CORNELL 
 
 UNIVERSITY 
 
 LIBRARY 
 
Cornell University Library 
 E 77.U581I39 1915 
 v.1-2 
 
 Indian appropriation bill 
 
 3 1924 028 632 432 
 
The original of tiiis book is in 
 tine Cornell University Library. 
 
 There are no known copyright restrictions in 
 the United States on the use of the text. 
 
 http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924028632432 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL 
 
 HEARINGS 
 
 BEFORE THE 
 
 COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS 
 UNITED STATES SENATE 
 
 SIXTY-THIRD CONGRESS 
 
 THIRD SESSION 
 
 H. R. 20150 
 
 AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE CURRENT AND CON- 
 TINGENT EXPENSES OF THE BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, 
 FOR FULFILLING TREATY STIPULATIONS WITH VARI- 
 OUS INDIAN TRIBES, AND FOR OTHER PUR- 
 POSES, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 
 ENDING JUNE 30, 1916 
 
 Printed for the use ot the Committee on Indian Affaire 
 
 VOLUME 1 
 
 ^^^PRESENTED TO 
 
 Hartwick Colle 
 
 ^ ^Sfe ONEONTA. N. Y. 
 
 BY 
 K P. KINNEY 
 
 WASHINGTON 
 
 GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFITOE 
 
 191C 
 
COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIES. 
 
 HENRY F. ASHURST, Arizona, Chairman. 
 
 HENRY L. MYERS, Montana. 
 KEY PITTMAN, Nevada. 
 HARRY LANE, Oregon. 
 JOE T. ROBINSON, Arkansas. 
 WILLIAM H. THOMPSON, Kansas. 
 ROBERT L. OWEN, Oklahoma. 
 JAMES HAMILTON LEWIS, Illinois. 
 
 FRANCIS S. WHITE, Alabama. 
 MOSES E. CLAPP, Minnesota. 
 ROBERT M. LA FOLLETTE, Wisconsin. 
 CARROLL S. PAGE, Vermont. 
 ASLE J. GRONNA, North Dakota. 
 CHARLES E. TOWNSEND, Michigan. 
 ALBERT B. FALL, New Mexico. 
 
 M. I. MoKelugon, Clerk 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 SATTJBDAY, JANUARY 16, 1915. 
 
 COJOEITTEE ON InDIAN AfFAIRS, 
 
 United States Senate, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, Eobinson, Ower 
 Clapp, and Page ; also Mr. Edgar B. Meritt, Assistant Commissione 
 of Indian Affairs. 
 
 STATEMENT OF EDGAR B. MERITT, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONE] 
 OF INDIAN AFFAIRS. 
 
 SAN CAELOS IRRIGATION PROJECT. 
 
 The Chairman. We left off at the item of $50,000 for the Sa 
 Carlos irrigation project, and I agreed to try to get some copies of 
 report from the War Department. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is there any contest or any objection noted? 
 
 The Chairman. Oh, no ; there is no contest whatever. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Suppose we pass that for the moment and g 
 on with the bill. We will probably have several other matters t 
 consider. 
 
 The Chairman. We will pass the San Carlos estimate, then. Wa 
 there any other Arizona item out of the bill ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is one item, which reads as follows : 
 
 To enable the Secretary of tlie Interior to Investigate the desirability an 
 feasibility of purchasing the railroad lands within the Navajo Indian Reservi 
 tion in Arizona and New Mexico out of a reimbursable appropriation, for tl 
 use and benefit of the Navajo Indians, and to submit a report thereon to th 
 Congress at the beginning of its next session, which report shall include tb 
 estimated cost of said lands and such other information as may be deeme 
 desirable, $1,000, to be Immediately available. 
 
 We have submitted a justification for that item, and it is printe 
 in the House hearings, beginning with page 129. 
 
 This is an item proposing to appropriate $1,000 for investigating 
 the feasibility and desirability of purchasing the lands of the rail 
 roads within the Navajo Indian Reservation. The railroads now ow: 
 about 300,000 acres of alternating sections of land within the Navaj 
 Indian Reservation. That land has been the subject of consider abl 
 controversy, and as long as the railroads own the alternating sec 
 tions and are permitted to lease these lands the stock necessaril; 
 overruns the Indian lands and the Indians' cattle a,re crowded out. 
 
 •6 
 
4 INDIAN APPSOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lake. Is that happening now? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It has happened in the past, and will happen in the 
 future. The Indians need all of this land. The railroads now have 
 the privilege, under the existing law, of exchanging that land for 
 land of equal value outside of the reservation. That also has caused 
 considerable controversy, as Senator Ashurst well knows. If we 
 could get authority to investigate this matter, we probably could 
 purchase that land out of a reimbursible appropriation at a very rea- 
 sonable figure. That would end all controversy, and enable us 
 better to protect the lands of the Indians that they now have. 
 
 Senator Lane. What is that land worth? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The lands are practically of no value. 
 
 Senator Lane. What would you have to pay for them? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We would not have to pay over $1.25 an acre. There 
 are about 300,000 acres. We simply want authority to make a very 
 careful investigation and report the facts to the next Congress. 
 
 The Chaieiman. Is there any objection to the item of the $1,000 
 authorizing the investigation. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 The Chaiejlan. We are through with the Arizona items except 
 the item of $50,000, with relation to the San Carlos irrigation proj- 
 ect, which we will pass over for the present. 
 
 Califoenia. 
 
 sttppoet and civilization of indians. 
 
 The Chairman. We will now take up California, page 13 of the 
 printed bill. The first item under California is as follows : 
 
 For support and civilization of Indians In California, including pay of 
 employees, $42,000. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, we would like very much to have our 
 estimate on this item, which is -$17,000. There are about 19,000 In- 
 dians in California, and this is a very small appropriation for such 
 a large number of Indians. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How many Indians are there there? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Nineteen thousand. 
 
 Senator Lane. That does not go for either their support or their 
 civilization, does it? 
 
 Mr. Meeeitt. Part of it does. We use a part of another appropri- 
 ation for their education. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The amount carried in this year's bill is 
 $42,000? ^ 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; but the amount appropriated heretofore has 
 been fifty-some odd thousand dollars. 
 
 The Chaieman. What is your estimate? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Forty-seven thousand dollars. We would like to 
 have our estimate. We are embarrassed now because of the very 
 small amount of money that we have available for this purpose 
 
 Senator Lane. That is on account of lack of employees « 
 
 Mr Meeitt The lack of money to supply the Indians with food 
 and clothing during the winter. 
 
 Senator Lane. How many Indians are there? 
 
IJNUIAJST APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Nineteen thousand Indians in California 
 
 Senator Lane. $42,000 would not feed them very long 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. We can also use the relief of distress appropriati 
 in emergency cases, but that appropriation is exhausted. 
 
 The Chairman. The estimate is $47,000. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that it be raised. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there objection to that motion? 
 
 Senator Lane. I will tell you this, that if it is going, as I suppc 
 It is, to the employees, I am against it. If anybody can show i 
 that it IS for the Indians, I will be glad to agree to it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This money, of course, is used partly for the purpc 
 of paying the salaries of employees at the agencies. There are 
 agencies. 
 
 Senator Lane. Where is the justification for that? 
 
 Mr. jMeritt. It is on page 130 of the House hearings. 
 
 Senator Lane. What does it go for f 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is on page 130 of the House hearings. You w 
 notice that we are only using $27,000 for employees. 
 
 Senator Lane. If you, will do anything for the Indians with it, 
 am willing to do it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The California Indians are very deserving, and th 
 have not -received from Congress the appropriations that oth 
 Indians have been given, and these Indians have been somewh 
 neglected. I think it is the duty of Congress to give them mo 
 attention. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Did the House strike out the appropriation f 
 the Sherman Institute? 
 
 ilr. ]Meritt. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I see it is on the next page. That is all rigl 
 
 The Chair3ian. Is there any objection to that item? 
 
 The item vras agreed to. 
 
 INDIAN PUPILS AT SHERMAN INSTITUTE. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on line 24 of the bill, as follow 
 
 For support aud education of 650 Indian pupils at the Slierman Institu 
 Riverside, Cal., including pay of superintendent, $108,125; for general repai 
 and improvements, $6,000 ; in all, $114,125. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, we have a telegram from the supe 
 intendent calling attention to the low amount allowed by the Hou 
 for repairs and improvements. Our estimate was $10,000, and tl 
 House only allowed us $6,000. We would like at least $8,000 f( 
 repairs and improvements for that school. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The conditions at that school last summer 
 year ago were in a mighty good condition and was kept so by tl 
 work of the Indian pupils. The school appeared to be excellent 
 conducted. It seems to me to be doing splendid work. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It ought to be kept jip. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I move that the increase be granted. 
 
 The Chairman. The motion is to change the figure " 6 " to " 8 
 so that the total amount will read $116,125. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
6 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 FORT BIDWELL INDIAN SCHOOL. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For suppoi-t and education of 125 ludian pupils at the Fort Bidwell Indian 
 School. Cal.. including pay of superintendent, $20,500; for general repairs 
 and improvements, $2,000 ; in all, $22,500. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, our estimate for the support of that 
 school was $i!2,100. That is a very low estimate for the support o± 
 a small Indian school, and we would like to have our estimate— that 
 is, $22,100 — for its support. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. And $2,000 for repairs and improvements < 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; making a total of $24,100. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 GREENVILLE INDIAN SCHOOL, CALIFORNIA. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For support and educ;ition of 100 Indian pupils at the Greenville Indian 
 School, California, including pay of superintendent, $18.400 ; for general repairs 
 and improvements, $2,000; in all, $20,400. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They allowed us $1,000 less for repairs, but we will 
 try to get along with that. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 HOMELESS INDIANS IN CALIFORNIA. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, there were two items left out under 
 California. The first reads as follows: 
 
 For the purchase of lands for the homeless Indians in California, including 
 improvements thereon, for the use and occupancy of said Indians, $10,000, to 
 be immediately available and to remain available until expended, said funds 
 to be expended under such regulations and conditions as the Secretary of the 
 Interior may prescribe. 
 
 We have submitted a full justification for this item, and it is 
 printed beginning with page 143 of the House hearings. There are 
 1,568 Indians in California who have not yet been provided with 
 land. It is estimated it will take about $50,000 additional money to 
 buy all of those Indians lands. We would like to have the $10,000 
 item inserted in this bill. 
 
 Senator Lane. Where do you get the land? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We buy the land in California. Of course, the best 
 land has already been taken and we would have to get the land that 
 is most available. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do you establish an agency where you get the 
 land? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we will buy the land at the nearest place 
 where the Indians are now located, but no additional agencies will 
 be established because of the purchase of this land, and no additional 
 employees. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that item? 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 7 
 
 YTTMA ALLOTMENTS. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, there is one other item that was 
 omitted that was allowed in the House. It is a misprint in the bill. 
 The item reads as follows : 
 
 For reclamation and maintenance cliarge on Yuma allotments, $40,000, to be 
 reimbursed from the sale of surplus lands or from other funds tliat may be 
 available, in accordance with the provisions of the act of March 3, 1911 : Pro- 
 vided, That maintenance and operation charges shall not be made against any 
 of sail! allotments prior to completion of the distributing system so as to 
 provide for actual delivery of water to each 40-acre tract of said allotted land, 
 and any such charges heretofore paid upon any other basis shall be adjudged 
 to conform hereto. 
 
 The Chairman of the House Indian Committee requested that the 
 proviso to that item be omitted at the request of the department and 
 the House allowed the request of the chairman, Mr. Stephens, but 
 in printing the bill the whole item was omitted. The House allowed 
 us the item of $iO,000 with the proviso omitted. The discussion of 
 this item will be found on page 1073 of the Congressional Record. 
 
 The Chairman. Was that estimated for? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; that is in our estimates. It is simply a 
 mispj:int. That should have been printed in the bill. The hearings 
 before the House committee will disclose that that statement is true. 
 
 The Chairman. You want the proviso struck off? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; we simply want this language : 
 
 For reclamation and maintenance charge on Yuma allotments, $40,000, to be 
 reimbursed from the sale of surplus lands or from other funds that may be 
 available, in accordance with the provisions of the act of March 3, 1911. 
 
 The matter is justified fully in the House hearings beginning with 
 page 148. 
 
 The Chairman. That will be agreed to in the absence of objection. 
 You will find the item on page 423 of the Book of Estimates, Mr. 
 Clerk. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. He had better get the form from Mr. Meritt. 
 
 The Chairman. The proviso will be stricken out. 
 
 FLORIDA INDIANS. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The House also omitted the item for the Florida 
 Indians. 
 
 The Chairman. That is covered by an amendment of Senator 
 Fletcher that was introduced yesterday, as follows : 
 
 For support and civilization of Seminole Indians in Florida, including the 
 purchase of such lands as the Secretary of the Interior may deem proper, 
 $10,000, of which $3,000 shall be immediately available. 
 
 Senator Page. How many Indians are there? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There are about 400 Indians in southern Florida. 
 That item is justified on page 153 of the House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there objection to that? 
 
 Senator Page. Let us know more about that. Why did the House 
 throw it out ? 
 
8 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They left out a number of support items on points 
 of order because of the fact that there was a fight made in the House 
 over the per capita payments to the Choctaw Indians of Oklahoma. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Did the committee insert this in the bill ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The committee inserted it in the bill; and it was re- 
 ported to the House. 
 
 Senator Robinson. But it went out on a point of order? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It went out on a. point of order, if I remember 
 correctly. 
 
 Senator Page. I see you had an unexpended balance of $8,497.91 
 out of the $10,000 appropriated the year before; and amount ex- 
 pended $3,600. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There was an unexpended balance for the year 
 1914 of $4,897. 
 
 Senator Page. $8,497. 
 
 Mr. ISIeeitt. That is from the previous year, but we are now 
 trying to buy some land for these Indians. We have an option on 
 some land in southern Florida. The Seminole Indians are being 
 gradually crowded out of the Everglades where they have been 
 living for a number of years. The Everglades are being drained 
 and the land is being sold and they are being crowded out of their 
 former hunting and fishing grounds. It is necessary to give'them 
 some help. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 Idaho, 
 roet hall eeseevatiox. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For support and civilization of Indians on the Fort Hall Ileservatiou in 
 Idaho, including pay of employees, $30,000. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That item is justified on page 155 of the House 
 hearings. 
 
 Senator Page. And the House allowed it? 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 FOET HALL lEEIGATION SYSTEM. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For improvement and maintenance and operation of the 'Fort Hall irriga- 
 tion system, $25,000, reimbursable to the United States out of any funds of the 
 Indians occupying the Fort Hall Reservation now or hereafter available. 
 
 Senator Lane. Are the Indians getting the full benefit of that, 
 or are the white people? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. As the project was originally constructed, the white 
 people got considerable benefit out of that project. This appropria- 
 tion is necessary to protect the land of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. Are the 12,000 acres ov>'ned by the whites covered 
 by this appropriation? There are 12,000 acres owned by the whites 
 and 38,000 acres owned by the Indians, under this appropriation ap- 
 parently. Now, is it not really true that the 12,000 acres of these 
 whites are paid for by this appropriation ? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 9 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This is a project that was constructed partly for 
 the benefit of the Indians and partly for the benefit of the white 
 people. The project has already been constructed and there has 
 been expended about $800,000 on this project already. 
 
 Senator Lane. It is reimbursable, is it? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is reimbursable; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not see why any of the land owned by the 
 whites should be under an appropriation made in the Indian ap- 
 propriation bill. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We collect maintenance from the whites. 
 
 Senator Lane. You collect that? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We collect the maintenance charges from the white 
 landowners. 
 
 Senator Lane. Well, this is for maintenance, is it not? 
 
 Ml-. Meeitt. This appropriation is for improvement, mainte- 
 nance, and operation. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is that credited back into the fund? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The amount that we collect from the white owners? 
 
 Senator Lane. What goes with it? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It goes back into the_ Treasury of the United States. 
 This amount is used exclusively for the Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. It does not say so. In your analysis of the expendi- 
 tures of the Fort Hall irrigation project you say: 
 
 Fort Hall irrigation project, special, $20,000. 
 
 Census, $1,SC0; estimated cost to complete project, $998,310; estimated area 
 of complete project, acres, 50,000; area subject to irrigation from present 
 works, acres, .'SS.OOO; area allotted to Indians, acres, 38,000; area owned by 
 wWtes, acres, 12,000; cost to date, $806,383.97. 
 
 How many Indians are on there? There are 38,000 acres allotted 
 to them. How many acres are they actually using? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The project is just now about completed, and we are 
 beginning to utilize the lands that have been irrigated. We would 
 like an appropriation to construct laterals to the Indian allotments, 
 but we are not asking for that this year because of the desire to 
 keep the appropriation down as much as possible. It is necessary 
 to make beneficial use of this water very soon or the Indians will 
 hare difficulty in maintaining their water rights- 
 Senator Lane. But they will have nothing to utilize it with — no 
 teams or plows or harrows, will they ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. ^Ve have set aside part of the reimbursable industrial 
 fund so that the Indians maj' make use of this water. 
 
 Senator Page. Out of your general fund ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I see you have about $2,000 more to expend on this 
 project. Is the project one that was wisely entered into ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; that project was entered into a number of 
 years ago, and it was constructed partly for the benefit of the white 
 people. 
 
 Senator Townsenu. Do I understand you to say that you are not 
 going to put any laterals there for the Indians ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We are not going to ask for any appropriation for 
 laterals this year. We are going to do our best to get the Indians 
 help build those laterals out of this appropriation. 
 
 Senator Townsend. And the Indian gets no benefit at all? 
 
10 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. He gets his water rights, of course. , . • 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We will try very hard to get the Indians to Degii 
 building laterals. If vou will allow this increased appropiiatiop 
 we will be very glad indeed to have the money, so that we can begu 
 the construction of the laterals this year. _ +i, 9 
 
 Senator P.\ge. The whites are making beneficial use, are they 5 
 
 Mr. MEraTT. On their part of the land; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lai<e. Yes ; the whites are all right. 
 
 Senator Page. As to this fund that has been expended, has it beei 
 expended and become a reimbursable fund against the Indians 
 lands— the $800,000 to be paid off? -, 4= ^u 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is a reimbursible fund against the land o± tiu 
 Indians, as well as the whites. 
 
 Senator Lane. But the white's lands are those which they ac 
 quired from the Indians, are they not— they a)-e not outside? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They are on the ceded part of the reservation. 
 
 Senator Lane. On a part of the reservation? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. I might say. Senator, that if this were 1 
 new project we would not consider it at all on the basis on whicl 
 it was constructed, but the money had already been expended prio 
 to our time, luid it is now necessary that we construct and keep u] 
 these laterals and maintain the project. 
 
 Senator Lane. I know, Mr. Meritt, but what I think about is this 
 Here is money that has been expended and has beeen applied princi 
 pally to the benefit of the whites, and nov/ vre are appropriatinj 
 money to complete the project — finish it up, and it is principally fo 
 the whites, or will be. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We will lose the money that has already been ex 
 pended unless we continue to maintain the project. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you say that there is no way in which the In 
 dians' rights there can be protected; that is, after you have takei 
 their money to provide for this irrigation project, that, as the la's 
 now stands, the benefits of this project must be taken away unles 
 we appropriate more money here? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This appropriation of $25,900 will go exclusively fo 
 the benefit of the Indian lands. None of this money will go to th 
 white lands. It is necessary that we make beneficial use of this wate 
 within a certain time — by the year 1918, I believe that is the Stat 
 law — or else the Indians will be in danger of losing their wate 
 rights. It is one of the real difficult problems that Ave now have be 
 fore us in the Indian Ser^.ice to get the Indians to farm their lane 
 We are bending every effort to that end at this time. We have s( 
 aside part of this reimbursible appropriation to the Fort Hall Kes 
 ervation and we hope this year to get these Indians to start in farn 
 ing their allotments. We have recently placed a nevv- superintendei 
 in charge of that reservation, and we have put it up to him ver 
 strongly to get these Indians to go to work this year — not wait unt 
 next year, but this year, and we v^'ill use part of this money for coi 
 structing laterals to the Indian lands and will use part of the rein 
 bur.sible fund in getting the Indians started on their farms. It 
 absolutely necessary that we do some quick work on this reservatic 
 for the next two or three years or else the Indians will be in dang( 
 of losing their water rights. 
 
IJNUIAJM APPKOPKIATION BILL. J 
 
 Senator Lane. You will have to build them houses and get the: 
 harrows and plows and other things in order to get them ther 
 They now live aAvay from it in other parts of the reservation, do the 
 not ? They are not occupying this land as their homes ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They are living on the reservation; they move ba( 
 and forth. Some of them live along the river in the wintertime : 
 tents and feed their cattle along the marshes, and go out on the 
 allotments in the springtime. The Indians on that reservation a: 
 doing some farming at this time. They are farming about 6,0( 
 acres. There are about 30,000 acres that should be placed undi 
 cultivation during the next few years. I might say^ 
 
 Senator Laak. Why could you not, as agent and trustee ac 
 guardian for the Indians, go out thei'e with big steam plows ar 
 throw that under cultivation on behalf of the Indians ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have now a big steam plow on this reservatio; 
 and we have plowed nearly 5,000 acres of land on that i-eservation f( 
 the Indians. We are working hard in connection with these irrigi 
 tion matters. I believe there was passed over a few days ago a pri 
 posed item of legislation to lease irrigable lands for a period of ] 
 years. We find it difficult to get lessees to go on raw irrigable lari 
 under short-term leases. I might say if we can get the $600,000 r 
 imbursible appropriation, which this committee has allowed, an 
 legislation for leasing irrigable land for a period of 10 years, I thir 
 there will be no question about the department getting this land undi 
 cultivation within the required time, and we can save the water righ 
 of these Indians. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 BANNOCKS IN IDAHO. 
 
 The next item is as follows : 
 
 For fulfilling treaty stipulations with the Bannocks in Idaho: For pay 
 physician, teacher, carpenter, miller, engineer, farmer, and blacksmith (artic 
 10, treaty of July 3, 18CS), $5,000. 
 
 Mr. ]\Ieritt. Mr. Chairman, that is a treaty item, and is justifit 
 on page 157 of the hearings. 
 The CHA1R3IAN. Is that in accordance with the estimate? 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 I COEUE d'aLENES IN IDAHO. 
 
 I 
 
 The next item is as follows: 
 
 For the Coeur d'Alenes, in Idaho : For pay of blacksmith, carpenter, ai 
 physician, and purchase of medicines (article 11, agreement ratified March 
 1891), $3,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, that is in accordance with our esl 
 mate, and is justified on page 157 of the House hearing. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
12 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 rOET LAPWAI SANATORIUM. 
 
 Mr, Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, the House omitted one item that 
 we estimated for, which reads as follows: 
 
 For maintenance of the sanatorium at Fort Lapwai, Idaho, for incidental 
 and all other expenses for its proper conduct and management, including pay 
 of employees, repairs, improvements, and for necessary expense of transport- 
 ing Indians suffering with tuberculosis and trachoma to and from said sana- 
 torium, $40,000. 
 
 We have justified that on page 158 of the House hearings, and 
 we would like to have it incorporated in the bill. 
 
 The Chaieman. That is the sanatorium at Fort Lapwai? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. You have been there, Senator Townsend, have you 
 not? 
 
 Senator Townsend. No; I do not think so. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is a splendid school, and we are doing good work 
 for the Indian children afflicted with tuberculosis. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 sac a:-;d rox sanatoeium, toledo, iowa. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The House also left out the item for the support 
 of the Sac and Fox Sanatorium. 
 
 The Chaieman. Is that estimated for? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That was estimated for. It is as follows: 
 
 Sec. 6. For maiutenance of the sauntorium at Sac and Fox Agency, Iowa, 
 for incidental and all other expenses for its proper conduct and management, 
 including pay of employees, repairs, improvements, and for necessary expense 
 of transporting Indians suffering with tuberculosis and trachoma to and 
 from said sanatorium, $25,000. 
 
 We have justified that in the House hearings, beginning on page 
 159. We would like to have the item inserted in the bill. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That institution is run now, is it? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; both sanatoriums are being run at this 
 time, and without this appropriation we will not be able to con- 
 tinue them. 
 
 The Chaieman. The item of $25,000 will be inserted in accord- 
 ance with the estimate without objection. 
 
 There was no objection. 
 
 Kansas. 
 
 HASKELL institute. 
 
 The next item was as follows: 
 
 Sec. 5. For support and education of 750 Indian pupils at the Indian 
 school, Haskell Institute, Lawrence, Kans., and for pay of superintendent, 
 $127,750; for general repairs and improvements, $10,000; in all, $137,750. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The House reduced our repair and improvement fund 
 from $14,000 to $10,000, but we will be satisfied with the appropria- 
 tion as allowed by the House. That item is justified on pace 161 of 
 the House hearings. "^ 
 
 The Chair JiAN. It will be $4,000 less than the estimate? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 13 
 
 INDIAN SCHOOL, KICKAPOO RESERVATION. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For support and education of 80 Indian pupils at the Indian school, Klckapoo 
 Reservation, Kans., including pay of superintendent, $14,860; for general 
 repairs and improvements, $2,000 ; in all, $16,860. 
 
 ]\Ir. Meeitt. The House cut our estimate for repairs and im- 
 provements $500, but we will be satisfied with the amount allowed 
 by the House. The item is justified on page 164 of the House 
 hearings. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 Michigan, 
 indian school, mount pleasant. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 Sec. 6. For support and education of 350 Indian pupils at the Indian school, 
 Mount Pleasant, Mich., and for pay of superintendent, $60,450; for general 
 repairs and improvements, $4,000; in all, $64,450. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, the House reduced our estimate for 
 general repairs and improvements from $6,000 to $4,000, and also 
 eliminated our item for the small girls' building, $14,000, and a 
 dairy barn, $5,000. We will be glad to hare the item for general 
 repairs and improvements increased to $6,000. We will be willing 
 to omit the item for the small girls' building, $14,000, but we would 
 like to have the item for the dairy barn, $5,000. We need a building 
 for the small girls' dormitory, but we can let that go for another 
 year. 
 
 The Chairman. You do want the dairy barn at $5,000; you need 
 that? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 The Chairman. It is increased to $71,450. 
 
 Minnesota. 
 
 INDIAN school, PIPESTONE. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 Sec. 7. For support and education of 225 Indian pupils at the Indian school, 
 Pipestone, Minn., including pay of superintendent, $39,175; for general repairs 
 and improvements, $5,000 ; for septic tank, $5,500 ; in all, $49,675. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, the House reduced our support fund 
 from $39,226 to $39,175; and for repairs and improvements from 
 $10,450 to $5,000. We will try to get along if the Senate will allow 
 us $8,000 for general repairs and improvements instead of the $5,000. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 SCHOOLS FOR THE CHIPPEWAS OF MISSISSIPPI. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For support of a school or schools for the Chippewas of the Mississippi in 
 Minnesota (article 3, treaty of Mar. 19, 1867), $4,000. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
14 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That takes care of the high school that we pro- 
 vided for at Pipestone ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have a report on that that I will be glad to talk 
 to you about. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Very well. 
 
 The Chaikjian. The next paragraph reads as follows : 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the 
 Treasury of the United States, at his discretion, the sum of $185,000, or so much 
 thereof as may be necessary, of the principal sum on deposit to the credit of ■ 
 the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota, arising under section 7 of 
 the net of January 14, 1889, entitled "An act for the relief and civilization of 
 the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota," and to use the same for the 
 purpose of promoting civilization and self-support among the said Indians in 
 manner and for purposes provided for in said act. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That item is in accordance with our estimate, and is 
 justified on page 173 of the House hearings. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it best, Senator Clapp, that you have that with- 
 drawal ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is part of the law of 1889. 
 
 Senator Pace. That that sum shall be withdrawn annually? 
 
 Senator Cl\pp. I think that is the minimum. Last year we with- 
 drew more, did we not, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 ADVANCE TO WHITE EARTH BAND Or CHIPPEWAS. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 TJic Secret;. ry nf the Ulterior is hereby authorized to advance to the executive 
 
 nf'TX' "^ ""' "?'lf ^^''^^' ^^"'^ ^* Chippewa Indians in Minnesota the sum 
 of .«,f,0(i. or f-o much thereof ::s may be necessary, to be expended in the annual 
 
 saTd band" °' "'" """' '° '^ ""'''' '""^ ^^' 1915 out o/tZfunl bet™,gTg to 
 Senator Kobixson. That item we have carried, have we, Senator 
 Senator Clapp. Oh, yes; we have carried it. They have a cele- 
 
 Senator Eobinson. It is all right. I do not care to discuss it. 
 Ine item was agreed to. 
 
 ENROLLMENT OF CHffPEWA ALLOTTEES, WHITE EARTH RESERVATION. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 That the uue.xpendei! balance of the appropriation for "Enrollment of rhin 
 Sv^dl^B '51.^^3 'S^t^TT^l ""'T'""^ coSLTin fhe'^'ac't 
 an^^ confingen? expe.^t Ke^nc^^^^fv ceTortfeTcTyLa^^^^^^^^^^^ 
 reappropriated and made immediately available. ^ ' '^ ^''''^^^ 
 
 be tee'dTh^r'e" ' "' "' °'^'''"" *^ *^^*- ^^^ ^^^^^ -ght to 
 Mr. Meritt. The amount appropriated was $5,000. I would like to 
 have mcorporated after the word "available" this language- "For 
 payment of expenses incurred after June 30, 1914, in mafina th« 
 required enrollment of Chippewas." ' "^^lang the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 15 
 
 The Chairman. That is after the word " available " on line 25, to 
 insert the words " for payment of expenses incurred after June 30, 
 1914, m making the required enrollment of Chippewas." 
 
 Senator Page. How much ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That simply would come out of the unexpended bal- 
 ance. 
 
 Senator Page. That is available for the purposes for \Yhich you 
 propose to expend it ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There have been some obligations incurred, Senator, 
 since the_ first of the fiscal year, and it is necessary that those expendi- 
 tures be paid. 
 
 Senator Pace. Let me understand the matter. There is a sentence 
 here without the^ verb in it. Is it a part of the same sentence ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; it is part of the same sentence — 
 
 is hereby reappropriated iincl maile iiiiiuediately available for payment of 
 expenses ineuried after .June 30, 1914, in mailing the required enrollment of 
 Chippewas. 
 
 Senator Page. That is the purpose for which it is made available, 
 and nothing else ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That is true, Senator. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 Mr. ^Meeitt. Did I make myself clear? It is for the purpose of 
 paying the expenses that ha^e been incurred since the 1st of July, 
 and also for paying expenses during the fiscal year. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Yes; I understood it. 
 
 Senator Page. I could not quite understand it. Did you make a 
 comma after the word " available " — change that period to a comma 
 after that word? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Of course, that would be a comma. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That language is necessary in order to make 
 it available to cover expenses since the expiration of the fiscal year. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. It is to be made avaijable for that purpose only, ■ 
 j'ou say? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. For that purpose only — for the purpose of paying 
 any additional expenses that may be incurred during the present 
 fiscal year. 
 
 Senator Page. Well, if it is reap]Dropriated and made available 
 for this purpose, how do you include the other purpose that j^ou have 
 mentioned ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Of course, the greater includes the lesser. Any 
 expense incurred after June 30, 1914 — as long as those expenses are 
 being made within the limits of the unexpended balance — will be 
 paid out of the unexpended balance. 
 
 Senator Page. It is used in the case of expenses incurred in May, 
 1914; they would be included would they not? 
 
 Senator Clapp. They are already included by the appropriation 
 mat went down to the 30th of June, 1914. Now, excepting that 
 this would be reappropriated, they continued to work after that 
 date, and that work was unauthorized. Now, this continues the 
 unexpended appropriation for the original purpose of the act that 
 went down to June 30, 1914. Now he makes it to include anything 
 after that, which would include whatever was incurred after June 
 30, 1914, and the date of the approval of this act. 
 
16 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not want to cheese-pare about that. It does 
 not strike my grammar exactly. 
 
 The Chairman. The next paragraph reads as follows ; 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior, under such rules and regulatious as he 
 mav prescribe, is hereby authorized to use for or advance to any individual 
 Chippewa Indian in the State of Minnesota entitled to participate in the peima- 
 nent fund of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota who is blind, crippled de- 
 crepit, or helpless from old age, disease, or accident, in the aggregate not to 
 exceed one-fourth of the amount which would now be coming to said Indian 
 under a pro rata distribution of said permanent fund: Provided. That any 
 money received hereunder bv any member of said tribe or used for his or her 
 benefit shall be deducted from the share of said member m the permanent 
 fund of the said Chippewa Indians in Minnesota to which he or she would be 
 entitled. 
 
 Senator Page. Is that the matter that you had up under discus- 
 sion last year, Senator Clapp? 
 
 Senator ClaVp. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This item is justified on page 179 of the House hear- 
 ings. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think, Mr. Meritt, that it ought not to be limited 
 to the decrepit and helpless. I think you ought to have authority, 
 within limitations that can not possibly ever exceed their share, to 
 advance money to these Indians to develop their farms and buy 
 horses or anything else. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We submitted legislation two years ago, Senator, for 
 that purpose. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I know. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Sufficiently broad to cover all classes of Indians. 
 There was some criticism made of that legislation. The department 
 is in favor of the proposition that you suggest. It should be suf- 
 ficiently broad to cover all classes of Indians. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Here we have in the Treasury of the United States 
 millions of dollars standing to the credit of these Indians 
 
 Senator Page. The Chippewas of Minnesota? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. Som'e of those Indians are inclined to go 
 ahead and advance, and this money is lying there doing no good. 
 It does seem to me that the department ought to have the authority, 
 where they see that an Indian is disposed to do something — ^not to 
 turn it all oyer to him, possibly exceeding his financial pro rata, 
 but within limitations that are absolutely certain not to impinge 
 upon the rights of other Indians — to take some of that money and 
 help that fellow along. It is the only way. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the objection to it? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not understand what the objection to it is. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I will tell you. Senator. The act of 1889, known as 
 the Nelson Act (25 Stat. L., 642), requires the Chippewa fund— 
 except as to certain funds therein prescribed — to be continued in 
 the Treasury for a period of 50 years. That is a specific law on the 
 subject. There is now in the Treasury between $5,000,000 and 
 $6,000,000 to the credit of the Chippewa Indians. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do they propose that it shall lie there for 50 
 years unused? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Unless the Nelson law is changed that will be the 
 case. We have Indians now in the Chippewa country who are abso- 
 lutely in want, and we have no authority of law to relieve their dis- 
 tress because of that legislation. 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL.' 17 
 
 Senator Page. Do they get interest on the fund? 
 Mr. Meritt. They get interest on the fund, and we have authority 
 to expend certain other money for educational purposes. 
 
 Senator Page. Xow, we have the authority for the deaf, dumb, 
 
 and blind ■ 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. We would be glad if the legislation was broadened 
 so as to include all classes. 
 
 Seniit<u' Clapp. I can not see why this money should be left there. 
 The problem of this Government is what to do with these vast sums 
 that have been there, and to see to it that they are not finally squan- 
 dered and wasted. Now, if we can take the Indian under the super- 
 vision of the department, and especially' under the Indian Office, we 
 should get dovrn to this personal equation with the Indian as he is 
 to-day and use a portion of that Indian's money to help him along, 
 help develop him, even though he might lose some of it. It is train- 
 ing him to become the recipient of the larger sum when it becomes 
 due under the treaty. It is just lying there, and the Indian is getting 
 no benefit from it. 
 
 Senator Page. Yes; he is getting interest on the money at 4 per 
 cent a year. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is being doled out. 
 
 Senator Page. That is the best thing you can do with a man if he 
 can not take care of his money. 
 
 Senator Clapp. How long will it take him so that he will be able 
 to take care of his money? I could take your son, as bright as he 
 is, and if I doled out a fund to him year after year until he was 
 45 years of age he would not know how to expend $5 a month 
 judiciously. 
 
 Senator Page. When they passed that law they probably made 
 an investigation a good deal more fully than we have done here. 
 
 Senator Clapp. No ; we did not. _ 
 
 Senator Page. Of course, I do not know. If you give them this 
 money, I imagine it would go very suddenly into the hands of your 
 white neighbors there in Minnesota. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Some of it undoubtedly would. 
 
 Senator Kobixson. May I make the suggestion, or ask tor infor- 
 mation if you have a specific item that you Would offer as an amend- 
 ment for this provision ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I have not it prepared. 
 
 Senator Eobinsox. My suggestion is that we pass the item now, 
 and if you want to submit a specific item we will consider it under 
 a specific proposition. 
 
 Senator Town SEX D. I was wondering, if Senator Clapp s idea weie 
 carried out, when some of those old people got what was their share, 
 what would happen to their descendants; would they still be on the 
 roll and still be entitled to come forward and claim a portion ot this 
 
 ^Mr! Mkritt. No, sir: that is provided for in the legislation here. 
 The proviso reads : 
 
 Pnviiled That any money received hereunder by any member of said ti-ibe 
 or used for his or her benefit shnU be deducted from the share of said member 
 Z "he permanent fund of the said Chippewa Indians in Minnesota to which he 
 or she would be entitled. 
 
 828?!.'? — 15 2 
 
18 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The suggestion of Senator Clapp, I believe, might be covered if 
 Vou would add after the word " accident " in lines 6 and 7, the words 
 " and such pther Indians as the Secretary of the Interior may deem 
 
 ^^sStor Clapp. That would be the idea exactly. Now Senator 
 Page, you say we considered all this. This treaty was m'\^e ^n 1889 
 before we had cleared up the question of mdividualizmg the Indian 
 at all. It was just a blanket provision that this money should 
 remain there for 50 years. We have advanced since then— all ol us 
 in this countrv. We are leading the Indian along to better develop- 
 ment of individuality. Some of them are going to fail; there is no 
 question about that, but that is the only way by which you will ever 
 put the Indian on his feet— taking each one by the hand and guid- 
 ing him along. He will make some mistakes ; he will squander some 
 of his money. But the idea is, under any circumstances, only to 
 advance what would be approximately one-fourth of his share of 
 the present tribal funds, Avhich will increase to some millions of 
 
 dollars. t i • i -j. • 
 
 Now, I am not going to make a fight for it, but I thmk it is a very 
 
 plain proposition. 
 
 The Ci-iAiEMAN. Would the language suggested by Mr. Mentt, to 
 be incorporated, be satisfactory ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Of course. 
 
 The Chaikman. If there is no objection, that language, after the 
 word " accident " on lines 6 and 7, will be inserted ; that is, " such 
 other Indians as the Secretary of the Interior may deem proper." 
 
 Senator Clapp. Now, this is not to go on the floor. It would be 
 a mistake to take it there. If any member of the committee — if 
 Senator Page does not enter heartily into the spirit of it, I do not 
 want to force anything of the kind through the committee by a 
 majority vote. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not say that it is right or wrong. I say you 
 bring up matters of that kind that have been once considered and 
 settled, and I have had sufficient experience here to lead me to believe 
 that if you give an Indian an opportunity to get hold of his money 
 the white man generally gets it ^ery suddenly. 
 
 The Chairman. That is very true, SensTtor. The white men get 
 most of our money. Yfe can not save a cent out of our salai'ies. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Unquestionably, Senator Page, there will be a 
 certain amount of loss and failure in this effort to lead the Indian 
 to get on his own feet. We have got to accept that. The white man 
 has had a similar experience for generations. But what are you 
 going to do with the Indian? Are you going to keep the Indian 
 forever receiving a pittance every month? I would not turn any 
 of this over to an old Indian, but there are young Indians. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. If there are young Indians who can use it to 
 their advantage, I do not see why they should wait 50 years, or 25 
 years, before the balance is paid to them. I confess that I do not 
 see the force in the proposition to withhold it from them. The great 
 trouble, of course, is in the administration of it. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I will say this for the department, that in all the 
 years that I lia^e been here there never has been, I think, as earnest 
 an effort — and I do not say that to ]-ellect on t!ieir predecessors 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 19 
 
 to develop the Indians as there is now. The department to-day is 
 making an effort that never has been made to reach out and look 
 after this Indian and that Indian as an individual and to help him 
 along his way. Considering the Indian has had no experience, all 
 this has had to be done at arm's length through subordinates, and I do 
 think the department is making a wonderful success of it. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, you and I spent three or four weeks once 
 out in the wilds of Wisconsin. Let me ask you this question: Did 
 yoiiv close contact with those Indian agents, through whom all this 
 matter filters, increase your faith in the proposition of placing the 
 funds at the disposal of those Indian agents ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. It did. I saw the Indian agent developing in his 
 mind that relation of parent to child; safeguarding the fund of 
 those Indians, until he incurred the bitter hostility of everybodj' who 
 wanted to get something out of the Indian for nothing. I saw that 
 man put up buildings for the Indians as carefully as you would put 
 them up for a child who had not reached the agfc of discretion. 
 
 Senator Page. Well, they kicked him out, did they not? 
 
 Senator Clapp. They kicked him out, but they are improving the 
 service every day .• they are getting better men. They have this prob- 
 lem on their hands. Now, I would not put this money where the 
 Indiaii could take it ad libitum. I would not give him even all his 
 share; but it does seera to me we ought to give the department the 
 authority, where an Indian manifests a disposition to improve, to 
 give them a little of it, not to exceed one-fourth. 
 
 Senator Eobixson. That is the provision, is it not? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you not have that authority now, Mr. 
 Commissioner ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Xo, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. If that is true and we should adopt this prop- 
 osition here, that would mean a precedent for all the Indians, would 
 it not? I do not know of any reason why it should apply to the 
 Chippewas and not to the others. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have that authority now as to certain classes 
 of Indians, but there is a specific law which applies to the Chip- 
 pewa Indians, and we can not use any of these funds m the Treas- 
 ury, amounting to more than $5,000,000, without this legislation, 
 except for certain school and administrative purposes, as allowed 
 
 by the act. . , , -,1 i ^.i 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not want it put into the bill unless the 
 wisdom of it appeals to the committee. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Suppose we pass it over tor the moment. 
 
 Senator Page. Can you so frame the language that m no case 
 shall any of the Indians, aside from those who are old and decrepit, 
 get more than one-fourth of the amount that is due? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. The language as it is now framed would limit it to 
 the old and decrepit Indians. • i j 
 
 Senator Clapp. It would limit it to one-fourth, if we include 
 the other Indians. If we should broaden it so as to include all 
 Indians, and limit it to one-fourth, the money would be sate- 
 guarded under the direction of the Secretary of the interior. 
 
20 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Page. You need not postpone this matter, Senator Kob- 
 inson, if you think it is wise. . . 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I am impressed that it is a good provision. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I want to know whether it appeals to Senator 
 Townsend. 
 
 Senator Townsead. It would appeal to me, as far as I can see 
 it now. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That is the way.it is with me. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I have not gone into it at all. I do not 
 know what would be involved in the matter. 
 
 The Chairman. We will pass Montana. 
 
 Senator Clapp. We have not got through with Minnesota. 
 
 INDIAN HOSPITAL, FOND DU LAC RESERVATION. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is one item which we wou-ld like to have 
 inserted, and it reads as follows: 
 
 Section 8 of the act approved August 1, 1914, is hereby amended in so far 
 as to permit of the purchase of a site in the city of Cloquet. Minnesota, and 
 the construction thereon of a hospital instead of on the Fond du Lac Reser- 
 vation. 
 
 The last Indian appropriation act authorized the construction of 
 an Indian hospital on the Fond du Lac Eeservation, which is very 
 near the town of Cloquet. We found we could make arrangements 
 with the town of Cloquet so that they will supply us with certain 
 facilities that will very materially increase the benefit of the hospital. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is water and sewage? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Water, sewerage, and light. The site can be pur- 
 chased for approximately $500. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. How far is it from the reservation? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is only a few miles away. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think it is about 2 miles from the edge of the 
 reservation. But let me say that the Fond du Lac Reservation is a 
 very small reservation. The hospital is located there because it is 
 on the east side of the State; there are some three or four small 
 reservations up on the north toward Lake Superior. So it is not 
 important. It was simply to get a locality that Fond du Lac is 
 mentioned. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. You think it ought to be located in the town? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think so. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 RED LAKE RESERVATION. 
 
 Senator Clapp. 1 want to say to the committee that the Eed Lake 
 Reservation has not yet been allotted. The department has under 
 consideration a bill to take certain of the lands of the Eed Lake 
 Reservation that are timbered and apply the Menominee plan, 
 under which there is more or less logging on that land, and this is 
 allotted agricultural land. If that report comes in before we report 
 the bill I am going to ask to have it put in the bill. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 21 
 
 Senator Page. Has the success of the Menominee plan been 
 proven ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think so. I want to say this in regard to the 
 Menominee plan. If you owned a certain amount of pine timber 
 and were going to take the timber off purely as a financial venture 
 you would not pursue the Menominee plan of taking out the older 
 timber ; you would go right through everything down to what would 
 be merchantable. But under the Menominee plan you do reserve 
 the virgin timber, Avhich makes a continuing matter, and you could 
 give employment to the Indians more or less. I am inclined to think 
 that on the Avhole it would be the better of the two plans. 
 
 Senator Page. You will remember when we were at Menominee 
 the Indians were pr(<tcsiing very much against that plan, and say- 
 ing they were being robbed. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Senator Page, there will be a protest here against 
 this plan, but they Avould like very much to have us pass a law to 
 sell the timber. 
 
 jMu>;tana. 
 
 The Chaikmax. We will pass Montana in the absence of Senator 
 Myers. 
 
 Senator Eobi>json. Are we through with Minnesota? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes; I was just stating what I proposed to do. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There is one item in our estimate under Minnesota 
 that was omitted, and which reads as follows : 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the 
 Treasury of the United States, at his discretion, the suru of .f25,(i00, or so much 
 thereof as mtiy be necessary, of the principal sum on deposit to the credit of 
 the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota, arising under section 7 of the 
 act of January 14, 1SS9, entitled "An act for the relief and civilization of the 
 Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota," and to use the same for the pur- 
 pose of constructing, equipping, and maintaining a hospital, to be located on 
 the Leech Lake Reservation, the site to be selected by the Secretary of the 
 Interior, for the use and benefit of the Chippewa Indians in Jlinnesota. 
 
 We have constructed, or there is now in course of construction, 
 hospitals on the Eed Lake, White Earth, and Fond du Lac Eeserva- 
 tions, out of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians. We would 
 like to construct a hospital on Leech Lake, and that would complete 
 hospital facilities for the Chippewas. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What do you think about that, Senator? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I rather think there ought to be a hospital on the 
 Leech Lake Eeservation. I do not Imow how my colleagues in the 
 House feel about it. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This item is justified on page 175 of the House 
 hearings. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Have you taken that up with the House Com- 
 mittee? . „ . T-,.,, 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I have not discussed it with Eepresentative Miller. 
 The Chippewa Indians in that part of the country feel that they 
 ought to' have hospital facilities the same as the others have. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I thinl?: so, too, only I would want to reserve the 
 
 right X -io 
 
 Senator Page. Why did the House members object to it< 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They did not object to it. They simply left it out. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
22 indian appeopeiation bill. 
 
 Nebraska. 
 indian school at genoa. 
 
 The Chaiebian. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For support and education of 375 Indian pupils at the Indian school at 
 at Genoa, Xebr., including pay of superintendent, $64,500 ; for general repairs 
 and improvements, $5,000 ; in all, $69,500. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is considerably below our estimate. We estimated 
 I'or 400 pupils at this school, and a support fund of $68,800. and we 
 also estimated $10,000 for repairs and $3,000 for physician's cottage. 
 We would be satisfied with the House allowance if they will increase 
 the repair fund to $7,000. 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection that will be agreed to. 
 The repair fund will be increased to $7,000. 
 
 Senator Page. That makes $71,500? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Meritt, have you an item raising the price of 
 unappropriated lands? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The Chippewa Indians were at the Indian Office 
 yesterday and we cliscussed that. The amendment has not yet been 
 prepared. 
 
 Senator Clapp. We will want to put that in, reserving the mineral 
 rights on all unappropriated lands. 
 
 Nevada. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For support and civilization of Indians in Nevada, including pay of em- 
 ployees, $18,500. 
 
 For support and education of 250 Indian pupils at the Indian school at 
 Carson City, Nev., including pay of superintendent, $41,700 ; for general repairs 
 and improvements, $5,000; in all, $46,700. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We would like to have the support fund increased 
 from $41,700 to $43,750. 
 
 Senator Page. They cut you from $49,000 to $46,000? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. And you want that restored? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We would like to have the support item restored to 
 $43,750. We will try to get along with the amount allowed for 
 I'epairs. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 New Mexico. 
 
 For support and education of 400 Indian pupils at the Indian school at 
 iilbuquerque, N. Mex., and for pay of superintendent, $68,600; for general re- 
 pairs and Improvements, $5,000; in all, $73,600: Provided, That not to exceed 
 $200 may be expended in the purchase of a fractional acre south of the school 
 farm and adjoining the public road. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The House cut our estimate on this school, but we 
 will try to get along on the amount allowed by the House. 
 The Chairman. Very well. 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
liMUiAiN Ai-rKUjfKlATJ.OJS) BILL. 
 
 Indian School, Santa Fe, New Mexico. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows: 
 
 For STipport and education of 350 Indian pupils at the Indian schoo 
 isauta I'e, A. Mex., :iuil I'oi- ii.;y for superintendent, )pn!),r.riO- f(,r general ret 
 and luiprovements, $5,000; for water supply, $1,600; in all, $66,150. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Our support fund estimate was $63,550, and they 
 it to $a9,5t)0. We would like to have the estimates on that supi 
 fund item. We will try to get along with the amount allowed 
 repairs and improvements. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, that item will be agreed t( 
 Mr. Meritt. The justification for this school is found on p 
 208 of the House hearings. 
 
 Special Attorxey, Pueelo Indians of New Mexico. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows: 
 
 For tbe pay of one special attorney for the Pueblo Indians of New Mexicc 
 be desigu:',ted by the Se;-ntary of tlio Intt-rior, and for necessary traveling 
 penses of said attorney, .'v2,000, or so much thereof as the Secretary of 
 Interior may deem necessary. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is in accordance with our estimate. 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item is agreed to. 
 
 Fulfilling Treaties with Senegas of New York. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 Sec. 14.fFor fu^fillin.^ treaties with Senecas of Now Yorlj : For permar 
 annuity in lieu of interest on stock (act of February 19, 1S31), $6,000. 
 
 Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 Fulfilling Treaties with Six Nations of New York. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For fulfilling treaties with Six Nations of New York : For permanent 
 nuity, in clothing and other useful articles (article 6, treaty of November 
 1794), $4,500. 
 
 That is estimated for? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item is agreed to. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Before you leave New York, I want to mak( 
 suggestion to the committee. This provision for leasing the lii 
 stone of the Tuscaroras of New York we reported favorably, with 
 amendment limiting it to leasing and not sales. It has gone throu 
 the House. Of course, with the condition that was disclosed nij 
 before last, it never will pass the Senate at this session. I just wi 
 to suggest to the committee whether they want to put it on this 1 
 in connection with the New York Indians. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. It would be subject to a point of order. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, that amendment will be 
 serted in the New York item. 
 
24 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Indian School, Cherokee, North Carolina. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For support and education of ISO Indian pupils at tlie Indian school at 
 Cherokee; N. C, including, pay of superintendent, $30,000; for general repairs 
 and improvements, $4,000 ; in all, $34,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We would like to have our estimates on this school. 
 The support fund is estimated for $31,660, and the improvement 
 fund is $4,340, making a total of $36,000, $2,000 more than allowed 
 by the House. Our justification is found on page 220 of the House 
 hearings. We need every dollar we have asked for for that school. 
 
 The Chairman. If there is no objection, the item will be agreed 
 to at the estimate of $36,000. 
 
 We will pass North Dakota, if there is no objection, as Senator 
 Gronna wishes to be present when Ave consider that. We will pass 
 to Oklahoma. 
 
 Oklahoma. 
 
 kiowa, comanche, and apache indians, oklahoma. 
 
 The Chaikman. The next item is as follows: 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the 
 Treasury of the United States, at his discretion, the sum of $25,000, or so much 
 thereof as may be necessary, of the funds on deposit to the credit of the Kiowa, 
 Comanche, and Apache Tribes of Indians in Oklahoma, for the support of the 
 agency and pay of employees maintained for their benefit. 
 
 Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 The next item is as follows: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to with- 
 draw from the Treasury of the United States, at his discretion, the sum of 
 $250,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the funds on deposit to 
 the credit of the Kiowa, Comanche, ;ind Apache Tribes of Indians in Oklahoma, 
 and pay out the same for the benefit of the members of said tribes for their 
 maintenance and support and improvement of their homesteads, in such manner 
 and under such regulations as he may prescribe : Provided, That the Secretary 
 of the Interior shall report to Congress on the first Monday in December, 1916, 
 a detailed statement as to all moneys expended as provided for herein. 
 
 Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 KICKAPOO INDIANS, OKLAHOMA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For support and civilization of the Kickapoo Indians in Oklahoma, including 
 pay of employees, $2,000. 
 
 Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, the House left out four support items 
 for Oklahoma on points of order, because of the fight on the Choctaw 
 per capita payment. 
 
 The Chairman. They were all estimated for? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; I will read them. They are as follows: 
 
 For support and civilization of the Wichitas and affiliated bands who have 
 been collected on the reservations set apart for their use and occupation in 
 Oklahoma, including pay of employees, $3,000. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. '2 
 
 That amount has been allowed in the bill for a number of years. 
 
 For support and civilization of the Cheyennes and Arapahoes who have bei 
 collected on the reservations set apart for their use and occupation in Okl 
 homa, including pay of employees, $35,000. 
 
 That amount has also been allowed for j^ears. 
 
 For support and civilization of the Kansas Indians, Oklahoma, including pi 
 of employees, $1,500. 
 
 That amount has been carried in the Indian bill for a number ( 
 years. 
 
 For support and civilization of the Ponca Indians in Oklahoma and Nebrusk 
 including pay of employees, $8,000. 
 
 That amount has also been carried in the bill. Points of ord- 
 were made on these items. Thej' are support funds and are necessar 
 
 Senator Eobi^sox. Hpw do points of order lie on them? 
 
 Senator Owen. There was a general filibuster conducted again 
 the bill. 
 
 Senator Eobixsox. I understand that, but how does it happen th 
 they are subject to points of order? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. Because they could not find any basic law und 
 which these appropriations weie first authorized. 
 
 The Chairman. If there is no objection, they will be inserted 
 the bill. 
 
 Senator Page. They were agreed to by the House committee? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They were agreed to by the House committee, ai 
 they are estimated for. 
 
 INDIAN SCHOOL, CHILOCCO, OKLA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For support and education of 500 Indian pupils at the Indian school 
 Chilocco, Okla., including pay of superintendent, $86,250; for general repa: 
 and improvements, $6,000 ; in all, $92,250. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Our estimate was $7,000 for repairs and improv 
 ments, but we will try to get along with the amount allowed by t 
 House. The item is justified on page 238 of the House hearings. 
 
 The Chaieman. Without objection, the item is agreed to. 
 
 ETTLEILLING TEEATIES WITH PAWNEES, OKLAHOMA. 
 
 The Chaikman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For fulfilling treaties with Pawnees, Oklahoma : For perpetual annuity 
 be paid in cash to the Pawnees (article 3, agreement of N"^- 3. 1892), $30 0( 
 for support of two manual-labor schools (article 3, treaty of Sept. 24, 185 
 $10 000- for pay of one farmer, two blacksmiths, one miller, one engineer a 
 appSces and two teachers article 4, same treaty), $5,400; for purchase 
 fron and steel and other necessaries for the shops (article 4 ^ame treat; 
 $500 ; for pay of physician and purchase of medicines, $1,200 , m all, $47,100. 
 
 Senator Page. Those are all treaty engagements, are they? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 The Chairman. That is m accordance with the estimates? 
 Mr. Meeitt. That is in accordance with the estimates and ]ustih 
 on page 241 of the House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
26 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 QUAPAWS, OKLAHOMA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For support of Quapaws, Oklahoma: For education (article 3 treaty of May 
 13, 1833), $1,000; for blacksmitli and assistants, and tools, iron and steei lor 
 blacksmitli shop (same article and treaty). .Y5«J0; in all, $l,oOO. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. That amount is in accordance with our estimates 
 and is justified on page 243 of the House hearings. 
 
 The Chaikmax. Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Senator Owen, there is an item here that we would 
 like to have incorporated regarding domestic missions. 
 
 Senator Owen. I remember about that. Read that to the com- 
 mittee. , , ,. 1, • -i. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The office will be glad to have the following item 
 
 inserted in the bill : 
 
 To pay to the Women's Board of Domestic Missions, Keformed Church in 
 America, $10,000 to reimburse said board for buildings on the Fort Sill Mili- 
 tary Reserve in the State of Oklahoma, constructed by said board with the con- 
 sent of the Government and utilized for the education and civilization of the 
 Fort Sill Apache prisoners of war until the removal of said Indians from said 
 Fort Sill Military Keserve. 
 
 Senator Page. Is not this an old thing that we have had before, 
 Senator? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; it was up last year. 
 
 The Chairman. It went out on a point of order last year. The 
 Senate committee approved it, and it went out on a point of order. 
 
 Senator Owen. It consisted of several buildings put up for the 
 benefit of these Indians. The Government afterwards moved these 
 Indians out west, 1,000 miles away. 
 
 The Chaieman. Without objection, it will be inserted in the bill. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I have a justification for it which I would like to 
 have incorporated in the record. 
 
 The Chairman. You will incorporate the justification in the 
 record, so that we will have access to it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The justification is as follows: 
 
 EELIEF OF women's BOAKD OF DOMESTIC MISSIONS, REFOKMFD CHURCH IN AMERICA. 
 
 In 1898 the Women's Board of Domestic Jlissions, Reformed Church iu 
 America, started a small mission on land then occupied by the Apache Indiau 
 prisoners of war at Fort Sill, Okla. Shortly thereafter they constructed a 
 schoolhouse and a cottage for teachers, and later — between 1900 and 1904 — 
 an orphanage and teachers' home and a barn were erected at a total cost, in- 
 cluding furnishings, as appears from a report of the board, of $13,416.16. The 
 plant now also includes three small buildings or sheds, a windmill and tank, 
 and two wells. This investment', for the purpose bf carrying on the mission 
 work among the Indians mentioned, was made with the expectation that the 
 Indians would eventually be allotted lands in the vicinity, it being generally 
 understood at that time that the Fort Sill Reservation would be their per- 
 manent home. While it apjier.rs that no written contract wa.s entered into with 
 the War Department concerning the occupancy of the lands used by this mission, 
 the work w:!S undertaken with the approval and cooperation of Lieut. F. H. 
 Beach, then in charge of. the Apache prisoners of war. Lieut. Beach and other 
 officers of the War Department, who have subsequently been in charge of these 
 Indians, have, so far as the record shows, uniformly recognized the good work 
 which was being done by this mission and have encouraged it as far as prac- 
 ticable. The mission work was carried on consistently with much benefit to 
 the Indians, being an important factor in their civilization and progress, until 
 
I.J.1 ij±a.±i jijrjrjsui-JniAXlurJ Jili^L. 
 
 the majority of the Indians were removed to tlie Mesccalero Reserxation e 
 OkTahom" "^"'^ transferred to allotments purcbased for them elsewhere 
 
 The dimensions of the buildings al)ove mentioned are given below • Schc 
 house 16 by 54 feet, one story; cottage, 24 by 44 feet, one story; orphanage, 
 by 46 feet, three stones; teacher's home, 24 by 44 feet, with extension 16 
 16 feet, two stories; barn, 16 by 16 feet. 
 
 As hereinbefore said, the mission work of' the aforesaid organization was i 
 dertaken and the investment made by them with the understanding that I 
 locality was to oe the pernia.nent home of the Indians. It ha'^ since been foa 
 desirable, in order to provide for the development of Fort Sill, to remove 1 
 Indians therefrom, and tliey have accordingly been removed either to AIcs^ 
 lero Reservation, m New Mexico, or to allotments purchased for them elsew'u. 
 in Oklahoma, so that the plant in question has become utterly useless to t 
 mission board. 
 
 While it appears that no legal claim against the Government can be ma. 
 'I "f^^,i*^e appears but equitable, under the circumstances, that the boa 
 should be reimbursed to a certain extent for their investment, which w 
 made directly for the benefit of Indian wards for whom the Government 
 responsible. It should be noted that the amount asked for does not cover t 
 entire original cost, nor any part of the cost of up-keep nor cost of maintaini 
 a corps of instructors, whose services to the Indians were undoubtedly of great 
 perhaps of inestimable— value. The mission board states that it is their purpc 
 to continue at Mesealero their well-begun work among these Indians and th 
 the money which is herein asked for, if received, will be converted into bui; 
 ings, equipment, etc., on behalf of these Indians. 
 
 ADMINISTRATION Or THE AFFAIRS OF THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES, 
 
 OKLAHOMA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For expenses of administration of the affairs of the Five Civilized Tribe 
 Oklahoma, and the compensation of employees, $150,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Our estimate was for $175,000. We would like 1 
 have our estimate on this item. 
 
 The Chairman. The item will be agreed to in accordance wit 
 the estimate, without objection. 
 
 Senator Page. We are coming up to something I would like i 
 know more about before I say: "Agreed to," without any questioi 
 What is there about this, Senator Owen ? 
 
 Senator Oaven. The expense of administering the affairs of tt 
 Five Civilized Tribes is very large, because the Government ht 
 taken over the question of acting as guardian of all these restricte 
 Indians. They are administering great oil properties running int 
 the millions of dollars. There are individual - allotments like ths 
 of the Thlocco allotment which is probably worth a million doUai 
 on account of the oil discovered. The Government has assumed thi 
 position of guardianship over the Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. You do not think this comes under the statemen 
 I noted was made by the Secretary of State that they wanted job 
 for the Democrats 'i 
 
 Senator Owen. They are under the civil service. They were firs 
 appointed by the Republicans, mostly as Republicans, and then the; 
 were covered under the civil service. I do not make any point a 
 all except that your suggestion that it would be used to put Demo 
 crats in oiEce has no foundation. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it a general necessity, or is it used somewha 
 as a political recompense ? 
 
28 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owex. No; if the Government is going to carry on that 
 \york, they can not do it without the necessary force. 
 
 Senator Pai:e. Does this fund go largely to attorneys ( 
 
 Senator Owex. No; it goes to the administration of the otbce ol 
 the Commissioner of the Five Civilized Tribes. He has, i think, 
 over 200 employees — ^290 employees. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. You will remember that last year we consoli- 
 dated two offices in one there. The present head of that, i believe, 
 is called superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 Senator Owen. The next item, Senator, is $85,000, covering at- 
 torneys. Those attorneys were found necessary because of the very 
 large number of minors whose estates had to be looked after. There 
 appeared to be some tendency on the part of the unscrupulous m the 
 State to take advantage of the probate courts. 
 
 Senator Eobinsok. As a matter of fact, the record showed that 
 under the old method of administering these estates, the Indians were 
 being charged enormous fees by way of expenses, sometimes averag- 
 ing as high as 25 psr cent of the entire estate. 
 
 Senator Owen. In some cases it went to 20 per cent, but that has 
 been exaggerated in a degree by comparison with white children, 
 where it was wliown that the cost was only nominal, but that was 
 because the white parents really paid out of their own pockets the 
 expenses. There was an abuse there which ought to be corrected, 
 and the (Tovernment undertook to correct it by appointing a number 
 of probate attorneys who should watch after that and be responsible 
 to the (io\-ernment for the protection of those minors' estates. 
 
 Senator Eoj:.i:;so>;. From investigations which I have made I have 
 about reached the conclusion that the system of handling these 
 estates ought to be fundamentally changed, and that the guardian 
 of the person of these Indian minors ought to be a different guardian 
 from the guardian of the estate. I think that would conduce to the 
 interest of the Indian and to the conservation of the estate. But of 
 course you could not put that in this bill. We may have occasion to 
 consider some legislation that I shall propose on that subject. 
 
 Senator Owen. The decision of the Supreme Court in the Mar- 
 chie Tiger case was to the effect that in relation to this property the 
 property was under the restriction, and the Indian in that sense was 
 a restricted Indian. That is to say, the property which he received 
 for the distribution of this estate at the hands of the Government 
 restricted the estate. I do not think the courts have anywhere held 
 that he did not have the other rights of a citizen of the United 
 States, nor that the Government had a right to exercise a personal 
 guardianship over him, he being a citizen of the United States,' but 
 that the Government did have the right to control this estate which 
 came to him through this allotment system at the hands of the Gov- 
 ernment. That was established in both the Marchie Tiger case and 
 the Heckman case before the Supreme Court. Senator Page, you 
 were under the impression that this first item related to the probate 
 attorneys. The second item, you will find, relates to the probate at- 
 torneys. There is $85,003 for that purpose. 
 
 Senator Page. I see that there is an increase here. Just why we 
 should have an increase is, of course, all Greek to me. I do not un- 
 derstand it. We have the $150,000 put in by the House. I know that 
 as a rule, we take the recommendations of the Indian Bureau rather 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. j 
 
 than the House report, but once in a while I think we ought to st( 
 and thmk it we are not going to get too big a bill here 
 
 benator Oaven. I just want to call your attention to the fact th 
 we did appropriaie last year, through both Houses, $175,000, ai 
 this work w-hich is so largely devoted to caring for restricted estat 
 or Indians has not diminished. 
 
 Senator EoBiNsoN. Do you Imow what the aggregate value of tho 
 
 GStfltCS JS V 
 
 Senator Owen. It is gigantic. I do not loiow what it is exactl 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is at least $100,000,000. 
 
 Senator Oavex. I should sav easily $100,300,000. 
 
 Mr. MEraTT. As was said by Senator Owen, this is the exa 
 amount that was allowed last year, $175,000. 
 
 Senator Owen. The Senate and the House both allowed th 
 amount last year. 
 
 Mr. IMeeitt. The service there would be seriously crippled if th 
 amount were reduced. ^Ye could not properly protect the interes 
 of those Indians if an appropriation of only $150,000 were al]ov,-e( 
 
 In answer to the question raised by Senator Page, I will say ths 
 there is absolutely no politics connected with this appropriation. ] 
 is for the purpose of carrying on work by employees who are no 
 in the service, who are protected by the civil service, and there is n 
 politics whatever connected with this administrative work, and wit 
 this item in the bill. 
 
 Senator Page. Is the time ever going to come when we can reduc 
 these large expenditures? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. This appropriation cares for at least 35,000 restricte 
 Indians in eastern Oklahoma, most of whom are full bloods, and : 
 will be years l)efore the Government can release jurisdiction over th 
 full-blood Indians of Okh'.homa. The department would be seriousl 
 hampered and criticized if this appropriation were so reduced tha 
 we could not look after tlie interests of those Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. Then the expense of this should properly continr 
 ously come out of the Federal Treasury, should it ? 
 
 Senator Owen. So long as the GoAernment exercises the positio: 
 of guardian it must pay the cost of being a guardian. 
 
 Senator Page. Would that necessarily be a perpetual act? 
 
 Senator Owen. No. The McCumber amendment in 1906 carrie 
 a provision that these Indians should not dispose of the estates fo 
 25 years. Previous to that time it had been fixed so they migh 
 dispose of them after 5 j^ears; that is, a part of it, except the home 
 stead. The homestead was to be kept during the lifetime of th 
 Indian. But the McCumber amendment changed it so as to exten( 
 it 25 years. The Govei'nment then assumes the guardianship an( 
 finds this guardianship a very complicated and enormous proposi 
 tion, involving 35,000 individual estates, and involving an immens 
 oil field. For instance, in dealing with a single estate, there was th 
 necessity of protecting 160 acres, which might have very valualil 
 oil on it, and from which the oil could be extracted by other opera 
 tors going around the edge of that 160 acres and drawing the oi 
 out through adjacent land. The same thing is true of the gas fields 
 
30 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Government has gotten itself, therefore, into a very large busi- 
 ness, handling property easily estimated at $100,000,000. 
 
 Senator Page. The House committee has among its members a 
 Congressman from Oklahoma, has it not? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. * 
 
 Senator Page. Do you understand that he opposes this reduction 
 from $175,000 to $150,000? 
 
 Senator Ow-en. To tell you the truth, I do not know what he did. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection the item will be agreed to. 
 
 PEOBATE ATTOENETS, FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES, OKLAHOMA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For salaries and expenses of such attorneys and otber employees as the 
 Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, deem necessary in connection 
 with probate matters affecting individual allottees in the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 $85,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is in accordance with our estimate, and is fully 
 justified on page 2l')l of the House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 chei;c)ki:e orphan training school, five civilized tribes, Oklahoma. 
 
 The Ciiaiejian. The next item is as follows: 
 
 For the support, continuance, and maintenance of the Cherokee Orphan 
 Training School, near Tahlequah, Okla., for the orphan Indian children of the 
 Fi\e Civilized Tribes belonging to the restricted class, to bo conducted as an 
 industrial school under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior, $35,000; 
 for repairs and improvements, $5,000; in all, $40,000. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. That is in accordance with our estimate, and is justi- 
 fied on page 254 of the House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 sales of tINALLOTED LANDS, EIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to use 
 not exceeding $40,000 of the proceeds of sales of unallotted lands and other 
 tribal property belonging to any of the Five Civilized Tribes for payment of 
 salaries of employees and other expenses of advertising and sale in connection 
 with the further sales of such tribal lands and property, includinsj the adver- 
 tising and sale of the land within the segregated conl and asphalt area of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasav,' Nations, or of the surface thereof as provided for in 
 the act of Congress approved Februnry 19, 1912 (37 U S Stat L p 67) 
 and of the improvements (hereon and for other work necessary to a final settle- 
 ^^^^L?. ?® affairs of the Five Civilized Tribes : Provided, That not to exceed 
 $10,000 of such amount may be used iu connection with the collection of rents of 
 unallotted lands and tribal buildings : Provided further, That during the fiscal 
 year ending June 80, 1916, no moneys shall be expended from tribal funds 
 belonging to the Five Civilized Tribes without specific appropriation by Con- 
 gress, except as follows : Equalization of allotments, per capita and other pay- 
 ments authorized by law to individual members of the respective tribes tribal 
 and other Indian schools for the current fiscal year under existing law salaries 
 and contingent expenses of governors, chiefs, assistant chiefs secre'taries 
 
INDIAN APPEOPSIATION BILL. 3] 
 
 interpreters, and mining trustees of the tribes for the current fiscal year a 
 salaries not exceeding those for the last fiscal year, and attorneys for sai( 
 tribes employed under contr;ict approved by the President, under existini 
 law, for the current fiscal year. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The language of that item is in accordance witl 
 our estimate, and is justified begiiming at page 258 of the Housi 
 hearings. 
 
 Senator Owen. On page 258 yo-u set out what these items are 
 do you not? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; we set out the reasons for the request 
 This appropriation is used largely for closing up the tribal affairi 
 of the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 Senator Page. You have increased it above your estimate h^ 
 $10,000? 
 
 Mr. MEEirr. The House allowed $40,000. We can use that iten 
 to advantage. We would be glad to have the item as passed bj 
 the House carried in the Indian bill in the Senate. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator Owen, do you approve of this? 
 
 Senator Owen. I think, on line 9, there should be inserted, aftei 
 the word " thereon," the words, " which is hereby expressly author 
 ized," and not leave it merely to an implication. 
 
 The CiiAiKiiAN. Without objection, that will be agreed to. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. "We should like to have incorporated in the bill 
 after line 2, on page 26, the following item, reading as follows: 
 
 Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to con 
 tinue and maint;)in schools among the Choctaw. Chickasaw, Creek, and Semi 
 nole Tribes, ]i. yable from the tribal funds of the;^e nations, pursuant to th( 
 act of April 2C. ItiOG (34 Stat. L., pp. 137, 140). 
 
 Senator Owen. I should like to pass that for the present until ] 
 can go into it more fully. 
 
 Senator Page. Would that be subject to a point of order? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It might be subject to a point of order, but I wil 
 state for the benefit of the committee that the comptroller hai 
 recently held that after the close of the fiscal year we can no longei 
 use tribal funds for the support of tribal and mission schools tha 
 are now being supported out of tribal funds in the Choctaw anc 
 Chickasaw Nations. Unless we get legislation at this session o: 
 Congress those schools will have to be closed on July 1. 
 
 Senator Kobixson. That is the item that authorizes the expendi 
 ture of tribal funds to maintain sectarian schools, is it? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This item here would continue the present triba 
 schools as well as the present mission schools that are being sup 
 ported out of tribal fund. 
 
 Senator Owen. What schools are they, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The luission schools or the tribal schools? 
 
 Senator Ov/en. The schools you are referring to in that item. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This item refers to both the mission schools anc 
 the tribal schools. . . 
 
 Senator Owen. Just what are the tribal schools, waiving th( 
 
 mission schools? 
 Mr. Meritt. The following table shows the tribal schools. 
 
32 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 Tribal schools, Five Civilised Tribes, 1914- 
 
 Cherokee Nation: Cherokee Orphan 
 Creek Nation; 
 
 Euchee 
 
 Eufaula 
 
 Nnyaka 
 
 Tallahassee 
 
 Seminole Nation; Mekusukey 
 
 Choctaw Nation; 
 
 Armstrong Acadamy 
 
 Jones Male Academy 
 
 Tuskahoma 
 
 Wheelock Academy 
 
 Chickasaw Nation; 
 
 Bloomfield Seminary 
 
 Collins Institute 
 
 Capacity. 
 
 100 
 100 
 92 
 
 75 
 100 
 
 120 
 100 
 110 
 100 
 
 80 
 62 
 
 Enroll- 
 ment. 
 
 125 
 139 
 123 
 9:3 
 140 
 
 119 
 113 
 
 1C3 ; 
 
 130 I 
 
 ss i 
 
 -Vvcrage 
 attend- 
 ance. 
 
 63.4 
 
 100. 8 
 
 102.6 
 
 83.4 
 
 71.2 
 
 94.6 
 
 101.7 
 143. 
 107.9- 
 92.7 
 
 78. 
 51.6 
 
 Per capita cost 
 
 Enroll- 
 ment. 
 
 S190. 00 
 
 129. 36 
 112.20 
 122. 20 
 126. 30 
 117.01 
 
 176. 55 
 136. 23 
 123. 26 
 125. 08 
 
 116.24 
 181.87 
 
 Averae 
 
 attend 
 
 ance. 
 
 $254. 00 
 
 160. 11 
 161. 49 
 176.84 
 165.44 
 179.82 
 
 205.98 
 136.23 
 186.03 
 174. 85 
 
 131. 14 
 262,32 
 
 In computing per capita cost in the above cases there has been deducted the cost of 
 repairs, building construction, and permanent equipment ; there has been included cost 
 of transportation ot supplies and funds used from the appropriation " Relieving distress 
 and prevention of diseases, etc., among Indians." 
 
 Senator Owen. What is the policy of the department with regard 
 to those schools? Are they going to transfer them to the State 
 sooner or later, or not ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The department has not yet announced a policy in 
 regard to those schools. I would not like to attempt to state a policy 
 for the department on that question at this time. 
 
 Senator Owen. Is the form of that a continuing one, or only for 
 the current year? 
 
 Sir. Meritt. Only for the current year. 
 
 Senator Owen. Read that item again, if you please. 
 
 iir. Meritt. It reads: 
 
 Provided, That tlie Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to continue 
 and maintain schools among the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, and Seminole 
 Tribes, payable from the tribal funds of these nations, pursuant to the act of 
 April 26, 1906 (34 Stat. L., pp. 137, 140). 
 
 Senator Owen. What language limits that to this year ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is an appropriation for only one year. This bill 
 appropriates money for only one year. 
 
 Senator Ovi-en. That language would indicate that it was a per- 
 petual authority'. 
 
 Mr. MzrcriT. " The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized 
 to continue and maintain schools," and so forth. 
 
 Senator Owen. Without limitation of time? 
 
 Mr;.' Meritt. It would be our interpretation that that would be 
 limited to the current year. 
 
 Senator Oaven. I believe you had better put language in there 
 that will not lt;a\ e the department to interpret it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. V^e will be very glad to have limiting language put 
 in there. 
 
 Senator Page. You spoke about mission schools, Senator Owen. 
 Is there some opposition to the support of mission schools out of the 
 tribal funds? 
 
IJNDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 3 
 
 Senator Owex. Yes; I think there is. I do not think the missio 
 school should be supported out of the tribal funds. 
 
 Senator Page. Did you not say, Mr. Meritt, that they did help th 
 mission schools out of tribal funds? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; there are now being paid out of tribal an 
 treaty funds $143,391 to mission schools. 
 
 Senator Owen. What mission schools are they? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have a list of them. 
 
 Senator 0\ven. I should be glad to have it put in the record, witl 
 the amount given to each. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I have that prepared here. 
 
 Senator Owen. Will you read it? 
 
 Mr. ^Ieritt. It reads as follows : 
 
 Sectarian contract schools in Indian Service with amounts set aside for eac 
 
 for 1915. 
 
 School. 
 
 Location. 
 
 No. 
 
 Tribe. 
 
 Total. 
 
 Denominatior 
 
 St. Labre's 
 
 Tongue River Reservation 
 Keshena, Wis 
 
 33 
 
 150 
 
 75 
 
 9 
 
 34 
 
 100 
 
 6 
 
 270 
 
 20 
 225 
 
 40 
 30 
 50 
 20 
 25 
 
 35 
 25 
 15 
 15 
 80 
 25 
 25 
 
 
 $3,564 
 
 16,200 
 
 9,375 
 
 972 
 
 3,672 
 
 10,000 
 
 648 
 
 29,160 
 
 2,160 
 24,300 
 
 4,320 
 3,240 
 5,400 
 2,160 
 2,700 
 
 3,780 
 2,700 
 1,620 
 1,620 
 9,600 
 2,700 
 2,700 
 
 Catholic. 
 Do. 
 Do. 
 Do. 
 
 Do 
 
 St. Joseph's 
 
 
 St. Louis 
 
 Osage Reservation, Okla.. 
 Quapaw Reservation, 
 
 Okla. 
 Crow Creek Reservation... 
 
 Shoshone Reservation 
 
 Crow Creek Reservation... 
 Rosebud, S. Dak 
 
 
 St. Mary's 
 
 
 Immaculate Conception 
 
 
 St. Stephens 
 
 
 Do: 
 Do. 
 Do. 
 Do. 
 Do. 
 
 Immaculate Conception 
 
 St. Francis 
 
 Lower Brule. . 
 
 Do 
 
 do 
 
 Pine Ridge 
 
 Holy Rosary 
 
 Pine Ridge, S. Dak 
 
 FIVE TEIBES. 
 
 
 Choctaw 
 
 do 
 
 Chickasaw 
 
 Choctaw boys. 
 Chic k a s a w 
 boys. 
 
 Choctaw 
 
 Chicksaw 
 
 Choctaw 
 
 Chickasaw 
 
 Choctaw 
 
 Chickasaw..;. 
 Choctaw 
 
 St. Agnes Academy 
 
 Ardmore, Okla 
 
 Do 
 
 Do 
 
 
 
 Do . . 
 
 ... -do 
 
 Do 
 
 Do 
 
 do 
 
 Do 
 
 St. Elizabeth's 
 
 Purcell, Okla 
 
 Do 
 
 Do 
 
 . . do 
 
 Do 
 
 St. Joseph's 
 
 Chickasha, Okla 
 
 Do. 
 
 Do 
 
 do .... 
 
 Do 
 
 Old Goodland 
 
 
 Presbyterian. 
 Do. 
 
 Presbyterian College for Girls 
 Do 
 
 Dxnant, Okla . . 
 
 do 
 
 Do. 
 
 
 
 
 Total 
 
 1,307 
 
 143,391 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Senator Owen. It amounts to about $100 apiece? 
 
 Mr. jNIeeitt. Just about $100 apiece. 
 
 Senator Owen. How are those children selected for those schools 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The parents, I believe, send them to the missioi 
 schools, and we make a contract with the church for their education 
 
 Senator Owen. How is that distributed among the children o; 
 the tribes ? That comes out of the tribal funds ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. In Oklahoma it is simply taken out of the triba 
 funds, and there is really no actual distribution. 
 
 Senator Owen. Who selects those children? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The mission people, I imagine, get these children t( 
 attend their schools, and we make a contract for the payment o 
 their tuition. In the table I have given is a complete list of tlu 
 sectarian schools in the Indian Service. 
 ,S2s:;:! — VOL 1 — 1.5 .'i 
 
34 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Oaven. Do you try to apportion the number of children 
 to the different denominations, or is tliat a matter that is beyona 
 
 your influence? . , , , x- „ „,./. 
 
 Mr. jMeeitt. No, sir; the denominations that are most active are 
 
 usually the ones that get the contracts. . , 
 
 Senator Robinson. As a matter of fact. Congress in 1896 passed 
 an act announcing a policy not to make further appropriations for 
 the support of sectarian schools withm the Indian Service, and the 
 validity of that act was tested in the Supreme Court of the United 
 States, the court, as I remember it, sustaining the validity of the 
 act. Have vre been carrving in all these bills the appropriations ever 
 since, notwithstanding that declaration of policy and the decision 
 
 of the Supreme Court? xi ^ • r 
 
 Mr Mekitt. The Supreme Court, in what is known as the ^mcA 
 Bear case, reported in 210 U. S., at page 50, held that we could 
 not use gratuity appropriations for the support of sectarian schools. 
 There was a statement of the court, however, to the effect that tribal 
 funds could be used for that purpose. 
 
 Senator Robinson. And these are tribal funds? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. These are tribal funds, and they have been used since 
 that decision of the Supreme Court. 
 
 Senator Owen. Did the court indicate under what conditions tribal 
 funds could be used for sectarian purposes? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It has been some time since I read the decision, Sena- 
 tor. I would not like to express an opinion. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Was this matter presented to the House com- 
 mittee in detail? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. They did not ask for the detail which this committee 
 is now asking. 
 
 Senator Page. You are doing the best you can for the Indian boys 
 and girls in patronizing these schools, in your judgment? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I would not like to announce a policy that should be 
 pursued on this religious school question one way or the other with- 
 out careful consideration. 
 
 Senator Page. I am very nonpartisan in my attitude toward any 
 church. I do not belong to any church, and support them all pretty 
 much. I want to laiow Avhat is best for the Indian pupils, if I can. 
 What do you say. Senator? 
 
 Senator Owen. I was just going to ask him this question : Whether 
 or not $100 paid really covered all the expense, or whether the de- 
 nominations contributed substantially out of their own funds in this 
 charitable work. I wanted to ascertain whether the Government was 
 pajdng for the entire cost of the charity or whether the denomina- 
 tions were paying a part of the cost of the charity ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think that in some cases perhaps the denomina- 
 tions may be contributing a part of the expense. These schools 
 have been conducted for a number of years out of tribal funds. 
 Both Catholic and Protestant schools are paid out of the funds. 
 The Catholics have a majority of the schools. I might say that 
 the mission schools have done splendid work in the Indian Service, 
 and we are glad to have the cooperation of the mission people of all 
 denominations in helping in this large Indian problem, and we 
 appreciate that they have done a splendid work along those lines. 
 
IJNLUAJN AFPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 3l 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Suppose we pass this for the present and tab 
 it up betore we conclude with the bill. 
 
 Senator Owen. I wanted to ask about an Indian school at Ana 
 darko that was conducted by the Government, which I understanc 
 IS a sectarian school, and which is not given in this list. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The school at Anadarko is supported out of gratuit^ 
 appropriations made by Congress. 
 
 Senator Owen. AVhy was not that listed here? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Because that is not connected with the Five Civ 
 ilized Tribes. 
 
 Senator Owen. This is not connected with the Five Civilizec 
 Tribes either. This is a list of sectarian contract schools. Probabl;; 
 that accounts for its omission. 
 
 Senator Page. The heading reads : " The Five Civilized Tribes." 
 
 Senator Owen. I know that, but this list which Mr. Meritt sub 
 mits is a list of sectarian schools which are supported in part by th( 
 Government. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is not included here because the Government ha; 
 taken over that sectarian school, and it is now run as a Governmeni 
 school. 
 
 Senator Owen. How many sectarian schools has the Governmeni 
 taken over in Oklahoma which they are now conducting as Govern 
 ment schools? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The Government has in the past taken over, oi 
 covered in, as they term it technically, a number of sectarian schools 
 throughout the United States. I will incorporate in the record th( 
 number and the names of those schools. 
 
 Senator Owen. I should like to have that done, indicating where 
 they are, the number of pupils, and the cost, together with the seel 
 which may have been in charge of the schools. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. For how long a period, Senator ? 
 
 Senator Ovvtex. For the last four or five years, since you changec 
 that policy. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. If you would have it cover a period of 10 years, yoi 
 would probably get more information. 
 
 Senator Owen. Then make it 10 years. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The data asked for is as follows : 
 
 Schools taken over from religious denominations and private parties ant 
 changed to Government schools, under letter of 1895, Civil Service Commis 
 sioii. 
 
 Name. 
 
 Denomina- 
 tion. 
 
 Capac- 
 ity. 
 
 Date covered 
 in. 
 
 Date dis- 
 continued. 
 
 Cost. 
 
 Montana Industrial Crov Ee.serva- 
 
 tion, Mont. 
 Hope Boarding, Pprin^eld, R. Dak.. 
 Wittenberg Boarding, Wisconsin .... 
 Greenville, Boarding, California 
 
 Unitarian 
 
 Episcopal 
 
 Lutheran 
 
 National In- 
 dian Asso- 
 tion. 
 
 60 
 
 60 
 140 
 100 
 
 40 
 40 
 
 40 
 
 July 1,1893 
 
 do 
 
 do 
 
 Apr. 23,1897 
 
 July 1,1895 
 Mar. 1,1892 
 July 1,1896 
 
 1897 
 
 (') 
 (1) 
 « 
 
 (') 
 (1) 
 
 S2,443.5 
 
 7,500.0 
 
 11,000.0 
 
 600.0 
 
 Max. ' ' 
 Larana Day, Laguna Pueblo, N. , Calliolic 
 
 Mex 
 Jamcz Dav No. l,.Tamez Pueblo, N. ■ Presbyterian.. 
 
 Mex. " ! 
 
 
 
 
 1 Now in operation. 
 
 2 Not in operation . 
 
36 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Schools taken over from, religious denominations and private parties and 
 changed to Qovernment schools, etc. — Continued. 
 
 Name. 
 
 ZuQi Boarding, Zuni Keservation, 
 
 N. Mex. 
 Acoma Daj', Acomila Tueblo, N. 
 
 Mex. 
 San Juan Day, Pan Juan Pueblo, X. 
 
 Mex. 
 
 Taos Day, Taos Pueblo, N. Mex 
 
 Isleta Day, Isleta Pueblo, N. Mex. . . 
 Grace Mission, Crow Creek, S. Dak. . 
 Clontarf, St. Paul Boarding, St. Paul, 
 
 Minn. 
 
 Morris Boarding, Morris, Minn 
 
 Santo Domingo Day, Santo Do- 
 mingo Pueblo, N. Mex. 
 Red Cliff Day, La Point Reserva^ 
 
 tion, Wis. 
 
 Baraga Day, Michigan 
 
 Odanab Day, Bad River ReservB- 
 
 tion. Wis. 
 
 Bay Mills Day, Bay Mills, Mich 
 
 Uintah Boardiog, Uintah and Ouray 
 
 Reservation, Utah. 
 Lac Courte Oreille Day, La Polnte 
 
 Agency, Wis. 
 Jemez Day No. 2, Jemez PueWo, 
 
 N. Mex. 
 San Xavier Day, San Xavier Reser- 
 vation, Ariz. 
 Sacred Heart Mission Boarding, Fort 
 
 Berthold Reservation, N. Dak. 
 St. Patricks Mission, Kiowa, etc., 
 
 Anadarko, Okla. 
 
 Denomina- 
 tion. 
 
 Presbyterian 
 
 Catholic 
 
 ....do 
 
 ....do. 
 .do. 
 
 Private.. 
 Catholic. 
 
 ....do.. 
 ....do.. 
 
 -do. 
 
 .do. 
 .do. 
 
 Methodist 
 
 Episcopal 
 
 Catholic 
 
 ....do 
 
 ....do 
 
 ....do 
 
 ....do 
 
 Capac- 
 ity. 
 
 50 
 
 60 
 
 50 
 
 30 
 .50 
 35 
 80 
 
 150 
 50 
 
 30 
 
 40 
 90 
 
 50 
 70 
 
 45 
 
 36 
 
 165 
 75 
 
 200 
 
 Date covered 
 
 m. 
 
 Nov. 1, 1896 
 Dec. 10,1896 
 ....do 
 
 Nov. 1,1896 
 Feb. i; 1897 
 
 do 
 
 Apr. 4,1897 
 
 Apr. 
 Apr. 
 
 3, 1897 
 5, 1897 
 
 July 1, 1896 
 
 Sept. 1,1897 
 
 Nov. 1, 1897 
 
 Nov. 8, 1897 
 
 Sept. 1,1908 
 
 Sept. 1,1909 
 
 Oct. 23,1909 
 
 Mar. 9, 1910 
 
 Oct. 1, 1911 
 
 Dec. 1, 1911 
 
 Date dis- 
 continued. 
 
 (') 
 (') 
 (') 
 
 (') 
 
 (') 
 Jan. 12,1903 
 Feb. 13,1900 
 
 Apr. 3, 1909 
 June 30,1903 
 
 (') 
 « 
 
 1900 
 
 Cost. 
 
 11,970.00 
 
 8,576.00 
 10,060.00 
 
 18,336.00 
 Rented. 
 
 Deeded. 
 Rented. 
 
 Rented. 
 Rented. 
 Rented. 
 
 1 Not in operation. 
 
 2 Government property. 
 
 as 
 
 Senator Owen. I want to ask you this question: Do the same peo- 
 ple, belonging to the same sects, conduct these schools now as Gov- 
 ernment schools ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; in a number of instances. 
 
 Senator Owen. Then, in fact, the Government is conducting the 
 schools as Government schools, which are being handled by the same 
 sects that previously conducted them? 
 
 Mr. Meriti'. Yes, sir ; in some cases. 
 
 Senator Owen. Does that comply, do you think, with the spirit of 
 the policy laid down by the Government ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Under this administration. Senator, I will say that no 
 sectarian school has been covered in and supported out of Govern 
 ment funds. We inherited this condition, and are carrying it out a! 
 has been done heretofore. 
 
 Senator Owen. What was the suggestion you made. Senator Eob- 
 inson ? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. To pass over this item and not undertake to 
 dispose of it now. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to its being passed over? 
 
 Senator Owen. No. 
 
 The Chairjian. Let it be passed over, then. 
 
 FULFILLING TREATIES WITH CHOCTAWS, OKLAHOMA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 For fulfllliug treaties with Choctaws, Okluliom.-i : For periuanent annuity 
 (art. 2, treaty of Xov. 16, 1805, and art. 13, treaty of June 22, 1855) $3 000- 
 for permanent annuity for support of liglit-liorsemen (art. 13, treaty of Oct 18 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 3 
 
 1820, and art. 13, treaty of June 22, 1S55), $600; for permauent .■mnuity fo 
 support of blacksmith (art. G, treaty of Oct. 18, 1S20, and art. 9, treaty of Jai 
 20, 1825, and art 13, treaty of June 22, 1855), $600; for permanent annuit 
 for education (art. 2, treaty of J^u. 20, ]82.^i, and art. 13, treaty of Jime 22, 1855' 
 $6,000; for permanent annuity for iron and steel (art. 9, treaty of Jan 20, 182S 
 and art. 13, treaty of June 22, 1855), $320; in all, $10,520. 
 
 Senator Page. These are all in accordance with treaties ? 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 The Chairman. And estimated for? 
 
 Mr. MERia-r. Yes, sir. That item is justified on page 260 of th 
 House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item is agreed to. 
 
 CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW TRIBES OF INDIANS, OKLAHOMA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to pay t 
 the enrolled members of the Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes of Indians of Okla 
 homa entitled under existing law to share in the funds of said tribes, or to thei 
 lawful heirs, out of any moneys belonging to said tribes in the United State 
 Treasury or deposited in any bank or held by any official under the jurisdictioi 
 of the Secretary of the Interior, not to exceed $200 per capita in the ease of th' 
 Choctaws and $100 per capita in the case of the Chickasaws, said payment t^ 
 be made under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior ma; 
 prescribe: Provided, That in cases where s^uch enrolled members, or their heirs 
 are Indians who by reason of their degree of Indian blood belong to the re 
 stricted class, the Secretary of the Interior may, iu his discretion, withhoL 
 such payments and use the same for the benefit of such restricted Indians 
 Provided further, That the money ii.iid to the enrolled members as providei 
 herein shall be exempt from any licni for attorneys' fees or other debt con 
 ti'acted prior to the passage of this act. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is that the same thing we had up last yeai? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Just a moment about this item. Mr. Pat Harri 
 son, a Eepresentative from Mississippi, came in on the floor of thi 
 Senate while I was down there a few moments ago, and asked whei 
 tliis item would be reached. I said that I was unable to inform him 
 He said he would like an opportunitj^ to be present, to speak on thii 
 matter. 
 
 Senator Owen. Suppose that be passed over until Mr. Harrison ha; 
 a chance to be heard. 
 
 The Chairman. With no objection, that will be done. 
 
 Senator Page. Just one word. This proviso does not call for ai 
 appropriation, I see. It is simply some legislation. Is that right? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It permits the use of tribal funds in making a pe: 
 capita payment. 
 
 Senator Page. But does not appropriate money ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It appropriates money out of the tribal funds, bu 
 not out of the Treasury of the United States. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Why was not that subject to a point of ordei 
 in the House? He made all those points of order. How does i 
 happen that he did not object to this? There must be some reasoi 
 why it is not subject to a point of order. 
 
 The Chaieman. That will be passed for the present. 
 
 Mr Meritt There is a provision of law which authorizes the pay 
 ment of tribal funds after the affairs of the tribes have been wounc 
 up. 
 
38 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. These have been, hare they ^ 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Partl3^ There is a basic lo^v for this proposed action. 
 Senator Lane. Was there not a question about some of them not 
 having been enrolled? . . 
 
 The Chaibman. Yes. This is the Mississippi ( hoctaws. 
 
 OIL a-M) gas inspectors, rivE civilized tribes. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows: 
 
 For salaries and expenses of six oil and gas inspectors, authorizer in the 
 Indian appropriation act approved August 1, 1914, to be under the direction 
 of the Secretary of the Interior, to supervise oil and gas mining operations on 
 allotted lands leased by members of the Five Civilized Tribes from which re- 
 strictions have not been removed, and to conduct investigations with a view 
 to the prevention of wa.ste, $25,000. 
 
 Senator Lane. Did we have that same item up last year ? 
 
 Mr. M:eritt. Yes, sir. This item is in accordance with our esti- 
 mate and is justified on page 267 of the House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item is agreed to. 
 
 roadway, CHOCTAAV nation, OKLAHOMA. 
 
 The Chair.man. The next item is as follows: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to acquire on behalf 
 of the Choctaw Nation, Oklahoma, by purchase or otherwise, such lands or ease- 
 ments as shall be necessary for the purpose of a roadway leading from Wheelock 
 Academy, Choctaw Nation, Oklahoma, to the public highway, and to expend 
 therefor not to exceed $150, from Choctaw tribal funds. 
 
 Without objection, the item is agreed to. 
 
 Senator Owen. There are two or three things that ought to be 
 cared for here. I spoke a moment ago with regard to the value of 
 some of these allotments — the Thlocco allotment, for instance, being 
 worth a million dollars. The Creek attorney — and I understand 
 that the Indian Bureau approves the suggestion — desires to have an 
 appropriation made out of the funds of the Creek Tribe of $25,000 
 for the purpose of investigating some fifty-odd allotments which were 
 made to the Snake Indians, if I might use such a term — ^they call 
 them the Snakes — ^but they were people who were very much opposed 
 to being allotted, regarding it as a breach of the treaty. So that the 
 Government did not have them present themselves, as they ought 
 to have done, but finally made arbitrary allotments, and they left 
 for these arbitrary allotments certain lands that were not good for 
 agricultural purposes, but which afterwards developed as a very 
 valuable oil field. It seems that some 50 of these allotments were 
 made in duplication — some of them duplicates, some of them made 
 for people who were dead, but whose death was not known at the 
 time the allotment was made. That is to say, they simply stand in the 
 name of these dead allottees, or in the name of duplicate allottees. 
 Now, the Creek attorney wants to have these allotments canceled, 
 and not only he wants to have them canceled, but he wants the Creek 
 Tribe, as a tribe, to have the value of this oil field, and not have it 
 allotted to new individuals who may set up a claim for allotment, 
 because if the allotment was made to an individual, it would give 
 the individual a property which might be worth a million dollars. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 35: 
 
 Senator Eobinson. There are one or two instances where that i^ 
 the case, where the allotment is worth a million dollars. 
 
 Senator Owen. I understand that the Thlocco allotment is wortl 
 a million dollars, and that there are se^■eral allotments of almost likt 
 value. Probably these allotments would be worth in the neighbor 
 hood of $10,000,000. For that reason I presented two proposec 
 amendments on January 9, which will be found on our calendar 
 pages 220 and 221. 
 
 There were two separate items. They read as follows : 
 
 -That tlie unallotted land or publie domain of the Creek Nation or Tribe o 
 Indians, including any land the title to which has been, or may be, recoverec 
 for the Creek Nation, in any pending or other suit, or otherwise, be, and th( 
 same is hereby, withheld from allotment to members of said nation or tribe 
 and that the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized in hi! 
 discretion to cause such land to be sold, or leased, for the benefit of the Creel 
 Nation or Tribe of Indians, under such rules and regulations as he may pre 
 scribe, the proceeds of such sale, or lease, to be pnid into the Trensnry of th< 
 United States to the cietlit of said Creek Nntion. 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be. and he is hereby, authorized and di 
 rected to cause to be made an investigation concerning duplicate and fradulen 
 enrollments and allotments of members of the Creek Tribe of Indians in Okla 
 homa, or of persons who were represented to be such, and to investigate thi 
 rights of the Creek Nation in and to the beds of the Arkansas and Cimarroi 
 Rivers in Oklahoma : and that the Secretary of the Interior be, and he i 
 hereby, authorized and directed to take such action as may be necessary an( 
 appropriate to recover for the Creek Nation any land erroneously allotted h 
 members of said nation or to persons represented to be such; and that th' 
 Secretary of the Interior be. and he is hereby, authorized to employ such per 
 sons as may be necessary for the purpose of making an immediate and thorougl 
 Investigation of alleged duplicate and fraudulent ■ enrollment and allotmen 
 cases and also the claim of the Creek Nation to the beds of the Arkansas am 
 Cimarron Rivers; and there is hereby appropriated, out of any money in th 
 Treasury of the United States belonging to the Creek Nation of Indians, th 
 sum of $25 000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, for the purpose of pay 
 Ing the salaries and necessary expenses of persons employed in making sue 
 investigation and for the payment of such other necessary expenses as ma; 
 be incurred under authorization and direction of the Secretary of the Ir 
 terior in connection therewith. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. As a matter of fact, what we want to do is t^ 
 reserve the lands from allotment, and make them a common asset to 
 the benefit of all the members of the tribe. 
 
 Senator Owen. That is right. ^ a^ a 
 
 Senator Robinson. You do not really want to sell these lands, d 
 
 you? 
 
 Senator Owen. No. -, <.l ^ ti 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Then why not strike out the word sale an. 
 
 leave them to be leased? ,, 
 
 Senator Owen. Because the general policy has been to sell o 
 
 lease Of course they might do one or the other, but the purpose ha 
 
 been to wind up the affairs of the Five Tribes, and as Senator Pag 
 
 suSested a while ago, not to perpetuate a thmg unnecessarily. A 
 
 sS as they^et the great flow of oil out of one of these allotment; 
 
 fo? instance^ ?nd the oil runs down to what they regard as a standar, 
 
 Soduction they can then sell that production on a.certam basis pe 
 production, tney c ^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^j ^^^ p., 
 
 S^s ha^" been tX^ off ft telJes two or three years, and sometame 
 ?ot7r or five years to get' down to what is regarded as a fixed flov 
 
40 INDIAN APPKOPKIATIOX BILL. 
 
 Then they can sell that, and sell it Avithout jeopardy of any possible 
 
 '''sSiator EoBi^^soN. We had a hearing upon this matter^ The 
 Indian Affairs Committee could not take it up, so the commiss on 
 took it up. Mr. Allen appeared before us and made a detailed 
 statement of the matter. I am convinced, and I think all o± the 
 members of the commission were, that some legislation is necessary 
 to prevent this land being taken up by individuals, who would thus 
 acquire enormous fortunes all out of proportion to anything that has 
 been given or can be given to the other members of the tribe. 
 
 Senator Owen. It has resulted in the most astonishing activity on 
 the part of some lawyers who have large contingent fees, who are 
 scratching the ends of the earth to find a means of getting control 
 of this property. j. u n 
 
 Senator Robinson. They have promoted what appear to be ail 
 sorts of attempts at fraud or forgeries. I make this suggestion to 
 you, Senator Owen, that you also introduce a bill, if you have not 
 already done so, and say that the committee has authorized the 
 reporting of the bill. 
 
 Senator Owen. I will ask the committee to authorize me to report 
 these measures as an independent bill, and also put it on this bill. 
 I would be quite willing to have " sales " struck out, because we can 
 have that inserted if hereafter we think it necessary. 
 
 The Chairman. You -n-ill promote its passage by striking out 
 " sales," I think. 
 
 Senator Owen. Then let it go out. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I Avant to say that the Indian Office is heartily in 
 favor of the amendments which have been proposed by Senator 
 (^wen. "We agree with what has been said regarding the importance 
 of this proposed legislation. 
 
 Senator Owen. There was another item that I wanted to call 
 attention to, page 225 of our calendar. 
 
 Senator Gore, my colleague, introduced a proposed amendment, 
 as follows: 
 
 The sum of $300,000. to be expended in the discretion of the Secretary of the 
 Interior under rules and regulations to be prescribed by him, in aid of the 
 common schools in the Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and 
 Osage Kations and the Quapaw Agency In Oklahoma, during the fiscal year 
 ending June 30, 1916 : Provided, That this appropriation shall not be sub,1ect to 
 the limitation in section 1 of this act limiting the expenditure of money to 
 educate children of less than one-fourth Indian blood. 
 
 The Chairman. Was that estimated for? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We estimated for $275,000. 
 
 Senator Owen. I did not know that. I will be glad to ask that 
 it be changed so as to be in accordance with the estimate. Congress 
 has been making that appropriation for some years. 
 
 The Chairman. What was the amount last year? 
 
 Senator Owen. Two hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars. 
 Congress has been making that for some years because these lands 
 were not taxable, and because of that fact the communities were not 
 able to provide the necessaiy funds to take care of the youth of that 
 section. 
 
 Senator Page. You want this fund so it will apply to the education 
 of those of less than one-fourth Indian blood? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATIOX BILL. 4 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 _^Mr. Meritt. This item is justified on page 256 of the House heai 
 
 The Chairman. We had considerable discussion on that last vea; 
 and the committee agreed on $275,000 
 
 Senator Owex. The committees of both Houses have agreed o 
 that tor some years. '^ 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Was it put in the bill and stricken out on 
 point of order? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there objection to that? If not, it will b 
 agreed to and inserted in the bill. 
 
 LOYAL GREEKS. 
 
 Senator Owen. There was one item that I wanted to call to th 
 attention ot the committee. That is the case of the Loyal Creeks 
 Ihe committee last year reported an item of that kind, and it wa 
 fought out on the floor of the Senate. It was defeated on a poin 
 of order. I suppose it would be subject to a point of order again i 
 they make it. 
 
 The Chairman. And they will make it. Senator. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think "they will make it, undoubtedly. The^ 
 have made it before. I suppose they will make it again. " But th 
 committee for years has reported it, one year after another. Thi 
 Senate of the United States, acting as a board of arbitration, de 
 termined the question between the United States and the Creel 
 Indians at $1,200,000. It was expressly in the treaty that the Senate 
 should act as an umpire, with the powers of an arbitration board 
 and its decisions to be final. The decision was rendered with tha 
 matter before the Senate, and the Senate, perfectly aAvare that i 
 was passing upon this matter as an arbitration board, decided ii 
 favor of these people, allowing them $1,200,000 out of a claim whicl 
 had been cut from a large amount to $1,800,000. The Senate cu 
 it down $600,000, and put an item in the Indian appropriation bil 
 to pay it. It went over to the House, and on the House side 
 with their usual thrift and economical tendency, thej' cut it down t( 
 $600,000, just simply taking the Senate's award and treating it ai 
 if it did not exist. When it came back to the Senate the Senati 
 accepted this cut because the House conferees would not agree t( 
 anything else. The House conferees therefore coerced the Senat< 
 in the payment of the award. It was afterwards contended that 
 since the Senate was in that way induced to vote $600,000 in th( 
 appropriation bill, therefore the Senate had consented to reconside: 
 its own award and to change it from $1,200,000 to $600,000. TTpoi 
 that statement of facts substantially, together with the original basis 
 of justifying the finding of the Senate, this committee has timt 
 and again made a favorable report. I think, undoubtedly,' a poini 
 of order will be made, and I think the point of order will probablj 
 lie. So I lay it before the committee, as I am duty bound to do. 
 
 The Chairman. I am in accord with your view. But time maj 
 become of the essence in considering this bill. It will involve a greal 
 deal of discussion, and I feel certain a point of order will be made. 
 
42 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Robinson. A bill to the same effect has been considered 
 by a subcommittee. There seems to be no valid dissent to the ciaimj 
 and the award, as I understand it, has the effect of a judgment, and 
 Congress can not relieve itself from its moral liability. 
 
 Senator Owen. We might permit them to go into the Court of 
 Claims to adjust it, and then, perhaps, a point of order would not 
 be made on that. i • i g 
 
 Senator Robinson. Why do you not just report the bill ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Suppose I just report the bill, subject to the point 
 of order. Would it be agreeable to the committee to let this go to 
 the Court of Claims, and get rid of it in that way ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. Why should it go to the Court of Claims? 
 It has been adjudicated. 
 
 Senator Owen. I know that, but the adjudication itself is antag- 
 onized. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is a question of law, as to whether Coi^ 
 gress can, after it has made an award in the manner provided by a 
 treaty, just arbitrarily say, "We will pay you one-half of this 
 award, and if you do not take that you shall not have any more." 
 
 Senator Owen. My suggestion was to send it to the Court of 
 Claims to determine whether or not it was an award. 
 
 Senator Robinson. There is no question about its being an award. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think there is any question about it, but 
 it is disputed. Some men say it is not an award ; that the Senate 
 reconsidered its own action when it agreed to pay the $600,000. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I am familiar with the claim. I agree with 
 you as to its basis. Whj do you not report a bill appropriating the 
 right amount? 
 
 Senator Owen. I understand the committee is quite agreeable to 
 that. I will be glad to do that. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not object to an item going into this bill 
 to pay it, so far as I am concerned. 
 
 The Chairman. I do not object, but I think it would cause a day 
 or two discussion, and it would go out, anyhow. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think a point of order would be made on 
 this bill sending it to the Court of Claims to determine whether or 
 not it was an adjudication. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I have no objection to that. 
 
 The Chairman. You will prepare the item ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that going in? If not, 
 it will be approved. We are assuming, Mr. Commissioner, that you 
 are favorable to it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have no objection to that action. 
 
 The Chairman. You are going to report the bill, Senator Owen? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 SANATORIUM, CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW INDIANS. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. There was one item omitted by the House, as follows: 
 
 For maintenance of the sanatorium for the Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians 
 lor incidental and all other expenses for its proper conduct and management' 
 including pay of employees, repairs, improvements, and for necessary expense 
 of transporting Indians suffering with tuberculosis and trachoma to nnri frnm 
 said sanatorium, $20,000. " 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 4; 
 
 The CtiAiRaiAx. Is that estimated for? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. It is estimated for, and is justified at page 261 o 
 the House hearings. You will recall that the Indian appropriatioi 
 act of the current year authorized the construction of a hospital, an( 
 that hospital will be practically completed at the beginning of th^ 
 next fiscal year. We woidd like to ha\e an appropriation made t< 
 support that institution. 
 
 The CHAiRjrAN. There being no objection, it Avill be agreed to. 
 
 LA>"D LEASES, FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBEW. 
 
 jMr. Meritt. Here is an item that I should like to call to the atten 
 tion of Senator Owen that was included in our estimate. It reads a; 
 follows : 
 
 That no lease executed liy a meiubei- m- members of the Five Civilized Tribe 
 covering lands from wblch restrictions uimn alienation have not been removei 
 shall be \'alid, unless approved l)y the Secretary of the Interior or by som 
 officer located in the State of Oklahoma designated by him for that purpost 
 under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Inteiior may prescribe 
 
 That item is justified on page 269 of the House hearings. 
 
 Under existing law the allotted Indians of the Five Civilizec 
 Tribes are permitted to lease their surplus lands for a period of fivi 
 years without the approval of the department. Certain land specu 
 lators, taking advantage of that legislation, have gotten control of i 
 large- number of the allotments of the Indians, and are piling on^ 
 lease upon another. It is practically impossible for us in certaii 
 cases to sell the land of the Indian because the leases are plastere( 
 on the land as soon as it is offered for sale. 
 
 Senator Owen. Then you have found, in effect, that that five-yea 
 provision, instead of acting as it was intended to act, as a means o 
 educating the Indian with regard to the value of the land, that the; 
 seem to be incapable of education, and are being imposed upon b; 
 such leases? . 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They are being imposed upon, and seriously. Thi 
 legislation would be very helpful in protecting the interests of th 
 full-blood members of the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think there is considerable force in that sug 
 gestion. I think also, though, the plan which the department at 
 tempted to carry out some years ago of having those leases com 
 up here to be passed upon proved to be perfectly impracticable anc 
 simply resulted in no use of the land under any legal arrangement. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. You will note that in this item we have provide( 
 that all leases shall be approved liy some officer located in the Stat 
 
 of Oklahoma. . , , , ^i i 
 
 Senator Owen. I think if vou had it m the county where the lani 
 
 is, it would be all right. x i • ^ 
 
 Senator Robinson. That would make it necessary to designate a: 
 
 officer in every county. 
 
 Senator Owen. It would. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That is a pretty serious proposition 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; it is. Why could not the probate attorne; 
 in that county pass upon it? , , .^ • „„„„fv 
 
 Senator Robinson. If there is a probate attorney in every count} 
 
 all right. 
 
44 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owex. We hare appropriated $85,000 for these probate 
 
 attorneys. , . ^. o. ^.^ 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Would it not be corrected by msM-ting atter the 
 word "officer" the words "or by some officer or officers located m 
 the State of Oklahoma"? That would leave it discretionary with 
 the Secretary of the Interior as to whom he should designate. 
 
 Senator Owen. What I wanted to suggest was that it should be 
 localized so as to make it a practicable thing. When you have too 
 much red tape about this and refer it to headquarters they do not 
 want to get at the meat of the thing. The man ought to be right 
 down at the grass roots to pass on it, it seems to me. 
 
 Senator Robinson. But if you localize it too much, you may get 
 the man who has to pass on it so connected with the interests of the 
 man who wants to lease the land that the welfare of the Indian will 
 be lost sight of. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think he ought to be a Government servant. If 
 he is unfaithful, of course there ought to be some way of checking 
 him up. But you get it inefficient if you take it too far away from 
 the locality in which it is done. The man who passes upon this 
 matter ought to know about it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is true. He ought to know the land.. 
 
 Senator Owen. He ought to know the land, and he ought to be in 
 a position to pass upon it from his knowledge. 
 
 Senator Page. You think, Senator, that the jealousy that^exists 
 in regard to the administration of Indian affairs by the local probate 
 officer is unwarranted, do you? 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think there is any serious jealousy there. 
 Our probate judges are cooperating very well. Our legislature has 
 made it a felony to cloud a full-blood homestead. This charge that 
 Oklahoma is in collusion with fraud is entirely wrong. Of course 
 you will find in any great country where there are innumerable 
 estates many instances of willful, wicked fraud, but to stigmatize 
 the State with the idea that the people there are not disposed to 
 deal justly is not right, because the public sentiment is the same in 
 Oklahoma as it would be in your States or any other State. 
 
 Senator Page. But the interest of these Indians is so large that 
 the presumption seems to have been that politics has entered into 
 it, and that men are elected for that reason. 
 
 Senator Owen. It is a false presumption. In reality, the great 
 body of the people down there are Christian, honest. God-fearing 
 people. Of course, an individual will, because of some private in- 
 terest, depart from the rule of righteousness, but that must not be 
 used to stigmatize the public sentiment of any county in the State. 
 I think the worst county in the State was in that somewhat unin- 
 habited section down in the northeast corner. There the judge him- 
 self was guilty of collusion and fraud. He was put out of office by 
 the State of Oklahoma. 
 
 Senator Page. And suitably punished? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; he was exposed. We had the probate judges 
 called together in convention with the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affairs. They agreed upon a plan of adjustment. There is no dis- 
 position or public sentiment to do wrong. Public sentiment is on 
 the side of righteousness. There is no question in the world about it. 
 They do not want the Indian defrauded. And what Mr. Meritt 
 
INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 45 
 
 lays is true, I think, that these five-year leases have been used to the 
 lisadvantage of these people; that is, those of them that are inca- 
 jable of being educated, and I think there are some of that class, 
 ipparently. I should be quite willing to have this go in, but I 
 ;hink it should go in in such a form as to make it a more practicable 
 jlan. 
 
 The Chairman. If we deviate from the language which the Com- 
 nissioner has used in his estimate, are we not liable to run across 
 nany snags and meet difficulty with it in the Senate, and may lose it? 
 
 Senator Owen. AVhat is the language? I did not exactly" catch it. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. It reads : 
 
 That no lease executed by a member or members of tlie Five Civilized Tribes 
 covering lands from which restrictions upon alienation have not been removed 
 shall be valid, unless approved by the Secretary of the Interior or by some 
 jfflcer located in the State of Oklahoma designated by him for that i)urpose, 
 ander such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. 
 
 I suggested that we might incorporate, after the words " by some 
 officer," the words " or officers." That would enable the Secretary 
 of the Interior to designate a number of officers; for example, the 
 probate attorneys or district agents who are located in different 
 parts of eastern Oklahoma. 
 
 Senator Owen. Why could we not put in there " unless approved 
 by the Secretary of the Interior or by the probate attorney"? 1 
 think it ought to be a Government officer, since these lands are under 
 the control of the Government. What I want to obviate is the 
 miserable system which the Secretary of the Interior adopted some 
 years ago that proved to be utterly unworkable, by requiring these 
 leases to come back up here through the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affairs to the desk of the Secretary of the Interior for approval. 
 That is perfectly preposterous. That simply means that red tape 
 makes it impossible to arrive at any agreement. Here comes a fellow 
 along with a wagon from Iowa who wants to make a lease of five 
 years on a piece of land. With great difficulty he finds out where the 
 Indian is located and where the land is located. Then he enters 
 into a lease. He does not get down there until nearly the 1st ol 
 March. He comes down expecting to get land to work for thai 
 season. He might come in the middle of winter— January or Feb- 
 ruary—to get a piece of land. Then he makes a lease with the 
 Indian. It goes to the Secretary of the Interior for approval. II 
 is approved the following October. The man gets disappointed 
 He relies on it in a measure. He finds he is losmg out. When th( 
 crop season comes on he is getting nothing, and then he is driven tc 
 make such shift as he can. I thing we ought to rememlser the humar 
 aspect of this thing, remembering both sides of it, because tht 
 Indian's interest is inevitably bound up with t^e man who will tal« 
 this land and farm it. If the land is not farmed ^Y the renter th 
 Indian can not possibly get any money out of it. The lease ought 
 o be pasLd'on within Iflw daj^s. Otherwise the system -^ply tie. 
 the land of the Indian up just as bad as it is now I ^o not care 
 what the plan is, just so we can get some plan that will be practicable 
 S remember, perhaps, Mr. Meritt, what occurred here before tha 
 rule was established. You simply got nowhere at al Ihe people 
 could not get any leases approved withm any reasonable time. 
 
46 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. jSIeritt. I was going to say that the experience of the depart- 
 ment has demonstrated that what the Senator has said is absolutely 
 true, and if the legislation is adopted, as has been suggested, with 
 the inclusion of the words, " or officers in the State of Oklahoma, ' 
 we will localize this to the limit. 
 
 Senator Owen. But you do not localize it under the law, though. 
 I have had some experience with you gentlemen over there. I am 
 not willing to trust the department. I do not mean that discourte- 
 ously, but I mean to say that the red tape of the department is so 
 great that I am not willing to trust it in the matter of act- 
 ing within the necessary time. But I am perfectly willing to 
 put this in with the provision that these leases shall be passed on— 
 yea or nay — Avithin a certain number of days. If you then say no, the 
 "fellow who wanted to rent can go to some new place. But I am not 
 Avilling to have him come in and sit around on the community wait- 
 ing six months for the department to act. I want your action im- 
 mediate, so that he can tell whether to go on or stop. By the admin- 
 istration of the office the department has greatly impaired the value 
 of this property except in the oil, and there you have greatly stimu- 
 lated it, and there you are entitled to great credit for the develop- 
 ment of the oil fields there because I think your system has resulted 
 most beneficially. But as far as agriculture is concerned, the ad- 
 ministration has been ruinously bad. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We realize that the agricultural interests have been 
 subordinated to the oil interests in eastern Oklahoma. I think 
 there has been in the past considerable Government red tape in 
 Oklahoma, as well as throughout the Indian country, but I take a 
 great deal of pride in the work we have done in the last year in ex- 
 pediting business, especially on oil leases. When I took charge of the 
 desk of Assistant Commissioner I found oil leases pending in the 
 office that had been there for 60 or 90 days. I immediately insisted 
 that those oil leases, where there were no contests or complications, be 
 gotten through the department within 10 days after they left the 
 Indian Agency. I think the records will show that never before in 
 the history of the Indian service have leases been expedited as they 
 have recently. 
 
 Senator Owen. Let us come down to this agricultural business. 
 Senator Robinson, what do j^ou think would be tfie best way to get 
 at this so as to protect the fellow who is going to rent the land and 
 the Indian, too? 
 
 Senator Robinson. You may say " such officer or officers as may 
 be designated located as conveniently as may be to the lands." 
 
 Senator Owen. Do you think we should put in some provision that 
 the action upon an application shall be at a certain time, say, within 
 30 days? 
 
 Senator Robinson. There might be matters that he would want to 
 investigate about, but I think that 30 days is all right. 
 
 Senator Owen. If the department has a local man there, he could 
 act on it in 30 days, and then the fellow who is willing to take the 
 land and cultivate it will have some knowledge as to when he can get 
 action. I have seen the effect of this delay. It simply means ruina- 
 tion. I am not willing to have that country paralyzed in that way. 
 I am willing to do anything that can be clone to safeguard the Indian 
 allottees against improvident contracts. 
 
tn Mv'^MLT.t''-''" ■^^•''""f .*° "'^ "'-''* *^^^ P^'o**^^* you ai-e making no^ 
 
 Senator Oweiv. Mr. Meritt is not to blame about it. The Unitec 
 States Government is a great big machine; a tremendous big cumber 
 some machine. ^ ^uinuei 
 
 Senator Eobinson. And it works mighty slowly sometimes. 
 Senator Owen. So slowly that it is ruinous to the very interests 
 they would care to conserve. Here are 290 people down in tha 
 
 Ji^Srr "?'"l W^'^^I fy *° ""''■ ^^•^^•^t* w'lll Lver Jeach then 
 on earth, and what I might say to them if I could ever reach them 
 by voice might never have any permanent effect. What I thint 
 would have a permanent effect is to put something in this statute 
 
 :?isi;Lrefficient '"'"^ ''''' ^^^^^^ ^^"^ '' "^^^^^ '"^^ 
 
 Senator Page. I doubt if you can have any regulation that can 
 limit the administration to a certain investigation in a 30-days' 
 period that would not operate to create oftentimes an impossibility 
 
 Senator Owen. It is better to have the thing not done at all than 
 to have the man who comes in there and wants to rent a piece of land 
 sit there tor week after week and month after month until his family 
 IS on the streets. That is what has occurred before with the depart- 
 ment when they had this proposed system of approving land leases 
 1 venture to say the Indian Office has never approved an agricultural 
 lease, and you have the authority to do so on the homesteads. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Oh, yes; we approve agricultural leases on home- 
 steads, but it is a rare occasion. 
 
 Senator Owen. It is a rare occasion. How long does it take to get 
 me approved? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. It does take some time, Senator. 
 
 Senator Owen. It means an impracticable system. Mr. Meritt, I 
 im willing to agree to any plan that will protect these people, but 
 [ do want it to be a practicable plan that will really enable the man 
 ffho wants to rent the land to get action within a certain specified 
 ;ime. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, I would see no objection to a pro- 
 dso on this item along the lines suggested by Senator Owen. 
 
 Senator Owen. Suppose you try to draw up something along that 
 ine and submit it to the committee at its next meeting. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I want to say that I am heartily in sympathy with 
 he idea you have developed, and it is one of the things we have 
 leen working in the office to do — to eliminate so much red tape and 
 get prompt action — but, as you say, the laws and regulations are 
 omewhat complicated and it is disheartening sometimes to get things 
 hrough as promptly as we would like. 
 
 Senator Owen. You can not do it unless you have got the sys- 
 em automatically working. If it has got to pass back under the 
 eries of rules and regulations, and so forth, it means that some 
 f the law clerks of the bureau will sit down and show their vast 
 earning by writing regulations as long as the Mosaic code, which 
 ; is impossible for any ordinary, wayfaring man to carry out 
 'ithin any reasonable time. I know the system just as well as I 
 now you personally. I loiow it better, because I have been deal- 
 
48 INDIASr AFPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 ing.with that department for 30 years, and I know their method. 
 If we can put a time limit on this matter so that the fellow who 
 comes in there and wants to rent a piece of this land can know 
 what you are going to do, yes or no, then we can put the responsi- 
 bility on you of saying no. .„ , •, -^ . i.u „ 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I will draft an item and will submit it to the com- 
 mittee at the next meeting. ,., ,r n 
 
 The Chaikman. Tlien we will pass it over until Monday morn- 
 ing. 
 
 Senator Lane. Was this rejected by the House? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That was left out by the House. 
 
 Senator Lane. Why? . , i • 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They did not give any reason m the hearings, or 
 on the floor of the House that I recall. 
 
 Senator Owen. The committee left it out? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Kappler, who is present, was the secretary 
 of this committee some years ago. He is in here on his own account 
 and has a suggestion that he wants to make with regard to an item 
 which we have passed. 
 
 The Chaieman. You will file that in writing. The committee 
 has concluded not to hear anybody. 
 
 Mr. Kapplee. I have filed it. I think it is something you will 
 readily agree to. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I should like to have an opportunity to take that 
 amendment to the office for consideration. 
 
 The Chaiejman. You will look into that and let us know about 
 it Monday? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Kappler, we will give that attention. 
 
 HENRY KENDALL COLLEGE. 
 
 Senator Owen. There is one item that I want to call to the 
 attention of the committee. That is in regard to an appropriation 
 of $10,000 from the Creek funds to go to the Henry Kendall Col- 
 lege. The Henry Kendall College in 1880 began an educational 
 work at its own expense among the Creek Indians. They had 
 their headquarters at Muskogee. Gabe Parker was one of the 
 young men educated there. In fact he got all the education he 
 has there. That is the man who is now Commissioner to the Five 
 Civilized Tribes. These people for a long period of time con- 
 tributed out of their own funds. They were not supported by the 
 Government, I understand. They built up a valuable school there. 
 Then they moved it from downtown, where it was, right within 
 a couple of blocks of a railway station, out about a half or three- 
 quarters of a mile out. They were given certain lands out there 
 which were regarded as belonging to the Henry Kendall College. 
 Afterwards, when the town was surveyed and laid off, the Henry 
 Kendall College people wanted to move out still farther and dis- 
 pose of the lands they had. There was some rivalry between the 
 towns of Muskogee and Tulsa as to who should retain this school. 
 Tulsa got it by making a contribution. So the school was re- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 4S 
 
 moved from Muskogee to Tulsa. The land which the Henrji 
 Kendall College had, I think about 20 acres, was divided up hy 
 them into town lots and offered for sale. They then made a con- 
 tract to sell these town lots to a company there for $100,000, the 
 20 acres which they had held for all those years. They were going 
 to reinvest that money in the school and carry on the same work in 
 the Creek Nation at Tulsa that they had carried on before. 
 
 In other words, this money that they would get would go righi 
 back into the education of the Cieek children. In the meantime the 
 Creek Nation had made a contract with Mr. Mott and Mr. Sturdevan< 
 in St. Louis that they might recover 10 per cent of any recoveries 
 they could make on account of the town lots. A technical case wa£ 
 made out against the school on the ground that they had no righ< 
 to convert these lands into town lots and dispose of them. The 
 school authorities who. of course, were people who did not live 
 there, who were merely benevolent men who are engaged in a charity 
 paid the amount Avhich was demanded of them, $10,000, and out ol 
 it, of course, the 10 per cent was paid to the attorneys who cause 
 that to be done. The church people were always aggrieved by H 
 because it seemed to put them in the attitude of trying to do some 
 thtug in the nature of speculation, or something unjust in regarc 
 to this matter. And since it was purely a matter of charity the;^ 
 were never content to leave it in that condition where they woulc 
 appear upon the permanent records of the Government as trying te 
 speculate in Indian land. In point of fact, they had been giving 
 their money to charity for the benefit of these Indians. For thai 
 reason I think it would be entirely right for the Creek Nation thai 
 got this money to repay the money to this Henry Kendall CoUeg* 
 Board of Missions, and I introduced a proposal to that effect. 
 
 The Chairman. It is page 209 of our calendar. 
 
 Senator Lane. Did it go to the House committee? Was it befor( 
 the House committee ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think it was presented. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I do not think I understand this, Senatoi 
 Owen. Did these trustees pay $10,000 of their own funds? 
 
 Senator Owen. No; thev simply paid $10,000 out of the $100,00( 
 which they had contracted to sell this land for. They sold the lane 
 for $100,000, to be reinvested in the Tulsa school for the benefit o 
 
 the Creek Nation. ^^r^r^r^f^l. -j 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Whom did they pay the $10,000 to ^ 
 Senator Owen. They paid it to the Creek Nation. I have th 
 whole record here. It is somewhat voluminous, but 1 should liRe t( 
 put it in the record for the information of the committee. 
 The Chairman. That will be done. 
 
 Senator Owen. Here are the sworn statements of the parties— Mi 
 Hall, for instance, Mr. Ealph J Lamb, President Synod of Okla 
 homa of the Presbyterian Church, and a letter to Mr C. H. Nicho 
 son, the president of the board of trustees of the Henry Kenda] 
 Col ege, signed by Mr. John Adams, ex-member of the Muskoge 
 Town Site Commission, a copy of the statement of Mr. Harvey Olir 
 treasurer of the Board of Home Missions of the Presbyteria, 
 
 S2S!:'.:i — VOL 1 — 15 4 
 
50 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Church in the United States of America, and also the suit that was 
 
 brought against them. , • . ji, „ „^^r.nT,t 
 
 Semtor EoBiKSON. This suit was brought against them on account 
 
 of the Creek Tribe, and a recovery of $10,000 was had. 
 
 Senator Owei^. They just simply conceded what was called tor m 
 
 order to buy their peace. . x n +„ u„„ 
 
 Senator Robinson. 1 do not like that amendment at all— to buy 
 their peace. There was a case where the whole matter could have 
 been litigated and determined. If they compromised it, that is all 
 right. That is just taking out of one hand and putting into the 
 other, so far as the tribe is concerned. There must have been some 
 ground of action alleged in the suit, or otherwise they would not 
 have compromised it. . 1 1 ,•, j. 
 
 Senator Owen. Then, if you will permit me, I would like to pre- 
 sent the matter more fully, because obviously I have not done it at 
 all well. The church trustees had their sale for $100,000 tied up 
 by the suit when they vitally needed the funds for their new build- 
 ings at Tulsa, so they bought off the suit in order to get the $90,000 
 remaining. 
 
 Senator Page. Is that something that is a proper part of an ap- 
 propriation bill? 
 
 Senator Owen. Certainly it is, because we have entire control of 
 the Creek funds. 
 
 Senator Page. No estimate has been made for it ? 
 
 Senator Owen. No. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Senator, I believe we had better take it up at 
 the next hearing. 
 
 Senator Owen. All right, but in the meantime I ask to put it in 
 the record so that it will be more conveniently available. 
 
 The Chairman. It may be inserted. 
 
 The statement referred to with regard to the property of the 
 Henry Kendall College is as follows : 
 
 STATEMENT WITH REGARD TO PROPERTY OF HENRY KENDAXL COIIEGE 
 
 AT MUSKOGEE, OKLA. 
 
 The Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church in the United 
 States of America began educational work at Musliogee soon after the year 
 1880. For a considerable time they educated a number of Indian children there 
 jmd made almost the only provision which could be made for the education 
 of the children of white people residing in the town. In 1894 this work had 
 grown so far that the authorities of the church throughout Indian and Okla- 
 homa Territories appealed to the Board of Home Missions which was sus- 
 taining the work to organize it as a college. This was done and the name 
 Henry Kendall College adopted. In the spring of 1898 Rev. W. E. King, being 
 at that time president of the college, a proposal was made that its building 
 should be removed. They had occupied, up to that time, about 3 acres of land 
 in what is now the very heart of the city of Muskogee. The citizens were 
 anxious at the time to provide a location for a building to be used by the Com- 
 mission to the Five Civilized Tribes, commonly known as the Dawes Com- 
 mission. Indian citizens owning property In the heart of the town were un- 
 willing to sell a suitable site and the one means of securing the location for 
 the commission seemed to be the use of the old property of Henry Kendall 
 College. 
 
 Previous to this the Hon. Pleasant Porter, chief of the Creek Nation, had 
 repeatedly expressed his purpose of giving, as soon as the law enabled him to 
 do so, a large piece of land near Muskogee for the purposes of the college. 
 He, in partnership with Mr. C. W. Turner, hnd held as a pasture a large tract 
 
f tacl of ^'anV^1"mo? "'t"'''^ '" ^"^"' ^^ "^■^'■«^' 'f ^^'' •^^•'"•01 ^l^^uld be moy< 
 
 ,, — jy"^6 .,.c>r= uinew.i.vB were made jicross it in different direcHon^! m 
 
 timw wbat the 25 acres given it could be sold for "^ *^' 
 
 In 1,^8 the so-called Curtis Act w.is passed, which provided for the appoin 
 
 ment of town-site commissions and the sale of property in the townl to tho° 
 
 who had secured tne ri.sht of occupancy from Indian citizens at one-half 11 
 
 Kufcos? 10 nc1e^";;'f°"/^ 'I' °"'"'^ ''''' proposed V give absolute 
 without cost 10 acres ot land to Henry Kendall College and a number c 
 
 n?i« ''w^'' ^r^ ^\T 1° ^"^'^ "° 1°"« "^ ^^^y ^'^"""i be used for school pu 
 looses \^hen the Muskogee Town-site Commission look up the matter c 
 
 fn^Trf^hl^'.^' 'T'Z'^ °' '^\?'*y °* :d.uskogee they suggested settTng apa 
 land m this w.,y for the use of Henry Kendall (toUege. The position was take 
 by the management of the college that it did not wish to take any land as 
 free gift. It asked the privilege of paying whatever might be deemed to be 
 proper price for this land, as it was thought that with the valuable building 
 upon It. it would not be at all a wise business policy to hold it with only 
 conditional title. Thus, the town-site commission attempted to compromise th 
 matter by allotting to Henry Kendiill College about two-thirds of the lam 
 which had been given them and appnusiug it upon just tlie same scale as th 
 surrounding residence property. The balance of the 25 acres of land the con] 
 mission scheduled as a city park, for which the city should have had to pay a 
 the rate of .?20 an acre. 
 
 The management of the college protested against this and represented th: 
 difficulty in which they were placed to the Hon. Pleasant Porter, chief of th- 
 Creek Nation, and others. They are satisfied that this led to the adoption o 
 a clause in the Creek agreement of 1901 by which Henry Kendall College wai 
 given the right to purchase the land It then occupied at one-half its appralsec 
 value. As this agreement was published at just the same time that the repor 
 of the town-site commissioners was made public, the matter was taken u] 
 vrith these commissioners again on the basis of the Creek agreement, whicl 
 had been ratified and thus had become an act of Congress. The commissioi 
 raised the difficulty that, having scheduled a part of the land to the city foi 
 a park they could not, without some relinquishment of such claim as thai 
 scheduled might be considered to give the city, change the disposition of thai 
 tract of land. The matter was taken up in the city council and a resolutiot 
 was passed that the city relinquished all right or title it might be consldereo 
 to have in this property on account of Its being scheduled to them by the 
 town-site commissioners. It was then pointed out that the Creek Nation, 
 under the appraisement made, could get more than three times as much foi 
 this piece of property from the trustees of Henry Kendall College as thej 
 would from the city for park purposes. The commissioners were understood 
 to have forwarded a statement of the whole matter to the Department of the 
 Interior and received instructions to schedule the entire 25 acres to Henry 
 Kendall College. This was done and in due course the property was paid for 
 at one-half the appraised value, and deeds to the city lots included in this land 
 were sent to the Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church in the 
 United States of America, as trustees for the college. 
 
 For six years absolutely no question was raised as to the validity and pro- 
 priety of this deed, but early in 1907 suit was brought against the said 
 Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church in the United States of 
 America to set aeide their title to this land and make them relinquish that part 
 of it which had been at first scheduled as a city park. This suit followed 
 immediately upon the movement to change the location of Henry Kendall 
 
52 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 College. Since its foundation this college had I'f '^„«"PP°'"'„f,,^y ^l^eTica 
 of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church in the ^^mtedSates of America 
 at very heavy expense. They felt justified m the ^^^F i" /^^^^^.'^y °f ™di 
 intrusted to them for missionary purposes, because o^^^^^^.f P ^^^^ g^'o^^^^^^^ 
 tlons which had prevailed in the Indian Territory ![,liff ^^?l*/„^'='' The%o^rd 
 make no provision by taxing for the education of their f^ldren J^'ejoara 
 felt that with the advent of statehood their justification foj^^his expenditure 
 of missionary funds was taken away, '-^^dt^ey asked the Synod of Oklah^^^^^ 
 which included the Presbyterian Churches of both Oklahoma and Inman 
 Territories, to accept the Muskogee property and provide for tbe further sup- 
 port of the school. In offering to make over the property the board stipulated 
 that if it were not used for the purposes of the college but were disposed of, 
 the entire proceeds of the property should only be used for the endowment of 
 the college The board also stipulated that Henry Kendall College should be 
 continued as an institution of learning within the new State which should 
 be open to students of Indian blood upon exactly the same conditions as it was 
 to white children. . , „ ^, .» ii. 
 
 The trustees aiipointed by the synod of Oklahoma to provide for the further 
 support of the work of Henry Kendall Oollpge found that with the entire loss 
 of income from the board and with no endowment funds it would be absolutely 
 impossible to maintain It at Muskogee. They were offered another site, with 
 an adequate group of buildini^'s, within the boundaries of the Creek Nation upon 
 the condition that thi-v would move the college to the city of Tulsa. As it 
 seemed to be a choice of doins this and securing the beginning of an endowment 
 by the sale of the Mu.'^koKee property or closing the college altogether, it seemed 
 to them in the interests of education generally and in the interest, particularly 
 of Creek and other Indian children, that this removal should be made. 
 
 It was just when this was decided that suit was brought to set aside the title 
 to the property given to the Board of Home Jlissions of the Presbyterian Church 
 in the United'states of America by the Government. The special attorneys en- 
 gaged with the Creek attorneys on the prosecution of this suit did not seem 
 anxious to bring the matter into court and get the case decided. The fact that 
 this suit was pending made it imjiossible for the trustees of the college to make 
 any satisfactory disposition of the property. Thus during the past year the 
 college was altogether deprived of income from this source. Feeling that to be 
 longer kept from this revenue would be disastrous to the work of the college, 
 the said trustees arranged to meet with Mr. Sturdevant, special attorney repre- 
 senting the Go^el■nment in this case, and discuss the matter with him. This 
 meeting took place on August 29, 1908. Mr. Sturdevant took the ground that 
 the Ci'eek agreement which gave the right of purchase of land at- that time 
 (1901) occupied by Ilcniy Kendall College could not mean the land actually 
 occupied, but the land which might have been occupied as a free gift under the 
 Curtis Act, so that there could not have been purchased for Henr.v Kendall 
 College more than 10 .acres of land. In spite of this he proposed to concede 
 their title to a little over t^vo-thirds of the land and asked them to return to 
 the Creek Nation the title to the balance. 
 
 Bev. A. G. Evans, president of the college from 1889 to June, 1908, was present 
 at this interview, because he had been familiar with all the transactions in 
 connection with this matter. Mr. J. M. Hall, of Tulsa, Okla., a member of the 
 said board of trustees, was also present. It was asked what assurance could 
 be given if a Government deed was to be set aside now that a deed to anything 
 more than the 10 acres of land, based only upon the compromise which the attor- 
 ney proposing it said he believed was not In accordance with the letter of the law, 
 would give that further question should not be raised as to the title to this 
 property. Apparently the attorney could only give assurance of his personal 
 belief that if the trustees compromised satisfactorily to him there would be no 
 further trouble as to the title. The trustees absolutely refused to consider the 
 matter of relinquishing any of the land that they had held, but Mr. Sturdevant 
 stated that even If they should get a first decision favorable to them he would 
 keep them in the courts at least three years before the matter could be finally 
 settled. 
 
 Mr. Sturdevant insisted that no other settlement would be considered, and 
 the said trustees felt that in view of the fact that it would involve a total loss 
 of revenue to the college they were not in any position to compromise, and the 
 matter was left in this way. 
 
 It would seem from this statement that a title given after due investigation 
 by a commission representing the Government and allowed to stand for six years 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 5- 
 
 without question has been called iu question only for tlie purpose of securini 
 a return of some money and not at all for the purpose of really establishlni 
 the correctness of the position in law assumed by the attorneys. 
 
 It will be seen that the board of home missions of the Tresbyterian Churcl 
 has done a work for the residents of Indian Territory, and especially for th( 
 citizens of the Creek Nation, which has meant an expenditure of sever:!l timei 
 even the present value of the whole property. It will be seen that in 1898 thej 
 relinquished for the benefit of the city of Miiskotree and of the Creek Natioi 
 quite as much as for their own convenience, a property, their right of occupancj 
 to which was unqnestioned. which has become several times more valnalile thai 
 the property which was g-iven to them instead. It will be seen that thej 
 offered to pay whatever was required to the Go^•ernment for the Creek Natioi 
 so as to secure a perfect title to their new propertj- at iIusko;,'t.e. The appraise 
 meut was made, as stated l>y the town-site cummi.ssion and upon the same basis 
 and at the same rate iier front foot as the adjacent property, so that the hah 
 appraisement which was paid amounted to over $60 an acre, which was n gooc 
 price for the land in that vicinity at that time. 
 
 The removal of the college to that site, which was then half u mile bej'onc 
 the town limits of Muskogee, led to a general movement in that direction an(3 
 undoubtedly created a large part of the values for which the Creek Nation waf 
 paid on account of lots iu that part of the city. It will be further seen that ir 
 disposing of this property the mission board and the Synod of Oklahoma tooli 
 care to arrange for carrying on the work of the school within the boundaries 
 of the Creek Nation, provided fully that it should always be available for t^reeli 
 as well as other Indian children, and tliat no part of the proceeds of the propertj 
 could be used for anything else except the endowment of this school. 
 
 When it is considered further that the only alternative \Ahich would have 
 been possible after the survey by the town-site commission would have been th« 
 setting apart of a piece of this land as a public park for which the Creek Natioi 
 would only have received $20 per acre, it is impossible to conceive how the 
 Creek Nation has done anything else except gain enormously from the occupa- 
 tion of this land by Henry Kendall College and the work it has done there. 
 
 The Hon. Pleasant Porter, before his death, stated many times that it was 
 Ms personal intention and the undoubted purpose of the Creek Nation com- 
 missioners in the Creek treaty of 1901 that the board of home missions of th« 
 Presbyterian Church should be allowed to purchase all the land they were ther 
 occupying, which occupancy was indicated by the one fence which inclosed th« 
 whole of it. 
 
 Attached to this you will find affidavits of Mr. Evans and Mr. Hall as to this 
 interview, and also copy of a statement from Mr. John Adams, as a member ol 
 the Muskogee town-site commission; also a copy of statement by Harvey C 
 Olin, treasurer of the Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church in the 
 United States of America, and statement with affidavit of Ralph J. Lamb, presi- 
 dent of the Synod of Oklahoma, an incorporation. 
 
 [SEAL ] J- -^- ^- OGLEVEE, 
 
 Secretary Synod of Olclahoma. 
 Pawhuska, Okla., January 26, 1911. 
 
 [N THE Matter or Kendall College Claim fob Retuen of Compromise Monet 
 
 I, Arthur Grant Evans, was present at a meeting with W. H. Sturdevant 
 it Muskogee, Okla., on August 29, 1908. 
 
 Our obiect in calling on Mr. Sturdevant was to try and make a settlemenl 
 Df the claim that the Government had instituted against Kendall College ol 
 fraudulently claiming more land than it was entitled to. We were familiar 
 ^ith the ca^se and klew that the claim of the Government at that time was 
 based on a new interpretation of the law. About six years previous the college 
 Sad obtained title to the property by a deed from the Creek Nation. The 
 "rounds had been appropriated to the college by the town-site commission, 
 S was appointed by the Secretary of the Interior and their action was 
 rnnroved bv the Secretary of the Interior, and the deed was given to the 
 oneglby Chief Pleasant Sorter of the Creek Nation. The Presbyterian board 
 S had bein doing missionary work in the Indian Territory for the pas 
 To years or more, disbursing large sums of money without the expectation of 
 
54 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 the return of any part of it, were notified about six years after they obtained 
 deed to the land that they had obtained a portion of the land by fraud. 
 
 The Presbyterian board had about two years ago determined to withdraw 
 from school work of the character that Kendall College was doing and they 
 made the proposition to Synod of the Presbyterian Church of Oklahoma and 
 Indian Territory to give to the city making the largest provision for main- 
 taining the school all the property in and interest belonging to the college at 
 Muskogee as an annuity, imposing the conditions that the college should be 
 conducted as a Presbyterian school, and that Indian children should be always 
 admitted to the school and have same treatment as white children. 
 
 Tulsa made the most liberal offer for the college, and being in the groundB 
 of the Creek territory, the school was removed to that city. 
 
 In our interview with Mr. Sturdevant, representing the Government, we 
 insisted that some arrangement be made to have the case come to trial by the 
 courts without delay. Mr. Sturdevant replied that he could not get the case 
 before the coming January, and that it would probably not be decided for 
 three years, as it would be carried to a higher court should the trial court 
 decide adverse to his claims. 
 
 The college being deprived largely of the support of the Presbyterian board 
 was in position where it must have the support at once. The managers had an 
 offer for the property at Muskogee which gave them an income of $7,000 per 
 year just as soon as they could make a good title to the property. 
 
 In order to keep the school going, and owing to the uncertainty as to the 
 time when it could be settled by the courts, they decided to pay the .$10,000 
 for the Government withdrawing the suit so the school could be continued, 
 believing that the Government would have the money refunded when the 
 matter was properly before it. In the offer for the Kendall property if the 
 same was perfected in six mouths, the parties purchasing were to pay all taxes 
 or charges for sidewalks and paving. 
 
 Abthur Grant Evans. 
 State of Oklahoma, Washington County, ss: 
 
 A. Grant Evans, being first duly sworn upon oath, deposes and says that 
 the foregoing is a true and correct statement, and further affiant sayeth not. 
 Witness my hand and notarial seal this 25th day of January, 1911. 
 [SEAL.] Erebtt R. Newbt, Notufy PuUic. 
 
 My commission expires January 18, 1913. 
 
 In the Matter of Kendall College Claim for Return of Compromise Money. 
 
 I, J. M. Hall, was present at a meeting with W. H. Sturdevant at Muskogee, 
 3kla., on August 29, 1908. 
 
 Our object in calling on Mr. Sturdevant was to try and make a settlement of 
 ;he claim that the Government had institued agains Kendall College of fradu- 
 ently claiming more land than it was entitled to. We were familiar with the 
 lase and knew that the claim of the Government at that time was based on a 
 lew merpretation of the law. About six years previous the college had obtained 
 itle to the property by a deed from the Creek Nation. The grounds had been 
 ippropnated to the college by the town-site commission, which was appointed 
 ly the Secretary of the Interior, and their action was approved by the Secre- 
 ary of the Interior, and the deed was given to the college by Chief Pleasant 
 'orter, of the Creek Nation. The Presbyterian board which had been doing 
 aissionary work in the Indian Territory for the past 50 years or more, dis- 
 lursmg large sums of money without the expectation of the return of any part 
 f it, were notified about six years after they obtained deed to the land that 
 hey had obtained a portion of the land by fraud. 
 
 The Presbyterian board had about two years ago determined to withdraw 
 rom school work of the character that Kendall College was doing and they 
 lade the proposition to Synod of the Presbyterian Church of Oklahoma and 
 ndian Territory to give to the city making the largest provision for maintain- 
 Qg the school all the property in and interest belonging to the college at Musko- 
 ee, as an annuity, imposing the conditions that the college should be conducted 
 s a Presbyterian school, and that Indian children should be always admitted 
 the school and have same treatment as white children. 
 
 Tulsa made the most liberal offer for the college, and being in the ground's of 
 be Creek territory, the school was removed to that city. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 5, 
 
 In our interview witli Mr. Sturdevaut, representing the Government, w 
 Insisted that some arrangement be made to move the case come to trial bv th 
 courts without delay. Mr. Sturdevant replied that he could not get the cas 
 before the coming January, and that it- would probably not be decided for thre 
 years, as it would be carried to a higher court should the trial court decld 
 adverse to his claims. 
 
 The college being deprived largely of the support of the Presbyterial boarc 
 was in position where It must have the support at once. The managers ha( 
 an offer for the property at Muskogee which gave them an income of $7 000 nei 
 year just as soon as they could make a good title to the property 
 
 In order to keep the school going and owing to the uncertainty as to the tim( 
 when It could be settled by the courts, they decided to pay the $10,000 for the 
 Government withdrawing the suit, so the school could be continued, believinj 
 that the Government would have the money refunded when the matter was 
 properly before it. In the offer for the Kendall property if the same was per 
 fected m six months the parties purchasing were to pay all taxes or charges foi 
 sidewalks and paving. " 
 
 _ J. M. IIAIX. 
 
 State op Oklahoma, 
 
 Washington County, ss: 
 J. M. Hall, being first duly sworn, upon oath deposes and says that the fore- 
 roing is a true and correct statement, and further afBant sayeth not 
 Witness my hand and notarial seal this 21st day of January, 1911. 
 fsEAL.] J). F. Pettus, Notary PuUic. 
 
 My commission expires September 12, 1912. 
 
 iTATEMENT OF RALPH J. LAMB. PRESIDENT OF THE SYNOD OF OKLAHOMA OP THE 
 PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AN INCORPOBATION 
 UNDER THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA. 
 
 At the time that the board of home missions of the Presbyterian Church 
 Q the United States of America deeded its property at Muskogee, Okla., to 
 he synod of Oklahoma, the trustees of the synod were directed to receive the 
 ame, together with the suit then pending and carry the matter to a final 
 ettlement. In pursuance of this, after efforts had been made by different 
 aembers of the trustees of the college to arrange such settlement with the 
 ttorneys for the Government and for the Creek Nation, on September in, 
 90S, I, as president of the synod of Oklahoma, had an interview with Mr. 
 V. H. Sturdevant, special counsel for the United States, in the office of M. 
 /. Mott, attorney for the Creek Nation at Muskogee, Okla., with the view of 
 ffectlng a compromise, if such were possible, the reasons for this being that 
 tie college, on account of the suit, was unable to dispose of the property, and 
 Dnsequently lost all revenue upon which it depended for its support. Mr. 
 turdevant in the course of this interview at first refused to consider any 
 sttlement whatever, but upon my explaining to him of the condition of 
 ffairs, also the terms upon which the property was held, and further, the 
 greement binding the synod to the board of home missions that for all times 
 :udents of Indian blood should be admitted to the benefits of the college on 
 ilfillment of the literary requirements, he finally agreed to consider terms of 
 sttlement. 
 
 His proposition to me first was that if we would vacate the 10 acres nearest 
 ) the town we should be given clear title to the remaining 15 acres. I refused 
 tisoluely to consider any settlement that involved abandonment of property, 
 'uring the course of the day we had several interviews. Finally he asked me 
 hat I woul offer. I said, " $5,000." This he indignantly refused and after- 
 ards I offered him $10,000. This he accepted (as see copy of agreement at- 
 Lched), he to go into the Federal court and 'bring the matter to a final con- 
 usion (a copy of the decision of the court in said proceedings herein appended). 
 
 We did not feel that this was in any sense of the word a just settlement of 
 lis matter, but on account of the continued loss to the college on this account. 
 Id also the fact that the city of Muskogee had ordered the opening of streets. 
 ying of sidewalks, paving of the streets, laying of sewers, etc., through the 
 •operty, and also that the property was now subject to taxation, and 
 irther Mr. Sturdevant's positive statement that if a decision of the local 
 urts was against him the case would be taken to the higher courts and finally 
 
J6 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 to the Supreme Court of the United States ^{j^f^Z^^-J^^^^Z tL^'llueH 
 probable future litigation and the large loss that Y°'!l'^,rwo was to affert 
 jy this continued delay, I felt that the best immediate thing to do was to anect 
 
 nir's'SirvInt was very emphatic in Ms statement that no stle-ent^w^^^^^ 
 he accepted by which the Creek Nation did not secure his Pr"Pei ty, esc^P™g 
 by a decision oT the Supreme Court. Under these ci^c'imstance^ ^'o was to 
 readily seen that for immediate relief the only thing that we could do w^s to 
 effect this compromise, and for this reason this was done and the agreement 
 (as per copy attached) signed. The $10,000 was paid to said Sturdevant and 
 
 'X^f L^ZttTeTttorS for the Creek Nation, was not present during all 
 of this interview; he being absent from the city, but returned m the evening, 
 was made aware of all the circumstances, and signed said agreement. 
 
 Ralph J. lamb, 
 President Synod of Oklahoma. 
 State of Oklahoma, Washington County, ss. : 
 
 Kalph J Lamb, being first duly sworn upon oath, deposes and says : That the 
 foregoing is a true and correct statement and further affiant sayeth not. 
 
 Witness my hand and notarial seal this 20th day of January, 1911. 
 
 Ffii-iT 1 E. L. Harnett, 
 
 i-^^^-i Notary PuUic. 
 
 My commission expires November 26, 1911. 
 
 Muskogee, Ind. T., May 5, 1909. 
 
 Hon. C. H. Nicholson, 
 
 President Board of Trustees of Henry Kendall College, Tulsa, Olcla. 
 
 Deab Sir: Mr. A. W. Robb handed me your letter of January 30, 1909, 
 addressed to myself and Benjamin Marshall, ex-members of the Muskogee 
 Town-Site Commission. 
 
 In substance you state that the management of Henry Kendall College has 
 been charged with fraud in procuring title to the ground occupied by them. 
 Xou ask that we make a statement as to our interpretation of the law which 
 governed in our decision at the time of scheduling this land, and whether our 
 decision was the unanimous decision of the town-site commission; if the 
 Secretary of the Interior approved our award unqualifiedly, and whether or 
 not anyone connected with the college or grounds attempted to in any way 
 influence the commission. 
 
 In reply to the above it is necessai^y to go back to the time that the Muskogee 
 Town-Site Commission was organized in 1899 under an act of Congress (June 
 28, 1898) commonly known as the Curtis law. Prior to the Curtis law an 
 agreement had been reached between the United States Commission (Dawes 
 Commission) and delegates of the Creeks, subject to the ratification of the 
 Creek Council, but was rejected by the Creek Council. The Curtis law was 
 then enacted by Congress. 
 
 Under the Curtis law (sec. 20) it was provided — 
 
 " There shall also be reserved from allotment a suflicient amount of lands 
 now occupied by churches, schools, parsonages, charitable institutions, and 
 other public buildings for their present actual and necessary use, and no more, 
 not to exceed five acres," etc. 
 
 Inasmuch as the grounds occupied by the several colleges and schools occu- 
 ))!ed more ground than was allowed under this law, a portion of the Kendall 
 College ground was cut off and allotted to the town as a park, and designated 
 on a plat as Kendall Park, and under the law would belong to the city at $10 
 per acre. The Curtis law was so unsatisfactory to the Creek people that one of 
 the prominent Creek citizens, Judge N. B. Moore, brought proceedings in the 
 United States court, and an injunction was granted retraining the town-site 
 rommission from carrying out the provisions of the Curtis law. The Secretary 
 of the Interior thereupon furloughed the commission indefinitely, or pending 
 an agreement between the commissioners of the United States and the Creek 
 delegates, and again called the town-site commission together to complete the 
 work after the agreement was enacted into law and ratified by the Creek 
 council. I myself called the attention of some of the Creek delegates who 
 were treating with the United States commission to several matters which I 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 57 
 
 houglit should be corrected iu tlie Curtis law, one of wliicli was that the Ken- 
 lall College, Spauldiug Institute, and Nazareth Institute should be allowed 
 purchase the ground occupied by them on the same terms and at an appraised 
 ■alue equal to that oi surrounding property, pointing out to the Creek dele- 
 gates that these schools had secured the possessory right to their grounds long 
 )efore the Curtis law was passed ; that they needed all the ground occupied 
 )y tliem ; and that the Creek Nation would be benefited to the extent of 
 ■eceiving pay for all of the land occupied by them, as against 5 acres gratis 
 md $10 per acre for that part reserved as a park for the city. This sugges- 
 uon was adopted by the Creek delegates, and to cover the point the agreement 
 provided (Pub. 112, sec. 20) : 
 
 " That Henry Kendall College, Nazareth Institute, and Spaulding Institute, 
 n Muskogee, may purchase the parcels of ground occupied by them or which 
 may have been laid out for their use, and so designated upon the plat of said 
 town, at one-half their appraised value, upon conditions herein provided; and 
 all other schools and institutions of learning located in incorporated towns in 
 the Creek Nation may in like manner purchase the lots or parcels of land 
 sccupied by them." 
 
 Under our interpretation of the agreement (Pub. 112), which we had no 
 loubt was intended to cure an injustice of the Curtis law, in which the Creek 
 people had no voice, our schedule was prepared, the Kendall grounds appraised 
 at $3,381, our schedule approved by the Secretary of the Interior, and upon pay- 
 ment by the Presbyterian board of one-half of the appraisement, $1,690.50, deed 
 Cor same was executed by the principal chief of the Creek Nation and duly 
 approved by the Secretary of the Interior. No person ever to my knowledge 
 attempted to influence the town-site commission in their action, and I know of 
 no objection having been made by the United States or the Creek Nation lu 
 relation to the action of the town-site commission in the matter prior to the 
 suits brought by the United States for the benefit of the Creek Nation. The 
 action of the town-site commission was unanimous. 
 
 I would further state that the Muskogee town-site commission was super- 
 seded by the Creek town-site commission, who had several sittings in Muskogee 
 to correct any errors committed by their predecessors; and if they had found 
 the scheduling of this property was wrong, it was their duty to have taken the 
 matter up and adjust the same. 
 Tours, respectfully, 
 
 John Adams, 
 
 Ex-Member Muskogee Town-Site Commission. 
 
 The undersigned, Harvey C. Olin, deposes and says : That he is the treasure! 
 of the Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church m the Unitec 
 States of America; that the said board of home missions received from th( 
 United States Government a patent dated October 15, 1904, for lands m th; 
 city of Muskogee used and occupied as the site for " Henry Kendall College 
 and described as follows: n,,^ 4 in hinni 
 
 "All that piece or parcel of land known as as lots Nos. 1, 2, 3, and 4 m blocl 
 numbered 150 and all of block numbered 151 in the town of Muskogee, Mus 
 S (Creek) Nation, Indian Territory (now State of Oklahoma), except th( 
 fonowing-descrlhed property originally a part of the above-described lots au( 
 deedrd t! A T Kobb : All that part of lot 1, block 150, in the city of Muskogee 
 
 as shown t the authorized survey and map '^^ .^}^^^--^l,^Z"Ax^" hun°dTe( 
 "Beginning from the northwest corner of said lot 1 block 150, tNvo hundrec 
 feet iiian easterly direction along the north side of said lot 1, block 150 
 thence one hundred and fifty feet in a southerly direction and m a line par 
 aM to the west side of said lot 1, block 150; thence two hundred feet m i 
 
 ah^ld'eTcS S^d^eftoTe syrd'ofSkfahoma upoA certain condition. 
 which conditions are as follows : 
 
58 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 First. The synod shall, aud it hereby does, assume the defense of a suit in 
 equity brought by the United States of America for the Creek Nation against 
 the board and others, and does hereby covenant and agree that it will protect 
 and Indemnify the board against the said suit, against the claim therein made, 
 and against any other suit to be brought or claim to be made against the board 
 affecting the said property, and against all damages which may be asserted 
 against the board in any such suit or under any such claim. 
 
 Second. The said property may be conveyed by the synod to a college to be 
 Incorporated under the name of " Henry Kendall College," with a board of 
 trustees, of whom not less than two-thirds shall be Presbyterians in good stand- 
 ing, the number of trustees and their term of office to be prescribed by the 
 synod, and the trustees to become such with the approval, and only with the 
 ipproval, (if the synod ; the college to be located in the State of Oklahoma and 
 forever to be open to Indian youth of both sexes who show their ability to 
 meet such literary requirements as may be prescribed and who are of good 
 character: Provided, however, in such case that as part of and in consideration 
 jf such conveyance the synod will procure the college to execute a covenant for 
 iie protection of the board to the same effect as is hereinbefore prescribed. 
 
 Third. If the said property, or any part or parts thereof, shall be sold by the 
 synod, the proceeds shall be turned over to the college, and shall constitute an 
 ;ndowment, to be safely and permanently invested, regard being always had to 
 :he security of the investment rather than to the amount of interest the income 
 )f such endowment to be used by the trustees of the college to meet its current 
 jxpenses. 
 
 Fourth. The synod hereby coven:ints and agrees for itself on behalf of the 
 ;ollege, if the property shall be conveyed to the college, that should there be 
 my violation of the provisions herein contained on the part of the synod or of 
 ;he college, the property or so much thereof as shall remain and the proceeds of 
 my part which shall be sold shall immediately become the property of and be 
 :ransferred to the board for the 'V^'onian's Board of the said Board. 
 
 Fifth. For the performance of the foregoing provisions on the part of the 
 !ynod the property and the proceeds of any part which shall be sold are specifi- 
 ;ally bound and made liable, and the enforcement of this obligation may be re- 
 luired either by an action at law for damages or by injunction ; the intention 
 lereof being that whether the property or its proceeds shall be in the synod or 
 n the college it and they shall be absolutely devoted to the purposes herein- 
 )efore prescribed, and that the performance by the synod and by the college 
 nay be enforced in any manner known to the law. 
 
 Deponent further says that since the year 1894, when the said Henry Kendall 
 :!ollege was organized and established, it has expended for property and run- 
 ling expenses of the said college upward of $226,000. 
 
 n the Circuit Court of the United States for the Eastern District of Oklahoma. 
 
 'he United States of America for the use of the Creek Nation, complainant, vs. 
 The Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church of the United 
 States of America, a corporation, the Synod of Oklahoma of the Presbyterian 
 Church in the United States of America, P. Porter and O. W. Turner, de- 
 fendants. In equity. No. 526. 
 
 DKCEEE. 
 
 This cause came on to be heard at this term for final disposition, the com- 
 lamant being represented by its solicitors, W. L. Sturdivant, M. L. Mott, and 
 lerritt Eslick, and the defendants, the Board of Home Missions of the Presby- 
 jrian Church of the United States of America, a corporation, and the Synod 
 f Oklahoma of the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America, 
 
 corporation, by their solicitors, Soper, Huckleberry & Owen; whereupon, the 
 efendant, the Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church of the 
 Tnited States of America, by its said solicitors and with the consent of the 
 3urt, withdrew the motion heretofore filed in said cause to quash the service 
 lerein as to said defendant, and thereupon entered the voluntary appearance 
 f said defendant in said cause, and waived the issuance and service of sub- 
 cena therein, and, also by consent of court, said solicitors entered their ab- 
 earance as solicitors for the defendant, the Synod of Oklahoma of the Presby- 
 ;rian Church in the United States of America; and counsel for complainant 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 5< 
 
 ;lUi the consent of the court, dismissed said cause as to the defendants 
 '. Porter and C. W. Turner. 
 And upon consideration thereof, and by consent of counsel, it is ordered 
 djudged, and decreed as follows : That the title in fee simple to blocks Nos 
 50 and 151 in the city of Muskogee, Okla., and all the estate and interesl 
 herein be decreed vested in the defendant, the Synod of Oklahoma of th( 
 'resbyterian Church in the United States of America ; and that the complain 
 nt. United States of America, have and recover of and from said defendant 
 he Synod of Oklahoma of the Presbyterian Church in the United States o1 
 imerica. for the use of the Creek Nation, the sum of $10,000, and that said sun 
 e and is hereby decreed a first lien upon the said above described real estate 
 nd that complainant have execution therefor, and that this suit be dismissed 
 s to the Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church of the United 
 States of America, and that complainant pay the costs of this action. 
 
 Judge. 
 
 n the Circuit Court of the United States for the Eastern District of Oklahoma 
 
 'he United States of America for the use of the Creek Nation, complainant, 
 V. The Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church of the United 
 States of America, a corporation, P. Porter and C. W. Turner, defendants 
 In equity, No. 526. 
 
 This cause came on to be heard at this term on motion of the Synod ol 
 )klahoma of the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America by Its 
 olicitors, Sopers, Huckleberry & Owen, and the court being fully advised li 
 he premises, finds that said motion should be granted. 
 
 It is, therefore, ordered and decreed that the said the Synod of Oklahoma 
 f the Presbyterian Church In the United States of America be, and is hereby, 
 lecreed to be a party defendant in said suit with all the rights of a partj 
 hereto. 
 
 Judge. 
 
 Muskogee, Okla., September 15, 1908. 
 On behalf of the synod of Oklahoma of the Presbyterian Church in th« 
 Inited States of America, the undersigned submits the following proposition 
 That we pay to the attorney for the Creek Nation the sum of $10,000 Ir 
 ettlement through judgment of the court of the suit against the Henrj 
 [endall College property in the city of Muskogee, Okla. Said sum to be 
 aid out of the proceeds of the land as lots are sold. 
 
 Ralph J. Lamb, 
 
 President of Synod. 
 
 The above offer is accepted. 
 
 W. L. Sttjkdevant, 
 Special Counsel for Complainant, the United States. 
 
 M. L. MoTT, 
 Attorney for Creek Nation. 
 
 The Chairman. The committee will now adjourn. 
 Thereupon, at 1 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned untu 
 londay, January 18, 1915, at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 MONDAY, JANUARY 18, 1915. 
 
 Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 |The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m, pursuant to adjoum- 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Myers, Lane, Robinson, 
 Owen Clapp and Page; also Mr. E. B. Meritt, Assistant Commissioner 
 of Indian Affairs. 
 
 The committee resumed the consideration of the bill (H. R. 20150) 
 making appropriations for the current and contingent expenses of 
 the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for fulfilling treaty stipulations with 
 rarious Indian tribes, and for other purposes, for the fiscal year 
 mdmg June 30, 1916. x- x- , j 
 
 PENNSYLVANIA. 
 INDIAN SCHOOL AT CARLISLE. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows: 
 
 Sec. 18. For support and education of Indian pupils at the Indian school at CarUsle, 
 'ennsylvania, including pay of superintendent, $132,000; for general repairs and im- 
 irovements, $20,000; in all, $152,000. 
 
 Senator Page. That is what the House allowed ? 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that it be approved. 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 SOUTH DAKOTA. 
 INDLAN SCHOOL AT FLANDREAU. 
 
 The next item was as follows: 
 
 Sec 19. For support and education of three hundred and sixty-five Indian pupils 
 t the Indian school at Flandreau, South Dakota, and for pay of saperintendent, 
 31,500; for general repairs and improvements, $5,000; in all, $66,500: Provided, That 
 le unexpended balance of the $10,000 appropriated by the Indian appropriation act 
 jproved August first, ninateen hundred and fourteen, for the repair of buildings and 
 I replace equipment destroyed or damaged by the tornado of June tenth, nineteen 
 lujdred and fourteen, at the Flandreau Indian School, South Dakota, is hereby made 
 imediately available for expenses incurred for the purpose stated after the tornado 
 id before August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen, and for a water tank and the 
 irchase of dairy cattle to be used in connection with said school. 
 
 Mr. ]\iERiTT. Mr. Chairman, the House did not allow us our esti- 
 .ate on this item. We estimated for 162,955 for support. We 
 ould like to have that item reinserted. They also omitted some 
 
 61 
 
62 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 new buildings and reduced our repair fund, but if we can get the 
 support item we wiU be satisfied with the other amounts. 
 Senator Page. How much did you raise it? 
 Mr. .ALeritt. To $6'-?,955 from $61,500. 
 • Senator Page. Then you increased the appropriation $1,45.5? 
 Mr. .Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator EoBiNSON. The other items are not changed, 
 ■-^enator Page. I move that we approve it. 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 INDIAN SCHOOL AT PIEKRE. 
 
 The next item was as follows: 
 
 For support and education of two hundred and flity Indian pupils at the Indian 
 school at Pierre, South Dakota, including pay of superintendent, $43,750; for general 
 repairs and improvements, .|5,000; for steel water tank, ?2,000; for addition to shop 
 building, $1,000; in all, $51,750. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. You will notice that both the Pierre School and the 
 school following have an enrollment of 250 Indian pupils. The 
 House allowed us $43,750 for the support fund of one school, and 
 $48,500 lor the other. We would like to have those equalized, 
 making both $46,000. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What was the reason for that distinction, do 
 you know? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There was no reason why it should be done. There 
 has been a difference, though, in the appropriation heretofore, but 
 these appropriations should be equalized, because the schools are in 
 the same State and have the same enrollment. 
 
 Senator Page. You want them both at $46,000 ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We want them both at $46,000, and that would not 
 increase the total appropriation but would equalize them. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You mean to make the support item in the two 
 provisions on page 29 $46,750 each, reducing one and raising the 
 other? 
 
 Senator Page. And leaving the balance as it is here ? 
 
 ilr. Meritt. Making both of them $46,000. 
 
 Senator Page. And leaving the other items the same? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we approve the item. 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we return to Oregon. 
 
 The Chairman. If there is no objection we will close at the bottom 
 of page 36 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. :Meritt has suggested that we finish South 
 Dakota first. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Senator SterUng will be before the committee this 
 mornmg and I suggest that we go to Oregon while Senator Lane is 
 here. 
 
 OREGON. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 28, as follows: 
 
 Qi^fLfTP"''* ^"^^ civilization of the confederated tribes and bands under Warm 
 bprmgs Agency, Oregon, including pay of employees, $4,000. 
 
 That is the astimatp ? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 6c 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The House omitted one support item, which reads 
 stollows: 
 
 For support and rivilization of Indians vi the Klamatb Agency, Oregon, inoludini 
 ay of employees, $6,000. » j' s , - ^"i 
 
 That was omitted in the House bill on a point of order. We would 
 ike to have that restored. 
 
 Senator Lane. They left Klamath out, did they? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. That item is fully justified on page 273 ol 
 he House hearings. 
 
 Senator Lane. I had not heard about that. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There was a fight on the bill in the House because 
 •f the Choctaw per capita payment, and points of order were made 
 »n various items throughout the bill, and this item went out on a 
 )oint of order in the House. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there uuy objection to the insertion of the 
 tem? 
 
 (There being no objection, the item was agreed to.) 
 
 TTMATILLA INDIANS. 
 
 The next item was as follows: 
 
 For support and civilization of the Indians of the Umatilla Agency, Oreg., include 
 ag pay of employees, $3,000. 
 
 The Chairman. That is the estimate, *ind the item will be agreed 
 without objection. 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 INDIAN PUPILS AT SALEM. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For support and education of six hundred Indian pupils, including native pupile 
 irought from Alaska, at the Indian school, Salem, Oregon, including pay of super- 
 Qtendent, $102,000; for general repairs and improvements, $10,000; for remodeling 
 ewer system, $3,000; in all, $115,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chainnan, the House reduced our estimate on 
 hat item. We asked for $102,300 for support and our estimate was 
 educed $300. We asked for repairs, 120,000. The buildings at 
 hat school are in bad condition and we need a much larger repair 
 und and would hke to have that appropriation made immediately 
 vailable, so that we can begin repairing those buildings immediately 
 fter the passage of this bill. I visited that school last summer, 
 'he school has been allo^ved to run down and we need a much larger 
 epair fund. We wUl try to get along with $15,000, if you will make 
 fc immediately available. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You can got along with $102,000. It would 
 e hardly necessary to increase that amount ? 
 
 Ml-. Meritt. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. What do you say about that, Mr. Lane ? 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not know anything about that. I have never 
 hecked that over. 
 
 Senator Page. It is the capital of your State ? . , , 
 
 Senator Lane. No; it is not Salem. It is a little place outside, and 
 tiere is not even a street car running to it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The street car facilities are running out from balem. 
 
64 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is the Portland Line, yes; but it is pretty 
 hard to get there. You go out every two hours. I know they need 
 an assembly hall pretty badly. I do not suppose you could get that. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to the item? 
 
 Senator Page. I do not see why we should be pressing it very 
 much if the Senator from Oregon does not know that it is necessary. 
 
 Senator Lane. It is not for Oregon. It is for the children all over 
 the coast of Washington, California, and Alaska. There are more 
 Alaska children there than there are from Oregon, and they are a nice 
 lot of little folks, too. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to increasing the item for 
 repairs and improvements to $15,000, to be made immediately avail- 
 able? 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 MODOC POINT IRRIGATION SYSTEM. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For maintenance and operation of the Modoc Point irrigation system within the 
 Klamath Indian Beservation, in the State of Oregon, $4,740, reimbursable in accord- 
 ance with the provisions of the act of March third, nineteen hundred and eleven. 
 
 (The item was agreed to without objection.) 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is one other support item that was omitted by 
 the House, which reads as follows : 
 
 For support and civilization of Indians at Grande Ronde and Siletz Agencies, 
 Oregon, including pay of employees, $4,000. 
 
 I would like to have that item incorporated in the bill. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. It was inserted in the House bill and went out 
 on a point of order ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. It appears on page 278 of the House 
 hearings. 
 
 Senator Page. The House agreed to this, did it ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The House committee agreed to it. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection? 
 
 (The item was agreed to without objection.) 
 
 The Chairman. That completes Oregon. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Yes; and through South Dakota to the bottom 
 of page 36— the top of page 30 in the printed comparison. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator Clapp has suggested that Senator Ster- 
 ling would like to be heard with regard to this item, and I move that 
 we pass over to Utah. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. There is just one page of South Dakota undis- 
 posed of. 
 
 Mr Meritt Mr. Chairman, I suggest that we get through with 
 tne bouth Dakota items that have been allowed by the House, 
 and that will not affect, of course, the amendment that is to be 
 ottered. 
 
 Senator Page. All three of these have been agreed to by the 
 House, and we might leave it subject to reconsideration. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 65 
 
 SOUTH DAKOTA (reSITMED). 
 SANTEB SIOUX. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows: 
 
 For support of Sioux of different tribes, including Santee Sioux of Nebraska, North 
 )akota, and South Dakota: For pay of five teachers, one physician, one carpenter, 
 ne miller, one engineer, two farmers, and one blacksmith (article thirteen, treaty of 
 Lpril twenty-ninth, eighteen hundred and sixty-eight), $10,400; for pay of second 
 ilacksmith, and furnishing iron, steel, and other material (article eight of same treaty), 
 1,600; for pay of additional employees at the several agencies for the Sioux in Ne- 
 iraaka. North Dakota, and South Dakota, 195,000; for subsistence of the Sioux, other 
 han the Rosebud, Cheyenne River, and Standing Rock Tribes, and for purposes of 
 heir civilization (act of February twenty-eighth, eighteen hundred and seventy- 
 even), $200,000; in all, $307,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That amoimt is ia accordance with our estimates, 
 ind is justified on page 287 of the House hearings. 
 
 DAY AND INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS, SIOUX INDIANS. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For support and maintenance of day and industrial schools among the Sioux Indians, 
 Deluding the erection and repairs of school buildings, $200,000. 
 
 For the equipment and ma,intenance of the asylum for insane Indians at Canton, 
 iouth Dakota, for incidental and all other expenses necessary for its proper conduct 
 ,nd management, including pay of employees, repairs, improvements, and for neces- 
 ary expense of transporting insane Indians to and from said asylum. $45,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is in accordance with our estimate, and is justi- 
 ied on page 291 of the House hearings. 
 
 YANKTON SIOUX. 
 
 There was one support item omitted by the House which reads as 
 bllows : 
 
 For subsistence and civilization of the Yankton Sioux, South Dakota, including 
 lay of employees, $14,000. 
 
 That was stricken out on a poiat of order on the floor of the House, 
 md we would like to have it reinserted. 
 
 Senator Page. Give us the basis for the point of order ? 
 
 Mj. Meritt. The chairman held that there was no basic law 
 luthorizing this appropriation, and for that reason it went out on a 
 )oint of order, notwithstanding the fact that it has been carried in 
 he Ml for a number of years, and this agency is supported out of 
 his appropriation. 
 
 Senator Lane. They have been carrymg it right along, and they 
 .hrew it out at this time ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. And the same way with that Oregon item. I. do 
 lot understand it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The House committee allowed this item. 
 
 The Chairman. The bill last year contained this language, after 
 he figures "$200,000," in fine 17: 
 
 To be expended under the agreement with said Indians in section 17 of the act oi 
 larch 2, 1889, which agreement is hereby extended to and including June dO, I91b. 
 
 82833— VOL 1 — 15 5 
 
gg INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 I move to insert that language. . , ,i • , 
 
 Senator Robinson. That was a similar question to the one raised 
 
 with regard to the Oklahoma item; that is, the sectarian school 
 
 The Chaieman. These Indians have an agreement, as I understand 
 it, with the Government, and if that agreement is to be kept we will 
 have to insert that language. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Have you looked it up ? 
 
 The Chairman. No. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It has been in the law year after year. 
 
 Senator Page. What Senator Robmson referred to was this; that 
 there was a criticism in regard to the use of sectarian schools, and it 
 has become of sufficient importance to be considered. We have had 
 that up on one or two occasions here. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I have here a memorandum which was fur- 
 nished me by a party who is supposed to be interested in the matter, 
 giving the history of it. He states as follows : 
 
 January 15, 1915. 
 
 The House of Eepresentatives at the present session of Congress has stricken out of 
 the Indian appropriation bill for the next fiscal year the clause contained in the 
 Indian appropriation acts since 1909, undertaking to extend for a year at a time the 
 agreement (sec. 17, act Mar. 2, 1889; 25 Stat., 888) with the Sioux Indians which 
 expired February 10, 1910, and, without any action by the Indians subsequent to 
 that date renewing or extending that agreement. This clause has been considered 
 by the Interior Department as authorizing the continuance of the practice under 
 the agreement which expired February 10, 1910, of permitting individual Indians 
 to divert their pro rata shares of the annual appropriation of §200,000 for school pur- 
 poses from the Government schools to private and sectarian schools wherein they 
 desire their children educated. 
 
 Until the expiration of the agreement of February 10, 1910, and after the decision 
 of the case of Quickbear v. Leupp (210 U. S., 79), in 1908, authority for treating 
 the appropriations made for education of the Sioux as "treaty funds" rather than 
 gratuities was found in the Quickbear decision. Since February 10, 1910, the only 
 authority for this practice has been in a clause in the Indian appropriation act pur- 
 porting and undertaking to extend the agreement for one year annually. As this 
 action was entirely unilateral and there was in fact no obligation under agreement 
 with the Indians after February 10, 1910, protest has been made by the Indian Bights 
 Association and other philanthropic organizations interested in the Indians against 
 this diversion of public moneys to private schools, and that question is now under 
 consideration in the Interior Department. Now that the House of Bepresentatives 
 has stricken out the clause containing the only language under which even a claim 
 of authority could be made, it is highly desirable that the Senate should sustain this 
 action and so end the objectionable practice. 
 
 The primary consideration is the education of the Indian youth by Government 
 schools, according to the policy of our Government expressed by Congress, whereby 
 the Indians of different tribes in different parts of the country have the- benefit of a 
 uniform system of education under the direction and inspection of agents of the 
 Government. Everything should be done to strengthen and extend this system of 
 education. Nothing should be done to weaken or curtail it. No exceptional provision 
 should be made for Indian education in private schools unless the Government school 
 at a particular point is admittedly inferior or inadequate, and in such a case the defect 
 in the Goverimient system should be corrected as speedily as possible. 
 
 The diversion of the pro rata shares of the petitioning Indians reduces to that extent 
 the treaty funds available for all the members of the tribe and produces inequaUty 
 and inequity. Moreover, the practice of diverting a portion of treaty funds from 
 goveriunental to private schools excites partisan feelings among the Indians. 
 
 All the money appropriated by Congress is needed for the governmental schools, 
 which, in turn, offer facilities for all the children of the Sioux Indians. 
 
 S. M. Brosius, 
 Agent Indian Rights Association, McGill Building, Washington, D. C. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 6 
 
 January 15, 1915. 
 
 (Memorandum:) After a full consideration of the question of continuino- the pra( 
 tice of appropriating public money for the support of sectarian schools for the educ£ 
 tion of Indian children, C ongress, by the a ct approved June 10, 1896 (29 Stat L 345 
 adopted the following as the future policy of the Government in relation theretc 
 
 * * * and it is hereby declared to be the settled policy of the Government t 
 hereafter make no appropriation whatever for education in any sectarian scliool " 
 
 Reuben Quick Bear and other Sioux Indians instituted proceedings to test the lai 
 mvoh-mg the expenditure of money for private schools. In its decision the Unite 
 States Supreme Court, on May 8, 1908 (210 U. S., 79), after referring to the limitE 
 tions placed upon Congress by the act approved June 10, 1896 (supra), states- "* * 
 the effect of this legislation was to make subsequent appropriations for education mea 
 that sectarian schools were included in sharing in them, unless otherwise provided.' 
 
 That memorandum was furnished me by Mr. Brosius. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Brosius appears before the committee fre 
 quently. We wUl pass that over tor the present. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Let us look at this for a moment. Congress doe 
 not make any appropriation or any diversion. Comgress simply per 
 mits these individual Indians to use their pro rate share of the annua 
 appropriation to send their childern to a school rather than a Gov 
 ernment school, if they want to. 
 
 Senator Robinson. He states that it perpetuates an agreemen 
 which expired in February, 1910? 
 
 Senator Clapp. The agreement expired, but our granting a privilegi 
 made it one-sided, and yet impinged upon no right at all. We do no 
 make the appropriation ourselves. We simply provide that th^ 
 Indians 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yes; the provision provides that the permi 
 shall be in pursuance of the agreement. He makes the point that th 
 provision has expired, and this extension of it from year to year is t 
 unilateral action — one-sided. The action proposed to be inserte( 
 expressly provides that it shall be extended in accordance with tha 
 agreement. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That agreement was that the Indians should hav^ 
 their pro rata share and use it for this purpose if they wanted to. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I am not familiar with what the agreement was 
 
 Senator Lane. Who did they make the agreement with? 
 
 Senator Clapp. The Government. 
 
 Senator Lane. The Government. The Indian Bureau, I suppose 
 was it not ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The Sioux Indians made an agreement with thi 
 Government. 
 
 Senator Clapp. This paper states: "Under the agreement whic] 
 expired February 10, 1910, of permitting individual Indians to diver 
 their pro rata shares of the annual appropriation of $200,000," etc. 
 
 That was a treaty agreement that they might if they wanted to. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Well, the treaty has expired. 
 
 Senator Clapp. But we can still grant them the privilege. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Of course; there is no questioning the powe: 
 to do it. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Without impinging upon any treaty right. 
 
 Senator Robinson. He does not make that point there. 
 
 The Chairman. Since it is going to lead to some controversy, J 
 think we had better pass it. . ■. i 
 
 Senator Page. There is another matter, Mr. Chairman, that J 
 would like to bring to the attention of the committee. I have re 
 
• g INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 •eived several letters from parties in Oklahoma in regard to this 
 ;pproprlation of $200 each to certain tribes, or certam Indians and 
 100 S to certain other Indians, and, on the other hand, I am 
 -eceiW protests against that. Now, if that is a matter that is of 
 3onsiSfie importlnce, I think we ought to set apart some time 
 when it should come before the committee. ^ . , 
 
 The Chairman. I think you know that it has been a controverted 
 item evefsW I have been'here. The committee will have no hear- 
 IngT, except from those who represent the department, and you are 
 at liberty to retire at any time you see fit. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Do you mean that that has reference to these 
 
 The Chairman. This committee will hold executive sessions 
 There wiU be no hearings at aU. Written briefs may be filed, but 
 there wiU be no hearings. . ^ ^i_ ^ . -, , 
 
 Senator Lane. I am going to protest against that right now 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is not understood that there mil be any objec- 
 tion made to the people sitting here in the room, if they desire? 
 
 The Chairman. I do not object. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I did not so understand it. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do you object. Senator Clapp? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No; I do not object. I would not have such a 
 thine as an executive session. 
 
 •Senator Lane. I think it ought to be carried on m the open. 
 If it is going to be a star-chamber proceeding 
 
 Senator Clapp. No ; that is not fair either. Senator Lane. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. On Saturday it was agreed that Mr. Harrison 
 would be heard this morning on a matter that Senator Clapp 
 
 spoke of. 1 T o i. 
 
 The Chairman. The committee is now ready to hear Senator 
 
 Sterhng. 
 
 WAGON EOAD OR HIGHWAY THEOUGH STANDING EOCK INDIAN RESERVATION, S. DAK. 
 
 Senator Sterling. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, 
 I received a notice of the meeting of the committee and that I was 
 expected to be present when over here at the Capitol Building, and I 
 did not have access to some papers that I would like to produce before 
 the committee in the matter m regard to which I wish to call the 
 attention of the committee. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it a matter which is in the bill at present, or is it 
 some new matter? 
 
 Senator Steeling. No; it relates to the bill. I had a proposed 
 amendment to the bill written out, and if the committee will permit, 
 I wUl submit that later. I will simply call attention now to the 
 subject matter. 
 
 Let me say that in the last appropriation act there was contained 
 this provision: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and diiected to make an 
 investigation with respect to the necessity and practicability of constructing a wagon 
 road or liighway through the Standing Rock Indian Reservation in Corson County, 
 S. Dak., from a point on the Missouri River north of Pontis, S. Dak., thence in a 
 northwesterly direction to the town of Tatanka, and submit his report thereon to 
 Congress on the first Monday in December, 1914, and the sum of $1,000, or so much 
 thereof as may be necessary, is hereby appropriated for the purposes herein specified. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. gj 
 
 Now this provision was incorporated in the bill last year, and ii 
 lieu of a proposed appropriation of $50,000 for the purpose of lavim 
 out this highway, purchasing the right of way for it, etc. I have be 
 fore me the report of the Secretary of the Interior in pursuance o 
 the provision that I have just read, in which he recommends th( 
 appropriation ol a certain amount to aid in the construction of thai 
 road. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How much, Senator « 
 
 Senator Sterling. $5,000. It is nearly all through Indian lands, 
 and the Indians would be greatly benefited by the construction of this 
 road. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What was tlie total cost of the road » 
 
 Senator Steeling. The total cost will be $18,333 to the county 
 m constructing the road through the county. ' 
 
 Senator Robinson. What would be the cost then to the reserva- 
 tion? 
 
 Senator Steeling. I think it is nearly all reservation. The cost 
 to the county would be more than that. The cost would be $9,166.60, 
 plus $18,333.33, and that division is reached in this way: There was 
 an agreement between the Yellowstone Trail Association and the 
 county authorities of Corson County in regard to the proportion ol 
 th expense to be borne by each. It was agreed that one-third should 
 be borne by the county and the balance, two-thirds, should be borne 
 by the Yellowstone Trail Association. The Secretary of the Interior 
 recommends an appropriation that will pay half of the expense, or 
 about one-half of the expense, to be incurred by the county, the total 
 expense being $9,166.66, and the Secretary of the Interior recommends 
 that $5,900 be appropriated to bear one-haK of that expense. 
 
 The Chaieman. Is that estimated for, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Steeling. I do not think there is any estimate for it, or 
 in regard to it. My attention has been called to it, and if the com- 
 mittee will permit me I will read a few lines from the report of the 
 Secretary of the Interior: 
 
 Based upon the cost of constructing a 20-mile section of the road across lands ad- 
 jacent to the reservation, it is estimated that the construction of the road across the 
 reservation will cost approximately $500 per mile, or 112,500 for the 25-niile section 
 from Tatanka to McLaughlin. Assuming that the length of the road from McLaughlin 
 to the Missouri River as finally laid out will be about 30 miles, the cost of that section 
 would be approximately $15,000, making the total estimated cost of the roadway 
 across the reservation amount to $27,500. 
 
 That answers the question asked by Senator Robinson a moment 
 ago— 
 
 In this connection it is understood that an agreement has been made between the 
 county authorities and the Yellowstone Trail Association whereby the county is to 
 bear one-third and the association two-thirds of the cost of the road. On this basis 
 the cost to the county would be $9,166.66 and to the trail association $18,333.33. 
 As the members of said association are neither residents nor landowners in Corson 
 County and have practically no more interest therein than they have in any other 
 county of the State, it seems reasonable to assume that the only reason why it ia 
 willing to expend such an amount in constructing the road in question is because 
 its members desire the luxury of a good automobile highway connecting Minneap- 
 olis with the Yellowstone Park. Under these circumstances no good reason is seen 
 why the Indians should relieve the association of any part of the expense of construct- 
 ing said highway. 
 
'70 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not see any objecti9n to inserting that 
 under your statement of facts, but of course it would be subject 
 
 to a point of order. i • . ^ ■ *. c 
 
 Senator Steeling. It of course would be subject to a point ot 
 
 order 
 
 The Chairman. Very weU; that will be inserted and the point of 
 
 order reseirved. 
 
 Senator Sterling. And the amendment I propose will be con- 
 sidered ? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. i • ■. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I suggest that the appropriation be made reimbursar 
 ble out of the funds of the Standing Rock Indians. 
 
 The Chairman. Very well. . 
 
 Senator Sterling. You can make it that way, it desirable, ihe 
 Secretary of the Interior, as I was going to read, in his report suggests 
 one or the other method. 
 
 The Chairman. Have you anything further to say. Senator 
 Sterhng? 
 
 Senator Sterling. No, I think not. And I thank you, Mr. 
 Chairman, for your courtesy. 
 
 The Chairman. Have we finished South Dakota ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; that completes South Dakota. For the 
 record, Mr. Chairman, I would state that the report of the Secretary 
 of the Interior is printed in House Document No. 1236, Sixty-third 
 Congress third session, on the Standing Rock proposition. 
 
 The Chairman. I think, Mr. Commissioner, if you ever start and 
 allow the door to be opened for the camel to get his nose under the 
 tent, in the matter of the construction of roads, you will open a 
 Pandora's box. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We reahze that it would be of some benefit to the 
 Indians. It connects, however, an automobile road that passes 
 through this reservation, and it is largely for the benefit of the white 
 people. We thought that the Indians would be benefited to the 
 extent of one-half of the cost of the road within the reservation, re- 
 quiring the county to pay the other half; but in the event the appro- 
 priation is made we think it would be only fair that the appropriation 
 should come out of the funds of the Indians in the territory. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think the department ought to urge that 
 point under the circumstances. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are not urging it. 
 
 PROHIBITION LAW, FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I want to propose an amendment 
 under the Five Tribes item to allow $5,000 to enable the superin- 
 tendent of the Five Tribes to enforce the prohibitorv law as to the 
 Indians of the Five CiviHzed Tribes. 
 
 The Chairman. Have you your amendment there ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I have not drawn it formally, but I want that office 
 to be able to cooperate to a certain extent with the United States 
 district attorney. They can, through their force, if they have just 
 a small amount, render very substantial service in helping to enforce 
 that law. It is a small amount that I ask for, but I think it will be of 
 very great value in helping the prohibition law among those Indians. 
 
IJNUlAJN APPKOPEIATIOK BILL. 71 
 
 We are bound by the treaties with the Five Tribes, to preserve that 
 as prohibition territory. It is also provided by the laws of the Umted 
 States that it is prohibition territory. Under our enabhng act it wa'--^ 
 prohibition territory, and I wanted to ask just a small item so that 
 we could 
 
 The Chairman. I have no objection, lb. Meritt, is that satis- 
 factory to you ? 
 
 llr Mekitt. We would be glad to get an appropriation to help 
 keep liquor away from the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 The Chairman. All right; that is agreed to. You will prepare the 
 amendment, Senator Owen, will you ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. The committee will now hear Mr. Harrison. 
 
 PER CAPITA PAYMENTS TO THE CHOCTAWS OF MISSISSIPPI. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. B. P. HASRISON, A MEMBER OF THE 
 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE STATE OF MIS- 
 SISSIPPI. 
 
 The section of the bill is as follows : 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to pay to the 
 enrolled members of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes of Indians of Oklahoma 
 entitled under existing law to share in the funds of said tribes, or to their lawful heirs, 
 out of any moneys belonging to said tribes in the United States Treasury or deposited 
 in any bank or held by any official under the jurisdiction of the»Secretary of the 
 Interior, not to exceed $200 per capita, in the case of the Choctaws, and $100 per 
 capita in the case of the Chickasaws, said payment to be made under such rules and 
 regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe: Provided, That in cases 
 where such enrolled members or their heirs are Indians who by reason of their degree 
 of Indian blood belong to the restricted class, the Secretary of the Interior may, in 
 his discretion, withhold such payments and use the same for the benefit of such 
 restricted Indians: Provided further, That the money paid to the enrolled members aa 
 provided herein shall be exempt from any Ken for attorneys' fees or other debt con- 
 tracted prior to the passage of this act. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. Mr. Chairman, I want to be heard on the' per 
 capita payment of the Choctaws. 
 
 Senator Robinson. It seems to me I have heard of this before. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. I am trying to save time for the Senate and your- 
 selves and hope that you wfll not embody the provision in this bill. 
 Senator WOhams asked me to appear before the committee and I 
 proposed to Senator Robinson to arrange with the committee that I 
 mignt be heard. 
 
 This is a proposition, as you know, that has been before the Senate 
 and House for quite a while, and the House committee this time 
 reported in th« Indian appropriation bill at $200 per capita payment. 
 I appeared before the House Indian Affairs Committee and asked 
 them this time not to embody it for the reason that it would precipi- 
 tate a fight on the floor, and that this was a short session of Congress 
 and that we from Mississippi did not like to be the cause in any way 
 of prolonging the session, or in any way be the cause of calling an extra 
 session. We fought it out in the House, and unfortunately at this 
 time the Secretary of the Interior sent in, on the morning that we were 
 to take a vote in the House on the per capita payments, a report 
 on a bill that had been pending before the Committees on Indian 
 Affairs of the Senate, I think, and of the House. Senator WiUiams 
 
72 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILt. 
 
 introduced a bill here. That bill has been investigated and con- 
 sidered by a subcommittee of the House Indian Affairs Committee 
 in the Sixty-second Congress. , „ ,, .r. n i! ht- 
 
 The subcommittee was composed of Mr. Russell, of Missoun, as 
 chairman, and Mr. Smith, of New York, and Mr Miller, of L^nnesota. 
 After taking much testimony, they unanimously reported that these 
 full-blood Indians— Choctaw Indians, of Mississippi— ought to be 
 enrolled and that there were many Indians excluded from the rolls. 
 In other words, while not reporting on my bill, they stated the state- 
 ment of fact in their report, which was unanimous, and I want to 
 caU the attention of the committee to the fact that none of those 
 three men who were on the subcommittee were interested in the 
 least in the distribution of the funds, none of them living in Okla- 
 homa or in Mississippi. That report was made during the Sixty- 
 second Congress at such a late time that the full committee did not 
 pass upon their report. They did not approve it or disapprove it. 
 In the Sixty-third Congress Senator WilUams introduced in the Sen- 
 ate a similar bill to the one which I introduced in the House. The 
 Indian Affairs Committee of the House, as you know, unfortunately 
 for the Mississippi Indians, is made up of three members from Okla- 
 homa, and the chairman of the Indian Affairs Committee of the 
 House named Mr. Carter, of Oklahoma, as chairman of the subcom- 
 mittee to investigate this Choctaw proposition of allowing the Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws to be enrolled. They took testimony, and their hear- 
 ings are printed in this book. I do not know whether the members 
 of this committee have that book, but they can get it. 
 
 The Chairman. It is here, Mr. Harrison. There are 861 pages of it. 
 
 Mr. Haemson. Yes. Now, the discussion of this matter before 
 that subcommittee, so far as I am concerned, is very full in my argu- 
 ment before them; and I would hke the committee, when they can 
 and feel so disposed, if they want to receive the views of the propo- 
 nents of the measure, to read my argument, as well as the arguments 
 of those who appeared in behalf of the proponents of the measure. As 
 I say, though that subcommittee made a report to the fuU committee 
 in the Sixty-third Congress; and while it was not a unanimous report 
 against my bill, I think four members of the subcommittee, that was 
 made up of five, did report disapproving my bill, and one of the 
 members of the committee, Mr. Miller, who is well posted on Indian 
 affairs, has filed a minority report or his views on the subject. The 
 fuU Committee on Indian Affairs the other day, I understand, tabled 
 my bill. That is the status of it now, so far as the House is concerned. 
 
 I was calling the attention of the committee to the fact that the 
 morning they took a vote on this draft the Indian appropriation bill 
 was being considered in the House— the Secretary of the Interior sent 
 in his report disapproving my bill. I do not know whether you have 
 seen that report; but it must be out. I called on the Secretary of the 
 Interior some time ago, when he was first inducted into office, as well 
 as the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and I told them that Missis- 
 sippi was very much interested in this proposition, and before they 
 gave any opinion on these bills to let us be heard. We have not been 
 heard. I have no doubt that the report of the Secretary of the Inte- 
 rior did mfluence a sufficient number of the Members of the House to 
 pass the per capita payment the other day. Twice before we defeated 
 the per capita payment in the House. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 73 
 
 Now, I do not care, and I do not think the Mississippi delegation 
 jares anything about holding up the funds of this tribe, but we do 
 ihink that the rights of the Mississippi Choctaws ought to be adjudi- 
 jated by some court in authority. It has not been passed upon by 
 my court of any respectable jurisdiction— that is, a high court, 
 [t was passed upon by the Dawes Commission; it was passed upon 
 by Judge Clayton, the head of the territorial court down there at one 
 bime; it was passed upon by Judge Stringer and Judge Townsend. 
 Judge Townsend held in favor of the Mississippi Choctaws; Judge 
 dlayton against them. But all of the decisions of the courts have 
 been of these minor courts and the matter has never been passed upon 
 by the Court of Claims or the Supreme Court of the United States. 
 We have been hopeful that the Oklahoma delegation ia Congress and 
 the Mississippi delegation in Congress could get together upon a 
 proposition that would send this matter to the Court of Claims, and 
 [et them pass upon the equities and the legal phases of this contro- 
 versy so that Congress would not have up here every year this propo- 
 sition to pass upon, and I would be very glad and Senator Wilhams 
 would be very glad — as well as the whole Mississippi delegation — 
 md I have been hopeful that it would meet with the approval of the 
 Oklahoma delegation, as well as the ]\Iembers of House and the Sen- 
 ate, if a provision could be written into this per capita payment pro- 
 vision allowing a reasonable per capita payment say at this time, 
 with the understanding that the whole proposition be referred to the 
 Dourt of Claims to be passed upon by them, and make it a prefor- 
 mtial case, and in that way we can get the adjudication of the court 
 md know exactly where we stand, so that the fight would not be 
 precipitated every time. I do not think that is an unreasonable 
 request, and in view of all the circumstances it seems to me that it 
 s a proposition that ought to be adopted. If the committee desires 
 :o ask me any questions, I will be glad to answer them. 
 
 Senator Page. What enactment would you make in place of the 
 mo that is provided in the bUl ? 
 
 Mr. Harrison. I do not think a payment of over $100 ought to be 
 nade, and then it should be sent to the Court of Claims for adjudica- 
 iion. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What would you send to the Court of Claims? 
 SVhat language would you use ? 
 
 Mr. Harrison. A few days ago we, or I might say I, drafted 
 •oughly a proposition — Senator Owen, did you see that ? 
 
 Senator Owen. No. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. Of course it is a rough proposition; it is a rough 
 iraft and it might not meet the approval of everyone, but it seems 
 io me it might be worded in such a way as to carry out this idea, viz: 
 
 Provided further, however. That the Court of Claims is hereby granted jurisdiction to 
 ly and decide the followina: questions of difference arising out of treaty stipulations 
 )etween the United States Government and the Choctaw Nation: First, whether any 
 dentified or unidentified Choctaw Indians of the fall blood or mixed Choctaw blood, 
 (rho now live in Mississippi and whose names do not now appear upon the final rolls 
 if the Choctaw Nation and whose ancestors received a patent, or were entitled^ to 
 eceive a patent, under article 14 of the treaty of 1830 between the Choctaw Nation 
 .nd the United States Government, are now entitled to all or any of the privileges of 
 . Choctaw citizen or any legal or equitable rights in the tribal property ol the Ohoc- 
 aw Nation in Oklahoma. Secondly. And whether they have any legal or equitable 
 laims against the Government of the United States. 
 
74 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 That said Court of Claims in considering, trying, and deciding said questions sMl 
 consider, try, and decide the entire questions of difference de novo. 
 
 That any claimant as a Mississippi Choctaw who is not now upon the final rolls of 
 the Choctaw Nation shall have the right for and on behalf of himself and any other 
 claimants as Mississippi Ghoctawa, to begin the ascertainment of the judgment of the 
 Court of Claims on said questions by filing in the Court of Claims a petition stating the 
 facts upon which sa,id Mississippi Choctaws base their claims to enrollment upon the 
 final rolls of the Choctaw Nation; and in all respects the rules and practices of the 
 Oiiu't of Claims shall be followed, and the Court of Claims give said case when fibd 
 preference on the docket, and shall transmit its findings to the Congress of the United 
 States. 
 
 Now, it strikes me there might be a provision written also provid- 
 ing for a right of appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States. 
 I would not contend for that if it did not meet with the approval of 
 the Oklahoma delegation. The thing we want is to settle the propo- 
 sition in some way, and it strikes me that this is about the best and 
 quickest way to do it. Senator Owen has suggested that several times, 
 and it did not meet the approval of Congress when he did 
 
 The Chaikman. You say it did not ? 
 
 Mr. Harrison. It did not. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think you could make a distinction between Sen- 
 ator Owen and the attorney who was representing the Choctaws at 
 the time. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. Senator Owen at the time was representing the 
 Mississippi Choctaws. 
 
 The Chairman. It was Mr. Owen then ? 
 
 Mr. Harrison. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. I would like to state for the record that there is no 
 inconsistency between the position that was taken by Senator Owen 
 as attorney and the position which he took afterwards as a repre- 
 sentative of the State of Oklahoma. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. I do not care to get into any controversy with Sen- 
 ator Owen about that. I know everything he did reflected credit on 
 him as a lawyer and man, and I sometimes think it was the magnifi- 
 cent fight that he really made in behalf of the Mississippi Choctaws 
 that encouraged me in their behalf. 
 
 The Chairman. You will submit your proposed amendment in the 
 record ? 
 
 Mr. Harrison. Yes, sir; I would like to do that. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any special argument that you desire to 
 submit, or any paper that you want to have the committee look 
 into? 
 
 Mr. Harrison. The committee has heard the discussion on the 
 floor with respect to these rights, and the argument that we made 
 that IS embodied in these hearings. The matter has been gone into 
 very luUy so far as presenting their rights to enrollment is concerned. 
 1 thmk that is all I care to say. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT I. OWEN, A SENATOR FROM 
 THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA. 
 
 Senator Owen. While Mr. Harrison is here, I would Hke to state 
 Driefly my recollection of this matter, and have Mr. Harrison correct 
 any error that I may make, if I should happen to make one. 
 
 ihe Chairman. Very well, Senator, 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 75 
 
 Senator Owen. i>lr. Harrison has been studying this record more 
 lOigently than I. 
 
 I represented the Mississippi Choctaws in 1896. Congress that year 
 )assed a provision for the enrolhnent of the members of the Five 
 ]iviUzed Tribes. As the representative of some of those Mississippi 
 Choctaws I presented those cases to the Dawes Commission at Vinita 
 n September, 1896, demanding the enrollment of thefuU-blood Missis- 
 ;ippi Choctaws mider the Jacli Amos case. There were 97 heads of 
 'amilies, fuU-blood Mississipjji Choctaws, and I demanded that they 
 3e enrolled mider the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830, which 
 provided that the Choctaws then living in Mississippi, who desired 
 :o remain in the State of Mississippi and become citizens of the 
 State, might be allowed to do so, and have them present their claim 
 to the United States agent within a certain time and that thereupon 
 3ach adult should be allowed 640 acres of land in Mississippi, 320 
 icres for each child between 10 and 21 years, and 160 acres for each 
 jhild under 10 years of age. The nineteenth article of that treaty 
 3rovided that those who had improvements of a certaia number of 
 icres of agricultural land under cultivation should be allowed to have 
 such lands that the fourteenth article claimants had. There were 
 3ver a thousand nineteenth article claimants. There was a reserva- 
 tion at the end of the fourteenth article to the effect that fourteenth 
 irticle claimants would not rehnquish thereby their rights to Choctaw 
 jitizenship, but if they ever removed they should not be entitled to 
 the Choctaw aimuities 
 
 The Indian agent at that time— a man named Ward — was a care- 
 less, reckless, intemperate man. * He did not make a record of these 
 fourteenth-article payments, except in a very small degree — I think, 
 perhaps, between 100 and 200 
 
 Mr. Harrison. One hundred and forty-three. 
 
 Senator Owen. One hundred and forty-three, Mr. Harrison says. 
 But afterwards the Government sent a commission— Messrs. Murray 
 and Vroom — who looked into the matter and an allowance was made 
 of certain land scrip to the Choctaws, who did not find themselves 
 able to comply with the provisions of the fourteenth article, and 
 who were not recorded, therefore, under the fourteenth article, and 
 the Government attempted to settle the matter by giving them 
 this land scrip. They found abdut 4,000—1 have forgotten just the 
 precise number, but' Mr. Harrison may remember— who ought to 
 have been recorded, but who were not. Of those— 4,000 of their 
 descendants— about 4,000 came over to the Choctaw country west 
 but there still remained quite a group of full bloods, consistmg of 
 fourteenth and also nineteenth article full bloods— and I may say 
 that this is an inference, because that is not recorded m such way 
 that I could declare it a historical fact; but at aU events there 
 were a number of fuU bloods still remaining m Mississippi, and these 
 increased in number by childbirth, which included a number ot 
 descendants of the fourteenth-article claimants and also ol the 
 nineteenth-article claimants, the latter not claiming to retain the 
 right of Choctaw citizenship if they remained m Mississippi. 
 
 When I presented this matter to the Dawes Commission and made 
 this demand, I argued that the fourteenth article had reserved the 
 right of Choctaw citizenship to claimants under that article, and that 
 
76 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 therefore the Dawes Commission ought to enroll them. The Dawes 
 Commission, however, having considered the matter, made a summary 
 denial, simply fmrnishing notice to Jack Amos, through my oflace, 
 that his application for citizenship was denied, giving no reason for 
 the denial. That was done on the 1st of December, or thereabouts, 
 
 1896. I immediately prepared a printed memorial, addressed to the 
 Congress of the United States — to the Senate and House of Repre- 
 sentatives, urging the fourteenth article, pointing out that the west- 
 ern Choctaws had recognized the Choctaws of Mississippi as entitled 
 to the rights of Choctaw citizenship, and I flooded Congress with 
 memorials in December, 1896, and in January, 1897, and in Septem- 
 ber, 1897, strenuously urging that view upon Congress. 
 
 When the appropriation bill came up in the Senate in February, 
 
 1897, I presented the matter to Senator Walthall, who then repre- 
 sented Mississippi in the United States Senate, and Senator Walthall 
 introduced an amendment to the Indian appropriation bill which I 
 drew, authorizing the enrollment of full-blood Mississippi Choctaws 
 and tlieir children up to one-eighth blood. Mr. R. F. rettigrew was 
 then chairman of the committee on Indian Affairs, and he objected 
 to this summary way of construing the fourteenth article relating to 
 full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, and since the pro.vision offered by 
 Senator Walthall was subject to a point of order, the chairman of the 
 committee proposed as a substitute that the Dawes Commission 
 should be instructed to make a formal report upon the rights of the 
 Mississippi Choctaws, and Senator Walthall accepted that compromise. 
 It went into the bill and passed Corigress on the 3d of March, 1897. 
 
 Mr. Cleveland, objecting to certain items in the bill — ^not this 
 item, however — declined to sign the appropriation bill and made it 
 necessary to have an extra session of Congress, and Congress reas- 
 sembled and passed the appropriation bill in identically the same 
 form as it had passed the previous Congress without any change in 
 it, directing the Dawes Commission to make its report. 
 
 I appeared before the Dawes Commission on behalf of the Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws in the fall of 1897 and urged this view with regard 
 to the fourteenth article, by elaborate argument in person, and the 
 Dawes Commission in January, 1898, made a report which they sent 
 back to Congress, addressed to the Senate and House of Representa- 
 tives, m which they found that under the fourteenth article the 
 full-blood Choctaws in Mississippi would be entitled to remove to 
 the country west if they should first prove that their ancestors had 
 actually complied with the conditions of the fourteenth article, and 
 in the second place, that they were actually the lineal descendants 
 of such ancestors, but third that unless they then removed they 
 would have no rights. 
 
 1 had tried in September, 1896, to get the broadest possible recog- 
 nition for the Mississippi Choctaws, but failed before the Dawes 
 Commission m the Jack Amos case. In the meantime I had appealed 
 to United States Court the case of Jack Amos under the statute of 
 Congress which permitted that appeal, and it went before Judge 
 William H. H. Clayton at McAllister, who was then judge for the 
 third judicial division of the Indian Territory, and the argument 
 was presented to him along the same lines, and he decided in the 
 Jack Amos case that the Mississippi Choctaws who had not moved 
 were not entitled but that the law was as the Dawes Commission had 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 77 
 
 eported. I then took the matter to the Supreme Court of the 
 Jnited States and argued it under the head of the Emma Nabor'a 
 ase, and the Supreme Court held that the Clayton decision was 
 inal, on the groimd that that court had been given final jurisdiction 
 ly the Congress of the United States in these controverted questions. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. WlU you pardon mo at that point. The Supreme 
 :iourt did not go into the merits of the case at aU. 
 
 Senator Owen. Not at all. They only passed upon the matter 
 if jurisdiction and held that the Clayton decision in tnat case, and in 
 lH other matters upon which he passed, was a finahty under the law 
 mder which he exercised jurisdiction. So, in my anxiety to get some 
 ■ecognition for these people, I then asked Congress in February, 1898, 
 hat the Dawes Commission report, which required the iMississippi 
 ]hoctaws to be identified, should be followed by an act of Congress 
 lirecting the Dawes Commission to identify these people who were 
 sntitled under the fourteenth article, and Congress m the act known 
 IS the Curtis Act of June 28, 1898, passed a provision directing the 
 3awes Commission to identify the Mississippi Choctaws who would 
 !ome within the provisions of the fourteenth article and be entitled 
 ;o enrollment. Air. AIcKennon, representing the Dawes Commission, 
 vent down to Mississippi. He failed to give notice to the Governor 
 >f the Choctaw Nation or the Governor of the Chickasaw Nation I 
 hould say, so that the Chickasaw tribal authorities, it appears, were 
 lot present in this matter in which they had a very vital interest 
 jecause millions of doUars were involved in this question as to whether 
 )r not those people should be enrolled. That factor entered into the 
 natter afterwards. 
 
 On March 10, 1899, the Dawes Commission, having spent three 
 veeks in Mississippi, made a report on the identification of the Mis- 
 sissippi Choctaws and they reported that they had enioUed in those 
 iree weeks 1,923 Choctaws who they thought ought to be recog- 
 lized as fourteenth article claimants, although they stated thai 
 ;liey found from an examination of this matter that the Mississippi 
 Dhoctaws were unable to prove that their ancestors had complied 
 ^ith the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830. 
 
 They reported that this man Ward, who was Indian agent at thai 
 iime, had not done his duty and therefore he had not made a propel 
 ■ecord that would have been of historical value to the Mississipp: 
 yhoctaws in proving the compliance of fourteenth-article Choctaws 
 )f course at the time they might have furnished proof that they die 
 jomply, but after 70 years had passed, and they had neglected evej 
 ,0 make any record of the proof, it became impossible for them tc 
 irove that their ancestors had complied with the fourteenth article 
 n the first place, and they found it also impossible to prove thai 
 ihey were the lineal descendants of the ancestors of the date of 1830 
 )ecause they had no family records. They did not keep a record oi 
 leaths or births. They did not have the English patronymic tl^ougt 
 vhich you could trace a family, but they were named Tom, Betsy 
 Fohn, Jack, etc. ; so it was impossible to make this proof. And more 
 han that, the Choctaws were an unlettered people. 
 
 In view of that report of the Dawes Commission I immediatel3 
 indertook to get the Interior Department to confirm that schedule 
 )n the ground that it was the best evidence that could be obtained 
 md wMle it was somewhat loose and might contam some that wen 
 
78 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 not entitled, it still would not be so very far wrong to assume that 
 they were fourteenth-article claimants and that they were descendants 
 of the fourteenth-article claimants, and on the 26th of August, 1899, 
 the Interior Department gave a quasi or tentative approval, re- 
 serving the right to disapprove afterwards if they found disapproval 
 justified from the evidence, and subsequently they did disapprove 
 the entire schedule March 1, 1907, on the ground that it was not 
 made in accordance with law, and was not established by evidence. 
 
 In 1900 there being confessedly from 300 to 500 Mississippi Choc- 
 taws of full blood who had not been enrolled on the schedule, my 
 associates demanded that the Dawes Commission complete that 
 task and enroll that number, from 300 to 500, whom they have sug- 
 gested were still in Mississippi unidentified. They then went back 
 to Mississippi in December, 1900, and began to take evidence and 
 make a record of the evidence. In the meantime they had notified 
 the Choctaw governor and the Chickasaw governor of the taking 
 of this evidence and the Choctaw governor and the Chickasaw 
 governor were represented by counsel who demanded technical 
 proof of a legal right before any of the property owned by the Choc- 
 taw and Chickasaw nations west should be diverted to the Mississippi 
 Choctaws. I protested against that method which meant the abro- 
 gation of the full-blood rule of evidence— perhaps not justly, but I 
 did what I could for my clients, and did not want to have this full- 
 blood rule of evidence adopted on March 10, 1899, abrogated. I ■ 
 wanted that to stand because I saw that that was the only way in 
 which I could ever get my clients in, and that if the Dawes Commis- 
 sion ever enforced the usual rule of evidence with respect to them, 
 they were lost. But the Dawes Commission went ahead and took this 
 they testimony at great length. They examined 1,800 of the 1,923 
 cases that they at first scheduled, and finally on the 19th of May, 1902, 
 they made a final report that they had examined 1,800 cases out of 
 1,923 cases, and they had found only one single case, that of Josephine 
 Hussey et al., who could prove that then- ancestors had comphed 
 with the fourteenth article, and that they were lineal descendants of 
 such ancestors, and they therefore declared that the schedule of March 
 10, 1899, was null and void, and that they were prepared to submit 
 testimony with regard to each particular case. They spent many 
 months over there, from 1900 to 1902. 
 
 The Chaikman. Let me ask you a question. You say that the 
 Dawes Commission sat in Mississippi? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chaikman. Then those Indians had access to the commission, 
 01 course ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Oh, yes, for many months, beginning with 1900 
 and extending through 1900 and 1901, and I thmk up to the begin- 
 nmg ot 1902, and they exhausted the question of evidence. They 
 made the most far-reaching investigation of it that it was possible 
 Interio? De Trtoen^"" '^^^ ^^''^ ^'''''''' ^^'^ instructions of the 
 
 ,,/S?.?^^^''^''^ ^A ^^^^! *^® Choctaw and Chickasaw delegates agreed 
 Tf Moi;t Tn '^'L'on''™T!?''''J ^^^^ *^^y ^«"^'l recognize tlis schedule 
 IZl ^O'.^f »'^^nd the fuU-blood rule of evidence, and submitted 
 an agreement to that effect for the Interior Department, but about 
 tfiat time, or just before that time, they had employed a fiim by the 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIA.TION BILI,. 75 
 
 name of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, who wore very alert and 
 active and live solicitors, and they represented the Choctaws and 
 Chickasaws agamst all comers. They demanded the usual rules oi 
 evidence apply. They demanded that the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 governors both should be notified when the Dawes Commission pro- 
 posed to consider any cases adverse to the rights of the Choctaw 
 Nation and Chickasaw Nation m the matter of the citizenship cases, 
 and that they be allowed to be present and to cross-examine wit- 
 nesses and to take part in the proceedings, and they were present 
 durmg this mvestigation in Mississippi, and m Oklahoma for that 
 matte t'— because many cases came up in Oklahoma; altogether there 
 were 25,000 apphcations, but the admissions were finally Umited to 
 a small number. It appears that a great number of those apphca- 
 tions were fraudulent and perjured testimony was used in many 
 cases, the people trying to get m and get a part of this estate just by 
 swearing to their alleged ancestors. It was almost impossible to 
 positively prove perjury ui such cases, but still the Dawes Commis- 
 sion could ascertain that the testimony was not true. Nobody was 
 prosecuted for perjury so far as I know. But the Dawes Commission, 
 Ending that this evidence was not worthy of behef, justly rejected a 
 very large number of those cases. They came from the ends of the 
 country — Texas, Arkansas, and Kansas, and from even California 
 and the Western States. There were many attorneys who were seek- 
 ing cHents and advertising that they could get them on the roUs if 
 they had any Indian blood in them, and it resulted in a great many 
 ignorant people applying and a great many being disappointed. 
 
 On Febiuary 7, 1901, the Choctaw delegates and Chickasaw dele- 
 gates sent in this report to the Secretary of the Interior; but there 
 they changed the agreement, and before they submitted the agree- 
 ment to Congress they struck out the recognition of the schedule of 
 March 10, 1899, and inserted the words "all Mississippi Choctaws 
 duly identified," afterwards the Dawes Commission and the Interior 
 Department interpreting the words "duly identified" to mean iden- 
 tified by evidence competent to prove the fact under the rules oi 
 law. The Dawes Commission interpreted the words "duly identi- 
 fied" in their report of May 19, 1902, as requiring proof that would 
 be competent in any court that would pass upon evidence under the 
 usual laws governing evidence. That agreement of February 23, 
 
 1901, did not get through. So the Choctaw and Chickasaw agree- 
 ment came up again in another form in 1902 — I think on March 24, 
 
 1902. They nad then elaborated the piovision with regard to the 
 Mississippi Choctaws in sections 41, 42, 43, and 44. In section 41 
 they provided for all Mississippi Choctaws "duly identified." I saw 
 in those words a deadly danger to the Mississippi Choctaws, because 
 I knew they could not furnish competent evidence ; that if they came 
 in at an it would have to be from a spirit of benevolence and through 
 a concession made to enroll them just out of humanitarian sentiment 
 and not because they could prove anything. 
 
 So I immediately had presented to the Congress a memorial, on 
 April 24, 1902, 1 think it was. It was presented to the United States 
 Senate by Senator Harris of Kansas, and in that I demanded a simple 
 substitute for sections 41, 42, 43, and 44, providing that the schedule 
 of March 10, 1899, which had identified 1,923 Mississippi Choctaws, 
 should be recognized; that the full-blood rule of evidence should be 
 
80 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 
 
 recognized — that is to say, that no Choctaw need prove more than 
 that he was of the full blood and that he would not have to prove 
 that hfe was a fourteenth article claimant or a nineteenth article 
 claimant; that he would not have to prove that his ancestors com- 
 plied with the fourteenth article, and he would not ha,ve to prove 
 tdmself a hneal descendant of men who had compUed with the four- 
 teenth article provision, but that if he merely proved that he was a 
 fuU blood he might be enrolled. 
 
 I objected also to a number of the provisions in the draft of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw agreement of 1902, which required them to 
 move within a certain time — move before the ratification of the 
 agreement and prove within 12 months that they had removed before 
 the ratification of the agreement and remain three years upon the 
 land, and within four years prove that they had complied with these 
 previous conditions, aU of which involved dealing with ignorant 
 people and might preclude many of them. I objected to many of 
 these conditions and urged the Harris amendment before the Senate 
 and House committees. I appeared before both committees and 
 urgently represented the views of these people and the rights that I 
 claimed for them. 
 
 A compromise was arranged. The representative of the Choctaw 
 and Chickasaw Nations, the firm of McMurray, Mansfield & Cornish, 
 represented by Mr. McMurray, drew up a very drastic full-blood rule 
 of evidence which would apply only to those of full blood and would 
 not even apply to the mixed-blood children of the full bloods. It was 
 a drastic provision recognizing those who -were the fuU-blood Choc- 
 taws and none o thers as a compromise for this larger demand which 
 I made for the Mississippi Choctaws. 
 
 That was presented by Mr. Curtis to the gentlemen who were inter- 
 ested in the Mississippi Choctaws. Mr. mlhams on the House side 
 was active at that time for the Mississippi Choctaws. I had appealed 
 to hint, and he was interested in them because they lived in nis dis- 
 trict, just as he is interested in them now. I appealed also to Senator 
 Jones, of Arkansas, who was a very particular personal friend of mine, 
 and I appealed to Senator Money, who at that time was in the Senate, 
 and with whom also I had very friendly, cordial personal relations. 
 I presented this argument — I do not mean that I appealed to them 
 on the ground of personal friendship, but I had access to them and 
 had the opportunity of presenting the argument which I did present 
 to the full committee and presented it as vigorously as I coifld. It 
 resulted in this compromise, which was drawn by the attorney of the 
 Choctaws and Chickasaws. I also urged that those who could prove 
 tliemselves fuU-blood Choctaws might be allowed to remove west 
 ^ndbe enrolled for allotment, provided that within six months after they 
 tad been identified. It was an amendment which was obtained to 
 that primary draft of the Choctaw and Chickasaw agreement, because 
 the way they had drafted it was that they might remove at any time 
 inr>o^®T,^^*^?^*^°^ °^ *^*' agreement. That would have been July 1, 
 1902, but gmng them the right to remove within six months after 
 identihcation meant that they might be identified at some subse- 
 cment time, and be notified of the fact that they were identified, and 
 then that they would have six months after that notice of identifi- 
 cation to rnove. That was very important, because imtil they were 
 reaUy identified it was obviously unfair to them to ask them to break 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. g] 
 
 ^P theb homes in Mississippi, sell the little property they had, and c^c 
 to the West without knowing whether they would be identified or not 
 
 I therefore insisted upon that provision and it was obtained bi 
 an amendment m the House providing they might hare six months 
 after identification. Under that amended section there were enrollec 
 and allotted 1,643 persons Mississippi Choctaws. There were quite 
 a few who did not move— there were 500 identified who did not move 
 and there were 500 of the original schedule of March 10, 1899, whc 
 were not reidentified. So that altogether on the identified roll oi 
 March 10, 1899, there were a thousand who were dropped out — 50C 
 because they did not move and 500 because they were not reidenti- 
 fied upon an investigation as to their rights to identification. 
 
 Now, that was the status. Therefore, when this matter came uf 
 afterwards on the floor of the Senate, representing the Choctaw anc 
 Chickasaws west, I found it not in the least inconsistent with mj 
 previous position as advocate of the Mississippi Choctaws to sa:v 
 that after this compromise adjustment of 1902, and after the Choc- 
 taws and Chickasaws west had bought their peace in this contro- 
 versy by allowing the admission of 1,643 Mississippi Choctaws whc 
 were taken at the pro rata shares and had granted a very large 
 property, estimated between $10,000,000 and $15,000,000, to these 
 Mississippi Choctaws — that they ought to have their peace and 
 ought not to be asked to reopen this roll, especially as Congress had 
 closed this roll peremptorily on March 4, 1907, after having had 
 the rolls open for 11 long years. I had part of my own family left 
 off the Cherokee rolls even — members who were born in the Cherokee 
 country — because they had moved into Virginia and had not reestab- 
 lished residence, under the rule of Congress in the Curtis Act of 1898 
 which precluded all those who had not established bona fide resi- 
 dence prior to June 28, 1898. 
 
 It was the universal rule established by Congress with regard to the 
 Cherokees and the Seminoles, the Creeks, the Choctaws, and Chick- 
 asaws, except only the Mississippi Choctaws, and as their attorney I 
 demanded that exception. I pointed out that they were entitled 
 ander the fourteenth article ana that they ought not to be precluded 
 for not having established residence before June 28, 1898, since the 
 fourteenth article contemplated that they might retain residence in 
 Vlississippi, and so that single exception was made in Congress in 
 1898, ana it was nine years after that exception was made that the 
 -oils were finally closed on March 4, 1907. They have now been 
 dosed nearly eight years. I have not thought it inconsistent that 
 ;he Choctaws and Chickasaws, having bought their peace by this 
 idjustment in 1902, ought not now to be asked to open the roUs 
 igaiu. In the last year there were found by the Interior Department 
 iome 300 or 400 persons — I have forgotten just what the number 
 vas— of individuals who by error, mistake, or oversight had some 
 iquitable right to enrolhnent, and on my advice they were enrolled. 
 
 The Chairman. They were enrolled last year. 
 
 Senator Owen. We enrolled them last year upon my requetet and 
 ipon the acquiesence of the Five Civilized Tribes. _ 
 
 Mr. Haeeison. Senator, none of those Choctaws were Mississippi 
 )hoctaws. 
 
 Senator Owen. Only a few. 
 
 The Chairman. There were a few; maybe a half dozen. 
 
 82833— VOL 1—15 6 
 
82 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. There were about 20 of the Choctaws who were 
 in that lot that were enrolled. 
 
 Senator Owen. The Interior Department reported on all that had 
 any equitable right remaining and we enrolled them. With that 
 exception there has been no change since Congress fixed the roll m 
 1907, closing the rolls peremptorily. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. May I ask you in that connection: You really 
 thought after the act of July 1, 1902, was enacted that it restricted the 
 rights of the Mississippi Choctaws, did you ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes, sir; I did. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. You contended all the time that the Mississippi 
 Choctaws did not have the right to move under their treaty rights, 
 did you not? 
 
 Senator Owen. I made that argument that they ought not to be 
 compelled to remove, but it was decided by Judge Clayton and the 
 Dawes Commission, and practically by congressional action, so that 
 nothing remained for me to do except to acquiesce in it. 
 
 The Chairman. I take it. Senator, that you are satisfied with this 
 proAQsion in the bUl as passed by the House ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; I am. 
 
 The Chairman. It is on pages 26 and 27 — beginning with line 23 of 
 page 26. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. Would you object to letting it go before the Court 
 of Claims ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think I could agree to that, representing 
 Oklahoma, or acquiesce in any way to opening this matter. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Harrison, do you desire to be heard further, 
 on this proposition ? 
 
 Mr. Harrison. I do not desire to take up the time of the committee 
 further, and I am very much obhged to the committee for its courtesy. 
 I would like to have the permission of the committee to put into the 
 record just a few things. Would the Senator object if I should put 
 in the record his views with respect to how the rights of the Mississippi 
 Choctaws were restricted by the law of 1902 ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I wUl state it, if you would like me to do so. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. I mean what Senator Owen said as attorney for 
 them. He couched it in such magnificent terms at that time and 
 presented it so much clearer and more forcibly than I could possibly 
 present it, and if the Senator has no objection and the committee 
 will permit, I would hke to embody that language of Senator Owen. 
 
 Senator Owen. After your very comphmentary reference, I do not 
 see how I would have the face to object. 
 
 The Chairman. You may incorporate that in the record, and any- 
 thing else that you desire. 
 
 T.,.*^'^'.^^. fo?l<;'Y™g are the views of Mr. Owen, as attorney for the 
 Missi'i-^ijiy)] Choctaws, as expressed by him three or four years ago 
 m a brn^f and hearing respecting the unfairness and injustice of the 
 acts of June 28, 1898, and July 1, 1902:) 
 
 He gays: 
 
 In the meantime Mr. Charles Curtis, a Representative from Kansas, prepared 
 vanous bills (H R. 4214 and H. R. 6702) for the protection, of the people of Indian 
 ^il^^jy.' ^^t.r, ot'ier purposes, which were perfected and introduced as H. R.; 
 
 ii'j i ^;i • V°^S^®^^' second session. This bill subsequently became a law, 
 called the Curtis Act. This bill, when being perfected in the committee, provided, 
 among otner things, that the Dawes Commission, in making the rolls of citizensof 
 the Five Civilized Tnbes, should observe the following rule- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 83 
 
 a ter the claim of the Mississippi Choctaws to citizenship, was exceedS disturbed 
 
 MiSpTiZotTct Sit^l^' "^''^'f '° *^^ ^-^^^^^^^ ^^^d RepreStittrJom 
 Mississippi to protect the JIississippi Choctaws against this provision The petitioner 
 
 ?uot^d,Pas?oriow^:''''*"''^ "" amendment to the McKeVon amendme^nt above ' 
 
 ''Provided, however, That nothing contained in this act shall be so construed as to 
 militate against any rights or privileges which the Mississippi Choctaws may have 
 under the laws of or the treaties with the United States " wb m^y u<ive 
 
 And had a number of carbon copies of this provision made which he furnished to dif- 
 ferent friends as a basis of cooperation in protection of the Mississippi Choctaws 
 
 The committee adopted the amendment above stated, as prepared by plaintiff 
 Owen, and the perfected bill, introduced as H. E. 3581, contained said prolisVn and 
 thus protected tlie Mississippi Choctaws from the ruinous rule drafted by A S^McKen- 
 non and which the Dawes Commission at first proposed to be put upon them 
 Cnir^,-?=1 T'"V ™''-'j™>°y?°'^^i' insisted, in pursuance of tlie report of the Dawes 
 Commission which provided that the Mississippi Choctaws would have to be identified 
 
 ■■'"~:^^^-«^T°'^'- '^>'ch had made the favorable report declaring the necessity of identify- 
 Liig ttie Mississippi Choctaws, Congress was convinced and passed the following provi- 
 sion as an amendment to the Curtis Act: 
 
 "Said commission shall have authority to determine the identity of Choctaw In- 
 lians claiming rights in the Choctaw lands under article 14 of the treaty between the 
 Umted btates and the Choctaw Nation, concluded September 27, 1830, and to that 
 3nd they may administer oaths, exam'ne witnesses, end perform all other acts neces- 
 sary thereto and make reports to the Secretary of the Interior." 
 
 Messrs. Winton and Owen both appealed to'Senator Walthall, and Senator Walthall 
 lad a conference with Mr. McKennon in which Mr. McKennon agreed to draft an " 
 ■tem to protect the Mississippi Choctaws. Mr. McKennon drew this item and sub- 
 mtted it to Senator Walthall for his approval, and Senator Walthall did approve it, ' 
 3Ut the draft submitted to Senator Walthall was as follows: 
 
 "Said commission shall have authority to determine the identity of Choctaw ' 
 [ndians claiming rights to Choctaw lands under article 14 of the treaty between the ' 
 Jnited Statesand the Choctaw Nation concluded February 27, 1830, and to that 
 ind to administer oaths, examine witnesses, and perform all other acts necessary 
 hereto; and if they find such persons have removed to and in good faith become 
 esidents upon the lands in the Choctaw Nation and are entitled to enrollment under 
 aid article, they shall place their names on the rolls made by them." (Rec, 537.) 
 
 When Mr. McKennon submitted this matter to the committee the latter and vital 
 )art of the very important p^o^^.sion was struck out — that is, the words — 
 
 ''And if they find that such persons have removed to and in good faith become 
 esidents upon the lands in the Choctaw Nation, and are entitled to enrollment under 
 aid article, they shall place their names on the rolls made by them" — 
 rere stricken out and there was inserted in lieu thereof the following words: "and 
 aake report to the Secretary of the Interior." (30 Stats., 503.) 
 _ Itwill thus be seen that there was a secret underhanded opposition to the Missis- 
 ippi Choctaws, because it must be remembered that this roll of identification, made 
 ly the Dawes Commission March 10, 1899, and submitted by "report to the Secre- 
 iry of the Interior" was pigeonholed for eight years and then disapproved without 
 otice. This policy was ruinous, for many of the Mississippi Choctaws, full-blood 
 ndians, relied upon the Interior Department to advise them when their identifica- 
 ion was complete, so that they might move to the Chotaw country with safety, 
 'he Interior Department held those identified on this roll of 1899 in ignorance and 
 ncertainty until it was too late to move and then disapproved the roll. The gross 
 ijustice of this procedure is manifest, and no pretense can be made that the con- 
 •olling ofiicials of the Interior Department really entertained any genuine sym- 
 athy with the enrollment of the poor full-blood Mississippi Choctaws. 
 The Secretary also refused to appro^-e any plan proposed to finance the removal of 
 16 Mississippi Choctaws, who were too poor to remove themselves, although plaintiff 
 wen urged that it be done, from 1900 to 1903. 
 
84 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr Winton theretipon went to Mississippi, and with the greatest possible activity- 
 urged the Mississippi Choctaws to appear m person before the Dawes Commissioiij^ and 
 on March 10, 1899, Mr. McKennon made his report. (See Ex. 1, p. 509, R. L. O. Dep.) 
 In this report the commissioner made a schedule of 1,925 Mississippi Chocta,ws, whom 
 he identified as Mississippi Choctaws entitled to citizenship by treaty rights, and 
 stated that in Leake, Neshoba, and Newton Counties there were from three to five 
 hundred full-blood Mississippi Choctaws who did not appear before the commission. 
 
 The report declares that the Mississippi Choctaws were poor, ignorant, and helpless. 
 This report in behalf of the full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, signed and submitted by 
 the Dawes Commission, was disapproved eight years later by Mr. Secretary Hitch- 
 cock on March 4, 1907, without notice or warning, so that no person upon this roll ever 
 knew for eight years whether he was so far identified as to be entitled to remove as 
 an identified Mississippi Choctaw, and finally the entire schedule was rejected with- 
 out notice. Against this treatment of the Mississippi Choctaws the petitioner, Owen, 
 from time to time vigorously protested, but in vain. It was obvious that although 
 this report showed that' at least 2,500 ftill-blood Mississippi Choctaws, fourteenth- 
 article claimants, were entitled to identification, they were poor, ignorant, and help- 
 less, and it also demonstrates the fact that the Dawes Commission, which was expressly 
 charged by law to identify these helpless, ignorant people, never did discharge their 
 full duty in the premises. 
 
 The commission itself only gave 30 days to identify the full-blood Mississippi Choc- 
 taws in Mississippi and then the Interior Department pigeonholed this report and dis- 
 approved it eight years afterwards, thereby striking from the roll hundreds of acknowl- 
 edged full-blood Mississippi Choctaws without hearing or notice, showing that the 
 Interior Department and the Dawes Commission, while claiming to be the only friends 
 the poor, ignorant Mississippi Choctaws had, were in reality pursuing a policy ex- 
 tremely injurious both to the final identification of the full-blood Mississippi Choc- 
 taws and to their actual enrollment and allotment as citizens of the Choctaw Nation. 
 
 When the Dawes Commission had agreed with the Choctaw authorities in the 
 Choctaw-Chickasaw agreement of February 7, 1901, section 13, whereby the schedule 
 dated March 10, 1899, was to be recognized as a final identification and that all full 
 bloods should be identified, a mode of identification Petitioner Owen strongly favored 
 and urged, the Interior Department demanded that this agreement recognizing the 
 Bchedule of March 10, 1899, and the identification of all full bloods should be changed 
 by making a radical change in section 13, striking out the recognition of the schedule 
 of March 10, 1899, and striking out the "full-blood rule of identification. " 
 
 The Choctaw and Chickasaw commissioners and the Dawes Commission agreed 
 with the Interior Department and made this ruinous change in section 13, striking 
 out the schedule of March 10, 1899, and the "full-blood rule of identification" and 
 inserting a technical rule "duly identified," which would have barred 95 per cent 
 of the Mississippi Choctaws under departmental interpretation. 
 
 This provision, as to recognizing the schedule of March 10, 1899, and the recogni- 
 tion of the "full-blood" Mississippi Choctaws, as entitled to identification (for whom 
 Petitioner Owen had been fighting from 1896, nearly five years) was entirely accepta- 
 ble to Petitioner Owen and to Winton and his associates. This was all they had 
 desired on this point, except that the children of such full bloods should be identified 
 and allotted also. It was felt when this was agreed to by the representatives of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes and by the Dawes Commission that a final triumph 
 had been won, with the exception that Winton and his associates did not approve the 
 requuement submitted in the fourteenth article of the agreement (p. 12, H. R. Doc. 
 490; p. 235, Ex. 1, R. L. 0. Dept.), which proposed to require "all Mississippi Choc- 
 taws as herein defined to remove 'within six months after the ratification of this 
 igreement. Petitioner Owen objected to the requirement that the Mississippi 
 Uhoctaws should be denied citizenship unless they removed within six months from 
 l<ebruary, 1901, because the laws of Mississippi made it impossible for them to move 
 withm the crop season and comply with this proposed requirement. It was desired 
 .nat they should not be required to remove until within at least six months after final 
 dentihcation, for the reason that until they were finally identified they had no cer- 
 ,ainty of being accepted when they did remove. Owen and Winton maintained that 
 f 1901 ""* remove at all unless they pleased. Owen defeated this agreement 
 
 The^attention of the court is earnestly called to this action on the part of the Interior 
 LJeparLment to demonstrate the fact that Petitioner Owen had not only to deal with 
 ^He opposition of the Choctaws west and their attorneys— McMurray, Mansfield, & 
 .Ornish— who had a contingent fee, finally fixed at $750,000, to defeat all claimants 
 / "t'^enship m the Choctaw Nation, but had the secret and powerful hostility 
 >t omcials m the Department of the Interior, who were influenced by McMurray 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. g5 
 
 and who did not defend these helpless Mississippi Choctaws, nor carry out the law 
 to properly and fully and finally identify them on the commin-sense principles laid 
 down m the report of the Dawes Commission of March 10, 1899-thit is the f n 1- 
 blood rule of evidence-and that therefore the Mississippi Choctaws had peculiar 
 
 t^trildt^:rTln%^Tn'ltVe^' ^*' ^''^''^ '-' diligenceVotect 
 The provision that was stricken out read as follows: 
 
 '; lud if they find that such persons have removed to and in good faith become 
 residents upon the lands m the Choctaw Nation, and are entitled to enrollment under 
 said article, they shall place their names on the rolls made by them " 
 That was stricken out and this was inserted : 
 "And make report to the Secretary of the Interior." 
 " It will thus be seen" — 
 Says Mr. Owen : 
 "that there was a secret underhanded opposition to the ilississippi Choctaws because 
 It must be remembered that this roll of identification made by the Dawes Commission 
 March 10, 1899, and submitted by 'report to the Secretary of the Interior' was pigeon- 
 holed for eight years and then disapproved without notice. This poUcy was ruinous 
 for many of the JUssissippi Choctaws, full-blood Indians, relied upon the Interior De- 
 partment to ad^-lse them when their identification was complete, so that they might 
 move to the Choctaw country with safety. The Interior Department held those 
 Identified on this roll of 1899 m ignorance and uncertainty until it was too late to move 
 and then disapproved the roll. The gross injustice of this procedure is manifest and 
 no pretense can be made that the controlling officials of the Interior Department really 
 entertained any genuine sympathy with the enrollment of the poor full-blood Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws. 
 
 ' The Secretary also refused to approve any plan proposed to finance the removal 
 of the Mississippi Choctaws who were too poor to remove themselves, although Plain- 
 tiff Owen urged that it be done, from 1900 to 1903. 
 "In this report the commissioner made a schedule " — 
 
 Here he is talking about the report of McKennon that was authorized under the 
 Curtis Act — 
 
 "Of 1,925 Mississippi Choctaws whom he identified as Mississippi Choctaws entitled 
 to citizenship by treaty rights, and stated that in Leake, Neshoba, and Newton 
 Counties there were from 300 to 500 full-blood Mississippi Choctaws who did not 
 appear before the commission. 
 
 'The report declares that the Mississippi Choctaws were poor, ignorant, and help- 
 less. This report in behalf of the full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, signed and sub- 
 mitted by the Dawes Commission, was disapproved eight years later by Mr. Secretary 
 Hitchcock on March 4; 1907, without notice or warning, so that no person upon this 
 roll ever knew for eight years whether he was so far identified as to be entitled to 
 remove as an identified Mississippi Choctaw, and finally the entire schedule was 
 rejected without notice. 
 "Against this treatment" — 
 Says Mr. Owen — 
 "of the Mississipjji Choctaws the petitioner, Owen, from time to time vigorously 
 protested, but in vain. It was obvious that although this report showed that at 
 least 2,500 full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, fourteenth-article claimants, were enti- 
 tled to identification, they were poor, ignorant, and helpless, and it also demonstrates 
 the fact that the Dawes Commission, which was expressly charged by law to identify 
 these helpless, ignorant people, never did discharge their full duty in the premises." 
 He goes further and says: 
 
 "The commission itself only gave 30 days to identify the full-blood Mississippi 
 Choctaws in Mississippi, and then the Interior Department pigeonholed this report 
 and disapproved it eight years afterwards, thereby striking from the roll hundreds 
 of acknowledged full-blood Mississippi Choctaws without hearing or notice, etc." 
 
 I read in that connection from page 2496 of the testimony of Mr. Owen, in the 
 same case — 
 
 " I do not recall writing any letter to an individual Mississippi Choctaw, and do 
 not think I did so, but I did write to Charies F. Winton and advised him that, in my 
 opinion, the roll made by the Dawes Commission, dated March 10, 1899, had been 
 made by an authorized tribunal, not subject to review by the Secretary of the Interior; 
 that the decision in favor of the individuals on that roll by a tribunal duly authorized 
 by Congress was a finality and constituted a favorable judgment in behalf of the 
 individual Mississippi Choctaws who had been so enrolled; that they would put them- 
 selves in jeopardy if they voluntarily reappeared before the Dawes Commission for 
 » reconsideiation of their claim. Upon this advice Mr. Wmton advised those who 
 
86 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 . had previously, been enrolled thet they would jeopardise their interests by reappearing 
 
 a secoud time " „ „^,,;r.p nf these men not to reappear a second time. 
 
 Those people were acting on the advice of these me^^F^^^^ to exercise 
 " It became obvious at a later date that ^^e Inteno^^|P^«^ Mississippi Choctaws, 
 the authority to approve or disapprove this ^^^t oi laeiibiue ^gw which I have 
 and for that^eason it ^Z^f -g^^VelrrTard T th s^X'Zdl the \^.Zl 
 lust expressed. Mr. Wmton s attituae m rea'''"- "^^ ,• „ ^.r,. nprfnrmanpp of their 
 ^Commis'sion feel indignant, regarding him as ^o^'StL^vl' Selfo? mS 
 duties, and led to his criticism by them, ine roii ™ w"^^" fitmHtv in favor of thp 
 10, 1899, which I regarded then, and which I regard now as a finality in tavor^ 
 persons in whose behalf it was rendered, was actually disapproved by the becretary 
 
 °^'^^:Lt^;?nk^\vh\fsS;Ow;nhas 
 
 I read from the brief of Senator Owen, already referred to at pages 44 to 52, inclu- 
 sive, and at pages 72 and 73. He says: , , , , ,, „ „,, „. ■p^t,^,,,^, 
 "The Choctaw-Chickasaw authorities who had agreed on the 7th of February 
 1901, to the enrollment of the full-blood Choctaws enrolled on the schedule of March 
 10 1899, and to the enrollment of all other full-blood Choctaw Indians reading m 
 the State of Mississippi, or who had removed to the Indian Territory therefrom, hav- 
 ing found by thek experience with the Interior Department that the Interior Depart- 
 ment desired to prevent the enrollment of full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, and hav- 
 ■ ing the very powerful support of McMurray, Mansfield & Cornish, who were employed 
 on a lar<^e contingent fee to defeat every applicant for Choctaw citizenship, re used 
 to recognize the rights of full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, who had been scheduled 
 on March 10, 1899, or any other full-blood Choctaw, unless such full-blood Choctaw 
 could, by the most complete technical evidence, prove that they were entitled under 
 thefourteentharticleofthetreaty of 1830. . . ,, , „, ,„„„ , . , 
 "They made an agreement with the Dawes Commission, March 21, 1902, wmcli 
 was submitted to the Secretary of the Interior, and by him transmitted to Congress, 
 with a vigorous recommendation that it be passed just "in its present form (p. 280, 
 Ex 1, B. L. 0. Dep.), which would have eliminated the Mississippi Choctaws. This 
 at'reement wa:s submitted to the House of Representatives by Mr. Charles Curtis, of 
 :i^ansas, on March 27, 1902 (H. B. 13172, 57th Cong., 1st sess.), and on March 31, 1902, 
 in the United States Senate by Mr. Piatt, of Connecticut (Senate bill 4848). 
 
 "The status of the Mississippi Choctaws was proposed to be_ fixed in these bills, 
 ratifying such agreements, not recognizing a full-blood Mississippi Choctaw as entitled, 
 but imposing a technical rule of identification as demanded by the Interior Depart- 
 ment, in the following words: 
 
 '"Sec. 41. All persons duly identified by the Commission to the Five Civihzed 
 Tribes under the provisions of section 21 of the act of Congress approved June 28, 
 1898 (30 Stat. L., 495), as Mississippi Choctaws entitled to benefits under article 14 
 of the treaty between the United States and the Choctaw Nation, concluded Sep- 
 tember 27, 1830, may, at any time within six months after the date of the final ratifica- 
 tion of this agreement, make bona fide settlement within the Choctaw-Chickasaw 
 country, and upon proof of such settlement to such commission within one year after 
 the date of the final ratification of this agreement, may be enrolled by such com- 
 mission as Mississippi Choctaws entitled to allotment as herein provided for citizens 
 of the tribe, subject to the special provisions herein provided as to Mississippi Choc- 
 taws, and said enrollment shall be final when approved by the Secretary of the Inte- 
 rior. The application of no person for identification as a Mississippi Choctaw shall 
 be received by said commission after the date of the final ratification of this agree- 
 ment."' 
 
 Section 41 struck out the recognition of the schedule of identification of 1,925 full- 
 blood Mississippi Choctaws who had personally appeared before McKennon and been 
 identified. It also struck out the full-blood rule of evidence, and it required these 
 people not identified to move within six months after the final ratification of this 
 agreement. It provided further that no application for identification should be con- 
 sidered after the ratification of the agreement. The Dawes Commission agreed to 
 this, the Interior Department agreed to it, and it was obviously instigated by the 
 opponents of the Mississippi Choctaws, McMurray, Mansfield & Cornish, who were 
 paid a large fee contingent upon the number of applicants they could keep off of the 
 Choctaw rolls. 
 
 Section 42 required continual residence for three years, and proof thereof. 
 Section 43 required all applications to be made in person. 
 
 Section 44 required proof of three years' bona, fide residence within four years or a 
 , loss of the estate. 
 
 These provisions were obviously extremely dangerous to the full-blood Misaisaippi 
 Choctaws. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 87 
 
 First, in striking out Uie schedule of March 10, 1899, and the "full-blood" rule 
 of evidence and requiring a rule of technical identification, which the Dawes Com- 
 mission and the Interior Department had officially declared thev could not do CPn 
 37^0, Ex. 1, R. L. O. Dep.) 0' ui uu. (.rp. 
 
 Second, in requiring the removal in six months after ratification of the agreement, 
 without knowing whether they were identified or not. 
 
 Third, in requiring three years' continuous residence under such circumstances. 
 
 Fourth, in requiring proof within four years that the continuous residence had 
 been complied with; and 
 
 Fifth, in forbidding any application after the ratification of this agreement. 
 
 He says: 
 
 Against these provisions Petitioner Owen vigorously protested before the committeea 
 on behalf of the Mississippi Choctaws in a memorial to the Members of the Senate and 
 House of Representatives, which was printed on April 24, 1902, as Senate Document 
 319, Fifty-seventh Congress, first session. (P. 281, Ex. 1, R. L. 0. Dep.) Petitioner 
 Owen on April 24, 1902, got Senator Harris, of Kansas, to introduce an amendment 
 to Senate biU 4848 proposing to ratify the Choctaw-Chickasaw agreement in the fol- 
 lowing language: 
 
 Amendments intended to be proposed by Mr. Harris to the bill (S. 4848) to ratify 
 and confirm an agreement with the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes of Indians, and 
 tor other purposes, viz : 
 
 In section 35, page 21, line 1, after the word "thereon," insert: "including Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws as herein defined." 
 
 Under the heading "Jlississippi Choctaws," beginning on page 24, strike out all of 
 sections 41, 42, 43, and 44 down to the heading "Town sites," on page 27, and insert 
 inlien thereof the following: "41. All persons heretofore identified by the Commission 
 to the Five Civilized Tribes as Mississippi Choctaws and whose names appear upon 
 the schedule dated March tenth, eighteen hundred and ninety-nine, prepared by said 
 commission under the provisions of the act of Congress approved Juno twenty-eighth, 
 eighteen hundred and ninety-eight (Thirtieth Statutes, page four hundred and ninety- 
 five), and such full-blood Mississippi Choctaw Indians as may be identified by said 
 commission, and the wives, children, and grandchildren of all such lull-blood Choc- 
 taws, shall alone constitute the 'Mississippi Choctaws' entitled to benefits under 
 this agreement. 
 
 "42. All 'Mississippi Choctaws' as herein defined who shall remove or may have 
 removed to the lands of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes within twelve months 
 after official notification of their identification shall be enrolled by said commission 
 upon a separate roll designated 'Mississippi Choctaws,' and lands equal in value to 
 lands allotted to citizens of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes shall in like manner 
 be selected and set apart for each of them. All such persons who reside upon the 
 lands of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes lor a period of one year after emollment 
 as above provided shall, upon proof of such bona fide residence, receive patents as 
 provided in the Atoka agreement, and they shall hold the lands thus allotted to them 
 as provided in the Atoka agreement for citizens of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes 
 and be treated in all respects as other Choctaws." 
 
 He further says: ,,. . . 
 
 "In said memorial Petitioner Owen set out the treaty rights of the Mississippi 
 Choctaws under the treaty of 1820, under the treaty of 1830, under the treaty of 1866, 
 and, first, demanded the identification of all full-blooded Mississippi Choctaw Indians; 
 second, that they should not be required to remove west until after official notifica- 
 tion of their identification. ' ' 
 
 He says, reading at page 40 of his brief: . , ■ , , ,«■ 
 
 "The Interior Department was hostile to giving the piotection desired and Mr. 
 Curtis in the House, in response to the wishes of the department, reported this bill 
 to the'House of Representatives, having refused to grant the prayer of the Mississippi 
 Choctaws made by Petitioner Owen." . • ., j-j- • 
 
 Mr. Curtis reported this bill June 14, 1902 (H. Kept. 2493), refusing to modify m 
 any degree these harsh provisions against the Mississippi Choctaws rr -^ j ^^ ^ 
 
 Senator Stewart, chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the United States 
 Senate in like manner reported Senate bill 4848 on May 27, 1902, with the sole con- 
 cession that the poor Mississippi Choctaws might, within nine months instead of six 
 months after the ratification of the agreement, make settlement with the Choctaw 
 country. It became necessary for Petitioner Owen, therefore, to ^peal from the 
 Committee on Indian Affairs of the House and of the Senate to the House of Repre- 
 sentatives and to the Senate of the United States ■D„-„vo=oT,+aH-,.os 
 
 Petitioner Owen appeared before the committee of the House of Representatives 
 in person, urgmg these amendments, but neither the House committee nor the Senate 
 
88 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 committee would agree to make any change except the extension of three months by 
 the Senate committee, as above indicated, within which the Mississippi Choctaws 
 might remove. 
 
 Petitioner Owen thereupon appealed to Senator James K. Jones, of Arkansas, who 
 was a member of the Senate committee and who lived adjacent to the Choctaw country, 
 and to Senator Money, of Mississippi, with both of whom he was on terms of great 
 personal intimacy. An appeal was also made to Mr. McRae, of Arkansas, an intimate 
 friend of Senator Jones, in whose district next to the Choctaw country there resided 
 some claimants for citizenship, claiming under the fourteenth article of the treaty of 
 1830, and to Mr. Williams, of Mississippi, in whose district a number of full-blood 
 Miasissippi Choctaws resided. 
 
 Mr. McRae obtained an amendment in the House of Representatives on June 
 17, 1902, providing that the Mississippi Choctaws "may at any time within six 
 months after the date of their identification as Mississippi Choctaws by the said 
 commission make bona fide settlement." (Cong. Rec, 6972, 1902.) 
 
 Owen had petitioned that they should not be required to remove until after 
 identification. 
 
 And Mr. Williams obtained the further provision at the same time, as follows: 
 "The application of no person for identification as a Mississippi Choctaw shall be 
 received by said commission after six months subsequent to the date of final ratifi- 
 cation." (Cong. Rec, p. 6972; year, 1902.) 
 
 Owen had requested further time within which application might be made, thus 
 extending the time of application six months beyond that provided by the proposed 
 agreement. 
 
 Mr. Curtis offered the following compromise agreement: 
 
 "Amend section 41 by adding thereto, as a part of the last sentence, the following: 
 
 "And in the disposition of such application, all full-blood Choctaw Indians who 
 had not moved to and made bona fide settlement in the Choctaw-Chickasaw country 
 prior to June 28, 1898, shall be deemed to be Mississippi Choctaws, entitled to benefits 
 uiider article 14 of the treaty of September 30, 1830, and to identification as such by 
 said commission, but this direction or provision shall be deemed to be only a rule of 
 evidence and shall not be invoked by, or operate to, the advantage of any applicant 
 who is not of the full blood." 
 
 This amendment by Mr. Curtis conceded the "full-blood rule of evidence" that 
 Petitioner Owen was contending for, substantially, providing the right of iden- 
 tification of a full-blood Mississippi Choctaw, and the Curtis amendment was a 
 compromise to the opposition which was being made to sections 41, 42, 43, and 44, in 
 behalf of the Mississippi Choctaws, and was no doubt yielded to by Mr. Curtis because 
 ?, tl^s contest of the various friends of the Mississippi Choctaws in behalf of the full- 
 blood Choctaw Indians. 
 
 - ^l' ^^i'li^ia' of Mississippi, had already discussed with Mr. Curtis the amendment 
 inno J™ substantially proposed by Plaintiff Owen in the memorial of April 24, 
 1902 and which was then pending in the Senate as a proposed amendment to the 
 Choctaw-Chickasaw agreement, as above set forth. Mr. McMurray and the Choctaw- 
 Chickasaw delegation and the Interior Department and the Dawes Commission were 
 tully advised that this proposal was pending, and in order to prevent its passage they 
 had prepared an amendment submitted by Curtis, substantially, after consultation 
 with Attorney General Van de Venter, of the Interior Department. This proposal 
 ottered by Curtis was a compromise for the more radical amendment Wilhams had 
 m!SitL^r^h°K°^^~''f drawn by Owen and submitted by schedule of full blood 
 Mississippi Choctaws already identified as of March 10, 1899, and it struck out a 
 cSwrh?.t ^'^■^''a^^^^'}^^.''^^ ^"^^ *^<^ grandchildren of full-blood Mississippi 
 Ss,^SwtVw "^•''^^^^ "the uiLMood rule of evi.lence." The friends of the Mis- 
 in^L^^H^^ZJI^^i'''^.^ ^^'^ ^^*r' ^f J^«*' ^^'^ "uel proposal for fear that the 
 '''TM:ttZs:^L''o:'!^^^^'' ^ "^^^^^ ^^^ Mississ§.pFohoctaws altogether. 
 
 LEGISLATION ASKED FOB BY PLAINTIFF PROVISIONS SUBMITTED BY THE INTEKIOH 
 
 OWEN, WINTON, AND ASSOCIATES. DEPARTMENT, AS AMENDED AND I 
 
 GRANTED BY CONGRESS. 
 
 [Matters omitted by Congress from Interior De- 
 partment draft are inclosed in brackets, and words 
 inserted by Congress are Italicized.] 
 
 stSk outl?d tl'J^-' ^^' ""f^ ^W^ r. ^1- ^" P«^«°^« duly identified by the 
 struck out and provision made as fol- Commission ,to the Five Civilized 
 
 Tribes, under the provisions of section 
 
 iows; 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 89 
 
 "41. All persons heretofore identi- 
 fied by the Commission to the Five 
 Civilized Tribes as Mississippi Choc- 
 taws, and whose names appear upon 
 the schedule dated March 10, 1899, 
 prepared by said commission under the 
 provisions of the act of Congress ap- 
 proved June 28, 1898 (30 Stat. L., 
 495), and such full-blooded Mississippi 
 Choctaw Indians as may be identified 
 by said commission, and the wives, 
 children, and grandchildren of all such 
 fuU-blOod Choctaws, shall alone consti- 
 tute the 'Mississippi Choctaws' en- 
 titled to benefits under this agreement. 
 
 "42. All 'Mississippi Choctaws,' as 
 herein defined, who shall remove or 
 may have removed to the lands of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes within 
 12 months after official notification of 
 their identification shall be enrolled by 
 
 21 of the act of Congress approved 
 June 28, 1898 (30 Stats., 495), as Mis- 
 sissippi Choctaws entitled to benefits 
 under article 14 of' the treaty between 
 the United States and the Choctaw 
 Nation, concluded September 27, 1830, 
 may at any time within six months 
 after the date of [the final ratifica- 
 tion of this agreement] their identifica- 
 tion as Mississippi Choctaws by the 
 said commission make bona fide set- 
 tlement within the Choctaw-Chicka- 
 saw country, and upon proof of such 
 settlement to such commission within 
 one year after the date of [the final 
 ratification of this agreement may be 
 enrolled by such commission] their 
 said identification as Mississippi Choc- 
 taws shall be enrolled by such commis- 
 sion as Mississippi Choctaws entitled 
 to allotments as herein provided for 
 citizens of the tribes, subject to the 
 special provisions herein provided as 
 to Mississippi Choctaws, and said en- 
 rollment shall be final when approved 
 by the Secretary of the Interior. The 
 application of no person for identifica- 
 tion as a Mississippi Choctaw shall be 
 received by said commission after six 
 months subsequent to the date of the 
 final ratification of this agreement; 
 and in the disposition of such applica- 
 tions all full-blood Mississippi Choc- 
 taw Indians and the descendants of 
 any Mississippi Choctaw Indians, 
 whether of full or mixed blood, wha 
 received a patent to land under the 
 said fourteenth article of the said 
 treaty of 1830, who had not moved to 
 and made bona fide settlement in the 
 Choctaw- Chickasaw country prior to 
 June 28, 1898, shall be deemed to be 
 Missississippi Choctaws entitled to bene- 
 fits under article 14 of the said treaty 
 of September 27, 1830, and to identifi- 
 cation as such by said commmissionr 
 but this direction or provision shall be 
 deemed to be only a rule of evidence, 
 and shall not be invoked by or operate 
 to the advantage of any applicant who 
 is not a Mississippi Choctaw of the full 
 blood, or who is not the descendant of 
 a Mississippi Choctaw who received a 
 patent to land under said treaty, or who is 
 otherwise barred from the right of citizenship 
 in the Choctaw Nation. All of said Mis- 
 sissippi Choctaws so enrolled by said com- 
 mission shall be upon a separate roll. 
 
 42 When any such Mississippi Choc- 
 taw shall have in good faith continu- 
 ously resided upon the lands of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations for a 
 period of three years, including his 
 residence thereon before and after such 
 
90 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 said' commission upon a separate roll 
 designated 'Mississippi Choctaws'; 
 and lands equal in- value to lands allot- 
 ted to citizens of the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Tribes shall in like man- 
 ner be selected and set apart for each 
 of them. All such persons who reside 
 upon the lands of the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Tribes for a period of one 
 year after enrollment as above pro- 
 vided shall, upon proof of such bona 
 fide residence, receive patents as pro- 
 vided in the Atoka agreement, and 
 they shall hold the lands thus allotted 
 to them, as provided in the Atoka 
 agreement, for citizens of the Choc- 
 taw and Chickasaw Tribes and be 
 treated in all respects as other Choc- 
 taws." 
 
 (It will be seen that Winton and 
 associates demanded the full-blood rule 
 of evidence for Mississippi Choctaws, 
 and that they should have time after 
 identification within which to remove 
 to Choctaw lands West; and Congress 
 granted these petitions of Winton. It 
 will also be seen nothing was done for 
 the mixed bloods represented by Mr. 
 Howe, but only for the full bloods rep- 
 resented by Winton and associates.) 
 
 enrollment, he shall, upon due proof of 
 such continuous bona fide residence, 
 made in such manner and before such 
 officer as may be designated by the 
 Secretary of the Interior, receive a 
 patent for his allotment, as provided in 
 the Atoka agreement, and he shall hold 
 the lands allotted to hini, as provided 
 in this agreement, for citizens of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. 
 
 43. Applications for enrollment as 
 Mississippi Choctaw's, and applications 
 to have land set apart to them as such, 
 must be made personally before the Com- 
 mission to the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 Fathers may apply for their minor 
 children; and if the father be dead, 
 the mother may apply; husbands may 
 apply for wives. Applications for or- 
 phans, insane persons, and persons of 
 unsound mind may be made by duly 
 appointed guardian or curator, and 
 for aged and infirm persons and pris- 
 oners by agents duly authorized there- 
 unto by power of attorney, in the dis- 
 cretion of said commission. 
 
 44. If within four years after such 
 enrollment any such Mississippi Choc- 
 taw, or his heirs or representatives if 
 he be dead, fails to make proof of 
 such continuous bona fide residence for 
 the period so prescribed, or up to the 
 time of the death of such Mississippi 
 Choctaw, in case of his death after 
 enrollment, he and his heirs and rep- 
 resentatives, if he be dead, shall be 
 deemed to have acquired no interest in 
 the land so set apart to him, and the 
 same shall be sold at public auction 
 for cash, under such rules and regu- 
 lations prescribed by the Secretary of 
 the Interior, and the proceeds paid 
 into the Treasury of the United States, 
 to the credit of the Choctaw and Chick- 
 asaw Tribes, and distributed per cap- 
 ita with other funds of the tribes. Such 
 lands shall not be sold for less than their 
 appraised value. Upon payment of 
 the full purchase price, patent shall 
 issue to the purchaser. 
 
 Secretary Owen further says, at pages 71, 72, and 73 of his brief, that— 
 Ihe act of July 1, 1902, m effect narrowed and diminished the rights previously 
 gi-anted to the Mississippi Choctaws by the act of May 31, 1900, supra by imposing 
 conditions which ban-ed many of them. Plaintiff Owen continued to make efforts to 
 protect the rights of the Mississippi Choctaws, and on March 9, 1904 (Congressional 
 Kecord, 3180), United States Senator H. D. Money, of Mississippi, at the request of 
 Petitioner Owen, had printed m the Congressional Record a memorial of the Mississippi 
 Choctaws, prepared by said Owen, praying for an extension of time, in the following 
 
 '"Your memorialists, full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, residents of Mississippi and 
 of Indian Territory^ most humbly pray that those who shall have been identified by 
 the United istates Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes may be permitted at any 
 time prior to the completion of allotments, to file their applications to said commissidn 
 for allotments, and that they be not required to conform to any other rules relative to 
 their enrollment or allotment than other citizens of the Choctaw Nation by blood.' 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATIOliT BILL. 9 
 
 V "S''-^,?!*.^^' l^*^^' ^ li'^e memorial of the Mississippi Choctaw Indians, prepare 
 by Plaintiff Owen, was presented to the House of Representatives by ^h Stephem 
 chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs, and published in ffouse ' Bocumer 
 ■ t-\ \r'^7,'^^^^^ Congress second session, in which it was shown the harsh manut 
 m which McMurray, Mansfield & Cornish, attorneys lor the Choctaws and Chickasawi 
 were construing the Choctaw-Chickasaw agreement of July 1, VA)2 together with 
 copy of a bill in equity, prepared by that firm, to restrain the Dawes Commissio 
 from enrolhng_ Mississippi Choctaws who had not literally complied n-ith the moi 
 extreme technical construction of the sectioiis 41, 42, 43, and 44 in the ao-reement ( 
 July 1, 1902. ° 
 
 "Ah attempt was made by Petitioner Owen also on March 15, 1904 Fifth-eight 
 . Congress, second session m Senate bill No. 5058, to fuither protect the Mississipt 
 Choctaws, but which did not succeed at that time." 
 
 Now, I desire to read from the testimony of Senator Owen, with respect to this ac 
 of July 1, 1902. I read from pages 2498, 2499, 2566, and 2567, and also pages 259 
 and 2592. 
 
 In speaking of the conditions that were imposed upon the Mississippi Choctaws b 
 the act of July 1, 1902, Senator Owen sa^•8, in answer to a question: 
 
 "Q. 2. What were those four coiiditions? 
 
 "A. The first condition was that the Mississippi Choctaws should remove to th 
 Choctaw-Chickasaw country witliin six months from the date of identification, whe 
 the attorneys of the Choctaw Nation and the oflicials of the Department of the Interio 
 were fully informed by the protests which I filed with them that the laws of Missis 
 sippi constituted an obstacle to the remo\'al of the Mississippi Choctaws \i'ho wer 
 under contract with the planters in that State and who could not move during th 
 pendency of that contract, nor unless they paid up their current indebtedness, which 
 it was well known, they were too poor to do." 
 
 He says further: 
 
 "Second, they imposed a condition in the articles of the Choctaw-Chickasaw agree 
 ment, in sections 41, 42, and 43 of the agreement as ratified July 1, 1902, that 
 Mississippi Choctaw should prove within 12 months after his removal that he ha^ 
 removed under penalts' of forfeiture, although they well knew that such full bloo^ 
 Choctaws were .grossly ignorant and thoughtless people, liable to overlook the ire 
 portance of this legal restriction. 
 
 "The third condition, which they artfully imposed, was that the Mississippi Choc 
 taws (who were identified a second time), who did remove within six months ani 
 who did, within a year, furnish proof, should continuously reside for three years i: 
 the Choctaw-Chickasaw country, and they attempted to construe the continuous res: 
 dence as a continuous residence upon the allotted land, a thing impossible, of course 
 for infants and other individuals incapable of self-control. This artful contrivanc 
 was intended to defeat the Mississippi Choctaws who had complied with all previon 
 conditions, of proving up the identification, of removing within six months, of fui 
 nishing proof within 12 months thereafter, but who might not continuously reside i: 
 the Choctaw-Chickasaw country. 
 
 "These Mississippi Choctaws love to move about. They like to go from one place t 
 another, and many of them got homesick for Mississippi, in accordance with tliei 
 nature, and did not continuously reside as required by this artfully drawn stipulatior 
 
 "The fourth condition was that they should furnish proof within four years tha 
 they had complied with the condition of continuous residence. The Mississipf 
 Choctaws, being a very ignorant and thoughtless people, might easily be expected t 
 forget to furnish this proof in accordance with this requirement. 
 
 "For this reason I advocated an elimination of these unfavorable restrictions, s 
 that the Mississippi Choctaws should not be unduly discriininated against, and prf 
 cured the passage of the following act of CongresB, on the 21st of June, 1906, as followf 
 fo wit flndian appropriation act— Five Civilized Tribes): 
 
 " 'No distinction shall be made in the enrollment of full-blood Mississippi Choctaw 
 who have been identified by the United States Commission to the Five Civilizei 
 Tribes, and who had removed to the Indian Territory prior to March 4, 1906, and wh 
 shall furnish proof thereof.' 
 
 "Mr. Anderson. Answer objected to as argumentative, hearsay, and not respon 
 
 sive to the question . . . , , ,■ ^ .-,, 
 
 "Q 3 Do you recall the moving cause to the securing of that particular bill o 
 legislation? Do you recall that Mansfield, McMurray, and Cormsh, as attorneys fo 
 the Choctaw Nation, brought some suits in the Indian Territory for the purpose o 
 removing from the roll full-blood Mississippi Choctaws who had failed to reach th 
 Territory, some of them only lacHng a few days within the six months provided i" 
 
92 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 "Mr. Anderson. Question, objected to aa leading." 
 
 Further on, Senator Owen says: . . 
 
 "A In Exhibit 1 to my previous depoeition I submitted copies of this proceeding 
 undertaking to enjoin the Dawes Commission from enrolling Mississippi Choctaws 
 who had not literally complied with the conditions of the Choctaw-Chickasaw agree- 
 ment of July 1, 1902. (See p. 344 of Ex. 1 to the deposition of R. L. Owen.) 
 
 "Q. 4. I hand you volume 38, part 4, Congressional Record, Fifty-eighth Con- 
 gress, second session, page 3025, column 2, and page 3126, and I will ask you if by 
 reason of the institution of the suits referred to by the Choctaw Nation you took any 
 steps in their behalf? " 
 
 Note the objection: , ^ 
 
 "Mr. Anderson. Question objected to as leading. 
 
 "A. I did, and prepared a memorial which was submitted in the House of Rep- 
 resentatives on the 15th of March, 1904. See House Document 614, Fifty-eighth 
 Congress, second session, Exhibit 1 to R. L. Owen's deposition, page 341, point- 
 ing out these very objections hereinbefore set forth, showing the proceedings of the 
 attorneys of the Choctaw Nation, in equity, brought against the Dawes Commis- 
 sion for the purpose of preventing the enrollment of full-blood Mississippi Choctaws 
 who had been identified, and this memorial I personally prepared on behalf of Charles 
 F. Win ton and on behalf of the Mississippi Choctaws; that is, the full-blood Choc- 
 taws, and I caused the same memorial to be presented in the Senate of the United 
 States by Senator Money on March 9, 1904, and to be printed in the Congressional 
 Record. (See p. 3025.) I endeavored at that session to obtain this legislation pro- 
 tecting the Mississippi Choctaws against this harsh construction, but was not suc- 
 cessful; but succeeded in obtaining legislation on the Indian appropriation bill 
 approved June 21, 1906, to which I have heretofore referred." 
 
 Senator Owen further says, on page 2566: 
 
 "A. Under the act of 1900 Congress had granted the Mississippi Choctaws the right 
 of allotment on the bare condition of removal at any time prior to the closing of the 
 rolls of the Choctaws and Chickasaws. This right granted by Congress, in my judg- 
 ment, vested in the Mississippi Choctaws the right of citizenship, under the case of 
 Lone Wolf against the United States, the Cherokee Nation against Hitchcock and 
 other decisions of the Supreme Court, which declared Congress to have plenary power 
 in dealing with Indian tribes and Indian tribal property, and this act of Congress of 
 July 1, 1902, diminished these rights of the Mississippi Choctaws in the most serious 
 manner, as I have heretofore set out in great detail, in four very important particulars: 
 First, by the requirement that a Mississippi Choctaw should remove within six months 
 of identification. Second, by requiring a Mississippi Choctaw who did not remove 
 in 6 months to furnish proof within 12 months thereafter of such removal. Third, that 
 he should reside continuously for three years in the Choctaw country. Fourth, that 
 he shouldTnake proof within four years that he had complied with the three previous 
 conditions. These four conditions operated to bar and defeat probably a thousand 
 Mississippi Choctaws, which I thought was grossly unjust and which I thought de- 
 prived them of a vested legal right. I therefore objected to these conditions and 
 prayed for a more liberal provision. The Choctaw authorities, acting through their 
 attorneys and supported by the Interior Department, were sufficiently strong to force 
 these provisions through the committees and through Congress, over my earnest, 
 protest." 
 
 Senator Page. There has been another party, who very Ukely is 
 famiUar with this subject, who has appealed to me, representing a few 
 other Indians, I do not know who they are, and if this matter is going 
 to be opened — do I understand that it is to be opened so that there 
 can be anything further said about it later on? 
 
 Senator Owen. No, sir. The matter has been discussed ad 
 nauseam, and here is a very large volume containing 861 pages, if 
 anyone desires to read it. 
 
 Senator Lane. Should we read it, Senator, before we act upon 
 the item ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think it is necessary unless you want to 
 inform yourself more fully. The Interior Department has con- 
 densed the matter into a report of two pages. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 93 
 
 The Chairman. I think all of us ought to read Mr. Harrison's argu- 
 ment. 1 am going to do it, although I am predisposed to stand bv the 
 House provision. "^ 
 
 Mr. Harrison. May I say that the amendment that I have iust 
 suggested to the committee has not been seen by Senator Williams 
 or any other Member of the Mississippi delegation. It merely con- 
 tains some ideas that I have put down in writina; for your considera- 
 tion. 
 
 Senator Lane How much money does this appropriate from the 
 ^f T °^ ^^^ ^^ ^"^ ^® expended in all, do you know, Mr. Harrison "» 
 
 Mr. Harrison. That carries about $6,000,000— between $6 000 000 
 and $7,000,000. Is that not the amount, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt It will require a httle over $4,000,000 to pay the 
 Choctaws, exclusive of the Chickasaws. 
 
 Mr. Harrison. At $200 per capita it would. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. At $200 per capita it would require a httle 
 over $4,000,000. Y\ e have in the Treasury and m banks $6,000,000 
 of Choctaw funds and undistributed property valued at probablv 
 $15,000,000 or $20,000,000. f J 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Chairman, when can we take up Montana ? 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to passing that part of the 
 Oklahoma items — pages 26 and- 27, down to line 15 1 
 
 Senator Owen. Let us pass that, and I wish the committee would 
 pass the other Oklahoma items until Wednesday morning, as I have 
 m engagement in my committee. 
 
 I should like to have inserted in this record the report of the House 
 subcommittee that took this hearing, and also the letter of the 
 Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 The Chairman. There is no objection to that. It will be incor- 
 porated in the record. 
 
 (The report and letter referred to are as follows:) 
 
 report on h. r. 12586. 
 
 January 2, 1915. 
 Ion. John H. Stephens, 
 
 Chairman House Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. 
 Sir: Your subcommittee appointed to investigate and report on H. R. 12586 begs 
 eave to submit the following observations: 
 A careful and painstaking investigation of all treaties, laws, and other records 
 learing on this claim, including hearings lasting from April 1, 1914, until August 27, 
 914, was gone into by your committee. 
 H. R. 12586 directs: 
 
 1. The Secretary of the Interior to enroll certain Mississippi Choctaws upon the rolls 
 f the Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma with a full participation in their tribal estate. 
 
 2. To reopen the Choctaw rolls for the adjudication of 20,000 or more alleged 
 laimants. 
 
 There are some Choctaws still remaining in Mississippi who have persistently refused 
 nd successfully resisted all efforts of the Federal Government and the Choctaw Nation 
 3 have them move west and affiliate with the tribe. 
 
 The testimony before the subcommittee discloses many thousands of persons of 
 oubtful descent, African and other, living in Mississippi and surrounding States, 
 rho have attempted to assert claims as Choctaw Indians. 
 
 Such Indians of real Choctaw blood as still reside in Mississippi appear to take little 
 iterest in the claims asserted by their alleged attorneys. On the other hand, those 
 [aiming remote Indian blood and of doubtful descent have manifested much interest 
 1 being enrolled and sharing in a division of the Choctaw funds in Oklahoma. 
 
 The contention of these latter seems to have been inspired and augmented by cer- 
 lia. attorneys who have sent agents among these people advising them that they were 
 adians and taking contracts for their enrollment for a contingent fee of from 30 to 40 
 er cent of recovery, and in many instances a small cash retainer in addition. 
 
94 I^'DIA-N- APPKOPTilATION BILL. 
 
 According to statements and admissions of these attorneys and their agents, two 
 firms alone, those of Cantwell & Crews, of St. Louis, Mo., and Ballinger & Lee, of 
 Washington City, D. C, and Ardmore, Okla., hold contracts with 15,596 individuals, 
 carrying provisions for fees aggregating 110,882,815. 
 
 The testimony further shows that a syndicate for the purpose of securing the enroll- 
 ment of Mississippi Choctaws and a participation in the tribal estate of the western 
 Ohoctaws has been formed under the name ^'The Texas-Oklahoma Invetsment Co.," 
 capitalized at $100,000, $25,000 of which has been paid in and used. The directors 
 of this corporation are S. L, Hurlbut, of El Campo, Tex.; H. Masterson and W. A. 
 Smith, of Houston, Tex.; and T. B. Crews and H. J. Cantwell, of St. Louis, Mo. 
 
 This claim of the Mississippi Choctaw attorneys for enrollment of their clients and ' 
 participation in the Choctaw Nation's estate is by no means a new contention. The 
 claim was, under direction of law, fully adjudicated by the Commission to the Five 
 Civilized Tribes (House Doc. 274, 55th Cong., 2d sess.) and afterwards by the Federal 
 court, to which appeal was taken (Jack Amos et al. v. The Choctaw Nation, Decisions 
 of United States courts in Indian Territory, 465), both decisions being adverse to the 
 Mississippi Choctaw contention for enrollment. 
 
 In rejecting the claim of nonresident Mississippi Choctaws the Commission to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes said in part: 
 
 "This histi.rical review of the acquisition of this territory by the Choctaw Nation 
 and its subsequent legal relations to it makes it clear in the opinion of this commission 
 that the Mississippi Choctaws are not under their treaties entitled to all rights of 
 Choctaw citizenship except an interest in the Choctaw annuities and still continue 
 their residence and citizenship in Mississippi. (House Doc. 274, 55th Cong., 2d sess,)" 
 
 In affirming the decision the United States District Court for the Central District of 
 Indian Territory closed its decision with the following paragraph : 
 
 ' ' To permit men with, perchance, but a strain of Choctaw blood in their veins, who, 
 65 years ago, broke away from their kindred aad their nation, and during that time, 
 or the most of it, have been exercising the rights of citizenship and doing homage to 
 the sovereignty of another nation, and have become strangers to the people, to reach 
 forth their hands from their distant and alien homes and lay hold on a part of the 
 public domain, the common property of the people, and appropriate to their own use, 
 would be unjust and inequitable. It is therefore the opinion of the court that the 
 absent Mississippi Choctaws are not entitled to be enrolled as citizens of the Choctaw 
 Nation. The action of the Dawes Commission is therefore affirmed and a decree will 
 be entered for the Choctaw Nation. (Jack Amos et al. v. the Choctaw Nation, Deci- 
 sions of United States courts in Indian Territory, 465.)" 
 
 An appeal was taken from these decisions by the attorneys for the Mississippi Choc- 
 taws to the Supreme Court of the United States and the Jack Amos case was dismiss 
 upon motion of the attorneys for the Mississippi Choctaws. (190 U. S., 873.) 
 
 Several years subsequent to the dale of these decisions excluding the Mississippi 
 Choctaws from enrollment this matter was again taken up and readjusted by the 
 legally constituted authorities of the Federal Government and the Choctaw and 
 Clhic^casaw Nations in Oklahoma, by which ftsreement the Mississippi Choctaws were 
 given additional time for identification and establishment of bona fide residence in 
 tne Choctaw Nation m Indian Terrirory. (Supplemental agreement, "An act to 
 ratify and aflBrm the agreement Avith the CJioctaw and Chickasaw Tribes of Indian?, 
 etc.," approved .July 1, 1902.) ' 
 
 The Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma has dealt justly and liberally with the Mississippi 
 Choctaws always gi'antmg them full citizenship in their nation with all emoluments 
 therel.0 whenever they would agree to affiliate with the tribe, and the Clioctaw Nation 
 m Oklahoma is under no legal equita.ble. or moral obligation to enroll the Mississippi 
 Onoctaws as citizens of the tribe m the West at this time 
 
 By the agreements negotiated between the Federal Government and the Choctaw 
 9a^ laoa'' ""! j western Choctaws were required to be on the reservation by June 
 P, P. +?,„' ^'f^""^ *!? '?^^''®'^ ^''T ef olln-ent and participation in the tribal estate for- 
 ever thereafter, and this rule has been strictly adhered to 
 
 Mi^L*™V^^^ establishment of residence on the reservation was extended to the 
 fivfvP»?? . r^ "^ claimants until July 1, 1903, giving the Mississippi Choctaws 
 bid IZ'lZZ rn^t^rChoc^^wf " '^" *^"^ ^" establishment of sZr residence 
 
 mtl^Zuil^^l'u^'f,^°''r^'^f ^y ^^^®. Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes m 
 ^n«p?^K^ ^- ° fn^ *^^ Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations such rolls were affirmatively 
 closed by action of Congi-ess on March 4, 1907 "^unmau vc y 
 
 mtrntUMtrhl '?Qn7*^'^ Nation were held open to the Mississippi Choctaws from 
 
 Imo^Cent't^^h' fVlS^of SZTp^^^ ''°'^*^"^ " ^'^'^ ^ "^^^^ *° -^P'^*^ 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 95 
 
 The Federal Govemment as such is neither legally nor equitably obligated to enroll 
 Mississippiphoctaws with the Choctaws west, an°d is under^only su^crZa'obli|aTon 
 tothe Mississippi Choctaws as is due to dependent North American Indians who were 
 origmally occupants and owners of the soil and who have been deprived of their 
 patrimony by white settlers. ^ vo^j. i^i i,iic±i 
 
 The passage of HR 12586 would completely upset and undo 11 years of careful, 
 painstaking work of the Interior Department in settling the affairs of the Five Civilized 
 Tnbes, tui-n the wheels of progress backwards for more than 20 years, and, as has been 
 said by President Taft 'open up a Pandora's box of troubles, which the life of the 
 present generation might not see closed." 
 
 The passage of H R. 12586 would doubtless result in stupendous claims of millions 
 of dollars against the Federal Government on the part of the Oklahoma Choctaws 
 because of a division of their funds among persons whom the Federal commissions and 
 Federal courts have decided were not entitled thereto. 
 
 Its passage would lend encouragement to grafting attorneys with contracts for enor- 
 mous attorneys fees, running into milKons of dollars, and hold out inducement for 
 procurmg additional contracts from spurious claimants. 
 
 Your subcommittee therefore recommends that the Harrison bill (H R 12586) be 
 not favorably reported by the House Committee on Indian Affairs. 
 
 Respectfully submitted. 
 
 C. D. Carter, Chairman. 
 J. D. Post. 
 RoBT. p. Hill. 
 P. P. Campbell. 
 
 EEPOET OT THE SECRETARY OP THE INTERIOR ON THE HARRISON BILL (h. R. 12586). 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, January 8, 1915. 
 
 My Dear Me. Stephens: I have the honor to refer herein to a communication of 
 August 12, 1914, from Hon. C. D. Carter, then acting chairman of the Committee on 
 Indian Affairs of the House of Representatives, with which was inclosed a copy of 
 H. R. 12586, entitled "A bill to reopen the rolls of the Choctaw-Chickasaw Tribe and 
 to provide for the awarding of the rights secured to certain persons by the fourteenth 
 article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek, of date September 27, 1830." He also 
 referred to H. R. 4536 and requested that I consider the two bills together and make 
 a report thereon. 
 
 Upon examination of H. R. 4536, I find that said bill is identical with H. R. 19213, 
 introduced by Mr. Harrison of Mississippi in the Sixty-second Congress, second session, 
 upon which last-mentioned bill the department submitted to your committee a report 
 dated July 2, 1912. H. R. 12586, introduced in the present Congress by Mr. Harrison, 
 is a similar bill to the above-mentioned bills except that in said H. R. 12586 an addi- 
 tional paragraph is included in section 2 to provide for the enrollment of all persons 
 who were identified as Mississippi Choctaws by the Dawes Commission in its report of 
 March 10, 1899, commonly known as the McKennon roll, and of all persons identified 
 as ilississippi Choctaws by the Da-w es Commission from March 10, 1899, to March 4, 
 1907, whose identification was approved by the Secretary of the Interior but whose 
 names did not appear on the final citizenship rolls of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations. 
 
 The claims of Mississippi Choctaw Indians to recognition as citizens of the Choctaw 
 Nation of Oklahoma and to share in the property of said nation are based upon article 
 14 of the treaty of September 27, 1830. (7 Stat. L,, 835.) Pursuant to the terms of 
 the treaty, a large number of Choctaws were transferred from Mississippi to the country 
 west, later known as Indian Territory. These Choctaws who so removed and then- 
 descendants now constitute the main body of what is known as the Choctaw Nation. 
 There were, however, a considerable number of Choctaws who remained behind in 
 Mississippi, some of them under the provisions of article 14 above mentioned. 
 
 Said article 14 provided that the persons who claimed thereunder should not lose, 
 the privilege of a Choctaw citizen, but if they ever removed were not to be entitled 
 to any part of the Choctaw annuity. The Indians who remained behind under the 
 provisions of said article 14 received either land in Mississippi or scnp, which gave 
 the applicants the right to enter public lands in certain Southern States. A part ot 
 said scrip, however, was later commuted by a money payment. Some ot the tour- 
 teenth-article claimants later made their way west and joined the mam body ot toe 
 tribe in the Indian Territory. The Choctaw Council by various acts recognized the 
 
^6 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 right of said absentee Mississippi Choctaws to remove to the nation, and actually 
 ^I^^dtr'th? So'rons of the Atoka agreement with ^^3 Choc^w and CMc^^^^^^ 
 
 ^ST^^^fnt-co^tL^eVL^tTfS^ 
 
 S ConSoTthe purpose of carrying out the provisions of said agreements the claims 
 o SfduS Mississippi Choctaw Indians to be identified and to be enrolled as en- 
 titled to share in the property of the Choctaw Nation were fully considered by the 
 €ommission to the Five CiviUzed Tribes and by the department after full hearmg at 
 wCrthe claimants had ample opportunity to present all the evidence which they 
 Jould procure in support of their'^claims. Very few claimants were able to prove 
 descent from an ancestor who received or appUed for benefits under the provisions of 
 
 ^'Thl httor?of*the Dawes Commission enrollment work relative to Mississippi Choc- 
 taw claimanta is very fully set out in a communication of Apnl 14,_ 1914, from Wilham 
 O. Beall, at one time secretary of the Commission to the Five Oivihzed Tnbea. A 
 <:opvthereof is inclosed for your information. „,,,... . ^t_ ., , • j 
 
 For vour further information as to the history of the Mississippi Choctaw claims and 
 of the department action in the preparation of the final rolls there is mclosed a copy 
 of department letter of July 2, 1912, to the chairman of the Committee on Indian 
 Affairs of the House of Bepresentatives. , t , . rr^i, n-u ^ 
 
 Judge William H H. Clayton in his decision m the case of Jack Amos v. ibe Choctaw 
 Nation a copy of wluch mav be found in the appendix of the annual report of the 
 Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes for the fiscal year ended June 30, 1901, said 
 that no treaty or acts of the Choctaw Council or of any ofiicer of the Choctaw Council 
 flince the treaty of 1830 could be cited, or at least he had not found them, whereby any 
 right or privilege had been conferred, granted, or recognized in or to a Mississippi 
 Choctaw so long as he remained away from his people, and that no right was recog- 
 nized or conferred upon such absent Indian except upon the condition that he should 
 remo ve to the nation, and the right was not to be consummated or enjoyed until actual 
 removal. . , . , .n 
 
 Mississippi Choctaw Indians who, while the opportunity was theirs under the 
 privileges accorded them, refused to emigrate with the tribe to the new country 
 west, and who never shared in the burdens and hardships of the pioneer life incident 
 to the establishment of the new tribal government west of the Mississippi, have at 
 this late date (now that the tribal property of the Choctaw Nation made valuable by 
 the emigrants is being divided per capita among the enrolled recognized citizens of 
 the nation) no equitable right to share in said property. 
 
 With respect to persons who were identified by the Dawes Commission as Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws under the provisions of the act of Congress of June 28, 1898 (30 Stat. 
 L., 495), but who failed to remove and make settlement in the Choctaw-Chickasaw 
 country, as required by the act of Congress of July 1, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641, sees. 41, 
 42, 43, and 44), it may be said that, irrespective of their unfortunate condition of 
 poverty and ignorance, there is no ground, legal or equitable, for holding the Choctaw 
 and Chickasaw Nations responsible for the failure of said identified persons to com- 
 ply with the law as to removal and settlement. No obligation rested upon the 
 TJnited States to provide means for the removal of such Indians. .... 
 
 Referring to the class of claimants whose names were contained in an identification 
 roll submitted by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes on March 10, 1899, 
 but never approved by the Secretary of the Interior, your attention is invited to the 
 fact that the commission soon recogaized the inaccuracy and incompleteness of that 
 roll and requested the department to disregard it and to return the same to the com- 
 mission. In order that there might be no doubt as to the standing of said roll, it 
 was disapproved by the department on March 1, 1907. The larger part of the persons 
 whose names were contained on that disapproved roll were afterwards placed on the 
 approved identification rolls, and those who complied with the law as to removal 
 and settlement were enrolled on the final rolls of the Mississippi Choctaw Indians. 
 
 In the investigation and examination of Mississippi Choctaw claims made in 1900 
 and the years following by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes every effort 
 that was possible to be made was made by said commission to reach all persons who 
 had any equitable claim to recognition as Mississippi Choctaws, and especially to 
 find those who were full-blood Choctaw Indians. 
 
 H. R.4536 and H. R. 12586 in effect provide, so far as the Mississippi Choctaw claim- 
 ants are concerned, a general reopening of the rolls of the Choctaw Nation, necessitat- 
 ing a review of all the cases which had been adversely decided by the United States 
 courts, the Department of the Interior, and the Choctaw and Chickasaw Citizenship 
 Court, as well as the consideration of claims not heretofore presented or considered, 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 97 
 
 and empower the Secretary of the Interior to determine the rights of the claimants 
 upon such e^adence as may be produced by the api.licants, without regard to any 
 adverse judgment or decision heretofore rendered by any court or commission to tlie 
 Five Civilized Tribes, or the Department of the Interior, and without regard to any 
 condition or di<abihty heretofore imposed bv any act of Congress 
 
 The records of tlie department show that SlibJssippi Choctaw claimants have been 
 to an unusual extent the victims of numerous extortionate contracts and the corre- 
 spondence in many cixses indicates that contracts wero obtained tliroiigh misrepre- 
 sentations as to the facts, an.l in some cases that such contracts wera obtainde from 
 clamiants who believed that the persons obtaining the contracts were Government 
 agents, lour attention is invited to the report of Inspector McLaughlin, of this 
 department, which report appears m print in the Congressional Record of Julv 10 
 1914, commencing on page 13022. ' 
 
 Referring to section 9 of said bills, I am of the opinion that, in view of the large 
 amount of tribal property yet to be disposed of and of other matters affecting the 
 tribes. It would be nadvisable to abolish the tribal organization of the Ohoctaw and 
 Chickasaw jSations at the present time. 
 
 In view of the facts as presented to me, I am of the opirion that no legislation 
 should be enacted for the reopeniag of the rolls of the Checluv,- Nation for the bei.efit 
 of the Mississippi Choctaw claimants. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Franklin K, Lane. 
 Hon. John H. Stephens, 
 
 Chairman Committei' uii Indian A fairs, House of Heprescntatives. 
 
 Muskogee, Okla., April 14, 1914. 
 The Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 
 Muskogee, Okla. 
 
 Sir: In conformity with our conversation of yesterday, I have the following to 
 advise with reference to the procedure of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes 
 in the matter of the identification and enrollment of the so- termed "Mississippi 
 Choctaws." 
 
 I desire to preface this statement by ad^'ising that I entered the employ of the Com- 
 mission to the Five Civilized Tribes on or about June 1, 1899, and that the matters 
 referred to as occurring prior to that date are not from my personal knowledge, but 
 from my familiarity with the records of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 During the latter part of the year 1899 and the years 1900, 1901, 1902, and 1903 I 
 was clerk in charge of the Choctaw-Chickasaw enrollment division and was secretary 
 to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes during the years 1904 and 1905. As 
 secretary to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes I also had supervision over 
 the enrollment work in the Choctaw and Ghicka.saw Natir^ns, and after the abolition of 
 the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes I was appointed assistant commissioner to 
 the Five Civilized Tribes, in which capacity I continued until my resignation, on 
 December 31, 1906. During the latter period I also had supervision over the enroll- 
 ment work in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. 
 
 The designation or term "Mississippi Choctaw" was not applied to any particular 
 class of applicants in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations until subsequent to the 
 approval of the act of Congress of June 7, 1897 (30 Stats. L., 75), which provided: 
 
 "That the commission appointed to negotiate with the five Civilized Tribes in 
 the Indian Territory shall examine and report to Congress whether the Mississippi 
 Choctaws under their treaties are not entitled to all the rights of Choctaw citizenship, 
 excepting an interest in the Choctaw annuities." 
 
 The act of Congress approved June 10, 1896 (29 Stats. L., 321), authorized and 
 directed the Commission co the Five Ci-\'ilized Tiibes to proceed at once to hear and 
 determine the applications of all persons applying to them for citizenship m any of 
 the Five Civilized Tribes. This act further requhed that such applications should 
 be made to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes within three months after 
 the passage of the act and for the determination of such appUcations by the commis- 
 sion within 90 days after the same were mads. An appeal was also provided from 
 the decision of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes to the United States 
 court in the Indian Territory. The act limited the time within which such appeal 
 could be periected to 60 days from the rendition of the judgment or decision of the 
 Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 Under the act of Congress of June 10, 1896 (29 Stats., L., 321), a great number of 
 applications for admission to citizenship in the Choctaw Nation were filed with the 
 
 82833— VOL 1—15 7 
 
98 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Commiasion to the Five Civilized Tribes. Numerous of these applications were sub- 
 mitted by persons who were residents of the Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory, and 
 whose names were on the tribal rolls and whose rights to citizenship and enrollment 
 it was undoubtedly not the intention of Congress for the Commission to the Five 
 Civilized Tribes to adjudicate under the act of June 10, 1896. There were also a num- 
 ber of applications filed with the commission under this act by persons residing in the 
 State of Slississippi, the majority of whom were full-blood Choctaw Indians, and who 
 were applying to be admitted to Choctaw citizenship and enrolled as citizens by blood 
 of the Choctaw Nation. The majority of these persons were included in a blanket 
 application, filed with the commission under the act of Congress of June 10, 1896, and 
 entitled " Jack Amos et al. v. The Choctaw Nation." These applications alleged that 
 the applicants n'"ere Choctaw Indians, residing in the State of Mississippi, and under 
 the laws, treaties, and customs of the Choctaw Nation were entitled to citizenship 
 and enrollment in the Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory. These applications were 
 all denied by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, and from such decisions 
 appeals were' perfected to the Unitea States Court for the Central District of the Indian 
 Territory, wliere tha action of the Dawes Commission was affirmed, the court setting 
 forth his views in the opinion in the leading case of Jack Amos et al. v. The Choctaw 
 Nation, 
 
 In the Jack Amos case the court found that the proof showed that the claimants 
 were Choctaw Indians by blood living in the State of Mississippi, but that neither 
 they nor their- ancestors had ever remo^'ed into the present Choctaw Nation. The 
 claimants based their rights to be enrolled as Choctaw citizens upon the terms of 
 the second and fourteenth articles of the treaty negotiated at Dancing Rabbit Creek 
 on September 27, 1830, and of the conditions of the patent to the lands of the Choc- 
 taw Nation executed by President Tyler in the year 1842. The court, after discuss- 
 ing at length the nature of the title held by the Choctaw Nation ander the grant of 
 1842 and the provisions and effect of articles 2 and 14 of the treaty of September 27, 
 1830, reached the conclusion that absent Mississippi Choctaws were not entitled to 
 be em-olled as citizens of the Choctaw Nation, the court finding: 
 
 "Nowhere within the whole treaty is any right recognized or conferred on an 
 absent Indian except on the condition that he shall remove into the nation, and 
 the right is not to be consummated or enjoyed until after actual removal. No 
 treaty or act of the Choctaw Council or of any oflicer of the Choctaw Nation, since 
 the treaty of 1830, can be cited, or at least I have not found them, whereby any right 
 or privilege has been conferred, granted, or recognized in or to a Mississippi Choctaw 
 so long as he shall remain away from his people ; but there are an infinitude of such acts 
 and conduct granting and recognizing such rights and privileges to him after he shall 
 have removed." 
 
