about it? A. Wo, sir; I often 
 cash checks for him, or anybody else, sometimes, and sometimes 
 I have money and sometimes I wouldn't. 
 
 Q. Suppose he brought it to you Sunday, or Saturday night, 
 would you have that amount of money in your pocket? A. 
 Sometimes. 
 
 Q. Not regularly? A. I often have had. 
 
 Q. Wouldn't you, naturally, if you were cashing that check, 
 cash it out of the till of your bank? A. Well, I would if I was 
 in the bank. 
 
 Q. How far is the bank from the store? A. It is about three 
 hundred yards, I suppose. 
 
 Q. You go the bank every day ? A. Well, not always ; no. 
 
 Q. You are president ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You attend to its business, discounting, &c. ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; I am one of the committee. 
 
 Q. Well, you are master of the bank ? A. Generally. 
 
 Q. Has there ever been a time when you were not? A, Well, 
 -the cashier does just as much discounting, &c., as I do. 
 
 Q. Can you tell me how you should have cashed a check at 
 another bank down in Lambertville instead of taking it home 
 and getting it through yours 2 A. 1 can't say ; circumstances 
 might alter cases. 
 
 Q. How did you come by these checks? A. I suppose I cashed 
 them ; that is all I know. 
 
 29 SH 
 
450 W. H. MABTIN. 
 
 Q. Haven't you any memory about it? A. 1 don't know ; I 
 often cash a check, and give a man my check for a balance or 
 something ; for instance, he comes in and wants some money ; if 
 I have it, I generally give it to him. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did you do it in this case ? A. 
 I don't know ; all I know is this ; all I do know is I never re- 
 ceived one cent from him in any way or shape whatever for the 
 office. 
 
 Q. Here is a check, being the one paid by the State to Rober- 
 son, dated February 28th, 1893 — that was while you were still 
 down here at the Senate — for |189.90, which Roberson got 
 cashed at the Mechanics Bank, at which it was drawn. Do you 
 know about that check? A. No; I don't know anything about 
 it. 
 
 Q. Do you know how Roberson happened to be down here? 
 A. No. 
 
 Q. You saw him here Monday nights, I suppose? A. Some- 
 times ; I couldn't say. 
 
 Q. I show you Roberson's third check, dated April 25th, 1893,^ 
 which was after the Legislature adjourned, for |542.80, put 
 through your bank. Do you recollect that check ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you give him the money on it ? A. Did I give him 
 the money on it ? no, sir ; I don't think so ; I never pay out any 
 money out of the bank. 
 
 Q. Have you any memory about that check ? A. No, sir, I 
 haven't. 
 
 Q. Well, now, you have been talking about this matter here 
 for half an hour; you have seen these checks and these endorse- 
 ments. Has nothing that has occurred refreshed your memory 
 about how these checks came into your possession ? A. No, sir ; 
 I can't think of anything about it, only it is I have had them, of 
 course, I know my signature. 
 
 Q. When did Roberson open his account in your bank ? A. 
 I couldn't tell you that even ; I don't know. 
 
 Q. Did he ever have one there before he was appointed to the 
 
 Board of Arbitration ? A. Well, I couldn't say ; I think he had 
 
 .a little — probably in a diflerent way; not a regular bank account, 
 
 Q. la he a man of property aside from his wages ? A. He had 
 some money that was lent out in different ways. 
 
 Q. But he had no regular bank account? A. I don't think 
 so ; not that I know of. 
 
 Q. His account was opened after he became an arbitrator? 
 A. I suppose so, as far as I know. 
 
a. J. FISHER. 451 
 
 G. J. Fisher, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Lambertville. 
 
 Q. What is your business ? A. Merchant. 
 
 Q. Do you know L. D. Roberson 2 A. 1 do. 
 
 Q. Your business is conducted in Lambertville? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What transactions have you had with Roberson ? A. 
 Nothing, only to be social — friendship. 
 
 Q. How long have you known him ? A. Fifteen years. 
 
 Q. Do you know Mr. Martin ? ^. I do. 
 
 Q. How long have you known him ? A. Well, I should think 
 about the same length of time. 
 
 Q. I show you a check of the State dated August 8th, 1893, to 
 the order of L. D. Roberson, for $98.18, endorsed by Roberson. 
 Is that your endorsement also ? A. It is. 
 
 Q. How did you come to get that check ? A. Cashed it for 
 him for accommodation. 
 
 Q. You recollect it, do you ? J.. I do. 
 
 Q. Is that the only one you ever cashed for him ? A. That 
 is the only one I remember of. 
 
 Q. You remember this ? J.. I do. 
 
 Q. How came he to want you to cash it ? A. He happened in 
 my place of business on a visit socially. 
 
 Q. Where did he come from, Trenton or Frenchtown ? A. 
 That I couldn't tell you, where he came from. 
 
 Q. Do you remember what day of the week it was ? A. 1 do 
 not. 
 
 Q. What passed at the interview ? A. Well, nothing in con- 
 nection with the check whatever. 
 
 Q. He wanted you to cash the check? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you remember that it was a social visit? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long did he stay ? A. Well, I don't think he stayed 
 over half an hour, three-quarters ; something like that, waiting 
 from one train to the next, I think. 
 
 Q. And asked you for the money? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did he do with the money ? A. That I can't tell 
 you ; ho put it in his own possession. 
 
 Q. He put it in his pocket ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was that the oilly instance in which that occurred ? A . 
 Yes, sir ; it is the only one I remember about ; there might have 
 been other checks. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — How do you remember this particular 
 case, then, if there may be others ? A. It seemed to me some- 
 thing unusual for him to come in and get a check cashed — my 
 
452 G. J. FISHER. 
 
 bookkeeper was there, and I think she handed out the money 
 for him. 
 
 Q. You were a little surprised at it yourself, were you; it 
 wasn't a usual thing ? A. It wasn't a usual thing. 
 
 Q. Do you remember the amount; it was about $98? A. I 
 remember the check, the circumstance ; I don't remember the 
 amount. 
 
 Q. It is a matter of a hundred dollars ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It is as you remember it, is it, the check is ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. N"ow, I show you another one, dated August 9th, 1894, 
 State check, to the order of L. D. Eoberson, endorsed by him; 
 is that your endorsement? A. It is. 
 
 Q. How came you to endorse that check? A. In the same 
 manner. 
 
 Q. And there was another instance, then? A. Well, as I 
 stated before, there might have been others, but I didn't remem- 
 ber it. 
 
 (J. You don't remember it now, then? A. The endorsement 
 speaks for itself. 
 
 Q. It simply speaks for being the endorsement, not for any- 
 thing more. Do you remember what you did with the check? 
 A. Deposited it in the bank. 
 
 Q. What bank? A. The Amwell. 
 
 Q. This bank in your town? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you cash that check ? A. Cashed it. 
 
 Q. Did he call on a social visit that time ? A . Yes, sir ; he did. 
 
 Q. From one train to another ? A. Yes, he did. 
 
 Q. You remember twice now? A. I don't remember, but he 
 occasionally stopped off from one train to the next and called in 
 to see me. 
 
 Q. Was there a third time when you cashed one ? J.. I don't 
 remember. 
 
 Q. A fourth? A. I don't remember ; I don't think there was 
 but the two ; I don't remember any more. 
 
 Q. Had he 'ever asked you to cash anything for him before ? 
 A. He had not. 
 
 Q. How did it occur, now, what was the reason of it ? A. 
 Well, that I can't tell, what his motive was. 
 
 Q. But he stopped off of the train twice on the way from 
 Trenton to Frenchtown ? A. Where he had been I don't know. 
 
 Q. You said that? A. That he stopped off of the train; I 
 don't know where he was going to. 
 
 Q. Was he going north or south ? -4. I don't know whether 
 he was going to Frenchtown or Loudon. 
 
PRINTING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 453 
 
 Q. If you observed as much as to see that he stopped ofi from 
 one train to another, can't you say whether he stopped off of one 
 north bound train to another? A. I can't; he merely told me 
 he was waiting for a train. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What time of the day was it? 
 A. I don't recollect. 
 
 Q. Did he tell you both times that he was waiting for a train ? 
 A. He did. 
 
 Q. Did he give you any reason why he should ask to have 
 these checks cashed in Lambertville instead of going on to 
 Frenchtown with them? A. He did not. 
 
 Q. Do you know any reason ? A. No, sir ; I do not. 
 Q. Have you ever talked the matter over with him since ? A. 
 I have not. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I summoned Mr. Otto H. Heinz to be 
 here to-day, and be is here. I summoned him to bring 
 certain check books and checks which they have here, 
 but by some means they was omitted from the sub- 
 poena a call for the cash book, journal and ledger, which 
 we also want produced of Mr. Heiuz and the Heinz 
 Printing Company, which succeeded to his business, and 
 and 1 would like, if it can be done — we cannot examine 
 Mr. Heinz for two or three hours yet any way — Mr. 
 Heinz to telephone to Newark and have them brought 
 up ; the Committee will bear the expeuse. It was in- 
 tended to have put that in the subpoena, but it was 
 omitted, and I telegraphed last night to have them 
 brought, but for some reason the telegram miscarried. 
 Mr. McDefmitt — We have got every book here the 
 subpoena calls for, and we are perfectly willing to pro- 
 duce any book in our power to produce that the Com- 
 mittee desire. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — We would like to have the cash book, 
 the day book, the ledger and journal of this printing 
 business from 1890 to 1894, in whatever name they 
 were conducted. K that can be done by telegraphing 
 to a clerk to come down in a later train it would save 
 these gentlemen coming here another day. 
 
 Mr. Heinz — I don't think it can be done, because I 
 have failed to find several of those cash books ; I have 
 several stub books here, but as the old firm was dis- 
 solved — 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is not what I am talking about ; 
 it is the cash book that we want. 
 
454 PRINTING PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 
 
 Mr. Heinz — I can't tell where that is ; the old con- 
 cern is dissolved. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — How about the new concern ? 
 Mr. Heinz — Yes ; we have that. 
 Senator Skirm — Covering that time ? 
 Mr. Heinz — From February, 1893, to the present day. 
 Senator Skirm — Where is the cash book before that 
 time? 
 
 Mr. Heinz — I don't know. 
 
 Senator Skirm — You have not destroyed the books ? 
 Mr. Heinz — No. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This new company was formed in the 
 early part of 1893. Have you got the journal ? 
 Mr. Heinz — I don't know. 
 Mr. Corbin — Ledger? 
 Mr. Heinz — I suppose so. 
 Mr. Corbin — And day book? 
 Mr. Heinz — Yes, sir. 
 Mr. Corbin — And order book? 
 Mr. Heinz — Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Well, now, those books of the present 
 company you can have here? 
 Mr. Heinz — Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— Just before the Heinz Litho. Printing 
 Company — you have those ? 
 Mr. Heinz — I don't know. 
 Mr. Corbin — Why not? 
 Mr. Heinz — The firm was dissolved. 
 Mr. Corbin — But you were master of the situation? 
 Mr. Heinz — I wasn't the only stockholder in the 
 concern. 
 
 Chairman Voorheee — Didn't the books run right 
 straight along? 
 
 Mr. Heinz — Wo, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — You have destroyed all record of the 
 books prior, or mislaid them ? 
 
 Mr. Heinz — Whatever can be found will be produced. 
 Mr. Corbin — Just telephone, and produce those of the 
 Heinz Litho. and Printing Company, will you? 
 Mr. Heinz — Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — And also instruct them to bring those 
 of the former company. 
 
 Mr. Heinz — Whatever they have; yes, sir. 
 
LEWIS D. EOBBESON. 455 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, the first part of your dealing with 
 the State, you were doing business in your own name ? 
 
 Mr. Heinz — Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — You have got your own books ? 
 
 Mr. Heinz — That is so many years ago. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is only back to 1891. 
 
 Mr. Heinz — I will do the best I can to get them here ; 
 there are a great many books. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I suppose it will take four books, and 
 it would not take a very large express wagon either. 
 
 Mr. McDermitt — It is a very large business, I can tell 
 you that, or I wouldn't be counsel for it. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I suggest that counsel to a large 
 business ought to instruct the company to bring their 
 books. 
 
 Mr. McDermitt — We will get what Mr. Corbin desires, 
 if we can. 
 
 L. D. RoBERSON, recalled. 
 Examined by Mk. Corbin. 
 
 Q. In view of certain questions I am going to ask you, and 
 ■certain information in my possession, I am going to read you a 
 law recently passed by the Legislature. On the 5th of Marchr 
 this year the Legislature passed this law: 
 
 " In any investigation or inquiry by any joint com- 
 mittee of the Legislature, any standing committee of 
 either House, or any special committee, which shall or 
 may be by resolution directed to enter upon such inves- 
 tigation or inquiry, all the witnesses sworn or affirmed 
 before such committee, shall truly answer all questions 
 put to them which the committee shall decide to be 
 proper and appertaining to such investig tion or in- 
 quiry, and no witness shall be excused from answering 
 any such question, on the ground that the answer to such 
 question might or would incriminate him, or tend to 
 incriminate him, but no answer made by any witness to 
 any such question shall be used or taken in evidence in 
 any proceeding against him, except in case of criminal 
 proceeding for perjury." 
 Q. Mr. Roberson, you have testified that your appointment 
 was secured, you supposed, by Senator Martin ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You turned over to Senator Martin certain of the moneys 
 which you received from the State as your compensation ? A. 
 1^0, sir ; never a cent. 
 
456 LEWIS D. ROBEESON. 
 
 Q. Did you turn over any certain portion of it? A. N"o, sir; 
 not a cent. 
 
 Q. JSTot too hasty, now? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Here is the first check that you ever got from the State ; is 
 that your endorsement ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, Senator Martin says that that is his? Q. Yes, it is so.- 
 
 Q. And he got it cashed at Trenton here ? A. Yes, sir ; I bor- 
 rowed money of him and I gave him my check and he gave me 
 his check to get it cashed in Trenton. 
 
 Q. How did you borrow money of him? A. I often do when 
 I have to go away in the morning when the bank isn't open. 
 
 Q. In January, 1893, you got that check for |179.80? A^ 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you give it to him for ? A. To get the money 
 so I could go away on the train with it in the morning ; he ad- 
 vanced me money and I gave him the check to get cashed in 
 Trenton. 
 
 Q. How much money did you need to go away 2 A. I often 
 took $25. 
 
 Q. You are speaking now of this particular transaction? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you turn it over to him the same day you got it ? A. 
 I wouldn't be positive about that ; no. 
 
 Q. You went away in the morning, you say ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Tuesday morning ? J.. I don't know whether it was 
 Tuesday morning, or what it was; I can't tell exactly what 
 morning it was. 
 
 Q. You handed it over to him ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long had you had it? A. 1 don't know; I couldn't 
 remember. 
 
 Q. You remember one thing pretty clearly ; do you remem- 
 ber when you got it — on what day? A. No. 
 
 Q. Can you fix the time when you got it by the day of the 
 week or anything else? A. I most generally got them on Wed- 
 nesday or Thursday. 
 
 Q. I wasn't asking about most generally; I have only showed 
 you one check; you say you remember he advanced you some 
 money on that check when you were in a hurry to go away? A, 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much money did he advance you? A. That I can't 
 tell exactly. 
 
 Q. Did he cash the whole check? A. I think he ffave me 
 part money and part check for it. 
 
LEWIS D. ROBERSON. 457 
 
 Q. What (lid you do with the check ? A. Deposited it in the 
 bank. 
 
 Q. Did you have a bank account with his bank ? A. With 
 the Frenchtown bank ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When did you open that? A. Well, I have had certificates 
 there — 
 
 Q. No — I asked you when you opened your bank account 
 there? A. 1891, 1 think. 
 
 Q. Two years before you were appointed to this Board? A. 
 1891, I think it was. 
 
 Q. Have you got your bank book here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Check book and checks ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who gave you this check? A. It was sent to me from 
 Heppenheimer. 
 
 Q. To Frenchtown ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long did you carry it in your pocket before Senator 
 Martin advanced the money ? A. That I don't really know. 
 
 Q. Where did you give it to Senator Martin to give you some 
 money on it? A. Right in his store. 
 
 Q. And how much did he give you 1 A. 1 can't tell you the 
 amount, but I can tell you what I deposited in the bank. 
 
 Q. Didn't you tell us a few minutes ago that he advanced you 
 the money so that you could get home? A. That is so I could 
 go away. 
 
 Q. Didn't you say get home from Trenton a few minutes ago ? 
 A. No, sir; I didn't give it to him in Trenton; I don't know 
 that I ever gave him a check in Trenton. 
 
 Q. You remember something pretty distinctly about this. Let 
 us get it all. Now, you say you gave him that in his store to get 
 some money to go away ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you think he gave you some money and a check 1 A. 1 
 think he did. 
 
 Q. How much money? A. Well, I can't exactly tell, because 
 I never remember how much ; I used to get ten dollars of him, 
 and sometimes fifteen. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you step up to the bank and get it cashed? A. 
 Because the bank wasn't open when I was there. 
 
 Q. Too early ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How early in the morning was it? A. Before train time. 
 
 Q. What was train time ? A. Eight o'clock. 
 
 Q. Where were you bound for? A. I don't know whether I 
 was going to Jersey City or where. 
 
 Q. You only know there is a train leaves Frenchtown at eight 
 o'clock? A. Yes, sir. 
 
458 LEWIS D. EOBEESON. 
 
 Q. Did you get ten dolIarB, or fifty 1 A. \ never got fifty, I 
 don't think. 
 
 Q. How much check did you get? A. Look in the check 
 book; I don't know what it was. 
 
 Q. Is that your way of doing business? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Didn't deposit your checks in the bank? A. I did all but 
 three or four ; I think he had two or three, I gave him, or three 
 or four. 
 
 Q. This first one, you remember about this first one? A. I 
 don't remember exactly about the first one. 
 
 Q. You haven't seen any other but that yet? A. He had two 
 or three. 
 
 <2. And you reeoUect in that case you wanted to get the eight 
 o'clock train, and got some money ? A. That is often, when I 
 had to go away I would go there and get money. 
 
 Q. You started out by saying that you had borrowed money 
 of him and were paying the money. "When did you borrow it ? 
 A. "Whenever I couldn't get in the bank. 
 
 Q. How much did you borrow for which you gave him this 
 check? A. That I can't exactly tell. 
 
 §. How much would you borrow at a time ? A. "Well, I bor- 
 rowed from |10 on up. 
 
 Q. On up how high 'i A. \ don't think I ever got over $25 of 
 him, as I know of. 
 
 Q. That was a matter that you would return in a few days ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How many times did you? A. 1 must have given him 
 three or four or four or five checks that way. 
 
 Q. How many times did you borrow $10 or $25 from Senator 
 Martin ? A. K. good many times; I never gave him checks for 
 that. 
 
 Examined by Senator Voorhees. 
 
 Q. "What was your practice in those other cases ; did you give 
 him a memorandum, an "I O U"? A. I would borrow that 
 money and he would put it down against me. 
 
 Q. On your book ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You had your book account there ? A. Yes, sir ; I bought 
 my groceries there — everything put in. 
 
 Q- If you had a little money from him, that went on your 
 account? A. IvTo, that was a cash account; I always paid that 
 back during the week. 
 
 Q. "Why didn't you do that this morning when you went away, 
 just in that usual way ; I mean in January, 1893 ; why didn't 
 
IjKwis d. roberson. 459 
 
 you do it on this particular morning when thiB check was given, 
 as you say ; why didn't you just simply say, " I am short ; I want 
 ten dollars, or fifteen dollars ; let me have it, and I will pay it 
 back to you during the week "? A. Well, he was Senator here, 
 and I thought he was coming to Trenton and could get it cashed 
 on this bank. 
 
 Q. Bat then you deposited those checks on this bank in 
 Frenchtown ; what was the necessity of sending away down here ? 
 A. The first two I got cashed here in Trenton, I think. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you just let that amount be entered in the 
 books, as all the other amounts were that you borrowed ; why 
 did you make this difl'erence at that time ? ^4. I don't remember 
 now, only because he was coming to Trenton, or something of 
 that kind, and he could get it cashed right here. 
 
 Examined by Mk. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You say the first two or three checks you got cashed here? 
 A. I say one or two. 
 
 Q. That is the first check which you say you gave him at 
 Frenchtown ; which will you have it ? A. That I got at French- 
 town ? 
 
 Q. There is the check. A. I say I got one or two checks 
 cashed in Trenton myself. 
 
 Q. You said you got the first two checks cashed in Trenton. 
 A. I don't know about the first two, but I got the first checks — 
 
 §. If you will just confine yourself to the question we have 
 under consideration, which is the one check for $179, dated 
 January 3d, 1893, which I have told you is the first check — you 
 first say that you gave that to him to pay something which you 
 borrowed of him. Next you have said that that was cashed by 
 him partly in money and partly by his check. Now you suggest 
 that you got this check cashed in Trenton. Which is right ? A. 
 (No answer.) 
 
 §. (By Senator Voorhees) — Do you recall ? A. No, sir ; I 
 think I gave him that check in his store ; that is all I can re- 
 member about it. 
 
 <^. When he drew you a check back again for part of it, did 
 he draw it, or his clerk? A. He drawed it. 
 
 Q. Personally ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Can you remember the sum? A. I cannot; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Can you remember what you did with it? A. \ deposited 
 it in the bank — Frenchtown Bank. 
 
 §. When? A. I think two or three days afterwards — after I 
 received it of him. 
 
460 LEWIS D. EOBERSON. 
 
 Q. Would your stub book show where you deposited it? A. 
 I haven't any stub book of that; my bank book shows it. 
 
 Q. Let us see your bank book. You deposited it in the bank 
 two or three days afterwards, did you 1 A. 1 think it was ; I 
 wouldn't be right positive about it. 
 
 Q. This is the pass book which the bank gives you ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Your first deposit is November 18th, 1892, $50. The next 
 one is December 17th, $150. Those are both months before this 
 time; it couldn't be this? A. ISo. 
 
 Q. Your next deposit is March Ist, 1893, $225. It couldn't be 
 that? A. Well, I don't know whether it could be that or not, 
 because I had other money. 
 
 Q. How could it be that when the check is oaly $179 ? A. 
 Can't I have other money to put in with it ? 
 
 Q. I don't know. You say you deposited it two or three days 
 afterwards, and the first date you show me is two months after 
 March 1st. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I guess, Mr. Roberson, you will 
 have to shift a little on that. 
 
 Q. You dido't deposit his check in the bank, did you ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Two or three days after you got it ? A. 1 think it was two 
 or three days after. 
 
 Q. It was for part of that check ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "What bank did you deposit it in ? A. Frenchtown 
 National Bank. 
 
 Q. See if you cau find it in your pass-book "i A. 1 don't know 
 whether it was exactly that one, because I had other money that 
 I put in. 
 
 Q. It isn't there, is it ? ^. I don't see it there. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It would have been there if it 
 had been deposited, wouldn't it ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The book is balanced here. 
 Chairman Voorhees — Country banks sometimes make 
 mistakes. 
 
 Q. Let us see checks and stub book. A. There is all the 
 checks from the stub book. 
 
 Q. This stub book begins May Slst, 1894. Where is the pre- 
 vious one ? A. That is all I ever had. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. How did you get your money out of the bank ? A.I had 
 certificates in there and drawed it on the certificates. 
 
LEWIS D. EOBKESON. 461 
 
 Q. You didn't have certificates while you had that book ? A. 
 I had certificates, and then I got this book. 
 
 Q. You hadn't any certificates when you had this book? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, the question is, where is your check book which you 
 checked that money out with during the time that the certificate 
 was running? A. I always took them to the bank and drawed 
 it from the bank. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Curbin. 
 
 Q. Then the stub book begins there after you opened that 
 account. How did you get the money out in the meantime ? 
 A. I had other checks. 
 
 Q. Where are they ? A. I haven't got them. 
 
 Q. What has become of your previous checks ? Here is 
 December, 1892. Mr. Roberson, this pass book which you show 
 me was closed up before this stub book begins ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, where are the vouchers for the money that yon drew 
 out ? A. Never had any. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say that the bank paid money out without 
 getting anything for it ? A. When I put in a check I would 
 draw so much out, and they would give nie credit for it. 
 
 Q. You have made a good many deposits there. Let us see 
 your next pass book. I show you the second check you got from 
 the State, February 28th, 1893, for $189.90. How did you get 
 the money on that ? A. Well, I couldn't tell you whether I 
 drawed it here or where. 
 
 Q. Look at the back ? A. It is my writing ; I got one cashed 
 in Trenton — or two — and the rest of them in Frenchtown. 
 
 Q. You got that cashed right at the counter of the Mechanics 
 Bank, didn't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember it? A. I remember getting one cashed 
 there. 
 
 Q. Who went with you to identify you? A. A gentleman 
 from Sinclair, West & Co., clothing store. 
 
 Q. Is that the only one you ever got cashed at the counter ? 
 A. I think it was, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you the third one, dated April 25th, 1893, for 
 $542.80. What did you do with that? That is the biggest one 
 you ever got. A. Yes, sir ; I got that cashed at the French- 
 town National bank. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you deposit it? A. 1 think I did. 
 
 Q. No; you may have deposited part of it. A. The biggest 
 
462 LEWIS D. KOBERSON. 
 
 part of it I deposited; I deposited four hundred and somethiag 
 of it, I think. 
 
 Q_ Yes— $475. A. Something like that. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you deposit the check? A. Because I wanted 
 to use some money; I never deposited all the checks, that I know 
 of — but one or two. 
 
 Q. Couldn't you draw a check for the money you wanted ? A. 
 Sometimes I did. 
 
 Q. There must be some system of banking up there that we 
 don't know about. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think the witness may have 
 taken a check in of $500 and say, give me three hundred, 
 and they would do it, and he could deposit the rest; 
 that is the way it is done sometimes. 
 
 A. That is the way they always do it with us up there. 
 
 Q. Tou must have drawn some memorandum check for the 
 bank. A. No, sir ; they always gave me a memorandum of this 
 on the slip of the check, and memorandum of what I drawed 
 out ; if I draw out $70 they give me credit for a hundred. 
 
 Q. Now, on May 23d, 1893, you got a check for $99.35. 
 "Where did you draw that? A. That may be one that I gave 
 Martin to draw, and got the money of him. 
 
 Q. I guess that is one you gave Martin ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. His name is on the back. Where did you hand that to 
 Martin? A. I think I handed it to bim in the store, because I 
 never done anything anywhere else with him that I know of. 
 
 Q. Did you hand him one down at Lambertville ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you ? A. No, sir ; I don't think I have ever been 
 in Lambertville with him. 
 
 Q. That was cashed in Lambertville? A. That might be, but 
 I never handed it to him there. 
 
 Q. You handed it to him, you think, in his own store? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did he give you for it? A. I don't know whether 
 he gave me money or a check for it ; maybe he took my rent 
 out of it for two or three months, or something like that. 
 
 Q. Here was your bank account. Why didn't you go to the 
 bank ? A. Often times I couldn't get in the bank ; if I got these 
 checks at night I couldn't get them cashed until the next day at 
 nine o'clock. 
 
 Q. Were you never at Lambertville with Mr. Martin? A. I 
 don't know as I ever was. It seems to me I was there with him 
 one afternoon, too. 
 
LEWIS D. ROBERSON. 463 
 
 Q. Did you give him a check down there? A. I don't thiuk 
 I did. 
 
 Q. Can you explain why that was cashed through the 
 Lambertville bank ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You didn't deposit any of that money at all. There is no 
 deposit on your book until July. A. $99? 
 
 Q. Yes. What did you do with that? A. I can't tell you 
 whether I paid him rent out of it, or store bill, or what. 
 
 Q. You were working during this time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where ? A. Shurtz spoke mill. 
 
 Q. Regularly employed there as a turner ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have been for several years? A. No, sir; I have worked 
 for the firm for fifteen years; they discharged me and I got 
 another job. 
 
 Q. When did you leave there ? A. About last July. 
 
 Q. Since that you have been working steadily? A. Almost 
 every day, for Kerr & Taylor, sash and blind makers. 
 
 Q. Well, the last three or four years you have been working 
 regularly right along ? A. Only when I was out. 
 
 Q. Excepting the days you were out on arbitration business ? 
 
 A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you the next check, dated July 6th, 1893, $231.95. 
 How came you to give that to Mr. Martin? A. The only way I 
 ever gave him that check was on account of stufl I bought, or 
 rent, or else got money out of him ; that is the only way I can 
 explain it. 
 
 Q. How much was your rent? A. Seven dollars a month. 
 
 Q. You would hardly turn him over a check for $231 for that, 
 would you ? A. I have owed him as high as fifty or sixty dollars. 
 
 Q. That is for your store bill and rent and all? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember anything about that ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have money from any other sources to deposit in 
 the bank, except from the State ? A. Often I put money in, yes, 
 besides getting it from the State. 
 
 Q. I say any other money besides that that came from the 
 State ? A. Yes, sir, I have. 
 
 Q. There is one with Fisher's name on the back of it. How 
 came you to give that one to Fisher? A. G. J. Fisher, Lam- 
 bertville. I was sent to Lambertville on business, and he was 
 going to the bank, and I asked him if he would just cash me a 
 check, and he said he would, and I got him to cash it. 
 
 Q. What did you do with that? A. I spent some of it, and 
 some of it I took back, and I think I deposited some of it. 
 
464 LEWIS D. ROBEESON. 
 
 Q. No ; no deposit of it as far as your books show ? A. 1 
 spent some of it before I went back; I know that much. 
 
 Q. What did you do with that one, $254.67, September 12th, 
 1893 ? A. Must have deposited part of it. 
 
 Q. Yes, I guess you did that. Why did you never deposit any 
 one of these checks? A. The whole business? 
 
 Q. Yes? A. Because I always took some of the money out 
 to go away with ; it cost money to go away. 
 
 Q. You sometimes deposited more than the check? A. Well, 
 then I wasn't in need of it. 
 
 y. But you never deposited a single check, did you? A. 
 Yee, sir. 
 
 Q. Not one straight full amount of the check? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Which one was that? A. I know there is one on there, 
 anyway, that I know of; that I have recollections of. 
 
 Q. Therf; is one. You are right. No; you are not, either. 
 This one is $286.46, and you deposited — no, you didn't deposit 
 that one at all? A. You will come across it yet. 
 
 Q. Here is one, November 8, 1893, $86.27. Why did you give 
 that to Martin? A. Well, I don't know any reason, but — 
 
 Q. You don't know any reason for giving it to. Martin? A. 
 Only if I wanted money, and he was close by, right across the 
 street, and 1 went and got the money. 
 
 Q. Do you remember getting more than one cashed by Fisher ? 
 A. I think that was all; there might have been two, but I don't 
 think there was. 
 
 Q. Look at that one, dated January 9, 1894, for $73.08. Wasn't 
 that cashed by Fisher? A. Yes, sir; but I didn't remember 
 that one ; I remember one very distinctly. 
 
 Q. I show you the check of March 18, 1894, for $158.30, with 
 the endorsement of Richard Evans. What did you do with that 
 check? A. I used some of it, and put the balance in the bank. 
 
 Q. Who is Richard Evans? A. He is in Paterson; I had to 
 have money, and I got to have it right away, and he was the only 
 man I knowed, and it was at night, and I had to stay over night, 
 and so 1 got it cashed. 
 
 Q. These books show that your money, substantially what there 
 is left of it here, is in the Union National Bank of Frenchtown, 
 do they not? A. Yee, sir. 
 
 Q. Is it a savings bank? A. A national bank. 
 
 Q. Don't get any interest on it, do you ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You allow it all to accumulate and lie there without any 
 interest? A. Until I get it out, yes, sir. 
 
LEWIS D. EOBEESON. 465 
 
 Q. You can get it out any day, can't you? A. Yes, sir, you 
 can. 
 
 Q. Sure? A. Yes, sir; you can easy put it out. 
 
 Q. "Why don't you put it out? A. Because I never had any 
 good place to put it out yet. 
 
 Q. When was that book written up ? A. Why, last year some 
 time. 
 
 Q. Now, see if you can find any place here where you deposited 
 any of those checks for Martin you have spoken of. A. No, be- 
 cause I never marked it, who the checks was on, in my book; 
 they always put it on the slip. 
 
 Q. Here is a memorandum, $501.42, drawn out of your ac- 
 count ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You did invest that much, did you, in a bond ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got that yet ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. $513.75? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Water bond; have you got that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There is a check for |150, drawn June 29th, 1893; what 
 was that for ? A. Myself. 
 
 Q. Drawn to yourself? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was it for ? A. 1 loaned it to a man and got a note 
 for it. 
 
 Q. Did he ever pay it? A. No ; I only wish he would. 
 
 Q. Another one for $511? A. Yes, sir; there is one in there 
 besides that. 
 
 Q. You have drawn out $500 three times for investment ? A. 
 More than that. 
 
 Q. $500 each time for investment ? A. Yes, sir ; and one of 
 $100, I think. 
 
 Q. One is a Eailroad Equipment bond? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And one is Dennison Water bond ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You drew no checks for this money, but there is a memo- 
 randum among your vouchers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where are your bonds ? A. My bonds are home. 
 
 Q. And those large sums were taken out of your account 
 without any check by you, but simply a memorandum of pay- 
 ment to you, that way? A. Yes, sir ; the president of the bank 
 or the cashier. 
 
 Q. Whose handwriting is that slip in ? A. 1 suppose Abel 
 Harriny ; he is the cashier. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — When you drew money out of the 
 h&jak on a check, didn't you sign a check for the money ? A. 
 When I drew it by check. 
 
 30 SH 
 
466 CHARLES S. HILL. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — The two items he speaks of, there is 
 memorandum instead of this ; didn't you sign checks for those 
 amounts? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — "Was that their method of doing busi- 
 ness? A, Yes, sir; never signed check for no bond. 
 
 Q. When was this last entry made in your book, this charge 
 for the bond ? A. This year. 
 
 Q. This month, wasn't it? A. No. 
 
 Q. No date opposite at all? A. I think it was the 3d or 4th 
 of January, something like that ; I think it was about that. 
 
 Charles S. Hill, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Cokein. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Philadelphia. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Bookkeeper. 
 
 Q. For whom ? A. Schwink, Stillwagen & Co. 
 
 Q. Were you their bookkeeper in 1893 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know Mr. W. H. Martin 7 A. 1 do. 
 
 Q. Do you remember the circumstance of his presenting a 
 State check there to be cashed? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at this check and endorsement and see if that is the 
 check; it is a check dated July 6th, 1893, for §231.95? A. I 
 recognize the check. 
 
 Q. Was it it cashed by the firm ? A. It was not cashed by the 
 firm. 
 
 Q. State the circumstances? A. I recognize the signature as 
 that of Mr. Stillwagen, a member of the firm, and not having 
 suflacient funds, as we never carry a great deal of cash in the 
 drawer, we had it cashed for him evidently. 
 
 Q. For whom? A. For Mr. Martin, and his signature is here, 
 in the Chestnut Street National Bank. 
 
 Q. Was he indebted to your firm about time ? A. About July 
 6th? 
 
 Q. Yes? A. He was. 
 
 Q. Was your indebtedness taken out of the cash ? ^, No, sir. 
 
 Q. You gave^him the entire amount of money ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who was present there at the time Mr. Martin called to 
 get the check cashed ? A. There was a man by the name of 
 Goorly, and Mr.j^Stillwagen was present ; this is Mr. Stillwagen's 
 signature. 
 
 Q. Mr. Stillwagen signed that and got the money and gave it 
 to Mr. Martin? A. Mr. Stillwagen endorsed the check and I 
 sent out — 
 
 Q. Where did you send, to the bank ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
LEWIS D. EOBBRSON. 467 
 
 Q. Aud gave the cash to Mr. Martin ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did such a thing ever occur in his accounts before or 
 since ? A. Not to my recollection. 
 
 Q. Did he not generally pay his accounts by check ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; he paid the account that he had at that time by his personal 
 check, and the check was entered on July 10th, $108.30. 
 
 Q. He gave his personal check lor that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then you cashed this State check for him in the way 
 you have stated? A. I don't recollect whether that was the day 
 or not. 
 
 Q. But about that time? A. About that time. 
 
 Q. But did he give his personal check for the amount of his 
 bill ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Lewis. D. Robbrson, re- called. 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. What is this Railroad Equipment Company, for which you 
 have a memorandum here as having invested in its bonds ? A. 
 It is a railroad equipment company. 
 
 Q. Where ? A. 1 think it is in New York. 
 Q. Where is the Dennison Water Company ? A. Ohio, I 
 think. 
 
 Q. Here is another for the Railroad Equipment Company — a 
 Central Car Trust bond; where is that? A. That is in New 
 York, I think. 
 
 Q. What is this recent $1,100 investment, marked on the book 
 $1,132.50 ? A. Central Railroad of New Jersey. 
 
 Q. Who called these investments to your attention "^ A. I 
 think the President of the Bank did, or the Cashier. 
 
 Q. Are the bonds there at the bank ? A. He deals in bonds ; 
 he sends off and gets them. 
 
 Q. Are these bonds here at the bank? A. No; I have got 
 them home; I ordered him to get them; that is the reason he 
 put it that way. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to present some evidence on an 
 entirely difterent matter. There are some witnesses here, 
 and I will take it up now — and that is with reference to 
 a portion of the revenues of this State which are derived 
 from what are called judicial fees. 
 
 Some years ago the Legislature changed the system 
 that had before prevailed for a century, and provided 
 that the Judges of the higher Courts should be paid 
 fixed salaries, and should no longer receive fees for giv- 
 ing orders and for their attendance in court. 
 
468 JUDICIAL FEES. 
 
 It was then provided by law that these fees should be 
 covered into the State treasury as part of the revenues 
 of the State. I will read from the Laws of 1880, at page 
 250, with reference to the method of handling these fees 
 and of covering them into the treasury. 
 
 " Be it enacted by the Senate and General Assembly 
 of the State of New Jersey, That it shall be the duty 
 of the clerk of the supreme court, and of the county 
 clerks of the several counties in this state, and of the 
 clerk in chancery, and of the secretary of state of this 
 state, within ten days after the close of each term of 
 the courts for which they are respectively the clerks, to 
 make a full and itemized statement and return to the 
 comptroller of the treasury of this state, of the sums 
 which they have respectively charged and included in 
 taxed bills of costs, or which may have accrued in any 
 case, or which they have received under the provisions 
 of section two of this act, during said term, for any 
 costs or fees taxable, or to be received by them as afore- 
 said, in regard to or for the services of the chancellor, 
 the chief justice and the associate justices of the supreme 
 court, respectively, under any law now or hereafter in 
 force fixing such costs or fees, which statements shall be 
 made under oath and upon blanks containing a form of 
 the said statement and oath, to be furnished to said 
 clerks by said comptroller, and shall be filed in his 
 office." 
 
 That is for the services of the Judges of the Supreme 
 Court and the Chancellor. The reports of the Comp- 
 troller for some years past have called attention to this 
 subject, and have shown that the county clerks in this 
 State are delinquent in this matter, and that the revenues 
 of the State have not been collected in this respect from 
 many of the county clerks. 
 
 For example, I call attention to the Comptroller's 
 report for the year 1894, at page 16, where he says : 
 
 " The law requires all the county clerks, within ten 
 days after expiration of the several terms of court to 
 make a return and payment of the amount of fees 
 charged or received, for the services of the several jus- 
 tices of the Supreme Court. The attention of the county 
 clerks has repeatedly been called to this provision of the 
 Jaw. The counties which have failed to comply there- 
 
JUDICIAL FEES. 469 
 
 with are as follows." And then follows a list of them, 
 some of which are ten or twelve years in arrears. 
 
 The Comptroller, you will observe, is required by law 
 to furnish a blank to the county clerks each term upon 
 which their returns shall be made. I have here the 
 blank which the Comptroller has supplied to me, which 
 is furnished to the county clerks every term, which you 
 will see is most full and specific, and calls attention to 
 the statue and to all the items which should be returned. 
 I have here the Comptroller's letter book showing the 
 letters that he has written and the demands he has made 
 upon the county clerks for these fees, and yet the arrear- 
 ages Still are as follows : 
 
 Atlantic county is more prompt than most counties. 
 The present clerk, Lewis Evans, however, is in arrear 
 in the terms of September and December, 1894. The 
 law requires this return to be made within ten days of 
 the close of the term, and the money paid into the 
 Treasury. It is the State's money ; it is not the clerk's 
 money. 
 
 Bergen county. The clerk, Samuel Taylor, never 
 made any return for the December term, 1894. That 
 is, however, quite recent, and not a very great delin- 
 quency. 
 
 In Burlington county, W. W. Worrell, the present 
 clerk, has made no return for September and December 
 terms, 1894. 
 
 In Camden county, Joseph C. HoUinshead, late 
 clerk, still owes to the State, as by the balance shown 
 by his own returns for the year 1880, $645.19. The 
 Committee will observe that those returns are in 1880, 
 and Mr. HoUinshead's bond will soon be expired, if it 
 has not already expired, as a sealed bond can only be 
 sued on for sixteen years from its date. 
 
 John M. Branning, the late clerk, who I understand 
 has removed to the State of North Carolina, made no 
 return from January term, 1886. 
 
 Robert L. Barber, the present clerk, is in arrears from 
 the October term, 1894, and the January term, 1895. 
 That is not a serious delinquency, although the' October 
 term should undoubtedly be here. 
 
 Cape May county. Edward L. Eice, present clerk, 
 made no returns for April, September and December 
 terms, 1894. 
 
470 JUDICIAL PEES. 
 
 In Cumberland county the present clerk, William D. 
 Trenchard, has not yet returned the January term. This 
 is not a serious delay. 
 
 In Essex county "William A. Smith, late clerk, now 
 deceased, on returns made by him was still indebted to 
 the State on a balance for the December term, 1880, of 
 $40.65; April term, 1881, $75.17; September term, 
 1881, $102.03; April term, 1882, $179.04. He made 
 no returns for September term, 1882. 
 
 J. Warren Vanderveer, late clerk, on his own returns 
 made at the close of the November term, 1887, owes 
 the State $472.58. 
 
 Samuel A. Smith, late clerk, owes a balance, includ- 
 ing April term, 1890, of $2,022.70, as shown by his own 
 returns, and no returns have been made for the follow- 
 ing terms: September and December, 1890; April, 
 September and December, 1891, and April and Septem- 
 ber, 1892. 
 
 James T. Wrightson, present clerk, has made no 
 returns for the following terms : December, 1892 ; April, 
 September and December, 1893; April, September and 
 December, 1894; seven terms of court, for the largest 
 county in the State. 
 
 Gloucester county. Frank B. Ridgeway, present 
 clerk, has made no returns for September and Decem- 
 ber, 1894. That is not very serious. 
 
 Hudson county. Dennis McLaughlin, late clerk. I 
 may say that on this list Mr. McLaughlin seems to be 
 in arrears for September and December, 1894, but Mr. 
 McLaughlin appeared here this morning in answer to a 
 subpoena, and brought with him a check for five hundred 
 and odd dollars for the fees for the September term, and 
 said that the December fees will be forthcoming. I may 
 ysay that Mr. McLaughlin paid into the treasury recently 
 between four and five thousand dollars for the previous 
 years of his term. He was very largely in arrears, but 
 he has settled all up except this last term, paying in 
 altogether more than $5,000. 
 
 Hunterdon county. H. Eugene Park, present clerk. 
 'No returns for December, 1894. That is the last term. 
 
 Mercer county. Barker Gummere, present clerk. 
 No return for January term, 1895. That is not very 
 serious. 
 
JUDICIAL PEES. 471 
 
 Middlesex county. John H. Conger, clerk. No re- 
 turn for December (1894) term. 
 
 Monmouth county is seriously in arrears. Joseph C. 
 Arrowsmith, late clerk, made no returns for the three 
 terms of 1883, and the first part of October term. He 
 is dead, I believe. 
 
 James H. Patterson, late clerk, made no returns for 
 1885, 1886, 1887, 1888, 1889 and 1890, six years, or 
 eighteen terms of court. 
 
 Charles Ewing Patterson, late clerk, made no returns 
 from July 8th, 1890, to the cloKe of his term — November 
 12th, 1890. And the present clerk, Theodore Aumack, 
 has not yet made return for January term of the present 
 year. 
 
 Morris county. Present clerk, Elias B. Mott, has not 
 returned January term. 
 
 -Ocean county. William I. James, late clerk, made 
 no return in December term, 1884, nor any of the terms 
 for 1885 or 1886, or 1887, except one term. He is in 
 arrears nine terms of court, and the last of these was 
 1887. 
 
 Charles B. Mathis, late clerk, made no returns for 
 December, 1887, or April, 1888. 
 
 Mr. Havens, the present clerk, has made no returns 
 for December, 1893, nor the three terms in 1894, being 
 four terms in arrears. 
 
 Passaic county. Albert D. Winfield, present clerk, 
 has made no returns for the last two terms, September, 
 1894, and January, 1895. 
 
 In Salem county, Clinton Kelty, late clerk, made no 
 returns for May and October terms, 1894; and the pres- 
 ent clerk, Mr. Richmond, has not yet made return for 
 January.. 
 
 In Somerset county, the present clerk. Matt H. Van- 
 derveer, has not yet made return for September and 
 December terms. 
 
 Sussex county is largely in arrears. John H. Nelden, 
 late clerk, still owes $19 — no returns made for the year 
 1887 — a small matter. 
 
 Charles W. Shaw, late clerk, made no returns for 
 December term, 1887, nor any of the years from 1888 to 
 1892, being sixteen terms of court and no return. 
 
 Ora C. Simpson, the present clerk, made no returns 
 for 1892, 1893 and 1894 ; seven terms in arrears. 
 
472 JUDICIAL FEES. 
 
 la Uniou county James J. Gorber, late clerk, now 
 deceased, owes a small balance due to IsTovember, 1893. 
 I understand that the Comptroller has made terms of 
 settlement with the executors, and that will be collected, 
 or at least compromised. 
 
 William M. Oliver, late clerk, made no returns dur- 
 ing his one-year term of 1894. The present clerk has 
 not yet returned for the January term. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I can explain that, as far as the 
 present clerk is concerned ; the head clerk in the office 
 has been ill for about two months, and the term is not 
 yet closed. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is only fair to say that these terms in 
 some of the larger counties are really kept open until 
 the next term. 
 
 James S. Vosseller, deceased, has not made any return 
 for 1887. 
 
 In Warren county William L. Hoagland, late clerk, 
 made no return in September term, 1885 ; and the pres- 
 ent clerk, John A. Wildrick, for the last term, Decem- 
 ber, 1894, no return. 
 
 These fees, Mr. Chairman, are part of the revenues of 
 this State which are depended upon. At the time when 
 they were paid to the Judges of the Supreme Court and 
 the Chancellor they were thought to be very large fees, 
 and if rumor is correct, they were collected with a great 
 deal of promptitude by the Judges. Some of us who 
 have been at the Bar twenty years can remember very 
 well going up to the Judges of the Supreme Court with 
 a two-dollar bill in one hand and the papers in the other ; 
 yes, and a five-dollar bill in one hand, to be paid for the 
 signing of a postea. I have done it many times. Those 
 fees were collected, and amounted to a very large sum 
 of money. The fees were reduced, and the better sys- 
 tem was adopted, giving judges salaries. But these fees, 
 such as they are, are part of the revenues of this State 
 and ought to be collected, and they ought to be paid in 
 promptly, and not ten or fifteen years afterwards. And 
 it has been suggested at the Comptroller's office that the 
 law, as it exists, is very unBatisfactory iu the matter of 
 the requirement that the law does not give any penalty, 
 this law of 1880, which I read. That may be so, but the 
 penalties are of a pretty serious kind under the statute. 
 It clearly is an impeachable ofiense, and probably an 
 
JUDICIAL FEES. 473 
 
 indictable oflense, and I rather think a county clerk 
 could be amerced, as a Sherift can, for holding moneys, 
 and if an order would be made by the Court it would 
 be contempt of court in addition. It may be, however, 
 that this act should be altered and some legislation 
 recommended. The thing is in a most unsatisfactory 
 shape at present, and is in such shape that it is perfectly 
 possible for these clerks to neglect the matter, as many 
 of them have done. 
 
 I wish to say, in fairness to the present county clerks, 
 that their attention has been called to it by the Comp- 
 troller, and most of the clerks have made up their 
 returns right up to the present. It is those previous 
 that are guilty of the serious delinquencies. 
 
 I have summoned a number of the county clerks and 
 previous county clerks to come here this morning. I 
 shall ask some of them to testify. It is possible that 
 some suggestion may be made by some of them that 
 may result in its being put in better shape. 
 
 I know it is a matter of anxiety to the financial 
 department that the State has been, and is now, in such 
 condition that the revenues of this State should be leit 
 remaining in dead men's estates, and men gone out of 
 office, and their bonds should be looked to for it. 
 
 Many of these, some of the most serious delinquen- 
 cies evidently will be lost to the State now unless the 
 money can be recovered on the bonds, and to show what 
 a broken reed the bonds have been to lean upon, I have 
 asked the Secretary of State to bring the county clerks' 
 bonds here, and I shall ofler them in evidence before 
 this Committee, and you will see that many of these 
 bonds are almost outlawed ; I am not sure but that some 
 of them are quite so. I have not yet been through 
 them. They certainly should not be allowed to outlaw 
 without some steps being taken on behalf of the State 
 to secure this portion of the State's revenues. 
 
 I believe the Comptroller said that in one or two 
 cases these matters have been placed in the hands of the 
 Attorney-General ; but I have seen no account of any 
 proceedings actually being taken in court. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — You speak of certain letters being 
 written by the Coaaptroller. What is the date of those? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes ; I have here all the letters, written 
 quite recently. The Comptroller's report for several 
 
474 CHAELES B. MATHIS. 
 
 years past shows that lie has been from year to year 
 reminding the County Clerks of it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Is there any law by which the Comp- 
 troller can compel the payment of these accounts ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I suppose that the Comptroller could 
 ask the Attorney-General to bring suit in the name of 
 the State for the money, and in some cases I believe that 
 has been done. 
 
 These letters are August, 1894. The Comptroller 
 seems to have been diligent in giving notice and making 
 the demands in every respect, except going to the length 
 of a suit, except in one case. I find here a large number 
 of letters written to county clerks, on August 14th, 
 1894, reminding them of this law, and reminding them 
 them that they had not made returns, and asking for the 
 returns and money. This is the Comptroller's letter- 
 book. 
 
 Charles B. Mathis, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Were you county clerk of Ocean in 1887 and 1888? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is the reason that no returns of the Judge's fees are 
 made by you in the December term, 1887, and the April term, 
 1888? A. I was ignorant of the fact that any return should be 
 made at that time. 
 
 Q. Were those the only terms that you were county clerk ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; I was appointed by the Governor to fill a vacancy 
 caused by the death of William I. James. 
 
 Q. Your attention has recently been drawn to the matter by 
 the Comptroller ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there any reason why you cannot comply with it ? A. 1 
 think not ; no reason now ; I didn't understand just exactly what 
 to pay, and Mr. Havens, who is my successor, has had the mat- 
 ter in charge and I told him as soon as he found what we had to 
 pay together that we would settle the matter. 
 
 Q. Have you blanks from the Comptroller's office ? ^. I have 
 had ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I think they could give you instructions there? A. I got 
 instructions, but it is very indefinite ; it is a hard matter to know 
 what fees are — 
 
 Q. Doesn't it all appear in the taxed bills of costs which you 
 have charged up ? A. Those taxed bills were never charged by 
 US; that is to say, the Sheriff collected the money from the 
 
CHARLES B. MATHIS. 475 
 
 County Collector and paid us, and in making up tax bills those 
 items were omitted; we never received the money from the 
 county at all. 
 
 Q. Well, that would be the part that the county is to pay, but 
 take the civil actions in which the Supreme Court Judge sat, you 
 understand that there is a column for the Court? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Which is collected by you with your own fees from the 
 lawyers ? A. I can give you a reason ; that was never paid by 
 me then, because I thought we could find just what should be 
 paid, and would pay the whole together, because it was a very 
 small amount; at any rate it didn't amount to very much; not 
 that I wished to deprive the State of any benefit. 
 
 Q. Why couldn't you pay it all at the end of the term ? A. J 
 didn't know until Mr. Havens' term had nearly expired — his first 
 term had nearly expired — that these were to be paid ; no notice 
 had ever been served on me up to that time. 
 
 Q. You didn't receive a notice from the Comptroller's office? 
 A . No, sir ; I had three terms of court. 
 
 Q. December, April and another term? A. September. 
 Q. You must have made a return for one term? A. I think 
 I did. 
 
 Q. Bat for your next two terms you did not ? A. No. 
 Q. You will give attention to it? A. Yes, sir; I have been 
 for a long time, and I am now at present. 
 
 Q. Your bond must be eight years old? A. Well, the bond 
 won't outlaw, I guess. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think that Mr. Mathis suggests one 
 thing, which I have no doubt every county clerk will 
 suggest, that is, that he wanted to pay it all at once ; I 
 suppose he means by that after he has collected it. 
 The law does not put on that basis. The county clerk 
 is not bound to enter up an order or seal a writ, or take 
 any such action for anybody, without getting his fees, 
 and if he trusts an attorney, or anybody else, it is his 
 own affair. The State's revenues are not to be lost by 
 reason of that, and any member of the bar can testify, 
 from experience, that most of our clerks in this State 
 are pretty diligent in collecting their bills, and some of 
 the clerks' oflBces in this State have gone so far as to 
 post the names of those lawyers who do not pay 
 promptly; and, in fact, under our law, which is differ- 
 ent from that in most States, the attorneys are made 
 personally liable for the costs ; and it is the county 
 clerk's own weakness and goodness of heart if he allows 
 
476 A. C UAVENS. 
 
 a dollar to get away from him ; he need not seal a writ 
 or enter an order until he gets his money. Not that I 
 would imply lor a minute that there is any attorney in 
 this State who doesn't pay his bills promptly ; if there 
 be such a one, post his name, and do not seal his writs. 
 Witness — If you will allow me to make a statement. 
 When I went in office, of course I succeeded Col. 
 William I. James, who had been clerk for a number 
 of years. He was considered quite good authority on 
 all matters of that kind. Of course I was not familiar 
 with public affairs, aad when I went into the office 
 Mr. James' son was my right-hand man, or deputy, in 
 the office, and in making these returns, and in making 
 out all reports, of course I called upon him for informa- 
 tion, and I followed the custom which his father had 
 always used in making out his returns ; the same cus- 
 tom has been followed by myself. I retired from the 
 office, and thought everything was all right as far as 1 
 was concerned, that I was square up with everything, 
 until nearly the latter part of Mr. Havens' term, when 
 I received notice from Abbett, I think, that I was in 
 arrears. 
 Q. We are not suggesting the least intentional impropriety on 
 your part, but we want to have this subject stirred up and have 
 it settled if we can. A. Mr. Havens, who will follow me, I sup- 
 pose, can give more information. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Mathis' bond is on file, approved 
 November 21st, 1887. 
 
 A. C. Havens, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are the present clerk of Ocean ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I observe that you have made no returns to the Comptroller 
 for the December term, 1893, nor for the three terms of 1894. 
 What is the delay, Mr. Havens ? A. Well, sir, I don't know 
 that I have any legal excuse. The object of my delay, however, 
 was first, after the change in the Comptroller, was to try to ascer- 
 tain, if I could, something definite about what my duty was in 
 regard to it. The returns were made for the April term, but it 
 was a long time before I made the returns to the former Comp- 
 troller, Col. Heppenheimer. I want to say further that I never 
 received a blank statement until I had been clerk, I think, for 
 more than three years. 
 
A. C. HAVENS. 477 
 
 Q. That is a clear violation of the law in the Comptroller's 
 office. The law distinctly says that these blanks shall be fur- 
 nished to the county clerks, and it is only fair to the clerks to 
 say that. A. I confess that on the principle that every man 
 ought to know what the law is, perhaps I ought to have looked 
 up the law when I was elected clerk, and determined for myself 
 what I ought to have done ; that, of course, I didn't do, and I 
 received this notice from Comptroller Heppenheimer, as I remem- 
 ber it, or not directly from him ; I think I received notice from 
 Leon Abbett, Jr., who was, perhaps, counsel for the Comptroller. 
 Q. Mr. Abbett addressed you as counsel for the Comptroller? 
 A. I have the communications at home ; I didn't think of them. 
 Q. And had you not previous to that received any word from 
 the Comptroller "i A. I don't think, sir, that I had, 
 
 Q. You had not received any blanks ? A. 1 am quite sure I 
 had not, and I entered at once into a correspondence with Mr. 
 Abbett upon the subject. I, of course, was thunderstruck ; I 
 I didn't know I was involved in any court delinquency with the 
 State of !N"ew Jersey, which I try to be a legal, decent subject, 
 and I asked what I might do ; I was desirous to know what my 
 duty was with respect to it, and he sent me three or four — he 
 referred me to three or four statutes on the subject; one, I think, 
 was 1879 and one 1880, and, perhaps, still another, and when I 
 began to examine the fees under this statute I found confusion 
 worse confounded ; I found, at least, three different fees for one 
 item ; I guess that will be found in the fee list, and I didn't know 
 what to do, so I wrote for further information. I am sure I 
 didn't know whether to tax myself fifty cents, sixty-five cents or 
 a dollar, when those three fees were stated for one particular 
 delinquency, and I think you will find it. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The custom has been to charge 
 the largest sum. 
 
 Witness — That depends upon who charges it perhaps. 
 Well, those are the facts ; and then I began to inquire 
 — I couldn't determine about it — I inquired of different 
 county clerks as to what their custom had been. The 
 chief thing to my mind was the injustice of asking a 
 clerk to pay a fee for an indictment found simply 
 because the grand inquest of the State of ISTew Jersey 
 had found that indictment, and the culprit never was 
 found by the sheriff or anybody else, and the clerk had 
 no means whatever of getting the fee out of anybody. 
 Q. You are not chargeable with any fee which you are not by 
 law authorized to collect ? A. Well, that perhaps is so, but how 
 
478 A. C. HAVENS. 
 
 could you collect — I beg your pardon for asking the question — 
 how could you collect the fee when there was nobody to collect 
 it from ? 
 
 Q. The county. A. In a case in which the culprit never turns 
 up? 
 
 Q. I haven't in mind the statute of which you speak, but if 
 the statute charges you with a fee you may depend upon it the 
 statute gives you a lawful claim against the county for it. A. It 
 may be so as to that fee ; you will pardon me ; I will tell you 
 how I came to neglect, perhaps, to tax those fees ; when I was 
 elected county clerk of course I was burdened as to the duties 
 of the county clerk, as almost any man would be who bad no 
 experience, and when we came to tax the fees for the criminal 
 fees in the next term, within a month after I had been sworn, I 
 inquired of the sherifl, who was a man of considerable experi- 
 ence — he was then serving the fifth year, I think he had been 
 deputy under the former sheriff, and was serving his fifth year — 
 and he gave me the information he had gleaned from experience 
 with the former clerk. 
 
 Q. You have been county clerk now for two terms? A. This 
 is my second term ; one term and a year. 
 
 Q. You took office in 1888? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You have made your returns, as I understand it, from 1888 
 to 1893 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It is only the last four terms that are in arrears? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you not continue to make your returns? A. 
 Well, in a moment, if you will bear with me, I will explain that. 
 I struck out and never collected those fees, because the sheriff 
 stated to me that the former clerk had not done it, arguing that, 
 or stating that, since tne Supreme Court Justice was a salaried 
 officer there was no one to pay this to; and he said, " if I tax it 
 and you collect it from the county, you will pay it over to me 
 and I will pay it back to the county again." 
 
 Q. Don't you think you could be better advised by consulting 
 other counsel than the sheriff on such a subject as that ^ A. I 
 probably might, without doubt. i 
 
 Q. It is a matter too technical for any one than a lawyer? A. 
 I received very poor satisfaction from the counsel of the Comp- 
 troller under the circumstances, I assure you. 
 
 Q. Is there any reason now why you can't make your return ? 
 A. JSTo, sir. 
 
 Q. 1 see you have filed two bonds here ? J.. I owe the State, 
 and I am willing to pay it and ready and willing at any time. 
 
WILLIAM W. WORBELL — JAMES T. WEIGHTSON. 479 
 
 William W. "Worrell, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. How long have you been county clerk of Burlington? A. 
 I was elected in November, 1893. 
 
 Q. Have these blanks come to you from the Comptroller. A. 
 I found some in the office when I took possession. 
 
 Q. I see you are back for September and December terms ? A. 
 October and January our terms are. 
 
 Q. What delays the procession with you? A. Well, nothing 
 particularly, except getting the fees; I haven't collected from the 
 attorneys. 
 
 Q. You don't think the law allows you to wait for that, do 
 you? A. !N"o, sir; I don't. 
 
 Q. Is there any difficulty after you have once made out one or 
 two of these returns and got things working, is there any diffi- 
 culty about working under this law ? A. No, sir, I don't find 
 any at all. 
 
 Q. Easy enough done after a man learns how? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 James T. Wrightson sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. I see that your official bond was filed November 17th, 1892, 
 and I suppose you took office about that time? A. On the 15th. 
 
 Q. The Comptroller reports to me that you have not made any 
 return for December term, 1892, nor for any of the five terms 
 since then, being six terms in all. What is the trouble about the 
 returns from Essex ? A. The county of Essex and the county 
 clerks of Essex are in litigation, and have been, and the county 
 hasn't paid me but very little money since I have been in office. 
 Chairman Voorhees — What has that got to do with 
 the State money ? 
 
 A. I will tell you ; it only makes this to do with it. I don't 
 think it has anything to do with it except with a financial stand- 
 point of the county clerk, and I say to you I called on the State 
 Treasurer — it isn't my intention to rob the State or an individual 
 out of a cent — and I spoke to the present Comptroller, and also 
 to the other Comptroller, that these things had been adjudicated, 
 and owing to the change of opinion of the people of the county 
 — we had a Democratic force there, and the people saw fit to 
 remove them during the last part of the office of the auditor, 
 when these things were adjusted by law, which Mr. Voorhees 
 very kindly helped us do. The auditor then and counsel thought 
 as long as there was going to be a new election they thought 
 
480 JAMES T. WEIGHTSON. 
 
 perhaps tbey had better wait before they took those bills, and 
 there was a change, and under the new regime we have a new 
 counsel and a new auditor. 
 
 Q. Let it be so. Suppose the county hasn't paid you. What 
 has that to do with making your returns ? A. And I presumed 
 that I would make the return with the cash, and I went to Mr. 
 Hancock, in the preseuce of Mr. Gummere, with my certified 
 check, and said to him, " Mr. Hancock, I will in a very short 
 time be able to make my returns to you, which I presume to do 
 if it is necessary, or we can send him the return now. 
 
 Q. You make your return first? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then the Comptroller goes over it and it goes to the Treas- 
 urer, and if it is found correct, then you pay the cash, less 5 per 
 cent? A. I expected to send my report with a cheek. 
 
 Q. Does the change in political opinion in Essex county affect 
 the revenues of the State? A. It might; it seems to have affected 
 the revenues of our city and county. 
 
 Q. Under what sort of administration are we to expect the 
 greatest revenues? A. I say to you that as far as the county 
 clerk's office is coucerned this State will get it all. 
 
 Q. I find Essex some five years in arrears. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I never knew that Essex was 
 behind in the procession before. 
 
 A. I can say to Mr. Corbin and Voorhees that all lawyers are 
 not as prompt as they are. I have received a check for both of 
 the last bills sent you. 
 
 Q. You speak of litigation with the county clerks. Are some 
 of the previous clerks in litigation ? A. Yes, sir ; their fees are 
 tied up too. 
 
 Q. Those are bills against the county ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That doesn't touch the civil business? A. No, sir; but 
 the fees from the county really are all the profit there is in the 
 office. 
 
 Q. Short of cash ? A. Yes, sir ; I don't know as you have 
 ever been afflicted that way. 
 
 Q. I have heard of such things. Wouldn't it be pleasanter if 
 you should make returns for these six terms, even if you were 
 not quite ready to give a check, because the county is holding 
 it back. You see the officers and Comptrollers whose duties it 
 was to go over these bills and pass upon them are now out of 
 office? A. I will say to you that it is a misunderstanding on my 
 part; ray returns are made up until January 16, of this year, in 
 my office, and they will show there. Now, I will send them 
 down, and I will also send the wherewithal. 
 
J. WAEEEN VANDEEVEER — EOBEBT L. BAEBBE, 481 
 
 J. Waeren Vandeevbbe, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Ma. Corbin. 
 
 Q. For what period were you clerfc of Essex county? A. 
 From November, 1882, to November, 1887. 
 
 Q. You made your returns, I understand, in full, but that 
 the amount has not yet been paid to the State, or, at least, not 
 all of it; is that correct ? A. That is correct ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your term closed November 17th, 1887? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And there seems to be a balance of |472 you owed the 
 State. That is a good while ago ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I see your bond was filed between 12 and 13 years ago. Is 
 there any difficulty about it — any litigation or any other reason ' 
 A. There is no litigation. In the first place I was delayed mak- 
 ing returns, and in the second place that represents all the money 
 that is due to the State, money that I have not collected ; and I 
 have got some money coming from the county, waiting for one 
 to pay the other. The county is yet owing me. 
 
 Q. You did make a return for every term of your office? A. 
 Yes, sir; the returns are there in full. 
 
 Q. Did you find any difficulty about making up the returns ? 
 A. In what respect ? 
 
 Q. I mean, is there anything that is not clear about the law? 
 A. No. 
 
 Q. You can make it up from your books without difficulty so 
 far as the clerical part of it is concerned ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 KoBBBT L. Barber, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Oorbin. 
 
 Q. You have been clerk of Camden since when ? A. Since 
 the 25th of February, 1891. 
 
 Q. Well, then, you have made quite a number of returns to 
 the State ? A. I have. 
 
 Q. I see for the last two terms you appear to be back, October 
 and January ? A. The two terms there should be changed ; it is 
 September and December ; there has been a change in the court. 
 
 Q. Is there any particular difficulty about working under this 
 law now? A. None with me; mine have all been paid. I desire 
 to say this to the Committee : that we commenced the Septem- 
 ber term on the second Tuesday, and we have been in continuous 
 session to the present time ; at no time could I have been charged 
 with being delinquent, except on the September term, and that 
 running right into the December term, I didn't make that return. 
 
 Q. The December term is not yet closed ? A. The December 
 term closed on last Tuesday week, when the April term com- 
 
 31 SH 
 
482 ROBERT L. BAEBER. 
 
 menced, and I have paid the Comptroller the September term, 
 and also for the December term which closed last Tuesday, and 
 to-day would have been, in the strict letter of the law — 
 
 Q. Tou have paid him to-day ? A. 1 have paid him ; yes, sir. 
 I have made my returns, but the court just continuing from one 
 term right into the other, which we have done now for six months, 
 is the only reason I Lave. 
 
 Q. In your experience you have not any difficulty with the op- 
 eration of this law ? A. No, sir, none whatever. I think there 
 was one matter ; you wanted to know whether there were any 
 suggestions of the clerk? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. And you also remarked that the clerk didn't have 
 to file papers unless they were paid for. Well, that is all right. 
 It is very inconvenient sometimes for a lawyer, I suppose, to send 
 nine cents or eighteen cents or twenty-five, &c. I think it would 
 be a good scheme to prohibit a clerk from filing the papers un- 
 less the fee does come. 
 
 Q. Then he can make his deposits so as to meet them ? A. 
 It is very inconvenient for an attorney to send nine cents or any 
 small fee there, and if the clerk don't take the paper and file it he 
 has ofiended some one, and eventually the clerk will be out. I 
 want to say to the Committee this : I have paid my September 
 and December fees, which closed last Tuesday a week, and I have 
 paid |250 there to the State that I have taken out of my own 
 pocket in advance ; I haven't collected it from the lawyers, and 
 some I guess I won't, too. 
 
 Q. Isn't it a fact, that so far as the lawyers are concerned the 
 principal embarrassment is in enforcing that law which allows 
 you to collect the fees V A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In other words, you would have to discriminate ? A. Yes, 
 sir; the moment that a clerk does that he is offending the 
 lawyers, and he will become very unpopular. 
 
 Q. In Chancery, the Clerk in Chancery sends to all of us who 
 are lawyers and says we have no money here to meet the Chan- 
 cellor's fees, and we send him a check for $50 or $100, which he 
 passes to our credit until it is exhausted and he sends more, and 
 we send him more ; how would that work with the county clerks ? 
 A. Maybe a good many lawyers would think they were just as 
 able to keep that as the county clerk. 
 
 Q. Then you need not file their papers ? A. It may work 
 very satisfactory in the Court of Chancery, but to a county clerk 
 where the clerk is supposed to know pretty nearly all the 
 lawyers, &c., and all more or less friendly with him, I don't 
 think the clerk could get the deposit. 
 
JOSEPH C. HOLLINSHEAD. 483 
 
 Q. You think a law forbidding the filing of papers or sealing 
 of papers would answer the purpose ? A. Yes, sir ; and make a 
 penalty to it. 
 
 Q. We are asking you these questions with a view to relieve 
 the embarrassment which we know the clerks are now under? 
 A. Well, I am ; I know that. 
 
 Q. That would be your suggestion, to compel pre-payment? 
 A. Yes, sir, of the court fees; let the clerk take his chances on 
 the other fees. 
 
 Joseph C. Hollinshbad, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. For what period were you clerk of Camden? A. Five 
 years, between 1880 and 1885. 
 
 Q. You appear to have made returns to the State for every 
 term, but there appears to be a balance of $645.10 due the State. 
 Is that correct? A. It is correct according to the report of the 
 Comptroller which I have in my pocket, as far as I know. 
 
 Q. That is made out from your returns, is it not? A. Yes, sir. 
 I am very glad I happen to have that with me, for I didn't know 
 what I was coming here for to-day, and it has been so long since 
 I was county clerk that I have almost forgotten that I ever was 
 county clerk. 
 
 Q. These moneys, you know, are part of the revenues of the 
 State? A. Yes, sir; I was surprised that I owed the State any 
 money a short time ago ; I expected it had been settled up long 
 ago. 
 
 Q. The matter had escaped your attention? A. No, sir; I 
 thought it was all settled when I left the office ; that was the 
 impression I had, but I am very glad to have this to refresh my 
 memory with. I find here upon the report that my returns were 
 made regularly at every term, and I have returned all the money 
 that I have collected. This balance of $645 is money that I have 
 not collected, nor couldn't collect during my term, and T was not 
 aware that I was responsible or gave any security for moneys 
 that didn't come into my hands in any way or shape, or couldn't 
 get, and the court got in my way, and when the comptroller 
 came tO my office, or his deputy, about these fees, we asked 
 what should be done in the matter, and he recommended that 
 we should apply the rule of court, which was that every attorney 
 that had not settled his dues at the previous term of court, we 
 should apply the rule of court and file no more papers until he 
 was settled. We applied that in two or three cases, and the 
 court would order their cases put on the list and the business to 
 
484 JOSEPH C HOLLINSHEAD. 
 
 go OD, and the consequence was we were prohibited from col- 
 lecting this money. 
 
 Q. What court did that, in defiance of the rule of court — put 
 their cases on when they wouldn't pay their fees? A. It was 
 Parker's court. 
 
 Q. The Circuit Court of Camden county? A. Yes, sir; Joel 
 Parlier. I asked him several times what would be done in such 
 cases ; I told him I didn't know what to do, and I asked him for 
 counsel; I thought he was the proper one to go to; and he 
 refused to talk to me ; he said I ought to have private counsel of 
 my own ; and I had several, but they all difiered, and I knew no 
 more when I went out ot office what my duties were, and don't 
 to-day, than when I went in ; I only had to take what I could 
 get, the best information I could get, and Parker refused to give 
 it to me, and this money that is now due me — 
 
 Q. Have you never collected any of this from 1885 to the pres- 
 ent day? A. ISTot a dollar since I came out of the office. 
 
 Q. Lawyers are good, aren't they? A. I wish I thoHght they 
 all were. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You have seen so much of it 
 you are probably forming a true estimate of a lawyer? A. I 
 would certainly formed a better opinion if I hadn't seen as much, 
 no doubt. 
 
 Q. I don't know whether they are any more delinquent than 
 some of the county clerks ? J.. I am, in my term of office, out- 
 side of this, or with this, about $2,500 money that I can't collect ; 
 I would be glad if somebody would put me in some shape to 
 collect it. 
 
 Q. Of course, if the Court disregard the settled rules of court 
 I can see how that would be embarrassing. Judge Parker was 
 one of the best natured men in the world and could hardly refuse 
 a man anything that would accommodate him, but there is a 
 rule of court about that, made by the Supreme Court, that cases 
 should not be put on the list unless the fees are paid. A. I 
 thought I had no authority. 
 
 Q. And you had the further authority of the law that no man 
 could compel you, not even the Judge, to seal a writ or file a 
 paper unless it was paid for. A. I wasn't aware of that. I 
 thought I was right when I was obeying the order of the Court ; 
 that is what I thought ; if I made a mistake, it was through 
 ignorance, that is all. 
 
 Q. Have you this matter under consideration now. Is there 
 anything being done? A. Well, that is all that has been done 
 
JOSEPH C. H^LLINSHEAD. 485 
 
 about it ; I had a notice from the Comptroller some six months 
 ago. 
 
 Q. This is getting to be a pretty old matter. Your bond is 
 dated in 1880. A. My counsel — he says that I am not respon- 
 sible for moneys that I can't collect; whether I am or not I don't 
 know ; that is a question to be settled ; I suppose, I can't say 
 that I am or not. I think it is a pretty hard case to place a man 
 in a position to be responsible for money he can't get when he 
 is debarred from collecting it. 
 
 Q. They shouldn't put a good natured man in as county clerk? 
 A. In two or three cases our counsel there in Camden seemed to 
 think that the clerk had no right to this money at all, that they 
 thought the sheriff was bound to collect this money, and they 
 paid — when I was pressing them — paid the sheriff the money, 
 and I have never received it. 
 
 Q. You are now talking about the county's part for criminal 
 cases 1 A. I can't tell ; some of the fees — it has been so long 
 that I can't tell yov what they are ; it is very much complicated 
 and I would suggest the laws would be changed about the fees. 
 
 Q. Drop out fees altogether ? A. Wipe them out, or make it 
 in some shape so that somebody could understand it ; T wasn't 
 there long enough to get posted. 
 
 Senator Skirm — You ought to have been elected 
 again. 
 
 Witness — I don't want to be ; I had enough of it. 
 
 Recess. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to bring to the attention of the 
 Committee a matter that was suggested to me by one of 
 the Senators of the Committee, and that is the matter 
 of transportation upon railroads, which has been used 
 by certain State officers and others and paid for by the 
 State. The method has been substantially this : When 
 persons desired to be transported at the expense of the 
 State, application was made to the Quartermaster-Gen- 
 eral, who issued an order for military transportation. 
 These orders for military transportation were presented 
 to the railroad company and tickets obtained for them 
 and so the carriage upon the railroads was secured. It 
 has been used for purposes entirely aside from military 
 service ; in fact, I see that women, as well as men, have 
 used it, but it has been done through the department of 
 the militia for convenience, perhaps, but I desire to 
 show, as suggested by one of the Senators, precisely 
 what has been done and to offer evidence in regard to it. 
 
4:6 S S. ARMSTRONG. 
 
 S. 8. Armstrong, sworn. 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Are you employed in the Quartermaster- General's office? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In what capacity? A. In charge of the clerical work. 
 Q. How long have you been employed there ? A. About 20 
 years. 
 
 Q. You are familiar with the details of that office, are you ? 
 A. Yea, sir. 
 
 Q. You have issued from time to time, have you not, orders 
 for military transportation to the Superintendent of the State 
 House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And to the Executive Department ? A, Yes, sir. 
 Q. Just explain the method of procedure when you issue an 
 order for transportation. A. That is one of the books; cut ofi 
 the order, it is attached to that and issued and presented to the 
 ticket office and ticket given for it. 
 
 Q. Are these some of your orders ? A. Yes, that is the order. 
 Q. And this is the stub of the order? A. Yes, sir; tickets 
 issued on that order. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The orders read in this way : " No. 
 
 State of New Jersey, Quartermaster-General's office, 
 Trenton, February 28th, 1890. Service Superintendent 
 State Capitol : The Pennsylvania Railroad Company will 
 please transport B. J. Ford, Superintendent State Capitol, 
 from Trenton to Jersey City ; exchange for special ticket. 
 Richard A. Donnelly, Quartermaster- General ; " and 
 below receipt "I certify on honor that the Pennsylvania 
 Railroad Company has furnished transportation for 
 myself and men (and men is scratched out) from Tren- 
 ton to Jersey City in compliance with the above request. 
 Bernard J. Ford." 
 Q. What authority did the Quartermaster-General have for 
 issuing this military transportation to Mr. Ford ? A. There were 
 a few orders issued before the present Quartermaster-General 
 was commissioned. 
 
 Q. Who issued the order to the Quartermaster-General ? A. 
 The Governor. 
 
 Q. Is this the first order ? A. This is the first order. 
 
 Q. Order received from the Commander-in-Chief ? Yes, sir. 
 
 q. "Trenton, N. J., February 14th, 1892; General Richard A. 
 
 Donnelly, Quartermaster-General, Trenton, IST. J., General: 
 
 You are hereby authorized to issue at the request of Mr. Bernard 
 
 J. Ford, Superintendent of the State House and grounds, such 
 
S. S. ARMSTRONG. 487 
 
 transportation as may be required by him in connection with his 
 official duties, and report monthly the amount thereof. Very 
 respectfully, Leon Abbett, Governor ; " was another order sub- 
 sequently given in respect to this? A. I think there was another 
 order later in 1893, 
 
 Q. The other order is dated Trenton, May 31st, 1893, " Quarter- 
 master-General, Trenton. Sir: Please furnish to Mr. Bernard 
 J. Ford, Superintendent of the State Capitol and adjacent public 
 grounds, such transportation as may be required by him from 
 time to time for employes of his department traveling on busi- 
 ness connected therewith ; railroad bills for same to be certified 
 by Mr. Ford and submitted to me for examination and approval. 
 Very respectfully, George T. Werts, Governor. 
 
 Q. Have you made up a list of the transportation furnished 
 under these orders ot the Commander-in-Chief? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Is this a list, which I have here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The list of transportation is long and 
 numerous, as the Committee will see — several hundred. 
 Senator Skirm — Issued to whom? 
 Mr. Corbin — I will read some of them, and the sten- 
 ographer can copy this list in the record. It begins 
 January, 1890. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Does it appear what connection 
 they had with the military department? 
 Q. When bills came in from the railroad company for this 
 transportation, did other bills come in also for military transpor- 
 tation? A. They came in on the general bill. 
 
 Q. You picked these out from the general ones ; to whom did 
 you render them ? ^ . To Mr. Ford. 
 
 Q. And they were paid and charged to the State House 
 expense? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— Paid by Mr. Ford ? A. No, certified 
 by him, and not entered in the military account at all. 
 
 Mr. Corbin read a statement of orders of transporta- 
 tion issued from the Quartermaster-General's Depart- 
 ment to Department of Superintendent of State Capitol 
 and Public Grounds during years 1890, '91, '92, '93 
 and '94. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Why should these people travel at 
 the expense of the State ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I suppose, with the exception of certain 
 of these, when, for instance, Mr. Lambert, the car- 
 penter, and others were sent on errands for the State, 
 that it was not legitimate State business at all. There 
 
488 S. S. ARMSTRONG. 
 
 is a portion of it, undoubtedly, that is, and the rest ot 
 it is not. Mr. Thompson lived in Elizabeth, and there 
 are scores of his here. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But he was paid by the State for hi& 
 services. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No doubt. Mr. Ford, as I am informed, 
 
 also held annual passes on the railroads, but if he did 
 
 hold passes, these were issued for some other person. I 
 
 will be able to prove,! think, that he held passes. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Who is Foster ? A. Document Clerk 
 
 at that time. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Who is Hayes? A. Clerk in the 
 Treasurer's office. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Who was Gagg ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — He was the fellow who got the Repub- 
 lican caucus secrets last year. 
 
 Senator Skirm — What was there at Manunka Chunk 
 that required the presence of these State House officers 
 there ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I understand that one of these officers 
 lived there, and it was no doubt for his transportation, 
 and his friends that this was given. 
 
 Senator Skirm — It seems to me that this is worse than 
 highway robbery ; it is a clean steal, with no opportunity 
 for the State to protect itself. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It isn't a percentage. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It is a mean sort of a steal. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — That is probably an excursion to 
 Manunka Chunk. 
 
 Senator Skirm — In other words this was a steal on 
 the part of these people on the State of Ifew Jersey on 
 the one hand, and then the railroad company on the 
 other, because I presume they got reduced fare. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Some of this transportation was no doubt 
 on legitimate errands and a lower rate was availed of 
 by this method, but it seems to me that according to law, 
 it should be in the service of the State. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — What is the aggregate ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin— $365.30. It is at the military rate of 
 transportation, two cents a mile. 
 
 ISTow, there is another item to which I wish to call 
 your attention. I see they have issued transportation 
 to quite a large extent to the Executive department. 
 Q. What order had they for that ? A. By & verbal order. 
 
JOHN M. BONNELL. 489 
 
 Q. Who gave that verbal order? A. Well, we issued a few at 
 the request of Mr. Fox, and a few at the request of Mr. Gnichtel, 
 and after that they required so much of it that the Governor 
 suggested having a few blanks. 
 
 Q. It was done, then, under the order of the Commander-in- 
 Chief? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you then do ? A. Made those up in the same 
 shape. 
 
 Q. You gave him these blank orders for transportation ? A. 
 There is a memorandum in the order book, " Order No. — , from 
 Executive Department." 
 
 Q. And you put them in the Executive department, and when 
 they ran out they came to you tor more ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And are these some of them that have been paid by the 
 State ? A. Yes, sir ; in that package. 
 
 Q. These seem to foot up $822 to the Executive department ; 
 they are quite numerous ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is one batch of them here amount- 
 ing to something like $126 in 1893-4, that I understand 
 were for the transportation of Mr. Hulme and Mr. 
 Riker to Newark and back, at the time of tue illness of 
 the Treasurer, Mr. Grey ; some one had to go every day 
 for signatures; he wasn't able to come here, and the 
 transportation was got in this way ; that is an econom- 
 ical way to get it; that was in November, 1893, and 
 January, 1894. These I have in my hand now were all 
 issued for that account, quite a large number of them ; 
 I think with a few exceptions they are used by Mr. 
 Riker and Mr. Hulme going to Newark. These others 
 were used largely by Mr. Samuel Gordon going to New 
 York, I think, in the service of the Governor ; by John 
 H. Fox going to Sea Girt and New York, and Mr. Fox 
 and Mrs. L. Ringold to Sea Girt. Gnichtel, the Gov- 
 ernor's stenographer, used some, and very largely Gor- 
 don and Gnichtel and Fox used them to Sea Girt and 
 New York. 
 
 (A copy of this list of transportation was ordered en- 
 tered upon the record.) 
 
 John M. Bonnell recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. ' 
 
 Q. Do you happen to know whether Mr. B. J. Ford, the 
 former Superintendent of the State House, had a free pass on the 
 Pennsylvania railroad? A. Well, he showed me an annual pass 
 on the Pennsylvania railroad. 
 
490 S. S. ARMSTRONG. 
 
 Q. What year? A. 1894. 
 
 Q. Did he have it for 189.3 and 1892? A. I couldn't say 
 about that; he showed me the annual pass for 1894. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I call attention to the fact to show that 
 the transportation that came in his name was probably 
 for other persons. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Since your incumbency, has there 
 been any such necessity for passes like these? A. There has 
 never been any necessity for it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Is there anything on the Treas- 
 urer's books since you have been in the office ? A. One bill for 
 shipping the laws from the printer in Camden to the County 
 Collectors throughout the State; I sent my Document Clerk 
 there to ship them, and he returned the bill to the State for 
 transportation, and I thought it would be much cheaper to send 
 him there than to have them shipped here and packed in boxes 
 again; but I never found it necessary to ask for transportation 
 for any of my help. 
 
 Q. This system has been entirely discontinued, as far as your 
 office is concerned "i A. 1 don't think it is necessary. 
 
 Q. How long have you been here in charge of the State House? 
 A. A year the 28ih of May. 
 
 Q. How many occasions during that year have you had for 
 transportation for your employes? A. Only once; that was in 
 shipping these laws that I speak of from the printer, in Camden, 
 to the difierent county collectors throughout the State, and I 
 insisted on the document clerk making out a bill and rendering 
 it direct to the State. 
 
 S. S. Armstrong, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Is this system still used there by the State House Superin- 
 tendent or by the Executive Department? A. No, sir; expired. 
 
 Q. How long since it has been unused ? J.. I don't think — 
 very little was issued in the spring of 1893 ; I think very little of 
 it, issued on an order of Mr. Fox. 
 
 Q. Is any military transportation now furnished to anybody 
 outside of the military service ? A. I^o, sir ; except disabled 
 soldiers of the war. 
 
 Q. On what occasions? A. To transport them to their home 
 at Newark. 
 
 Q. That belong in the soldier's home ? A. Go, probably, to 
 some point to be examined by a surgeon ; very few cases of that 
 kind. 
 
EUGKNE J. MURPHY. 491 
 
 Q. To be examined with a view to getting a pension ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that you consider to be a semi-military service ? A. 
 Charity ; very little of that. 
 
 Q. But besides transportation of soldiers and veterans, is any 
 of the military transportation now used for other persons ? A. 
 ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. How long had this system been in force? A. Well, never 
 to that extent ; there has always been more or less of it. 
 
 Q. But you say, during these three or four years, it was exces- 
 sive ? A. Yes, that is more than the average. 
 
 Q. Ever since the war it has been the custom for the Quarter- 
 master when called upon, to give this free transportation. Do 
 you think that idea has been expelled from the people now ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; gradually died out ; that has been about the heaviest 
 of it. 
 
 Q. Had you any knowledge of who used these passes issued to 
 the Superintendent of the State House ? A. Not altogether, no 
 sir. I wasn't present always when the application was made ; 
 some I made out myself and some were made out by an assistant 
 in the office. Ford always gave some good reason for it ; I 
 always thought he would be on hand to answer for it. 
 
 Eugene J. Murphy, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. You were employed by Mullins & Co.? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (J. Did anybody in connection with his firm have any of this 
 free transportation ? A. Yes, sir ; there was a carpet cutter by 
 the name of Rickert. 
 
 Q. And from whom did he get it? A. "Well, Mr. Ford ; I will 
 tell you how it came about ; Mr. Ford came to the store one day 
 and was ordering some carpets and Mr. Mullins said to him, 
 " Well, Barney, I suppose you can let us have a pass for that, 
 can't yon ?" he says " certainly," and he went to the telephone 
 and telephoned to Mr. Donnelly's office an order that a pass be 
 sent in his name. 
 
 Q. In Ford's name ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did it come ? A. Yes sir. 
 
 Q. On how many occasions did Mullins' cutter have this trans- 
 portation ? A. 1 remember two very distinctly. 
 
 Q. Look at one of these orders for military transportation ; 
 was that the kind of a pass? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I present to the Committee a contract, 
 as I understand, sent by Mr. McDonnell, the Chairman 
 
492 PRINTING, ADVERTISING AND STATIONERY. 
 
 of the Board of Arbitration, between him and the Le- 
 high Valley Railroad Company with reference to his 
 advertising in the Paterson Labor Standard in consid- 
 eration of free transportation over the railroad. 
 
 I understand the Chairman to say that this is sent to 
 the Committee in further extenuation and explanation 
 of his testimony touching the distinction between dif- 
 ferent kinds of passes; it is dated February 25th, 1895: 
 " The undersigned publisher and proprietor or business 
 manager of the Paterson Labor Standard, a weekly news- 
 paper published at Paterson, N. J., hereby certifies that 
 said paper is of a general news character, has a bona 
 fide circulation of over copies; he solicits the ad- 
 vertisement of the Lehigh Valley Railroad Company 
 and agrees to accept non-transferable transportation 
 over the line of said railroad at full first-class rate in 
 payment for the same ; he agrees to publish as fol- 
 lows " 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — And he is also to publish read- 
 ing notices from time to time in 1895 and such local 
 notices pertaioing to the Lebigh Valley Railroad as 
 may be sent and ordered by the general passenger agent, 
 and in the event of the discontinuance or change in the 
 management of publication, to return at once all unused 
 editorial transportation to the company. 4th. Further 
 agreed that the transportation furnished shall be non- 
 transferable and furnished only upon the written order 
 of J. P. McDonnell. 5th. To send copy of the publi- 
 cation regularly to the general passenger agent — the 
 usual newspaper contract. 
 
 I thought it was but fair to the gentleman that he 
 should have the distinction made between a free pass 
 and a paid pass. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — To resume with reference to the subject 
 of printing, advertising and stationery, to which I made 
 reference last week. I have made up some figures for 
 the use of the Committee. I stated at that time that 
 the printing and advertising was not all stated in the 
 Treasurer's accounts under those heads. If the Com- 
 mittee will turn to the second page of that schedule you 
 will see, for instance, under the head of printing, last 
 year, there is charged |43,272 ; under the head of adver- 
 tising, $89,374. Now, an inexperienced person might 
 suppose that those two accounts, being separated in that 
 
PRINTING, ADVERTISING AND STATIONERY. 493 
 
 way, covered all the printing and advertising done by 
 the State government, but far from it; the printing and 
 advertising will be found in 26 accounts. Now, if you 
 will turn to the firat page again and take out what is 
 obviously printing, advertising or stationery, it will be 
 found that the following sums were spent by the State 
 for those purposes; this includes the advertising of the 
 laws and other advertisenjents and printing and station- 
 ery on the face of the reports : 
 
 In 1891 the sum was $174,694 04 
 
 In 1892 the amount was $177,998 93 
 
 In 1893 it was $186,938 30 
 
 In 1894 it was $191,835 23 
 
 I desire to say further, that this by no means repre- 
 sents all the cost of printing and advertising. There 
 are numerous other items which do not appear upon the 
 surface in these reports ; I have one in mind now for 
 which I have a voucher for nearly $5,000 for a single 
 item of printing. Some of the boards, under existing 
 laws, draw from the treasury a lump sum, a sum 
 for the administration of their affairs, and out of 
 that they extend for their own printing and stationery 
 and advertising, sums, the amount of which can only be 
 found by a long further and possibly tedious examina- 
 tion, but I know that they are very large ; as I say, I 
 have one bill in my possession for nearly $5,000 which 
 does not appear anywhere in the State's records, I mean 
 reports. So that my estimate given to the committee 
 the other day of $200,000 per year, as expense of print- 
 ing and advertising and stationery, I think is quite 
 within the truth, and it can be demonstrated if we have 
 time enough to go into every detail of expenditure. 
 
 I think it is unfortunate that the accounts are so kept 
 that these things are not obvious to the Legislature. 
 An inattentive reader of these books might well come 
 to the idea that we were spending only $43,000 a year 
 for printing, when, in fact, it is five times that ; or, if he 
 looked at the advertising, he might think it was a trifle 
 over .$100,000, when it is over $200,000, and it is scat- 
 tered through the accounts and much more of it 
 covered up and not shown at all, No doubt the neces- 
 sary printing and advertising is a matter of very con- 
 
494 CHARLES BECHTEL. 
 
 siderable expense. No doubt there is a vast amount of 
 it that is legitimate aud proper, but I must say that the 
 extent to which these figures have gone and the total 
 money that is expended in this way, being larger than 
 any other expenditure of the government by far, is quite 
 a startling fact for counsel, if it is not for the Committee, 
 and does seem to require some sort of consideration, at 
 least, with a view to curtailment in this direction. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — How much of it was done under 
 bids? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — What you see put down as printing, $43,- 
 000, is largely done under bids, but not all of it ; the part 
 that is done under bids is by no means the larger part; 
 it is the smaller part when you take into consideration 
 the advertising and the the rest. Now, understand, the 
 printing of the laws in the newspapers is the biggest item 
 of that, and the price of that is fixed by the Legislature, 
 aud that is going to be a very large sum of money this 
 year. 
 
 Charles Bbchtel sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation? A. It is various ; clerical mostly. 
 
 Q. Are you expert in the matter of printing and of printers' 
 work? A. Practical printer. 
 
 Q. You have been employed by the State, have you not, for 
 many years past to measure up and estimate the value of print- 
 ing done for the State? A. About 30 years. 
 
 Q. These documents that come in printed under contract are 
 examined and measured by you, are they not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 ^. And you estimate the amount of matter which they con- 
 tain ? -4.1 count it. 
 
 Q. And certify to the correctness of the bills ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How is the matter submitted to you; when do you first see 
 it? A. When the bill is rendered to the Comptroller. 
 
 Q. Well, the bill is turned over to you ? A. It is turned over 
 to me. 
 
 Q. With the document itself ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you also measure up the documents which are printed 
 without any contract ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Are they never submitted to your inspection? A. No, sir- 
 
 Q. Who passes on the correctness of those bills? A. I don't 
 know, sir. 
 
CHARLES BECHTEL. 495 
 
 Q. Have you to do with anything outside of the documents 
 which are given out in the annual contract? A, Well, yes; ad- 
 vertisements are submitted; I measure all those. 
 
 Q. The printing of the laws in the newspapers? A. I measure 
 those. 
 
 Q. I suppose with those, you measure them up once in one 
 newspaper and pay all newspapers alike? A. That determines 
 all the rest. 
 
 Q. I show you a document headed " Public Printing, 1894, 
 Specifications and Conditions." Does this contain a list of the 
 contract printing of documents and laws? A. Yes, sir; the laws 
 are on a separate sheet ; there is another specification for the 
 laws. 
 
 Q. How about the journal of the two houses? A. That is 
 another specification. 
 
 Q. Is that a printed specification like this? A. The House 
 journal is printed by order of the Legislature ; the Senate journal 
 is contracted for afterwards. 
 
 Q. Do you measure up the laws that are printed in book-form ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the journal of the two Houses? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In other words, everything that goes by contract ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Do you pay any attention to the calculation of the prices, 
 and whether the prices and the bill conform to the contracts ? 
 A. Took their bids for that; took tlie bids of the contractor. 
 
 Q. Don't you take the contract? A. And the contract, of 
 course ; their bid ie in the contract specifying what documents 
 are in that particular bid. 
 
 Q. When these contracts are given out by the Comptroller, 
 are you called in at that period of it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you help to get up these specifieationB? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They are practically the same from year to year ? Q. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Do you assist in making up a list of documents to be pub- 
 lished ? A. No, sir ; the Printing Committee has done that. 
 
 Q. You mean the Joint Committee of the two Houses? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When printing is done in the German language, does it 
 cover more space than it does in English? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much more? A. Well, ptetty near one-third more. 
 
 Q. Why is that? A. Well, that has been explained to me, 
 because the German language takes so many more words to 
 express the same idea. 
 
496 CHARLES BECHTEL. 
 
 Q. Are the type any larger ? A. The same size. 
 
 Q. Is there more padding? A. N'o, sir; not in those books, 
 
 Q. I show you these two volumes, constituting the report for 
 1893 of the Board of Education ; I observe that volume 2 is 
 entirely made up, except the headings, of table work, figures, 
 being some 530 pages. The English and German figures are the 
 same, are they not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the table, with the exception of the headings, is just 
 the same in English as it is in G-erman? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, when the translator is paid for translating English 
 into German, is he paid for translating these tables? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. I observe that, in the first volume of this report, that nearly 
 half of it, that is to say, some 500 pages, is also made up of 
 figure work, tables, so that in this report there is more than a 
 thousand pages of tables? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The figures, which are precisely the same in German as 
 they are in English, and yet the translator, you say, is paid for 
 translating a thousand pages of tables, is he? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. At the same rate as he would be a thousand pages of solid 
 matter ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He can go to Europe while he is doing that ? A. He did 
 go. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — A thousand pages for which translation 
 was paid, and there is nothing done to it except the 
 headings. 
 
 §. (By Chairman Voorhees) — How is the translator paid, by 
 the page? A. Yes, sir; he has a contract with the State. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Do you know who the trans- 
 lator was ? A. Judge Hoffman, of Hoboken. 
 
 Q. I observe that the contracts given out for German printing 
 are at very much higher rates than those for English ; for ex- 
 ample, I see that the composition of English is given out some- 
 times as low as 23 cents per thousand ems, and I observe the 
 composition of German is sometimes as high as 81 cents ; what 
 is the reason for that great discrepancy ? A. Well, there is com- 
 petition between the English printers and very little between 
 German printers. 
 
 §. There is very little ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. Why not? A. 1 don't know. 
 
 Q. There were only three or four of them in the State ? A. 
 About three. 
 
 Q. And they get together and arrange it so that one or the 
 other gets it ? A. \ presume so. 
 
CHARLES BKCHTEL. 497 
 
 Q. That is why the State pays three or four prices for that 
 printing? A. Yes; I wouldn't say three or four prices. 
 
 Q. Well, two prices. A. The English is done too low. 
 
 Q. Do you think the German is done too high ? A. Some- 
 times ; the Heinz Company, I remember, did it for 35 cents. 
 
 Q. That was a fair price ? A. They lost money, 
 
 Q. Are you sure about that ? J.. I am a little familiar with 
 the German printers. 
 
 Q. Another time they did it for 81 cents? A. Yes; then 
 ■they made something. 
 
 Q. I show you these two volumes of the report of 1893, Board 
 of Education ; what is the cost to the State of those volumes ? A. 
 I don't remember now ; this bill hasn't come in for that. 
 
 Q. The smaller part, you say cost $6,300 1 A. 1 believe so. 
 
 Q. For how many copies ? A. 1,000. 
 
 Q. And the first part, with over a thousand pages, you say the 
 bill hasn't yet come in ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. About what will that cost ? A. It is hard to tell. 
 
 Q. It will cost prettty near double, won't it ? A. Very near ; 
 not quite. 
 
 Q. So that about $18 a volume will pay for that report in Ger- 
 man ? A. Yes, sir; probably $15. 
 
 Q. Your estimate the other day on the first volume was this 
 1,056 pages, of which 500 and over are tables ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There is as much table in it as there is in this ? A. Yes, 
 count the same amount. 
 
 Q. It will be perhaps a little short of $12 a volume. A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — ^Did I understand that they paid 
 83 cents a thousand ems simply for putting up English 
 figures in » German book ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It was the translation I had spoken of, 
 but that is so, I guess. 
 
 Q. That is all charged as German printing, isn't it? A. Yes, 
 sir ; figures in German are the same as in English. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If you call yourself an Englishman while 
 you are setting the job, it is one price, and if you call 
 yourself a Dutchman, it is another. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Don't you use the same font of - 
 type ? A. The German compositor has to set the same number 
 of ems as the English. 
 
 Q, (By Chairman Voorhees) — And the type for figures are quite 
 similar to those for English ? A. Yes, sir ; but he has to set it 
 all up; he does the same work. 
 
 32 SH 
 
498 CHAKLES BECHTBL. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Does identically the same work ? 
 A. He gets more for it than the English printer does. 
 
 Q. The figures are exactly the same, whether in German or 
 English. What is your observation in the thirty years' experience 
 you have had here about these volumes published in foreign 
 tongues ; is there any demand for them, as a matter of fact ? A. 
 One wouldn't suppose so if they went down in the basement. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact some of the editions stay here substan- 
 tially unbroken, do they not? Q. Yes, sir. 
 ■ Q. And they are not demanded by anybody ? A. No, si/ 
 
 Q. I see there has been some printing here in the Italian 
 language ? A. That is all downstairs. 
 
 Q. None of that has been taken away, has it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know of any Italian who has ever asked for one 
 copy t A. 1 never heard of one. 
 
 Q. Is there any other foreign tongue in which New Jersey has 
 been printing these documents? A. Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Did either of the houses, during the session of 1895, order 
 any foreign printing ? A. The House ordered 5,000 copies of 
 Gevernor Werts' message printed in German. 
 
 Q. Where are those 5,000 copies of Governor Werts' message 
 in German now ? A. Down in the basement. 
 
 Q. Is the demand large for them ? J.. I guess not. 
 
 Q. They are all there ? A. They are all there. 
 
 Q. How long have they been there ? A. Ever since about the 
 middle of the session. 
 
 Q. Sometime in February, probably ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I hope our newspaper friends will let the people know we 
 have those for distribution. Now, I show you one of the smaller 
 reports, that is not done by contract, being the report of the 
 Commissioners to care for the Gettysburg, battle monuments, 
 1892. Look at that. I happen to know something about that, 
 because I wrote it myself, but I didn't know it was in print until 
 yesterday ; now, to give the Committee an idea, the cover is one 
 page? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is the inside of the cover another ? A. Not in this case. 
 
 Q. The title page is a page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that blank page a page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What is the use of their taking 
 pay for what they don't do? A. The compositor has to mai« 
 up that blank page ; a blank form has to be put in and filled up 
 with plugs. 
 
 Q. That is one of the rules of the printers that other fellows 
 don't know until they find out; now there is a picture of Gen- 
 
CHARLES BECHTEL. 499 
 
 eral Torbet; is anything charged for the composition of that 
 page? A. I should judge not, 
 
 Q. What is charged for the press work of that page ? A. The 
 number of copies? 
 
 §. No, but do you charge for printing that page the same as 
 you would another ? A. Certainly. 
 
 §. Is the press work on that page as much as it would be on 
 a printed page 1 A, Yes, sir ; except that is probably printed 
 separate. 
 
 <2. It is charged at a higher rate ? A. No, I think not ; I 
 think the press work is the same. 
 
 Q. How, then, is that page charged for ? A. The same as 
 the other matter. 
 
 Q. Any composition ? A. No, sir ; I think not. 
 
 Q. What do they charge for the plate? A. That is furnished. 
 
 §. I understood yoa to say the other day that there was a rate 
 for charging for that kind of work 16 times as much as a printed 
 page ? A. That is only one page. 
 
 Q. That is as much, then, as 16 of the. others ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There is a letter transmitting the report ? A. iTes, sir. 
 
 O,. That is what they call pretty " fat " ? A. That is " fat." 
 
 Q. That one is blank; that is " fatter " yet ? A. That is fat, 
 
 Q. That is so " fat " there is nothing but " fat " ; now, this 
 page is what you call double leaded? A. No, sir; only about 
 four to pica leads. 
 
 Q. And this picture also 16 pages? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q, How about those backs of those pictures, do they count for 
 pages ? A. No, sir. 
 
 (2. This page that has a little story in the middle of it, is that 
 a page ? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. That page is 16 pages more ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. And that is a page ? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. And that is 16 pages, and this one, more ? A. That has 
 something on the back, that other one. 
 
 §. And that is a page, with those four lines ; A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. And that is another page, and that is 16 more ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And that is 16 more, and that is 16? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that is a page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that is a page, and that is 16? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The price for printing the picture is 16 times as much as 
 printing a page here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. These are each p^ges ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who owns these plates ? A. The State. 
 
500 CHARLES BECHTEL. 
 
 Q. And I see some of this plate work is used again and again 
 by the State ; where are these plates kept ? A. The Comptroller 
 has charge of them. 
 
 Q. These plates, I see, were plates which were made and first 
 used by the State several years ago in another report ? A. In 
 the Gettysburg Commission. 
 
 Q. And the printer, then, gets them from the State and prints 
 them in these volumes ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who decides that that shall be done ? A. The man fur- 
 nishing the copy. 
 
 Q. And in that way they get up this nice little book at a cost 
 of $300 which was done on four sheets of typewriting paper ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Does that come in under contract work ; the Comptrolleir 
 does it, does he not? A. I don't know who ordered that, sir. 
 
 Q. But when the committee doesn't order it — when it is not 
 done by contract — the Comptroller does it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — When was that printed ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In 1893. I take this book simply to 
 illustrate, not that I am commenting on this particular 
 job, but to illustrate the way printing is done when it is 
 not under contract. Here is a report that I am informed 
 by the Comptroller came in after the contracts were 
 given out — after the committee had had its meeting and 
 adjourned — and the Comptroller, in his discretion, 
 prints. The report of the Board of Arbitration is now 
 in the hands of the printers under a similar practice, 
 and you observe what is possible in the way of extrava- 
 gant printing. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Is that being printed, the arbitrar 
 tion matter ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir ; I meant to have referred to it 
 this morning. This report is one given out by the 
 Comptroller after the committee is gone. The price 
 which governed this is not that contract price at all; it 
 is a price which the printer sees fit to put upon the 
 printing, and, as Mr. Bechtel says, it is not submitted 
 to his supervision at all ; it is another thing entirely. I 
 am showing now the custom which prevails with regard 
 to the printing. One of the Senators asked me awhile 
 ago whether most of the printing was done by contract. 
 All that is done by contract is in the schedule called 
 " printing," but there is lots of this done that is not by 
 contract. These plates, he says, belong to the State, 
 
CHARLES BECHTEL. 501 
 
 and some one has thought it would embellish this book 
 to put them in. They have been taken from the State, 
 and, I suppose, only the press work was charged for ; 
 I don't know about that. 
 
 Chairman Voorbees — Are they really necessary to 
 illustrate that report ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Personally 1 should say not. The main 
 report of the Gettysburg Commission — it is quite a large 
 document — was printed several years ago, and 4,000 
 copies of it published, and, I believe, all circulated, and 
 that did contain pictures of these monuments as then 
 erected. This is simply a supplemental report of 
 another commission, appointed to take care of them and 
 to make some little betterment on some of them possi- 
 bly. The latter commission made a subsequent report, 
 and some one has seen fit to insert these pictures, and 
 print 4,000 copies more. I wasn't aware, although 
 chairman of that commission, that it had been even 
 printed ; didn't suppose it was of enough importance to 
 print. 
 
 I call your attention to a schedule I have prepared 
 with regard to the expense of translating. The State 
 paid for translating into German in the year 1888, 
 $2,841; in 1889, $2,391; in 1890, $2,743; in 1891, 
 $1,571; in 1892, $2,085; in 1893, $2,899, and in 1894 
 nothing was printed in German except the laws and the 
 Governor's message, the Committee having dropped the 
 other out. 
 Q. Is anything being done in Italian now? A. No, not that I 
 know of. 
 
 Q. Or in French? A. Wo, sir; not that I know of. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — What is the name of the inter- 
 preter ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The interpreter into German was Judge 
 Hoffman ; now it is Stahl. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Was Judge Hoffman at the same time 
 he translated these laws, judge ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — So that he drew two salaries at the 
 same time ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — One at night and the other in the day, I 
 suppose. 
 
 Senator Skirm — One salary in German and the other 
 in English. 
 
502 CHARLES BECHTEL. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have prepared a schedule showing the 
 printing which has been done in the last few years, 
 which I would like to submit to the Committee, which 
 must be added to the translation. In the year 1888 it 
 was the reports of the Board of Agriculture, Education, 
 Statistics of Labor, State Geologist, Board of Health, 
 Inspectors of Factories and Workshops, and, of course, 
 the laws and messages. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The translator comes from Hudson 
 county, I believe. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— Yes, sir. He got $2,200 or $2,300 a 
 year. In 1889 substantially the same are published in 
 the German language, $2,300 for translating ; in 1890, 
 about the same, and the translation of the year was 
 $2,743 : in 1891 a few laws were translated and the 
 translation dropped to $1,571;. in the year 1892, more 
 printing done, and the translation was $2,085 ; in the 
 year 1893 about the same, the translation was $2,399. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Then do I understand that the gen- 
 tleman who translated these laws was at the same time 
 judge of one of the courts in Hudson county ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir ; Judge Hoffman was formerly 
 the court interpreter in Hudson county, and I believe, 
 a very competent one; he was afterwards elevated to 
 the bench and became State interpreter as well, and he 
 has been for a number of years a judge in Hudson 
 county and the State interpreter. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Then he had a soft snap. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — He had good compensation ; the State 
 isn't mean about these matters at all. 
 
 To close this branch of inquiry I would state that the 
 figures show that for the German, leaving out the 
 Italian, the total cost of translating and printing in for- 
 eign languages is a matter running about $20,000 a 
 year, little less, for several years past up to 1894. Now 
 it is largely reduced, so that you see it constitutes one 
 quite serious item of the $200,000, which we have been 
 talking about — about one-tenth ; when you add the 
 Italian I should say it would be one-tenth of the whole 
 thing, fully that. 
 
 While on this subject I will call attention to the report 
 of the Board of Arbitration ; it wasn't here the other 
 day, but it is now. The report itself is the same that 
 was shown to us the other day and called a " preface ; " 
 
CHARLES BECHTEL. 503 
 
 that is all there is of it ; followiug that is a statement of 
 the different strikes, and the testimony taken through- 
 out the two years by the Board, with reference to strikes; 
 it is quite voluminous, and the printer had got as far as 
 the 80th page, when the Chairman of this Committee, I 
 believe, took away the copy, so that the printing could 
 not at present proceed. This is not included in the 
 contract for printing during the current year, and ac- 
 cordingly is simply sent to the printer by the Comptrol- 
 ler, but I understand the arrangement was made to 
 print it at the current contract rate, which is rather ex- 
 ceptional in respect to this kind of printing. Now the 
 newspaper clippings and accounts of the strikes are very, 
 considerable. 
 
 The account of these strikes, together with the news- 
 paper clippings, is followed by a number of letters to 
 the Board from distinguished citizens whose opinions 
 were asked, glorifying the Board and the general system 
 which they are exponents of, and those are all to be 
 printed here for the benefit of the people of the State ; 
 there is a large part of them towards the end, and it is 
 only fair to say that there are opinions here from some 
 very distinguished citizens of 'Sew Jersey; we have got 
 them on record, a good many of them, without refer- 
 ence to politics, race or previous condition. The blanks 
 issued by the Board are here also, and the laws of New 
 Jersey relative to the subject of arbitration; that would 
 seem to be rather unnecessary, the reprinting of the 
 laws here, as they are printed so freely by the State 
 elsewhere. These are the opinions of the distinguished 
 citizens, Lyman Abbott, William McAdoo, Erastus 
 Cleveland, Thomas Dunn English, Thomas 8. Henry, 
 James Smith, Jr., Garret A. Hobart, Peter F. Wanser 
 and others too numerous, though not too modest, to 
 mention ; and there is a very large matter of newspaper 
 clipping which follows this report. I simply draw atten- 
 tion to this report — not to ridicule it at all^ but that you 
 may see what it is. The report itself is brief and well 
 enough, but it is followed by a mass of material which 
 you can get in the newspaper : that is about the amount 
 of it. I have drawn attention to this report simply to 
 direct the Committe's attention to the place where the 
 abuse comes in. 
 
504 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Bon't it appear that during th& 
 pendency of this dynasty that the worst strikers in th& 
 State were the Board itself? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is a matter of judgment ; I wouldn't 
 like to express an opinion without further thought. 
 
 Senator Skirm — They seem to be great strikers for 
 the treasury. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The committee will doubtless want to 
 report on this matter of printing. If these reports^ 
 properly so-called, and abbreviated, were printed and 
 regulated in one volume as the law says, they would be 
 of very great use and would be wanted by the people 
 of the State, but the thing has come to such a pass that 
 to put them together makes five huge volumes of rubbish 
 that nobody will have them in the house because the 
 houses in New Jersey are not large enough, and there 
 is such a multiplication of useless matter that the really 
 valuable material in them is difficult to be found. There 
 are several valuable reports printed. This arbitration 
 matter, with a properly drawn report, would be of inter- 
 est to very many people in the State, and it does seem 
 to me that with this illustration before the eyes of the 
 Committee that they can draft a bill which will provide 
 for a rule of printing and circulation of the reports 
 properly, the reports on everything that you see fit to 
 make, so that they will become much more valuable,^ 
 and people will take them and read them, and they will 
 be circulated and the State will be saved vast sums of 
 money which appears to me to be wasted now. 
 Q. What do you think about it Mr. Bechtel, you have been 30 
 
 years at it, speaking as an individual and not as a printer? A^ 
 
 I am a printer. 
 
 Q. Laying aside your character as a printer, don't you think a 
 
 good deal of money could be saved here and the reports made 
 
 more useful? A. Undoubtedly there is a good deal of rubbish 
 
 printed. 
 
 Otto H. Heinz, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In connection with this subject of print- 
 ing in German, I desire to call the attention of the Com- 
 mittee to a number of items of printing by Otto H. 
 Heinz ; the Heinz Printing Company, who succeeded, 
 apparently, to his business, and the Heinz Litho- 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 505 
 
 Printing Company, which succeeded again to that ; 
 printing done for the State, chiefly in the years 1891, 
 1892, 1893, and amounting to $12,237. 
 Q. Mr. Heinz, you are the Otto H. Heinz who did some print- 
 ing ior the State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you reside in Newark? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q, Afterwards you formed a company to do your printing, did 
 you not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was the name of the first one you formed? J.. Heinz 
 Printing Company. 
 
 Q. That was formed, if my notes are right, December 20th, 
 1890; isn't that right? ^. I think so. 
 
 Q. Mr. Charles Trefz and yourself and Frederick "W. Leonard 
 formed that, did you not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Afterwards you formed aijother company which succeeded 
 that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In February, 1893 ? A. The first went into liquidation. 
 Q. February, 1893, and Gottlieb Frank and Henry Campton 
 formed another company ? ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that was known as the Heinz Litho Printing Com- 
 pany ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your printing business, I suppose, went right on con- 
 tinuously, first in your own name, afterwards in the name of 
 these corporations ? A. No; it didn't. 
 
 Q. Didn't they take your business? A. No, sir. 
 Q. What became of your old business ? A. The old business 
 was taken in partly by the company and partly was sold to other 
 parties, and between the Heinz Printing Company and the 
 Heinz Litho-Printing Company there was a standstill of probably 
 two or three months. 
 
 Q. Where was your business done when you were doing it in 
 your own name in 1890 ? A. 863 Market street. 
 Q. Are you still there ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was the Heinz Printing Company there ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Where did they go ? A. 198 to 195 Halsey street. 
 Q. And are you still there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. You first printed for the State 3,000 copies of the Grov- 
 ernor's message in the winter of 1890, and 1,000 copies of 
 Governor Abbett's inaugural, did you not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And rendered a bill of some $343 to the State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Is this your bill ? A. It is. 
 
 Q. That work was ordered by members of the Assembly, was 
 it not? A. I think it was by resolution of the House. 
 
506 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. And next, in the year 1890, you printed also by resolution 
 of the House, 3,000 copies of Assembly bill 486 in German, the 
 election law ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was that bill for that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was done under resolution of the House, page 52 of 
 the Minutes, by Mr. Marsh: " Resolved, that 3,000 copies of the 
 Governor's message be printed in the German language by 
 Charles H. Schmidt, of the ' Elizabeth Freie Press,' and 3,000 
 by Otto H. Heinz, of the ' Newark Volksblat,' to be paid at the 
 same rate as heretofore adopted." Did you have it translated ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And did he have it translated ? J.. I don't know. 
 
 Q. You didn't furnish him any translation ? I^o. 
 
 Q. Then he must have got it translated for himself? A. I 
 suppose so. 
 
 Q. And you put in a bill for translation, of course, $43.20? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who translated it for you ? A. 1 couldn't say, but I think 
 Mr. Busman, of one of the local papers there. 
 
 Q. And that election law cost |248. And you acted also under 
 this resolution of Mr. Trefz, page 180 of the Minutes : "Resolved, 
 that 1,000 copies of the Governor's Inaugural message be printed 
 in the German language by the following : ' l^ew Jersey Deut- 
 cher Zeitung,' ' Elizabeth Freie Press ' and Newark Volksblat.' " 
 The same resolution, page 391, was by Mr. Marsh amended so 
 as to read " to be printed in each of the following, a thousand 
 copies by each." You had that translated also ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And your friends who print the other two papers I sup- 
 pose had theirs translated ? J.. I can't speak for them. 
 
 Q. You didn't translate for them ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Nor they didn't furnish it to you? 
 A. No, sir ; my report was here, I know, ahead of time. 
 
 Q. The State was in funds at that time and paid promptly ? 
 A. They never let me wait any length of time except towards 
 the last, when they were out of funds, as they said. 
 
 Q. Now, your company was organized December Ist, 1890; I 
 show you a bill of August 31st, 1891, for printing the State 
 Geological report in German $1,477.05, do you remember that ? 
 A. yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That seems to have been paid September Ist, 1891 ; you 
 were the secretary of the Heinz Printing Company at that time, 
 weren't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that was paid to the Heinz Printing Company, who 
 were then doing the printing business? A. Yes, sir. 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 507 
 
 Q. I asked you to bring the bank book and pass book and 
 checks of the Heinz Printing Company; have you got them? 
 A. What date is that, please. 
 
 Q. September, 1891 ; find the check book ? A. Here is Sep- 
 tember, 1891, but it is not — 
 
 Q. That covers up the dates on the stubs, does it not ? A, It 
 doesn't cover up anything to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. This stub book appears to have been used as a scrap book 
 and you have posted pictures of people herein which cover up 
 what was written upon the stubs? No, sir; not for that purpose. 
 
 Q. N"o, not for that purpose, but it has that efiect. A. It looks 
 so, yes, sir ; it is easy to get at by taking them ofl. 
 
 Q. The book is now an illustrated volume? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Could you easy distinguish individuals whose portraits we 
 see in this book ? J.. I could't tell you. 
 
 Q. What are these pictures ; what is the purpose of keeping 
 them in this form? A. This is the book of the foreman of the 
 job room ; he simply took the proof of all the plates in our posses- 
 sion and pasted them in here. 
 
 A. These are cuts, are they not ? A. Yea', sir. 
 
 Q. And if you wish to order a plate to make a picture in your 
 newspaper, you order by these cuts ? A. Well, it is a reference 
 to the foreman to know what cuts he has and where they are. 
 
 Q. So that if you desired to publish a picture of Senator Ketch- 
 am to-morrow morning, you would select here the one which 
 looks most like him and cut it out, for instance this No. 535 
 would do for General Grubb, would it not ? A. Probably it is. 
 Senator Skirm — This may be a laughable matter, but 
 do I understand this has simply been used for this pur- 
 pose and the stubs covered up ? It seems to me there 
 is no end to the expedients of the people who furnish 
 the State ; either men die or bookkeepers run away 
 and they destroy their books ; now this is the latest. 
 
 Q. When were these pictures pasted in this book over these 
 checks? A. Probably two years ago ; the gentleman that served 
 me with the subpoena — I went to look up the books that I was 
 called to bring, and he had a subpoena for Mr. Frank, and I told 
 him he was out and would be in, and I showed him this book. 
 
 Q. Who did this ? A. Our foreman, I suppose. 
 
 Q. What is his name ? A. Geiger. 
 
 Q. Why did you allow him to do such an extraordinary thing 
 as to cover up all these stubs in this way ? A. The company 
 was wound up and paid lOO cents on the dollar; there was no 
 good to keep it any further. 
 
508 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. That was the old company ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "What was the reason of dissolving the Heinz Printing 
 Company and forming the Litho.-Heinz Printing Co. ? A. Be- 
 cause Mr. Trefz retired from it. 
 
 Q. It was upon the occasion of his retirement ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You say this check book had these checks all returned — 
 the paid checks all returned to it and pasted in as I see them in 
 your present company's book ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And they have since been cut out and these pictures put 
 in ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What has been done with the checks ? J.. I suppose they 
 went in the waste basket or the junk shop. 
 
 Q. Were the checks thrown away ? A. Yes, sir ; and if that 
 book was full we would probably take this. 
 
 Q. That check book which has pictures in comes up to March, 
 1891, and you say you suppose those pictures were put in two 
 years ago ? A. Well, starting from that time up to the present 
 time. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It goes to November 16, 1891. 
 
 Q. Aren't those checks filed away in your office somewhere ? 
 A. As I said before, because the company was out of existence. 
 
 Q. Aren't those checks in existence in your office somewhere ? 
 A. JSTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you the cash book here of the Heinz Printing Com- 
 pany? A. It don't seem to be here. 
 
 Q. Where is that ? A. That must be in the office ; he brought 
 all he could carry. 
 
 Q. Those are the present company's books? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you use the same books ? A. It seems they are carried 
 on. 
 
 Q. This sales book which you have produced begins in Novem- 
 ber, 1891 ; that must have been the old company, wasn't it ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you have continued to use it since the new company 
 was formed? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And it is used up to date? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, where is your cash book? ^1. That is not here. 
 
 Q. Is it in your office 1 A. 1 suppose it is. 
 
 Q. And that was the same book of the old company continued 
 on, was it? A. Well, that is what I can't say; it is much 
 smaller, and it may be a new one. 
 
 Q. Can you bring us the cash books of the former and present 
 company t A. 1 think so. 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 509, 
 
 Q. And can you bring us the ledger and sales book of the 
 former? A. You have the ledger and sales book. 
 
 Q. No, this is 1892, the same as your sales book ; do you enter 
 the State jobs in the sales book? A. I think so. 
 
 Q. Who keeps your books ? A. Bookkeeper. 
 
 Q. Who is he ? A. At present we have none. 
 
 Q. Who was your last bookkeeper? A. A man named Graps. 
 
 Q. When did he leave ? A. He hasn't left yet. 
 
 Q. How long have you been without a bookkeeper? A. We 
 haven't been without a bookkeeper yet ; we will be from Monday 
 on ; I suppose we can get a new one. 
 
 Q. Does your treasurer, Mr. Frank, ever keep the books? A. 
 No, sir ; the same man that started the books is keeping it to-day. 
 
 Q. Under the old company as well as the new? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To refer back again to the bill I have in my hand, August 
 31st, 1891, to the Heinz Printing Company, Mr. Tretz was your 
 president and treasurer at that time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was that Assemblyman Trefz? A. I think he had the 
 position then ; I don't know. 
 
 Q. The one who was at one time Assemblyman ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you were secretary and superintendent ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What part did he take in the business? A. Well, he didn't 
 take any active interest in it; simply signed checks — that is 
 about all. 
 
 Q. Did he come to the office every day? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. How often ? A. About two or three times a week. 
 
 Q. Did you send the checks to him to be signed, or did he 
 sign them in your office ? A. He signed them in the office. 
 
 Q. Do checks have to be signed by him before they can be 
 paid ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you a check book showing how checks were drawn 
 at that time ? A. (Witness produced book.) 
 
 Q. Was anybody else authorized to draw out money except 
 Mr. Treftz, the treasurer? A. From the company; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Who had authority to endorse for the company? A. Well, 
 myself and Mr. Trefz. 
 
 Q. Endorse notes? A. No, not notes, but checks for deposit 
 or cashing. 
 
 Q. He was the financial man who drew out the money ? A. 
 Yes. 
 
 Q. But you or he could endorse for deposit? A. Or cashing. 
 
 Q. Was there any by-law to that effect? A. I suppose so; I 
 don't know. 
 
51U OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. Or cashing purposes? A. Well, I show you the check 
 which paid this bill $1,477, dated September Ist, 1891, to the 
 Heinz Printing Company, endorsed Heinz Printing Company, 
 Otto H. Heinz, Secretary ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And below that Charles C. Engle ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who is Charles C. Engle ? He is the keeper of a res- 
 taurant here in Trenton. 
 
 Q. After that check was endorsed by you and Mr. Engle it 
 was cashed here at the counter of the Mechanic's Bank? A. So 
 it appears. 
 
 "Why didn't you turn it in to the company ? J.. I owed Mr. 
 Engle some money. 
 
 Q. What business had you to use the money of this corpora- 
 tion to pay that? A. I was entitled to it. 
 
 Q. Did you enter this in the cash book of your company ? 
 A. Yes. 
 
 Q. That is the cash book that is home ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Will you bring that ? A. Yes, sir ; any time. 
 
 Q. Did you owe him just that amount? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where did you give that to Engle ? A. In his place. 
 
 Q. That is here? A. In Greene street, I believe. 
 
 Q. How much did you owe Engle? A. That is what I couldn't 
 tell you, $30 or $40 or $50. 
 
 Q. So, to pay him $30 or $40 or $50 you turned over to him 
 a check for $1,477; did he give you the balance ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How did he give it to you? A. Maybe in money and 
 maybe check. 
 
 Q. How was it ? A. He went to the bank and got it cashed. 
 
 Q. You went to the bank ? A. He did. 
 
 Q. Where were you while he went to the bank ? A. At his 
 place. 
 
 Q. How much did he hand you ? A. That is what I can't say, 
 I say between $30 and $40 I paid him ; maybe a little more, I 
 don't know ; whatever I owed him. 
 
 Q. Here was a check for nearly $1,500 from the State to this 
 corporation of which you were secretary, and whose funds you 
 had no power to draw, and you got that check cashed here in 
 Trenton, and did not put it through the books of your corpora- 
 tion ? A. 1 stated to you before I had power to cash checks. 
 
 Q. I have not said to the contrary, I said " you had not power 
 to draw." A. I didn't draw it. 
 
 Q. But you took this check of nearly $1,500, and, because you 
 owed Engle $30, you got it cashed here in Trenton? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 511 
 
 Q. What did you do with the rest of the money 1 A. 1 sup- 
 pose it was deposited. 
 
 Q. Do you remember anything about it? A. 1 do not, I had 
 a good many checks. 
 
 Q. If you don't remember you needn't look at the books, 
 because I want your memory about it; that left you about 
 $1,430 in your pocket? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In money ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He didn't give you his check ? J. I don't think he did ; 
 I think he gave me cash money. 
 
 Q. What did you do with the cash money ? J.. I took it 
 down to Newark and deposited it. 
 
 . Sure you didn't leave some in Trenton? A. No, except 
 what I paid him. 
 
 Q. Not a cent more? A. Unless I took a drink some other 
 place. 
 
 Q. What did you get that check cashed for here? A. As I 
 told you, to pay that man. 
 
 Q. Didn't Mr. Trefz object to that performance ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you tell him of it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. After you had been down to Engle's saloon and paid him 
 $30 and put $1,400 in your pocket, how soon did you go home ? 
 A. I took the next train. 
 
 Q. The same day ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What time of day was it? A. Generally in the afternoon. 
 
 Q. No, but this time 1 A. I don't understand. 
 
 Q. You say you remember going down there and getting this 
 check cashed ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And paying him $30 or $40 you owed him and taking the 
 rest to Newark? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What time of day was it ? A. In the afternoon. 
 
 Q. And you went right home ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who was along with you besides Engle ? A. He didn't 
 go home with me ; I went alone. 
 
 Q, JSTo, but when you went down to Engle's place, who was 
 with you ? ^. I don't know who they were. 
 
 Q. Did you go up to the bank with him to get the money ? 
 A. 1 don't think I did. 
 
 Q. Did anybody go down to Engle's place with you from the 
 house here ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who handed you the State's draft for the money? A. 
 Either Mr. Heppenheimer or Mr. Gray, either in the Comptrol- 
 ler's office, or — 
 
512 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. Did you endorse it here or down there? A. Down there. 
 
 Q. And handed it to Engle ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you go up to the bank with him or stay in the saloon ? 
 A. I stayed in the saloon. 
 
 Q. I would like to have you bring the cash book for that date. 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the journal and ledger, if you have one? A. You 
 have the ledger here, I think. 
 
 Q. Well, let's see your ledger ; is there an account here with 
 the State ? J.. I think there is. 
 
 Q. Under what name? A. State of New Jersey. 
 
 Q. The first credit in this book is November 25, 1891 ; that is 
 too late for my purposes ; you must have a ledger before this, 
 haven't you 1 A. I don't know when this was started. 
 
 Q. I show you a bill of November 17, 1891, for printing a 
 thousand copies of the Agricultural report in German, $1,451.10 ; 
 that is from your company also? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, that one you deposited in your bank, didn't you ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is the way you generally do business? A. Well, I 
 think I had two or three checks cashed here. 
 
 Q. Your next bill was in May, 1892, for printing a thousand 
 copies of the report of the Inspector of Factories iand Work- 
 shops, $499.18 ; that you endorsed and deposited in your bank, 
 didn't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And your bookkeeper, Graps, endorsed that for deposit? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You have a stamp in your corporation such as is shown on 
 the back of this check? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. " For deposit in the State Banking Company to the credit 
 
 of The Heinz Printing Company, per ," and then you or the 
 
 bookkeeper or anybody about the office puts his name there and 
 deposits it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is the ordinary way that business houses do business ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you had orderly, good methods in your office, hadn't 
 you ; I see your books are in fine shape. What in the world did 
 you cash a check in Trenton of $1,400 for ? ^. I cashed some 
 of these and went directly to Philadelphia or New York. 
 
 Q. I see you did, but why did you do it? A. I was in need 
 of money. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you draw a check on the bank and get it? A. 
 Check from here ? 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 513 
 
 Q. Yes? A. I couldn't draw a check from here on a Newark 
 bank. 
 
 Q. Did you ever try ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. I have drawn tiiem a thousand miles from home? A, I 
 didn't. 
 
 Q. Your next bill was in July, 1892, |917.70, for printing a 
 thousand copies of the report of the State Board of Health ; I 
 show you a check for that; you endorsed that "The Heinz 
 Printing Company, by Otto H. Heinz, Secretary," and took it 
 down to Engle's saloon, didn't you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you get the money on that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where did Engle get the money ? A. In his bank. 
 
 Q. Where were you when he went up to the bank ? A. Down 
 in his place. 
 
 Q. You didn't go up to the bank with him ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Same thing over again? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What use did you have for $917 that day ? A. Well, prob- 
 ably there was a bill payable in New York. 
 
 Q. Probably a thousand things might have happened, but I 
 want to know what you got that money for ? A. To have the 
 <3ash. 
 
 Q. What did you want that $917 for in Trenton ? A. I went 
 right home ; I didn't stay here. 
 
 Q. What did you want it for, more reason you should have 
 taken the check home ? A. I more than likely went to New 
 York to purchase something. 
 
 Q. When bills of this kind were paid you always came to 
 Trenton to get the money, didn't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You took the check home with you or else the money ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you go down to that saloon and get 900 and odd 
 dollars in money instead of taking it right home in your pocket 
 when you say yourself that you went right home '2 A. 1 prob- 
 ably went to New York ; you see I could use the money, I 
 couldn't use any checks, 
 
 Q. You went through Newark to get to New York? A. Yes, 
 sir ; when I passed Newark the banks would be closed. 
 
 Q. You left Newark in the morning, didn't you, to come down 
 here to Trenton ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To get this money ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And knowing that you were going to New York ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. If you wanted a little money in New York why didn't you 
 get it in Newark before you started ? A. Probably didn't have it. 
 
 33 SH 
 
514 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. "What business had you to take the Heinz Printing Com- 
 pany money for that purpose from Engle ? J.. I think I had just 
 as much right to take it from him as anybody else, when he is a 
 merchant. 
 
 Q. Yes, but here you took these checks to him on this first 
 occasion, and on this occasion I want to know what you wanted 
 that money for ? ^. As I told you, to buy something. 
 
 Q. You went to l^ew York that day ; who did you meet when 
 you got there? A. I don't know who I met, but I may have 
 met — 
 
 Q. Your memory is all right and quite sharp on the time of 
 day you got this money and until you got down to Engle's and 
 got the money and put it in your pocket. I want to know what 
 you did with that money. Did you meet somebody in New York 1 
 A. JSTo, sir. 
 
 Q. How much of that $900 did you have when you got home ? 
 A. I had most all of it, I suppose. 
 
 Q. Most ; do you remember ; do you remember what the occa- 
 sion was for your having |917 for going to New York ? A. One 
 occasion I was to buy some lithographic stone over there that 
 was for sale at a lithographic house that had gone under. 
 
 Q. Does your corporation, in buying such things, pay cash ? 
 A. Such sales is made for cash. 
 
 Q. Isn't a check cash ? This is kept with the greatest care. 
 Look at your book here ; why, when you came to Trenton to get 
 a thousand dollars or two, did you have to have it in bills ? That 
 was not to pay tor lithographic stone, your memory is playing 
 you false in that respect? A. No, sir; not at all. 
 
 Q. Did you meet anybody from New Jersey after you got over 
 there? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did not? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Clear about that? A. Clear about that. 
 
 Q. Who did you meet? A. Nobody that I know. 
 
 Q. Might he not have been some Jerseyman, then? A. I 
 didn't pay particular attention. 
 
 Q. On the first occasion when you drew §1,477 down at the 
 saloon, did you go to New York ? J.. I may have gone to New 
 York or I may have gone straight home. 
 
 Q. Do you remember which ? A. I think I went straight 
 home. 
 
 Q. But at the time when jou got the $917 you remember that 
 you went to New York? A. I think I went to New York. 
 
 Q. When you got to New York, where did you go ? .4. To a 
 paper warehouse or lithographic auction. 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ, 516 
 
 Q. You went to one of those two places? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you pay any of the money out ? A. Small sums ; I 
 didn't buy much. 
 
 Q. About how much did you buy? A. Well, in the neighbor- 
 hood of 160 or 170. 
 
 Q. Yet you loaded up with nearly a thousand dollars cash ? 
 A. I was loaded up with more than that. 
 
 Q. If you were loaded up with more than that what was the 
 occasion of loading up with this additional thousand ? A. Not 
 on that occasion. 
 
 Q. Now on that occasion how much were you loaded up with? 
 A. What I received from the State. 
 
 Q. You had some in your pocket before you started ? A. Not 
 much, $10. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to tell us soberly that you had that $900 
 check cashed for the purpose of having money in your pocket to 
 pay $60 in New York ? J.. I didn't know what amount I would 
 buy. 
 
 Q. Well, you had it most all yet when you got home. After 
 you got home what did you do with the rest of it that was left ? 
 A. It was deposited. 
 
 Q. I guess not, if this book is your pass book ; you made no 
 deposit here between July 27 and October 4 ? A. Well then, the 
 money was all paid out. 
 
 Q. Well now, was it $60 you paid out for these lithograph 
 stones or was it the whole $917 ? ^. I couldn't say anything at 
 all about it ; if it shows no deposit there, that money was used 
 for purchasing things that we were in need of; probably paying 
 a note that was due. 
 
 Q. Paying a note that was due and purchasing things and pay- 
 ing money out of your pocket? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was the object, then, of drawing this multitude of 
 checks here that are preserved with such care; turn to that same 
 date, about the 9th of August, 1892 ; have you got another check 
 book here ? A. That is early, I think, 1891. 
 
 Q. Neither one of these covers that period; they are both 
 prior, but you seem to have drawn a great many checks, Mr. 
 Heinz ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. A multitude of checks ; many in one day ; all of which 
 are preserved; why doesn't this money, $917, from the State, 
 appear on the deposits of your deposit book, or in these books ? 
 A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— There must be a reason ; you made 
 
516 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 your deposits regularly, did you not, of the money that you re- 
 ceived ? A. Well, I turned it over to the bookkeeper. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Yes, but this is your bookkeeper; 
 either your bookkeeper, partner or secretary ; don't they deposit 
 the money that you receive ? A. They should have. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — No, I asked you the question whether 
 they don't. A. I don't know ; the books show they didn't. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Your memory seems to be good on 
 other points. 
 
 Q. You say if it doesn't appear deposited here, then you must 
 have spent it all over in New York? A. Paid it out; I didn't 
 spend it. 
 
 Q. Do you think, thon, instead of spending S60, as you first 
 stated, you might have spent a good deal more? A. Yes, sir; 
 probably the books show what was done with that. 
 
 Q. What would you suggest that I look at here to find out? 
 A. Some item- around that date; here is the |917 credited. 
 
 Q. Yes, but I don't see it in your cash ; it isn't in your cash, 
 as far as you have produced any yet. A. Probably Mr. Trefz 
 took the money. 
 
 Q. No ; was Trefz down here at Engle's with you ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, you got the money from Engle? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you are sure you went to New York that day ? ^. I 
 did. 
 
 Q. And you spent there |60 or $900, you can't remember 
 which, at the lithographers ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why do you say then that Trefz got it ? A. When I come 
 home in the evening, then the office was closed, and probably in 
 the morning he took it and deposited it in his own account ; it 
 must be in his account; it may be in his account; probably he 
 made a loan in advance. 
 
 Q. These books that you have produced, appear to be in per- 
 fect order ; your check book is kept in the finest order ; every- 
 thing here, even small bills paid by checks ; everything in per- 
 fect shape ; do you mean to suggest seriously to us, with regard 
 to the State House moneys, that you did such unbusiness like 
 things as that — that you got the money out of this saloon and 
 went to New York and spent either $60 or $900, and handed the 
 rest to another ofhcer of the company ? A. Let me see that. 
 
 Q. Don't you think it unlikely that you were so unbusiness- 
 like with regard to this State money when you were so methodi- 
 cal with everything else ? A. The cash book must show ; I don't 
 know. You may have it to-morrow morning ; I am sorry it 
 didn't come up along. 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 517 
 
 Q. That is the bill (showing witness bill). What have you to 
 Bay, after looking at it? A. 1 can't get anything out of it — 
 where it went. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Is it likely that you should receive 
 that much money without knowing what you did with it? A. 
 Well, the cash book will have to tell. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But your memory seems to be so very 
 plain and explicit about getting money and paying Mr. Engle 
 $30 or $40 ; don't you know what you did with the money that 
 doesn't appear on your books ? A. It isn't stated here; it doesn't 
 appear on our books. 
 
 Q. That bill is 35 cents a thousand ems ? A. Yes, the one we 
 lost money on. 
 
 Q. I show you your bill of $185.46 for printing the State Board 
 of Taxation report in German ; this is March, 1892 ; look at that, 
 that is a little one. A. Yes, sir, 35 cents; it is all entered here 
 in the book. 
 