 The opinion of the court in the Jack Amos case is set forth in full on page 92 of the 
 report of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes for the year ended June 30, 
 Xo9y. 
 
 „.I* '^®^'^?.^^§®,^ ?,'^'^ insisted to Congress, after the action of the Commission to the 
 iiye Civihzed Tribes and of the United States court in Indian Temtory in denying 
 this class of Indians who resided in the State of Mississippi the right to citizenship 
 and to enrollment m the Choctaw Nation under the provisions of the act of Congress 
 
 ??I'q°/Io'Iw'%^°' }!?^ [^^ Stats. L., 321), Congress incorporated in the act of June 7, 
 1879 (30 btats. L., 75), the provision — 
 
 "That the commission appointed to negotiate with the Five Civilized Tribes in 
 the Indian Territory shall examine and report to Congress whether the Mississippi 
 Choctaws, under their treaties, are not entitled to all the rights of Choctaw citizen- 
 ship, excepting an interest m the Choctaw annuities " 
 
 In conformity with this legislation the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 on January 28, 1898 submitted a report to Congress, which is set forth in full on page 
 Indpd lli^ln i«QQ %^°™°'fT'' *?.-*^® ^^^® CiviUzed Tribes for the fiscal year 
 SfstaTelas mLs:' '°"'''^'^"°" '"^^ ''"''' *^^ Commission to the Five Civilfzed 
 
 resJii!ni'i'f?i°.-P^"^-P''-*® ^?-*^'' privileges of a Choctaw citizen and still retain a 
 Court T^thp TV ^^n'^P.'"? Mississippi has recently come before the United States 
 The ^hncJl w^r. ' m"'=*i\'1 ^^^ l^'^T Territory, in the case of Jack Amos et al. v. 
 of Misi^irZ n^TlJ^?- ^^^ °''< *^1 '^f'^??* "^ *^** ^°'"*- This case was an appeal 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 99 
 
 brethren there, claim participation in all the privileges of a Choctaw citizen save 
 participation m theu- annuities, still, if any person presents himself, claimin'o- this 
 right, he must be required by some tribunal to prove the fact that he is a descendant 
 of some one of those Indians who originally availed themselves of and conformed to 
 the requirements of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830. The time for making 
 application to this commission to be enrolled as a Choctaw citizen has expired It 
 would be necessary, therefore, to extend by law the time for persons claiming this 
 right to make application and be heard by this commission, or to create a new tribunal 
 for that purpose. 
 
 "In conclusion, it seems to the commission that the importance of a correct decision 
 of this question, both to the Mississippi Choctaws and the Choctaw Nation, justifies 
 a provision for a judicial decision in a case provided for that purpose. They therefore 
 suggest that, m proper form, jurisdiction may be given the Court of Claims to pass 
 judicially upon this question in a suit brought for that purpose by either of the inter- 
 ested parties." 
 
 The suggestion of the Commission to tiie Five Ci^'ilized Tribes that Congress author- 
 ize the institution of a test suit in the ( 'ourt of Claims to determine what rights if any 
 the Choctaw Indians residing in the State of ?^'ississippi had to citizonship and enroll- 
 ment in the Choctaw Nation in Indian Territory was not followed, but Congress did 
 incorporate m the act of (\mgress of June 28, 1898 (30 Stats. L., 495), the following 
 provision: 
 
 "That said commission shall ha^.-e authority to determine the identity of Choctaw 
 Indians claiming rights in the Choctaw lands' under article 14 of the treaty between 
 the United States and the Choctaw Nation, concluded Peptember 27, 1830, and to 
 that end may administer oaths, examine witnesses, and perform all other acts neces- 
 sary thereto and make report to the Secretary of the Interior." 
 
 The enrollment work under the provisions of the act ot June 28, ] 898, was begun 
 in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations in the fall of the year 1898, when the com- 
 mission held appointments in the Chickasaw Nation, for the purpose of enrolling the 
 citizens and freedmen of that nation. 
 
 The commission had arranged to commence the work of identifying Choctaws in 
 the State of Mississippi under the last above-quoted provision of law on December 
 19, 1898, but, owing to the negotiations which at that time were being had with the 
 Cherokee Commission and later with the Creek Commission, the Mississippi Choctaw 
 appointments were postponed until January 24, 1899, when Commissioner McKennon, 
 in charge of a small field party, went to the State of Mississippi and held appoint- 
 ments in the counties of Leake, Nashoba, and Newton. Upon the return of Commis- 
 sioner McKennon and this field party from the State of Mississippi the commission, 
 under date ot March 10, 1899, prepared and submitted to the Secretary of the Interior 
 a report as to the identification of Mississippi Choctaws, transmitting therewith a 
 schedule or roll of 1,923 persons, identified by the Commission to the Five CiviUzed 
 Tribes as Mississippi Choctaws under the provisions of the act of Congress of June 28, 
 
 1898. The report ot the commission transmitting this schedule or roll is set out in 
 full on page 77 of the annual report of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes 
 for the fiscal year ended June 30, 1899. The commission, in submitting this schedule, 
 stated in its report; 
 
 "We are satisfied that there are yet from 300 to 500 full-blood Choctaw Indians in 
 the State of Mississippi who did not appear before the commission and whose names it 
 did not secure, many ot whom are residing in different portions ot the State, only a 
 few in each county, their locations not definitely known, while many others, living 
 in the counties visited, refused to appear tor identification, tearing that advantage 
 would be taken ot them and that they would be forced to remove to the Indian 
 Territory." 
 
 During the appointments in the State ot Mississippi, from January 24 to February 10, 
 
 1899, and subsequently in the Indian Territory, up to and inclusive of June 30, 1900, 
 1,665 persons made application to the commission for identification as Mississippi 
 Choctaiws, whom the commission was unable to identify as Mississippi Choctaws under 
 the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830. 
 
 In submitting its annual report for the fiscal year ended June 30, 1900, the_ com- 
 mission stated as follows, in reference to the so-termed "Mississippi Choctaws : 
 
 "The number of persons identified as Mississippi Choctaws, and reported to the 
 Secretary of the Interior in report ot March 10, 1899 (Sixth Annual Report, pp. 77 
 to 80, inclusive), is 1,923. The number ot persons who have made application to the 
 coimnission for identification as Mississippi Choctaws and have been given a hearing, 
 whom the commission has been unable to identify as Mississippi Choctaws entitled 
 to share in the Choctaw lands under the provisions of the fourteenth article ot the 
 treaty of 1830, up to and including June 30, 1900, is 1,665. 
 
IQQ INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 "Sinre it has become generally known that the commission is without authority 
 to enroll any person as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation unless he has been duly recog- 
 rdzed by the tribal authorities of that nation as a citizen thereof or his name appears 
 Ton some of the tribal rolls of that nation, or that he was admitted to citizenship in 
 the Choctaw Nation by this commission, acting under the fsct of Congress approved 
 June 10, 1896, or by the decree of the United States courts for the Indian Territpryj 
 and that persons are permitted to make application for identification as Mississippi 
 Choctaws the tendency seems to have been for all Choctaw applicants to apply as 
 Mississippi Choctaws. The opinion seems to be prevalent among the ignorant classes 
 of people that all that is necessary to entitle them to be identified as Mississippi 
 Choctaws is to prove that some of their ancestors were Choctaws, and at me tune 
 resided in the State of Mississippi. This they in most cases have no trouble m doing, 
 at least to their own satisfaction; but in no instance m the Indian Territory has an 
 applicant proved conclusively that any of his ancestors ever, in fact, took advantage 
 of the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830, and received land m 
 
 Mississippi thereunder. t ^t t ^ ■ f in- i, i n i onn 
 
 "The commission, in its report to the Secretary of the Interior of March 10, 1899, 
 as to the identity of Mississippi Choctaws, in conclusion stated as follows: 
 
 " ' Y\'e are satisfied that there are yet from 300 to 500 full-blood Choctaw Indians ui 
 the State of Jlississippi who did not appear before the commission and whose names 
 it did not secure, many of whom are residing in different portions of the State, only a 
 few in each county, their location not definitely known, while many others, living in 
 the counties visited, refused to appear for identiilcation, fearing that advantage would 
 be taken of them and that thev would be forced to remove to the Indian Territory.' 
 
 "Being desirous of granting to such full-blood Indians residing in the State of Mis- 
 sissippi as have not yet appeared before the commission and made application such 
 an opportunity, the commission has made an appointment at Hattiesburg, Union 
 County, Miss., from December 17 to December 22, 1900, inclusive. The commission 
 will at that time and place hear such persons as may present themselves and make 
 application for identification as Mississippi Choctaws. 
 
 ''In the opinion of the commission sufficient time and opportunity has been granted 
 to all persons to take advantage of the provisions of the act of June 28, 1898, and it has, 
 therefore, to recommend legislation terminating the hearing of such applications, so 
 that the final report may be made by the commission as to the result of its efforts in 
 the matter of the identification of Mississippi Choctaw Indians entitled to share in 
 the division of the Choctaw lands under the proA-isions of the fourteenth article of the 
 treaty of 1830, as contemplated by the act of June 28, 1898. 
 
 "This report should be made to the Secretary of the Interior, in our opinion, a suffi- 
 cient time before the final closing of the rolls of the Choctaw_ Nation, so that those 
 Indians who have been identified by the commission as entitled to enrollment as 
 citizens of the Choctaw Nation under the provisions of the act of May 31, 1900, may 
 be properly enrolled upon the final rolls of the citizens of the Choctaw Nation to be 
 submitted by the commission to the Secretary of the Interior for his approval." 
 
 In comformity with the previous announcement of the commission, the appointment 
 was held at Hattiesburg, Miss., from December 17 to 22, 1900, for the express purpose 
 of affording an opportunity to the 300 to 500 fidl-blood Indians who did not appear 
 before the commission at the appointment held between January 24 and February 10, 
 1899, to make application for identification as Mississippi Choctaws under the legisla- 
 tion of June 28, 1803. At this appointment 93 appUcations for 355 persons were 
 submitted. The insufliciency of the Hattiesburg appointment having been demon- 
 strated, the commission deemed it advisable to provide for several appointments in 
 the State of Mississippi, for the purpose of affording these full-blood Indians an oppor- 
 tunity to appear before the commission and be examined under oath, and, with this 
 end in view, an office was established at Meridian, Miss., on April 1, 1901. 
 
 The field party, which opened an office at Meridian on April 1, 1901, was equipped 
 with the various rolls and reports of the commissions appointed by the acts of Congress 
 approved March 3, 1837, and August 23, 1842, with the schedule of the Mississippi 
 Choctaws identified by the commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, as set forth in 
 the report of March 10, 1899, and with indexes of those persons who had applied for 
 admission to citizenship in the Choctaw Nation under the act of Congress of June 10, 
 1896 (29 Stat. L., 321), and for enrollment as citizens of the Choctaw Nation under 
 section 21 of the act of June 28, 1898 (30 Stat. L. 495). 
 
 The progress of the commission in dealing with the Mississippi Choctaw question 
 up to June 30, 1901, is set forth in the report of the Commission to the Five Civilized 
 Tribes for that year, as follows: 
 
 " Undoubtedly no branch of the commission's work has encountered more difficulties 
 during the past year than that relating to Mississippi Choctaws. The authority 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 101 
 
 under i\;liidi the commission is empowered to act is contained in the following Pro- 
 vision of l;iw: ^ ' 
 
 "'Said commission shall have authority to determine the identity of Choctaw 
 Indians claiming rights m the Choctaw lands under article fourteen of the treaty 
 between the United States and the Choctaw Nation, concluded September twenty- 
 seventh, eighteen hundred and thirty, and to that end they may administer oaths 
 examine witnesses, and perform all other acts necessary thereto, and make report to 
 the Secretary of the Interior. (Fourth paragraph, sec. 21, act of Congress approved 
 June 28, 1898).' ^'^ 
 
 "The fourteenth article of the treat>' of 1830, referred to in the above quotation is 
 as follows: 
 
 " ' Art. XIV. Each Choctaw head of a family, being desirous to remain and become 
 a citizen of the State, shall be permitted to do so by signifying his intention to the 
 agent within six months from the ratification of this treaty, and' he or she shall there- 
 upon be entitled to a reservation of one section of six hundred and forty acres of land, 
 to be bounded by sectional lines of survey; in like manner shall be entitled to one- 
 half that quantity for each unmanied child wliich is living ^vith him over ten years 
 of age, and a quarter section to such child as may be under ten years of age, to adjoin 
 the location of the parent. If they reside upon said lands, intending.,' to become citi- 
 zens of the States, for five years after the ratiticaiion of this tieaty, in that case a 
 grant in fee simple shall issue. Said re--ervaiiuu .<!hall include the present improve- 
 ments of the hej.d of the family, o'- a portion of it. Pe,rsons who claim under this 
 ai'ticle shall not loee the privilege of a Choctaw citizen, but if they ever remove, are 
 not entitled to any portion of th« < 'hoctaw annuity.' 
 
 "Again: 
 
 '"Thatany Mississippi Choctaw, duly identified as such by the United States Com- 
 mission to the Five Civilized Tribes, shall have the right at any time prior to the 
 approval of the final rolls of the Choctaws and Chickasaws by the Secretarj' of the 
 Interior, to make settlement within the Choctaw-Chickasaw country, and on'proof of 
 the fact of bona fide settlement may be enrolled by the said United States Commission 
 and by the Secretary of the Interior as Choctaws entitled to allotment: Provided 
 further, That all contracts or agreements looking to the sale or incumbrance in any 
 way of the lands to be allotted to said Mississippi Choctaws shall be null and void. 
 (Indian appropriation act, approved May 31, 1900.)' 
 
 "The obligations imposed to decide whether an applicant is entitled to rights in 
 the Choctaw lands in Indian Territory as a descendant of a Choctaw Indian who resided 
 in Mississippi in 1830, and who may or may not have complied with a certain provision 
 of a treaty now over 70 years old, developed a subject most difficult to deal with. 
 
 "Often, if not generally, the connecting link in the way of reliable evidence is found 
 to be lacking, and perhaps impossible of discovery. From July 1 to November 30, 
 1900, all applications of this character were heard at the general office at Muskogee. 
 Day after day and week after week crov, ds of peope, showing absolutely no trace of 
 Indian blood, whites and negroes of all ages and conditions, -nere making applica- 
 tions under a vague idea of their rights. During this time there were heard £41 of 
 such original applications, embracing 2,098 persons. An appointment ha.ving been 
 advertised for the hearing of the applicants for identification as Mississippi Chccta-ns 
 at Hattieburg, Perry County, I\Iiss., from iJecember 17 to 22, 1900, inclusive, an office 
 was opened at that point in accordance therewith. Here a different character of appli- 
 cants presented themselves, a majorit\ being full-blood ( hcctaw Indians, unable to 
 speak the English language. \\ hile this appointment had been thoroughly advertised 
 by printed notices being mailed to ever^- post office in the State of Mississiiipi and to a 
 large number of individuals, and in addition thereto was publishtd m numerous 
 newspapers in that State, still it did not receive that attention and ccnsideration by 
 the full-blood Choctaw Indians, the class of persons whom it was esiecially the desire 
 of the commission to reach, that was anticipated. During this week -r ere heard 98 
 original applications, embracing 355 persons for identification as Mississippi Choctaws 
 
 "After the above-named appointment, and upon the return of the party sent to 
 Hattiesburg, it was decided to locate, at least temporarily, an office at Atoka, in the 
 Choctaw Nation, the most central geographical point m the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations. On January 2, 1901, this office was opened, and it has since been main- 
 tained with satisfactory results. It is supplied with complete records and files ot 
 the Mississippi Choctaw cases. In addition to hearing 636 applications for identifica- 
 tion as Mississippi Choctaws, embracing 825 persons, it has also performed a very large 
 amount of clerical work incident to this branch of business. , • ^v, 
 
 "The insufficiency of the appointment, previously referred to of one week m the 
 State of Mississippi having been demonstrated, it was deemed advisable to again 
 send a party to that State. An office was opened at Meridian, Lauderdale County, 
 
]^Q2 INDIAjg^ APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mks on Auril 1 1901, for hearing the applications of claimants as Mississippi Choc- 
 tews" saMoCe to be continued indefinitely as conditions might require.. .This office 
 Cbeen continued^^th satisfactory results, and it has received 878 original appli- 
 
 ''"rom^pSlg'to ■May^'w": an appointment was held at Philadelphia, Neshoba 
 County I^s During thi^ tim^ there were heard 76 applications, embracing 229 
 
 ^^'lYom May 6 to 11, 1901, an appointment was held at Carthage, Leake County, 
 Miss., and there were heard 56 original applications, embracing 203 persons. 
 
 " At Decatur, Newton County, Miss., there was an appointment from May 13 to 18, 
 at which there were heard 33 appUcations, embracing 101 persons. 
 
 "M all of these appointments perhaps one-half of the applicants who presented 
 themselves were full-blood Choctaws, the majority of them being unable to speak 
 English, and the examinations were conducted through an interpreter. 
 
 "The treaty between the United States and the Choctaws of September 27, 1830, 
 and known as the 'Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek,' was designed by the Govern- 
 ment to secure the removal of the Choctaws from east of the Mississippi River to lands 
 set aside for them west of the Mississippi River in Indian Terntory. It was supposed 
 that they could there continue indefinitely their tribal government and their cus- 
 toms undisturbed by the white race. As is known, however, many of the. citizens 
 of this tribe were unwilling to leave their old home east of the Mississippi River, and 
 as an accommodation of this difficulty there was provided the fourteenth article of 
 the treaty of 1830. It is known that many Choctaws remained east of the Mississippi 
 River for the piupose of av&.iling themselves of the provisions of this article. 
 
 "The conduct of the Government's Indian agent. Col. Ward, at the time of the 
 removal of the Choctaws has been continuously the subject of much adverse criti- 
 cism. It is understood that the original list of Choctaws who sought to avail them- 
 selves of the benefits of the fourteenth article of the treaty, which is known as 'Ward's 
 register,' shows but a fractional part of the applicants who actually. signified within 
 six months after the ratification of the treaty their intention of remaining. 
 
 "The United States commission appointed under the act of Congress approved 
 March 3, 1837, and the United States commission appointed under the act of Congress 
 approved August 23, 1842, endeavored to right this wrong done the Mississippi Choc- 
 taws and their dest endants. The work of these two commissions resulted in placing 
 upon different lists the names of over 3,400 Indian appUcants who proved to the 
 satisfaction of the respective commissions before whom they appeared that. they were 
 guilty of no laches in their efforts to make such declarations as were required under 
 the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek. 
 
 "By a strict interpretation of the terms of that treaty all claimants under article 
 14 failing to be recognized on Ward's list were debarred, together with their descend- 
 ants, from receiving the benefits as Choctaw Indians; but by a liberal construction 
 the Government, by appointing the commissions of 1837 and 1842, adopted a policy 
 both just and reasonable, and declared that substantial justice should be done the 
 Mississippi Choctaws, both as to his property rights in Mississippi under. the four- 
 teenth article of the treaty of 1830 and his rights in the Choctaw Nation in Indian 
 Territory should he or his descendants desire at any time to remove thereto. Some 
 of the apphcants before Col. Ward received patents for their lands, but many did 
 not, while many made the preliminary declaration or attempted to do so before him, 
 but no record of such declaration was made. 
 
 "The question now presents itself, can a roll of the citizens of the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw tribes be made or submitted to the department for approval untU the 
 final adjudication or settlement of these Mississippi Choctaw claims has been effected? 
 Requiring a strict compliance with the fourteenth article of the treat;/ of 1830 by 
 ignorant full-blood Indians in the State of Mississippi will produce but little, if any, 
 results favorable to them. That these Indians now live there and that they and 
 their families and foreparents have lived there for the past 70 years is unquestionable; 
 that they are Choctaw Indians no one can doubt. They speak the same language as 
 the Choctaws residing in Indian Territory and have the same manners and customs 
 and general appearances. Are they to be precluded from ever sharing in the prop- 
 erty rights of the Choctaw Nation in Indian Territory, or shall the Government oi 
 the United States and the Choctaw Nation, in their generosity, adopt and make them 
 citizens of the Choctaw Nation? Even such an act of generosity would be httle 
 benefit to them, for without means of removal they would be unable, poor as they 
 are, to reach the rich lands of the Choctaw Nation that might be bestowed upon them. 
 Reference is here made to the neglected full-blood Choctaw Indians now residing in 
 Mississippi, and not to the great army of apparent whites and negroes who have pre- 
 sented themselves in the State of Mississippi and in Indian Territory, but whose 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 103 
 
 cases also require solution. With the latter class the general conditions, surround- 
 ings, and appearances are not favorable evidence, and it seems that respecting this 
 class the only rule just to the Choctaw Nation and such applicants is by lending 
 reasonable and proper assistance to the ignorant claimant to develop his case, yet to 
 to consider that the burden of proof is and should be upon the applicant, and that 
 he should be required, after being given a fair understanding of the terms andvcon- 
 ditions of the fourteenth article of the treatv of 1830, to show that he has complied 
 with that article, or that he is entitled to its benefits by lawful descent from an ances- 
 tor who has complied therewith." 
 
 The commission, after submitting this report and recognizing the inaccuracy and 
 incompleteness of the schedule of identified Mississippi Choctaws prepared and sub- 
 mitted with the report of March 10, 1899, requested the withdrawal thereof from the 
 department and that it be disregarded, the commission to proceed anewin the identi- 
 fication of ilississippi Choctaws irrespective of the schedule submitted with the report 
 of ifarch 10, 1899. 
 
 It was with the opening of the appointments in Mississippi in the spring of 1901 that 
 the commission was flooded with that great number of applications from apparently 
 white people, living in all parts of the country, claiming to be entitled to identification 
 as Mississippi Choctaws by reason of the possession of some slight degree of Choctaw 
 Indian blood. It was first the policy of the commission to treat these applications in 
 a perfunctory manner, but the department censured this procedure and remanded 
 all such cases with instructions to afford the applicants full opportunity for presenting 
 their claims. The procedure of the commission for tile next two years is fully set forth 
 on pages 22 to 28, inclusive, of the annual report of the commission to the Five Civilized 
 Tribes for the fiscal year ended June 30, 1902, and pages 16 and 17 of the annual report 
 of the commission to the Five Civilized Tribes for the fiscal year ended June 30, 1903. 
 
 We now come to the proposition wliich we had under discussion yesterday, as set 
 forth in Mr. Hurley's letter of March 27, 1914, to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, 
 as follows: . . , , ^, . 
 
 "Were any Mississippi Choctaws denied enrollment as citizens of the Choctaw 
 Nation by the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court? If so, how many? " 
 
 This question will have to be answered in the affirmative. As to the number of 
 persons, full-blood Choctaw Indians, residing in the State of Mississippi and iden- 
 tified by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes as JMississippi Choctaws under 
 the legislation of June 28, 1898, and July 1, 1902, and who were demed citizenship 
 in' the Choctaw Nation by the Chocta^^--Chickasaw citizenship court will have to be 
 obtained from the various records of your office. As an example of this character of 
 cases permit me to once again call your attention to the case of Jack Amos, which 
 has heretofore been referred to in this report. ■ ■ ^ ^, -r,- 
 
 On- May 24 1901, Jack Amos made application to the Commission to the Iiive 
 Civilized Tribes for identification as a Mississippi Choctaw under the legislation of 
 June 28 1898 The record of that application shows that an application was tor- 
 merlv made to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes by Jack Amos when 
 he applied for citizenship in the Choctaw Nation under the act of Congress approved 
 June 10, 1896, and that he was denied on December I, 1896, and that this decision 
 was affirmed by the United States Court for the Central District of the Indian Ter- 
 ritory on A:ugust 25, 1897; also that the name of Jack>mos appeared opposite No 
 1727 of the Schedule of Mississippi Choctaws transmitted with the report of the 
 Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes of March 10, 1899. . „,>,„^„i„ 
 
 Notwithstanding the fact that the name of Jack Amos appeared upon the schedule 
 transmitted with the report of March 10, 1899, the commission, after the | t^rawa 
 of that report, proceeded to adjudicate his rights to identification as a Miss s^^^^^^ 
 Choctaw independent thereof. Before determination was made of the apphcation tor 
 iTentSon^^ a ^lississippi Choctaw, of May 24, 1901 a Pef ^t^°f /"^.^PPT^titor^ 
 the decree of the United States Court for the Central District of the Indian Te^^^^^^^ 
 
 of August 25, 1897, --> o" ^e-m^- o's' trde'k'of'^e SStK^res'^ottZ 
 raSl^m^cTofThe'TnS\eS|rrcen^^ to f^^^^^.o^^f^^^^f -" 
 Chickasaw citizenship court a copy of the judgment ^f. P™.^,'',*^^"^^^ \Xv and 
 before the United States Court for th,=. Centra I^^t'-''^.V°i*i^^^'''^^/„7M?Aiet^^^^ 
 the cause was docketed in the Choctaw-Chickasaw ^itifenshrp court as McAl^Bster 
 
 cause was clocketea m tne uuoci<i,w-vjui...v"-.c,, „„„„_ ^ nendine in the 
 
 No. 9. Without reference to the proceedmgs which ,^"^-P°° P^gTw^^ 
 .nuctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court,, the Commission to the ^^^^^^^^^^^'f^H-blood 
 
104 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 No. 380, which was submitted to and approved by the Secretary of the Interior April 
 
 ^'Th!f records of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes fail to show that Jack 
 Amos removed to and established a residence in the Choctaw-Chickasaw country 
 within the time prescribed by the act of July 1, 1902, or.that he has ever received an 
 allotment of land or any other benefits by reason of such identification as a Mississippi 
 
 UndS'the legislation of July 1, 1902, Jack Amos had six months from the date of 
 his identification as a Mississippi Choctaw within whichto remove to and establish 
 a residence in the Choctaw Nation. The s.x months expired August 14, IflOS. Dur- 
 ing this period the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court had beiore it tor determina- 
 tion tiie case of Jack Amos v. the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, and on September 
 9 1903 the attorneys for the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations filed with the Choctaw- 
 Chickasaw citizenship court a motion to dismiss the case for the reason that Jack 
 Amos had been identified as a Mississippi Choctaw by the Commission to the Five 
 Civilized Tribes under the provisions of the acts of Congress of June 28, 1898, and July 
 1, 1902, and— , ., , , , . , 
 
 "That the jurisdiction which the applicant invokes at the hands of this honorable 
 court and the jurisdiction of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes as regards 
 application for citizenship as 'Mississippi Choctaws' are concurrent, and rights of 
 citizenship following the admission by either tribunal would be identical and similar 
 in every respect." 
 
 Briefs were subsequently filed on behalf of both Jack Amos and the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Nations before the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court, it being con- 
 tended on behalf of the applicant, Jack Amos, that, notwithstanding the adjudication 
 in his favor by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes and the honorable Secre- 
 tary of the Interior as an identified Mississippi Choctaw, the Choctaw -Chickasaw 
 citizenship court had power to adjudicate his claini to citizenship in the Choctaw Na- 
 tion and confer upon him the additional rights incident thereto. 
 
 The attorneys for the Choctaw and (Jhickasaw Nations, after the filing of the briefs, 
 withdrew the motion to dismiss, and the cause was submitted to the court and a decree 
 was entered by the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court on March 28, 1904, ordering, 
 decreeing, and adjudging that the petition of the plaintiff. Jack Amos, be denied, and 
 that he be declared not a citizen of the Choctaw Nation, and not entitled to enrollment 
 as such citizen, and not entitlde to any rights whatever flowing therefrom. 
 
 It should be borne in mind that a great number of these full-blooded Indians who 
 resided in the State of Mississippi applied for admission to Choctaw citizenship under 
 the act of Congress of June 10, 1896, and that the jurisdiction of the Choctaw-Chicka- 
 saw citizenship court was confined to those persons who applied to the Commission 
 to the Five Civilized Tribes or the tribal authorities under the act of June 10, 1896, 
 and whose riglits were subsequently adjudicated by the United States court in Indian 
 Territory on appeal. The Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes in proceeding with 
 the work of identification of Mississippi Choctaws under the provisions of the act of 
 Congress of June 28, 1898, and sections 41 to 44, inclusive, of the supplemental Choc- 
 taw-Chickasaw agreement (act of Congress of July 1, 1902, 32 Stats. L., 641), did not 
 consider that it was bound or influenced by any action which might have been taken 
 upon the applications for citizenship in the Choctaw Nation submitted under the act 
 of Congress approved June 10, 1896, and that even the denial of the right to citizenship 
 in the Choctaw Nation by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, the United 
 States court in Indian Territory, or by the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court was 
 not prejudicial to the right to identification by the Commission to the Five Civilized 
 Tribes of the applicant as a Mississippi Choctaw under the legislation of June 28, 1898, 
 and July 1, 1902. 
 
 If my memory serves me correct, I believe the records of the commission will show 
 that all of the full-blood Indians who resided in the State of Mississippi and who made 
 application to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes for citizenship in the 
 Choctaw Nation under the act of Congress approved June 10, 1896, and who were 
 denied both by the commission and the United States Court in Indian Territory on 
 appeal subsequently applied to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes for 
 identification as Mississippi Choctaws, and were identified by the Commission to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes as Mississippi Choctaws under the legislation of July 1, 1902. 
 _ The form of examination of applicants as Mississippi Choctaws, and which was used 
 m every case after the department's instructions of June 10, 1901, in the Lizzie Wood- 
 ard and Lucinda Hibdon cases, contains the following questions: 
 
 "Q. Is your name or the name of any of these minor children to be found upon any 
 of the Choctaw tribal rolls? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 105 
 
 "Q. Have you ever made application to the Choctaw tribal authorities to be en- 
 rolled as a member of that tribe? . 
 
 "Q. Did you, or did any one for you, in 1896 make application to the Commission 
 to the Five Civilized Tribes to be admitted to citizenship, or was application made 
 for any of your minor children to be admitted to citizenship in the Choctaw Nation 
 under the act of Congress of June 10, 1896? 
 
 "Q. Have you or any of these minor qhildren ever been admitted to citizenship 
 in the Choctaw Nation by the Choctaw tribal authorities, the Commission tn the Five 
 Civilized Tribes, or the "United States Court in Indian Territory? " 
 
 The nonstruccion of the term " :Mississippi Choctaw " is susceptible of varied mean- 
 ings. If the term is construed to include only the full-blood Choctaw Indians who 
 resided in the State of Mississippi and who were identified by the Cominission to 
 the Five Civilized Tribes under the legislation of July 1, 1902, I do not believe you 
 will find many cases among the records of your office similar to the Jack Amos case — 
 that is, of persons who were itientified as Mississippi (Jhotcaws but who did not remove 
 to the Choctaw Nation and who, at the same -time, had pending claims before the 
 Ohocta,w-Chickasaw Citizenship Court, which were subsequently determined ad- 
 versely to them. If the term "Mississippi Choctaw" is to include that great body 
 of 20,000 or more apparently wliite persons who applied to the Commission to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes for id-ntificatton as Mississippi Choctaws, but who were not 
 found to be entitled under ihe legislation of 189;-; or 1902, it is probaljle that the 
 names of many of these persons will be found among those who applied and who 
 were denied by the Chocta sr-Chickasaw Citizenship Court. This condition arose 
 from the fact that many such persons whose rights to citizenship in thi? (Ihoctaw 
 Nation were pending before the Choctaw-Chickasaw Citizenship Court also applied 
 to the Commission to the Five Ci^-ilized Tribes for identification as Mississippi Choc- 
 taws, or vi( e versa. 
 
 I believe the explanation I lia-^-e gi^'(•n answers Mr. Hurley's fourth inquiry, as 
 to whether any of the applications were considered and passed upon more than one 
 time. 
 
 I anticipate that the distinctiion which must be drawn between an application 
 for admission to citizensliip in the Clioctaw Nation under the act of Juu( iO, 1896, 
 or enrollment as a citizen cif the Choctaw Nation under the act of June 28, ]S9s, 
 and for identification as a Mississippi Choctaw under the pro\isions of the acts of 
 Congress of June 2S, 1898, a, id .July 1, 1902, must be explicith- and clearly drawn, 
 for the reason that the same persons applied under the various Lgislation. 
 
 If I can assist you any further in this matter, I shall be more than pleased to do so. 
 Ilespectfull5^ 
 
 AVm. O. Beall. 
 
 January 16, 1915. 
 J. F. McMuRRAY, Esq., 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 
 Dear Sir: The per capita payment to the Choctaws is again before the Committee 
 on Indian Affairs, and Mr. Harrison of Mississippi has requested to be heard by the 
 committee, evidently in opposition to making the per capita payment until some 
 action is taken on the Mississippi Choctaw case. 
 
 I am informed that when the Choctaw and Chickasaw agreement was pending the 
 friends of the Mississippi Choctaws introduced in the Senate a proposed amendment, 
 by Senator Harris, as follows: That sections 41, 42, 43, and 44, be struck out and pro- 
 vision made as follows: 
 
 '<41. All persons heretofore identified by the Commission of the Five Civilized 
 Tribes as Mississippi Choctaws, and whose names appear upon the schedule dated 
 March 10, 1899, prepared by said commission under the provisions of the act of Con- 
 gress approved June 28, 1898 (30 Stat. L., 495), and such full-blooded Mississippi 
 Choctaw Indians as may be identified by said commission, and the wives, children, 
 and grandchildren of all such full-blood Choctaws, shall alone constitute the Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws' entitled to benefits under this agreement. 
 
 "42. All 'Mississippi Choctaws' as herein defined, who shall remove or may have 
 removed to the lands of the Choctaw and Chickasaw tnbes withm twelve nionths after 
 official notification of their identification, shall be enrolled by said commission upon 
 a separate roll designated 'Mississippi Choctaws;' and lands equal m value to lands 
 allotted to citizens of the Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes, shall in hke manner be 
 selected and set apart for each of them. All such persons who reside upon the lands 
 of the Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes for a period of one year after enrollment as above 
 provided shall, upon proof of such bona fide residence, receive patents as provided in 
 the Atoka agreement, and they shall hold the lands thus alloted to them as provided 
 
IQQ INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 in the Atoka agreement for citizens of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes, and be 
 ntm ftttrTX?med ttt"when"question came up on the floor of the House of 
 ReprSental'es, anticipating that a f^ght would be i-„f„%t^°/-^^^f,bUsl ^he" M 
 aereement so as to recognize the schedule of March 10 1899 and to establisn tne tuu- 
 E mfe of e^-idence, and provide for the mixed blood children of full-blood parents, 
 and to obviate the restriction proposed by sections 41 42 43, and 44, you proposed as 
 a compromise measure, an amendment submitted by Mr. Curtis m charge of the 
 bill X? you drew this amendment in conjunction with the Assistant Attorney Gen- 
 eral of the Interior Department, and that it was accepted by the riends of the Mis- 
 eissippi Ohoctaws as a compromise of this controversy and aa a final settlement of the 
 claims of the Mississippi Ohoctaws. . t j., „ 
 
 I understand further that for this reason you would regard ttie reopening of the rolls 
 of the Mississippi Choctaws as a violation of the compromise agreement and unfau- to 
 the Choctaws and Chickasaws West who agreed to this adjustment for the purpose of 
 getting a settlement that was intended to be permanent, the Hams amendment not 
 having been pressed after the compromise was entered mto. 
 
 Please advise me if the above statement is substantially correct as representmg the 
 truth as you remember it. 
 
 Your immediate reply will be appreciated. 
 
 Respectfully, ^^ .„ , 
 
 Henry F. Ashurst. 
 
 Washington, D. C, January 21, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Dear Sir: In answer to your favor of the 15th inst., asking information relative to 
 the amendment of Mr, Charles Curtis, of Kansas, offered in June, 1902, to the Chpctaw- 
 Chickasaw agreement then pending before Congi'ess, to the effect that the Mississippi 
 Choctaws of full blood might be enrolled as "Mississippi Choctaws" without making 
 proof that tlieir ancestors had complied with section 14 of the treaty of 1866, beg to say: 
 
 The fight at that time to enroll Mississippi Choctaws was at a white heat, the United 
 States authorities in charge of the enrollment work had held that no Choctaw or 
 Chickasaw (except Mississippi Choctaws), who had not previously established a 
 residence in the Choctaw-Chickasaw country, could under the law be enrolled. The 
 effect of this holding was immediate and made all claimants to Choctaw-Chickasaw 
 citizenship claim as "Mississippi Choctaws." 
 
 These authorities had previously rejected the application of more than 50,000 
 persons claiming to be Mississippi Choctaws, and the Dawes Commission had estimated 
 the value of a Choctaw or Chickasaw enrollment, together with the property foUowiag 
 same, to be about §8,000, so that any lawyer who could origiuate and put through a 
 successful enrollment plan for these people could see millions in it. 
 
 It was the talk of the hour and could be heard about the hotel lobbies more than any 
 other subject. Such a tempting bait naturally brought a swarm of advocates. Some 
 of the ablest and most reputable lawyers of the country were giving their talents and 
 influence to this subject, to say notliing of the army of unscrupulous persons who were 
 swarming about the flesh pots. 
 
 The first hard work for the representatives of the claimants to do, was to prepare such 
 an amendment to the bill as would do the work, and then to see that it became a part of 
 the law. 
 
 Both the Senate and House Committees ou Indian Affairs had been struggling with 
 the question for a long time. Almost daily some new plan of settlement was s Jggested 
 by some one representing the claimants. The following offered by Senator Harris is 
 one of the many plans suggested: 
 
 "41. All persons heretofore identified by the Commission of the Five CivUized 
 Tribes as Mississippi Choctaws, and whose names appear upon the schedule dated 
 March 10, 1899, prepared by said commission under the provisions of the act of Con^ 
 gross approved June 28, 1898 (30 Stat. L., 495), and such full-blooded Mississippi 
 Choctaw Indians as may be identified by said commission, and the wives, children, 
 and grandchildren of all such full-blooded Choctaws, shall alone constitute the 'Mis- 
 sissippi Choctaws ' entitled to benefits under this agreement. 
 
 "42. All 'Mississippi Choctaws' as herein defined, who shall remove or may have 
 removed to the lands of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes within twelve months 
 after official notification of their identification, shall be enrolled by said commission 
 upon a separate roll, designated 'Mississippi Choctaws'; and lands equal in value to 
 lands allotted to citizens of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes, shall in like manner 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 107 
 
 be selected and set apajt for each of them. All such persons who reside upon the lands 
 of the Choctaw and Ohicka^aw Tribes for a period of one year after enrollment as above 
 provided shaU, upon proof of suet bona fide residence, receive patents as provided 
 in tbe Atoka agreement and they shaU hold the lands thus aUotted to them as provided 
 m the Atoka agreement for citizens of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes, and be 
 treated m all respects as other Choctaws." ' 
 
 The Senators and Congressmen from Mississippi and Alabama were deeply aroused 
 over the matter. The argument you could hear made by all shades of persons, from 
 the dignified Senators of the States dii-ectly affected to the coffee coolers about the 
 claimauts camps, was that there were full-blood Choctaws m Mississippi who could 
 not even speak the English lajiguage, who had no opportunity to join their tribe, and 
 that the Choctaw-Ohickasaw Indians m the Indian Territory were rolling in wealth 
 and had more land than they could possibly use. 
 
 All parties agreed that a concession on "the part of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations at that Ume, if accepted, would be final and permit the Government to com- 
 plete without delay the division of the Choctaw-Chickasaw estate; that otherwise the 
 delay might be indefinite. This was the argument that caused the two nations to 
 make the concessions that cost them about $15,000,000. 
 
 The supplemental agreement had been before the Choctaw and Chickasaw authori- 
 ties in one form or another since 1900. 
 
 The original purpose of these people in making the agreement was to change none 
 of the laws of their tribes affecting citizenship to these tribes. They had all along 
 believed that their wishes would control as to these matters, but now it had become 
 apparent that the Government would not be entirely guided by their suggestions, 
 and they had advised me if a provision could be drawn settling the matter for all 
 time, and affecting only the full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, and not endangering 
 the rolls as to the mixed blood, to put it in. 
 
 I had become con\'iaced that a compromise was necessary to a final settlement, 
 when Mr. James S. Sherman, chairman of the Indian Committee of the House, sent 
 for me and suggested that I had best prepare an item giving the full bloods in Missis- 
 sippi another chance to go West and take lands m the Choctaw country. We together 
 went across to the Senate end of the Capitol to confer about this matter with Senator 
 Piatt of Connecticut. It was there agreed that such a provision should be prepared 
 by me and submitted to the committees; that in preparing the item I should confer 
 with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Attorney General of the Interior 
 Department. This amendment was drawn by me with the assistance of Mr. W. A. 
 Jones, Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and the able Assistant Attorney General for 
 the Interior Department. 
 
 In considering the matter I conferred with many Senators and Congressmen; among 
 others of the Senate were Senator Jones of Arkansas, Piatt of Connecticut, Quarles, 
 Morgan, McCumber, Quay, Stewart, Harris, Du Bois, Clarke of Montana, and with 
 Messrs. Sherman, Stevens, Curtis, Little, and Lacy, of the House, and many others. 
 
 The prevailing sentiment seemed to be that if a plan were offered giving the full- 
 blood Mississippi Choctaws an opportunity to move to the Choctaw Nation and take 
 lands, it would forever settle the question. 
 
 In drafting the amendment thi-i/e thoughts were uppermost in my mind: 
 
 First and paramount, to settle the Mississippi Choctaw question for all time. 
 
 Second, to give the full bloods of Mississippi an opportunity for a limited time and 
 under proper restrictions to move to the Choctaw Nation and acquire lands and become 
 permanent citizens. 
 
 Third, to eliminate the full-blood argument from the general enrollment proposition 
 of these tribes and thus avoid the danger of legislation taking a wider range. 
 
 I should, under all the circumstances, regard it as an act of very bad faith upon the 
 part of the United States Government with the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations to 
 open the doors to further admissions to their rolls, or longer delay a division of their 
 estate after these concessions by which they bought and paid for their peace. 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 J. F. McMuKRAY. 
 
 Washington, D. C, January ^2, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashubst, 
 
 Chairman Senate Com,miUee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 Dear Sir: Section 41 of the act of July 1, 1902, commonly known as the supple- 
 mentary agreement, confirmed and ratified on September 25, 1902, by a vote of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes of Indians, provided that the application of no person 
 
108 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 for identification as a Missiasippi Choctaw should be received after six months sub- 
 sequent to the date of the final ratification of said agreement, and further provided 
 that proof under the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830 that their descendants 
 had received a patent thereunder or was entitled thereto, was expressly waived as 
 to full bloods and could not be invoked against such. 
 
 When this treaty was made I was governor of the Chickasaw Tribe of Indiana, and 
 I seriously and earnestly opposed the enactment of such a provision, but finally 
 agreed to a waiver of proof as to full bloods and an extension of time within which to 
 apply for citizenship and within which to remove west only as a compromise settle- 
 ment, and to settle forever and finally the citizenship question. 
 Yours, very truly, 
 
 D. H. Johnston, 
 Governor of the Chickasaw Nation. 
 
 STATEMENT OF THE HON. WILLIAM H. MURBAY, MEMBER OF CONBESS FROM 
 
 OKLAHOMA. 
 
 I am a citizen of the Chickasaw Nation, admitted under the tribal laws for naturali- 
 zation for white men, and have been since 1899. 
 
 At the time of the making of the supplementary agreement of September 25, 1902, 
 I was the secretary of the National Party, the dominant political party of the tribal 
 government, and by reason of said position was one of the managers of the party. 
 The National Party, through its leader. Gov. Douglas H. Johnston, as governor of 
 the nation, was responsible for the making of the said supplementary treaty. The 
 opposing party called a meeting in my home town, Tishomingo, with a view of oppos- 
 ing th-e ratification of this treaty; and Holmes Willis, a very prominent citizen by 
 blood of the Chickasaw Nation, and I attended this meeting in an effort to defeat the 
 movement in opposition to its ratification. We also made public addresses to citi- 
 zens of the tribe throughout the nation, urging its ratification. Both in the Tisho- 
 mingo meeting and everywhere upon the "stump" we were met with the charge that 
 we had permitted the reopening of the rolls in violation of former treaties, court 
 decisions, and decisions of the Dawes Commission for the admission of the so-called 
 Mississippi Choctaws. To this reply we urged that it became necessary to do so in 
 order to secure from the Government a final and speedy settlement of tribal affairs 
 and the immediate allotment in severalty, and the distribution of tribal funds to 
 individual members, and that such agreement was made as a necessary compromise 
 in order to secure such settlement. 
 
 The real and only issue involved in the entire campaign was this question of citi- 
 zenship and the reopening of the rolls. Acting upon the advice of the makers of liis 
 treaty, it was ratified With the universal belief of all parties that it meant a speedy 
 settlement, and that no further effort would ever be made to reopen the rolls or to 
 permit the admission of any other claimants to em-ollment. 
 
 MONTANA. 
 
 FORT BELKNAP AGENCY. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 17, line 15, as follows: 
 
 For support and civilization of the Indians at Fort Belknap, Mont., including pay 
 of employees, $20,000. 
 
 That is in accordance with the estimate ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Myers. I move that that be allowed. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 FLATHEAD AGENCY. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows: 
 
 For support and civilization of Indians at Flathead Agency, Mont , including pay 
 of employees, $12,000. a j, , o t i 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We estimated for $15,000, and we would like to have 
 our estimate. The estimate is justified on page 183 of the House 
 heanngs. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 109 
 
 Senator Page. I see that you had $12,000 last year. Why do vou 
 need the increase ? •> j j 
 
 Mr. xMeeitt. The reservation has been allotted, and the activities 
 of the reservation are greater no^v than heretofore. And there are 
 also a number of Indians on the resorvation who require to be sub- 
 sisted— a number of old Indians, who need more careful attcrtion 
 than h.is been given them. 
 
 Senator Myers. On that itein will have to come, will it )iot what 
 you might call the charity that is given out for the hooping ijid care 
 of aged, indigent, poor, sick, and unfortunate Indians who have no 
 other way of being taken care of ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We expect to use this incresised appropriation for 
 that purpose. 
 
 Senator Myers. I want to say in connection with that that Sena- 
 tor Walsh, Representative Evaiu-^, and I visited the Flathead Reser- 
 vation last fall after the election to see what we could learn and 
 what wc could do. As I was coining back I stopped at St. Ignatius, 
 near where the agency is, and Father Delainont, an old Cathohc 
 priest there, v/ho has always taken a very great interest in the 
 Indians, and has done a very great deal for them, and who is really 
 their father and guardian, in a way, having been a^oociated with 
 them for many years, sent word for me to stop and see him as I went 
 through St. Ignatius coming. I was coming back alone, as I had 
 left the others. He talked to me half an hour or more. He, told 
 extensively about the pitiable condition of many, aged, infirm, 
 indigent, sick, and poverty stricken Indians there. He said they 
 had been getting about 112,000 for subsistence and all purposes. 
 He said it was not nearly enough, and he went on to tell me about 
 what the Cathohc Church, he and his associates there, had done 
 outside of that. He said that they did a great deal, that in fact 
 they spent several thousand doUars a year, but that he thought 
 the Government ought to increase its appropriation some, because 
 it was wholly inadequate. I will not tell j^ou aU he said. It would 
 take me three-quarters of an hour to do it. The gist is that the 
 appropriations had been utterly inadequate, and that there was a 
 great deal of pitiful suffering, and it was in part remedied by the 
 Cathohc Church out of its pocket, but that they were not able to 
 meet all of this, and some of it simply had to go unattended to. 
 
 The Chairman. You are just arguing for the estimate? 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes. 
 
 The f'HAiRMAN. Is there any objection to that ? 
 
 Senator Myers. I will be through with my statement in just a 
 second. There may bo objections. 
 
 Senator Page. I would hke to make some inquiries after the 
 Senator finishes. 
 
 Senator Myers. He urged very strongly that I appeal to make 
 that appropriation at least $20,000. He said it ought to be $26,000, 
 but he urged that I appeal to make it 120,000. I told him I would 
 do what I could. Representative Evans passed through the day 
 before I did. He returned sooner than I did. Mr. Evans tells 
 me Father Delamont made the same statement to him. As soon as I 
 returned to Washington I went to see Mr. Sells and Mr. Meritt, and 
 discussed the situation with them, as well as a lot of other matters 
 pertaining to the Indians there. They both recognized the merit 
 
110 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 of the appeal and said they would estimate and recommend an in- 
 creased appropriation. I see that they have done so by asking that 
 it be made $15 000. I asked, based on what Father Delamont told 
 me that it be made at least $20,000. Mr. Meritt and Mr. Sells 
 promised me they would strive to get an increase and out of m 
 abundance of prudence, probably, made it $15,000. I am satisfied 
 if I can get that. 
 
 Senator Page. This is a gratuity out of the Federal Treasury? 
 
 Senator SIysrs. Yes. It will have to be given by the Government 
 or otheiwise it will come out of the tribal funds, and you will be 
 taxing the Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. The point I was raismg was this: Have the Flat- 
 heads property of their own that might under any conditions be drawn 
 upon ? 
 
 Senator Myers. They have property. Some of them are weE off, 
 but I do not think it would be fair to take from A's property to 
 pay B. 
 
 Senator Page. I am talking about the general fund 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Meritt will have to tell you about that. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They have some fluids in the Treasury, but those 
 funds are hypothecated to pay for the construction of the irrigation 
 project on the Flathead Eeservation. They also have some valuable 
 tribal property, including surplus lands and timber. We would like 
 very much to have this appropriation increased so that we can use 
 this additional $3,000 for subsistence and relieving the distress of the 
 old and indigent Indians on this reservation. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection the item wiU be agreed to. 
 
 Senator Page. You say, "agreed to." I should hke to have a 
 httle more discussion about it. The point is I have not a doubt that 
 you may go to almost any tribe in the United States and you will find 
 that there are' grounds for giving them something if you want to be 
 charitable or benevolent. But the question is. Are not these Flat- 
 head Indians in a position where the Government could take some of 
 their funds and thus save the Federal Treasury ? 
 
 Senator Myers. These funds are tied up, so I will have to ask Mr. 
 Meritt to answer that. I do not have time to keep up with the 
 details of how each fund is pledged, and so forth. I wifi refer you 
 to Mr. Meritt. I think he has ample information on that. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It would be impracticable at this time to appropriate 
 money out of the funds in the Treasury belonging to the Flathead 
 Indians, because those funds have been hypothecated. 
 
 Senator Page. I understand that they have been hypothecated for 
 this irrigation scheme, and ia the discussions heretofore we have found 
 that this irrigation scheme has drawn on the money of the Indians to 
 heh) out the whites of Montana. Is that right ? 
 
 Senator Myers. No; to help Indians and whites alike, who are 
 settlers. The Indian will get it all back in tune. It is like this: 
 If I lend Senator Ashurst $25, not to be payable for a year, if I get 
 sick to-day I have not the $25 to use. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, you have stood up in the Senate and said 
 that unless the Indians were able to avail themselves of it before such 
 a time it absolutely ceased and you declined to have anything done 
 m regard to a measure that did protect these Indians who are unable 
 to avail themselves of the irrigation project there. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. HI 
 
 Senator Myers. How unable 'i 
 
 Senator Page. ]SIr. Meritt asked last year to put into this bill in 
 several instances g, proviso that if they did not make use of the water 
 within a certain time their rights should not cease. You fought that, 
 and that has gone out. We have been informed by Senator Walsh 
 in a speech in the Senate which you and I heard, and very fully 
 elaborated on, that within a very short time this irrigation project, 
 as far as the Indians were concerned, would pass out and the white 
 men would be the ones who wouid avail themselves of the benefit. 
 Now, you say we should give these Indians an additional fund because 
 we can not take their funds that are tied up in irrigation projects 
 which are all going for the benefit of the white men. 
 
 Senator Myers. No, I can not concede that. Every dollar of this 
 Indian money which has been hypothecated will be returned in due 
 time. The land is there, and the security is there, but meantime, as 
 Mr. Meritt says, it is not available for this purpose. 
 
 Senator Lane. And the Indians are going hungry and suffering — 
 some of them are. 
 
 Senator Mtebs. Some of them are — or hardly that. But the Cath- 
 olic Giurch has been paying the deficit. I do not believe this C-overn- 
 ment ought to shove off onto any church the support of its own wards. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not, either. I think you are quite right. But 
 as a matter of fact the fimds of the Indians and their affairs have 
 been handled so that while they have a lot of valuable land and some 
 cash, they are hypothecated in enterprises from which the Indian 
 receives no immediate benefit. 
 
 Senator Myers. I can not assent to that. They will receive a 
 benefit. 
 
 Senator Lane. They may later. 
 
 Senator Page. But both Senators from Montana last year after 
 coming here and getting a large appropriation 
 
 Senator Myers. $200,000 is the least they ever had. 
 
 Senator Page. Let me finish. They fought the proviso put m by 
 the department through Mr. Meritt that unless they made beneficial 
 use of this water within a given time the right to use it would lapse. 
 Both you and Senator Walsh fought that on the floor in the Senate. 
 Now you come and say, "We want this money, that the Flathead 
 Indians are rich, they have plenty of funds, but it is hypothecated 
 for these irrigation purposes, and the irrigation purpose we are going 
 to finally, iti one way or another, so arrange^ that they will benefit the 
 white men more largely than the Indians." 
 
 Senator Myers. Have I ever said that that I was going to see that 
 this scheme was so arranged as to benefit the whites more than the 
 
 Indians? t i,- i 
 
 Senator Page. The records show that, I think. . 
 
 Senator Myers. Senator Walsh has expressed his views and my 
 views about that. I do not care to argue before the committee any 
 more about $3,000. I will leave it to the committee, it you want 
 to cut it down to $12,000, I am willing. 
 The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee^ 
 Senator Lane. I would say this, that if the department will use it 
 for the benefit of the Indians— and they need it, I have no doubt— 
 and not use it up in wages and salaries for additional employees, as 
 
112 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 they are now using the principal part of all these appropriations, I 
 would be willing. I think there is no doubt that the Indians need it. 
 
 Senator White. It occurs to me that there is probably the strong- 
 est reason that this should be increased, that the Government has 
 taken the means away from them. They have not any means now, 
 and the Government should replace it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. If this increase is allowed I will see that it will be 
 be used for the benefit of those Indians and not paid in salaries. 
 
 Senator Page. This $3,000 in and of itself, to my mind, is a very 
 small matter. I do not care to debate it. I simply say that you are 
 introducing here a factor in the bill which we are going to meet 
 pretty soon in appropriations of very large amounts. I want that to 
 go into the record now. It is not right to take the Indians' funds and 
 h3rpothecate them, thus leaving them in an extremely poverty-stricken 
 condition. 
 
 Senator Myers. Then the Flathead irrigation project should not 
 have been entered into, and this land should have been allowed to 
 remain dry and unproductive. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item will be agreed to at 
 $15,000. 
 
 FORT PECK AGENCY, MONT. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows: 
 
 For support and civilization of Indiana at Fort Peck Agency, Mont., including pay 
 of employees, $30,000. 
 
 That is in accordance with the estimates? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; and is justified fully on page 185 of the 
 House hearings. 
 The Chairman. Without objection the item will be agreed to. 
 
 BLACKFEET agency, MONT. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows: "For support and 
 civilization of Indians at Blackfeet Agency, Mont., including pav of 
 employees, $15,000." ^ 
 
 That is according to the estimate. 
 
 Senator Lane. How much did you have last year ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This is the same as allowed last year. 
 
 Senator Lane. There has been much suffering amongst those 
 Indians. Really, the condition of some of those Indians is pitiful. 
 Were you out there, Senator Myers ? 
 
 Senator Myers. I was not on Blackfeet Eeservation this last fall. 
 Senator Walsh was there, but I did not have time to get there. 
 
 Senator Lane. I visited there for four days. I went out on that 
 agency, and the condition of the full-blood Indians, of which there 
 are several hundreds, who live up toward the mountains, at the south 
 ot the agency, is really awful bad. I want to show you a photograph 
 Lmdicatmg] of some of the houses or shacks, rather, they live in— that 
 a f amdy of eight hves in. They had no food in their house at aU the 
 day 1 was there. I found that they were being subsisted upon a ration 
 that was mefficient, not sufficient to support Hfe, and were living upon 
 lands which were not capable of cultivation, and without any means 
 ol cultivatmg them m many mstances. Something ought to be done 
 about that. That agency ought to be reorganized or else aboUshed. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. U3 
 
 Senator Robinson. May I make a statement ? Since you were out 
 there Inspector Linnen was there and found the same condition 
 apparently, that you found. The superintendent has been dismissed! 
 
 Senator Myeks. I thmk that was on the Crow Reservation was it 
 not? 
 
 Senator Robinson. No; it is the Black^^^t that I have lionri 
 speaking of. 
 
 Sanator Myers. Has he been dismissed, too ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yes. 
 
 Senator Lane. There [indicating] is a day's rations of the boans 
 that are issued to each one of those Indians. They have no other 
 means of food supply except what the Government gives them, 2^ 
 pounds of beef a week with the bone in, 47 beans, weighing so many 
 drams or pennyweights and without any bacon or pork to boil with 
 them. And with a small portion of sugar and 10 pounds of flour a 
 month. That is where the wind whistles off the mountains and 
 the temperature goes down away below zero, living in those httle 
 one-room shacks. I saw Indian children there- one child that had 
 no clothes on him except a httle sack coat that its mother evidently 
 had piit on seeing us come. There were eight children hving in that 
 oivj hoiise. The mother had given birth to a child the day before. 
 The bedding was nothing but old rags and sacks. They told me that 
 the superintendent had never visited that place, and the house, as you 
 can sec there, must be 25 years old. That is one thing that makes me 
 question the wisdom of voting these items for support and civilization 
 of the Indians, when the money is not used for that purpose. I fouiid 
 the employees, the officials, pretty well housed and comfortably 
 located, but the poor old full-blood Llackfeet Indians up against 
 it and going. Unless there is a revolution in the m!4hods of this 
 department it ought to be kicked out of the Government service. 
 
 i\lr. Meritt. I wiU confirm vrhat has been said by Senator Robin- 
 son. We also authorized Mr. Linnen to relieve the distress on that 
 reservation, which was done. We have also increased the rations. 
 The superintendent will be relieved to-day at the Blackfeet Reser- 
 vation, and Supervisor Ellis, who is recognized as one of the 
 strongest men in the service, will take charge of that reservation. 
 We hope to improve the conditions there. They have been bad and 
 are bad now, and there will cimtinue to be more or less suffering on 
 that reservation, because these Indians have not yet received trust 
 patents to their lands. The lands can not he sold now, and because 
 of the very unusual cKmatic conditions existing on that reservation 
 in the wintertime it is a vcrv difficult problem. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Hov/ many Indians are there on the Blackfeet 
 Reservation ! 
 
 Mr. Meritt. About 2,700 Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. You are going to have a task there with that 
 Blackfeet Agency. ^„. , , j, 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is a very difficult task. Mr. EUis takes charge ot 
 the reservation to-day, and it is expected that that condition will be 
 relieved. , . , 
 
 Senator White. How long has this man that you are going to 
 
 remove been there? . 
 
 Mr. Meritt. He has been there about four years, i judge. 
 Senator Lane. Oh, seven years, I am told. 
 
 82833— TOL 1—16 8 
 
114 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Well, I think it is probably five years. 
 
 Senator White. What excuse has there been for keeping him 
 
 there? , .• , . 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There has been a fight on that reservation between 
 certain Indians. The mixed-blood Indians wanted him kept there 
 and the full-blood Indians wanted him dismissed or transferred. 
 
 Senator White. Did the department have any knowledge of these 
 conditions ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we have sent inspectors to that reserva- 
 tion and they have made investigations. The inspectors heretofore 
 have reported very favorably on Mr. McFatridge, to the extent that 
 he was honest, suppressed the liquor traffic, and that he put in jail 
 the cattle thieves, and for that reason he had created serious oppo- 
 sition to him on the reservation and around the reservation. But 
 Mr. Linnen's report disclosed conditions there which will necessitate 
 a change being made immediately. 
 
 Senator White. It seems to me it ought to have been made a long 
 time ago. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Inspector McLauglilin visited the reservation and 
 made an investigation and Supervisor Lipps made an investigation 
 of the reservation. Both reports were favorable. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The Linnen report will be printed and pub- 
 lished very shortly in the proceedings of the joint commission. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The conditions on that reservation will be improved 
 immediately. 
 
 Senator Robinson. It discloses in detail very serious conditions. 
 As a result of these investigations the superintendent has been dis- 
 charged, so I am informed, by the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 The Chairman. Senator Lane has brought to our attention a very 
 serious thing about the lack of food among those Indians. I see that 
 salaries on that agency are $8,153, whereas subsistence supply is 
 only $3,800. 
 
 Senator Owen. Why would it not be a good thing to send the 
 Indians a check for the $8,000 and let them divide that up ? 
 
 Senator Lane. I saw their children going to that school with their 
 little toes out of their shoes. The soles were off them. They were 
 the most wretched looking shoes you ever saw. Otherwise they 
 seemed to be weU fed, but there had been a failure to get shoes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How much cash do they have in the Treasury? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They have over $150,000 in cash in the Treasury. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I would like to make this suggestion: Can we 
 not make some adequate provision in this bill to relieve that suffering? 
 
 Senator Owen. Why should we not abolish the salaries and give 
 that money to the Indians ? 
 
 Senator White. It occurs to me that that would be a good thing 
 to do. 
 
 Senator Myers. You have to have an agent. 
 
 Senator Owen. What use is the agent there 1 
 
 Senator Myers. If you get a good man he will be a whole lot of use. 
 
 Senator Lane. Senator Owen, I want to say for your information 
 that there is no game in that country, and they have been so hard up 
 for food that they have eaten up the prairie dogs. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I move that this appropriation be increased to 
 $25,000, and that not less than $17,000 of it be immediately available 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 115 
 
 for food and clothing for the Blackfeet Indians, and for no other 
 purpose. 
 
 Sen«,tor White. That would leave $8,000 to pay the agent. 
 
 The Chairman. The agent has manifold duties. You could not 
 abohsh the agency. 
 
 Senator White. But you can reduce the amount. Let all of it be 
 used except $5,000. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The department has been dUitory, in my judg- 
 ment, in proceeding to reform the conditions that have existed there, 
 but they have proceeded by discharging that superintendent, and I 
 would not be wiUing to cripple the new administration of affairs there 
 by making an inadequate appropriation. I do not want to penahze 
 a reform by taking away the men whom they have put there with 
 this increased responsibihty. I say give them a chance to make good. 
 If the reform is to accomplish anything, do not deprive them of their 
 salaries. 
 
 Senator Owen. I did not mean to suggest depriving them of any 
 opportunity to make good. I thought that this money for food 
 would be more judiciously expended if you had just one man to dis- 
 tribute the food. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There are physicians, teachers, and farmers. 
 
 Senator White. How is this money expended? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is expended for the salaries of the necessary 
 employees on the reservation. 
 
 Senator White. What do they do ? Let us have some information 
 of what duties they perform. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This is a reservation on the 1. order of Canada, in 
 northern Montana, and covers an area of probably 60 by 40 miles. 
 There is property there of considerable value belonging to those In- 
 dians, and the Government has estabhshed an agency there as weU 
 as a school. They have a boarding school on that reservation and 
 some day schools. It is necessary that we have a superintendent, 
 physicians, and- teachers and also stockmen to look after the stock 
 of the reservation. We expect to put on the reservation an addi- 
 tional amount of stock this spring. We have spent $75,000 for a 
 tribal herd. That wiU take an employee to look after the cattle. 
 
 Senator Lane. Are you going to hire Indians to do that or white 
 
 Mr Meritt. We wiU hire Indians imrler the supervision ot a stock- 
 man to look after the tribal herd. I am heartily in favor of the sug- 
 gestion of Senator Eobinson, 1)ut I do not beheve we ought to cut 
 the salaries out altogether and leave that property without proper 
 care. ,, 
 
 The Chairman. His motion did not contemplate that. 
 "Senator Robinson. My motion does not contenaplate cutting out 
 the salaries. I am not in favor of that, now that the department has 
 undertaken to reform it ly putting new men there. I do not think 
 we ought to penahze the effort to reform it by cuttmg off their 
 salariet, cutting off the school and other facihties that have not been 
 
 perhaps efficiently conducted. , -, • , 
 
 Senator White. How much is paid for salaries t 
 Mr. Meritt. Approximately $8,000. 
 Senator White. Is that the salary of one man i 
 
IIQ INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr Mebitt No, sir; we have a uumber of employees thnxK The 
 superintendent of that reservation gets a salary of |1 800 at this tune. 
 Tire physicians get salaries of $1,200. We have, I think, two or 
 
 three physicians. , . . ,, mi i ■ 
 
 Senator L.^ne. They only had one physician there. The physi- 
 cians all resigned. , • • ^i- -ii i, ■ +u 
 Mr Meritt. We did have three physicians. VVe will when the 
 official list is completed have three physicians We have teachers 
 on the reservation to look after the boarding school there, whicJi has 
 an enroUment of probably over 150 pupils. It is necessary to have 
 employees to care for the property and look after the schools and the 
 agency. The emjiloyees are listed on page 442 of the House hearings 
 
 of last year. ^ ...,1,0.. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there objection to the motion of the Senator 
 
 from i^rkansas? „- , , , 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes, I should h;.:e Senator \V;i,lsh go be present, 
 and ascertain what is to he done about it, for this reason: Senator 
 Walsh know-s a great deia nvre alM>ut tire Blackfeot than I do. He 
 hves close to it. He v/as on the rescrvatir-n last fail right after the 
 election, and I v/ould hke for him to know what the motion island to 
 say ;!, few words. He aught give some explanation that would shed 
 a little iigiit on it. 
 
 The Chairman. The motion is to increase the item $10,000 ove 
 the present amount. 
 
 Senator Page. It mil go out on a point of order. 
 
 Senator Robinson. No one would dare make a point of order on 
 that proposition with the showing of facts that has been made. If 
 he did he would be inhuman, in my judgment. 
 
 Senator Myers. You increase it, and move that $17,000 of the 
 $2.5,000 shall go to the Indians? 
 
 Senator Robinson. I want to see when the appropriation is in- 
 creased that a necessary and fair amount of it is used for the purpose 
 for which we are appropriating. The salaries at the present time 
 are about $8,000. I am not in favor of increasing the salaries, but I 
 am not in favor of cutting the salaries just at the time when incxeased 
 work is to be done, 'and an increased efhciency is to be put into the 
 operations on that reservation. The proper distribution of this 
 fund which we contemplate providing is an additional burden on 
 that agency. I do not want to cut the salaries of the agency. I do 
 not think it would be proper to do it when the management is being 
 changed, but I do think that there ought to be an additional fund 
 provided for the purpose of relieving suffering among those Indians. 
 There can not be any question as to the existence of these conditions 
 that ought to be relieved. The inspector for the bureau has con- 
 firmed the statements of Senator Lane and of other witnesses that 
 have appeared either before this committee or before the joint com- 
 mittee, showing that there is great suffering and great need among 
 those Indians. 1 can not understand how any one would object to 
 it if we are going to try to have adequate legislation. 
 
 The Chairman. I take it there is no objection to the item. 
 
 (At this point Senator Walsh entered the room.) 
 , Senator Myers. Senator Walsh, it is claimed that there is great 
 destitution and suffering among the Blackfeet, and last year out of 
 that fund the record shows that they took about $8,000 for adminis- 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 1X7 
 
 trative purpos(^s, for salaries, etc. Senator Robinson moves to 
 increase tlie S15 000 to $25,000, and to provide that $17,000 of it 
 shaU be devoted to subsistence for the Indians, leaving 18 000 for 
 salaries as before. It looks to me all right. As you know more 
 about the Blackfcet than I do and wore there last faU, I thought I 
 would hke to have you present. If you have anything to say about 
 it, I thmk the committee will be glad to hear it. 
 
 The Chairman. Senator Robinson's motion simplv increases the 
 subsistence item so that $17,000 will be avaUable for 'food and cloth- 
 ing, mstead of about $7,000. I take it there is no opposition to that 
 
 Senator Page. They used $5,000 last year for food and clothing 
 You sunply need to limit the amount for salaries to $8,000, and that 
 leaves the rest to go for subsistence, food, benefit, supplies, and 
 materials. 
 
 Senator Robinsox. Of which amount not exceeding $8,000 shall 
 go for salaries and the remainder for subsistence— and subsistence 
 covers everything. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I have nothing to say except that ever since I 
 have been in Washington at intervals letters of the most pitiable 
 character have come telling me about the destitution there. I have 
 inquired about it. - I wont over the reservation just after election 
 and the same appeals went up to me. One matter in particular Miss 
 Helen Clark told me about. _ I feel like speaking to the committee 
 about it. It is a case of this man who has been released from the 
 asylum here in Washington about a year ago, Spo Pee. He was 
 convicted of murder and sentenced to death, and then it was com- 
 muted to life imprisonment. He gave some evidence of insanity. 
 Somewhere near 30 years ago he was brought here to Washington. 
 He has been in the asylum here during all 'these years. Some very 
 well-intentioned persons, but I think rather thoughtless, wanted to 
 get him back on the reservation, and they secured his release from 
 the asylum here. He is on the reservation, and is absolutely desti- 
 tute, just simply wandering around the reservation from one place 
 to another, living upon the charity of those who may be charitably 
 disposed. It is the same story about the man who asked to be sent 
 back to the penitentiary after having been there for years and years. 
 It would be a kindness, I imagine, to the old man to bring him back 
 here. AU his relations are dead and gone. There is nobody there 
 to take care of him. It was a very ill-advised thing, I think, to take 
 him away from the asylum even though he did not find people to 
 talk to. 
 
 Senator Lane. I will say to you that he wants to go himself. I saw 
 old Spo-Pee, and the Senator has very accurately described the con- 
 dition as to him. He begs to come back liere and tries to get on 
 the train every once in a while to do so. There is nobody there to 
 take care of him. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is just one instance. I think the amend- 
 ment should probably be in this form: 
 
 The item increased to $25,000, and then add after that, "of which 
 amount not exceeding $8,000 shall be expended for ^salaries, the 
 remainder to be immediately available for subsistance." 
 
 The Chairman. That seems satisfactory. Is there objection to 
 it? If not, the item will be agreed to. 
 
llg INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Myees. That having been increased, I do not see why the 
 Flathead appropriation should not be increased to $20 000 the 
 amount Father Delamont says is absolutely necessary. Did leather 
 Delamont talk to you Senator Walsh? 
 
 S'enator Walsh. No; he did not talk to me ,,•,,, 
 
 Senator Mters. Wliat do you think about that, Mr. Meritt ( 
 
 Mr Meeitt We will be glad to have the increased appropriation, 
 and will use the increase for subsistence of old and decrepit Indians. 
 
 Senator White. Is there that destitution among the J^latheads « 
 
 Senator Myers. I guess you were not here. Senator, when I was 
 telhng what Father Delamont told me. , . . , „• • 
 
 Senator White. Yes; I was. Still the destitution and sufTering 
 did not seem to be as great as it appeared to be among these Indians. 
 
 Senator Myees. I doubt if it is as general as it is among the Black- 
 feet, but $20,000 would not be as much as $25,000. 
 
 Senator Walsh. The same story has been told me, as far as the 
 Flatheads is concerned, for the last four or five years. The people 
 at Konan told me when I was there two years ago last fall a story 
 that would make your blood run cold, which would just give you the 
 shivers, about the destitution on that reservation. All of those 
 people are not continually appealed to, because you do not need to 
 make appeals. They give out what they have got to relieve the 
 suffering that is so pronounced that it appeals to everybody without 
 any particular address, but in most of those cases they couple it with 
 the statement, "Now, these people are rich, they have land, but no 
 possibility of utilizing the resources they have." If their land 
 values were in some way available to them the problem would 
 not be so difficult. Of course in a great many of those cases they are 
 old and debilitated, and -they could not work the land even if they 
 had the tools, the instruments, and the horses to do it. And perhaps 
 it would be inadvisable to sell the land. Of course those are matters 
 to be determined upon the evidence submitted in individual cases, 
 but it would be an act of mercy on the part of Congress to make 
 some temporary provision for them. 
 
 Senator White. Senator, what is the comparison, numerically, 
 between these two tribes ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. There are about 2,700 on the Blackfeet, and I 
 think about 1,800 on Flathead. 
 
 Senator White. Then it looks to me as though Senator Myers's 
 suggestion is about right. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Then, in view of that, I move to reconsider, 
 if there is no objection, the amount agreed to for the Flathead reser- 
 vation. 
 
 The Chaieman. Without objection it will be reconsidered. 
 
 Senator Myers. I move to increase the appropriation for the Flat- 
 head Reservation to $20,000. What is the amount of salary paid 
 there ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. $4,378. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Of which amount not exceeding $4,378 may 
 be expended for salaries, the remainder to be immediately available 
 for subsistence. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, while you are on this point, I 
 introduced a biU some time ago to reimburse HUl County to the 
 extent, I think; of about $750 for supplies furnished to the Rocky 
 
indiastpPbopkiation bill. 119 
 
 Boy Band. I want to inquire whether it came to this committee or 
 whether it went to the Committee on Claims. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That would go to the Committee on Claims, I 
 think. It did not come here. 
 The Chairman. No; it did not come here. 
 
 Senator Walsh. You have an item here, as I observe, providing 
 for subsistence for the Rocky Boy Band. I feel, Senators, that that 
 claim of Hill County ought to be taken care of, and I think should be 
 taken care of by setting apart a portion of this a propriation. You 
 understand they just simply come and squat down there right on the 
 margin of the town of Havre. I was going to suggest that you add 
 the amount of this claim of Hill County to that item for the Rocky 
 Boy Band. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Let me make this suggestion 1 efore you do 
 that. I think that is a rather bad precedent. In every community 
 where there are those that are indigent there is mvolved some addi- 
 tional biu-den upon the community, and any community in emer- 
 gency cases makes provisions for them. That is not exceptional ia 
 any community ^^dth which I am famihar. I think if you make 
 these funds which are intended to be available for the present and 
 future subsistence of the Indians available to pay debts which have 
 been incurred in their maintenance, you will find a large amount 
 of it hereafter consumed in paying for food that has been supphed 
 them, or for provisions that have been made for them outside of 
 the bureau. I think we had better consider that proposition a httle. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I recognize the force of what the Senator says 
 about this matter, but I want to suggest this, in that connection, 
 that the duty of taking care of those Indians devolves upon the 
 Federal Government, upon the Government of the Nation, and not 
 upon our people. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is not altogether true. Senator. I know 
 where people exist in any community it is a question of what pro- 
 vision shall be made for them, and the burden always falls in part 
 upon the community that is directly affected, but if that pohcy is 
 to be established it ought to have more general consideration, because 
 it will run all the way through this bill where we are makmg pro- 
 vision for the support and education of Indians, and you will find 
 hereafter what are in the nature of deficiencies not by expenditures 
 through the department, but by obhgations occurrmg in locahties 
 where there is no means of catching them, and I thmk it is a very 
 dangerous precedent. . t ii, 
 
 TKie Chairman. Let us dispose of this Flathead item first. Is there 
 objection to the motion of the Senator from Arkansas with respect 
 to increasing the amount of the Flathead item to 120,000, with not 
 more than $4,378 to be avaUable for salaries? If not, it is agreed to 
 unanimously. _, . .„- » 
 
 Senator Page. Had you not better make it $4,400 or $4,500 for 
 
 salaries ? 
 Senator Robinson. Yes. , 
 
 The Chairman. Make it $4,500, and that will leave $15,000 tor 
 
 SXlDSlsijPIlP P 
 
 Now we will pass to the Rocky Boy item. , , ,, ^ ^, j +„ ^f 
 
 Senator Walsh. I just merely wanted to add that the duty ot 
 
 taking care of these Indians has been assumed through aU our history 
 
12Q INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 bv the XationJ Government. It is recognized that it is_ not right, 
 aJd in view of the provisions of the Constitution it is not ]ust to im- 
 pose this burden upon the local commumties. You are famihar 
 Enough with the history of the Rocky Boy Band, so I need not 
 reWse it. Of course, for a long time the Government of the United 
 States felt that it had no responsibility wth respect to them, but 
 that idea has long since been abandoned Now, they are there and 
 no provision wa7made for the care of these Indians, nor for their 
 subsistence. There was no provision at aU for them, and whenever 
 this thing occurs, ordinarily, you know, the Department of War is 
 stormed with telegrams from kindly disposed people, and the local 
 authorities, and that kind of thing, to take care of them, but it does 
 not come, and it is just simply a question of letting them die there 
 or giving them something to eat. • ■ -l 
 
 The Chairman. Senator, what you say is always persuasive with 
 me and you talk well and logically, and so does your colleague, but 
 this is an item of $7.50. The great county of Coconino where I lived 
 for 36 years has within its borders 24,000 Indians. The smallpox 
 once broke out among them, and our county spent $10,000 on them 
 in one winter. If we should open the door, or the camel's nose 
 should get under the tent, here would be my people clamoring. They 
 would say, "Senator Walsh has reimbursed his county, and why do 
 you sit there idle ? " 
 
 Senator Robinson. It will come from every reservation m the 
 United States, not only now, but it will be regarded as a new prece- 
 dent. 
 
 Senator Myers. I want to call your attention to this which I sup- 
 pose you know, that the Rocky Boy Indians, or Crow Indians, what- 
 ever they are called, one or the other, have no property or assets 
 whatever. They wander on the face of the earth. 
 
 Senator Page. We have provided $10,000 in this bill. Is not that 
 sufficient ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. That is ample. Senator Page. That will take care 
 of the thing now, but these expenditures were imposed upon our 
 people when there was not any provision for the care of them. 
 
 Senator P.vge. But we gave you $10,000 last year, too. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes; but this was the year before that. That 
 is my recollection. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I very much dislike to not concur in what 
 Senator Walsh suggests, but I fear this precedent. I think it would 
 be ruinous, and so I must vote against it. 
 
 Senator Page. It would go out on a point of order, I assume, 
 inasmuch as there has been no estimate for it. 
 
 Senator Walsh. There has been an estimate for the Rocky Boy 
 Band. You would just simply be increasing it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think you should present that claim to the 
 Claims Committee. 
 
 Senator Myers. To get the matter before the committee I move 
 it be raised from $10,000 to $10,700. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That implies it should be made available for 
 that purpose. 
 
 Senator Myers. But you can not vote on anything unless there is 
 a motion. Therefore, I move that this be increased to $10,700, the- 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 121 
 
 extra S700 to be paid to tho authorities of Hill County Mont on 
 account of this back help. ' 
 
 Senator White. It occurs to me that this ought to go to the 
 Claims Committee. 
 
 The Chairmax. I will put the question. Those in favor will say 
 aye, and those opposed no. [Putting the question.] The no(-s have 
 it, and the motion is not agreed to. 
 
 MILK RIVER, FORT BELKNAP RESERVATION, MONT. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 20, line 24, as follows: 
 
 For maintenance and operation, includina; repairs of the Milk River irrigation svs- 
 tsm on the Fort Belknap Reservation, in Montana, S-2n, 000, reimbursable in accordance 
 with the pro-\nsions of the act of April fourth, nineteen hundred and ten. 
 
 That is in accordance with the estimates ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes; and it is justified on page 187 of the House 
 hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection the item will be agreed to. 
 
 FULFILLING TREATIES WITH CROWS, MONTANA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 21, line 4, as follows: 
 
 For fulfilling treaties with Crows, Montana: For pay of physician, $1,200; and for 
 pay of carpenter, miller, engineer, farmer, and blacksmith (article ten, treaty of May 
 seventh, eighteen hundred and sixi>'-eight), $3,600; for pay of second blacksmith 
 (article eight, same treaty), SI, 200; in all, $6,000. 
 
 Without objection the item will be agreed to. 
 
 NORTHERN CHEYENNES AND ARAPAHOES. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 21, line 10, as follows: 
 
 For subsistence and civilization of the Northern Cheyennes and Arapahoes (agree- 
 ment with the Sioux Indians, approved February twenty-eighth, eighteen hundred 
 and seventy-seven), including Northern Cheyennes removed from Pine Ridge Agency 
 to Tongue River, Montana, and for pay of physician, two teachers, two carpenters, 
 one miller, two farmers, a blacksmith, and engineer (article seven, treaty of May 
 tenth, eighteen hundred and sixty-eight), $85,000. 
 
 Senator Lane. I was told by Inspector Linnen that the condition 
 of the Northern Cheyennes is really about as pitiable as that of the 
 Blackfeet. They are on short rations. They have nothing to eat. 
 They are deprived, owing to the location of their country, from any 
 means of subsistence. 
 
 The Chairman. That is justified on page 193 of the House hearings. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I might say that this reservation has very recently 
 received a very careful inspection. The resignation of the former 
 superintendent, Mr. Eddy, has been accepted, and we have very 
 recently transferred one of the strongest men we have in the service 
 to that reservation, Mr. Buntin. The Commissioner visited that 
 reservation personally, and there have been instituted a good many 
 reforms on the reservation in the last month. 
 
 Senator Lane. In the way of increasing the food supply? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we have increased the ration supply. We 
 expect to relieve that condition there. 
 
122 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator White. How much- of this amount is expended for 
 salaries ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Twenty thousand dollars. 
 
 Senator White. That is entirely too much. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is for two reservations. 
 
 Senator White. It looks to me like it is entirely too much. It 
 takes one-third of the whole amount to distribute it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is not a question of distributing this money. One 
 $900 clerk can do that. But the employees on the reservation have 
 other duties to perform. Those are two large reservations, including 
 a number of day schools and tribal property to look after. 
 
 Senator White. Does that mclude the pay of the teachers? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes, sir; teachers, blacksmith, physician, car- 
 penter, and so forth. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is in the same situation or category, in 
 my judgment, as the Blackfeet which we discussed at length a while 
 ago. The superintendent of that reservation was before the Joiat 
 Commission to Investigate Indian Affairs. He was examined at 
 great length. He insisted that the reservation was in splendid con- 
 dition and that the Indians were in a satisfactory situation in every 
 particular. But further investigations into the matter disclosed 
 that that statement was not supported. I suggest now that it is 
 not wise to eliminate necessary salaries when an effort is being made 
 to reform existing abuses on these reservations. I do not Know the 
 amount of the salaries paid to these officers, but they employ teach- 
 ers, farmers, blacksmiths, doctors, and in some instances matrons, and 
 the salaries ought not to be arbitrarily reduced just at the time 
 when the department is beginning to work reforms on the reservation. 
 You cripple the reforms in that way. 
 
 Senator White. It occurs to me these agents and employees have 
 in some way gotten an undue proportion of this amount. I agree 
 with Senator Robinson that we ought not to cripple it, but it does 
 occur to me that $20,000 is too much to expend where $85,000 is being 
 distributed. It is true, as Mr. Meritt says, that there are other 
 things, but we ought to be informed as to what those other things 
 are. 
 
 Senator Myers. I can see here at least 12 employees, including the, 
 agent and his bookkeeper. That would be a little over $150 a month 
 for each employee. 
 
 Senator White. If that is true, ought we not to increase the appro- 
 priation ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not think it is necessary at this time to 
 increase the appropriation. I think the appropriation is adequate. 
 There is no request made for the increase. 
 
 Senator White. I know, but the representative there has not done 
 what he should have done. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are not asking for an increase. We believe we 
 can handle the situation with the present appropriation. 
 
 Senator White. Can you explain, then, why it was not handled 
 
 with the same amount heretofore with the destitution existing there? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Because we had an incompetent superintendent on 
 
 the Tongue River Reservation, who deceived the department as to 
 
 the conditions on that reservation. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 123 
 
 Senator Robinson. I want to make a little further statement 
 there 
 
 Senator White. Did he take the money? 
 
 Senator r OBiNSON. No; there is no evidence of that; but the 
 money available for that reservation has not been judiciously used 
 for the reason, among other things, that this superintendent, instead 
 of supervising expenditures of this character himself and knowing 
 that the money was going to the Indians, \s'as in the habit of signing 
 « checks in advance to pay for items of subsistence as they were sub- 
 sequently presented. He left it to the clerk of the agency, among 
 other things, to fill in the amount, thus failing to use his own intelli- 
 gence and efforts to see that the Indians had the benefit of the appro- 
 priation that was avail :>,ble. 
 
 The necessity for reforms there, I take it, arose out of the fact that 
 the administration was not properly conducted, and as Mr. Meritt 
 has said, the superintendent witnheld from the department the real 
 conditions existmg on the reservation. Complaint was made to me 
 as chairman of the joint commission to investigate these affairs as 
 to the bad conditions existing there, and he appeared and presented 
 his side of the case, and still insisted that conditions were satisfactory, 
 and that the Indians were happy and prosperous. In fact, it was 
 asserted that that was one reservation that was conducted in an 
 ideal way. But when the matter was further investigated it was 
 found that conditions were very unsatisfactory. There is no neces- 
 sity, in my mind, for increasing that appropriation. 
 
 Senator White. Senator, it seems to me from what you say that 
 really a large amount of this money was misappropriated. Is this 
 man under bond ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. Oh, I did not say it was misappropriated. I 
 have stated to you the manner in which the fund was used. 
 
 Senator WnrrE. I understand, but then it must have been mis- 
 appropriated or otherwise it would have suppHed the needs. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That does not necessarily follow. Your 
 experience as a business man leads you to know that when the head 
 of a business leaves to inferiors, not chargeable directly with that 
 responsibility, the disbursements of funds for that specific purpose, 
 that it may be diverted, and it may not be used for the best end. 
 
 Senator White. Then, under the facts stated here, it must have 
 been. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Well, I think it was. 
 
 Senator White. Then, I think he ought to be prosecuted. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is a question for the Department ot 
 Justice. It is not a question for an appropriation committee. 
 
 Senator White. It occurs to me we ought to take seme notice ot it 
 The Department of Justice may never know it- ihe -Bureau oi 
 Indian Affairs ought to take some steps about it. What about that, 
 Mr. Meritt? Have you caUed that to the attention of the Depart- 
 ment of Justice or the Attorney General ? +■+•„;„ r.M 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The inspector who made that i^^f ^^gf "f.f ,?°* 
 sure that he has a sufficient case to go to the Department of Justice 
 That matter is now under consideration by the office, and il there is 
 sufficient mformation available, sufficient data, the matter will be 
 submitted. 
 
[24 rNDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator White. Are you proceeding with that dihgently to 
 ascertain the fact 1 
 
 Afr ATt^rttt ^ 6S sir 
 
 Seiiiitor KoBiNSON. In my judgment, the difficulties on.this reser- 
 vatirn are more matters of inefhciency or neghgence than cnmmal 
 violations of law. I know of no violations of law, 1 will say to the 
 
 S' n'tor. , , -J. ■ VI 
 
 Senator White. Still I can not see why the money, if misapphed, 
 
 was not v.TongfuUy misapplied. 
 
 Senator Walsh. That is very easy. Here is a man who comes m 
 and makes an apphcation for some aid. The agent has gone off, 
 and the clerk is there. He issues a check for $25 to this man. 
 
 Senator White. That is misappropriation, is it not? 
 
 Senator Walsh. It is not misappropriation, it is poor judgment. 
 Another man comes in, and they do the same thing with him, and 
 pretty soon the fund is exhausted, and the real destitute people do 
 not s,'et it at all. 
 
 Senator Page. I want you to see the analysis of expenditures. 
 The amount last year for "subsistence and supplies was $31,000, in 
 round numbers; for salaries, $20,000; for tuition in mission schools, 
 $14,000; for equipment, $6,000. It seems to me that the educational 
 part of this expenditure was quite a material part of this fund. I see 
 that it is a mission school. There is no school there that can be sus- 
 tained by the Federal Government? 
 
 ]Mr. Meritt. There are some mission schools that are being sup- 
 ported out of this appropriation under certain treaty items with the 
 Sioux. This appropriation here is somewhat similar to the appro- 
 priation which M'as passed over under South Dakota, I believe, this 
 morning. 
 
 Senator Page. Your general policy is to have your own schools 
 rather than patronize mission schools, where you can? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The policy is to use those mission schools that are 
 now in operation, but to confine the contracts to the present mission 
 schools. 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from Montana moves to approve the 
 item. Is there objection? If not it is so ordered and agreed to. 
 
 LINE RIDERS, NORTHERN CHEYENNE INDIAN RESERVATION, MONT. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 21, line 18, as follows: 
 
 For the employment of "line riders" along the southern and eastern boundaries o 
 the Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation in the State of Montana, $1,500. 
 
 That is the same as the estimate. Without objection it will be 
 agreed to. 
 
 EOCKT BOYS BAND OF CHIPPEWAS, MONTANA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 21, line 21, as follows: 
 
 _ For the support and civilization of Rocky Boys Band of Chippewas, and other 
 "idigent and homeless Indians in the State of Montana, including pay of employees, 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we agree to that. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection it will be agree to. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 125 
 
 CATTLE, BLACKFEET RESERVATION, MONT. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 21, Hne 24, as follows: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to withdraw 
 from the Treasury of the United States not to exceed the sum of $75,000, or so much 
 thereof as may be necessary, of the principal sum on deposit to the credit of the Indians 
 on the Blackfeet Reservation in Montana, for the purpose of purchasing and caring 
 for cattle for the use of said Indians, to enable (hem to become self-supporting, under 
 such rules, regulations, and conditions as said Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. 
 
 Mr. IVIeritt. We asked that $150,000 be appropriated for that 
 purpose, but in view of the fact that this is the first appropriation for 
 a tribal herd on that reservation, we wiU try to get along on $75,000. 
 
 The Chairman. What was your estimate ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. One hundred and fifty thousand dollars. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Senators, if you wiU pardon me, with respect to 
 that, until some two or tliree years ago the grazing lands in the 
 Blackfeet Reservation were leased, and a very considerable revenue 
 was derived from those leases by the Indians. But the last herd 
 was taken off two years ago. The Flowerrce Cattle Co. had the 
 lease for quite a good many years. I was told when I was there 
 last fall that for the last two years there has been invaluable grazing 
 on the reservation that has been appropriated by no one, that it just 
 simply grows up and falls down. Of course, the annual grass is a 
 loss after the season it whir'h it grows. I think it is estimated, Mr. 
 Meritt, that the reservation can carry 30,000 head ''. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Walsh. And the Indians themselves have perhaps about 
 5,000 ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is my understanding. 
 
 Senator Walsh. The grazing privilege, I think, would be worth 
 $2 a head, or $1.50, at least. So there is easily $50,000 assets, an 
 annual revenue to those Indians, that at present is not available at 
 all. That was discontinued because of the act of 1907, you will 
 remember. 
 
 The Chairjian. Yes. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Which contemplated the opening of the reser- 
 vation. It seems now that we are not going to open any more than 
 the two eastern rows of townships. I trust that we will be aJ)le to 
 get consideration for that b'ill some time during the session, but in 
 any case there will still be left .$40,000 or $50,000 of grazmg on that 
 
 (Thereupon, at 1 o'clo-k p. m., a recess was taken until 2.30 
 
 o'clock p. m.) 
 
 after recess. 
 
 The committee reassembled at 2.30 o'clock p. m. 
 
 TRIBAL FUNDS, BLACKFEET INDIANS— PURCHASE OF CATTLE. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The justification for this item reads as follows: 
 The amount of §150,000, requested to be set aside from the principal sum o^ deposit 
 to the credit of the Indians of the Blackfeet Keservation m Montana, is ^r the purpose 
 of purchasing live stock to assist the Indians m embarking m fe liy^-stock industry 
 There are at the present time about 2,500 Indians living o'ltha* reservation a number 
 of whom are already successful stockmen and have good herds, but there is quite a 
 
126 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 large number who have no cattle at all. The land on the Blackfeet Reservation is 
 especially adapted to the grazing of live stock and, owing to the shortness of the summer 
 season, is not especially suitable for agricultural purposes. The allotments made to 
 these Indians comprise 280 acres of grazing land and 40 acres or irrigable land each. 
 Owing to the fact that it is impracticable to make a success of agriculture, a large 
 portion of these Indians seek employment elsewhere at day labor, and their homes 
 and allotments are therefore particularly neglected. 
 
 If the reservation is properly stocked with cattle, beneficial use can be made of the 
 grazing facilities available and the general condition of the Indians can be improved 
 by harvesting hay and raising alfalfa and other forage, which can be utiKzed in feeding 
 the live stock, and for wMch a ready market can be had at home on account of the 
 need of providing \vinter food for them. Several years ago the leasing of tribal lands 
 to outsiders lor grazing ourposes was discontinued, with a view to giving the Indians 
 an opportunity to procure herds of their own which were to be grazed on the reserva- 
 tion, and as a result there are at the present time only about 2,500 head of live stock 
 being grazed thereon by outsiders. The office endeavored to make arrangements to 
 purchase live stock from the Blacldeet Reservation 4 per cent fund, but the comp- 
 troller ruled that under the provisions of the act of June 10, 1896 (2^ Stat. L., 354) 
 only one-third of the amount available could be used for that purpose under the law' 
 and, after purchasing stallions needed for improving the horse industry, the balance 
 available was so limited that it was considered inadvisable to make the piu-chase at 
 that time. Many of the Indians are without resources to provide for their own needs 
 and it is necessary, to a large extent, to expend funds to provide for them— a condition 
 which IS excusable in view of the grazing resources of the reservation. 
 
 The balance available of this fund July 1, 1914, including refunds, was $210 823 19 
 which after deducting the sum of $25,297.73, already hvpothecated for the present 
 year, leaves a balance of $185,525.46. " 
 
 Senator Myers. I should like to ask Mr. Meritt why should they 
 not have the $150,000 « The Indians are the recipients of the benefits 
 there. 
 
 Tt^^h^^^^^^^"^^' ■*■ ^^^^^ you have the comparison there, Senator 
 Mr. Meritt. The Blackfeet Indians have a large area of grazing 
 
 Senator Walsh. That is the matter that I was talking about. We 
 had It figured out for Senator White that the cattle will cost $50 per 
 i!® J ■.. J- thmk .you could scarcely get them now for that, but $50 a 
 head lor the purpose of purchasing a thousand head would be $50,000. 
 r nL 1 tfiousand dollars would make it 500 head more. There 
 are 5,000 head on that reservation now 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is grazing for 30,000 head. 
 
 Ihe Chairman. Thirty thousand. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We could use the $150,000 
 
 c«ttir+W^^^\^''l*^'''i™.''°\^^^^^ ^ statement made that the 
 cattle that had been bought for this reservation have done well for a 
 
 thZZ^^^^r.i'^^^.^ ''^^''' ^^^ ^^^^'^"^ g«* ^"i^giT they would eat 
 them up, and then they would go out into the range, and when an 
 extraordinary cold snap came they would die « 
 
 is « W°h.^^'^'''- ^^i' ^'""f °'' *^^t' ^« ^ bothersome problem; that 
 B]«ckiet R problem always. There was a fine herd oA the 
 
 wis d£nn?^ '7*'°''' T^'''' ^^ ^y *^^ I^t«"or Department, and it 
 Tthe rese^w' '"Ti™!." f^^" ^^^^ ^^'^ bad another co d snap 
 ZicfZnZl T ^"""^ ^^ ^^^^^""^ «f the cattle were disposed of. ft 
 diSnosed of r t '"'^' *™^'#° 5^ *^^ C^«^ Reservation. That was 
 it wSbest to cVhTr--.^^"/"uP^'t^^^^* concluded that after all 
 did ?L;?o?fr. Meritt/'' '"' '""'^ ^'"^^* ''''' ^^^^ "^'^ '^'''' 
 tion k^™- ^''' '''' "^^ ^°"^^* ^'000 head for the Crow Reserva- ^ 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 127 
 
 Senator Walsh. The Crows, we understand, have large sums due 
 them under their treaties and the Blackfeet have none — that is, any 
 great sum. Of course those conditions will change, as you know, 
 Senator, and the thing that may have been unwise 10 years ago' 
 with the better supervision that we are getting, the Government 
 operations are getting better, I think, all the time. 
 
 Senator Page. But you would naturally suggest. Senator, that' if 
 the matter had worked out wrong at first that instead of putting into 
 operation all we might put in, we might start off conservatively at 
 first. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I think that is a good suggestion. I was going 
 to say to you that they buy at the outside only 1,500 head, and that, 
 you see, is only about one for every two people on the reservr.tion — 
 one cow for every two people on the reservation. 
 
 Senator Page. Are you fully conversant with the beginnings of 
 this cattle business there on these ranges? Havo you been there 
 enough to say that you could Vvatch them ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. I know the cattle business very well. 
 
 Senator Myers. I might say that Senator Walsh is in the cattle 
 business there himself vei}' extensively. 
 
 Senator Page. The pomt is that when these Indians get hungry 
 they go out and Icill the cattle and sell the hide. 
 
 Senator Walsh. There is no doubt abont that. I am chai'ged 
 with the duty of preparing a bill now for the widow of a man who 
 had a lease on the Cheyenne Reservation, that you yourselves had 
 under consideration some years ago, and of what he had on there — 
 he suffered a loss of 50 per cent in just a few years. There is no doubt 
 that the Indians went out and kiUed them and killed them simply 
 because they were hungry and there was nothing else to do. Of 
 course those things have got to be taken care of, and you have to 
 watch them. 
 
 Senator Page. You think they can be watched, do 3^ou ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. I do. I think myself that the system of a herd 
 a wise one. I believe the wise thing to do would be to give the cattle 
 law to every Indian, and you can take care of the situation; that is, 
 throw a personal responsibihty on every Indian who is competent 
 to take care of the matter and hold him answerable for his cattle. 
 Those that are not competent, those who are aged and infirm and 
 young, who can not do it, you have got to have a tribal herd, if they 
 can not take care of them m families. 
 
 Senator Page. Is that tribal herd under the supervision of a com- 
 petent man usually ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. They usually put a man in charge, you understand. 
 
 Senator Page. Then you think they do get an opportunity to kill 
 them? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Well, it is claimed, and I thmk no doubt with 
 considerable foundation, that it is chiefly due to the want of adequate 
 care on the part of the agent and his help. It was on the Cheyenne 
 agency that this matter occurred that I spoke of, and concededly 
 agent down there was not attending to his duties. 
 
 Senator Page. Ordinarily hide is worth about $10. Thos? Indians 
 could get their spending money for a go.od while if th-y could manage 
 to kill a b?ef now and then. 
 
]^28 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Walsh. But, you understand, the man who is willing to 
 go out and' kill the b?ef is so improvident that if he got $10 tor a hide 
 it would not last hmi at all. x i_ ^ .li ■ 
 
 Senator Page. I am simply expressing my judgment about this 
 matter. If it was my own matter and I had been unsuccessful m the 
 past I would bo conservative enough to take $75,000 rather than 
 $150,000, but if you advise more I will not oppose it. 
 
 Senator Walsh. If you go into it at all you ought to have at least 
 3,000 head to try the thing out. because there is grazing enough there. 
 You try it now, of course, under very favorable auspices, because you 
 can actually cut grass on the reservation now for the care_ of the 
 beeves in the wintertime. There is an abundance of grass right on 
 
 the prairie. • i v i 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Meritt, can you give us any special light on this 
 matter ? 
 
 Mr. Mebitt. I have. visited this reservation, and I can say that it 
 is one of tho finest grazing propositions I saw in the West. There is 
 room there for between 20^000 and 30,000 additional cattle on that 
 reservation, and I feel that we can make better success with a herd 
 of 3,000 than we can with a herd of 1,500, and I believe we can make 
 greater profit for the Indians with a herd of 3.000 than we can with 
 one of 1.500. If this appropriation is allowed we will put this herd 
 under the charge of an expert stockman. He will employ the Indians 
 in assisting him in taking care of the herd. We realize that we must 
 use great care to see that the Indians do not kill the cattle. They 
 have done that heretofore on this reservation, but the Indians there 
 now realize the mistake that they have made, and a large majority 
 of them, I feel sure, will fight vigorou-sly against any cattle killing, 
 because each one will have an interest in the herd. There are some 
 reservation mixed-blood Indians who have made remarkable success 
 with their cattle and sheep raising. 
 
 Senator Page. You bjlieve that you can prevent that kilUng 
 fraudulently 1 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have stopped it to a large extent on the Crow 
 Reservation and we hope to stop it on other reservations. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we approve it. 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from Vermont moves that we appro- 
 priate $150,000 for this purpose. Is there objection? 
 
 (Without objection the item was agreed to.) 
 
 MONEYS DUE FROM INDIANS OF FORT BELKNAP RESERVATION, MONT. 
 
 The next item was as follows: 
 
 _ That any moneys which may be due from the Indians of the Fort Belknap Reserva- 
 tion, State of Montana, and unpaid on June first, nineteen hundred and fifteen, for 
 property purchased under the provisions of the sections of the Indian appropriation 
 acts approved April thirtieth, nineteen hundred and eight (Thirty-fifth Statutes at 
 Large, pages seventy to eighty-three), appropriating the sum of 125,000 for the pur- 
 chase of implements and other equipment for said Indians, under such conditions as 
 the Secretary of the Interior might prescribe for the repayment by the Indians to the 
 Umted States of the sum so expended, and March third, nineteen hundred and nine 
 (Thirty-fifth Statutes at Large, pages seven hundred and eighty-one to seven hundred 
 and ninety-five), authorizing the use of the repayments made by the Indians until 
 June first, nineteen hundred and fifteen, shall be collected as soon thereafter as is 
 practicable. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 129 
 
 Senator Page. What is the necessity for this clause ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This is a reimbursable appropriation. The time al- 
 lowed by Congress was so short that the Indians have not been able 
 to reimbiu-se the entire amount. They have returned to the Treas- 
 ury something like $10,000, but we would like to have the item for 
 a reimbursable appropriation, and giving the Indians on this reser- 
 vation a longer time, about the same time that we are allowing other 
 Indians imder general reimbursable items, and in order to bring that 
 about we would like to have inserted, after the word "practicable" 
 the following language, which was omitted by the House: 
 
 And any moneys heretofore or hereafter repaid by the Indians shall be available 
 for reexpenditure under such conditions as the Secretary of the Interior may pre- 
 scribe for its repayment to the United States in the purchase of seeds, live stock, 
 vehicles, harness, machinery, tools, implements, and other agricultural equipment, 
 and for such other purposes as may be deemed proper in promoting the civilization 
 and support of said Indians until June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and twenty-five. 
 
 That will give us ample time to get these Indians started indus- 
 trially, and will make the appropriation revolving. 
 
 Senator Page. Would that not go out on the point of order, if it was 
 made? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This language was included in our estimates. It 
 might be subject to a point of order under the rules of the Senate, 
 but we would like very much to have that language incorporated in 
 the bill. No appropriation is being made. We are simply making 
 the fund heretofore appropriated revolving. 
 
 Senator Page. It is involved in a continuing appropriation? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Myeks. They could only make the point of order at best. 
 
 Senator Walsh. It does not seem to me that the point of order 
 would lie against it. It is simply continuing the same subject matter 
 that precedes it. 
 
 Senator Page. It is not a limitation of a payment; it is an exten- 
 sion. You can limit an appropriation. Can you extend it? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Here is the point. It is not an appropriation. 
 The Indians own this money. It has already been advanced; it is 
 reimbursable, and they are obliged to pay it back by the 1st of June 
 next, and they will not be able to pay. You are going to extend the 
 time within which they may repay it. It is simply a provision that 
 when they do repay it then the Indian Department can use it agam 
 for some other purpose to be reimbursable again, and so continuing 
 the use of it. . , . 
 
 Senator Page. Senator Eobinson, you are an authority on tnis 
 question. Wbat do you think about it? • .i. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I do not see any objection to msertmg the 
 
 language. . , . i- . 4. 
 
 Senator Page. But what do you say about its being subject to a 
 
 point of order ? ,. , , ., ui. u- ^ 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I am inclined to think that it would be subject 
 
 to a point of order on the ground that it is legislation. 
 Senator Myers. I move that it be amended to that eftect anyway, 
 
 Mr. Chairman, and I will take my chances on it. 
 The item was agreed to. _ j + j „o 
 
 Senator Myees. I move that the entire section be adopted as 
 
 amended. 
 
 82833— VOL 1—15 9 
 
j^gQ INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on adopting the section on page 
 19 besrinning with line 7 and ending with hne 22 
 
 (The sectiSn as amended wr.s agreed to without objection.) 
 
 IRRIGATION SYSTEM, ALLOTTED LAND OF FLATHEAD INDIANS. 
 
 Senator Myers. Now, Mr. Chairman, I offered certain proposed" 
 amendments to this bill, which I offered too late to get prmted m the^ 
 bill, and they are printed here as separate amendments and have 
 been laid before the committee. „. t -i,.- i, i j 
 
 I will take up first your calendar ^o. 226. I wish to be heard upon 
 
 ^It'is for this committee to decide the fate of the Flathead reclama-- 
 tion irrigation project for the benefit of the Indians and whites on 
 the Flathe^id F eservation. There hrs bee]i pbout a miihon and a, half 
 dollars expended on that. As I underst:^nd the expenditures here- 
 tofore have been largely made in such manner os to cover the lands, 
 oi the Indi^>ns, and the' future expenditures t" be mrde m the imme- 
 diate future, I understand will necessfrily be required to be made 
 largely on the lands of the white settlers who went on there mduced" 
 to Taelieve that this reclamation project would be extended, end who 
 are now Hving on the dry lands on which they are unable to make a' 
 living and waiting for the Government to put water on them. 
 
 Now that money that has been appropriated there and the work, 
 that has been done has extended over quite a number of years back- 
 six or eight years. In the last year or two — particularly the last year- 
 there was a great deal of objection made to the appropriation, or to 
 the manner in which it was made and the work conducted — objec- 
 tions made by the Indian Bureau and by various members of the 
 committee of the Senate on the ground that the method of procedure 
 and the law on which it was based was unfair to the Indians. I do 
 not concede that. I have never been able to see it in that light, and 
 I still contend that the old method was perfectly legitimate and fair 
 and safe to the Indians, and all. But, nevertheless, in the interest 
 of expediting this project, and in the interest of peace, the Montana 
 delegation — Senator Walsh and myself. Representatives Evans and; 
 Stout — have agreed with the Indian Bureau that certain changes in ; 
 the law or method of procedure should be made as the Indian Bureau 
 want it done.. 
 
 Now I will state my understanding of the attitude of the Indian. 
 •Bureau — and of course if I am incorrect in any way I would Uke 
 Mr. Meritt to correct me because he laiows about it better than I. 
 I will just state this as a connected part of my brief statement. 
 
 My understanding is that at the beginning of this session the Indian 
 Bureau wanted certain changes made in the method of using this 
 appropriation and the method of procedure, and that the plan of the 
 Indian Bureau was to introduce that as a separate bill, making the 
 change and coupUng with it the amount to be appropriated for this 
 coming year. 1 think the inclination of the bureau was, as evinced 
 in talks between bureau officials and myself, to recommend $500,000, 
 but their plan, as I understand it, was to put it in a separate biU 
 covering this appropriation of say perhaps $500,000. I do not know 
 that that was ever definitely settled, but it was my understandiag, 
 and was agreeable to them; and also couphng with it a change in the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 131 
 
 law as to the methods of procedure. Their idea, as I say, was 
 to put it in a separate bill and not put it on the Indian appropriation 
 bill or the sundry civil bill or on the reclamation bill, or any other 
 bill; but I tliink our delegation— Senator Walsh and myself, and 
 Representatives Evans and Stout— convinced the Indian Bureau that 
 it would be impracticable at this session to get a separate bill throuo-h; 
 that it would be very unwise and unsafe to undertake it in that 
 manner. I beheve it was the understanding between our delegation 
 and the Indian Bureau, and Mr. Lane, Secretary of the Interior, that 
 an mdependcnt bill proposition would be abandoned and that we 
 would all undertake to get it on this bill. 
 
 Now the Indian Bureau, having had in contemplation the plan of 
 a separate bill, made no recommendation last fall or early in the 
 winter, for any estimate or item for the Flathead project to go into 
 this bill, not that they intended to leave it out, or kill it, but, as I say, 
 in pursuance of the idea that it would be done by a separate bill. 
 
 So there was no estimate or recommendation for any appropria- 
 tion in the Indian appropriation bill nor for any in the sundry civil 
 bill nor any in the reclamation biU, the idea being all the time an 
 iadependent bill. Therefore there was no item that went into the 
 Indian appropriation bill on the part of the House committee, and it 
 passed the House without anything for the Flathead reclamation 
 project. The sundry civil bill contains none for it and the reclama- 
 tion bill contains none for it. 
 
 Senator Page. May T interrupt you? You say the Flathead. 
 The same is true as to all of these projects, is it not? They have 
 made no recommendation as to any of them ? 
 
 Senator Myers. As to the Flathead, Fort Peck — I am coming to 
 them. I am taking them up in order. Yes; all of them. Our 
 delegation consulted together a short time ago and felt it was very 
 dangerous to undertake to do this in an independent bill; it was 
 liable to get lost in the shuffle, and that really the proper place for 
 this change in the law was in the Indian bill. So our entire delega- 
 tion, the four of us — Senator Walsh, Representative Evans, Repre- 
 sentative Stout, and myself — after talking over the matter amongst 
 ourselves, made an engagement with Secretary Lane, at which Mr. 
 Sells and Mr. Meritt were to be present. About a week or ten days 
 ago our entire delegation, pursuant to that end, called at the office of 
 Secretary Lane. Mr. Sells was there and Mr. Meritt was there. 
 
 I went in with the delegation, but I am sorry to say that I was 
 not able to remain during the entire talk. I had to go to the Com- 
 mittee on Public Lands, where I had a hearing at that time on. 
 some pressing matters, but I went in with the delegation and assured 
 Secretary Lane and the other officials that I was in hearty accord 
 with my associates, that the delegation was unanimous, and then 
 I had to hurry away to my committee. Senator Walsh was there 
 throughout the interview and will remember what was said. But 
 my understanding of the matter was that the delegation showed the 
 officials the danger of relying upon an independent bill for this, and 
 the unsafety and unwisdom of it, and they all agreed right then 
 and there, after talkmg it over thoroughly, that it was unsafe and 
 unwise, and not best to depend on an independent bill; and the 
 Indian biU having passed the House at the time without any item 
 on it, my understanding is that our delegation had an agreement • 
 
j^32 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 there with Secretary Lane, at which Mr. Sells and Mr Meritt wore 
 preseni to abando/the idea, and to recommend that these changes 
 Fn the aw which they want, and which our delegation assented to, 
 should be put in as an amendment to the Indian appropriation Ml, 
 and the amount to be appropriated would be what the committee 
 saw fit; that they would advise that it go into the Indian appro- 
 priation bill. Is that not true, Senator Walsh ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes. , , • u ^ • . 
 
 Senator Myers. I had to leave, but that is what my associates 
 told me had been the agreement after I left. . ^i. , 
 
 Now, we are here to ask you to put whatever changes in the law 
 that may be agreed upon, and which you deem wise, on this biU as 
 an amendment. As I have said, we have never conceded that the 
 old plan was unfair, but I abandon that and am wOlmg to come 
 here without saying what the changes should be. My associates, 
 havmg inspected the proposed changes, pronounced themselves as 
 satisfied with them, and I am satisfied with whatever they are satis- 
 fied with, and we are here to ask you to put these changes into this 
 biU and to make whatever appropriation is to be made into this 
 bill, because I will tell you, gentlemen, if you do not put it in this 
 biU it is simply going to be lost in the shuffle, and we will get noth- 
 ing, and that project wOl come to an end; it wiU halt, and the white 
 settlers who are there depending on the water for their land will 
 have to move off; they can not make their payments and it will 
 simply result that the Indians will get back their money which is 
 already invested in this project, and I think it is to the interest of 
 the Indians and as a matter of justice to aU that we take whatever 
 procedure, or whatever we are going to do, on this bill. 
 
 I think just before our delegation had come to that agreement I 
 offered a proposed amendment, which I have in my hand here, No. 
 226, making an appropriation of $500,000, and providing for a 
 change of method of procedure in the expenditure of this money, 
 which, I think, is perfectly fair and proper. I understand that it 
 meets the idea of the bureau. What we want to do is to get some- 
 thing started. If Mr. Meritt thinks their suggestions are better, 1 
 am willing to abandon mine and adopt theirs. I fear that this 
 project may otherwise be' lost. I am not tenacious of my amend- 
 ment, but fair ideas should be adopted, and we should proceed 
 along a fair plan. If, upon inspection of this amendment, Mr. 
 Meritt thinks the bureau's idea and suggestions would ■ constitute a 
 better amendment, I am willing to yield to him. My amendment 
 is as follows: 
 
 For continuing the construction of irrigation systems to irrigate the allotted lands 
 of the Indians of the Flathead Reservation in Montana, and the unallotted irrigable 
 lands to be or which have been heretofore disposed of under authority of law, includ- 
 ing the necessary surveys, plans, and estimates, $500,000, the cost of said construc- 
 tion, surveys, plans, and estimates herein, heretofore, or hereafter authorized or 
 expended for said purposes to be distributed equitably and charged pro rata on an 
 acre basis against the lands benefited by. said irrigation project, under rules and 
 regulations to be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior; the amounts expended 
 for the irrigation of the allotted lands of the Indians to be reimbursable in accordance 
 with the provisions of the act of April fourth, nineteen hundred and ten, and the 
 amounts expended for the irrigation of the unallotted irrigable lands to be or which 
 have been heretofore disposed of under authority of law to be reimbursable from the 
 proceeds of the sale of water rights disposed of in accordance with the act of May 
 twenty-ninth, nineteen hundred and eight. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 133 
 
 Now, as to that agreement between the bureau, Sscretary Lane 
 Mr. S3lls, and Mr. Meritt, and ourselves, is that right, Mr Meritt- 
 is that your understanding of the matter? ' 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think, Sanator, you have stated it correctly. 
 
 Senator Myers. And you are willing to advise, and believe it 
 would be best, to abandon the idea of the separate bill and endeavor 
 to get this legislation, such as you wish, whatever the appropriation 
 may be, into this bill ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are ready to cooperate with you in getting an 
 appropriation, accompanied by the desired legislation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How does the act of April 4, 1910, provide 
 that this fund shall be reimbursable? This proposed amendment 
 contemplates that "the amount expended for the irrigation of the 
 allotted lands of the Indians," which would accrue to the Indian 
 land that is allotted land shall be reimbursed in accordance with the 
 act of April 4, 1910. 
 
 Senator Myers. My understanding is that that is the act appro- 
 priating nioney under which we have been operating heretofore and 
 the other is the Court of Claims act. 
 
 SsnatorPAGE. Is that the original act authorizing the project? 
 
 S3nator Myers. No; the 1910 act is not the act authorizing the 
 project. I will get that law and see what it does provide. 
 
 Ssnator Robinson. I am loath to put a provision in there that 
 nobody understands. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. May I make a statement right here ? 
 
 S3nator Myers. Yes, in a moment. The act of 1910 referred back 
 to the original act, the act of 1908, which authorized the beginning of 
 this project. 
 
 Ssnator Robinson. Then there is no distinction placed in the sub- 
 sequent sections relating to the unallotted land; the amount for the 
 lands to be sold is reimbursable, to be made under the act of 1908. 
 So it is just going around the barn twice. Perhaps you had the wrong 
 act there ? 
 
 S3nator Myers. Yes. 
 
 Ssnator Robinson. May I make a suggestion with regard to it ? 
 A great deal of time can be faciUtated if you have time to look these 
 matters up on the outside and then present them here after you have 
 looked them up. 
 
 Ssnator Myers. I have not had the time to do so, as I have been 
 very much engaged. My observation is that the committee wants to 
 be shown everything for itself, and I think it would be the better plan 
 to do that. 
 
 Ssnator Walsh. That has already been done. Senator Robinson. 
 We have covered the matter with great care and have entirely agreed 
 upon the administrative feature of it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Let me ask you this : What is the difference in 
 the manner in which these funds are to be reimbursable ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. I am very glad to say, Mr. Chairman and gentle- 
 men, that I am in entire accord with the Indian Bureau in the belief 
 that the old act was not equitable; it was not right. 
 
 Senator Page. In what respect ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. I am gomg to explain why. Under the old act 
 the plan in the first place contemplated correctly that the charges 
 justly assignable to the land of the whites should be paid to them in 
 
J^g^ INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 annual instaUments the same as any ordinary reclamation proj^ect 
 and it is provided that the amount due on account of the Ind an 
 W shoufd be taken from the Indian fund from time to time for the 
 pS-pose of paying the amount assignable to the other lands Now, 
 L Ldian might select land not under the irrigation project at dl. 
 He would go somewhere above the ditch and select his land bo he 
 got httle or no benefit at all from the irrigation project, and yet his 
 distributive share of the money in the Treasury belongmg to the tribe 
 was actuaUy taken to pay for the charges against the Indian funds. 
 Now, the change that is made here corrects the whole of that bums 
 have been taken from the tribal funds and transferred to the General 
 Treasury in order to make payments from tmie to time on the Indian 
 lands The change proposed contemplates that that money shall be 
 put back into the Treasury, and that out of that fund so much of it 
 as belongs to those individual Indians whose lands are under the 
 ditch shall be taken out and applied to the payment from time to 
 time; so that the general tribal fund is no longer answerable for it, 
 but only so much of the tribal fund as is assignable to those Indians 
 who have selected their land under the ditch. That is a very just 
 change. That is the situation. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I heartily agree with that proposition. I have 
 been trying to write that into a great deal of legislation here and have 
 been unable to do it for one reason or another. If you are sure that 
 that is the effect of this provision, I am in accord with you ; but in 
 accordance with the statement of Senator Myers and Mr. Meritt it 
 does not appear to me as yet that that is the effect of it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. May I make a statement right here ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. I took the hberty of interrupting Senator 
 Walsh. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I had gotten through with the answer. I may 
 say. Senator, that I went over the matter with Mr. Meritt, and it 
 seemed to me that it would meet the necessities of the case, and I 
 suggested, I believe, an amendment, which I see has been incorpo- 
 rated in the bill, as I thought to more effectively reach the result. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I wanted to correct a misapprehension in your mind. 
 Senator, that the amendment offered by Senator Myers is the amend- 
 ment proposed by the office. Senator Myers has submitted separate 
 amendments, and they are not in accordance with the amendment 
 that the office and the department have submitted to Congress. They 
 are found in House Document No. 1481, Sixty-third Congress, third 
 session. 
 
 Senator Myers. I said if you wanted another amendment, Mr. 
 Meritt, I was perfectly willing to accept it. I just offered this amend- 
 ment to get the matter started. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I realize that you understood the difference. The last 
 Congress, as you wiU recall, authorized the department to make an 
 investigation, and the Indian appropriation act approved August 1, 
 1914 (Public No. 160), contained this provision: 
 
 Provided further, That in addition to what is herein required there shall be sub- 
 mitted to Congrees on the first Monday in December, nineteen hundred and four- 
 teen, as to the Uintah, Shoshone, Flathead, Blackteet, and Fort Peck Reclamation 
 projects, a report showing the status of the water rights of the Indians and the 
 method of financing said projects, together with such other information as the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior may deem necessary for a full and complete understanding 
 of all the facts and conditions in connection therewith. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 135 
 
 The Indian bill did not pass Congress until August 1. The office 
 immediately appouited a commission of three to investio'atc the 
 Flathead, Elaclrfeet, and Fort Peck irrigation projects, ;md that 
 committee submitted its report to the office in October. At that 
 time we had already submitted our estimate to the Treasury Depart- 
 ment for this biU. We are required under the law to have our esti- 
 mates at the Treasury Department on the 15th of October. As a 
 result of the lateness of that report, we were not able to include this 
 legislation, and our plan of financing these pi-oiects in our original 
 estimate, and we therefore submitted a supplementary estimate. 
 We beilieve that this legislation will place these projects upon a sound 
 financial basis, and one that wiU be fair to the Indians ancf the whites, 
 and will also enable these projects to be completed at an earlier date 
 than if continued to be financed on the old basis, which we consider 
 unfair to the Indians. 
 
 This legislation was taken up with Senator Walsh, as he stated, 
 and we made sorne sli2;ht changes in the proposed draft of legislation 
 in accordance with his recommendation. I believe this legislation 
 is fair to aH interests, and that if it is included in the Indian biU for 
 this year it wiU straighten out this much discussed question of financ- 
 ing these three irrigation projects of the Flathead, Blackfeet, and Fort 
 Peck Reservations. 
 
 I would like to offer for the record this document, House Document 
 1481, which contains the legislation, and, if agreeable, I will read it. 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed 
 to announce, at auch time as in his opinion seems proper, the charge for construction of 
 irrigation systems on the Blackfeet, Flathead, and Port Peck Indian Reservations in 
 Montana, which shall be made against each acre of land irrigable by the systems on 
 each of said reservations. Such, charges shall be assessed against the land irrigable 
 by the systems on each said reservation in the proportion of the total construction 
 cost which each acre of such land bears to the whole area of irrigable land thereunder. 
 On the 1st day of December after the announcement by the Secretary of the Interior 
 of the construction charge, the allottee, entryman, purchaser, or owner of such irri- 
 gable land which might have been furnished water for irrigation during the whole 
 of the preceding irrigation season, from ditches actually constructed, shall pay to 
 the superintendent of the reservation where the land is located, for deposit to the 
 credit of the United States as a reimbursement of the appropriations made or to be 
 made for construction of said irrigation systems, 5 per cent of the construction charge 
 fixed for his land, as an initial installment, and shall pay the balance of the charge 
 in 15 annual installments, the first five of which shall each be 5 per cent of the 
 construction charge and the remainder shall each be 7 per cent of the con- 
 struction charge. The first of the annual installments shall become due and pay- 
 able on December 1 of the fifth calendar year after the initial installment: Provided, 
 That any allottee, entryman, purchaser, or owner may, if he so elects, pay the whole 
 or any part of the construction charges within any shorter period: Provided further , 
 That the Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, grant such extension of 
 the time for payments, herein required from Indian allottees or their heirs as he may 
 determine proper and necessary, so long as such land remains in Indian title. 
 
 That the tribal funds heretofore covered into the Treasury of the United States m 
 partial reimbursement of appropriations made for constructing irrigation systems on 
 said reservations shall be placed to the credit of the tribe and be available for such 
 expenditure for the benefit of the tribe as may be made under existing law. _ 
 ■ And there is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury of the United 
 States not otherwise appropriated, -the sum of $525,187.93 for this purpose, $4,544.40 
 thereof to be credited to the Indians of the Blackfeet Reservation, $440,217.78 thereof 
 to be credited to the Indians of the Flathead Reservation, and the balance, $80,425.75, 
 to be credited to the Indians of the Fort Peck Reservation, the same being the amounts 
 heretofore covered into the Treasury on this account. The cost of constructing irri- 
 gation systems to irrigate the allotted lands of the Indians on these reservations shall 
 *e reimbursed to the United States as hereinbefore provided, and no further reim- 
 bursements from the tribal funds shall be made on account of said urigatipn works, 
 
136 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 except that all charges against Indian allottees or their heirs herein authorized unless 
 otherwise paid may be paid from the individual shares in the tribal funds when the 
 LSavailabirfoT- disttibution, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 TLtth^^sum of $50,000 be, and the same is hereby, appropriated out of any money 
 not otherwise appropriated for continuing construction o the irrigation systems on 
 the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Montana, which shall be immediately available 
 and remain available until expended: Provided, That the entryman upon the surplus 
 unallotted lands to be u-rigated by such systems shall, m addition to compliance 
 with the homestead laws, before receiving patent for the lands covered by his entry, 
 pay the charges apportioned against such tract as herein authorized, and a fai ure to 
 make any two payments when due shall render the entry subject to cancellation 
 with the forfeiture to the United States of all rights acquired under the provisions of 
 this act, as well as of any moneys paid on account thereof. The purchaser of any 
 Indian allotment to be irrigated by such systems, purchased upon approval of the 
 Secretary of the Interior, before the charges against said allotment herein authorized 
 shall have been paid, shall pay all charges remaining unpaid at the tune of such 
 purchase, and in all patents or deeds for such purchased allotments and also in all 
 patents in fee to allottees or their heirs issued before payment of all such charges 
 herein authorized to be made against their allotments, there shall be expressed that 
 there is reserved upon the lands therein described a lien for such charges and such 
 lien may be enforced, or, upon payment of the delinquent charges, may be released 
 by the Secretary of the Interior. (Acts Mar. 1, 1907, vol. 34, p. 1035; Apr. 4, 1910, vol. 
 36, p. 277; Mar. 3, 1911, vol. 36, p. 1066; Aug. 24, 1912, vol. 37, p. 526; June 30, 1913, 
 vol. 38, p. 90; Aug. 1, 1914, vol. 38, p. 593.) . 
 
 That the sum of §500,000 be, and the same is hereby, appropriated, out of any 
 money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for continuing construction of the 
 irrigation systems on the Flathead Indian Reservation in Montana, which shall be 
 immediately available and remain available until expended: Provided, That the 
 payments for the proportionate cost of the construction of said systems required of 
 settlers on the surplus unallotted land by section 9, chapter 1495, Statutes of the 
 United States of America, entitled "An act for the survey and allotment of lands now 
 embraced within the limits of the Flathead Indian Reservation in the State of Mon- 
 tana, and the sale and disposal of all surplus lands after allotment," as amended by 
 section 15 of the act of May 29, 1908 (35 Stat. L., 448), shall be made as herein provided: 
 Provided further, That nothing contained in the act of May 29, 1908 (35 Stat. I;., 444) 
 shall be constru.^d to exempt the purchaser of any Indian allotment purchased prior 
 to the expiration of the traat period thereon from any charge for construction of the 
 irrigation system incurred up to, the time of such purchase, except such charges as 
 shall have accrued and become due in accordance with the public notices herein 
 provided for, or to relieve the owners of all land allotted to Indians in severalty from 
 payment of the charges herein required to be made against said land on accoimt of 
 construction of the irrigation systems; and in carrying out the provisions of said section 
 the exemption therein authorized from charges incurred against allotments purchased 
 prior to the expiration of the trust period thereon shall be the amount of the charges 
 or installments thereof due under public notice herein provided for up to the time of 
 such purchase (acts Apr. 28, 1904, vol. 33, p. 305; Apr. 30, 1908, vol. 35, p. 83; May 29, 
 1908, vol. 35, p. 450; Mar. 3, 1909, vol. 35, p. 795; Apr. 4, 1910, vol. 36, p. 277; Mar. 3, 
 1911, vol. 36, p. 1066; Aug. 24, 1912, vol. 37, p. 526; Juns 30, 1913, vol. 38, p. 90; Aug. 
 1, 1914, vol. 38, p. 593). 
 
 That the sum of $100,000 be, and the same is hereby, appropriated, out of any 
 monej^ in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for continuing construction of the 
 irrigation systems on the Fort Peck Indian Reservation in Montana, which shall be 
 immediately available and remain available until expended: Provided, That the pro- 
 portionate cost of the construction of said systems required of settlers and entrymen 
 on the surplus unallotted irrigable land by section 2 of the act of May 30, 1908 (35 Stat. 
 L., 558), shall be paid as herein provided: Provided further, That nothing contained 
 in said act of May 30, 1908, shall be construed to exempt the purchaser of any Indian 
 allotment purchased prior to the expiration of the trust period thereon from any 
 charge for construction of the irrigation system incurred up to the time of such pur- 
 chase, except such charges as shall have accrued and become due in accordance with 
 the public notices herein provided for, and the purchaser of any Indian allotment to 
 be irrigated by said sjrstems purchased upon approval of the Secretary of the Interior 
 before the charges against said allotment herein authorized shall have been paid shall 
 pay all charges remaining unpaid at the time of such purchase, and in all patents or 
 deeds for such purchased allotments, and also in all patents in fee to allottees or their 
 heirs issued before payment shall have been made of all such charges herein author- 
 ized to be made against their allotments, there shall be expressed that there is reserved 
 
INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 137 
 
 upon the lands therein described a lien for such charges, and such lien may be enforced 
 or upon payment of the delinquent charges may be released by the Secretary of the 
 Interior (acts May 30, 1908, vol. 35, p. 558; Aug. 24, 1912, vol. 37, p. 526; June 30, 
 1913, vol. 38, p. 90; Aug. 1, 1914, vol. 38, p. 593). 
 
 That in addition to the construction charges every allottee, entryman, purchaser, 
 or owner shall pay to the superintendent of the reservation a maintenance and opera- 
 tion charge based upon the total cost of maintenance and operation of the systems on 
 the several reservations, and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to fix 
 such maintenance and operation charge upon such basis as shall be equitable to the 
 owners of the irrigable land. Such charges Avhen collected shall be available for ex- 
 penditure in the maintenance and operation of the systems on the reservation where 
 collected: Provided, That delivery of water to any tract of land may be refused on 
 account of nonpayment of any charges herein authorized, and the same may, in the 
 discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be collected by a suit for money owed: 
 Provided further, That the rights of the United States to water for Indian lands shall be 
 continued in full force and effect until the Indian title to such land is extinguished. 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to prescribe such 
 rules and regulations and issue such notices as may be necessary to carry into effect 
 the provisions of this act, and he is hereby authorized and directed to determine the 
 area of land on each reservation which may be irrigated from constructed ditches and 
 to determine what allowance, if any, shall be made for ditches constructed by indi- 
 viduals for the diveision and distribution of a partial or total water supply for allotted 
 or surplus unallotted land: Provided, That if water be available prior to the announce- 
 ment of the charges herein authorized, the Secretary of the Interior may furnish water 
 to land under the systems on the said reservations, making a reasonable charge there- 
 for, and such charges when collected may be used for construction or maintenance of 
 the systems through which such water shall have been furnished. 
 
 The work to be done with the amounts herein appropriated for the completion of 
 these projects may be done by the Reclamation Service, on plans and estimates fur- 
 nished by that service and approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 All laws and parts of laws in conflict herewith are hereby repealed. 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Meritt, I was not able to be here all the time 
 nor could I foUow you all the time. How much do you appropriate 
 fortheFlatheads? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We appropriate $500,000 for the Flatheads, $50,000 
 for Blackfeet, and $100,000 for Fort Peck. We also ask for an appro- 
 priation of $525,187.93 for the purpose of reimbursing the tribal 
 funds that have heretofore been used. 
 
 Senator Myers. Those some are aU in here as a part of the amend- 
 ment, and will become a part of the bill if adopted? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; this legislation will make each acre of land 
 bear its pro rata share of the cost of the irrigation, and each Indian 
 allottee will pay his share, and each homesteader will pay his pro rata 
 share, and there will be a hen on the land to secure payment. 
 
 Senator Myers. It is in the nature of one amendment ? 
 
 Mt* Jk^^T'TiTTT "VgS sit 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my series of amend- 
 ments about the Flathead, Blackfeet, and Fort Peck Reservations, 
 and move the adoption of this in heu thereof. I will say, m justice 
 to myself, that there have been some complaints made here that when 
 I read my amendments I was not able to instantly explain the several 
 acts that were referred to in them. I did not draw it._ I gave direc- 
 tions for it to be drawn according to this plan. My idea was to let 
 the water on the Indian lands be paid for according to the la^ under 
 which the appropriations had heretofore been made, and that tJie 
 water on the white settlers land be paid for under the law of the gen- 
 eral reclamation act. And I had understood that my amendment 
 was so drawn. I find on looking it up that it is quite complicated 
 and refers back to various acts, one amending another, and it taKes 
 
138 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 some time to run them down. There may be some mistake in the 
 acts cited here. Nevertheless, be that as it may, I felt from the 
 beginning; that I was wiUing for any reasonable solution that the 
 Indian Bureau might offer, and therefore I withdraw my amend- 
 ments on the subject, and move the adoption of this amendment to 
 the bill. ^ , , , 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator White). It was suggested by some 
 one that some explanation be given. What is the pleasure of the 
 committee with reference to that ? 
 
 Senator Page. We have heard the reading of this amendment by 
 the assistant commissioner. It appropriates $1,275,187.93 for the 
 State of Montana. I confess that so far as I can see I have no objec- 
 tion to the appropriation, but it does seem to me that an appropria- 
 tion of this size ought not to be passed upon the moment we have 
 simply completed reading the amendment. It ousht to go over. 
 We ought to have time to' think of an amendment that carries more 
 than a million and a quarter, and not put it upon its immediate 
 passage, as you have suggested. Senator. 
 
 Senator Myers. I did not suggest immediate passage, but I just 
 made the motion to get it before the committee. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, if I may be permitted to take five 
 minutes, I fullj^ agree with Senator Page that we ought to have time, 
 at least overnight, to reflect upon this matter; and to aid, if I can 
 take five minutes, I will be glad to give Senator Page and the rest 
 of the Senators interested a little more definite idea about that. The 
 Senator is not quite right. The actual appropriation is just S500,000, 
 $100,000, and $50,000. That is realh the appropriation. Senator 
 Page will understand that in the past out of the Indian fund various 
 funds have been taken which have been turned into the General 
 Treasury in order to reimburse the General Treasury for expenditures 
 made. It is proposed to turn that back into the Indian fund. That 
 is the million odd dollars that Senator Page has in mind. It is just 
 simply transferring that amount of money back into the Indian fund 
 where it came from. 
 
 Senator Page. Did it come from the Indian fund, Senator ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. It came from the Indian fund, and was from time 
 to time paid iato the General Treasury in the way of reimbursement, 
 being charges due from the Indian lands. 
 
 Senator Page. I had supposed that was an assessment from the 
 general funds of the United States Treasury, to be reimbursed 
 later on. 
 
 Senator Walsh. That is right, and the reimbursement has been 
 made from the tribal funds for these three tribes to the extent named. 
 
 Senator Page. We take the money out of the United States Treas- 
 ury and credit it back to the Indians, because we have wronged them 
 in the transactions we have had in the past ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Exactly. So you take it out of the Federal 
 Treasury and put it back in the tribal fund. 
 
 Senator Page. We take it out of the General Treasury and pay 
 it out? 
 
 Senator Walsh. In the first place, yes. 
 
 Senator Page. Now, we cancel that charge and take it out of the 
 general fund and credit it to the Indian fund ? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 139 
 
 Senator Walsh. No, you have actually taken something like a 
 million and a half out of the General Treasury, and the amount that 
 is mdicated there you have taken out of the tribal fund and put into 
 the General Treasury to reimburse that. 
 
 Senator Page. Am I wrong about that ? Have we taken it out of 
 the Indian fund ? I did not know the Indians had any fund out of 
 which to take it. I thought we had taken it out of the General 
 Treasury, to be reimbursed later by the Indian fund. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Every dollar that was paid by the settlers for 
 then- lands has gone into that fund. Every dollar that has been paid 
 for any timber lands that have been sold has gone into that fund. 
 
 Senator Page. In other words, a part of it has been reimbursed, 
 but except as it has been reimbursed we have taken it from the Gen- 
 eral Treasury, have we not 1 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. And paid it out? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. And the only matter that is in controversy is this: 
 Are we really getting the money back, or are we reheving the reim- 
 bursable part which we have had in the past, and leaving the Indian 
 without that charge to his estate? 
 
 Senator Walsh. You are leaving the general tribal fund without 
 the charge, but you are leaving the charge against a part of the fund 
 coming to the Indians that have taken their lands under the ditch. 
 You are still going to take that money again at the proper time out 
 of the Indian fund to reimburse the General Treasury. In other 
 words, as the settlers pay the Government, or pay for the Indians' 
 land — their portion — so that the Indians will get the benefit of it. 
 
 Senator Page. Will you state, so we can get it in the record, just 
 the facts in regard to that reimbursable fund, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Congress heretofore made direct appropriations from 
 the Treasury of the United States for the construction of these three 
 projects, to be reimbursed out of the tribal funds of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. How much has been reimbursed ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The amount that Is proposed to be appropriated here, 
 $525,187.93, has been taken out of the funds of the Indians and placed 
 to their credit in the Treasury as a reimbursement for moneys hereto- 
 fore advanced out of the Treasury for the construction of those irri- 
 gation projects. 
 
 Senator Page. You say this money has been taken out of the 
 Indian fund ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I thought it had been taken out of the United 
 States Treasury and practically loaned to the Indians, to be reim- 
 bursed later on. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It was originally. 
 
 Senator Walsh. And they have paid it back. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They have paid it back to the extent of more than 
 $500,000. 
 
 Senator Page. So we are going to credit this back to their account ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. To the tribal fund, and take out of that fund from 
 time to time only so much of it as justly belongs to the Indians under 
 the project. 
 
140 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. And make each irrigated acre of land pay its pro rata 
 charge for irrigating— make the Indian pay his pro rata charge and 
 make the white man pay his pro rata charge— and change the method 
 of financing this project from the way it has been heretofore financed, 
 namely, make a direct appropriation out of the Treasury and require 
 the Indians to reimburse that appropriation out of their tribal funds, 
 and later collecting certain amounts over a long period of years from 
 the white landowners under that project. 
 
 Ssnator Page. Under this new plan, if it shaU prove that the 
 project has been a bad one, a losing project, you do not subject the 
 Indians to that loss, do you? 
 
 Mr. ilERiTT. No, sir, The project on the Flathead Keservation 
 is a good one, provided it is financed along equitable lines, namely, 
 that the white people shall pay their pro rata share, and that the 
 Indian allottees shall pay their pro rata share. 
 
 Senator Page. Upon the supposition that all these lands are taken 
 up, and all pay their share, we wiU come out whole, but supposing 
 it should turn out that the lands were not all taken up ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The lands have already been allotted to the Indians, 
 and there are white homesteaders there now under the project, and 
 they are anxious to have their land irrigated. They are making 
 complaints that the lands are not being irrigated fast enough, and. 
 that it is a hardship on them. 
 
 Sanator Page. You believe that the land will eventually pay all 
 the cost of this project? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There is no doubt about that in my mind. The land 
 is of splendid value when it is irrigated. 
 
 S3nator Myers. I do not think there is any doubt about it at all. 
 Nobody who has ever seen them has any doubt about it. 
 
 The Acting Chaieman (Senator White). Does the money come 
 out of the amount that they earned through the irrigated lands? 
 In other words, has the irrigation enabled them to refund this money 
 in any way ? 
 
 Ssnator Myers. They will have a certain number of years within 
 which to refund this money. 
 
 The Acting Chairman (S3nator White). I mean up to date. 
 You say there is $500,000 they have replaced in the Treasury that this 
 bill proposes to refund. Was any of that $500,000 earned by the use 
 of irrigable lands ? 
 
 Ssnator Walsh. No; it was by the sale of the unallotted lands. 
 
 The Acting Chairman (S3nator White). In other words, discon- 
 nected entirely from the irrigation project? 
 
 Sjnator Walsh. No, not exactly, because 
 
 The Acting Chaieman (Ssnator White). Oh, you sold the irriga- 
 ble lands ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. We sold the irrigable lands, and the settlers paid 
 that money. 
 
 The Acting Chaieman (Senator White). And the Indians were 
 credited with the amount ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes. 
 
 The Acting Chaieman (Senator White). I see. 
 
 Senator Walsh. If I may be pardoned for just a few moments, 
 Senators, Mr. Meritt reminded you that in the last appropriation act 
 It was provided that a commission should be appointed to go out 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 141 
 
 and examine these projects, and report to you the whole thing, about 
 the system of financing, about the pr actio abihty of the projects, the 
 progress of the work, and the whole matter. That commission went 
 out on the grounds, looked the whole thing over, and came back. I 
 have the report here, and I want to invite your attention to the pro- 
 visions regarding the Flatheads. When this matter was here before 
 I apprehend that there was no question about abandoning the Flat- 
 head irrigation project, .nor any hesitancy in the work of completing 
 it as spe'edUy as it was practicable to do it. It was suggestecf, how- 
 ever, and very properly, that these changes ought to be made in the 
 administrative features under which the project was being carried 
 on and financed. That has all been adjusted. You will bear in 
 mind that this half million doUars which is spoken of here has been 
 already paid by the settlers who have taken up their lands. They 
 took up the lands on the project on the understanding that appro- 
 priations would be made from time to time by Congress for the 
 irrigation of these lands, and that they would make annual payments 
 in order to reimburse the Government for the expenditures, made. 
 That money has already been paid into the Treasury. Likewise as 
 the country develops there will be a demand for the timber that is 
 there. Timber does not command a very good price now, and there 
 is a great asset that the Indians have which wOl eventually go to 
 make up this amount which you appropriate annually, so far as it is 
 chargeable to them, but the use of that timber depends upon the 
 development of the country around, and the country around wiU 
 not develop until this irrigation project is carried on. 
 
 The Acting Chaiemax (Senator White). Let me ask you one ques- 
 tion. How much has the Government realized from the sale of these 
 irrigable lands ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. They have realized this half a million dollars from 
 the sale of the lands, whether irrigable or not. 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator White). You do not know what 
 proportion of that is irrigable ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. No, I do not; but I dare say the greater portion 
 was, because the lands that are irrigable were the ones that were 
 taken up. 
 
 The Acting Chairmax (Senator White). But for this irrigation 
 project you think this money would not have reached the Treasury, 
 because the land would not have been entered ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Certainly not. That is only a very small portion 
 of it. You see, Senator, that lands that are irrigable, that are put 
 under the irrigation project, as a matter of course, will immediately 
 acquire a value. They say the Government is going to put an irriga- 
 tion project here and irrigate the lands, and consequently those lands 
 raise very rapidly in value, and their value is estimated in reference 
 to that condition of things. The lands above the ditch are not sold 
 at anvwhere near the price of the lands below the ditch. The question 
 is, What appropriation should be made from time to time m order to 
 carry this out. That is stated here. One hundred thousand dollars 
 was appropriated last year, and we represented to you as forcibly as 
 we could at that time how wasteful it is to appropriate a trifling sum. 
 You can not carry on the work with any sort of economy that way. 
 The commission looking the thing over recommended the appropria- 
 tion of a little over $1,000,000— $1,041,000, or something hke that. 
 
142 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Perhaps Mr. Meritt has the figures. But in considering the general 
 disp«4ion to economize and that kind of thing we felt that we ought 
 to ticc'Hl" t.) the suggestion of the department and make that an even 
 8500,000, and that'' is what has been recommended and what we are 
 
 askins; for. , „ . . . ui, i 
 
 I want to read you from the roport of the commission with refer- 
 ence to that feature of it. They say here : 
 
 As has been previously stated, there are under this project 97,000 acres (^ allotted 
 land and 55,000 acres of land other than Indian, namely, homestead land, btate land, 
 and 'vacant land. It is the opinion of this board that, in working out the plan of 
 properly distributing the waters having their sources m the tribal timberlands that 
 thelauildin'i- of a comprehensive system sufficient in size to convey water to the home- 
 stead as well as the Indian land, the most economic plan was followed to control the 
 water supply, also to properly protect the Indians' water rights. The building of a 
 system to have conveyed water to the Indians' lands only would eventually have 
 been fraught with many complications, and tha Indians would beyond doubt sooner 
 or later have lost valuable water rights by homesteaders not under the system filing 
 on and making a beneficial use of the water. The understanding of the homesteader 
 that water would eventually be delivered to his land (however, no definite promise 
 was made on the part of the United States as to date of delivery) enabled the United 
 States, as agent for the Flathead Tribe, to dispose of practically all then: surplus 
 lands at the appraised value. 
 
 I want to pause here to say to the committee that, as a matter of 
 course, in order to carry on the system as economically as you can, 
 you can not carry on an economic system for the irrigation of the 
 Indian only, because you construct your main ditches right on down, 
 and they pass the unallotted lands, which are passed right into the 
 hands of the settlers. On the next tract to it is an Indian allotment, 
 and the next is unallotted land that has been filed upon, and then an 
 Indian allotment will come. So they are interspersed among each 
 other. So that any system you devise at all has got to be one to 
 cover all the lands under it. That is the only economic way to carry 
 it out. 
 
 The Indians and whites under the various divisions on this reservation are demand- 
 ing continually that irrigation water be furnished for the allotments and homesteads 
 taken as irrigable land at the earliest possible date as well as to be informed of the esti- 
 mated costs. Under the present method of financing this project it is absolutely 
 impossible to accurately estimate the cost as it depends to a large extent on the rate of 
 progress of the work, which progress is entirely governed by the annual appropriation; 
 for example, if the-annual appropriation be limited to §100,000 for this project it will 
 take about 50 years to complete it, and in the meantime many of the Indians and 
 homesteaders will be left in a destitute condition ; while, on the other hand, if 5!500,000 
 are rnade available each year for construction purposes, the work can be completed 
 within a period of 10 years. It can readily be seen that the work extended over a 
 period of 50 years will probably cost 50 per cent more than if comlpeted. within a 
 period of 10 years. 
 
 And that, I take it, was one of the impelling reasons that moved 
 the commission to recommend the very large appropriation of 
 81,050,000, or $1,041,000, as my recollection is. 
 
 A word of explanation is necessary there. When it says that the 
 project wiU not be completed for 10 years in the one case or 50 years 
 in the other case, I apprehend the commissioners do not mean to 
 say that no part of the system can be used until that time. That is, 
 it simply means that a little of it can be put in under irrigation one 
 yea,r, and a httle more the next year, and a little more the next, and 
 a Uttle more the following year. But the entire area wiU not be 
 under irrigation under this time. Indeed, by the appropriation of 
 the year before last the ditches were extended so that a considerable 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 143 
 
 additional area was covered, and my understanding is that the Recla- 
 mation Service has mapped out a plan for the Indian Office by 
 which by the expenditure of this appropriation fund now recom- 
 mended, $500,000, the ditches will be extended so that the hopes 
 and expectations of a good many of the Indians, as well as the white 
 settlers, will be met. 
 I continue : 
 
 It is also our opinion that no injustice lias been done the Indians on the Flathead 
 Eeservation m res^rd to irrigation matters, except the hvpothecating of their tribal 
 assets for the payment of the svstom instead of attaching the cost of the system to 
 the tracts of land irns-otpd, nor will an injustice be done, provided future appropria- 
 tions are of sufficient magnitude to permit of early completion of the imsation 
 systems. ^ 
 
 The removal of the objectionable feature as stated abi.ve toII gave an opportunity 
 to assist the Indian by using a part of the tribal funds to start him in farming opera- 
 tions and thereby enable him to make a beneficial use of the waters delivered to his 
 land. 
 
 I want to speak about that for a moment. Under this amendment 
 as proposed the Indian Service does not take this money that is 
 chargeable against the Indian lands immediately for the reimburse- 
 ment of the General Treasury. They are given the privilege under 
 that to reimburse the General Treasury from the tribal funds from 
 time to time as they shall direct. Meanwhile, they could use the 
 entire tribal funds— that is my understanding of it, at least 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is correct. 
 
 Senator Walsh. To help the Indians instead of using it to pay for 
 the water, and buy a team of horses for them, or a cow, and otherwise 
 equip them so that they could work their irrigated allotments. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I might say that was one of the principal objections 
 to the old method of financing the projects, that it absorbed aU the 
 tribal funds, and we could not use any of those funds to help the 
 Indians get started on their allotments. All those funds were used 
 for the purpose of reimbursing funds paid out of the Treasury for 
 the irrigation not only of Indian lands, but white lands. 
 
 Senator Page. They were hypothecated, were they not ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I wiU continue : 
 
 This reservation was opened May 2, 1910, to homestead entry and in some parts 
 of the reservation, principally that part known as Camas Prairie and Little Bitter 
 Root valleys, is settled by homesteaders save a very few Indian allotments. We are 
 of the opinion that the various units which aire to furnish water to .the parts of the 
 reservation allotted to Indians, should be pushed to completion as early as possible 
 ia order to protect the Indians' water rights and to encourage him in farming, but we 
 do not favor the construction of ditches to cover Camas Prairie or the Little Bitter 
 Root valleys, where the white man has practically all the land, unless the act of 
 Congress approved April 23, 1904, can be so amended as to provide that the cost of 
 said construction be attached to such tract of land irrigated therefrom and the tribal 
 assets not held for payment. 
 
 I thought it would be wise for the Senators to have these comments 
 in mind in considering the features of the amendment. 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Meritt, if this amendment meets all objections 
 tp the way the project has hitherto been conducted, and if it as now 
 brought to a perfectly fair and equitable basis by this, what is the 
 objection to having a larger amount appropriated, if we have got 
 on the right basis, $750,000 or $1,000,000? They recommend 
 $1,400,000, according to my recollection. What is the objection 
 
144 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 to going a little faster if we have got on the right basis. These people 
 have been held back for a long time. ,. ,i . , .■,. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We realize that it would be impracticable to ask this 
 committee to appropriate more than a million and a quarter for the 
 project for this year. . . ^„.„ „„„ mi . • 
 
 Senator Myers. You are only appropriating 1650,000. ihat is 
 the amount appropriated. , j. , 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We also wanted to keep the total amount ot the 
 Indian appropriation bill down to a reasonable limit. One objec- 
 tion to placing this appropriation in the Indian bill is this : It will so 
 increase the total of the Indian bill that we are afraid the committees 
 will begin to cut down on other items in the bill where we absolutely 
 need the money for the support and civilization of the Indians on 
 various other reservations. 
 
 Senator Myers. You consent, however, for the bureau, that these 
 amounts do go in ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Myees. Then I will accept your offer, so far as I am con- 
 cerned. 
 
 Senator Lane. I would like to ask about that Blackfeet Agency. 
 Are the Indians using any water from any of these projects ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We are only asking for an appropriation of 150,000 
 for the Blackfeet project. I personally do not believe that the 
 Blackfeet project wiU be the success that the Flathead project will 
 be ultimately. We are asking for $500,000 for the Flathead,> and 
 only. $50,000 for the Blackfeet. We are going to use that money 
 simply to finish the construction work on a project that is now being 
 completed. 
 
 Senator Myees. I think this is to be borne in mind, Mr. Meritt, 
 looking at it from the bureau's standpoint, and what you regard as 
 adequate and fair and just, that if $500,000 only is appropriated, 
 put in here as an amendment, in conference it is inevitable it will be 
 cut down some, if you get it through at all. The conferees will prob- 
 ably cut it down to $250,000. You can always look forward to that. 
 
 Senator Lane. How about the Blackfeet? Are not some of those 
 projects practically completed? Take the Seville unit. Is not that 
 practically completed? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; some of the projects are practically com- 
 pleted. This appropriation we are asking for now is not for the pur- 
 pose of beginning a new project, but for the purpose of completing 
 projects that are now in course of construction, and. also constructing 
 laterals. 
 
 Senator Lane. I know. What I was trying to get at was this: 
 There have been large amounts of money spent on that project, the 
 Two Medicine project, down in what is called the Seville Unit, about 
 5,000 or 6,000 acres of land — I do not know how much. I do not 
 know of anybody farming there at all outside of the little Govern- 
 ment experiment farm, except one man, who put a crop on last year. 
 He could not get water and lost his crop. So he told me. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is very little actual farming being done on 
 the Blackfeet Eeservation. If this was the begmning of a new 
 project, Senator, I should not favor it, because the Blackfeet Ees- 
 ervation is, primarily, a grazing proposition, and it will be years 
 before it has been demonstrated it can be successfully farmed under 
 irrigation projects, in my judgment. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPELA.TION BILL. 145 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator White). You think it will be 
 beneficial to complete the work that has been begun to the extent 
 of $50,000— to use the $50,000 in the completion of the work « 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do you think the projects on the Blaclcfeet Res- 
 ervation, for instance, are constructed so that they will carry enough 
 water to cover the territoiy they are designed for? I heard some 
 question about that. Have you looked into it ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have not looked into that particular phase. 
 
 Senator Lane. Were you there last year? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. Were you down to Seville ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; I went through the irrigated part of the 
 reservation. 
 
 Senator Lane. Did you see anybody farming there outside of the 
 Government station ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I did not see but two or three farms irrigated. 
 
 Senator Lane. And one of those was the experimental farm, 
 was it ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; I was on that experimental farm. 
 
 Senator Lane. There has been a great deal of money. Senator 
 ■Myers, expended there in bringing water down from the mountains 
 to a tract of land that is irrigable, and which I think will be good land 
 after a while. But there is not an Indian on it, and no water in the 
 ditch. One man there who had farmed an Indian allotment said 
 that he put in a crop of oats and he could not get water; that they 
 would not turn it in for him. Did you hear that statement made ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I was told by a number of people who had attempted 
 to farm on that reservation heretofore that they had made a failure 
 of it and had gone broke, and that the only way to make a success 
 on that reservation was to raise cattle. 
 
 Senator Lane. Water was not furnished to this man, although he 
 lay under the ditch. He did not get it until July, and in that time he 
 lost his crop of oats. That has been very discouraging to the In- 
 dians. 
 
 Senator Myers. That is an administrative fault. 
 
 Senator Lane. It thoroughly discouraged the Indians. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That project has been constructed by the Eeclama- 
 tion Service. We simply appropriate the money. 
 
 Senator Lane. The superintendent told me that the ditch was not 
 more than half large enough. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have expended up to June 30, 1914, $830,321 on 
 this project. It is estimated that it will cost $3,000,000 to complete. 
 We are opposed to the further expenditure of Indian funds in begm- 
 ning the construction of new projects, and if this were an original 
 proposition I think the Indian Office would oppose the construction 
 of an irrigation project on that reservation. It has cost the Indians 
 $830,000. We simply want sufficient funds to complete the con- 
 struction work that nas already been begim. 
 
 Senator Walsh. The commission says something here that may be 
 in answer to Senator Lane's question. They say: 
 
 We believe that it is highly essential that the Indian retain possession of his irrigable 
 land and be permitted to lease if he so desires in order that the water r'ght to the land 
 may be perfected by beneficial use. 
 82833— VOL 1—15 10 
 
146 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 We do not believe that this locality will at any time in the f^^^^^f^*^;;^ ^e^^^^^^^ 
 tirPlv surcessful country for diversified farming, either dry land or imgatea, out it la 
 ouroVinionTatTany ordinary season a fairly good crop.ot hay may be giwn on 
 ?he SigaMe land covered by thi constructed and propose(f irrigation systems. 
 
 Senator Page. That is the one you appropriated $50,000 this year? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Then they say: 
 
 If the land on the east side of the reservation is thrown open to entry as provided 
 in the proposed amendment to bUl S. 5484, Sixty-third Congress second session, this 
 surplus'^^irngable land will be taken up by homesteaders. For this reason the future 
 Innual appropriation should be sufllcient to protect all water appropriations by 
 diligently prosecuting construction work so that beneficial use can be made on all 
 irrigable land on this reservation. , , , , • • t i. 
 
 This is an extremely important matter and should be borne m mmd when esti- 
 mates for future appropriation are being prepared for Congress. 
 
 Senator Lane. I was out there, Senator, just a short time after 
 you were there. I was told there would not be enough water come 
 through that ditch, no more than enough to supply those white 
 settlers; that it would have to be doubled m size before it could 
 do so. The farmer I speak about had raised potatoes and turnips, 
 and had made a fairly good stand of alfalfa. Farther up on the Two 
 Medicine project the Indians had lost their crops of hay. You were 
 out in that country, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I was out there in July. 
 
 Senator Lane. The frost had killed it. The farmers told me 
 that was their experience there nearly every year. They have lost 
 their crops entirely. The condition of the Indians has been so bad, 
 they are so poor, so much of their land and moneys have been obli- 
 gated to put in the construction of a large project which could not 
 well benefit them, that I do not like to see any money go out for it 
 at all. It seems to me hke it is a sort of a crime, and as though I 
 were a party to a wrongdoing. 
 
 ?*Ir. Meritt. This is simply for continuing this project and keeping 
 it in statu quo. 
 
 Senator Lane. If this amendment goes in, I should like to ask Mr. 
 Meritt and Senator Walsh, Does it open this for allotment practically ? 
 Does it amount to that in anyway ? By implication, can it be made 
 to ? I notice it says "that such settlers on the Blackfeet," etc. None 
 are allowed in there now to have allotments. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. It says that such settlers as locate on the Blackfeet 
 Keservation will have to pay certain charges. I wondered if there 
 was anything about that which would be practically the same thiag 
 as a grant to open that land. It reads: 
 
 That the sum of 850,000 be, and the same is hereby, appropriated out of any 
 money not otherwise appropriated for continuing construction of the irrigation sys- 
 tems on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Monta,na, which shall be immediately 
 available and remain available until expended: Provided, That the entryman upon 
 the surplus un?,llotted lands to be irrigated by such systems shall, in addition to 
 compliance with the homestead laws, before receiving patent for the lands covered 
 by his entry, pay the charges apportioned against such tract as herein authorized. 
 
 I wondered if that was the grant of a right. It seems to assume 
 that there are entrymen there now. There have been no entries made 
 by white settlers on the Blackfeet 1 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is this a recognition of a right of some one to enter 
 upon it with no further provision of law ? 
 
INDIAN" APPROPEIATION BILL. 147 
 
 ]\[r. Meritt. No ; that is not a recognition of a right. 
 
 Senator :\Iyei;s. I think clearly. Senator, there ^^-oiild have to be 
 an act of Congress. ^Vhen they did do it this would govern, but not 
 until then. 
 
 Senator Lane. It might act as an authority for the department 
 to go ahead and allow entrvnicn. Did you look at that, Senator 
 White « 
 
 The .VCTING CHAIEirAN. No. 
 
 Senator Lane. I did not know whether that did or not. You are 
 sure it does not ? 
 
 lh\ Meeitt. Yes, I am sure. I will say, Senator, that the act 
 of 1907 authorized the allotment of the Blackfeet Keservation, and 
 throwing open the surplus land. We think that act is an injustice 
 to the Blackfeet Indians. We have heretofore held up the approval 
 of the allotment schedules so that under that act we would not be 
 compelled to throw that reservation open. "We wiU not throw the 
 reservation open until we can get that legislation modified so as to 
 at least do the fair thing by those Blackfeet Indians. . 
 
 Senator Page. We have now been in session almost four hours, 
 and I am very much interested in this proposed project and plan. 
 I would hke to be present when it is considered, but I have my mail 
 to get off, and it seems to me that we have burdened ourselves with 
 aU we ought to do to-day on this. 
 
 Senator Myers. Before any action is taken about adjourning I 
 ask unanimous consent that when a\ e do convene again to-morrow 
 morning, at whatever hour it may be, we begin right where we have 
 left off on this amendment and dispose of it to-morrow morning. 
 That wLh give Senators overnight to look into it. Is there any 
 objection to that agreement ? 
 
 Senator Page. I do not think I vrtll object, but I dislike to give 
 unanimous consent to vote on it. 
 
 Senator Myers. Not that we wiU vote, but that we shall begin 
 considering it. 
 
 Senator Page. I move we adjourn until half past 10 to-morrow. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. For the benefit of the committee I wiU say that the 
 office will have present to-morrow Mr. Keed and Mr. Comior, of our 
 irrigation service, to answer any technical questions that may be 
 asked regarding features of this bill from an irrigation standpoint. 
 
 (The motion to adjourn was agreed to, and the committee, at 4.30 
 o'clock p. m., adjourned until to-morrow, Tuesday, January 19, 1915, 
 at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 TUESDAT. JANUARY 19, 1915. 
 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjourn- 
 ment. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Myers, Lane, Kobinson, 
 Thompson, Owen, White, Clapp, La FoUette, Page, Gronna, and 
 Townsend; also Senator Walsh and Mr. E. B. Meritt, Assistant 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 The committee resumed the consideration of the bill (H. E. 20150) 
 making appropriations for the current- and contingent expenses of 
 the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for fulfilling treaty stipulations with 
 various Indian tribes, and for other purposes, for the fiscal year 
 ending June 30, 1916. 
 
 BLACKFEET, FLATHEAD, AND FOKT PECK IRRIGATION PROJECTS. 
 
 The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 
 
 Senator MrERS. Mr. Chairman and Senators, I should like very 
 much to have action now, if it meets your approval, on the Meritt 
 amendment that was pending last evening, for the reason that it was 
 discussed thoroughly yesterday and we have had overnight to look 
 into it, and I have to appear this morning at 10.30 before the Com- 
 mittee on Claims on two bills that I have there. They will only be 
 sitting for a few minutes and if I do not get there right away I am 
 afraid I wUl not have any opportunity to appear before the com- 
 mittee. These bills have been pending a long time. I feel that I 
 have neglected them ; and can we not act on this amendment without 
 further delay? What do you think about it. Senator Page? Have 
 you looked it over ? 
 
 Senator Page. I have, just enough to see that I want to look it 
 over more. You remember that last year we went through and passed 
 on all these bills. They went through easily because there was a 
 clause attached that protected the Indian against the lapse of his 
 water rights. When we got it to the floor of the Senate those were 
 fought to the bitter extreme to throw them out. 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes ; that is true. 
 
 Senator Page. Now, the very thing that prompted me to vote you 
 a good, liberal sum last year was the fact that there was a protection 
 to the Indians. Now, this year I see we have aimed to protect the 
 Indian in this sentence : 
 
 Provided further. That the rights of the United States to water for Indian 
 lands shall be continued in full force and effect until the Indian title to such 
 
 land is extinguished. , ^- 
 
 149 
 
150 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 ^rhat assurance can I have from you and Brother Walsh that 
 you-or not you, but some of your friends there who are so tenacious 
 in^^egard to the rights of the State-will not insist that that go out 
 on a point of orderT or will not insist that it must be chang-ed ? 
 
 Sector SiYERS. Senator Walsh and I have both stated here m the 
 most solemn manner that we agreed to this amendment and have no 
 
 "^Senato/ploE. If they should throw that out on the floor of the 
 Senate, do you laiow it would change my whole attitude toward this 
 
 bill? ' . ■ . ^ A 9 
 
 Senator Lane. Is it subject to a point ot orders 
 
 Senator MraRS. I do not think it is subject to a point of order. 
 
 Senator Page. Wliat do you say, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think it is very important that we get ail ot this 
 legislation contained in our amendment. 
 
 Senator Myers. Senator Page, if Senator Walsh and I get up on 
 the floor of the Senate and assert in the most solemn manner that we 
 are for this amendment just as it is, I do not see how you could an- 
 ticipate that anybody else would get up and fight it. 
 
 Senator Page. That is true, but you laiow that Senator Sutherland, 
 who was probably the backer you had in your fight last year, and 
 Senator Smith, of Arizona, took the 
 
 Senator Myers. They were only aiding me because they were m 
 sympathy and I wanted their aid. 1 do not think if I had gone to 
 them and said, " I ask you not to do this," that they would have gone 
 contrary to my wishes. 
 
 Senator Page. I want to get a little further information on this. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is something I want to call your attention 
 to also. 
 
 Senator Page. One thing further. I would like to know, through 
 Mr. Meritt, just what we are doing. What is the method of book- 
 keeping here? Are we appropriating five hundred and some odd 
 thousand dollars that is not reimbursable? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are proposing to appropriate $500,000 for the 
 Flathead project, $50,000 for the_ Blackfeet, and $100,000 for the 
 Fort Peck project. That is all reimbursable and is made a lien on 
 the land irrigated. 
 
 Senator Page. Yes; I understand that. Now, here is $440,000, 
 $80,000, and $4,000 that is appropriated— $525,000 now. Is that 
 reimbursable, and if not reimbursable, can we state unqualifiedly that 
 it is provided for so that eventually it is repaid to the Federal 
 Government ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; that is not reimbursable in the regular reim- 
 bursable sense, because it is returning to the Indians money that has 
 been paid out of their tribal funds to reimburse the Government for 
 moneys advanced for the construction of this project, which will 
 hereafter be placed as a charge on the land irrigated. The entire 
 amount appropriated for these projects is reimbursable. 
 
 Senator Page. You did not get my sentence in full. It was, is it 
 reimbursable, or is it in some way — can you assure us — to come back 
 to the Federal Government, so that the Federal Government will sus- 
 tain no loss in this appropriation? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; that will come back to the Federal Treasury. 
 
 I ' __ ■ , -J ,^~ ;"■';_ ;- - ■- _ __ _ J&k.J 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 151 
 
 Senator Page. I was making the remark, Senator Walsh, in regard 
 to this bill, that I had given this amendment some study, had studied 
 it enough so that I wanted to study it more. The main point is this : 
 Here is a proviso which reads : 
 
 Provided further. That tlie rights of the United States to water for Indians' 
 lands shall be continued in full force and effect until the Indian title to 
 such lands is extinguished. 
 
 I said to Senator Myers that it seemed to me there should be some 
 assurance when we get on the floor of the Senate that that proviso 
 IS going to continue, that it is not going to be thrown out, and they 
 ask us to still proceed to appropriate this sum. I am ghid to vote 
 for this appropriation, provided this proviso will not either by you 
 or any of your friends be attacked on the floor of the Senate, and 
 finally perhaps be thrown out of the bill. But unless I am assured 
 of that, I do not want to vote for the appropriation now. 
 
 Senator Myers. I have said in the most solemn manner that I ac- 
 cept this amendment just as it is, and I certainly shall stand for it 
 on the floor of the Senate just as I do in this committee. 
 
 Senator Eobixsox. How much does this amendment carry? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. $1,275,187.93. 
 
 Senator Eobinsox. Is it necessary to appropriate all that now to 
 carry on the work? 
 
 Senator Walsh. That ought to be made clear. There is not any 
 such appropriation. There is $650,000 appropriated to carry on the 
 work. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. The total appropriation of the amendment is $1,275,- 
 187. 93. There is an appropriation of $525,187.93 reimbursing the 
 tribal funds of the Indians for money that has heretofore been taken 
 out of their funds in the Treasury. There is a total appropriation 
 of $650,000 for construction work carried in this amendment — 
 $500,000 for the Flathead, $50,000 for the Blackfeet, and $100,000 
 for the Fort Peck. 
 
 Senator Eobinsox. That is, out of the Treasury? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is out of the Treasury, and that is a reim- 
 bursable appropriation, and the land irrigated will be charged for 
 its pro rata share of the cost of construction. 
 
 Senator Eobinsox. Will it be returned, as a matter of fact? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I should like to hear from Senator Walsh on that. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Senator Page, I advised the committee yester- 
 day that I went over this amendment at the office of the Indian 
 Bureau. I went over it carefully. I, more than a year ago, expressed 
 my view that the principle of the amendment ought to be adopted. 
 I expressed that view before the committee here. I went over the 
 amendment, and it is entirely satisfactory to me. I am as desirous 
 that it should be enacted as you can be. 
 
 Senator Page. You feel certain, do you, Senator, that if you and 
 your colleague ecquiesce, that there will be no attack made upon this 
 proviso by Senator Sutherland or Senator Smith, and those who do 
 not approve of the principle? 
 
 Senator Walsh. I could not undertake to say. Senator Page, but 
 I should not imagine if it is satisfactory to us that you will find 
 sinf opposition from that quarter. 
 
152 INDIAN APPKOPKLA.TION BILL. 
 
 Senator Page. The strongest opposition we had last year came 
 from Senator Sutherland and Senator Smith of Arizona. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Will you kindly call my attention now to the par- 
 ticular clause you fear might be the subject of attack? 
 
 Senator Page. I will read it to you. It reads : 
 
 Provided further, That the rights of the United States to water for Indian 
 lands shall be continued in full force and effect until the Indian title to such 
 land is extinguished. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I do not very readily see why that clause should 
 be attacked by anybody. If it would be any sort of assurance to you, 
 Senator, I will do the best I can to sustain it. 
 
 Senator Page. You will remember that last year the department 
 recommended a proviso that was something like this, very much like 
 this, and we passed upon these appropriations with the understand- 
 ing, as I had it, that the Indians were protected by the proviso. 
 When that reached the Senate an attack all along the line was made — 
 not one man or two, but pretty much every Indian State attacked 
 that proviso. You will remember what the result was. I think we 
 did not get a result that was satisfactory to you. This, I hope, is 
 going to answer the same purpose, to protect the Indian until his 
 rights are extinguished. If it does, I am for the appropriation. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Of course I have not been able ever to make my 
 views about the matter very clear to you. Senator Page, but there is 
 nothing in the proviso that I attach any importance to at all. I do 
 not think that proviso is going to give the Indian any more rights 
 than he would nave without the proviso, or the United States any 
 more rights than it would have without the proviso. I will do the 
 best I can to sustain it, but I can see no reason why anybody should 
 object to it. 
 
 Senator Page. Then, if there is no protection in that clause, why 
 is it in there ? It seems to me it should not be put in and be designed 
 by the department to deceive us about this matter. I am sure that 
 that can not be so. Now, it is put in there with the expectation that 
 somebody is going to believe that the Indians' rights are better pro- 
 tected than they would be without that proviso. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Of course I can not say as to that, Senator. I 
 did not originate it. I do not know what view the gentlemen who 
 did originate it may take. If they feel that it is any further protec- 
 tion to the Indian's right to water, I am very glad he should have it. 
 
 Senator Page. Well, Mr. Meritt, that comes from your office. I 
 would like your explanation of it. 
 
 Mr. Mbkitt. You will note at the end of this legislation this lan- 
 guage : "All laws and parts of laws in conflict herewith are hereby 
 repealed." 
 
 _ There are certain provisions in laws heretofore enacted in connec- 
 tion with the irrigation projects on the Flathead, Blackfeet, and Fort 
 Peck that extend the water-right laws of the State of Montana to 
 those projects. We think that this language referred to by Senator 
 Page, which reads, " That the rights of the United States to water 
 for Indian lands shall be continued in full force and effect until the 
 Indian title to such land is extinguished," will enable us, in connec- 
 tion with the decision of the Supreme Court in what is known as the 
 Winters case, to protect the water rights of the Indians on those three 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 153 
 
 projects. I might say that the water-right question on these three 
 projects IS not as acute as on certain other projects in the Indian 
 ?u^''''^f '1°'' ^^Jf ""?? ^^""^ *^^''^ appears to be ample water now on 
 the Flathead, B ackfeet, and Fort Peck Reservations to irrigate 
 Indian lands, and this water-right question, I believe, will be amply 
 protected on these three reservations by legislation that we are now 
 attempting to procure. 
 
 • ^t.?''*2'ir^^TT^-®'''?°o ^^"^ ^^^'^ ^o* ^^y i<iea, have you, that the 
 rights o± the United States to water on the Indian lands, that it will 
 be continued without any provision of that kind in there* You do 
 not say in there that the United States still has rights, notwithstand- 
 ing the Indian fails to comply with the conditions of the contract 
 under which he accepts it? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We contend under the Winters decision that the In- 
 dians do have rights, but we wanted that contention and the decision 
 of the Supreme Court supplemented by a legislative expression by 
 the Congress. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What is the necessity for appropriating all 
 this money at once ? Do you expect to spend it all in the next year? 
 
 Mr. Mereitt. The engineers on this project claim that they could 
 expend economically a much larger amount than is here requested. 
 The engineers want a million dollars for the Flathead irrigation 
 project. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Eight away? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; for the next year's work. But it was real- 
 ized that a request of that kind would be entirely impracticable, and 
 the estimate was cut to $500,000. We are asking for a small appro- 
 priation on the Blackfeet Eeservation for the simple reason that we 
 do not want to spend much more money on that reservation for irri- 
 gation purposes. The project as outlined by the Eeclamation Service 
 wiU, if completed, cost a total of $3,000,000. There has already been 
 expended something over $800,000, and we are simply asking for 
 this appropriation of $50,000 to complete the project already con- 
 structed, and continue the situation there in statu quo. 
 
 Senator Lane. My attention has been called to the fact that on the 
 Blackfeet Eeservation there is a unit called Fisher's Flat irrigation 
 distributing projects 
 
 Senator Walsh. Senator Lane, before you go into that, will you 
 allow me to say a word further in answer to Senator Page's inquiry? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes. 
 
 Senator Walsh. The purpose of that provision. Senator Page, if I 
 can again attempt to address myself to you, is obviously to preserve 
 whatever advantage accrues to the Indians by virtue of the decision 
 in United States v. Winters. That decision assures the rights of the 
 Indians to the waters upon the reservation. The Flathead is open 
 and the Fort Peck is open, and it is intended by this provision, if I 
 appreciate its force, fully to preserve to the Indians the same rights 
 to the waters, notwithstanding the fact that the reservation is opened. 
 They are entitled to the water under the decision m the Winter case, 
 notwithstanding that they have made no appropriation of the water. 
 
 In that case the Milk Eiver was in question. It comes down from 
 Canada through a long stretch of country, and eventually forms the 
 northern boundary of the Fort Belknap Indian Reservation. 
 
154 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Throughout the upper courses of it various parties had cut out 
 ditches and had taken the water out of the river, so that eventually 
 when it reached the reservation there was not any water in the river. 
 And it was contended that the prior appropriators were entitled to 
 take the water out on its upper courses. The Supreme Court of the 
 United States held that they were not; that the Indians had the farst 
 right to that water, although they had made no appropriation of it. 
 So long as the reservation remains intact, you do not need any fur- 
 ther legislation about the matter, and it is the idea of the Indian 
 Service to keep the principle of that decision operative m favor of 
 the Indian allotments, even after the reservation is opened. That is 
 what that is intended for. . 
 
 My own judgment about it is that they do not n^ed the legislation 
 to accomplish that; that the principle of United States v. Winters 
 will be as applicable to the Indian lands after the reservation is 
 opened as it is before the reservation is opened. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you remember that on the floor of the Senate 
 the Winters decision v,'as attacked by several of the best lawyers, 
 including Senator Sutherland and Senator Smith of Arizona, as 
 being poor law? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Oh, well, of course that is academic. Whether it 
 is good or bad, it is the law. The Supreme Court of the United 
 States says so, and of what significance is it if it is attacked by some 
 lawyer on the floor ? My esteemed friend, Senator Shaf roth, is con- 
 tinually attacking upon the floor the proposition that the Govern- 
 ment of the United States can lease its lands. He continually insists 
 that it is a violation of the original compact between the States ; but 
 the Supreme Court of the United States has decided otherwise, so 
 what is the use of talking about it? 
 
 Senator Page. One more (luestion. I want to feel. Senator, that 
 when a man stands in the United States Senate with the burdens, the 
 great responsibility, of a Senator upon his shoulders, he is not going 
 to stand there and say anything but what he believes in regard to 
 any law. 
 
 Senator Walsh. There is no reason why a Senator should not 
 attack a decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that 
 does not meet his approval. He ought to do so. He ought to do so 
 quite fearlessly. But what difference does it make? 
 
 Senator Page. The difference is that if the law is good law it 
 protects the Indians fully. 
 
 Senator Walsh. It will be until you change that law. 
 
 Senator Page. The assumption has been that the rights of the 
 States step in and are higher than that decision. 
 
 Senator Walsh. That was the argument in the Supreme Court of 
 the United States by the counsel for Winters. I may say at the 
 same time, in further explanation, that I was not in that lawsuit, 
 but I was in the case of the Conrad Investment Co. v. United States, 
 which involved exactly the same principle on the southern boundary 
 of the Blackfeet Eeservation, at Birch Creek. We got as far as the 
 court of appeals with it. So I was myself on the other side of the 
 question. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. What effect do you think this proviso has, if 
 any? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 155 
 
 Senator Walsh. I think, Senator, it is a declaration by Congress 
 to the effect that the principle of Winters v. United States ought 
 to apply to the Indian lands— the Indian allotments— notwithstand- 
 ing that the reservation is opened. It is a declaration by Congress 
 to that effect. It now still remains. Take this case : Some one now 
 goes and appropriates the water under the provisions of the laws of 
 the State of Montana, and the Indian has not made an appropria- 
 tion, but the stream flows down through his land. The Government 
 of the United States brings an action eventually for the Indian, as the 
 guardian of the Indian, against John Jones to enjoin him from tak- 
 ing the water out of the stream through his ditch. Jones says, " I 
 have made an appropriation of this water prior to any appropriation 
 the Indian has made." The Government, on behalf of the Indian, 
 says that under the doctrine of Winters v. United States the Indian 
 is not obliged to make an appropriation. The water is first for his 
 use. It would then be a question for the Supreme Court of the 
 United States to say whether the doctrine of Winters v. United 
 States can or can not be extended to the lands of the Indians under 
 their allotments after the reservation is opened. And this is a dec- 
 laration by Congress to ^the effect that in their judgment the prin- 
 ciple ought to be extended to thosp lands. 
 
 Senator Page. And you sa}' so yourself, do you? 
 
 Senator YfALSH. I do. 
 
 Senator Towxsemd. This matter went out on a point of order last 
 year, did it not? 
 
 Senator Page. I think we had a good square vote on it, and we 
 defeated the proposition. Am I right about that, Senator Robinson? 
 
 Senator Robtn.so^-. AYe put an amendment in there. 
 
 Senator Towxsexd. We got an amendment that stood for some- 
 thing, but it went out on a point of order. 
 
 Senator Egbinsox. Then I prepared an amendment which was in 
 the nature of a limitation on the use of the appropriation designed 
 to accomplish the same end. That was carried in the Senate but 
 went out in conference. 
 
 Senator Towxsend. Do you think that this is subject to a point 
 
 of order ? 
 Se!iator Page. Do I think so? 
 
 Senator Townsexd. 1 es. ^ , . x j 
 
 Senator Page. I would rather think -not. Senator. As I under- 
 stand it, here is a supplemental estimate from the department, and 
 is not that a good foundation for a provision m this bill ( 
 Senator Lane. A supplemental estimate ? 
 
 Senator Page. Yes. ^ , .^ . j. t ,„. -;„=+ 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not know whether it is or not. I was ]ust 
 
 TeSpAGE. Do you regard this as a ^^Pl^^^^^^al f imate t^ 
 stands upon the same ground as the original estimate, Mr^Meritt? 
 
 Mr Meeitt. That is considered m law as a supplemental esti 
 male and has the same force and effect as the original estimate. 
 
 Senator Lane. The House did not put it^^ the bill? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; because it was submitted after the inman 
 
 biU passed the House. a ^-u^ ^^;^^9 
 
 Senator Lane. Then, could it come off the biU^ 
 
156 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I would not consider myself competent to pass on 
 
 * SenatoVwHiTE. The rule is that there shall be an estimate for it, 
 but the rule does not require it to be an origmal estimate. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Senator Walsh, may I ask you another ques- 
 tion? Is it your opinion, then, that this proviso is rather a declara- 
 tion of policy than a legislative provision? Is that your ideaj 
 
 Senator Walsh. It is my idea, Senator, that it is a legislative 
 declaration that could not possibly affect the case of one who has 
 already appropriated water. It could not operate to deprive him ot 
 anything. And, so far as the future is concerned, it depends upon 
 whether the water of the streams is subject to disposition by the acts 
 of Cono-ress, or whether it is subject to disposition under the State 
 law. My own idea about it is that it is, except so far as the principle 
 of Winters v. United States controls it, that the waters of our 
 streams are not open to disposition by the Congress of the United 
 States, but that the State has the sole authority to dispose of the 
 flowing waters in the stream. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You think, then, that the provision is largely 
 ineffective? What I am trying to get at is your view as to the effect 
 of that provision. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I think it is doing as much as Congress can pos- 
 sibly do to extend the principle of the Winters case to allotments 
 after an Indian reservation is opened. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You think the principle of the Winters case 
 does not apply 
 
 Senator Walsh. I think it does. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You think it does? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes. I have not a doubt- 
 
 Senator Robinson. Why does it not apply without action on the 
 part of Congress? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Simply because some gentlemen take a different 
 view about the matter than I do. There has been an idea prevailing 
 in the departments in recent years. Senator, and that is the idea that 
 has been combated upon the floor, as indicated by Senator Page. I 
 will give you my brief in the case which I argued in the Supreme 
 Court about three years ago, which discusses the matter at consider- 
 able length. 
 
 There are two theories about water in streams flowing over the 
 public domain. Here are public lands, and a stream is flowing over 
 those lands. There is a doctrine now prevailing in the departments 
 to the effect that the water flowing in those streams is a part of the 
 land through which it flows, and the Government of the United States 
 owning the land likewise owns the water which flows over that land, 
 and that therefore the Government of the United States has the right 
 to dispose of that water as it sees fit, just the same as it has the right 
 to dispose of the land as it sees fit. The doctrine is universally held 
 throughout the West, however, that the Government of the United 
 States does not own the water which flows in the streams, even though 
 those streams flow over the public lands. 
 
 [At this point a short recess was taken.] , 
 
 Senator Walsh. I was endeavoring to give you gentlemen an idea 
 about these conflicting claims to the water of streams flowing over 
 the public domain, the two theories, one being that the water belongs 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 157 
 
 to the Government of the United States and that it may dispose of 
 it as it sees fit, and the other that the Government of the United 
 States has absolutely nothing to do with the disposition of waters 
 m streams flowing through the public domain. In the brief to 
 which I referred I quote the following from the decision of Judge 
 Knowles of my State in the case of Hdwell v. Johnson, 89 Federal. 
 Judge Knowles was a very able jurist, a man of very great learning, 
 and of wide experience in connection with the laws affecting the dis- 
 position of public lands. He adopted the theory that the water 
 belongs to the General Government, and that it can dispose of the 
 waters of the streams as it sees fit. In the case I referred to he said : 
 
 It is urged that In some way the State of Montana has some right in these 
 waters in Sage Creek or some control o^■er the same. It never purchasetl them 
 It never owned them. * * - In that case ( St. Anthony Falls Water Power 
 Co. V. Board of Water Commissioners of St. Paul, 18 Sup. Ct, 157) it was not 
 held, nor was it held in any of the cases cited in the decision therein, that the 
 rights of the owner of the land through which any navigable stream flowed, 
 within the boundaries of any State, depended upon the laws of such State, or 
 that the said owners' right to such waters depended upon such laws, as against 
 one who claimed a right to the same under the laws of Congi-ess. To so hold 
 would uphold the view that a State might interfere with the primary disposal 
 of the land of the National Government. ^Vhen a party has obtained title to 
 property from the National Government, the State government has no right to 
 destroy that title, except under the power of eminent domain. The State of 
 Montana can not step in and say, " The right to the water of Sage Creek, which 
 the plaintiff acquired under the laws of Congress, you can not exercise in this 
 State. 
 
 And then he continues: 
 
 The National Government is the proprietor and owner of all the land in 
 Wyoming and Montana which it has not sold or granted to some one competent 
 to take and hold the same. Being the owner of these lands, it has the power 
 to sell or disiDose of any estate therein or any part thereof. The water in a 
 navigable stream flowing over the public domain is a part thereof, and the 
 National Government can sell or grant the same, or the use thereof, separate 
 from the rest of the estate, under such conditions as may seem to it proper. 
 
 That is a very lucid and concise statement of that doctrine that 
 it belongs to the General Government. If you care to have me 
 pursue this, and I think it would be enlightening 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you agree with the judge, Mr. Knowles? 
 
 Senator Walsh. No ; I do not. The argument of the brief is that 
 (hat contention is not sound. I want to state to you now from a 
 decision of the Supreme Court of the State of Wyoming the contrary 
 doctrine. I read from the case of Farm Investment Co. v. Car- 
 penter (61 Pac, 258), as follows: 
 
 At the outset, however, it is strenuously insisted that the declaration con- 
 tained in the constitution, that the waters of the natural streams, etc., are the 
 property of the State, is meaningless and of no force and effect. It is argued 
 that the State no more than an individual can acquire property by a mere 
 assertion of ownership, and that the United States, as the primary owner of 
 the soil, is also primarily possessed of title to the waters of the streams flow- 
 ing across the public lands. This contention demands more than a passmg 
 notice. * * * Under the doctrine of prior appropriation, it would seem 
 essential that the property in waters affected by that doctrine should reside 
 in the public, rather than constitute an incident to the ownership of the adja- 
 cent lands. Such waters are, we think, generally regarded as public m char- 
 acter. By the civil law the waters of all natural streams were public! juris and, 
 according to Bracton, that was the rule anciently in England. (Km. Irr., sec. 
 53; Gould Waters, sec. 6.) At the modern common law, public waters are 
 generally confined to those which are navigable, and public rights therein to 
 
;j^58 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 navigation and fishery, and privileges incident thereto. To the arid region ot 
 ?hls country another public use has been recognized by custom and laws and 
 sanctioned by the courts-a pnblc use sufficent to s^Port the exercse of the 
 power of eminent domain. (Irrigation Dis. v Bradley, 164 U. S., 112 160; 
 17 «?! n Ct 56 41 L Ed 369.) This use and the doctrine supporting it are 
 founded upon the necessities growing out of natural conditions, and are abso- 
 liitelv p-ential to the development of the material resources of the country. 
 M V other rule would offer an effectual obstacle to the settlement and growth 
 of this region, and render the lauds incapable of continued successful culti- 
 
 ^Vhe waters for the reclamation of the desert lands must be obtained, in a 
 verv lar^e measure, from the natural streams and other natural bodies of 
 water The common-law doctrine of riparian rights relating to the use of the 
 water of natural streams and other natural bodies of water not prevailing, 
 but the opposite thereof, and one inconsistent therewith having been affirmed 
 and asserted by custom, laws, and decisions of courts, and the rule adopted 
 permitting the acquisition of rights by appropriation, the waters affected 
 therebv become, perforce, publici juris. It Is therefore doubtful whether an 
 express constitutional or statutory declaration is required in the first place to 
 render them public. , In a country where doctrine of prior appropriation has 
 at all times been recognized and maintained, an expression by constitution or 
 statute that the waters subject to appropriation are public, or the property of 
 the public, would seem rather to declare and confirm a principle already ex- 
 isting than to announce a new one. But however this may be, we entertain 
 no doubt of the power of the people in their organic law, when existing vested 
 rights are not constitutionally interfered with, to declare the waters of all 
 natural streams and other natural bodies of water to be the property of the 
 public or of the State. Nor do we doubt that the legislature may make a lilie 
 declaration when in that particular unrestrained by the Constitution. If any 
 consent of the General Government was primarily requisite to the inception of 
 the rule of prior appropriation, that consent is to be found in several enact- 
 ments by Congress, beginning with the act of July 26, 1866, and including the , 
 desert-land act of March 3, 1877. 
 
 I read this to you because the learned judges make a more definite 
 statement of the contentions tlian I certainly could myself. I 
 thought the Supreme Court would be forced to decide the matter 
 in this case, but they did not. And so it is left to-day an undeter- 
 mined question as to whether the ownership of the waters in a 
 stream flowing over the public land belongs to the General Govern- 
 ment or belongs to the State. The theory obtains in the executive 
 departments in accordance with the rules laid down by Judge 
 I-Cnowles, that they belong to the General Government, and that the 
 General Government can dispose of these waters in any way it sees 
 fit. We all deny that in the West. 
 
 This act, upon that theory, declares that the rights of the United 
 States to the waters shall continue vmtil the Indian title is disposed 
 of. If, however, the United States has no rights in these waters, 
 and it so eventually be determined by the Supreme Court of the 
 United States, as a matter of course that declaration there would 
 amount to nothing. And that is what I mean when I say that in 
 my estimation it does not add to or detract from the right of the 
 Indian. But I was going to say that, notwithstanding that, the 
 Supreme Court of the United States has held, in the Winters case, 
 that the Indians, by virtue of the treaty, own the v.'aters of the 
 streams flowing down through them, or at least that they have a 
 priority of right to the use of the waters of the streams flowing 
 through the reservation, and that without the necessity of making 
 an appropriation at all. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. If you will pardon me just a moment, I think 
 the fundamental doctrine of the Winters case is that at least under 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. I59, 
 
 the conditions which existed in that case the Government was the 
 owner ot those waters, because its theory is that when the Govern- 
 ment sets aside lands as a reservation for Indians to be used for 
 agncultural purposes, it also sets aside a sufficient amount of water 
 to enable the Indians to cany out the purposes for ^^hich the reser- 
 vation was reserved to them. When it does that, if it sets aside water 
 it must be upon the theory that the Go\ernment owns or controls 
 the water. Otherwise, how could it set it aside? It is true that it 
 is also based on the particular circumstances under which the reser- 
 vation IS created, and they might not be analogous to the circum- 
 stances under which the Blackfeet Reservation was created. But 
 where the Government sets aside a reservation for Indians for ao-ri- 
 cultural purposes, the doctrine in the Winters case, as I understand 
 it, IS that the Government would not do a useless thing, it would 
 not do an unreasonable thing, and it implies a reserve for the use 
 and benefit of the Indians, and a sufficient amount of water to en- 
 able them to cultivate their land properly. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Let me show you the distinction there. All that 
 was done, you will understand, when the State of Montana was a 
 Territory. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I did say that the particular condition that 
 existed when that reservation was set aside might not have been 
 analogous to the conditions that existed as to other reservations. 
 
 Senator Walsh. At that time Congress was our legislative body. 
 
 Senator Robinson. In other words, the Winters case of necessity 
 would apply to every Indian reservation? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Xo; it would not; but those treaties are prac- 
 tically the same, and the same act, you will understand, that set 
 aside the Fort Belknap Reservation set aside the Blackfeet, because 
 the whole northern part of our State was at one time one reservation. 
 In 1887 it was all thrown open to settlement except these three areas. 
 Fort Peck, Fort Belknap, and the Blackfeet, and by one act, so that 
 the same rules that apply to the Fort Peck apply to the Blackfeet. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are you personally familiar with the condi- 
 tions surrounding this irrigation project, Senator? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You have been over it and know about it? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you regard this as an expenditure in the 
 interest of the Indians and their lands, or is it an expenditure in the 
 interest of the land which has already passed to white ownership ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Here is the situation : The Indian lands are irri- 
 gated. They have got to be irrigated in order to have these Indians 
 self-supporting at all. When you go to carry out an irrigation sys- 
 tem, as I explained yesterday, with one Indian owning 160 acres of 
 land and a Avhite man, a settler, owning the adjacent 160 acres of 
 land, and then an Indian owning another 160 acres of land, mani- 
 festly it is idle to put in an irrigation system, costing $5,000,000 to 
 irrigate only the land of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is clear, but is that an apt illustration as 
 to conditions on this reservation ? Is it not the fact that a large part 
 of the lands that are to be irrigated are in private ownership i 
 
 Senator Walsh. I will give you the exact figures about the matter, 
 Senator. 
 
160 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you mean that alternate sections or quar- 
 ter sections have passed into the ownership of white persons, and 
 the others are in the Indians ; or is it true that as to a large part of 
 the area the Indian's title has been totally extinguished ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. The Indian allotments are interspersed all 
 through the reservation. It is true that the Indian allotments are 
 to a large extent concentrated within certain restricted areas. They 
 had the first choice, and they picked out the best lands; and it is 
 usually the case that the best lands are in spots, so they have picked 
 out their allotments in those spots. Frequently they make quite a 
 solid body ; then, again, they will be interspersed. 
 
 Likewise it is true that in some localities, we will say along the Little _ 
 Bitter Eoot, I think, which is another stream, there are practically' 
 no Indian allotments at all. Reference is made to that in the report 
 to which I referred yesterday. But you will bear in mind. Senator 
 Robinson, that those people were invited to go upon that reservation 
 and take these lands, because they were under the irrigation project. 
 They acquired a value because they were under the contemplated 
 project. They paid their money which has gone into the tribal fund. 
 That is going to be utilized eventually to make up the amount which 
 is to be paid 
 
 Senator Robinson. Right there, let me ask you. You say they 
 have paid their money. What do you mean by that ? What money 
 did they pay ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. The lands, you understand. Senator, were ap- 
 praised. 
 
 Senator Robinson. At what? AVhat did they pay for the lands? 
 
 Senator Walsh. They run from $2.50 to $7 an acre. Whereas the 
 homesteader had a right to go out on the public domain and take 
 land anywhere without paying a dollar for it. They went upon 
 the Indian reservation and complied with all the requirements of 
 the homestead law and paid this additional amount, which has 
 gone in. 
 
 Senator Myers. Somewhere subsequently appraised at as high 
 as $30 an acre. 
 
 Senator Walsh. When those people have gone on there and have 
 taken the land and have paid their money for it, which has gone to 
 the Indians, on the representation that it was going to be irigated, J 
 submit to you that if there were not any Indian allotments to be irri- 
 gated that the faith of the United States is pledged to those people to 
 complete that irrigation project with reasonable diligence and dis- 
 patch. They have paid their money in consideration of it. If it 
 were true that every dollar of this $500,000 which you are asked to 
 appropriate in this connection was going to be used for the exten- 
 sion of this system to irrigate the lands of white settlers alone, in 
 honor and honesty 
 
 Senator Robinson. You would not put it in this bill. You would 
 embrace it in the bill for the reclamation work. 
 
 Senator Walsh. True; but let me say that this is all one system, 
 and you can not possibly segregate it, you know. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the area of Indian lands actually cul- 
 tivated on the Blackfeet, Mr. Meritt? 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 161 
 
 Mr. Meritt. On the Blackfeet there are practically no lands be- 
 ing cultivated under the irrigation project. There are about 5,000 
 acres, 1 think, under the Flathead project. 
 
 Senator Robinsox. Indian lands? 
 _ Mr. Meiutt. Under the Flathead irrigation project the present 
 irrigable area is 38,000 acres. Irrigated area, 3,366 acres : area under 
 completed project, 152,000 acres; cultivated bv Indians, 1,088 acres- 
 
 f^]^!.'^''^^ ^^' ""'^'^"^^ ^'^'? '''='^^^- ^''1^^« o* irrigated land per acre! 
 $100. Ihose are approximate figures. 
 
 Senator EoBI^^soN. What are the assessments ior benefits to the 
 land there '. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is estimated that it Avill cost about $40 per acre 
 
 Senator EoBix SON. They paid from $-2 to $7, I believe the Senator 
 said, tor land? 
 
 j\Ir. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Eobixsox. What is it costing the Indians per acre to con- 
 struct that? 
 
 Mr. Merii-t. About $40 per acre for the irrigation project. Sena- 
 tor, I should like to call your attention to the fact that under this 
 legislation, if it is enacted, the Indian will no longer have to bear 
 the burden of the cost of irrigating the lands that have been taken up 
 by white people. 
 
 Senator Walsh. That is scarcely an accurate statement, because 
 he never did have to. 
 
 Senator Eobixsox. Oh, yes; he did. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I beg your pardon. Let us get that clear. It 
 would be well to get this matter straight to start out with. Under 
 every act it was provided that the white settlers should bear their due 
 and just proportion of the cost of the work. So that if it cost $40 
 an acre, and a white settler taking unallotted land to the extent of 
 40 acres or 60 acres or 80 acres was obliged to pay $40 an acre for 
 every acre of his land 
 
 Senator Eobinsox. Yes; but wait just a moment. I suppose what 
 Mr. Meritt meant, and certainly what I meant, when he said that 
 the Indians bore the expense, was that they financed the proposition. 
 You do not question that? All of the funds to finance this project 
 are Indian funds, and they are intended to be reimbursed. If the 
 project proves a success and the estimate of $40 an acre, or whatevei' 
 it is, as an assessment for benefits is an accurate one, in the end the 
 Indian will lose nothing. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Senator Eobinson, I am not able to accept that 
 theory. (Congress made each of these appropriations, not out of 
 Indian funds; Congress made each of these appropriations out of 
 tJie General Treasury. 
 
 Senator Page. Eeimbursable. 
 
 Senator Walsh. It made this appropriation out of the General 
 Treasury, reimbursable — reimbursable this way: That the Indian 
 lands, the portion chargeable to the Indian lands, should be reim- 
 bursable out of Indian funds. The portion chargeable to the white 
 settlers' lands, the unallotted lands, was reimbursable by the set- 
 tlers. Now, do not forget that, please. And the only wrong about 
 til? thing, the only error of it, was that the Indians' proportion wn.s 
 
 52833— VOL 1—15 11 
 
162 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 tf.l<eii generally out of the Indians' funds, while a good ran.iy of the 
 Lirlians did not select their lands under the ditch at all. The>' took 
 their lands in distant places above the ditch — a great many of them 
 did— and it was wrong to take out of the general Indian Timd to 
 Minvh those people were entitled to their distributive '5hare any 
 money to pay the proportion of this that belonged to the Indians 
 under the ditch, in which they had no direct interest at all. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think so. 
 
 Senator Walsh. And you are correcting this. I am not responsi- 
 ble for this legislation as passed, but I do not like to stand up here, 
 or anywhere else, and hear the imputation made against the gentle- 
 men who were responsible for this legislation that this thing was 
 financed by the Indians' funds in the interest of the white settlers. 
 
 Senator Page. Does not every appropriation say "reimburs- 
 able " ^ That has been so with every appropriation we have made in 
 the last six years that I have been here. I think, without a single 
 exception, on all these projects it is made reimbursable. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Of course it is reimbursable. The part belonging 
 to the Indian lands is reimbursable out of the Indian fund, and the 
 part assignable to the white man's lands is reimbursable by the white 
 man, and it is expressly provided how the white man shall reimburse 
 the Government for the amount. When it says " reimbursable " do 
 you mean to have us understand that the white men are to get these 
 irrigated lands without paiying a dollar for them? 
 
 Senator Page. No; but I did have the impression that the Indian 
 funds were either taken or the Indian lands holden for these appro- 
 priations, so that the Federal Government was certain to get its 
 money back. 
 
 Senator Walsh. They were holden in just the manner that I 
 have indicated. Every dollar that was realized from the sale of 
 these lands to the whites — every dollar that was realized from the 
 sale of any timber on the lands — was applied to this. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Senator Walsh, this is not a proceeding under 
 the general reclamation law to irrigate lands generally. It is a 
 proceeding presumably for the Indians and for the Indian lands. 
 Otherwise the proceeding would be different. But I do not think 
 you have any right to resent the statement, in view of the informa- 
 tion which has come to me in the course of investigations that I have 
 made that a large number of these appropriations and a large num- 
 ber of these enterprises have not redounded to the benefit of the 
 Indian or the Indian lands, but have redounded to the benefit of the 
 white men, who have been more prompt to enable themselves of the 
 benefits under the law. 
 
 Mr. Meritt, have any of these allotments been confirmed or ap- 
 proved ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. On the Flathead Reservation? 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How many ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. About 2,000 Indians have been allotted on that reser- 
 vation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I know, but have they all been approved or 
 confirmed, so as to give them title? 
 
INDIAN. APPEOPEIATIOK BILL. 163 
 
 Mr. MERiT-r. They all have been approved. They have trust 
 patents to their lands. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. How about the Blackfeet? 
 
 Mr. Merit!'. The Indians on that reservation have been allotted, 
 but the allotments have not yet been approved, because the act of 
 1907 authorizes us to open the reservation immediately after the ap- 
 proval of the allotment schedule, and because of vrhat we recognize to 
 be the unjustness of that act so far as the interests of the Blackfeet 
 Indians are concerned, we have up to this time not approved the 
 allotment schedule. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. They do not get any title until their allot- 
 ments are confirmed, do they? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Only a tribal ownership. 
 
 Senator Myers. I want to bring this out about the Flathead Reser- 
 vation. You read figures there a while ago to show that there is 
 about twice as much land under irrigation now which is cultivated 
 by whites as Indians. Yet, as a matter of fact, the figures show, 
 do they not — that has been my impression — ^that there has been more 
 water put on the Indian land than on the white land up to date, and 
 the reason that there is not as much Indian land cultivated is that the 
 Indians do not cultivate it. Has there not been more water put on 
 the Indian land than the white tracts up to date ? 
 
 Mr. Meritf. There has been more Indian land irrigated than 
 white land. 
 
 Senator Myers. More land irrigated up to date, and the only 
 reason it does not show more Indian land cultivated is that the 
 Indians do not cultivate their lands as much as the whites. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is estimated that when the project is completed 
 it wiU irrigate approximately 75,000 acres of Indian land and 75,000 
 acres of white land. 
 
 Senator Myers. Half and half. Another thing: I understood 
 you to say awhile ago— and I wanted you to bring it out and make 
 It clear— that you are satisfied from your investigations that there 
 is plenty of water available to irrigate the land of all on that reser- 
 vation, are you? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is my impression. , j. , 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What reservation are you talking about « 
 
 Senator Myers. The Flathead Eeservation. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That is not true of Blackfeet, is it ^ 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have not up to the present time experienced 
 any difficulties regarding any water right on the Blackfeet Keserva- 
 
 '"Senator Robinson. What do the engineers say regarding the water 
 supply as being sufficient or insufficient to supply the entire project < 
 
 Do you know about that? . a- ■ 4. + •„ ^i^i^f 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have at the present time sufficient water m sight 
 
 to irrigate the entire project. . ••„„„„!« 
 
 Senator Eobinson. There is no danger, th^n ^n your op nion or m 
 the opinion of those who have investigated it, that if the Indians 
 are slow about appropriating the water as they always aie that in 
 the end thev will get no water under the Proi^ct because of the m- 
 sufRciencv of the Inpplv? mat do you say about that, Senator 
 
]64 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Walsh? You are familiar with it. Do you know whether the sup- 
 ply is sufficient for both? 
 
 Senator ^Yalsh. Which reservation are you speaking about ^ 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The Blackfeet now. 
 
 Senator Y'alsh. I may speak upon that only upon the assurance 
 that was given me by the engineers of the Reclamation Service. 
 They say that there is. Of course, they would not undertake it, they 
 would lay out the project as a matter of course unless they were 
 fully satisfied that the supply of water is adequate. I have no better 
 means of information, as a matter of course, than is thus afforded. 
 I myself entertain no doubt at all that there is an abundance of 
 water there. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. If I understand you, you are m sympathy with 
 the proposition to assess the charges, as far as the benefit to the 
 Indian lands is concerned, against the lands which are actually 
 benefited ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. And you concede it is unfair to makean In- 
 dian pay a part of this charge when his lands can not be irrigated? 
 
 Senator Walsh. I do not concede it. I assert it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is what I mean. 
 
 Senator Walsh. And I might say here, Mr. Chairman 
 
 Senator Robinson. Under the present system I think practically 
 all of those projects have proceeded that way, heretofore, that re- 
 sources of the whole tribe have been held for the improvement when 
 only a few of the allotments, or a certain number of the allotments, 
 have been irrigated. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Not a few. I should say in the case of the Flat- 
 head that the greater number of the allotments are under the ditch. 
 
 Senator Robinson. In some instances that have been called to 
 my attention perhaps the word " few " would not fit. 
 
 Senator Walsh. There are, however, many allotments above, and 
 it is unfair and unjust to those Indians that they should be charged. 
 
 I want to say that I regret very much I was betrayed into any 
 exhibition of feeling about this matter at all, and I apologize so far 
 as is necessary, but I feel that members of the committee who are 
 thus impressed ought to get rid of the idea, because there is nothing 
 in the law that will justify it, that this project, a large measure of 
 the benefits of which, are, as a matter of course, to come to the white 
 settlers, was financed by the Indian funds in their interest. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, you remarked a few moments ago that you 
 believed the law in the Winters case is good, did you not? 
 
 Senator Walsh. No ; I remarked that I believed the principle was 
 equally applicable .to Indian lands held under allotment after a reser- 
 vatiort is opened as well as while it remained intact. 
 
 Senator Page. You do not, then, assert that in your judgment that 
 law will be finally sustained when it reaches the Supreme Court ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. What law ? 
 
 Senator Page. The Winters decision. 
 
 Senator Walsh. It has already reached that court. It is a decision 
 of the Supreme Court. 
 
 Senator Page. Very well, then. What I wanted to get at is this: 
 You say that where a prior appropriation has been made you think 
 the white man will hold, despite the Winters decision ? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 165 
 
 Senator Walsh. No; I do not think anything of the kind, Senator. 
 
 The Chairman. He has not asserted that. 
 
 Senator Walsh. My idea about it is that the Supreme Court of the 
 United States is the final tribunal. I do not know where else you 
 would go to get a determination of law, and the Supreme Court has 
 determined that that is the law. 
 
 Senator Page. I know ; but that has been questioned in some strong 
 arguments made on the fioor of the Senate. 
 
 Senator Walsh. You are old enough. Senator, to recognize and 
 recall that the Dred Scott decision was violently attacked ; you will 
 recall that the Supreme Court in affirming the constitutionality of 
 the national-bank act was very violently attacked; and you will recall 
 that various decisions of the Supreme Court on various subjects 
 withui the last five years have been \ery violently attacked. But we 
 have got to take them as the law. They are the law. 
 
 Senator Page. But you do not say in your opinion that law will 
 not eventually be overturned, set aside, or reversed ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. I should be hopeless about presenting the matter 
 to the Supreme Court of the United States. 
 
 Senator Page. I asked you, do you regard that as good law, and 
 you say, "No; I do not say that I do." 
 
 Senator Walsh. I was on the other side of the question, and I 
 was not even convinced when the Supreme Court of the United States 
 said that. But I am obliged to acquiesce in it. 
 
 Senator Page. How I want to apply that is this : I understand that 
 on these reservations there is above the reservation a dam that has 
 been erected, and that the water has been taken from that dam and 
 diverted so that it passes around and does not go through these reser- 
 vations. 
 
 Senator Walsh. There are manj" of them, Senator. 
 
 Senator Page. Suppose the amount that is taken by these dams is 
 sufficient to absorb all the \\ ater, how can the Winters case apply ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. That is just what the AVinters case was, as I 
 tried to explain to you. I can explain it on the map here. Here 
 [indicating] is the Fort Belknap, with the Milk River forming the 
 northern boundary of it. The Milk Eiver has its source in the 
 Glacier National Park, which runs, as you see, up into Canada here 
 [indicating], takes its course through the Province of Alberta, and 
 eventually comes back into our State here [indicating]. From here 
 [indicating] down to Fort Belknap Indian Reservation, a distance 
 of 200 or 250 miles, is elegant agricultural land, most of it semi- 
 arid. In recent years they have been cultivating very extensively 
 there by the dry-farming system. But throughout that entire course 
 down there ditches were taken out of the Milk River for the irriga- 
 tion of lands, particularly between Havre and the Fort Belknap 
 Indian Reservation. I think probably there are 20 of those ditches 
 taken out of that river, so that when the Milk River m the low sea- 
 son of water, when you get down to the Indian reservations, these 
 ditches have taken ail that water out and there is not water for the 
 Indians. The Government of the United States started this suit, 
 United States against Winters, to enjoin these people here [indicat- 
 ing] from taking the water out of the ri^•er through their ditches, 
 and the Supreme Court of the United States affirmed the judgment, 
 granting that injunction, so that all of these people were commanded 
 
IQQ INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 to desist from taking an.x' water out of tliat stream, fo tliat there 
 should not remain 5,000 inches of water when it reached the Fort 
 BellmaiD Indian Keservation. The doctrine was asserted that by 
 virtue of the treaty these Indians had the right to the use of that 
 stream, notwithstanding the fact that they had made no appropria- 
 tion of it, and notwithstanding the fact that these appropriations 
 
 "W6rG G3.rlicr. 
 
 Senator Page. That is a decision, I understand, which all the 
 Mountain States are opposed to. -,■-,, 
 
 Senator Walsh. They think the Supreme Court did not decide the 
 case correctly. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do they get water there now '. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Of course I can not say. Senator, you know 
 enough about the water-right business to know if a man should 
 take that water out of there in violation of an order of the court he 
 would lay himself liable to contempt of court. And if the fact is as 
 you say, all the representatives of the United States have to do is to 
 step into the United States court and get an order to arrest those 
 people, and they Avill be punished for contempt of court. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I know the Secretary of the Interior, in trans- 
 mitting this estimate, suggested that the Montana project be em- 
 braced in the sundry civil appropriation bill. 
 
 Senator Mteks. I want to say about that, that that report was 
 prepared and sent to the House before our Montana delegation had 
 a meeting with the Secretary of the Interior, Mr. Sells, and Mr. Mer- 
 itt, -which I detailed yesterday at some length. I had to leave the 
 meeting before it was over, and got my information -from Senator 
 Walsh about what occurred. Mr. Meritt and Senator Walsh were 
 both there. It is my understanding that at that meeting, occur- 
 ring later, it was fully discussed and it was agreed that it was better 
 for this new legislation and appropriation to go on the Indian bill, 
 and it was agreed that the Secretary of the Interior and the Indian 
 Bureau would so recommend. Am I correct. Senator Walsh? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes. 
 
 Senator Mtees. Am I correct, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Myers. So that that conclusion at a solemn meeting of our 
 delegation with the Secretary of the Interior, Commissioner Sells, 
 and Mr. Meritt was arrived at subsequently to the making out of 
 this report. 
 
 Senator Walsh. If you will pardon me, I will tell you why that is 
 so. It was assumed, and undoubtedly correctly, that you gentlemen 
 had heard something about this matter before; that you were very 
 much better equipped to deal with the question than any. general 
 appropriation committee to which the sundry civil bill would go. 
 They would have to start from the ground up on this proposition. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The estimate appears under date of January 7. 
 I do not know how that would affect the matter on the question of a 
 point of order. 
 
 Senator Mtees. Our meeting was after the 7th of January. While 
 there is no written communication here altering that recommenda- 
 tion, yet Mr. Meritt is here as the representative of the Indian 
 Bureau and the Interior Department to recommend on behalf of the 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Ig7 
 
 department and the bureau that this appropriation and this legisla- 
 tion go on this bill, which he has done in person 
 
 The Chairman Is there any objection to the item going on the 
 appropriation bill ? fi^^^^K "u wie 
 
 Senator Lane There is this matter that I wanted to find out about. 
 That IS about the Conrad Canal. There seems to be a canal and a 
 dam across the Birch Creek which diverts the water to the use of 
 the Conrad Investment Co. They say the water from that creek 
 would cover a large number of allotments for Indian lands on the 
 reservation, which allotments have not vet been approved, for 
 due and proper reasons. I think that is "all right. The Indians 
 
 •/''^ ""u-i^'l *° '* ^^ ^^^- ^"^^ ^^^* position they will be in 
 It this bill becomes a law I am in much doubt about'. There will 
 come before Congress this session a certain water power bill making 
 disposition of water powers throughout the country, which will give 
 title, if It passes, to persons occupying power sites to the lands on 
 which the sites rest, which will absolutely control them. I am at a 
 loss to know what position we are going to occupy, or what is going 
 to become of these Indians. As it is now the Indians are having a 
 hard time. They are not using any water at all on the Blackfeet 
 Keservation, for several reasons. One is that they have no imple- 
 ments or tools with which to farm the lands. The department has 
 not been able so far to furnish tools to them. 
 
 The Indians on the Blackfeet Reser\'ation, the majority of the 
 poorer full-blood Indians, live back next to the mountains on creeks 
 and streams that come out of the Rocky Mountain Range. Thev 
 are awfully poor. They are in a state of abject poverty. Some of 
 them with not enough clothing and with not enough to eat. They 
 have eaten the prairie dogs, as there is no game in the country. It 
 is a grass land. The whole reservation is good for grazing purposes. 
 If properly handled there is no doubt but what the Indians would 
 succeed at that. 
 
 As to farming, I think they know nothing about it whatever. 
 Upon those high lands where these poor Indians are there are late 
 frosts in the spring and early ones-in the fall, to such an extent that 
 they are not able to raise crops. I saw a number of fields where thoir 
 oats had frosted down. I was in a large number of cabins where they 
 had absolutely nothing. We passed an item here yesterday to in- 
 crease their appropriation in order to feed them. I brought in a 
 sample of their daily ration of beans, for instance, which consists of, 
 by count, I think, something like 47 little white navy beans, 2^ pounds 
 of beef a week, one-fourth, or 30 per cent, of which is bone. That is the 
 condition they are in. I saw a child with no clothes on except a sack 
 coat, and it had not been buttoned in front, and its little body was 
 bare from its chin to its toes. Its feet were bare with an encrustation 
 of dirt on the skin. There were eight in the family living in that 
 shack. I had a picture of it here yesterdaj'. It was the most piti- 
 able condition of affairs. Those Indians who live up near the moun- 
 tains are 25 miles away from the nearest large open-tract irrigation 
 scheme down at the Seville unit, as it is called. They ha^ e no means 
 of going down there and tilling those lands. They have no means of 
 building houses with. 
 
IQ^ INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 They Avould be out on the wind-swept barren plain, upon the best . 
 lands, to be sure, but with no means of doing anything with them. 
 They selected the homesteads and allotments where they are now tor 
 the reason that they were nearer the timber, and tor the reason that 
 the old angency was located at one time up in that district. The 
 Government moved the agencv, but the Indians could not move their 
 old houses, and they remained behind. They had been left back m 
 the progress of civilization. A railroad came through there, and the 
 Government moved its agency down to, nearer, I presume, the means 
 of transportation, and the Indians were left back m this country 
 
 marooned. xi ■ • • x- 
 
 It is not likely that they will get much beneht from this irrigation 
 scheme unless a very careful work is done by the department, a very 
 intelligent work, of high-class farming, and with a single-hearted 
 effort to get those Indians down there. These poor fellows have 
 taken their little allotments up in there, and they are doomed to 
 starvation if we do not help them in every way. If Ave are passing a 
 measure here that will circumscribe their rights, or will confirm the 
 title of others more wise than they, who have selected points of van- 
 tage to control that flow of water, and the Indians get no title to the 
 water rights, we are doing a bad thing the day we pass this. I am 
 willing to pass appropriations here in a proper amount to equip 
 those Indians right, because they are a good lot of people; they are 
 a lot of kindly people who would do well if they were handled right. 
 But I will not vote for anything that I have any question about. If 
 T have any doubt or question that it is going to infringe upon their 
 lights I would dislike to see it go through. This bill ought to be 
 gone into thoroughly and fought out on its merits. We have trouble 
 enough with this Indian bill. I wish you gentleman would take 
 about 24 hours and go into it carefully before you vote on this 
 measure. 
 
 Senator Groxxa. Would not this appropriation be some help to 
 the Indians? 
 
 Senator Lane. I have an idea that it would not be worth one- 
 quarter of a cent within any immediate period. It may later along. 
 I am willing to concede that it may be the better thing for them at 
 the ultimate end. But, so far as it is concerned now, it will not do 
 them a dollar's worth of good, for the reason that there are practi- 
 cally no Indians there that are using it, and I suppose that there 
 are very few_ who can use their allotments for the reason that they 
 have nothing to do it with. 
 
 Senator Mteks. Senator Lane said something to the effect that 
 the water-power bill which has been reported out might have on 
 these Indians. I just merely want to make some reply to that sug- 
 gestion, because I happen to be chairman of the committee which 
 reported out that bill. There is nothing in the water-power bill, 
 even if it should be enacted into law, which could possibly conflict 
 with the rights of these Indians on this reservation to any water to 
 which they are entitled. There can be no conflict Avhatever. That 
 Avater-power bill does not in any wise nor in the remotest degree 
 undertake to regulate the use of water in flowing streams. It leaves 
 that to the States. That bill recognizes clearly that the Govern- 
 menL, in so far as the provisions of that bill are concei-ned, only 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 169 
 
 seeks to regulate the right to the use and occupancy of Govern- 
 ment land adjacent to the streams and recognizes the principle that 
 the btates will have the right to regulate the use of water flowing 
 in those streams within their borders. It recognizes that in order- 
 to develop power there must be a joint user of the water and the 
 land. It IS drawn on this theory : That the Government controls the 
 use and occupancy of the Go\ einment land adjoining the streams, 
 and that the btate controls the use and regulation of the waters flow- 
 ing in those streams, and that the two must be used jointly in order to 
 develop Avater power. And the bill expressly states t'hat no man 
 shall have a permit, that no applicant shall have a permit, from the 
 Secretary of the Interior to develop water power or put in a dam 
 or put up facilities for developing water power until he shall have 
 first acquired and shall show a right to the use of sufficient water 
 from the State authorities. 
 
 He must acquire the use of the water which the bill recognizes as 
 controlling, and a State is not going to grant the use of the water 
 to some new applicant when some other person has the prior right 
 to the use of the water as an acquired right ; the State is not going 
 to grant a water right to some subsequent applicant in contraven- 
 tion of a prior right, whether it belongs to the Indians or anybody 
 else. The Conrad case, as I understand, if it is to be accepted, as 
 far as it goes, provides that in these Indian reservations which were 
 created before the Territories became States that sufficient water for 
 the irrigation of the Indian lands is reserved to the Indians; and 
 this bill, so far as it is in the power of Congress to do so, makes that 
 applicable to the land of this particular reservation, if it were not 
 already, so far as in the power of Congress it can be ; and that prin- 
 ciple perpetuates, establishes, and ratifies it, so that the Blackfeet 
 Indians, in the Winters case and under this bill, had a right to suffi- 
 cient water for the irrigation of their lands, and no water-power 
 bill, even if it tried to do so, could take it away from them. But 
 the water-power bill steers clear of everything of that kind. It does 
 not undertake to interfere with the water rights in any way what- 
 ever. * 
 
 Senator Kobinson was on the commission with me. He knows as 
 much about it as I do. I think he recognizes the theory on which 
 the bill was draAvn — that it only seeks to recognize the use of the 
 public land, leaving the control of the right to the flowing to the 
 various States. In fact, an amendment put in the bill expressly de- 
 clares so ; therefore there is nothing in the water-power bill to inter- 
 fere with the rights of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. The point I wished to make was that none of these 
 allotments have been confirmed to the Indians. He has no title. 
 
 Senator Myers. He has an inchoate right. 
 
 Senator Lane. Absolutely none, and any time the Interior Depart- 
 ment wishes to, as has been done in favor of power sites and other 
 reservations. 
 
 Senator Myeks. But other allotments can not take that away. 
 
 Senator Lane. The department has acted in the interest of the 
 Indian confirming and selling these lands, that is my belief, but at 
 the same time Mr. Meritt will bear me out in stating that they have 
 not been farmed, hence the Indian has no valid title. 
 
170 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator ilYERS. But under the law if he is entitled to so many 
 flcres and takes an allotment which could by any sort o± action be 
 drawn as a power site, he would be entitled to go and take another 
 allotment somewhere else. You can not rob him ot his allotment 
 under the bill, and I hold he has an inchoate right to that land. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The statutes of the United States expressly pro- 
 vide that when an Indian assumes an obhgation for an allotment 
 and is entitled to the allotment, is a legal allottee, and the land is 
 subject to allotment and the department refuses to grant the allot- 
 ment, he may bring a suit and get a decree that gives him the title 
 to that allotment. • , j. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I prosecuted some cases under that act ]ust before 
 1 came here and got a decree in accordance with the suggestion of 
 Senator Clapp. and you do not need any approval of the Indian 
 Department. The Indian Department can not help but approve the 
 selection made by an Indian of the land on which he lives. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Senator Lane, I should like to ask you a question. 
 1 heard your statement with a great deal of interest. You have been 
 in this reservation. I think there ought to be some relief for those 
 Indians you referred to, but do you find in this bill anything tha* 
 limits their rights? 
 
 Senator Lane. I have an idea that this item I called attention to 
 might; leaves them entirely out of the land. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Their allotments can not be taken away from them 
 if they are legally entitled to an allotment, and that land is subject 
 to the allotment? 
 
 Senator Lane. Their water rights can be taken, then what good 
 is the land without the water? 
 
 Senatoi' Clapp. Do you understand that this bill would deprive 
 them of their water? 
 
 Senator Lane. If we recognize the contention of the State that the 
 persons who make beneficial use of water and have been making 
 beneficial use have the first right, then the Indians would be left 
 without the water. I think that same thing applies to one of these 
 other canals in there. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I asked the question and the statement of the 
 engineers was that the water supply is sufficient for all. 
 
 Senator Lane. On this Birch Creek, too? 
 
 Senator Townse>'d. They say for all. 
 
 Senator Lane. Does not the canal company take all the water, 
 virtually, in Birch Creek? Does not the Conrad Investment Co. 
 take all the water out of Birch Creek? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There is a decision in the Conrad investment case, 
 and the decision was favorable to the Indians. In answer to the 
 statement of the Senator from Michigan I will say that the reason 
 why this did not come up in the House was because our estimates 
 were not prepared until after the bill had been reported to the 
 House. The last Indian appropriation act contained a provision 
 authorizing the investigation of the water-right situation on a num- 
 ber of Indian reservations. A commission was appointed to investi- 
 gate the Blackfeet, Fort Peck, and Flathead irrigation projects, and 
 that commission did not submit its report until after we had sub- 
 mitted our estimat(^s for the Indian bill. We are required under 
 the law to submit our estimates to the Treasury Department by 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 171 
 
 October 15, and beciuise of the fact that the commission did not 
 submit its report until after we liad ah'eady submitted our estimates 
 in accordance with the law, it was necessary for us to submit sup- 
 plemental estimates. 
 Senator Townsekd. Have you copies of that leport? 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What became of that report? 
 Mr. Meritt. It has been submitted to Congress and has been in the 
 Government Printing Office for some time for printing, but on ac- 
 count of some maps it has been impossible to get the report out. 
 
 Senator Tomnsend. Do you not think it would be a good plan for 
 this committee to know what that report is before we act on it ? 
 
 Mr. Meriti'. The report is here, Senator, and was read from 
 freely by the Senator from Montana yesterday at the hearing. 
 
 Senator Towxsend. I have great confidence and faith in the Sena- 
 tor from Montana, but I think this commission was authorized for 
 the purpose of procuring some information for the benefit of the 
 flongress in acting upon these measures. 'SVe did act in a measure 
 jpon it last year; the House has not acted upon it now because it 
 v.5id not have the estimates and the reports. It would seem to me 
 as though that is a pretty good thing to read and for us to under- 
 stand before we act upon it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have an extra copy of the report in typewritten 
 form in the office, and we would be glad to have it submitted. 
 Senator Townsend. Why can it not be printed? 
 The Chairman. The maps have delayed its printing. 
 Senator Townsend. How long before it will be out ? 
 Mr. jSIeritt. W^e submitted that report to Congress more than a 
 month ago. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Should not each member of the committee get 
 a copy 'i 
 
 i6. Meritt. As soon as it is printed. It will be printed soon. 
 Now, as to the proposition raised by Senator Lane, I want to say 
 that the Indians have title to the Blackfeet Reservation, and it is 
 impossible for the department to take any of that land away from 
 those Indians without specific authority from Congress. We can 
 not open that reservation or. dispose of any of that strip of land 
 without specific authority from Congress. So far as this bill affect- 
 ing the lands on the Blackfeet Reservation, those Indians will not 
 be deprived of a foot of land under this bill. On the contrary, they 
 will be protected in their water rights under this legislation. As 
 to the water-power proposition I will say that there is very valuable 
 water power on the Flathead Reservation. That water power is 
 estimated to be worth $1,000,000. That water power has been with- 
 drawn and is held for the benefit of the Flathead Tribe of Indians, 
 and thev will get the benefit of the water power when it is developed 
 under the amendment submitted by Senator Robinson to the water- 
 power bill. We attempted to get an amendment before the House 
 committee so that the Indians could get the benefit of theirjvater 
 power, but that amendment was not enacted; but t^.^ f;,^f "i^.^J 
 that has been submitted by Senator Robmson will protect the water 
 powers on Indian reservations. -t r „^^^„-,Uar^ nr,r 
 
 Senator Robinson. That amendment provides, '^Jj^^^^^^^^^^ 
 rectly, that if the Secretary of the Interior leases water-power sites 
 
■j^Y2 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 within the Indian reservations the proceeds of the leases shall be 
 covered to the credit of the Indians? 
 
 Mr Meeitt Yes, sir; and we have now authority, under sections 
 13 and 14 of the act of June 25, 1910, to reserve water powers on 
 Indian reservations, and that has been done on the Flathead Reser- 
 
 ^ Venator Lane. Economic at times and convenient at times in the 
 past in the consolidated Indian allotments? , iw 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. Yes, sir; we have authority of law to cancel allot- 
 ments in two cases. 
 
 Senator Lane. What are they? , „ , , , , ^, 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Where there is a double allotment and where there 
 has been fraud in procuring the allotment. 
 
 Senator Lane. In no other cases? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir ; but even then, when we cancel an allotment, 
 the land goes back into the tribal ownership. 
 
 Senator Lane. Here is a letter from the Department of the In- 
 terior, the office of the Secretary, signed by the Secretary himself, 
 in which it says as follows : 
 
 The following is an excerpt from letter datetl January 9, 1915, and signed 
 bv Commissioner Sells : 
 
 " " The withdrawal of the power site on the Crow Reservation was made m the 
 interests of the Indians. The order of withdrawal is as follows: 
 
 " ' It is hereby ordered that the following-described land (3,760) acres, valu- 
 able for power sites be, and the same are hereby, reserved from location, sale, 
 entry, allotment, or other appropriation, and that no trust or fee simple patent 
 be issued as regards the lands until further orders.' " 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior coneui's in the above with the following letter 
 signed by him : 
 
 " I visited the Crow Reservation last year and found much that I thought 
 could be improved, and from that time until now we have made vigilant and 
 unceasing effort to improve the conditions which arose under previous adminis- 
 trations. It is a matter of pride with me that the Indian shall see that this 
 iidministration is a real friend and that tlie Indian lands are his and being used 
 by him. I have been kept in touch by Commissioner Sells with what has been 
 done, and have helped in the direction and framing of the policies pursued, and 
 1 know that what has been done has been right .-ind will prove beneficial to the 
 Indians." 
 
 Were not some of those allotted lands? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I do not know of the cancellation of any allotments 
 within that reservation, but that power site was withdrawn for the 
 benefit of the entire tribe, and the tribe of Indians will get the 
 benefit of that power site rather than one particular Indian of that 
 tribe. 
 
 Senator Lane. I thought there were exceptions at times when you 
 did cancel the allotment. It has been done, I think ; I mean to say 
 that I have been informed that it has been done in a number of cases. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is another law which will authorize the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior, where an allotment has been made on a power 
 .site, to give that Indian a new allotment and to reserve that power 
 site for the benefit of the tribe. 
 
 Senator Lane. Would that not, then, apply to this Conrad power 
 site now, and this other one up on Two Medicine, if it is within 
 the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior to cancel these below? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. If it is intended by the allotment of the power site 
 to benefit the Indians, that allotment could be canceled and the 
 power site reserved for the benefit of all the Indians. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 173 
 
 Senator Walsh. I should like to say a word with respect to this 
 Blackfeet appropriation. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. May I make a suggestion before you proceed? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I think it would be in the interest of time and 
 the interest of finally determining this matter. I like the suggestion 
 made by Senator Townsend that this committee ought to have the 
 benefit of that investigation, otherwise it is futile for Congress to 
 order investigations of this character. I do not know Avhat the effect 
 of that report would be, but I am impressed with the idea that this 
 amendment is in a shape that in some respects will protect the inter- 
 ests of the individual Indians on that reser\'e, for the reasons which 
 have heretofore been stated, but I shall reserve the right, if the 
 amendment is passed at this time, to either amend it or to oppose it 
 in the Senate in the event it goes in the bill, if I conclude to do so. 
 But the immediate purpose of my suggestion now is that perhaps 
 if a subcommittee of this committee should be appointed to become 
 familiar with all the aspects of this amendment it might be deter- 
 mined without tiiking the time of the full committee to study 
 the report of that commission, and I myself can not serve on a sub- 
 committee, because I already have more committees and subcom- 
 mittees than I can conveniently serve on, but I suggest that, and if 
 the committee thinks it is a good idea, I shall be glad if they adopt 
 it. We have already had much enlightenment on the proposition, 
 but I believe I should like to have, some one on the committee investi- 
 gate that report. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I feel that if the chairman of this committee 
 will call upon the department, or upon the Printing Office, and insist 
 that we want that report we can get it here. I do not want to delay 
 the passage of the bill, but we will not get through ; but if we should 
 have that before us so we could look it over it would be of some value 
 to us. As Senator Robinson says, if we do not have it what ad- 
 vantage is it for Congress to appropriate money to get this informa- 
 tion and then we pass it by without even reading it, ordering it 
 printed, and yet we do not wait to get the result of it. I agree with 
 you that I do not want to delay anything or anybody at any time, but 
 T have this further idea, that if that committee found it necessary, if a 
 subcommittee found it necessary, to go into the matter more fully than 
 could be done before this bill was reported, or we could arrange to 
 agree among ourselves to report such an amendment, if we finally 
 agreed on it, made it a committee amendment, there would be no 
 trouble about it. 
 
 The Chaieman. Senator Townsend, every effort Avill be made to 
 hurry the printing of the report of the commission. I will telephone 
 personally to the Printing Office to-day. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, the pending amendment proposes 
 an appropriation of $50,000 for the completion of the irrigation work 
 of the Blackfeet Indian Eeservation. There is nothing in the nature 
 of urgency, nothing of an imperative character, about that, bo far 
 as the Indians are concerned they would suffer no great detriment if 
 you did not make any appropriation this year so far as that irriga- 
 tion proiect is concerned. The trouble about this is, and no doubt 
 that is what moved the Indian Office, thaf under the rules governing 
 the appropriation of water the work must be prosecuted diligently 
 
174 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 and without interruption to its completion in order to prevent the 
 initiation of intermediate adverse rights, and so the Indian Office 
 does not want to stop its work lest other appropriators might come 
 in and say " Our appropriation comes in ahead of you because you 
 did not prosecute your Avork with due diligence." That is why you 
 should make some appropiiation in order to enable them to do some 
 work on that now in order to preserve the water rights which you 
 have filed on and appropriated for for the benefit of the Indians. 
 Just one w'ord about the Conrad Dam, to which Senator Lane invites 
 your attention. That matter is absolutely disposed of. It is' settled 
 by the adjudication to which Mr. Meritt calls your attention. It was 
 tried out and the principle of the Winters case was applied to this 
 particular instance. The facts are exactly the same. AH this part 
 of the State was an Indian reservation at one time; everything was 
 thrown open except Fort Bellaiap and the Blackfoot area. Birch 
 Creek forms the southern boundary of the Blackfeet just the same as 
 this river [indicating] forms the northern boundary of Fort Belknap, 
 and the doctrine of the Winters case applied in the Conrad case, and 
 the Indians there had the benefit of it. So that it does not make any 
 difference how high the Coniad Investment Co. puts its dam or how 
 much water it stores, the Indians on the Indian reservation are enti- 
 tled to the prior rights to that water. 
 
 Senator Thompson. To a certain per cent of the water ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. No; entitled to so much of the water as is nec- 
 essary to the irrigation of their lands. 
 
 Senator Thompson. It was not adjudicated how much? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes; at that time 66f inches were requisite for 
 the use of the Indians there. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Was that case ever appealed to the higher 
 courts ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. No; it went to the circuit court of appeals. So 
 that that matter is taken care of, and there is nothing in this bill that 
 in any way interferes with the rights of the parties. 
 
 The Chairman. What is the further pleasure of the committee on 
 this matter? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. You Avill find reference to the Conrad case in 156 
 Federal Reporter, 123, and in 161 Federal Reporter, 829. 
 
 Senator Page. -Before we finally pass this matter I should like to 
 have Mr. Meritt explain, because it is not perfectly clear to me, 
 and I am sure it must not be to the other members of the com- 
 mittee— we have heretofore appropriated these sums to be reim- 
 bursable. Now we omit that term and proceed upon some other 
 method of bookkeeping. As I understand it, it is really reimbursable, 
 part by the whites and part by the Indians, but I should like for him 
 to explain, if he will, briefly how material the changes are from the 
 former methods of appropriation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Would you object to letting this amendment 
 go over until we can get that commission's report here? 
 
 Senator Page. Not at all. 
 
 The Chairman. Then that will go OAer until we get the commis- 
 sion s report. 
 
 Senator Myers. I am very glad to have all the members of the 
 committee read that ie]:.ort and all I ask is that this motion, which 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 175 
 
 I have made to adopt this amendment prepared by Mr. Meritt be 
 voted on some time before this bill is reported out, and that I be 
 notifaed and have the privilege of being here vehen it is voted on 
 or taken up for further discussion. ' 
 
 NORTH DAKOTA. 
 
 The Chaihman. That will be done. The next item I want to pre- 
 sent to your consideration, with your permission, relates to North 
 Dakota. Senator Gronna, will you help us present North Dakota 
 next? 
 
 Senator Gronna. I was going to say that my colleague is absent 
 from the city and he has some amendments, so that it perhaps 
 would be better for it all to go over until his return. 
 
 Senator Page. Let us pass it. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I am perfectly willing that we shall act on the 
 amendment which I have offered. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Let us take it up as a whole. 
 
 The Chairman. We can take up North Dakota to-day unless you 
 object. 
 
 Senator Gronna. No; I do not object. 
 
 JOINT COMMISSION. 
 
 The Chairman. This item which I want to present to your atten- 
 tion is this. It is an amendment I wish to present to the bill, as fol- 
 lows: 
 
 There is hereby authorized to be continued during the Sixty-fourth Congress 
 the present Joint Commission to Investigate Indian Affairs, with powers and 
 duties as provided in the Indian appropriation act of June 30, 1913 (38 Stat. 
 L., 81) and the unexpended amount therein appropriated for the expense of said 
 commission is hereby reappropriated and made available for the purposes 
 therein authorized. Said commission shall make their findings, conclusions, 
 and recommendations to Cougiess during the Sixty-fourth Congress. 
 
 I will consume but a moment in explaining this amendment. It 
 is for the purpose of continuing the activities and energies of the 
 joint commission during the Sixty-fourth Congress. This com- 
 mittee, and other committees, have done the best they could under 
 certain circumstances, but we know that we are hemmed in by 
 certain rules; we can not proceed with the celerity and get at the 
 truth as well, although I think we are all disposed to, as well as the 
 joint commission, because of its powers of inquisition, v^hich are 
 somewhat enlarged over this committee. This joint commission, in 
 my opinion, has done splendid work for the Indians, for the public, 
 and for Congress. They have probed many matters ; they have got 
 at the truth that we would not have reached. I earnestly hope that 
 the amendment will be adopted so their activities will continue dur- 
 ing the Sixty-fourth Congress. . 
 
 Senator Kobinson. I wish to make just a brief statement. This i? 
 a very disagreeable and arduous service which has been imposed on 
 this commission. The Indian appropriation act, under which the 
 commission was created, required the report to be submitted prior to 
 March 4, 1915. At the same time that this commission was created 
 another was created composed in part of the same members, charged 
 
176 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 with the responsibility of investigating two particular and very large 
 matters. Congress has been in session practically all the time since 
 the creation of this commission. Our meetings have been held largely 
 at night and we have worked under great disabilities. Some matters 
 have been called to our attention that we would like to pursue before 
 undertaking to complete our labors, and we feel that we have been 
 under very great disadvantage in the conduct of this work owing to 
 the fact that Congress has been continuously in session. That is all 
 1 have to say about this matter. 
 
 Senator Page. This commission consists of yourself, Senators Lane 
 and Thompson? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Yes; and three Members of the House — the 
 chairman of the Indian Affairs Committee (Mr. Stephens), Mr. 
 Burke, and Mr. Carter. 
 
 The Chairman. I do not know whether the amendment I have 
 submitted fully covers the suggestion. Congressman Burke, a Mem- 
 ber of the House ; his term will expire the 4th of March. Although 
 his term expires, no legal objection is made to his continuing a mem- 
 ber of the commission. In fact, the Senate has certain commissions 
 appointed composed of Members whose terms have expired, and I 
 hope the language will be adequate to continue Mr. Burke as a 
 member. 
 
 Senator Towksend. There is no compensation attached to it? 
 
 The Chairman. No. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The language simply continues the commission. 
 The commission is independent of Congress, while at the time it was 
 created it was composed of Members of Congress. 
 
 Senator Myees. Why not name the members of the commission ? 
 
 Senator Page. Should not the House be consulted about that? 
 They might say they preferred to have three Members of Congress. 
 
 Senator Clapp. They can amend it in conference if there is any 
 question about it. 
 
 The Chairman. Senator Townsend, you frame it so as to ade- 
 quately meet the situation. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I think it does now. I think it possibly would 
 make it a little clearer if you put in the word " present " before the 
 words " joint commission." 
 
 The Chairman. It is then agreed to. Would you rather wait for 
 your colleague. Senator Gronna, to come back to take up North 
 Dakota? 
 
 Senator Gronna. I should prefer to. He will return some day this 
 week. 
 
 LAWS and treaties PERTAINING TO INDIAN AFFAIRS. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It does not make any difference when it is done, I 
 suppose. Some years ago the Senate provided a print of the laws 
 and treaties pertammg to Indian affairs. Two volumes were printed, 
 the third volume is now completed, and no provision has been made 
 tor payment. 1 offered an amendment the other day to the appro- 
 P'"^*V^?u-''',^^-fPP''*^P?'^^*^"g $^'000 for payment. It was suggested, 
 and I think it is advisable that the Indian Committee recommend the 
 Item, as it was done under the direction of the Indian Committee and 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 177 
 
 in connection with the work of the Indian Committee, and I there- 
 fore move that the Indian Committee recommend the item. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is that as compensation or expenses? 
 
 Senator Clapp. It covers everj'thing. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How much compensation is wanted ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. For the third vohime, $3,000. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How much is the total amount? 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is all — the printing is all done. We have 
 already printed and distributed to Members the third volume of the 
 Indian laws and treaties. We had two volumes printed two years 
 ago. This in the third volume, and there has been no provision made 
 for compensation for editing the work, and I introduced an amend- 
 ment to the general appropriation bill to authorize the payment to 
 Mr. Kappler of $3,000. ]Mr. Kappler suggests, and I think the sugges- 
 tion a good one, that inasmuch as the work was done for our com- 
 mittee, and done in connection with matters pertaining to our com- 
 mittee, that we ought to recommend it. If we approve it, of course, 
 the appropriation must be made by the Appropriation Committee. 
 It will not be put on our appropriation bill, you know. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How do you arrive at the fairness of the 
 amount? I do not know what would be a proper compensation. In 
 the first place what have his labors been, Senator ? I agree with you 
 that some provision ought to be made to pay him for the work, but 
 what has he done ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. He has collected the Indian laws that were passed 
 since the second volume was printed — put them in their form there 
 and indexed them. 
 
 Senator Page. At whose instigation or direction did he prepare 
 them? 
 
 Senator Clapp. It was done by the Indian Committee 8 or 10 
 years ago. 
 
 Senator Robinson. A kind of continuing work, was it? 
 
 Senator Clapp. It had seemed advisable. 
 
 Senator Robinson. When was this commenced ? 
 
 The Chair3l\n. The first one is dated January 21, 1903. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That represents work extending over about 
 10 years? 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is compiled to December 1, 1913. 
 
 Senator Robinson. About 10 years, then— a compilation of the 
 legislation ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. Why was not that work done in the department? 
 Why did we go outside to get work of that kind done ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. It would hardly be fair to impose that duty on the 
 department. 
 
 Senator Page. Have we imposed the duty on anybody, or was it 
 
 purely self-imposed? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No ; we imposed it by a resolution passed by the 
 Senate about 1903 or 1904. . 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you not think we ought to have mtorraa- 
 tion from the department as to what they think this work is worth « 
 Do you not think we ought to have it from somebody? 
 
 82833— TOL 1—15 12 
 
178 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That would be a matter for the Appropriation 
 Committee to deal with. The only thing I think we should do is to 
 recommend to the Appropriation Committee that they put an item 
 
 in for this purpose. ■, ^ j. a 
 
 Senator Townsend. I still have not quite got an answer to Sena- 
 tor Page's question. How did this man happen to do this? 
 
 Senator Clapp. About seven or eight years ago, I do not remember 
 exactly when, the Senate, by a resolution, directed that the Indian 
 laws and treaties be compiled and indexed. Two volumes were pre- 
 
 ^^Senator Eobinson. Who employed this man? Who was author- 
 ized to employ him ? , ^ , . » ^, 
 
 Senator Clapp. At that time I think I was chairman o± the com- 
 mittee, and two volumes Avere prepared, one of treaties and one of 
 laws, coming down to that time, about 1903. Then, in the course of 
 the 10 ye.irs, I suggested to him that if they would make one volume 
 about the size of the other volumes it. would be well enough to com- 
 pile the balance of the laws down to date, which he has done. There 
 ;; re two questions before Congress — one is whether he shall be paid 
 anything, and the other is how much he shall be paid. ^ 
 
 Senator Page. Is there any copyright; is there any advantage he 
 gets from that? Does he sell the books himself? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No ; he has no copyright, of course. 
 
 The Chairman. No ; this is not copyrighted. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not know the slightest thing about it. Mr. 
 Kappler, I suppose, was competent to do that work. The point with 
 me is, if anybody picks up a job and goes on with it and by and by 
 comes in and asks us to pay him $3,000, it is rather contrary to my 
 bringing up. I like an opportunity to make a trade if I am going 
 to impose a burden on myself. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Did you have an understanding with him as 
 to what he should have for it ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What arrangement did you have? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Simply to have him go ahead and make the com- 
 pilation. I forget now how much we paid him. The records will 
 show. 
 
 Senator Page. I have no question that Senator Clapp is bound 
 to see that this is paid anyway, even out of his private pocket. 
 
 Senator Clapp. As Mr. Webster said about the national debt, if 
 there is any question about it I will pay it. 
 
 The Chairman. What is your pleasure on it? 
 
 Senator Clapp. He states here that they paid $5,000 a year for 
 compiling the directory; I think it is the Biographical Congressional 
 Directory. 
 
 Senator Page. Do not misunderstand me. I am not criticizing 
 the amount there. I do not knoAv anything about it, that is all. 
 The question in my mind is whether we should not 
 
 Senator Eobinson. If it is your suggestion merely to refer the 
 matter with the recommendation that some compensation be paid, I 
 believe he ought to be paid something. 
 
 The Chairman. It is for the Appropriations Committee to say 
 how much. 
 
^^.i/x«.j.> Ai-i'HUJr'BIATION BILL. 279 
 
 Senator Townsei^d. It will not be put into this appropriation bill 
 Senator Page. Let us leave the amount out P^^'^i^on oiu. 
 
 The Chairman Those in favor of recommending the Appropria- 
 tions Committee to pay Mr. Kappler for his third volunTe will say 
 
 aye 
 (The motion -was agreed to.) 
 
 UTAH. 
 
 The Chairman (reading) : 
 
 Sec 21. For support and civilizatiou of Confederated Binds of TTtP«- Wnr 
 pay of two carpenters, two millers, two farmers and two hWif«miti!^ fa' Jf 
 fifteen treaty of March second, eighteen hund"4 J^VsTx^yStT $6 72o''?o? 
 pay of the two teachers (same article and treaty), $1,800; Lr purchase of 'iron 
 rM^^iooo'"^/''^ necessary tools for blacksmith shop (article nfnesfme 
 treaty), $220; for annual amount for the purchase of beef, mutton wheat flour 
 beans, and potatoes, or other necessary articles of food and clothing (art°cle 
 
 Ti&rS'TSh^'-'''-' ''' ''' "^ -^'^--^ ^' '^^ several Ve\SS 
 
 Senator Page. These are all treaty provisions, Mr. Meritt? All 
 accordmg to the treaty agreements? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. It is justified on page 292 of the House 
 hearmgs. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we adopt it. 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection it is agreed to 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Before that item, they left out a short support fund 
 which we should like to have incorporated in the bill, and which 
 reads as follows: 
 
 For the support and civilization of detached Indians in Utah, including nav 
 of employees, §10,000. 
 
 That item has been carried in the bill for a number of years, but 
 left out on a point of order in the House. 
 
 The Chairman. Estimated for $10,000? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. Was there any objection made to it in the House 
 committee 1 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; the House committee allowed the item. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that it be restored. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 The Chairman (reading) : 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior is hereby autli(iriiie<l to withdraw from the 
 Treasury of the United States, within- his discretion, the sum of .fl50,000 of 
 the principal funds to the credit of the Confederated Bands of Ute Indians 
 and to expend the sum of .$.50,000 of said amount for the benefit of t)ie Navajo 
 Springs Band of said Indians in Colorado, not to exceed $25 000 of which 
 amount may be used in providing- school and hospital facilities among said 
 Indians, and the sum of $100.(J0() of said amount for the Uintah, \^'hite River, 
 and Uncompahgre Bands of Ute Indians in Utah, and the sum of ,$50,000 of said 
 amount for the Southern TTte Indians in Colorado, which sums shall be charged 
 to said bands, and the Secretary of the Interior is also authoi'ized to withdraw 
 from the Treasui-y the accrued interest to and including June thirtieth,, nine- 
 teen hundred and fifteen, on the funds of the said Confederated Bands of 
 Ute Indians appropriated under the act of JIarch fourth, nineteen hundred and 
 thirteen (Thirty-seventh Statutes at Large, page nine hundred and thirty-four), 
 and to expend or distribute the same for the purpose of promoting civilization 
 and self-support among the said Indians, under such rcLrulations as ihc Secre- 
 
180 INDIAK APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 tary of the lulciicr may prescribe: ProriOcih Tliat the «iid Secretary of the 
 Interior shall report lo Congress on the first ilonday in December, nineteen 
 hundred and sixle(-n, ii detailed statement as to all moneys expended ;iS pro- 
 vided for herein. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The House allowed the language we asked for, but 
 materially reduced the amount. We asked for $450,000, on line 13, 
 page 31, to be distributed as follows, and to expend the sum of 
 $150,000 of said amount, beginning with line 15, for the benefit of 
 the Navajo .Springs Band of said Indians in Colorado, not to exceed 
 $50,000, instead of $l'o.OOO, which amount may be used in providing 
 school and hospital facilities among said Indians, and the sum of 
 $200,000 of said amount for the Uintah, White River, and Uncom- 
 pahgre Bands of Ute Indians in Utah, and the sum of $100,000, 
 instead of $.")0,000, of said amount for the Southern U^te Indians in 
 Colorado. We have justified that item fully on page 295 of the 
 House hearings. This appropriation is out of the tribal funds of 
 those Indians. The Court of Claims a few years ago awarded them 
 $3,305,257.19, and Congress, by the act of March 4, 1913 (37 Stat. 
 L., 984), set aside that amount to the credit of these Indians in the 
 Treasury of the United States. 
 
 Senator Page. On what page do you find the argument of the 
 House ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Beginning on page 295, House hearings. 
 
 Senator Robinsox. How is it proposed to be expended in the first 
 instance? You state that $25,000 of the amount shall be provided 
 for school facilities. The amount was to $150,000. How was the 
 remaining $125,000 to be expended? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There are three agencies which will be provided for 
 under this appropriation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Three agencies created? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; no new agencies. The care of Indians at 
 three agencies now existing, the Uintah and Ouray, the Southern Ute, 
 and the Navajo Springs Agencies. At two of these reservations we 
 have constructed irrigation projects, and it is necessary that we use 
 the tribal funds of these Indians to make beneficial use of the water 
 under these irrigation projects. On the Uintah Reservation we have 
 expended more than $800,000 for the construction of the irrigation 
 project, and, under the State law, it is necessary that we make bene- 
 ficial use of the water by 1919, and it is going to require every possible 
 effort on our part to conserve the water now belonging to those 
 Indians, and also conserve the irrigation projects for their benefit. 
 We have worked this out very carefully, and the Indians will be 
 very much benefited if they are permitted to use on the reservation 
 the funds now in the Treasury. 
 
 Senator Page. Your justification is on pages 295, 296, and 297? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. Where do you speak of these items here of irri- 
 gation ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There is no appropriation for irrigation in these 
 items. We are simply using this money to get the Indians started 
 on their allotments. You see it will take approximately $10 an acre 
 to level the allotments under those irrigation projects on the Uintah 
 Reservation and get the land under cultivation. 
 
 Senator Page. How manv are there of these three lots of Indians? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPfilATlON BILL. 181 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There are 1,176 Indians on the Uintah Reservation; 
 360 on the Southern IJte Reservation, and 504 on the Navajo Springs 
 Reservation. 
 
 Senator Page. Five hundred and four of the Navajo Springs. 
 How much of the confederated bands? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The total is 2,040 Indians. 
 
 Senator Robinsox. Does any of this appropriation go for sub- 
 sistence ? 
 
 Mr. MEErrr. Part of the money will be taken out of the Treasury 
 and deposited in local banks, segregated and deposited in local banks, 
 and where Indians are in urgent need we may use part of it for 
 subsistence, but most of the money will be used in buying farm im- 
 plements, teams, and helping the Indians put their land imder 
 cultivation. 
 
 Senator Town send. Is that the reason so few are engaged in farm- 
 ing now. because they do not have anything to do it with? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Towxskxd. I see tlmt only '20 out of the .504 Navajos, only 
 68 out of the 360 Utes, and only 205 of the 1,176 Uintahs are engaged 
 in farming. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. An Indian who is given an allotment and is not given 
 implements with which to cultivate his land is practically helpless. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the total amount, if you know, carried 
 in this House bill that came to us ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. About $8,000,000. 
 
 Senator Robinson. \^Tiat proportion of that is payable out of 
 tribal funds? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. About $1,000,000. 
 
 Senator Robinson. And the balance from the Treasury ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Wliat proportion of that is reimbursable ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think about $2,000,000. 
 • Senator Robinson. Do you Imow how much we have raised this 
 bill already? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have raised the bill, I should say, more than 
 $1,000,000. Our estimates were $9,533,463.20. That does not include 
 the supplemental estimates for irrigation, which would make it 
 about $11,000,000. 
 
 Senator Page. If we are going to cut your estimates anywhere, is 
 this not as good a place as any? I am not saying we ought to cut it 
 at all, but if we are going to cut it, is not this as good a place as any < 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This appropriation would not increase the total of 
 the Indian biU because it comes out of the tribal funds of the In- 
 dians, and I would say this was the poorest place m the Indian bill 
 to make a cut, because if those Indians do not make benefacial use ot 
 their water by 1919 they will lose the investment already made tor 
 that irrigation project, which amounts to more than $800,000. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How will they lose it? j j +u 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Congress has passed a law m 1906 which extended the 
 water-right laws of Utah to the irrigation pro]ects on the Umtan 
 Reservation. This morning when the Montana projects '^ere up f or 
 discussion 1 was going to read from laws enacted by Congress which 
 extended the water-right laws of Montana to those projects, and 1 
 will do so the next time that matter comes up. 
 
182 indiajst appkopeiation bill. 
 
 Senator Page. Then we have our legislation extending the water- 
 right laws of Montana to Indian lands ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; and that is the reason why it is necessary to 
 get that law repealed. 
 
 The Cpiairman. What will you do with this item, gentlemen? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. It is very important that we get our estimates on this 
 item. 
 
 Senator Page. What are we going to say to the House when they 
 say we appropriated $150,000 and you multiplied it by three? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Of course it is appropriation out of the tribal 
 fund and it is justified pretty strongly in the argument. 
 
 Senator Page. There is no argument except the general one that 
 can be used. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. There is this argument. Senator. If we do not get 
 this appropriation, the Indians will not be able to make beneficial use 
 of their water within the required time and the Indians will lose that 
 water right, and the investment that Congress has heretofore made 
 in irrigation projects will practically be lost. 
 
 Senator Page. But you can use this $150,000 agreed to here and cut 
 short on others. You say you can use this for any purpose you 
 please, for education, for subsistence, farming, tools, and other" things. 
 This is a pretty broad field to use $150,000. You could probably take 
 care of the water-right part, could you not, the irrigation ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is estimated it will take about $800 per allotment 
 on the Uintah Reservation in order to get that allotment under culti- 
 vation. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Could that not be divided so as to allow you 
 $300,000, the same as in 1915 ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The time is so short that it is necessary that we get a 
 large appropriation at this time. 
 
 Senator White. As I understand, the land would be valueless 
 unless you get the use of water ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. And they lose the beneficial use of it if we do not 
 make this appropriation? 
 
 Senator Page. Not quite, because he says we will use this part for 
 support and part for this and part for that, and part will go for 
 the irrigation purpose. 
 
 Senator Thompson. You do not think the $150,000 will go to the 
 beneficial use, though? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The most of the appropriation will be used for get- 
 ting the Indians started on their allotments. 
 
 Senator Geonna. How much of it will be used for irrigation? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No part of this appropriation will be used for con- 
 struction of an irrigation project. 
 
 Senator Geonna. It will all be used — the $450,000 would be used — 
 for maintenance or for purchase of machinery? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Except the appropriation for the construction of the 
 school and hospital. 
 
 Senator Geonna. What do these Indians know about fanning? 
 Are they competent to operate machinery? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have been trying to teach them in the last two or 
 three years the importance of farming and they have begun in a 
 small way to farm. We have sent one of our strongest superin- 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATIOIsr BILL. 183 
 
 tendents, Mr. Kneale, to the Uintah Reservation recently to take 
 charge of that proposition, and he has been instructed to use every 
 endeavor to get those Indians out on their allotments so they will 
 begin doing actual farming work. 
 
 Senator Gronna. This superintendent you mentioned knows some- 
 thing about farming, does he ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. He is one of the best industrial men in the service. 
 
 Senator Page. We have been pretty reckless in our appropriations 
 here. I should not be surprised if there would be a reaction brought 
 about in the Senate that would make it pretty difficult for us to get 
 these propositions through if we are too reckless. There is $150,000. 
 I should not hesitate a bit at what it was last year, but we propose 
 now to increase it from $150,000 to $-i50,000. 
 
 The Chairman. What was it last year? 
 
 Senator Page. $300,000. 
 
 The Chairman. Let us stay with that of last year, then, if you 
 feel that way. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Speaking for myself, I do not care what the 
 amount is if it could be put to the proper use. I do not think we 
 .should hmit it to-day just because the House has done so, or because 
 some one has recommended it. Of course the commissioner knows 
 whether or not it can be put to proper use. That seems to me to be 
 the most important thing. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. If we do not make beneficial use of that water on the 
 Indians' land the department and Congress will be very severely 
 criticized. 
 
 The Chairman. I suppose that is true. 
 
 Senator Thompson. I understand none of this is for water pur- 
 poses. 
 
 Senator White. For the purpose of enabling them to use it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. For the purpose of enabling them to form their allot- 
 ments and make use of the water which has heretofore been provided. 
 
 Senator White. As I understand under the laws of that State 
 every allottee that does not begin to use his water within a given 
 time loses that right. This is to enable each one of these allottees to 
 do that? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. If the courts sustain the act of the Congress, that will 
 be the effect. 
 
 Senator Page. Will you tell me the page which shows the expend- 
 iture of last year ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The appropriation was not made until August, and 
 the money is not yet expended. 
 
 Senator Page. Have you any account of what you have expended i 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have a statement here as to how that money has 
 been hypothecated. You will find that at page 296. 
 
 Senator Page. That shows that you put in live stock $91,966 for 
 the Navajos and $50,000 for the Uintahs ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. You see, they have grazing lands as well 
 as irrigable lands. 
 
 Senator Thompson. You will have a hard time to get an item 
 r&iS6(i 
 
 Senator Page. School and hospital. $50,000. Implements, $10,000, 
 or total implements, $30,000. This is rather a blind statement. 
 
184 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That is a per capita statement. That money has not 
 been paid per capita, but it has been divided per capita and de- 
 posited in the local banks ; and the superintendent is authorized to 
 draw on that money, with the consent of the Indians, for farming 
 implements and ^oods of that character. 
 
 Senator Page. How much per capita does that make ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I would have to figure that out. Senator. 
 
 Senator Page. The Navajo Springs share is a per capita of $100, 
 you speak of here, $100 a year ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Thompson. I believe that I Avill move that we stay with 
 that $300,000 limit. 
 
 The Chaieman. The Senator from Kansas moves that it be ap- 
 proved at $300,000. 
 
 Senator Geonna. The department seems to recommend this ap- 
 propriation. These funds are tribal funds. We are not taking any 
 money out of the Treasury. 
 
 Senator Robinson. But, then, we owe the obligation to expend it 
 judicially and economically. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Of course, that goes without saying. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Here is the fact. They have not expended the 
 money that was appropriated last year. They have got a fund on 
 band there now. How much is it, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yfe probably have $300,000 which has not been ex- 
 pended, but it will be expended before the beginning of the next 
 fiscal year when this bill will become effective. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Then could you not get along with $300,000? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We could get along with $300,000, but we would not 
 get along as well as if we had $450,000. 
 
 Senator Robinson. And you would not get along as well with 
 $450,000 as you would with $1,500,000? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That is true. But if those Indians have this large 
 amount of money in the Treasury and they are not permitted to use 
 that money in order to conserve their water rights they will have a 
 very serious complaint to make. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is true. How much of this $450,000 will 
 be used in that way and for that direct purpose ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Practically all this money will be used except the 
 $50,000 providing for, the school and hosfiital facilities. All the 
 money that is appropriated and used on the Ute and Uintah Reser- 
 vations will be used to conserve the water rights of those Indians. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I am willing ,to stand for the full amount. 
 
 The Chaieman. Those in favor of reporting $450,000 will say aye. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we approve the next item of $10,000. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 (Thereupon, at 1 o'clock p. m. the committee adjourned until 
 Wednesday, January 20, 1915, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 20, 1915. 
 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, White, Clapp, La 
 FoUette, Page, and Gronna ; also Mr. E. B. Meritt, Assistant Com- 
 missioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 LEASING or TUSTAI/LOTTED GRAZING AND OTHER LANDS OF INDIANS. 
 
 The Chairman. Senators, if I may have your attention for just a 
 moment, you know that for years the department has desired au- 
 thority and power to lease unallotted grazing and various other 
 lands. You remember that last year we incorporated in our bill a 
 provision authorizing the department to lease agricultural and graz- 
 ing and mining lands, and it went out on a point of order because 
 of opposition. Now, the House has passed the following bill and I 
 would like to have it put in on the Indian bill. Here is the bill and 
 the report of the department. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator La FoUette has given more time to this 
 leasing business than any of us and I would like to have him look at 
 that bill before we take action. 
 
 The Chairman. Senator Gronna, here is a bill that has passed 
 the House and has been reported on favorably by the department. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Is it not reasonable to suppose that it will go out 
 on a point of order ? 
 
 The Chairman. I think it is our duty to keep staying with it 
 until we have it passed, however. 
 
 Senator Gronna. There are certain Senators opposed to the leas- 
 ing system. I spent 30 days on the leasing system, and I might as 
 well have saved my time. 
 
 The Chairman. This bill reads as follows : 
 
 AN ACT Authorizing the Secretary of the Interior to lease for grazing and 
 agricultural purposes unallotted Innds within Indian reservations established 
 by act of Congress or Executive order. 
 
 Beit enacted dy the Senate ami House of Beprcrritatives of *'f ^t^"/'"'. f *«*f s 
 of America in Congress assemUed. That the Secretary of the Interior be, and 
 he is hereby, authorized to le.ise for grazing and agricultural Purposes unal- 
 lotted lands within Indian reservations established by act of Congress or 
 Executive order in such quantities and upon such terms and conditions and 
 und^r such regulations as he may r.rescribe and ^^ay expend the proceeds 
 received in the purchase of live stock for the benefit of the fibe occupy mg 
 the reservation leased: Provided. That no grazing' '"^'^''if p. ' flten ve-irs 
 to exceed five years and no agripulturnl lease for a period to exceed ten years. 
 
 185 
 
186 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 The bill as introdxiced provided for mining leases and the House 
 struck that out. You ^¥ill find it in the report of the committee. 
 We had it on the bill last year and it went out on a point of order. 
 
 Senator Page. Did we agree to it last year in committee? 
 
 The Chairman. Oh, yes; we unanimously agreed to it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What is the general statute regarding the 
 leasing of Government lands for grazing purposes in forest reser- 
 vations ? 
 
 The Chairman. There is no law leasing the public domain. I 
 would not say there is a lease but at least a permit charge per head 
 for sheep, and so much per head for cattle is charged for the privi- 
 lege of allowing the sheep and cattle to graze thereon. Thirty-five 
 Eer cent of the fees collected out of the national forests are covered 
 ack by the National Government into the treasury of the State to be 
 given to that county in which the forest lays. So 35 per cent of the 
 fees collected on national forests goes back to the county for school 
 and road purposes, but there is no statute authorizing the lease of 
 public lands — lands that are not some kind of a reservation. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But in the leasing of forest reservations 
 the law prescribes a minimum, does it not ? 
 
 The Chairman. A fee? 
 
 Senator La Follette. A fee. 
 
 The Chairman. I thing it is left in the discretion of the Forest 
 Service. 
 
 Senator Jones. There is no law about it. It is a regulation of the 
 department. , 
 
 The Chairman. Senator Jones is present and desires to make a 
 brief statement. 
 
 Senator Jones. The statute specifically authorizes them to lease, 
 and they pursue it under the administration of the forest reserva- 
 tions. 
 
 Senator La Follette. There is another question that arises to be 
 considered in connection with Indian reservations, and that is the 
 effect of this sort of thing upon the Indians themselves. It author- 
 izes the white people to go upon these reservations, and just how 
 much demoralization that is likely to bring onto the reservation I 
 think is a thing to be considered very carefully. 
 
 The Chairman. That is very true. 
 
 Senator La Follette. After they get on there it is pretty hard to 
 dispossess them — get them off. I suppose they could carry on their 
 cowboys and these fellows who are attending to their herds and 
 carry on liquors. 
 
 The Chairman. That is not the experience in my State. 
 
 Senator Page. I said I would not raise the point of no quorum, Mr. 
 Chairman, but I think when a matter of this importance arises we 
 ought to have a quorum. It is a rather large subject, and I would 
 like to hear the other side of the case. 
 
 Senator La Follette. We had a good deal of testimony taken be- 
 fore this committee with respect to the bad work that was done on 
 the Crow Reservation through those people who are under leases; 
 that they trampled on the rights of the Indians and really became the 
 masters pretty nearly of the reservation. 
 
 The Chairman. 1 will state to the committee that the Depart- 
 ment of the Interior asked me to present this bill. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 187 
 
 Senator Geoxn A. There is, of course, a sentiment against the leasing 
 system in the West— I mean of public lands. The question in my 
 mind is, "Would it be advisable to do something for the Indians that 
 we would not be willing to permit to be done for the white men« 
 
 The Chairman. In answer to Senator La FoUette, I will say that 
 this provision will be attacked by nearlv every western Senator. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is on the ground that they do not want 
 to countenance public leasing, and back of that lies the desire to get 
 these lands for the State to dispose of. 
 
 The Chairmax. That is very true, but unless some provision is 
 made for leasing or getting revenue for the Indians, the pressure 
 becomes so strong that improvident openings will occur. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Really the pressure will not arise, I take it, 
 because the Indians are not getting some revenues out of these lands, 
 but because the white people want the lands to use, and the next step 
 after leasing is to dri^ e them off altogether and take the reservation. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Back of that lies a still graver problem, and that 
 is the effect of the Indian himself being a landowner, which I think 
 is very unfortunate. • 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes ; I do also. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It may be necessary to lease ; I would not say it is 
 not, but I think it ruins the white man to be a landlord as well as the 
 Indian. 
 
 Senator La Follette. This bill proposes that the proceeds of the 
 leasing shall be invested in cattle for the Indians. 
 
 The Chaiejian. Yes; I think it ought to have a Avider sweep if it 
 is going to pass. I do not think it ought to be spent for cattle only. 
 
 Senator La Foulette. I think you would have some conflicts be- 
 tween the cattle of the Indians — that is, of the rights between the 
 Indians after they become possessed of herds — and these people who 
 are on there with their herds. 
 
 The Chaiemak. Of course there will be in some instances. 
 
 Senator Page. The statement has been made here before our com- 
 mittee within the last 24 hours that the Indians on certain reserva- 
 tions were in a starving condition. Why, if that is the case, Mr. 
 Meritt, should not this fund be used to supply the very pressing 
 needs, unless you have it from some other source, of these starving 
 Indians? 
 
 Senator La Follette. You mean the fund from the leasing? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Where the funds are available, Senator, they are used 
 for that purpose. 
 
 Senator Page. This bill provides that they shall be used for buying 
 stock. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Under the comptroller's decision we have authority at 
 this time to use the proceeds from leasing of tribal lands for the pur- 
 pose of aiding the Indians and relieving distress. I will say that the 
 most important need in the reservations in regard to leasing is to 
 get authority to lease for mineral purposes. This bill does not cover 
 that. . . 
 
 The Chairman. The House struck out the mineral provision. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You think they have stricken out the most 
 important feature of this bill, do you? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
188 INDIA^T APPEOPKIAIIOK BILL. 
 
 Senator La Follette. May I ask you how much has been done by 
 the Government toward inaugurating a system of investing the 
 money of these Indians who have grazing lands in herds for them- 
 selves — herds to be owned by the Indians; how many different res- 
 ervations have we now which the Indians themselves have cattle 
 of their own for ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have adopted that policy on a number of reserva- 
 tions. On the Crow Reservation, for example, we have , 
 
 Senator La Follette. On how many different reservations have 
 we established that policy ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I should say probably half a dozen reservations — on 
 the Crow Reservation and the Tongue River Reservation, and we 
 are getting ready to buy cattle for the Blackfeet Indians, and we 
 expect to put a tribal herd on the Fort Belknap Reservation, in Mon- 
 tana ; also herds on some of the southwestern reservations. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Mr. Meritt, how many Indian reservations 
 are there suitable for grazing purposes that you would lease if this 
 proposed amendment were adopted ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This proposed legislation will not give the depart- 
 ment much more additional authority than we have at this time. We 
 now, on practically all the grazing reservations, have authority to 
 lease. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Oh, you have? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Except on Executive-order reservations, and on those 
 reservations we have authority under the decision of the law officers 
 of the department to make permits and use the proceeds the same as 
 we use the proceeds from the regular lease. This legislation here 
 would not extend the authority of the department very materially, 
 but it would require the department to expend the proceeds for the 
 purchase of cattle. 
 
 Senator Page. And you think that is the proper use to put it to, 
 do you? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I think it should be discretionary with the Secretary 
 of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Is that not discretionary ? It says, " may expend." 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. How many reservations are leased in whole 
 or in part for grazing purposes to white men; could you state ap- 
 proximately ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I would say that we have leases on probably 20 reser- 
 vations. 
 
 Senator Page. They are the larger of the reservations, are they 
 not? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Usually the larger of the reservations. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are you prepared to state what the work- 
 ing of that policy of leasing is, whether it has objectionable features; 
 how it affects the Indians to have these white men with cattle there? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It has been helpful in some places and objectionable 
 in others. We feel that the white lessees have gone on some of our 
 reservations and have practically monopolized the reservations in 
 the past, and have gotten more benefit out of the reservations than 
 the Indians themselves. They have put cattle on there and made 
 it impossible for the Indians to utilize the reservations as they would 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. IgQ 
 
 have if the white people's cattle were not there. The white permittees 
 make considerable money out of these grazing permits, and if we 
 had the fimds with which to put a tribal herd on these reservations 
 the Indians themselves would get the benefit of their grazino- lands 
 But it costs money to put a herd on a big reservation. "^ 
 
 Senator Page. We have already, this vear, have we not, appropri- 
 ated some rather large sums for putting herds on reservations? 
 
 Mr. Mehitt. You have made an appropriation of $600,000 ; it was 
 made last year for general industrial purposes throughout the Indian 
 country. But on one resei\ation at this time a lessee probablv has 
 $1,000,000 worth of cattle, and you see it takes an enormous amount 
 of money to start a tribal herd on the various reservations, and the 
 Indians have been handicapped because thev were without funds. 
 We have within the last year expended about $400,000 of the moneys 
 of the Crow Indians in buying about 9,000 head of cattle for the 
 purpose of stocking only a small part of that Crow Reservation. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Is it found advisable when you inaugurate 
 this policy on reservations to do it on a pretty large scale ; to put it 
 in another way, do you find that good business management requires 
 that vou should have a consideraible herd in order to care for them 
 at all? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That would depend, of course, upon the reservation. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Could you start in a small way on some of 
 these reservations — in a very small way and with a small amount of 
 money — and work up gradually to the larger herds? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; on some of the reservations wo can start in 
 a small way and gradually work up. Of course the conditions are 
 different on each reservation. On the Crov.- Reservation we could, 
 if we had the funds available and could utilize the entire reserva- 
 tion, make a wonderful showing there in the cattle industry. As it 
 is, we have not the funds sufficient to stock the entire i-esorvation, and 
 it will be a loss to the Indians to permit the grass that is not being 
 used to be utilized by outsiders, inasmuch as we have not the fund 
 to stock the reservation with cattle of the Indians. At the same 
 time, there has been in the past an injustice done to the Crow Indians, 
 because the cattle of the white lessees have been allowed to run over 
 the allotments of the Indians. "We are trying to correct that condi- 
 tion. It is a hard condition to correct, because here is an Indian 
 allottee in the pasture and the white man's stock is going to injure 
 that allotment more or less. We have recently adopted a policy on 
 the Crow Reservation of reimbursing that Indian hereafter for the 
 use of his individual land and requiring the lessee to pay for damages 
 that mav accrue to the individual allottee. 
 
 Senator Page. To what extent are these leased lands fenced? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have line fences on various reservations, and 
 some of the pastures are fenced. 
 
 Senator Page. As a rule, do those persons who lease these lands 
 permit their cattle to run at large almost anywhere— cover the indi- 
 vidual allotments of the Indians? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That has been done more or less in the past. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They do not fence pastures for their stock 
 
 to run in, do they ? , , ^ i 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Not always ; sometimes they do, but not always. 
 
190 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I should think it would be very much less 
 expensi'\e to fence the allotment, because the allotment area is small, 
 while the range area would be very large. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And if those allotments where they are try- 
 ing to do a little farming are overrvm with stock it must be utterly 
 discouraging to the Indians. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And demoralizing to the development of 
 agriculture, and either their allotments ought to be fenced or the 
 stock ought to be kept off, I should think. 
 
 , Mr. Meeitt. Among the Sioux reservations we have had consider- 
 able difficulty in the past with the white lessees who permitted their 
 cattle to overrun the allotments of the Indians, and we have within 
 the last few months collected about $25,Q00 from the white lessees 
 for damages done to Indian allotments, and we are trying to 
 straighten out that condition, but it is one of the difficult prob- 
 lems 
 
 Senator La Follette. That go with leasing? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it not incumbent upon the lessee to keep within 
 the lands that are leased to him? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; it is part of his duties. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It is part of his contract ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Part of his contract, but he does not always live up 
 to his contract. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you lease a certain acreage; do you 
 make a contract for a certain acreage, or do you make a contract for 
 a certain sized herd to be permitted to range on the reservation? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. On some of the reservations we lease by the acreage 
 and on other reservations we lease so much per head. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And where the lease contract is by the head 
 they have the right to range over the reservation excepting, I sup- 
 pose, you have stipulated in that contract that they must pay for the 
 damages ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Even in those cases we seek to restrict them to a cer- 
 tain area. On the Tongue Eiver Keservation we have gotten as high 
 as about $2.50 a head. In the Southwest we get $1 and $1.50. 
 
 Senator La Follette. For the season? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. For the season. 
 
 Senator La Follette. The season of a year? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. By the year, and on some of the Northwestern reser- 
 vations we get anywhere from $1.75 to $2.50. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I should think if they destroyed the crop of 
 the Indians, even if you are able to get full value of the damage done, 
 it would be pretty poor policy so far as the Indians are concerned, 
 because it must utterly discourage them from trying to raise crops. 
 
 Mr. MJEEiT'r. That is true. Up until within a few years ago the 
 Indian question on a reservation was a tribal proposition solely, and 
 the reservation was utilized for the benefit of the entire tribe with- 
 out regard to the individual Indian. Within the last few years we 
 have realized that the Indian problem is now an individual problem 
 and we must develop the individual Indian and give him his pro 
 rata share of the property and permit him to use the property so 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 19J^ 
 
 that he may become a self-supporting citizen, the same as the white 
 man. The transfer from the old system to the new system— the 
 tribal system to the individual system— has caused complications 
 and the mdividual Indian, of course, has gotten the worst of it in a 
 number of cases between the passing of the tribal proposition and 
 the inauguration of the individual proposition. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Meritt, do the lessees of these lands put up 
 shacks to protect the cattle during the very cold weather where they 
 keep them during the whole year? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. On some of the northern reservations they do to a 
 hmited extent, I think, but a very limited extent. 
 
 Senator Page. Do they cut hay to provide for the coldest weather* 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; they cut hay and buy hay from the Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. Then it is always in the interest of the lessees to 
 get long leases instead of short ones because of the expense incurred 
 in putting up these shacks or protective sheds ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The lessees naturally like to have leases for a term of 
 five years, if they can get them. 
 
 Senator Page. And the department usually regards it as wise for 
 the Indians as well as the lessees to make a five-year lease, does it not ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That would depend upon the reservation. Where a 
 reservation has not been allotted and we can get adequate rental there 
 would be no serious objection to a lease for five years. But where 
 the reservation has been allotted and the Indians are beginning to 
 use their lands a long-term lease would be objectionable, and it is dis- 
 couraged by the office. This leasing proposition is rather a compli- 
 cated one, and each reservation presents a different problem. 
 
 Senator Page. Xow, coming back to the question of mines, you say 
 that is the most important feature of this House bill, 10833, and it 
 has been stricken out ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. Will you explain to the committee the grounds for 
 suggesting that you restore that word " mines " to the bill ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The department has for a number of years tried to get 
 legislation authorizing it to make contracts for mining on Executive- 
 order Indian reservations. That authority it does not have af this 
 time. On a number of reservations there are valuable minerals, 
 and we have no authority to make use of those minerals for the benefit 
 of the Indians. If that legislation is not ultimately enacted by Con- 
 gress the department will ha\'e difiiculty in preventing the opening 
 of these reservations, and then the Indians will not get the benefit of 
 the reservations such as they would get if they had this legislation. 
 
 Senator Page. What are the objections urged to the retention of 
 this word " mines " bv those who oppose the leasing of the mines ? 
 
 The Chairman. They claim that the citizens now have the right 
 to go upon Indian reservations and locate claims whether or no. If 
 you will pardon me, that is one of the objections, I take it. They 
 claim that no law has ever suspended the mining rights on those res- 
 ervations. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We claim that that contention is without any founda- 
 tion. 
 
 The Chairman. Absolutely without foundation. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No one has authority to go on an Indian reservation 
 and mine minerals without authority of the Secretary of the Interior, 
 
192 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 and the Secretary of the Interior is not given authority now to 
 authorize the mining of minerals on Executive order reservations. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator La FoUette, you have made a study of this 
 question of mines. Suppose you let us haAe your views, if they are 
 opposed, and I suppose they are. It seems to me it might be well 
 to lease these mines for short-term periods and develop them. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I have not opposed the leasing of mines. I 
 am in favor of the Government leasing mineral lands. 
 
 Senator Page. I was mistaken. I thought you were on the other 
 side. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I presented bills for a good many sessions 
 to bring that about. As to leasing any part of the Indian reserva- 
 tions, I never have expressed myself as favoring that, and I think 
 I would want to know definitely with regard to each case, because I 
 think each reservation offers a rather different problem. 
 
 Senator Page. Well, it would be next to impossible for us here 
 to do more than leave the matter to the department. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I am not so certain that in any general 
 leasing law there ought not to be a provision for certain limitations 
 within which the leases should be made; for instance, a general 
 leasing law of Government mineral lands I think should provide 
 a minimum royalty that should be paid to the Government, fixed 
 in the lease, and a great many other conditions should be expressed in 
 the lease, the violation of which would terminate the lease, such as 
 entering into combination. For instance, if the mineral is coal, enter- 
 ing into a combination for the control of the market price of the 
 coal ; that ought to terminate the lease, and mining w^astefully ought 
 to terminate the lease. 
 
 Senator Page. Are there not some general statutes that cover many 
 of these points? It can not be possible that we have been leasing 
 lands for yeais without having made some provision to protect the 
 Government and protect the Indians? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think the leasing provisions that have been 
 enacted into law have almost entirely left the whole matter to the 
 discretion of the department, and I think the department gets im- 
 posed upon very often. I have great confidence in the good inten- 
 tions of the department, but I think the department is imposed upon 
 frequently. 
 
 The Chairman. I suggested this matter because the chairman of 
 the House Committee on Indian Affairs asked me to do so. I want 
 to incorporate in the record the letter of the Assistant Secretary 
 asking this legislation, which is my justification for presenting it. It 
 is a serious question. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Suppose you read it. 
 
 The Chairman. I will have it inserted in the record. 
 
 (The letter referred to is as follows:) 
 
 Dkpartment of the Interiok, 
 Waaliiiigion, December 13, 1913. 
 My Dear Mr. Stephens: I Iiave the honor lo transmit herewith draft of pro- 
 posed legislatinu which has for its purpose the leasing of lands for grazing, 
 agricultTual, and mining purposes within Indian reservations established by act 
 of Congress or Executive order. The proposed legislation reads as follows : 
 
 " That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to lease 
 for grazing, agricultural, and mining purposes unallotted lands within Indian 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 193 
 
 reservations establislied by act of Congress or Executive order in sucli quanti- 
 ties and upon sucli terms and conditions and under such regulations as lie may 
 prescribe: Pro ii(/t(/, Tbat no grazing or agricultural lease shall be for a period 
 to exceed five years and no mining lease for a period to exceed ten years" 
 
 There is authority of law, found in section 3 of the act of February 28 1891 
 (26 Stat. L., 795), for leasing lands within treaty Indian reservations. It is the 
 opinion of this department that there is great public need for authority of law 
 for the leasing of lands within Indian reservatons that have been established 
 by act of Congress or Executive order. Because of the lack of the legislation 
 herein requested certain portions of the Indian country included within reserva- 
 tions established by act of Congress or Executive order are being retarded by 
 nondevelopment and the Indians are being deprived of an income which they 
 would otherwise receive. 
 
 The draft of legislation herewith is considered of great importance and will 
 result in benefit to the Indians and the development of certain parts of the 
 Indian country, and I have the honor to urgently recommend that It receive 
 the early and favorable consideration of your committee and the Congress. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 Hon. John H. Stephens, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 House of Representatives. 
 
 WASHINGTON — d'wAMISH AND ALLIED TRIBES. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 Sec. 21. For exijenses incident to carrying out provisions of laws of United 
 States applicable to the D'Wamish and allied tribes in Washington, including 
 pay of employees, $7,000. 
 
 The Chairjfan. That is in accordance with the estimates in last 
 year's appropriation. 
 
 Senator Page. Unless there is objection, I move that it be ap- 
 proved. 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 QUI-NAI-ELTS and QUrL-LEH-TJTES. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For e.xpenses incident to carrying out the provisions of law of the United 
 States applicable to the Qui-nai-elts and Quil-leh-utes, including pay of em- 
 ployees necessary to such worli, $1,000. 
 
 The Chair3ian. That is in accordance with the estimate in last 
 year's appropriation. 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 COLVILLE, PUTALLUP, AND SPOKANE AGENCIES. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 For expenses incident to carrying out the provisions of the laws of the Umtea 
 States applicable to the Indians at Colville, Puyallup and Spokane Agencies, 
 including pay of employees necessary to such work, $15,000. 
 
 Senator Page. I see that the House has cut the estimate $3,000-^ 
 
 Mr.MERiTT. The House cut our estimate front $18 000 to |15,0UU, 
 and also left out the support of one agency, the Taholah. After the 
 word " Colville " I would like to have the word ' Taholah ' inserted, 
 and after the word "work" in line 24 I would like to have these 
 
 82833— VOL 1—15 13 
 
194 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 words inserted. '• and for the purchase of agricultural implements and 
 support and civilization of Joseph's Band of Nez Perce Indians in 
 Washington." 
 
 Senator Page. And you want it restored to $18,000 « 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 (The item as amended was agreed to.) 
 
 Senator Page. Let us hear the reason why they cut it down, if 
 there is any reason. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The House gave no specific reason as to why the 
 estimate was cut down except that they cut down a number of items 
 in connection with the support of various agencies. They left out 
 the Taholah Agency, I suppose, because they had not provided for it 
 heretofore. We have recently segregated the Taholah Agency from 
 the Cushman Indian School and appointed a superintendent and 
 f)laced him in 'charge of these Indians. The superintendent of the 
 Cushman School had his time taken up fully with that school. It 
 is a large nonreservation school and the superintendent paid little 
 attention to the Taholah Indians and it was necessary to establish a 
 superintendency for them. We would like to have the word "Ta- 
 holah " inserted after the word " Colville." 
 
 Senator Page. Does that require $5,000 more than last year? Last 
 year it was made $13,000. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. We need every dollar of the appropriation 
 that we have asked for here. 
 
 The Chairman. That is $18,000? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 THE MAKAH INDIANS. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, the House left out a support item as 
 follows : 
 
 For support and civilization of the Mal^ahs, including pay of employees, $2,000. 
 
 That item, I think, has been carried in the Indian bill for a num- 
 ber of years, and is in accordance with our estimates, and justified on 
 page 301 of the House hearings. 
 
 Senator Page. Did the House committee leave it out, or did it go 
 out on a point of order? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It went out on a point of order. The House committee 
 inserted it in the bill. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we reinsert it. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 YAKIMA agency. 
 
 (The next item was as follows:) 
 
 For expenses incident to carrying out the provisions of the laws of the United 
 States applicable to the Indians at Yakima Agency, including pay of employees 
 necessary to such work, $3,000. 
 
 Senator Page. That is according to the estimate, and I move that 
 it be approved. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 195 
 
 THE Sl'OKANES. 
 
 (The next item was as follows :) 
 
 For support of Spokanes in Washington (article six of agreement witli said 
 Indians, dated March eighteenth, eighteen hundred and eighty-seven ratified 
 by act of July thirteenth, eighteen hundred and ninety-two), $1,000. ' 
 
 Senator Page. That is a treaty obligation, and I move that it be 
 approved. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 lEEIGATION SYSTEM ON LANDS ALLOTTED TO TAKIMAS. 
 
 (The next item was as follows :) 
 
 For operation and maintenance of the irrigation system on lands allotted to 
 Yakima Indians in Washington, $15,000, reimbursable in accordance with the 
 provisions of the act of JIarch first, nineteen hundred and seven. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have incorporated 
 after the word " seven," in accordance with our estimate, the follow- 
 ing language : 
 
 Provided, That money received under agreements for temporary water supply 
 may be expended under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior for main- 
 tenance and improvement of the irrigation system on said lands. 
 
 Senator Page. That is with regard to Yakima? 
 
 Mr. Meeiti'. Yes, sir. This item is fully justified on page 304 of 
 the House hearings. 
 
 The Chaikman. There is no extension. Is that a misprint in the 
 bill? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is the same amount that was allowed last year. 
 It was a misprint. 
 
 The Chairman. You want the following language after the pro- 
 viso, in accordance with your estimates: 
 
 Provided, That money received under agreements for temporary water supply 
 may be expended under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior for main- 
 tenance and improvement of the irrigation system on said lands. 
 
 That is in accordance with last year's Indian bill — the Indian bill 
 approved August 1. 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 INDIAN PUPILS AT CTISHMAN INDIAN SCHOOL, TACOMA. 
 
 (The next item was as follows:) 
 
 For support and education of three hundred and fifty Indian pupils at the 
 Cushman Indian School, Taeoma, Washington, including repairs and improve- 
 ments, and for nay of superintendent, $50,000, said appropriation being made 
 to supplement the Puyallup school funds used for said school. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is in accordance with our estimate and is justi- 
 fied on page 307 of the House hearings. It is the same amount that 
 has been allowed by Congress' for a number of years. 
 
 Senator Page. Why did the House leave that out ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It was not left out. 
 
 The Chairman. There was simply no extension. The House did 
 not leave it out. It was a mistake on the part of the printer. 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
196 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 IRRIGATION OF TAKIMA INDIAN RESERVATION. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. WESIEY L. JONES, A SENATOR FROM 
 
 WASHINGTON. 
 
 Senator Jones. Mr. Chairman, I understood from Mr. Meritt, 
 who I called on the telephone the other day, that he has an estimate 
 to submit to the committee to carry out the provisions of the last 
 Indian appropriation bill for the purchase of water that you pro- 
 vided for. It was provided in that bill for the appropriation of 
 $635,000, I think it was, to acquire certain water for these Indians. 
 You appropriated $100,000 in that act, and also provided that the 
 other should be appropriated in accordance with the estimates to 
 be submitted by the department, and I understand that Mr. Meritt 
 has such an estimate. 
 
 The Chairman. It was a provision in the bill last year?_ 
 
 Senator Jones. Yes ; you will remember we had a provision in the 
 bill last year. The House committee submitted an estimate to which 
 I have offered an amendment, and which has been referred to this 
 committee. They submitted an estimate of $100,000 to provide a dis- 
 tribution system, to distribute the water that we provided for the 
 purchase of. I called up the office about that estimate to carry out 
 that provision in the Indian bill to purchase the water. 
 
 The Chairman. Calendar No. 228? 
 
 Senator Jones. That is not the estimate I am referring to now. 
 Mr. Meritt told me over the telephone that he had the estimate and 
 would bring it down to the committee. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have two estimates under the Washington head, 
 Mr. Chairman. The first estimate reads as follows, and is found in 
 House Document No. 1481, Sixty-third Congress, third session. 
 
 Senator Page. That is a supplemental estimate? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. A supplemental estimate. 
 
 Senator Page. It is the same matter that was contained in that 
 paper with the small print that was before us yesterda,y with regard 
 to Montana. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. This estimate reads as follows: 
 
 For the second installment of $635,000 to pay for water supply for irrigation 
 of 40 acres of each Indian allotment on the Yakima Indian Reservation irriga- 
 tion system, in the State of AVashington, provided by the act of August 1, 1914 
 (Public. 160), $100,000, to be covered into the reclamation fund. 
 
 Note. — It was understood in the Indian Office that the estimates for appro- 
 priations under this provision were to be prepared by the Reclamation Service, 
 inasmuch as the proposed legislation to provide a water supply for the entire 
 project, 120,000 acres, jointly recommended by the two bureaus, had been re- 
 jected by Congress, and an entirely new proposition to provide a supply suffl- 
 •clent only to satisfy the Indians' suppressed rights in the low-water flow was 
 carried by the Indian appropriation act of August 1, 1914 (Public, 160), thus 
 apparently providing for the approi)ri;itions without the necessity of further 
 action on the part of the Indian Office. It was the understanding in the Recla- 
 mation Service that as the proposed legislatii^n agreed upon, but which did not 
 meet favor in Congress, contemplated annual appropriations in the Indian bill, 
 and as the first installment was includfd in the Indian bill, estimates for subse- 
 •quent installments would be prepared by the Indian Office. On account of these 
 conditions, this estimate was not submitted on October 15, 1914. 
 
 There is an imperative public necessity for the appropriation, in order that 
 the amounts be paid to the reclamation fund as early as possible, as required 
 t)y law, and in carrying out the full terms of the settlement of the matter as 
 .provided in the act of August 1, 1914 (Public, 160). 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 197 
 
 The CiiAiRJiAN. That is one of the subjects printed in the report 
 that we are waiting for from the Government Printing Office. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; it is not involved in that report. The report 
 we are waiting for refers only to the Blackfeet, Flathead, and Fort 
 Peck Indians. Mr. Eeed is here and I would he glad to have him 
 explain to the committee the necessity for this item. 
 
 The Chairman. I Avould be glad to have this matter go over until 
 Mr. Robinson is present. 
 
 Senator Jones. I want to call your attention to the provision in 
 the last Indian appropriation bill. That shows the necessity for 
 that. It says : 
 
 There is hereby authorized to be apprcipriated tlie sum of !?(i:!5,000 to pay 
 for said water, to be covered into the reclamation fund ; the amount to be ap- 
 propriated annually in in-;t;illnients njion estimates ceitifled to Congress by the 
 Secretary of the Treasury, and $100,000 is hereby appropriated to pay the first 
 installment. 
 
 Xow, Mr. Jleritt has just explained why they did not make the 
 estimate for this year; that the Reclamation Service thought the 
 Indian Office should do it, and the Indian Office thought the Recla- 
 mation Service should do it. So this resolves itself into merely car- 
 rying out that provision. 
 
 The Chairman. There is no objection to that. Senator ; but unless 
 your engagements are such that you can not do so, we would like to 
 have you come back another morning upon this proposition. 
 
 Senator Clapp. This does not change any law. This present 
 amendment is simply for the $100,000, is it not ? 
 
 Senator Jones. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. I think we had better pass this. 
 
 Senator Jones. I Avill say that the amendment I have introduced 
 probably does contain what you have in mind. This is a different 
 proposition. 
 
 The Chairman. It is agreed to. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Last year's provision was for $635,000. 
 
 Senator Jones. Yes; the estimate. 
 
 Senator Gronxa. To be paid in annual installments. And what 
 you are asking for now is that a certain portion of this $635,000 be 
 authorized to be used ? 
 
 Senator Jones. Yes. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I have no objection to it. 
 
 The Chairman. I am not opposed to it, Senator. It is agreed to, 
 and if any Senator wishes to recur to it, it may be done. 
 
 DAM ACROSS THE TAKIMA RIVER. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, the House omitted another item in 
 connection with the Washington items. 
 
 The Chairman. Is it in the big Book of Estimates? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir: it is to be found on page 305 of the House 
 
 hearings, and is as follows ; 
 
 For construction of a dam across the Yakima River for the diversion and utili- 
 zation of water provided for forty acres of each Indian allotment on the Yakima 
 Reservation, Washington, and such other water supply as may be available or 
 acquired for the irrigation of a total of one hundred and twenty thousand acres 
 of allotted Indian land on said reservation, and for beginning the enlargement 
 and extension of the distribution and drainage system on said reservation, 
 
198 INDIAN APPEOPBIAHOIT BILL. 
 
 $100,000, to be immediately available and to remain available until expended: 
 Provided, That tlie cost of tlie entire diversion works and distribution and drain- 
 age system shall be reimbursable by the ovrners of the lands irrigable there- 
 under in not to exceed twenty annual payments, and the Secretary of the In- 
 terior may fix operation and maintenance charges which shall be paid as he 
 may direct. 
 
 In the apportionment of charges against Indians, due allowance shall be made 
 for such amounts as may have been repaid the United States on account of 
 reimbursable appropriations heretofore made for this project, and for the con- 
 struction of the irrigation system prior to the passage of the act of December 
 twenty-first, nineteen hundred and four (Thirty-third Statutes at Large, page 
 five hundred and ninety-five), as therein provided. All charges against Indian 
 allottees herein authorized, unless otherwise paid may be paid from individual 
 shares in the tribal fund when the same is available for distribution, and if 
 any allottee shall receive patent in fee to his allotment before the amount so 
 charged against him has been paid to the United States, then such amount re- 
 maining unpaid shall be and become a lien upon his allotment, and the fact of 
 such lien shall be recited in such patent and may be enforced by the Secretary 
 of the Interior by foreclosure as a mortgage, and should any Indian sell any 
 part of his allotment with the approval of the Secretary of the Interior, the 
 amount of any unpaid charges against the land sold shall be and become a 
 first lien thereon and may be enforced by the Secretary of the Interior by fore- 
 closure as a mortgage, and delivery of water to such land may be refused Vithin 
 the discretion of the Secretary ai the Interior until any dues are paid: Pro- 
 vided further, That no right to water or to the use of any irrigation ditch or 
 other structure on said reservation shall vest or be allowed until the owner of 
 the land to be irrigated as herein provided shall comply with such rules and 
 regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe, and he is hereby 
 authorized to prescribe such rules and regulations as he may determine proper 
 for making effective the foregoing provisions, and to require of owners of lands 
 in fee such security for the reimbursement herein required as he may determine 
 necessary, and to refuse delivery of water to any tract of land until the owners 
 thereof shall have complied therewith. 
 