 Q. Now, that check, you came down and got that check, too ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That you deposited in the bank all right ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Gave it to the bookkeeper and he put his name on the 
 back? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now I show you one dated February 28th, 1898, for $2,750 
 which was paid to you by virtue of an act of the Legislature ; you 
 remember that? A. I don't know. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will state to the Committee that in the 
 session of 1892 a resolution was passed by the House of 
 Assembly awarding to this printing company the print- 
 ing of a number of documents, involving quite a large 
 sum of money— I think, probably, $8,000 to $12,000, if 
 that had all been printed. The next year, in 1893, the 
 the bill came in for the work, but in the meantime, I 
 believe, the Comptroller had stopped the work ; only 
 part of it was done, and a bill was introduced in the 
 House of Assembly for the relief of the Heinz Printing 
 Company, reciting that they had, under that House 
 resolution, which was probably not a sufficient warrant 
 in law for the printing, had gone on in good faith and 
 done some printing and had delivered some agricultural 
 reports, and had spent at least $4,000 in money in the 
 prosecution of their work, and awarded them $4,000 to 
 be paid by the Comptroller in settlement of the whole 
 thing. In the Senate that bill was amended, cutting 
 the amount down to $2,750; the bill was passed and 
 
518 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 approved by the Governor February 28th, 1893. On 
 the same day, Mr. Heinz presented a copy ot the bill to 
 the Comptroller, together with a certificate from Mr. 
 B. J. Ford that a thousand copies of the Board of Agri- 
 cultural report had been received and an affidavit by 
 Mr. Heinz that he had spent on this work at least 
 |4,000 ; and then a bill made out by the Comptroller, I 
 think, and sworn to by Mr. Heinz, and on that the 
 Comptroller gave him his warrant and he got the check 
 that day. 
 Q. You were here that day, of course, when that bill was 
 passed ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who was here with you? A. Mr. McDermitt, I believe. 
 §. Here is the check that the State gave you ; that is your 
 writing on the back of it, your signature ? A. That is my sig- 
 nature, it isn't my writing. 
 
 Q. Pay to the order of Frank M. McDermitt, Heinz Printing 
 Company, Otto H. Heinz, Secretary, "Frank M. McDermitt" 
 over State Banking Company ; Mr. McDermitt was here with 
 you, you say ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Getting the bill through ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And you immediately endorsed the check and handed it 
 over to Mr. McDermitt ? A. N"o, sir. 
 
 Q. When did you hand it over to him ? ^. I never saw the 
 check until the next day. 
 
 Q_. Did he get it and bring it to you ? A. He didn't bring it 
 to me, no, sir ; I saw him at his office. 
 
 Q. He had the check in his possession ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. He wrote the endorsement and you signed it? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Well, that belonged to the Heinz Printing Company ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you deposit that in the bank? A. I didn't 
 have possession of it. 
 
 Q. You didn't get possession of it, then ? A. No, sir. 
 ^. Do you mean to say that J^Ir. McDermitt declined to give 
 you possession of it ? A. Well, he didn't say that in so many 
 words. 
 
 (2- He looked that, did he ? A. \ only saw the back of the 
 check, anyhow. 
 
 Q. McDermitt wrote the sentence here 1 A. \ suppose so. 
 §. And he hung onto this corner and you signed it, is that it? 
 A. That is about the size of it. 
 
 Q. Why should he want a check for $2,760? A. He said he 
 was going to get it cashed and take his fee out of it. 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 519 
 
 Q. Fee for getting the bill through ? A. Counsel fee. 
 Q. How long did it take him to get the bill through ? A. 
 Well, I don't know when he introduced it. 
 
 Q. Maybe I can refresh your memory on that ? A. Early in 
 the session, I think, he claimed to have been down here. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do I understand that McDermitt got 
 the check for the full amount for his services ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — He had hold of one corner, the evidence 
 is, and Mr. Heinz wrote on it. 
 Witness — He wouldn't let go. 
 Q. McDermitt had hold of the strong corner of the check, 
 and he wouldn't let go, and it didn't get to Heinz. Mr. Mc- 
 Dermitt will explain it, I have no doubt. Did he take his fee 
 out? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he give you the rest ? A. He did. 
 Q. In cash, as usual ? A. In cash. 
 
 Q. I don't suppose you have any memory on the subject as to 
 how much you got out of it? .4. It was very little; I know 
 that. 
 
 Q. Did you get as much as the odd $750 ? ^. It may be pos- 
 sible. 
 
 Q. Do you remember ? ^. I think so. 
 Q. You think you got $760 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. What did he give you out of it ? A. Well, I am not cer- 
 tain. 
 
 Q. Well, give us your memory? A. I don't know whether I 
 have the receipt or not, to that eflect. 
 Q. Have you got the receipt here ? 
 
 Mr. McDermitt— I think he got $600 or $700. 
 Q. I see you credited the State here with $655 ; did you get 
 out of your credit to the State of New Jersey with that? A. 
 Yes; that is it. 
 
 Q. Then Mr. McDermitt got the $2,045 and you got the $655 ? 
 A. Whatever it was. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand that for a bill the 
 State paid of $2,750 that this gentleman got only $655 
 of it and the balance went to lawyers and the gentle- 
 men who got the bill through the Legislature ? Do I 
 understand that? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — You understand that Mr. McDermitt is a 
 counselor-at-law and had a bill against this corporation ; 
 he naturally and properly, after he had gotten the bill 
 through, got the check through, but the check didn't 
 get through his hands ; they were in liquidation, and 
 
520 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 their relations with Mr. McDermitt were such as he will 
 explain, and he deducted whatever he did deduct. 
 Witness — Whatever he thought was right. 
 Mr. Corbin — And which I do not say was not right. 
 The company got |655. 
 
 Mr. McDermit — I think they were in luck. 
 
 Q. ITow, I show you another bill for $1,240, for which you got 
 a check on March 28, 1893; that is the bill, isn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You recognize your handwriting on the back? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. "Heinz Printing Company, Otto H. Heinz, Secretary; 
 Heinz Litho Printing Company, Otto H. Heinz, President; 
 Gottlieb Frank, Treasurer, for collection account of Essex 
 County JSTational Bank, Newark, T. W. Crooks, cashier." That 
 you deposited, didn't you? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. Look and see if you can tell what became of that ; that you 
 deposited in the account of the new company? A. Yes. 
 
 Q. Did the assets of the old company go over to the new? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And this bill of the old company was assigned to the new ? 
 A. I suppose the majorityof the work was done by the new com- 
 pany — probably all. 
 
 q. I show you your bill for $2,768.08, September, 1893, for 
 printing report of Board of Education? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You got paid for that? A. Yes, sir; there is the item in 
 the ledger. 
 
 Q. Well, that one you endorsed with the name of both com- 
 panies, did you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And put it through your bank? A. Yes, sir; I wanted 
 to cash that right here in Trenton, and I couldn't get it. 
 
 Q. What did you want money in Trenton for A. I wanted 
 the money, and there was no money in Newark. 
 
 Q. You could get credit ? A. No, sir ; not even credit ; there 
 was more money in Trenton. 
 
 A. You mean to tell me that in September, 1893, the State's 
 check was not good? A. Yes; but I couldn't cash the State's 
 check anywhere. 
 
 Q. You didn't cash it here ? J[. No ; I wanted to, but I took 
 it home. 
 
 Q. I want to ask you a few more questions, but I would like 
 to have your books before I do it ; can't you undertake to bring 
 here the next day we meet, Tuesday, or whatever day it will be, 
 the cash books running through these years, 1891 to 1894 ; I see 
 you have what you call a sales, book ; I would like to look these 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 521 
 
 over a little, and then your previous ledger and your journal. 
 A, If we have any. 
 
 Q,. Is the bookkeeper down here ? A. No, he isn't now. 
 
 §. Where does he live ? A. In Newark. 
 
 Q. What is his number? A. Lives on Fairmount avenue. 
 
 Mr. McDermitt — I will have him here. 
 Q. We want the cash book, covering from 1891 to 1894 ; the 
 check books and checks that you have not brought ? A. They 
 are there. 
 
 Q. No, that is not all; they don't go back far enough? A. 
 This goes back to November, 1890. 
 
 Q. I want the cash books and your earlier ledger, and if you 
 can send them to me by express, so that we can have a little op- 
 portunity to examine them, you may not have to remain here 
 long the next time you come. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — In fairness to the witness, in 
 order that there may be no misunderstanding of his 
 testimony, you remember there was a time during a 
 stringency of the money market, and I understand from 
 Mr. Heinz that there was at that time, or about that 
 time, that he had this check, considerable difficulty in 
 getting checks cashed that were drawn on banks out of 
 the city where the holder did business. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It was at a different period that he did 
 get it. 
 Q. You referred in your testimony to the fact that one of these 
 jobs was done at thirty-five cents ? A. And another forty. 
 Q. And another one eighty-one ? A. Very small one. 
 Q. How did you get such high prices as eighty- one cents ? A. 
 I don't know ; I think whatever that book was it was worth it ; I 
 don't think there was a table in it. 
 
 Q. If there is a table you get an extra rate for the table ? A. 
 That is true, that is the reason a table job is done cheaper than 
 plain matter. 
 
 Q. Isn't it a fact that in those days there was a kind of an 
 understanding among the Geaman printers, and one took one 
 job and one another, and you could get what price you agreed 
 on ? A. \ don't know about that ; whatever work I got myself 
 I never had any combination with anybody. 
 
 Q. But you got that contract at eighty-one cents by bidding 
 for it? A. It wasn't signed by me. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Keteham) — Did you put in bids for all this 
 work you got ? A. Whatever we did ; yes, sir. 
 
522 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You were the lowest bidder ? A, 
 Otherwise we wouldn't have got it. 
 
 Q. This that was printed by resolution of the House ? 
 
 Mr. McDermitt— The firm lost $2,500 on that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I call the attention of the Committee to 
 
 the bid which was put in in 1889 ; Mr. Kuser bid for 
 
 this composition 85 cents ; Mr. Heinz bid 81, and he got 
 
 it. Now, take some of the later years, when there was 
 
 competition — take 1891 ; the " ISew Jersey Deutsche Zei- 
 
 tang " bid 65 cents, and that year Kuser bid 48 ; there 
 
 was bidding there, but one of them had got onto the fact 
 
 there was going to be bidding this time and the other 
 
 hadn't, I guess. Another, C. S. Robson, of Princeton, 
 
 48 cents ; but Mr. Heinz underbid them all and got it. 
 
 Now take it in 1892 ; here are three unsuccessful bids — 
 
 Kuser, 44 cents ; Schmidt, of Elizabeth, 64 — he hadn't 
 
 yet got on ; " New Jersey Deutsche Zeitung," 55 cents ; 
 
 this gentleman, away below them all — 35 cents — and 
 
 got it. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — May I ask you, judging from the 
 
 present rates of composition, in your judgment is the charge of 
 
 83 cents a reasonable charge or pretty profitable ? A. It depends 
 
 on what matter it is ; if it is solid matter I think 80 cents would 
 
 be about a right charge, but books like these, gotten up like this, 
 
 it is an outrage to charge that price. 
 
 Q. That book cost $6,300 for one thousand copies? A. That 
 is impossible. 
 
 Q. It is paid for. A. 526 pages; there isn't over 12,000 on a 
 page. 
 
 Q. Well, it is paid for. A. It ought not to cost more than 
 $3,000, not the composition. 
 
 Q. The whole thing? A. The paper and press work don't 
 amount to anything. 
 
 Q. You say on solid matter you don't think 80 cents is too 
 much. What do you have to pay compositors ? A. 40 cents. 
 
 Q. In other words, you have a hundred per cent, profit, then? 
 A. No, sir; you have proof reading, and the foreman makes up 
 the forms, and it costs the firm about 53 cents. 
 
 Q. Then you have the press work? A. There is very little 
 profit on press work ; but I think, on straight matter, 80 cents a 
 thousand ems would be about 35 to 40 per cent., while on tabular 
 work at that rate there must be millions. 
 
 Q. Is German printing more expensive than English? A. 
 
FRANK M. M'DERMITT. 523 
 
 English printing is more expensive in any city outside of Trenton ; 
 they pay 40 cents for the English in Newark. 
 
 Q. What are the rates there for compositors? J. 40 cents. 
 
 §. 40 cents for English ; how much for German ? A. 40 cents 
 in Newark; here they do work for 20 cents, I understand. 
 
 Q. What would 100 pages of English matter make when trans- 
 lated into German ? A. About one-third more. 
 
 §. Same sized type ? A. Yes, sir ; I don't see how they could 
 stretch it. Here I see there is quad lines right in between. 
 
 Frank M. McDbrmitt called but not sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You iacted as counsel for the Heinz Printing Company in 
 securing the passage of the bill which Mr. Heinz has referred to? 
 A. I acted also in the capacity of liquidating the company for 
 several months. 
 
 Q. Did you get the bill through? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it a pretty hard job? A. I should say it was. 
 
 Q. How long did it take? A. I think two or three weeks. 
 
 Q. Where did you find the most resistance, in the House or in 
 the Senate? A. Well, now, you are an old member of the 
 House, you ought to know how the House stands on those ques- 
 tions. 
 
 Q. This was long before my time. A. I did n't find really any 
 resistance outside of Comptroller Heppenheimer. 
 
 Q. The bill was introduced on the 13th and finally became a 
 law on the 27th; was there any objection to it in either House? 
 A. No; there was objections raised in the Senate; somebody 
 said the amount was too high. 
 
 Q. Who said that ? A. I think Mr. Adrain. 
 
 Q. And the committee reported it cut down from $4,000 to 
 $2,750 ? A. From $4,500 I think. 
 
 Q. It passed the House at $4,000 ? A. It may have been 
 $4,000. 
 
 Q. You were here when the bill passed? A. Yes, sir; I kept 
 my eye on it all the time. 
 
 §. Did the Governor make any objection? A. No; we in- 
 fluenced him through all right. 
 
 Q. Who helped influence? A. No one was necessary; lam 
 a good talker. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Heinz come with you ? J.. I think not. 
 
 Q. Did you appear before a committee of the House ? A, We 
 did. 
 
 Q. How long did it take them to report it ? A. Not very long. 
 
524 TEANK M. m'dEEMITT. 
 
 Q. The same day they got it? A. 1 don't know. 
 
 Q. Did Senator Barrett's committee hold it very long? A. 
 Oh, not very; I got after him and made him come to the centre. 
 
 Q. But he cut $1,250 off ? A. Yes ; it was an outrage, too. 
 
 Q. What did he do it for ? A. I suppose he thought perhaps 
 it was some sort of steal. 
 
 Q. Why should he act on such an impression as that 1 A. 1 
 don't know, sir. 
 
 Q. How unjust to suggest it. A. I suggest it, because I think 
 he made that statement, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know what he had to go on ? A. No, sir ; Hep- 
 penheimer's word, I suppose. 
 
 Q. Why was the Comptroller opposed to it ? A. Well, because 
 he was running the State House, I suppose, and he didn't want 
 the Heinz Printing Company to have any printing; I suppose he 
 thought I was a member of the printing company. 
 
 Q. Did the Heinz Printing Company run with the same 
 machine he did ? J.. I guess not ; the Heinz machine is a 
 straight machine. 
 
 Q. Well, wasn't Barrett running with the same machine as 
 Heinz at that time? ^4. No, sir; Mr. Barrett was afterwards 
 the counsel for the Litho-Printing Company — they were organized 
 after this bill had passed through. 
 
 Q. Quite soon after, wasn't it — that same spring? A. Well, 
 it might have been actually organized before that, but the money 
 went to the old corporation. 
 
 Q. But after this bill got through, the new company was 
 managed by Senator Barrett ? A. Yes, sir; he had nothing to 
 do with the bill; no one had charge of the affairs of the old 
 con.pany except myself. 
 
 Q. I see he reported the bill ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who asked him to take §1,250 off of it? A. Well, I cer- 
 tainly did not. 
 
 Q. Did the Comptroller ? ^. I presume so. 
 
 Q. Did the other members of the Committee seem specially 
 opposed to it in the Senate ? J.. I told them I was interested in 
 that bill, and that the bill was right. 
 
 Q. Did you tell them the extent to which you were interested ? 
 A. I was interested to a very large extent in the bill. 
 
 Q. Was anybody else interested in it? ^1. Not that I was 
 aware of. 
 
 Q. Any bad features in the bill that you know of ? A. None 
 that we used to have in days gone by, that parties used to talK 
 about. 
 
FRANK M. m'dEEMITT. 525 
 
 Q. So that it went through in abour ten days ? A. Whatever 
 the record shows. 
 
 Q. Where was this little that Mr. Heinz has mentioned, where 
 you endorsed the check and he signed it? A. I think after I got 
 possession of that check — the bill passed about three o'clock in 
 the afternoon, and I think that I had that check before half-past 
 four of the same day. You know I was liquidating the affairs of 
 the old company ; they owed me quite some money for cash ad- 
 vanced to fix up the pay rolls and so forth. 
 
 Q. You got it about half-past four that afternoon ? A. And I 
 took it to Newark with me and sent for Heinz and had him en- 
 dorse i^, and I took it downstairs to the bank and got the good 
 money for it, because I recognize that a check is not as good as 
 money. 
 
 '^>. You didn't give him a check, you gave him the cash ? A. 
 Yes, sir; cash. 
 
 Q. You wanted currency ? A. Not necessarily, but I always 
 carry a good deal of currency. 
 
 Q. Was there any particular stringency ? A. Not with me, 
 there never is. 
 
 Q. I see this was the 28th of February ; the Legislature was 
 still in session ? A. That was my final act for the year down 
 here. 
 
 Q. Didn't you come down the next day ? A. 1 think not. 
 
 Q. How soon did the members go back to Newark 1 A. 1 
 couldn't say, sir ; I lost all interest in them after I got through 
 with the bill. 
 
 Q. What was the occasion for so much currency in connection 
 with this little printing job ? ^. In what respect ? 
 
 Q. You say you went down and got $2,700 in currency ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you deposit it in your bank and draw out $50 
 for your family expenses ? A. 1 suppose there is in the neighbor- 
 hood of $25,000 to $30,000 a year that is paid to me, and I simply 
 just walk down to the State Banking Company and get the 
 money for it ; my endorsement is good. 
 
 Q. That is considered the better method of handling certain 
 kinds of funds? A. It is the safest and best for a lawyer to 
 adopt when he is dealing with certain people. 
 
 Q. What is the advantage of that method, having so much 
 currency; why is it safer? A. I don't know of any special 
 reason why it is safer. 
 
 Q. I understood you to say it was safer ? A. 1 regard it a safe 
 thing to do ; greenbacks beats a check any time. 
 
526 FKANK M. M'dEEMITT. 
 
 Q. And yet under the present administration ISTew Jersey's 
 paper is about as good as the government 1 A. 1 haven't been 
 looking that up. 
 
 Q. You don't know about the period of that particular check ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What was the occasion for so much currency and paper? 
 A. I drew the cash out of the bank. 
 
 Q. You didn't foresee the commercial panic that was coming 
 on in May? A. ITo, I never see any panic. 
 
 Q. How long did you carry the two thousand dollars in your 
 pocket? A. I can't tell how long I carried it. 
 
 Q. How long should you judge? A. I might have had some 
 creditors ; I couldn't say. 
 
 Q. Finally got rid of it all? A. l^Tot necessarily; 1 think not. 
 
 Q. You have got some of it yet? A. I have got all of it yet. 
 
 Q. Deposit it in a bank ? J.. No ; I did not. I don't know 
 that I have got that amount with me to-day. 
 
 A. But, after paying this $655, and I understand that was in 
 cash, that left you two thousand dollars strong yet, didn't it? 
 A. Yes, sir; I think so. 
 
 Q. Do you have any memory about what you did with that ? 
 A. Well, I know that I didn't utilize it for any wrong purpose. 
 
 Q. I wouldn't insinuate such a thing as that. A. ISo ; I know 
 you wouldn't; I know that in 1887 you were a very clever gen- 
 tleman, and you don't seem to have lost any of your brightness 
 since. 
 
 Q. So you don't remember what you did with the money? 
 A. No; and I don't think you can establish it by innuendo, 
 either; I invested it for my own benefit. 
 
 Q. Where did you invest it? A. 1 don't know that I put it 
 out specially. 
 
 Q. Did you render a bill to this company? A. I must have 
 rendered a bill of some kind. 
 
 Q. For the amount which you took out of that $2,750 ? Jl. I 
 think I gave them a receipt for it. 
 
 Q. What was it for ? A. Disbursements and services as coun- 
 sel. 
 
 Q. In what connection? A. I was at one time either the act- 
 ing manager and counsel or proprietor of the paper called the 
 " Sunday Standard," and they printed the paper, together with 
 job printing, and all that kind of business. 
 
 Q. Did you have an open account with these people? A. No. 
 
 Q. How did you get at the amout of $2,045 t A. i think 
 there was a good deal of cash advanced. 
 v 
 
FRANK M. M DERMITT. 627 
 
 Q. You judge that would be about the amount to take ? A. 
 No. 
 
 Q. Did you have a book ? A. No. 
 
 Q. Did you render them a detailed bill? A. No; I think it 
 was general. 
 
 Q. You think you gave a receipt for that amount of money ? 
 A. I am sure I gave a receipt ; no reason to hesitate to give a 
 receipt ; I certainly have got the money. 
 
 Q. And so, without giving the company any detailed bill, or 
 without having any detailed charges upon your books, you took 
 $2,045, and gave them a receipt? A. I have never kept any 
 books in my law office ; it is strictly a cash business. 
 
 Q. But you didn't render them any detailed bill, nor did you 
 have a detailed account against them ? A. Yes, but it was 
 made up of items of money advanced by me to them. 
 
 Q. That was a small part? ^. No; probably a large part; I 
 think probably a thousand dollars was in- cash advanced in the 
 concern at the time they were really in stringency. 
 
 Q. This $2,000 closed the matters which you had between you? 
 A. That paid me not only the money advanced, but services in 
 winding their concern up, and for services I rendered in the 
 passage of this bill ; I made no disbursements except what were 
 right. 
 
 Q. You used the word yourself; I didn't characterize the dis- 
 bursements. Didn't they make any question about the size of 
 that bill ? A. I think not. 
 
 Q. Did you see Mr. Heinz about the bill ? A. He was a client 
 of mine, and whatever counsel had in that was right ; they had 
 the utmost confidence in me, like everybody else that knows me. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And if you had taken the whole of 
 that check — A. I think they would have been satisfied. 
 
 ^. (By Senator Skirm) — I only wonder why you gave them so 
 much. A. I think it was a mistake ; they would have been just 
 as well off without it ; it was the last chance there was to collect 
 my money. 
 
 Q. It was really throwing money away to give it to a dead 
 concern like that? A. No, there were other good people — 
 
 Q. To whom did you give the $655 in bills? A. I think it 
 was Mr. Heinz. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — It wasn't due to the fact that 
 you were their counsel that their early demise is explainable ? 
 A. No, I think not ; my clients usually live on afterwards ; when 
 they can't endorse for me any longer I endorse for them — sort of 
 reciprocal ; it is always right, you know. 
 
528 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. I asked you to bring your check book and checks, but I 
 suppose from what you have said that they will show nothing in 
 regard to this matter ? A. No, I can show you how my business 
 runs; they balanced the books, and I think they got |272,000 to 
 my credit; but they may not have taken off the other side yet; 
 I don't know. 
 
 Q. I don't think I would speak of that until after the income 
 tax returns are made. A. I have already sent the report in, and 
 yet I am not under oath. 
 
 Q. I will trust you to tell the truth. Your books then won't 
 show any deposit of this check? A. No, sir, show no record of 
 it whatever. The State Banking Company is directly under my 
 law office, and I went down the next morning and drew out the 
 money and gave Mr. Heinz what justly belonged to him, and 
 what belonged justly to Mr. McDermitt 1 put in my pocket. If 
 there are any more checks to be cashed at the same rate please 
 send for me. 
 
 Adjourned until Tuesday, April 16th, 1895, at ten o'clock, 
 A.M. 
 
 April 16th, 1895, 10 A. M. 
 
 Otto H. Heinz, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mb. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Did you publish a German newspaper? A. Some years 
 ago; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In connection with your printing office? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What paper was that? A. " The New Jersey Volksblat." 
 
 Q. "When did you cease to publish that? A. Some time in 
 1891. 
 
 Q. Where has your office been these past three or four years; 
 on what street ? A. 193 Halsey street. 
 
 Q. Was there any other printing office adjacent to yours, or 
 near you there ? A. " The Sunday Standard ; " the rear of their 
 building joined our building. 
 
 Q. Was that Mr. McDermit's paper? A. It was known to be 
 Mr. McDermit's paper. 
 
 Q. He was one of the promoters and proprietors of it? A. 1 
 think so. 
 
 Q. Did you do printing for them ? A. We did their press- 
 work — printed the " Sunday Standard." 
 
 Q. And did you have an account with them ? A. They had 
 an account with us. 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 529 
 
 Q. And did you have an account with Mr. McDermitt ? A. 
 'No, sir ; he had an account with us. 
 
 Q. I mean that. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you ledger, page 128, three small items of merchan- 
 dise sold in 1892, amounting to $16.50, paid by a note of June 
 24th, 1893, and afterwards one item of merchandise in 1894, $2, 
 which appears to have been paid. Is that all the account you 
 have with Mr. McDermitt? A. The only personal account; but 
 we had an account with the " Sunday Standard." 
 
 Q. Refer to page 158 of your leger — is that your account with 
 the " Sunday Standard " ? A. Yes, sir; there must be more than 
 that previous to this. 
 
 Q. This begins in April, 1893. Yes, there is more; their 
 account is also on page 59, which carries it back to November, 
 1891. Those are accounts with that newspaper, are they? A. 
 Yes, sir ; probably before that ; I couldn't say. 
 
 Q. At the time when you had the claim against the State was 
 Mr. McDermitt's newspaper in the rear of your place then ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he undertook to get a bill passed to pay the claim, 
 did he ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he got the bill passed to pay you $2,750? A. He did. 
 
 Q. Had he ever done any legal services for you before that ? 
 A. Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Were you owing him anything for anything at that time ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. His " Sunday Standard " was in fact indebted to you, was it 
 not, at that time. A. Yes, sir; about this time we ceased print- 
 ing it, he having purchased a press for himself. 
 
 Q. Well, they owed you about $180, didn't they ? A. That is 
 the balance. 
 
 Q. At the time he collected that $2,750 for you, did you ask 
 ihim to pay you the $180 which his paper owed you ? J.. I did. 
 
 Q. Did he do it ? A. He gave me a note for it, according to 
 that. 
 
 Q. That was long after, wasn't it, in July ? A. Well, that is 
 all I got for it, his note, and it was protested later on. , 
 
 Q. Then in February, when he got the $2,750, he took out 
 $2,095 for securing the passage of that bill — is that right ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There was nothing else that you owed him for? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And yet he didn't pay the bill of $180 ? A. No, sir. 
 
 34 SH 
 
530 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. And you afterwards, in July, secured a note from him for 
 $180, did you not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you collect the note ? A. I sued on it. 
 Q. And obtained judgment? A. Yes, sir; that is the only 
 time that he ever had any dealings with our concern as counsel. 
 Q. Q. And then he was on the other side? A, Then he was 
 on the other side. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Your dealings were with him ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Has he ever been your counsel since ? A. No. 
 Q. Did you employ him to be your counsel here before the 
 Committee ? A. No, sir; I am afraid I will get a bill, although 
 I didn't employ him. 
 
 Q. Did you authorize him to appear here for you ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. So that to get that bill through the Legislature, through 
 the exertions of Mr. McDermitt to get your just claim of $2,750 
 paid, he charged you $2,095 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think it is proper that you 
 should be assured that I do not think the relation of 
 counsel and client prevails between you, Mr. Heinz, and 
 Mr. McDermitt, before the Committee. I don't think 
 there will be any bill against you. 
 Senator Skirm' — Not now. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Chairman, I have obtained from the 
 Comptroller's office the bids for the German printing 
 for the years 1889 to 1893, to some of which I would 
 like to refer. I find that in the year 1889 Mr. Kuser, 
 or his newspaper, the " Freie Zeitung," bid 85 cents for 
 composition, Mr. Heinz, 81 cents ; Mr. Prieth, who, I be- 
 lieve, is also now of the " Freie Zeitung," of Newark — (it 
 was Mrs. Prieth at that time) — 66 cents, and obtained 
 part of the work; C. S. Eobinson, of Princeton, 35 
 cents, and obtained part of the work. Iq 1890 Kuser's 
 bid was 80 cents, and he obtained the three largest re- 
 ports, I think Education, Health, and Statistics ; Heinz 
 Printing Company was 81 cents, and obtained the State 
 Geological Report and Agricultural ; Robinson's was 45 
 cents, and he obtained the Factory Report. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Let me ask why it should be that 
 one amount was 45, another 80, and another 81, all for 
 the same class of work? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Robinson seems to have bid low, 
 very much lower than the others, and to have obtained 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 531 
 
 part of the work. I don't think he ever bid on the rest 
 oi it at all, and the others continued during those years 
 to obtain their high prices ; you will see that later a 
 change was made. 
 
 Q. In that year, 1890, Mr. Heinz, who attended to getting the 
 contracts for your firm ? A. Mr. Charles Trefz ; I had nothing 
 to do with it that year. 
 
 Q. He got two reports, the State Geological and the Agricul- 
 tural? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the " Freie Zeitung " got the Education, Health and 
 Statistics, was that it ? A. Yes, sir ; I think so. 
 
 Q. At substantially the same price, 80 and 81 cents? A. I 
 wish to remark the price here ; the price paid for our reports 
 was not exorbitant whatever, on account they were solid. 
 
 Q. The two you get, the Geological and Agricultural, had 
 very few tables in ? A. 1 don't think any. 
 
 Q. And the three that the " Zeitung " got had more tables ? 
 A. Yes ; you see the reports. 
 
 Q. Mr. Trefz at that time waa not an experienced printer, was 
 he? A. No; I think he was an experienced brewer, if he was 
 anything. 
 
 Q. Was he a member of the House at that time ? A, I think 
 he was, although I am not positive. 
 
 Q. He came down to Trenton and arranged that, did he? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether there was any arrangement made 
 with the other bidders at the time "^ No, sir ; I was not pres- 
 ent; I don't know anything about it? 
 
 Q. But your concern and the " Zeitung " got it all except the 
 small report that went to Robinson? A. I believe so; I don't 
 know of my own knowledge about Robinson. 
 
 Q. Yes, he got the Factory report. Now, in the year 1891, the 
 Heinz Printing Company bid 35 cents, a very low price, for the 
 whole thing, and got it all. There was actual, vigorous competi- 
 tion that year, wasn't there ? A. So it appears. 
 
 Q. Heinz, as 1 see, was 35 cents that year ; the " Freie Press " 
 Printing Association, of Elizabeth, was 65 cents ; the " New 
 Jersey Deutsche Zeitung " was 65 cents ; C. L. Robinson was 48 
 cents, and John L. Kuser was 48 cents. You underbid them all ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In 1892 the work was divided up again, and at moderately 
 low prices. The " Freie Zeitung " got the Health and Taxation 
 at 48 cents; Robinson the Factory report at 45, and Heinz 
 Printing Company the Education at 40. In the year 1898 there 
 
532 OTTO H. HEI^fZ. 
 
 were three bids, two by Mr. Robinson ; one at 55 cents for part 
 of the work — that was the Education report — and one at 45 
 cents for the Factory and Workshop report, neither of which 
 were succeeeful. The other bid was by J. L. Kuser, of Newark, 
 for everything — Board of Education, Board of Health, Board of 
 Taxation and Factory and Wjorkshops — at 76 cents, and the 
 contract was awarded to Mr. Kufeer. Those two large Educational 
 reports which I showed the Committee the other day are part of 
 that work. They were printed by the " New Jersey Freie 
 Zeitung," in Newark, by contract, at 76 cents. The lower bids 
 were not awarded. Why did you not bid that year ? A. Well, 
 there wasn't much money in it for me at the rates I had been 
 figuring, and I thought I would stay out. 
 
 Q. Ton saw Mr. Kuser about it first ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he see you about it ? A. Well, he saw me in Trenton 
 here. 
 
 Q. Well, just tell us what was said and what happened ^ A. I 
 couldn't exactly tell what was said, but to make a long story 
 short, I concluded to stay out by being given a consideration. 
 
 Q. How much did he give you ? $500. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether other bidders were in like manner 
 induced to stay out of the bidding? A. I think there was one. 
 
 Q. Who was that? A. Mr. Krasutler. 
 
 Q. Do you know why Robinson was not awarded the contract 
 when he was the lowest bidder? A. No, sir ; I do not. 
 
 Q. Did he withdraw ? Well, I don't know anything about 
 that; I suppose the records of the Comptroller's office will show 
 it. 
 
 Q. Well, now, after this printing had gone on, did anything 
 more pass between Mr. Kuser and you on the subject? A. After 
 the contracts had been awarded, when it was found out that the 
 two best books in the lot went to Mr. Robinson, Mr. Kuser felt 
 sorry about his part, or the amount of money he gave me, and 
 he requested me to return one-half to him. 
 
 Q. Did you understand that half of the work had gone to Rob- 
 inson ? J.. I was in the Comptroller's office and saw it. 
 
 Q. He asked you to return part of the money, did he ; A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you do it A. I did. 
 
 Q. By cash or check ? A. Check. 
 
 Q. Is that the check? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I ofier in evidence the check, signed 
 " Otto H. Heinz, Special," upon the State Banking Com- 
 pany, Newark, dated "December 30, 1893," to the 
 
OTTO IT. HEINZ. 533 
 
 order of John L. Kuser, for $250, endorsed "J. L. 
 Kuser." Marked " Exhibit 206." 
 
 Q. You say that was because Mr. Kuser said he had lost part 
 of the work which he had expected to get? A. The best part of 
 the work, because in those reports were tables — they didn't pan 
 out, I don't suppose, much at 76 cents. 
 
 Q. So that the net amount that you got was only $250 ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was it that you understood that Mr. Robinson got 
 in 1893 t A.\ am not certain what it was ; I think the Board 
 of Education and the Factory and Workshops. 
 
 Q. It would seem by the bill to have been printed at the 
 "Freie Zeitung"; I show you part second of the School report 
 of 1893, printed in German, which is made up entirely of tables ; 
 look at this, and tell me what part of it is type and what part ia 
 plate work; take any page that you please. A. This report 
 evidently is all type work, although the headings are the same. 
 
 Q. Those headings that are the same from page to page, are 
 they not made from plates ? A. These do not appear to be made 
 from plates. 
 
 Q. Now, in that report, Mr. Heinz, you find, do you not, the 
 same headings in German and the same matter at the side in 
 German for many pages together without any change, as is usual 
 in the making up of tables; isn't that so? A. In this respect, 
 the headings of 448 pages are alike. 
 
 Q. Those headings, then, could be printed from a plate, could 
 thevnot? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, after you have translated one of those 400 pages you 
 have translated them all, haven't you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They are all alike ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The only thing that changes from page to page is the figure 
 work in the body of the table ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Which changes with the township or county for which you 
 are giving the statistics ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. And those are not translated, are they ? A. Well, they 
 can't very well be translated. 
 
 Q. They are the same in English as they are in German? A. 
 Yes, sir; you can't say Trenton any different in German than 
 you can in English. 
 
 Q. I show you part one of the same report. Look at that 
 table work and see if you see any electrotypes there? A. The 
 headings of these are electrotypes. 
 
 Q. How about the sides? A. The sides are not. 
 
534 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. What proportion of the page does the headicg constitute? 
 A. One-third. 
 
 Q. So that after you have that third made there is no more 
 typesetting had on that one-third of the page? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. That is where the profit in printing comes in, isn't it? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. At what rate are tables paid for by the rule of printers? 
 A. Our office gave them out in weeks wages. 
 
 Q. Well, when done by the page, how much more. I don't 
 mean what you pay for it in charging the State for it. What 
 did you charge for a page of tables as compared with a page of 
 solid matter? A. The State allows double for these tables, and 
 any printer's office would charge double. 
 
 Q. That is the usual rule among printers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is the way they are profitable, because you get twice 
 as much money? A. Not alone that; there is a lot of empty 
 spaces there that can be filled up quickly with quads. 
 
 Q. There isn't much typesetting to be done? A. No. 
 
 Q. I draw your attention again to some of the bills which you 
 rendered against the State. The bill for §1,451.10, which the 
 State paid you by check November 24th, 1891. That I think 
 you said you endorsed and deposited in your account at Newark. 
 It appears in your sales book, page 10, charged November 17th, 
 1891 ; the credit is in the cash book, page 6, November 25tV, 
 1891. The credit is in the ledger, page 33, the same date, and a 
 sum somewhat larger than that, §1,475.10, was deposited the 
 same day. I draw your attention to your bill. May 16th, 1892, 
 for §499.18. The State gave you a check to the order of your 
 company, which you entered in your cash book, page 40, May 
 17th, 1892, and deposited. Then you drew a check to C. A. 
 Lehman for |100, which was charged to Charles Trefz by the 
 stub of the check. What was that for— May, 1892? A. I had 
 nothing to do with signing checks at that time ; I don't recollect 
 the transaction. 
 
 Q. Your check stub is to Charles Trefz ; your check is to C. 
 A. Lehman, and signed by Charles Trefz as an officer of your 
 company. Who was C. A. Lehman? A. C. A. Lehman was a 
 hotel keeper in Newark. 
 
 Q. Near your office? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (J. Sort of a headquarters for certain political people ? ^. No : 
 business men in general. 
 
 Q. For example, Mr. McDermitt? A. Well, he was there 
 quite often. 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 535 
 
 Q. And Mr. Trefz? A. Mr. Trefz was there daily at that 
 time. 
 
 Q. What called him there daily ? A. Coming down town from 
 the brewery, it was a place for him to stop — on good terms. 
 
 Q. And it was rather a rendezvous, wasn't it, for social meet- 
 ings of people who are active? A. Yes; with business people 
 of the — 
 
 Q. And is yet? A. And is yet. 
 
 Q. Look at check stub No. 2803. In whose handwriting is it? 
 A. I couldn't tell you, sir. 
 
 Q. It is " May 21, 1892, Charles Trefz, Special," isn't it? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the check is to C. A. Lehman, and signed " Charles 
 Trefz, Treasurer " ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The check doesn't appear to have been paid, does it ? A. 
 No. 
 
 Q. Do you know why it was returned ? J.. I don't know ; I 
 don't recollect this handwriting; I never saw it, I don't think. 
 
 Q. Do you know why it was drawn ? J.. I do not ; the hand- 
 writing of the check is evidently in the hand of Mr. Trefz, while 
 .this on the stub I can't tell who wrote that. 
 
 Q. That check of a hundred dollars had nothing to do with the 
 ^500 obtained from the State that day? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't know? A. I don't know; I don't think so. 
 
 Q. Was your attention ever called to this check before ? A- 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to the payment of the State to your 
 company of $917.70 by check of August 9, 1892, which you got 
 cashed, as you testified, at the saloon of Mr. Engel, in Trenton ; I 
 find no deposit in your books of that date, or anywhere near it, 
 of any sum of money of any considerable amount; do you know 
 what was done with the $917? A, Mr. Trefz was in the habit of 
 advancing money, and he may have taken the whole amount 
 turned over by me. 
 
 Q. Well, then, why wouldn't you charge it in your cash book 
 to Mr. Trefz? ^. I don't know. 
 
 Q. Who had the charge of these books? A. Mr. Grapp, for 
 the last four or five years. 
 
 Q. Did any one of the proprietors of the business keep their 
 eyes upon them? A. Well, I don't think that anybody would 
 suspect that man ; we never did. 
 
 Q. Are you aware that from the time this check was given 
 that only the debit side of your cash book was kept, and that no 
 entries were made on the credit side ? A. No, sir. 
 
636 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. Let me show it to you. I show you the cash book, page 
 56, where you will see credited to the State of New Jersey 
 $917.70 on the 10th of August, 1892, and do you observe that 
 the cash is regularly footed and that there is nothing on the 
 credit side of the cash ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know why that is? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And that the cash doesn't appear again to be balanced or 
 kept properly until October, 1892; do you know why that was? 
 A. I think at that time — I am not positive of this — but I think 
 it is the fact that Mr. Trefz gave a Newark lawyer by the name 
 of Graves power of attorney, and why the books were kept in 
 such a condition I have no knowledge of it until to-day, why they 
 were not footed up on the credit side. 
 
 Q. "Well, not long after this you transfnrred the business from 
 the Heinz Printing Company to the Heinz Litho. Printing Com- 
 pany, did you not ? A. That explains it. 
 
 Q. Wouldn't that be all the more reason for balancing your 
 books and finding out their condition? A. At that time when 
 the Company was wound up whatever deficiency there was Mr. 
 Trefz paid ; there was one hundred cents on the dollar paid ; I 
 didn't look at the books any further. 
 
 Q. Well, the books were not, as a matter of fact, balanced ? 
 A. I don't suppose they was ; this is the first time T took notice 
 to that. 
 
 Q. And there is nothing in them to show where the money 
 went to, is there? A. No, sir. 
 
 Now, for a moment, while we are on the books, I turn to 
 Charles Trefz's account, page 90, and I find charged to him, 
 brought from your cash book, $1,189, $200, $50, $200, with the 
 folio of the cash book, and then a number of charges which are 
 brought from nowhere, making up a total of $2,391 ; and I find 
 credited to him a check, $300, and the word " payment $1,600," 
 which seem to come from no other book at all. Can you explain 
 what those entries mean? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, why was a balance of that account forced in that way 
 without any figures in your other books to explain it ; that 
 balance is struck November blank, if you please, 1891 ; there is 
 no date opposite the final — . A. Did he receive that money ? 
 
 Q. I can't tell. I would like to know. A. Or did he pay it 
 in? I can't tell, either. 
 
 Q. I show you the credit side of his account: November 12th, 
 1891, he is credited a check of $300; you won't find it in your 
 cash or other books. Then, below it, without date, " payment 
 of $600; " you won't find that. You will see there is no folio 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 537 
 
 opposite it, as there is opposite the other payments. A. The 
 brewmaster of his brewery loaned Mr. Trefz at that time 
 $1,600, or about that time. 
 
 Q. And he lent it to you ? A. Turned it into the company. 
 
 Q. Why wouldn't it appear in your books ? A. That is what 
 I was looking for. 
 
 Q. It isn't in your cash, or anywhere else, so far as I can find. 
 A. I saw the payment only the other day. 
 
 Q. Well, the truth is, your system of bookkeeping broke down 
 at this point, didn't it? A. It seems so. 
 
 Q. And these books don't fully show your transactions after 
 that time? A. I think they do, after the beginning of the new 
 company, 
 
 Q. After the beginning of [the new company there was a re- 
 formation again in the keeping of the books ? That is true ; they 
 did open a cash account again. But isn't it more or less true, 
 all the way through, that your books do not really show the true 
 condition of your cash receipts and payments ? A. You have 
 called my attention to it this morning, the first inkling I had 
 of it. 
 
 Q. I will draw your attention to another payment. A check, 
 $185.46, dated March Ist, 1^92, appears in the sales book, page 
 56, cash book page 26, ledger 33. I refer you again to the item 
 $2,750, which Mr. McDermitt collected for you under the special 
 act of the Legislature, and ask your attention to your books. I 
 find in your sales book, which is your journal and day book in 
 fact, no entry of this item of printing for the State. Why is that? 
 A. It wasn't completed; we couldn't make out an item ; couldn't 
 enter it before we had completed the work, because we never 
 knew what the book would contain, and they were never entered 
 until they were finished. 
 
 Q. In your cash book, page 96, I see you pass to the credit of 
 the State of New Jersey $2,750. That is the amount which Mr. 
 McDermitt received for you, was it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is the first entry I find in your books. IsTow, on the 
 opposite side of your cash, three days later, I find entered, 
 "Frank M. McDermitt, $2,095." That is the payment to Mr. 
 McDermitt for recovering this money? A. That is the payment 
 withheld. 
 
 Q. He withheld it? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. I see that it is not posted to any account whatever ? A. 
 Profit and loss, I suppose. 
 
 Q. It was the expense of recovering the $2,750 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
538 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 Q. It is not, in fact, carried to any account. I draw your 
 attention to the payment of |1,740, given to you by a check of 
 the State, March 28, 1893, endorsed by the Heinz Printing Com- 
 pany, the Heinz Litho. and Printing Company, by yourself and 
 Gottlieb Prank, Treasurer. That seems to have been cleared 
 through a Newark bank, but not to have been put through your 
 books, through your bank book. Why was that cashed in New- 
 ark for so great a sum, $1,740? A. "What date is that? 
 
 Q. $1,740 paid in March, 1893. It is entered in your cash 
 book at page 100, you credit the State with §1,740. 
 
 Senator Skirm — What became of the money ? 
 Mr. Corbin — It was cashed in Newark but did not go 
 through the bank. I have the wrong check. That was 
 deposited. I beg your pardon. You spoke the other 
 day of a check for $2,768.08, which the State paid you 
 for printing the first part of the report of the Board of 
 Education for 1892. You got this on September 12, 
 1893. It is entered in the sales book, page 290; cash 
 book, 122 ; ledger, page 37 ; and you deposited that, I 
 think you said, in the Newark Bank ? 
 A. I think the check shows it? 
 
 Q. And it was that from which you said you paid the large 
 amount of arrearages of wages? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. $1,000 for wages? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, referring, if you please, to the eheck for $2,714.13, 
 
 dated November 8th, 1893. This is it. You had that cashed at 
 
 the First National Bank of Trenton, did you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you go there yourself to get the money? A. It looks 
 
 BO ; my signature and all. 
 
 Q. Do you remember it ? A. 1 think I do. 
 Q. Now your sale's book, at page 312, has that entry, which I 
 will show you. The date of the charge to the State is November 
 lltb, 1893. In whose handwriting is the entry? A. Book- 
 keeper's. 
 
 Q. Your bill, which you identified the other day, is dated 
 October 20th, 1893, for printing this report. It gives the details 
 and the total amount footed up >?2,714.13. Where did you get 
 those items from ? A. They were measured up in the office of 
 the expert printer. 
 
 Q. Now, in your sales book there is no entry made of it until 
 after you were paid, some 21 days after the date of the bill, and 
 it reads this way : " November 11th, 1893. State of New Jer- 
 sey, to one thousand copies Board of Education, first part, with- 
 out explanation, $1,533.11." Why was that charge on your 
 
OTTO H HEINZ. 539 
 
 books at $1,533, and billed to tbe State at |2,714 ? ^. I can't 
 tell. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Why not ? 4. I don't know ; be 
 may have made a mistake; there is none of it in my hand- 
 writing; evidently the State paid the whole bill. 
 
 Q. Now, after you had received from the First National Bank 
 of Trenton this $2,714 in cash, I show you that you returned 
 into your corporation only the $1,583.13, which was entered in 
 your cash book at page 130. Tou see it is entered in your cash 
 book as $1,533.13; so that the balance, being $1,181, never passed 
 through your books, did it ? A. It don't look that way. 
 
 Q. Well, now, what was done with the $1,181? A. Well, I 
 am satisfied that my bookkeeper didn't keep it; I suppose I did. 
 Q. I don't believe your bookkeeper got it ? A. No. 
 Q. But have you no memory about it as to what you did with 
 the $1,181 in cash? A. About that time, in November some 
 time, I think about the middle of November, I made an invest- 
 ment in the Asbestos Company in Newark, took some stock in 
 there, and paid a thousand dollars ; I suppose that money is 
 from that. 
 
 Q. Why wouldn't you enter it to your personal account on 
 the books of the corporation ? A. I haven't kept it at all. 
 
 Q. But you would hardly take out $1,181 of the corporation 
 money received from the State of New Jersey without charging 
 it to yourself? A. It evidently was due me. 
 
 Q. I know, but more is the reason why you should enter it up 
 to your account ; haven't you some better explanation than that 
 of it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you own all the stock in the corporation ? A. All but 
 two shares. 
 
 Q. Then you treated the matter very much as your own per- 
 sonal business, did you ? A. Undoubtedly, 
 
 Q. In your account on the ledger I find no entry of this sum, 
 or anything like it, or anything at the time. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand that you have shown 
 that this check for $2,700 was cashed at the First 
 National Bank, of Trenton ? 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That there was no entry on the book 
 until twenty-one days after, when Mr. Heinz charged 
 $1,633, and the difterence, $1,180, has gone somewhere. 
 Mr. Corbin — That is not quite accurate. The bill was 
 rendered to the State in detail, and Iprtsume correctly, 
 on the 20th of October, 1893 ; at that time there had 
 
540 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 been no entry on the books whatever ; the money was 
 paid by the State on November 8th, 1893, and Mr. Heinz 
 has testified that he cashed the check, as indeed the 
 check shows, at the First National Bank of Trenton, 
 for $2,714. He returned a day or two later $1,533.13 
 of this money into the corporation, which went into 
 the cash book credited to the State, and then an entry 
 was made upon the sales book, as I have read, " A thou- 
 sand copies of the Board of Education, first part, with- 
 out explanation, $1,533.11," the balance of cash which 
 had come in, leaving in Mr. Heinz's hands, as he ad- 
 mits, $1,181. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Have n't you any explanation why 
 the entry should be made of 1,500 and some odd dollars? 
 A. No, sir; except here — what date was that? 
 
 Q. The exact date is November 8, 1893, that you got the 
 check. A. I find here on November 11, 1893, four entries of 
 about 15 or 16 hands which we paid off back wages. 
 
 Q. This is your receipt book that you produced? A. From 
 the hands ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Yes; doubtless you paid wages, and I think you will find 
 it all entered ia the cash. Bat that doesn't account for the $1,181 
 which did not go into the corporation at all ? A. Well, it evi- 
 dently was drawn by me, or kept by me, and used for my own 
 private purposes, which I had a perfect right to do. 
 
 Q. Do you remember some years when the Governor's inaug- 
 ural address or messages to the Legislature were printed in Ger- 
 man by you, and also printed in German by others? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Was that the year 1892, the last year of Governor Abbett's 
 term ? ^1. I think so. 
 
 Q. How many others printed it besides yourself? A. I think 
 two other firms. 
 
 Q. Who were those ? .4. Mr. Krautler, of the Deutsche 
 ZeituDg, and Smith, at Elizabeth. 
 
 Q. Did you each get separate translations ? ^. T don't think so. 
 Q. Who translated for you ? ^. I couldn't say. 
 Q. From whom did you get your copy ? A. From the Clerk 
 of the House. 
 
 Q. Did you set it all up in your own office, or did you get the 
 type from one of the other parties? A. No, sir ; we set it up. 
 
 Q. Did anybody take your type ? Q. No, sir ; we printed for 
 others afterward from our type. 
 
OTTO H. HEINZ. 541 
 
 . You think you had your own translating done? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Probably the others did the same? A. Probably. 
 Q. And the translating is charged in the bill? A. Yes, sir; 
 but I can't answer for the others. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I haven't the bills all here, but I think 
 it is a fact that these were ordered by the Legislature — 
 by the House, I think — printed by two or three German 
 printers, and evidently it is no reflection upon this 
 witness, but it is the fault of the Legislature, if there is 
 any fault about it. 
 Q. You printed two thousand copies ? A. Three thousand. 
 Q. And each of the others three thousand? A. I think so. 
 Q. Did that cover the inaugural address as well as the Gover- 
 nor's message 2 A. I think there were two separate reports. 
 
 Q. And one was Governor Abbett's final message and the 
 other was Governor Werts' inaugural address ? J.. I couldn't 
 say ; I think it was Governor Werts' — one of them — and Gover- 
 nor Abbett's the other. 
 
 Q. It must have been earlier than 1892 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do I understand you to say you 
 printed these copies for other newspapers besides yours? A. I 
 think I made that remark. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then I want to ask whether, if you 
 printed these, whether the papers got paid for them ? Did you 
 print their copies for them? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And these other gentlemen got the cost of translating and 
 printing and you did the work? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't want to make that charge until 
 I look at the bills. I am not quite sure that was paid 
 more than once. 
 Q. But you were paid for the translation ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Daly — When was this contract system entered 
 by which this printing of public documents was started? 
 Mr. Corbin— 1883. 
 
 Senator Daly — Has all this public printing been done 
 under that contract from that time down to the present? 
 Mr. Corbin — ISTo ; the printing which is given out 
 through the Comptroller's office, or by the joint com- 
 mittee of the two Houses, acting in conjunction with 
 the Comptroller's office, is done by contract. There is 
 other printing that has been ordered from time to time 
 by the House of Assembly or by the Senate, and the 
 Governor has had printing done before the convening 
 
542 OTTO H. HEINZ. 
 
 of the two Houses, covering, if you please, his message. 
 Then there has other printing been done where the 
 item was not included in the specifications prepared by 
 the Comptroller, or in the joint committee, but reports 
 have come in afterwards, and they have, I believe, in 
 certain cases been sent out to be printed, sometimes to 
 the State printer and sometimes possibly to others, and 
 that answer, I think, covers substantially all the print- 
 ing that is done outside of the current printing done 
 for the Legislature. 
 
 Senator Daly — Sometimes that class of printing was 
 ordered by the joint committee, and sometimes by the 
 Comptroller ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The joint committee are supposed to 
 make up the list of all the documents which are to be 
 printed. I believe that is the practice ; at all events, to 
 designate those that should go into the book of docu- 
 ments and specifications are issued, bids are received 
 and the contracts are awarded ; it sometimes happens, 
 I believe, that reports do come in from the commissions 
 or officers or boards which are not included in this 
 specification, probably by accident ; some new commis- 
 sion has been appointed — and those 1 know in certain 
 instances have been given out without contract. 
 
 Senator Daly — Then really the Joint Committee are 
 responsible for the amount that is ordered. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — To a certain extent. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — They seem to have assumed the respon- 
 sibility of making up the list. 
 
 Senator Daly — That is what I mean. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That was the old law, that the Joint 
 Committee on Printing should do so. It seems to have 
 been changed in 1883, and the law seems to be that the 
 Legislature shall designate ; but as the Legislature has 
 not done it, the practice has been continued to convene 
 the Joint Committee and have them make up the list 
 in conjunction, I believe, with the Governor and Comp- 
 troller. I think that is about the practice. I am stat- 
 ing, of course, what I have learned by inquiry. Pre- 
 vious to 1883 the joint committee used to make up the 
 lists and then the Legislature would annually pass a 
 printing act, and usually in the act would designate a 
 printer — that this newspaper or that man shall print. 
 
CHAELES S. ROBINSON. 543 
 
 designating, perhaps, one or two or three ; but it was 
 not open to competition, I think, until 1883. 
 
 Senator Daly — The joint committee in most every 
 case were reputable and responsible gentlemen. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I take it, sir, that while the joint com- 
 mittee have passed upon it, I thiuk, as a matter of fact, 
 that everything that has come in the way of reports, 
 substantially everything, has been printed. There has 
 been no discrimination. The only thing that has been 
 passed upon is to say how many copies. 
 
 Senator Skirn?. — And it there is any extravagance it 
 has been on that line — ordering more copies than were 
 necessary ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — And then printing things which in the 
 judgment of some might not be necessary. The law 
 seems to contemplate that it shall be weeded out and 
 only such things as are of sufficient importance shall be 
 printed, but I think the only discrimination which has 
 been made in regard to it, as a rule, has been to say how 
 many copies shall be printed. 
 
 Senator Daly — Have you made a comparison between 
 the rates for translation during the last six or seven 
 years and the rates prior to that ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — E"o, sir ; I didn't go into the translating 
 subject at all, except to lay before the Committee a 
 table last week, giving the gross amount paid for trans- 
 lating each year as one of the necessary expenses of 
 German printing, my purpose being to show the 
 expense, and the discussion which arose over trans- 
 lation was as unexpected to me as to anybody else. 
 That is as far as I have gone with it. 
 
 Senator Daly — I am informed that the charges made 
 ■ for translation were at least 50 per cent, less or 100 per 
 cent, less than what it was prior, during the last six or 
 seven years. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — At 100 per cent, less we would get it for 
 nothing. 
 
 Senator Daly — I mean 50 per cent. less. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have some evidence to-day on the sub- 
 ject here. 
 
 Charles S. Robinson sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A, Printer. 
 
544 CHARLES S. EOBINSON. 
 
 Q. Where do you live ? A. Princeton. 
 Q. Conduct your business there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. You have done German printing for the State ? Yes, sir. 
 Q. In 1889, 1 observe, you were awarded a contract at 35 cents 
 per thousand ems. You bid for only part of the German print- 
 ing, did you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And in 1890 you got the Factory and Workshop Report, 
 at 45 cents? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you bid for only part? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And you were very much lower than the other bidders, 
 were you not? A. I don't know what the others were. 
 
 Q. Didn't you know, when the bids were opened? A. Wo, 
 sir; only one year. 
 
 Q. In 1891 the Heinz Printing Company underbid you on 
 everything, didn't they, and got the whole German printing ? A. 
 One year they did ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In 1892 you got the Factory and Workshop Report again, 
 at 45 cents, did you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, in 1893, the whole contract tor the German printing 
 seems to have been awarded to the " ISTew Jersey Freie Zeitung," 
 of Newark, at 76 cents, although I observe that you bid on some 
 of the work at 45 cents, and on certain other of it at 55. Why 
 didn't one of those contracts go to you, as usual? A. Well, 
 now, I just figured on that big job as a feeler. I wasn't able to 
 do it. The' little job was the only one I really had the facility 
 to do. 
 
 Q. One of your bids, filed November 28, 1893, which I now 
 show you, was for that same little job, the Factory and Work- 
 shop report, at 45 cents. Why didn't you take the contract, 
 when your only rival bid 76 ? A. \ had to give up all ; I had to 
 give the whole job up. 
 
 Q. Who said that ? -4. I think the Comptroller told me that. 
 Q. Your other bid was for a thousand copies of the- State 
 Board of Education at 55, was it not? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And you didn't get that either? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Your only rival that you had was the " New Jersey Freie 
 Zeitung," wasn't it? A. \. don't know. 
 
 y. At 76 cents. By the bids it appears that they were much 
 higher. Did you go down to see the Comptroller about it? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you consent to have your bid of 45 cents defeated by 
 a bid of 76 cents? A. Well, they said — I understood I would 
 have to give the whole job up; I suggested to the Comptroller 
 if I could do the whole job — 
 
CHARLES S. ROBINSON. 545 
 
 A. (By Chairman Voorhees) — A little louder, Mr. RobiDson. 
 They talk louder down in Princeton ? A. The trainmen do. I 
 would like to have withdrawn the large bid, but I understood 
 from the Comptroller I couldn't do it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Who was the Comptroller that year ? 
 A. Heppenheimer. 
 
 Q. The very specifications on which you bid allowed you to 
 put in a bid on any item, did they not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you did put in two separate bids? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. One for the Factory Report, which you had before printed ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the other for the Board ot Education Report, which 
 you then branched out towards for the first time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you see anybody else besides the Comptroller about it ? 
 A . I think I had a conversation with Mr. Kuser. 
 
 Q. He was here, too, was he? A. 1 think I saw him in 
 Trenton. 
 
 Q. Why were you induced to give up that contract ? A. Well, 
 I asked them if they wouldn't take that ofl of my hands at that 
 price, and they said they couldn't; I didn't expect to get that big 
 job. 
 
 Q. Did the Comptroller find any fault with you for backing 
 down? A. He said, "the next time you bid, don't bid on any 
 more than you can do." 
 
 Q. He wouldn't give you one without the two? A. He didn't 
 say that absolutely, but I understood that. 
 
 Q. From whom did you understand it, if he didn't say it? A. 
 From Mr. Heppenheimer. 
 
 Q. Did you talk it over with the other bidders ? J.. I had a 
 conversation with Mr. Kuser. I asked him to take that big job, 
 and he said no, he couldn't do it ; he says, here is a union ; he 
 says, you can do that work cheap in Princeton if you can do the 
 work, and I says I didn't expect to do that work ; I would like 
 to have him take the work off my hands ; he said they couldn't 
 do it at that price. 
 
 Q. Now, in 1892, you put in for 2,500 copies of the Quarter- 
 master-General's Report and 3,500 State Normal School and 7,000 
 Factory and Workshop, and 1,000 of the same in German? A. 
 Those were in English. 
 
 Q. Only one in German. You had a larger capacity for English ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It was only in German, then, that your capacity was limited ? 
 A. I had two German printers. 
 
 35 SH 
 
546 CHARLES S. EOBINSON. 
 
 Q. You went out of the State printing entirely that year, 1893^ 
 did you not? A. 1 think I bid on some others; I am not sure. 
 
 Q. Did you get anything? A. Ifo, sir ; they got English print- 
 ing done too low for me. 
 
 Q. Npw, this German printing was pretty profitable at 76 
 cents that year, wasn*t it? A. It would have been to me if I 
 could have done it, 
 
 Q. Did you enter into any arrangement with the other bidders 
 by which you were to withdraw ? A. They said they would give 
 me back the little job. 
 
 Q. Did they? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you print it, in fact? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In 1893? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It went in under the name of the " Freie Zeituog ? " A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So they got 76 cents for it and gave you something less ? 
 A . They gave me the same thing. 
 
 Q. You got 76 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I understand it, I think ; so that although your bid was 45 
 cents, that by this arrangement whereby the Comptroller refused 
 to take your bid, you really got 76 for that year? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — As I understand, this work was di- 
 vided up, was it not ? .4. I never had anything to do with divid- 
 ing it up. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — No one office did all the work, did 
 they? A. That I don't know; I never bid before but tor the 
 one job. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirih) — And that was all you were capable 
 of doing? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairmau Voorhees) — I didn't quite understand why 
 they didn't award you the contract at that figure. What expla- 
 nation have you to give for that ? -4. I told the Comptroller I 
 couldn't very well do it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do all the work, you mean? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees.) — But then you only bid for part 
 of it? A. Yes, I put in for the Board of Education and the 
 Factory and Workshops, that I had been used to doing. That 
 I could do very easily. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Why weren't those two reports 
 handed over to you? A. Well, I asked the Comptroller if he 
 would allow me to withdraw the bid, because I wasn't in a posi- 
 tion to do the large job, although I had secured a couple of 
 bondsmen. 
 
CHARLES S. EOBINSON. 547 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Oflered a bondsman ? A. Sen- 
 ator Skirm oflered kindly to go on the bond, for one, and Joseph 
 H. Brewer. 
 
 Q. Where did this interview in Trenton take place, in the 
 Comptroller's office ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Mr. Kuser was here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And you were here ? Yes, sir. 
 Q. Any other bidder ? A. IsTo, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Only the two bidders? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. There were your two bids, and right beside them lay the 
 others, all before the Comptroller. Do I understand you to say 
 that the Comptroller said he couldn't award you that one because 
 you wouldn't also take that one? A. Well, now, I can't say 
 whether it was put specific before him. 
 
 Q. How was it put before him? What did he say? A. I 
 wrote him a letter, which I suppose may be on record. 
 
 Q. I am speaking now of the interview when you were here 
 upon the occasion when the Comptroller said something sharp. 
 A. I don't remember the exact words, but I understood him to 
 say that the award was to be made in the whole or none at all. 
 Q. Wholly or none, take it all or none of it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. He wouldn't award you that bid and reject that one? ^1. 
 That is what I understood him to say. 
 
 Q. Although that is for one piece of work and that is for 
 another piece of work ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Although the specifications on which you bid explicitly say 
 you may bid seperately on any piece of work? A. Yes; well, 
 you see the contract would be all one contract. 
 
 Senator Daly — What are the respective bids ? 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Robinson bid for the Factory and 
 Workshop contract "which he had had for several years, 
 45 cents ; then in this bid he put in the State Board of 
 Education, which he had never printed, in German, 
 which is a big book, 55 cents, which is what I now hold 
 in my hand. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And which, as I understand Mr. 
 Robinson to say, he was unable to do that work because 
 of its size and magnitude ? 
 Witness — Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Kuser bid for all this German work, 
 I think. I think other things are in that he didn't bid 
 for at all. On this Taxation Report he bid seventy-six 
 cents. 
 
548 CHAKLES S. ROBINSON. 
 
 Q. Now, when you made this little arrangement with Kuser 
 about getting it any way, the factory part of it, I suppose that 
 was not in the Comptroller's office, or was that outside? A. 
 No ; I had seen him before. 
 
 Q. Where had you seen him before ? A. In Princeton. 
 
 Q. He came to Princeton to see you about it ? A. Yes; I 
 wanted him to take this job off my hands. 
 
 Q. Of course, you knew that your were lower than he ? A. 1 
 had been informed that I had the contract. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That you had the contract ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So he came down to see you about it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you made up your mind that it was a little too heavy 
 for you ? A. Y^'es, sir. 
 
 Q. But that you could handle it at seventy-six cents ? J.. I 
 could handle it at forty-five. 
 
 Q. No; but you didn't handle it short of seventy-six. Did 
 you get anything on account of this one from Mr. Kuser ? A. 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much did you get? A. I was to get .§500. 
 
 Q. Did you get it? A. Y"es, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got it yet? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You didn't have to give any of it back ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees : 
 
 Q, Was that arrangement made with Mr. Kuser before you 
 found out you couldn't go ahead with the contract for the Board 
 of Education Report, and before your interview with Comptroller 
 Heppenheimer? A. Yes, sir; I think it was. 
 
 Q. That is, after you had put in your bids at 55 cents and the 
 contract had been awarded you, then' Mr. Kuser came to you and 
 gave you $500? A. No, sir; he didn't; he said if they awarded 
 it to me — 
 
 Q. If they awarded it to you ? A. If they awarded it to him ; 
 if the Comptroller consents to change this and there is one vol- 
 ume — 
 
 Q. If the Comptroller awarded the Board of Education to Mr. 
 Kuaer he would give you |500 ; then after that you came to the 
 Comptroller and stated that you couldn't do the Board of Edu- 
 cation; is that right? A. Well, I don't know whether I had 
 written to him before or not. 
 
 Q. As a matter of tact you made the arrangement with Kuser 
 before you saw the Comptroller ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
(JHART,ES S. KOBIxVSON. 549 
 
 Examined by Senator Daly : 
 
 Q." I understood you to say that you had repudiated your con- 
 tract — in other words, that you couldn't pe form it, and asked 
 him to be relieved from it. Isn't that bo ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When you received notice that the contract had bee a 
 awarded to you, you then considered the tact that you couldn't 
 do that Board of Education work; did you then notify the State 
 Comptroller? A. Yes, air. 
 
 Q. Did you then ask to be relieved from your contract? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, then, was it pending that time that Mr. Kaser called 
 upon you and stated to you that if you were relieved from your 
 contract that he would give you $500? A. It depended on 
 whether there were two volumes or one. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What depended upon that? A. 
 Whether I was to get |500 — the size of the job. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — These two publications as turned out? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Daly — I want to get at why this man accepted 
 1500 from Mr. Kuser. 
 
 Witness — I wanted them to take the job, and they 
 
 said they couldn't possibly do it for my figures. I saya, 
 
 " You can have this job for nothing and leave me on 
 
 this little job." 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — See if I can make it clear to you. 
 
 The contract was awarded to you for this work at 45 cents for 
 
 the Factory Report and 55 for the other ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Did you find, after your proposal had 
 been accepted, that with the magnitude of the work you couldn't 
 do that work in your office ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Allow me to ask, Mr. Corbin — as I 
 understand it, this in the year 1893 has just been deliv- 
 ered, this part ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — One of those volumes, I believe, has just 
 now been delivered. I think I ought to say, however, 
 that this is largely due to the negligence of the State 
 Board of Education in not giving the copy. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And not on account of the magui- 
 tude of the work ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I may say that the State Board 
 of Education did not know that their report was to be 
 printed in German, and that probably explains the delay 
 on the part of the State Board of Education. 
 
550 CHARLES S. ROBINSON. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skiem. 
 
 Q. And then after you found the contract was awarded to' you, 
 and saw the magnitude of the work, you found it was impossible 
 for you to do this work ; and then Mr. Kuser called on you and 
 saw you and took this off your hands, provided you backed out 
 of it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In consideration of that, for any profit that you might have 
 had, he agreed and did give you $500? A. Yes, sir; the profit 
 would have been a good deal more if I could have done it. 
 
 Q. If you had had the facilities for doing this work you would 
 have done it at 55 cents and made some money ? A. Yes, sir; 
 I never would have giveu it up. 
 
 Q. But with your limited facilities it was impossible for you to 
 do this work? A. Yes, sir; I think I explained that to you at 
 the time, that I was very doubtful whether I could do it, but I 
 thought finally they would be willing to take it off my hands. 
 
 Q. I remember the day that you came ia and asked me to go 
 on your bond. You said you had a possibility of getting some 
 German work, and I then expressed my surprise to you that you 
 done any German work in your office. You said then that you 
 would go and see the size of it, and I don't think you ever came 
 back, except to say that you didn't get the work. A. I talked 
 with Mr. Bechtel; he said, •' You probably can do it; " I says, 
 " That is a pretty big job, and if they enforce the thirty-day rule 
 it would be impossible for me to do it." 
 
 Q. Therefore the thirty-day rule has not been enforced, be- 
 cause a year and a quarter or more has passed since that went 
 into the hands of the printer? A. That I don't know. 
 
 Q. Well, this is the report for 1893, and it is now 1895? A. 
 I think I could have made a couple of thousand dollars profit on 
 it it I had had it. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. You think from the Board of Education Report you could 
 have made at least |2,000 profit ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This small volume, made up of tables, which I now hold 
 in my hand, cost the State for printing §6,044 for one thousand 
 copies. That is exclusive of translation. Now look that over 
 and see if you don't raise the figure as to the profit that can be 
 made on this Board of Education Report. You could have made 
 $2,000 at 55 ? A. 1 thought so, easily. 
 
 Q. What could you make if you got 76 ? ^. I guess it would 
 have doubled it. 
 
EMIL KRAEUTLER. 551 
 
 Q. Observe that this first volume — which, by the way, has not 
 yet been paid for — observe that there is a matter of 400 pages of 
 tables also in that ; there is also an unusual amount y,of tabular 
 matter in this report, isn't there ? A. It changes eachjyear. 
 
 Q. It happens there is an unusual amount ? A. These reports 
 both seem to be larger than the specimens, a good ^deal. 
 
 Q. They are larger than any that have preceded^them, I think. 
 A. I think so. 
 
 Q. And therefore the job would be larger 1 A. 1 think the 
 job was about — 
 
 Q. "What do you estimate the profit at now, looking at the 
 books as they are ? A. We have no union in Princeton ; work is 
 done comparatively cheap; I don't know what they pay in 
 Newark. 
 
 Q. Suppose you got 76 cents for it ? ^. If I got 76 cents I 
 could do it at $10 a thousand ; I would make a lot of money; I 
 think they pay a great deal more money than that in Newark for 
 that work. 
 
 Q. Whereas the price for that in Newark, where union offices 
 exist, would be considerably higher than what you would have to 
 pay in Princeton ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What is the rate in Newark in union 
 offices ? A. I don't know ; 30 cents is all we pay ; I think it is 
 50 here. 
 
 Emil Kraeutler, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Newark. 
 
 Q. Your business is what ? .4. I am connected with the 
 *'■ New Jersey Deutsche Zeitung." 
 
 Q. And a printer, I suppose? A. No. 
 
 Q. Used to be a printer ? A. No ; I have only the business 
 •department. 
 
 Q. Did you ever bid on any of the State printing? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. In what years did you bid? A. Well, I guess I handled 
 our business in 1889. 
 
 Q. And you bid in 1891, didn't you, too? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you bid in 1892? A. I think I did; I don't remember. 
 
 Q. That is the last bid you put in, wasn't it? A. Yes, sir; 
 last bid I put in. 
 
 Q. You bid in 1893. This seems to have been mislaid. There 
 was a third bid in 1893. Now, I observe that in 1893 you bid 
 for the German printing 82 cents for composition for the Board 
 
552 FREDERICK FIBG. 
 
 of Health, Taxation, Education and Factories. You didn't get 
 the contract that year, did you ? A. Never got a contract. 
 
 Q. Your bid that year was a good deal higher than before,, 
 wasn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How happened that ? A, Well, that year — 
 
 Q. That is the year Mr. Kuser got it all ? A. Yes, sir. He 
 came to see me, and he told me, he says, " now, you know that 
 you never had a contract anyway awarded, and Mr. Heinz had 
 lost some money on it, and I have talked to Mr. Heinz, and Mr. 
 Heinz is willing to let me have the work " ; and he says, " what 
 are you going to do about it " ? He says, " you don't want it, 
 and you can't make it; you haven't any job business, anyway," 
 and he offered me a hundred dollars on a report — three reports 
 there were. 
 
 Q. One hundred dollars for each of the three ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He paid you the money, did he ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was about the time that you put in your bid 2 A. I 
 don't remember whether it was the day before or after. 
 
 Q. And so you put your bid in a little higher than his ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he got the contract and you got the $300? A. Yes,, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. That was all there was to it? A. Yes, sir; that is all. 
 
 Feederick Fieg, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you live ? A. Newark. 
 
 Q. What is your business ? A. Translator. 
 
 Q. Into what language do you translate? A. Well, English 
 into German. 
 
 Q. Did you translate some public documents for the State ? A. 
 I did. 
 
 Q. And who employed you to do that? A. John L. Kuser. 
 
 Q. What were the documents which you tran8la,ted ? A. All 
 of the reports. 
 
 Q. For what year? A. From 1886 to 1893. 
 
 Q. Well, Mr. Kuser didn't employ you to do all the translating 
 for those years? ^1. No, sir. 
 
 Q. But you mean you did the translating for his printing- 
 house? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Governor's messages? A. No. 
 
 Q. What then? A. Reports of Boards. 
 
 Q. Board of Health ? A. Yes, sir ; and Education and 
 Statistics. 
 
FREDERICK FIEG. 553 
 
 Q. There was no other translator, thoD, who employed you, but 
 Mr. Kuser came to you directly ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he paid your bill? A. Yes, sir ; always. 
 
 Q. You put in no bill to the 8tate ? A. No, sir, 
 
 Q. Look at these two yellow books, part 1st and 2d of the 
 Board of Education, Report of 1893. Did you translate those ? 
 A. Yes, sir; some sheets; I never got the whole book; trans- 
 lated only by sheets. 
 
 Q. Certain sheets came to you from Kuser's office and you 
 translated and returned ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is paid for translating to you? A. I got paid 17 
 cents for translating. 
 
 Q. 17 cents a page? A. Per English page, yes, sir; and three 
 cents tor proof-reading. 
 
 Q. Then you did all of the translator's and proof reader's work 
 that was necessary to turn it from English into German ? J.. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did it pass through anybody else's hands to have transla- 
 tion approved or justified? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. You handed it back to Kuser and then the proof sheets 
 came back from him ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And how soon after you handed your translation back to 
 Kuser would you get the proof sheets? A. Well, sometimes 
 after a week or two weeks. ' 
 
 Q. So that you were translating, proof-reading, from day to day 
 along both at the same time? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you were paid by the English page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The German pages, I understand, make about a third more ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was the price that you always got? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you translate any other work for the State? A. The 
 State laws. 
 
 Q. For whom did you translate the laws? A. For Mr. Kuser. 
 
 Q. What years? A. From 1888 to 1893, five years. 
 
 Q. And that came in the same years ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He handed you the English and you turned it into German ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he published that in his newspaper? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you translate for any other newspapers ? A. B"o. 
 
 Q. And did that pass through anybody else's hands but yours ? 
 A. Not as far as I know. 
 
 Q. You read the proof ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then it appeared in the paper? A. Yes, sir. 
 
554 IRWIN T. BUSSMAN. 
 
 Q. And was that at the same rate of compensation? A. No, 
 he paid ten cents a folio, 100 words. 
 
 Q. And that was for translating and proof-reading ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. How much would that amount to per English page ? A. 
 I can't tell, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that higher or lower than the other rate? A. It is 
 higher. 
 
 Q. Somewhat higher? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. ISTot very much higher, is it ? A. Well, it is better paid 
 than the reports. 
 
 Q. I show you now the tables in the Board of Education re- 
 ports; the figures, of course, require no translation? A. TSo. 
 
 Q. And did you translate the side-notes and headings? A. 
 Yes, sir; I did sometimes. 
 
 Q. Were they not the same from year to year ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, now, if you will look at that you will find that those 
 head-notes are the same perhaps on twenty pages? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were you paid for translating twenty pages or one ? A. 
 Well, for the tables I only got ten cents, when there were any 
 foot-notes. 
 
 Q. And a table is a page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But if there were no foot-notes how much? A. Only the 
 proof-reading. 
 
 Q. How much for proof-reading ? A. Three cents. 
 
 Q. But if there are twenty pages with the same head-notes 
 across them, you are paid for one translation only, and not for 
 twenty? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The State paid for twenty. 
 
 Irwin T. Bussman, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Newark. 
 
 Q. Occupation? A. Journalist. 
 
 Q. And do you know the German tongue ? A. 1 Ao; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you translated from English into German for the use 
 of the State? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you translate? A. I translated different reports. 
 
 Q. Laws? A. No; not in former years ; yes, laws. 
 
 Q. Well, for what years did you translate reports? A. For 
 quite a number of years. 
 
 Q. Up to the present time ? A. Up to last year. 
 
 Q. Who employed you to translate ? A. The " Freie Zeitung," 
 or at least the business manager for the " Freie Zeitung." 
 
IRWIN T. BUSSMAN. 555 
 
 Q. Did you assist in the translation of this Board of Education 
 Report for 1893, of which Mr. Fieg has spoken? A. T think I 
 did the translation ; I think I did all of it. 
 
 Q. Mr. Fieg thought he did some of it? A. It might be the 
 report before this. 
 
 Q. And did you do the proof-reading as well? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did it pass through anybody's hands but yours in going 
 from English into German? A. I delivered the finished work 
 to Mr. Kuser, I believe. 
 
 Q. And then you read the proof as he printed it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He printed as fast as you gave it to him, didn't he ? A, 
 Yes, sir; the copy accumulated until he had enough of it, and 
 it went through the hands of the printer. 
 
 Q. At what rate were you paid for this work? A. Twenty 
 cents a page. 
 
 Q. Did that include proof-reading? A. I was allowed three 
 cents extra for proofreading. 
 
 Q. Making twenty-three cents in all ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How about the tables ? A. I was allowed three cents for 
 arranging the tables, if there was any matter to arrange, trans- 
 lating headlines, or any matter on the page that required transla- 
 tion. 
 
 Q. After you had translated headlines once, if those headlines 
 ran through a number of pages you were not paid — A. I only 
 charged for once. 
 
 Q. Have you translated for anybody else except the " New 
 Jersey Freie Zeitung " ? A. Not lately; I might have translated 
 one or two reports for some other firm. 
 
 Q. Did you translate the laws for the same people ? J.. I did 
 not. 
 
 Q. That was years ago that you had the translation of laws ? 
 A. That was years ago. 
 
 Examined by Senator Daly. 
 
 Q. A page like this you see, is it not harder to translate that 
 than it would be a solid page, and take more time than a solid 
 page of English matter ? A. No. 
 
 Q. It would not? A. No. 
 
 (Eeferring to pages 248 and 249 of the second volume 
 of the Board of Education Report.) 
 
 Q. Isn't more time necessary to look over it? A. No; to 
 translate an English page takes about three-quarters of an hour, 
 and you can translate this in about 20 minutes, I think. 
 
556 PRINTING, ADVERTISING AND STATIONERY. 
 
 Q. And how about the printed matter on the margin there? 
 A. Well, I had nothing to do with the figures, only translating 
 the headlines or explanatory matter. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — English and German are about alike 
 in figures ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — And on the left side of the page 
 there isn't much translation, about Monmouth Junction 
 and Cranberry Marsh, North Cranberry and South Cran- 
 berry and Jamesburg, and you can read that, Senator. 
 
 Senator Daly — I can read most any of the foreign 
 languages. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I understand the Senator is well 
 up in Italian. 
 
 Printing, Advertising and Stationery. 
 
 1891 $174,694 64 
 
 1892 177,998 93 
 
 1893 186,9 8 30 
 
 1894 191,835 23 
 
 This is not all. Many other items are included in the 
 accounts where money is paid over directly to the of- 
 ficer or board to be expended. In those cases there is 
 (as a rale) no separate voucher on file in the Comptrol- 
 ler's office to show how much was expended for print- 
 ing and advertising. Those items can only be discov- 
 ered by an examination of the accounts kept by each 
 Buch board or oflacer. 
 
 Summary of Moneys Paid by State of New Jersey for Printing 
 Advertising and Stationery. 
 
 1891. 
 
 No. 1, Court Expenses $820 83 
 
 No. 1^, Court Expenses 2,328 77 
 
 No. 3 and 3J, Militia 911 05 
 
 No. 4 and 4J, Legislature 6,906 27 
 
 No. 6, Rebuilding Assembly Chamber 69 30 
 
 No. 8 and 81, Advertising 89,374 65 
 
 No. 9, State Prison Maintenance 722 95 
 
 No. 13, Appropriation to furnish camp ground 250 40 
 
 No. 13J, Appropriation to furnish camp ground , 9 50 
 
 No. 15 and 15.2, State House expenses 83 75 
 
 No. 17 and 17J, Printing 43,272 95 
 
 No. 20, Alterations and additions to State House 31 20 
 
 No. 22 and 221, State House 4,438 80 
 
 No. 23, State Board of Assessors 216 90 
 
 No. 23 J, State Board of Assessors 2,561 85 
 
PRINTING, ADVERTISING AND STATIONERY. 557 
 
 Ko. 24 and 24J, Geological Survey 15,596 83 
 
 No. 26 and 26J, Stationery and Postage 8,728 01 
 
 No. 27 and 27J, Tax Commission 141 11 
 
 No. 30 aad 30J, Appropriation to furnish new Capitol 200 00 
 
 No. 35, Legal Expenses, 158 30 
 
 No. 35i, Legal Expenses 290 00 
 
 No. 37 & 37J, State Board of Health 1,364 85 
 
 No. 40 & 40i Binding 3.679 10 
 
 No. 42 & 42J, State Library 302 60 
 
 No. 47 & 47i, Incidentals 45 00 
 
 No. 59 & 59J, Escheats Account 13 20 
 
 No. 5 & 5i, Normal School Extension 31 30 
 
 No. 8 & 8J, State Superintendent 1,868 57 
 
 No. 9, School Fund Expenses 25 00 
 
 No. 9J, School Fund Expenses 81 00 
 
 No. 12J, State Board of Education 70 00 
 
 Total $174 694 04 
 
 1892. 
 
 No. 1, Court Expenses 3,207 83 
 
 No. 2, Rebuilding Assembly Chamber 33 28 
 
 No. 5, Legislature 6,790 97 
 
 No. 6, Militia : 1,720 68 
 
 No. 8, State Prison Maintenance 659 45 
 
 No. 10, Advertising 74,511 11 
 
 No. 12, State House Expenses 355 40 
 
 No. 15, Printing 50,101 69 
 
 No. 20, Furnishing Assembly Chamber 22 30 
 
 No. 21, Stationery and Postage 12,889 93 
 
 No. 22, Geological Survey 7,634/35 
 
 No. 23, Alterations and additions in State House 6 30 
 
 No. 30, Corporation tax expenses 150 75 
 
 No. 31, Law and Equity Reports 1,117 20 
 
 No. 32, State Board of Health 2,576 85 
 
 No. 33, Record of Officers and Soldiers of the late War 8,995 fO 
 
 No. 36, N. J. Commission to World's Columbian Exposition 143 12 
 
 No. 37, Revision of Statutes 337 48 
 
 No. 38, Legal expenses 1,359 75 
 
 No. 39, Contested Election, Stuhr v. McDonald 9 75 
 
 No. 40, State Prison Repairs 42 09 
 
 No. 42, Bureau of Statistics .*... 25 00 
 
 No. 47, State Library 238 25 
 
 No. 48, Binding 2,626 00 
 
 No. 8, (Schools) State Superintendent 1,491 80 
 
 No. 12, (Schools) State Board of Education 43 25 
 
 No. 16, (Schools) School Census _ 509 35 
 
 Total (1892) 177,998 93 
 
 1893. 
 
 No. 1, Court Expenses 3,053 71 
 
 No. 3, Legislature 13,704 93 
 
 No. 6, Militia 1,280 39 
 
 No. 6, N. J. Commission World's Columbian Exposition 
 
558 PRINTING, ADVERTISING AND STATIONERY. 
 
 No. 7, Advertising $90,314 20 
 
 No. 12, State Prison Maintenance 805 72 
 
 No. 14, State House Expenses, 410 78 
 
 No. 16, Printing 46,315 90 
 
 No. 18, Ventilation of Senate Chamber 30 60 
 
 No. 23, Stationery and Postage 10,797 13 
 
 No. 29, Revision of Statutes 1,114 86 
 
 No. 30, Geological Survey 3,204 34 
 
 No. 31, Corporation Tax Expenses 1,156 73 
 
 No. 33, State Board of Arbitration 296 54 
 
 No. 34, State Board of Health 1,431 90 
 
 No. 35, Agriculture 14 40 
 
 No. 36, Legal Expenses 897 86 
 
 No. 37, Law and Equity Reports 348 40 
 
 No. 38, Electrical Subways 33 25 
 
 No. 39, Bureau of Statistics 368 45 
 
 No. 42, Record of Ofacers and Soldiers of Late War 3,472 00 
 
 No. 43, State Library 615 70 
 
 No. 44, Rebuilding Assembly Chamber 2 00 
 
 No. 47, Binding 3,110 50 
 
 No. 51, Inauguration Expenses 94 22 
 
 No. 7, State Superintendent (School Fund) 3,959 94 
 
 No. 9, School Census (School Fund) 98 85 
 
 Total (1893) $186,938 30 
 
 1894. 
 
 No. 1, Court Expenses $1,193 75 
 
 No. IJ, Court Expenses 1,823 44 
 
 No. 2, Militia 619 68 
 
 No. 2i, Militia 1,115 63 
 
 No. 5, Legislature 451 03 
 
 No 5^, Legislature 6,318 89 
 
 Nos. 9 and 9J, Advertising 78,338 51 
 
 No. 11, State Prison Maintenance 137 85 
 
 No. 11 o, State Prison Maintenance 591 19 
 
 No. 13i, Public Roads 117 65 
 
 No. 14, State House Expenses Ill 90 
 
 No. 14J, State House Expenses 289 71 
 
 No. 16, Printing 19,068 98 
 
 No. 16J, Printing 44,012 10 
 
 No. 23J, Corporation Tax Expenses 475 65 
 
 No. 26, Geological Survey 2,446 75 
 
 No. 262, Geological Survey 2,207 40 
 
 No. 27, State Board of Arbitration 56 40 
 
 No. 27J, State Board of Arbitration , 129 81 
 
 No. 31, Revision of Statutes '. 1,914 28 
 
 No. 31J, Revision of Statutes 948 U 
 
 No. 32, Stationery and Postage 2,997 57 
 
 No. 32i, Stationery and Postage 4,449 67 
 
 No. 36 and 36J, I-aw and Equity Reports 9,534 70 
 
 No. 39, State Board of Health 44 00 
 
 No. 39J, State Board of Health 718 16 
 
 No. 41, Legal Expenses 1^554 78 
 
 No. 442, Bureau of Statistics 92 44 
 
SAMUEL A. SMITH. 559 
 
 No. 45 and 4aJ, Preservation of Records |4,525 43 
 
 No. 46, Electrical Subways 16 00 
 
 No. 47 and 47J, Binding, 2,847 76 
 
 No. 49, State Library 133 55 
 
 No. 49J, State Library 159 60 
 
 No. 54, Constitutional CommisBion 366 85 
 
 No. 7, State Superintendent (School Fund) _. 427 75 
 
 No. 7 J, State Superintendent (School Fund) 986 08 
 
 No. 12J, School Census 412 15 
 
 Total (1894) $191,835 23 
 
 Samuel A. Smith, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I summoned you for last week, but you were not able to 
 comedown. You were formerly county clerk of Essex county? 
 A. I was. 
 
 Q. I understand yoa desire to make some statement. Would 
 you like to make any statement with regard to the subject of the 
 fees that are in arrears ? A. 1 wanted to say this : that as soon 
 as the controversy or question was raised — the matter of fees — I 
 ceased making reports until the matter was settled ; there are 
 some twenty odd thousand dollars in dispute between myself and 
 the county. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Was there any between you and 
 the State ? A. Yes ; Judge Depue is entitled to fees as Judge of 
 the Court of Oyer and Terminer, and those fees should not be 
 returned. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — And the county wouldn't pay 
 those to you ? A. There is some question — they are in dispute. 
 
 Q. Then you couldn't very well make a return; I think that 
 is definitely settled. A. I can't make a return until I know that 
 I have a right to collect them. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Is the chariot in Essex moving 
 along well enough so that you can make returns soon? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. The part in dispute is that portion of the judge's fees which 
 are to be paid by the county ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There is no trouble about that part of the fees which comes 
 from the civil cases? A. ISTot on the part of the county, but 
 there are those that are in arrears. 
 
 Q. What, members of the bar ? J.. I am sorry to say it, but 
 such is the fact. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You will acquit the members of 
 the Committee ? A. Yes, sir ; if they all stood in the oflBce as 
 the members of the Committee we would have no trouble, but 
 under that law — if you will excuse me — it is impossible to have 
 
560 SAMUEL A. SMITH. 
 
 settlements. In the first place, it is the practice in Essex county, 
 and has been since I have known anything about it, some fifteen 
 years, to charge up after the term ends from various records in 
 the ofiice and books, the fees that are due to the clerk and the 
 court. In the hurry and bustle of the opening of the court we 
 have not the time to make up the returns in the ten days that are 
 allowed. 
 
 Q. You run one term right on until the next one begins? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your three terms occupy the whole year ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 and the flills are not sent out until the term is finished, or some- 
 time after the term is finished ; there is no way of obliging fees 
 to be paid in cash and the clerk getting all that he is entitled to. 
 There are some — I don't know what to call them, whether com- 
 mon law or other fees, that are charged in bills of cost where 
 there are no motions made, motions for rules and such things. 
 If you were to charge cash those items wouldn't come in. 
 
 Q. I understand that the law is pretty plain that the clerk shall 
 return all the fees which are charged up for the services of the 
 judges; in other words, every motion or every order that is 
 made. A. There is no motion fees. 
 
 Q. Well, there will be 34 cents or a dollar, or what the law 
 may allow for the services of the judge ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, those are to be charged up within ten days after the 
 close of the term and the clerk is then to remit them. A. Re- 
 mit a report ? 
 
 Q. Remit the funds. A. So much as he has received. 
 
 §. It doesn't say so. A. Out of the first moneys he shall re- 
 ceive, the law says. 
 
 Q. That would take his fees. A. It is considered to mean 
 fees received on account of the judges services. 
 
 Q. I don't think that construction has been put upon it by any 
 other clerk we have heard from, Mr. Smith. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. ISTo; we had one here who paid out of his own pocket 
 $250. The State can hardly wait for its revenues to be collected 
 from every individual ho may see fit to trust. The law allows 
 him to get the fees in advance, and if he sees fit to trust that is 
 his look out. A. The law doesn't mean that he should pay the 
 fees if he doesn't receive them, as I understand it, and the law 
 doesn't allow the clerk to collect fees in advance ; now, you take, 
 for instance, a summons is issued ; it is never signed or sealed by 
 
SAMUEL A. SMITH. 561 
 
 the clerk; it is done in the attorney's office, and the judge's 
 name is signed to it. 
 
 Q. The cleris need not enter it until he gets his tees. A. 
 Where ? 
 
 Q. In the docket? A. There is no such book as that in law. 
 
 Q. It is called the register in some counties ; tue law provides 
 expressly for it. A. I understand the legal records are the 
 clerk's books ; that may be entered in the clerk's book. 
 
 Q. When did your term of office expire ? A. 1892. 
 
 Q. Then your reason that there is hurry and bustle in the 
 office for ten days after the term is no longer the excuse ? A. 
 No ; I was then only referring to the inability to make the 
 returns. 
 
 Q. Have your returns all been made? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Why should they not be made when 
 you have been out of office for three years ; why should your 
 returns not be made? -4. As I stated some time ago, the funds 
 are in dispute, and while there are twenty-odd thousand dollars 
 due me I didn't think it proper for me to lay out money ; I am 
 laying out sufficient amount now. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. By the record I have here I see that on the returns which 
 you have made up to April, 1890, by your own showing, there is 
 $2,022.70 due the State? A. Yes, sir; that may be. 
 
 Q. And that you have made no returns for the September and 
 December terms, 1890, nor for any of the three terms of 1891, 
 nor for April and September terms of 1892, making seven terms 
 in all that yon have made no return for? A. That may be 
 correct. 
 
 Q. The Comptroller furnished me these figures. Now, hasn't 
 sufficient time elapsed to at least make a return ? A. It has ; but 
 how could I make a return when I possibly may not be able to 
 collect them ; they may not be legal fees. 
 
 Q. Why not advise with some of your fellow county clerks ; 
 you are more in arrears than anybody else 1 A. I conducted my 
 own office without the intervention of other clerks. 
 
 Q. I hope you will be able to conduct it without the interven- 
 tion of the State. A. I hope so. 
 
 Q. What is the trouble about making returns ? A. There isn't 
 any trouble other than I have stated. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— Then why don't you do it? A. That 
 is the only reason. I intend to make the returns as soon as I can 
 
 36 SH 
 
562 TREASURY DEPARTMENT. 
 
 arrange these matters, but I coulda't possibly do it sooner. The 
 clerks ought to be permitted to charge cash. 
 
 Q. Allow me to call your attention to the fact that the Clerk 
 in Chancery does, and that he requires every member of the bar 
 to make a deposit with him of $25, $50 or $100, according as the 
 practice may be, which is there on deposit against the Chancellor's 
 fees, and that we are to keep with nim constantly against those 
 fees. Why wouldn't that work just as well in Essex county ? 
 A. Why, it might, only it is much easier for Essex county to 
 look after the members of the bar than it would be if they were 
 scattered all over the State. We have a more intimate knowledge 
 of the members of the bar of a county. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Clerk Wrightson last week said 
 that some of these matters in litigation were being cleared up. 
 That is the case? A. Yes, sir. It is now in the hands of the 
 counsel for the Board of Freeholders, and T received a letter from 
 him some two or three days ago saying that he would be able 
 very shortly to take the matter up. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — And then these matters will be 
 cleared up? A. Yes, sir; and the report made and the money 
 turned into the State, less the 5 per cent. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Chairman, I desire to open up an 
 entirely new subject, and that is the matter of the bal- 
 ances of cash in the hands of the treasurer and the care 
 and disposition of them. The law respecting the Trea- 
 surer's office, passed in 1846, will be found in the Re- 
 vision under the head of " Treasury," at page 1213. By 
 section 6 it is made the duty of the Treasurer to receive 
 and keep the moneys of the State and disburse the same 
 agreeably to law, and take receipts for all moneys which 
 he shall pay, to keep accounts of expenditures and what 
 is due the State, to superintend the collection of revenue, 
 to direct the prosecution of delinquencies of officers of 
 the revenue, and for debts that are due the State, to 
 make reports and give information to either branch of 
 the Legislature, and generally to perform all such ser- 
 vices relative to the finances as he shall be directed to 
 perform. By the 11th section, it is provided that the 
 Treasurer shall, from time to time, make deposits as 
 Treasurer in one or more of the chartered banks of this 
 State, within three days after receiving the same, and the 
 moneys so deposited shall be placed to his account as 
 Treasurer. He shall always keep a bank-book, and shall 
 
TREASURY DEPARTMENT. 563 
 
 have it balanced, etc.; lay it before the Legislative 
 Committee. 
 
 By the 19th section of the act, which is a supplement 
 passed in 1867, it is provided that the words " Chartered 
 banks of this State " shall be considered to include the 
 National Banks. 
 
 By the 14th section of the act it is provided that it 
 shall be lawful for the Treasurer, and it is hereby made 
 his duty to loan, at the best rate of interest he can pro- 
 cure, not exceeding lawful interest on pledges of United 
 States stock at a rate not above its par value as collateral 
 security, any surplus money in the Treasury of this 
 State, not otherwise appropriated nor already author- 
 ized to be invested by the Trustees of the School Fund, 
 as the same shall from time to time accrue. It shall be 
 the duty of the Treasurer to loan the same on such 
 terms of credit as will enable him to receive the said 
 moneys again so as to meet the demands on the Treas- 
 ury. That is the act of 1846. By the Comptroller's act 
 which was passed in 1865, the 26th section in the 
 Revision, it is provided that the Comptroller shall coun- 
 tersign and register all checks, &c., and no loans shall 
 be made by the Treasurer unless with the concurrence 
 of the Comptroller. That is on page 1217 of the 
 Revision. By the 25th section of the same page it 
 is also made the duty of the Comptroller to superintend 
 the collection of the revenue, to take general charge and 
 supervision of the rights, interests and property of the 
 State, and institute and direct prosecutions against 
 delinquent officers of revenue and for just claims and 
 debts due to the State, and to draw all the warrants on 
 the Treasury, &c. 
 
 You will observe that this Comptroller's act to some 
 extent supersedes the Treasurer's duties in the matter 
 of supervision of the State's collection of revenue and 
 the serving of its interest in these divers respects that 1 
 have mentioned. But it is clear that the acta provided 
 idv a scheme which requires constant concurrence and 
 co-operation of the Treasurer and Comptroller. The 
 Comptroller is the supervisor and auditor of the State, 
 and draws his warrants, which are to be honored by the 
 Treasurer, who is not at all relieved from his duties and 
 watchfulness with regard to the fund of the State, but 
 he is not the auditor. 
 
564 TREASURY DEPARTMENT. 
 
 It has come to the knowledge of the Committee, by 
 numerous published reports that have been printed in 
 the newspapers, that some of the funds of the State have 
 been deposited in Burlington county and vicinity, and 
 public charges have been made with reference to the 
 collection of interest thereon or some sort of considera- 
 tion therefor. It has seemed to counsel and to the 
 Chairman of the Committee that it was but right that 
 the truth should be known about it. Some very per- 
 sistent and possibly serious statements have been made 
 •with reference to it, and I will therefore ask the present 
 Treasurer and the two previous Treasurers, whose terms 
 together cover the period which I wish to inquire about, 
 to make their statement to the Committee, and I shall 
 also present some other evidence with reference to it. 
 
 I have asked the Treasurer to prepare a list showing 
 the balance in the bank at the end of the fiscal year of 
 1890, 1891, 1892, 1893 and 1894. 
 
 I call your attention, first, to the fact that the Trea- 
 surer has three funds in his hands : First, what is called 
 the " State Fund" or general funds of the State, appli- 
 cable to the maintenance of the State government; 
 second, the school moneys, or what is known as the 
 " School Fund ; " and, thirdly, he has what may be 
 known as the " Railroad Moneys," or moneys deposited 
 with him by the railroad companies that have been in- 
 corporated, and who are required, as an earnest of their 
 ' "" good faith, to deposit $2,000 per mile for every mile of 
 
 railroad which they intend to construct, which is from 
 time to time returned to them. It is made the Trear 
 surer's duty to be the custodian of that money while it 
 is in the hands of the State, for really it is a deposit 
 with the State in earnest of the railroad's good faith to 
 build the road provided in their charter — of their in- 
 tention to build the railroad. I will ofter these state- 
 ments if the Committee will receive them. The first 
 statement, October Slst, 1890, which was the end of one 
 of the fiscal years when Col. Toftey was the Treasurer. 
 On that date the balance of the State account was 
 $433,000 deposited in the following banks : 
 
 Banks — 
 
 National State Bank, Camden 123,894 21 
 
 Farmers' National Bank, Mount Holly 53,249 15 
 
 Mechanics' National Bank, Trenton 101,560 23 
 
TREASURY DEPARTMENT. 565 
 
 First National Bank, Jersey City $66,270 80 
 
 Moorestown National Bank 25,592 78 
 
 Union National Bank, Mount Holly 26,542 88 
 
 Trenton Banking Company :.... 103,195 74 
 
 Hudson County National Bank, Jersey City 33,526 03 
 
 $433,831 82 
 
 State fund 5433,760 87 
 
 Local tax on railroad corporations, balance 70 96 
 
 $433,831 82 
 
 Then follows a statement of the School Moneys, 
 amounting at that time to $662,000. You understand 
 that these balances vary greatly at difierent times of the 
 year, and in different years ; at that time they amounted 
 to $662,000, and were deposited in the following 
 banks : 
 
 Banks — 
 
 Bordentown Banking Company f21,933 92 
 
 First National Bank, Trenton 6,512 58 
 
 Mechanics National Bank, Burlington 5,000 00 
 
 Mount Holly National Bank 15,000 00 
 
 Salem National Banking Company 10,000 00 
 
 Amwell National Bank, Lambertville 21,000 00 
 
 National State Bank, Elizabeth 10,000 00 
 
 Second National Bank, Red Bank 5,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Paterson 50,000 00 
 
 Hunterdon County National Bank, Flemington 12,661 45 
 
 North Ward National Bank, Newark 5,000 00 
 
 Merchants National Bank, Newark 17,058 94 
 
 First National Bank, Vincentown 5,000 00 
 
 National State Bank, Camden , 80,813 75 
 
 Mechanics Trust Company, Bergen Point 5,000 00 
 
 Union National Bank, Mount Holly 35,358 45 
 
 Second National Bank, Atlantic City 10,000 00 
 
 Freehold Banking Company...'. 15,000 00 
 
 Swedesboro National Bank 5,000 00 
 
 Lambertville National Bank 5,000 00 
 
 Farmers and Mechanics' National Bank, Woodbury 15,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Woodbury 5,000 00 
 
 Trenton Banking Company 4,210 18 
 
 New Jersey Trust and Safe Deposit Company, Camden... 22,500 00 
 
 German National Bank, Newark 7,500 00 
 
 The Hackensack Bank, N. J 4,065 00 
 
 Union Bank, Frenchtown 5,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Long Branch 12,500 00 
 
 Atlantic City National Bank... 7,500 00 
 
 Mechanics' National Bank, Trenton , 19,881 82 
 
 First National Bank, Jersey City 91,955 85 
 
 Farmers' National Bank, Mount Holly £5,000 00 
 
 Tradesman's Bank, Vineland 5,000 00 
 
566 TREASURY DEPARTMENT. 
 
 Moorestown National Bank $25,705 96 
 
 First National Bank, Asbury Park 15,000 00 
 
 Citizens' Bank, Elizabeth 5,000 00 
 
 Burlington County National Bank, Medford 5,000 00 
 
 Broad Street National Bank, Trenton 8,817 11 
 
 Orange National Bank, Orange 7,050 63 
 
 $662,025 64 
 
 Then is the statement of special railroad moneys, 
 which at that time amounted to $364,000, deposited in 
 the following banks : 
 
 Bank) — 
 
 Burlington County National Bank, Medford $9,444 42 
 
 Merchants National Bank, Newark 8,000 00 
 
 Bordentown Banking Company 6,000 00 
 
 Atlantic City National Bank 7,500 CO 
 
 Manufacturers National Bank, Newark 8,000 00 
 
 Union National Bank, Mt. Holly 21,400 00 
 
 Bridgeton National Bank 17,000 Ou 
 
 First National Bank, Toms Biver 5,000 00 
 
 National State Bank, Newark 5,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Paterson 5,200 00 
 
 Second National Bank, Hoboken 4,000 00 
 
 National State Bank, Camden 6,500 00 
 
 New Jersey Trust & Safe Deposit Company, Camden 22,000 00 
 
 Somerset County National Bank, Somerville 5000 00 
 
 Third National Bank, Jersey City 5,000 00 
 
 Mechanics National Bank, Burlington 1,970 09 
 
 Hudson City Bank, Jersey City 26,000 00 
 
 Am well National Bank, Lambertville 5,000 00 
 
 State Trust & Safe Deposit Company, Passaic 10,000 00 
 
 Paterson National Bank 10,000 00 
 
 National State Bank, Elizabeth 10,000 00 
 
 Mount Holly National Bank 20,000 00 
 
 Farmers National Bank, Mount Holly 31,564 94 
 
 Moorestown National Bank 2,500 00 
 
 Burlington County Safe Deposit and Trust Co 9,758 32 
 
 First Nat. Bank, Jersey City 96,103 93 
 
 S357,941 70 
 
 Cash on hand 6,295 00 
 
 8364,236 70 
 
 I have also here a statement of the three fiscal years 
 during Mr. Gray's term; in the State fund it was at the 
 end of 1893, $402,000.00, deposited as follows : 
 
 Banks. 1891. 1892. 1893. 
 
 N. Ward Nat. Bank, Newark... ?12,008 05 $2,008 05 $2,008 05 
 
 Mech. Nat. Bank, Trenton 181,112 42 228,718 85 278,102 89 
 
 Ist Nat. Bank, J. City 10 02 175,77101 16,683 29 
 
TREASURY DEPARTMENT. 567 
 
 Banks— 1891. 1892. 1893. 
 
 Essex Co. Nat. Bank, Newark.. $158,652 72 $185,547 34 $57,920 29 
 
 Second Nat. Bank, Newark 10,000 00 2,500 00 2,500 00 
 
 Farmers Nat. Bank, Mt. Holly.. 13,249 15 3,249 15 3,249 15 
 
 Trenton Banking Co 94 94 94 
 
 Hunterdon Co. Nat. Bank, 
 
 Flemington 5,000 00 5,000 00 
 
 Union Nat. Bank, Mt. Holly... 11,542 88 1,542 88 1,642 88 
 
 Moorestown Nat. Bank 10,592 78 592 78 592 78 
 
 First Nat. Bank, Manasquan 14,770 15 
 
 German Nat. Bank, Newark 11,289 85 
 
 $402,168 96 $619,701 15 $724,038 12 
 Oct. 31, '91. Oct. 31, '92. Oct. 31, '93. 
 
 Then follows a list of the balances of the School Fund 
 for the same years during Mr. Gray's term : 
 
 Banks— 1891. 1892. 1893. 
 
 First Nat. Bank, Jersey City.. $401,303 10 $161,303 10 $66,303 10 
 
 Mech. Nat. Bank, Trenton.... 58,467 27 79,895 02 62,581 14 
 
 Farmers' Nat. Bank, Mount 
 
 Holly 5,000 00 5,000 00 5,000 00 
 
 Moorestown Nat. Bank 5,705 96 5,705 96 5,705 96 
 
 Union Nat. Bank, Mt. Holly.. 5,358 45 5,358 45 5,358 45 
 
 Citizens' Bank, Elizabeth 5,000 00 
 
 Bordentown Banking Co 
 
 Essex Co. Nat. Bank, Newark, 
 
 Union Nat. Bank, French- 
 town 
 
 9,000 00 
 
 9.000 00 
 
 30,372 34 
 
 95,922 34 
 
 5,339 13 
 
 5,339 13 
 
 0,834 78 $321,974 00 $255,210 12 
 Oct. 31, 1891. Oct. 31, 1892. Oct. 31, 1893. 
 
 The special railroad moneys amounted in 1891, in 
 Mr. Gray's term, to $382,000, as follows : 
 
 Banks— 1891. 
 
 Bordentown Banking Co $6,000 00 
 
 Union Nat. Bank, Mt. Holly, 21,400 00 
 
 Bridgeton Nat. Bank 7,000 00 
 
 Nat. State Bank, Camden 834 51 
 
 N. J. Trust and Safe Deposit 
 
 Co., Camden , 12,000 00 
 
 Amwell Nat. Bank, Lambert- 
 ville 5,000 00 
 
 People's Bank and Trust Com- 
 pany, Passaic 10,000 00 18,000 00 38,000 00 
 
 Paterson Nat. Bank, Paterson 10,000 00 
 
 National State Bank, Eliza- 
 beth 10,000 00 
 
 Mt. Holly Nat. Bank 32,000 00 23,000 00 23.000 00 
 
 Farmers' Nat. Bank, Mt. 
 
 Holly 22,064 94 22,064 94 22,064 94 
 
 Moorestown Nat. Bank 17,700 00 16,100 00 16,100 00 
 
 1892. 
 
 1893. 
 
 $21,400 00 
 
 $21,400 00 
 
 
 25,000 00 
 12,000 00 
 
 12,000 00 
 
568 TREASURY DEPARTMENT. 
 
 Banks- 1891. 1892. 1893. 
 
 Burlington County Safe De- 
 posit and Trust Company... 112,053 23 $10,053 23 $10,053 23: 
 
 First Nat. Bank, Jersey City.. 119,103 93 102,118 44 133,379 5& 
 
 State Banking Company, 
 
 Newark 20,333 33 20,333 33 
 
 Merchants' Nat. Bank, New- 
 ark 20,000 00 10,000 00 10,000 00 
 
 Nat. State Bank, Newark 10,000 00 2,000 00 2,000 00 
 
 Bloomsbury Nat. Bank 5,000 00 5,000 00 5,000 00 
 
 Manf. Nat. Bank, Newark 13,600 00 9,000 00 9,000 00 
 
 Essex County Nat. Bank, 
 
 Newark 28,586 00 150,842 00 145,394 00 
 
 Citizens' Bank, Elizabeth 12,000 00 12,000 00 
 
 Newark City Nat. Bank, 
 
 Newark 10,000 00 
 
 1382,655 94 $433,911 94 $494,391 73 
 Oct. 31, 1891. Oct. 31, 1892. Oct. 31, 1893. 
 
 And finally the statement for November 1, last, of the 
 present Treasurer; his balance is $218,000 deposited in 
 the following banks : 
 
 First National Bank, Jersey City $16,303 10 
 
 Mechanics National Bank 95,578 92 
 
 Essex County National Bank, Newark 55,922 34 
 
 Farmers National Bank, Mt. Holly... 5,000 00 
 
 Union National Bank, Mt.Holly 5,358 45 
 
 Moorestown National Bank 5,705 69 
 
 Union National Bank, Frenchtown 10,339 13 
 
 Bordentown Banking Company 9,000 00 
 
 Lakewood Trust Company 5,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Clinton 5,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Cranbury 5,000 00 
 
 $218,207 90 
 
 That is the School Fund ; and the State Fund is de- 
 posited as follows : 
 
 Mechanics National Bank, Trenton $367,195 89 
 
 Trenton Banking Company 56,068 32 
 
 First National Bank, Jersey City 71,788 34 
 
 Essex County National Bank, Newark 27,920 29 
 
 German National Bank, Newark 208,751 63 
 
 National State Bank, Newark 20,000 00 
 
 Farmers National Bank, Mt. Holly 3,249 15 
 
 Union National Bank, Mt. Holly 1,542 88 
 
 Orange National Bank, Orange 25,0C0 00 
 
 National State Bank, Elizabeth 25,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Elizabeth 10,000 OO 
 
 Moorestown National Bank, Moorestown 592 78 
 
 First National Bank, Paterson 25,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Hightstown 5,000 00' 
 
TREASURY DEPAKTjMENT. 569 
 
 Second National Bank, Faterson $14,508 05 
 
 Paterson National Bank, Paterson 10,000 00 
 
 Broad Street National Bank, Trenton 15,000 00 
 
 Mechanics National Bank, Burlington 10,238 58 
 
 Millville National Bank, Millville 5,000 00 
 
 Hunterdon County National Bank, Flemington 10,000 00 
 
 Salem National Banking Company, Salem 8,000 CO 
 
 Farmers and Mechanics National Bank, Woodbury 5,000 00 
 
 National State Bank, Camden 25,000 00 
 
 Burlington County National Bank, Medford 10,000 00 
 
 Merchants National Bank, Newark 10,000 00 
 
 Second National Bank, Somerville 5,000 00 
 
 Sussex National Bank, Newton 10,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Bound Brook 5,000 00 
 
 $986,855 91 
 
 And lastly, the State Treasurer's balances of the 
 
 special Railroad account, which amounted to $468,000, 
 and the same as the year before, deposited as follows : 
 
 First National Bank, Jersey City $25,307 06 
 
 German National Bank, Newark 93,732 30 
 
 Merchants National Bank, Newark 20,000 00 
 
 Manufacturers National Bank Newark 20,000 00 
 
 Newark City National Bank, Newark 20,000 00 
 
 Essex Couniy National Bank, Newark 6,652 50 
 
 National State Bank, Newark (add $25,000 Nov., '94) 2,000 00 
 
 Mt. Holly National Bank, Mt. Holly 23,000 00 
 
 Farmers' National Bank, Mt. Holly 22,064 94 
 
 Union National Bank, Mt. Holly 21,400 00 
 
 National State Bank, Camden 13,000 00 
 
 New Jersey Trust & Safe Deposit Company, Camden 12.000 00 
 
 Camden National Bank, Camden 10,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Camden 10,000 00 
 
 Peoples Bank & Trust Company, Passaic. 12,000 00 
 
 Moorestown National Bank, Moorestown 16,100 00 
 
 Burlington County Safe Deposit and Trust Company 10,053 23 
 
 Citizens Bank, Elizabeth 10,000 00 
 
 Millville National Bank, Millville 10,000 00 
 
 Atlantic City National Bank, Atlantic City 10,00(i 00 
 
 Second National Bank, Atlantic City 5,000 00 
 
 Union National Bank, Atlantic City 5,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Plainfleld lO.OUO 00 
 
 National Union Bank, Dover 10,000 00 
 
 Bloomsbury National Bank, Newton ., 5,000 00 
 
 Phillipsburg National Bank, Phillipsburg 5,000 00 
 
 Salem National Banking Company, Salem 5,000 00 
 
 Farmers and Mechanics National Bank, Woodbury 5,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Trenton 25,000 00 
 
 First National Bank, Paterson 14,000 00 
 
 $468,310 03 
 
570 TEEASTJRY DEPAKTMENT. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Is there any means of knowing 
 how these deposits vary at difierent times during the 
 year ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir ; I understand that a sheet 
 could be drawn ofi showing the balance on every day in 
 the year; it is only a matter of getting up the figures. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I ask that in view of the 14th 
 section, which I trust you will comment on, " That it 
 shall and may be lawful for the treasurer of this State, 
 and it is hereby made his duty, to loan at the best rate 
 of interest he can procure, not exceeding lawful in- 
 terest, on the pledge of United States stock, at a rate 
 not above its par value as collateral security, any sur- 
 plus money in the treasury of this State not otherwise 
 appropriated, nor already authorized to be invested by 
 the trustees of the school fund, as the same shall from 
 time to time accrue ; and it shall be the duty of the 
 treasurer to loan the same on such terms of credit as 
 will enable him to receive said money again, so as to 
 meet the demands on the treasury." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I shall recur to that matter. I suppose 
 at times the State has been a borrower and could not 
 be a lender, and at times some of these balances have 
 been made up of borrowed money ; perhaps not within 
 the last four years, but certainly before that. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Has it since 1888? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will ask that of the witnesses. 
 
 Senator Bkirm — Senator Voorhees suggests that the 
 balance is never less than $200,000 ; he puts the figures 
 very low, because the railroad money alone is between 
 $275,000 and $326,000; there is from $500,000 to $900,- 
 
 000 lying in the State all the time. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That money belongs to the railroads 
 and would never belong to the State unless it were 
 forfeited to the State, and, I suppose, if that money is to 
 be used or loaned it should be a matter of direct legis- 
 lation to authorize it ; I suppose the Treasurer would 
 hesitate to make a loan of that money, perhaps, without 
 legislative authority. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — He is simply the custodian of it ; 
 
 1 don't think he would be authorized to do it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Yet it is on hand and subject to the 
 control of the Treasurer; anywhere from $500,000 to 
 
JOHN J. TOFFEY. 571 
 
 $1,000,000 has been deposited in the different banks for 
 the last four years. 
 
 John J. Toffey, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You were Treasurer of this State? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. During what years? A. From 1885 to 1891, six years, 
 
 Q. During your term was the State a borrower of money? A. 
 Yes, sir, a borrower. 
 
 Q. During all your six years ? A. No, sir, not all the time. 
 
 Q. During what years did you have to borrow? A. I would 
 have to look at the State Treasurer's report; I think it was about 
 1888, in the latter part of 1888. 
 
 Q. Was it only for a single year? A. No, sir; they extended 
 over and we left an inheritance to my successor to pay up ; I 
 think it was about |350,000 borrowed. 
 
 Q. After you began to borrow were you always in debt or were 
 there times when your debts were all paid off ? A. Well, pre- 
 vious to that borrowing we bad no occasion to borrow. 
 
 Q. But after you commenced to borrow were you all the time 
 in debt, or did you get out of debt? A. If you call these loans a 
 debt, yes, sir; we were in debt. 
 
 Q. These loans were, after you made the first one, continuous, 
 were they ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You never got entirely out of debt 1 A. \ think I left a 
 loan when I retired from the office. 
 
 q. Then the State was a borrower from 1888 to 1891? A. I 
 think so. 
 
 Q. The last three years of your service ? J.. I wouldn't be 
 positive about that, but I think so. 
 
 Q. How great a sum did these loans amount to? A. \ think 
 the highest was $400,000. 
 
 Q. And it was some $350,000 when you relinquished the office ? 
 A. Yes ; I think we paid |50,000 before I went. 
 
 Q. What rates of interest did. the State pay? A. Four per 
 cent. 
 
 Q. Uniformly that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This, I suppose, was entirely for the State Fund ? A. 
 Entirely so. 
 
 Q. The other funds were well supplied ? A. Well supplied ; 
 yes. 
 
 Q. And did you carry a balance in the School Fund ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
572 JOHN J. TOFFBY. 
 
 Q. How great were those usually ? A. Well, you have got 
 them here on the returns ; I don't remember now. 
 
 Q. These that I have are only for the Slst of October. A. 
 Yes, sir ; that was the close of our fiscal year. 
 
 Q. Are the balances large or small at that time of year ? A. 
 Well, there is no particular difference, one part of the year from 
 another; it is my duty, particularly in the School Fund, to report 
 to the Trustees of the School Fund all balances, and if they see fit 
 to loan the money they do so ; I attend the meetings — I wasn't a 
 member of the Board of Trustees of the School Fund, but I 
 would attend their meeting? and report the balances. 
 
 Q. Speaking of the loaning of money, you mean making per- 
 manent investments ? A. Yes, sir ; government, or whatever the 
 school trustees wanted. 
 
 Q. Were any temporary loans made out of that fund during 
 your term, on call or otherwise? A. Not to my recollection; 
 no, sir. 
 
 Q. How large a balance did they carry in the way of cash ? 
 A. I never carried any cash ; I deposited it. 
 
 Q. How large a bank balance for School Fund were they accus- 
 tomed to carry? A. Well, it would depend; sometimes invest- 
 ments would be paid off and my balance would be very large ; 
 other times we would loan it and it would be small; the records 
 will show ; I couldn't tell you from memory. 
 
 Q. But they never made any temporary loans? A. Not to my 
 knowledge ; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Were any temporary loans ever made during your term of 
 the State funds ? A. No, sir; never. 
 
 Q. Were any of the railroad moneys ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the subject ever come up for consideration whether you 
 should make temporary loans of the State's money? A. Never. 
 
 Q. It wasn't done at all during your six years ? A. Never ; 
 no, sir. 
 
 Q. Was the section of the law which I have read, with refer- 
 ence to the lending of the State's moneys, ever brought up for 
 consideration ? A. No, sir ; I never kuew of it until I heard 
 you speak of it. 
 
 Q. You selected the banks, did you not, in which the funds of 
 the State were deposited ? ^. I did, sir. 
 
 Q. Do yau renaember the selection of some Burlington county 
 bank, or banks in that part of the State, in which funds were 
 deposited? A. I remember some of them, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How came they to be designated? A. Well, I can't tell 
 you ; 1 probably have been requested — I would like to say to 
 
JOHN J. TOFFEY. 573 
 
 the Committee right here that I was very careful in selecting the 
 depository of the State money ; I never would deposit a dollar in 
 any bank until I had first examined, through a financial friend of 
 mine, the coudition of these banks, and if 1 found them sound I 
 would deposit, sometimes upon request of difierent parties; I 
 divided them all over the State, as nearly equal as I could. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Senators and representatives 
 would see you sometimes, wouldn't they? A. Yes, sir; that is 
 about so ; but before I would grant their request I had a friend 
 who would show me the Comptroller of the Currency report, 
 and he would advise me whether it would do to deposit in those 
 banks or not, and I usually took his advice upon reading those 
 things ; I never lost a dollar during my term. 
 
 Q. You made no mistakes in the selection of the banks ? 
 A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. There was never any trouble ? A. Never. 
 Q. No doubt you have seen the newspaper reports relative to 
 thecousiderationpaidfor moneys deposited in Burlington county? 
 A. I have read them. 
 
 Q. Was anything ever paid to the State ? A. Never. 
 Q. Was anything ever paid to you ? A. Never, sir. 
 Q. Are you aware that anything was ever paid to anybody ? 
 A. Never, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you have any knowledge of it until you saw it in these 
 newspaper prints lately ? A. No, sir ; I never requested or ex- 
 acted from a bank any interest, or I never received any nor au- 
 thorized anybody to do it for me. 
 
 Q. You were not aware that it had been done ? A. I was not 
 aware of it, sir, at all. 
 
 Witness — Will you allow me, before I retire, to make 
 a statement ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Certainly, it is only fair. 
 Witness — It isn't in regard to this matter, but in re- 
 gard to another matter that has been brought before 
 yon. I have noticed my name being incidentally brought 
 before this Committee in regard to the payment of bills 
 of Mr. Ford ; I would like to make a statement if you 
 will allow me. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — You are at liberty to do so. It 
 is only fair to say this to you. Col. Toffey, or anybody 
 else that may be brought here, I can assure that so far as 
 the counsel of the Committee is concerned, he doesn't 
 want to do anybody an injustice; naturally these pro- 
 ceedings are somewhat one-sided, and names are 
 
574 JOHN J. TOFFEY. 
 
 brought out and in the present state of the public mind 
 it may be that wrong conclusions are formed by the 
 public. ISTow, so far as counsel is concerned and so far 
 as the members of this Committee are concerned, they 
 are perfectly willing that any one whose name is men- 
 tioned should have an opportunity to explain. 
 
 Witness — This is entirely foreign to the subject you 
 are now on, but this is the first opportunity I have had 
 to be before you, and my name has been brought up 
 incidentally in regard to the payment of certain bills 
 directed by Mr. Ford. I want to state that during three 
 or four years of my term I was Custodian of the State 
 House by virtue of my office as State Treasurer. I en- 
 deavored to protect the State in every manner possible, 
 and I kept my expenses down to the lowest figure. 
 
 When Mr. Ford was appointed by the Legislature as 
 a State officer, he came here appointed by Governor 
 Green and gave his bonds as a State officer. He con- 
 tracted certain bills; I was very careful in approving 
 those bills. He would buy, for instance, coal ; I would 
 go to my engineer and find out if the coal had arrived ; 
 if it was satisfactory I would get his approval on those 
 bills, and I would also approve them and they went to 
 the Comptroller for his warrant ; so it was with lumber 
 and in every way. I called Mr. Ford's attention at one 
 time that he was running up his State House expenses a 
 little above the ordinary figure. I want to say, also, that 
 when he came in the natural increase for State House 
 expenses ought to have been considerable more ; there 
 was a larger building, it took more coal to heat it, it 
 took more labor to keep the House in order; I didn't 
 measure the lumber, I didn't bring experts here to see 
 if the painting was done, but I used ray best judgment 
 in approving those bills. I want to make that state- 
 ment here before the Committee. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Nobody questions that in this Com- 
 mittee at all. 
 Q. How much, in your judgment, ought the State House ex- 
 penses to be augmented by reason of these enlargements? A. 
 Well, I should judge, I don't know — my expenses used to run 
 from $18,000 to $25,000; I should judge that on account of the 
 increase here that $40,000 ought to pay the expense of the State 
 House. 
 
GEOEGE R. GRAY. 575 
 
 Q. You think that $40,000 would be a sufficient appropriation ? 
 A. I think so ; that is simply a guess ; I don't know what. 
 
 Q. You are aware that recently they have run as high as 
 $71,000, are you not ? A. Yes, sir ; so I have seen by the State 
 Treasurer's report. 
 
 Q. You think that is excessive ? A. Rather ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — One of the criticisms upon you 
 has been that you snooped around too much, it was too hard to 
 get things out of you 1 A. I am very glad to hear that, sir. 
 
 George R. Gray, sworn. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You were the Treasurer of this State during what years ? A. 
 From March, 1891, till April, 1894. 
 
 Mr. Toffey — Will you allow me one correction ; you 
 asked me a question which I want to rectify ; we did 
 occasionally make loans to the Sinking Fund of the 
 State, which I neglected to state here ; my attention has 
 been called to it by the Comptroller, that I made an 
 error. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Did the Sinking Fund pay you any in- 
 terest ? 
 
 Mr. Toffey— N'o. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That lending of money temporarily to 
 the Sinking Fund to meet its requirements, really then 
 saved the State the necessity of borrowing moneys out- 
 side for the Sinking Fund? 
 
 Mr. Tofiey — That is the way I understand it ; yes, sir. 
 Q. Mr. Gray, when you came into the office, the State Fund 
 was a borrower, was it not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. To the extent of— 4. $350,000. 
 
 Q. How long did the State Fund continue to be a borrower ? 
 A. Until we received the direct tax from the Government, which, 
 I think, was within two or three months afterwards — $382,000 we 
 received from the Government; we took that money and paid the 
 debt. 
 
 Q. Were you ever a borrower after that ? A. Never. 
 Q. And you always had a balance in all your other funds after 
 that time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Did you ever make any temporary loans out of the State 
 funds? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you out of the School Fand? A. Never. 
 Q. Nor yet from the railroad money? A. Never. 
 
576 GEOBGE B. SWAIN. 
 
 Q. Did the subject of loaning the State's balances under this 
 act of i846, of which I have read, ever come up while you were 
 in office? -4. Not till this morning ; no, sir. 
 
 §. And the State usually had a pretty comfortable balance in 
 all its accounts, did it not, during your term ? A. Very good. 
 
 Q. And you left it so ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Yoorhees) — In fairness to Mr. Gray, he 
 simply followed the custom that had theretofore prevailed for 
 years ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 By Senator Skirm — And was exceedingly careful 
 where he put it. 
 
 0.. You designated the banks in which the State's money was 
 deposited ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Did you ever make a mistake and get into a bank that 
 broke ? A. No, sir; got it out before they did. 
 
 Q. The State has had no trouble with its balances during your 
 time? A. No, sir ; none whatever. 
 
 Q. Did you make deposits in some of the Burlington county 
 banks? A. I never made a deposit in Burlington county, except 
 in the bank — 
 
 Q. Did you continue the balance there ? J.. I continued the 
 balance that I found there, but I never added to them ; I left 
 them there. 
 
 §. In one instance ? J.. I think the Bordentown Banking 
 Company — I drew it all out at one time ; I think the records will 
 show, though I haven't looked it up, but in a few months after 
 it was drawn out they came to me and said they had always had 
 a bank account from the State, and I redeposited ; that was the 
 only bank in Burlington county I ever deposited a dollar in, I 
 think. 
 
 §. Did you ever receive any interest from any of the banks ? 
 A. None whatever. 
 
 Q. Or did you receive any compensation from the banks or 
 their officers ? A. None whatever. 
 
 Q. For leaving your funds with them ? A. None whatever. 
 
 ^. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Or authorize any one else ? A. 
 Never authorized anybody. 
 
 Q. Are you sure that that wasn't done ? A. Never, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever ask interest from any bank or from any of 
 their officers? A. Never, sir. 
 
 George B. Swain, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are the Treasurer of this State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
GEORGE B. SWAIN. 577 
 
 Q. And when did your term of office begin ? A. On the first 
 of April a year ago, sir, 1894. 
 
 Q. You have designated the banks in which the funds of the 
 State have been kept during your term? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You continued some of the balances? A. A great many 
 of them. 
 
 Q. And opened new ones ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 0. You have had some of your balances in Burlington county? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you opened new ones there or continued the ones you 
 found? A. I believe I have continued all those I found and, I 
 think, only opened one, the bank in Burlington county of which 
 Captain Haines is treasurer, and there may possibly be another 
 one. 
 
 Q. Did you ever receive any interest from any of the banks 
 on deposits of the State ? A. 'So, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever ask any? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you authorize anybody to ask or receive any ? A No., 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And were you aware that any money had been paid by any 
 of these banks or their officers in consideration of making de- 
 posits with them? A. No, sir, I wasn't aware of it. 
 
 Q. The State has not been a borrower since you have beea 
 Treasurer, has it? A. No, sir, not at all. 
 
 Q. And all these three different funds had sufficient money? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have the balances, as a rule, been as great as they are now, 
 during your term? A. Well, I don't remember, sir; I think, 
 though, the balance which has been referred to at the close of 
 the year, 31st of October, was the largest that it had ever been 
 up to that time, and I don't think it has ever reached that since. 
 I might say there was a little special effort made to get in every- 
 thing that was due, and it is the closing of the year, and it is a 
 time when all balances do, I think you will notice, run high dur- 
 ing October. 
 
 Q. I was of that impression. A. 1 think the Colonel is mis- 
 taken ; he hadn't noticed, but I understand they do. 
 
 Q. I see your State funds had a balance at that time of $986,- 
 000 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That was unusually large, was it not ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The School Fund wasn't very high, that was $218,000 in 
 addition? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 37 SH 
 
578 GEORGE B. SWAIN. 
 
 Q. And the railroad money, of course, remains stationary until 
 some railroad is finished, and then some is drawn out, isn't it ?' 
 A. That is the most uncertain thing; you didn't refer to the 
 Traction act; under that we get deposits of amounts of $25,000, 
 and sometimes they remain for a very short time. 
 
 Q. Isn't that $2,000 a mile ? J., ^o ; under the Traction act 
 that is $25,000 in bulk, and as soon as they show to the satisfac- 
 tion of the Treasurer they have spent that amount they are enti- 
 tled to take that out, so that we may get a call for $25,000 or 
 $50,000 or $75,000 any day — we get no notice; they do call 
 before they are entitled to the money sometimes. 
 
 Q. There has been no trouble with any of these banks or the 
 balances since you have been in the office ? A. ISTo, sir ; none 
 whatever ; so far, I have followed the course of my predecessors, 
 and I have a larger number of accounts opened, but I tried to be 
 very careful where I opened them ; I am importuned by a great 
 many, and some I am obliged to refuse. 
 
 Q. The account of the State is sought after by the banks, is it 
 not? A. Yes, sir; I have had two or three that offered to pay 
 interest; but my idea on that is that a bank can't aflord at these 
 times to pay interest. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What is the objection to the 
 State loaning its money on call loans, with government bonds or 
 approved municipal bonds or approved railroad bonds as collateral 
 security? A. I don't know, Senator, that there is any serious 
 objection to it; that law had never been called to my attention; 
 I noticed it in looking over the duties of the Treasurer some 
 months after I had been in the office, but I inquired if any loans 
 were ever made, and I was told there had not. The only objec- 
 tion might be that we don't know what we are going to be called 
 on for. 
 
 Q. You can sell a government bond to-day in fifteen minutes 
 and you have got your cash ? A. "We sometimes have people 
 who don't want to wait fifteen minutes for their checks. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You stand off a good many fel- 
 lows longer than that? A. Not many. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Isn't it customary, from your knowl- 
 edge of the banks in New Jersey and other places, to pay one or 
 two or three per cent, on deposits ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Aren't there some banks in the State 
 that do that ? A. In New Jersey ? 
 
 Q. In New Jersey ? A. Yes, sir ; they do for certain amounts, 
 but I think for any large amount it wouldn't pay very good, and 
 
JOSEPH L. HULMB. 579 
 
 the banks that are the most willing to pay and would be the 
 most liberal, some are not the strongest. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The act to which I called attention 
 
 limits the security upon which money shall be loaned to 
 
 United States stock. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Can you tell us in a general way 
 
 what is the average monthly amount of moneys to the credit of 
 
 the State? A. "Well, I didn't know whatinformation was wanted 
 
 of me and I haven't looked over that ; these papers show how it 
 
 runs. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — I thought possibly your general 
 knowledge of the detail of the office — A. I think what has 
 been suggested, perhaps from $500,000 upwards ; this special 
 railroad fund, it is questionable whether that is a fund — 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You are simply custodian of 
 that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have some figures here which will give 
 a little of the balances, for instance, March 31, 1894, 
 when Mr. Gray turned over the office to Mr. Swain, the 
 balances are as follows : In the State Fund, .|.333,000; 
 in the School Fund, |137,000, and in the Special Rail- 
 road Fund, 1437,000. You observe that the balances at 
 that time of the year were considerably less than they 
 were six or eight months before. 
 
 Witness — Yes, probaby that is low-water mark. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What is low-water mark ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin— 1333,000 in the State Fund, $137,000 in 
 the School Fund, and $437,000 in the Railroad Fund- 
 about $900,000. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Isn't it a fact that between the Slst 
 of October and say the first day of March or April, aren't the 
 items run down by a large expenditure ? A. Yes, sir, I think 
 so ; my experience is limited, but I should say so; it has been so 
 during the past year. 
 
 Joseph L. Hulme, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Cokbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Mount Holly. 
 
 Q. And are you employed in the office of the State Treasurer ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In what capacity ? A. As clerk. 
 
 Q. How long have you been employed there ? A. Since Jan- 
 uary, 1886. 
 
680 JOSEPH L. HULJtE. 
 
 Q. You have heard these statements which have been made in 
 the papers, no doubt, with reference to the bank balances in cer- 
 tain banks of the county of Burlington, with which your name 
 has been connected? J.. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How came the moneys of the State to be deposited in these 
 banks in the first place, was your influence in it? A. Yes, sir; 
 not in the first place, because the Burlington county banks from 
 almost time immemorial have been receiving State deposits, so 
 many of the Treasurers were from Burlington. 
 
 Q. Bid you at auy period solicit the State Treasurer to make 
 their deposits in Burlington county ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When? A. Pretty much all the time I was in the office. 
 
 Q. And beginning when you came there? A. Soon after. 
 
 Q. And deposits were made accordingly ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And they continued to be made up to the present time? 
 The balances are continued to the present time ? A. The bal- 
 ances are continued ; of course deposits were made and drawn as 
 required, by the State. 
 
 Q. Those accounts are not active accounts, are they ? A. Sub- 
 ject to draft at any moment. 
 
 Q. Of course, but as a matter of practice, the Treasurer has a few 
 accounts on which he makes his drafts and leaves the others un- 
 touched ? A. Practically only one, the Mechanics' Bank, in 
 Trenton. 
 
 Q. And each Treasurer has for State funds one active account? 
 A. Yes, sir ; Mr. Toffey used to have two practically active 
 accounts ; that is, the First National Bank of Jersey City and 
 the Trenton Bank. 
 
 Q. And the other accounts really remain undisturbed for long 
 periods of time, weeks? A. Frequently do. 
 
 Q. Until the necessities of the treasury require some draft? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then when you draw upon them it is really to re- 
 plenish your active account ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you pay your bills right out of your active account ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is one of the Trenton banks, usually, is it not? A. 
 Mechanics ISTational Bank of Trenton, at the present time. 
 
 Q. How came you to solicit the Treasurer to make further 
 deposits in these banks; were you solicited to do bo by the bank? 
 A. Largely by these gentlemen being all my personal friends, I 
 was frequently asked, " Can't you give us another deposit ?" 
 
 Q. That is a common thing for the Treasurer to be solicited to 
 do? A. Yes sir, from all over the State. 
 
JOSEPH L. HULME. 581 
 
 Q, Now, Mr. Hulme, just state in your own way what arrange- 
 ment was made, if any, by you, with reference to payments 
 being made by these banks or their officers, and what payments, 
 if any, were made ; how did the thing begin ? A. It began by 
 my noticing an advertisement in the Mount Holly papers that 
 they would pay interest on deposits. 
 
 Q. What year was that? A. In 1890 I think, and as there were 
 certain parties in Burlington county who had been making a very 
 vigorous war upon me in every respect, 1 was looking around for 
 means to meet it, and it struck me that perhaps I might be able 
 to get some assistance in that direction, and in inquiry of some 
 of the parties connected with those institutions I found they 
 were willing to compensate me for my trouble and expense or 
 influence, any that I might bring to bear, and they did so. 
 
 Q. And you did obtain, then, sums of money from the officers 
 of these Burlington county banks in which you influenced depos- 
 its to be made? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How was the amount arrived at, by a percentage or — A. 
 Well, I suppose they fixed it on a percentage or so understood ; 
 my idea always was that whatever I received was received for 
 my personal services and for political purposes. 
 
 Q. Well, were they given to understand that? A. I think 
 they pretty generally understood that. 
 
 Q. The money was given to you personally, was it ? A. Given 
 to me personally, to do just what I pleased with, and I want to 
 say now, that no State officer, no State Treasurer, had any know- 
 ledge of it or ever derived any benefit from it. 
 
 Q. Well, as long as you have volunteered that, what was done 
 with the money? A. I used it for purposes which I thought 
 was best. 
 
 <y. (By Senator Skirm) — For your own personal advantage, by 
 your statement a moment ago? A Political. 
 
 (J. (By Senator Skirm) — That you wanted to get even with 
 somebody, therefore you took that means to do it ; is that the 
 way I understand it ? A. JSTo, that is not altogether correct; I 
 wanted to take care of myself without getting even with any- 
 body else. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What position did you occupy in the 
 State Treasurer's office ? J.. As a clerk. 
 
 Q. By Senator Skirm — Do you think you had a right to take 
 money on that line ? J.. I didn't see any particular reason why 
 I shouldn't, in a political sense. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What is the difl^erence between 
 
582 JOSEPH L. HUI.ME. 
 
 political and business ? A. Well, that is a question ; I suppose 
 that is for judgment. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Did you think you had a right to 
 take it, money that belonged to the State, to use for your political 
 advantage? A. Well, most all the deposits, Senator, are made 
 first, for the safety of the money, and then to oblige your friends 
 afterwards where it possible to do it. 
 
 Q. But they pay nothing for that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Are you now employed in the State 
 Treasurer's o£fice ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Are you still continuing that custom 
 of making political assessments and contributions? A. N"o, sir; 
 I am not. 
 
 Q. These payments that were made to you were understood 
 between you and the people from whom you received them to be 
 for political purposes? A. That was my understanding; I think 
 most of them understood it that way. 
 
 Q. And the money was used for political purposes? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. In the annual campaigns ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Who dispensed that money? A. I 
 did. 
 
 Q. Can you tell about how much per annum that amounted 
 to ? A. Well, I think on an average between $2,000 and $3,000. 
 
 Q. From the year 1890 up to what year ? A. I think so ; from 
 1890 to 1893-94. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Be specific about your dates, please ; 
 was it in the years 1891, 1892, 1893 and 1894? A. In the four 
 years, I think it was. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The reason I asked him whether it 
 was 1891, '2, '3-4 was because there were two State 
 Treasurers in the meantime, and I want to know who 
 he was responsible to. Gray or Swain. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Were any of the moneys re- 
 ceived by Treasurer Gray deposited by you and a commission 
 received ? A. Mr. Gray didn't deposit any monej's during hia 
 term in Burlington county except in Bordeutown, for which there 
 was nothing received that I know. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to some of the Burlington banks who 
 have the State funds, for instance, the Mount Holly Union bank; 
 was that one of those with whom you had such an arrangement? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. With whom did you deal in that case ? A. Mr. Tomlinson, 
 the cashier. 
 
JOSEPH L. HULME. 583 
 
 Q. Was he the only person connected with the bank with 
 whom you had your negotiations ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he made his contribution annually in the way you 
 have said ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In cash ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The Mount Holly National Bank ; was that one of them ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. With whom did you negotiate in that case? A. Mr. Lee. 
 
 Q. Mr. Benjaojin F. Lee, cashier? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you see anyone else ? ^. I did not. 
 
 Q. He contributed in the same way ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How frequently did these gentlemen contribute ? A. 
 Well, I think some once a month and some three months. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That was all for political purposes 
 was it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The money was handed to you personally? A. Handed to 
 me personally. 
 
 Q. The Turlington Bank, of Burlington, was that one of them ? 
 A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. There was nothing of the sort with that bank? A. You 
 mean the Mechanics' National Bank ? 
 
 Q. The name given to me was Nathan Haines? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What was the name of that bank ? A. Mechanics' National 
 Bank. 
 
 Q. There was no such arrangement, then, with that bank ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. No such contributions were made? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. The Moorestown Safe Deposit and Trust Company, was that 
 one ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And with whom did you confer in that case ? A. Mr. Paul, 
 one of the directors. 
 
 Q. And it was he who handed you the money? A. No, the 
 cashier, Mr. Stokes. 
 
 Q. Was Mr. Burr the former cashier? A. No, simply clerk. 
 
 Q. The Farmers' National Bank of Mount Holly was one ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And with whom did you deal in that case ? A. Cashier. 
 
 Q. What is his name ? A. Isaac P. Goldsmith. 
 
 Q. And did Mr. Davis, the cashier, have to do with it ? A. 1 
 think after Mr. Goldsmith's death Mr. Davis continued. 
 
 Q. When did Mr. Goldsmith die? A. I don't know; perhaps 
 two years ago ; I don't remember as to that. 
 
 Q. This was given to you in money on each occasion ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
584 JOSEPH L. HULME. 
 
 Q. And at the bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And either monthly or quarterly, as the case might be t 
 A. To suit their own convenience. 
 
 Q. Did you make any calculation as to the amount of those 
 contributions, or left that to them t A. 1 left that to them, to 
 take whatever they gave me. 
 
 Q. Didn't attempt to make any verification of the amount ? 
 A. N"o, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then, that was given as a contribu- 
 tion, and not as a payment of interest on deposit ? A. That is 
 the way I accepted it, as a contribution ; I didn't keep their 
 books; I don't know what they charged it to. 
 
 §. (By Senator Skirm) — How much money did you get out 
 of it? A. Between $2,000 and $3,000 a year. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What is your salary in the Treasurer's 
 office? A. $1,700. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — How long have you been in the 
 Treasurer's office? A. ITine years. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Rather profitable? A. S'o, sir; it 
 was not ; I haven't got a dollar of it. 
 
 Q. It was all spent for political uses ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — And were the contributions 
 made to you with that understanding? A. Principally. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That it was to be used for 
 political purposes ? A. Supposed to be. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — So long as this matter has been so 
 thoroughly ventilated in the newspapers, as I understand the 
 testimony of Mr, Hulme, he received this contribution from the 
 difterent banks monthly, at times, and sometimes quarterly ; do 
 I understand that ? A. Yes. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then did you simply use that money 
 for political purposes all during this time? A. Not all of it 
 during the time ; I usually laid it one side. 
 
 (}. (By Senator Skirm) — And then used it in the political cam- 
 paign ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — So as to give you power and prestige 
 in your county? A. Well, so as to endeavor to take care of 
 myself; I have been hounded in Burlington county by a set of 
 people; no bloodhounds have ever pursued a man more 
 voraciously than they have pursued me. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— Then you thought to get even with 
 those gentlemen it would be wise to get the State's money, and 
 asked for personal assessments from these gentlemen, and then 
 
JOSEPH L. HULMB. 585 
 
 use it for your personal advantage — a scheme to keep you in the 
 State Treasurer's office ; was that the idea ? A. Partly so. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Have you any knowledge of any 
 other bank in the State making contributions to other gentlemen 
 in the State Treasurer's office ? A. IsTo, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Do the other banks, any of 
 them, pay interest ? A. Not that I know of. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Or make contributions in this 
 way to any other State officials ? A. No. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then, as I understand you, Mr. Toffey, 
 under whom you served, or Mr. Gray, or Mr. Swain, had no 
 knowledge of these facts ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — It was simply a little speculation 
 on your own account of the State moneys ? A. It wasn't State 
 money ; those gentlemen gave it to me freely and legally for any 
 purposes I chose to use it for. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — "We must look at the fact just as 
 it is; the money that was coming to you was money earned by 
 the State money. A. Well, there is something in that. 
 
 Q. Isn't that so? A. 1 suppose that is true. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — The money should have prop- 
 erly come into the State Treasury ? A. I didn't look at it that 
 way ; there never was any understanding between me and any 
 of those people that the State was to have any advantage of it 
 whatever. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — There have been for years factional 
 differences in politics in Burlington county ? A. That is common 
 newspaper report and it is true. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You know that to be so? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Therefore, this assessment was simply 
 to benefit one faction against the other. A. No, I think not ; it 
 was used in the general election. 
 
 Q. Did you state about the percentage that this was upon the 
 deposits, or was it any percentage? A. Well, I usually left that 
 with the parties themselves to fix. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then further, when these gentlemen 
 made these contributions to you, because it apparently was not 
 interest on the deposits, was it not clearly understood by these 
 gentlemen that it was either tor your personal benefit or political 
 matters rather than for the benefit of the State. A. That is the 
 way it was considered, it was for my personal benefit, or for any 
 purpose I chose to use it. 
 
586 SAMUEL TOMLINSON. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Of course, the statements that have 
 been made so damaging in the newspapers, it looked at first as if 
 the banks had some knowledge of this, but they knew that that 
 money went for your benefit or the benefit on party lines rather 
 than for the benefit of the State, and therefore it was made on 
 that line ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — As a contribution? A. Yes, sir; 
 that is the way I accepted it. 
 
 Samuel Tomlinson, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Mount Holly. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. cashier of the Union 
 National Bank. 
 
 Q,. You have heard the testimony of Mr. Hulme? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your bank, did they not, paid to Mr. Hulme certain sums 
 of money, as he has stated ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. From time to time? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How often did you pay? A. Sometimes three months, 
 each three months, some times four ; there was no set period 
 about it ; usually about three months. 
 
 Q. Did you personally make the payments 1 A. \ did. 
 
 Q. And when did it begin 1 A. My recollection of it is that it 
 was in ISTovember, 1890. 
 
 Q,. And how long did it continue with your bank? A. Fp till 
 about a year ago. 
 
 Q,. How did you arrive at the sums which you were to pay ? 
 A. Well, from the amounts that we were paying interest on ; we 
 paid interest on a certain line of our deposits. 
 
 Q. You figured it as you would figure interest ; you figured it 
 upon the amount of the State's balance ? A. Not exactly, we 
 didn't figure it closely to any certain limit, but approximated it. 
 
 Q. It had some reference to the amount of deposits ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And at what rate? A. Sometimes,! think it was 2 and 
 sometimes 3 per cent.; it depended a little on the time; some 
 seasons it was worth more than it was others. 
 
 Q. The rate which you paid was similar to the rate which you 
 were paying for money at the time? A. No, sir; not at all. " 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees)— It was a little lower always ? A. 
 Yes, usually. 
 
 Q. In order that there might be a profit to the bank? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
BENJAMIN F. LEE. 587 
 
 Q. You paid this money personally to Mr. Hulme in cash ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Yoorhees) — Were you reimbursed for your 
 advances to Hulme ? A. No, sir; not personally ; the bank paid 
 it. 
 
 Q. Did this come before the officers of the bank — the direc- 
 tors? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. It was known, of course, to some others of the bank, be- 
 sides yourself? A. It was, possibly, to two — two or three — I 
 don't remember now ; I conferred with them after — 
 
 Q. Did you understand what this money was being given for ? 
 A. Mr. Hulme told me it was for political purposes. 
 
 Q. And you so understood it ? A. He explicitly stated at the 
 time that the State Treasurer had no knowledge of it and no in- 
 terest in it, nor got any benefit of it. 
 
 Q. It was a contribution by your bank, through Mr. Hulme, 
 for political uses in Burlington county ? A. Entirely so. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirni) — Mr. Hulme has stated the amount; it 
 is a fair question to ask Mr. Tomlinson how much money he 
 paid him per year? A. I think it was from $600 to $800. 
 
 Q. You carried a considerable balance ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It was drawn down very much after Mr. TofFey went out? 
 A. Mr. Gray drew it down, I think, considerable. 
 
 Q. And it was about two per cent, or three per cent, of the 
 amount of your balance for the time being ? A. It was what we 
 thought we could afiord to pay for the use of the money, not to 
 have Mr. Hulme's influence against it to draw out the money. 
 
 Benjamin F. Lee, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You reside at Mount Holly? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation? A. Cashier of the Mount Holly 
 National Bank. 
 
 Q. Did you make a payment to Mr. Hulme, as has been testi- 
 fied here? A. I began making payments to Mr. Hulme in the 
 summer of 1890. 
 
 Q. And continued for how long ? A. Until a year ago last 
 February ; I haven't paid any since Mr. Swain has been State 
 Treasurer. 
 
 Q. How often did you pay? A. I think about every three 
 months. 
 
 Q. And how did you arrive at the sum that was to be paid ? 
 A. Well, we began to — we had about $23,000, and I paid him 
 on the basis of two per cent, on $18,000, about that basis. 
 
588 BENJAMm F. LEE. 
 
 Q. You paid out $360 a year? A. Between $300 and $400 a 
 year ; it varied sometimes ; the amount wasn't always the same. 
 
 Q. Did you personally make the payment? A. Yes, sir, I 
 personally made the payment. 
 
 Q. In cash? A. In cash ; we began to pay interest on the 
 deposits in May, 1890, of two per cent., and I suppose that is the 
 way the thing come about; we hadn't any State fund of any 
 account at that time — about $5,000 I think, and what I gave 
 Mr. Hulme was considered as compensation for his influence in 
 getting the State deposit. 
 
 Q. Did you understand the use which was to be made of the 
 money, that it was for political uses? A. I didn't ask him any 
 questions ; he gave us to understand that the State Treasurer and 
 the State hadn't anything to do with it ; it was a personal matter 
 between Mr. Hulme and myself, representing the bank. 
 
 Q. He agreed to exert his influence to maintain your line of 
 deposit? A. Our line of deposit, yes, sir; I think we paid him 
 between $300 and $400 a year. 
 
 Q. Are there other of your officers and directors who are 
 aware of it? A. I think there is one or two; it wasn't generally 
 known; we don't itemize the diflerent accounts that we pay 
 interest on. We have some of $5,000 or some of $10,000; we 
 put them in bulk. 
 
 Q. You charge it in the interest account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And was it entered ? A. The Bank Examiner knew the 
 amount what we paid for it. 
 
 Q. Was it entered on the State's account as interest paid ? 
 A. No ; the State got credit for the money paid, not the interest ; 
 the interest was not entered to the State credit; it was simply in 
 the interest account. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You said you stopped paynient a 
 year ago last February ; why did you stop at that time ? A. 
 Well, about the time the present State Treasurer — never paid 
 anything since. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Why did you stop then? A. He 
 has never asked for it ; he has never been there ; never called 
 for it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You mean Mr. Hulme hasn't called 
 for it? A. Mr. Hulme hasn't called for it; never asked for it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Then it was because he didn't 
 make the request? A. I didn't volunteer it, of course. 
 
 Q. While this was charged to the interest account, as a matter 
 of fact you knew that it didn't go to the State on account of the 
 deposit ? A. To be honest, I don't think it went to the State, 
 
JOHN DAVIS. 589 
 
 because he gave me to understand that the State Treasurer had 
 nothinsc to do with it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That was the legitimate place to 
 charge it rather than to the interest account, it was the legitimate 
 place to charge it ? A. We keep an interest account. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Of course, it would go there as in- 
 terest paid ? A. Interest paid ; yes sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Could it not have been charged 
 to profit and loss just the same? A. "Well, I suppose it could, but 
 we charge up those things during the six months, and at the end 
 of the six months we classify them in the profit and loss account ; 
 we do that so as to keep each account separate; the expense ac- 
 count and interest, difierent accounts — protest accounts, all these 
 little accounts ; we keep it separate, and at the end of six months 
 charge them all into the profit and loss account. 
 
 John Davis, affirmed. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You reside at Mount Holly A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And cashier of the Farmers' ISTational Bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been cashier? A. Since August, 1893. 
 
 Q. Mr. Goldsmith, the previous cashier, died about that time ? 
 A. .Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You have heard the testimony in regard to these payments 
 loMr. Hulme? ^. Yes, eir. 
 
 Q. Did you make them personally since Mr. Goldsmith's 
 death ? A. No, not since his death; I made the payments per- 
 sonally to Mr. Hulme during Mr. Goldsmith's administration ; 
 since his death the paying teller, Mr. Colkitt, made the payments 
 to Mr. Hulme. 
 
 Q. How often were the payments made? A. Monthly, except- 
 ing the last year; they were made then one payment of six 
 months up to the first of November last; previous to Ihat they 
 were made monthly. 
 
 Q. When were the payments begun ? A. They were begun 
 in 1890. 
 
 Q. And continued until the first of JS'ovember last? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. How were the amounts arrived at which should be paid ? 
 A. They were based on the rate of interest on the balance. 
 
 Q. On the State's balance ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What rate of interest was paid ? A. Well, that varied ; I 
 think about the first year and a half it was 3 per cent., and then 
 
590 JOHN DAVIS. 
 
 probably a year and a half, I don't just remember, 2J, and 
 then I think in 1893, and on up to last November, 2 per cent. 
 
 Q. How much did you pay? A. Well, we paid just the 
 interest on that balance ; I don't know. 
 
 Q, Do you remember about what the payments were per 
 year ? A. Well, you can easily tell. 
 
 Q. It was exactly the interest? A. Exact interest to the cent. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What was the balance? A. Well, 
 the balance varied ; the State account will show; I think prob- 
 ably 1150,000 at one time. 
 
 Q. It was at one time $150,000 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Run down to how much? A. About $30,000. 
 q. It is smaller now ? A. No; it is about $30,000. 
 Q. That is about the minimum ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then do I understand you to say that 
 there was a time when you were paying from IJ to 3 per cent, 
 interest on a balance of $150,000 ? A While the balance was 
 $150,000 we paid 3 per cent, for it; I think that was about a 
 year and a half, but the books will show; paid him 3 per cent, 
 on that balance. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — October 31st, the balance of the State 
 fund was 53,000 and odd dollars ; the balance of the 
 School Fund was $55,000 and of the special railroad 
 account, $31,500. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The reason I asked that question 
 was this : The first witness stated that he got $3,000 a 
 year, and that in view of this gentleman's statement 
 that the balance was $150,000 for a year and a half, that 
 at 3 per cent, wopld amount to $4,500 a year. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I see in Mr. Gray's term the balance 
 was very much reduced. The first year it was reduced 
 to $13,000, the State account ; the second year, $3,000 ; 
 third year, $3,000 ; on school moneys, it stayed at 
 $5,000 during the three years. The special railroad 
 money, $22,000, and stayed at that through the three 
 years, so that it was $30,000 during Mr. Gray's term, 
 and about $150,000 during Colonel Davis' time. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I would rather have been clerk than 
 State Treasurer. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— It is now $3,000 in the State Fund ; 
 
 $22,000 in the Railroad Fund; and §5,000 in the School 
 
 Fund. 
 
 Q. Did you understand what purposes these payments were 
 
 made for ? A. During Mr. Goldsmith's administration the inter- 
 
JOHN DAVIS. 591 
 
 est first began on this deposit; I knew nothing about any 
 arrangement. 
 
 Q. Do you know for what purpose Mr. Hulme collected the 
 money ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you understand at any period of time ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You knew the State didn't get it ? A. No, I didn't know 
 the State didn't get it. 
 
 Q. Did you think the State did get it ? A. 1 expected it did. 
 
 Q. The arragement then wasn't made with you originally ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you pay it by check or cash? ^4. Cash. 
 
 Q. Monthly? A. Monthly up to the last year — one payment 
 six months. 
 
 Q. Did you charge it to the interest account? A. Yes; our 
 books will show it. 
 
 Q. The books show the exact amount? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you brought with you any statement ot the exact 
 amount? J.. No; I didn't know that I needed that; our books 
 will show ; I can send it. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhbes. 
 
 Q. Did you understand this interest money was to go to the 
 State? A. I supposed it was to go to the State ; I knew nothing 
 about what became of it. 
 
 Q. Why, then, did you pay it to an unauthorized agent of the 
 State; why didn't you pay it directly to the State? A. I simply 
 paid it because it was the custom that Mr. Goldsmith established 
 as cashier. 
 
 Q. You were simply following his steps? A. I was following 
 instructions he had given me. 
 
 Q. How were those payments entered in the bank books ; was 
 it charged by interest, profit and loss, or credited to the State on 
 its books ? A. It was charged up to the interest account. 
 
 Q. You have a separate interest account, do you ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. You paid it diractly by money? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Directly to Mr. Hulme? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. No check? A. No check. 
 
 Q. You followed the old custom ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. A little irregular, wasn't it ? A. No. 
 
 Q. Pay interest moneys by cash itself generally, do you, on 
 accounts ? A. We do. 
 
 Q. Not by check ? A. Not by check. 
 
 Q. It wasn't credited up to the State account? A. No, sir. 
 
592 JOHN DAVIS. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— Didn't you say that you thought that 
 went to the State account ; but by paying him the money, the 
 large amount, wasn't there a suspicion in your mind that that 
 went for political purposes ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you take any written receipt from him to show that 
 you had discharged your indebtedness to him ? A. E"o. 
 
 Q. Nor any receipt from the State, to whom you thought the 
 money went ? J.. No ; we pay interest on deposits and take no 
 receipt. 
 
 Q. That is when you pay it by check ? A. Not at all ; we 
 pay interest on deposits semi-annually and charge it to the inter- 
 est account without taking any receipt from the party we pay it 
 to. We pay interest on deposits that we have, certificates of 
 deposit, without taking any receipt. 
 
 Q. That is right, when you pay out the certificates, yes ? A. 
 "We don't have any voucher for that except the ticket we get 
 for it. 
 
 Q. But in this particular State Fund account you didn't credit 
 the State even with interest? A. No. 
 
 Q. Nor did you charge it with the interest when you paid it ? 
 A. We charged it to the interest account. 
 
 Q. Only the interest account and not the State Fund account? 
 A. No. 
 
 Q. How, then, do you know, from your books, that you had 
 paid the interest ? A. Oar books will show. 
 
 Q. Show where ? A. In the interest account. 
 
 Q. A specific entry of interest paid to the State ? A. Interest 
 on the deposit. 
 
 Q. Interest on the State deposit ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't state to whom ? A. No. 
 
 Q. You keep no account with the State, then, except as the 
 deposits were entered there and the checks were entered that the 
 State drew on the fund ? A. That is all. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Mr. Hulme seemed to be the agent 
 of the State Treasurer. Did you meet any other State officers 
 during that time, or did you receive your deposits through Mr. 
 Hulme ? A. That arrangement was made by Mr. Goldsmith. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm^ — I mean when the deposits were made 
 by the State ; how were they, by checks through the mail, or did 
 Mr. Hulme bring the deposits ? A. Mr. Hulme, I think, brought 
 the deposits with the book. 
 
 (J. (By Senator Skirm) — Isn't it a little strange that that 
 amount of money, aggregating in one year $4,500, should be 
 
JOHN DAVIS. 593 
 
 paid to Mr. Hulme for an account with the State, and not credited 
 to the account of the State as interest? A. No; I think not. 
 
 Q. Is that the way you enter all your interest charges in all 
 your other accounts. You have several accounts on which you 
 allow interest? A. We have certificates which we allow interest 
 which we do in the same manner. 
 
 Q. Well, do you have any individual private accounts on which 
 you allow interest ? A. No. 
 
 Q. It is only on this and on certificates ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Those certificates of deposit draw interest only after the 
 funds have remained there for a considerable length of time ? 
 A. No ; the next day they can use the certificate of deposit, and 
 we pay interest on the exact time the money has been there. 
 
 Q. The rules of your bank require that these funds, in order 
 to entitle them to interest, shall remain a certain length of time 
 before you allow any ? A. In the first instance they do, but not 
 after. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — In that case, where you are paying 
 interest on accounts, isn't it the custom to simply credit the ac- 
 count with the amount of interest ? A. Not always. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But in some cases? A. In some 
 cases. 
 
 Q. Tell me ; you enter in your book certificate of deposit for 
 $10,042 credited with a certain sum of money, don't you? A. 1 
 don't understand that. 
 
 Q. What record do you keep of the certificates of deposit 
 issued by you? A. We keep regular account. 
 
 Q. Eegular, account with the certificates of deposit? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Where do you enter the interest that those deposits make 
 — those certificates of deposit ? A. Interest account. 
 
 Q. Only in the interest account? A. That is all. 
 
 Q. You have paid the interest on a certificate of deposit to Mr. 
 A. How do you know that he isn't entitled to receive the same 
 amount again ? A. We don't designate as Mr. A. We desig- 
 nate by the number. 
 
 Q. Then have you always got to hunt up whether certificate of 
 deposit 1042 has received its interest ? A. If we want to know 
 whether it is or not. 
 
 Q. You have to look through all your books? A. We look 
 at the number. 
 
 Q. Then don't you charge to that number the interest when it 
 is paid? A. We charge the interest account, specifying the 
 number, for instance, interest on certificate No. 1042. 
 
 38 SH 
 
594 WILLIAM W. STOKES. 
 
 Q. And credit what account? A, "We credit no account; if 
 we pay the cash out we don't credit any account. 
 
 William W. Stokes, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Moorestown. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Secretary and Treasurer ot 
 the Burlington Safe Deposit and Trust Company. 
 
 Q. That is located at Moorestown ? A. Moorestown. 
 
 Q. How long have you been Secretary? A. 1890, when we 
 begun. 
 
 Q. Do you know Mr. Hulme? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you hear his testimony? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you personally make payments to him as he stated ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. When did they begin? A. The latter part of 1890, I think. 
 
 Q, And continued until what time? A. October, 189i. 
 
 Q. How often did you pay ? A. As often as every three or 
 four months. 
 
 Q. Were payments made at regular intervals ? A. Not regu- 
 lar intervals, no, sir ; it might run three months, and might be 
 four. 
 
 Q. What determined the interval ; did he determine the inter- 
 val ? A. Mr. Hulme would come in personally to collect it. 
 
 Q. Was the money paid to him by check or in cash? A. Cash. 
 
 Q. And how was the sum arrived at? A. On the basis of 3 
 per cent. 
 
 Q. During the entire years you have mentioned? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Three per cent, upon the amount of the balance of the State 
 with you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. About what did the balance of the State run at your bank, 
 do you remember about? A. With the exceptions of two or 
 three months I think only about $10,000. 
 
 Q. I see October, 1894, it is 10,000 and odd dollars in the 
 special railroad account. Did you have some of the other 
 moneys as well ? A. JSTo ; that was all. 
 
 Q. How high did your balances run? A. Well, with the ex- 
 ception I juat stated, I don't think it was above $10,000 at any 
 time? 
 
 Q. I see in 1891 it was $12,000 at one time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you understand for what purpose this money was paid ? 
 A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Was there any statement made to you by Mr. Hulme on 
 that subject ? A. No, sir. 
 
AMOS GIBBS. 595 
 
 Q. The arrangement was made between you and he ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Who made it with him originally? A. I expect our presi- 
 dent, 
 
 §. Who was that ? 4. William M. Paul. 
 
 Q. Is he here ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you charge this to? A. In his account. 
 
 Q. And you were aware that it did not go to the State, I 
 suppose "i A. 1 wasn't aware of it; no, sir. 
 
 Q. You, personally, didn't know of the arrangement by which 
 this was paid ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Does anybody besides Mr. Paul know the details of it? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Payments made by you when you were acting under your 
 superior officer ? A. Payments were made by me as treasurer. 
 
 Q. About 1300 a year, then, that you paid ? A. About. 
 
 Amos Gibbs, affirmed. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Cokbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Mount Holly. 
 
 Q. Are you one of the directors of the Mount Holly National 
 Bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you hear the testimony of Mr. Hulme here to-day. A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were you aware of this arrangement between your bank 
 and him ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You were not? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. When did you first learn of it ? A. When I savv it in the 
 newspaper. 
 
 Q. Well, you were aware that your bank was paying money 
 for interest on the State's fund? A. On ceitiiicates of deposit 
 only. 
 
 Q. Were you not aware that you were paying upon some of 
 the State's money that was with you? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, when the newspapers have reported that you have 
 said that your bank has paid as much as 3 per cent, bonus, or in- 
 terest, on the State deposit, it was inaccurate, was it ? A. No, 
 sir; the cashier told me so ; I interviewed him. 
 
 Q. You are quoted as having said that? A. I did say it. 
 
 q. When did you learn it? A. Since I saw the newspaper; 
 I went and asked the cashier about it, and he told me so. 
 
 Q. Is that the first knowledge you had of money being paid 
 on the State's deposit? A. Yes, sir; I had no idfea of it. 
 
596 ALFRED DORAN JESSE WELLS. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Yoorhees) — Did you examine the books 
 afterwards to find out whether, as a matter of fact, money had 
 been paid? A. 'So; they admitted it; told me they had. 
 
 Q. How long ago was it that you learned it ? ^. A couple of 
 months ago. 
 
 Q. Do you happen to know how much your bank paid? A. 
 That is all by hearsay, about eighteen br twenty thousand a year, 
 paid interest on it at 3 per cent, first and 2 per cent, aftewards. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You are connected with the Union 
 ISTational Bank ? A. No; Mount Holly. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then you don't know of your own 
 knowledge ; you do know from what the cashier may have told 
 you, that you paid the interest on about ^20,000? A. I under- 
 stand it was $18,000, and $5,000 in the active fund; they didn't 
 pay interest on that ; and $18,000 in the other fund ; 3 per cent. 
 tor the first two years and 2 per cent, after; I should imagine 
 about $350 or $400. 
 
 Alfred Doran, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Mount Holly. 
 
 Q. Are you one of the directors of the Mount Holly National 
 Bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "When did you first hear of this matter of interest on State 
 deposits ? A. About a month ago, I think ; I first saw it in one 
 of the papers. 
 
 Q. You had no knowledge of it previous to that time ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know Mr. Hulme? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And were you not aware that the ofiicers of the bank were 
 paying the moneys to Mr. Hulme 1 A. I was not aware of it. 
 
 Jesse Wells, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me,. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You reside in Mount Holly 1 A. I do, sir. 
 
 Q. What do you know about this paying money out? A. I 
 don't Isnow anything about it. 
 
 Q. I see your name mentioned in connection with it iu the 
 newspapers; are you a director of any of these banks? A. No, 
 sir ; all I know is from hearsay. 
 
 Q. You have no personal knowledge of it ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You know these gentlemen who have testified? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And Mr. Hulme, I presume ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
HENRY EISDON. 597 
 
 Q. When did you first learn of this subject? A. Not until 
 after it came out in the papers; Mr. Matlack came before the 
 Committee and preferred charges. 
 
 Q. Not until after Mr. Matlack made his statement ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Henry Risdon, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. You reside in Mount Holly? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are you a director of any of the banks there ? A. Direc- 
 tor of the Farmers' Bank. 
 
 Q. When did you first learn of this matter of payment on 
 account of State deposits ? A. About two years ago ; I heard it 
 by accident. 
 
 Q. Did it come up before your board ? A. No; I heard it on 
 the street ; the circumstance was that I didn't attend a meeting 
 of the board one morning, but I met a director after tbe meeting 
 and asked him what they had done, and he said they didn't do 
 anything; I knew we had a large balance, and I asked him what 
 was the reason, he said the cashier said better not do anything, 
 the State had called on them for $40,000 or $50,000; I didn't 
 know we had any, and I asked him how was that, and he said 
 we had about $100,000 of State money ; he is a little deaf, and 
 .so was I, and I thought he had made a mistake, and I went down 
 to see the cashier about it; I asked him about it, and he said 
 "yes, we have the money." I said, "how is it the matter never 
 came before the board ? " "Well," he said, " one or two direc- 
 tors knew of it." I told him I was opposed to anything of the 
 kind ; I didn't believe that a country bank could afford to keep 
 such a large balance and pay interest on it. I brought the 
 matter up before the board and talked the matter over, but that 
 was all that was done. 
 
 Q. It was continued, was it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who was the President ot your bank ? A. Mr. Alfred 
 
 Black. 
 
 Q. Was Mr. Howell one of the directors of your bank? A. 
 No ; he was a director of the Mount Holly. 
 
 Q. But then it was talked over by the Board and it was 
 thought best for them not to discontinue the arrangement ? A. 
 Yes, I believe so. 
 
 Q. Did you understand for what purposes the moneys were 
 paid? A. Well, I don't believe there was a bargain by the 
 Board, but I supposed the State Treasurer got the money until 
 it come out in the paper. 
 
598 JOHN E. HOWELL. 
 
 Q. Who made the arrangement origiually on behalf ot your 
 bank. A. I believe our former cashier, Mr. Goldsmith ; he died 
 last July a year ago. 
 
 Q. (By Senator. Skirm)— If the Board of Directors had sup- 
 posed that the money was being used for political purposes, or a 
 personal contribution to Mr. Hulme, would it ever have been 
 paid by your bank? A. Of course not; every director supposed 
 that the money was paid to the State Treasurer. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— That is, your Board of Directors 
 believed that the money went to the benefit of the State ? ^. I 
 never heard anything to the contrary until I saw in the paper 
 that it was paid to Mr. Hulme. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — If you had supposed that it had been 
 used for that purpose the bank would never have continued it ? 
 
 Ai No, certainly not. 
 
 John E. Howell sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Coebtn. 
 
 Q. You reside in Mount Holly ? ^. I do. 
 
 Q. Are you director of one of the Mount Holly banks ? A. 
 The Mount Holly National Bank. 
 
 Q. You are aware that your bank was paying a bonus, or 
 interest, on the State deposits? A. Not until a few months ago; 
 Judge Lee told me. 
 
 Q. That is your cashier? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you understand the purpose of the contributions at 
 that time ? A. I supposed that it came to the State Treasurer. 
 
 Q. Do you know who made the arrangement on behalf of 
 your bank ? A. Not positively, except I have heard Judge Lee 
 testify here this morning that he made it. 
 
 Q. Didn't your Board know of if previous to the time that you 
 learned it? A. Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Was the arrangement continued after you learned it? A. 
 I think not; I didn't know it — I think Mr. Swain, the present 
 Treasurer — I think there has been nothing paid since then. 
 
 Q. Nothing paid since the present Treasurer took his office? 
 A. That is the way I understand it. 
 
 Q. Was it brought up before your Board when you learned it? 
 A. It was not. 
 
 Q. With whom, then, did you discuss it? ^4. I heard Judge 
 Lee speak ot it incidentally one day after the Board meeting. 
 
 Q. It is your custom to pay interest, I suppose, in your bank. 
 A. It is on certificates of deposit, 2 per cent. 
 
JOSEPH L, HULMB. 599 
 
 Joseph L. Hulme, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. In your statement you said that you received about $3,000 
 a year, and by the statement of one gentleman here who states that 
 you received interest of 3 per cent, for a year and a half on 
 $150,000 — A. He is mistaken ; it was only there for a few 
 months. 
 
 Q. But even for a few months it would possibly amount to 
 more than that? A. I think Mr. Risdon said there was a large 
 draft on them; I think we drew out — the statement you have 
 there is the 31st of October; I think that was largely reduced 
 about the 1st of January. 
 
 Q. His statement was right clear and emphatic, that for a year 
 and a half it was $150,000 ; there wasn't any possibility of mis* 
 understanding what that officer said ; for this interest you got 
 $4,500 ; I want to know whether that is true "i A. 1 did not. 
 
 Q. How much money did you receive ? J.. I never kept any 
 account of it. 
 
 Q. You didn't? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You didn't keep an account of the money you received ? 
 A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Why not ? J.. I didn't have any occasion to. 
 
 q. You didn't? A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. And then all this money went into your pocket simply for 
 your own use when you came into the political campaign ; I un- 
 derstand you to say this money was spent in the fall campaign ? 
 A. Principally. 
 
 Q. That was what you had left? A. That was pretty much 
 all of it. 
 
 Q You mean you spent $4,500 and $3,000 for political pur- 
 poses in the fall campaign in Burlington county ? A. The books 
 of the Treasurer's office will show. 
 
 Q. Now I ask you ; you ought to know t A. 1 said the gen- 
 ileman is mistaken as to the time — 
 
 Q. Well, you think that your receipts did not exceed $3,000 
 per year ? A. 1 think not ; take the average of the four years 
 through ; that is what I am getting at. 
 
 Q. And I understood your salary in the Treasurer's office was 
 $1,700? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that you have been there nine years? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. Under three Treasurers? J.. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And further, that these gentlemen had no knowledga what- 
 ever of your making this arrangement? A. None whatever; 
 neither did they derive any benefit from it. 
 
6G0 JOSEPH L. HULME. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Then you received about $12,000^ 
 all told, in this per cent, business? A. 1 think some $10,000 or 
 112,000; I haven't kept any account of it ; I never counted 
 the money when they gave it to me, just put it away and used it. 
 
 Q. That is worse and worse ; you mean to say that you simply 
 went in and took what these gentlemen gave you, without know- 
 ing how much money you got? A. Practically. 
 
 Q. No ; actually — not practically, but actually 1 A. I had a 
 general idea how much. 
 
 Q. No, no ; but do you mean to say that you received money 
 from a bank officer without knowing how much money you re- 
 ceived ? A. 1 say I know pretty near. 
 
 Q. I asked you a direct question, whether you didn't know 
 how much money you received when a bank officer paid you 
 money, didn't you know bow much you got? A. Well, now,. 
 Senator, I simply want to say to you that sometimes I counted it 
 and sometimes I did not ; sometimes it was handed to me in an 
 envelope, sealed, but, as I said, I had a general idea. 
 
 Q. How could you account for it when you come to render a 
 political contribution, how could you render your account? A. 
 I didn't render any account. 
 
 Q. Then you were simply proprietor of that money? A. I 
 dispensed it as I saw proper. 
 
 Q. Do you think that is a fair, legitimate way of running the 
 position in the State Treasurer's office, and compromise your 
 chief by any such means ? ^. I have no desire to compromise 
 him, and did not in any way, never attempted to. 
 
 Q. Don't you see the eflect of this with the community, now 
 that this exposure has been made, that every State Treasurer 
 while you have been employed suffers to a certain extent by it? 
 A. Well, I am very sorry if they do, but under the present state- 
 ment of the others and myself, I can't see how they can suffer. 
 
 Q. One other question, and then I am through. Did I under- 
 stand you to say that during these four years you have spent 
 about |3,000 for political contributions in Burlington county 
 alone? A. Practically so. 
 
 Q. Then there must be a great deal of money spent in Bur- 
 lington county? A. There generally is. 
 
 Q. The results haven't shown it. A. I think it has. 
 
 Q. On the political side it is not shown, but to me this is a sort 
 of a heinous crime, that a man who is in a State position should 
 simply make a levy on the men who are under his power and 
 make assessments on this line. A. It was a mutual matter. 
 
 Q. Did these gentlemen derive any benefit from it ? A. Who? 
 
STATE BOARD OF ASBESS0E8. 6Ul 
 
 Q. The gentlemen who paid you. A. ITo, sir ; I presume the 
 bank did. 
 
 Q. Upon deposits, you mean ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Adjourned till Tuesday, April 23d, 1895, at 10 A.M. 
 
 April 23d, 10 A. M., 1895. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to draw the attention of the Committee 
 to certain expenditures of the State Board of Assessors, some of 
 which were charged to the account of that Board, and others of 
 which appear in other State accounts, such as Printing or Station- 
 ery, or possibly other accounts. And first I wish to call the 
 attention of the Committee to certain expenditures in connection 
 with the printing of the annual report of the State Board of 
 Assessors, and particularly at the outset to the printing of certain 
 maps which the State Board of Assessors caused to be printed 
 and published. 
 
 In the report of the Board for the year 1887, pages 25 and 26, 
 of the printed volume, we read " That proper information on this 
 important subject may be made more ample and definite, and 
 that the location and extent of each road in the State may be 
 clearly shown, the Board has had prepared under its supervision 
 a large and complete railroad map which will accompany this re- 
 port, and to which the attention of the Legislature is respectfully 
 called." 
 
 In the report of the year 1888, at page 20, is the following 
 allusion to the same subject : " The map of the railroads of ITew 
 Jersey, which accompanied the report last year, has been so well 
 received that the Board concluded to adopt it as a part of this 
 year's report. The location and extent of each railroad and 
 canal appear, as well as every branch line, and it has proven a 
 valuable medium of information." 
 
 The report for 1889, at page 17, has the following : " The map 
 of the railroads of New Jersey, which accompanied the report 
 of last year, has been so much in demand that the Board has 
 concluded to adopt it (with some improvements) as a part of this 
 year's report." 
 
 The report of 1890, at pages 15 and 16, has the following: 
 " The maps of of the railroads of New Jersey which has accom- 
 panied previous reports has been re-adopted as a part of this 
 year's report. The plan followed in the report of 1889, the 
 grouping of useful information under the head of each railroad 
 company, with financial statistics, &c., has also been carried out." 
 
602 J. BBOGNARD BETTS. 
 
 The report of 1891, page 16, has the following : " The map of 
 the railroads of 'New Jersey which has accompanied previous 
 reports has been re-adopted as a part of this year's report." 
 
 The report of 1892, page 9, has the following: "The map of 
 the railroads of New Jersey which accompanied the report last 
 year has been so much in demand that the Board has concluded 
 to re-adopt it, with some improvements, as a part of this year's 
 report." 
 
 The report of 1893, at page 12, has the following : " The map 
 of the railroads of ISTew Jersey which has accompanied previous 
 reports has been greatly improved, and adopted as a part of this 
 report." 
 
 The report for 1894 has not yet been printed, and I haven't it at 
 hand. 
 
 The map referred to and which accompanied the report of 
 1887, is the map which I will exhibit to the Committee, and be- 
 fore I proceed further I will call a witness who will be able to 
 identify these maps. 
 
 J. Brognard Bbtts, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Somerville, New Jersey. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation? A. I am employed in the De- 
 partment of Public Instruction. 
 
 Q. How long have you been employed there? A. Nearly 
 twenty years. 
 
 Q. I show you a printed map entitled, " Map of the railroads' 
 of New Jersey, 1887, compiled and drawn by John T. Van Cleef 
 and J. Brognard Betts, copyright 1887 by Van Cleef & Betts by 
 authority of the State Board of Assessors of New Jersey ; " did 
 you assist to compile that map? A. I did. 
 
 Q. Look at this drawn map which I show you, and say whether 
 that is the original from which the printed one was reduced. A. 
 Yes, sir; it is. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence first original drawn 
 map, which will be " Exhibit 207," and also the printed 
 map which I have shown, which will be " Exhibit 208." 
 
 Q. Who assisted you in drawing this map? A. Colonel Van 
 Cleef. 
 
 Q. Are you a draughtsman? A. Somewhat; I have done 
 more or less of it. 
 
 Q. And you actually drew this map with your own hand, did 
 you not? A. Oh, yes. 
 
 (i). Where was it done? A. Done in Somerville. 
 
J. BBOGNAKD BETTS. 603 
 
 Q. What map did you take from which to make your outline 
 of the State and topographical features? A. We had several 
 maps ; I think it was called the Smith & Stoup map. 
 
 Q. That is a Philadelphia publication ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I suppose you had the State geological maps? A. Yes, sir, 
 and some blue-prints from the railroad companies of their lines. 
 
 Q. Did you adopt the same scale that the Smith & Stoup map 
 had ? J.. I think not ; I can't be sure of that; I think this is a 
 little larger ; that is my recollection of it. 
 
 Q. This is the map, is it not, referred to by the State Board of 
 Asaessors in their reports, which I have read ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Col. Yan Cleef, of whom you have spoken, was the Secre- 
 tary of the State Board of Assessors? A. He was. 
 
 Q. And is still ? A. He is. 
 
 Q. Did you ever do any draughting or map making for the 
 State Board of Assessors except this ? A . No ; oh, well, yes, we 
 did some ; we made three or four county maps, showing the loca- 
 tion of the railroad buildings and property inside of the main 
 stems and some property outside of the main stems. 
 
 Q. When was that "i A. I think that was prior to this ; that 
 is my recollection ; yes, I know it was. 
 
 Q. Where was that done ? A. Somerville, most of it ; one of 
 them, I think, we completed down here, but the main work was 
 done there. 
 
 Q. You had this map transferred to stone and printed, did you 
 not? A. I believe we did. 
 
 Q. That was done by—? A. Thomas & Wylie. 
 
 Q. The imprint is " H. A. Thomas & Wylie, lithographers, 
 7 East 19th street. New York"? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was done in time to have the maps accompany the re- 
 port of 1887, I suppose ? J.. I don't think it was out until after 
 the report was printed ; I think the map was sent out afterwards. 
 
 Q. About the latter part of 1887 or 1888. A. About that, as 
 near as I can recollect. 
 
 Q. I see it is stated on the map that it is copyrighted in 1887 
 by Van Cleef & Betts ? A. We copyrighted the title before the 
 entire map was completed. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact the map was not completed until 1888, 
 was it? A. It was coyyrighted, but it was not completed; we 
 copyrighted the title before the map was entirely completed, so 
 as to save the copyright. 
 
 Q. I have from the Librarian of Congress a message, to the 
 effect that it was copyrighted by Van Cleef & Betts in 1888 ? A. 
 I may have been mistaken, but I thought I sent it out in 1887. 
 
604 J BROGNARD BETTS. 
 
 Q. But as soon as it was completed it was copyrighted? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You ordered an edition of this map as soon as you had it 
 transferred to the stone ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And do you happen to remember how many copies were in 
 that edition? A. No, I do not. 
 
 Q. Was it not six thousand ? A. It was as many as that, but 
 it was some time ago and I don't remember now. 
 
 Q. Did you ever order another edition from the Thomas & 
 Wylie people after that? A. My impression is we did. 
 
 Q. When was it? A. 1 think it was the next year. 
 
 Q. Is it anything more than an impression ? A. The second 
 edition ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. I should say the eecond edition was the same 
 map. 
 
 Q. That was not what I asked you; was any second order 
 ever given to the Thomas-Wylie people for any more imj rints of 
 this map ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you the bills for it ? A. J. have not ; no. 
 
 Q. Where are they? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. Who ordered it, if it was ordered ? A. Colonel Van Cleef, 
 I think. 
 
 Q. Did you ever order any? A. I was with him when he 
 ordered them the first time; I don't remember whether I was 
 the second time or not. 
 
 Q. How do you know that a second edition was ever ordered? 
 A. Well, there is a good many things, you know, that is hard to 
 explain ; I saw them about it ; they delayed the work ; my im- 
 pression is they said they were getting it out as fast as they 
 could. 
 
 Q. Are you speaking of the first edition now ? A. 'Eo ; I am 
 speaking of the second. 
 
 Q. What year was it ? A. My impression is that it was about 
 the year after the first edition was printed. 
 
 Q. You say you went there to see them about it ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Who did you see 1 A. \ saw difierent persons at diflerent 
 times when I was in there ; I saw Mr. Wylie. 
 
 Q. How many copies did that edition consist of ? A. That I 
 don't remember. 
 
 Q. Did you ever go again for any third edition ? A. ISTot that 
 I recollect. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether any third one was ordered ? .4. I 
 dotf t recollect. 
 
J. BROGNAED EBTTS. 605 
 
 Q. Personally you never paid for any of these editions, did 
 you ? A. 'No. 
 
 Q. Colonel Van Cleef had charge of that? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Have you the bills for any of them ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Can you state the dates when any of them were either 
 ordered or paid for ? A. No, I could not. 
 
 Q. When the first edition was ordered I understand you to say 
 that you went together ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. To see about them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And when the second edition was ordered you went there 
 once to see about them? A. My impression is we went together; 
 I think we went together, and I think he went afterwards, and I 
 think I made a trip alone too; there was several interviews with 
 them to get the work along. 
 
 Q. You subsequently had this map photographed and trans- 
 ferred to metal, did you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the scale somewhat reduced ? A. The scale was some- 
 what reduced and corrections made, new roads put on, and so on. 
 Q. I show you a printed map entitled " Map of the Railroads 
 of New Jersey, 1893 and 1894, compiled and drawn by John T. 
 Van Cleef and J. Brognard Betts, copyright 1892, by Van Cleef 
 and Betts ; published by resolution of the State Board of Asses- 
 sors." Is that the reduced photographic copy ? A. It is. 
 
 Q. And was that made as indicated by the copyright in 1892 ? 
 
 A. It was, but I don't think we ever received a copyright for it. 
 
 Q. The copyright was not in fact entered? A. No. I wrote 
 
 to them, and I received no response, and the map was already 
 
 printed. 
 
 Q. So that the only copyright on file is the one which was 
 entered on the first one ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This is not in fact copyrighted then ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Upon this, Mr. Betts, you say you entered certain new 
 roads which had been construced ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. For example, look at the branch near Sandy Hook where 
 the line was changed to the Atlantic Highlands. That appears, 
 does it not ; it was not on the original ? A. Yes, sir ; that wasn't 
 running over here from Mattawan to Navesink, that branch ; 
 that just run to Sandy Hook peninsula. 
 
 Q. You placed on this new map with a pen such parts of rail- 
 roads as had been constructed between 1887 and 1892? A. Yes 
 sir. 
 
 Q. So as to bring this up to 1892? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr, Corbin — I ofler this map in evidence, and the 
 same will be marked " Exhibit 209." 
 
606 J. BROGNARD BETTS. 
 
 Witness — I think there were other changes made 
 besides that, that is, other railroads added besides that. 
 Q. Those two are the only two that have ever been made, are 
 they not? A. As far as I know; I don't recollect any other. 
 
 Q. I show you now another copy of this last printed map, with 
 the title, "Map of the Railroads of K J., 1894 and 1895, com- 
 piled and drawn by Van Cleef & Betts, copyright 1892." Is 
 there any difference between these last two that I have shown 
 you, except that the date 1893 and 1894 is changed to 1894 and 
 1895? A. I couldn't say ; I made no changes. 
 
 Q. Well, you are not aware that any changes have been made ? 
 A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. And the maps, then, that have been published have not 
 been brought up beyond the date 1892, have they? A. So far 
 as I know, no. 
 
 Q. You are familiar with the new line built by the Lehigh 
 Valley Railroad, are you not, in Hudson county? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Which runs across the Newark Bay? A. Yes, sir; reason- 
 ably so. 
 
 Q. Look at this one which is marked 1894 and 1895, and say 
 whether that line is laid down on the map ? A. No, I don't see 
 it there. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with the Perth Amboy and Raritan Rail- 
 road, built some three or four years ago ? A. No, I am not. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with the new branch of the Central Rail- 
 road, built from Perth Amboy up to the clay lands of Wood- 
 bridge ? A. No. 
 
 Q. They are not upon this map, are they? A. I don't know ; 
 I am not familiar with them. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence this map, which will 
 be marked "Exhibit 210." 
 
 I can get from the files of the Secretary of State the 
 file lines of those roads, but if the Committee are at all 
 familiar with the lines they will observe that the Perth 
 Amboy & Raritan Railroad, which has been in use for 
 two or three years I should say, is not upon this map ; 
 and the Lehigh Valley line through Hudson county and 
 across the Newark Bay, which has been constructed for 
 as long, is not here. This map bears date 1894-95. I 
 haven't gone over it further, but without examining the 
 map closely, as may be done by comparison, of course, 
 with the filed lines, my impression is that the witness is 
 entirely correct when he says that since 1892 there has 
 been nothing laid down here that has been constructed. 
 
J. BROGNARD BETTS. 607 
 
 Witness — That is, as far as I know. 
 Mr. Corbin — A further examination of those filed 
 lines will determine it of course. 
 
 Q. Do you happen to remember the cost of the making of this 
 stotie, and the printing of the first edition of these maps by the 
 Thomas & Wylie Company? A. My impression is that the stone 
 cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $750, is my recollection, 
 although I am not positive about it. 
 
 Q. Wasn't the first edition of maps six thousand copies and 
 didn't that edition, together with the making of the stone, cost 
 you $650 ? A. Well, that I doa't remember ; my impression is 
 that it was $750, but it is some time ago and I can't recollect 
 now. 
 
 Q. The first order you gave included the stone and the first 
 lot of maps ? A. \ think it did. 
 
 Q. Have you anything in your possession to show what it cost 
 you ? A. ISTo, I have nothing. 
 
 Q. Have you continued to be be interested in this map up to 
 the present time, or has your interest ceased ? A. \ haven't 
 done anything with it or paid any attention to it in a couple of 
 years. 
 
 Q. ISTor to the revenue from it ? A. No, sir ; I haven't 
 received anything from it since — 
 
 Q. You say a couple of years? A. Since the revision of 1892 ; 
 that would be three years. 
 
 Q. You did in the revision of 1892? A. Yes; since that I — 
 
 Q. When the revision of 1892 was made and the first edition 
 made from that, you had an interest in that ? A. Yes, sir; I 
 had an interest in that. 
 
 Q. Had you had an interest in all the editions that had been 
 furnished annually before that? A. I don't remember that I 
 received any revenue from it every year ; I don't think I did ; 
 I think I got revenue three years ; that is my recollection of it. 
 
 Q. And that was the revenue originally when it was made ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you had the revenue when it was revised ? A. I 
 think I had one before that ; that is my recollection. 
 
 Q. But you haven't been interested in the other years of its 
 publication ? A. No, sir, certainly not since 1892. 
 
 Q. Your interest in it grew out of the fact that you actually 
 drew it and made it? A. \. helped to draw it; we both worked 
 on it. 
 
 §. Did you not chiefly do the work,? A. No, I wouldn't say 
 that; I did portions of the work; I plotted the map, and the 
 
608 J. BROGNARD BETTS. 
 
 Colonel did a good deal of the laying down of the railroads and 
 most of the lettering ; I plotted the outlines of the State, counties 
 and townships, and he laid down a good many of the roads and 
 did most of the lettering. 
 
 Q. I show you a voucher, No. 1520, March, 1886, John T. Van 
 Cleef, charged to the State Assessors' account, in which is 
 charged " draughting table, rule, &c., in use at Somerville, |12.50, 
 and one roll drawing paper, linen back, $8.45 ; " was that the 
 draughting table in use at Somerville for this work? A. I pre- 
 sume it was ; I don't know of any other ; I dout know. 
 
 Q. So the State furnished the draughting paper and table ? A. 
 I presume it did ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you a voucher, Fo. 2722, " John T. "Van Cleef to 
 the State Board of Assessors," dated June, 1886, " for freight on 
 draughting table and cartage;" that refers to the same material, 
 does it? A. I could hardly answer that. 
 
 Q. The item is this, " Freight and cartage on draughting table, 
 65 cents." I show you your own voucher against the State Board 
 of Assessors in December, 1886, for |60, " to work on county rail- 
 road maps for State Board of Assessors to October 1, 1886"; 
 that is the county maps to which you referred ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that was work that you were doing at Somerville for 
 the Board? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you voucher — State Board, April, 1886, No. 1779, 
 '* To work on the county railroad maps, December, 1885, Janu- 
 ary, February and March, 1886." That also is for the same work 
 on the railroad maps, isn't it? A. Yes, sir; on those county 
 maps. 
 
 Senator Skirm — What do I understand ? Are there 
 two maps, or does it mean that map ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This work the witness has said was done 
 at Somerville, and I asked him a little while ago 
 whether he ever did any work on the railroad maps 
 except this work. He said yes, he did do some work 
 for the State Board of Assessors on the county railroad 
 maps, and these vouchers which I have put in he says 
 refer to that work. 
 
 Witness — Refers to those county maps. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And not to these ? A. Not to these ; 
 no, sir. 
 
 Q. So that, BO far as this railroad map is concerned, you were 
 doing work upon your own account during the same months, and 
 did certain work on these county railroad maps for the State 
 Board of Assessors ? A. Yes, sir; most of this work was done — 
 
J. BROGNARD BETrS. 609 
 
 very little on those done while we were at work on this ; this 
 was taken up really after the county maps were done ; they were 
 practically completed. 
 
 Q. I show you voucher 2931, July, 1886, to the State Board of 
 Assessors, for draughting implements, $10.71, paid by the State ; 
 was that for the material used at Somerville 2 A. 1 don't know ; 
 I had my own draughting implements ; I can't tell about his ; I 
 don't know anything about that bill. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Don't' you know whether the articles 
 were used by you and Mr. Van Cleef ? A. No ; we had draught- 
 ing implements there, but whether they were included in that 
 bill I can't say. 
 
 Q. You did no draughting in Trenton ? A. Well, we finished 
 up one or two of the county maps here, but the main work was 
 'done up there. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence a bill of the State of 
 New Jersey to John T. Van Cleef, May, 1888, contain- 
 ing sundry items, among others the following items : 
 "Mounting 75 roller maps, at 35 cents, $26.25; mount- 
 ing 75 book maps, at 55 cents, |41.25," and marked 
 " Exhibit 211." 
 
 Also voucher 1288, July, 1888, State of New Jersey 
 to John T. Van Cleef, containing sundry items, among 
 which are the following: "50 mounted maps book 
 form, $27.50 ; 20 mounted maps, roller form, $7 ; 25 
 mounted railroad maps, book form, $13.75 ; 25 mounted 
 railroad maps, roller form, $7." Marked " Exhibit 212." 
 Also voucher No. 3491, October, 1888, State of New 
 Jersey to John T. Van Cleef, bill for sundry items, 
 among which are the following : " 50 mounted maps, 
 $17.50; 25 mounted maps, book form, $13.75." Marked 
 " Exhibit 213." 
 
 Also voucher No. 1913 ; Gaylord & Watson's bill, for 
 mounting 75 maps, $26.50. " Exhibit 214." 
 
 Also voucher 2382, JohnL. Murphy Publishing Com- 
 pany, May, 1890, for sundry items, among others the 
 mounting and casing of 100 railroad maps, $45, and the 
 certificate "I certify the necessity of the articles named 
 in the above bill was not known at the time of making 
 the requisition for the stationery and blanks required to 
 be furnished by the contract by the act of the Legisla- 
 ture of 1883. John T. Van Cleef, Secretary State Board 
 of Assessors." Marked " Exhibit 215." 
 
 39 BH 
 
610 J. BROGNARD BETTS. 
 
 Also voucher 2,359, State of New Jersey to John T.. 
 Van Cleef, for sundry items in June, 1889, among which 
 is the following : " Mounting 50 maps, $17,50." Marked 
 " Exhibit 216." 
 
 Also bill 2,645, dated July, 1889, State Board of 
 Assessors, to John L. Murphy Publishing Company, 
 sundry items, among which is the following: "May 6, 
 mounting 208 maps of N. J., $72.80," with the same 
 certificate by the Secretary of the State Board of Assess- 
 ors. " Exhibit 217." 
 
 The total of these mounted maps is 703 maps, which 
 the State had mounted on rollers or in book form dur- 
 ing these years that I have mentioned. 
 
 Senator Skirm — At an aggregate cost of what? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The cost is 35 cents, 45 cents and' 55 
 cents, making probably two or three hundred dollars. 
 Q. I show you a mounted map. Is that the form of mounting 
 which was used for these maps ? ^. It is ; that is, for the roller 
 maps, and of course the other was in a book form, folded. 
 Q. One form folding into a little pocket-book ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Four by ten — something like that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Roller map referred to is offered in evidence and 
 marked "Exhibit 219." 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Whence arose the demand for 
 these? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I suppose a good many people would 
 like a mounted map ; but I have some evidence on that. 
 
 I wish to call the attention of the Committee to the 
 sale of some of these mounted maps to different State 
 officers, which were paid tor by the State. There is u 
 voucher in the regular printed reports : December 30, 
 1887, 12 maps to the Secretary ot State, at $8.50 apiece, 
 $42 ; January 13, 1888, tive to the Sinking Fund Com- 
 missioners, $3.50iapiece, $17.50 ; February, 1888, five to 
 the Attorney-General, at $3.50, $17.50 ; same date, 
 fifteen to the State Treasurer, at the same price, $52.50; 
 May, 1888, fifteen to the State Treasurer, at $3, $45 ; 
 Derember, 1888, seventeen to the Comptroller, at $3, 
 $51. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Who was Treasurer and Comptroller 
 for those years ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would have to look in the reports ; I 
 don't know that it is important. 
 
J. BROGNAED BETTS. 61 1 
 
 Q. Mr. Betts, these mounted maps, that is, maps mounted sim- 
 ilarly to this, were sold by you and Mr. Van Cleef ? A. They 
 were. 
 
 Q. To the lawyers and others ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And $3 and $3.50 was the price charged? A. First $3.50 ; 
 then we reduced it to |B, and later to $2. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do T understand that that map is a 
 sample which they charged $3.50 for ? 
 Mr. Corbin — That is correct. 
 
 Witness — Yes, sir ; that could be got from anybody, 
 lawyers and all. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I only wanted to know whether the 
 State paid that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The list of these maps amount to sixty- 
 nine maps and cost $225.50. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Why did the Sinking Fund 
 Commissioners want railroad maps? 
 
 Senator Skirm — You might ask why the Treasurer 
 and Comptroller would want so many maps at that price. 
 Chairman Voorheee — Yes, I suppose I might. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Do you know why those depart- 
 ments wanted those maps? A. No. 
 
 Q. Who sold them to them? A. That I don't know ; some 
 one — I sold some myself and the Colonel might have sold some. 
 Q. When this first edition of maps was printed, did you see 
 them? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did they come here to Trenton? A. Some of them, and 
 some went to Somerville; that is, I don't mean — we had some 
 extra ones printed and had them mounted for private use. 
 
 Q. Are you sure that there were ever any extra ones printed in 
 
 addition to the first order of six thousand copies? A. Well, I 
 
 can only give you my impression, as I did before, that there were. 
 
 Q. Can you give any impression as to how many ? A. No, I 
 
 haven't the remotest idea. 
 
 Q. You didn't personally follow up the details of it, did you ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have made a tabulation, which I will 
 present to the Committee, of the cost of these maps to 
 the State. 
 
 In 1887 Sinnicksoa Chew printed the State Board of 
 Assessors' report, by contract, and furnished this map 
 without contract, so far as I am able to ascertain, six 
 thousand maps at a cost of $1,500; in 1888 there is also 
 an item in his bill for printing the report, with blank 
 
612 J BEOGNAED BBTTS. 
 
 number of maps, $1,125 ; and if it was at the same price 
 it would be forty-five hundred maps. I assume it was 
 that price, 25 cents apiece, because I see that price pre- 
 vails during the previous and some other years. 
 
 In 1889 John L. Murphy printed the State Board of 
 Assessors' report, and added to his bill six thousand of 
 these maps, $1,800. In 1890 MacCrellish & Quigley 
 printed the State Board of Assessors' report, and added 
 to their bill six thousand maps at $1,500. In 1891 John 
 L. Murphy Printing Company printed the report, and 
 added to their bill six thousand maps at $1,540. In 
 1892 MacCrellish & Quigley printed three thousand 
 copies of the report, and added to their bill six thousand 
 maps at $1,500. In 1893 John L. Murphy Publishing 
 Company printed three thousand copies of the report, 
 and added to their bill three thousand copies of the 
 map at a cost of $750. In 1894 MacCrellish & Quigley 
 printed twenty-five hundred copies of the report, and 
 added to their bill thirty-five hundred copies of the map 
 at a cost of $700. 
 
 The total number of reports of that board printed 
 within those years is 38,500 ; the total number of maps 
 paid for during those years is 41,000, assuming that the 
 number in 1888 was 4,500, as above stated. The total 
 cost of those maps to the State, paid to the publishers 
 thus far, is $10,415. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Paid by the State to the publishers 
 for these maps ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes; I will produce evidence with re- 
 spect to that. The State has paid for mounting on 
 rollers and in books $755.96 — mounting in various ways. 
 That, I think, must include certain other items too; 703 
 maps do not amount to that; it amounts to about $300, 
 but there are other items chargeable to the maps, bring- 
 ing it up to $755.96 ; the State paid for the mounted 
 maps, sixty-nine of them, $225.50, making the gross 
 total of the cost of this map to the State, so far as I am 
 able to ascertain, $11,396.46. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That is a pretty valuable copy- 
 right. 
 
 Not very, no. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I wish to make one further comment by 
 permission of the Committee at this point. By the 
 evidence which we produced here a few weeks ago it 
 
SINNICKSON CHEW. 613 
 
 appears there are iu the vaults of the State House of 
 these diiSerent years, still undisturbed, 18,500 of the re- 
 ports ; these maps are not attached to the reports. This 
 number, 18,500 of reports, is exclusive of those on hand 
 in the vaults of the Board, both bound and unbound, 
 which I estimate at four thousand; that may of course 
 be inaccurate, but if my estimate is correct there are 
 22,500 copies of the State Board of Assessors report on 
 hand for the years 1885 to 1894, against 16,000 which 
 have been circulated. As to the maps, I have no data 
 from which to estimate how many have been circulated. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Why was the amount cut down in 
 1894? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I believe the Joint Committee on Print- 
 ing cut down this, as well as sundry other items ; I 
 think they cut down the number to be printed; it was 
 found that the number of the reports printed was larger 
 than the demand. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — During the session of the com- 
 mittee, last year, they were just learning of this extrav- 
 agance, and cut it down to a considerable extent. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I summoned Mr. John L. Murphy and 
 his foreman, Mr. Furman ; and Mr. Furman has written 
 me a letter to the effect that he is confined to his house 
 by illness, and asks that he might be excused. I made 
 no response to it, for I didn't see the messenger. Mr. 
 Murphy has sent his books here, and I supposed was to 
 be here, but he is not. 
 
 SiNNiCKSON Chew, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You reside in Camden ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You are a printer ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you print the State Board of Assessors' Report for 
 1887? A. I believe I did ; it is my imprint, isn't it ? Yes, that 
 is mine. 
 
 Q. I show you voucher No. 4,013, October, 1887, being bill of 
 Sinnickson Chew to the State of New Jersey, and direct your 
 attention especially to the portion concerning the report of the 
 State Board of Assessors. What is the total amount of your bill 
 for that report ? ^. |3,016,71. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Will the Sergeant-at-Arms 
 kindly ascertain where Mr. Murphy is ? Has he been 
 subpoenaed ? 
 
614 SIXNICKSON CHEW. 
 
 Mr. CorbiD — Yea, air; the writ was served on the 
 22d of April, at Trenton. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Sergeant-at-Arms is di- 
 rected to find out where Mr. Murphy is. 
 
 Q. Of this sum I observe that $1,500 is for furnishing 6,000 
 maps? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the maps actually pass through your hands ? A. They 
 passed from the maker of the maps — I think Heppenheimer & 
 Sons made the maps, I think that was the firm's name — I don't 
 know whether they passed through my hands or went to the 
 binder of the book. 
 
 Q. You say they did pass through your hands? A. No, I 
 don't know as they did exactly pass through my hands, 
 
 Q. They went from whom ? A. They went from Heppen- 
 heimer & Sons, the maker of the maps, to the binder of the books. 
 
 Q. What evidence have you in your possession of that? A. 
 None. 
 
 Q. When you made out your bill for $1,500 for the maps, 
 what did you have before you from which .to make it? A. 1 
 suppose I had the bill from Mr. Van Cleef ; Mr. Van Cleef, by 
 the way, can give a more intelligent answer with reference to 
 those maps than I can, 
 
 Q. Your contract required you to print the report ? A. Yea, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And that cost $1,516.71. Now, who told you to add to 
 that without any contract, six thousand maps at $1,500? A. I 
 think I got that authority from the State Board of Assessors. 
 
 Q. That is, through Mr. Van Cleef ? A . Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you any letter from them? A. No, sir; I don't 
 think I have. 
 
 Q. Who, if anybody, rendered you a bill for $1,500 for maps, 
 that is, for the report of 1887? A. I suppose Mr. Van Cleef, 
 because I sent him my check. 
 
 Q. Have you got that bill? A. No, sir, I haven't; I had a 
 fire in my place in June. 
 
 Q. You didn't pay Heppenheimer & Sons for the maps? A. 
 I paid Heppenheimer & Sons; I got a memorandum there in my 
 stub — one of my check books — having paid Heppenheimer & 
 Sons $1,500. 
 
 Q. Now, have you got this transaction upon your books ? A. 
 Nothing more than you have in that bill there. 
 
 Q. Let us see your books ; you were summoned to bring them. 
 A. I thought you had all the evidence in the bills and I didn't 
 bring the books, but I will telegraph tor them if you wish them. 
 
SINNICKSON CHEW. 615 
 
 Q. Your eummons, Mr. Chew, is this : " To bring with you 
 your order book, sales books, day books, journals and cash books 
 and ledgers lor the years 1887, 1888 and 1889 ; also your check 
 book and stub books and bank books and checks for the same 
 years showing your dealings with the banks at Camden ; and 
 also the invoices and bills given to you for maps purchased by 
 you and furnished by you to the State in 1887 and 1888, and the 
 checks by which you paid for such maps." Now, did you bring 
 those ? A. No, sir, I couldn't find them ; I didn't bring my big 
 books for the reason that these are transcripts from the books, 
 these bills on file in the Comptroller's office ; I made an arrange- 
 ment if you wanted them to telegraph for them and have them 
 here. 
 
 Q. And further than that, I sent a man to Camden at some 
 expense to serve this paper on you ? A. And he gave me some 
 money to come up ; I don't want the money — It didn't cost me 
 anything to come here. 
 
 Q. You are entitled to that by law. A. I am not sure, though 
 it didn't cost me anything to get here. 
 
 Q. Now, you say this bill is a transcript of your books? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, this bill has simply this item, without date, " Furnish- 
 ing 6,000 maps, $1,500"? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. No date ? A. No. 
 
 Q. Now, where did you get that item from to put it in your 
 book ? A. That was the maps — those are the number of maps 
 that were ordered for the books. 
 
 Q. You didn't order any ? A. Yes, I ordered the maps. 
 
 Q. You ordered 6,000 maps ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who from ? A. From Heppenheimer & Sons. 
 
 Q. Are you not mistaken about that? A. I think I am not; 
 I may be, because that is ancient history. 
 
 Q. I asked you to bring your checks by which you paid for 
 these maps; have you done that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Let me see the checki '2 A. 1 have got a stub book, and 
 some of the checks I couldn't find. 
 
 Q. The only check I want is the one which paid for these six 
 thousand maps? A. Well, I don't know whether I have got 
 that ; I have got a stub from the check book, but it don't saj 
 six thousand maps; it says "paid Mr. Van Cleef for maps." 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — What does the sergeant-at-arms 
 report as to Mr. Murphy ? 
 
 Sergeant-at-Arms Gresham — The Sergeant-at-Arms 
 
616 SINNICKSON CHEW. 
 
 reports that Mr. Murphy has goae to Philadelphia oa 
 the 11:10 train. 
 
 Witness — " Paid Heppenheimer & Sons, for maps,, 
 $575." 
 
 Q. What is the date of that? A. September 9th, 1890. 
 
 Q. ITow, I asked you to bring me the check which paid for 
 the six thousand maps in your bill to the State in October, 
 1887. This is three years too late. A. Yes, sir ; hold on — that 
 is one ; I have got more here. Here is one of June 1st, 1888, 
 John T. Van Cleef, for maps, $1,012.50. 
 
 Q. Now see if you can find one earlier than that? A. I don't 
 think I can. 
 
 Q. Well, perhaps that is early enough. Your bill for maps 
 furnished in 1887 was |1,500. In the following June you paid 
 Mr. Van Cleef tor maps, $1,012 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that all that you paid him ? A. 1 think not ; no, I paid 
 him on the 22d of June, 1887, $350 for maps. 
 
 Q. And June 1st, 1888, $1,012? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Wasn't there another entry in 1887 ? 
 A. Yes, sir; ITovember Ist, 1887, John T. Van Cleef, for maps 
 in full, $500. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — So those two payments of $350 and 
 $500 payments was for maps furnished in 1887? A. (l^o answer.) 
 
 Q. Now, let me sec those two entries. We are getting them 
 out of their order. Is this check of June 22d, 1887, for $350, the 
 first one paid by you for maps ? A. 1 don't know, sir ; I can't 
 say ; I don't know. 
 
 Q. How much did you pay him for those six thousand maps ? 
 A. I can't tell you now; that bill ought to tell. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact, did you not pay him $1,500, less a 
 commission to yourself? A. They allow me in the trade — the 
 trade discount is 10 per cent. 
 
 Q. You paid him, then, really, first and last, $1,500, less 10 
 per cent, or less $150 ? A. Yes, sir ; I suppose so. 
 
 Q. That would have been the correct payment ? A. Yes, sir; 
 all the work I ever did for the State I did on a square basis. 
 
 Q. We are not questioning it at all. Have you gone through 
 this stub book to see where the other payment was ? ^. I did, 
 and my boys did, but I don't think they found it; if they had 
 they would have marked it. 
 
 Q. Have you the checks here which paid these two sums ? A. 
 No; I can't find all of them ; one check I couldn't find in my 
 book ; these checks — some of them are lost, I suppose. 
 
8INNICKS0N CHEW. 617 
 
 Q. I show you the State's check to your order, dated Jaly 
 26th, 1887, for $500; is that your endorsement on the back? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you endorsed that over Mr. Van Cleef, did you not ? 
 A. I suppose so. 
 
 Q. And he endorsed it below? ^. I suppose that is so. 
 Q. Is there any doubt about it ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Then that is the additional $500, is it not, which you paid 
 for the year 1887? A. Yes, sir; I suppose so. 
 
 Check offered in evidence, with the accompanying 
 warrant, and marked " Exhibit 219." 
 Q. Do you still think that the maps for the year 1887 were 
 bought from Heppenheimer & Sons ? Yes, sir ; in IsTew York, 
 near the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge. 
 
 Q. Then, why did you pay Van Cleef for the maps which 
 Heppenheimer furnished? A. I don't know why I did it; I 
 can't tell ; it has been too long since. 
 
 Q. Did Heppenheimer furnish a bill to you ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 $575. 
 
 Q. Well, that was in 1890. Must that not have been another 
 ' subject? A. I don't think Mr. Heppenheimer ever made bills 
 for me but once. 
 
 Q. What was that for? A. Maps. 
 
 Q. Aren't you mistaken in bringing Mr. Heppenheimer's ac- 
 count into this after 1887 ? A. Well, perhaps I am. 
 
 Q. Have you two checks which correspond with these two 
 stubs in 1887 which you have shown 1 A. 1 don't think I have ; 
 I don't think we could find them. 
 
 Q. What is that package of checks which you have in your 
 hand? A. These are checks for 1887. Can you tell me number 
 of that check ? 
 
 Q. The first check is 887 ? A. Yes, there it is. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence check of Sinnickson 
 Chew to the order of John T. Van Cleef, $350, dated 
 June 22, 1887, drawn upon the First I^ational Bank of 
 Camden, endorsed John T. Van Cleef. Marked " Ex- 
 hibit 220." 
 Q. Now look for check 989. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I also offer in evidence this check No. 
 989, dated September 1, 1887, drawn by Sinnickson' 
 Chew on the First National Bank of Camden to the or- 
 der of John T. Van Cleef, for $500. Marked « Ex- 
 hibit 221.'! 
 
618 SINNICKSON CHEW. 
 
 I also call the attention of the Committee to the stubs 
 produced by the witness corresponding with the checks, 
 which I will read. " 887; June 22, 1887, John T. Van 
 Cleef, for map, $350." " 989; ^Tovember 1, 1887, check 
 dated September 1, (but the stub has been changed to 
 November 1 — evidently an error in drawing the check) 
 November 1, 1887, John T. Van Cleef, maps in full, 
 $500." 
 
 I offer in evidence the stub book, which will be 
 marked " Exhibit 222." 
 Q. You also printed the report of the State Board of Assessors 
 in the year 1888, did you not? A. I don't know whether I did 
 or not. 
 
 Q. Look at the copy of the report which I show you. A. No, 
 sir ; this is Murphy's; it is Murphy's imprint. 
 
 Q. The printing in 1887 may have been the report of 1886, 
 that is the way of it? A. That is the point of it. 
 
 Q. I show you voucher No. 2870, July, 1888, being your bill 
 for doing certain contract printing. Please look at the first page 
 of it, which is the portion relative to the State Board of Asses- 
 sors' report. What is the entire amount of your bill that year 
 for printing that report? A. $2,795.73. 
 
 Q. That includes, does it not, $1,125 for printing maps? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How many maps did you furnish for $1,125 1 A. 1 don't 
 remember. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you put it on your bill? A. I don't know 
 that ; it ought to have been on the bill; this is made out by my 
 young man, and I don't know why he didn't put it on the bill; 
 if I had been asked I should have said the number was there. 
 Q. What is that made out from? A. From my books. 
 Q. Well, who made the entry on the book? A. I suppose the 
 same young man that made the bill out. 
 
 Q. That was this same railroad map, was it? A.l suppose so. 
 Q. As a matter of fact, the maps didn't pass through your 
 hands, did they? A. No; they went from the maker to the 
 binder. 
 
 Q. Who was the maker of them? A. I don't know now. 
 Q. You paid Mr. Van Cleef that year again, didn't you ? A. 
 I paid all the demands against me. 
 
 Bill offered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 223." 
 Witness — Mr. Van Cleef ought to be able to answer 
 all these questions intelligently ; he got the money and 
 
8INNICKS0N CHEW. 619 
 
 ought to know more about it than I do, because I didn't 
 charge my memory with it. 
 
 Q. I show you the stub book which you have produced. What 
 bank is this stub book on ? A. That is the ISTational State Bank, 
 sir, of Camden. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to the stub of check 1,196, dated June 
 1, 1888, John T. Van Cleef for maps, |1,012.50 ? A. I don't be- 
 lieve I have got that. 
 
 Q. That check is for $1,125, less 10 per cent., isn't it? A. I 
 should judge so. 
 
 Q. Who asked vou to furnish the maps that year? A. That 
 I don't know now, it has been so long ago, but I got my author- 
 ity from somebody that I thought had a right to give it. 
 
 Q. They weren't in your contract, were they ? A. ISTo, I think 
 not ; however, the contract is the best evidence of that question. 
 
 Q. Do you know who printed the maps that year ? A. 'No, I 
 don't know as I do. 
 
 Q. And as a matter ot" fact, you rendered your bill upon the 
 information obtained from the State Board of Assessors, from the 
 clerk did you not? A. I believe so; I couldn't say positively. 
 
 Q. And the maps went straight from the maker of them, who- 
 ever it was, direct to the binder ? A. To the binder, if I remem- 
 ber right ; there were some maps that were not bound up. 
 
 Q. Did you ever see any of these maps, yourself; any of them ? 
 A. Oh, yes; I saw some. 
 
 Q. Where? A. Somebody gave me a few. 
 
 Q. But you got them here, at the Capitol? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But they never passed through your office? A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. And when the bill was rendered by Mr. Van Cleef you 
 paid it, less 10 per cent.? A. Of course. 
 
 Q. And for putting it upon your bill and doing it in the way 
 you did you had the 10 per cent. ? A. Yes, sir ; I understood 
 that was customary ; they told me that was customary. 
 
 Q. You referred to your contract for printing. I show you 
 contract with the State, dated 15th of November, 1887. That is 
 what you referred to, was it not? A. Yes, sir; that is what I 
 referred to. 
 
 Q. It is the contract for printing certain State reports? A. 
 Six thousand copies ot the State Board of Assessors. 
 
 Contract offered in evidence and marked "Exhibit 
 224." 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Who received any authority to 
 purchase these maps ? 
 
620 SINNICKSON CHEW. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The only authority that I have fouud is 
 what I have read from the State Board of Assessors 
 Report. They reported each year that they had re- 
 adopted this map, and said in some of the years that it 
 would accompany their report; there may be resolu- 
 tions upon their books ; I haven't got so far as to inquire 
 about that. 
 
 Chairman Voorheee — Is a resolution of that charac- 
 ter, even if it were formally passed, of any binding 
 effect upon the State ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I wouldn't like to answer that without 
 looking at the Board of Assessors' act. They have 
 power to incur certain expenses ; I haven't looked into 
 it with a view to the legal authority for ordering work ; 
 it is in the laws of 1884 and 1888. 
 
 Witness — The printer simply takes the copy that is 
 furnished him and does as he is instructed. 
 
 Seoator Skirm — I suppose there must have been some 
 authority for this, or otherwise the Comptroller would 
 certainly have never ordered the bill paid. 
 Mr. Corbin — I assume that is so. 
 Chairman Voorhees — Then why should it be put 
 through in this way ? 
 
 Senator Skirm — It should be advertised the same as 
 anything else. 
 
 Chairman Voorheee — Certainly; that is where the 
 wrong comes in, in my way of thinking. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think the State Board of Assessors' 
 act for taxing railroad and canal property may contain 
 the authority, if there is any authority. 
 
 I ofier in evidence this second stub book produced by 
 
 the witness on the State National Bank, of Camden, 
 
 which will be marked " Exhibit 225." 
 
 Q. Did you ever print a third number of the State Board of 
 
 Assessors' report? A. I don't think I did; I think I printed 
 
 only two years, but, as I said awhile ago, it has been so long — I 
 
 think they underbid me and took it away from me. 
 
 Q. What books have you in which this transaction will appear — 
 I mean this transaction of the maps? A. The booKs from which 
 those books were made. 
 
 Q. What book? A. Ledger. 
 
 Q. Nothing else but the ledger ? A. No, sir ; I don't know ; 
 I didn't overhaul my day book, because these bills were made 
 
SINNICKSON CHEW. 621 
 
 right out of the ledger — just a transcript of my ledger, the bills 
 are. 
 
 Q. Can you not remember what you had before you from 
 which to make up those charges upon your books ? A. No, sir ; 
 I don't remember anything about it. 
 
 Q. How did. you arrive at the price at which you were to 
 charge the maps ? J.. I can't tell you now, it has been so long 
 ago. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — How would you do it now if you 
 were to have such a bill ; how would you do it? A. 1 would 
 find out what the maps were going to cost, and then do it in 
 that way. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then you would charge it on your 
 book and pass it from your day book to your ledger ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Wasn't these bills made up so much 
 for the contract, and then when you rendered your bill so many 
 maps at so much money? A. Yes, sir; this is ancient history 
 for me. 
 
 Q. Whether the maps were actually delivered to the State or 
 not you wouldn't verify ? A, No, I don't think there is any 
 doubt about it. 
 
 Q. But you have no means of verifying that fact ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Nor had you then ? A. 1 suppose I could have. 
 Q. But you did not? A. No. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Now, I want to know, then, how you 
 knew that these maps were delivered, and how many to put on 
 your bill ? A. Mr. Van Cleef furnished me the bill. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence the bill of Mr. Chew, 
 
 dated October 28th, 1887, to the State of New Jersey, 
 
 being Comptroller's voucher No. 4013, the same to be 
 
 marked " Exhibit 226." 
 
 Q. I would like to have seen your books in which this map 
 
 charge is entered, but it is for the Committee to say. A. If you 
 
 want them I can telegraph for them and have them brought up, 
 
 but they won't give you any further light than that bill which I 
 
 filed with the Comptroller. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees^I have no doubt Mr. Chew ie 
 willing to aid the Committee in any way he can. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't like to bother Mr. Chew; but I 
 was so particular to subpoena him to bring all these 
 books — we will let it stand for the present, and if we 
 want them I will let you know. Will you please refer 
 
622 SINNICKSON CHEW. 
 
 again to the check made by you to Heppenheimer which 
 you think refers to this subject. 
 
 Chairman Yoorhees — I can't find anything in the act 
 of 1888 giving them authority to do that. I find at the 
 end of Section 2 this expression, " They shall keep a 
 record of their proceedings and shall annually report to 
 the Legislature." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I suppose the theory of it is that it is 
 transmitted as part of their report ; the printing of it, 
 however, is a different matter. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I should suppose the fault there would 
 be with the Comptroller in auditing such bills to be paid 
 without any legislative authority to do so. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I am unwilling to characterize the legal 
 authority of it or to speak of it, because I haven't looked 
 it up with that view. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The mere fact of this mode of 
 doing it ib sufficient to characterize it. Have you the 
 original proposals for the publication of anyone of these 
 annual reports? 
 
 Mr. Corbin— No, sir; I can get them, though. 
 Chairman Voorhees — I wish you would ; I would like 
 to see whether in that is included the publication of 
 this map. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Touching the point which you have just 
 mentioned with regard to the proposals, this contract 
 which I have just offered in evidence between Mr. Chew 
 and the State for the year 1887 contains a printed copy 
 of the specifications for the printing for that year; I 
 think you will find no reference to the map there ; I 
 was unable to find any. 
 Q. I show you now the stub book which you produced of the 
 National State Bank of Camden, and draw your attention again 
 to the stub which you showed, being stub No. 1414, September 
 9th, 1890, to Heppenheimer & Sons, $575. What bearing, if any, 
 has that upon this present inquiry relative to the maps? A. 
 That is what I paid Mr. Heppenheimer & Sons direct. 
 Q. For what? A. For the maps. 
 Q. Some of these same maps ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. 'Well, accompanying the State Board of Assessors' Report? 
 A. Yes, sir ; he only made one set of maps. 
 
 Q. Did you ever print the report a third time ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Well, then, why did you, in 1890, when you were not 
 
SINNICKSON CHEW. 623 
 
 printing the report, buy these maps from Heppenheimer ? A. I 
 don't know about that. 
 
 Q. May not that check refer to something else? A. JSTo, sir; 
 I don't think I ever had any transaction with him except for the 
 maps; I don't remember of having. 
 
 Q. And was it this railroad map ? A. That is my understand- 
 ing ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the map come to your place of business? A. No, sir ; 
 it went in with the report. 
 
 Q. Who asked you to get maps from Heppenheimer? A. I 
 was directed to have the maps made. 
 
 Q. By whom ? A. I think Mr. Van Cleef recommended me 
 to them. 
 
 Q. And after you had these maps made by Heppenheimer 
 what did you do with them ? A. They went into the report, I 
 suppose. 
 
 Q. But I think it appears that you didn't print any report that 
 year. A. That would be 1889 report? 
 
 Q. Yes. The report for the year 1888, printed in 1889, bears 
 the imprint of the John L. Murphy Publishing Company; the 
 report for 1889, printed in 1890, bears the imprint of MacCrellish 
 & Quigley. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — For the year 1887 bears the 
 imprint of S. Chew. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — But we have accounted for all that. 
 
 A. Now, perhaps it would be just as well for me to go over to 
 Heppenheimer's and ask them about that and see if they can tell 
 me anything about that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would prefer to have your memory on 
 it, if you can remember it. 
 
 Witness — I can't find the check, I think. 
 
 Q. Wasn't that for some other lithographing work? A. I 
 don't think they ever did any other work for me. 
 
 Q. You say that Van Cleef directed you to Heppenheimer to 
 get the work done ? A. Yes, sir ; I think there was — they had 
 the work done somewhere else, and it wasn't satisfactory, as I 
 understood. 
 
 Q. Now, if it is so that in 1890 you got those maps printed by 
 Heppenheimer for the State, it would appear somewhere in your 
 books, wouldn't it? A. I suppose so; I don't know. 
 
 Q. Is there any doubt — but if you had worked for the State 
 you would have entered it on the books ? A. Yes ; don't it show 
 anywhere in those books? 
 
624 SINNICKSON CHEW. 
 
 Q. But you haven't brought your books. A. I mean bills ; I 
 will bring them ; I don't think my books will throw any light 
 outside of my bills. 
 
 Q. Can you, by reference to these stub books, tell us anything 
 more ? A. Because, as I told you, it is ancient history with me. 
 Q. I suppose you paid promptly, the same year that you got 
 that, didn't you ? A. 1 don't remember about that. 
 
 Q. But you do pay promptly ? A. Well, I aim to always pay 
 when I have the money ; that is my business, to pay my debts. 
 
 Q. You would scarcely have let that go over from 1888 to 
 1890, would you? J.. No; I don't think I would. 
 
 Q. Well, I think we will have to see your books about that? 
 A. All right, sir. Do you want thera to-day? 
 
 Q. Well, let UB inquire a little further about it. Did those 
 maps which Heppenheimer made ever come under your personal 
 inapection? A. ISTo, sir; they followed the course of the others. 
 Q. That is, went direct to the man — A. The man who 
 bound, or to the State Board of Assessors; some of them wasn't 
 put in. 
 
 Q. You say Van Cleef directed you to Heppenheimer to have 
 the work done ? ^. I think he recommended him. 
 Q. Did you then go to Heppenheimer ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Where? A. ISTew York; I don't remember his place; it 
 is near the Brooklyn bridge. 
 
 Q. Did you take the map with you? A. I think not; I don't 
 remember anything about that. 
 
 Q. Who gave Heppenheimer the map to work from? A. I 
 think Mr. Van Cleef did. However, Mr. "Van Cleef can answer 
 that question better than I can. 
 
 Q. Was Mr. Van Cleef with you ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Was that metal work, or work done upon a atone? A. I 
 give it up ; I don't know. 
 
 Q. What did you order? A. I ordered these maps, so many 
 copies. 
 
 Q. How many 1 A. 1 think it was six thousand ; I will not 
 be sure about that ; I won't be sure about anything, because it 
 has been so long ago and the whole thing has passed out of my 
 mind. 
 
 Q. It hasn't passed out of your books, has it? A. It ought 
 not to ; no, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I can't see on the face of it how this 
 could touch this subject, but I think Mr. Chew had bet- 
 ter produce the books. His memory seems to be quite 
 clear that it was for printing this State railroad map. 
 
ASHER E. LAMBERT. 625 
 
 Witness — Yes ; if I find it any diflerent I will let you 
 know, or come and bring the books. 
 Q. Better bring the books and let us talk it over together. 
 A. Yes. When shall I bring them? 
 
 Q. Can you fetch them up to-morrow ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The report of 1889 seems to have been 
 printed by the John L. Murphy Publishing Company. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Are the maps charged in that year ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. I will offer in evidence 
 voucher No. 415, of December, 1890, being the bill of 
 John L. Murphy Publishing Company to the State for 
 printing numerous reports, among others the report of 
 the State Board of Assessors, six thousand copies, which 
 cost $3,396.19. The last item in this bill is six thou- 
 sand maps, $1,800; marked "Exhibit 227." 
 
 Senator Skirm — That is an increased price for the 
 maps ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That would be 80 cents apiece ; yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Murphy isn't here as yet, nor yet his superin- 
 tendent, but he has sent me these books. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Who served the subpoena on 
 Mr. Murphy ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Lambert. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Let Mr. Lambert be sworn. 
 
 AsHER E. Lambeet, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I show you the subpoena directed to John L. Murphy and 
 W. T. Furman. Did you serve this ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When ? A. Yesterday afternoon. 
 
 Q. Where? A. At his residence. 
 
 Q. Where is that? A. On State street. 
 
 Q. And how did you serve it upon Mr. Murphy 2 A.l simply 
 handed it to him on his doorstep as he was going in the house. 
 
 Q. Personally ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you give him a witness fee ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much ? A. Fifty cents. 
 
 Q. Did you serve Mr. Furman a^so ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In the same manner? A. Yes, sir; at his residence in 
 Trenton. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Was he sick a-bed ? A. No, sir; he 
 came to the door; I stopped at the office and they told me he 
 had just left the office a few minutes before 1 arrived at his 
 house. 
 
 40 SH 
 
626 STATE BOARD OF ASSESSORS. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Murphy has left with me these- 
 three books. The first one is endorsed " State work, 
 J. L. M. P. Co.," and he has placed marks in the book, 
 the first of which is under the index entitled " Reports," 
 which is his bill for 1888 for 6,000 copies of the State 
 Board of Assessors' Report. The last item of the charge 
 is 6,000 maps, $1,800. It seems to be the account from 
 which the bill which I offered was transcribed. He has 
 also marked another page, 91, 6,000 copies of this Re- 
 port, 6,000 maps, |1,500; envelopes, |40. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The price was down that year, then ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir ; 25 cents apiece. Also he has 
 marked another page, 93, three thousand reports State 
 Board of Assessors; the whole bill is $1,340. I don't 
 see the maps that year ; I think they were in a separate 
 bill. That is all the marked places in that book. Mr. 
 Murphy has also left the stub of his check book. I am 
 unable to say what bank this is upon, as the stubs do 
 not show. He has turned down one or two pages to 
 draw our attention to them. One is check stub 3398, 
 March 2ist, 1889, J. T. Van Cleef for maps Railroad 
 Assessors, $1,620. That seems to be $1,800, less 10 
 per cent. Also another stub book is produced of the 
 Mechanics' Bank of Trenton, in which I find stub 4095y 
 March 5th, 1891, John T. Van Cleef, $1,350, in pencil, 
 " railroad maps." That would seem to be $1,500, less 
 10 per cent. I offer these books in evidence ; and I 
 may say to the Committee that they are by no means a 
 complete response to the summons which was served. 
 I asked for the checks, the books of account, and so on, 
 and yet they doubtless refer to the subject. 
 
 The book mentioned called " State "Work " is marked 
 " Exhibit 228," and the stub books marked " 229 
 and 230." 
 
 The report of 1889 bears the imprint of MacCrelliah 
 & Quigley. 
 
 I offer in evidence the contract dated November 21, 
 1889, between MacCrellish & Quigley and the Comp- 
 troller for printing State Reports, among others, six 
 thousand copies of the State Board of Assessors, and 
 the same will be marked "Exhibit 231." 
 
HOWELL QUIGLEY. 627 
 
 Howell Quigley, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin : 
 
 Q. You are one of the firm of MacCrellish & Qaigley ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you this contract, " Exhibit 231." You printed the 
 report of the State Board of Assessors under that contract? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you voucher ISTo. 2118 to the State, dated April, 
 1890, for this aud other printiug. What was your full bill for 
 printing the State Board of Assessors report that year? A. It 
 was that amount, less |1,500. 
 
 q. What is the total ? A. $3,296.16. 
 
 Q. Did the State pay that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much of that was for maps? A. |1,500. 
 
 Q. The last item of the bill is six thousand maps at 25 cents, 
 $1,500. Did you handle the maps ? A. ISTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, how came they then to be in your bill? A. We re- 
 ceived the order through Col. Van Cleef, the State Board of 
 Assessors' Secretary. We have their voucher that the maps were 
 returned to them, or that they received the maps, and on that 
 basis we put them in our bill. 
 
 Q. Just turn to your books and vouchers relative to this item ; 
 what is this book that you produce? A. Ledger No. 4. 
 
 Q. And the account is on what page ? A. 500. 
 
 §. Just read the item relative to maps? A. " Six thousand 
 maps, $1,500," and here is the credit. 
 
 Q. And on the other side you credit $1,500? A. Yes, sir; 
 that is the bill, and here is the receipt, and there is the check. 
 
 Q. You say here is the bill; what bill? A. Rendered to ub 
 for the maps. 
 
 Q. Rendered to you for the maps by whom ? A. John T. Van 
 Cleef. 
 
 q. I will read this bill. " Trenton, April 13, 1890. MacCrel- 
 lish & Quigley to John T. Van Cleef, to six thousand maps of 
 railroads of New Jersey, as compiled by authority of the State 
 Board of Assessors, to accompany the report of said Board for 
 the year 1889, at 25 cents, $1,500, less 10 per cent, coatractor's 
 commission, $150, net |1,350. Received payment. John T. Van 
 Cleef. Above maps received from MacCrellish & Quigley. John 
 T. Van Cleef, Secretary S. B. of A." The maps in that didn't 
 pass through your hands, did they ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And you took that receipt from the Secretary of the State 
 Board of Assessors ? A. That they had been received by them 
 from the copyrighters. 
 
628 HOWELL QUIGLEY. 
 
 Q. And a8 a warrant for making out your bill ? A. Yee, sir. 
 §. Have you ever seen the maps, as a matter of fact ? ^. I 
 have seen a great many of the maps — I don't know — 
 
 Q. That is, you have seen a great many railroad maps, but as 
 to the particular ones delivered for that bill, that you don't know 
 anything about ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you the check of which you spoke ; is this the 
 check by which you paid Mr. Van Cleef? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The check is numbered 908, dated April 15, 1890, drawn 
 by MacCrellish & Quigley to the order of John T. Van Cleef, for 
 |1,350, endorsed John T. Van Cleef. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer this book and this bill and check 
 in evidence, and ask that the ledger be marked " Ex- 
 hibit 232," and the bill which was read, "Exhibit 233," 
 and the check "234." 
 Q. Show me another of those in your cash book, if there is 
 any. A. Here it is, at page 258, Cash Book No. 5 ; State of New 
 Jersey, account of reports, $1,500. 
 
 q. Why did you retain $150 out of the $1,500 that year ? A. 
 Ten per cent, allowed us as contractor's commission. 
 
 Q. The maps were not included in that contract, were they ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who asked you to add that to your bill? A. The maps 
 were ordered through John T. Van Cleef. 
 
 Q. They were ordered by him ? ^. By him and through him. 
 Q. And you were asked to put them upon your book and take 
 out your commission and settle on that basis: was it not so ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirra — Allow me to ask, Mr. Quigley, then 
 you had no order for maps at all ? A. Yes ; we ordered 
 them of John T. Van Cleef. 
 Q. And he rendered the bill which you have shown ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And these orders, as Secretary of the Board, he receipted 
 for having been delivered ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And on the strength of that warrant you made the bill out ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence the check of the 
 
 State to the order of MacCrellish &. Quigley for $1,500, 
 
 dated June 21st, 1892, and endorsed by MacCrellish & 
 
 Quigley, and the same is marked " Exhibit 235." 
 
 Q. Is that the check by which these maps were paid for by the 
 
 State ? A. Yea, sir ; that is it. 
 
HOWELL QUIGLEY. 629 
 
 Q. Does your cash book show payment to Van Cleef ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. On what page ? A. 259. 
 
 q. Eead the entry. A. " Check 908, John T. Van Cleef, 
 $1,350, April 15, 1890." 
 
 Cash book offered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 
 236." 
 
 Q. Did you also, in the year 1892, print the report of the State 
 Board of Assessors for the year 1891 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Please show the account. What book is this? A. Same 
 ledger, 'Eo. 4. 
 
 Q,. What page ? A. 503. 
 
 Q. What was the total cost of printing the report? A, 
 A. $1,235.90. 
 
 Q. For how many copies ? A. Three thousand copies. 
 
 Q. The maps were not included that time in the bill for 
 printing the report, were they? A. No, sir. 
 
 §. I show you the State's voucher No. 2579, May, 1892, being 
 your bill rendered to the State for $1,235.90; that is for the 
 printing ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. That was paid ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Voucher offered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 
 237." 
 
 §. 1 show you a separate bill, being voucher ISTo. 2957, of 
 June, 1892, for six thousand copies of the map, $1,500; is that 
 the bill you rendered? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I draw your attention to the affidavit on the back of this 
 bill : " Howell Quigley, being duly sworn, says, that this account 
 is correct and just, and that the services were rendered and arti- 
 cles furnished as stated therein, as per receipt from Board of 
 Assessors. Howell Quigley." To what did that clause refer ? 
 A. It referred to this receipt. 
 
 Voucher just read offered in evidence and marked 
 "Exhibit 288." 
 
 Q. Yon have produced the receipt which I will read : " Tren- 
 ton, May 6th, 1892. Received of MacCrellish & Quigley, six 
 thousand maps of the railroads of New Jersey, edition of 1892, 
 for the report of the State Board of Assessors of 1891 and 1892. 
 John T. Van Cleef, Secretary State Board of Assessors." Did 
 those maps pass through your hands? A. No, sir; the same 
 process as before. 
 
 Q. You simply took that from him as your warrant for making 
 out your bill ? A. That he had received the maps ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But you verified it in no other way ? A. No, sir. 
 
630 HOWELL QUIGLEY. 
 
 Q. What is this second paper that you produce? A. That is 
 a letter from Van Cleef. 
 
 q. " Trenton, May 24th, 1892. MacCrellish & Quigley, Tren- 
 ton. Gentlemen: Enclosed find invoice for six thousand maps 
 railroads of New Jersey delivered to State Board of Aesessors in 
 compliance with your order dated May Ist, 1892. Also find 
 herewith receipt from State Board of Assessors for the maps as 
 delivered. John T. Van Cleef, for Van Cleef and Betts." The 
 receipt referred to is the one which I have already read which is 
 in this bill? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— "May 24th, 1892. MacCrellish & 
 Quigley to John T. Van Cleef, Dr., to six thousand 
 maps railroads of IST. J., 1892, for use State Board of 
 Assessors, $1,350. Received payment June 22d, 1892. 
 Van Cleef & Betts." 
 
 The witness produced a check of June 22d, 1892. 
 " Trenton Banking Company, pay to the order of Van 
 Cleef & Betts, $1,350. MacCrellish & Quigley. Endorsed 
 Van Cleef & Betts, John T. Van Cleef" 
 
 I offer in evidence letter of May 24tb, 1892, which is 
 marked " Exhibit 239 " ; also the bill enclosed there- 
 with, dated May 6th, 1892, marked "Exhibit 240"; 
 also the bill for six thousand maps, dated May 24tb, 
 1892, marked "Exhibit 241"; also the check of June 
 22d, 1892, $1,350, marked " Exhibit 242." 
 Q. Why were six thousand maps printed when only three 
 thousand copies of the report were printed in that year? A. I 
 think that was in the receipt, there ; they were for other years. 
 q. You mean ordered in advance? A. Let me see that; 1891 
 and 1892; for two years, according to that. 
 
 Q. Well, you have already provided six thousand for the year 
 before. You don't kuow anything about that, do you? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — These bills were made up from 
 information furnished you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is this transaction entered upon your cash book ? A. Yed, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. If so, upon what pages? ^4. Same book, cash book No. 7, 
 page 6, State of New Jersey, $1,500; and on page 7, Van Cleef & 
 Betts, $1,350. 
 
 Q. In 1894 did you print the State Board of Assessors' report 
 for 1893? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. Pleade refer to your books. First I show you your voucher, 
 
HOWELL QUIGLEV. 631 
 
 3)eing voucher 2620, of May, 1894, for $1,243. Is that your bill 
 for printing the reports ? A. The report proper ; yes, sir. 
 Q. How many copies? A. Twenty-five hundred. 
 Q. There were no maps included in that bill? A. No, sir. 
 Voucher offered in evidence and marked " 243." 
 Q. I show you also Comptroller's voucher 2740, July, 1894, 
 for 2,500 maps. Whose handwriting is that bill made out in? 
 A. John T. Van Cleef. 
 
 Q. And it is verified by your affidavit? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And I see that you added that year the same clause to your 
 affidavit, " as per receipt from the State Board of Assessors." 
 That you receipted ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Voucher oflered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 
 244." 
 Q. You produce a receipt: "Trenton, July 26th, 1894. 
 Received of MacCrellish & Quigley, 2,500 railroad maps of State 
 of New Jersey, to accompany annual report State Board of 
 Assessors, for 1893. Also 1,000 additional of the same for use 
 of said Board. John T. Van Cleef, Secretary State Board of 
 Assessors." You didn't actually handle them that year, did 
 you? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. It was as before ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Mr. Van Cleef gave you a warrant for rendering a bill? 
 A. Yes; there is the bill. 
 
 Q. This is his bill to you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. " July 30th, 1894. MacCrellish & Quigley to John T. Van 
 Cleef, debtor, to 3,500 maps, railroads of N. J., 1894 and 1895, 
 2,500 to accompany report of State Board of Assessors for 1893 
 and 1894, and 1,500 for use of State Board, at 20 cents, $700, 
 less 10 per cent., $70, $630. Received payment. John T. Van 
 Cleef." There is an evident error in the bill. The bill first says 
 3,500 maps, and they are charged as 3,500 at 20 cents apiece, but 
 in specifying what they are for the numbers are different — 2,500 
 to accompany report of State Board for 1893 and 1894, and 1,500 
 for use of the Board. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That should have been a thousand. 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir, that doubtless should have been 
 so. The receipt corrects it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand that the bill for the 
 preceding year — that there are 3,000 more maps than 
 there are reports ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have it here, sir. In the year 1892 
 there were 3,000 reports and 6,000 maps ; in the year 
 1893, 3,000 maps and 3,000 reports ; in the year 1894, 
 
632 BENJAMIN P. INGEAHAM. 
 
 which is this one, there were 2,500 reports and 3,500 
 maps. 
 
 Q. What is this check you produce ? Check for the bill 
 dated July 30th, 1894, MacCrellish & Quigley on the Trenton 
 Banking Company, to the order of John W. Van Cleef, for 
 $680, endorsed John W. Van Cleef, John T. Van Cleef. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence the receipt, bill and 
 check, and ask that they be marked respectively " 245," 
 " 246 " and " 247." 
 
 Q. Does this appear on your cash book ? A. Cash book 1^ 
 page 244. State of New Jersey, |700 ; page 245, John T. Van 
 Cleef, 1630. 
 
 Q. Did you ever see these maps or tally them up? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who first came to you to make this arrangement that the 
 maps should go upon your bill and 10 per cent, be taken off by 
 you ? A. Colonel Van Cleef. 
 
 Q. Did you know it before you bid ? 4. I think not the first 
 year ; after that it was always an inducement to bid low to get 
 that. 
 
 Q. So that that commission which you expected to get off of 
 the maps was one of the inducements for your making a low bid 
 on the reports ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What assurance did you have that you could count on that? 
 A. None. 
 
 Q. But you assumed that you could count on it ? A. Yes, sir; 
 took it as a precedent. 
 
 Q. Nothing in the specifications on which you bid to indicate 
 that ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether other bidders were informed of that? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. As a matter of fact, they all seem to have got it, did they 
 not? A. I presume so. 
 
 Benjamin F. Inqbaham, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Elizabeth, N. J. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Manager of the Thomas & 
 Wylie Lithographing Company. 
 
 Q. Look at the printed map, " Exhibit 218," which I show you. 
 Was that map printed by the house of which you are the man- 
 ager ? A. No ; that was printed by the house of H. A. Thomas 
 & Wylie ; it is now a corporation. 
 
 Q. Well, your house is the successor of that house, is it not ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
BENJAMIN F. INGRAHAM. 633 
 
 Q, It is the same business, conducted in the new corporate 
 form? 4."^Ye8, sir. 
 
 Q. "When did you become manager there ? In the spring of 
 1889. 
 
 Q. Is the stone from which this map was printed in the pos- 
 session of your company ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When did you go with that company ? A. In l^ovember, 
 1888. 
 
 Q. And have any maps ever been printed from that stone since 
 you went with that concern ? A. Not to my recollection. 
 
 Q. Have you made search of the company's books and records 
 to see whether they have ? A. Yes ; I gave that order yester- 
 day, and couldn't find it. 
 
 Q. You can find no record of any maps printed since 1888 ? 
 A. No, since the time this map was printed. 
 
 Q. How many were printed from this stone when this stone 
 was made? A. Six thousand. 
 
 Q. Were they all printed in one edition ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have any maps ever been printed since, so far as your 
 records show ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Vi^'ould you not be likely to know it or have a record of it 
 if there were any? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you " Exhibit 208," a paper copy. Look at that 
 and say if that is a copy of the same map, unmounted ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q, This paper copy is furnished me by the clerk of the State 
 Board of Assessors as the map which was given out with the 
 State Board of Assessors' Report for 1888 to 1890, for those 
 years. It is identified as being the same map, and clearly is so. 
 I show you "Exhibit 209," dated 1893 and 1894, being a some- 
 what smaller map. Did your concorn make that map? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Can you say whether that is a map made from a stone or 
 from metal? A. I believe it is made from metal; on stone it is 
 quite difierent. 
 
 Q. Can you, by examining it, say whether it is a photograph 
 copy of the other ? A. No ; I couldn't ; it probably was photo- 
 graphed originally. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do I understand this gentleman to 
 say that there were only 6,000 maps of the original printed, and 
 that the next map was issued in 1892, and that there were no 
 others printed. Is it possible, then, that these maps could have 
 been engraved on another stone, at another establishment? 
 A. Certainly. 
 
6.34 BENJAMIN r. INGEAHAM. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And they would have the same im- 
 print as you? A. ISTo; it wouldn't have our imprint — not likely 
 to have our imprint. 
 
 Q. What was the cost of the stone and this edition of 6,000 
 copies ot that map? A. The drawing and the edition was $650; 
 we don't sell the stone, — ^just the drawing. 
 
 Q. The entire work of getting out that edition? A. "Was $650. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. Then in case the other maps were prepared, would it not 
 cost the same amount of money in some other establishment to 
 have that stone cut in the same way ? A. \ should think so. 
 
 Q. Now the question is asked behind me here, whether if there 
 was only 6,000 printed and 6,000 used in one year, where were 
 the other maps secured between "1888 and 1892? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't suppose this witness is compe- 
 tent to show that. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Have you been able to show that? 
 Mr. Corbin — I tried to find out from Mr. Betts. 
 Senator Skirm — Well, he didn't know anything, ap- 
 parently, only what he wanted to know. But my ques- 
 tion is on the line of whether there was another map 
 that you have in your possession, or any copy that has 
 been printed by any other concern except this one, be- 
 tween 1888 and 1892 ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have no other, sir. 
 Q. Then, of course, it couldn't have been printed unless you 
 knew that it had been printed ? A. JSTot in our establishment. 
 
 Q. And if they were printed in any other establishment they 
 would have somebody else's imprint upon them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Senator Skirm — As I understand, the next map is 
 1892 and 1893? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The next map is the one that has no 
 imprint at all upon it indicating who made it. It is 
 marked " Copyrighted in 1892," but it bears the figures 
 on it, across the face of it, 1893 and 1894. I have 
 obtained all that I could obtain ; I have sent for copies 
 of all the maps that there were in the State Board o^ 
 Assessors' office, and these that I have produced are all 
 that have been returned to me. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Is there any evidence that when 
 these books went out from year to year that the map 
 went with them ? 
 
REVENUES OF THE SCHOOL FUND. 635 
 
 Mr. Corbin — ^o; they were not distributed in that 
 way; they were separate. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Isn't it the same old six thousand 
 right along? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't know. 
 
 Senator Skirm — You don't mean to charge Mr. Van 
 Cleef, or the State Board of Assessors, by any means, of 
 publishing 6,000 one year and continuing that on with- 
 out furnishing the maps? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't think that ought to be charged 
 until Mr. Van Cleef has been allowed an opportunity to 
 explain. If others were printed from this stone in addi- 
 tion to these 6,000, what would be a fair price for print- 
 ing such an edition, the stone being still in existence ? 
 
 Witness— Probably from $360 to |400 ; in that neigh- 
 borhood ; I wouldn't know what the original drawing 
 cost. 
 Recess. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I understand that there are witnesses 
 here who desire to return to-day who were summoned 
 from the southern part of the State and who cannot 
 return to-day unless they are examined soon. There- 
 fore, at the suggestion of some of the members of the 
 Committee, with your permission, I will suspend the 
 examination that we had in progress before recess and 
 take up this other matter. 
 
 The matter to which I wish to call attention is one 
 which involves certain revenues of the School Fund. 
 
 An act was passed in 1871, which will be found in 
 the Revision, page 140, for the better enforcement of 
 the laws regulating the oyster and clam fisheries in the 
 Delaware Bay and Maurice River Cove, and in that act 
 there were provisions of law which require, under cer- 
 tain conditions, the payment of a portion of the revenues 
 arising from the oyster fisheries into the State School 
 Fund. I am informed that no moneys have ever been 
 paid into the State Treasury for this fund for the use of 
 the Public School Fund. I will briefiy review the act 
 so that it may be understood by those who may not be 
 familiar with it on the Committee. 
 
 The first section, which is found on page 140, provides 
 for an assessment lipon the boats catching oysters in 
 those waters to be levied each year; the amount of the 
 
636 REVENUES OF THE SCHOOL FUND. 
 
 assessment to be regulated by the tonnage of the vessels, 
 and to go into an oyster fund, so-called. 
 
 By the second, third and fourth sections of the act it 
 is provided that there should be an officer, to be known 
 as the Special Officer of the Oyster Association, to en- 
 force this law. His duties are defined by the act, and 
 the expenses of his employment, and other expenses of 
 the association, are to be paid out of the fund, of which 
 careful accounts are to be kept. 
 
 Section fifth provides that there shall be an officer to 
 be known as the Collector of the Oyster Fund, with 
 power to assess and collect the tonnage fees, and to issue 
 licenses. He is to pay the salary of the special officer, 
 and is to take five per cent, of all sums collected for cer- 
 tain services. 
 
 Section six requires the Collector to give bonds, which 
 shall be recorded with the County Clerk of Cumberland 
 county, in the sum of two thousand dollars. He is to 
 record all licenses, to keep a record of his transactions 
 and of his receipts and disbursements, and is annually 
 to report to the association. The association is com- 
 posed of those who are engaged in the oyster fisheries in 
 those waters, and they meet annually now at Port Nor- 
 ris, and formerly at some other point, and elect their 
 executive committee and provide for the election of their 
 collector and special officer, and the voters in that asso- 
 ciation are those who are engaged in these fisheries. 
 
 Id 1873 a supplemental act was passed, which will be 
 found on page 142 of the Revision, which in the first 
 section changes the amount of the assessment, which 
 was originally 50 cents per ton of the tonnage of the 
 vessels. 
 
 Suctions six and seven make further regulations as to 
 the license fees to be paid, and in section eight, page 
 144, is the following provision : 
 
 " That whenever at the end of any year the sum arising 
 from the oyster fund, after all expenses are paid, shall 
 exceed the sum of two thousand dollars, it shall be the 
 duty of the collector of the said fund to pay the same 
 to the treasurer of the state of New Jersey, to be applied 
 to the school fund of said state ; the first payment to be 
 made to the said treasurer on the first Tuesday in March, 
 one thousand eight hundred and seventy-four." 
 
REVENUES OF THE SCHOOL FUND. 637 
 
 So that that act has been in force for twenty years, 
 and this would be the twenty-first year, when a payment 
 should be made into the treasury, if the revenues are suf- 
 ficient. As I haye said, nothing has ever been paid in. 
 
 By the act of 1875, page 144 of the Revision, section 
 56, it is provided that the annual meeting be on the 
 first Tuesday of March, at Port Norris. 
 
 By the act of 1877, the supplement to the Revision, 
 page 114, it is provided that the license fee may be in- 
 creased to a tax as high as two dollars per ton, and shall 
 not be less than 50 cents per ton. 
 
 By the act of 1882, supplement to the Revision, page 
 116, there are further regulations of the annual meet- 
 ing, the election of officers and the auditing committee, 
 and also relative to the amount of the assessment. The 
 secretary of the meeting shall keep a true record of the 
 annual meeting. 
 
 Section 12 of that same act provides that the auditing 
 committee shall fix the salary of the special ofiicer and 
 collector, superintend the expenditure of the money 
 and inspect the books and accounts of the special officer 
 and collector, audit the accounts of said officer and of 
 the special officer and collector, and shall not spend any 
 moneys except upon the written approval of the chair- 
 man of the auditing committee. It is provided that the 
 auditing committee shall make detailed and itemized 
 reports in writing of the meeting, the receipts and dis- 
 bursements, which shall be published in one or more 
 newspapers in Cumberland county. 
 
 In the 15th and 16th sections it is provided that the 
 special officer and collector shall turn over to their suc- 
 cessors all moneys, books, vouchers, &c., and the special 
 officer to be under bonds of $2,000. 
 
 In 1886 an act was passed, page 120, section 34, 
 authorizing the captains at their meetings to vote ap- 
 propriations for shelling the oyster beds. In 1886 the 
 same act, section 36, the titles of all these people were 
 fixed ; the officer called the Special Officer of the Oyster 
 Association, the collector is called the Collector of the 
 Oyster Fund, and the committee is called the Auditing 
 Committee of the Oyster Association. 
 
 In 1890, page 77, further regulations of the election ; 
 they are provided to be held from 10 to 3, at Port 
 Norris, with judges of election, &c., and then the man- 
 
638 REVENUES OF THE SCHOOL FUND. 
 
 agement of the concern is changed to an executive com- 
 mittee of five, to hold office one year, who have all the 
 powers of the former auditing committee ; they elect a 
 special officer and fix the amount of the annual tonnage 
 tax, and have power to divide the grounds into districts, 
 and power to patrol by steam or sail vessels the waters. 
 They have power to revoke licenses and condemn 
 vessels for violation of the act, one-half of the proceeds 
 of all condemnations to go to the School Fund. There 
 is a fine provided of a thousand dollars for certain 
 violations, one-half of which goes to the School Fund ; 
 in this same act are certain penalties provided, $200 for 
 failure to mark the grounds, of which half goes to the 
 School Fund ; $200 for failure to put the number upon 
 the vessel, of which one-half goes to the School Fund. 
 
 In 1893, the laws of that year, page 503, the State 
 Commission was created, which divides the State into 
 districts ; that does not supersede this association at all, 
 but I mention it as touching the same subject. 
 
 In the act of 1894, to which I wish to call the special 
 attention of the Committee, page 418, it is in the first 
 section provided that the executive committee shall 
 meet at Port Norris, on the first Saturday of every 
 month, to hear complaints and to audit bills and 
 accounts of the special officer, and any other persons 
 having charges against the association. 
 
 Second ; the collector shall not hereafter pay out any 
 funds unless the bill or account for the same shall have 
 first been presented, under oath, to the executive com- 
 mittee and approved and ordered paid by them. And 
 these latter sections I particularly wish to call to the 
 attention of the committee : " The executive committee 
 shall be entitled to receive as compensation for their 
 services not exceeding five dollars per day for each 
 member of the committee for each day which he shall 
 attend, and it shall be and they are hereby authorized 
 to expend the moneys of said association now in the 
 hands of the collector of said oyster fund, and such 
 moneys as may hereafter come to his hands, for such 
 purposes as will, in their judgment, promote the inter- 
 ests of the greater number of persons lawfully engaged 
 in catching, planting and growing of oysters in said 
 Delaware Bay and Maurice River Cove, provided that a 
 majority shall concur." 
 
BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 639 
 
 lu the fourth section, " JSTothing in this act contained 
 shall in any way invalidate any action heretofore had or 
 taken by any such executive committee in good faith ; 
 nor shall they, or the collector of said oyster fund, be 
 held accountable for or called upon to account for any 
 moneys heretofore expended by them or him for the 
 interest of said association, or of the majority thereof, 
 but all such expenditures of money are hereby validated, 
 provided that the accounts have been presented and 
 published." 
 
 Just what the purpose of that last act was, and why 
 the committee should apparently be relieved from the 
 duty to account for moneys in their hands is not clear to 
 me, but I think some light is thrown upon it by some of 
 the evidence which may be adduced and the examination 
 of some of the accounts. 
 
 Benjamin Campbell, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. "Where do you reside ? ^. I reside at Bivalve, 'E&w Jersey. 
 
 Q. Are you the collector of the Delaware Bay and Maurice 
 River Cove Oyster Association? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been collector ? Jl. T think about eleven 
 years. 
 
 Q. Who was secretary of the last annual meeting, held a few 
 weeks ago ? A. Charles McClain ; he was the secretary last year. 
 
 Q. Who was the secretary this year? A. Benjamin Roray. 
 
 Q. Who acted at the meeting you held in March last? A. I 
 think he did. 
 
 Q. Have you brought with you the books of the Association ? 
 A. Yes, I expect they are all here. 
 
 Q. Where are they t A. 1 haven't found them ; I had them 
 expressed this morning up here to the State House. 
 
 Q. Have you got your accounts as collector here? A. They 
 are in with them ; everything away back is here. 
 
 Q. Where did you express them from this morning ? A. From 
 Bivalve. 
 
 Q. They have not yet reached the State House, I suppose ? A. 
 I think not ; 1 haven't heard from them. 
 
 Q. Have you annually made out an account at the time of the 
 March meeting and laid it before the Association ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To whom did you hand that for audit? A. To the Execu- 
 tive Committee. 
 
 Q. And they then lay it before the meeting, do they ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
640 BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 
 
 Q. They really control your expenditures, as the matter is 
 now managed, do they not? A. Yes; I have nothing to do 
 with it — only my own personal accounts. 
 
 Q. Don't you hold the funds? A. Yes, I hold the funds, but 
 I don't have anything to say about it. 
 
 Q. Do you pay them out by check or in cash? A. In cash, 
 and sometimes check ; I Fiave to pay cash mostly. 
 
 Q. But you simply pay out what they order you to pay ? A. 
 Yes, sir._ 
 
 Q. On bills? A Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you keep vouchers ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you always kept vouchers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The annual report, after it is audited by the committee, is 
 published in the Cumberland papers, is it not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you the " Daily Pioneer," of Bridgeton, of March 
 26th, 1891 ; see if this is your annual report printed here on the 
 second page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Also the " Daily Pioneer," of March 29th, 1892; is that 
 your annual report printed on the second page? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Also the " Daily Pioneer," of March 28th, 1893 ; is that 
 your report on the second page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Also the "Bridgeton Evening ISTews," of March 24th, 1894; 
 is this your report upon the second page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And I also show you part of the " Pioneer," of March 22d, 
 1885 ; is this the report upon the last page ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who makes up that report ? A. Why, it comes from the 
 vouchers, I suppose, that I have. 
 
 Q. Who makes it up — who writes it up when the time for the 
 annual meeting comes ? A. Taken off from the book. 
 
 Q. Do you do it, or does the committee do it ? A. The com- 
 mittee does it ; that is, they have to present it to the meeting. 
 
 Q. You have never, in any of these reports, shown a balance 
 as great as two thousand on hand, have you ? A. Not that I 
 know of. 
 
 Q. And never, since you have been collector, have you paid 
 anything into the State School Fund, have you ? A. ISo, sir ; T 
 think, too, since I come to think — I can't tell, I don't know 
 how — I don't remember : my books shows it, you see. 
 
 Q. You don't remember whether you paid into the State 
 School Fund? A. I remember that I have not ; I know that. 
 
 Q. What is it you don't remember ? A. I don't remember 
 the exact surplus that was on hand; my books would show that. 
 
 Q. These accounts ought to agree with your books ? A. They 
 will, no doubt; I have my books to go by altogether and what- 
 
BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 641 
 
 ever they are, it is what has been, but I don't remember it in my 
 head. 
 
 Q. In this report of March, 1892, 1 see an item near the bot- 
 tom of the report, " balance in the Collector's hands last year, 
 |2,005," and right below it " Money reserved for Harris and Lee 
 case last year, $500 ; " those two sums appear to be added to the 
 amount of your receipts that year ; now those make $2,505 ; how 
 is it that there was nothing paid into the School Fund that year ? 
 A. Well, I can't tell you ; I remember that amount, but I can't 
 tell you why, because I — 
 
 Q. Those are made up by the committee, aren't they? A. 
 They are altogether in the committee's hands ; I have to work 
 under them. 
 
 Q. But I see by referring to a report of the then previous year, 
 which will be 1891, that the balance stated in your report here 
 was only $1,270 ; can you explain how it is stated there in 1891 
 to be $1,270, and here appears to be $2,500 and odd in 1892? 
 A. Well, I don't know that I can. 
 
 Q. Those reports in fact are made out for publication by the 
 committee, are they not ? A. They are taken off from the 
 books. 
 
 Q. By you or by them ? A. Well, they have the report to 
 make, yes sir ; they have it to read off. 
 
 Q. This appears to be the report of the Association itself ; it 
 doesn't appear to be your report. Can you explain how that 
 discrepency occurred ? A . Well, I can't tell you that unless I 
 have my books ; my books explain it exactly. 
 
 Q. You remember, you say, that there was $2,005 on hand 
 one year ? J.. I think there was. 
 
 Q. And $500 more, which was reserved for some special 
 purpose ? -4. I don't know anything about that ; probably the 
 committee knew about that, whoever they were. 
 
 Q. Was the money in your hands ? I will show you what I 
 am referring to (showing witness paper). A. No, sir ; it was not 
 in my hands. 
 
 Q. In whose hands was it ? A. Well, that I can't tell you; it 
 might have been the committee's hands. 
 
 Q. Who were the leading persons in the committee during 
 1891 and 1892 t A. 1 don't remember the names of any in 1891. 
 
 Q. These reports don't seem to be signed. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Did you actually prepare the 
 report, or was the report prepared by some one acting 
 for the committee ; was it your usual custom to prepare 
 
 41 SH 
 
642 BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 
 
 the reports yourself, or entrust the preparation of it to 
 some one else? 
 
 A. ISTo; I prepared it myself. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — "Wasn't it submitted to some one 
 else to put it in ship-shape? A. Yes; to the Executive Com- 
 mittee. 
 
 Q. I see here $115 in the report of March, 1892, " Received 
 percentage on lost money of last year." What was the lost 
 money of 1891; was it the failure of a bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, how much was lost? A. About $600, a little up- 
 wards. 
 
 Q. Who had that money at the time it was lost ? A. What 
 was the name of the bank ? 
 
 Q. In whose name did it stand in the bank ? J.. I think the 
 association's name — in my 
 
 Q. Well, be careful ; if you remember, whose name did that 
 money stand in on deposit in the bank; do you recollect? A. I 
 think in mine, collector of the Oyster Association. 
 
 Q. And it was lost by the failure of the bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the association allowed it to you as a loss? A. Yes. 
 
 Q. And when the bank afterwards paid that $115 dividend it 
 was entered in the account as a receipt? A. I turned it right in. 
 
 Q. That is what that means, is it? A. Yes, sir; there are two 
 dividends. 
 
 Q. They never got it all back, did they ? A. Not quite. 
 
 Q. I see that the report published last month shows a balance 
 on hand of $1,278.96; as a matter of fact, you had something 
 over $2,400 on hand, didn't you? A. There was altogether; yes^ 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Last year you levied a tax of a dollar and a half a ton on 
 the boats, did you not? A. Well, there was a dollar and a half, 
 yes, sir ; it was to be a dollar. 
 
 Q. And collected accordingly ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And did you not last year collect something over $13,000, 
 including what you had on hand at the beginning of the year? 
 A. Perhaps I might, but I wouldn't say to just the amount, be- 
 cause I was depending on my books altogether. 
 
 Q. This report says " To balance in hand from last year, 
 $1,996.97"? ^. There were two— 
 
 Q. The tonnage tax received since the last report, exclusive of 
 the extra assessment for special purposes, $7,594.81, making the 
 total receipts acknowledged here $9,691.78. Now, didn't you in 
 fact receive 50 per cent, more than that, and isn't this $7,594 
 
BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 643 
 
 simply a dollar a ton on the tonnage that was licensed ? A. Yes, 
 sir; well, there was two — one at a dollar and one at half a dollar, 
 
 Q. In other words, you took a half dollar off and set it aside 
 as if it were a separate license fee ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, as a matter of fact, when the boats came to you to 
 be licensed last year you didn't license any boat for less than a 
 dallar and a half, did you ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And nobody could get a license for less than that ? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. And the license fee of a dollar and a half was levied under 
 these acts that I have read, by the association, wasn't it? A. 
 Well, I don't know the proceedings of the meeting, how it was 
 to be raised, or what purpose. 
 
 Q. Do you attend the meetings of the executive committee ? 
 A. Not all the time, no, sir ; that is done by the meetings. 
 
 Q. This report which I have shown you then simply gives an 
 account of a dollar a ton, but excludes the additional half dollar 
 a ton which was really levied and collected, doesn't it? A. 
 There was a report of a dollar, and then there was a half dollar. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — "Was that reported ; was the 
 half dollar reported? A. I don't know ; it is in mine. 
 
 Q. I am not questioning your good faith about it at ail ; I only 
 want to get it at the facts ; I am satisfied you have done just as 
 they ordered to be done 2 A. I have done just as the counsel 
 for the association — 
 
 Q. Who was it that directed you to do so ; who was the coun- 
 sel who gave these directions 1 A. 1 don't know who had them. 
 
 Q. What is the name of this counsel of whom you have spoken ? 
 A. Walter H. Bacon. 
 
 Q. So that your books, if they were here then really show your 
 receipts of last year to be 14,000 and odd dollars, instead of 
 $9,500, do they not? A. I think thirteen and something, and 
 eleven and something. You see, mine is separate. 
 
 Q. They ordered you to put it separate ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But taking the two funds together, you had on hand at the 
 March meeting something more than |2,400, did you not? A. I 
 judge I had, although I didn't reckon that way ; all that I knew 
 about that is it was two separate funds, and thirteen in one, I 
 think, and eleven in the other. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees)— Did they ever tell ycu why they 
 separated them that way, ever give any reason for so doing ? 
 A. Well, I don't know as I can answer that question, only it was 
 raised — it seemed to be raised as a separate fond to be used for 
 certain purposes. 
 
644 BENJAMIN CAMPBEIX. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorheea) — Did you ever publish through 
 the public print an account of that 60 cents a ton tund ? A. ITot 
 that I know of; I didn't have it published myself. 
 
 Q. Did the executive committee publish it ? A. 1 don't know 
 about it; I don't know whether they did or not. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is just this reference to it; the 
 beginning of the report is in this form : "Annual Re- 
 port of the Executive Committee of Maurice River 
 Cove and Delaware Bay Oyster Association for the year 
 ending the third Monday in March, eighteen hundred 
 and ninety-five. Your Executive Committee make the 
 following report of receipts and disbursements for the 
 past year : Benjamin Campbell, Collector of the Oyster 
 Fund, in account with the Maurice River Cove and 
 Delaware Bay Oyster Association." Then follow the 
 figures, dated March 18, 1895, signed by Mr. Campbell. 
 " We, the undersigned, have audited the foregoing 
 account and find the same correct as to charge and dis- 
 charge thereof, with vouchers for the several payments, 
 duly sworn to and approved, and with a balance on hand 
 of twelve hundred and seventy-eight dollars and ninety- 
 six cents. 
 
 " We would further report that the extra assessment 
 of fifty cents per ton has been applied to the uses and 
 purposes for which it was specially assessed and col- 
 lected. 
 
 "All which is respectfully submitted, this eighteenth 
 day of March, eighteen hundred and ninety- five. 
 
 " Harrison Hollinger, Chairman, 
 " William T. Whitaker, 
 " Charles H. Howell, 
 " James O. Sheppard, 
 " Charles McClain, 
 '■^Executive Committee of Maurice Hiver Cove and 
 Delaware Bay Oyster Association." 
 Senator Skirm — Does it state what the special pur- 
 pose was? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. Why didn't they publish the amount that was received — do 
 you know, Mr. Campbell? A. N"o, sir. 
 
 Q. Was there any reason for concealing it ? A. No, sir, not 
 any ; it isn't concealed in any shape that I know of. 
 
BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 645 
 
 Q. What was that 50 cents additional levied for? A. Well, 
 the minutes of the meeting will show that. 
 
 Q. Don't you recall why it was levied ? A. Well, I don't 
 know that I can put it just right. 
 
 Q. Wasn't there a good deal of objection against it on the part 
 of boat owners? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you have to give them a reason for it? It was 
 rather an unpleasant task ; everybody was finding fault with you 
 for sticking on this great tonnage tax. A. It was the associa- 
 tion that did it. 
 
 Q. Did you always take refuge in the excuse that the associa- 
 tion ordered it, or did you tell them why the association ordered ? 
 A. I always told them why whenever I knew it. 
 
 Q. Don't you know why the extra 50 cents was levied? A. 
 For the protection of the association. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It was to fight some legal battles, wasn't 
 it, against the riparian owners. 
 
 Witness — Yes, sir ; something like that. 
 Senator Herbert — Did you write the report Mr. Cor- 
 bin has just read? 
 
 Senator Skirm — Didn't the counsel of the association 
 write it? 
 
 Witness — I did. 
 A. (By Senator Herbert) — In the language in which it is writ- 
 ten? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Corbin) — The heading there — didn't the attorney 
 get that up for you ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Mr. Herbert wants to know if 
 the attorney didn't prepare that for you — the report. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You made your report to the com- 
 mittee and this is the committee's report? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Herbert) — It isn't your report? A. It is just 
 like mine. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — It has the same items ? 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But what Mr. Herbert meant was 
 this— that after you made up your report of the figures and facts, 
 then the counsel or the executive committee put it in proper 
 shape for this report. A. I writ out — I had my clerk writ out 
 the report. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Herbert) — That was to the committee? A. 
 Yes, sir; that was to go into the meeting; yes, sir; that was to 
 the committee. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then this item here that is published 
 here, is this just in the language that you used precisely, and you 
 
646 BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 
 
 made this yourself, or your clerk made it, or did the committee 
 make this up and make this statement afterwards? A. This tal- 
 lies with my book. 
 
 (By Senator Skirm) — What I want to know is, whether the 
 counsel didn't make this up after you gave him the facts? A. I 
 presume he did; I don't know. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Coebin. 
 
 Q. Then these iSgures are all taken from your book? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Bat the report of the executive committee which is added 
 at the end, and their preface at the beginning, are something that 
 they wrote and had prepared, are they not? 
 
 Q. By Senator Bkirm) — Don't you know whether you wrote 
 that or not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I think I could understand very 
 clearly — if I wrote a report I would know whether it was my 
 wording or the wording of somebody else. Now don't you know 
 that that executive committee, or the counsel, or somebody else, 
 wrote that, and that you didn't write it? A. I didn't write it; 
 no, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That is all right; that is what I 
 wanted you to say ; that is what I would do — get some- 
 body else to correct my statement, or put it in shape. 
 
 Q. I see your executive committee, when they met, got about 
 $25 a meeting; that is $5 apiece for the five, I suppose? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, now, I observe that when they met on the 16th of 
 March, 1894, they charged up for that meeting — that was the 
 last meeting of the year — $32.50, and that that left on hand as 
 the balance of the year, $1,996.97; now, if that meeting of the 
 committee had been as cheap as the rest, and had cost only $25, 
 there would have been a couple of thousand dollars there for the 
 State, wouldn't there? A. Indeed, that is not my — to the best 
 of my knowledge, I don't think any of them knew how it was 
 coming out until they settled up on the last day. 
 
 Q. What made that meeting cost more than the rest? A. 
 [ndeed, I couldn't tell you. 
 
 Q. I see this last year that your legislative expenses at Trenton 
 were some $849 ; What was the occasion of sending anybody up 
 to Trenton ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — You needn't be afraid of the 
 Committee ; speak right out. 
 
BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 647 
 
 Q. Speak right out, Mr, Campbell ; we are not after you. A. 
 "Well, I can't tell you ; I don't know anything about it — nothing 
 outside of my work; I can tell you all about what I did, but I 
 don't know what other people did. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — But you had to pay out the 
 money? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman "Voorhees) — You got your vouchers sworn 
 to ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (Chairman Voorhees) — Can't you tell us what it was for? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you go up to Trenton? A. No, sir; this is the first 
 time I was ever in Trenton ; I have been in business quite a good 
 while, but I have never been in Trenton before. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — When was that expenditure of $800 ? 
 Mr. Corbin — I was just going to call attention to the 
 items ; there were several items of it. On the 26th of 
 April, 1894, expenses of delegation to Trenton, $43.75; 
 June 6th, expenses in the matter of Assembly bill No. 
 383 and Senate bills 131 and 268, and in connection with 
 the oyster commission, $364.24. 
 
 Senator Skirra — Wouldn't it be in order to ask Mr. 
 Campbell what those expenses were for? 
 
 Q. Yes ; what was that $364 for ; what is the fare from Port 
 Norris up here and back? A. It cost me |2.75. 
 
 Q. About three dollars? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, if you had another three dollars for hotel bill, making 
 it six, that bill would have brought sixty of them, wouldn't it? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Wasn't there a very large delegation 
 here at that time ? A. No doubt ; I don't know anything about 
 that. I can't tell you anything about it; there was a delegation, 
 that is all I know ; that was transacted by some one else, not me ; 
 I can't tell you a thing about it. 
 
 Q. Were you present at any meeting of the executive commit- 
 tee when they decided to take a hand in that legislation ? A. 1 
 don't know that I was there. 
 
 Q, Do you know whether they opposed or favored it ? A. No, 
 sir ; I didn't meet with them only once in a while. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether they opposed or favored these bills 
 that I mention, these bills that were introduced into the Legisla- 
 ture ? A. Why, I supposed that they favored them ; yes sir. 
 
 Q. " James 0. Sheppard, expenses to Trenton, $22.98," Feb- 
 ruary 28th of the present year ; what is that for? A. I don't 
 know. 
 
648 BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 
 
 Q. Let me read you this item. " March 16, 1895, to expenses 
 of delegation to Trenton on Senate bill No. 251, and House bills 
 Noa. 284 and 330 ; said delegation made several trips to Trenton, 
 $249.67." Who were the delegation? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. "Expenses of delegation framing bill 380, |20.35. What 
 delegation framed that bill ? A. I don't know, 
 
 Q. Does your association own certain vessels that do watching? 
 A, Only one. 
 
 Q. What is the name of that vessel? A. " State Eights." 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do you keep all these books ? Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. These large books which you have produced are the records 
 of licenses? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Copies of licenses which you issued to masters of vessels ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will submit one of them to the Com- 
 mittee so that they may see just how the thing is done. 
 This is the book for 1894, you will observe. Take li- 
 cense No. 293, which is the first one I opened to ; you 
 will observe a charge of 186.95, for a vessel with the 
 tonnage of about twenty-four, at a dollar and a half. 
 The next one is a vessel, $84.98, license fee on 23 5-10 
 burden, named the "Annie Rooney." 
 
 Q. Show me the accounts of the year 1894, and ending March,, 
 1895. How do you keep your accounts ? A. First on sheets or 
 memorandum. 
 
 Q. Book, or what? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got those ? A. Take them right off my book 
 there. 
 
 Q. Take them ofi from the sheets and enter them in your cash 
 book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And write up your cash book once in a while when it is 
 convenient, I suppose ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't enter in this cash book each item day by day, 
 but write them up from time to time, don't you? A. No, sir; I 
 put them right in as soon as I find them out, what they are. 
 
 Q. Who keeps the license book? A. I keep the license book. 
 
 Q. Do you sign the licenses ? A. Yes, sir ; that is all I know 
 anything about, is issuing the licenses. 
 
 Q. ]Sow, in this last year have you kept that 50 cents a ton 
 separate, or is it all in one account ? A. No, sir ; it is separate. 
 
 Q. Where is the account ? A. That is, the half dollar first 
 went in the book. 
 
BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 649 
 
 Q. So that when you entered it into these cash booits you sep- 
 arated the 50 cents and put it in one place, and the dollar in 
 another place ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This seems to show that you have a balance of 50 cents a 
 ton tax, 11,133.18 in hand? A. Yes, sir; that is the 50 cents. 
 
 Q, And you have kept your dollar tax in another book ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, when your association met this last March they took a 
 vote, didn't they, on the question ot what the tonnage should be 
 this coming year? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And they voted in tavor of 75 cents a ton, didn't they ? A. 
 They just suggested that. 
 
 Q. Their suggestion was in the form of a vote, wasn't it ; wasn't 
 it moved and seconded and carried unanimously that the tax this 
 coming year be 75 cents a ton? A. They said it was; I wasn't 
 in the room just at that time. 
 
 Q. Afterwards your Executive Committee got together and 
 made it a dollar and a quarter, didn't they? A. Yes, sir; they 
 put it a dollar and a quarter ; they have that power. 
 
 Q. And disregarded the suggestion or instruction of the annual 
 meeting? A. Yes, sir; if they did, and I guess they said some- 
 thing about it there. 
 