 Senator Page. The bill reads $400,000. 
 
 Senator Jones. Yes ; I put that in in accordance with the estimate 
 of the local engineer. 
 
 The Chairman. Your estimate is $100,000? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 We have submitted a full- justification for this item, which is to be 
 found on page 305 of the House hearings. I will be very glad to 
 have Mr. Eeed, the chief engineer of our irrigation service, answer 
 any questions that may be asked on this subject. 
 
 The Chairman. Why did the House omit this, Mr. Meritt, or did 
 they give any reason? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No reason at all. The House omitted all new con- 
 struction items. 
 
 Senator Jones. Before you ask Mr. Eeed any questions let me ex- 
 plain why I made my estimate of $400,000 instead of $100,000. I did 
 that because the local engineer urged as imperatively necessary 
 $400,000 to begin the work for this coming year. That report is to 
 be found in Senate Document 1472, I think it is, which has not as 
 yet come from the printer ; it is in press. Secretary Lane approved 
 the report of the local engineer and was rather surprised to see the 
 estimate of $100,000. I suppose Mr. Meritt can tell why they cut 
 the estimate from $400,000, as recommended very strongly by the 
 local engineer. I put in the $400,000 because he urged it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are required to cut the estimates of our local 
 people, the superintendents. They submit estimates amounting to 
 about $20,000,000 every year for the Indian appropriation bill, and 
 we go through their estimates and cut them down to about $9,000,000. 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIAXION BILL. 19§ 
 
 In a great many cases there is an actual need for the money re- 
 quested, but we realize that the estimates must be cut to the limit 
 and that is one reason why Ave cut this estimate from $400 000 to 
 $100,000. ' 
 
 The Chair^ian. $100,000 is amply large. You can use the 
 $100,000? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We can "use the $100,000 to advantage. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to this item? If not it 
 will be agreed to at $100,000. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 The Chairman. Have you anything further to say. Senator Jones? 
 
 Senator Jones. No, Mr. Chairman. 
 
 LEASING of mineral. AGRICLTLTURAL, AND GRAZING LANDS (rESITMEd). 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. MILES POINDEXTER, A SENATOR FROM 
 
 WASHINGTON. 
 
 Senator Poindexter. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have some 
 provision inserted in the bill at the proper place that would au- 
 thorize the leasing of mineral and agricultural and grazing lands 
 on the tribal lands of executive-order reservations. 
 
 The Chairman. I will state. Senator Poindexter, that we just had 
 that question up. The House has passed a bill providing for the 
 leasing of agricultural and grazing lands. The bill originally pro- 
 Aided for the leasing of mining land, but the House struck that out. 
 We have just had some discussion upon that subject. It was in the 
 bill last year approved by this committee, but went out on a point 
 of order. If you desire to be heard, the committee will hear you. 
 
 Senator Poindexter. I do not want to be heard formally about it. 
 I have a letter here from the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in 
 which he proposes a certain form of legislation for that purpose, in 
 which he says: 
 
 On December 13. 191.3, tlie First Assistant Secretary of the Interior sub- 
 mitted to the chairmen of the Committees on Indian Affairs in the House and 
 Senate a draft of proposed legislation, reading : 
 
 "Be it enacted by the Senate ami House of Representatives of the United 
 States of America in Congress assemliled. That the Secretary of the Interior be, 
 and he is hereby, authorized to lease, for grazing, agricultural, and mining pur- 
 poses, unallotted lands within Indian reservations established by act of Con- 
 gress or Executive order in such quantities and upon such terms and conditions 
 and under such regulations as he may prescribe: Provided. That no grazing 
 or agricultural lease shall be for a period to exceed five years and no mmmg 
 lease for a period to exceed 10 years." 
 
 Should the proposed legislation or something similar thereto be passed, the 
 tribal land of the Spokane Reservation can be leased thereunder. The limit ot 
 10 years for mining the lease is the same as that contained m the act of leb- 
 ruary 28, 1891 (26 Stat. L., 795), authorizing the leasing of tribal land on Indian 
 reservations created by treaty. 
 
 I have here statements from residents in the vicinity of some of 
 these reservations— the Colville and Spokane Indian Keservations— 
 setting out the attitude of the Avhite population m the vicinity ot 
 these reserved areas in regard to this proposition of opening tiiem 
 up for use and development. They claim that there ai'e valuable 
 mineral deposits, particularly in the Spokane Indian Keservation. 
 Now, it is perfectly evident that if there are mineral deposits there— 
 
200 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 and of course it can not be ascertained until development work is 
 done how much there is — it would be to the advantage of the Indians 
 as well as to the white people to have them opened -up. There is no 
 principle in conservation or in any of the contests that have been 
 made for preventing the exploitation of public resources which ad- 
 vocates the locking up of resources. That has been the inisappre- 
 hension, and it has been attacked — the whole conservation theory 
 has been attacked on the ground that they locked up the resources. 
 A proper understanding of conser^^ation removes any such idea as 
 that. They ought to be opened up; they ought to be used. For 
 years the effort has been made by people in the vicinity of some of 
 these reservations to get some legislation by which it could be done. 
 Of course, there ought to be some return to the Indians who own the 
 land now for any wealth that may be produced by the development 
 of those "lands, and the Secretary of the Interior has provided for 
 that in this regulation that he has made. He proposes to limit it to 
 a 10-year period for mining leases. It seems to me that is rather a 
 short limit for a mining lease for a maximum term. I should think 
 it might be made for a period not to exceed 20 years instead of not 
 to exceed 10 years. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you remember Avhen^ we had the radium bill 
 up before the Committee on Mines and Mining? What I thought 
 was a rather bizarre proposition was then advanced, to the effect that 
 mining rights were never suspended on reservations. I think you 
 and I took the position that it would require an act of Congress to 
 open those lands, and you asserted very strongly that the mining 
 laws were suspended on those reservations. 
 
 Senator Poin dexter. They are suspended. Whatever view the 
 lawyers may have, the fact is that anybody can locate a mining 
 claim there. I am very much afraid it would be impracticable in 
 any reasonable time to get a separate bill passed for the purpose of 
 opening up these lands, and I woiild like very much to see the effort 
 made to attach it to the appropriation bill. 
 
 The Chairman. If you will pardon me, this bill has passed the 
 House with the provision as to leases for mining stricken out. It 
 was in the Indian appropriation bill almost in that form last year, 
 but went out on a point of order. I know that a point of order will 
 be made against it, because I have heard it from Senators on the 
 floor. I presented it this morning, but there was rather a slim at- 
 tendance among the members of the committee this morning. How- 
 ever, if you desire to be heard at any length the committee will be 
 glad to hear you. 
 
 Senator Poindexter. I do not care to be heard at length. It 
 seems to me that the need of legislation on the subject is obvious, 
 and nothing that I can say will enlighten the committee as to the 
 ad'^isability of attaching it to the appropriation bill. jS"ow, let me 
 ask you about this bill as it passed the House. 
 
 The Chairman. The original bill provided that lands mig;ht be 
 leased for mining purposes, but the House committee struck it out 
 and the House agreed to the committee's action. 
 
 Senator Poindexter. That is really the most important question — 
 more important than the matter of grazing or agricultural land. 
 It is not supposed that there is agricultural land in the tribal lands. 
 It is supposed that agricultural land was allotted to the Indians and 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 201 
 
 the surplus opened up to settlement. There is, of course, some agri- 
 cultural land still left, and considerable timberland, but the great 
 pubhc agitation is to get at the minerals. I thinlt the imaginttion 
 of the pubhc has been inflamed somewhat about the amount of min- 
 erals that there are in these reservations, but the very fact that 
 there are valuable mineral deposits there is one reason why some 
 provision should be made for testing it to determine whether there 
 are or not. 
 
 Senator Page. You regard this as a very important matter, do you 
 not — this question of opening up the lands? 
 
 Senator Poindextee. I do. 
 
 Senator Page. And you notice that the administration has really 
 come to the front by moving in tlris matter ? 
 
 Senator PoI^'DEXTEB. In general, yes; not in this particular mat- 
 ter. 
 
 Senator Page. And I call your attention to the fact that Senator 
 Gronna, Senator Page, Senator La Follette, and Senator Clapp 
 are all backing up the administration in this matter, and we have 
 here one Democrat — the chairman — present this morning. 
 
 Senator Poindextee. Emphasize the chairman. [Laughter.] 
 
 Mr. Chairman, all I desire to say at this time is that I desire some 
 action in the matter. 
 
 (Senator Poindexter thereupon withdrew.) 
 
 WAGON ROAD OR HIGHWAY THEOUGII STANDING EOCK INDIAN 
 RESERVATION. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, when we were considering the 
 South Dakota items we practically agreed to the necessity of build- 
 ing a wagon road through the reservation, and Senator Sterling 
 has. pursuant to understanding, submitted the following language : 
 
 For the proportionate share of the amount required to construct a wagon 
 road or highway through the .Standing Kocli Indian Reservation in Corson 
 County, S. Dak., from a point on the Misisouri River north of Pontis, S. Dali:., 
 thence in a northwesterly direction to the town of Tanka, the sum of $5,000, 
 in accordance with the report of the Secretary of tlie Interior of December 7, 
 1914, made in pursuance of the provisions of section 20 of the act entitled "An 
 act making appropriations for the current and contingent expenses of the 
 Bureau of Indian Affairs, for fulfilling treaty stipulations with various Indian 
 tribes, and for other purposes, for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1915," ap- 
 proved August 1, 1914 : Provided, That such sum shall be expended under the 
 direction of the Secretary of the Interior in such manner and at such times as 
 he may deem proper, in" the employnieut of Indian labor for the construction 
 of such road or highway, and that the same shall be reimbursable from the 
 i3tanding Rock Reservation 3 per cent fund, under the act of February 14, 
 1913 (Stat. L., 675). 
 
 I move that it be adopted in that form. 
 
 The Chaiejian. It will be agreed to, in the absence of objection. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not know of any man for whom I would do a 
 personal favor Quicker than for Senator Sterling; he is a personal 
 friend, and I like him very much. I would like to ask Senator Clapp 
 if it is not true that w^e are now making a new departure when we 
 proceed to help build roads which are not on Indian reservations? 
 
 Senator Clapp. "Well, this road is on what was— and in one sense 
 is yet, although held in trust by the Government— a reservation, and 
 I think the benefit to these Indians is well worth the amount we ap- 
 
202 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 propriate. Of course, this is in Senator Sterling's State. I do not 
 desire to be understood as pressing the matter one way or the other, 
 I understood the other day that the committee decided in favor of 
 this proposition but did not adopt the form of the language, and 
 Senator Sterling asked me to present this language, which seems 
 to leave it wholly in the hands of the Interior Department, so I 
 presented it. 
 
 Senator Page. You still do not answer my question. You have 
 been the chairman of this committee for a good many yearg, as I 
 know,, because I have been under you, and you know the practice? 
 and customs ; but is not this a departure, so far as you know — ^build- 
 ing roads at the expense of the Indians outside of Indian reserva- 
 tions ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think it is the first time, probably, that we have 
 ever appropriated money in this way. I think perhaps you are 
 quite right in that. I do not, at least, now recall any instance of 
 this kind. 
 
 The Chairman. The committee did agree to the item. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I am simply complying with Senator Sterling's 
 request to the committee. 
 
 Senator Page. I have nothing further to say. 
 
 The Chairman. We will have Senator Sterling here to-morrow 
 morning, and the matter may be further considered. 
 
 LEASING or AGRICULTURAL AND OTHER LANDS (reSUMEd). 
 
 Senator Jones. Mr. Chairman, I have one or two other matters 
 that I desire to present. I want to say with reference to what Sen- 
 ator Poindexter said regarding the other bill that I agree entirely 
 with him as to the importance of that matter, and I want to say, 
 in so far as the suggestion has been made that western Senators • 
 object to the leasing proposition, that I do not think that applies to 
 Indian reservation lands. I think they are on a different basis from 
 public lands, and whatever my position may be with reference to 
 the leasing of public lands, it would not be the same with reference 
 to Indian lands, because I think they are on a different basis. So I 
 would like to see that legislation, including mining, put on this bill, 
 if possible. 
 
 FEE-SI5IPLE PATENTS 2 5 -TEAR RESTRICTION. 
 
 Senator Jones. Now, Mr. Chairman, I offered an amendment to 
 this bill, as an amendment which covers Senate bill 6660, which 
 reads as follows: 
 
 That patents heretofore issued in the name of Kami Sam — ■ 
 
 There are quite a number of other allottees, giving a description 
 of their lands and closing in this way — 
 
 be, and the same are hereby, ratified and confirmed as fee simple patents with- 
 out restrictions against alienation as of dates of their issuance. 
 
 This bill was referred to a subcommittee. Senator Page was a 
 member of it, and Senator Lane and Senator Myers, I think, and 
 they, I understand, have reported favorably to the full committee. 
 Your committee has not been able to take it up. I was in hopes that 
 it could be put in this bill, because this bill has been reported by the 
 
TSiaXN APPBOPEIAirOK BILL. 
 
 203 
 
 House comnuttee and is on the House Calendar, but there is no pros- 
 pect of reaching It. If your committee should feel justified in re- 
 rtt^Jdl^raS '""^ "^'^"^ '' ' P^^* «^ *^^ biU^ am satisfied 
 
 Briefly, the situation is this: Quite a good many years ago patents 
 were issued to these Indians to their allotments with a Restrictive 
 clause of 25 year^ Then the situation was brought to the attention 
 of the Indian Office, and they concluded that a mistake had been 
 made m the issuance of those patents under that law with the 25-Tear 
 restriction, and they reissued them; they called those patents in, 
 canceled them, and issued new patents under the law which provided 
 for a five-year restriction. That five years has long since run out— 
 a good many years ago. These lands have been sold, and in a great 
 many cases to individuals, in 5, 10, 15, and 20 acre tracts. Thef are 
 around Wenatchee, one of our great apple sections. The lands have 
 been unproved; they are now in orchards; Some of them are prob- 
 ably worth $1,000 an acre, and some question has been raised as to the 
 legahty of the action of the department in calling in the patents first 
 issued and issuing new patents, and this is to confirm, really, the 
 action of the department. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What is the fact about the legality of that 
 action! 
 
 Senator Jones. The department thinks it acted legally. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Have you investigated it? 
 
 Senator Jones. I have not looked up the legal authorities. The 
 raatter has been referred to the department and called to the atten- 
 tion of the department particularly, and they have investigated it 
 pretty carefully, and in their report to this committee they recom- 
 mend this bill, but insist still 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are there any representatives of these In- 
 dians who contend that the department erred in its view of the law 
 at that time ? 
 
 Senator Jones. I have heard of none at all, and the bill has been 
 printed for quite a while. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Whence comes this query as to the validity 
 of the action of the department? 
 
 Senator Jones. It comes from those people who have tried to make 
 loanSj for instance, on some of that property, and attorneys in ex- 
 amining the titles have raised the question and the department had 
 no authority, and the Indian may come in and assert his claim, and 
 there is a cloud on the title. 
 
 Senator Page. This bill will cure the defect ? 
 
 Senator Jones. That is the purpose of it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It seems to me if the attorneys question the 
 validity of that action — if attorneys who have looked at the title and 
 the law question the validity of that action, and there is any question 
 about it, then it is a matter upon which we want some enlightenment. 
 
 Senator Jones. That is the situation. 
 
 Senator La Follette. If these Indians were Indians who ought 
 to have had the 25-year restriction, and because this land was so 
 valuable the Interior Department got its views changed through 
 strong representations made by white people who wanted these 
 valuable lands and was led into error and the Indians wronged 
 thereby 
 
204 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Jones. Certainly, Senator. 
 
 Senator La Follettb. Then I know you would agree with me that 
 that is a matter that we ought to be enlightened upon before taking 
 action. Did your committee go into that, Senator Page? 
 
 Senator Page. Did we not have the facts before us showing that 
 this land had been sold for full prices ? 
 
 Senator Jokes. I think so. I think the department was convinced 
 as to that. 
 
 Senator Page. They showed that there had been no wrong to the 
 Indians. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But if the Indians were not competent to 
 take care of that property, the principle that they should be restricted 
 from being alienated would pertain just as much even though they 
 got the full value of their lands? 
 
 Senator Page. Suppose they had acted in the belief that it was all 
 right and deeds and conveyances of the purchases had been made in 
 good faith for some years. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Suppose they were minors and the law 
 threw around them the protection that it gives to minors against 
 alienating their property, and through some quirk or other, some 
 other law was substituted for it as in this case, and the minors were 
 alienated, do you suppose because they happened to get full value 
 and squandered the value they got that the court would look with 
 any greater favor upon those who had lead to bringing about that 
 transaction? 
 
 Senator Page. I should say in good conscience' that if all the men 
 had acted on the supposition that it was a just law that the depart- 
 ment had decided to be right, and this land had gone on through 
 change after change, it would require a great deal of proof to me that 
 a wrong had been done before I would reopen the whole matter. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But it would not require any proof except 
 simply to establish the fact that a trust had been violated. 
 
 Senator Page. Suppose we take your view about it and should 
 pass this law now and the wrong had been done, would not the court 
 protect the men who had been wronged? 
 
 Senator La Follette. If we pass this law I suppose we will vali- 
 date that action. 
 
 Senator Page. I think that is the point, to validate it, from the 
 study that has been made of it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I should want to know that they were not in 
 error in the department in making a five-year limitation instead of 
 a twenty- five-year limitation ; I would have to know that. 
 
 Senator Page. In good conscience, supposing everything has been 
 done honorably, and there is no claim or question of any fraud in 
 the transaction, would you not think it was a great wrong to those 
 men who had paid their money and a good price for it, to have the 
 whole thing ripped up because the department erred possibly? It 
 may be a question of laAv. 
 
 Senator La Follette. No ; I would not think that any more than 
 in the case of a minor in a deed, and there is no question about what 
 the rule ought to be as to a trustee whose trust is fixed and definite. 
 If that trust is violated the whole transaction fails, and it ought to 
 fail. 
 
IKDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 205 
 
 Senator Page. No, sir ; to my mind it would be mighty bad religion, 
 but good law. 
 
 Senator Jones. I have stated briefly the facts. Of course I would 
 like to have the committee look into the matter. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you know of anybody who is being wronged by 
 the passage of this bill ? 
 
 Senator Jones. J do not. I will say that I do not know anything 
 about these matters personally ; that is, the particular details, with 
 reference to this case. I do not know the territory in which they are ; 
 I laiow that well, and I know the men ; and when they tell me that 
 these lands are all in orchard, I know what that means — it means 
 $1,000 or $3,000 an acre. 
 
 Senator White. Wlio placed that on there? 
 
 Senator Jones. The white people put that on, of course. They 
 made that value. 
 
 Senator White. How long since this patent was issued ? 
 
 Senator Jones. Several years ago — many years ago. 
 
 Senator White. About how many ? 
 
 Senator Jones. I think 12 or 15 or 20 years. If they had been 
 continued as Indian land they would be in practically the same con- 
 dition as they were at that time. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What would their value have been as raw 
 land? 
 
 Senator Jones. Not more than $5 or $10 an acre. The land is 
 absolutely desert. It would not even raise any pasture or water. 
 
 Senator White. And thev are worth $1,000 now? 
 
 Senator Jones. More— $2",000 or $3,000 an acre. 
 
 Senator White. Then it looks to me as if a great wrong would be 
 perpetrated to take that away from the minor children of white 
 people who made this value. 
 
 Senator Jones. It would. 
 
 Senator White. And it is in accord with our statute of limitation 
 that goes to quieting titles that this provision is asked for ? 
 
 Senator Jones. Yes. I think the showing was made to the de- 
 partment that the Indians did receive the full value of the land at 
 
 the time. • i q 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you know how much they received « 
 Senator Jones. No ; I do liot. Possibly the department can state 
 as to that. . 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you know, Mr. Meritt ^ ^ n ^, ^ 
 Mr. Meeitt. I would have to look up the records to fand that. 
 Senator Jones. I will say that if any chicanery was used I would 
 Dot approve of it for a minute any more than anyone else. 15ut that 
 is the situation. The lands have passed to probably three or four 
 mesne purchasers, and they have now got them divided up into 5. 
 10, and 15 acre tracts, and some of them possibly have paid $1,000 
 or $500 for the land and put additional improAwents on it. i hey 
 have put it in orchards. So that unless something of this kind is 
 done it might cause very great loss to persons who are absolutely 
 
 Twouid like the committee to look into it very carefully and i^f 
 any member of the committee thinks it ought not to go into the bill, 
 of course I would not ask it to be done. 
 
206 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION" BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. It will be taken up to-morrow morning. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I would like to have a report from the de- 
 partment as to its reasons for changing its views of the law. 
 
 Mr. ^Ieritt. We have submitted reports to this committee on this 
 biU. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Have you submitted the report upon that 
 point? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Not upon that point. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I would like to hear from the department 
 on that, as to why these first patents were recalled and what reason 
 the department had for changing the period of alienation within 
 which alienation might transpire from 25 to 5 years. 
 
 Mr. ^Meritt. I will state that these patents were changed 10 or 15 
 years ago. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I understand that this whole transaction 
 was some years ago. 
 
 'Mr. JNIeeitt. It is the opinion of the department at this time that 
 the white owners now have a legal title to this land, but they find 
 some difficulty in borrowing money on the titles they have. The de- 
 partment has submitted a favorable report on this bill. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It must be the opinion of the department 
 that they not only have a legal title but thej^ had a legal title when 
 they got this land from the Indiajis ; it gave them a legal title when 
 they put the five years' limitation in, but I would like to know their 
 reason for changing the view as to the period of alienation. 
 
 Mr. IMeritt. We have a letter on that subject • 
 
 The Chairman. Suppose you send up the full details. 
 
 ]Mr. Meritt. I will do so. 
 
 SCHOOL, TAKIMA RESERVATION. 
 
 Senator Jones. Here is a matter that I probably ought not to 
 bring before the committe!.\ but this is a bill granting a school dis- 
 trict in the Yakima Indian Reservation about two acres and a half 
 that is now occupied as a public school. It is on the reservation, 
 and I find that the department has not reported on it. Mr. Meritt 
 says he will see that the report comes down to-morrow, and I would 
 like to have the committee consider that. 
 
 Senator White. Is that for an Indian school? 
 
 Sena'tor Jones. Some Indians, I think, can go to the school. I 
 know the Indians go to our public schools on the reservation, but it 
 is really a white school — just a public district school under the 
 public-school system. Some of the Indians can go. So I will wait 
 until the department reports upon it. 
 
 LANDS rOR THE STATE HISTORICAL SOCIETY. 
 
 Senator Jones. There is one other matter that I desire to call to 
 the attention of the committee for consideration before you get 
 through with the bill. I shall not take your time again. It is a bill 
 granting to the State Historical Society, I think, about 30 acres of 
 land at the appraised value, on the old Astor site of the Corville In- 
 dian Reservation. We passed the bill through the Senate in the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 207 
 
 other Congress, and I would like to get that on this bill. I have not 
 a copy o± it as it passed here, because the only copy is in a bound 
 volume, and I had a copy of it made the other day and that is in my 
 omce. i will ask to present that in the morning. 
 (Senator Jones was thereupon excused.) 
 
 NOETH DAKOTA. 
 
 The Chairman. We will now revert to North Dakota, as Senator 
 Gronna is present. Do you care to take up North Dakota now ? 
 Senator Geonxa. It is satisfactory to me. 
 
 SIOtTX OF DEV1L8 LAKE. 
 
 The Chairman. The item reads as follows : 
 
 For support and pivllization of the Sioux of Devils Lalie, N. Dais: includine 
 pay of employees, $5,000. 
 
 That is in accordance with the estimate in last year's appropriation. 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 ilr. Meritt. The House left out one item, which reads as follows : 
 
 " For support and civilization of Indians at Fort Berthold Agency, 
 in North Dakota, including pay of employees, $15,000." 
 
 The Chairman. That item has been carried in the Indian bill for 
 a number of years? 
 
 Mr. jMeritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. That is the amount estimated for? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes; and it is justified on page 222 of the House 
 hearings. A point of order was made on this item on the floor of the 
 House, as well as a number of other support items. They were 
 ullowed by the House committee, but left out of the bill by a point 
 of order. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 TURTLE mountain BAND OF CHIPPEWAS, NOETH DAKOTA. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 25, line 21, as follows : 
 
 For support and civilization of the Turtle Mountain Band of Ctiippewas, 
 North Daliota, including pay of employees, $11,000. 
 
 That is in accordance with the estimates and last year's appropria- 
 tion. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we approve that item. 
 
 The Chairman. The item will be agreed to, in the absence of ob- 
 jection. 
 
 INDIAN school, BISMARCK, N. DAK. 
 
 The Chahiman. The next item is on page 25, line 24, as follows : 
 For support and education of 100 Indian pupils at the Indian School, Bis- 
 marck, N. Dak., Including pay of superintendent, $18,200; for general repairs 
 and improvements, $2,000 ; In all, $20,200. 
 
208 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Page. That is in accordance with the House provision and 
 the estimates, and. I move it be approved. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I wanted to be heard on that item. 
 
 I have several letters on that subject, but I have one from the Com- 
 mercial Club in Bismarck, and I feel I ought to ask to have these 
 statements inserted in the record. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, before you commence, is this a matter that 
 has been estimated for? 
 
 Senator Geonna. No ; I think not. 
 
 Senator Page. And is adding to the amount we appropriate in this 
 section here? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. It will go out, then, on a point of order, will it not, 
 if some one should make the point? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Of course I can not speak for the department, 
 but my opinion is that there will be no objection by the department; 
 at least I hope there will be no objection. 
 
 This is a letter dated November 13, 1914, addressed to myself, and 
 reads as follows : 
 
 The Commercial Club, 
 Bismarck, N. Dale, Novemlier 13, 19H. 
 Hon. A. J. Gronna, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. C. 
 
 Dear Sir : This organization has been loolfing over affairs in connection with 
 the United States Indian School and have had a committee who have gone over 
 the affairs of the institution and who have made certain suggestions relative to 
 its improvements. 
 
 In the first place the school is badly crowded; the rated capacity is for 60 
 pupils and there are now 94 in attendance. The schoolroom, dining room, and 
 other departments are ample for a much larger school, but dormitory space is 
 lacking, and a cottage for the employees. There should be built at once a boys' 
 dormitory and a home for the employees that would cost in the neighborhood 
 of $35,000. This would segregate the boys and girls in different buildings and 
 allow for a hospital room and would give the employees, who are now crowded 
 in the basement, proper quarters. 
 
 We are writing you at this time to ask your attention to this matter with 
 a view to an appropriation that will permit of at least the erection of these two 
 buildings. 
 
 The last available report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs reveals the fact 
 that the State of North Dakota has 1,154 eligible Indian scholars unprovided for 
 by schools on the reservation and more than 600 of these did not attend any 
 school during the year 1913. In other words, -practically all of these 600 are 
 nearer to Bismarck than any other nonreservation school. They can, as a whole, 
 be transported to Bismarck more cheaply than to any other school. Bismarck, 
 as you know, is nearer the center of the three large reservations in the State 
 and, it is not only just to the children themselves that they should be given 
 facilities, but to the people of North Dakota with whom they will live during 
 the balance of their lives. 
 
 The $35,000 will provide dormitory space for 100 more children in this school 
 and we believe that this will cut down the per capita expense of running the 
 school. For instance, one matron can attend to 100 boys and another to 100 
 girls, but one matron can not attend to 25 boys and 25 girls. It will take two 
 matrons for a school of 50 as well as for a school of 200. One seamstress cau 
 manage a school of 200 and one teacher can teach an agricultural class in the 
 same school, but one teacher could not teach sewing and farming in a school 
 ever so small ; so it is all along the line with the other employees. 
 
 If it is possible to increase the appropriation for this school, we ask your co- 
 operation, for we believe that with this comparatively small additional expense 
 enough more pupils may be taken care of here to warrant it. 
 Thanking you for this and other assistance in the past, I am, 
 Yours, truly, 
 
 F. L. OoNKLiN, President. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 209 
 
 I want to read another letter from the school physician dated 
 November 14, 1914. This is addressed to John S. Spear superin- 
 tendent, Bismarck, X. Dak., and reads as follows: ' 
 
 Th15 COMJlIKUCIAr. Or.UB. 
 
 Bismaick, IV. Diik., XoicJiiher IS, I'.n'i 
 Hon. A. J. Gronna, 
 
 United States Senate. Wusliiiit/toi}. D. C. 
 Dear Sir: A few djiys ago we wrote you relative to ueeded buildings at the 
 United States Indian school here. I now hand you herewith a copy of a letter 
 from the school physician which explains itself and trust that von will take 
 this into consideration with the other data already handed .vou "in order that 
 some action may be taken in behalf of this school. 
 Yours, truly, 
 
 F. L. CoNKLiN, President. 
 
 I know Dr. Smyth rery well. He is one of the high-class phy- 
 sicians of our State. I am quite sure he would not make a recom- 
 mendation unless conditions were exactly as he has presented them. 
 
 I feel that I want to read a letter and the report made by a com- 
 mittee from the Commercial Club. I do not want the committee to 
 be impatient because I am taking your time. It reads as follows : 
 
 Bismarck, K Dak., Xorember IJ,, 1914. 
 Mr. John S. Speab, Siiperintejident. 
 
 Bismarck. A'. Dak. 
 
 Dkae Sir: I beg to call your attention to some conditions in connection with 
 the medical service of the school that are dangerous to the health of the 
 pupils and employees. 
 
 There is absolutely no provision for segregating sick pupils — not even con- 
 tagious cases — from well pupils. At present we have 15 pupils — 6 boys and 
 7 girls — sick with measles. I'.y utilizing two reading rooms and one em- 
 ployee's bedroom we have managed to sep.-irate the pronounced cases, but 
 incipient cases and suspects have to be liept in the general dormitories, which 
 are overcrowded at all times. In one of the dormitories we have a case of 
 pneumonia and a ease of erysipelas. The case of pneumonia followed measles 
 and was probably due to the patient being discharged too soon, to make' room 
 for new patients. In addition, there are several cases of septic sore throat 
 which ought to be isolated but have to be kept in the dormitories. 
 
 Cases of trachoma, abscesses, some tubercular, minor surgery, and dress- 
 ings of all kinds have to be attended to in the dormitories, sitting rooms, halls, 
 or wherever for the time being is most convenient. 
 
 The drugs, for dispensing, and medical supplies of all kinds are kept in a 
 dark, unfinished basement, without a floor, under the superintendent's residence. 
 
 I would recommend that sutBclent dormitory space be provided to accommo- 
 date all well pupils without overcrowding ; that a properly equipped hospital 
 be provided with provisoin for isolating contagious cases, and a suitable room 
 for minor surgery and dressings; and that a suitable dispensary, which could 
 be in the hospital, be set aside for the examining of ambulatory cases and the 
 keeping of drugs and medical supplies. 
 
 Yours, very truly, , ^ 
 
 F. R. Smyth, M. D. 
 
 School pUiisirlan. 
 
 Bismarck, N. Dak., Decemher 15, 1914. 
 Hon. A. J. Gronna, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 Dear Sir : We are inclosing herewith a copy of a report made by our speci^al 
 committee who examined the Bismarck Indian School. You will find that the 
 report quite carefully covers the ground as to the conditions of the buildings 
 and surroundings and shows plainly that additional buildings are required, 
 not only to care for additional future students, but to properly ^are for those 
 already there, to say nothing of giving proper facilities for the management 
 of the school. 
 
 82833— TOL 1—15 14 
 
210 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 This report is aiade to furtlier explain to you tlie necessity of the corre- 
 spondence already had with you by our Mr. Conkliu. We hope that you will 
 give the report your careful consideration and that at the proper time you may 
 be able to obtain a suitable appropriation to make the additions required, as 
 shown in the report. 
 
 Thanking you for your attention in this matter and for your many past 
 favors, we remain. 
 
 Yours, very truly, 
 
 BiSMAEOK COMMEECIAL ClTJB, 
 
 F. E. YouNS, Secretary. 
 
 As a committee from the Bismarck Commercial Club, we visited the Govern- 
 ment Indian School for the purpose of getting all the information we could 
 regarding this institution. This school is located a mile and a half from the 
 center of Bismarck. Upon arriving at the ground we were struck with the 
 natural beauty and the adaptability of the location for such a school. The 
 buildings are on the bank of the Missouri River and about 50 feet above high- 
 water mark. The grounds are comparatively level, but sloping somewhat to- 
 ward the south, making the natural drainage perfect. This gives an ideal 
 sewer drainage, too. By the way, the sewer system at this school is as nearly 
 perfect as it could well be. The grounds are well laid out ; the buildings well ar- 
 ranged on the grounds, connected with concrete walks and cinder drives; scores 
 of trees have been planted and are growing splendidly, and shrubbery of various 
 kinds and vines are in evidence in many places; evidences of flower beds were 
 plainly visible, though it was in early winter. Th6 beauties of nature have 
 been supplemented with the skill, thought, and industry of those in charge. 
 The buildings are all of light-colored brick. They are comparatively new, 
 and are kept in splendid repair. We looked particularly for any small defects 
 which are so often noticeable in public and other buildings, but failed to notice 
 any. Evidently the construction was well done in the first place, and the build- 
 ings are looked after carefully at all times. After being so favorably impressed 
 with the outside surroundings, we were greatly surprised upon calling upon the 
 superintendent to find his " office " in one crowded corner of the mess dining 
 room. We would suppose that it is impossible to work in comfort in such an 
 oflice. There is no privacy, as it is accessible at all times by employees and 
 pupils, and the ordinary work of a dining room is going on while the superin- 
 tendent Is at work. Office furniture is also primitive and inadequate; the 
 lighting is poor and the noise from the adjoining kitchen is far from pleasant. 
 In surprise we asked the superintendent why an office had never been pre- 
 pared for him. He said there was a comfortable office room in the girls' dor- 
 mitory, but that he had literally been crowded out of it to increase dormitory 
 space. He added that, of course, he could occupy it at any time, but that 
 would mean that a half dozen girls would have to go back to the reservation, 
 where there were no available school facilities for them. While it was always 
 uncomfortable, often annoying, and sometimes decidedly embarrassing to use 
 such a place for an office, he was living in hopes of better things. The em- 
 ployees' building, in which this so-called office is located, bears evidence of 
 the same care inside as outside. It is a substantial building and well arranged 
 for its purpose, but we were told that it was overcrowded — two people occupy- 
 ing one small room in almost every case. 
 
 We next went to the "big building," in which are located the sewing room, 
 dining room, kitchen, sitting rooms, playrooms, dormitory rooms, etc., for both 
 boys and girls. On going into the sewing room we saw a large class of girls 
 engaged in sewing, knitting, darning, and patching. We were shown some of 
 the work done by these girls, which we would' say would be a credit to any 
 girl in our city schools. But here, again, everything was crowded. We would 
 say that there should be twice the amount of space given to this work to 
 have the girls comfortable and things convenient. AVe looked into the girls' 
 sitting room, which at that time was filled with beds containing measles 
 patients — the only place for segregating sick pupils. There is absolutely no 
 jilace prepared especially for sick pupils. The dormitory rooms were models of 
 neatness and cleanliness. Only single beds are used, and it is not easy to 
 overcrowd a dormitory, but we are sure the limit was reached, as there was 
 no waste floor space. The clothes rooms of the children are in the attic of 
 this building. When a girl wants to change her clothes she simply has to 
 climb a ladder to the attic, get one suit from a nail driven in a rafter, change 
 her clothes, and hang the other suit on the same or another nail. This is un- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 211 
 
 doubtedly better than no eancatiou, but we tbink It might and should be im- 
 proved. In the kitchen and dining room there is ample room for all the 
 children here, and more. 
 
 We next visited the schoolhouse. This is a somewhat newer building than 
 the others, and the one that is not overcrowded. The assembly hall will accom- 
 modate about 200, and with sdme small changes the schoolrooms could accom- 
 modate a like number. \V(? were greatly interested in the work of the school 
 
 In the barnyard we saw n fine dairy herd, and were told that this school is 
 speciaUzing along the line of dairying. This is evidently the part of wisdom, 
 as the school farm is well adapted for this industry aud there is nothing better 
 for the boys and girls to learn. North Dakota is "fast becoming a great dairy 
 State, and it is a most excellent idea to have the Indian boys and girls to learn 
 what they can along this line. It is hoped to Iiave a silo here before another 
 year. We noticed, too, that more prairie land had been broken out very re- 
 cently, and were told that it was hoped to hisve an alfalfa field soon. The 
 superintendent was full of other plans of increasing the usefulness of the school. 
 He is not strong on the frills and furbelows that have brought some other 
 schools into prominence (some of which are not very favorable), but seems 
 to know the Indian perfectly— what he needs, what he wants, and what he 
 should have. We feel sure that if it were known just what this school is 
 doing that even the most bitter opponents of nonreservation schools would see 
 that all nonreservation schools should not be classed together, but that there is 
 a difference. W^e left with a very strong conviction that ii: the Government 
 will only do its part that this can be made one of the very best schools in the 
 service. 
 
 What this school needs and what should be provided at this session of Con- 
 at a cost of $5,000. This would relieve all congestion and provide accommoda- 
 gress is a dormitory to cost not less than $20,000 and a cottage for employees 
 at a cost of $5,000. This would relieve all cengestion and provide accommo- 
 dations for many more pupils. This should be Insisted upon and no com- 
 promise accepted. 
 
 Senator Geoxna. My colleague, Senator McCumber, offered an 
 amendment, No. 213 on our calendar. 
 
 Senator Page. Before you proceed with that, Senator Gronna, 
 unless it pertains to the same matter here, I would like just for a 
 moment to have Mr. Meritt tell why these conditions exist there, be- 
 cause they seem upon the face of them to be bad, worse than I had 
 supposed existed in Indian schools. 
 
 Senator Geonka. I intended to ask the commissioner, of course, 
 for an explanation. But before that, if you will kindly permit me, 
 T wanted to state what the amendment is. 
 
 Senator Page. Is that germane to this matter you have been dis- 
 cussing now? 
 
 Senator Geoxna. Yes. 
 
 Senator McCumber's amendment is as follows: 
 
 At the end of the paragraph for supi»^rt Mid education of Indian Pnpils at 
 the Indian Fchool at Bismarck, N. Dak., strike out the words m all, $20,200. 
 and insert in lieu thereof " for new dormitory, $20,000 ; for cottages tor em- 
 ployees, $5,000; in all, $45,200." 
 
 Senator Page. You add $25,000 to the present appropruttion pro- 
 posed by the department and by the House ? 
 
 Senator Geoxna. Yes. i j. • -v.? 
 
 Senator White. Senator, is that a tribal school, or what is it« 
 
 Senator Geoxxa. It is a nonreservation Indian school. 
 
 Senator White. You mean that it is on the reservation ^ 
 
 Senator Geoxxa. Xo; it is not on the reservation, but it is close to 
 
 two Indian reservations. tvt j-- « i r'^-iroT-n 
 
 Senator White. Is the school supported by the National Govern- 
 
 ment? 
 
212 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Entirely so. 
 
 Senator White. At what point is it? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Bismarck, the State capital. 
 
 Senator White. How far is it from the reservation ? 
 
 Senator Geonna. It is very close to the Standing Rock Reserva- 
 tion. That is a very large reservation. And it is not very far from 
 the Fort Berthold Reservation. 
 
 Senator Page. It is an exclusive Indian boarding school, Senator? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Yes. The commissioner can explain it more 
 fullv and better than I conld. 
 
 Senator White. That is more accessible, you think, than other 
 points for the reservations? 
 
 Senator Page. There are other Indian schools in North Dakota. 
 This is only one of them. 
 
 Senator White. I asked you if this was as acceptable as other 
 schools to the people it proposes to serve? 
 
 Senator Geonna. It would be for Fort Berthold and Standing 
 Rock. 
 
 Senator White. Have you enough pupils there for it ? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Oh, yes; they are turning them away. If the 
 Commissioner will kindly give us his opinion of it I will be glad. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, the Bismarck Indian School has not 
 been built up like other reservation schools in the last 10 years, for 
 the reason that Commissioner Leupp, when Tie was Commissioner, 
 tried to abandon this school. He thought that the school was not 
 properly located, and the department has not asked for buildings 
 for this school as it has for other nonreservation schools. It has 
 been allowed to run down because the superintendent of that school 
 received a salary of $1,300 and we have not gotten the service that 
 we ought to have gotten for a large nonreservation school. The 
 former superintendent has resigned within the last six months and 
 another superintendent has been transferred there. The school at 
 this time is overcrowded. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Might I interrupt you for a moment to in- 
 quire what have been the views of other Commissioners since Mr. 
 Leupp, and perhaps before Mr. Leupp's time, as to the advisability of 
 maintaining that school? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Commissioner Valentine shared the views of Mr. 
 Leupp. 
 
 Senator La Follei'te. Of his predecessor ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. This administration believes that the time 
 has not arrived when we should abandon our nonreservation schools. 
 There are probably 7,000 or 8,000 Indian children without school 
 facilities at this time, mostly in the Southwest among the Navajo 
 Indians. But as long as we have not now capacity for all the Indian 
 children, we do not believe we should abandon any of the Indian 
 schools. We could utilize the dormitory there to advantage. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was that the attitude of the Indian Office 
 toward this Bismarck and other nonreservation schools? Did that 
 originate with Mr. Leupp, or had it been the position of the Indian 
 Office before ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I am not particularly informed as to the views of the 
 Commissioners before Mr. Leupp. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 213 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was the Bismarck school treated by Mr 
 Leupp during his administration the same as other nonreservation 
 schools, or did that receive for some reason or other a different and 
 more drastic application of the rule? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. He did not submit estimates, I believe, for the school 
 for one or two years. 
 
 Senator La Follette. For this particular school? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. For this particular school. 
 
 Senator La Follette. ^Vas it the same with respect to all other 
 nonreservation schools, or did he just single out this school for that 
 sort of treatment ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. He singled out this school. There were one or two 
 other nonreservation schools that he thought it might be advisable 
 to abandon, but this school in particular he declined to submit esti- 
 mates for on one or two occasions. 
 
 We can utilize this new dormitory to advantage at this school. I 
 think it will more nearly balance the plant. As it is now the plant 
 is not properly balanced. With a little more dormitory space we 
 could materially increase the capacity of the school, and it would be, 
 I think, good administration and a good business proposition for the 
 Government to build this dormitory in view of the fact that they 
 have now already a plant established that will provide for probably 
 25 or 30 more pupils at this school by the building of dormitory 
 space. 
 
 Senator Page. xVnd the dormitory space will cost about $25,000? 
 
 Mr. IMeeitt. It is estimated it v.ill cost around $25,000. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator Gronna has the map there. Will you please 
 point out, Senator, where that is ? 
 
 Senator Geoxxa. This [indicating] is the State of North Dakota. 
 Here [indicating] is Bismarck where the school is located. Here 
 [indicating] is Fort Bertholdt Reser\ation, right up along the river. 
 
 Senator Page. Is there any school at Fort Berthold ? 
 
 Senator Geonna. None whatever. 
 
 Senator LaFollette. "\Miat distance is that? 
 
 Senator Geonxa. That, I should say, would be about 50 or 60 miles. 
 Then to the south of it, right in here [indicating] is one of the larg- 
 est reservations in the West, the Standing Rock Eeservation. 
 
 Senator LaFollette. Has that any school? 
 
 Senator Geoxxa. No. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have day schools on those reservations, but no 
 nonreservation schools. 
 
 Senator Page. Do not the day schools do good work? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. This school is located almost half way be- 
 tween two large reservations, the Fort Berthold and the Standing 
 -TvOck IvGSPrvn tions 
 
 Senator Page. Does this school give a higher grade of education 
 than the day schools ? 
 
 JjIt* jVTfettt' jl PS sir* 
 
 Senator Page. If you were to increase this class of schools at any 
 point in North Dakota you would do it in Bismarck, would you 5 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I would not like to answer that m the attirmative, be- 
 cause they claim this school is located on the river and tor that 
 reason it is not a healthful location. That was one of the strong 
 
214 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 reasons submitted bj' Commissioner Leupp. I h;ive never \isited 
 this school, and Senator Gronna would be more competent to answer 
 that question than I would. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I should like to know what theory they base that 
 on. It is on high land there, and you can see 40 miles in every 
 direction. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I would say, of my own knowledge, that I have 
 been on the place, and I do not loiow of a more healthy place in 
 North Dakota than right there. The Missouri Eiver has the finest 
 water of any river in the world, the purest water, and this is well 
 drained. "We have acres of land there that were given to the school 
 by the Northern Pacific Railroad; that is, it was given to them for 
 $1 an acre, just to give them a deed of the land. 
 
 Senator Eobinsox. They have land which they own there? 
 
 Senator Geonna. One hundred and fifty acres. 
 
 Senator Eobixson. Have they industrial activities at that school? 
 
 Senator Gronna. Yes; I think the commissioner's report here 
 will show that they have been very successful even in their farming 
 operations at this school. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Is it a sectarian school? 
 
 Senator Gronna. No; it is not. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is a regular nom-eservation school. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It is a Government school. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Of course the construction of a dormitory 
 there as contemplated by this amendment ^^'ould also contemplate a 
 permanent policy of retaining the school. It would reverse the 
 policy of Commissioner Leupp essentially? 
 
 Senator Gronna. Oh, absolutely. I can not understand v.'hy any- 
 one vlio is in favor of economic and good business administration 
 among the Indians should say that is not a favorable location for a 
 school. It is right up against two of the great reservations in our 
 State. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. It is about midway between them. " Eight up 
 against them," is not an accurate statement. 
 
 Senator Page. You have another very large school which takes 
 the bulk of the Indians in your State ? 
 
 Senator Geonna. We have another school at Wahpeton, a very 
 good school, and then still another school at Fort Totten. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. How many pupils are there in this school ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. There are 94 in attendance. 
 
 Senator White. They come from both reservations ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. They do not seem to be very well patronized. 
 
 Senator Gronna. There is only room for 60. They have more 
 than they ought to have. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I can explain the history of that matter. Some 
 years ago, perhaps 10 or 12 years ago, there began to develop the 
 thought of the gradual abolition of these nonreservation schools, and 
 it was shared in by a good many besides Commissioner Leupp. This 
 school being off on the Missouri there and a good deal of effort cen- 
 tering on the Wahpeton School, this school was sort of picked out as 
 one that might be dropped out, and just hung onto in a way, and 
 finally let go of. But experience has demonstrated, I think, the un- 
 wisdom of that policy. I think now it is the opinion of everyone that 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 215 
 
 instead of letting these schools go that for a great many years at least 
 we will need them. But that disposition of some years ago to aban- 
 don these schools, and this being sort of tacitly taken as on§ to be 
 abandoned, accounts for the somewhat dilapidated condition of the 
 school both as to facilities and everything dlse. I think we ought to 
 restore it and put it on its feet. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What is the present value of the plant 
 there ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The plant is estimated to be worth about $75,000. 
 We have 11 buildings at that school at this time. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator Gronna, will you point out the location on 
 the map of the other two schools? 
 
 Senator Gronna. Mr. Farrar, Senator McCumber's secretary, is 
 here, and he can do that better than I. 
 
 Mr. Faerae. Wahpeton is here [indicating], and Fort Totten 
 there [indicating]. 
 
 ^ Senator Egbinson. Wahpeton is in the southeastern part of the 
 State, and Fort Berthold is rather in the northeastern part of the 
 State? 
 
 Mr. Faeeae. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. Then, railroads run from the southeast to the north- 
 west, do they not? And are there not cross railroads that would 
 take these Indians down here up to one of those schools ? 
 
 Mr. Faeeae. There are railroads that would bring them from this 
 school to here [indicating], but this school is already overcrowded. 
 . Senator Page. How about the Fort Totten School ? 
 
 Mr. Fareae. They would have to come over here [indicating]. 
 That is overcrowded also. 
 
 The capacitv of the Bismarck School is 60, of the Fort Totten 
 School 323, and of the Wahpeton School 200. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I wanted to say that there is a new railroad built 
 - at Mandan, which is right across the river. It runs up north, not 
 up to the reservation, but very close to it. Then there is a new road 
 that runs right across the reservation. That was built last year. 
 
 Senator Page. So they could go back to the Fort Totten School 
 when the new road is built without going out of the way? 
 
 Senator Gronna. They could not get into the school at Fort Tot- 
 ten, because they have a great many pupils there. 
 
 Senator La I<'ollette. They could come out on the reservation? 
 
 Senator Gronna. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. In your judgment, is it better to support another 
 small school than it would be to enlarge the two main schools of 
 your State? 
 
 Senator Gronna. I believe those three schools should all have 
 enough money to enable them to take as many pupils as they can get. 
 There is need of all three schools— Bismarck, Wahpeton, and Fort 
 Totten. 
 
 Senator Page. The Senator knows since he has been on this com- 
 mittee that I have always been liberal in regard to these measures. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Yes; I appreciate that. , , ^ ^i • t 
 
 Senator Page. I am not sure that we are doing the best thing tor 
 the Indian in establishing too many weak schools instead ot having 
 well-conducted, important schools in the States. 
 
216 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Clapp. This school will be strong just in proportion as 
 we make provision for it. There is no doubt about that. 
 
 Senator Gronka. And anyone who lives among the Indians, who 
 knows anything about their characteristics, knows that to send an 
 Indian child far away from home is not beneficial. You want to 
 get them as close to home as you possibly can, because they get home- 
 sick. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are there any Indian children that are not 
 able to get into either of the schools that are now maintained in 
 North Dakota on account of their being overcrowded ? 
 
 Senator Geonxa. There were over 600 unable to get into the school 
 last year. The report shows that — more than 600 pupils. 
 
 Senator La Follette. With this plant here, representing a value 
 of $75,000, and with an increase in the appropriation there of $:2r),000, 
 what additional number of children could be cared for at that school ? 
 
 Senator Geonna. They can increase it to very nearly 200. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Nearly double the present capacity? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Yes; they will double it, and perhaps a little 
 more. 
 
 Senator Page. You would not ask that the appropriation for the 
 general expenses of the school be increased this year, but rather that 
 Ave appropriate this year for a new building, with the idea that next 
 year we will make the appropriation to cover the whole ^ 
 
 Senator Geonxa. Yes. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Was this item estimated for? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. The superintendents of the various nonreser- 
 vation schools requested a great many new buildings, and in order 
 to keep the appropriations down we had to eliminate from the esti- 
 mates of the superintendents a large number of items. The superin- 
 tendent of that reservation estimated for this item, but in pursuance 
 of the policy to eliminate as much new construction as possible we 
 did not include it in our estimates. The efficiency of this school 
 would be very materially increased by providing this dormitory. 
 It will not increase the school's capacity to 200, as was stated, but 
 would increase it probably between 100 and 125. We now have a 
 capacity of 60, an average attendance of 87, and an enrollment of 
 112. With this new dormitory Ave could probably take care of 125 
 pupils at that school. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Hoav large are the other schools in North 
 Dakota as compared with that school? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The other schools are larger. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes ; I understood they were. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. At the Fort Totten school we have over 325. 
 
 Senator Page. And the Wahpeton? 
 
 Mu Meeitt. At the Wahpeton there are over 200 pupils. 
 
 Senator Geonna. If you leave out anything, I suggest you leave 
 out the cottages for the employees and give us the $20,000. 
 
 The Chaieman. For the new dormitory? 
 
 Senator Geonna. For the new dormitory. 
 
 The Chairman. Then you are willing the item for cottages for 
 employees should go out? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Yes. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 217 
 
 Senator Page. I think you had better do that, because you are 
 f^l^o^^r.n^'"''^ trouble with this, -anyway. I move the adoption of 
 the $20,000 amendment. ^ 
 
 The Chaibman. It will read as follows, then : 
 
 For support and education of 100 Indian pupils at the Indian school Bis- 
 marclf, N. Dalv., includins pay of superintendent. $18,200; for "eneral renairs 
 and improvements, $2,000 ; for new dormitory, $20,000 ; in all, $40,200. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I Avauted to ask the commissioner if, in his judg- 
 ment, he does not believe we ought to increase the salary of that 
 superintendent to $1,500? 
 
 Mr. Meriti'. Xot the salary of that superintendent; no, sir. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Is there not a new one at the present time? I 
 thought you had a new superintendent there now. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes; we have a ncAv superintendent, but I do not 
 beheve tlie office would be disposed to increase his salary. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Very well. 
 
 fort TOTTEN INDIAN SCHOOL, EOET TOTTEN, N. DAK. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 26, line 3, as follows : 
 
 For support and education of 400 Indian pupils at Fort Totten Indian School. 
 Fort Totten, X. Dak., and for pay of superintendent, $RS..")00; sinking wells 
 and making improvements of the water system, $5,000 ; for general repairs and 
 improvements, $5,000 ; In all. $78,500. 
 
 That is considerably above the estimates. 
 
 Senator White. I should like to ask one question. It pertains to 
 this as well as to a great many other items. Why is it that the ap- 
 propriation is made to include two separate items instead of having 
 them separated? It occurs to me that the pay of the superintendent 
 ought to be separated, or the pay of the employees should be sepa- 
 rated from the amount expended on the school, so that the public 
 and we would know how much was going for salaries and how much 
 was being expended really for the school. 
 
 The Chairman. I will give you the best answer that I may. In 
 1913 and 1914 that matter was the subject of a great deal of learned 
 discussion by various members of this committee. I remember that 
 aU the members of this committee participated in the discussion. 
 It was thought that the bill ought to recite the amount of each salary 
 and for what expended. After considerable discussion, lasting a 
 week, this present method was again resorted to.^ For the informa- 
 tion of Senators the department has inserted in these hearings a 
 statement showing what the salaries are and how much is expended 
 for salaries. The committee, I think, came very nearly adopting 
 the policy of inserting in the bill what each particular item was for, 
 how much for salaries, and so forth, but we concluded we would have 
 a bill of such enormous volume that it would require a dray to get it 
 into the Senate Chamber. 
 
 Senator Page. The justification of the department gives that. 
 
 Senator White. Mr. Meritt can just state it to me without reading 
 it. I thought it ought to be separated, but that may be a very good 
 idea in combining it. 
 
218 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are occasionally required to make changes at the 
 agencies, transferring one superintendent to an agency and trans- 
 ferring the former superintendent to another agency, because of ad- 
 ministrative reasons. It is inadvisable from an administrative stand- 
 point for the Congress to establish a salary for each superintendent, 
 because that superintendent v?ould begin to use political influence to 
 get his particular salary increased. When it is allowed in a lump 
 sum in connection with the support of the school we can keep those 
 salaries more equal and in accordance with the amount of work 
 done, and without regard to political influence. 
 
 We set out the salaries in the hearings, showing the salary of each 
 employee of the school; and in connection with the Fort Totten 
 School 
 
 Senator White. One moment right there. That gives the bureau 
 the power to make salaries different for different men at the same 
 place ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; we only have one superintendent at a school. 
 
 Senator White. I understand; but 1 imderstood you to say you 
 might want to shift a man there at a higher salary or a lower salary. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The administration of a school may be weak, and it 
 may be necessary in order to build up that school, from an adminis- 
 trative standpoint, to send a stronger man there than was formerly 
 there. It may be necessary to increase that salary in order to get a 
 stronger man. 
 
 Senator White. I say that the department has the power to in- 
 crease the salary at any place, or decrease it? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have the authority, but we are limited, of course, 
 by the appropriation for this school. 
 
 Senator White. I understand that you can take it off the other 
 matters in the appropriation and give it to the superintendent. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We can do that, but we have respected very scrupu- 
 lously the wishes of the committees of Congress in regard to increas- 
 ing salaries. We have kept the salaries down just as far as we could 
 and retain good men in the service. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you not think that is the only possible way to 
 conduct any business, to gi^-e to the executive the power to admin- 
 ister as he finds it necessary to administer from time to time? 
 
 Senator White. That is right. Senator, if it is his own affair 
 where he is paying the money, but I do not think that discrimina- 
 tion should exist where he is using somebody else's money. Favor- 
 itism might be shown. 
 
 Senator Page. On the other hand, you might say that if any large 
 business, with branches at different sections of the country, should 
 not be so administered that the executive officers could transfer the 
 man from one place to another place as the exigencies required it 
 would be bad administration. I think it ought to be left to the 
 department. 
 
 Senator White. I will ask you, just as a business man, is it not a 
 fact that these large business concerns have a fixed salary for each 
 place? Take the Armour Packing Co., for instance. 
 
 Senator Robinson. They change them whenever they want to. 
 
 Senator White. I understand ; but is it not a fact that they have 
 •d salary fixed for the place rather than the man ? 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 219 
 
 Senator Page. No, sir; they have an executive force and they 
 transfer a man from one place to another as they think it wise. For 
 instance, some department is showing bad at some points. It is not 
 making a profit. They take a man from that point and put him in an 
 .inferior position, or discharge him, and transfer a strong man to the 
 point that is weak. 
 
 Senator White. I miderstand that, but I think they have a salary 
 for each place. 
 
 Senator Page. Oh, no; it could not be so. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Senator, a year ago it was decided by the 
 committee here after a good deal of discussion that as a sort of check 
 upon any abuse of this large discretion that is- given the department 
 they should report to us, in what is called their justifications, just 
 how much they do pay out for these various superintendents, and if 
 they are varying the amounts from time to time ^\e would have an 
 opportunity to see it and call on them to ex])lain their reasons why. 
 It was thought that would be a check against abuse, and at the same 
 time would give them a wide latitude that the administrator of a 
 large business ought to have in order to get the greatest efficiency. 
 
 Senator White. I did not have any opposition to the matter espe- 
 cially, but it was a matter that I wanted to understand. If the com- 
 mittee has decided upon that policy, and Congress has, I suppose it 
 has some reasons for it. There are some reasons against it, however. 
 
 The Chaieman. I should like to ask why did the House go above 
 the estimate? That is the first instance I have found where they 
 have done so. Why did they do that? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We found after the estimates had been submitted 
 that the water supply of this school was gradually becoming inade- 
 quate on account of certain springs going dry. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Those springs were drying up, I suppose? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. A Member of Congress from that State had 
 inserted this item : " Sinking wells and making improvements of the 
 water system, $5,000." The office and department was heartily in 
 favor of that amendment. 
 
 Senator Gronka. I have an amendment that I want to offer ask- 
 ing for an increase of the $5,000. I suppose that is the $5,000 the 
 commissioner has reference to. I will read my amendment. It 
 reads : 
 
 On page 23, line 25, strike out the words " in all, $73,500," and insert the 
 following: "for improving water system, $5,000; for the construction and 
 equipment of a gymnasium and assembly hall, $25,000; in all, $103,500." 
 
 I offered that amendment at the request of Mr. C. M. Ziebach, 
 superintendent. As I understand it, he is an excellent superintend- 
 ent. Of course, the commissioner knows a great deal more about it 
 than I do, but I have understood that he has been doing satisfac- 
 tory work. With the permission of the committee I want to read 
 a short letter from Mr. Ziebach. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, before you read that let me suggest to you 
 that at one of your two schools in North Dakota a similar amend- 
 ment was offered last year, but not having been estimated tor weiit 
 out on a point of order. If I renaember right I thmk it is the Wah- 
 peton school, but I am not certain. 
 
220 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Well, I do not know whether it was the Wahpe- 
 ton school or not. 
 
 Senator Page. This would go out under a point of order, of course, 
 would it not? 
 
 Senator Geonxa. Xot necessarily. If the department is in favor 
 of it it would not. 
 
 Mr. Mebitt. We would not be in favor of this amendment because 
 Mr. Ziebach has violated the rules of the department in trying to get 
 legislation direct. He submitted his estimates, and we found we 
 could not give him all of his estimates. Now, he has appealed to 
 the committee direct. We feel that we have allowed a reasonable 
 amount for this school as compared with other schools of the service, 
 and we would not ask for more than our estimate except for the new 
 item for water supply, which we approve heartily. 
 
 Senator Geoxna. I shall not ask to have my amendment adopted 
 unless it is agreeable to the commissioner, because he Imows more 
 about it than I do. But I simply wanted to say this, that I feel that 
 the school, in order to properly care for the children of that school, 
 that they need this money and that I should be very glad to see that 
 adopted. But with the statement made by the assistant commissioner 
 that he does not feel that he would like to give his assent to it, of 
 course I shall not press that amendment. But it is absolutely neces- 
 sary to have the extra $5,000 for the improvement of the water 
 system. 
 
 The Chaiema>t. Without objection, the item will be agreed to at 
 $78,500. 
 
 INDIAN SCHOOL, WAHPETON, N. DAK. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 26, line 8, as follows : 
 
 For snpiiort nnd education of 200 Indian pupils at tlie Indian scliool, Wah- 
 peton, N. Dali:.. and pay of superintendent, $35,200; for general repairs and 
 improvements, .$3,000 ; in all, $38,200. 
 
 Senator Geonna. This is the school that is located in Senator 
 McCumber's home, and as Senator McCumber is necessarily absent 
 or away from the city, I have asked his secretary to come over here 
 and explain this, if the committee will kindly give him attention. 
 
 The Chairman. Does the department want the amount of the 
 estimate ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We would like to have the item for the school build- 
 ing, $15,000. That plant has been built up in the last few years, and 
 we find we need an additional school building in order to supply the 
 needs of that school. We estimated for that item, and it is justified 
 in the House hearings on page 231. 
 
 Senator Geonna. If you will permit me to read the amendment 
 which Senator McCumber has offered, I will do so. It reads : 
 
 For the support and education of 250 Indian pupils at the Indian school, 
 Wahpeton, X. Dak., and for pay of superintendent, $41,750 ; for general repairs 
 and improvements, $5,000; for purchase of additional land and fencing for 
 same, $0,500 ; for band instruments, $600 ; for school building and equipment and 
 remodeling the present school building for domestic-science building. $35,000; 
 in all, $88,850. 
 
 That is the amendment proposed by my colleague. 
 The Chairman. What is the position of the department? Do you 
 insist on the $53,200 in accordance with the estimate? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 221 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We would like very much, Mr. Chairman, to have the 
 new item for the school building, $15,000. That is'in accordance 
 ■with our estimates. 
 
 The Chairman. That was the only thing omitted by the House 
 from your estimate ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. If our estimate can be restored we would 
 be very pleased to have it done. 
 
 Senator Page. That fixes the department all right, but Senator 
 Gronna wanted to exceed it. 
 
 The Chaihjian. Now we will hear from Senator McCumber's sec- 
 retary. 
 
 Mr. Fareae. This school, as Mr. Commissioner Meritt under- 
 stands, is one of the large schools. I have here a list of 91 pupils 
 from Indian reservations in Minnesota adjacent to this school. South 
 Dakota adjacent to this school, and North Dakota, who, without any 
 solicitation at all, have applied for entrance to this school, who could 
 not be admitted. If the committee is willing, I would ask, for Sena- 
 tor McCumber, to have this inserted in the record. 
 
 The Chairman. "Without objection, the list will be inserted. 
 
 Senator Geonna. It gives the names of 91 pupils who have been 
 refused admission. It gives their names and addresses. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. On account of insufficient accommodations? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Yes. 
 
 (The list referred to is as follows:) 
 
 William Bimoway, Deer River, Minn. 
 
 Amos R. Frank, Grand Portnge, Minn. (One boy living at Fort William, 
 Canada.) 
 George Campbell, Calloway, Jlinn. (One boy.) 
 Letitia Bird, Wilmot, S. Dak. 
 Josiah Bird, Wilmot, S. Dak. 
 William Hopkins, Peever, S. Dak. 
 
 Mr. Antoine Lavallie, Medicine Lake, Mont. (Two boys, Aatome and Josepli.) 
 Ed. Thompson, Fort Totten, X. Dak. 
 .Tiilia Bercier, Rolla, N. I»:ik. 
 Emmanuel HolsteJn, Akeley, Minn. 
 Charles Holstein, Akeley, ilinn. 
 Gertrude Holstein, Akely, -Minn. 
 Mrs. Mary Hayfleld, Ogema, Minn. (Two gicls.) 
 John Dubuis, Walhalla. >;. Dak. (Two boys.) 
 George Emerson, Lengby, Jlinn. 
 David Auginash, Xaytahwansh, Minn. 
 
 Claudia Broker, Ponsford, Minn. . 
 
 Jh-s. Lillian Bellcourt, AVl:ite Earth, Minn. (One boy and one gul.) 
 Peter Graves, Onigum, Minn, 
 lone Eedearth, Peever, S. Dak. 
 C. Wilkie. Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Jesse S. Hoksina, Fort Totten, N. Dak. 
 Mrs E P W^nkeflelrt, Waiibnn, Minn. (One daughter.) 
 Mrs. Emma Dupuls, White Earth, Minn. (One boy.) 
 Elizabeth Wright, Onigum, Minn. 
 Nancy Ellis, Onigum, Minn. 
 May Aitken, Onigum, Minn. 
 
 Anna Crown, Onigum, Minn. • j.„„ ■> 
 
 Francis Delorme, Belcourt, N. Dak. (One girl, sister.) 
 Joseph W. Bellenger, Onigum, Minn. 
 Frank Lawyer, Onigum, Minn . 
 Mary Lejeune, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Clara Hall, Little Falls, Minn. 
 
 James H. Door, Vineland, Minn. brother ) 
 
 Mrs. Fred Beaulieu, Federal Dam, Mmn. (One boy, brothel.) 
 
222 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Lucas Hill, Yebleu, S. Dak. 
 Peter Nelson, Vebleu, S. Dab. 
 Lawrence Robertson, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 Samuel Williams, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 Elijah Wanna, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 David Wanna, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 Lucilia Thompson, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 Joseph Summers, White Earth, Minn. 
 William Spears, Red Lake, Minn. 
 Amelia St. John, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 Aleck St. John, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 George Fox, Naytahwaush, Minn. 
 Fred St. Arneud, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Earnest Bradford, Dunsieth, N. Dak. 
 David Bonga, Onigum, Minn. 
 Norman Bercier, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Barney Brought, Grand "^^alley, S. Dak. 
 Joseph Durant, Bagley, Minn. 
 Herman Dumarce, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 Benjamin Gourneau, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Thomas Gray Bull, Cannon Ball, N. Dak. 
 Charles Holyman, Fort Yates, N. Dak. 
 Jonas Hisgun, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 Joe Lavadure, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Bernard Mulhern, Cannon Ball, N. Dak. 
 Fidel McCloud, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Gideon Nicholas, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 George Red Fox, Shields, N. Dak. 
 George Sargeant, Menominee, Wis. 
 Fred Sargeant, Menominee, Wis. 
 Arthur Sargeant, Menominee, Wis. 
 Louis Wilson, Browns Valley, Minn. 
 Jessie Blackhawk, Elbowwoods, N. Dak. 
 Mary Belleiiger. Beaulieu, Minn. 
 Ehza P.eltjarde, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Florestine Belgarde, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 .Mbertine Boucher, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Sophia Bellenger, White Earth, Minn. 
 Margaret Crowford, Slsseton, S. Dak. 
 Susan Defender, Fort Yates, N. Dak. 
 Ruth Downwind, Red Lake, Minn. 
 Pauline Fairbanks, Federal Dam, Minn. 
 Caroline Fairbanks, Federal Dam, Minn. 
 JIary Gourneau, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Emily Grambols, Devils Lake, N. Dak. 
 Rosalie Gourneau, Belcourt, N. Dak. 
 Marie King, Odanah, Wis. 
 Daisy Quick, Cass Lake, Minn. 
 Hattie Rogers, Elbowwoods, N. Dak. 
 Laura Robinson, Veblen, S. Dak. 
 Catherine Skiuaway, White Earth, Minn. 
 Marie Waldrop, Boy River, Minn. 
 
 Mr. Faeeae. As I understand, the committee have adopted a pro- 
 vision for $15,000 for an additional building. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. We have not adopted it yet. 
 
 Mr. Faeeae. That was recommended by the department. I am 
 certain that Senator McCumber would defer to the wishes of the 
 department. 
 
 This is my home town and I am well acquainted with the school, 
 and there is one other item that I wished to speak about. There was 
 a little item for some band instruments. I am not certain whether 
 they could pay for them out of their general fund. Mr. Meritt can 
 tell that. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 223 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They could pay for that out of the support fund, pro- 
 vided the support fund could be spared for band instruments. 
 
 Mr. Farrar. And if the committee are willing to put it in I feel 
 the department would have no objection to it. It would encourage 
 that band. ■ That is something the Indians at that school are very 
 proud of, indeed. 
 
 Senator La Folustte. Mr. ]Meritt, are you in favor of music there? 
 
 Mr. MERirr. Yes, sir; we are in favor of music at the Indian 
 schools. It has a good effect on the children. 
 
 Senator Gkokna. I want to say that the Indian band at Fort Tot- 
 ten is the best band in our State and as fine a band as there is in 
 Minneapolis and St. Paul. They are all Indians. 
 
 Mr. Farrar. There is one other item in Senator McCumber's 
 amendment, which proposes to increase the amount for general re- 
 pairs and improvements. As the bill passed the House it gave them 
 $3,000, I believe. I was advised when I was last out there, and was 
 advised here, that $3,000 was hardly sufficient to keep up the general 
 repairs and improvements of this school. But I do not know what 
 the department has recommended on that. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We recommended $3,200 for general repairs and im- 
 provements, and the House gave us $3,000. We are trying to get the 
 superintendefits to utilize the labor of the students in keeping up the 
 repairs of the building as much as possible. On that account we do 
 not allow the request of the superintendents for the repair item. 
 
 The Chairman. What do you think about the item for musical 
 instruments? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are in favor of the appropriation. 
 
 The Chairjian. Without objection, that will be agreed to. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that the item of $15,000 for the school 
 building be restored to the bill. 
 
 The Chairman. If there is no objection, that will be agreed to. 
 
 HEADSTONE FOE SCARLET CROW, SIOUX INDIAN CHIEF. 
 
 The Chairman. That finishes North Dakota. Senator, you have 
 an item for a headstone over the grave of Scarlet Crow, the great 
 Sioux chief, who was buried here. It was in the bill last year and 
 went out on a point of order. The committee approved it last year 
 after some discussion. 
 
 (The amendment is as follows:) 
 
 For the erection of a liendstone to mark the grave of Scarlet Crow a Sioux 
 Indian chief of the Wahpeton Trihe. who was buried March 13, ISfeJ, m the 
 Congressional Cemetery, Washington. D. C, in a grave marked ifa-K. A. ^/, 
 $100. 
 
 Senator Gronna. It went out in conference. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How much is it? 
 
 Senator Gronna. It is $J 00. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there anv objection? ^, . ^i. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I should like to have the record show that the 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs approved it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are in favor of that item. Aci-^^^ 
 
 Senator Gronna. It is for the purpose of purchasing a headstone 
 to mark the grave of an Indian chief who is buried here m Con- 
 
224 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION IBILl.. 
 
 gressional Cemetery. He was a man who was always loyal to the 
 white people. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I have a justification for that. 
 
 The Chairman. That will be inserted in the record. 
 
 Sir. Meritt. The justification reads as follows: 
 
 Scarlet Crow, ;i Sioux Indian, who served as a scout for the United States 
 during the Minnesota massacre, and while in A^'ashiugton, together with others 
 for the purpose of entering into a treat j- with the Government, died on February 
 19, ISOT. His remains were burled at that time in the Congressional Cemetery 
 In this city, but the grave is not marked in any manner. There are no funds 
 under tlie jurisdiction of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for the purpose of 
 providing such a marker. 
 
 In recognition of the valuable services rendered by this Indian and the 
 friendship he bore toward the Government, it is believed that Congress shonld 
 appropriate the sum of $100 for the purpose of erecting a headstone on the 
 grave of this Indian. 
 
 The CHAimtAi^. Without objection, the amendment will be 
 agreed to. 
 
 LANDS WITHDRAWN FROJI ALLOTMENT, CREEK NATION. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Just a few days ago Senator Owen offered an 
 amendment, which was unanimously adopted by this committee, 
 withdrawing from allotment certain lands of the Creek Xation be- 
 cause the lands were valuable oil lands. It appears that there are 
 about five persons who claim to be on the rolls and entitled to allot- 
 ment, and that no provision is made for them. The attorney for 
 the Creek Nation, Judge Allen, is present and has suggested that this 
 proviso be added to the O^ven amendment, as follows : 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to pay each and 
 every citizen of the Creek Kation who has not been allotted lands in said nation, 
 and who were duly, legally, and properly enrolled prior to the enrollment of 
 the list included in Senate Document No. 478, Sixty-third Congress, second 
 session, the sum of $2,080, in lieu of an allotment of land in said nation. Said 
 sum of $2,080 to be paid to each and every such person out of any funds in 
 the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the Muskogee (Creek) 
 Nation. 
 
 The withdra^^al of those lands from allotment will deprive those 
 people of any opportunity to get an allotment, and it is provided 
 in this amendment that they may be paid a cash sum in lieu of the 
 land. That same policy was pursued in the former bill, when a num- 
 ber of Indians were enrolled last Avinter, as you will remember. 
 The amount this gives is $2,080. That is thought to be a liberal 
 sum. 
 
 Senator Cl.vpp. That action at the last session referred to a docu- 
 ment that had a list of names. Does this? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. This refers to all the remainder of the tribe 
 who are legally enrolled and have not been allotted. I am informed 
 by Judge Allen that it only includes five. 
 
 Senator Page. Had you not better insert " not exceeding so many 
 in number " ? It might apply to 10,000. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The reason, I suppose, for not naming them 
 is that some of them may be claiming allotments 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is the point I was getting at. You are liable 
 to have some lawsuits or claims made befdre the committee. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 226 
 
 Mr. Allen. Let me say in justification of this amendment that 
 theie are now in the Creek Nation five persons who claim to be dulv 
 enrolled citizens of the Creek Nation, and who are duly enrolled who 
 claim that they have not recei^'ed an allotment of land. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is your purpose to limit it to that five« 
 
 Mr. Allen. No, sir ; there might be a few others. What I want 
 to do in reserving the public domain of the Creek Nation is to pro- 
 vide that the Secretary of the Interior mav pav $-i,080 to those 
 enrolled citizens, who were enrolled under the former acts of Con- 
 gress, in lieu of an allotment. There can not be any controversy 
 that would arise over that question, because the enrollment records 
 are in the custody of the Secretary of the Interior, and it is easy to 
 determine, when a person applies for this fund, whether or not he 
 is upon the official roll, and whether or not he has been allotted. 
 If he is not on the official roll and has not been allotted, then the 
 Secretary 
 
 TheCHAiRjiAN (interposing). You are the attorney for this nation? 
 
 'Sir. Allen. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. How many do you think this will apply to ? 
 
 Mr. Allen. Five. 
 
 Senator Page. You think there are a few more — that is, that there 
 may be? 
 
 Mr. Allen. Two more. Let me say this: There are a number 
 of allotments down there that we are seeking to cancel on account 
 of duplications and on account of fraud. Three of those allotments 
 that we are trying to cancel would be worth, probably, $5,000,000 
 in the most valuable oil pool in the world. These allottees have been 
 discovered by different oil interests and different attorneys. Gov- 
 ernor Haskell told me not long ago that he has had two more offered 
 to him who have not been allotted, but they will not give me the 
 names, even. They are waiting for a valuable allotment to turn up 
 that they can file this party on, and then take his allotment. 
 
 Senator Page. Would you have any objection to limiting this to, 
 say, not exceeding 20 in all ? 
 
 Mr. Allen. Oh, no; but I do not think there is any necessity for 
 Hmitation. I do not think it could possibly exceed 10. 
 
 Senator Page. Suppose it should be 500 ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. But the records of the Interior Department 
 lixes that now. We ought not to limit it 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That is the very objection to the limitation. 
 If it appears, for any reason, that he has not been provided for, we 
 ought to provide for him. We have withdrawn the land so that he 
 can not take an allotment. 
 
 Senator La Follette. There are just two facts to be settled. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Yes. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And the records settle those facts. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yes; there is only one question to be de- 
 termined by the Secretary of the Interior. That is the question of 
 identification, which he has to determine in the case of everyone who 
 apphes — that is, whether the Indian is the man that he claims to be. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And that he has no allotment? 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yes. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And is enrolled ? 
 
 82833— VOL 1 — 15 15 
 
226 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. You make a very broad bill here when you open 
 the door in that way without any limitation. 
 
 Senator La FoixLETtb. You fix the limitation — the record fixes the 
 limitation. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There are certain complications in connection with 
 this Creek matter, so that I would like to have an opportunity to 
 take that amendment to the oiEce before it is finally passed. 
 
 The Chairman. Very well, we will let it go until to-morrow. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I have not studied this amendment ; but the thing I 
 fear at this time is this: There Avere certain Creek people enrolled 
 last year. They will get $800. If Ave give these people $2,000 and 
 some odd it may open up a claim for those people who were enrolled 
 last year to come in and claim a larger amount. 
 
 NEVADA. 
 
 The Chairman. Senator Pittman, of Nevada, is here. We will 
 take up the State of Nevada next. 
 
 The items under Nevada are as follows : 
 
 " Sec. 10. For support and civilization of Indians in Nevada, 
 including pay of employees, $18,500. 
 
 " For support and education of 250 Indian pupils at the Indian 
 school at Carson City, Nev., including pay of superintendent, 
 $41,700; for general repairs and improvements, $5,000; in all, 
 $46,700." 
 
 Senator Pittman. The only change that I notice there is that we 
 cut down this year the appropriation for repairs. That was $8,000 
 last year. We have cut it from $8,000 to $5,000. But I assume that 
 was in accordance with the estimates, and I raise no objection to that 
 whatever, because if the estimates say there is only $5,000 required 
 it is all right. 
 
 But here is a proposition I do want to present. I want it in the 
 form of an amendment. We have a tribe of Indians in Nevada 
 called the Washoes. There are 300 or 400 of those Indians. They 
 are living there in the neighborhood of Carson City. Most of them 
 are in the Carson Valley, around that section of the country. 
 
 Senator Page. How many of them are there now ? 
 
 Senator Pittman. There are 300 or 400. I would not nttempt to 
 say exactly, but that is about it, is it not, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Pittman. These Indians have been at peace with the 
 whites from the beginning. In the days when they had the Piute 
 Wars^ the Washoes sided with the whites, and aided and assisted 
 them. The result has been that the Piute Indians in that State are 
 bitter against the Washoes. The Piutes have received the assistance 
 and protection of the Government, but the Washoe Indians have 
 never received any assistance or protection whatever. They are the 
 best Indians in our State. They are a splendid, high-class type of 
 Indian. A number of years ago they were granted a little tract of 
 land in the Carson Valley. That land, however, was on the shelf, 
 as we term it in that country. It was not in the valley proper. It 
 was on the slide rock which comes down from the mountains and so 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 227 
 
 it was impossible for agricultural purposes. The Indians were 
 unable there to do anything. These Indians live just from hand to 
 mouth. They will pitch a little bit of a tent around the edge of a 
 town or mining camp. The women will try to get washing and the 
 men will try to^et a job chopping some wood, but it is a very pre- 
 carious living they earn at the outside. They have no reservaiton 
 to H^'e on, and no protection whatever, and it is an outrage. The 
 people of the State are very much interested in that, and have for a 
 long time been trying to do something for them. It is usless to go 
 and appropriate for some public lands unless you can acquire water 
 rights for them. The water rights in that State have been appro- 
 priated, or have been set aside for the Government projects, which 
 places it beyond the reach of the Indian. Those who take the most 
 interest in Indian affairs in our State think the best thing to do is 
 to purchase a tract of real agricultural land, say 100 acres, close to 
 Carson City, with a water right, where these Indians can raise gar- 
 den stuff and chickens, and have a home and a market for their 
 produce. 
 
 I think that as a starter to this proposition, and a trial of it, there 
 should be an appropriation of $10,000 for their civilization and sup- 
 port under the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 Senator Robinson. They have no agency — no superintendent? 
 
 Senator Pittman. None at all. 
 
 The Chairman. They are homeless? 
 
 Senator Pittman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. ^Tiat is there condition now? 
 
 Senator Pittman. They are really living on charity. If it were 
 not for the people around Carson and Gardenville and those little 
 towns around that section there that have a real affection for those 
 people, they would starve to death. For instance, in our State we 
 have a license for hunting and for fishing and that applies to the 
 Indians as well. The Indians have not the money to pay for a 
 license for hunting or fishing. 
 
 Senator Page. They are citizens of your State, are they ? 
 
 Senator Pittjiax. Yes. They have no way of paying for the 
 license. They have met conditions of famine there two or three 
 times, and the old-timers through there have supported them and 
 given them things. They go around to the back doors of the houses 
 in Carson City and get the refuse that is thrown away. It certainly 
 is a condition that should not be allowed to exist. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Would it be your idea, Senator, that some 
 portion of this $10,000 could be expended for land? Would that be 
 a large enough appropriation to make any start on getting them a 
 home? 
 
 Senator Pittman. I think that is the main thing. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What is land worth m this valley near 
 Carson— land suitable for agricultural purposes with water rights? 
 
 Senator Pittman. I do not know, but I believe that a piece of 
 land, say 100 acres, might be purchased at $100 an acre, with water. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Would you not be inclined to specify m 
 your amendment that the money should be expended in the purchase 
 of land? If it is just for subsistence, why is it not likely to get 
 away and be used up ? 
 
228 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Pittman. Yes ; I think that is true. I think the advice is 
 good. 
 
 Senator La Follette. If that was done, a year from now you 
 might have to come back and ask for an appropriation for land. 
 
 Senator Pittman. If it were not asking too much— and I do not 
 think it is — I would prepare an amendment of that kind, providing 
 for the appropriation of $10,000 for the purchase of land with water 
 rights, and, say, $5,000 for the purpose of carrying out that act and 
 furnishing them with the necessary agricultural implements and 
 starting them. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What is their disposition with regard to agri- 
 culture? Are they willing to work — any of them? 
 
 Senator Pittman. Well, yes; but not the kind of agricultural 
 work white men do. You see, originally they did a little agriculture. 
 They do it now where they have not lost their lands. There are 
 springs all around that State called Indian Springs. There a band of 
 100 would settle, and they would raise a little grain around that 
 spring — probably put in 20 or 30 acres. They would work it kind of 
 as a community. They would hunt and fish around there. They 
 would do that at the mouth of the little mountain streams. But 
 the homesteader comes around and buys their possessory right and 
 gives them $100, or something like that, to move off. And then he 
 homesteads it. That process has gone on until there is not a piece 
 of land in the States that they could acquire where they could raise 
 !i garden patch. They will do that character of farming. They will 
 raise a little vegetables; they will raise chickens and things of that 
 kind. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Are they peacefully disposed, or are they 
 warlike ? 
 
 Senator Pittman. No ; they are very peaceful. From the very be- 
 ginning of the settlement of that State they have been peaceable 
 Indians. 
 
 Senator La Follette. How many of them are there ? 
 
 Senator Pittman. There are from 300 to 400. 
 
 Senator Page. How many heads of families would there be? 
 
 Senator Pittman. I should judge in a case of that kind there 
 would be one- fourth of them heads of families. 
 
 Senator Page. Would you advise that this 100 acres of land be 
 divided so as to be given in proportionate shares, say, an acre or 
 two to one family ? 
 
 Senator Pittman. I do not think that is necessary. With that 
 little band there I would allow them to work it in a community 
 method. I think that would be more satisfactory. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Your idea is to let the department work out the 
 details? 
 
 Senator Pittman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. There might be one Indian they would want 
 to give a little home to, because he had demonstrated his capacity and 
 willingness to maintain it, and there might be others who would be 
 dependent entirely upon the community. 
 
 Senator Pittman. Those Indians, in mv opinion, would do well 
 right around Carson City, because they are liked there. 
 
 The Chairman. You suggest $10,000 for the land and $5,000 for 
 the agricultural implements and stock? 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 229 
 
 Senator Pittman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. Would you not think it best for the present to leave 
 the title of that land in the United States, so that the Government 
 could have control of it? 
 
 Senator Pittman. That would be unobjectionable to me, to leave 
 the title in the United States to hold for the benefit of those Indians. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. I make the suggestion that Mr. Meritt and 
 Senator Pittman prepare an amendment, or, Senator, you prepare it 
 and let the department have an opportunity to look over it. 
 
 The Chairman. Will you present that in the morning? 
 
 Senator Pittman. Yes. 
 
 The Chairman. And Mr. Meritt will have a justification for it to 
 put in the record ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 (Thereupon, at 1 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until to- 
 morrow, Thursday, January 21, 1915, at 10 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 THURSDAY, JANUARY 21, 1915. 
 
 The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Robinson, Clapp, La Fol- 
 lette. Page, and Gronna; also Mr. E. B. Meritt, Assistant Commis- 
 sioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 NEBRASKA. 
 
 Senator Clapp (presiding) . " For support and education of three 
 hundred and seventy-five Indian pupils at the Indian School at 
 Genoa, Nebraska, including pay of superintendent, $64,500." 
 Changed to what amount? 
 
 Mr. MEErrr. $68,800. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is to make the difference on the change in 
 the number of pupils. Then that changes the total. 
 
 Senator Page. We also agreed to change $15,000 to $7,000, inci- 
 dentals. Now you make it $75,800, do you not? 
 
 Senator Clapp. "Whatever that total would be. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The estimate is justified, beginning page 199 of the 
 House hearings. 
 
 Senator Page. I see you call for $81,800. What is left out? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Left out for doctor's residence. 
 
 Senator Page. Six thousand. I move we agree to that change. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 Senator Clapp. What would that make the $64,500 read? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Sixty-eight thousand eight hundred. 
 
 WASHINGTON. 
 
 The Chairman. Senator Jones wishes to be heard. 
 
 Senator Jones. Gentlemen, you will remember I referred to a bill 
 yesterday morning granting some lands in the Colville Reservation 
 to the Historical Society. I have here a copy of the bill as we 
 passed it through the Senate, and you have a letter from the depart- 
 ment indorsing this bill as it passed the Senate. You have the let- 
 ter in the files of the committee, a letter from the department in- 
 dorsing the bill allowing the transfer from the Colville Reservation 
 to the Historical Society. As I say, this bill has passed the Senate 
 in the Sixty-second Congress in that form. 
 
 The Chairman. We can get that report. , t • t^ 
 
 Senator Jones. Yes; you have a report from the Interior De- 
 partment, and that is framed exactly as recommended by the depart- 
 ment, and I do not believe there would be any ob]ection to it. 1 hen 
 
 231 
 
232 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 this school district matter I referred to yesterday morning, Mr. 
 Meritt says he will have the report from the department upon that 
 very shortly, so I will just call that to your attention. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We should like to have that legislation go m the bill. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we amend by inserting after line 18, 
 on page 34, the language of that bill, or something, as suggested. 
 
 The Chaieman. In the absence of objection that will be agreed to. 
 Senator Sterling wishes to be heard. 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, January S, lOlJf. 
 Hon. William J. Stone, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Mt Dear Senator : I have received your letter of December 13, 1913, inclosing 
 a copy of Senate 3130, granting certain lands on the Colvllle Eeservation, Wash., 
 to the Washington Historical Society, and requesting such suggestions as I 
 may care to make regarding the proposed legislation. 
 
 On February 20, 1912, Mr. Jones introduced a bill in the Senate (S. 5379, 
 62d Cong., 2d sess.) granting to the Washington State Historical Society the 
 following described lands on the diminished Colville Indian Reservation : 
 
 " Lots 3 and 4 in section 17, lot 4 in section 18, and lot 7 in section 21, all in 
 township 30 north, range 25 east, of the Willamette meridian, containing 103.65 
 acres, more or less." 
 
 This bill was referred to the department and a full report thereon was made 
 to Hon. R. J. Gamble, then chairman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 a copy of the report being inclosed herewith. 
 
 The bill, with the amendments suggested by this department, passed the 
 Senate on January 17, 1913, and was referred to the Committee on Indian 
 Affairs in the House of Representatives on January 18, 1913, but apparently 
 no further action was taken in the House. 
 
 The bill introduced by JMr. Jones on September'22, 1913 (S. 3130), is identical 
 with the original bill introduced by him on February 20, 1912 (S. 5379), with 
 the exception that the word " State " is omitted ia line three. 
 
 There would be no objection to conveying to the State Historical Society the 
 tracts described in the act which passed the Senate on January 17, 1913, as 
 reports from the field indicate that the lands described in the said act show 
 evidence of settlement by the Astor Fur Co. and are not claimed by any Indian 
 allottee, except a small part of one lot, 4 ncres. Reports from the field show 
 further that Supt. Johnson, in charge of fhe Colville Reservation, with Mr. 
 W. H. Gilstrap, of the State Historical Society, and Joseph Lafleur, a half- 
 blood son of Joachim Lafieur, a French Canadian, who for several years was 
 in charge of the Hudson Bay Co.'s trs;ding post at the mouth of the Okanogan 
 River, went with the superintendent to the site of old Fort Okanogan. 
 
 These persons identified the site of the Hudson Bay Co.'s fort on lot 7 of section 
 21, township 30 north, range 25 east, where evidences of the old buildings may 
 still be found, and that they also identified a point in the extreme northwest cor- 
 ner of lot 2, section 17, as having been the site of another fort, undoubtedly being 
 those of the Astor Fur Co.'s buildings. Superintendent Johnson reported that 
 Mr. Gilestrap readily recognized the injustice of depriving the Indians of so 
 large and valuable a piece of farming land as is contained in lots 3 and 4, sec- 
 tion 17, and lot 4, section 18, andthat Mr. Gilstrap was willing to confine the 
 selection for the Historical Society to a tract of about 4 acres in the northwest 
 corner of lot 2, on which the Astor Co.'s settlement was made, to lot 4 in section 
 18, on which there is evidence of an excavation made years ago, and to lot 7 in 
 section 21, on which the Hudson Bay Co.'s fort was located. The superintend- 
 ent added, however, that lot 4 of section 18 was requested at the solicitation of 
 the people of the neighboring town of Brewster, who erected a flagpole thereon on 
 July 5, 1911, the centennial of the discovery of the Okanogan River. 
 
 In the light of the information furnished from the field, the department recom- 
 mended a change in the descriptions of the lands proposed to be conveyed by 
 the original bill and the change was made in the Senate and passed that body 
 on January 17, 1913, as heretofore set out. 
 
 It will be seen therein that provision was made whereby the lands granted 
 shall be paid for by the society at their appraised value, to be ascertained 
 In such manner as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe, and for the pro- 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 233 
 
 ceeds to be placed in the Treasury to the credit of the Indians belonging on the 
 reservation. The amended bill provided also that the lands granted shall be 
 subject for a period of 25 years to all the laws of the United States prohibiting 
 the introduction of intoxicants into the Indian country. 
 
 If the present bill is amended so as to conform with the suggestions made in 
 the department's report of July 12, 1912, and with Senate bill 5379 (copy here- 
 with) as it passed Ihe Senate in the Sixty-second Congress, third session, the 
 department would be in favor of the grant. 
 
 For your convenience a carbon of this report and a copy of the report of July 
 12, 1912, are inclosed. 
 Cordially, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 July 12, 1912. 
 Hon. KoBEBT J. Gamble; 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Sir : I liave the honor to refer to departmental letter of March 4, 1912, regard- 
 ing Senate 5379, granting certain land on the diminished Colville Indian Reser- 
 vation to the Washington State Historical Society. 
 
 The bill proposes to grant lot 3, containing 48.90 acres, and lot 4, containing 
 33.85 acres, of section 17; lot 4, containing 7 acres, of section 18; and lot 7, 
 containing 20.90 acres, of section 21, township 30 north, range 2.T) east, western 
 meridian, totaling 110.G5 acres, instead of 103.65 acres as set out in the bill. 
 
 Reports from Special Allotting Agent Hunt, dated March 28, 1912, and Super- 
 intendent Johnson, in charge of the Colville Reservation, dated June 5, 1912, 
 indicate that lots 3 and 4 of section 17 and lot 4 of section 18 are now and have 
 been occupied and claimed by Indians for a long time, and that these lots have 
 been selected as allotments. These officers are of the opinion that the area 
 asked for by the society is more than needed. Mr. Hunt says that considerable 
 parts of these lots are overflowed annually, but that they are valuable as hay 
 lands. He reports further that there is evidence of a settlement by the Astor 
 Co. on lot 2 in section 17 (this lot is not mentioned in the bill), but that as there 
 is an Indian home on the lot evidently for this reason the historical society did 
 not claim it. He has in^•ited attention to lots 6 and 7 in section 21, on which 
 there are old Indian graves, and at one point some new ones. These two lots 
 are said to be at a higher elevation than the other tracts at the mouth of the 
 Okanogan River and they do not overaow. He recommends that these two 
 lots, aggregating 57 acres, be set aside as a national park. 
 
 Supt. Johnson says that Mr. A\'. H. Gilstrap, of the State historical 
 society, and Joseph Lafleur, a half-blood son of Joachim Lafleur, a French- 
 Canadian, who for several years was in charge of the Hudson Bay Co.'s trading 
 post at the mouth of the Okanogan River, went with him (the superintendent) 
 to the site of old Fort Okanogan. It seems that Lafleur, who was born m 
 1834 and left the old fort with his parents in 1852, identified the site of the 
 Hudson Bay Co.'s fort on lot 7 of section 21, township 30 north, range 25 
 east, where evidences of the old buildings may still be found. He also identi- 
 fied a point in the extreme northwest corner of lot 2, section 17, as having been 
 the site of another fort, the ruins of which were still standing when he was a 
 young man, undoubtedly being those of the Astor Fur Co.'s buildings. 
 
 The superintendent says further that Mr. Gilstrap readily recognized the 
 mjustice of depriving the Indians of so large and valuable a piece of farming 
 land as that contained in lots 3 and 4, section 17, and lot 4, section 18, and 
 that he was willing to confine the selection for the historical society to a tract 
 of about 4 acres in the northwest corner of lot 2, on which the Astor Co s 
 settlement was made, to lot 4 in section 18, on which tbere is evidence of an 
 excavation made years ago, and to lot 7, section 21, on which the Hudson Bay 
 Go's fort was located. The superintendent says further that lot 4 of section 
 18 was requested at the solicitation of the PeoPl« »? t^%?^7,^,^°"^i Tt°^ 
 Brewster, who erected a flagpole thereon on July 5, 1911, the centennial of the 
 
 '"LoT7in'sfctio?ir whic^'ifat the extreme point of the confluence of the 
 Okanogan and c'umbir Rivers, Is said to be partly -^ect to overflow, and 
 lot 7, in section 21, to be gravelly and agnculturalin character and fiom 60 to 
 70 feet above the water. It is reported to be ^^o'-t^ ^bout $50 an £^cre. 
 
 The superintendent sees no necessity for Sjaiiting three detached pieces of mna 
 to the society, and he is of the opinion that lot 4, in section 18, on which there 
 
234 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 
 
 is no evidence of occupancy by one of tlie old trading companies, would be 
 used more for pleasure purposes tlian for commemorating an historical event. 
 He believes that tbe sites of tlie two trading posts sliould be reserved and 
 marked in a proper manner for historical purposes, and with this end in view 
 he has recommended that there be granted to the society lot 7, containing 
 20.90 acres, in section 21, and about 4 acres In the extreme northwest corner 
 of lot 2, section 17, township 30 north, range 25 east. 
 
 The sui)erinendent advances as the only objection to these tracts being set 
 aside for historical purposes that they will doubtless be used for public parks, 
 which, he fears, will make it easier for Indians to obtain intoxicating liquors. 
 For this reason he suggests that the grant, if made, be subject to a provision 
 forbidding the introduction of intoxicating liquor for a period of at least 25 
 years. 
 
 It will be seen that both officers recommend lot 7, in section 21, on which there 
 are Indian graves and on which it is said that the Hudson Bay Co.'s fort was 
 erected. Special Allotting Agent Hunt, however, recommends lot 6 in addition, 
 while Supt. Johnson recommends 4 acres in the northwest corner of lot 2, on 
 which the Astor Co.'s settlement is said to have been located. 
 
 The department would not care to reeonunend the approval of the bill as 
 originally introduced, but can see no ob.lection to conveying to the State His- 
 torical Society the tracts recommended by Supt. Johnson, to wit, lot 7 in 
 section 21, and 4 acres in lot 2 of section 17, if jirovision is made to pay 
 the tribe for the said lands and for a proper safeL'uard against the introduc- 
 tion of liquor into the proposed park or public reservation. 
 
 In 1905 the Indians agreed to tr.ke allotments on the diminished or south 
 half of the Colville Reservation and to the sale of their surplus lands, the 
 proceeds to be deposited to the credit of the tribe. While this agreement was 
 not ratified, the provisions thereof were substantially adopted by the act of 
 March 22, 1906 (34 Stat. L., 80-82), and that of June 21, 1906 (34 Stat. L., 377). 
 It Is believed, therefore, that the Indians should receive adequate payment for 
 any lands taken from them. The department has accordingly prepared and 
 transmits herewith a draft of a bill which will be satisfactory to it, and which 
 It recommends in lieu of Senate 5379. r 
 
 Respectfully, 
 
 (Signed) Samuel Adams, 
 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 [S. "iMTO. Sixty-Rocond (Vjngress, third session.] 
 
 -AN .VCT Granting certain lands of the diminished Colville Indian Reservation, in the 
 State o£ Washington, to the Washington Historical Society. 
 
 Be it enacted Tjy the Senate and Hoiinc of Representatives of the United 
 States of America in Congress assemliled, That the Secretary of the Interior be, 
 and he is hereby, authorized to patent to the Washington State Historical 
 Society, for memorial and park purposes, the following-described lands in the 
 diminished Colville Indian Reservation, In the State of Washington, to wit: 
 A tract of land not exceeding four acres in area located in the northwest 
 corner of lot two of section seventeen, the precise description of said tract to 
 be determined by said Washington Historical Society and the Secretary of the 
 Interior prior to the issuance of the patent therefor, and lot seven, containing 
 twenty and ninety one-hundredths acres of section twpnty-one, all in township 
 thirty north, range twenty-five east of the Willamette meridian, in Washington; 
 Provided, That the lands hereby granted shall be paid for by the said society 
 at their appraised value, to be ascertained in such manner as the Secretary of 
 the Interior may prescribe, and the proceeds thereof placed in the Treasury of 
 the United States to the credit of the Indians belonging on the reservation of 
 which the lands herein described are a part and thereafter paid to the said 
 Indians or used for their benefit in such manner as the Secretary of the 
 Interior may deem for their best interests : Prrmided further, That the lands 
 hereby granted shall be snb.iect for a period of twenty-five years to all the laws 
 of the United States prohibiting the introduction of intoxicants into the Indian 
 country. 
 
 Passed the Senate January 17, 1913. 
 
 Senator Sterling. I understood, Mr. Chairman, there was some 
 question about the plat of the proposed highway about which we 
 have been talking and for which an appropriation of $5,000 was 
 
INDIAN APPEOPIUATION BILL. 235 
 
 asked, and that Senator Page was interest(^d in knowing the proposed 
 highway. 
 
 Senator Page. That is in a measure true. But the question I 
 raised was this : I asked if this was the first deflection from the old 
 line Mhich we had followed for years of not making any appropria- 
 tions for highways except on Indian reservations, and I think 
 Brother Clapp was authority for the statement that it is the first 
 deflection ; that we had not heretofore done that. Then, I raised the 
 question whether we should or should not enter upon this new field. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Senator Sterling will show you this is on an 
 Indian reservation. 
 
 Senator Page. If it does not violate any precedent. You know 
 I want to 
 
 Senator Sterling. It is on the Standing Rock Reservation. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it on Indian lands? 
 
 Senator Sterling. It is on Indian lands; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. It is not then to aid in connecting two reservations 
 that are separated? 
 
 Senator Steeling. No ; nothing of that kind. 
 
 Senator Page. That is the idea I got here in some way. 
 
 The Chaiejian. Senator Sterling, is this a gratuity appropriation 
 out of the Treasury or is it out of the Indian funds ? 
 
 Senator Steeling. I make it so in the amendment I propose now. 
 
 The Chaieman. Out of Indian funds? 
 
 Senator Steeling. Yes. The Secretary of the Interior suggested 
 either alternative in his report, and, as I first drew the amendment, 
 I made it a direct appropriation; but the amendment as presented 
 by Senator Clapp on yesterday made it reimbursable out of the 
 Indian funds. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you not think that strikes another point there? 
 It ought to be either reimbursable or the State of South Dakota 
 ought to pay the expense. We ought not to enter into the road- 
 building in your Sate by a contribution from the Federal Treasury 
 unless it is out of Indian funds, reimbursable. 
 
 Senator Steeling. I say it is out of Indian funds. The Secretary 
 of the Interior suggested. He said : 
 
 If Congress deems it unwipe to make a gratuitous appropriation for the pnr- 
 lio.se above mentioned, it conld be made reimbinsable from tlie vStandina; Kock 
 Eefervation 3 per cent fund nn:ier tlie act of February 14. 191-". 
 
 I particularly make it so in the amendment I now suggest, and 
 refer to this act and to the act providing for this fund. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Meritt, what have you to say about this? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The office would prefer that this appropriation be 
 made out of the funds of the Indians rather than a gratuity appro- 
 priation, because if it were made a gratuity appropriation it would 
 estabhsh a precedent that would embarrass us m the future. I will 
 state, Senator, that under the report of the Secretary of the Interior 
 the county in required to pay a part of the expenses of this road 
 within the reservation. . 
 
 Senator Steeling. Yes. The amendment provides for this as a 
 
 proportional part. . , , ■ v.- u 
 
 Senator Page. What proportion? What is the basis upon which 
 
 you figure the proportion ? 
 
236 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Steeling. It is this : The Yellowstone Trail Co. proposes 
 to furnish two-thirds of the entire cost, which amounts to $27,500, 
 leaving one-third of the sum, over $9,000, as an expense to be paid by 
 the county of Corson itself, and the proposition is to divide that 
 which is to be paid by the county of Corson between the Government 
 and Corson County. 
 
 Senator Page. Between the Indians and Corson County? 
 
 Senator Steeling. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. I want it understood that this must not be used 
 as a precedent. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Does the Santa Fe trail run through an Indian 
 reservation ? 
 
 The Chaieman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Is there any reason on earth, when we do not know 
 what to do with their money, when we do not dare to give it to 
 them for fear they will spend and waste it, is there any reason why 
 we should not, within reasonable limits, use the money of the In- 
 dians to build roads in their own country? 
 
 The Chairman, I am in favor of it. 
 
 Senator Page. What ground can you offer for taking the Indian's 
 money to build a road through his reservation when it is going to 
 very largely and chiefly benefit this ocean-to-ocean highway and 
 not give the Indian any appreciable benefit? 
 
 Senator Clapp. You can not put a good road through any man's 
 property or the property of any Indian tribe without benefiting 
 the property adjacent to that road. 
 
 Senator Steeling. This will be of the greatest benefit to the In- 
 dians. The valuation of the Indians' lands there will be increased 
 to the extent of $50,000 at least by the putting of this road through 
 there. The Indians are the ones who are chiefly affected by this 
 road. 
 
 The Chaieman. I believe that is true. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Then why should we not do it? 
 
 Senator Page. I would if it was for the Indian's benefit, but if 
 only for the white man's benefit I would not be. 
 
 Senator Steeling. I have been out through that country and I 
 Iniow their situation. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You can not benefit the Indian without benefiting 
 some white man. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I should like to know how much of an appro- 
 priation is asked for by Senator Sterling. 
 
 Senator Sterling. It will cost about $25,500 to build the road. 
 The funds are to be furnished, outside of $18,000 of the funds to be 
 furnished from outside; $9,000 is the proportion to be furnished by 
 the county on the agreement with the Yellowstone Trail Co. Then 
 it is proposed that the Government, because of the benefit it will be 
 to the Indians, appropriate one-half of what will be required to be 
 put up by Corson County under this agreement. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Of course it would be impossible to build any- 
 thing— roads, bridges, or anything— for the Indians but what the 
 white men would get some benefit? 
 
 The Chaieman. That is true, and I agree with Senator Clapp and 
 you both. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 237 
 
 Senator Gkonna. I for one believe in building roads for the In- 
 dians whether the white men ha^ e any benefit out of them or not. 
 If he does, so mnch the better, and I should be in favor of building 
 roads through Arizona or building them through any reservation 
 where roads are needed. 
 
 The Chaikjian. Where they really benefit the Indians? 
 
 Senator Gko>'is'a. Yes; I should vote for it. 
 
 The Chaikjian. They would benefit the Indian, of course. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator Gronna, let me ask you a question. Here 
 these roads are not built primarily for the tribe's benefit. Here is 
 this trail company that is g< ing through South Dakota; they want a 
 trail. I do not laiow but what they are going to charge a tariff for 
 the road. I have not investigated that. I say we do not want to 
 stand here and see the Indian made the burden bearer for roads built 
 for private purposes, or for you and me, if we want to ride from the 
 Atlantic to the Pacific in an automobile. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I agree to that if they are only built for the ex- 
 clusive use of the white man, but you can not build a road through 
 any reservation but what it will be of very great value to the Indians, 
 and if there is anything the Indians need in the reservations it is 
 good roads. 
 
 Senator Sterling. That is true. 
 
 The Chaik-man. Upon reading this I find that if it is just in 
 any contingency, we are justified here. This is not between two 
 reservations. 
 
 Senator Page. I confess my opposition, if I had any, was predi- 
 cated on the idea that it was between one reservation and another. 
 
 The Chaiem:\n. It is on the reservation. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that it be allowed. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 WTOJIING. 
 
 The Chairman. "For support and civilization of Shoshone In- 
 dians in Wyoming, including pay of employees, $15,000. 
 
 Senator Page. I move it be approved. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) . n i j j j 
 
 The Chairman. " For support and education of one hundred ana 
 seventy-five Indian pupils at the Indian School, Shoshone Reserva- 
 tion, Wyoming, including pay of superintendent $31,025 ; tor gen- 
 eral repairs and improvements, $5,000 ; in all it)db,u/£). 
 
 Senator Page. I move it be approved. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) „-,^tt i, -^^c 
 
 Mr JVIeritt. That is justified on page 315 House heaimgs. 
 
 Senator Page. What is this $700 left out? 
 
 Mr Meritt The House reduced our support fund from $31,7^5 to 
 $31,025, but we will try to get along with that ^mwnt 
 
 The Chairman. " For support of Shoshones in Wyoming, i^ or pay 
 oflAysicl^nXcher, carprn'ter -H-. - ^S 'jrpa/Sf^ecotd 
 smith (article ten, treaty of July 3, 1868), f^^O^^'j^fi^^^f^an^ 
 blacksmith, and such iron and steel and ^^^^^.^^f *^J f f 6 OOO^^ 
 required, as per article eight, same treaty, $1,000, m all $b,OOU. 
 
 Is there any objection? 
 
238 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That is justified on page 316, House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection, it is agreed to. 
 
 For continuing the work of constructing an irrigation system withiu tlie 
 diminislied Shoshone or Wind River Reservation, in Wyoming, including the 
 maintenance and operation of completed canals, $25,000, reimbursable in accord- 
 ance with the provisions of the act of Jlarch third, nineteen hundred and five, 
 and to remain available until expended. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That is justified on page 317, House hearings. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that it be approved. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 The Chairman. " For continuing the work of constructing roads 
 and bridges within the diminished Shoshone or Wind River Eeser- 
 vation, in Wyoming, $15,000, said sum to be reimbursed from any 
 funds which are now or may hereafter be placed in the Treasuj y to 
 the credit of said Indians." 
 
 Appropriated last year, $25,000; estimated this year, $15,000; the 
 House agreed to $15,000. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That item is justified on page 318, House hearings. 
 
 Senator Page. No objection, so far as I am concerned. 
 
 The Chaieman. In the absence of objection it will be agreed to. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I should like to have inserted the following item : 
 
 For repairs at the old, abandoned military post of Fort Washakie, ou the 
 Wind River Reservation, Wyo., $881.66, from the amount heretofore collected as 
 rentals of buildings at said post. 
 
 That amount will go back into the Treasury if we do not get this 
 appropriation, and we need that amount for the purpose of improv- 
 ing those buildings. 
 
 The Cpiaieman. Is there any objection? 
 
 Senator Page. What is this building used for ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is used for the Indian agency. The post has been 
 turned o\ ei- to the Indian Service, but we have been renting part of 
 the post and that rental will go into the Treasury if we do not get 
 this appropriation for the purpose of improving the building, which 
 is in bad repair. 
 
 Senator Page. It has been used for the residence of the agent? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. Not used for the residence of the agent; it is used 
 for the business quarters of the reservation, the agency itself. I 
 have a justification here for it. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not care if it is only an $800 item. 
 
 The Chaikjiax. It is estimated for, is it not? 
 
 Senator Page. Yes ; it went out on a point of order. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It was not estimated for. It was asked for after the 
 bill passed the House. 
 
 The Chairman. It is justified? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I shall be glad to offer the following justification for 
 this item. 
 
 The Indian appropriation act for the fiscal year 1915 contained an item " For 
 repairs at the old abandoned military post of Fort Washakie, on the Wind River 
 Reservation, Wyo., $1,732,80, from the amount heretofore collected as rentals 
 of buildings at said post." 
 
 The agency quarters for the Wind River Reservation are now located at the 
 site occupied by the former military post of Fort Washakie. A number of the 
 buildings are rented to traders and others, and the proceeds of such rentals 
 iire covered into the Treasury of the United States. 
 
 There was expended during the fiscal year 191.3 in construction and repair 
 work at this site approximately $15,000 from the appropriation " Indian schoof 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 239 
 
 and agency buildings, 1913," and during the fiscal year 1914 a sum of $2,700 
 was expended in addition to $1,427 approiDriated by the act of Juno 30, 1912'. 
 
 In a letter of October 2S, 1914, the superintendent of the Wind River Reserva- 
 tion reports that $881.6G has been collected as rent of these buildings since the 
 statement of the amount which was included in the Indian appropriation act 
 for the fiscal year 1915, and requests that this sum be made available by the 
 insertion of an item in the next Indian appropriation bill. 
 
 As the funds referred to were derived from rentals of the buildings, it is 
 believed they should properly be expended for repairs. 
 
 The Chairman. '' Section bventy-six of the Indian appropriation 
 act of June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and thirteen (Thirty-eiglith 
 Statutes at Large, page one hundred and three) , is hereby repealed." 
 
 The section which this proposed to repeal reads as follows : 
 
 Sec. 26. On or before the first day of July, nineteen hundred and fourteen, the 
 Secretary of the Interior shall cause a system of bookkeeping to be installed in 
 the Bureau of Indian Affairs which will afford a ready analysis of expenditures 
 by appropriations and allotments and by units of the service, showing for each 
 class of work or activity carried on, the expenditures for the operation of the 
 service, for repairs and preservation of property, for new and additional prop- 
 erty, salaries and wages of employees, and for other expenditures. Provision 
 shall be made by the Secretary of the Interior for further analysis of each of the 
 foregoing classes of expenditures if, in his judgment, he shall deem it advisable. 
 
 Annually, after July first, nineteen hundred and fourteen, a detailed statement 
 of expenditures, as hereinbefore described, shall be incorporated in the annual 
 report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and transmitted by the Secretary 
 of the Interior to Congress on or before the first Monday in December. 
 
 Before any appropriation for the Indian Service is obligated or expended the 
 Secretary of the Interior shall make allotments thereof in conformity with the 
 intent and purpose of this act, and such allotments shall not be altered or modi- 
 fied except with his approval. 
 
 After July first, nineteen hundred and fourteen, the estimates for appropria- 
 tions for the Indian Service submitted by the Secretary of the Interior shall be 
 accompanied by a detailed statement, classified in the manner prescribed in the 
 first paragraph of this section, showing the purposes for which the appropria- 
 tions are required. 
 
 Approved, June 30, 1913. 
 
 I have read that because this section 24 proposes to repeal that sec- 
 tion 26 of that act. . . 
 
 Senator Page. That seems to me to be a very important provision 
 and I want to suggest, in view of the fact that it is important, that 
 there are five Eepublican members of the committee here and no 
 Democrats except yourself. 
 
 The Chairman. I know that Senator Robinson and other members 
 of this committee are engaged on important committees. I presume 
 others have engagements also. . . 
 
 Senator Gronxa. I should like to have the commissioner explain 
 the justification for the repeal of this law. -, , . , ^. • . ■■ 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The justification for this proposed legislation is tound 
 on page 319 of the House hearings, and as it is a short justification 
 1 shall be glad to read it for the benefit of the committee, as follows : 
 
 This section provides that on or before the 1st day »* J^'lyil^l^. .^J^e Secretary 
 of the Interior shall cause a system of bookkeeping to be J.^«tf^";/|,l" f^^/:"^^^^^ 
 of Indian Affairs which will afford a ready analysis "^ e^^.'^;*"'^!^^''^ ^Pf °f 
 priations and allotments and by units of service showmg for each class of 
 work or activity carried on the expenditures for tbe operation of the service 
 for repair and preservation of property, for new and additional property, sala 
 ries and wages of employees, and for other e^cPef^ifures eta 
 
 This section in a different form, was inserted as an i^mendment to tne mii 
 J^l lenaTe Committee on Indian ff^^^^^rXri'^^re^^^en^ 
 amendment carried an appropriation of ?1^'""" ,°^ P"J"^° .-^'l, „as chan^'ed 
 Into effect. When the bill went to conference the form of the item was chan^ea 
 
240 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 and the appropriation stricken out. Tlie Indian Office was thus left in the 
 position of being required to make a complete revision of its bookkeeping sys- 
 tem without any aid from the outside. This was and is a physical impossibility, 
 for the reason that the few clerks aralable for bookkeeping work have already 
 quite as much as they can do. To install a new system of bookkeeping, with 
 all the details required by this legislation, would have taken all of their time 
 for perhaps several months, to the exclusion of everything else. This would 
 mean that the current work of the office would have to be left undone, which 
 would soon lead to chaos. 
 
 There is already in the Bureau of Indian Affairs a system of bookkeeping 
 which embraces apportionments from and liabilities against appropriations, 
 and affords an analysis of expenditures from each appropriation by agencies, 
 schools, and projects. The system required by the act of June 30, 1913, calls 
 for information along such different lines and in\-olves so much more detail 
 that the present forms and methods of procedure would have to be discarded 
 and an entirely new system worked out and put into operation. This, of neces- 
 sity, would have to be done without any break in the continuity of the office 
 records. 
 
 A request for an appropriation in the urgent deficiency bill for carrying out 
 this provision of law was made by the department, but failed. Thereupon an 
 effort was made to have the measure repealed by the last Congress, but that also 
 failed, the provision for repeal being passed by the House, disagreed to by the 
 Senate, and stricken out in conference. Attention is invited in this connection 
 to the hearings before the subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Appropria- 
 tions on H. R. 7898 (63d Cong., 1st sess., pp. 107-109) and to the hearings before 
 the subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the House of Repre- 
 sentatives (63d Cong., pp. 707-708). 
 
 If an appropriation for the employment of outside assistance can not be 
 procured, it seems imperative that the section be repealed. 
 
 I will state further that it is a physical impossibility for the 
 office, even if it had the appropriation of $12,000, to carry out this 
 legislation, for the simple reason that we can not get the informa- 
 tion from the field in time to submit this detailed information with 
 our estimates, which are required to be in the Treasury Department 
 by the 15th of October. We submit detailed justifications for our 
 bill in the hearings before the House committee as well as before this 
 committee, but it is usually after the 1st of October before we can 
 get this information from the field and then it is too late to submit 
 with our estimates. Our estimates are then already prepared and 
 submitted. After our estimates are submitted we get the detailed 
 information and have it ready for submission to the committees of 
 Congress. We probably justify the Indian bill more fully than any 
 other appropriation bill that is passed by Congress. It is on account 
 of the extent of our service and the fact that we have 135 superin- 
 tendents scattered all over the United States that it is a physical 
 impossibility to get the information required by that legislation and 
 submit it with our estimates, and for that reason we should like to 
 have the legislation repealed. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It would not be if you had an appropria- 
 tion sufficient to employ the help to do it? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. If we had the appropriation we could intall the new 
 bookkeepmg system, but we could not get this information from the 
 held m time to submit the justification with our estimates, because 
 we are required to have our estimates at the Interior Department 
 by the 15th of September, and the law requires us to have our esti- 
 mates at the Treasury Department by the 15th of October, and this 
 information can not be obtained until the conclusion of the first 
 quarter after the close of the fiscal year, which is October, and it 
 takes us 
 
IJNOIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 241 
 
 {Senator La Follette. The fiscal year closes on the 30th of June 
 does it not ? ' 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. How long ayouM it take to get the infoima- 
 tion from various posts to the department after the close of the fiscal 
 year i 
 
 jMr. Meritt. That information is furnished in the reports of the 
 superintendents at the close of the first quarter after the close of the 
 fiscal year — October. 
 
 Senator Page. That is when the reports are required by the de- 
 partment at the close of the first quarter, but suppose they required 
 those reports to be made in 30 days after the end of the fiscal year, 
 do Tou mean to say that the agency books are not kept so that they 
 can make a detailed report in 30 days after the end of the fiscal year? 
 
 Jlr. ]\Ieeitt. They possibly could in an emergency case, but it 
 would cause complications and a good deal of additional work. 
 
 Senator Page. My thought is, ]\Ir. Meritt, you suggest the fact 
 that you must change your whole system of bookkeeping to comply 
 with this? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I would not agree with you unless I had further 
 knowledge, because I say you can keep your system of books just 
 as you have kept it, and then have separate and distinct analysis of 
 your accounts from these books to comply with this statute. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We can comply with this legislation so far as the books 
 are concerned. If you will have the legislation modified so we can 
 submit this information to the committees of Congress direct rather 
 than have it accompany our estimates, it will be entirely satisfactory. 
 
 The Chairman. Why not restore this just as it was in the bill last 
 year, $10,000 ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I should like to know what Mr. Meritt 
 thinks about that amount of money being sufficient to do this work. 
 I think you ought to have all the money necessary to do the work. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. We can do the work with $12,000 provided the part 
 of the original legislation requiring us to submit this detailed in- 
 formation is omitted and requiring us to submit that information 
 by the first Monday in December. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Instead, you mean ? 
 
 ilr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you think $12,00i) will be ample? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I should be in favor of putting the appropriation 
 in and then saying to you that so far as the opinion of this committee 
 is concerned, if you could not get the appropriation to drop the whole 
 thing. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Let us pass this over. Our joint commission 
 had an expert accovmtant make some recommendations for a system 
 of bookkeeping, to examine the system. I want to compare the 
 amendment with the recommendations and see how they tally. 
 
 Senator Page. I suggest that we pass this and take up Wisconsin 
 while Senator La Follette is here. n j?, • ^.r, 
 
 Mr. Meritt. May the office have the privilege of redrafting the 
 original legislation and submitting it in such practical form that we 
 can carry it out ? 
 
 82833— YOL 1—15 16 
 
242 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yes. Ask Mr. Keating to send you the recom- 
 mendations on that. If it has been printed it probably has gone to 
 you. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I have no objection to it going over. I want to 
 say that I was one of those partly responsible for this provision 
 going in ; at least I urged it very strongly. My understanding was 
 that the information should go to Members of Congress or at least 
 to the committee, because I thought there was not sufficient informa- 
 tion upon which the members of the committee could act, and I 
 should be very glad to see it changed so that the members of the com- 
 mittee may have that information. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. It would be better to have submitted as of date 
 the estimates are submitted? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Yes. 
 
 Senator Hobinson. Instead of July it ought to be December, so 
 as to be as recent and nearly up to date as possible. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Yes ; have it in a form so that it is workable. 
 
 WISCONSIN. 
 
 The Chaieman. Commencing on page 34 of the comparison: 
 
 Sec. 22. For the support and education of 210 Indian pupils at tlie Indian 
 school at Hayward, Wis., including pay of superintendent, $36,670; for general 
 repairs and improvements, $5,000 ; in all, $41,670. 
 
 Senator Page. I should like to ask Mr. Meritt if it is not true that 
 it is difficult to keep the school up to the 210 pupils there at Hay- 
 ward? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir ; we have not had any trouble in filling any of 
 the schools in Wisconsin. 
 
 Senator Page. I was there to examine that school once, and I 
 ascertained that they actually sent out the agents of the school to 
 solicit the attendance of scholars at that school and took in scholars 
 that were very young, 6, 7, or 8 years old, younger than at the 
 schools, generally, and I wondered if the school was not really at 
 a point of decadence in a slight degree. Perhaps Senator La Fol- 
 lette knows about it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do not know anything of that sort about 
 it. I think you are entirely mistaken about it. 
 
 Senator Page. The point is this: If the schools are not naturally 
 filled is it wise, is it best to send out and solicit the attendance of 
 young pupils at those schools? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have no trouble in filling our nonreservation 
 schools in Wisconsin at this time. Years ago there was a difficulty 
 in filling the nonreservation schools, because the Indians at that 
 time did not fully appreciate the educational opportunities of these 
 schools. But now the applications for enrollment are equal to the 
 capacity of practically all of our nonreservation schools, and we 
 are asking in this bill for increases in capacity for a number of 
 schools. 
 
 Senator Page. Has the superintendent of that school been changed 
 the last three or four years? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. What is his name? 
 
\ INDIAN APPROPBIATIOK BILL. 243 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Superintendent Light. 
 
 Senator Gkonjja. According to your justification there seems to be 
 a very good average attendance. The average is 159 ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; and the enrollment is 200, the capacity of the 
 school. 
 
 Senator Page. You say the capacity is 210 here. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is the approximate capacity of the school. 
 
 Senator Page. I was not very favorably impressed vi^ith that 
 school. 
 
 Senator La Follettb. In some way you got a wrong impression. 
 I know the school has an excellent reputation. It is crowded. The 
 report here shows it. 
 
 Senator Page. Then let me give you a concrete statement about 
 it. Out in the back yard of that school, without shelter, there was 
 standing machinery that had been bought because it was supposed to 
 be an improvement on some that they had that had been used for a 
 short time. The raachinery did not prove satisfactory and there it 
 was standing out in the rain and, sun and going to the bad about 
 as fast as it could. I should say, if I were going into a business 
 concern and find anything of that kind, I should suspect their 
 credit. Again, I went out onto the farm and the plow stood in the 
 furrow where it had been standing — as I took pains to inquire — 
 for several weeks. There was something about the management of 
 that school that was not really up to my ideas of good administra- 
 tive ability. I may be wrong about it; it may have been changed 
 siQce that time, but certainly it did not impress me as being good. 
 Then when I found out that they were actually going out and solicit- 
 ing the attendance of every young pupil there I confess 
 
 Senator Townsend. What is the objection to soliciting pupils to 
 go to school? 
 
 Senator Page. Because as a rule we do not want pupils in these 
 schools, as I judge, until they are 10 years old, but if in order to 
 keep up the showing of the school they go out and take them at 6, 
 7, or 8 years of age, it simply shows a bad condition. Have you 
 the ages of the pupils, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have not the ages, but the rule in our nonreserva- 
 tion schools is that the pupils shall be at least 14 years of age. We 
 make certain exceptions to that rule where there is a good showing 
 made; for example, where the parents of small children have died 
 and they are homeless, we permit them to go to a nonreservation 
 school. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it the custom of your superintendents to scour 
 the country to find scholars with which to fill up their schools? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That was necessary a few years ago, but it is not 
 now necessary. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I still can not understand why that is not 
 commendable in reference to Indian children. My experience is 
 you have got to use all kinds of devices to get them m school. 
 
 Senator Page. That is after reaching the proper age, but if m 
 order to fill the school we are compelled to go out and take children 
 below an age regarded as advisable in order to have the school filled 
 up and furnish the basis of appropriations of that school, I do not 
 think it is wise. 
 
244 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator La Follette. From whom did you get your information 
 about that? You have reiterated that a number of times before this 
 committee. 
 
 Senator Page. My information about what? 
 
 Senator La Follette. About scouring the coimtry for pupils? 
 
 Senator Page. I know it came to me. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Did you get it from some subordinate in 
 scliool ? 
 
 Senator Page. I am inclined to think I got it directly from Mr. 
 Light. My impression is that I got an inkling of it somewhere else 
 and that I went to Mr. Light and asked him about the matter, and 
 I am quite sure he told me 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are you stating your recollection about Mr. 
 Light telling you, or just your impression? 
 
 Senator Page. My impression. I shall be very glad to have you 
 look that up. 
 
 - Senator La Follette. This school is as well located as any school 
 can be for receiving the Indian children. It is in the midst of a 
 large Indian population. There is not any reason why they should 
 have to resort to any extraordinary methods to fill that school that 
 are not practiced anywhere where there is an Indian school and I — 
 knowing nothing about Mr. Light; I know nothing about how he 
 was appointed or came to be appointed; I know nothing about the 
 farm life. I suppose Mr. Meritt, Mr. Light also takes care of the 
 farm there? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. He supervises it. 
 
 Senator Page. I judge Mr. Light is a splendid teacher. I think 
 he is fine in his department. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How many pupils are there in the school? 
 
 Senator Page. Two hundred and ten, estimated; but they have 
 160 or 170. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What class of work do they do? Is it a pri- 
 mary school? 
 
 Senator Page. I suppose they teach primary pupils and also those 
 of more advanced age. I laiow there were good-sized pupils there; 
 but they also had quite a number of young pupils, and I should like 
 to have Mr. Meritt give us the ages of the pupils there for the last 
 five years. Can you do that? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. You would not need it for the last five years. 
 One year, I should think, would be adequate. 
 
 Senator Page. That would show the attendance. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Did you see that ? 
 
 Senator Page. Yes ; I stayed there over night, I think. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Was their age objectionable? Were they so 
 young as to make it objectionable, in your opinion? 
 
 Senator Page. My impression is that before I got -to the school my 
 attention was called to the fact that the superintendent, in order to 
 keep his school up as large as he wanted it, was compelled to scour 
 the country to get scholars in and that they took scholars that were 
 below the usual age. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Of course, the first part of that is a very com- 
 mendable thing to do. If schools are desirable things, the more he 
 gets in the school the better it is. If we are to maintain schools for 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 245 
 
 Indians we want as many of them to a^'all themselves of it as possi- 
 ble; but ot course if he was bringing in there children who by reason 
 of their years are not capable of obtaining the benefits of the schools 
 that IS another thing. But I do not object to his encouraging them' 
 to come in, all he can get to come. 
 
 Senator Page. If the usual age is supposed to be 14, as Mr Mer- 
 itt has just stated— and I found that a goodly number ran down to 
 8 and 7 years, and secondly, many of them 9 and 10 years— it is then 
 a question for consideration. I should like to know about that 
 school, because I was very much interested in it. I thought that the 
 educational features seemed to be all right. I thought there were 
 good teachers; the only objection I had was to the administration 
 of it. It was not good from a financial viewpoint, as it seemed to 
 me. I can not conceive of buying a lot of machinery and using it 
 only once or twice, finding it imperfect, and then, instead of selling 
 it, letting it lie out in the snow imcovered in the back yard until it is 
 rotted down. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Senator, I will state that that was customary and the 
 practice in some cases with some superintendents in the Indian Serv- 
 ice; but we have issued specific instructions in regard to using farm- 
 ing iinplements, and the inspection officials are directed to see that 
 those instructions are carried out; and when a superintendent now 
 allows farming machinery to stay out in the fields without being 
 housed and protected, it goes against his record and he is severely 
 reprimanded for it, and if he continues it he will be dismissed. We 
 are trying to correct that evil. 
 
 Senator Page. It certainly should be corrected. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I might say further that there are in the State of 
 Wisconsin more than 10,000 Indians. The State also is located near 
 a large number of reservations outside of the State, and we have 
 experienced no difficulty whatever in utilizing these nonreservation 
 schools within the State of Wisconsin to their full capacity. 
 
 Senator Page. What is the largest State in the Union as to Indian 
 population ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Oklahoma. 
 
 Senator Page. Is Wisconsin next? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; Arizona is next and South Dakota is third. 
 Oklahoma has more than 100,000 Indians, Arizona has more than 
 40,000, South Dakota more than 20,000, California has 19,000, and 
 we have Indians in 26 different States. 
 
 Senator Page. How many Indians in all? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Approximately 300,000 Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. Thanks to Senator La FoUette, I know more about 
 the Wisconsin Indians than those of any other State. I went 
 through the reservations there, and that was my original schooling 
 along Indian lines, and I think I was rather impressed with the gen- 
 eral good condition of the Indians in that State, although we found 
 some rather severe cases. Senator, if you will remember, where things 
 were going wrong, but as a whole I thought the Indian situation m 
 Wisconsin was pretty good, and I believe we went to every reserva- 
 tion in Wisconsin and called in the Indians and sat there and let 
 them pour out their tales of woe until they were absolutely satisfied. 
 We said, " If you have anything more to say— if you have any com- 
 plaints to make— come in and let us hear them, because they are 
 
246 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 going to be published, and this will be a foundation for a good deal 
 of future legislation, perhaps." . . 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to approving this item m 
 accordance with the estimate of the House? 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 The Chairman. " For support and education of two hundred and 
 fifty Indian pupils at the Indian school, Tomah, Wisconsin, includ- 
 ing pay of superintendent, $43,450 ; for general repairs and improve- 
 ments, $5,000; in all, $48,450." 
 
 Why did the House go below the estimates ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We asked for appropriations for the support and 
 maintenance of 275 Indian pupils at this school. 
 
 The Chairman. That is the estimate ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; the appropriation for the support of the 
 school was estimated to be $47,925. We asked also for $10,000 for 
 repairs and improvements. We would be glad to have the estimate, 
 except for repairs, and we could reduce that to $8,000. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you want the estimate $10,000 for repairs? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes ; I should like to have the amount the 
 department says is necessary appropriated. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We shall be glad to have the full amount. 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection, the item $10,000 for 
 repairs and 275 Indian pupils instead of 250 will be approved. 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The justification appears on page 311 of the House 
 hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. That item is agreed to, and the estimate of $57,925. 
 
 For support unci civilization of the Chippewas of Lake Superior, Wis., includ- 
 ing pay of employees, $7,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is in accordance with our estimates, and is justi- 
 fied on page 312, House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. That is what the House approved. 
 
 The Chairman. " For expenses incident to carrying out provisions 
 of laws of the United States applicable to the Pottawatomie Indians 
 who reside in the State of Wisconsin, including pay of employees, 
 $7,000." 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The amount is in accordance with the estimates of the 
 department, and is justified on page 313, House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection, that will be agreed to. 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 Senator La Follette. Eight in that connection I have an amend- 
 ment which has been prepared by the department, by Mr. Meritt, 
 which I wish to offer. 
 
 For the support and civilization of that portion of the Wisconsin band of 
 Pottawatomie Indians residing in the State of Wisconsin and Michigan, and 
 to aid said Indians in establishing homes on the lands purchased for them 
 under the provsions of the act of Congress approved June 30, 1913, $200,000, or 
 so much thereof as may be necessary to be Immediately available and to re- 
 main available until expended, said sum to be reimbursed to the United States 
 out of the appropriation, when made, of the principal sum due as the propor- 
 tionate share of said Indians in annuities and moneys of the Pottawatomie 
 Tribe in which they have not shared, as set forth in House Document No. 830 
 <60th Cong., 1st sess.), and the Secretary of the Interior Is hereby authorized to 
 expend the said sum of $200,000 in the purchase of houses, building material, 
 seed, animals, machinery, tools, implements, and other equipment necessary 
 to enable said Indians to become self-supporting. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 247 
 
 It will be remembered, I will say, Mr. Chairman and member of 
 
 ^hn'^^Z'^r^^f^-' ^ }^? .r^"!^ ^'^ ^^ appropriation was made of 
 $150,000, I thmk, out of the funds belonging to these Indians in the 
 Treasury, as described in this amendment, for the purchase of lands 
 to furnish a home for these homeless people, and I understand 
 the department has already acquired the land. Is that not so Mr 
 Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. Is this reimbursable? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. How much money have they in the Treasury? 
 
 Senator La Follette. My recollection is something between 
 $400,000 and $500,000. ^ 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Between $400,000 and $500,000. This will permit 
 the use of money of the Indians, and the Indians have requested 
 that their money be used for this purpose. 
 
 Senator Page. Has that Menominee plan there worked out more 
 satisfactorily the last two or three years than it did in its inception ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think the plan has been more successful in the last 
 three years than at earlier stages of its existence. However, there 
 is still room for improvement. 
 
 Senator Page. I know when I was there Senator La Follette 
 asked me if I thought that plant had been built on too grand a scale, 
 and I inquired as to the probable number of millions of feet which 
 had to be cut there, and they told me 20,000,000 feet. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes ; the law required at that time 20,000,000 feet. 
 
 Senator Page. If there were 20,000,000 feet, I said, that mill was 
 not a bit too good to manage economically. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that? 
 
 Senator Page. Let me ask you a question, Mr. Meritt. Is it per- 
 fectly certain that there is a fund there from which the Government 
 can reimburse itself? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; and I would like to read in the record the 
 following justification which will make it clear: 
 
 Congress has recognized the claim of the Wisconsin band of Pottawatomie In- 
 dians residing in Wisconsin and Michigan, first, in directing by the act of June 
 21, 1906 (34 Stat. L., 380), the enrollment of these Indians and a report as to 
 the amount of money due them from the Government, and, secondly, in appro- 
 priating $150,000 on account for the purpose of buying lands for them by the 
 act of June 30, 1913 (3S Stat. L., 102). 
 
 Under the appropriation of $150,000 (which is to be reimbursed to the United 
 States when the principal sum shall have been appropriated) lands mainly 
 cut over and without improvements of any kind were purchased in Wisconsin 
 for these Indians, and they have been urged to remove thereto as soon as possi- 
 ble and to establish homes as contemplated by the act making the appropriation. 
 
 The bare lands so bought contain no improvements of any kind, and these 
 Indians, many of whom are in need of subsistence and clothing, can not live 
 thereon should they remove to the lands as contemplated by the law. In 
 order that they may establish themselves, houses will have to be built for 
 them, the lands broken and cleared, farming implements purchased, seeds 
 provided, and subsistence supplied for probably a season or two until they 
 can raise crops for themselves. Early action should accordingly be taken to 
 obtain the funds due these Indians that they may go upon the lands and 
 establish homes. ., ^ ^ , -ro-„ 
 
 Very recefaly a large number of these Indians met m council at Carter, Wis., 
 and adopted resolutions in which they expressed appreciation and gratitude 
 that the Government had purchased lands to provide them and their children 
 with permanent homes, and a realization of the necessity for each of them to 
 
248 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 put forth efforts to Improve and cultivate these lands and become self-support- 
 ing and useful citizens. 
 
 At the same time they made an earnest appeal that an additional appro- 
 priation be made of the funds due them, sufficient to assist each family to erect 
 a home and otherwise to improve the lands by clearing, fencing, etc., and for 
 the purchase of necessary implements, horses, etc., with which to cultivate 
 the lands. They also made an earnest request that the necessary steps be taken 
 to erect an industrial school in the vicinity of Carter, for the education of 
 their children. 
 
 Senator Page. Has it been found practicable to clear those lands 
 at a reasonable expense ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. At hovs' much per acre ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That varies, of course, according to the stumpage. 
 Some lands can be cleared at $6 or $8 or $10 an acre, and other lands 
 will cost a great deal more than that. 
 
 Senator Page. Those lands, you know, are only very recently cut 
 over. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. The stumps are pretty solid and green. Senator, 
 do you remember about the lands that we looked over there with the 
 then governor of your State at the time we were up at the Potta- 
 watomie Band? Did it not seem to you as we passed through the 
 woods there that those stumps were pretty green and that it would 
 require a large sum to take them out — $30 or $40 an acre ? 
 
 Senator La Follette.. I do not remember about that. The lands 
 are like cut-over lands in the State. Can you tell me, Mr. Meritt, 
 just where they made the purchase? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They have made the purchase around Carter. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Is it all in one body ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir ; in diflferent tracts ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you know about how many acres have 
 been purchased ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Several thousand acres; I can not tell you exactly 
 without referring to office records. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any further discussion? If not, the 
 amendment will be agreed to. 
 
 FOREST PRODUCTS, MENOMINEE RESERVATION, WIS. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is, on page 43, beginning in line 9, 
 as follows: 
 
 Section 3 of the act of March 28, 1908 (35 Stats. L., 51), is hereby amended 
 to read : 
 
 " That the lumber, lath, shingles, crating, ties, piles, poles, posts, bolts, logs, 
 bark, pulp wood, and other marketable materials obtained from the forests on 
 the Menominee Reservation shall be sold under such rules and regulations as 
 the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. The net proceeds of the sale of 
 all forest products shall be deposited in the Treasury of the United States to 
 the credit of the Menominee Tribe of Indians. Such proceeds shall bear in- 
 terest at the rate of 4 per cent per annum, and the interest shall be used for 
 the benefit of such Indians in such manner as the Secretary of the Interior 
 shall prescribe." 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, this item is justified on page 313 of 
 the House hearings. The change in the present law amounts to 
 this: We are required under existing law to sell lumber for cash, 
 and that places us in a rather difficult competing position with other 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 249 
 
 lumber companies, that can sell their lumber on time payments 6U 
 and 90 days. We are asking that we be placed on the same footing 
 as other lumber companies so far as the disposition of the product 
 or the mill is concerned. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that? 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, did that project there work out as favor- 
 ably as you expected and hoped? 
 
 Senator La FoLtEXTE. Well, so far as I am advised at present I 
 think it IS now paying a profit, is it not, Mr. Meritt? Does not the 
 report show that ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The reports show that there is a small profit being 
 made by the plant. 
 
 The Chairman. Do the Indians work in the mills? 
 
 Mr. IMeritt. Yes, sir; and the law gives them a preference in the 
 employment. 
 
 Senator Page. This, Senator Ashurst, was a new experiment to 
 see whether the Indians could conduct a lumbering business on their 
 own account or not. I think they have a white superintendent, but 
 as a whole I think that is run by Indians. There has been a very 
 large outlay there for clearing up the river so as to bring the lumber 
 down to that mill and a very expensive mill built, although I thought 
 at the time if they had 20,000,000 feet of lumber there, as they said 
 they had, that the mill was none too good, and I had hoped that it 
 would show that it was a practical and feasible arrangement, an 
 arrangement that could possibly be copied in other sections. That 
 was four or five years ago. I have never yet been able to get a 
 definite statement from either the department or the Senator as to 
 whether it has proven to be. 
 
 The Chairman. I can not speak with absolute knowledge, but 
 every report that has come to this committee is that it is a success. 
 The commissioner has just said that it has paid a profit; then there 
 is the fact that the Indians are employed there. As far as I am able 
 to say, it is a success. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It never has paid, and never can be expected 
 to pay a profit to be compared with the operations of the mills estab- 
 Ushed by lumbermen to cut off forests as they are cleared off ordi- 
 narily, for the reason that the great object sought to be achieved, so 
 far as the material side of this thing was concerned, was the perpetu- 
 ation of the forest, the preservation of it as a source of income for 
 the Indians for all time to come, and that makes it necessary to fell 
 every tree with consideration as to what you are going to destroy in 
 the way of young timber, and to clear up all the slashings and burn 
 off the tops, and all that sort of thing, to prevent fires. I think when 
 you take into consideration the condition of that great timbered res- 
 ervation to-day as compared with any other timber m Wisconsin 
 where lumbering operations have been carried on, that, considered 
 from that standpoint, it has been the most profitable conduct of busi- 
 ness for Indians that I know of. 
 
 Senator Page. It is an experiment that you would repeat under 
 like conditions ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I certainly would. 
 
 Senator Page. I remember that every tree was marked. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They do not cut the trees until they are npe. 
 
250 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. It is true on the national forests, the forests not 
 
 even on reservations, in one instance where a mill company bought 
 
 • 90,000,000 feet, that every tree was marked. The seed tree is marked 
 
 and the line is marked. That is carefully done on all cuttings now, 
 
 or ought to be, at least. 
 
 Senator Page. I have nothing further to say. 
 
 The Chairman. That is agreed to, in the absence of objection. 
 
 Senator La Follette. This new proposition comes from the de- 
 partment, and is the result, as I understand it, of their experience in 
 the management of this property. They find that we are required to 
 sell to the highest bidder at auction, and I suppose they can not get 
 as good prices for the products of this mill as they could get if they 
 could perhaps send out a salesman, like other mills do, around to the 
 yards of the State and make the best bargain they can and sell where 
 there is the greatest demand. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. The law now requires, in eilect, that they sell 
 to the highest bidder ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes; and I suppose that may have led to 
 collusion in bidding, perhaps. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That provision was very greatly criticized by 
 Mr. Ayres, who is a member of the Board of Indian Commissioners. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And he is something of a lumberman him- 
 self. 
 
 The Chairman. He built one of the first mills in Arizona. 
 
 Senator Robinson. There have been some criticisms of the opera- 
 tions of that concern, but he states that the most objectionable con- 
 ditions that he found grew out of the provision of law that prevents 
 the operation of the mill as other mills are operated and disposing 
 of the products. 
 
 Senator La Follette. There have been criticisms of the operation 
 of that plant. There have been people in Wisconsin in the lumber 
 business who have looked with very great longing upon this fine 
 body of timber for the last quarter of a century, and I think that 
 one line of railroad was built in Wisconsin to run from this reserva- 
 tion down to Oshkosh with the expectation of getting the legislation 
 ultimately here which would carry all the timber to the mills at 
 Oshkosh. But the timber has been preserved to these Indians. It is 
 more valuable to-day than it ever was in its history, and when — I 
 think it was 1910 — Wisconsin was fire swept in an awful way, and 
 the destruction was tremendous — if I have the year right — the loss 
 by fire on this reservation was a negligible quantity, owing to the 
 fact that thej;- had cleared up after all their cuttings and to the fact 
 that the superintendent there, as I now remember, had men patrolling 
 on the borders of the reservation to keep the fires from coming in 
 from the outside. He had a telephone system by which help could 
 be summoned to any quarter. I think the loss by fire amounted to 
 something like a few thousand dollars. I do not retain the figures, 
 but it was negligible. 
 
 When you take all these things into account, and do not figure 
 simply the profits on the operations ; when you take into account the 
 fact that they are trying to work there the Indians into the higher 
 grade of work, you will see that it has been beneficial. The Indians 
 on that reservation are good loggers. They are what we call timber 
 Indians. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 251 
 
 Senator EoBiNSON. I xvas just going to remark that if I had any 
 criticism, from the information I have of the operation of that plant 
 it grows out of the fact that the Indians, being pretty good loggers 
 and woodmen to start with, are not crowded to the front in its higher 
 operations. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think that is probably true. 
 
 Senator Robinson. As I understand, one of the objects of this was 
 to teach these Indians 
 
 Senator La Follette. To finish their products for the market. 
 That was the hope. I trust it will y et be achieved. You see what a 
 struggle the superintendent has. He wants to make the mill pay, 
 and he must have sufficient laboi- to do that. He has the Sharpest 
 sort of critics after him all the while. That reservation is sur- 
 rounded by men who want that timber. They are employing attor- 
 neys to come down here and make representations before the depart- 
 ment and the committees of Congress that the thing is a wild, vision- 
 ary scheme, and all that sort of thing. I can see that the superin- 
 tendent of that mill is sort of between two fires. He is struggling 
 to make the mill pay, and 
 
 Senator Eobi>-son. "Who is the superintendent? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do not know. I haAe never made recom- 
 mendations for the appointment of anybody upon an Indian reser- 
 vation. He is whoever the department has selected. 
 
 Senator Page. Let me say to you that my recollection is that the 
 superintendent who was there at the time I was there was a pretty 
 bright young man ; that there had been jealousies among the Indians; 
 and that he was compelled to resign his place there ; and that he im- 
 mediately stepped into a place that paid him double the salary with 
 one of the large manufacturing concerns. 
 
 Senator Robinson. When were you there, Senator? 
 
 Senator Page. I should say it was four or five years ago that I 
 was there. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Who was appointed to his place? Do you 
 know, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Somebody from New York, I think. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Nicholson, of New York. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Was he an experienced lumberman? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not think he had ever had any experience what- 
 ever with lumbering operations before he went there. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That was my recollection, that they took out a 
 man who was competent and put in a man who did not know a thing 
 in the world about lumber. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. He was a clerk in a Government office in New York 
 City. 
 
 Senator Robinson. And put in charge of this demonstration-saw- 
 mill operation. I think it points it own moral. 
 
 Senator La Follette. All I have ever said to the department — ^ 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not charge you with responsibility for it, 
 either expressly or impliedly. I think it is the fault of the depart- 
 ment. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What I have said to them is this: "That I 
 have no recommendation to make for positions on Indian reserva- 
 tions in Wisconsin. I want you to put the best men you can find 
 there, and I will criticize you sharply if you do not do that. 
 
252 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Of coiirse, in order to give the enterprise an 
 opportunity to demonstrate its usefulness, it should have been put 
 in charge of a man who is skillful. 
 
 The Chairman. Certainly. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think the man who was there was an ex- 
 ceptionally good man, an able fellow, and an honest fellow— very in- 
 dustrious — and a man of quite superior intelligence in that business. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Who is in charge of it now, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Nicholson, who was appointed three years ago. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. He is still in charge of it, is he? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. That reservation, I think, should feceive 
 careful' investigation, and I was in hopes, Senator Kobinson, that 
 your commission might ultimately investigate that reservation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. We may get a chance to go there next summer. 
 We have not had time, as Congress has been in session all the time, 
 and we had had to work day and night in order to do anything. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the item will be agreed to. 
 
 SIDEWALKS, ODANAH, BAD RIVER RESERVATION. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 44, line 23, as follows: 
 
 For tlie repair and construction of sidewalks in the village of Odanah within 
 the Bad River Reservation, $500, said sum to be reimbursed to the United 
 States from any moneys which are now or which may hereafter be placed to 
 the credit of the Bad River Band of Wisconsin Chippewa Indians. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Mr. Chairman, I move to increase that to 
 $1,000. 
 
 The Chairman. It was estimated at $1,000. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It was estimated at $1,000, and it is im- 
 portant that that should be done. There is a bill pending now in the 
 House of Kepresentatives to pay to a person who was injxired on 
 that sidewalk damages resulting from the injury, and we are in 
 danger of losing a great deal more money than this appropriation. 
 
 The Chairman. In damage suits? 
 
 Senator La Follette. In damage suits. The House conunittee 
 cut it out altogether, did not put anything in. Congressman Len- 
 root moved on the floor to put in half of the estimate, and suc- 
 ceeded in getting it in. He was afraid to make the motion for the 
 full amount for fear that a point of order would be made against 
 his motion, but he secured half of that amount. I think it should 
 be raised to the full amount. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This item is justified on page 314 of the House hear- 
 ings, and the office will be glad to have that $1,000. 
 
 The Chairman. That item will be agreed to. 
 
 That finishes the State of Wisconsin. We have passed over a 
 large number of items. May we not recur to them ? 
 
 (At this point Senator Pittman entered the room.) 
 
 Senator Pittman. I have an amendment here that I have i)re- 
 pared in consultation with the assistant commissioner. I will state 
 that after discussing it with him and going into the matter more 
 fully myself I feel that the appropriation should be $15,000 instead 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 253 
 
 of $10,000 for the purchase of land, because if the land is pur- 
 chased nearer to these settlements it will be at a higher price than 
 if out farther. To obtain the real benefit it should be right at the 
 snbiubs of the town, and as the title will be held bv the OoveiT. 
 ment anyway it ^viU not be a matter of any particular importance. 
 Therefore, 1 submit the amendment as follows : 
 For the puvchase of land and water ri.iihts for the Washoe Tribe of Indians 
 
 f"^- %°f^nm f'^ « ^'^ ^''^''\^^' "^'^ ^'^''^^^^ '^'^'f-^s f'»- tl^e benefit of said 
 ^n'^'.'^kJn VT= • tl^f fiPl'ort ""'1 civilization of said Indians, $5,000- in 
 all, $20,000; to be immediately available and to remain available until expended. 
 
 The Chairman. Senators, we heard these arguments yesterday, 
 and the committee agreed on $15,000 ; but is there any objection to the 
 item now, with $15,000 for the land and $5,000 for implements and 
 stock and seeds? 
 
 Senator Thompson. I move that it be allowed. 
 
 The Chaiejuan. Without objection the item will be agreed to. 
 
 STOCKBEIDGE AND MUNSEE TRIBE OE INDIANS, WISCONSIN. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Let me make an inquiry. There is a mem- 
 ber of the Stockbridge Tribe of Indians, of Wisconsin, here who 
 wants to present an amendment if you are going to take up those 
 things by themselves later on after the committee has completed its 
 work. 
 
 The Chairman. We had better stay with Wisconsin until we get 
 through, if the gentleman is here. 
 
 Senator La Follette. He is here. The bill has been introduced 
 separately, and he wishes it put on as an amendment. He has a 
 letter from the Assistant Secretary of the Interior addressed to 
 Chairman Stephens of the House Committee on Indian Affairs. 
 
 The Chairman. We can put it in our record. 
 
 Senator La Follette. As I understand, it is a perfectly good claim 
 against the Government for reimbursing the Stockbridge Indians, 
 whose estate was distributed just as we are now distributing the 
 estates of the Choctaws and other Indians and laying the founda- 
 tions for claims to be presented here eventually by Indians who are 
 not now on the rolls but who have as much light on the rolls as those 
 to whom the distribution is being made. This is a case on all fours 
 with that. But it is a case where the claim of the Indian is perfectly 
 good against this Government, and they are going to recover against 
 the Government some time on it. 
 
 The Chairman. The bill and the letter read as follows : 
 
 Brit enacted iy the Senate mid Haiiae o/ Repra>entutii-es of tlic Viiilcd States 
 of Amei-ieti in Congress nssembled, That there is hereby apiiropriated the sum 
 of $90,000 for the payment of the members of the Stockbridge and Mimsee Tribes 
 of Indians who were enrolled nnder the act of Congress of ?ilnrch 3, 1S93, equal 
 amounts to the amounts paid to the other members of said tribe prior to the 
 enrollment under said act, and such payments be made upon the certificate and 
 order of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs upon claims being filed with him, 
 showing to his satisfaction that such claimants, or the ancestors of such claim- 
 ants, were enrolled under the act of March 3, ISD.S. entitled "An act for the 
 relief of the Stockbridge and JIunsee Tribes of Indians of the State of Wis- 
 consin." 
 
 Department of the Intemob, 
 
 Washington, April 23, 1914. 
 
 My Dear Me. Stephens : I have received your letter of March 23, forwarding 
 for report copy of a bill (H. K. 12297) proposed by Hon. Thomas F. Konop 
 intended to provide an appropriation to pay certain members of the btockbimge 
 
254 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 and Munsee Tribe of Indians, enrolled under the act of Marcli 3, 1893 (27 Stats. 
 L., 744), the amount of payments made prior to their respective enrollments. 
 
 This bill apparently is designed to accomplish a purpose similar with that 
 intended to be provided for by an item which Mr. Konop heretofore proposed 
 for insertion in the Indian appropriation bill and which was referred for report 
 by your letter of December 6, 1913, addressed to the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affiairs, and reported upon by me on December 26, 1913. 
 
 Section 6 of the act of February 6, 1871 (16 Stats. L., 404^07), provided for 
 the determination of the persons who were members of the Stockbridge and 
 Munsee Tribes and the future i-elations of each to the Government, in pursuance 
 of which two rolls were to be prepared — one to be known as the citizen roll, 
 to embrace the names of all persons of full age and their families who desired 
 to separate their relations with the tribe and become citizens; and the other 
 to be known as the Indian roll, and to contain the names of all who desired to 
 retain their tribal character and continue under the care and guardianship of 
 the Government. It was provided that no person should be entered on the 
 citizen roll without his or her full and free consent or on either of the rolls if 
 separation from the tribe was effected and an allotment of land was received 
 under the act of Congress for the relief of the Stockbridge Tribe of Indians 
 approved March 3, 1843 (5 Stats. L., 645), and amendment of August 6, 1846 
 (9 Stats. L., 55-56), or treaty of February 5, 1856 (11 Stats., 663-678), or who 
 was not of Stockbridge or Munsee descent. Subsequent to the enactment of this 
 law, payments were made to persons enrolled in 1874 as members of the tribe, 
 and thereafter many persons alleged that, although they desired to remain 
 under the control of the Government they had been forcibly prevented from 
 presenting themselves for enrollment. 
 
 Under date of March 3, 1S93 (27 Stats. L., 744-745), Congress enacted a law 
 under which all persons who were members of the Stockbridge and Munsee 
 Tribe of Indians at the time of the execution of the treaty of February 5, 1856, 
 supra, and their descendants, and all persons who became members of the tribe 
 under article 6 of that treaty, and had not become separated from the tribe, 
 were declared members thereof and entitled to their pro rata share in the tribal 
 funds and in the occupancy of tribal lands. 
 
 The persons who were held to have been erroneously excluded from the roll 
 in 1874, and children subsequently born to them, were enrolled in 1894, and 
 have shared in tribal payments made since that time, but so far only one 
 family has received shares in payments made prior to the 1894 enrollment. I 
 am advised that about 343 claims have been filed in the Indian Office by Indians 
 for shares, amounting to $567.33 each, in payments made to the tribe, under 
 the provisions of the act of February 6, 1871, supra, from the third quarter 
 of the fiscal year 1874, to the second quarter of the fiscal year 1894. 
 
 The amount of money required to pay the claims now pending aggregates 
 approximately $121,676.24. On March 25, 1914, the stockbridge and Munsee 
 Indians had to their credit in the Treasury $71,522.30, with accrued interest 
 thereon amounting to $15,334.59, a total of $86,656.89. From a report received 
 from the superintendent it appears that the " Interest " on the fund is liable 
 for the settlement of unpaid shares in payments made through the agency 
 amounting to $7,192.06, which would leave a balance of interest of $8,142.53, and 
 the greater part of the amount needed to liquidate the 343 claims for back 
 annuities now pending before the Indian Office is also payable from the " in- 
 terest," which, as is obvious, is entirely inadequate. Under the provisions of 
 the act of June 21, 1906 (34 Stats. L., 325-382), the members of this tribe are 
 given the option of taking an allotment of land, or having it commuted in cash 
 at the rate of $2 per acre, and about $40,000 of the principal mentioned above 
 are liable thereunder. In brief, the available liabilities and assets may be 
 summarized as follows : 
 
 Liabilities : 
 
 Claims for unpaid annuities from 1874 to 1894 $121, 676. 24 
 
 Unpaid shares in payments made since 1894 7, 192. 06 
 
 For money payments in lieu of allotments 40,000.00 
 
 168, 868. 30 
 Assets : 
 
 Stockbridge consolidated fund $71 522 30 
 
 Interest 15^ 334. 59 
 
 . 86, 856. 89 
 
 Additional amount required 82 856.89 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 255 
 
 The amount of money intended to be appropriated in the proposed bill will 
 
 f^l'^m'fi "^ '"® -r* *°,^«y ^" ^^« °'^'"^« "^'i'^*' by Indians,^and it s belieTed 
 the bill as now written will preclude the use of any other funds which mfght be 
 available and which, m view of the large amount of the claimsT must bfalso 
 used. It IS, therefore, recommended that the bill be amended bv in^rtinr^tpr 
 the figures "$90,000.00" on line 3, page 1, the worL " to be VsedTaddftinn ?n 
 tribal funds of the Stockbridge and Munsee T^fbe of IndianI" , nd on line 4 
 word ' 'that'"^ °"* ^"^ '^*''"'^' "*^^ Stockbridge and Munsee" and insert the 
 
 Claims other than those now pending may be presented, which would increase 
 the amount which win be required if the claims are to be settled. In u decision, 
 date July 1, 1911 the Comptroller of the Treasury decided that per.«ons who 
 were restored to the rolls by the act of March 3, 1893, are entitled to share! in 
 tribal payments during the time they were excluded, but action on the pending 
 claims has been suspended because of lack of funds with which to effect a com 
 plete settlement, and it is not considered advisable to make a partial settlement 
 for the reason that such a course would make preferred claims of some and 
 result m dissatisfaction. 
 
 For these reasons, I recommend that the proposed bUl be amended as sug- 
 gested and that it be given favorable consideration by your committee and the 
 Congress. 
 
 Very truly, yours, A. A. Jones, 
 
 „ ., „ „ First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 Hon. John H. Stephens, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 House of Representatives. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I understand that there is in this bill, as it 
 came over from the House, a proposition to pay the Choctaw Indians 
 about $200 apiece. 
 
 The Chairman. That is true. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That means about $5,000,000. 
 
 The Chairman. And the Chickasaws $100 apiece. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes ; and there are probably about 2,000 peo- 
 ple who will ultimately come before the committees of Conress and 
 establish as good a claim to be enrolled as those to whom this appro- 
 priation is to go. I have always contended that that matter of en- 
 rollment should be settled before distribution is made. 
 
 The Chairman. That item appears on page 26 of the comparison. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I was not a member here when this Stock- 
 bridge matter was disposed of, as the history of the transaction shows, 
 but I think that the statement of facts made by the department is 
 convincing, and it shows there is a perfectly good claim here. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I do not quite understand that. I could not 
 foUow it very clearly. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Would you like to have the matter go over 
 until another meeting of the committee? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Do you think this ought to go in this bill or 
 be made a separate bill ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think if the Choctaws can be taken care of 
 in this bill in this way the Stockbridges ought to be. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The Choctaw provision that you have referred 
 to is not subject to a point of order. It occupies a different legal 
 rtlationship. I was just suggesting that to you, Senator. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Of course that is true. I suppose this would 
 be subject to a point of order on the floor and it very likely would 
 be made against it. But strictly on the merits I thinli it is entitled 
 to recognition here. 
 
 Senator Page. It seems to me we are entering a new held here, 
 Senator, that may be a little dangerous. But it may be all right. I 
 
256 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 do not want to wrong any Indian. We are opening up these old rolls 
 and having the Federal Government stand sponsor for the additional 
 names. 
 
 Senator La Follette. These people have proved their right to be 
 on these rolls, and are enrolled now. 
 
 Senator Page. For the Choctaws and Chickasaws we take their 
 funds. Here we step in and make a gratuity appropriation to give to 
 them. 
 
 Senator La Follette. In part that is true, because we distributed 
 their property on a pro rata basis when we had not enrolled all of 
 them, and as their guardians and trustees we are accountable to those 
 who have been left off. If they ever go to the Court of Claims to 
 establish their right against the Government they will get judgment. 
 There is no doubt about that. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it not better as long as you know this will prob- 
 ably be objected to by a point of order, to put it in a separate bill? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do not know that it will be objected to. 
 We have been putting items on like this in this committee, and they 
 have been going through without objection, have they not? 
 
 The Chairman. Certainly. If I understood that letter right the 
 department urges the legislation. 
 
 Senator Page. Just one moment, Senator. Let me get the concrete 
 of it. What have we put through, if we have put through any, 
 where they did not have a sum in the Treasury, so it was taken from 
 the Indian fund ? 
 
 The Chairman. I will say that we have put no appropriations in 
 the bill since I have been here of an identical character, but we have 
 incorporated in the 1913 and 1914 bill legislation at least as obnoxious 
 to a point of order as this might be, and legislation no more merito- 
 rious than this is — that is, assuming that the letter that we have 
 before us states the facts correctly. 
 
 Senator Page. In one case the tribal fund has been taken and in 
 the other case we are taking it from the Federal Treasury. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes ; that is the difference. In one case the 
 Government is distributing the property of its wards, and doing it 
 with its eyes shut, and in the other case it is paying for its negligence. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The difficulty about this legislation is that it 
 still does not end the matter. There ought to be some means of 
 closing up these matters finally. It seems to me that we just go on 
 indefinitely. We pay out now, and others come in afterwards and 
 say. " Upon the basis of this distribution, this appropriation, you did 
 not include us. We had not proved up our claim to enrollment, and 
 now we ask you to make an appropriation for our benefit," and so 
 on ad infinitum. 
 
 There was one statement in that letter that I did not understand. 
 The claimants state that they were forcibly prevented from present- 
 ing their claims to enrollment. 
 
 The Chairman. I did not attempt to give it more than a perfunc- 
 tory reading. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Here is the statement, that " subsequent to the 
 enactment of this law," referring to the statute of 1856 (11 Stats., 
 663-678), "payments were made to persons enrolled in 1874 as mem- 
 bers of the tribe ; and thereafter many persons alleged that, although 
 
ixiuxAiN AJfi-'liUi'llIATION BILL. 257 
 
 they desired to remain under the control of the Government thev had 
 been forcibly prevented from presenting themselves for enrollment " 
 
 Senator Page. Well "many persons alleged." There is no state- 
 ment ot the Secretary about that except that persons allege thev were 
 prevented. •' 
 
 The Chaiemax Do you want this presented to a subcommittee, 
 Senator Eobmson? Do you suggest that? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I had not gotten that far in my oAvn mind I 
 want to do what is right about it. I wonder how far Senator La 
 Follette has gone into it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I never ha\'e made an investigation of the 
 matters referred to m that letter myself, but I understand that the 
 matter has been thrashed out in the department a good many times, 
 and that there can be no question about the facts set forth in that 
 letter. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Has your bureau gone into this, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 ilr. Meritt. Yes, sir; that report was prepared in our bureau, and 
 those Lidians are entitled to relief, and we think that the appropria- 
 tion should be made in order to settle the controversy and equalize 
 matters. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I have just pointed out that it will not settle it. 
 If it svould settle it I would be encouraged to do it. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We believe that it will settle the controversy if the 
 appropriation is made. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are these not all the Indians that have ever 
 made any claim? 
 
 ilr. MERiT'r. That is my understanding. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Wliat is to prevent them from coming forward 
 afterwards and malring these claims? You know how these things 
 are. All over my State there are persons claiming that they have 
 KuiEcient Indian blood in them to entitle them for enrollment in the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What do you know about that, Mr. Wheelock ? 
 
 Mr. Wheelock. I am here merely at the request of these Indians 
 to help them have it presented to the attention of this committee. I 
 am not a Stockbridge. I belong to the Oneida Tribe, which lives ad- 
 jacent to these people. This matter has been pending for several 
 years, and they are very anxious to have this money. Many of them 
 are in very poor circumstances, and they think that they should be 
 paid some time, because they have waited for their annuity since 
 1874. 
 
 Senator Page. Eight there. Is it not true that the Stockbridges 
 and the Oneida Indians are the most thrifty and have the best farms 
 of any Indians in Wisconsin ? 
 
 Mr. Wheelock. I would not say that, because that is a comparison 
 I do not like to pronounce. 
 
 Senator Page. They are good farmers, I believe. 
 jl Senator La Follette. The Oneidas are a very thrifty people. 
 P Senator Page. And the Stockbridges are well fixed. They are not 
 asking for this because they are driven to it. They have good homes 
 in a fine locality. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You are thinking of the Oneidas. 
 
 Senator Page. Are not the Stockbridges right m that same locality? 
 
 Senator La Follette. They are scattered around there. We did 
 not visit the Stockbridges. They have no reservation. 
 
 82833— TOL 1—15 17 
 
258 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Page. Did they not come before us at a meetinghouse or 
 church there ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think not. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not quite like to put this on this appropriation 
 bill. If we want to contribute independently, I have no objection to 
 sitting and listening to the argument. I would be very glad to do 
 that, but I do not think we ought to put it on this appropriation bill. 
 We are opening a pretty big door. I do not think we ought to put 
 the other on. I think that ought to be very carefully analyzed. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It is on here. 
 
 The Chair^ian. The House put it on. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think that every session of this com- 
 mittee when we have had an appropriation bill up we have put on items 
 for distribution — down in Oklahoma, particularly — in every appro- 
 priation bill that has been passed. Those items have been put on 
 right in this committee. And with the representative of two or 
 three thousand people here clamoring for a right to be heard to show 
 that they are entitled to enrollment we will not give them that right. 
 We will not put anything in the bill giving them any opportunity 
 to prove they have any right to participate in this estate. But we 
 go in every appropriation bill distributing an estate and laying the 
 foundation for claims exactly like this being presented against the 
 Government, with the payments coming eventually out of the Fed- 
 eral Treasury, as it will, because these people will recover, as their 
 claim is a just one. We gain nothing by putting it off from session 
 to session on these Stockbridges. They are going to recover with 
 interest ultimately. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Can there not be some way of determining 
 how many of them are entitled to enrollment and closing this mat- 
 ter? This has extended now a very long period. If we pay this, 
 still there will be other claims presented hereafter. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do not know about that. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. That is my understanding from this letter. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What do you know about that, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is my understanding this will settle all claims of 
 those Indians in regard to back payments due them. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is it your understanding that all persons who 
 are entitled to do so have presented their claims for enrollment? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I think so. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I do not read that from this letter that way. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think that is a mighty good point to 
 make, Senator. 
 
 Senator Robinson. It is the position I have always taken in re- 
 gard to these other rolls. If there is anybody else who has an equal 
 claim with these people I think they ought to be included. 
 
 Here is the express statement : " Claims other than those now 
 pending may be presented, which would increase the amount which 
 would be required if the claims are to be settled." That shows that 
 the department regards the matter as not closed. What I am won- 
 dering is if there is not some way to require the claims to be pre- 
 sented, or permit them to be presented — find out how many there 
 are, and wind it all up at once. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think that is a very good criticism ; and I 
 myself ask, Mr. Chairman, to have that letter and the proposed 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 259 
 
 amendment referred to the department, their attention to be directed 
 especially to that paragraph in the letter; and that they be re- 
 quested to inform the committee as promptly as may be as to 
 whether the amendment may not be presented in some form to bring 
 in all possible claimants, to render it impossible after the matter is 
 closed up for any further claims being made against the Govern- 
 ment, and to report an amendment covering it. Mr. Meritt, will 
 you have that looked up and have something prepared to submit 
 to this committee ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. Will it not render it impossible for any claimant 
 justly entitled to enrollment to come in here and get his money ? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The provision we want is — — 
 
 Senator Lane. I thought you said for them to offer an amendment, 
 and draw it up in such a manner that it will take in all possible 
 claimants and make it impossible to bring in others. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. To bring in all possible legitimate claims. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; if it takes in all legitimate claims, but you 
 ought not to exclude legitimate claims. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. There ought to be a time limit fixed, giving 
 them reasonable notice, to come in and show their interest. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; giving them a reasonable length of time. 
 
 Senator La FoliLette. Yes ; but I have an idea they are all in now, 
 though. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. It clearly says in the letter that others will be 
 presented. 
 
 Senator La Folleite. " May be presented." 
 
 Senator Eobinson. No ; " will be presented " is the way it reads. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The amount stated in the letter will cover any claims 
 that we now have a record of. Of course, it is possible that some 
 subsequent claims may be submitted. I will get the full information 
 on that and have it for this committee in a few days. 
 
 The Chairman. We will recur, unless some other Senator suggests 
 otherwise, to the items that have been passed over. 
 
 GENERAL CGITNCIL, CHIPPEWA INDIANS, MINNESOTA. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I have a proposed amendment here to hold a gen- 
 eral council of the Chippewas. It was prepared by the department. 
 I have simply changed it to provide that the first session shall be 
 held not later than May 30, 1915. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Eead the amendment. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It reads as follows: 
 
 The Secretary of tlie Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the 
 tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians in Minnesota now on deposit in the Treas- 
 ury the sum of $5,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be imme- 
 diWy avlnable and to remain available until expended, and to use the same 
 in his discretion in defraying the expenses incident to the organization and 
 ionHnuance of a general councU of all the Chippewa Indians in Minnesota 
 the first seLion to be held not later than May 30, 1915, including travelmg and 
 Xr necesfa?^ expenses of delegates and committees .«^-^^fr,nJted there: 
 stituted and its meetings and procedure and all other things connected tnere 
 with or pertaining therito shall be held and conducted under such regulations 
 Tnd requirements as the Secretary of the Interior shall prescribe. 
 
260 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. What is the object of that? 
 
 Senator Clapp. The object of that is that they have had a coun- 
 cil and we made appropriation last year for it. It is to have a gen- 
 eral council of the Chippewa Indians to look after their affairs. I 
 will say that the present council has saved the Chippewas at least 
 $80,000, and it may run into very much more. There has been some 
 question as to the calling of the council and all that, so this time it is 
 put right in the amendment that the council shall be called, and its 
 meeting and procedure and everything connected thereAvith con- 
 ducted under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of the In- 
 terior. This was prepared by the Indian Office, except that I desig- 
 nated the time later than which the first council should not be held. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that? 
 
 Senator Lane. My attention was attracted to it by the fact that 
 it makes an appropriation for these Indians to hold a council. I think 
 they ought to be allowed to hold councils in many cases. In other 
 cases other tribes are not allowed to. These are not only allowed to, 
 but their expenses are paid. Other tribes frequently want councils 
 and do not get any money at all, and not only no money to carry it 
 on, but no council. This is special legislation in behalf of one par- 
 ticular tribe. But I think it is a good motive. 
 
 Senator Clapp. There is not anything special about it. Any 
 other tribe can have it if they ask for it. This is the only tribe, so 
 far as I know, that has asked for it. Any other tribe can have it if 
 they want it. I think the department will readily accord the same 
 favor for a council of any tribe. 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection, the amendment will 
 be agreed to and inserted in the bill. 
 
 DITCHES, RESERVOIRS, AND DAjNIS, ETC., ON INDIAN RESERVATIONS AND 
 
 ALLOTMENTS. 
 
 The Chairman. The first item passed over is on page 2, com- 
 mencing at line 18, as follows : 
 
 For the construction, repair, and maintenance of ditclies, reservoirs, and 
 dams, purcliase and use of irrigation tools and appliances, water rights, ditches, 
 lands necessary for canals, pipe lines, and reservoirs for Indian reservations 
 and allotments, and for drainage and protection of irrigable lands from damage 
 by floods, or loss of water rights, including expenses of necessary surveys and 
 investigations to determine the feasibility and estimated cost of new projects 
 and power and reservoir sites on Indian reservations in accordance with the 
 provisions of section 13 of the act of June 25, 1910, $250,000, reimbursable as 
 provided in the act of August 1, 1914 : Provided, That no part of this appro- 
 priation shall be expended on any irrigation system or reclamation project for 
 which specific appropriation is made in this act or for which public funds are 
 or may be available under any other act of Congress; for pay of one chief 
 inspector of irrigation, who shall be a skilled irrigation engineer, $4,000 ; one 
 assistant inspector of irrigation, who shall be a skilled irrigation engineer, 
 $2,500; for traveling and incidental expenses of two inspectors of irrigation, 
 including sleeping-car fare and a per diem of $3 in lieu of subsistence when 
 actually employed on duty in the field and away from designated headquarters, 
 ?3,200; in all, $259,700: Provided also, That not to exceed seven superintend- 
 ents of irrigation, six of whom shall be skilled irrigation engineers and one 
 competent to pass upon water rights, and one field-cost accountant, may be 
 employed. 
 
 The estimate was $295,700. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The justification of this item begins at page 11 of the 
 House hearings. This is our general irrigation item, and it covers 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 261 
 
 all irrigation matters in the Indian SerAice not specifically provided 
 for at other places m the Indian bill. 
 
 Senator Thompson. What is the object of the increase of $36,000? 
 i,fm(? '^,i ^^ submitted an estimate which ^vas a decrease of 
 $50,000 over the appropriation of last year. The appropriation for 
 S^^"""*^^*/f^^l year amounts to $345,700. We estimated for 
 $-9.mOO and the House allowed us $->59,700. There is an unex- 
 pended balance from a previous year out of this appropriation, and 
 ne will tiy to get along with the amount allowed by the House. 
 
 \\ e will be glad to have incorporated after the word " fourteen," in 
 hne 4, page 6, and to remain available until expended " This is 
 construction work, and it is difficult to complete the construction 
 work withm the fiscal year, and the appropriation for these irriga- 
 tion projects should be made continuing, in our judgment. 
 
 The Chair^ian. Is there any further discussion ? 
 
 Senator Laxe. Is this construction work? I thought it said it 
 was repairs. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. It is construction and repairs. It is for small irriga- 
 tion projects and ditches. 
 
 Senator Laxe. Yes. 
 
 Mr. JNIeeiit. It is for the benefit of Indians who have no tribal 
 funds. 
 
 The Chaiejiax. Is there any objection to this item being agreed 
 to ? If not, it will be agreed to. 
 
 Mr. IMeritt. JNIay we have that amendment incorporated ? 
 
 The Chaiemax. Without objection, that will be agreed to. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The House also omitted some p-oviscs after the word 
 " employed " on line 20, page 3. The language is as follows : 
 
 Provided further. That liereafter the proceeds of sales of material utilized for 
 temporary irrigation work and structures shall be covered Into the appropriation 
 made therefor and be available for the purpose of the appropriation: Provided 
 further. That the rights of the United States to water for use on Indian reserva- 
 tions are hereby confirmed for use on land to Indians in severalty : Provided 
 further. That for lands Irrigable under any irrigation system or project within 
 the jurisdiction of .the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Secretary of the Interior 
 may fix maintenance and operation charges, which shall be paid as he may 
 direct, such payments to be available for use in maintaining and operating the 
 project or system for which collected. 
 
 The Chaiemax. That is the language of your estimates? 
 
 ilr. Meeitt. That is the language of our estimates. We consider 
 that very important legislation, and we would like to have it incor- 
 porated in the bill. 
 
 The CHAnofAN. Without objection, that will be agreed to. 
 
 Senator Page. One word, t saw on page 24 of the hearings the 
 proviso, " That the rights of the United States to water for use on 
 Indian reservations are hereby confirmed for use on land allotted to 
 Indians in severalty." Is there no way that that protection to the 
 Indians can be brought into this bill? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I just read that language, Senator, and that is part ot 
 this proviso. > 
 
 The Chairman. Which the House struck out ? , , • 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Which the House struck out; and we ask that it 
 
 go in. 
 Senator Page. I hope it may go in. 
 The Chaieman. Without objection, that will be agreed to. 
 
262 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This is a new item of legislation -which we have 
 worked out since the estimates were made. It does not carry an 
 appropriation, and it is very important legislation. 
 
 The Chairman. Another proviso ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Another proviso. It reads: 
 
 Provided further, That irrigable land allotted to Indians in severalty may be 
 leased for cultivation under irrigation for a term not exceeding 10 years, in 
 the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, and he is hereby authorized to 
 perform any and all acts and to make such rules and regulations as may be 
 necessary for the purpose of carrying this provision into full force and effect 
 
 The act of June 25, 1910, the existing law, limits leases to not to 
 exceed five j^ears. On certain of the irrigation projects we only 
 have a limited time in which to make beneficial use of the water. 
 We find that because of the short terms of the leases we are 
 having difficulty in getting lessees to go on this land ai^d clear the 
 land, level the land, and fence it and put it under cultivation. It is 
 believed that if we can have authority to execute leases for 10 years 
 we can get practically all this land under cultivation, so that 
 with the use of these reimbursable appropriations and leasing lands 
 that will not be cultivated by Indians we can make beneficial use of 
 the water under these various irrigation projects. We consider this 
 exceedingly important legislation and would be glad to have it 
 incorporated in the bill. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection or any discussion of this? 
 
 Senator Page. Let me ask: Suppose that we go on and make 
 these large appropriations, and that on the floor of the Senate they 
 strike out these provisos that you have put in here to protect the 
 Indians. Do you still favor making these large appropriations if 
 we can not have the Indians' rights protected? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We will favor this appropriation even without these 
 provisos; but on the Montana projects I am authorized to say that 
 we would prefer that we get the legislation that we have requested, 
 or else that the appropriations be materially decreased, simply allow- 
 ing sufficient appropriations to maintain the projects in statu quo 
 until the legislation can be obtained. 
 
 The Chairman. On the Montana projects you want the legislation 
 in its entirety as you submitted it to the committee ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there objection to this proviso going in? If 
 not, it is agreed to. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I submit the following justification: 
 
 This provision is believed to be a very desirable one; the present short-term 
 leases tend to the depletion of the land, since there is but little incentive to a 
 lessee to improve land which will so soon be out of his possession. A longer 
 term will enable the lessee to obtain better results from his improvements and 
 will ultimately be to the advantage of the lessor, or at least to the land, and 
 it should be held in mind that the long-term lessee is apt to be a more depend- 
 able man than the short termer. 
 
 On many irrigation projects large areas of the Irrigable allotments consist of 
 inherited lands, which the Indians make no attempt to cultivate, and which, 
 under present conditions, can not be sold at an advantageous price. The actual 
 cultivation and application of water to these lands is essential in order' that 
 the water rights may be protected and held. 
 
 On the Fort Hall Reservation in particular the allotments are in areas of 20 
 acres, and the difficulty in handling allotments of this size lies in the fact 
 that they are too small to be attractive to lessees or to purchasers. The time 
 within which beneficial use of water must be made, generally speaking, is 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 263 
 
 short, and it is felt that this legislation is absolutely necessary in order that 
 such use of the water may be made within the time required. 
 
 Similar authority has been given in special cases. On the Wind River 
 Reservation authority has been given by the act of April 30, 1908 (35 Stat L 
 9T), to lease irrigable lands for a period not exceeding 20 years. It is thought' 
 however, that authority to lease for a period not exceeding 10 years and requir- 
 ing the lessee to improve the land as a part of the rental will be an effective 
 method of preserving the valuable water rights. 
 
 The proposed legislation conforms to the general policy in force and is be- 
 lieved to be necessary for those cases where the Indians have not advanced 
 sufficiently to appreciate the value of their w.-iter rights or the necessity of 
 preserving them; and without such legislation it will be impossible to pre- 
 serve the water rights for a large area of very valuable land. 
 
 Senator Page. What did ^\e do, INIr. Chairman, with the item on 
 page 3, line 21? Was that approved? 
 
 The Chairman. That is approved; for the suppression of traffic 
 in intoxicating liquor among Indians. 
 
 PURCHASE OE GOODS AXD SUPPLIES FOR THE INDIAN SERVICE. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 7, line 7, as follows : 
 
 For the purchase of goods and supplies for the Indian Service, including in- 
 spection, pay of necessary employees, and all other expenses connected there- 
 with, including advertising, storage, and transportation of Indian goods and 
 supplies, $300,000: Provided. That no part of the sum hereby appropriated shall 
 be used for the maintenance of to exceed three warehouses in the Indian 
 Service. ' 
 
 The committee agreed to the following amendment tentatively, to 
 insert between the word " warehouses " and the word " three " the 
 word " permanent," so that the proviso will read : " Provided that no 
 part of the sum hereViy appropriated shall be used fcr the mainte- 
 nance of to exceed three permanent warehouses in the Indian Serv- 
 ice." 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we insert that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is a very material change from the way 
 it passed the House. I do not what your \-iews are on it. 
 
 Senator Lane. Wliy do you want to put the word "permanent" 
 in? 
 
 The Chairsian. That is a department suggestion. Ino member of 
 the committee suggested it. 
 
 Mr.MERiTT. The commissioner suggested, you will recall, that it 
 was advisable to retain one or two warehouses temporarily durmg 
 the shipping season, probably at Omaha and New York, where we 
 now have permanent warehouses. But we can get along with three 
 permanent warehouses. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How many permanent warehouses have we! 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We ha^-e five permanent warehouses now. 
 
 Senator Page. And you propose to discontinue the warehouses at 
 New York and Omaha? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The commissioner and the Secretary have not yet 
 finally decided on that question. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. How many temporary warehouses are main- 
 tained ? , , , 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are maintaining two temporary warehouses---tliree 
 permanent and two temporary. We expect to do away with two ot 
 those temporary warehouses very soon, and only use them two or 
 three months in the year during the shipping season. 
 
264 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that proposed amend- 
 ment being incorporated in the bill? Without objection it will be 
 agreed to. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Our estimate for this item was $350,000, instead of 
 $300,000. There has been a deficiency in this appropriation for a 
 number of years. We are asking for an amount sufficiently large 
 so that we will not have to come back to Congress for deficiencies. 
 We will be glad if that amount could be increased. 
 
 Senator Thompson. At what page is this in your justification? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The item is justified beginning with page 64 of the 
 Plouse hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to the increase in accordance 
 with the estimates of the department ? Is there any discussion ? 
 
 Senator Lane. There are purchases of goods and supplies? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. This appropriation is used for paying all 
 expenses in connection with the purchasing of supplies and main- 
 taining warehouses. 
 
 Senator Lane. It is not for the actual purchase of goods and sup- 
 plies ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Part of the appropriation is used for that purpose. 
 
 Senator Lane. I notice on page 64 of the House hearings an 
 analysis of the expenditures, as follows : 
 
 Salaries, wages, etc J $47,488.99 
 
 TraA-eling expenses 4, 805. 31 
 
 Transportation of supplies 274,434.41 
 
 Heat, light, and power (service) i 310.35 
 
 Telegraph and telephone service 789.37 
 
 Printing, binding, and advertising 745. 67 
 
 Stationery and office supplies 1,328.77 
 
 Fuel 259. 80 
 
 Equipment 204. 69 
 
 Rent 11, 475. 00 
 
 Miscellaneous 160. 35 
 
 Total 342, 002. 71 
 
 I do not know where the supplies are. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. You will notice that a large part of that appropria- 
 tion is used for paying transportation. 
 
 Senator Lane. It seems to be. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The supplies in the Indian Service are purchased 
 largel;^ out of the support fund of the various schools and agencies. 
 This simply provides the machinery for the purpose of purchasing 
 the supplies. We purchase about $4,000,000 worth of goods in the 
 Indian Service each year. 
 
 Senator Lane. Then this is more the expense connected with the 
 distribution of supplies? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes ; it pays the transportation. You notice we had 
 $274,434 for the transportation of supplies. 
 
 Senator Lane. Freight? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Freight; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. Are you going to handle more supplies this year 
 that last year ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We will handle about the same amount of supplies, 
 but if we get this appropriation we will not have the same deficiency 
 we had last year. The deficiency has been between $50,000 and 
 $100,000 for a number of years. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 265 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Just a moment about that. We have increased 
 a great many items in this biU. Of courae, I think we liuve clone 
 right or ATe would not haAe done it, but for a great many years there 
 
 has been an agitation over the question of these A\'arehouses a fi^ht 
 
 made to abolish then>. The fact of the matter is that the ^[embers' in 
 whose districts those warehouses are situated always make a fio-ht— 
 and they are justified, I suppose, in doing so— to maintain them. 
 Some of them are a long way remote from any Indian centers. I 
 very sincerely doubt the advisability of maintaining the present 
 system of warehouses. In the first place, I do not think the inspec- 
 tion of the service that is there performed is efficient. I do not think 
 it amounts to very much. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you not think that the excess of freight between 
 carload rates and less than carload rates would more than eat 
 this up? 
 
 Senator EoBli>-sox. I do not know about that. 
 
 Senator Page. I think it must. "What do yo;i say, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 ill-. Meritt. There is considerable of a dilleronce, of course. 
 
 Senator Page. As I understand it, you gft these goods together 
 from different sources around the warehouse, and then ship them 
 to the different schools and different reservations in carload lots, 
 whereas if you ship them direct from the jilace of manufacture you 
 would save this intervening expense vrb.eio yon take the goods in and 
 inspect them. The rent j'ou would save you would have to pay the 
 difference in the freights. I think the iirst-class freight rate from 
 Boston to Chicago is from ('<() to 70 cents, while on third or fourth 
 class it is abou.t 30 cents. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That may be the theory of it, and doubtless is; 
 but when it comes to the practical operation they do not ship them 
 in carload lots. That is all right, but it does not work out that way. 
 It is all right to urge it, but it does not work out that way. my in- 
 formation is. As a matter of fact, there are very few carload lots 
 shipped to the reservations, and I doubt, although I have not suffi- 
 cient knowledge of it to make an assertion on it, and therefore will 
 not do it, whether there is any material saving of freight by this 
 method of handling those goods. I do not know vhether I could 
 suggest a better one. 
 
 Senator Page. I confess I have no Imowledge about it. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. T\"e are increasing pretty near every item in 
 this bill and it is not desirable to do that, unless it is iniperatively 
 necessary. Of course, Mr. Meritt says there is a deficit in this ap- 
 propriation, but I wonder if it is good policy to increase this. Right 
 at a time when we are contemplating abolishing part of these ware- 
 houses we are appropriating more for their maintenance than we 
 ever have. The department has announced its policy of abolishing 
 some of these warehouses, and at the same time we are urged to 
 make a larger appropriation than we have ever made. I doubt the 
 
 wisdom of that. . „ ^ ^ .^ ,, 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, the entire rent, if I read it correctly, is 
 
 only $11,475. 
 Senator Robinson. Well, that is some rent. ^ . , , 
 
 Senator Page. I know; but as I understand it the warehouses 
 
 form a place where they inspect the goods perhaps more deliberately 
 
266 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 and more carefully than if they sent an inspector to the factory where 
 th^ buy them. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I have said to you, from the investigation I 
 have made of the matter, that the inspection is not efficient. It may 
 be now. I have not looked into it since shortly after Mr. Sells be- 
 came Commissioner of Indian Affairs. But the joint commission 
 was in Chicago at the time an inspection was made by the former 
 assistant commissioner. The view board of commissioners who are 
 especially charged with the duty of making these inspections were 
 not there, and no one representing them, if I remember correctly, 
 was there. I may be mistaken about that, but other members of the 
 commission will correct me if I am. The inspection does not amount 
 to very much. It could be made a means of checking, however. The 
 commissioner detected where by some form of arrangement samples 
 were approved for one line of goods and an inferior quality of goods 
 in a large amount furnished. In that particular instance he com- 
 pelled them to carry out their contract. But it does afford enormous 
 opportunities for graft unless the inspection is very perfect. The 
 commissioner and his assistants can not go and look after those 
 things. They have to have it done by some one else, and the inspec- 
 tion service in the Indian Bureau is very defective and very weak, 
 and as been throughout the entire service. 
 
 I do not know what Mr. Meritt knows about this. I do not know 
 whether it has come within his observation or investigation. He 
 has a multiplicity of details just like the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affairs himself has. I would like to know, Mr. Meritt, whether 
 you have ever looked into the method of inspections that are made 
 at these warehouses? 
 
 Mr. Mbhitt. Yes, sir; I have looked into it to a certain extent. 
 The ideal way to handle the purchase of goods in the Indian Service, 
 in my personal judgment, is to establish one central warehouse at 
 Chicago, buy all goods in large quantities, and have them inspected 
 in that warehouse by experts along particular lines. For example, 
 when we buy leather goods have a leather expert make that investi- 
 gation. That is done now to a certain extent. We have improved 
 the inspection service, and have checked up and refused to receive 
 certain goods that did not come up to the sample. We constantly 
 have to keep on watch to prevent inferior goods being palmed off 
 on the Indian Service. A great many people think that the Indian 
 Service is a service that they can take advantage of and furnish 
 inferior goods. That has been the impression to a certain extent in 
 the past with some people, and we are trying to remove that impres- 
 sion by refusing to accept all goods that do not come up to the 
 standard. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I know that Commissioner Sells was at one 
 time, earlier in his administration, making a vigorous effort to pre- 
 vent those things from occurring, and I remember in one item of 
 leather — ^harness — ^he did detect persons who were sending to the 
 warehouse inferior articles. That does not prevail only in the In- 
 dian Service. It prevails in many State institutions. While I was 
 governor of my State they had a system of purchasing that on a 
 certain day the board in charge, for instance, of the penitentiary 
 would have a meeting and the representatives of houses that had 
 goods to sell were invited to come there and offer their goods and 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 267 
 
 iheir samples. They did this as a matter of practice. The repre- 
 sentatives of the different concerns got together and they agreed 
 I that one certain house should offer shoes at a certain price which 
 f was in excess of the fair price for that sample of shoe. Others would 
 offer similar goods at a higher price, so as to make it certain that 
 the one they had agreed on Avould get the bid. Then he would not 
 bid for anything but shoes. Another man would come along and 
 bid for the material out of which stripes were made. Then when 
 you went to that board meeting you would see 15 or 20 gentlemen 
 sitting around blandly. When you would open the bids you would 
 find five or six bids on each proposition, but just as sure as fate one 
 man would get what he wanted and every other man in the assembly 
 would get what he wanted, and they would compliment the board 
 upon their wise and judicious matter of 'handling the matter, and 
 in the meantime the State had probably lost several thousand dollars. 
 The board felt it was a very efficient body indeed. 
 
 I do not know but what if you do have a system of expert inspec- 
 tion, occasionally they will work in inferior goods. That would hap- 
 pen further down the line. Yrhen they went to fill the orders they 
 would send them down to the man on the farm or the man out at the 
 penitentiary, and the goods would be consumed before the board 
 would ever see them, and that same thing might happen in this 
 inspection. I do not Imow how to prevent it. That is just one of 
 the difficulties inherent in the transaction. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, we have in our State a State purchaser. 
 I had in my employ a man whom I educated, who became a very 
 competent man, and the State stole him away from me and made him 
 State purchaser. He saved the State several thousand dollars. I 
 think the States will eventually get into the idea of having a State 
 purchaser for all the materials wanted by the States. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Of course the success of that plan would de- 
 pend upon the integrity of the officer. If you did not get a good 
 officer the opportunities for graft would be enormous. We had that 
 system in connection with our penal institutions and changed it be- 
 cause the so-called financial agent for the penal institution, who was 
 a very poor man when he became financial agent, and received a salary 
 of only $2,200 a year, developed into a plutocrat and a representative 
 of the aristocracy in a very few years. When they went to abolish 
 his office and put the duties on some one else they found the most 
 ; powerful lobby in the world trying to defeat the legislation, although 
 he was supposed to be a man of mediocre importance. But the office 
 of the financial agent was abolished. That was how the board came 
 to get this new system, from the fact that the former financial agent, 
 to say the least, had not proven very efficient. Then the board de- 
 veloped the system as I have described it. , . . , ^ . , 
 
 Senator White. The same thing happened in industrial enter- 
 prises in our section. The purchasing agent becomes the owner. 
 If you have not an efficient inspection service m this great depart- 
 ment, you should have it. ,1,^1, 1 „„<- f^a 
 
 Senator Robinsox. It is, in my judgment, about the weakest fea- 
 ture of the service, and it is one of the most important, as you say. 
 • Senator White. It is one of the most myitmg fields for graft and 
 fraud on the Government that probably exists. 
 
268 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. We have done what we could here. We have 
 given the department all the money they have asked for inspectors. 
 We have done our duty, at least as far as we can do just now. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do you have much fraud practiced on you in the 
 department ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are checking up very carefully on the purchase of 
 goods at this time. In fact, the purchasers are beginning to com- 
 plain that we are too careful. We send out a letter of instructions 
 to each man who is siiccessful in getting an award, and we tell him 
 very plainly that his goods will not be accepted unless they do come 
 up to the award and sample. 
 
 Senator Lane. You submit a sample of everything, do you not? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; practically everything. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is not hard to check against, a sample. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have the goods purchased inspected by men who 
 are supposed to be experts in their particular line. 
 
 Senator White. Do you change experts occasionally? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have changed a number of experts. 
 
 Senator White. From one department to another? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; also we discourage employing experts in the 
 cities Avhere the goods are purchased. We prefer to get the men 
 from the small towns who are considered level-headed business men 
 rather than experts in the great cities where we purchase the goods. 
 
 Mr. Chairman, there is a proviso that we would like to have incor- 
 porated at the end of line 13, which reads as follows : 
 
 Proiided, That section 3709, Revised Statutes, in so far as that section re- 
 quires that advertisement be made, shall apply only to those purchases and 
 contracts for supplies or services, except personal services, for the Indian field 
 service which exceed in amount the sum of $100 each, and section 23 of the act 
 of June 25, 1910, (36 Stat. L., p. 861), is hereby amended accordingly. 
 
 We are very much hampered by the existing law in making pur- 
 cliases in local communities where we need the goods immediately. 
 For example, an Indian at the beginning of spring farming will 
 make a request on the superintendent for a plow. The Indian has 
 not anticipated his need, neither has the superintendent, as they both 
 should do. Under the law we are required to advertise for a certain 
 number of days, usually 30 or 60, and buy the goods through the 
 warehouse, and by the time the plow gets to the reservation it is too 
 late for the Indian to use it for spring farming. We would like to 
 have this small latitude, not to exceed $100, to enable us to purchase 
 more quickly and eliminate red tape in the purchase of supplies that 
 are needed immediately. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. Do they not exercise that power now on some 
 of the reservations at least? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Only in cases of emergencies. The comptroller has 
 made a very close ruling on that term. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. Of course the reason for it is this: There is 
 nothing to prevent an Indian farmer who actually makes these pur- 
 chases for the Indians from buying a cultivator at one price and 
 charging the Indian another for it, is there, unless there is some 
 publicity about it? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Some inspection. We would check up all these local 
 purchases to see there was no fraud practiced. In the event that 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 269 
 
 there was fraud, we would immediately dismiss the people who were 
 involved in it. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there objection to that proviso. If not, it will 
 be agreed to. 
 
 We have not fixed the amount. We have made su many increases 
 Could you not get along with $300,000 this year? Will you not 
 make a noble effort to do that? 
 
 ilr. Meritt. We ^Yill make a noble effort, as you say, but I am 
 afraid that we will come back with a deficit a little bit later, but we 
 will try very hard to come within the $300,000. 
 
 The CiiAiRiiAN. In the absence of objection, that item is aoreed 
 to at $300,000. ^ 
 
 EXPENSES. BOARD OF INDIAN COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 8, beginning in line 1, 
 as follows: 
 
 For expenses of the Board of Indian Commissioners, $4,000. 
 
 I ask to include in the record a letter I have just received from Mr. 
 Vaux, being a sort of report to the committee of the activities of the 
 Board of Indian Commissioners. 
 
 (The letter referred to is as follows :) 
 
 Department op the Interior, 
 Board of Indian Commissioners, 
 
 Washington, January 18, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst. 
 
 Chairman Senate Cominiltee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, D. 0. 
 
 Mt Dear Senator : In accordance with the verbal arrangements between the 
 clerk of your committee and our secretary, I have the honor to submit herewith 
 a memorandum of recommendations relative to legislation for your considera- 
 tion in connection with the pending Indian appropriation bill. 
 
 In a separate communication I ha^e submitted to you a statement covering 
 the board's work for the present fiscal year. 
 
 On account of your known desire to report the bill at an early date, I am 
 limiting the recommendations to subjects which, in my judgment, are of out- 
 standing Importance. 
 
 For recommendations agreed upon at the board's last regular meeting of the 
 preceding fiscal year, you are referred to pages 7 to 14 of the board's forty- 
 fifth annual report to the Secretary of the Interior, and especially to the recom- 
 mendations under the head of " The Five Civilized Tribes " on page 9, and 
 those under the head of " Recommendations relating to legislation" on page 10 
 and following. 
 
 It is noted -nath gratification that some of the recommendations contained 
 in the board's annual report were included in the estimates of the Secretary 
 of the Interior to the Congress, esiJeclally an item providing for conferring 
 upon the Secretary of the Interior jurisdiction in the matter of leases of re- 
 stricted Indian land in the Five Civilized Tribes, and another amending the law 
 relating to the sale of lumber from the Menominee Indian mills. 
 
 For convenient reference a copy of this letter, a copy of the niemorandum on 
 legislation recommended, and a copy of the last annual report of the board are 
 sent to each member of the committee. 
 
 Cordially, yours, ^^^^^^ ^^^^^ j^._ ahairm<m. 
 
 Memoeandum of Recommendations fob Legislation. 
 
 FIRST, rations. 
 
 The board Is convinced that there is need of decisive leg^lative as well as 
 administrative action to efiCect a radical change m the present ration system. 
 
270 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Almost without exception, the board's investigations on Indian reservations 
 during the past year have disclosed cases of Indians suffering from hunger and 
 destitution. Many of these cases are those of Indians owning valuable allot- 
 ments of land or timber and often entitled to share in large incomes from tile 
 leasing of tribal lands. 
 
 In the emphasis given to encouraging industry among the able-bodied, a 
 most praiseworth aim, and in eagerness to do away with the ration system, an 
 admittedly undesirable system, the old Indian appears to be sidetracked and 
 neglected, and sometimes starved. The report of the Secretary of the Interior 
 to Congress (see H. Doc. 1222, 63d Cong., 2d sess.) shows the expenditure of 
 $6'; 8,811.90 during the fiscal year 1914 for agency and tribal purposes; that is, 
 for salaries and other administrative expenses, from the fund designated 
 " Indian money, proceeds of labor," a fund derived largely from the leasing of 
 tribal lands. It is earnestly recommended that the use of this fund for admin- 
 istrative expenses be prohibited until after the Indians entitled to share in the 
 same are first consulted and given opportunity to vote said funds, where needed, 
 for the support of their aged and infirm. It is firmly believed that all Indian 
 tribes enjoying an income from this source would gladly vote its use for this 
 purpose. While it is realized that it is dlflBcult to provide adequate rations for 
 the deserving old Indians without danger of abuses on the part of those who 
 are undeserving, nevertheless it is the deliberate judgment of the board that 
 there is something radically wrong with a system that will permit old Indians 
 to starve while they have title to funds that are either tied up or directed to 
 other uses. 
 
 We also recommend that the appropriation carried in this bill which Is avail- 
 able for the relief of olci and infirm Indians who have no funds of their own, 
 or for whom other specific appropriations for this purpose are not available, 
 shall be made adequate to meet the needs of this class. 
 
 SECOND. THE FIVE CIVILIZED TEIBES. 
 
 It is earnestly recommended that the pending Indian bill shall be made to 
 include the following provisions affecting the Five Civilized Tribes : 
 
 {a) That section 9 of the act of May 27, 1898 (Stat. L., 165), be amended by 
 cutting out the following phrase, beginning with line 5 of said section : " The 
 court having jurisdiction over the settlement of the estates of said deceased 
 allottee," and substitute therefor, " and by the Secretary of the Interior or some 
 person duly appointed by him." 
 
 (6) That the following item, recommended by the Secretary of the Interior 
 and contained in the estimates to Congress for the fiscal year ending June 30, 
 1916, be included, namely : " That no lease executed by a member or members 
 of the Five Civilized Tribes covering lands from which restrictions from aliena- 
 tion have not been removed shall be valid unless approved by the Secretary of 
 the Interior, or by some officer located in the State of Oklahoma designated by 
 him for that purpose, and under such rules and regulations as the Secretary 
 of the Interior may prescribe." 
 
 The reports of former Commissioner Wright and former Supt. Kelsey for 
 a number of years have emphasized the need of extending the jurisdiction of 
 the Secrtary of the Interior over the leasing of restricted lands in the Five 
 Civilized Tribes. At present leases of surplus land may be made for five years 
 and of homesteads for one year by the Indians without approval of the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior. This power of the Indians to lease without supervision 
 has enabled them to tie up their lands by means of a succession of leases for 
 many years at prices generally inadequate. This deprives the Indian's legal 
 guardian, in the person of the representative of the Secretary of the Interior, 
 of the means of inducing the Indian to farm his land or to sell all or a part of 
 it to advantage, the lease, in fact, becoming a cloud on the title. The law per- 
 mitting the sale of inherited lands of restricted Indians on approval of the 
 State probate courts of Oklahoma is just as mischievous in its effect. The 
 Indian's legal guardian, charged with responsibility for preparing the Indian 
 for citizenship, may find the land of his ward sold just at the time when he 
 could make the land practically useful to said ward. The absurdity of the 
 Government pretending to continue a guardianship over restricted Indians 
 while permitting its wards, either by the direct leasing of their lands or by the 
 sale thereof through a State court, to take out of the hands of the guardian 
 the sole and only instrument which can give the guardianship any real value, 
 would be ludricrous if it were not so serious in its consequences. The laws 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 271 
 
 permitting these absurd and intolerable conditions should be amended Tf tho 
 relief herein recommended is not granted by Congress, we believe that the 
 wrongs and frauds that have been committeed against the Indians of the Five 
 Civilized Tribes, under existing law, constitute sufficient justification for a 
 complete retaking by the l-aderal Government of the jurisdiction over the 
 affairs of the restricted Indians of the Five C'villzed Tribes 
 
 For other recommendations of the board relati\e to the Five Civilized Tribes 
 see page 9 of the board's forty-fifth annual report; also the paragranh on civil' 
 service under the head, " Recommendations referring to legislation," on page 10. 
 
 THIRD. THE OSAGE INDIANS. 
 
 Attention is particularly invited to the reconimendatiiin made bv the Ixnrd 
 to your committee last year and repeated in its forty-fifth annual report' at 
 the bottom of page 12, that the act of April IS, 1912, Public ^'() I'^r, providin"- 
 for the probate of the estates of the Osage Indians in the State courts of Okla°- 
 homa, be repealed. Recent information which h:is eouu' to the board's atten- 
 tion indicates that the full-blood Indians of the Osace Reservation are displeased 
 with this law and that it is resulting in unreasonable cost, if not absolute fraud 
 in its operation. ' 
 
 FOUETH. WAREHOUSE. 
 
 (fl) It is recommended that the pro^iso limiting the appropriation for pur- 
 chase of goods and supplies for the Indian Service to the maintenance of not 
 to exceed three warehouses in the Indian Service, be eliminated from the Indian 
 bill as it passed the .House of Representatives. The law imposes sjiecial duties 
 upon the Board of Indian Commissioners with respect to this subject, and the 
 board's chairman has given It careful study and consideration. It is not be- 
 lieved that the proposed reduction in the number of permanent warehouses will 
 result either in economy or efliciency. The views of the board are fully set 
 forth in paragraph No. 4, on page 11, of its forty-fifth annual report, and in 
 paragraph No. 6, on page 419, of Part I, Hearings before the Committee on 
 Indian Affairs, United States Senate, Sixty-third Congress, second session, on 
 H. R. 12579. 
 
 (6) The estimates to Cousress for appropriations for the Indian Service con- 
 tained a provision that section 3709, Revised Statutes, requiring advertisement 
 before purchase may be made, should apply only to purchases over $100. The 
 House Committee on Indian Affairs eliminated this item from the bill. The 
 chairman of the board is in accord with the action of the House committee 
 in this matter. It is not believed that the waiving of the requirement of adver- 
 tising would have the effect of preventing the present delays in completing pur- 
 chases for Indian schools and agencies, while it undoubtedly would let down 
 the bars to extravagance and remove a protection needed by the field superin- 
 tendent. In a recent investigation of this subject, which has not yet been re- 
 ported to the Secretary of the Interior, it has been found that the chief cause 
 for delay in the purchase of Indian supplies, is in connection with the regulations 
 of the Indian Bureau, requiring superintendents to obtain authorities previous 
 to completing purchases. 
 
 FIFTH. INDIAN SCHOOLS. 
 
 We strongly urge that the estimates of the Secretary of the Interior for all 
 Indian schools be retained in the Indian bill. In our judgment any reduction 
 in those items will not be for the best interest of the Indians. 
 
 SIXTH. PEYOTE. 
 
 The board is convinced that legisaltion for the suppression of the use of peyote 
 among Indians should have the earnest jind early consideration of your com- 
 mittee. This subject has been referred to Commissioner Dockweiler for special 
 investigation and report at our next regular meeting on February 2, 1915, at 
 which time it is probable the board will have further definite recommendation 
 to present for your consideration. 
 
 SEVENTH. APPROPRIATIONS RECOMMENDED IN THE REPORT OF COMMISSIONER ELIOT. 
 
 Quinaielt Reservation.— $10,000 for the construction of a road from Point 
 Granville to Tahola; $1,500 for the construction of a bridge crossing the 
 Moclips River, on condition that the county commissioners of JefCerson county 
 
272 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 pay $1000, the balance of tlie estimated cost; an appropriation sufficient to 
 build revetment along the Quinaielt liiver to protect Government property at 
 
 Tula'lip School, TTa.s7i.— $10,000 for five new cottages for employees; $15,000 
 for a hospital ; $25,0t)0 for an additional dormitory ; $5,000 for the construction 
 of a new laundrv building; $8,000 for a gymnasium; $5,000 for a carpenter and 
 blacksmith shop'; purchase of 100 acres of land near Port Gamble for 40 Indian 
 families. 
 
 Chcmawa School, Wash.— ^SflOO for four new cottages for employees; an 
 appropriation sufficient to build a new office building; an appropriation suf- 
 ficient to construct a subway under the Southern Pacific Railroad at Chemawa 
 School, on condition that the railroad bear half the expense, to provide against 
 present danger to life of pupils who are compelled to cross railrad tracks in 
 going to their classes. 
 
 California.— ^30,000 to provide homes for 2,000 landless Indians in northern 
 California ; an appropriation sufficient to provide for the education of 1,000 
 Indian children in northern California who are getting no education; an appro- 
 priation sufficient to provide for 800 or more old and helpless Indians in nortti- 
 ern California. 
 
 EIGHTH. MISCELLANEOUS. 
 
 In addition to the above recommendations, your attention is respectfully 
 invited to the board's recommendations on irrigation, paragraph 2; forestry, 
 paragraph 3 ; inspection of oil and gas wells in Oklahoma, paragraph 7 ; Navaho 
 Indians, paragraph 10, on pages 10, 11, and 12 of the board's forty-fifth annual 
 report. Also to the suggestions and recommendations from missionaries and 
 others, found on pages i3 and 14 of the same report. 
 
 Department of the Inteeioe, 
 
 Board of Indian Commissioners, 
 1606 llorriss Building, Philadelphia, Pa., January 19, 1915. 
 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashubst, 
 
 Chairman Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, D. G. 
 
 ilY Dear Senator: I take pleasure in submitting herewith for the informa- 
 tion of your committee a brief statement of the work performed by the Board 
 of Indian Commissioners from July 1 to December 31, 1914, and the expenditure 
 of public funds made in connection therewith ; also a statement of the work 
 projected for the remainder of the fiscal year and an estimate of the cost 
 thereof. An examination of this statement will show that the $10,000 appro- 
 priated last year for the expenses of the board will all be used. The present 
 plans of the board for the coming fiscal year contemplate the .investigation of 
 important matters which will require the ai^propriation of at least an equal 
 sum. rhese plans the board, at your pleasure, will be glad to present in detail 
 to your committee at any during the first week in February, after Tuesday, 
 February 2, when it will hold its annual midwinter meeting in Washington. 
 
 For the convenience of your committee a copy of this letter and the attached 
 memorandum are set to each member. 
 Cordially, yours, 
 
 George A'"aux, Jr.. Chairman. 
 
 Memorandum showing the ivork performed or projected 'by the Board of Indian 
 
 Commissioners for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1915, and the actual or 
 estimated cost of the same. 
 
 EXPENDED UP TO DEO. 31, 1914. 
 
 Office: 
 
 Salaries of secretary and clerical assistants $2, 190. 08 
 
 Incidental expenses ]16. 51 
 
 Field : 
 
 Western Washington, Oregon, and northern California 375. 36 
 
 Fort Peck and Flathead 319.28 
 
 Canada 480. 90 
 
 Travel of members to meetings of the board 531.13 
 
 Total actual expenses July 1, 1914, to Dec. 31, 1914 4,013.26 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIAHON BILL. 273 
 
 ESTIMATED EXPENSES FKOM JAN. 1 TO JUNE 30, 1915. 
 
 Office: 
 
 Salaries of secretary and clerical assistants $2, 150. 00 
 
 Printing 900.00 
 
 Incidental expenses 125. 00 
 
 Field : 
 
 Proposed investigation of three Ute Indian reservations 750. 00 
 
 Proposed investigation in Wisconsin, and possibly other neigh- 
 
 ■ boring States 300.00 
 
 Proposed investigation of New York Indians 225. 00 
 
 Proposed investigation in Oklahoma 300. 00 
 
 Probable investigiitions in California .".nd the Southwest 275. 00 
 
 Visitation lettings (two warehouses) • 300.00 
 
 Traveling expenses to regular and special meetings of the board 
 
 and special committee assignment 661. 71 
 
 Total estimated expenses Jan. 1 to June 80, 1915 5, 986. 74 
 
 Total 10, 000. 00 
 
 OFFICE INVESTIGATIONS. 
 
 Open-market purchases. — The chairman of the board has personally directed 
 Rii investigation of open-market purchases with the view to determining the 
 causes of unreasonable delays in the purchase and delivery of supplies at the 
 various Indian schools and agencies, and will soon make recommendations to 
 the Secretary of the Interior concerning the same, which, if adopted, it is 
 believed, will promote eflficiency and economy in that branch of the field Indian 
 Service. 
 
 Subject of ta.ration of Indian lands. — A very diflBcnlt and complex piece of 
 work has been undertaken by the board in the investigation of the sub.iect of 
 taxation of Indian lands, or rather an investigation to determine the loss to the 
 various States by reason of the nontaxability of restricted Indian lands, and 
 the probable effect thereof on the Indians. It is believed that this is one of the 
 most important subjects which the Board of Indian Commissioners has under- 
 taken and that Its results will prove beneficial to the interests of the Indians of 
 the country and be of interest and value to Congress. 
 
 Rental of Indian lands. — During the present year data will also be assembled 
 in the matter of rental income on Indian lands and income from interest on 
 Individual Indian money. It is believed that this investigation may result in a 
 plan for placing the administration of these matters, at least partially, on a 
 self-supporting basis and relieving Congress of the necessity of appropriating 
 several hundred thousand dollars for adminii^tration each year. 
 
 FIELD WORK. 
 
 Investigation of Indian conditions in Washington, Oregon and northern 
 California ly Commissioner SZiot.— Commissioner Eliot spent from October ^ 
 to December 5 in a careful study of conditions among the Indians m the 1 uget 
 Sound eountrv. and esp(K'inlly on the Quinaielt Reservation y'fted the non- 
 reservation schools in Washington and Oregon, and made a brief in^stigat on 
 of the affairs of the Indians of northern California. His report whch has 
 just been submitted to the chairman of the board, is a most constructive and 
 comprehensive treatment of the subject. The plan ^"bmitted by him foi cor 
 reeling existing evils among the Indians in the ^"gf^ Sound country is 
 especially worthy of consideration by the Committee on ^'^^^^^J^f''^%.^^^^. 
 
 Investigation If Flathead Jic.rrvatiun,^ -''^^'''rr.'.J^hnr thft mrt felat n^'to 
 A small part of the report of CNmrnissioner I^etchaui t|^^t art relating to 
 homestead settlement on the Flathead Reservation, has nlieafl, beea prmted 
 
 for use by the Committee on Public Lands of the Ui"^*^^ ,,^'"*^„^,,''®™[ms reser! 
 sections recommend imi.ortant changes i^.^dministrative me hods on this leser 
 
 vation. Increased rations for the old Indums; "f '"e^X^ 'f„^n ."^^^'^'e^^^^^ 
 change in the present policy of appropriations for ngation need oicn.ng 
 in the present method of selling and leasing Indian lands Md the neeao 
 saving timber lands for the Indians, many of whom ?^>ll^°°^g^^J°'''^]^X was 
 ' are some of the more important subjects discussed m this leport, wnicn w 
 transmitted to the Secretary of the Interior December 30, 1914. 
 82833— VOL 1—15 18 
 
274 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Investigation of Fort Peck Reservation, Mont., by Commissioner Eetoham.— 
 The more Important recommeuclations in this report relate to tlie needs of pro- 
 moting tlie^ cattle industry; of increased rations for the old Indians; of a 
 change in the present methods of handling " Indian money, proceeds of labor " ; 
 and of a plan for developing future irrigation on this reservation under a unit 
 system, taking water only to the Indians who will use it. This report was 
 transmitted to the Secretary of the Interior on December 30, 1914. 
 
 Investigation of Canadian Indian administration. — Believing that there are 
 certain fundamental defects in some of the legislative and administrative 
 methods in connection with Indian affairs in the United States which might be 
 corrected, at least .partially, by a comparative study of the Canadian system, 
 the board, after referring the matter to the Secretary of the Interior, sent its 
 secretary to Canada for that purpose, his trip covering the period from August 
 24 to October 14. The report of this investigation, which extended from the 
 Province of Quebec to Calgary, and included a thorough study of methods of 
 procedure in the headquarters office at Ottawa, has just been completed and 
 will soon be ready for transmittal to the Secretary of the Interior and to 
 Congress. 
 
 PROPOSED FIELD INWSTIGATIONS FOE THE EEMAINDEE OF THE PRESENT FISCAL TEAR. 
 
 Some of the most important of the field investigations planned by the, board 
 for the present fiscal year are yet to be made. These include investigations of 
 the three Ute reservations and the New York Indians, where important treaty 
 relations, as well as questions of correct administrative method, are to be con- 
 sidered. There are also Important educational and land questions in California 
 which will be given further attention, and one or two reservations in Arizona, 
 if time and funds permit, will be investigated. Investigations of conditions on 
 Wisconsin reservations and in Oklahoma have already been authorized, and 
 one of them is now under way. 
 
 The Chairman. What will you do with this item, Senators? 
 Senator Robinson. It will have to be agreed to, I suppose. 
 Senator La Follette. I trust that will not be done at this time. 
 The Chairman. Do you want it to go over, Senator ? 
 Senator La Follette. Yes ; I want it to go over. 
 The Chairman. The item will go over. 
 
 PAY or SPECIAL AGENTS, INDIAN SERVICE. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is on page 8, line 10, as follows: 
 
 For pay of special agents at $2,000 per annum; for traveling and incidental 
 expenses of such special agents, including sleeping-car fare, and per diem of 
 not to exceed $3 in lieu of subsistence in the discretion of the Secretary of the 
 Interior when actually employed on duty in the field or ordered to the seat of 
 government; for transportation and incidental expenses of officers and clerks 
 of the Office of Indian Affairs when traveling on official duty; for pay of em- 
 ployees not otherwise provided for ; and for other necessary expenses of the 
 Indian Service for which no other appropriation is available, $100,000. 
 
 That is estimated at $135,000, and the House agreed to $100,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This is one item where we would be very seriously 
 crippled if we can not get our estimate. The item is justified on 
 page 74 of the House hearings. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection that will be agreed to. I 
 think the general purpose of the committee is to give you all in- 
 spection facilities required. 
 
 Senator Page. The kink in that tail is, " for other necessary ex- 
 penses of the Indian Service for which no other appropriation is 
 available." It covers a multitude of sins. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is the reason why this appropriation is so im- 
 portant. There are constantly coming up to the department urgent 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 275 
 
 cases where we have got to meet the situation and we have no specific 
 appropriation available. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Give us an illustration of what that means. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Take, for example, an Indian will come to "Washing- 
 ton and will incur a board bill here. He will go broke. He has no 
 means of getting back to his reservation. He is a ward of the Gov- 
 ernment, and he is here on the hands of the Indian Bureau. It is 
 necessary that we pay his transportation back home. That is one 
 illustration. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it necessary to do that if he comes without any 
 request on your part? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They do occasionally come here without first notify- 
 ing us. We discourage that practice, but it frequently occurs. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What else can you do? Of course you do not 
 want to encourage them to come here, but when they are here you 
 can not let them go to the workhouse. 
 
 Senator Page. What I fear is that if the Indian understands that 
 he will have a junket. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. As a matter of fact, of course, that usually 
 ought to be paid out of the tribal funds. If the tribal funds were 
 chargeable with it they would probably prevent so many junkets of 
 that sort. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Of course a large number of the Indian tribes have 
 no funds to their credit. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Oh, yes ; of course, that is just one illustration. 
 
 Senator Page. Would you have the right to charge the tribal 
 funds the expense of an Indian who came here witLout request and 
 who happened to be stranded ? 
 
 Mr. mWtt. No, sir; the funds in the Treasury would not ordi- 
 narily be available for that purpose. 
 
 Another example, Senator, would be a case where a buildmg had 
 been damaged, and there was no other appropriation available. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. A school building that was being occupied by 
 
 a school ? • • ■ i-r, 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; or any emergency that might arise m the 
 
 Indian Service. 
 
 The Chaieman. Is there anv objection to that item? 
 
 Senator Thompson. I was going to ask, m view of the tact that 
 there is $11,600 unexpended, why could we not make that $125,0UU f 
 That would be some saving. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We will try to get along with $125,000. 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection the item will De 
 agreed to at $125,000. 
 
 SUPPLY or W^ATER FOR PAPAGO I>-DIAN VILLAGES, ARIZ. 
 
 • The Chairman. I want to ask the committee to give me ™animou^ 
 consent to put into the record a rather lengthy .communication from 
 the Secretary of the Interior in regard to the eight Papago villages. 
 Senator Eobinson. Why? , -, -.^^i ^f j- 
 
 t The Chairman. Because it is going to provoke a good deal o± dis- 
 cussion, and we can turn to it in the debate on the Iloor. 
 
276 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 (The letter referred to, with accompanying map/ is as follows:) 
 
 Department of the Intebiob, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, . 
 
 My Dear Senator : I have tlie bonor to Invite your attention to ttie follow- 
 in" item originally in the pending Indian bill, but stricken out by the Senate: 
 
 " For improvement and sinking of wells, installation of pumping machiuery, 
 construction of tanks for domestic and stock water, and for the necessary 
 structures for the development of a supply of water for domestic use for eight 
 Papago Indian villages in southern Arizona, $20,000. (H. R. 12579, p. 21, 
 
 '°ft appears from the Senate debate on this item (Cong. Eec, June 22-23, 1014, 
 pp. 11840-11843, 11915-11917) that this action -s^'as taken owing to certain 
 objections to the item in its present form. 
 
 In view of the fact that this project is vitally important to the welfare of 
 the Indians in these villages, I submit below further information in the 
 premises a portion thereof being taken from report of House hearings on tlie 
 Indian appropriation bill (pp. 322-326) and repeated here for your con- 
 venience : 
 
 statistics eight papago villages. 
 
 Census, 1918 vrv. ^.'^^ 
 
 Present irrigable area Undetermined. 
 
 Irrigated area, acres ^^^"' ''^ 
 
 Acres under completed project Depends upon water found. 
 
 Acres cultivated by Indians 873.7 
 
 Acres cultivated by whites ^ None. 
 
 Value of irrigated land per acre__ . -flOO 
 
 Expended to June 30. 1913 Nothing. 
 
 Estimate for fiscal year, 1915 $35,600 
 
 Cost of completed project $85,000 
 
 The Indians of this territory have had little or no aid from the Government, 
 and are a bright and energetic people, for Indians. Their principal source of 
 revenue is that of stock raising, and this could be made a source of much 
 greater revenue for them if it were not for the fact that the water supply for 
 use of the stoc!^ is very limited and hard to obtain. Frequently the feed is 
 ample in a locality, but water is at such great distance that stock can not 
 subsist. The estimate on this contemplates the sinking of wells, or the improve- 
 ment of those already constructed, the installation of a pump and *!mall dis- 
 tillate engine, the construction of excavated tanks for domestic and stock 
 water, and the erection of a small structure over the pump and engine. 
 
 There are eight villages which are much in need of these improvements. 
 Others might in the future require the same. The villages included are: 
 
 Name. 
 
 Location. 
 
 Popula- 
 tion. 
 
 Culti- 
 vated 
 acreage. 
 
 
 T. 8S.,R. 4S 
 
 T.8S.,R.6E.... 
 T.SS.,R.5E.... 
 T. 9S.,R. 6K.... 
 T. 10 S., R. 4E... 
 T. inS.,R. 4E... 
 T. 12S., R. 3E... 
 T.]2S.,R.3E... 
 
 200 
 200 
 75 
 100 
 150 
 100 
 200 
 400 
 
 200 
 
 rhiu-Chiuschu 
 
 1S8 
 
 Ko-Opke 
 
 104 
 
 Taht-Mohmeli 
 
 50 
 
 •Komelili ^ 
 
 Qua'oti 
 
 4 
 245 
 
 Anefram 
 
 218 
 
 
 294 
 
 
 
 The cost of individual pumping plants is estimated as follows: 
 
 Sinking well, 6 inches diameter, 200 feet, at $5 
 
 Pump 
 
 Gas engine 
 
 Domestic water-storage tank 
 
 Stock water-storage tank 
 
 Structures, buildings for pump, engines, etc 
 
 Engineering and incidentals 
 
 Total- 
 
 1 Not printed. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 277 
 
 This project is entirely distinct from the $50,000 item for similar work on the 
 Papago Reservation, and can have no eftect whatever upon the water suddIv 
 of the city of Tucson, which has an elevation of 2,3S7 feet as will be noted 
 from the map attached hereto. These villages are located 75 miles north and 
 west of Tucson at considerably lower elevation, ranging from 1450 to 1800 
 feet. The designation. "Nomadic Papagos," is perhaps something of a mis- 
 nomer for these particular Indians, as they have resided in said villages for 
 many years, only leaving them temporarily when forced to do so by lack of 
 water. By rude methods they have developed a small water supply from shal- 
 low hand-dug wells only sufficient for their barest necessities. 
 
 An exhaustive report has been received in regard to water conditions among 
 these Indians, and for your information there is attached hereto copy of ex- 
 tracts from that portion thereof relating to the eight villages in question, three 
 of which are located on land already reserved for their exclusive benefit, viz : 
 Cockleburr, Ko-Opke, and Taht-Mohmell. 
 
 Many of these Indians own a few head of stock and cultivate small tracts 
 of land. It will be noted that rudely constructed wells already exist in a 
 number of these villages, and if the present wells can be improved, enlarged, 
 and properly cased, other wells dug, and pumping plants installed as contem- 
 plated such action will contribute very materially to their well-being, and in 
 fact is absolutely essential to their progress. Under present conditions it is 
 extremely difficult for many of these Indians to maintain themselves and 
 families, owing to the lack of an adequate water supply for domestic and stock 
 purposes. 
 
 In conclusion I most earnestly recommend that this item be reinserted 
 in the bill, for the following reasons: An additional water supply is vitally 
 necessai-y to the welfare and progress of the Indians in these villages; this 
 project can have no effect whatever upon the water supply of the city of 
 Tucson, the villages being located about 75 miles north and west thereof, at 
 much lower elevation; and the contemplated withdrawal of the lands therein, 
 not already reserved for the Indians, will not reduce the area of public 
 domain available for homestead entry in that section, as the Indians' right 
 of occupancy and use in a number of cases, almost from time immemorial, 
 would be recognized in any event as against other parties, whether or not 
 the land is ever formally set aside exclusively for such purposes by Executive 
 order or otherwise. 
 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Cato Sells, Commissioner. 
 
 Hon. Henby F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Imlian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 Cockleburr.— This village is 141 miles southwest of Case Grande on the old 
 Vekol Road. These are the most thrifty and prosperous of any of the Papagos 
 yet visited, which prosperity I attribute to a better water supply * * * than 
 many of the other villages have. 
 
 Domestic water supply for this village is furnished by two wells 150 feet m 
 depth, with 4 or 5 feet of water. These wells being open— the box or curb- 
 ing supporting the windlass being crude open affairs in poor repair—the 
 wells are exposed to dust, dirt, and reptiles. None of the wells are walled up 
 or Uned, and earth from some of the softer strata is continually disintegrating 
 and falling into the wells. All these causes render the water supply anything 
 but pure and wholesome. .__ ... „ 
 
 It is suggested that one of the first things done should be the protection of 
 these wells and the installation of a quicker and more adequate method of 
 drawing water. I am told, on good authority, that several head of In^ 
 sock-horses and cattle-die every summer from lack of water, and I know 
 that there is great suftering among the stock from this cause " P:™ps, 
 tanks, and watering troughs could be installed at these wells, it J^o^l^ con^ 
 tribute more to the health, cleanliness, etc., of these Indians than anything 
 
 ^lm.MohmeU.-Tins vUlage is U miles southwest of tl^^ J^-^^fi^^.^i* ^el^^- 
 These Indians are in a condition bordering on destitution. They Ji^ve few fields 
 as their supply of water for irrigation is small and uncertain. This supp^? i| 
 obtained by a system of storm-water ditches which mtercept the branches or 
 
278 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 a small wash flowing through the village and cnrry it to the fields. Their crops 
 this season are nearly a total failure. Their white neighbors state they are 
 lionest and industrious. Some of them are employed at the near-by mines when 
 these are operating. 
 
 Few, if any, of these people have attended school. There is only one person 
 in the village who can speak any English. 
 
 Water for domestic use and for stock is obtained from a well 84 feet in depth. 
 This well, like the ones at Vahiwavaw or Cockleburr, is open, is not walled 
 up or lined, and some of the softer strata are sloughing ofC and caving badly. 
 
 Chiuchiu. — Chiuchlu is one of the largest and most populous of the Indian 
 villages along the Santa Cruz and tributaries. Although their water supply is 
 small and uncertain, these Indians seem to enjoy some degree of prosperity. 
 Their land is vei7 fertile and nearly all of the fields have produced fairly 
 good crops this season. These people show considerable skill and industry in 
 the cultivation of their fields and in irrigating them. Many of the fields are 
 surrounded by le\-ees for the purpose of holding the water until it thoroughly 
 soaks into the ground. The principal crops are corn, cane, beans, squashes, 
 melons, etc. 
 
 Several of these Indians have attended school, and speak English. A mission 
 is maintained by the Catholic Church. 
 
 Water for domestic use and for stock is obtained from two wells, 57 feet and 
 60 feet deep, respectively. Like all the others, these wells are open and water 
 is drawn in buckets. I 
 
 Quajoti. — This" village is about 7 miles west of the Jack Rabbit mine and 
 about 4 miles east of the Reward mine. Water or domestic purposes is obtained 
 from a well about 210 feet in depth, which was dug by these people about 15 
 years ago. 
 
 Komelih. — ^This village is about 7 miles southwest of the Jack Rabbit mine 
 A well 160 feet deep was dug by whites in 1884-85 for station on the Quijotoa 
 road. The Indians moved In after the well was abandoned by the whites. 
 Very little land, only a few garden patches, are in cultivation at this place, 
 aggregating about 4 or 5 acres. 
 
 Ko-opJce. — This settlement is a short distance from the main road from Case 
 Grande to the Jack Rabbit mine. There are in cultivation about 100 acres, irri- 
 gated by storm water from the surrounding territory. The water supply is de- 
 ficient and uncertain. Domestic water is obtained from a well 78 feet in depth. 
 
 Anegam. — This village, usually called Upper Santa Rosa, is about 16 miles 
 fcouthwest of the Jack Rabbit mine. Water is obtained from a wash of consid- 
 erable size that emerges from the Sheridan Mountains a short distance west o£ 
 the village. The wash from which the water is obtained has a loose gravelly 
 bottom and there is probably a considerable underflow. Water for domestic 
 use and for stock is conserved In a tank or small reservoir. There is no well 
 at this place, and the tank from which the domestic supply is secured Is very 
 Insanitary, as it is not fenced in, and all the Indians' cattle and horses secure 
 water from the same source. 
 
 Santa Rosa. — This is the largest and most populous of the Indian villages of 
 the Santa Rosa Valley. Aside from being the most prosperous, It is probably 
 one of the oldest. Near the village there are the remains of many ditches and 
 tanks, said to be the remains of prehistoric irrigation systems. In the imme- 
 diate vicinity also there have been found pottery and remains of weapons and 
 implements supposed to have belonged to the ancient Aztecs. 
 
 There is no well here, and water for domestic use and the supply for the live 
 stock is taken from the same tank. This tank is not fenced in and is very in- 
 sanitary. The supply was practically exhausted in October, 1912, and these 
 people were hauling water from Anegam and from Brownell. 
 
 CONSTETJCTION OF DAM, GILA EIVEE, ARIZ. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is an Arizona item, to be inserted 
 at the bottom of page 13. The House left it out, but it is estimated 
 for. The item is as follows: 
 
 For beginning the construction of a dam and necessary controlling works for 
 diverting water from the Gila River for the Irrigation of Indian land and allot- 
 ments on the Gila River Indian Reservation, Ariz., as recommended by the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 279 
 
 Board of Engineers of the United States Army in paragraph 217 of its report 
 to the Secretary ot War of February 14, 1914 (H. Doc. No. 791)° $50 (KK) to 
 remain availnble until expended, reimbursable as Congress may hereafter pro- 
 vide, the total cost not to exceed $160,000. cieaxuei pio 
 
 The item is justified on page 127 of the House hearings. 
 
 Senator Eobinsox. Is that exclusively an Indian project or does it 
 irrigate the white lands also? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt It is for the exclusive use of Indians on the Gila 
 Eeservation. There are no white owners of land on that reservation. 
 
 Senator Eobixson. Are you satisfied it is a good project? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is very important, Senator, and it will increase the 
 irrigable area of that reservation materially. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. It is reimbursable? 
 
 Mr. ]\Ieeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chaiebian. As Congress may hereafter provide. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Eeed, of the Irrigation Service, is here, and if 
 there are any questions to ask he will be glad to answer them. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What is the area to be irrigated under this 
 system ? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. This dam is just above the agency and would make avail- 
 able the canal originally built by the Eeclamation Service. At the 
 present time that canal and the whole system for which the Eeclama- 
 tion Service spent considerable money, is not available except in high 
 floods. This dam is simply a low diversion dam for the purpose of 
 making available the work previously constructed, and the limita- 
 tions of irrigation f lom this dam are only by limitation of the water 
 available. You can irrigate not only on the north side, but it is easy 
 to divert the water onto the south side and cover the present lands 
 about the headwaters and on down through the Casa Blanca coun- 
 try, and as I said before, only limited by the amount of water 
 available. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. What would be the total amount required to 
 increase this ? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. For this dam itself the estimate is $160,000. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. I know, but does this make necessary other ex- 
 penditures? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. None except the South Side and connection with what 
 is known as the Little Gila, perhaps 2 miles, and such extension at 
 the lower end as we find there is available water for. The ditch, 
 however, at the present time is constructed so it will cover a number 
 of thousand acres, perhaps even to the limit of the available water, 
 unless the San Carlos Eeservoir is built. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Do" you know what the Eeclamation Service 
 has expended there? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I can not say readily what is expended on this Particu- 
 lar canal. It is a canal that has been under discussion a good deal, 
 known as the Flood Water Canal, built with concrete blocks an-s 
 structures of all kinds, and extends over quite a large territory. Itic 
 Indian Service has quite a bit of its funds hypothecated there for 
 this and for the subsidiary structures, such as wells and pumps, ana 
 so forth. I believe we have not an accurate separation ot the charges 
 there now. I think they are in the Eeclamation Service, but not 
 with us. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. I know of no objection. 
 
280 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Can you approximate the amount of out- 
 lay there which this expenditure would make available and service- 
 able, which otherwise would be of very little benefit to the lands ? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I could only guess right now. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes; I imagine it would be only a rough 
 approximation. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I would say that there is perhaps $150,000 worth of 
 construction that would be made more available by this expenditure. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to this item? If not, it 
 will be agreed to. 
 
 Senator Page. You say this is a deserving item, do you ? 
 
 The Chairman. I do. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I move that we adjourn now until 10.30 o'clock 
 to-morrow. 
 
 (The motion to adjourn was agreed to, and the committee, at 1 
 o'clock p. m., adjourned until to-morrow, Friday, January 22, 1915, 
 at 10.30 o'clock a. m. ) 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 FRIDAY, JANUARY 22, 1915. 
 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjournment 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, Page, and Gronna- 
 
 also Mr. E. B. Meritt, Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs. ' 
 
 WITHHOLMXGS FROM ALLOTJIENTS, CREEK NATION. 
 
 The CHAiRirAx. I have a letter from Mr. W. V. Th-aves dated 
 January 21, 1915. He stated that he represents some people, that 
 the opposition to him was heard by the committee, and asks that he 
 be accorded the privilege of being heard. 
 
 The letter is as follows : 
 
 Washington, D. C, January 21, 1915. 
 Hon. Henky F. Ashttrst, 
 
 Ghalrnian, United States Senate. Washington, D. G. 
 
 llT Dear Sir : I tiereby request on behalf of the Creek Indian citizens affected 
 by House joint resolution 380, withholding from allotment the unallotted lands 
 or public domain of the Creek Nation or Tribe of Indians and providing for 
 the sale thereof, and for other purposes, that your honcirable committee give me 
 the opportunity of being heard in their behalf in this matter. I would suggest 
 in this regard that the Committee on Indian Affairs of the House of Representa- 
 tives has seen fit to give the representatives of these Indians affected by this 
 legislation the opportunity of presenting their side of this matter and now has 
 same under consideration. It will be remembered by your committee that 
 Judge R. 0. Allen, Creek national attorney, has been heard by you in behalf of 
 this resolution. Therefore I request that you hear the attorneys for these 
 Indians who are so seriously affected by this legislation, and which, if passed, 
 will deprive them of the right that have been enjoyed by more than 18,000 of 
 their fellow tribemen. 
 
 With much respect, I am. 
 
 Tours, very truly, W. V. Thkaves. 
 
 If there is no objection the committee will hear you, Mr. ThraVes, 
 for 10 minutes. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. I would like, may it please the chairman and the 
 committee, to have as many of the committee present as possible — a 
 quorum at least — unless you get too deeply in other business. I have 
 a brief on this matter. 
 
 The Chairman. What you say will be reported stenographically, 
 you know. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. This is simply an application for the hearmg. If 
 you could give me, and the other attorneys associated with me in 
 this matter, sufficient time to present it we will be very much 
 pleased. I presume it will take something like an hour to properly 
 pr6SGiit/ it 
 
 The Chairman. If the committee wishes to hear you an hour, that 
 is a matter for it to decide. 
 
282 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Page. Is this a matter that will go out on a point of order 
 in the Senate? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. This is joint resolution No. 380, introduced by 
 Senator Owen, and in the House by Mr. Murray of Oklahoma. 
 
 Senator Page. Let me ask you: Is this the case where some oil 
 lands have been withdrawn because of their great value? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. It is the case where some four citizens are left who 
 have been deprived of their rights in the Creek Nation — not their 
 right as between the nation and themselves, for the nation concedes 
 that they are citizens of the nation and properly enrolled, but they 
 were unfortunate enough to have contests with other citizens over 
 other pieces of land which the Government had given them before. 
 
 Senator Page. Was it oil land? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. Those lands have been proven to be worth $1,000,000 
 or so, have they not? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. And the question is whether those allotments should 
 be canceled or not? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Whether or not these people's rights have attached. 
 
 Senator Page. It seems to me that we are probably introducing 
 legislation in an appropriation bill. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Meritt, was it estimated for? Is that the 
 language of your estimate? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; that item was not estimated by the office, 
 but the office is heartily in favor of that legislation. 
 
 Senator Page. A point of order will be made, no doubt. If it 
 is made, and it is going to be general legislation, it seems to me that 
 we ought not to take up time with it now. 
 
 The Chairman. That is what we want to determine. Mr. Meritt, 
 ha^'e you a letter to the committee that I can put into the record 
 in the shape of an estimate, urging the legislation ? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. You will find that Mr. Davenport introduced a bill 
 for the cancellation of these allotments, asking for the appropriation 
 of $25,000 to enable the Government to cancel the allotments. That 
 was done on behalf of Judge Allen, too. 
 
 The Chairiian. The item you wish to be heard on reads as follows: 
 
 Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of 
 America in Congress assembled, That tbe unallotted land or public domain of 
 the Creek Nation or tribe of Indians, including any land the title to which has 
 been or may be recovered for the Creek Nation in any pending or other suit or 
 otherwise, be, and the same is hereby, withheld from allotment to members of 
 said nation or tribe, and that the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, 
 authorized, in his discretion, to cause such land to be sold or leased for the 
 benefit of the Creek Nation or tribe of Indians under such rules and regulations 
 as he may prescribe, the proceeds of such sale or lease to be paid into the 
 Treasury of the United States to the credit of said Creek Nation. . 
 
 Is that what you want to oppose? * 
 
 Mr. Thraves. That is what I want to oppose. 
 
 Senator Gronna. How many Indians would this legislation affect? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. It only affects four, and they have received a part of 
 their allotment. It only affects 440 acres of land. 
 
 The Chairman. Let us get at the facts in this matter. Is it not a 
 fact that it so happens "that one of these allotments is worth 
 $1,000,000? Let us be frank about it. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 283 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Yes. 
 
 The Chairman. And you are trying to get this allotment worth 
 $1,000,000 for one of your clients? It is a perfectly proper trans- 
 action, of course, for you to try to do so. You want this million-dol- 
 lar allotment to go to your client. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. That is \Yhat we haAe already done. 
 
 The Chairman. Xo; you have not done it. You are trying to do 
 it. As a lawyer you say j'ou haAe. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Yes, sir; we have. 
 
 The Chairman. Tn other words, you Avant this million-dollar allot- 
 ment to one Indian ? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. No, sir; if you will let me answer it. I want this 
 committee to refrain from passing the legislation which will deprive 
 four allottees of what 18,712 other allottees have enjoyed under the 
 law. 
 
 The Chairman. Did they all get an allotment worth that? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Some of them got more. 
 
 The Chairman. Did they all get a million- dollar allotment? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Some of them have got more. 
 
 The Chairjian. Of course, if they all 
 
 Mr. Thraves. No ; they did not all get it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I would not like for that impression to be left with 
 this committee. There are a few Creek citizens who are entitled to 
 allotment -under the law. They have not yet been allotted. The 
 department has not approved these allotment selections. 
 
 Mr. Thraatis. No, sir ; the selections have been made, bijt they have 
 not been approved. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. And what is more, the department does not intend to 
 approve these allotment selections, because we believe it would be an 
 injustice to the Creek Nation to permit four citizens to acquire allot- 
 ments worth probalaly $5,000,000. We are of the opinion that this 
 land should be held for the benefit of all the Creek citizens, so that 
 we might use the proceeds from these leases to equalize Creek allot- 
 ments. Some Creek Indians have not yet received their pro rata 
 share of the tribal property, and if we can get the legislation that is 
 proposed by Senator Owen and has been introduced in the House 
 by Representative Murray, we can equalize all the Creek allotments 
 in the Creek Nation, and at the same time give these few remaining 
 Creek citizens their just and proportionate share of the Creek prop- 
 erty in that nation. 
 
 Senator Page. I believe we had better give this gentleman 10 
 minutes' time and let us hear what he has to say. We may from that 
 form some conclusion whether we ought to take it up m connection 
 with this appropriation bill or not. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the committee 
 
 The Chairman. Just a moment. 
 
 Mr.MoTT. Mr. Thraves wanted me to make a statement ]ust before 
 he started on his 10 minutes. 
 
 The Chairman. This is limited to 10 minutes. I want to ask a 
 few questions before we proceed. . » 
 
 Mr. Mott. I do not want to make a statement on the merits o± 
 this matter. I just want to make a short statement, it will not 
 take me five minutes. 
 
 The Chairman. On this case ? 
 
284 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. On this matter. 
 
 Senator Page. You both want to make a statement. 
 
 The Chairman. Are you his partner, Mr. Mott ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. I represent the tentative allottees, these fire people 
 who have not had their selection. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Mott, you may proceed, if you wish. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Mr. Chairman and Senators, before Christmas there 
 was a joint resolution introduced in the Senate, together with a 
 joint resolution in the House, the purport of which is the resolution 
 which has been embodied here to withdraw Creek lands from allot- 
 ment. I have been attorney of the tribe for 10 years. I came here 
 and visited Senator Owen, who has introduced the resolution in the 
 Senate; Mr. Murray, who has presented the resolution in the House; 
 and also yourself, Mr. Chairman, I believe, and requested that before 
 this matter was passed upon we be given an opportunity to be 
 heard. I have not a doubt that in the multiplicity of business the 
 request has escaped both you and Senator Owen. 
 
 On my return to Washington after New Year's I made the same 
 effort on the House side. I met the question that has been pre- 
 sented here, as indicated by your statement — do you propose to per- 
 mit a member of a tribe to take a million or a million and a half 
 dollars? On its face, prima facie, the answer from any gentleman 
 will be, "Why, certainly not." But upon insistence I succeeded 
 in getting a hearing before the House committee on that joint reso- 
 lution. I asked for an hour and a half or two hours. After I had 
 presented the matter for 45 minutes the members of the committee 
 became much impressed. I told them the legislation, in my judg- 
 ment, was unconstitutional 
 
 The Chairman. Will you pardon me? Instead of telling what 
 you did before the House, will you not tell what this legislation 
 means. You can do that. You are a good lawyer. Do not tell us 
 the history of what happened before another committee. 
 
 Mr. Mott. Our position is that this legislation is unconstitutional. 
 It is in violation of constitutional rights ; and if we can be given the 
 opportunity to present this matter to the committee in an under- 
 standing way I am satisfied that I can convince this committee to 
 a very great extent that this legislation is a nullity, and the only 
 effect of it will be to impose upon the remaining five, the only ones 
 in the Creek Nation who have not had an allotment, the additional 
 burden of prosecuting a suit for four or five years through the 
 courts to determine the constitutionality of this legislation. I only 
 ask for an opportunity to do that. 
 
 It is an important question. I asked for an hour and a half, and 
 if the committee will give it to me I will have no more to say about 
 the matter. I have not discussed it with any individual member of 
 this committee, either in this end of the Capitol or the other. What- 
 ever I say about any matter affecting the Indians in which I appear 
 will have to be said to the committee sitting as a committee. I sim- 
 ply ask the opportunity to present the contentions of these five mem- 
 bers of the Creek Tribe whom it is admitted are entitled to an allot- 
 ment — at least four of them — to present their cause here for your 
 consideration. 
 
 Senator Geonna. May I ask you this question : Would not this be 
 legislation on an appropriation bill? 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 285 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes, sir. I am satisfied it is subject to a point of 
 order — I want to be fair with the committee — but if you find that 
 in your judgment this legislation is constitutional you could very 
 readily put it on the Indian bill; but in my judgment it would be 
 subject to a point of order. 
 
 Senator Gronna. You did not understand my question. I asked 
 you if in your judgment as a lawyer you believed this is general 
 legislation ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes, sir 
 
 Senator Gkonna. If it is legislation it is subject to a point of 
 order. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes. That is the point I make. I thought it was 
 proper to appear before the committee to make this request. I have 
 not discussed it with you individually, and I will not do that. 
 
 The Chairman. You are entirely within your rights in appearing 
 and asking permission. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. My confidence in our case is such that I would not take 
 up your time or put myself in the attitude of attempting to impress 
 you if I did not loiow whether or not the question was serious. I ask 
 to be heard. If you will give me an hour and a half, that is all I 
 want. 
 
 The Chairjiax. When more members of the committee come in we 
 will advise together and let you Isnow. 
 
 Mr. Thraves, you want to be heard on the same matter? 
 
 Mr. AIoTT. I represent him as one of the lessees under these tenta- 
 tive allottees. I will make that plain to the committee. 
 
 The Chaiemax. Mr. Thraves, how much time do you want? 
 
 Mr. Thra^-es. If we are going to be given time to argue it, we 
 would want about an hour. Mr. Mott suggested an hour and a half. 
 I suggest that he be given an hour, then I will take up. 10 or 15 
 minutes. I just want to suggest to the committee, for fear you will 
 not give us an opportunity to be heard, that I be allowed to read a 
 decision or two to the members who are here. 
 
 Senator Laxe. Let them be heard. Why not? 
 
 The Chairman. If there is no objection, we will arrange a time 
 when you can be heard, and unless there is objection to it from the 
 committee you may each have an hour, if you want it, because it 
 seems like it is a serious matter. 
 
 Senator Laxe. If it takes an hour and a half for them to present 
 their case, let them have an hour and a half. 
 
 The Chairmax. Mr. Meritt, you want to be present at that hear- 
 ing, and you want Senator Owen here? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; we would like to be heard. 
 
 The Chairman. We will give you as much time as you want. 
 
 Senator Lane. No ; we will not give him any more time than the 
 rest. Treat them all alike. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I think we ought to set a definite time. We are 
 not here to have public hearings, but this is an important case, and 
 I think if each one of these gentlemen get an hour apiece, and then 
 give the commissioner an hour, if he wants it, that will be the best 
 
 ™^enator Page. Mr. Chairman, I want to say in answer to the sug- 
 gestion of Senator Gronna that if we decide upon a consideration ot 
 this matter that it will certainly go out on a point of order. 1 do 
 
286 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 not believe we had better hear it at all now. We had better hear 
 it under a special bill, because we have so much to do under this 
 appropriation bill, and if we know that we are not going to get 
 through this legislation at this session, we had better postpone it 
 until next session, or else have a special meeting after we have fin- 
 ished with this appropriation bill. I dislike to mix the two to- 
 gether if it is certain that the matter will go out on a point of order. 
 
 Senator Geonna. It is a question in which the Senators and Con- 
 gressmen from the State of Oklahoma are very much interested, and 
 it is a question in which these gentlemen are very much interested, 
 and whether it goes out on a point of order or not the record ought 
 to show the facts. I, for one, think we ought to give them the time 
 they request. 
 
 Senator Page. Would you think it best, if you know it is general 
 legislation that will go out on a point of order, to consider it until 
 we close the hearings on this appropriation bill ? 
 
 Senator Geonna. I think it is best, because it is only a conjecture 
 whether it will go out on a point of order. I think it is best to get 
 the facts, then we will know. 
 
 Senator Page. If we do not reach a conclusion about that I agree 
 with you, but if we reach a conclusion that it will go out on a point 
 of order I for one am very anxious to see this appropriation biU 
 closed up. 
 
 Let us not try to decide this until the committee is more fully rep- 
 resented. There is not a quorum here, at any rate. I object that 
 we shall not pass on this matter until we have a quorum. 
 
 The Chairman. Very well. 
 
 Senator Page. When we have a quorum we will consider it. 
 
 The Chairman. Very well ; we will hear the matter at some future 
 time and will let you know when. 
 
 Ilr. Meeitt. Title chief of the Creek Nation, Motey Tiger, is here, 
 as well as his secretary. We would like to have them notified when 
 this meeting is held. 
 
 The Chairman. Yes; we will notify them also. 
 
 We will proceed with the bill. We passed every item yesterday 
 with the exception of No. 13, which is for the expenses of the Indian 
 Conimissioners, down to item No. 62. That is a Minnesota item. 
 I think we had better wait until Senator Clapp comes back. 
 
 LANDS IN TRUST, PUEBLO INDIANS IN NEW MEXICO. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item that we have passed over is as 
 follows : 
 
 That tlie Secretary of the Interior he, and he Is hereby, authorized to accept, 
 on behalf of the United States, as trustee, all such hinds, tenements, and 
 hereditaments as have been or may be conveyed to the United States by any 
 of the communities or villages of Pueblo Indians in New Mexico by trust 
 deed, or otherwise: Provided., That the period for which such trusts shall be 
 accepted shall be 25 years or more, as may be determined by the respective 
 pueblos in each case. All such lands which may be conveyed to the United 
 States in trust under this act shall be subject to the laws governing Indian 
 country, and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to make and 
 enforce such regulations as may be necessary and proper for the administra- 
 tion of the trust or trusts accepted by him on behalf of the United States, 
 At the expiration of any trust given in accordance with the provisions of this 
 act the Secretary of the Interior may accept a renewal of such trust for such 
 period as may be agreed upon by him and the pueblo. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 287 
 
 That is discussed on page 211 of the House hearings. It is not in 
 the bill. It is proposed to insert it here. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We included this legislation in our estimates, but 
 the House committee omitted it from the bill as reported to the 
 House. I will state that the Senator from Ncav Mexico, Senator 
 Fall, is not here. This item is subject to a point of order. I am not 
 disposed to ask the committee to consider this question seriously 
 in the absence of the Senator from New Mexico, who is a member 
 of this committee. 
 
 The Chairman. I will confer with Senator Fall when the bill gets 
 in the Senate, and if he has no objection we will put it on in the 
 Senate. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is subject to a point of order. We need the legis- 
 lation in order to protect the interests of those Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. What has happened to them now ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They have in the past disposed of their lands without 
 the consent of anyone, and the lands have also been acquired by 
 adverse possession under the State laws, and it is necessary that we 
 have legislation at an early date in order to protect the rights of 
 those Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. Are you sure the Indians will be better off that 
 way than they are now? There is rather a rash statement here: 
 "Appreciating the great benefit which will accrue to them by having 
 the United States hold these lands in trust for the Pueblo Indians." 
 I do not know of any place where the Indians have ever derived any 
 great benefit from the United States holding their lands in trust. 
 The Indian has gone to the wall. If these Indians are out and free 
 from the trusteeship of the United States, I would advise them to 
 stay out, and I would not do anything to bring them in. 
 
 Senator Page. Can we not postpone this as long as we have got 
 to take it up with Senator Fall? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. 
 
 JICARttLA reservation. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item to be considered is as follows : 
 
 That the proviso of section oae of the act entitled " An act to quiet title to 
 l.inds on Jicarilla Reservation, and to authorize the Secretary of the Interior to 
 cause allotments to be made, and to dispose of the merchantable timber, and for 
 other purposes," approved JIarch fourth, nineteen hundred and seven, reading: 
 "Provided, That in making such allotments values shall be considered so as to 
 make the allotments uniform in value as near as practicable ; that the Secretary 
 ot the Interior may dispose of all merchantable timber on allotments herein 
 authorized during the term these are held in trust and on the surplus lands for 
 twenty-five years, the proceeds thereof to be expended uuder his direction for 
 purposes beneficial to the individual allottees hereunder and their heirs, or for 
 families, as he may deem best, and no part of such proceeds shall be expended 
 for community or common benefits other than irrigation, but shall be equitably 
 apportioned as near as may be among the Indians entitled," be, and the same 
 is hereby amended to read : " Provided, That in making such allotments values 
 sh;ill be considered so as to make the allotments uniform in value as near as 
 practicable ; that the Secretary of the Interior may dispose of all merchantable 
 timber on allotments herein authorized during the term these are held « trust 
 and on the surplus lands for twenty-five years, the Proceeds thereof to be 
 expended under his direction for the purchase of live stock, seeds agricultural 
 equipment, and for other purposes beneficial to the Indians belonging to and 
 having rights as members of said tribe of Indians with the consent of toe 
 individual allottees, or their heirs, natural guardians to consent for minors and 
 the superintendent of the reservation for orphan minors and incompetents. 
 
288 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 That is discussed on page 213 of the House hearings. Did you 
 estimate for that, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. The House left it out because they opposed the 
 legislation ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Because it was legislation; not because they opposed 
 it. They left out all new items. 
 
 The Chairman. You want that in ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is important that that item be included in the bill 
 because the money now to the credit of those Indians is only avail- 
 able for irrigation purposes. This reservation is on the Continental 
 Divide, and it is deemed impracticable to irrigate those lands. Un- 
 der the law we can not use that money for any purpose except irri- 
 gation. 
 
 The Chairman. You want it for the purchase of live stock, seeds, 
 implements, and other purposes beneficial to the Indians? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. We want to use the money in such a way 
 that it will really benefit the Indians rather than expend it for an 
 irrigation project than can be of no use to them. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection the item is unanimously agreed 
 to, and will be put in the bill. 
 
 OGDEN land CO., NEW YORK. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is under New York, not in the bill, 
 but is justified on page 218 of the House hearings. It reals : 
 
 That the Attorney General be, and he hereby is, authorized to institute such 
 suit or suits as may be necessary in the Federal court for the western district 
 of the State of New York to test the validity and extent of the claim of the so- 
 called Ogden Land Co. in and to the lands embraced within any of the Indian 
 reservations in the State of New York, with the right of appeal to the Supreme 
 Court of the United States by either party to the proceedings, and jurisdiction 
 is hereby conferred on the said courts to hear and determine the cause. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We will not request that that legislation go on this 
 bill, for the reason that there is a bill now pending before the House 
 committee, and this would be subject to a point of order. 
 
 The Chairman. It would be disagreed to because it would provoke 
 an enormous amount of discussion. 
 
 STARR m'GILLIS, TURTLE MOUNTAIN CHIPPEWA INDIANS. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is discussed on page 228 of the 
 House hearings, and is as follows : 
 
 To enable the Secretary of the Interior to redeem a mortgage on the allotment 
 selection of Starr McGillis, a Turtle Mountain Chippewa Indian, described as 
 the northwest quarter of section thirty-four, township one hundred and sixty- 
 four north, range seventy west, of the fifth principal meridian. North Dakota, 
 $1,500, or so much thereof as may be necessary, the said sum to be reimbursed 
 from the rentals of said allotment not to exceed fifty per centum of the amount 
 of rentals received annually : Provided, That in the event a patent in fee shall 
 be issued for this land before the United States shall be wholly reimbursed 
 as herein provided, the amount remaining unpaid shall become a first lien 
 on such allotment, and the fact of such lien shall be recited on the face of the 
 patent in fee and the amount of the lien set forth thereon, and the receipt of 
 the Secretary of the Interior, or of the officer, agent, or employee duly authorized 
 by him for that purpose, for the payment of the amount of the mortgage, when 
 duly recorded by the recorder of deeds in the county wherein the land is locate^, 
 shall operate as a satisfaction of such lien. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 289 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. "We estimated for this item, but the House left out 
 all new legislation. 
 
 There is a thorough justification for this item found, beginning on 
 page 228 of the House hearings. This Indian, Starr McGillis, located 
 on the land in question in the j-ear 1881, and not knowing the law re- 
 garding the homestead entry did not make any effort to get home- 
 stead rights. He cultivated this land for a number of years and 
 put improvements on it. In the meantime a man by the name of 
 Peter Foley filed a homestead application for this tract of land, and 
 a man by the name of George Hooker, a white man, took possession 
 of the land, having purchased the relinquisloment of Peter Foley. 
 There were certain improvements placed on this land by the subse- 
 quent white occupants, and there was a mortgage placed on these 
 improvements. The General Land Office has held that Starr Mc- 
 Gillis is entitled to the land, but that the innocent parties who have 
 a mortgage on the property should be protected. We are asking for 
 this legislation so that we can pay off this mortgage and accumulated 
 interest, which mortgage will be foreclosed in April, if we do not. 
 
 The Chaiekan. Starr McGillis is an Indian? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. Mr. Burke called attention to the fact that if you 
 paid off the mortgage and interest you would not secure title unless 
 you 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There will be no trouble about securing title. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Meritt says that we will get the title before we 
 pay out the money. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. You notice my statement on that. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes ; but your statement will not be the law. That 
 is for the Attorney General to decide. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The Attorney General would hold this Indian to be 
 protected. 
 
 Senator Lane. He ought to be. We are trying to find a way to 
 do it. I saw this same thing happen before, where a man paid off a 
 mortgage and then he did not get the title. ... 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Burke was in error about that. The title is in 
 Starr McGillis, subject to this mortgage, and if he 
 
 The Chairman. And the title is unencumbered and m btarr Mc- 
 Gillis? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The title will be in Starr McGiUis. 
 
 The Chaieman. And unencumbered when the mortgage is paid i 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. We expect to reimburse the Government out 
 of the rentals from this land. . ^ n ^^ . 
 
 The Chairman. Then he has a fee-simple title after the mortgage 
 
 is paid ? He owns the land ? , , i n j!x xi, 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. He will have a perfect title to the land after the 
 
 mortgage is paid. ^ ■ -i. g 
 
 The Chaieman. Is there any objection to this item? 
 Senator Page. Will this go out on,a point ot order i 
 Mr. Meeitt. I do not think so. 
 The Chairman. It was estimated for? 
 JM[r IVTerttt "x 6S sir. 
 
 The Chaieman. What do you say, Senator Page? 
 Senator Page. I have no objection. 
 The Chairman. What do you say. Senator LaneS 
 
 82833— VOL 1—15 19 
 
290 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. If it protects the Indian it is all right. 
 The Chaieman. I think it does, from my observation. 
 Senator Page. I move that we approve the item. 
 The CHAIE3IAN. The item vvill be agreed to, in the absence of 
 objection. 
 
 EBMOVAL or EESTEICTIONS, KICKAPOO INDIANS AND AFFILIATED BANDS. 
 
 The Chaieman. The next item that v?as not agreed to is as follows: 
 
 That that part of the act of Congress approved June twenty-first, nineteen 
 hundred and six (Thirty-fourth Statutes at Large, page three hundred and 
 sixty-three), reading as follows: "All restrictions as to sale and encumbrance 
 of all lands, inherited and otherwise, of all adult Kickapoo Indians, and of 
 all Shawnee, Delaware, Caddo, and Wichita Indians who have heretofore been 
 or are now known as Indians of said tribes afHliated with said Kickapoo In- 
 dians, now or hereafter nonresident in the United States, who have been allotted 
 land in Oklahoma or Indian Territory, are hereby removed : Provided, That any 
 such Indian allottee who is a nonresident of the United States may lease his 
 allotment without restriction for a period not exceeding five years: Provided 
 further. That the parent or the person next of kin having the care and custody 
 of a minor allottee may lease the allotment of said minor as herein provided, 
 except that no such lease shall extend beyond the minority of said allottee," be, 
 and the same is hereby, repealed. 
 
 That item is discussed on page 244 of the House hearings. 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, we will not ask for that legislation. 
 It is subject to a point of order. 
 
 The Chaieman. It will be considered as disagreed to, then. 
 
 COMMON SCHOOLS IN THE FIVE CIVILIZED TEIBES. 
 
 The Chaieman. The next item not agreed to as yet is as follows : 
 
 The sum of $275,000, to be expended in the discretion of the Secretary of 
 the Interior, under rules and regulations to be prescribed by him, in aid of 
 the common schools in the Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and 
 Osage Nations and the Quapaw Agency in Oklahoma during the fiscal year 
 ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and sixteen : Provided, That this appro- 
 priation shall not be subject to the limitation in section one of this act limiting 
 the expenditure of money to educate children of less than one-fourth Indian 
 blood. 
 
 That item is discussed on page 256 of the House hearings. Does 
 that involve the question of sectarian schools? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chaieman. Then perhaps we had better pass it until other 
 Senators who are objecting to it are present. 
 
 Senator Page. I am getting some protests against the use of money 
 for sectarian schools. I do not Icnow what it amounts to. I am re- 
 ceiving letters saying that they ought to be abolished. 
 
 The Chaieman. That had better be passed for the present, anyway. 
 I know that Senator Owen and Senator Kobinson want to be heard 
 on that. 
 
 EESEEVATION of ADDITIONAL LANDS FOE THE USE OF JONES ACADEMY, 
 
 CHOCTAW NATION. 
 
 The Chaieman. The next item is as follows: 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to set aside and reserve 
 for an addition to the lands now reserved for and occupied by Jones Academy, 
 Choctaw Nation, the following tracts belonging to the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILI.. 291 
 
 Nations, being the south half of the southwest quarter of section twenty-one, 
 less ten acres heretofore reserved for Jones Academy ; also the west half of 
 tte northwest quarter of the northwest quarter of section twenty-eight; west 
 half of the southwest quarter of the northwest quarter of section twenty-eight ; 
 south half of the southwest quarter of section twenty-eight ; south half of north- 
 east quarter of southwest quarter of section twenty-eight ; south half of north- 
 west quarter of southwest quarter of section twenty-eight ; northwest quarter 
 of northwest quarter of SQuthwest quarter of section twenty-eight, each half of 
 section twenty-eight, all in township five north, range seventeen east of Indian 
 meridian, Oklahoma. 
 
 That item is discussed on page 263 of the House hearings. 
 Mi\ Meeitt. That item was not included in the bill in the House, 
 and we will not insist on it before the Senate. 
 The Chaip.jman. Very well, then. 
 
 PEE CAPITA PAYMENT TO THE CHOCTAWS. 
 
 The Chaiemax. The next item is the per capita payment to the 
 Choctaws. Of course, we will not discuss that now, because we 
 know that that item and the Montana items are going to be taken 
 up when there is a larger attendance. 
 
 C. B. JOEDAN, L. m'cAN, AND W. P. WHEELER. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item passed over is as follows : 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to expend the sum of $163, 
 out of any funds belonging to the Choctaw Nation, to reimburse C. B. Jordan, 
 L. McCan, and W. P. Wheeler for damages sustained by them through fire 
 communicated to their property from the premises of the Nuyaka Boarding 
 School. 
 
 That is discussed on page 272 of the House hearings. 
 Mr. Meeitt. That item was not included in the House bill, and 
 we will not ask that it be incorporated. 
 The Chairman. Was it estimated for? 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 The Chaieman. It would probably go out on a point of order. 
 
 SYSTEM or bookkeeping, BITREAIT of INDIAN AFFAIRS. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is the last item in the bill, repealing 
 section 26 of the act of June 30, 1913. 
 
 Has not that been disposed of by the appropriation of $12,500? 
 
 Mr. ]Meeitt. At the hearing yesterday it was suggested that we 
 draft an amendment to section 26 of the Indian appropriation act of 
 June 30, 1913. 
 
 Senator Lane. What is the item? . . 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Our item is for the purpose of repealing the provision 
 of law in regard to establishing a new bookkeeping system_ m the 
 . Indian Service, and also submitting reports to Congress with our 
 estimates, which is a physical impossibility. The committee at the 
 hearing yesterday suggested that we draft an item which would 
 enable us to get anew bookkeeping system, and also furnish the other 
 information at the beginning of the session of Congress, so that we 
 will have ample time to furnish that information. 
 
292 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The item which has been drafted reads as follows : 
 
 Section 20 of the Indian appropriation act approved June 30, 1913 (38 Stat- 
 utes at Large, page 103), is hereby amended so as to read as follows: 
 
 " On or befoie the first day of July, nineteen hundred and sixteen, the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior shall cause a system of bookkeeping to be installed in 
 the Bureau of Indian Affairs which will afford a ready analysis of expenditures 
 by appropriations and by units of the service, showing for each activity or 
 class of work the expenditures for salaries and wages of employees, buildings 
 and other permanent improvements, administration, equipment, maintenance, 
 operation, and other purposes. Such additional changes and improvements 
 in the system of bookkeeping shall be made as may be advisable in the judgment 
 of the said Secretary. 
 
 " On the first Monday in December, nineteen hundred and seventeen, and 
 annually thereafter, a detailed statement of expenditures, as heretofore de- 
 scribed, for the preceding fiscal year shall be transmitted to Congress by the 
 Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 " The sum of $12,000 is hereby appropriated for expenses of installing the 
 new system of bookkeeping required by this section, including the pay of 
 expert accountants, at a rate of not exceeding $15 per day, and their assistants, 
 to be employed by the Secretary of the Interior, and the purchase of such books, 
 stationery, and other supplies as may be necessary." 
 
 Senator Page. Is it necessary to take it out of the civil service, Mr. 
 Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We probably would not be able to get the people for 
 this work as quickly if we were required to go through the civil 
 service. They have expert accountants in the large cities who are 
 accustomed to going through the books of large concerns and straight- 
 ening out the books. They do not work for $10 a day — ^not good ones. 
 
 Senator Lane. No; they do not. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This item was drafted for $15 at first. 
 
 Senator Lane. I think you are more likely to have to pay $25. 
 
 Senator Page. I think if you are going to go outside the civil 
 service to have expert accountants from the larger cities that $10 
 will not do it. 
 
 Senator Lane. I know it would not. I question whether $15 
 would. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. At your suggestion I will make it $15. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not know that I want to ask you to do that. I 
 do not know but what you have in your department men who are 
 expert in this land of specialized bookkeeping who can do this just 
 as well as to go outside. They are familiar with all the details of 
 the Indian Office bookkeeping. 
 
 Senator Lane. They wanted somebody to start a new plan. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not believe that is necessary. 
 
 Senator Lane. A person who has been worlring continuously on 
 this Ime has land of got himself into a groove. He can not help it. 
 i hat will happen to the best man. You want somebody from the 
 outside to come m there and check it up. 
 
 Mr Meritt Without objection, we will strike out the language 
 without certification by the Civil Service Commission." 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. That will provoke less discussion. It would 
 be considered as an attack on the civil service 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are heartily in favor of the civil service in the 
 Indian bureau. We do not want any more people outside the civil 
 service than is absolutely necessary. 
 iteS^ Chairman. How much does the appropriation cover in that 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 293 
 
 Mr. Meritt. $12,000. 
 
 The Chairman. That will be ample for you to comply with the 
 provisions of the statutes and make your reports to Congress when 
 it assembles in December of each year ? 
 
 Mr. jSIeeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chaiejian. Without objection, that item will be ao-reed to 
 
 Senator Page. I am not certain, Mr. Chairman, that I approve of 
 Ihat at all. I do not know that we will get anything better than 
 we have noAV. But it seems to be the desire of Senator Lane and some 
 others that we should have a different summary, and I am not goinw 
 to oppose it. '^ 
 
 Senator Lane. You think yourself you need it down there, do 
 you not? 
 
 ]Mr. Meeitt. We realize that the bookkeeping system in the Indian 
 Service is an outgrowth of accumulated years. It ought to be simpli- 
 fied and brought up to date and made more modern. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you not think, Mr. Meritt, that evolution is 
 the best possible way to reach bookkeeping? You are forced into 
 a certain kind of bookkeeping by the very exigencies of the service, 
 and to have some fresh fellow come in from the outside and under- 
 take to start you off with a new set of books might involve you in 
 trouble that would be unnecessary, and which you could avoid if you 
 took the best men in your own service and had them e\olve or perfect 
 their system of bookkeeping. I am not a great believer in trying 
 to adjust the books of one corporation to those of another, in an 
 entirely different business, and this is an entirely different business 
 from the business of any expert that I loiow of. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is a duplication of work, and some of it for 
 which they are held responsible they do not handle at all. It is 
 bandied in the Treasury Department. I know it is shifted back 
 until there are a lot of balances that the employees in the Indian 
 Service can not make because the books are up in the Treasury 
 Department. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Our accounts are passed on by the Auditor of the 
 Treasury Department. 
 
 ^Ye have with us this morning Mr. Dimick, Chief of the Finance 
 Division, who has charge of the bookkeeping system in the Indian 
 Service. Before asking that he make a statement to the committee, 
 I would like to call attention to the fact that it is going to take 
 probably a year to install this bookkeeping system, and that this 
 legislation here says that " on the first Monday in December, 1917, 
 i'.nd annually thereafter, a detailed statement of expenditures, as 
 heretofore described, for the preceding fiscal year shall be trans- 
 mitted to Congress by the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 I want to make it clear to the committee that it will be impossible 
 for us at the next session of Congress to transmit this report. 
 
 Senator Page. Why can you not say the 1st day of December, 
 1916? Would you not between now and December, 1916, be able to 
 
 make this rearrangement? /^, ■ -? jh.u T74„„r,^o 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I would like for Mr. Dimick, the Chief of the Fmance 
 Division, to answer that question and such other questions as the 
 committee might wish to ask him. 
 
294 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. DiMicK. Mr. Chairman, the question, I believe, now is in re- 
 gard to making a report to Congress on the first Monday of next 
 December ? 
 
 Senator Page. No ; the fiarst Monday of December, 1917, or Decem- 
 ber, 1916. 
 
 Mr. DiMiCK. The first Monday in December, 191 <, would be the 
 earliest date we could report anything of value, because we could not 
 get this system to working until the 1st of July, 1916, and then we 
 would have to run a full fiscal year before we could report any 
 results. So that we made this amendment to read the first Monday 
 in December, 1917, and annually thereafter. I think that is the very 
 earliest time we could report anything of value to Congress. 
 
 Senator Lane. Could you not make a report from your present 
 system at the next Congress ? 
 
 Mr. DiMiCK. Not along the lines prescribed in this amendment. 
 
 Senator Page. Allowing that to stand, I want to ask you this 
 question : Do you not have in the Treasury Department the best 
 possible auditing experts? Have you not an auditing service there 
 that can give us a new system of bookkeeping just as well as any- 
 body that would come from an auditing concern outside ? 
 
 Mr. DiMiCK. In my opinion we would get better results by having 
 an expert from the outside come in. The people in the service, as you 
 probably realize, get into ruts. Especially if they have been there 
 for a long time, they are generally opposed to radical changes. 
 Besides, the people from the outside who are fresh from the com- 
 mercial business world can bring in new ideas which are beneficial 
 in the Government service. Our aim would be to put the Govern- 
 ment service accounting on a business basis, and the most of the peo- 
 ple who are in the Government service have been out of touch with 
 outside business so long that they are not familiar with a great many 
 of these methods. 
 
 Senator Lane. He is entirely right about that. Senator. 
 
 Senator Page. Can you give a layman some conception of just ex- 
 actly the nature of the changes you will make under this amendment? 
 
 Mr. DiMiCK. It would be pretty difficult to outline in advance the 
 changes we would make. We can only see now where our defects 
 and shortcomings are. We have had no authority to incur any ex- 
 penses in this connection, and for that reason have not given very 
 much thouglit to the details of the improvements required. 
 
 Senator Page. You really have not very much idea of what this 
 amendment means? 
 
 Mr. DuricK. Yes, sir ; Ave have a pretty clear idea of what it means. 
 We have an idea of what we will get a^vay from, and the better in- 
 formation we will be able to furnish, and the better condition that 
 our records will be in. But we have not gone far enough to deter- 
 mine just how we would do that. 
 
 Senator Page. Let me ask this: Do you believe that under this 
 amendment you will revolutionize the whole system of Indian book- 
 Jteeping, or will you supplement the present system with figures that 
 make an analysis and show the different departments, or the expenses 
 of the Indian Department? 
 
 Mr.DiMiCK. My own idea in drafting that amendment was that 
 we would make a thorough revision of the whole accounting system 
 m the Indian Bureau. As Mr. Meritt said, the system we have now 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 295 
 
 is just patchwork that has been built up from time to time to fill 
 certam needs, and it is not very well connected. 
 
 Senator Lane. It does not work coherently together does it« 
 
 Mr. DiMicK. No, sir. ^ » > 
 
 Senator Lane. It is, as he says, a patchwork system 
 
 Mr.DiMiCK. We realize that, and have realized it for a long time 
 
 Senator Lane. It makes it hard for them to keep track of the busi- 
 ness. The fact is that they have additional work and responsibility 
 fixed upon them for which they should not be held. For that reason 
 they are unable to connect up their work. Is not that true? 
 
 Mr. DiMiCK. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. That should not be so. 
 
 Senator Page. Let me pursue that one thought further, and then 
 I will close. When you take a long-established system of account- 
 ing and bookkeeping and bring into it some man who knows abso- 
 lutely nothing about that accounting, about that bookkeeping, that 
 department of business, are you not very liable in changing one from 
 the other to leave a good many linl^s that do not bring things to- 
 gether so that. you have a perfect work? 
 
 Mr. DizMicK. We would be, sir, if the expert emploved was not the 
 right kind of a man. If he came in with preconceived ideas of what he 
 was going to do, and proceeded to do it without regard to the opin- 
 ions of those who are there and familiar with the business; but I 
 think if we get the right kind of a man to come in and work with 
 us, cooperate with us, and we with him, we can work out a much 
 better system. He will give us the benefit of his ideas and we will 
 give him the benefit of our ideas, and I think working together we 
 can get a much better system than can be evolved by people work- 
 ing in the service. 
 
 Senator Page. I am going to assume the role of a prophet for just 
 a moment, and say that I will be very much surprised if you do not 
 find a great many points in this new line that will embarrass you and 
 make your work unpleasant and difficult. I do not believe that a man 
 coming in from an outside business, who has not had any connection 
 with a business of this kind, and knowing nothing about it, can step 
 into a system like this, which is the result of long years of experi- 
 ence and produce very much of an improvement. But this seems to 
 be contemplated, and I move that we approve the item. 
 
 Senator Lane. Senator, before you do that I should like to call 
 your attention to the fact that there was a check made of the system 
 at the instigation of the joint commission by a firm of experts in 
 New York. I have forgotten their title. 
 
 Mr. DiariCK. The Bureau of Municipal Kesearch. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes ; the Bureau of Municipal Eesearch. It agrees 
 with what our friend says who works there day by day, and knows 
 what he is talking about. This is what they say : 
 
 The Office of Indian Affairs, wliose volume of business runs to many million 
 dollars each year, and whose trusteeship includes the custody and control of 
 approximately a thousand million dollars' worth of property, is equipped with 
 records so Inadequate as not only to imperil the rights of those for whose 
 benefit these funds and properties are held, but to leave the administrator him- 
 self without protection. An accounting system is mamtamed which is single 
 entry in principle. The accounts are partial and inaccurate m many particulars. 
 
296 INDIAN APPEOPEIATIOW BILL. 
 
 It is impossible with present methods for the officials of the Indian Office to 
 keep in personal touch with the many varied transactions and the constantly 
 changing status of property and funds. 
 
 They are handicapped and held responsible for things for which 
 they are not to blame. It ought to be simplified and brought to- 
 gether. It is not going to make a radical change in the handling of 
 the funds except to simplify the methods which have been cumber- 
 some. Is not that true? 
 
 Jlr. DiMiCK. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. They are entitled to this, and we are entitled to it. 
 We owe it to them, to ourseh'es, and to our wards. 
 
 Senator Page. I move the adoption of the amendment. 
 
 The Chairjian. Without objection it will be agreed to. 
 
 FINAL SETTLEMENT OF CLAIMS WIIH INDIAN TRIBES. 
 
 The Chairman. The next item is as follows : 
 
 That the Commissioner of Indian Affairs is hereby authorized to investigate 
 claims and negotiate agreements with any tribes or bands of Indians for the 
 final adjudication and settlement of all claims and demands of such tribes or 
 bands against the United States, arising under any law, treaty, or agreement, 
 and which has not heretofore been adjudicated; and the Secretary of the In- 
 terior shall report the result of such negotiations to Congress for its approval 
 at the earliest practicable date, and there is hereby appropriated, out of any 
 money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, the sum of $10 000 for all 
 expenses in connection with this work, including pay of necessary additional 
 employees. 
 
 That is justified on page 99 of the House hearings. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Different tribes of Indians throughout the country 
 have alleged claims against the Government, and it is believed that 
 if we had authority of law to make a careful investigation of these 
 claims and report the facts to Congress, that some of these claims 
 could be satisfactorily adjusted. We would like to have this small 
 item of legislation giving that authority. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Meritt, in 1909, I think, or perhaps 1908, a 
 subcommittee, consisting of Senators Clapp, La Follette, Brown, and 
 myself went to every Indian tribe in Wisconsin and asked them to 
 give us any complaints, or to state to us any claims they had against 
 the Government, or any claims they had because of the presumed 
 ■^•iolation of any old treaty. We spent three or four weeks there con- 
 sidering that matter, and all the hearings were published. They ■ 
 made a very voluminous document. I do not know that the expense 
 of that hearing was wasted, but so far as the document itself is 
 concerned, I fear it has never been utilized, and I do not know but 
 you will find in your department printed statements showing just 
 exactly what you propose to reach by this amendment here. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have that printed report. Senator, in our library, 
 and we very frequently have occasion to refer to it in correspond- 
 ence. That report has been of considerable service to the Indian 
 office. It, however, does not cover the points that would be raised 
 by this item of legislation. For example, the TJte Indians in Utah 
 and Colorado had a claim against the Government. That claim was 
 largely a question of accounting. The attorneys got that claim be- 
 fore the Court of Claims and got a judgment of more than 
 $3,000,000 against the United States, and the attorneys themselves 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 297 
 
 got an attorney fee of something like a quarter of a million dollars 
 if I remember correctly That attorney fee could have been saved to 
 the Indians if we had had authority to investigate the claims that 
 are being pressed on the Indian office. 
 
 Senator Page. You would have the Indians understand that their 
 claims would receive consideration without the intervention of an 
 attorney ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt ^Ye would send a man like Maj. McLaughlin, an in- 
 spector, who has been_ in the service for 30 years, and who Imows 
 the laws and the various treaties, and who Imows personally the 
 Indians on practically all the Indian reservations— we would have 
 a man of that class go on these reservations and take up with the 
 Indians there the alleged claims against the Government, get all 
 the facts in connection Avith them, and then we would submit those 
 facts and our conclusions to Congress, to this committee, and to the 
 House Committee on Indian Affairs for their consideration. Then, 
 if it were necessary to have the matter adjudicated, you would have 
 the facts on which to refer it to the Court of Claims for adjudication. 
 
 Senator Page. Has that judgment of $3,000,000 been paid bv the 
 United States? f J 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; Congress has appropriated that money, and 
 it is now in the Treasury to the credit of those Indians. A few 
 days ago authority was given by this committee to withdraw some 
 of those funds for industrial benefit of those Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. Was any question ever raised by the department 
 that the judgment was not a just one? 
 
 _Mr. Meritt. There was some doubt about the claims of the In- 
 dians, because they were never thoroughlj' investigated until they 
 were submitted to the Court of Claims. 
 
 Senator Page. And then the Indian Department intervened with 
 their attorney to look after the interests of the Government, did 
 they? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; the Department of Justice appeared for the 
 Government. We submitted the statements and the facts to the 
 Com't of Claims on which this judgment was based. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you think this action that you propose would 
 be satisfactory or pleasing to the Indians themselves ? 
 
 Mr. IMeritt. I think it would be. It would certainly be for their 
 benefit and give them an opportunity to be heard. For that reason 
 I think that the Indians of the country would be glad to have this 
 legislation. We have present a Mr. Wheelock, an Indian and an 
 attorney, if the committee would like to have his views on this. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not care to take up the time of the committee 
 on it. 
 
 The Chairman. You say he is an Indian and an attorney^ 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. Where do you live, Mr. 'Wheelock? 
 
 Mr. Wheelock. In Wisconsin. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I might say that he is a Carlisle graduate, and we 
 are verv proud of him. 
 
 The "Chairman. What is your tribe? . ^ ^ ., ^ . „ ,, 
 
 Mr. Wheelock. I belong to the Oneida Tribe, formerly of the 
 Six Nations of New York. 
 
298 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 I might add this, that mv scheme that looks to the settlement of 
 the claims of the Indian tribes ought to be adopted, because it is a 
 source of disadvantage to the tribes, many of whom are always wait- 
 ing for this money to come sometime, and causes indolence and a 
 nonprogressive spirit. As a matter of justice, these Indians, i± they 
 have any claims, should have a chance to have their day. Many 
 tribes are backward largely on account of having the belief that they 
 have some sort of claim against the Government m various amounts. 
 If they are given an opportunity, just as stated here, it will pave 
 the way for them perhaps to understand whether they really have 
 any claim or not. I think there are a great many claims which have 
 no foundation in fact. Some are meritorious. 
 
 In reference to the attorneys, there has been a good deal of scandal 
 and all that sort of thing. 1 would like to suggest to the committee 
 here that where there are, conflicting sides to any claim, as is usually 
 the case in an Indian claim, one faction on one side and another faction 
 on another side, perhaps it would be wise that some provision be made 
 whereby these factions can engage attorneys, but the fees to be abso- 
 lutely controlled by the Secretary of the Interior. I think that 
 ought to be made a law, so that these exorbitant fees that we hear 
 so much about would not be possible. 
 
 Senator Page. Is not that now controlled by an act of Congress? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have legislation controlling that at this time. 
 
 Mr. Wheelock. You have the control, but it is usually on a per- 
 centage basis. Instead of putting it on the salary basis it is on the 
 percentage basis. 
 
 The Chairman. We are very glad to have heard you, Mr. 
 Wheelock. 
 
 In the absence of objection, that will be agreed to. 
 
 Senator Geonna. The final settlement of these claims would have 
 to be approved by Congress, as I understand? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes; we are simply reporting the facts to Congress 
 in this item. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I have no objection. 
 
 Senator Lane. Did the House throw that out? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. I wish to say in this connection that while 
 I was serving as law clerk in the Indian Bureau a few years ago I 
 drafted an item of legislation which would allow all Indians to sub- 
 mit their claims to the Court of Claims. That proposed legislation 
 has been pending before this committee and the House committee. 
 While I do not wish to commit the department on the proposition, 
 because it has not been passed on during this administration, I want 
 to say that I personally am in favor of a general jurisdictional act 
 which will permit all tribes of Indians in the United States who 
 think they have a claim against the Government to submit that claim 
 to the Court of Claims for adjudication, and where the Indians' 
 claim can be heard, and where the United States can be represented 
 as well as the Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. Would you have the Court of Claims report, or 
 would you have it a judgment against the United States? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Under that bill, as I drafted it, the Court of Claims 
 would render a judgment subject to the right of appeal by either 
 party to the Supreme Court. The attorneys who represent the In- 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 299 
 
 dians would be required to get their contracts approved b^ the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior m accordance with existing law. AH iudff- 
 ments made by the Court of Claims would have to be approved by 
 (.ongress m the form of appropriations, so that there would be ample 
 check, and the interests of all sides would be protected. That is far- 
 reaching legislation, and I believe it should at some time be con- 
 sidered. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I wanted to ask the commissioner another ques- 
 tion. That provision would in no way prohibit or prevent any 
 individual Indian or band of Indians from employing attorneys if 
 they wanted to s ^ o j 
 
 Mr. Mebitt. N"o, sir. 
 
 Senator Geonna. It simply authorizes the department or bureau 
 to make an investigation and report the findings ? 
 Mr. jMeeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Geonxa. I am very much in favor of that, Mr. Chair- 
 man. I believe it should be inserted. 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection, it will be agreed to. 
 Senators, that concludes the bill, except the following items. We 
 have yet in dispute and unagreed to the question as to the appro- 
 priation for the expenses of the Board of Indian Commissioners, 
 the question of the pro rata distribution to the Choctaws, the unal- 
 lotted lands of the Creek Nation, the Montana reclamation project, 
 two Minnesota items, and an amendment regarding the Munsee 
 Tribe. Also Mrs. Gray wants to be heard in regard to the Crow 
 Indians. 
 
 Mr. GRATSOiSr. I wish to say that we have been informed that you 
 have included an item against the Creek Nation of $10,000, to be 
 paid to an institution of learning down in our country, proposed, I 
 think, by Senator Owen from our Stjite. I wish to say that we were 
 engaged in looking on in the debate in the House committee on other 
 interests much greater than that to our people, and during that time 
 this was proposed, and, as I understand, included in the bill. 
 
 Senator Page. It has not been included in the bill, I am informed. 
 Mr. Geatson. It has been included, so I understand. 
 The Chairman. What item do you refer to? 
 
 Mr. iNlERiTT. Mr. Chairman, he refers to the amendment offered by 
 Senator Owen in regard to Kendall College. That item has not been 
 incorporated in the bill. There was an amendment authorizing the 
 appropriation of $10,000 out of the tribal funds of the Creek Nation 
 to reimburse that college, but it has not been as yet incorporated in 
 the bill. It is up for consideration. 
 Senator Lane. You want to be heard in favor of it, do you? 
 Mr. Grayson. No, sir ; I want to oppose it. 
 The Chairman. Why should it not be paid? 
 
 Mr. Gratson. For the reason that that institution was entitled to 
 a certain amount of lands when statehood came upon us down there. 
 They took that, and whilst taking that they wanted much more 
 land, and the land that they wanted was included m a stock pasture 
 owned by our then acting chief and another gentleman down there, 
 and they in the goodness of their hearts told them to take what they 
 wanted. They indicated what they wanted. The time came when 
 they wanted to sell out that property and go to a different town some 
 
300 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 40 miles away. In the meantime our then acting attorney, Mr. Mott, 
 instituted this suit against that excess taking of land by the institu- 
 tion. Then when they came to wanting to sell out and go to the 
 other place they could not sell this land, and then some negotiation 
 went on between Mr. Mott 
 
 The Chairman. If you will pardon me, I will say that the com- 
 missioner is correct. The secretary of the committee informs me 
 that it is not in the bill. The record shows that it has not been 
 included. 
 
 Mr. Grayson. Very good. 
 
 Senator Lane. It has been proposed? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Lane. It will come up again. 
 
 Senator Page. If it does, I think we ought to give him an oppor- 
 tunity to be heard. 
 
 Mr. Grayson. We will be here all the time, and when it shall come 
 up we should like to be heard. 
 
 TRUST PERIOD ON QUAPAW LAND. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, to-morrow I would like to have the 
 privilege of offering an item extending the trust period on certain 
 Quapaw lands. The trust period will expire very soon. 
 
 Senator Lane. Did you propose that in the House ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we have just gotten the information, since the 
 bill passed the House. I will have the proposed legislation, together 
 with the justification, and will make a statement in regard to it 
 to-morrow. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we adjourn now until half past 10 
 o'clock to-morrow. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to ; and at 12.16 o'clock p. m. the committee 
 adjourned until to-morrow, Saturday, January 2-3, 1915, at 10.30 
 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 SATURDAY, JANUARY 23, 1915. 
 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, Page, Clapp, and 
 Gronna, and E. B. Meritt, Assistant Commissioner of Indian Af- 
 fairs. 
 
 CHARLES M. HICKEESON. 
 
 Senator Clapp. There is an amendment that I would like to have 
 inserted in the bill, permitting Charles M. Hickerson to include a 
 portion of allotment No. 36 in Colville Indian Eeservation, Wash., 
 as follows: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior he, and he is hereby, authorized to make 
 an allotment of not more than eight acres of land within the diminished Colville 
 Indian Eeservation in the State of Washington to Se-cum-ka-niillax in lieu of 
 a portion of the Moses agreement allotment No. 36 embraced within the home- 
 stead entry of Charles M. Hicl^erson. That the Secretary of the Interior be, 
 and he is hereby, authorized and directed to accept the homestead proof sub- 
 mitted by Charles M. Hickerson for that part of his homestead embraced within 
 allotment No. 36 to Se-cum-ka-nullax, of Chief Moses's band of Indians, if the 
 same is shown to be in compliance with the homestead laws, and the title of said 
 Indian to that part of said allotment embraced within said entry is hereby 
 extinguished. 
 
 Department of the Interiok, 
 
 Washington, May IJf, 19JJf. 
 Senator Jones. 
 
 Mt Deab Senator : The department is in receiist of your predecessor's letter, 
 dated February 7, 1914, transmitting for report Senate bill 4310, a bill entitled 
 "Permitting Charles M. Hickerson to include a portion of .nllotment No. 36 to 
 Se-cum-ka-nullax, of Chief Moses's band, in his homestead entry, and providing 
 for allotment to Se-cum-ka-nullax in lieu there of on the Colville Indian Eeser- 
 yation." In response, the following is respectfully submitted : 
 
 The records of the Indian Office show that allotment No. 36 was made to 
 Se-cum-ka-nullax, an Indian of the Moses band, by Executive oider, dated May 
 1, 1886, undei the provisions of the act of .July 4, 1884 (23 Stats., 79-80). On 
 March 13, 1911, the department approved the allotment for patenting (with 
 others), based upon official surveys of March 26, 1908, and December 1, 1910, 
 on which this allotment was shown to contain 653.80 acres. 
 
 When the case reached the General Land Office for action it developed that 
 there were two homestead entries which had been erroneously allowed on a part 
 of the land embraced witlilu the allotment, one of which was that of Charles M. 
 Hickerson, which was allowed March 30, 190S, Jie amount m conflict being 50.35 
 acres. Subsequently that part of Hickerson's entry in conflict with allotment 
 No. 36 was held for cancellation, and in a decision dated September 27 1913, the 
 department held that while the Indian had the prior right to the land the case 
 might nevertheless properly be allowed to stand for a reasonable length of time 
 in order to afford Hickerson an opportunity to obtain from Congress confirma- 
 
 301 
 
302 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 tion of his Claim to the lands iu conflict, and authority to make a compensatory 
 
 ''""ew'ofJlfthVCut^onriKl especially In view of the decision Just re- 
 in 'Me\A 01 ail lug (.uuim y ,,r. r,hipntinn to Ipo-islatlou tor the relief of 
 
 '.fr'^lVck'cr^^u'Sr f^" 1 1^^^^^^ 
 
 ?eLectfuny s -ests and rec<mimends that the bill now under consideration be 
 «o amended as to provide for the allotment ni not to exceed 80 acres to Se-cum- 
 ka-nunaxTn ifeu of that portion of Jloses Agreement allotment ^o. 36 embraced 
 within the homestead entry of Charles M. I-lKkerson. 
 
 This can be accomplished by striking out the words fifty and thirty-fave one- 
 hnnd-dths" in lines 4 and 5 of the bill, and inserting m place thereof the 
 word •' eighty." This will obviate the necessity of making a special survey of 
 kind to meet the requirements of the bill as now proposed and will m a small 
 measure compensate the Indian allottee for the inconvenience caused by the 
 delay in the receipt of his trust patent and having to take his allotment m two 
 
 "''if' the bilf is amended as suggested, it will have the unqualified approval of 
 this department. Attention is "invited to the fact that the word "or" in the 
 fourth line of the bill should be " of." For the further information of your 
 committee there are inclosed copies of reports submitted by the Commissioner 
 of Indian Affairs and the Commissioner of the General Land Oflice. 
 
 Cordially, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashuest, 
 
 CItinrmaii Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 [Making report on S. 4310.1 
 
 April 4, 1914. 
 
 The SfCEETAKT OF THE INTERIOE. 
 
 SiE- On March 19, 1914, you approved the recommendation of the Commis- 
 sioner of Indian Affairs that S. 4310, authorizing the Secretary of the In- 
 terior to make an allotment of not more than 50.35 acres of land within the 
 Colvllle Indian Reservation in the State of Washington to Se-cum-ka-nullax in 
 lieu of a portion of Moses's agreement allotment No. 36, embraced within the 
 homestead entry of Charlie J\I. Hickerson, be referred to this office for report, 
 showing the status of any entries, including Hickerson's, conflicting with said 
 allotment. The matter was accordingly referred to this office for such report. 
 
 I find that homestead entries 0701 and 04911, Waterville series, were allowed 
 to go of record for lands embraced within said Executive order allotment. The 
 entry 0701 of Frank Griffin, containing 162.55 acres, allowed Jlay 22, 1905, 
 covered lots 3 and 4 of sec. 17 ; lot 1 of sec. 20 ; lot 1 of sec. 18 ; lots 1, 2, and 3 
 of sec. 19, T. 36 S., R. 27 B. Final certificate was issued to Griffin covering 
 the said land April 27, 1908. The entry was canceled by office letter " G " of 
 October 31, 1913, addressed to the local officers, after the action of this office 
 holding the entry for cancellation was sustained by the Department on appeal. 
 
 Homestead entry 04911, of Charlie M. Hickerson, for the SW. i NW. i, and 
 lots 1, 2, and 3 of sec. 30, T. 36 K., R. 27 E., was allowed March 30, 1908. This 
 entry was held for cancellation as to lot 5 and part of lot 6, containing 50.35 
 acres, by office letter " 6 " of July 3, 1912. 
 
 On November 29, 1913, the department returned to this office the record of 
 this case with the statement that its decision, dated September 27, 1913, had 
 become final. In said decision it was held that while the Indian had the prior 
 right to the land of which he could not be deprived by reason of the failure to 
 note his claim of record on the plat of survey, or by the erroneous information 
 given to Hickerson as to the freedom of the land entered by him from any ad- 
 verse claim, the case might nevertheless properly be allowed to stand for a 
 reasonable length of time in order to afford Hickerson an opportunity to obtain 
 from Congress confirmation of the claim tc the lands in conflict, and an au- 
 thorization to make a compensatory allotment elsewhere to tht; Indian. 
 
 The bill authorizes and directs the Secretary of the Interior to accept the 
 homestead proof submitted by Hickerson for that part of his entry embraced 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 303 
 
 within the said allotment Ko. 36, if the same is shown to be in compliance with^ 
 the homestead laws. ^ 
 
 No final proof submitted by Hickerson upon the said entry has been received 
 in this oflice. ' 
 
 Attention is called to the fact that the word " or " in the fourth line of the- 
 biU should be of. 
 