 Q. Have you got the minute book here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Let us see it ? A. Captain Eoray has got it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I notice here that there is a charge 
 for D. J. Pancoaet for professional service, a thousand dollars, 
 and W. H. Bacon, a thousand dollars ; do I understand that that 
 is a charge that these gentlemen made for one year's professional 
 services? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And you paid that on the order of the 
 Board? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then both these lawyers got $1,000 
 apiece for j rofessional services for a year; do I understand that? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Now, turn back to the year before 
 and see how much they got then. I sftppose the idea of that was 
 simply so that this amount should not exceed $2,000, and there- 
 fore if it exceeded too much their services might have been |1,500 
 instead ot one thousand. It must be profitable to be attorneys in 
 South Jersey as well in North Jersey. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, we try to make it profitable. 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Senator evidently is not 
 acquainted with this end of the State. We have no 
 
C50 BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 
 
 oyster industry in North Jersey, but we have the grocery 
 industry. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But in all seriousness, to see such an 
 entry as that, of $2,000 for legal services for two gentle- 
 men, it seems that it is rather excessive, that is all. Of 
 course you have no option excepting to pay what the 
 Board authorized you to pay. 
 Witness — That is all. 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Why did you need two lawyers for 
 that work? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Right below this is another item. 
 I find that there were fifty-three cases in the Cumberland Quarter 
 Sessions. I suppose they performed services in connection with 
 that? A. They had work to do; now, there was work in that. 
 Senator Skirno — I suppose in addition to that they 
 got their costs. I always find taxed costs in any bill I 
 have to pay, in addition to what the lawyer charges. 
 Mr. Corbin — I think I can clear that up somewhat. 
 Q. Yoiir association undertook to defend some fifty-three men 
 who had been indicted, didn't they? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And your executive committee devoted these moneys to the 
 defence of certain individuals who had been indicted by the 
 Cumberland county grand jury for stealing oysters; is that so? 
 A. Well, I don't know what it was; it was all ground that I 
 don't know anything about. 
 
 Q. It grew out of the oyster raid, didn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Some of them had been caught 
 stealing ? 
 
 Mr. Corbie — I don't want to use hard words, but 
 
 taking oysters which had not been bought. Doesn't 
 
 that explain it? 
 
 Q. Didn't your committee take one-third of all your fund last 
 
 year; that is, 50 cents a ton on every vessel, and set it aside to 
 
 defend certain people who were charged by your grand jury 
 
 with stealing oysters ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorheee — What authority had they for 
 doing that? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Possibly this act of 1894 that I read to 
 to you. 
 Q. How many members are there of this association? A. 
 The oyster association? I can't answer that question ; there are 
 a power of them. 
 
 Q. About how many — a thousand? A. Yes, more than that 
 that is interested, you know. 
 
BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 651 
 
 Q. How many licensed vessels are there? A. They vary from 
 about 450 — 
 
 Q. I saw a report here one year ; I think it was seven hundred 
 and something, wasn't it? A. No, never more than 500 a year, 
 450, maybe 455. 
 
 Q. Each boat represents how many men on an average? A. 
 Well, according to the size of the boat ; about three or four men, 
 and some larger boats five or six. 
 
 Q. Between one and two thousand men are interested in this 
 association? A. More than that. 
 
 Q. Do they all have a vote? A. Only captains and owners; 
 those are the ones that are most deeply interested. 
 
 Q. These criminal litigations which your association undertook 
 to defend grew out of the contest with the riparian owners, did 
 they not ? A. Well, I think so. 
 
 Q. Is there any doubt about it? Isn't that the fact? A. 
 There isn't any doubt, but that part I don't know anything about. 
 
 Q. You were not one of the indicted men ? A. No, sir, I 
 wasn't one of the indicted ones — that question I can answer. 
 
 Q. This special fund which you have entered in a special book, 
 so tar as it has been expended at all, has been expended in litiga- 
 tion, has it not? A. I have the bills of them all. 
 
 Q. Here is the first item of expenses: Witnesses, $172; Pan- 
 coast, professional services, $1,000; W. H. Bacon, professional 
 services, $1,000; expenses preparing testimony, &c., $435.87; 
 
 George , attending court, $10.86 ; schooner J. W. , for 
 
 services rendered the association, &c. ; total, $2,657.02. It was 
 all expended in that litigation, wasn't it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you have got $1,133 of it in the bank? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are you collecting the new tonnage tax at the rate of a 
 dollar and a quarter? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And your captains are taking their medicine and their 
 license, are they? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Isn't there a good deal of opposition to that after having 
 voted 75 cents ? A. There is by some, but that wasn't enough 
 to give them protection, you know, after they get their oysters 
 planted. 
 
 Q. You mean the executive committee want protection ? A. 
 No, sir ; the oyster association want it. 
 
 Q. Hasn't this matter really fallen into the hands of a few men 
 represented by your executive committee who are at the present 
 moment practically out of sympathy with the great body of your 
 oystermen? A. I judge so; yes, sir. 
 
652 BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 
 
 Q. Haven't they taken things into their own hands and run it 
 with a pretty high hand ; isn't that the truth about it ; I am 
 speaking of your executive committee. A. Well, I can't answer 
 that question, because, to the best of my knowledge, they are all 
 right. 
 
 Q. Is the executive committee this year the same as it was 
 last year ? A. Yes, sir ; well, no, sir ; there is one change. 
 
 Q. Harrison Hollinger is still your chairman ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. William T. Whitaker is still a member? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. Charles H. Howell ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. James 0. Sheppard? A. No, sir; Mr. Roray is in his place. 
 
 Q. Charles McClain still there ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There is only one change then? A. Only one change. 
 
 Q. Your association owns one vessel that helps watch ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Now, 1 see the schooner " R. & A. Smith " is paid $160 a 
 month for watching. Who owns that vessel? A. The captain 
 of her. 
 
 Q. Who is the captain? A. John M. Woodruff, I think his 
 name is. 
 
 Q. Your special officer is paid $175 a month salary ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. What does he do ? A. He goes day and night, watches 
 this oyster association. 
 
 §. He sails in the " State Righte," I suppose ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Does he carry the New Jersey flag ? A. Trying to protect 
 all the association that he can. 
 
 Q. And keep other folks from stealing oysters ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The schooner " H. H. Lippincott," $125 a month for watch- 
 ing. Who owns her ? A. Howard Stockwell owns her to-day ; 
 she has changed hands since last year. 
 
 Q. Who owned her last year ? A. John Robbins, I think, 
 while she was watching there. 
 
 Q. The sloop "Annie M. Carey," for watching ; who owns her? 
 A. I think a man by the name of Gibson. 
 
 Q. " William Pollock," for watching in the Bay, $125; has he 
 got a vessel ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. These are all sail vessels ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You have no steam watching vessel ? A. No, sir. 
 
 (2. The sloop " Claude," one month watching, $100. Who 
 owns her? A. Two or three owners of her; Captain Terry is 
 one owner ; I can't hardly — I could tell you if necessary. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think I have some figures here that 
 will answer as to what these expenses are really for ; I 
 
BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 653 
 
 have classified them for last year ; the annual meeting 
 of August 20, that is, the committee meeting : 
 
 Annual meeting $20 25 
 
 Committee meetings 406 50 
 
 Legal expenses — 
 
 W. H. Bacon $50 00 
 
 D. J. Pancoast 100 00 
 
 Suits, costs, &c 156 76 
 
 306 76 
 
 Books, blanks and printing 72 10 
 
 Watching — 
 
 R. & A. Smith, schooner |1,941 38 
 
 Special officer 2,123 33 
 
 H. H. Lippincott, schooner 210 00 
 
 William Pollock, schooner 1,229 00 
 
 Claude, schooner 100 00 
 
 Other watching 248 16 
 
 5,911 82 
 
 State Rights 436 06 
 
 Collector 260 00 
 
 Sundries , 147 09 
 
 Trenton 763 24 
 
 $8,312 82 
 
 Q. I see here, " Collector, $260 ; " is that all they pay you for 
 all this work ? A. Yes, sir ; that is all I ever have had. 
 
 Q. It don't seem as though they paid you as well as this special 
 oflScer? A. They all don't know what this work is. 
 
 Q. N'ow, tell us what these four or five vessels do for this six 
 thousand dollars they get? A. Why, they go day and night, 
 patrol the coast after the oystermen plants their oysters. 
 
 Q. Sail up and down ? A. Yes, sir; to watch. 
 
 Q. Do they ever catch anybody? A. Well, they try to ; they 
 think they do once in a while. 
 
 Q. Isn't it a fact that you have only captured two vessels — one 
 a Philadelphia fellow, and another, a little one — in the last five 
 years? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. You have had two sales of boats, haven't you, in five years? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. One of them sold for fifty dollars? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the other sold for $300? A. I forget the sum. 
 
 Q. Do you remember whether one-half of the condemnation 
 money was paid into the State School Fund? A. I don't re- 
 member any of it being paid in. 
 
654 BENJAMIN CAMPBELL. 
 
 Q. Half of that goes to the School Fund? A. I say I don't 
 remember its ever being paid into the association. 
 
 Q. You recollect the fact, don't you, of the sale of those two 
 vessels that were seized and condemned? A. How long ago? 
 
 Q. Do you remember the schooner " White Wing " being 
 seized and sold for $300 in 1893 ? A. I don't know what she 
 sold for ; I remember her being seized. 
 
 Q. Wasn't she sold for having a non-resident on board? A. I 
 know she was only sold for just what there was against her; she 
 was sold, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you get the money — doesn't it pass through your 
 books here 1 A. 1 didn't get any money from her. 
 
 Q. Who got the money when she was sold ? A. Why, as near 
 as I can tell, she only fetched just what the expense it was of 
 selling her. 
 
 Q. You mean to say the expense of seizing and condemning 
 that boat cost $300 ? A. That is the way it is, to the best of my 
 knowledge; there wasn't anything paid in. 
 
 Q. Well, then, the sloop boat "Amanda B." was sold for some 
 cause for $50; wasn't she? A. I don't know that she was. 
 
 Q. Aren't you the person that does the selling? A. I don't 
 have anything to do with it. 
 
 Q. Well, you never got any money out of it ? A. ISTo, sir, 
 never as collector. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Or any othe'r way? A. l^o, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, have any boats been seized, except those two, in the 
 past five years? A. I don't know that there have ; seized, did 
 you say? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. I don't know ; Captain Roray maybe knows. 
 
 Q. Have any fines been imposed through your association in 
 the past five years ? A. No, sir ; I have never received any. 
 
 Q. Well, do you know whether the special officer has prose- 
 cuted any of them ? A. He hasn't won any cases that I know of. 
 
 Q. What does he do then, just holler at them when he sees 
 them ? A. They have tried to, they tried to do something with 
 them. 
 
 Q. But have not succeeded ? A. They haven't never got any 
 money out of it. 
 
 Q. Never succeeded in convicting one, yoti say 7 A. 1 think 
 they convicted one here not very long ago for stealing, but they 
 didn't get anything out of it only court charges. 
 
 Q. Then is the patrol really eflectual at all? A. Oh, yes. 
 
 Q. What do they do when they see a man on the ground 
 
BENJAMIN KOKAY. 655 
 
 where he ought not to be ? A. A great many of them were 
 afraid of them ; they scare them away. 
 
 Q. But suppose they caught a man clearly fishing on the wrong 
 ground, what do they do about it ? A. If the law is sufficient — 
 
 Q. We have the statute book here. Do you mean to say they 
 do nothing more than to warn them to go away? A. Where 
 there is evidence for it they try it. 
 
 Q. And yet they have made but two seizures in five years ? A. 
 1 don't know how many ; I don't remember that they have. 
 
 Q. Well, is the patrol really effectual ; isn't there great com- 
 plaint about pilfering and poaching on oyster beds? A. Well, 
 there is some complaint of it, but still the watchmen does all 
 they can. 
 
 Q. They do? A. Yes, all they can, and they are a great 
 benefit. 
 
 Q. They have a moral effect ? A. Yee ; the association would 
 like to have more of them, but they don't want to pay any more 
 than they possibly can. 
 
 Q. How many months in the year are oysters taken ? A. All 
 the time, that is, excepting in the summer, two months, then they 
 would if they could, some of them. 
 
 Q. Keep these boats going all the year? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. These guard boats ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are they armed? A. I don't know, sir. 
 
 Q. Aren't you an oysterman? A. ~Ho, sir; I am a storekeeper. 
 
 Q. But you belong to the association, don't you? A. I am a 
 little owner in a boat, a little interested; I would be better ofi if 
 I wasn't. 
 
 Q. Did the subject ever come up before your meetings of pay- 
 ing over some of this money to the School Fund? A. No, sir; I 
 never had any talk over it. 
 
 Q. It was never mentioned ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — If these boats were not patroling the 
 bay is it likely that there would be more stealing than there now 
 is ? A. The association might as well stop, I think, altogether ; 
 if it wasn't for that they would take everything they have. 
 , Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then it does prevent the stealing ? 
 A. It is a big benefit ; I don't know what they would do. 
 
 Q. You think that part of the expense of, the association then 
 is beneficial, do you, the watching? A. Very. 
 
 Benjamin Rc-ray, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin : 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Cedarviile, New Jersey. 
 
656 BENJAMIN RORAY. 
 
 Q. What is your business ? A. Ojstering. 
 
 Q. "Were you secretary of the annual meeting in March last at 
 Port Norris ? A. No, sir ; Captain Levi Robbins was secretary 
 of the annual meeting. 
 
 <2- You, however, entered the minutes and signed them, did 
 you not? A. Yes, sir; after the election of officers then I was 
 chosen as secretary. 
 
 Q. I see you have entered up here " Collector's salary was 
 placed at $300 per year, tonnage tax $1.25 per ton ; " there was 
 some discussion about it, wasn't there, and the vote of the asso- 
 ciation taken on the proposition of 75 cents ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. How did that result ? A. Well, the motion was carried to 
 place it at 75 cents by a very small majority. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you enter it that way? A. Well, because I 
 thought that motion was entirely out of order. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Had it been carried. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And yet you thought it was out of 
 order? A. Yes, on account of the law ; the law gives the execu- 
 tive committee the sole right to set the tonnage tax, at their own 
 discretion. 
 
 Q. And so you entered in the record that the association had 
 voted a dollar and a quarter? A. Yes, sir; no, that the execu- 
 tive committee did. 
 
 Q. You have got it down here that the association voted it 
 that way. A. After the meeting had organized. 
 
 Q. You have the minutes all together, have you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The committee meeting? A. Yes, sir; after it organized. 
 
 Q. After the association had voted 75 cents, you mean to say 
 you omitted that vote, although they had passed it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Because you thought it was not good law ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 that law leaves it to the committee, what the tonnage tax shall be. 
 
 Q. I suppose this association of twelve or fifteen hundred or 
 several hundred oystermen have got a right to express an opin- 
 ion on it, haven't they? A. That is true ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But their opinion don't have much weight with the execu- 
 tive committee ? A. Yes, sir; but there is just a few that didn't 
 want any tonnage tax at all. , 
 
 Q. But they voted for 75 cents — a majority? A. Yes, sir; 
 but a very small majority. 
 
 Q. It used to be 50 cents ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What makes things come so much higher now? A. At 
 that time we had no riparian rights to fight, that is the idea ; it 
 seems as though at the present day there are about twenty-five or 
 thirty that have bought up our natural oyster beds. 
 
BENJAMIN EOEAY. 657 
 
 Q. What do you mean by riparian rights to fight? A. The 
 Riparian CommissionerB have sold to certain parties our natural 
 oyster beds ; they have given them a right to take a part of our 
 natural oyster beds. 
 
 Q. And so you want more money to fight the grantees of the 
 Riparian Commissioners ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Why don't you repeal the law, 
 or attempt to? A. We have been trying. 
 
 Q. Then you have got the Delaware Bay Association into a 
 fight with the Riparian Commissioners of New Jersey ? A. On 
 account of the Riparian Commissionere — riparian owners. 
 
 Q. Actually had a fight down there a while ago, and some 
 guns were fired? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — ISTobody hurt, though ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. No militia called out? A. No, sir; considerable news- 
 paper talk. 
 
 Q. There were guns fired on the shore? A. It was done for 
 a scare ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I should say it would be a scare ; it would be for me, to 
 have a gun pointed at me? A. If this money wasn't raised for 
 that purpose our oyster beds would soon go into the hands of a 
 few men. 
 
 Q. Here is a resolution passed last March ; " on motion, it was 
 unanimously carried that the balance of the amount raised by 
 the 50 cents per ton be retained for the same purpose for which 
 it was raised;" that is, to fight the riparian folks? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Why don't these folks fight the Ri- 
 parian Commissioners themselves at their own expense ; why do 
 you take the State's money to fight the Riparian Commissioners ? 
 A. I don't think that we do; we raise this money for that pur- 
 pose. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — I understand these are the reve- 
 nues of the State you are spending? A. No, sir; there was 50 
 cents a ton raised purposely for that express purpose. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You put that in a separate fund ? 
 A. Yes, sir ; now, there was an injunction placed on our money, 
 and after this injunction was raised, I think it was the State 
 Chancellor — he said that this money, 50 cents, that was raised, 
 must be used for the exact purpose which it was raised for, and 
 it could be raised for no other purpose. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Be careful when you quote the Chancel- 
 lor, for I have his opinion here. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Is that the reason why Pancoast and 
 Bacon rendered a bill of a thousand dollars each and $400 for 
 
 42 SH 
 
658 BENJAMIN EORAY. 
 
 Bome other expenses? A. Mr. Pancoast and Mr. Bacon has had 
 some have very hard work this year. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I should think they had from the 
 amount of the cost. A. That is all true, but at the same time 
 they had some very hard work. 
 
 Q. Your association undertook at its own expense the defense 
 of those that were charged with crime, as well as those that were 
 attacked by the Chancery proceeding? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that accounts for the large legal expense ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. "Was it the association that determined to do that, or the 
 executive committee ? A. To raise this money, you mean ? 
 
 Q. I mean to undertake the defense of the individuals who 
 were charged with the crime. A. Yes, sir; the entire associa- 
 tion. 
 
 Q. And after the entire association had determined that, there 
 was a raid made on these oyster beds? A. Quite a number of 
 the oystermen went there, because they claimed that they were 
 working on their own natural premises. 
 
 Q. They went to raise the legal question? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then followed the Chancery suit, and after that the 
 indictments? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever know of the question of paying this money 
 into the School Fund coming up^before your association or your 
 committee 1 A. 1 don't know that I ever did. 
 
 Q. Were you one of the delegation to Trenton last winter? 
 A. I was, at one time; I think somewhere about the sixteenth of 
 March. 
 
 Q. What did they have to spend $800 for? A. Well, now, 
 then, that is a question that I can't answer, simply because I 
 wasn't a' member of the association at that time. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You were up here, though ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; by request of the committee. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — How did they spend the money? A. 
 That is something I can't tell ; I suppose it was for the expenses, 
 traveling up and down ; there was quite a large delegation, some 
 twenty-five or thirty men ; you take twenty-five or thirty men 
 from South Jersey, and stay here two or three days, the hotel 
 bills and things amount up. 
 
 Q. Was it to oppose or obtain certain legislation? A. It was 
 to oppose Bill 251, I believe, which virtually took the power out 
 of the Oyster ^Vssociation and placed it into the hands of the 
 riparian owners ; it was going to take it out of the hands of the 
 many and put it in the hands of the few. 
 
BENJAMIN RORAY. 659 
 
 Q. And the Association paid the expenses of their coming up ? 
 A. Yes, sir ; that is what it was raised for. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't care, unless the Committee 
 desire, to go into it and pursue all the ramifications of 
 this oyster business. The only matter I suppose the 
 Committee is particularly interested in is the matter of 
 the State revenue; and it is quite obvious, even by this 
 surface examination of the subject, that there were two 
 years at least when there were moneys that should have 
 been paid into the School Fund, unless there be some 
 further explanation than has been so far afforded us. 
 
 The matter to which this witness has referred, the 
 litigation before the Chancellor, appears in some papers 
 which I have here and can submit. I don't know that 
 it is worth while to discuss it. 
 
 It seems that one of the riparian owners filed a bill 
 in Chancery to restrain the oystermen from taking 
 oysters from his lands under water which he had bought 
 from the State and received a deed for. An answer was 
 made to that, and upon the bill, answer and proofs the 
 injunction which the Vice-Chancellor had granted was 
 dissolved on the ground that the equities of the bill 
 were not clear, and that, apparently, there was a remedy 
 at law, and that the answer fully met the allegations of 
 the bill. I have that opinion here, but it simply goes 
 to show that this quarrel is on which the witness speaks 
 of. I believe that was followed by indictmeuts by the 
 Cumberland Grand Jury of a large number of these 
 people who had joined in the laid upon the grounds, 
 and I think those indictments were brought to the 
 Supreme Court and Court of Errors, and if I am 
 correctly informed, they were quashed here by the 
 Supreme Court for some lack of form ; but I suppose 
 the Committee doesn't care to follow that up. But 
 there does appear to me to have been some revenue 
 accumulated which ought to have gone to the State. 
 This law seems to be clear that whenever it has accu- 
 mulated to the extent of $2,000 it should have been paid 
 over into the School Fund. Wow,, there is at the 
 present time some $2,400 in hand. This separation of 
 the tax into two parts does not seem to me to touch the 
 question at all. 
 
 There is only one law which authorizes any tax to be 
 levied, and that is the law which I read. They can de- 
 
660 BENJAMIN RORAY. 
 
 vote it to perhaps half a dozen different purposes, and 
 the balance or the amount on hand on the first Monday 
 in March is what determines whether the State should 
 have the money or not. There was an act passed in 
 1894 which I read which is a very peculiar act. I can 
 hardly conceive that the members of the Legislature 
 understood all the bearings of it when they voted for it. 
 It seems to forgive all delinquencies of the past, and 
 then says that they may use the moneys they had on 
 hand, or whatever shall come to their hands hereafter, for 
 any purpose they shall conceive will best serve the in- 
 torcbt of the majority. 
 
 I am inclined to think that you cannot take away a 
 part of the revenues of the State with any such loose 
 language as that without any express repeal of the part 
 which makes this the revenues of the State; but that 
 would not affect the revenues of the previous years. 
 It seems to me that there should have been some revenue 
 derived from this source. These fines and penalties, 
 whatever they are, go one-half to the School Fund. 
 Nothing has been returned from those, and I am a little 
 surprised at the collector stating that they never have 
 been passed through his hand. I suppose the special 
 officer could explain that, and I will say that I sent a 
 summons for the special officer, but as he was out on the 
 deep, he is not here. 
 
 Witness — Would you let me make a few remarks 
 here? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes. 
 
 Witness— On the 29th day of ISTovember, 1893, the 
 executive committee went before the Riparian Commis- 
 sioners in Jersey City ; I accompanied them by request. 
 We went up there and asked them if they had ever 
 given any grants for the purpose of propagating oysters ; 
 they said that they never had ; they had no right to, 
 and the Governor says, " If I was in the oyster business 
 1 should go there and go to work until I was prevented, 
 by building wharves or docks or improving the prop- 
 erty ; " that is what the Governor said that day, the 
 29th day of November, 1893. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is no doubt an honest difierence 
 between these people as to their relative rights and the 
 rights of the State, and it is by no means a small ques- 
 tion to decide. It grows out of the policy the State has 
 
BENJAMIN EORAY. 661 
 
 adopted with reference to the riparian lands ; the State 
 has made a number of sales — I think some thirty — of 
 riparian lands, and has given a deed for them ; those 
 deeds in form convey every foot of the land on which 
 the water flows, and extend, I understand, some seven- 
 teen hundred feet from the shore. 
 
 Now, on some of these lands there are natural oyster 
 beds where heretofore any citizen could have taken 
 oysters, and a very nice question arises whether the 
 State of New Jersey has conveyed those oyster beds. 
 Of course, this tribunal isn't here to settle that question, 
 but it is quite obvious that there is a real question, and 
 one involving quite serious consequences, with reference 
 to riparian lands pending between these people, but I 
 suppose the Committee will not care to concern itself 
 in anything further than the revenues of the State. 
 
 Chairman Yoorhees — Unless some suggestions could 
 be made relative to legislation. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It opens the question which Senator 
 Daly's bill opened, and is for Senators to argue, rather 
 than counsel. It opens the question of the policy of the 
 State with reference to the riparian lands — a very 
 serious question. 
 
 Witness — If this controversy had not arisen, the 
 probabilities are that the Delaware bay oyster industry 
 would have been in the hands of a very few men. There 
 is one thing I would like to make a little straight on 
 that surplus in 1892, when there was a surplus of $2,005 
 and the $500. At the time there was an oyster trial 
 pending in the court, with an expense supposed to be 
 about $500, and that was taken out at that time for our 
 counsel. Our counsel at that time was Potter & Nixon, 
 and to-day they are opposing us; at that time they 
 advised us to do that thing; that is why we reserved 
 that out. 
 Q. The $500? A. Yes, sir; there is really, according to the 
 
 books, five dollars that belonged to the State. 
 
 Q. That isn't the law. The law is that the oyster fund, when 
 
 it amounts to as much as $2,000, shall be paid into the State 
 
 Treasury. J.. After all expenses? 
 
 Q. Yes; after the expenses are paid. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That you should pay your expenses and close it the first 
 
 Monday of March. 
 
662 JOHS T VAN CLEEF. 
 
 John T. Van Cleef, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 0. You are the Secretary of the State Board of Assessors? 
 A. Yes, sir; I act as Secretary of the Board; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You have been from the time of their formation, in 1884, 
 have you not? A. 1884; 11 years. 
 
 Q. I show you " Exhibit No. 208," being map of railroads of 
 ISTew Jersey, 1887. Was that map compiled by you and Mr. 
 Betts? A. Yes, sir ; it was compiled by Mr. Betts and myself — 
 the original of it. 
 
 Q. This is the original that I have here, I suppose? A. Yes, 
 sir; that is the hand drawing of the map. 
 
 Q. And it was from that that the plate was prepared for the 
 other ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is " Exhibit 207." And who printed it for you at 
 first ? A. Who printed it for me ? 
 
 Q. Or for you and Mr. Betts, or for whoever it was printed for. 
 A. I think it was — I don't remember — it is Wylie and — 
 
 Q. I call your attention to the imprint on the corner, " H. A. 
 Thomas & Wylie, lithographers." A. Yes, sir; Thomas & 
 Wylie. 
 
 Q. This first edition was printed in 1887, was it not ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; I think it was ; I am not sure about tLe dates. 
 
 Q. Mr. lograham, the manager of the concern, or the succes- 
 sors of that concern, testifies that an edition of 6,000 was printed 
 in the latter part of 1887, I think? A. I think it was 10,000. 
 
 Q. His testimony was that it was 6,000 ; you think the first 
 edition was more than 6,000 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you the invoices or the bills for it? A. No, sir; I 
 have not, but I thick that was given to us, the stone was 
 imported ; it was a large stone, and it was imported, they told 
 me, and I think the edition was 10,000 ; I am not sure about 
 that. 
 
 Q. You have no record to show what it was ? A. No, sir ; I 
 have not. 
 
 Q. Did you ever obtain any further edition from that house of 
 this map? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. This is the map, is it not, that accompanied the report of 
 the State Board of Assessors in 1887 ? A. Yes, sir ; that was 
 the extravagant map ; that is the map that cost so much money. 
 
 Q. How much money did it cost? A. I don't know, sir; I 
 can't remember; I have just got here; I have just been sub- 
 poenaed ; I don't know how much it cost ; I could tell you, 
 though, I think. 
 
JOHN T. VAN CLBEF. 663 
 
 Q. I see there is a mark on the back of this, and I think the 
 -clerk told me that you marked it 1888 to 1890? A. Are you 
 going to take advantage of that ? 
 
 Q. Not at all, I was going to ask you what it was; I only want 
 to get at the fact about it ; is that the map which accompanied 
 the reports for those years ? A. I am not quite sure about it; 
 I have only got my subpoena about half an hour ago — it wasn't 
 a subpoena at all ; I haven't been subpoenaed. 
 
 Q. No, out of courtesy we have not subpoenaed the State offi- 
 cers ; of course you are entitled to your witness fee, if you want 
 it. A. I don't care for that. 
 
 Q. There was subsequently made, was there not, a copy of this 
 map somewhat reduced? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Look at the one which I now show you ? A. Yes, sir ; two 
 copies I think it was ; we had two copies made. 
 
 Q. This is made — copyright 1892 by Van Cleef & Betts; it was 
 in the year 1892, was it not, when this reduced copy was made ? 
 A. I don't know, sir. 
 
 Q. Can you tell by anything you have to refer to ? A. 1 
 might ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This was corrected up to that date, was it not, when it was 
 reproduced by the adding of the new railroads that had been 
 constructed ? A. Yes, sir ; we added the new railroads. 
 
 Q. And this was photographed from the other and made by 
 this other process, was it not? A. No, it was photographed 
 from the old map. 
 
 Q. From the original map? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You laid the new railroads that had been built, upon the 
 old map? A. Yes, sir; I believe that was the way we did it, or 
 else it was photographed from the copy of this map. 
 
 Q. Either this or a copy ? A. Yes, sir ; either that or a copy 
 of it. 
 
 Q. I call your attention to Sandy Hook, to an old railroad 
 running up to Sandy Hook; I see the original does not contain 
 the new line of the Central built up to the Atlantic Highlands, 
 A. I am very sorry about that. 
 
 Q. But the printed one does ; you are all right on that. So 
 that the photograph must have been taken from the copy, must 
 it not, rather than from this ? A. Perhaps it was ; yes, sir ; 
 •taken from the copy. 
 
 Q. It could hardly have been taken from this then, with that 
 omitted? A. No. 
 
 Q. You will see by looking at the printed copy of 1892 that it 
 is correctly stated there ? A. Yes, sir ; I see that. 
 
664 JOHN T. VAN CLEEF. 
 
 (y. This second one, which I now have before you, is printed 
 upon metal, is it not ? A. Yes, sir; on metal. 
 
 Q. You never had any second stone made? A. Oh, no; the 
 stone was taken directly from the original map. 
 
 Q. The map which you first made was printed from the stone 
 by the Wylie people ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The one which you had made afterwards, in 1892 or there- 
 abouts, was put upon metal and was somewhat reduced? A. 
 Photo-lithograph, yes, sir. 
 
 Q, Have any other plates been made except those two — one 
 upon stone and the other one upon metal ? J.. I don't remember. 
 
 Q. Don't you remember who you ordered it from ? A. No, 
 sir ; I do not. 
 
 Q. This one which I am showing you, " Exhibit 210," has the 
 years 1894-5 upon it; I show you another one without color 
 which has 1893-4 upon it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Showing that at least the title must have been changed ? 
 A. I don't recollect. 
 
 Q. Is there any difference between these two that are now be- 
 fore you except in that date? A. I don't think there is. 
 
 Q. And the name of the State Board of Assessors? A. I 
 don't think so ; there might be a change here of a certain rail- 
 road in Cape May ; I don't know whether there is or not ; I 
 haven't had time to compare it. 
 
 Q. Will you look at it and see if there is any change ? A. 
 The maps are all changed in the office ; if there was a new road 
 we put it on without ink in the office, if there was any change ; 
 I thought there was a change here ; no, I don't think there was 
 any change in this at all. 
 
 Q. So that really there are two maps in existence, first, the one 
 on the stone plate, and second, the one upon the metal plate? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that is all, isn't it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This map on the metal plate hasn't really been corrected 
 down to the present date, has it; that is, from 1892 to the pres- 
 ent time? A. Except the extension of the Mendham branch of 
 the Raritan River Road and the Rockaway Valley. The only 
 thing is the Rockaway Valley, I think, and that was done by 
 ourselves in the office. 
 
 Q. You say that is not upon this map ? ^ . I don't think it is ; 
 it runs up from White House there. 
 
 Q. Isn't this it, running up from White House to Mendham ? 
 A. Yes; but the extension, I mean, of the Raritan River Eoad 
 and the Philadelphia and Reading Branch; the Port Reading 
 
JOHN T. VAN CLEEF. 665 
 
 isn't on ; the Port Eeading we put on in the office, with our own 
 mark; of course it is unfair to examine me upon this map, 
 because it is completed in the office. 
 
 Q. I don't wish to be unfair ; this is the one which is dated 
 1894-5; I assume that that is the last one that has been printed, 
 is it not? A. Yes, sir; I think so. 
 
 Q. If there is anything later I would like to have you bring it ; 
 I draw your attention also to the fact that across Newark Bay 
 the new line built by the Lehigh Valley has not been laid down, 
 which, ;;ou are aware, has been in existence for the last three 
 years ? A. Did you ever draw a map? 
 
 Q. E'o, I never did. ^. It is a pretty tough thing to do; I 
 couldn't get it in there ; the neck was so small I couldn't get it in 
 without destroying the whole line of the map. 
 
 Q. The Perth Amboy and Karitan, which is some five miles 
 long, from Perth Amboy to a point opposite New Brunswick ; I 
 don't see that ; that, I think, has been constructed between two 
 and three years; I am only asking you these questions to fix the 
 date to which this map has been brought up ? A. It was brought 
 up as far as we could get it with our other maps in the office. 
 This was not a map that we swore by ; it was an amateur's map, 
 made by myself and Mr. Betts; we spent a great deal of time 
 over it. 
 
 Q. But it really has not been brought down beyond the year 
 1892 has it ? A. Yes, it has, 
 
 Q. Beyond 1892? A. Yes, I think beyond 1892. 
 
 Q. What has been entered upon it since that? A. Well, there 
 were some changes ; I can't point them out ; there were, in the 
 first place, the Kockaway Valley road is put on, that has been 
 since then. 
 
 Q. Is that the road built by Mr. Pidcock, or known as Pid- 
 cock'sroad? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was built about 1890 or 1891, was it not? A. Are 
 you asking me ? 
 
 Q. Yes, do you recollect? A. No, sir ; I do not. 
 
 Q. Did you not consult the filed lines of these railroads in 
 locating new ones upon it? A. Yes, sir; we wrote for them. 
 
 Q. Well, they are in the Secretary of State's office, are they 
 not? A. Oh, no, Mr. Corbin; they are on a larger scale than we 
 have ; we couldn't utilize those at all ; we couldn't utilize the 
 maps in the Secretary of State's office to get up our map that we 
 had to send out to the people with our report. 
 
 Q. Well, so far as I have been able to examine these maps, I 
 find, first, this map of 1887, and then the map which I call the 
 
666 JOHN T. VAN CLEEF. 
 
 map of 1892; it is marked copyrighted that year, but all the 
 maps that have been produced seem to be either one or the other. 
 If there are any additions, and there is any third one, I should 
 be pleased to have you point it out? A. It isn't very much 
 trouble to put a railroad on a map. 
 
 Q. Indeed it isn't ; but what I am asking you is, whether there 
 is or has been any, except the two I have mentioned : first, the 
 stone, made in 1887; and second, the plate, made — A. That is 
 all there has been. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Was the stone changed from 
 time to time? A. We fixed the maps up, in the office, to suit 
 us. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That is, only for office use ? A. 
 No ; to send out. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did you send out 6,000 maps ? 
 A. We never sent out 6,000 maps in a bulk; we didn't change 
 6,000 maps, that I know of; I don't know that 6,000 were sent 
 out. They continually wrote for maps of the railroads of the 
 State ; they were all printed and all delivered ; and when they 
 wrote for maps, I think we wrote for maps ; when they would 
 write for reports, we would send out two or three to every 
 report. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — I may have misunderstood your 
 answer to a question asked by Mr. Corbin ? A. We tried to reg- 
 ulate the maps by our own process in the office. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did you have a new plate and 
 print from a new plate every year? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Well, then when you have a 
 number printed for the year 1894, you find out that you have got 
 to change those maps, do you not? A. Yes, sir; we try it; we 
 do the best we can. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Now, the State paid for how 
 many thousand last year, Mr. Corbin ? 
 Mr. Corbin — Last year, 3,500. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Do I understand that the office 
 changed 3,500 maps? A. No, I don't think they did, quite as 
 many as that, but we tried to change as many as we could. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Let me read from the report of 
 the State Board of Assessors — who gets these up ? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Who makes the changes ? ^. I do, 
 sir, with Mr. Harrison's help. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — With each one of these reports, 
 I understand, a map is furnished? A. It was not. 
 
JOHN T. VAN CLEEF. 667 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Well, the State paid for it all 
 the same. A. Of course they paid for it, but it didn't go out 
 with every report, because there were people sent for railroad 
 maps and didn't ask for reports. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The State paid for how many 
 maps? 
 
 Mr. Corbin— 41,000 altogether. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Last year they paid for 3,500. 
 A. That was the same limit of reports. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Now, you said that with this 
 report a map of the railroads of the State will accompany each 
 report ? A. Yes, that is true. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — ISTow, did you change the maps 
 for each report that was sent out? A. I am afraid I didn't, but 
 I tried to ; we tried to do that in every respect, but the requests 
 that we got would come more for maps than they would for 
 reports, and we would send out when we were requested; we 
 would send out three maps to one report ; for instance, a party 
 would ask us for a map, we would put in two ; our stock was 
 depleted immediately and we hadn't the maps to put in the 
 reports, but that didn't make any difference, because the people 
 that asked for maps evidently had the reports. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees)— About how many of those did 
 you send out; did you keep any record? A. Any quantity of 
 them. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Who was the custodian of the 
 maps? A. We were the custodian — the Board of Assessors; 
 we kept the account of the maps. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — But I understood they were 
 furnished to the State, and not to the State Board of Assessors. 
 A. We were better able to tell who should have the maps than 
 anybody else, and, during Mr. Ford's term of office, we kept the 
 maps in our office to distribute as they should be distributed, to 
 everybody that called upon us for maps. The fact must be borne 
 in mind that we have been to quite considerable expense in order 
 to produce this map, this hand-drawn map. 
 
 Q. Mr. Betts testified that he and you drew it. A. 1 think in 
 1887, when Senator Cattel and Senator Bettle suggested that we 
 should have a map to go with our report, Mr. Betts and myself 
 undertook to make it ; we were amateurs, but we felt a little 
 proud of the job and produced this. I don't know whether you 
 have examined it or not — and not only that but we have pro- 
 duced another one. 
 
668 JOHN T. VAN CLEEP. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Another map? A. Yee, sir; I 
 can send for it and show it to you. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — I mean in connection with the 
 reports ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Published and printed ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. For the coming year ? A. Yes, sir; not to be charged for. 
 
 Q. To cover the report of the coming year? A. Yes, sir; 
 more or less, to be a map in the office, railroad map of all the 
 railroads, on the scale of five miles to an inch. Along in 1888, 
 you know, we were trying to boom our Board a little ; you know 
 we engaged you as counsel. 
 
 Q. You are not quite right ; the Attorney-General engaged 
 me as counsel. A. The State engaged you as counsel while you 
 were Assemblyman ; you recollect that. 
 
 Q. Very well ? A. And we felt like booming our Board just 
 a little bit. 
 
 Q. I read from report of 1894, which has just come in. " The 
 plan followed in last year's report of grouping useful information 
 under the head of each railroad company with financial statistics, 
 &c., has always been carried out in this report, and a map of the 
 railroads of the State will accompany each report." "What 
 map does that refer to ? A. That is rather figurative, " accom- 
 pany each report." 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Who got up the report ? A. 1 
 did. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You are pretty near as bad as 
 McDonnell ? 
 
 Q. What map does that refer to ? A. 1 haven't the slightest 
 idea. 
 
 Q. Although you drew the report you can't tell what map you 
 referred to ? A. You must give me more time. 
 
 Q. This is for the report of the State Board of Assessors for 
 the year 1894, just now printed? A. That will be gratuitious. 
 
 Q. But what map does it refer to ? A. The map of the rail- 
 roads of the State. 
 
 Q. The same one we have seen ? A. Yes; and which we will 
 fix and send out to the patrons of the State, taxpayers of the 
 State, when they ask for the map, and they are asking every 
 day for it. 
 
 Q. By vouchers which I have offered in evidence here to-day 
 it appears that the State, in 1887, paid for 6,000 copies of this 
 map; in 1888, maps amounting to |1,125, which, at the same 
 rate as before, I assume was 4,500 maps ; the number isn't stated 
 in the bill; in 1889, 6,000 ; in 1890, 6,000 ; in 1891, 6,000, or, in 
 
JOHN T. VAN CLEEP. 669 
 
 all, 28,500 copies, previous to the year 1892, when the second 
 metal map was made. I^ow, where did those maps come from ? 
 A. Well, they came, I suppose, from the same source. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What was that source ? A. Probably 
 from the same source — an overplus of maps that we didn't send 
 out. 
 
 Q. But I understand you to say that that edition of these 
 maps was, as you recollect it, 10,000; Mr. Ingraham's testimony 
 is that it was 6,000. A. I think he is wrong. 
 
 Q. Well, assume that it is 10,000; here are 28,500. A. Yes; 
 it was distributed ; the price that we were to be paid was dis- 
 tributed. 
 
 9. No ; but these bills for four separate years, each year 
 charged for 6,000 maps, making in all 24,000, and for the year 
 1888 there is $1,125 more charged without statiug the number of 
 maps; but that would be, at the same rate, for 4,500; making 
 the total number — A Yes ; but I can't recollect the ins and 
 outs of the thing now; it is certainly — it must have been fur- 
 nished. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — What was the requisition of the State 
 Board of Assessors? A. For the same amount of the maps. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Mr. Corbin asks you to state, if 
 you can, from what source you derived this extra number of 
 maps; your recollection is that 10,000 were furnished you by the 
 Thomas & Wylie Co., but in the meantime you had furnished 
 several thousand more to the State and been paid for them ; 
 now, where did those extra maps come from? A. Well, I don't 
 know where they did come from. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — They didn't grow? A. They 
 must have been furnished or distributed. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — The gentleman who prepared this 
 map said this morning that there were six thousand copies ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Mr. Betts said he thought there was another edition of 
 2 000 ; he thought so ; Mr. Ingraham says he can find no record 
 of anything except the one edition ? ^. I can't state now. 
 
 Q. I will refresh your memory; these maps in 1887 and 
 1888 were billed to the State by Sinnickson Chew, of Cam- 
 den who printed the report of your Board the first year; he 
 added for 6,000 maps, $1,500; the second year he added simply 
 for maps, $1,125; in 1889 Murphy printed the report and added 
 6,000 maps, $1,800; in 1890 MacCrellish & Quigley printed the 
 report and added for 6,000 maps, $1,500 ; in 1891 John L. Murphy 
 printed it and added 6,000 maps and charged $1,540 ; those fig- 
 
670 JOHN T. VAN CLEEF. 
 
 ure up together 28,500 copies of the map; these printers — that 
 is, Mr. Chew and Mr. Quigley — have shown their vouchers here, 
 and say that the maps did not in fact pass through their hands at 
 all, but that they received your receipt as Secretary of the State 
 Board of Assessors certifying to the fact that the maps had been 
 received, and you then rendered your bill to them, which they 
 paid less 10 per cent., and Mr. Murphy's books — he didn't 
 testify, but his books show that substantially the same arrange- 
 ment passed through his hands. Now, Mr. Chew swore that 
 the maps went direct from the publisher to the binder, and they 
 both referred to you. Didn't you personally know all about this 
 subject so far as anybody knew anything about it; is there any- 
 body else who got any maps but you? A. No, sir; there is no- 
 body else that knows anything about it but myself. 
 
 Q. Well, how can you account, previous to 1892, for so great 
 a number as 28,500 maps ? J.. I don't account for it. 
 
 §. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You got paid for them? A. 
 Well, I got paid for all that I ordered and all that were furnished 
 the State. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — But then, according to your own 
 statement, you haven't accounted for all that you have been paid 
 for ? J.. I think I could account for it if I had — 
 
 Q. You were not present this morning, but Mr. Ingraham, the 
 manager of Thomas & "Wylie, testifies that from an examina- 
 tion of their books they can find — A. They had 8,000 or 
 10,000, I think. 
 
 Q_. He testifies that from the examination of their books they 
 can find no record of any order for maps from that stone except- 
 ing the first order, which he says was 6,000, and moreover he 
 has no recollection of any ever having been ordered, and that 
 the stone is in their possession ; that is the testimony that is 
 before us. T now call your attention to the map of 1892 ; you 
 billed 6,000 of those through MacCrellish & Quigley in the same 
 manner in 1892 ; 3,000 through John L. Murphy in 1893 ; 3,500 
 through MacCrellish & Quigley in 1894, that was last year, 
 making of those maps 12,500. Now, can you not remember who 
 made those maps? A. I had them made, sir ; I furnished the 
 maps to the State. 
 
 Q. I see no imprint upon them ; who printed them ? A. 
 Those were my own maps; I furnished the State with those 
 maps. 
 
 Q. ^By Chairman Voorhees) — He asks you who printed them. 
 A. Well, I would rather not answer that question. 
 
 §. (By Chairman Voorhees)^ — It will not criminate you ; it 
 
JOHN T. VAN CLEEF. 671 
 
 will not incriminate anybody; if counsel insists on an answer, I 
 think the Committee will direct the witness to answer. A. It is 
 a question of price; it is a question of every thin sj to me; it is 
 a question of whether I have done right or wrong. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — And by refusing to answer, you 
 refuse to disclose whether you have done right or wrong; is that 
 the position you want to take? A. I have answered the ques- 
 tion ; I say that I will not answer that question. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You say you will not. Colonel ? 
 A. I say I don't care to answer that question. 
 
 Q, Francis & Loutrel furnished some of them at least, didn't 
 they ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They furnished you on April 23d, 1894, 2,000, did they 
 not? A. I don't remember. 
 
 Q. Of which 1,000 was colored and 1,000 was not colored ; do 
 you recollect whether that is so? A. 1 don't recollect the 
 amounts ; they did furnish me with something. 
 
 Q. Were those the first that you had from that plate ? A. I 
 don't recollect ; I think that it wasn't the first. 
 
 Q. Weren't 2,000 furnished that day for which the bill was 
 $112.50? A. The maps were furnished by him; I don't recol- 
 lect what the price was ; they were furnished by him. Who made 
 our report at this date ? 
 
 Q. All there is in the report about it is, " Map of the railroads 
 of New Jersey, which accompanied the report of last year have 
 been so much in demand that the Board has concluded to adopt 
 the same with some improvements." A. Reports for that year ? 
 
 Q. The report for 1892 was furnished by John L. Murphy. 
 Mr. Chew, I understand, this morning testified, or rather showed 
 the Committee the stub of a check for $575 in 1890 which he said 
 was for these maps; it was to F. Heppenheimer's Sons, who, he 
 said, made them. I asked him whether he must not be mis- 
 taken about that, as I saw he did not print the report that year. 
 He insisted that he was right. Did they make them ? A. I will 
 refuse to answer that question, because I have no business to get 
 Mr. Heppenheimer into this thing at all. I would say that Mr. 
 Heppenheimer had nothing to do with the maps. 
 
 Q. I have insisted with Mr. Chew that he must have been 
 mistaken, because I see he did not print the report. Did you 
 get any more of them except the 2,000 from Francis & Loutrel 
 or anybody? A. Yes, sir; I did. 
 
 Q. How many more ? A. Those that I furnished to the State, 
 I have told you, sir, just exactly how many were furnished to the 
 State, 
 
672 JOHN T. VAN CLEEF. 
 
 Q. I do not think you have. How many have you furnished 
 to the State from the metal plate ? A. Just as many &h the 
 report called for. 
 
 Q. Have you no invoices or any other record which will tell 
 how many you have obtained and furnished to the State ? A. 
 None that I have to produce, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What was that answer ? A. None 
 that I Lave to produce. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What do you mean by that? A. I 
 mean I have no invoices ; I have no invoices at all. 
 
 Q. Mr. Van Cleef, here for a period of eight years, these pub- 
 liohers have testified that although they put in these bills for 
 these maps, amounting in all to 41,000 maps, that they never 
 delivered any of them — they do say that you gave them some, 
 Mr. Chew said, to take home — A. A great many of them have 
 taken them home. 
 
 Q. That although they passed through their books and were 
 by them billed to the State, they say that they did not, in fact, 
 have anything to do with the publication or furnishing of the 
 maps ; that they had your receipt as clerk of the Board that they 
 were delivered here, and they showed their checks paying you 
 personally for the maps. Now you observe that that throws the 
 whole burden of the matter upon your shoulders by their testi- 
 mony. Why do you object to telling the Committee frankly from 
 whom and when you obtained these maps, how many you got and 
 what you paid for them and showing your vouchers ? A. Because 
 I haven't got any vouchers. 
 
 Q. Were bills never rendered to you for these maps? A. 
 Another objection I have is, that I haven't had the proper time; 
 I haven't been approached properly in regard to the matter ; I 
 would come to the Committee and show them all the facts in the 
 case. 
 
 Q. Would you like to have further time to produce them ? A. 
 No, sir ; not publicly ; I am here to answer all questions now. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — What Mr. Corbin wants to know is the 
 fact that you furnished 41,000 to the State? A. I did; I fur- 
 nished all the maps that were billed to the State. 
 
 Q. Then if you did, how can you explain where the 28,500 
 came from ; from that stone which you charge here ? J.. I don't 
 know that that is in evidence. 
 
 Q. It is in evidence ; I will give you the vouchers if you desire 
 to see them ; the first one is Sinnickson Chew's voucher of 1887? 
 A. Was Sinnickson Chew pa,id direct ? 
 
JOHN T. VAN CLEEF. 673 
 
 Q. He was paid direct by the State, yes ; all of them were ; 
 here ie the first one for 1887 ; here is the second one, Sinnickson 
 Ohew, for 1888; those that follow are by Murphy and Messrs. 
 MacCrellish & Quigley, one for each year. A. Didn't they testify 
 how they got the maps? 
 
 Q. They testified that the maps never passed through their 
 hands. A. They certainly must have passed through their hands ; 
 I furnished the maps. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — While they are looking for these 
 papers, won't you ask the witness why he, as an 
 employe of the State, or a State officer, or whatever 
 you call it, sold the State 41,000 maps on his own 
 account, without vouchers or anything of the kind ? 
 
 Witness — Yes, sir; I will answer that quastion. I 
 
 was employed by the State Board of Assessors, Senator, 
 
 to be their secretary, in 1884. We passed through a 
 
 great deal of trouble in getting our law in working 
 
 order, and it was my place, as secretary of that Board, 
 
 to boom that Board just as much as I could. Senator 
 
 Cattell and Senator Bettle were members of the Board, 
 
 and they asked me if I would not prepare a map, which 
 
 I did ; I started at the very beginning, and I spent a 
 
 year and a half on this very map. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Weren't you paid by the St^te a 
 
 salary for this work? A. Yes, sir; $1,000 a year, on the start. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You were willing to work for the 
 
 salary they gave you? A. Yes, sir; because they promised me 
 
 more ; because they promised that I would have more. I have 
 
 devoted eleven years of my life to the State Board of Assessors' 
 
 work, and have brought it up to the perfection to which it is 
 
 now, and I have very little to say in that regard, because I don't 
 
 want to take any credit for it at all. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — That is not the point ; the point is, 
 why did you buy these goods and make a profit out of them 
 when you were employed by the State ? A. Why does anybody 
 
 do that? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham)— That is it. Why do they? A. 
 The map — why, man, I worked hard for it; I worked a year and 
 a half on the original ; if you have any idea what the work is, if I 
 can only send for another map — 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — But what right had you, in the 
 employ of the State, to be selling to the State ? A. Say that I 
 have no right. 
 
 43 SH 
 
674 JOHN T. VAN CLEEF. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — You were an employe of the State, 
 and your time was the State's, and not your own ? A. Yes, and 
 80 are we all at those troublesome times, so we were all employed 
 by the State, Mr. Corbin himself was employed by the State at 
 that time and helped us and aided us and did all he could in 
 behalf of the State Board of Assessors. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — And it is only fair to say that 
 the State got good services for small compensation. A. I 
 acknowledge that I was paid very small compensation ; I tried to 
 get my salary up as nearly as I could what I thought was right 
 and proper. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You said you didn't want to dis- 
 close names. Do you say you got a profit out of it personally ? 
 A. Yes, I did ; there is no question about that; I have made a 
 profit out of it ; I have made a profit out of more than I have 
 been asked for this afternoon ; I made a profit on affidavits that 
 have been sent down to me by the Attorney- General in miscel- 
 laneous corporation matters, simply sent down to me because I 
 looked after the miscellaneous corporation matters ; I have been 
 paid certiorari fees simply because I look after the railroad inter- 
 ests where the Attorney- General has not been able to do it. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Don't those fees belong to the 
 State? A. No, sir; they do not; they are under our law pay- 
 able to the Secretary of the State Board of Assessors. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Under what law ? A. Under 
 the law of 1888 ; and I have also been paid — let us be honest — 
 I have also been paid for actual services rendered professionally 
 in litigated cases that occurred by reason of our Board assessing 
 where a local board had assessed ; the Attorney-General has 
 given me fees in those cases, and he has always been very glad 
 to do it — always been very glad to help me to earn a fee outside 
 of my salary. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That is entirely foreign to this 
 matter. A. Certainly, sir ; there is a great deal that can be said 
 that is germain to this matter as well, which I do not propose to 
 state now ; I can't do it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — If you will permit me, I think with- 
 out venturing an opinion further than this, that when the counsel 
 of this Committee asked you where and how many maps — where 
 you procured them, and how many, I will say this, that it leaves 
 you in an exceedingly bad position in the community without 
 answering that question. A. I will say this, that I have ren- 
 dered quid pro quo to the State of New Jersey for all the services 
 
JOHN T. VAN CLEEf. 675 
 
 that I have rendered ; I have rendered everything right straight 
 up to the handle, and done the best I could for eleven years. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Then why hesitate to disclose these 
 tacts that the Committee ask you ; it is out of kindness to you 
 that they ask you; it leaves you in a position that I wouldn't 
 like to be left in. A. I have got to be left in that position; I 
 take the onus on my own shoulders. 
 
 Q. lu response to the suggestion that you made in regard to 
 the way these were furnished, I show you exhibits in the case 
 produced by Mr. Quigley, being, first the bill of 1890 by you 
 from MacCrellish & Quigley for $1,350, receipted with the follow- 
 ing on the bottom : " Above maps received from MacCrellish & 
 Quigley. John T. Van Cleef, Secretary State Board of Asses- 
 sors," with a check paying for them. They all seem to have 
 gone through practically the same method of delivery. You 
 recall these receipts, do you- not ? A. I haven't even seen them. 
 
 Q. Look at them. You remember, then, the way the matter 
 was done with the publishers ; that they did not, as you suggested, 
 really pass through their hands. A. They passed through the 
 publishers' hands, every one of them. Haven't you the receipts 
 there ? 
 
 Q, They testified that they did not ; your receipt is that " the 
 above maps have been received ; John T. Vart Cleef, Secretary 
 State Board of Assessors?" A. Wouldn't it be much better for 
 me to make a case for myself? 
 
 Q. Certainly ? A. Do you want me to answer anything with- 
 out making any case. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — They asked you a moment ago 
 whether you wanted to go ahead with the examination, and you 
 said you wanted to be examined here now? A. I do want to be 
 asked all that is within reason. 
 
 Senator Daly — I think the Committee might relieve 
 him and let the matter lie over. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Personally I am quite willing to do that ; 
 but I understood the Colonel to say that he was ready 
 to answer any question now. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And preferred to do it now. 
 
 Q. You may do as you please ; if you prefer to have me stop 
 at this point, and pursue it later — make any further explanation 
 you like ; I wouldn't certainly deprive you of any time to consider 
 the matter? A. All right, sir ; that is really an answer to your ques- 
 tion, so far as the handling of the maps was concerned ; the only 
 thing is that I don't know whether that is " above maps received 
 from MacCrellish & Quigley "—well, now, MacCrellish & Quig- 
 
676 SINNIOKSON CHEW. 
 
 ley don't know whether they received them or not, because they 
 came direct from the printer. 
 
 Adjourned until Tuesday, April 30, 1895, at 10 A. M., State 
 House, Trenton, N. J. 
 
 April 30, 1895, 10 A. M. 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Chairman, at the last meeting of the 
 Committee there was under examination the matter of 
 certain expenditures of the State Board of Assessors, 
 and particularly the expenditures with reference to cer- 
 tain maps supposed to have been furnished to the State 
 to accompany the report of the Board. I wish to offer 
 some further testimony on that subject. And first, I 
 will offer the duplicate invoice produced last week by 
 Mr. Ingraham, but not then formally offered in evi- 
 dence, for the six thousand maps furnished by the 
 Thomas Wylie Company to Messrs. Van Cleef and Betts 
 on November 9, 1887. The charge is six thousand 
 maps, $650, and I ask that this duplicate invoice be 
 marked for identification " Exhibit 227." 
 
 SiNNiCKSoN Chew, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. When you were upon the stand last week you showed an 
 item in your cash book, at page 38, dated September 9th, 1890, 
 whereby you credited F. Heppenheimer's Sons for printing maps 
 of K. Com., |575 ; you also showed a letter from Messrs. F. 
 Heppenheimer's Sons, dated September 10th, 1890, acknowledg- 
 ing your check for the payment of their bill April 23d, 1890 ; and 
 you also showed the ledger account of the same transaction. You 
 then said that this item referred to maps for State Board of 
 Assessors? A. Yes, sir; but I was mistaken. 
 
 Q. Have you since that investigated that matter further ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What have you to say now? A. That item was for maps 
 furnished the Riparian Commissioners, and not the State Board 
 of Assessors. 
 
 Q. I show you duplicate invoice from F. Heppenheimer's Sons. 
 Did you obtain that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. When ? A. Last Thursday, I think it was. 
 
 q. For $575? A. Yes, sir. 
 
SINNICKSON CHEW. 677 
 
 Q. Then these entries refer to these Eiparian Coramissionera' 
 maps ? A. Yes, sir ; they have no reference to the State Board 
 of Assessors whatever. 
 
 Q, You were in error in regard to that ? A. Yes, sir ; that 
 transaction had entirely passed out of my mind. 
 
 The duplicate invoice offered in evidence and marked 
 " Exhibit 228." 
 
 Q,. You showed your stub book and check No. 1414, dated 
 September 9, 1890, to F. Heppenheimer's Sons, for $575. Have 
 you found the check? A. No, sir; I didn't find the check. 
 
 Q. Can't you find it? A. No, sir; here is a memorandum in 
 my check book, $575. 
 
 q. That is the stub? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you got the check? A. No, sir; I can't find the 
 check. 
 
 Q. Last week you testified with reference to your furnishing 
 the maps. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. First you furnished six thousand upon your voucher for 
 $1,500? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And of that you paid $1,350 to Van Cleef ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the next year you got $1,125 from the State for, as we 
 suppose, 4,500 maps, and you turned that over, less 10 per cent., 
 to Mr. Yan Cleef ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You produced checks for all of these payments to Mr. Van 
 Cleef except $500 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. Have you discovered anything which shows how you paid 
 him that $500? A. Yes; I have three letters from Mr. Van 
 Cleef; I will read them. 
 
 Q. Are these the letters? A. Yes, sir. "Trenton, July 12, 
 1887. S. Chew, Esq.: Dear Sir — I have forgotten whether or 
 not I sent you a receipt for your check for $350 for map account. 
 If not, please consider this as a receipt for the same. Yours 
 truly, John Van Cleef, Secretary." 
 
 Q. That is the acknowledgment of the three hundred and fifty 
 dollar check which you produced ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Letter offered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 229." 
 
 A. "Trenton, July 26th, 1887. S. Chew, Esq., Dear Sir: 
 Instead of sending me your check, please endorse the enclosed 
 check and mail it to me as soon as possible. Yours with respect, 
 John T. Van Cleef" That five hundred dollar check I showed 
 by ray cash book. 
 
 Q. That is the check which I produced with your endorsement 
 and Mr. Van Cleef 's endorsement last week, the State's check, 
 wasn't it? A. 1 don't know how that was. 
 
678 JOHN L. MUEPHY. 
 
 Q_. Don't you remember that I produced last week a State's 
 check to your order for $500, with your endosement on it and 
 Mr. Van Cleef's endorsement on it? A. You did, 
 
 Q. This letter refers to that, does it not 1 A.\ suppose that 
 is it. 
 
 Letter marked " Exhibit 230." 
 
 A. "Trenton, N. J., November 2d, 1887. S. Chew, Dfear 
 Sir : Your favor of November 1st, 1887, is received, together 
 with your check for |500, being last payment on account of the 
 maps. Please accept my thanks for your promptness and kind- 
 ness in the matter. Yours truly, John T. Van Cleef." I did not 
 send him a check. 
 
 Letter offered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 231." 
 
 John L. Murphy, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You reside in Trenton ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And are a printer ? I am. 
 
 Q. You sent me certain of your books last week showing your 
 account against the State for printing the State Board of Asses- 
 sors' Report for three years? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Upon your bills there were items for maps for the State 
 Board of Assessors ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did those maps actually pass through your hands ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Who asked you to put the item upon your bills ? A. The 
 State Board of Assessors. 
 
 Q. Who spoke for them? A. I think Alexander G. Cattell. 
 
 Q. That was the first time you printed the report? A. In 
 1889. 
 
 Q. What directions did he give you in reference to it? A. 
 Well, in speaking about the map he said there would be a map ; 
 I contracted to print the report. 
 
 Q. Your contract covered no map? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. After you had taken the contract to print the report, he 
 spoke of this matter of maps ? A. Our contract covered every- 
 thing that was in the books, but I didn't know there was any 
 maps, because there was none came with the copy, but the book 
 was half done and Mr. Cattell told me they were going to have 
 a map; they told me when the book was half done that they 
 were going to have a map to go in it when the map was done ; 
 it wasn't given to me to put in, because they didn't want to send 
 them out with all the books, but to send them out separately and 
 they would put them in in their own office. 
 
JOHN L. MUEPHY. 679 
 
 Q. So that you didn't put them in, as a matter of fact? A. 
 No ; I didn't put them in ; nor I didn't charge for it. 
 
 Q,. Who told you how much to charge for the 6,000 maps ? 
 A. I don't remember now. 
 
 §. Your bill has an item ? A. They rendered me the same 
 bill. 
 
 Q,. Who rendered you a bill for the maps ? ^4. I don't know 
 what individual, but I presume my conversation was generally 
 with Mr. Settle and Mr. Cattell. 
 
 Q. It was either Van Cleef or Van Cleef and Betts, wasn't it? 
 A. They, 1 understood, got up the map. 
 
 Q. They rendered you a bill, did they not? A. I don't know 
 whether they did, individually. 
 
 Q. Have you got the bill which was rendered to you ? A. \ 
 <]on't know ; I haven't looked for it. 
 
 Q. Who handed you the bill ? J.. I don't know. 
 
 §. You printed the report in 1889; it was the report of 1888 ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In your bill to the State you put in this item of six thou- 
 sand maps, $1,800 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who gave you the data from which to make up that item ? 
 A. I don't think I could tell you now ; it came through the office 
 of the Board of Assessors ; I don't know the individual. 
 
 q. Well, your bill to the State was paid at $1,800 ? A. Yes 
 sir. 
 
 q. You deducted 10 per cent., did you not, and paid over the 
 balance, $1,620? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To whoever furnished the maps ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you check as president of the John L. Murphy 
 Publishing Company, No. 3398, dated March 21, 1889, for 
 $1,620, drawn upon the Mechanic's National Bank to the order 
 of John T. Van Cleef. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. By him endorsed. Is that the check which paid for the 
 mips ? A. That is my signature. 
 
 Q. That doesn't quite answer the question. Is that the check 
 which paid for the maps. A. I presume it is; I have had no 
 other dealings with him. 
 
 Q. Again in 1891 you printed the report for the State Board of 
 Assessors, did you not? A. That was for 1890. 
 
 §. Which was the report for 1890? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your total bill appears to have been $3,352.63, of which 
 $1,540 was for maps and envelopes, $1,500 being for maps, $40 
 for envelopes ; who asked you to add the maps to your bill that 
 vear? A. I presume the same parties; I don't remember now. 
 
680 JOHN L. MURPHY. 
 
 Q. And you paid for them the same way? A. Yes, sir: the- 
 same percentage was taken off. 
 
 <^. I show you check No. 4095, dated March 5th, 1891, drawn 
 on the Mechanics' National Bank, to the order of John T. Van 
 Cleef, $1,350, signed by you as president and endorsed " John T. 
 Van Cleef." Is that the check which paid for the maps that year ? 
 A. I presume it is; I have it so entered on my check book. 
 
 Two checks offered in evidence and marked " Ex- 
 hibits 232 and 233." 
 
 Q. With whom did you make the arrangement that you were 
 to deduct 10 per cent, of the price of the maps 1 A. \ think 
 Mr. Van Cleef told me ; I asked the Board for the map ; I 
 thought I ought to have it because it belonged to the report, to 
 print, and they said they were getting Mr. Van Cleef to get it up. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That was the first time ? A. That 
 was the first time. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And nothing after that — not the 
 second year, but the first ? A. The one map was continuous — 
 right along without alterations; I never seen the stone, never 
 seen the maps; I have got some of them after they were printed. 
 
 Q. Never saw the stone or the maps ? A. Not until after they 
 were printed. 
 
 §. In bidding for this work, did you count upon this as an 
 item that you could expect to receive ? A. Well, I didn't know 
 what to count on until I got the bill ; when we take a report, we 
 take the previous year's report and go by that. 
 
 Q. But you made no estimate as to what the map would cost, 
 and, iu fact, had nothing to do with the map more than you have 
 stated here ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — Didn't you know when the second 
 report was printed what trade discount would be allowed you on 
 those maps? A. I presume I did; I generally watch those 
 things and look after them. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I wish to call the attention of the Com- 
 mittee to this voucher. I think, Mr. Murphy, that is 
 all that I require now. 
 
 Examined by Chairman Voorhees. 
 
 Q. You were summoned to appear before this Committee last 
 Tuesday? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you any excuse to give why you didn't come ? A. 
 Yes, sir ; I had made an arrangement to be in Philadelphia at 
 one o'clock the next day, and I received that summons at tea 
 time. After that I came up here at ten o'clock and waited for 
 
JOHN L. MDRPHY. 681 
 
 the Committoe to get in session, and I met you in the corridor 
 and told you what I had, and that was all I could say, and I de- 
 livered them to you ; I told you that I was going, and you said 
 you were going in to see Mr. Corbin, and while you were going 
 in I looked at my watch and saw that it was time to go to the 
 depot ; I wanted to take the 11.10 train ; T was then sent for, and 
 when I got to the office I called you up on the telephone and told 
 you my reasons for going, and that you could have me at any 
 other time, and you said if I would come up you would put me 
 on the stand and keep me only five minutes, and I said I wanted 
 to catch the 11:37, and I came up here and saw Mr. Betts on the 
 stand, and I went out again. 
 
 Q. Do you consider your engagements of more importance 
 than the subpoena of this Committee? A. I do; I consider that 
 was a very important engagement ; I had to have paper to run 
 my paper this week. 
 
 Q. Do you consider that of more importance than to observe 
 the commands of this subpoena ? A. Well, yes, I do; I had made 
 this arrangement; it was an important engagement that I had 
 made, and I wanted to be there. 
 
 Q. The fact that you come here to-day and testified is some- 
 what of an excuse, and in your favor. A. I thought that I had 
 delivered everything that you wanted, anyhow. 
 
 Q. The Committee are very anxious to know if you intended 
 any disrespect to them in disobeying this subpoena ? A. No ; if 
 I had I would have gone off and wouldn't have come to see you. 
 Chairman Voorhees — Your excuse will be accepted. 
 It is not a very satisfactory one, but we feel that your 
 presence here to-day and your willingness to testify is 
 very much in your favor ; but you can see, as an intelli- 
 gent man, if every one who is subpoenaed to appear be- 
 fore this Committee regards his own private engage- 
 ments as of much more importance than the commands 
 of the subpoena, the Committee would be without wit- 
 nesses. It is not the desire of the Committee, or of 
 its counsel, to unduly annoy any one, and they try to 
 consult the engagements of those who are to appear 
 before them, but it must be understood, no matter who 
 is subpoenaed, that the subpoena is to be obeyed. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to call the attention of the Com- 
 mittee to this last voucher of Mr. Murphy's, to which 
 he has referred in his testimony, being voucher No. 
 2924, of June, 1891, charged to the printing account. 
 It is the bill of the Murphy Publishing Company for 
 
682 JOHN L. MUKPHY. 
 
 various State reports, that company being the State 
 printer for that year, or having the contract for the 
 State reports of the year, among others this contract for 
 the Eeport of the State Board of Assessors; the last 
 item in that part of the bill is this : " Six thousand 
 maps, $1,500." Appended to this voucher I find this 
 report by Mr. Charles Bechtel, the expert printer who 
 examines all these bills for the State and counts the 
 the work: "I certify that I have examined the within 
 bills, and find the same correct as per contract, except 
 as follows : There is no contract for furnishing clasps 
 or maps in the Report of the State Board of Assessors, 
 amounting to — clasps, |40 ; maps, $1,500 ; total, $1,540. 
 E'o contract for three maps in Report of the Riparian 
 Commissioners, amounting to $265.62; no contract for 
 maps in the Report of the State Geologist, amounting 
 to $2,495.82 ; making a total of $4,301.44. I also report 
 that the above maps were not printed in the State of 
 l^ew Jersey, as required by the contract. Charles J. 
 Bechtel." Below is the ti)llowing : '' Trenton, N. J., 
 June 16, 1891 "—this is by the Comptroller. " Upon 
 investigation of the above, I find that the maps printed 
 for the Report of the State Geologist and of the Riparian 
 Commission were included in copy of said reports sub- 
 mitted to the Committee on Printing, and were there- 
 fore open to the inspection of bidders. With reference 
 to the fact that said maps were not printed in the State 
 of New Jersey, Mr. Murphy makes the statement that 
 he knew of no printer or lithographer in the State at the 
 time of the execution of the work and could not make 
 said maps, I therefore allowed said claims. As these 
 facts do not apply to the work performed for the State 
 Board of Assessors, I have not allowed the same under 
 the circumstances. William C. H., Comptroller." That 
 is the voucher of the Board I have mentioned. I offer it 
 in evidence. Marked " Exhibit 234." 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand that your last state- 
 ment is that he didn't approve of the bill for the maps 
 lor the State Board of Assessors ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — He disallowed it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And yet it was paid ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — On the same day the entire voucher for 
 the same items were put in by Murphy & Co., as fol- 
 lows : "June 1, 1891, State of New Jersey to John 
 
CYRUS P. LOUTEELL. 683 
 
 L. Murphy Pablishing Company. Six thousand maps 
 furnished State Board of Aseessors, $1,500. One thous- 
 and clasp envelopes furnished the State Board of Aeses- 
 sors, $40 — $1,540." It was disallowed in the printing 
 bill, but a separate bill was put in for it and it was paid 
 under another heading. "Approved, B. W. Spencer, 
 President State Board of Assessors. Correct. Reported 
 for $1,640. F. H. Wismer, Oliver Kelley, audit." This 
 bill is sworn to, and was paid by warrant upon the 
 treasury. 
 
 I have called the Committee's attention to this. The 
 Comptroller disallowed it in the printing account; he 
 allowed it and charged it to the State Board of Asses- 
 sors; that is the distinction, and you will find it not 
 under the printing account, as most of the other maps 
 are charged, but you will find it charged directly to the 
 State Board of Assessors. 
 
 Cyrus F. Loutbell, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. "Where do you reside? A. South Orange, N. J. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Stationer and printer. 
 
 Q. What is the concern with which you are connected? A. 
 At present Francis & Loutrell Company. 
 
 Q. The Francis & Loutrell Company is a corporation? A. 
 That is a corporation. 
 
 Q. And that concern was formerly a firm ? A. That was for- 
 merly a firm of Francis & Loutrell. 
 
 Q. Where is the business conducted? A. At present, 14 
 Vesey Street. 
 
 Q. In the city of New York? A. Yes, sir; it is a 'Sew Jersey 
 corporation of course. 
 
 Q. Did your firm, and afterwards your corporation, print a map 
 of the railroads of New Jersey? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you "Exhibits 209 and 210," being printed map 
 entitled " Map of the Eailroads of New Jersey," the first dated 
 April, 1893 4, the second, April, 1894-5. Did your firm print 
 these maps? A. I should say yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why did you not put the imprint of your house upon them ? 
 A. We never do on a thing of that kind ; if we got up the plate 
 and everything of that kind, we would have done so. 
 
 Q. Did you not get up the plate in this case ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you the plate in your possession ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
684 CYEUS F. LOUTEELL. 
 
 Q. When did it come to you? A. I say yes — I suppose it is 
 there. 
 
 Q. When did it come to your possession ? A. About 1892. 
 
 Q. Who brought it to you? A. That I can't say, not knowing. 
 
 Q. Who ordered you to print the maps from it? A. Col. 
 Van Gleef. 
 
 Q. Have you your books here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Please refer to your order book M. M., page 179. What is 
 the date of the item you find there? A. May 25tb, 1892. 
 
 Q. Read the item? A. " May 25, 1892. State Board of As- 
 sessors of the State of New Jersey, one thousand maps." 
 
 Q. Please refer to your order book NN, page 57 ; have you an 
 item there? A. Yes, sir ; "August 16, 1893. State Board of 
 Assessors of New Jersey, 500 maps, colored ; 500 maps, not 
 colored," and in the margin is " 500 colored and 100 plain to Col. 
 John T. Van Cleef ; keep 400 plain in our store awaiting direc- 
 tions." 
 
 Q. Are those 400 plain still in your store? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Please refer to page 157 of this order book and read the 
 item? A. "April 7, 1894. State Board of Assessors, Tranton, 
 N. J., 1,000 railroad maps, colored," in the margin, "paper 
 ordered April 7, from B. 0. Mejers." 
 
 Q. Please refer to page 165 of this same book ; have you an 
 item there? A. Yes, sir; "April 23, 1894. State Board of As- 
 sessors, Trenton, N. J., 1,000 maps, colored;" in the margin, 
 " paper ordered." 
 
 Q. Those items together make 4,000 maps. Are those all the 
 maps that you have furnished, either through your firm or your 
 corporation? A. Yes, sir; that is all. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— Since when? A. Since 1892. 
 
 Q. Did you ever furnish any before from this plate ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. It was all you have ever furnished? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the first lot you furnished was in May, 1892, or June? 
 A. Yes, sir; they were charged up June 10th, I think. 
 
 Q. Please refer to your day book, June 10th, 1892. 
 
 Senator Daly — Under what account was that paid — 
 printing account? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No bill came to the State for it at all. 
 
 A. The bill, "State Board of Assessors, Trenton, N. J., 1,000 
 maps State of New Jersey, printed, $48.25 ; colored above maps, 
 $19.50; $67.75." 
 
 Q. Please refer to your day book, September 8th, 1893, page 
 
CYEUS F. LOUTRELL. 685 
 
 112. A. " State Board of Assessors, 1,000 railroad maps printed, 
 $48.25; coloring 500 above, $9.75; total, $58." 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That is for one thousand maps? A. 
 Yes, sir; 100 plain and 500 colored, sent to Col. John T. Van 
 Cleel; 400 remaining in the store. 
 
 Q. Does that 400 still remain with you? A. Yes, sir; that is 
 the 400 you asked about before. 
 
 Q. That is the same 400 referred to in the order book ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now refer to your day book, April 23d, 1894, Francis & 
 Loutrell Company. A. Page 369, "April 23d, 1894 ; 1,000 rail- 
 road maps, State of New Jersey, printed, colored, $48.25, color- 
 ing, $19.50, making $67.75." That is the total bill. 
 
 Q. Now, of that order are any of those maps still at your 
 place; how many have you on hand of that year? A. I have 
 1,400 maps on hand. 
 
 Q. One thousand is out of this last order ? A. Yes, sir ; one 
 thousand charged to Colonel Van Cleef . 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You printed 4,000, but you still 
 have on hand 1,400 now, making 2,600 delivered? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Turn to your ledger showing the first account of the State 
 Board of Assessors. A. Ledger O, page 1511, State Board of 
 Assessors, printing, N. J. — this come from page 1900 — I don't 
 know whether there were any maps in that or not. This is the 
 proper page. One thousand railroad maps, $48.25 ; coloring do. 
 $19.50, June 10th, 1892. 
 
 Q. Was this item afterwards transferred from the State Board 
 of Assessors to some other account? A. I think it was, sir. This 
 will goto Ledger P, page 1724; on October 8th, 1892, it was 
 transferred to Col. John T. Van Cleef. 
 
 Q. When was that transferred to his account? A. I can't tell 
 you that, because I don't know. 
 
 Q. And are the other charges that you have mentioned en- 
 tered here to the State Board of Assessors ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are the charges of 1894 here on this account? A. No; 
 September 8, 1893, is on this account. 
 
 Q. But where is the account of April, 1894? A. That is in 
 another ledger, Francis & Loutrell Company ledger, page 1710. 
 
 Q. Is the item of April, 1894, for maps charged to the State 
 Board of Assessors? A. April 23, 1894, 1,000 railroad maps, 
 $48.25 ; 1,000 railroad maps, $44.75 ; billed at $93. 
 
 Q. There is something therefor coloring? A. Coloring do., 
 $19.50. 
 
 Q. Has that bill been paid? A. $50 paid on account. 
 
686 CYRUS F. LOUTRKLL. 
 
 Q. T see you have sundry other items he- e against the State 
 Board of Assessors for stationery, &c. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you render these bills directly to the State, or to any in- 
 dividual ? A. Eight to the State. 
 
 Q. And they are paid directly by the State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The matter of maps, then, is exceptional? A. The matter 
 of the maps I couldn't tell you how they vs^ere paid. 
 
 Q. But this has never been billed to the State by your con- 
 cern? A. ISTot except this lot. 
 
 Q. Have these been billed ? A. Yes, sir; those are billed to 
 the State Board of Assessors; the bill was sent in for them to 
 the State Board. 
 
 Q. Who paid $50 on account? A. I couldn't tell you, because 
 the amount came through the State Board of Assessors. 
 
 Q. When was the |50 paid, as shown by your ledger? A. 
 November 28tb, 1894. 
 
 Q. And the State Board of Assessors then owes you the re. 
 mainder? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is the balance? A. That would be the balance, 
 $71.78. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I would like to know whether the 
 State Board of Assessors owe Francis & Loutrell Company this 
 balance, or whether Mr. John T. Van Cleef owes it? A. Well, 
 that I can't answer, for the simple reason we charge them up the 
 way Colonel Van Cleef told us to ; if he said charge them to the 
 State Board of Assessors we did so ; I can't tell any more than 
 that. 
 
 Q. All these maps, then, which you have furnished were origi- 
 nally charged then on your books to the State Board of Asses- 
 sors ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And afterwards one item of 1892 was transferred to Col- 
 Van Cleef 's private account? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. But all the rest of this open account still stands on your 
 books to the State Board of Assessors ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And have you had a sheet drawn off, a transcript of your 
 ledger, showing the map dealings? A. Yes, sir; I have. 
 
 Q. And this is a correct transcript of your ledger ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; so the bookkeeper has sworn to. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would like to have this left and marked 
 for identification, so that the Colonel may take his 
 books ; it has appended to it the affidavit of the 
 Treasurer, also, that it is a correct transcript. Same is 
 marked " Exhibit 236." 
 
CYRUS F. I.OTJTRELL. 687 
 
 State Board of Assessors,. Trenton, N. J., in account 
 with Francis & Loutrell : 
 1892. 
 
 June 10. To 1,000 Railroad maps $48 25 
 
 To coloring 1,000 Railroad maps... 19 50 
 1893. 
 
 Sept. 8. To 1,000 Railroad maps 48 25 
 
 To coloring 500 Railroad maps 9 75 
 
 $125 75 
 1892. 
 Oct. 8. By charge of June 10, 1892, trans- 
 ferred to the account of Col. Yan 
 Cleef, the charge having been 
 erroneously made against the 
 
 State Board of Assessors 67 75 
 
 1893. 
 Dec. 27. By cash |58 00 
 
 $125 75 
 
 Col. John T. Van Cleef, in account with Francis & 
 Loutrell : 
 
 1892. 
 
 June 10. To 1,000 Railroad maps $48 25 
 
 To coloring ditto 19 50 
 
 $67 "75 
 1893. 
 March 8. By cash $67-75 
 
 $67 75 
 
 State Board of Assessors, Trenton, N. J., in account 
 with Francis & Loutrell Co.: 
 
 1894. 
 
 April 23. To 2,000 Railroad maps $98 00 
 
 To coloring 1,000 of aobve 19 50 
 
 $112 50 
 By cash 50 00 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm — I understand, then, that that sheet 
 shows all the transactions you have had, as far as the State Board 
 of Assessors are concerned, with your firm? A. About railroad 
 maps ; yes, sir. 
 
688 CYKUS F. LOUTEBLL. 
 
 Q. Who made the plate from which you printed these maps ? 
 A. I couldn't tell you sir; I don't know. 
 Q. Did your concern ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who delivered it at your place ? A. That I don't know. 
 Q. Was it delivered there about the time that you got that 
 first order, in May, 1892? A. I should say yes; I couldn't swear 
 to that. 
 
 Q. I see it is dated 1892; was it a new plate when it came? 
 A. That I can't say. 
 
 Q. Did you print the first sheets that were ever printed off of 
 it ? A. 1 couldn't say that ; if I had made the plate I could tell 
 you that. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then I understand you to say, or to 
 have said, that this plate has been in your possession, and not out 
 of your possession, since it first originally came to you in 1892? 
 A. To the best of my knowledge ; I couldn't answer that yes or 
 no ; but to the best of my knowledge, I don't think it has. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — I understand that Col. Van 
 Cleef is present ; Col. Van Cleef, do you desire to make any 
 further explanation, and, if so, an opportunity will be given to 
 you? 
 
 Colonel Van Cleef — I do desire, Mr. Chairman, to 
 make a statement to this Committee of the transactions 
 that I have had with the State ; I had intended having, 
 as I thought owing some duty to myself, my personal 
 character, wanting to make as favorable a showing as I 
 could — the Comfni'ttee from the testimony that has been 
 taken already know full well that I have not done right ; 
 it has been to me — it had seemed to me that it was more 
 an error and negligence than anything else, but I was 
 preparing with my counsel a statement to be presented 
 to this Committee which would be far more satisfactory 
 to me and far more satisfactory to the Committee ; I 
 think that counsel knows that we were engaged in that. 
 Mr. Corbin — I was not aware that a written state- 
 ment was being prepared. 
 
 Col. Van Cleef — I would like to know exactly — if you 
 will pardon me for keeping your time — I would like to 
 know exactly what I am to prepare; I would like to 
 make a whole explanation — there have been matters put 
 in the newpapers in regard to my action with the legal 
 department and the preparation of certiorari cases, in 
 the matter of disbursing moneys for the Board and ob- 
 taining from the State back those diaburaements. I had 
 
CYRUS F. LOUTRELL. 689 
 
 received a letter, Mr. Corbin, irom the counsel of the 
 Central Railroad ; the certioraris at the first part of the 
 Board's career were very numerous, amounting some- 
 times to forty certioraris in a year, which was nearly 
 half of the Board's work ; to do it over again and cer- 
 tify to the Supreme Court — 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would say for Mr. Van CleePs benefit 
 that I have a few vouchers here which I prijpose to put 
 in evidence touching upon one or two other subjects of 
 interest to him, and Mr. Van Cleef's suggestion that he 
 would like to know what he has got to answer is of 
 course proper and fair. I shall close all that I have to 
 say upon that subject this morning, and in the light of 
 what has been said I have no desire to press Col. Van 
 Cleef to take the stand or make any statement at this 
 time, unless he desires to do so. The farther testimony 
 I have will be very brief. 
 
 Col. Van Cleef — I think it would be also more satis- 
 factory if I should present to you through the aid of my 
 counsel — and everyone needs counsel on such a time — 
 what would be much more satisfactory to you and the 
 rest of the Committee. However, I am in your hands. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I think the statement made by Mr. 
 Corbin was whether you desired to make any statement, 
 and it seems to me that any written statement would 
 fall very short, in justice to yourself or to give any light 
 to the Committee. 
 
 Col. Van Cleef — It would be a better analysis of the 
 whole thing than for me to go on the stand and ramble 
 around for eleven years of my commercial life. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But you misunderstand me ; I think 
 Mr. Corbin simply meant — 
 
 Col. Van Cleef — I have no object in hiding anything, 
 and it will not be done. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But is it wise tor you to endeavor to 
 make a written statement, or to make any statement, 
 until after these other matters are brought in, or when 
 you possibly may be able to make a verbal statement, 
 short and concise, covering the ground. 
 
 Col. Van Cleef — I don't know of any other matters. 
 
 Senator Daly — I think it would he more satisfactory 
 for Mr. Van Cleef to make a statement in the way he 
 sees fit. 
 
 44 SH 
 
690 WILLIAM A. BAEKALOW. 
 
 Col. Van Cleef — I am in the hands oi the Committe& 
 to do just as they see fit, but I would rather not make a 
 statement now. 
 
 Senator Daly — "What you want is time ? 
 
 Col. Van Cleef— I do ; it would be more satisfactory 
 to me and my friends. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I would suggest that that is the 
 better course to take. Mr. Corbin will ofter the evi- 
 dence that he has, and then you will be in a position to 
 know just exactly what is brought against you ; you can 
 answer it or explain it as you desire. 
 
 Colonel "Van Cleef — I would like just one word more 
 — that there seemed in my testimony — I don't recollect 
 very much about the testimony — I seem to have said 
 something which reflected upon Mr. Heppenheimer ; I 
 want to say now that he had nothing to do with it ; I 
 don't care to have that done. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That course will be pursued. 
 
 William A. Baekalow, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. I reside at Freehold, in Mon- 
 mouth county. 
 
 Q. What is your profession ? A. Attorney-at-law. 
 
 Q. And where are you engaged and occupied? A. lam con- 
 nected with the legal department of the Central Railroad of ISTew 
 Jersey. 
 
 Q. At their general office in ISTew York? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with their methods of keeping vouchers 
 for payments made ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And nave you produced here the vouchers which the vice- 
 president was summoned to produce? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I asked you for the production of certain vouchers of the 
 moneys paid by your company to John T. Van Cleef ; have you 
 them there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are these the original vouchers ? A. Those are. 
 
 Q. And these have been paid ? A. As appears by the signa- 
 ture of Mr. Van Cleef, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You have the voucher system common to railroads, have 
 you not, whereby the voucher itself passes through the bank and 
 is paid by the bank ? J.. I presume that is common to railroads; 
 that is our case. 
 
 Q. And getting stamped by tbe bank when paid ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
VriLLIAM A. BAEKALOW. 691 
 
 Q. And these are the originals ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I asked for the vouchers during the years 1885 and 1886, as 
 well as subsequent years ; I see you haven't produced any ; why is 
 that? A. During that time — I understand that was before my 
 time — the Reading road was in control, and those vouchers, I 
 presume, are still in the possession of the Reading road. 
 
 Q. They are not in the possession of the Central Railroad of 
 New Jersey? .A. So the second vice-president informs me. 
 
 Q. The first voucher produced is one dated April 9th, 
 1887, and I will call the Committee's attention to the 
 way these vouchers were made up before we go any further. 
 The first paper here in each case is the railroad company's 
 voucher made out in its own office with the name of the claim- 
 ants at the top, and certified below by the Comptroller and the 
 auditor of the receipts and disbursements and stamped, and the 
 receipt signed at the bottom by the claimant — in this case John 
 T. Van Cleef — and appended to them are the original items nf 
 bills rendered by the claimant — in this particular case quite 
 numerous, which are attached to what they call the file slip, 
 which shows the account to which the railroad company charged 
 the bill. A. The warrant and file slip and the attachments ; that 
 is the system. 
 
 Q. You call this first paper the warrant ? A. That is the war- 
 rant, yes, sir; the whole making the voucher. 
 
 Q. Have you had copies made of all these vouches ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And are these copies? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The first item, April 9th, 1887, is for $83.60 for preparing 
 supplementary returns of real estate, schedules of local assessors' 
 reports as per bills rendered. By referring to the bills rendered 
 attached to that first one it will be seen that the third one is for 
 a return to certiorari; so is 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 1 , 14 and 
 15. I observe that these separate bills are for separate railroads, 
 as, for example. High Bridge Railroad. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Lake Hopatcong, Longwood Valley Road, Manufacturers 
 Railroad. Those are the constituent companies forming the Cen 
 tral Railroad system, are they not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And bills against them are paid by the Central Railroad as 
 part of their operations? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And they are taxed, as I understand it, by the State Board 
 of Assessors, separately, and separate bills rendered for each ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. As they are under separate charters? A. Yes, sir. 
 
692 WILLIAM A. BAEKALOW. 
 
 Q. Do you happen to know Col. Van Cleef's handwriting ? 
 ^. I do not; I might explain this, that there are separate charges 
 except where the Central Railroad Compauy has in some way 
 been consolidating the companies, and then they are under the 
 main company, and they pay the charges ; so far as our books 
 are concerned, they are against that branch. 
 
 Q. The next voucher is dated February 7th, 1888, is partially 
 for copy of testimony and partially for returns to certiorari, 
 :$131.08. The next is January 30th, 1889, amount of bills for 
 preparing returns for writs of certiorari reviewing assessment of 
 1880, |169.i4; the details upon that voucher will show that it ia 
 the Central Eailroad of New Jersey, Toms Eiver and Waretown, 
 and others. 
 
 The next is voucher of October 9th, 1890, for $195.80, 
 for returns to writ of certiorari, and the list of companies 
 following. 
 
 Senator Daly — Why hasn't Col. Van Cleet a right to 
 collect that ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Perfect right; no impropriety in it 
 whatever, and it is the duty of the railroad company to 
 pay it. 
 
 The next one is July 23d, 1891, for returns to certio- 
 rari, $225.20, with details following : 
 
 The next is September 17th, 1892, preparing returns 
 to writs of certiorari, as per writs attached, $245.95. 
 
 October Slst, 1898, same charge, 8232.60, with list of 
 corporations. 
 
 July 31st, 1894, similar charge, $241.60, with the 
 details attached. 
 
 March 6th, 1895, similar charge, $231.55, for returns 
 to certiorari. 
 
 These vouchers are offered in evidence and are to be 
 returned to the witness and copies to be retained by the 
 committee. 
 
 " ISTew York, April 26th, 1895. 
 " Mr. E. W. de Forest, General Counsel. 
 
 " Dear Sir — In response to your inquiry of yesterday, 
 we find on reference to our records that the following 
 vouchers were drawn in favor of Mr. John T. Van 
 Cleef, for services and disbursements in connection with 
 the preparation of returns relating to State taxes for the 
 Central Railroad Company of ITew Jersey and various 
 constituent companies connected with it, viz. : 
 
WILLIAM A. BARKALOW. 693 
 
 Vo. No. Authorized by. Amount. 
 
 4,432-87 S. M. WilliamB $83.60 
 
 475-88 R. W. de Forest 102.60 
 
 27,620-88 do 131.08 
 
 18,793-89 B. Williamson 169.44 
 
 25,848-90 R. W. de Forest 195.80 
 
 18,321-91 J. L. Conover 225.20 
 
 29,159-92 H. W. de Forest 245.95 
 
 28,162-93 R. W. de Forest.... 232.60 
 
 19,083-94 H. W. de Forest 241.60 
 
 4,395-95 R. W. de Forest 231.55 
 
 Yours respectfully, 
 
 S. M. Williams, 
 
 Second Vice-President." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence the following vouchers 
 from the Comptroller's office of this State, being vouchers 
 of moneys paid to John T. Van Cleef for return of these 
 writs of certiorari and other writs of certiorari. 
 Chairman Voorhees — These identical writs ? 
 Mr. Corbin — These identical writs; yes sir; these 
 same companies ; they are bunched here with others and 
 in all cases cannot be identified. 
 
 First voucher ISTo. 2259, May, 1885; State of JSTew 
 Jersey to John T. Van Cleef, for disbursements and ex- 
 penses incurred in making returns, Nos. 1 and 2, to 
 writs of certiorari issued in the Philadelphia and Read- 
 ing cases supplementary to first return. 
 
 I call the attention of the committee to the fact that 
 that first return bill I should judge is for the supple- 
 mental return, and covers some of the same ground 
 which this bill covers of $236.64, and it does not specify 
 the railroads further than as to the Philadelphia and 
 Reading cases. Oftered in evidence and marked " Ex- 
 hibit 237." 
 
 Also voucher 2412, John T. Van Cleef, June, 1885; 
 
 expenses incurred in making original returns of writs of 
 
 certiorari in assessment of 1884. Here is a list of the 
 
 entire railroad system so far as I can identify it. 
 
 Q. Mr. Barkalow, will you run over that list of corporations 
 
 and tell me whether they all belong to the Central system ? A. 
 
 No, sir, here is No. 3, isn't; that is Delaware and Bound 
 
 Brook. 
 
69J: WILLIAM A. BARKALOW. 
 
 Q. That ia Philadelphia and Reading system, isn't it? A. 
 Yes, sir ; Philadelphia and Atlantic City isn't. 
 
 Q. What does that belong to? A. The Reading system; I 
 don't recognize the Williamstown and Delaware. 
 
 Q. That did belong to the Reading system, didn't it ? A. 
 Yes, sir; Philadelphia and Reading Railroad Company; that is 
 Reading system ; Morris and Essex isn't ; the Passaic and Dela- 
 ware, and Sussex and Warren. 
 
 Q. With the exception of the last four, the Morris and Essex, 
 Passaic and Delaware, the Sussex Railroad, and the Warren 
 Road ; these all did belong to the Philadelphia and Reading sys- 
 tem at that time, did they not, in 1885 ? A. I presume that is so. 
 Mr. Corbin — You will observe this bill to the State 
 includes not only the entire Central system, or what is 
 called the Reading system, but also the Morris and 
 Essex system— marked " Exhibit 238." 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Senator Daly wants to know 
 why he couldn't have made copies of these returns for 
 the State and charged the State for them. 
 
 Senator Daly — It is often the case that an attorney 
 gets a copy of a return. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These records were all printed at an 
 enormous expense to the State. That briwgs me to a 
 point that I thought of mentioning — these originals; I 
 can't find them on file in the Supreme Court Clerk's 
 office ; there is no doubt they were made. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Where should they have been filed? 
 Mr. Corbin — Undoubtedly the writ should go back 
 and be returned t3 the Clerk of the Supreme Court, but 
 it is customary for the Clerk, or the officer who receives 
 the writ, to return it to the attorney who gives it to 
 him. 
 
 Senator Daly — But when it is printed, the book is 
 often filed with the return, and the returns printed in 
 the case. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is all subsequent to the return of 
 the writ. 
 
 Senator Daly — One copy might be served upon the 
 Attorney-General and one upon the attorney of the 
 railroad company. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I never heard of that practice. 
 Senator Daly — It isn't unfamiliar. 
 Mr. Corbin — I stand corrected. 
 
WILLIAM A. BARKALOW. 695 
 
 Senator Daly — Both attorneys want to be correct. It 
 is very frequently done. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Senator suggests that, but the State 
 with the original record in its possession, why it should 
 want a copy of its record I cannot now understand, 
 particularly as it was all immediately printed by the 
 Central Railroad Company. 
 
 Senator Daly — It was of the greatest importance to 
 the State that the returns should be made to them and 
 they should expect the original returns the same as the 
 importance to the railroad company that they should 
 have a clerical return. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — And I think that that came within 
 the duty of this clerk of the Board of Assessors. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These bills are not for copies ; they are 
 for making the returns just as the bills for the railroad 
 company show, and I offer them for what they show on 
 their face. 
 
 Last paper marked " Exhibit 239." 
 
 Also voucher, ¥0. 3143, of August, 1886, disburse- 
 ments incurred in making returns to writs of certiorari 
 of taxes of 1885 for the Lackawanna system, $198. 
 
 " Exhibit 240." 
 
 Also voucher 2983, July, 1886, sundry railroad com- 
 panies, certainly some of them are Central system, $239. 
 
 "Exhibit 241." 
 
 Also voucher 3,849, October, 1886, for $350; legal 
 services rendered and disbursements incurred in pre- 
 paring returns seventy-four writs of certiorari. 
 
 " Exhibit 242." 
 
 Also Voucher 2577, June, 1887, for $128.40. This 
 seems to be for Master's fees in taking testimony ; that, 
 I presume, is proper. " Exhibit 243." 
 
 Also Voucher 3751, of October, 1887, for preparing 
 returns, $214.30. " Exhibit 244." 
 
 Also Voucher 266, of 1887, for $189, preparing re- 
 turns. " Exhibit 245." 
 
 Also Voucher 2962, July, 1888, for $160. preparing 
 returns to certiorari. " Exhibit 246." 
 
 Also voucher of August 22, for legal services and dis- 
 bursements in preparing returns for the following list of 
 railroads, $296.10. This is the only one that I have had 
 an opportunity to compare with the voucher produced 
 by the Central Railroad Company. If you will refer to 
 
696 WILLIAM A. BARKALOW. 
 
 the voucher of 1889 you will find the voucher, I think, 
 put in in the summer and paid August 19, 1889. Au- 
 gust 22, 1889, there is a bill put in to the State for legal 
 services of preparing returns to the following writs of 
 certiorari, and then follows the list, $296.10. 
 
 Senator Skirm — As I understand it, these bills have 
 been paid by the State. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Undoubtedly ; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — And paid the Railroad Company. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — They are bills that are practically iden- 
 tical; they are grouped differently here; the amounts 
 you cannot identify exactly, but there is a bill rendered 
 to the railroad company for making up the return of its 
 writs, which is proper. When the prosecutor gets the 
 return I think he pays for it, and immediately after this 
 I find in every case a bill put into the State for a similar 
 sum ; I can't identify it exactly, because the bill is made 
 up diflerently, but substantially the same sums, and the 
 State has paid for the same services. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — And after getting a salary from 
 the State he charges the State specially for this work ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — He is entitled from the Railroad Com- 
 pany, or any prosecutor of a writ of certiorari, to proper 
 fees and compensation for making a return to that writ ; 
 that return is a copy of his record attached to the writ 
 and sent back to the court. 
 
 Senator Daly — Suppose the Attorney-General asks 
 him for a return likewise ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Return to the writ when the State has 
 got the record ? 
 
 Senator Daly — Yea; he might ask for it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Every one of these goes into the Court 
 they are printed, and three copies must be served by 
 law upon the Attorney-General. 
 
 Senator Voorhees — I am informed that there was an 
 arrangement made whereby the State and the railroads 
 were to share equally the cost ol these returns. 
 
 Senator Skirm — They have shared equally. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This is the history of this thing as I 
 understand it. 
 
 The railroad tax act was passed in 1884; some thirty- 
 six railroads constituting the Central Railroad System^ 
 and certain others, decided immediately to certiorari 
 the entire assessment, and the clerk make the return. 
 
WILLIAM A. BAEKALOW. 697 
 
 He rendered his bills, as you see by the Central Rail- 
 road's testimony here, and doubtless I could bring the 
 testimony from the other railroads to the same eflect, 
 no doubt I could — that is for 1884 and 1885 — and they 
 were prosecuted to the Court of Appeals in this State 
 and the taxes sustained, and judgment went in favor of 
 the State Board of Assessors, with costs, and all this 
 cost of litigation was thrown upon the companies. ITow, 
 since that time, I wasn't aware of it until now — it ap- 
 pears that the Central Railroad System has been taking 
 out certioraris for their taxes every year from that time 
 to the present, to preserve, I suppose, some legal rights 
 which they yet wished to try, but the cases have not 
 been brought to trial, the writs are not returned into 
 Court, and they have done it evidently under advice of 
 counsel with a view of saving some right, but the thing 
 has been threshed out to the Court of Appeals and 
 decided and paid for, not only by the railroads, but by 
 the State ; it was an expensive and an exceedingly im- 
 portant litigation. Why now any arrangement should 
 go on for these ten years under this former arrange- 
 ment with the Central Railroad Company that the State 
 should pay half of their fees for taking out these writs 
 and letting them sleep, is something aside from my 
 knowledge in practice. I don't know that there is such 
 an arrangement. 
 Q. Is there any such arrangement, Mr. Barkalow ? A.l don't 
 
 know anything about it. 
 
 Q. You are in the office of the General Solicitor of the road ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — These bills are certainly for the full 
 
 amount of services rendered; are they not? A. I think the 
 
 vouchers will show there that one of them is for one-half ; after 
 
 that, it is presumed, he rendered a bill for the fall amount. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There may have been some such arrange- 
 ment in 1884 and 1885 with reference to those first 
 returns when there was litigation, but I can scarcely 
 conceive any such arrangement having continued; 
 indeed, I didn't know there was any such arrangement 
 made then. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But I see — pardon the interruption — 
 
 but I see here that most of these bills were signed by John T. 
 
 Van Cleef, as secretary; wouldn't the State Board of Assessors 
 
698 WILLIAM A. BAEKALOW. 
 
 then receive the amouht of money rather than Mr. Van Cleef, 
 personally. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Well, I suppose in the absence of any 
 statute on the subject that the custodian of the Board's 
 records who actually copies them and makes the return 
 would be entitled personally to the fees for the return ; 
 I think that is so. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And yet he signs the bills here as 
 John T. Van Cleef, secretary. 
 
 Senator Daly — That gives him an official standing. 
 
 Witness — You will notice that his vouchers are made 
 out " John T. Van Cleef, secretary." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I also offer voucher 422 of December, 
 1890, for services and disbursements preparing returns 
 to writs of certiorari, Central Railroad System, $224.50. 
 
 " Exhibit 248." 
 
 Also voucher 4045, of September, 1891, for preparing 
 returns to writs of certiorari. Central Railroad System, 
 $331.50, which has this otatement at the end, "Philadel- 
 phia & Reading Company, lessee ; writ includes same as 
 for the years 1887 and 1888, 1889 and 1890, $48." 
 
 " Exhibit 249." 
 
 Also voucher 2236, April, 1893, for return to certi- 
 orari, Central Railroad System, $245.05. 
 
 " Exhibit 250." 
 
 I ofler in evidence voucher 1248 of February, 1894, 
 of the Delaware and Atlantic Telephone and Telegraph 
 Company ; also voucher 2532 of May, 1894, of the same 
 company; also voucher 4884 of October, 1894, same 
 company ; and among other telephones charged to the 
 State I find telephone IsTo. 542 charged to the State 
 Board of Assessors and paid. I will ofler in evidence 
 these three bills, and also the catalogue of that Telephone 
 Company in this State, by which you will see that that 
 telephone is in Mr. Van Cleef 's private house. 
 
 Bills marked "Exhibits 251, 252 and 253." 
 
 I also offer in evidence the official directory of the 
 Delaware and Atlantic Telephone and Telegraph Com- 
 pany for October, 1894; telephone 542, Trenton, is Van 
 Cleef, J. T., residence. Marked " Exhibit 254." 
 
 Senator Skirm — Couldn't that have been put in by 
 order or through the Board of Assessors ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It appears to be so on the face of the 
 bill. 
 
BIRD W. SPENCER. 699 
 
 Senator Skirm — It seems that these gentlemen here 
 have owned the State House and the revenues of the 
 State, and everything else. 
 
 Cbairmsn Vociheef — Th(y didn't have any buBiuess 
 to order it put in there. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Not at all. 
 
 Bird W. Spencer, 'sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are a member of Ihe Stale Board of Aeseeeors? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been a member ? A. Six years. 
 
 Q. That takes us back to 1889 ? A. 1889. 
 
 Q. Did you know that the Board was ordering maps ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How were they ordered by your Board ; how was it deter- 
 mined that you should have maps each year? A. I suppose I 
 have got to tell you how the thing originated. Senator Cattell, 
 who was president of the Board in 1889 — 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Is he dead now ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That is what I thought. A. He was 
 president of the Board in 1889 when I went in, and he told me 
 that the Board had adopted a map and had it made to be issued 
 with the report ; he told me that it was made by Col. Van Cleef 
 and Mr. Betts; they had investigated the subject thoroughly 
 and had ordered them to make the map, and that map was sent 
 out each year with the reports; I asked him about the cost of it 
 as a matter that seemed to be of some moment, and he said they 
 cost from twenty to twenty-five cents apiece, and I looked up the 
 cost of the maps and found that about reasonable, probably a 
 little less than the maps would cost ordinarily. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Did you look at the bill — did you 
 determine the price from the bill or from your idea of what it 
 should be? A. 'No, I don't think so. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You said you thought it was rea- 
 sonable. A. The bill for the maps cost about twenty or twenty- 
 five cents. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Cost the State that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the matter come up before the Board for their action ? 
 A. Yes, sir ; the report each year — the report was adopted and 
 the map was made a portion of the report. 
 
 Q. Yes ; I have offered in evidence here the report, which 
 showed that each year you re-adopted the map. Is there any 
 
700 BIRD W. SPENCBE. 
 
 record of your action except that? A. I can't answer that posi- 
 tively, but I think not. 
 
 Q. You adopted it by signing the report ? A. By signing the 
 report. 
 
 Q. Did the matter come up for discussion annually 1 A. 1 
 think that each year, when the report was adopted, the same 
 number of maps were ordered from the printers as there were 
 reports ordered by the legislative committee ; in fact, during the 
 first years — the first year or two I was in the Board — the maps 
 were ordered by the legislative committee, or included in the 
 legislative committee's order for the reports, as the maps were a 
 part of the report. 
 
 Q. They don't appear to be in the contract ? A. That I know 
 nothing about. 
 
 Q. And We have no other record of their action, so far as I 
 know ; I suppose the members of the Board took no personal 
 charge of the matter of getting the maps, did they, or the distri- 
 bution of them ? A. The receipt of the reports and the maps 
 were left entirely to the Secretary aud the Clerk. 
 
 Q. Tou say the Secretary aud Clerk ; who is the Clerk? A. 
 The Secretary and the Clerks in the office ; I don't know how 
 that work was divided. 
 
 Q. You supposed that this number that had been ordered was 
 being delivered there every year? A. Certainly. 
 
 Q. And your attention was never drawn to the deficiency until 
 now? A. I don't know of any deficiency now. 
 
 Q. Don't even know it now? A. No, sir ; for I assume the 
 printers delivered the maps for which they rendered bills. 
 
 Q. Yes, they undoubtedly delivered maps for which they ren- 
 dered bills. You still think that the printers, Chew and Mur- 
 phy and Quigley furnished the number of maps on their bills ? 
 A. No, I didn't say that; I say I assume they did, because the 
 bills were made out for that number of maps. 
 
 Q. But it is a pretty violent assumption now, in the light of 
 their testimony. A. I haven't read the testimony; I have only 
 seen the newspaper accounts of it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You have read that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You have seen the newspaper ac- 
 counts? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That ten thousand maps were fur- 
 nished and forty-one thousand charged, you have seen that state- 
 ment ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You don't know whether it is true or 
 not? A. No, sir. 
 
BIRD W. SPENCER. 701 
 
 Q. Were you aware that fourteen hundred of these maps that 
 the State has paid for are still over iu New York? A. I was 
 not, sir. 
 
 Q. Are you aware that four hundred had been there since 
 1892? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And a thousand since 1894? A. Not at all. 
 
 Q. That is the testimony of Col. Loutrel. A. I didn't hear 
 that. 
 
 Q. Did you know that the maps had been charged to the State 
 Board of Assessors by the lithographers in New York? A. Yes, 
 sir; because — Oh, I can't say that; the bills were rendered for 
 the maps in the regular course. 
 
 Q. You mean now, by the printers, Murphy and Chew and 
 others? A. By the printers the bills were rendered in the 
 regular course, and approved in the regular course. 
 
 Q. And that is all you really knew about it ? A. That is all 
 the Board knew about it. 
 
 Q. Do you remember that the Comptroller one year rejected 
 the printer's bill ? A. My memory of that is this, that at the 
 outset of several years the Comptroller passed the bills for the 
 reports and for the maps, and for some reason unknown to me 
 the new Comptroller decided that the map bills should be made 
 separate, and it was. 
 
 Q. Separately, and charged to the account of the State Board 
 of Assessors ? A. I don't know about the charge, but it was 
 made separately. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Won't you ask him if the Board 
 ever gave authority to their Secretary to manipulate 
 these maps, to charge them to the State in his own 
 name? 
 
 §. Did the Board give • authority to their Secretary, Mr. Van 
 Cleef, to bill these maps to the State in his own name ? 
 
 Senator Skirm — But he never did that ; the printers 
 always done that. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you buy them directly from the publishers, 
 Van Cleef & Betts ? A. I can't answer that question, because I 
 fell into the custom established by my predecessors, Messrs. Cat. 
 tell and Beetle, the other members of the Board, which was to 
 buy the maps from the printer who printed the reports. 
 
 Q. Andthe custom simply continued as you found it? A. 
 Simply continued as I found it ; Senator Cattell, I might add, 
 enlarged very much on the importance of this map as being part 
 of the report, and my experience has been that it is a very im- 
 portant part of the report if properly sent out with the report. 
 
702 BIRD W. SPENCER. 
 
 Q. I show you report which has just now come from the press 
 within the past few days, where it refers again to a map which 
 will accompany this report; does that refer to the same map? 
 Q. I take it that it does. 
 
 Q. You signed the report ; have you any doubt? A. I have 
 no doubt it refers to the map of the railroads prepared by Van 
 Cleef & Betts. 
 
 Q. And you intended to print as many as would correspond 
 with the number of your reports ? A. That would be the 
 assumption ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — A new and corrected map each 
 year? A. I have always understood that the maps were cor- 
 rected up to date each year. 
 
 Q. Then you are not aware that this map was first printed 
 from a stone in 1887, and that it was never changed until 1892, 
 when the changes were made, and that from that time to this no 
 further changes have been made in it? A. J. wasn't aware of it; 
 no, sir. 
 
 Q. That is the evidence. You were not aware then that this 
 which has the dates on it 1894-5, and which has been sent out 
 during the past year was two or three years behind date? A. 
 ISTo, sir ; I wasn't aware of that ; I don't know that it is. 
 
 Q. Well, I can show you that there are a number of railroads 
 which have been operated for two or three years that are not 
 here. You will not find the Lehigh Valley Railroad across the 
 Newark Bay there; you will not find the Perth Amboy and 
 Earitau Road there, which has been operated three years, I 
 think, certainly two, and I think Col. Van Cleef called attention 
 to a third. No, the evidence is that no changes have been made 
 upon it, except with a pen, since 1892. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Who prepared the report of the 
 Board annually ? A. What we call the literary portion of the 
 report has been written by difiereat members of the Board; Sen- 
 ator Cattell wrote the report up the second year that I was in 
 the Board, and then he asked me to write the report, and the 
 literary portion I wrote for three years, and I believe since then 
 I supervised each year's reports, although I have not written 
 them entirely — that is, the portion which we call the literary 
 portion, the front part. The figures and the statistics are made 
 up from the returns of the railroads and the corporations. 
 
 Q. Are you aware that the State was paying for returns of cer- 
 tiorari of the Central Railroad system and by the Central Rail- 
 road system and other companies every year from 1885 to the 
 present time? A. I wasn't aware that they were paying any- 
 
BIRD W. SPENCEK. 703 
 
 thing, except what had been arranged by the Attorney- General ; 
 that matter was entirely in the Attorney-Geaeral's hands; we 
 never interfered with it in the slightest. 
 
 Q. "Were you aware that the telephone in Col. Van Gleet's 
 house was being passed among your vouchers and paid by the 
 State? A. I was not, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did the Board order it placed 
 there? A. ISTot to my knowledge. 
 
 Examined by Senatoe Skirm. 
 
 Q. Id the year 1891, the year that the State expert for printing 
 threw out the cost of maps and said that they were not included 
 in the contract, and the Comptroller that year simply certiiied to 
 the same thing, and yet, on a bill here, dated June 1, even if the 
 Comptroller had thrown that out, here is a bill to the John L. 
 Murphy Company for $1,540, for maps and clasps, which I see is 
 approved by you as President, and also by two other gentlemen 
 of the committee; why should a change have been made that 
 year when the previous Comptroller had been certifying the State 
 bills; this is June 1, 1891, for publishing the map of 1890? A. 
 It was a new Comptroller, I think, at that time. 
 
 Q. Well, that is not my point. Mr. Bechtel here, after this 
 report had been submitted to him, says, " I have examined the 
 within bills and find them correct as per contract, except that 
 there is no contract for maps, and for some other matter." These, 
 apparently, have been printed year after year without any apparent 
 authority of law, excepting the order of the State Board of Asses- 
 sors. You so understand that ? A. The way I understood that 
 was this : The Board are required to make a report to the Legis- 
 lature, and in making a report to the Legislature they deemed it 
 necessary, and it was, that a map of the railroads of the State 
 should accompany the report. 
 
 Q. They were a part of your report? A. Part of the report, 
 and as I understood at that time, the Comptroller previous to 
 that date had so interpreted it, and it had been passed as part of 
 the bill for the report ordered by the joint committee of the Leg- 
 islature. 
 
 Q. And yet the State Board of Assessors knew each year, and 
 the Comptroller certainly knew each year, that thiff map was 
 going to be published ; now, why shouldn't the Board have that 
 advertised under contract the same as any other printing for 
 bids ; therefore the State would have saved the difference 
 according to the bills of Francis & Loutrell and some others, where 
 the mao would cost the State about four cents apiece, and some 
 
704 BIRD W. SPENCER. 
 
 years possibly six, and yet the State of E"ew Jersey paid 25 cents 
 for the maps and one of them 30 cents, — and yet it has not been 
 brought out why the maps were more expensive one year than 
 the other. Now, why should the State Board of Assessors have 
 done that? In other words, why should they squander the 
 money, or why should the money of the State have been squan- 
 dered in excess charges and the bill certified by the State Board 
 of Assessors and also by the Comptroller — maps worth four or 
 five cents apiece charged twenty-five and thirty cents apiece. My 
 question is, why the State Board of Assessors should have per- 
 mitted that? A. I have answered that question before. 
 
 Q. I didn't so understand it. A. The maps were made origi- 
 nally as part of the report and included in the bill that was ren- 
 dered for the report, which did not come before the State Board 
 of Assessors. 
 
 Q. And yet the State never asked for bids for the map? A. 
 That I don't know anything about; lam telling you about the 
 time the inception of the thing was that the maps were ordered 
 and included in the bill for reports that were ordered by the Joint 
 Committee of the Legislature. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Didn't it strike you as being just 
 a little bit irregular that the Board should order of its own secre- 
 tary a map prepared by him and pay him for it? A. 1 think 
 that the general understanding was — mine was that the secretary 
 of the Board had no interest whatever in the map at that time. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That was your understanding? 
 A. I understood it so. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Corbin) — Who did you suppose owned it? A. The 
 printer who supplied it; I hadn't the slightest idea that anybody 
 but the printer was interested in the supply of the map, and I 
 differ with you on the railroad map. Senator Skirm, as to its 
 value ; a map of that size at 25 cents is not an exorbitant price. 
 
 Q. The bills have been shown here of Francis and Loutrel 
 where a thousand maps would cost $48 ; that would be a little 
 less than five cents a piece, and a few maps, the first lot perhaps, 
 including the stone, for six thousand maps only cost about seven 
 cents apiece colored, and yet the State Board of Assessors have 
 permitted their Secretary to have, I think, not to use any harsh 
 language, to have got out of the State of New Jersey at least 
 from 17 to 20 cents apiece more for maps than they were 
 worth. Now, shouldn't the Board of Assessors discover that 
 fact? A. I don't know how they could very well under the 
 arrangement of the purchase of them. 
 
BIRD W. SPENCER 705 
 
 Q. Then shouldn't the Board have ordered the maps; we have 
 been trying to find out vrho gave the order for the maps. Mr. 
 Yan Cleef, the Secretary, states that the Board ordered them. 
 Now, as I understand you, you say that they were ordered by 
 some indefinable person through the printing commmittee, or 
 somebody else ? A. Originally they were ordered included in 
 the report, and after that date they were adopted by the Board 
 as part of their report, as they were before, and the bill was 
 approved by the Board, and there don't seem to be any question 
 about that. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — How did you come to approve 
 -the bill of June 1, 1891, for six thousand maps ? A. You mean 
 the method of its being presented ? 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Yes? A. The bill was un- 
 doubtedly presented by the Secretary, and with the statement 
 that " this bill is correct," and the Board approved it and in- 
 structed the President and the Auditing Committee to approve 
 it and send it to the Comptroller. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You relied upon the representa- 
 tions of the Secretary? A. Most assuredly; no question about 
 the integrity of the Secretary has ever been brought before the 
 Board, and the Secretary says we have six thousand reports and 
 required six thousand maps to go with the reports, and the Board 
 would take his statement for it under all the circumstances, of 
 course. 
 
 Q. Hasn't Mr. Van Cleef been very active and an efiicient 
 Secretary of your Board? A. He has made an excellent Sec- 
 retary, for this reason, that his intimate knowledge of the first 
 years of the Board, which were very turbulent, assisted the in- 
 coming members with keeping along with the decisions of the 
 courts and so on, which we might in a moment of carelessness 
 encounter and upset the entire assessment ; in that respect he has 
 been very efficient. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Haven't your Board practically followed the way that was 
 laid out before you by the original Board in 1881 ? A. Yes, in 
 almost everything, and advised to do that by the Attorney-Gen- 
 eral, because the original Board before I went into the Board in 
 1889 had made a fight for the State and had won it. 
 
 Q. Has there anything come before thft Board during these 
 years you have been there except the adding of new branch 
 lines and registered values in the matter of details ? A. The 
 duties of the Board have been more particularly my duties, be- 
 
 45 SH 
 
706 AISTHONY R. KUSER. 
 
 cause I came to the Board as a practical railroad man ; the valua- 
 tion ot the new railroad properties and the valuation of old rail- 
 road properties, which values had necessarily changed because of 
 depreciation. 
 
 Q. There has been no radical change in the valuation of the 
 railroad properties from that made by the original Board, has 
 there "i A. I think there has ; I think the general system 
 adopted by the original State Board has been adhered to, par- 
 ticularly as relating to first and second-class properties and fran- 
 chises, but main stems have changed very materially in value and 
 in details of value, maybe not so much in the aggregate, but in 
 detail. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — "When you checked up that bill 
 did you know that it had been discarded by the State expert on 
 printing ? J.. I can't say that I did. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Well, isn't the fact before you 
 there that you have testified to a bill as correct which had been 
 thrown oat by the State expert on printing? A. I haven't the 
 slightest knowledge on that point. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You didn't know about that? A^ 
 'So, sir. 
 
 Anthony R. Kusbe, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Are you a member of the State Board of Assessors? A^ 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been such ? A. Since 1892, in the 
 spring. 
 
 Q. Do you know anything about the ordering of these maps ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What? A. Why, mostly every spring when the report 
 was ordered we ordered the maps with them, the same as has 
 been customary to do before my time. 
 
 Q. Were you ther3 in the spring ot 1892 ? A. 1 can't remem- 
 ber whether I started in the spring ; I think the report was out 
 before I got in. 
 
 Q. Then, that new map, which they had made in the spring of 
 1892, had already been ordered up before you took a hand? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know who made the plate for it ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, then, in 1893 and 1894, the subject came up again, 
 did it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was the subject discussed in the Board? A. No, sir; 
 
ANTHONY R. KUSEE. 707 
 
 merely recommended that the secretary order the maps to go 
 with the report. 
 
 Q. That is a clause in the report ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You signed the report ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who put that clause in there? A. General Spencer; he 
 generally wrote the report, as president. 
 
 Q. Did you know the maps hadn't been corrected up to date? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you suppose they had? A. We generally had some 
 marked, at the office. 
 
 Q. Marked with a pen? A. Yes, sir; when we went out we 
 used them. 
 
 Q. Did you know how many came there t A. 1 did not. 
 
 Q. Did you suppose as many came as there were reports? A. 
 I certainly did. 
 
 Q. And as many as were on the bills? A. Yes, sir; the bills 
 came to us, I think, the last year — I think I was on the auditing 
 committee; betore that I was not — I think, the last year. 
 
 Q. The Board recommends the map every year and adopts it ? 
 A. Yes, sir; but I think the last year — I was only on the 
 auditing committee — Mr. Wismer was president that year. 
 
 Q. Did it come up when this last report was made out to the 
 Legislature a few months ago? A. The same as usual, I have 
 no doubt it is ; I can't remember now whether it did. 
 
 Q. You don't remember anything that was said about it ? A. 
 No, sir ; I can't remember anything of the details. 
 
 Q. The whole thing was left to the secretary, wasn't it? A. 
 We recommended the maps and he was to order them from the 
 printer; I never knew that Mr. Van Cleef got any money from 
 the maps. 
 
 Q. Didn't you know that he was the proprietor of the maps ? 
 A. I knew he had some interest in the original stone. 
 
 Q. But you supposed that that didn't continue ^ A. 1 thought 
 he had sold that and I didn't know he had it. 
 
 (y. Who did you think he had sold it to? ^.1 didn't know; 
 it wasn't our business to find that out; I didn't know that he got 
 any money out of it until I was here last week and he gave his 
 testimony. 
 
 Q. Did you know he had a telephone in his house? A. Yes, 
 but I didn't know — 
 
 Q. And the Board was passing it ? A. We got a bill for tele- 
 phone ; I didn't know it was for his house ; we have one in our 
 office. 
 
708 ANTHONY E. KUSER. 
 
 Q. It is charged to the State Board of Assessors. A. We got 
 our telephone bills — come in for telephone and telegraph, 
 
 Q. But you were not aware that you were paying his telephone 
 bills, too, — and these returns to certioraris, you knew nothing of 
 that? A. I knew the Central Railroad certioraried the assess- 
 ments every year. 
 
 Q. Did you know the State was paying for the returns? A. 
 That was a niatter for the Attorney-General, I think. 
 
 Q. Did you know about it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. On the telephone question, who certifies these telephone 
 bills? A. I think last year our committee — I was on the audit- 
 ing committee, and I did, but I never thought; I am one of the 
 auditing committee ; the president generally signed first, and 
 Mr. Kelley and myself generally signed later. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Didn't you know the number of 
 the telephone in your office? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You didn't look at that bill very carefully. I want to see 
 {he endorsement. The first one is endorsed correct, passed for 
 $14.25, signed by Mr. Kuser and approved by F. H. Wismer, 
 President State Board ; and then the next one is approved, F. 
 H. Wismer, and has the endorsement of Col. Kuser ; and the 
 next is approved by F. H. Wismer, President. Is Mr. Wismer 
 now president ? A. No; he is not a member any more; when 
 a bill comes to us the secretary brings them and says they are all 
 right, and we do not go to the telephone company to see if they 
 are correct. 
 
 Q. I presume that matter of the details of the office work has 
 been left very largely — these clerical matters have been left very 
 largely to the secretary — and then you have an additional clerk 
 there ; so it is his business to attend to these detail matters, is it 
 not; that is, the general little details of the office work — the 
 secretary ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that if the secretary handed you these bills you would 
 undoubtedly approve them as correct ? A. It isn't on that bill 
 that I certified to it— 542? 
 
 Q. (By Mr. Corbin) — Yes, here is your name on the back of 
 this one. A. Certainly; we have lots of small bills, for 
 stationery, &c. 
 
 Q. Is this telephone now being paid for by the State? A. I 
 really don't know; I didn't know it was paid for. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The evidence in regard to these matters 
 has been put before the Committee in such a fragmentary 
 
STATE BOARD OF ASSESSORS. 709 
 
 way, and with so many interruptions, that with the con- 
 sent of the Committee I think it is only proper that I 
 should briefly sum up the evidence that has been offered. 
 It is quite possible that a person not having followed it 
 closely might not see exactly the bearing of the law and 
 just what it is. 
 
 The evidence is that in 1887 the State Board of 
 Assessors in their report said to the Legislature that 
 they had determined to cause to be prepared a map, and 
 that they had caused a map to be prepared, which would 
 accompany their report. The evidence is that they 
 bought the drawing table on which it was drawn and 
 the paper on which it was drawn and sent them to 
 Somerville and paid the freight on them ; that they 
 bought certain drawing instruments for use there, and 
 they paid sundry other items, for which I showed the 
 vouchers, for the purpose of preparing the maps. I 
 showed vouchers also where they had paid Mr. Betts 
 $80 and $60, and possibly other sums, for drawing, but 
 Mr. Betts explained with reference to those vouchers 
 that he was also drawing for the State Board of Assessors 
 county maps of railroads, and that those referred to the 
 county maps, and not to these two. The map was drawn 
 at Somerville by Mr. Betts, employed in the Depart- 
 ment of Education, and by Mr. Van Cleef, Secretary of 
 the State Board. The map was transferred to stone by 
 the Thomas & Wylie Company in 1887, and the man- 
 ager of that company testified here and brought the 
 duplicate invoice of his books to show that one edition 
 and no more has ever been printed from that stone, and 
 that that edition was six thousand copies. Mr. Van Cleef 
 said that there was but one edition, but bis memory was 
 that it was ten thousand copies, but he says distinctly, 
 " I can't be sure." Mr. Betts said that the first edition 
 was six thousand, but he thought a smaller edition had 
 afterwards been printed, but he would not be sure. 
 
 The reference to the books and production of the 
 manager makes it clear that they are mistaken. There 
 was just one edition printed, and that was six thousand 
 copies in the year 1887. Ifo more maps were made or 
 printed by anybody until 1892. In the meantime Van 
 Cleef, or Van Cleef & Betts, through Mr. Chew and 
 through Murphy and through MacCrellish & Quigley, 
 sold of these original six thousand, twenty-eight thou- 
 
710 STATE BOARD OF ASSESSORS. 
 
 Baud five hundred to the State in annual installments at 
 twenty-five and thirty cents apiece. Furthermore, the 
 State bound or noounted 703 of those maps, lor which 
 I produced the vouchers, and of those mounted maps 
 Messrs. Van Cleef and Betts sold to sundry State officers 
 at $3.50 and $3 apiece, producing $225. Mr. Van Cleef 
 said they had sold them to lawyers throughout the State 
 also at the same price ; how many, he did not say, nor is 
 there any evidence, but that they must have been part 
 of that edition is conclusively shown. 
 
 In 1892 this second map was made by photographing 
 the first and reducing its scale and that was produced on 
 metal. Who made the plate we do not know; Col. 
 Van Cleef reiused to disclose it; the map has no imprint 
 upon it, and the members of the State Board of Asses- 
 sors of whom I have asked the question say that they 
 do not know. Col. Loutrell does not know ; but a plate 
 made for Col. Van Cleef by somebody was taken to 
 Francis & Loutrell, practically as soon as it was made, or 
 in May, 1892, and in May, 1892, he gave an order to 
 Francis & Loutrell to print him from that metal plate two 
 thousand copies of that map. Again the next year, one 
 thousand, and again in 1894 one thousand. There have 
 been printed from that plate four thousand copies. There 
 have been printed from the stone, as I have before 
 stated, six thousand. The entire number of copies of 
 this railroad map ever printed by anybody is ten thou- 
 sand. The State has paid for forty-one thousand five 
 hundred, and has paid for the mounted ones, as I have 
 stated, and has paid a good part of the cost of originally 
 producing the map. 
 
 Now that is the evidence, which is practically undis- 
 puted, with regard to it. The only fact about it that we 
 have not disclosed to the Committee is, who made the 
 metal plate? The methods by which the maps were 
 marketed upon the State we have had disclosed here by 
 the evidence of the printers ; it was done in their name 
 but not one of them ever saw the maps or ever handled 
 them ; it was all done, as is clearly shown, by the Secre- 
 tary of the Board himself. 
 
 I ought to comment on one further fact, and that is, 
 of the four thousand maps printed from this plate four- 
 teen hundred now remain in New York City in the 
 possession of Francis & Loutrell, so that twenty-six hun- 
 
OLIVER KELLEY. 711 
 
 dred is the most that could possibly have come from 
 them to this State. The State has paid for twleve 
 thousand of those printed from that plate. The entire 
 cost of this map, paid in the difierent ways I have men- 
 tioned, to the State, at the present time, as I figure it, is 
 $11,219. 
 
 Oliver Kelley sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Were you a member of the State Board of Assessors ? A. 
 ITes, sir. 
 
 Q. During what period ? A. I think I was a member in the 
 spring of 1891. 
 
 Q. And four years until 1895? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know anything about the ordering of these maps 
 of the railroads of New Jersey? A. No, I didn't, only what 
 come in the usual way; I went in the office in 1891 a new mem- 
 ber, and listened somewhat to the older members and to the 
 secretary, whom I had the utmost confidence in ; supposed what 
 he placed before us for was correct. 
 
 Q. Did the matter of purchasing the maps come up for dis- 
 cussion before the Board at any time when you were present? 
 A. I don't remember that exactly ; I think matters pertaining to 
 the office in the way of any supplies naturally came up — must 
 have. 
 
 Q. Do You know that the report contained every year a clause 
 saying, " we have readopted this map and it will accompany our 
 report?" A. Yes, sir, I think that I did; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You didn't draw that? No, sir. 
 
 Q. Who drew the report? A. Well, I couldn't tell you at 
 that time. 
 
 Q. But you signed it annually ? A. The report, yes, sir ; I 
 think the President, I don't know but what the secretary oc- 
 casionally. 
 
 Q. Were you aware that these maps were being paid for year 
 after year without being actually delivered to the State ? A. 
 No, sir; I supposed they were, without a doubt. 
 
 Q. When did you first learn that? A. I never learned of it 
 until this discussion came up. 
 
 Q. You supposed the Board was furnished with what was 
 paid for? A. Most decidedly. 
 
 Q. I suppose you gave no personal attention to it? A. Not 
 particularly ; I had the utmost confidence in the secretary ; if I 
 hadn't I would have questioned every act that he done. 
 
712 OLIVER KELLEY. 
 
 Q. And it was left to his charge? A. His charge; yes, sir. 
 Q. Did you know that the Board was paying for the telephone 
 in his house 1 A. \ did not ; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you know that the State was paying for the returns to 
 writs of certiorari where the railroads were questioning their 
 taxes ? A. Well, I didn't Know, but I knew that there was 
 certioraris, and between the Secretary and the Attorney-General's 
 office I didn't know. 
 
 Q. You paid no particular attention to that? A. No; I had 
 confidence in him that he wouldn't bring a bill in for a few dol- 
 lars more or less; if I hadn't had the utmost confidence in him,. 
 I should have taken different steps in regard to it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In regard to this map, by totaling up 
 the different items that have been proved here of the 
 cost of making the original stone and printing the dif- 
 ferent editions, the entire amount from the beginning 
 to now seems to be $892.13. That, however, necessarily 
 excludes the cost of making the metal plate, which we 
 do not know. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Was that necessary, when they 
 had the original stone ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Undoubtedly the editions could have 
 been ordered from Thomas & Wylie. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Why not order another edition 
 right from them then ? 
 Q. I show you a bill, being voucher 1813, March, 1890, being 
 a bill of the Pullman Palace Car Company to the State of Board 
 of Assessors for $488.33, expenses and car service on the inspec- 
 tion of the railroads in the State of New Jersey during 1889 ; 
 what was that for? A. That was before my time. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I call the attention of the Committee to 
 the law creating this Board, which provides that the 
 State Board of Assessors shall have free transportation 
 over all the railroads of New Jersey for the purpose of 
 making inspections and making their valuations and 
 examinations of properties, to be found in the act of 
 1884 creating the Board. 
 
 I offer in evidence the bill marked " Exhibit 255." 
 The bill is this : " New York, December 4, 1889. New 
 Jersey State Board of Assessors, to Pullman Palace Car 
 Company, by H. C. Billings, superintendent, to expenses 
 and car service on inspection of railroads in the State 
 of New Jersey during 1889, $488.33. Correct. H. C. 
 
OLIVER KBLLEY. 713 
 
 BillingB, Jr., superintendent. Correct for $488.33, F. 
 H. Wismer, A. M. Reynolds, committee on audit." 
 "Approved. A. G. Cattell, State Board of Assessors. 
 Paid." 
 
 Mr. Van Cleel in his testimony the other day volun- 
 teered several statements of matters which he was not 
 questioned about, and as he has said that he intended 
 to make some statement, and he has mentioned those 
 matters, I will offer in evidence the bills referring to the 
 matters to which he referred. 
 
 One of the matters was the bills which he rendered 
 to the State for taking the affidavits for the Miscellane- 
 ous Corporation proceedings before the Chancellor. 
 The bills are these : 
 
 "November 17, 1890, preparing and taking affidavits 
 of Miscellaneous Corporation cases, 170 affidavits, 
 $42.50." " Exhibit 256." 
 
 " May 12, 1890, taking affidavits and testimony, 
 $140." " Exhibit 257." 
 
 " June, 1891, taking 168 affidavits, $42." " Exhibit 
 258." 
 
 " November 5, 1891, 158 affidavits, $39.50." " Exhibit 
 259." 
 
 " February 6, 1892, taking affidavits, $55.50." " Ex- 
 hibit 260." 
 
 "August 29, 1893, taking 198 affidavits, $49.50." 
 " Exhibit 261." 
 
 "February 13, 1894, taking 150 affidavits, $37.50." 
 "Exhibit 262." 
 
 There are sundry bills here for legal services, taking 
 testimony, and a variety of other things ; I don't know 
 that I care to offer them. I have Colonel Van Cleef 's 
 vouchers all here, which are quite numerous. 
 
 Recess. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I understand that Mr. Wismer, the 
 witness who was absent this morning, is now here. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — In justice to Mr. Wiemer it is 
 but fair to state that he sent a message to the Chairman, 
 stating that he would be here at 12 o'clock. The Chair- 
 man did not receive the message, however. 
 
714 PEBDINAND H. WISMEE. 
 
 Ferdinand H. Wismbk, sworo. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You were a member of the State Board of AssesBors? A. 
 I have been. 
 
 Q. During what years? A. From 1887 to 1895. 
 
 Q. Were you chairman of the Board ? A. The last two years 
 I was. 
 
 Q. Were you in the Board when they first adopted the map of 
 the railroads of New Jersey? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. That was first adopted before you went there? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Did you know that they adopted it in their report from 
 year to year? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Re-adopted it every year? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it a subject under discussion in the Board ? A. Not 
 that I know of ; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever know anything about the details of furnishing 
 the maps t A. 1 did not. 
 
 Q. Did you know who furnished them? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who? A. Van Cleef and Betts. 
 
 Q. You knew that the maps came from them every year? A. 
 Yes, sir, because the first new maps which we had when I came 
 in they had their names on. 
 
 • Q. That was the year the map was published? A. Well, that 
 is it; I came in shortly after the maps had been ordered. 
 
 Q. Did you know that the map was afterwaads revised. A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. More than once ? JL. I don't know more than once ; I 
 can't say; I know once, because it was made a trifle smaller. 
 
 Q. Who made it? A. I can't tell. 
 
 Q. Don't know who took charge of it? A. Mr. Van Cleef, I 
 presume. 
 
 Q. You knew that bills came in for the maps every year ? A. 
 Well, I don't know whether the bills came to the Board or 
 whether they went with the reports. 
 
 Q. You supposed that the maps that were billed to the State 
 had all been supplied, did you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You didn't know that the maps had never been famished? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. But you did know that Van Cleef & Betts were the owners 
 and got the money ? A. Yes, sir, presumably they got the 
 money. 
 
 Q. When did you first learn that more maps had been billed 
 
FERDINAND H. WISMER. 715 
 
 to the State than had been received? A. When I seen an 
 account in the newspapers of the investigation here. 
 
 Q. Did you know that the State was paying for Mr. Van 
 Cleefs telephone in his house? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you know the State was paying for the returns to 
 certioraris? A. I think I did, yes, sir; I think I heard Mr. Van 
 Cleef say that he received a small fee for the return of certain 
 certioraris ; I couldn't say now whether they were railroad cer- 
 tioraris or whether they belonged to his private practice. 
 
 Q. You only heard him epeak of it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. Mr. "Wismer, you are the only member of the Board that 
 said he believed Van Cleef and Betts were furnishing these maps. 
 Do I understand you to say that? A. No; they furnished them 
 originally. 
 
 Q. But I understood you to say that you understood and be- 
 lieved that Van Cleef and Betts furnished this map to the State? 
 A. The first map I am speaking of; the one which I found in the 
 possession of the Board when I became a member. 
 
 Q. You found it there ; you were President of the Board for 
 two years ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know that these maps were furnished to the State ? 
 A. Well, I had a right to presume that they were. 
 
 Q. By what right ? A. Because we always had all the maps 
 that were called for to be sent to different parties. 
 
 Q. But, as President of the Board, I would like to know 
 whether you gave any attention whatever to the duties of this 
 position or not, or whether vou simpfy accepted what the clerks 
 or secretary of this Board said as to the facts of the office. A. 
 Attention to what ? 
 
 Q. Just such details as this expense, which has cost the State 
 of New Jersey between eight and ten thousand dollars for goods 
 they never received. I want to know whether as President of 
 the Board you gave any attention, or whether you took it upon 
 the certificate of the secretary, that these maps were furnished ? 
 A. I never counted any maps. 
 
 Q. But you occupied the position of President of the Board ? 
 A. Yee, sir. 
 
 Q. What were your duties as president, simply to draw your 
 salary, or simply to give your attention to the details of the 
 office ? A. No ; my principal duties were to attend to the de- 
 tails of the assessments of railroads and miscellaneous corpora- 
 tions. 
 
716 FERDINAND H. WISMER. 
 
 Q. Aud 80, therefore you didn't give your time to the clerical 
 duties of the office? A. No, sir; uo clerical duties; I don't 
 understand that. 
 
 Q. You didn't, as President of the Board, supervise the details 
 of the office? A. Well, yes; to some extent, certainly; 
 
 Q. "Well, to what extent ? A. As far as I considered it neces- 
 sary to fill the position which I held. 
 
 Q. Then you believed the certificate of the secretary that he 
 had furnished each year six thousand maps to the State, that that 
 certificate was sufficient for you as a member of the Board to ap- 
 prove ? A. Well, I didn't certify to the correctness of having six 
 thousand maps furnished every year. 
 
 Q. No, possibly not, but yet, as I understand, as President of 
 this Board, and for the Board each year to recommend in your re- 
 port that additional maps be furnished, wasn't it your place as a 
 member of the Board to know whether six thousand maps had 
 been furnished, and whether they were necessary for the State to 
 have ? A. In this case I think that the Board, not only myself 
 but the Board, all the members of the Board, took the word of 
 the secretary. 
 