 I return the papers transmitted. 
 Yery respectfully, 
 
 Clay Tallman, 
 
 Commissioner. 
 
 „ „ T March 16, 1914. 
 
 The SECRETAET OF THE INTERIOR. 
 
 Sir: The office is in receipt by reference from the department of a letter 
 from the chairman of the Committee on Indian Afairs, United States Senate 
 transmitting for report a copy of Senate 4310, a bill " Permitting Charles m' 
 Hickerson to include a portion of allotment No. 36 to Se-cum-ka-nullax of 
 Chief Moses's Band, in his homestead entry, and providing for allotment to' Se- 
 cum-ka-nullax in lieu thereof on the Colville Indian Reservation." 
 
 The main purpose of the bill, as indicated therein, is to perfect the title of 
 Charles M. Hickerson to that part of his homestead entry embraced in Moses's 
 agreement allotment 36 of Se-cum-ka-nullax within the diminished Colville 
 Indian Reservation. 
 
 The records of this office show that allotment No. 36 to Se-cum-ka-nullax, an 
 Indian of the Moses Band, is one of a number established by Executive order 
 dated May 1, 18S6, under the provisions of the act of July 4, 1884 (23 Stats.,, 
 pp. 79 and 80), which act ratified and confirmed agreement entered into July 
 7, 1883, between the Secretary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affairs and Chief Moses and other Indians of the Columbia and Colville Reser- 
 vations in what was then Washington Territory. According to the original 
 survey of this allotment, as described by links and chains in the order above 
 referred to, it contained an area of 637.44 acres. It appears, however, on 
 plats approved by the General Land Office on March 26, 1908, and December 1, 
 1910, to contain 653.80 acres. It should be noted that the agreement provided 
 for the allotment to each adult Indian approximately 1 square mile, or 640 acres. 
 
 With office letter of March 9, 1911, approved March 13, 1911, making applica- 
 tion for patent in the name of Se-cum-ka-nullax, allottee No. 36, under the act 
 of March 8, 1906 (34 Stats. L., 55-56), a schedule was submitted describing 
 allotment No. 36, as shown on the two plats above referred to. At this time 
 there was no information in the Indian Office of the existence of the Hickerson 
 entry, but attention was invited to homestead entry No. 8368, serial 0701, filed 
 by Frank Griflin, May 26, 1905, which was alleged to conflict with allotment No. 
 36; and it was recommended that the Commissioner of the General Land Office 
 be directed to take the necessary steps to have the entry of Frank Griffin can- 
 celed. Subsequently a copy of General Land Office letter to the register and 
 receiver at Waterville, Wash., dated July 3, 1912, regarding the conflict of the 
 Hickerson entry with allotment No. 36 was received. A copy of this letter is 
 inclosed. The record also contains copy of notice of appeal by Hickerson to 
 the Secretary from the decision of the Commissioner of the General Land 
 Office, dated September 28, 1912, in the matter of his homestead application. 
 In his letter transmitting the Hickerson appeal the superintendent of the Col- 
 ville Agency, among other things, said, " I have no comment to make on this 
 except that I believe the interests of the homesteader will not be greatly in- 
 jured should the Secretary conflrm the decision of the Commissioner of the 
 General Land Office, inasmuch as Mr. Hickerson would be able to purchase of 
 the Indian a place large enough for his current wheel and right of way for his 
 flume from the current wheel across the intervening Indian land to his own." 
 
 The office is not advised of the status of this appeal, but assumes that the 
 decision of the Commissioner of the General Land Office was sustained, for 
 fhe reason that if the Secretary had held in favor of Hickerson there would 
 be no need for the legislation now proposed. 
 
 In view of the foregoing, the office is not in a position to make an intelligent 
 report and recommendation on the pending bill. It is therefore recommended 
 that the matter be referred to the Commissioner of the General Land Office 
 for a report showing the status of any and all conflicts with allotment No. 
 
304 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 36 as sbown by the records of his office, with such suggestions and recom- 
 mendations as he may care to make on the pending bill. When received in 
 this office such report will form the basis, in part (if the department so de- 
 sires) of a comprehensive report and appropriate recommendations to the 
 chairiian of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. The papers are returned 
 herewith. 
 
 ' Cato Sells, Commissioner. 
 
 March 9, 1914. 
 Approved and referred to the Commissioner of the General Land Office, with 
 a copy of Senate No. 4310, for report in accordance with the foregoing recom- 
 mendations. 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 EXTENSION OF EESTEICTIVE PERIOD AGAINST ALIENATION OE LANDS. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I have a small item of legislation I would like to 
 offer at this time, if it is agreeable, as follows : 
 
 That so much of the Indian appropriation act of June twenty-one, nineteen 
 hundred and six (Thirty-fourth Statutes at Large, page three hundred and 
 twenty-sis), as authorizes the President to extend the restrictive period against 
 alienation In any trust or other patent issued to any Indian allottee be, and 
 the same is, hereby amended so as to read : 
 
 " That prior to the expiration of the trust or other restrictive period against 
 alienation on the lands allotted under any law or treaty to any Indian the 
 President may continue such trust or other restrictions against alienation for 
 such further period as he may deem best : Provided, hoiverer, That this shall not 
 apply to any lands of the Five Civilized Tribes or the Osage Nation, Oklahoma." 
 
 January 19, 1915. 
 justification. 
 
 The act of June 21, 1906 (34 Stats. L., 326), authorizes the President to 
 extend the trust period, or other period during which alienation is prohibited, 
 in any patent issued to Indian allottees, but this act specifically provides that 
 it shall not apply to any lands " in the Indian Territory." 
 
 No doubt it was intended at the time this act was passed to except from its 
 provisions the Five Civilized Tribes in Oklahoma rather than all of the lands 
 within the former Indian Territory. At the Qua paw Indian Agency, under the 
 Seneca Indian School, Oklahoma, which formed a part of the former " Indian 
 Territory," we have eight tribes or bands of Indians who have been allotted, 
 as follows: Eastern Shawnee, Blodoc, Peoria,. Seneca, Miami, Ottawa, Quapaw, 
 "Wyandotte. 
 
 Some of the members of these bands were allotted under the general allotment 
 act of February 8, 1887 (24 Stat., 388), as amended, while others were allotted 
 under special acts providing for the issuance of patents in fee with restriction 
 against alienation for a definite period. The restrictive period against aliena- 
 tion on two of the bands so allotted — the Peorias and Miamis — ^will expire 
 in April of this year, and in view of the proviso in the act of June 21, 1906 
 (supra), excepting lands in Indian Territory, there is no authority under exist- 
 ing law for extending the restrictive period. 
 
 All of the Indians at this agency are not sufficiently advanced to be deemed 
 capable of protecting their own interests, and it is very essential, therefore, that 
 the power to dispose of their lands without supervision from the Government 
 be limited for a further period. Other cases may arise where it will be ad- 
 visable to extend the trust period on lands allotted to the Indians at the 
 Quapaw Agency, and the suggested amendment to the act of June 21, 1906, is 
 simply designed to accomplish what it was believed to be the original intention 
 of that act, except from its provisions only the Indians of the Five Civilized 
 Tribes. 
 
 For a definition of "Indian Territory," see section 1, 26 Statutes at Large, 
 SI. A tabulated statement of allottees of the Quapaw Agency is attached. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 Expiration of restrictions on alTotments. 
 
 (QUAPAW) SENECA SCHOOL, OKLAHOMA. 
 
 [Period ot restriction, 25 years.] 
 
 305 
 
 Eeservationor 
 trilje. 
 
 Acts under wUcli allotted. 
 
 Number 
 of allot- 
 ment. 
 
 Date of 
 patents. 
 
 Kind of 
 patents. 
 
 Restriction 
 will expire— 
 
 Eastern Sliawnee. 
 
 Feb. 8, 1887 (24 Stat., 388). . . 
 Feb. 8, 1887 (24 Stat., 388), 
 
 amended by act Feb. 28, 
 
 1891 (26 Stat., 794). 
 May 27, 1902 (32 Stat., 245). . 
 Mar. 2, 1889 (25 Stat., 1013). . . 
 Feb. 8, 1887 (24 Stat., 388), 
 
 amended by act Feb. 28, 
 
 1891 (26 Stat., 794), 
 do 
 
 72 
 12 
 
 33 
 65 
 68 
 
 157 
 153 
 234 
 236 
 301 
 
 134 
 238 
 
 Mar. 5,1891 
 Dec. 30,1892 
 
 Oct. 30,1907 
 Apr. 12,1890 
 Oct. 10,1891 
 
 Apr. 26,1892 
 Apr. 8,1890 
 Sept. 26,1896 
 Oct. 19,1896 
 Dec. 30,1892 
 
 May 23,1905 
 Apr. 19,1892 
 
 Trust 
 
 Mar. 4,1916 
 
 Do 
 
 do 
 
 do 
 
 Rest, tee 
 
 Dec 29 1917 
 
 Do . .. 
 
 Oct. 29,1932 
 Apr. 11,1915 
 Oct. 9, 1916 
 
 Miami (Western). 
 
 Ottawa 
 
 do 
 
 Rest, fee 
 
 do 
 
 do 
 
 Apr. 24,1917 
 Apr. 7,1915 
 Sept. 25,1921 
 Oct. 18,1921 
 
 
 Mar. 2, 1889 (25 Stat., 1013).. 
 Mar. 2, 1895 (28 Stat., 907)... 
 . do, . 
 
 
 bo.":::::::: 
 
 
 Feb. 8, 1887 (24 Stat., 388), 
 amended by act Feb. 28, 
 1891 (26 Stat., 794). 
 
 May 27, 1902 (32 Stat., 245).. 
 
 Feb. 8, 1887 (24 Stat., 388). . . 
 
 Dec. 29,1917 
 
 Do 
 
 do 
 
 do 
 
 May 22,1930 
 
 Wyandotte 
 
 Apr. 18,1917 
 
 Senator Clapp. How does that change the existing law ? 
 Mr. Meritt. The existing law reads as follows : 
 
 That prior to the expiration of the trust period of any Indian allottee to whom 
 a trust or other patent containing restrictions on alienation has been or shall 
 be issued under any law or treaty the President may in his discretion continue 
 such restrictions on alienation for such period as he may deem best : Provided, 
 hoicever. That this shall not apply to lands in the Indian Territory. 
 
 This situation has arisen : The restrictive period on certain allot- 
 ments in the Quapaw Nation, Okla., will expire in April. The 
 existing la^v will prohibit us from getting an extension of the trust 
 period." There are about 40 allottees who are incompetent anci whose 
 restrictions will expire in April, and unless we get this legislation 
 they will lose their allotments. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that that be agreed to. 
 
 The Chaiejian. Without objection it will be agreed to. 
 
 PAYMENT TO ME. M. L. MOTT, ATTOENET FOE THE CREEK NATION. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, last year we put an item in here to 
 pay Mr. Mott $682.42 for services as attorney for the Creek JNation 
 ^om January 15 to February 18, 1914. I think Senator Page and 
 Senator Groina, you will recall the matter that it was thoroughly 
 discussed at the time, and we agreed he ought to ^^^^ t^^l«^^^*/^^^ P^^- 
 It was put in the bill, passed the Senate, and went out in <=on^fe[«?«|- 
 Of course we can never tell what a conference will fo^fh anything, 
 but there is some reason, perhaps, to beheve t^at this tune the con 
 ferees will not combat this so seriously, and I move that it be inserted 
 
 in the bill. . . , , , • j +„ 
 
 The Chaieman. Without objection that is agreed to. 
 
 82833 — VOL 1 — 15- 
 
 -20 
 
306 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 NEVADA. 
 
 Senator Pittm vn. I want to call the attention of the committee to 
 ■^omethino- 1 hare just observed, and that is that the House bill, the bill 
 i believe that we are now considering, has reduced the estimates for 
 1916 for the State of Nevada from $49,700 to $46,700. The appro- 
 priation for 1916 was $49,700. The hearings on that disclose no rea- 
 son whatever. The hearings on this matter show that the statement 
 of the superintendent of the Indian school at Stewart puts it at 
 $69,730. The department makes the estimate $49,700, which was 
 the same as it was last year. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I believe the committee allowed us our estimates on 
 the support item and increased the House appropriation from 
 $41,700 to $43,750. For general repairs and improvements the 
 amount allowed by the House was $5,000 instead of $5,950. We 
 would be glad to have our estimates on that item as well as on the 
 support fund. 
 
 The CHAiEiitAN. The committee agreed to your estimate on the 
 support item? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chaiejnian. But they struck off $950 on the other item? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. We would be glad to have that amount 
 added to the bill, if agreeable. 
 
 The Chaieman. That is the amount of your estimate ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Pittman. There is no excuse for the reduction; none at- 
 tempted to be offered in the hearings. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We need every dollar at that school. That is shown 
 by our justification. 
 
 The Chaieman. What do you say about that, Senator Page? 
 
 Senator Page. I never vote for a cut on schools. 
 
 The Chaieman. Senator Gronna, are you agreeable to it? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Yes; I have no objection. If the commissioner 
 says he needs it, that is all right. 
 
 The Chairinian. In the absence of objection, the item will be 
 agreed to at the amount estimated. 
 
 PATMENT TO IMR. CHAELES J. KAPPLEE FOE COMPILATION OF INDIAN 
 
 LAWS, ETC. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, some days ago the committee voted 
 to recommend a paym=?nt for the compilation of the third volume of 
 Indian Laws. I have heen thinking the matter over, and I am satis- 
 fied the Appropriatiora Committee will probably reject the whole 
 thing unless we, as the Indian Committee, under whose supervision 
 the work was done, recommend an amount. The amount I named 
 in the amendment offered on the floor of the Senate the other day 
 was $3,000. We paid for the first two volumes $5,000, but the third 
 volume has much more labor in it, because it contains the annotations 
 giving decisions. The committee will find on examining tliis book 
 a very complete system of citations of cases bearing upon the various 
 laws that are printed in the book. I am inclined to think we ought 
 to propose to the Appropriation Committee some definite amount. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 307 
 
 The Chaikmak. Have you the amendment there? 
 
 Senator Clapp. The amendment I offered in the Senate was $3,000. 
 
 Senator Page. I am not very well informed as to this method of 
 doing business. It strikes me as wrong for a man to go on and 
 prepare a book with no sort of contract or suggestion, except a mere 
 casual talk with one member of the committee, and then come in and 
 take his chance of getting an allowance for it. I am opposed to the 
 whole thing myself. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The only objection you could make to this system 
 was that there was no price agreed upon in advance. The committee 
 acted on this in the initiative and voted to have the laws and the 
 treaties compiled., and they were put in two volumes up to that date. ' 
 The treaties are in one volume and the laws in another. The matter 
 was then brought before the committee and before the Senate as to 
 the compensation. We have paid $5,000 for the first two volumes. 
 Mr. Kappler was selected because he had been the clerk of this com- 
 mittee for a great many years and was thoroughly familiar with the 
 work and had, as clerk, known of a vast amount of the legislation 
 himself. It is true that there was no price agreed upon. In fact, 
 it would be pretty hard to agree in advance. He took his chances 
 on the committee recommending an appropriation. 
 
 Senator Page. Tell us who made the contract with him to compile 
 that particular volume we are talking about. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The individual was the chairman of the com- 
 mittee, through whom the committee acts. 
 
 Senator Page. Did you act by any direction of the committee? 
 Any resolution or motion ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes ; taken years ago, to have the laws and treaties 
 printed, edited, and compiled. 
 
 Senator Page. I wanted to ask the Senator if Mr. Kappler has 
 rendered an account indicating what it is really worth or what it 
 has cost him to compile these laws ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No. I do not know how you could render a bill 
 for a matter of this land. 
 
 Senator Geoxka. I will ask the commissioner if he ]i.nows any- 
 thing about it or if he cares to tell us anything about what he thmks 
 a work of this kind is worth. . , , ^ j; 
 
 Mr Meritt. Mr. Chairman, I am familiar with the volume o± 
 laws compiled by Mr. Kappler. I will say that we find that volume 
 of great convenience in administering Indian affairs in the Indian 
 Service. We have supplied our leading clerks in the office with 
 copies, and we have constant calls from the field, from our supenn- 
 tendents, to be furnished with copies The compilation is Probably 
 the most complete compilation of Indian laws and J^-eat f ^^d 
 agreements that is found anywhere. I would not like *« ^tf « how 
 much compensation Mr. Kappler should receive for this work. 
 That, of course, is a matter to be determined by the committee and 
 
 Congress. , ., „ ,, • 
 
 Senator Clapp. Here is the authority for this: 
 
 In the Senate of the United States March 3, 1911. authorized to have 
 
 Resolved, That the Committee on Indian ^^a^^s ^s nereoy ^" ^ . 
 
 prepared for the use of the S^^ate a con a o lf^^^,,^,a and 
 
 tire orders, proclamations, and so torm, relating 
 
 rroelaimed since December 1, 1902. 
 
308 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Then, on August 11, 1912 : 
 
 Reslved, That the manuscript of the laws, agreements, Executive orders, 
 proclamations, and so forth, relating to Indian affairs be printed as a Senate 
 document. 
 
 December 6, 1913 : 
 
 Resolved, That the illustrations accompanying the proclamations of the 
 President and included in the manuscript of Senate Document Numbered Seven 
 hundred and nineteen. Sixty-third Congress, laws, agreements. Executive orders, 
 proclamations, and so forth, rein ting to Indian Affairs, be printed therewith, 
 and that five hundred additional copies of the said document be printed for sale 
 by the superintendent of documents of the Government Printing Office. 
 
 Those are all attested by the Secretary of the Senate. 
 
 Senator Page. I think the first you read there would seem to be 
 authority for this work. Does it say by whom it shall be done ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No. 
 
 Senator Page. Well, you have given the authority. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Personally, I do not think that $3,000 is any too 
 much for that kind of a work. It is a very carefully prepared work 
 with annotations and cases on the laws. But that is a question for 
 the committee entirely to settle. If you do not want to recommend 
 that much, recommend less. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I have no doubt but what Mr..Kappler has been 
 authorized to do the work and should have some compensation for it, 
 but it seems to me that $3,000 is a large amount. I may be entirely 
 wrong, because I am not competent to judge, but I think it would be 
 safe to take a chance and allow him $2,000. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Then make it $2,000. Get through with it one 
 way or the other. It is immaterial to me. 
 
 Senator GrojSna. I move that we recommend that the Appropria- 
 tions Committee allow Mr. Charles J. Kappler the sum of $2,000 as 
 compensation for the compilation of the third volume of these laws. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection? 
 
 Senator Page. I do not object, but I am not certain that $3,000 is 
 not nearer right. 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection. Senator Clapp, you 
 prepare the proper language recommending it to the Appropriations 
 Committee. 
 
 Senator Page. As to the matter of compensation, I would prefer 
 that the chairman refer this matter to some man who can say whether 
 It IS worth $2,000 or $3,000. If it is worth $3,000 I do not want him 
 to have $2,000, because he has evidently acted now upon authority 
 of law. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is a matter that would always rest in the judg- 
 ment of whomever you selected on the subject to determine the. ex- 
 actness of a charge of that kind. 
 
 Senator Page. I am going to say, Mr. Chairman, if you have some- 
 body give the slightest investigation I will be glad to move to recon- 
 sider this and make it $3,000. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I make a motion to reconsider the vote. 
 
 (The motion to reconsider was not agreed to.) 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 3O9 
 
 CONTRACTS OF ATTORNEYS, FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES. 
 
 Mr. ISlERiTT Mr. Chairman, you referred to me a few days ago a 
 letter signed by Messrs. Kappler, Merillat, and Jones, in connection 
 with the item on page 2* of the bill, as follows: 
 
 „ „ Tj, A Washington, D. C, January 15, 1915. 
 
 Hon. Henhy F. Ashuest, ' 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, D. 0. 
 
 Sir: We respectfully ask that the following amendment be added to the 
 Indian appropriation bill on page 27, after line 15 : " except where contracts 
 have been approved by the Secretary of the Interior in accordance with 
 existing law." 
 
 The act of April 30, 1908, contains the following prj vision: 
 
 "That contracts heretofore or hereafter made by and between persons 
 stricken by the Secretary of the Interior from the final rolls of the Five Civi- 
 lized Tribes, and attorneys employed by them to secure their restoration to the 
 rolls, shall be valid and enforceable when approved by the Secretary of the 
 Interior in their original or in such modified form as he may deem equitable 
 and not otherwise ; and such contracts as are approved as herein provided, 
 when recorded in the county where such land is located, shall be a lien in the 
 event of the restoration of such persons to the rolls against allotted lands or 
 tribal funds of the persons so restored to or given rights upon said rolls." 
 (35 Stat, 70; 3 Kappler, 33S.) 
 
 We were the attorneys for certain persons who were unlawfully stricken from 
 the rolls by the Secretary of the Interior, and by proceedings in court we pro- 
 cured their enrollment and they are now enjoying full rights as members of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes. We had 'contracts with these persons, and on 
 account of the difficulty in collecting our fees we agreed with the then Commis- 
 siouer of Indian Affairs, Mr. Leupp, that we would reduce them if there was a 
 way of insuring their payment, and we agreed with the department to permit 
 the Secretary to fix the fees on the understanding that the department would 
 recommend to Congress that we have a lien on the allottees' lands and funds 
 for the amount approved by the Secretary. Congress thereupon passed the 
 above provision, and under it the Secretary has approved several contracts, 
 one for $700 running in favor of former Senator Blair, of New Hampshire, 
 and ourselves, and one in favor of J. L. Fechheimer, of Chicasha, Okla., and 
 ourselves for .$400. 
 
 We hardly think that it is the intention of Congress, in view of the legisla- 
 tion of 1908 and the action of the department In approving our liens, now to 
 pass an act invalidating our liens. We have acted in perfect good faith in this 
 matter and have waited since 1908 for our money, and unless the provision on 
 page 27 of the bill is amended as proposed above, we are afraid an injustice 
 will be done to us. 
 
 Trusting that this amendment will be made to the pending bill, we are. 
 Yours, respectfully, 
 
 Charles J. Kappleb. 
 Chakles H. Mebiixat. 
 James K. Jones. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They suggest an amendment on page 27 of the bill, 
 after the word " act," in line 15 of the original bill, as follows : 
 
 Except where such lien has been approved by the Secretary of the Interior 
 in the course of existing law. 
 
 That amendment will be agreeable to the office if it is modified to 
 read: 
 
 Except where contracts have been approved by the Secretary of the Interior 
 in accordance with existing law. 
 
310 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chai«man. If a payment is to be made to the Choctaws or 
 Chickasaws, I, as one of the trustees of the Indians, want to see 
 every dollar of the trust funds of those Indians go to them Avithout 
 any deductions. I do not Avant a cent thereof diverted. 
 
 Mr. Memtt. We are not asking for the legislation. It was simply 
 sent to the office by the chairman for our suggestion. They have 
 contracts approved in a few cases whei'e the ^^vork has already been 
 done. 
 
 PtmCHASE OF GOODS AND SUPPLIES FOE THE INDIAN SERVICE. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The office has an atoendment on that reading as 
 
 follows : 
 
 Provided, TTiat section thirty-seven hundred and nine, Revised Statutes, in so 
 far as that section requires that advertisement be made, shall apply only to 
 those purchases and contracts for supplies or services, except personal services, 
 for the Indian field service which exceed in amount the sum of $100 each, and 
 section twenty-three of the act of June twenty-fifth, nineteen hundred and ten 
 (Thirty-sixth" Statutes at Large, page eight hundred and sixty-one), is hereby 
 amended accordingly. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is opposed by the independent commission. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not know whether that is opposed' or not. 
 
 Senator Lane. They oppose it. 
 
 The Chairman. They stated in a letter to the chairman that they 
 had sent a copy of their recommendations to every Senator. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have not read their report on legislation yet, Sen- 
 ator. I would be glad to obtain a copy of it. 
 
 Senator Lane. They say : 
 
 (6) The estimates to Congress for appropriations for the Indian Service con- 
 tained a provision that section 3709, Revised Statutes, requiring advertisement 
 before purchases may be made, should apply only to purchases over $100. The 
 House Committee on Indian Aifairs eliminated this item from the bill. The 
 chairman of the board is In accord, with the action of the House committee in 
 this matter. It is not believed that the waiving of the requirement of adver- 
 tising would have the effect of preventing the present delays in completing pur- 
 chases for Indian schools and agencies, while It undoubtedly would let down 
 the bars to extravagance and remove a protection needed by the field superin- 
 tendent. In a recent investigation of this subject, which has not yet been 
 reported to the Secretary of the Interior, it has been found that the chief cause 
 for delay in the purchases of Indian supplies is in connection with the regula- 
 tions of the Indian Bureau requiring superintendents to obtain authorities pre- 
 vious to completing purchases. 
 
 Mr. Vaux thinks the delay is in the department — in their methods 
 there — that that can be remedied by revising those or changing them. 
 That is the report of this commission. 
 
 Senator Page. Would this go out on a point of order, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This legislation is very desirable and is strongly 
 urged by the expert in our department who assists us in purchasing 
 the goods for the Indian Service. My own experience shows that 
 this legislation is very much needed. 
 
 Senator Clapp. What is the language, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The purpose of the proposed law is simply this : To 
 allow superintendents authority to purchase not to exceed $100 worth 
 of goods without advertising and without going through the ware- 
 houses. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is a right that does not exist now? 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 311 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; except in emergencies. And the comptroller 
 has held that they must be strictly emergencies, and he has out a 
 very narrow interpretation on that word. As it is now, an Indian 
 will come to the snpenntendent in the spring, when he is ready to 
 plow-about two days before he is ready to begin plowing— and will 
 ask the superintendent for equipment. The superintendent, under 
 existing law, will have to advertise for 30 or 60 days. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I know that. I am getting at the point of order 
 Being an enlargement, probably technically it would be subiect to 
 a point of order, although it is ^-ery meritorious legislation. 
 
 Senator Lane. You are allowed to buy emergency supplies now up 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We can buy emergency supplies. Senator, but the 
 comptroller has held that they must be strictly emergencies. For 
 example, an Indian needs a plow to-day to begin plowing his farm 
 that would not be held to be an emergency. We would have to o-q 
 ahead and advertise it. By the time he got the goods the plowin"- 
 season would be over. * 
 
 Senator Lane. Do you not know the fall before how many Indians 
 wUl need plows in the spring ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The Indians, in a great many cases, will not ask for 
 anything until they absolutely need it, and the superintendent has 
 so many other duties to perform that he will not anticipate the needs 
 of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. The State of Oregon limits it to $100. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We are simply asking an authority that is granted in 
 practically every State in the Union. 
 
 Senator Page. It strikes me on first impression that that is open 
 to a point of order, but perhaps it is not. I do not Iniow but there 
 might be a compromise made, and then no point of order may be 
 made, putting on it a $50 limit. That would take in a plow or har- 
 row, or anything of that kind. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We will try to get along with a $50 limit. 
 
 Senator Lane. All this applies principally to plows. But will 
 not this allow you to spend $100 to-day, $100 to-morrow, and keep 
 it up until you eat up all the appropriation you have ? 
 
 That will not be done. This is to meet a need that you would 
 approve of heartily on the various reservations. It is to enable us to 
 get more prompt action on these reservations. We are now criticised 
 for having so much red tape. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection? 
 
 Senator Page. I think it is a pretty close question as to whether a 
 point of order will be made. I think we should compromise on that, 
 and make it $50 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Meritt, will that be all right? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. Then, the amendment is agreed to at $50. 
 
 WITHHOLDINGS FROM ALLOTMENTS, CEEEK NATION. 
 
 The Chaieman. Mr. Mott, is that what you want to be heard on? 
 Mr. Mott. Yes. ^ , ., , 
 
 Senator Page. Do .you want the legislation, or do you oppose it« 
 
312 INJJIAJ^ Al'PKOPlilATION" BILL. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. I do not object to the consideration of the joint reso- 
 lution. I object to its consideration on the Indian Appropriation 
 bill. 
 
 Senator Page. Then you are here in opposition to the proposed 
 legislation ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes. 
 
 The Chairman. It is on the bill now and he wants to keep it off. 
 
 We will have the hearing on this item that we agreed to now. 
 
 The mooted language will be found on page 53, line 16, of the 
 preliminary print of the bill, which reads as follows : 
 
 That the unallotted land or public domain of the Greek Nation or Tribe of 
 Indians, including any land the title to which has been, or may be, recovered 
 for the Creek Nation in any pending or other suit or otherwise, be, and the 
 same is hereby, withheld from allotment to members of said nation or tribe, 
 and that the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized, in his 
 discretion, to cause such land to be sold or leased for the benefit of the Creek 
 Nation or Tribe of Indians, under such rules and regulations as he may pre- 
 scribe, the proceeds of such sale or lease to be paid into the Treasury of the 
 United States to the credit of said Creek Nation. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Mott, do you oppose the language of this 
 amendment ? 
 
 Mr. Mott. I oppose the legislation as being unconstitutional. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I understood you, in response to an inquiry of 
 Senator Page, to say that your opposition was to placing it on this 
 bill. 
 
 Mr. Mott. I meant that my opposition was that as it was, not 
 germane to an Indian bill I would prefer the discussion on the joiat 
 resolution, which is an independent bill. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You are opposed to this proposition? 
 
 Mr. Mott. Yes. 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator Lane). Mr. Mott, give your name, 
 residence, and occupation. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. M. L. MOTT, ATTORNEY AT LAW, MUSKOGEE, 
 
 OKLA. 
 
 Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, this legislation proposes to annul 
 all legislation looking to the allotting and distribution of property 
 of the Creek Nation among its members. I want to say to you at 
 the outset, on my own behalf, that I was attorney for this tribe of 
 Indians for 10 years. My services closed on the ISth of last Janu- 
 ary. I am familiar with the treaties and the laws affecting the tribe 
 throughout the distribution of its property. 
 
 I, as tribal attorney, regarded it as my duty to stand for the 
 agreements, and for the enforcement of agreements between the 
 (government and the tribe. And that is what I am doing in my 
 position here. I am standing now for that enforcement. If there 
 were any obligations resting upon me as attorney for the tribe it 
 would be that I stand for the agi:eements between the Government 
 and the tribe. 
 
 This legislation proposes to nullify the agreements. As I said, 
 i± i were tribal attorney I would stand against this resolution. 
 1 heretore 1 am standing now where I would stand if I were tribal 
 attorney. I would do that without regard to the attitude of the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 31g 
 
 tribe itself, witliout regard to the attitude of its officers, and with- 
 out regard to the attitude of the Government 
 
 _ I assume that out of 18,716 members, a hirge number of whom are 
 Ignorant, 18,712 of them would not be opposed to legislation that 
 '^®?-?;!'^'^T.^ members of the tribe of money and gave it to the 
 18,712. For that reason I would stand for the limited, defenseless 
 4 as agamst the unanimous demand of the 18,712. 
 
 This is an important matter, as you will see as I proceed and I 
 will go into the situation thoroughly. ' 
 
 Senator Clapp. I should like to ask a question. Are there any 
 allottees entitled to allotment who have not yet received their allot- 
 ments ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes; five of them. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Is that the five that Judge Allen had refer- 
 ence to? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes; this is the five. 
 
 In behalf of the enrolled members of the Creek Tribe of Indians 
 who have not received their share of the tribal lands of the nation,^ 
 and who it will be attempted to preclude therefrom in the event the 
 above resolution becomes a law, this memorandum is submitted for 
 the consideration of your committee. These members are five in 
 number, and are as follows : 
 
 Millard Sanders, minor Creeli by blood ; Jack Elton Wilson, minor Creek by 
 blood, No. 130; Quenton Garrett, newborn Creek freedman, No. 219; David 
 Bowlegs, newborn Creek freedman. No. 796; Lula Butler, nee Walcott, freed- 
 man. No. 2.32. 
 
 The purpose and effect of this resolution is apparent on its face 
 and requires no explanation or comment further than to say that 
 upon its passage and approval these five will have to fight through 
 the courts for the right to share in the lands of the tribe, a right 
 which has been secured to and enjoyed by the remaining members 
 18,712 in number. 
 
 The fact that approximately 16 years have elapsed since the in- 
 auguration of the plan of allotment which this resolution proposes 
 to upset, that all but five of the enrolled members of the Creek Tribe 
 have received lands from the public domain of said tribe, and that 
 the affairs of the tribe are now practically closed, we believe, calls 
 for some satisfactory explanation for so radical a change in policy 
 at this late day. It would seem but just that before attempting to 
 deprive so few of a right which has been enjoyed by so many, some 
 compelling reason should be shown which makes the change im- 
 perative. The necessity must indeed be great which would warrant 
 an incursion upon the rights of individuals such as is here proposed. 
 
 There is now remaining of the Creek tribal lands but a small 
 acreage which has not been allotted. In addition to this there are 
 some tracts which have heretofore been allotted which the Creek 
 Nation hopes to recover on account of wrongful allotment and seg- 
 regation from the public domain 6f the tribe. Three of these tracts 
 are valuable for oil and are estimated to be worth as much as 
 $1,000,000 each. The resolution includes such lands as may be re- 
 covered for the tribe. Those five remaining allottees have filed on 
 and made application for these three tracts and are now prosecuting 
 their claim for them in the Department of the Interior and the courts. 
 
314 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 These claims are being resisted chiefly on the ground that the prop- 
 erty is valuable and should be reserved for the tribe. The purpose 
 of the resolution, therefore, is to prevent these claimants from secur- 
 ino- in allotment these valuable tracts of land. 
 
 Of the five citizens who are thus affected the first four named are 
 minors. Millard Sanders, Jack Elton Wilson, Quenton Garrett, and 
 Lula Walcott have each of them lost in contest with other members 
 of the tribe lands which had been selected for them, and their failure 
 to select other land awaiting the outcome of these contests was due 
 to no fault of theirs. David Bowlegs, a minor, without fa,ther or 
 mother, and until recently without a guardian to act for hiin, was 
 prevented from making a selection both because of his incapacity on 
 account of minority and because the Secretary of the Interior, on 
 July 30, 1907, after the rolls had been finally closed, without notice 
 to i3owlegs and without giving him an opportunity to be heard in 
 the matter, attempted to strike his name from the roll and has since 
 refused to recognize his rights as a citizen of the tribe. 
 
 In the Lula Walcott case the Government and the Creek Nation 
 issued her a patent to this land, on which she tried to assert her 
 rights in court. Her rights were resisted by another member of the 
 tribe who claimed preferential rights to that specific allotment be- 
 cause of improvements that had been made on the property by this 
 contesting allottee. The agreement provided that there should be no 
 preferential rights except in cases where parties in possession of land 
 had put permanent improvements on same. The Government found 
 that Lula Walcott was entitled to this specific allotment because 
 she had selected it, and that there were no such improvements on 
 there as gave Garrett any preferential rights. When the patents 
 were issued to her by the Creek Nation and the Government she car- 
 ried it into the courts. 
 
 For more than 16 years Lula Walcott has been prosecuting vigor- 
 ously in the courts her claim for a specific allotment, and for which 
 the department had issued her patents; for nine years Quenton 
 Garrett, through his guardian, has done likewise; for eight years 
 Jack Elton Wilson has been asserting his rights in the department 
 and the courts; Millard Sanders, through his guardian, prosecuted 
 his suit against the Baptist Missionary Society (now Bacone Indian 
 College, at Muskogee, Okla. ) to the United States court, where it was 
 recently lost to said college ; and for nine years David Bowlegs has 
 been depiived of an allotment of the tribal land to which he is en- 
 titled as an enrolled citizen, because of the unlaAvful act of the de- 
 partment in attempting to strike his name from the roll. The first 
 four of the above-named the department and the tribe now admit are 
 citizens and entitled to an allotment of the tribal lands. 
 
 It will be seen, therefore, that the failure of these citizens to secure 
 allotments has been due to no lack of diligence on their part or to 
 any desire or effort to secure an advantage over other members of 
 the tribe in the selection of valuable land. 
 
 While these allottees have been unfortunately in a position where 
 they have been obliged at great expense to fight for their patrimony 
 in the courts, and are now, by the proposed legislation, confronted 
 with the possibility of being deprived practically altogether of the 
 lights given them by treaty stipulation, 18,712 other enrolled citi- 
 zens have been permitted to select lands of the tribe without ques- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 315 
 
 tion; their titles have been perfected without contioversy or expense 
 to them; their selections have been made from the best and most 
 valuable tracts of land available, and the Government has not only 
 permitted and encouraged this distribution of the tribal property, 
 but has thrown its protecting arm around those who have been thus 
 favored, by enforcing rules and regulations for the conservation of 
 the property thus secured. It is probable that the mineral value 
 alone of the property thus passing from the tribe to individual mem- 
 bers is not less than $200,000,000 in production up to this time, and 
 will probably reach twice that sum in the end. 
 
 There is no longer available, aside from these three allotments 
 which are in litigation, any desirable tracts of land subject to selec- 
 tion. In fact during the past three years the remaining unallotted 
 lands have been sold or offered for sale, and have been disposed of as 
 rapidly as possible. Those few tracts remaining are in small frac- 
 tions widely separated, and are such as ^vere so poor in character 
 that a sale "of them could not be made and most of them have been 
 offered by the Government at public auction tvo or three times with- 
 out bidders. It is only Ijecause of this fact that there now remains 
 anv unallotted land in the Creek Nation. 
 
 Now, after having permitted all but five members of the tribe to 
 lake their choice of the tribal property, after having offered for sale 
 or having disposed of the ^ery best of that remaining, and at a time 
 vvhen there is nothing left but worthless fractional parts of land in 
 the whole domain of the tribe, it is proposed to take from these even 
 the right to select from that. 
 
 That is what this resolution does. It withdraws from allotment 
 every foot of land in the Creek Nation that has not been already 
 
 allotted. , 1 p J . 1 /-I 1 
 
 Senator Clapp. If that were done would there be left of the Creek 
 fund a sufficient amount to apportion to these five what would sub- 
 stantially equal the average value of the allotment that had been 
 made, independent of the exceptional cases where oil has been found 
 on the allotments ? . „ ^, tj.,i i j. 
 
 Mr MoTT. I will deal with that question fully a little later on, 
 Senator. If you would not object I would prefer to answer it then. 
 1 go into it in detail, the very question you have asked. 
 
 Senator Clapp. At this point, although perhaps not germane to 
 your argument, but with your familiarity with the Creek matteis, i 
 iould like to ask you, outside of these allotments which are m con- 
 troversy -and which the department is trying to cancel, what ap- 
 proxSte value would you place, based upon y«- l-r/^^g.^^ 
 the situation there, of the most allotments that have been allowed ^ 
 Mr MoTT. Among these three ? . ., •,■■ 
 
 Senator Clapp. No; outside. You say in the aggregate it will 
 amount to some hundreds of million dollars. ^ -. |-„„ u„^^ for 
 
 Mr MoTT Basing oil on a value of $1 a barrel, as it has been lor 
 sometimeTn SSah^ma, until recently, tl^^^Ji^t^o be'of ^ v^a ue 
 Pool allotted to members o^he tnbe -e^^^ *^,jLn, belauTe 
 ryTer^rorn'tSottd a^mountinl tols much as a million 
 and a half or two million dollars. 
 Senator Clapp. To individual allottees^ 
 
316 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. To individual members of the tribe. And these allot- 
 ments that I am very conservative about in one respect, and liberal 
 in another, are probably worth a million dollars— these three allot- 
 ments in controversy, $1,000,000 each. 
 
 But under present conditions in Oklahoma, where oil is worth 55 
 cents a barrel, with the price descending rather than ascending, I 
 am going to be bold enough to assert that there is not a. man or a 
 corporation, including the corporation known as the Standard Oil 
 Co., that would give $600,000 for either one of them to-day. 
 
 I will show you that under the present conditions existing, as the 
 Government is tied up in the leasing of these allotments, the tribe is 
 not in the most valuable one going to get a cent if you pass this 
 legislation and it is held to be constitutional. That is true because 
 of certain facts I am going to bring to your attention before I get 
 through. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Only a few allottees have secured the valuable 
 land that you referred to a moment ago ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. There are a few who have secured allotments when 
 the territory on which they were allotted was proven. There are a 
 number of them who have secured allotments where the value was 
 not known at the time and which have developed into a sum equal 
 to a million and a half. Of course the allottee did not get that price. 
 He got a one-eighth royalty. They talk to you gentlemen about giv- 
 ing an allottee a million dollars, and that it is worth a million dollars, 
 and so forth. Supposing it is. According to the policy of the In- 
 terior Department to-day, what does the member of the tribe get 
 out of it? They do not approve a lease to-day to a full-blood or 
 restricted Indian — and they never have — for any amoimt in excess 
 of one-eighth royalty. One-eighth of $1,000,000 — you can make the 
 estimate yourself — is $125,000. It is true that in proven territory 
 they sometimes exact a bonus, which is a bagatelle, in fact, so far as 
 the consideration is concerned. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Has it ever been the practice of the department 
 to withdraw any lands valuable for minerals? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. I am going to show you that the question was put up 
 to the Creek Nation after oil had been discovered there, and that the 
 tribe refused to reserve the mineral for benefit of the tribe. 
 
 The act of June 28, 1898 (30 Stat. L., 495), known as the Curtis 
 Act, in section 11 provided : 
 
 That when the roll of citizenship of any one of said nations or tribes is fully 
 completed as provided by law, and the survey of the lands of said nation or 
 tribe is also completed, the commission heretofore appointed under acts of Con- 
 gress and known as the Dawes Commission shall proceed to allot the ex- 
 clusive use and occupancy of the surface of all the lands of said nation or tribe 
 susceptible of allotment among the citizens thereof as shown by said roll, giv- 
 ing to each, as far as possible, his fair and equal share thereof, considering the 
 nature and fertility of the soil, location, and value of same. 
 
 This treaty was never agreed to by the Creeks because of its sur- 
 face provision, and for that reason the act of March 1, 1901 (31 Stat. 
 L., 861), known as the original Creek agreement, was entered into, 
 which contained the following provision : 
 
 At the time the Creek Nation rejected that surface provision there 
 had been drilled a well in the town of Muskogee in 1890 by the 
 Standard Oil Co., in which oil was discovered. In 1900 the Deep 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 317 
 
 Fork Pool was discovered. There was drilling on town lots in that 
 locality, and that aggravated the question of the reserxation for the 
 benefit of the tribe of the^ mineral interests, and notwithstanding 
 that knowledge and the insistence of the (rovernment the tribe re- 
 fused to reserve the mineral. 
 
 Sec. 3. All lands of said tribe, except ns herein providefl, shall be allotted 
 among the citizens of said tribe by said commission so as to t,'i^■e each an equal 
 share of the whole in value, as nearly as may be, in manner following: There 
 shall be allotted to each citizen one hundred and sixty acres of land — bound- 
 aries to conform to the Government survey— which may be selected by him so as 
 to include improvements which belong to him. One hundred and sixty acres of 
 land, valued at six dollars and fifty cents per acre, shall constitute the standard 
 value of an allotment, and shall be the measure for the equalization of values; 
 and any allottee receiving lands of less than such standard value may, at any 
 time, select other lands which at their appraised value are sufficient to "make his 
 allotment equal in value to the standard so fixed. 
 
 Section 2 of the same act provides for the appraisement of all 
 lands of the Creek Nation, with certain exceptions for town sites and 
 other reser\'ations, by committees under the direction of the Com- 
 mission to the Five Civilized Tribes, such appraisement to be ap- 
 proved by the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Certain minor changes as to appraisement are made by the Creek 
 supplemental agreement, act of June 30, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 500), 
 but the provision as to the approval by the Secretary and the maxi- 
 mum value of $6.50 per acre are retained. In neither of the Creek 
 agreements was any reservation made of the mineral. 
 
 Under this scheme of allotment all the lands in the Creek Nation 
 were appraised, the minimum value of any tract being fixed at 50 
 cents per acre, and values ranging from that to the maximum of 
 $6.50 per acre. Upon this appraisement allotments have been made 
 to aU members of the tribe except the five who will be affected by 
 this legislation. Equalization money has been paid, or provision 
 has been made for its payment, to all but these five in a sum sufficient, 
 with the land already received by them, to make the total value in 
 money and land equal $800, leaving under the terms of the treaty 
 $240 due to each member receiving land, the appraised value of 
 which did not exceed $800. 
 
 There were enrolled in the Creek Nation under the various acts re- 
 ferred to 18.716 citizens. According to Commissioner Wright's re- 
 port for 191-1. 18,712 of these have been allotted lands of the tribe. 
 In the selection of these allotments and the preparation and issuance 
 of patents therefor, which has consumed a period of 16 years, the 
 appraisements as fixed for allotment purposes m the begmnmg were 
 used as a basis of calculation in determmmg the amount, i± any, 
 which might be due the citizen in money to make his share of the 
 tripal property equal $1,040. At no time during the long period of 
 years during which this work has been going on has it been sug- 
 gested that Iny other appraisement or value should influence in the 
 least the right of the citizen to take the land selected by him. 
 
 Senator Page. The appraised value has been on the surface of the 
 
 "^Mr MoTT. There was no mineral reser^^ation. It included every- 
 thing. Through all the period this immense ocean of oil has been 
 knoln to exist there has been no suggestion of a Poli°y ;>th«J *^J^ 
 that the allottee should have the right to select his 160 acres, and on 
 
318 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 iiis selection the Government issued him a patent in the absence of 
 any proper objection. 
 
 Great inequalities in value, as compared to the appraisement, have 
 existed, and this fact has been well known at all times by the officers 
 charged with the duty of carrying out this scheme of allotment and 
 to Congress. The appraisement has always been considered merely 
 as a means of classifying lands and placing thereon a unit of value 
 for purposes of distribution, and under such a plan it mattered not 
 whether the minimum and maximum were fixed at 50 cents or $50, 
 so long as the proportion remained the same and the values were 
 equalized by a money payment as was provided for. 
 
 Many allotments, in fact all allotments, were made of lands far 
 in excess in value of the appraisement, and many have been made 
 of proven oil lands, where the value was known to the department 
 officers to be so great as to place the allottee in -a position of inde- 
 pendent wealth. These are facts Avhich are admitted by the tribal 
 attorney and the department officials themselves, and, in fact, are 
 too well known to admit of dispute. 
 
 In the Glenn Pool alone from a single iO-acre tract practically 
 $1,000,000 worth of oil has been taken. Another 40-acre tract 
 brought in the probate court a bonus of $44,000. Numerous in- 
 stances of this character exist. This pool was not discovered until 
 in the fall of 1906. After that date and after the value of land in 
 that vicinity had been proven beyond all question, many allotments 
 were made to new-born citizens enrolled under the act of April 
 26, 1906. 
 
 In regard to the statement made before the House committee the 
 other daj', some gentleman, who represented the department, fol- 
 lowed me and made the statement that there had never been any 
 allotting of land made after oil was produced on the allotment. 
 My answer is that that was a physical impossibility, because no one 
 had a right to go on the land and drill for oil until it had been 
 allotted, but if the allotments adjoining it were producing oil, then 
 the lands between them were pi'oven territory, just as much so as 
 if the wells had been on the specific allotment itself. In answer to 
 that question, as I stated, there could not be any drilling on any 
 allotment until the land had been allotted. 
 
 If there is any controversy over the question, I want to say to the 
 committee here — and I want this to go into the record, because 
 1 know whereof I speak — that every allotment made in the Glenn 
 Pool, after oil 'was discovered, was made with the full knowledge of 
 its great oil value. I want no controversy before this committee 
 between me and anybody who may follow me as to that question, 
 because I am in a position to know, and I know what I am talking 
 about when I say it. The records of the department will bear out 
 my statement, and I can bring to the attention of the committee 
 numerous minors who were allotted after the full value of the Glenn 
 Pool was known, and no question about it was ever raised. 
 
 So rich has been the production from these allotments that the 
 estates of these minors have in many instances been the magnet which 
 has drawn to them the grafting element, who have in many instances 
 looted and plundered them. These estates have been the subject of 
 investigation and much activity on the part of the Government 
 itself and are now under the eye of the probate attorneys in the Creek 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 319 
 
 Nation. Although unrestricted and not subject to governmental 
 supervision, yet the value of their land is such that even now the 
 Government considers its duty to be to protect them and not permit 
 them to be despoiled. 
 
 The vigilance of the department in this regard is commendable 
 Why should it not apply with equal force to these allottees who are 
 to be deprived of substantial property rights by this resolution? 
 Four of the five are minors and as such, and as enrolled citizens of 
 the tribe, are entitled to the same consideration and the same degree 
 of protection which is being given to the other minors of the tribe. 
 
 ■\\Tiy, then, is it now proposed to take from these five a right 
 which, under the terms of the treaty, has been accorded to 18,712 
 others, many of whom have received without objection from any 
 source land equal in value to the land now sought by these allottees, 
 such value being known at the time of allotment ? 
 
 The answer to this question is found in the fact that the funds 
 of the tribe in the United States Treasury are not sufficient to meet 
 the treaty obligations calling for the equalization of allotments on 
 the basis of $1,040; in the fact that by this means the hope is in- 
 dulged that by the sale of these valuable tracts of land sufficient 
 funds may be realized to equalize allotments on that basis and thus 
 avoid a consideration of the question in Congress or the courts of the 
 obligation of the United States to make good the deficit. 
 
 The history and facts about the equalization of allotments in the 
 Creek Nation are too well known to this committee to require or call 
 for any extended comment thereon. It has been known for years 
 that the funds in the Treasuiy to the credit of the tiibe are not suffi- 
 cient to meet the terms of the treaty. For years Congress has failed 
 to meet the provisions of the treaty by appropriating money for that 
 purpose, as it has likewise failed to grant the tribe the right to be 
 heard in the Court of Claims. 
 
 The failure of Congress to act has doubtless been due to a feeling 
 and belief that no just obligation rests upon the United States to add 
 to the funds of the tribe for purposes of equalization. This attitude 
 may have full justification in fact. It was openly admitted before 
 the conferees on the Indian bill of last year by Judge Allen, the 
 present attorney for the tribe, that the right of the tribe to recover 
 from the Government any deficit for equalization purposes was, m 
 his opinion, a matter of serious doubt. 
 
 Admitting the position of Congress and the tribal attorney to be 
 founded on just grounds, as it must be assumed to be, and that a 
 serious doubt exists as to the obligation to the tribe m this regard, 
 then on what ground can the appropriation of these valuable tracts 
 of land for that purpose be made? . 
 
 If the tribe is not entitled to receive additional money for equaliza- 
 tion purposes, and Congress so believes, then should Congress take 
 from five members of the tribe, wards of he Government, who are 
 entitled to its protection, property to which they under the treaties 
 are legally and equitably entitled, to meet the demands of the tribe 
 on a claim which Congress refuses to recognized ^ 
 
 That, in effect, is what this resolution P^^«Pos^^.t,° 4°;^ ,^* ^l"^^^^^^^^^ 
 easy and expeditious way, assuming it to be constitutional of lessen 
 ing the liability of the United States m he matter of equalization ot 
 alfotments in the Creek Nation. It is, m effect, a proposal to Con- 
 
320 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 gress that if this be done, if you are willing to disregard the rights 
 of fire of your wards, if you will agree to take from them rights 
 which the treaties give them and which have been en]oyed by all 
 other members of the tribe, no further contention will be made about 
 the matter of equalization, and Congress will be relieved of the duty 
 of its further consideration. ^ n ■ ■ 
 
 There is now no bill pending in Congress regarding the defacit in 
 the matter of equalization. No effort is being made by the repre- 
 sentative of the tribe to secure action by Congress on this subject. 
 Xo suggestion has been made that any such effort will be made. 
 
 I am informed by the Creek attorney that he has been furnished 
 recently by the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes a list of 
 allotments, numbering about 50, which, because of fraud or duplica- 
 tion, were wrongfully allotted and should be canceled and recovered 
 for the tribe. The Creek attorney has announced through the press 
 that a number of these tracts lie in the Cushing oil field, in the vicin- 
 ity of the land selected by the five remaining unallotted members of 
 the tribe, and are very valuable for oil purposes. None of the prop- 
 erty which it is hoped to thus recover can be allotted to individual 
 members of the tribe, for the reason that all but these five are now 
 allotted. The recovery, t"herefore, would restore to the tribal estate 
 property of suiScient value to equalize allotments. 
 
 It is presumed that in proposing the institution of suits for the 
 recovery of these 50 tracts the tribal attorney is reasonably well sat- 
 isfied of his ability to recover them, and that at least as good grounds 
 exist for that belief as exist for the belief that the lands selected by 
 these five allottees will be recovered. Such being the case, there is 
 no strength in the contention that these five should be deprived of 
 their rights that the deficit in equalization money may be met. Con- 
 gress owes no duty to the Creek Nation under any circumstances 
 beyond providing for this deficit,- if it owes that. It being apparent 
 th;\t a recovery of sufficient property is anticipated to meet this de- 
 mand, it follows that if the matter is to be disposed of in that man- 
 ner no duty exists now to meet it by a method which unnecessarily 
 takes from these fixe members rights accorded to every other member 
 of the tribe. The tribal attorney informs me that he has recom- 
 mended to the department the institution of suits for the cancella- 
 tion of these 50 allotments. 
 
 The treaties between the United States and the Creek Nation gave 
 to every enrolled member thereof the right to 160 acres of the tribal 
 land and to a sufficient amount of the tribal money to equalize his 
 share of the tribal property on the basis of $1,040. Although a 
 matter of common knowledge for years, and long before allotments 
 were completed, that the tribal moneys were not sufficient to carry 
 out this provision in the treaties, at no time when such a plan might 
 have been adopted was it suggested or hinted that the rights of the 
 individual members of the tribe should be curtailed or abridged to 
 meet this deficiency. 
 
 Now, I am going to call to your attention something they had you 
 to do here last winter. If they are going to ask you to let this burden 
 bear equally on the tribe, last winter was the time to have done it 
 when they had you appropriate $2,000,000 out of the Federal Treas- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 321 
 
 liry, belonging to the Creek Nation, to equalize allotments on the 
 basis of $800 ; and to this I no\Y invite your most careful attention. 
 It was only late in the past summer this Congress made provision 
 for the payment of $2,000,000 of tribal funds to the members of the 
 tribe where the appraised value of their 160 acres of land did not 
 exceed $800. Since that time and up to this hour the Go^•ernment 
 has been busy paying out this money to thousands of members of 
 the tribe whose allotments for agricultural purposes alone were 
 worth $100 per acre, or $16,000 in the aggregate, at the time of the 
 selection or filing, and to hundreds of other members of the tribe 
 they have been and are paying this money, whose allotments for oil 
 or mineral purposes are worth in sums varying from $25,000 to more 
 that $1,000,000. There are instances of paying this money to mem- 
 bers that the appraised value of their allotments might be brought 
 up to $800 where, in fact, they had for months received in excess of 
 $800 a day as oil royalties on their allotment. 
 
 In good conscience and in equity. Avould it not have been better to 
 have said to you last summer, " This party down here has had a 
 quarter or half a million dollars in royalties. It was not known that 
 his allotment was that valuable when he got it, but it is a fact that 
 he has it, and is drawing thousands of dollars every month. Let us 
 not pay him any of this $800 to bring his allotment up to the stand- 
 ard value." There Avould have been some semblance of conscience 
 in that, rather than to take it all out of five, and four of them 
 minors. 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator Lane). In these allotments, was 
 any attorney fee involved ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. I think not — not at all. 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator Lane). Was this done by error? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. It was all done by the department and the tribe— the 
 representative of the tribe. 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator Lane). You think it was an 
 error ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. I do not say it was an error. I say it was a carrying 
 out of the treaty. It was proper and legal. But if they, were going 
 to get legislation to nullify this treaty so that this burden might tall 
 on the whole tribe, then was the time to do it and not wait until now, 
 
 and let it fall on five. n ^^ j 
 
 Mr. Mi;ritt. Did I undersand you to say that this action ot the de- 
 partment was proper and legal ? . . n.-. a-onnnnnn 
 Mr. Mott. Yes, sir : I mean about the paying out of the $2,000,000 
 It was legal, because it was in conformity with the treaty, and that 
 is what I am standing for now, and am insisting that same plan be 
 carried out to the end and not charged against five helpless members 
 
 ° Mn Memtt. If you had continued as tribal attorney, would you 
 
 have recommended this legislation that was Passed last year 
 
 Mr. Mott. Yes; but I would not have recommended t^is this year 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator ^ane) I have some doubts 
 
 whether you could have gotten that through if the Congress had 
 
 "^Mr'MoTT^It was a very proper thing to do under the obligations 
 of the Government. The"^ Indian Office did ^^e proper thing_It 
 was in conformity with the agreement. They were standing by the 
 
 82833— VOL 1—15 21 
 
322 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 agreement, and I, as attorney, would have stood by the agreement, 
 and am standing by the agreement now when I am insisting that 
 there be no discrimination made against these four, or these five. 
 
 If a provision of the treaty is to be ignored in that the rights of 
 certain individuals is to be curtailed to meet a deficit, would it not 
 ha^e been more in keeping with equity and good conscience to have 
 made it applicable to the great bulk of the tribe in the way of this 
 money payment now going on than to attempt to fix it on just five 
 members of the tribe who are in no way responsible for failure to 
 receive their allotments, and four of whom are children ? 
 
 If this proposed legislation is to be justified upon the theory that 
 these three allotments filed on is worth in excess of $1,040, then there 
 is no obligation on the part of the Government or anyone else to pay 
 to any member of the tribe a penny whose allotment in actual value 
 equaled $1,040. 
 
 It can not for a moment be contended at this time that such a 
 change can be made with any consideration or semblance of equity. 
 The scheme of distribution has been for all practical purposes com- 
 pleted. The division has been made. To take from five citizens of 
 the nation property to which they, under the treaties, are entitled 
 and give it to the remaining citizens so that the treaty obligations 
 as to them may be fulfilled is a proposition which does not appeal 
 to my sense of justice. It is entirely out of harmony with the rela- 
 tions existing between the Government and its wards, and if attempted 
 by an individual guardian toward his ward would be resisted and 
 rejected by any court in the land. 
 
 The United States owes to the Creek Nation a sum of money suffi- 
 cient to equalize allotments in the Creek Nation, or it does not. If 
 it owes that amount, the Government should pay it, and five citizens 
 of the Nation should not be required to contribute toward its pay- 
 ment. If it does not owe it, neither the Government nor a limited 
 number of the citizens should pay it. A more complete, fair, and 
 concise statement of the case can not be made. The whole issue here ' 
 is embodied in that statement. As the committee whose recom- 
 mendation will be accepted in this matter you are called upon to de- 
 termine that issue. Those five citizens of the Creek Nation whose 
 rights it is proposed to strike down are, to say the least, entitled as a 
 matter of right and justice to receive from the Government, the cus- 
 todian of their property, charged with the duty "of its proper admin- - 
 istration, that serious and thoughtful consideration which would 
 prevent and avoid a discrimination against them. 
 
 The lands which will be affected by this legislation, in so far as 
 they cover those tracts which have been filed on by these five allot- 
 tees, and their allotment history, briefly stated, is as follows : i 
 
 I want to give you the history of the litigation affecting these S 
 three allotments against which this whole legislation is directed. | 
 
 Senator Page. Will you please make it clear to us how it happens , 
 that there should be four or five very valuable parcels that have not j 
 been appropriated? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. The contention is— and I think it will be established— i, 
 that they were fraudulent allotments in that the' allottees died before i, 
 April 1, 1899, and therefore were not entitled to allotment. That is , 
 the contention in all three of these cases. ! 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 323 
 
 One is known as the Emma Coker tract, another is known as the 
 Barney Thlocco tract, and a third as the Thomas Atkins tract. The 
 remaining allottees have elected to select their allotments out of these 
 tracts. Yon have heard a great deal about the enormous value of 
 this property, and how much money you are giving to a member of 
 the tribe. I have heard it estimated from a million to $2,000,000 
 and $3,000,000 each, as though you were just dumping into the lap of 
 a single member of the tribe that amount of money. There is nothing 
 to it, gentlemen. The facts will not bear out any such statement. 
 
 First. Land allotted to Emma Coker, enrolled as a full-blood 
 Creek citizen, for which patents have issued; recovery of this land 
 is sought on the ground that Emma Coker is one and the same per- 
 son as Hettie Lena, a duly enrolled citizen, who has received another 
 allotment. 
 
 Hettie Lena as Hettie Lena received 160 acres of land. Then Het- 
 tie Lena under another name, as Emma Coker, received another 160 
 acres of land. She sold 120 acres of the land taken by her as Hettie 
 Lena, and when the discovery was made that a duplicate allotment 
 had been made to her and that she had taken 160 acres of land in 
 the name of Emma Coker she quitclaimed back to the Creek Nation 
 120 acres of that allotted to her as Emma Coker. That is one theory 
 of the Government, which, I thinli:, is the correct one probably. 
 
 Or on the theory that the real Emma Caker died prior to April 1, 
 1899, and was not entitled to allotment. Hettie Lena, as Emma 
 Coker, has quitclaimed 120 acres of this land back to the tribe. 
 
 The department has approved an oil and gas lease on this property 
 from Emma Coker to the McMann Oil Co., and said company is 
 now in possession of the same and extracting oil therefrom under 
 its lease. Before drilling in its first well, however, the representa- 
 tive of the company was assured by Judge Allen, tribal attorney, 
 that the company in so far as the Creek Nation's interest might 
 appear would be protected in its lease. On that assurance the prop- 
 erty has been developed and large sums of money expended. 
 
 if it was a duplicate allotment, and Emma Coker was living when 
 the patent was issued, then he has a legal lease that can not be in- 
 terfered with, because the deed was made to a person actually in ex- 
 istence. So that in any event there is only one-eighth royalty at 
 issue in this allotment unless Emma Coker did die prior to April 
 1. 1899, and then in that event it is a void allotment. Under all the 
 decisions laid down, if it is a void allotment, then the title never did 
 go out of the Creek Nation, and was at all times public domam, and 
 subject to filing when Lula Walcott filed on it. On the other hand, 
 if it was a duplicate allotment with the deed issued to a party then 
 in existence, the lease held by McMann, which has been approved by 
 the Secretary of the Interior, is a valid lease and nobody can disturb 
 it. Instead of giving $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 in the Emma Coker 
 case, airthat Lula Walcott is fighting for is the one-eighth royalty, 
 and that is all she will ever get. i • .^ ^ • 
 
 There is a principle of law, which might not app y m the aflairs 
 of the Five Civilized Tribes, that acceptance and delivery of patent 
 is necessary. Congress attempted to cure this under the act of 1906 
 in providing that the recording of the deed vested the title but 
 our position would be that it was not retroactive, even it it was^ 
 
324 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 essential hero— the deed not having been delivered no title ever 
 passed. 
 
 Second. Land allotted to Barney Thlocco arbitrarily by the Dawes 
 Commission, patents for which have been prepared but remain in 
 the hands of the commission undelivered. Suit is now pending to 
 recover this land for the tribe on the ground that Barney Thlocco 
 died prior to April 1, 1899, and was not entitled to allotment. A 
 large number of heirs are claiming this allotment and the property 
 is now being operated by the Black Panther Oil Co., under a lease 
 from the heirs and by agreement between the receiver for the prop- 
 erty and the Government on behalf of the Creek Nation. Large 
 sums of money have been expended for development of this property 
 and the Government's suit is being vigorously contested by the va- 
 rious defendants claiming as heirs of Barney Thlocco. David Bow- 
 legs and Jack Elton Wilson have both filed on this land in the order 
 named and are prosecuting their claims in the department and the 
 courts. 
 
 I am going to shoAv you before we get through, if we have the 
 time, that the lease under which they are operating the Thlocco tract 
 to-day, that if the Creek Nation gets it it will not only not get a 
 dollar, but the chances are it will be in debt to the lessee, the Black 
 Panther Oil Co., and it is going to be the case if we get it, unless 
 this lease is set aside by tlje court, and I hope by reason of the many 
 facts which have been brought to the surface the department will 
 direct the district attorney to ask that it be set aside, although it 
 was approved on recommendation of the district attorney. 
 
 Senator Page. You are making this statement to show that these 
 allottees are not getting as rich as has been represented? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Why, certainly. 
 
 Third. Land allotted to Thomas Atkins, for which patents have 
 issued and for the recovery of which suit has been authorized to be 
 instituted on account of the death of this allottee prior to April 1, 
 1899, or that there never was in fact any such person. This prop- 
 erty is in the possession of the Gem Oil Co., under a lease from per- 
 sons claiming to be heirs of this supposed allottee. Largo sums of 
 money have been expended for its development. 
 
 Quentin Garrett and Millard Sanders have made application for 
 and filed on this land, and are now prosecuting their claims in the 
 department and the courts. 
 
 Under the terms of the lease on the Emma Coker tract, the oper- 
 ating company is obligated to pay a royalty of one-eighth of the 
 production therefrom. Under the agreement with the operating 
 company on the Barney Thlocco tract a royalty of one-fourth is 
 being reserved for the successful claimant. The Government and 
 the Greek Nation are committed to this agreement. The Gem Oil Co. 
 is operating the Atkins tract on the basis of one-eighth to the lessors. 
 
 It will therefore be seen that if the assurances of protection which 
 have been made to the McMann Oil Co. as to the Coker tract are 
 carried out only one-eighth of the property would go to the tribe; 
 that if the Creek Nation and the Government respect the rights of 
 the Black Panther Co. as to the Thlocco tract and abide by the 
 agreement as already entered into but one-fourth of that property 
 will go to the tribe in the event of recovery ; and that as to the Atkins 
 ♦tract, the present operators are in possession under a lease which in 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 325 
 
 any event they will contend is valid as to them on the ground of be- 
 ing innocent pui-chasers for value, which contention, if it prevails, 
 will give to the Creek Nation but one-eighth of the property in thJ 
 event of recovery. So that, as to two tracts in controversy, seven- 
 eighths may be conceded to have already passed beyond the reach 
 or control of the Government, and as to the other tract, three-fourths 
 IS in a similar condition. 
 
 Now, I want to state to you briefly here, and I ask your careful 
 attention to this particular matter. 
 
 The Black Panther Oil Co., thijough the district attorney went into 
 court and secured the approval of a lease executed by one of the 
 minor heirs. The court appointed a receiver and required one-fourth 
 of the production as royalties be paid into the hands of the receiver, 
 three-fourths of it to go to the Black Panther Oil Co. That lease 
 would have been a better lease if it had provided for a fiftieth gross 
 royalty rather than a one-fourth royalty on the conditions that are 
 provided. Now, why do I say that? Because it provided that when 
 the lease was finally terminated the successful litigant should pay 
 for all permanent improvements put on the lease by said Black 
 Panther Oil Co. 
 
 Mr. ]Meeitt. Will you make it clear to the committee that that 
 lease was not approved by the department ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. I am going to do that. It was claimed before the Indian 
 committee that it was, and I made up my mind to assert that it never 
 was submitted to this department. There will not be any intimation 
 by me against the department because I yield to no man in my re- 
 spect and admiraticm of the Secretary and the commissioner. But 
 the proposition was submitted to the department and the lease was 
 on a quarter-gross basis, without any provision about it, but later 
 a provision was put into that lease and recommended to the court 
 for its approval to the end that the successful litigant phould pay for 
 all permanent impro^•ements put (in that property. 
 
 Now, read this record as taken before the House committee, and 
 read the evidence of the district attorney, Mr. Linebaugh, and you 
 will find that he told the committee the other day that this litigation 
 would take from two to five years to settle who is the owner of the 
 property. It M'as stated before that committee that at the end of 
 two years the lease would not be worth operating. 
 
 Now, what follows? The successful litigant will pay back to this 
 Black Panther Co. every dollar's cost of the permanent improA ements 
 put on that property. What are the permanent improvements ? The 
 permanent improvements are the casing that goes into the well, the 
 derricks, etc., and the evidence before the House committee shovvs that 
 each well cost $6,000 in permanent improvements, and 40 wells on 160 
 acres will be required to protect the property from drainage, which 
 makes a total cost of $240,000 alone, without any cost for tankage. 
 Now, where is this quarter royalty when that is done, what has the 
 Creek Nation got when that is done, and where is Wilson and Bow- 
 legs when that is done, if it requires three years to settle this litiga- 
 tion? . „ ^ 
 
 These men are foolish in taking leases from these tentative allot- 
 tees and fighting for them unless the Government goes into court and 
 advises the court of the condition and succeeds m having the court 
 
326 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 pet that lease aside and requiring that it be operated under a one- 
 fourth gross royalty or that all the money shall go into the hands of the 
 receiver, except such funds as are absolutely necessary for its develop- 
 ment ; unless that is done I want it knoAvn I said in this committee 
 the Creek Nation nor none of these little minor children would get 
 a dollar. . 
 
 Senator Groi^na. Who is responsible for making this lease; You 
 say it was not submitted. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. This lease A\'as submitted to the district attorney — and 
 his office alone is responsible for its approval by the court. 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator Lane). Did you say that the 
 court fixed these conditions? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. The court approved action of district attorney. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. They approved the lease, did they not? 
 
 Mr. JSIoTT. Yes, sir; the court approved it, but I am satisfied the 
 court had no idea of the effect of it. The court simply relied on the 
 district attorney, as it had a right to do. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. How long ago was it made? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Nearly a year — in February, I think. 
 
 Senator Page. Of last year? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes, sir. Now, Mr. Chairman, I am going to pass over 
 much of this and conclude on the question of vested rights. I do 
 not propose to take up your time, as Mr. Thraves desires to address 
 the committee, and if I should take the time to cite authorities it 
 would probably take me an hour and a half longer — but I am going 
 to ask your indulgence that I be permitted to cite two or three cases 
 bearing directly on the question of the vested rights of these parties. 
 I have cited numerous cases and authorities here which are printed 
 in the House record. 
 
 Directly in point is the case of Thomason v. Rhoades (206 Fed.. 
 895), where it is held, first, that the selection and designation of an 
 allotment by a member of the tribe entitled thereto is all that the law 
 requires to fix the interest of the allottee in the land selected. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is in the printed hearing, is it not ? 
 
 Mr. Mott. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Do you understand that anybody is contesting that 
 principle — the principle laid down in that case? 
 
 Mr. Mott. Oh, yes, sir ; they contest it. I heard it contested before 
 the Indian committee. I can not say upon what theory it is done. 
 The effect of the decision is that after selection, and before certificate 
 issued, the allottee may convey the allotment and confer title on 
 the purchaser. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Of course, that is all based on the subproposition 
 that is subject to allotment and that the party is entitled to an allot- 
 ment? 
 
 Mr. Mott. Certainly. 
 
 Senator Page. And you say, whether the department does or does 
 not approve it, it is just as valid and binding as though they did 
 approve it? 
 
 Mr. Mott. Yes. sir. It is valid because the allottee has done all 
 he can do. He has surrendered his communal interest in order to 
 acquire a vested right in a specific tract, and all that he can do is to 
 select. The issuance of the certificate or deed must be the action 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 327 
 
 of the department, nothing more than evidences of the title. This 
 principle can not be controverted. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Senator Page, I think it would be clearer to the 
 committee if attention is called to the fact that there is a statute 
 which allows a man entitled to an allotment to bring suit and o-et a 
 decree, which is equivalent to a decree in equity of specific 'per- 
 formance. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I understood Mr. Meritt to say that the department 
 never had and never would consent. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. That is what he said. 
 
 Senator Page. And I was trying to get the alignment clear be- 
 , tween yourself and the department. 
 
 Mr. _MoTT_. Yes, sir. They are maintaining that these allotments, 
 being in litigation, are not subject to allotment, and they want to 
 have this legislation enacted preventing anybody from filing before 
 the litigation is terminated. Now, all the decisions hold that a pat- 
 ent issued to any member of the tribe who died prior to April 1, 1899, 
 it was a void patent — not voidable but absolutely void, and the legal 
 title never went out of the Creek Nation and was therefore public 
 domain. Well, if title never had gone out of the Creek Nation, it 
 was public domain subject to filing, and on that filing their rights 
 attached, and it became a vested right and Congress can not deprive 
 them of it. 
 
 I desire to read into this record the case of Thomas v. Ehodes. It 
 is a Federal case. It says : 
 
 After selection and before certificate or patent Issues tlie allottee may convey 
 the allotment and may confer title on the purchaser on a sale based on a" 
 selection, as a valid title, an equitable right that he can not be deprived of; and, 
 third, that by relation the patent when it subsequently issues becomes effective 
 from the date of selection. 
 
 Senator Page. Then your assumption is that the department has 
 no possible power over this matter? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Absolutely none. It can be forced in a court of final 
 jurisdiction to grant to these people. If those allotments are can- 
 celed upon the theory that the allottees died before April 1, 1899, 
 and that is judicially determined, then it is already determined that 
 it was tribal property, public domain, and subject to allotment, and 
 when that status is fixed the department is powerless and the courts 
 will compel them to issue these patents. 
 
 Senator Page. As a matter of fact, these parties that you represent 
 are now fighting to show that there is, at least in part, tribal prop- 
 erty upon which they had a right to file ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes, sir. 
 
 I wish to gall to your attention the Sizemore case, not yet reported. 
 I had a copy of it 'and gave it to the stenographer who reported the 
 House committee proceedings. However, I am going to state the 
 case to you. , . , 
 
 It is the case upon which they rely, and it is the case upon wliich 
 I rely as to the soundness of my proposition that this legislation is 
 unconstitutional, and the effect of it but entails upon these four or five 
 people the additional burden of testing the constitutionality of 
 such an act. 
 
328 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Clapb. I am frank to say for one that in view of what I 
 regard as these mineral allotments being in violation of the spirit 
 of the Creek treaty, I would be disposed to even put one to the ex- 
 pense of litigation before giving them such allotments as they are 
 seeking, and some such as have been allotted, because I believe it is a 
 violation of the spirit and terms of the Creek treaty. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Well, if it would not be, they would not be asking legis- 
 lation to nullify the treaty. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not think this legislation nullifies the treaty. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. You do not? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Do you think if this legislation is not passed, then, 
 that those people can be denied those allotments if they are finally 
 canceled ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not think any legislation that is passed to-day 
 can affect any right that actually exists. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. That is right, where a vested right had attached; yes, 
 sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I hope it may not be taken out of the time of Mr. 
 Mott right here if I ask that this legislation be read to us in order 
 that I may see how the argument attaches to the proviso. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not think it ought to be taken out of his time. 
 I think he may well sit here and listen to the discussion of this 
 question. 
 
 Senator Page. I want to hear the proviso, if I may. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. I will conclude in 10 minutes at most. I would like to 
 give an interpretation of the Sizemore case before I take my seat. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. May I say, Mr. Chairman, that the amendment pro- 
 posed by Senator Owen to the Indian appropriation bill reads as 
 follows : 
 
 That the uncallotted land or public domain of the Creek Nation or Tribe of 
 Indians, including any land, the title to which has been, or may be recovered 
 for the Creek Nation, in any pending or other suit, or otherwise, be and the 
 ^^^^^J-sJ^eT^e:hy, withheld from allotment to members of said nation' or tribe, 
 and that the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized in his 
 discretion to cause such land to be sold, or leased, for the benefit of the Creek 
 ^1\IT r *" °I Indians, under such rules and regulations as he mav pre- 
 
 scribe the proceeds of such sale, or lease, to be paid into the Treasury bf the 
 United States to the credit of said Creek Nation. 
 
 . Senator Page. The point that occurs to me is this: The language 
 IS, mcludmg and land, the title to which has been, or may be, re- 
 covered tor the Creek Nation, in any pending or other suit, or other- 
 Wise, etc. Thatisthecruxof the whole matter, is it not? 
 Mr. Mott. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We also contend that this land at this time is unal- 
 lotted. 
 
 Mr. Mott. So do we. There can be no allotting of land where 
 the party died before April 1, 1899. 
 
 The Acting Chaieman. You claim that it has never been allotted 
 to anyone? 
 
 Mr. MsEiTT. We claim that this property is tribal property of the 
 l^reek JNation and therefore is subject to such disposition as Congress 
 may deem proper to make of it. 
 
 The Acting Chaieman. What supervision have you over it at this 
 time— just as a general guardian of the Creek Nation? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 329 
 
 Mr. Memtt. The Secretary of the Interior has general super- 
 vision over the property of the Creek Nation. 
 The Acting Chairman. Is there somebody there pumping oil out 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There is an oil lease. Mr. Mott can tell you about 
 that. 
 
 The AcTixG Chairman. Is there some one on there getting oil 
 from it at this time? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes, sir ; on all three allotments. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. You are the guardian of the Creek Nation 
 and their friends; can you not find out who is doing that and o-et 
 them off ? ^ 
 
 Mr. MoTT. We are trying to do that. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Can you not eject them by force? 
 
 Senator Clapp. You will have to ask the court about that. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. I mean ask him about it, and then ask 
 the court about it afterwards. 
 
 Senator Cla^p. That is a very good plan. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. It is"a very excellent plan. 
 
 Mr. Mott. I would like to present the Sizemore case and my in- 
 terpretation of it, because they are laying some stress upon it. I 
 have read the case twice. I read it a day or two after it was handed 
 down. I have not seen it since, but have a very clear and distinct 
 recollection of the principles involved. 
 
 This is, as I say, a case to determine the heirship to an allotment 
 belonging to a member of the Creek Tribe of Indians. He was liv- 
 ing on the 1st day of April, 1899. He died in 1901 without having 
 selected an allotment or an allotment not having been made to him. 
 At the time he died the Creek law of descent was in force in the 
 Creek Nation. On May 27, 1902, Congress passed an act repealing 
 the provision of the original agreement which made provision for 
 the Creek law of descent. As I have said, on May 27 Congress 
 passed an act repealing that provision of the Creek agreement and 
 substituting therefor the Arkansas law of descent as provided in 
 chapter 49 of Manfield's Digest. 
 
 The controversy between those parties was this, that the heirs take 
 as of the date of his death, so far as the maternal heirs were con- 
 cerned. The paternal heirs contended that they take as of the date 
 of the selection. The court held that at the time the allottee died 
 there had been no selection of his allotment, and therefore there 
 was nothing to descend, there was nothing to which rights could 
 attach, and therefore the Creek law of descent could not prevail, but 
 that at the time of the selection when the Creek law had been re- 
 pealed, and not until selection did his right attach; that the estate 
 must be cast as of the date of the selection and allotment, because 
 nothing could attach until the selection and allotment, and there- 
 fore the Arkansas law of descent must prevail. , , . , ■, 
 
 Now, I admit if these tentative allottees had not selected this land, 
 then this legislation would be effective. Because the court m this 
 decision holds that an agreement is not a contract between one ot 
 these tribes and the Government ; that it is simply an act of Congress, 
 but that when a party has acquired vested rights under any former act, 
 no act that can be passed will disturb that right, ]ust as you. Senator 
 Clapp, stated a moment ago, probably much clearer and more 
 
330 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 forcibly thau I could. My position is that by this selection these 
 rights have attached, and that under the Sizemore case— the very 
 one upon which thev rely— no legislation can, under Article V of the 
 Constitution, deprive them of their rights, because you can not take 
 from a man property without due process of law. 
 
 Senator Clapp. They practically said that in the Lone Wolf case 
 years ago, in different language. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes, sir. 
 
 I desire to call to the attention of the committee especially this 
 case, because I know they are relying on this Sizemore case, and that 
 is what I am relying upon, and I am willing to have the committee 
 interpret the case in its own way. 
 
 I desire to express my appreciation to you, Mr. Chairman, and 
 you gentlemen of the committee, for hearing me patiently. I have 
 probably talked with a little more zeal and earnestness than the 
 surroundings call for, but I feel about this matter just as I have 
 talked. I feel satisfied that my position in this matter is correct, 
 equitable, and morally right. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I want to say this, Mr. Mott, that I do not believe 
 the Creek treaty ever contemplated that one Creek should get an 
 allotment worth $125,000 under an agreement that they should be 
 equalized at $1,040, and while 
 
 Mr. Mott. I do not think so myself. 
 
 Senator Clapp. And while it is not ordinarily exact justice to say 
 that a man ought to go to court, I, for one, am disposed to let them 
 try it out in court. 
 
 Mr. Mott. Yes, sir ; under the existing law._ 
 
 Senator Clapp. Well, this law does not cliange an existing law 
 except that it takes away land that is not allotted. If these lands 
 are not in fact allotted, and if these rights do not attach, this takes 
 it away from them. 
 
 Mr. Mott. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. It would delay it so long that you think 
 the propeity would lose all value? 
 
 Mr. Mott. Oh, yes. These five have been fighting for years try- 
 ing to establish themselves on allotments the Government and the 
 tribe ga^e them. It is proposed to burden them with this legisla- 
 tion and with four more years of litigation. 
 
 STATEMENT OF W. V. THRAVES, ATTORNEY AT LAW, TUISA, 
 
 OKLA. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Whom do you represent? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. I represent the citizens who will be affected by this 
 legislation perhaps, namely, Lula Butler, Millard Saunders, and 
 Jack Elton Wilson and myself as lessees and grantee under them. 
 
 At this time, Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the committee, of 
 course, there is very little for me to say, for, in my judgment, no 
 moie complete and forceful argument or presentation of this matter 
 can be made than the one made by my colleague, Mr. Mott. 
 
 1 might go on and anticipate what the gentlemen representing 
 the department are going to say, but since you will allow me the 
 opportunity of replying I shall simply make a few remarks on some 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 331 
 
 of the matters that Mr. Mott spoke upon this morning, and on some 
 of the matters which one or two of the Senators questioned him 
 One was, and I think it was the question of Senator Clapp, whether 
 or not there was not an act permitting an Indian to sue for the 
 possession of his allotment. It is a fact that the Five Civilized 
 Tribes are an exception to this, and that the treaty entered into and 
 ratifaed by the Creeks m 1901 provides for the giving up of their 
 communal rights m the lands of the Creek Nation as a whole, and 
 that they should have the right to select a specific allotment, and 
 that the Government should put them in undisputed and uninter- 
 rupted possession of the same free of all cost to them, removing 
 rherefrom all objectionable parties. 
 
 I think that answers the question asked by Senator Clapp. How- 
 ever, in ISIr. Mott's discussion this morning, he failed to read some 
 very important decisions bearing upon this point, seveial of which 
 related to public lands. 
 
 Now, it can be readily seen and easily understood that the Indian 
 lands, as owned by the Creek Nation, do not bear the same relation 
 to the public at large as do the public lands. For instance, Congress 
 would have a right to pass any act withdrawing from entry or 
 otherwise lands known as public lands for the reason that all of 
 the people of the entire Government, or the Government itself, owns 
 and controls absolutely those lands. But it presents quite a different 
 condition when it comes to Congress undertaking to divest a few 
 citizens of rights that have attached by virtue of a previous act 
 and treat}^ made between any paiticular tribe and the Government 
 itself. 
 
 Now, we claim, and are supported hj a number of decisions of 
 State courts, the Federal courts, and the United States courts, that 
 from the very moment that the Indian selects his allotment, at that 
 very moment does this become his individual property, and the act 
 of selection takes it out of the public domain, provided first tliat 
 this citizen supplies two conditions precedent. The law provides, in 
 order for an allottee to be entitled to allotment, he must fii-st be a 
 citizen ui^on the rolls of the Creek Nation. That is one condition 
 precedent. The next is that he must be alive on the first day of 
 April, 1899. You can readily see that if he does not comply with 
 these conditions no title can possibly pass from the nation. It 
 matters not how, or what attempt the officer may make to convey 
 this land, under the old and well established doctrine that the title 
 to real estate must rest somewhere. In other Avords, the title can not 
 leave here, the nation, for instance, until there is a party over there 
 in which it can vest. Therefore it can be seen that these lands were 
 subject to allotment and these parties having done all that they can 
 do to bring themselves within the provisions provided by the acts 
 pursuant to the treaty, they can do no more and their rights have 
 
 Pursuant to that I will read some decisions which will perhaps be 
 interesting to the committee. 
 
 Immediately upon enrollment they were communal owners ot the 
 unallotted land of the tribes, and somewhere m the public domain 
 they were entitled to receive their distributive share ot that pubfic 
 
332 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 land in severalty. This right was again confirmed by Congress in 
 section 7 of the act of May 27, 1908, as follows: 
 
 Tb;it no contest shall be instituted after GO days from the date of the selec- 
 tion of any allotment hereafter made, nor after 90 days from the approval of 
 this act in cape of selection made prior thereto by or for any allottee of the 
 Five Civilized Tribes, and early thereafter as practicable deed or patent shall 
 issue therefor. 
 
 He had no power, of course, to force the Secretary to issue the 
 patent. He can apply for it and take possession of it, select it, and 
 then, of course, his power is at an end, except by, perhaps, man- 
 damus. 
 
 In opposition to this proposed legislation, we submit that the 
 enrollment fixed and determined the right of the citizen in and to 
 the individual lands of the tribe and gave to him the right to select 
 and receive therefrom a particular tract upon relinquishment of his 
 interest in the whole ; that this is a vested right which can not be 
 disturbed by legislation, and that any action by Congress in that 
 behalf is beyond the scope of its powers and unconstitutional. 
 
 Now, just here Senator Clapp suggested that he for one might be 
 willing to allow the legislation to go through and let the citizen pro- 
 ceed to test it in order to test its constitutionality. Senator, you no 
 doubt said that thou.ghtlessly, for this reason: If the Senator real- 
 izes, or has reason to believe that this legislation is unconstitutional, 
 he, perhaps, unfortunately for him, has the first guess at it, and it 
 would not be in keeping with any one of his duties to put upon these 
 people the expense and responsibility of going to the courts to 
 declare this unconstitutional when he himself at this time has in his 
 power the right to so act within the law and within the Constitution 
 as to make it possible for them not to bear this expense and injustice. 
 
 Senator Clapp. No ; what I said was this — and it is what I would 
 like to hear you and Mr. Mott discuss personally — I do not know how 
 the other members of the committee feel about it : Here is an attempt 
 to get $125,000 under an agreement made with the Indians that 
 they clearly understood that they would get, and establish the equa- 
 tion of $1,040 in each allotment. Now, it develops that in some of 
 those allotments there is wealth. Some of them are seeking to estab- 
 lish the right to $125,000 worth of wealth. As between their right 
 to that and the right of the tribe to the difference between $1,040 and 
 $125,000, I would be constrained to let the citizen who is thus seek- 
 ing something so far in advance of what the other members have 
 got take the burden, if there is any question at all about the consti- 
 tutionality of the law. If it was an individual down there just seek- 
 ing his $1,040 allotment, then it would be my duty as a Senator to 
 rather strain a point to relieve him from taking upon himself the 
 burden of litigation to secure that allotment. But when he is seek- 
 ing to get $125,000 as against the great average of them — only 
 $1,040 — I can not help but feel that perhaps he ought to take the 
 burden as to that. 
 
 Mr. Thkaves. That is answered in this way. Senator, that the In- 
 dians themselves had this agreement with the Government, that 
 they each should have an allotment, as Mr. Mott explained so fully 
 to us this morning, of the value of $1,040, and that it should contain 
 160 acres. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
IPJDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 333 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Now, all the other Indians have gone in and taken 
 their allotments under this theory. Thousands of them have been 
 fortunate enough to strike oil under those allotments. A large num- 
 ber of them were allotted after oil was discovered on those valuable 
 properties, and a large number of them have been allotted on land 
 more valuable — far more valuable — than this Avas when these people 
 selected it, for, as a matter of fact, there was no oil on this property 
 when they selected it. There Avas only oil on one side of it, and the 
 possibility or the probability of oil being there Avas not so very 
 great. xVt that time the comlnissioner of Indian affairs at Muskogee, 
 who had the supervision of this matter — Commissioner Wright — re- 
 ported the land as worth $50 to $75 per acre, not as much as the land 
 which had already been allotted to those allottees, and which they 
 had lost in the courts. You understand. Senator, that those aUot- 
 tees had been allotted land but had lost it in a controversy, and in a 
 controversy in which they had been forced to expend large sums of 
 money in in order to keep up the controversy, and in the agreement the 
 whole spirit of the dealings of the Government with the Indian was 
 to put him into vmdisputed possession, removing all persons therefrom 
 objectionable to him. Notwithstanding that fact, these parties pro- 
 pose to go on. You will also understand another thing, that while 
 thousands of these people have been fortunate enough to get these 
 allotments, there may be thousands of others who may be fortunate 
 enough later to get oil on their allotments. Nothing like all of the 
 land belonging to the allottees of the Creek Nation has been tested 
 for oil, and it would not surprise me — in fact I would be very much 
 disappointed if thousands of other allotees later on did not have land 
 equal in value from an oil standpoint to this land which is in con- 
 troversy. 
 
 Senator Clapp. At this point let me ask you — and I suppose you 
 are well posted on the matter — how many of these allottees up to this 
 time is it known have secured unusually valuable allotments on ac- 
 count of the discovery of oil on their lands? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. I could not answer that except by saying that there 
 are thousands. Perhaps ]Mr. Mott could give you the exact figures. 
 
 Mr. Mott. It has been estimated that there have been $200,000,000 
 worth of oil taken from allotments belonging to the Creek Tribe of 
 Indians up to the present time. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. And as has been stated, it will be double that, part 
 of which will be distributed among other allottees. 
 
 The Acting Chaieman. You do not mean to say that the Indians 
 have gotten $200,000,000? ^ ^ ^ ,^ ^^ , 
 
 Mr Mott. I mean all of the allotments. Judge Allen stated 
 before the House committee that it amounted to $500,000,000. It is 
 not over $200,000,000 up to the present time. . ^. , a 
 
 The Acting Chairman. The Indians do not get all of that, do 
 
 Mr. Mott. They have sold a lot of it. The Indians got it all in the 
 
 ^Mr'^TlEAVEs. They got it, less what belonged to the man who 
 undertook the operation. When a man goes there to operate the 
 property the first thing he has to do is to make up his mind to pay, 
 in addition to what he pays for it, $12,000 to drill the first well; and, 
 
334 • INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 of course, the department wisely decided that an eighth royalty was 
 
 a .fair royalty. , . 
 
 Senator Clapp. Wliile it is not, perhaps, germane, nevertheless, 
 for o-eneral information, let me ask you this: Where a man goes 
 down there to sink wells on the land of white men who are not, 
 perhaps, able to sink the well, what kind of an arrangement do they 
 
 Mr. Theaves. It is just exactly like this— just a one-eighth royalty 
 and whatever bonup he has to pay. li the land is clear, he pays a 
 bonus. I will come to that later in my statement as to what con- 
 tracts I hold, and will leave it to you to judge whether they are not 
 only fair and just and equitable, but whether or not they are ade- 
 quate, or were adequate at the time. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Then, if I understand you, one-eighth is the aver- 
 age rate that the developer agrees to pay if he discovers oil ? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. It is the customary royalty, yes, sir ; in case he dis- 
 covers it. If oil is discovered upon the land, or discovered, as Mr. 
 Mott described this moi'ning, between the wells and the improved 
 territory, then in some cases they might pay a larger royalty instead 
 of paying the bonus. Some fellows would rather take the risk of 
 paying $12,000 than $175 an acre cash and then put a well down 
 on a small royalty. 
 
 In the consideration of the second proposition that the filing by 
 an allottee on a particular tract creates in him a vested right to re- 
 ceive such tract in allotment, and is in the nature of an acceptance 
 of the offer in the treaty to exchange and give to him a particular 
 tract in consideration of his relinquishment of his interest in the 
 other lands of the tribe, the construction placed upon the law by 
 the Department of the Interior, the officer charged with the duty 
 of carrying out these agreements is entitled to great weight. 
 
 In a decision in a contest case affecting Creek lands, rendered 
 February IS, 1904, the Secretary of the Interior, in the case of Major 
 r. Thompson (Annual Report of Dawes Commission, 1904) said: 
 
 The individnnl entryman bas no interest in the mass of public lands and 
 has nothing therein to release. 
 
 I am trying to show you, Senator, the difference between this 
 tribal and public land. 
 
 At or before the time of the final entry he renders the full consideration for 
 the land he seeks to acquire, and his assent to the passing of the legal title to 
 him is complete at the instant of the final entry. The patent, when issued, 
 relates to that date, though issued long afterwards. The issue and record 
 of the patent vest legal title, whether it is delivered or not. But the nature of 
 Indian titles and effect given by the statutes to the delivery and acceptance of 
 the tribal deed make the doctrine of that case (tJ. S. v. Schurtz, 102 U. S., 378) 
 clearly inapplicable to allotment deeds. 
 
 Here the relinquishment by the allottee of his communal interest 
 in the tribal lands is recognized as being the consideration which 
 supports the transaction which vests title to a particulai' tract in the 
 allottee. 
 
 You see the consideration there of the difference in the public land 
 and that of a member of the tribe. 
 
 It has been decided that " the jurisdiction of the Dawes Com- 
 mission and of the Secretary, and the effect of their action in the allot- 
 ment of Indian lands are the same in effect as the jurisdiction and 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 335 
 
 effect of the action of the Land Department of the United States in 
 the disposition of the public lands within its control." (Wallace v. 
 Adams, 143 Fed., T16; Garrett v. Walcott, 25 Okla., 574.) 
 
 Such bein^ the case it is important to note the conclusion reached 
 by the courts as to the eifect of an application for public land by an 
 entryman. 
 
 The United States Supreme Court has held that a qualified home- 
 steader who made application for a homestead in the manner pre- 
 scribed by law_ and his application and the fees tendered by him were 
 rejected, the fact that he failed to appeal from the decision of the 
 local land office did not prejudice his rights, but that his equitable 
 right to the land was nevertheless initiated and that his title thereto 
 was good in an action of ejectment against a railroad company to 
 whom the land was subsequently patented. (Ard r Brandon, 156 
 U. S., 537; Weeks r. Bridgman, i59 U. S., 541.) 
 
 Allien an entry has been made upon public land subject to entry, 
 and the purchase money paid, the United States then holds the legal 
 title for the benefit of the purchaser and is bound, on proper applica- 
 tion, to issue patent to him therefor. If the land is afterwards con- 
 veyed to another who has notice, the latter takes the land subject to 
 the equitable claim of the first entryman, who can compel its trans- 
 fer to him. (Cornelius r. Kessel, 128 U. S., 456; Orchard v. Alex- 
 ander, 156 U. S., 372; Ho^'-t r. Weyerhauser, 161 Fed., 329; 219 U. S., 
 380.) 
 
 A party who has complied with all the terms and conditions which 
 entitle him to a patent for a tract of particulnr public land acquires 
 vested interest therein and is to be regarded as the equitable owner 
 thereof. (Wirth v. Branson, 98 U. S., 118 ; Benson Mining Co. v. 
 Alta Mining Co., 145 U. S., 428.) 
 
 This principle applies with equal force to the rights of an allottee 
 of tribal land. (Sorrell v. Jones, 26 Okla., 569; Garrett v. Walcott, 
 25 Okla., 574; Harnage v. Martin, 136 Pac, 154; Herman v. Rolfe, 
 145 NW., 601 (N. Dak.) ; Wallace r. Adams, 143 Fed., 716.) 
 
 Senator Page. May I interrupt you there? Is there any question 
 anywhere as to this law or these decisions? Does anybody claim on 
 the other side that the selection of the land does not vest a title m the 
 Indian selecting it ? 
 
 Mr. Thraatiis. I never .heard it raised until now. 
 
 Senator Page. It is now raised in this case? 
 
 Mr. THEAVE8. I think it is raised by Mr. Reed. I have not heard 
 Mr. Meritt with regard to that. ,, -r. ,q -.tt x i. 
 
 Senator Page. That is the case, is.it, Mr. Reed? We want to 
 focus our minds on these decisions because you propose to claim that 
 those decisions are not good law, as I understand? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes, sir. „ , i i. j 
 
 Mr Theaves. Under the doctrine of these cases a homesteader, 
 preemptor, or allottee who has taken the steps required by law to 
 obtain a preference right upon a particular tract of land and who 
 has done alii required of him, thereby becomes the equitable owner 
 
 °*Thf fSoing decisions which have been cited establish clearly 
 the interesf which attaches "pon the proper selection by an allo^^^^^^ 
 of the lan^ desired by him as his allotment. . What is the proper 
 selection, sufficient within itself, to cause this right to attach, should 
 
336 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 be next considered, with a view to determining whether or not the 
 citizens of the Creek Nation who have selected lands whose rights 
 are attacked by this resolution have brought themselveswithm the 
 rule and are possessed of a vested right by reason of their selection. 
 
 In the case of Olive Land and Development Co. v. Olmstead 
 (103 Fed., 568), it was held by the court that the selection and appli- 
 cation for the land vested in the applicant the equitable title thereto, 
 and that " a party who has complied with all the terms and condi- 
 tions which entitle him to a patent for a particular tract of land 
 acquires a vested interest therein and is to be regarded as the equi- 
 table owner thereof * * * "• 
 
 More directly in point is the case that Mr. Mott read this morn- 
 ing — the case of Thompson v. Khoades. I will not read that but 
 will skip over to another case. In the Rhoades case you will remem- 
 ber that it was such a title that the party selecting could transfer- 
 such a title as he could convey — and when the patent was issued it 
 reverted- back to the date of selection. 
 
 In the Cherokee Nation the treaty makes provisions which are 
 practically identical with those in the Creek Nation with reference 
 to the allotment of the tribal lands. The most extreme case that 
 could exist or be brought about in the matter of selection of lands 
 was that of the Henry Gas Co. v. United States, decided by the 
 Circuit Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit and reported in 
 191 Fed., 139. Here application and selection was made for a par- 
 ticular tract of allottable land by the mother of a minor enrolled 
 under the act of April 26, 1906, whose rights to enrollment were 
 being contested in the courts. 
 
 I would like very much to have the committee pay attention to 
 this, because I am satisfied the other side is going to urge that the 
 minor Indians — what they call the new borns — were not the old 
 original-agreement Indians, and therefore if they can not dispossess 
 all of them they can at least eliminate those who are known as new 
 borns. But these happen to be new-born Indians — Cherokees — and 
 in the treaty they hold practically the same as the Creeks. 
 
 On account of the doubtful status of the allottee the Dawes Com- 
 mission used erevy precaution to prevent any rights attaching by 
 reason of selection. No certificates of allotment, were issued nor 
 other evidence of title given except the notation upon the records 
 that application had been made. 
 
 Nevertheless, the court said in this case : 
 
 The enrollment witliin the time required and as of the date fixed determined 
 the right of the citizen to an allotment, and the failure beyond a reasonable 
 time after its approval by the Secretary of the Interior to make the allotment 
 and issue the proper evidence thereof can not operate to deprive him of his 
 right thereto or to participate in the distribution of the tribal j'oroperty. 
 
 Now, see what steps they take to keep these vested rights from 
 attaching : 
 
 I do not see how you could get a stronger case than ti|iat. I do not 
 see any ground left on which the advocates of this lejgislation can 
 stand — when the selections in these cases are admitted\ and the en- 
 rollment of these four — I will not say the fifth one, becfause that is 
 contested, and I am net, as I have suggested, appearing! here for or 
 having anything to do with the fifth. In fact, I on?ly represent 
 three. They are the lessors in this matter. \ 
 
 Senator Page. You are the lessee? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 337 
 
 Mr. Thkaves. Yes, sir; the lessee, and right here I want to sug- 
 gest that I would be glad to answer any questions Avith reference to 
 my contract, which I have stated in full in the hearing before the 
 House committee with reference to the customs in the oil field and 
 with reference to any legal point or any other question that may be 
 suggested. 
 
 Senator Page. From what you say I judge that you are the real 
 party in interest in this case. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. I am one of the parties in interest in this case — just 
 one of the parties. My interest, by the law, as Mr. Mott explained 
 this morning, gives to these allottees this land with the present en- 
 cumbrances now upon it. My interest will be very small and much 
 less than that of the allottees. If we succeed in canceling this and 
 removing that objectionable lease that is now sapping the oil from 
 the Thlocco and leaving it of little or no value to whoever prevails — 
 if we succeed in setting that aside, then my interest will be larger, 
 but I will have to pay them the customary price. In one instance I 
 pay one woman $10,000 and give her one-eighth of the oil on 20 acres 
 in order that she may be sure to get some oil should it prove productive. 
 
 Senator Page. You can do that if you prevail ? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Yes, sir; I have paid, however, $2,500 of that and 
 have spent in all over $10,000 in working up these cases. I will say 
 that without the evidence that I have gotten it would be impossible 
 to correct these allotments, and only 60 days ago I had Judge Allen 
 and Capt. Grayson and others around to verify i<^- . . , ^. , . ., 
 
 Mr. MoTT. tell the committee that your interest is identical with 
 that of the Government up to the cancellation. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not know that it is at all material, except as a 
 
 matter of law. . . , • , , •„i-„„„^4. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. I think in this case it is material, because my interest 
 and the Government's are identical until we get to the parting of the 
 ways; until we cancel all the fraudulent or duplicate allotments. 
 Now, I do not know, with all these encumbrances on this property, 
 how much of it I will get. It will depend alotgether upon how 
 successful we are in canc^eling these allotments As J figgested t^ 
 the Government before we started I would much prefer ^ five them 
 the usual and customary royalty of one-eighth and carry out my con- 
 tracts with the Indians and really settle this ^^J«i«, ^^^f^^^'/^^^^^^^ 
 the Indians, if they wanted to withdraw the other lands and except 
 
 -S:n:trSrA.Tren^riLte^^^^^^^^^ -e 
 
 ^S?\™r ?es; sir; that is the comp-y, and I will be glad 
 to explain that fully to the committee at any time. 
 
 Senator Page. Inasmuch as \« J^^^ J^^^ .fl^^t Suggest that 
 committee brought together to ^eai you, may i not g^ 
 you limit your time now as much as possible. It is very y 
 
 82833 — VOL 1 — 15 22 
 
338 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 before this matter is decided we will have to have a quorum of the 
 committee present. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. I would very much prefer that, Senator. I feel 
 rather disappointed — I suppose it is unavoidable — at not having 
 more of the committee present on this very important matter. I con- 
 sider it very important. I would suggest to the members who are 
 present that there is another very important point that should be 
 raised, and I shall raise it, and that is whether or not these Indians 
 not being Indians upon whom restrictions rest at all, the restrictions 
 having been removed by an act of Congress long since this treaty 
 agreement — you see in 1908 all of the Indians less than one-half 
 blood and all of the colored freedmen, had their restrictions removed 
 and they were turned loose and the department had no jurisdiction 
 over them or their land. As to those of more than one-half blood 
 they did have jurisdiction over their land and the restrictions still 
 rfemained on his homestead — 40 acres. But these Indians do not 
 come under that. The restrictions have been removed from them. 
 In a recent decision in the case of Bai-tlett v. The United States, the 
 court held that in no case would Congress be allowed to reimpose re- 
 strictions. Any act that Congress should pass now in an attempt 
 to divest these Indians of their rights in this way would amount to 
 the reimposition of restrictions and therefore would be wholly un- 
 constitutional. In addition to that it would be passing legislation 
 in the face of all the decisions of the courts from the district supreme 
 court to the Federal and United States courts. 
 
 I think the suggestion of the Senator is a good one. I do not care 
 to say anything at this time further than that I believe the intention 
 of the Creek tribal contract was good, and as to the movers of this 
 motion I think they feel they are doing good to the nation, but I 
 believe if this controversy continues it will aid the arch enemies of 
 the Indians in Oklahoma and of good government, for that matter, 
 to avail themselves of this great opportunity to take the cream of 
 this entire property and that neither of the four allottees, nor the 
 18,712 will get any profit out of it. 
 
 I thank you, gentlemen. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Is there any question about the proper enroll- 
 mi'nt of those five Indians entitling them to allotment? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Not at all. There are four now ; I would not say 
 five. As to 440 acres of this land, these four allottees are absolutely 
 entitled according to the conditions I suggested a while ago, which 
 are required to be conditions precedent, namely, to be enrolled as 
 citizens of the Creek Nation and living on April 1, 1899. There is no 
 question about that, and they have received allotment, and had they 
 prevailed some of them would have gotten several hundred thousand 
 dollars. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, I would be very glad to have Mr. 
 Eeed, of the Indian Office, who is present at this time, make a state- 
 ment. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. GEORGE REED, CLERK, INDIAN OFFICE. 
 
 Mr. Reed. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I am 
 sorry we have not a full committee present. 
 
 This is a conservation measure pure and simple. Its object is to 
 conserve the oil lands of the Creek Tribe, of an estimated total value 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 339 
 
 ?l ^^°^ $30,000,000, for the benefit of the entire membership of the 
 Creek Iribe and to meet a deficiency of about $3,028,878.17 of Creek 
 tribal funds required to equalize all Creek allotments on the basis of 
 $l,0i0 each, the standard value of a Creek allotment as fixed by sec- 
 tion 3 of the original Creek agreement of March 8, 1900 (31 Stat. L., 
 8d1) . 
 
 Senator Page. What do you mean by $30,000,000? I did not know 
 that there -nas any such amount involved. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I want to explain 
 
 Senator Page. If you will explain it later, I have nothing further 
 to say. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. Yes, sir ; I will answer that question later. 
 
 Senator Page. Very well. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. The act of Congress approved August 1, 1914 (Public, 
 No. 160), provided for the equalization of allotments of all Creek 
 agreement Indians up to the value of $800, and it is hoped that with 
 the recovery of valuable oil lands to be reverted to the Creek Tribe 
 through fraudulent and duplicate enrollment and allotment of Creek 
 citizens not entitled thereto that a sufficient amount will be realized 
 to equalize all Creek allotments on the basis of $1,040 and to thus 
 reheve the United States from any possible claim of the Creek Tribe 
 that the deficiency of $3,028,878.17 of Creek tribal funds should be 
 made good by the United States. 
 
 The claim is made by the Creek Tribe that through the enrollment 
 of ''newborn Creeks" a deficiency occurred in the amount of land 
 to be allotted among the Creek members, and there was not a sufficient 
 amount of tribal funds to equalize all allotments on the basis of 
 $1,040, and inasmuch as the administrative act was then under the 
 supervision of the United States, the error is that of the United 
 States, and the Creek Tribe has a just claim against the United 
 States to make that deficiency good. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I am in sympathy ^vith the effort to go back, if 
 it can be done, and to keep from allotment the lands that are not 
 allotted that have oil on them, but we should do that not upon the 
 ground that the Creeks may ha\e a claim against us. We can get 
 that money into the Creek fund with which to pay that claim. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I am saying this, that if a conservation measure is 
 passed sufficient funds ought to be put into the Treasury to meet all 
 claims of the Creek Tribe who are enrolled but do not- have a full 
 standard allotment of $1,040 each. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is correct. 
 
 Senator Page. But you do not want us to understand that you ad- 
 vocate the violation of any well-established law in order to do this? 
 
 Mr Eeed. No, sir. I will show you that there would be no viola- 
 tion whatever, and that the agreement will be carried out m full. 
 That is what we are attempting to do, carry out the agreement m 
 full, that these allotments shall be made to all members, that each 
 shall have " an equal share of the whole in value," as the expression 
 is used in the Creek agreements" an equal share of the whole id 
 
 ^Ywant to call the attention of the committee to the fact that there 
 are three proposed propositions in this conservation measure. One 
 is a withdrawal from further allotment of "^^.11?"^^ ,i"^,', «^, *';^" 
 Creek Tribe, which amount to 2,495 acres, remammg after the com- 
 pletion of the allotments already made. 
 
340 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Now, there is no contention on the part of Mr. Mott or Mr. Thraves 
 that that land is worth allotting to any person. Those lands hap- 
 pen to be unallotted because no member of the Creek Tribe saw fit to 
 select any of the land in allotment. It had been two or three times 
 offered at public sale, and it is the amount of land remaining unsold. 
 
 Now. the second proposition is to reserve the " public domain of 
 the Creek Nation " for the benefit of the entire membership of the 
 tribe. The " public domain " referred to in this conservation measure 
 consists of the beds of the Cimmarron and Arkansas Rivers, which 
 is claimed by the State of Oklahoma and also by the Creek Tribe. 
 These gentlemen are not contending for the allotment of any client 
 of theirs, or any member of the Creek Tribe on the public domain of 
 the Creek Nation, which is referred to here — the river beds of the 
 Cimmarron and Arkansas Elvers. That land is now tinder lease 
 under an amicable arrangement by the judge of the United States 
 court upon a lease given by the State of Oklahoma to certain parties 
 who are operating under that lease in order to prevent the adjacent 
 land owners from drawing the oil from under the river bed. The 
 necessity for immediate operation was apparent and an amicable 
 arrangement was made under orders of the United States court to 
 operate under a lease given by the State of ■ Oklahoma to these 
 parties. 
 
 That matter is not in contention at all and there is no objection 
 on the part of these gentlemen to a withdrawal of the public domain. 
 
 The other provision to which there is strenuous objection, and to 
 which they make their immediate objection, is the withdrawal of 
 lands now in litigation, or upon which certain parties have filed in 
 allotment and made selection, and which are now in the courts. to 
 determine whether those allotments were, first, fraudulently or 
 erroneously made — and let me say at this point that none of these 
 claimants can allot those lands until they revert to the Creek Tribe, 
 the suits must be maintained and brought to an issue, and the land 
 recovered for the Creek Tribe before these claimants can be allotted 
 the land. 
 
 Senator Page. Right there let me ask you if it should be finally 
 proved that the Creek Tribe really owned this land at the time this 
 selection was made, would not that validate those selections? 
 
 Mr. Reed. No, sir. I will come to that later. I want to call at- 
 tention to the fact that as to the unalloted lands, 2,495 acres, there is 
 no objection on the part of anyone to that withdrawal from fur- 
 ther allotment and the public domain. 
 
 Senator Page. You mean these 2,495 acres of worthless land? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. You say that has been offered twice and could not 
 be sold? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Three times. 
 
 Senator Page. At the auction sale, at which it was offered for sale, 
 was there a minimum price below which they would not accept an 
 offer? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes, sir ; the appraised value, called the minimum price 
 value, below which a bid would not be accepted. 
 
 The public domain, which is the river bed of the Cimarron River 
 and the Arkansas River, is a matter in the courts to be settled be- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 341 
 
 tween the State of Oklahoma and the Creek Tribe. These claimants 
 and proposed allottees have no interest in that controversy The 
 only controversy m which they have any interest which is involved 
 in this conservation measure is the withdrawal of these lands which 
 are now in litigation. When they reach the status of again being 
 vested in the Creek Tribe they can refuse then to allot that land. 
 
 There are 2,495 acres of unallotted Creek tribal land of doubtful 
 value in addition to which there are five allotments in the heart of 
 the Gushing oil field that were erroneously allotted to persons not 
 entitled thereto, the title to which has reverted to the Creek Tribe or 
 has been relinquished to the Creek Tribe by alleged allottees claim- 
 ing to be entitled thereto, the total value of which is said to be about 
 $7,000,000, and for each of these allotments of great value certain 
 Creek citizens, mostly newborn Creek freedmen. 
 
 And out of these five claimants they are all negro children ex- 
 cept tM'o, and they are Creek by blood. 1 want to call special 
 attention to their cases a little later on. 
 
 Mr. Thratos. Is Millard Sanders an Indian? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. He is a Creek by blood. 
 
 Mr. Thrives. How about Jack Elton Wilson ? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. As I say, Jack Elton Wilson is the only one who has 
 never received an allotment. All the others have had partial allot- 
 ments in every instance, and it is through their own fault that they 
 are not allotted now, on account of litigation in attempting to file 
 on land belonging to other people. 
 
 For each of these allotments of great value, certain Creek citi- 
 zens, mostly newborn Creek freemen, have attempted to file on 
 same in allotment, having secretlj^ agreed to lease, and actually 
 did lease, said valuable oil lands to oil companies who are to de- 
 fray the expenses of litigation in recovering the land so as to make 
 the lessors and claimant allottees 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator Lane). I want to ask you this: 
 Do you contend that these claimants are dummies put forth by 
 the oil company. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I will show you how they were merely stool pigeons 
 put forth by the oil company to deprive the Creek Tribe of the 
 benefits of that land. They picked them up here and there, and 
 found that they had no allotments, and asked them to ask for 
 atllotments on certain lands on which oil had been found. I will 
 peach that a little later. 
 
 They actually did lease said valuable oil lands to oil companies 
 who are to defray the expenses of litigation in recovering the 
 land so as to make the lessors and claimant allottees the legal owners 
 of the land and validate their leases already made to certain oil 
 companies who seek to develop these oil lands by reason of their 
 great value. 
 
 In support of this statement let me read an extract from a copy 
 of a contract and agreement made October 26, 1914, by C. W. Gar- 
 rett, guardian of Quentin Garrett, a newborn Creek freedman. No. 
 219, with J. Garfield Buell, party of the first part, wherein it was 
 agreed: 
 
 "That said party of the first part will pay all necessary ex- 
 penses including attorney's fees for the said party of the second 
 
342 INDIAlSr APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 part in connection with any and all litigation which may be neces- 
 sary to fully establish the' rights of said Quentin Garrett to the 
 aforesaid land." 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Who made that agreement, do you know? 
 
 Mr. Reed. It was made by the father and guardian of the Creek 
 freedman direct with the oil companies without any approval of the 
 Secretary. In fact, it was never submitted to the department or 
 any subordinate official. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. What oil company was that? 
 
 Mr. Reed. J. Garfield Buell, I am told, is an oil man. I do not 
 Know what company he represents. 
 
 Again let me read you an extract from a copy of " Contract to 
 lease," made by John W. Sanders, guardian of Millard Sanders, a 
 Creek minor by blood, roll No. 2406, who lost 40 acres of his son's 
 allotment in a contest with the Baptist Home Mission Society of 
 New York, and in order to complete his son's allotment in land made 
 a " contract to lease " with W. V. Thraves, an oil man, in November, 
 1914, which recites — 
 
 This is what Mr. Thraves agreed to do with the father of Miller 
 Sanders, provided he got this allotment : 
 
 Whereas W. V. Thraves has discovered the following tract or parcel of land 
 (describing it) * * * 
 
 Whereas the said land is now claimed by adverse parties under an allotment 
 to Emma Coker, full-blood Creek Indian, No. 8514, and Thomas Atkins, full- 
 blood Creek Indian, No. 7913. * * * 
 
 Whereas the said W. V. Thraves has gone to much expense and has spent 
 much time investigating the conditions under which said allotments were made 
 and the proof necessary to set the same aside and hereby further agrees to 
 do and perform, at his own expense, all necessary things to be done in order to 
 Bet aside said allotment to Thomas Atkins and Emma Coker, and 
 
 Whereas said land is of great value and will be of great value to the said 
 Millard Sanders by reason of its supposed oil and gas deposit and that John W. 
 Sanders, guardian and father of said Millard Sanders, is very anxious to secure 
 said allotment for his said ward and son. 
 
 Let me say here that if the Glenn Pool oil field had been discovered 
 before any allotments were made, there never would have been an 
 allottee allotted any oil land with the knowledge of the department. 
 No allottee has received an allotment known to be valuable for oil 
 at the time of allotment. The oil has been discovered since his allot- 
 ment and since his patent. These parties here are claiming the right 
 to be allotted land known to be at the time of the allotment valuablr- 
 for oil and worth se\eral million dollars. 
 
 Senator Page. Upon what law do you predicate the right of the 
 department to withdraw lands in case they are supposed to be 
 valuable ? Are you coming to that in your argument ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes. I can do it right now if you prefer. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. When it comes to that I want to ask him 
 a question. The allotment is made to these Indians of 160 acres, 
 origmally on the assumption of both the Government and the 
 Indian that it is valuable for a homestead on which to raise crops 
 and for farming purposes? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes; assuming that it is valuable for that purpose. 
 
 Let me say here, citing an increase: Suppose a timberman took 
 a.n enrolled citizen to a valuable tract of timber and wanted to allot 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 343 
 
 him on that timberland, and the commissioner to the Five Civilized 
 Tribes said: "No: I will not allot you that timber. That land will 
 not make you a good home. You have already sold that timber to 
 this proposed party, who wants to allot you on that land." Do vou 
 think It IS the policy of the department and proper action on the 
 part ot the (joyernment, simply because this Indian is being led by 
 a grafter to this timberland, that he should be allowed to be allotted 
 that timberland? I claim that the Secretary, for the benefit of the 
 Indian, supervising his interest as guardian, would have a right to 
 msist on him taking an allotment elsewhere, which would be more 
 beneficial to him. 
 
 Mr. Thr.wes. Mr. Chairman, may I just ask him a question, since 
 I am personally brought into the matter? 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I am just quoting from your lease. You do not 
 deny 
 
 Mr. Theaves. You made a statement that is misleading to the 
 committee, and I am sure you did not intend it. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I did not intend to mislead the committee in the slight- 
 est degree. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. I just want to show you where you did. Mr. Eeed 
 stated something about not getting a lease approved by the depart- 
 ment or the Secretary or anyone else. The lease does not have to be 
 approved by the Secretary because of the fact that the restrictions 
 have been removed from the Indians. I did the next thing, and what 
 the law requires, namely, that the county court should approve it. 
 After having been advertised in the county papers, and having all 
 the bidders who were interested in the oil business notified, this 
 contract was bid upon, and I was the highest bidder. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. At public auction ? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Yes. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Open and free to all ? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. We make no contention that these parties are longer 
 under the supervision of the Secretary, especially the freedmen. 
 Their restrictions on alienation have been entirely removed. They 
 can make a contract direct with Mr. Thraves. Their contract does 
 not come before the department for approval. 
 
 Who wouldn't do that much for his son if somebody else will 
 t- furnish the funds to fight ? Who are the real parties in interest and 
 protestants against the withdrawal of these lands from further 
 allotment? The oil companies, who have expended large sums of 
 money already in an attempt to frustrate any such withdrawal as 
 this resolution proposes. Is the interest of any oil company superior 
 to that of the tribe? This withdrawal will not disturb any vested 
 right, legal or equitable, of any allottee who was allotted land prior 
 to any discovery of oil thereunder. Ko allottee would have been 
 allotted land known to be of great value for oil prior to allotmen .. 
 To allot such claimants now, since the discovery of oil thereunuer, 
 to allot lands known to be of great value for oil would be to allot 
 each allottee land greatly in excess of $1,040, more than an equal 
 share of the whole in value," and would thus enrich certain oil com- 
 
344 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 panies to the detriment of the tribe and its members. Section 3 of 
 the original Creek agreement fixed a hmitation on each citizen's 
 share of all land to be allotted as" an equal share of the whole in 
 value," and that 160 acres of land valued at $6.50 per acre, or $1,040, 
 shall be "the standard of an allotment" and "the measure for 
 the equalization of values." ■, , ,, ^ • .i • » 
 
 Senator Geoxna. Do vou mean by that that is the maximum < 
 Mr Heed. I mean this^ that if there had been no oil discovered, and 
 no minerals of any kind beneath the surface, it was the intent of the 
 Creek agreement that every member should have land appraised 
 at exactly $1,040, provided there were sufficient lands and money to 
 go around The Creek agreement never contemplated that any al- 
 lotees should have an oil allotment valued at $3,000,000, under any 
 
 Senator Geonna. Were the mineral rights to any of these lands, the 
 coal or gas, withdrawn by the department? 
 Mr. Eeed. There is no coal in the Creek Nation. 
 Senator Geonna. That would apply just the same. It does not 
 make any difference whether it is coal or oil. They are all minerals. 
 I am simply asking you if a withdrawal has ever been made on these 
 particular lands. . , ^ . . 
 
 Mr. Reed. No. Mr. Mott referred to that fact m the Curtis Act, 
 where the original Curtis agreement provided that only the surface 
 of these lands should be allotted for the exclusive use and occupancy 
 of these members. That was not agreed to by the Creek Tribe, and 
 the lands were afterwards allotted without any reference to the 
 minerals underneath. 
 
 The Acting Chaieman. Was it known at the time that they con- 
 tained minerals? 
 Mr. Eeed. No. 
 
 The Acting Chaieman. If they had known it they would not have 
 allotted them? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. No. Those allotted got whatever went with it, just the 
 same as any other discovery a man might make on his property. 
 
 Mr. Mott contends in his argument to-day — and he did not make 
 such a statement before the committee to my recollection — that oil 
 was discovered before allotment in certain cases, and Mr. Wright 
 makes the statement in the hearing before the committee that it was 
 not known that any oil was underneath these allotments at the time 
 the allotment was made. Certainly if the Glenn Pool oil field had 
 been discovered and the other oil fields had been discovered requests 
 would have come to the department, or this committee would have 
 been asked to pass legislation to withdraw these lands as was done 
 in the case of the Choctaw coal lands. Secretary Hitchcock took 
 upon himself to arbitrarily withdraw from allotment the timber 
 lands in the Choctaw Nation in which 120 members already had 
 allotments of land and had certificates of allotment issued to them. 
 There was no attempt to deprive those allottees in the timberlands 
 of their tracts, but it was the intention to preserve that timber for 
 the further use of the entire membership. Secretary Hitchcock took 
 it upon himself to arbitrarily withdraw that land from further allot- 
 ment, and it has recently been sold at public auction to the highest 
 bidder, the proceeds to go for the benefit of the entire tribe. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 345 
 
 Senator Geonna. I am glad to hear that Secretary Hitchcock did 
 something beneficial at some time. I Icnow of a lot of things done 
 in the Northwest for which he is open to criticism. 
 
 Mr. Reed. I want to cite that provision of the Creek agreement 
 which I claim is sufficient authority for the Secretary of the Interior 
 to withdraw these oil lands from further allotment to any members. 
 And to remo^•e any doubt on that subject as to whether that section 
 45 is comprehensive enough to include that proposition we want the 
 legislation enacted by Congress to make sure of the proposition. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is not germane here, and I am sorry that it has 
 been introduced, but Secretary Hitchcock is dead. I was here some 
 years with Secretary Hitchcock, and I think he was as faithful a 
 secretary as we ever had, Senator. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I am not talking about his faithfulness. I am 
 simply talking about decisions. We have a right to criticize de- 
 cision and I am not the first one. I know I did criticize him when 
 he was alive. 
 
 ISIr. Eeed. I want to quote from the decision in the case of De 
 Graffenreid v. Iowa Land & Trust Co., Oklahoma, April 13, 1908 
 (95 Pacific Eeporter, 632), in support of my statement that the 
 Creek agreement never contemplated that any allottees should have 
 an allotment of a higher appraised value than $1,040. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I want to ask you a question in connection with 
 this. Supposing that a homestead entryman entered on 160 acres 
 of land before the mineral rights on that land were withdrawn, and 
 that subsequently it was discovered that underneath the surface of 
 that land minerals were lying, whether it was coal or oil, or what- 
 ever it might be, would you contend that it would not be right for 
 that homesteader to get what was underneath the surface of that 
 land? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. No, indeed. I make no such contention. All I claim 
 is this, that when his right is vested nobody can take it away from 
 bim; it makes no difference how valuable the entry or allotment 
 may be. But what I do contend is that if we know in advance that 
 this particular allotment is exceedingly valuable, and would far ex- 
 ceed his proportion of the allotted lands, we have a right to refuse 
 to allot him that particular piece of land so long as he has no vested 
 right. 
 
 Senator Page. Is not the whole question whether he has a vested 
 right? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. That is the whole question. I am coming to that in a 
 moment. 
 
 In the case I just referred to the court said, speaking of the Creek 
 agreement : 
 
 The in teat of the agreement was to give to no citizen of the Creek Nation the 
 advantage of another citizen in the equal distribution of the common property. 
 
 Mr. Mott lays great stress upon the fact that many allottees did 
 come into possession of valuable oil lands. It is no fault of the de- 
 partment. It is no fault of the Creek Tribe. Nobody presumed for 
 a moment to believe that these lands were underlam with valuable 
 oil deposits, and everyone thought that each allottee was gettmg an 
 equal share of the whole in value, as the Creek agreement prescribes. 
 
346 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 The Creek agreement never contemplated that any allottee under 
 any circumstances should be allotted land known to be at time of 
 allotment of the value of $3,000,000. . 
 
 This is the provision to which I wish to call the committee s atten- 
 tion. We claim that the Secretary at this time has authority to 
 withdraw this land, but we do not want to stand on that proposi- 
 tion, because the courts are liable to decide it against us, and we ask 
 the committee to enact this particular legislation to make sure of 
 this proposition. 
 
 Section 45 of the Creek agreement of March 8, 1900 (31 Stat. L., 
 
 861), provides that: 
 
 All tilings necessary to carrying into effect the provisions of this agreement, 
 not otherwise herein specifically provided for, shall be done under authority 
 and direction of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 The Secretary, like Mr. Hitchcock, believing that these lands 
 should be conserved for the entire membership of the tribe, has 
 already refused, I may say, in a hearing before the Commissioner of 
 Indian Affairs, to allot the valuable lands of Barney Thlocco to Lula 
 Walcott, on the ground that she is not entitled to an allotment of 
 that value. 
 
 Eecently in the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia David 
 Bowlegs, as to whom it is doubted whether he is still living — a suit 
 was brought in his behalf making it mandatory on the Secretary to 
 allot him the land of Barney Thlocco, and the court, Justice Gould 
 sitting, denied the writ of mandate on the ground that the entire 
 matter was within the supervision of the Secretary of the Interior, 
 and the court would not interfere with his action. They have taken 
 an appeal from that decision of Judge Gould to the court of ap- 
 peals, and their only hope of winning the case is on the fact that 
 these lands will never be withdrawn from allotment. We can read- 
 ily see that if this committee or Congress should make the proposed 
 enactment and withdraw the lands from allotment their appeal 
 would fall to the ground, and David Bowlegs would never be able 
 to get the allotment of Barney Thlocco. If David Bowlegs is still 
 alive — he is noted on the roll as having died in 1903, at the time his 
 mother says he did — ^he would still get land or money, and if the 
 Creek tribal funds prove sufficient he would still get a full allot- 
 ment in money of the value of $1,04-0. So these claimants to this 
 day can still be put on a parity and get the same amount of money 
 that any other Creek allottee can receive who has not received these 
 valuable oil lands. They will all get $1,040 if tribal funds prove 
 sufficient. They can now get under the act of August 1, 1914, $800. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Some reference has been made to the fact that the 
 value of this would evaporate before the matter was finally settled. 
 Is not the department in a position to prevent the spoliation of these 
 lands pending the settlement of these questions? 
 
 Mr. Reed. We can only prevent spoliation by refusing to allot 
 them. They have attempted to secure a writ of mandate compelling 
 the Secretary to allot them, but they have not succeeded thus far. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You can prevent their being worked, can you not? 
 That is a spoliation of tli?m. 
 
 Mr. Reed. We have taken action in the Barney Thlocco case. 
 The idea is to conserve it for the benefit of the entire tribe. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. What action have you taken? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 347 
 
 Mr. Eeed There has been a lease approved under the order of 
 the court The department did not do it. There was a lease in the 
 Barney -Thlocco case under the order of the court, made to the Black 
 Panther Oil Co., on a 25 per cent royalty basis. 
 
 Senator Clapp. What I am getting at is this: Are these lands so 
 situated that in case this amendment is passed you will still be pow- 
 erless to prevent the oil being taken? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. No. The amendment proposes that we either sell these 
 lands or lease them. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It has been urged that pending this settlement 
 they will pump the oil out and the value of the land will be gone. 
 Is there not any power in the department to prevent anybody taking 
 oil from there ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Certainly. 
 
 Senator Page. What would be your action to prevent ? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I do not Imow — there are so many different allotments 
 here. I can not answer to cover every case. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I say, assuming that this amendment is passed, 
 which would then supplement your position that the department can 
 withhold allotments by a legal declaration of which there can be no 
 question at all, unless vested rights have intervened, of course, is 
 there anything to stop you, then, from preventing the operation on 
 these particular lands? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. No, sir ; I do not Imow of any. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. May I ask Mr. Eeed a question ? 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Yes. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Do you mean that if this legislation is passed you can 
 stop those leases that are now on these three allotments and prevent 
 them from being further developed? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. It depends entirely on 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Under any circumstances at all? Dependent on noth- 
 ing? Can you do it at all? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I do not see that we have to recognize those leases. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. As Senator Page asked you, what would be your action 
 to stop it ? What would be your procedure ? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I can not anticipate what the action might be. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Is there any in law ? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I do not know as to that. I can not answer that off- 
 hand. These are all complicated questions. Now, let me tell you, 
 Senator, in the case of the Cimarron Eiver bed and the Arkansas 
 Eiver bed, those leases are made by the State of Oklahoma. They 
 are not made by the department. Whether we can claim that for the 
 Creek Tribe and set aside that lease already made under an amicable 
 arrangement with the court is an entirely different proposition. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Your claim now is on behalf of the Creek 
 
 Tribe? 
 Mr. Eeed. Certainly. But that land is being operated under a 
 
 lease to-day. 
 The Acting Chairman. By the State ? 
 Mr. Eeed. By the State, under an amicable arrangement— under 
 
 a lease made by the courts. , . xv, a* + > 
 
 The Acting Chairman. You are being governed by the btates 
 
 action there ? 
 
348 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr Eeed. Yes; we agreed to an arrangement to operate under 
 the lease during the pendency of the suit, not recognizing the vahdity 
 
 The Acting Chairman. And you are presenting the petition here. 
 It seems to me you ought to be down there. You have gone to the 
 wrong court ; that is all. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. The United States attorney appeared m that case. 
 
 Senator Page. What I want to know is whether there is any way 
 in which those men can be enjoined from proceeding to pump that 
 oil? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Take this case that I just cited here in my brief. If 
 Mr. Thraves should attempt under that lease to take out oil, and 
 Millard Sanders should never be given that allotment, and it did be- 
 come tribal property, we could stop that lease. He claims it was made 
 with a party of less than half blood, and that he does not have to 
 present the lease for the department's approval, he not being 
 restricted. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. May I just straighten him out on that? Oil is al- 
 ready being sapped by other allottees and parties holding under the 
 fictitious allottee. The oil is going all the same. Unless we stop 
 them, I do not know where it will end. 
 
 Mr. Reed. I want the committee to understand there are a whole 
 lot of leases made with supposed claimants, and the parties have 
 gone in and developed. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. And if the Indian finally draws that he 
 will draw a dry allotment ? - 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Is it not a fact as to these three allotments that imtil 
 these three cases are settled in a court of last resort, and that is the 
 Supreme Court of the United States — ■ — • 
 
 Mr. Reed. I admit that. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. It may take two to five years to do that, the district at- 
 torney says. 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes ; a long litigation. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. And until that is done the department has no power to 
 do anything? 
 
 Mr. Reed. That is true. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. They will go on and drill up to that time? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Has the Congress any power to change that? 
 Would an act of Congress give you a better standing in court ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. It will give us this standing : These five allotments are 
 the last part of this resolution. The unallotted lands on the public 
 domain have no reference to it. The matter for which Mr. Mott 
 contends aie these five particular allotments in litigation. If we can 
 recover in the suits for the Creek Tribe, and the title reverts to the 
 Creek Tribe, then this resolution gives us our remedy. But we want 
 to withdraw them from allotment. We must recover them for the 
 Creek Tribe before this resolution can have any effect, but when it 
 does revert to the Creek Tribe the resolution gives the Secretary the 
 authority which we think he already has, but which we are in doubt 
 about, to withdraw these particular lands. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. In the meantime the value of the property 
 has disappeared and j'ou are holding an empty bag? 
 
INDI4N APPROPEIATION BILL. 349 
 
 Mr. Eeed. No ; I do not think so. We are doing everything we can 
 to protect the interests of the Creek Tribe in the meantime. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. I was just judging that from what seemed 
 to be said by the other gentleman in the matter. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. ^Ye made an amicable arrangement in the Barney 
 Thlocco case whereby the oil is being conserved to await determina- 
 tion of the title as to whom it belongs. We are doing the same thing 
 ',n the river-bed cases. The money is being held by the receiver to 
 await the final determination of title. 
 
 Senator Geonna. If the Supreme Court should decide that these 
 rights are vested rights, what value would this legislation be to the 
 Government or to the department? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Are you speaking of the David Bowlegs case? We have 
 that case in the court. He is alleged to have died prior to March 4, 
 1905, and not entitled to allotment. It is not a case of a living person 
 having filed on the allotment at all. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. How about the other four ? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. Mr. IMott, I can not go into the details of all those 
 things now. You have argued fully. 
 
 Senator Gronka. I wanted your opinion about all of them. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I am going to reach the point of selection — the differ- 
 ence between selection and certificate of allotment. Mr. Mott dwelt 
 at great length upon the force of the word " selection " (Thomason v. 
 Rhoades, 206 Fed., 897). I want to explode that theory. 
 _ Senator Geonna. Of course I shall not urge my question. I 
 simply wanted to get your opinion as a lawyer as to what the status 
 would be in case the Supreme Court decides that they have a vested 
 right — as to what value this legislation would be to the department? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. It would give us this advantage : It will only affect the 
 particular case that is carried to the Supreme Court, if the court 
 holds that David Bowlegs has a vested right. Then we would have 
 to give a vested right under the decision in the David Bowlegs case. 
 I will say that there are four other claimants who are not in the 
 same position that David Bowlegs is, and the courts have not passed 
 on their cases. 
 
 Under the provision in section 45 of the Creek agreement of March 
 1, 1901 (31 Stat. L., 861), referred to it is believed to be within the 
 authority of the Secretary of the Interior to refuse to allow such 
 allotments to be made, but to remove any doubt on that point it is 
 desirable that Congress, by an act, authorize the withdrawal of said 
 lands from allotment. 
 
 Right here let me answer a question propounded by Mr. Burke, 
 of the House committee, who inquired : 
 
 If for r.ny reason no patents had in fact been issued to any Creek Indian, 
 notwithstanding their selection and filings, could Congress now by legislation 
 provide tor withholding the patents and authorizing the disposing or leasing of 
 lands for the benefit of the tribes? 
 
 I answer yes, provided no certificate of allotment has issued to any 
 (Jrcck ciiji7Gri 
 
 I come now to the decisions as to the power of Congress to reserve 
 this land at this particular time. i • j- -j i 
 
 There is not a single enrolled citizen who has any vested individual 
 right in the communal lands of the Creek Tribe. 
 
350 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not want to interfere with the course of your 
 argument, but it seems to me we have had a great deal here about 
 which there can be no question. I do not think anybody contends 
 but what Congress, imtil land is allotted, under the Lone Wolf case 
 and all the cases since then, can vary the terms of the agreement or 
 the law, retained as communal property, place limitations on the al- 
 lotment, or in fact do practically what it pleases. Now, the question 
 is when the right of the individual to his communal estate has been 
 surrendered and attaches to an individual piece of property — when 
 does that occur — and can the Government interfere with it after it 
 does occur ? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I hold that the individual interest can only attach upon 
 a certificate of allotment and not upon a mere selection and filing. 
 There must be some affirmative action on the part of the Government 
 to segregate that particular selection from the communal land. 
 
 Senator Page. That is just exactly what I wanted to get at. l^Tien 
 you reach that I wish you would impress it on my mind. That is the 
 crucial point here. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I would be glad to hear some authority on that. 
 
 Mr. Reed (reading) : 
 
 Anterior to tlie legislation which we must consider, the Creek lands and funds 
 belong to the trihe as a community and not to the members severally or as ten- 
 ants in common. * * * There was nothing in the agreement indicative of a 
 purpose to make a grant in prtesenti. On the contrary, it contemplated that 
 various preliminary acts were to precede any Investiture of individual rights. 
 The lauds and funds to which it related were tribal property and only as it was 
 carried into effect were individual claims to be fastened upon them. Unless 
 and until that was done Congress possessed iJlenary power to deal with them as 
 tribal property. It could revoke the agreement and abandon the purijose to 
 distribute them in severalty, or adopt another mode of distribution or pursue 
 any other course which to it seemed better for the Indians. 
 
 It could revoke the agreement and abandon the purpose to dis- 
 tribute them in severalty. In other words, wipe out the Creek agree- 
 ment if it saw fit. 
 
 Senator Clapp. There is no doubt about that. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. Or adopt anj other method of distribution. 
 
 What we ask you to do is to withdraw these lands at this time. 
 
 Senator Page. That seems to be perfectly clear, if a vested right 
 has not first intervened. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. I am going to reach that now. 
 
 The court in the same case in discussing the case of Gritts v. 
 Fisher (224 U. S., 640), wherein the constitutionality of the act of 
 April 26, 1906, authorizing the enrollment and allotment of new- 
 born Cherokee children, was attacked on the ground that it decreased 
 the distributive share of all Cherokee members already enrolled as 
 living on September 1, 1902, and rejecting that contention, said 
 (p. 648) : 
 
 No doubt such was the purport of the act. But that in our opinion did not 
 confer upon them any vested right such as would disable Congress from there- 
 after making provision for admitting newly born members of the tribe to the 
 allotment and distribution. The difficulty with the appellants' contention is that 
 It treats the act of 1902 as a contract, when " it is only an act of Congress and 
 can have no greater effect.'' (Cherokee intermarriage cases, 203 U. S., 76, 93.) 
 It was but an exertion of the administrative control of the Government over 
 the tnbnl property of tribal Indians, and was subject to change by Congress at 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 351 
 
 any time before it w^s cqrried into effect, and while the tribal relations con- 
 tinued. (Stephens v. Cherokee Nation, 174 Ti. S., 445, 488- Cherokee Nation 
 v. Hitchcock, 187 U. S., 294; Wallace v. Adams, 204 V. S., 415, 423.) 
 
 The Acting Chairman. In that case you just quoted there does 
 not seem to have been any allotments made, just merely an enroll- 
 ment. 
 
 Mr. Keed. This is the enrollment of new borns. In speaking of 
 this they claim that the allotment of the newborn Indian children 
 would decrease the share of the other allottees. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. The allotments had not been made? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. Not the newborn? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Allotments had not been made to any of them. 
 The question of the power of Congress to decrease an allotment that 
 has actually been made does not seem to have arisen in the case. 
 
 Mr. Reed. The point I make is this : We can do anything with this 
 land as long as the tribal relations continue and the title is in the 
 tribe. We do not take anything from any individual allottee. 
 
 The Acting Chair3:an. There is no argument on that. I think 
 that is conceded by everybody. 
 
 Mr. Thea^tis. We concede that. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. There is no argument on that — no dispute. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I want to be perfectly frank with you. My sym- 
 pathies are with the effort to j)ut a stop to a few men getting great 
 big colossal sums out of this under an agreement which contem- 
 plated $1,040 apiece. 
 
 My understanding of the law is that while the power of Congress 
 is plenary so long as the land and property is communal, no matter 
 what Congress has agreed that each man may have, but when the in- 
 dividual has surrendered his communal rights and has made the se- 
 lection of a specific piece of property, and there is no outstanding 
 claim against that specific piece, and he is an eligible allottee, then 
 the power of Congress has ceased. If there are any decisions to the 
 contrary I certainly would be glad to hear them. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. This is the argument I make on that point as to the 
 difference between a selection, a certificate of allotment, and a patent. 
 There are three steps. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You have not reached that. You are dealing now 
 with a case where there have been no allotments made. There had 
 been an agreement made on the basis of the distribution, and the 
 court very properly said that notwithstanding that basis had been 
 agreed upon, still this being communal property we can disregard it 
 and add to the number of beneficiaries. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Chief Justice White, in the case of Lone Wolf v. Hitchcock 
 (18717. S., 565), said: 
 
 Until the year 1871 the policy was pursued of dealing with the Indian tribes 
 by means of treaties * * * After an experience of a hundred years of the 
 treaty-making system of government, Congress has determined upon a new 
 departure— to govern them by acts of Congi-ess. * « * 
 
 The power exists to abrogate the provisions of an Indian treaty 
 when circumstances arise which will not only justify the Government in dis- 
 regarding the stipulations of the treaty but may demand in the interest of the 
 country and the Indians themselves that it should do so. ^ , ., 
 
 That Indians who had not been fully emancipated from the control and pro- 
 tection of the United States are subject, at least so far as the tribal lands are 
 
852 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 concerned, to be controlled by direct legislation of Congress, is also declared in 
 Choctaw Nation v. United States (119 U. S., 1, 27) and Stephens v. Cherokee 
 Nation (174 U. S., 445, 483). 
 
 The hue and cry that the act is unconstitutional is a niere bugaboo 
 intended to frighten the committee into refusing to legislate on the 
 subject. Unquestionably no vested rights of any citizen will be dis- 
 turbed, and the resolution will redound to the benefit of the entire 
 membership of the Creek Tribe, which it will enrich instead of some 
 oil company, whose efforts to induce some citizen to allot the lands 
 and lease to them will be frustrated. Every Creek citizen can still 
 receive his $800 equalization money, or $1,040, if Creek tribal funds 
 prove sufficient. 
 
 The mere filing of an application or the rnaking of a selection does 
 not create in a Creek applicant any vested right to take that particu- 
 lar land in allotment. Neither the original or supplemental Creek 
 agreement contains any such provision as can be found in the Chero- 
 kee, Choctaw, and Chickasaw agreements (see section 21 of the 
 Cherokee agreement and one identical in Choctaw- Chickasaw agree- 
 ment), which reads: 
 
 Allotment certificates issued by the Dawes Commission shall be conclusive 
 evidence of the right of allottee to the tract of land described therein, * * * 
 
 under which an equitable title was created upon the issuance of 
 allotment certificate and legal title passed to the allottee upon the 
 issuance of his patent. No such provision can be found in the Creek 
 agreement, and resort must be had to that provision of section 5 of 
 the act of April 26, 1907 (34 Stat. L., 137), intended to eliminate 
 all doubt or indefiniteness as to the precise time when legal title 
 did finally pass to allottee by providing that : 
 
 And all patents or deeds to allottees and other conveyances affecting lands 
 of any of said tribes shall be recorded in the office of the Commissioner to the 
 rive Civilized Tribes, and when so recorded shall convoy legal title, and shall 
 be delivered under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior to the party 
 entitled to receive the same. 
 
 As to when the inchoate right of an allottee begins, your attention 
 is directed to that provision in section 19 of the original Creek agree- 
 ment, italicized, and reading: 
 
 When any citizen shall thereafter make selection of his allotment and as 
 herein pro^•ided receive certificate therefor, he shall immediately thereupon be 
 placed in possession of his land. 
 
 The conjunction " and " following selection of allotment requires 
 in addition thereto the issuance of a certificate to create his right. 
 
 Suppose, as Mr. Mott contends, that that decision in the case of 
 Thomason v. Ehoades holds that a mere selection or filing en- 
 titles the allottee to that particular piece of land selected by him. 
 Suppose he went to the United States Indian agent, in accordance 
 with this pro\'ision of the Creek agreement, and asked to be placed 
 in possession of the land selected. The Indian agent would simply 
 ask him, "IVhere is your certificats of allotment?" The Creek 
 agreement provides that when he has selected the land "and has 
 received his certificate therefor" the United States Indian agent 
 shall place him in possession of his allotment and remove all persons 
 objectionable therefrom. But until he can produce that certificate, 
 which is his equitable title, he has no ^-ested right which the Indian 
 agent must recognize. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 353 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is a rule that was laid down for the Indian 
 office for the Dawes Commission, for the employees of the Govern 
 ment, that when an Indian finally presented his certificate then 
 
 Mr REED^Yes ^o^'*^™"ient to put him in possession. 
 
 Senator Cl^pp. Do you claim that that nullifies the rule that has 
 been laid down so often, and that is supplemented by the statute 
 which gives a right to bring an action to enforce an allottee's title, 
 and get a decree equivalent to specific performance' 
 
 Mr Reed. The certificate is liable to be attacked within nine 
 months. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The certificate is evidence of title? 
 
 Mr. Reed. That is all, evidence of title to this particular land. 
 
 benator Clapp. And when he presents the certificate, this being 
 a rule of conduct for the Go\ einment, the Government shall put him 
 into possession through its instrumentalities down there. 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes. 
 
 I maintain this, that the only provision in the Creek agreement 
 that respects his inchoate right to select a particular piece of land 
 in allotment requires that he not only selects the land but requires 
 that a certificate shall issue for it. 
 
 If the above position is correct, and I believe it is, the Creek 
 citizens who have made mere filings on these lands have created no 
 right to take these lands from the tribe in whom the title stands, as 
 they have no preference right by reason of ownership of improve- 
 ments thereon. 
 
 The only preferential right accorded any allottee by the Creek 
 agreement is to the one who owns the improvements on the lands 
 he selects. Let me cite a case. Suppose these five claimants whom 
 these attorneys represent should come into the land office of the 
 superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes, and each select the 
 same identical piece of land. The superintendent asks the first man 
 who files, "Are there any improvements on this land?" He says, 
 "No." The superintendent accepts his filing, and he has priority 
 over the other four simply in the matter of time. The second 
 man comes up and the superintendent asks if he owns the improve- 
 ments. He says, " Yes, I own the improvements on that property." 
 The other three men come in and simply say nothing on the sub- 
 ject. To whom of the five will the land be allotted? Who has the 
 preference among those five ? They all came there at the same time 
 and filed on the same day. There is one man ahead of the man 
 who owns the improvements. The Dawes Commission will give it 
 to the man who owns the improvements on the land selected, be- 
 cause the Creek agreement says he may gslect his allotment " so as 
 to include improvements v hich belong to him " and nobody can take 
 it awav from him. 
 
 You ■^ can readily see that the mere selection by the other four 
 amounts to nothing. The selection could be sent by mail to the 
 office of the superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes. He is 
 bound to receive it and file it as a piece of mail, but he does not re- 
 ceive it as a selection until he takes affirmative action and segregates 
 and sets aside as that allottee's selection this particular land and 
 describes it. 
 
 82833— VOL 1—15 23 
 
354 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Clapp. His selection amounts to nothing, because at the 
 time he made that selection this particular piece of land was not 
 open to general allotment. It was open first to allotment to the 
 man who had made improvements on it. 
 
 Mr Eeed. Wait a moment. Suppose there was no improvements 
 on any of this land that the five allottees selected. The one who 
 filed fiirst would get it oyer the other four. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Certainly. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. There is no preferential right accorded any one except 
 the priority of filing. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is all. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. He has no title until he gets his certificate. 
 
 Senator Page. That is the whole question. I want you to prove 
 that. Is not the fact that a man has made improvements equivalent 
 to a priority of selection? 
 
 Mr. Eeed. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. Then, there is no question about that. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. Here is a man who handled all that matter down there, 
 J. George Wright, Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes, and 
 in his testimony before the committee he makes that very clear. 
 Here is the answer to your question just as plainly as the official in 
 charge can make it. Mr. Miller asked the question, "When an 
 Indian makes application for an allotment that is not in controversy, 
 is he, as a matter of right, thereupon entitled to a certificate of 
 allotment?" 
 
 Mr. Weight. I would not say it was a matter of right. There might be other 
 questions come up as to whether he could be given that land, as to whether it 
 was subject to allotment. In the case of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations 
 all the land there was subject to allotment, hut Secretary Hitchcock, In the 
 case of the Choctaw Nation, arbitrarily directed that no more allotments be 
 made in a certain area containing coal and timber land, tjp to the time that 
 that order was issued there had been about 150 allotments made in that area, 
 and he directed Mr. Bixby, my predecessor, that from a certain day no more 
 allotments should be mude in that area. 
 
 Mr. J. George Wright takes the position that a mere selection and 
 filing, either by letter or appearing in person at the Land Office, 
 gives no vested right. 
 
 Senator Clapp. If there are circumstances, as he says, to defeat 
 the right. Secretary Hitchcock acted very rightly and very justly, 
 and everybody acquiesced in it, and it was a good thing for the 
 Indians that he took the action which he did. And I am inclined 
 it would be a good thing for us to do this. But the thing that stag- 
 gers me — I will be as frank with you as I was with the others — is 
 that if we are passing this legislation here that has no foundation 
 under the Constitution, then we are simply tying up these lands, 
 the lessor will hesitate to take them, and the Indian instead of get- 
 ting a vested interest may be really wronged. I had supposed until 
 the last half hour that the department had some grounds for holding 
 against these people making these allotments in case the former 
 allotments were vacated. Of course up to the point of vacating 
 the former allotments the Government and these gentlemen have the 
 same interests. I had supposed all the time there were some facts 
 that would be urged as a reason why these people could not take 
 this land. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 355 
 
 Mr. Eeed. The principal reason is that it is very vahiable Creek 
 oil land, and far m excess of the value the Indian was intended to 
 receive as an allotment. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. I want to ask somebody this question- 
 If this land \Thich is now in dispute, instead of having oil under it 
 was an old brickyard of no \ alue whate\er, would anybody be in here 
 with this proposition ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. No; nobody would be here, not even these gentlemen who 
 are here. You never would have heard of it. The fact that these 
 lands are very valuable for oil has brought about this controversy. 
 
 Senator Clapp. And we ought, if possible, put these lands where 
 they will go to the benefit of the tribe. There is no question in my 
 mind about that, if it can be done. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. The Supreme Court of the State of Oklahoma in the 
 case of De Graffenreid v. Iowa Land & Trust Co. (95 Pac. Reporter, 
 634), expressly held that an equitable title only arose upon the 
 issuance of a certificate of an allotment, and the legal title passed only 
 when patent was recorded. 
 
 He can not even have an equity until he gets a certificate of allot- 
 ment, and how can he ha\e any title whatever when he makes a mere 
 selection which is the preliminary step to the issuance of a certificate 
 that creates his equity? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. May I ask j^ou a question? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. In that case was not the question in issue that the second 
 tentative allottee claimed that his selection gave him a vested right 
 as against the first allottee ? Was not the question at issue there that 
 the first allottee having selected, the mere selection by the second did 
 not give him a vested right as against the first ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. In what case? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. That one you just read, the one in which you said the 
 mere selection did not give title. 
 
 Mr. Reed. It simply meant this, that the title had not vested, and 
 that there was not even an inchoate title until the issuance of the 
 certificate. There can only be two degrees of title, an equitable title 
 and a legal title. The court in this case held pointedly that there 
 was no equitable title until the certificate of allotment was issued, 
 and the legal title passed when the certificate was recorded. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Was not that between two allottees ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is what I thought. 
 
 Mr. Reed. A mere selection gives no precedence over other citi- 
 zens other than priority of filing. If a Creek citizen owns the im- 
 provements on land to be selected by him, he has a preference right 
 and it is the only preference right given any citizen to select such 
 land "so as to include improvements which belong to him." See 
 section 3, article 3, of the Creek treaty of February 14, 1833, stating 
 that the United States " will grant a patent in fee simple to the 
 Creek Nation •' : and the United States bv patent dated August 11, 
 1852, did " give and grant unto the said Muskogee or Creek Tribe of 
 Indians" to hold "so long as they shall exist as a nation and con- 
 tinue to occupy the country hereby conveyed to them. Ihis was 
 not a grant in prajsenti to any individual member or as tenants in 
 common,' and the tribal title being anterior and superior to that ot 
 
356 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 any individual member, the Creek Tribe has a right to refuse to allot 
 to any citizen land worth $3,000,000 in lieu of an allotment of the 
 standard value of $1,040. 
 
 The words " public domain " of the Creek Nation refer specially 
 to the river beds of the Arkansas end Cimarron Rivers, not only from 
 bank to bank but between meandering lines of allotments bordering 
 on each bank, all of which is claimed by the Creek Tribe whether 
 the rivers be navigable or nonnavigable. Valuable discoveries of oil 
 in the river beds have been made and a lease made by the State of 
 Oklahoma to an oil company to develop the oil in the river bed, 
 with an amicable arrangement to retain the proceeds less operating 
 expenses until the title to the river bed is determined in court. 
 
 Three suits are now pending to determine to whom the title to the 
 Arkansas and Cimarron River beds belong. If the suit is decided in 
 favor of the Creek Tribe, lands valued by the State geologist of 
 Oklahoma at $22,000,000 will be added to Creek tribal assets for 
 distribution among the members toward equalization of their allot- 
 ments to the value of $1,040. 
 
 The amendment further provides for the sale or lease for the 
 benefit of the Creek Tribe of all lands that may be recovered in any 
 pending suits filed or to be filed. These suits are to be instituted to 
 recover valuable oil lands erroneously allotted to persons who died 
 prior to April 1, 1899, or were twice enrolled and not entitled to 
 allotments, namely: 
 
 (1) Barney Thlocco, deceased. Creek by blood, roll No. 8592, 
 whose allotment has two oil wells drilled producing 3,000 barrels 
 daily, the entire •allotment being valued at $3,000,000. David Bow- 
 legs, Creek freedman. No. 796, alleged to have died prior to March 
 4, 1902, but who, it is claimed, is still living, has filed on the allot- 
 ment of Barney Thlocco, as has also Jack Elton Wilson, a Creek 
 minor, new born, roll No. 110, of three-eighths degree Creek blood. 
 
 (2) Hettie Lena, or Emma Coker, is a case of alleged duplicate 
 enrollment, -^vherein as Emma Coker she has quitclaimed her sur- 
 plus allotment to the Creek Nation and her homestead as Hettie 
 Lena, which contain the most valuable oil land of both allotments, 
 and has retained the homestead of Emma Coker and the surplus 
 allotment of Hettie Lena as her full allotment. The lands quit- 
 claimed to the Creek Nation are under lease, and Lulu Walcott, now 
 Butler, a Creek freedwoman, through her attorney, W. P. Thraves, 
 an oil man, seeks to take the ceded lands of Emma Coker as her 
 allotment. This allotment lies alongside the Barney Thlocco allot- 
 ment and is almost as valuable. 
 
 (3) Thomas Atkins, Creek by blood, roll No. 7913, had allotted 
 in his name a valuable oil allotment worth now about $1,000,000, and 
 it is to be determined whether he died prior to April 1, 1899, or even 
 whether he ever lived, as two different women — Minnie Atkins, now 
 Folk, and Nancy Atkins — both claim to be his mother. An investi- 
 gation will have to be made whether the enrollment of Thomas At- 
 kins was fraudulent, and whether his allotment in the Cushing oil 
 field of great value belongs to the Creek Tribe. Quentin Garrett, 
 Creek newborn freedman, roll No. 219, has applied to be allotted the 
 land of Thomas Atkins. 
 
 (4) Leta Kolvin. No one has yet filed on her allotment,. which is 
 very valuable for oil. This is believed to be a duplicate of the en- 
 
INDLAKT APPfiOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 357 
 
 ■ollment of Nancy .ruyson, Xo. i449. Nancy Grayson has applied 
 to relinquish the allotment made m her name and to take the allot- 
 ment made to her under the name of Leta Koh in, which is very 
 valuable as oil-producing property. It is not beheved that any such 
 person as Leta Kolvin has ever li^■ed, as no information can be ob- 
 tained as to her whereabouts, and it is believed that her enrollment is 
 fraudulent and that suit should be instituted to cancel her allotment 
 
 (5) Jemima. It is believed that Jemima's allotment is void as 
 having been made to a dead person, who can not take title, as held 
 in the case of the United States against Hawkins. It is alleged that 
 Jemima died during December, 1899, and that thereafter the land 
 was patented to her at the time she was dead. This allotment is also 
 in the Cushmg oil field, in which there are now a number of oil- 
 producing wells, and it is estimated to be worth $1,000,000. Her 
 alleged heirs have filed on the land. 
 
 It is proposed in the amendment to conserve the Creek tribal in- 
 terests in these lands for the benefit of the entire tribal member- 
 ship, and not to allow applicants at this late date to reap the benefit 
 of oil discoveries while the title stands in the tribe, and to enrich 
 oil companies instead of allottees by allotting such land. I am in 
 favor of the amendment and ask its adoption. 
 
 Senator Page. Do any of these cases, except the one you have 
 mentioned, come within that provision? There are five cases before 
 tis. Is there but one comes in that ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. There is not a single case of these five allotments where 
 they have any certificate of allotment whatever. That is the ex- 
 press object of this legislation, to cover these cases where these par- 
 ties have been allotted in duplicate, and erroneously allotted, and 
 have attempted to file on the land. 
 
 The Barney Thlocco allotment is the case of one who died prior 
 to April 1, 1899, is already noted as dead on the rolls, and not en- 
 titled to an allotment. A suit was brought in the IJnited States 
 court at Muskogee, and a decree entered canceling that allotment. 
 
 Senator Page. That would be canceled per se, without any action 
 on the part of this committee or Congress, would it not ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. The point is this: When this land reverts to the tribe 
 through the decree of that court then these parties that claim that 
 having already selected and filed before the action, or before the 
 decree of the court, their right has already vested and attached, and 
 we can not do otherwise than to allot them this land. What we are 
 attempting to do is to avoid that very stage of the case. We want, 
 when the tribe recovers these lands, and the title reverts to the tribe, 
 to withdraw them at once. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. The river beds are not involved in this matter, are they ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. They are the public domain of the Creek Nation. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. You have no objection to legislation as it affects the 
 $22,000,000 worth of river bottoms? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Not at all. I stated that in my brief. There is no con- 
 tention about the unallotted lands or the pubhc domain, but simply 
 these lands now involved in litigation. I want to say tor the in- 
 formation of the committee that it is ridiculous to attempt to say 
 that any enrolled citizen can come here and select land and claim 
 his right is vested, when it has already been allotted to other persons 
 
358 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 and is now in litigation as to whether the original allottee is en- 
 titled to it. o i.1 • 1 1 
 
 Senator Page. Let us get to a concrete case, (suppose this whole 
 matter depended upon one thing: Here is an Indian whose heirs 
 have filed upon a lot of land. 
 
 ]Mr Reed. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. I know that these Indians file wrongfully, and that 
 they are predicating their claim upon a man who has died before 
 ]899, and I therefore go in and file myself on that land. If 
 I can show that the first filing was void, then does not my filing, 
 ab initio, come back to the same position it would have been in if 
 the first filing had never been made? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Yes ; I doubt that. We are attempting at this time to 
 withdraw these lands before you reach that stage, before the decree 
 of the court canceling these allotments is made. It would be of no 
 value to the Creek Tribe to allow these suits to be decided adversely 
 to the Creek Tribe. We would not ask this legislation as to these 
 particular five claimants. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. May I ask a question ? Suppose the title had never 
 left the Creek Nation, which in the case of a void allotment it has 
 not, and it is still public domain, would it be subject to filing? 
 
 Mr. Reed. That is just exactljr what we want the committee to 
 say no on. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Did not the court in the Bowlegs case decide that 
 this land had never left the Creek Nation ? 
 
 Mr. Reed. Do you mean Judge Gould's decision ? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Reed. He simply held it was discretionary with the Secretary 
 of the Interior, that he had supervision over allotments, and the 
 coiirt declined to interfere and issue the mandate asked. 
 
 Mr. Thba\-es. Did not the court state that the title had never left 
 the Creek Nation — that it was still in the Creek Nation? 
 
 Mr. Reed. No ; the court never made any such statement. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Did hot the court state that he thought the Secretary 
 M'ould have to strike from the roll, even now 
 
 Mr. Reed. The court may have said several things during the hear- 
 ing, but in the denial of the motion the court simply held that the 
 writ of mandate would be denied on the grounds that the courts 
 would not interfere with the proper procedure in the Department of 
 the Interior, which has supervision over allotments. 
 
 Of these five allottees, there is only one of the five who has never 
 received any allotment. That is Jack Elton Wilson. He is a Creek 
 by blood. All the other four have had partial allotments. We claim 
 as to this part of the Creek Tribe that if you deny every one of them 
 an allotment they would still be put on an exact basis and ee(uality 
 with about 16,000 other enrolled members ; they would get their $800 
 and would eventually get the $1,040 if we had funds sufficient. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is true. That is why I am inclined to your 
 view, because that would be the equitable disposition of this matter. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that the committee adjourn. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to ; and thereupon, at 4 o'clock p. m., the 
 committee adjourned until Monday, January 25, 1915, at 10.30 
 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 MONDAY, JANUARY 35, 1915. 
 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Myers, Pittman, Lane, 
 Eobinson, Clapp, La FoUette, Page, and Gronna. 
 
 attorneys" fees SERVICES TO CHOCTAW INDIANS, OKLAHOMA. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. HENRY W. BLAIR, FORMER SENATOR FROM 
 THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE. 
 
 The Chairman. Ex-Senator BLiir, of New Hampshire, is present 
 and desires to make a short statement to the committee upon the 
 following item: 
 
 Provided further, That the money paid to tbe enrolled members as provided 
 herein shall be exempt from any lien for attorneys' fees or other debt con- 
 tracted prior to the passage of this act. 
 
 Mr. Blair. Mr. Chairman, there is a little matter that I desire to 
 be heard on by the committee for a short time. It relates to the com- 
 pensation of the attorneys in securing the placing of rejected names 
 upon the roll. Compensation to the attorneys was approved by the 
 department, and I being one of the parties in interest, I need the 
 money worse than the Indians need theirs, and I wanted to see if 
 I could not have the favorable action of this committee upon it. 
 
 It is in this situation : They were making the last and final roll 
 of the Choctaw Indians. I had done considerable business for vari- 
 ous firms who were acting for the Indians in Oklahoma several years 
 ago, and I put a great deal of hard work into it, as did the other men 
 employed. Certain Indians by the name of Gray that I am now 
 appearing for were left off the rolls. Upon application to the de- 
 partment they thought they would hear the case over again, and 
 after a good deal of labor in behalf of the estate of Mr. Jolm C. 
 Gray, who was the ancestor— he is dead, however, his wife, Helen 
 Gray, and four or five children surviving— I got the names upon the 
 roU with the approval of the department. After thorough investi- 
 gation of the whole matter a final judgment was had, and they are 
 drawing funds, under this bill that you are now enacting, wholly— 
 as far as evervthing goes in an attorney's effort— by my exertions. 
 So I represent whatsoever of trust funds they are gomg to draw 
 from the tribe bv reason of being on the roll. _ . 
 
 The matter of "compensation amounted under my original arrang^ 
 ment to $1,000. The department took the matter up under the law 
 of 1908 and adjudicated the matter of fee by allowing me $750, 
 which under the act of 1908 gives me a lien on the funds. 
 
360 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 I left the collection of it to my friend, Mr. Kappler. I did not 
 hear of any objection, except that some one did not want to make 
 payment out of these trust funds until the trust funds were in the 
 hands of the cestui que trust — there was some point of that descrip- 
 tion—but it is now a case that arises between the cestui que trust and 
 the trustees, so called. In the adjustment of the account of the trus- 
 tees as determined by the authorities the court or department author- 
 ized by law to take the matter up determined the amount that should 
 be paid over to the cestui que trust. This item of ours, by the allow- 
 ance of the department, should be first deducted and never paid to 
 the cestui que trust at all. So that general principle of law that 
 has been cited does not really arise in this case. 
 
 I do not know, Mr. Chairman, but that I may have omitted some 
 points as the matter came suddenly upon me Saturday. I did not 
 Imow that there was any controversy here except such as the eternal 
 controversy which affects a man when he is over 80 years old and a 
 great many of these Indians who are to get what you give them. I 
 devoted a good deal of the time of my life, and the last years of it, 
 for their benefit, and I would like to itiare my pay. The whole sum 
 does not amount to more than $1,200. 
 
 The Chairman. When we reach that item we shall not forget that 
 you have appeared before the committee, Senator. 
 
 Mr. Kappler. I may add, Mr. Chairman, that last session you 
 passed a law in which you enrolled quite a number of persons and 
 therein provided that the Secretary should deduct whatever attorney 
 fee he thought was reasonable. This is really following the law that 
 was passed April 30, 1908 (35 Stat., 70; 3 Kappler, 338), giving a 
 lien on the funds of those enrolled when contract was approved by 
 the Secretary. 
 
 The Chairman. In other words, you object to this proviso from 
 lines 12 to 15, which the House incorporated? 
 
 Mr. Kappler. All we would like to have inserted is this : " Except 
 where contracts have been heretofore approved by the Secretary of 
 the Interior under existing law," that being the verbiage suggested 
 by the Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 The following letter explains our position in the matter, and I 
 trust it may be made part of your record : 
 
 Januabt 15, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. As hurst, 
 
 Chairman Goniniittee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. 
 
 Sir: We respectfully ask tlaat tbe following amendment be added to the 
 Indian appropriation bill on page 27, after line 15 : 
 
 "Except where sncli contract lias been approved by the Secretary of the 
 Interior in accordance with existing law." 
 
 The act of April 30, 1908, contains the following provision : 
 
 "That contracts heretofore or hereafter made by and between persons 
 stricken by the Secretary of the Interior from the final rolls of the Five Civi- 
 lized Tribes, and attorneys employed by them to secure their restoration to the 
 rolls, shall be valid and enforceable when approved by the Secretary of the 
 Interior in their original or in such modified form as he may deem equitable 
 and not otherwise; and such contracts as are approved as herein provided, when 
 recorded in the county where such land is located shall be a lien, in the event 
 of the restoration of such persons to the rolls against allotted lands or tribal 
 funds of the persons so' restored to or given rights upon said rolls." (35 Stat., 
 70; 3 Kappler, 3.38.) 
 
 We were the attorneys for certain persons who were unlawfully stricken from 
 the rolls by the Secretary of the Interior and by proceedings in court we pro- 
 cured their enrollment, and they are now enjoying full rights as members of the 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 36i 
 
 Choctaw and OhickaKiw Tribes, We had contracts with these nersons nnrl n« 
 accoimt of the difficulty In collecting our fees we agreed wirthrCommissloner 
 of Indian Affairs, Mr. Leupp, that we would reduce them if there wa^ a wTy oj 
 insuring their payment, and ^ye agreed with the department t,. permU the 
 Secretary to fix the fees on the understanding that the department would rec! 
 ommend to Congress that we have a lien ou the allottee's funds for the amount 
 approved by the Secretary. Congress thereupon passed the aboN e provision and 
 under it Uie Secretary has apiu-oved several contracts, one for $750 ruuniig in 
 favor of former Senator Blair, of New Hampshire, and ourselves, and one In 
 favor of .T. L Fechheimer. of Chiekasha, Okla., and ourselves for $400 
 
 We hardly tiiink that it is the intentieu of Congress, in view of the legislation 
 of 1908 and tlie action of the department in approving our contracts now to 
 pass on an a.-t invalidathig our liens. We have acted in perfect good faith in 
 this matter, and have waited since 1008 for our money, and unless the pro- 
 vision on page 27 of the bill Is amended as proposed above, we are afraid an 
 Injustice will be done us. 
 
 Trusting that this amendment will be made to the pending bill we are 
 Tours, respectfully, - . ■ , 
 
 Charles .T. Kappler. 
 Charles H. Merillat, 
 James K. Jones, 
 
 MONTANA RECLA5IATI0N PROJECTS FLATHEAD AND BLACKFEET. 
 
 Senator Myebs. I -svas notified, Mr. Chairman, that the committee 
 would be ready to take up the Montana matter this morning. 
 
 The Chairman. The committee is ready. 
 
 Senator Myers. I ask that that be taken up and disposed of. 
 Has that report which was printed been received and distributed 
 to the Senators ? 
 
 The Chairman. It has. 
 
 Senator Myers. I have a motion pending, I believe, Mr. Chair- 
 man, that Mr. INIeritt's amendment be adopted as one of my amend- 
 ments. 
 
 The Chahssian. The Senator from Montana moves that the com- 
 mittee proceed to the consideration of the Montana items. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 Senator Myers. I say, Mr. Chairman, pending the motion made 
 by me some time ago, that Mr. Meritt's matter here be incorporated 
 in the bill as one amendment. I offered it as one amendment, and 
 that is pending before the committee now. It has been so fully 
 discussed before the committee by Senator Walsh and myself and 
 others that I really feel it does not need any further discussion. 
 Mr. Meritt has explained it, I think, and Senator Walsh and I have 
 said all there is to be said about it. It is contained in a report of 
 an investigating committee which the chairman states has been 
 printed and laid before the Senators, and has been before them for 
 several days, I understand. I hope the members of the committee 
 have read it, because it is very strongly in favor of the proposition, 
 and recommends even more than the amendment calls for. This 
 report recommends an appropriation of $1,400,00— that is my recol- 
 lection, something over $1,000,000— whereas this amendment only 
 calls for $500,000 on the Flathead project, and I really feel that 
 there is nothing more to be said about it. 
 
 The Chairman. The item referred to by Senator Myers is to be 
 found on page 33 of House Document No. 121.5, Sixty-third Congress, 
 third session. I will explain why some copies are not available. 
 
362 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 The rules of this committee, and the law, do not permit us to have 
 but six copies printed. Therefore we have but six. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Does this contain the print as suggested by the 
 department ? 
 
 The Chairman. It does, on page 33. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I suggest that the report be read. Is it 
 a very long report? 
 
 Senator KoBiN SON. It is rather voluminous. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I believe if the legislation were read and then the 
 recommendations and the conclusions of the Board of Engineers, it 
 would be sufficient to get the matter before the committee. 
 
 The Chairman. I will read the legislation and then the recommen- 
 dations. They are as follows: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and 
 directed to announce, at such time as in his opinion seems proper, the charge 
 for construction of irrigation systems on the Blackfeet, Flathead, and Fort 
 Peck Indian Reservations in Montana, which shall be made against each acre 
 of laud irrigable by the systems on each of said reservations. Such charges 
 shall be assessed against the land irrigable by the systems on each said reserva- 
 tion in the proportion of the total construction cost which each acre of such 
 land bears to the whole area of irrigable land thereunder. 
 
 On the 1st day of December after the announcement by the Secretary of the 
 Interior of the construction charge, the allottee, entryman, ijurchaser, or owner 
 of such irrigable land which might have been furnished water for irrigation 
 during the whole of the preceding irrigation season, from ditches actually con- 
 structed, shall pay to the superintendent of the reservation where the land is 
 located, for deposit to the credit of the United States as a reimbursement of the 
 appropriations made or to be made for construction of said irrigation systems, 
 5 per cent of the construction charge fixed for his land, as an initial installment, 
 and shall pay the balance of the charge in 15 annual installments, the first five of 
 which shall each be 5 per cent of the construction charge and the remainder shall 
 each be 7 per cent of the construction charge. The first of the annual install- 
 ments shall berome due and payable on December 1 of the fifth calendar year 
 after the initial installment : Provided, That any allottee, entryman, purchaser, 
 or owner may, if he so elects, pay the whole or any part of the construction 
 charges within any shorter period : Proviatd further. That the Secretary of the 
 Interior may, in his discretion, grant such extension of the time for payments 
 herein required from Indian allottees or their heirs as he may determine proper 
 and necessary, so long as such land remains in Indian title. 
 
 That the tribal funds heretofore covered into the Treasury of the United States 
 in partial reimbursement of appropriations made for constructing irrigation 
 systems on said reservations shall be placed to the credit of the tribe and be 
 available for such expenditure for the benefit of the tribe as may be made 
 under existing law. 
 
 And there is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury of the 
 United States not otherwise appropriated, the sum of $525,187.93 for this pur- 
 pose, $4,544.40 thereof to be credited to the Indians of the Blackfeet Reserva- 
 tion, $440,217.78 thereof to be credited to the Indians of the Flathead Reserva- 
 tion, and the balance, $80,425.75, to be credited to the Indians of the Fort Peck 
 Reservation, the same being the amounts heretofore covered into the Treasury 
 on this account. The cost of constructing irrigation systems to irrigate the 
 allotted lands of the Indians on these reservations shall be reimbursed to the 
 United States as hereinbefore provided, and no further reimbursements from 
 the tribal funds shall be made on account of said irrigation works, except that 
 all charges against Indian allottees or their heirs herein authorized, unless oth- 
 erwise paid, may be paid from the individual shares in the tribal funds, when 
 the same is available for distribution, in the discreton of the Secretary of the 
 Interor. 
 
 That the sum of $50,000 be, and the same is hereby, appropriated, out of any 
 money not otherwise appropriated, for continuing construction of the irrigation 
 systems on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Montana . which shall be imme- 
 diately available and remain available until expended: Provided, That the 
 entryman upon the surplus unallotted lands to be irrigated by such systems 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 363 
 
 shall, in addition to compliance with the homestead laws, before receiving 
 patent for the lands covered by his entry, pay the charges apportioned against 
 such tract as herein authorized, and a failure to make any two payments when 
 due shall render the entry subject to cancellation, with 'the forfeiture to the 
 United States of all rights acquired under the provisions of this act, as well' 
 as of any moneys paid on account thereof. The purchaser of any Indian allot- 
 ment to be irrigated by such system, purchased upon approval of the Secretary 
 of the Interior, before the charges against said allotment herein authorized 
 shall have been paid, shall pay all charges remaining unpaid at the time of such 
 purchase, and in all patents or deeds for such purchased allotments, and also in 
 all patents in fee to allottees or their heirs issued before payment of all such 
 charges herein authorized to be made against their allotments, there shall be 
 expressed that there is reserved upon the lands therein described a lien for 
 such charges, and such lien may be enforced, or, upon payment of the delin- 
 quent charges, may be released by the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 That the sum of $500,000 be. and the same is hereby, appropriated, out of any 
 money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for continuing construction 
 of the Irrigation systems on the Flathead Indian Reservation in Montana, 
 which shall be Immediately available and remain available until expended: 
 Provided, JChat the payments for the proportionate cost of the construction of 
 said systems required of settlers on the surplus unallotted land by section 9, 
 chapter 1495, Statutes of the United States of America, entitled "An act for 
 the survey and allotment of lands now embraced within the limits of the Flat- 
 head Indian Reservation in the State of Montana, and the sale and disposal of 
 all surplus lands after allotment," as amended by section 15 of the act of 
 May 29, 1908 (35 Stat. L., 448). shall be made as herein provided: Provided 
 further, That nothing contained in the act of May 29, 1908 (35 Stat. L., 444), 
 shall be construed to exempt the purchaser of any Indian allotment jjurchased 
 prior to the expiration of the trust period thereon from any charge for con- 
 struction of the irrigation system incurred up to the time of such purchase, 
 except such charges as shall have accrued and become Ane in accordance with 
 the public notices herein provided for, or to relieve the owners of all land 
 allotted to Indians in severalty from payment of the charges herein required 
 to be made against said land on account of construction of the irrigation sys- 
 tems; and in carrying out the provisions of said section the exemption tlierein 
 authorized from charges incurred against allotments purchased prior to the 
 expiration of the trust period thereon shall be the amount of the charges or 
 installments thereof due under public notice herein provided for up to the 
 time of such purchase. 
 
 That the sum of $100,000 be. and the same is hereby. !U)|M-opriated. out of 
 any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for continuins construc- 
 tion of the irrigation systems on tlie Foil Peclc Indir.n Reservation in Montana, 
 which shall be immediatelv available and remain available until expended : 
 Provided, That the proportionate cost of the construction of said systems re- 
 quired of settlers and entivmen on the surplus unallotted irrigalile land by 
 section 2 of the act of May 30. 1908 (35 Stat. L., 55S), shall be paid as herein 
 provided: Provided further. That nothing contained in said act of May oO. 1908, 
 shall be construed to exempt the purchaser of any Indian allotment purchased 
 prior to the expiration of the trust period thereon from any charge for con- 
 struction of the irrigation system incnrred up to the time of such purchase, 
 except such charges as shall have accrued and become due m accordance with 
 the public notices herein provided for, and the purchaser «* »"/«^ «t^vL"°v 
 ment to be irrigated by said systems purchased ujion approval of the Secietai> 
 of the interior before the charges against said allotment 'X^Hnro^^su'ch pur 
 have been paid shall pay all charpes i-e"'""""'^V«l''-V^ '' '^1*^,.^'" fj^,;;^^^^^ 
 chase, and in all r.atents or deeds tov such purchased ■' ;_'toe"t«. '" J''" ^been 
 patents in fee to allottees or their heirs issued before l^^y"f";,^/^^\\\Xents 
 made of all such charges herein authorized to be ''-'^'^^J^l'l^^^^^^\^^^^^ 
 there shall be expressed that there is reserved "l'""/i^;„^™^.^ ^^''^\" ^^'^ t Jf 
 a lien for such charges, and such lien may be enfolded oi the lute/i^ 
 the delinquent charges may be released by the S^'^^^J^^f, "^.^^^'^Jj '^^^^^^^^^ p„r- 
 
 That in addition to the construction r-hnrges f ^"^.f °J^^::;.^'';|^'/'"';"ai^te- 
 chaser, or owner shall pay to the f "Penntendenl of ^^e «se, a on a ma je 
 nance and operation charge basec upon the total cos^ o^^^ ^^^^ 
 
 operation of the systems on "^e^^^f'^'^f^Vaiie mice and operation charge 
 Interior is hereby authorized to fi^ sufli .mainttnaiHe 
 
364 INDIAN APPEOPEXATION BILL. 
 
 upon such basis as shall be equitable to the owners of the irrigable laud. Such 
 charges when collected shall be available for expenditure in the m:untenance 
 and operation of the systems on the reservation vrhere collected : Provided, That 
 delivery of water to any tract of land may be refused ou account of nonpayment 
 of any charges herein authorized, and the same may, in the discretion of the 
 Secretary of the Interior, be collected by a suit for money owed : Provided fur- 
 ther, That the rights of the United States to water for Indian lands shall be 
 continued in full force and effect until the Indian title to such land is extin- 
 guished. 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to pre- 
 scribe such rules and regulations and issue such notices as may be necessary 
 to carry into effect the provisions of this act, and he is hereby authorized and 
 directed to determine the area of land on each reservation which may be irri- 
 gated from constructed ditches and to determine what allowance, if any, shall 
 be made for ditches constructed by individuals for the diversion and distribu- 
 tion of a partial or total water supply for allotted or surplus unallotted land: 
 Provided, That if water be available prior to the announcement of the charge 
 herein authorized, the Secretary of the Interior may furnish water to land 
 under the systems on the said reservations, making a reasonable charge there- 
 for, and such charges when collected may be used for construction or mainte- 
 nance of the systems through which such water shall have been furnished. 
 
 The work to be done with the amounts herein appropriated for the comple- 
 tion of these projects may be done by the Reclamation Service, on plans and 
 estimates furnished by that service and approved by the Commissioner of 
 Indian Affairs. 
 
 All laws and parts of laws in conflict herewith are hereby repealed. 
 
 Note. — It was fonud impracticable within the short period after the act of 
 August 1, 1914, to complete the necessary field examination, report, and prepara- 
 tion of estimates based thereon ; therefore this estimate could not be submitted 
 ou October 15, 1914. 
 
 There is an imperative public necessity for the submission of the estimate 
 at this session of Congress. The irrigation projects are in a partially completed 
 condition and great waste will ensue if funds be not provided to continue the 
 work. A great many Indians and white citizens depend upon the early comple- 
 tion of these projects for their only means of making a living from their land 
 and saving their property and their investments in improvements. The Govern- 
 ment has now an organization assembled in charge of the work, and its ultimate 
 cost will be greatly enlarged unless continuous progress is maintained toward 
 completion at as early a date as possible. 
 
 Mr.MEEiTT. I Avill say, Mr. Chairman, that the recommendations 
 of the Board of Engineers that investigated these projects is found 
 beginning with page 38 of House Document No. 1215, Sixty-third 
 Congress, third session. 
 
 Senator Page. I would like to ask for information whether this 
 committee generally understands by the hasty reading of this long 
 report what it means? 
 
 The Chairman. The chairman is not a mind reader. Did you un- 
 derstand it? I do not know whether the committee understands it 
 or not as I am not a mind reader. 
 
 Senator Egbiksox. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that this carries 
 forward all these Indian reclamation projects, but that among other 
 things it changes, in so far as the Indians are concerned, the method 
 of fixing the charges for the benefit -to their lands. It assesses, or 
 seeks to assess, the amount of benefit to the individual and his land 
 rather than as against his tribal fund, as to each; is that not correct? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; that is correct. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I think that is a verv important and very just 
 and very necessary change in the system. " 
 
 • Senator Page This appropriation then is to come out of the funds 
 m the h ederal Treasury, and instead of the Indian taking a chance 
 
INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 
 
 365 
 
 on getting his money back at some time in case the project proves 
 bad, the Government takes that chance, does it not 2 -^ Pioves 
 
 Senator Robinson. The Indian and his land stand good for his 
 share of the expense and for no more, as I understand it The whole 
 tribal fimd and the whole tribal property are not bound for the 
 whole project or even for the mdividual project, as it affects the 
 Indians. But each Indian and his land are bound for the benefits 
 that are assessed against his land and no more. I think that is a 
 '"''J^i.^^^P^^*^'^* change and a very important improvement 
 
 Ihe Chairman. That is mv understanding of it. 
 
 Senator EoBiNsoN. I am unable to find anv objection to this amend- 
 ment in that form. If the projects are to be carried forward at all 
 it seems to me that is the method by which it should be done The 
 only remaining question in my mind is whether these projects are of 
 sufficient practicability to warrant this expenditure, and both Sena- 
 tors from Montana assert that they are. 
 
 Senator Myers. I would like to say a word 
 
 Senator Page. Will you let me ask a question right there? 
 
 The Chairman. Senator Myers has the floor. Do you yield to the 
 Senator from Vermont? 
 
 Senator Page. It is a question I desire to ask in regard to the point 
 that he has just mentioned. 
 
 Senator Myers. I will yield. But what I was going to say was just 
 as pertinent. 
 
 Senator Page. What becomes of the prior expenditures ? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I believe there is a provision in this amendment 
 that seeks to change that and make that reimbursible as provided in 
 this act ; is that correct, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir.- 
 
 Senator Robinson. In reading it over this morning I was not sure 
 as to the effect of the provision and I think I marked it as I went 
 along. I read as follows : 
 
 Provided, That tie payments for the proportionate cost of the construction of 
 said systems required of settlers on the surplus unallotted land by section 9, 
 chapter 1495, Statutes of the United States of America, entitled '" An act for the 
 survey and allotment of lands now embraced within the limits of the Flathead 
 Indian Reservation in the State of Montana, and the sale and disposal of all 
 surplus lands after allotment," as amended by section 15 nf the act of May 29, 
 1908 (39 Stats. L., 448), shall be made as herein provided. 
 
 That, as I understand it, changes the method of the reimbursement ; 
 is that right? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This legislation changes the method of reimburse- 
 ment, and we also ask for an appropriation of $52.3,187.93 to reim- 
 burse the tribal funds. That is required for the advances to the 
 Treasury Department out of tribal funds to reimburse the appropri- 
 ation where it was made out of the Treasury for these projects. 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Chairman, going back to the remark that Sen- 
 ator Robinson made about the question of whether or not these 
 projects are worth while pursuing and completing, I simply desire 
 to say that I do not ask the committee to take my word or Sen- 
 ator Walsh's word about that. The report of this investigating com- 
 mittee which was appointed at the behest of this committee and of 
 Congress and of Mr. Sells— which report has been printed and 
 
366 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 laid before the committee— shows that that committee has gone 
 on the ground and has carefully, from an impartial standpoint, in- 
 vestigated the Flathead project and commended it in high terms and 
 states that it is a feasible and worthy project, and urges speedy com- 
 pletion of it be had and an appropriation made to complete it. Is 
 that not correct, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That is true, Mr. Chairman. 
 
 Senator Myees. This committee had that provision put into the 
 bill last year. The committee had some difference of opinion about 
 how much to appropriate last year and finally put in $200,000, and 
 coupled with it a proviso, or a rider, that before any further appro- 
 priations were to be made the Interior Department cause a fair and im- 
 partial investigation of this project to be made by a fair and impar- 
 tial committee to be selected by the Interior Department. This com- 
 mittee had that done itself for its own satisfaction, and Mr. Sells, or 
 Secretary Lane — I do not know which, probably both — ^had a fair 
 and impartial committee appointed. Neither Senator Walsh nor I 
 knew who Avas to be on the committee; we never suggested a single 
 name. I know I did not know Avho was on the committee until the 
 work was all over. Did you, Senator "VYalsh ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. No. 
 
 Senator Mtees. Neither of us knew. I do not think I am person- 
 ally acquainted with but one of the men on the committee. That 
 committee, which was appointed at the behest of this committee, 
 brought in a report commending the Flathead project in the highest 
 terms and said 
 
 The Chaieman. Let me interrupt you in order that we may get in 
 the record — who composed the committee ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. W. S. Hanna, superintendent of irrigation, chair- 
 man; L. M. Holt, superintendent of irrigation; Henry W. Dietz, 
 superintendent of irrigation; in connection with the superintendents 
 of the three reservations, C. B. Lohmiller, superintendent of Fort 
 Peck Keservation; Arthur E. McFatridge, superintendent Blackfeet 
 Reservation; and Fred C. Morgan, superintendent Flathead Res- 
 ervation. 
 
 The Chaieman. Those first three gentlemen you have mentioned — 
 I do not know the others — have the highest reputation for excellence 
 and competency in their line of work, have they not? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; and at least two of the others have. One of 
 them had an adverse report made against his work on the Blackfeet 
 Reservation. The irrigation engineers, who formulated the report 
 so far as the technical matter concerning irrigation projects is con- 
 cerned, are all excellent gentlemen and of the highest standing. 
 
 Senator Lane. What department are they connected with ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The irrigation section, Indian Service. 
 
 Senator Laxe. And the other gentlemen are connected with the ad- 
 ministrative branch ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. One of them was suspended for malfeasance i'l 
 office, was he not? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. McFatridge has been recently suspended. 
 
 Senator Myees. As I was saying, whatever this commission may 
 have done, good, bad, or indifferent, no member of the Montana 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 367 
 
 delegation had anything to do with selecting or recommending any 
 of them, or knew who they were going to be or who they were until 
 after the report was made. This investigation was conducted at the 
 behest of this committee. The idea originated here in this com- 
 mitee and was put as a rider on the last appropriation bill. The re- 
 port is in now and it recommends in very high terms the feasibility 
 and desirability and practicability of the Flathead project, which it 
 says ought to be pushed to speedy completion and a large appro- 
 priation made, and even recommends, as I recollect, an appropria- 
 tion of $1,400,000 for immediate work. 80 we do not ask you to 
 go on what we say about the project. We simply leave it to the 
 committee that was selected to investigate it. 
 
 And, further, the Interior Department, or the Indian Bureau — ■ 
 which is a part of the Interior Department — both doubtless have 
 heretofore had some complaint to make about the manner in which 
 these appropriations were made and expended, and that complaint 
 was evidently shared in last year by quite a number of the mem- 
 bers of this committee, and we have left it this year to the Indian 
 Bureau to fix this up, just exactly as it is, and we accepted it with- 
 out crossing a " t " or dotting an " i." Mr. Meritt says he has fixed 
 it up in accordance with the views of the Indian Bureau and in ac- 
 cordance with the views of the members of this committee who op- 
 posed the whole plan, and we accept everything he has done and 
 simply ask that the appropriation be made. 
 
 I am sorry that all the members of the committee are not present 
 to hear my remarks, but I know they were necessarily called away 
 from the committee. 
 
 Senator Geonna. As I understand it, this bill appropriates 
 $1,175,187.93; am I correct about that? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The total appropriation for the Montana project is 
 $1,175,187.93. 
 
 Senator Mters. I do not see how the amendment will provide 
 for the payment of any more money than $675,000. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Some of it is for the payment of funds here- 
 tofore authorized to be expended. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; $650,000 of this appropriation is for the 
 construction work of three projects and $525,187.93 is for the pur- 
 pose of reimbursing the tribal fund of these Indians. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That has heretofore been paid out of the 
 tribal fund for the construction woi-k heretofore done? 
 
 Jul' ATerttt ^l fs sir 
 
 Senator EoisiNSON. Now, this proposes to reimburse the fund in 
 that amount. 
 
 s/Lv IVTerttt "yes SI r . 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not see any objection to that. 
 
 Senator Mters. As I have said. Senator Robmson we do not ask 
 the committee to go on the judgment of Senator Walsh and myself. 
 
 Senator RobinsBn. I heard that statement, but if you and Senator 
 Walsh said that you were personally familiar with the projects and 
 thought that they were good projects, it would be very strong evi- 
 
 '^'senatorKRs'^' We base it upon the report of the committee that 
 went out there and was appointed for that purpose, a committee 
 that was supposed to be a fair and impartial one. None of the 
 
368 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Montana delegation had anything to do with selecting them or 
 knew who they were going to be, and that committee has recom- 
 mended it in very high terms in this respect. I am glad that this 
 committee had the report printed and I hope that some of the 
 members of the committee will read it. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. There has already been so much money spent 
 on some of the projects that imless the evidence showed clearly that 
 they would prove impracticable, we would be compelled to make it, 
 I suppose. 
 
 Senator Mtees. The recommendation of this committee is that it 
 is highly feasible and ought to be rushed to completion. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. As I have said, this amendment which is sub- 
 mitted certainly is designed to, and I think does, take care of the 
 great objection that has been urged against this system heretofore, 
 and does provide that only such part of this construction as is prop- 
 erly assessable against the Indian whose lands are benefited shall be 
 charged to him, and that part shall be chaiged to him and not 
 against the tribal fund. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There can be no question about the feasibility of the 
 Flathead Indian project. That has not been questioned by anyone 
 who has any knowledge of that project and the conditions on that 
 reservation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What about the Blackfeet? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There are those who believe that the Blackfeet project 
 will not be a success. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. There has been an assertion made — I do not 
 remember now by whom — that the water supply would be inade- 
 quate to furnish the entire project and that, therefore, those who 
 succeeded in getting their water first would be cared for, while those 
 who were last in getting the water rights might not be. 
 
 Senator Mxees. I understood Senator Walsh to say the other day 
 that the report of the engineers on that project shows that there is 
 plenty of water for the whites and Indians both ; is that not correct, 
 Senator Walsh? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Yes ; that is referred to on page 39 of the record. 
 I do not know that the commission went into that inquiry as to the 
 adequacy of the water supply, but I know enough about the country 
 myself to express unequivocally the view that the water supply is 
 abundant 
 
 Senator Eobinson. May I interruiJt you? I notice on page 15 
 of this report 
 
 Senator Walsh. If the Senator will pardon me a moment, I know 
 that the Conrad irrigation project lies just on the south side of 
 Birch Creek and is supplied by Birch Creek and Badger Creek, and 
 that covers 160,000 acres. Neither of them is as large a stream as 
 Two Medicine, and Badger is as large as Birch Creek, and the water 
 supply cannot be a matter of serious doubt to anybody who knows 
 the country. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I was about to call your attention to page 15 of 
 this report which refers to " Two Medicine unit." The first para- 
 graph is as follows : 
 
 This system as originally designed was intended to supply 29,000 acres, 24,600 
 acres of which are alloted to Indians. As at present constructed, however, it 
 would be impossible for the main canal to properly supply water to more than 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 309 
 
 about 6,000 acres. The lateral system bus been constructed sufficiently large 
 to supply the entire area, but turnouts and small laterals have been built only 
 to each 40-acre tract of allotted land. 
 
 Then they continue to discuss the matter. I do not find that they 
 indicate that the water supply is insufficient when completed under 
 the plan they suggest. 
 
 Senator Walsh. No ; they do not. I feel very certain that it was 
 impossible for that commission to make the inquiries necessary to 
 satisfy themselves from independent sources concerning the adequacy 
 of the water supply. But all those streams have been gauged, and 
 the Reclamation Service has the gauges. It is a mere matter of 
 reservoir capacity. 
 
 Senator Myers. The estimate of the engineer shows that there is 
 plenty, does it not? 
 
 Senator Walsh. There never has been a question concerning the 
 adequacy of water. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is no doubt about that; the Two Medicine 
 Eiver has a flow large enough to supply all the land, and there is 
 no doubt of the other fact. I was on the ditch and looked at it — on 
 Two Medicine Eiver, where the irrigation canal is too small to 
 supply the land which it was intended to cover and will always be 
 so. There is, in addition, this trouble with the ditch. It runs 
 through loose and porous soil, rocky in places, and it is likely to 
 slough away, and it would not get the water to the land on the lower 
 stretch without first having flooded or inundated the land above. 
 It will have to be patched and taken care of. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I notice that $75,000 of this amount is intended 
 to complete the Two Medicine Canal to its full capacity. 
 
 Senator Lane. No; they say it will cost as much again to go 
 through and build a canal of the proper size. To build this canal 
 will cost more than has already been expended, for the reason that 
 the head gates are in now and circumscribe the flow, and they would 
 have to be replaced after a while, and the ditch would have to be 
 enlarged at some points where it goes through. It has to be cut 
 through rock, and there is blasting to be done, and it will cost as 
 much again to complete that project. That is what they told me 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I call your attention to the specific statement 
 which I was reading. 
 
 Senator Lane (reading) : 
 
 It is estimated that an expenditure of $75,000 will be required to complete 
 the Two Medicine Canal system to full capacity. 
 
 Full capacity originally intended that it should be the full capacity 
 
 as now completed. 
 Senator Eobinson. I do not Imow what that means 
 
 Senator Lane. I understood him to say that the head gates cir- 
 cumscribed the flow. I think it will require $75,000 to complete it 
 up to the capacity of the head gates which are ^ow installed. 
 
 Senator Pittman. You will notice, on page 15, that construction 
 is made clear. It says : 
 
 The head gate is constructed sufficiently birge to supply 350 second-feet and 
 it Kroposef to enlarge the nu.ia c.nnl to its capacity at some future time. 
 
 The capacity referred to is larger at the head gate. 
 
 828.<!S— VOL 1—15 24 
 
370 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. The full capacity of 6,000 acres? 
 
 Senator Pittman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Lane. I was talking to these very gentlemen, or one of 
 the gentlemen who made this report, and I was told differently— that 
 it would require a double expenditure; that all these cuts would have 
 to be enlarged. I think he must have meant working it up to the 
 capacity of the gates and cuts under the dam. I suppose he meant 
 the head gate is large enough for full capacity, but the ditch below 
 it is not. That will have to be all gone over— miles and miles of it. 
 Is not that your understanding, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. My understanding is that this ditch will have to be 
 materially enlarged to provide for the land under the ditch. 
 
 Senator Lane. And lock gates made and all structures enlarged 
 below the main head gate, and that the cost will be nearly doubled, 
 or about as much again. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. About how much will that be? 
 
 Senator Lane. About $500,000 more, I am told. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No; I think you are mistaken there. Senator. The 
 total expenditure on that project so far has been $830,321.99. The 
 engineers believe that this ditch — from my reading of the report and 
 from the interpretation placed upon this report by the irrigation 
 section of the Indian Office — will require about $75,000 to increase 
 the capacity of the ditch. 
 
 Senator Lane. To full capacity? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; to full capacity. 
 
 Senator Lane. Its present full capacity? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. You will notice that paragraph 
 
 Senator Lane. There are a lot of leaks in it now that will have to 
 be patched up. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I call your attention to the paragraph which reads : 
 
 The head gate is constnictcil sufficieutly large to supply 350 i-'econd-feet, and 
 it is proposed to enlarge the main canal to its capacity at some future time. 
 This enlargement will nrohahly have to be done with steam shovels and will 
 lie expensive. The head gate and crossing under the Great Northern Railroad 
 .■ire of reinforced concrete. All other structures are of timber and constructed 
 to present canal capacity only. It is estimated that an expenditure of $75,000 
 will be required to complete the Two Medicine Canal system to full capacity. 
 
 The Chaieman. That is, of the head gate, 350 second-feet? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. I laiow I was talking with one of those identical 
 men on the ground, and he said it would cost about $1,000,000. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There can be no question about the adequate water 
 supply for this reservation, provided construction work is done 
 within a reasonable time. We are not so sure that the project as 
 originally contemplated by the Eeclamation Service, requiring the 
 expenditure of a total of $3,000,000, should be completed. We are 
 in favor of completing the present construction work done by the 
 Eeclamation Service and then attempt to get that irrigable land 
 cultivated. As it is now there are not 500 acres under that project 
 being cultivated, and we want to try out this land that has already 
 been prepared for cultivation and see if it is really agricultural land. 
 There is a good deal of contention on that point. We are only ask- 
 ing in this bill for an appropriation of $50,000 for the Blackfeet 
 Eeservation, and the matter of determining whether or not the en- 
 
INDIAK APPROPRIATION BILL. 371 
 
 tire $3,000,000 shall ultimately be expended can be settled at a later 
 date. 
 Senator Lane. You will notice on page 17 it says : 
 
 The total estimated cost of the complete unit as originally planned is $760,000 
 for 48,000 acres, or approximately $16 per acre. The total expenditure to date 
 Is $528,892.46. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They ha^■e expended a little o\'ev $800,000 on the 
 project. 
 Senator Lane. The report further states: 
 
 If no funds are made available for further work the present condition of the 
 system will deliver water for only about 6,000 acres. This would make the unit 
 cost for the area amount to $88 per acre for the acreage for which the canal as 
 at present constructed will supply water. 
 
 Senator Pittman. And then he says, in explaining the $75,000, to 
 complete it will make it cost $20 an acre. You save the difference 
 between $20 and $88. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is very important that we get the appropriation 
 to complete the present construction. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Meritt, is it the intention of the department 
 that we start back from the beginning and rearrange the whole man- 
 ner of bookkeeping with respect to these irrigation schemes ; that is, 
 crediting back to the Indians all sums that we have charged them up 
 to this date, and then, from this time, in the future keep the books 
 so that we will recoup ourselves from those who receive the land ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is practically the method that will be adopted. 
 It is not a difficult matter. We simply propose that each acre of 
 land irrigated shall bear its proportionate charge of the cost of con- 
 struction. If the land is owned by an Indian, the Indian will be 
 required to pay the construction charge for irrigating that land. If 
 it is owned by a white man, he will be required to pay the construc- 
 tion charge on that land, and the land itself will be held responsible 
 for this reimbursement to the Government. 
 
 Senator Page. So that eventually the Government is certain to be 
 reimbursed ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There is no question about the Government being re- 
 imbursed, because the land of the Flathead project— that is, the irri- 
 gated land— is worth easily $100 an acre, and the total construction 
 cost will be between $40 and $50 an acre, and there is nochance for 
 the Government to lose any money on this Flathead project. 
 
 Senator Page. You are talking about the Flathead project, on 
 which you say there has been spent $800,000 ? 
 
 Mr. 'Meeitt. On the Flathead project we have spent more than 
 $800,000. We have spent $1,214,578 up to June 30, 1913 
 
 Senator Page. How do you reimburse under that? Where is tlie 
 provision here to reimburse that sum ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The provision here reimburses the Indians to tne 
 extent of five hundred and some-odd thousand dollars for the amount 
 that has been taken out of the tribal fund to reimburse the g^tuity 
 appropriation heretofore made out of the Treasury and advanced by 
 the Government in the construction of these projects. Hereafter 
 the irrigated land itself will be held responsible f «r J^^^^^^^^J^f ^* 
 to the (Government for the cost of irrigating that land. We made a 
 very hard fight on this irrigation question at the last f^^^^^^}f^. 
 gress, becaufe we did not believe the projects were bemg financed 
 
372 ISTDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 on a fair and equitable basis. We have now come to the committee 
 with the report of the engineers, who sustain the position that I took 
 as far back as three years ago in a memorandum to Commissioner 
 Valentine, and the position we took before this committee last year; 
 and we have drafted the legislation along the line of our recommen- 
 dation heretofore. The engineers have sustained our position, and 
 we have legislation here that will be fair to the whites and will be 
 fair to the Indians and will enable the Government to construct that 
 project at a much earlier date than if it were continued to be financed 
 under the old system. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I would not like to have it understood from any- 
 thing that Mr. Meritt has said that in any fight that has been carried 
 on for this legislation he had any antagonism whatever from the 
 Montana delegation or any member of the Montana, delegation. In 
 fact, a year ago, Mr. Meritt and Mr. Sells called my attention to this 
 matter, and I immediately acquiesced in the suggestion that they 
 made at that time and expressed my earnest desire to assist ; so that 
 if Mr. Meritt has had a fight on the matter with anybody it has not 
 been with the Montana delegation. 
 
 The Chaiemak. Senator Walsh, you introduced a bill to correct 
 this. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I will say that Senator Walsh has cooperated with 
 the department to get this legislation which we are now recommend- 
 ing, and we appreciate his cooperation in the matter. 
 
 The Chaieman . This report of the commission urges the early pas- 
 sage of the bill introduced by Senator Walsh. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Meritt, I think I am a little dull in the matter 
 of getting at the bookkeeping of this proposition. You say you 
 propose to make this now a project in which the Federal Government 
 meets the bills and recoups itself by assessment upon those who take 
 the lands. Now you say there has been $1,200,000 paid in, and you 
 propose to credit back to the Indians $528,000. What is the status 
 of the other $600,000? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The entire amount heretofore appropriated by Con- 
 gress will be charged upon the irrigated lands, and this $500,000 
 that we ask to be appropriated to reimburse the Indians will simply 
 go back into the tribal funds of those Indians. The entire cost of 
 the construction work of the Flathead project, a million and a quar- 
 ter dollars, will be charged on the land irrigated, whether it is white 
 man's land or Indian land, and the Indians and whites will be placed 
 exactly on the same footing so far as reimbursing the Government for 
 the construction of this project is concerned. 
 
 Senator Page. Have not the other $600,000 been already charged to 
 the Indians in your bookkeeping? Have you not charged the sums 
 that have gone into that project to the Indians? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. If the existing law should not be amended, that would 
 be charged against the tribal fund of the Indians, and when the sur- 
 plus lands and timber are sold, and that money is, deposited in the 
 Treasury, it would be our duty to transfer that money under exist- 
 ing law to the Government and credit the Indians with the amount 
 reimbursed. But this legislation changes that. 
 
 Senator Page. Then all the legislation that has passed that says 
 we appropriate so much and so much is reimbursable and goes for 
 naught — we wipe that out by this legislation? 
 
INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 373 
 
 Mr. Meeitt We wipe it out so far as it makes it reimbursable out 
 of the tribal funds, and make it a charge on the lands irrigated and 
 each allottee is required to pay his pro rata share. 
 
 Senator Page. I simply Avanted to know the facts. I do not want 
 you to thmk from my suggestion that I am opposed to that legis- 
 lation, for I rather think I approve it. I wanted to understand it 
 that is all. ' 
 
 Senator Pittjia.n. Let me see if I understand this situation. 
 AA'hut you are attempting to do by this legislation is to start all over 
 again— just as you would with a new project— like all of our western 
 reclamation projects are transacted, giving the Indian who has 
 land there the same rights and the same pri\'ileges that the white 
 men have under the same kind of entries? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir.' 
 
 Senator Page. And making him no more responsible ? 
 
 Senator Pittjiax. Xo more and no less — just starting it over 
 again. 
 
 ^Ir. Meeitt. He is equally responsible with the white man under 
 the project. 
 
 Senator Pittmak. What is taken out of the tribal funds goes back 
 to the tribal funds, and the remaining cost becomes a cost on the 
 project and is apportioned to the Indians just as to the white men. 
 
 Senator Robinsox. If I remember correctly, in addition to that 
 provision there is contained in it an amendment that the Secretary 
 of the Interior has discretion to extend the time of payment to the 
 Indians in order to protect their rights? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; that provision is contained in this amend- 
 ment. 
 
 Senator Eobixsox. I do not see any objection to it. 
 
 The Chaieman. The question is on the adoption of the legisla- 
 tion as read by the chairman. 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to.) 
 
 Senator Groxna. I want to ask a few questions as I do not fully 
 understand the matter. We voted on it, but I want to ask the ques- 
 tion anvway. Mr. Meritt states that more than $1,000,000 have been 
 expended, and in this bill we appropriate from the Federal Treasury 
 more than $500,000, which would reimburse the Indians. Now, 
 Senator Page's question was what becomes of the other $600,000 
 which has been expended. It is not clear to me how the balance, 
 $600,000, is taken care of. i i - t 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is a charge on the land irrigated, and the In- 
 dians and the white men who have lands under that project wiU be 
 required to reimburse the Government for that construction cost. 
 
 Senator Grokna. But has not all of this money been taken from 
 the tribal funds? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; only $500,000. . , ^ , 
 
 Senator Geonna. The balance continues m the Treasury^ 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; that is a reimbursable appropriation. 
 
 Senator Mxees. Mr. Chairman, I understand that this amendment- 
 
 '' The^CHAiRMAX. That is unanimously agreed to and is now a part 
 
 of the bill. ,, . ,, 1 -iiQ 
 
 Senator Myers. The entire new matter in the bill( 
 The Chaieman. As read by the chairman this mornmg, yes. 
 
374 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 PURCHASE OF TRACTS OF LAND ON FLATHEAD RESERVATION. 
 
 Senator Myers. Now, there is one more Montana matter that I 
 desire to bring to the attention of the committee. It is not a pending 
 amendment, and it is not printed. It has come up by request of the 
 Secretary of the Interior. Mr. Meritt is here to speak for him, and 
 has been since the consideration of this bill began. I Avill try to ex- 
 plain it clearly in a very few minutes. 
 
 Senate bill No. 647, being a bill to amend an act entitled "An act 
 for the survey and allotment of lands now embraced within the 
 limits of the' Flathead Indian Eeser\ation, in the State of Montana, 
 and for the sale and disposal of all surplus lands after allotment," 
 approved April 23, 1904 (23 Stat. L., p. 302), as amended by the act 
 of March 3, 1909 (35 Stat. L., p. 796), as follows: 
 
 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
 of America in Congress assembled, That section eleven' of the act of April 
 twenty-third, nineteen hundred and four (Thirty-third Statutes at Large, page 
 three hundred and two), entitled "An act for the survey and allotment of lands 
 now embraced within the limits of the Flathead Indian Reservation, in the State 
 of Montana, and the s:ile and disposal of all surplus lands after allotment," 
 amended by the act of March third, nineteen hundred and nine (Thirty-fifth 
 Statutes at Large, page seven hundred and ninety-six), be, and the same is 
 hereby, amended so as to read as follows : 
 
 " Sec. 11. That all merchantable timber on said lands, returned and classified 
 by said commission as timber lands, shall be sold and disposed of by the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior, for cash, under sealed bids or at public auction, as the 
 Secretary of the Interior may determine, and under soich regulations as he 
 may prescribe: Provided, That after the sale and removal of the timber such 
 of said lands as are valuable for agricultural purposes shall be sold and dis- 
 posed of by the Secretary of the Interior in such manner and under such 
 regulations as he may prescribe: Provided further. That lands valuable for 
 agricultural or horticultural purposes, heretofore classified as timber lands, 
 may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be appraised under regu- 
 lations prescribed by him and be opened to homestead entry under the general 
 provisions of section nine, upon condition that homestead entrymen shall at 
 time of making their original homestead entries or before final proof thereon, 
 at the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, pay the full value of the 
 timber on the land entered as fixed by the appraisement commission, such pay- 
 ment to be in addition to the appraised price of the lands, apart from the 
 timber, as herein authorized." 
 
 It was considered by this committee and favorably reported, or 
 ordered reported out. It is now on the calendar, No. 650. It was 
 reported out last summer some time — the latter part of the sum- 
 mer — and is now on the calendar. In brief, it is a bill to enable the 
 settlers on the Flathead project, either whites or Indians, to buy at 
 the appraised value isolated tracts of timber. It has already been 
 appraised by fair and impartial appraisers, I take it, appointed by 
 the Government — isolated tracts not large enough to draw the at- 
 tention of sawmill men and people in the manufacture of lumber, 
 and is sold to settlers at the appraised value — simply isolated tracts 
 of their land, that they may have plenty of firewood and fencing, or 
 even to put up a little sawmill to make some lumber for their neigh- 
 borhood needs. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What area does the bill provide? 
 
 Senator Myers. Eighty or 160 acres; whatever the allotment is. 
 It is highly recommended by the Interior Department. It was con- 
 sidered by this committee at which there was quite a fair attend- 
 ance, and, I think, was unanimously reported out. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIAIION BILL. 375 
 
 The Chairman. Was it referred to a subcommittee « 
 
 Senator Mti:rs. No; I think it was decided by the full committee. 
 Senator Walsh and I Avere both here and argued in favor of it the 
 greater part of one whole afternoon. I Imow Senator Gronna was 
 m favor ot it; I know that Senator White was here and voted for 
 it; Senator Lane was here and, I think, voted for it; Senator Clapp 
 was here and voted for it. In fact, I do not think there was a dis- 
 senting vote after it was fully explained. 
 
 But it is now on the calendar, and you know the condition of the 
 calendar. There is no chance to get any minor legislation through 
 at this session, apparently. Secretary Lane has written me a letter 
 in which he is very much in favor of the measure and thinks it will 
 be of much benefit to both the white and Indian settlers, and he 
 wants me to try to get it on as an amendment to the Indian appro- 
 priation bill. 
 
 The Chairman. Have you his letter there? 
 
 Senator Myers. I have the letter and the report and will read 
 everything in full to this committee. The committee has already 
 passed on this bill. The committee has once given this bill its 
 stamp of approval unanimously, I think ; I do not think there was a 
 dissenting vote, and Senator Walsh and I explained it for two or 
 three hours one afternoon. 
 
 Now, this is the report of the Senate committee, which I will 
 read: 
 
 The Committee ou Indian Affaii-s, tn which wns referrerl Senate bill 647, 
 entitled "A bill to amend an act entitled 'An act for the survey and allotment 
 of lands now enibrnced within the limits of the Flathead Indian Reservation, in 
 the State of JXontana. and the sale and disposal of all surplus lands after 
 allotment,' approved April 23, 1904 (33 Stat. L., p. 302), as amended by the 
 act of March 3, 1909 (35 Stat. L., p. 796)," begs leave to report as follows: 
 
 This bill Is a flepartmental bill, and was drawn by and introduced at the 
 request of the Interior Department. It has the hearty approval both of the 
 Interior Department and the Indian Bureau of said department. It was first 
 introduced at the instance of the Interior Department, in the Senate of the 
 Sixty-second Congress and referred to the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs — 
 
 That is true. It came from the Interior Department, and I intro- 
 duced it by request — 
 
 In accordance with custom, it was thereupon referred by said committee to the 
 Interior Department for its opinion and recommendation thereon. In response, 
 the Secretary of the Interior wrote to the chairman of the committee as 
 
 follows : 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, April 26, 1912. 
 
 Hon. EoBEET J. Gamble, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affair.'^. United Statc.t Senate. 
 
 Sie: By direction of the Tresident I have the honor to transmit herewith a 
 draft of proposed legislation. , v,„.v, «=,+„„/!!,,„ 
 
 The purpose of the proposed legislation is to authorize the homesteading^ 
 under sp3conditlons%f lands, heretofore classified as timberlands, situated 
 within the Flathead Indian Reser^-ation, Mont. nnr,r>,i«pmpiit- 
 
 The act of April 23 1904 (33 Stat. L.. 302 . provided for the appiaisement 
 and sale of hf surplus lands^f the Flathead Indian f ^XiflfatfoHnd 
 6 and 11 of this act contained specific provisions as to the classification ana 
 sarof he°tlmber,ands" The classification a-ul appraisement --in-si^n wh.eh 
 was organized November 8, 1907, under authority of this act, submitted 
 final report under date of December 16, 1908. g^ 
 
 The general Indian appropriat on act for the year 1910 (35 Stat.^L.^ ^^^ 
 796) amended section 11 of the act of Apiii -j, iJu*, S'O 
 
376 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 sale of timber apart from the land and provided for tlie sale of lands valuable 
 for agricultural purposes after tbe removal of tlie timber. As this act was 
 passed subsequent to the time when the classification and appraisement was 
 made, and as the act of April 23, 1904. required that the appraisers classify 
 as timberlands all lands which were more valuable for their timber than for 
 any other purpose; lands which were undoubtedly of agricultural value after 
 the timber was removed were classified as timberlands. 
 
 Because of an increased demand for agricultural lands since the time of the 
 appraisal the present agricultural ^•alue of some of these lands is doubtless 
 greater than the value of the timber upon the same. Upon certain of these 
 lands settlers have squatted. Some of thi<se settlers allege that they have acted 
 in good faith, urge that an error has been made in the classification of the 
 lands, and request that a reclassification be made of lands containing relatively 
 small amounts of timber and having agricultural .value. There is no specific 
 legislative authority for a reclassification of any of the lands returned by the 
 appraisement commission as timberlands. 
 
 It is undoubtedly true that the annnal value of the agricultural crops which 
 may be produced upon some of the lands classified as timberlands will in the 
 near future greatly exceed the annual increase in value of the timber standing 
 upon the same. The immediate disposal of such lands would provide a direct 
 revenue for irrigation and other purposes and would contribute to the general 
 welfare of the Indians' through the development of the Flathead country. Under 
 the present law all the timber upon any tract must be sold and removed before 
 the land can be sold. Attempts by the department to make rather large sales 
 have not been successful, and as there appears to be no market at present for 
 small isolated tracts of timber it is practically impossible to open timberlands 
 to beneficial agricultural use, as was evidently contemplated by the amendment 
 to the act of April 2.3, 1904, supra, as contained in the act of March 3, 1909 (35 
 Stat. L., 781, 796). 
 
 The department believes that the most practicable solution of this matter will 
 be the enactment of legislation which will authorize the homesteading of timber- 
 lands of agricultural value upon condition that the homesteader pay, at the 
 time of his original entry, the full appraised value of the timber upon the land 
 entered. The draft of proposed legislation which is transmitted herewith mod- 
 ifies section 11 of the act of April 23, 1904, supra, as amended by the act of 
 March 3, 1909, supra, by the addition of the words : 
 
 "Provided further, That lands valuable for agricultural or korticultural pur- 
 poses, heretofore classified as timberlands, may, in the discretion of the Seci'e- 
 tary of the Interior, be appraised under regulations prescribed by him and be 
 opened to homestead entry under the general provisions of section niue, upon 
 condition that homestead entrymen shall at time of making their original home- 
 stead entries pay the full value of the timber on the land entered, as Sxed by 
 the appraisement commission, such payment to be in addition to the appraised 
 price of the lands apart from the timber as herein authorized." 
 
 The enactment of such legislation would enable the department to open to 
 agricultural entry timberlands having agricultural value whenever it appears 
 that the best interests of the Indians would be served by such action. 
 
 The department would be pleased to see legislation of this character enacted. 
 Respectfully, 
 
 Walter L. Fisheh, Hccretary. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. May I interrupt you to make a suggestion in 
 order that you may have it in your mind ? 
 
 Senator MrEES. Certainly. 
 
 Senator Eobinsok. I see that this commission which investigated 
 this reclamation project, on page 39, paragraph 8, recommended the 
 repeal of the act of 1912 relating to the classification and appraise- 
 ment of timberland, and gives the reason for that change. They 
 say, among other things : 
 
 We recommend the act of 1912 which relates to the classification and reclassi- 
 fication and appraisement and reappraisement of the timberlands on the Flat- 
 head Reservation be repealed, as this act, in our opinion, encourages entrymen to 
 make application for the reappraisement of lands even after filing and making 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 377 
 
 final proof, and lu iiddition to this it will eventually mean the destruction ot 
 the timber which makes the mountains so valuable as watersheds and elimi 
 nates the necessity for additional storage of water for irrigation. 
 
 I simply call your attention to that. 
 
 Senator MrEES. I do not think that conflicts with this bill, for the 
 reason which I will give you, and I will try to be brief. The com- 
 mittee says : 
 
 The bill was favorably reported by the committee to the Senate of the Sixty- 
 second Congress, but for lack of oppertunity and owing to the crowded condi- 
 tion of the calendar failed to reach a vote on its passage. 
 
 It was again Introduced In the Senate of the Sixty-third Congress and re- 
 ferred to the Committee on Indian Affairs. In accordance with custom, it was 
 by that committee referred to the Interior Department for its opinion and 
 recommendation and, as before, the Interior Department indorsed it and recom- 
 mended its passage, as is shown by a letter, below set forth, from the First 
 Assistant Secretary of the Interior, as follows : 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, March 21, 19H. 
 
 Hon. HENRT F. ASHtTRST, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Mt Dear Senator: I have the honor to refer to the letter of February 10, 
 1914, requesting a report on Senate bill 647. 
 
 This bill is the same as legislation which was suggested by the department 
 in letters of April 26, 1912, to the chairmen of the Committees on Indian AfCairs 
 in the United States Senate and in the House of Representatives. The legis- 
 lation then suggested was introduced as Senate bill 6624 and as House bill 
 23881, Sixty-second Congress, second session. 
 
 In letters of July 29, 1912, to the chairmen of the committees in both the 
 Senate and the House the department urged the passage of this legislation and 
 the matter was again presented to both committees by departmental letters of 
 January 27, 1913. 
 
 The department would be pleased to see this legislation enacted. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, First Assistant Secretary, 
 
 The committee concludes by saying : 
 
 The timber on the Flathead Reservation belongs to the Flathead Indians, and 
 they are entitled to the proceeds of the sales thereof. Provision is made by 
 existing law for selling the timber where it stands in considerable quantities, or 
 good-sized tracts, at public auction to the highest bidder. The reservation is 
 not, however, throughout its entiie area a heavily timbered country. There are 
 many isolated and straggling, small tracts of timber consisting of only a few 
 trees or a few clumps of trees at long distances from other timber. The laud 
 was classified by law and order of the Department of the Interior, and many 
 tracts of land containing small bunches of standing timber were classified as 
 timberland. These tracts can not be homesteaded because not classified as 
 agricultural land. On the other hand, the timber on them can not be sold 
 because not in sufficient quantities to attract buyers. Timber dealers, lumber- 
 men, sawmill operators, and other timber buyers will not bid on small isolated 
 tracts of timber, and there is no sale for sucii. Therefore, this timber is doing 
 nobody any good— neither whites nor Indians— and the land is standing idle 
 and doing nobodv auv good. Tender the present state of the law these isolated 
 small pieces of timber will never be utilized, and nobody will get any good of 
 them. This bill authorizes the .'Secretary of the Interior, in his discretion, upon 
 iipplieation, to permit such tracts of land, where valuable for agriculture as 
 well as timber, to be reclassified .i.s ajiricultural land and to be homesteaded, 
 and permits the homesteader, in the discretion of the Interior Department to 
 be allowed to purchase the standing timber on his homestea.l tract at the 
 appraised valuation thereof, and in addition to paying for the land to pay the 
 appraised value of the standing timber thereon at the time of making his home- 
 stead entry or prior to making final proof, as the Secretary of the Interior 
 may direct. AH such tracts of timber have been appraised. Thus these tracts 
 of land will be utilized and the timber realized on, which has not and could 
 
378 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 not be done hei-etofore. \yiiite settlers will get tlie benefit of the laud and 
 tlie Indians will get tlie benefit of tlie payments for both land and timber 
 
 The committee recommends that the bill be amended by inserting after the 
 word " entries " and before the word " pay " in line 22 of page 2 of the printed 
 bill these words : " or before final proof thereon, at the discretion of the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior," and as so amended the committee recommends that the 
 bill be passed. 
 
 Senator Page. Who was the committee that made that report? 
 
 Senator Mtdrs. It is the Indian Committee; this committee made 
 that report. 
 
 Senator Paoe. But that was a report from a special committee, was 
 
 it not? 
 
 Senator Myeks. No; it was done by the full committee m regular 
 session, and there was a large attendance. 
 
 Now, as I say, by that action this committee has given its approval 
 to that bill. It was thoroughly discussed and argued here late last 
 summer. Senator Page, you had gone up to New England on account 
 of illness in your family, or for some other family reasons, and you 
 were not here; but a majority of the committee, I think, was present. 
 
 As I say, the committee has put its appro^•al on it. It is on the 
 calendar but stands no chance of getting through this session. I 
 am in receipt of the following letter from the Secretary of the Inte- 
 rior, dated Interior Department, January 18, 191.5 : 
 
 OEPARTilENT OF THE iNTEUlOli, 
 
 Washington, Jauiiniy JS. 1915. 
 
 My Dear Senator : In further reference to the matter of the reclassificatiou 
 and reappraisement of certain lands within the former Flathead Indian Reser- 
 vation in Montana which was presented in your letter of October 14, 1914, 
 and subsequent correspondence with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, I 
 have the honor to advise you that it is the belief of the department that the 
 most satisfactory solution of the difficulties which are being encountered there 
 will be the enactment of legislation which will authorize the homesteading of 
 tracts upon which the amount of timber is comparatively small and the land 
 fit for agricultural uses. 
 
 Legislation of this character which -was recommended by the department in 
 1912 was introduced in the Sixty-Second Congress as Senate bill 6624 and 
 House bill 23881, but was not passed. The same legislation was proposed in 
 Senate bill 647 of the Sixty-Third Congress, which was introduced by yourself. 
 In a reconsideration of the matter it has appeared that this legislation could 
 be improved, and the form has been recast. The amended form reads as 
 follows : 
 
 " That section eleven of the act of April twenty-third, nineteen hundred and 
 four, (Thirty-third Statutes at Lame, page three hundred and two,) entitled, 
 'An act for the survey and allotment of lands now embraced within the hmits 
 of the Flathead mdi.in Reservation, in the State of Montana, and the sale 
 and disposal of all surplus lands after allotment,' amended by the act of 
 March third, nineteen hundred and nine (Thirty-fifth Statutes at Large, page 
 seven hundred and ninety-six), be, and the same is hereby, amended so as to 
 read as follows : 
 
 " Sec. 11. That merchantable timber on said lands, returned and classified 
 by said commission as timber lands, may be sold by the Secretary of the In- 
 terior, under such regulations as he may prescribe, and after the sale and 
 removal of the timber such of said lands as are valuable for agricultural or 
 horticultural purposes shall be sold or opened to homestead entry by the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior in such manner and under such regulations as he may 
 prescribe : Provided, That lands valuable for agricultural or horticultural pur- 
 poses, heretofore classified as timber lands, may, in the discretion of the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior, be appraised and opened to homestead entry under regula- 
 tions prescribed by him, upon condition that homestead entrymen shall at the 
 time of making their original homestead entries, or before final proof thereon, 
 at the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, pay the full value of the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 379 
 
 timber found on tUe laud at the time that the appraisemeut of tlio laud Itself 
 Is made, such paymeut to be iu addition to the appraised price of the lands 
 apart from the timber, as herein authorized." 
 
 I should be pleased to see this item included in the Indian appropiiation bill 
 for the fiscal year 1916. 
 Cordially, yours. 
 
 I'^RANKHN K. Lank 
 Hon. H. L. Mtebs, VriHed States Senalc. 
 
 Senator Gronxa. Without desiring to suggest to you, I think you 
 had better thresh out thoroughly what is in the committee now. I 
 find on page 39 of the report that we have before us that this com- 
 mittee does oppose this legislation. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. You mean that commission? 
 
 Senator Gronna. Yes. I want to read that. It is as follows : 
 
 We do not believe the proposed amendment to section 11 of the act of .March 
 3, 1909, which provides for the opening to entry the timber Inuds on the Flat- 
 head Reservation, should be enacted into law. >Sncli a law would mean that 
 the homesteader could divest the land of its valuable timber after filing and 
 making his second payment with the results as stated above. 
 
 We earnestly recommend as being for the best interest of the Indians and 
 in the interest of good administration, that the United States purchase the 
 timber lands on the Flathead Reservation not otherwise allotted or reserved, 
 and that the same be made a part of the national forest under the supervision 
 of the National Forestry Service. By so doing the timber will be cut under 
 proper supervision and the watershed will be preserved and the run-off of 
 the streams having their sources in the mountains will not occur so early 
 each year as to make necessary the providing of additional storage for irriga- 
 tion, and the Indian property ad.iacent to the forest will be more amply pro- 
 tected from destruction by fire, because of the fact that the Forestry Service 
 Is better equipped for this purpose. 
 
 Now, Senator Myers, I simply want to bring this to your attention, 
 because it is better to discuss it here than leave ^it until we get on the 
 floor of the Senate. 
 
 Senator Robinsox. That is the matter that I called his attention 
 to, but I did not read all of it. 
 
 Senator Mters. As far as that is concerned, I am opposed to put- 
 ting any more land out there in forest reserves. I would rather the 
 whole legislation should be defeated. But this committee has gone 
 on record that this bill. No. 647, is a proper one in its opinion, and 
 I would rather the whole thing should fail than to create any more 
 forest reserves out there. 
 
 Senator Page. What is the objection to forest reserves? 
 
 Senator Mters. Because it withdraws land from settlement, and 
 it does, in many instances, no good. There is too much land m- 
 cluded in forest reserves and withdrawn. I do not object to forest 
 reserves that are legitimate and within reasonable scope, but we have 
 too many forest reserves in Montana now. What do you think 
 about that suggestion, Senator Walsh? I am referring to what they 
 C3,ll forest reserves 
 
 Senator Walsh. I would not have the slightest objection, as far 
 as I am concerned, to making it a forest reserve rather than an 
 Indian reservation, but I will state to you gentlemen that the propo- 
 sition is simply impossible-that is, the proposition that is "rpd feat 
 the Government buy this timberland from the Indians m the F at- 
 head Indian Reservation. I do not suppose you ^ouW buy this tim- 
 berland for $2,000,000. It is a question whether you,^^"**^,^^,^"; 
 and put two or three million dollars into these lands and put that 
 
380 INDIAN APPEOPIJIATION BILL. 
 
 amount of monev now into the tribal funds and then make a forest 
 reser\'e out of it." I think the matter could be handled properly. My 
 own private opinion about the matter is that it could be handled as 
 a forest reser^■e very much better, so far as the interests of the set- 
 tlers are concerned, than it can be under this action under which 
 we are now endeavoring to administer it. For instance, take this 
 land to which this particular bill refers. You can drive up Flat- 
 head Lake on the west side, which is a beautiful country, as beauti- 
 ful as you ever looked at. The timber breaks out into parks every 
 once in a while. It is on the west side, with a slope to the east and 
 the south. It is an ideal fruit country. There are half a dozen little 
 towns along the lake there and little orchard regions back of each 
 town. The boats run up and down the lake and take up from docks 
 right along the fruit every morning during the summer. I mean 
 small fruit, berries and that kind of thing, taking them from one 
 end of the lake to the other. All of these lands, except such as are 
 beyond the reservation, were classified as timberlands. 
 
 NoAV the fact about the matter is that there is only here and there 
 a little clump of timber. The balance is open park country — prairie 
 country. It is a most unfortunate thing for the Indians that that 
 is classified as timber land, because when somebody goes to buy timber 
 there eventually he Avould not want to buy that; because when a 
 man goes to buy timber he buys it in a body. In the Flathead Val- 
 ley the farmers do not cut down the timber that has stood in that 
 way, and they are raising grain crops. You will find in that country 
 magnificent pine trees right out in the meadows with their grain 
 fields. They leave them there because they make the thing look 
 beautiful, and they will do the same thing here. The man who wants 
 timberland would not buy that land at all. 
 
 The purpose of this bill was that it could be classified. The Sec- 
 retary could take 160 acres of that or 80 acres of it, so he will let the 
 men homestead themselves, he paying the value of the timber that is 
 on it in addition to farming. If that was a forest reserve you would 
 not need any legislation of that kind. The Department of Agricul- 
 ture is authorized at any time upon application to set apart any part 
 of the forest reserve and allow homestead entry of it to be made, 
 care being taken about the timber; so that if you made a forest 
 reserve of that you would not need this legislation. But any man 
 who wanted to enter a tract of that land would go to the Forest 
 Service and say, " It is very much more valuable for agricultural 
 purposes than for forestry purposes ; I ask that it be set aside, and I 
 be allowed to locate a homestead on it," and it would be done. 
 
 As far as I am concerned I would rather have that system than 
 the one we are trying to secure here. But as I said, it is simply 
 chimerical to ask Congress to appropriate two or three million dollars 
 to purchase this forest land from the Flathead Indians and make a 
 forest reserve out of it. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Senator Myers, if this amendment is agreed to 
 would it enable the Secretar}' of the Interior to sell all of this so- 
 called timberland ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. I would like to ansA^er that question, Senator 
 Robinson. The Flathead Indian timberlands are on the high range 
 of mountains; they tower iij) 12,000 feet high; they are quite pre- 
 cipitous in their slope; that is, they are not like foothills, but they 
 
IISTDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 381 
 
 rise boldly out of the vallev that you are endeavoring to irrigate 
 by this bill. Now we protect the foothills by these parks, as I have 
 intimated to you, but when you get beyond that you reach the region 
 without soil at all; the trees just grow right up out of the rocks and 
 that continues until you eventually pass the timber line. So I 
 undertake to say that no Secretary would declare this land up on the 
 sides of the mountains to be agricultural lands. They are not agri- 
 cultural lands in any sense at all. You could not cultivate them. 
 It is only the lower land at the base of the mountains that would be 
 affected by this measure. The Secretary would sav, "These can be 
 cultivated if you take some of this timber: vou could then culti- 
 vate it and raise crops on it.'' 
 
 Senator Robinsox. Have you any idea how man^' tracts there 
 would be ? 
 
 Senator Walsh. Along Flathead Lake — that is the only region I 
 can speak of from personal knowledge — I do not know, but I would 
 not undertake to say that you could buy any ordinary stretch that 
 you can think of now and dispose of one-fourth of the area that is 
 now classified as timberlaiid under the provisions of this bill. 
 
 Senator Mxees. One objection I had in my mind with regard to 
 making this a forest reserve is the difficulty of getting agricultural 
 land withdrawn from forest reserves for opening. My informa- 
 tion comes from people that it is extremely difficult to get tlie de- 
 partment to allow any land to be withdrawn from forest reserves. 
 They seem to be very jealous of keeping the forest reserves intact 
 and it is almost impossible to get any of them set aside. That is 
 the complaint of the settlers. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The complaint is also made that there are 
 large areas of land that have never grown timber and can not grow 
 timber that has been classified as forest lands. The complaint is 
 also made that in many sections of the West there are large areas of 
 land that have never grown timber and will not produce timber that 
 have been classified as forest lands and thrown in the national forests. 
 
 Senator Mters. Yes. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I had pointed out to me last summer some 
 very large areas of land that were said to be reserved in the national 
 forests, which at no time, practically, did they get any timber on 
 them. 
 
 Senator Mters. That is the complaint, Senator. 
 
 Senator Robinson. And they did not appear to me to be capable 
 of producing timber. . 
 
 Senator Mtees. They get these forest reserves and will not part 
 
 with them. . .^^ mi -i j 
 
 The Chairman. You know why they go into it? ihe railroad 
 companies own an immense quantity of land that they could not 
 operate unless they had a haversack, and they say, "You let us trade 
 this land an-d you will get a speculative value out of it 1 hey have 
 390,000 acres of forest land in Arizona which would not produce 
 enough timber to build a fire with. The company selected in heu 
 of thit land some of the finest land m the State. It was the grandest 
 and most notorious steal ever perpetrated in the world. . 
 
 Senator Myers. After the report of this investigation committee 
 on that point I will say that I do not know how it was constructed 
 
382 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 or constituted, but it was authorized to investigate that part of the 
 
 Flathead Eeservation . 
 
 Senator Page. Do you know the personnel o± this investigating 
 
 committee? i, ■ , t i i ^ 
 
 Senator Myers. They were read here. I do not think 1 know but 
 one of them. Mr. Meritt, will you please read them again? 
 
 Mr Meeitt. They are the three superintendents of the reservation, 
 C. B. Lohmiller, Arthur E. McFatridge, Fred C. Morgan; W. S. 
 Hanna, superintendent of irrigation; L. M. Holt, superintendent of 
 irrigation; and Henry W. Dietz, supperintendent of irrigation. 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Morgan is the only one I know. I regard him 
 as a very fair man from what I know of him. 
 
 Senator Page. This was a unanimous report, was it not? 
 
 Senator Myers. I understand that there was no dissent. 
 
 Senator Page. It was appointed by action of this committee, or 
 was it by action of Congress ? 
 
 Senator Myers. It was by authority of Congress. 
 
 Senator Page. When was this report made? 
 
 Senator Gronna. It is the same committee and the same report 
 that was made recommending the legislation that we just passed 
 upon. 
 
 Senator Myers. Of course if the committee wants to apropriate 
 several million dollars to buy all that timber I do not know that I 
 would have any very strong objection. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. This committee is not creating any forest re- 
 serves, of course. 
 
 Senator Myers. If this committee wants to pay several million dol- 
 lars for that timber the money will go into Montana and I do not 
 know that I Avould have any very great objection though I do not 
 like the plan. 
 
 & Senator Eobinson. When was this timberland appraised, do you 
 know? 
 
 Senator Myers. Do you know, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It was appraised several years ago. 
 
 Senator Walsh. I want to inquire of Mr. Meritt if he knows what 
 the appraised ^alue of the lands of the Flathead Eeservation ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Between four and five million dollars for timberlands. 
 
 Senator Myers. That is what you would have to appropriate. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. This paragraph on page 39 is as follows: 
 
 We recommend the act of 1912 which relates to the classiflcation and reclassifi- 
 cation and ui>praisemeut and reappraisement of the timberlands on the Plat- 
 head Reservation be repealed, etc. 
 
 I read that a while ago. It refers to the act of 1912. What I 
 wanted to knoAV was whether these lands were appraised or reap- 
 praised — the timberlands that we propose shall be affected by this 
 amendment under that act — whether they were reappraised under 
 that act, and if so what the average appraisement of tHe land was? 
 
 Senator Walsh. I can answer that. The act of 1912 does not apply 
 to the Flathead Eeservation. It is a general act providing for reap- 
 praisement of land on any Indian reservation; is that true, Mr. 
 Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Walsh. And the act was made under the act opening the 
 Flathead Eeservation ? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 388 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It ^Yas April 23, 1904, and it is found in 33 Statutes, 
 page 304. Section 11 of that act reads as follows : 
 
 Sec. 11. That all of said l:mds returned and classified by said commission as 
 timberlands shall be sold and disposed of by the Secretary of the Interior under 
 sealed bids to the highest bidder for cash or at public auction, as the Secretary 
 of the Interior may determine, under such rules and regulations as he may 
 prescribe. 
 
 If I may make the statement here, Mr. Chairman, we are of the 
 opinion that that is exceedingly poor conservation legislation which 
 permits the sale of the timber and the land. 
 
 We hare prepared this report since the report of the engineers sub- 
 mitted here, and atc believe there is not a material conflict between 
 the report of the engineers and the proposed legislation we are ask- 
 mg, for the simple reason that this legislation here will affect pri- 
 marily the land that is valuable for agricultural and horticultural 
 purposes. There is a large part of that land which has been classified 
 as timberland, which in truth and in fact is more valuable for horti- 
 cultural and agricultural land than for timber purposes. You will 
 notice that the interests of the Indians will be fully protected under 
 this proposed legislation which we ask be enacted as a substitute for 
 section 11, which I have read. 
 
 This proposed legislation reads: 
 
 That section eleven of the act of April twenty-third, nineteen hundred and 
 four (Thirty-third Statutes at Large, page three hundred and two), entitled 
 "An act for the survey and allotment of lands now embraced within the limits 
 - of the Flathead Indian Reservation, in the State of Montana, and the sale and 
 disposal of all surplus lands after allotment," amended by the act of March 
 third, nineteen hundred and nine (Thirty-fifth Statutes at Large, page seven 
 hundred and ninety-six), be, and the same is hereby, amended so as to read as 
 follows : 
 
 " Sec. 11. That merchantable timber on said lands returned and classified by 
 said commission as timberlands may be sold by the Secretary of the Interior 
 under such i-p!j:ulatioiis as he may prescribe; and after the sale and removal of 
 the timber such of said lands as are valuable for agricultural or horticultural 
 purposes shall be sold or opened to homestead entry by the Secretary of the 
 Interior in such manner and under such regulations as he may prescribe : Pro- 
 vided, That lands valuable for agricultural or horticultural purposes heretofore 
 classified as timberlands may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, 
 be appraised and opened to homestead entry, under regulations prescribed by 
 him, upon condition that homestead entrymen shall at the time of makmg their 
 original homestead entries pay the full value of the timber found on the land at 
 the time that the appraisement of the land itself is made, such payment to be 
 In addition to the appraised price of the lands apart from the timber, as herein 
 authorized." 
 
 As it is now there is valuable horticultural and agricultural land 
 within this forest reservation which is not open to homestead entry, 
 and it is also quite valuable for timber purposes. If we can get 
 this legislation that we are now asking we can open up that tiorti- 
 cultural land and get full value for the land and also full value for 
 what timber is on the land, and at the same time this legislation 
 will enable us to handle this forest land there along conservation 
 lines. We will not be compelled to sell all the timber upon those 
 
 mountain slopes. , . ,, „+;„v> 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What I want to ask you is the same question 
 I asked Senator Myers a while ago-whether or not u^der this 
 legislation you could, if you wanted to, sell all the timber on the 
 reservation ? 
 
384 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr iSlEEiTT. We could under this legislation sell every foot of 
 merchantable timber, but the Secretary of the Interior would not 
 permit that to be done. We would not permit all the timber to be 
 sold. We would simply sell such parts of it as might be valuable, 
 considering the timber and the watershed on the mountains. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Of course, you do not know what the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior will do. The personnel of the Secretary's office 
 might be changed to-morrow, and he might construe that into a more 
 or less mandatory provision requiring him to sell. Administrative 
 offices often construe " may " as mandatory. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Of course, administrative offices are governed by 
 public opinion, as are Members of Congress, and at this day no 
 Secretary of the Interior would sell all the timber on a watershed. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The point I make is this: What is the use of 
 authorizing him to do something that he does not intend to do and 
 that he could not do except in defiance of public opinion ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We simply want authority to sell as much of this 
 merchantable timber as may be deemed desirable, and also authority 
 to open up this land that is valuable for agricultural ,and horti- 
 cultural purposes, and at the same time get for the Indians the value 
 of this land for agricultural purposes, and, in addition to that, the 
 value of the timber on the land. 
 
 Senator PiTTriiAX. I want the Senators of this committee to realize 
 that the Department of the Interior and the Indian Commissioner, 
 ■nhich has charge of these reservations, are asking no more authority 
 or discretion than is granted to-day to the forestry department. 
 The forestry department has authority to sell timber on reserves. 
 It is understood that the forestry department will not sell the young 
 timber — immature timber. It is understood they will use their best 
 judgment in picking out this tree, and that tree, and another tree 
 which is about to die and fall dovrn, and sell it. In other words, it 
 is understood they Avill sell timber on the forest reserves which will 
 not injure that reserve as a watershed. That power is granted to 
 the forestry department to-day. There is no more requested by the 
 Department of the Interior in this bill than is granted in that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. In the forestry legislation are there some 
 restrictions with regard to their selling only the matured timber? 
 
 Senator Pittman. I do not remember that that is statutory. I 
 know that it is a rule and a regulation that they will not sell the 
 immature timber; that they shall pick out the matured timber and 
 sell it. I do know that the ^ery theory of it is to protect the water- 
 shed. What I 3)11 getting at is, if that be true, whether it be by rules 
 and regulations or statutory, the same motives would naturally urge 
 the Secretary of the Interior in taking care of the Indian lands as 
 would urge the Department of Forestry. 
 
 In other vrords, we can not assume — at least, I would not assume- 
 that there is any different motive actuating the Forestry Depart- 
 ment than the Department of the Interior in looking after the In- 
 dian lands and looking after the watersheds. We may have to as- 
 sume, as the Senator from Arkansas (Mr. Robinson) says, that per- 
 haps the Department of the Interior might violate that discretion 
 and destroy a great watershed. But there are a great many different 
 things that our officers may do under discretion which will be a 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 385 
 
 violation, but we have found it necessary to grant some discretion 
 somewhere. \^ e have got to trust to the intelligence and honesty 
 of some one. 
 
 As to this other proposition, the Forestry Department is vested 
 with the power of segregating agricultural land and forest reserves 
 and throwing it open to homestead entries. They find a little 
 valley m a forest reserve which is suitable for homestead entry, and 
 upon the application of a homesteader they hare it investigated. 
 If they think it is a good place for a bona fide homestead they elimi- 
 nate it from the forest reserve and allow it to be homesteaded. 
 They do not make the homesteader pay for what little timber may 
 be on there. Does this bill grant any greater power to the Secretary 
 of the Interior than is granted to the Forestrv Department on forest 
 reserves? It does not grant him as much. He says he may eliminate 
 it from Indian land and open it to homestead entry just the same as 
 the Forestry Department may do. But it goes further, and it says 
 on condition that the timber be paid for in a certain time by the 
 homestead entryman. That is not done under the forestry reserve 
 law. In other words, the Department of the Interior has charge of 
 the Indian lands. The Department of the Interior has charge of 
 forest land. It is to be assumed that the management of one de- 
 partment will be just as honest as the other. Practically all that is 
 being asked by this bill here is that the Secretary of the Interior 
 be granted the same discretion as is granted to the Department of 
 Forestry. I can not understand why they should say, " Take away 
 a part of the control of these Indian lands from the Department of 
 the Interior and transfer it to the Forestry Department." I can not 
 see any reason for it. If this law is not sufEciently stringent in the 
 protection of the forests on those v,-atersheds, why, make it so. I 
 think, though, that it will be put in practice just the same as the 
 other forests of the country are. 
 
 Senator Eobinsox. Is there anything in this amendment relating 
 to watersheds or the conservation of timber on that reserve? 
 
 Senator PrrriwAK. Jfo ; there is not. 
 
 Senator Robinson. This amendment contemplates the disposal oi 
 the timber. It authorizes the sale of every foot of the timber. 
 
 Senator Pittman. Not this amendment. I beg your pardon. The 
 general act does. We are dealing with two separate things. The 
 committee recommends the repeal of the act giving authority to sell 
 all the timber. That is one recommendation. We are not dealing 
 with that in this amendment. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I am not talking about that, either. I am 
 talking about the amendment which the Secretary of the Interior 
 has proposed in his letter to Senator Myers. ' , . -, 
 
 Senator Pittman. This only applies to agricultural lands. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. And this only applies to merchantable timber— not 
 to all timber, but to merchantable timber. 
 
 Senator Pittman. But the amendment before us only applies to 
 agricultural lands, and in its application it is identical with the 
 power granted to the Forestry Department. , , ., ■, ,,„,, 
 
 Senator Eobinson. You and Mr. Meritt differ about it, and you 
 agree with Senator Walsh. I read this language as warranting a 
 
 82833— TOL 1—15 25 
 
386 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 sale of merchantable timber on any land on that reservation that 
 had been classified as timberland. 
 
 Senator Walsh. Let me say, Senator Eobinson, that you are now 
 speaking about the provisions of this bill which simply reenact the 
 provisions of the original act of 1904. There is no change in that. 
 Down to the second proviso it is just exactly as it is in the original 
 act of 1904. Under the act of 1904 opening the reservation, the 
 Secretary of the Interior was given authority to dispose of all tim- 
 berland on the reservation. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. And this amendment gives him the same au- 
 thority. 
 
 Senator Walsh. It simply continues it. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I just simply wanted to understand the amend- 
 ment. I was not discussing the policy of the legislation at all. I 
 was simply asking whether this legislation would allow of the dis- 
 posal of ail timberland on that reservation. Mr. Meritt says it does, 
 and I say it does, too. 
 
 Senator Pittman. I am talking about the proposition that is being 
 urged by Senator Myers. That is, with regard to agricultural lands. 
 While this bill contains a reenactment of the general proviso, I am 
 not discussing that. I am saying that might be repealed or not, 
 and it is immaterial to me. But, as far as the agricultural land is 
 concerned in this timber belt, it should be treated just the same as 
 agricultural land is treated in forest reserves. That is, if the de- 
 partment having charge of it believes it is more valuable for agri- 
 culture they might allow it to be eliminated from the forest, just as 
 the Forest Department treats similar land. To that part of it I 
 think there should be no question. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, as I pointed out in my opening state- 
 ment, section 11 is different from this legislation that we propose. 
 Section 11 of the existing law requires us to sell the timber and the 
 land together. In our proposed amendment we want authority to 
 open up the land that is valuable for agricultural and horticultural 
 purposes, and also authority to sell the merchantable timber on the 
 other land. We do not intend to sell all the timber on that reserva- 
 tion, just simply the merchantable timber. We will sell it along 
 conservation lines, the same as the Forest Service sells it. We will 
 maintain that watershed and dispose of the merchantable timber 
 and open up the lands that are valuable for agricultural and horti- 
 cultural purposes. 
 
 Senator Page. May I ask you a question. Senator Myers? 
 
 Senator Mters. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. We have appointed a commission here. To me 
 there is something quite formidable in this commission when they 
 all unite in a unanimous report against this measure. 
 
 Senator Myers. Let me ask you this question : They report in favor 
 of the Government buying all this timber. Will you offer as a sub- 
 stitute here and now that we appropriate in this bill about $5,000,000 
 for the Government to buy all this timber ? 
 
 Senator Page. No ; I will not. 
 
 Senator M:i':ees. We should either take what we recommend or 
 what they recommend. 
 
 Senator Page. They make a statement, and they make a recom- 
 mendation. Now we come in on an ex parte statement, without the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 387 
 
 ^ Slightest attempt from anybody to speak for the other side, and we 
 _ attempt to set aside the imannnous recommendation of the superin- 
 ■ tendents on these reser\ ations I'ln^ supeim 
 
 nrfnrS'oo^nnn'-/^f r* "' *"^'" "'""; '-'^''"■^- I ^'^^'-^ to appro- 
 priate $0,000,000 for the Government to buy all the timber 
 
 Senator La x^ollette. We might not agree that the thing to do is 
 to make an appropriation to purchase that land in accordance with 
 their recommendation, but we might all of us feel very much im- 
 pressed with the suggestion that the preservation of that timber 
 as a protection to an irrigation scheme which we have adopted and 
 put into this bill IS a ^•ery important matter. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That, as I understand it, is Mr. Meritt's sug- 
 gestion, that IS carried in the amendment which he proposes, that the 
 Secretary of the Interior will so administer it as to take care of that. 
 
 Senator Mtees. If we are going to adopt that suggestion in one 
 thing, why not m both, and adopt their method of preser\'ing it as 
 long as they report favorably on preserving it? ' 
 
 Senator Page. Why should we not have somebody come in here 
 Hud represent the other side of the case, that we may get both sides. 
 
 Senator Mi-ers. Of course yon referred to an ex parte statement 
 awhile ago. It is not my ex parte statement. It is the ex parte 
 statement of Mr. Lane, the Secretary of the Interior, if it may be 
 so denominated. 
 
 Senator Page. Yes ; that is right. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, if I may disclose some inside office 
 and department information, I will say that this legislation was 
 drafted by a man who is a graduate of a forestry school and is 
 very heartily in favor of conservation of timber. We had a con- 
 ference in the office on this very legislation that is now under dis- 
 cission, and it was drafted so as to protect the watershed, that irri- 
 gation project, and at the same time utilize that timber along con- 
 servation lines and open up only the lands that were valuable for 
 horticultural and agricultural purposes and which is not considered 
 valuable for timber purposes. 
 
 Senator Mtees. It seems to me that the committee ought not, just 
 because one commission recommends one thing and the Department 
 of the Interior another thing, and just because they may be different, 
 to say that we will not do either. It seems to me they should figure 
 out which is the best plan and have one or the other. If you think 
 that report is the best plan it ought to be adopted ; if not, then the 
 other ought to be adopted. If it always results, where one commis- 
 sion recommends one thing and the Department of the Interior some- 
 thing else, that nothing is going to be done, it is a very dangerous 
 precedent. In order to get the matter before the committee I will 
 make a motion, and I will say in doing so that after a conference 
 with my Colleague, Senator Walsh— and I will say that he has been 
 just as much interested in the matter as I have and gives his hearty 
 approval to this bill and amendment as I do. He appeared before 
 the committee in the summer and argued for it just as strongly as 
 I did. 
 
 I received this letter only a few days ago, and I have been very 
 hurried since then. I saw it was practically the same thing, but 
 did not thoroughly acquaint myself with the little points of differ- 
 ence. After reading this letter over carefully and noting the points 
 
388 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 of difference — and, by the way, this amendment seeks to get at the 
 same thing as mjr bill, only with very slightly different variations. 
 After reading this letter over carefully and noting the points of 
 difference and conferring with my colleague. Senator Walsh, we are 
 both of the opinion that my original bill here is preferable to this 
 amendment suggested by the Secretary of the Interior. I will show 
 you the differences and why we think so. 
 
 My bill, which, by the way, has been approved by the committee 
 and is now on the calendar, simply reenacts and carries forward 
 without change the existing law about the sale of merchantable tim- 
 ber in large tracts. It amends section 11 by adding in some new 
 matter, but repeats the old matter, which is this, to wit : 
 
 Sec. 11. That merchantable timber on sp.id lauds, returned and classified by 
 said commission as timberl.-iuds, shall be sold and disposed of by the Secretary 
 of the Interior for cash, under sealed bids or at public auction, as the Secretary 
 of the Interior may determine, and under such regulations as he may prescribe. 
 
 That is the law now; this carries it forward; it retains that, 
 whereas this amendment proposed by Secretary Lane reads : 
 
 Sec. 11. That merchantable timber on said lands, returned and classified by 
 said commission as timherlands, may be sold by the Secretary of the Interior 
 under such regulations as he may prescribe. 
 
 It leaves out " by sealed bids or public auction." It leaves out the 
 factor of competitive bidding to the highest bidder, to realize as 
 much as possible. It leaves that out and says, " under such regula- 
 tions as he may prescribe." I retain that. Senator Walsh and I 
 believe it would be better to retain that. Then there could be no 
 complaint that the timber was undersold, or anything of that kind. 
 
 Another thing that is in my bill is that the entryman shall pay 
 the appraised price of the timber at the time of entering the land, or 
 before final proof thereon, at the discretion of the Secretary of the 
 Interior. 
 
 Secretary Lane's proposed amendment just makes it at the time of 
 entry and leaves out " before final proof at the discretion of the Sec- 
 retary." Senator Walsh and I believe that on these two points of 
 difference my bill is better than the proposed amendment of the 
 Secretary. I am not criticizing the Secretary's proposed amend- 
 ment critically. If the committee does not see fit to put my bill on 
 as an amendment, then I would like to see it put Secretary Lane's 
 amendment on the bill. I do not think there is very much difference 
 between the two in principle. It is just a little different in ideas and 
 wording on some little points. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Does your amendment affect the right to sell 
 timberlands as such ? 
 
 Senator Mtees. No ; it leaves it just as it is now. 
 
 Senator Robinson. This amendment segregates the timber from 
 the land and authorizes the sale of the merchantable timber ? 
 
 Senator M-joees. Do you mean my bill ? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. No ; I mean the departmental amendment. 
 
 Senator Mtees. There is another point of difference in that amend- 
 ment — 
 
 That merchantable timber on said lands, returned and classified by said 
 commission as timberlands, may be sold by the Secretary of the Interior, under 
 such regulations as he may prescribe, and after the sale and removal of the 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 389 
 
 timber such of said lands as nre valuable for agricultural or horticultural pur- 
 poses shall be sold or opened to homestead entry by the Secretary of the 
 Interior in such manner and under such regulations as he may prescribe. 
 
 Well, my bill provides that, too. That is not a point of difference. 
 They are both identical on that. The two points of difference I have 
 mentioned are the only points of difference that I can find. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Senator Myers, can you off-hand state the differ- 
 ence in the authority between this proposed amendment and the 
 authority which the Forestry Bureau has over a forest reserve as to 
 the sale of timber ? 
 
 Senator Mters. I do not think there is any, substantially. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You state that there is not? 
 
 Senator Myers. No ; 1 can not do it with entire accuracy. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, would you object to having a proviso there 
 that all bids may be rejected by the Secretary of the Interior if he 
 thinks there has been collusion ? 
 
 Senator Mters. This just carries forward and reiterates the pres- 
 ent law as it is. It does not change that one iota. I was not after 
 that when I drew the bill. I say "I." The department was not 
 after it. 
 
 Senator Page. Leaving aside the present law, would there be any 
 objection to including in this bill some proviso somewhere — it might 
 not be specified, but if the department believed there was collusion 
 regarding these bids — giving it power to reject them? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Would you object to it when it would remove an 
 objection to the bill? 
 
 Senator Myers. I do not think I would. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Then why not say so? 
 
 Senator Myers. What do you think about it, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We would have no objection. 
 
 Senator Myers. But I think there is a parliamentary way of get- 
 ting at this thing. I am going to offer an amendment. If any- 
 body wants to amend the amendment we can vote on that first. 
 
 Senator Page. I must vote against your motion unless it is fixed 
 so as to protect all interests. 
 
 Senator Myers. Will you make that as an amendment to an 
 amendment ? 
 
 Senator Page. I am not an attorney. 
 
 Senator Myers. Is there any other member of the committee who 
 wishes to offer that as an amendment to the amendment ? Senators 
 La FoUette and Clapp are lawyers 
 
 Senator La Follette. I am going to offer a substitute for yours 
 when you get through. 
 
 The Chairman. What amendment do you offer now. Senator, 
 your own bill ? 
 
 Senator Myers. I offer my bill as it is as an amendment — Senate 
 bill 647. 
 
 The Chalrman. The Senator from Montana moves that Senate 
 bill No. 647, heretofore reported from this committee, be made a 
 
 part of this bill. , . xt. j? i 
 
 Senator La Follette. I offer as a substitute for that the tol- 
 
 lowing : 
 
 That lands valuable for agricultural or horticultural purposes, heretofore 
 classed as timberland, may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, 
 
390 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 be appraised and opened to homestead entry under regulations prescribed by 
 bim upon tbe condition that homestead entrymen shall, at the time of making 
 their original homestead entries, pay the full value of the timber found on the 
 land at the time that the appraisement of the land itself is made, such payment 
 to be in addition to the appraised price of the lands apart from the timber as 
 herein authorized. „ „„, , ^ ,^ • ,. ^ 
 
 And that section 11 of chapter 1495, laws of 1904, be, and the same is hereby, 
 
 repealed. 
 
 That will prevent the sale of any timber under the existing law 
 for the present, and will open to such action as the Secretary of the 
 Interior thinks is necessary, under the discretion vested, the dis- 
 posal of lands valuable for agricultural purposes. In the face of 
 the recommendation from this commission which we have adopted 
 with regard to this very important irrigation project, meaning the 
 expenditure of very large sums of money preservation of this tim- 
 ber is very important in providing a watershed in connection with 
 this irrigation plant. I think, as far as the committee would go 
 at this time is to provide for the disposal of these agricultural 
 lands, and at another session we may be better informed as to what 
 we should do with the balance of that timber. It might be that the 
 merchantable timber there should be sold, but it seems to conflict 
 with the recommendation of the gentlemen who have made an in- 
 vestigation of this irrigation plant, which has so impressed the 
 committee that they have acted upon it, authorizing a very large- 
 expenditure of money. And, as far as I am concerned, I can not 
 brush aside their recommendation. 
 
 The Chairman. What do you propose to repeal ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I propose to repeal section 11, which is a 
 direction to the Secretary of the Interior to sell all this land. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think the amendment which the department 
 has proposed is better than the existing law, because the existing law 
 authorizes them to sell all of the lands and timber, and this segre- 
 gates the timber from the lands, and provides that only the mer- 
 chantable timber shall be disposed of. So that I would favor this 
 amendment unless this section is to be repealed. 
 
 Senator Pittman. Wait a moment. Senator La Follette, you have 
 two subjects now contained in your amendment. Senator Myers 
 had two subjects. I have been trying to get them segregated. You 
 segregated very nicely there with regard to agricultural lands, but 
 you tack onto it a repeal of the general law of selling timber. If 
 you could just follow it right up with a separate amendment, we 
 could discuss that question separately; it seems like all of us could 
 vote for your amendment as it stands, without the repeal 
 
 Senator Eobinson. His amendment is simply the proviso in the 
 departmental amendment 
 
 Senator Pittman. I understand exactly what it is. I thoroughly 
 agree with it, except the repeal that he adds on. 
 
 The Chaieman. Perhaps some Senators would not vote for it 
 without the repeal. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. They can put that in a separate motion. The 
 repeal has nothing to do with this part of it. The repeal has to do 
 with the other part. This provision here simply deals with agri- 
 
INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 391 
 
 cultural lands. I do not think any of us doubt the wisdom of allow- 
 ing the becretary of the Interior to open up agricultural lands for 
 homesteading upon the payment of the value of the timber. I think 
 we will all agree on that. We might not agree on repealing the other 
 part of the act If you could put them in separate motions we could 
 get a vote on the whole thing. There is no reason why it should be 
 included in this same amendment, that I see. 
 
 Senator Myers I amended my amendment by inserting after the 
 word prescribed,' on page 15, these words: "with power in him to 
 reject all bids if m his opinion there has been any collusion by or 
 between bidders." So it will read as follows : 
 
 That all merchantable timber on said lands, returned and classified by said 
 commission as timberlands, shall be sold and disposed of by the Secretary of 
 the Interior, for cash, under sealed bids or at public auction, as the Secretary 
 of the Interior may determine, and under such regulations as he may prescribe 
 with power m him to reject all bids if in his opinion there has been any collu- 
 sion by or between bidders. 
 
 Senator Page. Would you not just as soon have it read, "if in 
 his opinion the interests of the Indian are fully protected " ? 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes; I will make it that way. How is that — 
 "if in his opinion it would be to the better interest of the Indians "? 
 
 ' Senator Page. Well, I do not know 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes ; that would be sufficient — " if in his opinion 
 it is in the interest of the Indian that he reject such bid." 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from Montana amends his original 
 motion, and, without objection, the amendment to the amendment 
 will be agreed to. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It seems to me that what we ought to do is to give 
 the Secretary of the Interior the same power as the Forestry Bureau 
 has over forest reservations. 
 
 Senator Pittman. I agree with you. Senator Clapp, and right in 
 line with that is the reason why I want Senator La FoUette's amend- 
 ment separated. I have the law here that governs the Forestry De- 
 partment in the same matters. I want to put it right in, so it will 
 be exactly the same. 
 
 Senator Myers. My amendment reads, " with power in him to reject 
 all bids if in his opinion it would be in the interest of the Flathead 
 Indians so to do." 
 
 Senator La Follette. Now, I offer my substitute in this form, 
 instead of as I presented it to the committee a moment ago. I make 
 it read : 
 
 That section 11 of the act of April 23, 1904 (33 Stat. L., p. 302), entitled 
 "An act for the survey and allotment of land now embraced within the limits 
 of the Fathead Indian Reservation, State of Montana, and the sale and dis- 
 posal of all surplus lands after allotment," amended by the act of March 3, 1909 
 (35 Stat. L., p. 796), be, and the same is hereby, amended so as to read as 
 follows : 
 
 "Sec. 11. That lands valuable for agricultural or horticultural purposes 
 heretofore classified as timber lands may, in the discretion of the Secretary of 
 the Interior, be appraised and opened to homestead entry, under regulations 
 prescribed by him, upon condition that the homestead entrymen shall at the 
 time of making their original homestead entries pay the full value of the timber 
 
392 INDIAK APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 found on the land at the time that the appraisement of the land itself is made, 
 such payment to be in addition to the appraised price of the lands apart from 
 the timber, as herein authorized. 
 
 Senator Mtees. That would repeal all about the sale of the other 
 timber, would it not ? Let me look at that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I will read just what that will repeal, in 
 order that the committee shall understand it. 
 
 Section 11 as it now reads, and for which this is proposed as a 
 substitute, or an amendment, reads as follows : 
 
 That all of said lauds returned and classified by said commission as timber- 
 lands shall be sold and disposed of by the Secretary of the Interior, under 
 sealed bids, to the highest bidder, for cash, or at public auction, as the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior may determine, under such rules and regulations as he 
 may prescribe. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That not only permits him to sell the timber- 
 lands, but it requires him to do so. He has not even the discretion 
 to sell the lands. He is compelled to do it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes; and I think the recommendation of 
 this commission upon whose report we have acted this morning 
 should impel us to repeal that section and to substitute instead for it 
 that which I have read. 
 
 Senator Mtees. Senator La Follette, this amendment, then, would 
 make it read as follows 
 
 Senator Clapp. It leaves the merchantable timber out except on 
 the homesteads. 
 
 Senator Robinson. It in effect withdraws from sale the timber- 
 lands — purely timberlands — and permits the sale of timber on lands 
 that are valuable for agricultural and horticultural purposes. I am 
 in favor of the amendment suggested by Senator La Follette. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And it gives us a little time to look into this 
 purely timberland matter, which the commission thinks is so im- 
 portant to the irrigation project. Perhaps at another session 
 
 Senator Pittman. I doubt if it makes any difference in the next 
 week or month. They are not selling timber up there, anyway. 
 
 Senator Mters. You provide that the payment be made at the 
 time of entry. It does not give any discretion to the Secretary of 
 the Interior as to the time of the final proof ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I just adopted 
 
 Senator Robinson. One reason is to prevent those people who 
 come in and enter those lands from asking a reclassification in ac- 
 cordance with some former classification. 
 
 Senator Mtees. Senator Walsh and I, when the bill was up in the 
 summer, made a very hard fight for that provision providing that he 
 might either pay at the time of making the entry or at any time up 
 to final proof, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior. We 
 felt that we had gained a very good point in favor of justice to the 
 people there, considering the conditions. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I will undertake to say that the Secretary of 
 the Interior will not be more than able to work out what is covered 
 by that proviso by the time we have another bill before us. 
 
 Senator Myees. Senator La Follette, your amendment leaves out 
 the privilege which may be granted to the settler in the discretion 
 of the Secretary of the Interior, of making partial payments, or 
 
INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 393 
 
 and iust amendn^ent, bL^sflot otp^^e't'oV^^^^^^ 
 can not pay all the money for the timber at onfe ^ 
 
 ■ 1 i""^ ^^ EoBiNSON. Suppose there is valuable timber on those 
 
 thf TntdofS' t?: ^f '1 ^'' ^^^ P^^^ion of the Secretary of 
 toe interior and the Secretary of the Interior might require him 
 to put up a bond. It is m his discretion and powef BuT here™ 
 many a poor man who goes on there who has not the moneyto pay 
 
 SLht'cut"^mffpfff ^T" '* '\'''^' ^' "^^kes his entry Lt^SJ 
 might cut a little off and pay as he goes along, under conditions im- 
 posed by the Secretary of the Interior. The Secretary mS 
 "Here you may cut off so many feet, and you pay for that before' 
 you cut any more-pay m partial payments. I ^iU give you up 
 un il the time of final proof to make all your payments, or you may 
 pay for your timber as you remove it." Many a man would get 
 the timber that way who could not pay all the money down in cfsh 
 at the time he makes the entry. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. It is to prevent the possibility of anybody 
 making an entry and cutting the timber off of it. If you permit 
 Inm to pay for the timber as he cuts it, he can do the very thing 
 that IS sought to be prevented here. 
 
 Senator Myers. It is prohibited by saying that it is in the dis- 
 cretion of the Secretary of the Interior. He must make applica- 
 tion to the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. You do not want to have the Secretary of the 
 Interior sending inspectors out there to inspect each one of these 
 cases. 
 
 Senator Mtees. They have forest rangers and riders on the 
 ground. They have men right there. 
 
 Senator La Follijtte. This provision. Senator Myers, is exactly 
 in the form that you proposed it when you first began to make your 
 remarks to the committee. 
 
 Senator Mtties. Yes; but I say, after thinking it over and con- 
 sulting with my colleagues, we believe that my bill better serves the 
 purposes than the one sent in by the Secretary of the Interior, on 
 two grounds. And that was one of them. I offered my bill with 
 that in it. I believe you are making a mistake. I believe you are 
 working a hardship and an injustice to many settlers. I believe 
 there will be very few who will be able to pay right at the time of 
 making entry. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Can you give me an idea of what the timber on 
 those isolated tracts would be worth ? 
 
 Senator Myehs. It is not very much. In some instances it may be 
 worth $100 or $200. It might run up to $1,000 on some few claims. 
 I doubt if it runs over that. That is merely my idea, Senator. I 
 have no accurate knowledge on the subject. It is small in most 
 cases. It is only designed for straggling isolated tracts of timber 
 on lands where the land is more valuable for agriculture than timber. 
 It is true that provision was not in the bill when it was sent down 
 here by the Secretary of the Interior to be introduced, but when it 
 
394 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 came before the committee we discussed it thoroughly, and that 
 amendment was put in by the committee, which gives that the ap- 
 proval once of the committee. I think that is an objectionable fea- 
 ture to Senator La FoUette's substitute. 
 
 Another thing I want to ask is, what is the object ot repealmg . 
 this general law making it mandatory for the sale of that timber! 
 The Secretary has not sold it all yet. It does not mean he must 
 t:ell it all in a day or a year. It means under such regulations as he 
 may prescribe. If it does not bring what he thinks it should bring, 
 he does not have to sell a stick of it. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. I am not sure of that, under that provision. 
 
 Senator Myers. It says, " under such regulations." 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The provision is mandatory that he shall re- 
 ceive bids and sell it to the highest bidder. 
 
 Senator Mters. Wliy Avas it not sold long ago, then ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. For some reason or other the department has 
 not seen fit to carry out the mandatory provision of the law. It 
 may have been in the interest of the Indians on that reservation. It 
 may be for some other reason. The Secretary could not have been 
 criticized if he had carried out the instructions of Congress in that 
 act. But I am not sure that he has not done the best thing by failing 
 to do it, although I, of course, believe that when Congress enacts a 
 law an administrative officer should carry it out. 
 
 Senator Mtees. " Under such rules and regulations as he may pre- 
 scribe." 
 
 Senator Robinson. Of course, when Congress enacts a law it 
 means that he shall proceed with reasonable dispatch to carry out 
 the provisions of the law. That is, in my judgment, a reason for 
 the repeal of it. 
 
 Senator Mtees. But, Senator Robinson, he may make as one of 
 those regulations — very wisely, if he is a just man — that no timber 
 shall be sold for less than what he deems to be its actual worth. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is the reason it may not have been sold — 
 that nobody would pay that for it. 
 
 Senator Myers. I would like to ask Mr. Meritt, as the representa- 
 tive of the Indian Bureau, What do you think of the idea of abolish- 
 ing and abrogating that law which Congress has enacted, which has 
 stood for several years, for selling that timber at auction to the 
 highest bidder under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of 
 the Interior may prescribe? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think section 11 of the act of 1904, referred to by 
 Senator La FoUette, should be repealed, because it is clearly against 
 all ideas of modern conservation of timber. It requires the depart- 
 ment to sell the timber and the land together on a valuable water- 
 shed there, and if it is sold together it would be sold primarily for 
 the timber on the land, and they will skin the timber off of the land 
 and then leave just the barren land. 
 
 Senator Myers. Section 11 of the old law as it now stands says: 
 
 That all merchantable timber on Raid lands returned and classified by said 
 commission as timberland shall be sold and disposed of by the Secretary of the 
 Interior, for cash, under sealed bids or at public auction, as the Secretary of 
 the Interior may determine, and under such regulations as he may prescribe: 
 Proridcd, Thiit after the sale and the removal of the timber such of said lands 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 395 
 
 as are valuable for agricultural purposes shall be sold and disposed of by the 
 Secretary of the Interior in such manner and under such regulations as he may 
 prescribe. 
 
 It does not say that the land and the timber must be sold together. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Senator, you are not reading from the law. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Section 11 of the existing law reads as follows : 
 
 That all merchantable timber on said lands returned and classified by said 
 commission as timberlands shall be sold and disposed of by the Secretary of the 
 Interior under sealed bids to the highest bidder, for cash, or at public auction, 
 as the Secretary of the Interior may determine, and under such regulations as 
 he may prescribe. 
 
 Now, this provision in the existing law, section 11, requires the 
 Secretary to sell the lands. It carries with it the timber on the lands, 
 of course. The amendment which was originally suggested by the 
 department contemplated a segregation of the timber from the land, 
 and a permission from the Secretary to sell the merchantable timber, 
 and in that respect it is better, in my judgment, than the existing law. 
 Under section 11 he is directed and commanded to sell by sealed bids 
 or at public auction. That means that under such regulations as he 
 may prescribe he must offer these lands for sale to the highest bidder, 
 either at auction or receiving sealed bids therefor ; and he has no dis- 
 cretion ; he can not adopt any regulations if he complies with this law 
 that will prevent him from selling that timberland at any price that 
 some one is willing to pay for it. There is not a provision in that 
 law which gives the Secretary any discretion whatever in the manner 
 of making the sale or in the amount that is offered for the lands. If, 
 for instance, he offered a tract of 1,000 acres of timberlands under 
 that section and received bids therefor and the bid was $500, he 
 would be compelled to sell the land. The sooner we get it off the 
 statutes the better. The fact that the Secretary has not carried it out 
 may have conserved the interests of those Indians and may have pre- 
 vented the disposal of a very large area of timberlands for a nominal 
 
 price. , •■• i 
 
 Senator La Foli.ette. It was a little bit too salty a proposition to 
 
 DP PXPOUtpQ. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I am not in favor of Congress making laws, 
 and then leaving it to the discretion of administrative officers whether 
 they shall enforce them. I think the duty devolves upon Congress 
 and this committee to determine discretionary matters, so far as they 
 can, and not put upon the members of the Cabinet or other admmis- 
 trative officers the responsibility of saying that Congress lias passed 
 a bad law under which frauds may be perpetrated, or causing great 
 loss to persons, and that therefore they will not ^a^I «"* ^j^^ P™" 
 visions of an act of Congress. That is the reason I favor the repeal 
 
 "^lenatTr M™. I see that the Secretary «* ^^f ^^f^Xs MlfSfd 
 
 ing down his original suggestion, which is embodied m this bill, did 
 
 make some slight alteration in it. He provides- 
 
 That merchantable timber on said lands -turned aj.i '^^^l^^^^^' 
 
 mission as timberlands, may lie sold by tne iseLifun;! 
 
 such regulations as he may prescribe. 
 
 And then he goes on to say, that "after tl^^/^^J^J^fj^S^rLr 
 the timber such of said lands as are valuable for agncultuiai or 
 
396 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 
 
 ticultural purposes shall be sold or opened to homestead entry by the 
 Secretary of the Interior in such manner and under such regulations 
 as he may prescribe." 
 
 I see that he makes a slight differentiation m this amendment he 
 sends down, and makes some change from that. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. May I just make this suggestion to you in the 
 interest of getting along with the matter? I do not believe there 
 is an objection on the part of anybody here to the provision which is 
 suggested, and which is a part of the departmental recommendation 
 opening up such lands as are suitable for that purpose to horticul- 
 tural and agricultural entry under the conditions stated in there, 
 except the objections you have made as to the time of payment for 
 the timberlands. It is apparent that for some reason section II is 
 not being carried out by the Secretary of the Interior. It has been 
 on the statutes since 1904. For 10 years the Secretary of the Interior 
 has disregarded a mandatory provision in the statutes regarding the 
 sale of these lands. He has violated his instructions by Congress. 
 The reason for it does not appear in the record here, but we ought 
 to either repeal that section or ascertain why it has not been carried 
 out. 
 
 Senator Myees. I say that I, in this amendment, offer a very mate- 
 rial change from that law. I would make it read : 
 
 That all merchantable timber on said, lands, returned and classified by said 
 commission as timberlands, shall be sold and disposed of by the Secretary of the 
 Interior for cash, under sealed bids or at public auction, as the Secretary of 
 the Interior may determine, and under such regulations as he may prescribe, 
 with power in him to reject all bids if, in his opinion, it be in the interest of 
 the Flathead Indians so to do. 
 
 It puts it in that amendment and makes it optional with him. It 
 also puts in this amendment here that he may pay in the discretion 
 of the Secretary of the Interior at any time before final proof. 
 
 Senator Page. But, Senator, you still say that he shall sell. You 
 do not leave any discretion. He must sell. 
 
 Senator Myers. I am not so particularly championing that. That 
 is not my idea. This was sent down by the Interior Department. I 
 am changing it only so much as it seems to me it ought to be changed. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The matter in this discussion has undergone a 
 process of evolution, I think. What I was trying to suggest to you 
 was that by the adoption of the amendment suggested by the Senator 
 from Wisconsin [Senator La FoUette] you would consummate your 
 original and real purpose, unless you think that the provision that 
 you have suggested with reference to the time of paying for the 
 timber is of such importance 
 
 Senator Myers. I do think that is of importance. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. As would make it objectionable to you. 
 
 Senator Myers. I offer this amendment as amended. As I under- 
 stand, Senator La FoUette offers a substitute. 
 
 ^ The Chairman. The question is on the substitute proposed by the 
 Senator from Wisconsin. 
 
 Senator Gronna. The Senator from Arkansas [Mr. Eobinson] 
 stated my position much better than I could state it. I believe that 
 section 11 of the law should be repealed. I am in favor of the sub- 
 stitute proposed by the Senator from Wisconsin, but I believe there 
 is great merit in the suggestion of the Senator from Montana [Mr. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 397 
 
 Myers] that the settler ought to be given a chance to make partial 
 payments. I can see no danger in allowing the Secretary of the 
 Interior accepting partial payments. That is in the interest of the 
 poor man, and it is the poor man that takes up these lands. Any 
 man who has enough money to go on there and pay for that timber 
 does not go on that land for the purpose of living on it. That has 
 been my experience. I want to vote for Senator La Follette's sub- 
 stitute, but I hope the Senator will amend it so that the Secretary of 
 the Interior may accept partial payments. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It will be open to amendment if it should 
 be adopted, and I shall be glad to accept any amendment to it that 
 can be worked out that the dejiartment will agree can be adminis- 
 tered without opportunity for fraud. 
 
 The Chairjian. The question is on the adoption 
 
 Senator Pittmax. Just a moment here. The question has been 
 asked by the Senator from Arkansas [Mr. Eobinson] why this has 
 not been enforced by the department. I think it is apparent why it 
 has not been enforced, because it has been obnoxious to our ideas of 
 conservation to enforce it, and it will simply go as an evidence of 
 the Department of the Interior's intention with regard to all these 
 matters. I think the recommendation that the Secretary of the In- 
 terior has made in this bill to sell the merchantable timber and not 
 the land is an effort upon his part to arrive at the same practice as 
 now is pursued by the Forestry Department. Let me read briefly 
 what the Forest Department is authorized by Congress to do in ex- 
 actly similar cases. That is where they have jurisdiction over the 
 forests as the department has jurisdiction over this forest. It is as 
 follows, found in United States Statutes at Large, volume 30, 1897 : 
 
 For the purpose of preserving the living and growing timber and promoting 
 the younger growth on forest reserviitions, the Secretary of the Interior, under 
 such rules and regulations as he shall prescribe, may cause to be designated 
 and appraised so much of the dead, matured, or large growth of trees found 
 upon such forest reservation as may be compatible with the utilization of the 
 forests thereon, and may sell the same for not less than for appraised value in 
 such quantities to each purchaser as he shall prescribe, to be ued in the State 
 or Territory in which such timber reservation may be situated respectively, 
 but not for export therefrom. Before such sale shall take place notice thereof 
 shall be given by the Commissioner of the General Land Office for not less than 
 60 davs, by publication in a newspaper of general circulation, published in the 
 county in which the timber is situated, if any is therein published, and if not, 
 then In a newspaper of general circulation published nearest to the reservation, 
 and also in a newspaper of general circulation published at the capital of the 
 State or Territory where such reservation exists ; payment for such timber to 
 be made to the receiver of the local land office of the district wherein such 
 timber may be sold, under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the 
 Interior may prescribe: and the moneys received tberefrom shall be accounted 
 for by the receiver of such land office to the Commissioner of the General Land 
 Office in a separate account, and shall be covei;ed into the Tref my Such 
 timber before being sold shall be marked and designated and shall be cut and 
 removed under the supervision of some person appointed for t^at pui-pose by 
 the Secetary of the Interior not interested in the purchase or remmal of such 
 tunber nor in the employment of the purchaser ^f ?,°*; ^,.^"f,^7Sffice and to 
 make report in writing to the Commissioner of the G^'^ei'}! Land Oft^^^^^ 
 the receivcer of the land office in which such reservation shall be located ot ms 
 doings in the premises. . 
 
 That is the proviso that governs the Forestry Department in the 
 sale of timber. It has proven to be a very wise f «^i«io^-/* !i^/ 
 been utilized for the benefit of the forests ; it ^as been found neces^ 
 sary to remove certain timber from the forests for the purpose ot 
 
398 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 protecting the young growth. When the trees become old and are 
 prepared to die or fall dowp it is necessary to the preservation of 
 the growing timber that they be cut down and removed. Such a 
 pro\'ision is essential in the forests in these Indian reservations as 
 much as it is in any other reserve, and undoubtedly the Secretary of 
 the Treasury in suggesting the amendment that he has to-day, that 
 he be allowed to sell the merchantable timber as distinguished from 
 the land, had such a thing in view, and I believe that for the proper 
 supervision over the forests of these Indians in that reservation that 
 some such provision should be made as that. It is essential to the 
 protection of that watershed. You will notice in this proviso here 
 that it does not require the Forestry Department to sell the timber 
 for cash. It is not sold for cash ; it is sold on a stumpage basis as 
 a general thing. It is marked, sold, and paid for on the stumpage 
 basis. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You know the expense of operating the forest 
 reserves made necessary by. some of the detailed methods of admin- 
 istration have been so great that it has in the minds of some men 
 who earnestly favor conservation discredited the entire forest-reserve 
 system as now being operated. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is whj^, Senator Robinson, that wherever we 
 take the property of the Indians and deal with them on the con- 
 servation basis of the forest reserve we ought to estimate the value 
 of that timber entrusted to the Indian tribe ; then we alone suffer for 
 the extravagances or mistakes in administration. But they will not 
 do it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think some policy could be worked out on 
 this subject that would affect all of the reservations; a general law 
 upon this subject that would give adequate protection to the prop- 
 erty of the Indians, and at the same time carry forward in a legiti- 
 mate and rational manner conservation. I recall one big reservation 
 I saw in the State of Washington where millions of feet of matured 
 timber, the biggest and prettiest trees I ever saw, are going to waste 
 because they have ripened — many of them are dying — and they are 
 not being used and no effort is being made to use them. I think 
 there is much force in your suggestion, but I do think that when 
 Congress undertakes work it ought to work out the whole problem 
 if it can, and work out a system that will apply to all these reserva- 
 tions upon which valuable timber exists. Of course, under this sys- 
 tem we would be creating — if it be very extensive and be admitted 
 by the Interior Department — you would be creating another set of 
 officers and another bureau of forestry, and I am not unmindful of 
 the conflict, the age-long, the seemingly interminable conflict between 
 the Department of Agriculture and the Department of the Interior 
 over this subject. 
 
 Senator Pittman. We come down to this proposition, though, if 
 a certain character of supervision is required, the expenses must be 
 incurred. Now, then, if it necessary to pick out the timber that may 
 be sold and not sell it all, and I think we all agree we should not sell 
 it all — if it is necessary to do that, then we have got to provide the 
 necessary force to see that it is properly done. I agree with the 
 Senator from Arkansas that it should be done in a general law; 
 that IS, a general law applicable to all Indian reservations, because 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 399 
 
 we have the same thing in our State to contend with that they have 
 there. I only read this for the purpose of explaining the meaning 
 of the Secretary of the Interior with regard to this amendment and 
 to show the necessity for action of this committee on this subject. 
 1 think it ought to be taken up immediately after this. I have also 
 read this for the purpose of showing that the practice of the Forestry 
 Department is to sell timber on a stumpage basis, and I think it would 
 be very unwise to require a homesteader, who really wants a home, to 
 compel him to pay cash for the timber that is standing on it when 
 it might be two or three years before he would cut it down or have 
 a market for it or utilization for it. It would tend, you understand, 
 to eliminate the poor man. It would tend to simply offer it to a 
 man that had the means to pay the cash for it, or it might subject 
 the homesteader to useless loss in attempting to borrow money to 
 put himself in that position; and I favor the separation of this 
 amendment as Senator La Follette gave it — I favor the repeal of 
 that other law, because undoubtedly the Department of the Interior 
 wants it repealed. 
 
 Senator Myers. He has not said so. He offers it, but does not 
 repeal it outright. 
 
 Senator Pittman. He repeals that part for the land; his bill is 
 antagonistic to the former act. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you think on land belonging to the Indians we 
 ought to restrict the market by saying it must be sold to be used in 
 the State, the same as we do on land belonging to the Government? 
 
 Senator Pittman. No; I do not see any reason for it. I do not 
 know why that was ever put in this law. 
 
 Senator Eobi^-son. I think when you come to work tha,t sugges- 
 tion out as a whole you are going to find it a big proposition 
 
 Senator Clapp. And you can not do it as an amendment to the 
 Indian appropriation bill; that is positive. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. No, indeed. 
 
 The Chaiemax. The question is submitted as proposed by Senator 
 La Follette. Those in favor will say, aye; those opposed, no. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Senator Myers. I will offer as a substitute to this amendment ot 
 
 Senator La FoUette's ,, . , i n x 
 
 Senator La Follette. Senator Myers, Mr. Meritt has worked out 
 an amendment there with some care that I think might meet the 
 point you have in mind. „ , , o j. t 
 
 Mr Meritt At the end of the amendment offered by Senator La 
 Follette, if it is desired by the committee to give the settlers time m 
 which to pay for this timber, I thought it might be desirable to add 
 this legislation : 
 
 Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior may in his discretion accept 
 payments in installments for said timber under such terms, conditions, rules, 
 and regulations as he may prescribe. 
 Senator Clapp. I move its adoption. •+, „^^r.<-i»n 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from Minnesota moves its adoption. 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Meritt, is not that somewhat of a contradic- 
 tion there? It says flatly here that he shall pay ^^^ ^^t^^^ 3^^* 
 the time of making entry, and then says m. another Pj^^e, Provided 
 the Secretary of the Interior may, m his discretion, accept payments 
 
400 IJSTDIAN APPEOPKIATION- BILL. 
 
 in installments for said timber under such terma, conditions, rules, 
 and regulations as he may prescribe. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is the object of the proAdso. 
 
 Senator La Follette. To alter the preceding portion or modify it. 
 
 Senator Myees. That is a very unusual and flat contradiction, 
 though. The general form of drawing that would be to say 
 
 Senator La Follette. The rule requires the payment, but if we 
 adopt the proviso we invest the Secretary with the discretion to make 
 an exception in certain cases and take payment in installments. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. In all cases except where he does exercise his 
 discretion the payment would have to be made in cash. 
 
 Senator Pittman. You could just simply say : " Except as here- 
 inafter provided." Pay cash except as hereinafter provided, and 
 then put your proviso on. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That would be all right. 
 
 Senator Mtees. You accept that, do you Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That would be entirely agreeable. 
 
 Senator Mxees. " Shall at the time of making original homestead 
 entries pay the full value of the timber found on the land at the 
 time the appraisement of the land itself is made, except as herein- 
 after provided." 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chaieman. Is there any objection? 
 
 Senator Myees. I am willing to vote for that. 
 
 The Chaieman. The question is on the adoption of the substitute 
 as amended by the suggestic^n of the department and later by the 
 suggestion of Senator M_yers. 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that we insert the language there in that 
 Choctaw matter, "except where contracts have heretofore been ap- 
 proved by the Secretary of the Interior in accordance with existing 
 laws." ^ 
 
 The Chaieman. The Senator from Minnesota proposes the follow- 
 mg amendment on page 27, line 16,^ after the word "again," insert: 
 
 Except where contracts have been heretofore approved by the Secretary of 
 the Interior in accordance with existing law. 
 
 You are not prepared to vote on that now ? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. No; I think we might act on this whole matter 
 at once. 
 
 PAYMENT or assessments INDIAN ALLOTTMENTS FOE HIGHWAYS IN THE 
 STATE OF MINNESOTA. 
 
 Mr. Clapp offered the following (H. E. 20193, 63d Cong., 3d sess.) 
 as an amendment to the bill to be inserted under the Minnesota items, 
 and It was adopted by the committee : 
 
 ot^m^Z^n^rZ i^- ?°"'i°^ =°"^*y commissioners of any county in the State 
 saif Staff ^n-H,-'^ ^ ^*''**' '■"'■'^l highway in accordance with the laws of 
 to tnlnti.; n^ highway directly benefits allotments of Indians not subject 
 for^i^Hrho^oL^""^ assessments, but which allotments would be assessed 
 treatv «.f f r^ "°'^'''' ^^"^ '*^® °^ ^^^ ^^'d State were they not exempt by 
 mav mnli f ^^^^f' °'', °'^'''' ^°^' ^^^ ^•''i'i bo'J'^'i «* county commissioners 
 ammi^^ nf CO-/ ^'^"■^*' °* assessments against such benefited allottees, the 
 tC ^nL «f/ assessments in each case being that prescribed by the laws of 
 me said State for lands situated and benefited similar to the allotments of 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 401 
 
 State rural highway is onlthat ^U ht^ fn, 7v.. f ^he Interior the projected 
 allotments aff^ted/then he shall IscertMlnwhX^rl'''*"""''" °* *^^ ^'^'^'^'i 
 against the said allottees are fal^-mrt?„«Tf.^^'^ ^^ assessments proposed 
 
 or Charged during the t^me^'^id'aUmen? fre'h^irfnTusf bT thTuS 
 States shall not be nor at any time become a lien on saW allotments T^ 
 Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and empower*;^! t™ to ThP 
 comity treasurer of such county said assessments and prrts thereof as thev 
 become due out of any funds belonging to the Indians owning safd benefited 
 allotments and which funds are under the control of the ulited States or 
 
 nS'l^.f *^^ ^S'^'^f- *"■ T' °* """^ t"^«l ^^l^ under the contro of the 
 United States or Secretary of the Interior which are subject to be prorated 
 among the members of the tribe to which the Indians owning such benefited 
 
 ^inT^^'r ^-^^7^;^ ^^""l ^"""^^ *^ ""^y ^^ P^^d f™"> tribal funds shaU be 
 charged against tlie Indians whose respective assessments have been paid- 
 Promded, That every Indian who has been assessed in the manner aforesaid 
 shall have the right to appeal within thirty days after being notified of such 
 assessment to the Secretary of the Interior for a reexamination and readjudica- 
 tion of whether or not he has been assessed greater than bis proportionate 
 share, and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to reduce the 
 amount of such assessment if in his judgment justice requires it. 
 
 Depabtment of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, January 12, WIS. 
 My Dear Mb. Stephens : I have received your letter of December 22, 1914, 
 transmitting for report H. R. 20193, " Providing for the payment of assessments 
 on Indian allotments benefited by the construction of State rural highways in the 
 State of Minnesota." 
 
 This bill is almost identical with H. R. 15289, upon which a report was made 
 under date of May 22, 1914. In that report it was stated that the department 
 was in accord with the purpose of the bill, except that it might be construed 
 in its present form to create a lien on Indian lands held in trust by the United 
 States, and to authorize a sale of such lands to pay the charges assessed. It 
 was therefore suggested that there be inserted a provision specifically exempting 
 the Indian lands from a forced sale. 
 
 As the suggested modification has been made, the department favors the 
 enactment of the proposed legislation. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 Hon. John H. Stephens, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives. 
 
 CONFEDERATED BANDS OF tTTE INDLiNS NEGOTIATION OF AGREEMENT 
 
 FOR FINAL SETTLEMENT OF ALL CLAIMS. 
 
 The following amendment was offered by Senator Thomas and 
 adopted by the committee : 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs 
 be and are hereby authorized and directed to negotiate an agreement with the 
 confederated bands of Ute Indians for a final settlement of all the rights, 
 claims, and demands of said Indians against the United States, arising under 
 the agreement between said Indians and the United States ratified by the act 
 of June fifteenth, eighteen hundred and eighty (Twenty-first Statutes, page one 
 hundred and ninety-nine), with a view to relieving the unsold lands, the sub- 
 ject of said agreement, from all claims or demands of said Indians, and to malie 
 the proceeds of said lands now available as a trust fund for their present use 
 
 82833— VOL 1 — 15 26 
 
402 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 to advance their civilization, and under any law or agreement with the United 
 States, which have not heretofore been adjudicated ; and the Secretary of the 
 Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs shall report the result of such 
 negotiations to Congress at the earliest possible date; and there be and is hereby 
 appropriated out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, the 
 sum of $5,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary for said purpose, to be 
 expended under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, January $3, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 My Dear Senator: I have your letter of January 15, 1915, inclosing copy 
 of an amendment intended to be proposed by Senator Thomas to the pending 
 Indian appropriation' bill for the fiscal year 1916 (H. R. 20150), the purpose 
 of which amendment is to provide for the negotiation of an agreement with 
 the confederated bands of Ute Indians for a final settlement of all their claims 
 against the "United States. 
 
 In submitting an adverse report to the chairman of the Committee on Indian 
 Affairs, United States Senate, on a proposed amendment to H. R. 26874, Sixty- 
 second Congress, third session (Indian appropriation bill for fiscal year 1914), 
 which would have en;ibled the confederated bands of Ute Indians to submit to 
 the Court of Claims for adjudication their claim against the United States, 
 the department, under date of January 31, 1913, said among other things: 
 
 " There are no difficult legal questions involved in the determination of the 
 rights and interests of these Indians, and no questions involving the attention 
 of attorneys of unusual forensic or legal ability, if indeed there are any ques- 
 tions which justify the employment of any attorneys whatever. The ques- 
 tions at issue involve chiefly the determination of certain mineral, timber, and 
 nonirrigable lands. There is apparent no sufBcient reason why representatives 
 of the Government can not determine the value of these lands, and, after fully 
 consulting with the Indians, reach an agreement which may be submitted with 
 the full consent of the Indians to Congress for appropriate action." 
 
 I am of the opinion that the amendment now proposed is in some respects 
 very desirable. However, I am opposed to that part of the amendment pro- 
 viding that the " said Indians may be represented in said negotiations and 
 settlement by the counsel of their own selection and who are now representing 
 them under written agreement." 
 
 In the first place, as may be inferred from department letter referred to 
 above, there appear to be no questions involved which would justify the em- 
 ployment of an attorney. Furthermore, as far as the records of this office are 
 concerned, no contract between the Ute Indians and any attorneys to represent 
 them in this matter has received the approval of the office and the Secretary of 
 the Interior in accordance with the provisions of section 2103 of the Revised 
 Statutes. If the amendment were adopted as written, it would probably have 
 the effect of validating any contract which might have been written, and I 
 would be opposed to such action in the absence of full knowledge of the terms 
 of such contract. I therefore suggest that the amendment be amended by 
 striking out all that part thereof after the word " Interior," in line 11 of page 2. 
 A''ery truly, yours, 
 
 Cato Sells, Commissioner. 
 
 AFTER RECESS. 
 
 The committee was called to order by Senator Clapp (presiding). 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Meritt, I think it was arranged that you. should 
 speak for the department. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I am not going to make any extended remarks on this 
 subject. The attorneys (Messrs. Mott & Thraves) representing the 
 parties who want to allot the land in question, and Mr. Eeed, of the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 403 
 
 Indian Office, read very carefully prepared briefs on this subject, 
 setting out the facts and the law as they see it. I shall not attempt 
 to reiterate what they have said, but will simply invite your attention 
 to the statements they have made and also to the statements that 
 have been made before the House Committee on Indian Affairs on 
 House ]oint resolution 380, which is printed as a hearing. 
 
 In making a statement on this subject I think we should get 
 thoroughly into our minds what is attempted to be done by the amend- 
 ments offered in connection with this matter to the Indian appropria- 
 tion bill. The first amendment offered by Senator Owen reads as 
 follows : 
 
 That the unallotted land of public domain of the Creek Nation or tribe of 
 Indians, Inludlug any land the title to which has been or may be recovered for 
 the Creek Nation in any pending or other suit or otherwise, be, and the same 
 IS hereby, withheld from allotment to members of said nation or tribe and that 
 the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized in his discretion 
 to cause such land to be sold or leased for the benefit of the Creek Nation or 
 tribe of Indians under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe the pro- 
 ceeds of such sale or lease to be paid into the Treasury of the United States to 
 the credit of said Creek Nation. 
 