 Q. That is what I want to get at. A. Because I didn't con- 
 sider it part of my duty to count the maps ; I never counted the 
 reports which we sent. 
 
 Q. No, that is all right ; we don't suppose that you simply 
 counted the maps ; but you as President of the Board ought to 
 have known whether six thousand maps were furnished for your 
 report which you helped to prepare, whether there was any ne- 
 cessity for more maps. 
 
 Senator Daly — May I ask a question ? 
 Senator Skirm — No, not until I get through. 
 
 Q. My question is whether, as President of this Board — you 
 say you didn't count the maps ; of course you didn't count the 
 maps ; nobody else would count the maps, and it appears for 
 eight years nobody has counted the maps — but what I asked 
 you, as President of the Board, whether it was not your duty to 
 know whether these maps were ordered when, in your report, 
 you recommended that additional numbers be purchased ? A. 
 All I have to answer to this is, that at different periods large 
 rolls of those maps were brought into our office, at least I seen 
 them there, and the other members, I guess, the same way — 
 whether there were two thousand or five thousand, that I 
 couldn't say. After that all the reports and maps were all taken 
 into our vault, which I have never seen ; I have never been 
 inside of it. 
 
FERDINAND H. WISMER. 717 
 
 Q. No, there hasn't been any furnished, according to the evi- 
 dence ; there were six thousand maps originally ; they lasted 
 from 1887 to 1892, and then there has been twenty-six hundred 
 maps furnished since ; so that you couldn't have seen many rolls 
 of maps during these years while you were President ? A. That 
 is what I say ; I don't think we ever got six thousand maps a 
 year during my presidency ; I don't think they were ordered; 
 I don't think they were paid for by the State, neither, not to that 
 extent — not at the rate of six thousand. 
 
 Q. For many years they were? A. I am speaking of the two 
 years which I was President. 
 
 Q. What years were you President? A. 1893 and 1894. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. We have a voucher here showing that the State Board of 
 Assessors audited a bill of |488 of the Pullman Palace Car Com- 
 pany, for 1889, and it was paid. What was it for? A. Why, 
 that must have been for an extended inspection trip which the 
 Board made ; I remember it, because it was the only trip which 
 took as long as that did during my whole time. 
 
 Q. Have a special train of Pullman cars ? A. Well, it was, in 
 a number of cases, if I remember right; that is, just a Pullman 
 car and an engine, and in some sections or parts of our trip, I 
 think, it was attached to a main train ; but we used this Pullman 
 car as a kind of a hotel, too; we slept in it, a number of nights, 
 different places. 
 
 Q. And it was the car company's bill for the service 1 A. 1 
 presume so. That came about in this way ; before I became a 
 member of the Board, the Pullman Company had furnished 
 passes to the members of the State Board; the Board had 
 assessed the company, and they commenced proceedings against 
 the assessment. 
 
 Q. And they didn't give you passes afterwards ? A. I think 
 it was Judge McDermott who contested or defended, or had the 
 case for the State ; anyway, they didn't give any passes after- 
 wards; and when this extended inspection had to be made it 
 was considered cheapest and the best way to have that Pullman 
 car. 
 
 Q. You didn't take a special train of three Pullman cars at 
 times? A. I don't think we ever did; I don't think — we got to 
 Trenton once when we changed there from the northern part of 
 the State to the southern, or vice versa, and that Pullman car got 
 bad and we laid here four or five hours for another one to be sent. 
 
718 FERDINAND H. WISMER. 
 
 Q. I asked you whether you did not at times take a special 
 train of Pullman cars, of three ears? A. 'So, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — How long a time did you have the 
 Pullman cars that amounted to $488, was it months ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Well, how long a time? A. The 
 longest trip we made, I couldn't tell, now, except approximately ; 
 it may have been twelve days, it may have been ten days — only I 
 know it was over a week; of course there were sleepers and 
 everything. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — When your Board passed these claims 
 for maps and paid these printers' bills ot course you had before 
 you the bills and an ordinary affidavit attached to it that the 
 things were furnished ? A. Certainly. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Now, then, I would like to ask you — 
 Senator Daly — ISTow, you hold on ; you stopped me a 
 while ago. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Now, sir, when the affidavit of Mr. 
 Murphy was presented to you, signed by Mr. John L. Murphy, 
 you assumed that he swore to the truth, didn't you? A. Cer- 
 tainly. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — And the other affidavits that were pre- 
 sented to you by these publishers swearing that the goods had 
 been furnished, you believed them, didn't you, that they were 
 swearing to the truth? A. Surely; yes, sir. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. Then I would like to ask you whether these bills of John 
 L. Murphy Company and Sinnickson Chew, and MacCrellish & 
 Quigley ever came before your Board for your approval. That is 
 the question that Senator Daly asked, that when you approved 
 the bill — now, did you ever approve a bill for these maps ? ^. I 
 can only speak of the two years during which I was President. 
 
 Q. Did you approve those bills? A. I couldn't tell. 
 
 Q. But you said a moment ago that you did. A. All bills — 
 I thought Senator Daly's question was a general question. 
 
 Q. ISTo; it was specific. I only asked you to answer the ques- 
 tion whether you ever certified it in the bills for printing maps. 
 A. I couldn't tell you unless I seen them. 
 
 Q. But you answered the question a moment ago that you 
 generally supposed, of course, that these printers when they 
 made their affidavit swore to the truth. Now, the fact is that 
 you never saw those bills ? J.. I can't say. 
 
 Q. Of course not; they never came to you. A. Perhaps n:)t. 
 
FBEDINAND H. WISMER. 719 
 
 Q. Therefore your answer to that was not relevant. A. I bej; 
 pardon, because I understood Senator Daly's question to mean if 
 one of those bills was presented to me for approval and they had 
 a proper certification on them, whether I took their affidavit as 
 being sufficient, and I said yes. 
 
 Q. You are mistaken, because those bills — A. I beg your 
 pardon, I was not, because I now refer to all bills. 
 
 Q. No, but printing bills, and maps, that these bills were paid 
 by Comptrollers. A. The Senator didn't say the bills tor print- 
 ing maps ; he asked about general bills. 
 
 Q. Then I will ask you what Senator Daly did ; when these 
 printing bills came to you, did you certify to all printing bills ? 
 A. I could only tell you — 
 
 Q. No — you know whether you certified to these bills or not ? 
 A. I couldn't, for thei very reason that there were a number of 
 bills ; a number of bills I had to certify to at different times ; 
 how can you expect me to remember any one particular bill ? If 
 you find my signature on it, then — 
 
 Q. You remembered a moment ago when you answered 
 Senator Daly, the one bill of June 1, 1891, and that is the only 
 bill that has been certified to, and that was certified by General 
 Spencer and Mr. Wismer, but all other bills went through the 
 regular channel, because Mr. Heppenheimer, as Comptroller, 
 rejected the bills, and that one, of course — that is the only one of 
 the eight years — A. Yes; I was a member of the Auditing 
 Committee. 
 
 Q. And that is the only bill which bears your audit; that wa^* 
 what excited a remark this morning, and I thought that this bill 
 was the only bill that had any certificate of the State Board of 
 Assessors, and that the other bills simply went in with the print- 
 ing and was certified by the Comptroller, and, therefore, this was 
 the only bill that you must have certified to with reference to 
 these maps ? A. As regards the maps ; well, may be as President 
 I signed bills; I can't say. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — As a matter of fact, this was 
 the only bill that went before the Board. 
 
 Examined by Me. Coebin. 
 
 Q. You speak of the affidavits and said you depended upon 
 the affidavits attached to the bills ; when you audited the bills 
 did you take pains to see that they were properly sworn to and 
 attested? A. At times they were sworn to right in my presence, 
 and I know that in many cases bills would be received — small 
 
720 FERDINAND H. WISMEK. 
 
 bills, we haven't any large bills any way, small bills, and would 
 be copied on a form which our Secretary had. 
 
 Q. You don't answer my question. Was it your custom to 
 look at the bills to see if they had been sworn to? A. Why, no, 
 many bills came without any affidavit. 
 
 Q. Did you approve them without any affidavit or send them 
 back 1 A. 1 approved them when they were small bills, express 
 bills, telephone bills. 
 
 Q. How is it that all Col. Van Cleef 's bills, a very large num- 
 ber of them, have no affidavit attached to them? A. It should 
 have been attached before it was paid. 
 
 Q. I tbink there isn't one out of the entire number that has 
 an affidavit. A. I did't consider that my duty ; I thought you 
 know, that wnen a bill was audited and signed and sent back 
 before the parties got paid they would have to fix that. 
 
 Q. If the Secretary of the Board said it was correct you 
 signed it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And whether it was his bill or anybody's else bill the Board 
 signed it if he said it was right? A. I don't know that he ever 
 had any personal bills. 
 
 Q. No; but his handwriting appears on all these bills. You 
 didn't know that he had any personal bills ? A. Except for ex- 
 penses. 
 
 Q. Didn't you know that he had a whole file full of them? 
 For instance, here is one, which is the sample of a great many, 
 "Voucher of 1889, to John T. Van Cleef, for disbursements." 
 You certified to that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It isn't sworn to? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, now, all his bills are in the same condition,' and there 
 is a very large number; don't you remember any of them? A. 
 I remember some of them; I remenber this when I see it; Sena- 
 tor Cattell was President of the Board then. 
 
 Q. You didn't require of him to swear to his bills, did you ? 
 A. The party who was paid by the Comptroller I thought did 
 that. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — Here is an affidavit, sworn to by John 
 L. Murphy, that the within account is correct and just, and that 
 the maps and envelopes were furnished, and signed John L. 
 Murphy ; you believed that, didn't you ? A. This affidavit may 
 have been taken after the bill was approved. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — That is your signature to it, and that 
 one to that bill is dated June 1st, and the affidavit of June 16th. 
 Upon what did you approve that bill, upon the strength of the 
 affidavit of the gentleman alleged to have furnished the goods? 
 
FERDINAND H. WI8MER. 721 
 
 A. No, I can't say that, because [ don't know whether this affi- 
 davit had been taken when we signed and approved the bill. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That bill is approved on June Ist 
 and sworn to on June 16th; how can you do that? 
 
 Senator Daly — Let me correct the gentleman from 
 Mercer; it don't say it was approved on the first day of 
 June; that is the date of the bill; the aflidavit is taken 
 on the 16th ; and the presumption would be it was ap- 
 proved on the day on which the affidavit was taken. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The long and short of it is that 
 you relied almost entirely upon representations of the 
 Secretary as to the correctness of these bills. 
 
 Witness — Well, yes, sir ; that is about the effect of it. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Before we call another witness I 
 think we ought to make a little statement concerning 
 what transpired just before the noon recess. 
 
 The impression has gone out that this Committee is 
 willing to take written statements from parties instead 
 of verbal testimony, and I find that that impression has 
 gone out pretty generally and unfavorably. I think it 
 ought to be understood that if the Committee accepts 
 any statement of that kind it abates none of its rights 
 to place the person upon the stand and secure any and 
 all kinds of testimony that may be had. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I don't understand that this Com- 
 mittee has agreed upon anything. That statement was 
 made this morning that a gentleman was preparing a 
 written statement. I don't think the Committee has 
 taken any action upon it, and if the impression has gone 
 out that the Committee mean to do that, the impression 
 is entirely erroneous as far as one member of the Com- 
 mittee is concerned. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — You can count a majority of 
 the members of the Committee with you. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — And several members of the Com- 
 mittee expressly said that they wouldn't accept such a 
 statement as a full and final answer. 
 
 Senator Daly — Is this for the benefit of the record ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Yes; if Senator Daly wants to 
 go on record he may. 
 
 Senator Daly — I have no impressions to put forward ; 
 all I am waiting for is developments. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Let it go on with the develop- 
 ments. 
 
 46 8 H 
 
722 PARDONS AND PAKOLES. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Chairman, I desire to open before- 
 the Committee an entirely different subject. The deli- 
 cate character of it I fully appreciate, and the gravity 
 and importance of it will be quite obvious to anyone 
 when it is open. 
 
 I have laid such evidence as has come before me be- 
 fore the members of the Committee, and their judgment 
 accords with my own that the Committee should put 
 the testimony on record. It touches the Executive De- 
 partment of the the Government and has to do with the 
 subject of pardons and paroles. 
 
 The Constitution of this State, in Article 5, under the 
 head of Executive, has this provision in Section 10 : 
 
 " The Governor, or person administering the Govern- 
 ment, the Chancellor and six judges of the Court of 
 Errors and Appeals, or a majority of them, of whom the 
 Governor or the person administering the Government 
 shall be one, may remit fines and forfeitures and grant 
 pardons after conviction in all cases except impeach- 
 ment." 
 
 An act was passed in 1853 after the adoption of this 
 Constitution which calls this Board of Pardons a court ; 
 it is not a court as established by the Constitution, but 
 an executive board, and all that is said about it in the 
 constitution is under the head of the Executive Depart- 
 ment. 
 
 In 1853 it was provided that this Board should here- 
 [,.,■ after be called the Court of Pardons, and that its rec- 
 
 ords should be open to inspection. That will be found 
 in the Revision, page 794. In 1881, supplement to the 
 Revision, page 783, an act was passed providing that a 
 prisoner who had served out his full term might apply 
 to the court for pardon and restoration to his rights, 
 and that that prisoner might be heard in person before 
 the Court of Pardons or by one counsel. In 1887, on 
 page 246 of the acts of that year, it is provided that 
 hereafter the records of the Court of Pardons should be 
 public records and open to the inspection of the public 
 in the same manner as the records of other courts in 
 this State. 
 
 The evidence which I shall produce — much of it — has 
 been matter of common property about the streets, mat- 
 ter of the commonest rumor, and has become, I might 
 almost say, common scandal ; and as I have said, in lay- 
 
EDWAKD D. FOX. 723 
 
 ing such evidence as has come to me before the mem- 
 bers of the Committee, the Chairman and others, they 
 have said that the evidence should be put upon the rec- 
 ord. 
 
 Edward D. Fox, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Do you hold any office in connection with the Court ot 
 Pardons? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is it? A. Pardon clerk. 
 
 Q. How long have you been pardon clerk? A. I think some 
 twenty odd years. 
 
 Q. What records do you keep in your position, if any? A. I 
 have only the cases presented for pardons and paroles. 
 
 Q. Do you keep the applications for pardon ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the petitions which are presented? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And such papers as the prisoner presents for consideration ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You file them? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where are they preserved and kept? A. They are kept 
 in one part of the vault. 
 
 Q. In what office? A. In the Grovernor's room — in the vault 
 of the Governor's room, one place specially set apart. 
 
 Q. And they are filed in the way these papers are thaf we see 
 here? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. All the papers connected with one case I suppose are filed 
 together ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you any record of the court in your possession except 
 what appears in these paj ers and on these reports ? A. That is 
 the only thing I have, sir. 
 
 Q. Who keeps the minutes of the court ? A. The Secretary 
 of State. 
 
 Q. As clerk of the Court of Pardons? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And has he the record of paroles also ? A. Yes, sir ; gen- 
 erally when a prisoner is paroled or pardoned it is marked on the 
 envelope. 
 
 Q. You have the records of the Governor's office in the mat- 
 ter of the application for pardon of Evangeline Hamilton ? A. 1 
 have, sir. 
 
 Q. Will you produce that ? A. That is it, sir. 
 
 Q. These are the original papers, are they? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I ofler the petition of Eva L. Hamilton, 
 dated February 21st, 1890, and numerously signed; also 
 another one which seems to be a duplicate and has sev- 
 
724 ALEXANDER H. RICKEY. 
 
 eral sigDatures upon it of the same date ; also petition 
 to the (/ourt of Pardons of Evangeline L. Hamilton, 
 without date, but signed Eva L. Hamilton, and William 
 T. Hoflman, her attorney and counsel. 
 
 Also an affidavit of Simon Sternberger, taken in 
 Atlantic county, dated April 14th, 1890. 
 
 Also a letter from Samuel E. Perry, counselor at law, 
 of Atlantic City, to the Governor, dated April 14th, 
 1890, transmitting the papers : 
 ^'Hon. Leon Abbett, Governor of New Jersey : 
 
 My Dear Sir — Enclosed please find affidavit and peti- 
 tion in above case. I am very sincerely yours, Samuel 
 E. Perry." The case is The State vs. Hamilton. 
 
 Also a letter dated Atlantic City, March 2l8t, 1890, 
 addressed to Governor Abbett and signed J. P. Hall, 
 which seems to be a protest against the pardon. 
 Q. Are these all the papers pertaining to that case ? A. Yes, 
 sir; all that I know of. 
 
 Q. And when were they presented to the Court of Pardons? 
 A. They were presented previous to 1890. 
 
 Q. I see that they are dated in February, March or April, 
 1890, and one is without date? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were they presented to the March term of the court in 
 that year? A. Yes, sir; the case came up in the March term. 
 
 Q. I observe that there is a note on the back of your envelope 
 at the bottom. Will you read it? ^. " Passed March 19, 1890." 
 Q. What does " passed " mean ? A. Laid over for another 
 time. 
 
 Q. The pardon was not granted, then, at that term ? A. Ifo, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. What was the next term of that court after the March 
 term, 1890? ^. The June term. 
 
 Q. And what was the next term after that ? A. ISTovember. 
 Q. Did it come up at the June term? A. I don't recollect 
 that it did. 
 
 Q. Who was present, if anybody, prosecuting this application 
 for pardon at the March term, 1890 ? ^. I recollect Judge Hoft- 
 man being there. 
 
 Q. Did he bring the papers? A. Yes, sir; he brought some 
 of them. 
 
 Alexander H. Rickey, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are the Assistant Secretary of State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
ALEXANDER H. RICKEY. 725 
 
 Q. Have you acted as clerk for the Cjurt of Pardons? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long? A. Since January Ist, 1890; soaie time pre- 
 vious, I think, to that time. 
 
 Q. But continuously since that time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are the sessions of the Court of Pardons open or secret ? 
 A. Secret, generally. 
 
 Q. Are counsel ever allowed before them while the court is 
 in session, except in cases under the statute which I have read, 
 for an application for restoration to rights ? A. I don't recollect 
 but one or two. 
 
 Q. You do recollect one or two exceptions to that? A. I 
 think there were one or two exceptions. 
 
 Q. Were counsel allowed before them when they were in ses- 
 sion ? ^. I can't say that when they were in session. 
 
 Q. Well, what do you mean ? A. One ease where they took a 
 recess, and then counsel was heard. 
 
 Q. But while they were actually in session you don't recall a 
 case? A. No, sir; I don't recall a case. 
 
 Q. Have you the minutes of the Court? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Let us see the volumes? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you any record of any application on behalf of Evan- 
 geline Hamilton for the March Term, 1890? A. I have a record 
 here of the pardon, page 526, November 25th, 1890. 
 
 Q. Wow, I asked you for the March Term, 1890? A. No record 
 of that. 
 
 Q. I show you the papers produced by the Pardon Clerk ; is 
 this pencil note at the foot of the envelope your writing? A. It 
 looks something like mine, but I don't think it is, hardly. 
 
 Q. Do you remember the fact of this application coming be- 
 fore the Court in the Spring Term of 1890? A. No; I have no 
 recollection ; I don't recall it. 
 
 Q. Do you recollect the case coming before the Court of Par- 
 dons in the November Term, 1890 l A. 1 don't recollect, except 
 by the minutes. 
 
 Q. Have you the minute of it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. On what page? A. Page 526. 
 
 Q. And the date? A. November 25th, 1890. 
 
 Q. What is the minute? A. The following cases were con- 
 sidered and disposed of as follows: " Evangelina Hamilton, con- 
 victed at Atlantic County Court of the September term, 1889, 
 and sentenced to two years' imprisonment for atrociorns assault, 
 was pardoned." 
 
72G JOHX H. PATTERSON. 
 
 Q. le that all the record you have in the minutes of the Court. 
 A. That is all. 
 
 Q. Do you keep any other record of pardons except these 
 minutes ? A. That is all. 
 
 Q And has the Court no records in your posEessioa except 
 the book of minutes and the book of paroles? A. That is all, 
 
 Q. Do you remember who represented Mrs. Hamtlton ? A. 
 'So. sir. 
 
 Q. At the time in ISTovember, 1890? A. No, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would say to the Committee, for the 
 sake of drawing their attention to this particular case, 
 that I presume they all recollect the case of Mrs. Ham- 
 ilton, who was convicted, I believe, of an atrocious 
 assault upon a servant at Atlantic City. The case was 
 quite famous at the time. She was the wife, or the 
 alleged wife, of Eobert Eay Hamilton, of Kew York, a 
 very prominent gentlemen, and there was a great deal 
 of newspaper talk about the case at the time. 
 
 John H. Patterson, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mu. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are the principal keeper of the State Prison ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And have been for how long? A. Mne years. 
 
 Q. Did you know Evangeline Hamilton, a person who was 
 there for a while? A. I did, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you your prison record hero, showing when she was 
 admitted and when discharged ? J.. I have, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember Mrs. Hamilton making an application 
 for a pardon, in the Spring of 1890? A. I think she made an 
 application every time the Court of Pardons was to meet. 
 
 Q. Who, if anybody, was her counsel ; who came to see her 
 with regard to this first application she made? A. Judge Hoff- 
 man and Colonel Fuller were her counsel. 
 
 Q. Was she visited in the prison by one of those gentlemen, 
 with reference to the subject? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You remember the term when she actually was pardoned, 
 do you not; the November term, 1890? A. I do, sir. 
 
 Q. And you remember being sent for, to come to the Execu- 
 tive offices, with reference to this matter? A. Mr. Corbin, you 
 know I am a reluctant witness. 
 
 Q. I know you are a reluctant witness ? A. Personally, I have 
 nothing to conceal, but it is embarrassing to me. 
 
JOHN H. PATTERSON. 727 
 
 Mr. Cor bin — Mr. Patterson is a witness so reluctant 
 that I think it is only fair that I say here that he has 
 not volunteered any of the information which he has to 
 give. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And which the Committee all have. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — But which has come to me from an 
 entirely difierent source. Mr. Patterson has hesitated 
 long about being brought here, but at his own request 
 I deem it but fair to say that he has volunteered 
 nothing. 
 Q. Were you sent for to come to the Executive offices? A. I 
 was, sir. 
 
 Senator Daly — Mr. Corbin, may I ask you the ques- 
 tion, is this anything in relation to the Executive, what 
 took place between him and the Executive ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Daly — Well, I know of no rules of law that 
 are binding upon this Committee, but we know that the 
 rules of law in a legal tribunal would be respected. 
 Now, if this is any attempt to bring the late Chief 
 Executive's name into controversy here, I desire to 
 enter my protest. He is dead ; he was the Governor of 
 our State, and he was a great jurist, respected by most 
 of our people, and I think we might respect certain 
 rules of law with reference to him, and not attempt to 
 reflect upon one who is dead and cannot appear here to 
 defend himself — and I desire to enter my protest, no 
 matter what the other members of the Committee may 
 do. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't know what rule of law the Sen- 
 ator may have in mind which he thinks is about to be 
 violated ; I also think that the Senator is premature in 
 characterizing the evidence which is about to be pro- 
 duced as afiecting one person or another. 
 
 Senator Daly — I have heard it rumored, and I assume 
 your question was predicated upon something not that 
 had been rumored, but which had been alleged against 
 the Chief Executive, and of course communications of 
 that character which cannot be refuted reflect upon his 
 memory and reflect upon those whom he has left behind, 
 and we might, for once in the session of this Commit- 
 tee, spare him that cannot defeni himself. I don't say 
 this out of any sentiment whatever; I desire to screen 
 no man ; but when the dead cannot defend themselves, 
 
728 JOHN H. PATTERSON. 
 
 and are not here, and as an attempt to smirch them or 
 an attempt to reflect upon them, especially one who has 
 been a great citizen of our State, we might stay thi& 
 hand of criticism upon his official acts. If he were here 
 in the land of the living I would enter no protest. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will only say this, that all the material 
 evidence that I shall offer is capable of refutation by 
 living witnesses. ' 
 Q. You eay you were sent for to come to the Executive office, 
 by whom ? A. By the Governor. 
 
 Q. State what occurred ; did you go? A. I did, sir. 
 Q. Proceed? 
 
 Mr. Allan L. McI>ermott — I do not recognize the 
 right to interrupt the work of this Committee, but if 
 the testimony is in reference to the official action of one 
 who was my friend, and whose memory I yet love, I ask 
 that I be allowed to appear to represent that memory 
 and cross-examine any witnesses with reference to any 
 conversation had with the late Grovernor Abbett. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Committee at the begin- 
 ning of its session laid down the rule that no one should 
 appear before them by counsel. However, if any one 
 felt that he was not safe in the hands of the counsel of 
 the Committee, he might be represented by counsel and 
 the counsel tor the Committee would put any questions 
 that might be asked of him by the counsel represent- 
 ing the person. I don't see any good reason to depart 
 from that rule now. I am sure Mr. Corbin will ask any 
 question that you may suggest by way of cross-exami- 
 nation, and be glad to help you. I think I state it cor- 
 rectly. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is entirely a matter for the Committee. 
 Q. Proceed, Mr. Patterson. A. What is your question? 
 Q. You say the Governor sent for you and you came to the 
 Executive offices, as I understand you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Witb respect to this matter of Eva Hamilton's pardoQ ? 
 A. He told me it was the matter of Eva Hamilton's pardon when 
 I got tbere; I dida't know what he sent for me for. 
 
 Q. What did he say to you and did you say to him ? A. Well, 
 he asked me who were the counsel of Mrs. Hamilton ; I told him, 
 and he recommended General Heppenheimer. 
 
 Q. What did he say ? J . He said that he didn't think that 
 they would succeed. 
 
JOHN H. PATTEKSON. 729 
 
 Q. What further did he say ? A. That was the Bubstance of 
 all that he did say. 
 
 Q. Did you make any reply? A. I told him that I didn't 
 know anything about it; I hadn't anything to do with advising 
 her who to employ as counsel ; she already had counsel employed. 
 
 Q. Did you say anything further ; did you agree to make the 
 recommendation, or decline 1 A. 1 did not ; I declined to make 
 the recommendation. 
 
 Q. Did you, in fact, recommend her to employ Mr. Heppen- 
 heimer? A. I did not, sir. 
 
 Q. When did you first see her ? A. Some days afterwards ; 
 she sent for me. 
 
 Q. Well, what took place? A. She said she had been advised 
 to employ General Heppenheimer, and directed me to retain him 
 and give him a thousand dollars. 
 
 Q. Did you have funds of hers in your hands at that time ? 
 A. I did, sir. 
 
 Q. As much as a thousand dollars? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What did you do ? A. 1 gave the check to General Hep- 
 penheimer. 
 
 Q. Have you the check ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where did you see General Heppenheimer? A. At his 
 office in New York. 
 
 Q. Where in New York ? A. At the corner of Barclay and 
 Broadway, I think. 
 
 Q. 229 Broadway ? ^. 1 think that is the place, sir. 
 
 Q. The same building in which the Governor's office was ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Adjacent to it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is this the check which you gave to Mr. Heppenheimer? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you give it to him personally 1 A. 1 did, sir. 
 
 " Trenton, N. J., November 13, 1890. The Trenton 
 Banking Company. Pay to the order of Russ & Hep- 
 penheimer one thousand dollars. John H. Patterson." 
 Endorsed for deposit, " Russ & Heppenheimer." 
 Offered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 260." 
 
 Q. You went to New York for this purpose, did you ? A. I 
 did, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you advise Mrs. Hamilton with reference to it? A. 1 
 did not, sir ; yes, sir, I did ; I told Mrs. Hamilton she already 
 had counsel, and advised her to save her thousand dollars. 
 
 Q. You advised her against doing this? A. I did; she was 
 going out ; her time expired in a few months. 
 
730 JOHN H. PATTEESON. 
 
 Q. What did you say to Mr. Heppenheimer when you gave 
 him this check? A. I don't remember, sir, what I said. 
 
 Q. Do you remember what he said to you? A. I do not. 
 
 Q. Did you tell him what it was for? A. He knew what it 
 was for. 
 
 Q. How did he know ? A. Because he had been, I suppose, 
 notified that he was employed ; I don't know how he knew it. 
 
 Q. But you say he knew; he seemed to expect it, did he ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. "Who informed Mrs. Hamilton that she ought to employ 
 him ? A. That I don't know, sir. 
 
 Q. But she had had information before you saw her? A. She 
 must have had it; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Heppenheimer ever call upon her after that, pre- 
 vious to her pardon ? J.. I don't remember. 
 
 Q. Would you be likely to know it if he had ? A. He might 
 have called some time when I wasn't at home. 
 
 Q. When did you give him this check ; was it the day of its 
 date? A. I presume so, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you draw it there in his presence, or here in Trenton ? 
 A. I think it was drawn there in his presence. 
 
 Q. Then it was November 13th ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the pardon wag granted November 25th? A. The 
 books will show. (The prison record produced is on page 50. 
 Evangeline Hamilton, atrocious assault, received October 5, 1889, 
 white, age 29 ; from Atlantic County, and other details. The 
 last entry is under the head of " Discharged ; " pardoned twenty- 
 fifth November, 1890). 
 
 Q. Did Mr. Heppenheimer obtain any copy of the prison rec- 
 ord from you ? No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he obtain anything from your office with reference to 
 this matter that you know of ? A. 1 don't remember, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you see him with reference to this subject again before 
 the pardon ? 4. I never did. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Allan McDermott. 
 
 Q. How many days before the expiration of the term under 
 the sentence was she pardoned ? A. The record will show that. 
 
 Q. When would her term have expired? A. She would have 
 gone out on the 17th day of January, 1891. 
 
 Q. When did she go out? A. 25th day of November, 1890. 
 
 Q. She was pardoned less than two months, then, before the 
 expiration of her term? A. Yes, sir. 
 
JOHN H. PATTERSON. 731 
 
 Q. Is it your custom to keep the money of the prisoners in the 
 State Prison in your custody and dishurse it under their order? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And have you disbursed money for prisoners there, for 
 counsel fees, before, in other cases? A. No, sir. Well, the 
 money has been disbursed there, but the clerk keeps it; he is 
 the custodian of the money. 
 
 Q. You know of moneys being paid to counsel from the fund 
 that belonged to prisoners there, didn't you ? A. Sometimes I 
 signed orders. 
 
 Q. In this case the money was in your possession, and you did 
 what the owner directed you to do? A. I did. 
 
 Q. You drew the check to the order of the firm of Russ & 
 Heppenheimor? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you know that, at that time, there was a contest pend- 
 ing concerning the will of the alleged husband of this woman, 
 Hamilton, in New York? A. I did, sir. 
 
 Q. Were Russ & Heppenheimer her counsel at that time ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Representing her in that suit in New York? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. I would like to ask Mr. Patterson this: You spoke a little 
 while ago of the objection to Mrs. Hamilton's counsel ; who 
 were the counsel, originally ? A. Judge Hoffman. 
 
 Q. What Judge HoflFman? A. Judge William T. Hofiman. 
 Q. And who else ? A. And afterwards Col. Fuller. 
 Q. Both those gentlemen were her attorneys ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And she was making an effort to get a pardon through 
 these people ? A. They were her counsel attending to the busi- 
 ness. 
 
 Q. And then afterwards this gentleman, Mr. Heppenheimer, 
 was substituted in place of Mr. Fuller and Judge Hoffman, or 
 simply an addition ? A. He was employed — he was just an ad- 
 dition, I suppose ; I don't know. 
 
 Q. In other words, they had failed, or hadn't succeeded, and 
 therefore Heppenheimer was called in as additional counsel ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't know what the ruling of the 
 Committee is. I understood Mr. McDermott's request 
 to be that on matters touching the Governor he wanted 
 to ask questions ; but if we are going into a trial of any 
 particular issue, we ought to frame it, and how far the 
 Committee want to depart from their heretofore estab- 
 lished rules in that respect is for the Committee to say. 
 
732 PARDONS AND PAROLES. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — They dou't want to depart from 
 that at all. The queBtions were asked in your presence. 
 We thought when they were objectionable you would 
 interpose an objection. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If the questions were to be asked 
 through me they should be handed up in writing, and I 
 will ask them. Of course a mere repetition of the 
 language by me taken from Mr. McDermott's mouth 
 would be ridiculous. That I wouldn't do. I am at the 
 service of the Committee. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Committee do not want to 
 depart from the rule that has been laid down. 
 
 Mr. McDermott — I only wish to understand the 
 privilege I have. The testimony offered by Mr. Corbin, 
 as the Chairman of this Committee knows, and as Mr. 
 Corbin kuows, would be excluded in any court; any 
 testimony of a conversation with a person deceased can- 
 not be produced in any court of law. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is new law to me. 
 
 Mr. McDermott — It may be new law for you. No 
 person can testify to a conversation with a deceased 
 party. At the opening by Mr. Corbin of this branch of 
 the investigation there could be no misunderstanding 
 of the innuendo that the investigation was an assault 
 upon the Executive Office and upon the manner in 
 which the duties of the Executive were performed in 
 the Court of Pardons. 
 
 The testimony concerning the conversation with an 
 Executive undoubtedly was offered in support of that 
 opening. The Executive is not a party ; he is beyond 
 the jurisdiction of this Committee, and yet the jurisdic- 
 tion of this Committee is a peculiar one. It is one in 
 which the appeal is to the public sentiment, and the 
 assault upon the memory of Governor Abbett in the 
 opening surely justified a request that those witnesses 
 who followed the suggestion of counsel by testimony 
 might be cross-examined, in ord«r that the public in- 
 fluence which goes from this chamber to the public 
 might not be in the form of a one-sided libel upon the 
 memory of a man who did more for the State of New 
 Jersey than all the men who have occupied the Execu- 
 Chamber from the day of the adoption of the Constitu- 
 tion to this moment; a man who made its treasury rich, 
 and a man who made this State what it is. I ask the 
 
PARDONS AND PAROLES. 733 
 
 privilege of examining such witnesses as should give 
 testimony in support of the suggestive opening of 
 counsel. I am aware that I must submit my question 
 to the counsel, and I am perfectly willing to do that. 
 I don't ask the counsel to show the slightest favor in 
 putting or refusing to put the question, and I only ask 
 that I may be allowed to ask questions on points that did 
 reflect upon that memory. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Counsel has assumed altogether too 
 much as to what the opening meant, and altogether too 
 much as to what the evidence is going to be. If politi- 
 cal harangues are to be ofiered here before this Com- 
 mittee I don't see how we are going to get along. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I think they will not be tolerated 
 very long. 
 
 Senator Daly — I don't understand that this Committee 
 is to sit to make political capital, either. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir; I propose to offer facts. I don't 
 propose to characterize them, and I don't propose to 
 open them any further than I have, but I did make a 
 statement which counsel has lost sight of, that the ma- 
 terial facts which I will produce are capable of refuta- 
 tion by people who are still alive. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Judge can readily see how 
 embarrassed the Committee will be if every one whose 
 name is mentioned feels it necessary to be represented 
 by counsel and submit evidence and cross-examination, 
 and as long as he has expressed his willingness to put 
 his questions through the counsel of the Committee, I 
 think we can get along very amicably without any fur- 
 ther trouble. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Why, this whole thing is in the nature 
 of a cross-examination ; there is scarcely a willing wit- 
 ness here. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — There is no desire on your part 
 to reflect on the memory of the living or the dead. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The statement that a libel is intended 
 here is one that the Committee cannot let pass without 
 resenting, and certainly counsel will not. This investi- 
 gation shall be conducted honestly, and I shall attempt 
 to conduct it fairly as tar as I have anything to do with 
 it. What facts mean and how to characterize them, is 
 a matter that is not within my duty at this time, but I 
 cannot flinch from presenting them, nor shall I. 
 
734 EDWARD D FOX CHARLES W. P0LLEE. 
 
 Edward D. Yox, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. When the matter of Evangeline Hamilton's pardon came 
 up in November, 1890, who appeared, if anybody, for the peti- 
 tioner ? A. To the best of my recollection, Mr. Heppenheimer 
 was there once. 
 
 Q. Did he go before the court ? J.. I think not, sir. 
 
 Q. Was he there the day she was pardoned 1 A. I think it 
 was the day she was pardoned, to the best of my recollection. 
 
 Q. Did he produce any additional documents to those you 
 have already shown us ? A. iTone that I saw, sir. 
 
 Q. Who did he see? A. I think he saw the Governor and 
 the members of the court. 
 
 Q. Before convening? A. I think he saw the Governor before 
 convening; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was there any formal argument? A. Not that I know of, 
 sir ; it was in the other room. 
 
 Q. But I understand you to say that he didn't go before the 
 court when in session? A. No, sir, he didn't go to the court at 
 all. 
 
 Q. What else did he do? A. Well, I don't know anything 
 that he done, or what he had to say to the Governor or the 
 members of the court; I think he saw some of the individual 
 members; I know that he saw the Governor. 
 
 Examined by Senator Daly. 
 
 Q. The manner of importuning the court in the case of pardon, 
 how is that done? A. It is done by seeing the Governor and the 
 individual members of the court. 
 
 Q. And speaking to them separately? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Tnat is the only manner of conducting applications for 
 pardon that you know of? A. That is generally the manner of 
 doing it. 
 
 Q. That is done at every session of the Court of Pardons ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In fact, your humble servant has frequently done it. 
 
 Charles W. Fuller, sworn. 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Do you know Evangeline Hamilton ? A. Yes, sir; I did. 
 Q. Were you her counsel at one time? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. In New Jersey or New York ? A. In New York only. 
 Q. Did you have anything to do with her criminal defense or 
 the obtaining of the pardon ? A. No, sir. 
 
CHARLES W. FULLER. 735 
 
 Q. There was a contest in New York relative to the estate of 
 Robert Ray Hamilton, was there not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it in that connection that you were her counsel? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were you aware that Rusa & Heppenheimer were retained 
 in that matter? A. They never were in that matter, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you visit Mrs. Hamilton while she was in prison. A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you know that she had made an application in the 
 spring of 1890 for a pardon? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you know that it had been unsuccessful ? J.. I knew 
 that it had not been acted upon, because she was still there. 
 
 Q. And you knew that it came up again iu November, 1890, 
 did you not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you personally see any members of the Court of Par- 
 dons with reference to her ease ? A. Members of the Court of 
 Pardons spoke to me about the case. 
 
 Q. Which members? A. Now, I would like very much if the 
 Committee would excuse me from going into that. I don't want 
 to be here in the first place, and in the second place it might be 
 that what the members of the court said to me about the case 
 was something that I ought not to say. 
 
 Q. If there is anything, of course, that touches your relation 
 with a client, which, in your judgment, you should not divulge, 
 of course, that is for you to say; you said that certain members 
 of the Court of Pardons spoke to you about it? A. Now, let me 
 explain to the Committee that position. Judge Hoffman had 
 been retained as Mrs. Hamilton's counsel in all her matters. 
 Judge Hoffman retained me to look after the New York end of 
 the litigation. I was interested in obtaining the presence of 
 Mrs. Hamilton in the latter part of November — in about the 
 middle of November, I think — in New York City, at the time 
 they oflered this will for probate; so that what I said to the 
 judges, or the judges said to me, was simply what would 
 naturally happen under circumstances of that character. I 
 needed her iu New York for the furtherance of her interests, 
 and 1 may have asked the judges questions about it, and they 
 may have said some things to me about it. Now, then, the posi- 
 tion is peculiar and delicate, and I would like very much to be 
 excused from any reference to what those judges said to me. 
 
 Q. I appreciate the peculiarity of the circumstances and the 
 delicacy of them, but I will ask you certain questions. Col. Ful- 
 ler, and let the Committee say whether they shall be answered. 
 What judges spoke to you about it? A. Must I answer? 
 
736 CHARLES W. FULLER. 
 
 Chairman Voorheea — Yes, I think you ought to do 
 that. 
 
 Senator Skirm — It is a perfectly natural question to 
 answer. 
 
 A. Judges Brown, Smith and Whitaker. 
 
 Q. Did you see them together, or separately ? A. 1 saw two 
 of them together, I think. 
 
 Q. Which two 1 A. I think I saw Judges Brown and Smith 
 together, and I saw Judge Whitaker separately. 
 
 Q. When you saw Judges Brown and Smith, who spoke to 
 you about it ? A. 1 think they both said something about it. 
 
 Q. Well, JQst tell what it was and what they suggested ? A. 
 I don't think that is fair. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — They certainly couldn't have 
 said anything improper about it. A. N"o, but they might have 
 said something that was unpleasant. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Unpleasant about it ? A. Yes, 
 to me, for instance, they made this statement, if I must answer ; 
 I assume I must answer; they made this statement, that if 1 
 wanted Mrs. Hamilton in the New York matter — there was a lot 
 of newspaper talk at the time — she would have to get rid of 
 Judge Hoffman and Col. Fuller as her counsel in the pardon 
 matter. I informed them that Col. Fuller had not been her 
 counsel in the pardon matter at all, and had nothing to do with 
 it ; that I simply wanted her in New York, and that I thought it 
 was a case where the full measure of justice had been meted out 
 in the term already served. 
 
 Q. Well, did they suggest any substitute for Hoffman and Ful- 
 ler? A. I have the same request on that. 
 
 Q. I think you had better go on. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Committee will rule against 
 you. 
 
 A. They said if she wanted to get out of prison she must em- 
 ploy General Heppenheimer. 
 
 Q. You mentioned Judge Whitaker as one that spoke to you 
 about it? A. Well, I am not so sure about Judge Whitaker; I 
 know he spoke to me about it; the other conversation I remem- 
 ber ; that I don't remember as distinctly. 
 
 Q. Do you remember whether it was to the same intent ? 
 A. My impression is it was, but I don't remember that as well as 
 I remember the other. 
 
 Q. Did you mention any other than those three, Brown,Whit- 
 aker and Smith ? A. No, sir. 
 
CHAELE8 W. FULLEE. 737 
 
 Q. Did they tell you what was the difficulty or what was the 
 trouble about her getting a pardon? A. Yea; but I beg to be 
 exeusfcd from that. 
 
 Q. Did they express their own views — whether they were 
 iavorable to it? A. They said they thought she ought to be 
 pardoned. 
 
 Q. Did they tell you what the difficulty was about getting a 
 pardon? ^. "Well, I pass. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Well, shall he pass? 
 Senator Ketcham — No. 
 
 Senator Skirm — It seems to me it is a very clear mat- 
 ter that these attorneys wanted this woman out of 
 prison, and he says he was not her counsel in the mat- 
 ter; it is perfectly fair and legitimate for him to answer 
 the questions; I see no reason why he should object to 
 answering. 
 
 Witnesf — I ask to be excused from answering what 
 was said ; there was something said, bat I ask to be ex- 
 cused from answering what was said ; if the Committee 
 think it reflects upon me they must think it ; I ask to be 
 excused. 
 Q. My question is, whether these judges who said they thought 
 she ought to be pardoned stated to you what the difficulty was 
 about obtaining a pardon? A. They did. 
 
 Q. "What did they state? A. That I decline to answer, with 
 all respect to the Committee. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Yoorhees) — On what grounds, Colonel ? A. 
 On the ground that it may tend to criminate or degrade me. 
 
 Q. Well, you hardly mean that? A. No, I don't mean that, 
 but I have got to give some excuse that is legal in this matter, 
 and I am willing to take that upon myself rather than answer the 
 question. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — It seems to me you leave them in 
 a worse position by not answering. A. Leave who? 
 
 Senator Ketcham — The parties to whom you refer. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I don't understand that you 
 
 have any discretion in the matter except as it may be 
 
 accorded to you by the Committee. You are to answer 
 
 or refuse to answer. 
 
 A. I have no discretion. Well, I ask them to withdraw that 
 
 answer, that it will tend to criminate or degrade me, because I 
 
 was willing to take that if you would pass without going into 
 
 that branch of the subject; but I think that this Committee can 
 
 obtain all that they want by inference or by other witnesses, with- 
 
 47 SH 
 
738 CHARLES W. PULLER. 
 
 out making me tell what those gentlemen said. Two of those- 
 gentlemen are alive — one of those that had the conversation, and 
 if he chooses to tell it, I haven't the slightest objection, but I do 
 hope the Committee will pass the question. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Chairman, this is not pleasant busi- 
 ness for anybody. This Committee has decided to put 
 the probe into this subject. This is a scandal now, and 
 it is just a question for the Committee to say how deep 
 they will put it or how far they will go. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Colonel will answer the 
 question. 
 A. I think, with all deference to this Committee, and with all 
 its powers, I ought to be excused from that. I am here at a 
 good deal of trouble and bother, and I thought I ought not to be 
 forced to disclose this. It isn't going to help this Committee any. 
 Chairmaa Voorhees — You haven't given us any 
 reason why you shouldn't disclose it. 
 Witness — I have a reason. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The reason that you gave about 
 incriminating you certainly ought to be taken in a 
 Pickwickian sense. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — He withdrew that. 
 Witness — I gave that as an answer. 
 Chairman Voorhees — But I know that you sometimes 
 speak in a Pickwickian sense. 
 
 Witness — But this is not one of those occasions. 
 Chairman Voorhees — I have conferred with the other 
 members of the Committee, and they are unanimous in 
 their request, and they ordered that the question shall 
 be answered. 
 A. They said the Governor was the stumbling block. 
 Q. You took no part in the farther efforts, then, to secure the 
 pardon? A. 'So,! think not; I didn't think there was any- 
 thing more to be done about it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Any farther than what ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — X don't know. Colonel Fuller has testi- 
 fied that he personally was not the counsel of the pris- 
 oner for this purpose ; he was simply counsel in this 
 New York litigation, but it seems, to the extent of the 
 Judges speaking to him, that he did have a hand in it. 
 Witness — It may be that I spoke to the Judges first 
 about it. 
 Q. No; I understand you to say they spoke to you about it? 
 A. I was very anxious that the woman should be out. 
 
WILLIAM C. HEPPENHEIMER. 739 
 
 Q. Were you here when she was pardoned? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know of any business whatsoever in which Russ & 
 Heppenheimer were retained as her attorneys and counsel except 
 the matter of obtaining this pardon? A. ITo, sir; nothing that 
 I know of ; nothing at all. 
 
 Q. At the time she was pardoned were you still her counsel? 
 A. I was her counsel and attorney in the New York matters. 
 
 Q. And did you continue to be her counsel atter ? A. Until 
 the matter was settled and the money was paid to her. 
 
 Q. How long was that after her release? A. That was last 
 June. 
 
 Q. Her affairs were in your hands then up to last June? A. 
 Absolutely. 
 
 Q. Were either Mr. Heppenheimer or Mr. Russ called in at 
 any stage of that to assist in her affairs ? A. JSTo, sir. 
 
 Did you ever hear of their being retained for her before to- 
 day? A. No, sir; except in this matter. 
 
 Q. Did you ever hear Mr. Russ's name mentioned in connec- 
 tion with it before, or only Mr. Heppenheimer's ? A. I never 
 heard any mention of Mr. Russ in connection with it. 
 
 Q. (By Mr. McDermott) — Were those three Judges in favor of 
 pardoning Mrs. Hamilton? ^. I so understood. 
 
 William C. Heppenheimer, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. I reside in Jersey City. 
 
 Q. What is your age ? A. I am thirty-six. 
 
 Q. You are a lawyer by profession ? A. I am. 
 
 Q. Where did you read law "i A. 1 read law in the Columbia 
 College Law School and Harvard Law School, and in Governor 
 Abbett's office in New York City. 
 
 Q. You were a member of the Assembly for three terms ? 
 A. Member of the Assembly for four years. 
 
 Q. And you were Comptroller during what years 2 A. I was 
 Comptroller in the years 1891, 1892 and 1893, from March 14th, 
 1891, to April Ist, 1894. 
 
 Q. You practice your profession in New Jersey and New York ? 
 A. I do. 
 
 Q. Where is your office in New York ? .4. My office in New 
 York is 229 Broadway. 
 
 Q. And where in New Jersey? A. In the city of Hoboken. 
 
 Q. Did you act as Mrs. Hamilton's counsel in obtaining her 
 pardon? A. I did. 
 
740 WILLIAM C. HEPPENHEIMEH. 
 
 Q. Had you ever before acted as counsel for anybody in obtain- 
 ing a pardon? A. Yes, sir; several cases. 
 
 Q. For whom? A. I can't recall their names now; all small 
 cases; but I remember that I acted as counsel in a number of 
 cases. 
 
 Q. Were you successful ? ^. In some cases I was and in some 
 cases I wasn't. 
 
 Q. Have you since that case acted as counsel for prisoners ? A. 
 I have. 
 
 Q. Before the Court of Pardons? A. I have. 
 
 Q. How often? A. I think twice. 
 
 Q. When was that? A. I can't recall either case just now, but 
 I have acted in two cases since then. 
 
 Q. Was it soon after, or recently ? A. One was about within 
 eight or nine months, and the other was perhaps soon after the 
 case of Mrs. Hamilton. 
 
 Q. Do you recall what cases they were ? A. 1 can't recall 
 them now ; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Had you previous to that time been Mrs. Hamilton's coun- 
 sel in any matter ? A. Will you allow me to state exactly my 
 connection in the matter? 
 
 Q. Yes; but T think first it would be, perhaps, better to an- 
 swer my questions 2 A. 1 would like to state my case. 
 
 <^. I will give you full opportunity to do it, but I first de.sire 
 to ask you certain plain, simple questions; had you previously 
 been Mrs. Hamilton's counsel in any matter? A. Previous to 
 my application for her pardon ? 
 
 Q. Yes ? A. I was her counsel both in the New York matter 
 and in the New Jersey matter, and I was the counsel at the same 
 time, both matters being practically at the same time. 
 
 Q. Previous to this retaining which Mr. Patterson has spoken 
 of, had you ever acted as her counsel? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Had you ever met her? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Of these different persons for whom you acted as counsel 
 in securing pardons, had you ever been counsel for any of them 
 in any other matter? A. Not that I know of. 
 
 Q. Before Mr. Patterson came to New York to retain you, did 
 you know that you were to be retained? ^4. I did. 
 
 Q. From whom ? A. From Col. Fuller. 
 
 Q. How had he communicated with you? A. Col. Fuller 
 called at my office, I think, in New York one day — do you want 
 me to tell the whole story now ? 
 
 Q. You shall have an opportunity to tell all you want to tell. 
 
WILLIAM C. HEPPENHEIMBR. 741 
 
 A. Well, Col. Fuller came to me; I think it was in my New- 
 York office. 
 
 Q. Not just at this time. Just respond to the questions, and 
 then you shall have a chance to say all that you desire to say — 
 and communicated the fact to you that you were desired to be 
 retained as counsel in this pardon matter? A. He told me he 
 wanted me to assist him both in the trial of the ease in the State 
 of New York and also in this pardon matter. 
 
 Q. How long before you received the retainer was that? A. I 
 should judge about three weeks before, to the best of my recol- 
 lection at this time. 
 
 Q. Were you aware that Governor Abbett had recommended 
 you as counsel in the pardon matter 'i A. 1 knew nothing 
 about it. 
 
 Q. When did you first learn ? A. 1 didn't know a word about 
 it until to-day. 
 
 Q. Do you know how Mrs. Hamilton in prison became aware, 
 or at least how she was informed that it was to her interest to 
 retain you in the pardon matter? .4. I do not. 
 
 Q. Did you expect Mr. Patterson when he came? A. I did; 
 Col. Fuller told me that he would come to pay me the retainer 
 that we had agreed upon — that I was to receive. 
 
 Q. When was that he told you? A. The conversation that he 
 had with me previous to the day that Sheriff Patterson came 
 over with the check ; 1 had had quite a number of interviews 
 with him prior to that time. 
 
 Q. Do you know who recommended to Mrs. Hamilton that 
 you be retained? A. I do not; Col. Fuller told me why I was 
 retained in the New York matter. 
 
 Q. Who first suggested to you the idea that you be retained? 
 A. Col. Fuller. 
 
 Q. When was that? A. Shortly before I was retained. 
 
 Q. And where? A. I think in the city of New York. 
 
 Q. How did you come to secure this class of cases from pris- 
 oners other than your clients ? A. Well, they are cases that 
 come in through connections with other clients into the oflice, 
 and I usually attend to them. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether it was through the recommendation 
 of anybody ? A. Not that I know of ; how does any case come 
 to a lawyer ? 
 
 Q. Who conveyed to Mrs. Hamilton the information that a 
 thousand dollars would be required? A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. Did you name that sum? A. I did. 
 
 Q. And to whom did you name it? A. Col. Fuller. 
 
742 WILLIAM C. HEPPENHEIMEK. 
 
 Q. Did you speak to the Governor about the case ? ^4.1 did. 
 Q. When ? A. After the interview with Col. Fuller; after he 
 told me that I would be retained ; I interviewed all the members 
 of the Court of Pardons. 
 
 Q. And that was before the retainer was received ? A. Yes, 
 sir; before and after. 
 
 Q. Did you retain any other counsel to help you in the matter ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you employ any person to help you in it ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. And you obtained assistance from no one, I suppose ? A. 
 Not that I know of. 
 
 Q. Did you incur any expense in obtaining the pardon ? A. 
 Not in obtaining the pardon ; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you obtain any further petitions or papers to be laid 
 before the court ? A. It wasn't necessary ; all the petitions were 
 there. 
 
 Q. They had been there since the spring term ? A. 1 believe 
 so. 
 
 Q. Did you visit your client in person before the pardon? A. 
 I did not. 
 
 Q. Did you communicate with her ? A. 1 did not ; I didn't 
 see her until the day she was pardoned. 
 
 Q. What then did you do in those twelve days between the 
 13th and the 25th to earn the thousand dollars? A. Well, I 
 conferred with Col. Fuller. 
 
 Q. With regard to the New York case and the policy to be 
 pursued in the trial of that case? A. We both agreed that it 
 would be necessary to file notice ot contest in the Surrogate's 
 Court, in the city of New York. 
 
 Q. That didn't touch the question of pardon ? A. It did touch 
 the question of pardon, because we wanted to have something to 
 work on the Court of Pardons with; they refused it before, and 
 we did have some material to work on before the Court of 
 Pardons. 
 
 Q. You thought she would be required as a witness there? 
 A. Yes, sir; justice required that she should be allowed to con- 
 test her husband's will. 
 
 Q. You brought no affidavits or records from New York? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 (J. You say you saw the members of the court ; where ? A. 
 I saw the members of the court here in Trenton. 
 
 Q. Did you draw up any papers with reference to the pardon? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
WILLIAM C. HEPPENHEIMER. 743 
 
 Q. Did you make any argument? A. None, except the argu- 
 ment that I made to the individual members of the court. 
 
 Q. Did you draw up any brief ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Was it on the day the pardon was granted that you saw 
 these members here? A. I saw them here that day, and before. 
 
 Q. Were they in session here before? A. I don't know 
 whether they were in session before that or not, but I remember 
 seeing them here before that, some of them. 
 
 Q. You say that you were consulted with reference to the New 
 York litigation ; did you follow it at all after the date of the par- 
 don ? A. I did. 
 
 Q. When and where ? J.. I had a number of interviews with 
 Col. Fuller with regard to the New York case; I had a number 
 of interviews with Mr. Elihu B. Koot, the counsel of the Hamilton 
 estate, in New York City, and I think with his partner, Mr, 
 Kuntzman, in regard to a settlement of the case. 
 
 Q. Did you appear in court? A. I did not; I dropped out of 
 the case before the case appeared in court, on account of a differ- 
 ence of opinion between Col. Fuller and myself as to the policy 
 that was to be pursued in the trial of the case; I didn't believe 
 he was trying the case as it ought to be tried. 
 
 Q. How soon after the pardon was it that you dropped out of 
 the case? A. I think about a mouth and a half or two months 
 after ; I don't recollect. 
 
 Q. Did you ever have any other interviews with your client 
 after the date of the pardon? A. Yes, sir; I did. 
 
 Q. Where? A. At Col. Fuller's office, in the city of Jersey 
 City. 
 
 Q. What occasion was that? A. One day when he and I had 
 Mrs. Hamilton there ; we talked over the case together. 
 
 Q. Was this thoupand dollars all for your own use ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; every dollar of it. 
 
 Q. Did you retain it all? A. Every dollar. 
 
 Q. You had never met your client previous to the time you 
 took the pardon to her in person, had you ? A. 1 bo told you. 
 
 Q. Was there any opposition to the release of your client? 
 A. There was. 
 
 Q. But she was pardoned the first day the court met after you 
 received the retainer, wasn't she? A. She was. 
 
 Q. And the court was in session about five minutes, was it not? 
 A. I don't remember how long the court was in session; I think 
 the court was in session a good deal longer than that. 
 
 Q. Wasn't the Court of Errors and Appeals in session that 
 ■day? A. Yes, sir. 
 
744 JOHN H. PATTERSON. 
 
 Q. And at recess they took up this matter, did they not? A^ 
 I believe that was the case. 
 
 Q. And this matter alone ? A. That I can't say. 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Did they grant the pardon that 
 day that you were with them ? A. Tes, sir; they did. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Did you carry the pardon to the 
 prison t A. 1 did take it there, with Col. Fuller. 
 
 Q. You can make any statement now you see fit to make. You 
 asked to make some. A. I don't know that I have anything 
 further to say ; I think that I have gone all over it ; except to say 
 that I was not Comptroller of the State at the time that I was 
 retained in this matter ; I held no political office whatever ; I 
 was practicing law. 
 
 Senator Daly — And are willing to receive retainers 
 most any time ? 
 
 Witness — I am not practicing law for my health. I 
 think that is about all I have to say. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I wish to draw the attention of the Com- 
 mittee to the act passed in 1891, which will be found on 
 page 426 of the Laws of that year, entitled " Further 
 Supplement relative to the Court of Pardons," and 
 which, in brief, provided that the Court of Pardons may 
 license any person in any penal institution to be at large, 
 upon such conditions as the Court shall deem proper, 
 which condition shall be endorsed upon or annexed to 
 the license, and upon the breach of which the convict 
 shall be returned to the prison to serve out the remain- 
 der of the term ; the license to be signed by the Gov- 
 ernor, or person administering the government, and by 
 the clerk, and the license may, under certain conditions, 
 be revoked. It is known as the Parole Act. 
 
 John H. Patterson, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Have you the record here of the persons who were convicted 
 of conspiracy, commonly known as the ballot-box stuffers, from 
 Hudson county, who were in your custody for awhile? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Do you remember how many of them there were alto- 
 gether? A. No, sir; I do not. 
 
 Q. When were those prisoners received into the State Prison. 
 You remember these prisoners being received in the summer 
 and fall of 1891, do you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
JOHN H. PATTERSON. 745 
 
 Q. Do you remember their discharge 1 A. 1 remember their 
 being discharged. 
 
 Q. They were all discharged on one day, were they not? A. 
 Well, now, I don't remember whether they were all discharged. 
 
 Q. Don't you recollect it was December 23, just before Christ- 
 mas ? A. Yes, 1 think they were, but I am not positive. 
 
 0. Under this parole law a pretty large number of prisoners 
 have been discharged from your prison, have they not? A. 
 There has been 176,1 thiak; that book will show; during the 
 operation of the parole, since it went into operation. 
 
 Q. And nearly all of those were during the first year or two, 
 were they not ? A. The first year that law went into operation ? 
 
 Q. Yes? A. Well, I think most of them where during the 
 first and second year ; it has averaged about 35 a year since the 
 law went into effect. 
 
 Q. I see that up to December, 1892, the time when these prison - 
 ers were discharged, the number in the parole book had reached 
 as high as 158, and it is now a little over 200 — 209. Have any of 
 these prisoners ever been returned to you for violation of parole? 
 A. There has been seven returned. 
 
 Q. For conviction of a new crime or violation of the parole ? 
 A. There has been two, I think, for a conviction of a new crime 
 and seven for violation of the parole. 
 
 Q. Is it that or just the reverse? A. I think that is the way 
 of it. 
 
 Q. What is the clause of the parole that has been violated ? A. 
 The clause of the parole that has been violated — well, I don't 
 understand your question. 
 
 Q. There are several conditions annexed to the parole. If any 
 of them are violated the prisoner may be returned ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know what the condition is that is violated? A. 
 ISo, I don't know, sir; because we have no record of them after 
 they leave us. 
 
 Q. After they leave the State Prison you lose sight of them ? 
 A. Yes, sir; we have nothing to do with them. 
 
 Q. They are not, under this parole law, compelled to report 
 or account to you any further ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. But to the Grovernor ? A. The Governor. 
 Q. So that the prison authorities lose sight of these parole 
 prisoners entirely when they leave them ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. As an experienced prison-keeper, do you think that is 
 proper management of prisoners, to leave you without any over- 
 
746 JOHN H. PATTERSON. 
 
 sight over these 200 prisoners? A. I think the law that was 
 originally adopted in this State was the proper law. 
 
 Q. I am speaking to you about the wisdom of this prison 
 law? A. I think the prison authorities should be. the proper 
 authorities to keep the record of the paroled men. 
 
 Q. As it now is there is no duty upon anybody to keep any 
 account of them except the Governor ? A. They report to the 
 Governor of the State every three months. 
 
 Q. But after they once pass your doors they are as much out 
 of your jurisdiction as if they never had been there, so far as any 
 attention to them by you is concerned? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I have here the book of records of paroles. The paroles 
 commenced on April 21st, 1891; Patrick Carroll, for murder; 
 James Train jr, for murder; Marion, for breaking and entering; 
 Stinson, for grand larceny; another for breaking and entering; 
 and another for forgery, and so on. Will you kindly suggest to 
 the Committee what you think would be a proper regulation of 
 that subject of paroles? What hold ought you to have on a 
 prisoner after he is once paroled? A. I think that there ought 
 to be a separate Board ; I think the Board to parole ought to be 
 constituted of the authorities of the prison; I think the prison 
 authorities should be the Board of Parole. There is such a law 
 in the State of Ohio, and I think in the State of Massachusetts, 
 and then the prisoners are paroled, and they have a working 
 system in those prisons, and when a man gets into the first court 
 he is paroled. 
 
 Q. Well, there might be some constitutional difficulty about 
 that, as the pardoning power is a court, but you think the matter 
 should be under the sanction also of the prison authorities? A. 
 I think the prison authorities are the best judges of that; I think 
 they would be the best judges of men who were fit to parole. 
 
 y. And what conditions would you put upon a man who is at 
 large? A. I would make him report to the prison every month 
 at least. 
 
 Q. You don't mean in person ? A. No ; by letter ; and, of 
 course, then the record could be kept by the prison authorities, 
 and they would know his whereabouts. 
 
 Q. You would enforce that system of reporting, would you, 
 monthly? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And retake a prisoner unless he did so? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you think a proper supervision could be kept and a 
 proper oversight kept of these prisoners if you had the authority 
 to do it, do you ? .4.1 do. 
 
JOHN H. PATTERSON. 747 
 
 Q. At present you have none, as I understand it? A. No, 
 sir ; I think that first law that was passed was a very good law ; 
 it was copied almost verbatim from the Ohio law. 
 
 Q. That was the one of 1889 which was never operated under? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Some constitutional difBculties, weren't there? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I may say right here, so far as I can 
 see, and from Mr. Patterson's statement, that it is 
 nothing, more nor less than a general jail delivery, the 
 letting out of these prisoners. Nobody has an oversight 
 over them, except they are under duty to write a letter 
 every three months to the Grovernor. 
 
 "Witness — I will say this : that the law has operated 
 
 very favorably to the New Jersey State prison, because 
 
 we were overcrowded there. 
 
 Q. It enables you to turn out the prisoners and let in more? 
 
 A. I don't see how we could have taken more of them, because 
 
 we had last fall nearly eleven hundred prisoners ; if there hadn't 
 
 been anybody paroled we would have had more prisoners than 
 
 we could have stored away. 
 
 Q. In other words, you haven't room for the prisoners that are 
 sent to you ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That wasn't the reason, because of the 
 insufficiency of room, that 150 were thrown out on the world in 
 the first two years ? A. But it does seem to me that when there 
 has only been seven returned — I don't know where they are — 
 they may be in other States, some of them in other prisons, but, 
 as fdr as we are concerned, it has been a very good showing when 
 only seven paroled men have come back. 
 
 Q. (By Ssnator Skirm) — But as to the rest of them, you don't 
 know anything about them? A. We don't know anything about 
 them; no, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Seirm) — They haven't had the benefit of prison 
 supervision since they left you, have they? A. No; I don't 
 know ; we haven't been supervising them. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Some other person may have done 
 it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence the book of paroles. 
 I will read a parole, so that it may be understood : 
 
 " Know All Men by These Presents : That the Court 
 of Pardons of the State of New Jersey hereby grants to 
 W. J. Brotherton, convicted of the crime of larceny 
 from the person, at the Burlington County Court of 
 
748 EDWARD D. FOX. 
 
 Oyer and Terminer of the term of , etc., now 
 
 confined in the State Prison at Trenton, this license to 
 be at large, upon the security, terms, conditions and 
 limitations annexed hereto." 
 
 Now, the conditions annexed to these paroles are as 
 follows : 
 
 " I. The said convict shall continue to be legally in 
 custody after the granting of this license, and shall be 
 liable to be taken and returned to the place of punish- 
 ment to which he or she was originally sentenced, as 
 provided for in an act entitled, "A further supplement to 
 an act entitled, 'An act relative to the Court of Pardons,' 
 approved January 18, 1853," which said further supple- 
 ment was approved April 16, 1891. 
 
 " II. This license to be at large, is issued subject to all 
 the terms and conditions of said Act of April 16, 1891 
 (Chapter 231 of the Laws of 1891). 
 
 " III. That the party paroled shall every three months, 
 during the period of his parole, send to the Governor of 
 the State a letter stating what business or employment 
 he is then engaged in, the name of his employer and his 
 place of residence, which letter shall be treated as pri- 
 vate unless necessary to be used for public purposes. 
 
 " IV. If at any time the party paroled shall be arrested 
 on any criminal process, he shall immediately com- 
 municate the fact to the Governor of the State, and 
 give the details thereof. 
 
 " V. The prisoner paroled shall conduct himself or her- 
 self honestly, avoid evil associations, and obey the law." 
 
 Edward D. Fox, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Do you remember the presentation of application for the 
 pardon of the conspirators known as the ballot-box stuflers, and 
 who were confined in Trenton, and also confined in Snake Hill, 
 in Hudson county t A. 1 do, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you the applications here ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are these the applications? A. Those are the applications 
 for those paroles that were in prison. 
 
 Q. Aren't these all the applications presented, or only the 
 successful ones? A. Only the successful ones. 
 
 Q. Were they all presented the same day ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. There are 32 of these ; there were 32 in the State Prison, 
 were there not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
ALEXANDER H. RICKEY. 749 
 
 Q. And how many in Snake Hill? A. I think 12 or 15. 
 Q: Then there were 44 petitions presented the same day for 
 the pardon of these conspirators ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. "Who presented them ? A. Mr. McDermott. 
 Q. Are these all the papers there are connected with them ? 
 A. Yes, sir; that is all. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I call the attention of the Committee to 
 these papers. In the case of John A. Whalen, who 
 was pardoned, there are several petitions, signed numer- 
 ously. In the case of Patrick McGrath there are some 
 petitions, and so in the case of John P. Murray; but 
 with those exceptions, and possibly one or two more 
 there are no petitions lor pardon here. There is in each 
 case a memorandum, in some cases in the form of a 
 letter, but more frequently in a memorandum, apparently 
 written by the convict, like this, for example. I will 
 take the one of Oscar L. Freiberg: 
 
 " Gentlemen — I was born in St. Louis, Mo., in 1854. 
 I went to the public schools, and finished my education 
 at Franklin College, located at Franklin, Mo., in 1874. 
 I remain, fraternally yours, Oscar L. Freiberg." 
 
 That is the entire record of that application for 
 pardon. 
 
 ISTow, I offer in evidence also the minutes of the Court 
 of Pardons which were produced here, December 20th, 
 1892, by which it will appear that the Court met on that 
 day and adjourned to December 23d, three days after. 
 Q. Did anybody else appear for any of these forty-four pris- 
 oners ? A. No, sir ; I don't recollect anyone else. 
 
 Alexander H. Rickey, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Turn to your minutes of December 20th, 1892 ; is there 
 any record on that day of the application jf these conspirators 
 for parole or pardon ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Tarn to December 23d ; have you that record? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Well, now, leaving that for a moment, show us your record 
 of paroles of these men ; begin with page 107, Thomas Fallon ; 
 is that where the record begins? A. That is where the record 
 begins ? 
 
 Q. Now, I find that these paroles are dated, what day? A. 
 December 23d, 1892. 
 
 Q. They all bear that date, do they not ? A. Bear that date. 
 
750 ALEXANDER H. RICKEY. 
 
 Q. The oue immediately before these is dated what '! A. De- 
 cember 20th, 1892. 
 
 Q. Turn on, past all the ballot-stufiers, to the next one after 
 them all; what is the date of that? A. December 20th. 
 
 Q. Now, I observe here that the entire 44 — that a parole is 
 issued in this book to those in Snake Hill as well as those in the 
 prison here, and across the last twelve there is written " not 
 issued," although the signature of the Secretary of State and 
 Governor appear at the bottom. How did that happen? A. I 
 think, on the meeting of the 23d of December, or the 20th of 
 December ; I think, the 23d, Mr. McDermott took a recess — the 
 court did, to hear Mr. McDermott. 
 
 Q. What do you mean by taking a recess; did they leave the 
 room? A. No; I left the room. 
 
 Q. Taking a recess means you left the room 7 A. 1 left the 
 room; the court made a motion to take a recess to hear Mr. Mc- 
 Dermott. 
 
 Q. Did he go in when you went out? A. He was in there 
 when I was in there; when he commenced to talk, I left, and 
 went to the office. 
 
 Q. Did you go back after he was through? A. After he was 
 through they sent for me. 
 
 Q. And then you went in, did you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did the court then reconvene? A. The court reconvened. 
 
 Q. And then they paroled these men ? A. Then they paroled 
 these men. 
 
 Q. And pardoned one ? A. And pardoned one. 
 
 Q. Refer to the record in your minutes and read it? A. 
 " Court of Pardons, November term, Friday, December 23d, 
 1892. The Court of Pardons met in the Executive Chamber, 
 pursuant to adjournment. Present: Governor Abbett, Chancellor 
 McGill, Judge Bogert, Judge Brown, Judge Clement, Judge 
 McGregor, Judge Smith, Judge Whitaker. The following cases 
 were duly considered and disposed of as stated : John E. Whalen, 
 pardoned; James Costigan, paroled. The following cases were 
 paroled by the following vote in each case; AfBrraative — Gov- 
 ernor Abbett, Judge Bogert, Judge Brown, Judge McGregor, 
 Judge Smith, Judge "Whitaker. Chancellor McGill and Judge 
 Clement voted no." Then follows a list : " Michael Hughes, 15 
 months; James Fallon, 18 months; Peter Cassidy, 18 months," 
 and so on through the 32. " The following cases were dismissed, 
 the prisoners being coufined in the Hudson County Penitentiary : 
 John T. Walch, Michael Fallon," and tho rest. 
 
ALEXANDER H. RICKEY. 751 
 
 Q. Now, how did it happen that they dismissed the cases o± all 
 the twelve in the Hudson County Penitentiary, notwithstanding 
 the parolee were actually made out and the Governor's name and 
 secretary's name recorded here at the foot? A. To the best of 
 my recollection, I think I was sent for by the Governor, and he 
 said he would like to have them all made out and have them 
 ready, in anticipation of a meeting of the Court of Pardons. 
 
 Q. What day was that? A. I think that was either the 20th 
 or the 23d ; I couldn't tell you which day ; I don't recollect which. 
 
 Q. And you gave orders to have it done ? A.l gave orders to 
 have it done, to the chief clerk in the office, Mr. George P. 
 LaBarre. 
 
 Q. So that these paroles were all made out before the Court 
 of Pardons convened on the 23d of December ? A. That is my 
 impression. 
 
 Q. For the 44 men ? A. For the 44 men. 
 
 Q. Well, when the court met they dismissed the application as 
 to twelve of them, as you have shown by the book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then this record of twelve paroles was canceled? A. 
 Yes, sir ; marked there, " Not issued." 
 
 Q. And the other 32 were issued ? A. Were issued; yes, sir; 
 the paroles were made out, but not signed by the Governor; 
 they were only prepared. 
 
 Q. Do you know of any other cases in the years that you have 
 been clerk where the Court of Pardons has taken a recess and 
 sent you out and admitted counsel there in that way to be heard? 
 A. They didn't send me out ; I went out. 
 
 Q. You retired? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did that ever happen before or since 1 A. 1 don't think I 
 ever went out. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— Why did you then? A. That I can't 
 say, unless I was asked to by Governor Abbett to leave the room. 
 
 Q. Did they ever admit counsel under circumstances like that 
 before or since? A. I think they heard counsel once in a mur- 
 der ^ase, and I think once in Jersey City in a murder case. 
 
 Q. But with the exception of those two murder cases, and this 
 case, did you ever know that to be allowed ? A. I can't tell; I 
 think there were one or two cases in the Executive chamber. 
 
 Q. Who was allowed in in that manner ? A.l can't say that. 
 
 Q. Anybody other than Mr. McDermott ? I have no recollec- 
 tion ; no. 
 
752 GEORGE B, LA BAERE. 
 
 George B. La Baere, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Coebin. 
 
 Q. Were you the chief clerk in the office of the Secretary of 
 State in December, 1892? A. I was. 
 
 Q. Do you remember receiving instructions with reference to 
 these fourty-four paroles? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who gave them to you ? A. Mr. Rickey, the Assistant 
 Secretary of State. 
 
 Q. And what were your instructions? A. My instructions 
 were to proceed and have the certificates of parole made out in 
 anticipation of the action of the Court of Pardons on the 23d of 
 December. 
 
 Q. W hat day was it that you were given those instructions ? 
 A. If I remember right it was on the 20th of December. 
 
 Q. These are what you call the certificates of parole, are they 
 not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In this book which I have shown you is a verbatim copy of 
 the same ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you made out the certificates of parole and recorded 
 them in this book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When did you learn that some of these were not to be 
 issued? A. Not until after the meeting of the Court of Pardons 
 on the 23d. 
 
 Q. And then you canceled twelve of them? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that you actually made out forty-four certificates and 
 recorded them in your book, with the signatures of the Governor 
 and the Secretary of State at the bottom, before the Court of 
 Pardons acted upon the subject, did you ? A. With copies of the 
 signatures of the Secretary of State. 
 
 Q. The originals had not been signed? A. The originals had 
 not been signed until after the meeting of the Court of Pardons, 
 and certificates were not given out until they had been compared 
 with the minutes. 
 
 Q. I see in this book, after these canceled paroles, there are 
 other paroles recorded, which are dated December 20th ; those, 
 then, which had actually been granted on December 20th were 
 laid over to await entering these, were they not? A. It may 
 have been. 
 
 Q. Must it not have been so? A. ISTot necessarily; no, sir. 
 
 Q. How is it that paroles here appear to be recorded after- 
 wards which were dated before ? A. It happened in there, I 
 think, several times ; we would not issue the certificate of parole 
 until we had the certificate of the keeper of the State Prison and 
 a letter of employment ; and in some cases the Court of Pardons 
 
GEORGE B. LA BAEEE. 753 
 
 paroled prisoners without these certificates being signed, and 
 
 they would come in probably a week afterwards. 
 
 Q. Well, I see there are four or five of the 20th of December ? 
 
 A. It is quite possible ; that was the reason. 
 
 By Mr. Corbin — Before closing this, I desire to make 
 a comment myself on this evidence. It does seem to me 
 that that proceeding, with all due respect, was a most 
 extraordinary one. The most striking and startling 
 political crime in the history of this State was that 
 ballot-box conspiracy, and after investigation last- 
 ing four months, by this Senate, at great cost and 
 infinite pains and labor ; after two years of litiga- 
 tion in the courts of Hudson county and in the higher 
 courts of the State, fifty-eight men out of sixty-eight 
 indicted ones were, as I have said, with enormous difli- 
 culty, convicted of this crime and sentenced to prison 
 for terms of from nine to eighteen months. Practically 
 every man who was put on trial was convicted ; and, 
 after this long litigation, this eflbrt by the Legislature, 
 and all the other pains that were taken, a stamp was 
 put upon that ciime by sending these men to prison to 
 meet their just deserts ; and before they had been in 
 prison, some of them two nionths and others four or 
 five months, the Court of Pardons, without any petition 
 of citizens, or anything before them from the prosecutor, 
 or anything from counsel of either side, without any- 
 body's asking for their pardon, with the exception of 
 two or three cases, where there were special reasons, 
 made a general jail delivery of those conspirators, and 
 evidently intended to make a clean sweep and deliver 
 those also who were in the Hudson County Penitentiary ; 
 but at the last moment, why they did not go the whole 
 figure I do not know, but they left those twelve who 
 had shorter terms in the penitentiary, and delivered in 
 in one day thirty-two prisoners from the State 
 Prison. I say that thing is entirely unparalleled 
 in the history of the State, and is such a dis- 
 couragement to the efforts towards good govern- 
 ment and honest elections as has never been seen 
 before. It is a thing which demands explanation by 
 every man who had to do with it. There is nothing to 
 be compared to it in the history of the State or its juris- 
 prudence ; they are without reference to relative merits, 
 and there was a difference between them; that they 
 
 48 SH 
 
754 SECRETARY OP STATE. 
 
 should by one sweep be thrust out of prison almost as 
 soon as they were thrust in, there were cogent reasons 
 for it we may well believe. I say that it is such a mat- 
 ter as should set the Senate and the Legislature to think- 
 ing how they are in future, by statutory amendment, to 
 constitute their Court of Pardons. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It is but fair to some of the 
 members of that Court, Chancellor McGill and Judge 
 Clement, to say that they are recorded as voting 
 against it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — They voted no on that. IsTobody voted 
 against the pardon of Whalen. There were special 
 reasons why Whalen should be pardoned ; but with 
 thirty of those paroles Chancellor McGill and Judge 
 Clement did vote no, and it is recorded there to their 
 honor. 
 
 Adjourned to Thursday, May 2, 1895. 
 
 Trenton, May 2d, 1895, 10 A. M. 
 
 Proceedings resumed. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the Committee. 
 I desire to present some evidence touching the ofBce of the 
 Secretary of State, and certain revenues of the State which are 
 derived from corporations and other sources through that office, 
 with a possible view to the recommendation by the Committee of 
 legislation for future regulation of the matter. 
 
 It is obvious that the matter of these revenues, which have 
 grown to a very large sum, has not been sufficiently regulated 
 by existing laws. To understand the matter fully, it will be 
 necessary for me to read you several statutes that have been 
 passed at diflerent times, and which apparenly refer to different 
 subjects ; but if the Committee will follow them carefully as L 
 read them and explain their bearing, I think the testimony that 
 follows will be understood, and the whole subject may be very 
 briefly compassed and presented. 
 
 The Secretary of State, previous to 1879, received as his com- 
 pensation fees for various duties which he performed as Secretary 
 of State, for the filing of papers, issuing of commissions and 
 other duties, and also fees as Clerk of the Prerogative Court and 
 Register of the Prerogative office, Clerk of the Court of Errors 
 and Appeals, Clerk of the Court ot Pardons, Insurance Com- 
 missioner, and possibly other duties were by law laid upon him^ 
 
SECKETAEY OF STATE. 755 
 
 and his compensation was entirely made up of fees. la the year 
 1879 a bill was passed to place the office thereafter upon the basis 
 of a salary. This bill really did not take efiect, and was not put 
 into effect with respect to the iacumbent of the office until 1881, 
 as he was in the midst of a term which did not close until April, 
 1881, and it appears to have been assumed that under the Con- 
 stitution the fees or emoluments could not be changed during the 
 term, and therefore the Secretary of State continued under the 
 old arrangement until April, 1881, when the salary arrangement 
 went into force. I don't know under what provision of the Con- 
 stitution that construction was had, unless it be the amendment 
 passed in 1875, which says that no special, private or local laws 
 shall be passed increasing, decreasing or changing the emolu- 
 ments of an office during ihe term, and I suppose that some one 
 construed the law to mean that the act referring to the Secretary 
 of State, and certain other officers, was a special law. I sup- 
 pose it was under that Constitutional amendment. 
 
 It seems to me to be a general law; but at all events that was 
 the construction given to it. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Do you know whether the law officer 
 of the State has given any construction of that? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Did the Attorney-General ever act upon that ? 
 
 Mr. Kelsey — I think not. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I know of no opinion on file ; but at all events 
 the construction was so, and the new arrangement went into 
 efiect in April, 1891. 
 
 Mr. Kelsey — I think the act you referred to expressly provided 
 that it should not apply to any officer then serving an unexpired 
 term — the last clause of the act. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is correct. The last clause of the act of 
 1879 refers to the subject. I will take it up as I read on. 
 
 Taking up this legislation, now in its order, the first act is the act 
 of March 10th, 1879, P. L. page 103 {Sup. Rev., 892). The first sec- 
 tion provides that the Secretary of State shall receive an annual 
 salary of $6,000, together with an allowance of $4,000 per £lnnum 
 for clerical assistance, to be paid by the Treasurer, which said salary 
 shall be full compensation for all services rendered by the said 
 Secretary of State as such, and as Clerk of the Court of Errors, 
 Clerk of the Prerogative Court, Eegister in the Prerogative 
 office. Clerk of the Court of Pardons and Commissioner of Insur- 
 ance, or in any other official capacity whatever, and for all clerk 
 hire, save and except of the Assistant Secretary of State, who 
 shall continue to receive the salary now provided by law for his 
 services (he received ia the salary roll of the State, |3,000 per 
 
756 SECEETAEY OF STATE. 
 
 annum), and all fees now payable by law to him as Secretary of 
 State, Clerk of the Court of Errors, Clerk of the Prerogative 
 Court, Register in the Prerogative ofiice, Clerk of the Court of 
 Pardons or Commissioner of Insurance, or in any other official 
 capacity whatever, shall be collected by him, and a statement by 
 him in detail, verified by oath, shall be submitted quarterly to 
 the Comptroller, and when audited by him, filed with the State 
 Treasurer ; and the said Secretary of State shall within ten days 
 thereafter pay over the amount of such fees to the State Treasurer 
 under the penalty of $500 for each day's neglect to file such cer- 
 tificate and to pay over such moneys to be recovered in the name 
 of the Treasurer of the State for the use of the State. 
 
 The second section of the act provided that that act should be 
 a public act, and take effect immediately, excepting that so far 
 as the same increases or reduces the percentage or allowance of 
 any public officer then in office during the term for which such 
 officer was elected or appointed, it should take effect only upon 
 and after the end of the term. That, of course, with regard to 
 the Secretary of State, postponed that act until April 6, 1881. 
 
 Now, you observe, that two years were yet to elapse after the 
 passage of this act of 1879 before it aflected the Secretary of 
 State's office. So the Legislature, which at this time was dealing 
 with the whole subject of the fees of Clerk's of the difierent 
 courts here in Trenton, passed another act four days later, March 
 14, 1879, Pamphlet Laws, page 338 {Sup. Rev., page S99). This 
 act refers to the Clerk of the Supreme Court, Clerk in Chancery, 
 and the Secretary of State. Referring to the sections as given 
 in the supplement to the Revision, section 18 provides as follows 
 — and this act, you will observe, refers to the fees which clerk's 
 receive for their own use. The one which I read a few minutes 
 ago refers entirely by its terms to fees to be received for the use of 
 the State, and provides that they shall be returned in detail and 
 paid in within ten days after the end of the quarter, under penal- 
 ties prescribed there. That act which I read refers exclusively 
 to fees collected for the use of the State, and took effect, as stated, 
 not until 1881. This act which accompanied the other, and was 
 passed March 14, 1879, refers to fees received by the Clerk's for 
 their own use. This distinction is quite important. It provides 
 first for the Clerk in Chancery and the Clerk of the Supreme 
 Court, whose fees have been somewhat reduced, but who are 
 still left their compensation by fees ; they were not put upon 
 salaries. 
 
 Next, it takes up the office of the Secretary of State, and what 
 I am about to read to you refers to the tees which he still for 
 
SECRETAEY OF STATE. 757 
 
 two years, from 1879 to 1881, would collect for hi8 own use. 
 Bearing that distinction in mind, you will understand the act. 
 
 " The Secretary of State shall keep a true record of all the fees 
 and compensation received or taken by him for his own use as 
 Secretary of State, Clerk of the Court of Errors and Appeals, 
 Clerk of the Prerogative Court and Kegister in the Prerogative 
 OfiQce, Clerk of the Court of Pardons and Commissioner of 
 Insurance, or in any other official capacity, and from all sources, 
 under the provisions of any law of this State, and shall make his 
 statement, account and report under oath to the Comptroller of 
 this State on the first day of July next, and quarterly thereafter, 
 of all such fees and compensation, showing separately and dis- 
 tinctly the gross amount of each class and particular kind of 
 fees and compensation, under the proper headings, received by 
 him in the capacities above mentioned, or in any other official 
 capacity during the next preceding quarter." Similar provisions 
 .were made for the Clerks of the Supreme Court and Chancery. 
 
 Observe that this act required the Secretary of State to return 
 quarterly the gross amount of each class of fees which he should 
 during those two years receive to his own use. 
 
 The other act, which I read to you, of March 10th, 1879, which 
 referred solely to fees for the use of the State, required that they 
 should be returned in. detail. The next section of the act of 
 March 14th, 1879, makes the same provision for the clerks and 
 sherifis. 
 
 The 20th Section provides that all such reports and state- 
 ments filed shall be public records in the Comptroller's office, 
 and shall be included by him in his annual report ; and then fol- 
 lows Section '21 with regard to the penalty for disobedience, which 
 says, that whenever any person is required to make an account 
 of fees received by him to his oww use, in detail or in gross, 
 shall fail therein he shall suffer a penalty of one hundred dollars. 
 
 As I have said, this whole subject was dealt with in this year 
 1879, and so far as the Secretary of State's office was concerned, 
 a new and very wide departure was made from the former prac- 
 tices. All clerks were compelled to make returns of these fees 
 which they had, so that the State might know what they were 
 getting. That is the evident purpose of that ; so that it might 
 be known whether they were paid under or over, and probably 
 whether the Legislature should continue the fee system, or 
 whether the clerks should be put upon salaries. That was a 
 mooted question at that time. 
 
 With regard to the Secretary of State, it was then decided to 
 make the departure, and that office was then put upon a salary 
 
758 SECRETARY OF STATE. 
 
 basis. In providing for the returns by these other officers who 
 still retained their fees, it was remembered that the Secretary of 
 State had yet two years to serve wherein he would retain his own 
 fees, and so it was provided' in the same act that he should make 
 his quarterly report of his own fees, so that the State could see 
 what he was getting during those two years in the way of fees. 
 
 In 1881, so far as his office was concerned, the whole thing 
 was changed, and all the fees that came into his office became 
 revenues of the State, and were to be returned in detail, not in 
 gross, and you observe the reason ; the only object of his return- 
 ing fees which he kept himself was to see how well the office was 
 paid, and that is the rule that now applies to the Clerk in 
 Chancery and the Supreme Court. They state in gross every 
 quarter how much they have received. But after 1881 the Sec- 
 retary of State's revenues were the revenues of New Jersey, and 
 it was therefore provided that they should be paid over as stated 
 under the heavy penalty provided, and it was required that they 
 should be stated in detail, that the State might see the exact 
 source and amount of all its revenues. The 22d section, which 
 is practically the close of the act, provides that a false oath to a 
 return shall constitute perjury, and so on. 
 
 The next year, in 1880, a supplement was passed, which will be 
 found in the Supplement to the Revision, page 898, section 22, 
 &c., which also referred to the Clerk in Chancery, the Clerk of 
 the Supreme Court and to the Secretary of State, and this act 
 was really a further direction to them with regard to fees, but it 
 now touches the matter of the judges' fees. You observe that 
 the clerk is the collecting officer of the court, and the judges 
 had now by the Legislature been put upon salaries. The Chan- 
 cellor, who formerly got large fees, had now been put upon a sal- 
 ary. The Judges of the Supreme Court, who received a part of 
 their compensation by fees, were now put upon a salary, and it 
 was provided by law that all these fees which were for the ser- 
 vices of the judges should now go into the State Treasury, and 
 these, you observe, became part of the State revenues, too. 
 
 The clerks of the courts are of necessity the collecting officers 
 for the State, and this supplement of 1880 touches that subject 
 and that only. This supplement provides that it shall be the 
 duty of the Clerk of the Supreme Court, county clerks, the 
 Clerk in Chancery and the Secretary of State, after the 
 close of each term of the courts of which they are respec- 
 tively clerks, to make a full and itemized statement and 
 to return to the Comptroller of the Treasury the sums which 
 they have respectively charged and included in taxed bills of 
 
SECRETAEY OP STATE. 759 
 
 costs — this is the same act I read when you had the county clerks 
 here — which they have included in taxed bills of costs, or which 
 may have accrued in any case for fees for the services of the 
 Chancellor, the Chief Justice and the Associate Justices of the 
 ■Supreme Court, under any law now or hereafter in force, which 
 statement shall be rendered under oath upon blanks to be fur- 
 nished — and you will remember I produced one of the blanks 
 here from the office of the Comptroller, which he furnishes to all 
 these people. This applied still to the Secretary of State touching 
 ■the courts of which he is clerk. That you will see, like tbe act 
 of March 10, 1879, which touched the revenues of the State, re- 
 quires a full and itemized and detailed account of the fees. 
 
 Ifow, in the year 1881, the time approached when this new 
 arrangement with the -Secretery of State's office was about to take 
 eflect, April 6, I think. A few days before that the Legislature 
 had passed another supplement to this act, manifestly having in 
 mind the changed system which was about to go into force. It 
 will be found in the supplement to the Revision, page 893, and 
 was passed February 16, 1881. It was evidently to make per- 
 iectly clear that it was the purpose of the Legislature to put that 
 office upon a salary basis, and to exclude every other form of 
 compensation. 
 
 " The Secretary of State of this State shall not be 
 entitled to or take, receive or retain, except for the 
 use of the State, any compensation, pay, fee or emolu- 
 ment whatsoever other than the annual salary of six 
 thousand dollars fixed and provided for in section 3 
 of the act to which this is a supplement, for any act 
 or services performed or thing done or furnished by 
 him in any official capacity or under any law of this 
 State, including the preparation and furnishing copies 
 of laws for publication in the several newspapers, and 
 the preparation and furnishing of a copy of the laws 
 to the person authorized to print the pamphlet laws 
 of the State; said salary of six thousand dollars 
 shall be paid monthly, and for the allowance of four 
 thousand dollars provided for in section 3 of the act 
 to which this is a supplement, for clerk hire, the 
 Secretary of State shall at all times employ and keep 
 in his office a sufficient number of competent clerical 
 assistants for the efficient and prompt performance of 
 all the business and duties belonging and pertaining 
 to his office or required of him in any official capacity, 
 who shall be paid monthly." 
 
760 SECKETAEY OF STATE. 
 
 That went into force immediately prior to the beginning of 
 this new term of the Secretary of State io 1881, and placed the 
 oflSce strictly upon the salary and allowance basis — six thousand 
 dollars for salary, four thousand dollars allowance for clerk hire. 
 And I may say just here in connection with that act that it 
 seems unique in the financial system of the State. The Secretary 
 of State draws four thousand dollars per year ; the clerks in the 
 office of the Secretary of State are not upon the State's pay rolls, 
 like the other clerks in the State House, but each month the 
 Secretary of State under this act draws $333.33 and himself pays 
 the clerical assistants who may be necessary to do the work. 
 Perhaps that is the proper construction of that act ; I am not pre- 
 pared to deny that the act will bear it. Upon the first reading 
 of it I certainly should not have construed it so, particularly it 
 being an act afiecting the revenues of the State ; but I should 
 have read it to mean that the clerical assistants in the office 
 should be paid, and the limit is an appropriation of |4,000 a year, 
 for their payment. But it has been construed from the first to 
 mean that the Secretary of State is entitled to the four thousand 
 dollars, and he attends to the matter of providing the clerical as- 
 sistants. It raises a point of law which is a nice one perhaps, 
 but, as I say, my own judgment would have been, reading it first 
 without having the other side presented to me at all, that the act 
 fixes a limit beyond which the expenditures for clerical services 
 shall not go ; it would not strike me as providing a further com- 
 pensation to the Secretary, but the construction has been as I 
 have said. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — How are the clerks paid in the other 
 departments ? For example, there is a provision with regard to 
 the Comptroller's department — for their clerical services, three 
 thousand dollars. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — They are paid by the warrant of the Comp- 
 troller and receive the State's check. I think that is so in all 
 the offices, with the exception of the Secretary of State. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The wording of this law is different from the 
 other. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Here it is. Revision, page 1036, being the 
 act of 1876 : 
 
 " That the public officers hereinafter mentioned are 
 hereby authorized, by and with the approval of the 
 Governor of this State, to employ assistants as may be 
 necessary in their several departments ; provided, that 
 the annual cost thereof shall not exceed the amounts 
 hereinafter allotted to the several departments for that 
 
SECRETARY OP STATE. 761 
 
 purpose ; that is to say, to the Executive department, 
 two thousand dollars; to the Comptroller's department, 
 for the first assistant, two thousand five hundred dollars ; 
 and for other clerical service, three thousand five hun- 
 dred dollars." 
 Mr. Corbin — This is somewhat diflerent, and reads this way : 
 " The Secretary of State shall receive a salary of six 
 thousand dollars per annum, together with au allowance 
 of four thousand dollars per annum for clerical assist- 
 ants, to be paid by the Treasurer." 
 The phraseology is somewhat different, you see ; I merely 
 draw attention to it in passing. 
 
 So that this act, put in operation under the construction I 
 have stated, left that office in this situation in 1881 : The Secre- 
 tary of State received from the Treasurer a salary of six thou- 
 sand dollars ; the Assistant Secretary of State had, by previous 
 legislation, received a salary of three thousand dollars, and the 
 Secretary of State drew the sum of four thousand dollars with 
 which to pay for the clerk hire, and that continued to be the 
 practice. 
 
 I call attention to an act passed April 18th, 1891, ten years 
 later. Pamphlet Laws, page 511. This is a supplement to the 
 "Act respecting the Prerogative Court and the power and 
 authority of the Ordinary" — the old act of 1846. It provides 
 that it shall be the duty of the Register of the Prerogative Court 
 to record all wills, proofs, probates, letters testamentary, etc., etc., 
 and other papers of a similar nature which are now required by 
 law to be recorded in the Surrogate's office of the respective 
 counties, and for all official services as Register of the Preroga- 
 tive Court, he shall be entitled to charge and receive the same 
 fees as are now allowed by law to the Surrogates of the several 
 counties for like services; that all expenses incurred in carrying 
 out the provisions of this act shall be paid by the Register out 
 of the fees so collected. 
 
 Daring those ten years, from 1881 to 1891, which covers two 
 terms of this office, the term of the Secretary of State being five 
 years, these fees as Register of the Prerogative Court had been 
 paid into the Treasury. When the term, which was then about 
 to expire, did expire, under this act of 1891, those fees were no 
 longer paid into the Treasury, but under the construction given 
 to the act, have since been retained by the Register of the Pre- 
 rogative office. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Was that the intent of the law ? 
 
762 SECRETARY OF STATE. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The act will bear that construction, but it doesn't 
 seem to me the obvious construction, and as long as you have 
 asked me the question, I will say this, that in laws appropriating 
 the revenues of the State the intent must be clear or the money 
 does not go. That is a rule of construction which I think is 
 pretty well understood by lawyers, particularly those who have 
 at all studied State affairs. You cannot appropriate the money 
 out of the Treasury by any doubtful language ; it must be clear ; 
 every doubt is solved in favor of the State. But this act says in 
 words that " for all official services as Eegister he shall be entitled 
 to charge and receive fees," and so on ; whether that simply fixed 
 the meapure of these new duties, leaving the Secretary to receive 
 and turn the fees over to the State as theretofore, is one question, 
 or whether it meant he was to receive them for himself, is the 
 other side. 
 
 Senator Skirm — During these ten years did the fees go into 
 the State Treasury? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes; they were returned. 
 
 This act is claimed to be a change of the law by which the 
 compensation of the Register of the Prerogative office were in- 
 creased, and that these fees are added to his salary. The lan- 
 guage is that he may receive them, but it must be read in the 
 light of previous legislation. I have not briefed the matter nor 
 given it sufficient consideration to say confidently that the con- 
 struction given is not a proper one. I am simply explaining the 
 law as it is on this subject. 
 
 But after that term of office closed, in April, 1891, these fees 
 were no longer returned to the State, and from that time to the 
 present year, 1895, there is no return of any of those fees. 
 
 I think I had better continue and cite all the acts which T am 
 going to cite, though possibly a little out of the proper order. 
 
 On the third and fourth days of April, 1889, there were passed 
 two acts which afiect the compensation of this office and to that 
 extent the revenues from it. 
 
 The act of April 4th, 1889, is an amendment to the Insurance 
 act. You will remember that at this time the Secretary of State* 
 was the Commissioner of Insurance. Since then that part of 
 his duties have been transferred to another officer, but at that 
 time he was Commissioner of Insurance, and a supplement was 
 passed which is an amendment to sections 6 and 7 of the In- 
 surance act. The sixth section as amended is simply restrictive 
 upon insurance companies from doing certain things ; it doesn't 
 touch this subject under inquiry. 
 
SECRETARY OF STATE. 763 
 
 The seventh section as amended provides that the penalty lor 
 every violation of this act, and the act to which this is a supple- 
 ment, shall be five hundred doUaars, and all costs of suit ; to be 
 sued for and collected in the name of the State by the Secretary 
 of State, and the offenders may be imprisoned, or fines may be 
 imposed ; one-half of the penalty is to go to the fire insurance 
 charitable fund and one-half to the Secretary of State for the 
 use of the State, and the necessary expenses of enforcing the 
 provisions of this act and the act to which it is a supplement and 
 the supplements thereto, when not otherwise provided for, shall 
 be paid by the Secretary of State out of the funds so collected 
 and the fees and taxes paid by the insurance companies of other 
 States or nations authorized to transact business in this State. 
 
 That act of April 4th, 1889, you will observe, authorizes the 
 Secretary of State to make expenditures for the enforcement of 
 that supplement and the insurance act. 
 
 The other act to which I referred was approved by the Grover- 
 nor April 3d, 1889, the day before the insurance act. They are 
 substantially coeval. It is a supplement to the general act con- 
 cerning corporations, and will be found in the Laws of 1889, 
 page 160. 
 
 The second section provides that it shall be the duty of the 
 Secretary of State to compile and publish in pamphlet form dur- 
 ing the present year, from the records of his department, a com- 
 plete list of corporations organized under the corporation act, or 
 any general public laws of the State, and annually thereafter, on 
 or before the first day of March, in like manner to compile and 
 publish a complete list of such corporations organized during the 
 preceding year, together with the names of the officers and the 
 location of the particular office ; and then follows a clause to 
 which I particularly desire to call your attention : 
 
 " The expense incurred in carrying out the provisions 
 of this act shall be paid by the Secretary of State from 
 the moneys collected under this act or the act to which 
 this is a supplement." 
 
 That act, like the other, you will observe, authorizes the Sec- 
 retary of State to make expenditures out of the revenues of the 
 State which he receives. 
 
 There is but one more statute, and then I will proceed with 
 something else, and that is the act of 1894, being also a supple- 
 ment to the Corporation act, passed May 15th, 1894, found in the 
 Pamphlet Laws, page 346. 
 
 It provides that no foreign corporation shall transact business 
 in Few Jersey until it shall have filed in the Department of State 
 
764 SECRETARY OF STATE, 
 
 a copy of its charter, together with a statement, setting forth the 
 total amount of its capital stock, and certain other details. It 
 must also designate an agent in ISTew Jersey upon whom process 
 may be served ; it shall pay certain fees to the Secretary of State 
 for the use of the State on filing these papers, and when these 
 conditions are complied with the Secretary of State is to issue to 
 such foreign corporation a certificate that it has complied with 
 the requirements of law and is authorized to transact business in 
 ITew Jersey, for which the Secretary of State shall receive, for 
 the use of the State, five dollars. And the end of the second 
 section is this : 
 
 " Provided that all expenses incurred in carrying out 
 the provisions of this act shall be paid for out of the 
 fees so received." 
 
 The third section is the retaliatory clause, that where other 
 States lay certain burdens upon our corporations who do business 
 there, like fees and penalties shall be imposed upon their corpora- 
 tions that come here. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Do those fees go into the State from this 
 Foreign Corporation act ? 
 
 Mr. Corbiu — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Less any printing expenses, or anything 
 like that ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Less such expenses for carrying out the act. All 
 fees paid into the ofiice of the Secretary of State, with the excep- 
 tion, perhaps, of the Prerogative fees, which I have explained, 
 belong to the State. 
 
 This retaliatory clause in the act of 1894, which doubtless all 
 the Senators will remember, requires the imposition of certain 
 burdens upon foreign corporations who come here, provided 
 their States impose like ones on us. The duty of imposing that 
 burden does not seem to be cast on anybody in particular, but 
 very possibly the act means that the Secretary of State is to do 
 it, in view of the fact that he has to make the expenditures neces- 
 sary to carry out the act. In other words, it requires watchful- 
 ness of the laws of other States with regard to penalties, as well 
 as of our own State, and I presume if the Legislature thought of 
 it at all, that duty was cast upon the Secretary of State. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That was the intention of the act. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — And I believe that duty has been undertaken by 
 that oflicer. 
 
 I now produce the returns made by the Secretary of State, and 
 I trust I have made the history of this thing plain to the Com- 
 
SECRETARY OF STATE. 765 
 
 mittee. It is a little intricate, but it has to be followed to clearly 
 understand the evidence. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think you have, at least as far as I am 
 concerned. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — You remember, from 1879 to 1881 the fees of the 
 Secretary of State's office, although the act making the change 
 had been passed, still belonged to him. 
 
 I offer in evidence the returns made by Henry C. Kelsey, Sec- 
 retary of State, beginning with the quarter ending June 30th, 
 1879, and I will read one : 
 
 " Trenton, July 1st, 1879. Hon. R. F. Stockton, Comptroller. 
 Sir : In accordance with the provisions of the act entitled an 
 act concerning official fees and rendering account thereof, ap- 
 proved March 4, 1879, 1 herewith band you a statement showing 
 the entire amount of fees and compensation in any form received 
 by me from all sources in any official capacity for services per- 
 formed during the quarter next preceeding this date. See 
 schedule annexed. Very respectfully, Henry C. Kelsey, Secre- 
 tary of State." 
 
 Then follows the schedule, which is sworn to, showing that 
 during that quarter, as Secretary of State, there was received 
 $998 ; as Clerk of the Court of Errors, $99 ; Register of Preroga- 
 tive Court, $144, and Commissioner of Insurance, $486, making 
 a total of $1,728 ; and there is appended to it a statement of ex- 
 pense incurred and paid for clerical services, $1,230. I think that 
 is probably added for the information of the Comptroller's office, 
 but I do not think that it was required by the act. 
 
 Marked " Exhibit 265." 
 
 Also return for the quarter ending September 30th, 1879, 
 showing total receipts $1,429.36; clerical services, $976. 
 
 " Exhibit 266." 
 
 Also return of quarter ending January 1st, 1880, showing total 
 fees, $2,639.78 ; expense incurred and paid for clerical services, 
 $980.50; net balance of the quarter, $1,659.28, to which is 
 appended amount received for two previous quarters which I 
 have mentioned, the quarter ending June, 1879, $498.75; the 
 quarter ending September 30th, 1879, $463.26, making a total for 
 the nine months ending December 3l8t, 1879, that is, net fees, 
 $2,621.29. 
 
 " Exhibit 267." 
 
 Also return for the quarter ending March 31st, 1881 ; total, 
 $6,194.97. 
 
 " Exhibit 268." 
 
766 SECRETARY OF STATE. 
 
 Also return from May Ist, 1880, to April 6th, 1881. This is the 
 end of the term during which the Secretary of State could retain 
 fees to his own use, and is a return, as you see, tor nearly a year. 
 " During the period from May Ist, 1880, to April 6th, 1881, I 
 received fees formerly payable to the Chancellor as Ordinary as 
 Surrogate-General, but now payable to the State, $124.44, from 
 which amount deduct 5 per cent., provided by law, there remains 
 $118.22. 
 
 " Exhibit 269." 
 
 Also return from April 6th to September 30th, 1881, of the 
 Chancellor's fees, net $67.50. 
 
 " Exhibit 270." 
 
 Also return dated October 19th, 1891, of the amounts received 
 from fire insurance companies and distributed to relief associa- 
 tions. 
 
 " Exhibit 271." 
 
 Similar statement of October 27th, 1882. 
 
 " Exhibit 272." 
 
 I also offer the detailed account to April 5, 1880, filed in the 
 Comptroller's office by the Secretary of State, amounting to 
 $16,409.42, showing twenty-one requisitions on the Governors of 
 other States, four warrants on requisitions, &c., a great variety of 
 items and fees received. 
 
 " Exhibit 273." 
 
 That account is made out in detail. 
 
 Senator Skirm— That is prior to 1881 ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes; I suppose, for convenience, made out so; 
 but it was still at the time when the fees belonged to the Secre- 
 tary of State, and the State was not interested in them. 
 
 Also, return of October 30, 1882, statement of fees collected, 
 $193.14. " Exhibit 274." That is for services of the Chancellor 
 and belonged to the State. 
 
 Return dated January 31, 1882, fees for the quarter ending the 
 previous December, $1,402.53. 
 
 "Exhibit 275." 
 
 Also, return for the quarter ending March 31, 1882, $6,791.99. 
 
 " Exhibit 276." 
 
 Also, for the quarter ending June 30, 1882, $2,179.79. 
 
 " Exhibit 277." 
 
 Also for the quarter ending September 30th, 1882, $1,384.21. 
 
 "Exhibit 278." 
 
 I draw the attention of the Committee to the fact that these 
 last four returns, although for the three quarters which I have 
 mentioned, appear all to be sworn to and really furnished the 
 
SECRETARY OP STATE. 767 
 
 same date, that is, October 27th, 1882, and I may say here that 
 the returns from this office have not been made quarterly, but 
 have been made yearly from 1879 to the present time, I think. 
 They have been uniformly handed in at the close of the fiscal 
 year, that is, within the last few days of October in each year. 
 The State's fiscal year, as is well known, runs from November 
 Ist, to October 31st, and while some of these statements appear 
 each for a quarter, they are in fact all made out and sworn to 
 and filed together at the end of the fiscal year. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Yet the law of 1879 requires them to be made 
 quarterly and the amount of money to be paid in within ten days 
 after the quarter ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir; that is one of the facts I read. The law 
 governing this provides for a quarterly statement, and it governs 
 all these subjects I have spoken of. There is another that I shall 
 come to. 
 
 This brings us up to the year 1883. A law passed in that year 
 which has very considerably increased the revenues of the State, 
 and that is the supplement relative to corporations. It is the act 
 of March 5th, 1883, Pamphlet Laws, page 62, whereby it was 
 provided that upon filing with the Secretary of State of this State 
 any certificate of incorporation of any company, there shall be 
 paid by the incorporators named in such certificate to the Secre- 
 tary of State, for the use of the State, the sum of twenty-five 
 dollars for all corporations having an authorized capital of not 
 exceeding one hundred thousand dollars, and one fifth of one 
 dollar per thousand upon the largest amount of capital authorized 
 by its certificate of incorporation. 
 
 That has been added to from time to time from 1883 to the 
 present time, so that when a company enlarges its capital it shall 
 pay a fee, and when it dissolves it shall pay a fee, and when it 
 makes any alteration in its charter it must every time pay a fee. 
 From companies having a large capital this amounts to a very 
 large sum of money, some hundreds of dollars at times, perhaps 
 thousands of dollars. 
 
 You will observe that the language of this act and the other 
 later supplements are all in the same words, to wit : that the 
 money " shall be paid to the Secretary of State for the use of the 
 State ;" there is nothing said as to when he or how he shall pay 
 it into the treasury ; there is nothing about it more than I have 
 read you, " it shall be paid to him for the use of the State." 
 
 Now, I will state right here, as a matter of fact, these returns 
 from this time on show that it has been paid into the State Treas- 
 ury annually in October, practically at the close of the fiscal year. 
 
768 SECRETARY OE STATE. 
 
 I will produce the statemeats to you ; they are like these other 
 statements which I have already shown you, and like those which 
 will follow with regard to other fees, statements in gross, and not 
 with itemized details. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Then the original act which requires him 
 to turn over the moneys received by him apply to moneys there- 
 after received by him from all sources whatsoever ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think you are right about that ; that is the act 
 of 1879. Yes ; " All fees now payable by law to him as Secre- 
 tary of State, (this is the act of March 10, 1879,) Clerk of the 
 Court of Errors, Clerk of the Prerogative Court, Register in the 
 Prerogative Office, Clerk of the Court of Pardons, Commissioner 
 of Insurance, or in any other official capacity whatever, shall be 
 collected by him, and a statement thereof in detail, verified by 
 oath, shall be submitted," &c. " And the Secretary of State shall, 
 within ten days thereafter, pay over the amount of such fees." 
 It says " All fees now payable by law or received in any official 
 capacity whatever." There might be a question whether it re- 
 ferred to future legislation. It is not a new capacity, but it is a 
 new duty cast upon the Secretary of State. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Yes, received by him, though in his 
 official capacity. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — From this time on the return made by the Secre- 
 tary of State is found in one paper each year, one for 1883 and 
 one for 1884, and so on ; that is, one set of papers fastened 
 together. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That is the detailed statement made at the 
 last of the year, as I understand? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is not in detail, but it is a statement. 
 
 The next one which I offer in evidence is the statement of 
 October 30, 1883, and I have prepared a schedule here giving a 
 list of these payments, it may be convenient for the Committee 
 to have in hand. First is the return of moneys received from 
 life insurance companies, |4,428.31 ; the next, services of the 
 Chancellor, $126.90, for the year— the Chancellor as Ordinary of 
 the Prerogative Court. The next under the Corporation act, 
 118,070.96. Marked " Exhibit 279." 
 
 The Comptroller has very kindly made me out a schedule of 
 all these payments, which is a little more in detail than that, 
 showing the amount received for each account, and all summed 
 up, making a total of receipts turned over in October of that 
 year, $84,743.77. ' 
 
 I also offer in evidence the returns for the year 1884, being a 
 
SECRETARY OF STATE. 769 
 
 -total of $35,970.96 turned into the State Treasury. "Exhibit 
 .280." 
 
 Also the return for the year 1885, showing the total of all ac- 
 counts turned into the State Treasury, $31,040.88. " Exhibit 281." 
 
 Also for the year 1886, showing total return into the Trea- 
 sury, $41,292.37, in October of the year. " Exhibit 282." 
 
 Also return of 1887, October 18th, showing total $55,809.62. 
 " Exhibit 283." 
 
 Also return of 1888, showing total $61,689.41 turned into the 
 Treasury. "Exhibit 284." 
 
 Also the return of 1889, showing total $67,854.59 turned into 
 the Treasury, October 23d, 1889. " Exhibit 285." 
 
 Also of the year 1890, showing total of $126,602.44 turned into 
 the Treasury, October 20th, 1890. "Exhibit 286'.'' 
 
 Also return of October 22d, 1891, showing total of $120,196.02 
 turned into the Treasury. " Exhibit 287." 
 
 Also return of 1892, showing total $118,614.15 turned into the 
 Treasury. " Exhibit 288." 
 
 Also return of 1893, showing total $130,736.97 turned into the 
 Treasury. " Exhibit 289." 
 
 Also return of October, 1894, showing total $67,449.36 turned 
 into the Treasury. " Exhibit 290." 
 
 The total of these twelve years, 1883 to 1894, inclusive, turned 
 into the Treasury by the Secretary of State is $891,960.54. Of 
 this there came from filing certificates of corporations, $684,407.83; 
 
 For official fees $175,190 84 
 
 Assessments on private acts 550 00 
 
 Judicial fees 3,017 27 
 
 From insurance companies 54,359 23 
 
 Those figures, if you will foot them up, make $917,525.17. 
 From these figures there are deducted expenses, $25,564.63, 
 leaving the net total, which I mentioned, $891,960.54. 
 
 The Committee will observe at once that the matter has be- 
 come one of very substantial and considerable revenue to the 
 State. Of the matter of fees for filing certificates, as well as 
 other fees of the Secretary of State's office, by far the most im- 
 portant item is the amount derived from the corporations on filing 
 certificates. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Summing- up what you have said, then, 
 Mr. Corbin, the Secretary of State's office was paid fees up to 
 April 6th, 1891 ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — He retained the fees for his own use. 
 
 49 SH 
 
770 SECRETAEY OP STATE. 
 
 Mr. Ketcham — After that salaries were paid and the law- 
 required that a quarterly return of fees should be made and the 
 money paid in ten days thereafter ? 
 
 Mr. Corbie — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — And the facts are that yearly statements 
 were made practically at the end of the year, in October of each 
 year ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir ; that is so. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Why should that be? Is there any good 
 reason why that should be? 
 ■ Mr. Corbin — I think that is a question I will ask Mr. Kelsey. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I thought you had discovered a good reason 
 why that should be so. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — "Well, I suppose the matter was commenced that 
 way probably, and the habit has continued. I suppose, that is 
 all I can say at the present time. 
 
 I mentioned a moment ago the deduction from these figures 
 of twenty-five thousand and odd dollars for expenses. That is to 
 a considerable extent explained by the returns which the Secre- 
 tary of State has made to the State. Those begin in 1889, the 
 year in which I told you that the two acts were passed, one with 
 reference to corporations and one with reference to insurance 
 companies, April 3d and April 4th. Taking tne return for the 
 year ending October, 1889, we have one sheet referring to the 
 corporations, and I will read this statement : 
 
 " Amount received under the Corporation acts, as above, 
 $44,-113.20, less expenses paid under the supplement, approved 
 April 3, 1889, as per three vouchers herewith, $950, leaving the 
 net for which check is sent, $43,463.20." 
 
 The vouchers annexed are receipt of September 30, 1889, from 
 Thomas K. Johnston tor $250 on account of services under the 
 Corporation act in filing list of corporations. 
 
 Also, September 16, 1889, $500 on account of services iu the 
 Department of State. R. S. Stockton. 
 
 And July 25, 1889, $200 on account of services in Department 
 of State. R. S. Stockton. Making $950. 
 
 The supplement which I read required the Secretary of State 
 in the year 1889 to file this list of corporations. I have a later 
 edition of that list here, but there was an earlier edition than 
 1892, 1 think. 
 
 The insurance statement for the year 1889 is as follows : 
 
 Total amount received as above for the year, $7,338.13, less 
 expenses paid, as authorized by the supplement of April 4, 1889, 
 as per two vouchers herewith, $1,227.65, balance check, $6,110.48. 
 
SECRETARY OF STATE. 771 
 
 The vouchers annexed are a receipt of September 30, 1889, for 
 $1,125 for services in Department of State, under the Insurance 
 act during the current year, signed by A. H. Rickey, and the 
 other is a bill for professional services, |102.65, in defending 
 some case, or something of the sort, making the deductions that 
 year of $950 on account of corporations and $1,227.65 on account 
 of insurance, or some $2,200 all told. 
 
 The voucher of 1890 relative to corporations shows that the 
 amount received under the Corporation act was $100,059.72, less 
 expenses paid under the supplement of April 3, 1889, that is for 
 this supplementary list, $700, leaving the net $99,859. The $700 
 is made up as follows : Thomas K. Johnston, $250 for services 
 under the Corporation act ; G. B. Dunning, $100, G-. B. Dunning, 
 $100 ; E. S. Stockton, $250. 
 
 The insurance statement shows total receipts of $7,299.60, less 
 expenses authorized by supplement of April 4, 1890, $1,848.82, 
 leaving net $5,450 78 ; and the vouchers annexed are a receipt 
 by Thomas K. Johnston, $1,125 for services; W. P. "Wells, 
 $109.50 for services, in the insurance department, and Alexander 
 H. Rickey, $425. 
 
 The voucher of 1891 shows the corporation department 
 receipts to be $94,813.03, less expenses paid under the supplement 
 of April 3, 1889, as per four vouchers attached, $3,333.77, made 
 up as follows : G. B. Dunning, $92 for services ; JSTaar, Day & 
 Naar, to printing one thousand cof ies of the list of corporations, 
 210 pages, and a thousand copies of the pamphlet list of corpora- 
 tions of 1890, 58 pages, $2,331.77 ; and S. M. Dickinson, for ser- 
 vices preparing the revision, $200 ; John W. Brooke, services, 
 $720. 
 
 The return of 1892 drops out the insurance expense, for the 
 Insurance Department in that year was removed to another 
 office; but under the corporations statement it appears that the 
 total receipts from corporations were $116,082.44, less expenses 
 as per four vouchers attached, $7,260.58. Those four vouchers 
 are, Naar, Day & Naar, printing and binding two thousand 
 copies corporations of New Jersey, $4,685.58 ; John W. Brooke, 
 for services, $1,000 ; W. P. Wells, for services, $855 ; W. H. 
 Rea, $720. 
 
 The return of 1892 shows that the corporations paid in $125,- 
 571, and the expense, as per ten vouchers attached, $4,409.45, 
 leaving net $121,161.55. The vouchers are Mary S. Gottschalk, 
 $150; M. A. Mitchell, $150; Wm. H. Knowles, $150 for services; 
 "W". H. Rea, for services, $240; G. B. Dunning, $450 for services; 
 W. P. Wells, $625 for services; John W. Brooke, $1,180 for 
 
772 HENEY C. KELSEY. 
 
 services; S. M. Dickinson, $200; Allan McDermott, |200 for legal 
 services in the case of Hull vs. Kelsey; IsTaar, Day & Naar, for 
 printing two thousand copies of the supplement list, 68 pages, 
 $1,064.45. 
 
 The last voucher, the one of the year 1894, shows that the 
 amount received from corporations was $62,459.28, less expenses, 
 under the supplement of April 3d, 1889, as per eight vouchers 
 attached, $4,234.36, leaving net $58,224.92. These vouchers 
 attached are : M. A. Mitchell, for services, $600 ; W. H. Rea, 
 for services, $750 ; G. B. Dunning, services, $500 ; John W. 
 Brooke, for services, $1,200; William S. Potter, for services, 
 $100 ; Naar, Day & ISTaar, for printing supplemental list, &c., 
 and also making some blank books, $1,084.-^6. 
 
 Henry C. Kelsey, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are Secretary of State? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you held that office? A. Since the first of 
 July, 1870. 
 
 Q. Have you a record of the fees collected in your office dur- 
 ing the period from March, 1879, to April, 1881? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you the book here? A. Yes, sir. (Witness produced 
 books.) 
 
 Q. Is this the list of charges, or list of cash items as they come 
 in? A. List of cash items. 
 
 « 
 
 Q. And just in the order in which they came into the office ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. And without reference to what particular account they came 
 from? A. At the time; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who kept this book? A. That was kept by Mr. Hall, 
 Joseph D. Hall ; he was Assistant Secretary of State at that time. 
 
 §. And the other one as well? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (They are entitled cash book No. 8 and No. 4.) 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Mr. Hall was Assistant Sacretary of 
 State at that time, was he not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (^. It was from these books that the returns were made out to 
 the State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, will you please show me the books giving the record 
 of moneys received after April 6, 1881, the date when the new 
 system took effect? A. That is the first one from the 6th of 
 April, 1881. (Book labeled cash book No. 1, beginning April 6, 
 1881.) 
 
 Q. This is kept in the same way ? A. Yes, sir ; it shows the 
 the different heads. 
 
HENEY C. -KELSBY. 773 
 
 Q. This has three columne, Secretary of State, Court of Errors, 
 Prerogative. I see, Mr. Kelsey, from page to page as the book 
 is balanced, that your initials are placed upon it, with the date ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you verify it from month to month and from time to 
 time ? A. Yes, sir ; from time to time when the money was 
 paid over to me I checked it in that way ; that means that up to 
 that time — 
 
 Q. That you had received that amount from Mr. Hall? A. 
 Yes, sir ; and continues in that way to this time. 
 
 Q. And it is from the totals of these books that your returns 
 to the State have been made? A. Yes, sir; Mr. Hall made out 
 the statement. 
 
 Q. Show me those which follow this cash book ISTo. 1 ? A. 
 There is No. 2 and 3. (Witness produced cash books Eos. 2, 3, 4 
 ■and 5, and in ISTo. 5 there are more columns — Corporation, Sec- 
 retdry of State, Court of Errors, Register, Ordinary ; and those 
 that follow likewise. No. 6, No. 7 and No. 8, bringing the record 
 down to the present time.) 
 
 Q. When moneys come into the office are they first entered in 
 this book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then they are classified at that time as to the proper 
 column to which they should go ? A. Yes, sir; at the end of 
 the month Mr. Rickey pays them over to me with a separate 
 list, and I take the list and compare them and check them in the 
 way you see here at the end of each month. 
 
 Q. With your initials ? A. Yes, sir; April, 1895, for instance, 
 total, and the initial ; that corresponds with the list Mr. Rickey 
 delivers to me. 
 
 Q. And the returns to the State are made up from these 
 books ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. One of the Senators ask why your returns to the State had 
 not been made quarterly, as provided by law? A. I am not sure 
 that there is any law requiring me to make any returns to the 
 State at all; the act of 1879, of the 10th of March, I think, re- 
 quired one kind of return, and which it is impossible to make ; 
 a few days later, on the 14th of March, I think, an act was ap- 
 proved requiring anotheirsort of a return, which I made. 
 
 Q. Had you ever observed that the act of March 10th referred 
 solely to fees received for the use of the State, and that the act of 
 March 14th referred solely to fees received for the use of the 
 clerk or officer ? A. Yes, sir; the following act repealed all acts 
 and parts of acts — the usual repealing clause — and then in 1881, 
 
774 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 before my term began, and there was a lapse of one year there 
 which you failed to take note of; it is immaterial, I think. 
 
 Q. Yes; between 1881 and 1882 you held over? A. Yes; 
 failed to be confirmed ; but in 1881, I think, while my nomina- 
 tion was pending for the full term which would have begun 
 April Ist or 6th, another act was passed in regard to the salary 
 of the Secretary of State, which made no provision for any re- 
 turn whatever ; my nomination was sent in to the Senate, had 
 been already sent, if my recollection is right, but was rejected ; 
 after the adjournment of the Legislature the Governor appointed 
 me for the interim, and the following winter, in 1882, appointed 
 me for the full term, and I was confirmed ; I continued making 
 the returns as I had done before and turning over to the State 
 every dollar I had received. 
 
 Q. You speak of the act of 1881. You refer, do you not, to 
 the supplement which I read to the Senators? A. Yes, sir; I 
 think so. 
 
 Q. Which provides that no other compensation shall be had 
 except the salary ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And do you say that you were in doubt about the law 
 requiring you to make returns? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — What is the exact language ? 
 A. I hold that a strict construction of those three acts, take 
 them together, would not require me to make up the return at 
 all. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then why should there be any return 
 made, if the law don't require it, even once a year, if there was 
 no obligation to make a return? A. Because I didn't receive 
 the money for myself; it was for the use of the State. At the 
 end of the fiscal year, before the closing, I always returned every 
 dollar I had received. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — As I read the acts, they are not incon- 
 sistent with each other in the respect referred to. 
 
 The act of March 10th, 1879, referred exclusively to 
 returns for fees received by the Secretary of State for 
 the use of the State, and provided for their payment 
 quarterly, or within ten days after the expiration of the 
 quarter, under heavy penalties, and required a detailed 
 return, the word " detail " being used. The act passed 
 four days later referred exclusively to fees received by 
 officers for their own use, and although it did contain a 
 general repealer it only repealed inconsistent legislation, 
 and I don't see anything in it inconsistent with the act 
 of March 10th, for the two acts referred to two entirely 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 775 
 
 separate subjects. Now, the supplement of 1881 simply 
 said, in very emphatic language indeed, that thereafter 
 the Secretary of State should receive no compensation, 
 except the six thousand dollars heretofore provided in 
 the act of 1879, and should have the four thousand dol- 
 lars allowance for clerk hire. It was rather, it seems to 
 me, confirmatory of the act of March 10th, 1879, than 
 a repealer of anything in it ; I can't see that it in any 
 way modified it ; the returns have been made, but they 
 have been made annually instead of quarterly. 
 Q. In making the returns of the State's moneys, why did you 
 not return them in detail, as specified in the act of March 10th, 
 1879? A. That is a question I can hardly answer; I may have 
 had the list made up from the cash account under the several 
 headings; I didn't understand the act to mean that there should 
 be a complete list furnished to the Comptroller of every item of 
 cash received, varying from fifty cents to thousands of dollars in 
 some cases. It is a matter of record, and here it is, and my 
 attention was never called to that feature from first to last, and I 
 never contemplated it ; and if I were asked now my construction 
 upon that act, I would say that it required me to make a return 
 in total ; the detail had reference to the several subjects, sources 
 of revenue from the corporations, from the official fees payable 
 to the office, and that is the way the books have been kept, and 
 not as to details. 
 
 Q. The act of March 14th, in reference to fees which you can 
 retain, provides in words, that your returns shall be in gross, 
 specifying the gross amount from each of these difierent sources. 
 A. Again that has that repealing clause. 
 
 Q. It doesn't refer to the same subject ? A. Of course, pos- 
 sibly one act referred to one class of fees and another to another, 
 but from that date to this, Mr. Corbin, that question has never 
 been raised. 
 
 Q. I suppose these books have never been examined by any 
 of the State officers, have they ? A. No, sir; they were always 
 subject to examination by the Comptroller whenever he chose to 
 call for them. 
 
 Q. But the financial officers of the State haven't, as a matter 
 of fact, examined them ? A. They have not. 
 
 Q. And you have submitted to the Comptroller only these 
 statements which I have mentioned? A. Yes, sir; that is all. 
 
 Q. And these statements, do they not give the annual total 
 amount which you have received and turned over from each of 
 the several amounts? A. Yes, sir. 
 
776 HENKY C. KELSEY. 
 
 Q. One total for corporations ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. One for insurance, and one for court fees, and so on? A^ 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When did you pay over the moneys? A. The day the 
 return was made. 
 
 Q. In October of each year? A.- Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. All at one time, I suppose? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where did you keep the moneys of the State in the mean- 
 time? A. They were entered into my personal account and were 
 kept with my personal funds. 
 
 Q. You had no separate account with them ? A. N'o, sir. 
 
 Q. I presume you deposited them in the bank, of coarse? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Where did you keep the State's iunds ? A. la the bank — 
 th3 Mechanics Bank of Trenton ; I had two accounts — Mechanics 
 Bank of Trenton, and Sussex Bank, of Newton; cMefly the 
 Mechanics Bank here at Trenton. 
 
 Q. How often were these cash books balanced and verified by 
 your initials? A. Once a month; since the salary system begun 
 I think regularly once a month; previously, under the fee sys- 
 tem, from time to time, as I have already stated ; the Assistant 
 Secretary of State keeps the cash account and returns to me, 
 and I verify it and receipt to him for it when it comes. 
 
 Q. When you returned the moneys to the State in October 
 annually, did you return all collected up to the end of October 
 or to the end of the previous month ? A. The fiscal year ends 
 September 30th; you will find my returns shows it for the year 
 ending September 30th, I think. 
 
 Q. Yes, I see by looking at these returns which you made in 
 October that they are made for a year, ending September 30th. 
 This one says September 30th, 1894, so that the return does not 
 agree exactly with the fiscal year. The fiscal year ends October 
 31st; they are made during the month of October, generally 
 between the 20th and 30th, so that they are one month behind the 
 fiscal year. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Are they made for twelve months ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir ; made for the twelve months. For in- 
 stance, taking this account ; I have the cash book in my hand 
 for the year ending September 30th, 1893. The first month 
 returned in that year would be the month of October, 1892. 
 
 Q. Your receipts, then, for that first month of the year would 
 be $10,477, as shown on page 94, the amount footed here? 
 A. Yes, sir; $10,477.40. 
 
HENEY C. KELSBY. 777 
 
 Q. And for the month of November, $5,818.41. I desire to 
 show about how they run for the difierent times of the year ? 
 A. For the month of December, 1892, $11,860.53; month of 
 January, 1893, $9,914.48; month of February, 1893, $13,061.72; 
 March, 1893, $16,984.39; April, $7,875.61; May, $32,946.12; 
 June, $9,206.89; July, 1893, $6,316.65 ; August, 1893, $2,958.81, 
 and September, 1893, $4,977.41. 
 
 Q. Do these collections run about the same throughout the 
 year, or were there some periods when they were more active ? 
 A. No; as to periods, I don't think tkat makes much difference 
 on that account, but they have varied ; the annual receipts have 
 varied, as you will have noticed, by reason of the larger or 
 smaller volume of corporation business; the fees run along 
 about the same. 
 
 Q. JSTow, take the year which I have mentioned, which seems 
 to be the largest one there, $130,000, 1893 — the last two or three 
 months of the year were the smallest months of all. Now, in 
 that case you really had in your hands of the State's money from 
 fifty to one hundred thousand dollars for a large part of the year, 
 did you ? J.. I don't remember ; I can't tell without looking at 
 the record ; the book shows. 
 
 Q. Wouldn't it be a better plan for the Legislature to regulate 
 that subject of payment, don't you think, at some more frequent 
 intervals ? 4. I see no reason why it should not be done. An- 
 swering your question categorically, I should say it would, be- 
 cause if the corporation policy that has become pretty well settled 
 in this State, is followed, the revenue from that source is liable 
 to continue to be very large, and as far as I know, certainly 
 speaking for myself, there is every disposition on the part of the 
 officials of the State to encourage that policy, because it is a 
 source of large legitimate revenue, without any offset whatever ; 
 I think there is no man more familiar with the subject than your- 
 self. 
 
 Q. It is easily collected ? A. Easily collected, and does no 
 citizen any harm ; I mean as to the liberal policy of the corpora- 
 tions; the revenue to the State from that source, through the 
 original filings and annual tax, if the same policy is pursued, as 
 it might be and should be, it ought to reach a million dollars a 
 year within a very short time ; I mean from the miscellaneous 
 corporations. 
 
 Q. Including the taxation of the franchise? A. Yes, sir; 
 including the State Board of Assessors' taxation. 
 
 Q. It is subject to change with the change of times ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
778 HENRY C. KEL8EY. 
 
 Q. In times of panic? A. Yes, sir; it has been falling off. 
 Q. I see the last year it has broke off to about half? A. Yes; 
 there were none of the large ones last year. 
 
 Q. How is the revenue this year? A. There are no large 
 matters; they have been running along about the same; in April, 
 $5,909; March, about the same, $4,617; February, smaller, 
 $2,855, from corporations ; January, $3,944. 
 
 Q. Then, since this act went into effect, in 1883, taking your 
 calculations since last September, and add them to the $891,000 
 you have turned in, you have collected for the State a revenue of 
 more than $900,000, have you not ? J.. I haven't gone over that, 
 but I have it here, prepared some time ago for another purpose. 
 Q. It is, roughly, $900,000 ? A. Yes, sir ; I should say so ; 
 my impression is it amounted to $663,519.67. 
 
 Q. And I understand you that, during all those twelve years, 
 there has been no audit of your accounts by any of the State 
 officers, or by anybody else, except your own private — A. I 
 made out returns. 
 
 Q. I am not now questioning the correctness of it at all. A- 
 
 Nobody, except so far as I have made reports to the Comptroller. 
 
 Q. But the State has caused no audit to either of these 
 
 accounts which you have presented, or your check books, or any 
 
 examination whatever to be made ? A. N"o, sir ; none. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I submit to the Committee that such a 
 large revenue does demand some sort of supervision or 
 inspection by some officer charged with the collection of 
 the revenues and the disbursement of them. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I understand Mr. Kelsey to say that 
 these accounts of moneys received were deposited 
 either in the Mechanics Bank or in the Sussex Bank, 
 to his own credit? 
 Witness — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Now, I ask you, as a matter of in- 
 formation for the Committee, is there any State officer 
 who receives money in large amounts, except the State 
 Treasurer? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Dairy Commissioner receives some 
 fines on behalf of the State. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Small amounts. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— Last year they were $800; the largest 
 amount in any year was 8,000 and odd dollars. The 
 prosecutors of the pleas and clerks of the courts receive 
 fees, fines and forfeits, but nothing, I think, so large as 
 those. 
 
HENKY C. KBLSEY. 779 
 
 Senator Skirm — I suppose, in case of the death of 
 the Secretary of State — leaving Mr. Kelsey entirely out 
 of the question — supposing, with this large amount of 
 money, from the first of September, accumulating until 
 the next October, a year, suppose in case of the death 
 of the Secretary of State, and the money deposited to 
 his individual credit, vrhere vpould the State be ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I suppose the State vrould have to prove 
 its claim against the estate and await its distribution. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Would it not be proper, then, for 
 the Legislature to cover the matter so as to make the 
 deposits either with the State Treasury, of the money 
 received, or into the account as Secretary of State ? As 
 I understand, I presume the Secretary of State gives 
 but very little bond. Of course it is not a question of 
 integrity on the part of the present Secretary of State; 
 it is only a question concerning the matter of revenue 
 to the State hereafter. 
 
 Mr. Oorbin — I have brought the matter to the atten- 
 tion of the Committee by direction of the Chairman and 
 other members, for the very reason that it seemed that 
 large revenues are by the law, or the practice, left with 
 exceedingly unsatisfactory supervision. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Without any reflection upon the 
 present Secretary of State, it is only the custom and 
 manner in which it has grown up. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — We can well imagine that to leave with 
 a Secretary of State who is not personally responsible so 
 large a sum as $125,000 might be dangerous. 
 
 Senator Skirm — JSTow, while the present Secretary of 
 State has been here from 1870, of course I suppose every 
 member of the Committee would give the Secretary of 
 State the credit of having the best-kept office, the best- 
 conducted oflBce, possibly, in the Capitol, that is without 
 any reflection on the other State officers, but there may 
 come a time when there would not be as efficient a Sec- 
 retary of State as Mr. Kelsey, and it seems to me that 
 there ought to be some safeguard thrown around the 
 successor, if not himself. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I am quite ready to agree that the Sec- 
 retary of State's office, so far as its treatment of people 
 who have to do with it is concerned, is certainly a most 
 admirable office ; I don't like to institute comparisons ; 
 I wouldn't like to say it was better than the Comp- 
 
780 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 troUer's or Treasurer's office ; I think they are 
 model offices in the method of their conduct and 
 in their treatment of those who have to do business 
 with them, and so possibly with some other offices in 
 the State House; in that respect the State has been 
 singularly fortunate in having officers of great intelli- 
 gence. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And integrity. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir ; and men of courtesy as well ; 
 but it is with the view of calling this Committee's 
 attention especially to this question, whether it is proper 
 to leave so large a part of our revenue without further 
 legislative protection. I don't think it is. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Senator Skirm has named a con- 
 tingency, and I think we all realize the fact that some 
 legislation should be had whereby these matters could 
 be better regulated. We have brought out the fact that 
 the Secretary of State at a single time has had as much 
 as $75,000 of the State's money in his private account. 
 I would like to know if at some period during that time 
 the State has not been a borrower and been paying 
 interest, to pay its debts in years past. 
 
 Mr. Kelsey — Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — As near as I answer you off hand, in the 
 year 1887, Mr. Kelsey turned over a little less than 
 $56,000; in 1888, $61,000; in 1889, $67,000; in 1890, 
 $120,000; in 1891, $120,000; in 1892, $118,000; in 
 1893, $130,000. JSTow, one of the Treasurer's testified 
 the other day with reference to the time when our loans 
 were last paid off, and I am not sure — 
 
 Senator Ketcham — He said it was in 1891, the State 
 was a borrower. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think Treasurer Gray testified when 
 he took office in 1891 that the State was a borrower, 
 but when the funds came in under act of Congress for 
 the return of the direct tax, that they then paid ofi 
 that debt, and since then, which must have been about 
 1892, the State has not been a borrower, but for a num- 
 ber of years previous to 1892, unquestionably the State 
 Treasury was a borrrower. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Won't you ask Mr. Kelsey this, 
 without reflecting upon him or anybody else, won't you 
 ask him this question, whether he doesn't think that, as 
 a wise public officer, law or no law, statute or no statute, 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 781 
 
 that as soon as the money is collected for the State it 
 should be immediately turned over to the State, and 
 not put into a private account. 
 
 Witness — Within certain limitations ; yes, sir ; there 
 is no reason in the world that I know of why a return 
 should not be made monthly by every officer to the 
 State Treasury, who collects public funds ; as to doing 
 it immediately, I would say that would be rather im- 
 practicable, and I take it that the Senator doesn't mean 
 that. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Take it in the city of Newark, for 
 instance; I believe the Comptroller there every night 
 makes up, or the City Treasurer makes up his report 
 and turns his money over daily, and it goes into the 
 bank daily in the name of the city. 
 
 Witness — Yes, and ITewark City Treasurers once in 
 a while default. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — They would default still more if 
 they had the money in their possession much longer. 
 
 Witness — Perhaps so. No, I see no reason, but I 
 would say that would be hardly a practical business 
 proposition. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — You understand we are not reflect- 
 ing upon you in asking these questions. We simply 
 want to get at the facts of the case and know what is a 
 wise policy to pursue. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I understand Mr. Kelsey to say that 
 at stated times — Senator Herbert suggests it — with my 
 knowledge of accounts, it seems to me that it would be 
 difficult, as the money comes in in small amounts very 
 often, as 50 cents, &c. Therefore it would be almost 
 impracticable to render, as suggested by Senator 
 Ketcham, a daily statement. 
 
 Witness — Quite so. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But if any legislation could be passed 
 to make the settlement monthly it would possibly accom- 
 plish the same purpose without any interference with the 
 duties of your office ? 
 
 Witness — As counsel has already called your attention 
 to the system, and he had examined it previously, it is 
 perfectly simple, and I am largely indebted to the sim- 
 plicity and the perfection of the system — and I think it 
 is as perfect as can be — largely indebted to the Assistant 
 Secretary of State, Mr. Rickey ; there is no reason that 
 
782 HENEY C. KELSEY. 
 
 I can think of why at the end of a month, the day I 
 check that up to Mr. Rickey — these red figures indicate 
 what deposits are made— the deposits up to that point 
 at the end of the month would be the amount, and I 
 receipt to him in this way (indicating on book). There 
 is no reason as to convenience, or anything else, why that 
 amount should not be turned over on that date on the 
 close of the month. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Committee will notice at the pres- 
 ent time these receipts run five or six thousand dollars 
 a month ; if they were paid over every day it would be 
 a matter of two or three hundred dollars daily ; it could 
 be done, of course. 
 
 Witness — It would be troublesome to the financial 
 officers. 
 Q. I asked you to bring with you your check books in which 
 were deposited the money of the State? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Will you show them ? A. ?es, sir ; I have both Mechanics 
 and Sussex bank checks here, but for a long time past — in fact 
 from the beginning the bulk of my accounts — 
 
 Q. Are State moneys in both, or only in the Mechanics? A. 
 Only in the Mechanics of late. Here is the one in use now ; 
 there are the checks for several accounts drawn to the order of 
 the State Treasurer when I made the return to the Comptroller 
 last October ; the deposits are there indicated by the red tapes. 
 Q. This, then, is your personal check book? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And has your personal matters in it ? A. All my personal 
 affairs in it. 
 
 Q. As well as matters of the State? A. Yes, sir; here are the 
 pass books. 
 
 Q. Referring to this check book which you have produced, 
 being the one for the present year, 1895, I see that the balance 
 in it as struck in the early part of April is $1,444.16. You have 
 shown us your cash book showing that the receipts since the first 
 of October on behalf of the State have been some $5,000 per 
 month, so that the State moneys which you have received are not 
 now in this book, are they? A. They are absorbed in my per- 
 sonal account and do not appear separately anywhere. 
 
 Q. That is, you do not leave them in the bank ? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Do you transfer them to another bank? A. No, sir. 
 Q. Have you any way then of identifying at any time the 
 State's moneys in case an emergency should arise ? ^. Yes, sir ; 
 this cash book shows. 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 783 
 
 Q. That shows the amouut you owe the State ? A. And shows 
 the several items, and I keep a list ; I keep, on making a deposit, 
 a schedule of the several items, every cheek and name of the 
 drawer and cash. 
 
 Q. I think you are quite right in saying that, in view of these 
 cash books there is no difficulty in arriving at the amount of the 
 State's moneys and of how the items arose, but if the money is 
 deposited in your own account and then again drawn out of 
 it, the identity of the money is certainly lost ? A. That is true. 
 
 Q. And you haven't it in either of your bank accounts? A. It 
 is a personal matter when it is in there; I have never kept an 
 official account since I have been in the office. 
 
 Q. It is practically then absorbed into your personal affairs and 
 accounts? A. That is it. 
 
 Q. Now, I observe that the receipts on behalf of the State for 
 the month of October, 1894, were $6,089.77 ; November, 1894, 
 were $6,531.64; December, 1894, $6,436.57; January, 1895, 
 $4,779.72; February, 1895, $4,142.54; March, 1895, $5,447.17 ; 
 April, 1895, $5,709.72. Then since your last return to the State 
 you have received and still have some $39,000 of the State's 
 money ? A. Yes, sir ; less some items of expense. 
 
 Q. This bank account, as last balanced, appears to have in it 
 but $1,444? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that really you have transferred it to your own personal 
 operations, have you not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And have you any means of following it and identifying it 
 in case of trouble and emergency? A. I think that would be 
 very difficult. 
 
 Q. Now, on October 29th, 1894, you paid over to the State in 
 one day some $67,854 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And yet I see that when your bank-book was balanced the 
 last time before that day, your balance appears to be but 
 $1 290.57. So that really the same state of affairs was true last 
 year as this year, was it not? A. Every year. 
 
 Q. In other words, you have not kept these moneys in the 
 bank and allowed the bank balance to acccumulate, but they have 
 been absorbed, as you stated, in your affairs? A. Yes, sir; I 
 kept no separate account at all. 
 
 Q. Nor have you left the moneys in any particular account in 
 the bank? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. That, of course, puts you to the necessity of raising and 
 providing funds every October ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. To pay them ? A. Yes, sir ; I have always been able to do 
 it. 
 
784 HENEY C. KELSEY. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — I don't quite understand this. 
 As I understand, from the last report up to the present 
 time those books of account show $39,133 received, and 
 the check book shows $1,444 balance. In other words, 
 there is $37,689 of the State's money that is not 
 accounted for in that check book. Is that it ? 
 Witness — Hardly that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — He says it was absorbed in his personal 
 affairs. 
 
 Senator Ketcham— That is, $87,689 of the State's 
 moneys are absorbed in his personal affairs ? 
 Witness — Yes, sir, and the $1,400 also. 
 Senator Ketcham — That is worse yet. 
 Witness — Yes, it all stands in ray own account. 
 Q. In other words, in making investments on your own ac- 
 count you invest also whatever your balance may be of the 
 State's money? A. I keep no separate account whatever. 
 
 Q. N"or do you leave in the bank the money that belongs to 
 the State, but use it until the time comes for paying it ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Examined by Senator Ketcham : 
 
 Q. Is that invested anywhere ? A. ISTot on account of the 
 State. 
 
 Q. On a private account ? A. Sometimes it is, sometimes it 
 isn't. 
 
 Q. If it is invested, then of course you received something for 
 the investment "i A. 1 generally try to. 
 
 Q. That is, you receive interest on the State's money ; is that 
 it ? 4. If it is to be called the State's money, I suppose so. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — That is what I want to find out. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin : 
 
 Q. Is it embarked in any enterprise where it is liable to be 
 lost ? A. No, I think not. 
 
 Q. Is it invested in securities which are proper investment for 
 State funds? A. Why, I think so; at any rate I am personally 
 responsible for the amount, and have always been able to pay the 
 amount due the State at the end of the year ; have always done 
 so, and can do it to-day. 
 
 Q. In what is this $39,000 of the State's money which you now 
 have now invested ? A. That I am unable to say. 
 
 Q. That is, you cannot distinguish it from your other moneys ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
HENRY C. KELSET. 785 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — That can hardly be said to be paid 
 over to you for the use of the State, can it ? A. Well, the State 
 ■will get it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — G-et the interest as well as the 
 principal? A. No provision in the act for that, as far as I know. 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Do we want a provision in the acts 
 to cover cases like this? A. I don't know about that, Senator. 
 
 Q. I will ask you one more question in reference to it : you 
 say you cannot distinguish it ; have you a sufficient amount of 
 such securities as would be proper for trust funds, with which 
 you can repond with this $39,000 1 A. 1 can ; I think I can 
 raise the money and pay it to the State to-day, if it is desired. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — May I ask this question : Would 
 you, at the request of this Committee, without any law whatso- 
 ever, before the Legislature can pass a law upon the subject, 
 VT^ould you turn this money over directly to the Treasurer at the 
 request of the Committee? A. Why, I have the very highest 
 respect for this Committee and its counsel. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Do you have as much as 1 that for 
 them ? J.. I shall have to answer that question in thejaffirmative. 
 If this Committee will request me formally, or personally infor- 
 mally, I will pay it into the State treasury up to the end of the 
 last quarter promptly. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't think, Mr. Chairman, it is a 
 question at all of Mr. Kelsey's ability to respond with 
 $39,000, nor yet of any fear that we have at this moment 
 of the State's losing any of this money. It is rather as 
 to the method that has been pursued, and as to what 
 shall be done with respect to the future. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Take the contingency Senator 
 Skirm spoke of. Suppose he should die ; the State 
 would be left in this dilemma, and should a public 
 officer leave the State in that condition an hour ? 
 
 Witness — I don't think Senator Skirm intended to 
 intimate that — 
 
 Senator Skirm — No, I only asked the question in case 
 of the death of any other man. Of course this Com- 
 mittee realize the fact that Mr. Kelsey is fully able to 
 deliver any amount he owes, whether it is $39,000 or 
 $399,000, or any other amount that would be due, and 
 therefore I don't mean at all to reflect on that line, only 
 that the contingency might arise that in the case of the 
 death of a Secretary of State with that amount in his 
 hands ; of course my question was about how the State 
 
 50 SH 
 
786 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 would be reimbursed, and Mr. Corbin replied, by simply 
 filing a claim, and of course it would be paid by th& 
 executors. 
 
 Witness — Now, I want to say, Mr. Chairman, that I 
 think rather favorably of Senator Ketcham's suggestion ; 
 at the same time, I don't know whether the Committee 
 would consider that within their province. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — I think as State officers, both Secre- 
 tary of State and Senators ought to see that public 
 money is carefully looked after, and it is to our interest 
 here in this public inquiry to reach a result that will be 
 satisfactory to you and to us, and to the entire State, 
 and the suggestion was made with that view. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I would raise the same question, Mr.. 
 Chairman, that the province of this Committee is not to 
 aek the Secretary ot State to do anything. He is a 
 State officer, and, therefore, as one member of the Com- 
 mittee, I should feel very loath to make any request of 
 any State officer or any one else to do anything which 
 is not in the province of this Committee, and to ask Mr. 
 Kelsey to turn over any money he may have as a State 
 officer to the State Treasury I think would be outside of 
 the province of this Committee. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It is rather an assumption on 
 our part. 
 
 Witness — I will say most emphatically that ehould 
 the Legislature at the coming session pass an act requir- 
 ing the public officers holding State moneys to pay them 
 into the State Treasury at the end of the month, and 
 monthly thereafter, I should be prompt to respond. 
 Q. In October, 1893, you paid to the State Treasurer 
 $130,736.97, and I see that by your check book on the second of 
 October, a few days before that, your balance in the bank was 
 but $2,058.71 ; I suppose you provided the necessary amount 
 between those dates to make the payments, of course ? A. 1 did. 
 Q. That has been your custom each year ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. On October 24, 1892, you paid in $118,614.15 in like 
 manner? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And I observe that then your balance on October 11, a few 
 days before, was but $9,245.44? A. The checks were paid 
 though. 
 
 Q. Under this method, then, it becomes necessary for you 
 every October to raise a very large sum of money, does it not ? 
 A. Sufficient to cover that amount ; yes, sir. 
 
HENRY C. KKLSBY. 787 
 
 Q. Do you embark this money in business, or do you invest it 
 in securities in the name ot the State? A. Well, it is mingled 
 with my f ands ; and I am interested in business, and I have se- 
 curities ; the securities are of late rather better than the busi- 
 ness ; I have never embarked it as such, separately, at all ; I 
 have never done anything of that kind. 
 
 Q. But you have simply drawn upon it for whatever the ne- 
 cessities of the hour might be, as if it were your own balance? 
 A. That is it. 
 
 Q. And whether that necessity happened to be an investment 
 in bonds or stocks or the requirements of a business enterprise, 
 you have drawn your check and it has been honored ? A. That 
 is it. 
 
 Q. And to that extent, until October, you have treated the 
 money as if it were your own ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. On October 22d, 1891-, the amount paid by you to the State 
 was $120,156.02; your balance on October 1st appears on your 
 check book to be $2,863.37. The saoie course, I suppose, was 
 pursued then? ^L. The same in every case, Mr. Corbin. 
 
 q. In October, 1890, you paid to the State |126,602.44. Your 
 balance on October 1st was $378.97 ; so that, that year you had 
 substantially to provide it all ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. By other means than your bank account. Well, I suppose, 
 the same procedure substantially for each year? A. All the 
 way through, uniform practice. 
 
 Chairman Yoorhees — Mr. Corbin, may I ask if it has 
 not generally been the interpretation of statutes that 
 where a time is not fixed to pay over funds received by 
 officers of the State, that it means immediately ? 
 (>S'ee Eevision p. 1219, § Ji-O.) 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That, sir, is my view of it. If this law 
 which I have read doesn't require the payment of the 
 money at each quarter, which I understand Mr. Kelsey 
 to say be feels quite confident it does not, then the law 
 which says that the Secretary of State shall receive the 
 money for the use of the State, means for the instant 
 use of the State. In other words, he is merely the hand 
 that receives the gold to put it into the treasury; just as 
 Col. Toffey, when he was Treasurer, or Mr. Gray, or at 
 the present time Mr. Swain, is the instrument of the 
 State to receive the funds and put them into the vault ; 
 they are the mere hand of the State ; and in these acts 
 the Secretary of State was made the receiving officer to 
 this extent, but the funds the instant they were paid by 
 
788 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 the corporations were the funds of the State. Under 
 our system of finance there can be no doubt that there 
 is one proper place for all the funds of the State, and 
 that is the State Treasury. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Now, right in line of that, sec- 
 tion 24 of the Comptroller act [Revision, 1^17) provides 
 that it shall be the duty of the Comptroller to examine, 
 audit, adjust and settle all the accounts due to the State, 
 and certify the amount adjusted to the State Treasurer. 
 Ought not the Comptroller to have certified and audited 
 first, and then settled the accounts that were due to the 
 State from the Secretary of State ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, and this act which I have read to 
 you relative to fees, and these acts with reference to re- 
 turns and reports, also say that the Comptroller shall 
 examine these and certify to the Treasurer their correct- 
 ness, and the Treasurer shall then, within ten days, 
 receive the money. The only examination that I find 
 any evidence of is upon the face of these, or some of 
 them; an entry by the Comptroller, " entered in the 
 Comptroller's book," such a date, signed Comptroller; 
 but anything like an investigation of the details evi- 
 dently has not been made. The paper has been exam- 
 ined upon its face, but I think nothing like any audit 
 or supervision of this branch of the revenues of the State 
 has been exercised by anybody. 
 
 Chairman Yoorhees — I have no doubt they have been 
 correctly kept, and the Secretary's method of keeping 
 his books is commendable. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do you mean that you believe it is 
 the duty of the Comptroller to examine the accounts of 
 the Secretary of State ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I look upon the Comptroller's office as 
 one of the most important in the State ; he is to take 
 supervision of the finances of the State ; he can bring 
 witnesses before him ; he sits as a court ; he can lay his 
 hand upon a bill and it will never be paid until he takes 
 it off ; you cannot sue the State. His powers are great, 
 and I think he can go into every detail of the receipts 
 and disbursements of this government. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Wot only can he, but it is ex- 
 pressly made his duty. 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 789 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, of course we should be reasonable 
 in considering any law ; men who are entrusted with 
 the collection of revenues must be trusted ; meu must 
 be trusted with the disbursements of it. 
 
 The law created the office of Comptroller and took 
 it out of the Treasurer's duties and gave it to him 
 for the very purpose of having a m^n whose eye was 
 constantly on the receipts and disbursements of this 
 State, seeing to it that they were thoroughly cared for, 
 as an owner of a business would do. The Comptroller 
 stands nearer in the position of the proprietor than 
 any other officer. The Secretary of State was formerly 
 the auditor, when the State grew an independent office 
 was set up, and that duty of auditing and supervising, 
 burdensome though it be, is one of the highest duties 
 of the Comptroller ; I have no doubt he has exercised 
 it to a very considerable degree. These books of the 
 Secretary of State should have been examined, I think, 
 annually for these past twelve years, and all verified 
 and certified. 
 
 I am not now criticising the Comptroller, but an ex- 
 amination was a thing the Comptroller might have 
 made. Here are records, which Mr. Kelsey produces, 
 which were kept right across the hall, and certainly the 
 Comptroller could have put an expert accountant there 
 and examined them from year to year. ITow, whether 
 the Comptroller's act should be more explicit, or 
 whether his duties are already sufficiently defined, is a 
 matter for legislation. 
 
 Further, the keeping of the State's f ands in the way 
 they have been kept, was one of the things which the 
 Comptroller might well have remarked upon, and might 
 have changed if he saw fit. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Did you ask Mr. Kelsey as to the 
 amount of interest he had realized from State fands? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I did not. Mr. Kelsey has said that he 
 cannot trace any of these moneys ; that he used them 
 as if they were his own. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — We asked a witness the other day 
 
 who had had interest out of the State's money, how 
 
 much he had received. Don't you think we ought to 
 
 try and find it out now ? 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Don't you think you could inform 
 
790 heNry c. kelsey. 
 
 the Committee as to how much money haq been received by you 
 as interest upon State funds? A. I could not. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Have you no way of finding it out? 
 A. jSTone at all. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham)— Why, your books are kept in such 
 excellent style, it seems to me they could be examined? A. Yes, 
 but when this money comes to me it becomes part of my per- 
 sonal account, and 1 couldn't begin to tell. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — We all have personal accounts, 
 and know how much it costs ns to live, and can strike a fair 
 average and then take the balance? A. I don't know how much 
 it costs me to live. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham)— I think if I had money from the 
 State, as interest upon its funds, I would want to find out how 
 much I owed the State; I would feel uncomfortable until I did 
 know. A. 1 can't tell how much I received by way of interest 
 at all. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — These are unpleasant questions, 
 but I think we ought to do our duty; they are unpleasant to ask, 
 as they are unpleasant to you to answer, but I think the Com- 
 mittee ought to know, and if there is any answer to be had they 
 they should have it. A. "Very, very difficult indeed, because, as 
 I have stated, it becomes the money — once paid into my hands 
 goes into my personal account. If I should take and strike a 
 balance between it as to my investments during the last fifteen 
 years, I am afraid the balance would be on the wropg side, then 
 I would bring the State in debt, I am very apprehensive. 
 
 Q. When you borrow money from the bank do they let you 
 have it without interest, if you don't make anything out of it? 
 A. IsTo; I never found that kind of banks. 
 
 Q. Then you can hardly expect the State to be as liberal as 
 that with you? A. No; jesting aside, I have kept no separate 
 account; I have no way of ascertaining whether I have lost 
 money or made money. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You say you have a business and 
 made investments; you are a wise and careful and competent 
 business man. It does seem to me, and I think it appears to 
 the Committee, that j'our having received the benefit from these 
 funds, call it interest or whatever you may please to call it, you 
 should know something and could tell something as to w^hat pro- 
 fit or benefit you have received from these funds ? A. Absolutely 
 impossible to answer that question. 
 Recess. 
 
HENEY C. KELSEY. 791 
 
 Q. Were any of the statements which you filed with the 
 Comptroller or Treasurer ever challenged or questioned by them 
 as to the time of filing, or the amount or the method of your 
 procedure? A. Never. 
 
 Q. They never made any question about it ? A. Never. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I would like to ask right there, who 
 were the Comptrollers during the term. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think Mr. Kelsey took his office in 
 1870. 
 
 Witness — Beginning in 1870. 
 Q. But the returns to the State commenced in 1879? 
 
 Senator Skirm — Who was the Comptroller at that 
 time? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Stockton, I think, and after Mr. 
 Stockton, Major Anderson, and after Major Anderson, 
 Col. Heppenheimer, and after him, the present Comp- 
 troller, Mr. Hancock. 
 A. There was never a question raised of my method or form 
 or anything else except that in regard to the fees, in the Preroga- 
 tive Court of the Register. After the passage of the act of 1891, 
 Comptroller Heppenheimer thought they ought not to be retained 
 on the ground that it might be held by the court to be an in- 
 crease of my compensation during the running of my then term, 
 and I credited them according to that suggestion although I 
 didn't agree with the contention. 
 
 Q. And yOu took those Prerogative fees only after the begin- 
 ning of your new term in 1892? A. No, sir; the next two 
 quarters I retained them and that showed in the following state- 
 ment and there was no question raised. 
 
 Q. Did you say " retained " them or " returned" them? A. 
 The last two quarters of my term then running I retained them ; 
 the next two quarters after the act was passed he challenged it 
 and we had some discussion about it and I waived it. 
 
 Q. Well, after that and from thence until the present time you 
 have retained those fees coming from the Prerogative Court, have 
 you not, to your own use ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you made any return to the State from 1891 to the 
 present time of the amount of those fees? A. I have not. » 
 
 Q. You observe that those fees, even though they are fees to 
 be retained to your own use, would come under this very provi- 
 sion of the law which requires the clerks to return a statement 
 of the gross amount received. A. I suppose it is. 
 
 Q. But you have not filed a statement of those fees? A. I 
 never have ; the thing never occurred to me. 
 
792 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 Q. The act of 1891 refers, I think, to the fees of the Register 
 in the Prerogative office ; I will read it ; page 511 of the laws of 
 that year, " For all official services as Register of the Prerogative 
 Court he shall be entitled to charge and receive the same fees as 
 are now allowed by law to the Surrogates of the several coun- 
 ties." You also received some fees, did you not, as clerk of the 
 Prerogative Court '! A. 1 can't say about that. 
 
 Q. Do you not draw any distinction between the two offices ? 
 A. Do not draw any distinction ; never have. 
 
 Q. I see the statute mentions both the clerk of the Prerogative 
 Court and the Register of the Prerogative office, and since 1891 
 you have retained the fees, whether received as clerk or as Regis- 
 ter ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Haven't made any return to the Comptroller of either ? 
 A. Yes, sir; that is my understanding and recollection. ISTo, no 
 return. 
 
 Q. Is the amount of those fees set down in those books that 
 you produced this morning? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Beginning at 1892? A. July 1893, to December 1894. 
 
 Q. At what date did you begin to retain these fees to your own 
 use? A. From the last quarter of 1891. 
 
 Q. Beginning October 1st, 1891 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Those fees then are all entered under the head of " Regis- 
 ter " are they not, in these cash books ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, for example, the month of October, 1891? A. I 
 think it begun in September ; from September, yes, sir. The 
 month of September, 1891, was the first. The fees for that 
 month, $85.89; for October, $373.68; November, $145.44; De- 
 cember, $340.87; January 1892, $251.74; February, $814.19 
 March, $654.76; April, $50.42; May, $80.32; June, 502.90 
 July, $136.14; August, $47.66; September, $628.26; October 
 $170.78; November, $128.86; December, $439.02; January, 
 1893, $137.27; February, $235.92 ; March, $239.92; April, .?201 
 May, $252.14; June, $139.60; July, $223.23; August, $121.26 
 September, $27.09; October, $428.57; November, $327.67; De 
 cember, $209.63; January, 1894, $612.65; February, $466.80 
 March, $798.47; April, $339.63; May, $75.25; June, $384.30 
 Jcrty, $166.25; August, $51.24 ; September, §104.50; October 
 $179.66; November, $152.62; December, $121.92; January, 1895 
 $855.38; February, $335.25 ; March, $170.39 ; April, §587.18. 
 
 Q. In 1889, did you cause a list of corporations to be compiled 
 and printed, as required by the statute of that year ? ^. I did ; 
 yes, sir ; that is my recollection. 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 793 
 
 Q. And was the first edition of that book published that year ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then the year following, that is, the year 1890, a supple- 
 mental edition was published according to the law, was it not ? 
 A. Every year ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Covering such certificates as had been filed after the first 
 publication ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And so in 1891, again ? A. Yes, sir ; I believe so. 
 
 Q. In 1891 the whole thing was compiled into this new book 
 again ? A. Compiled because of a great many changes. 
 
 Q. And this publication which I show you entitled, " Corpora- 
 tions of New Jersey ; List of Certificates filed in the Department 
 of State from 1846 to 1891, inclusive, Compiled by the Secretary 
 of State; " imprint, "Trenton, K J., Naar, Day & Naar, 1892," 
 that is the compilation as perfected up to that time ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; up to that date. 
 
 Q. And since that, annually supplemental ones have been 
 printed? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In 1893 and 1894 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And these books which I show you are the books? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The statute to which I called your attentioo provided that 
 the cost of this compilation and printing should be by you de- 
 ducted from the fees which you received? A. Paid from the 
 fees; yes, sir; I didn't at first construe it to be deducted. 
 
 Q. In these returns which you have made I see no mention of 
 the printing in 1889 and 1890; how was it done then and how 
 were the vouchers paid? A. That I can't say ; my first recollec- 
 tion — done under that act — in regard to payment was, that I 
 certified the matter to the Comptroller, supposing he would pay 
 it from the fund; he held that under the act I would be required 
 to p&y it and deduct it from the taxes received from corporations, 
 and that is the way the act reads. 
 
 Q. Well, now, in the years 1889 and 1890, in your return to 
 the Comptroller, I find no mention of the coat of the printing ; 
 how was it accomplished? A. I really can't say; I don't recall 
 it; my impression is, and would have been, that it was so paid 
 every year. 
 
 Q. The first printing bill I find returned is Ifaar, Day &Naar's 
 bill of July, 1891, to printing 1,000 pamphlets, list of corpora- 
 tions, 210 pages, and 1,000 copies pamphlet for 1890; can it be 
 that this possibly referred back to 1890 and 1889, although it is 
 dated in 1891 ? A. This is the bill of 1891, printing 1,000 lists 
 of corporations ; here it refers to the year 1890. 
 
794 HENRY C. KEI.SEY. 
 
 Q. But the principal, lar^e charge is that to the original com- 
 pilation of 1889. A. No, I would say — because the date of the 
 charge is June 25th, I would say it was for the year 1891 ; that 
 is my impression ; here are two issues, June 25th, printing 1,000 
 copies list of corporations, $1,777, and July 15th, printing 1,000 
 copies pamphlets list of corporations for the year 1890. 
 
 Q. That must have been a supplemental list, small number of 
 pages ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Does that principal charge then refer to the 1890 publica- 
 tion, do you think? J.. No ; I really can't say. 
 
 Q. Tour recollection is that they were all paid for in this way 
 and the vouchers returned with your return? A. That was my 
 intention ; that is my impression. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This is the bill annexed to Mr. Kelsey's 
 return of the year 1891 as a voucher, to which I called 
 attention in passing. " Printing 1,000 pamphlets of list 
 of corporations 210 pages, $1,777.47; 1,000 of two addi- 
 tional pages for insertion, $17.50; printing 1,000 pam- 
 phlets list of corporations for the year 1890, 58 pages, 
 $526.80; total $2,321.77, receipted by Naar, Day & JSTaar, 
 July 20th, 1891. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — When was the first compilation 
 published, do you recall? A. My impression is it was 1889. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Did you prepare it during the 
 year in which the act was passed ? .4. I think it was 1889 ; Mr. 
 Corbin's recollection is, doubtless, correct. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The act was passed April 3d, 1889. The 
 first edition was printed in that year. Here is a supple- 
 mental edition of 1890. 
 
 Witness — It is in the Law's of 1889, page 160. 
 Q. In the year 1892 with your return there is appended a bill 
 of Naar, Day & Naar for $4,685.58 for printing and binding 2,000 
 copies of the corporation laws, 1846 to 1891 ; that referred to this 
 second edition which I showed you, did it not? A. I think not. 
 Q. I think that must have been it ; the imprint is 1892 and the 
 bill 1892. A. Yes, sir; that is it; that is right. 
 
 Compilation offered in evidence and marked " Ex- 
 hibit No. 291." 
 Q. It is a volume of 294 pages? A. That is the one. 
 Q. In the year 1893 with your return is a bill of Naar, Day & 
 Naar for $1,064.45 for printing 2,000 copies list of corporation 
 certificates, 68 pages ; that is this thinner book, this supplemental 
 one, is it not? A. This is the annual list; this was issued in 
 1893. 
 
HENEY C. KELSEY. 795 
 
 Oflered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 292." 
 
 Q. And with that bill of 1894 is a bill of ITaar, Day & ISTaar for 
 $951.86 for printing 860 copies of the list of corporations, 59 
 pages, together with bills for other small items, making a total 
 of $1,084.36 ? A. That is the one of 1893 ; yes, sir. 
 
 Offered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 293." 
 
 Q. These disbursements from the State's funds in your hands 
 were made, as I understand, under this act of the Legislature) 
 1889, requiring you to compile and publish this list? A. Yes? 
 sir, 
 
 Q. I notice that you also made certain other disbursements 
 from the funds in your hands, which you charged partly to the 
 Corporation account and partly to Insurance account. I show 
 you your return of the year 1889. I find charged to expense 
 under this supplement of April 3d, 1889, which is the act for the 
 compilation of this book, $950, and the vouchers here are $250 
 for services by Thomas K. Johnston. Who was Mr. Johnston? 
 A. He was the chief clerk in the office at the time when I acted 
 as Commissioner of Insurance. 
 
 Q. $500 and $200, making $700, for R. S. Stockton ; he was 
 employed in compiling the work, was he ? A. That is my 
 recollection ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. From the insurance moneys that year, there is deducted, I 
 see, $1,227, of which $1,125 is a receipt from A. H. Rickey, for 
 services in the Department of State under the Insurance act; 
 that was the Assistant Secretary of State? A. Not at that time. 
 What is the date of that ? 
 
 Q. September, 1889? A. Mr. Rickey is at present Assistant 
 Secretary of State, but not at that time, I think, although I am 
 not quite sure about that. 
 
 Q. Mr. Rickey was a clerk in your office at that time? A. 
 Yes, sir. That is stated incorrectly; Mr. Rickey was the chief 
 clerk, and Johnston was a clerk ; J. D. Hall was the then 
 Assistant Secretary of State. 
 
 Q. I show you the return of 1890. In that there is deducted 
 from the corporation moneys $700, of which $250 is to Thomas 
 K. Johnston. He was still a clerk in your office, I suppose. A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And $200 to G. B. Dunning; was he a clerk there? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And $250 to R. S. Stockton, and he was still employed 
 specially in that service, was he ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Also from the insurance moneys of that year, $1,848 ; of 
 which $1,125 was to Thomas K. Johnston; $109.50 to W. P- 
 
796 HBNEY C. KELSEY. 
 
 Well8 ; $425 to A. H. Rickey ; they were clerks there at that 
 time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you, also, the return of 1891, which shows a deduc- 
 tion from the corporation moneys of $3,333.77, with vouchers 
 attached showing $92 to Mr. Q. B. Dunning ; $200 to S. M. 
 Dickinson. He assisted in the compilation, did he not 1 A. 1 
 think Mr. Dickinson's work was in the compilation of the laws. 
 
 Q. And John W. Brooke, $720 ; he was a clerk in your office 
 and still is ? A. He is now ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Also from the insurance money there is deducted for ex- 
 penses, under the act of April 4th, 1889, $1,600, of which $1,250 
 is to Thomas K. Johnston; $300 to W. P. Wells; they were 
 clerks at the office, were they not ? A. Yes, sir ; Wells was not 
 regularly employed. 
 
 Q. Not regularly employed ? A. ITo. 
 
 Q. But specially on these services ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you the return of 1892, in which there is deducted 
 from the corporation moneys $7,260.58, and with vouchers 
 attached for $1,000 from John W. Brooke for services; $855 
 from W. P. Wella and $720 from W. H. Pea; they were clerks, 
 also ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you also, a return of 1893, in which there is de- 
 ducted from the corporation moneys $4,409.45, with vouchers at- 
 tached showing payment for services to Mary Sidney Gottschalk, 
 $150; M. A. Mitchell, $150; William H. Knowles, $240 ; G. B. 
 Dunning, $450; W. P. Wells, $625; John W. Brooke, $1,180; 
 S. M. Dickinson, $200. With the exception of Col. Dickinson 
 those were clerks in the office, were they not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Col. Dickinson gave special services? J.. Special services, 
 yes, sir; two of those were not regularly employed in the office. 
 
 Q. Which two? A. Kuowles, particularly, and Wells. 
 
 Q. The bill of Col. Dickinson appears to be for services pre- 
 paring edition of corporation acts for printing, making index 
 and superintending the printing, $200. Lastly, your return of 
 1894. There is deducted from the corporation moneys $4,234.36, 
 with vouchers attached for $600 by M. A. Mitchell, for services 
 rendered ; $750, by W. H. Pea; $500, by G. B. Dunning ; $1,200, 
 by John W. Brooke. Those were clerks in the office ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And $100 by William S. Potter for services, corporation 
 acts. He was employed in the same service? A. Yes, sir; not 
 regular clerk. 
 
 Q. Of the part of these amounts which are deducted from the 
 moneys received from corporations and from insurance, the por- 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 797 
 
 tion paid out for clerical services is as shown in these vouchers ; 
 In 1889, $2,075; in 1890, $2,359.50; in 1891, $2,562; in 1892, 
 $2,575 ; in 1893, $3,145 ; in 1894, $3,150. Take this one of 1894, 
 this supplemental pamphlet of 59 pages ; the act provides for 
 your retaining money necessary to compile that list? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And under the other act to vphich I called your attention, 
 the foreign corporation act of 1894, you retained, also, a sufficient 
 amount to carry out that act; those two acts seem to be only 
 ones up to 1894 permitting the retention of part of the State 
 moneys. Was it necessary to expend |3,150 in compiling this 
 little pamphlet and the getting in of the foreign corporations ? 
 A. The act doesn't apply to that, Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. The foreign corporation act of 1894 provides for the filing 
 of certificates of the foreign corporations here before they shall 
 do business, and charges the Secretary of State with the duty of 
 filing them and issuing a certificate to those who shall present 
 them. Now how many foreign corporations have come in since 
 that act was passed, a year ago ? A. 178. 
 
 Q. Up to October 31 of last year how many ? A. 122. 
 
 Q. Well, then, the extra services for which you can retain 
 money from the State's funds were first, the compilation of the list, 
 under the act of 1889, and second, the issuing of the 122 certificates, 
 under the act of 1894, and I suppose you also had to inform your- 
 self with regard to the rules of other States governing New Jer- 
 sey corporations? A. Yes, sir; I had to. 
 
 Q. How was $3,150 expended in those matters ? A. The act, 
 Mr. Corbin, does not refer alone to this work ; the act provides 
 that the expense incurred in carrying out the provisions of this 
 act shall be paid by the Secretary of State from the moneys col- 
 lected under this act and the supplements thereto. 
 
 Q. Which section is that? A. Section 2; it seems to apply to 
 that work. 
 
 Q. The act which you have just referred to is the supplement of 
 April 3, 1889. " It shall be the duty of the Secretary of State 
 to compile and publish in pamphlet form during the present year 
 from the records of his department, a complete list," etc, " and 
 annually thereafter to compile and publish a complete list of 
 those organized during the preceding year. The expense of 
 carrying out the provisions of this act shall be paid by the Sec- 
 retary of State from moneys collected under this act." Well, 
 that seems to be rather narrow. I see, Mr. Kelsey, your returns 
 however, explicitly say that the moneys were paid for carrying 
 
798 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 out that act of April 3, 1889, and the act of 1894. A. I think it 
 is for services under the corporation act. 
 
 Q. No, I have read it just as it is by your return ; I will show- 
 it to you. A. Th£^t is what I say; the returns. 
 
 Q. " Less expenses paid under the supplement approved April 
 3, 1889, and the act of May 15, 1894;" it limits it to those, and 
 I think, properly so? A. Well, I can only say that the clerical 
 work paid for there was not employed wholly on revision of those 
 lists, but upon the corporation work generally in the office. 
 
 Q. These vouchers which have been put in by the clerks of 
 your office of which there are some 6 or 7 here in each year, are 
 they their full salary or a portion of their salary ; for instance, 
 Miss Mitchell, $600 ; isn't that her full salary ? A. Yes, sir ; she 
 was entirely upon that work. 
 
 Q. That is, entirely upon the corporation work? A. Entirely 
 upon the corporation work. 
 
 Q, And the next, Mr. Eea, $750, is that not his full salary ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. He attends to the maps and such things, does he not? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And Mr. G. B. Dunning, $500; that is all or a portion of 
 his salary? A. Only a portion. 
 
 Q. How much is his salary? A. $1,440 now. 
 
 Q. John W. Brooke, $1,200? A. He is corporation clerk. 
 
 Q. That is his full salary ? A. At that time ; yes. 
 
 Q. And William S. Potter $100 ; I suppose services obtained 
 outside of the office? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then while your return limits the expense to the work 
 under these little supplements to which I have called your 
 attention, these clerks are engaged generally upon corporation 
 work? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And part of their time, perhaps, some of them on the other 
 work in the office? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you the return of 1893, in which $3,145 was paid for 
 services in that department; Gottschalk, §150 ; I assume that was 
 part of her pay only ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Miss Mitchell, $150; that was part of hers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. William H. Knowles, $150; this says " for full payment for 
 services rendered." Was that all he was paid? A. I think that 
 is all he did; possibly he may have done some other work in the 
 office — his services for that class of work. 
 
 Q. William H. Rea, $240 ; that was part ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Gr. B. Dunning, $450 ; that was part of his ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. W. P. Wells, $625? A. Yes, sir. 
 
HENRY C. KBL8EY. 799 
 
 Q. Mr. Wells isn't living? A. No, sir; that was the year the 
 general compilation of the corporation certificates was made, and 
 it was very expensive work. 
 
 Q. Was that his full compensation '>. A. 1 think so ; he did 
 other work in the office. 
 
 Q. And John W. Brooke, $1,180; was that his full compensa- 
 tion that year? A. I think so. 
 
 Q. And $200 to S. M. Dickinson, special work in the same 
 line; he was specially employed ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I see the law which I read this morning provides that these 
 clerks shall be paid monthly ; are they so paid ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How do you pay them, by check? A. Sometimes, and 
 sometimes in money; pay altogether in money now. 
 
 Q. These figures put together, with the allowance for clerical 
 services, are as follows — your clerical allowance being $4,000 per 
 year, and, by the way, you draw that entire allowance, do you 
 not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In 1889 the allowance and the extra retention of which I 
 have spoken, $6,075 ; in 1890, $6,359.50; in 1891, $6,562; 1892, 
 $6,575 ; in 1893, $7,145, and in 1894, $7,150. Now, those are the 
 total amounts which you have received either by this deduction 
 from State funds for clerical services or by the $4,000 allowance 
 for clerical services in your office. Is it not true that the entire 
 clerical services in your office amounts to a considerable less sum 
 than those amounts per year ? A. It amounts to — 
 
 Q. Take the year 1894? A. $7,560, besides extra work done 
 outside. 
 
 Q. What year is that ? A. 1894. 
 
 Q. Have you the items of that ? A. That is the monthly pay- 
 roll as it has been running for some time; I am not positive 
 whether it run entirely through 1894 or not, but that is the 
 amount now. 
 
 Q. I noticed in the check book which you opened this morning 
 a number of payments'to these clerks, apparently monthly ; will 
 they not show th-e payments made in 1894? A. April 30 the 
 pay-roll was $680. 
 
 Q. Will this check book show them from month to month ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you any pay-roll which shows the amount? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. This check book is the only record, is it not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, take, if you please, the year ending September 30, 
 1894, which was the year for which your last return was made; 
 
800 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 can we see there by the check book what the pay-roll amounted 
 to that year ? A. $470 in November. 
 
 Q. Go back to September, please ; take September, 1894, and 
 go from that back? ^.$465. 
 
 Q. Will you kindly let me see it ; I would like to get familiar 
 with the way it is entered. A. September doesn't seem to be 
 here; August 31, pay-roll, $465; September 29, same amount. 
 
 Q. Is it always paid in that way, with a check to the order of 
 pay-roll? A. It is in these times, and has been for some time 
 past. 
 
 Q. I saw this morning in going over it there seemed to be 
 checks here — there, for instance, is Mr. Eea ? A. Formerly we 
 paid checks direct ; I don't know what that was for. 
 
 Q. " Pay-roll," what is that for ? A. That was extra compen- 
 sation to Eea. 
 
 Q. Do all the checks for pay-rolls refer to pay-rolls at the State 
 House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. No other pay-rolls in it? A. Eo, sir. 
 
 Q. Ib there any record of how the amount of $465 is made 
 up ? A. No record, no. 
 
 Q. It is the aggregate amount of the salaries paid ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. In September it was how much ? A. $465. 
 
 (). And in August? ^.$495. 
 
 Q. And July ? A. $465. 
 
 Q. I see the check is drawn to the order of "Bank; " that is 
 cash, I suppose ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. July 30th, $465, that is the same thing? A. Yes, sir; 
 June the same; May the same; April the same; March, $510. 
 
 Q. Are there no individual checks there; it is just a general 
 check, is it? A. The same thing; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. February 1 A. 1 don't see any check unless the check for 
 
 Q. That is a check to "self" is it not? A. Yes; there isn't 
 anything at all in February ; I don't think that is it. 
 
 Q. It probably was as high as the other; you think ? A. Yes, 
 I presume so, but I don't know why it isn't here. 
 
 Q. Is January there ? A. January there were separate checks. 
 
 Q. To each employe ? A. Individual checks ; yes, sir ; begin- 
 ning with check 6,051, John W. Brooke, $100; G-. B. Dunning, 
 $100; Gottschalk, $50; Miss Mitchell, $50 ; W. H. Rea, 
 P. J. Anderson, $50. 
 
 Q. Was he a regular employe ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
HENRY C. KEL8EY. 801 
 
 Q. And what is this one, E. T. Malloy, $40? A. Yes, sir; 
 $460. 
 
 Q. Have you the previous month, December, there 1 A. 1 have 
 not. 
 
 Q. Neither individual nor total ? A. ISo. 
 
 Q. 1 suppose the employes were about the same? A. I think 
 
 80. 
 
 Q. Have you November ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is it for that month ; is it in separate amounts ? 
 A. Separate checks; yes, sir; Malloy, $40; Dunning, $100 
 Brooke, $100; Anderson, $50; Kea, $60; Gottachalk, $50 
 Mitchell, $50 — $450; $200 to Dickinson under corporation act 
 on November 1st, extra payment to Dunning on account ot the 
 corporation act. 
 
 Q. October, please ? A. $200 to Dunning. 
 Q. Was that something outside of the regular salary ? A. Yes, 
 sir; that don't seem to be there at all. October, I have here 
 (Sussex Bank book) Mallow, $40 ; Dunning, $100; Brooke, $100 ; 
 Anderson, $50; Rea, $60 ; Mitchell, $50; Gottschalk, $50— $450. 
 Then I also have here the December, 1893, account which was 
 missing from the other book: Dunning, $100; Brooke, $100; 
 Rea, $60; Gottschalk, $50 ; Mitchell, $50 ; Anderson, $50 ; Mal- 
 loy, $40. 
 
 Q. Those seem to total up $5,795 ; is that all of them that you 
 have there ? A. That is all the regular pay ; there were some 
 flpecial items I had there. 
 
 Q. Those I have in, I think. A. No, some vouchers there of 
 Knowles you haven't referred to. 
 
 Q. You observe the way I have got at it ; I have simply put 
 the amount which was retained by you from the State money 
 with the $4,000, making up $7,150. Now you have given me 
 the payments here, and in addition to what you have given me, 
 jou say Knowles' payment should be in? A. 1 don't see that; 
 does it appear that year ? 
 
 Q. That is the point exactly; I will see if it appears that year — 
 there should be $100 added to that for Potter; that makes $5,895 ; 
 there seems to be a discrepancy of $1,255 ; that is, the amount 
 that you have received for clerk hire, is $7,150, and the amount 
 apparently paid is $5,895. Oughtn't these figures to balance ? 
 A. I think so, that is the year ending — 
 
 Q. Ending last September 30th — well, we might take the year 
 ending September 30th, the year before, that would be beginning 
 September, 1893 ; is the check book there ; is Mr. Rickey any 
 
 51 SH 
 
802 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 more familiar with it; could he assist us? A. I don't know 
 that he could. 
 
 Q. Will you kindly give us October, 1892 ? A. LaBarre, $90; 
 Brooke, $80; Wells, $65; Rea, $60; Gottschalk, $45; Mitchell, 
 $40— $380. 
 
 Q. November ? A. LaBarre, $90 ; Brooke, $80 ; Wells, $67.50 ; 
 Rea, $60 ; Gottschalk, $45 ; Mitchell, $40--$382.50. 
 
 Q. December? A. LaBarre, $90; Brooke, $120; Rea, $60 ; 
 Wells, $162; Gottschalk, $45; Mitchell, $40; Kaowles, $60— 
 $580. 
 
 Q. January, 1893? A. LaBarre, $90; Brooke, $90; Wells, 
 $65; Rea, $60; Gottschalk, $50 ; Mitchell, $40; Knowles, $90— 
 $485. 
 
 Q. February? A. Brooke, $110; Wells, $65; LaBarre, $90; 
 Rea, $60; Dunning, $90; Gottschalk, $50 ; Mitchell, $40— $505. 
 
 Q. March, 1893? A. LaBarre, $90 ; Rea, $60 ; Brooke, §100; 
 Gottschalk, $50; Mitchell, $40; Dunning, $90— $430. 
 
 Q. April? A. LaBarre, $90; Dunning, $90; Brooke, $100; 
 Rea, $60; Gottschalk, $50 ; Mitchell, $40— $430. 
 
 Q. May? A. LaBarre, $90; Dunning, $90; Brooke, $100; 
 Rea, $60; Gottschalk, $50 ; Mitchell, $40— $430. 
 
 Q. June? A. LaBarre, $53.33; Brooke, $100; Rea, 
 Dunning, $90; Gottschalk, $50; Mitchell, $40; Malloy, 
 $483.33. 
 
 Q. July? A. Wells, $100; Malloy, $40; Dunning, $100 r 
 Brooke, $100; Anderson, $50; Rea, $60; Mitchell, $60; Gott- 
 schalk, $100—1600. 
 
 Q.August? A. Mitchell, $50; Dunning, $100; Brooke, 
 $100; Anderson, $50 ; Rea, $60— $360. 
 
 Q. September? A. Malloy, §40; Brooke, $100; Anderson, 
 $50 ; Roa, $60 ; Gottschalk, $50 ; Mitchell, $50 ; Dunning, $100 
 —$450. $5,465.83. 
 
 Q. Will you kindly go back one year more, October, 1891 ? 
 A. LaBarre, $80; Brooke, $80; Mitchell, $35; Phillips, §55 ; 
 Mitchell, $80.40 ; Wells, $50— $380.40. 
 
 Q. November? A. Brooke, $80; LaBarre, $80; Mitchell, 
 $35 ; Phillips, $55 ; Wells, $62.50 ; Rea, $56— $368.50. 
 
 Q. December? A. LaBarre, $80; Brooke, $80; Wells, 
 
 2.50; Phillips, $55; Mitchell, $35; Rea, $56— $368.50, 
 
 Q. January, 1892? A. Brooke, $40; Brooke, $80 ; LaBarre, 
 ; Rea, $56; Wells, $62.50; Phillips, $55; Mitchell, $40— 
 $413.50. 
 
 Q. February? A. LaBarre, $80; Brooke, $80; Wells, $62.50; 
 Rea, $56 ; Mitchell, $40 ; Dillon, $15- $363.50. 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 803 
 
 Q. March? A. Dillon, $50; Brooke, $80; LaBarre, $80; 
 Gott8chalk, $45; Mitchell, $40; Wells, $65; Rea, $60— $420. 
 
 Q. April? A. Brooke, $80; Wells, $65; Eea, $60; Gott- 
 Bchalk, $45 ; Mitchell, $40 ; LaBarre, $90— $380. 
 
 Q. May? A. LaBarre, $90; Brooke, $80; Wells, $65; Rea, 
 $60 ; Gottschalk, $45 ; Mitchell, |40— $380. 
 
 Q. June ? A. LaBarre, $90 ; Brooke, $80 ; Wells, $65 ; Wells, 
 $100 ; Rea, $60 ; Mitchell, $40 ; Gottschalk, $45~$480. 
 
 Q. July? A. Brooke,$80;' Wells, $65; Rea, $60; Gottschalk, 
 $45; $40 (discovered later)— $290. 
 
 Q. August? A. Brooke, $80; Wells, $65; Rea, $45; Gott- 
 schalk, $45 ; Mitchell, $40— $290. 
 
 Q. September? A. La Barre, $90; Brooke, .$80; Wells, $65 ; 
 Rea, $60; Gottschalk, $45 ; Mitchell, $40— $380— $4,514.40. 
 
 Q. Go back to the month of October, 1890, and commence. 
 A. October, 1891— Johnston, $125; Dunning, $80; Phillips, 
 $50; Mitchell, $30— $285. 
 
 Q. November? A. The payments for November are not en- 
 tered in this check-book ; presumably they are in the Sussex 
 book, and I haven't that book hert. 
 
 Q. Presumably they are the same as the payments in October. 
 
 Q. December? A. Johnston, $125 ; Dunning, $92 ; Hall, $80; 
 Phillips, $50 ; Mitchell, $30— $877. 
 
 Q. January, 1891? A. Johnston, $12b ; Brooke, $80; Phil- 
 lips, $55; Mitchell, $35; Wells, $70— $365. 
 
 Q. February ? A. Johnston, $125 ; Brooke, $80 ; Phillips, $55 ; 
 Mitchell, $35 ; Wells, $70— $365 (added after) $80-$250— $695. 
 
 Q. March? A. Johnston, $625; Wells, $160; Brooke, $80; 
 Phillips, $55; Mitchell, $35— $955 (added later) $300. 
 
 Q. April? A. Brooke, $80; Mitchell, $35; Phillips, $55; 
 La Barre, $45.33 ; Wells, $80; Hall, $80. This is not an accurate 
 way to take these accounts, because payments were made in the 
 month at random; that of Hall I just ran counter of for the 
 month of April ; I employed him a while — $375.33; John Yard, 
 $300, paid on the 10th of March; then again on the 11th of 
 March, J. D. Hall, $80, in February. 
 
 Q. In March you paid Mr. Yard something that you have not 
 included? A. On the 10th of March, Yard, in full, $300; Feb- 
 ruary 17th, I paid Yard $250. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Can you readily turn to the 
 check of $300 to Mr. Yard? A. Yes, sir; 10th of March, $300. 
 
 Q. Refer to check of March 28, 1891, for $625, to Thomas K. 
 Johnston, tor services in insurance department; was that for 
 
804 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 extra compensation in that department or for part of a year's 
 salary? A. I can't tell. 
 
 Q. I see the voucher turned in is for $1,250; for the year's sal- 
 ary, I suppose, is it not 1 A. 1 don't know. 
 
 Q. The voucher turned in is of the same date, March 28, 1891 ? 
 A. I can't say about that; I don't remember what his salary 
 was, but on the 28th of March I paid him $625. 
 
 Q. This item on the same date is for just double that amount? 
 A. I don't understand it; he didn't give me a receipt for one 
 sum and take pay for another. 
 
 Q. Do you remember what his annual salary was? A. I do 
 not; it is in full for services in the insurance bureau, April 1, 
 1891 ; I think that was the date it was transferred to the new 
 office ; my impression is, the insurance bureau — 
 
 Q. Well, the receipt is for just double the amount received; 
 " March 28, 1891, $1,250 in full payment, Department of State, 
 Insurance Bureau, from October 1, 1890, to April 31, 1891. 
 Thomas K. Johnston." 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You paid him $125 for the five 
 months previous. A. I knew I had him there a number of 
 times. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That makes the $1,250; that 
 accounts for that. 
 
 Q. May, 1891? A. LaBarre, $80; Brooke, $80; Phillips, 
 $55 ; Mitchell, $35 ; Hall, $80 ; LaBarre, $45— $375. 
 
 Q. June? A. Phillips, $55; LaBarre, $80; Mitchell, $35; 
 Brooke, $80— $250. 
 
 Q. July? A. LaBarre, $80; Brooke, $80; Phillips, $55; 
 Mitchell, $35— $250. 
 
 Q. August? A. LaBarre, $80; Brooke, |80; Mitchell, $35; 
 Phillips, $55— $250. 
 
 Q. September? A. Dickinson, §200 ; LaBarre, $80; Brooke, 
 $80 ; Mitchell, $35 ; Phillips, $55— $450— $5,212.33. 
 
 Q. I see you have come across two checks to Major Yard; 
 were those for services in connection with the corporations or 
 insurance? A. General services in the office. 
 
 Q. Not connected with one of those two departments? A. 
 He was particularly at work on the banking work. 
 
 Q. But not specially assigned to either one of those two de- 
 partments ? A. To do anything that came along ; his particular 
 work was in connection with the banks and savings banks, but he 
 had no special assignment. 
 
 Q. October, 1889 ? I haven't those vouchers in this book ; the 
 payments from here appear to have been drawn upon another 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 805 
 
 bank, which is not here ; October 16th, 1889, General Stockton, 
 $500; the payments for Novecaber are not in this book; this 
 book begins with November 30th. 
 
 Q. Have you December in this book? A. IsTo. 
 
 Q. January, 1890? A. January I have; Johnston, |125; 
 Mitchell, |20 ; Phillips, $33.33 ; Dunning, $44— $222.38. 
 
 Q. February ? A. Mitchell, $25 ; Phillips, $46.66 ; Dunning, 
 $96; Johnston, $125; Wells, $34.50 ; Hall, $80— $407.16. 
 
 Q.March? 4. Dunning, $104; Wells, $65; Phillips, $45 ; 
 Mitchell, $25; Johnston, $125; Hall, $80— $444. 
 
 Q. April? A. Dunning, $104; Phillips, $45 ; Mitchell, $25; 
 Johnston, $125 ; Hall, $80— $379. 
 
 C. May? ^. Johnston, $125; Dunning, $80; Phillips, $50 ; 
 Mitchell, $30 ; Hall, $S0— $365. 
 
 Q. June? A. Dunning, $80 — $80; now, there again it shows 
 how utterly unreliable it is to take this account this way, and I 
 think, Senator, I ought not to be submitted to this sort of ex- 
 amination ; I see from a check I have given here just about about 
 that time — one was to Dunning on the 23d of June, was a check 
 for $80, June salary ; nothing else appears in this book until the 
 July salaries, and the stubs are in Mr. Rickey's handwriting, and 
 my recollection is, I went away about that time ; I was gone 
 several weeks, where the June checks are presumably in the 
 Sussex book, and already several months in the last year you 
 know were, and the checks were not always drawn; from tte 
 Sussex book I have here I have read several payments for several 
 months; now, all I have of June, 1890, is this payment to Don- 
 ning of $80 ; none of the others appear here. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Were those payments probably 
 made by Mr. Rickey on the Sussex Bank, by checks on the 
 Sussex Bank? A. This stub is in his handwriting, and the foot- 
 ing is in the handwriting of Johnston ; it may have been ; it may 
 not; I have nothing to say about that; the practice has been 
 when I am going away for a time, to fill up checks and sign 
 them ; that, I presume, was the case with these checks dated J une 
 30th, July 3lBt; two checks dated the latter part of June — then 
 there are a number of checks, all the stubs in Mr. Rickey's hand- 
 writing, for July and August. I went to Europe that year and 
 left the checks, I presume, signed in this book. That has been 
 my practice over and over again. July and August the checks 
 are here, and then after this I find July 2d paid Dunning $100 and 
 Col. Yard $200, then there is nothing in my hand until the 8th 
 of September. ~Eo record! can give you from this book is reliable, 
 and I submit, Mr. Chairman, that the record taken up in this way 
 
806 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 ought not to be done. You ask me to bring stubs of my check 
 books; Ibring themof the Mechanics'Bank, and the current of the 
 Sussex Bank; and then you ask for matters utterly unexpected, 
 and you ask me to go over this book and give you payments on 
 the salary account. Here, as I have just stated, are two pay- 
 ments out of the usual order, on account; one is Dunning, $100, 
 and one to Yard of $200 ; the next check, preceding that to Dun- 
 ning, was July 2; the next preceding that was June 23, to Dun- 
 ning, and then there are checks filled in for July and August, 
 stubs written by Mr. Rickey, and I have no doubt whatever that 
 he filled up the checks and I signed them before I went away, in 
 July ; that I have done before and done since ; that appears to 
 have been the case here. ISTow, then, you ask me — and that is 
 the way the payments to Glen. Stockton and Gen. Yard, to Mr. 
 Dunning and Mr. Brooke, and others, a payment somewhere 
 about $300 or $400, which we have not found. I submit, Mr. 
 Chairman, it isn't a fair or proper way to get at this informa- 
 tion. 
 
 Q. We were not aware, until you brought your books here, 
 how you kept them at all ; I wasn't aware that this was in your 
 check book; I supposed you had a pay-roll; something that 
 would show this all at a glance; it has only developed here on 
 the stand. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Who drew the checks for the 
 pay-roll during July and August, while you were in Europe? 
 A. Checks were drawn before I started, for the pay-roll, and 
 signed by me. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Wouldn't the stubs of those 
 checks appear in your book? A. They are here, but you are 
 inquiring now about the June checks; the only check I have of 
 the June pay-roll is one to Dunning. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — And the others are probably on 
 the Sussex Bank? A. I presume they are drawn on the Sussex 
 Bank. 
 
 Q. li that bank book not here? A. It is not here. 
 
 Q. Is it in the office, so that we can get it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Can you send and get it, so that we can go right on and end 
 this in a few minutes? A. Do you propose to take this haphazard 
 way to get at this information ? 
 
 Q. Do you know of any more direct or any better way? A. 
 Yes, sir; it would be decidedly better to allow me to go over 
 these books and make a schedule of these payments here, and run 
 right over and turn to the end of the month, and I am in the 
 habit of making the payments from the beginning of the succeed- 
 
HENRY C. KEL8EY. 807 
 
 ing month, sometimes one case and sometimes the other; I run 
 right over, and have repeatedly, and the chairman has been 
 obliged to include some in months that have been passed. 
 
 Q. We have now completed the four years, 1891, 1892, 1893 
 and 1894; there were only two other years I wanted to examine, 
 that is 1889 and 1890, and for those, it seems, the books are not 
 here ; of course it would be well to verify these figures by such 
 a statement as you suggest ; I think if we had the other check 
 book, probably in fifteen or twenty minutes we could finish it, 
 and then it could be verified by your clerk or somebody. A. 
 Then you think that is a fair method of examination, to go over 
 a matter in this haphazard way and find a discrepancy, and let it 
 go to the public in that way and upon this record, and then let 
 me come in — 
 
 Q. Not at all ; I had no idea how you had your record kept. 
 I have asked these questions of you ; not of anybody else, and 
 with your own books in your hands. A. I understand, but if I 
 should look over every page here and every leal here it would 
 occupy a very great deal of time ; that I haven't had an oppor- 
 tunity to do, and as the Chairman knows, he has taken down 
 three or four or five items here which he has discovered after I 
 gave him the month. 
 
 Q. I quite understand that errors are possible, of course, in 
 going over it, but I see no other possible way to get at it than to 
 go over this record, if this is, as you say, the only record, we 
 have got to do it some time, but of course if we had a schedule 
 made up, it would be quicker ; I presumed we would find it all 
 recorded somewhere, but it seems it is not. 
 
 Senator Daly — Can't Mr. Kelsey have an opportunity 
 to do that ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Undoubtedly this can all be verified. 
 Witness — I can give you these checks for July and 
 August as they stand recorded here, but for June, you 
 see, I can only refer you to the check of Mr. Dunning, 
 drawn on the 23d of June. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That is a single check of $80? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the other book doubtless contains more, I suppose ? 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Here is the month of October 
 with the exception of a single payment to Gen. Stockton of $500, 
 and the months of November and December. A. It has been 
 my practice more particularly in those early days to draw checks 
 part of the time on the Sussex bank ; I always kept an account, 
 and do now. 
 
HENRY C. KBLSEY. 
 
 Q. We are through with the period we wanted to examine 
 except about 18 months — about half of 1890 and 1889 ; I should 
 think we could finish in a very short time, and if Mr. Rickey 
 would take them from your hand and go over them behind you^ 
 it would be a check upon it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I understood Mr. Kelsey to say that 
 possibly the checks might have been drawn on th& 
 Sussex bank. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Sussex book is in his office. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Then it wouldn't take very long, it 
 would only take a very few minutes to finish this 
 matter. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — He claims it is unsatisfactory,, 
 because there are payments that occur between the 
 beginning and the end of the month which he is apt to 
 overlook in this hurried examination. 
 
 Witness — I have already discovered checks out of the 
 regular order here, for which there are vouchers there,, 
 in giving this list of checks to the Chairman and the 
 stenographer, and then been obliged in two or three 
 cases to turn back and enter the checks, which I find 
 paid in the middle of the month ; to General Stockton, 
 in one case, and to others ; there are difierent cases ; 
 now, it isn't the way to take this account. 
 Q. We want an accurate statement of it, of course. 
 
 Senator Daly — This covers some period of time, and 
 as he made these other mistakes, or omitted them, he 
 might pass them again ; he had better have the oppor- 
 tunity by all means. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Why not let this go to our next 
 meeting ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — There is no disposition to take 
 any unfair advantage of you ; I can very readily see 
 how in your hurried examination you might run over 
 checks that ought to be credited on this account. 
 
 Senator Daly — The Secretary of State had no knowl- 
 edge to what extent tbe investigation was going nor 
 what shape it was going to assume, and this hasty ex- 
 amination isn't at all satisfactory, but as I understand 
 him, he desires an opportunity to make a statement. 
 
 Witness — I want to examine these books deliberately ;; 
 I am perfectly willing, of course; the inquiry may or 
 may not be legitimate, but certainly it isn't a proper way 
 to make it. 
 
HENKY C. KBLSEY. 809 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Sufficient opportunity, of course, should 
 be given ; there is no doubt about that, but the method 
 of examination is forced upon us by the method of keep- 
 ing the books as we find them, in this way ; I didn't 
 anticipate what was the habit in respect to that. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Shouldn't all these checks have 
 been paid by the Comptroller and Treasurer in the 
 usual way ? Why should one department be paid with 
 private checks while other departments are paid with 
 the check of the Treasurer of the State ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It grows out of this different statute to 
 which attention was called this morning; whatever the 
 Committee think is a proper order, of course, will be 
 done. 
 
 Witness — Here is a check I find now, October 30, 1891, 
 utterly out of all connection with any other checks, in 
 the Sussex bank book, given to Wells in full for 
 October, $50, which you haven't got at all; it hasn't any 
 connection whatever; it is only rarely that I give checks 
 on this bank ; it hasn't any connection with any other 
 salary services whatever. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think Mr. Kelsey'a suggestion that he 
 be given time to make up a statement is very necessary 
 to make such verification, whatever the course of the 
 Committee is, and if he would do that giving the num- 
 ber and date of the check, the person to whom drawn, 
 then some one on behalf of the Committee can verify it. 
 This is mere clerical work that we are doing now ; then 
 we have got it in shape, that is certain. It is quite pos- 
 sible that in going over these in this way here in the 
 midst of some unavoidable confusion, mistakes should 
 be made. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — This method of examination is 
 forced upon you by the method of keeping the accounts. 
 
 Witness — It is more than possible — there is evidence 
 that is submitted this minute — you ask me to go over 
 these check books, these stubs, and veriiy my salary ac- 
 count ; my salary account is ordinarily paid as other 
 people's salary accounts, at the end of the month or 
 week, and as you know yourself, three items of pretty 
 large amounts were overlooked and passed by and alter- 
 wards discovered and you were obliged to turn back 
 several months and add them up out of the regular 
 order ; here is a check paid to Walter Wells on the 
 
810 HENEY C. KBLSEY. 
 
 Sussex bank without any sort of connection ; now I ask 
 that I have an opportunity to make up a Bchedule. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — You possibly misunderstood 
 Mr. Corbin ; his suggestion was right in the line of your 
 request. 
 
 Witness — He said it might be possible ; it is more 
 than possible ; it is a fact, demonstrated right here. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Mr. Corbin suggests that you do 
 this, which will facilitate the examination, and if you 
 will examine your check book and vouchers and make 
 up a schedule from which will appear the names of the 
 payee, the date of the check and the amount thereof, to- 
 gether with the number of the check, then it may be 
 readily verified by some one on behalf of the Committee, 
 showing the total amount of the payments made by you 
 during those years on account of salary, and Mr. Corbin 
 says that your request is a reasonable one and he is per- 
 fectly willing that that should be done ; that is the sen- 
 timent of the Committee, too. 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — "When can that be furnished? A. 
 Indicate what years you desire. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— 1889 to 1894, inclusive. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — How soon could that be done? 
 A. Shortly. 
 
 Q, (By Senator Ketcham) — Within a few days? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. If I could have it by next Tuesday — could it be done by 
 Tuesday morning? A. Yes, sir ; I think so. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Then, without suggesting to 
 you the proper course, you might suspend this line of 
 examination or the Committee might adjourn. Have 
 you something else you would like to take up? 
 
 Senator Daly — You have suggested that a member of 
 the Committee act in conjunction with Mr. Kelsey. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If the Senator will allow me — the work 
 to be done is purely clerical accountant's work, and any 
 one person can do it, and any one can easily take the 
 book and refer to it and verify it. 
 
 Witness — I will make up the schedule '; there is no 
 diflSculty in it. 
 
 Adjourned till Friday, May 10th, 1895, at 10 A. M. 
 
HENRY C. KELSET. 811 
 
 Trenton, May 14th, 1895—10 A. M. 
 Proceedings resumed. 
 
 Henry C. Kelsby, re-called. 
 
 Examined by Senator Skirm. 
 
 Q. Mr. Kelsey, in relreehing my mind from the testimony 
 taken last Friday a week upon your construction of the law, I 
 read you the two questions so as to ask you another one : 
 
 " (J. And do you say that you were in doubt about the law 
 requiring you to make returns ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 " Chairman Voorhees — What is the exact language ? 
 
 "A. I hold that a strict construction of those three acts, take 
 them together,would not require me to make up the return at all. 
 
 "§. (By Senator Skirm) — Then, why should there be any re- 
 turn made, if the law don't require it, even once a year, if, then, 
 there was no obligation to make a return ? " 
 
 Q. My question now is, What was your construction of the law 
 which permitted you to make your return yearly instead of 
 quarterly — because I presume that while on page 12, in which 
 the law is given that the return should be made quarterly, and 
 your construction of the law was that it didn't require you to 
 make any return quarterly, but yearly — now, what was your con- 
 struction cf the law, so as to make that return ? A. In answer 
 to that question. Senator, I came upon the stand upon the first 
 day without any notice whatever as to the line of inquiry to 
 which I was to be submitted. There are a great many laws 
 relative to the operations of the office of the Secretary of State; 
 I presume there is no office in the State that has so many statutes 
 concerning it and its operations as that office. There were four 
 points taken up by counsel at the last meeting, and as I just 
 stated, I had not the slightest notice as to what the line of in- 
 quiry was to be — what issue I was to be asked to meet — and 
 therefore it was rather difficult to state off-hand just exactly 
 my position as to the various statutes, because from the day I 
 assumed the duties of the office, on the first of July, 1870, there 
 had never been but one material question raised in regard to 
 my accounting. My accountings were public records to the 
 Comptroller, published in his reports and in the reports of the 
 Treasurer and submitted to the Legislature. Considering the 
 point you have submitted in connection with other questions 
 raised at the last meeting, I have summarized my position in a 
 brief statement, which I would like the privilege of submitting. 
 Chairman Voorhees — That will be accorded you. 
 
812 HENKY C. KELSEY. 
 
 Witness — And then also in connection with that mat- 
 ter I will make a statement of the action I have taken 
 as the result of suggestions by the Committee, and other 
 matters which is ot the utmost importance to the people 
 and to the Legislature as well as the Committee, and 
 with your permission, Mr. Chairman, and the permis- 
 sion of the Committee, I would like to make that state- 
 ment in this formal manner, and the answer will cover 
 the question you have asked. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Your request will be granted. 
 "Witness read the following statement : 
 
 HENRY C. KBLSEY's WRITTEN STATEMENT. 
 
 Mr. Chairman : 
 
 The requirement that the Secretary of State shall 
 make a quarterly report of the receipts of his office is 
 found in the act of March 10th, 1879, which is entitled, 
 " A supplement to the act entitled ' An act fixing the 
 compensation of certain public officers of the State,' " ap- 
 proved March 10th, 1876. 
 
 This act, under the one title, contained two distinct 
 provisions : 
 
 The one changing the compensation of the Secretary 
 of State, the Clerk in Chancery and the Clerk of the 
 Supreme Court. 
 
 The other requiring the Secretary of State to make 
 quarterly reports. 
 
 Whether or not the two objects under one title made 
 the act unconstitutional was not raised at the time be- 
 cause of inherent defects in the law itself, which led the 
 Legislature to quickly supplant it with another. 
 
 This act of March 10th provided that the Secretary 
 of State should receive a salary and allowance in lieu of 
 all fees, and that " all fees now payable " to him should 
 be collected by him, reported quarterly to the Comp- 
 troller and paid over to the State Treasurer. 
 
 Another section of this act declared that it should 
 take effect immediately, saving and excepting that so 
 far as the same increases or reduces the percentage or 
 allowance of any public officer now in office, during the 
 term for which such officer was elected or appointed, it 
 shall take effect only upon and immediately after the 
 end of said terra. 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 813 
 
 At the date of the passage of this act the Secretary 
 of State was in the occupancy of a term not to expire 
 until April 6th, 1881 , and so far as the act increased or 
 reduced his percentage or allowance, and only so far, its 
 effect was postponed until that date. 
 
 The provision requiring the Secretary of State to 
 report to the Comptroller, and pay to the Treasurer, 
 " all fees now payable by law," was the only feature of 
 the law that did not relate to an increase or reduction 
 of the compensation of the officers mentioned, and was, 
 therefore, under the terms of the act, to take efiect im- 
 mediately. 
 
 Four days after this act was approved, on March 14th, 
 another law was passed and approved, entitled "An act 
 concerning official fees and rendering an account 
 thereof." 
 
 This act was evidently framed to correct the incon- 
 sistencies of the act of March 10th, in relation to the 
 quarterly report, and provided that the Secretary of 
 State " ehall keep a true record of all the fees and com- 
 pensation received or taken by him for his own use as 
 Secretary of State," " or in any other ofiBcial capacity," 
 and shall make a statement, account and report, under 
 oath, to the Comptroller of this State, " on the first day 
 of July next, and quarterly thereafter." 
 
 The second section of this act provides " that all acts 
 or parts of acts inconsistent herewith are hereby re- 
 pealed, and that this shall be a public act, and take 
 effect immediately." 
 
 If the provision of March 10th relative to reports was 
 valid and in force there then two provisions relative to 
 reports by the Secretary of State in existence on March 
 14th, 1879: 
 
 1. That of March 10th, which required him to report 
 quarterly as to " all fees now payable by law to said 
 Secretary of State," and to pay the same over to the 
 Treasurer. 
 
 2. That of March 14th, which required him to report 
 on the " first day of July next and quarterly thereafter," 
 all fees and compensation received by him in any official 
 capacity for his own use during the preceding period. 
 
 Both of these provisions related to the fees received 
 by the Secretary of State between March 14th and the 
 close of his term in April, 1881. 
 
814 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 The provision of the act of March 10th being incon- 
 sistent with that of the act of March 14th, was repealed 
 by it. 
 
 The act of March 14th continued in force, and was 
 acted under by the Secretary of State until it expired by 
 limitation in 1881, when he ceased to receive fees for his 
 own use. 
 
 The opening of the new term in 1881 found no law 
 in existence requiring the Secretary of State to make 
 any report to the Comptroller, or payment to the 
 Treasurer, of moneys received for the State save the act 
 of 1870 (Laws of 1870, p. 71), which provides that the 
 fiscal and business year of each department of the State, 
 shall be considered as beginning on the first day of ISTo- 
 vember, and ending on the thirty-first day of October 
 of each year. 
 
 Under that law, from 1870 to the present time the 
 Secretary of State has at the close of each fiscal year 
 paid over to the State Treasurer the full amount of all 
 money received by him for the use of the State ; just 
 as his honored predecessors, Messrs. Cangar, Johnson 
 and Allison did from 1856 to 1870, as will be seen by a 
 reference to the Treasurer's reports for those years, and 
 to the reports of the Comptroller from the date the 
 office was established. These reports were to the Leg- 
 islature ; every member, every oflicial and every citizen 
 had access to them. The date of the return of the Sec- 
 retary of State, and of the payments, were distinctly 
 stated. If there was evidence of error or dereliction, it 
 was for the Legislature to take notice of it and apply 
 the remedy ; but during the entire period no word or 
 question of doubt was ever uttered. 
 
 The act of March 10th, 1879, provided that " the Sec- 
 retary of State shall receive a salary of six thousand 
 dollars per annum, together with an allowance of four 
 thousand dollars per annum," which said salary shall be 
 a full compensation for all services rendered by the said 
 the Secretary of State, as Secretary of State, &c., or in 
 any other official capacity whatever, and for all clerk 
 hire save and except that the Assistant Secretary 
 of State shall continue to receive the salary now pro- 
 vided by law for his services. The words here used 
 make the salary and allowance a salary with which the 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 815 
 
 Secretary of State was to compeusate himself and the 
 necessary clerks. 
 
 On February 16th, 1881, the Legislature passed a 
 supplement to this act of March 10th, 1879, which reit- 
 erated the provision of that act that the salary of six 
 thousand dollars should be in lieu of all lees or emolu- 
 ments for any act doue or service rendered in any offi- 
 cial capacity ; and that, provided that for the " allow- 
 ance of four thousand dollars," which that act provided 
 should be paid to and received by the Secretary of State, 
 " the said Secretary of State shall at all times employ 
 and keep in his office a sufficient number of competent 
 clerical assistants for the efficient and prompt perform- 
 ance of all the business and duties belonging and apper- 
 taining to his said office, or required of him in any of 
 his official capacity, who shall be paid monthly." 
 
 This was a clear and positive grant to the Secretary 
 of State of ten thousand dollars per annum, tor which 
 he was required to do and to have done the work of his 
 office. 
 
 This act made it the duty of the Secretary of State to 
 have " all the business and duties appertaining to his 
 said office or required of him in any of his official ca- 
 pacity," done efficiently and promptly. So long as that 
 was done by him, the number or pay of the clerks did 
 not concern the State. By the act of March 10th, 1879, 
 the salary of |6,000 and the allowance of |4,000 are 
 declared to be a salary to him, and a full compensation 
 to him for all work which he may do himself or hire 
 clerks to do. If it had cost him more than four thous- 
 and dollars for clerk hire to do the work efficiently and 
 promptly, he would have been obliged to pay it out of 
 the six thousand set aside for his own compensation ; if 
 it cost less he was clearly entitled to add it to the $6,000. 
 
 I am indebted to Ex-Comptrolier Anderson for recall- 
 ing the fact that this interpretation of the act of 1881 
 was held by him, while Comptroller, after full consid- 
 eration of the subject, when I made my first report to 
 him under the salary act; he noticed that I had made 
 no account of the allowance of |4,000, and said he 
 thought I should have done so. I called his attention 
 to the particular language of the act, and after consider- 
 ing it, he agreed with my construction and accepted my 
 report as it was presented. 
 
816 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 This was iu 1881, and there never has been a day when 
 the bueiDess and duties of the office, as defined by that 
 act, have not been promptly and efficiently performed, 
 though multiplied, as they have been, by the natural 
 increase of legislative, executive and judicial business. 
 
 This has been admitted by everyone who has any 
 knowledge of the office and its work. 
 
 la November, 1882, the Secretary of State reported 
 the receipts of the office for the first year of his new 
 term, under the salary and allowance of $10,000, to be : 
 
 From fees as Secretary of State, Clerk of 
 Court of Errors and Prerogative Court, etc.. $11,758.52 
 From foreign insurance companies 3,421.95 
 
 $15,180.47 
 
 In 1883 the Legislature passed an act providing for 
 the incorporation of companies upon the payment of 
 moderate fees, and, in the six months succeeding its 
 adoption this act resulted in the inception of a business 
 which has since reached enormous proportions — a busi- 
 ness in which the Department of State in the few 
 months of the year 1883 earned for the benefit of the 
 State some $18,000. 
 
 The fees and the work of the Secretary of State's 
 office which produced them, went on increasing from 
 year to year until 1888, when they were reported as 
 follows : 
 
 From fees as Secretary of State, Clerk of 
 Court of Errors and Prerogative Court, 
 
 etc $17,115 76 
 
 From Foreign Insurance Companies 6,592 19 
 
 Fees under Corporatiou Act 37,754 00 
 
 $61,461 96 
 
 A comparison of the figures of 1882 and 1888 shows 
 that the work and fees of the Secretary of State, for the 
 performance of which the State had, in 1881, made the 
 allowances of $4,000 fijr clerk hire and $6,000 as salary, 
 had increased from $11,758.62 in 1882 to $17,115.76 in 
 1888 ; that the insurance business had grown from 
 $3,421.95 to $6,592.19; that the corporation business 
 
HENRY C. KELSBY. 817 
 
 and fees had developed from comparatively nothing to 
 $37,754.00, and that the total work and its result of 
 $15,180.47 in 1882, had been quadrupled in seven years, 
 and, in 1888, had reached $61,461.95, and all without 
 any increase of the allowance made to the Secretary of 
 State, for which he was to have the work of the office 
 promptly and efficiently done. 
 
 At its next session, in 1889, the Legislature in apparent 
 recognition of the fact that the business and. work of 
 the Department of State had iDcreased in every direc- 
 tion since 1881, when the compensation and allowance 
 of the Secretary of State had been fixed, passed two acts 
 providing means for meeting the added burdens. 
 
 As a matter of fairness to a public officer, and as a 
 means of making the Secretary of State's salary and 
 allowance bear some comparison to the increased work 
 of the office, the Legislature in 1889 provided in chapter 
 123, being a supplement to the Insurance Act, that the 
 expenses of carrying out that law should be paid out of 
 the fees derived from that law. 
 
 Under this act the insurance business was charged, in 
 1889, with $1,227.65 expenses; in 1890 with $1,848.82, 
 and in 1891 with $1,600. In 1891 the insurance busi- 
 ness of the State Department had become so great that 
 the Legislature created a special department for the 
 management of the business. On April Ist, 1891, the 
 Insurance Department was organized and the State 
 Department freed from the work. 
 
 Another act, chapter 111 (Laws of 1889), being a 
 supplement to the Corporation act, was passed at the 
 same session. This act provided for the levying, 
 collecting and caring for fees for filing the annual 
 reports of corporations, and also for the same work in 
 concection with the filing of all certificates not other- 
 wise provided for ; and also required the compilation 
 and publication of lists of existing and future corpora- 
 tions. The second section of this act provided that 
 " the expenses incurred in carrying out the provisions 
 of this act shall be paid by the Secretary of State from 
 moneys collected under this act, the act to which this is 
 a supplement or other supplements thereto." It has 
 been intimated that the law already provided for the 
 filing of the list of officers and directors, and for the 
 filing of the certificates not otherwise provided for, and 
 
818 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 created as new work only the preparation and publica- 
 tion of the lists of corporations. But, it is apparent that 
 the law provides, whether necessarily or unnecessarily ,. 
 for imposing, collecting, receipting and caring for tees for 
 filing the lists of ofiicers and all certificates for which pro- 
 vision had not yet been made. It also provided for the 
 searching, transcribing, compilation and publication 
 of a list of all corporations formed since 1848, and also 
 lor the compilation and publication of annual lists. 
 Having done this, the act provided that the expenses 
 incurred in carrying out the provisions of the act, not 
 merely the second section of the act, should be paid by 
 the Secretary of State from moneys collected under, not 
 only this act, but also " the act to which this is a sup- 
 plement and other supplements thereto " — the entire 
 system of corporate legislation. 
 
 It was but a fair interpretation that whatever was re- 
 quired to be done under this act should be a proper 
 charge against the receipts under the original corpora- 
 tion act and all its supplements. 
 
 This provision made it possible for the Secretary of 
 State to give to the corporation business that time, at- 
 tention and labor, that prompt and liberal treatment of 
 persons demanding services under the corporation laws 
 which has made the New Jersey law and its adminis- 
 tration so popular and the business so profitable to the 
 State. 
 
 In order that the Committee may form an adequate 
 idea of the immense volume of corporation work in the 
 office of the Secretary of State, it may be proper that 
 I should say that the total number of certificates and 
 reports filed during the year 1894 exceeded 5,800, and 
 the aggregate correspondence amounted to more than 
 20,000 letters received and answered. At times, and 
 frequently, every employe of the office, including the 
 Assistant Secretary of State, is engaged exclusively 
 upon corporation work. 
 
 Upon consulting the Assistant Secretary of State and 
 the chief clerk under the corporation law, this morning, 
 they agree that from two-thirds to three-quarters of the 
 entire work of the department consists of corporation 
 work, 
 
 It would be impossible to do the work that has been 
 done, under the restrictive features of the act of 1879,. 
 
DENRY C. KELSBY. S19 
 
 even if the Secretary of State could have been asked to 
 do it. The corporation businesa has been made the 
 warrant for the grant by the Legislature of increased 
 salaries to the Comptroller and State Treasurer and ad- 
 ditional clerical assistance to the Attorney-General. 
 The new and additional work imposed by the new cor- 
 poration system has nowhere been greater than in the 
 department of State, and nowhere has produced better 
 results for the State. All duties have been performed, 
 and the charges made by the Secretary are for moneys 
 actually expended upon vouchers filed with his annual 
 reports in that behalf. 
 
 The increase of corporation work in the Secretary of 
 State's office, during the period from 1888 to the end of 
 1894, over that of 1888, amounted in the six years dur- 
 ing which the supplement of 1889 was in force, to 
 $332,153.47, and the amount charged against these in- 
 creased receipts, for the additional work incident to the 
 increased duties of filings, recordings, searchings, copy- 
 ings, correspondence, and the preparation and compiling 
 of two large lists, and three annual lists, was |1 1,012. 
 
 It is beyond question that every service charged for 
 under the corporation act was rendered ; and it is cer- 
 tain that the increase of corporation business was largely 
 attributable to, and could only have been possible under, 
 the prompt and efiective manner in which this business 
 was conducted by the Secretary of State. All of the 
 business was extra to the work required of him by the 
 act which, in 1879, fixed his salary and allowance, and 
 the total extra charges made for the extra work involved 
 are but a very small proportion of the extra receipts. 
 
 Of the amount charged, I believe that all was covered 
 by the spirit of the law, and there was certainly no part 
 of the outlay which I did not feel was demanded by an 
 earnest, efiective and profitable administration of the 
 system as it existed. 
 
 This interpretation has been given to these laws with 
 the concurrence of every State officer who had any 
 official knowledge of or contact with them ; never, at 
 any time, until now, has any suggestion been made for 
 a variance of the practice which I inherited from my 
 predecessors and have pursued for twenty-five years, 
 except that mentioned in regard to Comptroller An- 
 derson. 
 
820 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 Q. What was that exception? A. The exception where he 
 had challenged the return of the $4,000 in my first report under 
 the salary act. When I presented my report, he said he thought 
 I ought to account for the expenditures under the allowance for 
 help of |4,000, and I said I thought the act didn't require it. 
 He examined the act and said he agreed with me, and he was 
 kind enough to call my attention to that a few days ago. I had 
 entirely overlooked it when I was before the Committee on the 
 last day. 
 
 And now, since the questions have been raised, I 
 have consulted counsel of character and position, three 
 gentlemen of the highest standing at the bar of the 
 State, and their unanimous judgment, given me in 
 writing, is that on the three several questions raised, I 
 was fully justified in law. 
 
 I think I have shown, Mr. Chairman, that I Lave not 
 only followed a long-established precedent, but that my 
 action has uniformly been in accordance with the 
 requirements of law, as I believed, and as I am now 
 advised by eminent legal talent. Farther, that it was 
 at all times acquiesced in by the financial officers of the 
 State, and that my reports were always matters of pub- 
 lic record, open alike to the Legislature and the people. 
 However, when, during the last session of the Com- 
 mittee, I was asked if I would be willing to pay the 
 amount collected during the current fiscal year into the 
 State Treasury at once, on request of the Committee, I 
 replied in the affirmative ; but the Committee has re- 
 frained from making such a request. 
 
 I was further asked by yourself, I believe, Mr. Chair- 
 man, if in ray judgment, some better system of collect- 
 ing and disbursing public moneys could not be devised ; 
 my reply was that I thought it would be reasonable and 
 practicable to require them to be paid into the State 
 Treasury monthly. 
 
 In pursuance of this view, and in deference to what I 
 believe to be an entirely just public sentiment, but with- 
 out receding in any way from my position that there is 
 no legal requirement to do so, either monthly or quar- 
 terly, I have paid into the State Treasury the entire bal- 
 ance in my hands, collected on behalf of the State dur- 
 ing the fiscal year, to the first day of the present month, 
 and have determined to do so hereafter monthly. 
 
HENRY C, KELSEY. 821 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Chairman, I wish, in opening, to 
 correct one statement made by the witness before he 
 read his written brief, and that was that he had not been 
 advised of the line the examination was to take last 
 week. I distinctly stated to Mr. Kelsey several days 
 before the examination commenced that the subject of 
 the examination would be the matter of his returns to 
 the State and his expenditures from the State's moneys. 
 I think he will recall that. 
 
 Before I proceed with the examination of witnesses I 
 have a brief statement of the law with reference to the 
 subject, including some statutes to which Mr. Kelsey 
 has not referred. The paper which he has presented I 
 have now seen or heard of for the first time. It is evi- 
 dently drawn with care, but the greater part of it does 
 not at all touch the issues raised by the examination 
 which was had here last week. I will briefly go over 
 some of the statutes I then referred to. 
 
 The Secretary of State collects four classes of fees, 
 and there are separate provisions of law fixing his 
 duties with respect to each. 
 
 First. Under the act of March 10th, 10th, 1879 
 (Sup., Rev. 892), he collects, for the use of the Slate, fees 
 for filing papers, issuing commissions and for other 
 duties performed in his office. Of these he is required 
 to render quarterly to the Comptroller a detailed state- 
 ment under oath, to be audited by the Comptroller and 
 then filed with the Treasurer. Within ten days there- 
 after he must pay over the amount of said fees to the 
 Treasurer, under a penalty of five hundred dollars for 
 each day's neglect. 
 
 These fees amount to $10,000 to $20,000 per year. 
 
 No quarterly statement has ever been filed, but annual 
 statements have. No statement in detail has ever been 
 filed, but statements at the end of the year in gross of 
 the amounts collected. 
 
 I submit to the Committee there is no repealer, 
 express or implied, of that statute anywhere in the 
 books, and it is in force to-day, not only with respect to 
 the Secretary of State, but such other officers as may be 
 mentioned in the act. 
 
 Second. Under the act of March 11th, 1880 (Rev. 
 Sup. 898 pi. 22 et seq.) he collects for the use of the State 
 the fees of the judges in the courts of which he is clerk. 
 
822 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 and is required within ten days after the close of each 
 term to make an itemized return to the Comptroller of 
 all such fees collected or charged, — as county clerks are 
 required to do. These returns are to be made on blank 
 forms furnished by the Comptroller. 
 
 'Bo such return has ever been made by the Secretary 
 of State, but he has made an annual return in gross, of 
 part of what is required, that is of the fees actaally 
 collected by him. 
 
 That law requires him to return all fees collected or 
 charged in taxed bills of costs ; by his own testimony, 
 he has returned nothing except what was collected, and 
 that in a lump sum at the end of the year ; without the 
 details required by law. This same section applies to 
 the Clerk of the Supreme Court, Clerk in Chancery and 
 the twenty-one County Clerks. They have complied 
 with it, Mr. Kelsey has not. 
 
 Payments are to be made quarterly. They have always 
 been made annually, and the amounts reported are about 
 $300 per year. 
 
 Third. Under the supplement to the corporation act 
 passed March 5, 1883, (Pamp. Laws, p. 62,) he is to col- 
 lect for the use of the State on the formation of every 
 corporation, fees amounting to $25, and more according 
 to the amount of capital of the corporation and also certain 
 other fees. This act is silent as to the time of reporting 
 and paying over the money to the treasurer, but the law 
 on that subject will be found in the act of March 24, 
 1868, (Rev. 1219, pi. 40,) which imposes on all public 
 officers, who as agents for the State, receive moneys 
 belonging to the State, forthwith upon receipt of the 
 same to report the same to the Comptroller for audit 
 and registry before any acquittance or discharge is given 
 therefor. 
 
 These fees have amounted to as much as $125,000 in 
 one year. 
 
 They have never been reported for audit either forth- 
 with or otherwise, but a statement giving in one item 
 for the total year has been filed with the Comptroller, 
 and the amount thereof paid annually in October. 
 
 These three classes of fees to which I have referred 
 you will observe are all for the use of the State, and 
 after a most careful reading of all these acts I cannot 
 see the slightest confusion, the slightest inconsistency 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 823 
 
 or any difficulty which would beset an ofBcer who 
 desired to fulfill those acts. I cannot see that there is 
 anything open for question as to his duty under them ; 
 they are plain in terms. They require a prompt, detailed 
 statement ot all moneys collected for the State, and the 
 prompt payment of the same into the treasury. 
 
 Fourth. Under the act of April 18th, 1891 (P. i., p. 
 511), the Secretary has retained to his own use, in addi- 
 tion to his salary, all fees received by him as Clerk or 
 Register of the Prerogative Court. Even admitting 
 that the act permitted him to do so, yet the act of 
 March 14th, 1879 (P. L., p. 338), requires that he shall 
 render a statement of fees retained for his own use 
 quarterly to the Comptroller showing separately the 
 grdss amount of each kind of fees, under a penalty of 
 $100. 
 
 He has made no statement whatever of these fees 
 from 1891 to the present time. 
 
 The testimony shows that the Secretary has retained 
 of these fees $3,000 to $1,000 a year. 
 
 One point in this printed paper that Mr. Kelsey has 
 submitted is the statement that the act of March 14th, 
 1879, repealed the act of March 10th, 1879. I conceive 
 that to be an utter misconstruction of those laws ; 
 when two laws are passed upon the same or cognate 
 subjects by the same Legislature, particularly if it be at 
 about the same time, they are, if possible, to be con- 
 strued together. For example, the Railroad Tax law of 
 April 10th, 1884, was followed fourteen days later by 
 the act for the taxation of other corporations, April 24th, 
 1884. The two are to be construed together as a system 
 of corporate taxation devised by that Legislature which 
 had the subject under consideration. 
 
 So with reference to these two acts of March 10th 
 and March 14th, 1879; both refer to the Secretary of 
 State, but far from being inconsistent they are, in fact, 
 the complement one of the other ; one refers exclusively 
 to fees collected by the Secretary for his own use ; the 
 other to fees collected by him for the use of the State. 
 Together they regulate the Secretary's duty with respect 
 to fees and are as clear and plain as they can be ; every 
 line and every letter of both can stand without a word 
 of inconsistency. The other clerks in the State haven't 
 
824 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 had any doubt about it. These returns have been made 
 by every other clerk in the State ; blank forms have 
 been sent out to the County Clerks, the Clerk in Chan- 
 cery and the Clerk of the Supreme Court, and nobody 
 has had any doubt about his duty. 
 
 Mr. Kelsey — l^ever to the Secretary of State. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I suppose they could have been gotten 
 by going across the hall. They are printed by law and 
 must be furnished upon application to every clerk of 
 court. Whatever the facts may be, and whatever the 
 characterization of what has been done may be, the law 
 is plain enough ; and don't let us befog our minds by 
 any intricate or difficult reasoning about it ; there are 
 four plain statutes relating to four subjects. There is 
 no doubt about the duty of the Secretary of State in 
 reference to them. The circumstances with which he 
 has surrounded it, and the atmosphere in which he was, 
 and all that, is another matter ; but as to his duty, I 
 cannot find room for any cavil about it. 
 
 Mr. Kelsey — Mr. Chairman, counsel says that he ad- 
 vised me that an inquiry would be made in regard to 
 my reports to the Treasurer. I do not recall his having 
 said so to me at any time. A member of the Com- 
 mittee, yourself, Mr. Chairman, advised me the day 
 before, or two days before the first time I was upon the 
 stand, that there would be some inquiry in regard to the 
 operations of the office, with a view to recommend a 
 better system or improvement if it was thought advis- 
 able. That is all the notice that I had so far as I can 
 recall. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There must have been some misunder- 
 standing about it, I suppose. 
 
 Mr. Kelsey — ISTow, as to the blanks to be furnished by 
 the Comptroller, I have never seen one in my life; none 
 has ever been furnished ; I am not aware now that he 
 has ever furnished them to anybody. As to the reports 
 by other officials. County Clerks, and the Clerk in 
 Chancery and the Clerk of the Supreme Court, I think 
 the records will show that not a single one of them have 
 made a quarterly report. 
 
 Mr. Corbie — Oh, yes ; we have had many of them 
 here in evidence. 
 
 Mr. Kelsey— I speak particularly of State officials 
 under the act to which you have referred. And further- 
 
HENEY C. KELSEY. 825 
 
 more, Mr. Chairman, the points taken in the paper 
 which I have submitted are in accordance with the advice 
 ot counsel as highly respected, as distinguished as there 
 are at the bar of this State, and I submitted the four points 
 raised as I have stated in the paper.; I have their opinion 
 in my pocket that my action was in accordance with law. 
 Had the action ever been challenged before I should 
 have known exactly what to have done ; it never was 
 taken ; I never had any occasion to take any advice 
 about it or consult any one. Now that I have done so, 
 they have advised me that my action is in accardance 
 with the law as they construe it and understand it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — When the former day's examination was 
 closed Mr. Kelsey asked for time to prepare a statement 
 of the disbursements of his office for clerical assistance, 
 which was accorded him, and I have the statement here. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Cokbin. 
 
 Q. I show you a paper headed, " Statement showing disburse- 
 ments made by Henry C. Kelsey, Secretary of State, for services 
 rendered in the Department of State during the years ending 
 September 30th, 1889 to 1894." Was this prepared in your 
 office? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Statement oflered in evidence and marked " Exhibit 
 294," of which the following is a copy : 
 " State of New Jersey. 
 " Department of State. 
 " Statement showing disbursements made by Henry 
 C. Kelsey, Secretary of State, for services rendered in 
 the Department of State during years ending Septem- 
 ber 30th, as follows : 
 
826 
 
 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 
 1889. 
 
 1890. 
 
 1891. 
 
 1892. 
 
 1893. 
 
 1894. 
 
 A. H. Rickey 
 
 T. K. Johnston 
 
 $1500 00 
 
 1210 00 
 
 ]52 28 
 
 $425 00 
 
 1365 00 
 
 84 37 
 
 
 
 
 
 $1500 00 
 139 72 
 405 00 
 
 
 
 
 Mrs. Winans 
 
 $94 40 
 465 00 
 
 $95 83 
 510 00 
 
 $179 45 
 
 Mary A. Mitchell 
 
 35 OO' 305 66 
 288 00 80 on 
 
 600 00 
 
 
 
 A. D'A. Naar Sr 
 
 361 62 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 102 65 
 700 00 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Gen E F Stockton 
 
 250 00 
 848 00 
 640 00 
 419 99 
 112 00 
 450 00 
 209 50 
 
 101 00 
 199 32 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 352 00 
 640 00 
 645 00 
 437 00 
 800 00 
 385 00 
 
 
 750 00 
 
 2000 00 
 
 Joseph D Hall 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 220 00 
 714 00 
 
 
 
 Wm. Hy. Eea 
 
 
 720 66 
 
 780 00 
 
 Jas. S. Yard 
 
 
 
 W. P. Wells 
 
 
 855 00 
 
 625 00 
 
 
 Election Act— (Pay roll 
 to A. H. Rickey) 
 
 
 
 Chas. E. Hendrickson 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 720 00 
 
 490 33 
 
 200 00 
 
 50 00 
 
 16 25 
 
 8 50 
 
 1 00 
 
 50 00 
 
 200 00 
 
 1000 00 
 1020 00 
 
 1180 00 
 773 33 
 200 00 
 100 00 
 
 1200 00 
 
 G. B. LaBarre 
 
 
 
 
 S. M. Dickinson 
 
 
 
 
 W. S. Potter 
 
 
 
 50 00 
 5 00 
 
 100 00 
 
 Mrs. Wells 
 
 
 
 
 Mrs. Decker 
 
 
 
 32 40 
 
 
 Miss Felty 
 
 
 
 
 
 Wm. F. Abbett 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Samuel Walker 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Miss Godshalk 
 
 
 
 315 00 
 
 585 00 
 
 600 on 
 
 Knight & Gnichtel 
 
 
 
 5 00 
 
 
 Miss Dillon 
 
 
 
 95 00 
 
 
 
 P. J.Anderson 
 
 
 
 
 150 00 
 160 00 
 5 50 
 1 00 
 150 00 
 200 00 
 
 700 00 
 
 E. T. Maloy 
 
 
 
 
 
 510 00 
 
 H. L. Wallace 
 
 
 
 
 
 9 00 
 
 C. C. Havens 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Wm. H. Knowles 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 A. L. McDermott 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Fell 
 
 
 
 
 TFt no 
 
 Miss Dunning 
 
 
 
 
 
 11 50 
 
 J. B. Johnston 
 
 
 
 
 
 120 00 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 $4349 55 
 
 $5489 isl 
 
 $7044 80 
 
 $4833 40 
 
 $6238 06 
 
 $6824 95 
 
 Q. jVIso detailed statements for each of the years mentioned, 
 being six in number, these were also prepared in your office and 
 under your direction ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. These contain your disbursements not only for clerical 
 services, but legal services, and all such things ? A. All services 
 in the office except printing. 
 
 Six papers referred to offered in evidence and marked 
 " Exhibit 295, 296, 297, 298, 299 and 300." 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The summary which I have put on the 
 record of these disbursements is for the year ending, 
 September 30. 
 
 Senator Daly— Do I understand that under the 40th 
 section which you have referred to of the Revised Stat- 
 utes, page 1219, that a fair construction of that section 
 
HENRY C. KEL8EY. 827 
 
 would provide that he should pay over the money forth- 
 with to the Treasurer. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Well, read it, please. He shall report it 
 forthwith to the Comptroller, who is to audit it and pass 
 upon it ; you asked whether the money shall go with it. 
 
 Senator Daly — I merely make a suggestion to you, 
 because my reading of the act as I understand it is that 
 he merely shall report to the Comptroller for the pur- 
 pose of audit only, not for the purpose of paying the 
 moneys over. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I see your point, and I will read the 
 section : 
 
 "40. Section 2. That it shall be the duty of the 
 treasurer forthwith, upon the receipt of any interest, or 
 other moneys belonging to the state or to the school 
 fund, or other funds in his custody, to report the same 
 to the comptroller for audit and registry before any 
 acquittance or discharge is given therefor; and the 
 same duty is imposed upon all public officers or other 
 persons, who as agents for the state receive license fees 
 or other moneys belonging to the state." 
 
 I suppose the Senator's point is that the Secretary of 
 State could receive the money, take it in and submit it 
 for audit with the statement of it to the Comptroller 
 and have the Comptroller countersign the receipt, which 
 is evidently what is meant, and still the Secretary of 
 State retain the money. 
 
 Senator Daly — I don't say that. I mean to say a fair 
 interpretation of the act would not go beyond his pre- 
 senting the claim or the bill for mere audit and register. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If the Comptroller audits that payment 
 he has got to have the statement of it. In the first 
 place he has got to audit it and register it in his books ; 
 if he did that without the money actually coming into 
 the treasury I think he ought to be impeached. 
 
 Senator Daly — Well, it may be so. The act don't go 
 beyond that though. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't believe any Comptroller of this 
 State ever audited a payment into the treasury without 
 the money getting there, and you will observe that this 
 register of the entries is the Comptroller's cash account, 
 which ought to agree with the Treasurer's cash balance 
 or else the financial system of the State would break 
 down; his balance must constantly agree with the other. 
 
828 HENEY C. KELSEY. 
 
 If he should begin to register moneys which the 
 sheriffs, prosecutors, county clerks, Clerk of the Court 
 of Errors, and courts all around the State, in which 
 there are probably a hundred officers entitled to receive 
 moneys — register those moneys in his books and 
 countersign acquittances for them without the funds 
 getting into the treasury, he would soon be in trouble. 
 I don't conceive that it is possible that he can register 
 those moneys without their being actually passed into 
 the treasury ; it would not be proper. 
 
 These disbursements for the year ending September 
 30th, 1889, are |4,349.55; for the year 1890, $5,489.18; 
 for the year 1891, $7,044.80; for the year 1892, $4,- 
 833.40; for the year 1893, $6,238.06; for the year 1894, 
 $6,824.95. That is all, except the printing. 
 Senator Skirm — And the $4,000 allowance ? 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir ; this is the entire disbursements 
 of the office, as I understand the witness, except the 
 printiflg disbursements. 
 Q. Is that correct, Mr. Kelsey ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These detailed statements which the 
 witness has produced are of three sheets each, the first 
 sheet showing checks drawn upon the Mechanics' Bank 
 to various persons rendering services ; second, those 
 drawn upon the Sussex Bank ; and thirdly, those made 
 in cash. 
 Q. I see that for the year 1889 you drew the annual appropria- 
 tion of $4,000 for clerical services; also for services in the Cor- 
 poration Department, $950; also for services in the Insurance 
 Department, $1,227.65, making a total of $6,177.65. The state- 
 ment you have rendered shows that your entire disbursements 
 that year were $4,349.55. How is it that the amount you drew 
 from the treasury was so much in excess of the amount that you 
 actually disbursed in your office; the difference is $1,828.10? 
 A. The amount disbursed on account of insurance and corpora- 
 tions and banks from that account ; the $4,000 allowance I made 
 no account of whatever ; I kept no account of the $4,000. 
 
 Q. Well, you had in your office five or six clerks upon salaries, 
 I suppose, or three or four, did you not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And they were paid their monthly salaries as required by 
 law? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And then you had certain other extra disbursements for 
 clerical and legal services ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
HENRY C. KEL8EY. 829 
 
 Q. Well, now, these all amount to but $4,349, and yet you 
 drew in these three ways $6,177 from the State; I see that in 
 your printed paper, the 4th page, you speak of this $4,000 allow- 
 ance for clerical hire, and make the point that it belongs to you 
 whether the clerical services costs more or less. A. Yes, sir; 
 the extra work put upon the office didn't come within the scope 
 of the $4,000. 
 
 Q. Well, the extra work put upon the office for which you 
 have put in vouchers is simply for that insurance amendment of 
 1889 and the corporation amendment of 1889? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Wasn't it merely an arbitrary matter as to how much you 
 put in vouchers to the State for at the end of the year ? A. 'So, 
 I think not; I made what I considered to be a fair estimate of 
 the corporation work and of the insurance work, and, as I have 
 already stated, there are times when the entire force of the office 
 is engaged on corporation work ; there are times when only a 
 portion of it is engaged in corporation work ; I charged what I 
 considered a lair amount to that account and produced the 
 vouchers in every case. 
 
 Q. What you considered a fair amount of the entire corpora- 
 tion work done there in your office ? A. The corporation work 
 and the insurance work, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, there was always corporation work done in that office 
 for forty years past ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And this act of 1889 simply added one or two little matters, 
 did it not, such as making up of this list ? A. It was at that 
 time that the work began to grow to very large proportions, and 
 I think I have already stated that the work of that character last 
 year amounted to 5,820 papers filed and 20,000 letters. 
 
 Q. In the year 1890 you drew on the State for clerical services, 
 $6,556.07, and your statement shows that you paid out $5,489.18, 
 a difference of $1,066.89. A. I continued to charge, and have 
 always charged under this act, Mr. Corbin, a reasonable amount 
 on account of the corporation work. 
 
 Q. Well, you have so made the statement at the end of the 
 year that out of that $4,000 clerical allowance you have made a 
 profit of from $1,000 to $1,800 for several years? A. I want to 
 say, Mr. Corbin, and Mr. Chairman, that as to the duties of the 
 office as they existed when that act was passed, and as they exist 
 to-day, the duties which were then upon the office as they exist 
 to-day, the allowance was always more than sufficient, taking into 
 consideration also the salary of the Secretary of State, and 1 held 
 and hold now, Mr. Chairman, that whether I did the entire work 
 of the office myself, or members of my family, or whether I did 
 
830 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 it with one clerk or with two, I was entitled to the allowance of 
 $4,000 ; I was not bound to account for it to the State at all. 
 
 Q. Admitting that as so, Mr. Kelsey, in the year 1894 you still 
 drew for the services under the Corporation Act $3,150 additional, 
 and you have in your statement said that it was for services 
 rendered under the supplement of 1889, which has the making up 
 of the annual list, and the supplement of 1894 which has the 
 foreign corporation matter in which 122 certificates were filed. 
 Now, can it by any possible construction be said that $3,150 was 
 a fair allowance for that amount of work. A. T don't say that it 
 is possible to separate the duties of the several branches of the 
 corporation work. 
 
 Q. But the act does separate them ? A. But I have already 
 said, and I repeat, that every single employe of the office at 
 times was engaged upon that work, whether exactly upon the 
 preparation of the compilation of the lisis, the filing of certifi- 
 cates, the making of certified copies, attending to correspondence 
 or not, it is impossible to say. Every clerk of the office does 
 whatever comes to his hand, but the bulk of the work, as I have 
 already stated, two-thirds or three-quarters of it is corporation 
 work, and the additional duties imposed by the act of April 3d, 
 1889, have been very large ; whether the amount charged, $3,000, 
 is exactly embraced precisely, and only in the work done under 
 that act I wouldn't be able to say. 
 
 Q. Isn't the amount arbitrary ; I see you have taken the salar- 
 ies of some of your clerks and charged half of the salary of two- 
 thirds of the salary or more of the salary to the corporations ? A. 
 In some cases. 
 
 Q. Enough to make up the $3,150? Yes, sir, arbitrarily, 
 there is no fixed rule about it. 
 
 Q. During this last year, 1894 ? A. You will observe — 
 Q. That was compiled in your office, this pamphlet of sixty 
 pages, under the act of 1889? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And there were filed 122 certificates of foreign corpora- 
 tions. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And to give it your still further construction, you filed the 
 lists of directors; you were entitled, you say, to special compen- 
 sation for that? Can it be possible that one clerk could not have 
 done all that and done it in the office time ? A. No, sir ; during 
 that year there were twelve thousand abstracts made. 
 
 Q. Abstracts of what ? ^. In regard to that list of corpora- 
 tions during 1894, 
 
 Q. This list that I have in my hand? A. I don't say that; I 
 am reading from a certificate of the corporation clerk. 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 831 
 
 Q. That is scarcely testimony, but you should know what the 
 list is. It was this list that was printed, of course, was it not? 
 A. Under the head of " Miscellaneous certificates not otherwise 
 provided for," there were about four hundred filed at $20 each, 
 $8,000. 
 
 Q. The mere filing of a paper is no serious duty, is it ? Don't 
 you suppose the Clerk in Chancery or the Supreme Court Clerk 
 files five where you file one ? A. Five papers ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. Very likely they do; I don't know anything at 
 all about the operation of their ofiices. 
 
 Q. But as a matter of fact nothing has to be done except ac- 
 knowledging the receipt of the paper and endorse and enter it, 
 has there? A. We issue a certificate; a certificate under seal is 
 required to be issued for every one that is filed ; they have to be 
 endorsed, filed and certified, copies without end, how many it is 
 impossible to say are issued, the fee for which goes to the State. 
 
 Q. But that is not under the act of 1889, not all of them at 
 least? A. It is in regard to those certificates. 
 
 Q. In the year 1892, the amount received from the State was 
 $6,575, and the amount paid out for disbursements was $4,833.44, 
 difference, $1,741.60 ; in the year 1898 the amount received from 
 the State was $7,345 ; the amount disbursed was $6,288.06, dif- 
 ference, $1,106.94; in 1894, the amount received was $7,150 from 
 the State, disbursed $6,824.95, the difference, $325.05? A. It 
 has been impossible to classify the clerks engaged on that service; 
 if I should attempt to do so — if I should attempt to charge one 
 clerk or a sufficient number of clerks to do that work, with that 
 work alone the expense would be infinitely larger than it is to- 
 day. 
 
 Q. Well, wouldn't a fair construction of it be that you should 
 draw from the State tor clerical services as much as you pay out 
 for clerical services, and no more? A. That is what I have done, 
 except as to the $4,000. 
 
 Q. It appears that you have drawn from a thousand to eighteen 
 hundred dollars a year more than you have paid out, by your own 
 statement 1 A. 1 haven't attempted — it is impossible in that state- 
 ment, Mr. Corbin ; that embraces matters for which I have vouch- 
 ers and evidence in the main, in fact, entirely; but there have 
 been many cash payments for the work done outside of the office, 
 for which I kept no account at all, and never considered myself 
 liable to account for the $4,000 ; no Comptroller ever held that 
 I was; on the contrary, as I have already stated, the Comptroller 
 who received my first account — and no abler officer ever served 
 the State — held that I was not to account for it ; I had the work 
 
832 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 of the office done that year, and every year, and I may have ex- 
 pended the whole of it, I may have expended only part of it; I 
 don't pretend to account for it; I contend that I vpas not bound 
 to account for it. 
 
 Q. Then in making up your statement of the additional clerical 
 services lor the State to pay, you fixed it arbitrarily at about what 
 you thought was about right and a fair charge ? J.. I did. 
 
 §. Without reference to what you had paid out 1 A.\ did ; 
 there has never been any time when every clerk in the office was 
 charged — the services of every clerk was charged to that account ; 
 sometimes, as you have stated and as appears from the statements 
 I have given yon, the entire services of one or two or three clerks 
 have been charged, and sometimes a portion of that ; I divided it 
 according to my best judgment, with perfect fairness to the State 
 and perfect justness to the State. 
 
 §. Of course these same clerlss have been at work in the 
 Prerogative Office in the duties of that court, have they not ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you have retained the fees of three or four thousand 
 dollars earned in that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You say you had vouchers for all of these ; was it your 
 custom to take receipts from your clerks? A. Yes, sir; very 
 largely. 
 
 Q. These duplicate receipts that I see attached to your returns 
 to the Comptroller are some of them ? A. Yes, sir ; there is no 
 duplication of the amounts. 
 
 §. I observe in this statement for the year 1894 that Dunning's 
 salary is a hundred dollars a month, but that in March, 1894, he 
 was given $300 additional? A. Yes, sir; that has been my 
 practice ; you will find that in another case, which I think, if I 
 am right — 
 
 Q. And in October he was given $200 additional? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 §. What was that for? A. That was for an addition to his 
 regular monthly salary, and in another case — 
 
 Q. For what, anything the State was concerned in ? A. Yes, 
 sir; entirely. 
 
 Q. What was it for ; what was the occasion of singling this 
 clerk out and giving him $300 at one time and $200 at another ? 
 A. I done it simply because he was entitled to a larger compen- 
 sation than he was getting, and I am now paying him regularly 
 $120 a month. The same thing occurred on one occasion with 
 Thomas K. Johnston. He has been in the office a great many 
 years. 
 
HBNBY C. KELSEY. 833 
 
 Q. That was on the occasion of his leaving ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You gave him $500 additional, then? A. I did. 
 
 Q. He gave you a receipt then for $1,250, which included that 
 vtrhich you put in as a voucher to the State? A. Yes, sir; it 
 was under the insurance act, and he had the principal charge of 
 the insurance business ; it was fair and just compensation ; I have 
 always regretted that I had not made it a thousand dollars. 
 
 Q. Did you consider that you were at liberty to make a 
 present at the expense of the State ? A. It wasn't a present. 
 
 Q. He was drawing a salary of $125 a month for the entire 
 year? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. On the day he left, you handed him $500 more? A. As 
 additional compensation. 
 
 Q. Did he demand any additional compensation ? A. 1 don't 
 think he did. 
 
 Q. You then took a receipt from him for $1,250? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And handed it in to the State as a voucher for his services 
 for the entire half year? A. Yes, sir; and the State had the 
 worth of the money ; there never was a more faithful man in the 
 State House than Thomas K. Johnston; he came to me as a boy, 
 and had been in my office for more than twenty years, but his salary 
 was never as much as it should have been ; I was very glad to 
 give him additional compensation, and when he left, as I have 
 said, I always regretted that I hadn't made it higher. 
 
 Q. As a State officer handling State funds you could hardly 
 make presents out of the State money? A. It was not a present. 
 
 Q. I understand that it was not demanded or agreed on ; he 
 had had his regular salary 1 A. 1 don't know whether he 
 demanded it or not ; I don't remember about that ; I can't say ; 
 it was given to him as additional compensation just exactly as I 
 have done in many cases in my private life, in my public life, 
 and as I expect to do as long as I live to the men who have 
 served me faithfully and well. 
 
 Q. That is rather a matter of private benevolence than dis- 
 bursements of public funds ? A, I^ot at all. 
 
 Q. You think that is a proper disbursement of public funds ? 
 A. Perfectly, sir. 
 
 Q. Alter the services have been rendered and the stipend paid 
 that presents should be given out of the public funds? A. It 
 was not a present at all, any more than if you had served me 
 faithfully in any matter in which I may have employed you, and 
 I thought you were entitled to greater compensation than you 
 had received and I paid you additional compensation. 
 
 53 SH 
 
834 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 Q. That will do with private faada undoubtedly, but I hardly 
 think— A. I treated Mr. Johnston and Mr. Dunning exactly 
 as I would have treated them if they were in my own employ. 
 
 Q. It couldn't have happened if the money had been paid into 
 the treasury and the Treasurer had been paying^the salaries ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you think the Treasurer of this State could have paid 
 out $500 as a present to a man without — A. ISTot at all; if I 
 had certified it to the Treasurer I should have certified it for his 
 services rendered, and that is what it was paid for ; and if I had 
 certified it to the Comptroller I should have certified it for 
 services rendered and took a receipt for services rendered ; that 
 is what it was paid for, and it was an entirely just payment. 
 
 Q. It was your judgment that the stipend theretofore paid was 
 really not as much as Mr. Johnston deserved ? A. Probably not. 
 Q. That was the reasoning which led you to pay him more? 
 A. I thought he was fully and justly entitled to it; he was leav- 
 ing my ofiice to become an officer of the State himself at a salary 
 of $2,500 ; he had been a very valuable man, and is to day, and I 
 will take him back in the office to-day, if he wants a position, at 
 a great deal more salary than I ever paid him. 
 
 Q. That is not the question, about Mr. Johnston's efficiency, 
 I think, at all. And the $500 paid to Mr. Dunning you say was 
 from similar consideration ? A. Precisely the same. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Is the same salary being paid these 
 gentlemen now, or this gentleman Mr. Dunning, as that. 
 $500 he had at that time ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Ko; Dunning is receiving a hundred 
 dollars a month now. 
 
 Senator Skirm — What did he get during the time 
 when he got this $500. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — A hundred dollars a month; for this 
 last year returned here, 1893-4, Mr. Dunning receives 
 a hundred dollars a month regularly, and in October 
 1893, an additional payment of $200 ; in March, 1894, 
 an additional payment of $300. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand then that that was 
 for extra services rendered. 
 A. That was additional compensation for the services rendered; 
 for extra services rendered, and the services were rendered in good 
 faith and the vouchers taken for it, not as a present or gratuity 
 but for services actually rendered to the State ; the State had full 
 value, and, moreover, I want to say that if you will compare the 
 clerical expenses of my office with other offices of the State House 
 
HENKY C. KELSEY. 835 
 
 you will find that, including those sums, there was no extrava- 
 gance. If I had given them |5,000 and charged it to the State 
 that would have been another thing. The salaries are reasona- 
 ble; they are satisfactory to the clerks, and the clerks in my 
 office have been there for a long time. Mr. Johnston came as a 
 boy and graduated as Assistant Deputy Commissioner of Insur- 
 ance, and I will take him back into the office to-day, if he wants 
 a place, at |1,800 or $2,000. ISTo, sir; I was not in the habit of 
 giving away the State's money. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I understand that no demand 
 was made by Mr. Johnston for this additional compen- 
 sation. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Kelsey says he thinks not. 
 
 Q. There is another item here, September, 1894, |150 to 
 Winaris; all the other items are small, four dollars, three dollars, 
 &c. That was for a similar purpose ? A. N"o, sir; that was far 
 cash disbursements covering a considerable period that year. 
 
 Q. For copying? A. Yes, sir; she is a typewriter and had 
 done a good deal of work, and she works a good deal for the 
 Chancery office. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Will you allow me to ask a question 
 before you leave that subject, so as to make it all clear 
 with Mr. Kelsey ? As I understand these amounts — 
 what salary was Mr. Johnston getting ? A. |125. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And he had been with you how long ? 
 A. He came with me in 1872. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And his salary you had increased 
 gradually from the time of boyhood up to that time? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But as he was about leaving you you 
 believed that his services had been worth more money and you 
 gave him $600 additional 'i A. 1 did. 
 
 Q. And, Mr. Kelsey, when he left you in April, 1891, he had 
 been with you half a year, that is, the half year for which you 
 had not taken vouchers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you then took a voucher from him for $1,250 ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. For his salary for six months at $125, and the $500 ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q, And that voucher was turned into the State as $1,250 com- 
 pensation to him for six months' services? A. Not for six 
 months' services ; I won't say that, but the voucher probably 
 read for six months' services ; I grant that it did ; I don't dispute 
 that; I am willing to admit it. 
 
836 HENEY C. KELSEY. 
 
 Q. "March 28, 1891. Received, Trenton, K J., from Henry 
 C. Kelsey, Secretary of State, $1,250, in full payment for services 
 Department of State, Insurance Bureau, from October 1, 1890, to 
 April 1, 1891. Thomas K. Johnston?" A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Was Johnston's salary deducted 
 from the corporation moneys ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This particular one was deducted from 
 the insurance moneys ; others were deducted from the 
 corporation moneys that year. This paying of the $500 
 was on the occasion of the separating of the Insurance 
 Department from the Secretary of State's office, and 
 Mr. Johnston became Deputy Commissioner of Insurance. 
 Chairman Voorhees — Has Mr. Kelsey been asked 
 why that $600 was not taken out of the $4,000 of his 
 allowance instead of out of this corporation money or 
 insurance money? 
 Q. The Chairman asks Mr. Kelsey why that $500 was not 
 taken out of the $4,000 allowance for clerical hire instead of out 
 of the State Treasury ? A. Because Mr. Johnston had been for 
 years engaged almost exclusively upon the insurance work ; he 
 had charge of the insurance matters, and it was out of the educa- 
 tion and the practice he acquired there that he graduated from 
 his seat in that office to be Deputy Commissioner of Insurance, 
 and he is fit to be Commissioner of Insurance, because it was ser- 
 vices rendered strictly under the insurance act, Mr. Chairman, 
 and I want to emphasize that. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I hand up for the inspection of the Com- 
 mittee the schedule, together with the datailed statements 
 accompanying it. 
 
 STATIONERY- AND BLANKS. 
 
 The act to which I desire to call the attention of the 
 Committee is the act of 1883, page 210. It is in regard 
 to the printing of stationery and blanks and furnishing 
 stationery for the use of the diflerent departments. 
 This act was amended in 1885, and the amendment will 
 be found on page 210 of the Laws of that year : 
 
 "4. It shall be the duty of the Comptroller to advertise 
 in like manner, during the month of May of each year, for 
 proposals for printing all blanks and furnishing all station- 
 ery required for the use of the several departments and 
 public offices of the State government for the ensuing year, 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 837 
 
 in accordance with forms and samples to be submitted by 
 them ; said proposals to be asked for not as a whole, but 
 the stationery proposals to be made separate and dis- 
 tinct from the proposals for blanks, and the samples and 
 specifications for each of the two proposals to be sepa- 
 rately shown in the Comptroller's specifications and sep- 
 arate contracts to be made therefor ; and it shall be the 
 duty of the head of each department and public office of th e 
 State government, in the month of April in each year, 
 to furnish the Comptroller with a statement of the 
 amount and kind of stationery, and with samples of 
 such blanks as will be needed by their respective de- 
 partments." 
 
 This act of 1883 marked a departure. It was in- 
 tended to introduce into the furnishing of blanks and 
 stationery for the State House, competition, and did 
 introduce competition, and was an act undoubtedly in 
 the interest of economy and efficiency in the public 
 service. Instead of making every ofiicer and every 
 clerk of the State a purchasing agent, it proposes to 
 introduce a little foresight into the management of the 
 State House affairs, and to compel requisition^ from 
 State officers as to the blanks and stationery they would 
 want, and to have the contracts open to competition, so 
 that all dealers in those commodities and all printers 
 would have an equal chance to share in the public 
 service of that character. The law requires that in 
 April annually each oflBcer and head of department 
 shall make requisition for what he wants during the 
 coming year, one requisition for blanks, another for 
 stationery. The Comptroller must advertise in May, 
 and about the first of June award the contract for the 
 coming year for all stationery and all blanks that he is 
 requested to order by the different departments. ISTow, 
 as a matter of fact, some of the officers of the State 
 government do not make requisitions for what they 
 want; some make requisitions for part only, and a 
 small part; others make no requisitions at all for certain 
 things, and the result is that while those contracts are 
 given out, and that at very economical prices, after 
 thorough competition by honest printers who desire to 
 get the State's work, yet valuable printing of blanks 
 and a great mass of other work of the State are not called 
 for by a State officer; but after the contract is awarded, 
 
838 HENRY C KELSEY. 
 
 these are given out by them to certaiu favored persons 
 at prices, not the prices bid at all, but at whatsoever 
 prices are agreed upon or that the dealer sees fit to put 
 on, to the very considerable loss and damage to the 
 State. The prices for the contract work, when laid 
 beside prices for the work not done by contract, will, I 
 think, surprise you. 
 
 It is no doubt true that some stationery and blanks 
 that will be required cannot be foreseen ; it is quite possi- 
 ble that after the requisition is put in in April the Leg- 
 islature may even as late as May pass laws which will 
 require new blanks, so that it is not possible to deal 
 finally with the subject in May, but substantially what 
 is to be required ought to be known in the spring. 
 Many of the blanks required are prescribed by law, par- 
 ticularly the important ones, and it is put upon certain 
 oflicers to provide them, and they ought to be in the 
 contract work if the contract system is to continue. 
 Q. Mr. Kelsey, in making up your requests to the Comptroller 
 in the spring why do you not make requisition for the election 
 blanks? A. I can hardly — let me see that act, please — I can 
 hardly answer that question, except that our experience with some 
 contract work in the office has been very unfavorable, and if we 
 had the same class of work done by contract in regard to the 
 election blanks that has been done — and quite recently — other 
 public work printing under the contract system, it would throw 
 the entire State in the greatest confusion in regard to elections. 
 Q. The law says that in making your requisition you shall fur- 
 nish samples of what you want, which would naturally be last 
 year's blanks ; what difficulty would there be about a contract 
 printer following copy? A. There ought not to beany special 
 difficulty any more than there was last year in the printer of the 
 public laws, the pamphlet laws, following the copy, but you per- 
 haps yourself have had occasion to notice — perhaps been annoyed 
 and confused by the character of the work shown in the pamph- 
 let laws of 1894; the election printing is one of very great im- 
 portance, and we have taken very great pains with it, and so far 
 as I have any knowledge, never a single error has occurred. 
 
 Q. Well, that consideration hardly justifies a violation of the 
 statutes, does it? A. We furnish a very large quantity of 
 samples to the Comptroller; I have also done it this year, and I 
 have done so always. 
 
 Q. The law requires you annually to publish a list of corpora- 
 tions. Why do you not put in a requisition for that to be done 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 839 
 
 by contract? A. Because the law requiring that was published 
 subsequent to the contract act, and I think the election law was 
 also, if I remember right. 
 
 Q. You had to furnish blanks under the old election law, 
 didn't you ? A. Yes, sir, for returns from the Boards of County 
 Canvassers, but in regard to corporations, the act expressly pro- 
 vides that the Secretary of State shall pay the expense out of the 
 lees collected, and it is the ordinary repealer, and I have never 
 supposed, and don't now, in fact, I certified those bills on one 
 or two occasions to the Comptroller, he has returned them to the 
 office and they are — 
 
 Q. You also publish during the year circulars and copies of 
 laws relating to corporations, and pamphlets, &c. Why are those 
 not pnt in your requisition ? A. Because the necessity for them 
 cannot be foreseen. 
 
 Q. Isn't it inevitable ; haven't you every year for many years 
 published these circulars, more or less? A. I publish as fast as 
 general public laws relating to corporations — and an act recently 
 passed in regard to days of grace ; while strictly it was not a 
 matter for the office, it was a matter of such gross public import- 
 ance that I had the slip printed and sent to every bank in the 
 State, and as to the circulars, amendments and supplements to 
 the Corporation Act which are issued from time to time, our 
 practice has been to issue them in slips and pamphlet form just 
 as promptly as possible and send them to every counsel — we 
 have a record of counsel. 
 
 Q. The State Board of Health also publishes circulars and 
 pamphlets, and during the year just as you publish them, and in 
 similar form. They always put in a requisition to have it done by 
 contract. "Why could you not do the same ? A. I don't know 
 that they do that. 
 
 Q. They do. A. My attention was called to the 59th section 
 of the election act. 
 
 Q. Even if you don't know how many circulars you are going 
 to issue, what, is to prevent your specifying that you will issue 
 circularsof an uncertain amount and have them put in at so 
 much a page, as they do in other departments. A. I don't 
 understand that there is any provision of law requiring that, and 
 so far as I have any knowledge of the operations of the several 
 departments of the State government, it has never been done. 
 
 Q. Their requisitions show that it has, with some of them at 
 least. A. That is possible, but I was not aware, nor am I now 
 aware that any law provides that the printing which may be 
 required by any particular office during the year, all that may 
 
840 HENRY C. KELSEY. 
 
 not be expressly specified at the time, shall be done at a given 
 rate — at a certain rate. 
 
 Q. Let me read you this act again : 
 (Reads the act as above.) 
 
 Q. Now, do you not know that that law requires you every 
 summer to furnish the election blanks ? A. Yes, sir ; and thie- 
 is what the act says about it : That it shall be the duty of the 
 Secretary of State, at the expense of the State, etc., and to pro- 
 vide a proper list, etc. 
 
 Q. And this gives you the method of providing that. Why 
 do you ignore it ? A. That act was passed long before this was. 
 
 Q. That doesn't matter ; that doesn't repeal it. Why do you 
 ignore this statute and not that one ? Why don't you ignore the 
 act you hold in your hand ? A. This duty is absolutely imposed 
 upon the office. 
 
 Q. So is this duty imposed upon you, in very clear terms. A. 
 I am bound to furnish these blanks at the expense of the State ; 
 there is nothing in the act whatever about contract. 
 
 Q. That is already the law in the act of 1885 ; it has never 
 been repealed. A. It may be. 
 
 Q. Isn't that the most expensive item of printing you do ? A. 
 I think so. 
 
 Q. It amounts to from five to seven thousand dollars a year, 
 doesn't it? A. 1 can't say; the bills are certified to the Comp- 
 troller and paid by the Treasurer ; it is possible. 
 
 Q. Now, I have before me your requisition for this present 
 year of 1895; one for stationery, being for envelopes, paper, 
 blotters, pens, etc. ; the other for blanks. Now, of the election 
 blanks, I see you put in only one, 3,500 election returns of jus- 
 tices of the peace. Why are not the other election blanks, which 
 are more costly, much larger, and which are very numerous, put 
 in? A. \ really can't answer that question. 
 
 Q. Why should you put one in there and omit the rest? A. 
 That is a question which I am unable to answer ; I don't make 
 up that schedule myself at all ; the Assistant Secretary of State 
 makes it up, and makes it up according to his best judgment and 
 knowledge. 
 
 Q. You know of no reason for that discrimination? A. No, I 
 don't. 
 
 Q. You know as a matter of fact that all blanks for election 
 must be obtained? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, in the year 1894 I see a number of requisitions from 
 your ofiice for pens, papers and ink, but no requisition for 
 blanks, if I have examined this paper correctly. Did you not 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 841 
 
 know of a certainty that you would require blanks during the 
 year 1894 ? A. What is the date of the requisition ? 
 
 Q. April, 1894. A. I think so. 
 
 Q. The election blanks were provided annually, were they 
 not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So in the year 1893 there appears to be no requisition for 
 blanks from your office, and I believe that for several years past, 
 if I have examined these correctly, there is no requisition for any 
 blanks for your office ; isn't it true that your office requires more 
 blanks than any other office in the State 2 A. I don't know 
 about that. 
 
 Q. But is there not charged by law upon you the duty of pro- 
 viding blanks in many cases ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And yet you have made no request for any ? A. These 
 election blanks, the law says they shall be provided by the Secre- 
 tary of State at the expense of the State. 
 
 Q. The State will pay it ; there is no doubt about that. It 
 isn't for a moment contended that you must pay for any of these ; 
 but the method of it seems to be so plainly set forth in this act of 
 1885 — don't you know as a matter of fact that this work costs thb 
 State a great deal more than it would if it were given out by 
 contract, as the law provides ? A. No, sir; I don't. 
 
 Q. You don't know that the rates you pay under your method 
 are more than those that are paid under contract? A. I 
 don't; on the contrary, if I should judge by the evidence 
 which has been adduced before this Committee I should say that 
 sometimes they might cost less; I believe it has been shown 
 here that contract work was of a very expensive character indeed. 
 It ought to be well done. 
 
 Q. The duty of taking the census is by the act of 1885, 1 be- 
 lieve, cast upon the office, or the providing of blanks for it ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is that duty being attended to ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 0. That is not being done through the medium of the contract 
 system, is it? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Are the same forms being used that were used ten years 
 ago under the act of 1885 ? A. That I can't say. 
 
 Q. The act hasn't been changed, I believe? A. No; no 
 change in the act, so far as I know. 
 
 Q. That is a matter of very considerable expense, is it not ? 
 A. Yes, sir; and a great deal of work. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Going back to the old matter. 
 You have said substantially that there was a confusion in the 
 various statutes and that you were not requred, in your opinion, 
 
842 HENEY C. KELSEY. 
 
 to pay the moneyB to the State at all; you have said that, sub- 
 stantially. In your statement to-day you say that you have the 
 opinion of three excellent lawyers who conceived your view of 
 the case ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham)— I would like to ask if, at the be- 
 ginning of the period when such confusion might have been in 
 your mind, whether you asked the Attorney-General of the State 
 for his opinion on that matter? A. There was no confusion, 
 Senator, whatever ; my mind was clear about it, and when I pre- 
 sented my accounts to the Comptroller the only exception he 
 made to the account, the only question he raised about the ac- 
 counts, was in regard to the allowance of four thousand dollars, 
 as I have stated in the paper, and as I reiterate. We agreed 
 upon that point ; therelore there was nothing to refer. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You never inquired, then, of the 
 Attorney-General of the State for his opinion, because you felt 
 there was no occasion for it? A. Certainly not; no, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I offer in evidence the requisitions made 
 by the several State officers upon the Comptroller for 
 stationery and blanks for the years 1889 to 1895, inclu- 
 sive. 
 
 I wish to call attention of the Committee to the prac- 
 tice in regard to this matter of blanks and stationery. 
 The Comptroller has a printed form, which he sends to 
 all the State officers ; he has supplied me with this copy : 
 " Dear Sir — You will kindly send to this office sepa- 
 rate statements of stationery and blanks, with sample of 
 each, that will be required for the use ol your office dar- 
 ing the coming year, in compliance with Section 4 of a 
 supplement entitled 'An act relative to public printing,' 
 approved April 7th, 1885. I have the honor to remain, 
 
 very respectfully, (Signed) Comptroller." 
 
 That is sent out to all. Now, as I have said, these 
 requisitions do come in from some State officers ; partial 
 requisitions come in from some, and in some cases there 
 is no requisition at all for blanks. After the contract is 
 given out it has been the practice here, as the bills show 
 which I have already offered in evidence, to proceed 
 and buy what you want, where you please and at what 
 prices you please, irrespective of this law. When the 
 bill comes in to the State from the stationer the Comp- 
 troller doesn't find it upon the contract, and he is 
 naturally slow to audit the bill, and so a little blank 
 form has been devised which you will find all through 
 
HENRY C. KELSEY. 843 
 
 the State House here (we saw it in the State Board of 
 Aeseesors) this Jittle paper which I will show you, and 
 which is used, I dare say, as much as any blank the 
 State ever printed ; this is filled out and attached to the 
 bills : 
 
 "I certify that the necessity for the articles named in 
 the above bill was not known at the time of making 
 requisition for Stationery and Blanks, required to be 
 furnished by contract by an act of the Legislature of 
 1883." (Signed, &c.) 
 
 You will find that form attached to bills for blanks 
 which the law has for many years required the State 
 oflB.cer8 to annually provide. 
 
 Senator SkirtD^And yet the Comptroller audits 
 those bills and pays them ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — They are audited after this certificate is 
 put upon them. You will find that attached within a 
 few days after the work is given out, and you will find 
 it, every month of the year, attached to vouchters. ISTow, 
 it is hardly possible that mere slips of memory on the 
 part of State officers can account for it. It is so fre- 
 quently found upon vouchers in the Comptroller's office 
 that it looks as if there were a persistent effort on the 
 part of some State officers to evade the law of 1883. 
 
 I think, Mr. Chaiman, that in view of theexplicitness 
 of the law of 1883 and 1885 ; in view of the statutory 
 requirements for furnishing blanks; in view of the fact 
 that this certificate is year after year put upon vouchers 
 of the State, and that the State officers continually cer- 
 tify that they do not know and do not anticipate that 
 these things are to be required which the laws relating 
 to their office compel them to furnish, opens a very 
 serious question as to what it all means. I shall adduce 
 some evidence which may throw further light upon it. 
 The amount involved, while not one of the greatest 
 items of State expenditures, is yet a large one ; the 
 character of the practice seems to be serious ; it 
 has too much the appearance of a secret understanding, 
 and it has grown to such a degree, there is more money 
 spent this way than there is spent under the contract 
 system, probably twice or thrice as much. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And of course more money paid for 
 the things than under the contract ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think that will appear also. 
 
844 JOSEPH L. NAAR. 
 
 Joseph L. Naar sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. In Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your business ? A. Printer and publisher, and so 
 on, collateral trades. 
 
 Q. Are you the publisher of the " True American ?" A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And also a job printer ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been engaged in job printing? A. 
 Oh, since I was 21 years of age, and I am 52. 
 
 Q. You have done a great deal of it, haven't you? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. And are an experienced printer? A. So counted. 
 
 Q. Successful printer ? A. I learned the trade as a printer, 
 and I have been a publisher and an employing printer ever since 
 I was 21 years of age. 
 
 Q. What is a fair percentage of profit in job printing? A. 
 Well, I don't know. 
 
 Q. Your 31 years' experience ought to give you some sort of 
 guide. A. I don't know; I don't suppose there is a printing 
 office in the State which bases its profit upon any ascertained or 
 formulated rate of expenses ; you take the stuff as it comes in 
 and you print it, and you charge about what it costs you, and a 
 fair profit. 
 
 Q. What is that fair profit ? A . That I can't say. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — What do you count it, per- 
 sonally 1 A. 1 don't count any percentage. 
 
 Q. You know that you do get a good percentage of profit? 
 A. No, I don't; because the amount is never ascertained ; for in- 
 stance, a man brings in a job and you have to set it up ; you give 
 him a proof, and -the job may be altered, and you take the time 
 to correct it, and you take another proof. 
 
 Q. Well, that is all part of the business ? A. That is part of 
 the business. 
 
 Q. That occurs every day, doesn't it ; you say the true sum is 
 never ascertained ; so you don't know whether you are making 
 or losing on the job? A. You don't take that into account — I 
 don't. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — How did you ever get the estab- 
 lishment you have if there is no profit in the business? A. I 
 got it built up from the newspaper ; I make my newspaper carry 
 the burden ; I run my newspaper for the people, and as such it is 
 respected in the community and supported, and that helps me to 
 
JOSEPH L. NAAR. 845 
 
 carry it on; I don't run my newspaper as an adjunct to a job 
 office. 
 
 Q. That is interesting but not cognate. My question is, about 
 what is a fair percentage of profit for a job printer ? A. 1 can't 
 tell you; if you count upon the expense — 
 
 Q. Upon the cost of the work? A. I know of no way to esti- 
 mate it unless you take the year's results. 
 
 Q. You have got a reputation of being a pretty good business 
 man ? A. Only perhaps in the newspaper business. 
 
 Q. If you did a job of printing you would know about what it 
 would cost you ? ^. As a matter of fact, I do not. 
 
 Q. You know what your men's wages are ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You know what your press-work costs you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q, You know what the ink costs ? A. No, sir; I don't know 
 what my ink costs. 
 
 Q. You know what your plant is worth ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you ought to know, after 31 years, what the deprecia- 
 tion on the plant is. A. Don't hold me responsible for my men- 
 tal deficiencies. 
 
 Q. You don't know at the end of the year whether you have 
 made or lost ? ^. I do know, every quarter. 
 
 Q. I am going to hold you responsible for your mental quali- 
 ities — a man who has built up a newspaper that is so successful. 
 A. If your experience is anything like mine, you will find that 
 mental capacity isn't an inherent quality of a newspaper. 
 
 Q. Your mental deficiency is rather arithmetical than journal- 
 istic? A. To be serious, now, I don't want to evade the tenor of 
 your question. I mean to say this, that in any special individual 
 job the actual cost and the elements of the cost are not computed, 
 except roughly, and there is no percentage added to it. 
 
 Q. Take a whole lot of jobs, all the jobs you do in a year for a 
 house, would 10 per cent, be a fair profit? A. Well, 1 suppose 
 if you got 10 per cent, from everybody upon all the money ex- 
 pended in the material and labor, it might be considered a fair 
 profit ; if a man did a business like a grocery business, where 
 we have our purchases and sales, you could tell what percentage 
 will carry you through. 
 
 Q. 25 per cent, would be a fair profit, wouldn't it, any way ? 
 A. I should suppose so. 
 
 Q. 50 would be more than enough ? A. Possibly. 
 
 Q. And 100 would be rich, wouldn't it? A. It would be con- 
 sidered quite favorable, 
 
 Q. What would you think of 200 per cent. ? ^. I should say 
 
846 JOSEPH L. NAAK. 
 
 that a man was doing a business under conditions which ought 
 to enable him to succeed. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Voorhees) — As a matter of fact, would he suc- 
 ceed in a business in which he was making 200 per cent? 
 A. I don't know. 
 