 The second amendment reads as follows : 
 
 Resolved iy the Senate and House of Represcntatiies of the UnUed States of 
 America in Congress assembled. That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he Is 
 hereby, authorized and directed to cause to be made an investigation coucerning 
 duplicate and fraudulent enrollments and allotments of members of the Creek 
 Tribe of Indians in Oklahoma, or of persons who were represented to be such, 
 and to investigate- the rights of the Creek Nation in and to the beds of the 
 Arkansas and Cimarron Rivers in Oklahoma; and that the Secretary of the 
 Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to take such action as 
 may be necessary and appropriate to recover for the Creek Jsation any land 
 erroneously allotted to members of said nation, or to persons represented to be 
 such; and that the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized 
 to employ such persons as may be necessary for the purpose of making an im- 
 mediate and thorough investigation of alleged duplicate and fraudulent enroll- 
 ment and allotment cases, and also the claim of the Creek Nation to the beds 
 of the Arkansas and Cimarron Rivers; and there is hereby appropriated, out of 
 any money in the Treasury of the United States belonging to the Creek Nation 
 of Indians, the sum of $25,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, for the 
 purpose of paying the salaries and necessary expenses of persons employed in 
 making such investigation and for the payment of such other necessary expenses 
 as may be incurred under authorization and direction of the Secretary of the 
 Interior in connection therewith. 
 
 I take it that neither Mr. Mott nor Mr. Thraves will oppose the 
 last amendment, authorizing the investigation. Mr. Mott tells me 
 that he does not oppose this amendment, and I take it that no one 
 else will oppose it, because it will enable the department to make a 
 thorough investigation as to duplicate enrollments, and we hope 
 by that investigation to recover 40 or 50 allotments that had been 
 fraudulently made to parties who are not entitled to receive the same. 
 We will then confine ourselves to this first amendment that I read, 
 offered by Senator Owen. 
 
 This subject can be divided under the heads of policy and law. 
 I believe it will be conceded by practically all that it is poor policy 
 for the Government to allot five citizens of the Creek Nation, three 
 of whom are freedmen, property estimated to be worth at least 
 $5,000,000, and probably more. The Creek agreement provides that 
 the average allotment shall be $1,040. IE these allotnaents were made, 
 it would certainly be not in accordance with the spirit of the Creek 
 
404 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 agreement, so far as value is concerned, and would be giving these 
 five allottees a much larger share in the property of the Creek Na- 
 tion than has been awarded to other citizens who have heretofore 
 been enrolled and allotted. 
 
 Now, as to the law. I would like to read to you what the Creek 
 agreement says on the question of allotment : 
 
 Sec. 3. All lands of said tribe, except as herein provided, shall be allotted 
 among the citizens of said tribe by said commission so as to give each an equal 
 share of the whole in value, as nearly as may be, in manner foUoveing : There 
 shall be allotted to each citizen one hundred and sixty acres of land — ^boundaries 
 to fonform to the Government survey — which may be selected by him so as to 
 include improve'ments which belong to him. One hundred and sixty acres of 
 land, valued at six dollars and fifty cents per acre, shall constitute the standard 
 value of an allotment, and shall be the measure for the equalization of values; 
 and any allottee receiving lands of less than such standard value may, at any 
 time, select other lands which at their appraised value are sufficient to make 
 his allotment equal in value to the standard so fixed. 
 
 Senator Clapp. What was the date of that agreement? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. March 1, 1901 ; found in Thirty-first Statutes at Large, 
 page 861. I contend, Mr. Chairman, that it would neither be in ac- 
 cordance with the spirit of the Creek agreement nor with the laws 
 relating to Creek allotments nor, in fact, the letter of the law for 
 the department to allot to a freedman 160 acres of land valued at 
 more than $1,000,000. The statement was made that lands had been 
 allotted to the Creek Nation of great value because they were oil 
 lands. The department contends that it was discovered subsequent 
 to allotment that these lands were valuable for oil, and if the depart- 
 ment had known at the time that these lands were of such great 
 value we would not have allotted them. In connection with this 
 statement I wish to invite the attention of the committee to a state- 
 ment that was made to Mr. J. George Wright before the House Com- 
 mittee on Indian Affairs. 
 
 Senator Page. At what time ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Last week. Mr. Wright was formerly the Commis- 
 sioner to the Five Civilized Tribes, and is present at this time. The 
 chairman asked this question: 
 
 Then I will ask you when did the department first begin the policy of pre- 
 venting allotments being made on nonoil land to the Creek Nation? 
 
 Mr. Wright. I do not recnll that the policy was ever pursued, Mr. Chairman. 
 The allotments in the Creek Nation were all made, as I recall it, prior to the 
 discovery of any oil and gas. They were made before I had charge of the office, 
 in 1907. 
 
 It will be seen that we have not heretofore knowingly allotted val- 
 uable oil lands to a Creek citizen. These allotments now under con- 
 sideration—one of them, at least — is worth more than $1,000,000, 
 and we contend it would be unfair and unjust to the Creek Nation 
 to allot 160 acres of land, to a freedman worth that large amount of 
 money. 
 
 I wish also to call your attention to the fact that there is now out- 
 standing a patent issued by the Government to what is known as the 
 Thlocco allotment, for which these gentlemen are contending, and 
 I am quite sure that no vested right can attach to the tract of land 
 by the party applicant when the patent issued by the Government is 
 outstanding and prior to the cancellation of that patent. Therefore 
 these gentlemen have no legal right at this time to the Thlocco allot- 
 ment, which is valued at $1,000,000. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIAXION BILL. 405 
 
 If, as we contend, no legal right exists at this time for these people 
 to claim this land, and that it is in fact tribal land or will revert 
 to the tribe, we contend that Congress has authority to legislate and 
 dispose of this land for the benefit of the entire tribe. That position 
 is clearly sustained by the Supreme Court in what is Imown as the 
 Lone Wolf case, reported in One hundred and eighty -seventh United 
 States, page 553. I wish to read for the record two paragraphs from 
 this case which makes my contention pei'fectly clear. The Supreme 
 Court in that decision says : 
 
 Plenary authority over the tribal relntions of ttie Indians has been exercised 
 by Congress from tlie beginning, and the power has always been deemed a 
 political one. not subject to be controlled by the judicial department of the 
 Government. Until the year 1871 the policy was pursued of dealing with the 
 Indian tribes by means of treaties, and, of course, a moral obligation rested 
 upon Congress to act in good faith in performing the stipulations entered into 
 on its behalf. But, as with treaties made with foreign nations (Chinese Ex- 
 clusion case, 130 U. S.. 581, 600), the legislative power might pass laws in con- 
 flict with treaties made with the Indians. (Thomas v. Gay, 169 U. S., 264, 270; 
 Ward V. Race Horse, 163 U. S., 504, 511 ; Spalding v. Chandler, 160 XJ. S., 394, 
 405; Missouri, Kansas & Texas Ry. Co. v. Roberts, 152 U. S., 114, 117; The 
 Cherokee Tobacco, 11 Wall., 616.) 
 
 The power exists to abrogate the provisions of an Indian treaty, though 
 presumably such power will be exercised only when circumstances arise which 
 will not justify the Government In disregarding the stipulations of the treaty, 
 but may demand In the interest of the country and the Indians themselves that 
 it should do so. When, therefore, treaties were entered into between the United 
 States and a tribe of Indians it was never doubted that the power to abrogate 
 existed in Congress, and that in a contingency such power might be availed of 
 from considerations of governmental policy, particularly if consistent with per- 
 fect good faith towards the Indians. 
 
 It is clear therefore in my mind that these citizens for whom Mr. 
 Mott and Mr. Thraves are contending for have acquired no property 
 rights to these allotments, and under the decision of the Supreme 
 Court in the Lone Wolf case. Congress has authority to exercise 
 its power in reserving that land and disposing of it for the benefit 
 of the entire tribe. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. That will be true if any rights had attached, but if 
 any rights have attached, then has Congress got the power ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We contend that no right has attached in this case. 
 
 Mr. Mott. But I say, if it has. 
 
 Senator Clapp. There is no use arguing that. I think, Mr. Meritt, 
 everyone agrees that unless a right has attached, there is no question 
 of the plenary power of Congress, and the real question is whether 
 any right has attached by virtue of what these people have done. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, we contend that the right has not 
 attached, but that is a question that must be ultimately settled by the 
 courts. They contend that a right has attached. We contend that it 
 has not attached, and it is a matter for the courts to decide who is 
 right in this matter. . ^ 
 
 There hardly can be any question about the authority of the 
 Secretary of the Interior to withhold these lands temporarily from 
 aUotmeiit. That authority was exercised by Secretary Hitchcock m 
 withholding from allotment certain timber reserve lands m the 
 Choctaw Nation. i i j.- 
 
 These gentlemen are basing their claim on the alleged selection 
 of these lands by the Creek citizens, whom they represent. We con- 
 
406 INDIAN APPEOPKIATldN BILL. 
 
 tend that a selection only does not procure any valid right to an allot- 
 ment in the Creek Nation. In this connection we will invite the 
 attention of the committee to section 19 of the supplemental Creek 
 agreement, which reads in part as follows: 
 
 When any citizen shall thereafter make selection of his allotment and 
 (notice the word 'and'), as herein provided, receive certificate for, he shall 
 immediately thereupon be placed in possession of his allotment. 
 
 It is necessary before they become vested with any legal right to 
 an allotment that they shall receive a certificate therefor |rom the 
 Government, and they do not claim that they have yet received cer- 
 tificates to any tract of land in controversy, and we contend, under 
 the law, that it requires a certificate issued by the Government before 
 any right attaches. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not want to abridge your argument. I spoke 
 as I did to avoid a further discussion of what we are all agreed upon. 
 You are now announciating what I think all the members of the com- 
 mittee agree is a crucial point, whether any rights have attached 
 by virtue of what these people have done. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. In connection with the question of issuing certificates, 
 I wish to invite the attention of the committee to the testimony of 
 Mr. Wright before the House committee, which is found on pages 
 130 and 131 of the House hearings, as follows : 
 
 Mr. Miller. Is there any evidence passing from the United States to him, 
 indicating his right to that allotment under the terms of the agreement? 
 
 Mr. Weight. The certificate. The agreement provides that when he has 
 made his selection and has got his certificate of allotment, that that certificate 
 of allotment entitles him to undisputed possession, and the Indian agent shall put 
 him in possession and remove any parties therefrom, and that he should not be 
 controlled in that right by any court, but the minute he gets his certificate he 
 is entitled to undisputed possession. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Are you quoting Mr. Wright as a lawyer in that respect? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I am quoting Mr. Wright for the reason that he has 
 had charge of the allotments of the Indians of the Five Civilized 
 Tribes. He has had a larger experience in allotting the Indians of 
 the Five Civilized Tribes than any living or dead man, and his testi- 
 mony before the House committee should therefore carry great 
 weight with this committee. And Mr. Wright says that it is neces- 
 sary that there shall be issued a certificate by the Government before 
 any property right attaches. Another question was asked Mr. 
 Wright, as follows : 
 
 The Chairman. Then, Mr. Wright, I desire to ask you this question: Is it 
 not a fact that no Indian has any specific right to any special tract of land 
 until the certificate of allotment was issued to him ; I mean a vested right? 
 Did any Indian have a vested right to a specific tract of land until the depart- 
 ment had issued him a certificate? 
 
 Mr. Wright. No, sir ; we never considered that he had any right until he 
 got a certificate. 
 
 Now, Mr. Chairman, I have not only shown you the provision of 
 the law and the Creek agreement that requires that there shall be 
 not only a selection but a certificate issued by the Government before 
 any right attaches, and I have quoted the testimony of the man who 
 has been in charge of all this allotment work in the Five Civilized 
 Tribes. I now want to invite the attention of the committee to a 
 decision of the Supreme Court recently handed down which, in my 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 407 
 
 judgment, has a direct bearing on this case. It is a very short deci- 
 sion and, with the permission of the committee, I will read it 
 
 This decision was delivered by Mr. Justice Van Devanter, who is 
 recopized as peculiarly qualified to pass on legal questions arising 
 m the Five Civilized Tribes, inasmuch as he las at one time thf 
 assistant attorney general for the Interior Department and is thor- 
 oughly familiar with the laws relating to the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 The opinion of the court reads as follows : 
 
 SuPKEME Court of the United States. 
 No. 59. — October Term, 1914. 
 
 William Sizemore et al., plaintiffs in error, v. Foil M Brady 
 
 In error to the Supreme Court of the State of Oldatioma 
 
 December 21, 1914. 
 
 Mr. Justice 'S'au Devanter delivered the opinion of the court • 
 
 This was a suit to determine conflicting claims to an allotment selected and 
 made after August 8, 1902, on behalf of Bills Grayson, a Creek citizen duly 
 entitled to enrollment, who died unmarried March 1, 1901, leaving as his only 
 surviving relatives three first cousins, one on the paternal and two on the 
 maternal side. All were Creels: citizens. In the papers evidencing the selection 
 and approval of the allotment, as also in the ensuing tribal deed, the bene- 
 ficiaries were designated as the " heirs " of the deceased, without otherwise 
 naming them; and this was in accord with the usual practice. The suit was 
 brought by the paternal cousin, who insisted that the title under the allotment 
 and tribal deed passed to him alone. The others were made defendants and 
 answered asserting an exclusive right in themselves. Each side also advanced 
 an alternative claim that the three took the land in equal parts. Two ques- 
 tions of law were involved : First, whether the beneficiaries were to be ascer- 
 tained according to the Creek tribal law or according to an Arkansas law 
 presently to be noticed ; and, second, whether the governing law preferred either 
 paternal or maternal relatives when all were of the same degree. The trial 
 court, concluding that the tribal law was applicable and preferred maternal 
 relatives, gave judgment for the defendants ; but the supreme court of the State 
 held that the Arkansas law was controlling and preferred paternal relatives, 
 so the decision below was reversed with a direction that judgment be entered 
 for the plaintiff (33 Okla., 169). The defendants then sued out this writ of 
 error. 
 
 Anterior to the legislation which we must consider, the Creek lands and funds 
 belonged to the tribe as a community, and not to the members severally or as 
 tenants in common. The right of each individual to participate in the enjoy- 
 ment of such property depended upon tribal membership, and when that was 
 terminated by death or otherwise the right was at an end. It was neither 
 alienable nor descendible. Under treaty stipulations the tribe maintained a 
 Government of its own, with legislative and other powers, but this was a 
 temporary expedient and in time proved unsatisfactory. Like other tribal 
 Indians, the Creeks were wards of the United States, which possessed full power, 
 if it deemed such a course wise, to assume full control over them and their 
 affairs, to ascertain who were members of the tribe, to distribute the lands and 
 funds among them, and to terminate the tribal government. This Congress 
 undertook to do. The earlier legislation was largely preliminary and need not 
 be noticed. . ^, . „ _, , , , ., „^ 
 
 The first enactment having a present bearing is that of March 1, 1901, 
 31 Stat., 861, c. 676, called the Original Creek Agreement, which went into 
 effect May 25, 1901, 32 Stat., 1971. It made provision for a permanent enroll- 
 ment of the members of the tribe, for appraising most of the lands and allotting 
 them in severalty with appropriate regard to their value, for using the tribal 
 funds in equalizing allotments, for distributing what remained, for issuing 
 deeds transferring the title to the allotted lands to the several allottees, and 
 for ultimately terminating the tribal relation. In § 28 this act directed that 
 me enrolment, except as^o children, should include "all «tizens v.^o were 
 living" on April 1 1899, and entitled to enrollment under the earlier legislation, 
 and then delari that "if any such citizen has died since that time, or may 
 
408 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 hereafter die before receiving his allotment of lands and distributive share 
 of all the funds of the tribe, the lands and money to which he vi^ould be entitled, 
 if living shall descend to his heirs according to the laws of descent and dis- 
 tribution of the Creek Nation, and be allotted and distributed to them 
 
 So much of that act as recognized the tribal laws of descent and distribution 
 was repealed by the act of May 2T, 1902,' 32 Stat., 258, c. 888, which also 
 provided ■ " and the descent and distribution of the lands and moneys provided 
 for in said act [March 1, 1901] shall be in accordance with the provisions of 
 chapter forty-nine of Mansfield's Digest of the Statutes of Arliansas m force in 
 the Indian Territory." This was repeated, with a qualification not material 
 here in section 6 of the act of June 30, 1902, 32 Stat., 500, c. 1323, called the 
 Supplemental Creek Agreement, which went into effect August 8, 1902. See 
 32 Stat 2021 ; Tiger o. Western investment Co., 221, U. S., 286, 301. 
 
 Ellis Grayson was living April 1, 1899, and entitled to enrollment. Had he 
 lived he would have been entitled, under the original agreement, to participate 
 in the allotment and distribution of the tribal property. But he died March 1, 
 1901, before the agreement went into effect and without receiving any part of 
 the lands or funds of the tribe. In these circumstances the agreement con- 
 templated that his heirs should take his place in the allotment and distribution 
 and should receive "the lands and money to which he would be entitled if 
 living " ; and it also contemplated that effect should be given to the Creek laws 
 of descent and distribution in determining who were his heirs and in what 
 proportion they were to take the property passed to them in his right. But, as 
 before said, the act of May 27, 1902, and the supplemental agreement repealed 
 the provision giving effect to the Creek laws of descent and distribution and 
 substituted in their stead the laws of Arkansas embodied in chapter 49 of 
 Mansfield's Digest. This change went into effect before the allotment in ques- 
 tion was selected or made and has an important bearing here, because, accord- 
 ing to the Creek laws, the maternal cousins were either the sole heirs or joint 
 heirs with the paternal cousin, while according to the Arkansas laws the 
 paternal cousin was the only heir. 
 
 On the part of the maternal cousins it is contended that the provisions iri the 
 original agreement relating to the allotment and distribution of the tribal lands 
 and funds were in the nature of a grant in praesentl and invested every living 
 member of the tribe and the heirs, designated in the tribal laws of every mem- 
 ber who had died after April 1, 1899, with an absolute right to an allotment 
 of lands and a distributive share of the funds, and that Congress could not 
 recall or Impair this right without violating the due-process-of-law clause of 
 the fifth amendment to the Constitution. To this we can not assent. There 
 was nothing in the agreement indicative of a purpose to make a grant in 
 praesenti. On the contrary, it contemplated that various preliminary acts 
 were to precede any investiture of individual rights. 
 
 And we contend under the Creek agreement that the acts to invest these 
 individual Creek citizens with a property right was not only to file on this 
 land, but to get a certificate from the Government, which they have not done. 
 " The lands and funds to which it related were tribal property and only 
 as it was carried into effect were individual claims to be fastened upon them." 
 That is what we are contending here, that under the decision Congress has 
 plenary power to take action in connection with this land. 
 
 Unless and until that was done Congress possessed plenary power to deal 
 with them as tribal property. It could revoke the agreement and abandon 
 the purpose to distribute them in severalty, or adopt another mode of dis- 
 tribution, or pursue any other course which to it seemed better for the 
 Indians. 
 
 We contend it is better for the Indians that this property, worth $6,000,000, 
 be distributed equally among all the citizens of the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 rather than to give it to five members, three of whom are freedmen. And 
 without doubt it could confine the allotment and distribution to living mem- 
 bers of the tribe or make any provision deemed more reasonable than the 
 first for passing to the relatives of deceased members the lands and money 
 to which the latter would be entitled, if living. In short, the power of Con- 
 gress was not exhausted or restrained by the adoption of the original agree- 
 ment, but remained the same thereafter as before, save that rights created In" 
 
 'This act went Into effect July 1, 1902. See joint resolution No. 24, 32 Stat., 742. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 409 
 
 tarrying the agreement into effect could not be divested or impnired. (Clioate 
 i>. Trapp, 224 U. S., 665, 671.) 
 
 In principle it was so held in Gritts v. Fisher, 224 U. S., 640. There an 
 act or agreement of 1902 had made pro\ ision for allotting and distributing the 
 lands and funds of the Cherokees in severalty among the members of the tribe 
 who were living on September 1, 1902, and an act of 1906 had directed that 
 Cheroliee children born after September 1, 1802, and living on March 4, 1906, 
 should participate in the allotment and distribution. By enlarging the num- 
 ber of participants the later act operated to reduce the distributive share to 
 which each would be entitled, and because of this the validity of that act 
 was called in question, the contention being that the prior act confined the 
 allotment and distribution to the members living on September 1, 1902, and 
 therefore invested them with an absolute right to receive all the lands and 
 funds, and that this right could not be impaired by subsequent legislation. 
 This court rejected the contention and said (p. 048) : " No doubt such was 
 the purport of the act. But that, in our opinion, did not confer upon them 
 any vested right such as would disable Congress from thereafter making pro- 
 vision for admitting newly born members of the tribe to the allotment and dis- 
 tribution. The difficulty with the appellants' contention is that it treats the 
 KCt of 1902 as a contract, when ' it is only an act of Congress and can have no 
 greater effect.' (Cherokee Intermarriage cases, 203 U. S., 76, 93.) It was but 
 an exertion of the administrative control of the Government over the tribal 
 property of tribal Indians, and was subject to change by Congress at any time 
 before it was carried into effect and while the tribal relations continued." 
 (Stephens v. Cherokee Nation, 174 U. S., 445, 488 ; Cherokee Nation v. Hitchcock, 
 187 U. S., 294; Wallace v. Adams, 204 U. S., 415, 423.) 
 
 We have seen that the allotment in question was not selected or made until 
 after the supplemental agreement went into effect. The heirs designated In 
 chapter 49 of Mansfield's Digest were therefore the true beneficiaries. Accord- 
 ing to its provisions, as is conceded, the paternal cousin was the sole heir. 
 Judgment affirmed. 
 
 Mr. Chairman, we contend the decision of the Supreme Court 
 handed down December 21, 1914, has a direct bearing on this case, 
 and that this decision clearly proves our contention that Congress 
 has authority to legislate in regard to this land, for the reason that 
 no property right has attached in view of the fact that the provi- 
 sions of the Creek agreement have not been complied with to the 
 extent of issuing a certificate to these lands. 
 Mr. MoTT. May I ask my question now? ,, • j a 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is my understanding that every thing advanced 
 here, not in reply to your argument, you will have an opportumty to 
 
 ""'Mr.^MoiT. I just want to ask him this question: Yoti stated you 
 
 thought a certificate was necessary to vest title did you, Mr. Mentt? 
 Mr. Meeitt. I think so. I think it is absolutely necessary 
 Mr MoTT Have you not issued certificates on five acres of this 
 
 ThTocco land and are'^not seeking to set it aside m t^f e -me ^-f?^^ 
 Mr Meeitt. We are going to endeavor to set aside a number ot 
 
 certificates, because there has been fraud and duplication of allot- 
 
 T£ Moi'x. There.-s no fraua in th^ Vu^uetf Sfic'ai: 
 acres due to an Indian that had l^V ^.^v^ll filerl 
 for five acres just a few days before these people filed. 
 Mr Meeitt. I prefer that Mr. Wright, who has had cnarge oi 
 
 'tr"S. HTn'of lT?aXent filed suit to set that certificate 
 
 aside? . ^ » , j -m-j. Wright is better 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It is a ^/^^^^lon of fact and Mr- W g^^^^ ^^^^ ^ 
 
 qualified to answer questions of tact relating 
 
410 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 am. We are relying on the Creek agreement— the provisions of the 
 Creek agreement, which are perfectly clear and which I have 
 quoted— and also the decision of the Supreme Court, not only m the 
 Lone Wolf case, but the decision of that court in the Sizemore case. 
 
 If selection only vested title and was as good as the allotment cer- 
 tificate, why did Mr. Thraves pay the Butlers $2,500 for the land 
 and agree to pay $7,500 when certificate of allotment was issued? 
 
 I want to call attention to the hearing before the House committee 
 found on page 117 in connection with this matter and quote Mr. 
 Thraves himself : 
 
 Mr. Norton. Did you pay them $10,000 outright? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. I had to pay them $2,500 cash and the balance In 30 days after 
 the certificate of allotment was issued; In other words, after the title was 
 quieted In them, and bear all expenses, which I did. But in order to encourage 
 the colored woman and her husband and show them that I wanted to be fair 
 with them. I told them that this land might eventually have oil upon it, although 
 at that time there was no oil there. It was in the oil field, however, and I told 
 them I would give them one-eighth royalty on 20 acres and $10,000 for the 120. 
 Now, that was my own proposition, which they accepted. They later on made 
 a lease with me, perhaps a month after they had made the contract on the 120. 
 
 Mr. Thraves himself was not willing to put up his money until a 
 certificate of allotment was issued, because he realized that the title 
 to the land would not be vested in his client and his representatives. 
 If Messrs. Mott and Thraves are sincere in their belief that their 
 clients have vested and valid rights under their selection, then they 
 should not oppose this legislation, as their vested right could not be 
 disturbed under this proposed legislation if enacted. 
 
 Mr. Chairman. I want to call your attention especially to that 
 point. If this legislation is enacted, and they have at this time 
 vested rights, this legislation will not disturb those vested rights. 
 We simply want an opportunity to recover this land for the benefit 
 of the Creek Nation and for the benefit of all the Creek citizens if 
 the courts decide that they have not a vested right in these allot- 
 ments. It is clear as a matter of policy that these five citizens of 
 the Creek Nation, three of whom are freedmen, should not be given 
 allotments worth $7,000,000; that this property should be distrib- 
 uted among all the Creek Indians so that the citizens of the Creek 
 Nation can receive equal shares in the Creek property. 
 
 I contend, Mr. Chairman, that equity, good conscience, and proper 
 regard for the rights of all Creek citizens would demand the enact- 
 ment of the legislation in question. And in order that there may be 
 no question about disturbing property rights in this legislation, or 
 any vested rights of the allottees whom these gentlemen represent, 
 I am going to suggest as an amendment to the amendment offered 
 by Senator Owen this proviso at the end of the amendment, line 12, 
 after the word " Nation," the following : 
 
 Provided, That nothing herein contained shall interfere with or abrogate any 
 valid vested right of any enrolled Creek citizen. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Do you think that adds to the law as proposed 
 now? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not. think that will add anything material to 
 the law, because I do not believe this legislation, if enacted, will 
 interfere with the valid rights of any Creek citizen who has a legal 
 right at this time ; but, in order to show our good faith in the matter, 
 we are willing that this proviso shall go in this amendment, and we 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 411 
 
 ask the gentlemen on the other side of the table to show their eood 
 faith m the matter by not opposing this legislation, but let the courts 
 settle this question of property rights of the Creek citizens Repre- 
 sented by them for the reason that there is where ultimately thL 
 question must be se tied; and if they have not property rights a? 
 this time we want the au hority to distribute this property fo that 
 It will go to all the Creek citizens rather than to only five of the 
 
 That is about all I care to say, Mr. Chairman. I have not had time 
 to go into this matter and write a brief, and I simply made these off- 
 hand remarks somewhat hurriedly, but I refer this committee to 
 the House hearing and to the statements made by Judge Allen, who 
 is the tribal attorney for the Creek Nation, and also to the statement 
 made by Mr Reed, who is in charge of the Five Civilized Tribes 
 work m the Indian Office. 
 
 Senator Clapp. What did the House do with this matter? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I am advised the House committee will report favor- 
 ably on the resolution which is worded exactly as the amendment 
 offered by Senator Owen. 
 
 Senator Clapp. They have not reported yet? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I do not know whether they have reported or will 
 report, but I have that information. I do not know whether I am 
 giving out the information in regard to that which I should not give 
 out, but subsequent developments will show whether or not the in- 
 formation I have is correct. 
 
 We have with us, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Grayson, who is secretary to 
 Motey Tiger, who is the principal chief of the Creek Nation— the 
 Indian sitting here — and, in order that the record may show that the 
 Creek Indians are opposed to Mr. Mott's contention and are in favor 
 of the legislation we are asking, I would like for Mr. Grayson to 
 make a short statement, which will not take over two or three 
 minutes. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Could not the committee, without doing violence 
 to well-known principles of our nature, assume that the Creek Nation 
 would be opposed to the contention of Messrs. Mott and Thraves? 
 
 Mr. Mott. Just for the purpose of the record, I should like to ask 
 some questions about a matter he has not referred to. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not know how the balance of the committee 
 feel. The opponents of this measure had their hearing. Now, the 
 department is being heard, and, of course, in the logical order of 
 things, if the department brings out anything that was not offered 
 by the proponents they will be given an opportunity to reply to it. 
 
 Mr. Mott. We do not want to reply. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You may ask the question. 
 
 Mr. Mott. This Thlocco allotment has been leased on the basis of 
 quarter royalty. I want to ack Mr. Meritt if the proposition under 
 which it was leased was ever submitted to the department ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The lease never has been submitted to the department, 
 Mr. Chairman. 
 
 Mr. Mott. Has the proposition ever been submitted to the depart- 
 ment from the Department of Justice as to that lease? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I will ask Mr. Dawson, who has gone through this 
 record very carefully, to answer that question. Mr. Dawson is the 
 
412 INDIAN APPROPRIATION- BILL. 
 
 man in the office who has had a good deal to do with this record, and 
 he can give you more accurate information than I can. 
 
 Mr. Dawson. What is the question ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Mr. Meritt stated that the quarter royalty of the 
 Thlocco lease, which has been approved by the court, was never sub- 
 mitted to the department. 
 
 Mr. Dawson. That- is right. The matter of a lease came up with a 
 suggestion made by Mr. Johnson, I think, and the first proposition 
 came up on an eighth royalty, and afterwards that was sent up to the 
 Department of Justice and suggestion was made that the matter 
 was in the hands of the court, and thereafter the matter was handled 
 from that end. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Has the department in any lease ever made and ap- 
 proved by the department ever provided that the improvements shall 
 be paid for out of the royalty ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The department had nothing to do with this lease, 
 Mr. Chairman, and we are neither criticizing nor approving the 
 terms of that lease at this time. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. I am just asking the question whether any lease 
 
 Senator Clapp. For one, I should want some little light as to what 
 bearing that has on the question of the right of Congress to interfere 
 with these people in their proposed allotments. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. I am asking in order to show you the lease under which 
 the Thlocco allotment is being operated will not only not bring any 
 money to the Creek Nation if it wins, but will actually leave the tribe 
 in debt to the company. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Under what authority was the lease masde? 
 
 Mv. MoTT. Under the recommendation of the district attorney. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Made in the Federal court in which the cause 
 was pending affecting the allotment ? 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Has any member of the committee any questions 
 to ask Mr. Meritt? If not, we will hear this chief. 
 
 Mr. Geatson (acting as interpreter). All we want to know is 
 whether the Indians are for or against this agreement. What is your 
 answer ? 
 
 Motet Tigee. We are in favor of the bill. 
 
 STATEMENT OF ME. J. GEORGE WRIGHT. 
 
 Mr. AYeight. I am at present special supervisor of the depart- 
 ment. From July of 1907 to September 1, 1914, 1 occupied the posi- 
 tion as Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes of Oklahoma. 
 J^rior to that time, from 1898, I occupied the position as inspector of 
 the department and was detailed to Indian Territory to represent the 
 becretary m all matters coming under the supervision of the depart- 
 ment, except matters of enrollment and allotments of land, which are 
 under the control of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 Un July 1, 1905, that commission was abolished and the law provided 
 that the remaining unfinished work of that commission should be 
 done imder the direction of the Secretary of the Interior. At that 
 time the Secretary designated Mr. Tams Bixby, who was formerly 
 chairman of that commission, as Commissioner to the Five Civilized 
 iribes as the Secretary's representative to complete the work. Mr. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 413 
 
 Bixby resigned July 1, 1907, and I was appointed to succeed him to 
 imish that work, as also to perform the duties which I previously per- 
 formed as inspector. 
 
 Mr. Chairman, this case, heard before the House Committee on 
 Indian Affairs, as well as before this committee, has demonstrated 
 that it is quite complicated. It would be a difficult matter for me, 
 and unfair to the committee, to endeavor to state offhand matters of 
 administration or laws down there applicable to the various cases, 
 without looking into the records. Everything that was done at the 
 office there, so far as I know during the time that I had to look after 
 the office, were matters of record. Those records speak for themselves 
 and are better authority than I could state here offhand. However, 
 the Commissioner of Indian Affairs has asked me to explain some 
 things about these cases and the law with reference thereto, so far as 
 we have understood it, as to whether at the time a person made appli- 
 cation for allotment he acquired any vested right prior to the time 
 that a certificate was issued. 
 
 Getting away from the Greek Nation for the moment, the laws 
 with reference to the allotments in the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations were practically the same as to the manner of procedure 
 and the method of the Indians making their applications for allot- 
 ment. There is in the Choctaw Nation a large area of timberlands 
 which adjoin Arkansas and nearly adjoin Texas, covering about 
 2,000,000 acres. That land was part of the Choctaw Nation, subject 
 to allotment. Applications had been made for allotments in a large 
 area of it. A large portion of it is very rough, mountainous coun- 
 try. During the time applications were being received for the full 
 allotments, prior to the time that I had charge of the office, Secre- 
 tary Hitchcock issued an order that no more allotments should be 
 made within a certain area; that the lands should be reserved as a 
 prospective forest reserve in case Congress should see fit to so 
 designate it. There had up to that time been about 850,000 acres 
 allotted in there for which certificates had been issued. Those allot- 
 ments were completed, but after that date of the order of the Secre- 
 tary no further allotments were made there. I can not say posi- 
 tively whether there were a number of applications pending there 
 upon that date for which no certificates had been issued, but I am 
 informed, since I have been here to-day, by the governor of the 
 Choctaw Nation that, as a matter of fact, he knew that there were 
 a large number of applications pending there, made previous to that 
 day, but that the commission declined to entertain them and re- 
 quested those Indians to take allotments elsewhere. There was con- 
 siderable criticism made against the department at that time for the 
 issuance of that order. Secretary Hitchcock, as I remember, m 
 hearings that were had took the position, and m my humble opinion 
 it was correct, that the law provided that all things necessary in 
 connection with allotments should be done under his direction; that 
 therefore he had the right as a matter of law to use his discretion 
 as to where the best places were to allot Indians or that he did have 
 the right to reject an application made by an Indian through some 
 other person who wanted to get the timber, or for other purposes, 
 where he did not deem it for the best interests of that Indian to 
 allot that particular tract of land. I am merely stating those facts 
 as procedure at that time. 
 
414 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Now, in the Creek allotment, again, there is no specific provision, 
 as I remember, providing that any Indian shall be allotted any par- 
 ticular tract of land, except that he shall be permitted to select land 
 where his improvements are located, and, as Mr. Meritt has stated, 
 that after the selections have been made, a certificate issued, that 
 he is entitled to undisputed possession, and that the Indian agent 
 shall put him in possession and remove anybody that is on that land 
 objectionable to that person, and that, furthermore, the Indian 
 agent shall not be controlled by the writ of any court. The agree- 
 ment further provides that anything not specifically provided for 
 in that act, in connection with town sites and everything pertaining 
 to the tribal matters, should be done under direction of the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior. 
 
 I was asked by the chairman of the House committee, a few days 
 ago, Avhat was the date of the policy of the department to decline to 
 make allotments where they were valuable for oil and gas. I stated 
 that it was my recollection that the allotments were practically all 
 made in the Creek Nation prior to the time that the land became 
 principally valuable for oil and gas. At the time that I took charge 
 of the office, in 1907, practically all of the allotments for the Creek 
 Nation had been made. The law provided that the Indians should 
 receive 160 acres of land; that the standard value should be $6.50 
 per acre, and that no land should be valued at more than $6.50 an 
 acre, which may be standard value of allotment, $1,040. The agree- 
 ment further provided that after each Indian had received the 160 
 acres of land of less value than $1,040 that he should then be given 
 additional lands or moneys to bring it up to $1,040. I found that all 
 of the allotments of 160 acres had practically been made to every- 
 body, but that some 16,000 Indians had various values coming to 
 them in addition to their 160 acres to bring it up to $1,040. We had 
 at that time about 50,000 acres surplus land subject to allotments. 
 Notice was sent out, a circular notice, and I think notice given and a 
 circular notice sent to all persons who were entitled to any lands — 
 although we kept no copy of them — advising them that they had 
 A'arious amounts coming to them ; that the Congress and the depart- 
 ment were anxious to close up these allotments, and that if they de- 
 sired to select any of this additional 50,000 acres they should make 
 application for it up to a certain date, otherwise after that these 
 lands would be sold. I think there were a few applications made, 
 but not many. 
 
 In this Barney Thlocco case that land, 160 acres, happened to have 
 been allotted to Barney Thlocco a number of years ago. Certificate 
 was issued and the deed was issued, and the jurisdiction of the de- 
 partment ceased. It was afterwards represented that he was dead, 
 and that he had died prior to April 1, 1899, in which event, under 
 the law, he was not entitled to any allotment. Some testimony was 
 taken which seemed to indicate that he had died prior to that date; 
 recommendation was made to the department that the Attorney 
 General be asked to direct the United States attorney to institute 
 suit on Jjehalf of the Creek Nation to cancel that allotment and 
 restore the title back to the Creek Nation. If I am not mistaken, 
 action was taken and notice was published to the unknown heirs to 
 appear and show cause why that allotment should not be canceled. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 415 
 
 It is my recollection that afterwards some person put in an appear- 
 ance and claimed to be an heir; application was made to the court 
 to set aside that decree and to reopen the case, and it was done, with 
 the details of which I am not familiar. That case is still pending 
 in the court, and at the request of the United States attorney lal 
 year we detailed a man from our office to take testimony to ascertain 
 if he died prior to April 1, 1899, and that has not yet been deter- 
 mined. 
 
 Now, I have been directed by the commissioner to give the com- 
 mittee information with reference to any person else making an 
 application for that allotment in order that we might bring it to 
 your attention as to whether he had a vested right. 
 
 Sometime in 1905 or 1906 the record showed there was a David 
 Bowleg enrolled as a newborn freedman, a colored boy. Under the 
 law that boy was required to be living on the 1st day of March, 
 1905, in order to be enrolled, to get an allotment. It appears that 
 soon after he was enrolled and the rolls were approved by the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior that the boy's mother appeared at the office and 
 testified that that boy was dead, and that he died in 1903. Upon 
 that testimony I forwarded the record to the department. It seemed 
 to indicate to me that the mother should know when the bov died, 
 and I suggested, if the record was considered sufficient, that a nota- 
 tion be placed u_pon the roll: ''Died prior to March 1, 1905— not 
 entitled to allotment." It was approved by the department and that 
 notation was made upon the rolls. It subsequently appeared, in 
 about 1908, that some person, I think by name of Davis, appeared 
 at the office and filed an affidavit that that child was living, but it 
 does not appear that he made application for an allotm.ent. nor that 
 any action was taken upon it. I have no recollection of it ever 
 being referred to me, but I presume it was; that a paper was filed 
 at the office the same as a great many other papers. Xo application 
 was ever made to allot that child until 1913, after it was discovered 
 that this Thlocco allotment of 160 acres had proven very valuable 
 for oil and gas. The gentleman who filed that application in the 
 office came to me personally; stated that he had filed an application 
 for that, and I told him it could not be considered at the present time 
 for the reason that, so far as our records showed at the present time, 
 that land had been allotted, deed had been issued, and it was pending 
 in the United States court. He requested, however, that I send that 
 applicatioii for that allotment to the department, which I did, and 
 it is still pending. Now, as to whether he has a vested right or not 
 in that allotment I am not prepared to say. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I was unfortunate in not hearing the state- 
 ments made by Mr. Mott and others in connection with this case. I 
 am not going to ask a repetition of any part of it. I would like to 
 have heard the statements in full, but I have been unable to be here. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The case very briefly is this : These formal allot- 
 ments have been made ; proceedings have been brought to set them 
 aside, and subsequently these new allotments, and the parties have 
 tried to make selection ; they have not obtained certificates, and the 
 question the committee has to deal with is whether the selection, 
 without any action of the department of approval, constitutes the 
 vesting of such a right that Congress can not now declare the lands 
 
416 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 communal lands. In other words, the point that Mr. Wright dropped 
 the matter at is the point where the committee is making the inquiry. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Mr. Thraves has 30 minutes in which to make a reply, 
 and he will cite you the decisions. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. All right. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. W. V. THRAVES, OF TUISA, OKIA. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You may state your name and occupation. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. My name is W. V. Thraves; I am an attorney at 
 law. I shall be brief and will attempt to get through in the 30 
 minutes if possible. In the midst of my remarks on Saturday it was 
 requested by the committee that I not proceed further for the reason 
 that we hoped to have to-day a larger number of the committee 
 present. I am sorry it is not true that we have a larger number, but 
 we have at least one Senator present who was not here on Saturday, 
 and I am glad his mind is in an inquiring mood. 
 
 As to this matter of withdrawing from allotment the lands at 
 which this resolution is aimed at this time, we, of course, con- 
 tend that the withdrawal or attempt to withdraw them would be 
 unconstitutional. In my effort to show you that this is true I shall 
 try to draw an analogous case by way of illustrating or demonstrat- 
 ing to you our contention. It is admitted here by .the attorneys for 
 the department and those who are advocating this resolution that at 
 least four of these citizens who are entitled to 440 acres of this land 
 for which they have applied are duly enrolled citizens of the Creek 
 Nation, having complied with both conditions precedent as required 
 by the law, as cited by Mr. Meritt in the Sizemore case, and Mr. 
 Mott suggests two of them are Indians. I am frank, gentlemen of 
 the committee, to admit that I can not see where there should be 
 any difference between an Indian citizen and a colored citizen at this 
 time when the Government itself in the beginning made no difference, 
 and the colored citizens were allotted and accorded the same rights 
 and privileges that the Indian had. Although I am from the South 
 I have no prejudices against the colored man. I wish him well; I 
 would do anything I could to help him. I have always lived in that 
 attitude toward him, and I am sure that this committee is too broad 
 and too magnanimous and fair and just to let any prejudice enter 
 into their deliberations. 
 
 Ee^erting to the extract from the Sizemore case read by Mr. 
 Meritt, I desire to call attention to the language of the original 
 Creek agreement, which is in section 28 of that agreement as follows : 
 
 This net directed thnt the enrollment, except as to children, should include 
 all citizens who were living on April 1, 1899, and entitled to enrollment under 
 the earlier legislation. 
 
 And then declared that if any such citizen has died since that time, 
 etc., that his property should descend. Later on, with reference to 
 that, the court says : 
 
 Various preliminary acts were necessary to precede any investure of indi- 
 vidual rights. 
 
 Later on it says that " Congress could withdraw or modify such 
 legislation as it had heretofore made." In other words, it could be 
 changed by Congress at any time before it was carried into effect 
 and while the tribal relations continued. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 417 
 
 Mr. Chairman, I have in my mind this illustration : A man dying 
 possessed of an estate in land and in money. At his death he has 
 1,600 acres of land, 16 children, and some cash on hand. The 
 children are unable to agree among themselves as to just what is 
 best to do ^Yith the estate, so they go into court, and there is a parti- 
 tion suit. Under this the court agrees that the commissioner, or 
 trustee haying taken this property in charge, shall divide it into 
 equal portions. However, there shall be a difference in these 16 
 parts ; part of it shall be valued at $100 to the share and the other 
 part at $75 to the share. Those receiving allotments by drawing, or 
 whatever method they may pursue in this division of land worth 
 only $T5, shall be equalized from the money left by the father's 
 estate. 
 
 All of those heirs, except four, came in and claimed their rights. 
 The other four ballots, or drawings, the remainder of the drawings, 
 or that part belonging to the four still left in the court in the hands 
 of whoever .the trustee sees fit to leave them — in fact, he still has super- 
 vision over them — and for many years these four, for some unknown 
 reason, have been away; in fact perhaps by some accident may be 
 such people being minors, with no guardian to select anything for 
 them, and in another instance they may be out of the country, living 
 at a distance, when their father died and left the estate. 
 
 During this time — say 10 years — the land has become valuable for 
 oil or coal, or anything else you please. The parties who have made 
 their selections have received their equalization money in addition 
 thereto on 100 acres — one man had received $100,000 from his oil 
 royalties or coal royalties, on another allotment $75,000 value; 
 and another one had received $50,000 or $200,000, say; and, finally, 
 after 10 years, the four returned. They go to the courts and make 
 their drawing. Those four selections are made, but when they 
 selected the trustee says, " I can not at this time make you a deed 
 to this." They ask, "Why?" " Because the land has become more 
 valuable." Their brothers say, " No ; we can not submit to that, because 
 that ought to be equalized, or it ought to be sold "—they ought to 
 get their $100 each for their four respective shares. "We will admit, 
 or suggest, that the last four, which is in our case analogous with 
 those, are full allotments on $6.50 land, which was 160 acres, and 
 made it a full allotment. It would not be equitable for you to take 
 this land now, because when we took it it was only valued at $100 
 
 Mr. Chairman, one of the fundamental principles with regard to 
 a trustee is that he can not change, alter, or vary the terms of his 
 trust. Another is that he can not show any difference or partiality 
 in his treatment of the legatees, or the heirs— those who are under 
 
 To-day this case is absolutely analogous. Here we find, if you 
 please, a colored girl, a neighbor of Lula Butler, another colored 
 womaA, a neighbor of the young colored boy, Garrett, who have for 
 all this time been in actual possession of their allotments accordmg 
 to the treaties and the acts of Congress pursuant thereto. They have 
 received thousands, and in some cases hundreds of thousands ot 
 
 ''senator Robinson. Let me ask you a question here in order to 
 clear the matter up. When these other Creeks were allotted lands, 
 
 82833— VOL 1—15 27 
 
418 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 ^Yhich have proved to be oil lands, was it then known that they were 
 oil lands; were they oil-bearing lands at that time? 
 Mr. Thraves. Some of them were. ,, , ,, i _ ,j 
 
 Senator K«binson. It just occurred to me that the analogy could 
 not lie between your illustration and this case. Here is a case where 
 the Government took charge of this property as trustee for all the 
 Indians, and, as vou have stated, its purpose and pohcy were to make 
 an equal distribution of the assets of this estate among all the In- 
 dians At the time these Indians applied for these lands, it they 
 were not Imown to be oil lands, and in the regular way they became 
 vested with the title through their allotments and their application 
 for allotments were certified to, then of course they took evei-ything 
 under the land. That is a thing that applies to all sorts oi entry. 
 But where the lands are known at the time of filing application tor 
 allotment to be out of all proportion to the value of the other lands 
 that have been allotted, and where the allottee, or the person claim- 
 ing to be the allottee, is seeking to secure one allotment which would 
 be of a value equal to 10 or 100 ordinary allotments, the principle 
 which you have invoked does not apply, because it gives him some- 
 thing Avhich the others did not get, and instead of giving him the 
 equal share in the estate when it was distributed it gives him the 
 advantage over the other allottees. Now, it seems to me that in 
 order to make the parallel between the two cases complete he must 
 have made his application for the allotment and it must have been 
 certified and he must have acquired his title to it before the trustee 
 knew that it had this excessive value. If that had occurred cer- 
 tainly Congress could not take it away from him after he had gotten 
 it, and there would be no reason for doing it. That principle runs 
 through all the public land laws of -the United States — that a man 
 can not get an entry to agricultural or mineral land and get his title 
 to it under that kind of an entry and then estop the Government 
 from alleging fraud in procuring his title. I do not mean to imply 
 that there is any fraud upon the part of these parties who seek to 
 make allotments, but here is the principle: If an equal distribution of 
 this estate was intended and the trustee is charged with making that, 
 he is certainly not doing it when he gives one allottee property that 
 he laiows to be worth a million dollars, when the average value of 
 the property given to the other allottees is only $1,000. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Senator Robinson, it has been conceded here all 
 the time that unless the Government was estopped by the selection, 
 of course the Government can, and the committee is wholly of the 
 opinion that it ought. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. But this gentleman is arguing that it is in- 
 equitable to do it. That is the very basis of his argument. 
 
 Senator Clapp. In that situation, we have been trying to get the 
 various parties here to discuss the question. The only question is 
 whether the Government has the legal authority. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. I was going to proceed to show you that. 
 Senator Robinson. He has not done it. He has touched on the 
 equitable side of it, maintaining that Congress is doing something 
 wrong if it does put these allotments back into the general pot and 
 give the Creeks the benefit of all of it, and then pay his men twice 
 what the others have had. That is the principle he is addressing 
 himself to, and it occurs to me that the facts — that is, what I see oi 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 419 
 
 the facts-do not sustain the analogy that he is seeking to present 
 1 would rather hear him on the legal proposition as to whether Con- 
 gress can, m the exercise of its powers to legislate, withdraw this 
 
 Senator Clapp I may say, in answer to your question, that the 
 department-and I do not think there is any evidence to controvert 
 the position— claim that they did not know when these other valu- 
 able allotments were made that they were valuable 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I assume that they did not. If thev did I 
 should think they would be liable to censure for allowing the heirs 
 the value of not exceeding $6 for oil land that was worth $1 000 
 an acre. I assume that is true. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Judge Eobinson, you are a lawyer, I believe, are 
 you not s ' 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I think I am. 
 
 Mr. Thra\i;s. And you have been governor of your State Ar- 
 kansas, have you not ? ' 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Yes. You asked me what my profession was 
 
 Mr. Theaves. If you will follow me a little while and I do not 
 touch this case legally, then I will give up. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. If you will pardon me, we have a great many 
 hearings before different committees and I would rather have you 
 address yourself to that phase of the subject, namely, have the rights 
 of your clients vested ; and if so, upon what theory, what facts and 
 circumstances ? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. "Was not the title of the men that I have described 
 vested; was it not theirs already? Under the Creek agreement, the 
 solemn agreement and treaty between the Indian tribe and the United 
 States Government, their rights vested. When? They minute they 
 made their selection. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I do not think your assumed case is analogous 
 to the case at issue here. That is the reason I would like to have you 
 discuss particularly the case at issue. However, I have no objection 
 to your pursuing any course that you desire. I shall of course re- 
 serve my own opinion. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. I will take that course, and if I can not convince 
 you, of course I am the one who suffers. Judge Eobinson, under the 
 treaty the Indian was to give up his communal right. For what? 
 His allotment in severalty. Wliat did he get for his communal 
 rights ? In this case he got nothing. For his communal rights he is 
 entitled to his pro rata share of every dollar's worth of oil sold from 
 the entire Creek Nation, as is the case with the Osages to-day. Then 
 he has given up a substantial communal right which absolutely vests 
 his right the very minute he complies with the law and selects his 
 allotment. In other words, it carries, as I have suggested, the right 
 of selection of his allotment. 
 
 Now, there is one point that you failed to observe, a point that has 
 escaped your mind while this matter was looking so large. In addi- 
 tion to that these fellows that I have tried to describe to you have 
 gotten equalization money of $25 which my clients did not get and 
 can not get because they took a $6.50 allotment. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Let me ask you a question there. You say 
 when he gave up his communal right his individual right vested? 
 
420 IISTDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. The minute he selected ; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Where are your authorities to support that! 
 If you have authorities to support that, that is directly in point. 
 
 Mr. Thra^tis. These people have nothing but equity on their 
 side 
 
 Senator Robinson. Who? 
 
 Mr. Thkaves. The Government; they have nothing but equity. 
 • They have not the law. They are asking you to make a law for 
 them. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I understand that. Of course it is elemental 
 that we are considering an amendment to this bill, which if it passes 
 becomes a law. But the point 1 desire you to address yourself to, if 
 you will permit me to make the suggestion — and it is a point with 
 regard to which there is doubt in my mind — is this : You have asserted 
 that when the Creek Indians surrendered their communal rights and 
 made selections, immediately their rights to that particular piece of 
 land became vested. Now, show me your authorities for that ? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. I will do that in a minute. I want to say 
 
 Senator Robinson. Why do you not do it now ? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. I have argued this case with more briefness than 
 any other man who has appeared before the committee. 
 
 Senator Page. Let him have his own way about it. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Yes ; and if I lose it, I am the man who suffers. 
 
 Senator Robinson. But you do not seem to understand. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You are not the only man responsible. If we do- 
 not do justice to these people we are responsible. It is not a case 
 entirely between yourself and the Government. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is the very pivotal point in the case. 
 Why do you not get to it? 
 
 Mr. Thra^'es. Judge Robinson, you are a lawyer, and you under- 
 stand that lawyers have different ways of getting at things. I cer- 
 tainly do not want to displease the person I am trying to prevail 
 upon. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Take your own course. I shall not interfere 
 with you any more. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Thank you. As I was going to say, he who asks 
 equity must first do equity. The only way in which this resolution 
 would be conscionable at all would be that these people were the peo- 
 ple themselves, if you please. Those other 12, as I have tried to 
 illustrate to y6u, must be ready and willing and able to come back 
 and put all of this money back here — in other words, all of this 
 tribal property must be given back to the tribe so it could be divided. 
 
 Now I will address my remarks absolutely to the legal phase of 
 the case. But we must have something for the law to be based upon. 
 The law in this case is based upon the treaties with the Indians so 
 that on two conditions precedent there shall be a right to share in 
 the tribal land of the nation. One is that the citizen shall be entitled 
 to be enrolled as a citizen, and the next is that he must be living on 
 the 1st day of April, 1899. If those conditions are complied with, 
 then they lay down a further requirement, and that is that he shall 
 proceed to select his allotment, and if he is a minor and for any cause 
 does not select his allotment the Government will select an allotment 
 tor him through some proper person. We contend that when that 
 aUotment is selected you have not only shown your willingness under 
 
L XI.V/X xix.n.j.xv^xt i>±J_,xj, 
 
 tzi 
 
 the treaty to give up your communal right but you have actually 
 ^ven it up ; you can not get it back and you must stand on your selec- 
 tion, provided they can give you a title. 
 
 In support of that proposition I will call the committee's attention 
 to the following cases. If those members of the committees who 
 were here Saturday will bear with me, I will read these extracts from 
 two other cases that I read to them. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You need not read them. I will read them in 
 the printed record. 
 
 ISIr. Thraves. If you will do that it will be all that is necessary. 
 I want to read one case that is absolutely in point that I did not read, 
 the case of Thompson v. Rhoades (206 Fed., 895), where it is 
 held 
 
 Senator Robinson. Have you that case here? 
 
 Mr. Thpaves. I have not that case here, but we can get it. I will 
 just read what that holds : 
 
 Thtit selection and designation of allotment by a member of the tribe entitled 
 thereto is all that the law requires to fix the interest of the allottee to the laud 
 selected. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Do you know Avhat tribe that was^ 
 Mr. Reed. It was the intermarried Chickasaws. 
 Mr. Thra^t:s. 
 
 Second, that after selection and before certificate or patent issues the allottee 
 may convey the allotment and confer title on the purchaser. Third, that by 
 relation the patent when it subsequently issues becomes effective on the date 
 of selection. 
 
 That is the case that I did not read the other day, and it is a case 
 that is directly in point. 
 
 Now, here is another case in ^ olume 216 of the United States Re- 
 ports. It is the case of Ballinger. Secretary of the Interior r. The 
 United States, ex. rel. Frost : 
 
 The power of supervision and correction vested in the Secretary of the In- 
 terior over Indian allotments is not unlimited and arbitrary. It can not be 
 exercised to deprive any person of land the title to which is lawfully vested. 
 However reluctant the court may be to interfere with the executive department 
 it must prevent attempted deprivation of lawfully acquired property, and it is 
 their duty to see that the rights that have become vesteil pursuant to legislation 
 of Congress are not disturbed by any action of an executive officer. 
 
 The head of the department of the fiovernment is bound by the provisions of 
 congressional legislation which he cau not violate, however laudable may be his 
 motives. 
 
 Now, that is a case that has great bearing on this resolution. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, I would like to invite attention to the 
 tact that certificate of allotment had not issued in this case, and we 
 contend that if the certificate of allotment had issued to these parties 
 there would be no question as to their proper right. 
 
 Senator Robinson. In the other case which he cited, however, whicli 
 is the decision of the Federal court, the court discussed that particu- 
 lar question, and indicates that the allotment certificate was not neces- 
 sary to entitle the claimant to such title as she could convey it she 
 had in fact made the selection. In other words, that the allotment 
 certificate was mere evidence of the fact that the selection was made, 
 and it was upon the selection itself that the right vested. That was 
 the decision in this case that Mr. Thraves cited here, as far as i have 
 been able to read it. 
 
422 IN-OIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are citing the decision of the Supreme Court re- 
 cently handed down. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I was going to. say that I did not know what 
 view the Supreme Court had taken of the matter, but that case is in 
 point to that extent. 
 
 Mr. Thea-stss. In this case, after all the requirements of the act of 
 Congress providing for distribution of the Indian lands have been 
 complied with and the statutory period has lapsed without contest, 
 the title of the allottee becomes fixed and absolute and only the minis- " 
 terial duty of execution and delivery of patent remains for the Secre- 
 tarv of the Interior. You see that the court held here that it is a 
 ministerial act, and that is simply evidence of title. You see, Sena- 
 tor, that the right vests on the selection, as stated there they presume, 
 and I will go further and show you that they say the same thing here 
 as to the act of the Secretary in issuing the certificate — they are 
 issuing the evidence of title. 
 
 Now, in the same case on page 250 the court says : 
 
 The execution and delivery of patent after ttie right to it is complete, are the 
 mere ministerial acts of the officer charged with that duty. 
 
 In the case of Simmons v. Waggoner (101 U. S., 260-261), the 
 same Chief Justice repeated the proposition in these words: 
 
 Where the right to a patent has once become vested in a purchaser of public 
 land it is equivalent, so far as the Government is concerned, to a patent actu- 
 ally issued. The execution and delivery of the patent after the right to it has 
 become complete are the mere ministerial acts of the officer charged with that 
 duty. 
 
 Senator Clapp. What tribe does that relate to? 
 
 Mr. Thraves. This relates in the Ballinger case to either the Cher- 
 okees or Creeks, and it is exactly the same decision. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You know there was a vast difference in those 
 tribes ? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. No; the treaty with the Cherokees and Creeks was 
 substantially the same. ' 
 
 Senator Clapp. There was between the Choctaws and the Creeks. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. Yes. 
 
 Mr. J._E. Dawson (of the Indian Bureau). Mr. Chairman, I will 
 say that in reference to the Choctaws and Chickasaws and Cherokees 
 there was a provision of law which made the certificates that were 
 issued conclusive evidence of title. In the Creek case that was not so. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. I was going to say that they were not required to 
 issue a certificate of allotment, and only when they had issued it was 
 it sufficient evidence on which the department should put them into 
 possession of their allotments. It was a ministerial act. The Indian 
 had done all he could, and the actual issuing of the certificate had 
 nothing to do with it. 
 
 No further authority to consider the patentees' cnse remains in the Land 
 Office; no right to consider whether he ought in equity, on new information, 
 to have the title or receive the patent. There remains the duty, simply 
 ministerial, to deliver the patent to the owner— a duty which within all the 
 definitions can be enforced by the writ of mandamus. 
 
 Mr. Eeed. What is that volume? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Two hundred and sixteenth United States. Now, to 
 show you how the courts hold that the title vests, there was a woman 
 belonging to the Walla Walla Tribe of Indians who selected her 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 423 
 
 allotment, and the Secretary refused to give it to her because he 
 did not think she was entitled to allotment. That case is cited 
 in volume 194 United States, at page 401. He later decided that 
 some other allottee or citizen was entitled to allotment and gave it 
 to him. This woman was afterwards advised by him and the com- 
 missioners — the officers — that she had better select an allotment; if 
 she selected another allotment she would not surrender her rights to 
 her first selection, and she went on for years, and she selected another 
 allotment, and finally when she brought her suit to dispossess the 
 party to whom he had issued the patent she recovered on the ground 
 that her right had vested when she first selected it. 
 
 That case I have just stated I hope you will read. 
 
 Senator Clapp. There would be no question, of course, if the 
 allotment was made under the law of 1887 and the subsequent allot- 
 ment laws under which most of the tribes have taken their rights. 
 That la-w^ does not contain the provision that was contained in the 
 Creek law at all. The Choctaw law does not. The Choctaw law gives 
 nine months within which to make a contest, and after the nine 
 months is up then the right becomes a vested, initiate right, the 
 patent being the mere token of the title. That is the reason I have 
 asked you to read these cases and refer to the tribes that they re- 
 late to. 
 
 Mr. MoTT. Sixty days is the contest period in the Creek Nation. 
 
 Mr. Thea^'es. Some of those that I have cited here are the Creek 
 Tribe. I cited them here the other day, if you will remember. The 
 Henry Gas Co. was a Cherokee Tribe. We have one or two right 
 from the Creek Nation. 
 
 Senator Clapp. For instance, in this Thompson case, the very lan- 
 guage of the law under which they claim has the words — 
 
 selected, and its various modifications as applied to allotments and instruments 
 to be held to meet the formal application of the Lnnd Office, to be established 
 by the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes for the Choctaw and Chick- 
 asaw Nations for particular tracts of land. 
 
 There was no such language as that, as I recall it, in the Creek 
 act. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Yes, sir; the Creek act provides that after nine 
 months you can not contest it ; that one allottee has 60 days in which 
 to contest the filing of another, and in nine months afterwards he 
 can not do so. Of course anybody can contest a fraudulent allot- 
 ment at any time. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Oh, yes. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. In that regard, you will find the law to be the same 
 in these treaties and in the agreements with the Indians and acts of 
 Congress providing the same. 
 
 Senator Geonna. On Saturday you cited two other cases. Do 
 they relate to the Creek Nation ? . , ■ 
 
 Mr. Theaves. They relate to the Creek Nation. They are right m 
 the record. 
 
 Senator Geoxna. I simply wanted the record to bhow the fact. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Yes, sir. On Saturday I cited those. 
 
 Senator KoBiNSON. Did you cite the Sizemore case? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Yes, sir; I cited the Sizemore case. I called the 
 committee's attention to that in the beginning. Senator, lou see 
 in the last paragraph the court savs, "No selection having been 
 
424 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 made." In other words, it might as well have said, "If selection 
 had been made, this would be quite different. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. In my judgment, the authorities are a great 
 deal stronger for you than your alleged analogous case. 
 
 Mr. Thraves. That may be true. I am sorry that I bored the 
 judge one minute, but it is just the awkward way I had of making 
 
 the presentation. ,,, n,^-,, j.- -jit 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I want to ask Mr. Mentt a question, it 1 may. 
 You have examined the Sizemore case. Was that the case that you 
 referred to as having cited ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. "Wliat do you think is the principle m that case 
 that governs this one ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The principle in that case confirms our contention 
 that it is not only necessary to make a selection, but it is also neces- 
 sary to have a certificate of allotment issued in compliance with the 
 provisions of the Creek agreement which substantially says there 
 shall be a selection and, further, a certificate of allotment. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The Creek agreement then does not rest en- 
 tirely upon selection but rests upon selection and certificate? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I will read the language. It seems to me that is per- 
 fectly clear. 
 
 Mr. Thea-^-es. May I say that there is one thing that Senator 
 Page requested me on Saturday to reply to, and that was the propo- 
 sition as to whether or not these Indians would get their respective 
 interests in this property in case it is not taken from them by this 
 resolution. I can make that perfectly clear to the committee, that 
 they will get more than any other Indian has gotten for his allot- 
 ment in that agreement. Any one having anything to do with In- 
 dians is called a grafter in the West, and that extends to men who 
 have charge of Indian affairs here. I would like to present my 
 record, as far as that goes, as to my fair dealings with the Indians. 
 I could show you that all four of these allottees employed me to help 
 them, and showed that they had confidence in me. I have spent 
 thousands of dollars for which I have never received a cent, in 
 defending helpless Indian minors in Oklahoma, and the court 
 records will show that. In one case alone I spent over $6,000 in help- 
 ing a minor to get back her property. But I would not have any- 
 thing that is not fair. I may say, however, that I suggested to the 
 department, through the Creek national attorney, that the best 
 way to settle this matter would be to so arrange under this act that 
 the Creek Nation would get one-eighth of this oil land. I would be 
 willing to have that done rather than have it continue as it is now, 
 and let me carry out my contracts with the Indians, which I would 
 not in any way violate. I would not break them if I lost it all, be- 
 cause it would not be fair. I started in to deal with them and help 
 them. I will cany out my contracts with the Indians and pay to 
 the Government one-eighth if the gentlemen will join in assisting 
 a speedy prosecution of these cases. I want you to understand one 
 thing. Senator Eobinson, that if we do not get this litigation out of 
 the way and get the receivers out of the way, especially in the 
 Thlocco case, neither the Government nor my clients will ever get 
 anything of value. 
 
 Senator Robinson. They are operating under that lease, are they 
 not — under a court lease? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 425 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Yes, sir; that will absolutely take away the entire 
 value ot the property, including the royalty. 
 
 Senator EoBiNSON. What is being done with the oil that is beine 
 extracted rrom the land? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. The oil is being extracted by the Black Panther Oil 
 Co. on a three-fourths basis. They take three-fourths and leave one- 
 fourth for whoever recovers, but they are charging the improvements 
 against the one-fourth. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What improvements? 
 
 Mr. Thea^-es. The improvements of drilling the wells— not drill- 
 ing but actual permanent improvements, which are seven to eight 
 thousand dollars per well. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is that under the court's order ? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Yes, sir ; on each well. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It provides that the owners shall pay for the 
 improvements ? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. It is the result of misapprehension by people who 
 are over-zealous and who do not understand the oil business. When 
 the contract was made I intended to break it up, and started to do so, 
 but not being a party to the suit, I was unable to do anything except 
 talk about it a little, and they assured me there would be a speedy 
 disposition of this case. 
 
 Senator Robinson. It is operated pending the suit, is it? 
 
 Mr. Thea^tis. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The royalty is very much larger than the usual 
 royalty, but do you think a counterprovision authorizing the charg- 
 ing of permanent improvements will in the end leave whoever owns 
 the property with the land as a shell, the oil being extracted, and 
 the improvements, which, of course, will be av orth nothing in that 
 event? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. That is exactly it. You can figure it just this way : 
 Forty wells would cost, at $6,000 to $8,000 a well, over a quarter of a 
 million of dollars. They would only get the quarter of a million of 
 dollars when they get the required royalty. When they are through 
 the Government would be in debt, even if the Creek Nation wins. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is taking it for granted that the expense 
 of improvements will be as great as you think it will be ? 
 
 Mr. Theaves. These figures tell. The well costs $12,000 and the 
 permanent improvements, which are represented by the casings or 
 tubing and tankage, buildings and all those things, drilling and for 
 caring for the oil — those are the permanent improvements — it will 
 cost, I can say conservatively, from $7,000 to $8,000; I said from 
 $6,000 to $8,000, but it will be from $7,000 to $8,000. Now, you can 
 see what 40 wells would amount to. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you want to complete this matter this afternoon, 
 Senator Robinson? 
 
 Senator Robinson. I have no preference in the matter. 
 
 Mr. Theaves. Mr. Chairman, I am. through. I desire to thank 
 the committee for the kindness it has shown me. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that the committee adjourn. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to, and at 4 o'clock and 30 minutes p. m. 
 the committee adjourned until to-morrow, January 26, 1915, at 10.30 
 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 TUESDAY, JANUARY 26, 1915. 
 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Clapp, Page, Townsend, 
 La Follette, and Gronna. 
 
 FARMING AND GRAZING LEASES. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I have an amendment to present, as follows : 
 
 That no farming or grazing lease executed by a member or members of the 
 Five Civilized Tribes covering lands from vcbich restrictions upon alienation 
 have not been removed shall be valid unless approved by some officer or officers 
 located in the State of Oklahoma designated by the Secretary of the Interior 
 for that purpose, under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe: Pro- 
 vided, That all such leases shall be either approved or disapproved by the officer 
 or officers designated by the Secretary of the Interior for that purpose within 
 thirty days after said leases shall have been completed a.nd filed with the officer 
 subject to whose approval the lease is executed. • 
 
 Senator Page. Is not the purpose of that to transfer the authority 
 from where it now rests to an Oklahoma official? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The Indians are now, under existing law, permitted 
 to lease their surplus agricultural lands for a period not to exceed 
 five years. That privilege has been very greatly abused and the land 
 speculators have gotten one lease piled upon another, and it is ac- 
 cordingly difficult to handle the lands of the Indians to any ad- 
 vantage. 
 
 Senator Page. Has there been no overseeing power upon the part 
 of the department? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Our hands are tied under existing law, because they 
 can lease their lands for five years. Senator Owen said that an 
 amendment would be agreeable, provided that it was so worded 
 that it would not take an indefinite time to get those leases approved 
 and if leases could be approved promptly by local authorities. 
 
 Senator Page. You want that done, do you? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we would like to have this legislation. 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to.) 
 
 PROBATE matters, FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES. 
 
 Senator Townsend. There is an item on page 30, line 10, reading: 
 
 For salaries and expenses of such attorneys and ^tl^^r employees as the Secre^ 
 
 tary of the Interior may, in his discretion deem "^ece^^'l^^p^Xle^ bribes 
 
 probate matters affecting individual allottees m the Five Civilized iribes, 
 
 $85,000. 427 
 
428 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 You have passed those items, have you? 
 
 The Chaiemais-. That is approved, unless you want to recur to it. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I just wanted to ask the commissioner what 
 arrangement you have with the State authorities down there whereby 
 these attorneys that you are speaking about can operate. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There has been drafted a set of rules and regulations 
 governing probate matters in Oklahoma, which have been approved 
 by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and by the local association 
 of judges, and by the Supreme Court of Oklahoma. Those regu- 
 lations are in the nature of cooperative agreements, and our pro- 
 bate attorneys are working in harmony with the local judges of the 
 courts having jurisdiction of these estates. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Have they any jurisdiction at all over these 
 matters under your present arrangemejit, unless the legislature acts 
 with reference to it? Your last year's contracts, or the year before 
 arrangement was on the understanding that the Legislature of 
 Oklahoma was to enact a law, was it not? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No. sir; those regulations are still in force even if 
 the State of Oklahoma does not enact a law, and they have the ap- 
 proval of the county judges, the district judges, and the judges of 
 the Supreme Court of Oklahoma. 
 
 Senator Townsend. So you state there is nothing dependent upon 
 the action of the legislature ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Of course, we would very much desire that the Leg- 
 islature of the State of Oklahoma pass laws in line with these regu- 
 lations that have been adopted, but the local courts are now cooperat- 
 ing with our probate attorneys in protecting the estates of Indians 
 as they have never done before. 
 
 Senator Townsend. You intended that the legislature would act 
 last year on this proposition, did you not? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. We hope that this present legislature will enact a 
 probate law that is along the lines of the i-egulations that have been 
 adopted. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you state if the legislature refuses to pass 
 such a provision that these courts can still operate in connection 
 with the Federal GoA^ernment? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt'. Yes, sir. The act of 1908 gave the local courts of 
 Oklahoma jurisdiction over the estates of minor Indians in certain 
 particulars. Of course, they could not sell their lands or remove 
 restrictions without the approval of the Secretary of the Interior, 
 but they had certain jurisdiction over the probating of the estates. 
 They have that jurisdiction now, and will continue to have it as long 
 as the law remains on the statute books. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I was looking it over last evening a little, and 
 it occurred to me that there was some provision brought out some- 
 where relating to a statement that within a year the legislature was 
 to have acted in reference to the matter, and it failed to do it. I 
 thought you would be familiar with it, and I want to look further 
 into it. I did not have time because I had nothing at hand when it 
 occurred to me. I know that we are appropriating money for Fed- 
 eral aid to the courts of Oklahoma that are supposed to do this 
 business. Under the law it is their business to attend to it. But we 
 are appropriating $85,000 as a gratuity to assist in the matter. I am 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 429 
 
 wondering if there is any statute that will finally prohibit that, what 
 you are going to do with that $85,000? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This money can be used to great advantage. Our 
 records show that we have saved the minor Indians in Oklahoma a 
 very large amount of money. The local courts in eastern Oklahoma 
 are crowded as no other courts in the United States are crowded 
 with probate business, because the fact that we have 100,000 enrolled 
 citizens in the Five Civilized Tribes, and about 35,000 of those citi- 
 zens are full-blood Indians, and they have more probate business in 
 the 40 counties of eastern Oklahoma than any other counties in the 
 United States, and it is absolutely impossible for those local courts, 
 however much they may desire to protect the estates of Indians, 
 to give those estates the careful attention that they should receive. 
 We have established cooperative arrangements and regulations and 
 are acting in harmony with the local courts in protecting those 
 estates. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I know that is the theory, and I am in great 
 sympathy with it. That is the reason I voted for it. I am in doubt 
 about some provisions, but I will not talk about it further until I 
 am better posted. I will try to find out between this and to-morrow. 
 
 The Chairman. I should like to insert in the record at this point 
 a statement of the status of the probate work in the Five Civilized 
 Tribes, Oklahoma. 
 
 (The statement referred to is as follows :) 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 Office Commissioner of Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, January 22, 1915. 
 My Dear Senator: Herewith find statement concerning probate worl^ in 
 Oklahoma during the eight months ending December 1, 1914, about which we 
 tallied on the car a few days ago. 
 
 I am also sending you under separate cover copy of my annual report, on page 
 50 of which you will find reference to Oklahoma probate matters. 
 
 Sincerely, yours, 
 
 Cato Sells, Commissioner. 
 
 Hon. Henry P. Ashubst, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 Status of prolate work in the Five Civilized TriMs, Oklahoma, and summary of 
 work performed by the probate attorneys from Apr. 1 to Deo. 1, 19lJf. 
 
 1. Number of probate cases pending Jan. 1, 1914 33, 967 
 
 2. Number of probate cases pending Dec. 1, 1914 **. »^d 
 
 3. Number of regular cases in which probate attorneys appeared 12, 254 
 
 4. Number of civil actions— '^^ 
 
 5. Number of criminal actions i 014 
 
 6. Number of new bonds filed ^' iit 
 
 7. Number of guardians removed or discharged 0^0 
 
 8. Conservation of funds through deposits and mvestments — *7l», rfuu 
 
 9. Amounts saved to minors and orphans through protests, exceptions, ^^^ 
 
 suits, etc * ' 
 
 In connection with above, a vast amount of work has ^een l^rformed by the 
 probate attorneys In other matters, the data relative to.^^J^^^^^h fill hereafter b^ 
 compiled under the following heads: "Number of mherited land sales Num^ 
 
 ber of minor allotment sales;" '' Number of citations issued to gu.^^^^^^^ 
 "Number of quit-claim deeds obtained;" " dumber of official letters and re 
 ports; " "Approximate number of conferences with allottees and others. 
 
430 INDIAN APPEOPBrA.TION BILL. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that the committee do now adjourn until 
 10 o'clock to-morrow morning. 
 
 (Thereupon, at 10.45 a. m., the committee adjourned until to- 
 morrow, Wednesday, January 27, 1915, at 10 o'clock a. m.) 
 
 WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 27, IdlS. 
 
 The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman). Lane, Thompson, Clapp, 
 Page, and Gronna. 
 
 PEE CAPITA PAYMENTS TO CHOCTAWS AND CHICKASAWS. 
 
 The Chairman. I have a large number of letters from citizens in 
 Oklahoma urging the per capita payment to Choctaws and Chicka- 
 saws, which I will have insierted in the record. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I also have a number of letters on the same sub- 
 ject. I take it they are the same as yours. They would only be a 
 duplication. 
 
 (The letters referred to are as follows:) 
 
 [Telegram.] 
 
 Talihina, Okla., January 22, 1915. 
 Hon. Henet F. Ashubst, Washington, D. C. 
 
 As a member of the Choctaw Tribe feel it necessary to inform you of the 
 needy circumstances of the Choctaw people, and many of the older ones are 
 suffering. A payment is necessary to carry them over to the next crop time. 
 Urge Choctaw per capita payment. 
 
 J. W. Anderson. 
 
 [Telegram.] 
 
 Talihina, Okla., January 22, 1915. 
 Hon. Henet F. Ashuest, Washington, D. 0.: 
 
 Urge Choctaw-Chickasaw payment. Members of tribe needy ; some desti- 
 tute. All account of low prices in cotton. Older Indians are almost poverty 
 stricken. A payment would mean much relief to our Choctaw people. 
 
 J. H. CUETIS. 
 
 [Telegram.] 
 
 Talihina, Okla., January 22, 1915. 
 Hon. Henet F. Ashuest, Washington, D. C: 
 
 I wish to say that we Choctaw Indians need money with which to carry us 
 through to the next crop. We are in actual need. I ask you to assist us in 
 urging this per capita payment bill through for the Choctaw people. 
 
 J. H. Bacon. 
 
 [Telegram.] 
 
 Talihina, Okla., January 22, 1915. 
 Hon. Henet F. Ashuest, Washington, D. C: 
 
 On account of depression in price of cotton the people of this section are in 
 financial stringency. IMost of the full-blood Choctaw Indians reside in this 
 section of Oklahoma and are in a very critical condition. They are in actual 
 need. A small payment will mean much relief. 
 
 S. L. Chowning. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 431 
 
 [Telegram.] 
 
 Talihina, Okla., January 22, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashtjrst, Washington, D. 0.: 
 
 Being a member of the Choctaw Tribe I feel it my duty to inform you that 
 there never was a time before when our Choctaw people were in such needv 
 circumstances as they are now. We must have some relief, and ask vour 
 honor to urge payment bill passed immediately. 
 
 C J. Anderson. 
 
 „ „ _ , Home, Okla., January 18, 1915. 
 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashtjrst, » , -j. 
 
 Chairman Indian Committee, United States Senate, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 
 Dear Senator: I am full-blood Choctaw Indian and I take pleasure in 
 
 writing to you a few lines. I want to inform you that I am opposed to the 
 
 opening of the roll to Mississippi Choctaws, because they are not entitled 
 
 to enrollment either by law or treaties. We Oklahoma Choctaws do not feel 
 
 like giving up properties belonging to us. We had a general convention of 
 
 Oklahoma Choctaws last fall and we passed resolutions opposing the enrollment 
 
 of Mississippi Choctaws. We ask the Government to protect our rights. I 
 
 want the money that belongs to me. We Choctaws need a per capita payment 
 
 of at least $200. Will you please take care of my interest in the Senate? 
 
 Please do not let them have the money, because it don't belong to them. Please 
 
 let me hear from you what you can do. 
 
 Tours, truly, 
 
 Joel McCubtin. 
 
 Talihina, Okla., January 20, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. C. 
 
 Dear Sir: As I am the only living ex-governor of the Choctaw Nation, and 
 have been closely connected with tribal affairs for more than 40 years, I believe 
 I know something of the real conditions of the Indian as he is now living in 
 the Choctaw Nation. 
 
 His condition to-day Is more lamentable than as a tribe; we were compelled to 
 live upon our own cornmeal and hunt for the game, for at that time our people 
 knew what to expect. 
 
 Conditions have now changed and in trying to keep step with and imitate the 
 white man, many of our people have fallen in debt and now. as times continue 
 close, they are without credit. A full-blood Indian, with all expectancy, has 
 less credit at the banks than a one-mule cotton-growing negro. 
 
 Our Government has always rendered assistance whenever possible to the un- 
 fortunate, and the Indian as well as the white man who is able to contribute 
 to the downtrodden Belgian ; at this time the Indian is asking only for what is 
 justly his. 
 
 I am writing you a true statement of facts, hoping that the Indian will get 
 the per capita payment at this session of Congress and that a tremendous effort 
 will be put forth for the passage of this bill. 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 G. W. Dukes. 
 
 [Telegram.] 
 
 Talihina, Okla., January 22, 1915. 
 
 Hon. Henet F. Ashubst, 
 
 Washington, D. C: 
 The Choctaw people of Oklahoma are at the mercy of Congress, not for jus- 
 tice alone, but because of the fact we are in that destitute circumstances. We 
 must pay our grocery bills and other accounts necessary to keep us alive until 
 
 we can get another crop payment urged. „ -^ -^^ 
 
 Ex-Gov. G. W. Dukes. 
 
432 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 McAlestee, Okla., January 20, 1915. 
 Hon. Henet F. Ashuest, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. G. 
 Dear Sib : I am a Chickasaw and on the roll as the same. And, account of an 
 accident while working in oil fields, am in need of my money or .such jiayment 
 as is coming to me; and any assistance through you would be greatly appre- 
 ciated. 
 
 Yours, very respectfully, 
 
 EsAN Wolf, 
 427 South Main Street. 
 
 427 South Main Street, 
 McAlesteb, Okla., January 20, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashijbst. 
 
 Dear Sir: I am an enrolled member of the Oklahoma Chocktaw Tribe of 
 Indians and in need of this money ; and all of the Ohoctaws need their money 
 what is due them, and we would be glad if you could get this payment at once, 
 as we are all in great need of it. 
 
 Very respectfully, Abbte Williams. 
 
 McAlesteb, Okla., January 20, 1915. 
 
 Hon. Henby F. Ashtjest, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. 0. 
 Dear Sib: I wish to inform you that I am an old Choctaw lady and am in 
 great need of my payment. Any assistance from you would be greatly appre- 
 ciated. 
 
 Yours, respectfully, Mrs. Nancy Beenon, 
 
 ^27 South Main Street. 
 
 Cabaniss, Okla., January 20, 1915. 
 Deae Sib : As my conditions are, I will write you a few lines as the people 
 are in a hard condition. As the crop year has been almost a failure, it has 
 left the Indians in a hard shape, so I would like to have the payment, for I 
 don't know how I can get by without it. If we ever needed a payment, now is 
 the time, as I never got nothing out of my crop on account of the drought; it 
 has left me in a hard shape, and there is 4 acres of my place that I never 
 got a cent out of. So I have a family and it leaves me in a hard shape. If it 
 was just me, I would ask no questions, but for my family's sake would like to 
 have the payment, and the other Indians around are going to be in a bad shape. 
 Yours, truly, 
 
 Samuel Johnson. 
 
 McAxestee, Okla., January 20, 1915. 
 Hon. Heney F. Ashuest, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. G. 
 Dear Sir: The condition of the Ohoctaws and a possible delay of the per 
 capita payment have encouraged me to write you a few lines relative to the 
 Indians of this part of Oklahoma. I have been living in McAlester for some 
 time and aim familiar with the needs of these people. 
 
 The low price of cotton has deprived this part of the State of its surplus 
 cash, and the person to feel it the most of the Indian. He depends on the 
 success of his white neighbor, and when he can expect no help from that 
 quarter he is left in a critical condition. Credits at the country stores have 
 been paralyzed and everything is on a cash basis, so you can realize the posi- 
 tion of the Indian. 
 
 If you can do anything to relieve the needs of these poor people, you will 
 be a godsend to them. I will appreciate very highly any attention you give 
 my letter. 
 
 Respectfully, Rev. D. Vincent, 
 
 St. John's Catholic Ghurch. 
 
i-±N-mAJN Ai'l'KOl'HIATION BILL. 43c5 
 
 MiLLERTON, Okla., January tS, 1915. 
 Henkt F. Ashubst, Washington, D. C. 
 
 Dear Sib: We wish to write you a few lines tills morning. Well, dear Sena- 
 tor, we understand tlie Indian bill passed tlie House and is going to the Senate 
 in a few days. AVe understand you are on the Committee on Indian Affairs of 
 the United States Senate, and we wish to ask you to do what you can for 
 the Ohoctaws. We do not know whether you know the condition of the Ohoc- 
 taws in the Choctaw Nation, but on account of short crops I'nr the past two years 
 the Choctaws are in bad shape and the older ones are dying, and it would be 
 great justice to the Choctaws to have this payment made in order to help 
 us Choctaws to make a crop. 
 
 So we know you have great influence in the Senate and in Washington, and 
 we knowing this we have hopes that you can do us Choctaws to whom this 
 money belongs great good by working hard; flght for us and get this Indian 
 bill past the Senate and approved ; by so doing we will pray for you and all 
 others that help us in the Senate, and we are sure God will bless you more. 
 As to the roll being opened and admitting the Choctaws from Mississippi, we 
 the Choctaws on the roll and living here in the Choctaw Nation are not in 
 favor of them to ever be put on the roll with us, for they have no right at 
 this time, for we asked them to come to this country years ago and they did 
 not; now after our property is about to be settled and divided up, now they 
 come and protest against our affairst. Now, dear Senator, you know and under- 
 stand this matter as well as anyone in Washington ; we have great faith in you 
 doing something good for the Choctaws. We the Choctaw people are asking 
 the great Government to make a settlement with us and wind up our affairs 
 as early as possible. We know that there will never come a time when we will 
 need the money any more than we need it now, and we feel that if we do 
 not get a settlement while the bill is before the House and Senate this time 
 that it will be several years before it will come up again. Let the Government 
 give us what is ours and we are all right ; we will take care of ourselves. 
 
 We will. appreciate anything you can do for us, and would be pleased to hear 
 
 from you. 
 
 John A. Gaeland. 
 Cakrie Gaedner. 
 D. A. Fowler. 
 William R. Fowler. 
 
 iloALESTKR, Okla., Jainiary 20, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashuest, 
 
 United States Senate, Wa.'ihington, D. C. 
 Dear Sib- I am a full-blood Indian, and I want to tell you about this pay- 
 ment We need the money and need it worse than for a long time. Our land 
 has brought us verv little and we did not make much, so we have no money to 
 buy enough to eat "and warm clothes. This is bad winter for us. and we will 
 be very glad if you give us some money. The stores will not sell on credit, so 
 some time we have very little to eat. 
 Please try to pass this payment as soon as you can. 
 
 Yours, truly, ^^^^^^^^ j^^^^^^ 
 
 Dtjrant, Okla., January 21, 1915. 
 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashuest, 
 
 Chairman Senate Indian Committee. 
 My Dear Sir: I would be pleased to have you foP^rate with our Senator 
 Hon. Robert L. Owen, in passing the bill "o^^^^^f ore Congress ';PPJP"'it^°| 
 moneys out of the funds now on deposit to the credit of tlie Clwctaw and 
 Chickasaw Indians and providing for a per capita Payment to sad Indians. 
 We are justly entitled to this, and in strict justice should ha^e the same. 
 
 Thanking you, I am, j^^^^^ Culberson. 
 
 82833— VOL 1—15 28 
 
434 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 MoAxESTEK, Okla., January 20, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashubst, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. C. ' 
 
 Deab Sik: I am full-blood Indian and I have wife and three children. We 
 have had a hard time this winter and we need money. The merchants do not 
 let us have on credit, so some time we can not buy at all, because we have no 
 money. We can not barrow on land, and crop was no good, so we are in a bad 
 fix. I want to buy clothes for my wife and children and something enough to 
 eat. It seems like no cash no buy. 
 Try to help pass the payment bill soon. 
 Yoxirs, truly, 
 
 Nelson Pickens. 
 
 McAlestkr, Okla., January 20, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashuest, 
 
 United States Senate. Washington, D. G. 
 Dear Sir : As I have saw one of your cards with instructions to write to you 
 regarding our desire for a payment to be made as early as possible, I will say 
 we will never need it any more than we do now, as we will be very hard pressed 
 to tide over this season v\'ithout help from some source. Trusting to you to use 
 your best efforts in securing us relief, I am. 
 Respectfully, yours, 
 
 John Folsom, 
 Roll No. 8180, Choctaw. 
 
 McAlester, Okla., January 20, 1915. 
 Henry F. Asi-iTJiiST, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 Dear Sir: I am writing to ask your earnest efforts to secure the per capita 
 payment of $200 to Choctaws and $100 to the Chickasaws now in the Indian 
 appropriation bill. I w.-is one of the commissioners who negotiated the Atoka 
 agreement, and Wesley Anderson and myself were selected to go to Washington 
 and have Congress ratify. Afterwards, at the suggestion of the principal chief, 
 we visited nearly two-thirds of the full bloods and in public addresses and 
 private appeals secured its ratification by a good majority of the Choctaws. I 
 give you these facts that you may understand I have had a chance to know 
 something about Choctnw affairs. Kow, Senator, I want to make just one point 
 with you, .ind that is this: The Choctaws took the initiative in recognizing the 
 Inevitable (i. e., we must treat, right or wrong) and made the first agreement ; we 
 bore the brunt of ridicule and cussing from the other tribes for treating. You 
 know, as I do, that the Mississippi Choctaws were not consulted and, had they 
 protested against our treating, would not hii\e been considered for one minute, 
 because we had formed and kept up our nation; we were the government, and 
 you trented with us. The rights given the Mississippi Choctaws in our agree- 
 ments was at the suggestion of the Choctaw commissioners, and was giveo 
 them because they were our blood and bone, and not as a matter of law. 
 Everyone who came was given all his rights freely and gladly; and now at 
 this late day. eight years after the time you promised all that is coming to us, 
 to hold up our money at the instigation of a lobby, now a public fact, after inves- 
 tigation by the House committee, isn't carrying fair with us. We are entitled 
 to fair treatment ; we ask you to be fair with us ; nothing more, nothing less. 
 The time and -opportunity is present to be fair with your friends just one time. 
 Of course, when I say you, I mean the United States Senate. 
 
 I conclude by asking you to support the payment. 
 Tours, truly, 
 
 N. B. AiNSWORTH. 
 
 KiGGGiNS, Okla., January 21, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashttrst, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. C. 
 My Dear Sir : I will drop you a few lines this afternoon in regard to Choc- 
 taw and Chickasaw capita payment. We are very anxious to receive this 
 payment, for we are in hard circumstances for money and everything else. 
 There was no corn or cotton made last year: further, we were already in hard 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 435 
 
 shape, anywiiy, for we haven't any uiouey to improve our land so we could 
 hare income to live on. There are a good many Choctaws and Chickasaws 
 livins around here or living in the State of Oklahoma. They have land all right, 
 but they have or I have no money to put improvement on this land so as we 
 could have some money come from this land. So we or all of us Choctaws and 
 Chickasaws are very anxious for this capita payment to come, so we have some 
 money to improve our land, for there is a good many old people among those 
 two tribes of Indians suffering for need of food and shelter. So we put this 
 matter with you all to do something for us so we are understand that bill 
 that in regard Choctaw and Chickasaw capita payment has go before Senate. 
 So we ask you good people to do something for us and' help us, for anybody 
 need help we are the one. So we hope that you will take hand and put this 
 bill to the front and give us capita payment right at once. 
 
 So we, thanking in advance, my dear Senator Ashurst. So I am in hopes 
 that you will succeed in getting this bill through. 
 Tours, truly, 
 
 Isaac C. King, FulJ-Blond Chociaic. 
 
 Savanna, Okla., January 22, 1915. 
 
 Dear Sik : I will write to you for this time. Well, I am going to say this 
 way; north people is our own father to all Indian ; that what they told to Indian 
 after the war ; the now you all going to let we all your children starving 
 to death here cause we can got know work here are knovs' crate in store and 
 know crop here for three four years here and flit to make and I aint got nothing 
 but house full children the all on starving and the all nile nicket and if that 
 money if it belong to us we want if it don't belong to us Indian toll us so cause 
 made it bead cause no turke or no deer or other kind that we could laving it 
 long time ago we could pick up old rifle and just step in the little ways to 
 wood kill what we want to eat ; but we can flnd nothing that reason we all up 
 against this time. 
 
 Well, I will close for this time. 
 
 Tours, truly, Jim Nail. 
 
 CHOCTAW INDIANS IN MISSISSIPPI JURISDICTION OF COURT OF CLAIMS. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I desire to present an amendment which was 
 given to me by Senator Williams, with reference to the Choctaw In- 
 dians in his State. I have also talked with Senator Vardaman, and 
 they are both anxious that we should consider this amendment. 
 With the permission of the chairman I will read it. It is suggested 
 that the amendment be inserted on page 58, line 8, after the word 
 " act." It is as follows : 
 
 Provided further, however. That the Court of Claims is hereby granted juris- 
 diction to try and decide the following questions of difference arising out 
 of treaty stipulations between the United States Government and the Choc- 
 taw Indians: First, whether any identifled or unidentified Choctaw Indians 
 of the full blood or one-half blood, who now live m Mississippi and whose 
 names do not appear upon the final rolls of the Choctaw Nation, are entitled 
 to any privileges of Choctaw citizenship, or any legal or equitable right in the 
 tribal property of the Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma, second and whether they 
 have any legal or equitable claims against the Government of tbe IJmted States^ 
 
 That said Court of Claims in trying and deciding said question is hereby 
 granted authority to consider the actions of the Choctaw Nation the treat^s 
 between the Choctaw Nation and the United States Government the laws 
 passed by Congress, the decisions of the commissioners, and judgments of courts, 
 and to try and decide the entire questions of diffeience de novo. 
 
 That any claimant as a Mississippi Choctaw who is not °o^ "P°°, /^'^^ii^J 
 rolls of the Choctaw Nation shall have the right for and o^^behaU of himself 
 and any other claimants as Mississippi Choctaws to ^egm the ascertainment of 
 the judgment of the Court of Claims on said ^^el^ons by fil ng m the Court of 
 Claims a petition stating the facts upon which said Mississippi Cboctews base 
 their claims for enrollment upon the final rolls of the Choctaw Nation, and in 
 
436 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 all respects tlie rules and practices of the Court of Claims shall be followed 
 and the Court of Claims giving said cases, when filed, preference on the docket, 
 and shall transmit its findings to the Congress of the United States. 
 
 Mr. Chairman, the members who are here know as much about 
 this proposition and, perhaps, more than I do, but I recollect that 
 the delegation from the State of Mississippi was before this com- 
 mittee last year when we had our hearings, and they made some show- 
 ing, and I think it would be well to permit the Court of Claims to 
 act upon the question. I see no reason why it should not be submitted 
 in that way, and let the court say whether or not they have any legal 
 right or any standing or any claim either against the Choctaw Indians 
 or against the Government. I had a similar bill passed for the Sioux 
 Indians in the State of North Dakota, where they claimed to have 
 money coming from the Government of the United States with ref- 
 erence to a treaty, which was made away back in 1853. In my judg- 
 ment, it is a good way to dispose of matters of this kind. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on the adoption of the amendment. 
 I do not think we are prepared to vote on that this morning. I think 
 we should wait until Senator Owen is present. 
 
 Senator Page. I think that would be the proper procedure. 
 
 The Chairman. I suggest that we hand this to the clerk of the 
 committee and have him make several copies for the members of 
 the committee. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I think it would be well to change the language 
 to read "hear and determine." 
 
 The Chairman. That action will be taken on the proposed amend- 
 ment. 
 
 The Chairman. The committee will now proceed to consider the 
 amendment proposed by Senator La FoUette with regard to the 
 Stockbridge and Munsee Indians in Wisconsin, which makes an ap- 
 propriation of $90,000 to pay the members of the Stockbridge and 
 Munsee Tribe of Indians enrolled under the act of March 3, 1893, 
 the amount of payments made prior to their respective enrollments, as 
 follows : 
 
 [H. R. 12207, 03a Cons?.. 2a Sess.] 
 
 A BILL Providing for an appropriation to pay tlie members of the Stockbridge and 
 Munsee Tribe of Indians enrolled under the act of March 3, 1893, the amount of pay- 
 ments made prior to their respective enrollments, 
 
 Be it enacted hy the Senate and Souse of Representatives of the United States 
 of America in Congress assemhled. That there is hereby appropriated the sum 
 of $90,000 for the payment to the" members of the Stockbridge and Munsee 
 Tribe of Indians who were enrolled under the act of Congress of March third, 
 eighteen hundred and ninety-three, equal amounts to the amounts paid to the 
 other members of said tribe prior to the enrollment under said act, and such 
 payments be made upon the certificate and order of the Commissioner of 
 Indian Affairs upon claims being filed with him, showing to his satisfaction 
 that such claimants, or the ancestors of such claimants, were enrolled, or found 
 by the Commissioner of Indian AfCairs entitled to be enrolled, under the 
 act of March third, eighteen hundred and ninety-three, entitled "An act for 
 the relief of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribe of Indians of the State of 
 Wisconsin." 
 
 The Chairman. You will recall that I read at some length a let- 
 ter signed by the Assistant Secretary of the Interior urging the 
 adoption of that amendment, and, if my memory serves me correctly, 
 
INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 437 
 
 Mr. Meritt, the Assistant Commissioner, urged the adoption of the 
 legislation that is now before us. Am I correct in that? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. Yes, sir. The office would be glad to see enacted the 
 legislation proposed by Senator La FoUette. I have the letter here, 
 Mr. Chairman. 
 
 The Chairman. I would be glad to have that go into the record. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think that following the discussion a 
 suggestion was made by, it seems to me, Senator Eobinson, that 
 there ought to be some provision fixing a time limit within which 
 the whole matter should be closed up — some provision for notice 
 that would bring in any other claimants, if there are any other claim- 
 ants. I have added to that amendment, as proposed the other day, 
 this proviso : 
 
 Provided, however. That no claim shall be allowed or paid unless the same 
 is now on file, or shall be filed with said Commissioner of Indian Affairs on or 
 before January first, nineteen hundred and sixteen. And it is hereby made the 
 duty of said Commissioner of Indian Affairs to mail a printed copy of this 
 provision of this act to each of the enrolled members of said tribe, within thirty 
 days after the approval of this act, and to cause to be posted at five or more 
 public places on the Stockbridge Indian Reservation, in the State of Wisconsin, 
 notices in due form containing the above provision. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I may say that these Indians are almost 
 wholly in Wisconsin. There was a complete and exhaustive state- 
 ment made here in this case a 3'ear ago — it is dated January 23, 
 1913 — ^is that not correct, Mr. Mentt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It covers this case much more completely 
 that the letter of Mr. Jones that was sent here a few days ago and 
 read. I take it this is a correct statement of the case, Mr. Meritt. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; that is a correct statement. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I should like to read this letter into the 
 record. I regret that there are not more members of the committee 
 present, because I think a knowledge of the facts makes this case 
 one that there can be no two opinions about. This letter is a com- 
 prehensive and full statement of the case. It is addressed to me, 
 and is as follows : 
 
 Department of the Intebior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, January 23. 191S. 
 
 Hon. Robert M. La Follette, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 Sib: In response to your letter of January 8, 1913, inclosing a communication 
 from August G. Schmidt, of Shawano, Wis., concerning moneys alleged to be 
 due certain Stockbridge and Munsee Indians, I have the honor to advise you as 
 follows: 
 
 About 350 claims have been filed by Stockbridge Indians for shares m pay- 
 ments made to the tribe from the third quarter of the fiscal year 1874, to the 
 second quarter of the fiscal year 1894. These payments were made to persons 
 enrolled in 1874 as members of the tribe, under the provisions of the act of 
 February 6, 1871 (16 Stat, 404W07), section 6 of which reads as follows. 
 
 "Sec. 6. And be it further enacted, That for the purpose of determining the 
 persons who are members of said tribes and the ^ "t^rf^J.^l^, ^ °^,jff 
 Government of the United States, there shall be prepared ""^der the^ diretcion 
 of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, or such person as may be selected by 
 him to superintend the same, two rolls, one to ^e denominated the at z^n 
 roU, to embrace the names of all such persons of ^"^^6,, ^^^.-^^^f '^j,*/To b1: 
 as signify their desire to separate their relations with said tr be, aM to be 
 come citizens of the United States; the other to be denominated the Indian roll, 
 
438 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 and to embrace the names of all such as desire to retain their tribal char- 
 acter and continue uiider the care and guardianship of the United States; 
 which said rolls shall be signed by the sachem and councillors of said tribe, 
 certified by the person superintending the same, and returned to the Commis- 
 sioner of Indian Affairs, but no person of full age shall be entered upon said 
 citizen roll without his or her full and free consent, personally given to the 
 person superintending such enrollment; nor shall any person, or his or her 
 descedants, be entered upon either of said rolls who may have heretofore sepa- 
 rated from said tribe and receive allotment of lands under the act of Congress 
 for the relief of the Stockbridge tribe of Indians, of March third, eighteen 
 hundred and forty-three, and amendement of August six, eighteen hundred and 
 forty-six, or under the treaty of February five, eighteen hundred and fifty-six, 
 or who shall not be of Stockbridge or Munsee descent. After the said rolls 
 shall be made and returned as herein provided, the same shall be held as a full 
 surrender and relinquishment on the part of the citizen party, each and every 
 one of them, of all claims to be thereafter known or considered as members of 
 said tribe, or in any manner interested in any provision heretofore or hereafter 
 to be made by any treaty or law of the "United States for the benefit of said 
 tribes, and they and their descendants shall thenceforth be admitted to all 
 the rights and privileges of citizens of the United States." 
 
 After the enrollment many persons who desired to remain under the control 
 of the Government complained that they had been forcibly prevented from 
 presenting themselves for enrollment, and after several investigations and 
 reports to Congress the following act was approved on March 3, 1893 (27 Stat., 
 744-745) : 
 
 " Chap. 219. — An act for the relief of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribe of Indians, in 
 
 tlie State of Wisconsin. 
 
 " Whereas a treaty was entered into on the fifth day of February, eighteen 
 
 hundred and fifty-six, by and between the Government of the United States 
 
 and the Stockbridge and Munsee Indians, in which the said Indians ceded 
 
 certain lands to the United States, and accepted in consideration thereof 
 
 certain lands as a reservation, to which said Indians removed, and upon 
 
 which they have ever since resided; and 
 
 " Whereas by the interpretation placed by Government officials on the act of 
 
 February sixth, eighteen hundred and seventy-one, an act for the relief of 
 
 said Indians, a large part of said Indians (and their descendants) who 
 
 signed said treaty of eighteen hundred and fifty-six, and have continued 
 
 with said tribe from the making of said treaty to the present time, are 
 
 excluded from participating in tribal funds and the right to occupy said 
 
 reservation : Therefore 
 
 " Be it enacted 6j/ the Senate and House of Representatives of the United 
 
 States of America in Congress assemUed, That all persons who were actual 
 
 members of said tribe of Indians at the time of the execution of the treaty of 
 
 February fifth, eighteen hundred and fifty-six, and their descendants, and all 
 
 persons who became members of the tribe under the provisions of article six 
 
 of said treaty, and their descendants, who did not in and by said treaty, and 
 
 have not since its execution, separated from said tribe, are hereby declared 
 
 members of said Stockbridge and Munsee Tribe of Indians and entitled to their 
 
 pro rata share in tribal funds and in the occupancy of tribal lands; and all 
 
 members who entered into possession of lands under the allotments of eighteen 
 
 hundred and fifty-six and of eighteen hundred and seventy-one, and who by 
 
 themselves or by their lawful heirs have resided on said lands continuously 
 
 since, are hereby declared to be owners of such lands in fee simple, in severalty, 
 
 and the Government shall issue patents to them therefor. 
 
 " Sec. 2. That it shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Interior, without 
 unnecessary delay after the passage of this act, to cause to be taken an enroll- 
 ment of said tribe on the basis of the provisions of this act, which enrollment 
 shall be filed, a copy in the Department of the Interior and a copy in the 
 records of said tribe : Provided, That in all cases where aUotments of eighteen 
 hundred and seventy-one shall conflict with allotments of eighteen hundred and 
 fifty-six, the latter shall prevail. 
 " Approved March 3, 1893." 
 
 The persons who were held to have been erroneously excluded from the roU 
 made m 1874, and children subsequently born to them, were enrolled in 1894, 
 and have shared m tribal payments made since that time. So far. however. 
 
IKDIAK APPEOPKIATION BILL. '439 
 
 but one family has received shares in payments made prior to the 1894 enroll- 
 ment Daniel Davids, the head of the family mentioned, on July 8, 1909 made 
 formal application for shares in payments made prior to his enrollment and 
 his claim was allowed by this office and the department. The case was aken 
 by the Auditor for the Interior Department to the Comptroller of theTreasury 
 who finally decided in favor of the claimant. The following is an excerpt 
 from the comptroller's decision, a copy of which is inclosed • cji-ceiiji, 
 
 "The claimants appear to have been corruptly and forcibly excluded from 
 enrollment under the act until their rights were restored by the act S 1893 
 supra which appears both in the preamble and body of the act to have b^n 
 passed to correct the wrong done under the act of 1871 and to restore and 
 maintain the status established by the treaty of 1856 restore and 
 
 -.0^7^^ disallowance of the claimant's interest in tribal funds from 1874 to 
 1894 would very matenally defeat the purpose of the act of 1893 and be a 
 travesty upon the justice intended by that act 
 
 "The present allowance of their calims would appear but a tardy and incom- 
 plete correction of the wrong long endured by the claimants " 
 
 The above decision, which was broad enough to cover all persons wrongfully 
 excluded from the earlier roll, was made known to the tribe through the super- 
 mtendent of the Keshena School, and the submission of the 350 claims above 
 mentioned was the result. The Stickbridge and Munsee Indians have to the 
 credit of the tribe in the Treasury $71,522.30, known as the " Stockbridge con- 
 solidated fund," with accrued interest on the fund to January 2 1913 amount- 
 ing to $11,785.27, a total of $83,307.57. The principal is liable for the payment of 
 approximately $40,000 in money in lieu of land, provided for by the act of 
 June 21, 1906 (34 Stat., 382). The estimated value of the claims for back 
 annuity already filed is approximately $130,000. About $7,500 of this amount 
 is payable from the Stockbridge consolidated fund, and the balance of about 
 $122,500 payable from interest only, unless otherwise authorized by Congress. 
 There are some unpaid shares due various presons from tribal payments made 
 since 1894 for which the accrued interest is liable. It is apparent, therefore, 
 that before settlement can be made of all just claims and equal benefits con- 
 ferred on various members of the tribe the Stockbridge fund will have to be 
 augmented by an appropriation of probably between $87,000 and $90,000. 
 , The payments made prior to 1874 amount to $567.33 per capita. About 122 
 persons entitled were living during the entire period ; others were born after 
 1874, and others, living in 1874, died before the final enrollment. Until these 
 claims have been thoroughly examined and proof furnished as to the actual 
 dates of birth and death it would be impossible to give the exact amount on 
 the claims, and it is probable that a few more claims will be filed. 
 
 Since the right to back annuity of those excluded from the 1874 roll was 
 recognized in the case of Daniel Davids, action on other claims has been sus- 
 pended because of lack of sufficient funds to pay all and the consequent dis- 
 satisfaction if any claimants were preferred. It has been the intention of the 
 office to bring the matter to the attention of the deparment, with a view of 
 recommending legisaltion as soon as a safe estimate of the amount necessary 
 could be arrived at. 
 
 The office will soon be in a position to prepare an accurate estimate of the 
 money needed to pay the claimants and the matter will then be taken up with 
 Congress, with the view of procuring an appropriation to pay the claims of the 
 Indians. 
 
 Respectfully, 
 
 C. F. Hauke, 
 Second Assistant Commissioner. 
 
 Approved January 25, 1913. 
 
 SAMtTEL Adams, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 Appeal No. 19551. 
 
 Tbeasubt Department, 
 Office of Comptbollbb or the Teeastjet, 
 
 July n, 19X1. 
 
 Daniel Davids, a Stockbridge Indian of Wisconsin, appealed from the action 
 of the Auditor for the Interior Department in settlement No. 18881, dated 
 October 4. 1910, in which claim for per capita payments in arrears due to 
 
440 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 himself, his daughter Jlyrtle Davids, and son Ernest Davids, amounting to 
 $1,059.50, was disallovsred. 
 
 The claim, approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, was based upon 
 
 the alleged wrongful nonenrollment of claimants and their nonpayment of per 
 
 capita allowance under the act of Febuary 6, 1871 (16 Stat., 404-^07), from 
 
 1874 to 1894, and their subsequent enrollment under the act of JIarch 3, 1893 
 
 ■ (-27 Stat., 744-746), and payment from and after enrollment. 
 
 The auditor's alleged reasons for disallowance were that Darius Davids, 
 father of the claimant Daniel Davids,, received allotment of certain lands and 
 became a citizen of the United States under the provisions of the act of March 
 3, 1843 (5 Stat., 645) ; that thereby his relations of membership in the Stock- 
 bridge Tribe were severed ; and that neither he nor his descendants were there- 
 after entitled to share in tribal funds or other communal benefits ; that he was 
 not a party to the treaty of 1856 (11 Stat., 663-678), and that therefore the 
 claimants, his descendants, were not entitled to enrollment and payment under 
 the act of 1871, supra ; and, further, if said claimants were wrongfully excluded 
 from enrollment under the last-named act, still, that they ^.re not entitled to 
 payment of annuities in arrears for the 20 years, or any part thereof, from 
 1874 to 1894. 
 
 The laws and treaties upon which the decision depends are as follows : 
 Act of March 3, 1843 (5 Stat, 645 et seq.) ; 
 Act of August 6, 1846 (9 Stat., 55 and 56) ; 
 Treaty of 1848 (9 Stat, 955 et seq.) ; 
 Treaty of 1856 (11 Stat., 663-678) ; 
 Act of February 6, 1871 (16 Stat., 404-407) ; and 
 Act of March 3, 1893 (27 Stat., 744-745). 
 
 The said act of 1843 provided for choice of commissioners to make allotments 
 of the Indian lands to all the members of the tribe in severalty, to prepare 
 maps showing result of their work, and requiring a copy of the maps with full 
 report of final action to be filed, one copy with the Secretary of the Territory 
 of Wisconsin, one copy in the office of the clerk of the county in which the lands 
 are situated, and one copy to be transmitted to the President of the United 
 States, who would thereupon direct the issue of patents to the allottees for 
 lands to be held by them in fee simple, after which the said Indians should be 
 deemed and declared to be citizens of the United States to all intents and pur- 
 poses, with all the immunities, privileges, and liabilities pertaining to citizen- 
 ship, and their tribal relations and usages should wholly cease and determine. 
 
 The said act of 1846 in the most sweeping terms repealed the act of 1843 
 and restored the Indians to their tribal status and ancient form of government 
 with all powers, rights, and privileges held and exercised by them under cus- 
 toms and usages as fully and completely as if said act of 1843 had never passed. 
 
 Such is the provision of the first section of the act of 1846. The second sec- 
 tion provides that those Indians who wish to become and remain citizens may 
 enroll themselves with the subagent at Green Bay Agency within three months; 
 at the expiration of three months the agent should divide the township held by 
 the Indians into two parts, one part to be known as the Indian district, the 
 other to be known as citizen district. None enrolled under this provision, and 
 the proposed division of the township proved impracticable, as appears from 
 the preamble to the treaty of 1848, supra. 
 
 By Article I, treaty of 1848, the Stockbridge Indians renounced all participa- 
 tion in the benefits or privileges granted or conferred by the act of 1843 and 
 relinquished all rights secured by said act and declared themselves to be under 
 the protection and guardianship of the United States as other Indian tribes. 
 
 This article appears to be affirmation by treaty of the first section of the said 
 act of 1S46, which repealed in toto the act of 1843 and restored the Indian tribal 
 status of all the Stockbridges. 
 
 Nevertheless it appears from the evidence in the case that the apportionments 
 or allotments of the lands in severalty to all the Stockbridge Indians under 
 the act of 1843, or their interest in such lands, which had not been patented as 
 proposed and promised, had been in large part transferred for valuable consid- 
 eration and that the Indians were divided in, sentiment, a minority preferring 
 to continue their status as citizens under the act of 1843 and the majority 
 preferring restoration of Indian status under the act of 1846. (See Report of 
 Commissioner of Indian AfCairs, 1847 to 1850, pp. 728 to 768, particularly p. 747 
 and p. 757, eu seq.) 
 
 In consideration of the wishes of said minor party, that desired to continue 
 their citizenship. Article IV appears to have been inserted in the treaty of 1848. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 441 
 
 This article provided for resurvey of the lands into lots in conformity with the 
 plan of the commissioners under the act of 1S43 conlirming the allotuients to the 
 old allottees, and again promising patents, which did not issHe, at any time 
 prior to 1860. •* 
 
 The seventh article of the treaty suggests contemplation of the removal of 
 the Indians to a country west of the Mississippi River, set apart for them 
 or to be Secured by them ; but how, when, where, or by whom set apart, or how 
 to be secured is left to conjecture. Nothing provided for or contemplated in the 
 treaty appears to have been effectually carried out, except grant made in /a-ticle 
 III, and the same condition of unrest and dissatisfaction which had pvev.-iiled 
 for years appears to have continued until the treaty of 1S56, supra, was made. 
 
 By preamble of nine paragraphs prefacing the treaty of 1856 are set forth 
 the treaties, acts, and facts preceding and making necessary said trealy. 
 
 By Article I all the Stockbridge and JIunsee Indians who were included in 
 the treaty of 1839 were parties to the new ti-eaty concluded February 5, 1856, 
 and in the Ust of signers appended to the original agreementappears the name 
 of Darins Darids, signed by mark. 
 
 The Davids family record as it appears in the evidence shows that Darius 
 Davids married Louisa Baldwin, daughter of Debby Baldwin; that two sons, 
 Daniel (present claimant) and John, were born of this marriage, the former 
 June 1, 1844, and the latter September 27, 1845 ; that Louisa died in 1846 and 
 that the boys, Daniel and John, were in the care of and numbered with their 
 maternal grandmother, Debby Baldwin, at the time of the treaty of 1856. 
 
 The names of both Darius Davids and Debby Baldwin appear as signers by 
 mark to the treaty of February 5, 1856, and her name but not his appears signed 
 among those who approved the treaty with its amendments in general council 
 of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribes, July 29, 1856. Her name also ajipears 
 in the roll and census made under Article Y of the treaty, where she is enrolled 
 with two children, Daniel and John Davids. 
 
 Some evidence filed in the case indicates that Darius Davids died April 14, 1855 ; 
 but as his name appears signed by mark to the treaty as first concluded and 
 not as later amended it seems probable that his death occurred between Feb- 
 ruary 5 and July 29, 1856. 
 
 Whatever the status of Darius Davids in 1856, and whether he was then 
 living or dead, his sons, Daniel and John, would inherit from their grandmother, 
 and no allegation is made that either she or they ever severed their relations 
 as members of the Stockbridge Tribe. It therefore appears that if any Stock- 
 bridge Indians were entitled to enrollment as members of the tribe under the 
 act of 1871, supra, Daniel Davids was so entitled. 
 
 This act, like some of its predecessors, is entitled "An act for the relief of 
 the Stockbridge and JIunsee Tribes of Indians in the State of Wisconsin." 
 From much of the evidence filed in the case it appears that the act in its 
 Inception, framing, and execution was designed and operated to relieve the 
 Indians of what was most valuable in their possession. ( See S. Misc. Doc. No. 
 226, 52d Cong., 1st sess., especially pp. 31 to 33.) 
 
 The claimants appear to have been corruptly and forcibly excluded from 
 enrollment under the act until their rights were restored by the act of 1893, 
 supra, which appears both in the preamble and body of the act to have been 
 passed to correct the wrong done under the act of 1871 and to restore and 
 maintain the status established by the treaty of 1856. 
 
 The disallowance of the claimant's interest in tribal funds from 1874 to 1894 
 would very materially defeat the purpose of the act of 1893 and be a travesty 
 upon the justice intended by that act. 
 
 The present allowance of their claims would appear but a tardy and mcom- 
 plete correction of the wrong long endured by the claimants. 
 
 Senator Page. When you come to making a payment of that kind 
 to the Indians I thinlc there ought to be some very strong substantial 
 safeguards against fraud, and I suppose they have such safeguards 
 in the department, and that the department will look after the 
 Treasury of the United States. This is a matter that I am not very 
 conversant with, and I do not know whether you have left it so that 
 in a few years more we shall have another application for payment 
 or not. We supposed we had settled this matter a number of years 
 
442 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 ago, and here is a $90,000 claim. Do you say that you have examined 
 this with a good deal of care, and feel certain that there will be no 
 fraud on the Federal Treasury? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There will be no fraud on the Federal Treasury, but 
 there will be an injustice done to a number of Indians if this appro- 
 priation is not made, because some of the Indians have already gotten 
 their share of the funds, and we have not the funds available now to 
 pay the other Indians entitled to their share. 
 
 Senator La Follette. The Indian Commissioner for 15 or 20 
 years has urged upon Congress just exactly this legislation. It is 
 one of the claims about which there is no dispute. They are entitled 
 to this, and I may say there is nothing to send to the Court of 
 Claims — ^nothing to adjudicate. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, the amendment proposed by 
 Senator La Follette will be inserted as a new paragraph after the 
 word " Indians," in line 3, page 36, of the new print. 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to.) 
 
 The Chairman. That leaves the amendment proposed by Senator 
 Clapp with regard to the so-called Choctaw pro rata distribution. 
 The proposed legislation is that no part of this fund shall be taken 
 to pay any claims except where contracts have heretofore been ap- 
 proved. Is there any objection to the adoption of that amendment? 
 
 Senator Clapp. It might be well to have a resubmission of these 
 contracts to the department. I do not know when they were ap- 
 proved. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They were approved under Commissioner Leupp's 
 administration. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you suggest as an amendment the words, '■'■Pro- 
 vided, That the same shall be approved by the present Secretary of 
 the Interior " ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Of course, you would leave it to his discretion whether 
 they were to be approved ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Certainly. 
 
 The Chairman. Will you prepare that amendment. Senator Clapp ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I can fix it now. I rather think it is just as well 
 to have that additional safeguard. 
 
 Senator Page. This matter comes up, as it has come up before, in 
 such manner that we are given to understand by those who take the 
 other side of this case that if we do this we are liable to have a 
 claim upon us, for instance, by the Mississippi Choctaws, and we do 
 not know when we will ever get through. I do not believe I want 
 to vote to pay that. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Then, we ought to hold this money until the men 
 can go to the Court of Claims and have their claims adjudicated. If 
 these men have rendered service under such circumstances that the 
 Secretary of the Interior 
 
 Senator Page. You are talking about the lawyers' claims? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I am talking about Senator Blair's claim. 
 
 Senator Page. That is not what I am talking about. It is this 
 payment of $200 to one class and $100 to another. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This simply authorizes the payment of fees where the 
 work has already been performed. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to . 
 
 Senator Gronna. As I understand it, Senator Clapp's amendment 
 has no relation to per capita distribution. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 443 
 
 Senator Page. Your amendment does' 
 
 Senator Gronna Yes; except to submit it to the Court of Claims 
 as to whether the Mississippi Choctaws shall have recognition 
 
 Ihe Chairman. Your amendment provides in case there is pro- 
 rata payment? ^ 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. So it will read now, after the prohibition: 
 That no part of it shall be paid except where contracts have been heretofore 
 P^S^ ^r^„^^^ Secretary of the Interior in accordance with exiting laws 
 S^the InteTfor '" ^^^^^^racts shall first be approved by the present Secretary 
 
 Senator Page. That, you have stated, Mr. Meritt, covers only two 
 or three contracts? 
 
 Mr. Meritt Yes, sir; t^vo or three contracts that have already 
 been approved. 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to. and the item as amended was 
 agreed to.) 
 
 CREEK Fr>:DS FOR KENDALL COLLEGE. 
 
 The Chairman. I have a communication addressed to me by Mr. 
 Moty Tiger, chief of the Creek Nation, and G. W. Grayson, executive 
 interpreter, being a protest against the amendment proposed by the 
 Senator from Oklahoma, Mr. Owen, appropriating certain funds out 
 of the Creek funds for the benefit of the Kendall College. I will 
 have that inserted in the record. 
 
 (The letter referred to is as folloAvs:) 
 
 Washington, D. C, January 26, 1915. 
 
 Mr. Chairman : We desire to protest against the proposed amendment appro- 
 priating Creels: funds for the benefit of Kendall College, for the reason that we 
 do not believe it is In any proper sense a valid or just claim against the Creek 
 Nation. 
 
 It was usual in the Creek Nation, when any organization sought to establish 
 educational institutions therein, for the representatives of such organizations 
 to negotiate with the Creek national council for land sufficient on which to locate 
 such schools, as in the cases of Bacone College and Harrel Institute, at Mus- 
 kogee. 
 
 In the case now before you we do not recall any time when such nego- 
 tiations were had with the Henry Kendall College that gave it the rightful 
 ownership of 20 acres of Creek lands. But, even if it be contended that it did 
 have some sort of title to the land, they disposed of it to others under a com- 
 promise, which they effected with W. H. Sturdevant, representing Creek in-, 
 terests, by which they paid $10,000, and which compromise was duly approved 
 by the courts and the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Two years ago this claim for an appropriation of $10,000 of Creek moneys for 
 the benefit of Kendan College was preferred, but the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affairs very justly declined to estimate for the amount, and it went over. We 
 therefore regard It as a closed incident. If the committee, however, is desirous 
 of acting on the subject at this time we suggest either that Mr. W. H. Sturde- 
 vant, of St. Louis, Mo., who still represents Creek interests in similar cases, be 
 called to explain to the committee the status of this claim, or let the matter 
 go over to some other session of Congress when a full hearing of our objections 
 may be had. 
 
 We have the honor to be, very respectfully, 
 
 Moty Tigeb, 
 Chief of Creek Nation. 
 G. W. Gbatson, 
 Excutive Interpreter. 
 
 Hon. Henbt F. Ashuest, , ^ ,. . _ ~ 
 
 Chairman Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. U. 
 
444 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. I presume that item will not be agreed to. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Did the Indian Office decline to estimate 
 for it? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That item was not included in our estimates. Under 
 date of February 6, 1913, the department submitted an adverse report 
 to Hon. Eobert J. Gamble, chairman of the Committee on Indian 
 Affairs. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Will you have that incorporated in the rec- 
 ord, follo^^'ing this statement? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 (The letter referred to is as follows:) 
 
 Depabtment of the Intebioe, 
 Washington, Feimary 6, 1913. 
 Hon. Robert J. Gamble, 
 
 Chairman Gonvmittee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 Sib: In response to your request of January 31, 1913, for a report on, an 
 amendment Intended to be proposed by Mr. Owen, of Oklahoma, to H. K. 26874, 
 making appropriations for the current and contingent expenses of the Bureau 
 of Indian Affairs, etc., by inserting the following: "That the Secretary of 
 the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to withdraw from the Treasury 
 of the United States the sum of $10,000 on deposit to the credit of the Creek 
 Indians and pay the same to the trustees of the Henry Kendall College," I 
 have the honor to advise you that the intent of the amendment is to return to 
 the Henry Kendall College at Muskogee, Okla., the sum of $10,000 of Creek 
 tribal funds now on deposit in the United States Treasury to the credit of the 
 Creek Indians, which amount was recovered by the United States of America 
 for the use of the Creek Nation, as complainant, versus the Board of Home Mis- 
 sions of the Presbyterian Church of the United States of America, a corpora- 
 tion, the Synod of Oklahoma of the Presbyterian Church of the United States 
 of America, P. Porter, and C. W. Turner, defendants, in equity suit No. 526, 
 filed in the United States Circuit Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma 
 by M. L. Mott, Creek tribal attorney, and W. L. Sturdevant, specially employed 
 to assist M. L. Mott to prosecute the Creek town-lot suits. 
 
 A copy of the decree in that case, signed by Ralph B. Campbell, judge, is 
 herewith transmitted for ypur further information. 
 
 Subsection 10 of section 30 of the act of Congress approved June 28, 1898 
 (30 Stat. L., 495), contained a provision which was not adopted by the Creek 
 Tribe, as follows : 
 
 " Harrel Institute, Henry Kendall College, and Nazareth Institute, in Musko- 
 gee, and Baptist University, near Muskogee, shall have, free of charge, to be 
 allotted and patented to said institution or to the churches to which they belong, 
 the grounds they now occupy, to be used for school purposes only, and not to 
 exceed 10 acres each." 
 
 Section 20 of the act of Congress approved March 1, 1901 (31 Stat. L., 861- 
 867), contains this provision: 
 
 " Henry Kendall College, Nazareth Institute, and Spaulding Institute, In 
 Muskogee, may purchase the parcels of land occupied by them, or which may 
 have been laid out for their use and so designated upon the plat of said town, 
 at one-half of their appraised value, upon conditions herein provided; and all 
 other schools and institutions of learning located in incorporated towns in the 
 Creek Nation may, in like manner, purchase the lots or parcels of land occu- 
 pied by them." 
 
 The bill of complaint shows that block 150 contains 20 acres and block 151 
 6.99 acres, in Muskogee, Okla., and that said block 151 had never been occupied 
 by the Henry Kendall College for school purposes, and — 
 
 " That said defendant, the Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church 
 of America, purchased said block 151 under the provisions of said acts of Con- 
 gress above referred to, and subsequently, on the 15th day of October, 1904, a 
 patent was duly issued by the Creek Nation conveying said block 151, together 
 with block 150, to the said defendant, the Board of Home Missions of the 
 Presbyterian Church of the United States of America, said defendant having 
 paid one-half the value of said block as required. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIaTION BILL. 445 
 
 "Tom-orator further shows and charges that said defendant, the Board of 
 Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church of the United States of America, 
 acquired no right of occupancy or any other right in said blocl^ 151 under the 
 provisions of said Creeic agreement and said acts of Congress above referred 
 to, and the conveyance of said blocls 151 by the Creels Nation to said defendant 
 was secured by fraud and in violation of the law and the provisions of the 
 Creek agreement, and was and is void, and the title to said lots remained, and 
 still remains, in the Creek Nation." 
 
 The decree of the court found in favor of the Creek Nation. 
 
 On September 16, 190S, the department received the following telegram : 
 
 " We have cash offer of $10,000 in settlement of Ci-eek town-site suit against 
 Kendall College. All things considered we think offer should be accepted. 
 Unless otherwise instructed will act on our judgment. Please answer. 
 
 " W. L. Stuhdevant. 
 " M. L. MoTT." 
 
 On the same day the followiug telegraphic reply was sent : 
 
 " Use your own best judgment concerning offers of settlement in town-site 
 cases, remembering, however, that reasonable settlements are desirable." 
 
 By letter, dated November 12. 1908, Messrs. Sturdevant and Mott transmitted 
 a certified check for $10,000 from the Board of Home Missions of the Presby- 
 terian Church — the successor of the Henry Kendall College — together with a 
 copy of the decree of the court, made to effectuate the settlement of this case 
 and quiet the title to the Henry Kendall College blocks, in the mission board, 
 and settlement was made by compromise on a dismissal of the suit on payment 
 for the benefit of the Creek Nation of $10,000 for the blocks in question. 
 
 The department recommends strongly against the return of the $10,000 of 
 Greek tribal funds to the Henry Kendall College, which was unlawfully occupy- 
 ing block 151 in Muskogee, Okla., rightfully belonging to the Creek Tribe of 
 Indians. 
 
 Respectfully, 
 
 Samuel Adams, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I might say that the Commissioner of Indian Affairs 
 has requested the representatives of tiie Creel? Tribe to submit their 
 report on this amendment, but thej' have not as yet submitted their 
 report. This is the report that was submitted during the last session 
 of Congress. 
 
 Senator La Follette. TAlio are the representatives of the Creeks? 
 
 Mr. ItlEEiTT. ISIr. Moty Tiger is the principal chief. 
 
 Senator La Follette! "\\Tio are the attorneys? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Judge Allen. We have asked him to submit his re- 
 port on the amendment, but we have not yet heard from him. 
 
 The Ciiaiemax. The item is disagreed to, is it? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do not Imow whether we ought to dispose 
 of it in the absence of Senator Owen. , , ^ i 
 
 Senator Clapp. I rather think we ought to hear what reasons he 
 
 has. 
 
 (The item was temporarily passed.) 
 
 CHETTI?.rANCHI IXDL4NS, LOUISIANA. 
 
 Mr Meeitt. At the last session of Congress we endeavored to get 
 an appropriation for the benefit of the Chettimanchi Injans m 
 Louisiana!^ Senator Ransdell introduced a bill, S. *J33 Si^ty-third 
 Congress, second session, proposmg to pay them $1,500. The bill 
 reads as follows : 
 
446 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 possessed by the Chettimanehi Band of Indians of Louisiana, and for the pur- 
 chase of such lands as may be necessary to put them on a self-supporting basis : 
 Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, require that 
 the legal title to all property purchased, or the title to which is to be cleared, 
 with the funds hereby appropriated shall be in the name of the United States, 
 for the use and benefit of the Indians. 
 
 It seems that a mortage was taken on the land that is occupied 
 by the Chettimanchi Band of Indians, composed of about 300 In- 
 dians in Louisiana, and this mortgage was foreclosed. Miss Mcll- 
 henny, the sister of the Civil Service Commissioner, advanced the 
 money and prevented these Indians from being driven off their land. 
 The payment of the mortgage judgment and the expenses in con- 
 nection therewith amount to about $1,400, and we would like to have 
 this small appropriation so as to save the land of these Indians and 
 reimburse Miss Mcllhenny the money temporarily loaned to prevent 
 them from being put off their land. 
 
 Senator Clapp. We had that put in the bill last year. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It was in the bill, but went out in conference. 
 
 The Chairman. On pages 24 and 25 of the report submitted by' 
 this committee on the last Indian appropriation bill there will be 
 found a letter signed by the Assistant Secretary of the Interior, 
 addressed to the chairman, dated March 24, 1914, urging this ap- 
 propriation of $1,500 for these Indians, to buy land for them and 
 reimburse Miss Mcllhenny for the land she boiight for them. The 
 item was approved by this committee; it ran the gantlet in the 
 Senate and was approved in the Senate, but went out in conference. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We would like to have the bill amended by inserting 
 after " self-supporting " on line 8, the words " and for incidental 
 expenses in connection therewith." There are certain court costs 
 in connection with the matter. 
 
 The Chairman. This does not mean that we are to appropriate 
 money in the future for these Indians. It simply means that their 
 lands will be secure? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; it is a very worthy case. 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to.) 
 
 CHOCTAW AND CIIICKASAMr PEE CAPITA PAYMENTS. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have here a number of letters, one being dated Janu- 
 nry 22, 1915, and two dated January 23, 1915, signed by the honor- 
 able Secretary of the Interior, together with certain data, submitted 
 as exhibits to the letters and the appendices, all relating to the Choc- 
 taw and Chickasaw proposed per capita payment. Without objection 
 I will have those letters incorporated in the record so that we may 
 all have copies available when we reach the discussion of it. 
 
 (The letters are as follows:) 
 
 Depabtjient of the Interiob. 
 
 Washington. January 22, 1915. 
 
 My Dear Senator : I hnvc the honor to aeknowledse the receipt of your letter 
 of January 11, 1915, in which you request that there be furnished you for the 
 use of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the United States Senate the names 
 of the iiersons shown by the records of the department to be members of the 
 same Choctaw family and possessed of the same qualifications for citizenship 
 in the Choctaw X::tio)i as those possessed by the persons included in the 
 " Special list of persons agreed upon April 28, 1914, to be enrolled as Choctaws 
 by the attorneys of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations," set out on page 6 
 of Senate Document 478, Sixty-third Congress, second session. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 447 
 
 The persons listed In Senate Document 478, under the heading just quoted, 
 were applicants for enrollment as members of the Choctaw Nation in the 
 enrollment case of William B. Brown et al. The history of the claim of said 
 persons is set out in a report of April 20, 1900, from the then Commissioner to 
 the Five Civilized Tribes, a copy of which report is inclosed for your informa- 
 tion. For your further information as to the claim, a copy of Indian Office 
 letter of May 17, 1900, approved by the department June 15, 1909, is also 
 Inclosed. 
 
 The record shows that on August 1,S, 1906, the Commissioner to the Five 
 Civilized Tribes rendered a decision in favor of the enrollment of certain of the 
 applicants in s;iid case of William B. Brown et al. and denying the applications 
 of two of the applicants. Later the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 referring to the opinion of the Attorney General, dated February 19, 1907 (26 
 Ops. Atty. Gen.. 127), in the Loula West and other cases, recommended, in 
 view of said opinion, that his decision of August 13, 1906, in the case of William 
 B. Brown et al. be not approved and that the schedules which had been tenta- 
 tively submitted liy the said commissioner containing the names of certain of 
 the applicants in "snid case of William B. Brown et al. be disapproved. On 
 March 1. 1907, the department reversed the decision of the Commissioner to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes, so far as it was favorable to the applicants in said case, 
 and disapproved the schedules containing their names. This last-mentioned 
 action was taken by reason of the fact that the case had been passed upon 
 adversely by the Choctaw and Chicliasaw Citizenship Court, and that it was 
 held by the Attornev (xeneral in the above-mentioned opinion in the Loula West 
 and other cases to "which the William B. Brown case was analogous that the 
 judgments of the said citizenship court were final. 
 
 In compliance with your request, there is transmitted herewith a list of the 
 members of the families of William B. Brown et al., in whose favor the decision 
 was renderal on August 13, 1906, by the Commissioner to the Five Civilized 
 Tribes but who have not been enrolled and whose names do not appear m the 
 snecial list on page 6 of tlie above-mentioned Senate Document 478, but whose 
 qualifications for citizenship in the Choctaw Nation are similar to those mem- 
 bers of said families already enrolled under the act of August 1, 1914. 
 
 Referring to the enrollment of the members of the Nichols and Brown fami- 
 lies as listed in Senate Document 47x and provided for in section n i of the 
 inman apSpriation act of August 1, 1914 (Public, 160), your atten ion i^ 
 invit^ to the fact that said legislation, providing for the eni-ollraent of certain 
 mlmbers of said families, was not based upon any favorable report by tlie 
 ^pmrtmPTit While ttiere mav be merit in the claims of the members of said 
 ^aSr who weieTplic^nts in the above-mentioned case of William B^ 
 Sn k al and some of whom have been enrolled under the provisions of 
 
 ri^^VAugnst ]^j^i^:^^t^ rd's^tt'So^nVrsa^i 
 
 reexamination, and readjndication of hundreds of cases. 
 
 Very truly, yours, Fbanklin K. Lane. 
 
 ''^"c™^ JcoZmf; on inmn Affair. Unifca States Senate. 
 
 List Of applicants in tUe Cn^otZenr^^^^^^^^ t 
 
 in iDhose favor the Cnmm^sstoner to me i '"l^ ^ f^ enrolled, and 
 
 1906, renderea a favoraWe ^«cmo» 6i^ «fto ^a^e »or o ^^^^^.^^^ ^„ 
 
 whose names do not appear among *^e wemOers oj s 
 the special lilt on page 6 of Senate Document No. 4'»- 
 
 Nancy A. Brown. 
 Mary Ethel McOarty. 
 Sarah Johnston. 
 Mary Johnston. 
 Alice Brown. 
 
 Susie Brown. 
 
 Minnie Gertrude Brown. 
 
 Fannie C. Brown. 
 
 Maudie Brown. 
 
 Elbert Knightington Brown. 
 
448 
 
 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Florence Peck. 
 
 Benjamiu Pack. 
 
 Otis Dewey Peck. 
 
 George G. Brown. 
 
 William B. Brown. 
 
 Eli V.'. Brown. 
 
 Sarah Brown. 
 
 OUie McCarty. 
 
 Willie Clarence Brown. 
 
 Edna Arvel Jolinston. 
 
 Rnbie Dill Brown. 
 
 Prevble Peck. 
 
 Goldie Brown. 
 
 Bettie McCarty. 
 
 William N. Brown. 
 
 Becky Brown. 
 
 Mamie (or Minnie) Pludson. 
 
 George Brown. 
 
 William Ermau JohnslnM. 
 Henry Niten Brown. 
 Caswell M. Brown. 
 Willie Brown. 
 Polly A. Peck. 
 Oscar Peck. 
 Andrew Peck. 
 Vlrgie Peck. 
 Willie Emma Brown 
 Nancy Brown. 
 Amanda Brown. 
 Nancy C. Nichols. 
 William A. McCarly. 
 Oscar Lee Johnston 
 Roy Lester Johnston. 
 Teddy Golden Johnston. 
 Annie Jewell Brown. 
 Cassia Brown. 
 
 Department of the Intebiok, 
 
 Office of Indian Affaies, 
 
 Washington, May 11, 1V09. 
 The Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Sir: Referring to department letter of March 1, 1909, there is transmitted 
 herewith a report dated April 20, 1909, from the Commissioner to the Five 
 Civilized Tribes relative to the enrollment case of William B. Brown et al. 
 The history of the claim is set out fully in the reports inclosed. 
 
 The record shows, among other things, that on August 13, 1906, the Com- 
 missioner to the Five Civilized Tribes rendered a decision that Nancy A. Brown, 
 Bettie McCarty, Mary Ethel McCarty, William N. Brown, Sarah Johnston, 
 Becky Brown, Mary Johnston, Mamie (or Minnie) Hudson, Alice Brown, 
 George Brown, Susie Brown, William Erman Johnston, Minnie Gertrude Brown, 
 Henry Niten Brown, Fannie C. Brown, Caswell M. Brown, Maudie Brown, 
 Willie Brown, Elbert Knightington Brown, Polly A. Peck, Florence Peck, Oscar 
 Peck, Benjamin Peck, Andrew Peck, Otis Dewey Peck, Virgie Peck, George G. 
 Brown, Willie Emma Brown, James B. Nichols, Delia May Scott, Nancy V. 
 Nichols, John W. B. Nichols, Louie Herman Nichols, Golda XJla Nichols, Grin 
 M. Nichols, James W. Nichols, Maggie M. Nichols, Mettle Myrtle Nichols, and 
 Lonie A. Nichols should be enrolled as citizens by blood, and William B. Brown, 
 Nancy Brown, Eli W. Brovrai, Amanda Brown, Sarah Brown, Nancy C. Nichols, 
 Bessie Nichols, Amanda M. Nichols, and Osa Nichols as citizens by inter- 
 marriage of the Choctaw Nation under the provisions of the acts of Congress 
 approved June 28, 1898 (30 Stat. L., 495), and July 1, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641). 
 
 The applications for the enrollment of William A. McCarty, Ollie McCarty, 
 Oscar Lee Johnston, Willie Clarence Brown, Roy Lester Johnston, Edna Arvel 
 Johnston, Teddy Golden Johnston, Ruble Dill Brown, Annie Jewell Brown, 
 Prebble Peck, Cassia Brown, Goldie Brown, Nema May Scott, Lita Lois Scott, 
 Sylvie Jewel Nichols, and Cora Lee Nichols were also granted under the 
 provisions of the act of Congress approved April 26, 1906 (34 Stat. L., 137). 
 
 The application for the enrollment of Andrew J. Pack as a citizen by inter- 
 marriage was denied, and the application for the enrollment of Daphne Myrtle 
 Nichols as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation was dismissed. 
 
 It appears that on August 14, 1906, the record in the case, together with the 
 decision, was forwarded by the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 and that on February 7, 1907, he transmitted to the department schedules of 
 citizens of the Choctaw Nation by blood and by marriage, containing the names 
 of persons who were favorably passed upon by him in his decision of August 
 13, 1906, in this case. It appears also that on February 26, 1907, the com- 
 missioner, referring to department letter of February 23, 1907, invited the 
 department's attention to the above-mentioned schedules, and to the Choctaw 
 enrollment case of William B. Brown at al., and recommended, in view of the 
 opinion of the Attorney General, dated February 19, 1907, in the Loula West 
 and other cases, that his decision of August 13, 1906, be not approved and that 
 the schedules referred to be disa]3])roved. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 449 
 
 On March 1, 1907, the department reversed the decision of the commissioner 
 so far as it was favorable to the applicants, and disapproved the schedules 
 containing their names. 
 
 The Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes reports further that his 
 office has no record of any fa\orable decision of the department as to the 
 persons included in this case. 
 
 It appears also that their names have never been placed upon any roll or 
 schedule of citizens of the Choctaw Nation prepared by the Commission to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes and approved by the department. 
 
 The office concurs in the view of the Commissioner to the Five Civilized 
 Tribes that as the record in the case is a complete one the applicants could add 
 nothing material thereto at this time, and to have them appear at his office to 
 give further testimony would only make additional expense for them and work 
 a hardship without any benefit accruing therefrom. 
 
 On April 9, 1909, the office requested the Commissioner to the Five Civilized 
 Tribes to take no steps pending the preparation of his report concerning the 
 enrollment case of William B. Brown et al. toward the issuance of a patent 
 to any adverse party In interest to the lands occupied by the applicants in the 
 above-mentioned case. The commissioner was also requested to instruct the 
 United States Indian agent at Union Agency to suspend action, if any was 
 contemplated, toward dispossessing the applicants of the lands occupied by them 
 until further advised by the department. 
 
 The commissioner reports that no formal allotments were made to the persons 
 included In the above case, but that applications were made in their behalf for 
 certain lands which were involved in Chickasaw contest cases. The contests 
 in behalf of these claimants were dismissed by the Commissioner to the Five 
 Civilized Tribes, and on October 12, 1907, the office held that the action of the 
 commissioner was proper, and recommended that he be advised that all appli- 
 cations for allotments in behalf of these persons should be denied. 
 
 This recommendation was approved by the department on October 14, 1907. 
 It appears from the report of the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes that 
 the lands in contest were awarded to the contestees and patents therefor were 
 recorded and delivered to them. Title having passed to the contestees, the 
 department Is now without authority to place or permit the applicants in the 
 William B. Brown case to remain in possession of the lands covered by the 
 patents Issued to the contestees, even in the event of the department rendering a 
 favorable decision relative to their enrollment. 
 
 The commissioner reports that his office has no record of the applicants in 
 the case mentioned holding or claiming possession of any other lands in the 
 Choctaw or Chickasaw Nations, but says that if they are In occupancy of such 
 other lands his office will, upon receipt of a description thereof, make a record 
 of the claims pending further action by the department. 
 
 The office is of the opinion that the case of Willlnm B. Brown et al. is not 
 analogous to that of John E. Goldsby, and that it does not come within the 
 principles announced by the Supreme Court of the United States in its deci- 
 sion of November 30, 190S, in that case (211 U. S., 249). 
 
 It is therefore recommended that the department take no action looking to 
 the enrollment of any of the applicants included in the consolidated case of 
 William B. Brtwn et al. . 
 
 The record in the case and other papers pertaining thereto are transmitted 
 
 herewith for your further Information. 
 
 "Very respectfully, „ ^ -,^ 
 
 R. G. Valentine, 
 
 Acting Commissioner. 
 W. C. P. June 15, 1909. ^ ^^ „ 
 
 J. W. rl. 
 
 Frank Pierce, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 
 Muskogee, Okla., April 20, 100!). 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Sir: Receipt is hereby acknowledged of Indian Office letter of April 9, 1909 
 (Land 23090-1909), transmitting petition of William B. Brown et al. for enioll- 
 
 82833—15 29 
 
450 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 ment as citizens of the Choctaw Nation. This office is also requested to report 
 specially whether the names of any of the persons in this petition appeared 
 upon any tribal rolls of the Choctaw Nation or upon any roll prepared by the 
 Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes and approved by the Secretary of the 
 Interior. 
 
 March 1, 1909, the department also addressed a letter to this office requesting 
 reports as to all persons whose names may have been upon disapproved sched- 
 ules and at whose numbers in the printed rolls appears the notation " No person 
 enrolled at this number." 
 
 The case of William B. Brown is one of the cases referred to in departmental 
 letter of March 1, 1909, and the report is made to the Secretary of the Interior, 
 through the Indian Office, with the view of complying with both requests. 
 
 I have the honor to report as follows, relntive to the case of William B. 
 Brown and the other members of his family who were included in the decision 
 in the consolidated Choctaw case of William B. Brown et al. : 
 
 It appears from the records of this office that on September 9, 1S96, in the 
 case entitled " Nancy Cooper et al. v. The Choctaw Nation, 1896," Choctaw citi- 
 zenship case No. 1418, original application was made to the Commission to 
 the Five Civilized Tribes, under the provisions of the act of Congress approved 
 June 10, 1896 (29 Stat., 321), for admission to citizenship in the Choctaw 
 Nation of the applicants, Nancy A. Brown (as Nancy Alice Brown), Bettie 
 McCarty (as Rebecca Elizabeth Brown), William N. Brown (as William Niten 
 Brown), Sarah Johnston (as Sarah Elizabeth Brown), Becky Brown (as Re- 
 becca Catherine Brown), Mary Brown (as Mary Arrillie Brown), Mamie 
 (or Minnie) Hudson (as Minnie Ann Brown), Alice Brown, George Brown 
 (as George Montgomery Brown), Caswell M. Brown, Maudie Brown (as 
 Mandy E. Brown), Willie Brown (as William C. Brown), Polly A. Pecli (as 
 Polly Ann Peck), Florence Peck (as Minnie F. Peck), Oscar Peck (as Oscar S. 
 Peck), Benjamin Peck (as Benjamin G. Peck), Andrew Peck, George G. Brown, 
 Willie Emma Brown, James B. Nichols (as James Bruten Nichols), Delia 
 May Scott (as Mary Delia May Nichols), Nancy V. Nichols (as Nannie Velma 
 Nichols), John W. B. Nichols (as John William Bethuel Nichols), Grin M. 
 Nichols (as Orrin Mayberry Nichols), James W. Nichols (as James Willis 
 Nichols), Maggie M. Nichols (as Maggie May Nichols), Mettie Myrtle Nichols, 
 Lonie A. Nichols (as Lona Alta Nichols), as citizens by blood, and for the ad- 
 mission of William B. Brown, Nancy J. Brown (as Nancy Jane Browu), 
 Amanda Brown, Andrew J. Peck (as A. J. Peck), Sarah Brown, Nancy C. 
 Nichols (as Nancy Caroline Nichols), and Amanda M. Nichols (as Amanda 
 Melvina Nichols), as citizens by intermarriage of said nation; and that on 
 December 8, 1896, said commission rendered its decision denying the applica- 
 tions for citizenship of the above-named persons. 
 
 From this decision of the commission an appeal was taken to the United States 
 court for the Southern District of Indian Territory, which court, on December 
 20, 1897, in the case entitled " Nancy J. Cooper et al. v. The Choctaw Nation," 
 case No. 96 on the citizenship docket, admitted Nancy A. Brown (as Nancy 
 Alice Brown), Bettie McCarty (as Bettie Brown), Sarah Johnston (as Sarah 
 Brown), Becky Brown, Mary Brown, Mamie (or Minnie) Hudson (as Mamie 
 Brown), Alice Brown, George Brown, Susie Brown, Caswell M. Brown (as 
 Caswell Marion Brown), Maudie Brown, Willie Brown, Polly A. Peck (as 
 Polly Ann Peck), Florence Peck, Oscar Peck, Benjamin Peck (as Benjamin 
 Grant Peck), Andrew Peck, George C. Brown, Willie Emma Brown, James B. 
 Nichols (as James Bruton Nichols), Delia May Scott (as Delia May Nichols), 
 Nancy Y. Nichols (as Nancy Velmor Nicholas), Orin M. Nichols (as Grin 
 Mnyberry Nichols), James W. Nichols (as James Willis Nichols), Maggie M. 
 Nichols (as Maggie May Nichols), Mettie Myrtle Nichols (as Myrtle Nichols), 
 and Lonie A. Nichols (as Lonie Alta Nichols) as citizens by blood of the Choc- 
 taw Nation, and William B. Brown (as William Bluford Brown), Andrew J. 
 Peck (as Andrew Jackson Peck), and Nancy C. Nichols (as Nancy Carohiie 
 Nichols) as citizens by intermarriage of said nation, and denied the appliactions 
 for the admission of Nancy J. Brown (as Nancy Jane Brown), Sarah Brown, 
 and Amanda M. Nichols (as Amanda Melvina Nichols) as citizens by inter- 
 marriage of the Choctaw Nation. The name of the applicant Susie Brown was 
 interpolated in the judgment of said court, she not having been an applicant 
 before the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes in 1896. 
 
 March 18, 1898, this case again came before the United States court upon a 
 motion of the plaintiffs' attorneys to correct the judgment of said court ren- 
 dered December 20, 1897, and the court thereupon ordered said judgment cor- 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 451 
 
 reeted so as to admit tlie applicants Nancy J. Brown (as .\ancy Jane Brown) 
 Sarah Brown, and Amanda M. Nichols (s Amanda Melvina Nichols) as citizens 
 by lUterniarriaKe of the Choctaw Nation. 
 
 September 2S, 180S, said court rendered a supplemental .iudgment admitting 
 Amanda Brown as a citizen by intermarriage of the Choctaw Nation 
 
 January 17, 1900, this cause again came before the court upon a motion of 
 the defendants to strike out of the Judgment theretofore rendered certain 
 names improperly- admitted to citizenship, and the court ordered that the names 
 of Susie Brown, Andrew J. Peck (as Andrew Jackson Peck), Bettie McCarty 
 (as Bettie Brown), and Becky Brown be tricken from said former judgment 
 
 Subsequently, upon the representation of the plaintiffs' attorneys that cer- 
 tain persons who were original applicants were by oversight or mistake left 
 out of the original judgment theretofore rendered, the courts ordered that the 
 applicants Nancy J. Brown (as Nancy J. Brown), Sarah Brown, Amanda 
 Brown, Amanda JI. Nichols, and Rebecca E. Brown be admitted to citizenship 
 in the Choctaw Nation. 
 
 December 17, 1902, the Clioctaw and Chickasaw citizenship court, created 
 under the provisions of the act of Congress approved July 1, 1802 (32 Stat. 
 641) "set aside, annulled, vacated, and held for naught" the aforesaid judg- 
 ment of the United States court for the southern district of the Indian Terri- 
 tory. 
 
 The record in this case was subsequently certified to the Choctaw and Chicka- 
 saw citizenship court for a trial de novo, which court, November 29, 1904, in 
 the case entitled " William Neighton Brown et al. v. The Choctaw and Chicka- 
 saw Nations," No. 73, on the Tishomingo docket, ordered, adjudged, and decreed 
 that the petition of the plaintiffs be denied and that they be declared not citi- 
 zens of the Choctaw Nation, and not entitled to enrollment as such citizens, and 
 not entitled to any rights whatever flowing thgrefrom. 
 
 December 12, 1904, orders were entered of record by the commission to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes dismissing the applications for the enrollment of Mary E. 
 MeCarty, William Erman Johnston, Minnie Gertrude Brown, Henry Niter 
 Brown, Elbert Knightington Brown, Otis Dewey Peck, Virgie Peck, Louie Her- 
 man Nichols, and Golda Ula Nichols as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation 
 and March 18, 1905, an order was entered of record dismissing the application 
 for the enrollment of Fannie C. Brown as a citizen by blood of said nation for 
 the reason that the parents of these children had been denied by a decree of 
 the Choctaw and Chickasaw citizenship court. 
 
 December 12, 1904. orders were entered of record by the commission dismiss- 
 ing the applications for the enrollment of Eli W. Brown, Bessie Nichols, and 
 Osa Nichols as citizens by intermarriage of the Choctaw Nation for the reason 
 that the persons through whom they claimed their rights had been denied by 
 a decree of the Choctaw and Chickasaw citizenship court, 
 
 March 30, 1905, the commission to the Five Civilized Tribes denied the appli- 
 cation for the enrollment of Susie Brown as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw 
 Nation and on April 6, 1906 (I, T. I). 3810-1905), the department set aside 
 this decision of the commission and returned the record to this office for investi- 
 gation upon its merits. , ,, ^. ^. .,. , ^ ., „„ 
 Under the regulations adopted by the commission to the Five Civilized Tribes 
 of January 2, 1906, there were filed on February 6, 1906, by Cruce, Cruce & 
 Bleakmore, attorneys for the petitioners, Ardmore, Ind^ T., P|t'tions praying 
 that William B. Brown, Nancy A. Brown, xMinnie Hudson, Sarah Johnston, 
 Oscar Lee Johnston, William Erman Johnston, Rebecca Brown Mmme Gertrude 
 Brown Heniw Niten Brown, Ruble Dill Brown, Eli W. Brown, Mary A. John- 
 ston Roy "Jster Johnston, Edna A. Johnston, Rebecca McCarty William A. 
 AlcCartv Marv E McCarty, William N. Brown, Nancy Jane Brown, George 
 Brown Alfce Brown! Susie^Brown, Cletus Brown, Olarence Brown A J^Pe^^^ 
 
 ^JieSolHameT^: -hoS' O^K « ^ ^^^'L. Mag.e 
 Angel be enrolled as citizens of the Choctaw Nation 
 
 April 16, 1906, the principal Petitionees, ^'^^^f^^^^^^laVisf^^ a hear- 
 
 attomeys for the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, weie 
 
452 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 ing would be had in this matter at the office of the Commissioner to the I'ive 
 Civilized Tribes, Muskogee, Ind. T., Monday, May 14, 1906, at 9 o'clock a. m., 
 and on the same date William N. Brown, father of Susie Brown; Oruce, 
 Cruce & Bleakmore, and Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish were advised that on 
 April 6, 1906, the department had set aside the decision of the Commission 
 to the Five Civilized Tribes of March 30, 1905, and returned the record with in- 
 structions that a full investigation be made of the rights of the said Susie 
 Brown to enrollment as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation, and that such 
 testimony and evidence would be recei^'ed at the date of the hearing on the 
 petition. 
 
 On motion of attorneys for applicants the hearing was continued until May 21, 
 1906, on which date proceedings were had In the matter of said petition in pur- 
 suance to the notices above mentioned. 
 
 At the hearing William N. Brown, Caswell M. Brown, James B. Nichols, and 
 Orin M. Nichols testified that in 1894, they, together with the other applicants 
 herein who were living at that time, petitioned the Choctaw Council for ad- 
 mission as citizens of the Choctaw Nation; that no action having been taken 
 by the council as to their case they, in 1896, appeared before the Choctaw Cen- 
 sus Commission and made application to be enrolled upon the 1896 Choctaw 
 census roll ; that some time in January, 1897, they received a certificate from the 
 secretary of the Choctaw revisory board, wherein it appeared that they had been 
 enrolled upon the 1896 Choctaw census roll. 
 
 It appears that the applicants William B. Brown, William N. Brown, Nancy 
 J. Brown, Caswell M. Brown, Amanda Brown, Polly Ann Peck, Andrew J. Peck, 
 George G. Brown, Sarah Brown, Nancy A. Brown, Bettie McCarty. Sarah John- 
 ston, Becky Brown, Mary Johnston, Mamie (or Minnie) Hudson, Alice Brown, 
 George Brown, Susie Brown, Jlaudie Brown, Willie Brown, Florence Peck, 
 Oscar Peck, Benjamin Peck, Andrew Peck, James B. Nichols, Nancy C. Nichols, 
 Orin M. Nichols, Amanda M. Nichols, John W. B. Nichols, Delia May Scott, 
 Nancy V. Nichols, James W. Nichols, Maggie M. Nichols, Mettle Myrtle Nichols, 
 and Lonie A. Nichols are identified upon the 1896 census roll of the Choctaw 
 Nation, Blue County. 
 
 August 13, 1906, the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes rendered a 
 decision, in accordance with the opinion of the Assistant Attorney General for 
 the Department of the Interior of February 10, 1905 CITD10353-1904), and 
 December 8, 1905 (ITD3693-1905), in the case of Lula West, holding that the 
 action of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes and the subsequent action 
 of the United States court for the southern district of Indian Territory and 
 the Choctaw and Chickasaw citizen court upon the right of the applicants who 
 applied to said commission in 1896, with the exception of Andrew J. Peck, was 
 without authority of law and of no force and effect upon the status of said 
 applicants as citizens of the Choctaw Nation. 
 
 He also rescinded the orders of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes 
 of December 12, 1904, and March 18, 1905, dismissing the applications for the 
 enrollment of Mary E. McCarty, William Erman Johnston, Jliunie Gertrude 
 Brown, Fannie C. Brown, Henry Niten Brown, Elbert Knightington Brown, 
 Otis Dewey Peck, Virgie Peck, Louie Herman Nichols, and Golda tJla Nichols 
 as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation, and Eli W. Brown, Bessie Nichols, 
 and Osa Nichols as citizens by intermarriage of the Choctaw Nation. 
 
 The Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes further held, in accordance 
 with the opinions of the Assistant Attorney General for the Department of the 
 Interior of March 3, 1905 (ITD187-1905), and March 10, 1906 (ITD9969-1905), 
 that Nancy A. Brown, Bettie McCarty, Mary Ethel McCarty, William N. Brown, 
 Sarah Johnston, Becky Brown, Jlary Johnston, Mamie (or Minnie) Hudson, 
 Alice Brown, George Brown, Susie Brown, William Erman Johnston, Minnie 
 Gertrude Brown, Henry Niten Brown, Fannie C. Brown, Caswell M. Brown, 
 Maudie Brown, Willie Brown, Elbert Knightington Brown, Polly A. Peck, Flor- 
 ence Peck, Oscar Peck, Benjamin Peck, Andrew Peck, Otis Dewey Peck, Virgie 
 Peck, George G. Brown, Willie Emma Brown, Jiimes B. Nichols, Delia May 
 Scott, Nancy V. Nichols, John W. B. Nichols, Louie Herman Nichols, Golda 
 Tjla Nichols, Orin M. Nichols, James W. Nichols, Maggie M. Nichols, Mettie 
 Myrtle Nichols, and Lonie A. Nichols should be enrolled as citizens by blood, 
 and William B. Brown, Nancy Brown, Eli W. Brown, Amanda Brown, Sarah 
 Brown, Nancy C. Nichols, Bessie Nichols, Amanda M. Nichols, and Osa Nichols 
 as citizens by intermarriage of the Choctaw Nation under the provisions of the 
 acts of Congress approved June 28, 1898 (30 Stat, 495), and July 1, 1902 (32 
 Stat, 641). 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 453 
 
 The applications for tlie eurollment of William A. McCarty, OUie McCartv 
 Oscar Lee Johnston, Willie Clarence Brown, Roy Lester Jolinston, Edna Arv^l 
 Johnston leddy Golden Johnston, Ruble Dill Brown, Annie Jewell Brown, 
 rrebble Peclj, Cassie Brown, Goldie Brown, Nema May Scott, Lita Lois Scott 
 ttylvie Jewel Nichols, and Cora Lee Nichols were also granted under the pro- 
 visions of the act of Congress approved April 26, 1906 (34 Stat 137) 
 
 The application for the enrollment of Andrew J. Peck as a 'citizen by inter- 
 marriage was denied, and the application for the enrollment of Daphne Myrtle 
 Nichols as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation was dismissed 
 
 August 14, 1906, the record in this case, together with the decision of August 
 13, 1906, was transmitted to the department. 
 
 February 7, 1907, there were transmitted to the Secretary of the Interior 
 schedules of citizens by blood and marriage of the Choctaw Nation containing 
 the names of tlie persons who were favorably passed upon by the Commissioner 
 to the Fixe Civilized Tribes August 13, 1906, in the Choctaw enrollment case 
 of William B. Brown et al., as follows : 
 
 Citizens by blood, Nos. 16121 to 16159, inclusive. 
 Citizens by marriage, Nos. 1637 to 1645, inclusive. 
 Minor citizens by blood, Nos. 857 to 872, inclusive. 
 
 This case was analogous to the case of Mattie Shoclsley et al. (Loula West 
 case), in which this otHce had been directed to suspend action until the Attorney 
 General had passed upon the questions involved in that case, but inasmuch as 
 the time within which persons could be enrolled and their enrollment approved 
 by the Secretary of the Interior under the provisions of the act of Congress 
 approved April 26, 1906, was becoming very short, the schedules above described 
 were prepared by this ofBce without waiting for the opinion of the Attorney 
 General and were forwarded to the department in order that, if the opinion of 
 the Attorney General were favorable, the rights of these applicants might be 
 protected without delay, and this office requested, in the event of such favorable 
 opinion of the Attorney General, that these schedules be approved by the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior. 
 
 February 26, 1907. referring to departmental letter of February 23, 1907 
 (ITD4564-1907), requesting this office to forward a list of those persons whose 
 enrollment should be canceled in view of the opinion of the Attorney General 
 of February 19, 1907, in the Choctaw enrollment cases of Loula West and 
 William C. Thompson, the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes called 
 the attention of the department to the schedules above described, which were 
 forwarded February 7, 1907, and advised that this case was analogous to the 
 case of Loula West. It was, therefore, recommended that the decision of 
 August 13, 1906, be not approved by the department, and that the schedules 
 transmitted with office letter of February 7, 1907, be disapproved by the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior. 
 
 February 28. 1907 (Land, 71868-1906, 2220, 14412-1907), the Indian Office 
 forwarded to the department the record in the case of William B. Brown et al., 
 together with the schedules transmitted February 7, 1907, and recommended, 
 in view of the opinion of the Attorney General of February 19, 1907, that the 
 decision of the commissioner of August 13, 1906, in so far as it was favorable 
 to the applicants, be reversed and the schedules disapproved, which was done 
 bv the department March 1, 1907 ( ITD5742-1907 ) . 
 
 This office has no record of any favorable decision of the department as to 
 the persons included in this consolidated case. 
 
 No formal allotments were made to the persons included in this case, but ap- 
 plications were made on their behalf for certain lands which were mvolved in 
 Chickasaw contest cases. Subsequent to March 4, 1907, these contests were dis- 
 missed, and on August 31, 1907, a motion to reinstate said contests was denied. 
 
 Aue-ust 29, 1007, the department advised this office that by letter of August 
 5, 1907, counsel for the claimants in the case of William B. Brown et al. re- 
 quested that the order of the department of June 14, 1907, m the case of 
 William C. Thompson and others, suspending action on claims to allotments of 
 lands be made applicable to them. „ ^ ^.i , • 
 
 September 20, 1907, this office reported that it did not appear that the claim- 
 ..nts in the case of William ri. Brown et a!, possessed the same status as the 
 claimants in the case of William C. Thompson et al., as their names had never 
 been upon an approved roll, but that it appeared they occupied the same status 
 as the persons included in the case of John H. Gamblm and the case of Angus 
 
 '^Ortoba- 12. 1907 (IT77893-1907), the Indian Office li?l<^. tl^^* *'i«^f"°i' „"^ 
 the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes m dismissing the contests on 
 
454 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 
 
 behalf of these claimants and in refusing to reinstate the same was proper 
 and recommended that he be advised that all applications for allotments ou 
 behalf of these persons should be denied, and this recommendation was ap- 
 proved by the department October 14, 1907. 
 
 Following these instructions of the department the lands in contest were 
 awarded to the contestees, and patents therefor were recorded and delivered to 
 them. It is believed, therefore, that these persons, in the event of a favorable 
 decision relative to their enrollment, could not recover the land referred to, 
 and if they are holding or claiming other land this office has no record of such 
 claim. 
 
 If they are now in possession of other lands in the Choctaw and Chicljasaw 
 Nations this office will, however, upon the receipt of descriptions thereof, make 
 a record of their claim to the land pending further action by the department. 
 
 I have further to report that the record in this case is full and complete, 
 and it is believed the applicants could add nothing material thereto at this 
 time, and that it would work an unjustifiable hardship upon them to notify 
 them now to appear and give further testimonj^ in this case and force upon 
 thom the expense of a hearing at this office. 
 
 I have not, therefore, forwarded the notices referred to in departmental 
 letter of March 15. 1009, and Indian Office letter of April 9, 1909. but will 
 await specific instructions from the department as to its wishes in the matter 
 in accordance with my request of April 14, 1909, in the Mattie Shockley case. 
 
 If it is the desire of the department that notices be forwarded in this case, 
 however, this office will proceed to notify the applicants thereof immediately 
 upon receipt of advice from the department and will make supplemental report 
 after their replies have been received. 
 
 The petition inclosed with Indian Office letter of April 9, 1909, is herewith 
 returned. 
 
 Respectfully. 
 
 J. G. Weight, Commissioner. 
 
 (Through the Commissioner of Indian Affairs.) 
 
 Department of the Interios, 
 Washington, January 23, 1915. 
 
 My Dear Senator : I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter 
 of January 12, 1915, in which you request that there be furnished you, for the 
 use of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the United States Senate, a statement 
 of the funds on deposit in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of 
 the Choctaw Nation and a statement concerning the lands and other common 
 property of said nation and a statement of the funds held to the credit of the 
 Individual members of the Nation. 
 
 There is transmitted herewith, in compliance with your request, a statement 
 showing the funds to the credit of the Choctaw Nation in the United States 
 Treasury and in banks in the State of Oklahoma on December 4, 1914, as shown 
 by the books of the Indian Office. A further statement is submitted relative to 
 the tribal land and other common property of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Na- 
 tions and an estimate of the value of the Choctaw Nation's share thereof. 
 
 The total of the Choctaw tribal funds, together with the approximate value 
 of the Choctaw Nation's share of the tribal property of the Choctaw and Chick- 
 asaw Nations amounts to approximately $23,361,928.69. The information as to 
 the aggregate amount of funds held to the credit of the Individual members of 
 the Choctaw Nation will be obtained from the Superintendent for the Five Civil- 
 ized Tribes, Muskogee, Okla., and upon receipt of his report the information 
 shown thereby will be immediately furnished you. 
 
 Referring to your further inquiry as to the interest of the Mississippi Choc- 
 taw Indians in the common funds and property of the Choctaw Nation, you are 
 advised that the Mississippi Choctaw Indians whose names appear on the final 
 approved rolls of Mississippi Choctaw Indian citizens of the Choctaw Nation 
 are entitled to a per capita share in any distribution to the members of the Choc- 
 taw Nation of the Choctaw lands and tribal funds equally with other members 
 of the Choctaw Nation, except as provided in article 14 of the treaty of the 
 United States with the Choctaw Nation of September 27, 1830 (7 Stat. L., 333), 
 they would not be entitled to share in the Choctaw annuity fund referred to 
 therein. 
 
 As to the question of the right of Mississippi Choctaw Indian claimants who 
 have not been recognized and enrolled on the final rolls of the Choctaw Nation, 
 your attention is invited to my letter of January 8, 1915, to the chairman of the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 455 
 
 4^°qZi^rt^R° R^^oJSS ^^''l''? °* *^^ ^^'^'^ "^ Representatives concerning H. K. 
 4536 and H R 12586, pertaining to Mississippi Olioctaw claims 
 A copy of said letter is inclosed for your further information. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 TT XT T-, . Fbanklin K. Lane. 
 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashtjest, ^ii«j!.. 
 
 Chaii-man Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 STATEMENT CONCERNING CHOCTAW TBIBAI, FUNDS, LAND, AND OTHER COMMON 
 
 PROPERTY. 
 
 Tiihal funds of Choctaw yation— Balance in United States Treasury Dec. i, 19U. 
 
 Fulfilling treaties with Choctaws, Olilahoma $31 560 00 
 
 Interest on Choctaw general fund ' 3] 76 
 
 Choctaw orphan fund 39 jiq gg 
 
 Interest on Choctaw orphan fund . 5' 955! 62 
 
 Choctaw school fund 49' 472! 70 
 
 Interest on Choctaw school fund 7,420 92 
 
 Choctaw 3 per cent fund 330^364! 01 
 
 Interest on Choctaw 3 per cent fund 3l!971.80 
 
 Judgment, Court of Claims, Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations ' 86. 08 
 
 Interest on Choctaw moneys on deposit in banks 66, 380. 62 
 
 Indian moneys, proceeds of labor: 
 
 Choctaw cattle tax 1^ 006. 42 
 
 Choctaw right of way e] 521. 18 
 
 Choctaw royalties, grazing, etc 1 393, 684. 42 
 
 Choctaw stone and timber 4, 484. 95 
 
 Choctaw town lots 27,156.02 
 
 Choctaw unallotted lands, etc 1, 788, 738. 80 
 
 Balance in Treasury Dec. 4, 1914 2, 764, 518. 99 
 
 Deposited in Oklahoma banks : 
 
 Dec. 4, 1914 $3,235,606.72 
 
 Interest to June 30, 1914 205, 392. 16 
 
 3,440,998.88 
 
 Grand total 6, 205, 517. 87 
 
 Interest paid prior to July 1, 1914 26, 767. 22 
 
 Funds received {amounts approximate) to the credit of the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw "Nations — Proceeds of tri'bal land sales in November and Deoemier, 
 191J,. 
 
 Amount received at sale of surface of segregated coal and asphalt 
 
 land (approximate) $426, 825. 26 
 
 Amount received at sale of tribal timber land (approximate) 117, 211. 76 
 
 Total 544, 037. 02 
 
 Choctaw tribal share of the above proceeds of tribal land sales, 
 on the basis of a three-fourths interest therein, amounts to 
 
 (approximate) 408, 027. 70 
 
 Amount (approximate) of deferred payments (to Tie collected) on Choctaw and 
 
 Chiclcasaiv tribal lands. 
 
 Amount, of deferred payments on surface of segregated coal and 
 asphalt lands sold (approximate amount to be collected) $1,280,475.80 
 
 Amount of deferred payments on tribal timber land sold (ap- 
 proximate amount to be collected) 1,446,818.92 
 
 Amount of deferred payments on other surplus unallotted tribal 
 
 land (approximate amount to be collected) 3, 454, 391. 47 
 
 Total 6,181,686.19 
 
 Choctaw tribal share of the above deferred uncollected payments, 
 
 on the basis of a three-fourths interest therein, amounts to (ap- ^ „„„ „„^ „^ 
 
 proximate) •*• 636, 264. 64 
 
456 INDIAN" APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Estimated value of unsold Choctaw and Chiclcasaw triial land and other tribal 
 
 propertif. 
 
 Segregated coal and asphalt land (215,203 acres) : 
 
 Estimated value of surface $1, 847, 604. 09 
 
 Estimated value of coal and asplialt deposits 12,319,000.00 
 
 Tribal timber land (823,521.84 acres), estimated value of land 
 
 and timber 1, 806, 887. 14 
 
 Other surplus unallotted tribal land (25,600 acres) 75,000.00 
 
 Unsold town lots . i 51, 000. 00 
 
 Other tribal property, including school buildings and Choctaw 
 capitol building 50, 000. 00 
 
 Total estimate of unsold property 16,149,491.23 
 
 Choctaw tribal share of the unsold land and other property, upon 
 the basis of a three-fourths interest therein (estimated value) _ 12, 112, 118. 42 
 
 EBCAPITULATIOK. 
 
 Funds in United States Treasury and in banks to credit of Choc- 
 taw Nation, as shown by books of Indian Office, Dec. 4, 1914___ $6, 205, 517. 87 
 Choctaw Nation's share (approximate) : 
 
 In proceeds of sales of tribal land in November and Decem- 
 
 ber, 1914 408,027.76 
 
 In uncollected deferred payments on tribal land sold (ap- 
 
 proximate) 4^ 636,264.64 
 
 In unsold tribal land and other property (estimated value) __ 12, 112, 118.42 
 
 Total 23, 361, 928. 69 
 
 Department of the Intewoe, 
 
 Washington, January S, 1915. 
 
 My Dear Me. Stephens : I have the honor to refer herein to a communication 
 of August 12, 1914, from Hon. C. D. Carter, then acting chairman of the Com- 
 mittee on Indian AfCairs of the House of Representatives, with which was 
 inclosed a copy of H. R. 12586, entitled "A bill to reopen the rolls of the Choc- 
 taw-Chickasaw Tribe and to provide for the awarding of the rights secured 
 to certain persons by the fourteenth article of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit 
 creek, of date September twenty-seventh, eighteen hundred and thirty" He 
 also referred to H. R. 4536 and requested that I consider the two bills together 
 and make a report thereon. 
 
 ^cSJo"^- examination of H. R. 4536 I find that said bill is identical with H. R. 
 19213 introduced by Mr. Harrison, of Mississippi, in the Sixty-second Congress, 
 second session, upon which last-mentioned bill the department submitted to 
 your committee a report dated July 2, 1912. H. R. 12586, introduced in the 
 present Congress by Mr, Harrison is a similar bill to the above-mentioned 
 bills, except that m said H. R. 12586 an additional paragraph is included in 
 section 2 to provide for the enrollment of all persons who were identified as 
 Mississippi Ohoctaws by the Dawes Commission in its report of March 10 1899 
 commonly known as the McKennon roll, and of all persons identified as Missis- 
 ?SS^ Choctaws by the Dawes Commission from March 10, 1899, to Jlarch 4, 
 1907, whose identification was approved by the Secretary of the Interior, but 
 whose names did not appear on the final citizenship rolls of the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Nations. 
 
 The claims of Mississippi Choctaw Indiums to recognition as citizens of the 
 Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma and to share in the property of said nation are 
 based upon article 14 of the treaty of September 27, 1830 (7 Stat L., 335) 
 1 ursuant to the terms of the treaty, a large number of ChoctawS were trans- 
 ferred from Mississippi to the country west, later known as Indian Territory. 
 Ihese Choctaws who so removed and their descendants, now constitute the 
 mam body of what is known as the Choctaw Nation. There were however, 
 a considerable number of Choctaws who remained behind in Mississippi, some 
 of them under the provisions of article 14 above mentioned. 
 
 Said article 14 provided that the persons who claimel thereunder should 
 not lose the privilege of a Choctaw citizen, but if they ever removed, were not 
 to be entitled to any part of the Choctaw annuity. The Indians who remained 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 457 
 
 behind under the provisions of said article 14, received either land in Mississippi 
 or scrip which gave the applicants the right to enter public lands to certen 
 Southern Shites. A part of said scrip, however, was later commuted by a money 
 payment Some of the fourteenth-article claimants later made their wa^west 
 and joined the mam body of the tribe in the Indian Territory. The Choctaw 
 Council by various acts recognized the right of said absentee Mississippi Choc- 
 taws to remove to the nation, and actually invited them to do so 
 
 Under the provisions of the Atoka agreement with the Choctaw and Chicka- 
 saw Tribes contained in the act of Congress of June 28, 1898 (30 Stat L 495) 
 the supplemental agreement contained in the act of July 1 1902 (32 Stat L 
 641), and later acts of Congress for the purpose of carrying out the provisions 
 of said agreements, the claims of individual Mississippi Choctaw Indians to be 
 identified and to be enrolled as entitled to share in the property of the Choctaw 
 Nation, were fully considered by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes 
 and by the department after full hearing at which the claimants had ample 
 opportunity to present all the evidence which they could procure in support 
 of their claims. Very few claimants were able to prove descent from an 
 ancestor who received or applied for benefits under the provisions of article 
 14 of the treaty of 1830. 
 
 The history of the Dawes Commission enrollment work relative to Missis- 
 sippi Choctaw claimants is very fully set out in a communication of April 14, 
 1914, from William O. Beall, at one time secretary of the Commission to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes. A copy thereof is inclosed for your information. 
 
 For your further information as to the history of the Mississippi Choctaw 
 claims and of the department action in the preparation of the final rolls there 
 is inclosed a copy of department letter of July 2, 1912, to the chairman of the 
 Committee on Indian Affairs of the House of Representatives. 
 
 Judge William H. H. Clayton in his decision in the case of Jack Amos v. 
 The Choctaw Nation, a copy of which may be found in the appendix of the 
 Annnual Report of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, for the fiscal 
 year ended June 30, 1901. said that no treaty or acts of the Choctaw Council 
 or of any oflicer of the Choctaw Council since the treaty of 1830, could be cited, 
 or, at least, he had not found them, whereby any right or privilege had been 
 conferred, granted, or recognized in or to a Missississippi Choctaw so long as 
 he remained away from his people, and that no right was recognized or con- 
 ferred upon such absent Indian except upon the condition that he should remove 
 to the nation, and the right was not to be consummated or enjoyed until actual 
 removal. 
 
 Mississippi Choctaw Indians who, while the opportunity was theirs under 
 the privileges accorded them, refused to emigrate with the tribe to the new 
 country west, and who never shared in the burdens and hardships of the 
 pioneer life incident to the establishment of the new tribal government west of 
 the Mississippi, have at this late date (now that the tribal property of the 
 Choctaw Nation, made valuable by the emigrants, is being divided per capita 
 among the enrolled recognized citizens of the nation) no equitable right to 
 share in said property. 
 
 With respect to the persons who were identified by the Dawes Commission 
 as Mississippi Choctaws under the provisions of the act of Congress of June 
 28, 1898 (30 Stat. L., 495), but who failed to remove and make settlement in 
 the Choctaw-Chickasaw country, as required by the act of Congress of July 
 ], 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641, sees. 41, 42, 43, and 44), it may be said that irre- 
 spective of their unfortunate condition of poverty and ignorance there is no 
 ground, legal or equitable, for holding the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations 
 responsible for the failure of said identified persons to comply with the law 
 as to removal and settlement. No obligation rested upon the United States 
 to provide means for the removal of such Indians. 
 
 Referring to the class of claimants whose names were contained m an 
 identification roll submitted by the Commission to the Five Civilized aribes 
 on March 10, 1899, but never approved by the Secretary of the Interior your 
 attention is invited to the fact that the commission soon recognized the in- 
 accuracy and incompletenesss of that roll and requested the department to 
 disregard it and to return the same to the commission. In order that theie 
 might be no doubt as to the standing of said roll, it was disapproved by the 
 Stment on Mar?h 1, 1907. The larger part of the P/^'^^^lJ^°^%^^rL' 
 were contained on that disapproved roll were afterwards placed on he ap- 
 proved identification rolls, and those who complied with the law as to lemoval 
 
458 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 find settlement were enrolled on tlie final rolls of Mississippi Choctaw Indians. 
 In the investigation and examination of Mississippi Choctaw claims made in 
 1900 and the years following by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 every effort that was possible to be made was made by said commission to 
 reach all persons who had any equitable claim to recognition as Mississippi 
 Choctaws, and especially to find those who were full-blood Choctaw Indians. 
 
 H. R. 4536 and 12586 in effect provide, so far as the Mississippi Choctaw 
 claimants are concerned, a general reopening of the rolls of the Choctaw Na- 
 tion, necessitating a review of all the cases which had been adversely decided 
 by the United States courts, the Department of the Interior, and the Choctaw 
 and Chickasaw citizenship court, as well as the consideration of claims not 
 heretofore presented or considered, and empower the Secretary of the Interior 
 to determine the rights of the claimants upon such evidence as may be pro- 
 duced by the applicants without regard to any adverse judgment or decision 
 heretofore rendered by any court or Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes 
 or the Department of the Interior, and without regard to any condition or 
 disability heretofore imposed by any act of Congress. 
 
 The records of the department show that Mississippi Choctaw claimants have 
 been to an unusual extent the victims of numerous extortionate contracts, and 
 the correspondence in many cases indicates that contracts were obtained through 
 misrepresentations as to the facts, and in some cases that such contracts were 
 obtained from claimants who believed that the persons obtaining the contracts 
 were Government agents. Your attention is invited to the report of Inspector 
 McLaughlin of this department, which report appears in print in the Con- 
 gressional Record of July 10, 1914, commencing on page 13022. 
 
 Referring to section 9 of said bills, I am of the opinion that in view of the 
 large amount of tribal property yet to be disposed of and of other matters 
 affecting the tribes it would be inadvisable to abolish the tribal organization 
 of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations at the present time. 
 
 In view of the facts as presented to me I am of the opinion that no legisla- 
 tion should be enacted for the reopening of the rolls of the Choctaw Nation 
 for the benefit of the Mississippi Choctaw claimants. 
 
 Very truly, yours, Fbanklin K. Lane. 
 
 Hon. John H. Stephens, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives. 
 
 Department of the Interiob, 
 
 Washington, January 23, 1915. 
 My De,\e Senator : In further response to your inquiry of January 12, 1915, 
 concerning tribal funds of the Choctaw Nation and the individual Indian funds 
 to the credit of Choctaw allottees, I have the honor to advise you that the 
 department has just received a telegram of January 18, 1915, from the Super- 
 intendent for the Five Civilized Tribes, Muskogee, Okla., fi-om which it appears 
 that on December 31, 1914, there were to the credit of Choctaw allottees as in- 
 dividual Indian funds an amount aggregating approximately $279,889, of which 
 amount approximately $24,536 belongs to the individual Mississippi Choctaws. 
 Cordially, yours, 
 
 Fbanklin K. Lane. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashubst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Senator Lane. There were some letters that came to me yester- 
 day, one of them protesting against that council, saying that it cir- 
 cumscribed, or in some way or other interfered with, the free expres- 
 sion of the views of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think myself that that was a sort of settlement 
 between the commissioner and myself. I think I will have to with- 
 draw the settlement, because I will then have to probably contest 
 with the commissioner on the item, and substitute an item that does 
 not leave the council free to act. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is what you want to do ? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 459 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think so. We will take it up. They had a meet- 
 ing yesterday and may h&xe come to some agreement. 
 (The item was temporarily passed over.) 
 
 08A(ii; JIJIBAL FUNDS, EXPENDITURES THEEEFROJI. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have one more item that I would like to have incor- 
 porated in the bill under Oklahoma. The item and justification are 
 as follows : 
 
 AMENDMENT FOB INDIAN AI'PKOPRIATION ACT PERTAINING TO OSAGE AGENCY, OKLA. 
 
 The act of Congress approved June twenty-eighth, nineteen hundred and six 
 (Thirty-fourth Statutes, page five hundred and thirty-nine), and act of Congress 
 approved April eighteenth, nineteen hundred and twelve (Thirty-seventh Stat- 
 utes, page eighty-eight), authorizing expenditures from Osage tribal funds of not 
 exceeding $50,000 for schools and $40,000 for agency and emergency purposes, or 
 an aggregate of $00,000, is hereby amended to provide that not exceeding such 
 aggregate amount may be used for such purposes when authorized by the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior in such manner as he deems for the best interests of the 
 Osages, not exceeding, however, in the aggregate the amount so authorized. 
 
 MEMOEANDTJM. 
 
 The act of Congress approved June 28, 1906 (34 Stats., 539), providing for 
 division of lands and funds of the Osage Indians, authorizes the expenditure of 
 not to exceed $50,000 per annum for schools on the Osage Reservation and also 
 not exceeding $30,000 per annum for agency purposes, making an aggregate 
 of $80,000 per annum for such purposes. 
 
 Such specific provisions read as follows : 
 
 " There shall be set aside from the royalties received from oil and gas not 
 to exceed $50,000 per annum for ten years from the first day of January, nine- 
 teen hundred and seven, for the support of the Osage Boarding School and for 
 such other schools on the Osage Indian Reservation conducted or to be estab- 
 lished and conducted for the education of Osage children. 
 
 " There shall be set aside and reserved from royalties received from oil, gas, 
 coal, or other mineral leases and moneys received from the sale of town lots 
 and rents from grazing lands not to exceed $30,000 per annum for agency pur- 
 poses and as an emergency fund for the Osage Ti-ibe, which shall be paid out 
 from time to time upon the requisition of the Osage tribal council with the 
 approval of the Secretary of the Interior." 
 
 The act of Congress approved April 18, 1912 (37 Stats., 86), reading: 
 
 "An act supplementary tp and amendatory of the act entitled 'An act for the 
 division of lands and funds of the Osage Nation of Indians in Oklahoma ' " 
 modifies the original act and authorizes an expenditure for agency and emer- 
 gency purposes of not to exceed $40,000 per annum, thereby increasing such 
 authorized expenditures $10,000, such supplementary act reading as follows: 
 
 " Sec. 10. There shall be set aside and reserved from the royalties received 
 from oil, gas, or other tribal mineral rights or other tribal funds however arising, 
 not to exceed $40,000 per annum for agency purposes and as an emergency fund, 
 which money shall be paid out from time to time upon the requisition of the 
 Osage tribal council with the approval of the Secretary of the Interior: Pro- 
 liaea, That the provision in the act entitled 'An act makmg provisions for the 
 current and contingent expenses of the Indian Department and for fulfilling 
 treaty stipulations with various Indian tribes for the fiscal year ending June 
 thirtieth, eighteen hundred and ninety-eight, and for other purposes, approved 
 June seventh, eighteen hundred and ninety-seven (Thirtieth Statutes, eight 
 hundred and ninety), limiting the amount of money to be expended for sala- 
 ries of regular employees at any one agency, shall not hereafter apply to the 
 
 ^The relords'of the department show that about $35,000 per annum has been 
 used for educational purposes on the Osage Reservation, thereby leaving about 
 $15,000 per annum unused for such purposes. 
 
460 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 By reason of the great increase in detail work connected with the adminis- 
 tration for agency and emergency purposes since the passage of the allotment 
 act referred to, on account of complications and necessity for protecting Indians 
 after allotment, and more especially to properly supervise and investigate mat- 
 ters pertaining to the enormous tribal oil and gas production on this reserva- 
 tion, which has greatly increased since the passage of the allotment act, it has 
 been found that $40,000 appropriated for such agency and emergency purposes 
 is inadequate. It is therefore desired that the $50,000 per annum now au- 
 thorized from tribal funds to be expended for schools and the $40,000 now au- 
 thorized to be used from tribal funds for agency and emergency purposes be 
 authorized to be used for such purposes, not exceeding $90,000 in the aggre- 
 gate, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, in such manner as he 
 deems for the best interests of the Osages without restricting the specific 
 amounts each for schools or agency purposes. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Under existing law we have authority to expend 
 $50,000 of the Osage tribal funds for schools and $40,000 for agencies. 
 That legislation was passed a number of years ago, and the agency 
 side of the work has materially outgrown the school side. We are 
 not asking for an increased appropriation but simply consolidating 
 the two appropriations so that we can adjust the expenditure as 
 between the school and the agency in accordance with the actual 
 needs of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. It means the agency will get $9 and the schools $1 ; 
 is that not it ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we will continue the Osage schools, but we 
 will use the additional money for the agency purposes in order to 
 protect the oil interest of the Indians. That is the big feature of 
 that agency at the present time, and that is where the Indians get 
 their tribal funds. The oil interest should be more carefully looked 
 after. We have not had sufficient funds heretofore to give the oil 
 interest the careful supervision that it deserves. 
 
 Senator Page. Why do not the school interests require just the 
 same appropriation as heretofore? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. Because a number of the Osage Indians are now 
 entering the public schools, and we do not have the same enrollment 
 in the tribal schools that we formerly had. Public schools have been 
 established throughout the county. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you not think it would be more businesslike to 
 say just how much you want for each purpose rather than mix the 
 two together? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We would prefer that the appropriation be made in a 
 lump sum and permit the department to use whatever amount is 
 necessary for schools and whatever amount is necessary for agency 
 purposes. We are not asking for an increased appropriation. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there objection to that proposition? 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 HISTORY OF INDIAN EMIGRATION. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The questions of the rights of these various In- 
 dians, involved in removals, is constantly coming up, and I have had 
 prepared a very careful history of it, especially with reference to the 
 various acts, treaties, and proclamations, and I will ask that it be 
 inserted in this record as a part of these hearings. I believe it would 
 be of value to the committee, not only now but perhaps after we have 
 all ceased to be members of the comniittee. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 461 
 
 The Chairman. That is obviously very interesting data, and it 
 will be inserted in the record. 
 
 (The paper referred to is as follows:) 
 
 PAPEBS EELATING TO INDIAN EMIGBATION. 
 
 [From Messages and Papers ol the Presidents, James D. Richardson, published bv 
 authority of Congress, 1899; vol. 1, 1789-1817, p. 352.] 
 
 January 18, 1803. 
 Gvntlemen of the Senate and of the House of Representatives: 
 
 As tlie continuance of the act for establishing trading houses with the Indian 
 tribes will be under the consideration of the Legislature at its present sessioQ, 
 I think it my duty to communicate the views which have guided me in the exe- 
 cution of that act, in order that you may decide on the policy of continuing it 
 in the present or any other form, or discontinue it altogether if that shall, on 
 the whole, seem most for the public good. 
 
 The Indian tribes residing within the limits of the United States have for a- 
 considerable time been growing more and more uneasy at the constant diminu- 
 tion of the territory they occupy, although efCected by their own voluntary 
 sales, and the policy has long been gaining strength with them of refusing abso- 
 lutely all further sales on any conditions, insomuch that at this time it hazards 
 their friendship and excites dangerous jealousies and perturbations in their 
 rainds to make any Overture for the purchase of the smallest portions of their 
 land. A very few tribes only are not yet obstinately in these dispositions. In 
 order peaceably to counteract this policy of theirs, and to provide an extension 
 of territory which the rapid increase of our members will call for, two measures 
 are deemed expedient : 
 
 First. To encourage them to abandon hunting, to apply to the raising stock, 
 to agriculture, and domestic manufacture, and thereby prove to themselves that 
 less land and labor will maintain them in this than in their former mode of 
 living. The extensive forests necessary in the hunting life will then become 
 useless, and they will see advantage in exchanging them for the means of im- 
 proving their farms and of increasing their domestic comforts. 
 
 Secondly. To multiply trading houses among them, and place within their 
 reach those things which will contribute more to their domestic comfort than 
 the possession of extensive but uncultivated wilds. Experience and reflection 
 will develop to them the wisdom of exchanging what they can spare and we 
 want for what we can spare and they want. 
 
 In leading them thus to agriculture, to manufacture, and civilization, in 
 bringing together their and our sentiments, and in preparing them ultimately 
 to participate in the benefits of our Government, I trust and believe we are act- 
 ing for their greatest good. At these trading houses we have pursued the prin- 
 ciples of the act of Congress which directs that the commerce sh;ill be carried 
 on liberally, and requires only that the capital stock shall not be diminished. 
 TVe consequently undersell private traders, foreign and domestic, drive them 
 from the competition, and thus, with the good will of the Indians, rid our- 
 selves of a description of men who are constantly endeavoring to excite in the 
 Indian mind suspicions, fears, and irritations toward us. A letter now inclosed 
 shows the effect of our competition on the operations of the traders, while the 
 Indians, perceiving the advantage of purchasing from us, are .soliciting geuer- 
 nlly our establishment of trading houses among them. In one quarter this is 
 particularly interesting. The Legislature, reflecting on the late occurrences 
 on the Mississippi, must be sensible how desirable it is to possess a respectable 
 breadth of country on that river, from our southern limit to the Illinois, at 
 least, so that we may present as firm a front on that as on our eastern border. 
 We possess what is below the Yazoo, and can probably acquire a certain breadth 
 from the Illinois and Wabash to the Ohio, but between the Ohio and \azoo 
 the country all belongs to the Chickasaws, the most friendly tribe within our 
 limits, but the most decided against the alienation of lands. The portion of 
 their country most important for us is exactly that which they do not inhabit. 
 Their settlements are not on the Mississippi, but in the interior country. They 
 have lately shown a desire to become agricultural, and this leads to the desire 
 of buying implements and comforts. In the strengthening and gratifying of 
 these wants I see the only prospect of planting on the Mississippi itself the 
 means of its own safety. Duty has required me to submit these views to the 
 
462 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 judgment of the Legislature, but as their disclosure might embarrass and de- 
 feat their efl'ect, they are committed to the special confidence of the two Houses. 
 
 While the extension of the public commerce among the Indian tribes may- 
 deprive of that source of profit such of our citizens as are engaged in it, it 
 might be worthy the attention of Congress, in their care of individual as well 
 as of the general interest, to point in another direction the enterprise of these 
 citizens as profitably for themselves and more usefully for the public. The 
 Kiver Missouri and the Indians inhabiting it are not as well known as Is ren- 
 dered desirable by their connection with the Mississippi, and consequently with 
 us. It is, however, understood that the country on that river is inhabited by 
 numerous tribes, who furnish great supplies of furs and peltry to the trade of 
 another nation, carried in a high latitude, through an infinite number of 
 portages and lakes shut up by ice through a long season. The commerce on that 
 line could bear no competition with that of the Missouri, traversing a moderate 
 climate, offering, according to the best accounts, a continued navigation from its 
 source, and possibly with a single portage from the western ocean, and finding 
 to the Atlantic a choice of channels through the Illinois or Wabash, the Lakes 
 and Hudson, through the Ohio and Susquehanna, or Potomac or James Rivers, 
 and through the Tennessee and Savannah Rivers. An intelligent ofllcer with 
 10 or 12 chosen men, fit for the enterprise and willing to undertake It, taken 
 from our posts where they may be spared without Inconvenience, might ex- 
 plore the whole line, even to the western ocean, have conferences with the 
 natives on the sub.iect of commercial Intercourse, get admission among them 
 for our traders as others are admitted, agree on convenient deposits for an 
 Interchange of articles, and return with the information acquired in the course 
 of two summers. 
 
 Their arms and accouterments, some Instruments of observation, and light 
 and cheap presents for the Indians would be all the apparatus they could carry, 
 and, with an expectation of a soldier's portion of land on their return, would 
 constitute the whole expense. Their pay would be going on whether here or 
 there. While other civilized nations have encountered great expense to enlarge 
 the boundaries of knowledge by undertaking voyages of discovery and lor other 
 literary purposes in various parts and directions, our Nation seems to owe to 
 the same object as well as to Its own Interests to explore this the only line of 
 easy communication across the continent and so directly traversing our own 
 part of It. The interests of commerce place the principal object within the 
 constitutional powers and care of Congress, and that it should Incidentally 
 advance the geographical knowledge of our own continent can not but be an 
 additional gratification. The nation claiming the territory, regarding this as a 
 literary pursuit, which it is in the habit of permitting within its dominions, 
 would not be disposed to view It with jealousy, even If the expiring state of 
 its Interests there did not render it a matter of Indiflference. The appropria- 
 tion of $2,500 " for the purpose of extending the external commerce of the 
 United States," while understood and considered by the Executive as giving the 
 legislative sanction, would cover the undertaking from notice and prevent the 
 obstructions which interested individuals might otherwise previously prepare 
 in its way. 
 
 Th : Jefferson. 
 
 filar. 26, 1804. No. 699.1 
 
 AN ACT Krecting Louisiana into two Territories, and providing for the temporary 
 
 government thereof. 
 
 [TJ. S. Stat. L., vol. 2, p. 28.3.] 
 
 Be it enacted, etc.. 
 
 Sec. 15. The President of the United States is hereby authorized to stipulnte 
 with any Indian tribes owning lands on the east side of the Mississippi, iind 
 residing thereon, for an exchange of lands, the property of the United States, 
 on the west side of the Mississippi, in case the said tribes shall remove and 
 settle thereon ; but in such stipulation the said tribes shall acknowledge them- 
 selves to be under the protection of the United States, and shall agree thnt 
 they will not hold any treaty with any foreign power, individual State, or 
 with the individuals of any State or power ; and that they will not sell or dis- 
 pose of the said lands, or any part thereof, to any sovereign power except the 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 463 
 
 United States, nor to the subjects or citizens of any otlier sovereign power, 
 nor to the citizens of the United States. And in order to maintain peace and 
 tranquility with the Indian tribes wlio reside within the limits ol" Louisiana 
 as ceded by France to the United States the act of Cougret^s, passed on the 
 thirtieth day of March, one thousand eight bunded and two, intituled ''An act 
 to regulate trade and intercourse with the Indian tribes, and to preserve peace 
 on the frontiers," is hereby e.xtended to the Territories erected and established 
 by this act; and the sum of fifteen thousand dollars of any money in the 
 Treasury not otherwise' appropriated by law is hereby appropriated to enable 
 the President of the United States to effect the object expressed in this section. 
 
 [House of Representatives Executive Doc. No. 91, Twenty-first Congress, first sessiOD.l 
 
 Remove Indians — West of the Mississippi. 
 
 message of the president of the united states, tbansmitting, in compliance 
 with a besoltttion of the house of bepresentatives, of the 18th ultimo, 
 a report in relation to the expenses of rbmovino and supporting the 
 indians west of the mississippi. 
 
 April 14, 1830. Read, and laid upon the table. 
 
 To the House of Representatives. 
 
 April 13, 1830. 
 
 Gentlemen : I transmit herewith a report from the War Department, in 
 compliance with the resolution of the House, of the 18th ultimo, calling for 
 information in relation to the expenses incident to the removal and support of 
 the Indians West of the Mississippi, &c. &c. &c. 
 
 Andrew Jackson. 
 
 Department of War, 
 
 April 13, 1830. 
 
 Sir : I have the honor to submit enclosed reports, in answer to resolution of 
 the House of Representatives, of the 18th ultimo, asking information as to the 
 country West of the Mississippi, without the States and Territories, the situa- 
 tion, climate, soil, and productions, the average expense of removing the 
 Indians, and subsisting, for a year, those who have removed, with all expenses 
 incident to such removal and support; also, the military force necessary to 
 their protection, and the amount of expense necessary to the support of such 
 force, &c. 
 
 These reports present, in detail, the necessary facts to arrive at a definite 
 conclusion in reference to the several matters contained in the resolution. The 
 indisposition of the Indians, in former years, to enter into any treaty, for gen- 
 eral emigration to the West, has induced the Government to remove, from time 
 to time, and at irregular periods, such portions of them as could be collected ; 
 hence, nothing like system has been, or could be, adopted. It is believed, that, 
 hereafter, plans difEerent from former ones, and having more system m them 
 and greater economy, may be adopted. Still looking to the number of Indians 
 who reside within the States, the expenses of their removal and support for a 
 year can scarcely be calculated to fall below the estimates which are sub- 
 mitted It is a subject on which nothing of certain and positive calculation 
 can be made, as the result must be dependent on the state of the markets, and 
 value of needed supplies. The second Auditor's report is fully to be relied 
 upon, because it is made up of expenditures which heretofore have been in- 
 curred, and settled at that office. Whether future operations shall iMrease o 
 diminish that estimate, must depend upon proper management, and the altered 
 
 ''aI if Sds'the inquTry ''relative to the soil, climate, and productions of the 
 country, an the informatfon that has been obtained f'°°^ P«sons who have 
 visited this portion of our territory leads to the conclusion «>at'iQ nothing «f 
 these is it inferior to the country proposed to be ^I'.a'i'ioned on the East of the 
 Mlssissinui It Is, for the most part, an open prairie country, fertile, and easy 
 to be cumvated with timber sufficient for all agricultural purposes, and which 
 L k!nd"y Ind frlely re-produced in the prairies when they are settled ana 
 
464 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 trodden bv the stock. The climate is mild and agreeable, and produces cotton 
 to advantage throughout that portion of it where it is proposed to locate the 
 
 ^ AftTthTelpense to be incurred in the employment of a military force for 
 the preserYatTon of peace, nothing certain can be told. These tribes, from ime 
 immSill have dwelt Neighbors to each other, and, for years past, Have lived 
 n haZony It cannot be inferred that, by removing to the West any different 
 and hostne feelings will be engendered from those which heretofore have been 
 mamta'ned I woufd certainly become the duty of the United States, as well 
 as their Interest and policy, to stipulate for the protection of those tribes, and 
 tor me presenation ofpea'^e amongst them; but it is not believed that, for the 
 attainment of this, it would require any force different or larger than that 
 which has for several years been stationed on the Western frontiers; and con- 
 seauently, no additional expenditures would be incurred. It is not an improb- 
 able coniecture, that these four emigrating tribes, who have lived neighbors so 
 long who to some extent, speak and understand each other's language, and 
 who have' intermarried, may form an alliance, or, perhaps, being contiguous, 
 nresentlv become one nation of people. In this event, they, of all others withm 
 our borders, being best informed as to the strength, power, and numbers of the 
 whites could promise themselves nothing from war, while interest, the great 
 and governing consideration with man, would admonish them to peace. 
 
 Respectfully submitted. 
 
 John H. Eaton. 
 
 To the President of the United States. 
 
 TBEAStTBT DePASTMENT, 
 
 Second Auditor's Office, 
 
 April 12, 18S0. 
 
 Sir: In compliance with a resolution of the House of Bepresentatives of the 
 18th of last month, in relation to the Creek Indians who have emigrated West 
 of the Mississippi river, I have the honor to send you herewith a statement 
 giving all the information which this office affords upon the subjects referred 
 to in the resolution. It shows what the removal of the Creek Indians to the 
 West of the Mississippi has cost the Government per head; what it has cost 
 to support them twelve months after their arrival; and the estimated cost of 
 removing all the Southern Indians East of the Mississippi to the country 
 designed for them West of it. 
 
 By reference to this statement, it will be seen that Brearly's party of In- 
 dians, who emigrated in 1827 and 1828, cost the Government upwards of 
 $40 per head, whilst Crowell's party, taken across the river in 1829, cost 
 little upwards of $20 per head. The expense of neither of these parties should 
 be taken as a criterion by which to judge of the cost of future removals. The 
 party conducted by Mr. Brearly cost double what Col. Crowell's did; and 
 Crowell's, I feel confident, cost as much again as they can, in future, with 
 proper management and economy, be removed for. On examining his account 
 of expenditures, (which is the most moderate) I observe that the $27,585 
 consist of the following items : 
 
 I>rovisions furnished the Indians, during 4 months, at the place of 
 
 rendezvous whilst collecting $7,000.00 
 
 Hire of wagons, teams, horses, &c 5, 500. 00 
 
 Freight of steamboat 900.00 
 
 Ferriages 920. 00 
 
 Amount paid individuals for their services in collecting the Indians, 
 &c. and accompanying them from the Creek Agency to their new 
 
 residence, &c 3, 500.00 
 
 Provisions furnished the emigrants on their way to their new resi- 
 dence 8, 070. 00 
 
 Forage for 187 horses 485,00 
 
 Contingent expenses — for sugar, coffee, &c 1,210.00 
 
 Total amount ^ !_ 27, 585.00 
 
 The enormous expense of collecting and feeding the Indians, previous to their 
 departure from the place of rendezvous, might, it seems to me, with proper 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 465 
 
 management, have been greatly reduced ; indeed, I should thing it ought not 
 to have exceeded J2,000. It will be perceived, too, by reference to this account 
 that there might have been a great saving in the item of transportation if the 
 Indians could have been collected at the proper season of the year and talven 
 to their new country by water. About SOO of them embarked on board of a 
 steamboat, and would have been conveyed to Little Rock for $900 if there had 
 been sufficient water in the Arkansas river, whilst 500, traveling over land 
 cost the Government about ,f.5,O0O. The item of $3,500, paid to individuals for 
 collecting and assisting in conveying the Indians to their place of destination 
 I think is greatly too much for such services, and ought not to have exceeded 
 half that amount. It seems also' that Col. Crowell was eighty days in per- 
 forming the journey, which might have been accomplished in thirty, if he had 
 gone by water at the season of the year when the rivers afford navigation for 
 steamboats. Believing, therefore, as I do, that the expenses even of Colonel 
 Crowell's party of Indians, consisting of 1,300, might, with proper management 
 and economy, have been greatly reduced ; and having observed also, in adjust- 
 ing Mr. Brearly's accounts, that the expenses of a small party oif Creeks, headed 
 by Mcintosh, one of their chiefs, amounted only to about ten dollars per head, 
 I feel confident that the expenses of removing the Indians in future will cost 
 less than one-half of the lowest sum for which it has been done by any of our 
 agents. If the Creeks and Cherokees. the most remote, can be removed for 
 ten dollars per head, as has been shown in the case of the Mcintosh party, 
 I am sure the removal of the Choctaws and Chickasaws would not cost more 
 than half that sum, owing to the proximity of their present country to the one 
 which has been assigned them, and the facilities of transportation. From 
 no part of their territory would it require a journey of more than four or five 
 days to reach the Mississippi river, from whence they might embark on board 
 of a steamboat, and in one week be landed at Little Rock. 
 
 Having bestowed some reflection upon this subject, in conclusion I would 
 suggest for your consideration, whether the best and cheapest mode of remov- 
 ing the Indians, should they consent to go, would not by contract, at so much 
 per head. If this plan of removal should be adopted, I would advise that 
 separate contracts be entered into for each tribe. At least four months' 
 notice should be given In the most respectable newspapers in the Union, and the 
 contracts let out to the lowest bidder, requiring good and sufficient security 
 for their faithful performance. As it would not be safe or prudent, perhaps, 
 to trust a matter of so much importance to the entire management and direc- 
 tion of the contractors, I would further suggest the propriety, as a necessary 
 precaution, of appointing highly respectable and confidential persons to super- 
 intend the movements of the Indians, and see that they be treated with 
 humanity, and furnished with a plenty of good and wholesome provisions, and 
 the necessary transportation. The superintendents should be vested with 
 power to draw upon the Government for funds, and make such advances only 
 to the contractors as would be sufficient to keep the Indians in motion until 
 they shall have completed their journey, when a final settlement should be 
 made, and the balance, if any, due them, be paid. This would prevent imposi- 
 tion on the Government, and ensure speedy and energetic movements on the 
 part of the contractors. 
 
 If the plan of removal, as suggested above, be adopted by the Government, 
 I feel perfectly safe in hazarding an opinion that it will not cost on an average 
 more than eight dollars per head, to remove every Indian East of the Mis- 
 sissippi to the country which has been selected for them West of it. The ex- 
 penses of the Creeks and Cherokees will not exceed ten dollars, and those of 
 the Chickasaws and Choctaws not more than five, or, at furthest, six dollars 
 per head. In this estimate I may be mistaken; but, if I am, I am sure it 
 cannot exceed ten dollars. , - ^, ,,. . . . 
 
 In estimating the expense of removing the Indians tt est of the Mississippi, 
 the pay of superintendents and other agents, necessarily employed in the work, 
 has not been taken into consideration. This, however, must form but an incon- 
 siderable item in the expenditure. Nor has any estimate been made as to the 
 probable value of the improvements which will have to be paid for; because 
 there are no certain data in this office, upon which a calculation can be based. 
 
 I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant, ^ ^ Lewis 
 
 Hon. John H. Eaton, 
 
 Secretary of War. 
 
 82833—15 30 ' 
 
466 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Statement prepared in oiedience to a resolution of the House of Representatives, 
 of the 18th March, 1830, relative to the emigration of the Creek Indians 
 beyond the Mississippi, and the subsisting of them for one yeaf. 
 
 The expense of D. Brearly, Agent for the emigrating • Creeks, in 1827 and 
 
 1S28, in collecting and emigrating about 1200 individuals, including about 172 
 
 slaves, amounts to $52,297, averaging $43.58 per head. 
 The expense of John Crowell, Indian Agent for the Creek Nation, in collecting 
 
 and emigrating, in the year 1829, about 1300 individuals, including about 30 
 
 slaves, amounts to $27,585.20, averaging $21.22 per head. 
 
 The subsisting of the emigrants of the Creek Nation West of the 
 Mississippi for a year, has amounted to. per accounts rendered to 
 31st January, 1829 $39,897.75 
 
 The amount required to subsist the party that emigrated under John 
 
 Crowell, for the complement of the year, is 20, 696. 57 
 
 Making the aggregate amount of $60,594.32 
 
 And the average of subsisting one individual for one year, $24.22. 
 
 The amount of rations issued to 31st January, 1829, per returns on file in this 
 office, is 550,020, consisting of — 
 
 15,351 bushels corn, average price $1.03t^ $15, 947. 37 
 
 801f barrels flour 800.00 
 
 670,706 pounds beef, average price 3^^ cts 22, 074. 63 
 
 340 bushels salt, average price 87 295. 75 
 
 30 barrels Pork 780. 00 
 
 Amounting to $39, 897. 75 
 
 By the last abstract of issues it appears, that there were 1,252 individuals of 
 the emigration under Col. Crowell, who were to be supported for seven months 
 and a half, to complete the year ; they were entitled to 36,595 rations a month, 
 making for the complement of the year, 274,466 rations; consisting of — 
 
 342,080 pounds of beef, contracted for at 3* cts $11, 972. 80 
 
 7,623 bushels of corn, contracted for at $1.12J 8, 575. 87 
 
 170J bushels of salt, contracted for at 87 147. 90 
 
 Total $60, 594. 32 
 
 The total amount of rations to subsist 2,500 men for one year, is 824,486, costing 
 the Government $60,594.32, and averaging T~}^\ per ration. 
 
 The warriors who emigrate receive a rifle, blanket, camp kettle, beaver trap, 
 and butcher knife, each ; average cost $30. 
 
 The tribes muster about one warrior to every seven men; amount of emigrated 
 warriors about 357 ; aggregate amount of presents, $10,710. 
 
 Estimate of the expense of removing all the Indians on the East of the Missis- 
 sippi to the country West of it. 
 
 Computed number 55, 000 
 
 Cost per head 8 
 
 Cost of emigration $440,000 
 
 Expense of subsisting for one year. West of the Jlississippi ; this 
 calculation is made in accordance with the returns of issues; 
 allowing 1,180-| rations to 1,252 individuals, on account of the 
 children under 8 years of age, 18,920,505 rations, at 8 cents per 
 ration, equal to 1,513,640 
 
 Total amoimt i $1, 953, 640 
 
 Average number of warriors on 55,000 — 7,857 at $30 for presents $235, 710 
 
 W. B.. Lewis. 
 Teeasuey Depaetment, 
 
 Second Atjditoe's Office, April, 1830. 
 
IJS'DIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 46? 
 
 Depaktment of War, 
 Office Indian Affairs, 
 
 April Gth, 1830. 
 
 Sir: The resolution of the honorable the House of Representatives of the 
 ]Stli ultimo, which you have referred to this office, directing me to report upon 
 it to you. calls for the following information : 
 
 1st. The extent of countiy beyond the river Mississippi, and not within the 
 States and organized Territories, to which the Indian title has been extin- 
 guished. 
 
 2d. The geogi-aphicnl situation of said country. 
 
 3(1. Its climate, soil, and productions, if known. 
 
 4th. The average expense per head of removing beyond the Mississippi and 
 subsistence for a year, the Creels Indians who have gone beyond that river 
 including all expenses incident to such removal and support. 
 
 5th. An estimate of the expense of removing all the Indians on the East of 
 the Mississippi, to the country West of it, and for subsisting them for a year 
 thereafter. 
 
 6th. The military force that will be necessary for their protection in their 
 new residence, against other tribes of Indians, the encroachments of the whites, 
 and wars among themselves. 
 
 7th. The annual expense of supporting such force ; and 
 
 8th. Whether the tribes beyond the States and Territories, are friendly to 
 the removal among them, of the tribes within the States and Territories. 
 
 The extent of country to which the Indian title has been extinguished West of 
 the river Mississippi, and not within the States and organized Territories, may 
 be stated at sixty-nine millions two hundred and flfty-seven thousand six 
 hundred acres. 
 
 Its geographical situation is West, by the 26° longitude West from the 
 meridian of Washington; East by the boundary of Missouri and Arkansas; 
 North between the parallels of 41° and 44° North; South by the Canadian 
 river. '-^ 
 
 For its climate, soil, &c. I refer to the following extract of a report from 
 General Clark, of St. Louis, addressed to the Department in 1825. 
 
 " The great body of the cession lies West of Missouri and Arkansas, and 
 is so extensive, that, after leaving the Kanzas and Osages, a district sufficient 
 for their permanent residence, and after furnishing homes for the tribes, whose 
 accommodation was tbe immediate object of your instructions, it will still leave 
 enough to enable them to comply with the stipulations of the treaty made with 
 the Creek Indians last winter; and also to furnish permanent residences to 
 other tribes in different States, who may be willing to remove to the West, in 
 pursuance of the system for the gradual removal and collocation of the 
 Indians." 
 
 " I find, from information derived from persons to be relied upon, that the 
 country embraced in these cessions is wonderfully adapted to an Indian popula- 
 tion in the first stages of civilization. Grass is universally abundant, and the 
 winters, in a great portion of the cession, mild enough to winter cattle, horses, 
 and other domestic animals, to subsist themselves without care from their own- 
 ers. On all creeks and rivers, there are bottoms of rich land easily prepared 
 for cultivation. The country is divided into woodland and prairie — but mostly 
 prairie, and is well watered by springs and running streams, and is convenient 
 to the salt plains, and springs of strong salt water, from which an inexhaustible 
 supply of salt can be obtained; and also to the great Buffalo range, from which 
 supplies can be obtained, until they can be supplied from their own flocks. 
 Coal abounds of the finest quality. . 
 
 The average expense, per head, of removing the Creek Indians who have 
 emigrated has been 33 dollars ; but it is believed, under the system of contracts 
 which I had the honor to recommend in my .annual report of 17th November 
 last, the cost may be considerably reduced. The cost of supportirig the Indians 
 for a year after their arrival, has been, in application to the Creeks, at the rate 
 of six cents per day each. , . ,, ,^ „„, „ i„ 
 
 The incidental expense which has attended the removal of the Creeks, is 
 embraced in the foregoing, from which it appears the entire cost attending the 
 removal of each Creek, and supporting him, has been fifteen cents per day, or 
 fifty-five dollars a year. But subsequent experience m taking oyer the last 
 party has shown that, even under the present system, it need not amount to 
 
468 IKDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 more tlian about half the cost of the first movements, and it may, as I have 
 stated, be still reduced, by a system of contracts. 
 
 The value of the improvements abandoned by them, is not included; nor is it 
 supposed it was intended it should be, since what is paid for these, will be reim- 
 bursed, it is fair to presume, in the additional value which these improvements 
 will give to the soil. 
 
 If fifty-five dollars be assumed as the cost attending the removal of each 
 Indian, and supporting him for a year after his removal; and if there are, as 
 is presumed to be the case, 80,000 Indians East of the Mississippi, the entire 
 cost will be, for removing them and supporting them for a year, 4,400,000 
 dollars. If from this be deducted the difference between the actual cost of 
 the first and last party, (the first conducted by Colonel Brearly, the last by 
 Colonel Crowell,) it would cost $2,880,000; and if one-third be deducted from 
 this, under a system of contracts, which I think would be a fair reduction, it 
 would be $2,294,000. 
 
 It is proper to remark, that this estimate is based on the removal of 80,000 
 Indians. This number has been assumed, because the inquiry contained in the 
 resolution embraces " all the Indians on the East of the Mississippi." If, how- 
 ever, it were confined to the Indians which it is presumed may have been 
 intended to be embraced, viz : the four Southern tribes, Chickasaws, Choctaws, 
 Creeks, and Cherokees, the Seminoles in Florida, and the fragments of bands 
 in Ohio and Indiana, &e. these numbering about 60,000, it would be proper to 
 deduct one-fourth, which would leave $1,720,500. 
 
 This sum would be a charge upon the Treasury for so much expended in 
 removing Indians to, and supporting them for a year in, the country heretofore 
 described; but if the inquiry embraced the question of reimbursing it, there 
 would be no difficulty in shevring that the lands abandoned by those Indians 
 would, when sold, reimburse not only this sum, but furnish a fund besides, foi' 
 their improvement in the West for many years. As, however, this information 
 is not called for, I forbear to enter upon a calculation of the number of acres 
 of lands that are now claimed and occupied by these eighty thousand Indians ; 
 and to shew the probable value of the same. 
 
 I cannot perceive that any additional military force would be required for 
 their protection, to that which is at present situated on the borders of the 
 country heretofore described; and therefore, in my opinion, no additional 
 expense need be incurred for this object. The great body of the Indians who 
 would occupy that country would be neighbors and friends there, as they are 
 in their present relations to each other. It would be as reasonable to expect 
 a war between the Choctaws and Chickasaws in Mississippi ; or the Cherokees 
 in Georgia, and Creeks in Alabama ; or between the Creeks in Alabama ancl 
 Seminoles in Florida, where they are, as to suppose that a war would break out 
 between them when neighbors, as they would be, in the country to which it is 
 proposed to remove them. Such a war is not anticipated, nor thought of, as a: 
 all probable here, nor need it be, in my opinion, there. But if any collisions 
 should arise in the West, between the tribes, the military force, when especially 
 employed in aid of the injured or aggrieved party, would restore peace. Such a 
 body of Indians, united by ties such as are known to subsist between the 
 Indians East of the Mississippi, and which it is not unreasonable to suppose 
 would be strengthened in their removal to a distant country; would render 
 harmless the roving and more distant bands ; but with the military on their 
 borders, their situation might be looked upon as secure. Laws should be 
 enacted, and duly and rigidly enforced, to preserve them from the encroach- 
 ments, of the whites. These laws, in the hands of the Indians, without the aid 
 of the military, would be sufficient, were the privileges given to them to enforce 
 them, to keep out the whites. 
 
 The Indian tribes who have emigrated are not opposed to their friends fol- 
 lowing them, though in one or two cases in which a chief has asked for an 
 extension of country, he has been made to say, that, if the extent of country 
 can not be granted, he has no more room for others. But these are but words 
 of course, and it is even doubtful whether he knew they were written. The 
 country referred to is that which the Cherokees claim beyond Arkansas, and is 
 given by treaty, (in which the Cherokees of the West hold out every induce- 
 ment to their brothers in the East to join them,) not to that ixirtion who have 
 emigrated only, but to the whole Cherokee nation. And it is ample. 
 
 It is believed that the Indians in the West would rejoice if their friends iu 
 the East would join them. Their strength would be augmented by the union, 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 469 
 
 and their repose and security insured to them; and families that are now sena- 
 rated would meet and rejoice in coming together again. 
 Respectfully submitted. 
 
 m ii, Ti T TT T. Thos. L. McKenney. 
 
 To the Hon. John H. Eaton, 
 
 Secretary of War. 
 
 [May 28, 1830. No. ]718a.] 
 
 AN ACT To provide for an exchange of lands with the Indians residing in any of the 
 htatcs or lorritories, and for their removal west of the river Mississippi. 
 
 [U. S. Stat. L., vol. 4, p. 411.] 
 
 Be it enacted, etc., * * * That it shall and may be lawful for the Presi- 
 dent of the United States to cause so much of any territory belonging to the 
 United States, west of the river Mississippi, not included in any State or organ- 
 ized Territory, and to which the Indian title has been extinguished, as he may 
 judge necessary, to be dvided into a suitable number of districts, for the recep- 
 tion of such tribes or nations of Indians as may choose to exchange the lands 
 where they now reside, and remove there ; and to cause each of said districts to 
 be so described by natural or artificial marks as to be easily distinguished 
 from every other. 
 
 Sec. 2. Ami lie it further enacted, That it shall and may be lawful for the 
 President to exchange any or all of such districts, so as to be laid off and de- 
 scribed, with any tribe or nation of Indians now residing within the limits of 
 any of the States or Territories, and with which the United States have existing 
 treaties, for the whole or any part or portion of the territory claimed and occu- 
 pied by such tribe or nation, within the bounds of any one or more of the States 
 or Territories, where the land claimed and occupied by the Indians is owned by 
 the United States, or the United States are bound to the State within which it 
 lies to extinguish the Indian claim thereto. 
 
 Sec. 3. And tie it further enacted. That in the making of any such exchange 
 or exchanges, it shall and may be lawful for the President solemnly to assure 
 the tribe or nation with which the exchange is made that the United States will 
 forever secure and guarantee to them, and their heirs or successors, the country 
 so exchanged with them; and if they prefer it, that the United States will 
 cause a patent or grant to be made and executed to them for the same : Provided 
 always. That such lands shall revert to the United States if the Indians become 
 extinct or abandon the same. 
 
 Sec. 4. And tie it further enacted. That if, upon any of the lands now occu- 
 pied by the Indians and to be exchanged for, there should be such improve- 
 ments as add value to the land claimed by any individual or individuals of such 
 tribes or nations, it shall and may be lawful for the President to cause such value 
 to be ascertained by appraisement or otherwise and to cause such ascertained 
 ■ value to be paid to the person or persons rightfully claiming such improvements. 
 And upon the payment of such valuation, the improvements so valued and paid 
 for shall pass to the United States, and possession shall not afterwards be 
 permitted to any of the same tribe. 
 
 Sec. 5 And be it further enacted, That upon the making of any such exchange 
 as is contemplated by this act it shall and may be lawful for the President to 
 cause such aid and assistance to be furnished to the emigrants as may be neces- 
 sary and proper to enable them to remove to and settle m the country tor 
 which they may have exchanged, and also to give them such aid and assistance 
 as may be necessary for their support and subsistence for the first year after 
 
 Sm.T°lnd be it further enacted. That it shall and may be lawful for the 
 President to cause such tribe or nation to be protected at their new residence 
 against all interruption or disturbance from any other tribe or nation of In- 
 dians, or from any other person or persons whatever. i„„f„i *„^ tha 
 
 Sec. 7. And be it futher enacted, That it shall and may be lawful for the 
 President to have the same superintendence and care over any tribe or nation 
 in the country to which they may remove, as contemplated by this act that he 
 is now authorized to have over them at their present Pl^ff/ °f/,«fi'^«°^^i- r°: 
 vided, That nothing in this act contained shall be construed as authorizing or 
 
470 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 directing the violation of any existing treaty between the United States and 
 any of the Indian tribes. 
 
 Sec. 8. And be it further enacted, That for the purpose of giving effect to the 
 provisions of this act the sum of five hundred thousand dollars is hereby appro- 
 priated, to be paid out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated. 
 
 [House of Representatives, Document No. 82, Twenty-fourth Congress, second session.] 
 
 Exchange of Lands with Indians. 
 
 [To accompany bill H. E. No. 815.] 
 
 January 17, 1837. Printed by order of the House of Representatives. 
 
 Washington, January 2, 183T. 
 Sir: I have the honor to enclose a resolution, adopted by the House of Rep- 
 resentatives on the 23d ult., and request that you will furnish me with such 
 information, for the use of the Committee on Indian AfCairs, as the department 
 may have, that will aid the Committee on Indian Affairs in deciding upon the 
 expediency of holding treaties with the tribes named in the resolution. It is 
 desirable to know the number of each, the quantity of land held by each, and 
 every circumstance in their condition and prospects connected with the proposed 
 measure. 
 
 I will thank you to add an expression of your views respecting them, and 
 respecting the arrangements that are expedient with other tribes. 
 With sentiments of high respect, your obedient servant, 
 
 J. Gaeland. 
 Hon. Benjamin F. Btttler, 
 
 Becretary of War ad interim,. 
 
 Wae Department, January 9, 18ST. 
 Sir : I have the honor to return the resolution of the House of Representa- 
 tives of the 23d ultimo, transmitted in your letter of the 2d instant, accom- 
 panied by a report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs; and to express my 
 concurrence in the views and recommendations contained in it. 
 Very, &c., 
 
 B. F. Butler, 
 Secretary of War ad interim. 
 Hon. James Garland, 
 
 Committee on Indian Affairs, E. of Reps. 
 
 War Department, Opeice oe Indian Affairs, 
 
 January 9, 1831. 
 
 Sir : In compliance with your direction to report on the subjects embraced in 
 the resolution of the House of Representatives of the 23d ultimo, and the letter 
 of the honorable Mr. Garland, of the Committee on Indian Affairs, transmitting 
 it, I respectfully submit the following remarks : 
 
 The resolution directs an inquiry " into the expediency of appropriating money 
 for holding treaties with, and the purchase of lands belonging to, the Sac, Fox, 
 Sioux, and Winnebago Indians, in Wisconsin Territory, and to provide for their 
 removal west of the Mississippi river." 
 
 1. The Sacs and Foxes are one nation, and jointly with the loways, claim 
 an interest in the lands north of the State of Missouri, embraced within the 
 lines described on Tanner's map of the United States, published in 1836, as 
 belonging to them, estimated to contain eleven millions of acres. The claim of 
 the loways to a portion of this tract was admitted by the Sacs and Foxes, in 
 the third article of the treaty with them and other tribes, of the 19th of August, 
 1825. The " division of their respective claims," provided for in the same arti- 
 cle, has not been made, and it is not known upon what authority a part is rep- 
 resented on the map as having been set apart for the loways. In point of fact, 
 they have not occupied it, but have lived on the Little Platte, fifteen miles wesl 
 of the line of the State of Missouri,. Under an arrangement recently made with 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 471 
 
 '^u"' "^A^^^ Is now before the Senate, they will remove south of the Missouri 
 where 400 sections have been assigned for them and the little band of the Sacs 
 of Missouri, between the great Nemahaw and the northern boundary of the 
 Kickapoos. The loways, however, must be a party to any negotiation for the 
 extinguishment of the title to the lands described for them and the Sacs and 
 Foxes on the map. 
 
 It Is understood that the Sacs and Foxes, having, in a treaty now before the 
 Senate, ceded and consented to remove from the reservation on the loway river 
 contemplate establishing new villages immediately west of it. If any new treaty 
 is to be made with them, it is obviously desirable that it should be done before 
 this design is carried into effect. 
 
 The country yet claimed by them, says the Governor of Wisconsin, " is not 
 surpassed by any lands in the United States or Territory, and contains upwards 
 of ten millions of acres. I have no doubt it is the policy of the Government to 
 extinguish the Indian title to this country as soon as possible. The proximity 
 of the white settlements to the boundary line between the United States and 
 these Indians, and the tide of emigration, being so great to this country, that 
 the sooner the country is purchased, and the Sac and Fox Indians removed 
 south of the Missouri river, the better." 
 
 " The chiefs and principal men of these nations are under the belief that their 
 country Is to become immensely valuable; and I have no doubt, their traders 
 were the means of preventing their selling more of their country, at the treaty 
 I made with them. It is inconvenient for traders to follow the Indians south 
 of the Missouri. The members of the American Fur Company find it much more 
 profitable to keep the Sac and Fox Indians located near them." 
 
 These remarks indicate the expediency of acquiring possession of the lands of 
 these Indians, and the obstacles to a successful effort. The probability, sug- 
 gested by Governor Dodge, that more could have been obtained from them at 
 the late treaty, is confirmed by a verbal statement of one of their traders — that 
 if a delegation is permitted to come to this place, they would cede the lands 
 west of the cession of 1S.32, to a line drawn due north from its southwest corner. 
 A glance at the map will show that this would embrace the most valuable of 
 the lands bordering on the rivers ; which would, no doubt, be as quickly settled 
 as the tract ceded in 1832, which now contains 40,000 persons. 
 
 The removal of these Indians south of the Missouri would put an end to the 
 collisions and bloody encounters between them and the Sioux ; while, when the 
 line of military posts Is established, as provided for by Congress at its last 
 session, the aggressions of the latter upon our own settlements would be 
 prevented. 
 
 2. A council was held with the Wlnnebagoes in October last, by Governor 
 Dodge, at which a proposition was made to them to relinquish their country, 
 and remove south of the Missouri river. To this proposition they did not 
 accede; " I have no doubt," says the Governor in his report, " had the Indians 
 been left to the exercise of their own Judgment, they would have consented to 
 have sold their country east of the Mississippi river. Their traders were op- 
 posed to their removal south of the Missouri river, and, I have no doubt, dic- 
 tated the course taken by them at the late treaty held with them." He proceeds 
 to express the opinion, that they would agree to cede their lands, if the whole of 
 the neutral ground, west of the Mississippi, a portion of which was given to 
 them in the treatv of September, 3 832, were assigned to them. The policy ot 
 this arrangement" is more than doubtful, could it be effected, which is very 
 uncertain. , ... 
 
 The Wlnnebagoes, as stated in my annual report, are averse to residing on 
 this tract, from their apprehension of the Sioux. They could not long remain 
 there, as the white settlement would rapidly multiply around them It would 
 seem to be a wiser measure, looking merely at their own interests, to establish 
 them permanently south of the Missouri, in the vicinity of the loways, Otoes, 
 and Missourias, who speak dialects closely connected with their own The 
 country owned by them north of the Wisconsin they cannot subsist on ; and their 
 condition in that ceded by them in 1832, upon which they have "ntil recently re- 
 mained, has been most wretched, notwithstanding the liberal provision then made 
 for them To a special agent, who visited them m 1835, they described their 
 sltuaUon'as "most deplorfble.'" He stated that thej were dispersed over the 
 countrv driven bv the whites from place to place, and that some of their joung 
 men had belnrecently whipped. Later accounts from tb%commanding officer 
 at Fort Winnebago indicate the existence among them of the same degiee of 
 misery it cannot be doubted that they would possess more advantages, and be 
 
472 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 in a state of greater security, tranquillity, and comfort, if they were settled 
 south of the Missouri river. 
 
 3. The Governor of Wisconsin Territory has recommended the purchase of all 
 the pine lands owned by the Sioux and Chippewas east of the Mississippi river. 
 These may be described as lyiiig west and south of a line drawn from the 
 upper rapids of the Wisconsin to the junction of Muddy and Pine rivers, and 
 reaching to the Mississippi ; but it may be expedient that the purchase should be 
 extended, to include the timbered lands south and west of that river. The fol- 
 lowing extract from a letter of Governor Dodge shows his views upon this 
 subject: " I think, however, the proper policy would be, to purchase of the Chip- 
 pewa and Sioux Indians all their pine country east of the Mississippi river, as 
 early next season as these Indians could be convened. The country belonging to 
 both the Sioux and Chippewas abounds in pine, is barren of game, and, unfit tor 
 cultivation, and valuable alone for its lumber materials. That being the case, 
 it would not be difficult to efCect a purchase of that whole pine region of country. 
 The Chippewa Indians are poor and in want; and, in justice to them, as well 
 as the proper policy, I think, to be observed towards the Indians generally on 
 our borders, the sooner the pine country can be purchased, the better both for 
 the Indians and the citizens of this Territory." 
 
 It may be added, that privileges to erect mills for cutting this timber have been 
 obtained from the chiefs for, it is believed, very inadequate considerations ; the 
 payment of which has been made directly to the Indians by the persons holding 
 the privileges, without the intervention or supervision of any agent of the Gov- 
 ernment. The sanction of the department has of late years been refused to 
 these grants of the chiefs; but, by a radical defect in the intercourse law, it 
 has no authority to prevent any one from entering the Indian country, either 
 with or without the assent of the chiefs, and cutting and carrying ofiC the timber, 
 although such practice is certainly at variance with its spirit and intent. The 
 value of these privileges may be gathered from the statement of Governor 
 Dodge, that " the amount which should be paid for each saw mill of one saw, 
 I would estimate at five hundred (500) dollars per annum;" "and for each 
 additional saw in operation, the same amount should be paid." It would seem 
 to be obviously better for the Indians to purchase the whole pine country at 
 once, and to give them a liberal compensation, to be applied for their benefit, 
 under the direction of the President. 
 
 Having presented these views respecting the expediency of negotiating with 
 the Indian tribes named in the resolution before me, I proceed, in accordance 
 with the wish expressed by Mr. Garland, to submit some remarks connected 
 with the general subject of removal and settlement south of the Missouri river. 
 
 It may be proper for me to state here, in general terms, that if treaties, con- 
 cluded during the past year with the Menomonie Indians, and the New York 
 Indians interested in the lands at Green Bay, and which are now before the 
 Senate, be ratified, their title will be extinguished to all the country north of 
 Wolf ri^er. nnd.west of Fox river and Green Bay, with the exception of a re- 
 serve for a band of the latter of fifty thousand (50,000) acres, and one township 
 for the Stockbridges and Munsees, which is conditionally retained by them. 
 The white settlements will be immediately extended to the new boundaries, and 
 the extinction of the title of the Menomonies to the country still held by them 
 will be a measure necessary to their comfort and quiet. Their ultimate re- 
 moval south of the Missouri may be confidently anticipated. Their connexion 
 with the Winnebagoes suggests the propriety of locating them near to each other, 
 when the removal of both tribes is accomplished. 
 
 It was mentioned in my annual report, that the Ottowas and Chippewas had 
 transmitted a memorial, in which they requested that a negotiation might be- 
 opened with the Chippewas west of Lake Superior and north of Rum river, to 
 obtain from them a part of their country for a permanent home. I enclose a 
 copy of this memorial, (marked A,) that the subject may receive the considera- 
 tion of the committee. These Indians, it would seem, do not contemplate a 
 removal before the exjiiration of the five years In which they are secured in the 
 possession of the reservations provided for them in the treaty of March last. 
 It is desirable, however, that their ultimate destination should be determined 
 upon as early as practicable. If they cannot go west of Lake Superior, they 
 must go to the country south of the Missouri ; and it is questionable whether a 
 suitable tract, of sufiicient extent, can be provided for them there. They are 
 accustomed to subsist upon fish and wild rice, taken and gathered from the 
 numerous lakes and streams in their present country, and of this they would 
 be deprived in the region south of Missouri. The scarcity of timber and game 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 473 
 
 there, Is also a serious objection. If the proposed arrangement could be effected 
 with their brethren, they would probably be willing to emigrate long within 
 me time specified. The measures to be adopted for carrying into effect the 
 stipulations in the late treaty, for farming and mechanical establishments, and 
 for education, would be influenced materially by the action of the Government 
 upon this memorial, and by the result of that action. 
 
 Treaties with the bands of Potawatamles in Indiana, for whom reservations 
 were provided in 1832, are now before the Senate, which stipulate for their 
 removal west of the Mississippi ; and with a part of the Indians in New York, 
 for the same object. If these be ratified, and the negotiations herein indicated' 
 and with the Miamies, prescribed by a resolution of the Senate at its last ses- 
 sion, be successful, there will be, north of the Missouri or east of the Missis- 
 sippi, the Ottawas, Ohippewas, and Potawatamles of Illinois, the Ohippewas 
 of Swan creek and Black river, and the Ohippewas of Saginaw, in Michigan; 
 the Wyandots, in Ohio ; and a portion of the Six Nations in New York and at 
 Green Bay. 
 
 An appropriation will be required to effect the arrangement contemplated by 
 a resolution of the Senate at the last session, by which the assent of the first 
 to take lands south of the Missouri for those north of it, given to them by the 
 treaty of Chicago, may be procured. It is believed they will readily consent 
 to this measure. The second are under treaty stipulations to remove west of 
 the Mississippi, or north of St. Anthony's falls. A treaty will probably be 
 made with the third this winter, and with the others at no distant day. 
 
 I submit a tabular statement, (marked B,) showing the names of the tribes 
 south of the river and west of the State of Missouri, the population of each, the 
 quantity of land assigned to each, the number of acres for each individual, and 
 the tenure by which it is held ; and the same facts in relation to the tribes men- 
 tioned in the resolution. There are, besides, two large tracts in that region 
 yet unoccupied. " The first district of unappropriated lands," (I quote from the 
 report of the commissioners in 1834,) "is between the north line of the Osages, 
 and the lands of the Weas, Shawnees, and Kanzas, and is estimated to contain 
 20,253 square miles, or 12,965,120 acres." " The second district of land, not yet 
 granted to any tribe, is situated north of the country of the Delawares and Kick- 
 apoos, to the sources of the Platte, and containing about 15,625 square miles, or 
 10,000,000 acres." The commissioners suggested suitable locations for all the 
 Indians then east of the Mississippi ; but they embraced in their calculation the 
 lands acquired by the treaty of Prairie du Chien of 1880, containing about 16,120 
 square miles, or 10,312,000 acres. Of these, 500,000 acres, between the State of 
 Missouri and the Missouri river, will be annexted to that State, under a law of 
 the last session, as soon as the title of the Sioux of the Mississippi is relin- 
 quished by them, and the treaties made with the tribes interested in it are 
 ratified. Of the residue, 5,000,000 acres were assigned to the Ottawas, Ohippe- 
 was, and Potawatamles, in 1833; and it is now proposed, as I have stated, to 
 give them lands south in exchange for it. 
 
 The new treaties, if they be ratified, will further diminish the quantity of dis- 
 posable land. Four hundred sections, or 256,000 acres, between the ICickapoo 
 land and the Great Nemahaw, will be required for the loways and Sacs of Mis- 
 souri, and at least 500,000 acres north of the Osages for the New York Indians,, 
 who are to remove from that State and from the vicinity of Green bay. 
 
 I have examined, with some care, the very interesting reports made by Mr. 
 McCoy, the surveyor, in 1831 and 1832, in which he described the general fea- 
 tures and quality of the lands west of the State of Missouri, and between th& 
 Puncah and Red rivers ; but I have not been able to form from them any exact 
 idea of the quantity of good land now at the disposal of the Government. It is 
 stated by Mr. Ellsworth, in a letter addressed to the department on the 13th of 
 May, 1834, that " not more than one-half of the unappropriated lands is suitable 
 for agriculture, on account of the scarcity of timber for fences, firewood, and 
 building." 
 
 The whole quantity of unappropriated lands, as before stated, is 22,965,120- 
 acres ; deducting one-half, there will remain 11,482,560 acres of good land. Of 
 this, 5,500,000 should be set off, in lieu of the lands to be annexed to the State 
 of Missouri, and to be assigned to the Ottawas, Ohippewas, and Potawatamles 
 north of the Missouri river. There will be left 5,982,560 acres. From this is to 
 be deducted 756,000 acres, that will be required for the loways, Sacs of Mis- 
 souri, and New York Indians. There will then be open, for the location of other 
 emigrating tribes, 5,226,560 acres. If one section be allowed for each individual 
 
474 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 of the Sacs and Foxes, Winnebagoes, Menomonees, Potawatamies, and Miamies, 
 of Indiana, and the Wyandots, whose aggregate population is 20,500, there will 
 be required 13,120,000 acres— 7,894,000 acres more than are now held by the 
 Government. To obtain the requisite quantity, negotiations will be necessary 
 with some of the indigenous tribes in that region. The Osages, Otoes and Mis- 
 sourias, Omahas, and Pawnees, have, in all, 30,091,520 acres. Their aggregate 
 number is 18,120. An allotment, to each, of 640 acres, will give them 11,596,800 
 acres, leaving 18,494,720 acres ; of which 7,894,000 acres, the additional quantity 
 required for the tribes to be removed, could, no doubt, be procured. 
 
 I proceed to make some suggestions in regard to the tribes with whom it may 
 be most expedient to negotiate, having reference to their condition and wants, 
 and to the present local position and habits of the Indians to be removed. 
 
 The Sach and Foxes, with a population of 6,000, will require 3,840,000 acres. 
 The Omahas, numbering 1,400, will require 846,600 ; which being deducted from 
 their reservation, will leave 4,044,120 acres. They have settled on the Missouri 
 bottoms, and commenced the cultivation of the soil. It appears desirable to ob- 
 tain from them a part of their lands for the Sacs and Foxes, who live in the 
 same parallel of latitude, and who, by removing, would acquire a fertile country 
 of sufficient extent, with a front on the Missouri river of 78 miles, measured 
 without regard to its meanderings. 
 
 If another cession could be obtained from the Otoes and Missourias, who have 
 also established their villages on the Missouri bottoms, there would be ample 
 space for the Menomonees and Winnebagoes between the Platte river and the 
 northern line of the lands of the Delawares. 
 
 In 1831, Mr. McCoy, after describing the destitute condition of the Kanzas, 
 recommended their location " at and above the junction of the Smoky Hill and 
 Republican rivers, where they would all be induced cheerfully to settle." Some 
 action is urgently demanded, to relieve them from the embarrassments and 
 wants now pressing upon them ; and if the course suggested by Mr. McCoy will 
 accomplish this object, it should be adopted. This would leave the residue of 
 their country open, and to it might be added a part of the Shawnees' lands, 
 who have far more than they can occupy or cultivate. 
 
 These arrangements would enable the Government to propose to the Osages 
 to exchange their lands for others south of their kindred, the Kanzas, and near 
 the Delawares, of which tribe they are " the adopted grandchildren." This was 
 recommended by Mr. McCoy, in 1831, as a measure that " would doubtless pro- 
 mote their interests," after minute observation and inquiry with particular 
 reference to it. In this connexion I beg leave to remind you, that in 1825 
 these Indians ceded to the United States their title to all the lands west of the 
 Missouri and Arkansas, north and west of Red river, and south of the Kanzas 
 river, with the exception of their present reserve, and a few tracts set apart 
 for individuals; and for this extensive cession, the whole amount stipulated to 
 be paid by the United States did not exceed $220,000. At a council held with 
 them by the late Major Armstrong, in 1834, they signed a treaty, by which they 
 exchanged the southern half of their reservation for land east and north of it ; 
 but this treaty was not ratified. Their claim upon the liberality — I might add 
 the justice — of the Government, is manifest and strong. In negotiating with 
 them for their removal to the tract south of the Kanzas Indians, this claim 
 could be recognised, and discharged by liberal provisions for their benefit ; and 
 a country acquired, which, added to the vacant land adjoining, would be ample 
 in extent for the accommodation of the Ottawas, Chippewas,. and Potawatamies, 
 of Illinois, the Potawatamies and Miamies of Indiana, the New York Indians in 
 that State and in Wisconsin Territory, and the Wyandots in Ohio. 
 
 The successful accomplishment of all these measures will relieve the States 
 of their entire Indian population, except the fast disappearing remnants of 
 tribes in some of the older States, and some Chippewas in the northern part of 
 Michigan, on the borders of Lake Superior, and leave in the Territory of Wis- 
 consin none but the Chippewas north and east of the Mississippi, and the Sioux 
 and JIandans north of the Missouri. It will concentrate south and west of the 
 latter, and between the Puncah and Red rivers, all the other tribes; and present 
 for consideration the grave questions of protection and government, which were 
 dwelt upon, at some length, in my annual report. In confirmation of the views 
 then submitted, I beg leave to call your attention to an extract from a report 
 of Mr. JlcCoy, made in March, 1832. 
 
 " The importance of the subject must be my apology for most earnestly recom- 
 mending to your consideration the propriety of bringing together in council, as 
 early as practicable, delegates from every tribe within the Indian territory, in- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 475 
 
 eluding the Pawnees and Omahas. Tlie objects of this meeting would be to 
 explain to them the nature of the relation which, hereafter, they would be re- 
 quired to sustain one to another; to elicit mutual pledges of peace- and to 
 originate measures suited to their present condition, which would lead to the 
 rudiments of a territorial compact and government. Such a meeting I think 
 would be acceptable to every tribe, nor can I feel a doubt of its expediency 
 
 " With great deference, I ask leave to solicit your attention to the subject of 
 creating such a superintendency of Indian affairs, within the Indian territory 
 as, extending to all tribes within it, should lead to establish that union which 
 is essential to their future prosperity. It would be hoped, this superintendency 
 would be adapted to the primary state of society, and with a view to their 
 future organization. 
 
 " By adopting measures to develop to the various tribes the relation which 
 they are to bear to each other, and the prospect of better days, embraced in the 
 scheme of uniting them in one body politic, and constituting them an integral 
 part of the community of the United States, difficulties, in relation to the par- 
 ticular limits of the several tribes, would vanish. Every tribe, possessing more 
 land than its wants would require, and which could not be sold for any thing 
 else, would be happy to have others settle near them. The merchant would 
 desire to multiply his neighbors, to enable him to extend his sales; and the 
 owner of a mill would be pleased with the increase of his customers. 
 
 " The state of society, settling down into a regular territorial government, 
 would, on its arrival at that state, allow of no greater partiality for metes and 
 bounds, of a common character, than is felt in one of our States or Territories 
 for the lines of counties. 
 
 " Could the spirit of uniting them in a territory be instilled into them, I am 
 persuaded that hopes, unknown before, would animate every tribe, and lead to 
 virtue, industry, and enterprise. The better informed, and those in more com- 
 fortable condition, would have the ascendency among their less fortunate 
 brethren; while the latter would profit by the talents and enterprise of the 
 former. Where I have been so happy as to gain the attention of an Indian to 
 this subject, explained, with a map of this country spread before him, it has 
 invariably been the case, from the Ottowa of Lake Michigan to the more re- 
 fined Indian of the south, that his feelings appeared to become enlisted in appro- 
 bation of the plan, and hope seemed to spring up in his soul." 
 
 In a letter, addressed by him to the commissioners of the United States at 
 Fort Gibson, in October, 1832, he made a further suggestion, which seems to 
 merit a favorable consideration : 
 
 " I would respectfully beg leave to recommend to your special consideration," 
 he said, " the reservation of a tract, in the central part of the Territory, for 
 the seat of government." "The upper branches of the Osage river afford a 
 country well adapted to such a purpose: it is central, and it is yet unappro- 
 priated." 
 
 The reports made by this gentleman in 1831 and 1832, which are to be found 
 at pages 561, of vol. 8, and 230 and 446, of vol. 9, of Senate Documents, 1st 
 session 23d Congress, afCord much valuable information respecting the general 
 features, the soil, and the resources of the country south of the Missouri. 
 
 A more accurate knowledge of these is highly desirable, and, indeed, essential 
 to the proper location of the Indians to be removed. I would submit, for con- 
 sideration, the propriety of making an appropriation to meet the expenses of 
 the necessary surveys and examinations. ^,, ^ „ „,,4. „* „ k;ii 
 
 In compliance with the request of Mr. Garland, I enclose the draught of a b. 1 
 (marked O,) giving the requisite authority for accomplishing the objects indi- 
 cated in this communication, accompanied by an estimate (marked D) of the 
 amount that will be required, if they receive the sanction of Congress. 
 
 Verv resoectfuUv, vour obedient servant, . . 
 
 veiy lesyectxui J, j ^ ^ Habris, Commissioner. 
 
 Hon. B. F. BuTLEE, 
 
 Searetary of War ad interim. 
 
 To the Pbesident of the United States : . ^ ^ ^ 
 
 The undersigned, chiefs of the Chippewa and Ottawa tribes who ^tered 
 
 into treaty with the United States on the twenty-eighth of March, eighteen 
 
476 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 hundred and thirty-six, for the sale of a large portion of their lands in Michi- 
 gan, having this day acceded to the amendments made by the Senate to the 
 said treaty, which requires a cession of their reservations at the expiration of 
 five years, respectfully solicit that such aid may be afforded them, as may, at 
 the expiration of said term, enable them to locate themselves among their rela- 
 tions, the Chippewa s west of Lake Superior, and also to remove there at the 
 earliest possible time. 
 
 The Chippewas of that remote northern quarter are separated from us, by 
 an average distance of about nine hundred miles; all of which is, however, 
 occupied by Chippewas. They hold separate government over their respective 
 villages, have separate interests, and are excluded wholly from the benefits 
 of the treaty, as they possessed no part of the land sold. It would be Injustice 
 to them to require or expect that they should assign for our residence a part of 
 their large country on the head waters of the Mississippi, without an adequate 
 compensation for it. Besides which, they are in an impoverished situation, 
 having barely the means of procuring their subsistence by hunting, from year 
 to year. 
 
 The undersigned believe that by removing to that quarter, with our present 
 incipient linowledge of the means by which white men live, and by adopting 
 a system of planting, combined for the present with hunting, and by carrying 
 with us the school, farming, and blacksmithing privileges, which we have pro- 
 vided in the treaty, our situation would become prosperous ; and we thinlj the 
 location would be permanent, and not subject to disturbance from white settlers, 
 because it is not probable that white men will ever desire to live higher north, 
 on the waters of the Mississippi, than the good limestone lands extend. This 
 limit is not quite a day's journey above St. Anthony's falls, where the lands 
 are at first plains, and afterwards greatly intermixed with wet lands and 
 forests of small growth, with dry sand ridges and lakes, which, although un- 
 favorable to dense and compact settlements, would afford the requisite advan- 
 tages for scattered Indian villages and settlements. The small Indian corn can 
 be raised in those latitudes, although the same latitudes in Lake Superior are 
 forbidding to its growth. 
 
 The undersigned, while they acceded to the Government's wishes in regard 
 to a southwestern location, so far as any of their number might be induced to 
 go thither, had nevertheless directed their attention mainly to the sources of 
 the Mississippi; nnd they took into consideration, in selling their lands, the 
 value of such location, and the expense of removal to it. They have no reason 
 to suppose that it was the object of the Senate to deprive them of any advantage 
 the treaty provides for them. 
 
 They beg leave to present the subject fop- your consideration, and to suggest 
 that instructions may be given by the Government to negotiate with the Chip- 
 pewas west of Lake Superior, and north of the mouth of Rum river, on the 
 head waters of the Mississippi, for the purchase of a location for our future 
 permanent residence. 
 
 Signed and witnessed at the agency at Michilimackinac, the 14th day of 
 July, 18.36. 
 
 Hawgayosh, his + mark, 
 and fifty-two others. 
 Witnesses : 
 
 William Johnston, United States Interpreter, 
 
 Feanois Willill Shealman, 
 
 Alfeed Schoolceaft, 
 
 John Clitz, Captain Infantry, 
 
 James W. Penrose, Lieutenant 2d Infantry, 
 
 Robert Stuart, 
 
 William M. Ferry, 
 
 William Mitchell, 
 
 John A. Drew, 
 
 William Johnston, United States Interpreter, 
 
 William Lasley. 
 
 I certify that the above signatures have been affixed in my presence. 
 
 Henry R. Schoolcraft. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 477 
 
 B. 
 
 Statement e.rhihiting the names of the tribes south and west of the Missouri 
 and between the Puneah and Red rivms; the qwantity of land held by eaeh' 
 the population of each; and the number of acres for eaeh indiridual, and the 
 tenure by which the land is held by them, rcspcclivchi; also, the same purtieu- 
 larstn relation to the tnbcs named in the resolution of the House of Reore- 
 sentatives of December 23, '«'"' -h-i^f"- 
 
 Names. 
 
 Choctaws 
 
 Creeks and Seminoles... 
 
 Cherokees 
 
 Senecas and Shawnees. . 
 
 Quapaws 
 
 Weas, Piankeshaws, Pe- 
 orias, & Kaskaskias. 
 
 Ottawas 
 
 Shawnees 
 
 Shawnees 
 
 Delawares 
 
 Kickapoos 
 
 Senecas 
 
 Osages 
 
 Kanzas 
 
 Otoes and Missourias 
 
 OmfOias 
 
 Pawnees 
 
 loways, Sacs, and Foxes. 
 
 Winnebagoes , 
 
 Sionx 
 
 Whole 
 
 number of 
 
 acres. 
 
 15,000,000 
 13,140,000 
 
 13, 800, 000 
 
 100, 000 
 
 96,000 
 
 259, 840 
 
 34, 000 
 
 100, 000 
 
 1,600,000 
 
 2, 208, 000 
 
 768,000 
 
 67, 000 
 
 7, 564, 800 
 
 2, 510, 080 
 
 1,536,000 
 
 4,990,720 
 
 16, 000, 000 
 
 11,000,000 
 
 4,183,040 
 
 1 4, 630, 400 
 
 Popula- 
 tion. 
 
 15,000 
 21,000 
 
 22,000 
 
 211 
 
 476 
 516 
 
 200 
 
 1,272 
 
 826 
 
 588 
 251 
 5,120 
 1,471 
 1,000 
 1,400 
 10,000 
 7,200 
 
 4,500 
 
 27,500 
 
 Number 
 of acres to 
 each indi- 
 vidual. 
 
 1,000 
 
 474 
 201 
 503 
 
 173 
 1,336 
 2,661 
 
 1,307 
 267 
 1,466 
 1,706 
 960 
 3,564 
 1,600 
 1,528 
 
 907 
 
 Tenure. 
 
 Guaranty. 
 do 
 
 -do.. 
 
 .do., 
 -do., 
 -do.. 
 
 ..do 
 
 /Guaranty. 
 
 Ugift 
 
 Guaranty. 
 
 do 
 
 ....do 
 
 Indian title. 
 
 ....do 
 
 ....do 
 
 ....do 
 
 ....do 
 
 ....do 
 
 .do., 
 .do.. 
 
 Remarks. 
 
 Treaty of September 27, 1830. 
 
 Treaties of January 24, 1826, 
 March 24, 1832, and Feb- 
 ruary 14, 1833; Seminoles, 
 May 9, 1832, and March 28, 
 1833. 
 
 Treaties of May 6, 1828, Feb- 
 ruary 14, 1833, and Decem- 
 ber 29, 1835. 
 
 Treaty of July 20, 1831. 
 
 Treaty of May 13, 1833. 
 
 Treaties of 27th and 29th of 
 October, 1832. 
 
 Treaty of August 30, 1831. 
 
 Treaty of August 8, 1831. 
 
 Treaty of November 7, 1825. 
 
 Treaties of October 3, 1818, 
 and September 24, 1829. 
 
 Treaty of October 24, 1832. 
 
 Treaty of February 28, 1831. 
 
 Treaty of June 2, 1826. 
 
 Treaty of June 3, 1825. 
 
 Treaty of September 21, 1833. 
 
 Treaty of October 6, 1^6. 
 
 Treaty of October 9, 1833. 
 
 Treaties of August 19, 1825, 
 and July 15, 1830. 
 
 Treaties of August 19, 1826, 
 and September 21, 1832. 
 
 Treaties of August 19, 1825, 
 and July 15, 1830. 
 
 1 This is theestimated quantity of pine lands on the Mississippi which it is thought expedient to purchase. 
 
 D. 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 
 January 9, 1837. 
 
 In making an estimate of the sums that will be required to accomplish the 
 objects contemplated in my report of this date, the particula r items cannot now 
 be stated. Negotiations will be necessary with fifteen tribes, most of them in 
 remote parts of the country, distant from each other, and of different habits. 
 It is almost impossible to say what numbers of them will be assembled, or to 
 designate the points to which provisions and other articles for their subsistence 
 nud comfort, and for the negotiators on the part of the Government, will have 
 to be transported. Desirous to avoid the delay that would attend the prepara- 
 tion of an approximate estimate, I have thought it best to assume the actual 
 expenditures at the treaties held by Governor Dodge during the last year, as a 
 basis. These amounted, at each treaty, to about four thousand dollars 
 ($4,000) ; the amount required for the fifteen treaties contemplated, will be 
 sixty thousand dollars, ($60,000.) 
 
 For the expenses of the surveys, and examinations of exploring parties, I 
 have, for the same reasons, assumed the actual expenditure for the exploring 
 party under the treaty of Chicago, in 1833. These amounted to six thousand 
 dollars, ($6,000.) Exploring parties will not probably be desired by any of the 
 tribes but the Menomonees, Winnebagoes, Sacs, and Foxes; and for these, at the 
 rate indicated, eighteen thousand dollars ($18,000) will be wanted. 
 
478 IlSlmAiN AJr'fKUii'KlATiUJN lill^lS. 
 
 For the surveys I have assumed the appropriation for that of the lands given 
 to the Cherol^ees by the treaty of December 29. 1S35, embracmg 1,250 square 
 miles which was seven thousand dollars, ($7,000.) The necessary surveys will 
 require a much larger sum. Of the unappropriated lands, containing 25,877 
 square miles it is presumed that four times the above sum, or twenty-eight 
 thousand dollars, ($28,000,) will defray the expenses of all the surveys that 
 can be made during the current year. , ^ -, ^, 
 
 I therefore respectfully suggest, that the sum of one hundred thousand dollars 
 ($100,000) be inserted in the blank in the third section of the bill. 
 
 [Journal of the House of Representatives, 24th Cong., 2d sess., 1836-1837, p. 112, 
 
 Dec. 23, 1836.1 
 
 Resolved, That the Committee on Indian Affairs be instructed to inquire 
 into the expediency of appropriating money for holding treaties with and the 
 purchase of the lands belonging to the Sac and Fox, Sioux, and Winnebago 
 Indians in Wisconsin Territory, and to provide for their removal west of the 
 Mississippi River. 
 
 [Journal of the House of Representatives, 25th Cong., Sd sess., 1838-1839, p. 280. 
 
 Jan. 14, 3 839.1 
 
 Jlr. Coles moved the following resolution, viz : 
 
 "Resolved. That the Secretary of War be directed to communicate to this 
 House a statement showing the number of Indians annually removed from the 
 eastern to the western side of the Mississippi from seventeen hundred find 
 eighty-nine to eighteen hundred and thirty-eight, inclusive, with the quantity 
 of land annually purchased of the Indians, the sums of money annually paid 
 tc the Indians, and the quantity of land granted each year for common schools, 
 roads and canals, colleges and universities, and to the States, public institutions, 
 and individuals during the same period." 
 
 The rule which requires this resolution to lie on the table one day being 
 dispensed with, it was read, considered, and agreed to. 
 
 [House of Representatives, War Department, Document No. 147, Twenty-flfth Congress, 
 
 third session.] 
 
 Indians Removed to West Mississippi From 1789. 
 
 letter from the secretary of war, transmitting the information required 
 by a resolution of the house of representatives of the 14th ultimo, 
 relating to indians removed from the east to the west side of the 
 mississippi, from 1789 to 183s. 
 
 February 5, 1839. Read, and laid upon the table. 
 
 War Department, 
 
 Feirmry Ji, 1839. 
 Sir : I have the honor to transmit, herewith, reports of the Secretary of the 
 Treasury and Commissioner of Indian Affairs, in answer to the resolution of 
 the House of Representatives of the 14th ultimo, requiring a statement of the 
 number of Indians annually removed from the eastern to the western side of 
 the Mississippi, from 17Sr> to 1838, &c. 
 
 Very respectfully, your most obedient servant, 
 
 J. R. Poinsett. 
 Hon. James K. Polk, 
 
 Speaker of the House of Represeniatines. 
 
 Treasury Department, 
 
 January S3, 18S9. 
 Sir: Tour letter of the 17th instant, enclosing a copy of a resolution fron 
 the House of Representatives of the 14th, part of which (calling for a repor 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 479 
 
 of the quantity of land granted in each of Hip stnta^ o„^ m -^ • 
 Dion schools, roads, and canals, &c.ryou in itel my .tten Jrf.^^n^'ii"" 1°' '""'- 
 ceived. The enclosed communication from +>! nJ ^^r'^^^°^ ^°' l^as been re- 
 Land Office furnishes theTformS desSed ^'"^'^''^"'''^' ^t the General 
 I am, respectfully, your obedient servant, 
 
 Levi Woodbury, 
 Joel R. Poinsett, Esq'., Secretary of the Tteasury. 
 
 Secretary of War. 
 
 General Land Office, 
 
 o TT • L January gg, 1839 
 
 Sir: Herewith are transmitted four tabular statements, marked A B C and 
 
 D, which are designed to meet your requisition in relation to so much of the 
 
 resolution of the House of Representatives of 14th instant as you have referrel 
 
 to this office for a report thereon j"u udve leierrea 
 
 T^rLlL,^Sf L^Soirf^X^lficrg'raS^'^ '" ^^^'^ °^ *^^ ^^'^'^ -^ 
 
 insmu\ions?\'nd"in''dmduar°'^''^ "' ^"'^^<^ '^''^ ''^^'^^ '° --P-'-- P""!- 
 C is an exhibit of the quantity of public land which has been actually pat- 
 ented as bounties to the army of the United States 
 
 D is a table exhibiting the dates of the several acts of Congress making grants 
 of the public lands. &&'-=' 
 
 With great respect, your obedient servant, 
 
 Jas. Whitcomb, 
 
 _ _ _^ Com/missioner. 
 
 Hon. Levi Woodbuey, 
 
 Secretary of the Treasury. 
 
 A. 
 
 EwhiUt of the quantity of land granted to each of the Htnies ami TenitoricK. 
 and the piaijones for which (/ranted. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The one 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Aggregate 
 
 thfrty-sixth 
 
 
 
 Granted 
 
 
 Granted 
 
 
 quantity 
 
 part of the 
 
 Total 
 
 
 lor 
 
 
 tor seats 
 
 
 granted to 
 
 lands in 
 
 quantity of 
 
 
 colleges. 
 
 Granted (or 
 
 of gov- 
 
 Granted 
 
 each State 
 
 each State 
 
 land granted 
 
 
 acade- 
 
 roads and 
 
 ernment 
 
 for 
 
 and Terri- 
 
 and Terri- 
 
 to each of 
 
 
 mies. 
 
 canals. 
 
 and 
 
 salines. 
 
 tory, exclu- 
 
 tory is 
 
 the States 
 
 
 and uni- 
 
 
 public 
 
 
 sive of lands 
 
 granted for 
 
 and 
 
 
 versities. 
 
 
 buildings. 
 
 
 for common 
 schools. 
 
 the support 
 
 of common 
 
 schools. 
 
 Territories. 
 
 
 Acres. 
 
 Acres. 
 
 Acres. 
 
 Acres. 
 
 Acres. 
 
 Acres. 
 
 Acres. 
 
 OMo 
 
 69,120 
 46,080 
 46,080 
 46,080 
 
 1,050,287.74 
 4'^4 223 65 
 
 
 23,680 
 23 040 
 
 1,143,087.74 
 505 903 65 
 
 699,823.98 
 568, 260 
 887, 048 
 
 1,842,911.72 
 1,074,163.66 
 1,537,317.68 
 1,212,426 
 
 Tllf1iaTi!\ 
 
 2 560 
 
 Illinois 
 
 480,000 
 
 2,560 
 2,449 
 1,620 
 
 121,629.68 
 46,080 
 23, 040 
 
 650,269.68 
 
 94,609 
 471,220 
 
 47,360 
 
 46,080 
 105,360 
 102,760 
 
 47,200 
 217,280 
 
 Missouri 
 
 1,117,817 
 892,612 
 786, 190 
 
 
 
 1,363,832 
 833. 550 
 
 Mississippi 
 
 46,080 
 46,080 
 46,080 
 46,080 
 46,080 
 46 080 
 
 
 1,280 
 
 
 Louisiana 
 
 
 
 
 567, 709 
 
 864, 399 
 
 874,136 
 
 11,020,995 
 
 1 829, 553 
 
 613,789 
 
 Michigan 
 
 
 13,200 
 
 10,600 
 
 1,120 
 
 46,080 
 46,080 
 
 969,759 
 
 Arkansas 
 
 
 976,896 
 
 Florida 
 
 
 1,068,195 
 
 Wisconsin... 
 
 171,200 
 
 
 1,046,833 
 
 Iowa 
 
 
 
 
 
 1196,745 
 
 196,745 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 530,400 
 
 2,635,711.39 
 
 35,389 
 
 329, 629. 68 
 
 3,431,130.07 
 
 9,305,287.98 
 
 12,736,418.05 
 
 ' The one thirty-sixth part of the public lands in the Territories are not, as yet, granted for the support 
 of schools, but are reserved for that purpose. Those m Florida, under the provisions of the act of March 
 3, 1823, providing for the survey and sale of the public lands in that Territory, and those m Wisconsm and 
 Iowa, under the act of May 20, 1785, entitled "An ordnance for ascertaining the mode of disposmg oflands 
 in the Western territory." 
 
480 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 B. 
 
 ExMhit of the quantity of puhlio land granted to companies, public institutions, 
 
 and individuals. 
 
 Acres. 
 
 Orant to the Ohio Company 100,000 
 
 Grant to A. H. Dohrman for services rendered American prisoners 
 
 during the revolutionary war 20,480 
 
 Gant to the French inhabitants of Galllopolis 25,200 
 
 Grant to the deaf and dumb asylum in Connecticut, a township in 
 
 Alabama 23, 040 
 
 Grant to the deaf and dumb asylum in Kentucky, a township in 
 
 norida 23, 028 
 
 Grant to General Lafayette, a township in Florida 23, 028 
 
 Lands appropriated for religious purposes in the purchases made by 
 
 John Cleves Symmes and the Ohio Company 43, 525 
 
 Total 258, 301 
 
 NoTK. — It is understood that the resolution refers to donations of a general 
 •character; donations of small tracts to individuals are not embraced in this 
 statement. 
 
 O. 
 
 ExhiMt of the quantity of puilic land which has been actually patented as 
 bounties to the army of the United States. 
 
 Acres. 
 For military services during the revolutionary war on warrants 
 issued from the War Department, there have been patented in the 
 
 State of Ohio 1,365,535 
 
 For military services during the late war with Great Britain, there 
 have been patented in — 
 
 Illinois 2, 831, 840 
 
 Missouri 473^ 120 
 
 Arkansas 1, 091, 360 
 
 4, 396, 320 
 
 lor military services rendered by Canadian volunteers during the 
 
 late war, there have been patented in Indiana 68, 760 
 
 And under special acts of Congress, in Michigan 480 
 
 Total 5_ 831, 095 
 
 D. 
 
 Exhibiting the dates of the several acts of Congress making grants of the public 
 
 lands. 
 
 Purposes of the grant. 
 
 Ohio. 
 
 Indiana. 
 
 Illinois. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Colleges, academies, and universities 
 
 Tlnatis ar^d rfl.nfl.lfl 
 
 July 23, 1787, & 
 May 6, 1792. 
 
 March 3, 1807, 
 Feb'ry 28, 1823, 
 March 2, 1827, 
 May 21, 1828. 
 
 March 26, 1804, & 
 
 April 10, 1816. 
 March 2, 1827. 
 
 Aprill0,1816 
 
 April 10, 1816 
 
 Aprmo,1816 
 
 March 26, 1804, Si 
 
 April 18, 1818. 
 March 2, 1827. 
 
 March 3, 1819. 
 April 18, 1818. 
 
 April 18, 1818. 
 
 Seats of goTemment and public buUdinKS 
 
 Salines 
 
 April 30, 1802, & 
 Mar. 3, 1803. 
 
 April 30, 1802, & 
 Mar. 3, 1803. 
 
 The one thirty-sixth part of the public lands 
 for the support of common schools. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 481 
 
 Exhihiting Vic dates of the acrentl nrtx of Congrex.t making grants of the puhlir 
 
 lands — Continued. 
 
 Purposes of the grant. 
 
 Missouri. 
 
 Alabama. 
 
 Mississippi. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Colleges, academies, and universities 
 
 Feb. 17, 1818, & 
 March 6, 1820. 
 
 April 20, 1818, 
 March 2, 1819, & 
 May 24, 1828. 
 
 May 23, 1828 
 
 March 2, 1819 
 
 March 2, 1819 
 
 March 2, 1819, & 
 July 4, 1836. 
 
 March 3. 1803, & 
 Feb. 20, 1819. 
 
 Seats of government and public buildings . . 
 
 March 6, 1820 
 
 March 6, 1820 
 
 March 6, 1820 
 
 Feb. 20, 1819. 
 
 The one thirty-sixth part of the public lands 
 for the support of common schools. 
 
 March 3, 1803, & 
 July 4, 1806. 
 
 Purposes of the grant. 
 
 Louisiana. 
 
 Michigan. 
 
 Arkansas. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Colleges, academies, and universities 
 
 Seats of government and public buildings . . 
 
 March 3, 1827 
 
 May 20, 1826 
 
 June 23, 1836 
 
 June 23, 1836 
 
 June 23, 1836 
 
 Feb. 17, 1818, & 
 
 June 23, 1836. 
 June 15, 1832, & 
 
 Salines 
 
 
 June 23, 1836. 
 June 23, 1836. 
 
 The one thirty-sixth part of the public lands 
 for the support of common schools. 
 
 April 21, 1806 
 
 June 23, 1836. . 
 
 
 Florida. 
 
 Wisconsin. 
 
 Iowa. 
 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Date of act. 
 
 Colleges, academies, and imiversitiea 
 
 Jan. 29,1827 
 
 June 12, 1838 
 
 June 18, 1838 
 
 
 Seats of government and public buildings . . 
 The one thirty-sixth part of the public lands 
 lor the support of common schools. 
 
 May 24, 1824 
 
 
 March 3, 1823 
 
 May 20, 1785 
 
 May 20, 178S. 
 
 Grants to conupames, public institutions, and individuals. 
 
 To the Ohio Company, per act of April 21, 1792. 
 To A. H. Dohrman, per act of October 1, 1787. 
 To the French inhabitants of Galliopolis, per act of March 3, 1795. 
 To the Deaf and Dumb Asylum in Connecticut, per act of March 3, 1819. 
 To the Deaf and Dumb Asylum in Kentucky, per act of April 5, 1826. 
 To General Lafayette, per act of December 28, 1824. 
 
 For religious purposes, in the purchases made by John Cleves Symmes and 
 the Ohio Company, per acts of July 23, 1787, and May 5, 1792. 
 
 Wab Department, Office Indian Affairs, 
 
 February 2, 1839. 
 
 Sib: In obedience to your direction, I have the honor to report on the resolu- 
 tion of the House of Representatives of the 14th instant, calling for information 
 respecting the number of Indians removed from the east to the west side of 
 the Mississippi, the quantity of land purchased of the various tribes, and the 
 amount paid therefor in each year, from 1789 to 1838. 
 
 The first legal provision for an exchange of lands with the Indians, and for 
 their removal and settlement beyond the Mississippi '^ ''?°*'''^!i 'Ln rnprrr 
 section of the act of March 26th, 1804, " erecting Louisiana into two Terri- 
 tories and providing for the temporary government thereof." This act appio- 
 prialldTl5,0W to enable the President to effect these object The earliest mti- 
 mation of this policy may be found in a confidential message of the President 
 to both Houses ofConS, dated January 18th 1803. The compact made with 
 Georgia, the year previous, does not allude to ^t- The inducements to the 
 passage of the act of 1804, are stated in two reports from the Committee on 
 
 82833—15- 
 
 -31 
 
482 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Public Lands in the Senate, of January 9tli, 1S17, and December 1st, 1818. 
 Under its authority the President, in January, 1809, assured the chiefs of the 
 lower Cherokee towns, that when they had found a suitable tract on the waters 
 of the Arkansas and White rivers, the United States would arrange an exchange 
 of that for a just portion of the country they left, and aid them in their removal." 
 In the preamble to the treaty with this tribe, of July 8th, 1817, this assurance of 
 the Executive is recited, with the result of the exploration of the chiefs; and 
 stipulations are agreed upon for the exchange of lands, and the removal of 
 those who might be willing to go. It appears from a report from the Depart- 
 ment of War, of March 29th, 1824, that, under the sanction of the above promise, 
 emigration continued from the Cherokee nation, in small parties, to the Arkan- 
 sas, until 1817. Ajid it is stated in the report of December 1st, 1818, that for 
 several years past the Choctaws had gradually emigrated to the West, and 
 formed considerable settlements. At earlier periods parties of the Shawnees, 
 Delawares, and Kickapoos established themselves in the vicinity of Cape 
 Girardeau ; and wandering bands from the southern tribes emigrated to what is 
 now known as a part of Texas. These emigrations being voluntary, and not 
 authorized by laws or treaties, no accurate account of the numbers in each 
 year, or even in the aggregate, can be furnished. Nor does it appear that any 
 registers of the emigrants under the treaties with the Oherokees of 1817 and 
 1819 have been preserved. Their number in 1820 has been estimated at 3,000, 
 and it remained stationary until 1828, when a new treaty was concluded. This 
 review of the past has been taken to explain why (although the policy of 
 exchange and removal originated with the act of 1804, and that act was con- 
 sidered by Congress as in force in 1818, if not at a later period) no precise 
 answers can be given to the call in the resolution before me for the first thirty- 
 eight years embraced by it. In the tabular statement A, herewith submitted, 
 the estimated number of emigrants prior to 1828, and inclusive, is inserted oppo- 
 site that year ; and the number for each successive year, ascertained from more 
 authentic data, is placed against it. The aggregate is 81,282. 
 
 Tabular statement B shows the quantity of land annually purchased of the 
 Indians, and the amount stipulated to be paid therefor. In the first there is 
 necessarily imperfection. In many of the earlier treaties the lines of the 
 cessions are so vaguely described, there are so many references from the lines 
 of one to those of another, so many ancient landmarks are noted of which the 
 memory is now lost, and so great was the inaccuracy of the earlier surveys, 
 that an approximation to exactness in stating the entire quantity of land bought 
 is all that can be expected. The amount paid includes not only money, eo 
 nomine, but all that the United States agreed to give for the lands ceded in 
 each year, whether in the support of teachers, farmers, and artisans, or in 
 reservations. The aggregate number of acres purchased of the Indians from 
 1789 to 1838 is 419,429,446. The aggregate amount of the consideration paid, 
 and stipulated to be paid therefore, is $81,672,824.81. 
 Very respectfully, your most obedient servant, 
 
 T. Hartley Crawfoed. 
 
 Hon. Joel K. Poinsett, 
 
 Secretary of War. 
 
 A. 
 
 Statement showing the numher of Indians annually removed from the eastern 
 to the western side of the Mississippi, from 1789 to 1838, inclusive. 
 
 Years. 
 
 Number 
 removed. 
 
 From 1789 to 1828 .... 
 
 None. 
 
 In 1828 
 
 7,422 
 
 From 1828 to 1831. ... 
 
 None. 
 
 Inl831 
 
 5,407 
 
 In 1832 
 
 5,500 
 
 In 1833 
 
 5,462 
 
 In 1834 
 
 4,386 
 
 In 1836 
 
 2,330 
 
 In 1836 
 
 15,948 
 
 In 1837 
 
 9,688 
 
 In 1838 
 
 25,139 
 
 
 
 
 
 81,282 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 483 
 
 B. 
 
 Siatcnioit of hinds piircliascd from IniUaii trihes in each year from 1789 to 
 183S. inclusive, icith the amounts stipuUitcd to be paid therefor. 
 
 Year. 
 
 \eres acquired. 
 
 Consideration, 
 in nionev or in 
 
 lands,' ex- 
 changed or re- 
 served at $1.25 
 per acre. 
 
 Year. 
 
 Acres acquired. 
 
 Consideration, 
 in money or in 
 
 lands, ex- 
 changed or re- 
 served at $1.25 
 
 per acre. 
 
 1795 
 
 11.808,499 
 2,641,920 
 853, 760 
 10,950.260 
 11,841,920 
 9,167,360 
 1,209,600 
 7, 862, 400 
 50,269,440 
 3, 395, 840 
 14,284,800 
 2,814.080 
 4,807,680 
 51,925,120 
 8.060. 800 
 4,510,240 
 6,500,000 
 Amount un- 
 known. 
 
 $210,000.00 
 ^ 2, 201. 00 
 
 16. 000. 00 
 
 26,234.50 
 155, 600. 00 
 
 44.000.00 
 100,400.00 
 
 60,000.00 
 
 20,700.00 
 120.000.00 
 
 77,000.00 
 561, 830. 13 
 482.600.00 
 
 67.000.00 
 
 6,000.00 
 
 150,000.00 
 
 106,000.00 
 
 1824 
 
 11.000,000 
 
 85,699,680 
 4, 132, 480 
 1,337,780 
 1,285,120 
 990,720 
 6, 695, 760 
 
 24,092,000 
 8,326,397 
 
 19, 122, 280 
 4,128,640 
 5,113,920 
 
 22, 662, 720 
 4,698,240 
 
 18,250,000 
 
 J79, 900. OO 
 
 1801 
 
 1826 
 
 2,451,400.00 
 
 1802 - - 
 
 1826 
 
 6,938,000.00 
 
 
 1827 
 
 533,748.18 
 
 1804 
 
 1828 
 
 63, 741. 00 
 
 
 1829 
 
 189, 795. 00 
 
 1806 
 
 1830 
 
 1,143,401.00 
 
 1807 
 
 1831 
 
 23, 409, 661. 00 
 
 1808 
 
 1832 
 
 16,440,767.00 
 
 1809 
 
 1833 
 
 6,968,187.00 
 
 
 1834 
 
 649,576.00 
 
 1816 
 
 1835 
 
 7,631,649.00 
 
 
 1836 
 
 9,257,646.00 
 
 1818 
 
 1837 
 
 1,082,988.00 
 
 1819 
 
 1838 
 
 3,738,000.00 
 
 
 
 1821 
 
 1823 
 
 419,429,446 
 
 81,672,824.81 
 
 [Mar. 3, 1S.39. No. 1729a.] 
 
 AN ACT Making appropriations for the current and contingent expenses of the Indian 
 Department, and for fulfilling treaty stipulations with the various Indian tribes, for 
 the year one thousand eight hundred and thirty-nine. 
 
 [U. S. Stat. L., vol. 5, p. 323.] 
 
 Sec 2 And be it further enacted, That ttie second section of an act passed 
 the twenty-eighth day of May, eighteen hundred and thirty, entitled ".In act to 
 provide for an exchange of lands with the Indian tribes residing within any ot 
 the States or Territories and for their removal west of the river Mississippi, be, 
 and the same is hereby, repealed. 
 
 GENERAL INDIAN EMIGKATION. 
 
 House Executive Document No. 171, Twenty-second Congress, first session, 
 volume 4 91 naees, March 12, 1832. 
 Ke ExecXe Document No. 116, Twenty-seccmd Congress, first session, 
 
 ^°Ste'DL=i N^S^^^T^eS-mrd Congress, first session, volumes T to 
 
 ''in^n^rsol^^ar. 'Ws^y of events resulting in Indian cons^Udatiou 
 
 si^clfl^sSirKeffi^'^r^^f ^ta^^^^^^^^ 
 
 S idea of teZ-a .-IJnsi^cces^ attempts to effect removal du'^^S ^^'ef^f ^ 
 Jefferson's admlnistrations.-War of 1S12 and I'l'^V^" ,f^"l,-f 'f°fm'^820 
 Indian removal from 1815 to 1820.-The North and Indian '■^o^^Y™^/^^^ 
 to 1825.-The South and Indian removal from l^^ t° l^^S-IT^.J^es'^'*'''"' ^ 
 Indian removal.-Removal bill and its more immediate consequences. 
 
 CHEROKEE REMOVALS. 
 
 Senate Document No. 403, Twenty-fourth Congress, first session; June 16, 
 
 1836; 376 pages; volume 5. rnn.rrp<5<! second session; June 8, 
 
 Executive Document No. 82, Twenty-fifth Congress, secona sesbiuu, 
 
 1838; 13 pages; volume 5. rp„,„ntv-flfth Congress, second session; May 21, 
 
 Executive Document No. 3it>. i^^enty niiu <.i>ii,,ic , 
 
 1838 ; 4 pages ; volume 10. 
 
484 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Executive Document No. 452, Twenty-fifth Congress, second session ; July 3, 
 1838 ; 26 pages ; volume 11, part 1. 
 
 House Document No. 129, Twenty-sixth Congress, first session ; February 28, 
 1840 ; 117 pages ; volume 3. 
 
 House Report No. 1098, Twenty-seventh Congress, second session ; August 27, 
 1842 ; 100 pages ; volume 5. 
 
 House Keport No. 288, Twenty-seventh Congress, third session; March 2, 
 1843 ; 70 pages ; volume 4. 
 
 House Report No. 683, Twenty-ninth Congress, first session; June 2, 1846; 
 6 pages ; volume 3. 
 
 Senate Document No. 121, Twenty-fifth Congress, second session ; January 
 22, 1838; 43 pages; volume 2. 
 
 Senate Document No. 125, Twenty-fifth Congress, second session ; January 23, 
 1838 ; 19 pages ; volume 2. 
 
 House Report No. 960, Twenty-seventh Congress, second session; July 29, 
 1842 ; 5 pages ; volume 5. 
 
 House Report No. 271, Twenty-seventh Congress, third Session ; February 25, 
 1843 ; 229 pages ; volume 3. 
 
 CREEK EMIGRATION. 
 
 House Executive Document No. 44, Twentieth Congress, first session ; January 
 7, 1828 ; 11 pages ; volume 2. 
 
 House Executive Document No. 102, Twenty-second Congress, first session; 
 January 24, 1832 ; 5 pages ; volume 3. 
 
 Executive Document No. 268, Twenty-fourth Congress, first session ; May 31, 
 1836 ; 3 pages ; volume 6. 
 
 CHICKASAW EMIGRATION. 
 
 House Report No. 454, Twenty-seventh Congress, second session; March 17, 
 1842 ; 12 pages ; volume 2. 
 
 CHOCTAW EMIGRATION. 
 
 House Document No. 137, Twenty-eighth Congress, first session; January 8, 
 1844 ; 6 pages ; volume 4. 
 
 House Document No. 107, Twenty-eighth Congress, second session; January 
 21, 1845 ; 26 pages ; volume 3. 
 
 Senate Document No. 86, Twenty-eighth Congress, second session; February 
 e, 1845 ; 53 pages ; volume 3. 
 
 SEMINOLE EMIGRATION. 
 
 House Document No. 247, Twenty-seventh Congress, second session ; June 3, 
 1842 ; 15 pages ; volume S. 
 
 House Document No. 82, Twenty-eighth Congress, first session; January 26, 
 1844 ; 11 pages ; volume 4. 
 
 House Document No. 253, Twenty-eighth Congress, first session ; May 8, 1844 ; 
 10 pages; volume 6. 
 
 Senate Executive Document No. 49, Thirty-first Congress, first session; May 
 21, 1850; 173 pages; volume 13. 
 
 CHIPPEWA EMIGRATION. 
 
 Senate Document No. 155, Twenty-fifth Congress, third session; January 28, 
 1839 ; 3 pages ; volume 3. 
 
 MIAMI EMIGRATION. 
 
 Senate Document No. 148, Twenty-ninth Congress, first session ; February 17, 
 1846 ; 1 page ; volume 4. 
 
 House Document No. 142, Twenty-ninth Congress, first session ; February 25, 
 1846; 6 pages; volume 5. 
 
 MTJNSEE AND STOCKBRIDGE EMIGRATION. 
 
 Senate Document No. 42, Twenty-sixth Congress, first session; January 3, 
 1840; 3 pages; volume 2. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 4 {^5 
 
 NEW TOEK INDIANS' EMIGRATION. 
 
 House Document No. 99, Twenty-seventh Congress, third session: December 
 28, 1842; 11 pages; volume 3. 
 
 EMIGRATION SAC AND FOX, SIOUX, AND WINNEBAGO INDIANS. 
 
 Executive Document No. 82, Twenty-fourth Congress, second session • Januarv 
 9, 1837; 12 pages; volume 3. 
 
 Senator Page. What is the purpose of this? 
 
 Senator Clapp. The purpose is that we may have it in permanent 
 form, in a printed record in one group of acts and proclamations 
 regarding these removals, beginning with Jefferson's early proclama- 
 tion. I think it would be a very good thing to have it printed so 
 that it may be in permanent and brief form instead of making it a 
 Senate document. 
 
 3IISCELLANE0US. 
 
 The Chairman. 'Senators, we have the following items remaining 
 for consideration: The question as to compensation to the Board of 
 Indian Commissioners; pro rata distribution payment to Choctaws 
 and Chickasaws; the Kendall College; the amendment submitted to 
 Senator Gronna which was read this morning; and the sectarian 
 school. 
 
 Senator Clapp. What did you do with the proposition that was 
 discussed here for two days, offered by the department, making the 
 lands of the Creeks that may be hereafter recovered communal 
 property ? 
 
 The Chairman. The one on which Mr. Mott was heard? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 The Chairman. That has already been adopted. 
 
 EXECUTION OF DEEDS AND OTHER INSTRUMENTS BT INDXANS. 
 
 Senator Thompson. I would like also to ask what became of the 
 matter that was referred to a subcommittee of which Senator Lane 
 was chairman and Senator La Follette was a member, referred to 
 on page 97 of the hearings. It was an amendment proposed by the 
 department to section 5. 
 
 The Chairman. The department withdrew that. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We withdrew it because there was objection made. 
 We would like very much to have that legislation if we could get it. 
 It is important legislation. , u- u j t 
 
 Senator Thompson. It simply makes it apply to a half -breed In- 
 dian as well as a white man where he takes advantage ot an Indian. 
 Senator La Follette was on that committee. 
 
 Senator La Follette. The committee has not been convened. 1 
 understood that the amendment had been withdrawn. ,. ^„^ 
 
 Senator Thompson. Senator Lane was chairman. We can discuss 
 it and decide it in a very few minutes. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I will be glad to take it up at once 
 
 Senator Thompson. Mr. Meritt stated in a general way the object 
 they had in view, and I think the amendment accomplishes it. 
 
486 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chaieman. I will read that section: 
 
 That section five of the act approved Jime twenty-fifth, nineteen hundred and 
 ten (Thirty-sixth Statutes at Large, page eight hundred and fifty-seven), be, 
 and the same is hereby, amended so' as to read : 
 
 " Sec. 5. That it shall be unlawful for any person to induce any Indian to 
 execute any contract, deed, mortgage, lease, or other instrument touching land 
 held under a trust or other patent containing restrictions on alienation, or to 
 procure the execution by any Indian of any such instrument, or to be a party 
 with any Indian to any such contract, deed, mortgage, lease, or other Instru- 
 ment, or to offer any such contract, deed, mortgage, lease, or other instrument 
 as aforesaid for record; any any person violating this provision shall be deemed 
 guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine not 
 exceeding $500 for the first offense, and if convicted for a second ofCense may be 
 punished by a fine not exceeding $500, or imprisoned not exceeding one year, or 
 by both such tine and imprisonment in the discretion of the court. 
 
 Senator Page. How does that change the present law, Senator 
 Thompson ? 
 
 The Chairman. You will remember that we had some discussion 
 and one Senator asked the meaning of this language, " That it shall 
 be unlawful for any person to induce any Indian," etc. He wanted 
 to know the meaning of the word " induce." 
 
 Mr. MBRrrx. May I read the justification of the office in that con- 
 nection? It is found in the House hearings on page 98, as follows: 
 
 The law as it now stands makes it unlawful for any person to induce an 
 Indian to execute any contract purporting to convey any land or interest therein 
 held in trust by the United States or to offer such contract for record, and im- 
 poses a penalty for violation of the law. 
 
 This law should be broadened so as to include personal property issued to 
 Indians by the United States or property purchased with trust funds, and the 
 penalty of the law should fall upon the Indians as well as the other party. 
 
 Cases are of record In which an Indian allottee, or the heirs of an allottee, 
 have induced ignorant persons to part with money or other property of value 
 In exchange for a mortgage or deed on an allotment held in trust, when the 
 allottee or the heirs, as the case might be, knew at the time that the instrument 
 was of no value and that nothing could be recovered under it. The Indians 
 as a rule are sufliciently advanced to know that they should not engage in such 
 fraudulent transactions, and they should be made to pay the penalty when they 
 knowingly defraud others by their misrepresentations with respect to property 
 held in trust. 
 
 There is also need for a law regulating the disposal of stock and other per- 
 sonal property issued to Indians by the United States or purchased for them 
 with trust funds. Large sums of money are annually spent by the Governihent 
 in the education of Indians and in equipping them with goods, supplies, and 
 live stock that they may engage in agricultural pursuits and eventually. attain 
 self-support, but the Government has found it impracticable to prevent the 
 Indians from disposing of this property among themselves. 
 
 Very often unscrupulous white men will purchase personal property of this 
 class from an Indian for an insufficient sum, or will loan money and take a 
 chattel mortgage on the property, and then take the property in possession for 
 failure on the part of the Indian to pay the mortgage when due. This necessi- 
 tates action by the Department of Justice to recover the property, and its 
 efforts have not always been successful, as the mortgages have at times dis- 
 posed of the property and they themselves are financially irresponsible. 
 
 Experience has seemed to indicate that some persons make a practice of 
 acquiring this class of property from Indians, probnbly realizing sufficient from 
 the transactions which are not discovered by the Government officials to more 
 than offset the cases which are discovered and in which the property is re- 
 claimed. If it were a misdemeanor for both the Indian and white man to 
 engage in transactions of this kind, and an example were made in a few cases 
 of the guilty person, the time would soon come when these fraudulent dealings 
 would cease almost entirely. 
 
 The legislation is simply to extend and broaden the scope of sec- 
 tion 5 of the act of June 25, 1910, which now applies to real estate. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 487 
 
 We want to prevent the Indians from being defrauded out of their 
 personal property by white people as well as by mixed-blood Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. What is the objection urged to this? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is no objection that I know of, except that this 
 legislation is subject to a point of order. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Senator Lane, you were on that committee? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; I was on that committee. I do not know 
 just how far it reached— whether it would be a restriction which 
 could be arbitrarily imposed upon the Indians by the superinendents 
 from motives which were not for the best interests of the Indians. 
 There are such cases oh record where they have interfered with the 
 Indians to their detriment, and I do not know how far it might be 
 used in a tyrannical manner o\'er the Indians, and I had my doubts of 
 it, and I do have yet. In fact, I have had it looked up by a friend 
 of mine who is closely connected with the Indians and he has handed 
 me a little paper on it, a small brief. He seemes to think that the 
 Indian officials of the department should be included in the restric- 
 tions. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They would be by the terms of the law. 
 
 The Chairman. "Any person " — that is the language. 
 
 Senator Thompson. This extends to persons as well as to real 
 estate. , 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This legislation is exceedingly important now, in view 
 of the fact that we are expending large amounts for cattle. 
 
 Senator Lane. I was on that reservation a little while back and 
 some of the Indians made complaint — I told them to swear to them 
 and send them in — that employees and officials had aided other par- 
 ties in getting possession of their lands. The Indians, it seems, had 
 suffered seriously and had lost their property; it had gone into the 
 hands of irresponsible white men. I think that charge was after- 
 wards made of one of the superintendents in an entirely different trans- 
 action, and I think he was suspended. A number of Indians made 
 that charge ; that they were defrauded by various officials ; that they 
 had assented to it and allowed them to be practiced upon. The con- 
 dition was due more to careless management on the part of the Govern- 
 ment officials in their supervision over the Indians. If the interest 
 was taken in their affairs that should be taken by a careful guardian, 
 these things would not happen. In fact, I found many homes of 
 Indians that had not been visited by superintendents even to inquire 
 how they were getting along and to say " good morning " to them, 
 or anything else. The condition of those Indians is bad, but no effort 
 Avas being made to improve them to to show them or to teach them or 
 help them as a good guardian should do. Of course, the condition of 
 their property rights is of less importance to them than their imme- 
 diate necessities, whether they were going to live at all or not, and it 
 seems to me it is pretty largely due to general lack of close super- 
 vision over the affairs of the Indians by the very men appointed to 
 attend to that work; that we were stopping the leak at the spigot 
 and wasting at the bung. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That statement. Senator, of course, applies, as i 
 understandit, to the Blackfeet Reservation? ^ . .u 
 
 Senator Lane. I think it applies pretty generally to most of the 
 reservations. There was a man here yesterday who gave testimony 
 
488 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 for two hours, I think it was, showing that he himself, with the 
 knowledge of the superintendent of the reservation, was loaning 
 money to Indians for 40 per cent per annum, and taking the interest 
 out in advance, and that he, through the tenderness of his conscience, 
 was not taking as much from them for interest as others were. That 
 was done with the knowledge of the Indian Department. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Did you say that statement was made_ before 
 the committee yesterday? 
 
 Senator Lane. It was made before the ]oint commission, with 
 respect to one of the large reservations where there are lots of In- 
 dians, and that that has been known to the department, at least to 
 their representative, for years. 
 
 Senator La Follettb. Who was that agent? 
 
 Senator Lane. It was down in Oklahoma. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It was the Osage Agency. 
 
 Senator La Foli^tte. What is the name of the man? 
 
 Senator Lane. His name is Carroll, I think. That condition has 
 gone on there with the knowledge of this department and here the 
 department comes in and asks this committee to pass a law so that 
 the Indian may not perchance get swindled out of a plow when it is 
 allowing him to be skinned out of hundreds of thousands of dollars 
 in the aggregate, with their knowledge. It does not seem to me to 
 be in good faith. I have not much confidence in it. I am tired of it. 
 It seems as though at this time the department is defending this 
 superintendent and using its effort to keep him from being put out 
 or brought to book for it. That is the allegation. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Did the joint commission complete its testi- 
 mony in that case? 
 
 Senator Lane. Why, yes; to the extent that this broker 
 
 Senator La Follette. Has that joint commission made any re- 
 port? 
 
 Senator Lane. No ; that came in yesterday. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do not mean in that case particularly, but 
 has.it made any report on any of the cases? 
 
 Senator Lane. Not any as yet. 
 
 Senator La Foij^ette. You have been taking testimony for how 
 long? 
 
 Senator Lane. For a year and a half ; but, you see, we have had a 
 continuous session of the Senate so that we have not completed our 
 work. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You have completed a good many of the 
 subjects on which you have taken testimony, I suppose? 
 
 Senator Lane. I think not, on any of them particularly. It comes 
 in from everywhere, so much so that it drowns the commission out. 
 We have filed a number of reports in cases: we have made a large 
 number of reports but have not made any final resume. But we have 
 had complaints concerning this condition and the apparently indis- 
 putable evidence that the complaints were true in many cases and 
 the department has got busy and remedied local conditions here and 
 there. It is not a safe proposition for an Indian to make a complaint 
 against this department. He seems to be tabooed and searched down 
 and blacklisted, and things happen to him which are not pleasant 
 for him, and it is difficult to get them to make complaint. That of 
 yesterday was made on the statement of a man who himself was en- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 489 
 
 gaged in the business, who was a banker and had formed a private 
 company with anotlier banker and entered into the brolserage busi- 
 ness with the full knowledge and consent, apparently, of the de- 
 partment. 
 
 Senator La Follette. We have legislation against the loan-shark 
 business in the District of Columbia for the protection of residents 
 of this District. It seems to me that if you have a complaint against 
 an agent of any Indian reservation, where he is engaged in sanction- 
 ing or leading of these Indians through loan-shark operations, that 
 it would make a case for very prompt action on the part of the 
 department if it is reported to the department. 
 
 Senator Lane. That has been going on now for two years in this 
 particular case and with the knowledge of the department through 
 its superintendents. This man had been loaning money contrary to 
 the laws of the State — that is against the law, that usury. He had 
 also been loaning money on notes which were not signed by the 
 Indians but signed by a member of his firm — forged notes which 
 were said to have been afterwards acknowledged by the parties in 
 debt to have been just debts, but they did not sign their names; 
 the sharks signed it. So little assertions like that do not appeal to 
 me. The whole thing ought to be changed. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It would seem to me that we might do a 
 good thing by adopting this amendment. It will not cure all the 
 evil everywhere, but it might protect the Indians against losing their 
 personal property, and so much personal property is now being 
 purchased and put upon the reservations to stock the reservations 
 that I should think it would be desirable to throw around the Indians 
 every protection we can against their losing their property. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is right if it does not put the Indian in a 
 position where he can do something useful by having a veto put 
 on him by some arbitrary gentleman who is over him. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Of course that side of it should be con- 
 sidered also, but we have got to trust the department to administer 
 the laws over these Indians. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There is nothing in this legislation, Mr. Chairman, 
 that will give the superintendent greater power over the Indian. 
 It will simply enable the department to prevent the Indian from 
 being defrauded out of personal property that is advanced to him in 
 order to enable that Indian to become self-supporting. As it is now 
 a mixed-blood Indian — any shrewd mixed-blood Indian — can go on 
 the reservation and he can acquire the property of the full bloods 
 at a very small figure, then turn around and sell that property to a 
 white man, operating through the mixed-blood Indian, and it is for 
 the purpose of protecting the full bloods we are asking for this 
 legislation. 
 
 Senator Clapp. We have got a provision here which strikes me as 
 not necessary, and which might, if anybody were disposed to take 
 advantage o'if it, work a good deal of injustice, at least putting 
 people to a defense, and that is, " or who shall offer for record any 
 instrument." A person might be absolutely innocent of wrong inten- 
 tion in the transaction. 
 
 Senator Thompson. What is that clause? 
 
490 INDIAN APPKOPEIAOION BILL. 
 
 Senator Clapp. " Or who shall offer for record any instrument, 
 evidence," etc. A man might be asked to take an instrument to 
 record who might have no part in the transaction, and the instrument 
 itself is void, and it might work an injustice, if somebody were in- 
 clined to take advantage of it in a petty way. , „ ^ . 
 
 The Chairman. You might insert the words : Who shall otter tor 
 record knowing the same to be fraudulent." 
 
 Senator Clapp. In violation of this? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes; something like that. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We do not want to do anybody an injustice and we 
 should like to have it amended. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes; simply put it in through an abundance of 
 caution. I am not criticizing the department. 
 
 The Chairman. We could let the subcommittee that is appointed 
 already consider this. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do not see why we can not dispose of it 
 right now, if that is the only objection to it. If Senator Lane would 
 like a meeting of the subcommittee to consider the provisions of this 
 amendment. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not see. Senator Lane, how this would meet 
 the situation you have described; I do not see how it would make it 
 any worse or enlarge any rights to permit several instances or to 
 restrict them, and it seems to me 
 
 Senator La Follette. It seems to me that it would apply to the 
 agent as well as to anybody else if he were guilty of any wrongdoing 
 such as described in this amendment. 
 
 Senator Lane. I ask my friend Sloan here to check it out for me 
 from his larger information. Do you want to say something about 
 it, briefly, Mr. Sloan ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. This circumstance is known to me by reports and 
 somewhat by direct information. For instance, a mixed blood may 
 buy cattle from a full blood, but with consent of the farmer in charge. 
 Now, then, I know there have been frauds perpetrated in that way, 
 but the frauds had their inception through the officer who had the 
 approval of those sales, and in some instances the mixed blood has 
 been used as a means through which the official and the trader have 
 robbed the full bloods of their cattle, and it has been going on for 
 years, and I feel that if the Indian is to be mentioned as a person or 
 as a class who are to be prosecuted for those wrongs that the Indian 
 official or service official should be included in the same way, so they 
 might come clearly within the law. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Is there any question as to what is included ? 
 
 Senatof La Follette. That suggests to my mind an amendment 
 that might be made. I would be in favor of imposing a severe pen- 
 alty upon the guardian if he is connected with any of this nefarious 
 business, and I will ask to have this laid aside for the morning, and 
 we will see what can be worked out in that respect. 
 
 The Chairman. Let your subcommittee work it out? 
 
 Senator Lane. We will. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think the strongest penalty should be enforced. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not question that at all. 
 
 The Chairman. Let the subcommittee sit, then, and consider it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. May I make just one short statement in response to 
 the statement made by Senator Lane. I want to express on behalf 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 491 
 
 of the office appreciation of the work being done by the joint com- 
 mission They have enabled and helped the office to'clean up certain 
 reservations that needed attention. 
 
 Senator La Follette. May I interrupt you there just a moment? 
 Does the commission communicate to the office the testimony that it 
 IS taking with reference to the different reservations so that the 
 office IS informed of the matters and things which are testified to 
 betore this commission? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The hearings are printed and we read them 
 very carerully. 
 
 Senator Lane. The hearings are public and are printed. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The joint commission has been of material assistance 
 to the office, and we are just as anxious to clean up these reservations 
 as IS any member of the commission. The Indian business is a very 
 big affair. There are 135 agencies throughout the United States 
 located in 26 different States, and it is almost impossible for one 
 commissioner to keep his eye on all of these reservations. These 
 reservations are surrounded by white men who are anxious to get 
 hold of the property of the Indians, and it is a constant fight all the 
 time to protect this great property belonging to the Indians. Now 
 the commission was out in the State of Washington. They investi- 
 gated an agency out there and found a superintendent guilty of 
 wrongdoing. We immediately dismissed that superintendent. His 
 name was Johnson, superintendent of the Cushman School. The 
 commission helped us to restore a water right to the Yakima Indians 
 that is worth nearly $3,000,000. That was taken away from those 
 Indians several years ago. 
 
 While I was law clerk of the Indian Bureau I wrote a memo- 
 randum protesting against the injustice done those Indians, but I 
 was not able to force that water right back into the hands of those 
 Indians through the channels of the department. This commission, 
 however, by its power and by the legislation procured by it restored 
 to those Indians a water right worth more than $2,000,000. They 
 also investigated the Carlisle Indian School and found coiiditions 
 there deplorable. We accepted the resignation of the superintendent 
 and have placed in charge of the school another man, who is trying 
 to bring that school up to its proper standing. They have called our 
 attention to a number of other irregularities on the various reserva- 
 tions, and we are glad to have this information. They had a hear- 
 ing on Osage, and I will state to' the committee that within a few 
 days we will have a superintendent at the Osage Agency, a new man, 
 who is recognized, I believe, by all to be absolutely honest and above 
 suspicion. His name is Mr. J. George Wright, formerly Commis- 
 sioner to the Five Civilized Tribes, and he is well known to every- 
 body connected with the Indian Service. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are you making the change because you 
 found that the agent in charge was guilty of wrongdoing? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The office has had confidence in the superintendent 
 at that agency. He has a clean record and has been in theservice a 
 number of years. His name is Mr. Carroll, but with Mr. Wright m 
 charge of the agency we shall be in a better position to hnd out it 
 any wrongdoing has been carried on. . xi. i 
 
 Senator La Follette. Will Mr. Carroll remain there ( 
 
492 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Carroll will not remain at that agency. He will 
 be in the city to-day or to-morrow, and I think it is due Mr. Carroll 
 and due this commission that he be given an opportunity to be heard. 
 
 These Osage Indians have enormous funds commg to them. They 
 are paid under the law— we are required to pay them so much money 
 every quarter. When that money goes into their hands we are 
 powerless to prevent a loan shark from getting hold of that Indian 
 and getting him to enter into agreements that will require exorbitant 
 rates of interest. We can not prevent that under the existing law. 
 We are required by law to pay those Indians that money. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Has the department recommended or pro- 
 posed any change in that law ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have not, but I think if we can not clean up that 
 condition down there. Senator, it might be desirable to get legislation 
 so that it will not be necessary to pay out that money every quarter. 
 
 Senator Lane. If you will allow me to say to you now that Mr. 
 Carroll himself testified before this commission that these conditions 
 did exist some time ago ; that these loan sharks were operating. They 
 will transfer Mr. Carroll. Mr. Carroll is a very pleasant gentleman. 
 I have nothing against him, but he will not be removed from the 
 service. He has £iown that these conditions existed ; he has known 
 that this man was getting 40 per cent on the money, as well as others. 
 
 Senator Thompson. He testified that he knew it ? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; Mr. Carroll testified some while ago to prac- 
 tically the same thing, that they were charging usurious interest. 
 They will transfer him to some other agency in charge of some other 
 Indians. Maybe he will do better, having had his attention called 
 to it; probably he will. The man who has had his attention called 
 to an error is likely to do better service. But what the department 
 could have done is this: It could have stopped it at any time by 
 going to the courts and filing a complaint, as they have the power to 
 do, against the gentleman who was charging usurious interest, aiid 
 making him forfeit his money to the school fund. They could have 
 done that and stopped it, broken it up, long ago. Will the depart- 
 ment now enter upon that sort of action ? I wonder. 
 
 Until it does and until it goes right out sharply and puts a stop 
 to it under the laws of the State in which the reservation is located I 
 shall lack confidence in the shifting of superintendents around or 
 firing them off the job and putting somebody else in. They have had 
 authority all the time to do that; they have it now. The informa- 
 tion is before the commission ; they can file complaints by telegraph 
 down there to-day. This gentleman showed excerpts from his books 
 which showed a profit of $17,000 on $30,000 or $40,000 invested in 
 less than two years at this sort of business. Why are they not doing 
 it? Why have they not done it? These people have lost their 
 cattle ; they have been swindled out of them in Montana and in other 
 States. Why do they not get after it and stop it under the law? 
 When the gentleman at Carlisle was found guilty and is under in- 
 dictment now for having taken into his hands funds which did not 
 belong to him, why accept his resignation? Until the department 
 does that I have no great amount of confidence in the methods of 
 the department in handling the affairs of helpless ones, and I am 
 going to say so. It is their duty as the guardian of the Indians to 
 
INDIAK APPEOPEJATION BILL. 493 
 
 stop it, and the laws exist which make it a criminal offense The 
 laws are in existence; why not take advantage of them just one time. 
 It an Indian goes off and kills a steer that belongs to some company 
 which is grazing upon his lands on the reservation there is a com- 
 plaint filed against him by the lessee, and he goes to the penitentiary, 
 the Indian, the unlettered, the ignorant, the half-starved Indian, 
 but when the other gentleman on the outside, the broker and banker 
 and the men of means do these other things which are equally as 
 wrong or more so, for they should know better, do you find the de- 
 partment busying itself ? No, sir; you do not. We have failed yet 
 to find any instance of it. But they will have to do so, or I am 
 going to file complaint against them myself. It has got to stop. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. In connection with Superintendent Carroll. He has 
 been in the service a great many years. He has an absolutely clean 
 record up to this time. We are going to investigate his conduct at 
 that reservation. If Mr. Carroll is found guilty of wrongdoing he 
 will have to suffer the consequences the same as anybody else, but 
 under the law these superintendents have a civil-service status, and 
 legislation was passed two years ago which makes it necessary to 
 submit charges against the superintendents, and it is necessary for 
 us to show cause why they should be dismissed on their record. They 
 are protected by law, but wherever there is wrongdoing we have 
 authority of law to dismiss them. 
 
 Senator La Follette. To remove them at once? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. To remove them. In connection with the Carlisle 
 case, the commissioner considered that case for some time and we 
 weighed the evidence pro and con. Mr. Friedman had been in the 
 service for a number of years, and, up to this investigation, he was 
 recognized as one of the leading superintendents in the Indian Serv- 
 ice. There was alleged to be a misappropriation of funds there 
 amounting to about thirty and some odd dollars. 
 
 Mr. Lane. Or $300? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There was a difference of opinion as to the amount, 
 but I believe they figured it down to a very small amount of money. 
 It was not proven conclusively that that money was taken. It was 
 a question of fact to be later determined. The commissioner ac- 
 cepted Mr. Friedman's resignation, at the same time submitting the 
 charges to the Department of Justice with the request that the case 
 be thoroughly investigated, and, if the facts and the law justified it, 
 that Mr. Friedman be prosecuted. Following out that action we 
 have cooperated with the Department of Justice ; an indictment has 
 been procured against Mr. Friedman, and his case will be tried in 
 the courts. It will be determined in the courts whether he is guilty 
 of misappropriating these funds. 
 
 Senator Page. I think a man who has a friend and hears him chal- 
 lenged in public, is rather guilty if he does not stand up for him. 
 T have been there with Senator Clapp to that school and I have been 
 in pretty close contact at other times with Mr. Friedman and hii? 
 wife, and I do not know that you can prove what you claim you can 
 prove, but I shall be very much surprised if you do, and I believe m 
 the end you will find Mr. Friedman has been wronged, and I want 
 mv statement to go in on that. . ■ ^^ i. 
 
 Senator Lane. All I know is what the evidence sworn to indicates 
 about funds being misappropriated. 
 
494 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There are always two sides to these matters. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; but the evidence was positive to that extent 
 given by the treasurer, the bookkeeper of the school, that this money 
 had been used. 
 
 Senator Page. The mountain labored and brought forth a mouse. 
 You made a long and extended investigation with a determination to 
 crush that man, and finally found thirty-odd dollars. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is very unfair, and, I am sorry to say, does 
 not correspond with the facts. 
 
 Senator Page. I wish to say that a long time before you reached 
 a final conclusion you said to me and to others " I believe that man 
 is guilty," and I think you acted upon the idea that he was guilty. 
 
 Senator Lane. No; you are mistaken. 
 
 Senator Page. I will withdraw it all, then. 
 
 Senator Lane. I had no prejudice against the man at all. I did 
 not want to see any injustice done. The evidence was brought in by 
 the other employees that this money had been used wrongly, and 
 they showed the books for it, and I presumed it was true ; and if that 
 was the case, that was not a good thing. That was not, hbwever, the 
 case. We made just merely the findings without any recommenda- 
 tion at all. The other case, I think, was more aggravated than this 
 instance was — the beating up of a 17 or 18 year old girl — that caused 
 a doubt as to the proper management of the school. It seemed that 
 Mr. Friedman was not in close touch with the affairs and the condi- 
 tion was bad there, probably from no positive evil intent on his part ; 
 simply a lack of close supervision. That, I think, goes on in a good 
 many agencies. We found the jail with seven boys in there, locked 
 up for drunkenness. He had not been down to talk with these boys 
 to tell them not to get drunk and not to get in there any more. He 
 left them in the hands of a disciplinarian who was said to be rather 
 harsh and merciless. Also, there were other conditions — lack of 
 food supplies and clothing, and all those things together, which were 
 revealed to us. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Before you leave that I want to put in the rec- 
 ord — I will never belie\'e Mr. Friedman would be guilty of misap- 
 propriation of the funds until a jury has rendered a verdict against 
 him. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not know what your mental attitude is toward 
 it, as that is a matter for yourself and you carry it under your own 
 hat, but have you read the testimony in the case ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I have read the testimony and I have heard these 
 things for years. 
 
 Senator Lane. I know, but in this investigation we have made. 
 
 Senator Gronna. If you will pardon me, I think if you are going 
 to try this man on the series of charges mentioned here, you either 
 ought to have the testimony or have this man here. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes ; I think so, too, for that matter. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Senator Page and I were not trying him ; we were 
 rather insisting here that he was not being tried, and until he was 
 tried that at least two of us were withholding our judgment. That 
 was all. 
 
 Senator Lane. He is under indictment down there, I am told. 
 That will be settled, I suppose. 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 495 
 
 Senator Geonna. Is there any reason why the Indians should not 
 be protected from paying high rates of interest? Have we not State 
 laws which protect the white man, and why can not the same law 
 be applied to the* Indian ? 
 
 Senator Lane. Here is a man who is not competent, Senator 
 Gronna. 
 
 Senator Gronna. In most every State usury forfeits not only the 
 excessive rate of interest, but in many States it forfeits the principal. 
 We can not enact any law here that will make men honest. The 
 law should be well enforced. If you fail to enforce the law you 
 have no recourse. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is what I say. It should have been the duty 
 of the department to put a stop to this. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I am not saying this about the department. 
 
 Senator Lane. I know; it was the superintendent's duty to put 
 a stop to it, and he had the law back of him. I want to say in addi- 
 tion that the inspectors have been down on this agency in Oklahoma 
 where this money is being loaned at 40 per cent. How often do you 
 send them there ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have no regular time. 
 
 Senator Lane. But they drop down there every few months, do 
 they not? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We had an inspector at the Osage Reservation at least 
 twice during the last year. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes ; and I do not know whether they reported the 
 condition to exist there, yet it was open and notorious. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I do not want my statement to go in the record 
 showing that I am criticizing the department, because it is something 
 the department could not help. If the blame is to be laid on any- 
 body, it should be laid on the superintendent. 
 
 Senator Lane. Exactly. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Men who are there as guardians and protectors 
 of the Indians and their property. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Has there been any attempt at prosecutions? 
 
 Senator Gronna. I do not want my statement to appear as a criti- 
 cism on the department. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have under this administration very materially 
 limited the turning over of moneys to Indians to be handled free 
 from departmental control — ^that is, their trust funds. We are try- 
 ing as hard as we can, under the law and under conditions that pre- 
 vail down there, to protect those Indians from being robbed by the 
 bankers and other money lenders. 
 
 Senator Thompson. There have not been any bankers prosecuted 
 or attempted to be prosecuted ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Could not the department take action in that 
 matter ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I am not sure that we could prosecute them under any 
 Federal law. We have taken administrative action to endeavor to 
 stop the illegal rate of interest, but I know of no Federal law that 
 would authorize us to prosecute the bankers for chargmg a high 
 rate of interest. They do it in such a way that it is difficult to get 
 the evidence to go into court and to prosecute them. 
 
496 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. I should like to ask Mr. Meritt if there is any law, 
 either Federal or State, which forbids the department from trying 
 to enforce the law against usury ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Oh, no. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. As to the Osages in Oklahoma, they are citizens there. 
 Their territory is organized into counties, and they are under the 
 full jurisdiction of the State laws. There is no reason why usury 
 should not be prosecuted there on behalf of the Indians the same as 
 on behalf of other citizens. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I want to add that the State laws apply to all 
 Indians in my State. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I should like to add one little thing further. Down 
 at the Osage Agency the matter could be handled administratively. 
 In other words, I will say that the agent in charge has been in favor 
 of the 40 per cent deal, and has, under oath before the commission, 
 defended it, and said it was reasonable. He could, by administrative 
 handling of the money, have prevented much of the usurious loans. 
 Now, then, as to the organization of this loan business down there, 
 it came about in this way 
 
 Senator Gkonna. Before you leave the subject of the rates of 
 interest, what is the legal rate of interest in Oklahoma ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Ten per cent. All the banks of Pawhuska were handling 
 Indian accounts. The two banks handling the largest amounts 
 were the First National and the Citizens National Banks, and they 
 were handling upward of $25,000, and others $50,000. The Federal 
 examiner of those accounts found that they were so large, and that 
 the usurious penalties involved were sufficient to affect the credibility 
 and liability of the bank to such an extent that he ordered those 
 accounts taken out. They were taken out and then handled by a 
 partnership of the president of the First National Bank and the 
 vice president of the Citizens National Bank, and their loan institu- 
 tion has been referred to as the "Downtown Exchange," by com- 
 parison with the agency office, which is up on the hill, and is known 
 as the " Hill Exchange." Among the Indians and the fellows who 
 were not standing in with them generally they were known as the 
 " skin shop." 
 
 Senator La Follette. How much money is paid out quarterly to 
 those Indians, or approximately? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. About a quarter million of dollars. Sometimes more 
 and sometimes less than a quarter million. 
 
 Senator La Follette. A quarter million of dollars? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. The Osage Indians are the richest Indians 
 in the United States. They are worth between $15,000 and $20,000 
 apiece. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Can not some check be made — can you not 
 propose some legislation that will change the existing law in that 
 respect and save this? They must be squandering that money. The 
 fact that has just been testified to here by Mr. Sloan, and the large 
 business that is done by the officers of these banks down there, shows 
 that they are getting the money away from these Indians. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The Osage Indians have more money than is good for 
 them. 
 
 Senator Page. That is theirs, however ? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 497 
 
 Senator Lane. They are separating it from them as rapidly as 
 possible. 
 
 Senator Page. It is theirs. They do not starve. They have enough 
 to eat and wear. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are they full-blood Indians ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I judge a little less than one-half are full bloods. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. About one-half, I think. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are payments made to the full bloods the 
 same as the others? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Is there no protection that can be proposed 
 that would save that money for these Indians or for their families, 
 or for their descendants ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have in mind legislation that will enable us tp 
 deposit that money to the credit of the Indians and pay it out in 
 accordance with their needs. That will require a change in the exist- 
 ing law, and will be opposed vigorously by the Osage Indians. This 
 matter is going to be considered by the new superintendent, and we 
 may have some legislation prepared ready for submission at the 
 next session of the Congress in regard to this matter. 
 
 Senator Thompson. About how much per capita do these Indians 
 get when it is paid out that way ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There are about 2,000 Indians, and the amount varies 
 from quarter to quarter in accordance with the amount of oil pro- 
 duced in that quarter. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Does it run some quarters higher than a 
 quarter of a million dollars? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I believe it has run higher. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. There have been individual per capita payments 
 amounting to over $450. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Quarterly? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Yes ; for about 2,200 Indians. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They have an income average per family of about 
 $2,000. They are the richest Indians in the world. 
 
 Senator Thompson. They would then be getting about $8,000 a 
 year. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I said about $2,000 per family per year. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do payments go to each Indian child as 
 well as to the parents? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We pay the money for the children to the guardian. 
 Senator La Follette. I mean is each child entitled to this per 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes; all share alike. The quarterly payment i^s any- 
 where from $125,000 up to and more than a quarter miUion dollars. 
 Senator Thompson. Are they acquiring any property with this 
 
 "^ Mr?" Meritt. Some of them are acquiring property and others are 
 gradually disposing of their property. They are like any other class 
 Sf people, some in the community will acquire and others will dis- 
 pose of what they have got gradually. ., • i,. q 
 Senator La Follette. Can they sell out their oil rights i 
 Mr. Meritt. They can not sell their land without the approval 
 of the department. 
 
 82833—15 32 
 
498 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 • 
 
 Senator Ghonna. It seems to me that some law ought to be passed 
 authorizing the Indian Department to withhold from them at least 
 part of this money and keep it in trust for them. 
 
 Mr. IVIeeitt. That is, in my judgment, the way to handle that. As 
 soon as Mr. Wright is there long enough to make an investigation 
 we will ask his recommendation, and we shall probably have some 
 legislation to be offered to the committee at the next session of Con- 
 gress. 
 
 Senator Thompson. What is the moral result of the payment of 
 this money to these Indians? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The result, of course, varies in different cases. Some 
 Indians make good use of their money, but the majority of the In- 
 dians, I would say, squander more or less of it. 
 
 (Thereupon, at 12.45 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until 
 Thursday, January 28, 1915, at 11 o'clock a. m.) 
 
 THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 1915. 
 
 The committee met at 11 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment. 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, Robinson, Owen, 
 Clapp, Page, Gronna, and Townsend. 
 
 GILA KIVEE INDIAN EESEEVATION lEEIGATION. 
 
 The Chaieman. Hon. Carl Hayden, Representative from Arizona, 
 is present. He appears here in behalf of an amendment to this 
 bill. He understands it very thoroughly and will make an argu- 
 ment in favor of it. It is Docket No. 235. I called upon the 
 honorable Secretary of the Interior for a report respecting this 
 legislation, and the Secretary has just sent me up a letter this morn- 
 ing, dated January 28, 1915, favoring the legislation. 
 
 STATEMENT OP HON. CARL HAYDEN, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
 THE STATE OF ARIZONA. 
 
 Mr. Hayden. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I presume that the 
 best way to proceed would be to read the amendment and the letter 
 of the Secretary. The proposed amendment is as follows : 
 
 For beginning the construction of a dam and necessary controlling works for 
 diverting water from flie GUa Eiver at a site above Florence, Arizona, for 
 the irrigation of Indian land and allotments on the Gila River Indian Reserva- 
 tion and private lands in Pinal Coanty, Arizona, as estimated by the Board of 
 Engineer Officers of the United States Army in paragraph one hundred and 
 thirty-eight of its report to the Secretary of War, of February fourteenth, 
 nineteen hundred and fourteen (House Document Numbered seven hundred 
 and ninety-one) $75,000, to remain available until expended, reimbursable as 
 Congress may hereater provide, the total cost not to exceed $175,000. 
 
 The Chaieman. The Secretary has made the following report on 
 that amendment : 
 
 Department of the Inteeior, 
 Washington, January 28, 1915. 
 My Dear Senator Ashurst : I have received your communication of .Tanuary 
 19, 1915, requesting report upon a proposed amendment to the Indian bill 
 making an appropriation of $75,000 for beginning the constrnction of a dam and 
 
INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 499 
 
 necessary controlling works for diverting water from the Gila River at a site 
 above Florence, Ariz., for the irrigntiou of Indian land and allotments on tbe 
 Gila River Indian Reservation and private lauds in Pinal County, as estimated 
 by the Board of Engineer Officers of the United States Army in its report to the 
 Secretary of War, page 46, paragraphs 136-13S, House Document 791 Sixty- 
 third Congress, second session. 
 
 This report describes the situation with regard to the diversion dam which it 
 will be necessary to construct in order to utilize the waters of the Gila River 
 when the San Carlos Dam is built. However, the usefulness of this diversion 
 dam does not deiicud entirely upon the construction of the San Carlos Reservoir, 
 beciuise for many years past considerable areas of land have been irrigated by 
 diversion through various headings of the flood flow of the Gila River above 
 Florence. To irrigate the lands of the Pima Indian Reservation upon the south 
 side of the Gila River at the upper or eastern end of the reservation will re- 
 quire the construction of such a dam in order to conserve the flow of the river 
 to as great an extent as possible. 
 
 The proposed site, about 12 miles above Florence, is at the mouth of a series 
 of canyons through which the river flows uninterruptedly from San Carlos, but 
 from this point on the river course Is through a broad flat valley with an 
 immense river bed consisting of broad deep deposits of silt and gravel. When 
 the flow of the river is low, and when of course water is most valuable, the 
 stream disappears entirely soon after emerging from the mountains above 
 Florence. 
 
 Aside from the use which tie Indian reservation may eventually make of 
 this diversion dam, practically all of the landowners ofC the reservation who 
 have been irrigating in this vicinity may receive their supply of flood water 
 from this point of diversion. 
 
 The Gila River has just experienced one of the most disastrous floods in Its 
 history, and all the headings of the various canals above Florence have been 
 washed away, and the earth covering through which these canals ran has been 
 entirely removed, so that tliese channels can not be again constructed. The 
 superintendent of the reservation reports also that at least one canal heading 
 for the Indian reservation, on the south side of the river, is washed out, and 
 the large canal known as the Little Gila has been very badly damaged. The 
 land which this canal supplies with water could be reached from channels head- 
 ing at the diversion dam which it is proposed to build, and wheri so supplied 
 would be past all danger of future damage or destruction. 
 
 The white owners who ha^e suffered by the recent floods might possibly 
 secure means of constructing a dam at the point mentioned, thus insuring to 
 themselves immunity from a recurring flood, but it might be necessary for the 
 Government to oppose such a step in order to protect the water right now 
 claimed for the Indians. 
 
 While there is no doubt but that, as a matter of law, the Pima Indians have 
 a prior right to the waters of the Gila River as against all other appropriatorsr 
 on that stream, yet they have not been receiving a sufficient quantity of water 
 to irrigate their' lands for lack of the physical means of obtaining the same. 
 The construction of a diversion dam at this point will give the Indians an 
 advantage of location that they have not heretofore en.1oyed, because the Gov- 
 ernment of the United States will thus actually control the only feasible point 
 where the waters of the Gila may be diverted. The Indians are entitled to 
 control this strategic position in order to adequately preserve and perpetuate 
 the Government's claim to water in their behalf, and for this reason alone, 
 whether the San Carlos Reservoir is ever constructed or not, this appropriation 
 is amply .nistified. , .» a 
 
 The cost of the diversion dam itself is estimated by the Board of Army 
 Engineers as $150,000, and an addition;il item of $25,000 should be included m 
 order to make the necessarv excavation through the rock headmg, so that con- 
 nection may he made with the present canal systems of the Florence district 
 The site of' the proposed diversion is an ideal one compared with others along 
 the Gila River, as on both sides of the river are massive outcroppings of rock. 
 The river bed is comparatively narrow and confined between hiUsto this one 
 channel, and a railroad upon which to bring in supplies and material parallels 
 the river at this point, so that the cost wotild be the minimum for such work^ 
 The railroad track is high enough above the river so that no interference with 
 its operation will result even after the dam is built. The dam will not be -high 
 enough for storage purposes, but simply a low wier a few feet above the normal 
 surface of the river, so that water may be properly diverted into the canal, and 
 
500 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 
 
 that all of the flow at the low stages, when the water is most valuable am 
 which occur for long periods, may be available. 
 
 It is recommended that the proposed amendment receive favorable con 
 sideration by Congress. 
 Cordially, yours, 
 
 Fbanklin K. Lane. 
 
 Hon. H. F. AsHUBST, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I first heard aboul 
 this matter by telegram that I received from Florence, Ariz., stating 
 that a great flood had gone down the Gila River a little over thre( 
 weeks ago, entirely destroying the headings and carrying away all 
 the earth that lay in the river bed between the rocks on each side 
 where the white people formerly had their canals. There has been 
 a conflict of interest between the people at Florence and the Pima 
 Indians over the use of this water, but the calamity which came b}' 
 reason of this flood and which placed these people in such shape that 
 they can not help themselves at present 
 
 Senator Townsend. What people do you mean? 
 
 Mr. Hatden. I mean the white appropriators on the stream above 
 the Indian reservation. This dam is located about 18 miles above 
 the reservation line. There is an irrigated district between the 
 Indian reservation and this dam site. It struck me that, with the 
 white people willing to cooperate with the Government, now was 
 the psychological time to secure this dam site for the benefit of the 
 Indians. As the report properly states, there is no doubt about the 
 Indians having a prior right to the use of water on this stream. You 
 could go to court and get a decision saying that the Pimas had this 
 prior right above all other appropriators, but it would not produce as 
 much moisture for the Indian lands as might be found in the ink- 
 well of the judge who signed the decree, because they have no way to 
 get it. 
 
 If the Indians were compelled to receive their water through the 
 river bed a mile or two wide, consisting of sand and gravel, before 
 the water could get down to the reservation there would not be any 
 water in the river. This site is the first place in the stream above 
 the valley proper where the hills come down so that you can actually 
 control the river. Because all the interested parties are now agree- 
 able, I suggested, after talking it over with Senator Ashurst, thai 
 it would be proper to introduce this amendment. 
 
 If the San Carlos Reservoir is ever. constructed this dam will be ai 
 integral part of the project and, in my opinion, would become as 
 valuable as the reservoir itself. I live on the Salt River project 
 about 50 miles from this place, and I speak advisedly when I say 
 for the farmers there that if you asked them whether they preferrec 
 to have the Roosevelt Reservoir and depend on the old method oi 
 diversion by brush dams or the permanent diversion dam at Granit( 
 Reef and do without the reservoir, they would all say that the diver 
 sion dam gave much more service considering the comparative cosi 
 of the two structures. 
 
 I was born in an irrigated district under the Tempe canal, whid 
 has a maximum capacity of about 20,000 miner's inches. The averag< 
 flow to which the canal is entitled is about 4,000 miner's inches o! 
 water. With this large canal whenever a flood comes, if the dan 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 501 
 
 holds, they can irrigate the entire district during the few days that 
 the flood lasts. But, if the flood washes the diversion dam away, it 
 can not be repaired until the water goes down. As a matter of fact, 
 farmers have lost more by floods than they ha\e by drought under the 
 Tempe canal. 
 
 So that a permanent diversion dam at this point will produce a 
 flood-water supply sufficient for the irrigation of the Indian lands 
 now cultivated on the south side of this stream and the private land 
 that is irrigated in that vicinity. 
 
 The advantage of having this dam built by the Government is that 
 when the Government controls the site the Indian will get the benefit 
 of his prior right to use the flow of the Gila River. If there is any 
 surplus water it can be given to those entitled to it. 
 
 Senator Towxsend. Do you take this appropriation out of the 
 Indians' money I 
 
 The Chairman. It is reimbursible as Congress may hereafter pro- 
 vide. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. We have followed the language as used in another 
 proposed amendment for the construction of a dam on the Pima 
 Reservation. The reimbursible feature can be woiked out in two 
 ways by the Secretary of the Interior 
 
 Senator Clapp. You have not answered the question. This does 
 not come out of the Indians' fund at all, does it ? 
 
 Mr. Hatden. There is no Indian fund. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is an appropriation out of the Treasury of the 
 United States. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. It is an appropriation by the Federal Government. 
 There is no Indian tribe in Arizona that has any fund to its credit 
 in the Treasury. They are the poorest Indians in the United States. 
 I will say, further, that the Pimas are the best Indians in the United 
 States. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You do not undertake in your amendment to 
 set forth the manner in which it shall be reimbursed ; you leave that 
 for future legislation. ^^ j ■ 
 
 Mr. Hatden. For this reason— it perhaps could be handled m two 
 ways; either the whole charge made against the Indians' lands and 
 then charge the private landowners, as is done in the Reclamation 
 Service for furnishing water on a rental basis. Or the Secretary 
 might, without difficulty, agree with such private landowners that 
 they shall pay their part of the construction cost. Whether it is 
 advisable to proceed by one method or the other I caii not tell. Mow- 
 ever, I have no doubt but that the Secretary would be able to work 
 
 the proposition out. , ^ -n u ii, ^^9 
 
 Senator Robinson. What do you contemplate will be the cost i 
 Mr. Hatden. Under the estimate of the Board of Army Engineers 
 it will cost $150,000 to construct this dam. The Indian Office recom- 
 mends an additional appropriation of $25,000 m order to take care 
 of the rockwork made necessary because the earth has washed away 
 where the canal headings were formerly located. 
 Senator Robinson. That makes $175,000 ( 
 
 £a?o™pp^f kelot.1 co=t .t this time ■» »«,000 and the Umi. 
 of the total cost would be $175,000? 
 Senator Robinson. Yes; that is what he said. 
 
502 INDLA.N APPEOPEIATION 3ILL. 
 
 The Chairman. In the letter of the honorable Secretary of the 
 Interior which I have just read the Secretary makes reference to page 
 46, paragraphs 136, 137, and 138, of House Document No. 791, Sixty- 
 third Congress, second session. It will be remembered that our com- 
 mittee appropriated $25,000 for the purpose of causing this investi- 
 gation to be made, and a very complete investigation was made and 
 report made to the Secretary of War, and it is included in House 
 Document No. 791, and the diversion dam is there discussed in the 
 following language : 
 
 136. At the several sites for a diversion dam ledge rock is found at one or 
 both abutments, but investigation has shown that toward the center of the river 
 rock is not within practicable reach. However, for the lift desired, not to 
 exceed 10 feet, a dam of the Indian type will answer. 
 
 137. Through the courtesy of Mr. G. S. Biackley, member of the American 
 Society of Civil Engineers, the board has been able to consult the design for a 
 diversion dam for this place prepared by the late Mr. J. D. Schuyler in 1911 and 
 a later design prepared by Messrs. Schuyler and Binckley. 
 
 138. Prom a consideration of these designs and the quantities of materials 
 required for a dam following the second deisign the board is able to state that 
 the cost of the diversion dam, including head gate and silt sluice, need not 
 exceed $150,000. 
 
 Mr. Hayden. I should just like to say in conclusion, Mr. Chair- 
 man, that the fact that private land will be benefited by the construc- 
 tion of this dam ought not to deter the committee from making the 
 appropriation. You have here a given water supply of which bene- 
 ficial use can be made by irrigating a certain area of land lying be- 
 low it, a part of which is in private ownership and the balance in the 
 Indian reservation. If the entire cost is placed upon the Indians 
 it might be prohibitive, but there is no reason why the Secretary 
 can not apportion part of that cost to the private land that would 
 be benefited. 
 
 I look at this proposition in this way : Here we have Indians on 
 a reservation and we have white people living beside them. Both 
 races are going to be there for all time to come, and the sooner they 
 make up their minds to this fact the better it will be for all con- 
 cerned. They have a community of interests, because they must 
 obtain their water for irrigation from a common source of supply. 
 If they entered into this mutual arrangement, the rights of the In- 
 dians can be fully protected by the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you think the Indians will use this water 
 if you give it to them? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. There is no question about that. They irrigated 
 their lands before the white people ever came there. They grew 
 cotton and wheat and corn, and were prosperous until the time 
 the white settlers higher up on the stream took the water away from 
 them. They are the best agricultural Indians in the United States. 
 They are progressive and will accept instruction in agriculture by 
 the department officials. They are growing Egyptian cotton on that 
 reservation now at a profit of from $50 to $80 an acre. There is no 
 question about the climate or soil or anything else. They only need 
 a water supply, and they need it badly, to continue their develop- 
 ment. 
 
 Senator Townsend. It is a project that is primarily in the interest 
 of the Indians, is it? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 5Q3 
 
 Mr. Hayden. There is no question about that, otherwise I would 
 not appear before your committee. 
 
 Senator Lane. How many acres of Indian land will be irrigated; 
 do you know I ^ ' 
 
 • ¥"■• Hayden. There is more land on the reservation that could be 
 irrigated than there is available water in the Gila River. 
 Senator Lane. How much will they irrigate ? 
 
 ^fvPt^'™^---'- *^'"^ °^ *^^® s«^ith side of the stream there is 
 available tor irrigation some 15,000 or 20,000 acres. 
 Senator Lane. How much land of the whites will be irrigated* 
 Mr. Hayden. There are about 8,000 acres under irrigation at pres- 
 ent. ^ 
 
 Senator Townsend. Are there any of the Indians' lands under the 
 canals i 
 
 Mr. Hayden. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How much ? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. All lands have to be under canals in order to be 
 irrigated. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I know it has to be, but is it now ? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. Considerable areas are now irrigated. 
 
 Senator Townsend. The white man's land is under the ditch now, 
 is it? ' 
 
 Mr. Hayden. Yes, sir; but the Indians' diversion is below the 
 white diversion, and the passage of this amendment will carry the 
 Indian diversion up the river, so that he will get an equal chance to 
 obtain his share of the water. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Are you providing any appropriation for 
 digging, a ditch for the Indians, so that they can get the water on 
 their lands ? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. The waterways are at present constructed from the 
 dam itself down to the vicinity of Indian country. That would 
 necessarily be a part of the arrangement between the Secretary of 
 the Interior and the landowners turning over these ditches or the 
 use of them in consideration of the delivery of the proper quantity 
 of water to their lands. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do these 8,000 acres belonging to the whites lay 
 above the 17,000 acres ? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. And this water which they would divert into the 
 canal would first pass the 8,000 acres of the white men? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. Yes, sir ; it would first pass the lands. 
 
 Senator Lane. And the Indians would get such water as came by 
 the land of the whites ? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. If the United States controls the only point of di- 
 version and controls the waterway down to the Indian reservation, 
 the Indian undoubtedly will get his water. If that site was con- 
 trolled by private individuals and there should be some suit at law, 
 the court would decree that they must turn some of that water to 
 the Indians. They would turn it down the river bed full of sand 
 and gravel, and the Indians will never get it. So this amendment 
 will give them, as the Secretary of the Interior points out, the strate- 
 gic advantage to which they are entitled in this situation. 
 
504 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. You referred to the fact that these lands were 
 irrigated years ago. Page 11, paragraph 23 of this report of the 
 Board of Army Engineers, is in part as follows : 
 
 For a number of years the United States has been and still is rapidly dis- 
 posing of the land along the river, it being well known that these lands have 
 no value unless water is taken from the stream, and it has been equally ap- 
 parent that by this action the Indians would be pauperized by being deprived 
 of their only means of support. 
 
 Public attention has been called to this matter from time to time. * • • 
 Meanwhile it is asserted that the Indians, learning to depend upon the Gov- 
 ernment for food and clothing, have been rapidly losing their capabilities 
 for self-support and are becoming a permanent charge and source of annual 
 expense. If they are to be kept from further degradation it is necessary that 
 prompt action be taken toward enabling them to practice some means of self- 
 support. This is possible only by securing to them the means of obtaining an 
 ample supply of water. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I understand from the statement of the Sec- 
 rectary and the admission of Congress that the Indians are entitled 
 to the first right to this water. Are they entitled to water for the 
 whole of their land? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. I do not think there is any doubt about their prior 
 rights to water as a matter of law. " 
 
 Senator Townsend. That is, it would take all of this water to ir- 
 rigate all of their lands, would it not? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. During the low stages of the river; yes. This is a 
 flood-water proposition. When the river is in flood there is ample 
 water for the Indian lands and all the white man's lands. When 
 the river goes down there is not enough for anybody. The Indians 
 obtain an auxiliary supply by pumping. 
 
 I want the committee to understand this flood-water proposition. 
 When a flood comes on that stream it generally lasts three or four 
 days. With a permanent dam that can not be washed out and a 
 canal of ample capacity the Indians and the farmers can irrigate 
 the whole of that country during the course of that flood. 
 
 Senator Townsend. By the course of that flood do you mean the 
 dry season? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. No ; we have two rainy seasons in Arizona — a winter 
 and a summer season of rain. It rains on the headwaters of the 
 streams, and freshets come down that last three or four days. With 
 a permanent dam and a large canal the people can get the water out 
 and irrigate the whole country during these three or four days, and 
 then the water is gone until the next flood comes. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I am very much in sympathy with giving the 
 Indian water if it belongs to him and he is going to use it, but I 
 still have not got it clear in my mind that this is not really a white 
 man's proposition. In the first place, you are going to irrigate 
 6,000 to 8,000 acres. Now, you have not water to irrigate those and 
 all the Indians' lands, have you ? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. There is ample water in time of flood in this stream 
 to irrigate all the Indians' land that is irrigable and all the white 
 man's land that is irrigable. 
 
 Senator Townsend. When it is not in flood, do these 8,000 acres 
 get some water ? 
 
 Mr. Hayden. Very little, because when the river is not in flood 
 the Indian has a prior right to the water. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 505 
 
 Senator Townsexd. But he gets nothing at all if the water for 
 those 8,000 acres is exhausted before it gets to him. 
 
 Mr. Hayden. In every irrigated valley in Arizona there are landa 
 that have a prior right to water which are located below lands that 
 have made subsequent appropriations. The courts decree that the 
 water shall be carried by the lands up the stream and be delivered 
 to the lands lower doAvn that are entitled to it. The prior appropri- 
 ator has no trouble in getting his water if he has a right of way 
 through some canal so that it is actually possible to deliver it to him. 
 
 Senator Townsend. That does not occur with the Indian^ down 
 there ? 
 
 Mr. Hatden. No; because the Indian has no Avay of getting iU 
 This amendment provides a physical means whereby his water will 
 be delivered to him when it is in the river. 
 
 Senator Towksekd. I do not see how this gets him any water 
 under those conditioiip at all. You do not provide any ditch for 
 him. You provide a diversion dam there that for four or five days 
 would give him some water, but practically all of the time outside 
 of the four or five days the white man gets whatever water there is 
 in that river for his 8,000 acres. 
 
 Mr. Hayden. The point is simply this, that there exists at the 
 present time canals constructed by the white people that have hereto- 
 fore diverted the water at this site — as a matter of fact there are 
 two available canals there. I had in mind that the Secretary of the 
 Interior would say to the white people whose lands could be irri- 
 gated from these canals, "We propose to build a dam. You own a 
 canal. The dam, of course, will cost very much more than the con- 
 struction cost of the canal, and in consideration of allowing us to 
 acquire a right of way through these canals of yours to the Indian 
 reservation we will allow you to obtain the flood waters from this 
 permanent dam of ours." It is a simple arrangement that I do not 
 think there will be any trouble about making, because it is for the 
 benefit of both the parties concerned. In other words, it is not re- 
 quired that the Governnient of the United States shall appropriate 
 for the construction of a canal to the Indian reservation, because 
 canals already exist that with slight changes and additions can be 
 used to convey the water from this dam to the Indian lands. 
 
 Senator Page. But they belong to the white men. 
 
 Mr. Hayden. Yes; but I have no doubt that the Secretary would 
 insist that a good title to the right of way should pass to the United 
 States. I would if I were the Secretary. I have no doubt but that 
 the people would be glad to transfer such title in consideration of 
 the benefit that they would obtain from this permanent diversion 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Does your amendment contemplate that action 
 by the Secretary, or does it leave him free to do whatever he likes 
 
 Mr Hayden It leaves him free to do whatever is necessary. We 
 do not attempt in this amendment to go into details about the matter. 
 However, it is such a simple proposition that I think the Secretary 
 could arrange it himself. He will not have much difficulty m deal- 
 ing with thi men who will be benefited by the construction of this 
 dam. 
 
606 INDIAN APPHOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. I would like to say, if you allow me right there, 
 that usually the Indian does not benefit from the water as much as 
 he ought to if the white man has the first opportunity to secure the 
 water. They usually get it, and the Indian's interests are becoming 
 merely secondary. We have that trouble in one of the reservations 
 in Montana, and the experience has been that the interest of the 
 Indians must be very well guarded. Here are 8,000 acres lying above 
 the 17,000 acres, and the 8,000 acres belong to the white men. The 
 water is going through there and what the Indian will get is prob- 
 lematical, and it is very hard for the department here at Washington 
 to keep track of what is going on down there. The idea is growing 
 all the time, and is being insisted upon, that the Indian, being use- 
 less, usually suffers, and it would look as if this proposition should 
 be investigated. All of this is made out of reimbursable funds out 
 of Indian property. They ought to have water down there; these 
 Indians need it. I heard what you said, that there was water enough 
 for both of them, but I think the interest of the Indians ought to be 
 carefully guarded. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. If the Senator will permit, I think his statement 
 of facts is absolutely true, provided the diversion dam and the canal 
 system are in the hands of private individuals who control the distri- 
 bution of the water and let the Indian have what is left. Under such 
 conditions the Indian is not going to do as well as though the United 
 States Indian Service controls the site. That is what it is proposed 
 to do in this case. 
 
 Senator Lane. In one of the reservations in Montana the court 
 decided that Indians were entitled to so much water and that no 
 one could interfere with it; if so, they would be subject to arrest; 
 yet the Indians did not get water sufficient to raise their crops. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. Who controls the system? 
 
 Senator Lane. The Indian Bureau has charge of it. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. The entire system? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes ; all that system. I think it has been declared 
 that the Indian has a legal right to it. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. The difference between a legal right to water and 
 physically getting it are two different things, as we have learned 
 from experience in Arizona. 
 
 Senator Lane. Well, physically getting it is the trouble. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. I have offered a plan whereby the Indians can get 
 the water. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is a man here present who has made a study 
 of this proposition; he talked to me about it, and I would like to 
 hear from him. 
 
 STATEMENT OF S. M. BEOSSIUS, OF THE INDIAN RIGHTS ASSO- 
 CIATION. 
 
 Mr. Beossius. Mr. Chairman, I would be very glad to say any- 
 thing that I know, or answer any questions that you ask, but I want 
 to say that I have been acquainted with that Pima situation, and 
 their getting water, for the last fifteen years. There has been a 
 great deal of advertising and creating public sentiment in favor 
 of protecting the water rights of those Indians. The Government 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 507 
 
 itself man}' years ago instituted a suit to protect the water rights 
 of the Indians to the^ waters of the Pima Eiver. That suit was 
 begun, but white proprietors, I think as far as 200 miles above 
 the Pima Eeservation, had settled there many years before and were 
 allowed to use the water and gradually take the water rights away 
 from the Indians and the Government decided it was impracticable 
 altogether to prosecute that suit to judgment. The right of the 
 Indian to the water, as Mr. Hayden stated, is admitted, but there is 
 no way of enforcing that right. I think the proposition as con- 
 tained in this amendment is a good one if the prior right of the 
 Indian can be further protected by the insertion of a, little clause 
 stating that the Indian water rights shall be first protected and the 
 remainder go to the white men. I think that would be a proper 
 provision if it can be readily done. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you mean after all the Indian lands that are 
 susceptible of irrigation shall have been irrigated? 
 
 Mr. Beossius. Yes. I think that would be a good clause. How- 
 ever, I do not know, Mr. Chairman, that we ought to go that far. 
 That would possibly be asking too much for the Indians. I would 
 go so far as to provide not exceeding water for 40,000 acres of 
 Indian land. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. I do not think there is that much irrigable land on 
 the south side of the river. 
 
 Mr. Beossius. Not on one side ; it is on both sides. But that would 
 be a proper limitation for the Pimas — a limit of 40,000 acres. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. The reason we made no detailed provisions about 
 water rights or about canal systems, or anything of that kind, was 
 that knowing the Secretary of the Interior and knowmg the Indian 
 Office I did not have much doubt but that such details would be 
 properly cared for. 
 Mr. Beossitjs. I think it would be myself. 
 
 Mr. Hatden. It can be left in their discretion. By going into de- 
 tails we might bind them so that they could not do what was best. 
 
 Mr. Beossius. That would meet any possible objection— the in- 
 sertion of a limiting clause that the Indians should have the hrst 
 right to the water, and be recognized first. . 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that there are two im- 
 portant things that should be looked after in this matter: First, that 
 the Indians should get the water-this surplus water-to their land 
 first; they should have the prior right. Secondly, the Secretary of 
 the interior should control the canals under that system so that we 
 will be sure to get the water to t)ie land of the Indians 
 
 Mr Hayden I would like to ask you a question right there. Do 
 you ikSkYhe Indian Office and the Secretary of the Interio™ 
 enter into a proposition like this without doing those two things' 
 
 Mr mJeit? We will insist on that being done, but we would be 
 glad iflTwere incorporated in the bill so there would be no question 
 
 amendment; that is, if you conceded that it ought to be done . 
 
508 INDIAir^APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Hayden. There is no question about that, if you make it in 
 terms broad enough so as not to tie the hands of the department. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Has the department considered this amend- 
 ment ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; we have considered it, and a report has 
 been prepared in the department and sent to the chairman. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I understood the chairman to read a report 
 from the Secretary on the bill. I am speaking now of the form 
 of the amendment. Has the department approved the form of this 
 smendment, having in mind the purpose which you have expressed ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The department has submitted a favorable report on 
 the amendment, but we would be glad to have this matter worked 
 out in the legislation so that there will be no question about the pro- 
 tection of the rights of the Indians. - 
 
 Senator Robinson. May I make this suggestion, which, I think, 
 in vievf of the discussion here, would be pertinent: Suppose the 
 department takes this amendment and considers it and, if it deems it 
 necessary, makes some suggestion as to an amendment to the amend- 
 ment that will carry out the purpose that we think ought to be 
 expressed. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I was on the point of making an amendment, but 
 I think that would be the better course. I want to call the attention 
 of Mr. Meritt to one phase of this matter. The Secretary should be 
 fully authorized to make the necessary arrangement with the owners 
 of these canals before there is any construction of the dam begun. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is the idea exactly. Then you would 
 have to use it or waste the money that has already been expended. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Because he will have to decide how far he can 
 compel the owners below to surrender the rights to the prior rights 
 of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Whatever agreement is to be made ought to be 
 made before the construction work begins, and the Secretary ought 
 to have authority. 
 
 The Chaieman. Following the suggestion of the Senators from 
 Arkansas and Minnesota, we will let Mr. Meritt take the amendment 
 and consider and make such additions and emendations, if any, 
 that are deemed necessary. Mr. Meritt, you can make it by Saturday 
 morning, can you not? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 (Mr. Hayden was thereupon excused.) 
 
 VOTING BY COMMITTEE ON DISPUTED PEOPOSITIONS. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Mr. Chairman, I desire to make one further 
 suggestion in the interest of the convenience of the members of this 
 committee. We are all acquainted with the situation that exists in 
 the Senate and our presence will be required there a great deal of 
 the time. I think we ought to arrange now for a time, some time in 
 the future which would meet the convenience of all the members of 
 this committee, for a vote on these disputed propositions that are 
 pending here. I do not care particularly what day is fixed, but 
 some certain day ought to be fixed, and the chair ought to notify 
 the members of this committee. Some members of the committee 
 
INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 509 
 
 who are greatly interested in the matters are not in the city, and we 
 come here day after day and discuss the same propositions. 
 
 Of course we acq^uire information every time we do come, but if 
 that can be done without inconvenience to any member of the com- 
 mittee I think we will save a great deal of time. What do you think 
 about that, Senator Page? 
 
 Senator Page. I will be very glad to have that course pursued. I 
 have come here for several days expecting that we would complete 
 some work. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that we meet on Saturday morning at 10 
 o'clock for a final vote on the disputed questions in this bill. I 
 merely mention that date in order to get the sense of the committee. 
 
 The Chairman. I will state that the only items remaining to be 
 closed up and disposed of are the following: The Arizona item, 
 which will be disposed of Saturday ; the matter of appropriation for 
 expenses of the Board of Indian Commissioners, the pro rata dis- 
 tribution to the Choctaws and Chickasaws, which includes the amend- 
 ment proposed by the Senator from North Dakota, Mr. Gronna, and 
 then next is the Henry Kendall College question and the so-called 
 sectarian school question. Those questions embrace all the mooted 
 and remaining questions for the consideration of the committee. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Of course, there may be additional questions that 
 will come up on Saturday morning. I gave notice yesterday that I 
 intended to offer an amendment. 
 
 Senator Lane. And I have had my attention called to the matter 
 of that council. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. There is also the provision relating to the 
 Creek allotments. 
 
 The Chairman. That has been disposed of. Senator. 
 
 Senator Robinson. A resolution relating to that passed the House, 
 so Mr. Burke informed, or the chairman of the Committee on Indian 
 Affairs of the House, practically unanimously, or with only three 
 votes against it. I think we ought to report that resolution if we 
 have taken action on the matter, because I think the amendment is 
 subject to a point of order and some one might make the point of 
 order in the Senate. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that the Senator from Arkansas be author- 
 ized to report the resolution favorably, so that it will be the report 
 of the committee on the Senate calendar. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I think we had better let that go over until 
 next Saturday, Senator Clapp. I am quite in sympathy with giv- 
 ing that tribe as much as we can, but I am not clear that we have tlie 
 right to do it. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not care to force the matter now. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator Robinson, have you reached a conclusion as 
 to the law points in the matter that was discussed a day or two ago 
 by Mr. Mott, Mr. Thraves, and others? ^u^.i,,, +1,^ 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think there is some doubt as to whether the 
 rights are vested; but if they have, no resolution that we pass will 
 affect those rights other than that it might throw the burden of 
 proof on the claimants, and I thmkcertainlywe ought ^ take that 
 action if we can. The House committee considered the matter very 
 thoroughly and took that view of it. The House passed the resolu- 
 
510 INDIAN APPEOPEIATIONsBILL. 
 
 tion practically unanimously, so some member of the committee told 
 me, only three votes being cast against it. 
 
 Senator Owen. What resolution is that? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That is the resolution relating to the Creek 
 allotments. 
 
 Senator Owen. That will come over here? 
 
 Senator Robinson. It has come and the question is on reporting 
 this resolution. I made the suggestion that putting it in the bill 
 might not secure the legislation, because it might be subject to a 
 point of order and we would have no chance to consider it on its 
 merits. 
 
 Senator Owen. Is this identical in form with the House resolu- 
 tion? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I do not think it is. I really think this amend- 
 ment ought to be amended by the proviso that I offered here the 
 other day at the suggestion of Judge Allen. That was a proviso 
 making a cash payment of $2,080. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think that is right. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. To persons who have been enrolled and are 
 entitled to enrollment so as not to take away from them the right to 
 share in the estate. That proviso was put in the bill. I move, Mr. 
 Chairman, that the resolution be amended to that effect. 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from Arkansas moves that the reso- 
 lution be amended, and that, of course, comprehends the emendation 
 of this language which we have incorporated in the bill on page 58. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think if those people have been enrolled and 
 have established their identity that they ought to be entitled. 
 
 Senator Owen. I will read it: 
 
 That tbe unallotted lands or public domain of the Creek Nation or Tribe of 
 Indians, including any land the title to which has been or may be recovered 
 for the Creek Nation in any pending or other suit or otherwise, be, and the 
 same is hereby, withheld from allotment to members of said nation or tribe, 
 and that the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized, in his 
 discretion, to cause such land to be sold or leased for the benefit of the Creek 
 Xation or Tribe of Indians under such rules and regulations as he may pre- 
 scribe, the proceeds of such sale or lease to be paid into the Treasury of the 
 United States to the credit of said Creek Nation. 
 
 The Chairman. That is identical with the way the committee has 
 adopted the amendment to the bill. The Senator from Arkansas 
 proposes an amenddment. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The effect of the proposition is requiring the 
 persons who have been enrolled may be paid the sum of $2,080 in 
 lieu of allotment. 
 
 Senator Lane. That will apply to these four or five persons ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yes; if they are entitled to receive anything. 
 There is some question as to the identity of some of them. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on the motion of the Senator from 
 Arkansas that the resolution and the provision in the bill both be 
 amended. 
 
 Senator Owen. Nobody would have any objection to that. What 
 do you think about it, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is just this complication in paying them twice 
 the amount, that the other Indians who have heretofore been en- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. ^11 
 
 ^£/«fon''wnr''' enrolled at the last session of Congress and 
 allowed $800 will come m and demand that their amount bl doubled. 
 There were fifty-odd Creeks who were enrolled in the Indian bill at 
 the last session of Congress. 
 
 Senator Owen. They were enrolled on the ground of having only 
 equitable right and not an absolute right. s J 
 
 Senator Geonna. I suggest that we let this resolution go over until 
 Saturday. ^ 
 
 Senator Robinson. I have no objection to that at all. 
 
 SECTARIAN INDIAN SCHOOLS. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. With reference to the sectarian schools, Mr 
 Chairman, 1 put m the record the other day a letter from Mr Bros- 
 sius concerning that subject when we had it under consideration 
 I ask now, with the permission of the committee, to insert in the 
 record a letter from Mr. Carl E. Grammer, president of the Indian 
 Rights Association, and a statement or two from the records show- 
 ing the amounts which liave been contributed to those schools and 
 the per capita cost, etc. 
 
 Senator Geonna. If they are not too long, I would be very glad to 
 have you read them. 
 
 (Senator Robinson read the papers referred to, as follows:) 
 
 Indian Eights Association, 
 PhiUidcIphia, January 19, 1915. 
 
 Dear Sir : We request your serious consideration of proposed legislation affect- 
 ing the management of school funds. The Committee on Indian Affairs of the 
 House of Representatives reported the pending Indian appropriation act to the 
 House containing the following item : 
 
 " For support and maintenance of day and Industrial schools among the 
 Sioux Indians, Including the erection and repairs of school buildings, $200,000. 
 to be expended under the agreement with said Indinns in section 17 of the act 
 of JIarch 2, 1SS9, which agreement is hereby extended to and including June 
 30, 1916." 
 
 That portion of the item quoted directing that the expenditure should be 
 made under agreement of the act of March 2, 1889, was finally stricken out by 
 the House on January 9, 1915 (Congressional Record, Jan. 9, p. 1349). The 
 words referred to as having been stricken out have heretofore been incorporated 
 in the Indian appropriation acts each year since 1909, in an effort to extend for 
 a year at a time the clause In the agreement with the Sioux Indians of March 2, 
 1889, the provisions of which expired on February 10, 1910. This pretended 
 extension or renewal of the agreement was without any action l\v the Indians ; 
 uo obligation of the Government was present ; the attempted renewal was uni- 
 lateral and without consideration. The Interior Department, however, con- 
 sidered that the words eliminated from the pending act by the House which 
 were contained in the previous acts gave that department a semblance of au- 
 thority to continue the practice of permitting Indians to divert, by petitiou, 
 their pro rata shares of funds available for education from the support of the 
 regular Government schools to the aid of private or sectarian schools of their 
 choice. . . ^ ^. 
 
 In determining the pro rata shares which might be due petitionmg Indians, 
 it is understood that the annual appropriation of $200,000 in the item referred 
 to has been included with the tribal money available for schools, by whicli 
 process the pro rata shares have been immensely augmented. The diversion ot 
 Sioux funds bv this process in arriving at the pro rata share has been followed, 
 we are informed, since 1909, and we are further advised that almost the entire 
 amount of the pro rata shares of petitioninf.- Iiidi.ius of the Pine Ridge Band of 
 Sioux has been charged to the fund belonging to the Sioux which was created 
 by the act of March 2, 1889 (25 Stat., 8S8). 
 
512 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 The pro rata share of the school fund due the Pine Ridge Band of Sioux is 
 derived from the interest on the permanent fund created by the act of March 2, 
 1889 (sec. 17), and amounts approximately to $3.25, while the allowance diverted 
 for education of each child in private schools is understood to be $108. 
 
 In a letter to the Secretary of the Interior, dated February 9, 1905, President 
 Roosevelt, in a similar instance in which individual members of a Sioux band 
 had been permitted to divert many times their share of Indian funds for sec- 
 tarian schools, promulgated the rule that — 
 
 " care must be taken, of course, to see that any petition by the Indians is 
 genuine and that the money appropriated for any given school represents only 
 the pro rata proportion to which the Indians making the petition are entitled." 
 
 In the past, a large majority of the Sioux Indians in South Dakota who have 
 petitioned have objected to the use of any portion of their funds for sectarian 
 education, and philanthropic and other organizations have filed various protests 
 against such use of Indian moneys. 
 
 The funds appropriated for the Quapaws and diverted for sectarian educa- 
 tion are believed to be gratuities from the public funds of the United States, and 
 fall within the inhibition of law. 
 
 The securing of contracts by religious orders stirs up animosities among 
 Indians and should no longer be permitted. 
 
 Prior to February 10, 1910, when the obligation of the agreement of March 
 2, 1889, expired, the appropriation of $200,000 annually was styled a " treaty " 
 fund, and one which the United States Supreme Court held, in the case of 
 Quick Bear v. Leupp, in 1908 (210 U. S., 79), to be money belonging to the 
 Indians under the agreement as heretofore stated, which expired on February 
 10, 1910. It is therefore evident that since 1910 the $200,000 annually granted 
 by Congress Is a gratuity from public money of the United States. 
 
 After a careful consideration of the question of continuing the practice of 
 appropriating public money for the support of sectarian schools for the educa- 
 tion of Indian children. Congress, by the act approved June 10, 1896 (29 Stat., 
 345) adopted the following as the future policy of the Government in relation 
 thereto : 
 
 " * * * And it is hereby declared to be the settled policy of the Government 
 to hereafter make no appropriation whatever for education in any sectarian 
 school." 
 
 In the case of Quick Bear v. Leupp (supra) the United States Supreme Court, 
 after referring to the limitations upon the use of public money by the act of 
 Congress in 1896, above cited, held that — " * * * the effect of this legisla- 
 tion was to make subsequent appropriations for education mean that sectarian 
 schools were excluded in sharing in them, unless otherwise provided." 
 
 The primary consideration is the education of the Indian youth by Govern- 
 ment schools, according to the policy of the Government expressed by Congress, 
 whereby the Indians of different tribes have the benefit of a uniform system of 
 education under the direction and inspection of the Government. Everything 
 should be done to extend this system of education. Nothing should be done 
 to weaken or curtail it. The Government is fully able and has, in fact, pro- 
 vided facilities for education of Indian children ; if, per chance some particular 
 location has not proper or sufficient facilities for schooling the need can and 
 should be promptly corrected. 
 
 We trust therefore that the Commttee on Indian Affairs of the Senate will 
 not Insert in the pending act the clause referred to which was stricken out by 
 the House of Representatives. 
 
 We urge, further, that you will prohibit the further expenditure of funds 
 available for Indian education for support of private or sectarian schools wher- 
 ever located, and offer the form of an item of amendment of the pending Indian 
 appropriation act, as follows: 
 
 " That hereafter no tribal Indian funds shall be expended for the support of 
 any sectarian or private school without the previous consent of Congress " 
 Respectfully, yours, 
 
 Cabl B. Grammek, 
 President Indian Rights Association. 
 
ixi xj±a.n Ax-jrjnjjtr-JiiA±iON BILL. 
 
 513 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Ofhce or Indian Affairs, 
 Washington, January 18, 1915. 
 
 tuition of pupils in contract schools. 
 
 Mr. S. M. Brosius, 
 
 Agent Indian Rights Association, Washington, D. C. 
 Dear Mr. Brosius : In response to your letter of the 16th instant 
 I have to advise you that payments were made for tuition, etc., of 
 Indian pupils in sectarian schools during the fiscal year 1914 as 
 follows : 
 
 Agency, etc. 
 
 Osage, Okla 
 
 Choctaw Nation, Okla. 
 
 Chickasaw Nation, Okla.. 
 
 Tongue River, Mont.. 
 
 Shoshone, Wyo.. 
 Quapaw, Okla... 
 
 Keshena, Wis 
 
 Lower Brule, S. Dak. 
 
 PineRidge, S. Dak... 
 
 Rosebud, S. Dak 
 
 Crow Creek 
 
 Fund used. 
 
 Indian moneys, proceeds labor, 
 
 Osage school. 
 Indian moneys, proceeds labor, 
 
 Choctaw royalties, grazing, 
 
 etc. 
 Ind^n moneys, proceeds labor, 
 
 Chickasaw royalties, grazing, 
 
 etc. 
 Support Northern Cheyennes 
 
 and Arapahoes, Montana, 1914. 
 
 do 
 
 Support of Quapawa, education, 
 
 Oklahoma, 1914. 
 Interest on Menominee log fund . 
 Interest on Sioux fund. Lower 
 
 Brule, education. 
 Interest on Sioux fund, Pine 
 
 Ridge, education. 
 Proceeds Rosebud Reservation, 
 
 S. Dak. 
 Crow Creek 4 per cent fund 
 
 Source of fund, act of— 
 
 June 28, 1906 (34 Stats., 539). 
 
 June 28,1898 (30 Stats., 495); 
 
 July 1 , 1902 (32 Stats., 641) ; 
 
 Apr. 26, 1906 (34 Stats.,137). 
 Same as Choctaw 
 
 June 30, 1913 (38 Stats., 90) . 
 
 do 
 
 June 30, 1914 ( 
 
 3 Stats., 94) . 
 
 June 12, 1890 (26 Stats., 146). 
 Mar. 2, 1889 (25 Stats., 895) . . . 
 
 .do. 
 
 Mar. 2, 1907 (34 Stats., 1230) . 
 Mar. 2, 18S5 (28 Stats., 888) . . 
 
 Amount, 
 
 $6,839.25 
 18,019.83 
 
 8,575.33 
 
 4,135.99 
 
 10,199.68 
 972.00 
 
 15,621.63 
 242.92 
 
 22,612.65 
 
 24,364.22 
 
 4,271.42 
 
 Very truly, yours. 
 
 E. B. Meritt, 
 Assistant Commissioner. 
 
 Statement showing mission schools, tribes, per capita cost, etc., 1915. 
 
 
 Tribe. 
 
 Number 
 of peti- 
 tioners. 
 
 Total 
 shares. 
 
 With- 
 drawn 
 shares. 
 
 Number 
 
 of shares 
 
 contract 
 
 based 
 
 on— 
 
 Value of 
 share. 
 
 St. Jos^h's Industrial, Keshena, 
 Wis. 
 
 Holy Rosary, Pine Ridge, S. 
 Dak. 
 
 St. Francis, Rosebud Reserva- 
 tion, S. Dak. 
 Do 
 
 
 297 
 
 475 
 
 389 
 
 475 
 56 
 
 5 
 39 
 
 296 
 
 None. 
 
 None. 
 
 407 
 
 1,202 
 
 1,310 
 
 1,202 
 111 
 
 23 
 98 
 
 394 
 
 
 407 
 
 1,008 
 
 1,294 
 
 1,008 
 96 
 
 11 
 98 
 
 394 
 
 S50.00 
 
 PineRidge 
 
 194 
 
 16 
 
 194 
 15 
 
 12 
 
 33.53 
 
 Rosebud Sioux 
 
 Pine Ridge Sioux (20) . 
 
 33.25 
 33.53 
 
 Immaculate Conception, Crow 
 Creek Reservation, S. Dak. 
 Do 
 
 34.19 
 
 Lower Brule 
 
 34.33 
 
 St. Labre's, Ashland, Mont., 
 Tongue River Reservation. 
 
 St. Stephen's, Shoshone Reser- 
 vation, Wyo. 
 
 St. Louis, Osage Reservation, 
 OkIa.i 
 
 St. Mary's, Quapaw Reserva- 
 tion, Okla.2 
 
 Northern Cheyenne. .. 
 
 37.03 
 
 
 37.03 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 'Resolution Osage national council (76 pupils). 
 82833—15 33 
 
 2 Resolution Quapaw council (9 pupils). 
 
514 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Statement showing mission schools, triles, per capita cost, etc., 1915 — Contd. 
 
 
 Tribe. 
 
 Total 
 amount 
 
 con- 
 tracted 
 for, 1915. 
 
 Fund. 
 
 Total 
 amount 
 available. 
 
 St. Joseph's Industrial, Keshena, 
 
 Wis. 
 Holy Rosary, Pine Ridge, S. 
 
 Dak. 
 
 St. Francis, Rosebud Eeserva^ 
 tion, S. Dak. 
 
 Do 
 
 Menominee 
 
 816,200 
 24,300 
 
 29,160 
 
 2,160 
 
 3,672 
 648 
 
 3,564 
 
 10,800 
 9,375 
 
 972 
 
 Interest on Menominee log 
 fund (statute). 
 
 Interest on Sioux fund. 
 Pine Ridge (education) 
 (agreement). 
 
 Proceeds of Rosebud Res- 
 ervation, S. Dak., act 
 Mar. 2, 1907 (;statute). 
 
 Interest on Sioux fund, 
 Pine Ridge (education) 
 (agreement). 
 
 Crow Creek 4 per cent fund 
 (agreement). 
 
 Interest on Sioux fund, 
 LowerBrule(education) 
 (agreement). 
 
 Support of North ernChey- 
 
 enne and Arapahos, 
 
 Montana, 1916 (treaty). 
 
 do 
 
 S20,350.00 
 
 Pine Ridge 
 
 40,303.06 
 
 Rosebud Sioux 
 
 Pine Ridge Sioux (20). 
 
 432,582.50 
 1 40,303.06 
 
 Immaculate Conception, Crow 
 Creek Reservation, S. Dak. 
 Do 
 
 3,795.09 
 789. 59 
 
 Lower Brule 
 
 St. Labre's, Asbland, Mont., 
 Tongue River Reservation. 
 
 St. Stephen's, Shoshone Reser- 
 vation, Wyo. 
 
 St. Louis, Osage Reservation, 
 Okla.' 
 
 St. Mary's, Quapaw Reserva- 
 tion, Okla.s 
 
 Northern Cheyenne. . . 
 
 3,628.94 
 
 14,589.82 
 9, 376. 00 
 
 
 Indian money, proceeds 
 of labor, Osage school, 
 1915 (statute). 
 
 Support of Quapaws, edu- 
 cation, 1915 (treaty). 
 
 Quapaw 
 
 1,000.00 
 
 
 Total 
 
 100,861 
 
 526,414.00 
 
 
 
 
 1 The contract for St. Francis School for 20 Pine Ridge Sioux pupils was made under the same petition 
 and from the same fund as that for the Holy Rosary Mission School, Pine Ridge, S. Dak. 
 * Resolution Osage national council (75 pupils). 
 ' Resolution Quapaw council (9 pupils). 
 
 The Chairman. Let me ask this question: Is there a contention 
 here that where the Indians petition, in good faith, the Government 
 or the Bureau of Indian Affairs that their funds be used to main- 
 tain a school of a particular religious denomination, that the Govern- 
 ment should disregard that and spend the Indians' money contrary 
 to their own view? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Yes; this statement contends that the moneys 
 appropriated for education of the Indians ought to be spent for 
 Government schools. 
 
 The Chairkan. Let me ask this question : As to the Indian funds, 
 is there not a distinction ? Suppose an Indian tribe should petition, 
 stating that they wished a sectarian school maintained out of their 
 (Indian) money, should we, in spite of their petition, urge in good 
 faith and presented to us and to the Indian Commissioner, take 
 their funds and maintain a school different from the one to which 
 th^ desired to go? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The proposition is that the Government has 
 provided a system of education in Government schools, and that 
 we ought not to be maintaining parochial or sectarian schools. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that the committee adjourn until Saturday. 
 
 (Thereupon the committee adjourned until Saturday, January 30, 
 at 10 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 1915. 
 
 CojoiiTTEE ON Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Robinson, Owen, Clanp, 
 Page, Gronna, Townsend, and Myers. 
 
 enlargement and construction of LE CLAIR AND RIVERTON 
 ditches IRRIGATION OF INDIAN ALLOTMENTS, WIND RIVER RES- 
 ERVATION, WTO. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK W. MONDELL, A REPEESENTA- 
 TIVE FROM WYOMING. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Mondell is present and has a statement that 
 he desires to make to the committee. 
 
 Mr. MoNDELL. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I desire to call your 
 attention to an amendment proposed by Senator Warren, on page 85 
 of the print of the bill, as it is before you, as follows: 
 
 For extension, enlargement, and construction of the Le Clair and Riverton ditches 
 for the irrigation of Indian allotments on the north side of the Big Wind River, Wind 
 River Reservation, Wyoming, reimbursable as provided by sectLon one of the act of 
 August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen, $45,000. 
 
 That is on page 85 of the committee print of the bill at the bottom 
 and on page 86. The Indian Office applied some years ago for the 
 irrigation of certain Indian allotments on Wind River for irrigating 
 what is known as the Lc Clair ditch. This ditch was completed to 
 cover about 3,500 acres of land. Quite a number of allotments were 
 made along the Big Wind River below the Le Clair ditch. And the 
 Indian Office contemplated the extension of the regular ditch, and its 
 necessary enlargement, for the purpose of irrigating these additional 
 allotments, amounting to 7,500 acres. The proposed extension of 
 the Indian ditch is a large acreage of ceded land owned by white set- 
 tlers which they desire to irrigate, and which could be best u-rigated 
 by the extension of 'he regular ditch. I think it was estimated that 
 it would cost the Indian Office $80,000 to extend and enlarge the Le 
 Clair ditch to the extent necessary for the irrigation of the Indian 
 lands, but it developed that by and through cooperation with the 
 settlers the same enlargement and extension could be secured by the 
 expenditure of $45,000. That arises from the fact that the settlers 
 in irrigating their own lands did so by the enlargement and extension 
 of the Le Clair ditch, and they are willing to join with the Government 
 in the enlargement and extension and relieve the Government ot the 
 
 515 
 
516 INDIAN APPKOPHIATION BILL. 
 
 expenditure of about $35,000 because of the fact that they lately 
 benefit by the general work. The Commissioner of Indian Atiairs 
 has reported on the bill and has reported it as entirely feasible, so far 
 as the project is concerned, but I think he declines to give it his abso- 
 lute unqualified recommendation owing to the condition of the Treas- 
 ury, or some such reason as that. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is the suggestion they make. , ., , 
 
 Mr. MoNnF.LL. However, the commissioner suggests that if the 
 item is improved some minor amendments be made. In that con- 
 nection let me sav that it is highly important that if this work is to 
 be done at all, the appropriation should be .made at this time owing 
 to the fact that the settlers have aheady organized their force for 
 raising the necessary funds for the extension and enlargement and 
 further operation of the ditch. They have 100 teams there at work 
 or all ready to go to work. It is highly important to them that 
 their land be irrigated this spring. 
 
 I doubt if this cooperative arrangement could be as satisfactorily 
 made at any time in the future as it is now. Ultimately the Indian 
 Office must expend the necessary amount of money for the irrigation 
 of these Indian allotments or, as I said some time ago, it is estimated 
 it would cost $80,000 if the Indian Office were to do it, or extend 
 the settlers aid or cooperation. So that by undertaking this work 
 in cooperation we save $35,000. The members of the committee 
 win reahze that this construction is very cheap, per acre. An 
 investment of $35,000 will bring under irrigation between six and 
 seven thousand acies of land. There are very few places in the 
 work where land can be irrigated at any s;ich price as that. That 
 does not, of course, include all the laterals that would be run onto 
 the land because they would be built by the Indians themselves. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Would you suggest any amendment to the amend- 
 ment as incorporated by the committee? 
 
 Mr. IMoNDELL. There is no objection to the amendment proposed 
 by the Indian Office, as it is self-explanatory. After the word 
 "allotments," insert the words, "and lands in private ownership," 
 and add after the provision, "to be immediately available and to 
 remain available untU expended." 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is after the word "allotments" in line 25, 
 page 85, of the last committee print, and after the figures "$45,000" 
 on page 86. 
 
 Mr. MoNDELL. I would suggest that the committee adopt the 
 amendment agreed to unless there is some objection made to it. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I want to ask you who owns the land you refer 
 to, these 6,000 acres? 
 Mr. MoNDELL. Those are Indian allotments. 
 Senator Gronna. Are they held by the Indians now ? 
 Mr. MoNDELL. Yes; they are held by the Indians now. 
 Senator Gronna. It is all Indian land ? 
 
 Mr. Mondell. It is all Indian land down to a point where the 
 cooperation begins, and from the point where the cooperative work 
 begins there are Indian lands and lands owned by white settlers. 
 
 Senator Clark of Wyoming. The Secretary says there are 7,900 
 acres of Indian land and 7,500 acres of privately owned land. 
 
 Mr. Mondell. There is about an equal acreage for each. The 
 settlers will expend much more than the Indian Office, that is on 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 517 
 
 extensions to the ditch because as you go down lower the work is 
 heavier. But the Indian Of&ce has estimated that to carry the ditch 
 down there to a point where it will be necessary to irrigate all this 
 Indian land would cost $80,000. They widen the ditch to a point 
 where cooperation begins and then they contribute S5,000 to the 
 cooperation below. It would be necessary for the Indian Office to 
 spend $45,000 for the widened ditch. 
 
 Senator Gronna. If a ditch were held, is there sufficient water 
 supply to irrigate all the land ? 
 
 Mr. MoNDELL. The water supply is unlimited. The Big Wind 
 River is the best stream in all the Northwest with respect to the 
 quahty of water it carries which has not been appropriated. As a 
 matter of fact, the Indian Office some years ago appropriated water 
 in this river for the irrigation of this sftme tributary land, and there 
 is an unlimited supply of water. The lands are excellent lands and 
 it is in a country that is already to a considerable extent irrigated 
 and has produced excellent crops. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How long does the title of the Government 
 to the appropriated water last ? 
 
 Mr. MoNDELL. Five years, under our law, during which time they 
 are supposed to be continuously developed. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How long ago were they developed ? 
 
 Mr. Mondell. There are other appropriations under the La Claire 
 ditch, the main one, the first one, I think was made last spring. One 
 was made three or four years ago. 
 
 Senator Townsend. So that they have only two years yet? 
 
 Mr. Mondell. There would be a year or two years before the 
 water rights, I think, would lapse. 
 
 Senator Townsend. WiU there be any disposition on the part of 
 the State of Wyoming to foreclose on their rights? 
 
 Mr Mondell. No, sir; but the Senator realizes that this matter 
 of cooperation has been before the local people for ciuite a long time 
 It has not been before the Indian Office here for a long time, but it 
 has been brewing out there for a long time, and the settlers imagined 
 
 fact, are now at work. Of course they 
 the La Claire ditch and get a Mttle water and wait along until the 
 Indian Office is compeUed to expend this $80,000; but by domg the 
 work now, by cooperation with them they could save the difference 
 between the 'i80,000 that is the estimated '^^' fJ^%'fiT'''oli 
 the Indian ditch and $35,000. The settler f 1^.^^°^^ fJ^^^J^^^^ 
 done now, to do the work below the pomt where they would ]om 
 
 "^LtoFGroNNA* How much Indian land is there below the point 
 
 of cooperation ? 
 
 Mr. Mondell. About 7,500 acres. , 
 
 Senator Townsend. I though that was above. That is ail below, 
 
 '' Mr. Mondell. No; there are about 2,500 acres of Indian lands 
 
 ^Senator Townsend. Most of it is above? 
 Mr. Mondell. Most of it is above. water? 
 
 Senator Townsend. That is already furnished with water . 
 
518 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr MoNDELL. That is alreadv furnished with water, but for us to 
 irrigate aU those lands, I wiU say to the Senator, it would be neces- 
 sary to enlarge the La Claire ditch because the La Claire ditch was 
 originally intended to irrigate about 3,000 acres of land, and when it 
 was extended to irrigate the other lands, it was not enlarged, so it is 
 necessary for us to enlarge the La Claire ditch for the irrigation of the 
 lands already under the ditch. Then there are about 2,500 acres of 
 land, as shown on the map, for which the Indian Office would need 
 an estimate of $5,000 for irrigation, a sum ridiculously small. 
 
 Sentaor Townsend. Is that 2,500 acres of land allotted to the 
 Indians ? 
 
 Mr. MoNDELL. Some of this acreage is among the first allotments on 
 
 the reservation. . 
 
 Senator Townsend. Has it been occupied by_ the Indians? 
 
 Mr. MoNDELL. In a small way; they are trying to irrigate a little 
 by several water ditches on the river. They are getting water in that 
 way. A little water was gotten on one of these tracts out of a larger 
 ditch some years ago, but the water rights on that ditch are wor h |45 
 an acre and the Indians can not afford to buy water rights from a ditch 
 of that kind. They could not secure water from that ditch. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Is it your contention that if this provision is 
 mads the Indian allottees wiU actually take possession of the land and 
 irrigate it ? 
 
 Mr. MoNDELL. I do not know that they will in all cases. The 
 presumption is they will in a majority of cases. Of course, there 
 may be cases in which these allottees wiU own no more land than 
 they can farm o>- can appropriate. I think it is true in the case 
 of one or two of these allotments, perhaps, that in the main the 
 Indians on this reservation are on their allotments, so far as they 
 have water to irrigate their allotments. Most of the irrigated Indian 
 lands are on the other side of the river. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Your contention is that this is a present 
 necessity for the Indians, but it is a project that must be ultimately 
 irrigated ? 
 
 Mr. MoNDELL. Of course, it is not an absolute necessity. Still I 
 should say it was one of those things that ought to be done, leaving 
 out of consideration the matter of saving. It is a thing that ought 
 to be done in the near future in order to give all of these lower acre- 
 ages water rights. The sooner these lands are furnished with water 
 the sooner the Indians can avail themselves of their lands and get 
 them under cultivation. At the present time they are only able to 
 utilize a few acres near the river where they can dig out small ditches. 
 But in addition to that it is a fact' that by cooperation we save, 
 according to the estimates of the Indian Office, in the course of 
 construction, $35,000, and the investment is very small compared 
 with the average cost of reclamation in that country. 
 
 Senator Townsend. On 2,500 acres of allotted land down there, 
 how many allottees are there ? 
 
 Mr. MoNDELL. I do not know as to that. The allotments are 
 made in 80-acre tracts. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How much acreage of land below the cooper- 
 ating point is owned by white men ? 
 
 Mr. Mondell. How much below ? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 519 
 
 Senator Townsend. You called it the cooperating point— the pomt 
 at which you propose the Government or the Intlian Office shaU 
 cooperate m the construction of the ditch 1 
 
 Senator Clakk of Wyoming. I am inclined to think the letter 
 gives that. 
 
 Mr MoxDELL. There are below the point of cooperation do^vn to 
 the ditch, ^500 acres of land owned by settlers, and about 7,900 
 acres ot land owned by the Indians and they are proposing to only 
 use $5,000 below the point of cooperation, and to enkrge the ditch 
 above. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Are there any further questions. Senator Townsend ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. Xo. I regret I was not in when you com- 
 menced, Mr. Mondell. 
 
 Mr. Mondell. If the chairman will permit me, I shall be glad to 
 repeat. The Indian Department first appropriated the money for 
 the irrigation of about 2,500 acres of land. Later allotments were 
 made below to the extent of about 6,000 acres, necessitating the 
 extension of the ditch which was intended to cover part of these 
 lands, but it was later enlarged so that the ditch does not adequately 
 cover the Indian lands as far as it runs. In order to irrigate the 
 Indian lands lying below it wiU be necessary to have an expenditure 
 by the Indian Office, according to estimates, of 180,000. But the 
 settlers living below that occupied land, being anxious to irrigate their 
 lands and get them under cultivation quickly, have raised the neces- 
 sary money for cooperation. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How much do they propose to contribute ? 
 
 Mr. Mondell. Well, I sujrpose the Indian Office would put on its 
 force. Most of the Indian irrigation work on these reservations is 
 <ione by the Indians themselves. I suppose the Indian Office will 
 employ its force and make a certain expenditure below or along the 
 line of cooperation, as they can arrange among themselves. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What is the white man goiug to do; what is 
 his part of the cooperative scheme ? 
 
 Mr. Mondell. As I said a moment ago, they have already begun 
 there with a force of 100 teams, that they have at work now on the 
 lower end of the ditch at this time. The extension of this cooperative 
 work there has already been agreed upon. They have raised, as I 
 understand it, ia the vicinity of $50,000 for their share of the work 
 and expect to spend- $70,000. 
 
 Senator Clark of Wyoming. I would say that the Indian Oflfice 
 has been investigatiug this matter for some time and has had its 
 representative out there and he has conferred with the settlers and 
 the plan of cooperation receives the approval of the office. I do not 
 know the details. 
 
 Mr. Mondell. There is no doubt about that. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Is there any objection to the adoption of the 
 
 amendment? , , j. ^n o j. * 
 
 Mr. Mondell. I would like to have the report of the Secretary of 
 
 the Interior on this item go into the record. , ,, ,, ^ .„ ^ • . 
 Senator Clapp. It is proposed after the word aUotment to msert 
 
 the words "and land in private ownership," and to add at the end 
 
 of the paragraph the words, "to be immediately available and to 
 
 remain avaflable until expended." 
 
 (Without objection the amendment was agreed to.j 
 
520 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 (The report of the Secretary of the Interior referred to is as follows:) 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, February t, 1915. 
 
 My Dear Senator: laminreceiptbyyourreferenceof January 26, 1915, of a copy 
 of an amendment intended to be proposed by Mr. Warren to the bill (H. R. 20150) mat- 
 ing appropriations for the current and contingent expenses of the Bureau of Indian 
 Affairs, etc., providing tor an appropriation of §45,000 for the extension, enlargement, 
 and construction of the Le Clair and Riverton ditches for the irrigation of Indian allot- 
 ments on the "Wind River Reservation, Wyo. 
 
 This project has been the subject of investigation and report by an engineer in the 
 Ind ian Irrigation Service. Briefly stated, the work contemplated includes the enlarge- 
 ment of an existing Indian ditch called the Le Clair ditch, from its head gate to its 
 present terminus, about 10 miles southeast therefrom, and the construction of a new 
 ditch, to be known as the Riverton No. 2 ditch, from that point onward, to cover land 
 in private ownership as well as some Indian allotments. The total area of Indian 
 allotments to be served appears to be about 7,900 acres, and the area of land in private 
 ownersip which it will benefit is approximatelj' 7,500 acres. 
 
 The location is favorable tor economical construction, ana the value of the land 
 when furnished with water for irrigation would warrant the construction, even at a 
 cost much in excess of that estimatea for the project under discussion. It would 
 seem to be a meritorious projeci. and one in which the Indians would be benefited. 
 
 However, in view of the apparent necessity tor making appropriations only for such 
 objects as appear to be absolutely necessary, and in view of the fact that estimates tor 
 other work, which the Indian Office advises me it coiLsidered very important, having 
 been omitted in preparing the estimates tor the Indian bill, I am of the opinion that 
 this item is one that may be deterred without serious detriment to the pubhc interests. 
 
 However, should it be decided by Congress that an appropriation as proposed can 
 be made, it is suggested that the amendment include the following changes: Line 3, 
 after the word "allotments" insert "and land in private ownership"; line 6, add "to 
 be immediately available and to remain available until expenaed." 
 
 It is understood that the propertj^ owners who will be benefited by the part of 
 this ditch beyond the present terminus of the Le Clair ditch are now engaged in 
 active work of construction, and if an appropriation be made, it would be desirable 
 that the Government proceed with its part of the work as early as may be possible. 
 Cordially, yours, 
 
 Franklin K. Lane. 
 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 GILA RIVER RESERVATION — IRRIGATION. 
 
 An amendment was directed to be inserted on page 18 of the 
 latest committee draft of the bill after line 18, as follows: 
 
 For beginning the construction of a dam and necessary controlling works tor diverting 
 water from the Gila River at a site above Florence, Arizona" tor the irrigation of Indian 
 land and allotments on the Gila River Indian Reservation and private lands in Pinal 
 County, Arizona, as estimated by the Board of Engmeer Officers of the United States 
 Army in paragraph one hundred and thirty-eight of its report to the Secretary of 
 y ar, of February- fourteenth, nineteen hundred and fourteen (House Document 
 Numbered seven hundred and ninety-one) $75,000, to remain available until expended, 
 reimbursable as Congress may hereafter provide, the total cost not to exceed 5175,000: 
 Provided, That before beginning construction the Secretary of the Interior shall 
 prescribe such rules and regulations and take such other action as in his opinion may 
 be proper and necessary tor the purpose of securing for the Indians of the Gila River 
 Reservation the benefits from such work to which they are legally and equitably 
 entitled, and to enable the United States to control the diversion and distribution of 
 water by said works and canals receiving water diverted thereby; and he may require 
 of the owners of other lands to be benefited thereby agreements for the payment of 
 the charges which he is hereby authorized to fix for diversion of water by said dam. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 521 
 
 PURCHASE OF LAND FOR HOMELESS INDIANS IN CALIFORNIA. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN E. RAKER, A REPRESENTATIVE 
 IN CONGRESS FROM CALIFORNIA. 
 
 Mr. Raker On page 19 of the bill there is a provision for the 
 purchase of lands for homeless Indians in California, including 
 unprovements thereon, for the use and occupation of said Indians 
 110,000, to be immediately available and to remain available until 
 expended, said funds to be expended under such regulation as the 
 Secretarj^ may prescribe. 
 
 I ^\-ould hke to have Mr. Meritt make a statement regarding that 
 matter. 
 
 The Chairjian. What item do you want to change ? 
 
 Mr. Eaker. I want the item increased from $10,000 to $30,000. 
 It IS for the purchase of lands for homeless Indians in CaUfornia and 
 for the use and occupancy by said Indians, to be immediately avail- 
 able and to remain available until expended, etc. While I have some 
 data and memoranda on the subject, I think it would be preferable 
 if the committee would hear Mr. Meritt make a statement with 
 regard to the matter. 
 
 Mr. ^Ieritt. Mr. Chairman, the department has during the last few- 
 years been endeavoring to acquire sufficient land to furnish the Indians 
 of California with homes. This has entailed a great deal of work 
 because the appropriations have been limited and we reahze that we 
 can not at one time get all the funds necessary to buy land for the 
 homeless Indians in California. Our records show that there are 
 about 2,000 Indians in California who have not been supphed with 
 land. The department is exceedingly anxious to get lands of their 
 own for these Indians at the earHest possible date. Land in California 
 is increasing in value. I believe it would be a good business proposi- 
 tion for the Government to make such appropiiation, if the committee 
 feels it can do so at this time, for these Indians because if we were to 
 wait two or three years longer we would have to pay more for those 
 lands than we would have to pay at this time. We estimated for an 
 appropriation of $10,000. I feel that we could use $50,000 to advan- 
 tage in buying lands for homeless Cahfornia Indians. 
 
 Mr. Raker. You did not make any estimates for the lands ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Oh, yes; we estimated $10,000, but the House left out 
 all new items and we would be glad indeed to have the $30,000 esti- 
 mated for by Representative Raker. 
 
 Senator Townsend. We appropriated $10,000 last year? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What did you do with that? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is bemg expended for lands for the homeless 
 Indians of Cahfornia. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Has it not been expended as yet ? 
 
 Mr. MERriT. The Indian appropriation bill did not become effective 
 until the 1st of August, but we have a special agent going over the 
 matter and we shall expend that money before the close ot the fiscal 
 
 Senator Townsend. All vou estimated was $10,000 ? 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; aU we estimated was $10,000. We would 
 like to have more money for this work. 
 
522 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I have no doubt about that. How about 
 the $10,000 not yet expended? 
 
 Mr Meritt. That is in process of being expended now and we 
 are getting options on available lands, and it would be difficult to 
 say just how much of that remains unexpended. I think that we 
 will have expended all of it before the close of the present fiscal year 
 and there will then remain probably 1,500 Indians m California 
 
 without land. ,. i ■, jn t J.^ 
 
 Senator Gronna. I find a justification for that on page 143 ot the 
 House hearings. It states that you have "expended approximately 
 $145,000 in purchasing 6,793.51 acres of land." 
 
 Mr. Eaker. That is, from the beginning up to date ? 
 
 Senator Page. How much are you compelled to pay per acre for 
 those lands. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We will have to pay more for lands in Cahfornia 
 in the future than we have in the past. The lands are going up all 
 the time. We will have to pay between $30 and $40 an acre in order 
 to get suitable lands for the Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. Aie there lands there that will be suitable for the 
 Indians for irrigation that you can obtain? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It would be better if we could obtain irrigated lands. 
 The best lands are irrigable. 
 
 Senator Page. What are those irrigated lands worth ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They are very high, but we will try to g-et lands 
 suitable for the Indians at a reasonable price. We have set out a 
 detailed statement regarding the California Indians and have fur- 
 nished a great deal of statistical information on this subject, and I 
 invite the attention of the committee to pages 130 to 145 of the 
 House hearings for this detailed information regarding the California 
 Indians. 
 
 Mr. Raker. Will the committee hear Mr. Church for just a 
 moment ? 
 
 The Chairman. The committee will hear Mr. Church. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. DENVER S. CHURCH, A REPRESENTA- 
 TIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. 
 
 Mr. Church. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I did not anticipate 
 appearing before you this morning, and am rather surprised to be 
 called upon to make a statement. I can say, however, that there are 
 quite a number of homeless Indians in my district. They inhabit 
 the lower reaches of the Sierra Nevada Mountains, and they are 
 shifted from one place to another. They seem to be driven from 
 pillar to post. Not owning the land, of course, they are continually 
 driven off the land that they are located on just as rapidly as they 
 have located there. It is reaUy pitiable to see the deprivations which 
 some of them have to undergo. They have been driven way back ia 
 the mountains where no white man would have located or could 
 possibly live. They simply go back to these squalid and out-of-the- 
 way and worthless and forbidden places because they can not get a 
 foothold or home anywhere else. I only speak of that particular 
 section along the eastern foothills of the San Joaquin Valley. I am 
 sure there are quite a number of Indians, several hundred at the 
 least, in that section of the country who from every standpoint of 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 523 
 
 justice and humanity ought to liavo a place winch they can call 
 their home. Of course they never can purchase any place out of 
 their own money because they do not have the knack of accumulat- 
 ing money. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Those Indians are all over the State, are they not ? 
 
 Mr. Chltkch. Yes, sir; they are all over the State of California. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Where are they living now, and where is this 
 land that is intended to be purchased east of the foothills of the Sierra 
 Nevada Mountains ? 
 
 _ Mr. Rakee. It is in a mountainous country. The Indians prefer to 
 live in the mountains. In fact, they never go down to the valleys 
 except to pick fruit and do odd jobs. They go down in the picking 
 season. 
 
 Senator Groxna. Do you believe it would be advisable to buy 
 lands for the Indians up in the mountains or around in different places ? 
 
 Mr. Eakee. Yes; around in different places all over the State of 
 California. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Of course it would not advance in price as rapidly 
 in the mountains as in the lowlands ? 
 
 Mr. Rakee. There are lands in the mountains that you could have 
 
 fotten five years ago for S5 an acre, that you can not get for $100 now. 
 'hey are putting in pear orchards and apple orchards up there. 
 
 Senator Geonna. And a great many of those tracts are nothing but 
 slate and- rock? 
 
 Mr. Rakee. Some of the most valuable land we have to-day is in 
 .the foothills. You have not seen it in the last 15 years. It has 
 cleared off of brush and they are putting it into trees and all other 
 products. That land is running in the valley at from $100 to $500 
 per acre. 
 
 Senator Townsend. You do not propose to buy that for the 
 Indians ? 
 
 Mr. Rakee. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. May I ask how many Indians you have in Califor- 
 nia — not citizens — that you generally propose to benefit ? 
 
 Mr. Rakee. Well, that is a little complicated question. As to those 
 who are taxpayers, who are assessed, who own real estate, it is 
 impossible to say, but some are entitled to vote— about 2 per cent, I 
 think, of the Indians in California. There are 20,000 Indians m the 
 
 Senator Page. Have you not been gradually absorbing these 
 Indians into citizenship ? Why can not that be done ? 
 
 Mr. Rakee. I do not see why it could not be done. Those people 
 have a right to citizenship and could have it under our State law and 
 could vote and participate in all the offices of life. But as I have 
 said, they do not accumulate, although they are making good citi- 
 zens. I feel that they are entitled, in view of the way they have been 
 treated, to a Httle home where they can provide for a family of one or 
 two. That would be my way of settling the matter for theni pro- 
 vidhig them with teachers and that wiU give splendid results Noth- 
 ing could be better than to give each Indian a smaU lot and locate 
 him there and that can be done. They wiU want their schools and 
 the State will provide $500,000 for educational purposes. 
 
 Senator Page. You did not tell me how many there are. 
 
524 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There are between 1,800 to 2,00 homeless Indians in 
 CaUfornia. 
 
 Senator Page. I think that would be little money for 2,000. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They are scattered all over the State. That is what 
 I have stated in this justification. 
 
 Mi. Eaker. I have a statement from the commissioner that there 
 are 20,000 in the State, and there are 2,000 not provided for. In this 
 estimate there is no mention of Plumas County or Modoc County, 
 with which I am famihar. I know there are at least 600 Indians ui 
 Plumas County, and I have at least 20 letters on file asking for an 
 appropriation for these Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. That land that you speak of, that in times past 
 was not worth much, has now become valuable, you say? 
 
 Mr. Kaker. Yes; very valuable. 
 
 Senator Page. It is used chiefly as fruit land ? 
 
 Mr. Eaker. Fruit land, alfalfa land, and grain land. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Is it intended to buy lands wliere these Indians 
 can live together, or is it proposed to buy it in scattered tracts ? 
 
 Mr. Kaker. There is a difference of opinion. Last fall we had a 
 meeting of the farmers and the business men of our county, some 
 three hundred present, with the superintendent of the Indian School 
 at Bidwell, and the matter was discussed among the farmers, the 
 superintendent, and those interested in it, and it seemed to be the 
 concensus of opinion — that is, just in this one county; the mea 
 were gathered together from all over that county — that if these 
 Indians were placed very closely together, each having a little home 
 of his own and a little tract of land, where some one could give them 
 his time and assisting them in their farming, we would get better 
 results for the Indians, pay less money to provide for them, and 
 would really benefit them in a social way, and in a school way, and 
 make them to a great extent self-supporting. 
 
 The Chairman. We will next hear from Representative Kent of 
 California. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. WIIIIAM KENT, A REPRESENTATIVE 
 IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. 
 
 Mr. Kent. The Indians in California are a very gentle, industrious 
 people. They have never been fighting Indians, biit have been a 
 very simple, gentle folk. They have been pretty badly used, and 
 they are pretty well exterminated. I saw by the report that there 
 are some 807 in my district. These Indians are largely engaged at 
 the present time in the fisheries —that is, the salmon fisheries at the 
 North— in digging clams, and doing odd jobs of that kind around 
 the bays near San Francisco. They also are employed, as Mr. Eaker 
 has said, as laborers in hop picking and cutting hay, and other occu- 
 pations of that sort. 
 
 I am not at all familiar with the plan of giving these Indians allot- 
 ments of land. This has just come before me as new business. I 
 have the greatest sympathy with these Indians. I know there are a 
 good many of them, and I believe they are the kind of people who 
 will make good if they are given a chance. I am in favor of giving 
 them all the chance we can. I would like to yield my time to the 
 Eev. Mr. CoUett to make a statement, as he has made an expert 
 study of this matter and can give you more information than I can. 
 
 The Chairman. Then we wUl hear from the Eev. Mr. Collett. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 525 
 
 STATEMENT OF REV. F. G. COLIETT. 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. Mr. Chairraan ani vSenators, I am very glad of the 
 opportunity of speakinj in behalf of the California Indians. I think 
 their con lition can be tersely summed up in the words of Chief Cum- 
 mings, who had nine times built different homes only to be evicted 
 by nine different white settlers, that wherever the Indians have not 
 secure homes they are constantly being evicted. 
 
 I find that where the Government has purchased lands for them the 
 Indians are making notable progress along industrial, social, and 
 educational lines. For wherever we have a group of Indian people, 
 if there are 15 children of school age in that community, the State is 
 wilhng to help provide them with a school and to appropriate $600 the 
 first year. And where the Indians are living near enough to a white 
 school an effort is being made on the part of the State Commissioner 
 of Education to get them into those white schools. 
 
 I beheve if the Indians are provided shortly with sufficient lands 
 for homes the Indian problem will be solved in a comparatively few 
 years. But the Indians of California are actually in a very destitute 
 condition, and they will not improve their property or build homes. 
 Neither can we expect them to imder the existing circumstances until 
 they have been provided with a sufficient amount to build that home 
 on, a portion of land in which they are secure and free from the fear 
 of eviction. I should like very much to see the Indians of California 
 furnished with sufficient lands for homes just as speedily as possible. 
 
 Senator Geonna. How would you buy this land ? Would you 
 recommend that it be bought in a body or that it be bought in tracts 
 scattered all over the different counties in the State ? 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. In scattered tracts where the Indians will have just 
 a sufficient amount of land for that group of Indians. I find that the 
 Indians are scattered in 250-odd bands throughout the State. If we 
 can provide for them locally, provide them with educational oppor- 
 tunities right where they are, they will be assimilated much quicker, 
 and that will mean more for the solution of the Indian problem than 
 anything else, because it will give them the opportunity of becoming 
 self-supporting; it will make them independent, and still not cause 
 them to be dependents as so often they have been made dependents 
 by reservations and other systems that have prevailed heretofore. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I take it that you are acquainted with the con- 
 dition of these Indians now ? 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. I have been working .among them for four years 
 constantly. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Do they live by farming « Have they any 
 knowledge or experience in farming now ? . , .-u t 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. They are considered the best workmen ttiat ttie farm- 
 ers can employ in all the counties throughout the State. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do they maintain tribal relations with any 
 Indians ? 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. Not any that I know of. n .. j i j o 
 
 Senator Townsend. Have any of them ever been allotted land ( 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. Yes, quite a goodly number have received land 
 ah-eady, and where they have received land notable progress has been 
 made. 
 
526 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Townsend. You are talking now of Indians who have not 
 been allotted ? 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. Yes. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Are you asking that Indians who have been 
 allotted land, and who have lost it, shall be reallotted or given lands? 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. The Indians who have been allotted land have never 
 lost it because only within the last eight years has the effort been 
 made to provide them with land, and the patent to that first land has 
 not jet issued. 
 
 Senator Page. May I ask a question? Have you discovered any 
 disposition anyw-here to make it unpleasant for the Indian to attend 
 these white schools ? 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. I did not understand the question. Senator. 
 
 Senator Page. I say, have you discovered anywhere a disposition 
 on the part of the white people to prevent the Indians from enjoying 
 the benefits of these public schools ? 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. I have in a few cases, principally because they were 
 not taxpayers, but that difficulty has been overcome by the Indian 
 Office paying a small tuition for their education in the public schools. 
 
 Senator Page. The race question does not enter into it at all? 
 
 Mr. CoLLETT. Well, more or less it has, but that is very easily over- 
 come by a httle assistance temporarily from the department in get- 
 ting them estabhshed in a school. 
 
 Mr. Eaker. Senator Works is here, and I should like to hear from 
 him in favor of this matter. 
 
 Senator Works. I did not come up here to present the matter, 
 because I know little about it. 
 
 Mr. Rakee.. Congressman Knowland, from California, is also here. 
 
 Mr. Knowland. I do not desire to take up any of the time of the 
 committee. I think the matter has been gone into quite thoroughly. 
 Probably I have less Indians in my district than in any other Cali- 
 fornia district. I merely desire to say generally that I hope the com- 
 mittee will take action upon this matter. Being from California, I 
 feel that our Indians have not been treated as well as they might be, 
 and that it would be for their benefit if this appropriation could he 
 made. 
 
 Senator Works. I should not want the committee to understand 
 that because I am not disposed to say anything about this matter as 
 to the facts I am not interested in it, because I know in a general way 
 that the Indians in California need to be taken care of. I only meant 
 to say that I was not familiar -vYith the facts, and that there are others 
 here who are. I came here because I was interested and hoped the 
 committee would give this matter careful attention, and do what it 
 thinks to be right. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you thiak that need is a need which your own 
 State ought not to provide for ? 
 
 Senator Works. I see no reason why our State should take care of 
 it. It is a national affair, and the National Government should take 
 care of it. The State has always been ready and willing to do what 
 it can in the way of schoohng, and things of that kind, but this is a 
 matter, it seems to me, that the National Govermnent should deal 
 with. It strikes me that way, at least. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Are these Indians citizens of your State, 
 Senator ? 
 
IJNDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 527 
 
 Senator Works. Some of them are. I do not Imow how many 
 but I presume Mr. CoUett would know about that. Do you know' 
 Mr. Collett, how many of them are citizens of the State ? ' 
 
 Ml-. Collett. No; I do not know. A very small percentage, how- 
 ever, are citizens. None of these who have not had lands allotted to 
 them are citizens to-day, so far as I know. 
 
 Senator Works. I was quite sure it was only a small part of them . 
 
 Mr. Raker. Just one matter. I did not call the attention of the 
 committee to this. A Senator asked a question in regard to the 
 Indians farming. I have seen a number of people employ them, give 
 them Mttle instructions, and in garden work, and aQ matters of that 
 kind. After that instruction is given them you can turn them loose, 
 and the Indian will make a good garden and attend to it in an up-to- 
 date way. He is in shape then to make a good living for himself. 
 
 Senator Page. If we had that kind of Indians in Vermont, we 
 would take care of them. We would say that kind of an Indian was 
 a fair, average man. 
 
 Mr. Raker. I find from those I am familiar with — and it has just 
 happened that that has been sort of extensive — where you give them 
 an opportunity, give them a little encouragement, keep the booze from 
 them, you get splendid efforts and splendid results. 
 
 There is just one thing that I wish to call to your attention, which 
 is on record in the department, and that is this: ]\Iany years ago 
 there were a number of treaties entered into by the Government and 
 these Indians in California, by which they were to have in the neigh- 
 borhood of 5,500,000 acres of "land and also something like $2,500,000 
 in money. Those figures were concurred in by practically all of the 
 Indians. I have not the treaties with me. t had a copy of them, 
 and gathered that matter together, but I find I did not bring it here 
 this morning. I have a general memorandum, however, which covers 
 it. When those treaties were brought up they were never ratified. 
 The Indians were satisfied. They have carried out all the conditions 
 of those agreements. They have ceded their rights to the United 
 States. They have kept the peace. They have accepted the sov- 
 ereignty of the United States, and they have accepted all the other 
 conditions, and have tried, to make good. The Government did not 
 accept those treaties. They were not confirmed, as is shown. Some 
 were afraid the Indians would get some lands, and therefore the 
 matter was passed over. While many others were provided for 
 these Indians in California have not been, as it was intended should 
 be done. , , , , , , 
 
 Senator Page. I am rather surprised that there has not been a 
 bm introduced to take $10,000,000 or $15,000,000 from the Federal 
 Treasury to take care of those Indians because of the failure to carry 
 out the treaty. ^ . , , , „ ,n 
 
 Senator Gronna. If you will permit me, I wish to read from the 
 House hearings right in connection with that. 
 
 Mr. BuBKE. State what has been accompKahed, in a brief way, in the purchase of 
 
 ^tr. M™^ wSe already purchased quite a large -eage f or ho^e^^^^^ 
 
 in California. There still remain 1,568 Indians who are ^lai^^^l/^ff • ^^^ ^^e total 
 
 mated that altogether it will require 2,550 acres to supply them with land, ihe total 
 
 cost will be about $50,000. . . f„, 4.i,;c rMimnw Ah I recall 
 
 Mr. Burke. We have made enormous appropriations for this purpose. As 1 recaa 
 
 this is a matter with which Mr. Kelsy was connected. 
 
528 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; he is no longer in the service. 
 
 Mr. Burke. And we found that the money was expended but very little land was 
 purchased. Now, what progress has been made in the last year? 
 
 Then Mr. Meritt submits a report. So there have been large ap- 
 propriations made for the purpose of purchasing lands for these 
 Indians. ... 
 
 Mr. Raker. Just one word. I take that as a criticism, and feel 
 possibly that I ought to apologize. I once presented a small bill 
 here a few years ago for $15,000. I saw all the members of the com- 
 mittee and they said, "Look here, Raker, that is petty larceny. Why 
 do you not put it in for a miUion ? " Perhaps I ought to have put it 
 in for a larger amount to get what the Indians are really entitled to, 
 but I trust the committee will not be against us because we have 
 been so modest in asking for $30,000 instead of $50,000. 
 
 We would Hke to ask that Dr. Ehot, who is familiar with the situa- 
 tion there, say a few words to the committee. 
 
 STATEMENT OF DR. E. L. ELIOT. 
 
 Mr. Eliot Mr. Chairman and Senators, I have just returned from 
 northern California as a committee of the Indian Commission, and I 
 can testify to this need. Eight years ago there were 11,000 of these 
 homeless Indians in northern Cahfornia. Through the wise legisla- 
 tion of Congress, which has continued for eight years, and the efficient 
 administration of the special agents appointed by the bureau, the 
 great majority of those Indians have been now provided with small 
 holdings. 
 
 I wish to testify to the merits of the work done by the special agents. 
 The land has been bought in small holdings in places where the Indians 
 can secure employment and reasonably scattered among the white 
 settlers. I have not discovered any case where the Indians have 
 been pauperized by this belated justice that has overtaken them. In 
 my observation this sense of security and stability, the sense of pos- 
 session which is essential to any industrial or moral progress, has 
 shown its effects in the good results obtained, as Judge Raker says. 
 
 There are some 2,000 Indians, and an appropriation of $30,000 
 ought, in my judgment, to supply their needs. I notice that Mr. Mer- 
 itt suggests $50,000. That must be in view of the. increasing value of 
 lands in California. But it does seem to me as if $30,000 should 
 suffice and close up this business. You have been now appropriatiag 
 for eight years. Why not appropriate now a sufficient sum to com- 
 plete the undertaking, and establish these Indians upon the plane of 
 serviceable citizenship. . 
 
 Senator Page. Speaking for California, are you prepared to say 
 that if this $30,000 is allowed, you will pledge that your State will not 
 come and ask for an additional sum later. Judge ? 
 
 Mr. Rakee. My term expires shortly, and you know I could not 
 pledge the other side. 
 
 I wish to submit here a letter that has been sent to the Secretary of 
 the Interior by Dr. CoUett, which recites the history of this matter ia 
 better shape than I could attempt to do. I think it is worthy of 
 going in the record. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, it wiU be inserted in the record. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 529 
 
 (The letter referred to is as follows:) 
 
 „ „ rr T January 26, 1915. 
 
 Hon. Franklin K. Lane, 
 
 Secretary of the Interior, Washington, D. C. 
 
 Dear Sib: We are taking this opportunity to ask your careful consideration of the 
 fact that there are not only 1,568 homeless Indians in California (as shown on page 
 144 of the hearings of the House of Representatives for 1914 entitled "Land to be 
 bought for California Indians") but that there are others, and that there is no ade- 
 quate provision being made to supply even that number with land for homes in the 
 near future. 
 
 Besides those mentioned in the hearings referred to, there are approximately 118 
 Indians at Stewards Point, Sonoma County, without land; at Pleasanton there are 
 19 not provided for; at Colusa the allotment made was not adequate to provide even 
 for a small acreage for every family, and some are compelled to live elsewhere. Others, 
 from different localities, keep applying to our board to try and get land for them. 
 
 The $10,000 asked for this year is wholly inadequate and out of proportion with the 
 immediate need. 
 
 To provide for the entire 2,550 acres, as estimated on the same pa^e, as sufficient 
 for the 1,568 Indians, it would teke $54,825 at the average price previously paid per 
 acre of $21.50, and the total estimated appropriation needed has only been $50,000. 
 At the rate which the small appropriations of late years have made it possible to buy 
 land, it will be many more years before these homeless waiting Indians are provided 
 for. 
 
 Your attention is called to page 143 of the House hearings to the analysis of expend- 
 itures for the year ending June 30, 1914. There was $1,297.90 expended in order to 
 expend $1,125 for land. This economic breach was acknowledged in the same hear- 
 ings to be on account of the smallness of the appropriation which made perplexity 
 as to its wisest expenditure. In the year ending June 30, 1913, there was land pur- 
 chased only "For the Guideville Band in Mendocino County, 43.12 acres, at a cost 
 of $2,000; and for the Wappo Band in Sonoma County, 30 acres at a cost of $2,500." 
 A like small sum year by year, administered by one or another to whom the pur- 
 chase of land is only a side issue, will carry this matter on almost indeterminably 
 while the Indians with all their priority of claim suffer and die, homeless, and land- 
 less, without claim even to the 6 feet of soil in which they are buried. 
 
 Again, in this connection, it should be borne in mind that California land is 
 increasing in value at an enormously rapid rate, and lands which could have been 
 bought reasonably several years ago are almost fabulous now — ^as that of Colusa, 
 which was bought for the Indians at $90 per acre about six years ago. The adjoin- 
 ing land now brings $250 per acre. 
 
 At this rate of increase it will take almost three times as much to buy the same amount 
 of land six years from now. 
 
 Therefore, it is plainly a matter of economic import to the Government to make this 
 year's appropriation for land sufficiently large to conclude the purchase of land as 
 rapidly as possible; and it is also an action preeminently just to the California Indians, 
 for it is to be remembered that under the Spanish and Mexican laws that controlled 
 prior to the cession of the territory by Mexico to the United States the Indians right 
 of occupancy was recognized, and they could not be legally evicted. .^ , „, , 
 
 Also, under this transfer, existing land titles were guaranteed by the United btates 
 Government But there seems to be no record of more than two out ot several hun- 
 dred of these having been of any value, though these land grants contam thousands 
 of acres of the most fertile land in CaUfomia. , . , j ^i, ;™„+„,o=, 
 
 In the year 1851 a United States commission, duly authorized secured the signatures 
 of about 400 Indian chiefs to treaties. These chiefs represented approamately 150 
 bands or tribes, practically all of them located m Cahfomia. There were 18 of these 
 treaties, all sinufar in tenor. The terms of each treaty were substantially as follows. 
 
 The Indians agreed to: ^ . , _, ^ „ „4. 
 
 (a) Cede their rights in the land to the United States Government. 
 
 (5) Keep the peace. 
 
 (c) Accept the sovereignty of the United States. 
 
 (d) Accept certain reservations, 18 in number, aggregating about 5,500,000 acres, 
 described in said treaties by metes and bounds. 
 
 rsE^^sx^si— ««-'^as. «... 
 
 tions specified in said treaties. 
 82833 — 15 34 
 
530 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 (g) Provide as many schools and instructors as wer9 needed by the Indians and keep 
 them open as long as necessary. ., ^, ^ ^- j iv, /^ 
 
 The Senate of the United States failed to ratify these treaties, and the Government 
 therefore quite properly considered them inoperative. But why did the Senate fail 
 to ratify? Because certain influential gold miners whose mining claims would be 
 affected, used their influence against it. , , , ■, , , 
 
 However, strange as it may seem, proceedings under them have been conducted by 
 the Government exactly as if they were deemed in full force and effect, in so far as the 
 Indians were to become obligated thereunder; but the Government has disposed of 
 all the lands set apart as reservations under the proposed treaties, and denied the 
 Indians their rights to interfere in any way. 
 
 But prior to the passage of the Indian allotment act m 1887, it was impossible for an 
 Indian to acquire land in California from the public domain. The relief came too late 
 to save the Indians' rights from the greed of the white settlers, backed by the pro- 
 visions of the homestead laws. Eviction of Indians from lands they_ fully behaved 
 to be theirs under the treaties they had signed with the Government in 1851 became 
 quite general until when relief came it was too late. Out of 210,000 of the earlier days 
 but a miserable remnant of 20,000 are left, and the condition of these may be tersely 
 summed up in the language of an old chief, who recently replied to a white friend who 
 inquired after the welfare of his people, "52 years white man makes promise, no keep 
 'em; hope all gene." ' 
 
 By every court of the land these Indians are recognized as wards of the Federal 
 Government, and as such should be amply provided for. However, it is a pitiful fact 
 that they alone of all the Indians of the United States have not only never received 
 anything for their lands, but are still waiting year by year even for the Uttle allotted 
 space of ground for mere existence. 
 
 We therefore ask you, honorable Secretary, both as a Califomian and as one interested 
 Id the cause of humanity, to urge an adequate appropriation this year for the purchase 
 of land, and that the matter of purchase be carried forward with all possible speed. 
 Very sincerely, 
 
 F. G. & B. B. COLLBTT, 
 
 Field Secretaries, The Indian Board of Cooperation, California. 
 (Temporary address, general delivery, Washington, D. 0.) 
 
 Mr. Raker. And also a short statement in regard to the Indians 
 as they are located in the various congressional districts of California. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, that will be inserted in the 
 record. 
 
 Approximate number of Indians, acreage, and amount needed still for the landless Indians 
 
 of California. 
 
 [According to congressional districts, as estimated on pp. 144 and 145, H. 
 mittee o£ Committee on Indian Affairs.] 
 
 R. Hearings, 1914, of subcom- 
 
 
 Number 
 
 of 
 Indians. 
 
 Acres. 
 
 Amount. 
 
 Owens Valley 
 
 
 
 /SIOO.OOO 
 \ 150,000 
 
 1,500 
 1,000 
 
 First district (Wm. Kent): 
 Butte County — 
 
 Moreton 
 
 60 
 49 
 60 
 50 
 50 
 
 110 
 60 
 40 
 
 30 
 
 25 
 40 
 
 75 
 70 
 
 100 
 100 
 100 
 100 
 100 
 
 240 
 80 
 80 
 
 80 
 60 
 80 
 
 80 
 160 
 
 McHoopda 
 
 Yankee Hill 
 
 1,000 
 1,500 
 
 Yuba County— Strawberry Valley 
 
 Del Norte County— Lake Earle 
 
 1,500 
 
 Sonoma County- 
 Fort Ross 
 
 2,000 
 1,600 
 1 500 
 
 Cloverdale 
 
 Bodega 
 
 Humboldt County- 
 Stone Lagoon 
 
 1,500 
 2,000 
 2,000 
 
 2 000 
 
 Lower Mad River 
 
 Middle Eel 
 
 Lake County — 
 
 Laver Lake 
 
 Coche Creek 
 
 1,600 
 
 
 Stewards Point 
 
 689 
 (118) 
 
 1,300 
 (250) 
 
 20,700 
 (2,000) 
 
 
 (Sonoma County) 
 
 807 
 
 1,660 
 
 22 700 
 
 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 
 
 Approximate number of Indians, acreage, and amount needed still for the 
 
 of California — Continued . 
 
 531 
 
 Indians 
 
 Number 
 
 of 
 Indians. 
 
 Amount. 
 
 Second district (John Raker): 
 
 Sierra County — Loyalton 
 
 Shasta County— 
 
 Wengler 
 
 Redding 
 
 Tuolumne County — Sonora 
 
 Placer County — Auburn 
 
 Eldorado County- 
 Nashville 
 
 Pleasant Valley 
 
 Calaveras County — Sheep Ranch. 
 
 Amador County — Richey 
 
 10 
 
 76 
 40 
 60 
 
 120 
 50 
 90 
 75 
 
 20 
 160 
 
 80 
 120 
 
 240 
 100 
 200 
 160 
 
 $1,000 
 
 1,000 
 2,000 
 2,000 
 1,200 
 
 2,000 
 1,400 
 1,600 
 2,000 
 
 560 
 
 1,160 
 
 14,200 
 
 Sixth district (J. R. Knowland): 
 Alameda County — Pleasanton . . 
 
 Seventh district (Denver Church): 
 Kern County— El Tejon Ranch. 
 Fresno County— Dunlap 
 
 (19) 
 
 3,00 
 
 80 
 
 (140) 
 160 
 
 3,000 
 1,000 
 
 300 
 
 4,00 
 
 Eleventh district (Wm. Kettner): 
 Riverside County— Pechanga. . 
 
 10,000 
 
 Owens Valley 
 
 First district (Wm. Kent) .... 
 Second district (John Raker) . 
 Sirth district (Knowland) . . . 
 Seventh district (Church) — 
 Eleventh district (Kettner) . . 
 
 Total. 
 
 203, 90 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. May I make a short statement on this matter? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. ■-,-, ^ r. m ■ 4. 
 
 Mr Meritt The office realizes that $30,000 will not be sufficient 
 to buy land for all the landless Indians of Cahfornia Thirty thousand 
 doUars this year can be economicaUy used. If this amount is now 
 appropriated it will be necessary to ask for an additional appropria- 
 tion oU20,000 or 125,000 before all the Indians m Califorma wiU be 
 suppUed ^^4th land. I wanted to make that perfectly clear to the 
 committee because next year we will include m 0^,^^^^*^^*^ *^^^^^ 
 tional amount that will be necessary to supply all the I^^^ians of Cah- 
 fornia with land. I wish to add, afso that S/f,^?tf,7j^^^7^^/^^^^^^^^ 
 missioner Sells are both very much m favor of this i^^'^P'^J^^/*^^^'^ 
 be very glad mdeed to have the $30,000 appropriated this year. 
 
 TheCiAiEMAN. Is there any objection to t^e item ? 
 
 from North Dakota. „„.-„-ca 
 
 FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES. 
 
 The C=An«A». I haTe a letter '"-,?» ''"f^JlfSn? for 
 ?:tJrr^^Yr^i^M=J£=i< t.e^.., 
 avilized Tribes. I ask that that go m the record. 
 
532 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 
 
 (The letter and statement referred to is as follows :) 
 
 Department of the Inteeior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 Washington, February 1, 1915. 
 My Dear Senator: In partial compliance with your request of January 18, that at 
 statement of the annual collections and expenditures for the Five Civilized Tribes be 
 prepared for Senator Owen, I am transmitting herewith the statement requested, m 
 duplicate, relating to the Choctaws and Ohickasaws from 1902 to September 30, 1914, 
 inclusive, which is the latest period to which transactions are complete as tie account 
 of the disbiirsing officer for the Five Civilized Tribes covering the period October 1 to 
 December 31, 1914, will not be submitted from the Muskogee office until after Jan- 
 uary 30. Similar statements regarding the Cherokees, Creeks, and Seminoles are being 
 prepared and will be forwarded within the next few days. 
 
 Regarding the extent to which the Government holds individual Indian moneys 
 belonging to members of the Five Civilized Tribes, you are informed that the report 
 from William M. Baker, cashier and special disbursing agent, September 30, 1914 
 shows the sum of $2,425,605.01 deposited to the credit of individual Indians; also the 
 sum of $281,143.47 deposited and held pending final disposition, and 12,991 61 cash on 
 hand, making a grand total of $2,709,740.09. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Cato Sells, Covimisdoner. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PEOCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW INDIANS. 
 
 1902. 
 
 1901. 
 
 July 1. Amount on hand J57,675.33 
 
 Collections, 1902 292, 960. 32 
 
 350, 525. 65 
 
 1902. 
 June 3( 
 
 EXPENDITUEES. 
 
 Disbursed, 1902... 
 Balance on hand. 
 
 15147,941.17 
 . 202,584.48 
 
 350,525.65 
 
 1903. 
 
 1902. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance on hand S202, 584. 48 
 
 Collections to Jan. 26, 1903 282, 982. 22 
 
 1903. 
 Jan. 26. Disbursed to this date. 
 
 Transferred to "Indian mon- 
 eys, proceeds of labor, 
 Choctaw town lots " 
 
 Transferred to "Indian mon- 
 eys, proc.eds of labor, 
 Choctaw stone and timber " 
 
 Transferred to "Indian mon- 
 eys, proceeds of labor, 
 Choctawright of way" 
 
 Transferred to "Indian mon- 
 eys, proceeds of labor, 
 Choctaw royalties, etc." . . . 
 
 485,566.70 | 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, CATTLE TAX. 
 
 1905. 
 
 349,989.03 
 
 224,688.55 
 
 76,339.40 
 
 1,118.20 
 
 133,431.62 
 485,666.70 
 
 1905. 
 Jane 30. 
 
 1905. 
 June 30. 
 
 1906. 
 
 CoUections, 1905 S29, 120. 51 
 
 1905. 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1905... 
 Balance on hand . 
 
 29, 120. 61 
 
 1906. 
 
 Balance on hand S4 967 61 
 
 Collections, 1908 23' 247.' 38 
 
 1906. 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1906... 
 Balance on hand . 
 
 28,214.99 
 
 1907. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand . . 95 400 qo 
 
 CoUections, 1907 ....:;:; ; ; ; ; ; ; i; ^t: m 
 
 4,805.01 
 
 1907. 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1907... 
 Balance on hand . 
 
 824,152.90 
 4,967.61 
 
 29,120.51 
 
 824,716.61 
 3,498.38 
 
 28,214.99 
 
 S600.00 
 4,205.01 
 
 4,805.01 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 533 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, CATTLE TAX-Continued. 
 
 1908. 
 
 1907. 
 July 1. Balance on hand $4,205.01 
 
 1908. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1908 js igg. 59 
 
 Balance on hand 1I0O6.42 
 
 4,205.01 
 
 4,205.01 
 
 1999. 
 
 1908. I 1914. 
 July 1. Balance on hand 51,006.42 | Sept. 30. Balance on hand $1,006.42 
 
 No receipts or disbursements tron^July 1, 1908, to September 30, 1914, inclusive. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LA.BOR, CHOCTAW RIGHT OF WAY. 
 
 1903. 
 
 1903. 
 Jan. 26. Amount formerly credited on 
 ledgers to ''Indian moneys^ 
 roceeds of labor, Choctaw'' SI, 118. 20 
 802. 61 
 
 Collections, balance of 1903.. 
 
 1903. 
 June 30. Balance on hand $1,920.71 
 
 1,920.71 
 
 1904. 
 
 1,920.71 
 
 1903. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $1,920.71 
 
 Collections, 1904 23, 357. 87 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1904 $16,222.07 
 
 Balance on hand 9,056.51 
 
 25,278.58 
 
 1905. 
 
 25,278.68 
 
 1904. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand 89,056.61 
 
 CoUections, 1905 13, 959. 97 
 
 1905. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1905 $17,984.97 
 
 Balance on hand 5,031.61 
 
 23,016.48 
 
 1906. 
 
 23,016.48 
 
 1905. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $6,031.61 
 
 CoUections, 1906 11, 641. 60 
 
 1906. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1906 $16,346.51 
 
 Balance on hand 326.60 
 
 16,673.11 
 
 1907. 
 
 16,673.11 
 
 1906. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $326.60 
 
 Collections, 1907 18, 444. 16 
 
 18,776.75 
 
 1907. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1907 $360.00 
 
 Balance on hand 18,420.75 
 
 18,770.76 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW EIGHT OF WAY. 
 
 1908. 
 
 1907. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $18,420.75 
 
 CoUections, 1908 16,093.79 
 
 1908. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1908 $400. 00 
 
 Balance on hand 34,114.64 
 
 34,614.64 
 
 1909. 
 
 34,614.64 
 
 1908. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $34,114.54 
 
 CoUections, 1909 1, 397. 92 
 
 1909. 
 June 30. Balance on hand $35,612.46 
 
 35,512.46 
 
 1910. 
 
 35,612.4 6 
 
 1909. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $35,512.46 
 
 CoUections, 1910 1,M5.77 
 
 36,658.23 
 
 June 30. Balance on hand $36,658.23 
 
534 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW RIGHT OF WAY— Continued. 
 
 1911. 
 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $36,558.23 
 
 CoUeotions, 1911 3, 788. 51 
 
 1911. 
 June 30. Balance on liand t40,346.74 
 
 40,346.74 
 
 1912. 
 
 40,346.74 
 
 1911. 
 
 July ' 1. Balance on hand $40,346.74 
 
 Collections, 1912 2, 591. 00 
 
 1912. 
 June 3 
 
 . Disbursements, 1912 $40, 346. 34 
 
 Balance on hand 2,591.40 
 
 42,937.74 
 
 1913. 
 
 42,937.74 
 
 1912. 
 
 July ' 1. Balance on hand $2,591.40 
 
 CoUeotions, 1913.. 276.60 
 
 2,868.00 
 
 1913. 
 
 June 31 
 
 Balance on hand $2,868.00 
 
 2,868.00 
 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $2,868.00 
 
 Collections, 1914 3,564.17 
 
 6, 432. 17 
 
 1914. 
 June 3( 
 
 Balance on hand $6,432.17 
 
 1914. 
 J uly 1. Balance on hand. 
 
 1915. 
 
 I 1914. 
 6,432.17 I Sept. ! 
 
 6,432.17 
 
 , Balance on hand $6,432.17 
 
 No receipts or disbursements during first quarter 1915. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW ROYALTIES, ETC. 
 
 1903. 
 
 1903. 
 Ian. 26. Amount formerly credited on 
 ledgers to "Indian moneys, 
 proceeds of labor, Choc- 
 taw" $133,431.52 
 
 Collections, balance of 1903 . . 102, 570. 66 
 
 1903. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1903 $86,772.33 
 
 Balance on hand 149,229.85 
 
 236,002.18 
 
 1904. 
 
 236,002.18 
 
 1903. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $149,229.85 
 
 Collections, 1904 : 241,958.09 
 
 1904. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1904 $136,369.90 
 
 Blanceonhand 264,818.04 
 
 391,187.94 
 
 1905. 
 
 391,187.94 
 
 1904. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $254,818.04 
 
 Collections, 1905 181, 499. 14 
 
 1905. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1905 $257,738.05 
 
 Balance on hand 178,579. 13 
 
 436,317.18 
 
 1906. 
 
 436,317.18 
 
 1905. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $178,579.13 
 
 Collections, 1906 184,449.78 
 
 363,028.91 
 
 1906. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1906 $137, 338. 89 . 
 
 Balance onhand 225,690.02 
 
 363,028.91 
 
 1907 
 
 1908. 
 
 July- 1. Balance on hand $225,690.02 
 
 Collections, 1907 253,668.77 
 
 1907. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1907 $147,201.81 
 
 Balance on hand 332, 156. 98 
 
 479,358.79 
 
 1908. 
 
 479,358.79 
 
 1907. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $332,166.98 
 
 Collections, 1908 283,846.66 
 
 616,003.54 
 
 1908. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1908 $326,937.43 
 
 Balance oh hand 290,066.11 
 
 616,003.54 
 
INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 535 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW ROYALTIES, ETC.— Continued. 
 
 1909. 
 
 1908. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $290,066.11 
 
 Collections, 1909 233,161.90 
 
 1909. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1909 $248,283.31 
 
 Balance onhand 274,944.70 
 
 523,228.01 
 
 1910. 
 
 523,228.01 
 
 1909. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $274,944.70 
 
 Collections, 1910 310,533.76 
 
 585,478.46 
 
 1910. 
 
 June 30. Dishursed, 1910 $155,667.03 
 
 Balance on hand 429,811.43 
 
 685,478.46 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW ROYALTIES, ETC. 
 
 1911. 
 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $429, 811. 43 
 
 CoUections, 1911 1,234,781.78 
 
 1,664,593.21 
 
 June 30. Dishursed, 1911 $239, 097. 98 
 
 Balance on hand 1,426,495.23 
 
 1,664,693.21 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $1,425,495.23 
 
 Collections, 1912 301,758.01 
 
 1911. 
 July 1. Amount carried onledger to 
 credit of "Indian moneys, 
 proceeds of labor, Choctaw 
 
 unallotted lands '' $1,041,244.37 
 
 Other disbursements in 1912 445,615. 48 
 June 30. Balance on hand 240,393.39 
 
 1,727,253.24 
 
 1913. 
 
 1,727,253.24 
 
 1912 
 
 July 'l. Balance on hand $240,393.39 
 
 CoUections, 1913 246, 162. 93 
 
 486,556.32 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1913 $181, 650. 61 
 
 Balanoeonhand 304,905.71 
 
 486,556.32 
 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $304, 905. 71 
 
 CoUections, 1914 306,199.62 
 
 1914 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1914 $188, 039. 50 
 
 Balance on hand 423,065.83 
 
 611,105.33 
 
 1915. 
 
 611,105.33 
 
 1914. 
 
 July 'l. Balance on hand $423,065.83 
 
 CoUections to Sept. 30, 1914 . 44, 659. 31 
 
 1915 
 June 30. Disbursements to Sept. 30, 
 
 J914 Sol, 910. 6U 
 
 Balance on hand and in 
 hands of disbursmg offl- 
 cers, Sept. 30, 1914 405,808.34 
 
 467,725.14 
 
 467, 725. 14 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, STONE AND TIMBER 
 
 1903. 
 
 1903. 
 
 Jan. 26. Amount formerly credited on 
 ledgers to "Indian moneys, 
 p^^ds of labor. Choc- ^^^^^^^^ 
 
 CoUections, balance oi 1903. 8.8^4.67 
 85,26407 
 
 1903. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, balance of 1903 "va^-a 
 
 ■Rftlance on hsind 5»e /ii».u 
 
 85,264.07 
 
 1904. 
 
 1903. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance on hand *faim°i 
 
 CoUections, 1904 29,sm.ii> 
 
 115,124.32 
 
 1904. 
 June 30. Balance on 
 
 hand $115,124.32 
 
 115,124.! 
 
536 
 
 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, STONE AND TIMBER-Continued. 
 
 1905. 
 
 1904 
 
 July "l. Balance on hand $115,124.32 
 
 CoUeotions, 1905 216.46 
 
 115,340.78 
 
 1905. 
 June 3C 
 
 Disbursed, 1905 $729. 74 
 
 Balance on hand 114, 611. 04 
 
 115,340.78 
 
 1906. 
 
 1905. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $114, 611. 04 
 
 CoUections, 1906 
 
 114, 611. 04 
 
 1907. 
 
 1906. 
 June 3C 
 
 Disbursements, 1906 $292.50 
 
 Balance onhand : 114,318.54 
 
 114,611.04 
 
 1906. 
 
 July 1 Balance on hand $114, 318. 54 
 
 CoUections, 1907 607.22 
 
 114,925.76 
 
 1907. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1907 S600. 00 
 
 Balance on hand 114, 325. 76 
 
 114,925.76 
 
 1908. 
 
 1907. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $114, 325. 76 
 
 CoUections, 1908 392. 70 
 
 114,718.46 
 
 1908. 
 June 30. Balance on hand $114, 718. 46 
 
 114,718.46 
 
 1908. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $114, 718. 46 
 
 Collections, 1909 3, 616. 44 
 
 118, 334. 90 
 
 1909. 
 June 30. Balance on hand $118, 334. 90 
 
 118,334.90 
 
 1909. 
 
 July 1. Balanceonhand $118,334.90 
 
 CoUections, 1910 12, 160. 79 
 
 130,495.69 
 
 1910. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1910 $118, 381. 15 
 
 Balance on hand 12, 114. 54 
 
 130,495.69 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, STONE AND TIMBER. 
 
 1911. 
 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. Balanceonhand $12,114.64 
 
 CoUeotions, 1911 34,955.46 
 
 1911. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1911 $2, 402. 81 
 
 Balance on hand 44, 667. 19 
 
 47,070.00 
 
 1912. 
 
 47,070.00 
 
 1911. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $44,667.19 
 
 Collections, 1912 1, 847. 44 
 
 46,514.63 
 
 1912. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1912 $43, 490. 91 
 
 Balanceonhand 3,023.72 
 
 46,514.63 
 
 1913. 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. Balanceonhand $3,023.72 
 
 CoUections, 1913 1,274.82 
 
 4,298.64 
 
 1913. 
 June 30. Balanceonhand $4,298.64 
 
 4,298.64 
 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. Balanceonhand $4,298.54 
 
 Collections, 1914 186. 41 
 
 1914. 
 Jvme 30. Balance on hand $4,484.95 
 
 4,484.95 
 
 1916. 
 
 , 1914. I 1914. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $4, 484. 95 I Sept. 30. Balance on hand . 
 
 4,484.9 
 
 $4,484.95 
 
 No receipts or disbursements din-ing first quarter 1915. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, TOWN LOTS. 
 
 1903. 
 
 537 
 
 1903. 
 Ian. 26. 
 
 Amount formerly credited 
 
 on ledgers to "Indian 
 
 moneys, proceeds of labor, 
 
 Choctaw'' $224,688. 55 
 
 Collections, 1903 Ill 89"' 29 
 
 336,680.84 
 
 1904. 
 
 1903. 
 
 June 30. Balance on hand $330, 680. 84 
 
 336,680.84 
 
 1903. 
 July 1. 
 
 1904. 
 July 1. 
 
 1905. 
 July 1. 
 
 1906. 
 July 1. 
 
 1907. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance on hand $336, 580. 84 
 
 Collections, 1904 268,205. 26 
 
 604,786.10 
 
 1904. 
 
 June 30. Balance on hand $604, 786. 10 
 
 604, 788. 10 
 
 1905. 
 
 Balance on hand $604, 786. 10 
 
 Collections, 1905 406,388.00 
 
 1905. 
 
 1,011,174.10 I 
 1906. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1905 $722,445.73 
 
 Balance on hand 288, 728. 37 
 
 1,011,174.10 
 
 Balance on hand $288, 728. 37 
 
 Collections, 1906 392,253.72 
 
 680,982.09 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1906 $168,625.00 
 
 Balance on hand 512, 357. 09 
 
 680,982.09 
 
 1907. 
 
 Balance on hand $512,357.09 
 
 Collections, 1907 409, 980. 10 
 
 1907. 
 
 922,337.19 
 
 1908. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1907 $606,057.19 
 
 Balance on hand 316,280.00 
 
 922,337.19 
 
 Balance on hand $316,280.00 
 
 Collections, 1908 194, 200. 21 
 
 1908. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1908 $189, 600. 00 
 
 Balance on hand 340, 980. 21 
 
 510,480.21 
 
 1909. 
 
 610,480.21 
 
 1908. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance on hand $340, 980. 21 
 
 Collections, 1909 161, 756. 26 
 
 1909. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1909 $380, 734. 23 
 
 Balance on hand 112, 002. 24 
 
 492,736.47 
 
 1910. 
 
 492, 736. 47 
 
 1909. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance on hand $112,002.24 
 
 Collections, 1910 68, 697. 33 
 
 170,699.57 
 
 1910. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1910 $29,837.99 
 
 Balance on hand 140, 861. 68 
 
 170,699.67 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, TOWN LOTS. 
 
 1911. 
 
 1910. 
 
 Julv 1. Balance on hand $140, 861. 58 
 
 CoUections, 1911 78,492.21 
 
 I 1911. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1911 $127,773.75 
 
 Balance on hand 91,580.04 
 
 219, 353. 79 
 
 1912. 
 
 219,363.79 
 
 1911. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $91,580.04 
 
 Collections, 1912 53, 397. 20 
 
 144, 977. 24 
 
 1912. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1912 $125,103.76 
 
 Balance on hand 19,873.48 
 
 144,977.24 
 
638 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, TOWN LOTS-Continued. 
 
 1913. 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand *18>*''5-^? 
 
 Collections, 1913 36, 689. 02 
 
 1913. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1913 $8,663.88 
 
 Balance on hand, including 
 deposits in Oklahoma 
 banks 47,898.62 
 
 66, 562. 50 
 
 1914. 
 
 56,662.50 
 
 July ' 1. Balance on hand. Including 
 
 deposits $47,898.62 
 
 CoUections, 1914 19, 246. 15 
 
 67,144.77 
 
 1914. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $14,467.50 
 
 Balance on hand, including 
 deposits in Oklahoma 
 banks 52,677.27 
 
 67,144.77 
 
 1915. 
 
 1914. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand, including 
 
 deposits $52,677.27 
 
 CoUections to Sept. 30, 1914. . 2, 433. 95 
 
 1914. 
 
 Sept. 30. Disbursed to Sept. 30, 1914.. $5,557.50 
 
 Balance on hand, including 
 
 deposits in Oklahoma 
 
 banks and funds in hands 
 
 of disbursing ofScers 49, 553. 72 
 
 65, 111. 22 
 
 CHOCTAW, UNALLOTTED LANDS, ETC. 
 1912. 
 
 1911. 
 
 July 1. Amount formerly credited 
 on ledgers to royalties, 
 
 grazing, etc $1,041,244.37 
 
 Ccaiections, 1912 914, 888. 97 
 
 1,956,133.34 
 
 July 1, 
 
 1911, to 
 
 June 30, 
 
 1912. 
 
 55,111.22 
 
 $8,719.30 
 
 1913. 
 
 1912. 
 
 . June 1. Balance on hand including 
 
 deposits $1,947,414.04 
 
 Collections, 1913 1, 840, 130. 90 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1, 
 
 1912, to 
 
 June 30, 
 
 1913 
 
 3,787,544.94 
 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. Balance on band including 
 
 deposits $3, 786, 723* 27 
 
 CoUections, 1913 1,142,881.33 
 
 Disbursed 
 
 Balance on hand, including 
 deposits In Oklahoma 
 banks 1,947,414.04 
 
 1,956,133.34 
 
 Disbursed $821.67 
 
 Balance on hand, including 
 
 deposits in Oklahoma 
 
 banks 3,786,723.27 
 
 3,787,544.94 
 $1,400.00 
 
 July 1, f Disbtursed 
 
 1913, to J Balance on hand, including 
 June 30,1 deposits in Oklahoma 
 1914. I banks 4,928,204.60 
 
 4,929,604.60 
 
 1915. 
 
 1914. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand including 
 
 deposits $4, 928, 204. 60 
 
 CoUections to Sept. 30, 1914. 77, 403. 20 
 
 July 1, 
 
 1914, to 
 
 Sept. 30, 
 
 1914. 
 
 4,929,604.60 
 
 fDisbursed $23,261.96 
 
 Balance on hand, including 
 deposits in Oklahoma 
 
 banks to Sept. 30, 1914. . . 4, 982, 345. 84 
 
 5,005,607.80 
 
 Summary. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW. 
 
 5,005,607.80 
 
 
 Colrections. 
 
 Disburse- 
 ments. 
 
 
 $57,575.33 
 292,950.32 
 282,982.22 
 
 
 1902 
 
 $147,941.17 
 
 1903 
 
 49,989.03 
 
 Carried to other titles 
 
 435,577.67 
 
 
 
 
 
 633,507.87 
 
 633,507.87 
 
INDIAN APPKOPBIAHON BILL. 539 
 
 Summary — Continued. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, CATTLE TAX. 
 
 
 CoUeotions. 
 
 Disburse- 
 ments. 
 
 1905 
 
 $29,120.51 
 
 23,247.38 
 
 1,306.63 
 
 $24,162.90 
 
 24,716.61 
 
 600.00 
 
 3,198.69 
 
 1906 
 
 1907 
 
 1908 
 
 1909 ;.■; 
 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 
 1,006.42 
 
 
 ^' 
 
 
 53,674.52 
 
 53,674.62 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, RIGHT OF WAY. 
 
 Amount on hand 
 
 $1,118.20 
 
 802.61 
 
 23,357.87 
 
 13,959.97 
 
 11,641.60 
 
 18,444.15 
 
 16,093.79 
 
 1,397.92 
 
 1,045.77 
 
 3,788.61 
 
 2,691.00 
 
 276.60 
 
 3,564.17 
 
 
 1903 ■": 
 
 
 1904 
 
 $16,222.07 
 17,984.97 
 16,346.61 
 
 1905 
 
 1906 ■ ■ 
 
 1907 . 
 
 1908 
 
 400 00 
 
 1909 
 
 
 1910... 
 
 
 1911 „ 
 
 
 1912 
 
 40,346.34 
 
 1913 
 
 1914 
 
 
 1916 
 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 
 6,432.17 
 
 
 
 
 98,082.06 
 
 98,082.06 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW ROYALTIES, ETC. 
 
 AmonTit nn hanfl .Tan. 9fi IQO.^ 
 
 $133,431.62 
 102,570.66 
 241,958.09 
 181,499.14 
 184,449.78 
 253,668.77 
 283,846.56 
 233,161.90 
 310,633.76 
 193,537.41 
 301,758.01 
 246, 162. 93 
 306,199.62 
 44,659.31 
 
 
 1903 
 
 $86, 772. 33 
 
 1904 . . 
 
 136,369.90 
 
 1905 
 
 267,738.05 
 
 1906 
 
 137,338.89 
 
 1907 
 
 147,201.81 
 
 1908 
 
 325,937.43 
 
 1909 ... . 
 
 248,283.31 
 
 1910 
 
 155,667.03 
 
 1911 
 
 239,097.98 
 
 1912 
 
 445,615.48 
 
 1913 
 
 181,660.61 
 
 1914 
 
 188,039.50 
 
 To Sept. 30, 1915 
 
 61,916.80 
 
 
 405,808.34 
 
 
 3,017,437.46 
 
 3,017,437.46 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, STONE AND TIMBER. 
 
 Amount on hand Jan. 26, 1903.. 
 
 1903 
 
 1904 
 
 1905 
 
 1906 
 
 1907 
 
 1908 
 
 1909 
 
 1910 
 
 1911 
 
 1912 
 
 1913 
 
 1914 
 
 1916 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $76,339.40 
 
 8,924.67 
 
 29,860.25 
 
 216. 48 
 
 607. 22 
 392. 70 
 3, 616. 44 
 12, 160. 79 
 34, 965. 46 
 1,847.44 
 1,274.82 
 186.41 
 
 170,382.06 
 
 $729. 74 
 292.50 
 600. 00 
 
 118, 381. 15 
 
 2,402.81 
 
 43, 490. 91 
 
 4, 484. 95 
 
 170, 382. 06 
 
540 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 • Summary — Continued . 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PEOCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, TOWN LOTS. 
 
 
 Collections. 
 
 Disburse- 
 ments. 
 
 
 S224, 688. 55 
 
 111,892.29 
 
 268,205.26 
 
 406,388.00 
 
 392,253.72 
 
 409,930.10 
 
 194,200.21 
 
 151, 756. 26 
 
 58, 697. 33 
 
 78,492.21 
 
 53.397.20 
 
 36,*89. 02 
 
 19,240. 15 
 
 2, 433. 95 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 S722, 446. 73 
 
 
 168,625.00 
 
 
 606,057.19 
 
 19Q8 
 
 169, 500. 00 
 
 
 380,734.23 
 29, 837. 99 
 
 \^\Q 
 
 1911 
 
 127,773.75 
 
 
 125, 103. 76 
 
 
 8, 663. 88 
 
 1914 
 
 14,467.50 
 
 
 5,557.50 
 
 
 49,553,72 
 
 
 
 
 2,408,320.25 
 
 2,408,320.25 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHOCTAW, UNALLOTTED. 
 
 Lands, etc., 1911 and prior years.. 
 
 M12. 
 
 1913 
 
 1914 
 
 To Sept. 30, 1915 
 
 Balance on liand and in 01i:lalionia banks Sept. 30, 1915 . 
 
 $1,041,244.37 
 
 914,888.97 
 
 1,840,130.90 
 
 1,142,881.33 
 
 77, 403. 20 
 
 88,719.30 
 
 821. 67 
 
 1,400.00 
 
 23,261.96 
 
 4,982,345.84 
 
 5,016,648.77 5,016,648.77 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR. 
 
 Collections. 
 
 Disbursements. 
 
 Balance. 
 
 Choctaw 
 
 Clioctaw, cattle tax 
 
 Choctaw, right of way 
 
 Choctaw, royalties, etc , 
 
 Choctaw, stone and timber 
 
 Choctaw, town lots: 
 
 Choctaw, unallotted lands, etc. . 
 
 $197,930.20 
 
 53,674.52 
 
 98,082.06 
 
 3,017,437.46 
 
 170,382.06 
 
 2,408,320.25 
 
 5,016,648.77 
 
 $197, 
 52, 
 91, 
 2, 611, 
 165, 
 2,358, 
 34, 
 
 930.20 
 
 668. 10 
 649.89 
 629. 12 
 
 897. 11 
 766.53 
 202.93 
 
 $1,006.42 
 
 6,432.17 
 
 406,808.34 
 
 4,484.95 
 
 149,653.72 
 
 14,982,345.84 
 
 10,962,375.32 
 
 5,612,743.88 
 
 5,449,631.44 
 
 1 Including timds deposited in Oklahoma banks. 
 
 CHOCTAW GENERAL FUND. 
 1902, 
 
 RECEIPTS. I EXPENDITURES. 
 
 1901. 1902. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $348,523.00 | June 30. Balance on hand 
 
 1903. 
 
 1902. I 1903. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $348,523.00 | June 30. Balance on hand 
 
 1904. 
 
 1903. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $348,623.00 
 
 1904. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed 
 
 Balance on hand . 
 
 348,523.00 
 
 1906. 
 
 1904. I 1905. > 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $346,364.74 | June 26. Disbursed. 
 
 $348,523.00 
 
 $348,523.00 
 
 $2,158.26 
 346,364.74 
 
 348,523.00 
 
 $346,364.74 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 541 
 
 INTEREST ON CHOCTAW GENERAL FUND. 
 1902. 
 
 1901. ^ ^ 
 
 July 1. Balance on nana 
 
 Amount credited, 1902., 
 
 $129. 89 
 18,132.95 
 
 1901. 
 July 1. Disbursed. 
 
 1902. 
 July 20. Disbursed. 
 
 1902. . , 
 July 1. Interest credited. 
 
 1903. ,. ^ 
 Jan. 2. Interest credited.. 
 
 18,262.84 
 
 1903. 
 
 $8,713.07 
 
 8,719.08 
 
 17,432.15 
 
 1902. 
 Aug. 21. Disbursed. 
 
 1903. 
 Jan. 21. Disbursed. 
 
 1904. 
 
 1903. 
 
 July 1. Interest credited $8,713.07 
 
 8,713.73 
 
 17,426.80 
 
 1904. 
 Jan. 2. Interest credited. 
 
 1903. 
 July 14. Disbursed.. 
 
 1904. 
 Jan. 20. Disbursed. 
 
 1904. 
 July 1. Interest credited.. 
 
 1905. 
 Jan. 3. Interest credited. , 
 
 1905. 
 S8,709.98 
 8,659.12 
 
 17,369.10 
 
 1904. 
 July 20. Disbursed. 
 
 1906. 
 Jan. 14. Disbursed. 
 
 1906. 
 
 1905. 
 
 1905. 
 
 July 1. Interest credited 83,178.96 I Aug. 9. Disbursed. 
 
 CHOCTAW ORPHAN FUND. 
 
 $9,419.90 
 
 8,842.94 
 18,262.84 
 
 $8,713.07 
 
 8,719.08 
 17,432.15 
 
 $8,713.07 
 
 8,713.73 
 17,426.80 
 
 $8,709.98 
 
 8,659.12 
 17,369.10 
 
 $3,178.96 
 
 Balance on hand $39,710.69 
 
 1001 I 19"- 
 
 July 1- Balance on hand S39, 710. 69 i Sept. 30. 
 
 -No collections or disbursements under this lund from July 1, 1901, to Sept. 30, 1914. 
 
 NOTE.- 
 
 INTEREST ON CHOCTAW ORPHAN FUND. 
 1902. 
 
 1901. ^ ^ 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand 
 
 1902. Interest credited, 1902 . 
 
 STS. 86 
 1,985.54 
 
 June 30. Disbursed "^'^Tsile 
 
 Balance. 
 
 2,064.40 
 
 1903. 
 
 2,064.40 
 
 1902. 
 
 July 1. By balance 
 
 Interest credited. 
 
 S78. 86 
 1.985.64 
 
 1903. 
 
 Disbursed O^'O^*-*" 
 
 2,064.40 
 $1,985.54 
 
 1904, interest 
 
 1905, interest 
 
 2,064.40 
 
 1904. 
 
 credited »1.88S.54 | 1904, disbursed. 
 
 190S. 
 
 ,. ,. J $1,985.54 
 
 credited 81.^85.54 | 1905, disbursed 
 
 1906. 
 
 ,., J $1985.54 i 1906, disbursed.. 
 
 1906, interest credited »i,»=o.o i 
 
 1907. 
 
 II QSi; 54 I 1907, by balance. 
 
 1907, interest credited $1,986.54 I i«u^ y 
 
 $1,985.54 
 $1,985.54 
 
542 
 
 1907. 
 
 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 INTEREST ON CHOCTAW ORPHAN FUND— Continued. 
 1908. 
 
 1908. 
 
 July 'l. By balance $1,985.64 June 30. By balance. 
 
 S3, 971. ( 
 
 Interest credited 
 
 1908. 
 
 July 1. By balance 
 
 Interest credited . 
 
 1,985.64 
 
 3,971.0 
 
 1909. 
 
 $3,971.08 
 1,985.64 
 
 5,956.62 
 
 1910. 
 
 1909. 
 June 30. By balance. 
 
 3.971.0 
 
 $5,956.62 
 
 1909. 
 
 July 1. By balance 
 
 Interest credited . 
 
 $5,956.62 
 1,985.54 
 
 1910. 
 June 30. By balance. 
 
 6,956.62 
 
 $7,942.16 
 
 7,942.16 
 
 1911. 
 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. By balance 
 
 Interest credited. 
 
 $7,942.16 
 1,985.54 
 
 1911. 
 June 30. By balance. 
 
 7,942.16 
 
 $9,927.70 
 
 1901. 
 July 1. Balance on hand 
 
 9,927.70 
 CHOCTAW SCHOOL FUND. 
 1902. 
 
 1914. 
 
 9,927.70 
 
 $49,472.70 I Sept. 30. Balance $49,472.70 
 
 Note.— No credits or disbursements from July 1, 1901, to Sept. 30, 1914, inclusiye. 
 INTEREST ON CHOCTAW ORPHAN FUND (continued) 
 1912. 
 
 1911. 
 
 July 1. By balance 
 
 Interest credited. 
 
 $9,927.70 
 1,985.64 
 
 1912. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance... 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. By balance 
 
 Interest credited . 
 
 11,913.24 
 
 1913. 
 
 1913. 
 $992.77 June 30. Balance. 
 1,985.54 
 
 2,978.31 
 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. By balance 
 
 Interest credited . 
 
 $2,978.31 
 1, 985. 54 
 
 1914. 
 June 30. Balance. 
 
 4,963.85 
 
 1915. 
 
 1914. 
 
 July 1. By balance 
 
 Interest 6 mouths. 
 
 $4,963.85 
 992. 77 
 
 1914. 
 Sept. 30. Balance. 
 
 1902, Interest credited. 
 
 1903, interest credited.. 
 
 1904, interest credited.. 
 
 5, 956. 62 
 
 INTEREST ON CHOCTAW SCHOOL FUND. 
 1902. 
 
 $2,473.64 I 1902, disbursed 
 
 1903. 
 
 $2,473.64 I 1903, disbursed 
 
 1904. 
 $2,473.64 I 1904, disbursed 
 
 $10,920.47 
 992. 77 
 
 11,913.24 
 
 $5,978.31 
 2,978.31 
 
 54,963.86 
 4,963.85 
 
 85,956.62 
 5,956.62 
 
 $2,473.64 
 $2,473.64 
 $2,473.64 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 543 
 
 1905, interest credited 
 
 1906, interest credited, 
 
 INTEREST ON CHOCTAW SCHOOL FUND-Coutinued. 
 
 1905. 
 $2,473.64 I 1905, disbui-sed 
 
 1906. 
 ■ J2, 473.64 I 1906, disbursed $2,473.64 
 
 1907. 
 
 $2,473.64 
 
 1907, interest credited.. 
 
 1907. 
 
 July 1. Balance 
 
 Interest credited.. 
 
 1908. 
 
 July 1. Balance 
 
 1909, interest credited.. 
 
 1909. 
 
 July 1. Balance 
 
 Interest credited.. 
 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. Balance 
 
 Interest credited.. 
 
 1911. 
 
 July 1. Balance 
 
 Interest credited.. 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. Balance 
 
 Interest credited.. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. Balance 
 
 Interest credited.. 
 
 1914. 
 July 1. Balance 
 
 Interestoredited, 6 months. 
 
 $2,473.64 
 
 1907. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance... 
 
 1908. 
 
 $112. 41 
 2, 473. 34 
 
 1908. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance... 
 
 2, 585. 76 
 
 1909. 
 
 $112. 41 
 2, 473. 64 
 
 1909. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance... 
 
 2, 586. 05 
 
 1910. 
 
 $112. 71 
 2, 473. 64 
 
 1910, balance. 
 
 2, 586. 35 
 
 1911. 
 
 $2, 686. 36 
 2,473.64 
 
 5,059.99 
 
 1911. 
 June 30. Balance. 
 
 1912. 
 
 $5,059.99 
 2, 473. 64 
 
 1912. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance... 
 
 7,533.63 
 
 1913. 
 
 $1,236.82 
 2, 473. 64 
 
 3,710.46 
 
 1913. 
 June 30. Balance. 
 
 1914. 
 
 $3,710.46 
 2,473.64 
 
 1914. 
 June 30. Balance. 
 
 6,184.10 
 
 1915. 
 
 $6, 184. 10 
 1,236.82 
 
 1914. 
 
 $2,361.53 
 112. 11 
 
 2, 473. 64 
 
 $2,473.34 
 112. 41 
 
 2,585.75 
 
 $2,473.34 
 112. 71 
 
 2,586.05 
 
 $2, 586. 35 
 
 2,586.35 
 
 $5,059.99 
 
 5,059.99 
 
 $6,296.81 
 1,236.82 
 
 7,533.63 
 
 $3, 710. 46 
 
 3, 710. 46 
 
 $6, 184. 10 
 
 6, 184. 10' 
 
 Sept. 30. Balance $7,420.92 
 
 7,420.92 
 
 CHOCTAW 3 PEE CENT FUND. 
 1907. 
 
 7,420.9? 
 
 1907. 
 July 1. Amount appropirated act 
 
 ofMarcb 1,1907 $390,257.92 
 
 No disbursements to June 30, 1911. 
 
 Balance *''''"> ''*"• "■' 
 
544 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 1911. 
 July 1. 
 
 CHOCTAW 3 PER CENT FUND— Continued. 
 1912. 
 
 1912. 
 
 By balance 8390,257.92 
 
 390,257.92 
 
 Disbursed. 
 Balance... 
 
 $10,477.98 
 379,779.94 
 
 390,257.92 
 
 1912. 
 July 1. 
 
 1913. 
 July 1. 
 
 1914. 
 July 1. 
 
 1908. 
 Jan. 2. 
 
 1908. 
 July 1. 
 
 1909. 
 July 1. 
 
 1909. 
 July 1. 
 
 1910. 
 July 1. 
 
 1911. 
 
 1911. 
 July 1. 
 
 1912. 
 
 1912. 
 July 1. 
 
 1913. 
 
 Bvbalance $379,779.94 June 30. Disbursed. 
 
 Balance... 
 
 379, 779. 94 
 
 1914. 
 
 $36,464.05 
 343,325.89 
 
 379,779.94 
 
 By balance $343,325.89 
 
 1914. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $27,816.88 
 
 Balance 315,509.01 
 
 343,325.89 
 
 1915. 
 
 By balance $315,509.01 
 
 1914. 
 
 Sept. 30. Disbursed 
 
 Balance on hand. 
 
 315,509.01 
 
 INTEREST ON CHOCTAW 3 PER CENT FUND. 
 1908. 
 
 343,325.89 
 
 $3,862.50 
 311,646.61 
 
 315,509.01 
 
 Accrued interest S5, 853. 87 
 
 1908. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $5,555.85 
 
 Balance 298. 02 
 
 6,853.87 
 
 1909. 
 
 5,853.87 
 
 Balance $298. 02 
 
 Accrued interest 11, 707. 74 
 
 1909. 
 
 Balance on hand $12,005.76 
 
 12,005.76 
 
 1910. 
 
 12,005.76 
 
 Balance $12, 005. 76 
 
 Accrued interest 11, 707. 74 
 
 1910. 
 June 30. Balance on hand. $23,713.50 
 
 23, 713. 50 
 
 1911. 
 
 23,713.50 
 
 Balance S23, 713. 50 
 
 Accrued interest 11, 707. 74 
 
 1911. 
 June 30. Balance on hand $35,421.24 
 
 35,421.24 
 
 1912. 
 
 35,421.24 
 
 Balance $35, 421. 24 
 
 Accrued interest 11, 707. 74 
 
 47, 128. ! 
 
 1912. 
 June 30. Disbursed $41,275.11 
 
 Balance 5, 853. 87 
 
 47,128.98 
 
 1913. 
 
 Balance $5, 853. 87 
 
 Accrued interest 11, 294. 75 
 
 17, 148. 62 
 
 1913. 
 June 30. Balance $17,148.6 
 
 17, 148. f 
 
IJNUIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 545 
 
 INTEREST ON CHOCTAW 3 PEE CENT FUND-Continued. 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. Balance $17,148.62 
 
 Accrued interest 10, 051. 88 
 
 1914. 
 
 June 30. Balance $27,200.60 
 
 27,200.50 
 
 1915. 
 
 27,200.60 
 
 July 1. Balance $27,200.50 
 
 Interest 6 months 4, 771. 30 
 
 1914. 
 Sept. 30. Balance $31,971.i 
 
 31,971.80 
 
 FULFILLING TREATIES WITH CHOCTAWS. 
 1902. 
 
 31,971.8 
 
 1901. 
 
 July 1. Appropriated $30,032.89 I 1902. Disbursed $30,032.89 
 
 1903. 
 
 1902. I 
 
 July 1. Appropriated $30,032.89 11903. Disbursed $30,032.89 
 
 1904. 
 
 1903. I 
 
 July 1. Appropriated $30,032.89 | 1904. Disbursed $30,032.89 
 
 1905. 
 
 1904. 
 July 1. Appropriated. 
 
 1905. 
 July 1. Appropriated. 
 
 $30,032.89 I 1906. Disbursed. 
 1906. 
 
 $30,032.89 I 1906. Disbursed. 
 1907. 
 
 $30,032.89 
 
 $30,032.89 
 
 1906. I 1907. 
 July 1. Appropriated $30,032.89 | June 30. Balance $30,032.89 
 
 1907. 
 July 
 
 1. Balance 
 
 Appropriated 
 
 Excess appropriated. , 
 Collections 
 
 1908. 
 July 
 
 1. By balance — 
 Appropriated. 
 
 830,032.89 
 10.520.00 
 19,512.89 
 24,198.26 
 
 1908. Disbursed 
 
 Amount carried to surplus 
 fund, being_ amount excess 
 
 appropriation 
 
 Balance 
 
 84,264.04 
 
 1909. 
 
 $64, 626. 81 
 
 19,512,89 
 124.34 
 
 84,264.04 
 
 $124. 34 
 10,520.00 
 
 1909. Balance $10,644.34 
 
 10,644.34 
 
 1910. 
 
 10,644.34 
 
 1909. 
 July 
 
 1. Balance 
 
 Appropriated., 
 
 $10,644.34 
 10,520.00 
 
 1910. Balance $21,164.34 
 
 21,164.34 
 
 1911. 
 
 21,164.34 
 
 1910. 
 July 
 
 1. Balance $21,164.34 
 
 Appropriated 10.520.00 
 
 31,684.34 
 
 1911. Balance $31,684.34 
 
 31,684.34 
 
 82833—15- 
 
 -35 
 
546 
 
 INDIAN^A-PPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 FULFILLING TREATIES WITH CHOCTAWS— Continued. 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. Balance $31,684.34 1912. Disbursed.. 
 
 Appropriated 10,520.00 June 30. Balance. 
 
 42,204.34 I 
 
 1913. 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. Balance 317,769.69 
 
 Appropriated 10, 520. 00 
 
 28, 289. 69 
 
 1913. Disbursed.. 
 June 30. Balance. 
 
 $24,434.65 
 17,769.69 
 
 42,204.34 
 
 $17,769.69 
 10,520.00 
 
 28,289.69 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. Balance 
 
 Appropriated . 
 
 $10, 520. 00 
 10, 520. 00 
 
 1914. 
 June 30. Balance. 
 
 21, 040. GO 
 
 1915. 
 
 $21,040.00 
 
 21,040.00 
 
 1914. 
 
 July 1. Balance $21,040.00 
 
 Appropriated 10, 520. 00 
 
 31,560.00 
 
 Sept. 30. Balance $31,560.00 
 
 31,560.00 
 
 JUDGMENT COURT OF CLAIMS, CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW NATIONS. 
 
 1910 to 1912. 
 
 EXPENDITtraES, 
 
 1912. 
 S606, 936. 
 
 APPEOPEIATED 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. Appropriated 
 
 1914 
 Sept. 30. Balance 
 
 1912. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 
 Balance . . . 
 
 606, 936. 08 
 
 86.0S 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW INDIANS. 
 
 1902. 
 
 $606, 850. 00 
 
 606,850.08 
 
 RECEIPTS. 
 
 July 1. Amount on hand $98,001.00 
 
 Collections, 1902 
 
 1902. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand 
 
 Collections to Ian. 1, 1903.. 
 
 95, 883. 41 
 193,884.41 
 
 1903. 
 
 DISBURSEMENTS. 
 1902. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1902 $136, 499. 88 
 
 Balance on hand 57,384.53 
 
 193,884.41 
 
 $57,384.53 
 105,062.56 
 
 1903. 
 Jan. 26. Disbursed to date $50,080.71 
 
 Transferred to "Indian 
 moneys, proceeds of la- 
 bor, Chickasaw right of 
 way" 372.42 
 
 Transferred to "Indian 
 moneys, proceeds of la- 
 bor, Chickasaw royalties, 
 etc." 6,177.09 
 
 Transferred to "Indian 
 moneys, proceeds of la- 
 labor, Chickasaw, stone 
 andtimber" 24,223.53 
 
 Transferred to " Indian 
 moneys, proceeds of la- 
 bor Chickasaw town 
 lots" 81,593.34 
 
 162,447.09 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW CATTLE TAX. 
 
 1903. 
 
 1903. 
 
 June 16. Transferred from "Indian 
 moneys^ proceeds of la- 
 bor, Chickasaw royalties, 
 etc." 
 
 June 30. Collections, "iVoV.".'.!!; !!!!!! 
 
 $1,907.60 
 17, 714. 35 
 
 19,621.95 
 
 1903. 
 June 3. Disbursements, 1903 . 
 Balance on hand 
 
 162,447.09 
 
 $86S.27 
 18,756.68 
 
 19,621.95 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 547 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW CATTLE TAX-Continued. 
 
 1904. 
 
 1903. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $18,756.68 
 
 "-"-"— '""■ 20,092.10 
 
 Collections, 1904 
 
 1904. 
 July 1. Balance on liand. 
 Collections, 1905.. 
 
 1905. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1906.. 
 
 1906. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 CoUeotions,1907.. 
 
 38,848.78 
 
 1904. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1904 $33,608.22 
 
 Balance on hand 5,340.66 
 
 38,848.78 
 
 1905. 
 
 $5,340.56 
 25,878.62 
 
 31,219.18 
 
 1905. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1905 $21,698.94 
 
 "' ' .... 9,520.24 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 1906. 
 
 $9,520.24 
 16,306.14 
 
 1906. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1906. 
 Bala oe on hand 
 
 25,826.38 
 
 1907. 
 
 $4, 428. 93 
 
 4,428.93 
 
 1907. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1907. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 31,219.18 
 
 $21,397.45 
 4,428.93 
 
 25,826.38 
 
 $600. 00 
 3,928.93 
 
 4,428.93 
 
 1909. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1910.. 
 
 1910. 
 July 1. Balance on hand 
 
 1907. 
 
 $3,928.93 
 
 1908. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1908 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $2,521.69 
 
 CollecUons, 1908 
 
 
 1,407.34 
 
 
 3,928.93 
 
 3,928.93 
 
 
 1909. 
 
 
 
 1908. 
 July 1. Balance on hand 
 
 $1,407.34 
 
 1909. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements. 1909 
 
 ' 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $1,407.34 
 
 
 
 
 
 1,407.34 
 
 1,407.34 
 
 1910. 
 
 $1,407.34 
 
 1910. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1910. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 1,407.34 
 
 1911. 
 
 1911. 
 
 $1,368.00 
 39.34 
 
 1,407.34 
 
 $39.34 I June 30. Disbursements, 1911 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW, RIGHT OF WAY. 
 
 1903. 
 
 $39.34 
 
 1903. 
 
 Amount transferred from 
 "Indian moneys, pro- 
 ceeds of labor, Chicka- 
 saw" 
 
 Collections, 1903 
 
 $372. 42 
 267. 63 
 
 1913. 
 Jime 30. Disbursements, 1903. 
 Balance on hand . — 
 
 $639. 95 
 
 639.95 
 1904. 
 
 639. 95 
 
 1903. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1904.. 
 
 $639. 95 
 7, 776. 88 
 
 ;,416.83 
 
 1905. 
 
 June '30. Disbursements, 1904 $5, 397. 98 
 
 Balance on hand ^} "^»- s" 
 
 8, 416. 83 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand *^'SHk 
 
 Collections, 1905 a RFa Ah 
 
 :, 653. 36 
 
 7, 672. 21 
 
 Juiie 30. Disbursements, 1905 $6,038.67 
 
 Balance on^and ^^ "■'■'■ "* 
 
 7,672.21 
 
548 
 
 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW, RIGHT OF WAY-Contlnuod. 
 
 1906. 
 
 1905. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1906.. 
 
 $1, 633. 64 
 3, 866. 83 
 
 1906. 
 June 30. Disbursenaents, 1906. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 S, 500. 47 
 
 1907. 
 
 1906. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1907.. 
 
 S4, 990. 12 
 6, 104. 81 
 
 11,094.93 
 
 1907. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1907. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $510.35 
 4,990.12 
 
 5,600.47 
 
 $350.00 
 10,744.93 
 
 11,09493 
 
 July ' 1. Balance on hand $10, 744. 93 
 
 Collections, 1907 5,414.60 
 
 16, 159. 63 
 
 1909. 
 
 1908. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1908.. 
 Balance onhand 
 
 July ' 1. Balance on hand $15,932.03 
 
 Collections, 1909 285.81 
 
 1909. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1909. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $227.60 
 16,932.03 
 
 16,159.53 
 
 $16,217.84 
 
 16,217.84 18,217.84 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW RIGHT OF WAY. 
 
 1910. 
 
 1909. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $16, 217. 84 
 
 CoUections, 1910 348.59 
 
 16, 566. 43 
 
 1911. 
 
 1910. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1910 . 
 Balance on hand 
 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. Balance onhand $16,666.43 
 
 Collections, 1911 1, 262. 88 
 
 17,829.27 
 
 1912. 
 
 1911. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1911 . 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $16,666.43 
 16,566.43 
 
 $17,829.27 
 17,829.27 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $17,829.27 
 
 Collections, 1912 863. 69 
 
 1912. 
 July 1. Balance on hand . 
 Collections, 1913. . 
 
 1913. 
 July 1. Balance onhand. 
 Collections, 1914. . 
 
 1912. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1912. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 18,692.96 
 
 1913. 
 
 $11, 168. 14 
 92.20 
 
 1913. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1913., 
 Balance on hand . . . . . 
 
 11,260.34 
 
 1914. 
 
 $10, 529. 88 
 1,188.06 
 
 11,717.94 
 
 1915. 
 
 1914. 1914. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $11,717.94 
 
 Collections to Sept. 30, 1914 
 
 11,717.94 
 
 $7,524.82 
 11,168.14 
 
 18,692.96 
 
 $730.46 
 10,629.88 
 
 11,260.34 
 
 $11,717.94 
 11,717.94 
 
 Disbursements 
 
 Balance on hand $11,717.94 
 
 11,717.94 
 
 1914. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1914. 
 Balance on hand 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIAHON BILL. 
 
 INDLA.N MONEYS, PEOCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW ROYALTIES, ETC. 
 
 1903. 
 
 549 
 
 .1903. 
 Jan. 21 
 
 Amoimt transferred ftom 
 "Indian moneys, pro- 
 ceeds of labor, Chicka- 
 saw" 
 
 CoUeotions, 1903 
 
 $6,177.09 
 36,097.83 
 
 1903. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1903 $20,869.92 
 
 Transferred to "Indian 
 moneys, Choctaw cattle 
 
 „tax" 1,907.60 
 
 Balance on hand 19,507.40 
 
 
 
 42,274.92 
 
 
 
 42,274.92 
 
 
 
 1904. 
 
 
 
 1903. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 Collections, 1904 
 
 $19,507.40 
 77,887.28 
 
 1904. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1904 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $14,276.94 
 83,117.74 
 
 
 97,394.68 
 
 97,394.68 
 
 
 
 1905. 
 
 
 
 1904. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 CoUeotions, 1905 
 
 $83,117.74 
 48,342.45 
 
 131,460.19 
 
 1905. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1905 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $24,287.26 
 107,172.93 
 
 131,460.19 
 
 
 
 1906. 
 
 
 
 1905. 
 July 1 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 Collections, 1906 
 
 .... -$107,172.93 
 60,761.63 
 
 167,934.66 
 
 1906. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1906 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 .. 8150,085.39 
 17,848.63 
 
 167,934.56 
 
 
 
 1907 
 
 
 
 1906. 
 July 1 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 Collections, 1907 
 
 $17,848.63 
 77,775.59 
 
 95,624.22 
 
 1907. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1907 
 
 Balance on hand. 
 
 $31, 768. 48 
 63,866.74 
 
 
 
 95,624.22 
 
 
 
 1908. 
 
 
 
 1907. 
 July 1 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 Collections, 1908 
 
 $63,866.74 
 90,765.47 
 
 154,631.21 
 
 1908. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1908 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $66,872.28 
 97,768.93 
 
 164,631.21 
 
 
 
 1909. 
 
 
 
 1908. 
 July 1 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 Collections, 1909 
 
 $97,758.93 
 69,943.50 
 
 1909. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1909 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $86,326.76 
 82,375.68 
 
 
 167,702.43 
 
 167,702.43 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW ROYALTIES, ETC. 
 
 1910. 
 
 1909. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1910.. 
 
 $82, 375. 68 
 105, 398. 69 
 
 1910. 
 June 31 
 
 Disbursements, 1910 $64, 944. 38 
 
 Balance on hand 122, 829. 99 
 
 187, 774. 37 
 
 1911. 
 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $122,829.99 
 
 Collections, 1911 '410, 879. 18 
 
 633,709.17 
 
 1911. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1911 . ^Si'^SS'I? 
 
 Balance on hand '472,308.45 
 
 633, 709. 17 
 
 1912. 
 
 July ■ 1. Balance on hand $472,308.45 
 
 CoUeotions, 1912 87, 149. 18 
 
 1911. 
 July 1. Transferred to appropria- 
 tions Indian moneys, pro- 
 ceeds of labor, Chickasaw, 
 unallotted land , etc $354, 253. 34 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1912 .98, 672. 98 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 106, 531. 31 
 
 559, 467. 63 
 . $354,253.34 of this amount is proceeds of unallotted land and other tribal property. 
 
 559, 457. 63 
 
550 
 
 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PHOCEEDS OF LABOE, CHICKASAW ROYALTIES, ETC.— Continued. 
 
 1913. 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $106,531.31 
 
 Collections, 1913 79, 885. 33 
 
 1913. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1913. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 186, 416. 64 
 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $119,213.67 
 
 Collections, 1914 86, 016. 62 
 
 205, 230. 29 
 
 1915. 
 
 1914. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1914. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 867,202.97 
 119,213.67 
 
 186,416.64 
 
 $63,880.15 
 141,350.14 
 
 205,230.29 
 
 1914. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $141,350.14 
 
 Collection to Sept. 30, 1914.. 11,866.78 
 
 153, 216. 92 
 
 t. 30. Disbursed fli'st quarter 
 
 1915 $27,911.10 
 
 Balance on hand and in 
 hands of disbursing offl- 
 cers 125, 305. 82 
 
 153,218.92 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKA.SAW, STONE AND TIMBER. 
 
 1903. 
 
 1903. 
 Jan. 26. Amount transferred from 
 " Indian moneys, pro- 
 ceeds of labor, Chicka- 
 saw" 
 
 Collections, 1903 
 
 $24,223.53 
 2,974.88 
 
 27, 198. 41 
 
 1903. 
 June 30. Balance on hand $27,198.41 
 
 1904. 
 
 1903. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $27,198.41 
 
 Collections, 1904. 9, 953. 39 
 
 37, 151. 80 
 
 1904. 
 June 30. Balance on hand. 
 
 27,198.41 
 
 $37,151.8 
 
 37,151.80 
 
 1904. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1905.. 
 
 1906. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1906.. 
 
 $37,151.80 
 72.15 
 
 37,223.95 
 
 $36, 980. 69 
 
 1905. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1915 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $243.26 
 36,980.69 
 
 
 37,223.95 
 
 1906. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1906 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $33.65 
 36,947.04 
 
 1907. 
 
 1906. 
 
 Collections, 1907. 
 
 19D7. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1908.. 
 
 1908. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1909.. 
 
 $36,947.04 
 38.58 
 
 1907. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1907 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $200.00 
 36,785.62 
 
 36,985.62 
 
 36,985.62 
 
 1908. 
 
 
 
 $36,785.62 
 138.28 
 
 1908. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursements, 1908 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 ; ■■■■36,'923.'96 
 
 36,923.90 
 
 36,923.90 
 
 1909. 
 
 
 
 $36,923.90 
 1, 205. 41 
 
 1909, 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursed 1909 
 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 . $38,129.31 
 
 
 38,129.31 
 
 38,129.31 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 551 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PEOCEEDS OF LABOH, CHICKASAW, STONE AND TIME i E. 
 
 1910. 
 
 1909. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand 8:58,129.31 
 
 " ■■ -" - 4,063.59 
 
 Collections, 1910 
 
 42,182.! 
 
 1910. 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1910.. 
 Balance on hand . 
 
 835,000.00 
 7, 182. 90 
 
 42, 182. 90 
 
 1910. 
 July 1. Balance on hand . 
 Collections, 1911 . . 
 
 $7,182.90 
 12,185.87 
 
 1911. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1911. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 19,368.77 
 
 1912. 
 
 $19. 24 
 19,349.63 
 
 19,368.77 
 
 1911. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1912.. 
 
 1912. 
 July 1. Balance on hand . 
 Collections, 1913.. 
 
 1913. 
 July 1. Balance on hand . 
 Collections, 1914.. 
 
 $19,349.63 
 015.82 
 
 1912. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1912. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 19,965.35 
 
 1913. 
 
 $939. 21 
 424.94 
 
 1913. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1913. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 1,364.15 
 
 1914. 
 
 $1,364.15 
 62.14 
 
 1,426.29 
 
 1914. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1914. 
 Balance on hand 
 
 1915. 
 
 819,026.14 
 939. 21 
 
 19,965.35 
 
 $1,364.15, 
 1,364.15 
 
 $1,426.29 
 1„426.29 
 
 1914. 
 July 1. Balance on band SI, 426. 29 | 
 
 No receipts or disbursements after July 1, 1914. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PEOCEEDS OF LABOE, CHICKASAW TOWN LOTS. 
 
 1903. 
 
 1903. 
 Jan. 26. Amount transferred from 
 "Indian moneys, pro- 
 ceeds of labor, Chicka- 
 saw" 
 
 Collections, 1903 
 
 $81,593.34 
 37,297.43 
 
 118,890.77 
 
 June 30. Balance on hand $118,890.77 
 
 118,890.77 
 
 1903- 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand *H*'?S9'^I 
 
 Collections, 1904 ^9,401.72 
 
 208, 292. 49 
 
 1905. 
 
 1904, 
 
 30. Balance in hand $208,292.49 
 
 208,292.49 
 
 1904. 
 
 July ' 1. Balance on hand *?9?'?2?'f? 
 
 Collections, 1905 135,462.65 
 
 1905. 
 
 343, 765. 14 
 
 1906. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1905 ^ll'tfi'S 
 
 Balance on hand i i^,dii..ji. 
 
 343,755.14 
 
 1905. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand *Jt?'n5Hi 
 
 Collections, 1906 1^.943.62 
 
 267,275.53 
 
 JunTbo. Disbursements, 1906 i«' ??H? 
 
 Balance on hand ^lo, an. ai 
 
 267,276.53 
 
 1907 
 
 1906. 
 
 Balance onhand '^fiS'SHJ 
 
 Collections, 1907 127,489.41 
 
 338.206.72 
 
 JuiT-30. Pi=.^ursem_ents, B07_....... ^^,242.42 
 
 Balance on 
 
 338,205.72 
 
652 
 
 INDIAN APPEOi^EIATION BILL. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PEOCEEDS OF LABOE, CHICKASAW TOWN LOTS— Continued. 
 
 1908. 
 1907. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand «150, 963. 30 
 
 Collections, 1908 64,860.08 
 
 215,813.38 
 
 1909. 
 
 1908. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1908. 
 Balance on iaiid 
 
 $29,978.65 
 185,834.73 
 
 216,813.; 
 
 1908. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $185,834.73 
 
 Collections, 1909 21, 019. 08 
 
 206, 863. 81 
 
 1909. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1909 $91,518.97 
 
 ' ' ... 115,334.84 
 
 Balance on hand. 
 
 206,853.81 
 
 1910. 
 
 1909. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $115,334.84 
 
 Collections, 1910 16,685.62 
 
 1910. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1910. . 
 Balance on hand 
 
 $24,584.34 
 107,336.12 
 
 131,920.46 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OE LABOE, CHICICASAW TOWN LOTS. 
 
 1911. 
 
 131,920.46 
 
 - 1910. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand $107,336.12 
 
 Collections, 1911. 
 
 1911. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1911 $38,296.49 
 
 Balance on hand. 
 
 94, 165. 79 
 
 132,462.28 
 
 1912. 
 
 1911. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1912.. 
 
 $94, 165. 79 
 11,666.18 
 
 1912. 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1912.. 
 B alance on hand 
 
 106, 830. 97 
 
 1913. 
 
 132,462.28 
 
 $89,591.17 
 16,239.80 
 
 106,830.97 
 
 1912. 
 July 1. Balance on hand. 
 Collections, 1913.. 
 
 $16, 239. 80 
 6, 998. 96 
 
 1913. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1913 
 
 Balance on hand and in 
 Oklahoma banks 
 
 23,238.75 
 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 July 1. Balance on hand, etc $17,519.41 
 
 Collections, 1914 
 
 7, 018. 02 
 
 1914. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1914 
 
 Balance on hand and in 
 Oklahoma banks 
 
 24,537.43 
 
 1916. 
 
 1914. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand, etc 
 
 Collections to Sept. 30, 1914. 
 
 $19, 708. 03 
 811. 31 
 
 20,519.34 
 
 1916. 
 Sept. 30. Disbursed first quarter 1915 
 Balance on hand and in 
 Oklahoma banks 
 
 $6,719.34 
 17,519.41 
 23,238.75 
 
 $4,829.40 
 19,708.03 
 
 $2,362.60 
 
 I 18, 156. 84 
 
 20,619.34 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PEOCEEDS OF LABOE, CHICKASAW UNALLOTTED LANDS, ETC. 
 
 1912. 
 
 1911. 
 July 1. Amount transferred from 
 "Indian moneys, pro- 
 ceeds of labor, Chicka- 
 saw, royalties, etc." $364,253.34 
 
 Collected, 1911 311, 060. 97 
 
 1912. 
 
 June 30. Disbursements, 1911 
 
 Balance on hand, including 
 fimds on deposit in Okla- 
 homa banks 
 
 665,314.31 
 ' $10,000 in Central National Bank of Tulsa, Okla. 
 
 $31,978.88 
 633,335.46 
 666,314.31 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 553 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR^CHICKASAW UNALLOTED LiNDS, ETC- 
 
 1913. 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand, including • 
 
 fimds in Oklahoma banks $633,335.45 
 Collected, 1912 614, 449 25 
 
 1,247,734.70 
 
 1913. 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1913. 
 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1. Balance on hand, including 
 
 funds in banks $1, 243, 185. 41 
 
 CoUeoted, 1914 367, 412. 65 
 
 34,619.28 
 
 Balance on hand and in 
 Oklahoma banks 1,243,165.44 
 
 1,247,784.70 
 S6,251.4 9 
 
 1914. 
 June 30. Disbursed, 1914 
 
 Balance on hand and in 
 Oklahoma banks 1,604,326.66 
 
 1,610,578.09 
 
 1915. 
 
 1,610,578.09 
 
 1914. 
 July 1. Balance on hand, including 
 funds on deposit in Ok- 
 lahoma banks $1, 604, 326. 66 
 
 Collected, first quarter, 
 1915 
 
 9,801.02 
 
 1914. 
 Sept. 30. Disbursements,one quarter, 
 
 ^ 1916 $535,022.27 
 
 Balance on hand, on de- 
 posit in Oklahoma banks, 
 and in hands ot dis- 
 bursing officers 1,079,105.41 
 
 1,614,127.68 
 
 Summary. 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW. 
 
 1,614,127.68 
 
 
 Collections. 
 
 Disburse- 
 ments. 
 
 Amount on hand July 1, 1901 
 
 $98,001.00 
 
 95,883.41 
 105,062.66 
 
 
 Fiscal year: 
 
 1902 
 
 
 1903 
 
 50 080 71 
 
 Carried to other titles, June 26, 1903 
 
 112,360.38 
 
 
 
 
 
 298,946.97 
 
 29S,946.97 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW, C.VTTLE TAX. 
 
 Transferred from "Indian moneys, proceeds of labor, Chickasaw royalties," 
 June 16, 1903 
 
 $1,907.60 
 
 17,714.35 
 20,092.10 
 25,878.62 
 IB, 306. 14 
 
 
 Fiscal year: 
 
 1903 
 
 88C5.27 
 
 1904 
 
 33,508.22 
 
 1905. 
 
 21,698.94 
 
 1906 
 
 21,397.45 
 
 1907 
 
 500. 00 
 
 1908 
 
 
 2,521.59 
 
 
 
 
 1910 
 
 
 i,3(;s.oo 
 
 1911 
 
 
 39.34 
 
 
 
 
 
 Kl,898.81 
 
 si.sas.8i 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW, RIGHT OF WAY. 
 
 Amount on hand Jan. 26, 1903. . 
 Balance of fiscal year: 
 
 1903 
 
 1904 
 
 1905 
 
 1906 
 
 1907 
 
 1908 
 
 1909 
 
 1910 
 
 1911 
 
 1912 
 
 1913 
 
 1914 
 
 First quarter, 1915 
 
 $372. 42 
 
 267.53 
 7,776.88 
 4,653.36 
 3,866.83 
 6, 104. SI 
 5,414.60 
 
 285. SI 
 
 348.59 
 1,262.84 
 
 863.69 
 
 92.20 
 
 1,188.06 
 
 32,497.02 
 
 $5,397.98 
 
 6,038.57 
 
 510. 35 
 
 350. 00 
 
 227. 50 
 
 7,524.82 
 730. 46 
 
 11,717.! 
 
 32,497.62 
 
554 INDIAJf APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Summary — Continued . 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW ROYALTIES, ETC. 
 
 
 Collection.s. 
 
 Disburse- 
 ments! 
 
 
 $6,177.09 
 
 36,097.83 
 77,887.28 
 48, 342. 45 
 60,761.63 
 77, 775. 59 
 90,765.47 
 69,943.50 
 105,398.69 
 56, 625. 84 
 87,149.18 
 79,885.33 
 86,016.62 
 11,866.78 
 
 
 Balance of fiscal year: 
 
 1903 
 
 S22, 767. 52 
 
 
 14,276.94 
 
 1905 
 
 24, 287. 26 
 
 
 150,085.93 
 
 1907 
 
 31, 768. 48 
 
 
 56,872.28 
 
 1909 
 
 85, 326. 75 
 
 
 64,944.38 
 
 
 61, 400. 72 
 
 1912 
 
 98, 672, 98 
 
 1913 
 
 67,202.97 
 63,880.16 
 27,911.10 
 
 1914 
 
 
 
 125, 305. 82 
 
 
 
 
 
 894,693.28 
 
 894,693.28 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW, STONE AND TIMBER. 
 
 
 824,223.53 
 
 2,974.88 
 
 9,953.39 
 
 72.15 
 
 
 Balance of fiscal year: 
 1903 
 
 
 1904 
 
 
 1905 
 
 $243 26 
 
 1906 
 
 33.65 
 
 1907 .... 
 
 38.68 
 
 138.28 
 
 1,205.41 
 
 4,053.59 
 
 12,185.87 
 
 615.82 
 
 424. 94 
 
 62.14 
 
 200. 00 
 
 1908 
 
 
 1909 
 
 
 1910... 
 
 35,000.00 
 19.24 
 
 1911 
 
 1912 
 
 19,026.14 
 
 1913 
 
 1914 
 
 
 Sept. 30, 1915, balance on hand 
 
 1,426.29 
 
 
 
 
 
 55,948.58 
 
 65,948.68 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OF LABOR, CHICKASAW, TOWN LOTS. 
 
 Amount on hand Jan. 26, 1903 
 
 $81,593.34 
 
 37, 297. 43 
 
 83,401.72 
 
 135, 462. 65 
 
 124,943.62 
 
 127,489.41 
 
 64,850.08 
 
 21,019.08 
 
 16,585.62 
 
 26,126.16 
 
 11, 665. 18 
 
 6, 998. 95 
 
 7,018.02 
 
 811.31 
 
 
 Fiscel year: 
 
 1903 
 
 
 1904 
 
 
 1905 
 
 $201, 423. 23 
 
 1906 
 
 56,559.22 
 187,242.42 
 29, 978. 65 
 91,618.97 
 24,584.34 
 38,296.49 
 89 591 17 
 
 1907 
 
 1908 
 
 1909 
 
 1910 ■ """ 
 
 1911 
 
 1912 
 
 1913 
 
 5,719.34 
 4,829.40 
 2,362.60 
 18, 156. 84 
 
 1914 
 
 1915 . 
 
 Balance, including deposits in Oklahoma banks 
 
 
 
 
 
 750,262.67 
 
 750,262.57 
 
 INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OP LABOR, CHICKASAW, UNALLOTTED LANDS, ETC. 
 
 Proceeds of lands, etc., 1911 and prior years 
 
 S364,263.34 
 
 311,060.97 
 
 614,449.25 
 
 367,412.65 
 
 9, 801. 02 
 
 
 Fiscal year: 
 
 1912 
 
 $31,978.86 
 4 619 26 
 
 1913 
 
 1914 
 
 
 1 quarter, 1915 
 
 535; 022. 27 
 1,079,105.41 
 
 Balance on hand in Oklahoma banks and hands of disbursing olHcers, Sept. 
 30, 1915 --......,.,.... 
 
 
 
 
 1,656,977.23 
 
 1,656,977.23 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 SMmmarj/— Continued . 
 
 TOTAL RECEIPTS AND DISBURSEMENTS, 1903 TO 1915. 
 
 555 
 
 
 Receipts. 
 
 Disburse- 
 ments. 
 
 Balance. 
 
 Indiao moneys, proceeds of labor: 
 
 Chickasaws 
 
 Chiokasaw cattle tax 
 
 S298,946.97 
 81,898.81 
 32,497.62 
 894, 693. 28 
 55,948.58 
 750, 262. 57 
 1,656,977.23 
 
 S298,946.97 
 
 81,898.81 
 
 20,779.68 
 
 769,387.46 
 
 54,622.29 
 
 732,105.73 
 
 577, 871. 82 
 
 
 Chickasaw right of way 
 
 Chickasaw royalties, etc 
 
 '""sii,"7i7."94 
 
 Chickasaw stone and tunber 
 
 
 Chickasaw town lots 
 
 
 Chickasaw unallotted lands, etc 
 
 11,079,105.41 
 
 
 
 3, 771, 225. 06 
 
 2,535,512.76 
 
 1,235,712.30 
 
 ' Including funds deposited in Oklahoma banks. 
 
 CHICKASAW NATIONAL FUND. 
 
 1902. 
 
 1901. 
 July 1 
 
 RECEIPTS. 
 
 Balance on hand 
 
 . SI, 206, 695. 66 
 60, 000. 00 
 
 1902. 
 June 30 
 
 EXPENDIT0EES. 
 
 Disbursed 
 
 Balance '. 
 
 $10,000.00 
 1,256,695.66 
 
 
 
 
 
 1,266,695.66 
 
 
 
 1,266,695.68 
 
 
 
 1903. 
 
 
 
 1902. 
 July 1 
 
 Balance 
 
 . $1,256,695.66 
 
 1903. 
 
 Disbursed 
 
 B alance 
 
 $50,000.00 
 1,206,695.66 
 
 
 1,256,695.68 
 
 1,256,695.66 
 
 
 
 1904. 
 
 
 
 1913. 
 July 1 
 
 Balance 
 
 1 1904. 
 . $1,206,675.66 | 
 
 1905. 
 
 Balance 
 
 81,206,695.66 
 
 1904. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance 
 
 . $1,206,695.66 
 
 1905. 
 
 Disbursed 
 
 Balance 
 
 $187,500.00 
 1,019,195.66 
 
 
 1,206,695.66 
 
 1,206,69.5.66 
 
 
 
 1906. 
 
 
 
 1905. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance 
 
 . $1,019,195.66 
 
 1906. 
 June 30 
 
 Disbursed 
 
 Balance 
 
 $298,494.08 
 720,701.58 
 
 
 1,019,195.66 
 
 1,019,195.66 
 
 
 
 1907. 
 
 
 
 1906. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance 
 
 $720,701.58 
 
 1907. 
 June 30 
 
 Disbursed 
 
 Balance 
 
 $288,057.45 
 432, 644. 13 
 
 
 720,701.58 
 
 720,701.58 
 
 
 
 1908. 
 
 
 
 1907. 
 July 1. 
 
 
 $432,644.13 
 
 1908. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursed 
 
 $59,927.51 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 432, 644. 13 
 
 432,644.13 
 
 
 
 1909. 
 
 
 
 1908. 
 July 1. 
 
 
 $372,716.62 
 
 1909. 
 June 30. 
 
 Disbursed 
 
 $140,521.09 
 232,195.53 
 
 
 Balance 
 
 
 
 
 372,716.62 
 
 372,716.62 
 
556 
 
 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL, 
 
 CHICKASAW NATIONAL FUND— Continued. 
 1910. 
 
 1909. 
 July 1. 
 
 1910 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance. 
 
 $232,195.53 
 
 232, 195. 53 
 
 1910. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance . . . 
 
 Balance. 
 
 1911. 
 July 1. Balance. 
 
 1911. 
 
 I 1911. 
 $223,122.79 I June 30. Balance. 
 
 1912. 
 
 1912. 
 $223,122.79 June 30. Disbursed. 
 
 Balance. 
 
 1912. 
 July 1. 
 
 1913. 
 July 1. 
 
 1914. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance. 
 
 223, 122. 79 
 
 1913. 
 
 $221,130.15 
 
 1913. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance... 
 
 Balance. 
 
 221, 130. 15 
 
 1914. 
 
 $216,099.38 
 
 1914. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance . . . 
 
 216,099.38 
 
 1915. 
 
 Balance . 
 
 $211, 270. 96 
 
 1914. 
 Sept. 30. Balance. 
 
 1914. 
 Sept. 30. Disbursed.'.. 
 Balance 
 
 211,270.96 
 
 $210,915.26 
 
 INTEREST ON CHICKASAW NATIONAL FUND. 
 1902. 
 
 1901. 
 July 1. 
 
 1902. 
 July 1. 
 
 1903. 
 July 1. 
 
 1904. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance on hand $55, 572. 75 
 
 Interest credited, 1902 60, 334. 78 
 
 1902. 
 June 30. Disbursed., 
 Balance. -- 
 
 $9,072.74 
 223, 122. 79 
 
 115,907.63 
 
 1903. 
 
 Balance $45, 572. 75 
 
 Interest, 1903 60, 831. 02 
 
 Excess interest credited 3, 000. 00 
 
 232,195.63 
 
 $223,122.79 
 
 $1,992.64 
 221,130.15 
 
 223,122.79 
 
 $5,030.77 
 216,099.38 
 
 221,130.15 
 
 $4,828.42 
 211,270.96 
 
 216,099.38 
 
 $355. 70 
 210,915.26 
 
 211,270.96 
 
 $70,334.78 
 46,672.75 
 
 115,907.63 
 
 Disbursed .- 
 
 Excess interest carried to 
 
 surplus lund 
 
 Balance 
 
 109,403.77 
 
 1904. 
 
 Balance $45,672.75 
 
 Interest, 1904 60,334.78 
 
 1904. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance... 
 
 105,907.63 
 
 1905. 
 
 Balance $45,572.75 
 
 Interest, 1905 60,334.78 
 
 105,907.53 
 
 1905. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance... 
 
 $60,831.02 
 
 3,000.00 
 45,572.76 
 
 109,403.77 
 
 $60,334.78 
 45,572.76 
 
 106,907.63 
 
 $60,334.78 
 45,672.76 
 
 105,907.53 
 
 1905. 
 July 1. 
 
 Balance $46,572.75 
 
 Interest, 1906 ,. 47,197.36 
 
 92,770.11 
 
 1906. 
 June 30. Disbursed. 
 Balance. .. 
 
 $47,197.36 
 45,572.75 
 
 92,770.11 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 557 
 
 INTEREST ON CHICKASAW NATIONAL FUND— Continued. 
 1907. 
 
 1906. 
 
 July 1. Balance $45,672.76 
 
 Interest, 1907... 1 35,761.40 
 
 81,334.15 
 
 1907. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $29,461.11 
 
 Balance 61, 883. 04 
 
 81,334.15 
 
 1908. 
 
 1907. 
 
 July 1. Balance 561,883.04 
 
 Interest, 1908 22,751.10 
 
 74,634.14 
 
 1908. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $40,200.36 
 
 Balance 34,433.79 
 
 74.634.79 
 
 1908. 
 
 July 1. Balance $34,433.79 
 
 Interest, 1909 17,021.82 
 
 1909. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $28,772.80 
 
 Balance 22, 682. 81 
 
 51,455.61 
 
 INTEKEST ON CHICKASAW NATIONAL FUND. 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. Balance $22,682.81 
 
 Interest, 1910 11,594.66 
 
 1910. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $17,90L22 
 
 Balance 16,376.25 
 
 34,277.47 
 
 1911. 
 
 34,277.47 
 
 1910. 
 
 July 1. Balance $16,376.25 
 
 Interest, 1911 11,122.44 
 
 27,498.69 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $20,763.36 
 
 Balance 6,736.33 
 
 27,498.69 
 
 1912. 
 
 1911. 
 
 July 1. Balance $6,735.33 
 
 Interest, 1912 11,156.14 
 
 17,89L47 
 
 1913. 
 
 1912. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $16,052.79 
 
 Balance 1,838.68 
 
 17,891.47 
 
 1913 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $12,531.45 
 
 Balance 304.10 
 
 12,835.65 
 
 1914. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed *2'5?fJ? 
 
 Balance 8,401.99 
 
 10,996.12 
 
 1912. 
 
 July 1. Balance $1,838.68 
 
 Interest, 1913 10,996.87 
 
 12,835.65 
 
 1914. 
 
 1913. 
 
 July 1, Balance $304.10 
 
 Interest, 1914 10,691.92 
 
 10,996.12 
 
 1915. 
 
 Jvay*"L Balance «8-«1.99 I Sept.V Balance $13,667.31 
 
 Interest, 6 months 6,266.32 
 
 13,667.31 I 13,667.31 
 
 INTEREST ON CHICKASAW "rNCOMPETENT FUND. 
 1902. 
 
 Jui^k Balance $2U,mA9 
 
 216,679.49 
 
 1901. 
 
 July 1. Balance $216,679.49 
 
 216, 679. 49 
 
 1903. 
 
 July°^l. Balance $216,679.49 
 
 216, 679. 49 
 
 1903. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed *^^?'^725 
 
 Balance 57, 437. 25 
 
 216, 679. 49 
 
558 
 
 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 INTEREST ON CHICKASAW INCOMPETENT FUND— Continued. 
 1904. 
 
 1903. 
 
 July 1. Balance SS7,437.26 
 
 1904. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed 136,345.40 
 
 Balance 21,091.85 
 
 57,437.25 
 
 1906. 
 
 67,437.26 
 
 1904. 
 
 July 1. Balance $21,091.85 
 
 21,091.85 
 
 1905. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $14,882.68 
 
 Balance 6,209.17 
 
 21,091.85 
 
 1906. 
 
 1905. 
 July 1. Balance. 
 
 $6, 209. 17 
 
 6,209.17 
 
 1906. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed $4,240.00 
 
 Balance 1,969.17 
 
 6, 209. 17 
 
 1907. 
 
 1906. 
 
 July 1. Balance $1,969.17 
 
 1907. 
 
 June 30. Disbursed 81,655.87 
 
 Balance 413. 30 
 
 1,969.17 
 
 1908. 
 
 1,969.17 
 
 1907. 
 July 1. Balance. 
 
 $413. 30 
 
 Jxme 30. Balance. 
 
 $413. 30 
 
 413. 30 
 
 1909 to 1912. 
 
 1908. I 1912. 
 July 1. Balance $413.30 | June 30. Disbursed , 
 
 FULFILLING TREATIES WITH CHICKASAWS. 
 
 1901, appropriated $3,000.00 | )9 12, disbursed... 
 
 413. 30 
 
 $413. 30 
 
 $3,000.(0 
 
 AMENDING SECTION 2 OF THE ACT OF MAECH 2, 1907 (34 STAT L., 1221.) 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, we included in our estimates this year 
 the following item: 
 
 That section two of the act approved March second, nineteen hundred and seven 
 (Thirty- fourth Statutes at Large, page twelve hundred and twenty-one), entitled 
 "An act providing for the allotment and distribution of Indian tribal funds" be, and 
 the same is hereby, amended so as to read as follows: 
 
 " Sec. 2. That the pro rata share of any Indian who is mentally, physically, or other- 
 wise incapable of managing his or her own affairs may be withdrawn from the Treas- 
 ury in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior and expended for the benefit of 
 such Indian under such rules, regulations, and conditions as the said Secretary may 
 prescribe. " 
 
 This legislation is for the purpose of broadening the scope of the 
 act of March 2, 1907, so as to include in that legislation certain classes 
 of Indians who are not now permitted to withdraw their funds under 
 the act in question. They are able-bodied Indians, who are capable 
 of using their money to advantage, and yet under the construction 
 placed on the act of March 2, 1907, by the law officers of the Govern- 
 ment, we are without authority to withdraw those funds from the 
 Treasury and use them for the benefit of those Indians. Under the act 
 we can use the funds in the Treasury for the benefit of the competent 
 Indians, and we can also use their funds for the benefit of the old and 
 decrepit Indians. But there is another class, the able-^bodied incom^ 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 559 
 
 petent Indians, and the law is not sufficiently broad to permit us to 
 use their funds for their benefit. In fact, they are better qualified 
 to use their funds than the old and decrepit Indians. We would Hke 
 to have this act broadened so that we can use these funds for the bene- 
 fit of the Indians on their allotments —to buy teams and farmin? 
 equipment, m helping them to buy homes, and for other purposes 
 It will be very beneficial legislation 
 
 We have some Indians here from Oklahoma led by Lone Wolf who 
 has brought up this very question to the office at this time. We told 
 him that we had this legislation included in our estimates, and we 
 would like, if agreeable, for Mr. Lone WoM to make a short statement 
 on this pomt. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Chan-man, if I recollect right, we had this matter 
 up last year and it provoked a great deal of discussion. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That was another item, Senator. 
 
 Senator Page. Was it not a similar item ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; that item was in connection with the state- 
 ment made by Mr. Dimmick. It was an entirely different item. 
 
 Senator Gronna. How many Indians would be affected by the 
 proposed amendment, Mr. Commissioner ? Can you give it approxi- 
 mately ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I could only give a guess, Senator. I should say that 
 probably there would be 8,000 Indians that would be affected by this 
 legislation. 
 
 Senator Owen. Where are they — in Oklahoma ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They are located throughout the United States. This 
 is general legislation and it would apply to all Indians who have tribal 
 or trust funds in the Treasury of the United States, excepting Osage 
 and Five Tribe Indians. 
 
 Senator Owen. And who are incompetent ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. And who are incompetent, but able-bodied, and who 
 can use their funds on their allotments. It will simply permit the 
 Secretary of the Interior in his discretion to withdraw these funds from 
 the Treasury of the United States and deposit them in local banks, 
 and then use the funds for the benefit of those Indians. As it is now 
 the Secretary's hands are tied, and those Indians have funds in the 
 Treasury 
 
 Senator Owen. You can only give it to them directly ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We can not withdraw their funds at all under existing 
 law. It is to their interest that they may be permitted to use these 
 funds for industrial purposes. 
 
 Senator Owen. This money is on deposit bearing interest ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Bearing 3, 4, and in some cases 5 per cent interest. 
 
 Senator Page. I remember that this matter came up last year, and 
 we had a great deal of discussion about it. I do not recall exactly 
 what was said, but I think I remember this one pomt, and that was 
 that we were allowing the Indian agents a great deal of latitude m 
 placing in his hands the power and the opportunity to practice graft 
 to a great extent. That was the talk last year, if I remember right, 
 in regard to this same matter. 
 
 Senator Gkonna. In asking the question how many Indians would 
 be affected I was prompted to do that by what we were told here the 
 other day with reference to the enormous scandalous commissions 
 that were being charged the Indians, with the permission ot the 
 
560 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Indian agents, in certain places. There is one place in jparticular 
 which I thiak should be investigated, because we are told that ad- 
 vances have been made to certain Indians and they h.ave been 
 charged a rate as high as 40 per cent. I say that is scandalous. 
 
 Senator Townsend. As low as 40 per cent, and as high as 200 per 
 cent. 
 
 Senator Geonna. They are our wards and I think it is our duty to 
 look after them. I for one am perfectly willing to permit the Indian 
 Office or the Secretary of the Interior to use these funds, but I am not 
 willing to let it go through the hands of these men that we know, if the 
 testimony that has been presented to this committee is true — and I 
 presume it is — have allowed them to be charged the scandalous rate of 
 from 40 per cent up. 
 
 Senator Owen. I was shown a most remarkable exhibit some days 
 ago by Senator Lane, showing about a teaspoonful of beans that was 
 being served out to those people as a day's rations. It struck me 
 with so much astonishment that I did not think it was credible. It 
 looked impossible to me that an officer of the Government would pre- 
 tend to support a human being on 12 beans a day. There were about 
 12 or 15 beans in that teaspoonful, not perhaps quite full, being fur- 
 nished to these people for a day's rations. I would not like to have 
 an Indian agent of that kind handling these funds and investing them 
 for the benefit of the Indians. I am afraid the Indians' benefit would 
 not be accomplished. 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, would you like to have the money placed 
 in the local bank ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I would like to have it given to the Indian to spend 
 as he pleases. If we are not going to keep it in the Treasury, I would 
 like to have the Indian have the privilege of at least looking at it and 
 seeing what it looked like. 
 
 Senator Page. Would you like to have it placed in the local bank, 
 at the disposition of the Indian agent at that point ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I would not. I would like to have it given to 
 the Indian with the provision primarily that any one who took it 
 from him would be punished. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Did I understand you, Mr. Meritt, that 
 under existing law you can not use any of these Indians' money for 
 their relief if they are in a destitute condition and are suffering? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we can not withdraw the money of this 
 class of Indians out of the Treasury of the United States under 
 existing law. We are attempting to get the act broadened so that 
 the Secretary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs 
 in their discretion can use this money for the benefit of those In- 
 dians, or pay it to them direct. The superintendent will not have 
 an opportunity to use these funds. It will be entirely within the 
 discretion of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary 
 of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Owen. Do they have a special agent that they could 
 handle this fund through, or must it necessarily be put in the hands 
 of the local agent ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We could handle it through a special agent if that 
 were deemed necessary. We usually buy the farming equipment 
 for the Indians through the local agents. This legislation is very 
 desirable. The Indians now are required to borrow money to meet 
 their necessities at an enormous rate of interest, when they have 
 
IJNJJIAJN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 561 
 
 fTlJ^"^^" own in the Treasury of the United States drawing 
 
 L\w1o\K:f i:;.^*' ^^^ '-' *^^^ -« -^ p^^t^^ unS? 
 
 Senator TowNSEND. You say that they borrow money Who 
 
 ;:^X^ZjT "^"^^ ^ *'^^^ -^^ - p-^p-* «f t^eir re? 
 
 Mr Meeitt. Senator, around each Indian reservation there are 
 people who are wiUing to lend the Indians money with the hope 
 that after their crops are gathered the Indians will pay back that 
 money. That is a matter that can not be controlled fey any regula- 
 tion or any law. It is done at many of the reservations. The 30 
 per cent and 40 per cent mterest rate, that was referred to a few 
 mmutes ago, comes up m connection with the Osage Agency That 
 matter is bemg investigated to-day by the joint commission— a hear- 
 ing is being held on that matter to-day. There have been enormous 
 rates ot interest charged at the Osage Agency during the past five or 
 ten years. We are trying very hard to correct that abuse. There 
 are sonie drHiculties m the way, but we have sent to that agency 
 one of the strongest men m the Indian Service, Mr. J. George Wright 
 who has a splendid record, and we beheve that we wiU be able to 
 control that situation at that agency. 
 
 Senator Geoxna. I desire to say, Mr. Meritt, that I have great 
 confidence m the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and his assist- 
 ants, and the Secretary of the Interior, and I do not wish to place 
 any obstruction in their way. 
 
 Senator Owen. I feel the same way. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it not possible, Mr. Meritt, that you could draft 
 some law that we could put into this appropriation bill so that it 
 would make it an unpleasant thing for those superintendents there to 
 prey upon these weak Indians in Oklahoma? You say the Osage 
 Agency is one of the leading points where this is practiced. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have drafted an item of legislation, Mr. Chairman, 
 that we believe wiU be helpful to us at the Osage Agency, and whUe 
 Senator Owen is here I would hke to read this draft of proposed leg- 
 islation. It reads as follows: 
 
 That payments of interest, royalties, or other trust funds hecoming due from time 
 to time to any individual member of the Osage Tribe of Indians under any law may 
 be withheld, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, or the funds may be used 
 for the benefit of such Indian, or his heirs, under such rules and regulations as the 
 Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. 
 
 Senator Owen. Would that postpone their per capita payments ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It was brought out by Senator Lane at the hearings a 
 few days ago that enormous amounts of money were paid to the Osage 
 Indians, and that the bankers and the money lenders and other inter- 
 ested people in the town of Pawhuska would get these Indians in debt 
 with the knowledge that every quarter they would receive these pay- 
 ments from the Government. We are required under the law to pay 
 the Indians these funds. We have no discretion in the matter of 
 withholding those funds and depositing them to the credit of the 
 Indians. As a result enormous rates of interest are charged the 
 Indians for loans by money lenders who know that every quarter 
 they will receive certain funds. It is for the purpose of trying to 
 control that situation at Osage that we have appointed Mr. Wright 
 superintendent and that we are asking for this legislation. 
 
 82833—15 36 
 
562 lUDIAI v A±-±-J^u±-aiJi.LluiN JiXJ^i^. 
 
 Senator Owen. Why would it not be better to make it a penalty 
 to charge a usurious rate to the Indians? 
 
 Senator TowNSEND. Do you not have any usury laws in your State? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; we do. They are not very strong. They 
 provide for a forfeiture of the interest, I think, but I do not think the 
 law down there amounts to very much. But if the Government 
 should penalize the grafting on these people as long as they are in the 
 attitude of wards, I should think that might cover it. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There would be a question of law involved there. 
 The Osage Indians are recognized as citizens. It would be a question 
 of whether or not Congress would have the authority to enact laws 
 regarding interest in the State of Oklahoma, in view of the fact that 
 the Osage Indians are citizens. 
 
 Senator Owen. I was only speaking of those who were confessedly 
 the wards of the Government. I take it from what you say that the 
 property of the Osages is still regarded as within the control of the 
 Government, while his person is not ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; in some cases the Indians are citizens. 
 
 Senator Owen. I am speaking of the Osages. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The property of the Osages is under the control of the 
 Interior Department, the property held under trust. The Osages are 
 recognized as citizens. While we have a certain jurisdiction over 
 them we have not the jurisdiction we have over Indians who are 
 recognized as noncitizens. 
 
 Senator Owen. It is an extremely difficult problem to protect a 
 man in his property interests where the man himself does not nave any 
 proper valuation of property rights. With the man who does not 
 care whether he has property or not, it is very hard to protect his 
 property rights, because whenever he gets it he will dissipate it, if he 
 does not care for it. It comes down to the point of not letting him 
 have the personal use of it, because he is going to lose it in that way, or 
 treating him perpetually as a child, and just furnishing him with the 
 necessaries of life which you wish him to have. I think it comes down 
 to that alternative. 
 
 Senator Page. Is there not a general feeling throughout the country 
 that there is a pretty good percentage of the people of Oklahoma who 
 hang around the wealthy Indians who are about to come into posses- 
 sion of their property and who live by extortionate rates of interest 
 and swindling the Indians there ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I suppose there are some who live by graft. There 
 are a great many who graft on the Indians who have property or 
 immediate prospects of getting some, and that is peculiarly true of the 
 Osage Indians, who are very rich. 
 
 Senator Page. Where the carrion is there the vultures gather. 
 
 Senator Owen. That is only another way of saying what I have 
 said. As I say, you are face to face with these two alternatives, 
 either not letting him have the money or letting him have enough day 
 by day, week by week, or month by month, just a certain amount, 
 and you must anticipate that after he gets it to a ceratin extent he 
 wiU be grafted upon. My opinion is that to build up character in a 
 man you must put some responsibihty on him. You can take a 
 white boy and give him a fixed stipend every month, and you will 
 ruin him. I have spoiled several myself that way. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 563 
 
 Senator Page. If you will take the next generation and put them 
 where they have a sort of fair chance with the white man 
 
 Senator Owen. You need not go into the next generation. You 
 have got to deal with this problem to-day, and the question is what 
 pohcy are we going to pursue. This book, My Friend, the Indian, 
 written by one of the oldest of the inspectors takes the ground at 
 last that the Indian does better when he is let alone. What is his 
 name, Mr. Meritt * 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Maj. McLaughlin. 
 
 Senator Owen. He has spent his whole life with the Indians and 
 he says that the Indian is taught self-reliance by being let alone. 
 The Narajos learned how to make blankets and support themselves 
 out of their herds, and so forth, without interference. I think that 
 taking charge of a man and interfering with him continually has the 
 effect of depriving him of self-reliance and initiative, and instead of 
 his being a self-supporting man he is more apt to become a dependent 
 man. 
 
 Senator Page. I think that the committee had better take a recess 
 now. 
 
 The Chairman. The committee will now take a recess until 3.30 
 
 o'clock. 
 
 (Thereupon, at 12 o'clock m., the committee took a recess until 
 3.30 o'clock p. m.) 
 
 after recess. 
 
 The committee reassembled at 3.30 o'clock p. m., whereupon, 
 owing to important business of members of the committee on the 
 floor of the Senate, an adjournment was directed until to-morrow, 
 Thursday, February 4, 1915, at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 1915. 
 
 Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate, 
 
 The committee met at 10 o'clock a m ^^^^^ngton, D. C. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurat (chairman), Pittman, Lane, Robinson, 
 
 Thompson, Owen, Clapp, Page, Gronna, and Tow^send. ' 
 
 iiie Chairman The first item for our consideration this mornine 
 
 Mows "" tentative draft of the biU at page 9, hne 15, ai 
 
 For expenses of Board of Indian Commissioners, $4,000. 
 
 INDIAN COUNCIL, CHIPPEWA INDIANS, MINNESOTA. 
 
 Senator Clapp. While that matter is pending, I desire to state 
 that the delegation that is here from Minnesota has seen Senator 
 Lane, and they want a different provision put in the bUl in reference 
 to this coimcil. I think perhaps it is all right and I move to sub- 
 stitute the amendment I now submit for adoption in the bill. 
 
 (The amendment referred to is as follows:) 
 
 That the sum of S4,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the tribal funds 
 of the Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota, is hereby appropriated to pay 
 the expenses of the general council of said tribe to be held at Bemidji, Minnesota, 
 beginning July thirteenth, nineteen hundred and fifteen, pursuant to the constitu- 
 tion of the general council of said Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, organized in May, 
 nineteen hundred and thirteen, and to pay the actual and necessary expenses of 
 the members of the executive committee of said council when attending to the busi- 
 ness of the tribe, and to pay the expenses to Washington, in January and February, 
 mmeteen hundred and fifteen, of the delegation of Chippewa Indians of the State of 
 Minnesota, appointed by the president of said general council pursuant to the reso- 
 lution of said general council of date August fourteenth, nineteen hundred and four- 
 teen, to present the affairs of said Chippewa Indians of_ the State of Minnesota to the 
 officials of the United States, said $4,000 to be immediately available, and the ex- 
 penses of said delegation to be paid by the Secretary of the Interior upon itemized 
 accounts approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the expenses of said 
 general council to be paid by the Secretary of the Interior upon itemized accounts 
 approved by the president of the executive committee of said council and certified 
 to by its secretary. The Secretary of the Interior may authorize an inspector or 
 special agent to attend future sessions of said general council and conventions to which 
 oelegates therefor are elected. 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to.) 
 
 EXPENSES OF BOARD OF INDIAN COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 Senator Page. :Mr. Chairman, I am free to say that while I have 
 great respect for the department, I want to see somebody here who 
 more fully represents the Indians than they are now represented. 
 If that commission is a good commission I am m favor of a much 
 larger salary than we are now giving them 
 
 The Chairman. You do not mean salary; you mean expenses. 
 
 565 
 
566 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Seantor Clapp. We have indicated to the Board of Indian Com- 
 missioners that is present that they may give their views for the 
 record in the form of writing, and while I am in hearty accord with 
 your idea, still I think we should hear them. 
 
 Senator Page. If they are here we will hear them. 
 
 STATEMENT OF ME. GEORGE VAUX, PRESIDENT OF THE 
 BOARD OF INDIAN COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 Mr. Vaux. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, the Board of Indian Com- 
 missioners feel that at such a busy time in the short session it was not 
 probable that the committee would desire to give a great deal of time 
 to this board. We have, therefore, presented in writing, at your 
 request, Mr. Chairman, a number of suggestions that have been 
 printed; I have a copy in my hand. I imagine possibly the point 
 that you would hke to hear from us at the moment, and which we 
 would hke you to take into consideration, is the question of the appro- 
 priation for the board. We have not much ^to say upon that point 
 m view of the facts that have been disclosed as a result of the generous 
 action of Congress last year. Up to last year, and for a number of 
 years, the board had received an appropriation of $4,000 a year to 
 cover salaries and incidentals and traveling expenses of members of 
 the board. Last year through your generosity — that is, for the cur- 
 rent fiscal year — the amount was increased to $10,000, which has 
 enabled the board for the first time in a very considerable number of 
 years to really do the sort of work which it has felt that it ought to 
 do in order to be able to reaUy accomplish the purposes for which it 
 was formed. 
 
 A number of different investigations have been already conducted. 
 The reports of those investigations, msofar as they have been com- 
 pleted and approved by the board, have aheady been transmitted 
 to the Secretary of the Interior, as it is the intention of the board 
 that everything should first go to the Secretary of the Interior in 
 order that he may be informed precisely what the board is doing. 
 There are other reports which are pending before the board, and 
 which will be adopted before our session in Washington closes this 
 week. Commissioner Eliot made an extensive tour to the extreme 
 Northwest — the Puget Sound country — and has presented a report 
 which covers a very comprehensive statement of conditions there. 
 Commissioner Morehead has just returned from some further inves- 
 tigation in Oklahoma. His report was presented last night, and is 
 in process of being typewritten for the Secretary. The report on 
 open-market purchases which involves a considerable point of in- 
 terest in connection with the expenditure of Indian funds, was ap- 
 proved by the board at its session last night, and has been trans- 
 mitted to the Secretary of the Interior. Other reports which are 
 pending before the board are those with respect to the Fort Peck 
 Reservation and the Flathead Reservation, where investigations 
 were made by Commissioner Ketcham, but those reports have not as 
 yet been approved. There is a very comprehensive report on the 
 Indian administration of the Dominion of Canada, which was made 
 by the secretary of the board, he* having, at the board's direction, 
 spent several weeks in Canada during the last late summer and early 
 autumn, and where it was thought, by reason of administrative 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 567 
 
 methods and policies there, there might be much stiggestion found 
 that would be of service in our own admmistrative course. In addi- 
 tion to that, there are several other investigations which are con- 
 templated for this spring and during the current fiscal year. 
 
 I simply refer to those as the sort of work which the board feels 
 itself equipped to do if it is supplied with the necessary actual ex- 
 penses, and that is the kind of work that we want to keep on with if 
 Congress in its wisdom considers it is a valuable thmg for us to do. 
 
 Senator Page. You would like just what you had last year, would 
 you? 
 
 Mr. Vaux. That woidd be our suggestion. Senator. 
 
 Senator Page. Now, inasmuch as "this comes before us for action 
 this session, could you have some one who has made investigations 
 give us your views in regard to the distribution of the funds for the 
 Indian tribes in Oklahoma; you say you made a study of that? 
 
 Mr. Vaux. Some phases of the conditions in Oklahoma have been 
 investigated. Commissioner Morehead has just returned — he got in 
 yesterday — from an investigation. 
 
 Senator Page. You know there is a proposition before the com- 
 mittee now for consideration to pay $200 to one tribe and $100 to 
 another tribe of Indians, and that is a matter that is to be passed 
 upon, as I understand it, before very long. If you have any views 
 ia regard to that particularly, or if some one here has made investiga- 
 tions with regard to that, I, for one, would be very glad to get those 
 views, as they may aid us in our action at this time. 
 
 Mr. Vaux. Mr. Morehead can speak as to that 
 
 Senator Page. I did not mean to interrupt you, Mr. Vaux. You 
 may proceed with your remarks. I supposed that you had arrived 
 at a point where you could be interrogated. 
 
 Mr. Vaux. That was all I had to say. With reference to the ques- 
 tion of what you might consider the justification for the board's 
 existence in the work it has done, I do not know that it is necessary 
 to enlarge on the matters that are referred to in the typewritten state- 
 ment which was submitted to each member of the committee, and 
 which appears on page 269 and subsequent pages of Part III of the 
 Hearings. Those matters, I think, are all probably fully presented 
 there unless there is some point that some Senator would like to have 
 an expression of view about. -n , • ji 
 
 Passing that for a moment, I wiU ask Mr. Ehot if he wiU kindly 
 express his views on the subject of distribution of funds to Indians m 
 Oklahoma that Senator Page has just spoken of. 
 
 STATEMENT OF ME. WAEEEN K. MOEEHEAD, OF THE BOAED 
 OF INDIAN COMMISSIONEES. 
 
 Mr. Morehead. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I would say that 
 although Mr. Vaux very kindly mentioned my speaking on this sub- 
 ject, I went to Oklahoma, confining my work to McCurtain County 
 with the Choctaw Indians, for the purpose of investigating the health 
 and Uving conditions, agriculture etc.,. of the Chpctaws 
 
 Senator Page. If you have made no investigation, or if you do not 
 ca?e to sav anything with regard to the distribution of the funds I do 
 S care forTnytMng furthe?. You do not care to speak about that? 
 
568 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. MoREHEAD. I did not go for that purpose; no, sir. I went for 
 a different purpose. I have nothing in particular to say at this time. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Some one spoke, in connection with this appropri- 
 ation, of "salaries." As I understand it, no salary is paid except to 
 the secretary of the board ? 
 
 Mr. Vaux. The secretary and clerical force in the ofhce. The 10 
 members of the board serve entirely without pay. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That was my understanding, and I wanted it in the 
 record. 
 
 Mr. Vaux. Yes, sir; the only thing is that we ought to be reim- 
 bursed for actual traveUng expenses when we are traveling on the 
 business of the board. 
 
 The Chairman. On page 273 of volume 3 there is filed a detailed 
 statement of the expenditures of the board. 
 
 Mr. Vaux. Page 272 shows expenditures up to December 31, and 
 on page 273 is the estimate of what the expenses are for the balance 
 of the fiscal year, to use up the remaining appropriation. 
 
 The Chairman. Bishop Walker, may we have the pleasure of 
 hearing from you ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. If you will pardon me, I think I would rather not 
 say anything, because I am perhaps the least working man in the 
 whole party; but later on there may be some other matters that may 
 come up which, if you will allow me, I will be glad to speak about. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Ehot, may we hear from you ? 
 
 Mr. Eliot. Mr. Chairman, I can only emphasize the words of the 
 cbairman of the board. This board is not anxious for any particular 
 consideration. We are all busy men. We are ready, however, to 
 carry out the request of the President of the United States, who has 
 appointed us to such service, and, speaking for myself, I find I am able 
 to give from six to eight weeks each year to this kind of service. It 
 is for the benefit of the administration of the Indians' affairs that we 
 should have the advice and counsel of a perfectly disinterested, impar- 
 tial, nonpartisan, and nonsectarian board of this character. The 
 board simply stands on its record of work done in justifying the 
 increase of appropriation from $4,000 to $10,000. 
 
 STATEMENT OF DANIEL SMILEY, A MEMBER OF THE BOARD 
 OF INDIAN COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 Mr. Smiley. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I do not know that I 
 have anything to say supplementary to what Mr. Vaux and Mr. 
 Walker have said. I would only say practically the same that they 
 have said, that we are each of us willing to spend some portion of 
 our time for work for the benefit of the Indians, and we feel that an 
 appropriation of at least $10,000 would enable us to do some good, 
 which is very much needed to be done. The smaller amount would 
 certainly allow us to exist without performing the work which we are 
 supposed to do. I thank you, gentelmen. 
 
 Mr. Vaux. I might say, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Smiley has been 
 giving considerable attention since the early summer to an investi- 
 gation on behalf of the board into the conditions and the proper 
 method of handUng the problem that arises in connection with the 
 New York Indians, who seem to have been battered about between 
 the United States Government and the State of New York, and 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 569 
 
 formerly the State of Massachusetts and the Ogden Land Co and 
 one or two other interests, so their status is exceldingly explicated 
 and probably they are not progressing at aU in prZLTto what 
 one would expect from bands of Indil^s who are in the heart of a 
 commumty similar to that of southwestern New Yo?k State Some 
 people feel that part of that growB out of their anamolous situS 
 
 T™ 'of'.* *°A'"^ ^^'^ *'^^'^^' ^*«-' ^l^i«h no one seems to have 
 a very clear and final yiew as to the interpretation of. The matti? 
 has never been finaUy determined by the courts AU attPTm^r<. m 
 get the question of land titles decided {y the cour^have so f arToved 
 
 Wlf TnTh; Jn''' ^%^'^^' ^ '^^^' P^^^i^^g' ^^^ ^ the Saucy 
 S i^+w ¥Ta f Representatives, which is expected to bring 
 about that fmal determmation of the legal points involved, but I 
 imagme as it has not gotten through the House it is not at all probable 
 It wiU be passed at this session of Congress. 
 
 Senator Page. Have you any legislation to suggest to us at this 
 time s 
 
 Mr. Vatjx. With regard to the New York Indians ? 
 
 Senator Page. les. 
 • ^^j^^F\ ^9/ sir; we are trying to secure all the data possible 
 in order to be able to suggest something in the future, but until we 
 know more about the subject than we know now it would be futile 
 for us to suggest anythine:. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Would not Mr. Smiley be wilhng to tell us 
 briefly what he has discovered in connection with these New York 
 Indians ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, allow me to suggest, with a view 
 to harmony in the committee, that it seems to me at this point 
 the gentlemen of the commission have felt that the sole subject 
 for consideration at this particular moment was the appropriation. 
 I think the committee would be glad to have each member of the 
 Commission, as he appears before the committee, not only discuss 
 that phase of the question, but give us the conclusions that his expe- 
 rience suggests he might well present here. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Well, Mr. Chairman, I am asking a question 
 that is entirely pertinent to that inquiry. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes ; that is the point, only they do not seem to 
 understand that. 
 
 Mr. Smiley. Mr. Chairman, the situation of the New York Indians 
 seems to be very complicated. In certain matters the National 
 Government has jurisdiction. In other matters the State of New 
 York, particularly the Department of Education, seems to exercise 
 controL In certain minor police matters the State of New York 
 exercises control. 
 
 Senator Page. And may I ask, do you think the State of New York 
 is, so far as educational matters are concerned, doing its full duty 
 to the Indians ? 
 
 Mr. Smiley. So far as it is able, but it is somewhat hampered by 
 not having control. It seems to us as though between the two 
 authorities the Indians will suffer, and if we could have it once deter- 
 mined under whose jurisdiction those Indians are it would very 
 materially help in improving their condition. 
 Senator Page. Are they citizens of the State of New York ? 
 
570 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Smiley. They are not, except a comparatively small number 
 of them. 
 
 Senator Robinson, How many Indians are there in New York ? 
 
 General Pratt. Five thousand. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Where are they principally located? Axe 
 they located in a community or scattered pretty well through the 
 State ? 
 
 Mr. Smiley. They are located in a separate community. There 
 is a small band of Rhode Island Chilcot Indians, and another band 
 at Onondaga, and Syracuse, and a few near Buffalo, and the St. 
 Regis Indians in the northwest in comparatively small numbers on 
 reservations in different parts. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is there any destitution among them ? 
 
 Mr. Smiley. There are some who have funds, if they can only be 
 suitably divided among the tribe. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Who has control of their funds? 
 
 Mr. Smiley. There is an agent of the Indian Bureau who has 
 charge of the distribution of funds, which are supplied by the National 
 Government. They, however, have lands which are producing, 
 from leases and in other ways, quite considerable amounts, which 
 enable them, if the property was distributed, to control 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are the lands held as tribal property ? 
 
 Mr. Smiley. They are held as tribal property; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the jurisdiction, briefly stated, if 
 you are familiar with it, of the State over those Indians, and what is 
 the jurisdiction of the bureau ? 
 
 Mr. Smiley. I presume that is largely a matter of custom. The 
 State has rather assumed from necessity the control in some police 
 matters and in the matter of education. Otherwise they would not 
 be educated at all. They are not able to carry on the education 
 of the Indians to the extent that it should be necessary as they do not 
 have entire control — that is, at least so far as we have been able to 
 look into it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are they educated in public schools, or does 
 the State maintain a number of schools for them ? 
 
 Mr. Smiley. Both ways. 
 
 Mr. Vaxtx. If I might intrerupt you, there are some schools that 
 are supported by the missionaries. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You mean sectarian schools ? 
 
 Mr. Vaxjx. We Quakers have a school near Salamanca. It is sec- 
 tarian to the extent that we pay the expenses of it, but there are no 
 Quaker Indians to go to it. I do not loxow whether you would call 
 that a sectarian school or not. 
 
 Senator Robinson. It is maintained with sectarian funds — the 
 church funds, is it ? 
 
 Mr. Vaux. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I use that term in contradistinction to public 
 funds. 
 
 Mr. Vaux. Yes sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Now are there public schools maintained among 
 them by taxation, or how are the public schools maintained ? 
 
 Mr. Smiley. To a certain extent the funds in the State of New York 
 are used to maintain the schools among them. Not all of them attend 
 school by any means. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 571 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is true not only of Indians but whitP 
 children. The white, children do not attend school S any locSy 
 ^}fj,^^ ^""'i'^J t^^t I/m familiar xvith, not even the g?e\t ma S 
 !lft ?r; • ^.""v.* '^^^.* ^ ''■? *'y^^§ *o '^«^«^tai^ i« what you Sd 
 c":SS=?^iI"the^-i;SSr '' ^^^ ^-^ '''^■"''' *^ ^'^^ ^*^ S.at is^he 
 
 Mr. Smiley. It is not laiown under whose jurisdiction they fall 
 
 Tst^: ai^yTLp^-SbiSv'^^^ '''' *^ ''-' ^^^^^^^ -^- ^^ -"-g *« 
 
 autrJJesl!ndfaS- ''"" *^^ "^^'^^^^ ^^^^''^^^^^^ ^« ^^^^-^ ^* 
 Mr Smiley. The Federal Government distributes through its 
 
 agents some small funds which are owing to the Indians every year— 
 
 I think a few thousand dollars. 
 
 Senator Thompsox. How many reservations have you in New 
 
 1 ork ? ■' 
 
 _ :Mr. Smiley. There are about seven that we regard as reserva- 
 tions—Indians hvmg m various parts of the State. 
 
 Senator Thompson. You sav there is some 5,000 there? 
 
 Mr. Smiley. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Thompson. That is news to me. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Now, iir. Chairman, I did not get in in time 
 to hear the chairman of the commission make these statements, but 
 what I am interested in, as these commissioners are to appear before 
 the committee, is in knowing from them what they have done. I 
 have read their report, but possibly not ah of us have done that. I 
 would Uke to ask Dr. Eliot what he has done as a commissioner dur- 
 ing last year since he appeared here before in his work as commis- 
 sioner on behalf of the Indians ? 
 
 _Dr. Eliot. First, I conducted considerable correspondence with 
 friends of the Indians, with representatives of the office, with mem- 
 bers of the board upon Indian Affairs in general, and the policies to. 
 be pursued or which were to be advocated. Secondly, I have made, 
 under instructions of the board, a specific investigation into the con- 
 dition and prospects of the Indians on the northwest coast and also 
 into the condition of the Salem Indians School and, as I stated here 
 y^esterday, a brief investigation as to the conditions of the Indians 
 m northern California. That was a study covering some six or seven 
 weeks of time in which I had the most cordial cooperation of the rep- 
 resentatives of the office through the courtesy of the commissioner, 
 and the assistant commissioner, and the assistance of Members of 
 Congress m that part of the country. Mr. Johnson, the Member of 
 the House for southwestern Washington, was my traveling compan- 
 ion — they and a number of people interested in the work of those 
 clam-eating and fish-eating Indians on the northwest coast. That 
 investigation has been embodied in a report of some 35 pages which 
 is now in the hands of the Secretary of the Interior. That, I thmk 
 covers the extent of my business. 
 The Chairman. The report is in the hands of the Secretary of the 
 
 Interior, you say ? i • • t -n i 
 
 Dr. Eliot. It is, and it is also in my pocket at this time. I wiU not 
 
 inflict a report of 35 pages upon this committee. I can, however, 
 
 answer any questions that may be asked me m regard to the matter 
 
572 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 
 
 The Chairman. If you will permit me, yesterday the California 
 delegation, or rather one of the Senators from that State and five or 
 six of the Representatives, did this committee the honor to appear 
 before it. They urged that the appropriation which the Senate com- 
 mittee has made of $10,000 for homeless and landless Indians in Cali- 
 fornia be increased from $10,000 to $30,000, and a very strong show- 
 ing was made to the effect that some of those Indians were without 
 land or homes. Are you the commissioner who made the investiga- 
 tion as to that part of California? 
 
 Dr. Eliot. I was able yesterday to indorse that application and 
 recoromendation from personal observation of the field within the last 
 month. 
 
 Senator Townsend. It may appear to be a rather peculiar ques- 
 tion to have you pass upon your own work, but I would like to ask 
 you for your judgment — because I asked having great confidence in 
 your judgment and the sacrifices you are making for this cause — ■ 
 I want to ask you if anything you have done, or that you know any 
 other commissioner has done, during the year, which has been of 
 benefit to the Indians, would not have been done by the department 
 or could not have been done by the department if your board had 
 not been in existence ? 
 
 Dr. Eliot. Nothing during this year because this report has prob- 
 ably not yet reached the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. I have, 
 however, had opportunity to go over some points with the commis- 
 sioner, and a few of them with the assistant commissioner, and have 
 been courteously assured that this information is valuable; and have 
 also been assured by I\[r. Meritt that some of the things I have recom- 
 mended will be done. I found myself in cordial accord with the 
 office in many respects. But the fuU report has not as yet been 
 under the eye of Mr. ?*Ieritt or the Indian Service. It is in the hands 
 of the Secretary. 
 
 Ml'. Meritt. Mr. Commissioner, I wiU state that the repoit has 
 been transmitted to the Indian Office and it is now in our possession. 
 I have the report here. I have read your report with much interest. 
 
 Dr. Eliot. That is very dehghtful promptness. The report only 
 went to the Secretary yesterday. It must have been immediately 
 transmitted. 
 
 The Chairman. Pardon me, I would hke to ask a question because 
 it concerns the State of Arizona, the State that you and Commissioner 
 Ketcham did us the honor to visit last year. You say in your report, 
 under date of February 2, 1914, as follows: 
 
 There is constant pressure in Arizona, and upon the Arizona delegation in Congress, 
 for the reduction of the present size of the Navaho Reservation, in order that there 
 may be more territory for the use of the white man's cattle and for ultimate settlement. 
 It is pointed out that the reservation covers an undue proportion of the State, and that 
 it has been extended by successive executive orders without due regard to the inter- 
 ests of the stockmen who have used and need the range for their stock. It is further 
 pointed out that in making these extensions the natural boundaries have been disre- 
 garded and arbitrary and artificial lines drawn. "\\'hile we believe that the reserva- 
 tion is none too large for the use of the Indians, who now number over 30,000, we think 
 it desirable that the causes of friction and controversy between the Indians and 
 the whites should be eliminated as far as possible. A suggested compromise has 
 found favor with the representative cattlemen with whom we conferred in Arizona 
 and with the Arizona delegation in Congress. We suggest and advocate that, after 
 due provision has been made for the retention of adequate tracts of land for the school 
 at Leupp and the mission at.Tolchaco, and after all the Indians living in what is known 
 as the Leupp extension, on the southern side of the Little Colorado River, have been 
 given ample allotments, with water rights on the river, then that portion of the Leupp 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 573 
 
 extension lying south of the river be returned to the public domain and opened for 
 settlement. The Little Colorado will then be the natural and visible boundary 
 between the Indian country and the white man's country. We venture to believe 
 that this action will remove the causes of ill will and satisfy the white citizens of 
 Arizona without any undue sacrifice of the interests of the Indians. 
 
 I want to say that I heartily concur in the view that the river is 
 the natural boundary line, and the ancient boundary line that the 
 Indians have respected ever since the advent of the white man, and T 
 hope the department wiU take action, acting as precipitately as is for 
 the public good, to restore that land so that the river shall be as it 
 was for 50 years, the boimdary line. The Indians will respect a line 
 like a river or a canyon. But as regards an imaginary line, not even 
 a white man knows what it is. Sol am very much gratified to find 
 that you have gone into that subject. 
 
 Dr. Eliot. I am glad that we are in accord on that proposition. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Have there been any vested rights that have 
 been established m the meanwhile within the line that would be 
 affected by a change of boimdary line now ? 
 
 The Chairman. Do you mean as far as the Indians are concerned ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. Yes. 
 
 The Chairman. Some 70 allotments have been made, but the allot- 
 ments that have been made to the Indians, in my judgment, are of 
 absolutely no value. I have been over them all. The Indians wiU 
 not stay there. You could not compel the Indians to remain there. 
 
 Dr. Eliot. They are both on the river, on the south bank. 
 
 The Chairman: The report says: "Taking care so that the rights 
 that have accrued on the south" side of the river shall not be dis- 
 turbed." To fix the river as the boundary fine would remove any 
 serious cause, or complaint, or friction, or bad feeling between the 
 whites and the Indians. 
 
 Senator Townsend. The point I had in mind is with respect to one 
 of the troubles that the commission and the committee have had in 
 dealing with the Indians, and that is the shifting of allotments because 
 of change of boundaries. An Indian who supposes he is located m 
 one place may find himseK in another place at a later date. I do not 
 know whether any such thing as that would be foimd in this matter 
 or not, but it ought to be considered very carefully. 
 
 The Chairman. Senator, if you will pardon me, this report— i did 
 not read all of it— recommends that the Indians who wish allotment 
 on the south side of the river, or who have made allotment there, or 
 who make any claim to aUotment there, be allotted on the south side 
 of the river, and the remaining portion be restored as it was, so tuat 
 the river will be the natural boundary line. ^^^^;„^ 
 
 Senator Kobinson. What distance does that contemplate removmg 
 
 ^'Xmen whTlr^fSiar with the Indians there say that the 
 In^nrdo not care, except probably for the purpose of hunting 
 
 Teni* RoBiNslN.'mat was the original boundary Hue of the 
 
 'ThrcSiRMAN. The memory of man runneth not to the contrary 
 when the river was not the boundary line. 
 Senator Robinson. How is the area of the reservation fixed, by 
 
 law or custom ? 
 
574 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. It is fixed by treaty ia 1868 with the Navajos, 
 and subsequently by various extensions. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How are the extensions made; how is it that 
 the hne is changed ? 
 
 The Chairman. By Executive order. 
 
 Senator Fall. By Executive order from time to time the Arizona 
 and New Mexico lands have been withdrawn from public entry 
 and thrown into the Indian reservation. These allotments have 
 been made on these temporary reservations. The Indians were 
 allotted land there in some instances ; later, by Executive order, the 
 reservations were withdrawn, leaving the Indians on the public lands. 
 That has been the custom from time immemorial. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. EDWARD E. AYER, A MEMBER OF THE 
 BOARD OF INDIAF COMMISSIOITERS. 
 
 Mr. Ayer. Mr. Chairman, I listened yesterday to what Mr. Meritt 
 said in regard to advancing funds from the general funds owned by 
 the Indians on different reservations, for the purpose of farming, etc. 
 In my investigation on the Menominee Indian Reservation I found 
 just the condition that Commissioner Meritt, or the Government, tries 
 to cover in that bill. There are about $2,000,000 in the Treasury. 
 There are their reservations and their property and their mills, 
 and aU that sort of thing, but there is no possibility of a man who 
 wants to go to farming, or of an old man who wants to get any portion 
 of that $2,000,000, getting any help in any way possible out of that 
 fund. 
 
 In one of the recommendations that I made I suggested that 
 certain moneys should be taken out of that fund and charged to the 
 individual and expended, under such rules as the Secretary of the 
 Interior might suggest, of course, in helping those men go to farming. 
 There certainly ought to be some way of accomphshing that for the 
 1,700 Indians on that reservation — which applies to all Indian 
 reservations in America, when there is any such fund as they have — - 
 by which they should not suffer for the necessities or the comforts of 
 life, having $1,000 or more interest in this, and that he can never 
 avail hinseli of. That bill seems to cover the situation very clearly — 
 the idea of allowing these people to have farms 
 
 Senator Page. Would you have the farms made on* that land that 
 is being cut off now to supply that mOl? 
 
 Mr. Ater. Yes; there is a good deal of land there that is fine farm- 
 ing land and fruit land, and all that — enough to have every Indian 
 there given a farm outside of the stanchng timber. That was one of 
 my recommendations, and I indorse that bill very heartily. In con- 
 nection with Senator Townsend's question directed to Dr. Eliot, as 
 to whether everything that the Indian Commission has done this year 
 would not have been done just as well without them, I will say prob- 
 ably yes. But if he will notice, especially in every change of adminis- 
 tration, there are one dozen men, or 50 men in the Indian Service who 
 are put out. The whole country is swarming with men who have 
 been in the service and many of them have been found wanting. I 
 do not think any man probably has been removed without cause, and 
 that is what this commission, in my judgment, was intended for. The 
 10 gentlemen who are able and willing to give their time to investi- 
 
Missing Page 
 
576 INDIAN APPBOPKIATTON BILL. 
 
 treasurer. Both of those two reservations to which I have referred 
 are within my diocese. They have in each of them 8 councilmen, 
 so that when they come together there are 16 councilmen and the 
 officers. I would not want to say that there is any graft among them, 
 although they say that they have learned the white man's ways, and 
 they are guilty, some of them, of tricks in order to carry out their 
 point. But at the same time, it is to be said of them, that they are 
 rapidly developing in the right direction, and that they are not very 
 happy because they are imsettled in their minds as to what is going 
 to be done for them in the future, whether they will be compelled to 
 take their lands in severalty, or whether they will be allowed to go 
 on as they are, as a tribe or nation. That disturbs them from time 
 to time. 
 
 I want to say another thing, and that is that some years ago — 
 perhaps five or six years ago, there was a distribution of money that 
 belonged to them that had been lying in the Treasury of the United 
 States, amounting, I think, to between $2,000,000 and $3,000,000. 
 It was what was called the Kansas land fund. When distributed I 
 began to inquire what was done with the money by those people and 
 I found they were using it for improvements to their farms. They 
 were using it for procuring farm utensils; the women were buyiag 
 sewing machines, and on the whole the money was used in a very 
 proper way. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How are those schools conducted; how are they 
 maintained ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. By the State. 
 
 Senator Page. Are they eventually going to merge with the 
 whites and be intermarried ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. There are some that intermarry. The white men 
 drift in there and find a pretty squaw that they would like to marry 
 and proceed to marry her. Tliere is a great deal of that. Of course 
 there are many of them who are half-bloods, and some perhaps less — 
 quarter-bloods. 
 
 Senator Robinson. May I ask if you have visited their homes? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Yes, sir; I have taken dinner in their homes 
 sometimes when I went on my visitations, and held service. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are you familiar with the general sanitary 
 conditions that prevail? 
 
 Bishop Walker. I am not as familiar with that as I would like to 
 be. I have not the time to go very much into that detail, but they 
 claim they have been misrepresented by the white man who managed 
 to settle himself down there upon them, and that they have better 
 conditions to health and sanitary conditions in their homes than was 
 represented by this 'man who came into some of the cities, procured 
 money for the purpose, as he says, of helping them, but the Indians 
 deny that he has helped them, and by a decree of the court in Buffalo 
 he has been excluded from the reservation. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Who was that man ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. His name is Hartman. I am not spealdng against 
 him. I do not want to decide this question. It is simply a matter of 
 fact. 
 
 Senator Thompson. He is a white man, is he? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Yes, sir; his name is Caleb W. Hartman. I do 
 not pretend to determine the right or the wrong of this matter; I am 
 simply stating the facts. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 577 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is tuberculosis and trachoma very prevalent 
 among those Indians ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. It was claimed that it was by him, but the Indians 
 denied it. Of course, wherever the Indians are you will find tuber- 
 culosis, I think. 
 
 vSenator EoBiNSON. But what do you say about it? You are 
 familiar with their condition. 
 
 Bishop Walker. I am not so famihar as to say very much on that 
 subject. I would hestitate to say something- that I did not fully know. 
 
 Senator Robinsox. Have they any hospital faciUties? 
 
 Bishop Walker. No, sir; they have none, but Buffalo is near in 
 this case, and Salamanca has its hospital, so they can be cared for. 
 
 Senator Robinson. They are sensitive upon the subject of their 
 sanitary and health conditions, I suppose ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Very. They feel that they are trying to do what 
 they ought to do to make their homes comfortable and to make their 
 people healthy people. That is the tone, as I find it, among them. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Di<l you visit the schools? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Yes, sir. They are on a small scale; of course, 
 they have to be. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How many schools have }''ou visited? 
 
 Bishop Wat,ker. I think three only. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the work that is done in the schools; 
 how does it compare with the white schools in the same locality? 
 
 Bishop Walker. It is on a much smaller scale; they do not go so 
 far, but some of them seem to reach that point where they have an 
 ambition to get in among the white people, the white schools, and 
 develop. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Some of them attend pubUc schools, do they 
 not — mixed schools ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Yes, sir; some attend the public schools in the 
 little villages surrounding them — that is, such public schools as we 
 have in those smaller villages. I do not know that I have a right to 
 say it, but I think there is a desire on the part of the white people 
 generally not to have the Indians come into their schools. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the extent of the work done in those 
 three schools that you visited; how far do they carry the pupils? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Well, I think in the ordinary three h9urs, or a 
 little beyond, they have reading, writing, and arithmetic, and a 
 little beyond. They do not aim to make great scholars of them; 
 
 they can not. . . j. „ ^i i. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are you m position to ]udge of the thorough- 
 ness of the work that is done in those schools; have you made any 
 
 study as to that ? i , , . j ^t, j. 
 
 Bishop Walker. No, sir; I have not undertaken to do that. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What percentage of the school population 
 avail themselves of the school facihties where they are to be had? 
 
 Bishop Walker. I am sorry to say that I could not give the fig- 
 ures on that subject either. i j v 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you know what the general feeling among 
 those Indians is with reference to educational facihties, whether they 
 appreciate them or reg^ard them as unnecessary i y .,■ i j „ ^ 
 
 ^Eop Walker. I think they do appreciate them-I think I can 
 say that truly-except the older Indians, those who are called the 
 
 82833 — ^TOL 1 — 15 37 
 
578 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 pagans. There is a portion of one of the reservations where they are 
 clearly people of the old school and do not care for any advancement, 
 or any progress, but stiU they can not hinder it. They are pushing 
 on, the yoimger men, and the younger women, and they want to go 
 forward. They are coming in contact with— of course, being so 
 near — what we may call it civilization. They are coming in contact 
 with people who have the advantages that they have not, and they 
 want to go on. 
 
 Senator Robii^son. What occupation do those Indians pursue ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Different occupations. For instance, there are 
 a great many women who are servants — I mean, servants in the 
 adjoining villages and towns and in Buffalo. Then there are men 
 who are engaged in their farming operations. Then we have a good 
 many who are in the employ of the railroads, and others who are 
 raising cattle, and still others who are acting as laborers in the towns, 
 and some sowing sassafras in Buffalo. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are they fairly successful in those different 
 occupations; do you regard them as such? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Yes, sir; I regard them as quite successful, and 
 I know that where they are in employment they do their work well. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You regard, I assume, the diversification of 
 industries as an indication of advancement ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Exactly. 
 
 Senator Robinson. And the fact that they are able successfully 
 to engage in a number of different occupations is an indication of 
 general progress ? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Yes, sir; and progress even of the brains of many 
 people. 
 
 Senator Robinson. There never was any question about the 
 Indians' brain. I do not think anybody ever questioned the Indians' 
 natural intellect as a tribe or race — I have never heard it done, at 
 least. 
 
 Senator Page. But his natural inclination to work is not up to the 
 mark. 
 
 Bishop Walker. No; they do not care for that — I am speaking 
 now of the old-fashioned Indians. The modern young man or young 
 women are determined to advance themselves, and are doing it. 
 
 Senator Page. Are there any obstacles thrown in the way of the 
 attendance of these Indian children upon the white schools? 
 
 Bishop Walker. Well, you know they do not undertake officially 
 to interfere with it, but the white boy does not like the Indian boy 
 sitting by his side. They look down upon them. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is there much intoxication among the New 
 York Indians — that is, much drinking?. 
 
 Bishop Walker. Well, there is more than there ought to be. I 
 am sorry to say there are people, those who want to do it get at liquor. 
 There have been efforts made to check that and many have been 
 arrested for selling fiquor to them in the past and probably within 
 recent days. But they take to it naturally. It seems to be a human 
 characteristic. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Not limited to any particular race, either, is it ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do I understand that you do not quite agree 
 with Commissioner Smiley with reference to the deplorable condition 
 of the Indians there, or is this a special case — these Seneca Indians 
 that you are referring to ? 
 
INDIAK APPEOPEIATION BILL. 579 
 
 Bishop Walker. I am speaking particularly of that reservation, 
 or the two reservations, namely Allegheny and Cattaraugus, which are 
 more particularhr within my view. There are some who are in a poor 
 condition, but I do not think so much so as has been represented 
 beiore the public m BuflEalo and other places. There was a commis- 
 sion appointed some years ago by the then governor of the State to 
 mqmre into this question of the relation of the General Government 
 and the State government to each other, but it was all a mystery, 
 and IS a mystery to-day, and all that has been attempted to be brought 
 about has been done in a very different way. 
 
 Mr. Vaux. If I may be permitted to say it, a number of the ques- 
 tions that Senator Robinson has asked Bishop Walker I think will be 
 answered by the report which the committee of which Mr. Smiley 
 is the chairman is in a position to prepare after the investigations 
 that are being carried on now are completed. 
 
 The Chairman. Are there any other gentlemen who desire to be 
 heard ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Before we leave the New York item, may I say just 
 a word ? 
 
 The Chairman. Certainly. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The Indian Office has recently sent one of its brightest 
 men to the State of New York and he has made a very careful inves- 
 tigation of the New York situation, and report has been made to the 
 office, and I think that report would be helpful to the Members of 
 Congress and also to the members of the Board of Indian Commis- 
 sioners. In that report we have referred to all the treaties and laws, 
 and have set out the. difficult conditions existing there, and if it is 
 agreeable to the committee I would be glad to have that report 
 incorporated into this record. 
 
 The Chairman. If there is no objection, that wiU be done. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The report referred to is as follows: 
 
 Department ov the Interior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 Washington, D. C, December 26, 1914. 
 The Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 Sir: Assistant Commissioner Meritt being firmly impressed with the necessity of 
 taking some definite action looking to an effective solution of the New York Indian prob- 
 lem, instructed me orally in the early fall of 1913 " to get to the bottom of it, " if possible. 
 Later you authorized me in writing to visit the several reservations in that State so 
 as to present existing conditions there. The question has proven of great interest 
 and increasing importance as the investigation progressed. Mr. Meritt's conviction 
 "that something should be done" is undoubtedly correct, as the facts hereinafter 
 presented wUl show. Present conditions on these reservations are so directly trace- 
 able to the time when this country was first occupied by the Europeans that a brief 
 recourse to colonial history is essentail. 
 
 Early colonists in what is now western New York found the country more or less 
 densely populated by aborigines of various tribes, principally the Senacas, Cuyugas, 
 Onondagas. Oneidas, and Mohawks. These five tribes or nations were united in a 
 common league, known among themselves as "Ho-de-no-sau-nee, but generally 
 designated by the whites as "Iroquois," and were much feared during the early days. 
 In the Iroquois council the Onandagas, as the founders of the league, kept the central 
 fire- the Mohawks guarded the eastern portal and the Senacas the western. The 
 Oneidas were stationed between the central fire and the east, while the Oayugas 
 occupied a similar position in the west. One can but pause to wonder if exploration 
 into ancient traditions of those people would not disclose an organization bordering 
 strongly on Free Masonry. • tvt ^i, ^ t -u • i j • 
 
 About 1710 the Tuscaroras, then livmg m North Carolina, became involved m 
 Quarrels with white settlers and adjoiaing Indian tribes there. Havmg been severely 
 defeated in battle they migrated to New York and were formally united with the 
 
580 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 five tribes just mentioned, thus making the Six Nations o^.N^w York by which name 
 these Indians are now most commonly known. At the period of ^tf S'^^ft^^^p^f^S™- 
 the latter part of the seventeenth century-the Iroquois League ^"P^^fJ^'j J^ 000 
 «ouls, and even to this day the union still continues to some extent, although its com- 
 ponent membership as to tribes has materially changed^ Tn^ioTio oi^o/l 
 ^ With the exception of the Oneidas and a part of the Tuscaroras these Indians sided 
 ^^ith the mother country in the Bevolution and. were leftunmentioned and unpro- 
 vided tor in the treaty of peace between Great Britain and the Confederated (polonies. 
 Naturally considerable unrest existed among them at the close of the Revolution 
 due to the fact that in the main they had sided with the losing party m that great 
 struggle. The Mohawks moved to Canada and settled on lands provided for them by 
 the British Government, where a remnant of this tnbe still lives. By teeaty the 
 Mohawks ceded to the State whatever title they had to any land m New York, and 
 subsequently the St. Regis Indians were formally adopted by the Six Nations m place 
 of the Mohawks. , , ., • j. ■. .t , 
 The Cayugas also sold their land to the State and gradually migrated westward, 
 locating first in the Ohio Valley, but finally removing to the Indian Territory and 
 becoming affihated with other tribes there. A few Cayugas still remain m New 
 York, residing principally -nith the Senecas and Tonawandas; the latter, an ottspnng 
 of the Seneca tribe, being frequently designated "The Tonawanda Band of Seneca 
 Indians." The State paid the Cayugas at the rate of 4 shilUngs per acre and there- 
 after sold the land for 16 shilUngs per acre. About 1853 representatives of the tnbe 
 began to petition the State for the difference in price between the one paid to them 
 -and that received by the State. Finally, in 1909, the legislative assembly authorized 
 the land commissioner to adjust and settle the claim of the Cayuga Indians against the 
 State for a sum not exceeding $297,131.20 with an additional allowance of 127,131.20 
 
 The Oneidas also, by various treaties, sold all of their land except about 350 acres 
 to the State and removed to the reservation in Wisconsin procured from the Menomi- 
 nees by treaty with the Federal Government. The 350 acres in New York belonging 
 to the Oneidas have long since been divided in severalty under State laws, and as a 
 tribe these Indians are known no more in that State. Six tribes still remain in New 
 York to be regarded as of any importance at this time, viz, the Senecas, Tonawandas, 
 Tuscaroras, Onondagas, St. Regis; and Shinnecocs, the latter, however, never having 
 formed a unit in the Six Nations, although at one time they did pay tribute to the 
 Mohawks. A brief statement as to the status of the lands in each reservation is here 
 presented in order that a clearer understanding of the matter may be reached. 
 
 The Allegany Reservation, claimed by the Senecas, contains 30,469 acres, and is 
 located on both sides of the Allegheny River in Cattaraugus County, N . Y. It is about 
 40 miles long and averages from 1 to 3 miles in width. It is a part of the area specif- 
 ically reserved to the Seneca Indians in the treaty with Robert Morris at "Big Tree," 
 September 17, 1797. This entire reservation is subject to the "preemption right" 
 or "claim" of the Ogden Land Co., to which reference is hereinafter more fully made. 
 
 The Cattaraugus Reservation contains 21,680 acres, located principally in Erie 
 "County, a small part lying in each of the counties of Cattaraugus and Chautauqua. 
 This reservation was conveyed to the Seneca Indians by Wilhelm Willnick et al., 
 predecessors -of the Ogden Land Co., by agreement dated June 30, 1802 (7 Stats., 70), 
 in return for which the Seneca Indians surrendered to the company certain other lands 
 which had been reserved to them by the treaty at Big Tree. This reservation is also 
 subject to the preemption right of the Ogden Land Co., such right being specifically 
 retained in the agreement referred to. 
 
 The Old Spring Reservation, located partly, in Allegany and partly in Cattaraugus 
 Counties, contains only 640 acres. Its name is derived from a muddy pool about 20 
 feet in diameter located near the center of the tract, from which the Indians formerly 
 gathered a sort of crude petroleum locally known as "Seneca oil," and which was 
 used quite extensively by them in early days for medicinal purposes. The Senecas 
 fully understood that this tract was reserved to them in the sale to Robert Morris at 
 Big Tree, but this fact does not appear from an examination- of the treaty itself. At 
 any rate, this reserve was included in a sale by Robert Morris to the Holland Land 
 Co., so called, and several mesne conveyances transpired until by deed dated Febru- 
 ary 28, 1855, one Philoneus Pattison became the ostensible owner of a part thereof. 
 On taking possession, the Seneca Indians promptly began an action m ejectment 
 against Pattison. A verdict in favor of the Indians was rendered by the lower court; 
 the case was appealed to the supreme court of the State and finally to the court of 
 Appeals, both of which afiinned the decision of the trial court, and the Indians have 
 since remained in undisturbed possession. A written opinion of the case does not 
 appear to have been handed down, but the pleadings, transcript of evidence, judg- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 581 
 
 ment, and decree of the court are still on file in Little Valley, the county seat of Cat- 
 taraugus County. 
 
 The Onondaga Reservation contains 6,100 acres and ia located in Onondaga County- 
 about 5 nules south of the city of Syracuse. Prior to 1793 this reservation embraced 
 something over 65,000 acres. March 11 of that year, however, the Indians sold over 
 three-fourths of their reservation to the State and by subsequent treaties, in 1795, 
 1817, and 1822, the reservation was reduced to its present area. Under State laws these 
 Indians are authorized to lease land owned or possessed by individuals and small 
 areas within the reservation are so leased. The lands within this reservation are not 
 covered by the claim of the Ogden Land Co. 
 
 The Tonawanda Reservation now comprises but 7,549 acres lying partly in Erie, 
 Genesee and Niagara Counties. Originally it comprised upward of 45,000 acres, 
 being a part of the lands reserved to the Seneca Indians in the sale to Robert Morris^ 
 at Big Tree. This reservation was conveyed to Thomas Ludlow Ogden and Joseph 
 Fellows by agreement with the Six Nations dated January 15, 1838 (7 Stats., 550), and 
 the subsequent treaty with the Senecas of May 20, 1842 (7 Stats., 586). The lands 
 tembraced within the present reserve were repurchased from Ogden and Fellows for 
 Ihe sum of $100,000, in accordance with article 3 of the treaty with the Tonawanda 
 ofndians dated November 5, 1857 (11 Stats., 735). Title was first taken in the Secretary 
 til the Interior, who held the lands until February 14, 1862, on which date, by deed, 
 
 ey were conveyed to the comptroller of the State of New York "in trust and in fee- 
 i°r the Tonawanda Indians." This settlement effectually extinguished whatever 
 Preemption right the Ogden Land Co. ever had in and to the lands within this reser- 
 vation. 
 
 The Tuscarora Reservation lies in Niagara County, about 9 miles northeast of Niagara 
 Falls, and contains 6,249 acres. The Tuscarora Indians having been adopted by the 
 Iroquois League as one of the Six Nations, by deed dated March 30, 1808, the Seneca 
 Nation granted 1 square mile (640 acres) to the Tuscarora Indians. (Liber 1, folio 
 56, Land Records of Niagara County.) It is reported that subsequently the Holland 
 Land Co., assignee of Robert Morris, "ratified" this grant, and gave to the Tuscaroraa 
 1,280 acres more, but no record of any paper title to this effect can be found. At any 
 rate, the Tuscaroras occupy and claim these lands as a part of their present reserve, 
 which are subject to the preemption right of the Ogden Land Co. (7 Stats., 560), 
 although the Indians deny this, basing their claim on a decree of the State court in 
 Buffalo, handed down in 1850. This suit resulted from an agi-eement with the Federal 
 Government, January 15, 1838, under which the Six Nations were to remove west of 
 the Mississippi River, and in anticipation of their removal the chiefs of the Tuscarora 
 Tribe executed a deed to Thomas Ludlow Ogden and Joseph Fellows, predecessors of 
 the Ogden Land Co., conveying to said Ogden and Fellows as owners of the preemptive 
 right, the 1,920 acres last referred to. The deed was placed in the hands of Herman 
 B. Potter, in escrow, pending the performance of certain conditions precedent to 
 delivery. The expected removal failed to materialize, and in 1849 William B. Chew 
 et al., chiefs of the tribe, instituted suit against Herman B. Potter and Joseph Fellows 
 (Thomas L. Ogden then being deceased) looking to a surrender and cancellation of the 
 deed. A verdict in favor of the Indians was rendered and the deed canceled by 
 decree of the court, which resulted only in placing the matter in statu quo as far as the 
 preemptive right of Ogden and Fellows was concerned. The execution of the deed 
 was an admission of the existence of the preemptive right, and the contention of the 
 Indians that the decree of the court canceling the deed also effectually extinguished 
 the right of preemption in the Ogden people does not appear well founded. The 
 records in the case are still on file in the county clerk's office at Buffalo. 
 
 About the year 1800 a delegation of Tuscarora Indians visited the governor of North 
 Carolina and negotiated a sale of then- lands in that State for approximately $15,000. 
 which money was deposited with the United States in trust. In 1804 Congress author- 
 ized the Secretary of War to purchase with this money additional land for these Indians, 
 With these funds 4,329 acres lying to the south and east of the 1,920 acres aheady occu- 
 pied by them were purchased for the Tuscarora Indians. Title to these lands was 
 token by the Secretary of War in trust for the Indians, but subsequently (Jan. 2, 
 1809) the lands were conveyed directly to the Tuscarora Tribe, who own now the fee. 
 (Book A, p. 5, Niagara County clerk's office.) _ ^_. , „, „=„ . i, ■^,- ^-. 
 
 The St ResiB Reservation contains 38,890 acres, ot which 24,250 acres fall withm the 
 Dominion of Canada. The remaining 14, 640 acres on the American aide lie m Frank- 
 lin County N Y., and were secured to these Indians by treaty with the State, in con- 
 sideration for which they surrendered certain other lands claimed by them. The 
 Oeden Land Co.'s claim never comprised any part of the lands withm this reserve. 
 
 The Shinnecock Reservation, containing some 450 acres, is located on a neck of land 
 runnino- into Shinnecock Bay, Long Island. Southampton was an early colomal town 
 
582 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 established in the se^-enteenth century, and the town trustees negotiated with ' ' Shmne- 
 cock," chief of the tribe, for a sale of the lands. Tribal tradition has it that the cmet 
 sold out to the whites and skipped with the money. While this does not comport with 
 accepted ideas of tlie honesty and integrity of aboriginal chiefs, yet it is a matter ot 
 record that the town trustees of Southampton in the early days gave a lease tor a thou- 
 sand years to the Shinnecock Indians, covering some 3,600 acres known as the bhm- 
 necock Hills and Shinnecock Neck." Matters stood thus until about the middle ot 
 the nineteenth century, when the town had developed to such an extent that a more 
 satisfactory arrangement was desired. Accordingly, in 1859, the State authorized the 
 town ti-ustees to negotiate with the Indians for a cession of their leasehold estate. An 
 agreement was reached under which the Indians surrendered the hills, in exchange for 
 which they received in fee Shinnecock Neck. The agreement is recorded m volume 
 3 of the town records of Southampton. 
 
 The above covers all of the reservations in New York to be regarded as of any import- 
 ance at this time, but in passing mention may be made of the Poosepatucks, of mixed 
 Indian and negro descent, who did occupy a small reservation of about 50 acres, also 
 on Long Island, near the mouth of the Mastic River, being a part of the tract of 175 
 acres conveyed to the tribe by Col. William Smith, governor of the Territory, July 2, 
 1700 ' ' to the intent sayd Indians, their children and posterryte may not want sufficient 
 land to plant oft forever." Also the Montauk Tribe who occupied Mpntauk Point, the 
 northeastern extremity of Long Island, which was included in a patent issued in 1686 
 by Gov. Dongan to "the freeholders and inhabitants of the town of East Hampton." 
 This grant was made subject to the Indian right of occupancy, but also carried "the 
 perpetual and exclusive right to purchase same from the Indians." ^ Within com- 
 paratively recent years the remnant of this tribe sold their title to this land to one 
 Benson, and these Indians, as a tribe, no longer exist as such, having individually 
 become absorbed in the body politic. (Pharoh v. Benson, 69 Misc., N. Y., 241.) 
 These Indians also intermarried so largely in the early days with negroes that their 
 nationality as "Indians" became extinct long ago. 
 
 The Cornplanter Reservation in Pennsylvania lies just below the line between 
 ISfew York and the former State. The reservation originally comprised 1,500 acres 
 "granted in fee" by Pennsylvania, March 16, 1796, to Cornplanter and his heirs. 
 Subsequently, in 1871, the State authorized the appointment of commissioners to 
 divide these lands in severalty among " Cornplanter 's descendants and other Seneca 
 Indians." This was done and the land was divided and allotted to 93 Indians, 
 without power, however, to sell to persons other than descendants of Cornplanter, 
 or other Seneca Indians. 
 
 These small reservations, used in common, afforded only a haven of refuge to 
 possibly otherwise homeless persons, and for all practical purposes may be eliminated 
 from further consideration. The same might also be said of the Oil Spring Reserva- 
 tion, containing, as it does, but 640 acres, retained by the Indians in the early days 
 largely from sentimental reasons. 
 
 Conditions on the remaining reservations show a crying need for reform. Naturally 
 one casts about for the reasons why these conditions should have so long been per- 
 mitted to continue. First among these we find the question of jurisdiction over 
 these Indians, State and Federal. Much needless confusion exists, a pretty general 
 impression prevailing that the State has exclusive jurisdiction. This seems to have 
 arisen from two causes ; first, because New York was one of the thirteen original colonies 
 and the "title" to the lands involved never was in the Federal Government, and 
 secondly, because the State has exercised jurisdiction, while the Federal Govern- 
 ment, to a large extent, has not. A brief examination of the fundamental principles 
 involved should remove any doubt on this point. 
 
 A common cause united the colonists in a supreme effort for independence, and the 
 successful termination of the Revolution, together with the attendant treaty of peace, 
 vested full powers of jurisdiction, sovereinty, and government in the thirteen original 
 Colonies. Dissention immediately arose to such an extent that thirteen independent 
 nations seemed imminent rather than one. The interlacing web represented by the 
 Articles of Confederation was not sufficiently strong to weave the dissenting Colonies 
 into a satisfactory whole. The independent Colomes had too much power and the 
 central government too little. This is a matter of history, well established. By the 
 adoption of the Federal Constitution the Colonies ceded to the General Government 
 certain well defined powers, functions, and duties, among which we find the regula- 
 tion of commerce with foreign nations, among the several States, and with the Indian 
 tribes. (Constitution, Art. I, sec. 8.) 
 
 After the adoption of the Federal Constitution in 1787 several of the Colonies ceded 
 to the Federal Government certain parts of the territory covered by their respective 
 charters from the British Crown. This territory formed the first land, the actual title 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 583 
 
 to 'whicli was recognized as being in the Federal Government. This area was greatly 
 Lacreased from time to time, as by the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, the Floridas in 
 1819, the Gadsden purchase in 1853, the Alaskan purchase in 1867, and others. This 
 vast territory comprises what has since been known as "the public land States," the ' 
 title to which was recognized as being in the United States. 
 
 New York, not having ceded to the Federal Government the lands within her pres- 
 ent borders, the actual title is not in the Federal Government, and as to land not other- 
 wise disposed of by the State the title still remains there. Were it not for the fact that 
 we are here dealing with "an Indian problem" the Federal Government would have 
 practically nothing to do with the so-called "reservations" in that State. 
 
 Having joined with her sister States, however, in the adoption of the Constitution, 
 New York is bound to recognize the powers formally ceded to the Nation. One of 
 these is the regulation of commerce with Indian tribes, which surely is broad enough 
 to cover traffic in lands occupied or claimed by them. Again, the admission of power 
 in Indian tribes to liarter, without the consent of the Federal Government, such title 
 as they may have to any lands within the geographical limits of the United States, 
 is repugnant to the fundamental principles of sovereignty so essential to the preserva- 
 tion of a Nation. This is true even though the actual title is not in the Federal Gov- 
 ernment. (Johnson v. Mcintosh, 8 Wheat., 543; Wooster v. Georgia, 6 Pet., 515; 
 Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, 5 Pet., 1.") Congress, at an early date fully recognized 
 the necessity for this. (Act Mar. 30, 1802, 2 Stats., 143, sec. 12.) Could we afford 
 to admit the right of an Indian tribe to sell their land within our borders to a foreign 
 country? 
 
 By acts of Congress and judicial construction the power of tlie Federal Government 
 over questions dealing with Indians has grown infinitely stronger. Apparently this 
 has been a product of necessity, rather than any express delegation of authority to he 
 found in the Federal Constitution. From time to time New York has enacted sundry ^ 
 laws pertaining to the Indians within her borders, has provided schools for their 
 youth, appointed attorneys to protect their interests, and has delegated jurisdiction 
 m some instances to her com-ts to entertain their complaints. No case has been 
 found denying the right of the State so to do, or that the laws so enacted are uncon- 
 stitutional'. On the other hand numerous cases could be cited, if necessary, uphold- 
 ing the vaHditj of such laws, where they do not conflict with the Federal Coiistitu- 
 tion, treaties with Indian tribes or congressional enactments. (New York v. Dibble, 
 21 How., 366.) In brief, the principle involved may be broadly stated, that all 
 State laws beneficial to Indians will be upheld, while those of a detrimental nature 
 will be scrutinized with greater care. . ■ , , 
 
 In internal matters of this kind, wherever the Nation remams passive, then the 
 State of necessity must become active. In truth, the, Indians in New York occupy 
 a somewhat peculiar status, in that they may be said to be wards of both the Nation 
 and the State. Jurisdiction seems concurrent rather than exclusive, and m passing 
 it may be said that the State has always been generous in dealing with these people. 
 Judging from concrete results the Federal Government has manifested but slight in- 
 terest in the affairs of these Indians. Its greatest shortcoming has been by omission 
 rather than by commission. The New York Indian problem should have been history 
 long since One hundred and twenty-seven years have passed since the adoption of 
 the Federal Constitution, and we find these people, to a large extent, in the same posi- 
 tion they occupied in the early days, at least in so far as their land tenures are con- 
 cerned. Apparently the State has waited for the Nation and the Nation for the State. 
 Has it never occurred to either to cooperate? . , , ^ ,. , ., . , 
 
 Originallv the Federal Government dealt «ith the Indian tribes as quasi or de 
 facto nations, by treaty. Later Congress deemed it incongruous to deal with these 
 people by such formal means as "treaties," which implied equality, and directed 
 that thereafter their affairs would be regulated by legislation only. (Act Mar. 3 1871 
 16 Stats 566 ) The power of Congress so to do has been fully recognized, even to 
 the extent of abrogating by legislation the provisions of a pnor treaty with an Indian 
 ribe (Uid ed StSes 1 Kagama, 118 U, s', 375; Lone Wolf v. Hitchcock, 187 U. S., 
 ^ro N 's^/"'-''" lo ^a1<^ ^^9. Stnts SSO^ Congress passed an act to regulate leases 
 fv tL sfnerinlkns in i'ew York. Se'ptemLr 3o! 1890 (26 Stats., 558), the prior 
 by the Seneca inmans in A e^ x The control of Congress over the sub ect matter 
 
 wasTost strongU^^^^^^^^^ Knorr (19 Hnn.,^540) and Shongo. Miller 
 
 was most « WY ^P ^^^^ be added to show junsdiction m the Federal Govern- 
 ment over the Indian tribes in New York? The one case of Fellows v. Blacksmith 
 meni ovei t , , ^mplv sufficient to prove this. 
 
 (19 How., 366) would be amply j^^^^^^^ ' ^^^-efui possession of their reservations 
 (7 S°tX. 4^ a^t^eTupreJ^e Court having denied the State the right to tax their 
 
584 INDIAN appeopkiahon bill. 
 
 land (The New York Indians, 5 Wall., 761), the hands of the State are eftectuallj 
 tied in so far as working out a feasible solution of the problem is concerned. We nave 
 just seen that prior treaties may be superseded by subsequent legislation, but tnis 
 power rests sokly with Congress. Certainly it does not exist in the btate. Just 
 when, in what manner, andto what extent this power is to be exercised therefore 
 rests in the sound discretion of Congress. Presumably the power will be exercised 
 only after full considerations of humanity and public policy. . , „.t ro • j 
 
 It has heretofore been shown that the actual title— the fee— in the bt. Kegis and 
 Onondaga Reservations is in the State, that of the Tonawanda Eeservation is in the 
 comptroller of the State, and as to the Shinnecock and 4,329 acres of the Tuscarora 
 Reservation it is in the respective tribes. Aside from the locus of the actual title, 
 however, we have also found that the Indians' right of possession is an indefeasible 
 one which can not be disturbed without the sanction of the Federal Government. 
 (Fellows V. Blacksmith and The New York Indians, supra.) As to the locus of the 
 fee of the Allegany, Cattaraugus, and 1,920 acres of the Tuscarora Reservations, we are 
 confronted with a more difficult problem, these lands being subject to the 'claim' 
 of the Ogden Land Co. , so called, a claim of such a peculiar nature that a short recourse 
 to colonial history is again necessary. •■,■,■ 
 
 By charters in 1628-29 James I, King of England, "granted" certain land m the 
 new continent to the Plymouth Colony. March 12, 1664, Charles II likewise granted 
 certain land to the Duke of York. Owing to the deficient geographical knowledge of 
 the then new country, the descriptions in these grants were more or less vague, and in 
 many cases overlapped. Massachusetts succeeded to the title of the Plymouth 
 Colony, and shortly after the close of the Revolution a dispute arose between that 
 State and New York over the ownership of certain territory, aggregating upward of 
 6,000,000 acres, located in the western part of the latter State. The controversy was 
 first submitted to the Continental Congress, and a court was appointed to hear and 
 determine the cause. The matter was finally adjusted, however, without resort to 
 the court, a convention for this purpose having been held at Hartford, Conn., Decem- 
 ber, 1786, New York being represented by 6 commissioners and Massachusetts by 10. 
 A compact ot agreement was drawn and duly executed December 16, 1786. By this 
 compact New York retained the right of government, sovereignty, and jurisdiction 
 over the disputed territory, but ceded to Massachusetts the right of preemption of the 
 soil from the native Indians, coupled with the power to sell or assign such right. Mas- 
 sachusetts proceeded promptly to dispose of its "title," and in April, 1788, Oliver 
 Phelps and Nathaniel Gorman negotiated with that State for the purchase of the entire 
 area for $1,000,000, payable withia three years, in public paper of the State, a kind of 
 scrip which was then greatly depreciated. Phelps and Gorman failed to comply in 
 full with their agreement, and subsequently Massachusetts brought suit to recover 
 title. A compromise agreement was effected, however, under which Phelps and 
 Gorman obtained a clear title to about 1,900,000 acres of the original area, the remainder 
 being again relinquished to the State. March 8, 1791, Massachusetts conveyed to 
 Robert Morris for $225,000 the land which Phelps and Gorman had failed to acquire. 
 Morris retained 500,000 acres of this land, which thereafter became known as "the 
 Morris Reserve," and by four separate deeds in 1792-93 conveyed the remainder, ag- 
 gregating 3,600,000 acres, to a company of Amsterdam capitalists, among whom Wu- 
 helm WQliiick was the largest owner! 
 
 These conveyances from Morris were coupled with an agreement on his part to 
 extinguish the Indian title, which he promptly endeavored to do and which finally 
 resulted in the agreement or treaty of Big Tree, September 15, 1797 (7 Stats., 601). 
 The Amsterdam capitalists subsequently became known as the Holland Land Co., 
 and in 1810 the company conveyed to David A. Ogden certain described lands, 
 embracing an area within which will be found the present Allegany, Cattaiaugus, 
 and Tuscarora Reservations. Ogden later associated other capitalists with him, and 
 the combination became known as the Ogden Land Co., title to all lands acquired 
 being taken in the name of certain members, in trust for the company, which, how- 
 ever, was not incorporated. Later a trust deed was executed under which the 
 holdings of the company were divided into 20 shares of no specified value. A dis- 
 pute having arisen among the shareholders, suit was instituted, in which a part of 
 the joint owners were plaintiffs, the remainder being defendants. December 10, 
 1883, a decree was entered in the Supreme Court of Queens County, N. Y., desig- 
 nating Charles E. Appleby, of New York, a trustee, and William D. Waddington as 
 cotrustees of the concern. Waddington died prior to 1888, leaving Charles E. Appleby 
 sole surviving trustee of the company, who served until the latter part of 1913, when 
 when he also died. Who now represents the company in an official or legal capacity 
 is not known, but in 1894 the owners of these 20 shares were reported to be: 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 585 
 
 Estate of Joshua Waddington 4 
 
 Estate of Peter S. Schermerliorn .\ . .\\[\['.'..[\'.\'.'.\ ....[.'..]][ ...] 1 
 
 Estate of Thomas Ludlow Ogden 2 
 
 Estate of Louisa Troup [.'. i 
 
 Estate of Abraham Ogden ..'. 1 
 
 Estate of Robert L . Tillotson '.!'.!!!!!!!!!!'.!'.!!!!'.! 1 
 
 Estate of Duncan P. Campbell !.".'!..".'...'.! 1 
 
 Estate of Charlotte Brinckerhoff ."..'."'. .[\\.\/.'.\\\ .'..]'. 1 
 
 Estate of James S. Wadsworth 1* 
 
 Estate of Ogden Murray ^.\\'.\\\\..\.[[.\\.'.\\'.\...\\. | 
 
 Estate of Benjamin W. Rogers \'.\\.\ .[".'.[]'.. . 2 
 
 Estate of Robert Bayard ". . . .[\\\\ .\\\ .WWW . .[ I 
 
 Charles E. Appleby ! !!!!!!:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 
 
 Estate of Shaw and Wilson now held by Bank of England !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2 
 
 20 
 The nature and extent of the claim of the Ogden Land Co. still remains to be con- 
 sidered, however. This claim has received various designations, having grown, in 
 the estimation of the company, from an original right of preemption to tnat of an 
 absolute fee. Many theories have been advanced as to its exact nature and the 
 decisions of the State courts before whom this matter has been brought is not con- 
 ducive to a clear understanding of the case. Much fruitless labor seems to have 
 been expended in an effort to determine the locus of the fee, presumably due to 
 the old common law fiction that necessarily the fee must be in someone. That 
 this is merely a fiction, however, is apparent from a moment's consideration. In 
 whom is the fee to an uninhabited and undiscovered island in the Pacific Ocean? 
 On discovery does the fee arise and hail the discoverer as a deliverer? 
 
 Ogden V. Lee (6 Hill, 546) would indicate that the fee to these lands is in the Seneca 
 Nation, subject to the preemption right ceded to Massachusetts by the State of New 
 York. Fellows v. Lee (5 Den., 628) affirmed the decision of the lower court on the 
 ground that the Indian title to land is an absolute fee and that the preemption right 
 ceded to Massachusetts was simply the right to acquire by purchase whenever the 
 Indians choose to sell. In Seneca Nation v. Chiistie (126 A. D., 322) and Seneca 
 Nation v. Appleby (126 A. D., 770) the preemption right to the Ogden Land Co. 
 seems to have matured into what has variously been styled a " fee subject to the Indian 
 right of occupancy," "qualified fee," "naked fee," "ultimate fee," etc. But little 
 satisfaction is obtained from examining these various decisions with a view of deter- 
 mining just where the fee in these lands lies. Neither does a process of elimination 
 produce a more satisfactory result. Necessarily four parties are to be considered in 
 the matter — the Indians, the Nation, the State, and the Ogden Land Co. The 
 doctrine of discovery as laid down in Johnson v. Mcintosh (supra) does not recognize 
 an absolute fee in an Indian tribe, their right being that of possession only. We have 
 heretofore seen that the absolute fee was never placed in the Federal Government; 
 nor is it in the State of New York, the latter having ceded all right and title, except 
 that of sovereignty and jurisdiction, to Massachusetts. Massachusetts parted with 
 whatever title it acquired, and we find the present claimants to be the Ogden Land 
 Co. It is well, therefore, to examine with greater care the compact between Massa- 
 chusetts and New York. The second and tenth articles read: 
 
 "Secondly. The State of New York doth hereby cede, grant, release, and confirm 
 to the said Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and to the use of the Commonwealth, 
 their grantees, and the heirs and assigns of such grantees forever, the right of pre- 
 emption of the soil from the native Indians, and all their estate, right, title, and prop- 
 erty (the right and title of government, sovereignty, and jurisdiction excepted) 
 which the State of New York hath of, in, or to * * *" (description of land involved 
 
 follows). , , ■ 1 , 
 
 "Tenthly. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts may grant the right of preemption 
 of the whole or any part of the said lands and territories to any person or persons who 
 by virtue of such grant shall have good right to extinguish by purchase the claims of 
 the native Indians, providing, however, that no purchase from the native Indians by 
 anv such grantee or grantees shall be valid unless the same shall be made in the pres- 
 ence of and approved by a superintendent to be appointed for such purpose by the 
 Commonwealth of JIassachusetts, and having no interest in such purchase, and unless 
 such purchase shall be confirmed by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts." 
 In construing the foregoing, in Ogden v. Lee (supra), the court said: 
 "In the adjustment of the conflicting claims of the States of Massachusetts and New 
 York to the tract of country which includes the Cattaraugus Reservation Massachusetts 
 
586 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 ceded all her right to 'the government, sovereignty, and jurisdiction of the disputed 
 territory,' and New York ceded ' the right of preemption of the soil from the native 
 Indians.' The words which follow—' and all other the estate, right, title, and prop- 
 erty which the State of New York hath '—were not intended to enlarge the grant into 
 an unqualified fee. It is impossible to suppose the parties meant to disregardand set 
 aside the Indian title which they had but the moment before fully recognized by 
 contracting for ' the right of preemption of the soil from the native Indians. Tlus 
 point is rendered still more clear by a subsequent clause in the deed of cession. By 
 the tenth article the Commonwealth of Massachusetts was authorized to grant the 
 right of preemption,' and nothing more; and her grantees were only to acquire 
 'good right to extinguish by purchase the claim of the native Indians.' * * * 
 Their right (the Indians) is as perfect now as it was when the first European landed 
 on this continent, with the single exception that they can not sell without the consent 
 of the Government. The right of occupancy, to them and their heirs forever, remains 
 wholly unimpaired. Thejr are not tenants of the State nor of its grantees. They 
 hold under their own original title. The plaintiffs have acquired nothing but the 
 right to purchase whenever the owners may choose to sell." 
 
 The doctrine laid down in the foregoing appears sound. In any event, by eliminat- 
 ing the State and Federal Governments, in neither of whom it seems the fee exists, 
 and placing in juxtaposition the "title" of the Indians against that of the Ogden 
 Land Co., we instantly recognize the stronger — the Indians. The courts of both the 
 Nation and the State have repeatedly denied the right of the assignees of Massachu- 
 setts in any manner to interfere with the right of the Indians to the peaceful and con- 
 tinued possession of their soil. We dismiss, therefore, from further consideration 
 any attempt to determine the locus of the fee and admit, for all intents and purposes, 
 that it lies dormant and will remain dormant until present conditions are changed. 
 Some workable plan under which these conditions may be ameliorated is of far greater 
 import either to the Nation, the State, or the Indians than any fruitless pursuit of the 
 locus of the fee. 
 
 The Indians deny that the Ogden Land Co. has any valid claim to their lands, but 
 the convention between Massachusetts and New York involved upward of 6,000,000 
 acres and the validity of the original grant to Massachusetts, and the subsequent sale 
 by that State has been too long recognized and upheld by a long line of court decisions 
 to justify any attempt to repudiate the transaction at this late date. The title to mil- 
 lions and millions of dollars' worth of property in the western -part of New York is 
 based primarily on the convention between the two States. It is not seen how the 
 courts could repudiate it. In fact, it appears to have been confirmed by the National 
 Government. (Seneca Nation v. Christie, 162 U. S., 284, 285.) 
 
 Various attempts have been made from time to time to adjust the claim of the 
 Ogden Land Co., but without success. The act of August 15, 1894 (28 Stats., 301), 
 directed the Secretary of the Interior to investigate the claim of the company, which 
 investigation was had and report submitted to the Fiftv-third Congress, third session. 
 (S. Ex. Doc. No. 52.) Later, by art of March 2, 1895 (28 Stats., 887), the department 
 was authorized to negotiate with the Ogden Land Co. for the purchase of its claim, 
 which investigation was also had and report submitted to (Congress under date of 
 February 20, 1897. (H. Doc. No. 309, 54th Cong.) Laterbills were introduced looking 
 to a settlement of the matter (H. R. 12270, 53d Cong., and H. R. 7262, 54th Cong.), 
 both of which failed of enactment. 
 
 Matters thus stood until about 1905, when the Seneca Indians instituted suit against 
 Charles K. Appleby, surviving trustee, for the purpose of testing the extent and 
 vahdity of the Ogden Land Co.'s claim. This resulted in a decision by the Supreme 
 Court of the State of New York virtually recognizing the ultimate fee as being in the 
 Ogden Land Co., with right of possession in the Indians. As to the title of the Ogden 
 Land Co., the decision of the court is not of great import, but one suggestion made 
 by the court in its decision is of great interest at this time: 
 
 "The affirmance of the judgment (of the lower court) does not establish the propo- 
 sition that if the plaintiff becomes disintegrated that the defendant's title will vest 
 in possession at once. Allotment among the individual Indians by the plaintiff has 
 been permitted for a considerable period by the National Government.' Inheritance 
 is allowed in accordance with the statutes of the State of New York, and conveyances 
 amongst the Indians are also allowed. It may well be held that even though the 
 nation in its tribal capacity should be dissolved, if the individual Indian holds his 
 land by virtue of this recognized method of allotment, that the occupancy will con- 
 tinue to his most remote descendant." 
 
 In effect, this would intimate that the courts may find room to hold that allotment 
 of these lands among the Indians will not result in a disintegration of the tribe or 
 vesting of the right of the Ogden I^and Co., if any such right exists. In other words 
 
INDIAN APPEOPItlATION BILL. 58 Y 
 
 the lands may be allotted to individual members of the tribe and still remain subject 
 to the claim or right of the Ogden Land Co. This.seems to be the basis on which recent 
 proposed legislation by the National Government is founded. (H. R. 18733, 63d 
 Cong., 2d sess.) Whether that contention is sound remains yet to be seen. In 
 either event, no matter in what form this question is adjusted, the prospect of its 
 ultimately being thrown into the courts for decision is exceedingly strong. The 
 representatives of the Ogden Land Co., when last approached, placed what was 
 regarded as a fictitious value on their claim. If any compulsory method of settle- 
 ment is invoked, as by condemnation, it would necessitate the institution of proceed- 
 ings, with the Government acting as party plaintiff. Doubtless if the lands are 
 allotted subject to the right of the Ogden Land Co., representatives of that company 
 would promptly institute suit to test the power of the Federal Government so to do, 
 or the validity of the allotment so made; basing their claim on the theory that the 
 "ultimate fee" rests in them and the dissolution of the tribal organizations by allot- 
 ment vests full title in the company. 
 
 However, it is not seen how the power of the Federal Government to enforce a 
 division of these lands among the tribal membership can be denied. If whatever 
 title the tribe has to specified areas within these reservations is placed by authority 
 of Congress in individual members who would deny the power of Congress so to do? 
 I£ such action is had and the Ogden Land Co. or its assignees institute proceedings to 
 test the right of the individual Indians, necessarily the Government must stand behind 
 the Indian to defend his title. 
 
 The Indians not being satisfied with the decision found in The Seneca Indians v. 
 Appleby (127 A. D., 770), the case was appealed, and the Appellate Court of New 
 York dismissed the proceedings on the ground that the Indians were without power 
 to sue and that the lower court was without power to try and determine the cause 
 (196 N. Y., 318). This virtually nullified the decision of the lower courts and leaves 
 the matter still at large. After examining the numerous decisions by the State courts 
 relating to this matter, it is with great satisfaction one reviews the last case before the 
 appellate court of that State and finds therein the following: 
 
 "Nor is it at all a subject of regret that we find that the action can not be maintained. 
 On the contrary, we think it eminently wise of the legislature not to have authorized 
 a determination now of questions which may not arise until the remote future, and 
 whose determination, when they arise, may be seriously affected by considerations 
 we can not now foresee * * * The respondent contends that the rights of the 
 Indians will not survive the dissolution of the nation or tribal existence, while the 
 learned judge of the appellate division is of opinion that the rights continue as long 
 as the lands are actually occupied by Indians of the tribe, whether the tribe as an 
 entity continues to exist or not * * *. The question had much better be left till 
 the nation or tribe becomes disintegrated, when the courts of that day will doubtless 
 be competent to deal with it, as well as with the whole question of what rights, if any, 
 the defendant or his successors in interest have in the lands embraced in these 
 
 Did the fr'amers of the compact between Massachusetts and New York ever dream 
 of the future difficulties being stored up when they conceived the plan of divorcing 
 the right of preemption fi-om that of sovereignty? 
 