 Q. "Would he have any patronage at all ? A. It depends on 
 what your line of business is. 
 
 Q. Job printing ? A. It depends on the person and the way 
 in which the work is done ; many people come to the " True 
 American " office and have work done, expensive work done, 
 simply from the fact because, as one man said to me himself, " I 
 don't have to read the proof after you except to discover the er- 
 rors that you point out to me;" that was Mr. Barker Gummere. 
 
 Q. Then you have an efficient proof reader in your establish- 
 ment? A. Sometimes I posed my own mental intellect in that 
 direction. 
 
 Q. That doesn't come very high, does it? A. You can't tell; 
 it is impossible to tell what comes high. 
 
 Q. Did you ever do any printing for the state of Ifew Jersey ? 
 A. I have, for every branch of it. 
 
 Q. Job printing ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ever bid since 1883 on this annual contract of fur- 
 nishing blanks and stationery ? A. Not in any sane moment. 
 
 Q. Did you ever when you were insane? A. I think not. 
 
 Q. Did you ever bid at all? A. I don't know; I think per- 
 haps the first year ; I made an eflort in that direction and got all 
 of it, upon a small margin, and gave it up. 
 
 Q. You bid and got the contract once ? A. On the printing. 
 
 Q. For blanks and stationery ? A. For the stationery. 
 
 ly. Not the blanks? A. I think not. 
 
 Q. You gave it up. Do you mean to say that you have done 
 no blank printing for the State since ? A. Under contract? 
 
 Q. I didn't qualify it in that way. A. No ; I have done print- 
 ing of blanks for the State of New Jersey, for every department 
 of it, at the request of every officer, to whom my bill has always 
 been presented for verification of the fact that the work was 
 done, and it has been. 
 
 Q. You see you are answering a good many more questions 
 than we are asking. A. My mind runs along; I am somewhat 
 charged up. 
 
 Q. You haven't done any then except on that one occasion 
 under contract? A. I think that was the stationery contract. 
 
 Q. And that was all the contract work you have done ? A. 
 
• JOSEPH L. NAAR. 847 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; and I can explain that to you if there is anything 
 to be based upon it. 
 
 Q. Fo ; I only want to know about work done since that time ? 
 A. Yes. 
 
 Q. ITow, some 22 years ago — have yoa continued annually to 
 ofter your services in the way of printing blanks for the State ? 
 A. Hardly that. 
 
 Q. Your services have been sought after 2 A. I have held my 
 services at the command of the officers of the State. 
 
 Q. You have done printing? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Others have bid ? A. Other printers have bid; yes, sir; I 
 assume so. 
 
 Q. And has there been enough left that didn't go under the 
 contract to give you some work every time ? A. Well, I don't 
 know whether that is exactly a fair statement of it or not. I 
 have been, while this work was being done, called upon to do 
 work, and I have done it. 
 
 Q. Haven't you done rather more of this blank printing work 
 than any other printer in New Jersey, even though you haven't 
 bid? A. I assume that; that is, more of the State work; I 
 assume so. 
 
 Q. Well, how did you manage to get more than anybody else, 
 although you ignored the contract system entirely. A. I pre- 
 sume, according to the necessities of the State and to the turn 
 which these people, some of them, had had in my direction for 
 years; I don't know any other reason. 
 
 Q. You can make more without bidding than you can with 
 bidding, can't you? A. I am certain that I wouldn't bid, because 
 I couldn't make anything out of it, and I know I have made 
 money upon the work I have done. 
 
 Q. It was more profitable for you to refrain from bidding, and 
 getting what you could outside, than to bid? A. Yes, sir; but 
 the two don't run together; I haven't refrained from bidding 
 because I could have made more outside of it. 
 
 Q. Haven't you said a good many times you didn't bid because 
 you could make more without bidding ? A. 1 think not. 
 
 Q. Substantially in that form ? A. 1 think not. 
 
 Q. Is it true ? A. I doubt it. 
 
 Q. You think you could have made more by bidding ? A. No ; 
 I don't say that, but I don't say that I ever staid out. I have 
 said that I wouldn't bid because the thing had been cut to death, 
 and I wouldn't go into it ; I would not take the labor to make 
 up the contracts that these people make for what they get out of it. 
 
848 EDWARD FITZGEOEGE, * 
 
 Q. Have you any data to go by to determine whether you have 
 made or lost money on the printing you have done for the State ? 
 A. I should say, without any figures for it, that I have made. I 
 estimate upon the figures of my business, in which that is not 
 the whole support ; the State isn't the only person for whom I 
 do printing, by a great deal. 
 
 Q. You think you have made ? J.. I know I have made. 
 
 Edward Fitzgore sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside? A. Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your business ? A. Printer. 
 
 Q. Do you do job printing? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been in that occupation ? A. Since 
 1870 ; twenty-five years. 
 
 Q. You are yourself a master printer, are you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show you a list of the corporations of 'New Jersey from 
 1846 to 1888, printed by Naar, Day and Naar in 1891. Have 
 you examined that pamphlet? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you carefully counted the amount of matter in it and 
 made an estimate of the value of that book and the cost of print- 
 ing it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The edition which was printed is one thousand copies. Did 
 you estimate on that number? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How do job printers in Trenton pay their printers, by the 
 piece or by the week ? A. By the week. 
 
 Q. Is all job printing done in Trenton by the week? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. That is the uniform custom, is it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is the price of wages per week ? A. $14. 
 
 Q. How many hours of labor is that ? A. 55 hours. 
 
 Q. Now look at that book and tell me the result of your calcu- 
 lation ; tell me first what it would cost in Trenton to print one 
 thousand copies of that book in that style and quality — the cost 
 without any profit? J.. $468.17. 
 
 Q. What is a fair and usual profit for printers to obtain in 
 their business of job printing — what do they expect ? A. There 
 isn't an exact profit. 
 
 Q. What is a good-sized one ? A. Thirty-three and one-third 
 per cent, is a good profit. 
 
 Q. That is as much as you expect to realize? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Add 33^ per cent, profit to your figures ? A. $156.02. 
 
 Q. That makes a total of— A. $624.19. 
 
EDWARD FITZGEORGE. 849 
 
 Q. The State paid for that book, as is shown by voucher we 
 put iD, $1,777.47, or a profit of 277 per cent. Look at the one 
 published in 1890 by Naar, Day & Naar, being the list of 1889; 
 -what would it cost to make 1,000 copies of that book; it has 42 
 pages, or 44? A. Net cost, |102. 
 
 §. "What is yo\ir profit on it ? A. Thirty-three and one-third 
 per cent., $34; total, $136. 
 
 Q. The State paid for that $351, or a profit of about 250 per 
 cent. Look at the list of corporations of 1890, 58 pages; what 
 would it cost to print 1,000 copies ? A. $150. 
 
 Q. And your profit? A. Thirty-three and one-third per cent., 
 f 50 ; total, $200. 
 
 Q. The State paid $526 for that, or 251 per cent, profit. Look 
 at the annual list for the year 1892; what is the cost of printing 
 that pamphlet — two thousand copies? A. $298.40; 33J per 
 cent, profit, $99.46 ; total, $897.86. 
 
 Q. The State paid $1,064.45, or a profit of 257 per cent. ; look 
 at the list for 1893, being this pamphlet of fifty odd pages, of 
 which 850 copies were printed ; what is the cost of printing that ? 
 A. $243.20; profit, $81.07; total, $324.27. 
 
 §. The State paid $951.86, or 290 per cent, profit. 
 
 Q. Now, Ibok at this larger book, being the list of corporations 
 from 1846 to 1891, inclusive, having some 290 pages; what is the 
 cost of printing that book ? A. $1,259.70; profit, $419.90; total, 
 $1,679.60. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— The State paid $4,685 for that book, or 
 272 per cent, profit, or more than $3,000 in addition to 
 the 33J per cent. 
 
 The total cost of printing these books, Mr. Chairman, 
 according to this witness' testimony, was $2,530.47; the 
 State paid $9,397, or an average of 268 per cent, profit 
 on the work ; at 33J per cent, profit the bill would have 
 been about $3,300 instead of $9,300. 
 
 §. Did you compare these figures that were charged with the 
 contract figures for these several items? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How did the prices paid by contract compare with the 
 prices charged on these bills ? A. "Well, the 33J per cent, is a 
 little low. 
 
 Q. The contract work then had something more than 33J per 
 cent, profit in it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. About how much profit ? A. I would like to state right 
 here that this work is what the printer calls " phat " work ; you 
 take the regular run of book work and 33J per cent, is a fair 
 profit, but when it comes to table work, which a printer always 
 
 54 SH 
 
850 EDWAED FITZGEOEGE. 
 
 calls "phat," a man can make often times three times and four 
 times as much as he can by setting the plain matter. 
 
 Q. In the first place, this book is all tables ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And it is all charged double rates for that? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Let me call your attention to another matter. Do you find 
 this leaded ? A. I find it " slugged," as we call it in the printing 
 business. 
 
 Q. So that there are but few lines of printing on a page ? A. 
 A blank line goes between each line. 
 
 Q. And how about these blank spaces of printing ; I see that 
 a single line is printed only about half way across ; does that 
 relieve the work also ? A. Much less time is consumed in setting 
 it up. 
 
 Q. In estimating this, how much have you estimated that a 
 man could set up in a day ? A. One page. 
 
 Q. Couldn't you set more than that? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Couldn't you set two? A. S'o; I won't say that. 
 Q. But you have given them the benefit of the supposition 
 that a man could only set one page a day? A. That is the way 
 I figured it. 
 
 Q. That isn't a very big day's work? A. It isn't an extra 
 day's work; no, sir; I could do more of it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Is that work more difficult than the 
 ordinary work ? A. Yes, sir ; it is paid double for. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Difficult as it is, the Senators will 
 remember the testimony with regard to the German 
 printing, that all the printers want this tabular work, 
 and the testimony was that this difficult tabular work 
 had a great profit in it ; because, in the first place, you 
 get double prices for it, and as Mr. Fitzgeorge has 
 stated, there is " fat " in it ; and you will see, also, that 
 the headings run along the same. 
 
 Witness — The printer gets more for setting that than 
 he does for setting ordinary matter. 
 Q. Not by the week? A. He gets the same money. 
 Q. Now, I see this work charged by the thousand ems; do 
 you observe what it was charged by the thousand ems ? A. 75 
 cents. 
 
 Q. -Now, suppose that it is set up at $14 a week, and the job 
 printer gets his 75 cents a thousand ems, as Mr. Naar did in this 
 case, how much does he make on every day's labor of the com- 
 positor. A. Ten dollars a day. 
 
 Q. That is, every man who works on that book setting the 
 
EDWARD FIIZGEORaE. 861 
 
 type earns for his employer out of his wages ten dollars a day ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 §. If the employer charges the State at the rate Mr. Naar has 
 charged here? A. Yes, sir; it foots up between $12 and $13; 
 and the man who sets it up gets $2.55 a day. 
 
 Q. To put it in another form, Naar, Day and Naar got between 
 $12 and $13 a page for setting that book up, if they hired their 
 men as others do, and to set that book up it cost them two dol- 
 lars and a traction? A. Yes, sir; providing the men set a page 
 a day, and that is a fair average I should say for a day's work : the 
 price, 75 cents, of course is high ; there is no question about that; 
 the contract price on the State reports ot the same kind has been 
 as low as 1\\ cents, I guess. 
 
 Q. About thirty is the average of the contracts ? A. Some- 
 where around that, but the school report, which is the same thing 
 almost, they have done for 21J cents. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then at that contract priue what 
 would that page cost them to set it up? A. It costs them $2.55, 
 of course a trifle more for proof reading; they have to be very 
 careful with it ; it takes a little time. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — In your calculation you have esti- 
 mated that proof reading ? A. Yes, sir; now, if a person was 
 setting that up and every line was solid all the way across it 
 would take twice as long to set one page ; I will not say twice as 
 long. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — It would take a longer time? A. 
 Yes, sir ; a great deal longer time to do it ; but if that was set 
 up solid there would be only a day's work in the solid. 
 
 Q. If that book had been given out by eontract that year at 
 the same rates other contract work was done, what would it have 
 cost the State ? A. \ don't know the prices at that time ; it has 
 been done as low as 21 cents. 
 
 Q. 30 cents you will find it is, and a good many times about 
 26 ? A. There are 8,700 I think in a page ; that would be at the 
 rate of $2.61 to pay the compositor or to pay the contractor. 
 
 Q. And what did the State pay for this one ? A. The State 
 paid between $12 and $13 for the composition; take it at 21| 
 cents a thousand, that brings it considerably lower. 
 
 <2. Well, if it had been given out by contract under those 
 figures the book would have cost less than half what it did cost ? 
 A. Yes, sir : it is a very fat book ; you don't often get matter of 
 that kind to set up ; it is a very " fat " book ; of course there is a 
 " pick up " on each page — on every two pages — one-fifth or one- 
 sixth of the copy used every time. 
 
852 EDWAKD FITZGEOEGE. 
 
 Q. From your examination of it, have you any doubt in your 
 mind whether the man who printed that made a profit or a loss 
 on the job ; Mr. Naar doesn't seem to be quite clear ? A. No, 
 sir; if a compositor was working on that at the regular price, 
 he himself would make a very nice sum each week on it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— How so if he gets $14 a week ? A. 
 Providing he worked by the piece, at the uniform rates — the 
 uniform rates are 35 cents a thousand. 
 
 Q. But job work isn't done that way ? ^. No ; it couldn't be 
 done that way because of the intricacy ; there are so many kinds 
 of work to be done. 
 Recess. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In opening the matter of the printing 
 and stationery and advertising at a previous meeting of 
 the Committee, I laid before the Committee some 
 figures giving the total of these expenses lor the past 
 few years. For the year 1891, the total, as appears 
 from the face of the accounts, expended by the State 
 for this purpose, was $174,694, and in 1892, $177,998; 
 in 1893, $186,938, and in 1894, $191,835. At that time 
 I further stated to the Committee that there were 
 stationery and printing that did not appear on the face 
 of these accounts at all, and I hazarded the statement 
 that the entire expenditure of these items, if the truth 
 were known, was not less than $200,000, but rather 
 more. I call your attention now to the fact that these 
 bills which I ofl^ered this morning, paid by the Secretary 
 of State to the firm of Naar, Day & Naar, do not any- 
 where appear in the State's accounts. The Treasurer's 
 report contains no reference to them, nor the Comp- 
 troller's accounts nor any other publication which you 
 can find. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Why should they not ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — For the very reason that Mr. Kelsey has 
 expended the moneys in a way that is irregular and 
 unusual, and outside of the ordinary system of the 
 finances of the State. This aflords a good illustration 
 of- what would happen if these irregular and unusual 
 practices are allowed to extend ; nobody could tell you 
 what the State would be paying for any particular kind 
 of expense. For example, that one printed pamphlet I 
 showed you this morning cost the State of New Jersey 
 
FEINTING AND STATIONERY. 853 
 
 $4,680, and yet the expense nowhere appears in the 
 public accounts. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — You said there was no record of 
 that. Where did you get that record ? 
 
 Mr. Corbiu — The law is, as Mr. Kelsey has admin- 
 istered it, that from the moneys that come to his hands 
 he reserves what he finds it necessary to expend and 
 expends it among his own private funds; in other 
 words, out of his private funds in the Mechanics Bank; 
 he is administering the affairs of the government with- 
 out keeping any public record of the details. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Then do you get this amount 
 from his private account ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I got it exactly so. 
 
 Senator Skirm — It should really appear in the Comp- 
 troller's and Treasurer's account, like any other item 
 paid by the State. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It should, of course, under any sound 
 system of financial management. The only reference to 
 it is to be found in the voucher which he returns with 
 his annual statement; he says, "I collected from all 
 these sources last year |1 30,000, and I have taken out of 
 it for expenses $8,000," or whatever it was. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Supposing, with a dishonest man as 
 Secretary of State — which, of course, there are no 
 charges against Mr. Kelsey — but suppose with a dis- 
 honest man, he might run that $8,000 or $80,000. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is no limit whatever to it. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — How is that amount made up at 
 the end of the year ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These returns of Mr. Kelsey show that 
 at the end of the year he has certified to the Comptroller 
 that during the year he has received from all corpora- 
 tions, say $130,000, without the details; just simply one 
 line, and in the next line that he has spent out of that, 
 say $8,000, and he hands in the balance, say $122,000. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — He had a series of books here two 
 weeks ago ; did your helpers here add them up to see 
 whether the $130,000 corresponded with this ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, sir ; we haven't made any examina- 
 tion of the books. 
 
 Senator Daly — The Comptroller should do that ; that 
 is his duty. 
 
854 PRINTING AND STATI'^NEEY. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The trouble is, that the Comptroller, 
 apparently, hasn't controlled for the past fifteen years ; 
 he has apparently taken everything for granted and 
 simply signed his name. 
 
 Senator Daly — "Well, we can try this one. 
 
 Senator Skirm — This one is all right. 
 
 Senator Daly — Well, we will see. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think Senator Daly's suggestion has 
 weight. One of the sections of the Comptroller's act 
 does say that it shall be the duty of the Comptroller to 
 examine and audit the accounts of all the officers who 
 have authority to collect revenues of the State, and to 
 himself institute and prosecute proceedings against those 
 who are delinquent in paying them over ; it is his duty 
 to keep an eye upon it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I think the remedy will be at the 
 meeting of the Legislature on June 4tb, to particularize 
 and specify this law that the Comptroller and other 
 State officers may know their duty. 
 
 Senator Daly — The ignorance of the law does not ex- 
 cuse them. 
 
 Seoator Skirm — It seems to have done so. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I was directing more particular attention 
 to the law itself, which allows such expenditure of 
 moneys by the Secretary of State. No officer should 
 be allowed to expend State moneys as he sees fit, and 
 in a way which leaves no public record. Moneys ought 
 to be paid only on warrant of the Comptroller. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The law permits that, does it not? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It has been so construed ; the law would 
 permit it to be paid by the Comptroller, too, if there 
 was a disposition on the part of the State officers to do 
 the business in that way — there is plenty of law for it. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Does more than one department 
 follow that way of spending money ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No ; I don't know of any other case. 
 The lunatic asylums draw their money in lump sums, 
 and, I think, also the Reform School; they draw it 
 quarterly, a lump sum ; out of that they expend for all 
 sorts of purposes; I have no doubt they do some print- 
 ing and buy some stationery. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But right there, these institutions are 
 controlled by a board of managers or commissioners or 
 trustees or directors, one or the other, and they, of 
 
PEISTING ANO , STATIONBEY. 855 
 
 course, must audit these bills, and do — I know, in the 
 case of one institution or two or three, that these bills 
 are audited by the committees, and there is some su- 
 pervision of the accounts. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Certainly ; that system has taken very 
 deep root in our aflairs in New Jersey ; that is, when a 
 board is put in charge of an eleemosynary institution 
 they are given their money quarterly, and they are held 
 responsible for its proper expenditure. 
 
 At first sight it might seem that it would be better 
 to have all those details go through the Comptroller's 
 office, but probably the established method is the wisest 
 and most economical way. It is impossible for the 
 Comptroller's office, or any other office, to enter into 
 every detail of the vast affairs of the State government, 
 and probably it is better to put the money in the hands 
 of a board, and hold them responsible; but this is quite 
 a different thing; here is a State officer, right in the 
 State House; his office should follow the usual methods 
 of doing business, of course, and I think, if the Com- 
 mittee will allow me the suggestion, that his employes 
 should, in future, be paid as others are, by the warrant of 
 the State; that the expenditures to be made there should 
 be drawn from the treasury. The putting of our funds 
 into the private pocket-book or private bank account of 
 any man, to be spent by him, seems to me highly 
 improper and unbusiness-like ; and I have drawn atten- 
 tion to it with the view of its correction by the Legisla- 
 ture. 
 
 Now, you will observe, in the year 1892, there was 
 paid out for the printing of this pamphlet, nearly $5,000, 
 in one single item ; you add that to these expenditures 
 I have mentioned for the printing and stationery, and 
 you will see already that I have nearly accounted for 
 my $200,000, which I prophesied these items cost; and 
 when you take into account the expenditures of the 
 Boards, there is no doubt that these expenditures have 
 run above $200,000. In this present year, 1895, in view 
 of the great cost of the printing of the laws, which has 
 outrun all expectations, it will go very much above 
 $200,000. The printing of the laws this year will prob- 
 ably cost from $130,000 to $140,000 under the present 
 system. 
 
 Senator Daly — Is that in excess of last year ? 
 
856 PRINTING AND STATIONERY. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir; last year was $85,000. 
 
 Senator Skirm — A great many more laws and more 
 newspapers. 
 
 Senator Daly — This was a year of economy, yoa 
 know. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think you helped make a 
 good many of the laws. 
 
 Senator Daly — But you, gentlemen, must bear the 
 burden. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But you voted for most of the bills? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, to take up one branch of this 
 matter of printing and stationery, and that is this mat- 
 ter of annual contract, the Committee will see by a 
 glance at the Comptroller's report, that that system, as 
 the State officers have administered it, has broken down, 
 and for the very reason that I stated this morning ; the 
 officers of the government do not make requisitions for 
 the full amount of what they will want. The most 
 expensive printing is not returned, as Mr, Kelsey 
 admitted — that is, the election blanks and such things 
 as that; and you will find, running all through these 
 thirty odd accounts or statements of the Treasurer's 
 reports for printing blanks and stationery, most of which 
 could be foreseen, that they are not there. Now, for 
 example, I have in my hands a schedule of the station- 
 ery, blanks and printing done by Naar, Day & Naar,. 
 which he has testified to you was not done under con- 
 tract, and you will find that this firm alone has rendered 
 bills running from .$15,000 to |20,000 a year — more than 
 all the contracts given out for such work, twice over ; 
 only a small part of it is really given out by contract. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And mostly by the office of th3 Sec- 
 retary of State. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is, too, stationery and postage 
 charged in that account; it runs, $4,690, $4,290, $4,300, 
 $7,100; then the court expenses, which runs from a 
 thousand to sixteen hundred dollars a year, and not 
 charged to printing, where you would expect to find it; 
 these bills run up from $5,000 to $7,500 a year. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I presume the Attorney-G-eneral is 
 the law officer of the State ; why should there be any 
 expenses to other lawyers when the Attorney-General 
 has been drawing immense amounts of money from the 
 State for the last eight or ten years, not only with his 
 
PRINTING AND STATIONERY, 857 
 
 own salary, but with fees and expenses to other lawyers ; 
 why should the Secretary of State employ anybody else 
 except the Attorney- Greneral? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This legal expense which I speak of 
 now is printing ; there is an account in the Comp- 
 troller's office called " legal expense account," and these 
 bills are ISTaar, Day & ISTaar's bills for the printing of 
 that department. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Who printed the pamphlet of the 
 election laws ; is that included in that bill ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Naar, Day & Naar did that, I think. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Who settles upon the amount of 
 each of these to be printed ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — You will observe under the present 
 system Mr. Kelsey does the whole thing by private 
 management. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — In Essex county we have 128 
 election districts, and I was informed we got 7,000 
 copies of this election law, when 1,000 is ample. 
 
 Senator Daly — They need instruction up there. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Not any more than they do in 
 Hudson. 
 
 Senator Daly — They don't need any instruction there. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Not in the manipulation of elections, no. 
 
 This printing of stationery goes on, legal expense 
 $200 to $500 ; one year $1,900 ; the militia, $200 or $300 ; 
 advertising, that means printing the laws — that of 
 course goes to every newspaper ; advertising, $800 or 
 $900 a year ; State Board of Health a little ; State 
 House expense a little ; State Board of Assessors' bills, 
 several hundred dollars per year; incidentals, a matter 
 of a thousand or two thousand a year ; this is all from 
 the face of the printed reports of the State Treasurer. 
 In 1890 the bills were $16,861; in 1891, $13,514; in 
 1892, $15,519; in 1893, $18,664; in 1894, $14,160; to 
 that must be added the bills exhibited this morning 
 through the Secretary of State's office, and other bills 
 which do not appear upon the surface of the reports. 
 
 Probably it would not be much out of the way to say 
 that the bills of the firm of ISTaar, Day & Naar alone 
 were $20,000 a year for work done outside of the con- 
 tract for stationery and printing. If the ratio of profit 
 is similar to that of which we have had evidence, it is 
 easy to see that the State is a very good customer. 
 
858 FEINTING AND STATIONERY. 
 
 Senator Skirm— Didn't I understand Mr. Kelsey to 
 say this morning that the reason this work was done 
 this way was because it was done much better than the 
 current printing was done in 1894? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That does not excuse the violation of the 
 law. The law says it shall be done by contract, and 
 every April the Secretary of State is to make a list of 
 what he will want, and he must anticipate that he wants 
 what the law says he shall get ; and I don't respect that 
 answer very much, wherein he says it might be done 
 better by a certain other printer. There are other 
 printers in this State, and a good many of them who can 
 do work as well as Mr. Naar; but whether that is so or 
 not, the State has decided that the average contract 
 printer is as good as it wants. Now, just look at the 
 position in which this places the State oflScers and 
 printers ; here is a printer the aggregate of whose bills 
 are larger than any other printer who does work for the 
 State. He tells you under oath that he has refrained 
 purposely for twelve years from bidding, and yet, imme- 
 diately after the bidding is given out, he gets the work, 
 and more of it than anybody else. The officers of the 
 government who give it to him certify over their signa- 
 tures that they did not anticipate it was going to be re- 
 quired. 
 
 The bills come in here at double and treble the prices 
 which the work would have cost if included in the con- 
 tract, and year after year that thing goes on, and these 
 ofhcers certify those bills to be correct, and the bills are 
 paid. Now, I want to know from some of my friends 
 who are better versed in criminal law than I am, 
 whether that doesn't constitute criminal conspiracy, to 
 defraud the State on the part of officers and printers 
 who do it. It is so deliberate ; the law is there plainly 
 defining the duty that must be done, and it is delib- 
 erately, habitually and annually disregarded, although 
 their attention is called to it, as I have shown you, by 
 the Comptroller's notice. Moreover, when these requi- 
 sitions come in, a few blanks are included and all the 
 rest left out, showing that the subject must have been 
 in mind; it was not merely overlooked. I consider it 
 a very serious development, and certainly this commit- 
 tee ought to take some step either in the way of a more 
 
FEINTING AND STATIONERY. 859 
 
 stringent statute, or else by taking the matter away 
 from the officers entirely. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — What is the use of talking; 
 the statute is stringent enough. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Shouldn't the Comptroller have de- 
 tected this system and have corrected it, because, as I 
 understand, his power is absolute, and he needn't pay a 
 bill unless he desires to do so, and yet this has gone 
 along here for 15 or 20 years ; the statute says it shall 
 not be done until the Comptroller certifies these bills 
 and orders them paid. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think. Senators, that a fair answer to 
 that is this: Some stationery and some printing may 
 not be anticipated, and it is inevitable that these requisi- 
 tions may come for these things that do not go into the 
 contract. They began to come in a small way, and these 
 certificates were put ou properly in many cases, and 
 then it drifted and drifted until it has got to the length 
 it has, and the Comptroller has, no doubt, settled down 
 upon these certificates. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But if your statement is correct that 
 these bills amount to a great deal more money than the 
 contract printing, shouldn't the Comptroller, since 1891, 
 have discovered that and have corrected it and repudi- 
 ated these bills ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — So far as I have examined, I think the 
 Comptrollers have made a fight over it — all of them ; I 
 think it has been a matter of some friction between 
 them and the other officers of the State ; but there has 
 been this persistent disregard of the law, and the Comp- 
 troller has not gone to the length of absolutely refusing 
 to pay the bills and bringing on a clash. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Of course he has paid the bills, and 
 all the differences have amounted to nothing, and the 
 State pays the Comptroller $6,000 a year, I believe, for 
 the purpose of controlling the finances of the State, 
 and, as I understand, he has the absolute power, as 
 there is no power to sue the State of New Jersey ; he 
 could have rejected these bills, and yet he has simply 
 winked at them since 1891. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It is a good deal earlier than that ; it 
 runs back to 1883. 
 
 Senator Daly — That is right, keep them all in. 
 
860 EDWARD FITZGEOKGE. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I wanted within reason and within 
 bounds. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think, that like most abuses, it is a 
 thing that has grown, probably; but the fault at the 
 outset is in the State officers not making the requisitions. 
 Kow, you understand these blanks which are printed 
 are necessary; they are not improper printing; the 
 fault is in not printing in the manner the law requires, 
 and consequently doing it extravagantly, and making 
 it cost the State a great deal of money. 
 
 Take for instance this matter of elections ; the election 
 blanks must be printed ; they must be sent out in August 
 or September. The Secretary of State must have them 
 ready and he prints them. It would be a pretty serious 
 matter for the Comptroller to refuse payment when 
 these bills come in from the printers, and yet use the 
 blanks in the election. The trouble is that in the April 
 previous the law has been violated, not by the printers, 
 but by State officers, who have withheld their requisitions. 
 Now speaking of the duties of the Comptroller to 
 which Senator Skirm has referred it is well, in character- 
 izing people's acts, to be accurate ; I will read the fifth 
 section of the Comptroller's Act of 1865 : 
 
 " It shall be the duty of the Comptroller to superin- 
 tend the collection of the revenue, to take general charge 
 and supervision of all rights, interests and property of 
 the State, to institute and direct prosecutions against 
 delinquent officers of the revenue, and for just claims 
 and debts due to the State, and to draw all warrants on 
 the Treasurer in favor of such public officers as receive 
 salaries from the State, and for the payment of all 
 moneys directed by law to be paid out of the treasury, 
 and such warrants shall designate the purpose for which 
 they are drawn." 
 
 There are other sections, but this one more particu- 
 larly bears upon this. 
 
 I would like to ask Mr. Fitzgeorge another question 
 or two with reference to this. 
 Q. You examined these pamphlets this morning, have you 
 made an estimate of what they would have cost if they had been 
 given out by contract at the same rates as those fixed in the an- 
 nual contracts? A. I have made one; I didn't have time to do 
 more than one. 
 
 Q. Which one ? A. 1890. 
 
EDWARD FITZGEOEGE. 861 
 
 Q. That was one of the email ones? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. If given out under the contract of that year what would 
 that have cost ? A. The contract price that year was 25 cents a 
 thousand ems; it would have cost that year $156.71. 
 
 Q. I show you your estimate showing the actual cost with 
 profit added was $200 ? A. Yes, sir; but I want to say that this 
 was much " fatter " work; there are lines that run through it; that 
 was not included in the Board of Education work which I fig- 
 ured on. 
 
 Q. The State paid $526.80 ; in other words, a much larger 
 percentage of profit. This contract price for the year 1890, as I 
 understand you, was 25 cents ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 q. Other years it has been 26 and 30 ? A. 21i. 
 Q. But it has generally been more than that ? A. That would 
 bring this price above that. 
 
 Q. You haven't had time to go into the details of these, but 
 generally speaking, if these had all been given out by contract, 
 how much would they have cost in proportion to what they did 
 cost ; would they have cost half as much ? A. No ; I couldn't 
 say what proportion, because this is a little difierent matter. 
 
 Q. But are you safe in saying that they would cost less than 
 half? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Examined by Senator Daly. 
 
 Q. There is one question I would like to ask. Are you en- 
 gaged in the printing business ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you ever put in a bid to do State printing? A. No, 
 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Have you put in a bid to do any kind of printing lor any 
 of the oflaces connected with the State? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. This class of printing that has been done by Mr. Naar, 
 these books — this is fat work ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is not the ordinary job printing work, is it? A. No, 
 
 sir. 
 
 Q. What kind of work would you call it? A. State work, we 
 
 call it, always. 
 
 Q. But it is not within the line of job printing work? A. 
 No, sir ; it is work that I have worked on. 
 
 q. (By Senator Skirm)— Whereabouts did you formerly work ? 
 
 A. Mr. Sharp's. 
 
 Q. And in estimating this class of work have you estimated 
 upon the same principle that you would job work ? A. Book 
 work, yes, sir ; if I was estimating for anybody on the work. 
 
862 EDWARD FITZGEOKGE. 
 
 Q. That was a higher grade of work than job work, and I 
 understood you to say the base of your estimate was job work? 
 A. No; the printer is paid no higher, but it may be superior 
 printers — 
 
 Q. Isn't the paper superior paper ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Isn't the printing matter superior printing ? A, Not as I 
 know of; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Finer printing ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. It appeared to me so by comparison with other printing, 
 that is the reason I asked the question ? J.. I do it every day, 
 that kind. 
 
 Q. I have compared it with some of the other papers, but you 
 consider it a finer grade of work? A. Than what ? 
 
 Q. Than the ordinary job work ? A. Yes, sir ; it is good 
 work; it is well paid and it is done well. 
 
 Q. Well, now, for instance, have you never made as high as 
 150 per cent, in your business ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you never made as high as 200 per cent, in your 
 busintss? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And 250 per cent. ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You didn't think that was exorbitant, did you? A. I 
 thought it was a snap. 
 
 Q. Well, now, do I understand, then, that you characterize 
 it as a snap, that you were dishonest in your prices, or that you 
 were merely extravagant and exorbitant? A. Not at all, the 
 opportunity presented itself and I took it, the same as I would 
 take any other thing. 
 
 Q. At the time you charged that 250 per cent, made out of 
 that work that you were performing that would have been about 
 the same per cent, that other printers would have charged for 
 like work, when you did it? A. Not necessarily. 
 
 Q. Every printer is in competition with the others for the 
 trade, isn't he? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And he makes his price for the purpose of obtaining the 
 work? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And I would believe at that time when you made that price 
 of 250 per cent., or rather made that amount of profit, that that 
 would have been the profit that the trade would have made on 
 the same kind of work ; don't you think so, and that you were 
 not extravagant or exorbitant in your demand? A. I think I 
 was ; the opportunity presented itself and the party wanted the 
 work. 
 
 Q. Wasn't it that class of work that demanded, that profit ; I 
 don't characterize you as a dishonest man ; I think you are a fair 
 
EDWARD FITZGEOEGE. 863 
 
 business man, and I don't think you would willingly do wrong; 
 I mean to say that at the time you made these prices, where the 
 profits you made was 200 per cent, and beyond that, wasn't that 
 the price that was general in the trade for that kind of work that 
 you done ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. What was a fair price that was being exacted by the trade 
 for that character of work 1 A. 1 was glad to get 33J. 
 
 Q. But you got 250 ; I ask you what the trade was demanding 
 at that time for that kind of work ; what profit they were receiv- 
 ing? A. S^l suppose — about that — but then the opportunity 
 presented itself to make a little extra money ; I don't have in my 
 mind any particular occasion, although I know I have done it. 
 
 Q. Does the trade generally govern itself by the opportunity 
 thai is afforded, and is the profit based upon that ? 
 
 A. This is one or two special occasions which I cannot refer 
 to at all now ; it wasn't very often — not often enough. 
 
 Q. You are familiar with the technical term " fat work ; " has 
 that any application to that old principle of frying the fat out? 
 A. I don't know. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That seems to have been the course, 
 according to the evidence this morning. 
 
 Q. For this same kind of work that Mr. N"aar performed for 
 the State — you worked for Mr. Sharp? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Wasn't Mr. Sharp receiving the same prices on an average ? 
 A. No, sir; he was receiving more. 
 
 Q. Then you would call him — that would be double fat work ? 
 A. A double snap, that was. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — It may be a little irrelevant, but was 
 Mr. Sharp a successful printer ? A. No, sir ; he was not. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And, therefore, when he got more 
 money than the work was worth he failed to succeed in business ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And his business dried up and went 
 away from him as it will with every man on that line of extor- 
 tionate charges ? A. I would like to i?ay that at the time I was 
 employed by Mr. Sharp, in 1873, the price per thousand was $1 ; 
 it was the regular price adopted by the State and they paid for 
 all these pamphlets that were done for 21J ; they paid a dollar 
 because that was the current price fixed by the State, but that 
 didn't last but a very short time. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If the Committee will suffer me I will 
 say a word about this printing. It is true, as Mr. Fitz- 
 george has said, that twenty odd years ago the price 
 was a dollar a thousand ems and afterwards seventy- 
 
864 ELECTRIC LIGHTING. 
 
 five cents. These facts that I have brought out to you 
 to-day, that such prices afford 200 or 300 per cent, profit, 
 became known to the Legislature. This matter is not 
 new in Trenton. The enormous abuses that grew up 
 under these printing acts are obvious to any one who 
 looks at these old reports. People who took the print- 
 ing work from the State received it as a great political 
 favor; the newspapers and the printers were named in 
 the bills. You can look in the statute and you will see 
 the names : ISTaar, Day & Naar shall print so many 
 thousand copies of the laws, and so-and-so, of Camden, 
 shall print so many reports, and so-and-so, of Paterson, 
 shall print so many. It was a political bounty. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And went to both parties ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Certainly it did, and it came to such a 
 great abuse that the Legislature took it up in 1883, 
 which is now twelve years ago, and tried to break it up 
 by competition. But the State officers, for these twelve 
 years have more or less thwarted the operation of the 
 prmting law in the way I have told you. Because 
 these abuses have existed in the past and the State has 
 been charged two or three prices, is that a reason why 
 these abuses should be continued — isn't it an added rea- 
 son for now ending them? It is perfectly true that 
 these old prices of seventy-five cents a thousand are 
 found on the statute book, but the act of 1883 was an 
 efiort on the part of the Legislature, which has not yet 
 proved wholly successful, to break up this abuse. 
 
 Is it not fair that the State of New Jersey, which is 
 absolutely good pay and prompt pay — these bills will 
 show that they are paid in advance many times — 
 whether they should not be able to go to any printing 
 office in the State and get a job of printing done as 
 cheap as any member of this Committee can get it, and 
 yet no one of these printers would have the effrontery 
 to charge you these prices. Every lawyer in this room, 
 who has printing done, knows that he would not con- 
 sider a proposition to print for $10 or $15 a page for 
 one instant. 
 
 ELECTRIC LIGHTING. 
 
 I have another matter which I will present briefly to 
 the Committee, and will then ask an adjournment for 
 the day. It is in regard to some of the charges respect- 
 
CAKL F. ADAMS. 865 
 
 ing the plant of the electric lighting in this Capitol. 
 The contract was given out in 1891, in the spring, for 
 putting in certain electric light plant for some $22,800. 
 Another one was given out a little later for $9,000 
 njore, for certain fixtures. Both were given out to the 
 Edison Electric Company; when the bills came in, 
 additional items were added to the bills as extra work 
 under the contracts and for supplies and additions of 
 one sort and another; I believe the whole thing has 
 cost the State somewhere between $45,000 and $50,000 
 up to the present moment for what you see in the 
 building, and it ran on up to 1894, at several thousand 
 dollars a year, for supplies and some globes and fixtures. 
 Last year the entire expense was only a matter of $29, 
 but it had been $3,000 or $4,000 a year before, includ- 
 ing lamps added from time to time. 
 
 I haven't had time to thoroughly go to the bottom of 
 this business, but there is, on the surface of it, some 
 evidence that looks as if 25 per cent, had been added 
 to the bills by somebody. When these things are 
 charged at or above the printed list prices, from which 
 the usual deduction is 50 per cent., it is pretty evident 
 that there has been a mistake in making out the bills, 
 and on one of them a deduction of 25 per cent. " com- 
 mission " has been taken oft', evidently by an error. 
 On others it has not been taken ofi". There are some 
 other matters in connection with it; some of these 
 things have been paid for twice. 
 
 I regret that I have not had time to perform the great 
 amount of labor necessary to thoroughly investigate a 
 subject like this. There are indications in it which I 
 should like to have the time and the opportunity to fol- 
 low out, but I can only give you a few hints of what 
 this subject contains; and I may say here that I have 
 met with the same experience with regard to a number 
 of these matters that have been taken up. The labor 
 to unearth the details is very great, and the time is 
 simply insufficient to enable counsel to discover every- 
 thing that might be discovered if we had the time. 
 
 Carl F. Adams, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. "What is your residence ? A. Trenton. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? Electrical engineer. 
 
866 CARL F. ADAMS. 
 
 Q. How long have you been an electrical engineer? A. For 
 the last seven years. 
 
 Q. Are you accustomed to putting in electric apparatus ? A, 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And installing plants ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And furnishing supplies ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you examined these contracts and vouchers for the 
 electric light plant in the State House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The first contract is May 25, 1891, with the Edison General 
 Electric Co.; it is a long contract with specifications, for $22,899, 
 and the details. The next contract is for certain chandeliers, 
 $9,000, awarded August 18, 1891. There seems to have been a 
 little trouble about the bids, and the Governor appears to have 
 referred it to certain officers in the State House who made a re- 
 port, " Trenton, August 18, 1891, to Hon. Leon Abbett, Governor 
 of IT. J. We the undersigned, committee appointed by you to 
 examine the bids and designs presented for electric and gas fix- 
 tures for the State House respectfully report that after a careful 
 examination of all the designs and bids presented, and after hearing 
 all the parties interested, we respectfully recommed that the con- 
 tract for the fixtures be awarded to the Edison General Electric 
 Company for the amount of their bid, to wit, $9,000, which was 
 the amount of the lowest bid received, the Archer Pancost Com- 
 pany, having likewise bid for |9,000. William C. Heppenheimer, 
 Comptroller; B. J. Ford, Superintendent; James Moylan, Arch- 
 itect." That was the committee to whom the matter appears to 
 have been referred. "Approved, Leon Abbett, Governor, August, 
 1891." Those two contracts form the basis of what followed in 
 the supplying of the electric plant. The whole charge ran very 
 much above that — about $46,000. I desire to call attention to a 
 few items only. Have you examined voucher 1,768 ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 q. For $313.77? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Being voucher of March, 1892, paid as extra work. Is that 
 in the contract? A. ISTo, sir; that bill ought to have been paid 
 by the Edison Company. 
 
 Q. That is what I asked you, whether it is not included in the 
 Edison Company contract ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is that for? A. Mason work; they were to do all 
 preparation work except the carpenter work. 
 
 Q. Look at voucher 2987 for the motor circuit, $395 ; what is 
 the list price of that ? A. This was work done. 
 
 Qif Have you put down the price of the work ? A. Yes, sir ; 
 
CARL F. ADAMS. 867 
 
 that work could have been done with a profit of 40 or 50 per 
 cent., for $300. 
 
 Q. What is the charge? A. $395.85. 
 
 Q. An over charge of at least $95.85 there ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Refer to the item in that same voucher of $225.55; have 
 you got that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. For 22 extra lights ; what are they charged at here in the 
 bill? A. $225.55. 
 
 Q. And at the price charged in the bill? A. It figures out 
 about $10 a light. 
 
 Q. What do the specifications for that work say are to be 
 charged for extra lights? A. In case any additional lamps are 
 required, the price of each additional lamp is to be $4; that is 
 the list price. 
 
 Q. Those are charged at $10 in the bill, although the contract 
 says they shall be charged at four. Now refer to voucher 2891, 
 an item of $199; the list price is $210; what is the usual dis- 
 count on the list price? A. 50 per cent. 
 
 Q. They are charged at $210? A. No, they are charged at 
 $199. 
 
 Q. Overcharging how much? A. About $64. 
 
 Q. And the next item, voucher 3295, an item of $195; list 
 price, $210? J. That is about $60 overcharge; list, $210; dis- 
 count, 50 off, and the retail price is $135 — an overcharge of $60. 
 
 Q. The next item in the same bill, $394.50? A. The list is 
 $434; discount 50 off, the retail price would be $285; over- 
 charge, $109.50. 
 
 Q. 2964 is the next voucher ; look at that ? A. This is a bill 
 for one 6 K W., charged at $600 ; the list is $600 ; discount 50 ; 
 you can see there is about $180 overcharge. 
 
 Q. That is, $420 would be a full price ? A. Yes, sir. Now, 
 in addition to this bill here, there are three other bills for erecting 
 and wiring, etc. 
 
 Q. Those are the smaller bills following ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. $70.33, $14.60 and $420 would be a full price for that lot ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And charged at — A. $650 altogether. 
 
 Q. The next voucher, 3292, item $1,985 ? A. That is to install 
 one 20 K-W dynamo engine, &c., $1,985. A. A good price 
 would be about $1,775. 
 
 Q. It is overcharged there ? A. About $210. 
 
 Q. Now look at bill No. 859. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I call the attention of the Committee to 
 this bill; it is the bill of January, 1894; the first bill 
 
868 GAEL F. ADAMS. 
 
 is a small one of |82.60 and a commission of $20.45, 25 
 per cent, shown on it. 
 q. They sent the bill in first of $82.60 and somebody might 
 have referred to it and they sent afterwards and deducted the 25 
 per cent. off. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — You will find these bills according to 
 this witness's prices had just about 25 per cent, added; 
 this one has got the 25 per cent, taken ofi[; it doesn't 
 state for whom or by whom, or how or why, but there 
 is 25 per cent, deducted from the face of it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That was just before the meeting of 
 the Legislature of 1894, when they barred the door. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It seems to have been an inadvertence 
 on somebody's part. 
 Q. Have you made an estimate on these fixtures which were 
 contracted for at $9,000 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you gone over them and examined them carefully? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What would be a full price for them with the 40 or 50 per 
 cent, profit added ? A. About $7,500. 
 
 Q. $1,500 overcharged in that? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These items that I have selected or that 
 the witness has selected, amount to $10,747 ; the over- 
 charge on them according to his figures is $2,309. The 
 large contract, which is the principal part, has not been 
 gone into. The Committee will observe that these are 
 goods for which there are printed list prices with fixed 
 discounts. 
 Q. Mr. Adams, did you ever do any work in the State House 
 in an electrical way? A. Never. 
 
 Q. Were you on one occasion approached by somebody from 
 the State House to do some? A. It was about a year ago, I sup- 
 pose, a fellow came down and wanted me to make some prices. 
 Q. Was it while these fixtures were yet being put in ? A. It 
 was for the brackets which are in the passage way. 
 
 Q. What prices did you give him? A. Well, I quoted him a 
 fair price. 
 
 Q. What was the price you named? A. $6.50 apiece. 
 Q. What did he say? A. He said "can't sell them for this 
 price; you can sell them a little higher;" he said "we got some 
 bills in here already for the same kind of fixtures which cost a 
 little more;" I says, " well — " 
 
 Q. Did he say how much more ? A. He said " make it $8.50." 
 
CARL F. ADAMS. 869 
 
 Q. Did he tell you you could have the job if you would make 
 it $8.50? A. Yes, sir; and I said no, I wouldn't do it. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You wouldn't take it? A. No, sir; I 
 told them I would sell them to him and he could do what he 
 pleased. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— But you wouldn't take the |8.50 ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — You mean to say that you asked him 
 $6.50 and he oft'ered you $8.50 and you declined to take it ? A.l 
 refused it, yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did he say that he had been paying $8.50 for them? 
 A. Thai is what he said; I told him I would sell them to him if 
 he wanted to give me $8.50 for them himself, he could have them, 
 but I wouldn't sell them to the State for $8.50. 
 Q. Was $6.50 the full price ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Did you get the job? A, No, sir. 
 Q. They were put in by somebody else ? A. I suppose so. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— Why didn't you get it ? A. Well, I 
 don't know. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think it is pretty plain, if a man wants 
 to do business that way, that was the opportunity. 
 
 Senator Daly — The Senator from Mercer is anxious to 
 show that there was one honest man in Trenton. 
 Q.. (By Senator Skirm) — Who was the party who made you 
 that o.fter? A. I didn't know him. 
 
 Q. Have you tried to identify him in the State House? A. If 
 I ever was to see him, I am not afraid to show him up. 
 
 Q. Do you know what office he was employed in ? A. I don't 
 know. 
 
 Q. What kind of looking man was he ? A. Big stout fellow ; 
 if I see him, I will know him. 
 
 Q. This was while there were fixtures yet being put into the 
 State House? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— I would like the gentleman to be a 
 little more specific, as to the time ; a year ago was the middle of 
 May, and last year — 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The bills show there were no fixtures 
 put in then. 
 Q. Wasn't it nearer two years ago ? A. No, about a year. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I am a little anxious about the date, 
 because in April some time, it seems, that the adminis- 
 tration of this building changed, about a year ago, and 
 I am anxious to know whether this was under the new 
 administration or under the old. 
 
870 CAEX F. ADAMS. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I can only say to you that toward the 
 end of the last fiscal year, under the change of adminis- 
 tration, the entire cost of electric supplies for the year 
 was $26.40, against about $3,900 expended for supplies 
 and lamps, the year before. 
 Q. If you can find that man or can identify uim, let us know ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm— Senator Ketcham states that the cus- 
 todian bill last year was not passed until late in May, 
 and therefore there was no change in the custodian until 
 afcer May. I wanted to release the present custodian 
 from any suspicion that he had been trying to get ad- 
 ditional prices on these goods. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Mr. Chairman, I am scarcely good 
 enough book-keeper to explain the commission business 
 in this bill ; it is the bill of December, 1893, to the 
 State of JSTevv Jersey for sundry electric light fixtures 
 182.60, and then in red ink is deducted a commission 
 of $20.45, leaving net $62.15. Bat another bill or 
 credit memorandum accompanies it, C4eneral Electric 
 Co. to B.J. Ford, Superintendent, for commission twen- 
 ty-five per cent, on sale of the following fixtures to the 
 State House, bill No. 4324, naming the fixtures, com- 
 mission on $82.60, $20.45. 
 
 Senator Herbert — It appears that the State paid the 
 $81.20, and in order to straighten that out they have 
 given the receipt for the commission. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This commission bill doesn't seem to 
 have been approved by the State House ofiaeiak while 
 the other is approved. 
 
 Senator Skirm — What is the amount of the voucher 
 that is receipted ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — $62.15, commission taken oflE". 
 
 Senator Skirm — That fellow made a mistake, and it 
 was 80 apparent that it was taken off. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, the commission was taken off; the 
 bill evidently came to the State for the full amount and 
 a memorandum bill far the commission, directed to Mr. 
 Ford, and by some mishap they have all come in before 
 the financial department and the department have taken 
 the commission ofl. 
 
 Senator Herbert — I don't understand that the State 
 paid only the $62 or $63 ; I understand from that that 
 the State paid the full amount of the bill $82, and that 
 
JOSEPH L. NAAE. 871 
 
 the additional bill for commisBions is added for the 
 purpose of explaining. 
 
 Mr, Corbin — 'No, the bill was rendered for the full 
 amount, and the bill came giving Mr. Ford a commis- 
 sion of 25 per cent. ; and Mr. Ford has declined the 
 commission and deducted it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I think that ought to be noted on the 
 record. 
 
 Mr. Corbin- — He has put it on record, that is just 
 what it is. They have sent him this memorandum 
 showing that he is entitled to 25 per cent, on the work 
 and he has attached it to the vouchers and deducted the 
 commission, and the State has paid only the balance. 
 
 Senator Skirm — That showed he was honest at that 
 time. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think one witness swore here early in 
 the testimony that Mr. Ford himself admitted that he 
 did not take commissions. I remember that there was 
 evidence of that sort at the beginning. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I think you had better hunt up that 
 man, now, and have him here again. 
 
 Adjourned till Saturday, May 18th, 1895. 
 
 Tebnton, May 18th, 1895—10 A. M. 
 
 Joseph L. Naar, recalled 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. I observe that during the last five fiscal years you have pre- 
 sented between three and four hundred bills to the State for 
 printing, aggregating with these which Mr. Kelsey gave you 
 which did not appear on the State accounts, some $20,000 a year. 
 Who composed the firm of Waar, Day & Naar during these 
 years? A. There was no firm of ISTaar, Day & Naar since 1884, 
 I think. When was Cleveland first elected? 
 
 Q. In 1884. A. That year both my partners died and I 
 managed the business for them personally until I purchased their 
 interests, and with that purchase I purchased the right to use the 
 name ; that is all; I am Naar, Day & Naar. 
 
 Q. You are the sole proprietor of that house 1 A, 1 am the 
 proprietor. 
 
 Q. And have been during these five years? A. Yes, sir; ever 
 since: it went under the firm name as a matter of convenience 
 in keeping up the old name. 
 
872 JOSEPH L. NAAE. 
 
 Q. Anybody else any interest in the firm ? A. JS'ot a single- 
 soul, except in this regard, that I didn't pay ofl, and have not, the 
 claim of Moses B. Naar, except by a chattel mortgage. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But they have no interest in the bus- 
 iness ? A. The business is mine ; I pay interest upon what I 
 owe the estate of Moses B. ITaar ; the estate of Mr. Day was 
 closed out. 
 
 Q. You have, with that exception, been the sole proprietor of 
 the business for the past five years 1 A. 1 have, sir. 
 
 Q. Have moneys been advanced to you to conduct this busi- 
 ness by any State officers ? A. Not by State officers. 
 
 Q. Well, any State officer ? A. Any person holding State 
 office? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Who •? Mr. Henry C. Kelsey, in this way ; now, shall I 
 state the whole matter ? 
 
 Q. Yes. A. I bought this concern — I was the youngest mem- 
 ber of the firm and the one of least experience ; I carried the 
 load of doing, as most of the newspaper men in the town will 
 tell you, three or four days work in a day, and I succeeded in 
 getting it in such shape that I could run it successfully. 
 
 In 1888, about, I had an opportunity to buy the residence 
 property in which I lived, which was in the hands of an executor 
 and had run down, having been in a life estate; it was offered 
 very cheaply indeed, for $6,500. Offers by other people had been 
 received, that is, other people had had the same opportunity and 
 refused it. When I had that opportunity oftered to me I went 
 to Mr. Kelsey, and I said to him, " Mr. Kelsey, I have got a 
 chance to buy a nice home in a good location, and I can get 
 upon the property after I improve it, $5,000 ; do you think it 
 would be a good business proposition for me to go to your bank 
 and say to them I want to borrow this money for the improve- 
 ment of that property ? " He said, " Yes ; it is a perfectly valid 
 proposition;" more than that, he said, " I will help you in it, 
 and if you will put your account in my bank I will endorse your 
 paper and we will carry it along." I did so, and he endorsed 
 my note for $2,500, 1 think, which was carried along for two or 
 three years, about two years, when it was paid off. Afterwards 
 the same sort of opportunity afforded for me to buy a business 
 property on Warren street, a property which had been held by 
 the owner at $25,000, and he could not be induced to sell it; the 
 business was being prosecuted in it by his son and a partner; that 
 man got into difficulties; it was Mr. Philip Dunn ; he was connected 
 with the financial operations here, and failed. The property was in 
 
JOSEPH L. NAAE. 873 
 
 the hands of Mr. George 8. Grogan, as assignee. It was put up 
 at pubhc sale. I knew the thing was coming, and I was paying 
 where I was, for miserable quarters, but splendid location, a rent 
 of three thousand dollars a year. 1 saw an opportunity ; I saw 
 an opportunity to both get that property at anything like a 
 reasonable price and put it in shape and save at least $3,000 a 
 year in rent. I went to Mr. Kelsey again ; I went to him for 
 this reason, other business men in this town — no man can say 
 that I am in the note endorsing business ; I ne^er have done it — 
 had a dread of it, inherited, perhaps, and therefore this man had 
 been a friend of mine, and is a friend of mine, I went to him for 
 help ; he was connected with the bank ; he said to me — I said I 
 could raise a mortgage, a first mortgage of $10,000, from the 
 Saving Fund Society; I could get $10,000, and the property I 
 didn't know what it would bring, but I was asking if he would 
 help me ; he said he would, and when the sale came, I bought it 
 for about $16,500,1 think, or $17,000,- something like that. I 
 negotiated and asked Judge Lanning to take charge of the busi- 
 ness and of the operation ; Mr. Kelsey — I gave him a demand 
 note, secured by some bank stock which I had at that time, and 
 by a second mortgage on the concern. 
 
 Q. Demand note for how much ? A. For $10,000, and a second 
 mortgage upon the concern. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — To cover that? ^. Yes, sir; when I 
 bought this property it was a fine site ; there was a part of a 
 building on there, that was all ; I had to go to work and tear 
 down the building, the rear part of it, and rebuild and refinish 
 and strengthen it, and everything of that kind, and it cost me 
 very nearly $30,000 after Mr. Kelsey had given me this endorse- 
 ment of the note. He endorsed another note for me for $2,500, 
 which I paid in the course of time, after it had been reduced by 
 the sale of this bank stock that I held. The $10,000 then 
 remained ; the understanding of it, the agreement of the note 
 was, and of the operation that I was to pay $300 a quarter of 
 the principal, and tue interest upon the balance remaining. I 
 continued that until about a year ago, when I had reduced it to 
 something like $5,000. Then for the advantage that I could 
 acquire by having the two sums in a single mortgage, I secured 
 the mortgage from Mr. Charles E. Green as Trustee of the 
 Lawrenceville School, for $15,000 ; with that paid Mr. Kelsey 
 his balance, and I closed that operation. The $2,500 that he 
 had endorsed afterwards, as I say, I closed oat by the sale of 
 this bank stock which! had and which — that is the only State 
 officer with whom I have had, or any person, until very lately? 
 
874 JOSEPH L. NAAE. 
 
 when I bought my type-setting machines, and was making 
 some improvements ; at that time I borrowed from the bank 
 $5,000 on the endorsement of a friend, not a State officer. 
 
 Q. You have volunteered more than I should have asked you 
 about your personal afJairs? A. I have nothing to conceal about 
 it. 
 
 $. But you seemed to desire to do so, so I have not interrupted 
 you ? A. That is right ; I respect the courtesy of it. 
 
 Q. The second mortgage on your printing house, which you 
 have referred to, given by you to Mr. Kelsey, was the mortgage 
 recorded March 2, 1892, I suppose? A. Here it is, mortgage 
 and bond and note; here is the mortgage; that is the first mort- 
 gage that I made upon the property ; this is the first mortgage, 
 and that is the second mortgage to Mr. Kelsey, and the note. 
 
 Witness produced mortgage dated March 1, 1892, 
 and recorded the same date;. Joseph L. Naar and wife, 
 to the Trenton Savings Fund Society, §10,000, canceled 
 October 29, 1894. 
 
 Also, mortgage dated March 1, 1892, by Joseph L. 
 Naar and wife, to Henry C. Kelsey, for $10,000, recorded 
 March 2, 1892, Book 89 of Mortgages for Mercer 
 County, page 229, canceled October 29, 1894, with can- 
 celed bonds accompanying both, and with note of 
 March 1, 1892, for $10,000, on demand, to Henry C. 
 Kelsey, being the collateral note mentioned, the bond 
 and mortgage and the eighteen shares of stock in the 
 Mechanics Bank. 
 
 Witness — Now, I would say, as to those shares of 
 stock, that, when I had reduced the sum owing to a 
 certain amount, I forget what, I suggested to Mr. Kel- 
 sey that he let me withdraw the stock so that I could 
 sell it and wipe out this other matter that I was carry- 
 ing along and paying interest on ; and he assented, and 
 I did so. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The endorsement of July 1, 1892, is: 
 " Interest paid in full to date ; balance of principal now, 
 $9,500. October 1, 1892, interest paid to date; balance 
 of principal now, $9,000." 
 
 Witness — I have, if you want, a memorandum which 
 I had my book-keeper take from the books this morn- 
 ing, showing the quarterly payments. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No; not at all; you have given more 
 now than I wanted. " January 1, 1894, balance of prin- 
 cipal on this note, $6,500 ; interest paid to date ; H. 0. 
 
JOSEPH L. NAAB. 875 
 
 K." "April 1, 1894, balance of principal, $6,000; July 
 1, 1894, balance, |5,500j October 1, 1894, balance of 
 principal, $5,000. Note canceled." 
 
 Q. It was in the year 1892, was it not, that the large pamphlet 
 list of corporations was published, which came to some $4,685? 
 A. There is one thing to be remembered in regard to the dates 
 of those things, of that date of corporation up to or for the year 
 1892, and the book wouldn't be until 1893. 
 
 Q. But that was in fact paid for in the year 1892, was it not? 
 A. The book, yes, sir; September 29th, 1892, the memorandum 
 is upon my books, printing and binding two thousand certificates 
 of corporation, from 1846 to 1891, $4,686.58. 
 
 Q. $2,000 had been paid on account of that before, had it not, 
 before the final bill was rendered? A. I can't tell as to that. 
 
 Q. The bill shows that; does your memorandum show when 
 you got the final payment? A. Well, the charge I have here, the 
 charge upon my books which is September 29th, 1882. 
 
 Q. And it was paid about that time? A. I take it so; yes, 
 sir; I wouldn't say positively; about that time. 
 
 Q. I see* you made these bills to the State of 'Sew Jersey, 
 Department of State? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were they entered in your general accounts with the State, 
 or in a separate account? A. They were entered as under the 
 head — we have an account with the State Department, and have 
 an account with the Comptroller's Department and accounts with 
 every other Department that we do work for; this was under the 
 State Deparment account; this was in the account of the State 
 Department. 
 
 Q. You are aware, of course, that this printing of corporation 
 lists, and such like, was paid by Mr. Kelsey's individual check, 
 whereas your other bills were paid by the State's warrant, were 
 you not? A. I was after 1889; the report for 1889 was printed 
 in 1890 really, went to the State Comptroller's and was paid by 
 him. 
 
 Q. But after that ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you make any separate account of that on your books, or 
 did you charge them up on your books to the State of New Jersey 
 in your account with the Department of State? A. Charged 
 them to the Department of State the same as the other things. 
 
 Q. But presented them — A. Made it separately ; it was con- 
 siderable of a book, and when it was done we made the bill for 
 it separate from the current account and put it in. 
 
 Q. But it is entered in the same account? A. It is entered in 
 the same account. 
 
876 JOSEPH L. NAAE. 
 
 Q. How was it paid? A. It was paid by Mr. Kelsey's check, 
 as I understand it and remember it. 
 
 Q. And that was so for the years that followed, up to 1894? 
 A. I think so, sir. 
 
 Q. But in your books it will be found in the Department of 
 State account? A. In the State Department ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In that same year, 1892, August and September, you re- 
 ceived some 15,000, did you not, for printing election blanks? 
 A. I will take your word for it; I don't know. 
 
 Q. But you did print them that year ? A. What year was it ? 
 
 Q. 1892 ? A. Well, when was the law — I suppose so ; we have 
 printed them every year since the law was passed, and it was 
 passed in 1891 ; well, preparation was made for the election of 
 1S92, 1 suppose ; my impression is 1890 figures in it some where. 
 
 Q. Grenerally speaking, Mr. Naar, your bills for work done for 
 the State were chiefly, were they not, for the Department of 
 State ? A. There was more done for that than for any other 
 Department since these two laws came in. 
 
 Q. More than all the others combined, was there not? A. 
 Since these two new laws camti in more than the otheA combined. 
 
 Q. Probably three-fourths of your work is from that office? 
 A. No, sir; not by considerable. 
 
 Q. Of course a portion of your work was also the annual 
 printing for the newspapers the same as — A. The laws in the 
 newspapers ? 
 
 Q. Yes? A. Yes, sir; that was to a particular account, and 
 that is newspaper account, and that we make no bill of, because 
 the Comptroller's department settles the quantity and the price. 
 
 Q. It is the same as other newspapers, except that I believe 
 you did render some additional service in supplying copies of 
 the laws for the others? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Who pays that, the Comptroller ? A. 
 It was put in the Secretary of State's bill and paid by the Comp- 
 troller. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But the special printing is paid for 
 by the Secretary of State ? A. Which special printing. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That is, the copies of the laws, or 
 does the Comptroller pay that ? A. The Comptroller pays that ; 
 he make up the account when the laws are printed; we take the 
 newspapers to the Comptroller's office, and he goes over and 
 measures how much it has been. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — My question was, for the special 
 copies of the laws which you send out. 
 
JOSEPH L. NAAE. 877 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The special copies of the laws for the 
 use of other newspapers. 
 
 A. For the use of other newspapers and for the current use of 
 the Legislature ; there is any quantity of them. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — And the Comptroller pays for that? 
 A. That is paid by a bill upon the State passed through the 
 Comptroller's Department. 
 
 I would like to explain a matter which came up at 
 the last meeting which I think you did not fully ap- 
 preciate, and which perhaps the expert did not fully ap- 
 preciate. 
 
 Q. Proceed, Mr. Naar ? A. You asked the question, and ex- 
 cuse me if I do not quote it right, because I didn't hear all of it, 
 but you asked the question as to the price paid for this corpora- 
 tion work, and you asked it — 
 
 Q. I asked the expert what it would cost to do the work, and 
 I instituted a comparison between the cost of doing it and the 
 price which the State had paid you for doing it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That was the gist of my question. A. The estimate of the 
 cost which the expert presented was upon the basis of 75 cents 
 for these pages ; 75 cents per thousand, and 75 cents per token. 
 
 Q. The estimate of the expert was upon the theory that this 
 work could be done by compositors getting $14 a week for fifty- 
 five hours' work, and he laid those figures opposite the bills 
 which you rendered. A. At so much a page ? 
 
 Q. He took your bills as they were ; I had your bills here and 
 ofteVed them, let them be what they may. A. As I understood 
 it, he was asked how much he could set of that, and what that 
 figured at 75 cents a thousand. 
 
 0. No. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think you are in error about 
 that. 
 
 A. I want to say, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Corbin, with all 
 respect, that the bills for these bills for 1889, 1890 and 
 1891, were based upon sixty cents a thousand ems for com- 
 position, and for the press-work in 1892 on the first of July. On 
 the fourtb of July the Printers' Union changed the scale of 
 wages, making $14 the pay — not for six days, but for five days 
 and a half, in theory ; in practice, about five days and a quarter, 
 getting ready ab?)ut ten or eleven o'clock to quit ; and more than 
 that, that the value of this work — the cost of this work, particu- 
 larly of this corporation work, of these bills is not wholly nor 
 greatly in the first cost of the composition for this reason : That 
 work is set up ; it is, after the man sets it — as Mr. Fitzgeorge 
 
878 JOSEPH L. NAAB. 
 
 said he could do it in a day — passed to other men, who take 
 proofs of it; two men have to take the time to read it, and if yoa 
 will read over one of those pap^es you will see it takes a good 
 deal of time. The errors then have to be corrected and another 
 proof taken, sent to the Secretary of State's ofHce, there to be 
 read with the copy furnished, with references to the original re- 
 cords — that proof corrected, and a third proof taken and sent to 
 the Secretary's of State's office, to see that those corrections are 
 made ; and from there, after those corrections are again made, 
 put upon the press ; so, that is not all in this matter. 
 
 Q. You refer now, in speaking of the corporation work, to this 
 tabular work, do you not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 ^. Which is paid at double rates ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 (^. And what you have said about this care and these compari- 
 so'^^s is applicable to all tabular work, isn't it? A. Well, no ; in 
 ordinary work you read your proof and send it in, and if another 
 fellow wants to read it after you, you let him do it, but you cor- 
 rect your proof and put it on ; this thing is a mass of personal 
 names in which every element of accuracy is necessary; the title 
 of a corporation is the great difficulty, names are peculiarly 
 spelled, you can't tell whether it is right or wrong. 
 
 Q. That requires additional care in proof-reading ? A. Yes, 
 sir ; and in time. ITow, there is one other matter I would like 
 to state. After you finished with me the other day, I found the 
 heaviest part, like the alligator, was in the tail — 
 
 Q. Was the copy which you received for this corporation 
 tabulated work in typewriting or in handwriting? A. As T re- 
 member it, every title was upon a blank prepared, which had the 
 name of the corporation written upon it, and every item of the 
 report ; it was in separate blanks, and then they were copied from 
 the difierent books, and then they were shuffled together and 
 arranged in alphabetical order. 
 
 Q. It was such copy as you receive for making up a directory, 
 a slip for every name? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q^. Was that in typewriting or handwriting? A. My impres- 
 sion is it was in handwriting. 
 
 Q. Now, you said there was something else you desired to re- 
 fer to? ^. As to this price which I have charged of 75 cents 
 per thousand — 75 cents charged in some instances ; every printer 
 in Trenton, and in most cities, will tell you abc^t the State rate 
 and the legal rate, just as your bills of cost contain a legal fee or 
 your officers were paid a legal salary. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — How is that legal rate reached ? A. 
 It is reached in this way : It used to be the custom in every year 
 
JOSEPH L. NAAR. 879 
 
 for the Legislature to pass an act relative to public printing, 
 which act fixed what things were to be done, how they were to 
 be done, what price was to be charged for them and who was to 
 do them ; that was the Public Printing act ; in 1883 there were 
 two laws passed, approved upon the same day, the one providing 
 for the contract work, to go into effect in the next year, because 
 it provided for the initial steps to be taken in January and July 
 of the next year; the other provided for the work of tVat year, 
 and, in so providing, laying down the general conditions under 
 which contract work was to be done when it came to be done, 
 and which is still and does still prevail in fixing the character of 
 the contract work ; for instance, that the laws shall be so-and-so ; 
 that the House journal and the Senate minutes shall be so- 
 and-so ; that the bills shall be upon a certain paper and contain 
 80 many lines, and all that. In that law, which in the book of 
 laws is subsequent to the contract law, is the statement as to 
 what shall constitute the price for such things as shall be ordered 
 by the Legislature outside of the things mentioned for which a 
 price had been detailed ; that price is 75 cents per thousand, and 
 75 cents per token, and that price has controlled other things, 
 just as the State law in regard to the price for publishing the 
 laws for newspapers controls the price for publishing other things 
 for the State; for instance, the proclamations as to corporations, 
 the Comptroller's notices, notices of Secretary of State, the Gov- 
 ernors proclamations — all that is done, and the man sends the 
 papers to the Comptroller, and that is figured up on the basis of 
 the price for publishing the laws, and they bear the same relation 
 to each other and have from time immemorial, to my recollec- 
 tion, and that is the basis of this charge of 75 cents where the 
 charge of 75 cents is made. 
 
 Q. You mean this — that where no price is fixed that you 
 regard that statute ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Why didn't you charge that price, 75 cents, in 1891, aind 
 along there ? A. I can't give you any reason for it, except that 
 I didn't ; it seemed an extreme price, and it is an extreme price, 
 there is no doubt about that. 
 
 Q. Those two acts of 1883 to which you refer are, as you say, 
 both printed in the supplement to the Revision, but did you 
 notice that the revisers say they have printed it there although it 
 is practically superseded by the Contract act ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And, moreover, as you said, was not that act passed really 
 for the use of that year, 1883 ; there is nothing there to govern 
 after ? A. There is if you look at that first section. 
 
880 JOSEPH L. NAAR. 
 
 Q. I am quite familiar with the act. A. As to a memorandum 
 by the reviser ; I had the honor of talking yesterday with one of 
 the revisers upon the subject and asking his legal opinion upon 
 the matter, and when he went over the laws as they were upon 
 the statute book, he said to me, " That note ought never to have 
 been there." 
 
 §. Why did you limit yourself to 75 cents ; that law doesn't 
 limit you to it ? A. \ always insisted it did. 
 
 §. You say other printers know of such a thing as State 
 prices ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In other words, you considered that that law of 1883 justi- 
 fied these rates which you call extreme rates ? J.. I did. 
 
 Q. If I had asked you personally for such a job you wouldn't 
 have thought of charging me or my firm that, would you? A. 
 Well, I don't know as to that, you know. 
 
 Q. If any private contractor had asked you for a job, you 
 wouldn't for a moment have thought of entering any such price 
 on my bill t A. K man came to my ofiice lately and wanted me 
 to do a job and offered me 65 cents for the composition and 55 
 cents for press work, and wanted me to do it. 
 
 Q. That is still less than the State rates ? A. Yes, sir ; but 
 there is only one thing I want to emphasize in regard to this mat- 
 ter ; I assume it is an important matter. I don't want to be put in 
 the position of extorting money, even by friendly aid, and I don't 
 intend to be put in thfe position of conspiring with anybody to ex- 
 tort money from the State. This State only in regard to the 
 printing does its work by contract, or attempts to do it. It does 
 not do it in regard to a salary of the State officers, it doesn't do 
 it in regard to the fee of any lawyer, the compensation of any 
 lawyer, nor of any other branch of business except the news- 
 papers. 
 
 §. Be careful how you assert the law ; the salaries are almost 
 all fixed by law, and limited. A. Are they put up by contract or 
 proposals, is there any office to which the State says, now, here, 
 if you will do this work for so and so you can do it ? 
 
 Q. You are getting into to a very serious constitutional subject 
 when you talk about selling offices. A. This is a sale of offices ? 
 
 Q. No, it is no office; it is a sale of trade ? A. Sale of patron- 
 age. 
 
 Q. But there are supplies obtained by contract under our ays. 
 tem. A. I know that, but here was a general principle that was 
 impracticable to work under ; I have in my pocket now a letter 
 from the Adjutant General to the Comptroller in response to a 
 demand by the Comptroller, or rather a request, to the statement 
 
JOSEPH L. NAAE. 881 
 
 that he — it was a notice that he had ordered so much out of the 
 contract list, and calling his attention to the necessity of further 
 and closer obeyance of the law; Mr. General Stryker, in a letter 
 which I have here, a copy of which he himself furnished me, 
 speaks of the impossibilities of it ; it is a practical impossibility 
 in very many instances. 
 
 Q. When a contract is given to you there is no impossibility 
 about carrying out that contract, is there? A. If there is I lose 
 money by it ; there is no impossibility about it. 
 
 Q, The difficulty you are speaking of is the difficulty of State 
 officers anticipating all they are going to require? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is a matter which need not really concern you ; that 
 is a matter for them to thrash out ? A. Yes, sir ; I am not caring 
 anything about that, only that the sequela of the disease comes 
 upon me ; somebody has the fever and I have the eruption. 
 
 Q. What reason is there why you should not do this work tor 
 the State, when a State officer asks you for it, as cheaply as you 
 would do it for me, or lor any other reputable citizen who pays 
 promptly ? A. There are two reasons. In the first place, the 
 State doesn't expect it; and in the second place the State, by its 
 law, says that it does not expect it. All this printing was given 
 out as a matter of favor by the Legislature itself, and they fixed 
 the price themselves, and newspapers have been built up and 
 sustained by it, and it is only when personal antagonisms came 
 in and got the Legislature to pass this law that the system was 
 changed ; and whether it has been changed for the benefit of the 
 State or not, I don't know, and from the investigations made by 
 this Committee so far I can't tell, because the contract system is 
 one which, touch it here was rotten, and touch it there and it was 
 corrupt ; there never was anything in the State law, so far as I 
 know — 
 
 Q. If the other one was rotten, there was no way to get at it. 
 You have given me, I think, the very best answer that can be 
 given, as I understand you, to wit, that this printing from time 
 immemorial was considered a matter of favor and political bounty, 
 and was given out for the 'purpose of sustaining and supporting 
 the printers and their newspapers, on some theory of public 
 policy, or for other reasons? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Possibly to keep the newspaper from being too pertinent in 
 its remarks ? J.. I don't know that ; I find the more patronage 
 I got the more impertinent I was. 
 
 Q. But your impertinence is somewhat discriminating? A. 
 No, sir ; no State officer can come into my office and tell me 
 what he wants done, and I told one of them so to his face. 
 
 56 SH 
 
882 JOSEPH L. NAAE. 
 
 Q. Was it Mr. Kelsey to whom you told that ? A. That was 
 Mr. Kelsey. He said he wanted an independent newspaper ; I 
 said : " Mr. Kelsey, do you know of any newspaper oflS.ce in this 
 State, or any man in this State that can come into my office and 
 tell me what he wants said, and what he don't ? " He says : " I 
 don't," and then I says " I guess I am pretty near as independent 
 a newspaper as there is in the State of New Jersey." 
 
 Q. You are the first Democrat I have found that could stand 
 up against Mr. Kelsey. A. You have been searching exclusively 
 among Democrats — 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — Your mental capacity served a 
 good turn that time ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I said that the witness, I thought, had 
 really given the very best answer that could be given to 
 the question why the State should pay so much more 
 than others ; he says it has been from time immemorial 
 a matter of political bounty. 
 
 Witness — The other reason is that if I had done busi- 
 ness with any individual of this Committee for the past 
 ten or fifteen years only by agents chosen by himself, 
 and he had come to me and showed me these accounts 
 and said, "Show me whether you have any collusion 
 with other people to defraud me," I would have told 
 him, "You go and get it." The State of New Jersey 
 brings me here and submits me to the criticism, the vilest 
 criticism of newspapers for months — brings it here and 
 has those criticisms crystalized and imputations thrown 
 out by a gentleman who is not to be beaten in a knowl- 
 edge of the law, and yet who wanted to put upon those 
 who were perhaps better acquainted with the criminal 
 law, whether my actions were part of a conspiracy to 
 defraud the State of E"ew Jersey. 
 Q. When a man can by going across the street get work done 
 for about half the price that you charge for it, what do you think 
 of it? A. I wouldn't intimate conspiracy ; I wouldn't try to find 
 it with a man who had earned a repufation for honesty ; I would 
 try to find an honest reason for it. 
 
 • Q. You can't deny that I have given you every opportunity ? 
 A. You have acted with me with perfect candor, and as a gentle- 
 man ; I haven't the slightest objection to anything you have 
 asked me or in the way you have treated me ; I haven't been 
 subpoenaed here; you have let me come when you wanted me, 
 and I have come because I have nothing to conceal; I have 
 done work for the State of New Jersey with all the officers, 
 
JOSEPH L. NAAR. 883 
 
 through the Governor, through the Attorney- General, through 
 everybody in the State House, at one time or another, and 
 never in the history of my life has any man thought so little 
 ot me or so little of himself as to intimate in any shape or form 
 that I should recompense that for which he had given to me as a 
 matter of favor and kindness. 
 
 Q. That has not been charged against you by anybody that I 
 know of? A. I don't know as to that; you will find — 
 
 Q. I dont think you will find that even by innuendo in anything 
 that has happened here ? A. Not here, but in the papers, which 
 take this examination, in a paper which says " Go into the Sec- 
 tary of State's ofiice and look at Naar's accounts and see if you 
 don't find fraud." 
 
 Q. You speak of tbe bitterness of these criticisms of your 
 rivals in the newspaper business ; why don't you send them as 
 good as they send you ; you have a newspaper that is read ; 
 wouldn't that be the proper way to meet them ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Why not ? _ A. 1 will tell you, be- 
 cause everybody is under a shadow of the sword ; I can tell you 
 right here and now, I stated a fact in regard to the expert em- 
 ployed by this Commission, an open fact, that he was a man who, 
 having failed in his own business, had been put here to examine 
 into the details of mine — to give the story of it ; what is the con- 
 sequence ? You say, " Why don't you doit?" IS'ow, what is 
 the consequence ? That man has been continued to go on ; and 
 I was told — I don't know with how much truth — but as I was 
 told, "He is after you ; " he says, " He didn't figure low enough 
 before ; he is going to figure lower — " 
 
 Q. I am indulging you too far when I suffer you to go into 
 gossip about witnesses who have testified here. Would you dis- 
 qualify a man as an expert because he happened to fail in busi- 
 ness once ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. A good many of you probably would have to step out of 
 the witness chair, wouldn't you, if that was the case? A. A 
 good many who have not had State printing ; that is the great 
 panacea of printers. Is there anything else ? 
 
 Q. You doubtless misconstrued my purpose, as well as that of 
 the Committee. It is not to do you any injustice, but it is to try 
 to find a better method of doing this printing. A. I will join 
 you in that, as I told you when I came to see you and asked you 
 to spare me the annoyance of being brought here in connection 
 with the events that were turning up, as the ploughshare turns 
 up the bones on the battle-field, and you said to me, " I don't 
 want to annoy you." 
 
884 JOSEPH L. NAAE. 
 
 Q. That is true. A. And we talked the matter over, and you 
 said to me further, "I may want to 'ask or talk with you about 
 the proper remedies for this evil; " I said, " I shall be entirely at 
 your disposal," and so I have been ; any time you want to see me 
 about it, or any of this Committee want a thesis on government 
 printing — the decadence of the local newspapers — I shall be glad 
 to do it. I am very much obliged to you. 
 
 Q. Do you think the present patronage system ought to con- 
 tinue of supporting newspapers by the use of State money? A. 
 If you ask me I will tell you this : if the Legislature, which is 
 the State, will fix a reasonable price and use the legislative power 
 to designate the proper persons to do it, so as to build up these 
 newspapers in the country and in the larger cities where they 
 need it, it would be a great deal better scheme than to turn this 
 matter over to the trickery of people who are driven — under the 
 contract system as soon as the man gets in he commences at once 
 to determine how he can cheapen it. 
 
 §. That can be controlled by specifications, can't it? A. Ex- 
 perience shows not. 
 
 Q. Then to adopt your theory and go on as we have done and 
 build up newspapers, ought we not, in justice, immediately to 
 drop you and Mr. Murphy, and whoever has been living on the 
 State for years, and take some fellow from Woodstown, or Engle- 
 wood, or Hightstown? A. In view of my mental capacity, I 
 have also a strong feeling of gratitude for what has been done. 
 
 Q. And a lively sense of favors to come ? A. Tea, sir ; and 
 take what I may pick up on the sly. 
 
 Q. Well, sir, we will give your suggestion consideration ? A. 
 I have got nothing to conceal about this matter, nor my conduct 
 with the business of the State, nor the ofllcers of the State ; my 
 books are open to you ; you can go there and I will give you all 
 the information I have. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — You have always expressed 
 yourself willing to do that. 
 
 Witness — I am willing to do it ; and I am glad to feel 
 that there has been, on the part of the committee, no 
 connection of impropriety on my part with what I have 
 done; that has been my only dread and care about it; 
 I wouldn't care three cents, as a business proposition, to 
 come here and explain everything, but to roll a stone up 
 hill is always hard work. 
 
EDWIN PITZGEOKGE. 885 
 
 Edwin Fitzgeorge, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Me. Coebtn. 
 
 Q. Have you made comparisons of the prices of stationery 
 furnished to the State by N'aar, Day & Naar under their contract 
 of last year, and their prices for the same stationery furnished 
 not under contract ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you a sheet there showing the comparison ? Q. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. These are a number of items taken from the bills for the 
 purpose of comparison. Refer to your list and take the first 
 item of combined fluid, which I suppose is ink ; what is that in 
 Naar's contract ? 
 
 A, Stationery. 
 
 Naar's Naar's Percent- 
 
 Contract Job age of 
 
 Quantity and Description. Price. Price, Increase, 
 
 2 quarts Combined Fluid $0.62 $2.00 220 
 
 2 quarts Stafford's Fluid 83 1.50 80 
 
 2 pints Carter's Crimson Ink 2,07 4.00 93 
 
 1 doz. De Har's Pens, No. 6 82 1.25 50 
 
 1 gross Faber Hex. Pencils, Ko. 3 1.56 1.80 15 
 
 1 great gross Bands, JSTo. 10 83 1.56 88 
 
 1 gross Spencerian Pens 77 1.00 30 
 
 1 dozen Rogers' Knife Erasers 9.12 15.00 ' 64 
 
 3 pints Pomeroy Mucilage 1.05 1.80 38 
 
 2,000 McGill's Fasteners, No. 1 1.65 8,00 385 
 
 5 dozen Gerber's Typewriter Ribbons 24.75 60.00 142 
 
 J dozen Morgan's Mucilage Stands, No. 7, 2.48 7.50 202 
 
 1 quart Stafford's Combined Ink 55 1.00 80 
 
 12,000 Notarial Wafers, No. 3 12,87 28,80 122 
 
 $59,97 $135,11 125 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Committee will observe that the 
 total of these prices on the contract of last year bought 
 of Naar was $59.97, and the total prices for the same 
 goods furnished by Naar last year not in the contract 
 was $135.11, or, when not furnished by contract, 125 
 per cent, advance over the contract price. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand that these goods 
 were furnished in the same quantity without the con- 
 tract as they were with ? 
 Q. How do you find these quantities in the contract and in 
 the several bills, were they the same? A. I took the contract 
 
886 EDWIff FITZGEORGE. 
 
 and put the bills side by side, and only took those quantities that 
 
 were exact, and the names of these things are just the same. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That is what I wanted to know, 
 
 whether it was the same quantity ? A. Same quantity every 
 
 time ; I didn't use any figures except where the quantity was the 
 
 Bame. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham)^Did the same rule apply in cases 
 
 where the quantities were not the same 1 A. \ didn't examine 
 
 them. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — This will illustrate to the Committee 
 whether the contract system has economy in it or not. 
 In the first place,' Mr. Naar bid in competition with 
 other reputable stationers for the furnishing of stationery 
 in these quantities last year. He was the lowest bidder 
 and secured the contract for the stationery work. It is 
 to be assumed that he made a profit in it. These are 
 standard goods, the prices of which are known. How 
 easy to insert a clause in the contract that if more goods 
 should be required of the same kind for the State during 
 the year they shall be had upon requisition at the con- 
 tract price, but there is no such clause, and when you 
 send down afterwards for a dozen more jack-knives, or 
 any other quantity of anything, here is 125 per cent, ad- 
 vance on the contract price. In other words, all the 
 profit on the contract price is still retained and 125 per 
 cent, more ; in other words, you pay twice or thrice for 
 your goods. 
 
 Senator Daly — Tour insistment is that the contract 
 system should be in vogue ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Undoubtedly. Mr. Naar's suggestion, 
 as I understand him, is that fraud is unearthed with 
 competitive contracts. The trouble with the private 
 arrangement is, you never can tell whether fraud is in 
 it or not, for a man charges what he pleases. The con- 
 tract requires everything to be put on record, and every 
 opportunity is given, in such investigations as we are 
 now making, to unearth any such frauds. 
 
 Senator Daly — That consideration you will find in 
 every individual that deals with the State. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I presume that is so. I am proving this, 
 not for the purpose of casting any reflection on Mr. 
 Naar, but to present the facts — you pay more than 
 double the money when you buy in this way than you 
 would if you bought the goods under contract. 
 
EDWIN PITZGEOEUE. 887 
 
 Senator Ketcham — The law prescribes the contract 
 system, doesn't it? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — One of the sections of the law of 1883 as 
 amended in 1885 provides that in April of each year all 
 the State officers and heads of departments shall make 
 requisition upon the Comptroller for such stationery 
 and supplies as they anticipate they will want, including 
 blanks, JSTow in practice it is impossible to anticipate 
 everything that wift be required ; that will be bo al- 
 ways, of course, and when an officer is out of a certain 
 thing, instead of going to the Comptroller aud getting 
 the same under a contract which would require more to 
 be furnished, he goes and gets it at these double and 
 treble prices, and as I said the other day that has gone 
 to such an extent that the contract system for supplies 
 has broken down, and you find five or six thousand dol- 
 lars spent through the contract, and twice, thrice or four 
 times that outside. 
 
 Senator Daly — Why not make a suggestion to make 
 the Comptroller the delivery officer far all the depart- 
 ments? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Even that might not be necessary. I 
 think that if you will put into your act a provision that 
 the contractors shall contract to deliver as much more 
 as may be required from time to time during the year — 
 and then as to this printing of blanks and printing of 
 circulars, a large amount of which is necessary and 
 legitimate, put into your contract that the printer shall 
 print as many as shall be required of a certain circular 
 at so much a page ; then you can freely make requisi- 
 tions upon him at any time. 
 
 Senator Skirm — The N'ew Jersey State Prison adver- 
 tises for all their supplies, and the supervisor simply 
 gives the quantity, and he has a right to give that 
 quantity and buy as much ol it as he may need, or so 
 much as his necessities require, at a fixed price for a 
 given time, and that is the way- it ought to be with the 
 Comptroller here and with these State officers. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, if you are going to have the con- 
 tract system at all, it seems to me that is the obvious 
 way to do it — our present contract system is too narrow. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I presume the method of buying un- 
 der this stationery and printing contract — you take 
 those prices; you are familiar with them, so am I- 
 
888 EDWIN FITZGEOEGE. 
 
 Those goods there are put down at a ridiculously low" 
 figure; I don't suppose there is a dollar profit in the 
 contract of Naar, Day & Naar or any other man ; how- 
 ever, they would bid on that line with the idea that 
 during the year they were going to furnish supplies at 
 excessive prices, and therefore make their profit on 
 that ; whereas, if a man knew he was going to furnish 
 his goods for the year, or for any given time, at the same 
 figures, he would figure up to that standard so as to 
 make something ; but I don't believe there is a dollar 
 profit in the bid of Naar, Day & Naar. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The State ought to pay a fair price, but 
 as I understand it, all the governments, from the United 
 States down to cities and townships, do get their goods 
 upon the contract system ; that system is so firmly fixed 
 in the administration of this country that it is almost 
 too late to debate the wisdom of it. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But it should run during a stated 
 period, and the prices would be fair prices for all arti- 
 cles that would be needed during the year. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — That is the law in this State 
 now ; the provision of the law is simply being violated. 
 
 Senator Daly — I agree with Mr. Corbin ; I don't think 
 the law is broad enough ; there are many loop-holes ; I 
 have read those printing laws in the last few days, and 
 I must say that loop-holes are innumerable ; there is not 
 a thing that Mr. Naar has done, by a fair interpretation 
 of those laws, that is not absolutely legal and beyond 
 criticism. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — It may be legal. 
 
 Senator Daly — Yes, sir; clearly so. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— The act of 1883, to which Mr. Naar calls 
 attention, does not seem to me to fix the price for the 
 present printing; still, it is not worth while to debate 
 here now that question ; you are here to see what new 
 laws ought to be passed ; it is enough to see that it is 
 not clear and right as it is now. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — It isn't all in the law ; part of it is 
 in the administration of it ; I don't believe in blaming 
 the law for everything. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — A willing mind can make a good 
 administration. 
 
 Senator Daly — It is almost a necessity that a man is 
 seeking to follow the strict letter of the law, and in 
 
EDWIN FITZSEOEGE. 889 
 
 following the strict letter ol the law you will find he is 
 not violating any law that time and time again is 
 charged against him. 
 
 Q. Have you examined the canvassing books, the poll books 
 and register books printed by ITaar, Day & ISTaar, for the use of 
 the State ? A. Yes, sir, 
 
 Q. Please refer to your canvassing book for the general elec- 
 tion of 1893. Did you examine the bill for that book ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. What would it cost to make it ? A. $382.03. 
 
 Q. Now add your 33 and a third per cent, profit. A. |127. 4 ; 
 total, $409.37. 
 
 Q. The bill for that book is $840.05, or 127 per cent, in advance 
 of the cost, according to the witness' testimony. 
 
 Q. Refer to the poll book. What is the cost of that ? A. 
 $255.50; one-third profit, $85.13, total $340.63. 
 
 Q. It cost $614.84, or 138 per cent, advance on the cost. A. I 
 would like to say also that I received figures from another party 
 in reference to that same book, and the cost price they say is 
 $216, and I have put it at $255 ; I didn't intend to do that until 
 Mr. Kaar acted as he did in the matter. 
 
 Q. But your estimate is considerably higher than these sta- 
 tioners whom you have called upon ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether these were made in Philadelphia ? 
 A. Part of them, I understand, were made in Philadelphia; 
 they were ruled in Philadelphia and indexed, I believe, in Phila- 
 delphia. 
 
 Q. Refer to the register books ; what is the cost of getting up 
 that book? A. There were 1,850 copies of the other books and 
 44,625 of the register books; they cost $803.98; profit, $267.66; 
 total, $1,071.64. 
 
 Q. The cost to the State was $2,187? A. I would say in that 
 that I also have figures from another party, putting the cost at 
 $545.19; I figured it $803.98. 
 
 Q. la making up your figures have you taken care to make 
 them high enough in every respect to fully cover the cost of 
 doing the work ? J.. I believe I have every time ; I would take 
 the contract at that price. 
 
 Q. And it would be easy, would it not, to obtain from sta- 
 tioners estimates much lower than those? A. They are there, 
 and right there I would like to say in reference to that book on 
 corporations that that is particularly " fat " work. I showed that 
 at first — I tried to — that in setting that work a man could do a 
 great deal more than he can on most any State work that is done, 
 
890 EDWIN FITZGEOEGE, 
 
 and they do that at 21 J a thousand which he charges 75 cents 
 for; on that, with that contract price of 21 J cents, he has charged 
 75 cents. 
 
 Q. That is, the State pays 21 J? A. Yes, sir, and I always 
 understood that was the State price. 
 
 Q. For the same sort of work ? A, Yes, sir ; probably, as he 
 says, there is more care taken with that, but as a general thing, 
 I guess they don't see the proof on regular State work; that is 
 something that the contractor would have to consider if he did 
 on that particular work. I would like to say also in reference to 
 the price per token, the price per token last year was 20 cents, 
 and he charges right straight through 75 cents ; it is done right 
 along by contract at that price. 
 
 Q. Have you examined the election returns printed by Naar 
 for 1893 and 1894 for the State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. A thousand copies of each ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. What would that election return far 1894 cost ? A. Well, 
 I have figured these so as there would be no mistake ; I didn't 
 take my own idea what a page was worth, but I have taken the 
 contract price. 
 
 Q. What would that book have cost the State at contract 
 price? A. $127.75. 
 
 Q. What did the State pay for it? A. $366.21. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — If that had gone under the contract — 
 that is simply book matter, 44 pages, the actual cost of 
 doing it would have been $127, and, adding your profit, 
 pernaps $200 ; but it did cost the State $366. E"ow, do 
 you want any better illustration than this sample of 
 every-day printing? 
 Q. Look at the election returns of 1893. A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. A pamphlet of 31 pages ; what would that have cost under 
 the contract last year? A. $49.06. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— It did cost the State $121.49, or 145 per 
 cent, advance on the contract. 
 
 Now, I am disposed to give full credit to what has 
 been said about having work done well and having it 
 done promptly and satisfactorily; I don't believe in the 
 State's being niggardly about these things; I should be 
 very sorry to see the State of New Jersey send out its 
 laws and its printing in the shape that it comes to us 
 from some other States; it is hardly respectable to send 
 out such rubbish as some of the States do for the sake of 
 paring economy ; there is no handsomer or finer printing 
 done in the United States than is done in New Jersey and 
 
EDWIN FITZGBORGE. 891 
 
 Bent out to the Secretaries of States and Librarians 
 of the other commonwealths, and I believe in keeping 
 that up, and we can do it by contract, making the ses- 
 sion laws of such a year the model ; and requiring that 
 quality of paper and that quality of work to be main- 
 tained, and that high standard of work need not be at 
 all degraded; there are excellent printers in Trenton, 
 and there are excellent printers in other parts of the 
 State that can do this work, and if there is anything to 
 be said in favor of encouraging them and giving them 
 bounties, give them all an equal chance at it. But that 
 is not what government is for; it seems to me the State 
 is only concerned, the work be done properly, decently, 
 and yet economically. I think it is the businees of Leg- 
 islatures and of officers to be quite as economical in the 
 administration of State funds as they would of their 
 own, or of trust fands in their hands. This can be 
 done, and the State can be properly served and satis- 
 factorily, without such extravagance and wastefulness 
 as will bring disgrace and discredit upon us. 
 Q. Did you examine the register list c-f 1894? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. This is it; what could that be done for; first state how 
 
 many sheets? A. 3,750 sets of 8 sheets each, cost price, $275.06 ; 
 
 Mr. Naar's price, $537.78 ; allowing a profit of 33J per cent., the 
 
 price would be, $366.74. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — These have been selected very much at 
 random, from several hundred bills we have here, to 
 illustrate what has been going on ; as I have said to 
 you, there are three or four hundred bills from Mr. 
 Naar alone in the last five fiscal years; some of them 
 may show larger percentages, or smaller — we have 
 taken them as they came; the work of making the com- 
 parisons and calculations is great, and I have insisted 
 upon it being done and verified with great care, solving 
 every doubt against the State. I have done it to illus- 
 trate the extravagance of our present practices. "Sow, 
 Mr. Naar, on the stand, took exception to my statement, 
 with reference to what had been done between the 
 State officers and printers, that it might be conspiracy 
 to defraud the State. I don't wish to do any injustice 
 to him or any State officer, and possibly it is be- 
 yond my province to make suggestions of that char- 
 acter. It' it is, I certainly should not have said it; but 
 to produce the facts in all their bearings, and all 
 the facts, so far as I can learn them, does certainly 
 
892 PROMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 
 
 seem to be my duty ; but I would not by an ill-guarded 
 remark do any man any injustice or make any sug- 
 gestion outside of my duty. I think it is only fair to 
 say that in answer to what he said, in justice to him and 
 any others to whom it might refer. 
 
 Mr. Chairman, I wish to open to-day for the consid- 
 eration of the Committee the matter of the promulga- 
 tion of the laws. For a long time this State has promul- 
 gated its laws; first by a printed volume, which is issued 
 annually, some eight or ten thousand copies being printed 
 for the use of State officers and the lawyers and justices 
 of the peace, and all others who may desire them ; the 
 edition of some eight thousand which is now being 
 printed is not too many, probably is about right; it has 
 been raised to ten thousand, and was again reduced a 
 few years ago; in 1891 it was cut down to five thousand, 
 and that was found to be too few. The cost of that 
 printing of the laws is about $2,000 a year — often less. 
 This method is entirely satisfactory. The work is well 
 done and economically. 
 
 The other method which has been in vogue in this 
 State for a long time is the publication of the laws in 
 the uewppapers, and that has been a burning question 
 before the Legislature, State officers and among the 
 newspapers probably for a longer time than any of 
 us can remember. It leads to rivalries, bitterness and 
 constant changes in the law. Year after year new laws 
 have been passed upon that subject. One is set up only 
 to be knocked down the next year. If members of the 
 Legislature cannot secure the designation of the papers 
 they desire, new laws are passed to accomplish their 
 purposes, and regulations of a general nature which 
 have been established have been overthrown to further 
 special ends and preferences. The cost of this is a 
 serious matter to the State, and has been so for many 
 jears. 
 
 I have had prepared a table running back to 1885; 
 ot course I could go back much further with equal 
 results — but from 1885 to the present time, and it will 
 be seen that the cost of publishing the laws in the news- 
 papers has been about as follows : 
 
 la 1885, $76,388; in 1886, $47,919 ; in 1887, $90,052; 
 iind I will pause there for a moment to explain the dis- 
 crepancy in the year 1886. In that year this matter 
 was up and considered with much care, and so diffionlt 
 
PROMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 893 
 
 was it to settle the problem that it was agreed finally to 
 pass a law that |50,000 should be the limit of money 
 to be spent — considering that was extravagant. Yet we 
 did agree upon that, and passed it, and the Governor 
 and Comptroller were told to designate only so many 
 newspapers as could publish the laws for |50,00(); and 
 they did so, and $47,9-49 was the amount ; and yet, so 
 great was the pressure upon them that the laws were 
 given out to thirty or forty more newspapers besides 
 those, and they were published, and the Comptroller's 
 report came in the next year mentioning this fact, and 
 saying in effect that it had been done under the expecta- 
 tion that the Legislature would pay the bills the next 
 year. 
 
 Senator Skirm — In violation of the laws? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No; they had a right voluntarily to 
 print the laws if they chcse to. They did come in and 
 bring the necessary pressure, and with the concurrence 
 of the Governor they did get a law through, and they 
 did get $35,000, which we thought we had saved the 
 year before, in spite of the Legislature and everybody 
 else who thought they had saved some money. 
 
 In 1888 it was $79,999; in 1889, $59,123; in 1890, 
 $105,824; in 1891, $89,374; in 1892, $74,511; in 1893, 
 $90,314 ; in 1894, $78,538. 
 
 JSTow, I will show you that during this present year 
 of 1895, when you have passed some large bills (even 
 dropping out the Atlantic City Charter, No. 2, which 
 has been rejected by that city), it will cost $119,347 to 
 print the laws already passed, and assuming that the 
 Governor will sign one or two more in his hands, and 
 that the Legislature will pass a few more when they 
 come together in June, it will be no exaggeration to 
 say that the cost of printing the laws in the newspapers 
 this year will be $125,000, and if you print Chapter 2 
 the cost will be $9,000 more, or $134,000. I may say 
 right here with regard to Chapter 2 that it was a law 
 passed at the beginning of the session for Atlantic City ; 
 the people voted upon it and rejected it; it is no use to 
 anybody, but under the law you must publish it in 
 ninety-one papers in Sussex, in Warren, in Hudson, in 
 Essex, and all over this State, to the cost of $9,000, all 
 absolutely wasted money ; and so obvious was this that 
 the Chairman of the Committee and the Counsel 
 
894 PEOMULGATION OP THE LAWS. 
 
 requested the Secretary of State to withhold that uotil 
 the Legislature should reconvene in June, and see if they 
 wouldn't pass a brief act providing that it need not be 
 published, to relieve the Scale from that expense, and it 
 has been withheld. 
 
 COST OF PROMULGATION LAWS IN NEW JERSEY. 
 
 Year ending 
 October 3lst. 
 
 Paid to 
 
 each 
 
 newspaper. 
 
 Total paid for 
 publishing laws 
 in newspapers. 
 
 Volume of 
 laws. 
 
 Total for 
 
 promulgation 
 
 of laws. 
 
 1885 
 
 1608 
 
 $76,388 
 
 1,674 
 
 $78,062 
 
 1886 
 
 817 
 
 47,949 
 
 2,097 
 
 50,046 
 
 1887 
 
 519 
 
 90,052 
 
 1,303 
 
 91,355 
 
 1888 
 
 881 
 
 79,999 
 
 2,364 
 
 82,363 
 
 1889 
 
 668 
 
 ■ 59,123 
 
 2,025 
 
 61,148 
 
 1890 
 
 813- 
 
 105,824 
 
 1,829 
 
 107,653 
 
 1891 
 
 841 
 
 89,374 
 
 1,164 
 
 90,538 
 
 1892 
 
 729 
 
 74,511 
 
 1,766 
 
 76,277 
 
 189-3 
 
 847 
 
 90,-314 
 
 1,989 
 
 92,303 
 
 1894 
 
 878 
 
 78,538 
 
 1,884 
 
 80,422 
 
 1895 
 
 1,300 
 
 119,347 
 
 2,565 
 
 121,912 
 
 In examining into this subject I sent circulars to 
 eighteen States of the Union, including the six JSTew 
 England States, N"ew York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, 
 Virginia, and the great commercial States of the West, 
 Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri and Kentucky, and I 
 have received very courteous responses from the Secre- 
 taries of fifteen States, giving me their customs with 
 regard to this, and most of them have given me the 
 annual cost to those States of promulgating the laws, 
 and the result is most surprising. We are guilty here 
 of an extravagance that is unparalleled in any of those 
 fifteen States; 'New York and Pennsylvania are the. 
 only ones which at all approach the figures which we 
 show here. 
 
 Pennsylvania maintains the system of the publishing 
 the laws in the newspapers as we do here substantially, 
 and they do expend great sums of money just as we do 
 here; their population is thrice ours, their area six times 
 ours, their counties are about five times ours in number, 
 and their wealth is probably at least ten times ours, and 
 yet where we are going to spend this year in promul- 
 
PEOMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 895 
 
 gating our laws $125,000, they will spend only $190,000, 
 and they are exceptionally extravagant, as you will see. 
 New York State still maintains the publication of the 
 public laws in the newspapers and publish in two news- 
 papers of each of her sixty counties, and the appropriation 
 last year out of the State treasury for the whole matter 
 was $125,000. They have six times our area ; they have 
 three times as many counties as we; they have four 
 times our population, and they have, I suppose, twenty 
 times our wealth, and yet they spend less than we shall 
 spend. 
 
 Now, when you come to the other States, you will 
 find in most of them there is absolutely no publication 
 at all of laws in newspapers. 
 
 In the State of Maine tTaere is no publication of the 
 laws in the newspapers ; they publish a volume which 
 costs them $3,500 a year, but they do also publish from 
 the same type sheets which they will give to any news- 
 paper who asks them, to the full extent of their circula- 
 tion, if they want it, free ; it is all included in the $3,500. 
 The entire cost in Maine of promulgiiting the laws is 
 $3,500 ; that is, sheets, volumes and all. 
 
 In New Hampshire they print only public laws in the 
 newspapers, and they give them to each weekly paper 
 in the State printing them; and their volume of lavvs 
 cost them $1,800, and the printing in the newspapers 
 about $6,000, making about $7,800 altogether. 
 
 In Vermont the State pays for its volume of laws 
 $2,000, just about the same as here, and then prints one 
 hundred thousand cheap copies for circulation and 
 gives them to every newspaper that wants them, and 
 they pay the newspapers fifty cents a hundred for circu- 
 lating them. The total cost of the whole business in 
 Vermont is $4,000. 
 
 In Massachusetts they publish them in just one news- 
 paper, " The Boston Advertiser," and that costs $500 a 
 year, and that is all the State pays, except for the 
 volume of laws, which costs $2,000. Probably the entire 
 cost in Massachusets is $3,000. 
 
 The State Of Connecticut does not publish them in 
 the newspapers at all; they have a good edition of three 
 thousand copies for officers and attorneys which costs 
 $750; another cheap edition of twenty-five thousand 
 copies for the public, costing $750, and then they pub- 
 
896 PROMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 
 
 lish another volume of the special laws, making the 
 total cost in that State $2,500 a year. 
 
 Rhode Island publishes them in every newspaper in 
 the State ; they pay a dollar a page ; I don't know how 
 many, but they only publish them in the locality 
 affected; they don't publish every local law in every 
 paper in the State, as we do. 
 
 In Maryland they limit the cost to $600 per county, 
 and $1,800 in Baltimore. I guess there are about a 
 dozen counties in Maryland; about $12,000 or $15,000 
 in that State. 
 
 It costs Virginia $3,500 a year to publish the laws, 
 printing, binding and distributing them free to all of- 
 ficials, and the State Librarian keeps them on sale. A 
 number of the States have provision for the laws being 
 sold by the county and State officers after they have 
 given them out to the public officials. 
 
 Kentucky distributes them free to officials and to the 
 State Librarian ; do not publish in the newspapers ; cost 
 not stated. 
 
 Missouri does not publish in newspapers ; the annual 
 cost of promulgating the laws is about $5,000. 
 
 Illinois, with three or four million people, publishes 
 them not at all in newspapers, but the volume of laws 
 costs them $250 a year; they are distributed to all 
 branches of the State and municipal governments; 
 other people buy them. 
 
 Ohio prints in no newspapers, and the total cost in 
 that State is $7,000 a year, printing, binding and paper. 
 
 Michigan publishes in no newspapers ; total cost last 
 year, $7,1 36. 
 
 I inquired also whether they published their docu- 
 ments or laws in any language except the English lan- 
 guage. I had already learned that Louisiana, which 
 formerly promulgated her laws in French, had abolished 
 it some years ago. I find that no State publishes the 
 laws in any language except English, except that in 
 Connecticut, sometimes by special direction of the Gen- 
 eral Assembly a law is published in German. In Mary- 
 land there is provision for publishing in the German 
 language in one paper, I think, in Baltimore. And that 
 is all. In these great States, such States as Massachu- 
 setts and New York, and the New England States, and 
 Pennsylvania, nothing of the sort is known. 
 
CHARLES BECHTBL. 897 
 
 Charles Bechtel, recalled. 
 
 Examined by Me. Coebin. 
 
 Q. Have you examined the laws passed at the session of the 
 Nfiw Jersey Legislature ot 1895 are counted the amount of mat- 
 ter and estimated the cost of printing the same in the news- 
 papers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I 6how you a printed bill to the State of New Jersey for 
 publishing the following chapters, laws of the session of 1895 ; is 
 this bill made up by you ? J.. I count the folios, and the Comp- 
 troller's office makes up this list from that count ; I mark the 
 folios on each law. 
 
 Q. Under our system the laws are published — all laws are 
 published in all the designated newspapers? A. Yes, sir; ninety 
 of them. 
 
 Q. I see in this bill you have one column of five or six bills 
 called special laws for Bergen county, Burlington county, Glouces- 
 ter, Hunterdon, Morris and Somerset. With the exception of 
 those few bills, are all the laws passed published in all the news- 
 papers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, then, the laws passed relating to first class cities 
 would be published in Cape May ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And the laws passed relating to fourth-class cities would be 
 published in ISTewark and Jersey City? A, Yes, sir; whatever 
 was designated. 
 
 Q. And the laws relating to boroughs would be published in 
 Newark and Jersey City? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you estimated what each newspaper will receive for 
 printing the laws already passed, omitting chapter 2, the Atlantic 
 City charter? A, There are 3,249, at 40 cents, amounts to 
 $1,299.60; that doesn't include the "Law Journal" at all. 
 
 Q. The " Law Journal " is paid at a higher price ? A. 60 cents. 
 
 Q. Have you an estimate here of what the " Law Journal " 
 will get? J.. Yes, sir ; $2,117.70. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — They get more money ? A. Yee, sir ; 
 they get 60 cents by special act. 
 
 Q. And are these figures on the back of this blank your 
 figures? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The total estimate stated here for printing the laws this 
 year is $121,912.30 ; what will it cost to print the Atlantic City 
 Charter, Chapter No. 2 ? A. li will cost to publish in all the 
 papers about $9,000. 
 
 Q. Is that all the newspapers — are there only ninety in the 
 State ? A. Ninety designated this year, 
 
 57 SH 
 
898 CHARLES BECHTEL. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What does this designation here in 
 this last column for special laws for different counties mean T 
 A. Relating specially to those counties. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— There are so many laws passed by 
 this Legislature that only pertain to first class counties ? A^ 
 Yes, sir; I don't know why that distinction is made. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will state that in the printing law it is 
 provided that acts which relate to only one county shall 
 be printed only in that county, and. that has , been con- 
 strued very strictly to mean an act which relates to the 
 exact limits of that county ; but more than half of all 
 these acts on their very face show that they relate only 
 to certain districts, and yet they are all printed every- 
 where under the present law. For instance, you know 
 these long acts like the Newark and Jersey City Char- 
 ters, the face of the act shows that they can only apply 
 in those cities, but Cape May and Sussex papers print 
 them; the Newark Park Act, a long act, is being 
 printed in Cape May and Gloucester and Warren and 
 Sussex, and everywhere else. 
 Q. Have the newspapers been designated this year ? A. Yes^ 
 sir. 
 
 Q. I show you a printed schedule from the office of the Secre- 
 tary of State ; is this the designated list ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 State of New Jersey, Department oe State, 
 
 March 28th, 1895. 
 The following newspapers were designated to publish the law& 
 of the session of the Legislature of 1895 : 
 
 Atlantic Times-Democrat Atlantic City. 
 
 Eecord Mays Landing. 
 
 South Jersey Republican Hammonton. 
 
 Bergen Bergen County Democrat Hackensack. 
 
 Republican Hackensack. 
 
 Times Englewood. 
 
 Burlington. ...Dispatch Mount Holly. 
 
 Gazette Burlington. 
 
 Mew Jersey Mirror Mount Holly. 
 
 News Mount Holly. 
 
 Register Bordentown. 
 
 Camden Democrat Camden. 
 
 Review Camden. 
 
 Advertiser Gloucester City. 
 
PBOMULGATION OP THE LAWS. 899 
 
 Camden Daily Telegram Camden. 
 
 Courier Camden. 
 
 Daily Post Camden. 
 
 Cape May Cape May County Times Sea Isle City. 
 
 Sentinel Ocean City. 
 
 Cumberland..Pioneer Bridgeton. 
 
 New Jersey Patriot Bridgeton. 
 
 Republican Millville. 
 
 Essex ..New Jersey DeutcheZeitung(Ger.). Newark. 
 
 Herald ....Orange. 
 
 New Jersey Freie Zeitung Ger.)... Newark. 
 
 Daily Advertiser Newark. 
 
 Journal Orange. 
 
 Gazette East Orange. 
 
 Times Montclair. 
 
 Evening News Newark. 
 
 Sunday Call Newark. 
 
 Gloucester.... Gloucester County Democrat Woodbury. 
 
 Constitution Woodbury. 
 
 Enterprise Glaasboro. 
 
 Hudson Herald and Gazette Jersey City. 
 
 News Jersey City. 
 
 Democrat Jersey City. 
 
 Evening News Hoboken. 
 
 Evening Journal Jeisey City. 
 
 Chronicle Jersey City. 
 
 Hunterdon ...Democrat- Advertiser Elemington. 
 
 Democrat Clinton. 
 
 Hunterdon County Democrat Elemington. 
 
 Hunterdon Gazette.. High Bridge. 
 
 Mercer True American .Trenton. 
 
 Sunday Advertiser Trenton. 
 
 State Gazette Trenton. 
 
 Press , Princeton. 
 
 New Jersey Staats Journal (Ger.). .Trenton. 
 Middlesex Press Cranbury. 
 
 Democrat Perth Amboy. 
 
 Times New Brunswick. 
 
 Home News New Brunswick. 
 
 Monmouth.... New Jersey Stnndard Red Bank. 
 
 Monmouth Inquirer Freehold. 
 
 Journal Matawan. 
 
 Times Long Branch. 
 
 Democrat Freehold. 
 
900 PROMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 
 
 Morris True Democrat Banner Morristown. 
 
 Index Dover. 
 
 Iron Era Dover. 
 
 Jerseyman Morristown. 
 
 Express Morristown. 
 
 Bulletin Boonton. 
 
 Ocean Ocean County Democrat Toms Eiver. 
 
 Times and Journal Lakewood. 
 
 Passaic Guardian Paterson. 
 
 Herald Passaic. 
 
 Press Paterson. 
 
 Morning Call Paterson. 
 
 Daily News Passaic. 
 
 Salem Sunbeam Salem. 
 
 National Standard Salem. 
 
 Monitor-Register Woodstown. 
 
 Somerset Messenger Somerville. 
 
 Democrat Somerville. 
 
 Unionist-Gazette Somerville. 
 
 Sussex N'ew Jersey Herald Newton. 
 
 Sussex Register Newton. 
 
 Union Union Democrat Rahway. 
 
 Constitutionalist Plainfield. 
 
 Record Summit. 
 
 Central New Jersey Herald .Elizabeth. 
 
 Advocate Rahway. 
 
 Daily Journal Elizabeth. 
 
 Courier-News Plainfield. 
 
 Warren Gazette Hackettstown. 
 
 Star Washington. 
 
 Apollo Belvidere. 
 
 Warren Tidings Washington. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Committee will see that there are 
 ninety newspapers designated here, a list which is the 
 extreme limit at the present time by the law of 1894, 
 which provides for ninety newspapers ; in addition to 
 that is the New " Jersey Law Journal," which is by a 
 special act. 
 
 In our printing law there is a provision that the laws 
 shall not be printed from plates, except the plates are 
 made in the office of the newspaper where printed, and 
 you will see an affidavit on the back of the bill which I 
 
CHAELES H. BATEMAN. 901 
 
 have handed up that these laws are not printed from 
 plates. 
 
 Charles H. Bateman, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mb. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Where do you reside ? A. Somerville. 
 
 Q. What is your occupation ? A. Newspaper man. 
 
 Q. What newspaper do you print? A. lam connected with 
 the publication of the " Unionist-Gazette," of Somerville. 
 
 Q. Are you the editor of that paper ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Does your office print the laws for the " Unionist-Gazette " ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your office also publishes, does it not, the " New Jersey 
 Law Journal"? A. Yes, sir; prints it. 
 
 Q. I show you a circular ; was that issued from your office ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. When? A. About the time the papers were designated; 
 I can't tell exactly. 
 
 Q. That is a few weeks ago ? A. About the time the Legisla- 
 ture adjourned. 
 
 Q. The circular is as follows : 
 
 " Somerville, N. J. 
 " Can we arrange to furnish the Session Laws of 1895 for your 
 journal? 
 
 " We will set laws in solid nonpariel (and print sheets directly 
 from the type) just as rapidly as they issue from the Governor. 
 " Our charges will be : 
 
 " Composition, 1^ cents per 1,000 ems. 
 " Press work, per form, $2 per 1,000 or less. 
 " Paper at cost. 
 Your earliest attention is requested. 
 
 " Very respectfully, 
 
 " The Unionist-Gazette Association." 
 
 Q. Tj whom did you send these ? A. Sent them to quite a 
 large number of papers through the State, not all. 
 
 Q. And did some of them respond? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And gave you orders for the sheets of the laws? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How many 1 A. 1 can't tell ; I think I gave you a list. 
 
 Q. Some twenty-seven ? A. Something like twenty-five, I 
 think. 
 
 Q. I show you a list of newspapers ; is that the list of those 
 who ordered it? A.. Yes, sir; that is right. 
 
902 CHARLES H. BATEMAN. 
 
 List of Newspapers for whom the. Laws v)fre printed by the Unionist- 
 Gazette Association. 
 
 "Hunterdon Gazette," High Bridge, Rep. W. G. 
 
 Tomer. 
 " Unionist-Gazette," Somerville. Bateman and Robbins 
 
 as the Som.-Un. Aseo. 
 " The Somerset Messenger," Somerville. John H. 
 
 Mattison. 
 <' Somerset Democrat," Somerville. D. N. Messier. 
 " The Constitutionalist," Plainfield. A. L. Force. 
 " Union Democrat," Rahway. Lewis S. Hyer. 
 " Clinton Democrat," Clinton. John Carpenter, Jr. 
 " Home News," New Brunswick. Hugh Boyd, James 
 
 Logue, Rec. 
 "Passaic Daily News." News Pub. Co., D. W. Ma- 
 honey, Ed. 
 " Central New Jersey Herald," Elizabeth. F. S. Lock- 
 
 wood. 
 "Washington Star," Washington. Charles L. Stryker- 
 " Plainfield Courier News," Plainfield. F. W. Runyon. 
 " Orange Herald," Orange. Hon. Thos. F. Lane. 
 "Orange Journal," Orange. Edgar Williams. 
 " Montclair Times," Montclair. A. C. Studer. 
 " New Brunswick Times," New Brunswick. The 
 
 Times Pub. Co. J. D. Chandlee. 
 " The Advocate," Rahway. H. B. Rollinson. 
 " Long Branch Times," Long Branch. Jacob Stults. 
 " The Summit Record," Summit. Thomas F. Lane. 
 " The Press," Princeton. C. S. Robinson & Co. 
 "Gazette," Hightstown. Thomas B. Appleget, Pub.; 
 
 Fred. B., Ed. 
 "The Bulletin," Boonton. Samuel L. Garrison. 
 " Daily Herald," Passaic. Vanderhoven & Engeman. 
 " East Orange Gazette," E. 0. Charles Starr. 
 "The Register," Newton. Richard F. Goodman. 
 " The N. J. Herald, Newton. Jacob L. Bunnell. 
 " The New Jersey Law Journal," Plainfield. A. V. D. 
 
 Honeyman. 
 Q. In furnishing these newspapers do you print the name of 
 the newspaper at the head ot the sheet? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And such date as they give you ? A. Some ot them we 
 print the date of their issue on, and others we do not, as they 
 want. 
 
CHAELES H.. BATEMAN. 903 
 
 Q. And you give them as many copies as they desire for their 
 circulation? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you also make the page of such a size that it will con- 
 form to their issue? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The sheets which you furnish to the different newspapers 
 are all printed from the same type, and you print your own news- 
 paper from the same type ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And for the " Law Journal " from the same type ?. A. Yes, 
 sir; all made up differently. 
 
 Q. To fit the page of these diff'erent papers ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I show the Committee some twenty newspapers from differ- 
 ent parts of the State ; for example, the " Summit Record." Mr. 
 Thomas F. Lane's paper, and the " Orange Herald," also Lane's 
 paper. Did Mr. Lane take two? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. One for each of his papers? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Does he publish two papers ? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. These are all printed by you, are they? A. Yes, sir; I 
 think all ; I didn't pay attention when you first began reading 
 the list, but they are all there. 
 
 Q. I see that these papers are of different sizes and shapes, so 
 that your columns have to be arranged for the printing of the 
 different editions ? A. Yes, sir ; the make-up is different for the 
 different sizes; probably five or six different sizes. 
 
 Q. Do these rates that you have stated in your circular apply 
 to all papers having a circulation of a thousand for a complete 
 copy of the laws so far as promulgated this year ? A. We charge 
 71 cents a thousand. 
 
 Q. What does the bill come to? A. $61.25 for the composi- 
 tion. 
 
 Q. And how much for the press-work for a thousand copies? 
 A. If it is a four-page paper, why, it is $2 a form; if it is an 
 eight-page paper, why, it is f 4. 
 
 Q. About what does it come to ? ^. It is hard to tell. 
 
 Q. Well, suppose a two-page paper? A. It is twice as much 
 as if it is an eight-sheet paper. 
 
 Q. How many sheets are there? A. I don't know how I can 
 hardly average that: the amount runs from about $95 to $150. 
 
 Q. For the whole bill? A. For the different papers; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — For the laws that have been published 
 up to this time, or the entire laws? A. Up to this time; they 
 are all completed now ; we have completed all laws we are pub- 
 lishing. 
 
904 CHARLES Hj BATEMAN. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— Then, do I understand that you get 
 $95 for what the State, according to Mr. Bechtel, pays $1,299 
 for ? A. (No answer). 
 
 §. Your whole bill to the newspaper is about what ? A. $95 
 to $150; that is all we charge these papers. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — "What I want to know is, here are 
 two papers that are published by the same party in two difierent 
 towns, the Orange " Herald " and the Summit " Record ; " who 
 is the publisher of those ? A. Thomas F. Lane. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then, here is a gentleman that gets 
 twice $1,299, or about $2,600, for which he pays how much? 
 Senator Ketcham — It averages $120 a paper. 
 
 A. That doesn't include the cost of circulating these papers. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I would be very glad to circulate 
 them at any such price as that. 
 
 Witness — I was going to say that each of these 
 papers if they do the work individually, of course, it 
 would cost them a great deal more. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But instead of their doing the work 
 individually and spending the money among the printers as a 
 benevolent act, they come in and simply pay you about $125 
 and they reap about $1,300 from the State. Now, if it coiild be 
 done that way the State might just as well publish them in one 
 place and pay $125 and circulate them all through the State. A. 
 Yes, sir ; but the circulation is something too. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Who reads them after they are cir- 
 culated? They go in the waste basket, I understand. A. We 
 get 60 cents a folio for all our legal advertising, and we ODly get 
 40 cents for this. 
 
 Q. These twenty-seven papers whom you served with these 
 sheets pay you on an average for it $125 apiece, — those that have 
 a small circulation of a thousand copies, or less, pay you $95 
 apiece? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that they get a profit of about $1,200, or a little over, for 
 circulating the paper ? A. If you don't count the circulating ; 
 yes, sir. 
 
 q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — It nets, then, $1,200? A. I sup- 
 pose so. You understand that we have to set this type up for 
 our own paper, and we publish the "Law Journal," and of course 
 the type is standing, and that is the reason we can do it at that 
 figure. 
 
 Q,. (By Senator Skirm) — But you have already done the work 
 for yourselves ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
CHARLES H. bateman; 905 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Therefore you do it cheaply because 
 the forms are already set up ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — But supposing thatthese other gentle- 
 men did the same thing, it would cost them just as 
 much to set it up as it costs you ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — You mentioned that these news- 
 papers circulated the laws, and I understand that $1,200 is paid 
 for the circulation of the laws ; is that the way they regard it ? 
 A. I don't know, sir ; how they regard it. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Let me ask you at the same time, 
 would these papers not circulate, whether they had these laws or 
 not ? A. The ordinary edition would, I suppose.- 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhess) — Then they simply send these 
 along with their ordinary edition, so that it entails no additional 
 cost on them for circulating the laws. A. ISTo ; unless you con- 
 sider their columns are of some value as advertising mediums. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — But these are separate sheets 
 apart from the columns that would be devoted to advertising. 
 A. Published in this way they are. 
 
 Q. You don't take any of their columns ; you put it on an 
 entirely separate sheet of paper ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You furnish the separate sheet of 
 paper upon which these laws are printed ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You don't furnish the blocks or 
 the electrotypes ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — You furnish the paper already 
 printed ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — There is no electrotype about it ? 
 A. No, sir ; it is all printed from type. 
 
 Q. These papers, as we see them here, are all made in Somer- 
 ville, aren't they ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 0. And sent out by you by express to the diflerent news- 
 papers ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And they can fold one inside of each of their weekly papers 
 and send it around by mail or otherwise ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And you get $100 for doing that, and they get $1,200 for 
 what they do? A. Yes, sir; in other words, when we send out 
 our paper we send out another sheet numbered right on from the 
 regular number. 
 
 Q. Wasn't the " Dover Index " getting up a list also this 
 year ? A. I can't tell you, sir. 
 
 Q. Didn't you take a list off their hands ? A. No, sir, I didn't. 
 
 Q. Did you get together your entire list yourself, or take a list 
 
906 CHARLES BECHTEL. 
 
 ofi somebody else's hands? A. "We took the list ofl of the 
 " Plainfield Courier's " hands. 
 
 Q. Which they had been getting together in the same way ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. This system has been in vogue for a considerable time, has 
 it not ? A. Yes, sir, I presume it has; I don't know anything 
 about it except for the last two or three years. 
 Q. You have done it for three years? Yes, sir. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm)— It is in violation of law? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The laws are printed much better than 
 they would be if they were printed by these country 
 newspapers, when it is done in this way. 
 
 Witness — Where the work is being done in the estab- 
 lishment most of the country papers can't get the laws 
 out within the time, because they haven't the type. The 
 law requires that it shall be gotten out within sixty days 
 from the time the copy is furnished by the Secretary of 
 State. 
 Q. Then some of these papers couldn't physically do it in 
 compliance with the law in the time? A. 'No, sir. 
 
 Q. They haven't the type to do it? A. They have the type to 
 do it slowly. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Their issue isn't frequent enough 
 to let them do it within the sixty days ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is another way of printing the 
 laws, which is called " patent outsides," and I will show 
 you newspapers who circulate the laws printed in that 
 way ; the '' patent outside " people print the entire out- 
 side of the newspapers, including the laws of New Jer- 
 sey, and send them to the people here ; that is done I 
 don't know by how many people, but it is certainly done 
 by the New York Newspaper Union, at 134 Leonard 
 street, New York, and they have got about twenty news- 
 papers of New Jersey on their list, and are printing the 
 New Jersey Laws in Leonard street and sending them 
 to the newspapers here, and they inform us that they 
 had a list of fifty last year of the New Jersey papers; 
 this year they have got twenty on their list. 
 
 Charles Bechtel, recalled. 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. Mr. Bechtel, I show you a copy of the " Jersey City Dem- 
 ocrat," with the laws of New Jersey printed on pages 2 and 3 ; 
 
CHAELES BECHTEL. 907 
 
 it is the issue of May 18th, 1895 ; is that what you call a "patent 
 inside?" A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What is a patent inside ? A. Sheets furnished by some- 
 body else for the newspaper ipublishing it, that is, the regular 
 side for the newspaper. 
 
 Q. The "Jersey City Democrat" then, when they buy their 
 paper, get it with pages 2 and 3 already printed ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And the publisher simply sets up and prints pages 1 and 
 4 ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is from the New York Newspaper Union? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — I think you ought to state that 
 page 2 of the " Jersey City Democrat " is made up 
 entirely of the Laws of New Jersey. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes; and page 3, as you will see, has 
 some laws and some patent medicine advertisements ; 
 if you will observe pages 2 and 3 you will see nothing 
 at all that is local to Jersey City. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Forty papers can buy these and 
 print their local news on the other side? 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. 
 Q. Look at the "Burlington Grazette?" A. That is a patent 
 outside. 
 
 Q. There you see pages 1 and 4 are printed by the Newspaper 
 Union? A. And the inside pages are printed at Burlington. 
 
 Chairman Yoorhees — Pages 1 and 4 are made up of 
 the laws of the State of New Jersey. 
 Q. Look at the "Chronicle" of Jersey City, an eight- page 
 paper. What do you call that? A. I would call that a patent 
 inside again. 
 
 Q. That is, on three or four of its pages the laws of New Jer- 
 sey and advertisements of patent medicines, etc., and the other 
 four pages seem to be printed in Jersey City. Look at the 
 " Matawan Journal " of April 20 ; that is a six page paper ; 
 what is that? A. That is a mixture — no, the two pages on the 
 inside are patent. 
 
 Q. That is a patent inside, isn't it? A. Three pages there are 
 patent. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — May I ask of the witness, as an 
 expert, whether or not these patent outsides or insides are not 
 printed from plates ? A. They are supposed to be printed from 
 type ; they claim that they print those from type. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Ketcham) — So that they could take the oath 
 that they had not been printed in plates ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
908 CHARLES BECHTEL. 
 
 Q. I show you " The Millville Kepublican"; how is that? A. 
 That is an inset sheet. 
 
 Q. That inset sheet is the laws? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Look at "The Dover Index," of April 26th, which ia an 
 eight-page paper; what is that? A. Same kind, something in 
 two pages; that is just an inset. 
 
 A. " The Cranbury Press " ; what is that? A. A patent out- 
 side. 
 
 Q. And " The Warren Tidings " ? A. That is another inset. 
 Q. All these I have shown you you have marked J3 ; have you 
 examined them to see whether they were printed from the same 
 types ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. They are the same, are they ? ^. I think so. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Those, I believe, all to be part of the 
 list of twenty that The New York N'ewspaper Union 
 has. There are some others here, but these will serve 
 as samples. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Then it would appear that if the 
 State made a contract with somebody to publish these 
 laws in this fashioa that they could have saved about 90 
 per cent, of the whole cost. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Ye?, fully 90 per cent.; we could have 
 done it for just what they did. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — The smaller papers pay $95 and 
 they get $1,299; so they make $1,204 out of the trans- 
 action ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Ketchara — Less the cost of circulation. Then, 
 out of the $125,000 paid by the State for this work, 
 enough could have been saved to put up that reforma- 
 tory at Rah way. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is a certain addition of postage 
 then to be paid, but you will be safe in saying that there 
 is an average profit of $1,200 to every newspaper that 
 prints the laws in this way. 
 
 The New York Newspaper Union informs us that 
 their price for setting its patent outsides was seven 
 cents per thousand ems ; it is a trifle less than the Som- 
 erville prices. They furnish the paper at cost. 
 
 Now, there is still another method of publishing the 
 laws. 
 Q. Mr. Bechtel, do you know about this plan of one news- 
 paper in a town setting the type and lending it to the others ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
CHAELBS BECHTEL. 909 
 
 Q. That IB the custom in some places? A. Yes, sir; that is 
 done in South Jersey. 
 
 Q. I think Mr. Chew on the stand testified that that was done 
 in Camden. A. These papers mostly from that section do it. 
 
 Q, In Camden he said that one party would send it around, 
 back and forth, and three or four editions would be taken from 
 the same type ? A. They used to do it in Trenton here ; the 
 " True American " set one-half and the " Gazette " set the other 
 half. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, it is very obvious that this news- 
 paper printing business has been something truly in the 
 line of what Mr. ITaar suggested this morning — it is 
 political bounty — it is nothing else. Under the present 
 law it is awarded to forty-five Democratic papers and 
 forty-five Republican papers, and to the " New Jersey 
 Law Journal." You see, if it were desired to do it for 
 what it is worth — what a merchant would do it for — it 
 would be done, as it is in Connecticut or "Vermont, for 
 a trifling sum of money — $1,800 or $2,000 — but that is 
 not the purpose. The purpose is to give the ninety 
 selected newspapers this bounty, as it is now, of more 
 than a hundred thousand dollars out of the State 
 Treasury. 
 
 Now, observe the inequity of it. You will see by 
 looking at newspaper lists that there are 231 news- 
 papers in New Jersey. Why should ninety of them be 
 singled out to publish these laws and 141 of them have 
 no such help from the treasury? Are these any more 
 meritorious than those who do not get it ? It is not 
 done with a view to circulation — not with any special 
 view to it; it is simply political preference. It is not 
 only unfair, it is, as I have shown you, grossly extrava- 
 gant. It is unparalleled. No other State does it, with 
 the exceptions I have stated, and they to no such extent. 
 I think there is a still more serious side to it. To these 
 small papers in the country $1,200 a year, or five or six 
 hundred dollars, is a very serious matter. And they 
 come here and beseech the Governor, and they beseech 
 the Comptroller and members of the Legislature to get 
 their papers put upon this list. Some of them are dis- 
 appointed ; some succeed. But I think the serious part 
 of it 18 that those ninety who succeed, and the others 
 who fail, but expect to succeed next year, are stifled. 
 They don't talk out as newspapers ought to, and if the 
 
910 PROMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 
 
 press is to be what the press is supposed to be — the de- 
 fender of liberties, the exposer of abuses, the fearless 
 critic of public officers — it should not have its voice 
 choked with a gift of a thousand dollars a year from the 
 State government. If the newspaper that has been 
 designated by the Governor finds something to criticise 
 in his conduct, how can it go from these halls straight 
 home and write an editorial fearlessly criticising the 
 Governor who has just put a thousand dollars into its 
 till, and who will withhold it the next year if they criti- 
 cise him too severely ? 
 
 If a Republican publisher sees something amiss in the 
 Comptroller's conduct which should be criticised, how 
 can he go home and expose the misconduct with the 
 bounty of a thousand dollars in his pocket? That is 
 the mischievous part of it, and to my mind that is as 
 much more important than the hundred thousand 
 dollars a year which is flung away from the treasury as 
 principles are more important than dollars. 
 
 What do we see when abuses do occur in this State ? 
 By whom are they exposed ? By the New Jersey press ? 
 Too often, no. These reforms are started, these agita- 
 tions are commenced in Philadelphia and New York, 
 and by those papers who get no money out of our 
 treasury; too often it is only when our New Jersey 
 papers are lashed into the movement by public opinion 
 that they speak out and take a hand in the reform. 
 That is the history of this State for the past twenty 
 yeare, and I think that the question is infinitely serious 
 to the welfare of the State, not because of the waste of 
 a hundred thousand dollars a year, but because the gift 
 does inevitably tend to choke the voice of the press. 
 Mr. Naar's statement was entirely true, for this thing 
 has been recognized by both parties as a political bounty, 
 and the result is that you could have gone to almost any 
 city or town and looked in vain to find a paper which 
 fearlessly spoke out against its own party, or the other 
 party, for that matter ; for you observe that to desiguate 
 the papers, two officers must agree ; you must not only 
 find favor with the Governor, who is of your own party, 
 but you must find it with the Comptroller, who is of the 
 opposite party, and so the ninety newspapers that are 
 designated, no matter of what party, quietly keep still 
 
PROMULGATION OP THE LAWS. 911 
 
 about not only the officers of their own side, but the 
 officers on the other. 
 
 Now, here is where the mischief exists. Those 
 within the hearing of my voice, who have been in pub- 
 lic life, all have seen it. They have seen the reluctance 
 of certain newspapers to speak out when they ought to 
 speak out. For my part, I see but one remedy for the 
 whole fhing, and that is to do what almost all the States 
 have done, to wipe out the whole thing. Make some 
 further promulgation of your laws. Publish a hundred 
 thousand copies, if you will, but don't throw away and 
 waste one hundred thousand dollars, which, I assure 
 you, the treasury can ill-afford at the present time. 
 And, in the second place, don't stifle the voice of ninety 
 of the principal newspapers of this State. 
 
 Now, I suppose you may say that these newspapers 
 won't keep still for the sake of a paltry thousand dollars. 
 Won't they ? This patronage means other patronage, 
 other things follow in the wake of it. Moreover, we all 
 recognize the peculiar effect of a bounty. Many of the 
 States have recognized the fact that a gift will go much 
 further than a mere matter of liberal payment. 
 
 The action of Congress in forbidding the use of 
 passes on railroads under the inter-state commerce law 
 is a recognition of it; the New York constitutional 
 clause forbidding passes to public officers is a recogni- 
 tion of it. A mere free pass from Albany to New York 
 is a small matter; and yet such favors do so work on 
 the minds of men that a man will show favoritism be- 
 cause of them, while he would spurn a bribe of a thou- 
 sand dollars. There is an element of friendliness in the 
 bounty, an element of favoritism and partisanship in it 
 which appeals to the human mind ; and when you apply 
 it to the newspapers of a great State and practically 
 tempt all of them to keep silence about State affairs, 
 you see how serious the matter may become ; and I 
 assert that it is now a very serious matter in this State, 
 and in saying that I want to recognize the fact that there 
 are many exceptions, and that most of the newspapers 
 at the present time have overcome the temptation to a 
 de'gree under the stimulus of public opinion, and are 
 independently and freely helping to do what we all are 
 trying to accomplish. 
 
912 PEOMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — What you say is exactly true, and 
 yet some of these papers, meet of them, I think, are 
 now speaking out very freely ; I refer to two papers in 
 Newark. Last night the " News " and "Advertiser," the 
 "Advertiser" criticised keenly this work of letting the 
 Big Four go, and the " News " was one paper of all the 
 papers in the State that started this investigation. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir ; there are independent papers 
 in Newark ; I don't think the criticisms I have ever 
 made ever applied to the Newark " News " : there are 
 exceptions ; but yet it is true that many of the papers of 
 this State, in the matter of criticism of public ofHcers, 
 have followed in the wake of New York and Philadel- 
 phia papers; I believe the newspaper men in this room 
 would confirm that statement ; it has been so for years. 
 
 You have come, in the investigation, to a subject that 
 has a very serious side. I am not producing this evi- 
 dence to show any fraud on the part of these newspaper 
 men; I don't say anything about what they have done; 
 it is in the law; the law was made to give them the 
 bounty ; it is on the statute book as a standing present 
 every year to the newspapers who are lucky enough to 
 be designated ; but the question is whether you are 
 going to allow that to be continued. 
 
 In the first place, it takes an enormous part of the 
 revenues, and if it is allowed to continue you will have 
 to speedily provide some way to raise more revenue. 
 The other consideration I have presented. 
 