 The claim of the Ogden Land Co. has stood continuously as an effective stumbling 
 block to a ready solution of "the New York Indian problem." The company has not 
 heretofore been disposed to place a reasonable value on its claim, and the payment of 
 an exorbitant price should not be considered, m view of the doubtful nature of that 
 claim Within recent years many of the Indians have manifested a strong tendency 
 to object to any disturbance of that claim. After the decision of the appellate court 
 holding that they were without capacity to sue, the tribe applied to the State legisla- 
 ture and by that body was granted the requisite authority. The matter was dropped 
 at that point, however, as the Indians began to fear that any disturbance of the claim 
 woum result 'in a speedy allotment in severa ty, a dissolution of their tribal organiza- 
 tions, and the assumption of full responsibilities of citizenship In other words the 
 claim has acted as a blanket to protect them from these ultimate ends, which they do 
 notTpp^arto dSire AfmattW now stand they enjoy the full benefits accorded 
 other residents of the State, such as adequate school facilities, excellent highways 
 consLrcted^thL theh- reservations at the expense of the State yet at the same time 
 their property is exempt from taxation and the Indians are not bound by financial 
 obligatioTarising under contracts. From a personal or selfish standpoint, therefore, 
 
 ^A^itr^n^Spen^e'tlfS' maintains 33 'schools exclusively for Indians and 
 
 1 = qvtPachers therein If the State is denied the right to tax their lands, should 
 
 T^^Ii^L^dt!XvoTvrotec^^ and educate the Indians? Has the Nation been 
 
588 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 altogether fair to the State in this matter? Should not this be a burden upon the 
 Nation rather than the State? If the Nation denies financial responsibility, should 
 the State be denied the right to tax or to take such other steps as may be necessary to 
 
 ^°By invitetion,°from time to time, the State legislative assembly has invited these 
 people to divide their lands in severalty and the courts of the State have respected, 
 as fully as possible, the division so made. Beyond this the Sta,te could not go, as the 
 Nation has guaranteed these people peaceful possession of their soil, ine btate Has 
 been without power to compel a division of their lands as this power is peculiarly 
 
 vested in the Nation. . , -^^ cc t. • 
 
 March 21, 1888, the State legislative assembly appointed a committee of nve to inves- 
 tigate the Indian problem in New York, and the report of that committee, with exten- 
 sive exhibits covering some 410 pages of printed matter, was presented to the assembly 
 under date of January 31, 1889. Much valuable data can be gathered from that report 
 and the specific recommendations made by that committee are not without interest 
 even at this time. They read: 
 
 " 1. That a compulsory attendance school law be enacted. 
 
 "2. That the legislature request the General Government to take actionto extin- 
 guish the claim of the Ogden Co. to the lands of the Senecas, and that portion of the 
 Tuscaroras, covered by it. 
 
 "3. That the lands of the several reservations be allotted in severalty among the 
 several members of the tribe, with suitable restrictions as to alienation to whites, and 
 protection from judgments and other debts; but such division not to go into effect as to 
 lands affected by the Ogden Co. 's claim until that claim be removed. This allotment 
 in severalty ought not to be limited to a division of the possession of the land,_ but 
 should comprise a radical uprooting of the whole tribal system, giving to each indi- 
 vidual absolute ownership of his share of the land in fee. 
 
 "4. The repeal of all existing laws relating to the Indians of the State, excepting 
 those prohibiting sale of liquors to them and intrusion upon their lauds, the exten- 
 sion of the laws of the State over them, and their absorption into citizenship." 
 
 The State subsequently enacted, and has with a reasonable measure of success en- 
 forced, a compulsory attendance school law, but as to the other recommendations they 
 stand to-day practically as when made 26 yeai-s ago. How much longer must the 
 State await the pleasure of the Nation in offering a solution of the problem? That 
 present conditions should be permitted to continue indefinitely on these reservations 
 would be a shame upon the Nation and a disgrace to the State. In a majority of these 
 tribes the infusion of white blood has been so great that out of an "Indian" popula- 
 tion of over 5,000 in the State one will find scarcely a single full blood, less than 500 
 half bloods, and a great number -svith so much white blood that only the closest scrutiny 
 of a keen observer will disclose any Indian characteristics. The remnants of the 
 former tribes on Long Island have intermarried so largely with negroes that the 
 present descendants are more nearly negro than Indian. 
 
 All of these people deserve but scant sympathy, therefore, as "Indians," although 
 any adjustment of their aflairs should be based on sound principles of justice and hu- 
 manity. A large percentage of them have reached a comparatively advanced stage of 
 education, and civilization along certain lines. Many of them are progressive, shrewd, 
 keen, business men ivith large land holdings, fine homes, excellent barns, up-to- 
 date farming implements, and in a number of cases even automobiles. On some of 
 these reservations marriage to a larse extent consists of but cohabitation, and divorce 
 but separation at pleasure. In the midst of thri\'ing communities, in some cases 
 adjacent to large cities, the continuance of such conditions is abhorrent to the finer 
 sensibilities of civilized mankind. The cause should have been removed long since, 
 and no doubt would have been, had the power existed in the State to force an effec- 
 tive solution' of the problem. 
 
 Nothing in the forgoing should be constiTied as intending to imply that these reser- 
 vations are hotbeds of iniquity <'r corruption. Among these people will be found 
 many upright, honorable men and women, who are law-abiding, self-respecting 
 inhabitants, but the lax enforcement of the law on these reservations allows the 
 unruly element full license to do pretty much what they please. Being powerless 
 to dissolve the tribal organizations and to compel a division of the lands among the 
 Indians, the State could only abide in patience the time when either the Nation 
 would remove the obstacles or the Indians voluntarily agree to a relinquishment of 
 their title. Thus the tribes to a large extent have been left to themselves, both by 
 the Nation and the State, in so far as police supervision and internal government is 
 concerned. Doubtless the State hae been influenced in its action by the doubtful 
 question of jurisdiction and the superior power of the Federal Government over the 
 subject matter. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 589 
 
 One of the most serious difficulties, however, presented in connection with a solution 
 ° 11 ^^}^^ ^^^ i^ *^^ f^ct that to all intents and purposes these reservations were 
 allotted" years ago. The Indians, under their tnbal government, have divided 
 the lands among themselves; valuable improvements have been erected, and transfers 
 have been made by sale, purchase, gift, or otherwise, until the present claimants are 
 confirmed m their respective holdings by recognition of the tribal officers, by the tribal 
 membership at large, and even by the State courts, who have upheld such transac- 
 tions. Shrewd members of the various tribes in many cases have acquired land holdings 
 many times in excess of the number of acres to wliich they would be entitled under a 
 present pro rata division. Naturally, to a man, such owners are opposed to any settle- 
 ment wliich would not recognize and confirm their present possession, the title to 
 which they could in many cases prove by inheritance or purchase for valuable consid- 
 erations. Cases may be found, of course, where the acquisition would not bear the 
 light of close investigation, but in the majority of cases it will be found that rightful 
 inheritance or the payment of adequate consideration has been the basis of the "tile" 
 over and above the acreage to which the present owner would be entitled under a pro 
 rata division. 
 
 Those members of the tribes who possess no land naturally are in favor of a division 
 of the tribal property. If their right as a member of one of these tribes is worth any- 
 thing in dollars and cents they want it, and the faction of the tribes favoring a division 
 is composed largely of this class. A few, having in their possession only the approxi- 
 mate number of acres to wliich they would be entitled, in case of a pro rata allotment, 
 or who have a family with sufficient members to absorb the entire area now occupied, 
 would be very glad to receive ultimate title with power to convey to outsiders, as on 
 practically every reservation such power, coupled with their present title, would prac- 
 tically double the per acre value of their lands, which, even at this date, is by no 
 means inconsiderable. 
 
 The lands of the St. Regis Reservation are fertile farming lands and many of these 
 Indians are expert dairymen. The Tuscarora Reservation lies within one of the most 
 fertile parts of the State of New York and the lands there are very valuable both for 
 agricultural and fruit-raising purposes. The Shinnecock E,eservation on Long Island 
 is not of an exceedingly high value for agricultural purposes, yet these lands are so 
 beautifully situated on Shinnecock Bay — a small arm of the Atlantic Ocean — that 
 to-day they have an actual value of approximately $2,000 per acre for building-site 
 purposes. Many wealthy people from New York City and elsewhere have built 
 fine summer homes in Southampton, which is but two miles distant from this reserve, 
 and within which unimproved land is worth about $5,000 per acre at this time. On the 
 Onondaga, Tonawanda, Allegany, and Cattaraugus Reservations the valley lands 
 are very fertile, and have been improved and cultivated for many years past. Any 
 timber of commercial value on the hills within these reservations has been removed 
 long since and these lands are now mainly valuable for grazing purposes. The average 
 value of the lands within these reservations will closely approximate $60 per acre. 
 
 Before any attempt is made to suggest an adjustment of present land holdings an 
 accurate survey of each reservation should be made, the present owner of each acre 
 ascertained, the maimer in which title was acquired looked into, and the general 
 conditions stiidied with a view of offering the most equitable plan, both to the present 
 holders and the tribe at large. In brief, each reservation should be made the subject 
 of a special study and such measures taken as would best fit conditions on that par- 
 ticular reservation. Any broadside legislation applying indiscriminately to all these 
 reservations and designed to affect present land holdings, aside from meeting strenuous 
 opposition, might produce disaster. At present these people are contented, fairly 
 prosperous, and in a few cases wealthy to a limited extent. The greatest present need 
 on these reservations is proper police supervision and the enforcement of the law. 
 The peace officers of the State have been chary about enforcing State laws, moved m 
 part by the doubtful question of jurisdiction, and possibly more so by the uncertain 
 outcome of any attempt to collect their usual fees. ^, ^ ^, 
 
 Each reservation should be provided with an officer with full powers to see that the 
 law is obeyed The power now placed in the hands of the tribal organizations should 
 be promptly curtailed, as, in the past, this power has too frequently been used for 
 selffsh Durposes, or in other cases has not been exercised to compel order and obedience 
 to the laws ik the past, the State has been burdened with practicaUy all expense 
 connected with whatever enforcement of the law has been compelled alHocal edu- 
 cational faciUties furnished, and yet its ha,nds have been effectually tied "i so far as 
 taVption of the Dropertv of these people is concerned. The Nation should either 
 untie the knot by turning the entire matter over absolutely to the State, or else assume 
 full jurisdiction and effectually enforce it. 
 
590 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 In view of the superior jurisdiction and power of the Federal Government over the 
 subject-matter, its broader experience in dealing with Indian problems, the urgent 
 need for some remedial legislation and the inability of the State to offer or force a 
 feasible solution, it is suggested that the matter be placed before Congress with recom- 
 mendations that legislation to accomplish the following results be speedily enacted 
 to — 
 
 1. Promptly curtail the power and authority now lodged in the respective tribal 
 organizations. 
 
 2. Place one or more representatives of the Federal government on each reservation 
 with full powers to maintain order and enforce obedience to the laws, such officers to 
 be subordinate to the special agent or other officer in charge of the New York Indians. 
 
 3. Declare the Indian reservations in the State of New York to be "Indian country" 
 within the meaning of the Federal statutes prohibiting the introduction of intoxicants 
 into such country. 
 
 4. Provide for an accurate survey of the lands within each reservation so as to de- 
 termine the present owner or claimant of each acre therein, the time when and manner 
 in which such possession was acquired and the equitable right of such owner thereto; 
 which should be coupled with an investigation as to present membership of the tribe 
 owning lands and those who are without such means. 
 
 Possession of information suggested in the preceding paragraphs should enable 
 specific recommendations to be made with a view of suggesting an equitable adjust- 
 ment of the New York Indian problem. 
 
 Appreciating fully the need in the Indian Office of a ready reference to at least some 
 of the many court decisions, congressional documents, and miscellaneous papers re- 
 lating to the New York Indians, an index of the character indicated has oeen pre 
 pared and attached hereto as an appendix. 
 Respectfully, 
 
 John R. T. Reeves. 
 
 Appendix. 
 
 The New York Indians. 
 
 teeaties. 
 
 October 22, 1784 (7 Stats., 15), with the Six Nations. 
 January 9, 1789 (7 Stats., 33), with the Six Nations. 
 November 11, 1794 (7 Stats., 44), with the Six Nations. 
 December 2, 1794 (7 Stats., 47), Oneidas, Tuscaroras, and Stockbridges. 
 May 31, 1796 (7 Stats., 55), Seven Nations of Canada. 
 March 29, 1797 (7 Stats., 61), Mohawks. 
 
 September 15, 1797 (7 Stats., 601), Senecas and Robert Morris. 
 June 30, 1802 (7 Stats., 70). Senecas. 
 
 February 8, 1831 (7 Stats., 342), and October 27, 1832 (7 Stats., 407), Menominees in 
 Wisconsin cede land for the New York Indians. 
 January 15, 1838 (7 Stats., 550), with the Six Nations. 
 May 20, 1842 (7 Stats., 586) Senecas. 
 February 13, 1838 (7 Stats,, 560), St. Regis. 
 June 27, 1846 (9 Stats., 35), Senecas. 
 November 5, 1857 (11 Stats. 735; 12 Stats., 991), Tonawandas. 
 
 ACTS. 
 
 Februarj 19, 1875 (18 Stats., 330), leasing, surveys, etc., Seneca 
 September 30, 1890 (26 Stats., 558), leasing. 
 
 Februarv 20, 1893 (27 Stats., 470), leasing 
 June 10, 1896 (29 Stats., 340\ leasing 
 June 6. 1897 (30 Stats., 89), leasing. 
 February 28, 1901 (31 Stats., 819), leasing. 
 March 3, 1901 (31 Stats., 1809), leasing 
 May 30, 1908 (35 Stats., 535"), leasing. 
 February 21, 1911 (36 Stats., 927), leasing. 
 May 25, 1878 (20 Stats., 535), surveys, Cattaraugus. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 591 
 
 CONGRESSIONAL DOCUMENTS RELATING TO LEASES. 
 
 House Report No. 2786, Fifty-first Congress, first session, volume 21, page 17636. 
 
 Senate Report No. 1680. Fifty-first Congress, first session, volume 22, page 19130. 
 
 Senate .Report No. 2293, Fifty-second Congress, second session, volume 30, page 
 26041. 
 
 Senate Report No. 23, Fifty-fourtli Congress, second session, volume 39, page 36076. 
 
 Senate Report No. 76, Fifty-fifth Congress, first session, volume 40, page 37430. 
 
 Senate Report No. 145, Fifty-fifth Congress, second session, volume 44, p. 40759. 
 
 House Report No. 2655, Fifty-seventh Congress, first session, volume 55, page 51408. 
 
 House Report No. 2020, Sixty-first Congress, third session. 
 
 House Report No. 366, Sixty-second Congress, second session. 
 
 Some of the reports listed are duplicates of prior reports, but are here given for con- 
 venient reference. The volume and page numbers are to "Miscellaneous Indian 
 Documents" on file in the Indian Office library. 
 
 STATE COURT DECISIONS RELATING TO LEASES. 
 
 Ryan i;. Knorr (19 Hun., 540). 
 
 Baker v. Johns (38 Hun., 625). 
 
 Sheehan v. Maver (41 Hun.. 609). 
 
 Sheehan v. Mayer (affirmed) (129 A. D., 675). 
 
 Shongo V. Miller (45 A. D., 339). 
 
 Wait V. Jemison (15 A. N. C, 382). 
 
 Buffalo, etc., Ry. Co. v. Lowry (75 Hun., 396). 
 
 Buffalo, etc., Ry. Co. v. Lowry (affirmed) (149 A. D., 576). 
 
 Reservation Gas Co. et al. v. Snyder (decided Dec. 7, 1914. Not yet reported. 
 Held that oil deposits are tribal property rather than individual). 
 
 Abbreviations: A. D., Appellate Division; A. N. C, Abbott's New Cases; Hun., 
 Reports of the State Supreme Court. 
 
 THE KANSAS AWARD. 
 
 Act January 28, 1893 (27 Stats., 426), authority Court of Claims to hear. 
 Act February 9, 1900 (31 Stats., 27), appropriation to pay judgment of. 
 Act March 3, 1901 (31 Stats., 1077), disposition of proceeds. 
 Act May 27, 1902 (32 Stats., 263), disposition of proceeds. 
 Act April 21, 1904 (33 Stata., 208), disposition of proceeds. 
 Act March 3, 1909 (35 Stats., 800), disposition of proceeds. 
 
 CONGRESSIONAL DOCUMENTS RELATING TO KANSAS AWARD. 
 
 Executive Document Y, Fortieth Congress, third session. 
 
 House Document No. 751, Forty-sixth Congress, second session, volume 6, pages 
 
 4142-4144 
 House Document No. 449, Forty-seventh Congress, first session, volume 8, pages 
 
 6260-6269. „ ^, „ , . 
 
 Senate Miscellaneous Document No. 38, Forty-seventh Congress, second session, 
 
 volume 8, page 6887. , „ , • i o 
 
 House Document No. 2001, Forty-seventh Congress, second session, volume 8, page 
 
 7029 
 House Document No. 673, Forty-eighth Congress, first session, volume 11, page 8079. 
 House Document No. 15, Fiftieth Congress, first session, volume 18, page 14375 
 Senate Miscellaneous Document No. 76, Fiftieth Congress, first session, volume 18, 
 
 t)affe 14926 
 Senate Document No. 508, Fiftieth Congress, first session, volume 19, page 15449. 
 House Executive Document No. 298, Fiftieth Congress, first session, volume 19, 
 
 ^ House Document No. 26, Fifty-first Congress, first session, volume 20 page 16977. 
 Senate Document No. 1393, Fifty-first Congress, first session, volume 22, page 19098. 
 Senate Miscellaneous Document No. 46, Fifty-second Congress, first session, volume 
 
 ^^sS^^ocument No. 910, Fifty-second Congress, first session, volume 29, page 
 
 ^^stnate Document No. 761, Forty-eighth Congress, first session, volume 41, page 
 
 ^Sse Document No. 1693, Fifty-sixth Congress, first session, volume 50, page 47102. 
 
692 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senate Document No. 322, Fifty-sixth Congress, first session, volume 51, page 48091. 
 
 Senate Document No. 91, Fifty-sixth Congress, first session, volume 52, page 4H&fad. 
 
 Senate Document No. 285, Fifty-eighth Congress, second session, volume 62, page 
 58588 
 
 Some of the reports are dupUcates. Volume and page references are to "Miscel- 
 laneous Indian Documents," on file in the Indian Office library. 
 
 COURT DECISIONS RELATING TO THE KANSAS AWARD. 
 
 New York Indians v. U. S. (30 C. Cls. Repts., 413; 33 C. Cls. Repta., 510; 40 C. 
 Cls. Repts., 448; 41 0. Cls. Repts., 462; 170 U. S., 1). 
 U. S. V. New York Indians (-173 U. S., 464). 
 
 THE OGDBN LAND CO. 
 
 Act August 15, 1894 (28 Stats., 301). 
 Act March 2, 1895 (28 Stats., 887)., 
 
 CONGRESSIONAL DOCUMENTS RELATING TO OGDEN LAND CO. 
 
 House Document No. 478, Forty-third Congress, first session. 
 
 Senate Executive Document No. 52, Fifiy-third Congress, third session, volume 34, 
 page 31161. 
 
 Senate Executive Document No. 154, Fifty-fourth Congress, second session, volume 
 39^age 36245. 
 
 Elouse Document No. 2591, Fifty-seventh Congress, volume 55, page 51405. 
 
 Hearings on H. R. 7262, Fifty-eighth Congress, volume 58, page 54115. 
 
 DOCUMENTS OTHER THAN CONGRESSIONAL. 
 
 By the Society of Friends, volume 3, page 2906. 
 
 By the Society of Friends, volume 37, page 34375. 
 
 By the Board of Indian Commissioners, volume 20, page 16923. 
 
 By Hon. Daniel Sherman, volume 31, page 27139. 
 
 By a special committee (State assembly. No. 40), volume 75 (1906), page 65969. 
 
 By a special committee (State assembly. No. 51), volume 41 (1889), page 37863 fine. 
 
 All of the foregoing do not relate exclusively to the Ogden Land Co.'s claim, but 
 cover conditions existing generally at the time when prepared. Volume and page 
 references are to "Miscellaneous Indian Documents," Indian OffiSe library. 
 
 COURT DECISIONS RELATING TO THE OGDEN LAND CO.'S CLAIM. 
 
 Ogden V. Lee (6 Hill, 546). 
 
 Fellows V. Lee (5 Den., 628). 
 
 Wadsworth v. Buff. Hyd. Asso. (15 Barb., 83). 
 
 People V. Pierce (18 Misc., 83). 
 
 Blacksmith v. Fellows (7 N. Y., 401). 
 
 Fellows V. Blacksmith (19 How., 366). 
 
 New York v. Dibble (21 How., 366). 
 
 The New York Indians (5 WaL, 761). 
 
 Seneca Nation v. Christie (49 Hun., 524; 126 N. Y., 122; 162 U. S., 283). 
 
 Seneca Nation v. Appleby (127 A. D., 770; 196 N. Y., 318). 
 
 Jemison v. Bell Telephone Co. (186 N. Y., 493). 
 
 The New York Indians v. United States (30 Ct. Cls., 413). 
 
 Unless otherwise specified references are to New York State Court Reports. Many of 
 the cases hereinafter cited under the Seneca and Tonawanda Tribes also touch on the 
 origin and nature of the Ogden Land Co.'s claim. 
 
 References: Barb., Barbour; How., Howard; U. S., Supreme Court; WaL, Wallace; 
 U. S. reports; A. D., Appellate Division New York State Court Reports. 
 
 Leading cases of the United States Supreme Court touching on the Indian question 
 generally, especially titles and the power of the Federal Government over their affairs, 
 but not relating specifically to the Indians in New York: 
 
 Johnson v. Jlclntosh (8 Wheat., 543). 
 
 Cherokee Nation v. Georgia (5 Pet., 1). 
 
 Wooster v. Georgia (6 Pet., 515.) 
 
 Mitchell V. United States (9 Pet., 711). 
 
 The Kansas Indians (5 WaL, 737). 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 593 
 
 Cherokee Tobacco Case (11 Wal., 616). 
 United States v. Cook (19 Wal., 591). 
 United States v. Kagama (118 U. S., 375). 
 Choctaw Nation v. United States (119 U. S., 1). 
 Lone Wolf v. Hitchcock (187 U. S., 553). 
 
 Supreme Court Decisions relating exclusively to the New York Indians: 
 Fellows V. Blacksmith (19 How., 366). 
 New York v. Dibble (21 How., 366). 
 The New York Indians (5 Wal., 761). 
 Seneca Nation v. Christie (162 U. S., 283). 
 New York Indiana v. United States (170 U. S., 1). 
 United States v. New York Indians (173 U. S., 464). 
 See also Benson v. United States (44 Fed., 178). 
 Court decisions relating to New York Indians, arranged by Tribes: 
 Cases marked * will be found to contain valuable ii3ormation. 
 References: A. D., Appellate Division; N. Y., New York Supreme Court Reports; 
 How., Howard; U. S., Supreme Court Reports; Den., Denio; State Court Reports. 
 
 TONAWANDA. 
 
 Jemison v. Bell Telephone Co. (109 A. D., 911): 
 
 Jemison v. Bell Telephone Co. (affirmed) (186 N. Y., 493). 
 
 * Hatch V. Luckman (64 Misc., 508). 
 
 * Hatch V. Luckman (155 A. D., 765). 
 Blacksmith v. Fellows (7 N. Y., 401). 
 Fellows V. Blacksmith (19 How., 366). 
 New York v. Dibble (21 How., 366). 
 People V. Soper (7 N. Y., 428). 
 Blacksmith -v. Tracy (1 Den., 617). 
 
 TUSCAEOEA. 
 
 In re Jack (52 Misc., 424). 
 
 Peters v. Tallchief (52 Misc., 617). 
 
 *Peters v. Tallchief (reversed) (121 A. D., 309). 
 
 Cusick V. Daly (78 Misc., 657). 
 
 *Cusick V. Daly (reversed) (212 N. Y., 183). 
 
 Bates V. Printup (31 Misc., 17). 
 
 In re Printup (121 A. D., 322). 
 
 CAYUGA. 
 
 *Cayuga Nation v. Land Commissioners (74 Misc., 154). 
 *Cayuga Nation v. Land Commissioners (reversed) (152 A. D., 543) 
 *Cayuga Nation v. Land Commissioners (reversal affirmed) (207 N. Y., 42). 
 Cayuga Nation v. State (99 N. Y., 235). 
 
 MONTAUK. 
 
 *PharohD. Benson (69 Misc., 241). ^ , „ , .^ ^,„, 
 Montauk Tribe v. Long Island R. R. Co. (28 A. D 470). 
 Johnson V. Long Island R. R. Co. (162 N. Y., 462). 
 
 ST. BBGIS. 
 
 *Terrance v. Crowly (62 Misc., 138). 
 
 St. Regis Indians v. Drum (19 John., 127). 
 
 SENECA. 
 
 Seneca Nation v. Jemison (62 Misc., 91). 
 Silverheels v. Maybee (82 Mi8C^48). 
 *Seneca Nation v. Christie 49 Hun 524) 
 *Seneca Nation ^- Gl^riftie (126 N. Y. 122). 
 Seneca Nation v. Christie (162 US. 283 
 *Seneca Nation v. Appleby 127 A. D 77U). 
 *Seneca Nation v. Appleby (dismissed) (196 N. Y., 3ia). 
 Dole V. Irish (2 Barb., 639). 
 82833 — TOL 1 — 15 38 
 
594 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Jemison v. Pierce (78 A. D., 9). 
 
 Shongo V. Miller, et. al. (45 A. D., 339). 
 
 Ryan v. Knorr (19 Hun., 540). 
 
 Seneca Nation v. Lehly (55 Hun., 83). 
 
 Jones V. Gordon et. al. (51 Misc., 305). 
 
 Jimeson v. Lehly (51 Misc., 352). 
 
 Jemison v. Kennedy (55 Hun., 47). 
 
 Buffalo, etc., Hyd. Asso. v. Lowry (75 Hun. 396). 
 
 Grouse v. N. Y. & O. B. R. Co. (49 Hun., 576). 
 
 Singer Sewing Machine Co. v. Hill (60 Hun., 347). 
 
 Seneca Nation v. Huggaboom (182 N. Y., 493). 
 
 People V. Pierce (18 Misc., 83). 
 
 Wait V. Jemison (15 A. N. C, 382). 
 
 *Wadsworth v. Buff. Hyd. Asso. (15 Barb., 83). 
 
 Strong and Gordon v. Waterman, (11 Paige, 607). 
 
 Fellows V. Denniston, (23 N. Y., 420). 
 
 The New York Indians, (5 Wal., 761). 
 
 ONONDAGA. 
 
 *George v. Pierce, (85Miscl., 105). 
 
 George v. Pierce (same case reported in) (148 N. Y., Sup. 230). 
 
 Onondaga Nation v. Thacher (29 Miscl., 428). 
 
 Onondaga Nation v. Thacher (affirmed) (53 A. D., 561). 
 
 Hastings v. Ellis (3 Barb., 492). 
 
 Hastings v. Parmer (4 N. Y., 293). 
 
 ONEIDA. 
 
 Jackson v. Wood (7 John., 290). 
 Jackson v. Sharp (14 John., 472). 
 Jackson v. Goodall (20 John., 188). 
 Goodell V. Jackson (20 John., 693). 
 Boylan v. George (133 A. D., 514). 
 Dana v. Dana (14 John., 181). 
 
 Many of the cases cited relate to such matters as tribal and individual property 
 rights — tribal government and customs, inheritance, crimes, police power of the 
 Sfaite, right of eminent domain, jurisdiction. State and Federal, etc., and a rear- 
 rangement of the cases according to their respective subject matters would prove 
 convenient. The number of cases reported however, is not so great as to render it 
 burdensome to find a few decisions relating to any of the subject-matters mentioned, 
 and one case will carry cross references to other decisions relating to the same matter. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. FRANK KNOX, MEMBER OF THE BOARD 
 [OF INDIAN COMMISSIONERS. 
 
 Mr. Knox. Mr. Chairman, I do not know that I can add anything 
 to what has been said by my colleague. I became a member of the 
 commission about three years ago with the desire and the intention 
 of assisting in making this a meaning organization — an organization 
 that would really be useful to the Government. Mr. Ayer, Mr. 
 Dockweiler, and myseM were the three appointees who went on the 
 commission. It was only last year that sufficient funds were supplied 
 to make it possible for the commission to really undertake serious 
 work. Since this 110,000 appropriation was available a division of 
 the work for the ensuing year was made among the various members 
 of the commission, and to myself was assigned the investigation of the 
 situation of the Ute Eeservation in Colorado and Utah, and the date 
 of that is next spring. So I have not yet reached the point of activity 
 that some of my colleagues have, and I can not speak therefore from 
 experience. 
 
 I merely wish to reiterate the desire which has already been 
 expressed by other members of the commission, to be useful. We all 
 
INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 595 
 
 have our personal aflFairs to attend to, and we give our time to this 
 work from a sense of public spirit. If we are not to be supplied with 
 sufficient funds to make oui work really fruitful and desu-able, we 
 had better be dispensed with. If we can be useful, and Congress 
 feels that we are of use and supplies us with funds so that we can be 
 useful, I am svu-e that the members of this commission will do their 
 very best as citizens to be useful in this capacity. 
 
 I thank you, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen. 
 
 The Chaikman. Gentlemen, I am sure I express the views of the 
 entire committee when I say that we thank you gentlemen for your 
 statements and are glad to have had you appear before us. 
 
 (The Board of Indian Commissioners thereupon withdrew.) 
 
 The Chairman. Senators, we have finished the consideration of the 
 bUl, with the exception of the following three items, the expenses of 
 the Board of Indian Commissioners, the pro rata distribution to the 
 Choctaws and Chickasaws, and the Sioux treaty item. What is tha 
 pleasure of the committee ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. Is it the intention of the committee to take up 
 the matter of .the appropriation for the commission first 1 
 
 The Chairman. Yes; that is the first item. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I move that the appropriation be increased to 
 $10,000. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 PRO RATA DISTRIBUTION PAYMENT TO CHOCTAWS AND CHICKASAWS 
 
 The Chairman. The Chair will entertain a motion with regard to 
 that item. 
 
 Senator Owen. I move that it stand as the House proposed it. 
 
 Senator Gronna. That proposes a provision which affects the 
 amendment introduced by myself the other day. I would hke to 
 make a brief statement in regard to that. 
 
 Senator Thompson. What page of the biU is that ? 
 
 The Chairman. It is page 27 of the comparison, at the top of the 
 page. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I simply want to make a brief statement, Mr. 
 Chairman. 
 
 The Chairman. The amendment will be read. 
 
 (The clerk read the amendment, as follows:) 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to pay to the 
 enrolled members of the Choctaw and Chickaeaw Tribes of Indians of Oklahoma entitled 
 under existing law to share in the funds of said tribes or to their lawful heirs, out 
 of any moneys belonging to said tribes in the United States Treasury or deposited 
 in any bank or held by any official under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the 
 Interior, not to exceed $200 per capita in the case of the Choctaws and $100 per 
 capita in the case of the Chickasaws, said payment to be made under such rules and 
 regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe: Provided, That m cases 
 where such enrolled members or their heirs are Indians who by reason of their degree 
 of Indian blood belong to the restricted class, the Secretary of the Interior may, 
 in his discretion withhold such payments and use the same for the benefit of such 
 restricted Indians: Provided further, That the money paid to the enrolled members as 
 provided herein shall be exempt from any lien for attorneys' fees or other debt con- 
 tracted prior to the passage of this act, except where contracts have been heretofore 
 approved by the Secretary of the Interior, in accordance with existmg law: Provided 
 further That such contract shall first be approved by the existing Department of the 
 Interior- And provided further, however: That the Court of Claims is hereby granted 
 jurisdiction to try and decide the following questions of difference ansmg out of 
 
596 INDIAN APPEOPEIAHON BILL. 
 
 treaty stipulations between the United States Government and t^i? Choctaw Nation • 
 First, whether any identified or unidentified Choctaw Indians of the full blood or 
 with one-half Choctaw blood, who now live in Mississippi, and whose names do not 
 now appear upon the final roUs of the Choctaw Nation are now entitled to any privi- 
 leges of Choctaw citizens, or any legal or equitable rights m th tribal property of the 
 Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma. Second, and whether they have any legal or equitable 
 claims against the Government of the United States. That said Court of Claims, 
 in trying and deciding said questions, is hereby granted authority to consider the 
 actions of the Choctaw Nation, the treaties between the Choctaw Nation and the 
 United States Government, the laws passed by Congress, the decisions of commis- 
 sioners and judgments of courts, and to try and decide the entire questions ol ditter- 
 ence de novo. That any claimant as a Mississippi Choctaw who is not now upon 
 the final rolls of the Choctaw Nation shall have the right for and on behalf of himself, 
 and any other claimants as Mississippi Choctaws, to begin the ascertamment of the 
 judgment of the Court of Claims on said questions by filmg m the Court of Claims a 
 petition stating the facts upon which said Mississippi Choctaws base their claims to 
 enrollment upon the final rolls of the Choctaw Nation, and in all respects the rules 
 and practices of the Court of Claims shall be followed, and the Court of Claims shall 
 give said case, when filed, preference on the docket and shall transmit its findings 
 to the Congress of the United States. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not think we ought to consider items here that 
 are not fully before the committee. I think such items ought to be 
 thrown out. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I submitted an 
 amendment which has just been read at the request of both of the 
 ■ Senators from Mississippi, Senator WiUiams and Senator Varda- 
 man. I have no personal interest in it at all. I do not loiow as 
 much about it as some other Senators do, but I simply want to make 
 this request, that before the matter submitted by the Senator from 
 Oklahoma is passed upon that both Senators from Mississippi be 
 given an opportunity^ to be heard. They make that request, and I 
 told them I would submit it to the committee. That is all I care 
 to say. 
 
 •Senator Owen. Let them be summoned. 
 
 The Chairman. In this connection the following letter will be 
 inserted in the record : 
 
 Washington, D. C, February S, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. C. 
 
 My Dear Senator: The Indian appropriation bill, which is now being considered 
 by the Committee on Indian Affairs of the Senate, contains a provision authorizing a per 
 capita payment of |200 to the enrolled members of the Choctaw Nation and a pay- 
 ment of 1100 to the enrolled members of the Chickasaw Nation. 
 
 Every member of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes is the owner of an equal undi- 
 vided interest in the tribal property of both tribes. The Chickasaws received a per 
 capita payment of $100 last year. The Choctaws received no payment. The pro- 
 vision now carried in the bill, if enacted, will equalize the amount received from tribal 
 funds by the Choctaws and Chickasaws. 
 
 I am advised that an effort will be made by those who espouse the claim of the 
 so-called Mississippi Choctaws to prevent the enactment of the provision referred to 
 and that an attempt will be made to reopen the rolls of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations for the enrollment of the alleged Mississippi Choctaws. 
 
 I call your attention to the fact that on March 10, 1899, the Dawes Commission 
 reported that there were extremely few, if any, Indians in Mississippi who could prove 
 a right to enrollment as citizens of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. At that time 
 there Was much agitation for the enrollment of the so-called Mississippi Choctaws, and 
 in the agreement approved July 1, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641) between the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Nations and the United States, a compromise was reached on the Mississippi 
 Choctaw claim. 
 
 The Choctaws and Chickasaws agreed to enroll, as a gratuity, all full-blood Choctaw 
 Indians who then resided in Mississippi, if they would remove to the Choctaw or 
 Chickasaw Nations. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 597 
 
 Under this agreement 1,634 Mississippi Choctaws were enrolled and received allot- 
 ments in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. With a few exceptions the entire 1,634 
 •Were enrolled under the full-blood rule of evidence and were not required to prove a 
 right to enrollment. The approximate value of the property received by these 1,634 
 persons is §15,000^000. This is the price paid by the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations 
 for a settlement of the Mississippi Choctaw claim in 1902. 
 
 In consideration for this concession on the part of the Choctaws and (Jhickasaws, 
 the Government agreed to close the rolls, to sell the residue of tribal property, and dis- 
 tribute the proceeds per capita among the em-olled members of the tribes. The United 
 States Government has not performed its part of the agreement. 
 
 The agreement of 1902, above referred to, contained the following provision: 
 
 "No person whose name does not appear upon the rolls prepared as herein provided 
 shall be entitled in any manner to participate in the distribution of the common 
 property of the Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes, and those whose names appear therein 
 shall participate in the manner set forth in this agi'eement." 
 
 The act of April 26, 1906, declared the rolls of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations 
 closed in the following language: 
 
 "Provided, That the rolls of the tribes (Choctaw and Chickasaw) affected by this 
 act shall be fully completed on or before the 4th day of JIarch, 1907, and the Secretary 
 of the Interior shall have no jurisdiction to approve the enrollment of any person 
 after that date." 
 
 The rolls of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations are therefore closed, and have been 
 closed since the 4th day of March, 1907. 
 
 The claim which is now being presented by the proponents of the legislation for the 
 enrollment of Mississippi Choctaws has heretofore been fully considered and decided 
 adversely to the so-called Mississippi Choctaws by the following tribunals and officials: 
 
 1. 1897: The Federal courts of Indian Territory. (Jack Amos v. Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Nations. Jurisdiction affirmed by Supreme Court, Stephens v. Cherokee 
 Nation, 174 U. S., 44.5.) 
 
 2 1898: The Dawes Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes. (Seereports Jan. 28, 
 1898, and Mar. 10, 1899.) 
 
 3. 1902: The Choctaw and Chickasaw people, and the United States Government 
 in the preparation of the supplemental agreement of July 1, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641). 
 
 4. 1906: The Congress of the United States, which by the act of April 26, 1906, finally 
 directed the closing of the rolls March 4, 1907. 
 
 5. 1912: Hon. Samuel Adams, First Assistant Secretary of the Interior. (See report 
 of July 2, 1912.) 
 
 6. 1915: A subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the House of Eepre- 
 sentatives. (Copy of report attached.) . 
 
 7. 1915: Hon. Franklin K. Lane, Secretary of the Interior. (Copy of report dated 
 January 8, 1915, attached.) . 
 
 The United States Government is bound by solemn agreement to sell the residue ot 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw tribal property and distribute the proceeds among the en- 
 rolled members of the tribes. Fulfillment of this obligation has been and is being 
 prevented by the representatives of the alleged Mississippi Choctaws and by the pro- 
 ponents of legislation intended to be of assistance to the alleged Mississippi Choctaws. 
 
 It has been repeatedly shown that the Mississippi Choctaws have no legal, equita- 
 ble or moral right to share in the property of the Choctaw Nation. 
 
 A considerable amount of tribal property has been sold and the money is now on 
 deposit There have been partial crop failures m Oklahoma for the past four years-- 
 in some sections the failure was almost complete. There are many Choctaws and 
 Chickasaws who have been, and are now, in destitute circumstances and are m du-e 
 n^d oTthe money that belongs to them. The United States Government should at 
 once pav them this money in compliance with the terms of the agreement of 1902 
 
 In vfew ofThes^circumstances we respectfully solicit your assistance m preventing 
 the re^rning of the rolls of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations and m securing the 
 enactment of a law authorizing a per capita payment. 
 
 Yours, respectfully, p j_ Hurley, 
 
 National Attorney Choctaw Nation. 
 
698 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Report of the Sechetaet of the Interior on the Harrison Bill (H. R. 12o»d). 
 
 The Secretary of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, January 8, 1915, 
 
 My Dear Mr. Stephens: I have the honor to refer herein to a communication of 
 August 12, 1914, fi-om Hon. C. D. Carter, then actiQg chairman of the Committee on 
 Indian Affairs of the House of Representatives, with which was inclosed a copy of 
 H. R. 12586, entitled "k bill to reopen the rolls of the Choctaw-Chickasaw Tnbe and 
 to provide for the awarding of the rights secured to certain persons by the fourteenth 
 axticle of the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek, of date September 27, 1830. He also 
 referred to H. R. 4536 and requested that I consider the two bills together and make a 
 Teport thereon. 
 
 Upon examination of H. R. 4536, 1 find that said bill is identical with H. R. 19213, 
 introduced by Mr. Harrison of Mississippi in the Sixty-second Congress, second session, 
 upon which last-mentioned bill the department submitted to your committee a report 
 ■dated July 2, 1912. H. R. 12586, introduced in the present Congress by Mr. Harrison, 
 is a similar bill to the above-mentioned bills, except that in said H. R. 12586 an addi- 
 tional paragraph is included in section 2 to provide for the enrollment of all persons 
 who were identified as Mississippi Choctaws by the Dawes Commission in its report of 
 March 10, 1899, commonly known as the McKennon roll, and of all persons identified 
 as Mississippi Choctaws by the Dawes Commission from March 10, 1899, to March 4, 
 1907, whose identification was approved by the Secretary of the Interior but whose 
 names did not appear on the final citizenship rolls of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations. • _ . 
 
 The claims of Mississippi Choctaw Indians to recognition as citizens of the Choctaw 
 Nation of Oklahoma and to share in the property of said nation are based upon article 
 14 of the treaty of September 27, 1830. (7 Stat. L., 335.) Pursuant to the terms of 
 the treaty, a lai^e number of Choctaws were transferred from Mississippi to the country 
 west, later known as Indian Territory. These Choctaws who so removed and their 
 descendants now constitute the main body of what is known as the Choctaw Nation. 
 There were, however, a considerable number of Choctaws who remained behind in 
 Mississippi, some of them under the provisions of article 14 above mentioned. 
 
 Said article 14 provided that the person who claimed thereunder should not lose the 
 privilege of a Choctaw citizen, but if they ever removed were not to be entitled to any 
 part of the Choctaw annuity. The Indians who remained behind under the provisions 
 of said article 14 received either land in Mississippi or scrip, which gave the applicants 
 the right to enter public lands in certain Southern States. A part of said scrip, how- 
 ever, was later commuted by a money payment. Some of the fourteenth-article 
 claimants later made their way west and joined the main body of the tribe in the 
 Indian Territory. The Choctaw Council by various acts recognized the right of said 
 absentee Mississippi Choctaws to remove to the nation, and actually invited them to 
 -do so. 
 
 Under the provisions of the Atoka agreement with the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes 
 contained in the act of Congress of June 28, 1898 (30 Stat. L., 495), the supplemental 
 agreement contained in the act of July 1, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641), and later acts of Con- 
 gress for the purpose of carrying out the provisions of said agreements, the claims of 
 individual Mississippi Choctaw Indians to be identified and to be enrolled as entitled 
 to share in the property of the Choctaw Nation were fully considered by the Commission 
 to the Five Oivihzed Tribes and by the department after full hearing, at which the 
 claimants had ample opportunity to present all the evidence which they could procure 
 in support of their claims. Very few claimants were able to prove descent from an 
 ancestor who received or applied for benefits under the provisions of article 14 of the 
 treaty of 1830. 
 
 The history of the Dawes Commission enrollment work relative to Mississippi Choc 
 taw claimants is very fully set out in a communication of April 14, 1914, from Wil- 
 liam 0. Beall, at one time secretary of the commission to the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 A copy thereof is inclosed for your mformation. 
 
 For your further information as to the history of the Mississippi Choctaw claiins and 
 of the department action in the preparation of the final rolls there is inclosed a copy of 
 department letter of July 2, 1912, to the chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs 
 •of the House of Representatives. 
 
 Judge William H. H. Clayton in his decision in the case of Jack Amos v. The Choctaw 
 Nation, a copy of which may be found in the appendix of the annual report of the com- 
 mission to the Five Civilized Tribes for the fiscal year ended June 30, 1901, said that 
 Tio treaty or acts of the Choctaw Council or of any officer of the Choctaw Council since 
 the treaty of 1830 could be cited, or at least he had not found them, whereby any right 
 or privilege had been conferred, granted, or recognized in or to a Mississippi Choctaw 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 599 
 
 so long aa he remained away from Ma people, and that no right was recognized or con- 
 ferred upon such absent Indian except upon the condition that he should remove to 
 the nation, and the right was not to be consummated or enjoyed until actual removal. 
 
 Mississippi Choctaw Indians who, while the opportunity was theirs under the privi- 
 leges accorded them, refused to emigrate with the tribe to the new country west, and 
 who never shared in the burdens and hardships of the pioneer life incident to the 
 establishment of the new tribal government west of the Mississippi, have at this late 
 date (now that the tribal property of the Choctaw Nation made valuable by the emi- 
 grants ia being divided per capita among the enrolled recognized citizens of the nation) 
 no equitable right to share in said property. 
 
 With respect to the persons who were identified by the Dawes Commission as Mis- 
 sissippi Choctaws under the provisions of the act of Congress of June 28, 1898 (30 Stat. 
 L., 495), but who failed to remove and make settlement in the Choctaw-Chickasaw 
 country, as required by the act of Congress of July 1, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641, sees. 41, 42, 
 43, and 44), it may be said that, irrespective of their unfortunate condition of poverty 
 and ignorance, there is no ground, legal or equitable, lor holdiag the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Nations responsible for the failure of said identified persons to comply with 
 the law as to removal and settlement. No obligation rested upon the United States to 
 provide means for the removal of such Indians. 
 
 Referring to the class of claimants whose names were contained in an identification 
 roll submitted by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes on March 10, 1899, but 
 never approved by the Secretary of the Interior, your attention is invited to the fact 
 that the commission soon recognized the inaccuracy and incompleteness of that roll 
 and requested the department to disregard it and to return the same to the commission. 
 In order that there might be no doubt as to the standing of said roll, it was disapproved 
 by the department in March 1, 1907. The larger part of the persons whose names were 
 contained on that disapproved roll were afterwards placed on the approved identifica- 
 tion rolls and those who complied with the law as to removal and settlement were 
 enrolled on the final rolls of Mississippi Choctaw Indians. 
 
 In the investigation and examination of Mississippi Choctaw claims made in 1900 
 and the years following by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes every effort 
 that was possible to be made was made by said commission to reach all persons who 
 had any equitable claim to recognition as Mississippi Choctaws, and especially to find 
 those who were full-blood Choctaw Indians. 
 
 H. R. 4536 and 12586 in effect provide, so far as the Mississippi Choctaw claimants 
 are concerned, a general reopening of the rolls of the Choctaw Nation, necessitating a 
 review of all the cases which had been adversely decided by the United States courts, 
 the Department of the Interior, and the Choctaw and Chickasaw Citizenship Court, as 
 well as the consideration of claims not heretofore presented or considered, and empower 
 the Secretary of the Interior to determine the rights of the claimants upon such evi- 
 dence as may be produced by the applicants, without regard to any adverse judgment or 
 decision heretofore rendered by any court or commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 or the Department of the Interior, and without regard to any condition or disability 
 heretofore inposed by any act of Congress. 
 
 The records of the department show the Mississippi Choctaw claimants have been to 
 an unusual extent the victims of numerous extortionate contracts, and the corre- 
 spondence in many cases indicates that contracts were obtained through misrepresenta- 
 tions as to the facts, and in some cases that such contracts were obtained from claimants 
 who believed that the persons obtaining the contracts were Government agents. Your 
 attention is invited to the report of Inspector McLaughlin, of this department, which 
 report appears in print in the Congressional Record of July 10, 1914, commencmg on 
 
 ^^eferring to section 9 of said bills, I am of the opinion that, in view of the large 
 amount of tribal property yet to be disposed of and of other matters affecting the tribes, 
 it would be advisable to abolish the tribal organization of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations at the present time. . . . . , , , 
 
 In view of the facts as presented to me, I am of the opinion that no legislation should 
 be enacted for the reopening of the rolls of the Choctaw Nation for the benefit of the 
 Mississippi Choctaw claimants. 
 
 Very truly, yours, Franklin K. Lane. 
 
 Hon. John H. Stephens, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives. 
 
600 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 report on h. r. 12586. 
 
 January 2, 1915. 
 
 Hon. John H. Stephens, , ~ 
 
 Chairman Home Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 
 Sir: Youx subcommittee appointed to investigate and report on H. R. 12586 begs 
 leave to submit the following observations: 
 
 A careful and painstaking investigation of all treaties, laws, and other records 
 bearing on this claim, including hearings lasting from April 1, 1914, until August 27, 
 1914, was gone into by your committee. 
 
 H. R. 12586 directs: 
 
 1. The Secretary of the Interior to enroll certain Mississippi (Aoctaws upon the rolls 
 of the Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma with a full participation in^ their tribal estate. 
 
 2. To reopen the Choctaw rolls for the adjudication of 20,000 or more alleged claim- 
 There are some Choctaws still remaining in Mississippi who have persistently refused 
 
 and successfully resisted all efforts of the Federal Government and the Choctaw Nation 
 to have them move west and affiliate with the tribe. 
 
 The testimony before the subcommittee discloses many thousands of persons of 
 doubtful descent, African and other, living in Mississippi and surrounding States, 
 who have attempted to assert claims as Choctaw Indians. 
 
 Such Indians of real Choctaw blood as still reside in Mississippi appear to take 
 little interest in the claims asserted by their alleged attorneys. On the other hand, 
 those claiming remote Indian blood and of doubtful descent have manifested much 
 interest in being enrolled and sharing in a division of the Choctaw funds in Oklahoma. 
 
 The contention of these latter seems to have been inspired and augmented by cer- 
 tain attorneys who have sent agents among these people advising them that they 
 were Indians and taking contracts for their enrollment for a contingent fee of from 30 
 to 40 per cent of recovery, and in many instances a small cash retainer in addition. 
 
 According to statements and admissions of these attorneys and their agents, two 
 firms alone, those of Cantwell & Crew,s, of St. Louis, Mo., and BalUnger & Lee, of Wash- 
 ington City, D. C, and Ardmore, Okla., hold contracts with 15,596 individuals, carry- 
 ing provisions for fees aggregating §10,882,815. 
 
 The testimony further shows that a syndicate for the purpose of securing the enroll- 
 ment of Missis.slppi Choctaws and a participation in the tribal estate of the western 
 Choctaws has been formed under the name "the Texas-Oklahoma Investment Co.," 
 capitalized at $100,000, $25,000 of which has been paid in and used. The directors 
 of this corporation are S. L. Hurlbut, of El Campo., Tex.; H. Maeterson and W. A. 
 Smith, of Houston, Tex.; and T. B. Crews and H. J. Cantwell, of St. Louis, Mo. 
 
 This claim of the Mississippi Choctaw attorneys for em'ollment of their clients 
 and participation in the Choctaw Nation's estate is by no means a new contention. 
 The claim was, under direction of law, fully adjudicated by the Commission to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes (House Doc. 274, 55th Cong., 24 sess.) and afterwards by the 
 Federal court, to which appeal was taken (Jack Amos et al. v. The Choctaw Nation, 
 Decisions of United States courts in Indian Territory, 465), both decisions being 
 adverse to the Mississippi Choctaw contention for enrollment. 
 
 In rejecting the claim of nonresident Mississippi Choctaws the Commission to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes said in part: 
 
 "This historical review of the acquisition of this territory by the Choctaw Nation 
 and its subsequent legal relartions to it makes it clear in the opinion of this commission 
 that the Mississippi Choctaws are not under their treaties entitled to all rights of 
 Choctaw citizenship except an interest in the Choctaw annuities and still continue 
 their residence and citizenship in Mississippi." (House Doc. 274, 55th Cong., 2d 
 sess.) 
 
 In affirming the decision the United States District Court for the Central District 
 of Indian Territory closed its decision with the following paragraph: 
 
 "To permit men with, perchance, but a strain of Choctaw blood in their veins, who, 
 65 years ago, broke away from their kindred and their nation, and during that time, 
 or the most of it, have been exercising the rights of citizenship and doing homage to 
 the sovereignty of another nation, and have become strangers to the people, to reach 
 forth their hands from their distant and alien homes and lay hold on a part of the 
 public domain, the common property of the people, and appropriate to their own use, 
 would be unjust and inequitable. It is, therefore, the opinion of the court that the 
 absent Mississippi Choctaws are not entitled to be enrolled as citizens of the Choctaw 
 Nation. The action of the Dawes Commission is therefore affirmed and a decree will 
 be entered for the Choctaw Nation." (Jack Amos et al. v. The Choctaw Nation 
 Decisions of United States courts in Indian Territory, 465.) 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 601 
 
 An appeal was taken from these decisions by the attorneys for the Mississippi 
 Choctaws to the Supreme Court of the United States and the Jack Amos case was dis- 
 missed upon motion of the attorneys for the Mississippi Choctaws (190 U. S., 873). 
 
 Several years subsequent to the date of these decisions excluding the Mississippi 
 Choctaws from enrollment this matter was again tqken up and readjusted by the 
 legally constituted authorities of the Federal Government and the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Nations in Oklahoma, by which agreement the Mississippi Choctaws were 
 given additional time for identification and establishment of bona fide residence in 
 the Choctaw Nation in Indian Territory. (Supplemental agreement, "An act to 
 ratify and affirm the agreement with the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes of Indians, 
 etc.," approved July 1, 1902.) 
 
 The Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma has dealt justly and liberally with the Mississippi 
 Choctaws, always granting them full citizenship in their nation, with all emoluments 
 thereto, whenever they would agree to affiliate with the tribe, and the Choctaw Nation 
 in Oklahoma is under no legal, equitable, or moral obligation to enroll the Mississippi 
 Choctaws as citizens of the tribe m the "West at this time. 
 
 By the agreements negotiated between the Federal Government and the Choctaw 
 Nation, all native western Choctaws were required to be on the reservation by June 
 28, 1898, or stand debarred from enrollment and participation in the tribal estate for- 
 ever thereafter, and this rule has been strictly adhered to. 
 
 The time for establishment of residence on the reservation was extended to the 
 Mississippi Choctaw claimants imtil July 1, 1903, giving the Mississippi Choctaws 
 five years to move on the reservation after the time for establishment of such resi- 
 dence had been closed to the native Choctaws. 
 
 After 11 years were consumed by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes in 
 making up the rolls of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations such rolls were affirmatively 
 closed by action of Congress on March 4, 1907. 
 
 The rolls of the Choctaw Nation were held open to the Mississippi Choctaws from 
 1830 -until March 4, 1907, gi^dng the Mississippi Choctaws 77 years in which to com- 
 plete enrollment with full benefits of citizenship. 
 
 The Federal Government as such is neither legally nor equitably obligated to 
 enroll Mississippi Choctaws with the Choctaws west, and is under only such moral 
 obligation to the Mississippi Chocatws as is due to dependent North American Indians 
 who were originally occupants and owners of the soil and who have been deprived 
 of their patrimony by white settlers. 
 
 The passage of H. R. 12586 would completely upset and undo 11 years of careful, 
 painstaking work of the Interior Department in settling the affairs of the Five Civilized 
 Tribes, turn the wheels of progress backwards for more than 20 years, and, as has 
 been said by President Taft, "open up a Pandora's box of troubles, which the life 
 of the present generation might not see closed." 
 
 The passage of H. R. 12586 would doubtless result in stupendous claims of millions 
 of dollars against the Federal Government on the part of the Oklahoma Choctaws 
 because of a division of their funds among persons whom the Federal commissions 
 and Federal courts have decided were not entitled thereto. 
 
 Its passage would lend encouragement to grafting attorneys with contracts for 
 enormous attorneys' fees, running into millions of dollars, and hold out mducement 
 for procuring additional contracts from spurious claimarits. 
 
 Your subcommittee therefore recommends that the Harrison bill (H. K. lJ&«b) be 
 not favorably reported by the House Committee on Indian Aftau-s. 
 
 Respectfully submitted. ^_ ^ ^^^^^^^ Chairman. 
 
 J. D. Post. 
 RoBT. P. Hill. 
 P. P. Campbell. 
 
 (The clerk was directed to summon Senators Williams and Varda- 
 man.) 
 
 THE SIOUX TREATY. 
 
 The Chaikmax The next item for consideration is the Sioux 
 treaty item. You will find it (on page 30 of the comparison, hnes 15, 
 16 and 17, as follows: 
 
 For support and maintenance of day and industrial schools among the Sioux Indians, 
 including the erections and repairs of school buildings, 1200,000, 
 
602 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Is that a sectarian school item ? 
 
 Senator Kobinson. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Chairman, some gentlemen appeared before me 
 the other day and talked to me about this matter thnt na'* just been 
 brought up — the Sioux treaty, and they said to me that they would 
 like to have a statement made in their behaK and I informed them 
 that we were so limited in time that we could not give opportunities 
 to be heard on this matter generally, but if they would have some one 
 present who would address the committee for 10 minutes I thought 
 the committee would give them 10 minutes. I ask that at any rate. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are they here? 
 
 Senator Page. Yes. 
 
 STATEMENT OF S. M. BROSIUS, OF THE INDIAN EIGHTS 
 ASSOCIATION. 
 
 Mr. Brosius. Mr. Chairman, you very kindly asked me the other 
 day if I would not prepare a brief on this matter. 
 
 The Chairman. I asked. that both sides to this controversy submit 
 their views in writing for the benefit of the committee. 
 
 Mr. Brosius. In some phases of it I agree with the view you ex- 
 
 Eressed when the matter was up, I think, on the 28th of January; I 
 ave a brief here that I do not pretend to submit on behalf of anyone, 
 unless it should be the Indian Eights Association, and on behalf of 
 the Indians who have appealed to us to present their case some time 
 ago, in the matter of the use of Indian funds for private schools. 
 
 Washington, D. C, February 1, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. C. 
 
 Dear Sir: In the matter of the use of Indian funds for private 
 schools: We agree that funds held by the Government as guardian 
 for individual Indians may be expended upon request of such indi- 
 vidual Indians for educational or other purposes in the discretion of 
 the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 It is submitted that in view of the wise public policy of maintaining 
 a complete separation of church and state the tribal Indian funds 
 provided for the maintenance of schools among the Indians should 
 be expended for schools conducted by the Government. 
 
 It seems most desirable, therefore, from every viewpoint that the 
 funds held in trust by the Government for the benefit of Indian 
 tribes should be divided pro rata and the per capita shares credited to 
 the individual members and paid to them in cash or expended for 
 their benefit in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 After careful consideration by Congress, on June 10, 1896 (29 
 Stat., 345), an act was approved which provides: 
 
 * * * and it is hereby declared to be the settled policy of the Government to 
 hereafter make no appropriation whatever for education in any sectarian school. 
 
 The United States Supreme Court in 1908, in the case of Quick Bear 
 V. Leupp (210 U. S., 79), held that money belonging to individual 
 Indians might be expended by the Government for the beneficiaries 
 in schools of theu' choice. 
 
 In lef erring to the Umitation of Congress above cited the court 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 603 
 
 _ This limitation, if it can be given effect as such, maniiestly applies to the use of pub- 
 lic moneys gratuitously appropriated for such purpose, and not to moneys belonging 
 to the Indians themselves. * * * The declaration of the settled policy of the Gov- 
 ernment is found only in the act of 1896 and 1897, and was entirely carried out by the 
 deductions provided for. Since 1899 public moneys are appropriated under the 
 heading " Support of schools," " For the support of Indian and industrial schools, and 
 for other educational purposes," without sayijig anything about sectarian schools. 
 This was not needed, as the effect of the legislation was to make subsequent appropria- 
 tions for education mean that sectarian schools were excluded in shariag m them, 
 unless otherwise provided. 
 
 In view of the prohibition of Congiess and the decree of the court 
 above cited against the use of pubhc funds for sectarian schools, it is 
 pertinent and important to determine if the funds which are sought 
 to be appropriated by the pending Indian appropiiation act (H. R. 
 20150) are pubUc funds of the United States, available for education, 
 and what portion of them, if anjr, are bona fide due the Indians. 
 
 We insert in the record at this point a letter from the Assistant 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs, dated January 28, 1915, giving in 
 some detail the sources of the funds heretofore expended and now 
 proposed to be expended for support of sectarian schools among the 
 Pine Ridge Band of Sioux Indians, South Dakota. 
 
 Dbeaktmbnt or the Intbeiob, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 Washington, January 28, 1915. 
 Mr. S. M. Brosius, 
 
 Agent Indian Rights Association, Washington, D. C. 
 Dear Mr. Brosius: In response to your letter of January 26, 1915, regarding the 
 funds set aside for the Holy Rosary School, Pine Ridge Reservation, S. Dak., for the 
 current fiscal year, you are informed that the share individually of the Pine Ridge 
 Sioux in the interest on the $3,000,000 Sioux fund created by the act approved March 
 2, 1899 (25 Stat. L., 895), available for education during the current year, in addition 
 to the balance remaining from former years, is approximately $5.55. The interest 
 on the share of the Pine Ridge Sioux fund July 1, 1914, and January 1, 1915, available 
 for education, amounted to $17,884.64; which amount based on the number of Indians 
 entitled to share in the principal fund July 1, 1914, would give to each Indian $3.17 
 per capita. The accumulation of interest in Sioux fund, Pine Ridge education, July 
 1, 1914, in addition to the above, also available for education, amounted to $13,430.85, 
 or $2.38 per capita. It will, therefore, be seen that based on 1,008 petitioners the total 
 amount of interest available for the contract aggregated $5,594.40. In arriving at the 
 value of each share, in ascertaining the total amount that would be available for the 
 above school during the current year, all the Pine Ridge Sioux funds available for 
 education were taken into consideration, as follows: 
 
 Interest on Sioux fund, Pine Ridge (education) $31, 315. 49 
 
 Sec. 17, act Mar. 2, 1889 (25 Stat. L., 895). 
 
 Support of Sioux of different tribes, subsistence and civilization 200, 000. 00 
 
 Art. 5, act Feb. 28, 1877 (19 Stat. L., 254), and Indian act Aug. 1, 1914 
 (Public, No. 160). 
 
 Education Sioux Nation 200, 000. 00 
 
 Sec. 17, act Mar. 2, 1899 (25 Stat. L., 894), and Indian act Aug. 1, 1914 
 (Public, No. 160). 
 It was determined that the value of each share in all these funds amounted to 
 $33 53 and there being 1,008 petitioners the value of the shares of the petitioners 
 aggregated $33 798 24 However, the whole amount of the contract, namely, $24,300 
 WM for convenience in bookkeeping, set aside from "Interest on Sioux fund. Pine 
 Ridge education," it being immaterial whether the full amount was charged to this 
 fund or whether a portion of the amount was charged to each of the funds involved, 
 all of which have been regarded as available, as will be seen^by reference to a letter 
 dated March 19, 1913, from the Assistant Secretary of the Interior to the president 
 of the Indian Rights Association. 
 Hoping the foregoing information will serve your purpose. 
 
 Very truly, yours, -r. „ i,«- 
 
 ■' E. B. Meeitt, 
 
 Assistant Commissioner. 
 
604 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 It is disclosed by the assistant commissioner's letter that the 1,008 
 Indians, members of the Pine Ridge Band of Sioux, are entitled to a 
 per capita share of $3.17 annually from the amount due the tribe 
 from the interest available for education on the $3,000,000 Sioux 
 fund" created by the act approved March 2, 1889 (25 Stat., 895), 
 and that including balances on the fund a total of $5.55 per capita 
 is available from money belonging to the Indians. Hence the 1,008 
 petitioners wiU be entitled to $5,594.40, and this sum may be diverted 
 for the Holy Rosary or other school in the discretion of the Secretary 
 of the Interior, upon request of the Indian beneficiaries. 
 
 We further submit that the $200,000 reported by the assistant 
 commissioner's' letter as available for diversion for sectarian schools 
 under title of "Subsistence and civilization," stated to be derived 
 through article 5 of the act approved February 28, 1877 (19 Stat., 
 254), is no longer an obligation of the Government to these Indians 
 for educational purposes, and we believe this fund has not been 
 expended for education in other instances. The article reads as 
 follows : 
 
 Art. 5. In consideration of the foregoing cession of territory and rights, and upon 
 full compliance with each and every obligation assumed by the said Indians, the 
 United States does agree to provide all necessary aid to assist the said Indians in the 
 work of civilization; to furnish to them schools and instruction in mechanical and 
 agriculturalarts,asprovidedforby thetreatyof 1868. * * * 
 
 The treaty concluded with the Sioux Indians April 29, 1868 (15 
 Stat. 636), proclaimed Febiuaij;- 24, 1869, provides in article 7 as 
 follows : 
 
 Art. 7. In order to insure the civihzation of the Indians entering into this treaty, 
 the necessity of education is admitted, especially of such of them as are or may settle 
 on said agricultural reservations, and they therefore pledge themselves to compel their 
 children, male and female, between the ages of 6 and 16 years, to attend school; and 
 it is hereby made the duty of the agent for said Indians to see that this stipulation is 
 strictly complied with; and the United States agi-ees that for every 30 children between 
 said ages who can be induced or compelled to attend school, a house shall be provided 
 and a teacher competent to teach the elementary branches of an English education 
 shall be furnished, who will reside among said Indians and faithfully discharge his or 
 her dutues as a teacher. The provisions of this article to continue for not less than 
 20 years. 
 
 Section 17 of the act approved March 2, 1889 (supra), fulfiUs the 
 obligation of the Government to furnish facilities for education under 
 article 7 of the treaty of 1868 above cited. It provides: 
 
 Sec. 17. That it is hereby enacted that the seventh article of the said treaty of April 
 29, 1868, securing to said Indians the benefits of education, subject to such modifications 
 as Congress shall deem most effective to secure to said Indians equivalent benefits of 
 such education, shall continue in force for 20 years from and after the time this act 
 shall take effect * * *. 
 
 (This section also provides a fund of $3,000,000 as a permanent fund 
 due the Sioux Indians parties to the agreement, to bear interest at 
 5 per cent, one-half of the interest to be expended for "industrial and 
 other suitable education among the Indians"). 
 
 Section 28, of the act approved March 2, 1889, above quoted, was 
 declared by proclamation of the President of the United States, 
 February 10, 1890, "to be in fuU force and effect." (26 Stat., 1554, 
 preamble.) 
 
 Hence, it wlU be seen that the obligation of the Government to 
 provide educational advantages for these Indians under the treaty 
 of April 29, 1868, together with the agreements of February 28, 1877 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 605 
 
 and March 2, 1889, above mentioned, expired on February 10, 1910, 
 the latter date being the termination of the provision in section 17, of 
 the act of March 2, 1889, durmg which schools were agreed to be 
 continued. It can not, therefore, with good reason, be claimed that 
 since February 10, 1910, there is any treaty or agreement on the part 
 of the Government to provide the funds for schools, which were 
 expended as shown by the foregoing letter from the assistant com- 
 missioner, under supposed authority of article 5, act of February 28, 
 1877, $200,000 and under section 17, of the act of March 2, 1889, 
 $200,000. From this it appears that the total fund available for 
 support of sectarian schools under consideration in the assistant 
 commissioner's letter is the $31,315.49, derived from "Interest on 
 Sioux fund" of $3,000,000, belonging to the Indians, as per the agree- 
 ment of 1889. 
 
 From the showing made it is conslusive that since February 10, 
 1910, all appropriations for education of the Sioux Indians under 
 consideration, excepting the item of $31,315.49, have been taken from 
 the public funds of the United States and are not available under the 
 act of June 10, 1896 (supra), for support of sectarian schools. 
 
 Therefore we submit the only money available under the law for 
 diversion for sectarian schools for the current fiscal year is a total of 
 $31,315.49, of which $5,594.40 is the total of the per capita shares 
 due the 1,008 petitioners supporting sectarian schools, m contrast 
 with the sum of $24,300 contracted to be expended for such schools 
 during the current fiscal year. 
 
 Justice and equity demand that only the pro rata shares of funds 
 available may be contracted for, if at all, by petitioning members of 
 any tribe in a given i nstance, and this rule was promulgated by Presi- 
 dent Roosevelt, in a similar instance governing the question, in a 
 letter dated February 9, 1905, in which he said: 
 
 Care must be taken, of course, to see that any petition by the Indians is genuine, 
 and that the money appropriated for any given school represents only the pro rata 
 proportion to which the Indians making the petition are entitled. 
 
 The Sioux Indians have frequently protested against the diversion 
 of any of their funds for sectarian purposes, and various organizations 
 interested in the welfare of the Indians have urged that so long as the 
 funds due the Indians are held in the tribal foim the sectarian use of 
 such funds should not be permitted, since such use creates ill feeling 
 and discord among the Indians in addition to being in violation of the 
 well-settled principle of complete separation of church and state. 
 
 We file herewith (Exhibit A) petitions from Dana Long Wolf and 
 several hundred additional members of the Pine Ridge and Crow 
 Creek Bands of Sioux Indians protesting against the further use of any 
 portion of their tribal or treaty funds for sectarian schools. 
 
 Thfi petition of the Crow Creek Band is in form as follows: 
 
 Crow Ceeek Indian Reservation, S. Dak., 
 
 August 19, WIS. 
 
 Chaieman Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Smate, Washington, D. L. 
 The undeisigned members of the Sioux Nation or Tribe of Indians belonging to the 
 Crow Creek Reservation, S. Dak., respectfully protest a,gam.st the use of any money 
 belont^ng to our tribe of Indians for the support of sectarian schoo s, and request that 
 the cSnoress of the United States enact laws to prohibit such use of our tribal moneys. 
 We further request that all oiu: tribal funds shall be divided and the pro rata share due to 
 each member of our tribe shall be credited to him, and paid to such member or ex- 
 pended for his benefit upon his written request in the discretion of the Government. 
 
606 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 The Choctaw Indians, Oklahoma, by resolutions of the general 
 council of the tribe, have protested against the diversion of theu- 
 tribal funds for support of schools. 
 
 These and other Indians, of course, would have no objection what- 
 ever to any mdividual member of theu- tribes contributing to any 
 extent from his pro rata share of funds derived from a division of 
 the tribal moneys. 
 
 The funds appropriated for the Quapaws from year to year, from 
 which $972 are withdrawn for sectarian schools for the fiscal year 
 1915, are no doubt pubhc funds of the Government and fall within 
 the inhibition of the act approved June 10, 1896 (supra). 
 
 The primary consideration is the education of the Indian youth by 
 Government schools, according to the policy of our Government ex- 
 
 f)ressed by Congress, whereby the Indians of different tribes in dif- 
 erent parts of the country have the benefit of a uniform system of 
 education under the direction and inspection of agents of the Gov- 
 ernment. Everything should be done to strengthen and extend this 
 system of education. Nothing should be done to weaken or curtail 
 it. No exceptional provision should be made for Indian education 
 in private schools unless the Government school at a particular point 
 is admittedly inferior or inadequate, and in such a case the defect in 
 the Government system should be corrected as speedily as possible. 
 Under the declarations of policy made by Congress and amphfied 
 by the Supreme Court, there should be a gradual curtailment of the 
 practice of using the tribal funds of Indians for support of private 
 schools. As wards of the Government they are entitled to the 
 benefit of the governmental system of education, even though their 
 parents or other relatives or representatives may prefer private 
 school instruction for them. Equity to all concerned requires a 
 uniform, broad, just policy not marred by exception to the rule. 
 
 In the instant case, as in any similar case, the deduction of the pro 
 rata shares of the petitioning Indians reduces to that extent the 
 income from the tribal funds available for all the members of the 
 tribe. Each Indian is entitled to his own share, neither more nor 
 less. It is inevitable that either the petitioning Indians or the 
 other members of the tribe will suffer by receiving less than their 
 pro rata share of the income of the tribal funds. Apparently it would 
 be the Indians other than those petitioning for the diversion of a 
 portion of the income who would thereby be deprived of part of their 
 share of the income of the funds. 
 
 Hon. Francis E. Leupp, formerly Commissioner of Indian Affairs, 
 under whose administration an arrangement was made for permit- 
 ting the Indians to divert a portion of the income of tribal funds 
 to private schools, furnished an interesting illustration of the effect 
 of such diversion in a letter to the Churchman, dated April 13, 1906, 
 published April 21, 1906, in which he said: 
 
 Suppose that we have a reservation containing 5,000 Indians, to whom there is to 
 be paid in any fiscal year a tribal income of $50,000. This would entitle each indi- 
 vidual Indian to $10 as liis pro rata share. Suppose that 500 of these Indians petition 
 to have their shares drawn upon for the support of, say, 40 children at f 100 apiece 
 at a certain religious mission school. That costs $4,000 which, deducted from the 
 $5,000 due to the 500 petitioners, leaves a balance of $1,000, or $2 apiece to be paid 
 to the petitioners at the final payment period of the year. ' 
 
 The 4,500 Indians who do not petition for the diversion of their money to a mission 
 school are assumed, under the President's plan, to be in favor of Government schools 
 
INDIAK APPEOPRIATION BILL. 607 
 
 ^ *^« Croverament treaties with these Indians constitute a written demand of the 
 tribe for the maintenance of such schools on the reservation. Now, suppose the 
 (lovernment schools to cost $25,000 for the year's maintenance. Deduct this sum 
 from the $45,000 due to the 4,500 nonpetitioners, and we have a balance of $20,000 to 
 be distributed among the 4,500 at the rate of $4.44 apiece. 
 
 Of course, the difference between the $4.44 and the $2 ultimate dividends is largely 
 in favor of the nonpetitioners as contrasted with the petitioners. From this fact a 
 casual observer might jump to the conclusion that the shares of the 4,500 nonpetitioners 
 are not at all affected by the diversion of the $4,000 to the mission school . I insist that 
 Itis diversion does affect their shares; for, if there had been no diversion of $4,000 
 tiiere would have been $25,000 to distribute among the whole 5,000 Indians, and each 
 Indian would have received $5. Although the shares of the nonpetitioners«uffer to the 
 extent of only 54 cents, they do suffer by this sum. The insignificance of the amount 
 involved does not change the basic fact. ' 
 
 It is clear from the letter of the assistant oommissioner of January 
 28, 1915, heretofore cited, that the amount available per capita in the 
 case now under consideration, would be only $5.55 or for 1,008 peti- 
 tioners an aggregate amount of $5,594.40, if it were not for the two 
 appropriations of $200,000, which were mixed up with the interest on 
 Sioux fund. Pine Ridge education, so as to raise the value of each share 
 from $5.55 to $33.55, and the total from $5,594.40 to $33,798.24. If 
 only the first amount should be used, it is manifest that the contract 
 which calls for $24,300 could not be met. It is material that the^er 
 capita share should be determined by the actual fund available. It 
 is evident that if the $200,000 appropriated under the head education 
 Sioux nation and that clause undertaking to extend the treaty 
 which expired February 10, 1910, was out of the calculation the 
 amount required for the contract school could not be given. It is 
 especially evident that the appropriations are not interchangeable, 
 so that one for subsistence ana civilization can be used for education 
 or vice versa, and that such use by interpretation nullifies the effort 
 of Congress to preserve the distiaction between them. 
 
 It must be patent to all that the objections growing out of the con- 
 tinued use of tribal funds for support of private schools would be 
 silenced and altogether eliminated from public discussion by the 
 division of tribal funds into individual holdings, a plan which has 
 been recommended by practically all the philanthropic Indian organ- 
 izations. If the tribal funds were absolutely segregated to individuals 
 of the particular tribe there would be no objection to the use which 
 they might make of their share. Such disposition of the tribal funds 
 has been recommended by the annual conference of the Friends of the 
 Indians at Mohonk Lake, N. Y. In 1905 (indorsing the recommenda- 
 tions of President Roosevelt in his first annual message), and in 1909, 
 1910, 1911, 1912, and 1913, the board of Indian commissioaers urged 
 the pro rata division of tribal funds in its annual reports of 1907, page 
 16; 1908, page 21; 1909, page 19; 1910-11, page 6. The forty-first 
 annual report of the board (1909) seems especially appUcable in sup- 
 port of our view of the case. The report is in part as follows : 
 
 The United States Government holds, in trust funds, about $62,000,000, belonging 
 to tribes of Indians in their tribal capacity, and about $13,000,000 which belongs to 
 individual Indians. Everyone who is familiar with legislation and administration for 
 Indians knows that attempts are frequently made to chisel out from these tribal funds 
 large sums of money. Such attempts often seem to be made in the selfish interest of 
 lawyers and claim agents, who concern themselves with the matter because they hope 
 to get a large percentage of the money in commissions and fees if they succeed in 
 securing the legislation desired. Even where large sums from the tribal funds are 
 used for good purposes (as for the schoohng of children), we believe that the education 
 
608 INDLA.N APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 of Indians for citizenship would proceed more wisely if these funds were broken up 
 into individual holdings, and Indians who wished their share of the tribal money used 
 for the education of their children were, as individuals, to authorize the use, each of 
 his own money, for that purpose, instead of giving by a majority vote in a council 
 a gross sum from the fund which the Government holds in trust for the entire tribe. 
 The sense of individual responsibility, the experience which comes from husbanding 
 and managing one's own money, Indians can not acquire while their tribal funds are 
 managed for them in bulk. 
 
 We believe that civilization has upon the whole gained by the breaking up of the 
 great tribal reservations into individual holdings of land, where the Indian has been 
 properly protected in his rights and is made secure in the possession of a homestead. 
 We believe that the breaking up of tribal funds into individual shares, to be allotted 
 to each Indian by name, upon Qie books of the Indian Bureau, is the next important 
 economic step which should be taken in the management of Indian affairs. For the 
 last eight years we have steadily advocated legislation to bring this about. Objection 
 to this plan has sometimes beeti made on the plea that the separation of tribal funds into 
 individual accounts (an account to be kept under the name of every man, woman, 
 and child entitled to share in the fund) would be a very expensive matter in its 
 demand for clerical assistance and additional bookkeeping. This objection has never 
 seemed to us a weighty one. 
 
 The Society of American Indians in 1913 urged that tribal funds 
 be apportioned to each individual's particular account. The allot- 
 ment of tribal funds is urged by the General Council of the Chippewa 
 Tribes of Minnesota. It is stated for them in a recent report that 
 the legislative committee of the Chippewa General Council proposes 
 to urge upon Congress the desirability and need for: 
 
 The segregation of tribal funds so that an equal division shall be made of these per 
 capita, and placed to the credit of the individual members of the tribe in the Treasury 
 of the United States. 
 
 The Indian Rights Association for many years has urged the 
 breaking up of the communal interest in funds of the various Indian 
 tribes and that the pro rata shares should be credited to individual 
 members of the tribes by the Government and expended upon the 
 beneficiary's request in the wise discretion of the Secretary of the 
 Interior. 
 
 Most, if not all the associations interested in the uplift of the In- 
 dians have m-ged the breaking up of the tribal funds, believing that 
 no great advance in the life of the Indian can be hoped for until he 
 is clothed with individual responsibility. 
 
 We, therefore, submit and recommend: 
 
 First. That the Senate will not adopt the clause stricken out of the 
 pending Indian appropriation act (H. E. 20150) proposing to extend 
 for another year the agreement, approved March 2, 1889, directing 
 and governing the expenditure of the $200,000 for "support and 
 maintenance of day and industrial schools among the Sioux Indians." 
 The item stricken out by the House of Representatives reads as fol- 
 lows: 
 
 * * * to be expended under the agreement with said Indians in section seven- 
 teen of the act of March second, eighteen hundred and eighty-nine, which agreement 
 is hereby extended to and including June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and imxteen. 
 
 As has herein been shown there is no obligation of the Govern- 
 ment to continue this appropriation under the agreement sought to 
 be extended; the proposed extension is unilateral, is without consid- 
 eration, and is clearly a gratuity from the pubhc funds of the United 
 States. The expenditure of this class of funds for sectarian educa- 
 tion since February 10, 1910, is clearly prohibited by law and public 
 poUcy. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 609 
 
 Second. That further use of funds due to the Indian tribes held by 
 the Government in tribal or communal form should be prohibited. 
 
 Third. That provision of law shall be secured authorizii^ the divi- 
 sion and allotment of the tribal funds held in trust for Indians by 
 the Government with the provision that the individual shares may 
 be paid to the beneficiaries or expended for their benefit in the discre- 
 tion of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 S. M. Brosius, 
 Agent, Indian Bights Association 
 
 Exhibit A. 
 
 (No. 2, of two petitions.) 
 
 Crow Creek Indian Reservation, S. Dak., 
 
 August 19, 1913. 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington D. C. 
 The undersigned naembers of the Sioux Nation or Tribe of Indians belonging to the 
 Crow Creek Reservation, S. Dak., respectfully protest against the use of any money 
 belonging to our tribe of Indians for the support of sectarian schools, and request that 
 the Congress of the United States enact laws to prohibit such use of our tribal moneys. 
 We further request that all our tribal funds shall be divided and the pro rata share 
 due to each member of our tribe shall be credited to him, and paid to such member or 
 expended for his benefit upon his written request, in the discretion of the Government. 
 
 Thomas W. Tuttle 
 (And 83 others). 
 
 The foregoing protest was explained to the signers hereof by me, and I afterwards 
 witnessed their signatures hereto. 
 
 H. Burt. 
 
 Exhibit A. 
 
 (No. 1, two petitions.) 
 
 Pine Ridge, S. Dak., June 4, 1913. 
 The honorable Secretary of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 
 Honorable Sir: We, the undersigned members of the Sioux Tribe of Indians, 
 having rights on the Pine Ridge Reservation, S. Dak., respectfully petition the hon- 
 orable Secretary of the Interior to secure the final cessation of all contracts for the 
 support of sectarian schools or institutions involving the use of any portion of our 
 tribal or treaty funds. , . , . r^ i i 
 
 Tona lei ihukuya cajeunyankapi kin lena, Dakota oyate kin heuncapi, na Uglala 
 Oyanke, Pine Ridge Reservation, S. Dak., kin el woiyowaja ounpapi kin lecel hon- 
 orable Secretary of the Interior wowapi on yuonihanyan iceunkiyapi uncinpi. 
 
 Wocekiye Woonspe tipi tona (contract schools) eya cajeyatapi km hena oyasm 
 letanhan tokatakiya, Dakota tawomnaye,_ nains Wolakota on womnaye kiciyankapi 
 kin etanlian inonpani awicayusotapi kte sni. 
 
 Hecel iceunkiyapi. ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ 
 
 (And 151 others). 
 
 828.33— VOL 1 — 15 39 
 
610 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Pine Ribgb Agency, S. Dak., 
 
 June 4, 191S. 
 
 The Honorable Secretary of Interior, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 Honorable Sir: We, the undersigned members of the Sioux Tribe of Indians, 
 having rights on the Pine Ridge Reservation, S. Dak., respectfully petition the honor- 
 able Secretary of the Interior to secure the final cessation of all contracts for support 
 of sectarian schools or institutions involving the use of any portion of our tribal or 
 treaty funds. . 
 
 Tona lei ihukuya cajeunyankapi kin, lena Lakota oyate kin heuncapi, na Oglala 
 Oyanke, Pine Ridge Reservation, S. D., kin el woiyowajaounpapi kin, lecel honorable 
 Secretary of Interior wowapi on yuonihanyan iceunkiyapi uncinpi: 
 
 Wocekiye Woonspe tipi tona (contract schools) eya cajeyatapi kin hena oyasin 
 letanhan tokatakiya Lakota Tawomnaye, nains Wolakota on womnaye kiciyankapi 
 kin etanhan inopani awicayusotapi kte sni. 
 Hecel iceunkiyapi. 
 
 Abraham Calico 
 (And 36 others). 
 
 Pine Ridge, S. Dak., 
 
 June 4, 1913. 
 The Honorable Secretary of Interior, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 Honorable Sir: We, the undersigned members of the Sioux Tribe of Indians, 
 having rights on the Pine Ridge Reservation, S. Dak., respectfully petition the hon- 
 orable Secretary of the Interior, to secure the final cessation of all contracts for the 
 support of sectarian schools or institutions involving the use of any portion of our tribal 
 or treaty funds. 
 
 Tona lei ihukuya cajeunyankapi kin, lena Lakota oyate kin heuncapi, na Oglala 
 Oyanke, Pine Ridge Reservation, S. D., kin el woiyowaja ounpai)i kin, lecel honor- 
 able Secretary of the Interior wowapi on yuonihanyan iceunkiyapi uncinpi: 
 
 Wocekiye Woonspe tipi tona (contract schools) eya cajeyatapi kin hena oyasin 
 letanhan tokatakiya Lakota Tawomnaye, nains Wolakota on womnaye kiciyankapi 
 kin etanhan inonpani awicayusotapi kte sni. 
 Hecel iceunkiyapi. 
 
 Chief Knife 
 (And 52 others). 
 wounded knee district. 
 
 Pine Ridge, S. Dak., 
 
 June 4, 191S. 
 The honorable Secretary of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 Honorable Sir: We, the undersigned members of the Sioux Tribe of Indians, 
 having rights on the Pine Ridge Reservation, S. Dak., respectfully petition the honor- 
 able Secretary of the Interior to secure the final cessation of all contracts for the sup- 
 port of sectarian schools or institutions involving the use of any portion of our treaty 
 or tribal funds. 
 
 Tona lei ihukuya cajeunyankapi kin lenq, Lakota oyate kin heuncapi, na Oglala 
 Oyanke, Pine Ridge Reservation, S. Dak., kin el woiyowaja ounpapi kin lecel honor- 
 able Secretary of the Interior wowapi on yuonihanyan iceunkiyapi uncinpi: 
 
 Wocekiye Woonspe tipi tona (Contract School) eya cajeyatapi kin hena oyasin 
 letanhan tokatakiya, Lakota tawomnaye, nains Wolakota on womnaye kiciyankapi 
 kin etanhan inonpani awicayusotapi kte sni. 
 Hecel iceunkiyapi. 
 
 Robert American Horse 
 
 (and 66 others.) 
 
 The Chaieman. If you admit and agree that funds that are owned 
 by the Indians may be spent to maintain such schools as the Indians 
 wish, does not that remove aU objection? 
 
 Mr. Brosixjs. I think it does not remove it, because we claim that 
 the Government is spending money for those schools that do not 
 belong to the Indians. 
 
 The Chairman. That is the question, is it ? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 611 
 
 Mr. Brosius. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you wish these in the record? 
 
 Mr. Brosius. I would like them. Here 1 file certain petitions from 
 the Indians, one from the Crow Creek Band of Sioux, and one of several 
 hundred form the Pine Ridge Band, and 1 want to say in addition 
 to these that 1 filed with the House Committee on Indian Affairs 
 some few months ago a petition from the Rosebud Band of Sioux 
 Indians containing several hundred names. 
 
 The Chairman. That will go in the record in the absence of objec- 
 tion. I have here a brief prepared by Mr. Charles S. Lusk, secretary 
 of the Bureau of Cathohc Indian Missions. I should Uke to hear it 
 read. Mr. Lusk, will you read this brief, if you desire to ? 
 
 STATEMENT OF ME. CHARLES S. LUSK, SECRETARY TO THE 
 BUREAU OF CATHOLIC INDIAN MISSIONS. 
 
 Mr. Lusk. I want to say before I read this brief that so far as the 
 three funds of the Sioux are concerned — that is, the Sioux civilization 
 and support, the Sioux education, and the interest on the $13,000,000 
 trust fund that is available for educational purposes — that the Su- 
 preme Court of the United States has decided that they are tribal- 
 moneys, and that being such, notwithstanding the declaration of the 
 settled poHcy in the appropriation act of 1896, they are available for 
 the education of Sioux Indian children in mission schools when the 
 Indians themselves by petition so ask. 
 
 The Chairman. What decision of the Supreme Court of the United 
 States do you refer to ? 
 
 Mr. Lusk. To the Quick Bear case. In reply to a statement filed 
 by Mr. Brosius on January 15 to this committee and in support of 
 the request that the clause stricken from the $200,000 appropriation 
 for support of Sioux industrial and day schools be restored by the 
 comnuttee, I beg to submit on behalf of the Bureau of Catholic 
 Indian Missions the following brief: 
 
 In the treaty of April 29, 1868, the Government of the United States, as a part of 
 the consideration for the cession and surrender of a large portion of their lands, agreed 
 to confer upon the Sioux Indians the benefits of education. This duty was not 
 limited as to time, but was to continue "not less than 20 years." Section 7 of 
 the treaty provides "in order to insure the civilization of the Indians entering into 
 this treaty the necessity of education is admitted. * * * the provisions of this 
 treaty to continue for not less than m years." 
 
 At the end of 20 years, in section 17 of the act of March 2, 1889, Congress again 
 admitted and recognized its obligation "of securing the benefits of education" in 
 accordance with "the seventh article of the said treaty of 1868;" and provided for 
 continuing those benefits for 20 years longer. This act did not limit the time to 
 only m years On the contrary, by failing to make such limitation, and by 
 specifically referring to article 7 of the treaty of 1868 it, by implication, recognized 
 the continuing duty of the Government to "secure the benefits of education to the 
 Sioux Indians so long as the need for "the benefits of education" should exist. 
 
 In harmony with this view, at the end of the 20-year period provided m the 
 act of March 2, 1889, Congress, for five consecutive years, beginning with 1910, has 
 continued and extended this treaty. ,- ..i, ^ , ♦ j n 
 
 The question now presented is exactly the same question that confronted Congress 
 in 1889 in 1910, and each succeeding year down to the present time, namely whether 
 the educational needs of these Indians are still such as morally and equitably to hold 
 the Government to its solemn obligation in section 7 of the treaty of 1868 to secure 
 the benefits of education" to them. It has been settled that Congress has the power 
 to abroeate a treaty with the Indians. The power to abrogate, of course, includes 
 the power to extend a treaty once terminated, and Congress has five times extended 
 
612 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 the treaty of 1889. In considering this question it must be kept in mind that the 
 obligation of the Government to provide schools for these Indians, so long as the need 
 for them exists, is a treaty obligation, and no matter vhat phrasing ot Avords is used 
 in the appropriations made by Congress to provide schools for these Indians, those 
 appropriations are, in fact, incident to the performance of that treaty obligation to 
 refuse now to extend section 7 of the treaty of 1868, while at the same time admitting 
 the need of schools for these Indians, is ^n effect to disregard the solemn treaty obli- 
 gation without consulting the Indians, an obligation which will not be fulhlled by the 
 Government until there is no longer need to provide support for their schools. 
 Congress has no moral right to discontinue this treaty appropriation, m any event, 
 without first consulting the Indians. 
 
 In providing schools out of the appropriations made by Congress in pursuance of 
 this treaty, the Government could have established Government schools, or, if public 
 or private schools had been available, could have arranged for instruction m them. 
 What it has done, in fact, for the last 10 years has been to permit the Indians having 
 children of school age the privilege of having applied their pro rata share of these 
 annual appropriations and their other tribal funds to pay for the support and educa- 
 tion of their children in religious schools. Support and education in these rehgioua 
 schools have cost $108 per capita per annum, as compared with a cost of more than 
 $200 per capita per annum in the Government schools among the Sioux, making a 
 saving of nearly $100 per capita per annum. In using this treaty appropriation and 
 the other tribal funds available for the education and support of the Sioux, the Gov- 
 ernment has recognized the natural right of Indian parents to select the school for 
 their children, and has thereby saved a sum which can conservatively be estimated 
 at $50,000 a year. The right of the Government so to use this treaty appropriation 
 was fully established by the decision in the case of Eueben Quick Bear v. Francis E. 
 Leupp in the Sjipreme Court of the United States. (210 U. S., 50.) 
 
 The effect of the objection to Congress further extending article 7 of the treaty of 
 1868, made in the statement of S. M. Brosius, agent of the Indian Rights Association, is: 
 First. To ask Congress to disregard a solemn treaty obligation. 
 Second. To deprive the individual Indiansof the Sioux Nation of the right to con- 
 tinue to have their children taught in schools of their own choice, a right enjoyed 
 by them for 10 years. 
 
 Third. To throw temporarily out of school at least 200 pupils for whom there are no 
 present facilities. 
 
 Fourth. To increase the cost of education for these 200 children about $100 per 
 capita, entailing a wholly useless additional expense of at least $20,000 a year. 
 
 The purpose of Mr. Brosius, on behalf of the Indian Rights Association, in filing 
 objection to the continuation of this treaty provision, is clearly to prevent the educa- 
 tion of Indian children in the three Catholic schools which have been conducted for 
 25 years among the Sioux Indians; if he succeeds in his purpose the doors of these 
 schools must be closed against at least 200 Indian pupils. There are not sufficient 
 Government school facilities in South Dakota, even when these three Catholic schools 
 are used at full capacity, for the Indian population of school age in that State. If these 
 200 children are turned away from the Catholic schools, where will they go? There is 
 not an available Government Indian school on the reservation, nor in the State of South 
 Dakota nor in the United States to take them. Even if there were such schools avail- 
 able, the cost to the Government would be at least $20,000 annually more than it has 
 heretofore paid to educate them in schools where their parents wish them to be, and 
 where they are now contented and doing good work. There being no present school 
 faciUties for them, the inevitable result would be, for at least one year, to keep these i. 
 children out of school, and to oblige the Government in the near future to con- 
 struct and equip school buildings to accommodate them, which would involve an 
 expenditure of not less than $100,000. 
 
 Mr. Brosius says: "The primary consideration is the education of Indian youth 
 in Government schools according to the policy of our Government expressed by Con- 
 gress, whereby the Indians of different tribes in different parts of the country have the 
 benefit of a uniform system of education under the direction and inspection of agents 
 of the Government." 
 
 In fact, the Government of the United States has caused the Government Indian 
 schools in the various States to follow as nearly as possible the courses of study in the 
 said several States, modified by certain requirements for industrial education not found 
 in State public schools. This system leads to as great variety in the policy of education 
 in the Indian schools as there are different plans in the different States where Indians 
 reside. 
 
 In truth, the Government, from the time of the"Peace policy" in 1869 to the present 
 day, without variation, has encouraged mission schools among Indians. Congress 
 has authorized the granting of'patents to churches which have occupied land for the 
 
IKDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 613 
 
 purpose of educating and Christianizing Indians; and it is the practice of the Indian 
 Bureau to grant the use of land to churches for mission and school purposes on Indian 
 reservations. The Indian OfHce always takes into account any mission school where 
 It has under consideration the providing of additional school facitilios for the Indians 
 on any particular reservation. AN here Government and mission school facitities 
 combined are ample for the children of school age, the Indian Office does not erect 
 additional school buildings. 
 
 Mj. Brosius says further: "The diversion of the pro rata shares of the petitioning 
 Indians reduces to that extent the treaty funds available for all the members of the 
 tribe and produces inequality and inequity." This statement is untrue. Not one 
 dollar of the trust and treaty funds that have been used for the education of the chil- 
 dren of the petitioning Indians has been taken from the pro rata shares of those Indians 
 not signing the petitions. This was conclusively shown by Mr. E. W. Gans, special 
 United States attorney in the Quick Bear case, in his argument before the Supreme 
 Court. He said : 
 
 "There are 4,986 Indians on the rolls of the Rosebud Reservation and the amount 
 of tribal income applicable to education, in the discretion of the commissioner, is 
 ?250,047.90, or a per capita of ?50.15. 
 
 "The 212 petitioners represent 669 shares, or $33,550.35, and of this they ask that 
 S27,000 be used for the education of their children in St. Francis Mission School. The 
 following table will represent the pro rata shares in these tribal funds and the per cap- 
 ita share : 
 
 "4,986 Indians, 3250,047.90 tribal funds, .S50.I5 per capita. 
 
 "669 shares, §33,550.35 tribal funds, $50.15 per capita. 
 
 "4,317 petitions (nonpetltions).' 
 
 "4,986 Indians, §250,047.90 tribal funds, $50.15 per capita. 
 
 "The cost of the Government school for the fiscal year was about $76,830. Since 
 the shares of the petitioning Indians amount to §33,550.35 and the sum asked for the 
 school is only §27,000 out. of this share, and the petitions were genuinely signed, the 
 terms of the Executive order of President Roosevelt of February 3, 1905, e. g., 'to see 
 that any petition by the Indians is genuine, and that the money appropriated for 
 any given school represents only the pro rata proportion to which the Ind'ans making 
 the petition are entitled' have been strictly carried out." 
 
 The rule followed by the Indian Office is the one laid down by the President in hia 
 letter of December 23, 1905, to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, to wit: 
 
 "Each Indian in a tribe is to be credited with his pro rata shares of the funds which 
 you will apply for him to the Government school where that is the school used, or to 
 the church school where that is the school used, instead of segregating any portion 
 of the funds for the support of the Government school and pro rating the balance." 
 
 Mr. Brosius says likewise: "Moreover, the practice of diverting a portion of treaty 
 funds from governmental to private schools excites partisan feelings among the 
 Indians." It is true that a comparatively few of the Sioux Indians who did not join 
 in the petitions have protested against the use of the treaty funds in this way, but their 
 action has been undoubtedly due to influence brought to bear upon them by the 
 Indian Rights Association and those in sympathy with its hostility to the Catholic 
 schools. Even if some of the Indians, owing to these influences, wish to deprive 
 their fellow of the right to have their children educated in schools of their choice, 
 as charged by Mr. Brosius, this fact would not justify Congress in denying to others 
 of the tribe the right to have their own money used for the education of their own 
 children in the excellent schools they wish used for the purpose. _ 
 
 Mr Brosius further states that the governmental schools offer facilities for all children 
 of the Sioux Indians. This statement is also untrue, as is shown by the following 
 extract from the last annual report of the Commissioner of Indian Affau-s: 
 
 Crow Creek Reservation : 
 
 School population , 
 
 Government school accommodations — J-U ' 
 
 Children attending nonreservation schools 49 ^^^ 
 
 Deficiency in Government's school facilities 80 
 
 Pine Ridge Reservation: , „2n 
 
 School population -^' " " 
 
 Government school accommodations oln 
 
 Children attending nonreservation schools '^iv 
 
 Deficiency in Government's school facilities 378 
 
614 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. -: 
 
 Rosebud Reservation: „ 
 
 School population - „^ 1, dUb 
 
 Government school accomodations ''^ 
 
 Children attending nonreservation schools l-O'^ 
 
 Deficiency in Government's school facilities 372 
 
 Total deficiency in Government's school facilities on three reservations. . 830 
 
 Mr. Brosius very disingenuously quotes only a few words from the opinion in the 
 Quick Bear case. The court did say: "The effect of this legislation was to make 
 subsequent appropriations for education mean that sectarian schools were excluded 
 from sharing m them unless other^vise provided " ; and Mr. Brosius evidently wishes 
 the committee to believe the court held no funds, whether public or tribal, could be 
 used for the education of Indians in religious schools unless otherwise provided. A 
 leading of the entire paragraph will show that this is simply not true. This paragraph 
 is as follows: 
 
 "Since 1899 public moneys are appropriated under the heading, 'Sujaport of Schools, 
 for the Support of Indian and Industrial Schools and for other Educational Purposes,' 
 without saying anything about sectarian schools. The effect of this legislation was to 
 make subsequent appropriations for education mean that sectarian schools were 
 excluded from sharing in them unless otherwise provided." 
 
 It is perfectly clear that the Supreme Court referred only to "public moneys," and 
 not to tribal funds. This is stated totidem verbis in the following further quotation 
 from the same decision: 
 
 "This limitation" (that is, the declaration of the "settled policy' of the Govern- 
 ment), "if it can be given effect as such, manifestly applies to the use of public moneys 
 gratuitously appropriated for such purposes and not to moneys belonging to the Indians 
 themselves." 
 
 In other words, Mr. Brosius quoted one half oi a paragraph in the court's opinion, so 
 as to ascribe to it a meaning plainly inconsistent with the sense of the whole paragraph 
 and flatly contradicted by the further language of the Court. 
 
 In view of the Government's plain and solemn treaty obligation to educate these 
 Indians; (2) of the manifest economy resulting from their education in mission schools; 
 (3) of the fact that there are not now, and will not be for some time, sufficient Govern- 
 ment school accommodations for at least 200 of the children attending such schools, it 
 is respectfully but very earnestly urged that it will be not only proper and wise, but 
 simple justice to restore to the Indian bill the clause providing for the expenditure of 
 the $200,000 appropriation for the support and maintenance of the industrial and day 
 schools among the Sioux Indians under the agreement of 1889 and for the extension of 
 said agreement until June 30, 1916. 
 
 In conclusion, it may be appropriately pointed out that the provision in question 
 has received the sanction of Congress since 1910, has been recommended by the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and was incorporated in 
 the pending Indian bill by the Committee on Indian Affairs of the House of Repre- 
 sentatives. 
 
 Senator Townsend. If there were sufRcient school facilities fur- 
 nished by the Government, would you be willing that the children 
 should attend those schools instead of the sectarian schools ? 
 
 Mr. LusK. We prefer that they should not. We prefer that they 
 should attend the schools that they prefer. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Would you oppose any proposition which gave 
 the Indian children full opportunity to attend Governnient schools ? 
 
 Mr. LtisK. Oh, no; because we believe the parent is the one to 
 determine that question. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you insist that no moneys belonging to the 
 Government have been used for sectarian school purposes ? 
 
 Mr. LusK. I do — not a dollar. 
 
 Senator Townsend. And that in the tribal funds those children 
 that do not belong to the faith that supports the sectarian schools, 
 that none of those children have been embarrassed by the use of their 
 money for sectarian purposes ? 
 
 Mr. Ltjsk. I do. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 615 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you think Mr. Brosius is incorrect about it ? 
 
 Mr. LusK. In my opinion he is. 
 
 Senator Townsend. All you are asking now is, then, that the Indian 
 shall have a right to elect what shall be done with his individual 
 money ? 
 
 Mr. LusK. Yes, sir. You see, Senator, these are tribal funds, but 
 every Sioux Indian has an undivided interest in those funds and he, 
 through those petitions, simply asks that his share of these funds 
 shall be devoted to the education of his children. 
 
 The Chairman. There has been so much misunderstanding as to 
 the effect and scope of the decision of the Supreme Court of the 
 United States in the so-called Quick Bear case that I wish to draw 
 your especial attention to that decision. I will not read it to you in 
 extenso, but it is very evident to my mind that some persons — not 
 members of this committee — either have not read or have misread 
 the Quick Bear case. I shall, therefore, ask unanimous consent that I 
 include in the record at this point the decision in the Quick Bear case. 
 I will not put into the record the briefs of the attorneys, but only the 
 decision, which is a unanimous decision handed down by Chief Justice 
 Fuller, who spoke for the court. I think all of our members are law- 
 yers except three; those who are not lawyers are very successful busi- 
 ness men, and if we will all read this decision when this item comes 
 before us finally for our determination, we shall have much more 
 accurate information than we probably have been proceeding under 
 heretofore. I ask that the decision in the Quick Bear case go into 
 the record at this point. 
 
 October term, 1907. Reuben Quick Bear v. Leupp, Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 (210 U. S., p. 77 etseq.) 
 
 Mr. Cbief Justice Fuller, after making the foregoing statement, delivered the opinion 
 of the court: 
 
 We concur in the decree of the Court of Appeals of the District and the reasoning 
 by which its conclusion is supported, as set forth in the opinion of Wright, J., speak- 
 ing for the court. (Washington Law. Rep., v. 35, p. 766.) 
 
 The validity of the contract for $27,000 is attacked on the ground that all contracts 
 for sectarian education among the Indians are forbidden by certain provisos con- 
 tained in the Indian Appropriation Acts of 1895, 1896, 1897, 1898, and 1899. But if 
 these provisos relate only to the appropriations made by the Government out of the 
 public moneys of the United States raised by taxation from persons of all creeds and 
 faiths, or none at all, and appropriated gratuitously for the purpose of education 
 among the Indians and not to "tribal funds," which belong to the Indians themselves, 
 then the contract must be sustained. The difference between one class of appro- 
 priations and the other has long been recognized in the annual appropriation acts. 
 The gratuitous appropriation of public moneys for the purpose of Indian education 
 has always been made under the heading "Support of schools," while the appropria- 
 tion of the "treaty fund" has always been under the heading "Fulfilling treaty stipu- 
 lations and support of Indian tribes," and that from the "trust fund" is not in the 
 Indian appropriation acts at all. One class of appropriations relates to public moneys 
 belonging to the Government; the other to moneys which belong to the Indians and 
 which is administered for them by the Government. 
 
 From the history of appropriations of public moneys for education ot Indians, set 
 forth in the brief of counsel for appellees and again at length in the answer, it appears 
 that before 1895, the Government for a number of years had made contracts for sec- 
 tarian schools for the education of the Indians, and the money due on these contracts 
 was paid in the discretion of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, from the "tribal 
 funds" and from the grptuitous public appropriations. But m 1894 opposition devel- 
 "oned against appropriating public moneys for sectarian education. Accordingly, in 
 the Indian appropriation act of 1894, under the heading of "Support of schools," 
 the Secretary of the Interior was directed to investigate the propriety of discontinuing 
 
616 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 contract sctiools and to make such recommendations as he might deem proper. The 
 Secretary suggested a gradua] reduction in the public appropriations on account of 
 the money which had been invested in these schools, with the approbation of the 
 Government, He said: "It would be scarcely just to abolish them entirely— to 
 abandon instantly a policy so long recognized," and suggested that they should be 
 decreosed at the r.ite of not less than 20 per cent a year. Thus in a few years they 
 would cease to exist, and during this time the bureau would be gradually prepared to 
 do without them, while they m'ight gather strength to continue without Government 
 aid. 
 
 Accordingly Congress introduced in the appropriation act of 1895 a limitation on the 
 use of public moneys in sectarian schools. This act appropriated under the heading 
 "Support of schools" "for the support of Indian and industrial schools and for other 
 purposes * * * $1,164,350. * * * provided, that the Secretary of the 
 Interior shall make contracts, but only with the present contract schools for the educa- 
 tion of Indian pupils during the fiscal year ending June 30, 1896, to an extent not 
 exceeding 80 per cent of the amount so used in the fiscal year 1895, and the Govern- 
 ment shall as early as practicable make provision for the education of the Indians in 
 Government schools. ' ' 
 
 This limitation of 80 per cent was to be expended for contract schools, which were 
 those that up to that time had educated Indians through the use of public moneys, 
 and had not relation and did not refer to "tribal funds." 
 
 In the appropriation act of 1896, under the same heading, "Support of schools," the 
 appropriation of public money of $1,235,000 was limited by a proviso that contracts 
 should only be made at places where nonsectarian schools can not be provided for 
 Indian children to an amount not exceeding 50 per cent of the amount so used in the 
 fiscal year 1895, and immediately following the appropriation of public money appears 
 the expression, "and it is hereby declared to be the settled policy of the Government 
 to hereafter make no appropriation whatever for education in any sectarian school." 
 This limitation, if it can be given effect as such, manifestly applies to the use of 
 public moneys gratuitously appropriated for such purpose, and not to moneys belong- 
 ing to the Indians themselves. In the appropriation act of 1897 the same declaration 
 of policy occurs as a'limitation on the appropriation of public moneys for the support 
 of schools, and the amount applicable to contract schools was limited to 40 per cent of 
 the amount used in 1895. In the act of 1898 the amount applicable to contract schools 
 was limited to 30 per cent, and in the act of 1899 the amount so applicable was limited 
 to 15 per cent, these words being added: "This being the final appropriation for sec- 
 tarian schools." The declaration of the settled policy of the Government is found only 
 in the acts of 1896 and 1897, and was entirely carried out by the reductions provided for. 
 
 Since 1899 public moneys are appropriated under the heading "Support of schools" 
 "for the support of Indian and industrial schools and for other educational purposes," 
 without saying anything about sectarian schools. This was not needed, as the effect 
 of the legislation was to make subsequent appropriations for education mean that 
 sectarian schools were excluded in sharing in them, unless otherwise provided. 
 
 As has been shown, in 1868 the United States made a treaty with the Sioux Indians, 
 under which the Indians made a large cession of land and other rights. In consid- 
 eration of this the United States agreed that for every 30 children a house should 
 be provided and a teacher competent to teach the elementary branches of our English 
 education should be furnished for 20 years. In 1877, in consideration of furtier 
 land cessions, the United States agreed to furnish all necessary aid to assist the 
 Indians in the work of civilization and furnish them schools and instruction in 
 mechanical and agricultural arts, as provided by the treaty of 1868. In 1889 Congress 
 extended the obligation of the treaty for 20 years, subject to such modifications as 
 Congress should deem most effective, to secure the Indians equivalent benefits of 
 such education. Thereafter, in every annual Indian appropriation act, there was 
 an appropriation to carry out the terms of this treaty, under the heading "Fulfilling 
 Treaty Stipulations with and Support of Indian Tribes." 
 
 These appropriations rested on different grounds from the gratuitous appropriations 
 of public moneys under the heading "Support of schools." The two subjects were 
 separately treated in each act, and, naturally, as they are essentially different in 
 character. One is the gratuitous appropriation of public moneys for the purpose of 
 Indian education, but the "treaty fund" is not public money in this sense. It is 
 the Indian's money, or at least is dealt with by the Govermuont as if it belonged 
 to them, as morally it does. It differs from the "trust fund" in this: The "trust 
 fund " has been set aside for the Indians and the income expended for their benefit, 
 which expenditure required no annual appropriation. The whole amount due the 
 Indians for certain land cessions was appropriated in one lump sum by the act of 
 1889 (25 Stat. 888, chap. 405). This "trust fund'" is held for the Indians and not 
 distributed per capita, being held as property in common. The money is distributed 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 617 
 
 in accordance with the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, but really belongs 
 to the Indians. 
 
 The President declared it to be the moral right of the Indians to have this "trust 
 fund" applied to the education of the Indians in the schools of their choice, and the 
 same view was entertained by the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia and the 
 Court of Appeals of the District. But the "treaty fund" has exactly the same char- 
 acteristics. They are. moneys belonging really to the Indians. They are the price 
 of land ceded by the Indians to the Government. The only difference is that in the 
 "treaty fund" the debt to the Indians created and secured by the treaty is paid by 
 annual appropriations. They are not gratuitous appropriations of public moneys, 
 but the payment, as we repeat, of a treaty debt in installments. "VVe perceive no 
 justification for applying the proviso or declaration of policy to the payment of treaty 
 obligations, the two things being distinct and different in nature and having no rela- 
 tion to each other, except that both are technically appropriations. 
 
 Some reference is made to the Constitution, in respect to this contract with the 
 Bureau of Catholic Indian Missions. It is not contended that it is unconstitutional 
 and it could not be. (Eoberts v. Bradfield, 12 App. D.C.,475; Bradfield v. Eoberts, 
 175 U. S., 291.) But it is contended that the spu-it of the Constitution requires that 
 the declaration of policy that the Government "shall make no appropriation whatever 
 for education in any sectarian schools " should be treated as applicable, on the ground 
 that the actions of the United States were to always be undenominational, and that, 
 therefore, the Government can never act in a sectarian capacity, either in the use of 
 ita own funds or in that of the funds of others, in respect of which it is a trustee; 
 hence, that even the Sioux trust fund can not be applied for education in Catholic 
 schools, even though the owners of the fund so desne it. But we can not concede 
 the proposition that Indians can not be allowed to use their own money to educate 
 their children in the schools of their own choice because the Government is neces- 
 sarily undenominational, as it can not make any law respecting an establishment of 
 religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The Court of Appeals well said: 
 
 "The 'treaty' and 'trust' moneys are the only moneys that the Indians can lay 
 claim to as a matter of right ; the only sums on which they are entitled to rely as theii's 
 for education; and while these moneys are not delivered to them in hand, yet the 
 money must not only be provided, but be expended for their benefit and in part for 
 their education ; it seems inconceivable that Congress should have intended to prohibit 
 them from receiving religious education at their own cost if they so desired it; such 
 an intent would be one 'to prohibit the free exercise of religion ' amongst the Indians, 
 and such would be the effect of the construction for which the complainants contend. " 
 
 The cestuis que trust can not be deprived of their rights by the trustee in the exer- 
 cise of the power implied. 
 
 Decree affirmed. 
 
 Father Ketcham, who is also a member of the Board of Indian 
 Commissioners, has a brief he would like to read on this question. 
 
 STATEMENT OF EEV. WM. H. KETCHAM, BOARD OF mDIAN" 
 COMMISSIOITEIIS, WASHIlirGTOIir, D. C. 
 
 Mr. Ketcham. ilr. Chairman and gentlemen, I should like to call 
 the attention of the committee to the history of the education of 
 Indian children in mission schools. I believe it has a direct bearing 
 on the questions at issue. 
 
 The Catholic Church has carried on mission woik among the 
 Indians of the United States since the early part of the sixteenth 
 
 The vast treasure and the number of consecrated lives she has 
 devoted to this work can not be estimated, but it is of record that 
 about 100 of her missionaries suffered martyrdom at the hands of 
 Indians, who in some instances were abetted m these deeds ot blood 
 
 by white men. ^ • i i, j^^. 
 
 It is evident that the Indians can never be of any material beneht_ 
 to the church. The money and men she devotes to them are to her 
 at all times a material loss. The same money and men devoted to 
 
618 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BIl 1.. 
 
 missioij. -work among the white people of this country would yield 
 fruit abundantly, even in a material way, would increase her power 
 and widen the sphere of her influence. . 
 
 If she were actuated by selfish and materialistic motives she would 
 withdraw forthwith from what to all evidence of the senses appears 
 to be a profitless effort, particularly since she realizes how unwel- 
 come her presence among the Indians is, not indeed to the Indians, 
 but to certain groups of white people, some of which have never 
 established or supported an Indian school, have never sent a mis- 
 sionary to the Indians, have never done any constructive work among 
 them, all of which, imbued with sentiments strangely un-American 
 in character, apparently would rejoice to see Catholic Indians deprived 
 of the consolations of the religion of their choice and their children 
 reared perforce in some other faith, thereby manifesting an attitude 
 which discloses the state of mind and the spirit indicated by the 
 prophetic words of our Lord to his disciples: "The hour cometh, that 
 ■whosoever killeth you, will think that he doth a service to God." 
 
 I submit that such an attitude should not be encouraged by 
 Senators of the United States. 
 
 If altruism be folly, and if there be no spiritual side to missionary 
 enterprise, then, indeed, is the church playing the fool's part in her 
 efforts for the Indians; but aU Catholics and many non-CathoHcs 
 do not beheve this. There are many who yet believe in things 
 spiritual, in the salvation of the soul, in victories and achievements 
 which the corporeal senses can not discern. This is why the Church 
 despite much opposition and many obstacles still perseveres in the 
 Indian work. 
 
 The CathoUc Church entered upon Indian educational work in an 
 extensive way at the cordial and earnest invitation of the Govern- 
 ment, which made the promise that if she would supply the buildings 
 and the teachers the Government would provide the funds required 
 for the tuition and maintenance of the children. This invitation and 
 promise was made to all Christian denominations. 
 
 The Catholic Church accepted the invitation, believed in the 
 promise, and entered in good faith upon the work. She expended 
 large sums in erecting buildings and her volunteer workers enlisted 
 freely and generously. For years the good work went on and the 
 Church's only fault was that she met with lull success in it. Then the 
 hue and cry was raised and Congress enacted a law, fuUy effective in 
 1900, cutting off the Government subsidies. At that time it was 
 stated by the Indian Office that the Government was prepared to 
 provide educational facdities for every Indian child, and yet if this 
 statement were made to-day, 14 years later, the most recent Indian 
 Office report will show that with the accommodations now provided 
 in public schools and with all the mission schools not less than 15,000 
 Indian children are even at this time without school facilities. 
 
 Probably because of the drastic nature of the legislation which left 
 the mission schools without funds. Commissioner of Indian Affairs 
 Browning offered to purchase all the mission school plants, incorpo- 
 rate the teachers in to the civil service, and allow them to remain 
 until they should be automatically replaced by others through the 
 operation of the civil-service regulations. 
 
 While the Church bent her energies to provide support for her 
 schools from the voluntary offerings of her people, the burden was 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 619 
 
 too great and the schools too numerous for her to maintain them all. 
 In response to the commissioner's invitation she turned over a num- 
 ber of schools to the Government and in only three of these schools 
 which are still in operation has she any representation to-day. 
 
 Later, Commissioner of Indian Affairs Jones made the same offer, 
 to wit, to purchase the schools and retain the teachers. The offer was 
 declined in the main, but since that time several Catliolic mission 
 schools have become Government schools. Both offers were no 
 doubt made in good faith but what the result would have been had 
 the Church ceded all her schools to the Government under the terms 
 offered is patent from the "antigarb" order of Commissioner of 
 Indian Affairs Valentine in 1912. It would seem that the process of 
 eUminating the sisters through the operation of the civil-service 
 rules was too slow to meet the wishes of certain persons. It would 
 be interesting to know just what forces were brought into play and 
 what methods were employed to bring about the promulgation of the 
 antigarb order, which, however, eventually was so modified that the 
 civil-service status of the sisters already in the service was not 
 impaired. 
 
 I notice from the hearings that schools of this character have been 
 discussed recently in this committee and that no one, not even the 
 representative of the Indian Office, appears to have given an adequate 
 explanation of the subject. 
 
 I call attention to the fact that in building schools to be sustained 
 by Government subsidies and in transferring schools to the Govern- 
 ment the Catholic Church was not the prime mover. In both in- 
 stances it was the Government who announced the plan and made the 
 invitation. The Church could not but presume she was doing what was 
 right and legitimate in acceding to the Government's invitation. It 
 has been made to appear that the church has sought these conditions 
 and intrigued to secure them. The fact is quite the contrary. She 
 has acted with sincerity and relied on the good faith of the Govern- 
 ment; she has, however, endeavored to protect her Indian schools 
 and secure that fairness of treatment which she had a right to expect. 
 
 These remarks wiU apply with only slight alteration to another class 
 of schools — the tribal contract schools. 
 
 As foi' these schools, the initiative came not from the church but 
 from the Indians themselves, the Osages being the first to insist that 
 the Government use their funds for the support of their mission 
 schools. The church upheld and advocated this policy, which was 
 accepted by the Indian Office, and later, when it was questioned, wa,s 
 sanctioned by the courts, the Supreme Court having rendered its deci- 
 sion May 18, 1908. rr. i i 
 
 During some years the cry has been heard from all sides: Teach the 
 Indian to become self-sustaining; to manage his own affairs; to earn 
 his bread; to support his institutions. It is in harmony with this "con- 
 tention that Indian tribal moneys were allowed for the support and 
 education of Indian children in mission schools m instances where the 
 Indians sharing in such funds desired it. . , . , 
 
 The Catholic Church at this time supports outright, without 
 assistance from any quarter whatsoever, 38 boarding and several 
 day schools, representing an annual outlay of not less than $200,000. 
 In addition to these .3S; schools she conducts 11 boarding schools 
 which are suoported entirelv by the Indians out of their tribal 
 
620 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 funds. We contend this is in accord with the present generally 
 api)roved pohcy of teaching the Indians to support themselves and 
 their institutions. 
 
 No one objects to the pohcy of the Government which, without 
 consulting the Indians, uses their tribal funds for the maintenance 
 of Government schools, but now an effort is made to raise a question 
 as to the use of tribal funds for the support and education of Indian 
 children in mission schools regardless of the fact that the Indians 
 sharing in these funds wish and even demand it. There are those 
 who would prevent an Indian from having his own _ money used 
 for the education of his child in the school of his choice. If these 
 people were in the place of the Indians they might feel differently. 
 
 You have here present a delegation of Chippewa Indians from 
 Minnesota, several of whom are not Catholics, who are asking that 
 Chippewa tribal funds be used for the education of the Chippewa 
 children who attend the Catholic mission school at Red Lake. 
 Months ago another delegation from this same tribe made this same 
 request. 
 
 Senators, wiU you change the policy now in operation? WiU 
 you depart in this matter from the course continuously pursued 
 by Congress up to this day? Must our entire work again be revolu- 
 tionized? How can you expect us to carry on successful work if 
 the status of our Indian schools is to be changed during every session 
 of Congress? As an American citizen, I will say with chagrin and 
 regret, if our work must be destroyed by ever-changing policies, if 
 we must be driven out of Indian educational work, it would be more 
 frank on the part of Congress to enact a law to that effect in unmis- 
 takable terms, so that the public might be properly enlightened and 
 the Catholic Church might know just what course to pursue. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you want this exhibit to go in as a part of your 
 remarks ? 
 
 Father Ketcham. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any other person present who wishes to be 
 heard on this subject? 
 
 Senator Gronna. I should like to ask Father Ketcham one ques- 
 tion. Is this mission work being done by other denominations be- 
 sides the Catholic ? 
 
 Father Ketcham. Yes, Senator; there is a good deal of mission 
 work being done. 
 
 Senator Gronna. This legislation, of course, would apply to all 
 denominations; it would not apply only to the Catholic? 
 
 Father Ketcham. It would apply to all except for the fact where 
 these funds are in question, these particular funds, only Catholic 
 schools would get any benefit. The Sioux and the Sioux Tribe were 
 the only ones there that have schools supported out of the Indian 
 funds. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Any other sect, if they put themselves in the 
 same position and the Indians wanted schools of that sect, they would 
 have the same right, would they not? 
 
 Father Ketcham. They were invited by the Government at one 
 time, the other sects, to receive this same assistance. In other parts 
 of the country they have received assistance from tribal funds. 
 In this particular case they did not accept the invitation. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 621 
 
 The Chairman. I want to ask you a question, and will also ask 
 the attention of Mr. Brosius to tins also. In the Indian appropria- 
 tion bill of last year, under the Sioux treaty item, was the following: 
 
 For support and maintenance of day and industrial schools among the Sioux In- 
 dians, including the erection and repair of school buildings, $200,000, to be expended 
 under the agreement of said Indians in section seventeen of the act of March second, 
 eighteen hundred and eighty-nine, which agreement is hereby extended to and 
 including June thirteen, nineteen hundred and fifteen. 
 
 Now the House committee reported the bill this year with that 
 language save and except the word "nineteen fifteen" reads "nine- 
 teen sixteen," and the House struck it out. 
 
 Mr. LusK. It went out on a point of order. 
 
 The Chairman. It is your contention that the language should be 
 restored, and you, Mr. Brosius, are resisting that? Is that the 
 contention ? 
 
 Mr. Brosius. That is the idea. May I say a word on the state- 
 ment read by Mr. Lusk? The contention in this case, the Quick 
 Bear case, in that case they were referring to the then conditions. 
 The agreement of March 2, 1889, was an agreement or a treaty item 
 with the Indians at that time, but that has expired, and the same 
 conditions do not exist at this time that existed in 1910 after the 
 Supreme Court decision. 
 
 Mr. Lusk. As I understand, Mr. Brosius, you contend also that 
 the support and civilization fund is a public fund and not applicable 
 for education in mission schools ? 
 
 Mr. Brosius. I did this morning, yes. 
 
 Mr. Lusk. The Supreme Court of the United States takes a differ- 
 ent view of it. 
 
 The Chairman. The Supreme Court of the United States holds in 
 the Quick Bear case, and I read it with great care twice, that where 
 the Indians make it manifest to the department that they wish their 
 treaty funds, or the trust funds which the Government holds for 
 them spent in a particular way in a particular school, that there is 
 no unconstitutional act in spending it in that way. That settles it 
 so far as the law is concerned. As a matter of poUcy it is a matter 
 for Congress to say. 
 
 Mr. Lusk. And I want to say that the Supreme Court had before 
 it the three Sioux funds that are now mentioned by Mr. Brosius. 
 
 The Chairman. If you will pardon me I want to read the closing 
 paragraph of that decision. 
 
 Senator Gronna. May I ask a question for information ? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Gronna. In the case stated by the Chair, would not the 
 Secretary of the Interior and the Indian Department be authorized 
 to comply with the wishes of these Indians without this legislation — 
 without the provision being reinserted ? 
 
 The Chairman. I could not state offhand without some investi- 
 gation. Senator. I would be glad to answer you if I could. 
 
 I am going to read just a short excerpt, beginning on page 81, 
 from the case entitled "Quick Bear v. Leupp," m which the court 
 says, inter rel, as follows: 
 
 We perceive no justification for applying the proviso or declaration of policy to the 
 navment of treaty obligations, the two things being distinct and different m nature 
 and having no relation to each other, except that both are technically appropriations. 
 
622 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Some reference is made to the Constitution, in respect to this contract with the 
 Bureau of Catholic Indian Missions. It is not contended that it is unconstitutional, 
 and it could not be. (Roberts v. Bradfield, 12 App. D. C, 475; Bradaeld v. Roberta, 
 175 U. S., 291.) But it is contended that the spirit of the Constitution requires that 
 the declaration of policy that the Government "shall make no appropriation whatever 
 for education in any sectarian schools" should be treated as applicable, on the ground ' 
 that the actions of the United States were to always be undenominational, and that, 
 therefore, the Government can never act in a sectarian capacity, either m the use of 
 its own funds or in that of the funds of others in respect of which it is a trustee; hence 
 that even the Sioux trust fund can not be applied for education in Catholic schools, 
 even though the owners of the fund so desire it. But we can not concede the propo- 
 sition that Indians can not be allowed to use their own money to educate their children 
 in the schools of their own choice because the Government is necessarily undenomina- 
 tional, as it can not make any law respecting an establishment of religion or pro- 
 hibiting the free exercise thereof . The Court of Appeals well said: 
 
 "The 'treaty' and 'trust' moneys are the only moneys that the Indians can lay 
 claim to as a matter of right, the only sums on which they are entitled to rely as theirs 
 for education, and while these moneys are not delivered to them in hand, yet the 
 money must not only be provided, but be expended, for their benefit and in part 
 for their education. It seems inconceivable that Congress should have intended to 
 prohibit them from receiving religious education at their own cost if they so desired 
 it. Such an intent would be one 'to prohibit the free exercise of religion' amongst 
 the Indians, and such would be the effect of the construction for which the com- 
 plainants contend." 
 
 The cestuis que tfust can not be deprived of their rights by the trustee in the 
 exercise of the power implied. 
 
 Decree affirmed. 
 
 Senator Owen. The real distinction between these contending 
 forces, I think is this: Mr. Brosius is insisting that this is a gratuity 
 because the treaty terminated after the end of 20 years and being 
 a gratuity that it is not apphcable. The other parties contend that 
 in reahty the treaty itself has been liberalized by acts of Congress 
 and is really an extension of the treaty and is a part, therefore, of the 
 treaty fund and should be dealt with as such and that is a point of 
 view that is so nicely balanced that one might almost take either 
 side with perfect propriety. My sympathy is with those who have 
 gone upon the frontier and have established these schools, and under 
 all the circumstances that would induce me to support this pro- 
 vision because I think it is economy in instructing these Indians. 
 I think that the services of the church in that connection are really 
 a gratuity out of the treasury of the church itself. In so far as they 
 do contribute in establishing these frontier schools, there is no 
 material value in it to them, and I do not feel inclined to draw a 
 harsh or a sharp line against them in applying the sectarian rules. 
 I am very strongly opposed to using the general funds of either the 
 State or of the Nation for sectarian purposes, for that would evi- 
 dently lead to abuses, but in this case, where there has been a school 
 established in charity and obviously for charity, I do not think that 
 we ought to put a harsh construction upon this matter. I do not 
 think we ought to deal with it purely as a gratuity, but as an exten- 
 sion of the treaty, and if we do that then it will be possible for these 
 Indians to have their portion of this matter used for the maintenance 
 of these schools, and I wish to be recorded in that way, if the com- 
 mittee please. I am obliged to go down in the Chamber for a few 
 minutes. I will be back in a little while, but I did not like to leave 
 without expressing my opinion in regard to it, since it might look 
 as though I were evading the issue. 
 
 Senator Robinson. There is a debatable point of law. I think 
 you point out one of the grounds of controversy the couclusio7i of 
 
INDIAN APPHOPEIATION BILL. 623 
 
 which is not clear. Mr. Brosius raises the point, if I understand 
 hini correctly, that it is not within the power of Congress by simply 
 passing a law to extend a treaty by the terms of which the treaty 
 itself IS already expired. Mr. Lus'k takes the position that since 
 Congress can alirogate a treaty it necessarily follows it can extend a 
 treaty by simple act. 
 
 Senator Owen. I might suggest, if you wih perpait me, that Con- 
 gress itself has declared that we should not have any more treaties 
 with Indian tribes, and it comes down to a matter of statute at last. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Congress has declared we should not have any 
 more treaties ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; we do not make any more treaties with Indian 
 tribes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That would, then, seem to sustain the conten- 
 tion of Mr. Brosius ? 
 
 Senator Owen. We make simply a contract with them; but this 
 was a treaty and was confirmed by the Senate, if I recollect, and this 
 is an extension of that treaty by an act of Congress, the only way in 
 which it is available now to extend the provisions of a treaty. It is 
 so nicely balanced that a man might easily f aU on either side, accord- 
 ing to his view of it. 
 
 Senator Geonna. The opinion of a layman, of course, is necessarily 
 worthless, I suppose, but it seems to me impossible to extend the 
 treaty unless both parties in interest have something to say about it. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think the Sioux would make no objection to this 
 extension of $200,000 a year. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I am not referring to that particularly. The 
 question is now whether or not Congress has the right to extend the 
 treaty. Would Congress have the right to extend the treaty if the 
 other party, the Indians, for instance, should be opposed to it? 
 
 Senator Owen. Regardless of the wishes of the Indians, the Gov- 
 emment has that right under the rules laid down by the Supreme 
 Court that the United States is the sovereign in the matter, and deals 
 with them as subordinate people and in a condition of pupilage. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I understand some of the Senators could not be 
 here this morning. Personally, I am ready to vote at any time. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Chairman, for many long years I have known 
 Dr. Carroll, formerly the editor of the Independent, and he is here 
 now and would hke to say a very few words, and I trust you will 
 hear him. 
 
 The Chairman. I have no objection. I shall be glad to hear from 
 him. 
 
 STATEMEITT OF DR. HENEY KING CARROLL, REPRESENTATIVE 
 OF HOME MISSIONS COUNCIL, WASHINGTON, D. C. 
 
 Dr. Carroll. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, Mr. Brosius said that 
 the argument or position he took here was representative only of the 
 Indian Rights Association. I want to say that I represent what is 
 known as the Home Missions Council of the United States. That 
 consists of some home mission organizations of some twenty-odd 
 denominations; nearly all the protestant denominations are repre- 
 sented in that. It has a committee on Indian affairs, of which Dr. 
 Moffit, a former Indian missionary, is chairman. It takes a very 
 
624 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 great interest in this matter, and as its representative in Washington 
 I wish to say that the Home Missions Council very gladly and heartily 
 supports the main position taken in Mr. Brosius's paper. We think 
 that the sectarian appropriations, direct and indirect, should end, 
 and we believe that the Government schools should be upheld and 
 patronized, and we think that the House amendment, which I under- 
 stand is now proposed to restore, is the proper amendment, and that 
 the sooner the Government gets out of the comphcations with these 
 things the better it will be for all parties concerned. 
 
 The Chairman. May I ask you a question, Doctor 1 
 
 Dr. Carroll. Certainly. 
 
 The Chairman. I will preface my question with this remark. I 
 have never found any dissent in this committee from the proposition 
 that it is contrary to the policy of our Government to use public 
 funds for private or sectarian purposes. There is no dissent from that. 
 But what is your proposition in reference to funds belonging to the 
 Indians? Suppose a certain fund of $500,000, or say 120,000, 
 belonging absolutely to the Indians, and in good faith and following 
 their predilections they petition that their money, which belongs to 
 them, be spent in maintaining a school of this denomination or that 
 denomination ? Do you think we should be guided by their view of 
 the matter ? 
 
 Dr. Carroll. Mr. Chairman, I think if such a petition is made by 
 aU of a particular tribe that the money that belongs to them should 
 be used for this purpose; I think they have a right to have it granted; 
 but where it is made by only a portion of the tribe, and where it is 
 proposed to take the funds that belong to aU the tribe and apply it to 
 the education of a few of the children or a fragment of them, I do not 
 think that is right. 
 
 Senator TjANe. Right there, I want to know if that is done? 
 
 Mr. LusK. It is not done, Senator. 
 
 Senator IjAne. Because that is an entirely different proposition. 
 
 Mr. Ltjsk. The funds of aU the Indians are not taken to provide 
 support for a limited number of Indians. It is the funds of the In- 
 dians whose children are being educated that are used and those alone 
 in our mission schools. 
 
 Senator Lane. Individual funds ? 
 
 Mr. Llsk. Yes, sir. The value of the pro rata share of each 
 Indian who signs. 
 
 Senator Lane. I have heard some one say here they do use them 
 the other way. 
 
 Father Ketctiam. A good many years ago I was before this Indian 
 Committee on this same subject, and it was thoroughly thrashed out, 
 thoroughly discussed, and the contention at that time was that since 
 each Indian shares in these funds that each Indian should have the 
 right to petition how his portion of this fund might be used; that 
 that should not be left to the tribe but to himself. It affects him- 
 self at the present time and ultimately, and we also at that time 
 showed that by instructing the child in the mission school he was 
 actually saving money to the other portion of the tribe who educate 
 their chUdren m the Government schools, because they are educated 
 at much less expense in the mission schools. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Let me see if I understand Dr. Carroll. Is it 
 your statement that this fund should only be used in the mission 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 625 
 
 schools or in the so-called sectarian schools in the event that all mem- 
 be^ of the tribe approved of it, and in that event it should be done? 
 
 Dr. Caeroll. I think it could be done properly in that case, but I 
 do not see how the fund that belongs to all the Indians could be used 
 to educate a part of the Indians when the other Indians were in the 
 Government schools. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. If I understand it correctly, that is the ques- 
 tion. The point I wanted your opinion on is whether I liad correctly 
 understood you. Is it j'our statement that you concede if all the 
 Indians of a tribe wanted their funds available for educational pur- 
 poses used in the schools it could be properly done, but that if they 
 differed about it none of them should have the right to select their 
 own schools ? Was that it ? 
 
 Dr. Carroll. That would be my position; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Of course, it is inconceivable that a tribe of 
 Indians should ever be entirely unanimous upon any proposition, as 
 it would be that a Committee on Indian Affairs would be unanimous 
 on any proposition, or any other body would be so. 
 
 Dr. Carroll. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that the Government 
 schools are adequate for the care of the Sioux Indian children; and 
 if 'that is so why should these Indian funds be segregated ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. I have understood that, too; but the statement 
 submitted by Mr. Lusk is to the effect that they are not, and he has 
 submitted figures here showing the school population on each of 
 three certain Sioux Reservations, reservations for Sioux Indians. 
 
 Dr. Carroll. Might we not, Senator Robinson, ask the Assistant 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs about that matter ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. If he knows about it, I think we might. The 
 statement by Mr. Lusk was that the school facilities afforded by the 
 Government are in no case of these three cases adequate to afford 
 facilities for all the pupils. I think that might be, as you yourself 
 have suggested, a consideration worthy of attention. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Meritt might furnish that information in the 
 morning. 
 
 Senator Robinson. As I recall the figures that Mr. Lusk submitted 
 in his brief, in two instances there was a shortage, according to his 
 contention, of about 372 in two of them, and I think 156 or 157 in 
 the other. I just call that to your attention in view of your 
 statement. 
 
 The Chairman. It might be well if the department could furnish 
 us the information, if any, it has on that subject, and I should also 
 like to ask that the department submit to us anything it has in its 
 files which will show whether the Government invited any denomina- 
 tion to invest money in the building of schools; and also I should 
 like to have the records showing what induced a change of policy in 
 respect to -the schools and the withdrawal of treaty-fund appropria- 
 tions to maintain them. 
 
 Senator Lane. It is alleged that these Indians who are Catholics 
 vote that their share of the money shall be appropriated for school 
 purposes and that then afterwards they come in on a general division 
 of the remainder of the fund. 
 
 Father Ketoham. Senator, the portions of each individual are 
 used for education either in mission schools or Government schools 
 
 82833 — VOL 1 — 15 40 
 
626 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The petition of the CathoHc Indians is directed to having his monav 
 expended in the mission school and not in the Government school. 
 Of course he does share with all others— would share m funds to be 
 distributed at the end, but most of these funds are not to be divided. 
 They are educational funds. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is one matter I should like to call to the 
 attention of this committee. There are large numbers of the Indians 
 not being educated at all; no school facihties are provided for the 
 children. In the Blackfeet Eeservation, I think the report shows 
 that 900 are out of school out of 1,200. That is the unfortunate fact, 
 and it prevails, as I have been told, on other reservations. There is 
 something ^vrong here. The children are not being civilized; they 
 are not being educated ; they do not know how to speak English, 
 or only such as they pick up from contact with the whites. Some 
 of them in isolated communities do not know how to speak English 
 at all, but are brought up in utter ignorance. Mission schools, I 
 
 fuess, are better conducted than the Government schools. That fact 
 have had impressed upon me. That should not be. The Govern- 
 ment ought to provide as good schools as the Catholic Church can; 
 it ought to be able to do that. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I should like to ask Dr. CarroU one or two ques- 
 tions to get his views upon the real question here. I understand 
 you to say that if an Indian tribe had a fund and all of the tribe 
 wanted the fund used to educate them in any sectarian school that 
 that would be proper ? 
 
 Dr. Caeeoll. I should think the Indians ought to have that right 
 to use their own funds. 
 
 'Senator Clapp. Now what would you say to the right of a portion 
 of the Indians to use their share only of the fund to educate their 
 children according to their views in a sectarian school if it did not 
 impinge upon the fund belonging to the balance of the tribe? 
 
 Dr. Caeeoll. I should think that was all right, provided there 
 were no sufficient Government school accommodations for them. 
 
 Senator Clapp. But involving now the question of the right of the 
 Indian to determine, you concede that if all the Indians of the tribe 
 should desire a particular sectarian school it would be proper that 
 they should have it without any qualification. Now, if that is a 
 fundamental principle of right, why would it not follow that a third 
 of that tribe, if they desiicd that portion of the fund which could be 
 apportioned to them and segregated from the balance of the fund 
 used for that purpose so long as it did not impinge upon the fund 
 pertaining to the balance of the tribe. In other words, why is it not 
 just as much of a right for one Indian to say where his child should 
 be educated out of his own fund, if it does not interfere with the 
 funds of other Indians, as it is for an entire tribe to say where their 
 children should be educated out of the entire fund? 
 
 Senator Page. Do you not introduce there the very discussion we 
 have in aU of our schools in regard to that matter ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Not in the way I put the question I do not intro- 
 duce it. In other words, if I want to send my child to the Baptist 
 school at the expense of nobody on earth but myself, whj- should I 
 not accord to my neighbor the right to send his child to a Methodist 
 school, so long as it does not add any expense to him ? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 627 
 
 rienator Page. The question, as I understand it, is whether we 
 should take a general fund, which should go to build up a common 
 school, and take a part of that out for a sectarian school. I am not 
 taking one ground or the other. 
 
 The CHA,ir>j[AN. What do you mean by a common fund, Senator 
 Page? 
 
 Senator Page. We have, of course, in aU our States sectarian 
 schools, as the3' are patronized by the various denominations, but we 
 do hold that no denomination shall be allowed to take any part of the 
 pubhc fund. Here is a communal or tribal fund, and whether that 
 fluid should be kept intact and used to educate the tribal scholars or 
 whether it should be divided is the matter that appeals to me at this 
 moment, leaving me in doubt. 
 
 Mr. LusK. So far as that question is concerned, the Supreme Court 
 has decided that it is a perfectly proper thing to do. The Supreme 
 Court, I presume, had in mind the distinction between public funds 
 that are raised by taxation and, of course, can not be used for sectarian 
 education, and funds that belong to Indians that have been given to 
 them in consideration of lands that have been ceded by them to the 
 United States and which the Government has always regarded in the 
 light of each Indian having an undivided interest where it is a tribal 
 fund. 
 
 Senator Page. I think I did not make myself quite clear. The 
 amount of the tribal fund is, say, $200,000. Now, there is enough of 
 that fund, if it is used by the Federal Government, to build up a com- 
 mon school, a central school, that can be a good school. If you say 
 that this or that Indian or a portion — 10, 20, or 30 persons — may 
 go in and take out of that general fund their share and divert it to 
 another school, do you not destroy the general weKare of the school 
 system which might, under the Federal Government, be built up there 
 as a whole ? 
 
 Mr. IjTJSK. According to our view we think we improve the school 
 system for this reason — that we think it is a necessity for religious 
 education to be given Indians, and where certain Indians desire 
 that their children should have a religious education, which they can 
 not get in a Government school, and they have moneys of their own, 
 that they ought to be allowed to use it for that purpose. 
 
 Senator Page. You enter into the great contention of aU the States 
 in regard to public fimds or general funds for private or sectarian 
 
 schools. ■,-,,■, , • 1 
 
 ]\Ir. LusK. We do not regard these tribal funds as being the same 
 class as public funds that are raised by taxation. 
 
 Senator Page. I confess ignorance as to the results. You say they 
 are better ? 
 
 Mr. LusK. Better results. 
 . Senator Page. I can not dispute you, because I do not Imow 
 anything about it. As a general statement, however, /I were 
 running the whole thing, I would say here is a fund of $200,000 
 and I will have a good school and they should attend it. If a man 
 wanted to send his children to a sectarian school, of course, and pay 
 for it I should have no objection, but the general school fund which 
 is to be utilized, it seems to rne^, might be better utilized for a central 
 school than to have it divided up into sectarian denominations. 
 
628 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. LusK. Senator, the fact is these Indians have not any money. 
 They could not send their children to a mission school and pay for it. 
 That is, they have practically no money in their pockets; they could 
 not afford to do it. Having this money in the Treasury m which thev 
 have an undivided interest and wanting their children educated in a 
 certain kind of school, we think they should be given that privilege. 
 
 Senator Page. Here at Ardmore, Okla, there are 30 from the Choc- 
 taw, 50 from the Chickasaw, 20 Choctaw boys, and 25 Chickasaw 
 boys, 125 pupils attending a sectarian school. Now, without assert- 
 ing, T ask the question, would you not think it would be better that 
 that 125 boys should join with the 125 boys, perhaps, of other tribes, 
 and have one general school, than to have a sectarian school? In 
 other words, would not the same argument apply that would apply 
 to our schools generally in the North ? 
 
 Mr. LxjsK. There is this difference to start out with: The schools 
 you have in mind, the white schools, are day schools. All of the 
 schools being supported out of tribal funds are boarding schools. 
 We think the policy of the Indian Office for years has been along the 
 same lines, that there is a necessity for boarding schools among the 
 Indians yet; that the day for the general day school has not yet come. 
 
 Senator Page. Does the department recognize that fact? 
 
 Mr. LusK. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. They think that is necessary ? 
 
 Mr. LusK. That there is a necessity for boarding schools. 
 
 Senator Page. And that the aggregation of a large number of 
 Indian pupils in any center where there could be a common, general 
 school, is not as good as to have these boarding schools ? 
 
 Mr. LusK. I am not prepared to say what they think as between 
 the two. I only say the policy of the office is to have boarding schools 
 for the time being, and gradually they are building up a day-school 
 system. 
 
 Senator Page. I am simply making the suggestion that occurred 
 to me in connection with this matter. 
 
 (Thereupon, at 1 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until Fri- 
 day, February 5, 1915, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 FRIDAY, FEBBTJARY 5, 1915. 
 
 United States Senate, 
 Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 WasTiington, D. 0. 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, Robinson, Owen, 
 White, Clapp, La Follette, Page, Gronna, and Townsend. 
 
 SCHOOLS — CHOCTAWS, CHICKASAWS, CREEKS, AND SEMINOLES. 
 
 Senator Owen. There are one or two matters I should like to bring 
 up in regard to Oklahoma. On page 26 of the biU there is an item 
 wnich I wish to call your attention to; it is page 60 of your last print. 
 There is a proviso inserted as follows: 
 
 _ Provided further , That the Secretary of tht Interior is hereby authorized to continue 
 and maintain schools among the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, and Seminole Tribes, 
 payable from the tribal funds of these nations, pursuant to the act of April twenty- 
 sixth, nineteen hundred and six. 
 
 While I assume that that would be limited to the fiscal year, I do 
 not want to have crystaUized into the statute words that might be 
 construed as permanent matter. It has been done time and time 
 again through the fiscal year and I have no objection to that. I 
 wanted to ask that the following words should be inserted: 
 
 During the ensuing fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and fifteen. 
 
 I assume that is the meaning of it, but I do not want to leave the 
 words out. 
 
 Senator Page. The current fiscal year ? 
 
 Senator Owen. No, not the current fiscal year, but the ensuing. 
 
 Senator Page. Then it would be 1916? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes, 1916; that is what I mean; during the ensuing 
 fiscal year ending June 30, 1916. 
 
 I also wanted to insert in line 10, after the word "school," "during 
 the ensuing fiscal year." 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the effect of your amendment, 
 
 Senator? 
 
 Senator Owen. To confine it to one year and not leave it a per- 
 petual policy. 1 . ■ 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not see any objection to that, do you, 
 
 Mr. Chairman? . t i.- i .li. i 
 
 The Chairman. No; I do not see any objection, i think the lan- 
 ffuage means that, anyhow. 
 
 629 
 
630 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Page. That is an item we have passed and you want an 
 amendment to be put in ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. I have no objection. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to insertmg on page 60, 
 line 10, after the word "schools," the words "during the ensumg 
 fiscal year" ? In the absence of objection, that is agreed to. 
 
 Senator Page. The Senator had something about ending June 
 30, 1916. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think I shall insist on that. 
 
 THE SIOUX TREATT. 
 
 The Chairman. When the committee took a recess yesterday, we 
 were discussing the Sioux treaty item on page 69, line 13, and the 
 language proposed to be inserted has been put in the bill for the 
 sake of convenience. On line 15 it is proposed/ to insert the following: 
 
 to be expended under the agreement with said Indiana in section seventeen of the 
 act of March second, eighteen hundred and eighty-nine, which agreement is hereby 
 extended to and includmg June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and sixteen. 
 
 That is the same language, I think, copied from the Indian appro- 
 priation bill of last year. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The office was asked to furnish the committee 
 with information as to whether the Government facilities for edu- 
 cation in those reservations are adequate without the mission schools. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That information is being gotten in the office now, 
 and a letter will be here at the committee room before 12 o'clock 
 to-day. There were several questions asked yesterday, and we are 
 getting that information at the office now. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I suppose, then, we had better take up the 
 Oklahoma matter ? 
 
 The Chairman. I presume so. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I want to say in this connection, however, 
 before passing it, that as a principle I do not favor sectarian schools 
 maintained at pubHc or general expense, and I think that principle 
 applies in some degree to these matters, although I recognize there is 
 a distinction between the tribal fund and a general educational 
 fund. But where these schools have been established in certain reser- 
 vations upon the invitation, expressed or implied, of the Government, 
 and where the Government has failed to provide adequate facilities, 
 I, think a different rule would apply, and I want to say this further in 
 connection with the matter, that we face this fact, that if we take this 
 course, virtually deny to every religious denomination in the United 
 States, Protestant as well as Catholic, the privilege of engaging in the 
 education of Indians, and if it is true that there are a large number of 
 reservations where the Government has failed to provide adequate 
 educational facilities, that makes another consideration which I think 
 we ought to bear in mind. I believe that the proper thing to do is 
 to provide, if it can be done, that no new sectarian schools should be 
 established. I do not think the system should be encouraged, but I 
 believe that it will occasion considerable hardship to these Indians 
 themselves if we virtually suspend the operation of these schools and 
 their activities without at the same time making some provision for 
 adequate public facilities. I wanted to define my views of it as it 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 631 
 
 now appears to me. I have been studying the subject ever since it 
 was raised here. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What is the fact about the estabhshment 
 of these schools by the different churches upon Indian reservations 
 in the beginning ? Has that been taken up here in committee ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. It was stated yesterday that it was done upon 
 the express invitation and encom-agement of the Government, the 
 Government itseK not having the means and not finding it practi- 
 cable to supply the f acihties, and that the Government has encour- 
 aged it in every way possible. The further statement was made, 
 although I did not verify it, "and my experience and investigations 
 of it have not been sufficient to lead me to the conclusion whether 
 it is correct or not, but it was stated by a member of the committee 
 that the so-called sectarian schools were more efficient and better 
 conducted than the Government schools, as a rule. I do not know 
 whether that is true or not, but that assertion was made by Senator 
 Morgan and by Senator Lane. 
 
 Mr. LusK. May I make a statement ? 
 
 Senator Robinson (presiding). Yes. 
 
 Mr. LusK. I just want to answer the question of Senator La Fol- 
 lette as to whether there has been any official invitation to the 
 churches to engage in this work. In the report of the superintend- 
 ent of Indian schools, Mr. Robard, during President Cleveland's 
 first administration, there is an invitation extended to all the churches 
 to engage in this work of educating the Indians, the promise being, 
 made that the churches would provide the school buildings and the 
 necessary facilities for education, the Government, out of its purse, 
 would provide the necessary support. That is the official report of 
 the superintendent of education. 
 
 Senator Robinson. There is another consideration connected with 
 that. These boarding schools are all under the control of the teach- 
 ers who have rehgious views, and to some extent, of course, th 
 same conditions prevail there as in the so-called sectarian schools. 
 
 Mr. LusK. That is, in the Government schools ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yes, sir. I think there is no use running, 
 amuck about the matter ? 
 
 Senator Page. I have received a number of letters, perhaps a 
 dozen or twenty, some from very prominent men; among the rest is 
 Dr. Clark, the founder of the Young Men's Christian Association. 
 They profess very strongly against the continuation of this appro- 
 priatioTi to sectarian schools. I have not thought it wise to bring 
 them into the committee here. Perhaps if there was to be a time 
 set apart for the consideration of this matter I might bring in some 
 
 of them. , 1 J- T-i 
 
 Senator Robinson. I had a communication, I think, from Dr. 
 Clark; also from Mr. Moffit, who has been connected with the organi- 
 zation of Home Missions; and from Dr. Carroll, whb was here yes- 
 terday and made a statement. I think there is some misinformation 
 existing concerning the subject, and, as I said awhUe ago, I favor 
 the principle that underhes that rule. I do not beheve in conducting 
 
 and maintaining at Government expense 
 
 Senator Clapp. I understand there has been no action taken pend- 
 ing the report of the department 1 
 
 Senator Robinson. 'There is another matter to come up. 
 
632 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There are two or three matters, Mr. Chairman, we 
 should like to have brought up. 
 
 RAILROAD EIGHT OF WAY. 
 
 Senator Owen. I have one or two little matters I should Uke to 
 call to the attention of the committee. There is a bill providing, as 
 reported m the House, to this effect, for a right of way for a relocation 
 there that I think ought to pass, and I do not think it is possible to 
 pass unless it goes in this bill. It is as follows : 
 
 That the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway Company be, and is hereby, 
 authorized to reconstruct its line of railroad through the Chilocco Indian School 
 Reservation in the State of Oklahoma to eliminate, where necessary, existing heavy 
 grades and curves, and for such purpose to acquire the necessary right of way, not 
 exceeding two hundred feet in width, subject to the approval of the Secretary of the 
 Interior and to the paymenj; for the land so taken and occupied by such new right of 
 way of such an amount as may be determined by the Secretary of the Interior to be 
 fair and adequate compensation therefor, including all damage which may be caused 
 by the reconstruction of said line of railroad to adjoining lands, crops, and other 
 improvements, said amount to be paid to the Secretary of the Interior for the use and 
 benefit of the Chilocco Indian School. 
 
 Washington, D. C, January 21, 1916. 
 Hon. Robert L. Owen, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. C. 
 
 Dear Senator Owen: Under date of September 18, 1913, you introduced S. 3125, 
 a bill to authorize the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway Co. to change its line of 
 railroad through the Chilocco Indian Reservation, Okla. 
 
 A similar bill, H. R. 7025, was introduced on or about that date in the House by 
 Mr. McGuire. 
 
 On March 10, 1914, Mr. McGuire, from the Committee on Indian Affairs, submitted a 
 favorable report on the bill. On September 8, 1914, the bill passed the House as 
 amended in accordance with the House report. "We inclose copy of the report and of 
 the bill as it passed the House and went to the Senate. As you will note, the bill is 
 now before the Senate Committee on Indian Affair's. 
 
 In the absence of this legislation, the Secretary of the Interior is without authority 
 to sell to the Santa Fe road such land as will be needed and used by the company in 
 straightening its line at this particular point in order to eliminate certain grades and 
 curves, in an effort to insure safer and more efficient operation. This work through 
 the Chilocco school is but a part of a larger work which the company has undertaken 
 in that locality having the same ends — safety and efficiency of operation — in view. 
 
 You will note that as amended by the House, the bill vests in the Secretary of the 
 Interior alone and absolutely the authority to say how much shall be paid by the rail- 
 road for the land taken, including all dam^e which may be caused to adjoining lands, 
 crops, and other improvements, and also provides that the company shall acquire the 
 necessary right of way subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 The company is extremely desirous of obtaining this legislation at the present 
 
 session in order that it may go forward with this "work. We would hence greatly 
 
 appreciate your assistance in securing a favorable report on the bill by the Senate 
 
 Committee on Indian Affairs and favorable consideration of the bill by the Senate. 
 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 Britton & Gray, 
 Attorneys, Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway Co. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What page is that ? 
 
 Senator Owen. It has not been presented in this bill. It was 
 reported in the House by Mr. McGuire of Oklahoma, who submitted 
 in justification of it a letter from the Acting Secretary of the Interior 
 to Mr. Stevens, dated September 2, 1913. ft has not been passed and 
 I think it ought to be provided for. It is only a few lines, and I do not 
 think anybody will object to it. It simply lets them relocate their 
 right of way through the reservation. There are some heavy grades 
 there; they are pulling some big freight trains. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 633 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is safeguarded by -the requirement that the 
 Secretary of the Interior shall approve it ? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move then that it be inserted in the bill. 
 
 Senator Page. The amendment you propose there provides that 
 the Secretary shall approve ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The Senator from Minnesota moves that the 
 amendment be inserted in the bill. 
 
 Senator Owen. I ask that the letter of the Secretary go into our 
 record here, too. 
 
 (The letter is as follows:) 
 
 Department of the Intehioh, 
 
 Washington, September 3, WIS- 
 
 My Dear Mk. Stephens: In further reference to my letter to you of August 16, 
 1913, I have the honor to suhmit herewith a report on H. R. 7025, entitled "A bill 
 to authorize the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway Co. to change its hne of rail- 
 road through the Chilocco Indian Reservation, State of Oklahoma." 
 
 The superintendent, of the Chilocco Indian School has reported that he has been 
 informed that the company intends within the next three years to double-track its 
 road from Arkansas City, Kans., to Newkirk, Okla., north and south of the reserva- 
 tion, respectiv^y; that as the roadbed of the amended location, as shown on a blue- 
 print map submitted by the company, is considerably above the natural surface of 
 the land, it wJlFbe necessary to have a good deal of gi'ound for borrow pits, and that 
 it does not appear that the company can conveniently reconstruct its line of railroad 
 as proposed without a 250-toot right of way, unless it should transport earth for filling 
 purposes from some other source at greater expense. 
 
 In view of the superintendent's report, I see no objection to the provision wii.h 
 respect to the width of the right of way, but desire to call attention to that part of 
 the bill which provides that payment for the right of way shall be made in accordance 
 with provisions of section 15, of the act of Congress approved February 28, 1902 (32 
 Stat., 43). Said section provides that full compensation for right of way and all land 
 taken, and all damage done or to be done by the construction of the railroad, or the 
 taking of any lands for railroad purposes, shall be made to the individual owner, 
 occupant, or allottee of such lands and to the tribe or nation through or in which the 
 same is situated, and that in case of the failure of any railway company to make ami- 
 cable settlement .with any individual owner, occupant, or allottee, tribe, or nation for 
 any right of way, or lands or improvements sought to be appropriated or condemned 
 thereunder, all compensation and damages to be paid to the dissenting individual 
 owner, occupant, allottee, tribe, or nation, shall be determined by the appraisement 
 of three disinterested referees to be appointed by the judge of the United States- 
 court or other court of jurisdiction in the district where such lands are situated, on 
 application of the corporation or other person or party in interest. 
 
 The land within the Chilocco school reserve belongs to the Government, and is used 
 tor Indian school purposes, and I am of the opinion that the amount of such compen- 
 sation should be determined by the Secretary of the Interior. I suggest therefore 
 that E. R. 7025 be amended by striking out all that part following the words "right 
 of way," in Une 11, page 1, inserting in lieu thereof the following: 
 "of such an amount as may be determined by the Secretary of the Inierior to be fair 
 and adequate compensation therefor, including all damages which may be caused 
 by the construction of said line of railroad to adjoining lands, crops, and other im- 
 provements, said amount to be paid to the Secretary of the Interior tor the use and 
 benefit of the Chilocco Indian School." 
 
 If H. R. 7025 is amended in accordance with the above suggestion, I have no objec- 
 tion to its enactment into law. A redraft of H. R. 7025 embodying the suggested 
 amendment is inclosed herewith for your convenience. 
 Cordially, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, Acting Secretary. 
 
 Hon. John H. Stephens, 
 
 Chairman Commitie". on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives . 
 
 Senator La Follbtte. I wish to inquire why it is necessary tO' 
 aUow them to purchase a right of way 250 feet in width *? 
 
634 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. It does not do that. It says it shaU not exceed 
 that. Where they haVe much of a cut it sometimes may Happen that 
 it may be necessary. I think it rarely would be necessary. 
 
 Senator La FoLiETTB. The general statute, as I recollect it, tor 
 obtainmg rights of way across Government land for railroad com- 
 panies permits them to acquire a right of waj 100 feet in width, ex- 
 cepting at railway stations, where I think it is permitted to be 200 
 feet in width by 3,000 feet long, for station and yard privileges. 
 
 Senator Owen. I have no objection to cutting this down to what- 
 ever may be thought reasonable. They might want a station on this 
 reservation. I do not know whether they would or not, but they have 
 asked only for the right of way. If it is put not exceeding 150 feet, I 
 should think that would be satisfactory. 
 
 Senator La Follette. One hundred feet is the usual railroad 
 right of way. 
 
 Senator Owen. Does that cover the cases where they have much of 
 a cut, "or do you know ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think so. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. In places where cuts and fills are required under the 
 law we can grant them a right of way 200 feet in width. 
 
 Senator Owen. This is a maximum of 200 feet only. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Make it the maximum, then. 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 MJr. Memtt. This legislation is necessary because we have no 
 authority under the general act to grant rights of way across school 
 reserves. We have the right under the general law to grant rights of 
 way across reservations only. 
 
 Senator EoBiNSON. Is there objection? There being no objection, 
 it is agreed to« 
 
 Have you another matter. Senator Owen ? 
 
 JUDGMENTS AGAINST MISSISSIPPI CHOCTAWS. 
 
 Senator Owen. There is one other matter. The Indian Office 
 wanted — I do not know whether Mr. Meritt brought it up or not. 
 It related to the repeal of an act that directed the Secretary to pay 
 Albert Lee for certain judgments he got down in Oklahoma. Wnat 
 is the attitude of the Indian Office about that? I have this matter 
 before me here, but I do not know just where it came from. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I do not think the office made a report on that. 
 Senator. 
 
 Senator Owen. I have here a statement Mr. Hurley handed me. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Are those judgments against the Government? 
 
 Senator Owen. No, sir; against individuals, but it appears to have 
 been obtained fraudulently. Is not that the case, Mr. Meritt, or do 
 you know ? 
 
 Mr. Memtt. Mr. Hurley, the Choctaw attorney, could give you 
 more information on that subject than I could. 
 
 Mr. Hurley. These judgments that were obtained by Albert J. 
 Lee, an attorney, against certain Mississippi Choctaw Indians. The 
 judgments were for fees for services rendered by Mr. Lee, or alleged 
 to have been rendered by him, in securing enrollment for those Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws in the Choctaw Nation. The Department of Justice 
 has reported that the records of its office and the records in the so- 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 635 
 
 called Winton case, pending in the Court of Claims, show that Mr. 
 Lee did not render the services, and the Secretary of the Interior has 
 written a letter to Senator Ashurst asking that the provision author- 
 izing the payment of these judgments out of the funds belonging to 
 the Indians in the Treasury be repealed. A more direct manner of 
 getting at the issues would be the method suggested by the Attorney 
 General and the letter of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Lane. When did we authorize the payment of that, last 
 year? 
 
 Mr. Hurley. 1912— by act of August 24, 1912, in the appropria- 
 tion bill. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Will you read the letters ? 
 
 Senator Owen (reading) : 
 
 Depabtment of the Interior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 " Washington, January 27, 1915. 
 
 I, C. F. Hauke, Second Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs, do hereby certify 
 that the paper hereto attached is a true copy of the original as the same appears on file 
 in this office. 
 
 In testimony whereof, I have hereunto subscribed my name and caused the seal of 
 this office to be affixed on the day and year first above written. 
 
 _ 0. F. Hauke, 
 Second Assistant Commissioner. 
 
 [Winton et al. v. Amos et al. Court ol Claims.] 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, March 27, 191S. 
 The Attorney General. 
 
 Sir: The department has received a communication of March 19, 1913 (G. M. A.), 
 from Acting Assistant Attorney General F. De 0. Faust, requesting for use in the case 
 of the Estate of Charles F. Winton, deceased, et al. v. Jack Amos et al., known as Mis- 
 sissippi Choctaws No. 29821, Court of Claims, a copy of a letter from the Secretary to 
 the chairman of the Dawes Commission dated August 26, 1899, referred to in a letter 
 from said commission to the Secretary of the Interior dated September 1, 1899, said 
 letfer of August 26, 1899, of the department to the acting chairman of the Commission 
 to the Five Civilized Tribes having reference to the evidence which should be required 
 of Mississippi Choctaw claimants to establish their right of identification. In connec- 
 tion therewith there is enclosed for your information a" copy of department letter of 
 August 10, 1899, relative to Mississippi Choctaw matters. 
 
 Referring to the inqtiry as to whether it has come to the attention of the department 
 that any suits had been brought against Mississippi Choctaws in the State of Okla- 
 homa for the value of services alleged to have been rendered to said Indians in secur- 
 ing the recognition of their rights in the Choctaw Nation, and also whether it has 
 come to the knowledge of the department that the plaintiffs in said cases had requested 
 legislation of Congress in order to collect judgments in said cases from the funds held 
 in trust for said Indians, your attention is invited to the provision contained in sec- 
 tion 18 of the Indian appropriation act of August 24, 1912 (37 Stat. L., 519-533), 
 authorizing and directing the Secretary of the Interior to satisfy of record the judg- 
 ments rendered in the district court of Oklahoma for the eighth judicial district on 
 December 15, 1911, in favor of Albert J. Lee against Jack Postoak in the sum of 
 $1,448 by the payment thereof out of any funds that might then or thereafter be to 
 the credit of the heirs of Bessie Postoak; against King Isaacs and others in the sum 
 of 11,449 by the payment thereof out of any funds that might then or thereafter be 
 to the credit of the heirs of Roger Isaacs; against Thompson Peters in the sum of 
 $1,476 by the payment thereof out of any funds that might then or thereafter be to 
 the credit of the heirs of Sookie Peters; and against Zeno Huff in the sum of $732 
 by the pajrment thereof out of any funds that might then or thereafter be to the 
 credit of said Zeno Huff. 
 
 It was provided that before such payments should be made in full said Albert J. Lee 
 should sign a receipt in full for all claims for service, as specified in said provision, and 
 file said receipt with the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
636 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BII.I.. 
 
 Referring to S. oSo3 entitled "A bill providing for the payment of judgments apinst 
 certain Mississippi Choctaw Indians, " and which had reference to the above-mentioned 
 claims of Albert J. Lee, the department on April 23, 1912, submitted a report to the 
 chairman of the Committee on fndiau Affairs of the United States Senate. A copy of 
 said report is inclosed for your information. ti, i. 
 
 There are also inclosed copies of correspondence and papers relating to the above- 
 mentioiied legislation and to the suits referred to therein. It appears that J. k,. 
 Arnold his instituted suit in the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia to enjoin 
 the Secretary of the Interior from carrying out the provisions of the Indian appropria- 
 tion a?t of August 24, 1912, for the payment of the judgments obtained m Oklahoma 
 by Albert J. Lee against Jack Postoak and certain other Mississippi Choctaw Indians. 
 Respectfully, 
 
 Lewis C. Laylin, Assistant Secretary. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Right there, I should like to ask the Senator if he 
 knows of any way by which judgment could be collected against In- 
 dians who are wards of the Government excepting by the authority 
 of Congress ? 
 
 Senator Owen. No; I do not. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What has the Senator to say whether that 
 judgment is a proper judgment 'l 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not believe the judgment is a proper judg- 
 ment, from what I have seen of the records, but I am not sufhciently 
 fresh now upon the record to give the citations. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think myself we ought to suspend that payment 
 pending the further investigation. 
 
 Senator Owen. The secretary, Franklin J. Lane, addresses a letter, 
 May 23, 1913, to William K. Stone, as follows. If I may read that, I 
 think that will give the facts. Mr. Stone at that time was chairman 
 of the committee. [Reading:] 
 
 AMENDMENT TO H. R. 20150. 
 
 After line 15, nn page 27, insert the following: 
 
 That portion of the act of Congress approved August 24, 1912, making appropriations 
 for the current and contingent expenses of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for fulfilling 
 treaty stipulations with the various Indian tribes, and for other purposes, for the fiscal 
 year ending June 30, 1913, which reads as follows: 
 
 "That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to satisfy'of 
 record the judgments rendered in the district court of Oklahoma, for the eighth judicial 
 district, on December fifteenth, nineteen hundred and eleven, in favor of Albert J. 
 Lee and against Jack Postoak,' in the sum of one thousand four hundTed and forty- 
 eight dollars-, by the payment thereof out of any funds that may now or hereafter be to 
 the credit of the heirs of Bessie Postoak; against King Isaacs and others in the sum of 
 one thousand four hundred and forty-nine dollars, by payment thereof out of any 
 funds that may now or hereafter be to the credit of the heirs of Roger Isaacs; against 
 Thompson Peters in the sum of one thousand four hundred and seventy-six dollars, 
 by the payment thereof out of any funds that may now or hereafter be to the credit 
 of the heirs of Sookie Peters; and against Zeno Huff in the sum of seven hundred and 
 thirty-two dollars, by the payment thereof out of any funds that may now or hereafter 
 be to the credit of the said Zeno Huff: Provided, That before such payments shall be 
 made in full said Albert J. Lee shall sign a receipt in full for all claims for services aa 
 herein specified and file the same with the Secretary of the Interior" — 
 be and the same is hereby repealed. 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, B.C., January t'8, 1915. 
 Pursuant to section 882 of the Revised Statutes, I hereby certify that the annexed 
 papers are true copies, as shown by the records and files of the Department of the 
 Interior. 
 
 In testimony whereof, I have hereunto subscribed my name, and caused the seal 
 of the Department of the Interior to bo affixed, the day and year first above written. 
 
 Bo Sweeney, 
 [seal.] Assistant Secretary of the Interior. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 637 
 
 Depahtment of Justice, 
 
 Washington, April 'J4, 1913. 
 Hon. Franklin K. Lane, 
 
 Secretary of the Inlerior. 
 
 Sir: I have the honor to call your attention to a palpable injustice that has heen 
 done several Mississippi Choctaws. My attention was first detiniteh' called to this 
 matter by a report from your department in the case of Charles F. Winton et al. v. 
 Jack Amos et al., known as Mississippi Choctaws, No. 29821, Court of Claims, a printed 
 copy of which I inclose herewith. 
 
 This report (pp. 7 to 66) contains a record of four suits instituted in the district 
 court of Carter County, Okla., against certain designated Mississippi Choctaws, by 
 one Albert J. Lee, consisting of testimfmy and the judgments of the court readered 
 in each case on December 15, 1911. The suits were based upon alleged services 
 rendered these Mississippi Choctaws in procuring a provision for their benefit in 
 section 21 of the act of April 26, 1906 (.34 Stat., 145). 
 
 Speaking of this provision, the claimant, Lee, testified, pages 19 and 20 of the report, 
 as follows: 
 
 "The time was drawing to a conclusion and I appeared before the subcommittee of 
 the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, which was then in session, Mr. Bixby being 
 present, and stated to the committee what I had to run up against in these cases — 
 the holding of the department — that I represented these people, and that there ought 
 to be some provision included in the biU to take care of it. They discussed it for a 
 moment with Mr. Bixby, and finally they turned to me and directed me to draw an 
 amendment to the bill then pending, to allow the heirs to make proof, and I drew 
 that amendment, and it is a part of the act of May 26, 1906, in the exact words that I 
 wrote it, except that they added that the action of the commissioner should be final. 
 They gave 60 days to make the proof after the passage of the bill, and the important 
 thing was to get it in in the 60 days." 
 
 The suit of Winton and his associates, to which I have already referred, was brought 
 against the Mississippi Choctaws for alleged services rendered in securing for them 
 the legislation by which they obtained allotments of Choctaw lands in the Indian 
 Territory, and among the names of Mississippi Choctaws with whom the claimant 
 and interveners in the Winton case claimed to have contracts are found the names 
 of all of the Mississippi Choctaws against whom judgments were rendered in the 
 Oklahoma district court in favor of said Albert J. Lee. 
 
 Concerning the very provision upon wliich the said Lee based his claims against 
 Jack Post Oak and three other Mississippi Choctaws, Tams Bixby, Esq., chairman of 
 the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, testified in the Winton case as follows: 
 
 "41. Question. The act of April 26, 1906, section 21, provides among other things 
 that heii-s of deceased Mississippi Choctaws who died before making proof of re- 
 moval to a settlement in the Choctaw country, and within the period prescribed by 
 law for making such proof, may, within 60 days from the passage of this act, appeal- 
 before the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes and make such proof as would 
 be required if made by such deceased Mississippi Choctaws; and the decision of 
 the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes shall be final therein, and no appeal 
 therefrom shall be allowed. 
 
 " Please state by whom this provision was drafted. 
 
 "Mr. Robeson. I object to the testimony of this witness as to the name of the 
 person who proA'ided this bill. 
 
 "Answer. I can't tell you the name of the person, but that provision or one similar 
 to it was drafted in our office at Muskogee. 
 
 "42. Question. For what purpose was that provision? 
 
 "Mr. Robeson. I object to the testimony of this witness in response to that ques- 
 tion as being incompetent and irrelevant. 
 
 "Answer. For the purpose of protecting the allotment cf those persons who had 
 removed from Mississippi to Indian Territory before they had made proof of final 
 
 settlement. ,. , „ x- i 
 
 "43. Question. Then, that provision, according to your recollection, was prepared 
 
 by the Commission. to the Five Civibzed Tribes? 
 "Mr Robeson. The witness has not so stated. 
 "Answer I remember my answer. That provision or a provision simdar was 
 
 prepared in the office of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tnbes." (Record, 
 
 ^ The attention of the court in the suits against Jack Post Oak et al., mentioned in 
 the report from your department, does not appear to have been called to the fact 
 that another suit was pending in the Court of Claims under a special act of Congress 
 for services in securing the same legislation for which he claimed. In fact, the onlv 
 
638 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 defense to the suits seems to have been made on the grpund that the district coiirts 
 of Oklahoma had no jurisdiction of claims against Indians, and no defense on tne 
 
 merits was made at all. -,„ir. /o-r o* * kqqn ™c,/1q 
 
 Congress, in the Indian appropriation act of August 24, 1912 (37 btat p^ Mdj, maae 
 an appropriation for the payment of the judgments against Jack Jr-ost Uaf ana tne 
 other Mississippi Choctaws. I do not think that Congress had any authority to pay 
 the debts of individual Indians out of funds held in trust for them by the Umted 
 States. . , J! n rm. 
 
 The Court of Claims has decided this very question m the case of Orreen i^-lhe 
 Menominee Tribe of Indians in Wisconsin (47 C. Cls., 281), m which the court held 
 inter alia that Congress had no authority to pay the debts of individual Menominee 
 Indians out of funds held in trust for them by the United States. This case is now 
 pending in the Supreme Court upon appeal. .... 
 
 It would seem to be a great injustice to require the heirs at law of four Mississippi 
 Choctaws to pay sums aggregating $5,135 for general legislation secured fOT the Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws through the efforts of the Dawes Commission, in addition to which 
 it seems clear that Congress has no more authority to pay judgments against Choc- 
 taw citizens of the United States and the State of Oklahoma than it has to pay 
 judgments against white citizens of that State. The judgments in each case should 
 be collected in the usual way. 
 
 I also call your attention to the Government brief in the Winton case on a motion 
 to dismiss, which was overruled without prejudice to be raised again at the trial of 
 the case on merits (pp. 154 to 193). 
 
 I believe, for the reasons given, that an effort should be made to have the provision 
 appropriating funds for the payment of the judgments against Post Oak and others 
 repealed at this session of Congress. 
 Respectfully, 
 
 ■^ F. De C. Faust, 
 
 Acting Assistant Attorney General 
 
 (For the Attorney General). 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, May 2S, 1913. 
 
 My Dear Senator: I am inclosing for your information and such consideration 
 as you find it entitled to copy of a letter from the Department of Justice relating to 
 an 'item in the Indian appropriation act approved August 24, 1912, directing the 
 Secretary of- the Interior to satisfy of record certain judgments rendered in the Dis- 
 trict Court of Oklahoma for the eighth judicial district on December 15, 1911, in 
 favor of Albert J. Lee and against Jack Postoak and other Mississippi Choctaw Indians 
 by the payment thereof out of any funds then or thereafter to the credit of said Indians. 
 
 Payment of these judgments was attempted to be secured by a separate bill (S. 5853, 
 62d Cong., 2d. sess.). This department, in a report dated April 23, 1912, recited the 
 history of the matter and recommended that the bill be not enacted. A copy of that 
 report will be found in a report of this department made to the Attorney General in 
 response to a request for information in connection with the suit of Charles F. Winton 
 et al V. Jack Amos et al., now pending in the Court of Claims. (Copy herewith.) 
 
 The Department of Justice states that the suit of Winton and others was brought 
 agaiiist the Mississippi Choctaws for alleged services in securing the legislation, and 
 that the names of all the Mississippi Choctaws against whom judgments were rendered 
 in the Oklahoma court in favor of Lee appear as defendants in the Winton suit. The 
 basis of Lee's judgment was likemse services alleged to have been rendered by him 
 in securing said legislation. 
 
 It thus appears that if payment is made to Lee these Indians will be in danger of 
 having to make double payment for the same services. This department agrees 
 the Department of Justice that it would be a great injustice to require the heirs of 
 four Mississippi Choctaws to pay for services rendered in securing from Congress legis- 
 lation affecting all Mississippi Choctaws. 
 
 I am advised that payment has not been made to Lee because at first the judgments 
 in his favor had not become final, and later because litigation has been commenced 
 in the Oklahoma courts by other parties, presumably interested in the Winton suits, 
 to prevent the payment to Lee. 
 
 i am inclosing also copy of the brief referred to by the Department of Justice, especial 
 attention being directed to pages 154 to 192 thereof. 
 
 Under all the circumstances it seems quite possible that these Indians may suffer 
 a grave injustice if their funds are used in this manner to pay the claim of Mr. Lee. 
 This department is therefore inclined to agree with the Department of Justice that 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 639 
 
 the provision mentioned in the appropriation act of August 24, 1912, should be repealed 
 and the parties remitted to the courts for adjustment of the controversy. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Franklin K. Lane. 
 Hon. WiLLLAM J. Stone, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What assurance have you that the status of 
 the case is the same as it was in 1912 and 1913 when you had that 
 correspondence ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I really have no knowledge about it except just 
 this record handed to me. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I have no knowledge about it, but the sug- 
 gestion has been made to me that there is another side to it, and that 
 Mr. Baljinger would like to present it very briefly. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. If the committee will indulge me just a moment. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is there any objection to Mr. BaUinger being 
 heard ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I have no objection to Mr. BaUinger being given a 
 hmited time. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. WEBSTER BALLINGER, ATTORNEY AT 
 LAW, WASHINGTON, D. C. - 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I was not per- 
 sonally present at the trial of this case, but I have seen a certified 
 copy of the record of the proceedings before the court. At the trial 
 of these cases the United States district attorney was present, also 
 Mr. George Wright, then Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 was present at the trial of the cases, and at the time the judgments 
 were entered. The Indians were called into court and admitted their 
 indebtedness. Judgments were duly entered and an appeal was 
 taken to the Supreme Court of Oklahoma. I do not know what 
 disposition has been made of that, but reference has been made to 
 Mr. Lea having made some false representations. I recall in 1906 
 when he appeared before the committee. Senator Clapp was the 
 chairman of the subcommittee; Senator McCumber was the other 
 member and Senator Stone was the minority member, when he 
 appeared upon this particular matter. I thmk probably Fenator 
 Qapp will recall it, because Senator Cullom, of IlUnois, spoke -to him 
 about it and arranged for the hearing. 
 
 Now as to the judgments. When this act was passed there was a 
 certified copy of this entire proceeding laid before this committee and 
 examined by the members who inserted the provision in the bdl. No 
 objection was made at that time. Since this act of Congress has 
 passed those judgments have been sold to purchasers relymg upon 
 the act of Congress, and are now in the hand^ of mnocent purchasers 
 for value and I submit, while I have no interest personally at all m 
 this matter, T submit that without a hearing afforded the parties who 
 are interested in these judgments, that it would be manifestly unfair. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, I remember the whole occasion, of 
 course. It was perfectly proper at the time. The cojpies of the judg- 
 ment were before the committee and the committee had the right to 
 assume that the judgments were properly rendered. We, of course, 
 were not sitting as a court of review; we could not do that anyhow. 
 
640 INDIA-N APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 At the same time the appeal of this does not defeat the judgment; it 
 «imply suspends the payment and, inasmuch as the department has 
 caUed attention to it, I do not see why it would not be proper enough 
 to suspend the payment until further mvestigation. i know of no 
 way, however, by which anybody can recover those judgments 
 unless they have the authority of Congress to have them paid out of 
 that fund, and, sooner or later, we ought to determine that the judg- 
 ments are invalid, or we ought to pay them. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think, of course, that is true, although i do not 
 really know anything about it. AH I know is this was handed to me 
 and it looked hke a matter which ought to be called to the attention 
 of the committee, therefore I performed my duty about it. I think 
 Mr. BaUinger's contention is right that the man ought to be heard 
 who is having the side against him presented here. I do not know 
 what his defense would be. 
 
 Senator Page. Is there no way in which we can prevent this ever- 
 lasting attack from one side and the other from year to year ? 
 
 Senator Owen. That is a part of the game. That has gone on 
 since the foundation of this Government. You have a pro and a con 
 on every question affecting these Indian people, and will have until 
 you end the Indian Department and these Indians are merged into 
 the general citizenship of the United States. I hope some of these 
 days that I shall see the end of it, because I want to live a couple of 
 hundred years. 
 
 Senator Page. This seems to be a case we have taken up and 
 passed upon through a subcommittee and that subcommittee has 
 given us its opinion about it, and I wish somebody would assure me 
 when we have been here 10,000 years there will be a few less days 
 remainiag in which we must consider this thing than when we began, 
 but it does not appear now. 
 
 Senator Clapp. There is no question that the action of the com- 
 mittee was perfectly proper. If we had done otherwise it would 
 have been an injustice. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Upon what ground do they now claim that the 
 judgments are fraudulent? Upon what facts do they base that 
 claim ? 
 
 Mr. Hurley. Some one asked for a hearing of the other side. I 
 should hke to ask Senator Clapp if at the time these j'udgments were 
 presented and you were asked to enact a law authorizing their pay- 
 ment, did anyone representing Post Oak or the Choctaw Nation 
 appear or were they served with notice of any kind that there would 
 be a hearing ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. The committee assumed that a certified judgment 
 was a valid judgment, of course, and would again under the same 
 circumstances. 
 
 Mr. Hurley. I knew nothing of the measure until I saw it in the 
 bill, and then I was furnished with the records such as you were fur- 
 nished with, and also took it up with the Department of Justice. 
 The Department of Justice informed me that these people were in 
 danger of having to pay twice for the same services. They are being 
 sued in the Court of Claims in the so-called Winton case for these 
 services that this law authorizes to be paid for out of any money that 
 they may have in the Treasury. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 641 
 
 Now those are personal judgments against those Indians. They 
 are citizens of the United States. I understand that notes were 
 given by them to these attorneys and that judgment was procured 
 on those notes; that the district attorney who defended the Indians 
 did not defend them on the merits of the case, but on the theory that 
 they have no jurisdiction to sue those Indians, and the court held, 
 of course, that the court did have jurisdiction to entertain suit. 
 Now they have sought the aid of Congress to secure the payment of 
 that judgment. They have the same right against those Indians on 
 personal judgment that they have against white people, but now we 
 are about to procure a distribution of Choctaw funds, or a portion of 
 them. Those Indians are in need of that fund. If you allow this to 
 remain on the record, and the judgment becomes final — it is not final 
 yet — the Secretary of the Interior can be compelled to pay- these 
 attorneys the per capita payment that would be due these Indians. 
 I want to stop that. If they are entitled to this money let them 
 procure it through the proper course. They do not have to come to 
 Congress to satisfy a judgment against an individual. They are just 
 seeking this additional power to force these Indians to pay for services 
 alleged to have been rendered, and another suit pending in the Court 
 of Claims to recover from the same Indians for the same services, and 
 I submit that it is unfair to put these Indians into that position 
 where they are hkely to pay for both 
 
 Senator Clapp. There are two phases to this question. Of course 
 you can say you can collect a judgment against an Indian the same 
 as against a white man. We know the Indians as a rule have no 
 funds except those that are in the hands of the United States Gov- 
 ernment, and from time immemorial it has been, and I apprehend 
 it will be in the future, the custom that where valid claims exist 
 against Indians, and the Government is handling their funds, they 
 will pay those claims; and if a man has a valid judgment that is un- 
 questioned, there is no reason that it should not be paid, and it is 
 the proper way to pay them. On the other hand, if it is claimed that 
 this judgment was obtained improperly or if another suit is pending 
 for the same thing, then I unhesitatingly say we should suspend this 
 payment pending the further investigation of that matter. The 
 committee acted on the judgment. It would act in the same way 
 to-day if a man brought in a certified copy of a judgment of original 
 jurisdiction— we would assume that that judgment was correct and 
 the copy a true copy. The committee did just what it would do 
 to-day under a similar case. But it now appearing that there is 
 some claim as to the validity of the judgment, and a claim that two 
 cases are pending for the same amoujat, I think we should suspend 
 the payment pending that investigation. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Have suits been brought to set aside these 
 judgments on the ground of fraud? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No; I do not thmk they have. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I wanted to know why that was not done. 
 Judgments, of course, are directly appealed. You can not appeal 
 them collaterally. You can not try out an issue m court and let 
 judgment be rendered and then go to any tribunal and impeach that 
 ludgment on the ground of fraud. Every court that ever passes on 
 the case holds that judgment prima facie to be true, and it can only 
 
 82833 — 70L 1 — 15 41 
 
642 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 be appealed directly; that is, by a direct proceeding to set it aside 
 on the ground of fraud. , , , 
 
 Mr. HuKLEY. The fact is, these judgments are not final and tne 
 case is pending undetermined in the Supreme Court of Oklahoma. 
 Judgment has been rendered in the trial court, but no judgment m the 
 supreme coiu't, and here is a law authorizing the payment of the 
 judgment when rendered. What I want the committee to understand 
 IS that no final judgment has been rendered against these Indians m 
 either of the suits now, either in the Court of Claims, where they are 
 being sued by other parties for the same services, or in the case pend- 
 ing in the Supreme Court of the United States. Neither judgment is 
 final. 
 
 Senator Townsend. There are two suits pending, are there, differ- 
 ent cases 1 
 
 Mr. Hurley. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Different suits ? 
 
 Mr. Hurley. Yes, sir; for the same services. 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. Senators, if this case is pending before the Supreme 
 Court of the State of Oklahoma, then the judgment is not a final 
 judgment and the department would not respect the judgment until 
 it did become final; tlierefore I suggest to you that there is no neces- 
 sity for this legislation repealing an act of Congress. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Wiiy should Congress authorize payment of a 
 judgment before the judgment has become final ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I can not answer you. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I assumed, and of course everybody else did, 
 that a judgment was final. 
 
 Senator Owen. I thought it was final. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I think this is the situation there. I think they 
 thought the judgment was final, and I think that is the question now 
 before the Supreme Court of Oklahoma, as to whether or not it is 
 not a final judgment. They allowed the time to elapse in which 
 an appeal could be taken, then attempted to prosecute their appeal. 
 That is the situation as I understand it. Just one suggestion there. 
 Purchasers of these judgments — I know them- bought them upon 
 the good faith of the act of Congress, and the good faith of the judg- 
 ments, and if you now repeal that why you are taking away from 
 them the very security upon which they made their investments. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What did they pay for their judgments ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I am not certain. I can not tell you. 
 
 Senator Owen. Who bought them 1 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Harry Masterson of Houston, Tex., I think, was 
 the purchaser of one or two of them and somebody else in Texas was 
 the purchaser of another one, and I think one of the banks. 
 
 Senator Owen. Who financed the Choctaw contention ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I think Harry Masterson was one of those who 
 financed to some extent the Mississippi Choctaw matter. 
 
 Now, Senators, the question of fraud here, I want to call your 
 attention to that. The charge of fraud is that Albert J. Lee testified 
 in this proceeding that he came before the Senate committee and 
 secured this provision that afiforded these people relief. They say 
 that was fraudulent, because Mr. Bixby in another proceeding up in 
 the Court of Claims has represented that the department did it. That 
 I submit is not proof of fraud, the mere fact that the departmental 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 643 
 
 officers say they did, and Mr. Lee says lie did it, is no evidence of 
 fraud. 
 
 Senator Robinson. No; certainly not. You often find half a 
 dozen Congressmen trying to take credit for the same legislation 
 you often find confhct between Senators as to who deserves credit 
 lor certain things; you often find Senators and Congressmen trying 
 to take credit for acts of the departments. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes; and trying to avoid responsibility. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yes; trying to avoid responsibility. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. That is the only basis of fraud in this charge. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Of course, before we repeal the law on the 
 ground that a man committed fraud we ought to give him a hearing. 
 
 Senator Page. I am opposed to voting on the amendment at this 
 time. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I make this suggestion, Senator Owen, that 
 this -will be subject to a point of order, anyway, would it not ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think perhaps you had better introduce a bill 
 and let the committee take it up and determine it separately and 
 give the parties a hearing on it. 
 
 Senator Page. If a bill is introduced let me suggest that we let it 
 come before us and hear both sides, so we shall not have to have this 
 rehashed in 1920. 
 
 Senator Clapp. If it is made a matter of a separate bill there will 
 be plenty of time to get all the parties here before it will ever pass 
 Congress, and we need not worry about its having consideration. 
 
 Senator Owen. It means there will not be any action. 
 
 ]Mr. Hurley. Is the committee now going to allow this act to 
 remain as it is and allow these Indians to perhaps have to pay two 
 judgments for the same thing, or will the committee suspend the 
 operation of this law until such time as both sides can be heard? 
 The law was enacted on hearing of only one side. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The law was enacted upon certified copies of judg- 
 ments. There was no hearing about it one way or the other ? 
 
 Mr. Hurley. A law was enacted and no one representing the 
 Indians has been heard. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Of course not. 
 
 Senator Owen. Instead of repealing this, if we just suspend its 
 operation until the next Congress, then we would have an oppor- 
 tunity to go into it more fully. 
 
 Mr. Hurley. That would be satisfactory to me. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not object to repealmg it if you have 
 reached the conclusion that it ought to be repealed, if you have 
 investigated it. I want what is fair and right m the matter, and 
 if you are prepared to say it ought to be repealed I wiU agree with 
 
 Senator Owen. I think it ought to be suspended and then compel 
 some action in the near future. ,. . . 
 
 Senator Page. I have no objection to suspending it six months or 
 
 ^ "Senator La Follette. To suspend it for a lunited time? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; suspend it for a year. I thmk that would 
 be aU right. 
 
644 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I do not want to suggest anything in reference to 
 a judgment, but the judgment is suspended, accordmg to Mr. Hur- 
 ley's own statement. If it is before the court of appeals or the 
 Supreme Court of Oklahoma, it is suspended. Now, if there is any 
 question about that, such as the question of fraud, he can go into 
 the court in Oklahoma and directly attack that judgment. He has 
 a complete and adequate remedy, and when he files that proceeding 
 in the court there can be a judicial determination of the question, 
 and I think that, is the fair way, and he can suspend payment by 
 instituting that proceeding to-morrow. 
 
 The Chaieman. Is that true, Mr. Hurley ? 
 
 Mr. HuELEY. Mr. BaUinger seems to have an erroneous conception 
 of the status of the case. I am not a party to the litigation. I was 
 not an attorney in the case; the United States district attorney for 
 the Eastern District of Oklahoma brought and prosecuted the case. 
 I understand that the status of the case is this : That the United States 
 attorney elected to stand on the lack of jurisdiction in the State court 
 to entertain such a suit, and the case is now pending in the Supreme 
 Court on that technicality to determine that question. The question 
 of fraud has not been raised in the case at all. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Jurisdiction is not a technicality. Jurisdiction 
 is fundamental, and is so regarded in every judicial forum in the 
 world, and if there was no jurisdiction of person, of course, the judg- 
 ment is void and would be so held. 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. The exact facts are that they came in and de- 
 murred to the biU and the demurrer was overruled, and then they 
 went to trial on the merits, and judgment was entered on the merits, 
 with the district attorney, Mr. George J. Wright, present, and judg- 
 ment was entered; then they took an appeal, and, of course, on their 
 appeal they revived their demurrer, which can be raised up in the 
 Court of Appeals or in the supreme court of the State. That is the 
 status of the matter. 
 
 The Chaieman. What will the committee do ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. I think it ought to be suspended. I do not 
 think we have the possession of the facts here to pass on this. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think it is all right to suspend it for a limited time. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do I understand, Mr. Hurley, that the rights 
 of these Indians are in jeopardy because of two suits pending? 
 
 Mr. HuELEY. Yes, sir; that is true. 
 
 Senator Townsend. You say there are different plaintiffs in the 
 two cases ? 
 
 Mr. HuELEY. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Does the first suit take care of all the plain- 
 tiffs in the case ? 
 
 Mr. HunLEY. Take care of all the plaintiffs in the case ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. Yes; you have several plaintiffs. In the two 
 suits there are different plaintiffs? 
 
 Mr. Hueley. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. They are antagonistic, are they not? 
 
 Mr. Hueley. Yes, sir. Other plaintiffs are seeking to recover from 
 these Indians for the same services which Mr. I^ee has recovered a 
 judgment for. Neither of the judgments are final, ei'ther in the Court 
 of Claims or in the Supreme Court of the State of Oklahoma. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 645 
 
 Senator Townsend. Why has this been lying qxiiet here practically 
 since 1913 ? 
 
 Mr. Hurley. It has not been lying quiet. Letters from the Attor- 
 ney General and the Secretary of the Interior have been here since 
 1913 and were before the committee last year, but the matter was not 
 argued. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I realize that, but this seems to come up acci- 
 dentally. The Senator f^-om Oklahoma says he knows nothing about 
 the case ; that it was brought to his attention, and he brings it up here 
 in the last moments of the session of this committee without our 
 attention having been called to it before. 
 
 Mr. Hurley. If you will notice from the dates of the different 
 letters in reference to it, Senator, it has not been dormant at aU; it 
 has been referred to several times. I do not believe it has ever been 
 presented to the open committee in this manner before. 
 
 The Chairman. May it not be withdrawn or postponed to another 
 day ? It is a new matter, and we could not dispose of it this morning. 
 
 Senator Owen. I am willing to withdraw the matter if the com- 
 mittee prefers that course. 
 
 The Chairman. What do you say. Senators ? What is your 
 pleasure? Obviously we can not dispose of it now. We have not 
 the information. 
 
 We have remaining our Sioux treaty item, an item regarding the 
 per capita distribution to the Choctaws and Chickasaws. On page 
 63 of the bUl, line 11, is an amendment proposed by the Senator from 
 North Dakota, commencing with the word "and." 
 
 Senator Gronna. It was read yesterday. I want to ask you if 
 the Senator from Mississippi has been notified. 
 
 The Chairman. Last evening I requested that Senator Williams 
 be present, and he said he thought he would be unable to be present 
 and requested me to state to the committee that he wns none the 
 less interested because of his inability to be present. We have tele- 
 phoned him this morning, and he wiU not be able to be here until 
 after 12 o'clock. 
 
 pee capita payment, choctaws and chickasaws. 
 
 Senator Owen. We tried to get him in here yesterday, and we tried 
 to get Senator Vardaman here, and neither gentleman came for some 
 reason which I do not know, but I wanted particularly to ask them, in 
 the presence of this committee, if it was not a fact that the agreement 
 of July 1, 1902, in section 41 was not a compromise agreement and a 
 final settlement of the claims of the Choctaws hving in Mississippi. 
 
 The facts were that the full bloods in Mississippi, some of whom were 
 descended from the fourteenth-article claimants and some of whom 
 were descended from the nineteenth-article claimants, and some full- 
 blood Indians there who might or might not bo of Choctaw blood, 
 that is Creeks or Seminoles, or Chickasaws, yet speaking Choctaw 
 and intermarried with Choctaws in some cases— I do not know 
 about that, there being other tribes in the Mississippi VaUey affiliated 
 and connected with them who might be full bloods of other races of 
 blood and stiU claim to be Choctaws by near association with them 
 and speaking that language. In the Mobile Basm there was a 
 number of bands, includmg the Creeks and the Semmoles and the 
 
646 IKDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Chickasaws, and when they would get together in groups why they 
 would speak the language in common; many Creeks womd speak 
 Choctaw and Choctaws would speak Creek, where they interchanged 
 and Hved with each other. It is not conclusive evidence that a man 
 is a Choctaw because he speaks the Choctaw language. Many white 
 men can speak Choctaw. 
 
 The first step that was taken in this matter was to present the case 
 to the Dawes Commission under the authority of Congress in 1896, 
 when Congress authorized the Dawes Commission to make up the 
 rolls of the Five Tribes. I presented the case of the Mississippi fuU- 
 blood Choctaws myself under the head of Jack Amos and 97 others 
 to the Dawes Commission at Vinita in September, 1896, urging them 
 to enroll these people because they were fuU bloods and spoke the 
 Choctaw language, and because they were generally recognized as 
 Choctaws, and because under the fourteenth article it was provided 
 that those who had complied with certain conditions in the fourteenth 
 article in 1830 and had remained in Mississippi did not thereby forfeit 
 their rights as Choctaws, but if they should ever remove thereafter 
 they should not have any right to participate in the annuities. That 
 is the meaning of the fourteenth article. 
 
 The fourteenth-article claimants who remained in 1830 were granted 
 640 acres apiece, for adults, of land in Mississippi, an important advan- 
 tage which was not given to those who moved West. Those who 
 moved West did not get the 640 acres. And more than that, the 
 head of the family was given 320 acres for each child between 10 and 
 21, and 160 acres additional for every child under 10 years of age, so 
 that each adult was entitled to receive probably somewhere in the 
 neighborhood of 1,000 acres, something more than that, which the 
 western Choctaws did not get, and that advantage to the Mississippi 
 Choctaws ought to be kept in mind in considering the question of 
 mere common fairness between these contending parties. 
 
 The Dawes Commission, on December 1, 1896, turned down the 
 application of Jack Amos on the ground that they had not moved to 
 the West; really on the ground of nonresidence. There had been a 
 suit in which this question — the effect of nonresidence on Indian citi- 
 zenship — had been decided in the Supreme Court of the United States. 
 It was brought on behalf of the eastern Cherokees, who are full bloods 
 remaining in the East and who claimed rights in the Cherokee Nation 
 West, because they were full-blood Cherokees and because they spoke 
 the Cherokee language, etc., and the United States Supreme Court in 
 that case held that where they had not moved with the tribe to the 
 West, that they were not entitled to citizenship unless they should 
 go into the western country and become residents of the tribe and be 
 accepted by the tribe under the rules relating to the admission to 
 citizenship. The Dawes Commission, in rejecting on December 1, 
 1896, the claim of Jack Amos and others to enrollment as full-blood 
 Mississippi Choctaws, claiming under the fourteenth article, really 
 were influenced by this decision and practice of the United States 
 Supreme Court. They did so without giving any written explana- 
 tion. They just said "denied" on a blank printed form, givmg no 
 specified written reasons; but that was the real reason which moved 
 them. 
 
 It has been the general practice of the United States to regard as 
 aliens to the tribe members who voluntarily separate themselves from 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 647 
 
 the tribe — as in case of all of the members of the Five Tribes who 
 remained east of the Mississippi River, who, by the act of June 28, 
 1898, were expressly excluded from citizenship where such applicants 
 had not previously to that date established bona fide residence in the 
 tribe m which he claimed the right of citizenship. (24 Stats., 390, 
 sec. 6.) From the decision of the Dawes Commission I appealed to 
 the United States Court for Indian Territory, and Judge W. W. H. 
 Cla,yton upheld the decision and held in the Amos case that non- 
 residence was a fatal bar to admission to citizenship. This decision 
 of Judge Clayton was sustained by the Supreme Court of the United 
 States as final under the jurisdictional act. 
 
 I then prayed Congress to enroll them anyway, and a compromise 
 was reached on the appropriation bill, by Senator Walthall, pre- 
 senting to Congress, on February 23, 18!^)7, a proposal to enroll 
 these full-blood Mississippi Choctaws. Mr. Pettigrew was then the 
 chairman of the committee and he was unwilling to make this sum- 
 mary enrollment, naturally enough, and he proposed that the Dawes 
 Commission should be instructed to make a full report of the facts 
 and on the law in regard to it. The Dawes Commission did so in 
 the following year, January, 1898, and reported that these full-blood 
 Mississippi Choctaws would be entitled to enrollment in the Choctaw 
 country West 
 
 Provided — First, that they should establish through some com- 
 petent, authorized tribunal that their ancestors had complied with 
 the conditions of the fourteenth article, and 
 
 Second, that they themselves were the lineal descendants of these 
 ancestors, and 
 
 Third, that they should remove to the Choctaw country West and 
 establish bona fide residence there. 
 
 Congress, on June 28, 1898, passed what is known as the "Curtis 
 Act," m which the principle was broadly declared along the- line of 
 the Supreme Court decision in the North Carolina Cherokee case, 
 declaring that all persons who had not established bona fide resi- 
 dence previously to June 28, 1898, in the nation in which he claimed 
 the rignt of citizenship should be barred by that fact. Some of my 
 own kin people were barred by that rule; the family was divided; 
 half of my aunt's children were admitted to the rolls and half ex- 
 cluded from the rolls on the ground that half had established resi- 
 dence and hah had not, and that rule was the general rule through 
 the Five Civilized Tribes, with the sole temporary exception of the 
 Mississippi Choctaws. A provision was made as to them temporarily 
 excluding them from the operation of the general rule applying to 
 the Five Civilized Tribes, to the eft'ect that this provision of the 
 Curtis biU should not then apply to the Mississippi Choctaws. 
 
 The Dawes Commission having made their report on January 28, 
 1898, then Congress in the Curtis Act provided that the Dawes Com- 
 missi'onshould identify those who were entitled under the rule laid down 
 by the report of the Dawes Commission. They proceeded to identify 
 and went to Mississippi and identified some 1,923 of them, reporting 
 there were 300 to 500 not so identified, but the identification was not 
 within the rule laid down by the Dawes Commission. They simply 
 declared that within three weeks they found that these people were 
 unable to prove (1) that their ancestors had comphed with the con- 
 ditions of the fourteenth article, and (2) they found also that they 
 
6i8 INDIAN APPKOPKIATlON BILL. 
 
 kept no family records and they had no patronymics, so they could 
 not trace themselves by families; they just called themselves Bill and 
 Tom and Harry and names of that kind that did not indicate any- 
 thing in the way of a family relationship, so they were not able to 
 show that they were the hneal descendants of anybody 70 years back. 
 For that reason their testimony fell down in two vital points—first, 
 that their ancestors could not be shown to have comphed with the 
 fourteenth article, and, in the second place, that they were the lineal 
 descendants of such ancestors. In view of those circumstances the 
 Dawes Commission said that they thought under the circumstances 
 the best thing they could do would be just simply to report on a 
 schedule those that appeared to be full bloods, or substantially full 
 bloods, and they did that, making up this list of 1,923 and odd people. 
 Imniodiately after that the Chickasaw national authorities raised the 
 point that they were deeply interested in the question as to whether 
 or not the citizenship rolls of the Choctaws and Chickasaws should be 
 enlarged, and that they had had no notice of the taking of this testi- 
 mony in Mississippi with regard to the putting of 1,923 Mississippi 
 Choctaws on those rolls, and that their rights would be very substan- 
 tially diminished if the Choctaws put on the schedule in Mississippi 
 should be actually eni-olled as citizens, and that they had the right 
 to be heard before a very large amount of property should be thus 
 distributed and diverted from them. The property which these Mis- 
 sissippi Choctaws ultimately got by the agreement of 1902 was fairly 
 estimated to be worth from $12,000,000 to $15,000,000. 
 
 They raised the point that the Chickasaw governor was entitled to 
 be notified and that the Chickasaw Nation was entitled to be present 
 to cross-question witnesses who had testified in regard to the right of 
 these persons to enrollment on the schedule of March 10, 1899, or to 
 estabhsh their claim of being Choctaws at all, and that view, it seems, 
 ultimately prevailed. The Dawes Commission afterwards notified 
 both the Choctaw governor and the Chickasaw governor whenever 
 they took any testimony bearing upon the application of a person for 
 enrollment, either as a Choctaw or as a Chickasaw. It must be 
 remembered that the Choctaws and the Chickasaws own this property 
 jointly, the Choctaws having a tliree-fourths interest and the Chicka- 
 saws a one-fourth interest, that therefore it was one comjnon undi- 
 vided interest. The Dawes Commission thereupon went back to 
 Mississippi and made a very careful examination of all these cases. 
 They reexamined every case that they had previously enrolled, almost 
 without exception, all of those that they could reach, 1,800 in number, 
 and finally they made a report on the 19th of May, 1902, that they 
 had with great pains examined into this evidence very completely, 
 and that they had ascertained that very few of these persons could 
 prove that their ancestors had complied with the fourteenth article, 
 and that very few of them could prove that they were the lineal de- 
 scendants of persons entitled to enrollment; that they could not tell 
 whether they were the descendants of nineteenth-article claimants or 
 fourteenth-article claimants. The nineteenth-article claimants did 
 not have the rights that were supposed to be granted to the fourteenth- 
 article claimants. 
 
 The consequence was that when the Choctaws and Chickasaws dis- 
 covered that this vital defect existed in the evidence which the Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws were able to give concerning their own rights, their 
 
INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 649 
 
 legal rights to enrollment, they modified their views substantially in 
 regard to admitting any more Choctaws from Mississippi. In the 
 first place the Choctaw authorities west on February 7, 1901, were 
 wilhng to recognize the schedule of 1899, and did so in the proposed 
 agreement of that date, but when they found that that was not bind- 
 ing upon them and that they could avoid it, they insisted upon modi- 
 fying the proposed agreement with the United States for windiag up 
 the affahs of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations West, and insisted 
 that ia enrolling Mississippi Choctaws the schedule should enroll only 
 Mississippi Choctaws "duly identified" by the Dawes Commission, 
 and upon the term "duly" they put the strict construction that it 
 was to be done according to the due forms of legal evidence, a showing 
 that they had a legal right by competent testimony; that their ances- 
 tors had comphed with the conditions of the fourteenth article in the 
 first place, and, in the second place, that they were the lineal descend- 
 ants of such ancestors. 
 
 After the treaty of 1830, no proper record having been made of the 
 fourteenth-article claimants at the time by the agent then in charge, 
 a man named Ward, who did not discharge his duty properly by mak- 
 ing proper enrollment of them, the Government tried to amend that 
 omission by Ward by sending two commissioners, Murray and Vroom, 
 to find out what the truth was in regard to these Choctaws, and they 
 enrolled 4,100 of them, who actually should have been classified by 
 Agent Ward as fourteenth-article claimants, and the Government then 
 agreed to give scrip to these fourteenth-article Choctaws, and the 
 effect of it finally was that about 4,100 of them moved out West. 
 They got the scrip and moved out West. 
 
 The number, however, having been enlarged by childbirth — the 
 natural increase of a community — some of them nevertheless re- 
 mained, but whether those remaining after 70 years were fourteenth or 
 nineteenth article claimants, nobody really knows. That is a mere sur- 
 mise, with the chances in favor of their being fourteenth article claim- 
 ants, but with no absolute certainty about it. The consequence was 
 that those representing the Mississippi Choctaws, being very anxious to 
 get them recognized, strongly opposed the attitude of the Choctaws 
 and Chickasaws west, demanding the provision that only the 
 Mississippi Choctaws, "duly identified," might be enrolled, because 
 they knew that an interpretation of that language "duly identified" 
 would ehminate most of the Mississippi Choctaws, and they insisted 
 upon some rule that would recognize the Mississippi Choctaws 
 definitely. For that reason Senator Harris, of Kansas, at my in- 
 stance, submitted a proposed amendment recognizing the schedule 
 made in 1899 of these 1,923 Mississippi Choctaws. It is known as the 
 schedule of March 10, 1899. He also proposed that those who were 
 of the fuU blood should be recognized and those who were the 
 children of full bloods, up to the degree of one-eighth blood, which 
 was a Choctaw rule established under my suggestion, in 1886, when 
 United States agent supervising the Choctaws. The attorneys repre- 
 senting the Choctaws and Chickasaws west, of course, were violently 
 opposed to the Harris amendment, because they did not wish to 
 enlarge the number of these distributees, and they were representing 
 (June, 1902) the distributees who were already on the inside of the 
 breastworks and who were entitled to their distributive parts of this 
 property, and they vigorously opposed any arbitrary rule which might 
 
650 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 be urged in favor of the Mississippi Choctaws on the theory of general 
 benevolence or humanity. 
 
 They insisted that the benevolence of the United States should be 
 exercised out of its own Treasury and not at their expense. The con- 
 sequence was that a compromise was effected in June, 1902, by amend- 
 ing the Choctaw-Chickasaw agreement then pending, which, as first 
 drawn, when submitted to Congress, March 24, 1902, in sections 41, 
 42, 43, and 44, provided for Mississippi Choctaws "duly identified." 
 The consequence was that the attorney representing these people, 
 Mr. J. F. McMurray, drew an amendment providing for the enroll- 
 ment of those who were full-blood Indians as a rule of evidence only, 
 that they might be enrolled as a rule of evidence as fourteenth article 
 Choctaws. That did not even include the children of fourteenth 
 article Choctaws who were fuU bloods if they were of mixed blood 
 and under its operation. The mixed-blood children of full-blood 
 Mississippi Choctaws were excluded from the Choctaw rolls west, 
 although the parent was enrolled. I thought it rather a harsh rule 
 to be so stringent, but it was the best compromise that could be 
 effected, and I was glad to be able to get that measure of rehef for my 
 clients, who otherwise would have been almost entirely excluded. 
 Mr. McMurray took that draft and went over and saw Mr. Willis Van 
 Devanter, who was then the assistant attorney general of the Interior 
 Department, and is now on the Supreme Court bench, and he brought 
 it back and submitted it to Hon. John S. Williams, who was then 
 representing Mississippi in the lower House of Congress, through Mr. 
 Charles Curtis, then in charge of the biU, and Mr. WiUiams and the 
 other friends of the Mississippi Choctaws accepted it, because it was 
 the best they could get. That was as far as the Choctaws and Chicka- 
 sawa west would go, and it was the best arrangement that could 
 be obtained for the final settlement of the Mississippi Choctaw con- 
 troversy. Mr. Curtis then presented this on the floor of the House, 
 and it became a part of the Choctaw-Chickasaw agreement without 
 any friend of the Mississippi Choctaws on the floor of the House or 
 in the United States Senate making any further objections or any 
 further fight in regard to it, and it was adopted as a compromise 
 settlement of a then six-year contest. 
 
 Recently, a letter was written by the chairman of this committee 
 to Mr. McMurray with regard to this matter, and Mr. McMurray 
 wrote a letter setting up substantially these facts with regard to that 
 agreement of 1902, and stating flatly that it was a compromise 
 settlement of this controversy. The same thing was testified to by 
 the governor of the Chickasaw Nation, Mr. Douglas H. Johnson, and 
 also by Mr. Wflliam H. Murray, who is a member of Congress now, 
 and who was an active representative citizen of the Chickasaw Nation 
 at that time, and who defended the Choctaw-Chickasaw agreement 
 before the Choctaws and Chickasaws in the country west, asking 
 them to approve it on the ground that that was the best settlement 
 that could be made to effect a compromise and adjustment of this 
 controversy. These letters are in part 2 of these hearings, pp. 105-108. 
 
 Therefore now to ask that tliis question should be revived after 
 the Mississippi Choctaws, by the agreement of 1902 in and through 
 a compromise settlement were allowed to have an enrollment of 
 1,634 of their number, and to have received property valued at 
 between 112,000,000 and $15,000,000; after this matter had been 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 651 
 
 passed on by seven different authorities, each time settUng it the same 
 way substantially : 
 
 First. The Dawes Commission first, December 1, 1896, deciding it 
 adversely on the ground that they were nonresidents; second, the 
 Dawes Commission in a later report, directed by Congress January 
 28, 1908, declaring that they were not entitled to remove unless they 
 should prove three things, first, that their ancestors complied with 
 the 14th article, second, that they were the lineal descendants of 
 such ancestors. 
 
 Third. Judge Clayton decided in 1907 on appeal (he having been 
 the authority under act of Congress to sit as a court of appeal on 
 citizenship cases), and he decided against the Mississippi Choctaw 
 contention. 
 
 Fourth. Then it was appealed to the Sufireme Court of the United 
 States on the question of Judge Clayton's opinion being a finality, 
 and the Supreme Court held, not passing upon the merits, but passing 
 upon the jurisdictional right of Judge Clayton's court — held that his 
 decision was final in the premises. 
 
 Fifth. Then the matter came up again before Congress and was 
 settled by Congress in this compromise settlement of July 1, 1902, 
 and then, finally (sixth), it came up before the Interior Department 
 again, and was settled by the administrative officers, the Commis- 
 sioner of Indian Affairs, the Secretary of the Interior by the Attorney 
 General of the United States, and appeal after appeal having been 
 allowed and (seventh), the matter having been finally settled by 
 Congress in 1906 by the closing of the rolls as of March 4, 1907, eight 
 years ago now, in which the Congress declared that no further name 
 should be put upon any of these rolls by the Secretary of the Interior; 
 and in addition to that (eighth), which does seem ought to settle the 
 matter, only last year we put about 400 additional names on the 
 rolls of the Five Civilized Tribes, including every name that the 
 Secretary of the Interior after searching these records with a fine- 
 tooth comb could find in seven years — we put on every name that he 
 said was entitled to enrollment, even as an equitable right. So that 
 to reopen these roUs now and to undertake to give the Court of 
 Claims a jurisdiction de novo 
 
 Senator GEONNA..Were any of those put on last year? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; just a few. 
 
 Senator White. Were they residents of Mississippi? 
 
 Senator Owen. No; they were Mississippi Choctaws who had moved 
 
 out West. 
 
 Senator White. They were m Oklahoma? They were m the 
 
 Choctaw country, were they ? • i , t 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not know whether you were m here when 1 
 called attention to the principle always recognized by the United 
 States the prmciple of actual residence as a basis of citizenship and 
 decision in the Cherokee case of the Supreme Court, that the only 
 way the North Carolina full-blood Cherokees could enjoy participa- 
 tion in the Cherokee country west was by actually removing to the 
 Cherokee country west, becoming a part of the community and recog- 
 nized under the law as Cherokee citizens. That was the decision of 
 the United States Supreme Court. Then there was the act of Con- 
 gress afterwards on June 28, 1898, when Congress declared that no 
 person claiming citizenship under the Five Tribes should be recog- 
 
652 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 nized as entitled to citizenship in any tribe unless he had previously- 
 established bona fide residence in the nation in which he claimed 
 citizenship. That was in accordance with that decision of the 
 Supreme Court in the Cherokee case, but a temporary exception was 
 made as to Mississippi Choctaws in the Curtis bill of June 28, 1898, 
 because under the fourteenth article it was strenuously urged they 
 had some special right to consideration. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Have these Mississippi Choctaws, who are 
 now claiming rights, at any time received any lands or any considera- 
 tion from the hands of the Government ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Those persons of supposed Choctaw blood who are 
 at present living in Mississippi may be the descendants either of the 
 fourteenth-article claimants or the nineteenth-article claimants, in 
 either of which cases they got certain lands in Mississippi. Under the 
 nineteenth article on the ground that they had cultivated fields those 
 who had cultivated fields, about 1,050 of them, were given a special 
 grant of land because they had cultivated fields. Then 4,000 claim- 
 ants who were not properly enrolled by the agent at that time, Mr. 
 Ward, but who were afterwards enrolled by Murray and Vroom and 
 were given 640 acres each, or, in lieu thereof, scrip which entitled 
 them to United States land anyTvhere 
 
 Senator Townsend. Are any of these 4,000 now asking to be 
 enrolled ? 
 
 Senator Owen. We do not really know how that is. There were 
 about 4,100 who were on Murray and Vroom's roU, and about 4,100 
 moved West, but some additions were made by the increase of the 
 community who might be the descendants of those 4,100 original 
 claimants, but we have no means of determining whether or not they 
 are descendants of nineteenth-article claimants or fourteenth-article, 
 nor indeed could we tell absolutely whether they are of Choctaw 
 blood or not. The presumption merely would be in their favor. 
 
 Seantor Lane. Have any of them realized anything on this scrip ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not know whether they did or not. I suppose 
 many of them handled it in the way careless or improvident people 
 might do. 
 
 Senator Lane. Were there any lands available for them to file on ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; the public domain throughout the United 
 States prior to the war was very extensive. They could have filed 
 on anything, pretty nearly, west of the Mississippi River if they 
 wanted to. 
 
 Senator Lane. But they did not as a rule get anything ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I think they sold the scrip, probably, and con- 
 verted it into money. 
 
 Senator White. Land scrip at that time was not very valuable ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I suppose not. 
 
 Senator White. I want to ask you one question. Those given land 
 that had cultivated fields, that meant the field itself, or the adjoining- 
 land, did it not? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; they took their own field, and then took lands 
 contiguous thereto, amoimtiag to various areas up to four sections, 
 for some of the head men. 
 
 Senator White. That was poor land, was it not? 
 
 Senator Owen. I should think the land was as desirable as any in 
 Mississippi, because they found it fit for cultivation. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 653 
 
 Senator White. They are living in a very poor section of the State. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not know anything about their present resi- 
 dence. But there was another article by which as much as four 
 sections were given to certain captains, or leaders, but they were a 
 small number; comparatively few. 
 
 Senator White. Do you know from where those lands were taken, 
 from what section of the State ? 
 
 Senator Owen. No; I do not. But I do not think this amend- 
 ment sought by Senator WiUiams ought to be pressed. It is not 
 reaUy just. It is not equitable. It is not fair. It is not fair to 
 the Choctaws west. It is a violation of the compromise settlement 
 of 1902, agreed to by the very Senator (WiUiams) who was then in 
 the House of Representatives, and accepted the compromise as a 
 settlement of this identical controversy 13 years ago. These per- 
 sons down there have had their opportunity, and the opportunity 
 extended from 1896 to 1907, or, at least from 1896, the time these 
 rolls were opened up, to the time when the Dawes Commission con- 
 cluded the examination of those who might see fit to appear under 
 the act of 1902, because they were given the positive right to make 
 application within six months after the agreement of 1902 was 
 concluded, and then have six months additional time after actual 
 subsequent identification. That is to say, they could stiU make 
 application up to January, 1902. Having already had six years 
 before that period in which to make application, they were still 
 given the further limit (six months) of time in which to make appli- 
 cation after the Dawes Commission had been over in Mississippi 
 for months and months, and from time to time from 1899 to 1902, 
 to give them an opportunity to make application. But they were 
 still given six montfo more after July 1, 1902, and then six months 
 in which to remove at some future time after identification. 
 
 Senator White. What were the conditions under which they were 
 allowed to enroll % 
 
 Senator Owen. The conditions were they should simply prove 
 that they were full-blood Choctaws and move West. That is a 
 very simple and easy condition. And the next condition was they 
 should move out West and live there and prove that they had com- 
 phed. with those conditions. I do not think there is any justifica- 
 tion whatever in this proposal to reopen those roUs or to give another 
 court a right de novo to rehear this seven times settled controversy. 
 I should like to ask the judgment of the committee and move that 
 the proposed amendment be rejected. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on the amendment proposed by 
 the Senator from North Dakota. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I should like to hear from the Assistant Com- 
 missioner, whether he has anything to say on that amendment. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on the amendment proposed by 
 the Senator from North Dakota. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I would hke to hear if the assistant commis- 
 sioner has anything to say on this amendment proposed by me. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This question of enrollment has been up for a number 
 of years and there have been a number of volumes printed on the 
 subject. I do not care to make any further statement in the matter. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on the amendment. 
 
 Senator Page. Is not this the important matter now remaining 1 
 
654 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. It is important; I assume it is important. It is, 
 in my judgment. 
 
 Senator Page. I wish we might have a little fuller meetmg of our 
 committee when we pass upon this. 
 
 Senator Owen. We will never -have any fuller attendance than we 
 have now. We have over 12 members present. I would like to have 
 a roll call on it. 
 
 The Chaikman. The question is on. the amendment proposed by 
 the Senator from North Dakota, Mr. Gronna. 
 
 Senator Owen. I move that the proposed amendment be rejected. 
 
 Senator White. I would be glad to have the amendment read and 
 the provision to which it applies. 
 
 The Chairman. The House of Representatives in the bill which 
 passed provided for a per capita payment of $200 to each Choctaw 
 and $100 to each Chickasaw Indian, ouL of the funds belonging to those 
 Indians. The Senator from North Dakota has proposed the»following 
 amendment which is found commencing with the word "and" on 
 line 11, page 63, and which reads as follows: 
 
 And provided further, however, That the Court of Claims is hereby granted jurisdic- 
 tion to try and decide the following questions of difference arising out of treaty stipula- 
 tions between the United States Government and the Choctaw Nation: First, whether 
 any identified or unidentified Choctaw Indians of the full blood or with one-half 
 Choctaw blood, who now live in Mississippi, and whose names do not now appear 
 upon the final rolls of the Choctaw Nation, are now entitled to any privileges of Choc- 
 taw citizens, or any legal or equitable rights in the tribal property of the Choctaw 
 Nation in Oklahoma. Second, and whether they have any legal or equitable claims 
 against the Government of the United States. That said Court of Claims, in trying 
 and deciding said questions, is hereby granted authority to consider the actions of 
 the Choctaw Nation, the treaties between the Choctaw Nation and the United States 
 Government, the laws passed by Congress, the decisions of commissioners and judg- 
 ments of courts, and to try and decide the entire questions of difference de novo. 
 That any claimant, as a Mississippi Choctaw, who is now upon the final rolls of the 
 Choctaw Nation, shall have the right for and on behalf of himself, and any other 
 claimants as Mississippi Choctaws, to begin the ascertainment of the judgment of the 
 Court of Claims on said questions by filing in the Court of Claims a petition stating 
 the facts upon which said Mississippi Choctaws base their claims to enrollment upon 
 the final rolls of the Choctaw Nation, and in all respects the rules and practices of the 
 Court of Claims shall be followed, and the Court of Claims shall give said case, when 
 filed, preference on the docket and shall transmit its findings to the Congress of the 
 United States. 
 
 The secretary will call the roU. 
 
 Senator Lane. Before we take a vote on that I want to ask for 
 some information. Is that satisfactory to the department? Do you 
 think this wUl settle it equitably and justly? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The department has not passed on this amendment 
 and has not submitted a report upon it. 
 
 Senator Lane. It has no opinion to express on it ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not know that I care to make that statement. 
 We submitted our estimates for the per capita payment of $200 to 
 the Choctaws and $100 to theChickasaws. We are in favor of that 
 item in the bill and have submitted justifications for it. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is it satisfactory to Senator Williams? 
 
 Senator Gronna. I wiH state that the amendment was drawn by 
 Senator Williams. I offered the amendment at his request. 
 
 The Chairman. The committeeyesterday sent for Senator Williams, 
 but he did not respond. 
 
 Senator Lane. I heard that. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 655 
 
 The Chairman. Later on I met him and told him we would take 
 this matter up, and he said he did not believe he would be able to be 
 present, but he did not wish his absence to be construed as any lack 
 of interest in the proposition. 
 
 Senator Lane. This is the amendment? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Lane. And it wiU settle it, and it will go to the Court of 
 Claims, and they will settle the matter. 
 
 Senator Owen. I am very strongly opposed to it. The Secretary 
 of the Interior has reported adversely on reopening these rolls. I 
 hare put his opniion in the record of these hearings here for the 
 information of the committee. The House of Representaives heard 
 this matter at great length and took eight hundred and odd pages of 
 evidence that was heard by the committee, and the House committee 
 decided against it. Those rolls have been now closed for eight years, 
 and we are very much opposed to any proposed reopening of the roUs. 
 
 Senator Myers. Let me understand the question we are to vote 
 upon. I understand that Senator Owen moves that the amendment 
 be rejected. 
 
 Senator Owen. Let us have a vote on Senator Gronna's amend- 
 ment. 
 
 Senator Myers. The motion is to adopt the amendment? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. 
 
 Senator White. It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that the question 
 could very well be divided — that the Court of Claims is authorized to 
 ascertain whether there is any claim, legal or equitable, against the 
 Government of the United States, as weU as any right to citizenship 
 in the Choctaw Nation. 
 
 Senator Townsend. As far as I am concerned, I have from the 
 b eginning 
 
 Senator White. One moment. I will make one other suggestion. 
 I think, myseK, that these Indians have some equitable claim against 
 the Government of the United States. I doubt very much whether 
 they have any right to participate with the Choctaws west on account 
 of want of affiliation and probably inability to prove strictly that they 
 are Choctaws. But they are Indians who have lived there and have 
 been good people as far as I know. They are very poor and the 
 Government owes them something. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I just want to make a statement very briefly. 
 I have been very much in favor ever since I have been a member of 
 this committee of having the committee determine its legal and 
 equitable duties, if I may classify them as such, to the Indians. I 
 have felt that certain Indians who had been investigated and had 
 not been placed on the rolls should be placed there, and the motion 
 prevailed last year to that effect. , t 1 1 i t 
 
 I have been looking into this matter as best I could and i am not 
 clear at all that if we pass this provision we wiU forward the final dis- 
 tribution or the final settlement of the tribal affairs. I am doubtful 
 about it. ' I think there is a pretty good chance for some injustice 
 and serious injustice to be done the Indians who are recognized as 
 entitled to be on the roll if we adopt this amendment. It is a question 
 with me as to where the justice Hes. So I am satisfied that this year 
 I shall not vote to open these rolls and prolong the misery that has 
 obtained for years in regard to this matter. 
 
656 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. I want to make an observation, and that is this: 
 It seems to me, as near as I can make it out — I am not alawyer — that 
 the whole blame attaches to the Government through a representative 
 sent down there by the name of Ward, who failed to enroll these 
 people, and lots of them were 
 
 Senator Owen. That fault was amended by Murray & Groom. 
 
 Senator Lane. Murray & Groom were authorized to make it? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; they enrolled 4,100 of them. 
 
 Senator Lane. They corrected that, but that seems to always come 
 up, that a man nanied Ward failed to do his duty. 
 
 Senator Owen. The Government corrected that. 
 
 Senator Lane. They did it fully ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; fiilly as possible by enrolling 4,100 of them. 
 
 Senator Lane. I understood Senator Williams does not beMeve 
 that; he contends otherwise. 
 
 Senator Thompson. There were 4,100 enrolled. 
 
 Senator Lane. I know he said that did not correct it. Other 
 Senators have suggested that that was a just claim against the 
 Government, a certaui amount of this, and if that could be corrected 
 it ought in fairness to be done. The Government ought to stand that, 
 and that would save the Choctaws and the claim from being made 
 that it is something which they should not be punished for. 
 
 The Chairman. If the committee wishes to segregate the question 
 they have the right to do it, but the chair feels that the amendment 
 is an entirety as to this particular item. So we will call the roll. 
 
 The vote having been taken on the amendment proposed by 
 Senator Gronna, resulted yeas 2, nays 9, as follows: 
 
 Yeas, Senators Lane and Gronna; nays, Senators Myers, Robia- 
 son, Thompson, Townsend, Owen, White, Clapp, Page, and the 
 Chairman. 
 
 So the amendment was not agreed to. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on adopting the House provision. 
 
 Senator Lane. What is the House provision? 
 
 The Chairman. To pay the Choctaws $200 each and the Chicka- 
 saws 1100. 
 
 Senator Page. I would like to say a word on that. The other day 
 you will remember we opened up a new case, the Stockbridge Indians, 
 that had remained dormant for some 30 or 40 years. We found that 
 the Indians had a small fund left, but that in order to equalize the 
 funds, or the money of the Indians, we must take from the Federal 
 Treasury some $80,000 — am I right about that, Mr. Meritt, in the 
 Stockbridge case ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. $90,000. 
 
 Senator Page. $90,000. Now, I have felt as we have approached 
 these matters that there ought to be some way in which there may be 
 an adjustment that wiU be final. I have been told in regard to this 
 case— with what truth I do not know, but by men who seem to be 
 candid — that just as certain as the sun rises and sets there is going to 
 be an application for the admission of other Indians, and if they are 
 admitted it means that a very large sum will have to be taken from 
 the Federal Treasury. As to the right or the wrong of the motion 
 before us I am not at all certain it is not right ; I rather think it is but 
 I feel, as one member of this committee, that we ought to discuss 
 among ourselves what protection we are going to give the Federal 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 657 
 
 Treasury; what we are going to do, if, as they say certainly will be 
 T^^ — ^^*®^ distributing this money which we are going to distribute— 
 what assurances we are going to have that the money will be used so 
 that there will be no cause for complaint that the Federal Treasury 
 is going to be called on year after year to make up deficiencies in the 
 respective claims against the Indian tribe or against the Federal 
 Treasury. 
 
 I have said to Senator Owen that I feel no hostility to his measure 
 here, but I do feel as though some sort of protection ought to be made 
 against this everlasting opening of the Federal Treasury to these 
 claims and charges, and I do want to say before we pass from this 
 matter that I have been appealed to by those who thmk differently 
 from Senator Owen, and I vote against it because of the fact that if 
 we are now taking in a few more there are just as good claims of others 
 as there are of those who have recently been taken in. Will not 
 Senator Owen place himself upon record by saying what he thinks 
 may be done ; if there is not something that can be done to protect it ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I will be rejoiced to do so. 
 
 Senator Lane. Please give us some light on the subject. 
 
 Senator Owen. In order to have finality in these cases, when we 
 have once decided a case by a competent tribunal we ought to stand 
 firmly by that decision and not permit it to be set aside on any 
 ground whatever, except the ground of fraud. Now, instead of this 
 Mississippi Choctaw case being decided once, it has been decided over 
 and over and over again - first, by the Dawes Comnnr^sion on December 
 1, 1896, when they denied Jack Amos on the ground of nonresidence ; 
 secondly, it was decided by Judge Clayton on tln^ ground of non- 
 residence; thirdly, it vcas decided by the Dawes Commission again 
 when they went under instructions of Congress in the Indian appro- 
 priation act of 1897 and made their report on January 28, 1898, in 
 which they declared that nonresidence would be a bar. It was 
 decided by the Supreme Court of the United States in the Emma 
 Nabors case. It was decided by Congress in the act of AI;i,y 31, 
 1900. Finally, it was decided by a compromise in Congress July 1, 
 1902, in which those who are full bloods were permitted, as a rule of 
 evidence, to be regarded as fourteenth-article claimants whether 
 they were fourteenth-article claimants or not. 
 
 The Chairman. Senator, if you will pardon me, may you not add 
 justly, and by four Secretaries of the Interior ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; and administratively by four Secretaries of 
 the Interior since. In 1902, now 14 years ago, we made that com- 
 promise settletnent after a 6-years' fight, and thereafter, on March 
 4, 1907, Congress, after 11 years of controversy, heard this citizen- 
 ship question and decided those roUs should be closed on the 4th of 
 March, 1907, and should not thereafter be reopened. Nevertheless, 
 out of an abundant spirit of caution and generosity, if you please, 
 Congress thereafter— last year— enrolled some 400 who were reported 
 by the Secretary of the Interior as having, in his opmion, some 
 equitable right. . . ^ v r n 
 
 Now, the question is, when you ask my opmion about fanality, shall 
 we stand by adjudicated cases ? Shall we support a decision when 
 it has been heard so abundantly and finally decided by the highest 
 authority, or shall we tear it down and reopen it? If you agree to 
 
 82833 — ^VOL 1 — 15 42 
 
658 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 reopen such a final judgment evidently there is no stability in any 
 judgment of any kind, and you may open a judgment and open a 
 judgment again, and again, after it has been decided. In order to 
 have stability in any judgment you must firmly stand by the judg- 
 ment when made by a competent tribunal, unless there is proven 
 fraud. 
 
 Now, I want to call your attention to another side of the case. 
 Here these Choctaws and Chickasaws, who had an independent gov- 
 ernment of their own, who were very deeply attached to their self- 
 government, and had a large area which they enjoyed as their home, 
 who were violently opposed to breaking up their former government, 
 were induced by representations of the United States, acting through 
 the Dawes Commission, to surrender their self-government and give 
 up their legislature, give up their judges of the courts, give up their 
 sheriffs, their county management, their national government, in 
 exchange for a declaration solemnly made by the representatives of 
 the Congress of the United States through the Dawes Commission, 
 headed by the great and honorable Senator from Massachusetts, that 
 they would distribute the proceeds of this property equitably among 
 these people if they would consent to the change. That was a solemn 
 pledge made by our representatives, and then confirmed by Congress 
 in 1898, and afterwards reiterated in the most solemn terms by the 
 Congress of the United States in 1902. Now, after 12 years, from 
 1902, these people, who have faithfully and patiently waited and 
 waited, can not even get $100 of their own money because soinebody 
 says that he wants to be heard again on the citizenship question, 
 which occupied 11 years, has been decided by seven different author- 
 ized tribunals, and has now actually been closed for eight years. 
 
 Senator Page. All you say appeals to the Indian side of this case. 
 Let us call that settled. I am not saying it was right or wrong. I 
 presume it was right, although since that time we have every year, 
 or nearly every year, opened and added to this list. 
 
 Senator Owen. No; we have not, my dear Senator; only in a sin- 
 gle case last year, and that was on the ground that the individuals 
 had been left off by "obvious error or inadvertence." 
 
 Senator Page. Now, suppose next year another case comes up after 
 this money has been distributed - suppose it comes up again ? 
 
 Senator Owen. It can not come up again. It never will while I 
 am in Congress if I can help it, and I do not think any other Senator 
 ought to permit it to come up if he is truly desirous of maintaining 
 the principle of stare decisis once rendered finally by a competent 
 authorized tribunal. 
 
 Senator Page. L'o you know of any reason why we may not open 
 this just as well as we opened the Stockbridge case? 
 
 Senator Owen. 7 do. 
 
 Senator Page. The Stockbridge case was presumed to have been 
 settled 30 or 40 years ago. 
 
 ^Senator Owen. !^f the Stockbridge case involves a reopening of rolls 
 after 30 or 40 years, I think it would be an outrage to open them. It 
 would be scandalous. 
 
 The Chairman. That is another case. There was no opposition to 
 that. The Stockbridge Indians have money due them. 
 
 Senator Page. I understand that we were presumably in duty 
 bound to distribute to these Stockbridge Indians their money. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIAnON BILL. 659 
 
 Senator Owen. I am not very familiar with the Stockbridge In- 
 dians, but I am very intimately acquainted with the Five Tribes. 
 
 Senator Page. We did distribute a fund after 30 or 40 years, and 
 the claim is made that we did not distribute it enough; we did not 
 take care of all the Indians. How many more have we found, Mr. 
 Secretary, that we are now taking care of under the present legisla- 
 tion? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. About 500 to 600 Indians are to be provided for, but 
 they have an entirely different status from the Indians of the Five 
 Civilized Tribes. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not want to open up the different statuses; I 
 simply want to say that we have made distribution until we have 
 distributed a good deal of money. Now five or six hundred more 
 come in and say that they were not properly used. What is the 
 the result ? The Indians' money has gone, and we are called upon to 
 take this from the Federal Treasury. 
 
 Senator Owen. You had no such arrangement with the Stock- 
 bridge Indians as you did with the Five Tribes. The question is. 
 Will we stand for this final decision and settlement after 11 years of 
 hearing and 8 years after the act of Congress closing the matter, or 
 will we not ? 
 
 Senator Page. My question is. Is there not some way in which we 
 can put up the bars ? 
 
 Senator Owen. You can not put up any stronger bar than you 
 have put up. Let us stand by final settlements when made. 
 
 The Chairman. You can not legislate against human avarice and 
 stupidity. 
 
 Senator Page. We really have had an almost ex parte hearing this 
 morning. The showing is a strong one on the part of Senator Owen, 
 I confess. 
 
 Senator Owen. It can not be denied. There is no point that I 
 have made that can be properly denied. 
 
 Senator Page. I am looking out for the Federal Treasury, not the 
 Indians. 
 
 Senator Owen. And I will cooperate with you in looking out for 
 the Federal Treasury. 
 
 Senator Page. It is said that they have a different status, but we 
 did pay out the Indians' money and we are now called on to pay Out 
 $90,000 more. 
 
 Senator Owen. I can not speak against ghosts, but I can speak in 
 a case here where for 11 years we have had a fully authorized tribunal 
 with appeal after appeal provided, not only from the Dawes Commis- 
 sion to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, but from the Commissioner 
 of Indian Affairs to the Secretary of the Interior, and from the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior to the Attorney General, and after 11 years of 
 controversy, from 1896 to 1907, we fmally settled this by act of Con- 
 gress, April 26, 1906, concluding it eight years ago, and I am not 
 willing to open it, and never will agree to do so. 
 
 Senator Page. In 1907 or 1908, was it not? 
 
 Senator Owen. It was in 1907; that was eight years ago. 
 
 Senator Page. You will recall that an attorney came before us and 
 
 Senator Owen. Oh, these attorneys will say most anything. I am 
 not going to be held responsible for what they say. 
 
660 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Page. They said it was a physical impossibUty for the 
 courts to hear and try and pass upon and decide these matters before 
 the 4th day of March, 1907. 
 
 Senator Owen. Oh, yes; 11 years are not long enough. They 
 ought to have eleven hundred years to settle it. 
 
 Senator Lane. I would like to say for the information of Senator 
 Page that the way the matter strikes me is this : There was an amend- 
 ment offered by Senator Gronna on behaK of Senator Williams which 
 would allow disputed questions to go to the court and be settled 
 finally and forever. There are a certain number of people who claim 
 that they have certain rights which have not been granted to them. 
 Commissions have passed upon it, and all kinds of secretaries have 
 given their opinions of it, and Attorneys General; and still there are 
 claims. These people stiU claim that an injustice has been done to 
 them. Why not allow them to go to court and settle it? They can 
 get a quick and final settlement of it; and if not, appeal it to the 
 Supreme Court of the United States and it is out of the hands of 
 Congress. If there is anything due to these people that we justly 
 owe them, they ought to be allowed a fair hearing. They are entitled 
 to that. 
 
 There were some claims which some of the Indians had against the 
 Government that had been lying dormant for, I am told, 80 or 90 
 years, and the Senator himself, before he became a Member of Con- 
 gress, or a Senator, was one of the attorneys who presented those 
 claims and put his case in and stood with them until he won out. 
 If this is a lust claim these people will recover it from this Govern- 
 ment, and if you paid out the money in the hands of the Government 
 to these other people the deficiency wiU have to be made up out of 
 the Treasury, just as you suggest, and why should we not let them 
 go to the court, and let it be settled finally by the Supreme Court? 
 It seems to me that is a very proper way to do it, and that that will 
 reheve Congress of the responsibility. 
 
 Senator Owen. Senator, just a moment. I want to answer that, 
 because I know that the Senator is saying what he sincerely believes. 
 Suppose we should pass a general rule declaring that after the Supreme 
 Court had passed on a question the litigant parties might reopen the 
 case and be heard over again. Obviously that would upset the finality 
 of all decisions. It is absolutely necessary as a matter of public 
 policy to conclude controverted questions. The very questions 
 which you say were in dispute have themselves been settled by a 
 competent tribunal. 
 
 Senator Lane. By the court? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes, by the Supreme Court in declaring Judge 
 Clayton's decision was final. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not see any reason why we should not let them 
 have their day in court. These Indians do not in many instances 
 secure their rights from Congress, for the reason that Congress is not 
 familiar with the condition which governs, and these claims are going 
 to continue to arise until Congress, which has the high and holy 
 right, compels their just claims to be paid to them, and I think the 
 courts ought to be thrown open to them and they ought to be allowed 
 to go in and settle it once and for all and have done with it. The 
 Senator has said that this will not go through as long as he sits here. 
 I think Senator Williams will fight this as long as he stays here. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 661 
 
 Suppose both of those gentlemen should die off. Then the Govern- 
 ment would be m a fix. 
 
 Senator Gronna. The Senator from Oklahoma, Mr. Owen, has 
 given the committee a great deal of valuable information. As I said 
 the other day, I introduced this amendment at the request of Senator 
 WiUiams. 1 did not familiarize myseK with the real conditions in 
 this case. I did not have time to do that, but I felt that Senator 
 Williams ought to be given an opportunity to be heard. He has, 
 however, been notified, and since he is not here I do not feel like 
 talking any more of the time of the committee than I have. I simply 
 wish to make that statement in order to show my position in the 
 matter. 
 
 The question being taken on the adoption of the item as it appears 
 in the bill resulted — ayes 8, nays 2, as follows: 
 
 Ayes — Senators Myers, Robinson, Thompson, Owen, White, Clapp, 
 Page, and the chairman. Nays — Senators Lane and Gronna. 
 
 Senator Page. I wish to say that I vote with a great big mental 
 reservation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee do 
 now adjourn until 10.30 o'clock to-morrow morning. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to, and the committee accordingly adjourned 
 until to-morrow, Saturday, February 6, 1915, at 10.30 o'dock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 1915. 
 
 Committee on Indian Apfairs, 
 
 . United States Senate, 
 
 Washington, D. G. 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Myers, Lane, Robinson, 
 Thompson, Owen, White, Clapp, Page, Gronna, and Townsend. 
 
 counsel for confederated bands of UTE INDIANS. 
 
 Senator Clapp called up for consideration the following item: 
 
 That tlie Secretary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs 
 be, and are hereby, authorized and directed to negotiate an agreement with the 
 Confederated Bands of Ute Indians for a final settlement of all of the rights, 
 claims, and demands of said Indians against the United States arising under 
 the agreement between said Indians and the United States ratified by the act 
 of June fifteenth, eighteen hundred and eighty (Twenty-first Statutes, page one 
 hundred and ninety-nine), with a view to relieving the unsold lauds, the subject 
 of said agreement, from all claims or demimds of said Indians, and to make 
 the proceeds of said lands now available as a trust fund for their present use 
 to advance their civilization, and under any l.iw or agreement with the United 
 States, which have not heretofore been adjudicated; and the Secretary of the 
 Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs shall report the result of such 
 negotiations to Congress at the earliest possible date; and there be and is 
 hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appro- 
 priated, the sum of $5,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary for said 
 purpose, to be expended under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Clapp. On page 73 of the last print of the bill there is a 
 provision for making an agreement with the United Bands of Ute 
 Indians. I think that item ought to contain the following pro- 
 visions : 
 
 That said Indians may be represented by counsel to be selected By them. 
 
 Mr. Meritt feels that the selection of the counsel ought to be ap- 
 proved by the Secretary of the Interior. I do not think the Sec- 
 retary ought to have any voice in the selection of the counsel. I 
 think if the law is not sufficiently plain now the provision to be in- 
 serted ought to provide that no contract for compensation shall be 
 valid untfl approved by the Secretary. ,, . „ 
 
 Senator Lane. Is not that practically the same thing «■. 
 
 Senator Clapp. No ; that leaves them to select their own men so 
 that hereafter they can not say that they either did not understand 
 what they were doing under this agreement, or that they were 
 compelled to take counsel that did not fully represent them. 
 
 663 
 
664 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. What have you to say with regard to that, Mr. 
 Meritt? Do you object to that amendment, or have you anything 
 to say with regard to it. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Sections 2103, 2104, 2105, and 2106, Eevised Statutes, 
 require that all contracts with attorneys in connection with Indian 
 tribal matters shall be approved by the Secretary of the Interior, 
 and certain forms are required to be gone through with under that 
 law. If these contracts with attorneys are made subject to- the ex- 
 isting law, the department, I believe, will have no objection to that 
 action, if taken. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that amendment? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I want to be heard on that, not so much in respect 
 to a final resistance of the proposition. Here is the position we have 
 been placed in all the time with the Indians. We say they are our 
 wards. We gather them together. They have no representation 
 at all times. We make a contract with them as their guardians; 
 they are powerless ; they have no voice except what they may figure 
 out of their own inner consciousness. Then, afterwards, when they 
 claim they have not understood what was done, or that they have 
 got the worst of it, we then turn around and say to them, " You are 
 bound by your contract." No court on earth would permit a guar- 
 dian to turn upon his ward and say, " Here is your contract," even 
 if it were a contract for necessaries, to save the ward from suffering. 
 The guardian would have to prove the justice of it. We are always 
 placed in that incongruous position. 
 
 I believe the Indian should have a right to select his own attorneys. 
 Then, of course, I fully concede that when it comes to the question 
 of the contract, or the amount of compensation, he being no match for 
 the lawyer in that, we ought then to reach out and take jurisdiction 
 over him as our ward and say, " This contract, to be valid, must first 
 be approved by the Secretary of the Interior." 
 
 The Chairman. What language do you desire to be inserted, 
 Senator Clapp? 
 
 Senator Page. Let me ask you a question right there. Senator 
 Clapp, I can see that your argument is sound and hardly can be 
 answered, yet your experience and mine teaches us — I do not intend 
 to use any unkind expression except very casually — that there are peo- 
 ple hanging around here all the time, if I may use that expression; 
 there are a hundred lawyers, more or less, who are going out and 
 seeking all the time to stir up matters of difference between the 
 Indians and the Government of the United States. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is true; and while they do it, how do they 
 do it? Because we fail to maintain that perfect balance which the 
 guardian ought to maintain toward a ward. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is the truth of it. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Since I have been engaged in Indian work on this 
 committee, claims have been brought in here which have been 
 ignored and ridiculed, and yet when permitted to go into court the 
 court has sustained them. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is right. Our legislation frequently fur- 
 nishes the basis of these claims, for the reason that we do not thor- 
 oughly understand it. These people not only ought to be allowed 
 to hire an attorney, but the department should have no voice in say- 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 665 
 
 ing who that attorney should be; it should not appoint attorneys 
 on both sides. There ought to be allowed an appeal to the Court of 
 Claims. They ought to be in a position to compel the Government 
 to adjudicate the matter or go to the Court of Claims. That is fair 
 anywhere in the world. We do not allow the Indians to do that. 
 
 If there is any legislation in this bill which will give rise to claims, 
 the Government is going to be sued. That happens right along in 
 our management of the Indians' affairs. I think Senator Clapp is 
 right about it, but I think we ought to go farther. 
 
 The CiiAiRiiAx. What is the language of your amendment. Sen- 
 ator Clapp? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I will repeat it. At the end of line 25, page 73, 
 insert the following: 
 
 Said Indians may be represented in said negotiations by counsel to be selected 
 by tbem. but no contract for compensation of sucb counsel shall be valid until 
 approved by the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Page. I would like to ask a question. Are we not fairly 
 bound to presume that if an Indian selects a good man for his 
 counsel that they will not ratify it? Do they ever refuse to do that 
 if the man is a man who is a high-minded, honorable, and upright 
 attorney; do they refuse to ratify it? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not know that they ever refuse. I am not 
 criticizing the department. I have stood by the department, and 
 although we differ sometimes, I can not pay a sufficiently high 
 tribute to the Interior Department and the Indian Office; but there 
 are certain principles involved. We should either be a guardian in 
 all that that term implies, or, so far as making contracts affecting 
 their property rights is concerned, we should give them a free hand 
 to select their own counsel, one or the other. 
 
 Senator Page. I would not turn the Indians loose to be preyed 
 upon by some counsel that I have in mind. 
 
 Senator Clapp. This does not turn them loose, because it provides 
 that no contract for compensation shall have any force or effect until 
 approved by the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Senator Page, do you not recall the instance of 
 Mr. Mott, of the Creek Tribe — the man who was the attorney there, 
 whom the Indians selected, and whom the Secretary of the Interior 
 approved, but whom the Oklahoma delegation objected to; and 
 finally the Secretary wrote a letter stating that it might not be well 
 to appoint him although giving him a certificate of character and 
 ability and faithfuhiess that should be the joy of any man who 
 received it? . 
 
 Senator Page. I do not remember that, but I take it for granted 
 that what you say is absolutely correct. But, query— we are the 
 guardians. Now, would you say that a boy or girl, or noncompus, 
 should be permitted to select his own counsel with the probability 
 that that counsel might.not be the proper man to represent them? 
 
 Senator Townsend. No, not ordinarily; but if I had the say, as 
 guardian, as to what compensation he should receive, I feel that there 
 would be some confidence in this man because they select him— I 
 should think it was going a long way in the right direction m order 
 to get at a fair, decent settlement or adjustment of the relations. If 
 the Indians feel that they have not the man of their choice, that they 
 
666 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 
 
 have been foreclosed from selecting him, of course they are going to 
 be dissatisfied. 
 
 Senator Page. Let me ask the assistant commissioner this question, 
 are they foreclosed if they select a good man ; do you ever deny their 
 selection ? 
 
 Mr. Mbritt. I do not recall any case where the department has in 
 recent years denied the approval of a contract after the Indians had 
 selected the attorney. Of course, the department is very careful 
 about the terms of the contract, and there has been considerable 
 criticism of the department in regard to large attorneys' fees having 
 been awarded attorneys in certain cases, and it is necessary that we 
 be very careful in wording these contracts to avoid criticism, and at 
 the same time protect the Indians. 
 
 Senator Cl.4pp. Senator Page, may I have your attention a mo- 
 ment? The illustration you make is not accurate, and for this 
 reason : Suppose I go into our civil courts here. I may be the guar- 
 dian of a ward. The court is above both the ward and myself. The 
 court may select or approve the counsel for the infant ward, but no 
 court would abdicate that function and allow the guardian to make 
 that selection. It is inconsistent with the relation of guardian and 
 ward. Now, there being no court here above both guardian and 
 ward. Congress would not of course make this selection. The only 
 thing we can do is to either let the Indians make them, or else leave 
 the whole thing in the hands of the guardian. The position is an 
 illogical one. One minute the Indian is our ward and the next min- 
 ute we turn around upon him, after making a contract with him in 
 our capacity as guardian, and say, " Wlay, here is your contract." 
 Now, no court on earth among white people would tolerate such a 
 system. I would be perfectly willing and only too glad, if it were 
 possible for the department to do it. If it was one man they could 
 do it, but acting through subordinates they can not do it. If the 
 department would act ■ strictly as guardian, I would be perfectly 
 glad, but they won't do that. They will go there and make this 
 treaty for the United States. They are primarily an agency of the 
 United States, and it is illogical. The Indians ought to have a voice 
 as to who they will have so that they can never claim afterwards that 
 they were handicapped either as to the terms of the agreement or the 
 selection. 
 
 Now, there is that relationship of guardiaji and ward remaining, 
 and I would not turn the Indians loose to the attorneys when it 
 comes to a matter of compensation. I would therefore provide, if 
 the office does not feel that the existing law is sufficiently strong, that 
 as to compensation no contract should be valid until approved by 
 the Interior Department. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any further discussion? 
 
 Senator Owen. I would like to have the amendment read. 
 
 (The clerk here read the amendment appearing on page 73 of the 
 printed bill.) 
 
 Senator Owen. I think that would be all right if we were to add 
 the proviso that the Secretary of the Interior should not dictate the 
 attorneys. 
 
 Senator Clapp. They do not under my amendment. 
 
 Senator Owen. But they will do it all the time, Senator Clapp. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 667 
 
 Senator Clapp. Under my amendment 
 
 Senator Owen. I understand the language perfectly well. I am 
 talking about the practice. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Can you make it any stronger than that? 
 
 Senator Owen. I am speaking of the matter of the Secretary dic- 
 tating the attorneys. 
 
 Senator Clapp. When you state that the Indians shall be repre- 
 sented by counsel selected by themselves it fully covers it. 
 
 Senator Owen. That language has been used over and over agaiii 
 and they are then allowed to select, and when they select a man they 
 select a man whom the Secretary dictates. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not care how strong you make it. 
 
 Senator Owen. I am just calling your attention to the practice. 
 Is that not so, Mr. Commissioner, substantially, or am I wrong 
 about it? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I would say that the Indians are given a voice 
 
 Senator Owen. They are given a voice when they agree with what 
 the department wants. 
 
 Senator Lane. A still, small voice. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think the department ought to have a right to 
 object to an incompetent or a corrupt man 
 
 Senator Page. That is my idea exactly. 
 
 Senator Owen. But- the point is that they appoint men who are 
 dictated by the department. I do not think it is a fair practice, to 
 use mild terms. 
 
 Senator Geonna. May I have the amendment again read, Mr. 
 Chairman ? 
 
 (The amendment was again read.) 
 
 Senator Owen. I suggest that you add the words, " That this shall 
 not be construed to authorize the department to dictate the attor- 
 neys," or words to that effect. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I do not believe that would be necessary. 
 Senator. 
 
 Senator 0"wrEN. It has been done over and over again. 
 
 Senator Page. What I would like would be a proviso that gives 
 the department the right in case a corrupt attorixcy is employed to 
 have some say about it. 
 
 Senator Owen. The department ought to have the right to object 
 to a man who is unfit ; I think that is proper. But to use that discre- 
 tion which in effect deprives the Indians of a right to select, I do not 
 think that is right. 
 
 Senator Page. I asked the commissioner if he knew of any case 
 within the last two years where the attorney selected by the Indians 
 had been denied approval by the department, and he said he did not 
 recall that there had been. JDo you know, Senator, of any case where 
 the attorney has been denied ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes ; I do. I think in the case of Mr. D. B. Hen- 
 derson, among the Chippewas in your State 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 Senator Owen. Those people wanted him. Why has he not been 
 
 appointed? t , t , 
 
 , Mr. Meritt. He is representing those Indians now, 1 believe, be- 
 fore the Court of Claims. 
 
668 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. I am not talking about the Court of Claims, but 
 the department. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. For this reason : They wanted to pay Mr. Henderson 
 $10,000 a year, and we did not believe that that should be done. 
 
 Senator" Owen. Why did not the department agree upon some 
 price that they thought would be right ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The department thought that that was an exorbitant 
 iee to pay an attorney. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Conceding that to be true, the department ought 
 to exercise judgment as to the amount of the fees. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think so. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is what my amendment provides, if the law 
 does not already cover it. 
 
 Senator Oaven. I think that is all right. I just happened to think 
 of that one particular case. I know the man and know he is a decent 
 man and an honest man and an industrious man. I understand he 
 has been practicrJly denied the right to represent them, and the 
 approval has been withheld month after month and year after year 
 because of some reason I am not familiar with. If it comes down 
 to simply a question of compensation the department ought to say 
 to him frankly, " This is too much." 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There are other complications in that case. The 
 Chippewa Indians are divided into two factions, and one faction 
 has protested very strongly against the approval of the contract 
 with Mr. Plenderson. There was a protest in conifection with that 
 case which I believe justified the department in its position that 
 this was an exorbitant fee, and, secondly, the protest of a certain 
 class of Chippewa Indians against the approval of the contract 
 with Mr. Henderson — those Indians that are being represented by 
 Mr. Henderson in the Court of Claims 
 
 Senator Owen. Under an approved contract? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Under the case that has been referied to the Court 
 of Claims by act of Congress which did not, I believe, require that 
 the attorney's contract should be approved by the department. 
 
 Senator Owen. It does seem to me that the department ought to 
 do one thing or the other in regard to it and ought to take such steps 
 as will conclude the matter. It is simply hanging on in the air year 
 after year, and I do not think it is right. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. He is prosecuting the claims of the Chippewa In- 
 dians very vigorously now before the Court of Claims. 
 
 Senator Owen. That does not meet the point that I am making. 
 
 Senator Clapp. No; that is under the law. That has nothing to 
 CO with this matter. That matter was sent to the Court of Claims. 
 
 Senator Owen. That is another matter. I do not think the depart- 
 ment ought to use its discretion to dictate the attorneys. I do not 
 know these attorneys very well, but I know that that practice has 
 been followed, and I do not think it is wise, and I do not think it 
 is just, and I do not think it is fair to the Indians. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. On the other hand, if there is no discretion left with 
 the department, influence could be brought to bear 
 
 Senator Owen. I have never suggested that no discretion should be 
 left to the department ; but the situation is that the discretion of the 
 department should not be abused to the extent of dictating the attor- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 669 
 
 neys, M-hich has been indulged in for some time. That is what I 
 mean. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. If no adequate discretion were left to the department, 
 practically every Indian tribe in this country would be represented 
 by an attorney drawing a salary of from $5,000 to $10,000 a year, and 
 a condition would be brought about that would be simply intoler- 
 able. The department would be subject to severe criticism. The 
 department has already been subjected to severe criticism witli re- 
 spect to one of the large fees that has been paid to attorneys in cer- 
 tain cases. For example, in this very Ute case a firm of attorneys in 
 this city got a fee of a quarter of a million dollars for a very small 
 amount of work done in behalf of those Indians. We had nothing 
 to do with the approval of that contract. The matter was referred 
 to the Court of Claims under an act of Congress, and those attorneys 
 represented the Indians in that case, and the Court of Claims, I 
 believe, awarded a fee of about a quarter of a million dollars. The 
 department has since that time been criticized very severely for that 
 fee. 
 
 Senator Townseisd. And I think justly so. I think you will agree 
 that the Indian ought to be entitled to select counsel. 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsbnd. And you must agree also that if they select 
 their own counsel they will have more confidence in him than if you 
 put in somebody else. Now, if you have the power to approve the 
 contract as to price, have j^ou not met all the objections which have 
 been presented? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I am not objecting to the amendment offered by Sen- 
 ator Clapp ; but I think it might be strengthened by adding to the 
 amendment the words " in accordance with existing law," so that 
 the contract should be approved in accordance with existing law. 
 There would still be a limitation as to what the department would be 
 able to do under that amendment, but that would prescribe the 
 form. 
 
 Senator Clapp. But it would also leave it to the department to 
 approve the selection of the individuals. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Not at all, because your amendment plainly says the 
 Indians shall select. 
 
 Senator Clapp. But you immediately say accordmg to a certain 
 law under which the department has a spy as to who the counsel 
 shall be. There is the trouble. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; that would simply refer to the form of the 
 contract Your amendment would very plainly set aside the general 
 provisions of the law, so far as the selection of the attorney by the 
 department was concerned. This amendment that I have suggested 
 would simply require the form of the contract to be executed in 
 accordance with existing law. , .^ i. n 
 
 Senator Clapp. I have no objection to that at all. 
 Mr. Meritt. That would be entirely satisfactory to the depart- 
 
 ^S^enator Townsend. What is your proposition? . ., . ' 
 
 Senator Clapp. To add that the form of the contract shall be sub- 
 ject to the approval of the Department of the Interior. 
 Senator Owen. I think that is all right. 
 
670 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. "In accordance with existing law." 
 
 Senator Townsend. That does not change anything. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The office says it does. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That will be entirely satisfactory to us. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I thought you were trying to insert something 
 that they can not do now under existing law. 
 
 Senator Clapp. No ; I say, " The form of the contract to be ap- 
 proved by the Secretary of the Interior." 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not want to suggest anything that would be 
 a deprivation of the office of its proper exercise of discretion. What 
 I did object to was the use of that discretion to dictate the appoint- 
 ment of a favorite. That is what I mean, and I do not say that because 
 I think this particular office will do it, but because I know it has 
 been the practice in the past, and I know it is human nature to do 
 it. I simply want to safeguard these people against the exercise 
 of tyranny under the form of discretion. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that we adopt this amendment with the sug- 
 gestion made by Mr. Meritt. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That brings up the question, " under existing law," 
 and the department could say who the attorneys should be. When- 
 ever you enact a provision of law and follow it with a provision 
 which repeals it, the latter provision prevails. 
 
 The Chaieman. The question is on the amendment. 
 
 Senator JjAne. Just one minute. Why not give them the right 
 to appeal to the Court of Claims if they are not satisfied with it? 
 
 Senator Clapp. You would not take that matter to the Court of 
 Claims — the question of the selection of counsel. 
 
 Senator Lane. I mean for final settlement. 
 
 Senator Clapp. This whole matter contemplates the Government 
 making a final agreement with these Indians. I am simply con- 
 tending that in that case it may be final, that they may never say 
 that they do not understand what they did; they should have the 
 right to select their own counsel to represent them, the department 
 having the right to say what the fee shall be. 
 
 Senator Lane. To represent them in this negotiation? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 Senator Lane. For the settlement of these claims ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 Senator Lane. Why not give them the final right, if they do not 
 come to an agreement, to appeal their case to the Court of Claims? 
 
 Senator Clapp. If they can not come to an agreement in this Ute 
 matter we will then have to make some provision with respect to the 
 Court of Claims. 
 
 Senator Lane. Why not do it right now ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Because it is the general belief they will be able to 
 come to an agreement. 
 
 Senator Lane. I know, but it would not hurt this any to put 
 that in. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I have no objection to it. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Here is the only objection I see to it. I am 
 satisfied that if you strike out " according to existing law " — because 
 we are making a new law here — and leave that as it is, and if you 
 put in a provision permitting them to go to the Court of Claims it 
 is altogether probable that every case will go to the Court of Claims. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 671 
 
 Senator Lane. This is one simple case. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think we had better submit this proposition to 
 agreement and let tliem go out there and try it out. 
 
 Senator Tow^'send. They have their own counsel. He will come 
 before this committee if there is anything that is not right about it. 
 
 Senator Lane. They may come to an amicable agreement, and they 
 may not; they may get justice, and they may not; in case they do 
 not I do not see why a door should not be left open for them the same 
 as to anyone else to go to the court and settle it. It seems to me that 
 would be fair and eminently just to both sides, and would be an 
 additional guaranty. "VVliat do you think about that, Sen,ator Owen, 
 that they be given the final right, in case they are not satisfied, to 
 appeal to the Court of Claims in this matter for final jurisdiction? 
 
 Senator Owen. I believe in gi"^'ing these people the right to go into 
 court when they do not have an adjustment that is fair. 
 
 Senator Lane. It is possible they may not want to appeal to the 
 Court of Claims ; but I see no objection to that course. 
 
 Senator Owen. I have no objection to it. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that proposition, that in 
 case they are unable to agree that they shall go to the Court of 
 Claims? 
 
 Senator Geonna. I want a vote on the original question. I am 
 opposed to the amendment proposed by Mr. Meritt, because it clearly 
 modifies the language of the entire paragraph and leaves it in prac- 
 tically the way it is. If you are going to change the law, you should 
 change it, and if not, let it stand as it is. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move to amend at the bottom of page 73 by 
 inserting the following words at the end of line 25 : 
 
 That the said Indians may be represented in said negotiations by counsel to 
 be selected by themselves, but no contract for compensation shall be valid until 
 approved by the Secretary of the Interior, and said Secretary shall approve 
 the form of said contract. 
 
 Now. to bring it to a head, and vote it down if it is not desirable, 
 I move the adoption of that amendment. 
 
 The CiiAiRiMAN. The question is on the amendment of the Senator 
 from Minnesota. 
 
 Senator Lane. That leaves out the right of appeal. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That would be a subsequent matter, anyway. 
 
 The question being taken by yeas and nays, resulted— yeas 8, nays 0, 
 as follows : Yeas, Senators Myers, Lane, Owen, Clapp, Page, Gronna, 
 Townsend, and the chairman ; nays, none. 
 
 Senator LA^-E. I have voted in favor of it in consideration of there 
 being allowed that right of appeal. If not, I am against it. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Senator Lane, while, of course, I would not take 
 a position in this matter which would be in any manner coercive 
 upon the Indians to come to any agreement, my own judgment is 
 that it might interfere with their coming to an agreement; it might 
 make it more difficult to come to an agreement if at this time we 
 told them that if they did not agree they could go to the Court of 
 Claims. I think we should give the Government, or the Indians rep- 
 resented now by their own counsel, an opportunity to go there and 
 <5ee whether they can make an agreement that will be satisfactory to 
 
672 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 the Indians thus represented. Then if they can not, we can very 
 easily thrash out the question of sending it to the Court of Claims, 
 and the terms, provisions, and conditions under .which we will send 
 it there. 
 
 Senator Lane. It will all have to be opened up again if y6u do 
 that. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I am not going to oppose your motion. 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from Oregon proposes an amend- 
 ment that if the Indians shall not be able to agree 
 
 Senator Lane. Xo; that was not my proposition. 
 
 Senator Clapp. No ; it is settling the issue involved. 
 
 Senator Lane. There are tribes of Indians who are represented 
 by counsel, and have been in many cases in the past, but as a rule 
 they are not allowed to appeal to the courts. Where they have done 
 so, in many cases they have recovered claims which they otherwise 
 probably ncA-er would have gotten. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you want the roll called on your amendment? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes. This is what I am trying to accomplish: In 
 the event the Indians are not satisfied 
 
 Senator Clapp. Will you allow me to frame it for you ? I under- 
 stand what your idea is. 
 
 Senator Lane. Very well. 
 
 Senator Clapp. You desire to add the words: ^''Provided, That if 
 an agreement can not be entered into with said Confederated Bands 
 of Ute Indians as hereinbefore provided, said Confederated Bands 
 of Ute Indians may bring action in the Court of Claims, which is 
 given jurisdiction for that purpose to hear and determine all matters 
 of difference between said Confederated Bands of Ute Indians and 
 the United States." 
 
 Senator Lane. Empowered or authorized — did you cover that? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 SIOUX TREATY — SCHOOL FACILITIES. 
 
 The Chairman. The only remaining item of the appropriation 
 bill is the question of the Sioux treaty item, which will be found on 
 page 69, commencing with line 3, as follows : 
 
 For support and mnlntennnce of day and industrial schools among the Sioux 
 Indians, including the erection and repairs of school buildings, .$200,000, to he 
 expended under the agreement iritli said IndUins in seetion, seventeen, of the act 
 of Marcli second, eir/liteen liundred and eifilitii-nine. whieli. af/reenient is licrcTjy 
 extended to and ineJuiling Jane thirtieth, nineteen hiindred and i.i.rieen. 
 
 I have received considerable data relative to the Sioux treaty items 
 and the sectarian school question, which I will have read and in- 
 corporated in the record. 
 
 (The data referred to was read and is as follows:) 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington. February 8, 1915. 
 JlY Dear Senator : In response to the request of your committee for a letter 
 setting out \^'hether Indians whose tribal funds are used for educating their 
 children in sectarian schools will come in for a share in the distribution of 
 these funds, you are advised as follows : 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 673 
 
 Under the long-estaWislied practice of handling trust and treaty funds the 
 right or interest of any Indian whose children are educated In a mission school, 
 as a result of his having evidenced a desire that this should be done, to any 
 annuity or pro rata distribution of these funds, is not lessened by his having 
 availed himself of the privilege of enrolling his children In such school. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Cato Sells, Commissioner. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashtjkst, 
 
 Chairman Committee ou Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 BoAED OF Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church 
 
 IN THE United States of America, 
 
 New York, February 4, 1915. 
 Mr. E. B. Meeitt, 
 
 Assistant Commissioner Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C 
 My Dear Me. SIeeitt : The record of the proceedings of the Senate Committee 
 on Indian Affairs of January 16, 1915, contains the follov^ing statements fur- 
 nished by you in response to inquiries from members of the committee: On 
 page 33, among the sectarian contract schools are included Old Goodland School, 
 Hugo, Okla., and the Presbyterian College for Girls at Durant, Okla., both of 
 which are listed as Presbyterian denominational schools. On page 34 you state, 
 "Both Catholic and Protestant schools are paid out of the (tribal) funds." 
 Permit me to ask you to note the following statements : 
 The executive secretary for home missions of the Southern Presbyterian 
 Church, Dr. S. L. Morris, reported to the (interdenominational) Home Missions 
 Council at its annual meeting : " Goodland School is no longer under our juris- 
 diction, and we make no appropriation for it." 
 
 Regarding the Durant School for Girls, you will also find, I think, that no 
 appropriation is made and no contract entered into by the Southern Presby- 
 terian Church or its board of missions. There is to-day no Protestant de- 
 nomination entering into contract with the Government for an Indian school. 
 
 The old name of the Durant institution is still used, the Presbyterian School 
 for Girls, but this we believe should not be continued. 
 
 Thanking you for making corrections in the statements to the Senate com- 
 mittee, if you find the records besar out what I have called to your attention, I 
 remain. 
 
 Sincerely, yours, 
 
 T. C. Moffett, 
 Chairman of Committee on Indian Work, the Home Missions Council, 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affaibs, 
 Washington, Feirvary 8, 1915. 
 
 My Dear Senator : I have your informal request for information showing 
 whether the Government has invited denominations to invest money in building 
 denominational schools by the promise or hope or intimation of appropriations 
 for their support, and showing also wherein there has been any change in policy 
 with respect to these schools and the withdrawal of support for appropriations 
 to maintain the schools. ,, , ^ 
 
 The history of Federal aid to other than Government schools goes back to 
 the beginning of the last century. The first appropriation for Indian education 
 was by the act of March 3, 1819 (3 Stat. L., 516) . This act provided the annual 
 sum of ^10,000 for the purpose and read, In part: ^ ^ , 
 
 " That for the purpose of providing against the further decline and final ex- 
 tinction of the Indian tribes adjoining the frontier settlements of the United 
 States and for introducing among them the habits and arts of civilization, the 
 President of the United States shall be, and he is hereby, authorized, m every 
 case where he shall judge improvement in the habits and conditions of such 
 Indians practicable, and that the means of instruction can be introduced with 
 their own consent, to employ capable persons of good moral character to instruct 
 them in the mode of agriculture suited to their situation ; and for teaching their 
 82833 — VOL 1—15 43 
 
674 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 cWldren in reading, writing, and arithmetic; and performing such other duties 
 as may be enjoined, according to such instructions and rules as the 1 resident 
 may give and prescribe for the regulation of their conduct in the discharge of 
 their duties." 
 
 In 1S20, 21 schools conducted by the different religious societies were given 
 ?11,838, and from that date until the appropriation of $100,000 m 1S70 (16 Stat., 
 335-359) the principal educational worlj in relation to the Indians was under 
 the auspices of these bodies, aided more or less by the Government. 
 
 Similar appropi-iations continued until 1S76, and contracts were made an- 
 nually with the mission schools of the dilt'erent denominations, payable from 
 these appropriations. 
 
 The act of August 15, 1S7C (19 Stat. L., 1T6, 197), appropriated $20,000 for 
 the support of industrial schools and other educational purposes for the Indian 
 tribes. H'rom these public funds— and also from tribal funds available for 
 educational purposes under treaty stipulations — were paid the amounts due 
 under contracts made by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, approved by the 
 Secretary of the Interior, with the various denominational schools for the edu- 
 cation of Indian children. 
 
 In 1889 there were set aside for contract schools $529,905 ; in 1890, $562,640 ; 
 in 1S91, $570,218; in 1892, $611,570; in 1893, $533,241; and $537,600 in 1894. 
 
 The appropriation act for the fiscal year 1896 (act of Mar. 2, 1895, 28 Stat. L., 
 876, 903, 904) provided: 
 
 " That the Secretary of the Interior shall make contracts, but only with 
 present contract schools, for the education of Indian pupils during the fiscal 
 year ending June thirtieth, eighteen hundred and ninety-six. to an extent not 
 exceeding eighty per centum of the amount so used for the fiscal year eighteen 
 hundred and ninety-five, and the Government shall, as early as practicable, 
 malie provision for the education of Indian children in Government schools: 
 Provided, That the foregoing shall not apply to public schools of any State, 
 Territory, county, or city, or to schools herein or hereafter specifically pro- 
 vided for." 
 
 The act of June 10, 1896 (29 Stats. L., 321, 345), provided: 
 
 " That the Secretary of the Interior may make contracts with contract 
 schools apportioning as near as may be the amount so contracted for among 
 schools of ^'arious denominations for the education of Indian pupils during fiscal 
 year eighteen hundred and ninety-seven, but shall only make such contracts 
 at places where nonsectarlan schools can not be provided for such Indian 
 children and to an amount not exceeding fifty per centum of the amount so 
 used for the fiscal year eighteen hundred and ninety-five : Provided further, 
 That the foregoing shall not apply to public schools of any State, Territory, 
 county, or city, or to schools herein or hereafter specifically provided for." 
 
 The act of June 7, 1897 (30 Stats. L., 62, 79), provided: 
 
 "And it is hereby declared to be the settled policy of the Government to 
 hereafter make no appropriation whatever for education in any sectarian 
 school : Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior may make contracts with 
 contract schools apportioning as near as may be the amount so contracted for 
 among schools of various denominations for the education of Indian pupils 
 during the fiscal year eighteen hundred and ninety-eight, but shall only make 
 such contracts at places where nonsectarlan schools can not be provided for 
 such Indian children end to an amount not exceeding forty per centum of the 
 amount so used for the fiscal year eighteen hundred and ninety-five." 
 
 The act of March 1, 1899 (30 Stats. L., 924, 942), provided: 
 
 " That the Secretary of the Interior may make contracts with contract 
 schools, apportioning as near as may be the amount so contracted for among 
 schools of various denominations, for the education of Indian pupils during 
 the fiscal year nineteen hundred, but shall only make such contracts at places 
 where nonsectarlan schools can not be provided for such Indian children, and 
 to an amount not exceeding fifteen per centum of the amount so used for the 
 fiscal year eighteen hundred and ninety-five, the same to be divided propor- 
 tionately among the said several contract schools, this being the final appro- 
 priation for sectarian schools." 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Cato Sells, Com,missioner. 
 
 Hon. Henby F. Ashukst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 675 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 Office Commissionee of Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, FeXiraary 8, 1915. . 
 My Dear Senator : In answer to your formal request with reference to what 
 effect the discontinuance of contracts \yith mission schools for the education, 
 of Indian children would have npon the educational facilities for Indian chil- 
 dren generally, the following statement is submitted : 
 
 The report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for the fiscal year 1014 
 shows that there are approximately 15,000 Indian children, out of a total of 
 77,000 eligibles, not in school, and as long as snch a condition exists the problem 
 of enrolling Indian children in school is of the greatest importance. 
 
 Although most of the unenroUed Indian children are not entitled to enroll- 
 ment in these mission schools, yet if the contracts should be discontinued it 
 would necessarily diminish the available educactional facilities. The increased 
 requirements If thus imposed would have to be met by increasing the Govern- 
 ment schools and by becoming more dependent upon the public schools, which 
 are not always available or conveniently located for Indian pupils. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Cato Sells, Gommlssioner. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashukst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian AJfairts. 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 Washington, Fet)ruary 10, 1915. 
 
 My Dear Senator : On page 33 of Senate hearings on the Indian appropria- 
 tion bill (H. R. 20150. pt. 1) there appears a statement showing " Sectarian 
 contract schools in Indian Service, with amounts set aside for each for 1915." 
 
 Rev. Thomas C. Moffett. chairman of the committee on Indian worlj, the 
 Home Mission's council, has brought to my attention in a letter herewith, dated 
 February 4, 1915, the fact that the old Goodland School, of Hugo, Okla., and 
 the Presbyterian College for Girls, Durant, Okla., which are listed in this 
 statement as Presbyterian denominational schools under sectarian control for 
 1915, are not under the jurisdiction of and do not receive appropriations from 
 the Southern Presbyterian Church, by which they were formerly controlled. 
 
 I find that prior to 1912 the old Goodland Indian Industrial School, located 
 at Hugo, Okla., was the property of and under the control of the Presbyterian 
 Board of Missions, of Atlanta, Ga. Mr. Silas Bacon, an ordained minister and 
 a member of the Choctaw Tribe, founded the school in 1888, and had been 
 president of the institution for a number of years prior to the year 1912. 
 
 In March, 1912, this school was incorporated under the laws of the State of 
 Oklahoma. A certificate of incorporation was issued March 5 of that year. 
 The board of trustees of the old institution were reelected as trustees of the 
 corporation, with possibly one or two additions, and Mr. Bacon was reelected 
 
 president. 
 
 The following paragraph is taken from a letter from Silas L. Bacon, dated 
 March 25, 1912, addressed to the Secretary of the Interior, with reference to 
 the reorganization of this school : 
 
 "You will note in the last item of the minutes of March 22, 1912, that the 
 board ad.iourned to meet at Good Spring in April during the meeting of Indian 
 Presbytery the object being to Inform the Presbytery that we are now by and 
 under our revised charter no longer under any allegiance to that body." 
 
 Under the circumstances I deem it proper to request that the statement re- 
 ferred to above be changed so that it will appear that the old Goodland School, 
 of Hugo, Okla., is a private institution. This change will be made in the records 
 
 °*TOth\^eterencf to'the Presbyterian College for Girls, I find that in 1910, upon 
 thrrecommendation of supervisor in charge of the Five Civilized Tribes, Oscar 
 H Upp^ the office enteral into a contract for the fiscal year ending June 80 
 foil w'th one William B. Morrison, of Durant, Okla., for the education of 
 Sn pupils in the school known as the Oklahoma Presbyterian College for 
 Giris This contract was signed by William B. Morrison There have since 
 been made contracts with this school for the years 1912, 1913, 1914, and 1915, 
 
676 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 eacli of whichi has been made with the Oklahoma Presbyterian College for Girls, 
 W. B. Morrison signing as president. With these contracts there are no cei-tm- 
 cates showing that W. B. Morrison was authorized to contract for or m behalf 
 of any board or organization. 
 
 On September 25, 1911, Supervisor John B. Brown advised the office that the 
 Presbyterian College for Girls, Durant, Okla., was a mission school under the 
 Presbyterian denomination. This information was given upon the inquiry of 
 this office. This school has been carried by the Indian Office as a denomina- 
 tional school since that time. 
 
 It is proper to request that the statement with regard to this school made at 
 the Senate hearings refen-ed to above be changed so that it will appear that 
 Thomas 0. Moffett", chairman of the committee on Indian work, the Home Mis- 
 sions Council, in behalf of this organization advises that the Presbyterian Col- 
 lege for Girls, Durant, is not contracted for by the Presbyterian Church or its 
 board of missions, although the old name of the institution is retained. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 E. B. Mebitt, 
 Assistant Commissioner. 
 
 Hon. Henet F. Ashtjbst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Department or the Inteeioe, 
 Office Commissioner of Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, Feiniary 8, 1915. 
 Mt Dear Senator: In regard to the informal request of your committee for 
 a Statement as to whether or not Government moneys are used for the educa- 
 tion af Crow children in sectarian schools, you are advised that no Government 
 or tribal moneys of any character are now used for this purpose. 
 
 The last sectarian school contract for Crow Indians was made for the fiscal 
 year 1900. 
 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Cato Sells, Commissioner. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Senator Lane. I can not understand this language here, and I 
 would Uke to have somebody translate it for me. It seems to be a 
 joke. It says : 
 
 February 8, 1915. 
 My Dear Senator : In response to the request of your committee for a letter 
 setting out whether Indians whose tribal funds are used for educating their 
 children in sectarian schools will come in for a share in the distribution of these 
 funds, you are advised as follows: 
 
 Under the long-established practice of handling trust and treaty funds the 
 right or interest of any Indian whose children are educated in a mission school, 
 as a result of his having evidenced a desire that this should be done, to any 
 annuity or pro rata distribution of these funds, is not lessened by his having 
 availed himself of the privilege of enrolling his children In such school. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 (Signed) Cato Sells, Commissioner. 
 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashttest, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 I do not understand that to be the query at all. I understood the 
 query to be as to whether the other man whose children were not 
 attending the sectarian schools, whether his annuity was not lessened 
 by having those children come back. 
 
 Senator Townsend. It says it does because the man whose children 
 are educated in the mission schools at his request still has a right to 
 share in the tribal funds. 
 
 Senator Lane. I did not understand that. 
 
 Senator Clapp. What I wanted to say was I do not believe it would 
 be right to take the money of the department to educate the children 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 677 
 
 ill a sectarian school. On the other hand, I have the right to use the 
 means to educate my children in such school as I see fit, and I have 
 always insisted on granting to everyone else the rights that I claim. 
 1 believe it is right for the Indian, if he has money that is coming 
 to him, and which can be segregated and can be used without in any 
 manner intrenching upon the amount that will go to the other In- 
 dians, so if he himself wants his children educated he may do so 
 wherever he pleases, and I shall therefore vote to restore the pro- 
 vision that was put in by the House committee. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Let me ask you a question, Mr. Meritt. You 
 ha^e given this matter some attention undoubtedly. I indorse the 
 views that have been expressed by the Senator from Minnesota. That 
 letter may be equivocal, but to me it means this, that these funds 
 which are used for educating children in sectarian schools where they 
 are using those funds, affect the property rights of Indians whose 
 children are not educated in the public schools, and their share is to 
 some extent at least lessened. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That can not be. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask Mr. Carter, who is 
 the chief of the school section of the Indian Bureau, and who is more 
 familiar with this subject than I am, to answer that question. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Senator, I did not understand you when you used the 
 tei-m " public schools." Did you mean a public school in your ques- 
 tion? 
 
 Senator Townsend. I meant a mission school. I did not mean a 
 public school. I am talking about the mission schools. Perhaps my 
 question was rather cloudy. Senator Clapp has expressed my view on 
 this subject, nameh^, that an Indian should have the right, the same as 
 a white man, to educate his children where he wishes to educate them. 
 If there is a sectarian school to which he wishes to send his children, 
 he should have the privilege to do it, but he ought not to do it at the 
 expense of any child who does not wish to be educated in a sectarian 
 school. Does the present arrangement influence or affect the property 
 rights of the nonsectarian child ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Assuming that the child, if he does not go to the 
 mission school, will go to the Government boarding school, it does 
 not lessen the interest of the individual in such funds. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Suppose he does go to the Government board- 
 ing schools ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. It does not lessen the interest of the parent whose 
 child is educated in a mission school in a subsequent annuity that may 
 be paid from such funds. 
 
 Senator White. Suppose he does not go to the boarding school — 
 they have other schools beside the boarding schools, have they not? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Not supported from those funds, only Government 
 
 day schools. , , ' , ■ jy 
 
 Senator White. Suppose he goes to those schools, how does it affect 
 
 him? 
 
 Mr. Carter. The result would be, if he went to a Government day 
 school, that the total amount of the funds used on the reservation 
 would be less, therefore any subsequent distribution would be en- 
 hanced for all the Indians. 
 
678 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. Theys^ would be worth more because there was less 
 remaining? 
 
 Mr. Carter. If a child goes to a Government day school, which 
 costs less to maintain, the effect would be that the total sum that 
 might afterwards be distributed as an annuity or payment, if such 
 be possible, would be enhanced because of that cheaper form, of 
 education. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Let me put it in this way: Under this ar- 
 rangement by the department for the education of children in sec- 
 tarian schools— under this arrangement, do the Indians as a tribe, 
 or does the Government in any particular, contribute to the support 
 of the sectarian schools? 
 
 Mr. Carter. No, sir; only the tribal funds are used. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Tribal funds are used. I said fujids belong- 
 ing to the tribe as a whole. 
 
 Mr. Carter. That is all. 
 
 Senator Townsend. So that an Indian who does not attend the 
 sectarian schools, or whose child does not attend, helps to pay the 
 bills of those who do attend the sectarian schools ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. It is taken from a fund in which he is interested; 
 yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Now, suppose there were just two Indians, and 
 each one is entitled to $100, and one Indian puts his child in a 
 Methodist school, it does not lessen the $100 that the other one can 
 put in a Baptist school, does it; in other words, when you prorate 
 then you prorate before there is any expenditure ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. There is no prorating at all. 
 
 Senator Clapp. There has to be. 
 
 Mr. Carter. There has not been under the present arrangement. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Then how do you determine how much one of those 
 children is entitled to have expended in any school ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. That question has not been called for in any plan of 
 distribution that has been used by the department in the last few 
 years. 
 
 Senator Clapp. How was it done on the Sioux Reservation; how 
 do you get at the amount that any child is entitled to have taken 
 and put into any school that his parent designates? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Briefly, the plan is something like this : Prior to enter- 
 ing into a contract with any mission schools the department under- 
 takes to find out the number of Indians who desire their children 
 educated in such schools, and in order to get that information it 
 allows the Indians to send in a petition to the department, and this 
 plan is only for the purpose of determining the number who desire 
 Iheir funds used in this way. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Suppose there are a certain number of Indians on a 
 reservation, counting men, women, and children 
 
 Senator Clapp. Take this very Sioux case that we have now under 
 consideration. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes; and there are a certain number available for 
 school purposes from tribal funds 
 
 Senator Robinson. A certain number of what? 
 
 Mr. Carter. A certain amount of money available for school pur- 
 j)oses on the i^eservation, the total number of Indians should be 
 
liN LIIAIM Ai'i'KUJr'KiATiUN BILL. 679 
 
 divided into the total amount of money available for school pur- 
 poses, ii'hich would give the value of each individual when it comes 
 to voting. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Exactly; that answers my "question. 
 
 Senator Kobi>;son. AVhy is that not prorated among them? 
 _ Mr. Carter. Because the sum is not segregated at all. This is the 
 first half of the plan. After the names of all those who have voteS 
 in favor of the contracts have been counted, and the number of shares 
 that they represent equals, say one-third of all those on the reserva- 
 tion, then all the statements with reference to the division of shares 
 nnd of proration of funds may be set aside, and the department can 
 make contracts with mission schools, using not more than one-third 
 of the total amount of funds that are available for educational 
 purposes. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Exactly. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That would appear to be equivalent to pro- 
 rating the money of the Indians, allowing each Indian to use his 
 share in these schools. What is the distinction? You undoubtedly 
 understand what we are trying to ascertain. Does that practice work 
 to the detriment of the other Indians who do not patronize the mis- 
 sion schools, and if so, how ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. As stated in the letter, it does not lessien his interest 
 in any pro rata distribution or annuity that might thereafter occur. 
 
 Senator Eobisson. That is not what the letter says. The letter 
 says it does not lessen the pro rata interest. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Not the pro rata. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Or the interest of the Indian pupils? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Not the pupils ; it is the parent. 
 
 Senator Robinson. It does not make any difference, I submit, 
 whether you treat it as belonging to the pupil or the parent. It says 
 it does not lessen his interest in a subsequent distribution. Do you 
 mean to say after you set aside $100,000 for the use of those pupils, 
 or their parents, who decide they shall patronize the mission schools, 
 that there would be, for instance, $200,000 in the Treasury to the 
 credit of this educational fund — that when you go to use that 
 $200,000 those who have already shared by using part of the funds 
 for the mission schools will share in the $200,000? 
 
 Mr. Carter. They will share in any residue that is left. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is it. 
 
 Senator Lane. Their residue being $200,000, they would share in 
 that the same as any other Indian, whether his child had gone to a 
 mission school or not; is that true? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That can not be possible. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is what they say here. 
 
 Senator Robinson. He has either made a mistake or he does not 
 understand my question, because I do not know how anybody would 
 lustify that system. The system was pretty well justified the other 
 day on this ground, that the Government had failed to provide ade- 
 quate school facilities on many of these reservations that some of 
 the churches had provided, and that there could be no objection m 
 the absence of Government school facilities to permitting the Indian 
 to use his share of the tribal fund to educate his children in a mis- 
 
680 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 sion school, especially so long as the Government did not provide 
 schools. Now it appears that he is not only to use his share but 
 everybody else's share if conditions are favorable to it— subsequent 
 conditions. In other vpords, let me carry the illustration a little 
 further. I have taken the case of $1,000 now available to a given 
 ttibe for educational purposes. You have set aside $100,000 this 
 year as going to Indians who want to educate in the mission schools. 
 'Next year there are still no Government schools on the reservation 
 and you set aside one-third of the remaining $200,000. Does this 
 thousand and some hundred dollars still deplete the fund until 
 finally the fund would be almost entirely exhausted, and those who 
 do not wish to attend the mission schools and refuse to do so would 
 get no part of the fund or no considerable part of it ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. That can not be. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I am through. I wanted to see if I had cor- 
 rectly stated the practice. 
 
 Mr. Carter. I do not understand it that way. To state the same 
 fact in another form, there are Government schools and mission 
 schools on this reservation. Now, assuming that those will furnish 
 educational facilities for all the children and that there is just a 
 lump sum from which those classes of schools are supported, it is 
 immaterial whether they go to a mission school or a Government 
 boarding school ; the only difference that there might be in any resi- 
 due that might come, according to law, would be the difference in cost 
 between the mission school and the Government school. If he goes to 
 a cheap school the total amount that would be left after all schools 
 were supported would be larger and everybody would be benefited 
 by it. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Suppose some of the children do not attend 
 school at all, do they all share pro rata in the residue? 
 
 Mr. Carter. In the residue; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. It is all used for school purposes, is it not? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Myers. I would like to ask Mr. Carter, Is there any Gov- 
 ernment school here that these children can attend and take their 
 choice of attending one or the other? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Mtees. And do they have their choice? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Mters. If one of them attends the Government school, is 
 any of his money taken to pay for the education of one who does 
 not go to the Government schools? 
 
 Mr. Carter. A fund in which he is interested is used, but not his 
 individual fund. 
 
 Senator "WHitE. Assuming now that there is no fund set apart for 
 the rnission school, or for the child going to the mission school, will 
 that increase the amount — I mean if the child going to the mission 
 scnool would go to the other school, would that lengthen the term; 
 would it give the child more educational advantages in so far as 
 length of term is concerned? 
 
 Mr. Carter. I do not understand the question. 
 
 Senator White. We will take Senator Robinson's proposition. 
 Here is $300,000 which we will assume is to be devoted to educa- 
 
INDIAN APPHOPEIATION BILL. 681 
 
 tional purposes. Say that $100,000 could be distributed to the mis- 
 sion schools — that is, not that the fund is all kept together but the 
 children are all required to go to the public schools — will it lengthen 
 their term of school or school days? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Assuming that the child does not go to the mission 
 school ? 
 
 Senator White. Yes; and the funds are all used for the common 
 schools. 
 
 Mr. Carter. And they use all the funds for a common school 
 which costs less? 
 
 Senator White. Will that increase the school days? 
 
 Mr. Carter. No, sir; it will simply add to any residue if there 
 was going to be a distribution later. 
 
 Senator Owen. That means it would increase the number of days 
 because you would have more money to use, the mission schools being 
 cheaper than the Government schools; that is a fact, is it not, the 
 mission school is conducted more cheaply than the other school ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. But what I want to get at is this, can the children 
 attending any school be educated more cheaply than that ; could you 
 educate 20 at the same price, practically, as you could 10? Could 
 you afford school facilities for 20 as cheaply as could for 10? 
 
 Mr. Cari-er. Yes; ordinarily more cheaply 
 
 Senator White. Let me ask you this question. Where does this 
 money come from that you say is set aside ; what money is it ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. It is the Indian's money — tribal funds. 
 
 Senator White. Belonging to the whole tribe? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Now, if any portion of this money is used for 
 mission schools, it leaves that much less, of course, of the tribal funds 
 for schools? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Is it possible that the mission school may* receive 
 more money, according to the pupils educated, than its pro rata 
 share, if it were pro rated, of these tribal funds ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. No, sir. 
 
 Senator White. It is not possible? 
 
 Mr. Carter. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Chairman, as bearing upon that matter, I 
 would like to read a letter from Commissioner Leupp, who is a very 
 bright man, to say the least-^some people do not like him but I do. 
 Here is a letter which he wrole in regard to this very matter : 
 
 Suppose that we have a reservation containing 5,000 Indians, to whom there is 
 to be paid In any fiscal year a tribal income of $50,000. This would entitle 
 each individual Indian to $10 as his pro rata share. Suppose that 500 of these 
 Indians petition to have their shares drawn upon for the support of, say, 40 
 children at $100 apiece at a certain religious mission school. That costs $4,000, 
 which deducted from the $5,000 due to the 500 petitioners, leaves a balance 
 of $1,000, or $2 apiece, to be paid to the petitioners at the final payment period 
 
 of the year. ^ ,, -,. . ^ ^t. • 
 
 The 4 500 Indians who do not petition for the diversion of their money to a 
 mission ' school are assumed, under the President's plan, to be in favor of 
 Government schools, as the Government treaties with these Indians constitute 
 a written demand of the tribe for the maintenance of such schools on the 
 reservation. Now, suppose the Government schools to cost $25,000 for the 
 
682 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 jear's maintenance. Deduct this sum from the $45,000 due to the 4,500 nonpeti- 
 tioners, and we have a balance of $20,000 to be distributed among the 4,50U at 
 the rate of $4.44 apiece. ,. -j, j • 
 
 Of course, the difference between the $4.44 and the $2 ultimate dividends is 
 largely in favor of the nonpetitioners as contrasted with the petitioners. Froni 
 this fact a casual observer might jump to the conclusion that the shares of 
 the 4,500 nonpetitioners are not at all affected by the diversion of the $4,000 
 to the mission school. I insist that this diversion does affect their shares ; for, 
 if there had been no diversion of $4,000 there would have been $25,000 to dis- 
 tribute among the whole 5,000 Indians, and each Indian would have received $5. 
 Although the shares of the nonpetitioners suffer to the extent of only 54 cents, 
 they do suffer by this sum. The insignificance of the amount involved does 
 not change the basic fact. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is that about a fair statement, as you understand it? 
 
 Mr. Carter. I do not understand it just that way; no, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. As I understand it, this is not a fund to be dis- 
 tributed per capita ; it is a fund that is used for school purposes. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is that right, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Senator Owen. It is a tribal fund. It is used for school pur- 
 poses, some of the schools being conducted by the Government and 
 some by the missions. 
 
 Senator Lane. No ; I do not understand it so. I understand after 
 those funds have been expended by the mission school, that the 
 parent of the child comes back and receives its share of the residue 
 on the same pro rata amount as the other. 
 
 Senator Owen. As the per capita plan? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; that is my understanding. 
 
 Mr. Carter. If this were susceptible of being paid as a per capita 
 plan 
 
 Senator Owen. But as a point of fact it is a school fund? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir; the fund used this year is the fund for 
 educational purposes, and if not used simply accrues and is used 
 next year. 
 
 Senator Owen. This theory that it is a per capita fund is simply a 
 mathematical theory without any substantial basis? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Only for the purposes of voting. 
 
 Senator Lane. It not being distributed per capita, it being kept 
 for school purposes, and the Indian, then, whose child wants to go to 
 a mission school can come back on to this fund again, until it is 
 exhausted ? 
 
 Senator Owen. If that were true it would have the effect that the 
 petitioning Indian having received a schooling at a cost less than 
 his brothers would then be entitled to a little balance. 
 
 Senator Lane. That might be; yeg'. I do not know anything 
 about that. ""*" 
 
 Senator Owen. It looks like drawing a very fine distinction in this 
 matter, if it is to be used for school purposes only. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I should like to call your attention to the mathe- 
 matics of Brother Leupp; he says: 
 
 " Suppose that we have a reservation containing 5,000 Indians, 
 to whom there is to be paid in any fiscal year a tribal income of 
 $50,000 " . 
 