 In times like the past two or three years, and the 
 present, when people are so straightened in their 
 circumstances, and business has been so unprofitable 
 and unpromising, and men are anxious about the 
 present and the future, how can those in charge of the 
 public aflairs justify the continuance of a system which 
 flings away a hundred thousand dollars, a matter of 
 one-twelfth or one-fifteenth of the ordinary revenues 
 of the State ? 
 
 Most of the States have dealt with the question by 
 giving up the publication of the laws in newspapers ; 
 New York and Pennsylvania have been through the 
 same travail ; they yet keep up the old method to a 
 degree, but we excel them all in extravagance when 
 you take into consideration the size and wealth of our 
 
CHARLES BECHTEL. 913 
 
 State — far surpass them all this year, in actual figures, 
 all except Pennsylvania. 
 
 As to what the Committee shall do and what shall be 
 recommended, that is a matter for careful consideration. 
 These fifteen States that responded to our circular give 
 a good many hints of what may be done ; for instance, 
 some of the New England States that give out copies 
 spend about three or four thousand dollars a year ; their 
 plan would furnish everybody with the laws. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — You say it cost two thousand dol- 
 lars a year for these laws that are set up for the law- 
 yers ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The volumes cost about |1,600 or $1,800. 
 Senator Ketcham — Suppose we had a couple of thou- 
 sand of them put in paper covers. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Suppose you had ten thousand ; the ex- 
 pense wouldn't exceed $1,.500. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — The people don't read these laws. 
 Senator Skirm — I think the question goes far deeper 
 than the question of dollars ; it is simply the whole press 
 of the State, or very nearly so, has been muzzled for 
 years against abuses that we all know, and yet they 
 haven't had the courage to expose them ; otherwise, 
 if they had, there would, I think, have been very little 
 reason for this Investigating Committee. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think it goes as deep as that ; I think 
 it affects the freedom and the independence of the press 
 of the State. 
 Q. Mr. Bechtel, you have had a great deal of experience in ■ 
 this matter of printing ; have you anything to suggest about the 
 proper promulgation of the laws ? J.. I don't know of any better 
 method than that Connecticut method ; that is, a thousand 
 copies on good paper, and one hundred or two hundred thousand 
 on other kind of paper wouldn't cost half what is costs now. 
 
 Q. How would you circulate them ? A. Adopt their method ; 
 give the newspapers so much a hundred for circulating them, if 
 necessary — if they won't circulate them without. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The Secretary of State has made some 
 suggestions about this matter of promulgating the laws. 
 I would like to have them presented to the Committee. 
 Mr. Kelsey — As this matter has been one with which 
 I have had more or less conduct for years gone by, fcr 
 many years I was a member of the board to designata 
 
914 PROMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 
 
 the newspapers; I have not been now for some time 
 past, and send out the copy, &c. 
 
 Discussing the matter with Mr. Corbin, I, in a gen- 
 eral way, outlined the scheme which I had in mind for 
 a long time, which I consider entirely practicable, and 
 it would be economical, and it would, it seems to me,, 
 secure a sufficient promulgation of the laws, perfectly, 
 which is not now the case very frequently, and effi- 
 ciently. 
 
 To my knowledge aad the knowledge of you all there 
 have been years within the last ten when the news- 
 papers were not even designated to publish the laws 
 until mid-summer, though I believe the act requires 
 that it shall be done within ten days after the meeting 
 of the Legislature ; but more than once the Legislature 
 has finished its work, and weeks, and in some cases 
 months have elapsed before the subject has been taken 
 up — before the Board has been called together by the 
 Grovernor, who is always the Chairman. 
 
 This is the scheme that I outlined to Mr. Corbin ; 
 That an additional number of copies of forms of the 
 book of laws might be printed ; for instance, eight thou- 
 sand copies of the book of laws are now required, I be- 
 lieve, annually. They are printed in forms of sixteen 
 pages each ; the form is the technical expression which 
 the printer uses — embraces sixteen pages of the book, 
 and I believe the estimate to the Comptroller is in that 
 shape, so much a form of sixteen pages ; the exact fig- 
 ures I have not. The laws, on approval of the Governor, 
 are filed in the office of the Secretary of State ; immedi- 
 ately upon such filing copy could be furnished to the 
 printer of the book of laws, the session laws for 
 the year, always within two or three days — five days, 
 I should say, would be a reasonable limit. I would 
 have the bids for printing the book of laws sub- 
 mitted to the Comptroller in advance of the meeting 
 of the Legislature or during the month of January, say. 
 And it is very seldom indeed any law is enacted and has 
 the approval of the Governor before the first of Feb- 
 ruary. 
 
 During the month of January I would have the con- 
 tract closed with the printer of the book of laws. I 
 would have him print eight thousand copies of the book 
 and lay them aside ; I would have him print say three 
 
PROMULGATION OP THE LAWS. 915 
 
 thousand or five thousand copies additional and fold 
 them and cut them, perhaps, and deliver them to the 
 custodian of public documents or the Secretary of State 
 or Comptroller — deliver them here to the State House, 
 and make it the duty of the custodian to place five 
 copies upon the table of every member every Monday 
 evening on the assembling of the Legislature ; to deliver 
 one or two or three copies to every public officer, every 
 Justice cf the Supreme Court, some to every County 
 Clerk, Surrogate, Sheriff, Auditor, to all Judges of the 
 inferior courts, and the officials having offices of record, 
 like county clerks, &c. I would require them to keep a 
 file of those laws open for public inspection ; a little 
 binder costing half a dollar at retail, I think, would 
 contain them, and keep them in nice order. Every 
 member, every official would within ten days of the 
 approval of every act have a copy of it ; within fifteen 
 or twenty days after the adjournment of the Legislature 
 and the disposal by the Governor of the acts in his 
 hands the book of laws would be ready for issue, and as 
 you gentlemen of the bar all know now they are not 
 issued until weeks and weeks and often times months 
 after the adjournment of the session. 
 
 You can broaden the scope of distribution as much as 
 is thought proper; send them to every justice of the 
 peace, if you please ; their address is a matter of record 
 in my office ; they are commissioned by the Governor — 
 and to every town clerk, and require all those officers — 
 let these little binders be sent out with the first issue 
 and require every one of those officers to keep a file on 
 record open to public inspection. 
 
 I am not familiar with the cost of printing, but I ven- 
 ture to say that the total cost, including postage, distri- 
 bution, &c., would not exceed $10,000 or $15,000; 
 the distribution would be prompt, immediate ; every 
 Senator would know every week just what laws had 
 been approved by the Governor, having a copy on his 
 desk ; he could have five, or ten, or twenty copies, and 
 he himself with an allowance for postage could send 
 them to his friends ; it seems to me that that would be a 
 practical scheme, and I have thought so for years and 
 have gone over it for years, and that is the scheme that 
 I talked over with Mr. Corbin recently. 
 
916 JOHN M. BONNELL. 
 
 John M. Bonnell recalled. 
 
 Examined by Mb. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You have chargeof the distribution of the laws? A. Yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Have you a list of the number that you send to each county 
 collector? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is this it? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Wheu do you send those out? A. As soon as they are 
 printed ; last year they were printed at Camden, and I sent my 
 doeament clerk to Camden and shipped them direct from there 
 to the county collectors throughout the State. 
 
 Q.- But you can't send them out, of course, until the entire 
 edition is printed ? A. Certainly not. 
 
 The following are the number of laws sent to the 
 county collectors : 
 
 Counties. Number. Address. 
 
 Atlantic 200 Mays Landing. 
 
 Bergen 200 Hackensack. 
 
 Burlington 300 Mount Holly. 
 
 Camden 300 Camden. 
 
 Cape May 200 Cape May C. H. 
 
 Cumberland ... 200 ...Bridgeton. 
 
 Essex 500 Newark. 
 
 Gloucester 200 Woodbury. 
 
 Hudson 600 Jersey City. 
 
 Hunterdon 260 .....Flemington. 
 
 Mercer 250 Trenton. 
 
 Aliddlesex 250 New Brunswick. 
 
 Monmouth 300 Freehold. 
 
 Morris 250 Morristown. 
 
 Ocean 150 Toms River. 
 
 Passaic. 250 Paterson. 
 
 Salem 20O Salem. 
 
 Somerset 150 Somerville. 
 
 Sussex 150 Newton. 
 
 Union 300 Elizabeth. 
 
 Warren 260 Belvidere. 
 
 5,370 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In designating the newspapers in which 
 the laws are to be published you will see that the Gov- 
 ernor and Comptroller are required to have " regard " 
 to circulation ; that is all ; it does not say it shall 
 
PROMULGATION OF THE LAWS. 917 
 
 go to the newspaper having the greatest circulation, 
 but they are to have " regard " to it. I presume it is 
 within the knowledge of every member of this Commit- 
 tee that there are newspapers of many thousands cir- 
 culation that have been dropped from the list of papers, 
 and those of a trifling circulation in some town have 
 been put on in their stead. 
 
 Senator Skirm — On account of political preference ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, and to punish enemies and reward 
 friends. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — It has been used as a means of 
 driving them into the support or silencing their criticism 
 of a party in power. 
 
 Senator Skirm — My statement might have been a 
 little broad when I criticised the entire press ; the press 
 of certain portions of the State have been sharp in 
 denouncing some things that they have seen ; take the 
 Jersey City papers, as well as the Essex county papers. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The Jersey City " Journal " has 
 always been independent. 
 
 Senator Skirm — And its circulation has been made 
 very much larger because of its independence, and so it 
 will continue to be with any paper who has the manli- 
 ness to show its independence. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — A communication has been re- 
 ceived by the Chairman, addressed to the Senate In- 
 vestigating Committee, and I think it is only fair to 
 those who have sent it to have it read by the Clerk, and 
 it will be spread upon the minutes : 
 
 " To the Honorable, The Senate Investigating Com- 
 mittee : 
 
 " Gentlemen : — The following resolutions have been 
 adopted by this Board : 
 
 " Whereas, the investigation into the internal affairs 
 of the management of the office of the State Board of 
 Assessors has developed certain irregularities, the exist- 
 ence of which was entirely unknown to the members of 
 of the Board ; 
 
 '^Eesoloed, That it is not only the hope of the Board, 
 but their expressed desire, that the Legislative Com- 
 mittee investigating the affairs of the State government 
 shall examine into, to the utmost extent, every act of 
 the Board and its employees, and every matter con- 
 
918 JUDICIAL FEES. 
 
 nected in any way with the management of the office 
 of the State Board of Assessors. 
 
 ''Resolved, That the members of the Board hold them- 
 selves in readiness to respond to the calls of the Com- 
 mittee at any time, and desire to be examined on every 
 matter which the Committee may deem important, 
 touching the afTairs of the 'Board, its office and its 
 employes. 
 
 ''Resolved, That these resolutions be spread upon the 
 
 minutes of the Board, and that a copy duly signed by 
 
 the members of the Board be forwarded to Hon. Foster 
 
 M. Voorhees, Chairman of the Legislative Committee. 
 
 "Adopted May 7, 1895. 
 
 " Bird W". Spencer, President. 
 "Oliver Kelly, 
 "A. R. KusBE, 
 "David Baird, 
 
 "State Board of Assessors." 
 
 Adjourned until Friday, May 24, 1895. 
 
 Trenton, May 24th, 1895. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to offer some testimony and statements 
 relative to the fees known as the judicial fees received for the 
 revenues of the State through the office of the Clerk in Chancery 
 and the Clerk of the Supreme Court, and also some facts relative to 
 the tees received by those officers for their own use, as provided 
 by the law ; of which fees they are required to make periodical 
 statements to the Comptroller, to be kept of record. 
 
 The law regulating the matter of judicial fees is found in the 
 Supplement to the Revision, page 898, at paragragh 22, as fol- 
 lows : 
 
 " 22. Sec. 1. That it shall be the duty of the clerk of the su- 
 preme court, and of the county clerks of the several counties in 
 this state, and of the clerk in chancery, and of the secretary of 
 state of this state, within ten days after the close of each term of 
 the courts of which they are respectively the clerks, to make full 
 and itemizrid statement and return to the comptroller of the 
 treasury of this state of the sums which they have respectively 
 charged and included in taxed bills of cost, or which may have 
 accrued in any case, or which they have received under the 
 provisions of section two of this act, during said term, for any 
 costs or fees taxable, or to be received by them as aforesaid, in 
 
JUDICIAL FEES. 919 
 
 regard to or for the services of the chancellor, the chief Justice 
 and the associate justices of the supreme court, respectively, 
 under any law now or hereafter in force fixing such costs or fees, 
 which statements shall be made under oath and upon blanks 
 containing a form of the said statement and oath, to be furnished 
 to said clerks by said comptroller, and shall be filed in his 
 oflice." 
 
 Paragraph 23 provides that fees for orders, rules, &c., shall 
 be included in these statements. 
 
 Paragraph 24 provides that the clerk may retain five percentum 
 ■of the amount for his services in collecting and transmitting it, 
 and he shall quarterly turn over the balance to the Treasurer of 
 the State after it has been audited by the Comptroller and the 
 ■Comptroller has given him a certificate of the correctness of his 
 return. 
 
 This is the same law aflecting the county clerks which was 
 read to you when we had up the subject of returns from county 
 clerks of the several counties, and I then exhibited to the Com- 
 mittee the form of the return which the Comptroller prepared 
 ifor the county clerks and which he sends to them periodically. 
 This printed form has not been used by the clerks in the State 
 House, but the Clerk in Chancery has made returns in type- 
 written form which are substantially in the same form as this, 
 that is, he has given the details of his receipts ; so many writs, so 
 many orders, so many decrees during the term, which is the same 
 particularity provided for in this blank made up by the Comp- 
 troller. 
 
 Those statements have been filed with regularity, I believe, by 
 the Clerk in Chancery and the Clerk of the Supreme Court, and 
 the iees have been paid into the treasury as shown by the Comp- 
 troller's reports and the Treasurer's reports. 
 
 The other subject which I mentioned was the matter of the 
 iees received by these clerks for their own use, and it is regu- 
 lated by the act of March 14, 1879, Supplement to the Revision, 
 page 299, paragraph 17: 
 
 " 17. Sec. 1. That the dark in chancery and the clerk of the 
 supreme court of this state shall severally keep a true record of 
 all the fees and compensation received by them for their own 
 use, from all sources, in their respective offices, under the pro- 
 visions of any law of this state, and shall respectively make a 
 statement, account and report, under oath, to the comptroller of 
 this state, on the first day of July next, and quarterly thereafter, 
 of the gross amount of all such fees and compensation so re- 
 ceived by them respectively during the next preceding quarter." 
 
920 ALLAN m'dEEMOTT. 
 
 The 20th paragraph provides that these statements, accounts 
 and reports shall be kept and remain on the public files of the 
 ofSce in which they are filed, the same as other papers are filed 
 therein, and all statements, accounts and reports made to the 
 Comptroller shall be by him included in each of his annual re- 
 ports to the Legislature. 
 
 The next section provides a penalty of one hundred dollars tor 
 not filing the report. I will take up first the matter of the 
 Chancery office. 
 
 Allan McDermott, sworn. 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are the Clerk in Chancery ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. And have held that office since what time ? A. March 29, 
 1886. 
 
 Q. I show you a number of returns of judicial fees, being from 
 the files of the Comptroller's office. These are your returns of 
 the moneys received for the services of the Chancellor, are they 
 not, for the use of the State ? A. That is what they are. 
 
 Q. And made each term? A. Are made each term ; the law 
 requires that 1 shall file within ten days, I think, after the open- 
 ing of the term, a statement of the moneys which I have received 
 for the services of the Chancellor ; that of course includes the 
 Vice-Chancellors. "Within that period I make the statement, the 
 form being fitted to the process used in the office, and pay to the 
 Treasurer on the day that I make that statement, the amount of 
 fees that I have received. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I show the Committee the last one filed 
 for October term, 1894; you will see the way in which 
 the return is made ; you will observe it is made with 
 particulars, so many writs isssued of one sort, and so 
 many of another, and so many orders, &c., and at the 
 bottom you will observe a deduction of five per cent., 
 for the Clerk's fees for collecting them, and the net 
 balance is the amount which the Clerk remits to the 
 Treasurer. For the convenience of the Committe I have 
 made up a schedule of these returns, and I will call off 
 the amount by years and then I will offer this for the 
 record : 
 
 Net Amount of Judicial Fees Returned and Paid by Allan McDer- 
 mott, Clerk in Chancery. 
 Year. Term. Amount. Total by Years. 
 
 1886— May , $4,302 31 
 
 October 2,027 81 
 
 16,060 12 
 
ALLAN m'DERMOTT. 921 
 
 1887— February |2,276 37 
 
 May 2,712 97 
 
 October 2,312 02 
 
 17,301 36 
 
 1888— February 1,682 83 
 
 May 2,535 84 
 
 October 2,117 00 
 
 1889— February 2,210 42 
 
 May 2,907 27 
 
 October 1,980 80 
 
 1890— February 2,106 55 
 
 May 3,218 05 
 
 October 2,146 24 
 
 1891— February 2,341 92 
 
 May 3,428 76 
 
 October 2,871 54 
 
 1892— February 2,402 36 
 
 May 3,374 74 
 
 October 2,328 69 
 
 1893— February 2,699 86 
 
 May 4,019 07 
 
 October 2,785 12 
 
 1894— February 3,181 24 
 
 May , 4,040 35 
 
 October 3,169 35 
 
 6,335 67 
 
 7,098 49 
 
 7,470 84 
 
 8,142 22 
 
 8,105 79 
 
 9,504 05 
 
 10,390 94 
 
 The Committee will obseiye these payments are made 
 by terms, which is manifestly the convenient and proper 
 time to make them, although the statute does say that 
 the returns shall be made by term and the payments 
 made quarterly ; that would be obviously difficult to 
 accomplish. The returns have been properly made. 
 The Committee will understand these are revenues de- 
 rived by the State from the Court of Chancery for the 
 services of the Chancellor and Vice Chancellors, and 
 these revenues grow out of the changed system whereby 
 the fees formerly retained by those officers were turned 
 into the State Treasury and they all put upon salaries; 
 
922 ALLAN m'dEEMOTT. 
 
 it is a sort of net earniugs of the court that goes into 
 the Treasury. 
 
 The fees which the clerk receives for his own use are 
 required to be returned quartely, for the gross amount 
 of the fees and compensation from all sources received 
 by the clerk for his own use. I think there has been 
 some little difference of opinion as to the construction 
 of this act, and there certainly has been some diversity 
 of practice under it, but to make it entirely clear I will 
 ask the clerk to explain what the practice has been with 
 respect to his own office. 
 Q. I show you files from the Comptroller's office. Are these 
 your returns made to the Comptroller of your own fees ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; those are the returns made to the Comptroller of 
 my own fees. 
 
 Q. I would like you to state how you made up these returns 
 and what they show. 
 A. The law requires : 
 
 " That the clerk in chancery and clerk of the su- 
 preme court of this state shall severally keep a true 
 record of all the fees and compensation received by 
 them for their own use, from all sources, in their respec- 
 tive offices, under the provisions of any law of this 
 state, and shall respectively make a statement, account 
 and report, under oath, to the comptroller of this State, 
 on the first day of Jaly next, and quarterly thereafter, 
 of the gross amount of all such fees and compensation 
 so received by them respectively during the next pre- 
 ceding quarter." 
 I notice that there are some omissions in the tabulated state- 
 ment that you have made there. The returns which you show 
 me I guess include about all that I have made, and they are made 
 up on this basis. At the time that I was appointed Clerk of the 
 Court the law provided that the Clerk should receive four cents 
 a folio for the folio work in the office of the Clerk of the Court 
 of Chancery ; that folio work is probably something over seventy 
 per cent, of the entire work of the office ; with the exception of 
 four of my clerks, the folio work is the work that all my 
 employees are engaged upon. It had been the practice to pay 
 the employees two cents a folio, the Clerk retaining two cents; 
 I estimated the profit of the office and came to the conclusion 
 that the amount paid to the employees for copying, the two cents 
 a folio, would be for a very hard working clerk but a bare exist- 
 ence; it was not enough compensation for the work; while you 
 
ALLAN m'dEEMOTT. 923 
 
 can find plenty of people perhaps to do it for that amount, it was 
 not a fair compensation. I then applied to the Legislature to 
 increase that amount. I did not desire the increase for my per- 
 sonal benefit, and in order that that might be demonstrated the 
 act was drawn in this way : (Page 299, Section 16 of the Supple- 
 ment to the Revision). 
 
 " That the clerk in chancery and the clerk of the su- 
 preme court of this state shall each be entitled to receive 
 for copies and enrolling proceedings, for each folio of 
 one hundred words, five cents, and no more, of which 
 sum they shall respectively retain two cents, and such 
 portion of the balance as shall not be expended and 
 actually paid out for enrolling proceedings, copies and 
 recording shall be paid into the state treasury." 
 It is hardly necessary to say that I have never paid anything 
 into the State treasury under that law ; I have paid to my em- 
 ployees not only the three cents, but probably a fraction more. 
 And I have, therefore, considered that as to that income of the 
 office I did not receive that money for my own use. In constru- 
 ing the act of 1879 I found that this construction had been placed 
 upon it by my predecessors, that it required a return of the fees 
 received for the work performed during the quarter; that is, the 
 two elements must exist, the receipt and the work during the 
 quarter. That was the practice of the office, and during the life 
 of the bookkeeper who was there when I took the office I think 
 that practice was pursued. 
 
 Q. That was your first return? A, My first few returns; I 
 signed them and he made them up. After, the other returns I 
 made up myself. I found that the State Comptroller was re- 
 peatedly asking; the Legislature to repeal this law, as being en- 
 tirely useless, and I call the attention of the Committee to one of 
 his requests, on page 78 of the Comptroller's Report for 1885 — 
 Mr. Anderson was the Comptroller. He says : 
 
 " The act requiring the making and publishing of 
 these returns was of no practical use ; no good was ever 
 accomplished by it; no benefit has ever been derived 
 from it ; it requires from year to year the publication in 
 the Comptroller's report of an utterly useless formula, 
 the necessity for which should be abolished without 
 delay. So long as the law exists, however, it is neces- 
 sary for the statements to be made and published, and 
 those which have been received for the past year are ac- 
 cordingly presented below." 
 
924 ALLAN m'dERMOTT. 
 
 I came across that while I was looking at the question of what 
 the spirit of this law was, and I concluded that its spirit was this, 
 that the State desire to have on record a statement of the value 
 of the office to the Clerk, so that it could be referred to as a basis 
 for any proposed legislation in the matter, either decreasing his 
 fees or fixing a salary for the office. I, therefore, did not adopt 
 the plans of my predecessors in making returns, although I think 
 their plan could be supported under the construction of the law ; 
 but my returns show the profit of the office to the Clerk ; in 
 other words, they show all that I received for my own use ; they 
 do not show the moneys which I received and paid out under the 
 direction of the statute to somebody else, becauEe that cannot be 
 said to be my own use. 
 
 Q. That is so later, the returns of the year 1891 ? A. This is 
 the first returns; the man is dead who made them, and I can't 
 say what his theory was, but I guess it was the theory which I 
 have suggested to the Committee. The next return, for instance 
 1886— 
 
 Q. The returns then for the years 1891, 1892, 1893 and 1894, 
 which have been under your personal charge, represent the net 
 value of the office to you ? A. Yes, sir; with this explanation : 
 Some of the members of the bar, your firm not included, are 
 sometimes a little dilatory. I think, no doubt, that is because 
 sometimes their clients are dilatory, and I have accommodated 
 the members of the bar. Some of the gentlemen practicing in 
 the Court I believe have been running their accounts since 1886 ; 
 I suppose they will run forever ; some of them pay up. You 
 take for instance the return for 1894. Those will include returns 
 on back accounts running back nine years ; so that if you want 
 to get the value of the office the proper way perhaps to do it 
 would be to give you the average for nine years. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will state these figures. Returns for 
 1891 show the total $19,285; for 1892, $18,'.i26, and for 
 1893, 117,838. The last report, of 1894, is not yet in. 
 
 Q. Can you state what the value of the office is for a series of 
 years ? A. Daring the nine years that I have occupied the 
 office the amount of money which I have received for my use 
 has averaged between $16,200 and $16,500 a year. I cannot 
 come any closer than that; it has not been less than the first 
 figure nor more than the second; that is all the money that I 
 have received for my use ; it has been ample and sufficient, but 
 I want the record to show the statement that way. 
 
 Q. What is the cost of runnmg the office ? I ask this ques- 
 tion with the view that if the Legislature see fit to place this 
 
ALLAN m'dERMOTT. 925 
 
 office upon a salary it would be necessary to make an appropria- 
 tion to provide for the expenses of the office, and if you can tell 
 me that approximately we will be obliged to you. A. I can tell 
 you that approximately from a calculation which I made when I 
 took the office. I about concluded, looking over the salary list 
 and somewhat raising it, that I would divide the fees with my 
 employes, so that if you take my receipts as $16,500 a year, I 
 have paid about an equal amount to those who work in the office. 
 -'Q. (By Senator Skirm) — How many employes have you that 
 you have divided it with? A. I should say about twenty. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — They are engaged in copying, most 
 of them, about 70 per cent, of the office, you say, therefore with 
 that recommendation to this Committee that would hardly cover 
 it, would it? A. Why? 
 
 §. (By Senator Skirm) — As to the expense of the office, be- 
 cause you certainly haven't divided that, as I understand you to 
 say where it had been increased from two cents to three, and if 
 that was 70 per cent, of your office, certainly you didn't want to 
 count those men in as employees of your office, do you? A. 
 Tes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Because you certainly divided those 
 receipts with those people — that is fixed by law. A. No, it isn't 
 fixed by law. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I understood you to say that it should 
 not exceed three cents per folio? A. Not exceed five cents. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Therefore you haven't made a divi- 
 sion. I should like to know the salaried positions and the 
 amount you pay them irrespective of the copying, because that 
 is provided for by law? A. No, it isn't; you don't know what 
 you are talking about. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I think I do. A. I know you don't. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — I understood you to say 70 per cent, 
 was for copying ? A. About 70 per cent, of the office. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — What I wanted to do was to eliminate 
 that expense, and simply take the expense of your clerical force. 
 A. That you can't do, because the clerical force will include the 
 copying; all the clerks in the office are subject to copying 
 orders at all times ; I therefore stated to you that the cost of run- 
 ning the office was about the amount which I stated as my re- 
 receipts for my own use. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Which included the cost of the copy- 
 ing? A. Necessarily. 
 
 q. (By Senator Skirm) — T thought it did not; that is the 
 reason I asked the question. 
 
926 aijLan m'dermott. 
 
 Q. So that the gross amount received by the clerk and his em- 
 ployees for clerical services in the office is perhaps $33,000, is 
 that right? A. Weil, I should say yes; that will be an approxi- 
 mate figure; you may find it vary $500 or $1,000. 
 
 Q. And the half which you have given to those under you is, 
 I assume, a fair compensation for services, not mean, and not ex- 
 travagant ? A. ^o ; it is fair compensation ; it is perhaps a 
 little more than — it is more than I could have employed labor 
 for without any question, but it is fair. « 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — But with due regard to the 
 efficiency of the office? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — If you had wanted to run the office 
 very close you certainly could have had copying done for less 
 than three cents a folio ? J.. I could have made a difference in 
 my favor, perhaps, of two or three thousand dollars a year on the 
 whole office, but it is an office that requires efficiency without 
 any question ; it is an office that requires accuracy, and to em- 
 ploy clerks on the basis of giving theip what you would call a 
 market standard of wages would decrease the efficiency of the 
 office, and it should not be done. I suppose the efficiency of the 
 office is watched with considerable interest by every attorney in 
 the State ; every attorney is interested in his case, and during 
 the nine years I have acted — I have a system of investigation of 
 any complaint made in the office, and I think the complaints of 
 the office have not averaged, including missent letters, three a 
 year, and that requires some efficiency and some intelligence on 
 the part of the clerks. Those whom I have found in the office I 
 have kept in the office, although some of them, I believe, diiiered 
 with me politically — because they were efficient clerks. 
 
 Q. If the offices are to be upon a salary basis what, in your 
 judgment, would be a proper amount for the Legislature to ap- 
 propriate for the sort of clerical services you require — all expen- 
 ses of the office ? J.. I don't think the Legislature could very 
 wisely make any appropriation in that way ; the office to be put 
 upon a salary — it should be put upon a salary ; my view is that 
 all offices should be salaried. I had this idea in mind last sum- 
 mer and somewhat developed it before the Constitutional Com- 
 mission. As a member of that Commission I drew a proposed 
 amendment to the Constitution, providing that all offices in the 
 State of New Jersey should be salaried, and the question which 
 Mr. Corbin asks now I considered at that time. I think that you 
 should not appropriate any fixed amount, but allow that the ex- 
 penses of the office shall be paid by the clerk, on the approval of 
 the Chancellor, and if you fix an amount — if you say that the 
 
ALLAN m'dEKMOTT. 927 
 
 Clerk of the Court of Chancery shall receive only $15,000 for 
 disbursements it may be by the next year that that would be 
 totally inadequate, because of a panic, or something of that kind. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That objection could be over- 
 come by making an annual appropriation ? A. Not very well ; 
 well, make an annual appropriation, with the right perhaps to 
 exceed it on the approval of the Chancellor if the necessities of 
 the office require it. But I should say the better way would be 
 to do it as you conduct any business having the supervision of 
 the Chancellor, to appropriate such an amount as he should ap- 
 approve; let him approve the salary lists; that is about the best 
 way. 
 
 The amendment which I proposed was defeated, as I recollect 
 it, in the Constitutional Commission. There was considerable 
 objection, and in the debate there were very grave objections 
 made to salarying these officers on the ground that the efficiency 
 of them would not be kept up; those objections had very con- 
 ■iderable weight. I, however, persisted in my idea, and I believe 
 gave to Senator Winton for introduction in the Senate an amend- 
 ment to the Constitution, still insisting upon the salary plan. I 
 may have been more stubborn than wise in my idea of it ; and 
 there was a bill introduced in the House of Assembly to salary 
 the Clerk of the Court of Chancery. That bill was very poorly 
 drawn. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Daly) — That wasn't this year — a year ago? A . 
 No ; it was introduced this session and was pending in the House ; 
 I requested the members of the-House of Assembly who were in 
 political sympathy through their leader to vote for the bill if it 
 came up, but I am not sure that any legislation of that kind, 
 without very considerable consideration, is wise. The State will 
 never be benefited, you can understand that, by taking away the 
 fee system, yet the fee system is an evil system. Of course the 
 State cannot make those fees a source of revenue. 
 
 Q. Then the salary system may cost the State treasury more ? 
 A. I think so. 
 
 Q. "While it might- save to litigants more? A. Yes, sir ; and 
 that will encourage litigation, which is a very bad thing ; you 
 will find that every time you have decreased the fees in any court 
 you have increased the litigation ; I found that so much so when 
 I took charge of this office, I examined the fees which had been 
 charged for the foreclosure of mortgages, and I concluded that 
 that included several relics that could be dispensed with, theor- 
 etical charges, and I reduced the cost of foreclosing the mortgages 
 in New Jersey ^by a very considerable item, as I recollect; I 
 
928 ALLAN m'dERMOTT. 
 
 revised the fee system of the office, and I am satisfied that the 
 application of that to other litigation would encourage litigation ; 
 that is, if you cheapen litigation you encourage it; I don't believe 
 the State would get any good by doing so. 
 
 Q. The employees of the Chancery office are largely persons 
 who have been there for many years, are they not ; it is a pretty 
 thoroughly organized office ? J.. I retain, with one or two 
 exceptions, which I discharged for reasons connected with the 
 efficiency of the office, and one or two that resigned, all the 
 clerks that I found there when I went in. 
 
 Q. It is important, is it not, to the conduct of an office with 
 such a complicated business that there shall be highly experi- 
 enced employees? A. Beyond any question. 
 
 Q. And it is at present in a high state of proficiency? A. I 
 think the bar know that. 
 
 Returns of Official Fees of Allan McDermott, Clerk in Chan- 
 cery. 
 
 For Quarter Ending. Statement Filed. Amount. Total for Year. 
 
 1886— July 1 July, 1886 $2,010 19 
 
 Oct. 1. October, 1886 1,116 41 
 
 1887— January 1 1,098 15 
 
 April 1 1,995 73 
 
 July 1 2,638 53 
 
 October 1 306 96 
 
 1888— January 1 
 
 April 1 
 
 July 1 
 
 October 1 
 
 1889— January 1 
 
 April 1 
 
 July 1 
 
 October 1 
 
 1890— January 1 
 
 April 1 
 
 July 1 
 
 October 1 , 
 
 1891 — January 1 
 
 April 1. January 16, 1894 6,652 90 
 
 July 1... " 4,925 05 
 
 Oct. 1... " 866 78 
 
 1892— Jan. 1... « 6,841 GO 
 
 ■ $15,285 73 
 
BENJAMIN F. LEE. 929 
 
 Apr. 1. 
 
 January 16, 1894 
 
 $6,909 43 
 
 July 1.. 
 
 a 
 
 3,990 57 
 
 Oct. 1... 
 
 (( 
 
 710 00 
 
 1893— Jan. 1... 
 
 
 6,616 58 
 
 Apr. 1.. 
 
 5,832 00 
 
 July 1... 
 
 (( 
 
 4,190 62 
 
 Oct. 1... 
 
 <( 
 
 1,007 00 
 
 1894— Jan. 1... 
 
 Nov. 27, 1894 
 
 6,808 70 
 
 Apr. 1.. 
 
 6,597 00 
 
 July 1... 
 Oct. 1... 
 
 « 
 
 4,990 00 
 540 00 
 
 a 
 
 1895— Jan. 1 ... 
 
 
 
 ,226 58 
 
 17,838 32 
 
 Benjamin F. Lee, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Me. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are the Clerk of the Supreme Court? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And have been since what time ? A. Since November, 
 1872. 
 
 Q. You have made returns each term since the act of 1879 of 
 the judicial fees collected for the use of the State through your 
 office, have you not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And these files from the Comptroller's office which I show 
 you, are they such returns? I observe that you have returned 
 each term a gross sum; for example, you return March 1, 1895, 
 total amount of fees earned by the entire bench for the term of 
 November, 1894, $2,004 04, less 5 per cent, commission by the 
 statute, $100.20, leaving $1,903.84 ; I see that is not in detail, 
 showing the number of writs and orders, &e. Where are those 
 details recorded from which you make up this gross sum ? A, 
 In my cash journal or ledger. 
 
 Q. But you didn't spread that out upon your returns? A. 
 No, sir. 
 
 Q. But the details are all there in your books? A. Yes, sir ; 
 they are all checked off from that upon a sheet, and then the 
 sum total is taken. 
 
 Q. You have from 1880 to the present time remitted them 
 these statements — you checked up the amount due the State ? 
 A. Always. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Strictly speaking, the statute says these 
 returns shall be made in detail on a form provided by 
 the Comptroller, and I suppose a strict compliance with 
 the act would say so many sealed writs, and so many 
 
 59 SH 
 
930 BENJAMIN P. LEE. 
 
 orders made, &c., so many rules entered, but these re- 
 turns seem to be in excellent order, though they are 
 possibly deficient in that respect, and the money is re- 
 mitted. The reports of the Comptroller and Treasurer 
 show that the money has all been received as per these 
 returns. I have made up a schedule of these judicial 
 fees vs^hich I will hand up for the inspection of the Com- 
 mittee. It will be remembered that during the early 
 years, the first years after 1879, some of the Judges of 
 the Supreme Court continued to receive fees until their 
 terms expired, and it was several years before the system 
 now in vogue came fully into use, so that the returns 
 are necessarily smaller for those first years. 
 
 Net amount of Judicial Fees Returned and paid by Benjamin 
 F. Lee, Clerk of Supreme Court : 
 
 Year. Term. Amount. Total for Years^ 
 
 1880— Feb..... $177 41 
 
 June 272 88 
 
 Nov 503 37 
 
 1953 66 
 
 1881— Feb $873 22 
 
 June 1,247 25 
 
 Nov.. 1,364 95 
 
 $3,485 42. 
 
 1882— Feb $1,106 59 
 
 June 1,489 01 
 
 Nov 1,269 83 
 
 $3,865 43: 
 
 1883— Feb $1,541 24 
 
 Jane 1,363 91 
 
 Nov 915 23 
 
 $3,820 38 
 
 1884— Feb $940 31 
 
 June 1,414 92 
 
 Nov 1,088 19 
 
 $3,443 42 
 
 1885— Feb $1,065 45 
 
 June 1,388 29 
 
 Nov 
 
 1886-Feb $7,151 60 
 
 June 1,414 53 
 
 Nov 1,079 64 
 
 13,645 82 
 
BENJAMIN F. LBE, 931 
 
 Year. Term, Amount. Total by Years. 
 
 1887— Feb |928 43 
 
 June 1,388 34 
 
 Nov 1,115 31 
 
 $3,432 08 
 
 1888— Feb $1,104 33 
 
 June 1,473 35 
 
 Nov 1,037 87 
 
 $3,615 55 
 
 1889— Feb $1,210 09 
 
 June 1,612 42 
 
 Nov 1,521 78 
 
 $4,344 29 
 
 1890— Feb $1,378 51 
 
 June 1,789 44 
 
 Nov 1,557 44 
 
 $4,725 49 
 
 1891— Feb $1,652 11 
 
 June 2,079 50 
 
 Nov 1,702 35 
 
 $5,433 96 
 
 1892— Feb $1,755 84 
 
 June 1,967 87 
 
 Nov 1,774 41 
 
 $5,498 12 
 
 1893— Feb $1,813 lo 
 
 June 2,450 58 
 
 Nov 2,053 40 
 
 $6,317 08 
 
 1894— Feb $1,614 98 
 
 June 2,486 76 
 
 Nov 1,903 84 
 
 $6,005 68 
 
 Q. That increase of judicial fees indicates an increase of litiga- 
 tion business, does it not? A. Yes, sir; the business has in- 
 creased in the office very largely in the past five years. 
 
 Q. Those judicial fees, however, have relation entirely to suits 
 and litigations, do they not ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And don't touch upon the matter of the searching? A. 
 No, sir ; not at all. 
 
 Q. In other words, they are the State's fees for writs and 
 orders and rules? A. Writs and orders, and rules and judg- 
 ments, and all fees pertaining to the cases — the Court's share 
 of the taxed costs. 
 
 Q. You have also made returns of the fees received by you in 
 
932 BENJAMIN F. LEE. 
 
 your office tor your own use, have you not? A. By quarters; 
 yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I have made a schedule of these 
 returns as found in the office of the Comptroller which 
 I will present to the Cornmittee and then place upon 
 the record. 
 
 Q. First, Mr. Lee, will you state on what basis you made up 
 these returns; in other words, what do these quarter returns 
 show ? A. They show the amount of money received in the quarter 
 for the business of the office done in that quarter. In other 
 words, you take the term of November, which ends in February 
 of the next year, — I report to the Comptroller the fees received 
 from the first of January to the Slst of March, covering the bus- 
 iness done in the part of the term which is in that quarter ; you 
 will find a discrepancy, or not a discrepancy, but you will find a 
 very much less return in the third quarter, 1 think. 
 
 Q. It is the October quarter, I think? A. Because that term 
 commences in June and ends in November ; the quarter com- 
 mences the Ist of July and ends the 30th of September; con- 
 sequently I have received no money in that quarter for the 
 business done in that quarter excepting incidental business, some 
 searches which amount to comparatively little money. 
 
 Q. In other words, the business of your office is done by 
 terms, and there are three terms in the year? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. February, June and November ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. While this law requires you to make returns by quarters, 
 January, April, July and October? A. Yes, sir; and it has 
 been somewhat a difficult thing to make these returns up, be- 
 cause you have to take the proportion of the term that is con- 
 tained within the time. 
 
 Q. If the law requires those returns to be made by terms, it 
 would be simpler, wouldn't it ? A. A great deal. 
 
 Q. Then your returns show not the gross receipts by your fees 
 and compensation for your own use, but only the gross receipts 
 earned in the quarter and received in the quarter? A. Yes, sir; 
 if the Clerk depended upon the receipts as indicated there, he 
 would have a slim allowance. 
 
 Q. These returns then really don't indicate much as to the 
 value of the office, do they? A. No; they indicate nothing 
 scarcely. 
 
 Q. How do they come to be made up in that way ? A. Well, 
 it was a construction of the law at the time I filed them ; they 
 never were objected to by the Comptroller. 
 
BENJAMIN F. LEE. 933 
 
 Q, The same plan was adopted in the Chancery office at that 
 time, was it not? A. Yes, sir ; these returns also show, at least 
 it is stated in them, that they do not include receipts for previous 
 years and previous terms. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then your return is simply for the 
 receipts of the quarter ? A. The receipts of the quarter for the 
 business done in that quarter, but I take the precaution to aay, 
 however, in the return, that it does not include the receipts for 
 previous quarters or for previous years which have been received 
 in that quarter ; it is simply confined to the business of the quar- 
 ter received during that time. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The returns I think nearly all have that 
 clause in ; the return does not show much ; it does not 
 amount to anything as an indication of what the office 
 does pay. 
 
 Returns Made by B. F: Lee, Clerk Supreme Court, of Fees Received 
 
 for His Own Use. 
 
 For Quarter Ending. Statement Filed. Amount Returned. Total for Year. 
 
 June 30, 1879, July 25, 1879 $830 59 
 
 Sep. 30, 1879.. , 179 37 
 
 Dec. 31, 1879 1,379 48 
 
 $2,389 44 
 
 April 1,1880 $1,546 76 
 
 July 1, 1880 1,242 32 
 
 Oct. 1, 1880 513 20 
 
 Jan. 1, 1881, March 21,1881 1,005 67 
 
 $4,307 95 
 
 March31, 1881 ^ $1,849 57 
 
 June 30, 1881 2,346 53 
 
 Sep. 30, 1881 582 63 
 
 Jan. 1, 1882 1,326 25 
 
 $6,104 98 
 
 March 31, 1882 $l,t^37 50 
 
 June 30, 1882 626 71 
 
 Sep. 30, 1882 , 305 52 
 
 Jan. 1, 1883 1,477 46 
 
 $4,047 19 
 
 March 31, 1883 $1,866 64 
 
 June 30, 1883 2,732 36 
 
 Sep. 30, 1883 398 86 
 
 Jan. 1,1884 921 39 
 
 $5,919 15 
 
934 BENJAMIN P. LEE. 
 
 For Year Ending. Statement Filed. Amount Returned. Total for Year. 
 
 March 31, 1884 31,496 32 
 
 June 30, 1884 1,986 66 
 
 Sep. 30, 1884 335 65 
 
 Jan. 1,1885 1,616 05 
 
 $5,434 68 
 
 Mar. 31, 1885 $1,609 87 
 
 June 30, 1885 2,568 90 
 
 Oct. 1,1885 521 51 
 
 Jan. 1,1886 1,537 14 
 
 $6,287 42 
 
 Mar. 31, 1886 $1,809 57 
 
 June 30, 1886 2,482 65 
 
 Oct. 1, 1886 642 35 
 
 Jan. 1,1887 1,472 16 
 
 $6,406 73 
 
 Mar. 31, 1887 $1,938 20 
 
 June 30,1887 2,748 15 
 
 Oct. 1, 1887 694 31 
 
 (Jan. 1, 1888. Mar. 28, 1894 2,191 95) 
 
 Jan. 1,1888 1,561 17 
 
 $6,941 83 
 
 (Sept. 1, 1888. Mar. 28, 1894 $2,889 59) 
 
 Mar. 31, 1888 1,734 09 
 
 (June 30, 1888. Mar. 28, 1894 2,443 56) 
 
 June 30, 1888 2,865 18 
 
 (Oct. 1,1888. Mar. 28, 1894 562 89) 
 
 Oct. 1, 1888 619 64 
 
 Jan. 1, 1889. Mar. 28, 1894 2,009 87 
 
 $7,228 68 
 
 Apr. 1, 1889. Mar. 28, 1894 $2,785 05 
 
 July 1, 1889. Mar. 28, 1894 2,391 19 
 
 Oct. 1, 1889. Mar. 28, 1894 595 27 
 
 Jan. 1, 1890. Mar. 28, 1894 2,260 74 
 
 gg Qg2 28 
 
 April 1, 1890. Mar. 28, 1894 $2,907 21 
 
 July 1, 1890. Mar. 28, 1894 2,563 18 
 
 Oct. 1,1890. Mar. 28, 1894 503 12 
 
 Jan. 1, 1891. Mar. 28, 1894 2,378 91 
 
 4g 352 42 
 
 April 1, 1891. Mar. 28, 1894 $2,673 46 
 
 July 1, 1891. Mar. 28, 1894 2,837 11 
 
 Oct. 1,1891. Mar. 28, 1894 581 91 
 
 Jan. 1,1892. Mar. 28, 1894 2,465 29 
 
 $8,557 77 
 
BENJAMIN P. LEE. 935 
 
 For Year Ending. Statement Filed. Amount Returned. Total for Year. 
 
 April 1, 1892. Mar. 28, 1894 $3,012 17 
 
 July 1, 1892. Mar. 28, 1894 2,995 14 
 
 Oct. 1, 1892. Mar. 28, 1894 567 18 
 
 Jan. 1, 1893. Mar. 28, 1894 2,531 07 
 
 39,105 56 
 
 April 1, 1893. Mar. 28, 1894 |2,835 06 
 
 July 1, 1898. Mar. 28, 1894 3,222 15 
 
 Oct. 1, 1893. Mar. 28, 1894 543 15 
 
 Jan. 1, 1894. Mar. 28, 1894 2,385 60 
 
 $8,985 96 
 
 April 1, 1894. Aprill0,1894 $2,987 15 
 
 July 1, 1894. Aug. 11, 1894 3,574 26 
 
 Oct. 1, 1894. Oct. 16, 1894 59126 
 
 Jan. 1, 1895. Jan. 21, 1895 2,497 21 
 
 $9,649 88 
 
 April 1, 1895. April 30, 1895 $2,796 42 
 
 Q. I observe that from January, 1888, to October, 1888, four 
 ■quarters, there are two sets of returns on file, and they don't 
 agree; do you know why that happened? A. Two sets of 
 returns for the entire year ? 
 
 Q. Two sets of returns for each of those four quarters ? A. 
 No, I don't know. 
 
 Q. The red figures are one set and the black the other. The 
 statute says that the clerk shall keep a record of the fees and 
 compensation received by him for his own use. Where is that 
 record? I haven't a condensed record; this is a book account 
 with the members of the bar ; these three columns — this first 
 column represents the column of fees or moneys belonging to the 
 clerk; the second column represents fees belonging to the court, 
 and the last column to the criers. 
 
 Q. This, then, is your record? A. That is my record of the 
 fees. 
 
 Q. It isn't summed up in any way except to the individual 
 accounts of the attorneys? A. That is all; here is one that is 
 summed up; those three columns are added together, making 
 the amount for that term $107.69 for instance; then I take from 
 each of these columns, from this column and from this, and from 
 all the columns upon a sheet of paper the sum total of the fees 
 belonging to the State. 
 
 Q. IsTow, I will ask you a question about that. You make 
 those returns to the State each term ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
936 BENJAMIN F. LEE. 
 
 Q. And how do you make up the sum for which you give th& 
 Treasurer a check when you do that? A. I make it up from 
 these by checking off from this book each individual item. 
 
 Q. From your ledger with the attorneys ? A. From this cash 
 journal; it is a day book practically, and upon a sheet of paper 
 are taken each of these individual accounts, and the sum total of 
 those having been compared carefully, having checked them off 
 and then rechecked them so as to see that none are lost, I then 
 make up the sum total of all the fees earned by — not collected, 
 but earned by the court for that term, and as nearly as possible 
 within the time required by law, ten days, not always possible, 
 because it is very hard at the beginning of the term when the 
 office is filled with lawyers to get off twelve hundred accounts or 
 make up twelve hundred bills, as there are in these books, but as 
 nearly as possible I make up the report for the State Treasurer 
 under oath and give him a check for the money ; I have.n't yet 
 collected a dollar. 
 
 Q. That money you pay over whether you have collected it or 
 not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The gross amount you have charged upon your books for 
 services of the judges ? A. 1 have done that in every case but 
 one ; in one recent term there were a large number of postea 
 fees which came in, which I could not help, and I knew I would 
 never get them — there are about a hundred dollars of those fees 
 which I did not report, some I have collected since and paid to 
 the State. 
 
 Q. With that exception, how much balance is that which is 
 unpaid ? A. Fifty or sixty dollars. 
 
 Q. "With that exception you have paid over to the State all 
 that is charged on your books for the services of the judges? 
 A. Every cent of it. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That I belive to be in strict compliance 
 with the law, a clerk is allowed to take from that, 5 per 
 cent, for his services in collecting it, and doubtless for 
 certain losses which he will be sure to incur. 
 Q. You have deducted the 5 per cent. ? A. Yea, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — In other words, the law compels the 
 clerks to collect their fees in advance ; they have the 
 right to do it. It they see fit to trust an attorney or 
 party, it is their own affair, and therefore they are held 
 answerable at the end of each term for the entire amount 
 of the judges' fees, whether they ara collected or not. 
 You remember the county clerks, some of theai spoke 
 of the hardship of it, and others said they found no 
 
BENJAMIN F. LEE. 937 
 
 difficulty ; but Mr. Lee's system, as I understand his 
 testimony, is an exact compliance in that respect with 
 the requirements of the law. 
 
 Witness — I think I indicated an amount that was pos- 
 sibly due the State, yet from those uncollected accounts 
 which I laid aside ; it may be more than that, but it is a 
 small sum. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — And as a matter of fact, with 
 that exception you have turned over all these fees, whether you 
 have received them from the attorneys or not ? A. Yes, sir ; I 
 turned them over within ten days ; if the June term commences 
 on the 6th, 1 have turned them in as nearly as possible on the 
 16th, and I probably haven't got a bill out before the let of July. 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then you really pay this money before 
 you receive it? A. Oh, yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is the case with most of the clerks. 
 Mr. McDermott's is the same way, except that he has 
 adopted the system of the lawyers making a deposit to 
 meet these fees beforehand; all the members of the bar 
 are, under the practice in that office, required to keep 
 moneys on deposit there. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Then I would like to ask Mr. Lee 
 whether he does the same thing. 
 Q. Do you require any deposit from the lawyers as against 
 these fees ? A. N'o, sir ; I collected an account day before yester- 
 day which was fourteen years old. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — That is from lawyers, of course ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The five per cent, margin which the State gives you, that 
 would probably keep you whole on the judicial fees ? A. No, 
 sir. 
 
 Q. Well, perhaps, there is something else in it that may ? A. 
 I think it is wise, as a matter of business, to pursue my course. 
 
 Q. To leave the judicial fees and take up this matter of yours, 
 this book which you have shown us, which is marked " Ledger," 
 which you have called " Cash Journal," which has a column of 
 fees for the clerk, shows what you have charged up? A. Yes, 
 
 sir. 
 
 Q. But not what you have collected? A. JSTo, sir. 
 
 Q. Now, the law with regard to your own fees requires you 
 not to state what you have charged up, but requires you to keep 
 a record of what you receive? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And to make a statement quarterly of what you have re- 
 ceived? A. Yes, sir. 
 
938 BENJAMIN F. LEE. 
 
 Q. For the information of the State ? A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Now, what book have you got which shows that record ? 
 A. The report which I have construed in the other way whenever 
 reporting it. 
 
 Q. You have a cash-book which shows your receipts ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Will you show us that ? A. That I haven't here ; that 
 
 cash-book is a personal cash-book, which involves all sorts of 
 
 transactions, which I think I might be spared bringing into court. 
 
 Q. All your personal matters are in that book? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Your cash-book has not only the money coming to you as 
 
 Clerk, but from your own money and business ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you any record to which you can refer which will 
 show us at a glance, separated by itself, your receipts, fees, from 
 the office of Clerk ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Well, how can yju arrive at it? A. 1 have undertaken, at 
 your request — started day before yesterday and worked at it last 
 night until 12 o'clock, taking all the deposits in the bank, cover- 
 ing every deposit I have made for those years, and then eliminated 
 from it all the items, as far as I could find them, which did not 
 belong to the court business at all, and I have got them here as 
 tar as I can get them. 
 
 Q. And you have also eliminated the judicial fees which you 
 paid to the State ? A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Are not they in your cash account? A. No, sir. 
 Q. The fees you have paid over to the State ? J.. I have sim- 
 ply taken my deposits, not my payments, because I have already 
 taken them. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I will ask Mr. Lee to make it up in the 
 
 easiest way he can, so that we may see the gross receipts 
 
 of this office for the use of the clerk, and the net value 
 
 of it, with a view to composing any recommendation you 
 
 see fit to make upon those facts. Mr. Lee has very 
 
 kindly, as he has said, diligently gone at it, but it is a 
 
 work evidently of very great labor. I think this statute 
 
 contemplated the keeping of a separate record of this, 
 
 but none of the Clerks seem to have done that. It is in 
 
 their books, but it is mixed with an amount of other 
 
 things. 
 
 Q. Now, Mr. Lee, have you gone over the past few years to see 
 
 what the gross receipts are ? tI. I have gone over as far as I 
 
 could do in the time I had ; I went over 1894, 1893, 1892, 1891 
 
 and 1890 ; I went backwards ; this I concluded last night at 
 
 midnight. 
 
BENJAMIN F. LEE. 939 
 
 . Have these figures as yet been verified? A. No, sir; I 
 haven't even verified the additions of the columns, because I 
 haven't had the time, and I found two of them here when I came 
 to look this morning for a check book to show a check given the 
 State in November term, 1891 : I was unable to find the book ; 
 it is about the office somewhere, probably up-stairs ; and I 
 haven't the checks for June and November, 1893, but you can 
 approximate from the other terms. 
 
 Q. Then these figures which you will give us are subject to 
 correction? A. Yes, sir; I wouldn't want to make an affidavit 
 to any of these. 
 
 Q. After your examination will you kindly have that investi- 
 gation continued, so that you may lay before the Committee a 
 written schedule giving the actual figures ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then, for the present, 1 will ask you what is the total of re- 
 ceipts of fees and compensation, for the use of the clerk, for the 
 year 1 894 ; give me the gross of the clerk's fees after the judicial fees 
 are taken out ? A. 1894, $46,C04 ; 1893, |3 4,605 ; 1892, $37,370 ; 
 1891, $84,488 ; 1890, $42,054. May I call your attention to the 
 very large amount in 1894 as compared with other terms ; that 
 is due to the payment in that year, in one of these quarters, of 
 the bills of a title company, because I hadn't been careful enough 
 to insist upon payment, but that had been running, I think, ten 
 terms ; their bills were large, and it was all paid at that time, 
 aad also some special work done in the way of searching for the 
 roads of Hudson couuty at that time, and it altogether made 
 quite a large sum of money which came into the quarter of this 
 year. 
 
 Q. It made the receipts of the year exceptional ? A. Yes, sir; 
 exceptionally beyond — ^just about as much larger than the others 
 as the amount is. 
 
 Q. Now, about how much annually is the total expense of 
 your office for clerical assistance and other expenses? A. It 
 varies somewhat, due to the sort of labor we have to perform, 
 but possibly $12,000 or $13,000 ; of course there are the expenses 
 of the clerk hire and some stationery which I pay for myself, 
 and all the postage. 
 
 Q. You pay that yourself ? A. 1 pay all the postage, yes, sir ; 
 some six, or seven, or eight hundred dollars a year, which is used 
 for my own business and the State's business. 
 
 Q. You have been careful not to sponge on the State for post- 
 age stamps ? A. No, sir, I have never had any postage stamps 
 from the State. 
 
9i0 BENJAMIN F. LEE. 
 
 Q. Then the value ot the office, take it year in and year out, 
 is about how much? A. That I haven't figured. 
 
 Q. Could you tell me approximately? A. This statement is 
 all qualified with the suggestion that it is done very hurriedly, 
 and there might be a mistake, always against myself, because it 
 can only come trom my failure to take out some personal items. 
 
 Q. So that if there is an error in it it is against yourself ? A. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What do you make the net average value for these past five 
 years, say, that you have mentioned? A. For the past five 
 years ? 
 
 Q. For the four years ending in 1893. A. The office has been 
 worth about $27,000 a year. 
 
 Q. Is that about what it was in 1872, when you took it? A. 
 No: I think the office is very much less. 
 
 Q. Can you give an idea what it would be for the entire 23 
 years — the average ? A. Well, I couldn't — I wouldn't like to, but 
 I will give it to you; it depends largely upon conditions. This 
 office of mine is valuable from three or four considerations ; first, 
 whether it is properly conducted, whether the duties of the office 
 are well performed. I have iu my place men who have been in that 
 office since I came there who are thoroughly familiar with the 
 business of the office, thoroughly competent to perform its duties 
 in every department. There is scarcely a question in practice 
 that could arise, which might tax the industry of an able lawyer 
 to determine for the time being, that is at the tongue's end of 
 somebody in my place, and therefore it makes a desirable office 
 as in competition with the clerk's offices of the county for the 
 lawyers to practice. Then, again, indulgence, long patience, 14 
 years and longer for example — 22 years with some accounts — 
 makes it convenient for many lawyers who are impecunious, 
 haven't much money and yet who pay when they can ; that 
 brings business to the office. Well, then, another thing is the 
 condition of the times ; when the office is very largely dependent 
 upon its searching for ^ts profit — the litigation business is very 
 largely absorbed by the expenses of the office. N"ow, when you 
 have got a boom time, which comes about every twenty 
 years in the world's history, in 1837 and 1857, previous to 
 1877, and now in 1897 — the condition of things I think 
 to-day are very much like about the time of the failure of Jay 
 Cook Company, and the succeeding term after mine will be very 
 much as it was after that; I think the business of the Supreme 
 Court during the flush times of the Southern Pacific Railroad 
 and the great enterprise of wild and reckless speculation in town 
 
BENJAMIN F. LEE. 941 
 
 lots, such as we have had recently, give to my office a great 
 source of profit. Now wo have had a similar condition at this 
 time, and the last term, the last year, 1894, and 1893, and 1892, 
 as seen here, are very profitable years, and compare very tavor- 
 ably with the preceding years, because when you can cut up 
 farms that are worth $150 an acre into town lots and sell them 
 for $2,800 an acre, and make a provision for a population in 
 five years of a city which is as large as it has taken 150 years to 
 make before, and make a Supreme Court search on every lot, 
 and a half dozen times if it is sold again, why you have got a 
 business almost without limit; but that must end as it ended 
 after the failure of Mr. Cook in Philadelphia. Why, my busi- 
 ness practically fell ofi — my searching fell off one-half and the 
 office had comparatively little value. 
 
 Q. When the searching falls off, when these land booms col- 
 lapse, does the other part of the business increase measurably — 
 the litigated part? A. No, sir, that falls with it because for this 
 reason : if a man has a house estimated to be worth $20,000, and 
 he is indebted $10,000, he can usually borrow some money to pay 
 the debt, but when the sheriff commences to make values, 
 as it is quite likely he will commence very soon now, and re- 
 peat the experience of the conditions following the failure of Jay 
 Cook times — that when the sheriff commences to make values 
 and it is discovered that your neighbor's house, which is like 
 yours, sells for the face of the mortgage, then the equity which 
 you have in your house is very much lessened and it is possible 
 it may not be worth while to bring suit ; but the Chancery Court 
 will grow into large proportions, because they have the fore- 
 closures, and their will be some searching in the Supreme Court 
 Clerk's office for the foreclosures — but then the mass of business 
 that has been going on now for the past three or four years cannot 
 surely be expected to continue for the next five. That is a question 
 which I have taken the liberty to suggest and which should be 
 taken into consideration with reference to the treatment of the 
 office from a running standpoint for the next five years. 
 
 Q. Let me ask you about important litigations, what has been 
 the tendency in these past few years, is it toward the court of 
 equity or courts of law ? A. It is toward the court of equity ; 
 it is leaving the Supreme Court and going into Chancery. 
 
 Q. Then in times of collapse, when there are many foreclos- 
 ures, that tends to swell their business? A. Swell their business 
 and depreciate mine. 
 
 Q. But there is a growth in your litigation with the growth of 
 the State? A. Certainly. 
 
942 BENJAMIN F. LEE. 
 
 Q. The judicial fees of your department are quite consider- 
 able ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And, I should imagine, was a fair test of the volume of 
 litigation? A. Yes, sir; and the gro.vth of the business. But 
 I suppose it will sufler in common with the searching. 
 
 Q. There is another subject I would like to speak to you on, 
 aside from fees. Your office is the depository of the records of 
 litigation in this Commonwealth, as I understand it, for two or 
 three centuries back, certainly for two centuries ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are those records of litigations prior to the Revolution in 
 your possession now? A. Yes, sir; going back to 1685. 
 
 Q. Will you kindly tell us where they are and what their con- 
 dition is; it seems to me a matter of historical, as well as other 
 interest? A. May I tell you in a few words the history of that 
 proposition ? 
 
 Q. Yes? A. These records of the Supreme Court, commenc- 
 ing with 1685, comprised chiefly parchment writs and old Eng- 
 lish hand-made paper — which, by the way, has lasted through 
 times much better than the parchment; were contained in boxes 
 and piled away on the shelves in the vault. The declarations 
 were by themselves by terms, and the writs were by themselves, 
 and the pleas were by themselves, and it was almost impossible 
 to find them. When the fire came in the State House the vaults, 
 which were fireproof, were not waterproof; so, on the morning 
 after the fire the walls were covered with icicles and the pipes 
 charged with water, and each man, of course, in the State House, 
 anxious to protect his property, gathered as much help as he 
 could and they were carried down into the cellar and put into 
 the vaults and were stirred up to dry out. Then we moved from 
 here over to the building opposite ; then they commenced the 
 erection of this building; after it was finished, and while the 
 papers were still in the cellar, I think Senator Griggs asked me 
 if I could find some papers bearing upon some litigation or 
 partition near Paterson, and I told him if he would go with me 
 I would show him the papers ; he expressed some surprise at 
 their uondition ; I told him that they were in much better con- 
 dition than they were before ; then he had to climb a ladder, and 
 now he could sit down on a keg and find them at his leisure. 
 
 Q. They were on the floor in the cellar in the State House? 
 A. Yes, sir; like so many bushels of potatoes; and he said 
 " couldn't these be arranged ? " I said " I should be delighted to 
 arrange them ; it would be the delight of my ambition to arrange 
 these papers," and he said, " what would it cost ? " I said, " I don't 
 know what it would cost ; " " what would I do it for ? " I said I 
 
BENJAMIN P. LEE. 943 
 
 would do it for nothing ; if the State would pay the cost of the 
 clerical labor, I would superintend it and would be very glad to 
 do it ; he said, " shall we vote you $3,000 " ? I said, " as you like ; 
 I will use it all, or as much of it as may be necessary " ; so they 
 voted the $2,000 and I employed the clerks ; I took one side of 
 my vault and made 26 compartments for the initial letters, and 
 as I picked up these papers I threw into each compartment the 
 plaintifl'a name with the initial indicated by that box, threw it in 
 there until I would have four or five bushels of Ws and as many 
 bushels of S's ; then when I had completed this I went on the 
 other side of the vault and made 26 other compartments, in 
 which I subdivided all my A's; then I vowelized them so as to 
 make them convenient to discover in my index, and indexed 
 them conveniently for the public ; then I commenced my index, 
 and after two years and a half I think I ran out of money ; the 
 Attorney-General and Mr. Barker Gummere and the Chief Jus- 
 tice had expressed themselves that they were very desirous that 
 this work should continue, and a further appropriation was made 
 by the Legislature upon a little bill which Mr. Gummere drew, 
 continuing the work, and an appropriation of |3,000 was made ; 
 about two years ago I came to the conclusion that that money 
 wouldn't hold out, as it was an interminable job ; it was neces- 
 sary, in deciphering some of those papers, to have a magnifying 
 glass to determine the cases, and I may say to you and the Com- 
 mittee that from half past eight in the morning until five o'clock 
 each day of my life, with occasionally a vacation, but not often, 
 I have devoted my entire time to perfecting and completing that 
 index, without compensation to myself, simply for the satisfaction 
 of having completed a work which I think will be of immense 
 service to the State, and I hope to have them so completed at the 
 expiration of my term that not a name that has ever appeared in 
 the Supreme Court — and there will be possibly 750,000 names — 
 that I will not be able to find for any person who may inquire 
 for it, in two minutes from the time the inquiry is made ; it is 
 valuable in many ways, as a geneological record, because in 
 almost every case the plaintiff or defendant had his occupation 
 stated in the writ, as well as his residence. If his wife was 
 named it was usually stated who she was ; if she was a widow, 
 whose widow she was, and in many cases whose daughter she 
 was so that you not only have a valuable record of the court 
 cases, but you have to a very large extent a very valuable geneo- 
 logical record. 
 
 A very important case was determined, as I may say to the 
 Committee, recently in which a suit against the Earl of Sterling, 
 
944 BENJAMIN F. LEE. 
 
 William Alexander, was depending, the present occupants, I 
 think, claiming the property under a syipposed sale by the sheriff 
 upon an execution obtained from a judgment that was held by 
 the State, the decedents claiming that that judgment had expired 
 by limitation, that no execution had ever been issued, and, con- 
 sequently, there was no deed from the sheriff; if there had been, 
 these people were not entitled to possession of the property ; so, 
 upon application, I went through all these papers, which would 
 have been impossible before. I found as many as 25 or 30 
 envelopes possibly containing the pleadings in the case, for the 
 purpose of supplying each individual case, but I found no case 
 of The State against William Alexander ; but I did find a case 
 of some individual against William Alexander, Earl of Sterling, 
 and upon going into the envelope I discovered the papers that 
 are ordinary in a case of that sort, with an execution issued to 
 the county of Somerset, with the return of the sheriff", "no 
 property ; " an execution issued in the county of Essex returned 
 "no property;" and an execution issued to the county of Mon- 
 moutb, with the return by the sheriff with a levy upon this 
 property, and turning it over on the back was the record of the 
 sale : and upon the requisition of the party I made him a certi- 
 fied copy of this paper, which probably was about the first that 
 had been made of any paper since the Revolution. 
 
 Q. How old was that writ? A. That writ I think was in 1770 
 about. 
 
 Q. So that you find these papers have still a value as title 
 records ? ^. I have often had inquiries ; they have ceased to make 
 inquiries long ago because they knew they couldn't find them. 
 Professor Scott, of Rutgers, wanted to demonstrate, I believe the 
 first decision of the court against the act of a Legislature, claims 
 that he had found it in these papers in the Supreme Court o 
 New Jersey, and used them in his address the other day, I 
 think, at the Historical Society's meeting, for the presentation of 
 a medal to General Harrison. 
 
 Q. Are these papers still in a condition so that with proper 
 care they can yet be preserved for a long time to come? A. 
 Yes, sir ; they have been in existence for 200 years, jand they 
 will continue now for all time. 
 
 Q. And during your present term you hope to entirely com- 
 plete that work ? J.. I hope to entirely complete it, and I pro- 
 pose to go on and do it ; I don't propose to ask the Legislature 
 for any more money. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Allow me to ask how- much money 
 altogether has the State appropriated for this work ? A. $5,000. 
 
FENJAMIN F. LEE, 945 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then this work has been done by 
 yon for $5,000 for clerk hire ? A. Yea, sir; I paid the expenses 
 -of the last year myself ; I paid both clerks last year out of my 
 own bank account, because I saw I was going to need money for 
 my indexes, and without I did something towards it myself — I 
 was anxious to have it done, I have given my own work to it ; I 
 have been for two years and a half working on it, but the work 
 of my office hss gone on with my assistants in the office. 
 
 Q. There is no further donation necessary then on the part of 
 the Legislature to preserve those records ? A. No, sir; I think 
 I shall be able to finish it; it is a matter of interest possibly — I 
 am indebted very largely to Senator Griggs for the interest he 
 took in it at the beginning. 
 
 Q. Will you kindly continue these statements which you have 
 commenced to make and verify them and lay them before the 
 Committee as soon as you can, that they may put them in the 
 record? A. Yes, sir ; I might state that what ought to be taken 
 into consideration is that the last year of the Clerk, he will have 
 a bitter experience likely in the failure of a great many 
 to pay their bills, because he then will be powerless 
 to enforce the order of the court that they shall pay after the first 
 term; a great many men, of course, cannot pay; they have to 
 wait until they get their costs, young lawyers who are impecun- 
 ious. All these men who are disbarred, unfortunately I have 
 had some experience with them ; one who was recently disbarred 
 I have two notes protested of $225, for which I have paid the 
 State $107 for its share of the fees, and a like experience with a 
 good many others that I can name ; many of these accounts are 
 paid by notes ; I think my notes that have passed through my 
 books for payment of accounts number some eight or nine 
 hundred; many of the accounts are collected by drafts; at the 
 last term I sent out thirty-six drafts through one bank ; there 
 came back but two ; I sent forty-six drafts to another city and 
 there came back but five ; through the Trenton Banking Com- 
 pany I sent erne hundred and twenty drafts, and there were 
 thirteen collected. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do I understand these drafts are 
 made upon lawyers ? A. Yes, sir ; for any number of terms ; 
 never for one, never for two, and never for three ; but not until 
 they have got to be four or five terms, or two or three years, 
 when I make out a draft, and the loss is very likely to be 
 great at the last year. I think Mr. Barker Gummere's 
 experience was a very bitter one; I think my friend 
 /Over yonder (indicating Mr. Little) may possibly, if he were 
 
 60 SH 
 
946 INCREASE OP STATE EXPBNDITUKES. 
 
 called upon, state some of his experience. I have understood 
 that Mr. Little's losses were $30,000 ; Mr. Charles B. Smith's 
 were $32,000, of which he collected $5,000. So in estimating 
 the value of the office, I think it is wise to take a little account 
 of what is to come ofi. 
 
 Mr. Oorbin — There is a silver lining to this cloud.. 
 The emoluments of the office which Mr. Lee has stated 
 to us, $27,000 a year, is the value of the cash receipts 
 already received, and while it may be a bitter experience, 
 still for several years after the Clerk goes out of office 
 he will have this fund to draw upon and will get this 
 income by fragments that will be coming in from these 
 attorneys who do not accept the drafts. 
 
 [Mr. Lee's Statement. See Schedule at end of the book.] 
 
 INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 
 
 I desire to lay before the Committee for the purpose of enter- 
 ing in the record some schedules which I have had prepared in 
 regard to the expenditures of the State for a series of years, 
 which will give you the facts in a way that you cannot get them 
 by merely looking at the printed reports that we now have. 
 First, I have a schedule of the total expenditures of the State 
 from State Fund, so called, for the past twenty years,, 
 and I have asked the Comptroller to separate them into 
 ordinary expenses of government, and extraordinary expenses. 
 Of course it is largely a matter of judgment what you will call 
 extraordinary expenses, but the Comptroller's Department has 
 been over it very carefully, and also submitted it to counsel, and 
 finally agreed that the column which we have called here " extra- 
 ordinary," are the unusual expenses. This schedule shows the 
 total for twenty years, from 1875 to 1894 — the gross expenditures 
 in 1875 were $1,720,000; in 1876, $1,639,000; in 1877, $1,498,000; 
 in 1878, $1,476,000. Those were exceptionally large, because 
 in those years the State was paying something like a half million 
 dollars a year for the completion of the Morris Plains Asylum^ 
 After those years beginning with 1879 the gross expenditures of 
 the State were about a million dollars a year for a number of 
 years, and they did not sensibly increase until 1885, when they 
 were about $1,200,000, and then in 1887 $1,400,000; in 1889, 
 $1,400,000; in 1890, $1,600,000, and so on up until last year, when 
 they were $1,930,000. In these last few years there have again 
 been extraordinary expenses ; last year $184,000 for armories, 
 
INCEEA8E OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 947 
 
 and 80 forth ; in the year previous about $200,000 ; in the year 
 1891, $290,000, extraordinary for the rebuilding of the Assembly 
 Chamber and such expenses. 
 
 The payments for the public debt, which are in still another 
 column, run about the same, $90,000 a year ; last year they were 
 $92,000 ; they vary, however, and will vary hereafter according 
 to the dates of the maturity of the public debt, which is rapidly 
 being retired. 
 
 The column here which I think is most interesting, and which 
 may have some value to you, is the column showing the ordinary 
 expenditures of the government. They were in 1875, $796,000 ; 
 in 1876, $891,000; in 1877, $908,000; in 1880, $900,000 ; in 1885, 
 $1,109,000; in 1890, $1,384,000; in 1894, $1,653,000. They 
 have considerably more than doubled in twenty years ; and it is 
 carious to note that for the first ten years, from 1875 to 1884, 
 there was a very slight difference in the State expenses ; they 
 had only increased from $800,000 to $1,000,000; but from 1885 
 to the present time, the increase has been very rapid; the judi- 
 ciary is one item of rapid increase because of the added number 
 of judges, the greatly increased salaries, and furthermore the in- 
 troduction of the salary system ; the judges were formerly paid 
 by their fees; the judiciary expenses have gone up from $65,000 
 to $171,000. 
 
 The expenditures for the military department of the State 
 have very remarkably increased; twenty years ago they 'were 
 $44,000 ; last year they were $219,000 ; the increase has been"" 
 steady, and yet in these last ten years it has gone up by leaps 
 and bounds. In 1885 it was $89,000, and that was by far the 
 largest up to that time. Now, to take up this militia matter, 
 you will remember that the most serious strikes I suppose the 
 State ever had to deal with were the railroad strikes of 1877 ; the 
 militia expenses that year were about $37,000, but the next year 
 when the bills were paid they were $66,000 ; they immediately 
 dropped back to $55,000, but then the militia was strengthened, 
 and after 1879 they have never been less than $60,000, except 
 in one year ; for these past nine years they have been above 
 $100,000 in every year, except in 1892, and I ought to say that 
 this extraordinary sum of $219,000 last year includes $88,000 for 
 armories, but I ought also to say that this list of funds charged 
 to the militia account in this statement does by no means include 
 all the cost of the military department. The Adjutant-General's 
 office is not here ; the Quartermaster-General's office is not here ; 
 the pensions connected with the militia are not here ; none of 
 these asylums or retreats are here ; there are other expenditures 
 
948 INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 
 
 which smack of military service that are not mentioned here 
 at all. 
 
 The expenses since the establishment of the State Camp at 
 Sea Girt have, of course, necessarily increased. I have made 
 nothing more than a surface examination of those expenditures, 
 but the mere reading of the printed book shows very heavy 
 expenses, which might well raise the question, I think, in the 
 minds of the Committee, whether an annual appropriation 
 fixing the sum for the maintenance of the militia would not be 
 a good thing. As it is now, there is no limit in the law to what 
 may be spent, and when men are free to spend all they please 
 they are apt to spend a good deal. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I presume the increase of the last ten 
 years is because the law was changed by which the men 
 attending the annual encampment at Sea Girt were paid 
 for their time ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That for the last eight or ten years has 
 added very largely to the expenses. 
 
 Some laws have been passed this year which are 
 likely to add to this military budget, the organization 
 of African companies and the law for the establishment 
 of the Naval Reserve. Those will be expensive if they 
 are to be kept up. 
 
 Now take the Bureau of Statistics of Labor and In- 
 dustries; those things grow. Take the inspection of 
 factories and workshops, and take the Dairy Commis- 
 sioner ; take the State Board of Taxation ; you have 
 two State Boards of Taxation drawing pretty good 
 round salaries ; one the State Board of Taxation and 
 the other the State Board of Assessors. Take those 
 things and add them up and you will be surprised at the 
 total that has been added to the State expenditures for 
 this great variety of luxuries which we now enjoy. The 
 game and fish wardens to protect the fish that we are 
 supposed to have in Union county and other counties, 
 will cost the State more than $30,000 this year. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — There are more game and fish 
 wardens in Union county than there are fish. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, of course the expenses of the gov- 
 ernment will expand with the population, and all that, 
 but it does seem that if there is a desire to curtail and 
 limit them there is ample opportunity of doing it ; it 
 will have to be by change of existing laws, however. 
 
INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 949 
 
 Senator Skirm — Oa this great increase of expense of 
 the militia, does your examination show where that ex- 
 pense has been incurred. Does the camp at Sea Girt 
 add largely to the expense ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Somewhat ; but is only one of the large 
 items. 
 
 Senator Skirm — They have a very valuable plant 
 there. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The rifle practice is very expensive — 
 $20,000 a year. Now, whether that could not be con- 
 ducted in connection with the other drills when the 
 regiment is camped there, I don't know. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I think the order of the State Mili- 
 tary Board in the last week somewhat changed the 
 method by which the regiments will go into camp 
 separately and have their rifle practice at the same 
 time, which will be a very great saving possibly to the 
 State. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Isn't that expense incurred by 
 rifle practice largely made up of the salaries to the 
 officers ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The range officers are kept there for 
 some months; the men are not paid while they are 
 shooting; their transportation is paid while they are 
 shooting, but the officers are kept there at the expense 
 of the State. The details of those things are better 
 understood by military men than by a man of peace, 
 like myself, but it does seem in that account there 
 might be a curtailment, and I suggest to the Com- 
 mittee the propriety of an annual appropriation. 
 
 COST OF THE DEPARTMENT OF MILITIA. 
 Year, Miliiia. 
 
 1875 $44,725 
 
 1876 65,947 
 
 1877 36,977 
 
 1878 66,020 
 
 1879 55,839 
 
 1880 82,245 
 
 1881 73,515 
 
 1882 70,692 
 
 1883 62.887 
 
 1884 , 71,823 
 
 1885 89,861 
 
 1886 109.042 
 
950 CHARLES H. SIMMEEMAN. 
 
 Year. Militia. 
 
 1887 $108,597 
 
 1888 114,968 
 
 1889 123,516 
 
 1890 144,882 
 
 1891 119.539 
 
 1892.... 84,814 
 
 1893 117,695 
 
 1894 219,773 
 
 Note.— Id the item of $219,778 for militia, 1894, is 
 included the appropriation for armories, amounting to 
 $88,890.98. 
 
 Recess. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I referred this morning, among other 
 expenditures, to the expenditures of some of the smaller 
 boards and bureaus, and among others was the Bureau 
 of Statistics of Labor and Industry. I will take that 
 up now, with the permission of the Committee. 
 
 Charles H. Simmerman, sworn. 
 
 Examined by Mr. Corbin. 
 
 Q. You are the Chief of the Bureau of Statistics of Labor and 
 Industries? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And have been how long? A. Two years the first of last 
 April. 
 
 Q. When was that Board established? A. 1878—1 think 
 March 14th. 
 
 Q. I see. in the Treasurer's accounts, payment first, of salary — 
 your own salary, $2,500, and then paid to you for disbursements 
 at different dates $5,285.37 for the last fiscal year, making a total 
 of $7,735.37. I have here one of your vouchers to the Comp- 
 troller, and I see by the method of keeping your accounts that 
 the money is all paid directly to the Chief of the Bureau. Will 
 you explain how you keep your accounts — why it is paid in that 
 method instead of being paid directly to the claimants? A. 
 Oaly under the law, as we understand it, that the appropriations 
 are to be disbursed on vouchers by the Cbief — certified by him. 
 
 Q. You refer to the act establishing the Board ? Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Approved March 27, 1878, Pamphlet Laws, Chap. 105, do 
 you? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The fourth question is as follows : " That the compensa- 
 tion of said Chief shall be $2,.S0O annual salary, and he is hereby 
 authorized, in concurrence with the Governor and Comptroller, 
 to employ such assistance and incur such expense in the dis- 
 
CHARLES H. SIMMEBMAN. 951 
 
 charge of his official duties, not exceeding the sum of $2,000, in- 
 cluding printing, stationery, traveling expenses, postage and so 
 iorth ; provided that no assistant shall receive more than four 
 dollars per day." That annual appropriation has been increased, 
 has it not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Until I see, last year, you spent $5,235 ? A. Well, the 
 $200 was the amount as it came to me by Mr. McNeely, the As- 
 sistant Comptroller ; the State paid for the blanks, printing, &c. 
 
 Q. Well, the appropriation was $5,000 ? A. Yes, sir ; we 
 didn't exceed our appropriation. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — If the amount expended by your 
 department was $5,235, how is it you didn't exceed the 
 amount ? A. Some years ago when the contracts for giving out 
 the supplies by contract the first of April, our department was 
 included among the other departments. Now, 1 never saw that 
 statement in the Tresurer's accounts until this spring, and I 
 asked Mr. McNeely and he said there was no other place to ac- 
 count for it only in that way; that is all I know about it. 
 
 Q. Your appropriations as now made are also made exclusive, 
 are they not, of printing, stationery, supplies and salary of secre- 
 tary ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that really the appropriation has not only been increased 
 from $2,000 to $5,000, but these other items must be added also. 
 Now I see in last year's Treasurer's report, paid McCrellish & 
 Quigley, for printing 4,500 copies of your report, $2,955.64, which 
 is in addition to these figures that I have shown you? A. Yes, 
 sir ; that always was the printing of the reports. 
 
 Q. No. The act as originally passed required that the $4,000 
 should include all your printing, stationery, postage, &c. A. 
 I have always understood that the printing, as interpreted by the 
 act, included the current necessary printing. 
 
 Q. Then you mean to say that your annual report has always 
 been printed outside of your appropriation ? A. Yes, sir ; from 
 the start. 
 
 Q. So that the appropriation of $5,000 which the Legislature 
 makes really is only a starting point towards arriving at what 
 your bureau costs? A. Well, that is so; that always has been 
 included in it. 
 
 Q. Now the salary of the Secretary is, by these later acts, also 
 excluded from your appropriations ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How much is that? A. $1,200. 
 
 Q. That is in the salary account of the Comptroller's oflice ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
952 CHAELBS H. SIMMERMAN. 
 
 Q. I will call off these amounts ; if I fall in error will jom 
 kindly correct me. Expenses for the year 1894 : 
 
 Salary, C.'H. Simmerman, Chief $2,500 00 
 
 Salary of Secretary James A. Morgan 1,200 00 
 
 Printing Annual Eeport 2,955 00 
 
 Expenses 5,235 37 
 
 Total $11,890 37 
 
 And then you get some stationery, supplies, &c., outside, also, 
 do yon not ? J.. I don't know what they cost, but it is that 
 item in the report that you read. 
 
 Q. But under the law as now amended you also have station- 
 ery supplies outside ; how much does that amount to ? A. 1 
 don't know, because it is included in the 200 some odd dollars. 
 Q. The total of the items we have got is $11,890. I observe 
 that this, nearly $8,000, is for printing this annual report, which 
 is a pamphlet of 490 pages, almost all of it figure work ; that ia 
 the price, I think, even by contract, isn't it ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you need so many copies as 4,500 ? A . We did have 
 8,000 up till within — for four or five years, till during the last 
 administration of Governor Abbett. 
 
 Senator Daly — It is the most valuable document 
 published in this State. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — You refer now to the lawyer's brief in 
 the end of it? 
 
 Senator Daly — No, I refer to the whole thing. 
 Witness — Why it was reduced to 4,500 I don't know; 
 it was during the time Mr. Bishop was Chief. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Here are tables showing the average 
 rent paid by milliners ; that may be important, but it 
 doesn't seem to appeal to me. 
 
 Senator Daly — It appeals to the laborer in this State. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — No, they don't give a hooter for a 
 
 milliner; she doesn't belong to the labor union. 
 
 Q. Did yoa find 8,000 to be too many? ^1. Why it was 
 
 reduced I don't know ; we always, up till within the last three or 
 
 four years, never could supply the demand ; our early numbers 
 
 are all out ; whenever our books are wanted, we have to buy 
 
 them. 
 
 Q. There are a thousand copies of 1888 yet on hand. A. Yes, 
 sir ; I will explain that ; up to within the time that Mr. Ford 
 came into the State House the old janitors used to reserve 1,500- 
 copies that they sent to the Members and the Senators, made up 
 
CHARLES H. SIMMERMAN. 953 
 
 a box with other supplies, and they always retained that many of 
 our books ; but since then they have not been doing it, and that 
 is the number now that is on hand ol these recent years. 
 
 Q. Who is there that demands these to such great extent ? 
 A. The labor organizations generally, but the lawyers largely. 
 I think we get as many applications from lawyers as any indi- 
 viduals except the labor organizations. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — When Mr. Naar's matter was under 
 inquiry the other day some one used the term " fat." I 
 would like to have the Committee look at this report of 
 1893. This is a very expensive report, even by contract 
 it costs nearly $3,000. 
 
 Senator Skirm — They don't pay for a whole page 
 when there is only a little on it ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — That is the testimony ; even blank pages 
 are paid for. 
 Q. Couldn't you, by a little judicious condensation, or gathering 
 these reports together, get them into less than 500 or 600 tables ? 
 A. I will state that we have what we call a contest, every year with 
 the printer, to condense, but the printers have a rule of doing 
 the work under contract to suit themselves ; we have no control 
 over them. 
 
 Q. But they give a page to every table you give them even if 
 the table has only a dozen figures in it. A. Of course, they have 
 the manuscript and they place it in the book to suit themselves. 
 
 Q. But is there any value in continuing to repeat these tables 
 year after year ? A. Well, that would be a long question to 
 answer. There isn't no repeated tables except in one line of in- 
 vestigation and that is the duration of trade life. We have 
 attempted to investigate the period of time that men usually 
 follow a trade. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Can you find that out by your statis- 
 tics ? A. We have now succeeded in about forty-six different 
 trades ; the work has been circulated throughout the whole 
 world nearly : I have never heard any adverse criticism by any 
 of the scientists or anybody else. 
 
 Q. They don't criticise it at all, do they ? A. Well, our books are 
 in nearly all the libraries of the industrial countries of the world. 
 It was discussed in the World's Statistical Convention in Breslin 
 two years ago, and that particular feature was commended very 
 high, 
 
 Q. About finding out how long people worked at a trade ? 
 A. Yes, sir; that particular line of investigation. 
 
954 CHARLES H. SIMMEEMAN. 
 
 Q. How do you find out all about these facts? A. We have a 
 formulated blank with certain questions, and we require to ob- 
 tain an individual stateiuent from all the workmen in the estab- 
 lishments that we are inquiring into. 
 
 Q. And you tabulate those responses? A. We get what we — 
 
 Q. Get all the workmen in the State ? J.. No ; in that particular 
 branch ; for instance, the glass-blowers, the hatters and the pot- 
 ters, was the first year's work ; now we got all of them over 21 
 years of age. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Do you think that possible ? A. Well, 
 we get about — 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Because it don't strike me as an intel- 
 ligent man that it is within the bounds of possibility to do it. 
 A. I can say this; we got the number in my own trade, the glass 
 blowers ; I know just how many there were in the trade ; I know 
 how many we got. 
 
 Q. That is a trade that is confined to narrow limits geograph- 
 ically, a peculiar trade in every respect ; but you take any ordin- 
 ary trade like the carpenters or people working in factories of 
 any sort, what do these statistics amount to more than the com- 
 pilation of a lot of fragmentary facts ? -4. I don't consider them 
 fragmentary. 
 
 Q. What more could you get except by a force of census 
 takers? A. Let me explain that ; for instance, we are inquiring 
 into the textile trades, woolen and cotton — 
 
 Q. Silk? A. No. Now, in order to arrive at it we have to 
 select establishments, for instance, that have been in existence 
 for a long period of years where the workmen have had an 
 opportunity to remain for successive generations. Now, we can't 
 take all the woolen establishments in this State, it would not be 
 an indication — that is, where they have doubled their capacity 
 for instance, that would not be fair. Now, when we take the old 
 establishments, supposing we get four or five now, and get all of 
 the workmen in those establishments, we believe that that is 
 reliable. 
 
 Q. Suppose you find out that girls do work in a woolen mill 
 an average of six years, before they get married or die, what 
 does it amount to after you have got it done? A, It would show 
 that whatever the general average is, that that was the average 
 of the people working at a trade life. 
 
 Q. What value is that after you have got it ? A. It is this : 
 supposing we maintain that if with a workman, a man for instance 
 can only work a period of 15 years at a trade. 
 
CHARLES H. SIMMEEMAN. 955 
 
 Q. You mean that he only does work that period ? A. Sup- 
 pose at that period they begin to fall back, because that is espec- 
 ially what we inquire into, one of the features, it would certainly, 
 in an equitable adjustment of wages indicate that a man working 
 at that trade ought to be paid more wages than one where a man 
 can work 25 years. 
 
 Q. That sort of information belongs to peculiar trades like 
 glass blowing and such trades as that, unwholesome trades? 
 A. You can only ccfmpare trades. 
 
 Q. Now, the most numerous trade in New Jersey, the carpen- 
 ters and farmers' trade ; have you made any figures with regard 
 to their longevity ? A. Haven't reached them yet. 
 
 Q. Don't you think that a serious inquiry into that trade would 
 show that getting up at 4 o'clock in the morning was very 
 unwholesome? A. Well, I haven't thought about that; I don't 
 think it would be necessary. 
 
 Q. "Why didn't you think about the farmers, one of the most 
 numerous clasess, as well as the glass blowers, who are one of 
 the smallest of all classes ; why shouldn't you do so ? A. In 
 order to complete our work I should say that the farmers before 
 the table is complete, before the work is complete, that ought to 
 be done so that we can compare the relative duration of occupa- 
 tions. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — How long do you suppose your 
 labors would be continued in gathering these statistics. 
 Senator Skirm — During his natural life. 
 
 A. I should say this in reply to the Chairman : in 1878 
 when I was before the committee in this Senate asking to have 
 this bureau established, one of the Senators asked me this ques- 
 tion : What good I expected would come from the establishment 
 of this bureau ; what good would it do the working people ? My 
 answer was, that I couldn't tell for nearly a generation, because 
 it would take that time to collect sufficient matter to make any- 
 thing like a generalization. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — That is thirty-three years ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; we have gone on, and since then thirty-three States 
 in the United States and the general government has established 
 similar bureaus ; five of the principal governments of Europe 
 have imitated us. 
 
 Q. Is New Jersey the pioneer in this business? A. Massa- 
 chusetts was first; that was established, I think, in 1868 or 1869 ; 
 Pennsylvania was established too. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — There is a national bureau, is 
 there not? A. Yes, sir. 
 
956 CHARLES H. SIMMERMAN. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees)— Doesn't their work include just 
 this work that you have been engaged upon ? A. No, not exactly 
 on the same line. 
 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — This is more in detail? A. Not 
 in the lines in which we undertook particularly ; yes, it is too ; it 
 applies more to New Jersey industries ; the bureau at Washing- 
 ton of more of a national, 
 
 Q. They don't exclude New Jersey? A. No; for instance, in 
 investigating women's work as comparative, I think they took six 
 establishments in Newark, some years ago. 
 
 Q. Then until Massachusetts and New Jersey began to get 
 together this sort of information, it was something new in the 
 history of the world ? A. We understand it. 
 
 Q. Whose theory was it that this sort of thing was of value ? 
 A. I will tell you what I understand to have been the origin of 
 labor bureaus. The trades unions of the country in the sixties 
 formed what is called the National Labor Congress. I think it 
 was in 1867 or 1868, was the first time that that body 
 of representative men, who represented about 500,000 organized 
 workmen, for the first time in the history of this 
 country, they attempted to formulate a platform, or demands to 
 improve what they considered their conditions. William H. 
 Sylvus, president of that body, made this remark. He says: 
 " We can formulete resolutions of our opinions just as well as any 
 other convention can do or has done in the past ; but," he says, 
 " after all, it is nothing more than our opinions. What is needed 
 is the facts, the data," and offered a resolution which was incorpo- 
 rated into the platform of that convention, asking for the estab- 
 lishment of labor bureaus, for the collection of statistics by the 
 general government and of each of the States. Within a year or 
 more after that the Massachusetts Bureau was instituted, and the 
 balance of them have followed successively. 
 
 Q. Is it your theory that by getting these facts together, show- 
 ing about how long a man will work at a trade, or will live at it, 
 that you can regulate his wages in any degree by these tables ? 
 A. In answer to that I would say, I don't think a man can do 
 anything that he don't know ; the first thing is to get the facts. 
 
 Q. Well, isn't it a commonly known fact that supply and de- 
 mand and the character of labor, which is well understood, like 
 glass blowing, for instance, that causes which are entirely beyond 
 statistics are bound to regulate these things ? A. No, sir; I don't 
 think so. 
 
 Q. You think the statistics are more powerful than supply and 
 demand ? A. 1 don't think there is an effect without a cause. 
 
CHARLES H. SIMMEKMAN. 957 
 
 Q. Take glass blowing ; it is well known that men engaged in 
 that unwholesome occupation get exceedingly large wages while 
 they work? A. I don't think it is because of the unhealthy oc- 
 cupation. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Then why is it? A. One of the rea- 
 sons that T would say why they have got high wages this last 20 
 years, is because they have had a very strong organization. 
 There have been no foreign workmen come into the trade. 
 Ninety-eight per cent of all the glass-blowers are Americans. 
 
 Q. (By Senator Skirm) — Is that the reason, then, that they get 
 higher wages, than because of the other elements ? 
 
 Senator Daly — They are protected by unions. 
 
 A. That was one of the reasons. 
 
 Q. Do you think your statistics helped it? A. There are other 
 reasons why one tradesman gets more than another. 
 
 Q. Aren't the causes which influenced these matters so subtle 
 that no tabular arrangements can aflect them materially? A. 
 No, sir ; I have been studying these problems for the last 
 30 years, as to what settles them. 
 
 Senator Daly — As a matter of fact, hasn't it been 
 organized labor that has generally regulated wages ? 
 Senator Skirm — Regardless of years, you mean ? 
 Senator Daly — I don't care what it is. 
 
 Witness — No; I wouldn't say it in that broad sense. In special 
 boards it is ; labor has never been organized sufficiently strong 
 except in a few trades, to control wages where they have been. 
 
 Q. By Senator Daly — Wherever ■ organized labor exists, isn't 
 the wages higher ; isn't that so? A. You can date the periods 
 of highest wages in the organized trades to the periods when 
 they have had the best organizations. 
 
 Q. Now, we are generalizing ; it is a matter of opinion. Farm 
 hands are not organized as a rule and yet their wages are very 
 high. A. It is just because we do all have a seperate opinion is 
 the very proof, and is the proof that these things are not under- 
 stood, are not scientific; if they were scientific there would be 
 no disputes about them. 
 
 Q. Do you fancy you can reduce them to any mathematical 
 basis by pursuing these tables? A. We believe we are pursuing 
 the only course by which that can be arrived at; that is my 
 opinion. 
 
 Q. To recur to your bill which I showed you at the outset ; I 
 see you put in a bill to the State for disbursements ; this one 
 of May, 1895, is for $381 ; who are these people named here, for 
 
958 CHARLES H. SIMMERMAN. 
 
 example, Michael J. McKennon, $106? A. He is what is called 
 an enumerator. 
 
 Q. Reuben Cheesman, $78; James J. Morgan, $136? A. 
 Same character, traveling expenses, &c., incurred. 
 
 Q. Under the present management you employ these people 
 to do the work which you consider valuable for the bureau and 
 pay them yourself, and put in your bill to the State ; is that it ? 
 A. No, sir ; they make out bills and I approve them, if I believe 
 they are correct, and present them to the Governor, and he writes 
 his approval. 
 
 Q. He approves your account? Q. Yes, sir; now then, I 
 draw that money ; my checks are made out, Charles H. Simmer- 
 man, Chief; I deposit them in the Mechanics' Bank in the name 
 of Charles H. Simmerman, Chief, and draw my checks for these 
 amounts, signed Charles H. Simmerman, Chief. 
 Q. To these individuals ? A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I draw the Committee's attention to 
 that ; it is in the same line as the matter of the Dairy 
 Commission, to which I before called attention ; it is 
 exceptional in the management of the finances of the 
 State. The ordinary way of paying people who are in 
 the employ of the bureau or an officer is to pay them 
 the State's check directly, and I have called attention to 
 it that the tJemmittee might consider whether they 
 would make a recommendation with respect to the 
 method of the management of the board and other 
 boards. 
 Q. (By Chairman Voorhees) — Can you give the Committee an 
 idea of the probable amount of expenses for the ensuing year ? 
 A. Precisely what the appropriation is, $5,000, except the print- 
 ing of the reports and the stationeries ; so far as we know, about 
 the same as last year. 
 
INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITTRBS. 
 
 959 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I desire to ofler in evidence, and have 
 entered upon the record this schedule which I pre- 
 sented this morning, of the gross annual expenditures 
 of the State for the past twenty years. 
 
 STATEMENT OP EXPENDITURES FROM STATE FUND FOR TWENTY 
 
 YEARS — ORDINARY AND EXTRAORDINARY. 
 
 Gross. Ordinary. Extraordinary. 
 
 1875 $1,720,635 31 $796,339 14 $753,526 39 
 
 1876 1,639,147 47 891,798 77 571,000 00 
 
 1877 1,498,200 79 908,877 64 409,403 78 
 
 1878 1,476,855 28 986,988 64 317,658 05 
 
 1879 1,067,027 21 891,282 69 49,147 73 
 
 1880 1,007,379 34 900,879 34 16,500 00 
 
 1881 1,096,203 93 982,297 95 23,905 98 
 
 1882 1,104,303 75 996,668 58 17,635 17 
 
 1883 1,077,748 33 963,679 76 24,068 57 
 
 1884 1,070,198 29 1,010,389 56 9,808 73 
 
 1885 1,208,900 46 1,109,706 31 59,194 15 
 
 1886 1,258,862 49 1,080,757 67 88,104 82 
 
 1887 1,436,044 59 1,184,885 71 161,158 88 
 
 1888 1,542,007 72 1,163,75161 288,256 11 
 
 1889 1,405,849 02 1,203,468 94 112,380 08 
 
 1890 1,602,933 75 1,384,860 57 128,073 18 
 
 1891 1,772,005 68 1,891,836 03 290,169 65 
 
 1892 1,698,405 70 1,426,609 06 219,196 64 
 
 1893 1,857,982 83 1,573,447 44 198,235 39 
 
 1894 1,930,255 22 1,653,535 31 184,719 91 
 
 Public Debt 
 and Interest. 
 
 1170,769 78 
 176,348 70 
 179,919 37 
 172,208 59 
 126,596 79 
 
 Public Debt. 
 90,000 00 
 
 90,000 00 
 90,000 00 
 90,000 00 
 50,000 OO 
 40,000 00 
 90,000 00 
 90,000 OO 
 90,000 00 
 90,000 00 
 90,000 00 
 90,000 00 
 52,600 00 
 86,300 00 
 92,000 00 
 
 Details of the Extraordinary Disbursements. 
 1875. 
 
 Morristown Asylum $600,526 39 
 
 Public Debt and Interest 170,769 78 
 
 Ceutennial Stock 80,000 00 
 
 Public Schools 25,000 00 
 
 Appropriation to Trenton Asylum 15,000 00 
 
 State House Extension $15,000 00 
 
 Soldiers' Monument at Beverly 10,000 00 
 
 Appropriation for Gas Works at State Prison 8,000 00 
 
 1876. 
 
 $924,296 17 
 
 Morristown Asylum $500,000 00 
 
 Public Debt and Interest 176,348 70 
 
 Centennial Stock 20,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Reform School for Boys....... 17,500 00 
 
 Public Schools 17,000 00 
 
 Centennial Commission 16,500 00 
 
 $747,348 70 
 
960 INCREASE OP STATE EXPENDITURES. 
 
 1877. 
 
 Morristown Asylum $250,000 00 
 
 Public Debt and Interest 179,919 37 
 
 Public Schools 74,000 00 
 
 Preservation of the Peace 50,000 00 
 
 State Prison Extension 35,000 00 
 
 Centennial School Appropriation 403 78 
 
 $589,323 15 
 1878. 
 
 Public Schools $209,000 00 
 
 Public Debt and Interest 172,208 59 
 
 State Prison Extension ." 58,994 12 
 
 Preservation of the Peace 33,690 38 
 
 Special Appropriation to Reforjn School for Boys 8,000 00 
 
 Rebellion Records 7,973 55 
 
 $489,866 64 
 1879. 
 
 Public Debt and Interest $126,596 79 
 
 Special Appropriation to Normal School 31,225 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Reform School for Boys 13,000 00 
 
 State Prison Improvement 3,922 73 
 
 State Prison Extension 1,000 00 
 
 $175,744 52 
 1880. 
 
 Public Debt $90,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Morristown Asylum 15,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Industrial Schools for Girls 
 
 (Dwelling) 1,500 00 
 
 1881. $106,500 00 
 
 Public Debt $90,000 00 
 
 Yorktown Centennial 10,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation for Water Supply and Farm 
 
 Buildings at Reform School for Boys 10,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation for Hospital at Home for Dis- 
 abled Soldiers...-: 3,000 00 
 
 Cowpens Memorial 905 98 
 
 1882. $113,905 98 
 
 Public Debt $90,000 00 
 
 Yorktown Centennial 17,510 17 
 
 Yorktown Memorial 125 00 
 
 $107,635 17 
 
INCBEASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 961 
 
 1883. 
 
 Public Debt $90,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation, to Eeform School for Boys, for 
 
 Family House 7,000 00 
 
 State Prison Gas Works 6,568 57 
 
 Special Appropriation, to Morris Plains Asylum, to 
 
 purchase land for right of way 5,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation, to Home for Disabled Soldiers, 
 
 (burial-ground) 3,000 00 
 
 Monmouth Battle Monument 2,000 00 
 
 Southern Exposition 500 00 
 
 $114,068 57 
 1884. 
 
 Public Debt $50,000 00 
 
 Appropriation, for new wall at State Prison 7,410 63 
 
 Special Appropriation, to Reform School, for Store 
 
 House 2,000 00 
 
 Balance of Appropriation, for Gas Works at State 
 
 Prison 398 10 
 
 $59,808 73 
 1885. 
 
 Public Debt $40,000 00 
 
 Obsequies of General Grant 11,098 39 
 
 Appropriation for New Shops at State Prison 11,029 06 
 
 Monmouth Battle Monument 10,417 04 
 
 New Orleans Exposition $9,985 89 
 
 Appropriation for New Wall at State Prison 9,664 27 
 
 Appropriation to Reform School for Boys 7,000 00 
 
 ?,194 15 
 1886. 
 
 Public Debt $90,000 00 
 
 Appropriation for New Capitol 37,744 95 
 
 Special Appropriation to Morris Plains Asylum for 
 
 System of Sewerage 22,500 00 
 
 Special Appropriation for New Building at Home for 
 
 Disabled Soldiers ; 13,000 00 
 
 Appropriation for New Shop at State Prison 6,896 04 
 
 Gettysburg Monuments... 3,300 00 
 
 Monmouth Battle Monument 3,164 29 
 
 New Orleans Exposition 820 55 
 
 Obsequies of General Grant 678 99 
 
 $178,104 82 
 
 61 S H 
 
962 INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 
 
 1887. 
 
 Appropriation for New Capitol $105,698 30- 
 
 Public Debt 90,000 00 
 
 Special AppropriatioQ to Home for Disabled Soldiers 
 
 for new building 29,231 44 
 
 Special Appropriation to Reform- School for Boys 15,000 00- 
 
 Balaneh of Special Appropriation to Morris Plains 
 
 Asylum for sewerage 7,500 OO 
 
 New Orleans Exposition 1,454 03 
 
 Gettysburg Battle Monuments 1,150 00 
 
 Expenses of Centennial Ceremonies at Philadelphia.... 1,125 11 
 
 $251,158 88 
 1888. 
 
 Public Debt $90,000 OO 
 
 Appropriation for State Capitol 89,940 06 
 
 Special Appropriation to Home for Disabled Soldiers... 82,768 56 
 
 Special Appropriation to Trenton Asylum 60,000 00 
 
 Gettysburg Battle Monuments 23,494 22 
 
 Purchase and Equipment of Home for Feeble Minded 
 
 Women at Vineland 12,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Reform School for Boys 10,000 00 
 
 Reimbursement of Jos. T. Crowell 4,817 67 
 
 Centennial Ceremonies at Philadelphia 3,789 62 
 
 Expenses attending purchase of Camp Ground 1,445 98 
 
 $378,256 11 
 1889. 
 
 Public Debt $90,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Home for Disabled Soldiers.. 27,186 96 
 
 Rebuilding State Capitol 26,156 02 
 
 Special Appropriation to Trenton Asylum 20,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Morristown Asylum 12,000 00 
 
 Dedication of Gettysburg Battle Monuments 9,549 89 
 
 Balance of Appropriation to purchase Statutes of Stock- 
 ton and Kearny 8,157 50 
 
 Celebration of Washington Inaugural Centennial at 
 
 New York 4^697 25 
 
 State Laboratory for Agricultural Experiment Station, 4,632 46 
 
 $202,380 08 
 1890. 
 
 Public Debt $90,000 00 
 
 Loaas to Sinking Fund 37 339 00 
 
INCREASE OP STATE EXPENDITURES. 963 
 
 Services of Arbitrator and Counsel in abitration of the 
 claim of the State against the Morris and Essex 
 
 R. R. Co $23,652 10 
 
 Rebuilding State Capitol 28,302 93 
 
 Special Appropriation to Home for Disabled Soldiers.. 19,729 15 
 
 Special Appropriation to Morristown Asylum 18,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Reform School for Boys 6,000 00 
 
 $218,073 18 
 
 1891. 
 
 Rebuilding Assembly Chamber $92,558 44 
 
 Public Debt ;..., 90,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation for purchase of Camp Ground... 64,585 27 
 
 Loans to Sinking Fund 29,357 00 
 
 Alterations and Additions to State House 25,926 45 
 
 State Capitol 24,920 79 
 
 Special Appropriation to Trenton Asylum 20,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Home for Disabled Soldiers.. 14,000 00 
 Special Appropriation to Agricultural Experiment 
 
 Station 8,8C0 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Agricultural Experiment 
 
 Station 5,.5P0 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Home for Disabled Soldiers... 3,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Gettysburg Monuments 900 00 
 
 Special Appropriation for Sherman Obsequies 621 70 
 
 $380,169 65 
 
 1892. 
 
 Rebuilding Assembly Chamber $120,086 46 
 
 Public Debt 52,600 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Industrial School for Girls.... 24,984 95 
 
 State Capitol (new part) 17,675 29 
 
 Alterations and Additions to State House 13,832 09 
 
 Special Appropriation to Home for Feeble Minded 
 
 Women at Vineland , 12,000 00 
 
 Electric Lighting 11,529 35 
 
 Special Appropriation to World's Fair Commission 8,088 50 
 
 Special Appropriation to Home for Disabled Soldiers.. 6,000 00 
 Special Appropriation to Reform School for Manual 
 
 Training 5,000 00 
 
 $271,796 64 
 
964. INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITnEES. 
 
 1893. 
 
 Special Appropriation to World's Fair Commission $114,911 50 
 
 PublicDebt 86,300 00 
 
 Loans to Sinking Fund , 37,951 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to State Laboratory 19,867 54 
 
 Special Appropriation to Trenton Battle Monument... 15,000 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Reform School : 4,224 35 
 
 Rebuilding Assembly Chamber 3,281 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Home for Disabled Soldiers... 3,000 00 
 
 $284,535 39 
 1894. 
 
 Public Debt $92,000 00 
 
 Jersey City Armory 88,847 98 
 
 Loans to Sinking Fund 30,122 00 
 
 Arbitration of Claims of R. S. Johnston... 14,582 74 
 
 State Capitol (new part) 13,435 79 
 
 Special Appropriation to Trenton Battle Monument.... 12,500 00 
 
 Special Appropriation to Industrial School 9,455 75 
 
 Special Appropriation to Reform School 8,775 65 
 
 Special Appropriation to World's Fair Commission 7,000 00 
 
 $276,719 91 
 
 Senator Ketcham — The purpose of this inquiry is to 
 find out just what these expenses are, with a view, if 
 possible, to determine ways by which they can be re- 
 duced. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, I may say, that if they are allowed 
 to increase as they are now increasing, the question of 
 revenues to meet them will speedily present itself to the 
 Legislature. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — For instance, it was shown here 
 last week that we can save $100,000 on the printing of 
 the laws, and here is a Bureau of Statistics started at 
 $2,000, and it now costs $11,000. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think there are a number of these ac- 
 counts which offer a chance for economy if it is desired. 
 Either they will have to be considered by the Legisla- 
 ture or the Legislature will have to begin to devise 
 means to raise more money. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — The natural necessary demands 
 of a growing State are such that we cannot hope to get 
 back to the annual expenses of only a million dollars. 
 
INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 965 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Il^o, it isn't necessary to get back there ; 
 I suppose the expenditares will keep pace with the 
 population. And yet take the Legislative expenses, 
 which is the next table I have in my hand. This 
 Legislature has exactly the same number of members, 
 and, as far as I can see, needs the same number of offi- 
 cers now as in the year 1845, after the new Constitution 
 was adopted. The compensation of the legislators has 
 not changed since 1875, or 20 years, and I don't see why 
 the legislative expenses should be one farthing to-day 
 more than it was in 1875 ; indeed, it should not be so 
 much, because you had very heavy expenditures grow- 
 ing out of the special legislation, much of which is now 
 done away with. But the legislative expenses have in- 
 creased. In 1875 the legislative expenses were $53,000, 
 and they Bteadily climbed up until they reached their 
 maximum of $125,000 in 1893; last year they were 
 $108,000 ; this year the indication is that they will be 
 less. I may say that they never got beyond eighty-odd 
 thousand dollars until 1890 and 1891 ; they then went 
 speedily up above $100,000; there was a jump of over 
 $20,000; but take the years along about 1880 or 1881 
 and 1882, where they were $70,000. Why shouldn't 
 they be that now ? There is one item of uncertainty ; 
 sometimes your contested election cases add a few thou- 
 sand dollars to the incidental bill, but with that excep- 
 tion, I don't see why they cannot be covered by an 
 annual appropriation of $70,000. 
 
 If the Senators will allow the suggestion, I would say 
 this, that you must pass a law fixing the number and 
 the salary of the employes of the two houses. I recol- 
 lect very well, in 1885, we used to have four pages sit- 
 ting here in the Senate and six in the House, and the 
 work was more effectually done then than now, with 
 twice their number. Why you should have more door- 
 keepers than doors is a thing that has always puzzled 
 me, and why you need more than one Sergeant-at-Arms 
 and a single assistant, is not obvious. Furthermore 
 some of those officers have been over-paid ; to pay 
 Senators $500 to come here for two or three months, 
 and then pay a clerk a big year's salary for staying here 
 a few days, is not right. Put these men all on reasona- 
 ble salaries ; fix them all by law, and when you Senators 
 and members are besought to put on pages, sergeants- 
 
966 INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 
 
 at-arms and clerks, you have simply to answer that the 
 law does not allow any more, the places are all filled ; 
 and you can save $25,000 to $50,000 very easily. 
 
 ANNUAL EXPENDITURES FOR LEGISLATURE 
 
 Total Lef;i8lati7e, including 
 Year. Incidental Bill. Incidental Bill. 
 
 1875 $5,263 32 $53,578 96 
 
 1876 7,572 52 70,551 32 
 
 1877 5,891 50 67,566 36 
 
 1878 13,203 37 74,719 89 
 
 1879 8,195 74 67,849 51 
 
 1880 7,766 92 69,285 21 
 
 1881 7,649 94 70,257 37 
 
 1882 9,685 61 60,084 74 
 
 1883 11,169 22 81,563 36 
 
 1884 6,258 13 74,707 78 
 
 1885 5,995 04 71,584 30 
 
 1886 9,471 16 76,613 04 
 
 1887 12,730 87 87,627 44 
 
 1888 4,652 95 77,889 87 
 
 1889 5,951 04 84,258 25 
 
 1890 7,959 34 88,489 41 
 
 1891 15,027 76 103,883 54 
 
 1892 12,522 04 103,744 04 
 
 1893 16,026 66 125,249 52 
 
 1894 10,503 91 108,791 24 
 
 1895 6,390 78 
 
 Senator Ketcham — I think we ought to remember 
 another thing, that our source of revenue may possibly 
 be cut ofi. During the past few years corporations have 
 been formed in the State of New Jersey in great num- 
 bers and have brought large sums of money here. 
 
 Senator Skirm— Not over -§125,000 or $130,000 a 
 year. 
 
 Mr. Corbin— That has fallen to $65,000 already. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Those trusts, large or small, came 
 from other States because our laws were liberal. Take 
 the State of New York, they have done two things ; 
 first, they have changed their law and made it more 
 liberal, then they have put heavy taxes upon those that 
 were formed outside ; the result of that is to drive the 
 corporations back from New Jersey to New York, and 
 
INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITUEES. 967 
 
 they are going in large numbers. Then in addition to 
 that, a great deal of legislation is aimed at corporations ; 
 a firm may do a business that is not taxed, but the same 
 persons constituting themselves into corporate form, are 
 taxed in every possible way, and men in business who 
 desire to be in corporate form in order that they might 
 leave their business to their families in good shape, are 
 going back to the firm form because they are assessed 
 less and annoyed less ; there are persons in this city of 
 Trenton to-day that are sending out letters to certain 
 corporations in the State asking them to pay certain 
 sums to put a list of directors in this State House, and 
 pay $25 for the privilege ; a firm isn't required to do 
 that; the consequence is that people are getting dis- 
 gusted and giving up the corporate form and going 
 back to the old way. 
 
 Senator Skirm — I don't think that applies to this 
 city, for just as soon as a firm is formed they are taxed 
 for pretty near what they are worth, and take a corpor- 
 ation, they will find some way to evade the law, and 
 look over the corporations of this city and this State, 
 and you will find that they pay a great deal less than 
 the individual. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — I am speaking of the outside cor- 
 porations in other States; I have no doubt that is true 
 with respect to corporations. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think what Senator Ketcham has said 
 is partly confirmed by the experience of this State al- 
 ready ; the income from miscellaneous corporations 
 through the office of the Secretary of State has fallen 
 from $130,000 to $65,000. The larger part of the in- 
 come is through the State Board of Assessors where we 
 have received something like half a million dollars a 
 year through these same corporations ; they will also 
 decline with the decline of the other, and undoubtedly 
 the revenues are shrinking from that sourse; of course 
 vre all hope for a revival. Among the expenses of the 
 Legislature is a column called the "Incidental Bill." 
 The Incidental Bill is one that has varied greatly ; it 
 used to be from $4,000 to $7,000 a year ; never as much 
 as $7,000 unless there was an election contest. During 
 the years 1890 to 189.^ it enormously increased and got 
 up as high as $16,000; in the year 1894 it fell to $10,- 
 
968 INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 
 
 000, and this year thus far your incidental bill is only 
 $6,300, which is back to its normal condition. 
 
 The next table I have is the list of court expenses for 
 ! the past 20 years ; it has increased from $65,000 to 
 I $171,000; that is almost wholly made up of salaries, 
 I and if our judges are to continue to draw their present 
 I salaries, of course cannot be materially reduced ; the 
 fee system having been abolished so far as they are con- 
 1 cerned, and the number of judges in the court of Chan- 
 cery and Supreme Court having been increased, and 
 their salaries having been increased, you will have to 
 estimate on a matter of $170,000 a year for the judiciary 
 department of the government. 
 
 COURT EXPENSES FOR TWENTY TEAKS. 
 
 Fiscal year ending 
 
 October Slst. Amount. 
 
 1875 $65,659 90 
 
 1876 72,968 GO 
 
 1877 71,955 00 
 
 1878 80,591 02 
 
 1879 79,.397 51 
 
 1880 82,684 33 
 
 1881 106,822 74 
 
 1882 115,510 75 
 
 1883 119,163 53 
 
 1884 114,277 38 
 
 1885 116,109 84 
 
 1886 124,928 51 
 
 1887 124,581 91 
 
 1888 143,299 10 
 
 1889 146,938 06 
 
 1890 151,501 03 
 
 1891 154,153 44 
 
 1892 154,249 51 
 
 1893 169,332 42 
 
 1894 171,826 51 
 
 I have here the statement of the cost of the militia, which 
 I put in evidence this morning; these are the items charged 
 strictly to the militia. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Do I understand that the expenses of 
 the Quartermaster-General are not included in that ? 
 
INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 969 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Their offices and their clerks' salaries are 
 not there ; they are under the head of State officers ? 
 
 Senator Skirm — They are two State officers and they are 
 apparently the most rediculously under-paid officers of the 
 State. The Adjutant-General and Quartermaster-General 
 are receiving a salary of $1,200 a year; they both happen 
 to be gentlemen of means, otherwise they couldn't fill the 
 position ; and all the expenses of their offices are very lim- 
 ited, the stenographer in the Adjutant-General's office gets 
 $65 a month, even the clerks are underpaid ; it seems to me 
 the expenses of those two departments are way down. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I quite agree with what the Senator has 
 said ; there are probably no two more efficient officers in the 
 State; take the Adjutant-General, who has been here nearly 
 thirty years, a more faithful and efficient officer does not 
 hold office than he. 
 
 Senator Daly — And Gen. Donnelly. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes; and here we are paying salaries of 
 $2,500 a year to men in Board after Board ; men who come 
 here once a week, good enough men, too, no doubt. There's 
 your State Board of Assessors, $2,500 each, and State Board 
 of Taxation, $2,500 each. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Why shouldn't they be in one ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I think they should. Now with all due 
 respect it can hardly be said that the gentleman now on the 
 stand is entitled to more than Gen. Stryker and yet he draws 
 $2,500. There is a very long list of $2,500 men whose 
 services are not to be compared with those of these two 
 officers. There is an inequality about it which might be 
 corrected. 
 
 DAIRY COMMISSIONER. 
 
 I offer next the schedule which is headed " Oleomargarine, 
 Milk, Food and Drugs." It relates to the Dairy Commis- 
 sioner's office, and an important one. 
 
 The office was created by the act of March 22d, 1886, P. 
 L., p. 107 ; it provided that a Dairy Commissioner should 
 be appointed by the State Board of Health, and have a 
 salary of $2,000 a year and hold his office for three years, 
 his salary payable on the warrant of the Comptroller. He 
 was charged with the enforcement of that act, which was the 
 oleomargarine act, and authorized to employ agents, chem- 
 ists, counsel, &c. The sixteenth section of the act authorizes 
 
970 INCKEASE or STATE EXPENDIT0EES. 
 
 him to expend $10^000 a year in enforcing the oleomarga- 
 rine act, to be paid by the Treasurer on the warrant of the 
 Comptroller. I may say, that during the first year after 
 his appointment, he actually collected fines and turned them 
 into the treasury to the amount of about $8,500, but those 
 fines have gradually dropped off until they amount to $500 
 or |800 a year ; I think, too, that the punishments have 
 been effective ; I think the law is better observed than it 
 was, and that you will never get the fines back that you did 
 at first when the people had to learn a bitter lesson by pay- 
 ing a fine. A supplement to that act was passed April 22d, 
 1887, being Chapter 150, and by that act the Dairy Com- 
 missioner also had charged upon him the duty ot enforcing 
 the food and drug act, the $10,000 to cover both, l^ow the 
 milk act was passed in 1886, page 97, and the Milk 
 Inspector was appointed at a salary of $800 a year 
 and his expenses and no limit was placed upon the ex- 
 penses of enforcing the milk act. By a supplement, April 
 20th, 1886, the Milk Inspector was discontinued and the 
 Dairy Commissioner charged with his duties ; now he had 
 the expenses unlimited as to the milk act, but the $10,000 
 must include the enforcement of the food and oleo. acts ; 
 that is the condition he is in. From the time this system 
 was set up in 1886 to the present time, he has, of course 
 drawn $2,000 a year salary, and here are expenses in this 
 schedule for enforcing the oleo. and milk act, and the total 
 he has expended in addition to his salary in these last years, 
 about $12,000 per year, or $12,500; in other words, using 
 all of the $10,000 and a couple of thousand more for the 
 three acts, but the duties are really done together ; there is 
 no way of distinguishing strictly between them; his inspec- 
 tors of oleo. can inspect the milk, and I suggest to the Com- 
 mittee, two things, first, to charge the whole thing upon the 
 $10,000, for it can be done ; give him his $2,000 salary, 
 and, perhaps, $10,000 for expenses of it all; and, in the 
 second place, to require a different method cf auditing. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Don't you suppose that the entire 
 list of salaries paid by the State is excessive; couldn't we 
 secure plenty of good faithful servants for salaries of about 
 75 per cent, of what are now paid? 
 
 Senator Skirm — You mean all salaries, from the Gover- 
 nor down ? 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Some we can get a good deal 
 cheaper ; take for instance, without intending to reflect on 
 
INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 971 
 
 him, the Chief of the Bureau of Statistics; isn't $2,000 
 a good salary for what he does, and as a matter of fact can't 
 you get 25 per cent, more for your money now than you 
 could ten years ago or fifteen years ago, the expenses of 
 living are that much less. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I would say that as far as my observation 
 of the salary list goes some of the most faithful and useful 
 officers we have are underpaid, and the high salaries, the 
 salaries that are really wasteful, are paid to people who have 
 practically very little to do; they need entire readjustment. 
 Take for example this matter of State Board of Assessors, 
 the first year or two they had an enormous amount of work 
 to do and $2,500 was not an overpayment, and since that 
 their work is a matter of revision from year to year. I 
 think the suggestion you have made is perhaps a good one ; 
 I see there are a good many boards that could be gone 
 through where reductions could be made. Now, as to the 
 Dairy Commissioner, I don't suggest anything wrong about 
 these vouchers, but the same system that prevails is not 
 business like. These employes — chemists, counsel, &c. — it 
 seems to me should be paid directly by the warrant of the 
 State, then the Treasurer's printed book will show where 
 this money has gone ; as it is now, it is paid monthly or 
 quarterly to the Commissioner; it is exceptional in the fi- 
 nances of the State; the Commissioner himself expresses a 
 desire for the change, and he also suggests that his bills be 
 audited by the State Board of Health who appoint him, and 
 then have them put in to the Comptroller and paid. These 
 bills are made out with a great deal of detail and particu- 
 larity, but the system is wrong. 
 
 Senator Daly — Don't you think there is a good deal done 
 by some of these State boards that might be done by muni- 
 cipalities, thus relieving the State from this expense ; I mean, 
 take for instance the health matter ; they have Local Health 
 Boards, and we have a State Board of Health ; that is an 
 unnecessary expense. 
 
 Senator Skirm — But you need a State Board. 
 
 Senator Daly — But then this dairy business, inspecting 
 of milk and oleomargarine, that might be controlled by local 
 Boards of Health, as well as the State. 
 
 Mr. Corbin —I am not sure about that ; I think it is 
 hardly worth while for one county in the State to set up a 
 bureau for that business. 
 
972 INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITUBES. 
 
 Senator Daly — One general law could regulate the duties. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Here is a bureau that has been set up and 
 my observation is that it has been effective ; there were 
 times when the abuses from the importation of milk into 
 Camden, Jersey City and Hoboken, and coming across the 
 State on their way to Philadelphia and New York, were 
 very great, and this Board were vigorous in their prosecu- 
 tion — taught the fraud-doers a lesson, and I think there is a 
 very great improvement in that respect. That work is bet- 
 ter done by an independent State Board, who can direct 
 their efforts where they are needed and can compass the 
 whole State. 
 
 Olio., Milk, Food and Drugs Laws. 
 Expenditures oj the Dairy Commissioner. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Fines turned 
 
 
 
 
 Oleo., Food 
 
 
 
 
 
 into 
 
 Year, 
 
 Salary 
 
 
 and Drugs. 
 
 Milk. 
 
 
 Total 
 
 
 Treasury. 
 
 1886 
 
 $1,000 00 
 
 $2,450 93 
 
 $1,818 
 
 05 
 
 $5,668 
 
 98 
 
 $925 
 
 1887 
 
 2,000 
 
 00 
 
 9,133 
 
 15 
 
 
 
 11,133 
 
 15 
 
 8,116 
 
 1888 
 
 2,000 00 
 
 9,525 
 
 37 
 
 380 44 
 
 11,905 
 
 84 
 
 2,200 
 
 1889 
 
 2,000 
 
 00 
 
 7,437 
 
 02 
 
 2,669 
 
 27 
 
 12,106 
 
 29 
 
 1,000 
 
 1890 
 
 1,999 
 
 99 
 
 6,220 
 
 42 
 
 2,961 
 
 32 
 
 11,181 
 
 73 
 
 1,650 
 
 1891 
 
 2,136 
 
 96 
 
 4,910 
 
 83 
 
 4,865 
 
 62 
 
 11,913 
 
 41 
 
 2,000 
 
 1892 
 
 2,000 
 
 00 
 
 7,501 
 
 33 
 
 3,420 08 
 
 11,921 
 
 41 
 
 850 
 
 1893 
 
 2,000 00 
 
 6,564 
 
 07 
 
 4,056 
 
 93 
 
 12,621 
 
 00 
 
 2090 
 
 1894 
 
 2,000 
 
 00 
 
 5,365 
 
 16 
 
 5,087 
 
 68 
 
 12,452 
 
 84 
 
 850 
 
 I have brought here and put upon the desk, as a slight 
 object-lesson for the Committee, the book of documents for 
 the year 1894. The law, previous to 1883, said that the 
 documents which were to be put into the book of docu- 
 ments should be bound in one volume. In 1883 an act was 
 passed saying that hereafter it should be bound in two vol- 
 umes. You have a violation of the law before you ; it is 
 five volumes of some two thousand pages each. It is by a 
 lack of direction, a lack of supervision, that this rubbish has 
 grown to that extent. Now, in that chaff there are a good 
 many kernels of wheat, but the chaff is so great that few 
 people can find the wheat ; and if you can, by some method, 
 appoint some censor or censors who can take these reports 
 and do just what the law of 1883 says shall be done, and 
 that is to put into the book of documents only such as are 
 of sufficient importance to warrant it, you can make a book 
 of documents to which some of us will be willing to give 
 
INCREASE or STATE EXPENDITURES. 973 
 
 shelf-room, and which will really have value. In the pile 
 which you see there, which I suppose is about a bushel in 
 cubic contents, is the State Geological Report, the State 
 Board of Health Report, and the State Treasurer's Report. 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — Why not wipe it out altogether; 
 they are all in separate forms ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — There is a system now of exchanges between 
 the different States of these documents, and between the 
 United States Government and the States, and between the 
 principal libraries of the States, and it seems to me that — 
 
 Chairman Voorhees — You don't mean to say that New 
 Jersey sends all that lot of rubbish to other States and 
 libraries ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — We do. 
 
 Senator Daly — I suppose that is intended to show the 
 amount of business we do. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Now, you will observe that I am appealing 
 to you from an entirely different standpoint than that of ex- 
 pense; if this printing could be properly supervised, and 
 some persons with mental capacity could take the parts of 
 this which are valuable and condense them into a proper 
 volume, it would really have far more value. 
 
 The act of 1883 speaks of the Joint Committee 
 of the two Houses designating what shall go into 
 the Book of Documents and they do, in fact, get 
 together and designate ; I suggest that some new form of 
 committee, perhaps, may be created ; I don't know as that 
 is feasible, but suppose that the president of the College of 
 New Jersey, the president of the Agricultural College and 
 Rutgers and some member of the State Government should 
 be appointed as a committee, with compensation, to take 
 these documents and determine, before they are printed, 
 what shall bo printed, would not the result be better ? 
 Perhaps it isn't necessary to go to such a distinguished gen- 
 tleman, but, with ail due respect to those who sit here, the 
 Legislative Committee does not seem to have been much of 
 a success as a winnower ; I think the committee should be 
 created in some other way. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — When this committee met last year I 
 happened to be a member of it, and the Governor, I think, 
 acted as chairman, and the statement was made that much 
 of that work was ordered by statute. I remember going 
 around the cellars here last season and finding out this 
 great mass of waste material, and I spoke of that fact,^ and 
 
974 INCEEASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 
 
 the vote was to cut down about $15,000 worth of the print- 
 ing this last year, but the balance was understood to be a 
 subject of statute, and it was impossible, it was there said, 
 for us to change it ; that we must have legislation before we 
 could cut it any further. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Why didn't you cut down the appropria- 
 tion ? 
 
 Senator Ketcham — "We did cut it down $15,000 last year, 
 all we could. 
 ~ Senator Daly — Why didn't you report to the Senate ? 
 
 Senator Ketcham — The balance was said to be a subject 
 of statute. 
 
 Senator Skirm — Is this a subject of statute ? That was 
 done certainly under your direction. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — I would like to ask Mr. Corbin if the 
 statutes do order any of this printing to be done ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — So far as the Book of Documents is con- 
 cerned, the act of 1883 says that it shall be put in two 
 volumes. 
 
 Senator Daly — This is a great time to ask that, after you 
 have incurred the expense. 
 
 Mr. Corbin — The act of 1883 says that only such docu- 
 ments shall be printed therein as shall be directed by the 
 Legislature ; but that legislative duty has been performed 
 by the Committee. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Then there should be a legislative 
 enactment to cover it ? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Skirm — They have a committee for that purpose, 
 and the Printing Committee certainly should direct this. 
 
 Senator Ketcham — Then the Joint Committee on Print- 
 ing, as 1 understand you, as the result of this inquiry, can, 
 when they meet this summer, cut this all off? 
 
 Mr. Corbin — I don't know why not. But the law does 
 contemplate that portions of it shall be printed ; for instance, 
 the Treasurer's report undoubtedly should be printed, and 
 many others ; but it is the winnowing that I had reference 
 to, these tables, &c. This tabular work is a thing that the 
 Committee, in the exercise of its judgment, should have 
 dealt with ; there is no end to them ; and I want to call 
 the Committee's attention to another thing ; if you will read 
 those five volumes through some afternoon, you will find 
 hundreds of pages, if not thousands of pages of the statutes 
 of New Jersey reprinted year after year ; the Dairy Com- 
 
INCREASE OF STATE EXPENDITURES. 975 
 
 missioner prints all the laws relating to him, and the Statis- 
 tics Commissioner prints all the laws relating to him. 
 
 f;j' Now, there is no sort of warrant of law for printing statutes 
 
 that way at all. It would be perfectly proper, for conveni- 
 ence, to have a list of the acts on the back page of their 
 books, but to print all those laws over and over again is 
 
 [ ^^ an abuse, and the mere elimination of those would save a 
 
 good deal expense. There are in those books newspaper 
 
 2 clippings of the doings of all sorts of people you never 
 
 heard of, and rubbish of every possible style dealt up in 
 
 I every possible method, and the State of New Jersey is 
 
 printing it. 
 
 Adjourned to meet at the call of the Chairman. 
 
Benjamin F. Lee, Clerk New Jersey Supreme Court. 
 Gross Amount of Fees Received by Clerk in the Several Years. 
 
 Clerk's Gross Fees 
 by Years. 
 
 1872 1299 18 
 
 1873 21,273 05 
 
 1874 26,822 19 
 
 1875 34,544 69 
 
 1876 34,787 97 
 
 1877 32,028 27 
 
 1878 31,971 99 
 
 1879 28,210 48 
 
 1880 21,389 75 
 
 1881 27,368 68 
 
 1882 24,298 88 
 
 1883 24,947 53 
 
 1884 24,969 36 
 
 1885 23,957 05 
 
 1886 25,711 91 
 
 1887 35,772 06 
 
 1888 30,847 88 
 
 1889 37,060 24 
 
 1890 42,054 00 
 
 1891 34,438 00 
 
 1892 37,370 00 
 
 1893 34,605 00 
 
 1894 46,004 00 
 
 (For Judicial fees returned and paid to State, see page 930. For tlie returns 
 made by him to the State as fees received to his own use, page 933.) 
 
 (977) 
 
 62 SH 
 
INDEX. 
 
 A. 
 
 Page 
 
 Adams, Carl F 865 
 
 Advertising 492, 556 
 
 Arbitration, Records of State Board 1 438 
 
 Armstrong, S. S 486, 490 
 
 Assessors, State Board goi 
 
 B. 
 
 Bank deposits , 562 
 
 Barber, Bobert L 481 
 
 Barlow, John 17 
 
 Barkalow, William A 690 
 
 Bateman, Charles H 901 
 
 Bechtel, Charles 494, 897, 906 
 
 Benjjett, Henry J 325 
 
 Berod, L. A. Arvin 330 
 
 Betts, J. Brognard 602 
 
 Bonnel), M. John 213, 489, 916 
 
 Booz, Henry N 147 
 
 Boyd, Thomas E 176 
 
 Bussman, Irwin T .^ 554 
 
 O. 
 
 Campbell, Benjamin 639 
 
 Chew, Sinnickson 613,676 
 
 Clerical Services, table of cost 14 
 
 Colville.J. B 309 
 
 Comptroller, act creating ofSce,&c - 5 
 
 Connell, John.. 308 
 
 County Clerks 469 
 
 D. 
 
 D'Arcy, William 179, 235, 269, 285 
 
 Davis, John 589 
 
 Deposits of State Moneys 562 
 
 Dickinson, Samuel 37 
 
 Dickinson, Samuel M 145 
 
 Doran, Alfred 596 
 
 Doyle, Patrick F , 412, 430 
 
 E. 
 
 Electric Lighting 864 
 
 Everett, B. F 240 
 
 Executive Expenses 312 
 
980 INDEX. 
 
 F. 
 
 Page. 
 
 Fieg, Frederick 552 
 
 Fisher, G. J 451 
 
 Fitzgeorge, Edward 848, 885 
 
 Flagpole, contract, cost, etc 14, 15 
 
 Ford, Bernard J., his bonds .■ 13 
 
 Fox, Edward D 212, 311, 723, 734, 748 
 
 Fritz, John A = 256 
 
 Fuller, Charles W 734 
 
 Furniture for State House 63, 163 
 
 G. 
 
 Gibbs, Amos 595 
 
 Gray, George R 575 
 
 H. 
 
 Haggerty, Daniel 297 
 
 Havens, A. 476 
 
 Heath, Howard 60 
 
 Heath, Samuel 51. 
 
 Heating and Ventilating 343 
 
 Heinz, Otto H 504, 528 
 
 Heppenheimer, William 0... 739 
 
 Hill, Charles S 467 
 
 Hollingshead, Joseph C 483 
 
 Howell, John B 598 
 
 Hulme, Joseph L 579, 699 
 
 Hurley, Michael 178,232, 246 
 
 I. 
 
 Ingraham, Benjamin F 632 
 
 .Interest on State Moneys 562 
 
 J. 
 
 Joint Resolution of 1846 for care of State House 5 
 
 Judicial Fees 467 
 
 K. 
 
 Kelley, Oliver yj^j 
 
 Kelsey, Henry C 772 
 
 Kinnard, Hugh 315 335 347 
 
 Kranetler, Emil 55]^ 
 
 Kuser, Anthony R , 7Qg 
 
 L. 
 
 LaBarre, George B 752 
 
 Lambert, Asher E 45^ 430_ gag 
 
 Lee, Benjamin F., banker gg7 
 
 Lee^ Benjamin F., Clerk of Supreme Court 929 
 
 Letts, William -170 
 
 Loutrel, Cyrus F ^ gg3 
 
INDEX. 981 
 
 M. 
 
 Page. 
 
 Martin, W. H 444 
 
 Mathie, Charles B 474 
 
 McDonnell, Joseph P 386,421 
 
 McDermitt, Frank M 523 
 
 McKee, Louis H 129 
 
 McDermott, Allan L., as counsel 728,730,732 
 
 as witness 920 
 
 Moylan, James 191, 215 
 
 Mullins, John 69, 101 
 
 Murphy, Eugene 79, 106, 156, 166, 491 
 
 Murphy, John L 678 
 
 N. 
 Naar, Joseph L 814, 871 
 
 O. 
 
 Opinion of Gilchrist, Attorney-General 7 
 
 Opinion of Stockton, Attorney-General 11 
 
 Oyster nSoneys for School Fund 635 
 
 P. 
 
 Pardons and Paroles 722 
 
 Patterson, John H 726,744 
 
 Price, William 27, 37 
 
 Printing Documents 432,453 
 
 Printing, Advertising and Stationery 492, 550, 853 
 
 Promulgation of the Laws 892 
 
 Q. 
 
 Quigley, Howell 627 
 
 • 
 
 R. 
 
 Resolution for appointment of Committee 3 
 
 Resolution of 1846 for care of State House 5 
 
 Reilly, Alexander I ,. 29 
 
 Rickey, Alexander H 13, 724, 749 
 
 Riker, John 26, 44, 67, 306 
 
 Risdon, Henry 697 
 
 Roherson, Lewis D 441, 455, 467 
 
 Robinson, Charles S 543 
 
 Romaine, John W 384, 423 
 
 Roray, Benjamin 655 
 
 S. 
 
 School Fund revenues 635 
 
 Secretary of State 754 
 
 Seymour, James M 240 
 
 Simmerman, Charles 950 
 
 Smith, Samuel A 559 
 
 Spencer, Bird W 699 
 
 Sprecklen, J. F 244 
 
 State Board of Assessors 601 
 
982 INDEX. 
 
 Page. 
 
 State House, care and supplies, provisions concerning 5, 6 
 
 State House, table of expenses 20 years 14 
 
 Stokes, William W 594 
 
 Stryker, William S 141 
 
 Swain, George 576 
 
 Swan, Abram... 21, 239 
 
 T. 
 
 Toflfey, John J 571 
 
 Tomlinson, Samuel 5i86 
 
 Treasury Department 562 
 
 V. 
 
 VanCleef, John T 652 
 
 Vanderveer, J. Warren 481 
 
 VanHouten, Thomas.. 340 
 
 Ventilating 343 
 
 W. 
 
 Waite, Edward P ". 431 
 
 Wells, Jesse : 596 
 
 Wismer, Ferdinand H 714 
 
 Worrell, William W 479 
 
 WrightsoD, James T 479