 Senator Owen. Presuming that? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes ; he is taking an illustration. 
 
 "This would entitle each individual Indian to $10 as his pro 
 rata share. Suppose that 500 of these Inrlinns petition to have their 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 683 
 
 shares drawn upon for the suppoi't of, say, 40 children at $100 apiece 
 at a certain religious mission school. That costs $4,000, which, de- 
 ducted from the $5,000 due to the 500 petitioners, leaves a balance 
 of $1,000, or $2 apiece, to be paid to the petitioners at the final- 
 payment period of the year." 
 
 But he says, "Forty children at $100 apiece." There would be 
 no such drawing. It would be $10 apiece, or $400, instead of $4,000. 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; and the presumption there is 
 
 Senator Clapp. The presumption is an illustration that so many 
 children would amount to so much money. 
 
 Senator Owen. But the presumption there is on the theory of the 
 per capita distribution, whereas as a point of fact this fund is used 
 for school purposes? 
 
 Senator Clapp. This is practically a per capita under this system. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Is that possible, as Mr. Leupp stated, if you 
 sent 40 children to a sectarian school, whether Catholic or other 
 denomination, that it might cost $100 per pupil; and if so, it would 
 come out of the tribal fund? 
 
 Mr. Carter. It comes out of the tribal funds and might cost $100. 
 
 Senator Townsend. So that instead of having $10 per pupil this 
 would make $100 per pupil. 
 
 Senator Clapp. But, Mr. Carter, you have already stated that in 
 making up this amount you first take the number of petitioners and 
 divide the tribal amounts to be used by that number? 
 
 Mr. Carter. No; the total number of Indians on the reservation. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It comes to the same thing. 
 
 Mr. Carter. The total number of Indians on the reservation 
 divided into the total amount available for school purposes will give 
 the value of the theoretical share. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Then you multiply that share by the number who 
 have petitioned for a particular school? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Not by first saying how much it will cost to run 
 that school, then giving those who were going to that school that 
 iuU amount. It amounts practically to a pro rata. Mr. Leupp shows 
 what the pro rata in his illustration will be — $10 apiece. He imme- 
 diately then goes to work and gives you $100 apiece. Of course, that 
 would violate the propostion. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Mr. Carter admits that is what is done. 
 
 Senator Ciapp. No. 
 
 Senator Townsend. He admits that if you would take 40 children 
 and put them in a sectarian school it may be necessary to pay $100 
 for those children. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Carter does not mean that. 
 
 Senator Townsend. He said that. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is it true that one of these children is boarded by 
 the mission while another who goes to the day school boards itself? 
 
 Mr. Carter. I can answer that question by saying that out of the 
 total number of individuals that are on the reservation only one- 
 fifth possibly, or one-fourth, are eligible for school; therefore we 
 always have four or five times as many petitioners as we have pupils 
 
 ^"^SenS'or Clapp. Still, I understand you get at this amount by 
 dividing the total number so as to get the share which each one would 
 
684 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 be entitled to, and then you find the amount to be put in the contract 
 by multiplying that by the number of petitioners '( 
 
 Mr. Carter. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is certainly what I understood you to say. 
 
 Mr. Carter. After you divide the total number of Indians on the 
 reservation into the total amount of funds available, it gives you a 
 sum of money which represents the value — the voting value — of that 
 individual. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes; I understand. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Now, if there are 500 Indians, possibly only repre- 
 senting 50 eligible pupils, you multiply the voting share, which may 
 be $5, by 500 and you get the total amount that is available for school 
 purposes. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Exactly ; that is just what I have been insisting on. 
 Is that not right ? 
 
 Senator Lane. Mark Twain said, " Oh, hang the explanations ; they 
 fog things up so that nobody can understand them." 
 
 Senator Gronna. Do you think you have carried that out far 
 enough? In giving the illustration of 500 Indians, supposing they 
 apportioned $5 each, that would be $2,500. Now, you did not carry 
 that out. 
 
 Mr. Carter. If the voting value of one share is $5, and 500 In- 
 dians were only in favor of educating their children in mission 
 schools, then the total amount of funds that might be used for mis- 
 sion schools would be five hundred times the $5. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Twenty-five hundred dollars? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Then supposing that only 50 of the children 
 attend this school, the $2,500 is then used up ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. That would not take place, because they are paid 
 according to the number of pupils actually enrolled and in actual 
 attendance. 
 
 Senator Thobipson. How much is paid? 
 
 Mr. Carter. $108 per year. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Suppose we keep the bill as the House has it 
 and not restore the provision which is now under consideration. 
 Will there we any pupils who are now in school who will not be 
 enabled to go to school this year? 
 
 Mr. Cari-er. My understanding is that it does not end the present 
 arrangements with the contract schools. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You mean the omission of that provision in the 
 House — what does not affect it? 
 
 Mr. Carter. I understand that you are refei-iing to whether or 
 not " Education, Sioux Nation " will continue as a treaty fund? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. No; I asked this question: If we leave the bill 
 as it is. 
 
 Mr. Carter. I do not know, then, to what provision you refer. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think you ought to familiarize yourself with 
 the bill. 
 
 The ChaiPvJian (reading) : 
 
 Page 64, line 1 : " For support and maintenance of day and industrial scliools 
 among tlie Sioux Indians, including tlie election and repairs of school buildings, 
 $200,000, to be extended under the agreement with the said Indians. In sec- 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 685 
 
 tion seventeen of the act of March second, eighteen hundred and eighty-nine, 
 wnicn agreement Is hereby extended to and including June thirtieth, nineteen 
 hundred and sixteen. 
 
 Mr. Caeter. I think the present method of managing the mission 
 schools 
 
 _ Senator Robinson. What is all this controversy about then, if that 
 IS the case? 
 
 Senator Owen. Omitting it might ■ 
 
 Senator Robinson. I certainly understood that if that provision 
 was omitted, and the bill passed as the House passed it, that it would 
 amount to a denial of the right to use tribal funds in mission schools. 
 That was certainly my understanding as to the effect of the omission 
 of the provision. 
 
 Senator Owen. The effect of it, as I understand it, is that if this 
 language is not inserted this fund could not be construed to be a 
 treaty fund, an Indian fund, but must be construed as a gratuity of 
 the United States not belonging to the Indians primarily, and there- 
 fore be public funds not subject to such a distribution. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That was my understanding. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That is exactly the situation. Senator. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is my understanding. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Mr. Carter says such is not the case. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. As the bill passed the House, this particular item 
 carried an appropriation of $200,000 for school purposes, but omitted 
 the proviso which made it a treaty fund. As passed by the House 
 it is now a gratuity, and under existing law, and under the decision 
 of the Supreme Court in the Quick Bear case, the money appro- 
 priated and passed by the House can not be used in any way for 
 sectarian purposes. As the amendment is now proposed, it will be 
 available for sectarian purposes. That is the legal situation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That is exactly my understanding of the 
 matter. I now want to ask this additional question : If we pass this 
 provision as it is, will the Government be able to afford school facili- 
 ties for the Indians now in school for the coining year ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The commissioner has answered that question in one 
 of his letters. 
 
 The Chairman. They were read this morning. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I will read from the letter of the Commissioner of 
 Indian Affairs, dated February 8, 1915, as follows : 
 
 Mt Dear Senatoe: In answer to your informal request with reference to 
 what effect the discontinuance of contracts with mission schools for the education 
 of Indian children would have upon the education facilities for Indian children 
 generally, the following statement is submitted: 
 
 The report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for the fiscal year 1914 
 shows that there are approximately 15,000 Indian children, out of a total 
 of 77,000 eligibles, not in school, and as long as such a condition exists 
 the problem of enrolling Indian children in school is of the greatest importance. 
 
 Although most of the unenrolled Indian children are not entitled to enroll- 
 ment in these mission schools, yet if the contracts should be discontinued it 
 would necessarily diminish the available educational facilities. The increased 
 requirements, if thus imposed, would have to be met by increasing the Govern- 
 ment schools and by becoming more dependent upon the public schools, which 
 are not always available or conveniently located for Indian pupils. 
 
 Very truly, yours, ^ „ r, ■ ■ 
 
 (Signed) Oato Sells, Commisstoner. 
 
 Hon. Henet F. AsHtrssT, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs. 
 
686 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senatox- Lane. Let me see that, please. 
 (Letter handed to Senator Lane.) 
 
 Senator Myees. What does that mean in plain English? If this 
 amendment is not put on, will there be some Indian pupils that will 
 not have school facilities who can not go to school ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. You imderstand, gentlemen of the committee, that 
 my many duties at the office will not permit me to become familiar 
 with the details of the educational feature, and for that reason we 
 asked Mr. Carter, who is chief of the school section, to be here to 
 answer these detailed questions. But I will give you the best infor- 
 mation I have. As I understand it, there are about 1,200 pupils in 
 the Sioux country that are now provided educational facilities 
 through the sectarian or mission schools. 
 
 Mr. LusK. How many? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. About 1,200. 
 
 Mr. Ltjsk. Did you say in South Dakota? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. In the Sioux country. I am told that it is 1,200 in 
 both the Sioux country and the Five Civilized Tribes. Is that cor- 
 rect, Mr. Lusk? 
 
 Mr. Lusk. You mean the tribal fund schools? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Lusk. We have contracts for about, I think, between 1,000 
 and 1,200 pupils. That is, in the entire country. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. How many of those are in the Sioux country ? 
 
 Mr. Lusk. Five hundred and fifty- five in the three Sioux schools ; 
 the contracts call for 555. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think the particular item under discussion refers 
 to the Sioux country only, and I am advised by Mr. Lusk that over 
 500 Indian pupils are provided educational facilities in the mission 
 schools. For the next year we might have some difficulty in finding 
 suitable schools for' those children, but the commissioner has stated 
 in his letter that we would have to rely on the free schools and other 
 governmental school facilities. We now lack sufficient school facili- 
 ties to provide for all the Indian children in the United States. 
 
 Senator Myers. That would mean that for the next year about 500 
 of them would get no benefit of any schooling. Is that what it would 
 
 mean 
 
 « 
 
 Mr. Lusk. It would mean about 200 that are in our mission schools. 
 
 Senator Owen. We know about this, do we not, Mr. Chairman? 
 Can we not call the question? 
 
 Senator White. I do not understand it. 
 
 Senator Owen. May I present this matter? I do not pretend to 
 be particularly expert, but I think I can state what the essence of it 
 is. The Government of the United States made a treaty with the 
 Sioux by which $200,000 was to be used for school purposes during 
 20 years. The 20 years expired. Then it was extended one year at 
 a time, this $200,000 being extended as a treaty agreement in order 
 to put it in the status of Indian funds — that is, funds belonging to 
 the Indians — that is, funds which might be applied by a vote of the 
 Indians, because it was their money — but Congress passed an act 
 providing that the gratuitous funds out of the Federal Treasury 
 should not in any degree be used for sectarian purposes. By cutting 
 off the provision that this is a fund due to the extension of the treaty 
 it could no longer be interpreted as a treaty fund, but must be inter- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 687 
 
 preted as a gratuity of the Federal Treasury, not subject in any 
 degree to -sectarian purposes. Putting in this proviso, therefore, 
 leaves the law as it has been heretofore to regard this fund as an 
 extension of the Sioux treaty and as a treaty fund. 
 
 Senator White. That is a fiction, is it noit ? 
 
 Senator Owen. It is a fiction in one sense. 
 
 Senator White. Is it not entirely a fiction ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Congress has the right to extend a treaty itself, 
 because Congress provided many years ago that it would not make 
 new treaties ; that hereafter it would be a statute, not a treaty at all. 
 They call them agreements in recent years, and they ratify an agree- 
 ment by an act of Congress, not by the Senate of the United States 
 in the form of a treaty, and this old treaty was ratified by the Senate 
 of the United States, and Congress has regarded this treaty as a 
 continuing treaty. 
 
 Senator White. That is, they attempt to revise year by year ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; to revise year by year, which is within the 
 competency of Congress to do. 
 
 Senator White. The purpose, then, is really to make a treaty 
 fund, when in fact it is not a treaty fund ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; and then it comes down to the question. If it 
 is a treaty fund, shall these Indians be permitted to indicate their 
 wishes, and shall the fund be used to this extent? Is that not cor- 
 rect as I have stated it? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I think you have stated it correctly. 
 
 Senator Myees. About 200 Indian pupils would get the benefit of 
 this $200,000, as I understand, in mission schools. How much would 
 that amount to in money; how much of the $200,000, how many 
 dollars out of the $200,000, would go to these 200 mission schools? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. As I understand, it costs about $108 per capita in the 
 mission schools for the education of Indian children. 
 
 Senator Mtees. Then, $20,000 out of $200,000 would leave a bal- 
 ance of $180,000, which would go to the Government schools, would 
 it not? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Of course. 
 
 Senator Mxees. Does that go to the Government schools, Mr. 
 Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. Under the law, that would be available for educa- 
 tional purposes. 
 
 Senator Lane. For the remaining Indians who go to Government 
 schools, and if there is any residue left, to these same Indians that 
 have gone to the mission schools. • 
 
 Senator Mtees. How many of these Sioux children go to Govern- 
 ment schools? Can you tell me? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. About 2,500 altogether. 
 
 Senator Lane. Are these mission schools day schools or boarding 
 
 schools ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They are boardmg schools. 
 
 Senator Lane. What are the Government schools, day or board- 
 
 ^°Mr Meeitt. Some are day schools and some are boarding schools.. 
 Senator Lane. Does it cost more to run a day school for the Gov- 
 ernment than it does the missionaries to run a boarding school? 
 
688 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The day schools cost very much less. A Government 
 boarding school costs on an average more than a mission boarding 
 school. . 
 
 Senator Lane. "We are, then, at all times here comparmg (jovern- 
 ment boarding schools with the mission boarding schools, or are we 
 mixed on that again ? How much of these funds are used for Gov- 
 ernment boarding schools, how much for Government day schools, 
 and how much for the mission schools in any one particular item, 
 so we can get an idea? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I will ask Mr. Carter to answer that question. 
 
 Mr. Caetee. The funds not used for the mission schools among 
 these tribes are used for both the Government boarding and day 
 schools. 
 
 Senator Lane. And you do not segregate the amount? You have 
 no segregated account, have you? 
 
 ^Mr. Caetee. No, sir. 
 
 'Senator Townsend. What objection could there be if this $200,000 
 be considered as belonging to the children, to the tribes, to prorating 
 it per child, and allowing the pro rata share only to each child to go 
 toward his education in a mission school? 
 
 Mr. Caetee. After the funds have been segregated it belongs to 
 the individual, and he can spend it at whichever school he wants to. 
 If he wants to go to a private school 
 
 Senator Townsend. That would not affect the property rights of 
 any other child on the reservation, then? 
 
 Mr. Caetee. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. But is there any objection to that? 
 
 Mr. Caetee. No, sir. That is a matter of policy, purely, though. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. So far as policy is concerned, and so far as I am per- 
 mitted to answer, I will say that I see no objection whatever to the 
 segregation of all tribal funds and placing those tribal funds to the 
 credit of individual Indians ; and then, if those individual Indians 
 want to use those tribal funds for sectarian purposes, that should be 
 permissible. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Is not that the solution of this problem? 
 Does it not answer our objection — ^the objection of Senators who 
 object to Government money or tribal money being used for sectarian 
 purposes — ^if we would segregate these funds, if we will apportion 
 it among the Indians according to their pro rata share and allow 
 each Indian to determine what shall be done in the way of education 
 with his share? 
 
 Senator White. Distribute according to educationable children? 
 
 Senator Townsend. Yes ; it seems to me that would be right. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What would you do with such pro rata shares 
 as were not used by the Indian of school age? 
 
 Senator Townsend. Let it be credited to him, so he shall receive 
 it in some form or other. Let him have it. If he is not being 
 educated, he ought to have it for some other purpose. It should be the 
 object and aim of the Government to educate him in the Government 
 schools. 
 
 Senator Page. You would first have this fund segregated before 
 you made apportionment. Senator? 
 
INDIAK APPEOPKIATION BILL. 689 
 
 Senator TowNSEND. Yes; I would have it apportioned among the 
 Indian children; let each one have his share, and let him do what 
 he pleased with it so far as education was concerned. 
 
 Senator Page. The sentiment in my section of the country, I think, 
 is pretty strong that where there is an undivided fund, or a public 
 fund, that we ought to adapt ourselves to the American spirit, which 
 has been frequently expressed here by legislation, and not use it for 
 sectarian schools. In saying that I do not want to take a sectarian 
 position, because I do not feel it. I mean to be liberal in regard 
 to those matters; but here are some very brief communications, and 
 I will read perhaps two or three of them to show the feeling in the 
 East. The first is from the United Society of Christian Endeavor. 
 
 United Society of Christian Endeavor, 
 
 Boston, January 23, 1915. 
 Hon. Caekoll S. Page, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. C. 
 Sir Deab Mr. Page : Please allow me to express tlie strong hope tliat the 
 smsndment suggested by Mr. t'arl E. Grammer to the Indian aprpopriation act, 
 to the effect that hereafter no tribal Indian funds shall be expended for the 
 support of any sectarian or private school without the previous consent of 
 Congress, may be inserted in the act. 
 
 I think I know something of the views of the several millions of members 
 connected with the Christian Endeavor Societies in all the different denomina- 
 tions and in all the States of America, and feel sure that sectarian appropria- 
 tion of any sort would be resented by them as contrary to the American spirit 
 of fair play and the immemorial principle of the separation of church and state. 
 With high respect and sincere regards, 
 Faitlifully yours, 
 
 Francis E. Clark. 
 
 The next is from the Twentieth Century Club, as follows : 
 
 The Twentieth Centtjbt Club, 
 
 Boston, Mass., Jamiary 27, 1915. 
 Hon. C. S. Page, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 Mt Dear Sir: May I express to you my sincere approval of the clause at- 
 tached to the Indian appropriation bill that, " hereafter no tribal Indian fimds 
 shall be expended for the support of any sectarian or private school without 
 the previous consent of Congress." This policy seems to me to be the only 
 safe one in connection with Indian education, and I sincerely hope that it will 
 not be changed. 
 
 I am, very sincerely, yours, 
 
 Edward H. Chandler. 
 
 Here is one from the Evangelistic Association of New England, 
 
 and one from the Christian Endeavor World. 
 
 Evangelistic Association op New England, 
 
 Boston, Mass., January 22, 1915. 
 
 Hon. C. S. Page, 
 
 Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. C. 
 Dear Mb Page- I am writing to express the hope that the Committee on 
 Indian Affairs in the Senate will not insert in the pending act the clause which 
 was stricken out by the House of Representatives relative to money for 
 Indian education; and in so far as you can do so consistently, prohibit through 
 the committee the further expenditure of funds available for Indian education 
 lor support of private or sectarian schools wherever located. 
 
 Sincerely, yours, ^^ ^ Saytoed, General Secretary. 
 
 82833 — ^VOI. 1 — 15 44 
 
690 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 The Cheistian Endeavor World, 
 
 Boston, Mass., January 26, 1915. 
 Hon. C. S. Page, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, D. G. 
 Dear Sir: I am much surprised to learn that the appropriations for the 
 support of sectarian schools among the Indians are riot discontinued, as prac- 
 tically all the country thought they were, and that a provision for the appropria- 
 tion of $200,000 for this purpose to be used among the Sioux Indians was in- 
 cluded in the Indian appropriation act presented to the House. This appropria- 
 tion w;is stridden out by the House on January 9, and I earnestly hope that it 
 will not be inserted by your committee in the Indian appropriation act which is 
 before you, and that you will so amend the act that hereafter no tribal Indian 
 fund shall be expended for the support of any sectarian or private school with- 
 out the previous consent of Congress. 
 Very respectfully, yours, 
 
 Amos R. Wells. 
 
 Senator Lane. If the Government is not furnishing school facili- 
 ties sufficient for the children that need to be educated, that protest 
 does not amount to much with me. If some church furnishes them 
 with school facilities and the Government fails to do so, and the 
 church does it for less money than it costs the Government to run 
 the schools, I think that the church should be given credit for it. 
 
 Senator Page. I have several of those letters. That is all I wish 
 to read at this time. 
 
 The Chairman. As chairman of the committee I ought to state 
 that I have I'eceived possibly several score of letters from eminent 
 people, of all sects and creeds, protesting against " public funds be- 
 ing taken to support sectarian schools." I did not feel authorized 
 in any way to write on behalf of the committee, but I did express 
 my own opinion and added that so far as I knew no member of this 
 committee favored the idea of taking the "public funds to support 
 sectarian schools," and replied that those who wrote me evidently 
 had been misinformed, as it was contrary to our policy, contrary to 
 the policy of the American Government to take any " public funds 
 to support sectarian schools." But I stated that where the Indians, 
 in good f aith^ — and not being moved by any propaganda at all — fol- 
 lowing their well-defined religious predilection, petitioned Congress 
 to spend their own Indian funds in a particular way, that was a 
 different question, and I trust I have not misstated the matter when 
 I said that no member of this committee would for a moment dream 
 of taking public funds to support sectarian schools. 
 
 Senator Page. You will notice that the language of Dr. Clark 
 referred to Indian tribal funds. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I go a little further than you do. If the Gov- 
 ernment was in a position to supply these people with Government 
 schools I would still prefer that they be educated in the Govern- 
 ment schools, but since it has not been done, then it occurs to me 
 that it would be a hardship to deprive them of any school facilities 
 at all — of all school facilities that have been furnished them — and 
 at the same time afford them no facilities in lieu of it. I think the 
 primary purpose is to afford them opportunities of education. The 
 statement of the commissioner is — and the little observation I have 
 made confirms it — that there are 15,000 Indians of school age who 
 under the present system have no school facilities. If we keep this 
 clause out of the bill there will be a considerable number of others 
 who will be deprived of the only facilities they now have, which are 
 
INDIAN APPKOPBIATIQN BILL. 691 
 
 the so-called sectarian schools, and at this time I can not find it 
 consistent with my conscience to do that. I think before we estab- 
 lish the policy of denying under all circumstances the use of any 
 Indian funds for sectarian schools that we ought to provide other 
 schools. Of course it would be impossible to do that this year even 
 if we appropriated the money. 
 
 Senator Myers. Have the Sioux Indians made any petition for 
 this? ^ ^ 
 
 The Chairman. Some petitions were included in the record the 
 other day. "What is the situation in respect to that, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that Sioux parents 
 have petitioned that their children be admitted to the mission schools. 
 
 Senator Robixsox. Mr. Lusk filed one petition here. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Lusk, what have you to say? 
 
 Mr. Lusk. I should like to say, Mr. Chairman, that there are peti- 
 tions of the Sioux Indians, of the Crow Creek Eeservation, of the 
 Pine Ridge Reservation, and of the Rosebud Reservation, on which 
 these three mission schools are located, in which they ask that their 
 shares of the three funds that are available for educational pur- 
 poses be devoted to the support of children in those three mission 
 schools. The signing of these petitions are hedged around with the 
 most extreme care. Very elaborate instructions are given to the 
 superintendents as to the way in which these petitions may be 
 signed. The Indians themselves have to come to the agent's office 
 and the agent has to explain the nature of the petition, to answer any 
 questions that the Indians may have ; and so careful has the Indian 
 Office been that in one case where there were quite a number of In- 
 dians assembled near the St. Francis Mission School on a sort of 
 picnic, or function of some kind, who signed this petition in the 
 presence of one of the officials of the Rosebud Agency, the Com- 
 missioner of Indian Affairs refused to accept those signatures be- 
 cause the instructions from the office had not been followed out, 
 these Indians not having gone to the agent's office and given their 
 signatures. 
 
 May I be allowed to say just one word? I do not want to take the 
 time of the committee unnecessarily, of course. 
 
 The Chair3Ian. I have no objection to any part of the controversy- 
 being heard briefly. 
 
 ABDITIONAL STATEMENT OF CHAELES S. LUSK. 
 
 Mr. Lusk. Simply as to this matter of the money that is devoted 
 to education in these mission schools. The rule followed by the In- 
 dian Office— the assumption being, of course, that the Indian Office 
 follows the instructions given to it by the President oi the United 
 States— is this : Each Indian in a tribe is to be credited with his pro 
 rata share of the funds due, either to be applied to the Government 
 school, if that is the school used, or the church school where that is 
 the school used. Now, the pro rata share of the bioux Indians m the 
 three funds available for educational purposes is about $33. A peti- 
 tion comes up from each one of these reservations that contain a cer- 
 tain number of signatures which represent a certain number of shares. 
 This pro rata, multiplied by the number of shares, gives the amount 
 
692 INDIAN .APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 available for the education of a certain number of children, and fol- 
 lowing that a certain number of children are contracted for. That 
 amount that is applied to each particular contract is the interest that 
 the signers had in these funds. It in no way takes a dollar of the 
 interest that any other Sioux Indian has in those funds. If at any 
 time there is a residue — which of course there will not be because this 
 is simply theoretical, these funds never being distributed— these 
 Indians who have signed the petition will have been charged with 
 their pro rata share of these three funds and there will be nothing 
 for them, unless there should be a sufficient amount of money to give 
 them an excess of $33 ; then, of course, they would get the excess, but 
 they would not get a dollar of any other Indian's money. 
 
 As to this question of school accommodation, the Government 
 has 
 
 Senator Geonna. Before you go to that, Mr. Lusk, do you mean 
 that is the practice of the department or that is the law ? 
 
 Mr. Ltjsk. What I quoted? 
 
 Senator Geonna. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Lttsk. It is the practice — the rule laid_ down by the President 
 when this matter of tribal funds was determined. 
 
 The report of the Commissoner of Indian Affairs for 1914 shows 
 the school population of South Dakota to be 4,881. The capacity 
 of the Government reservation schools in that State is 2,482 ; of the 
 nonreservation schools, 970; of the public schools, 624; of the mis- 
 sion schools outside of the Catholic — and of course we would hardly 
 regard the mission schools — ^the Catholic mission schools — as furnish- 
 ing accommodations for the children that are taken out of the mis- 
 sion schools, 145, making 4,221 as the total school capacity, show- 
 ing a deficiency of 660. 
 
 There is another point I want to call attention to. So far as these 
 nonreservation schools are concerned in the State of South Dakota, 
 pupils under 14 years of age are not eligible for admission to a non- 
 reservation school unless they have been through the fourth grade, 
 and such children who may desire to attend those schools will have to 
 have their transportation expenses paid by the parents, while in the 
 case of children that are eligible over 14 years of age it is paid by 
 the Government. 
 
 The mission school on the Pine Ridge Reservation has 128 out of 
 207 pupils that are under 14, an average of 60 per cent; the Crow 
 Creek 36 out of 61, an average of 70 per cent; the Rosebud 226 out 
 of 304, an average of 75 per cent ; so that 490 children out of the 562 
 enrolled in the mission schools are not eligible for placing in the non- 
 reservation schools, except probably a small per cent that have 
 reached the fourth grade ; so there is practically 68 per cent of these 
 children that could not be placed in nonreservation schools. 
 
 Senator Townsein^d. How many children have petitioned to have 
 their money expended in the mission schools? 
 
 Mr. Lusk. The child does not sign the petition. 
 
 Senator Townsekd. How many of the parents for the children — 
 how many of the children are represented in those petitions? 
 
 Mr. Lusk. Five hundred and fifty-five. I beg your pardon. Sena- 
 tor. The children are not represented by the petitions. The peti- 
 tions represent the shares of the petitioners. That is to say, the head 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 693 
 
 of the familj- signs. If he has a wife and three children he repre- 
 sents iire shares. Xow, to get the total of the shares in the petition 
 you multiplj' that by the Aalue of the pro rata share and you get the 
 amount of mcney available ; you divide that by 108, which will give 
 the number of children that may be educated in the school for which 
 the Indians petition. 
 
 Senator TowrNSENo. Are all the children of the petitioners in the 
 Catholic schools or in the mission schools? 
 
 Mr. LusK. I presume so. I presume that all Indians who signed 
 petitions have them in the Catholic mission schools. 
 
 Senator Town send. Do you think there are any of those in the 
 public schools or in the Government schools? 
 
 jNIr. LusK. There may be. There are, I am quite sure, a number of 
 signers of these petitions who have no children at all, but are willing 
 that their share be used for the education of children in these schools. 
 
 Senator Townsend. If they petition for the use of their money in 
 the mission schools and then send their children to the Government 
 schools they have voted that their pro rata share shall be expended 
 in the mission school while they will be educated at the expense of 
 the Government in the Government schools? 
 
 Mr. Ltjsk. That, of course, would not be right and that would be 
 the business of the Indian Office to adjust. They are supposed to know 
 who are in the schools and who are not, and of course they could not 
 go and take the pro rata share and double it up, one for the child in 
 the mission school and one for the child in the Government school. 
 I do not know that there are any such cases. I do know that there 
 are certain of the Indians who signed the petition who have no 
 children at all. 
 
 Senator White. Will you tell me where they get that idea — where 
 they do not have children or where they have only one child — of 
 allowing the parents to become shareholders? 
 
 Mr. LtTSK. Because every Sioux Indian has an undivided interest 
 in these funds. 
 
 Senator White. It is a Government appropriation? 
 
 Mr. LusK. I am talking about the tribal funds. They have no 
 interest in the gratuity appropriation ; that is, they have no voice. 
 
 Senator White. Is this not all a gratuity except for the fiction 
 that it is carried forward as a treaty fund ? 
 
 Mr. LusK. If that clause were left out it is a gratuity appropria- 
 tion, of course. 
 
 Senator Gro^n.^. You said a moment ago if this appropriatioii 
 were made that the number of children without school facilities 
 would be about 200? 
 
 Mr. LusK. Yes, sir. . , . ,,-,,, 
 
 Senator Ghonna. If $108 were appropriated for each child they 
 would hardly require $200,000? 
 
 Mr. LusK. They do not require $200,000. This $200,000 is not 
 used just for one or two schools; it is used for all of the schools in 
 South Dakota — the Sioux schools. 
 
 Senator Owen. This mission school used about $20,000? 
 
 Mr. LusK. The three of them would get about $50,000. 
 
 Senator Owen. The three of them? 
 
694 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Ltjsk. Yes. sir; the three with oA-er 600 pupils' contracts call 
 for about $50,000, and this is not the only fund that is available for 
 education among the Sioux. There are two other funds. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I have reference now to your statement that there 
 were other.schools where these children might attend, and that there 
 were only 200 that would be without school facilities. That would 
 require only, according to my figures, $21,600 ? 
 
 Senator Lane. But there are 555 children. 
 
 Mr. Ltisk. But you can not put them in the Government boarding 
 school at $108 apiece. You can not run the Government boarding 
 school at $108. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I was supposing that we would appropriate 
 money for the 200 children that would be without any facilities for 
 attending other schools. 
 
 Mr. Lttsk. You mean to be used in mission schools ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Ltjsk. Well, of course that would be all that would be neces- 
 sary to continue them in our mission schools, $21,600. 
 
 Senator Page. I understand that Dr. Douglas, representing a 
 mission council in New York, is here, and I have been asked to sug- 
 gest that he be allowed to talk with us, and I said I did not want to 
 suggest that unless the other side were here. I should like to hear 
 from Dr. Douglas for just a few moments. 
 
 The Chairman. Very well. 
 
 STATEMENT OF DR. H. PAUI DOUGLAS, REPEESEKTING THE 
 AMEEICAN MISSIONARY ASSOCIATION AND THE CONGREGA- 
 TIONAL BOARD WHICH HAS TO DO WITH INDIAN MISSIONS. 
 
 Dr^ Douglas. There are 200 children who would be without school 
 facilities, as Mr. Lusk thinks. Speaking of the Eosebud Reservation, 
 and referring to the report of the Indian Office of last year you will 
 find that 75 of them can be taken care of in the Government boarding 
 school. I was there in October. I went into the schoolrooms; I 
 went into the dormitories ; I went into the mess hall ; I went around 
 the grounds. 
 
 The reason it costs a lot to run the Government boarding school 
 is because frequently it is not full. The commissioner reports that 
 that school has accommodations for 200 and has an enrollment of 
 125. The statement of Mr. Lusk just now was to the effect that 68 
 per cent, or in all 490 out of the pupils now in the mission schools, 
 are not available for the nonreservation Government schools because 
 they are under 14 years of age. They are available for the Govern- 
 ment day schools. I will not attempt to answer that question, but I 
 raise the question whether it is not better for a pupil under 14 years 
 of age to be at home attending day school. I went around the day 
 schools. The day schools are underattended. The average per 
 teacher is too small — very much too small. Then, also, those above 
 14 years of age can go to the nonreservation Government schools, if 
 you will take the list of the nonreservation Government schools to 
 which the Sioux Indians already go — I have not the figures exactly, 
 but I will say that there are some of them in the neighboring States 
 and in South Dakota, and in Nebraska, that are not fully occupied ; 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 695 
 
 SO that I think I could guarantee, although without knowing the 
 exact ages of these 200 pupils I could not exactly guarantee— yet I 
 am quite confident that if I had the responsibility I could place 
 almost every one of those children in existing Government schools, 
 where they belong, either in the day school, if they are under 14 
 years, where they could be educated close at home and under more 
 natural surroundings and without crowding; or, in the Government 
 reservation schools, which at least in the case of the Eosebud Reserva- 
 tion can take 75 of them or in the nonreservation Government schools, 
 to which some of them could go along with their friends and neigh- 
 bors who are already there. In other words, the question is not the 
 number of the theoretical school population and the actual accommo- 
 dations, but the practical school accommodations, the number you can 
 actually get to go to school and how they might be placed and dis- 
 tributed. 
 
 I believe from an inspection of the field, not having gone every- 
 where, but having gone to many typical day schools on the reser- 
 vations, and having seen this particular boarding school of which I 
 speak and to which this particular appropriation will be applicable, 
 that the 200 pupils could be taken care of almost entirely in existing 
 schools. 
 
 The Chairman. We are glad to hear from you. Mr. Brosius, do 
 you wish to make a statement ? 
 
 ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF S. M. BROSIUS, OF THE INDIANS 
 RIGHTS ASSOCIATION. 
 
 Mr. Brositjs. Mr. Chairman, I should like to make a further brief 
 statement. It seems to me that the pertinent question here that has 
 been raised is whether public funds are proposed to be used for 
 sectarian purposes. Mr. Carter has stated that in arriving at the 
 pro rata share all the funds of the Sioux, including the item pro- 
 posed of $200,000 by an extension of the treaty, are used in arriving 
 at that pro rata share. That is well set forth, clearly set forth in 
 the commissioner's letter, which appears at page 603 of the present 
 hearing, already printed, volume 7. The three items set out : . 
 
 Interest on Sioux fund, Pine Ridge, education, $31,315.49 ; 
 
 Support of Sioux of different tribes, subsistence and civilization, $200,000 ; and 
 
 Education, Sioux Nation, $200,000. 
 
 I want to say that it has been a question whether that fund is 
 applicable for school purposes. "We do not really think that it is, 
 and the department has avoided charging that up for school pur- 
 poses heretofore so far as possible. In one or two instances I think 
 they have used a part of that fund. 
 
 Then the third item is the education of the Sioux Nation, $200,000, 
 which is the appropriation, and to which this item now is in issue 
 by extending the agreement of March 2, 1889, to make it a treaty 
 fund. It must be plain to all that that will become, or is, if you 
 appropriate it without any clause, that is sought for, public money 
 of the United States. If there is no obligation to the Indians, then, 
 no matter what extension of the treaty you may make it isstill a 
 contribution from the public funds of the United States and in 
 
696 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 violation of existing law as determined after a long controversy in 
 1895 to 1900. 
 
 I have just a brief statement, as follows : 
 
 Bbi-oee the Committee on Indian Atfairs, United States Senate, in ee 
 Appkopkiation fob Sectakian Schools (H. K. 20150) — Supplemental State- 
 ment, FEBEtTARY 11, 1915. 
 
 By a fair interpretation of tlie quotation made by me in the " memorandum," 
 dated January 15, 1915 (page 67 of tlie Senate hearings on H. R. 20150), in 
 which I quoted from tlie opinion of the Supreme Court in the case of Quick 
 Bear v. Leupp, and which is styled "disingenuous" by Mr. Lusk (page 614 of 
 hearings), who represents the Bureau of Catholic Indian Missions, it will be 
 understood that I made reference to tlie use of public funds of the United 
 States and not to money belonging to the Indians. In fact the " memorandum " 
 specifically mentions " public money " in applying the principle laid down by the 
 court. 
 
 In considering the pending amendment to the Indian appropriation act (H. R. 
 20150) proposing to expend the fund of .$200,000 under the provision of section 
 seventeen, of the agreement with the Sioux Indians, approved March 2, 1889 
 (25 Stat. L., 895), which ;iuthorizes benefits for schools to be continued for 
 twenty years after the act became effective, the fact should not be overlooked 
 that the obligation of the Government by that provision terminated on February 
 10, 1910, the latter date being twenty years after the President declared the 
 agreement " to be in full force and effect " (26 Stat. L., 1554) ; hence all subse- 
 quent appropriations must necessarily be from public funds of the United 
 States. 
 
 The letter heretofore submitted to your committee at the hearings on the pend- 
 ing bill (pages 513 and 603 of hearings) from the Assistant Commissioner of 
 Indian Affairs, addressed to S. M. Brosius, dated January 28, 1915, shows that 
 the total of the three principal funds for Sioux subsistence, civilization, and 
 schools by the decision of the department were used in arriving at the pro rata 
 share due to members of the Pine Kidge Band of Sioux, being a total of $431,- 
 315.49. all of which was held to be applicable for support of schools. The peti- 
 tioning Indians who secure a diversion of their pro rata shares for contract 
 (sectarian) schools are permitted thereafter to share equally with all other 
 members of that tribe in all benefits granted to the tribe growing out of the 
 same funds. 
 
 S. M. Beositts, 
 Agent Indian Rights Association. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do you claim that this is an illegal diversion of 
 public funds? 
 
 Mr. Brosius. It is an illegal diversion and has been stated by a 
 fiction of law to make a unilateral extension of the treaty. It is 
 really public funds which the United States has given to these In- 
 dians. It can not be any other way if a person reasons it out. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Sloan has informed the chairman that he 
 wishes to speak a few moments. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. THOMAS L. SLOAN. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I have been up on the 
 Pine Kidge and Rosebud Reservations. I spent a few weeks on the 
 Rosebud Reservation last summer. Gentlemen have spoken of the 
 matter rather from the Indian point of view. There are not suffi- 
 cient school facilities upon the Rosebud Reservation at the present 
 time, my understanding being that upon the Pine Ridge, Rosebud, 
 and Crpw Creek Reservations there are some 200 children without 
 school facilities. There are about 500 children in the mission schools 
 on the Pine Ridge Reservation, on the Rosebud, and on the Crow 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 697 
 
 Creek. The thing that appeals to me most particularly is that this 
 Government wishes to furnish Indian children with educational 
 opportunities and to force them as far as possible, and if anything is 
 done which cuts off any of the existing schools there will be that 
 many more children thrown upon the country without any school 
 facilities. 
 
 I feel that those reservations, situated in a cold, bleak country, 
 where the soil itself offers very little returns to the Indians, that the 
 most that they can get is an education, and there are a great many 
 Catholics upon those reservations who will not send their children, 
 if they can help it, to any other than a Catholic institution, and un- 
 fortunately, although a larger sum of money is expended for the 
 care of the children in the Government schools, they do not receive 
 equally good care as the children get in the .other schools, at least 
 those I know of upon the Eosebud Sioux Keservation. 
 
 I feel that if this Congress makes an appropriation of a large 
 sum for educational purposes it ought to be used for educational 
 purposes, and there ought not to be any balance to be divided up 
 pro rata when there are children out of school, as I know there are 
 upon these reservations ; and I think that under the present circum- 
 stances either that the schools that are taking care of the- children 
 ought to be permitted to do so, or if any balance of funds remain, 
 that the Government ought to use it to provide necessary school 
 facilities. 
 
 Senator Lane. You are an attorney, and I should like to ask you 
 if you consider this expenditure an illegal diversion of public funds 
 for sectarian purposes? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I think not. 
 
 Senator Mters. I will say this, merely in explanation of my vote. 
 I do not know that I ani entirely clear on this matter. I feel that 
 with me it has been a case of much confusion and little understand- 
 ing. That may be my fault. I knew practically nothing of it when 
 I came up here this morning. I have not been able to be here at 
 any of the previous arguments or statements. I have tried to gain 
 a little information here, and I think I have succeeded in obtaining 
 a little. As a general rule and on principle I am opposed to ap- 
 propriating Government money for sectarian schools. I believe that 
 the Government ought to provide schools to educate the Indian chil- 
 dren — I think it is the duty of the Government to do so. I agree 
 with Senator Kobinson that where the Government does provide 
 sufficient facilities, even though Indians may petition to be edu- 
 cated otherwise, I believe they ought to be required to be educated 
 in Government schools; that it is the duty of the Government to 
 furnish adequate school facilities. In this case it appears to me, 
 from what light 1 can get, that there are about 2,700 school children 
 here affected; that about 200 of them are in sectarian schools, and 
 that this practice has been going on for some years; and that if 
 this amendment is not put in those 200 children will be, practically, 
 for the coming year without school facilities. 
 
 There is some dispute about that. One outsider says yes, and 
 another says no ; but I take the statement of the Government officials 
 here, the representatives of the Indian Bureau. I simply stand on 
 their statement that if this amendment is not made there would be 
 
698 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 about 200 of these children for whom it would be difficult, if not 
 impossible, to find schooling facilities the present year in the Gov- 
 ernment schools. 
 
 I think the Government ought, as speedily as possible, overcome 
 this situation ; that it ought to provide sufficient Government schools ; 
 and when they are provided that all Indian children ought to be 
 required to attend them. But it does not seem that has been the 
 case so far; and, under my understanding of the matter for the 
 present year at least, I can not see my way clear to vote to exclude 
 200 children from school facilities for the coming year; and while 
 I do not believe in this as a matter of principle, for the present year, 
 under the circumstances as I understand them, I shall vote for the 
 amendment. 
 
 Senator Lane. I should like to ask the Senator, as he is a dis- 
 tinguished attorney and has been a judge on the bench in his 
 State 
 
 Senator Myers. I must deny the compliment. 
 
 Senator Lane. I should like to ask you, in good faith, whether 
 you think this would be an illegal diversion of public moneys to 
 sectarian purposes, for that is forbidden, as I understand it. 
 
 Senator Myers. I do not think that anything on which Congress 
 has the right to legislate and which Congress orders is illegal. Con- 
 gress doing it makes it legal. 
 
 Senator Lane. That legalizes this. It does a lot of things, I know. 
 
 Senator Mters. That is for the courts to say. 
 
 Senator White. I am opposed to the Government interfering by 
 appropriating money for sectarian purposes. I think the act of Con- 
 gress referred to heretofore enacted determines that question for us, 
 that the Government funds, gratuities, shall not be appropriated for 
 sectarian purposes, I do not care for what church. Now, there is 
 $200,000 of this money that is a gratuity, unquestionably, and the only 
 means by which that is avoided is by perpetuating a fiction, namely, 
 that this treaty provision will be extended from year to year so as to 
 make it an Indian fund instead of a Government fund. By doing 
 that we not only make a contribution to a sectarian fund, but we run 
 into another difficulty, and that is we permit those who have no chil- 
 dren to have a voice in the distribution of this fund. We further 
 permit those who have a fewer number of- children a greater voice 
 in the distribution of the fund in proportion than those who have a 
 larger number. In other words, one man and one woman with one 
 child can give that child three times as much share in the distribu- 
 tion of the funds as some child would have who had numerous broth- 
 ers and sisters. Therefore I am opposed to this. 
 
 Another thing is that we are putting a sectarian school in competition 
 with the Government as long as we do it. I know many people, and 
 have known many people, who would not send their children to a 
 public school. They had to take their share of the loss, because the 
 Government proposes to educate in Government schools. As long as 
 we keep up these appropriations for sectarian schools we will not 
 have a provision for the education of these children ; therefore I am 
 not in favor of the amendment and shall vote against it. 
 
 Senator Owen. I should like to make this observation, that I re- 
 gard this act of Congress as a pro tanto abrogation of the ordinary 
 rule. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 699 
 
 Senator White. The present act? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. I confess I have listened to the various statements 
 until I find myself somewhat disturbed in mind. I do not really 
 know which is the right of the case, but I think I shall solve the doubt 
 m my own mind by adhering to the proposition taken by Senator 
 White. 
 
 The question being taken" by yeas and nays, resulted as follows : 
 
 Yeas : Senators Myers, Lane, Eobinson, Thompson, Owen, Clapp, 
 and the chairman. 
 
 Nays : Senators White, Page, Gronna, and Townsend. 
 
 So the amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the item on page 65, 
 relating to the Five Tribes, with reference to leasing, be stricken out. 
 1 make the point of order on it. 
 
 The Chairman. That is the item beginning on line 21, page 64. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. You mean commencing on line 9, page 64, down 
 to and including line 16, page 65 of the print. 
 
 The Chairman. The matter referred to is as follows : 
 
 That no farming or grazing lease executed by a member or members of the 
 Five Civilized Tribes covering lands from which restrictions upon alienation 
 have not been removed shall be valid unless approved by some officer or officers 
 located in the State of Oklahoma, designated by the Secretary of the Interior for 
 that purpose, under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe: Provided, 
 That all such leases shall be either approved or disapproved by the officer or 
 officers designated by the Secretary of the Interior for that purpose, within 30 
 days after said leases shall have been completed and filed with the officer subject 
 to whose approval the lease is executed. 
 
 The Chair does not imderstand that in committee a point of order 
 can be made, but if the Senator objects to it the committee can vote 
 on it. Do you object to the amendment? 
 
 Senator Owen. I object to the amendment. 
 
 Senator Page. I have always thought that a point of order should 
 be made on the floor of the Senate. 
 
 Senator Owen. It can be made in committee. It is obviously 
 changing the existing law. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Of course, if it is subject to a point of order 
 it is idle to pursue it in committee, if the Senator proposes to make 
 that point. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that it go out of the bill. 
 
 Senator Page. That motion is perfectly competent. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I favor the provision myself. I shall not vote 
 to strike it out unless the Senator from Oklahoma throws some light 
 upon the situation. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; unless we have some reason for it. 
 
 Senator Owen. It changes existing law. It would have the effect 
 of simply tying up the people of that country. We have sent down 
 there a number of people to act in an advisory capacity for these 
 Indians— to advise them. They, of course, have always been re- 
 garded as the Five Civilized Tribes, and it is assumed they are not 
 town Indians, or people quite of that class. There are some of them 
 who are ignorant, but the theory upon which the Government 
 adopted the primary plan of forbidding the alienation ot lands and 
 Dermitting the leasing of lands was that they would have practically 
 the handling of their own property, and m that way they would learn 
 
700 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 after a time to handle their property advisedly. This, of course, 
 changes that system and turns it over entirely to the department, 
 and they could not do anything unless they got the vise of the depart- 
 ment. Take a man who is in that class who wants to rent land. He 
 makes an agreement with the allottee to cultivate a piece of land 
 and then he has to await the red tape of the department, and he does 
 not know whether it is going to be acted on or not, and the time 
 just runs along and he is left in the air about it. The probability 
 is that if these matters went into the court they would take some 
 months in settlement. 
 
 Senator Robinson. But the provision here is that it must be dis- 
 posed of within 30 days. 
 
 Senator Oaven. But if they do not do it, then it remains in the air. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Why do you not enlarge that amendment ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I am not in favor of that. 
 
 Senator Page. Is this an amendment that takes anything out of 
 the Treasury? 
 
 Senator Owen. It does not take anything out of the Treasury. 
 We tried that down there once, but they could not do anything 
 with it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. But you have also tried the other system. 
 Does that work satisfactorily? 
 
 Senator Owen. In some cases it does not. You will find difficulties 
 in any system. In some cases those people have been overreached. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is it not true that they have been in a great 
 many cases? 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think in a proportionate way. They have 
 been in many cases, because there is competition, and that compe- 
 tition operates. 
 
 Senator White. Do they know how to take advantage of the 
 competition ? 
 
 Senator Owen. The fellows who are competing know how to make 
 proposals. 
 
 Senator White. Do they know enough about it to avail themselves 
 of the benefit of the competition? 
 
 Senator Owen. In some cases they do, but not in all cases, be- 
 cause there are some people who are grossly ignorant who are always 
 overreached in any system except where the Government takes charge 
 of it and does not give them discretion in the matter. 
 
 Senator White. Do you think that results in any real abuse? 
 
 Senator Owen. I think in some cases it has resulted in abuse. Of 
 course if we have Government employees looking out in every in- 
 stance under a sweeping law, then the abuse is just the other way, 
 but the red tape involved in that matter would delay the cultivation 
 of the land, and it would take away from the Indian the oppor- 
 tunity of initiative to develop himself for handling property. That 
 \Yas the issue upon which the law of 1808 was based. 
 
 Senator White. You think on the whole tliat it would be better to 
 strike this out? 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think thi* is the proper place to adjust 
 that. I thought it could be done and suggested to the commis- 
 sioner to draft it, but a violent protest arose from the members of 
 the Oklahoma delegation. They came to me and protested very 
 strongly against it. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 701 
 
 Senator Robinson. I want to make a suggestion. I think it has 
 been demonsti-ated that under the existing system there is practically 
 no such thing as competition. I think the way these leases are 
 actually made, where there is no supervision of it at all as to incom- 
 petent Indians, is that the persons who desire to deal in this con- 
 nection usually agree among themselves as to Avhat leases they shall 
 secure and they get the Indian in many cases to enter into an im- 
 provident agreement. Now, the fact that there is somebody who 
 is competent, and who has to pass on that matter, tends to prevent 
 imposition of that sort in my judgment. 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; we have the agents there in those counties to 
 act in an ad\isory capacity, and then we have the probate judges 
 to deal with the minor cases. Of course this deals only with adults. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I know, but they are incompetent 
 
 Senator 0^^'EN. I would not say they were incompetent. I would 
 say their land is restricted. Some of them are incompetent. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The theory of the law is that their restrictions 
 would be removed upon a showing that they were competent. 
 
 Senator 0"\^ten. The theory of the law is that they are restricted 
 to these temporary tribal agreements. 
 
 Senator Lane. They make them for three or five years, do they not ? 
 
 Senator Owen. From one to five years. 
 
 Senator Lane. I think there was a witness before the commission 
 a day or two ago at a public hearing, or one of the governmental 
 employees, who stated there were not only single cases but hundreds 
 of them in which the Indians were being defrauded under existing 
 law. I do not know whether this would remedy that condition or 
 not. 
 
 The Chairman. We all admit that it is subject to a point of order 
 in the Senate. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Yes; I think it is clearly subject to a point 
 of order, and if it is your purpose to make the point of order, it 
 might as well be eliminated here. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I would like to keep it in myself. I feel that 
 it is desirable in form. 
 
 Senator Owen. I shall feel obliged to make a point of order upon 
 it. My delegation is absolutely opposed to it. 
 
 The Chaikman. The question is, Shall the question be stricken out? 
 
 The motion was agreed to. 
 
 INDIAN SCHOOL AT WHITE EARTH. MINN. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, last year we provided $4,000 
 for the high school at White Earth, Minn., and some $500 re- 
 mains. The Indian Office has called my attention to the omission 
 of the item, and I move that in the Minnesota items this item be 
 inserted for a continuation of the $4,000 appropriation, together 
 with the right of the department to use the unexpended balance of 
 $555 remaining from last year's appropriation. 
 
 The item is as follows: 
 
 MEMORANDUM SUGGESTING CHANGE IN OUEKENT APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The item providing $4,000 for the payment of high-scliool teachers at the 
 White Earth Indian School, Minnesota, and also providing that not to exceed 
 $1 000 of this amount may be used to continue the education of boys appomted 
 
702 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 under the provisions of the Indian appropriation bill for the fiscal year 1915, 
 is hereby modified so as to read as follows: 
 
 " For the payment of high-school teachers at the White Earth Indian School, 
 Mnnesota, for instruction of children of the Chippewa Indians in the State of 
 Minnesota, $4,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary to be used under 
 rules to be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior : Provided, That not to 
 exceed $1,000 of this sum may be used to continue the education of boys ap- 
 pointed under the provisions of the act of Congress entitled 'An act making 
 appropriations for the current and contingent expenses of the Bureau of Indian 
 Affairs, for fulfilling treaty stipulations with various Indian tribes, and for 
 other purposes, for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and 
 fourteen,' approved June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and thirteen : And pro- 
 vided further, That the unexpended balance of $555.43 remaining from the 
 appropriation of $4,000 for the higher education of Chippewa boys appointed 
 under the provisions of the said act is hereby reappropriated, made immediately 
 available, and will remain available until expended, under the same provisions 
 as those contained in the original act." 
 
 JUSTIFICATION. 
 
 The effect of the proposed change in the item providing for high-school 
 teachers at the White Earth School, and for continuing the education of Chip- 
 pewa boys will be to strike out the clause making this a reimbursable appro- 
 priation and to permit the expenditure of the balance of the 1914 appropriation 
 for the higher education of Chippewa boys. 
 
 In the act as it now stands the words "the said sum to be reimbursable'' 
 were evidently Inadvertently included, and the act does not designate the source 
 from which the United States is to be reimbursed.. In the case of high-school 
 teachers at the White Earth School particularly it is obvious that it was not 
 intended to have reimbursement made by the teachers employed. As the cur- 
 rent act purports to continue the education of the boys appointed under the 
 provisions of the 1914 act, and it was not the intention of the previous bill to 
 reimburse the Government, it is not probable that it was contemplated that 
 the boys benefited should personally reimburse the United States for the ex- 
 penses connected with their education. It therefore appears that it was not 
 contemplated that this appropriation should be reimbursable. 
 
 During the year 1914 all of the $4,000 appropriation for the higher education 
 of 10 Chippewa boys was expended except $555.43. As the current bill pro^•ides 
 only $1,000 for continuing the education of these boys, and several of them have 
 returned to school on the supposition that their expenses would be provided 
 for this year in the same way as last year, it is desired to use the unexpended 
 balance ,of the 1914 appropriation in continuing the education of these boys, to 
 augment the $1,000 provided in the current bill. 
 
 Good reports have reached the office in regard to the conduct and scholarship 
 of these young men, and it is desired not to lose the use of the unexpended 
 balance of $555.43. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, there is a matter that I think the 
 committee would like an opportunity to discuss in the absence of 
 IMr. Meritt, and if he will retire 1 would like to bring the matter 
 before the committee. 
 
 PAYjrENTS OF INTEREST, ROYALTIES, ETC., TO OSAGE TRIBE. 
 
 Mr. Mep.itt. Mr. Chairman, we hare three items that we ask be 
 incor]3orated in the bill. Two of them are Oklahoma items, and I 
 ^\ ould like to call the items to the particular attention of the Senator 
 from Oklahoma. The committee asked the office recently to prepare 
 an item regarding the distribution of certain moneys to the Osages, 
 and we have prepared the following: 
 
 That payments of interest, royalties, or other trust funds becom- 
 ing due from time to time to any incompetent individual member 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 703 
 
 of the Osage Tribe of Indians under any law may be withheld, in 
 the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, or the funds may be 
 used for the benefit of such Indian or his heirs, under such rules and 
 regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe : Provided, 
 That no part of said funds shall be paid out on account of any 
 usurious obligation or contract. 
 
 JUSTIFICATION. 
 
 The act of June 28, 1906 (34 Stat. L., 539), regarding the subdi- 
 vision of the lands and funds of the Osage Indians, provides (sec. 4, 
 subdivisions 1 and 2) that the interest of the segregated shares of the 
 Osage tribal funds, as well as individual shares of the royalties aris- 
 ing from oil and gas leases, shall be paid quarterly to the members 
 entitled thereto, and that the interest of minors shall be paid to the 
 parents or to the legal guardians where the parents are deceased. 
 
 This law appears to be mandatory and to give discretion to the 
 department to withhold payments of interest of minors only " when 
 the Commissioner of Indian Affairs becomes satisfied that the said 
 interest of any minor is being misused or squandered." 
 
 About $300,000, being the interest on trust funds and oil and gas 
 royalties, is paid to the Osage Indians quarterly. These shares 
 under the present laAV go to the competent and incompetent alike 
 for their unrestricted use. Experience has demonstrated that many 
 of these Indians are as unfit as a child to be given the unrestricted 
 use of these funds. The methods by which some of the unscrupulous 
 characters separate the incompetent Indian from his money are 
 appalling. The Indian pays usurious interest on borrowed money 
 previous to repaying the loan; he demands no canceled notes or 
 receipted bills; he affixes his thumb-mark signature to any paper 
 that he is told to sign ; and then, having used all the money received 
 at the payment in liquidating such debts, he is compelled to again 
 borrow sufficient to tide him over until the next payment. In this 
 manner it is probable that he pays an interest on borrowed funds 
 of not less than 40 per cent per annum. 
 
 It is evident that if the Osage Indians are to receive even approxi- 
 mately the benefits which they might have from these payments, 
 some discretion should be lodged in the department with respect to 
 which of the Indians shall be given the unrestricted use of their 
 money. The purpose of the amendment is to permit the depart- 
 ment to withhold payment and to use the funds for the benefit of 
 the individuals where it is shown that the money has heretofore been 
 misused or squandered. , , ,, „ 
 
 Senator Owen. I would like to know what the theory is upon 
 which they stopped the payments to those people. 
 
 Mr Meritt. Under existing law we are required to pay each 
 quarter more than a quarter of a million dollars to the Osage In- 
 dians There is no discretion left with the Secretary o± the Interior 
 to withhold these funds and use them for the benefit of the Indians. 
 We are required to pay out the actual cash, and it is for the purpose 
 of siving the Secretary of the Interior a larger discretion m the 
 handling of those funds, so that the interests of the Indians may be 
 better protected, that we are asking for this legislation. 
 
704 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. What do you propose to do with those funds? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Where the Indians show that they are absolutely in- 
 oompetent to handle their funds, we propose to use those funds for 
 their benefit. 
 
 Senator Owen. That does not relate to incompetent Indians only. 
 You are assuming that they are all incompetent, are you not? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This would leave it discretionary with the Secretary 
 of the Interior, and we would only apply this to the incompetents. 
 I believe the hearings before the joint commission have disclosed 
 conditions down there that would justify this legislation. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. They certainly have disclosed the necessity for 
 some legislation. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes ; but I do think this is a cure for it, for it has 
 been in the hands of the department for a long time and the de- 
 partment has not protected them ; they have not extended themselves 
 in their behalf. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The trouble is that the department has no discretion 
 in the matter. We are simply required to pay out this money 
 whether the Indians are competent or incompetent. We have no 
 discretion in the matter. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That I understand to be the law, and under 
 that practice funds have been wasted pitiably; there is no question 
 about that. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is a very deplorable condition that needs to be 
 remedied. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think there ought to be a line of competency 
 established and not deal arbitrarily with those people. I have known 
 people to be refused on the ground of competency down in the Five 
 Civilized Tribes who were just as competent as anybody at this table 
 in the management of the little matters that they ha^e. The depart- 
 ment has acted unfairly in some ways, but I am satisfied that at the 
 Osage Agency there is a serious need of something of that kind. 
 This proposed amendment would compel you to draw the line of 
 competency. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think I should make a brief statement with 
 regard to this matter for the benefit of the committee. 
 
 It appears conclusively that at Pawhuska, which is the seat of 
 the Osage Agency, there was paid out an enormous amount of funds 
 for a small annuity, and they were, in a sense, hypothecated before 
 the payments were due. Credit was advanced to the Indians; loans 
 were made to them, and the lowest rate of interest that is charged, 
 according to the undisputed testimony in that locality, to incompetent 
 Indians to whom those payments are made, is 40 per cent per annum, 
 or 10 per cent per quarter. The rate of interest — and it is undisputed, 
 Senator Owen — runs as high as several thousand per cent. 
 
 The Chairman. Several thousand ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. Several thousand per cent; as high as 10,000 
 l)er cent in one instance. That was called to our attention, and the 
 men who are engaged in the practice of lending money at 40 per cent 
 interest are regarded by the community as benefactors and philan- 
 thropists to the Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. And by the department, too. 
 
 Senator Robinson. By representatives of the department. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIAIION BILL. 705 
 
 Senator Owen. "Incompetent" would cover that, do you not 
 think so ? 
 
 Senator Egbinson. Yes ; I do not know that it will work the relief 
 desired, but it certainly will relieve the department of the obligation 
 of paying out funds that belong to the Indians when they know in 
 advance that they are going to be dissipated. The department is 
 <'ompelled now under the law to pay out this fund just as if they 
 were all competent when they know in many instances they are going 
 to pay debts upon which enormous rates of usury have been charged, 
 and I want to say in that connection that the laws with respect to 
 usury in the State of Oklahoma do not seem to afford any protection. 
 
 Senator Owen. No; they are not what they ought to be in Okla- 
 homa. With that word " incompetent " I shall be glad to have this 
 amendment adopted. 
 
 Senator Lane. I want Senator Owen to understand the condition 
 which exists, and which has existed for a long time. What Senator 
 Kobinson says is perfectly true. We had before us representatives 
 of the department and officials who had been employed by the depart- 
 ment, and who are now, I guess, in their employ, and they said that 
 Avhen these illegal notes were brought in to them, carrying 40 per cent 
 interest, they sat down with a pencil and deducted out the usury 
 and paid the balance of the indebtedness to the claimant on the state- 
 ment of the men and the Indians. They remonstrated with him mildly 
 and said : " You are charging too high a rate of interest," but they 
 continued the practice of taking out of every note presented the 
 usurious interest unless it ran for a year. If it ran for about a year 
 and they thought it ate up the usury, then they would overlook the 
 usury. 
 
 Now, there (Senator Page) is a banker, and I suggest to him what 
 kind of an agent or trustee for an individual is it who would sit down 
 and deduct 40 per cent usury ? 
 
 Senator Page. Let me answer your question. I would direct the 
 commissioner to count any man as incompetent who paid 40 per cent 
 interest. 
 
 Senator Lane. But here is a department engaging in that, and I 
 asked the question — and I think it is pertinent, and I do ask it 
 now — Why is it that the agent of the Government and trustee of 
 the Indian could not have held out all the funds, held them in his 
 o-nn hands, and compelled the creditor to sue for the money and 
 prove his case in court ? That would have stopped a lot of it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I want to make a further statement in con- 
 nection with this matter. This record discloses that upon the testi- 
 mony of a person who has been engaged in this usurious line of 
 business among the noncompetent Indians there has never been an 
 instance in his experience, extending over several years, wherein 
 any of these noncompetent Indians have pleaded usury. The diffi- 
 culty lies in the fact that if he pleads usury all he can hope to do is 
 to relieve himself from double the amount of the usurious interest, 
 and the burden is upon him all the way through the proceedings to 
 establish that, which makes it practically impossible for him to do it. 
 
 Senator Lane. I want to ask Senator Eobinson if the Indian 
 agent could not have refused to pay that note and have forced the 
 creditor to go to court? 
 
 - 82833 — VOL 1 — 15 i5 
 
706 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Certainly ; he could have paid the money over 
 to the Indian himself, but the trouble of it is he has got to pay it 
 to the Indian, and if he pays it to the Indian, the Indian must pay 
 the note, usury and all. 
 
 Senator White. Could he not transfer the claim? 
 
 Senator Robinson. Who? 
 
 Senator White. The Indian. Could he not transfer his right and 
 let the transferee collect it in spite of him ? 
 
 Senator Ovpen. No, sir; not under the practice. 
 
 Senator White. They can do that ordinarily. 
 
 Senator Robinson. But the trouble is the Indians do not do as 
 some white people do. .Whenever an Indian signs a note he pays 
 it whenever the money comes due to him, even if it is usurious. He 
 refuses to avail himself of the pitiful protection the law gives him. 
 And another thing 
 
 Senator White. Just one word. Even if the agent would try to 
 protect him, this man could make him transfer to him the claim. 
 
 Senator Robinson. We had an illustration of that yesterday be- 
 fore our commission. One man testified that in adjusting an ac- 
 count between an Indian and a white man the Indian stated that 
 he did not get a carriage which was charged to him in the white 
 man's account, and it was disallowed. The white man took the 
 Indian off to lunch and came back, and the Indian said he wanted 
 to correct a statement that he had made a while ago. He said, "I 
 remember now that I got the carriage ; I did not remember it when 
 I said it, but I got the carriage." Some minutes later it developed 
 that the Indian had never gotten the carriage at all, but he had 
 received some beef during the time we adjourned for lunch, and he 
 corrected his statement — revised his statement. That is an illus- 
 tration. 
 
 Senator Owen. We are agreed on this amendment, are we? 
 
 Senator Lane. I am not in accord with you, for the reason that 
 here is the department, which has had these funds in their hands 
 and made no fight to stop it in the past, you are now enlarging 
 their powers in respect to the affairs of these Indians. I think there 
 is some other method that would be better than enlarging the powers. 
 
 Senator Owen. What would you suggest? 
 
 Senator Lane. I would suggest that no claims be paid upon which 
 usury is being charged for the use of the money. I would make it 
 unlawful; I would make a Federal law and compel these gentlemen 
 to enforce it. You are now allowing them to say that a man is in- 
 competent or competent, and if they do not like him he becomes in- 
 competent very quickly. Can that not be done? 
 
 Senator Owen. Certainly you can do that. 
 
 Senator Lane. If you put that in I will vote for it. 
 
 (The amendment was again read.) 
 
 Senator Owen. '■'■Provided further, That no usurious interest shall 
 be allowed in any event." 
 
 Senator Robinson. That will not cover it. I suggest, ^^ Provided 
 further. That no part of said funds shall be paid to or received on 
 account of any usurious obligation or contract." That is the idea. 
 The language may be revised. 
 
 (The amendment of Senator Robinson was agreed to.) 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 707 
 
 HOSPITALS KIOWA, COMANCHE, APACHE, AND WICHITA TRIBES. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have one other item which I desire to suggest. 
 The proposed item reads as follows : 
 
 So much as may be required of the funds authorized by section 17 of the 
 act of June 30, 1913 (38 Stats. L., pages 77, 92), for maintenance of a hospital 
 for the Kiowa, Comanche, Apache, and Wichita Tribes, Oklahoma, may be 
 used for the purchase of equipment and in mailing necessary repairs and im- 
 provements to said hospital, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 HOSPITAL. FOE KIOWA, COMANCHE, APACHE, AND WICHITA INDIANS, 
 
 OKLAHOMA. 
 
 The accompanying item is for the purpose of permitting the pur- 
 chase, especially, of equipment for the Kiowa Hospital. Unless re- 
 lief can be afforded in this particular, the hospital can not be opened 
 and available for the relief of these Indians. 
 
 The act of August 24, 1912 (37 Stat. L., 518, 529), set apart the 
 sum of $40,000 of the funds of the Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache 
 Tribes for construction and equipment of an Indian hospital. 
 
 The appropriation act of the following year, the act of June 30, 
 1913 (38 Stat. L., 77, 92), provided for the sale of certain lands in 
 order to provide a fund, drawing interest at 4 per cent, " to be known 
 as the Kiowa Agency Hospital fund, to be used only for mainte- 
 nance of said hospital." 
 
 It was the intention of the Indian Office to equip this hospital in 
 accordance with the intention of the act first above cited. Never- 
 theless, owing to circumstances or inadvertency, this was not done. 
 In this connection it may be said that the contract for construction 
 of the hospital did not call for use of the entire $40,000, but the 
 amount which would be required for equipment was somewhat in 
 doubt and was underestimated. 
 
 Furthermore, before completion of the building, certain extras 
 appeared indispensable and this resulted in a further draft upon 
 the balance of the fund. 
 
 It was desired to obtain a hospital for 40 patients and the lowest 
 bid received therefor and the price in the resulting contract was 
 
 Estimates for equipment have now been made up and from these 
 it appears that approximately $8,000 will be necessary for such ordi- 
 nary but necessary equipment as will be required to commence the 
 operation of this institution. There is only a balance of approxi- 
 matelv $900 from the fund arising under the act of August 24, cited, 
 and the funds provided by the act of June 30, 1913, can not prop- 
 erly be used for such permanent equipment. Congress having desig- 
 nated a specific fund for a definite purpose, other and more general 
 funds may not be used therefor. 
 
 In this item has also been embodied a phrase permitting necessary 
 repairs and improvements. This has been done as a precaution for 
 the future as there would be some doubt whether the word "mainte- 
 nance," in the act of June 30, 1913, would be broad enough to m- 
 nlnrle such expenditures. ., » i, . , •, i , 
 
 THq not the intention to enlarge the capacity of this hospital, yet 
 it is quite as essential that money be available for repairs and im- 
 
708 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 provements and the upkeep of the property as for support or opera- 
 tion. 
 
 We have a justification for that item which will go in the record, 
 and I will say in addition to the justification that we have practically 
 completed the hospital for the Kiowa Indians, and need simply a 
 small additional fund to equip the hospital. We are only asking 
 authority to use from the funds that are created from the sale of land 
 sufficient money to properly equip the hospital — not over $2,000 or 
 $2,500. 
 
 PROPERTY OF PIENET KENDALL COLLEGE, MUSKOGEE, OKLA. 
 
 Senator Owen. I want to call up the item with regard to the Henry 
 Kendall College, referred to on page 60 of part 1 of the hearings. I 
 submitted a justification for this item, being a statement of Mr. 
 Oglevee, secretary of the Synod of Oklahoma, dated January 26, 
 1911 ; the sworn statement of Arthur Grant Evans, who was formerly 
 president of the Henry Kendall College, and afterwards president 
 of the University of Oklahoma, and the statements of J. M. Hall; 
 and John Adams, who was town-site commissioner; and Ralph J. 
 Lamb. 
 
 The record is quite complete, and shows substantially the facts as 
 set forth on page 51. With the permission of the committee, I will 
 briefly state the case. 
 
 Henry Kendall College was established as a mission school in about 
 1880 and was conducted by the Presbyterian Church as a mission 
 school, and was devoted to educating the Creek children. They had 
 a piece of property right down the central part of the town of Mus- 
 kogee, about 3 acres. AVlien the Curtis Act was passed, or along about 
 that time, they had given up this 3 acres down in the central part of 
 the town and had taken a tract out in the suburbs of about 25 acres — 
 about a mile out. The land was fenced by them, and they sold this • 
 property they had downtown and converted it into buildings. They 
 put up about $25,000 worth of buildings on this tract of land of about 
 25 acres. They planted it with shade trees and put winding roads 
 through it to make a pleasant little college park. That was their 
 purpose. The Curtis Act became a law containing a sweeping pro- 
 vision that the school might have 10 acres, and accordingly under that 
 provision the town-site commissioners laid off 10 acres and devoted 
 part of the balance to a park to be given to the town at, I think, $10 
 an acre — something like that. I have forgotten what the assessment 
 was, but it was a small assessment. The town was very small; it 
 might be called a village. Nobody regarded it as a prospective city 
 or as having any prospective importance. 
 
 In 1901 the act was passed by Congress modifying the Curtis Act 
 upon the petition of the particular schools, with this language : 
 
 That Henry Kendall College, Nazareth Institute, and Spaulding Institute, 
 in Muskogee, may purchase the parcels of ground occupied by them or which 
 may have been laid out for their use, and so designated upon the plat of said 
 town, at one-half their appraised value, upon conditions herein provided ■ and 
 all other schools and institutions of learning located in incorporated towns in 
 the Creek Nation may in like manner purchase the lots or parcels of land occu- 
 pied by them. 
 
 Now, they had these 25 acres under fence, and with shade trees 
 etc., and it was not occupied. Mr. John Adams, who was the com- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 709 
 
 missioner in charge of this town-lot business, made this further 
 statement : 
 
 vf^J'^nlZ'^^'TT^^''^'''^ "* '^^ agreement (Pub. 112), which we had no doubt 
 had no w» 1, '%^'V'?^"'*'''^ °* *^^ ^""""^ ^'^"^^ i° ^^'"^^ the Creek people 
 sl^SI onr «nho^ /''^•^"'^ '"'"" prepared, the Kendall grounds appraised at 
 m^t hv VL Prfh ^. approved by the Secretary of the Interior, and upon pay- 
 fm l^Z^ Ll lfl^fTJ°°^l^ "^ "''^-^''^^ °* ^^'^ appraisement, $1,690 50, deed 
 aDDro.?rt hTthf f "*^ ^^ ^^^ principal chief of the Creek N«tion and duly 
 appro\ed by the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 ^i,^I°^'u^°^,*^'^^Y^^'^ ^^^ ^^^^^ si^ or seven years. Then it appeared 
 that there had been some fraudulent enrollment of town sites in the 
 Creek council, and attorneys were employed at a 10 per cent con- 
 Vt^^ *^°-^^* ^^^'^^ *^®^^ fraudulent titles, and they brought suit. 
 
 At the same time this institution was denied any further support by 
 Wie Presbyterian board, because the Territory was coming in as a 
 htate in 1907 and it was expected that the necessity for mission 
 schools would no longer exist. Therefore the Presbyterian board 
 thought it was better to withdraw any further support for that pur- 
 pose, but agreed that the property itself might be sold to establish 
 a fund the interest of which should be used in maintaining the con- 
 tinuation of a like school at Tulsa, Tulsa having offered some special 
 advantages to Henry Kendall College to move over to Tulsa, which 
 they did. They therefore entered into a contract to sell out their 
 property which they had acquired in this way by a deed, and a com- 
 pany was organized that proposed to pay them $100,000 for the prop- 
 erty. Just when they had done that, and they had made their agree- 
 ment to go to Tulsa, and had made their contract to sell the land, 
 this suit was brought against them on the ground that they did not 
 have a right to take as much as 25 acres, and the record shows here 
 that they tried to get an immediate settlement in court, but Mr. 
 Lamb testifies, as one of those who negotiated with the attorneys, 
 to this effect: 
 
 Mr. Sturdevant wns very emphatic in his statement that no settlement would 
 be accepted by which the Creek Nation did not secure his property, excepting 
 by a decision of the Supreme Court. 
 
 In fact, it would have taken three years to settle it. In the mean- 
 time these people were in an impossible position. They had made 
 their arrangements to go to Tulsa; they had sold this property, for 
 which they had a deed approved by the Secretary of the Interior, 
 and rather than that it should be hung up for three years they agreed 
 to the terms required by the attorneys and paid $10,000, of which 
 the attorneys got $1,000 under their 10 per cent contract. 
 
 Now, this being a school of a high character, being a charitable 
 organization, it having been established there for the purpose of 
 serving the Creek children, it seems to me that their plea here that 
 they should not be put in the attitude of having attempted to defraud 
 the Creek Nation in any way, should be recognized, and that they 
 should not be left in the attitude of having this money taken from 
 this fund, the interest upon which was to carry on this work, which 
 they originally established, and which put them in a false light, and 
 advantage was taken of their necessity at the time, otherwise they 
 would have yielded, and they were compelled to yield as a matter of 
 exigency. 
 
710 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 I think that states the case very correctly. Capt. Grayson is here, 
 who is quite familiar with the Creek matters. He entered a protest 
 against this, and I would be very glad to have Capt. Grayson given 
 an opportunity to correct any error that I may have made, if I have 
 made any, in regard to this matter. 
 
 STATEMENT OF CAPT. G. W. GBAYSON. 
 
 Capt. Grayson. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, 
 I think Senator Owen had made a very clear statement of the situa- 
 tion with reference to Henry Kendall College. As a Creek Nation, 
 we have never regarded ourselves as at any time in debt to anybody 
 in the -amount of $10,000, especially on account of any of these 
 schools. It appears now, since we have come here at this session of 
 Congress, that about two years ago this claim was preferred against 
 the Creek Nation of $10,000, and the matter was referred to the 
 Interior Department for recommendation. 
 
 (At this point a call for a quorum in the Senate was made, and, 
 upon motion of Senator Eobinson, the committee adjourned until 
 to-morrow, Saturday, February 13, 1915, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 SATUBDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 1915. 
 
 COMMITI'EE ON InDIAN AffAIRS, 
 
 United States Senate, 
 
 Washington, D. G. 
 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Lane (acting chairman), La FoUette, Page, and 
 Gronna. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Senators, a majority of the members of 
 the committee are detained this morning, and as we are not likely to 
 have a quorum present I think it would be well to adjourn until 
 Monday. 
 
 Senator Page. I move that the committee adjourn until Monday 
 next at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 The motion was agreed to; and the committee accordingly ad- 
 journed until .Monday, February 15, at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 711 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 MONDAY, FEBETIARY 15, 1915. 
 
 Committee on "Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate, 
 
 Washington, D. G. 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, Robinson, Owen, 
 Clapp, La FoUette, Page, and Fall ; also Mr. E. B. Meritt, Assistant 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 CONTINTTATION of joint commission to investigate INDIAN AFFAIRS. 
 
 The next item was as follows : 
 
 There is hereby authorized to be continued during the Sixty-fourth Congress 
 the Joint Commission to Investigate Indian Affairs, with powers and duties as 
 provided in the Indian appropriation act of June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and 
 thirteen (Thirty-eighth Statutes at Large, page eighty-one), and the unexpended 
 amount therein appropriated for the expense of said commission is hereby re- 
 appropriated and made available for the purposes therein authorized. Said 
 commission shall make their findings, conclusions, and recommendations to 
 Congress during the Sixty-fourth session. 
 
 The Chairman. That item appears on page 12 of the printed bilL 
 It provides for continuing the energies and activities of the Joint 
 Commission to Investigate Indian Affairs. I have it from rather 
 good authority that a point of order will be made as to that. To my 
 mind the continuance of the energies and activities of the joint com- 
 mission is one of the best things this committee could do. 
 
 Senator Owen. "Wliat did the commission do during the last 
 Congress ? I have not kept up with what they did. Do they make 
 reports as to their work? 
 
 The Chairman. I do not know. I am not a member of the joint 
 commission. 
 
 • Senator Lane. They have not made a final report, but they have 
 made a large series of reports. 
 
 Senator Owen. Have they been printed? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; we have made investigations on different 
 lines ; I do not know how many, but more than anybody would care 
 to sit down and read, I guess. During the last session we were kept 
 in continual session here and could not go out on the field. 
 
 Senator Page. I think it is a good commission— that its personnel 
 is industrious. 
 
 Senator Owen. I have no doubt of that. I have not suggested 
 
 anything to the contrary. I simply had not seen their report. Have 
 
 vou seen the reports ? 
 
 •' 713 
 
714 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Page. Yes. 
 
 Senator Owen. Their reports are printed by our committee, are 
 they? 
 
 The Chairman. No; they are printed by the joint commission. It 
 is wholly dissimilar, and it is in no way coordinated with our work. 
 The printing is done under its own .jurisdiction. I have read some 
 of their reports. This committee has nothing to do with the print- 
 ing. May I report favorably this bill, which is identical in language 
 with what is to be found on page 12 ? 
 
 Senator Page. 3652? I approve. 
 
 The chairman was authorized to report the bill. 
 
 PROPEETT OP HENRY KENDALL COLLEGE, MUSKOGEE, OKLA. 
 
 The Chairman. When we adjourned on Friday we were holding 
 a hearing on the Henry Kendall College matter. 
 
 Senator Owen. I had made a brief statement with regard to it. 
 The facts in relation to it are stated in part No. 1 of the hearings of 
 this committee. I put the data into this committee's records, and it 
 shows that there ought not to be any question about the matter. 
 But the representatives of the Creek Nation entered a protest against 
 it, as did also the chief, Motey Tiger. Capt. Grayson, I am sure, 
 would like to present the other side of it, and I would be glad if 
 he would be allowed the opportunity to do so. 
 
 Senator Lane. Capt. Grayson was making a statement when the 
 committee adjourned on Friday. 
 
 STATEMENT OF CAPT. G. W. GRAYSON (resumed). 
 
 Capt. Grayson. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, 
 we labor under the disadvantage of not being lawyers and not ac- 
 customed to presenting cases before a deliberative body. But this 
 is money belonging to the Creek Nation that it is proposed to appro- 
 priate, and we wish to say a few words with regard to it. 
 
 As I started to say the other day we had not known that there 
 was any claim pending against the Creek Nation from the Kendall 
 College source, but since our arrival here we have found that it is 
 proposed to appropriate $10,000 — moneys that the college authori- 
 ties had been caused to pay over to the Creek Nation some years 
 ago. We have also supposed that it was a closed incident and there 
 was nothing standing against the nation at all. But since we came 
 here, as I say, we have found that this proposed amendment is 
 pending. 
 
 I have a letter on the subject from the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affairs that I would like to read to the committee. It appears to 
 be dated January 14, 1915, but we did not receive it until the 9th 
 of this month : 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, January l\, 1915. 
 Mr. MoTY Tiger, 
 
 Principal Chief Creek Nation of Indians, 
 
 National Ilotal, Washington, D. G. 
 
 My Dear Mr. Tioer : This is to Invite your attention to an amendment in- 
 tended to be proposed to the Indian appropriation bill by Hon. Robert L. Owen, 
 of Oklahoma, authorizing the Secretary of the Interior to pay to the trustees 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 715 
 
 of the Henry Kendall College the sum of $10,000 out of the funds of the Creek 
 Tribe of Indians. 
 
 The intent of said amendment Is to provide for the return to the above- 
 mentioned college at Muskogee, Okla., the sum of $10,000, which amount was 
 recovered by the United States for the use of the Creek Nation In a suit 
 brought by the United States on behalf of said nation against the Board of 
 Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church of the United States of America, 
 the Synod of Oklahoma of the Presbyterian Church in the United States of 
 America, P. Porter, and C. W. Turner. Said suit was filed in the United States 
 Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma by the Creek tribal attorney, and 
 W. L. Sturdevant, specially employed to assist said attorney in the prosecution 
 of the Creek town-lot suits. 
 
 Subsection 10 of section 30 of the act of Congress approved June 28, 1898 (30 
 Stat. L., 495), contained a provision which was not adopted by the Creek Tribe, 
 as follows: 
 
 "Barrel Institute, Henry Kendall College, and Nazareth Institute, in Mus- 
 kogee, and Baptist University, near Muskogee, shall have, free of charge, to be 
 allotted and patented to said institution or to the churches to which they belong, 
 the grounds they now occupy, to be used for school purposes only and not to 
 exceed 10 acres each." 
 
 Section 20 of the act of Congress approved March 1, 1901 (31 Stat. L., 861- 
 867 ) , contains this provision : 
 
 " Henry Kendall College, Nazareth Institute, and Spaulding Institute, In 
 Muskogee, may purchase the parcels of land occupied by them, or which may 
 have been laid out for their use and so designated upon the plat of said town, 
 at one-half of their appraised value, upon conditions herein provided; and aU 
 other schools and institutions of learning located in incorporated towns in the 
 Creek Nation may. in like manner, purchase the lots or parcels of land occupied 
 by them." 
 
 The bill of complaint shows that block 150 contains 20 acres and block 151, 
 6.99 acres, in Muskogee, Okla., and that said block 151 had never been occupied 
 by the Henry Kendall College for school purposes, and — 
 
 " That said defendant, the Board of Home Missions of the Presbyterian 
 Church of America, purchased said block 151 under the provisions of said acts 
 of Congress above referred to, and subsequently on the 15th day of October, 
 1904. a patent was duly issued by the Creek Nation conveying said block 151 
 together with bloc|k 150 to the said defendant, the Board of Home Missions of 
 the Presbyterian Church of the United States of America, said defendant having 
 paid one-half the value of said block as required. 
 
 " Your orator further shows and charges that said defendant, the Board of 
 Home Missions of the Presbyterian Church of the United States of America, 
 acquired no right of occupancy or any other right in said block 151 under the 
 provisions of said Creek agreement and said acts of Congress above referred to, 
 and the conveyance of said block 151 by the Creek Nation to said defendant 
 was secured by fraud and In violation of the law and the provisions of the 
 Creek agreement, and was and is void, and the title to said lots remained and 
 still remains in the Creek Nation." 
 
 The decree of the court found in favor of the Creek Nation. 
 
 On September 16, 1908, the department received the following telegram : 
 
 " ^Ye have cash offer of $10.0(J0 in settlement of Creek town-site suit against 
 Kendall College. All things considered we think offer should be accepted. 
 Unless otherwise instructed will act on our judgment. Please answer. 
 
 " W. Ij. Stukdevant. 
 
 " M. L. MoTT." 
 
 On the same day the following telegraphic reply was sent: 
 
 " Use your own best judgment concerning offers of settlement m townsite 
 cases remembering, however, that reasonable settlements are desirable." 
 
 By' letter dated November 12, 1908, Messrs. Sturdevant and Mott transmitted 
 a certified check for $10,000 from the Board of Home Missions of the Presby- 
 terian Church— the successor to the Henry Kendall College— together with a 
 copy of the decree of the court, made to effectuate the settlement of this case 
 and quiet the title to the Henry Kendall College blocks in the mission board, and 
 settlement was made by compromise on a dismissal of the suit on payment for 
 the benefit of the Creek Nation of $10,000 for the blocks in question. 
 
 Your views are requested as to the proposed legislation contained in the 
 above-mentioned Intended amendment of Hon. Robert L. Owen to the Indian 
 
716 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 appropriation bill. I shall be pleased to receive your opinion and recommenda- 
 tion in the matter at the earliest practicable date. 
 A copy of the proposed amendment of Mr. Owen is inclosed. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Cato Sells, Commissioner. 
 
 That communication having been handed to us on the 9th of this 
 month, it seemed to be a matter that required immediate attention, 
 and on the same day Mr. Moty Tiger, the chief of the Creek Nation, 
 wrote this letter to the commissioner in reply : 
 
 Washington, D. C, February 9, 1915. 
 Hon. Cato Sells, 
 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. 
 
 My Dear Mb. Commissioner: Your communication to me of the 14th ultimo, 
 in relation to an amendment providing for the payment to the trustees of 
 Henry Kendall College of $10,000 of the funds of the Creek Nation, intended 
 to be offered by Senator Owen to the Indian appropriation bill now before 
 Congress, and inviting my opinion and recommendation in respect thereto, has 
 only this day been received. My answer is this : I, together with others repre- 
 senting Creek national interests, have always believed, and do yet entertain 
 the opinion, that the compromise effected by and between the authorities of the 
 Henry Kendall College and W. L. Sturdevant, an attorney specially employed 
 by the Interior Department to represent and protect Creek national interests 
 in the town-lot suits, whereby the college trustees paid $10,000 to the depart- 
 ment to be placed to the credit of the Creek Nation, was a just and fair settle- 
 ment, and that no valid cause now exists for preferring this claim against the 
 Creek Nation. 
 
 However, the Creeks desire only what is just and fair, and if in view of the 
 records of the case before you it is your opinion that there is in this case a 
 semblance of a claim against my nation, I suggest an investigation before any 
 proper tribunal of the grounds on which it is alleged to be based, where Attor- 
 ney Sturdevant, who still represents the Creek Nation in town-lot suits, may 
 appear and be heard in our behalf. 
 
 I may add that I very much desire that you withhold your recommendation 
 of the proposed amendment. 
 
 I am, always, yours, sincerely, 
 
 MoTY Tiger, 
 Principal Chief of the Creek Nation. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Mr. Chairman, I am compelled to attend a 
 meeting of another committee this morning, and I ask unanimous 
 consent that the chairman be permitted to cast my vote on this 
 amendment, and that he record it in opposition to the amendment. 
 
 (There being no objection, it was so ordered.) 
 
 Mr. Grayson. Now, this matter, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of 
 the committee, was brought up here some time ago 
 
 Senator Page. Senator Owen, as you see the claim put forth in 
 this case is that they have an opportunity to investigate and answer. 
 In view of the very plain statement that has been made, do you not 
 think that would be right? 
 
 Senator Owen. I think that is one way to adjust it, but the facts 
 involved in this case are very simple, indeed. 
 
 Senator Page. They seem to be very simple but on the other side, 
 from a reading of this statement here, it would seem as though there 
 had not been an adjustment of the case. 
 
 Senator Owen. Of course, if the committee has not read the record 
 which I have submitted, or if the committee does not listen to a 
 statement of the case when I make it, I can not say that the facts 
 are simple and easily understood, because the committee is obviously 
 in doubt as to what the facts are. I stated the facts a fe-^v days 
 
INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 717 
 
 ago and requested Capt. Grayson to answer those facts and to state 
 whether I had stated them correctly or not. He has not said that 
 I have made an error in my statement; he has not questioned the 
 statement of fact but only reads a letter of the commissioner, and one 
 from the chief saying that they are opposed to it. 
 
 I desire to call the attention of the committee to the fact that the 
 record was made up with regard to this mater in 1911. It has been 
 four years since it was presented. I presented it to the committee 
 before but no action was taken about it. The facts are just as simple 
 and as plain as they can be. 
 
 It was alleged that this Presbyterian college, under the Curtis 
 Act, did not have the right to have scheduled to it the lands occupied 
 and fenced by them in that town. The act of Congress then, which 
 appeared to correct that, was as follows: 
 
 Henry Kenaall College, Nazareth Institute, and Spauldlng Institute, in Mus- 
 kogee, may purchase the parcels of land ocupied by them or — 
 
 There is the alternative 
 
 or which may have been laid out for their use and so designated upon the plat 
 of said town, etc. 
 
 Now, the land " ocupied " by the colege — using this language — 
 was then patented to Henry Kendall College, scheduled by the town- 
 site commissioil upon that act of Congress approved by the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior, and the patent issued to the College. Years 
 afterwards their patent was assailed upon the ground of fraud. This 
 institution, conducted by the church for charitable purposes, spend- 
 ing thousands of dollars in educating the children of the Creek 
 Nation, is accused of fraud, because the act of Congress had au- 
 thorized a patent to issue to them for the land occupied by them 
 which was then patented to them; they were accused of fraud. 
 After they had made a trade or a transfer of this property involv- 
 ing $100,000 of value they were compelled to submit to an exaction 
 of $10,000, which otherwise, if the suit had gone on, would have 
 broken up their contract and trade. A forced compromise was then 
 agreed on, and so the court confirmed their title on payment of the 
 $10,000 demanded. 
 
 Senator Page. It was not an adjustment, then, of a pending suit? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; it was an adjustment, but the reason they 
 explained why they could not ailord to carry the suit for three years 
 that was started against them was that it was impossible, and what- 
 ever exaction was made of them they had to yield. to. The facts, I 
 think, are undisputed, and if I am in error with regard to the facts, 
 I should be glad to have Capt. Grayson correct me, because I do 
 not wish to say anvthing that is not literally correct. 
 
 Mr Gkayson. Did I understand you t<3 say those people were 
 down there, and are still there, charitably teaching the Creek In- 
 dians ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I did not say that. 
 
 Mr Gratson. I thought it amounted to that. , , -, , 
 
 Senator Owen. No, sir; what I said was that they had estab- 
 lished this institution as a charitable institution for the purpose of 
 instructing the children of that country; they supported it out of 
 their funds. Is that not true ? 
 
718 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Gratson. I do not understand that they have ever done any 
 charity work among our people. 
 
 Senator Owen. Do they not educate the children there gratis ? 
 
 Mr. Geatson. No; not a single one of them that I know of. 
 
 Senator Owen. I was under the impression that that was the fact. 
 
 Mr. Gratson. That is a mistake on your part, Senator. 
 
 Senator Owen. If I am mistaken, I am very glad to have you 
 correct me. I do not want to state anything that is not literally 
 true. 
 
 Mr. Gratson. I noticed that you stated they were there spending 
 thousands of dollars teaching our children charitably, but there is 
 nothing of that kind done. 
 
 Senator Owen. I had thought so. 
 
 Mr. Gratson. The chief sent a boy to Henry Kendall College, 
 and had to pay just as white men do, and as all of us have to do. 
 
 Senator Owen. Does not the Presbyterian mission assign a cer- 
 tain amount of money there to keep that school going every year? 
 
 Mr. Gratson. Not that I know anything about. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think there can be any doubt about that. 
 I suppose what you say is true, that they do charge something for 
 those children who are able to pay, but I certainly had a very strong 
 impression that it was a tax upon their funds every year. 
 
 Mr. Gratson. I noticed that that was your impression, and the 
 impression goes out to this committee too, that we Creek people are 
 trying to oppose the operations of good, charitable, and philan- 
 thropic people. 
 
 Senator Owen. No; not at all. 
 
 Mr. Gratson. It puts us in that attitude, which is really not the 
 case. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think the question whether they con- 
 ducted a charitable institution or not really determines the question 
 involved in this matter here. The law simply states that they might 
 have the land occupied by them, and if they do occupy the land and 
 have got a patent to it under this statute, I do not think they ought 
 to be charged with fraud. That is what I think about it. If I am 
 wrong, I shall be glad to have you show the committee wherein the 
 error lies. 
 
 Mr. Gratson. Samuel Adams, for instance, the Assistant Secre- 
 tary, before whom this matter came February 6, 1913, winding up 
 his report on the subject, says: 
 
 The department recommends strongly against a return of the $10,000 of the 
 Creek tribal funds to the Henry Kendall College, which was unlawfully occupy- 
 ing block 151 in Muskogee, Okla., rightfully belonging to the Creek Tribe of 
 Indians. 
 
 Senator Oaven. What report is that? I do not think I have seen it. 
 
 Mr. Gratson. It is part 6, page 445, of these hearings. We take it 
 for granted that our attorneys were there — at least, the Government 
 attorneys were there, Mr. SturteAant and Mr. Mott — our attorney 
 was there, and we properly presented our case;, and through a 
 proper presentation of our case the Interior Department decided it 
 did not want this $10,000 appropriated, and we feel that that ought 
 to be a finality and in our favor ; it was then, and it must be in our 
 favor yet— it ought to be— and I would appeal to the Senator from 
 Oklahoma 
 
INDIAK APPROPRIATION BILL. 719 
 
 Senator Owen. I think, in view of this report, which I have not 
 seen and which is an adverse report, that the committee ought not to 
 act upon it. My attention had not been called to the .matter before. 
 Mr. Graysox. I was just going to appeal to you, Senator, that 
 you would not press this matter until some future time, when we 
 could have those people who Avere engaged in the presentation of 
 our case heard. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think it is a matter that ought to be sent 
 to the Court of Claims. I think that is a question that both sides 
 ought to be heard on. I think it could be adjusted easily by the 
 Interior Department. You could present the matter there through 
 your attorneys and give those people an opportunity to be present 
 when the matter is considered. I do not know whether the matter 
 ever went to the department or not. 
 Mr. Geatson. I am sure it did. 
 Senator Owen. Do you know, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not know that they were ever before the depart- 
 ment, but the department, I think, a few years ago submitted an 
 adverse report upon the matter. 
 
 Senator Owen. But they have heard these people? 
 Mr. Meritt. We have asked Judge Allen, the Creek attorney, to 
 look into this claim and submit his report, but his report has not yet 
 been received. 
 
 Senator Owen. I have submitted in part 1 of these hearings a 
 statement made by these people. Can you not take that under ad- 
 visement and pass upon it and adjust the matter and make your 
 report accordingly? 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we will by very glad to do that. 
 Senator Owen. And if you make the report in the light of that, 
 whatever you ascertain about it, I believe these people will be con- 
 tent, and I am also sure that I will be satisfied. 
 ' Senator Clapp. Let it go over for the present. 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; with that understanding, I ask that it go 
 over, in order that the Commissioner of Indian Affairs may look 
 into it. Will that be satisfactory to you, Capt. Grayson? 
 
 Mr. Gratson. Certainly. These Creeks do not want anything 
 that is unfair. 
 The Chairman. I presume you will withdraw it from this bill ( 
 Senator Owen. Yes; I withdraw it from this bill; that is, the 
 Kendall College item, at the top of page 62. 
 
 Mr. Gratson. I thank you, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen. 
 
 A ACATING certain lands in OKLAHOMA LANDS OF KIOWA, COMANCHE, 
 
 AND APACHE INDIANS. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, there was a piece of land set aside 
 for a town site in the Comanche country. A few lots were sold out 
 of it and it failed utterly to be a town site, and it was suggested 
 that the land might be allotted to the two Indians who did not get 
 allotments— San-a-was and Moc-tak-dah, two enrolled Comanche 
 Indian women, who have not heretofore received allotments. It 
 seems that this was reported favorably on March 10 1910 Mr 
 Clapp presenting the report. It is Senate Report JNo. 38*3. it 
 passed the Senate and went to the House, and the House did not act 
 
720 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 upon it. It passed the Senate on March 15, 1910. Perhaps Senator 
 Clapp may remember something about that. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes ; I do. 
 
 Senator Owen. Do you know anything about it, Mr. Commis- 
 sioner ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I am not thoroughly familiar with it, but I remem- 
 ber the item. 
 
 Senator Owen. It reads : 
 
 Be it enacted liy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
 •of America in Congress assembled. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby 
 authorized and directed to vacate the north half of section three, township four 
 south, range fourteen west, in Oklahoma, reserved for a town site in accordance 
 with the provisions of an act of Congress approved March twentieth, nineteen 
 hundred and six, entitled "An act for the establishment of town sites and for 
 the sale of town lots within the common lands of the Kiowa, Comanche, and 
 Apache Indians in Oklahoma." That the Secretary of the Interior shall reim- 
 burse the twenty-nine purchasers of lots within said described lands, out of any 
 money in the Treasury belonging to the Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache Tribes 
 of Indians, upon the conveyance of such lots by said purchasers to the United 
 States Government. And the Secretary of the Interior is hereby further 
 authorized to allot lands of said town site in equal amounts to San-a-was and 
 Pessa, two enrolled Comanche Indian women who have not heretofore received 
 allotments. 
 
 Senator Clapp reported that on the 10th of March, 1910. It passed 
 the Senate on March 15, 1910, but did not pass the House, and it 
 leaves an unsettled matter there that I think ought to be closed up. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The department, I believe, has submited a favorable 
 report upon that legislation. 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes ; the department submitted a favorable report 
 on February 18, 1910. Does the committee care to hear the report 
 read ? It is a few lines. 
 
 The Chairman. You may read it. Senator. 
 
 Senator Owen. It says: 
 
 The Committee on Indian Affairs, to whom Senate bill 5783 was referred, hav- 
 ing examined the same, make the amendments suggested by the Secretary of the 
 Interior in letter of date February 18, 1910, and as amended recommend that it 
 do pass. 
 
 Letter of the Secretary is hereto attached. 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 Washington, Peliruary 18, 1910. 
 Sir : I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your note of January 29, 
 1910, referring to this department, for consideration and report, S. 5783, a bill 
 authorizing and directing the Secretary of the Interior to vacate certain lands 
 in Oklahoma reserved for a town site, and for other purposes. 
 
 In a letter dated January 11, 1910, the superintendent of the Kiowa Agency 
 recommended, in case the town site is vacated, that the lands be allotted in 
 equal amounts to San-a-was and Moe-tah-dah, two enrolled Comanche Indian 
 women who have never received allotments. This would be a very proper dis- 
 position to make of the liinds in the event the town site is vacated. 
 ^ I therefore recommend that the bill be amended by adding to section 2 the 
 words, " and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby further authorized to allot 
 the lands of said town site in equal amounts to San-a-was and Moe-tah-dah, two 
 enrolled Comanche Indian women who have not heretofore received allotments." 
 The town site involved is in township 4 south instead of 4 north. It Is recom- 
 mended that the word " north," in line 5 of section 1, be stricken out and the 
 word " south " be substituted in its stead. If the bill be amended as suggested 
 I see no objection to its passage. 
 Respectfully, 
 
 R. A. Ballingkr, Secretary. 
 Hon. Moses E. Ciapp, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 721 
 
 If there is no objection, I move that that item be put upon the bill. 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection? 
 There being no objection, it was so ordered. 
 Senator Lane. I do not know about that matter. If I hear any 
 valid objections, I will urge them later. 
 
 Senator Owen. That would be right, of course. 
 
 CROW INDIAN RESERVATION. 
 
 Senator Lane. Mr. Chairman, there is an item here which Senator 
 La FoUette mentioned the other day, as to which we were expecting 
 a report from the department. It is in regard to the appropriation 
 for maintenance of the Crow Agency, for fulfilling treaties with the 
 Crows of Montana, for pay of physician, carpenter, miller, engineer, 
 blacksmith, etc., $6,000. You will remember the query that was 
 made with regard to it, whether that fully accounted for the ex- 
 penses of all the employees in the maintenance of the Crow Reserva- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. This does not provide for the employees of the Crow 
 Agency. This item is simply for the purpose of carrying out a treaty 
 provision. 
 
 Senator Lane. It is merely a treaty provision? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is purely and simply a treaty provision. 
 
 Senator Lane. Does it cover it completely? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It covers the treaty provisions completely, so far as 
 we are required by legislation to provide for employees authorized 
 by the treaties. 
 
 Senator Lane. There are other employees — ^how are they paid? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They are paid from different funds appropriated by 
 Congress and also from " Indian moneys, proceeds of labor." 
 
 Senator Lane. That is specifically provided by law to be expended 
 in that maimer? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have authority of law to expend the money in 
 accordance with the way that it is being expended. 
 
 Senator Lane. You Imow that there has been some question raised 
 about it? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not know what the facts are. You, as a repre- 
 sentative of the department, know much more about it than I do ; but 
 I do know that there is a question made about it. I have heard it 
 questioned a number of times. For instance, it is headed " proceeds 
 of labor." That is money not acquired by labor, as I understand it, 
 but by leasing grasslands to lessees ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. Aiid that is the labor? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That is technically known as Indian moneys, proceeds 
 of labor. That is the heading given by the Treasury Department. 
 
 Senator Lane. But it is an expenditure that is paid from that 
 fund, is it? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. How much? Do you know what proportion or 
 what amount? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I could not tell you exactly the amount. 
 
 Senator Lane. Approximately? 
 
 82833 — TOL 1 — 15 46 
 
722 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We pay all the expenses of the reservation practically 
 out of the grazing funds. 
 
 VACATING CERTAIN LANDS IN OKLAHOMA KIOWA, COMANCHE, AND 
 
 APACHE INDIANS — Continued. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I ask permission to report this 
 same item, to which I have referred, in a separate bill. I forgot to 
 say to the committee that I find in running over it that there was a 
 recent report of the Interior Department, and I would like to have 
 that go into our record here. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, it will be so ordered 
 
 (The report referred to is as follows:) 
 
 Department op the Interior, 
 
 Washington, March 21, 1914. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashtjrst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 My Dear Senator : Receipt is acknowledged of the letter dated February 
 26, 1914, transmitting a copy of Senate bill 4619, Sixty-third Congress, second 
 session, authorizing and directing the Secretary of the Interior to vacate cer- 
 tain lands In Oklahoma reserved for a town site, and for other purposes. 
 
 The department wishes to invite your attention to lines 3 to 7, page 2, of the 
 above bill, providing for the allotment of the said town site in equal allotments 
 to San-a-was and Moe-tak-dah, two enrolled Comanche Indian women, who 
 have not heretofore received allotments. The Office of Indian Affairs informs 
 me that Moe-tak-dah died March 26, 1912, leaving as her relatives and heirs 
 one Pessa, grancldaughter, and Mattie Quah-ne-nah, great-granddaughter. 
 
 The latter has been provided for on the Comanche allotment roll based on 
 the act of June 5, 1906 (34 Stat. L., 213), which provided for the allotment of 
 children of the tribe born subsequent to, and entitled to allotment under the 
 act of June 6, 1900 (31 Stat. L., 676). However, Pessa has not been allotted 
 by reason of the fact that she was born prior to that date. 
 
 It is therefore suggested that section 2 of the bill (S. 4619) be amended 
 by striking out in line 5, page 2, the name " Moe-tak-dah " and inserting the 
 name " Pessa." 
 
 If the bill is amended as suggested, I see no objection to its passage. 
 Cordially, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 DENISON COAL CO. LEASES. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, there is another item to which I 
 desire to call the attention of the committee, and I may say that I 
 wish that we had a fuller attendance of members present. This re- 
 lates to the Denison Coal Co., a matter in which I called for a report 
 and only got it on February 11, so that I have had no opportunity 
 to present it before. It has taken some little time to make the in- 
 vestigation. The Denison Coal Co., it seems, had selected lands in 
 which, through the fault of the ground, the coal was not existing as 
 £i fact, and when they discovered that they asked to have an ex- 
 change, but there had been an error also made in the survey. The 
 Secretary makes a statement with regard to it here and suggests that 
 with an amendment which he proposes they should be allowed to 
 change this land so as to have land which would be coal bearing — 
 that is, in the Choctaw and Chickasaw coal fields — and the propo- 
 sition was : 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to permit 
 the Denison Coal Co. to relinquish the lands embraced in its existing Choctaw 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 723 
 
 and Chickasaw coal lease, all of which lands have been demonstrated to be not 
 valuable for coal, and to include within the said lease in lieu thereof the fol- 
 lowed described lauds which are within the segregated coal area and unleased. 
 
 And he then described the land — 
 
 Provided, That if the surface of said lands has not been sold in accordance 
 with the provisions of the act of February 19, 1912 (37 Stat. L., p. 67), the said 
 Denison Coal Co. shall have the right to use only so much of the surface of 
 said lands as may be reasonably necessary for the purpose of carrying on 
 mining operations, not to exceed 5 per cent of such surface, the number, location, 
 and extent of the tracts to be so used to be approved by the Secretary of the 
 Interior, and said company shall purchase the surface of the tracts so used 
 for mining operations in accordance with section 2 of said act. 
 
 The Secretary in his report states as follows : 
 
 I can see no objection to the approval of the proposed amendment, but sug- 
 gest it should be amended by striliing out all after the description of the land 
 and inserting in lieu thereof: 
 
 "Provided, That if the surface of said lands has not been sold in accordance 
 with the provisions of the act of February nineteenth, nineteen hundred and 
 twelve (thirty-seven Statutes at Large, page sixty-seven), the said Denison 
 Coal Company shall have the right to use only so much of the surface of said 
 lands as may be reasonably necessary for the purpose of carrying on mining 
 operations, not to exceed five per centum of such surface, the number, location, 
 and extent of the tracts to be so used to be approved by the Secretary of the 
 Interior, and said company shall purchase the surface of the tracts so used for 
 mining operations in accordance with section two of said act: 
 
 "Provided further, That should the surface of said lands have been sold in 
 accordance with the provisions of said act of Congress approved February 
 nineteenth, nineteen hundred and twelve, the said Denison Coal Company shall 
 acquire such portions of the surface as may be reasonably necessary for pros- 
 pecting or for the conduct of mining operations as provided in section three of 
 said act: 
 
 "Provided further, That the said Denison Coal Company shall pay all amounts 
 due and unpaid under its existing lease before the said company shall be per- 
 mitted to include the above-described lieu lands in the lease, and that all 
 monevs which shall have been paid by the said company under its lease as 
 advance royalties shall be credited on the royalty on production from the lieu 
 lauds in accordance with the terms of the lease." 
 
 The company has been trying to get this relief for several years, 
 and I think undoubtedly they ought to have it. Were you here, Sena- 
 tor La FoUette, when I'read the first part of this report? 
 
 Senator La Follette. No ; I was not. 
 
 Senator Owen. It is a report of the Secretary of the Interior with 
 regard to the Denison Coal Co., which had been leased land and 
 which proved to be without coal. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is, they had surface indications? , .„ , 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; surface indications, but when they drilled 
 down they found there was a fault and the coal had disappeared and 
 they could not use it. The Secretary of the Interior reports that 
 that is the fact and recommends that they should be allowed to make 
 
 ^Venator La Follette. When was the lease made to them? 
 Senator Owen. It was made some years ago. 
 Senator La Follette. We have not been making any new leases of 
 
 ^* Senator OwIsn. No. I will be glad to read this report if the com- 
 mittee desires. ,,.,,, 9 
 Senator Lane. How much did they pay 5 
 
724 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. Here is the statement: 
 
 Depaetment or the Inteeiob, 
 Washington, February 11, 1915. 
 
 My Deab Senatob: I am In receipt of your communication of January 29, 
 1915, addressed to tlie Commissioner of Indian Affairs requesting an immediate 
 report as to his views on a proposed amendment to tlie pending Indian appro- 
 priation 1)111, the purpose of which amendment is to authorize the Denison Coal 
 Co. to relinquish all the lands embraced In its existing Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 coal lease and to include within said lease 960 acres of other lands within the 
 segregated coal lands. 
 
 Ou September 23, 1902, the mining trustees of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations entered into a coal-mining lease with William C. Fordyce for a term 
 of 30 years under the provisions of section 29 of the act approved August 28, 
 1898 (30 Stat. L., 495), which lease covered 960 acres located in section 36, 
 township 1 north, range 9 east; section 1, township 1 south, range 9 east; and 
 section 6, township 1 south, range 10 east. This lease was approved by the 
 department on October 11, 1902. 
 
 Under the terms of the instrument the lessee agreed to pay as advance 
 royalty on each mine within the leased area $100 per annum in advance for the 
 first and second years, $200 per annum in advance for the third and fourth 
 years, and $500 per annum in advance for the fifth and each succeeding year 
 thereafter, and further covenanted to produce from the lease not less than 3,000 
 tons during the first year, 4,000 tons the second year, 7,000 tons the third year, 
 8,000 tons the fourth year, and 15,000 tons the fifth and each succeeding year 
 thereafter, all payments of advance royalty to be credited on the royalty on 
 production, which was fixed at 8 cents per ton of 2,000 pounds on mine run. 
 On August 12, 1905, the assignment thereof to the Denison Coal Co. was ap- 
 proved by the department. 
 
 It appears tli:it the prospecting by the Denison Coal Co. demonstrated beyond 
 all reasonable doubt that the land covered by the lease was not valuable for 
 coal mining purposes, but the company was precluded from relinquishing the 
 lanrl and leasing other lands in lieu thereof by section 61 of the act of July 1, 
 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641). That Conaress intended to afford the company relief is 
 evidenced by section 2 of the act of June 25, 1910 (36 Stat. L., 832), which 
 authorized the Denison Coal Co. to relinquish certain lands embraced in its 
 lease, and to inclnde other lands in lien thereof. However, by reason of there 
 bein^ some error iu the descriptions of the tracts to be relinquished and those 
 to be included in the lease, the law did not have the desired effect. 
 
 After the passage of the act of Jime 25. 1910, supra, the company corre- 
 sponded at great length with the office of the Commissioner to the Five Civil- 
 ized Tribes, called attention ro the fact that the act was not operative by reason 
 of the lands described as those to be relinquished, being iu some instances the 
 same as those to be included in the lease, and some of the tracts described as 
 those to be included in the lease being already covered by the lease, and applied 
 for permission to relinquish all the lands covered by its lease and take in lieu 
 thereof 960 acres in sections 28, 29, 30, 31, and 32, township 1 north, range 10 
 east. The papers were submitted to the department, and it was held that the 
 department was precluded from granting the application by section 61 of the 
 act of July 1, 1002. supra. In returning the papers to the Commissioner to the 
 Fi-s-e Civilized Tribes the department called attention to the fact that there 
 was then pending a bill (H. R. 31672, 61st Cong.), introduced in the House of 
 Representatves on January 18, 1911, the purpose of which was to authorize the 
 department to permit the Denison Coal Co. to relinquish all the lands covered 
 by its lease and to take in lieu thereof the lands described in the application 
 which was under consideration at that time. H. R. 31672 failed of passage. 
 
 On December 18, 1911, there was introduced in the Senate a bill (S. 3843, 
 62d Cong., 2il sess. ), the jmrpose of which was to authorize coal companies in 
 Oklahoma to acquire additional acreage from the unleased segregated coal 
 lands. The Denison Coal Co., on April 9, 1912, after the introduction of the 
 bill, again made application to relinquish the lands covered by its existing Irase 
 and to take in lieu thereof 960 acres in section 1, township 3 north, range 13 
 east: section' 0. township 3 north, ran,i;e 14 east; and section 31, township 4 
 north, range 14 east. The mining trustees recommended that the application 
 be granted, and it was forwarded to the department in due course of business. 
 The application was denied by the department on May 7, 1912, for the reason 
 that it had no authority to grant the request, and attention was at that time 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 725 
 
 called to the bill theii pending before the Congress— Senate bill 3843 last re- 
 ferred to. 
 
 The Denlson Coal Co. continued to pay advance royalties under the terms of 
 its lease until October 11, 1911, which was subsequent to the passage of the 
 act which would have given it the relief sought had the lands been properly 
 described. The company is delinquent In its payments since that time, and 
 the claim is made on Its behalf that by reason of the lands included in this 
 lease being absolutely worthless as coal-mining property it did not care to make 
 additional payments until it had exhausted all efforts to obtain relief. 
 
 The act of March 4, 1913 (37 Stat. L., 1007), authorized the department to 
 grant to the operator of any coal mine or mines in the State of Oklahoma the 
 right to lease additional acreage from the unleased segregated coal lands, pro- 
 vided that the land sought to be leased adjoins and is contiguous to the coal 
 mining property of the applicant. However, the right to lease such additional 
 land is, by the act, restricted to individuals or corporations actually operating 
 mines in the State at the time of the passage of the act. As the Denison Coal 
 Co. had been unable to conduct mining operations by reason of the lands 
 covered by its lease being unproductive, it, of course, was not in position to 
 take advantage of the act of March 4, 1913, supra. 
 
 The company did, however, procure the Introduction into the House of Repre- 
 sentatives of a bill, H. R. 19036, on September 29, 1914, which, if enacted into 
 law, would give it the relief sought by its application submitted in January, 
 
 1911, after it was ascertained that the act of June 25, 1910, supra, was inef- 
 fective. The matter, however, has been somewhat complicated by reason of 
 the fact that the Hazelton Coal Co., a coal-mining corporation actually oper- 
 ating in Oklahoma, has made application for additional lands under the act of 
 March 4, 1913, supra, which application was approved by the department prior 
 to the introduction of H. R. 19036, and a lease was executed by the mining 
 trustees in favor of the Hazelton Coal Co., covering lands included in H. R. 
 19036, and is now pending before the Indian Office for action. 
 
 The Denison Coal Co. has protested against the granting of the lease desired 
 by the Hazelton Coal Co., and. represented that the Denison Coal Co. is in 
 equity entitled to the lands by reason of the passage of the act of June 25, 1910, 
 supra. It was pointed out to the company's representatives that the Hazelton 
 Coal Co. had complied with the provisions of the act of March 4, 1913, and the 
 regulations of the department thereunder, and they then expressed a desire 
 to obtan, if possible, a lease of the lands included in the application of April 9, 
 
 1912, the location of which lands is some 35 or 40 miles distant from the lands 
 formerly sought by the company and now sought by the Hazelton Coal Co. 
 
 Investigation developed that some of the lands sought by the Denison Coal 
 Co. in April, 1912, have since been granted to the Brewer Coal & Mining 
 Co. under the act of March 4, 1913, supra, and the Denison Coal Co. has now 
 selected 960 acres described in the proposed amendment received with your 
 letter of January 29, 1915, and which lands it appears are not covered by any 
 lease. 
 
 The Denison Coal Co. has been somewhat unfortunate in this matter, as It 
 appears in the first place its lease covered lands not valuable for coal purposes ; 
 afterwards, when it sought to obtain relief through congressional action, 
 through some misunderstanding, the lands were incorrectly described; and 
 then, when general legislation was enacted, the company was precluded from 
 taking advantage thereof because it was not operating a coal mine at the time 
 the act of March 4, 1913, was approved. 
 
 I can see no objection to the approval of the proposed amendment, but sug- 
 gest that it should be amended by striking out all after the description of the 
 land and inserting in lieu thereof: 
 
 " Provided, That if the surface of said lands has not been sold m accordance 
 with the provisions of the act of February nineteenth, nineteen hundred and 
 twelve (Thirty-seventh Statutes at Large, page sixty-seven), the said Denison 
 Coal Company shall have the right to use only so much of the surface of said 
 lands as may be reasonably necessary for the purpose of carrying on mmmg 
 operations not to exceed five per centum of such surface, the number, location, 
 and extent of the tracts to be so used to be approved by the Secretary of the 
 Interior and said company shall purchase the surface of the tracts so used for 
 mining operations in accordance with section two of said act : Provided further, 
 That should the surface of said lands have been sold in accordance with the 
 provisions of said act of Congress approved February nineteenth, nineteen hun- 
 
fSG INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 dred and twelve, the said Denison Coal Company shall acquire such portions of 
 the surface as may be reasonably necessary for prospecting or for the conduct 
 of mining operations as provided in section three of said act: Provided further, 
 That the said Denison Coal Company shall pay all amounts due and unpaid 
 under its existing lease before the said company shall be permitted to include 
 the above-described lieu lands in the lease, and that all moneys which shall 
 have been paid by the said company under its lease as advance royalties shall be 
 credited on the royalty on production from the lieu lands in accordance with 
 
 Hjrt tGriTlS of tllG IS&SG " 
 
 There is inclosed a draft of the amendment drawn so as to contain the amend- 
 ment suggested herein, and with the description of the land involved somewhat 
 Bimplified. 
 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Franklin K. Lane. 
 
 Hon. RoBEBT L. Owen, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 Amendment intended to be proposed by Senator to the bill (H. R. 
 
 20150) making appropriations for the current and contingent expenses of 
 the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for fulfilling treaty stipulations with various 
 Indian tribes, and for other purposes, for the fiscal year ending June 30, 
 1916, viz : 
 
 That sertion two of the act of Congress approved June twenty-fifth, nine- 
 teen hundred and ten (Thirty-sixth Statutes at Large, page eight hundred and 
 thirty-two), entitled "An net granting to Savanna Coal Company right to ac- 
 quire additional acreage to its existing coal lease In the Choctaw Nation, Pitts- 
 burg County, Oklahoma, and for other purposes," be, and the same is hereby, 
 amended to read as follows : 
 
 " Sec. 2. That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized 
 to permit the Denison Coal Company to relinquish- the lands embraced in its 
 existing Choctaw and Chickasaw coal lease, all of which lands have been dem- 
 onstrated to be not valuable for coal, and to include within the said lease in 
 lieu thereof the following described lands, which are within the segregated 
 coal area and unleased : The southwest quarter of the northeast quarter, and 
 northeast quarter of the northwest quarter, and south half of the northwest 
 quarter, and north half of the southwest quarter, and southwest quarter of the 
 southwest quarter, all in section six, township three north, range fourteen 
 east; and south half of the southeast quarter of the northeast quarter, and 
 east half of the southeast quarter, and south half of the northwest quarter of 
 the southeast quarter, and southwest quarter of the southeast quarter, and 
 southeast quarter of the southwest quarter, and south half of the southwest quar- 
 ter of the southwest quarter, all in section one, township three north, range 
 thirteen east; and northwest quarter of the northeast quarter, and north half 
 of the northwest quarter, and southwest quarter of the northwest quarter, all 
 in section twelve, township three north, range thirteen east ; and east half of 
 the northeast quarter, and south half of the northwest quarter of the northeast 
 quarter, and southwest quarter of the northeast quarter, and northwest quar- 
 ter of the southeast quarter, and southeast quarter of the northwest quarter, 
 and north half of the southwest quarter, all in section eleven, township three 
 north, range thirteen east, nine hundred and sixty acres, more or less : Pro- 
 vided, That if the surface of said lands has not been sold in accordance with 
 the provisions of the act of February nineteenth, nineteen hundred and twelve 
 (Thirty-seventh Statutes at Large, page sixty-seven), the said Denison Coal Com- 
 pany shall have the right to use only so much of the surface of said lands as 
 may be reasonably necessary for the purpose of carrying on mining operations, 
 not to exceed five per centum of such surface, the number, location, and extent 
 of the tracts to be so used to be approved by the Secretary of the Interior, 
 and said company shall purchase the surface of the tracts so used for mining 
 operations in accordance with section two of said act : Provided further, That 
 should the surface of said lands have been sold in accordance with the pro- 
 visions of said act of Congress approved February nineteenth, nineteen hun- 
 dred and twelve, the said Denison Coal Company shall acquire such portions of 
 the surface as may be reasonably necessary for prospecting or for the conduct 
 of mining operations as provided in section three of said act : Provided further, 
 That the said Denison Coal Company shall pay all amounts due and unpaid 
 under its existing lease before the said company shall be permitted to include 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 727 
 
 the above described lieu lands in the lease, and that all moneys which shall 
 nave been paid by the said company under its lease as advance royalties shall 
 De credited on the royalty on production from the lieu lands in accordance 
 with the terms of the lease." 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was that in the appropriation bill for that 
 year? 
 
 Senator Owen. It is 37 Statutes, page 1007. I do not remember 
 whether it was or not. 
 
 T}^^ Chairman. No ; that was not in the appropriation bill. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It was a separate bill, Senator. 
 
 Senator Owen. So there is the situation. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Will you give me the number of the act of 
 March i, 1913; also the number of the act of 1910? 
 
 Senator Owen. March 4, 1913, 37 Statutes at Large, page 1007. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And the act of 1910 — will you give me the 
 number of that ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Thirty-sixth Statutes at Large, page 832. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Mr. Chairman, I should have opposed the 
 passage of these two acts permitting the leasing of additional coal 
 land if I had had the opportunity. They passed without my knowl- 
 edge, and I am opposed to extending coal-leasing privileges on this 
 land. 
 
 Senator Owen. I thinlv any objection would make this go over. 
 
 The Chairman. Let it go over, then. 
 
 Senator Owen. 1 simply ask that this record be printed in our 
 record, Mr. Chairman. 
 
 The Chairman. That will be done. 
 
 Senator Owen. Will the committee object to its being reported as 
 an independent bill ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I should oppose it. I would like an oppor- 
 tunity to have it considered by the full committee ; that is, by a quo- 
 rum at least, before it is reported. 
 
 Senator Lane. I have seen a good many leasing and sales made 
 where there were faults and slips, where the purchaser failed to find 
 mineral which was indicated on the surface, but I never knew any 
 person yet to put him back on the other land. I think he takes his 
 chances on that ; that is a miner's chance, as I understand it. 
 
 continuance oe joint commission to investigate indian affairs 
 
 (resumed) . 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, this morning we put into the bill 
 a clause to continue the Joint Commission to Investigate Indian 
 Affairs. I am very much in favor of that. I think that commission 
 has done great work, but it occurs to me that from time to time 
 Members of the Senate or House on that committee will go out of 
 office, and I recall now the fact that Eepresentative Burke will re- 
 tire, and I think there should be a provision in this clause that when 
 there is a vacancy by reason of the expiration of a term of a Member 
 of Congress who is a member of the commission, or a Senator who 
 is a member of the commission, that the Speaker of the House in case 
 it is a Member of Congress, and the President of the Senate in the 
 case of a Senator, should supply it. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think that is obviously right. 
 
728 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Clapp. "With the permission of the committee I will pre- 
 pare an amendment to that effect. 
 
 The Chaieman. The Senator from Minnesota will prepare the pro- 
 posed amendment. 
 
 (Senator Clapp subsequently presented the following amendment, 
 which was agreed to, and the same was ordered reported to the Senate 
 as a separate bill:) 
 
 Provided, That when any vacancy shall occur upon said joint commission by 
 reason of the expiration of the term of office of any Member of the House of 
 Representatives upon said joint commission or of any Senator upon said joint 
 commission, or from any other cause, the Speaker of the House, if the vacancy 
 occurs with reference to a Member of the House of Representatives, or the 
 President of the Senate, with reference to a Senator, shall fill such vacancy by 
 appointment. 
 
 LANDS FOE CEMETEET PT7EP0SES, PITTSBTTEG COUNTY, OKLA. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I have the following item which I 
 desire to have inserted in the bill : 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to sell 
 to Right Reverend Theophile Meerschaert, bishop of Oklahoma, for cemetery 
 purposes, the surface of the following tract of land, situate in Pittsburg County, 
 Oklahoma, to wit : Lot twenty-seven, town-site addition numbered seven, in the 
 southwest quarter of the northeast quarter of section three, township five north, 
 range fifteen east of the Indian base and meridian, containing ten acres, more 
 or less: Provided, however. That the said land shall be sold for cash at the 
 appraised price fixed thereupon by the appraisers appointed by the President 
 under authority of the act of Congress approved February nineteenth, nineteen 
 hundred and twelve, entitled "An act to provide for the sale of the surface of 
 the segregated coal and asphalt lands of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, 
 and for other purposes" : And provided further, That the coal and asphalt on 
 or under said land is hereby reserved, and the Secretary of the Interior is 
 instructed to expressly reserve the same In preparing conveyance thereof: And 
 provided further. That this authorization shall lapse and expire by operation of 
 law unless the said appraised price of said land shall be tendered to the 
 Secretary of the Interior by the said bishop of Oklahoma within six months 
 from the date of the approval of this act by the President 
 
 Mr. Meritt, do you know anything about that matter ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; we have no objection to that legislation. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you desire it to be described, showing how 
 much of the surface would be required ? 
 
 Senator Owen. No ; I do not care about that. 
 
 Senator Lane. It would be a public cemetery ; everybody would be 
 buried there? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes ; I should say it would be a catholic cemetery. 
 
 The item was agreed to. 
 
 new MEXICO SCHOOLS AT ALBTJQUEEQTJE AND SANTA PE. 
 
 Senator Fall. I desire to call up for consideration the following 
 items : 
 
 Sec. 14. For support and education of four hundred Indian pupils at the 
 Indian school at Albuquerque, Ng^ Mexico, and for pay of superintendent, 
 $68,600; for general repairs and Improvements, $5,000; in all, $73,600: Pro- 
 vided, That not to exceed $200 may be expended In the purchase of a fractional 
 acre south of the school farm and adjoining the public road. 
 
 For support and education of three hundred and fifty Indian pupils at the~ 
 Indian school at Santa Fe, New Mexico, and for pay of superintendent, $63 550 • 
 for general repairs and improvements, $5,000; for water supply, $1,600- in nil' 
 $70,150. 
 
INDIAK APPEOPKIATION BILL. 729 
 
 Mr. Chairman, I am informed that the items with regard to New 
 Mexico Indian schools were passed over subject to suggestion. I 
 have some communications from the superintendent of the schools in 
 Albuquerque and Santa Fe with respect to the item found on pages 
 48 and 49 of the bill, under the head of New Mexico. The last 
 appropriation bill carried for Albuquerque something like $96,000. 
 As it appears in the bill, the first item is " for support and education 
 of 400 Indian pupils at the Indian school at Albuquerque, N. Mex., 
 and for pay of superintendent, $68,600." This is less, I think, than 
 any other school, and is certainly less than the Santa Fe school hav- 
 ing the same per capita of pupils. The superintendent and others 
 in Albuquerque write me that there are now enrolled 435 pupils and 
 that there are 100 applications pending, and they have no room for 
 them; they have crowded in 435, and it is for teaching the 435 and 
 supporting and maintaining 435 instead of 400. They desire that 
 provision be made for that, and they ask $8,000 instead of $5,000. 
 
 The Chairman. What line of the bill is that? 
 
 Senator Fall. Line 1, page 49. The amount is $73,600, which 
 includes $5,000 for repairs and improvements. The item is $68,600 
 for support and maintenance of 400 pupils. They ask that sup- 
 port and maintenance be made for 435 pupils who are actually in 
 attendance, and that the item of $68,600 be increased to $72,775, 
 which is the regular rate per capita. That is the same rate that pre- 
 vails in the Santa Fe school, and it is the same rate that prevails in 
 other schools. 
 
 Mr. Chairman, I desire to call the attention of the committee to a 
 fact that most of the members are familiar with — that in New Mexico 
 we have 20,000 Pueblo Indians who are not living on the reservation, 
 but on their own grants, and are maintaining their own governments. 
 A large number of the Pueblo Indians attend public schools in New 
 Mexico. They have two schools, one at Sante Fe and one at Albu- 
 querque, and they are doing magnificent work, particularly for the 
 Pueblo Indians, aside from the schools for the reservation Indians, 
 supported by the Government, of which there are none in New 
 Mexico generally. Those two schools are devoted almost entirely 
 to the education of Pueblo Indians, and as you all know they are 
 sedentary Indians, and I want to say from my own personal knowl- 
 edge the schools are doing magnificent work, but they are not any- 
 thing like sufficiently large. There are now actually 435 at Albu- 
 querque, and I can see no reason for not supporting them. As a 
 matter of fact, I think it is very shortsighted policy not to allow for 
 the support of those who want to go there — 100 in addition. I would 
 ask that the item of $68,600, on line 25 of page 48, be changed to 
 $72 775. 
 
 The Chairman. That makes a total on that line of what? 
 
 Senator Fall. On line 1, page 49, it should be $77,550, instead of 
 $73,600. The school asks, instead of $5,000 for repairs and im- 
 provements, $8,000. They asked last year, and they have been ask- 
 ing for years, for an appropriation to purchase additional lands. 
 They have a farm in connection with this school. These Indians 
 are fond of farming, and they should have the manual training m 
 order that they may be taught to farm. They are all farmers; it 
 is their business, but they have not enough lands. They have been 
 
730 INDIAN APPROPIUATION BILL. 
 
 asking for years for an appropriation to enable them to purchase 
 additional lands. I will ask the assistant commissioner if he knows 
 anything about this, and what he thinks about the purchase of land 
 by the department; if he has looked into it? I do not want to ask 
 anything that is not proper. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We recognize the need for this additional land and 
 would be very glad to have the appropriation for that purpose. We 
 would also be glad to have an increase in the appropriation for that 
 school. 
 
 Senator Fall. I understand so. The estimate made by the de- 
 partment was $84,050, instead of a total amount of $73,600 as allowed. 
 T would ask, Mr. Chairman, that the total amount on line 1, page 49, 
 instead of being $73,600 should be the items of $73,550 and $8,000, 
 which would be $81,550, which is $4,000 less than the department 
 estimated for. 
 
 I wish to say to the committee that I will come here at another 
 meeting and show the absolute necessity and justice of giving these 
 Indian boys and girls an opportunity of studying farming as they 
 should. They have done some small farming; they are practically 
 supporting themselves with a dairy, but they have not room for it. 
 They have not the pasture for the cows. They are sedentary In- 
 dians, and their forefathers were, 350 years ago, farmers on this 
 continent — ^before there were any in the East — and they have been 
 farmers ever since, and they should have the advantages of educa- 
 tion along that line. They can not get it in the School for Mechan- 
 ical and Agricultural Arts in New Mexico. Under the laws of New 
 Mexico they can not enter the school because they can not pass the 
 preliminary examination; so they must have a school of their own. 
 It is absolutely just and right, now that they have built dams and 
 are settling up the valley. The lands in that valley are going up 
 by leaps and bounds. The land that can be bought for $12,000 to-day 
 in another year could not be bought for twice that sum. They should 
 have that amount of $12,000 now. 
 
 I will leave it to the committee, because that is as far as I am pre- 
 pared to go. I am prepared to go into details. They have written 
 me that they need $12,000 for buying land for this school, and I 
 want to say now that, in my judgment, that is the way to educate 
 people of this kind, to give them something that will be of actual 
 benefit to them. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That is, buy land for the school itself ? 
 
 Senator Fall. Yes. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I move that the item be inserted in the bill. 
 
 Senator Fall. Here is what Mr. C. O. Cushman, president of the 
 Commercial Club of Albuquerque, says: 
 
 We wisli to urge especially that at least the sum of $8,000 be authorized for 
 repairs and improvements, in order that the plant may be placed in a good state 
 of repair, that the appropriation of $12,000 requested for the purchase of addi- 
 tional land be made, and that the amount for support and education he increased 
 to $72,775, iu order to provide for 425 instead of 400 pupils, as in the past. 
 
 He further says: 
 
 The school has 72 acres of land, of which 30 acres are occupied by buildings, 
 playgrounds, corrals, etc., leaving 42 acres only for garden, farm, and grazing 
 purposes. All of the land is utilized. The dairy herd has increased and a larger 
 acreage is greatly needed. By having more land for farming purposes, all of 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 731 
 
 the hay required for the dairy herd and other stock can be raised as well as 
 a larger quantity of subsistence supplies for pupils. Farming and gardening 
 should be made chief among the industries taught at this school. Only about 
 10 acres of the poorest part of the school farm can be set aside for pasture, and 
 this IS not sufficient for tLu dairy herd. A much larger acreage is needed. With 
 the mcreased attendance of 400 a larger acreage can be farmed profitably, and it 
 would be a splendid investment to purchase this additional land. The Indians 
 in New Mexico support themselves by farming and stock raising, and the pupils 
 attending boarding schools should receive special instruction and training in 
 these industries. Without an increased acreage of land it is impracticable to . 
 raise any stock, excepting a few hogs, and it is impossible to make the farming 
 operations adequate to the needs of the pupils and school. Land in this section 
 ■of the country is rapidly increasing in value, and the acquiring of the addi- 
 tional acreage should not be longer postponed. 
 
 Funds necessary for the purchase of additional land for school farm, $12,000. 
 
 The Chairman. How much additional land will that $12,000 
 purchase, do you think? 
 
 Senator Fall. They will pay something like $100 an acre for the 
 land. I have not the exact facts 
 
 The Chair3ian. That includes water rights? 
 
 Senator Fall. Yes ; that includes water rights. But the lands are 
 there, and the lands below there are worth $250 an acre now. The 
 people of Albuquerque assist in every way possible in supporting 
 these schools. It is right in the town of Albuquerque, which is the 
 largest town we have in the State. That is one thing that I pro- 
 pose to fortify myself with. I supposed they had the detailed data 
 here as to just what land they could purchase. But of course it will 
 be under the charge of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 The Chairman. The item on line 1, page 49, will be changed to 
 $81,550, and after the word " road " on line 4 — — 
 
 Senator Fall. Strike out the words " that not to exceed $200 may 
 be expended in the purchase of a fractional acre south of the school 
 farm and adjoining the public road," and insert "not exceeding 
 §12,000 may be expended in the purchase of additional acreage ad- 
 joining the school farm." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 The Chairman. Will you confer with the Assistant Secretary in 
 order that the appropriate language may be inserted? 
 
 Senator Fall. Yes. 
 
 Senator Clapp. We here understand what is meant by Pueblo In- 
 dians, but these hearings will come under the observation of people 
 who may not be familiar with that designation, and it might be well 
 for you to explain what it means. 
 
 Senator Fall. The Pueblo Indians, as we call them, embrace all 
 the diiferent settlements of sedentary Indians or farming Indians in 
 New Mexico, who were found there by the Spaniards when they first 
 came to this country — the Hopis and the Zunis, and all the different 
 tribes and families of those house-living Indians who had perma- 
 nent places of abode. They had irrigation there on the Rio Grande 
 before any so-called white men were ever on this continent. 
 
 Senator Clapp. In other words, it is not a tribal designation ? 
 
 Senator Fall. It is not a tribal designation but a generic term 
 covering all the sedentary house-living Indians in New Mexico. 
 Those people were there before there was anybody on the eastern 
 shores. 
 
732 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. That is a very valuable contribution to the litera- 
 ture of our committee. 
 
 Senator Fall. I desire to add that they are as hard v^orkers as 
 people in this country. I have seen them carrying water for hun- 
 dreds of yards in buckets to irrigate their little crops v?hen the irri- 
 gation ditches did not have wsLtev. They keep their fruit growing. 
 They have had fruit growing since it was introduced by the Span- 
 iards in this country. They have peacli orchards perpetuating the 
 old peach orchards of 250 years ago ; also the mission grape that was 
 first introduced into this country by the friars. 
 
 Now, as to Santa Fe, my colleague has asked me to call the atten- 
 tion of the committee to the fact that they also have a waiting list, 
 and instead of 350 pupils they have 400. He asks me to present to 
 the committee the request as contained in a letter from Supt. Snyder. 
 I will say to the committee that I am not personally as well ac- 
 quainted with the Santa Fe school as I am with the Albuquerque 
 school. Senator Catron is far away from my locality, but it is the 
 same character of school and dealing with the same pupils exactly. 
 They want an additional amount for 400 pupils, as follows : 
 
 For support and education of 400 pupils at the Indian school at Santa Fe, 
 N. Mex., and for pay of superintendent, $68,600. 
 
 The item as allowed, I see, is changed from $59,550, in line 7, to 
 $63,550. They ask for $68,600, and for general repairs and improve- 
 ments they ask $8,000 instead of $5,000, and they ask the same item 
 for water supply, $1,600. 
 
 They also make a request for an appropriation for a gymnasium, 
 which was allowed by this committee and by Congress, or partly 
 allowed by Congress for a gymnasium at Albuquerque. 
 
 I can only repeat what I said at the last meeting of the committee 
 on a similar occasion, that it is a very great error to make a frac- 
 tional appropriation. For instance, this committee will allow a total 
 item based on absolute estimates as being necessary for the construc- 
 tion of certain buildings, and it goes to conference and it is arbi- 
 trarily cut in two without any earthly reason as far as I can see. 
 Without any knowledge on the subject, but purely and simply as a 
 matter of compromise, it is cut in two. Of course, we will take what 
 we can get if we can not get what we want. 
 
 The Chairman. On line 7, then, you wish the figures $63,550 to 
 read $68,320? 
 
 Senator Fall. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. And on line 8, improvements, $5,000, increased to 
 $8,000? 
 
 Senator Fall. Yes. And on line 5, instead of 350 it should be 400. 
 
 The Chairman. And the total increased accordingly? 
 
 Senator Fall. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. How about that gymnasium? 
 
 Senator Fall. We will not insist on that, because I have not the 
 data. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to those increases? 
 
 Senator Lane. They are all necessary, I think. 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection it is agreed to. Has 
 any other Senator any matter to bring before the committee ? 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 733 
 
 PENALTr rOR MAKING PROHIBITED CONTRACTS WITH INDIANS. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Senators Lane, Kobinson, and myself were 
 appointed as a committee to consider the matter of a penalty for 
 making prohibited contracts with the Indians, and are prepared to 
 present an amendment. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Amending section 5, act of June 25, 1910. 
 
 Senator La Follette. .We have prepared an amendment to that 
 providing a heavier penalty upon any agent or employee who shall 
 conspire to secure the making of such prohibited contract. I will 
 read the proposed amendment into the record : 
 
 Add to the item in the center of page 98, hearings on the Indian appropria- 
 tion bill, the following: 
 
 "And any United States Indian agent, superintendent, or employee who shall 
 in any manner connive or conspire to secure or assist in securing the making of 
 such prohibited contract shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon 
 conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $1,000 or shall be 
 imprisoned not exceeding one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment." 
 
 Senator Lane. Does that include both realty and personalty, too? 
 Senator La Follette. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We ask that section 5 of the act approved June 25, 
 1910, be amended so as to read : 
 
 Sec. 5. That it shall be unlawful for any person to induce any Indian to 
 execute any contract, deed, mortgage, lease, or other instrument touching 
 land held under a trust or other patent containing restrictions on alienation, 
 or to procure the execution by any Indian of any such instrument, or to be a 
 party with any Indian to any such contract, deed, mortgage, lease, or other 
 instrument, or to offer any such contract, deed, mortgage, lease, or other in- 
 strument as aforesaid for record ; and any person violating this provision shall 
 be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction shall be punished by 
 a fine not exceeding $500 for the first offense, and if convicted of a second 
 offense may be punished by a fine not exceeding $500, or imprisoned not exceed- 
 ing one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment in the discretion of the 
 court. 
 
 Senator Owen. This is the statute now? 
 
 jV[i'. ISIeeitt. Yes; in a large part; and we are asking that it be 
 modified [reading] : 
 
 Provided, That this section shall not apply to any contract, rleed. mortgage, 
 lease, or other instrument authorized by law to be made. Any Indian or his 
 heirs in the possession of any live stock, their increase, or any other personal 
 propertv issued by the United States or purchased with trust funds and held 
 in trust 1)V the United States, may lawfully sell, transfer, mortgage, or other- 
 wise dispose of such property only ^inth the consent in writing of the United 
 States Indian ajent or snrerintendent having jurisdiction over such property 
 and not otherwise. Any person who shall induce any Indian to sell, transfer, 
 mortgage, or otherwise dispose of, or shall procure the sale, transfer, mort- 
 gage," or other disposal by any Indian, or shall be a party with any Indian to 
 the sale transfer, mortsrage, or other disposal of any such personal property 
 In violation of the foregoing jirovision, or who shall knowingly offer for record 
 anv in'itrument evidencing anv prohibited or uiilawfnl sale, transfer, mortgage, 
 or'other disposal of any such personal property, or who shall take or receive 
 possession of any such personal property in pursuance to any such prohibited 
 or unlawful sale, transfer, mortgage, or other transaction, shall be deemed 
 guilty of a misdemeanor, and shall upon conviction be punished by a fine not 
 exceeding $500, or imprisonment not exceeding one year, or by both such fine 
 and imprisonment. Any sale, transfer, mortgage, or other disposal id viola- 
 tion of this provisioi. oi any property so issued and held shall be absolutely 
 void and title to the property involved in such void transaction shall revert 
 to tlie United States, and the property may be taken possession of by the United 
 
734 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 
 
 States Indian agent or superintendent liaving jurisdiction over the property. 
 Any Indian or other person having tribal rights who shall Induce any person 
 to enter into any such contract, deed, mortgage, lease, sale, transfer, or other 
 agreement or transaction prohibited and declared to be unlawful by the above 
 provisions, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and shall upon conviction 
 be punished by a fine not exceeding $500, or Imprisonment not exceeding one 
 year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. 
 
 Senator Owen. Was that a general statute? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. That, I suppose, is intended to apply to those re- 
 stricted Indians, so called? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. It does not apply to those who might have some 
 trace of Indian blood? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Not at all ; simply to restricted Indians and restricted 
 property. As it is now, we are issuing property to Indians for their 
 industrial benefit, and mixed-blood Indians will go and get that 
 property from the full bloods and dispose of it to white purchasers 
 at a very low figure, and it is for the protection of the full-blood In- 
 dians that we are asking for this legislation. Senator La FoUette 
 offers this amendment to be added at the close of this item, I suppose. 
 
 Senator Lane. This covers realty as well as personal property, do 
 you think. Senator La FoUette? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think the original amendment which you 
 proposed applied to just personal property. There is a statute, is 
 there not, that protects as to real property ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; and we are amending it so as to apply to 
 personal property. 
 
 The Chaieman. In the absence of objection the amendment is 
 agreed to. 
 
 (Thereupon, at 12 o'clock m., the committee adjourned until Tues- 
 day, February 16, 1915, at 10 o'clock a. m.) 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 1915. 
 
 Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate, 
 
 Washington, D. 0. 
 The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman). Lane, Robinson, Thomp- 
 son, Owen, Clapp, La FoUette, Page, Gronna, Townsend, and Fall; 
 also Mr. E. B. Meritt, Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 The Chairman. Has any Senator an item to bring before the com- 
 mittee ? 
 
 CLAIMS OF SISSETON AND WAHPETON BANDS OF SIOUX INDIANS. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I have a matter I wish to take up with the com- 
 mittee, if you will hear me. Last year we passed a bill in the Senate 
 on June 5, 1914, conferring jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to 
 hear, determine, and render judgment in claims of the Sisseton and 
 Wahpeton Bands of Sioux Indians against the United States. I 
 think most of the members of this committee will remember what 
 was said for and against it. 
 
 The Chairman. This has passed the Senate, has it not? 
 
 Senator -Gronna. It passed the Senate and was recommended by 
 the Interior Department; in fact, the bill was drawn by the Interior 
 Department. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What do you wish to do, Senator? 
 
 Senator Gronna. I want to put it on this bill, because the House 
 Members objected to it yesterday. They made the statement that 
 they thought it should have gone to the Committee on Claims instead 
 of to the Committee on Indian Affairs. I think that is not a very 
 good reason and I should like very much to have it on this bill. 
 
 The Chairman. There is no appropriation called for ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. No appropriation whatever. 
 
 The Chairman. The attorney fee is limited to $15,000 in any 
 event ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. It is; very carefully. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Does anybody object to this going on? 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection, it will go on the bill 
 under " North Dakota." 
 
 The following report accompanies the bill : 
 
 [House Report No. 1274, 63d Cong., 3d sess.] 
 
 The Committee on Indian Affairs, to whom was referred the bill (S. 5255) 
 conferring jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear, determine, and render 
 Judgment in claims of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux Indians 
 
 735 
 
736 INDIAN APPROi'BIATION BILL. 
 
 against the United States, having carefully considered the same, recommends 
 that the bill be nmended audi that as amended it do pass. 
 
 Amend the bill as follows : 
 
 Page 2, line 1, after the word "States," strike out the words " and to enter 
 judgment thereon," and in lieu thereof insert the following — 
 "and also any legal or equitable defense, set-off, or counterclaim which the 
 United States may have against said Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux 
 Indians, and to enter judgment, and in determining the amount to be entered 
 herein the court shall deduct from any ^ms found due saidl Sisseton and 
 Wahpeton Bands of Sioux Indians any and all gratuities paid said bands, or 
 individual members thereof, subsequent to March third, eighteen hundred and 
 sixty-three: Provided, That in determining the amount to be rendered herein, 
 the value of the land involved shall not exceed the value of such land on March 
 third, eighteen hundred and sixty-three." 
 
 Page 2, line IS. strike out the words "and oral testimony, depositions, and 
 sworn statements by members of said bands of Indians." 
 
 Said bill as amended will read as follows : 
 
 AN ACT Conferring jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear, determine, and rendei 
 .iudsment in claims of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux Indians against the 
 United States. 
 
 Be it enacted l/y the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
 of America in Congress assembled, That all claims of whatsoever nature which 
 the Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux Indians may have or claim to have 
 against the United States shall be submitted to the Court of Claims, with the 
 right to appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States by either party, for 
 the amount due or claimed to be due said bands from the United States under 
 any treaties or laws of Congress; and jurisdiction is hereby conferred upon the 
 Court of Claims to hear and determine all claims of said bands against the 
 United States and also any Ifegal or equitable defense, set-oflf, or counterclaim 
 which the United States may have against said Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands 
 of Sioiix Indians, and to enter judgment, and in determining the amount to be 
 entered herein the court shall deduct from any sums found due said Sisseton 
 and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux Indians any and nil gratuities paid said bands 
 or iiKlividnal members thereof, subsequent to March 3, 1863: Provided, That in 
 determining the amount to be entered herein, the value of the laud involved 
 shall not exceed the value of such land on March 3. 1863. If any such question 
 is submitted to said court it sh.iU settle tlie rights, both legal and equitable, of 
 said bands of Indians and the United States, notwithstanding lapse of time or 
 statute of limitations. Such action in the Court of Claims shall be presented 
 by a single petition, to be filed within one year after the passage of this act, 
 making the United St.-ites a party defendant which shall set forth all the facts 
 on which tlie naid bands of Indians base their claims for recovery: and the 
 said iDetilion may be verified hy the agent or authorized attorney or attorneys 
 of said bands, to be selected by said bands and employed under contract ap- 
 proved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior, 
 in accordance with the provisions of existing law, upon information or belief 
 as to the existence of such facts, and no other statements or verifications shall 
 be necessary. Official letters, papers, reports, and public records, or certified 
 copies thereof, may be used as evidence. Whatever moneys may be found due 
 the Sisseton and Wnhpeton Bands of Indians under the provisions of this act, 
 less attorney's fees, shall be placed to their credit in the Treasury of the United 
 States: Prnuidcd, That the compensation to be paid the attorney or attorneys 
 for the claimant Indians shall be determined by the Secretary of the Interior, 
 but in any event shall not be greater than the amount named in the approved 
 contract: Provided further. That such compensation shall in no event exceed 
 $15,000. 
 
 The legislation proposed In this bill has the indorsement of the Secretary of 
 the Interior, as evidenced by the following letter, reporting on H. R. 5816: 
 
 Department of the Inteeior, 
 
 'Washington, January 6, 1!)15. 
 My De.\k Mr. Stephens : I have received your letter of December 17, 1914, 
 inclosing with request for report thereon, a copy of Senate .'"1250. " Conferring 
 Jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear, determine, and render judgment 
 in claims of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux Indians against the 
 United States." 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BlLl.. 737 
 
 ^^ i^^^^^^' ^°' ■^^^'^' ™ reporting on H. R. 5816, this department recom- 
 menaed that tlie claims of tliese Indians be referred to the Court of Claims. 
 On January 29, 1914, a similar report was made on S. 113. 
 
 S. 5255 is practically the legislation recommended by this department, and I 
 see no objection to its passage. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 
 _ First Assistant Seoretarv. 
 
 Hon. John H. Stephens, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives. 
 
 The following report of the Indian Affairs Committee of the Senate sets out 
 in full the attitude of the department and also explains in detail in the second 
 letter of the First Assistant Secretary of the Interior the contention of the In- 
 dians. The committee adopts as part of this report the following report of the 
 Senate on this bill: 
 
 [Senate Report No. 436, Sixty-third Congress, second session.] 
 
 The Committet! on Indian AfCairs, to which was referred the bill (S. 5255) 
 conferring jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear, determine, and render 
 jndgmeut in claims of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux Indians 
 against the United States, having carefully considered the measure, reports 
 same to the Senate and recommends that it do pass, amended as follows : 
 
 On puge 2, in line 23, strike out the words " Court of Claims " and in lieu 
 thereof insert " Secretary of the Interior." 
 
 On page 3, in line 2, beginning with the word " five," strike out all down to 
 and including the word " Indians," in line 3, and in lieu thereof insert " $15,000." 
 This bill has the approval of the Department of the Interior, as will be seen 
 from the following letter : 
 
 Depabtment of the Intebioe, 
 
 Washington, April 28, 1911f. 
 Mt Dear Senator : I have received your letter of April 14, 1914, referring to 
 S. 5255, a bill conferring jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear, determine, 
 and render judgment in claims of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux 
 Indians against the United States. 
 
 On January 29, 1914, a report was made on S. 113 which provided for a com- 
 mission to settle certain claims of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Indians against 
 the United States. In lieu of a commission it was suggested that jurisdiction 
 over the claims be conferred on the Court of Claims. A copy of the letter of 
 January 29 is Inclosed. S. 5255 is practically the legislation suggested, and no 
 objection is seen to its enactment by the Congress. 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 Hon. H. F. AsHUEST, 
 
 Chairman Com,mittee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, January 29, I91Jf. 
 
 Mt Dear Senator : I have received your letter of January 27, 1914, inclosing 
 for report S. 113, a bill providing for a commission to settle certain claims be- 
 tween the United States Government and the Sisseton and Wahpeton Indians, 
 and the Sioux: of the Medawakanton and Wahpakoota Bands. 
 
 H. R. 5816 has also been referred for report. This bill also provides for a 
 commission to settle the claims of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Indiaus. There 
 were two paragraphs added to the preamble in this bill which are not included 
 in S. 113. These paragraphs read : 
 
 " Whereas the Medawakanton and Wahpakoota Bands of Indians at the time 
 the said treaty of eighteen hundred and fifty-one was entered into had in fact 
 no interest whatsoever in the said lands tributary to the Minnesota River as 
 above described, for the reason that the said Medawakanton and Wahpakoota 
 Bands had already relinquished to the Government of the United States all 
 their right, title, and interest in and to all their lands by virtue of the treaties 
 made and entered into on July fifth, eighteen hundred and thirty, and October 
 fifteenth, eighteen hundred and thirty-six, including the said land located along 
 the bank's of the Minnesota River above described ; and 
 3— VOL 1—15 47 
 
738 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 " Whereas the Government of the United States has improperly credited sums 
 of money to the said Medawakanton and Wahpakoota Tribes on account of the 
 sale of the said lands as aforesaid, and has disbursed the said money so credited 
 to the said Medawakanton and Wahpakoota Tribes, which in fact belonged to 
 and was the property of the said Sisseton and Wahpeton Tribes." 
 
 From the preamble and the two paragraphs quoted above it appears that the 
 bill has reference to the claims of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Indians only 
 against the United States on account of the change made by the Senate in the 
 treaty of July 23, ISGl (10 Stat. L., 94i_)), with them, and also because the 
 Medawakanton and Wahpakoota Indians were paid a sum of money under the 
 treaty of August 5, 1851 (10 Stat. L., 054), the Sissetons and Wahpgtons believ- 
 ing that they are entitled to this money. 
 
 The Sissetons and Wahpetons claim that the treaty of July 23, 1851, by which 
 they ceded certain lands in Iowa and in the Territory of ilinnesota and accepted 
 lieu lands Ij'ing along the Minnesota River, was amended by the Senate without 
 their assent or ratification, by striking out the third article thereof and adding a 
 supplemental article by which they were paid for the lieu lands at the " grossly 
 inadequate '' rate of 30 cents per acre. 
 
 The facts shown by the records are that the United States, by the treaty of 
 July 23, 1S51, agreed in article 3 thereof to set aside " in part consideration of 
 the foregoing cession " certain lieu lands therein described lying along the 
 Minnesota River " whenever and in such manner as the President of the United 
 States shall direct." Article 4 thereof provided that " in further and full con- 
 sideration of said cession, the United States agree to pay the said Indians the 
 sum of .$1,665,000." The Senate amended the treaty by striking out the third 
 article and adding the following : 
 
 " 1. The United States do hereby stipulate to pay the Sioux Bands of Indians, 
 parties to this treaty, at the rate of 10 cents per acre, for the lands included in 
 the reservation provided for in the third article of the treaty as originally 
 agreed upon. * * * 
 
 " 2. It is further stipulated that the President be authorized, with the assent 
 of the said bands of Indians, parties to this treaty, and as soon after they shall 
 have given their assent to the foregoing article as may be convenient, to cause 
 to be set apart by appropriate landmarks and boundaries such tracts of country 
 without the limits of the cession made by the first (2d) article of the treaty 
 as may be satisfactory for their future occupancy and home : Provided, That 
 the President may, by the consent of these Indians, vary the conditions afore- 
 said if deemed expedient." 
 
 The treaty of August 5, 1851, provided for the payment of $1,410,000 to the 
 Medawakanton and Wahpakoota Bands. The third article of this treaty, which 
 was similar to the third article of the treaty of July 23, was also stricken out 
 by the Senate and amended in -the same manner as that treaty. 
 
 The said amendments made by the Senate were submitted to the said bands 
 of Sioux, who gave their " free and voluntary assent thereto " September 8, 
 1852, and September 4, 1852. (10 Stat. L., 952 and 958.) 
 
 By the act of July 31, 1854 (10 Stat. L., 315-326), the President was author- 
 ized " to confirm to the Sioux of Minnesota, forever, the reserve on the Minne- 
 sota River now occupied by them, upon such conditions as he may deem just." 
 
 This was done, and the reservation so established continued to be occupied by 
 these Indians until their treaties on June IS and 19, 1858 (12 Stat. L., 
 1031-1037), whereby they ceded the part thereof lying north of the Minnesota 
 River and retained the land south of said river. By Senate resolution of June 27, 
 1860 (12 Stat. L., 1042), these bands were paid 30 cents per acre for the ceded 
 lands north of the river. 
 
 Following the so-called Minnesota massacre or outbreak of the said bands 
 of Sioux, in 1862, Congress, by the act of March 3, 1863 (Stat. L., 819), pro- 
 vided for their removal " beyond the limits of any State," and for the disposi- 
 tion of their remaining lands in Minnesota— the proceeds thereof to be ap- 
 plied for their benefit under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior in 
 their new home. 
 
 By the act of February 16, 1863 (12 Stat. L., 652), Congress, as a punishment 
 for the outbreak mentioned, declared : 
 
 " That all treaties heretofore made and entered into by the Sisseton Wahpe- 
 ton, Medawakanton, and Wahpakoota Bands of Sioux of Dakota Indians or 
 any of them, with the United States, are hereby declared to be abrogated 'and 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 739 
 
 annulled, so far as said treaties or any of them purporting to impose any 
 future obligation on the tlnited States, and all lands and rights of occupancy 
 within the State of Minnesota and all annuities and claims heretofore accrued 
 to said Indians, or any of them, to be forfeited to the United States." 
 
 Under the provisions of the act of June 21, 1906 (34 Stat. L., 325-372), tfie 
 claim of the Sisseton and ■\\'ahpeton Bands for the restoration of the annuities 
 so forfeited was heard by the Court of Claims, which rendered a judgment in 
 their favor. By the act of May 30, 1908 (35 Stat. L., 478-514), Congress appro- 
 priated, to satisfy the judgment, the sum of $788,866.87, which amount was 
 distributed among the claimants entitled thereto — a pro rata of $157.40. 
 
 As to the contention of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Indians that they are en- 
 titled to the money paid to the Medawakanton and Wahpakoota Indians, be- 
 cause these bands had theretofore given up all their rights by the treaties of 
 July 5 (July 15), 1830 (7 Stat. L., 328), and October 15 (Nov. 30), 1836 (7 
 Stat., 52i), attention is invited to the fact that the Sisseton and Wahpeton 
 Indians agreed, by the treaty of July 23, 1851, to cede all their interest in the 
 lands therein described to the Government, and if the Government chose to 
 treat with the iledawakanton and Wahpakoota Indians for the cession of any 
 interest which they believed they might have, it is not seen that the Sisseton 
 and Wahpeton Bands would have any claim against the Government for the 
 amount so paid to the Jledawakanton and Wahpkoota Bands. Moreover, the 
 Sisseton, Wahpeton, iledawakanton, and Wahpakoota Bands of Indians were 
 all parties to the treaty of July 15, 1830, and the Sisseton, Wahpakoota, and 
 Upper Medavi'akanton Indians were parties to the treaty of November 30, 1836. 
 
 From the foregoing history of the various treaties with these bands of Sioux 
 and from the records of this department it is believed that the claims set forth 
 in the bill are without merit. The Indians, however, are of the opinion that 
 they have a claim against the Government which should be adjusted. 
 
 In view of this fact, the department is of the opinion that the claims of these 
 Indians, instead of being investigated and reported upon by a commission, 
 should be submitted to the Court of Claims for adjustment, with the right of 
 either party to appeal to the Supreme Court. 
 
 It is therefore recommended that the title of the bill be changed to read : 
 
 "A bill conferring jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear, determine, and 
 render judgment in claims of the Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux In- 
 dians against the United States." 
 
 It is further recommended that the preamble be omitted and that the bill be 
 further amended by striking out all after the enacting clause and inserting in 
 lieu thereof the following : 
 
 " That all claims of whatsoever nature which the Sisseton and Wahpeton 
 Bands of Sioux Indians may have or claim to have against the United States 
 shall be submitted to the Court of Claims, with the right of appeal to the Su- 
 preme Court of the United States, by either party for the amount due or 
 claimed to be due said bands from the United States under any treaties or laws 
 of Congress; and jurisdiction is hereby conferred upon the Court of Claims to 
 hear and determine all claims of said bands against the United States and to 
 enter judgment thereon. If any such question is submitted to said court it 
 shall settle the rights, both legal and equitable, of the said bands of Indians and 
 the United States, notwithstanding lapse of time or statue of limitations. 
 Such action in the Court of Claims shall be presented by a single petition, to be 
 filed within two years after the passage of this act, making the United States 
 a party defendant ; shall set forth all the facts on which the said bands of In- 
 dians base their claims for recovery; and the said petition may be verified by 
 the agent or authorized attorney or attorneys of said bands to be employed 
 under contract approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior, in accordance with the provisions of existing law, upon 
 information or belief as to the existence of such facts, and no other statements 
 or verifications shall be necessary. Official letters, papers, reports, and public 
 records, of certified copies thereof, may be used as evidence. Whatever moneys 
 may be found due the Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Indians under the pro- 
 visions of this act, less attorney's fees, shall be placed to their credit in the 
 Treasury of the United States: Provided, That the compensation to be paid 
 the attorney or attorneys for the claimant Indians shall be determined by the 
 Court of Claims, but in any event shall not be greater than the amount named 
 in the approved contract." 
 
740 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Should the bill be amended as herein recommended, I see no objection to its 
 enactment by the Congress. • 
 
 A draft of a bill as recommended above is inclosed. 
 
 Very truly, yours, ^^.^^^^ A.A.Jones, 
 
 * First Assistant Secretary. 
 
 Hon. William J. Stone, 
 
 Chairman Oommittee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there anybody who wishes to bring a matter to 
 the attention of the committee? 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. McMurray has an item he wished to present 
 to the committee. 
 
 CLAIMS FOR AND AGAINST CHOCTAWS AND CHICKASAWS AGAINST 
 
 A'TTORNEYS. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. J. F, M'MURRAY, ATTORNEY, M'ALESTER, 
 
 OKLA. 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAT. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, 
 at the suggestion of the Secretary of the Interior I asked him to pay 
 certain items of mine that he has in his department. After much 
 discussion about the matter he said he could not pay the items, but the 
 only thing he could do was to refer it to a forum where those items 
 would be thrashed out and settled. 
 
 The conditions down there are a bit peculiar, as you well under- 
 stand. The Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations for whom I worked 
 many years can get before the courts or the Government can and sue 
 me, and I have no way of offsetting Avhatever they suggest or what- 
 ever they do there, so, as a matter of fact, they have brought a suit 
 against me and they have recovered a judgment for $14,000 against 
 me and that judgment is now standing in the courts of Oklahoma. 
 Under the law, you understand, I can not sue them. The Govern- 
 ment, for the Choctaw and Chickasaw people, brought this suit. 
 They, acting for themselves, would not have brought it, but the Gov- 
 ernment brought it for them to recover this judgment, and I am 
 barred from even setting up an offset or counter claim or anything 
 that tends to lessen that judgment, because of the condition of the 
 law. It takes the consent of this Government for them before I can 
 bring a suit, and that is the case, notwithstanding I sit by and have 
 "within my possession a contract made by the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 people, which I have here, made under the law passed by this 
 Congresss. 
 
 Senator Owen. You had better submit it in the record, so we will 
 know what it is. 
 
 Mr. McMurray. I will. In 1902 Congress passed an act provid- 
 ing that the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations had the right to sue 
 for what is known as the lands allotted to the Chickasaw freedmen. 
 The Secretary objected to that suit, as some gentlemen now in Con- 
 gress know, because he said it would be useless litigation and vex- 
 atious litigation, and would delay the settlement of the affairs. I 
 insisted that suit ought to be brought, and Senator Piatt, of Con- 
 necticut, and Senators Jones, of Arkansas, and Quarles, of Wiscon- 
 sin, and some others took the position that the suit ought to be 
 brought, to determine whether they might recover or might not. 1 
 
, INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 741 
 
 brought the suit under the act that was passed at that time, the act 
 providing that the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations might employ 
 counsel to represent them in this litigation. They employed my firm 
 and the suit was brought for $606,000 before the Court of Claims, 
 and after fightmg it a year and a half it was tried out fully and 
 judgment was rendered for the exact amount we sued for, $606,000. 
 The Government appealed that to the Supreme Court of the United 
 States and there it was affirmed. I went before the Appropriations 
 Committee at the other end of the Capitol and they appropriated the 
 money and it was paid. 
 
 That act provided, as I say, that the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 people might employ counsel to represent them, and here is the con- 
 tract made by the Choctaw and Chickasaw people, which was sub- 
 mitted to the Interior Department, approved by the Commissioner 
 of Indian Affairs, approved by the Secretary of the Interior, Mr. 
 Hitchcock, in all due forms, under section 2103, conforming to every 
 particular that was prescribed by the Government. This suit was 
 brought forth through and the expenses paid by us and the judg- 
 ment was recovered, and yet I sit here with this contract in my 
 hand and the Secretary of the Interior says that under the law, as it 
 is now, he can not pay it. I have been asking him to pay it. He 
 declined to pay it but said that all I had to do is to refer you to a 
 forum for a final settlement, and that being all I can do I am here 
 asking that the matter be taken up and referred to the court so that 
 I will have the benefit of the offsets and contracts, as any one else 
 would have between man and man. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What is the amount you claim? 
 
 Mr. McMuERAT. $27,500. The contract was for 6 per cent of what 
 I might recover. Nothing, if I did not recover. The Secretary of 
 the Interior, in approving it approved it, but provided that the 
 total amount should not exceed $27,500, and that is the amount 
 that I am asking for under this contract. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. On what ground is it now held that the de- 
 partment has no jurisdiction to pay it? 
 
 Mr. McMuERAY. Congress put into the appropriation bill some 
 years ago that no funds of the Indians should be paid out unless it 
 was approved here and a specific appropriation made. I asked the 
 Secretary to suggest that the appropriation be made, but he said 
 he did not care to do that because this matter would be taken up; 
 they wanted to figure out between me and the Choctaw and Chicka- 
 saw people, and said all they could do was to refer it to the Court of 
 Claims. Here is the report of the Secretary of the Interior in which 
 he says this matter ought to go to the Court of Claims for adjust- 
 ment. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Have you prepared a provision that you want 
 
 incorporated in the bill? 
 
 Mr. MoMuEEAY. Yes, sir ; I have. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What is the language of it? 
 
 Mr. McMtjekay. And that has been referred to particularly. Be- 
 fore we get to that I want to suggest this further that some years 
 ago the Choctaw and Chickasaw people needed funds to do some- 
 thing that they had to do in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. 
 They asked me to go on their notes— they asked the firm of Mans- 
 
742 INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 field, McMurray & Cornish to go on their notes in Texas. You 
 understand that in those days there were no banks m the Indian 
 Territory, and the banks on the border line, in Texas, Kansas, and 
 Arkansas, attended to the affairs and the banking business of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw people. As Senators here will understand 
 there were no banks over there at all, and if they wanted money they 
 went into Texas, or to Fort Smith, Ark., or to Kansas and got it. 
 
 The American National Bank at Fort Smith, I suppose, handled 
 $4,000,000 or $5,000,000 for the Choctaw people; the banks along 
 the border line of Texas, this bank that has this matter transferred 
 to them, has $10,000 of this item from Denison, Tex., and has handled 
 almost $2,000,000 of the loans of the Chickasaw Nation and some 
 for the Choctaw Nation. They needed this money, as they said, and 
 I went into Texas and signed their note here for $65,000 — the note 
 of Gov. Curtin and Gov. Johnson — and we got the money on this. 
 When the note became due those banks said, " We can not collect 
 this from the Chickasaw and Choctaw Nations, and we want you to 
 pay it." I paid this money, and it is their money and for those 
 different things that arise here. The Department of the Interior 
 says that the only thing they can do is to refer it to the courts for a 
 general settlement of these matters. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Have you in any way been reimbursed? 
 
 Mr. McMuBEAT. No, sir; not one 5 cents. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What were the proceeds of that note used for, 
 Mr. McMurray? 
 
 Mr. McMiTEEAx. The proceeds of that note were used for trial of 
 the litigation that the Choctaw and Chickasaw people had pending 
 in the courts at that time. Not one penny of that has come to me, 
 and they will tell you so. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How was it disbursed, the proceeds of that 
 note? 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAT. That involves the accounts. That was disbursed 
 by Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish for them, and every cent of the 
 vouchers is down here in the Department of the Interior now. They 
 have the vouchers, and every penny has been investigated, and it is 
 there, and those are the matters that they are referring also to the 
 Court of Claims for settlement and adjustment. 
 
 Senator Geonna. As I understand you, none of this money went 
 to your firm as fees? 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAT. Not one cent went to us for anything. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. It was all used for paying the expenses of 
 litigation ? 
 
 Mr. McMtjeray. Yes, sir; every cent of it, and the vouchers are 
 there. Every penny of the vouchers are there, and it is a question 
 for the courts to pass on whether those vouchers are proper vouchers 
 for expenditures. Nobody, I think, claims that they are not. But 
 they are there and will show for themselves. 
 
 The Chairman. Will you kindly read your proposed amendment? 
 
 Mr. McMuERAY. Yes, sir; it is as follows: 
 
 The Court of Claims is hereby authorized and directed to hear, consider, and 
 adjudicate all claims of J. F. McMurray, as the assignee of the firm of Mans- 
 field, McMurray & Cornish, and his assigns, against the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations of Indians, for all professional services rendered, expenses incurred 
 and disbursements made on behalf of said nations prior to March 4, 1907 ' 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 743 
 
 That is the time when the firm's connection with the Indians 
 ceased — 
 
 witli interest from date of such services or payments, on all amounts found 
 due to either party of rates prevailing at the time and place of the transactions 
 involved, and to render judgment in such amount as may be equitable and just, 
 which judgment, if auy, aj;ainst said nations shall be paid by the Treasurer of 
 the United States out of the funds of said n.itions as their interest may appear ; 
 and any amount found to be owing by the said J. F. McMurray to said Choctaw 
 and Chickasaw Nations may be offset against such claims and deducted from 
 any amount found to be due him thereon ; and notice of the filing of such suit 
 shall be served upon the principal chief of the Choctaw Nation and the gover- 
 nor of the Chickasaw Nation ; and said nations shall be represented therein by 
 the attorneys for said nations, respectively, and by the Attorney General of 
 the United States. 
 
 Senator Page. Why has this been delayed? Why has not some 
 action been taken before this time ? It is now eight years ago. 
 
 Mr. McjMuerat. Senator, this final judgment here has been ren- 
 dered within the last two or three years, and I have now for a year 
 and a half been in communication with the Interior Department 
 asking them to pay this. I thought they could pay it. About one 
 year ago the Secretary of the Interior suggested to me that he 
 thought under the judiciary code, section 148, it provides that all 
 matters and things before any department that are unsettled and 
 about which there is a dispute might be referred by the head of the 
 department to the Court of Claims for adjustment; but recently in 
 the White Earth case it has been held that that refers to matters 
 only where the Government of the United States is a party and not 
 to Indian matters, so the Assistant Secretary of the Interior, Mr. 
 Jones, told me very frankly that the idea I had, and you had, that 
 this could be referred by us to the Court of Claims is a mistake ; that 
 we can not do it, and that the only way we could get the benefit of 
 these matters is to get Congress to refer it to the Court of Claims. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Did I understand you to say that the Indians, 
 or somebody, had obtained judgment against you? 
 
 Mr. McMurray. You correctly understood me. They got a judg- 
 ment in connection M'ith certain coal leases — royalty on coal. I 
 should like to explain that to the committee. I have certain leases 
 from the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations; and the law provides 
 that a certain royalty shall be paid, and about seven years ago the 
 Secretary of the Interior made a ruling and regulation that instead 
 of paying $500 a year advance royalty that there should be $1,700 
 a year paid in lieu of a minimum output. The lease would not 
 stand it. I could not pay it. Nobody else could pay it, so they sued 
 me on that, and I took the matter up to the courts and prevailed. I 
 tendered the payment of $500 as the law required, but declined to 
 pay the $1,700, and in that I prevailed. The court held with me 
 that no such regulation could vary the terms of the lease, but ren- 
 dered judgment against me for $500. I wanted to take up the mat- 
 ters they were owing me, but the court declined to deduct them in 
 
 any way. . , -, i • ^ 
 
 Senator Geonna. So that the judgment rendered agamst you is 
 
 a valid debt due the Indians? 
 
 Mr. McMurrat. Yes, sir ; it is. I have never said it was not, but 
 I do say that these matters that they owe me ought to be, in some way, 
 
744 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 adjusted along with this settlement, and they say so too. The In- 
 dians say so too. The Secretary of the Interior says so ; he says it 
 ought to be taken up and the matter ought to be adjusted m proper 
 form, and that the only way he can suggest is that it be referred to 
 the Court of Claims. 
 
 Senator Geonna. What is the amount of that judgment? 
 
 Sir. McMuERAT. $606,000— $14,000. 
 
 Senator Gronna. You would be willing to deduct the $14,000 from 
 the amount $27,500 which you claim from the Indians ? 
 
 Mr. McMuERAT. Yes, sir; whatever the court finds is the proper 
 deduction there I would be perfectly willing to make it. It would 
 be a little bit more than that because it is bearing interest. It would 
 be more than that. But whatever the court finds that is I would be 
 perfectly willing that it should be deducted. But I am at a very 
 great disadvantage because these people can sue me ; they can obtain 
 a judgment against me; I can not come in and say, "You can not 
 sue me," but when I come to sue them or plead a set-off, or deduct 
 that in any way they will say, " You can not sue the Nation without 
 the consent of the Government," and I realize that it is futile for 
 me to stand and argue against that because that is the law. I have 
 proclaimed it from too many forums all over this country in con- 
 nection with their litigation for me to deny. I know it is the case. 
 
 Therefore the Secretary of the Interior says that the only thing 
 that he can do is to refer us to the Court of Claims and let the 
 Court of Claims take the matter and adjust these affairs as between 
 us and these people. If there were some way to submit this matter to 
 the Choctaw and Chickasaw people, I would, with all confidence, 
 submit it there and let them pass on it, but the Government handles 
 all their funds. If it should be submitted to the vote of the Choctaw 
 and Chickasaw people I would do it with all confidence that what- 
 ever is right toward me would be paid. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I notice that your provision there contemplates 
 a judgTuent? 
 
 Mr. McMuBRAY. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Not simply a finding of fact ? 
 
 Mr. McMuRRAY. That is correct. The Court of Claims, you know, 
 makes two kinds of findings, one finding of fact and one of judg- 
 ment. This provides for a judgment. I thought that was proper 
 if they determined that something is due me for them to render a 
 judgment and pay it. Of course that is a matter for this committee 
 to pass upon, and I would much prefer that should be done, but that 
 is a matter for the committee. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. McMurray presented this item, or one like it, 
 to me some time ago, and I sent it over to the Secretary of the In- 
 terior asking for information with regard to it; asking what his 
 view was. He wrote me a letter on February 12, 1915, which, 
 perhaps, ought to be read to the committee in connection with this 
 matter, and he sent over certain exhibits also from the Indian au- 
 thorities with regard to it, giving their point of view, which I think 
 also should be included in the record. Does the committee care to 
 have the Secretary's letter read into the record? 
 
 Senator Page. Senator, before you read it will you please give me 
 your opinion as to whether or not this would go out on a point of 
 order ? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 745 
 
 Senator Owen. I think a point of order would lie against it. 
 
 Senator Page. Then why do we take the time if we are pretty cer- 
 tain a point of order will be made? 
 
 Senator Owen. That is a matter for the committee. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Strictly speaking a point of order would not lie 
 against this, this being a claim not against the Government but 
 against the Jndians. That was held years ago. There is that dif- 
 ference between a claim against the Government and a claim against 
 the Indians. 
 
 Senator Page. I should like to know, before we take more time on 
 this matter, whether it can go out on a point of order. 
 
 Senator Owen. I did not know about the precedent spoken of. I 
 thought it was subject to a point of order. 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAY. I want to say this. I have been pretty carefully 
 through it. I do not think it is a subject to a point of order. Here 
 is the law that was passed by Congress ; here is the law under which 
 we proceed ; here is an act that all the formalities have been complied 
 with, approved by the Secretary of the Interior, and that is the law 
 and I do not believe it is subject to a point of order. 
 
 Senator Owen. Your contention is that is carrying out the existing 
 law? 
 
 Mr. McMtjeeay. That is carrying out the existing law, and as 
 Senator Clapp says it is not money out of the Treasury, but is the 
 money out of the hands of the Indians, and I do not think it is sub- 
 ject to a point of order. 
 
 The Chairman. Let us have the letter of the Secretary of the In- 
 terior read. 
 
 Senator Owen. I will ask Mr. McMurray to read it. 
 
 Mr.McMimEAT (reading). 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 Washington, Fe'bruary 12, 1915. 
 
 JlY Deab Senator: I am in receipt of your letter of January 12, inclosing^ 
 draft of a proposed item of legislation intended to confer jurisdiction upon 
 the Court of Claims to consider and determine the claims of Mansfield, McMur- 
 ray & Cornish against the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, and the claims 
 of said Nations against said firm. 
 
 In response to your request for information as to the views of the representa- 
 tives of the nations respecting such legislation, I am inclosing you copies of 
 replies to an inquiry addressed to the parties by the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affairs, as follows : Letter of January 25, 1915, from D. H. Johnston, governor 
 for the Chickasaw Nation ; letter of same date from Reford Bond, national at- 
 torney Chickasaw Nation; letter of January 29 from Victor M. Locke, jr., 
 principal chief, Choctaw Nation ; letter of January 28, 1915, from P. J. Hurley, 
 attorney for Choctaw Nation. I inclose also copy of a letter, dated February 
 3. 1915, from Melvin Cornish, a member of the former firm of Mansfield, McMur- 
 
 '"'^The claims against the nations are on account of professional sevices ren- 
 dered by the firm to the nations covering a period from July 18, 1899, to March, 
 1907 and for expenses incurred in connection with such employment. It is 
 understood that Mr. McMurray holds these claims, and this is aflirmed by Mr. 
 Cornish in his letter of February 3, when he says : .^ ^. 
 
 " Several years ago Mr. McMurray purchased, for a valuable consideration, 
 all of the assets of the firm, including the present claims. At that time the 
 firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish was dissolved, and since then it has 
 had no legal existence." , , ^ j. i^. j. j.- 
 
 This department has no definite information as to the date of this transaction 
 or the character of instrument supposed to effect the txansfer 
 
 One claim against the nations is for $27,500, as a fee m the litigation re- 
 specting the rights of the Chickasaw freedmen, which resulted in a judgment 
 
746 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 against the United States for the value of lands allotted or to be allotted to such 
 freedmen. The judgment of the Court of Claims in favor of the nations was 
 nffirmed by the Supreme Court of the United States February 23, 1904 (193 
 U. S., 115), the amount of such judgment to be determined by subsequent 
 calculation when the number of freedmen should be finally ascertained. 
 Appropriation. was made in the sum of $606,936.08 to pay this judgment by the 
 act of June 25, 1910 (36 Stat., 774, 807). The services in this matter were 
 lendered under a contract executed and approved in conformity to sections 
 2103-2106 of the Revised Statutes. There is no serious contention thafthis fee 
 has not been earned, but it is asserted, on the part of the nations, that there 
 are counter claims which more than ofCset the amount of this fee. It is also 
 contended, on the part of the nations, that inquiry should be permitted as to 
 the validity of the alleged transfer by the firm to Mr. McMurray. 
 
 Another item in the claims against the nations is for $25,544.07, made up 
 of various sums said to have been expended during the period beginning in 
 October, 1902, and ending with December, 1904, by said firm in costs and ex- 
 penses in connection with litigation before the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship 
 court. Payment of, proper expenses is authorized by a paragraph in section 
 38 of the act approved July 1, 1902 (32 Stat., 641), reading as follows: 
 
 "AH expenses necessary to the proper conduct, on behalf of the nations, of 
 the suits and proceedings provided for in this and the two preceding sections 
 shall be incurred under the direction of the executives of the two nations, and 
 the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized, upon certificate of said 
 executives, to pay such expenses as in his judgment are reasonable and neces- 
 sary, out of any of the joint funds of said nations in the Treasury of the United 
 States." 
 
 Senator Page. They maintain a position that is opposed to yours. 
 They say they have to pay this out of funds of the Indians, do they 
 not? 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAY. That is the law that was passed at that time, 
 Senator. 
 
 Senator Page. Why is it not the law now? Why does it not 
 apply to your case? 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAT. This Congress has, in its wisdom, seen fit to and 
 did incorporate a provision in the appropriation bill that no funds 
 of the Indians shall be paid out without a specific appropriation. 
 They say they can not pay it. 
 
 Another item is for two Chickasaw warrants issued to Mansfield, McMurray & 
 Cornish for $5,589 and $5,000, respectively. 
 
 I am of opinion that a forum should be afforded for the consideration and ad- 
 judication of the matters involved in these claims, and that the nations 
 should be permitted to interpose all objections they may have to these claims 
 and all offsets and counterclaims. I am further of opinion that the Court of 
 Claims is a tribunal to which the matter may very appropriately be referred. 
 
 The nations have a claim against Jlr. ilcMurray. which is in the shape of 
 a judgment rendered February 14, 1913, for $14,238 for certain royalties ac- 
 cruing under coal leases from the nations to McMurray up to October 19, 1910. 
 There is also a further claim in this same matter for royalties accruing subse- 
 quently to October 19, 1910, which judgment and subsequent royalties with in- 
 terest, it is asserted, amount to more than the fee of $27,500. It is earnestly 
 contended, in behalf of the nations, that they shall be allowed to offset this 
 against any claim presented against them. 
 
 It is insisted, in behalf of the nations, that many unjust charges were in- 
 cluded by the attorneys in making up the amount of $25,544.07. 
 
 It is also insisted that the nations have just claim against said firm for 
 amounts heretofore improperly allowed, as for expenses in connection with 
 professional services. These amounts total about $180,000. It is contended 
 that any legislation enacted for submitting this controversy to a court or other 
 tribunal should provide expressly that the nations be allowed to offset the 
 amounts thus alleged to have been improperly paid against any claim presented 
 against them, and to present a counterclaim for any surplus that may thus ap- 
 pear improperly paid. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 747 
 
 I want to stop right on that proposition and say this, that we 
 began the work for the Choctaw and Chickasaw people in 1899 and 
 the expenses that were incurred from 1899 to 1907 were just such ex- 
 penses as are incurred now by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs 
 and the Secretary of the Interior, and that all of that was paid. 
 For instance, I will take one item, forty-four thousand and some odd 
 dollars. When we were engaged by the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 people to represent them in 1899, not one dollar of taxes had been 
 collected by those nations in the locality there for many years. Their 
 laws provided that they might collect certain taxes from the farmers 
 and merchants and the cattlemen; for instance, they were entitled 
 to 25 cents a head on all cattle that were introduced into the nation. 
 They were entitled to 1 per cent on all merchandise that was exposed 
 for sale; they were entitled to $5 per head for every farmer that 
 lived in the country and cultivated their land. We took the matter 
 up and after much thought and investigation we determined that 
 those taxes ought to be paid, although they had not been paid for 
 a good many years, and we so advised the nation. The Chickasaw 
 Nation had their council to appropriate $5,000 to pay the expenses 
 of this work. The expense of that work occurred like this : The only 
 remedy that the Choctaws and Chickasaws had if the taxes were not 
 paid was to roimd up the cattle that were on the public domain of 
 the country and drive them beyond the borders of their province, and 
 that had to be done under orders of the Secretary of the Interior, and 
 had to be done really by the Interior Department. While the In- 
 terior Department at that time had 24 of what is known as Indian 
 police in that country — those people were entitled to $2 a day and 
 their expenses — and the Secretary of the Interior provided that they 
 might devote themselves to this work, provided the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw people should pay the expenses of that work, $2 a day for 
 their fees, and the buggy hire and hotel bills and everything of that 
 kind that should be done at that time. 
 
 The Chickasaw Nation appropriated, as I say, $5,000 to pay these 
 expenses. That work was begun, and in moving cattle they had to 
 have wagons, teams, and cowboys, and all sort of paraphernalia that 
 was necessary to round up from the public domain and to put those 
 cattle beyond the limits of the tribes. That $5,000 was gone directly. 
 That we had nothing to do with. Gov. Johnston, who was then 
 governor of the Chickasaw Nation, came to McAlester and said that 
 this work ought not be stopped ; that something had to_ be done to 
 procure money, or they would have to stop. We were just then in 
 what is known as the citizenship fight there, and he and Gov. Mc- 
 Curtin and all of us felt that to stop that work at that time would 
 be a great setback for all the work that was being done for the tribe. 
 After much discussion, therefore, they asked me if I would go into 
 Texas and see if I could borrow the money to make the fight. The 
 legislature had adjourned and they had appropriated only the $5,000. 
 The nations then paid their own expenses. I went down to my old 
 home, Gainesville, and borrowed $50,000 to put into that fight. You 
 may say that was a foolish thing to do. It would be under the 
 present' conditions; but I knew those people. I knew they were 
 entitled to collect that money, and I did that. I went down there 
 and borrowed from the banks $50,000 to make this fight. It was 
 
748 IjStdian appeopeiation bill. 
 
 begun, and $43,000 of that money was spent before one dollar was 
 collected. There was not one cent collected up to the time the 
 $43,000 had been spent by those nations in enforcing this work under 
 the direction of the Secretary of the Interior. But by the time 
 $47,000 had been spent the nations not only had collected money 
 enough to pay the $47,000 back, but they had put $102,000 into their 
 treasury. In the course of two years after that the Secretary of the 
 Interior asked us to come — the auditor of the nation had been a 
 candidate for governor and had been defeated. He was the auditor 
 and was the candidate for governor. He sent all of his vouchers 
 showing there had been $47,000 of the money expended, and the 
 Secretary of the Interior sent for one of us to come and make reply. 
 I came. I brought more than a basketful of vouchers and papers 
 that had been made with reference to the expenditure of this money. 
 He appointed the three' men, including Mr. Jones, Commissioner of 
 Indian Aifairs, as a committee to audit these books, and we spent 
 three or four weeks auditing these statements. When that was done 
 the Secretary of the Interior congratulated me on being able to make 
 the statement that we had made and to satisfy him that this money 
 has been properly expended and wisely expended. So he found 
 that this money was a proper charge against the Choctaw and Chicka- 
 saw people, and shortly after that he had occasion to write a letter 
 in 1904 as follows 
 
 Senator Townsend (interrupting) . Can you not finish the report 
 of the Secretary? I am curious to know what is stated therein and 
 not to get it confused with the balance of your statement. 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAT (reading) : 
 
 It is contendecl by Mr. McMurray and by Mr. Cornish that these matters have 
 been finally and definitely settled and should not now be reopened. Suit was 
 begun against the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish in behalf of the 
 Ohoctaw Nation to recover some amounts alleged to have been thus improperly 
 paid. The amount involved there was $42,348.66. This suit was subsequently 
 dismissed September 8, 1909, without prejudice. No suit was ever begun 
 against the Chickasaw Nation. It is claimed, in behalf of the nations, that 
 not only were unauthorized expenses allowed, but that all these expenses were 
 Illegally incurred, in that the tribal law authorizing such expenditures was 
 never submitted to or approved by the President of the United States. The 
 firm strongly contends that these acts of the tribal councils were not of the 
 character required to be submitted to the President. 
 
 I have here the showing of the Secretary of the Interior and the 
 Department of Justice indicating that they all held with us, that 
 these were not such expenses as needed the approval. They contend, 
 so the Secretary says, that these were not such expenses as were con- 
 templated, because they did not come through Washington, but all 
 the departments said at the time they were not such expenses as came 
 through here. 
 
 In view of the fact that it is insisted by the tribal attorney that this matter 
 has not been so dealt with as to foreclose further consideration of the same, 
 and that it contains items which should never have been paid, this department 
 does not feel justified in passing upon the merits of the contentions of Messrs. 
 McMurray and Cornish, and therefore recommends that the court may consider 
 the question as to whether or not this matter should be opened up and the 
 items therein considered at least as an offset to the claim against the tribes. 
 Inasmuch, however, as McMurray and Cornish are so insistent that the previous 
 acts of this department and the Department of Justice were of snch a nature 
 that the questions involved are res judicata, or should not in fair dealing be 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 749 
 
 again inquired into, if the Congress upon investigation should so conclude thla 
 department will interpose no objection. 
 
 I am advised that probably the statute of limitations has run as to many of 
 the items going .to make up the claims of the respective parties, and it has been 
 suggested that it would work justice to all to authorize the court to consider 
 the matter without reference to such statute. 
 
 I am advised that Mr. McMurray has secured contracts from many indi- 
 viduals, members of said tribes, and possibly from the tribal authorities also, 
 for services to be rendered by him in connection with the disposal of the coal 
 and asphalt and other surplus property of the tribes, and that he has also pos- 
 sibly a claim for services rendered or to be rendered in connection with the 
 " leased-district " claim. He advises that he does not wish to bring those claims 
 into the present controversy. Possibly any item of legislation adopted should 
 make this clear. 
 
 This item is drawn up to 1907, at their suggestion, and precludes 
 all those matters, because they all came later. That is not involved in 
 this at all. 
 
 It is not to be understood that I express or have any opinion as to the merits 
 of these respective claims. As said before, however, I feel that some tribunal 
 should be afforded where they can be tried out and finally adjusted. 
 
 I am returning the draft of the proposed legislation which you submitted, 
 and, in explanation of the pencil marks appearing thereon, I am advised that 
 they were made by Mr. McMurray himself to express his acquiescence in vari- 
 ous suggestions made in behalf of the nations. I suggest that the introductory 
 part or preamble is not necessary and should be omitted ; also that any legisla- 
 tion to be enacted should not include the claims of the firm or Mr. McMurray 
 against the individual members of the tribes; also the judgment, if any shall 
 be rendered against the tribes, should be paid out of their funds as their in- 
 terests appear. 
 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 Son. RoBEBT L. Owen, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 Senator Owen. There are certain letters which he submits with it 
 which I think ought to go in the record. They are letters of the 
 governors of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. 
 
 2201 K Street, 
 Washington, D. C, January 25, 1915. 
 
 The honorable Commissioner of Indian Aitaies, 
 
 Washington, D. G. 
 
 Deae Sib : I am in receipt of your letter of January 23, 1915, wherein you 
 state that you are transmitting me therewith, for my consideration, a copy of 
 the proposed amendment to a bill pending, intended to authorize the firm of 
 Masfield, McMurray & Cornish, or their assigns, to institute suit in the Court 
 of Claims against the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations for the recovery of 
 certain moneys which Mr. John F. McMurray is attempting to collect. 
 
 In reply thereto, will state that I have no objection to the claim referred to, 
 
 between my nation and said firm, being submitted to the Court of Claims for 
 
 adjudication. 
 
 Very truly, yours, • ^ „ -r 
 
 ■^ D. H. Johnston, 
 
 Governor for the GhicTcasaic Nation. 
 
 The Portland, 
 Washington, D. C, January 29, 1915. 
 
 Hon. Cato Sells, 
 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. 
 Mt Deae Me. Sells : I have your letter of the 24th instant, with which you 
 refer to me a proposed bill prepared by Mr. John F. McMurray, and you ask to 
 be advised of the attitude of this office on the proposed legislation. 
 
760 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 I beg to advise you tliat I have referred this entire matter to Mr. P. J. Hurley, 
 national attorney for tbe Choctaw Nation, with instructions to investigate the 
 matter and report to you. As the question involved is a legal one, I will abide 
 by his recommendation upon this subject. 
 A'ery respectfully, 
 
 ViCTOB M. Locke, Jr., 
 Principal Chief Choctaw Nation. 
 
 Senator Page. Are not the Choctaws and Chickasaws represented 
 here in Washington by some attorney? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. Is he present? 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Bond is here. 
 
 Senator Page. Then let him read his side of the case. 
 
 Mr. McMtjeeat. In looking up this matter two or three years ago 
 I came across certain letters in the department that I did not know 
 existed, upon this very question. If the committee will be kind 
 enough to hear those letters I will read them.- 
 
 The Chairman. Who wrote the letters? 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAT. Here is a letter written by Mr. Tonner, March 25, 
 1904. 
 
 The Chaieman. What is the substance of it? 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAT. It was written to the Secretary of the Interior, 
 in which he refers to a report made by the Indian agent, Mr. ,Shoen- 
 felt, in Oklahoma, in which he takes up the question of the expendi- 
 ture of this $44,397.46, and states exactly how it is spent. It is im- 
 possible to have a proper understanding of his views unless the letter 
 is read. The letter is as follows: 
 
 Department or the Intebiok, 
 
 Office of Indian Affaieb, 
 Washington, March 25, 190^. 
 The honorable the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Sib: I have the honor to inclose herewith a report from Agent Shoenfelt, 
 dated March 16, 1904, in which he referred to departmental letter of March 
 10, 1904, to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and says that he has 
 been requested by a member of the House Committee on Indian Affairs to 
 make a statement with reference to the item' of $44,397.46 paid by the Chicka- 
 saw Nation by warrants drawn upon their treasury to Mansfield, McMurray & 
 Cornish, attorneys for the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. 
 
 He says that at the time said warrants were issued he was agent at the 
 Union Agency and fully understands the circumstances under which said war- 
 rants were issued, and that he deems it but fair to the parties concerned, as 
 well as to the Chickasaw Nation, that he make a statement pertaining thereto. 
 
 He refers to the bitter fight that was urged against the collection of tribal 
 taxes in the Chickasaw Nation and says that noncitizens residing therein re- 
 fused to pay taxes to the nation. The laws of the Chickasaw Nation provided^ 
 " that the expenses of collecting the taxes should be paid by the nation," 
 and that when parties refused to pay, the United, States Indian police, under 
 his orders as agent, were called upon to assist the nation in enforcing the inter- 
 course laws; that all noncitizens practically refused to pay the taxes levied 
 upon them ; that it became necessary to keep from 10 to 20 policemen in the 
 field constantly to assist the tribal authorities ; that most of the expense arose 
 over the collection of cattle tax ; that when a cattleman refused to pay the 
 tax due on his cattle he was reported by the governor to the agent, with 
 request that the cattle unlawfully grazing in the nation upon which the taxes 
 had not been paid be removed beyond the limits of the nation ; that this was 
 often done, and to do so required policemen to accompany the various outfits 
 equipped by the tribal authorities traveling over the nation with wagons, 
 horses, etc. ; that when a party refused to pay the tax, the cattle were rounded 
 up and driven out of the nation by the policemen; that the nation paid the 
 policemen $2 per day and expenses for this work ; that such expenses included 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 751 
 
 railroad fare, horse hire, hotel bills, etc., costing, in all, usually about $4 per 
 day for each policeman ; and that it is probable that the expenses of the tribal 
 authorities were no less. 
 
 He also says that when it was determined to collect the cattle tax and other 
 taies due the nation from noncitizens, he was advised by the governor of the 
 Chickasaw Nation that very little, if any, of the Chickasaw funds were avail- 
 able for that purpose and that he understands the funds necessary to enforce 
 the collection of said taxes were borrowed at the request of the governor and 
 guaranteed by the attorneys ; that the expenses were incurred directly under 
 the guidance :md direction of ex-Gov. Johnson; that certificates from time 
 to time were issued by the governor for such expense; that upon presen- 
 tation of the certificates the money was paid and warrants were drawn to 
 Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, as it is the custom for warrants to be issued 
 in the name of the person holding the certificates; that during the time ex- 
 Gov. Johnson was enforcing the collection of this tax a little over $100,000 
 was collected, and if the nation had not been able to borrow the money to 
 carry on the work of collection, which was done through the law firm of Mans- 
 field, McMurray & Cornish, the nation would not have been able to have col- 
 lected any of said taxes. 
 
 The duty of the collection of tribal taxes in the Chickasaw Nation, the agent 
 says, has been turned over to the Government at the request of the governor 
 and attorneys for that nation, and that the cattlemen heretofore resorted to 
 every possible device to evade the payment of said taxes; that suits were 
 brought in every court in which they could obtain jurisdiction ; and the attor- 
 neys of the nation were obliged to be continuously in the courts, defending the 
 nation in its rights, all of which was expensive. 
 
 The item referred to by the agent appears to be that mentioned in department 
 letter of March 10, 1904, which seems to have been the subject of a report of 
 the chief clerk of the office of the United States inspector, located in the Indian 
 Territory, of October 2, 1902. 
 
 It is suggested that a copy of Agent Shoenfelt's report be forwarded to the' 
 Speaker of the House of Representatives for his information and the informa- 
 tion of the House. 
 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 A. 0. ToNNEE, Acting Commissioner. 
 
 That goes to the merit of the items that have already been settled. 
 
 Senator Owen. What has that to do with this suit? 
 
 Mr. McMtjeray. It has nothing to do with it except those matters 
 have been handled here and have been suggested in -this letter to the 
 Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Owen. It seems to me that whatever argument is used 
 here should go to the justification of this suit. 
 
 Senator Geonna. It must necessarily have something to do v^ith 
 it, because the tribal attorneys claim they have offsets against 
 this because they illegally expended money. I do not know how a 
 lawyer would proceed, but as a business man I should wish to Imow 
 how they expended the money, whether legally or illegally. 
 
 Senator Owen. Certainly that is so. 
 
 Mr. McMuEKAY. These letters go to the fact to show that those 
 matters have all been settled by the department years ago. That is 
 
 why I am reading it. ^i •, • o 
 
 Senator Townsbnd. Do you propose to open those items again « 
 Mr. McMuEKAT. No, sir; but it is suggested here by one of the 
 
 attorneys that thpse matters are there. ,, -. . ., . ., 
 
 Senator Owen. And you are calling attention to the tact that the 
 
 department has passed on that and settled those matters, and they 
 
 ought not be brought up again? , j.j. ■, . 
 
 Mr McMuERAT. That is it, exactly; and I have a letter here from 
 
 the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Mr. Jones, in which he says 
 
752 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 those are matters that under the law the Indians had the right at 
 the time they were being expended, and that the department had 
 nothing to do with them; that they were bemg expended by the 
 Indians, and they ought to have a right to expend them, and do 
 have the right under the law to expend this fund. 
 
 Senator Page. Will you not read your proposed bill agam^ I 
 should like to see if I can focus my mind on this argument and see 
 how it applies to this item. 
 
 (The amendment proposed by Mr. McMurray was read agam.) 
 Senator Townsend. Have you any objection to this being sent to 
 the Court of Claims and having the statute of limitations barred 
 and this whole matter gone into, not only to find an offset to set off 
 your claim, but any balance that may be found against you; for 
 instance, shall be held as a valid claim against you? Are you willing 
 to go into the whole business and allow these matters to be deter- 
 mined by the Court of Claims? 
 
 Mr. McMtjeeat. Senator, I have no objection at all to any matters 
 that they have against me being taken up and thrashed out there. 
 I court that. But this firm has been dissolved seven or eight years 
 and this very matter was thrashed out by the Department of Justice, 
 taking a year and a half, and they had two Attorneys General and 
 they there made a report on these very items, and they held that 
 this money was not only properly spent but that it was well and 
 wisely spent, and that has been finally and for all time settled and 
 determined. Another thing, they had the reports of the attorney 
 for the Government in the Indian Territory. 
 
 They had the report of the Attorney General. They had the re- 
 port of an expert, who went down there and made an investigation 
 of every item that he could find, and he never found a penny that 
 they objected to being paid. Not only that, but Mr. Northrop, a 
 distinguished lawyer, was asked by the President to make a special 
 report on this, and when he got through he suggested that perhaps 
 there was a civil suit that would adjust these matters. The Govern- 
 ment therefore filed a civil suit against Mansfield, McMurray & 
 Cornish for forty-odd thousand dollars. Those matters were 
 thrashed out at the suggestion of the Department of Justice, and we 
 turned over everything we had to them, books, letters, papers, checks, 
 and everything we had, and after thoroughly investigating it they 
 had that suit dismissed, holding that those funds were under the 
 direction of the governors, and that they had been properly expended. 
 Therefore I now say this, that our firm has been dissolved years ago, 
 seven or eight years ago. And as to these matters that had been 
 finally settled I say that we ought not to be put to the expense and 
 trouble of going back and going into them again. As to any mat- 
 ters that they have against me, I would be perfectly glad and willing 
 that they should bring them here and charge them against whatever 
 they owe me, but as to these matters that have_been held by the De- 
 partment of the Interior to be matters that the "Indians were expend- 
 ing, all they are claiming is that they were expended contrary to law, 
 inasmuch as they did not pass through Washington. 
 
 Here is the Department of Justice holding that they were prop- 
 erly expended. Here is the Department of the Interior, and here is 
 the Commissioner of Indian Affairs taking these exact items and 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 753 
 
 holding that they were properly expended, and that they were wisely 
 and well expended, and now to go back where these matters have been 
 settled seven or eight years ago and put us to the trouble and ex- 
 pense I do not feel would be just. Mr. Mansfield lives in Oregon. 
 He was a member of this firm. He moved away and lives in Oregon, 
 and has for four or five years, and to bring him back and ask him 
 to defend these items again after they had been gone over and over 
 again, I think would be a great injustice to him and to the other 
 member of the firm, Mr. Cornish, as well as to myself. That is my 
 idea of it. Senator. 
 
 Here is a letter on these very items that are included in this. This 
 is a letter from the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, dated December 
 29, 1903, in which he takes these accounts of Mansfield, McMurray & 
 Cornish, and, after discussing them, he says : 
 
 In the absence of explanation by the inspector, and talking tlie titles of the 
 acts, coupled with my belief in the good faith of the authorities of the Nation 
 and the attorneys as well, I am led to presume that these expenses were in- 
 curred under the general employment of Messrs. Mansfield, McMurray & Cor- 
 nish as attorneys for the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, which contract was 
 approved by the department. 
 
 The Atoka agreement, which is a part of the Curtis Act (30 Stats., 495), pro- 
 vides : " That no act, ordinance, or resolution of the council of either the 
 Choctaw or Chickasaw Tribes, in any manner affecting the land of the tribe, 
 or of individuals after allotment, or the moneys or other property of the tribe, 
 or citizens thereof (except appropriations for regular and necessary expenses 
 of the government of the respective tribes) * * * shall be of any validity 
 until approved by the President of the United States." 
 
 That is what the Commissioner of Indian Affairs says. The Sec- 
 retary of the Interior, after discussing these matters and acknowl- 
 edging the letter, says this : 
 
 It is the opinion of the department that the proper construction of said pro- 
 vision is that the regular appropriations for the support of the tribal govern- 
 ments under the tribal laws need not receive the approval of the President, but 
 that all acts of the tribal legislatures appropriating money for extraordinary 
 expenses or other expenses not provided for by existing tribal law must receive 
 the approval of the President in order to give them validity. 
 
 The papers transmitted with your said reports of December 28 and December 
 2f» are herewith returned, together with the report of the acting inspector, dated 
 October 4, 1902, and a copy of the report of the chief clerk of the inspector's 
 office, dated October 4, 1902; also copy of letter of the auditor of public accounts, 
 addressed to the Secretary, dated September 5, 1902, and copy of statement of 
 the expense account of Messrs. Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish. 
 
 I brought, at their suggestion, to the Department of Justice a 
 bushel of telegrams, letters, and papers, and orders from the Depart- 
 ment of the Interior, from the Secretary down, asking us to do the 
 very thing that we did under which these moneys were expended. 
 These moneys were not only expended at the direction of the gov- 
 ernors of the tribes, but they were expended at the direction of the 
 Secretary of the Interior and the officers under him. The Secretary 
 of the Interior ordered work to be done that took at least one-third 
 of this $180,000 which was settled seven or eight years ago. They 
 never paid up anything, not one penny. They left the matter for the 
 nations to pay, and they did pay those expenses. Now, to go back 
 after they have been settled for seven or eight years, would make it 
 appear that there never will be a settlement, if those matters are not 
 yet settled. 
 
 «283.'?— VOL 1 — lu 4!^ 
 
754 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 I should like, if I had the time, to take the report that Attorney 
 General Moody made; that Attorney General Bonaparte made; that 
 Attorney General Wickersham made, and read them, but it wouia 
 tax the patience of this committee to do so. But, m a word, they 
 held that these were matters that were expended under direction 
 of the tribes; that the tribes had a right to expend this money; that 
 it was their duty to expend it, and they held that those moneys were 
 not only expended, but that they were wisely and well expended. I 
 say, therefore, that for us to go back and thrash all of that out again 
 is a matter that would not be just to me and would not be ]ust to the 
 members of this firm who have gone, and have been gone for seven 
 or eight years, and no longer have any connection with this work. 
 
 In discussing this matter one of the tribal attorneys said frankly 
 that now, so far as these old matters of the tribes are concerned, " We 
 do not claim that you owe anything." Both of the governors of the 
 tribes have told me that they do not think I ought to be called on to 
 thrash out these old matters that are paid out. 
 Senator Owen. Who told you that? 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAY. Gov. Johnston and Gov. Locke both told me that. 
 T do not know whether they are here now or not, but they both said 
 that to me, and they, I believe, said it to other people. I do not 
 Imow but they said it to the Secretary of the Interior, but anyway 
 they said it to me, and I think they would say so before this com- 
 mittee, that they do not claim that this firm owes the Choctaw and 
 Chicasaw Nations anything, but they do claim that I do owe them 
 something. It was therefore suggested that this item be drawn in 
 such a way as to reach anything I owe them and have deducted what- 
 ever they owe me, if they owe me anything. 
 
 Here is what I say, in a word : That here is a contention that ought 
 to be adjusted. They have come in and sued me for $14,000 and ob- 
 tained this judgment. I have matters that ought to be oifset against 
 that. Here is an accounting that this committee can not have. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Did you offer to offset it at the time of the 
 other suit? 
 
 Mr. McMuRRAY. No; I could not get in with it. Senator. It 
 would be like suing them. This was a matter of J. F. McMurray, 
 and I could not offset it, and there was no use of my suggesting it to 
 the court, for I knew it could not be done. These are matters grow- 
 ing out of the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, and for me 
 to come in and suggest that I offset this would have been folly; I 
 could not have done it. There was not any possibility that I could 
 do it. As a lawyer you understand that. But it ought to be done. 
 This suit ought to be brought, as contemplated in this item, and I 
 should be very glad if it should be done. 
 
 The Chairman. Does the gentleman, Mr. Bond, who represents 
 the nation, wish to be heard ? 
 
 STATEMENT OF ME. REFORD BOND, NATIONAL ATTORNEY 
 CHICKASAW NATION. 
 
 Mr. Bond. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I had no knowledge of 
 this hearing and have no records with me. If Mr. McMurray has 
 the letters written by the attorneys for the tribes I would like to 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 755 
 
 read those to the committee. I will read first the letter written by 
 myself, as attorney for the Chickasaw Tribe : 
 
 Washington, D. C, January 25, 1915. 
 The honorable Commissioner of Indian Atfaibs, 
 
 Washington, D. 0. 
 
 My Dear JIr. Sells : I am in receipt of your letter of January 23, wherein 
 you state you are transmitting for my consideration a copy of a proposed amend- 
 ment to a pending bill intended to authorize the firm of Mansfield, McMurray 
 & Cornish, or their assigns, to institute suit in the Court of Claims against the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations for the recovery of certain moneys which Mr. 
 John F. McMurray is attempting to collect. 
 
 Tou further state that you are not advised as to what authority exists for 
 Mr. McMurray's statement concerning the attitude of the tribal authorities, and 
 as there is nothing of record in this office showing that the proposed bill is 
 acceptable to them, I have to request that you, as attorney for the Chickasaw 
 Nation, will advise me whether, from a legal standpoint, the enactment of the 
 proposed legislation will be advisable — ■ 
 
 By way of explanation I would like to state that I was not attor- 
 ney for the Chickasaw Tribe of Indians at the time the services 
 were rendered and the counterclaims and set-offs that the nation 
 intended to interpose arose, and I am not familiar with those matters 
 because I have not been furnished with the records to date. 
 
 In my private practice I have ever considered it my duty to prevent, if 
 possible, the institution of suits against my clients. The right of individuals 
 to bring and defend actions against one another is fixed and secure under the 
 law, and the same may be said as to corporations. This right does not exist as 
 to the Indian tribes. Therefore I am of the opinion that if said firm has a 
 legal bona fide claim against the Choctaw Indians it should be adjudicated and 
 finally determined by a proper tribunal. And, on the other hand, if the Choctaw 
 and Chickasaw Nations have a legal and bona fide claim, counterclaim, or 
 set-ofC against said firm, same should be pleaded and adjudicated. 
 
 I was not attorney for the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations when the contro- 
 versy between said firm and said nations was heard and considered by the 
 department. I am not informed as to its merits or demerits. I have no knowl- 
 edge, save hearsay, of the justice of any claim, counterclaim, or set-off, and 
 therefore I am unable to make an intelligent' recommendation at this time as 
 to whether or not the controversy in question should be referred to the Court 
 of Claims. 
 
 If the department will furnish me with the case made — the records, the find- 
 ings of law and fact as shown by the hearing — for my examination and con- 
 sideration, I will make a full investigation and report further. 
 
 At this time I will report on the copy of the proposed amendment transmitted 
 by you. 
 
 It has many objectionable features. I would treat as redundant and reject 
 as surplusage lines 1 to 15, inclusive. I would strike from line 19 the words 
 "or the members thereof," for the reason that said firm has authority to insti- 
 tute action against members of said tribes without authority of Congress. 
 
 I would strike from line 20 the words " or of their assigns," for the reason 
 that the assignees of the claim may establish the fact that they were bona fide 
 purchasers for value; that they had no knowledge of existing counterclaim or 
 set-offs, and thereby prevent the nations from establishing such counterclaims 
 and set-offs as they may have against said firm. 
 
 I would strike from lines 28 and 29 the words " nation or nations," for the 
 reason that if a judgment should be recovered, same should be a joint judgment 
 and should be paid from the funds of the tribes in proportion to their population. 
 
 I further suggest that if the nations have a claim against said firm substan- 
 tially in excess of any claim that said firm may establish, and if there is a 
 probability of a recovery by the nations, that said firm be required to execute 
 a good and sufficient surety bond to abide by the judgment of said court or 
 the Supreme Court of the United States If said cause be appealed to said 
 tribunal. 
 
 From the knowledge I have of the controversy, I suggest an item, or a pro- 
 posed amendment if you desire to so call it, as follows : 
 
756 INDIAI^ APPBOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 " Jurisdiction is hereby conferred upon the Court of Claims, and said court 
 is hereby authorized and directed to hear and adjudicate all legal clairus exist- 
 ing between the law firm of Mansfield, McJXurray & Cornish and the Choctaw 
 and Chickasaw Nations, and to render such judgment as the law and the facts 
 warrant. The judgment, if any, against said nations shall be paid by the Treas- 
 urer of the United States out of any funds of said nations, and accordmg to 
 the proper ratio, considering the population thereof. The judgment, if any, 
 against said Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish shall be paid by said firm or its 
 bondsmen ; and to secure the payment of such judgment, if any, said firm shall, 
 prior to the trial of said suit, execute a good and sufficient surety company 
 bond to abide the judgment of said court, or the appellant court if an appeal be 
 taken. 
 
 " Notice of the filing of such suit shall be served upon the principal chief of 
 the Choctaw Nation and the governor of the Chickasaw Nation, and said nations 
 shall be represented therein by the attorneys for said nations, respectively, and 
 by the Attorney General of the United States. 
 
 "Hither party aggrieved with the judgment shall have the right to appeal 
 from same to the Supreme Court of the United States within six months after 
 the date of the rendition thereof." 
 
 If I had a more full and complete knowledge of the difCerences existing be- 
 tween said firm and said nations, I might add to said item the words " all 
 equitable and legal claims," but, at this time, I am of the opinion that the con- 
 troversy should be confined to legal claims. 
 
 If my information was full and complete, I might strike from the above-sug- 
 gested item the words " the requirement as to a good and sufficient surety com- 
 pany bond," but, at this time I am of the opinion that the nations should be 
 protected in such judgment as they might obtain, if any. 
 
 I have no knowledge of the date on which any of the claims involved arose or 
 were contracted. It may be that they are barred by the statute of limitations. 
 If any claims existing on the part of the United States are barred by the statute 
 of limitatioiis, the item should be so drawn as to take such claims out of the 
 statute of limitations in order that they may be properly pleaded by the nations 
 and considered by the court. 
 Tours, very truly, 
 
 Reford Bond, 
 National Attorney ChiGkasaw Nation. 
 
 I will state to the committee that Mr. Hurley, who represents the 
 Choctaw Nation, has been through this matter with the department 
 and should be familiar with the facts and the records of the case. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Hurley wrote a letter on this 
 subject, and I think it ought to be read to the committee. 
 
 Mr. Bond. I was just on the point of reading it. It is as fol- 
 lows 
 
 Senator Page. Who is this letter from? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Mr. Hurley, the attorney for the Choctaw Nation. I 
 understand he went into the matter thoroughly with the department 
 and that they had hearings and made a record of them — 
 
 Washington, D. C, January 28, 1915. 
 Hon. Cato Sells, 
 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Washington, D. G. 
 
 My Deae Mk. Sells : I have your letter of the 23d instant, with which you 
 transmit a copy of a proposed bill drafted by Mr. John F. McMurray, which is 
 intended to give him authority to sue the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations in 
 the Court of Claims for certain moneys claimed bj- Mr. McMurray to be due 
 him, and to the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, for services rendered 
 and expenses incurred on behalf of said nations. 
 
 Before you transmitted to me the proposed bill, I had gone over the 
 same with Mr. JIcMurray and advised him that as attorney for the Choctaw 
 Nation I could not agree to the enactment of the bill in the form submitted 
 by him. 
 
 I have stated on several occasions that every man who has a just claim 
 against the Choctaw Nation should be given his day in court, if the claim can 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 757 
 
 Btrnel t^mllu tlftl^'"'- ,^"* ^ ^'^ '''" '''^^''^ ^°^ ^^'^ statement to be con- 
 sults to be filed a^ainlir^^K'^PM^ ^'^^ ^'^'^ P™'"^'^ legislation authorizing 
 
 Since rLeivin^ vnnv i^f ^t'I™ ^^''^ ^ ^°^ employed to defend, 
 tainki? to cTnim! ^ ^®"I'' ^ ''^^^ '^^'l® »■! examination of certain laws per- 
 DroDofed Inw ?^ nf '''''^' *^^ Choctaw Nation to ascertain whether or not the 
 Krnment on behalf ^]7h/ph'^" ^■^^"t'Jtion of a suit by the United States 
 referred tn ^hl i^ ^% Choctaw Nation for the settlement of the questions 
 
 to sue on behalf Of ?hp'^h'r ^i^^^ ^^^ United States Government authorUy 
 firm V attorneys cp.tt-^^"^*'''^.^''^*^^*^'^^^'^^ Nations to recover from the 
 buSements of ?m1^ fi. amounts " in reimbursement of expenses and dis- 
 ttem for saw nat^ns™ ''' '^°»°^<^tion with professional services rendered by 
 
 & rnr.fr^n^'^ ''"^ ^Y''''''' P^^ides that the Arm of Mansfield, McMurray 
 
 and ask for nd'^nr,?!?-''"' °! '^f ^^"'' °^" *^^"- ^^^'S'^^' "^^^ ^'^ countercLfms 
 ana ask toi adjudication of all claims of said firm, or any member of the 
 firm, or their assigns, "for all professional services rendeLd^TOises to! 
 curred, and disbursements made, with interest from date of such services or 
 payments on all amounts found due to either party at rates prevaning at 
 time and place of the transaction involved " ^ -^ >- ^'^'•«'' prevailing at 
 
 ww,!^'^^°°^®'^"?? ^cf''" attention to section 18 of the act of April 26, 1906 
 i^.l ^^*^°"^«^!^e Secretary of the Interior to bring suit on behalf of any 
 of the Five Civilized Tribes before, or after, the dilsolution of the tribal 
 governments for the settlement of questions such as are involved in the matter 
 under consideration. Most specifically do I call attention to that part of the 
 section and act referred to which reads as follows : 
 
 " Where suit is now pending, or may hereafter be filed in any United States 
 court in the Indian Territory, by or on behalf of any one or more of the 
 Five Civilized Tribes to recover moneys claimed to be due and owing to such 
 tribe, the party defendants to such suit shall have the right to set up and 
 have adjudicated any claim it may have against such tribe, and any balance 
 that may be found due by any tribe or tribes shall be paid by the Treasurer of 
 the United States out of any funds of such tribe or tribes upon the filing of 
 the decree of the court with him." 
 
 All claims on which Jlr. McMurray now seeks recovery were pending at the 
 time this law was enacted, and under this provision suits were actually in- 
 stituted against the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish for the recovery 
 of large amounts of money claimed to be due from said firm to the Choctaw 
 and Chickasaw Nations. The claims on which suits were thus instituted on 
 behalf of the nations against the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish 
 amounted in all to $182,800. 
 
 Mr. McMurray, his associates, or assigns did not set up their claims against 
 the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations in said suits, as they were authorized 
 under the law to do, but did seek and, after numerous investigations and contro- 
 versies, did procure the dismissal of said civil suits. It may not be improper 
 to say that the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish have had their day in 
 court on the controversy that the proposed law seeks to submit to the Court 
 of Claims. 
 
 The proposed bill is objectionable for the further reason that it gives right to 
 the assignees of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish to sue for the recovery of 
 certain amounts claimed to be due. The firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish 
 is said to have rendered services under a certain contract with the Choc- 
 taw and Chickasaw Nations in the so-called Freedman case, for which said 
 firm was to receive the sum of $27,500 as compensation for the services ren- 
 dered. I have not the entire record before me, but am advised that the con- 
 tract referred to was executed and approved under the provisions of section 
 2103 to 2106 of the Revised Statutes. Section 2106 of the Revised Statutes 
 provides as follows : 
 
 " No assignment of any contracts embraced by section 2103 or any part of 
 one shall be valid unless the names of the assignees and their residences and 
 occupations be entered in writing upon the contract and the consent of the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs to such assign- 
 ments be also Indorsed thereon." 
 
 It does not appear that any assignments of the nature required by law 
 have been made. For that reason the assigns of the firm of Mansfield, Mc- 
 Murray & Cornish, or of either of them, would have no right to sue on the 
 contract. 
 
758 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 In addition to this I call your attention to the fact that Mr. McMurray Is 
 Indebted to the Choctaw Nation in a sum exceeding $27,500 for royalty on 
 coal leases; that a judgment was procured against him in the United btates 
 court for the eastern district of Oklahoma for a sum exceeding $14,000 for 
 royalty due from Mr. McMurray to the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations on 
 coal leases. Notwithstanding the fact that said judgment was returned two 
 years ago, the district attorney for the eastern district of Oklahoma has been 
 unable up to this time to collect the amount from Mr. McMurray. In the face 
 of this condition it would be futile for the Choctaw Nation to go to the ex- 
 pense of seeking to obtain another judgment against Mr. McMurray when the 
 judgment which has been returned remains unsatisfied. 
 
 In regard to Mr. McMurray's alleged claim for expenses incurred in con- 
 nection with the Choctaw and Chickasaw citizenship court, I call attention to 
 that portion of section 33 of the supplemental agreement between the United 
 States and the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations approved' July 1, 1902 : 
 
 "All expenses necessary to the proper conduct on behalf of the nations, or the 
 suits and proceedings provided for in this and the two preceding sections shall 
 be incurred under the direction of the executives of the two nations, and the 
 Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized, upon certificate of said execu- 
 tives, to pay such expenses as in his judgment are reasonable and necessary 
 out of any of the joint funds of said nations in the Treasury of the United 
 States." 
 
 I am ad\ised that the account for expenses which Mr. McMurray now seeks 
 to recover, was presented to the Secretary of the Interior — at least in part — 
 during the year 1903. The accounts were returned by the Secretary of the 
 Interior to Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, with a request for additional in- 
 formation as to the validity of the claims. The accounts were not submitted 
 to the Secretary of the Interior for more than six years thereafter and with- 
 out the additional information which was required in the first place. There 
 appears to be no more evidence of the validity of these claims at this time 
 than there was 12 years ago when the claims were denied by the Secretary of 
 the Interior. I know of no authority under which claims of this nature could 
 be assigned, but I am sure that I would most strenuously object to the enact- 
 ment of a law that would waive any of the rights of the Choctaw Nation, or 
 any of the limitations against Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, and would 
 permit their assigns who hold the claims to now sue the Choctaw and Chicka- 
 saw Nations. 
 
 The law proposed by Mr. McMurray is too broad in its terms for the settle- 
 ment of the controversy it is intended to settle. The firm of Mansfield, McMur- 
 ray & Cornish have no claim against the Choctaw Nation that I consider of any 
 validity whatever, with the possible exception of a claim for $27,500 for fees 
 in- the so-called Freedman case. Mr. McMiirray is Indebted to the nations for 
 royalty on coal leases, which he holds, in an amount large enough to com- 
 pletely offset this claim and all interest that might be due thereon. 
 
 Under the provisions of this law, if enacted, all controversies regarding all 
 payments of tribal funds, and all the collections made, and all claims for 
 services rendered," and expenses incurred by the firm of Mansfield, McMurray 
 & Cornish could be reopened and resubmitted for reconsideration. 
 
 I have no fear of the outcome of the litigation, but it would be exceedingly 
 expensive litigation to the Indian tribes, as the evidence for the nations, in such 
 an action, would not be easy to procure on account of the many changes that 
 have occurred in the Government offices during the long period of years covered 
 by these transactions. 
 
 In view of all the circumstances I find myself unable to agree to the enact- 
 ment of the proposed bill. 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 P. J. HUELEY. 
 
 Mr. Chairman, the department to this hour has not furnished me 
 with the record in this particular matter nor with the evidence taken 
 at any of the hearings, and therefore I am unable to state at this 
 time whether these are legitimate, bona fide claims or not. Under- 
 stand me, I do not believe in an attorney getting his client into liti- 
 gation. I do not believe that is part of his duty, but I do believe 
 that if anyone has a legitimate, bona-fide claim against my nation 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 759 
 
 it should be adjudicated, and for that reason, if the department 
 should determine that there are claims existing between the firm and 
 the nation that are bona fide and legitimate, I would be willing to 
 adjudicate them in a tribunal of competent jurisdiction. But I do 
 not think it should be for the attorney for the nation to determine 
 whether or not they are legitimate and bona fide. I think the de- 
 partment should determine those matters, and not the attorney, 
 because I do not believe any attorney should recommend a suit 
 against his client. 
 
 I have not had an opportunity to examine the proposed item. I 
 have simply heard it read, but I find that the proposed item is objec- 
 tionable for certain reasons. First, it permits the assigns of Mr. 
 McMurray to be made parties to the action. It permits him to sue 
 for his assigns. As stated before, the assigns might be innocent pur- 
 chasers for value, and in that event any set-oii that the nation might 
 have against Mr. McMurray in the way of a judgment for royalty 
 on coal, or other matters, could not be pleaded as against his assigns, 
 who purchased without notice of such judgment and without notice 
 of any other counterclaims or set-offs or equities that might be set 
 up against Mr. McMurray, and I am not fully prepared to say. 
 whether or not the statute of limitations should be waived. 
 
 It might be that the nation has claims that are barred by the 
 statute of limitations that could be set up in an action of this kind. 
 Before expressing myself with reference to the matter fully I should 
 like an opportunity to examine the claims that the nation might 
 set up. 
 
 The attorney for the Choctaw Nation refers to a number of claims 
 there that I have not had an opportunity to examine, but if they are 
 bona fide claims, if they are legitimate, if they are barred by the 
 statute of limitations, then this item should waive the statute in order 
 that the tribes' interests might be protected. 
 
 I thank you. gentlemen. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, this is my impression about this 
 matter : We have been sitting here for weeks considering this bill. 
 This is matter that should have been taken up long ago and thor- 
 oughly thrashed out. Realizing the difficulty of getting legislation 
 enacted by both Houses of Congress, I am rather liberally inclined 
 to put legislation upon the Indian appropriation bill where it can 
 be thoroughly considered and where there is no question as to the 
 propriety of the legislation itself. But, for one, I do not feel dis- 
 posed at this late hour to vote to incorporate legislation of this kind 
 
 in the Indian bill. . , , j, ^, -4.4. o 
 
 The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee ( 
 Mr McMuRKAT. If you will permit me, I would like to say that 
 I came here six weeks ago and asked the department to attend to this 
 matter, and they suggested that the only thing they could do was to 
 refer it to the court. I have been waiting here since for their report, 
 and it came only last Saturday. So this is not my fault. I have been 
 
 ^"^ Smator^CLlpp.^But, Mr. McMurray, if you had brought the mat- 
 ter to the committee three months ago the committee would have 
 secured this report in some way, and then it could have been thor- 
 oughly considered. I am very much impressed with the suggestion 
 
760 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 that it is a terrific hardship for a man to be sued, and at the same 
 time for what appears on the surface at least, to be a valid counter- 
 claim and yet unable to complete it or even bring suit upon it. This 
 is a rather extensive matter and it is more or less complicated. For 
 one, I do not believe in putting a matter of this kind on the Indian 
 bill until we have had time to thoroughly consider it. As I have 
 stated, I am very liberal and always have been toward putting proper 
 legislation in the bill, recognizing the difficulty of securing legisla- 
 tion in any other way. 
 
 Mr. McMuREAT. Mr. Chairman, with respect to the suggestion 
 about coming to the committee, permit mo to say that Senator Owen, 
 who is a member of this committee, addressed a letter five weeks ago 
 to the department, and I supposed a response would be forthcoming 
 with all due haste, and yet it came only last Saturday. That was the 
 first opportunity I had to bring anything here. As soon as I re- 
 ceived it I brought it. 
 
 It is a great hardship to me, and it occurred to me that the matter 
 would be in safe hands in the Court of Claims, and that that court 
 could thrash all these matters out. The Interior Department has 
 gone into the matter fully and completely, and they are the people 
 to make the investigation. They say without equivocation that this 
 matter ought to be referred to the Court of Claims; without any 
 hesitation they say so, and without any qualification they say it 
 should be referred to that court ; and it does seem to me that it could 
 be referred there and be considered and justice be done to all parties 
 concerned.' 
 
 It is a great hardship on me to carry this judgment and to be 
 sitting here with a contract that has complied with all conditions, 
 has been through the court and all expenses paid. There are mem- 
 bers of this committee who will remember how vigorously the de- 
 partment insisted that this litigation be not instituted, and I insisted 
 that it ought to be instituted because there was an opportunity to 
 win; brought suit for $606,000 and recovered judgment for that 
 amoimt; I went before the committee and the money was appropri- 
 ated, and here it stands. They have the money, $606,000, and I am 
 sitting here with the contract after having conducted all that work 
 and paid the expenses, and I can make no move in it. It is a hard- 
 ship that I do not feel should be visited upon me. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I would be willing, for one, to have you go to the 
 Court of Claims upon that contract, with an amendment so drawn 
 that it would not foreclose any of the rights of the Indians with 
 reference to anything else, so that you could offset that contract. 
 That appears to be a very clear-cut, specific proposition. But when 
 we go beyond that I think we should take the time to understand 
 just what we are doing. That is my view. 
 
 Mr. McMuEEAT. Senator, would it be a wise thing to appoint a sub- 
 committee to cooperate with me in drafting an item that would ac- 
 complish the result? Would it be a wise course to appoint a com- 
 mittee of, say, three of your own body who would cooperate with me 
 and with the attornej^s for the tribes in drafting a provision that 
 would meet the conditions ? The Interior Department says it ought 
 to be done. They have considered the subject at great length. I 
 would like to ask that that be done, if you think it wise — that a sub- 
 committee be appointed for that purpose. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIAXION BILL. 761 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. MclMurray, is it not perfectly evident to you 
 that the chances are several to one that another committee than the 
 one now sitting here will have to pass upon this measure? AVe are 
 not going to accomplish this legislation probably at this session ; we 
 shall have a special session. When that session comes we can take it 
 up with a subcommittee of three, but for us to sit here and consider 
 this with the chances several to one. that it would not be acted upon 
 at this session of Congress, seems to me to be unwise. 
 
 The Chairman. Why do you say, Senator Page, that this bill will 
 not pass at this session ? 
 
 Senator Page. I shall not indulge in an argument with the Chair- 
 naan upon that proposition. It looks as though the ship purchase 
 bill would occupy the attention of the Senate until the 4th of March 
 noon. 
 
 The Chairman. That will be passed promptly. 
 
 Mr. MclNIuRRAT. I want to say that it is not convenient to me to 
 come here and remain in Washington. I said to Senator Owen 
 when he sent his letter to the department that I hoped there would 
 be a very prompt report as I was extremely busy at my home. I am 
 very busy and this is an expensive matter to me as I have many 
 other things to attend to. 
 
 Senator Page. As to the merits of your proposition, I am not 
 making any question. My point was that we are sitting here when, 
 as it seems to me, there is no great probability that we will have an 
 opportunity of passing upon any of these matters that ought to be 
 acted upon during this session of Congress. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Mr. Chairman, I have been very much im- 
 pressed with the statements of both of these attorneys, as well as 
 the statement of the Secretary of the Interior, with respect to this 
 proposition. It is a matter that ought to be adjusted in some way. 
 This man ought to have a day in court, and if he has any rights he 
 ought to be given an opportunity to establish them. 
 
 Senator Clapp. There is no question about that. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I have no objection to a committee being ap- 
 pointed, of which I shall not be a member, to draft a provision and 
 have it go on the bill, whereby this subject may be presented to the 
 Court of Claims. I think the attorneys have suggested some points 
 here that ought to be considered and I think a subcommittee should 
 consider them and draft the proper provision. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I suggest that Mr. Bond and Mr. McMurray 
 both appear before the subcommittee. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Yes. I think something could be evolved that 
 would be satisfactory to the attorneys as well as to all concerned. 
 There should be an end to this matter some time. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the matter be re- 
 ferred to a subcommittee, and if that subcommittee can thoroughly 
 satisfy themselves before the bill is reached for consideration they 
 will make the proper report. I suggest that the matter be referred 
 to a subcommittee. 
 
 The Chairman. Of how many ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I suggest three. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to, and the Chair appointed as such sub- 
 committee Senators Thompson, Clapp, and Fall.) 
 
762 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 SALE OF TIMBER ON SCHOOL AND SWAMP LANDS, BAD RIVER AND LAC DE 
 ELAMBEAU (wiS.) INDIAN RESERVATIONS. 
 
 The Chairman. I have just received the following communication 
 from the department, signed by A. A. Jones, First Assistant Secre- 
 tary: 
 
 Department op the Interior, 
 Washington, February 15, 1915. 
 
 Mt Dear Senator : Within the boundaries of the Bad Kiver Indian Reserva- 
 tion, in Wisconsin, are six sections 16 and about 25,000 acres of swamp land to 
 which the State of Wisconsin has asserted title. The school lands are claimed 
 under the act of August 6, 1846 (9 Stat. L., 856), enabling the Territory of Wis- 
 -consin to become a State, and the swamp lands are claimed under the act of 
 September 28, 1850 (9 Stat. L., 519), granting certain overflowed and swamp 
 lands to various States. 
 
 Within the Lac du Flambeau Indian Reservation there are three sections 16 
 and about 40,000 acres of swamp land claimed under the same act. 
 
 Dead timber has been cut from both the so-called " school lands " and " swamp 
 lands" on the Bad River Reservation under an arrangement with the State 
 ■ot Wisconsin or with its grantee, under which the proceeds derived from the 
 timber cut on each legal subdivision has been deposited to the credit of such 
 subdivision in a national bank bonded for the safe-keeping of " individual 
 Indian moneys." This cutting has been done under authority of the act of 
 February 16, 1889 (25 Stat. L., 673). 
 
 No act of Congress has ever specifically authorized the cutting of green timber 
 from tribal lands within either of these reservations. Section 23 of the Indian 
 appropriation act, approved August 1, 1914, provided for the allotment of un- 
 allotted lands within the Bad River Reservation and the sale of the timber 
 from such allotments. It is the view of the department that said section 23 
 does not authorize the allotment of the so-called " school lands " and " swamp 
 lands" within the Bad River Reservation which are claimed by the State of 
 Wisconsin until the question of the title to these lands is definitely determined 
 by the courts adversely to the State of Wisconsin. Accordingly the department 
 does not feel that the green timber on such lands can be sold without further 
 authority from Congress. 
 
 On a large part of the swamp lands within the reservation there is probably 
 little merchantable timber, but on some of these lands there are valuable stands 
 of merchantable timber. All of the sections 16 contain valuable timber and some 
 of them very heavy stands. Nearly all of the timber on allotments heretofore 
 made within the Bad River Reservation has been cut. The timber on sections 
 16 and on certain "swamp lands" stands by itself, exposed to fire and wind, 
 and large annual losses are unavoidable under such circumstances. Further- 
 more, a large portion of this timber is situated within reach of railroads and 
 sleigh-haul roads now existing or which will be built during the next few months 
 by the J. S. Stearns Lumber Co. for the logging of timber purchased by said 
 ■company from Indian allotments. It is believed that a better price for this 
 timber could be obtained from this company if the timber could be sold within 
 the next year than can possibly be obtained from any other company at any 
 subsequent time. 
 
 There can be no question that it would be better for all concerned to have 
 this scattered timber cut and the proceeds deposited in banks at interest than 
 to have it remain standing exposed to fire and wind. In order to administer 
 this timber so as to safeguard the interests of the Indians the department has 
 prepared an item for incorporation in the Indian appropriation bill for the fiscal 
 year 1916. The item is as follows: 
 
 " That the Secretary of the Interior be, and hereby is, authorized to sell the 
 timber on the so-called " school lands " and " swamp lands," to which the State 
 of 'msconsin has asserted a claim, within the boundaries of the Bad River 
 and Lac du Flambeau Indian Reservations in Wisconsin and deposit the pro- 
 ceeds derived from each legal subdivision to the credit of such land description 
 in a national bank bonded for the safe keeping of individual Indian moneys, 
 to be held at interest pending a final determination of the title to such lands: 
 Provided. That the consent of the State, or parties claiming title therefrom, be 
 ■obtained before any such sale is made." 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 763 
 
 The department would be pleased to see this item included in the Indian 
 appropriation bill for the fiscal year 1916. 
 Cordially, yours, 
 
 A. A. Jones, 
 First Assistant Secretary. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashtjbst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
 Senator Townsend. May I ask the Senator from Wisconsin if 
 there is not now pending a suit to determine title ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. There is a suit pending to determine title 
 It is pending in the Federal court. The State, according to my 
 recollection and information, has sold and is soon to convey title to 
 this swamp land on the assumption that it owns the land; so that 
 the real parties in interest are those to whom the so-called sales have 
 been made. 
 
 This provision — I have just read it hastily — I think might prop- 
 erly be put upon the Indian appropriation bill, but I think it should 
 be perhaps safeguarded with reference to the consent to be obtained 
 so that the consent of the parties claiming an interest shall be ob- 
 tained in such may as not to recognize any rights in the parties or 
 so as not to complicate that suit in any way. 
 
 Senator Owen. Will you read it, Senator? 
 
 Senator La Follette. This is the provision that it is proposed to 
 insert : 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he hereby is, authorized to sell 
 the timber on the so-called school land and swamp land, to which the State of 
 Wisconsin has asserted claim, within the boundaries of the Bad River and 
 Lac du Flambeau Indian Reservations in Wisconsin and deposit the proceeds 
 derived from each legal subdivision to the credit of each land description in a 
 national bank bonded for the safe keeping of the individual moneys, to be held 
 at interest pending a final determination of the title to such lands : Provided, 
 That the consent of the State, or parties claiming title therefrom, be obtained 
 before any such sale is made. 
 
 Senator Page. Does not that cover the point? 
 
 Senator Eobinson. ''■And provided further, That such proceeding 
 and such consent shall in no wise affect the rights or interests of the 
 parties to such litigation." 
 
 Senator La Follette. Something of that kind should be added. 
 
 Senator Owen. After this suit has been determined ought not 
 this provision to dispose of the funds which are collected from this 
 source in accordance with the determination of the suit, or will it 
 be necessary to come back again to Congress and ask further action? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Well, the fund would^ 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Follow the land description? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes; it would follow the land. 
 
 Senator Townsend. It does not quite say that, does it? 
 
 Senator Owen. It is deposited to the land description. 
 
 The Chairman. To each land description? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I will read back—" and deposit the pro- 
 ceeds derived from each legal subdivision to the credit of each land 
 description in a National bank bonded for the safe-keeping of the 
 individual Indian moneys, to be held at interest pending a final 
 determination of the title to such land." 
 
764 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. Is that intended to signify that the party who re- 
 ceived title to the land under the court's decision should _ then be 
 entitled to that money and get it because it is to the credit of the 
 land description? 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is as I understand it. - 
 
 Senator Owen. That is the intention, is it? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I believe it is. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. There should be no difficulty in clearly express- 
 ing it. 
 
 Senator Fall. That does not do it. 
 
 Senator Townsend. It does not work it out but I can readily see 
 that it can be done. 
 
 Senator Owen. I suggest that the Chair appoint the Senator from 
 Wisconsin and some other Senator as a committee to perfect 1iiat 
 language. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Mr. Meritt, I will ask you if you are ac- 
 quainted with this matter? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; we intended 
 
 Senator La Follette. Did you prepare this amendment? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. That was prepared in our office. I passed on the 
 case before it left the Indian Office. It was intended that this 
 money should be held in escrow to the credit of particular tracts of 
 land until after this litigation and that then the money should be 
 disbursed to whomever should be entitled to receive it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Let me ask you this — there is also swamp 
 land in the Menominee Indian Reservation that I think is in exactly 
 the same position that this land is, and that suits are pending with 
 regard to that, or it may be that the suits have not been started. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think we can accomplish what is desired by 
 the interlineation of one or two words at the beginning of the para- 
 graph, as follows: "And without bias or prejudice to the rights of 
 any party, the Secretary be and he is hereby," etc. 
 
 The Chaieman. Senator La Follette, will you prepare the amend- 
 ment in the proper form? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I suggest the following language: "Without 
 bias or prejudice to the rights or interest of any party to the litiga- 
 tion hereinafter mentioned, the Secretary," etc. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I suggest that that be incorporated in the 
 amendment. 
 
 Senator Robinson. It was designed that the matter should be 
 closed up when the litigation ends, and when such litigation is finally 
 determined said sum should be paid to the person adjudged to be 
 the rightful owner of said land. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes. 
 
 IEEIGATION — PAPAGO INDIAN ALLOTMENTS, ARIZONA. 
 
 The Chairman. Before we adjourn I ask unanimous consent to 
 incorporate in our committee record a letter from the honorable Com- 
 missioner of Indian Affairs, referring to an item of $20,000 in the 
 estimates for the Indian appropriation bill for this year in reference 
 to the beginning of the construction of works to protect the irrigable 
 allotments of the Papago Indians from damage by floods, and to 
 irrigate their lands. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 765 
 
 (The letter is as follows :) 
 
 Depaktment of the Interior, 
 
 Office of Indian Affairs. 
 
 Wiislungton, February 16, 1915. 
 
 Mr Dear Senator Ashtjrst : Referring to the item of $20,000 In the estimates 
 for the Indian appropriation bill for the fiscal year 1916, for beginning con- 
 struction of the worlis to protect the irrigable allotments of the Papago In- 
 dians from damage by floods and to irrigate the same, I have the honor to 
 advise you that this is a most meritorious project, and one that may be con- 
 sidered in a manner urgent. 
 
 The work comes under tvro heads — protection of the irrigable lands from 
 damage by floods and irrigation system for the irrigation of the land. 
 
 For a great many years the Indians farmed an extensive area on the Papago 
 Reservation, which lies south of Tucson ; and doubtless they would still be iiTl- 
 gating except for the great difliculty of maintaining the headings of their 
 ditches in the barrancas, which are liable to destructive erosion by the action 
 of flood water. 
 
 In the report of the engineers of the Indian Service (S. Doc. No. 973, 62d 
 Cong. ) the urgent necessity of protecting these lands from further encroachment 
 of the barrancas was fully discussed. To leave these lands unprotected for a 
 few years longer will doubtless result in such a condition that the Indians will 
 be damaged both in the loss of their lands and in the absence of facilities for 
 using water for irrigation upon those allotments not destroyed by floods. 
 
 The question of a water supply is discussed in detail in the report mentioned, 
 and there is no doubt of the existence of a supply which may be developed for 
 use on the lands of this reservation without infringing in any degree upon the 
 supply requisite for the city of Tucson. While accurate information is not 
 available as to the acreage formerly cultivated by these Indians, it is believed 
 that they cultivated an area considerably in excess of that contemplated by the 
 project for which the appropriation was requested. Therefore the water which 
 will probably be required for the project under discussion will not exceed the 
 amount which might be decreed to those Indians upon an adjudicatioH, if due 
 consideration were given their activity in the former use of water for irrigation. 
 It is therefore recommended that the item receive favorable consideration by 
 Congress. 
 
 Very truly, yours, 
 
 Oato Sells, Commissioner. 
 
 Hon. Henkt F. Ashtjrst, 
 
 Chairm,an Oommittee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee do 
 now adjourn until to-morrow morning at 10.30 o'clock. 
 
 The motion was agreed to; and (at 12 o'clock m.) the committee 
 adjourned until to-morrow, Wednesday, February 17, 1915, at 10.30 
 o'clock a. m. 
 
 FEBRTJAEY 17, 1915. 
 
 Committee on Indian Aitaies, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 
 By reason of other engagements of the members of the committee 
 to-day, there was no session of the committee. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 FRIDAY, FEBBTJARY 19, 1916. 
 
 United States Senate, 
 Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashm'st (chairman). Lane, Robinson, Thompf 
 son, Owen, White, Clapp, La Follette, Page, Grdnna, and Townsend- 
 also Mr. E. B. Meritt, Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 PAYMENT OF FUNDS OF INCOMPETENT INDIANS. 
 
 The Chairman. The assistant commissioner has an item which he 
 desires to present, which we have aheady "discussed. It is to be found 
 on page 96 of the House hearings. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The item we would like to have incorporated in the 
 bill reads as foUows: 
 
 That section 2 of the act approved March 2, 1907 (34 Stat. L., p. 1221), entitled 
 "An act providing for the allotment and distribution of Indian tribal funds," be, and 
 the same is hereby, amended so as to read as follows: 
 
 " Seo. 2. That the pro rata share of any Indian who is mentally, physically, or other- 
 wise incapable of managing his or her own affairs may be withdrawn from the Treasury 
 in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior and expended for the benefit of such 
 Indian under such rules, regulations, and conditions as the said Secretary shall pre- 
 scribe." 
 
 The purpose of this proposed legislation is to enable the department 
 to pay to the incompetent but able-bodied Indians their pro rata 
 share of the funds now in the Treasury to their credit, to have the use 
 of those funds for their benefit. We have the authority now to pay 
 out their jpro rata share to the competent Indians and also to the 
 decrepit Indians, but the legislation has been interpreted by the law 
 officers of the department to mean that the Secretary has no authority 
 to pay out money to the incompetent but able-bodied Indians, who 
 are the ones who can use their money to the best advantage on their 
 allotments. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Did we not have that subject up once before? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes; it has been up twice. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. But I do not think it was ever agreed to. 
 
 Senator Robinson. As I recall it, there was no objection to it. 
 But it was thought an arrangement ought to be made whereby a man 
 who has an estate and could not handle it himself ought to have the 
 benefit of it while he lives. 
 
 Senator Owen. What is the language you propose now, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is as follows : 
 
 Sec 2 That the pro rata share of any Indian who is mentally, physically, or 
 otherwise incapable of manastng his or her own affairs may be withdrawn from the 
 Treasury in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior and expended for the benefit 
 of such Indians under such rules, reguk tions, and conditions as the said Secretary 
 may prescribe. 
 
768 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. I see no objection to that. 
 
 Senator Page. The objection to that last year was this, that this 
 matter wa-s placed in the hands of the Indian agents, and that the 
 money was withdrawn from the Treasury — his share, whatever it 
 was — and placed in a bank where the Indian agent could draw it out 
 at any time at his pleasm-e, and we thought it was not a safe place 
 to put it. 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. The Indian agent can not draw it out at his pleasure. 
 He must get the approval of the department. 
 
 Senator Page. Why not keep it in the Treasury instead of placing 
 it in a private bank out there ? 
 
 Mr. Mekitt. For the reason that the Indian has money in the 
 Treasury drawing 3 per cent interest and he can not use that money 
 for his industrial benefit on his own allotment where he needs it, and 
 he is now required to pay a large per cent on money when he has his 
 own money in the Treasury that he can not reach. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What is the objection to giving the com- 
 missioner authority to draw this money out of the Treasury as he 
 may need it for their use 1 
 
 Senator Page. That is it exactly. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is the authority which we would have under 
 this legislation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. This does not contemplate withdrawal and 
 depositing in banks? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We can withdraw it and deposit it in banks. We 
 probably wiU handle it in that way when the Indian has reached the 
 point where he needs it on his allotment. We probably will not 
 withdraw it until he needs it on his allotment. 
 
 Senator Lane. That will result in taking all of his funds out and 
 putting them into a bank? 
 
 Senator Townsend. I do not see why you could not draw the 
 money from the Treasury and use it as you want it. 
 
 Senator Owen. It would require a petty cash in the Subtreasury 
 which would be very annoying to the Treasurer. How would you 
 suggest, Senator Lane, that these Indians might get the benefit of 
 this money ? 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not know; if there is good guardianship it 
 ought to be an easy matter. What I thought about it was that in 
 the handling of the funds in the past there has not always been good 
 guardianship and much of their money has been lost, and I was afraid 
 that this might open another door. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think there have been serious abuses, but here 
 is this money which is not available to them at aU. It is just tied 
 up m the Treasury, and they are not having the use of it while they 
 are alive. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This language provides that it may be withdrawn 
 from the Treasury in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior. 
 That would leave it discretionary with the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Townsend. But your purpose is to draw it out and put it 
 in a bank ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Our purpose is to draw it out whenever any Indian 
 can use it on his allotment and put it in a local bank to draw interest, 
 and then let the local superintendent make a recommendation after 
 consulting the Indian, and we wiU get the approval of their recom- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 769 
 
 mendation by the department. We will use that money for buying 
 teams and farming implements. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How much of this do you think will be used 
 in this way ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I should say this would affect 10,000 Indians, probably, 
 who have various amounts to their credit running anywhere from $50 
 up to $300 or $400 apiece. That money is now in the Treasury and 
 they can not use it. We had a delegation of Kiowa Indians here a 
 few days who were requesting this legislation. They claim that it 
 is an injustice to them to have their money in the Treasury where 
 they can not use it when they need it on their allotments. 
 
 Senator Owen. We need some constructive legislation, and that 
 is the reason I ask what can we do ? 
 
 Senator Lane. You need constructive'legislation, but you can not 
 construct a new structure on a foundation that is not sound — a foun- 
 dation that is wabbling. 
 
 Senator Owen. What suggestion would you make so that it would 
 not wabble? 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not know; but that wiU have to be done, and 
 I think it can be done. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not take much stock in the suggestion that it 
 win be troublesome to draw a check and make an entry in a book. A 
 single check entry of an amount drawn by an Indian on the authority 
 of the Treasury Department to a man's account is a very simple 
 matter. Small banks do that to the extent of $1,000 every month. 
 
 Senator Owen. But take a subtreasurer's account; if he had to 
 keep the petty cash of 10,000 Indians it would be a very exasperating 
 matter — it would be rather a complicated procedure. 
 
 Senator Lane. I think you could specify in this particular section 
 the Indians whose needs are very urgent, and I would be perfectly 
 willing to let them have it. But this is a general blanket provision. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not care how it is arranged, but obviously 
 there ought to be something done to let these people get their money 
 while they are ahve. 
 
 Senator Page. Mr. Meritt, do you claim to have no right to take 
 out money from the Treasury Department belonging to the Indian 
 if he needs it, imder existuig law ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. The law officers so hold as to incompetent, able-bodied 
 Indians. We have authority to withdraw the funds of competent 
 Indians, and also aged and decrepit Indians, but as to incompetent, 
 able-bodied Indians we now have no authority. 
 
 Senator Lane. What is the test of his incompetency ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. A man who has not sufficient education and sufficient 
 business abiUty to handle his own affairs. 
 
 Senator Lane. And that depends upon the judgment of the depart- 
 ment? You can declare any Indian incompetent at any time and 
 put him on the incompetent hst? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Not after he is once declared competent. An Indian 
 who receives a patent in fee can handle it as he sees fit. 
 
 Senator Lane. All able-bodied Indians would coyer full-blood In- 
 dians — every Indian who is incompetent to do business ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Until declared competent. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is that the general rule ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is the general rule. 
 
 82833 — ^TOIi 1 — 15 i9 
 
770 IKDIA^q- APPEOPKIxlIIOi^' BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. It reaches to all those who are able-bodied. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Did the House put this legislation m the biU? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No; it is new legislation. They left out all items of 
 new legislation. But it is very much needed. It is an mjustice to 
 the Indians now who will make good use of the money that belongs 
 to them. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Where are these Indians located ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. AU over the United States. So far as the Indians 
 have money to their credit in the Treasury, this legislation would 
 apply. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I thmk there ought to be some way by which 
 you coiild use this money, or some portion of it. I had not thought, 
 though, that if an Indian had $1,000 you mtended to take all of that 
 out if the Indian wanted to buy a milch cow, cattle, or something of 
 that kind, but that you would use portions of it as required. It 
 might not be require(i by the Indian for 10 years. 
 
 Senator Owen. It has to be left in the discretion of some one, 
 either Congress or the commissioner. If you can draw the line so 
 that Congress can exercise discretion by groups, or somethiag of 
 that kind, it might be done. 
 
 Senator Page. What do you say to 25 per cent during the next 
 year ? 
 
 Senator Owen. How would that operate where the Indians have 
 aU the way from $10 to their credit up to $300, $400, or $500? 
 
 Senator Page. Where they have less than $50 let them draw it aU, 
 or if more than $50, 25 per cent. Can you not tie it up ia some 
 way so that they will not take it all out ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Would not this proviso meet your objection? 
 
 Provided, That the funds of the said Indians shall not be withdrawn from the Treas- 
 ury until needed by the Indians for industrial purposes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You do not want to limit the funds to industrial 
 purposes. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We could use them for industrial purposes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. But you do not want to limit the use of them 
 to industrial purposes ? 
 
 Senator Owen. It does seem to me that if an able-bodied Indian 
 had some money and wanted to buy a rabbit trap, or something of 
 that kind, he should be allowed to do it. Human life carries with it 
 the pleasure incident to doing the thing that the man wants to do, 
 and I believe he ought to be allowed to do what he wants to do to 
 some extent. This proposition of saying, "You can use your own 
 money, provided you will hoe corn," I do not think is right. Some 
 of those fellows do not want to hoe corn and they are not going to 
 hoe corn, and you can not make them. 
 
 Senator Lane. Senator Owen, is there not some way whereby it 
 could be fixed so that the Indian could have a say in the matter? 
 
 Senator Owen. That is exactly what I am talking about; I want 
 him to have some say, but not to have it for industrial purposes 
 means to say that they would not have any say about it. 
 
 Senator Townsend. As I understand it, when you say it could be 
 appropriated for industrial purposes, you could use it for any pur- 
 pose. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They could use it for any purpose that would im- 
 prove their allotments. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 771 
 
 Senator Owen. I think it ought to be broad enough to cover his 
 needs. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I am not asking for that proviso. It was simply 
 suggested to me as something that would meet the objection. 
 
 Senator Page. Can you not restrict it in some way so as to provide 
 for not over $50 in any year ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Suppose an Indian wanted to buy a team, that 
 would prevent buying him a team. 
 
 Senator Owex. You might buy him two little rats, and that 
 would be a good way to spend it. That would be congressional 
 discretion, passing upon a state of facts that are not before the 
 committee. 
 
 Senator Page. As I understand it this matter would be reaUy in 
 the hands of the Indian agent? 
 
 Senator Owen. You have got to put it in the hands of somebody; 
 it has to be either in your hands or the hands of the Commissioner of 
 Indian Aifairs. If you want to pass upon it without any knowledge 
 of the facts, that is for you, as a member of this committee, to de- 
 termine. But I think it would be better to put it into the hands of 
 somebody whom you could trust to handle it with honesty and then 
 see that he handles it with official discretion, and honestly, and if not, 
 remove him. 
 
 Senator Page. Is there not a pressure on the part of those banks 
 out there to get hold of this money and use it? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Not at all. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is upon the amendment. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I want to make a suggestion. I think that 
 is all right. I do not think it ought to be within the power of the 
 commissioner to draw all this money out and put it in the banks. 
 
 Senator Owen. Why not put in a proviso that it shall not be put 
 into the banks and let the agent keep it in his own safe ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. No ; I do not want that. I think it should be 
 drawn out of the Treasury as the department thinks it is needed, but 
 I do not approve of a blanket authority to draw the money out and 
 put it in the banks. I am opposed to that, and I am as much opposed 
 to it as I would be if it were m Michigan, Oklahoma, Oregon, or Min- 
 nesota, or anywhere else. If anybody is going to get any benefifout 
 of this the Government is entitled to it. If it is going to remain 
 anywhere for any length of time, let it stay there. If the Indian 
 needs it, let him have it. 
 
 Senator Owen. I agree with that suggestion. 
 
 The Chairman. What is your amendment, Senator Townsend ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. To add a proviso that this money shall only 
 be drawn from the United States as the Indians require or need the 
 money. That is not probably the comprehensive way of puttmg it. 
 I had not thought of drawing it, but I can do so. 
 
 Senator Owen. That the money shaU be drawn from the Ireasury 
 
 only as needed ? , . .„ , i x i i i 
 
 Senator Townsend. Yes; so that it wiU be understood clearly. 
 
 Mr Meritt. We can prepare such an amendment. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Meritt, suppose you read it as amended. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I agree that it should be passed with that 
 understanding. I am perfectly satisfied to let it be drawn to cover 
 that proposition. 
 
772 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. Then it is understood that the amendment is 
 agreed to with Senator Townsend's amendment, the a,ppropriate 
 language of which wUl be supplied during the course of this meetmg. 
 
 Has any other Senator any other matter to bnng before the com- 
 mittee? 
 
 Senator Lane. I understand that Senator La Follette has a matter 
 that he desues to propose, and there is a gentleman here who was 
 promised a hearmg— I think, Mr. Ballinger— with respect to the 
 Choctaw item. 
 
 Senator Owen. I object to any further hearmgs by this committee. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I should like to have a hearing on that briefly. 
 
 Mr. Commissioner, you say the restrictions are removed where 
 some of the Indians are declared competent. Do you mean by that 
 that when an Indian is declared competent he can handle his prop- 
 erty as he sees fit 1 
 
 Mr. Meritt. When an Indian receives a patent in fee to a tract 
 of land, he can handle that land in any way he sees fit. He is placed 
 on the same status that any white man would be, so far as that land 
 is concerned. 
 
 Senator Owen. He can handle his money as he sees fit ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No; it requires the approval of the Secretary of the 
 Interior with respect to his money. 
 
 Senator Owen. Whether he is competent or not ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. If he gets a patent in fee, there is no question about 
 his getting the money. 
 
 Senator Lane. But when he is declared competent does he have 
 the right to handle his own affairs ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. If the Secretary of the Interior declares him compe- 
 tent, the Secretary will also permit him to handle his funds, in the 
 discretion of the Indian. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Here is a letter that MJr. Sloan has just 
 handed me. It is dated some years back — December 3, 1907 — and 
 I was wondering if there had been any change of policy. It is as 
 foUows-: 
 
 Department op the Interior, 
 United States Indian Service, 
 Omaha Agency, Macy, Nehr., December 3, 1907. 
 Thomas L. Sloan, Pender, Nehr. 
 
 Sir: Under date of October 4, 1907, the Secretary of the Interior granted authority 
 ior you to manage your own allotment described as the south half of the northeast 
 xjuarter of section 20, township 24, range 8, and lots 5, 6, and 7, of section 26, township 
 25, range 6, without assistance from this office either by hiring the necessary labor to 
 larm the land or by leasing it for such time as you wish, not exceeding that provided 
 bylaw. The test of the authority is as follows: 
 
 "The leases given under this authority are to be in writing and are to be null and 
 void if made prior to six months before the expiration of an existing lease. The 
 privilege of leasing independently was granted because these allottees were regarded 
 as capable of attending to their own business and it was with the understanding that 
 it is revocable in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior." 
 
 If your land is already leased it will be necessary for you to wait till within six 
 months of the time this lease expires before making a new lease. I hope your ability 
 to manage your own affairs may be demonstrated and may fully justify the confidence 
 that has been placed in you. 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 Jno. M. Commons, 
 Superintendent and 8. D. Agent. 
 
 Senator Owen. Who is that letter addressed to ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. It is addressed to Mr. Thomas L. Sloan. 
 
mDIAN APPEOPBIATIOlir BILL. 773 
 
 Senator Owen. The gentleman who is nominated for Commissioner 
 of Indian Affairs ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. That is the man. 
 
 Senator Owen. Upon my word! 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That letter was written m 1907. 
 
 Senator Owen. I know, but it is disgraceful to the office; it is 
 shameful. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The present policy of the office 
 
 Senator Owen. It shows that the office would not grant com- 
 petency to a man who was competent to run that office ; that is what 
 it shows. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That letter was written in 1907. That is no indication 
 of the pohcy of the office now. 
 
 Senator Owen. I understand that. I am not talking about what 
 the pohcy of the office is now. I am talking about that act then of 
 that office, and that is characteristic, too. 
 
 Senator Lane. They are doing it, I think, because my attention, 
 as well as that of Senator Robinson, has been called to a number of 
 allotments where Indians are not allowed to use them. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Mr. Sloan teUs me that three years afterwards 
 he was cited to appear before a competency commissioner to decide 
 whether he could go on with his business. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. He was declared competent, was he not? 
 
 Senator Townsend. This was in 1907. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is no trouble about Indians being declared 
 competent. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Commissioner, I do not think you ought to say 
 that. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The present policy of the department is to allow 
 Indians who are competent to handle their own funds. 
 
 Senator Owen. Who are competent, but I think the policy of the 
 department is not to allow competency except under very great 
 difficulty. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Mr. Sloan tells me that even out among the 
 Omahas that practice has been followed, that where an Indian is 
 declared competent he is supervised. 
 
 Senator Robinson. They are the finest specimens of physical 
 manhood, and many of them of intellectual manhood in the world. 
 I did not know there was such a race of Indians in existence. The 
 average size of the Omaha Indian seems to be between 250 and 300 
 pounds. I met during the last summer, forty or fifty of them and I 
 do not think a single one of them weighed less than 250 pounds and 
 all of them appeared to be highly intelligent. At the Omaha Agency 
 for months and months, there have been complaints as to the tran- 
 sactions of the chief clerk of the agency, and m my judgment most 
 of those Indians who made the complaints are more intelhgent than 
 the average superintendent or clerk. 
 
 Senator Townsend. When are we ever going to make men out of 
 those Indians ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. They are better men now than half of the 
 white people who Mve in the same neighborhood with them. 
 
 Senator Owen. The Indian Office is never going to release its grasp 
 on those people until the Government takes some action by law to 
 compel the Indian Office to do so. That is my opinion about it. I 
 
774, INDIAN- APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 have seen the way they are handled down in Oklahoma. A woman 
 came to me complainmg that she could not get justice; she was prac- 
 tically white — she had some strain of Indian blood in her; I think 
 she had been teaching school down there. 
 
 Senator Lane. That condition seems to exist; at least that is the 
 complaint. 
 
 Senator Owen. Now, with regard to the expenditure of this fund 
 that we were just speaking of and to which this amendment has been 
 suggested, I think the Indian ought to'have some voice in that mat- 
 ter, and I move a further amendment to that, that the expenditure 
 be made with his consent 
 
 Senator Robinson. You mean on his request ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; on his request. 
 
 Senator Robinson. When approved by the department? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Here is an item that I have drafted : 
 
 Provided, That Baid funds of any Indian shall not be withdrawn from the 
 Treasury until needed by the Indian, and upon his application, and when approved 
 by the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to.) 
 
 continuation of the joint commission to investigate INDIAN 
 
 AFFAIRS. 
 
 The Chairman. I desire to suggest an amendment on page 12 of 
 the third committee print, line 17. It is in relation to the continua- 
 tion of the joint commission. I wish to propose an amendment that 
 the word "immediately" be inserted between the words "made" 
 and "available," so that it will read, "and the unexpended amount 
 therein appropriated for the expense of said commission is hereby 
 reappropriated and made immediately available," etc.; otherwise 
 it would not be available until the 1st of July. 
 
 Senator Robinson. The appropriation will lapse on the 4th day of 
 March and unless it is made immediately available it could not be 
 used until after the beginning of the next fiscal year. 
 
 Senator Owen. We modified that so as to make it apply to Mem- 
 bers of Congress. 
 
 The Chairman. Yes; here is the amendment: 
 
 Provided, That when any vacancy shall occur upon said joint commission by reason 
 of the expiration of the term of office of any Member of the House of Representatives 
 upon said joint commission, or of any Senator upon said joint commission, or from any 
 other cause, the Speaker of the House, if the vacancy occurs with reference to the 
 House of Representatives, or the President of the Senate, with reference to a Senator, 
 shall fill such vacancy by appointment. 
 
 (The amendment proposed by the chairman was agreed to.) 
 
 FARMING EQUIPMENT, BLACKFEET RESERVATION. 
 
 Senator Lane. I desire to suggest an amendment to the item on 
 page 39. 
 
 (The item referred to is as follows :) 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to withdraw 
 from the Treasury cf the United States not to exceed the sum of $150,000, or so much 
 thereof as may be necessary, of the principal sum on deposit to the credit of the Indians 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 7 75 
 
 on the Blackfeet Reservation in Montana, for tlie purpose of purchasing and caring 
 tor cattle for the use of said Indians, to enable them to become self-supporting, under 
 such rules, regulations, and conditions as said Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. 
 
 I desire to add, after the word "Indians," the words "seeds and 
 necessary equipment," making it read as follows: 
 
 Or so much thereof as may be necessary of the principal sum on deposit to the 
 credit of the Indians on the Blackfeet Reservation in Montana for the purpose of 
 purchasmg and caring for cattle for the use of said Indians, seeds, and necessary 
 farmmg equipment to enable them to become self-supporting, etc. 
 
 I think Mr. Meritt is in favor of that. 
 
 Mr. Meeeit. Yes, sir; I am. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not think they will do so much farming on it. 
 It is an awful frost-bitten climate. However, I think they ought to 
 have that privilege, and the commissioner is in favor of that. 
 _ Mr. Mekeit. Yes, sir; we are going to use that general appropria- 
 tion for that purpose. 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to.) 
 
 OEOW INDIAN EESEEVATION. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is an item in the bill with respect to the 
 Crow Reservation in Montana, as follows : 
 
 For fuUilling treaties with Crows, Montana: For pay of physician, $1,200; and for 
 pay of carpenter, miller, engineer, farmer, and blacksmith (article ten, treaty of 
 May seventh, eighteen hundred and sixty-eight), $3,600; for pay of second black- 
 smith (article eight, same treaty), ?1,200; in all, $6,000. 
 
 That seems to be the only appropriation made for the conduct of 
 that reservation now. What I want to say is this, that there has 
 been complaint made to the commission and to me as a member of 
 it, for a long time — I do not know how long, a number of months or 
 years, or such matter — that the moneys of the Indians, the treaty 
 funds, funds which belong to them were being used to in part con- 
 duct the affairs of this reservation. The Indians claim, and Mrs. 
 Gray has set up the claim, or complaint, that the Indians were going 
 hungry and even at times were practically destitute. There are funds 
 which are being collected in their behalf from grazing their lands, 
 some of which was allotted land amounting to $150,000 or $160,000 
 a year, but the Indians receive none of it, and that the use of that 
 money, or those funds for the purpose of carrying on the affairs of 
 that reservation, such as the payment of employees, was contrary to 
 their treaty rights and was an injustice to them, and that it- was 
 . being done despite their protests. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Senator Lane, I suggest that Senator 
 Owen desires to be heard especially when the Choctaw matter is 
 brought up, and it is not convenient for him to remain. here, and as 
 this Crow matter, if we go into it will take some little time, I would 
 ask if you are willing to suspend and let us take up the Choctaw en- 
 rollment, or the Choctaw per capita distribution item.^ 
 
 Senator Lane. That is perfectly satisfactory to me." 
 
 PEE CAPITA payments TO CHOCTAWS AND CHIOItASAWS. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I wish to say for the record that my oppo- 
 sition to the per capita distribution of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 funds provided for in this biU is based upon a conviction that I have 
 
776 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 long entertained that it will lay the foundation for an ultimate claim 
 ag^st the Government that will reach into the nuUions. I do not 
 know how many people are equitably entitled to be enrolled, but 1 
 do know that the record in the Indian Office will show that some 
 have been left off who have exactly the same claim to distribution 
 in this fund that have others who have been put on by special 
 provisions in appropriation bills which have heretofore passed. 
 Last year's appropriation bill added some two or three hundred 
 names, I beUeve — is that not so. Senator Owen ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I think it was over 400, and that included those 
 whom the department said they had found equitably entitled, or had 
 an equitable claim. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think you are mistaken about that. 
 
 Senator Owen. Not about the action of the department, because I 
 made it a part of the record here. I made a Senate document of it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I stiU say that I think you are mistaken 
 about it. I would Hke to have Mr. Field, who represents certain of 
 these claimants, heard by this committee this morning for a very 
 limited time. It may take 15 minutes. 
 
 Senator Owen. I move that he be given 15 minutes. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Well, it may take him 20 minutes or 25 
 minutes. I want him to have time enough to present his case. 
 
 As he has laid it before me, he represents certain Indians, among 
 whom are brothers and sisters of some of those who were put on a 
 year ago and whose records in the Indian Office are identical with 
 those who were put on by the special provision made in the appro- 
 priation bill a year ago. 
 
 Senator Owen. I would like to say for the record that the Nichols 
 family ought not to have been put on, and the Choctaw Nation 
 would have a just claim against the United States for having put 
 them on. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They were put on and were included in 
 the provision that was made a year ago. 
 
 Senator Owen. But not on the recommendation of the depart- 
 ment. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I wiU ask first to have Mr. Field heard 
 and then I think Mr. Ballinger wants to be heard for 15 or 20 minutes 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. WALTER S. FIELD, ATTORNEY AT LAW, 
 WASHINGTON, D. C. 
 
 Mr. Field. I will come directly to the point raised last, and that is 
 the question of the Nichols family. The record of the Nichols 
 family shows that there are 18 persons out of a total of 62 who were 
 enrolled by the tribal authorities of the Choctaw Nation in 1896. 
 From that enrollment the Choctaw Nation took an appeal to the 
 United States courts in the Indian Territory — I am mistaken. The 
 Nichols family were denied enrollment by the Dawes Commission, 
 from which they appealed, and the Federal court enrolled them. 
 The United States court for the Indian Territory enrolled them. The 
 decision enroUing them is found in Senate Document No. 1139, 
 Sixty-second Congress, third session, known as the Five Civilized 
 Tribes in Oklahoma. A number of other cases were similarly 
 appealed to the Federal court. Subsequently, an act of Congress 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 777 
 
 was passed giving the Supreme Court jurisdiction upon appeal in 
 those cases. One hundred and sixty-six cases were appealed from 
 by four of the different tribes of the Civilized Tribes to the Supreme 
 Court of the United States. A portion of those cases were those 
 where the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes had enrolled the 
 person and where the Nation had appealed. The great majority 
 of them were the reverse, where the commission had refused to enroll 
 the person, where upon appeal to the United States court for the 
 Indian Territory that court had directed their enrollment and the 
 nation had appealed to the Supreme Court. 
 
 Those 166 cases appealed to the Supreme Court were consolidated 
 in what is known as the Stevens v. The Cherokee Nation. In that case 
 Stevens appealed. By the decision of the lower court he was off of 
 the rolls. The Supreme Court took this view of the act of Congress 
 giving that court jurisdiction; it held that the act of Congress only 
 conferred jurisdiction upon the Supreme Court of the United States 
 to determine the constitutionality of the various acts under which 
 the Dawes Commission and the United States court for the Indian 
 Territory had these various decisions. They held the acts to be 
 constitutional, and thereby affirmed the decisions of the lower court 
 iu aU of those cases. Now, remember, the decision of the lower 
 court was in Nichols's favor. Nichols's was a part of what was known 
 as the Nancy J. Cooper case. The result of the decision in the Su- 
 preme Court was to affirm the decision of the lower court enrolling 
 the Nichols family and the whole of the Nancy J. Cooper family. 
 
 It ran on for several years. Those people expended large amounts 
 of money in improviag their farm which they had held for a long time 
 in the Indian Territory. The statute declared the judgment final, 
 and under it they improved these farms that they had held for a long 
 time, some of them building houses and buildings that aggregated a 
 total value of $5,000 or $6,000. An act was passed creating a 
 special tribunal known as the citizenship court. 
 
 Senator Townsejv'd. After this decision? 
 
 Mr. Field. After that decision became final, after they had per- 
 fected their possession and made their improvements. This case 
 went with the whole lot that had formerly been decided by the 
 United States Court for the Indian Territory to this special tribunal. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Under this special act? 
 
 Mr. Field. Under the special act, and was set aside with all the 
 rest upon a legal technicality, namely, that the service of the original 
 appeal from tne Dawes Commission to the Federal court was served 
 onty on« one of the two nations — the Choctaw and Chickasaw Na- 
 tions — they holding their property on proportion to their membership, 
 practically three-fourths to the Choctaw Nation and one-fourth to 
 the Chickasaw Nation. Service was had only on the Choctaw 
 Nation because the Cooper family were claiming membership in the 
 Choctaw Tribe. It was held that because their property interests 
 were joint that an appeal from a citizenship question, where only 
 citizenship was involved, should have been upon both nations. 
 
 Senator Townsend. But do I understand you to say that the 
 Supreme Court held that the only thing involved in the case before 
 them was the constitutionality of the act? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir; of the act permittmg an appeal from the 
 Dawes Commission to the Federal court for the Indian Territorv. 
 
778 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 That act being constitutional, they aflBrmed the judgments of the 
 lower court and that put the Nancy J. Cooper f^nily upon the rolls. 
 
 The citizenship court, as I say, struck them off of the roUs. bub- 
 sequently to that the Interior Department directed the Dawes Com- 
 mission to disregard the decisions of the citizenship court m cases 
 having the status occupied by the Nancy J. Cooper family, including 
 the Nichols family, and to hear the Nichols case, and rehear the 
 Nancy J. Cooper case. The Dawes Commission did rehear it, and 
 on the 13th day of August . . 
 
 Senator Owen. Did they appear before the Dawes Commission a 
 second time there? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir; they appeared before this comnaission a second 
 time upon the order of the Interior Department. The case was re- 
 heard, and on the 13th day of August, 1906, the Dawes Commission 
 rendered its decision enrolling them. They made up a supplemental 
 roll under instructions of the Interior Department and forwarded it 
 to the Secretary for approval. That decision and that supplemental 
 roll remained in the Indian Office until the 19th day of February, 
 1907, when, by operation of law, on the 4th day of March, 1907, 
 those rolls must be closed. 
 
 You have heard a great deal of what was known in the department 
 as the "rush period" in the Five Civilized Tribes' rolls. It was the 
 time between the 19th day of February and the 4th day of March 
 following when there were 2,023 different records passed through that 
 office and received what was supposed to be an adjudication. They 
 were aU of them practically denied, this Nancy J. Cooper family with 
 the others. I think it is wrong to say that the Nichols family ought 
 not to be on the roll, with aU due deference to the Senator. 
 
 Senator Owen. Did the Dawes Commission at the second hearing 
 enroll them? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. And it came to the Interior Department and re- 
 mained without action ? 
 
 Mr. Field. It remained without action untU the 4th day of 
 March when they were denied. 
 
 Senator Owen. On what ground were they denied ? 
 
 Mr. Field. No ground was given. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They were "denied," but it is conceded that 
 they were not considered because there was no time to consider 
 them on merit. Is not that true? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And is it not a fact that the record shows 
 that the Secretary of the Interior addressed communications day 
 after day during that rush period to the Committee on Indian Affairs 
 of the Senate complaining that they had no time to examine fairly 
 the records that were before them ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And have you before you the references 
 to those communications from the Secretary of the Interior which 
 were tantamount to an appeal to the Congress to extend the period 
 so that they could adjudicate those cases fairly, giving them the 
 examination that they were entitled to ? 
 
 Mr. Field. On January 12, 1907, the Secretary of the Interior 
 advised the Senate that the enrollment work could not be completed 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 779 
 
 prior to March 4 following. In said official communication the 
 Secretary said (S. Doc. 1139, 62d Cong, 3d sess., p. 131) : 
 
 The department concurs in the views of the Indian Office. Unless the time is 
 extended, many persons entitled to enrollment will not be enrolled. The Commis- 
 sion to the Five Civilized Tribes and the commissioner have been for years taking 
 testimony and rendering decisions in cases involving complicated questions of citi- 
 ^^w^^P ^ u *^®^® tribes, "and some of the cases have not yet reached the department. 
 
 VVhile the department has disposed of most of the citizenship cases which have come 
 before it, it apparently can not give due consideration to all the cases still pending 
 and to be submitted by the Commissioner of the Five Civilized Tribes and the Indian 
 Ofhce by the time prescribed by the section of the act of April 26, 1906 (34 Stats., 137). 
 
 Senator La Follette. What was the date of that communication ? 
 
 Mr. Field. That was on January 12, 1907. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And to whom was it addressed? 
 
 Mr. Field. This was addressed to the Senate. On March 1, 1907, 
 the Secretary again advised the Senate on the same line, and again 
 on March 2, 1907, the Secretary further advised the Senate of the 
 number of cases pending in his office unadjudicated. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How many did he say ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Two thousand and twenty-three ; not people — cases, 
 records. Many of them ought to have been denied without question. 
 It is conceded that in that bunch of cases there were many of them 
 that were improperly before the Interior Department — fraudulently 
 before the Indian Department — and for that reason people like the 
 Nichols family and like the Cooper family are suffering. 
 
 The history of that situation is this: Many white people made 
 application for enrollment in the Choctaw Nation. That has been 
 stated frequently before you by the authorities of the Choctaw 
 Tribe, and it is true. Any person who hved in Oklahoma at that 
 time who knew the people, as many of us did, knows that the state- 
 ment made by the Choctaw authorities and by the Representatives 
 in Congress from Oklahoma are true. But that is no reason why 
 the men who are enrolled should suffer because the majority of those 
 cases — if you admit that it was the majority — were fraudulent cases; 
 that is no reason why the Interior Department should not have 
 been given authority to adjudicate and cull out from that batch the 
 
 Eeople who were the wards of this Nation and wht) were entitled to 
 e enrolled. No court would deny the motion now for a rehearing, 
 and it seems to us that Congress ought not to do so. 
 
 I think that any statement as to the Nichols family not being 
 entitled to be placed on the roll is made from lack of mformation, 
 without knowing the record of that family, and without knowing the 
 facts. 
 
 The chairman of the House committee, Mr. Stephens, interested 
 himself particularly in the Nichols family, and he would come before 
 this committee and say at any time that he probably was more re- 
 sponsible for the enroUnient of the Nichols family than any one person. 
 It woidd hardly be fair to Mr. Stephens that he was putting his white 
 friends upon the Choctaw roU in order to take care of them. He 
 lived right across the Red River in Texas and had hved there for 
 years and had hunted through that country when it was a border 
 country. He had stayed with this family ; he knew they were Indians, 
 just as many of the rest of us knew they were Indians, and he insisted 
 that if anybody went on the Choctaw roll that Jim Nichols must go, 
 
780 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 and he was placed there. That is 18 people out of a record showing 
 62 brothers and sisters, and there are other cases just as inconsistent. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was Jim Nichols and his family put on ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Jim Nichols and his family were put on. , . , , 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are there brothers and sisters of Jun Nichols 
 who are not on that record, which is exactly the same as Jim Nichols's 
 record ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir; identical. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is, who were enrolled exactly as he 
 was enrolled? 
 
 Mr. Field. Just exactly; went through the same process, and have 
 lived right opposite him on an adjoining farm for 20 years; lived 
 there long prior to the time when there was any contest over the 
 enrollment — long prior to the time when there was any inducement 
 to a man to move into that country, when, if a man went there to Uve 
 it was because of tribal or family affiliations. Social conditions were 
 not desirable. There were not schools, and the great presumption is 
 in favor of any man found in that country in those years being 
 affiliated in some form with the tribe among which he was hving. 
 
 Now the Nichols family, as part of the Cooper family, is only one 
 instance of several. I do not estimate the number of people that 
 ought to go on to this Choctaw roll nearly so high as a great many do. 
 I have an idea if 500 to 700 people were put on that roll it would take 
 care of practically aU of them — those cases which are markedly 
 meritorious. There is a family known as John Kirk, who made 
 application to the Dawes Commission in 1898, a boy 12 years old. 
 
 Senator Owen. Before leaving that, I want to ask you about the 
 Nichols family. Did the citizenship court enroU them also ? 
 
 Mr. Field. No, sir; the citizenship court denied them. 
 
 Senator Owen. The citizenship court denied them ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. And it was after that denial that the Dawes 
 Commission enrolled them ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. And after the Dawes Commission enrolled them 
 then the Interior Department refused to approve them ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They did not reach their case, did they? 
 
 Mr. Field. Their case was not reached. 
 
 Senator Owen. How did they disapprove without reaching the 
 case? 
 
 Mr. Field. With a stamp. 
 
 Senator Owen. You mean they simply disapprove it without 
 making an examination of the record at all? 
 
 Mr. Field. No examination was made at all. They .disapproved 
 it as they did the majority of those cases, with a rubber stamp. 
 
 Senator Page. And for no other reason than that they were short 
 of time ? 
 
 Mr. Field. None whatever was assigned. 
 
 Senator Owen. Had not the case been up before the Department 
 before that time ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir; it was before the department. 
 
 Senator Owen. How long. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 781 
 
 Ml-. Field. The case was before the department immediately 
 following the citizenship decision. 
 
 Senator Owen. When was that ? 
 
 Mr. Field. In 1904-5. 
 
 Senator Owen. It was there from 1904 to 1907, you say? 
 
 Mr. Field. No, sir; it was in the department in 1904 and in 1905. 
 It was before the department upon an application to direct the Dawes 
 Commission, or the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, to rein- 
 vestigate it. 
 
 Senator Owen. What did the department do after that time — ■ 
 between 1904 and 1905 1 
 
 Mr. Field. It went through various phases, finally reaching an 
 opinion by the Assistant Attorney General which was approved by 
 the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Owen. To what effect ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Directuig the Dawes Commission to disregard the citi- 
 zenship court decision and reinvestigate the case from the beginning, 
 which the Dawes Commission did. 
 
 Senator Owen. Did the department either approve or isapjrove 
 during that period a d then reconsider ? 
 
 Mr. Field. They always contended that the action of the depart- 
 ment in 1904 and 1905 in directing the Dawes Commission to recon- 
 sider the case was a virtual enrollment of the Nichols people, because 
 the department itself passed on all the records that had gone there- 
 tofore. 
 
 Senator Owen. Did the department ever disapprove ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Do you mean did it ever disapprove the Nichols 
 enrollment ? 
 
 Senator Owens. Yes; before 1907. 
 
 Mr. Field. No, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. They simply heard it and directed a reconsideration? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. But the department did have it under advisement 
 and did consider the record in 1904 and 1905 ? 
 
 Mr. Field. It considered the record in 1904 and 1905 with a 
 favorable decision. 
 
 Senator Owen. To the extent of requiring 
 
 Mr. Field. Of requiring a rehearing by the Dawes Commission. 
 
 Senator Owen. I should have inferred that perhaps the depart- 
 ment had not seen the record until 1907 and then they just stamped 
 it with the negative. 
 
 Mr. Field. No, sir; the record was there — the whole of the record, 
 excepting the last hearing. 
 
 Senator Owen. Was it heard by the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affairs in 1904 and 1905 ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. It was before the commissioner, before the 
 Secretary, and before the Assistant Attorney General. 
 
 Senator Owen. So it was before three different forums m the 
 department — the commissioner, the Secretary of the Interior, and 
 the Attorney General? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir; with the result that the decision of the depart- 
 ment was that the citizens court had no jurisdiction of it, and that 
 the case should be investigated by the Dawes Commission, and if the 
 
782 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 facts were found as then shown by the record, that the Dawes Com- 
 mission should send up a favorable report and enroll them. 
 
 Senator Townsend. And which the commission did? 
 
 Mr. Field. Which it did, following the order of the Secretary. 
 John Kirk, a boy 14 years old, made apphcation in 1898 for himself 
 and sister 12 years old. Nobody in the Choctaw Nation denies the 
 fact that these two children are Choctaws. Everybody who has any 
 familiarity with the situation, either in the Choctaw Nation or in old 
 Oklahoma, around Oklahoma City and Shawnee, knows of these two 
 children and of the fact that they are of Choctaw blood. Their father 
 was a half-blood Indian, their mother a white woman — not very 
 responsible. The father died and the children had no home. The 
 mother married a stepfather who would not have Indian children 
 around him. A man by the name of John R. Davis took them with 
 him to Oklahoma, where they stayed for five years. They returned 
 to the Choctaw Nation with Davis. 
 
 Senator Owen. When ? 
 
 Mr. Field. In about 1896, or previous thereto, and he saw that 
 they went before the commission. He, and a number of Choctaws 
 who knew the records, knew their whole famUy history, appeared 
 before the Daws Commission, gave their testimony, and there is not 
 a line disputing it. The Daws Commission refused to enroU them 
 upon the groimd that they were not upon any tribal rolls. And they 
 were not. They are off the roU to-day. For no other reason. 
 
 There is the Goings family. In 1874 the auditor of Kiamitia 
 County, finds four brothers and their families upon the toU. The 
 record further shows that one of these brothers was an interpreter 
 in the early history of the Choctaw Nation in its relations with the 
 Mexican Government prior to the admission of Texas as a State, 
 or prior to the organization of the Texas Repubhc, and that these 
 people were aU born in the Choctaw Nation is undisputed. They 
 appeared before the Daws Commission and their enrollment was 
 refused. No opinion was rendered; no reason was given; just a 
 rubber stamp "Denied." And in the records is found the statement 
 of Stewart, Gordon, and Haley, who at that time were attorneys of 
 the Choctaw Nation, to the effect that there is no evidence to show 
 that the Choctaw Nation has ever disputed the righits of these people. 
 From the Dawes Commission denial they appealed to the Federal 
 court. The Federal court enrolled them. Remernber, the Federal 
 court enrolled them. This is one of the cases that was consohdated 
 in the case of Stevens v. the Cherokee Nation, referred to above, in 
 which the Supreme Court have affirmed the judgment of the lower 
 court, so that in that case specifically the Goings family were enrolled 
 by the Supreme Court of the United States. 
 
 Senator Owen. What you mean to convey by that, Mr. Field, is 
 that the Supreme Court declared the constitutionality of the original 
 act of Congress which made the district court judgment final 1 
 
 Mr. Field. The court said in so many words in the closing sen- 
 tence of its decision that holding as it did the judgment of the lower 
 court must be affirmed. Now, the Goings case went to the citizen- 
 ship court after \\vq years, and after all the money that they spent 
 in the improvements of their farms, and they were good farmers, the 
 citizenship court struck them off the roll. The Dawes Commission 
 was instructed hj general order of the Interior Department to 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 783 
 
 disregard the decision of the citizenship court in cases hke the Goings 
 case. The Goings people never made a reapphcation to the Dawes 
 Commission; were never heard afterwards. They are camped to-day 
 in the section hnes, and the $200 per capita payment that is provided 
 for in this hill, being probably a necessity to many of these enrolled 
 Indians, must be considered as taking so much proportionally out 
 of these poor people who have never acqiured a right anywhere, 
 who have never received a right anywhere, although decreed by the 
 Supreme Court of the fnited States to be entitled thereto. 
 
 There is the case of A. A. Sprague. He was a school trustee in the 
 Choctaw Nation. His daughter attended one of the seminaries of 
 the Choctaw Nation for several years. His right was never disputed 
 by anybody. Members of this delegation went to school with him; 
 know him — I mean members of the Oklahoma delegation. He ap- 
 plied to the Dawes Commission; was refused enrollment because his 
 name did not appear upon any of the tribal rolls. He appealed to the 
 Federal court that enrolled him and that enrollment by the Federal 
 court was made final by the action of the Supreme Court. 
 
 Senator Owen. You do. not wish the committee to imderstand 
 that the Supreme Court passed upon the merits of any of these cases, 
 of course? 
 
 Mr. Field. None at all. I think that the only question before the 
 Supreme Court was the constitutionality of the act giving the lower 
 court jurisdiction. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And making the decision of the lower court, 
 a Federal court, final in those cases ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. There is the case of the O. Quinn family. 
 This is part of what is known as the W. C. Thompson case. They 
 were enrolled by action of the Interior Department; they were 
 enrolled first by the Choctaw Nation in 1896, about the same time 
 they applied to the Dawes Commission. Stewart, Gordon & Haley 
 wrote them that their record showed that the Dawes Commission 
 had enrolled them. They rested upon that. It turned out years 
 afterwards that the records of the Dawes Commission showed that 
 they had been denied, a stamped judgment, just stamped "Denied," 
 and so when the roils finally came up it appeared that opposite their 
 names in bhie pencil were the minutes: "Enrolled without authority 
 of law." 
 
 So they then made an application to the Interior Department to 
 correct that situation. The Interior Department, after a full con- 
 sideration, directed the Dawes Commission to enroll them and they 
 were enrolled. Subsequently the case went to the Attorney General 
 and he rendered an opinion that they were not entitled to enrollment. 
 That was upon a mere technicahty, now, that the Dawes Commission 
 had jurisdiction, and having refused to enroll them that became final, 
 because they did not appeal to the Federal court, although they have 
 been notified by the attorneys of the Choctaw Nation that they were 
 
 enrolled. ^ i • i • i 
 
 Senator La Follette. What is the evidence of their havmg been 
 
 notified by the attorneys ? , , . . , , 
 
 Mr. Field. The letter was produced. The letter is m the record. 
 They were subsequently, under the Attornev General's decision, 
 stricken from the roUs. They had taken allotments. A parallel 
 case went through the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court decided 
 
784 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 that that was an arbitrary disenrolknent — an arbitrary striking from 
 the rolls after rights had vested —and they were finally restored under 
 that decision. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What is their status now ? 
 
 Mr. Field. They are on the roll. 
 
 Senator Townsend. And entitled to this distribution ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Entitled to this distribution, but there are brothers and 
 sisters who made application at the same time they did who were 
 enrolled just as they were, who were born in the Choctaw Nation and 
 have lived there all their lives, who are still off of the rolls merelj^ 
 because their record did not reach the Secretary of the Interior until 
 the rush period in 1907. It got into the 2023, and they were disen- 
 roUed, or were refused enrollment. 
 
 I speak of these particular cases because they are samples of the 
 entire situation. There are several families situated just as these of 
 whom I have spoken are situated. 
 
 Senator Owen. I should like for you to name them, please. 
 
 Mr. Field. The others? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Field. There is the family of John Mitchell, the family of 
 Percival, William Percival, who is known as the Houston record, a 
 man by the name of J. H. Gamblin; also WiUis West, a full-blood 
 Indian woman; a family by the name of McCarty; one by the name 
 of McPheteridge; John Nail. One of these families, the McPheteridge, 
 was enrolled by Leo Bennett, who was Indian agent long prior to this 
 
 Suestion of division of lands when it was no inducement to be there, 
 [e was found upon the roU, but that roll did not get into the Dawes 
 Commission's hands until after they had completed their work, so 
 they are out. They were denied enrollment because their names 
 could be found on any tribal roU, yet they admitted that the roll 
 upon which their name appeared never was in the hands of the 
 commission. 
 
 Senator Townsend. It seems to me, Mr. Field, that you have made 
 a very strong prima facie case. Before you leave can you teU us, 
 in a few ininutes, what your recommendation is? Is there any way 
 this committee can do something and close this up so as to be sure 
 it will be finally settled ? 
 
 Mr. Field. It seems to me, if Congress should pass this kind of 
 provision: 
 
 That the Serretary o£ the Interior be, and he hereby is, authorized and directed to 
 add to the rolls of the Choctaw Tribe in Oklahoma the names of persons shown by tha 
 governmental records to be entitled to enrollment, irrespective of technical legal bars, 
 and to pay to each of said persons from the funds of said nation the sum of S2,080 in 
 lieu of allotment of land; and the said Secretary of the Interior is directed to make 
 no further disposition of moneys of said tribe until the enrollment and payment herein 
 provided for is completed. 
 
 It seems to me that would dispose of it. 
 
 Senator Townsend. That would dispose of these particular cases. 
 Can you state whether in your judgment that would include all of the 
 Indians who are entitled to go on the roUs of those two tribes and 
 therefore entitled to distribution ? 
 
 Mr. Field. I think it would positively, because of the fact that the 
 Interior Department made an investigation, as stated by Senator 
 Owen in the opening of this matter, two or three years ago and in 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 785 
 
 that investigation they reached only those who had never made an 
 application, so that they covered in that investigation those who had 
 no records, and this covers those who have records. 
 
 The number enrolled by the act of August 1 last was 316. The 
 number found by the department to be entitled to enrollment was 
 somethmg over 500, so that there have been some 200 lost oflF of that 
 list, or left off of it. They are, I think possibly all of them, if not all 
 of them, very nearly all of them, what are termed new-born freed- 
 men. The freedmen of the Choctaw Nation were entitled to enroll- 
 ment on the rolls of the tribe, but on a separate roll, and were en- 
 titled to 40 acres of land each under a special act of Congress passed 
 several years a^o. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They would not be entitled to $2,080 ? 
 
 Mr. Field. No, sir; if they were ever enrolled they would be en- 
 titled only to a proportionate value of an allotment, which would be 
 the proportion of 40 acres to 320 acres, or one-eighth. 
 
 Senator White. What do you mean by a freedman? 
 
 Mr. Field. Those colored people who had been slaves and went 
 into the nation in the early days as slaves, and were emancipated 
 there. 
 
 So far as the last clause of this suggested item is concerned that is 
 a matter that might be, of course, very easily shaped; but it does 
 seem that the first part of it, the part giving the Secretary jurisdiction 
 to enroll those shown by the governmental records to be entitled, 
 is only such a remedy as any court under the showing — under all the 
 facts — would give to any person who had ever been a Mtigant before it. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What wiU govern the Secretary of the Interior 
 in his determination as to who is entitled to go on that roU ? You say, 
 shall enroll those he finds. 
 
 Senator La Follette. By the governmental records, he says. 
 
 Senator Townsend. By the governmental records 1 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsexd. That record has been somewhat confused. 
 Shall he follow the Supreme Court rule or the citizenship rule. What 
 are we going to say to bim to be sure he put on names here that you 
 have suggested, for instance ? 
 
 Senator White. What is the governmental record 1 
 
 Senator Townsexd. Yes; what is going to govern him? 
 
 Mr. Field. The Supreme Court did not touch the facts, so that the 
 decision of the Supreme Court does not affect the governmental 
 records, they only related to the constitutionality. The district 
 court record was part of the governmental record. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Is not the citizenship court also a part ? 
 
 Mr. Field. The citizenship court is also a part of the governmental 
 records. 
 
 Senator Townsend. They do not agree ? 
 
 Mr. Field. No, sir; but the citizenship court judgments are nearly 
 all of them based upon a legal technicality, and this suggestion that 
 I make directs the Secretary to disregard legal technicahty and enroll 
 those shown by the records to be entitled as a fact. 
 
 Senator Lane. Equitably? 
 
 Mr Field. Equitably. 
 
 Senator Kobinson. What were the legal technicalities to which 
 you refer, Mr. Field? 
 
 82833 — "VOL 1 — ] 5 50 
 
786 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr Field The question of service upon the Choctaw Nation gen- 
 eraUy, as was contended by the attorneys for the tribe when service 
 was only made upon one nation. The question of whether a man s 
 name was found upon a tribal roll when his father's on his grand- 
 father's was found there, or possibly no one's was found there, when 
 he was known by all of the members of the tribe hvmg m his neigh- 
 borhood to be a Choctaw Indian, born to the allegiance of the tribe 
 and always having affliated with it, those are legal technicahties, 
 and upon those technicalities the majority of those people have been 
 
 I think I have not mentioned a case which, if it had been decided 
 upon its merits by the Dawes Commission, would not have been upon 
 the rolls to-day, not one. I do not believe there is a case that I have 
 mentioned that if the record were before any member of this com- 
 mittee but what he would say that person ought to be upon the roll. 
 
 Senator White. Why do you adopt the expression "governmental 
 records" instead of designating the records as the records of the 
 district court of the Indian Territory, or some other records ? 
 
 Mr. Field. As I first drew this I designated them as the records of 
 the Interior Department, but after having thought it over and after 
 the question of the rights if the Mississippi Choctaws was again 
 urged, I changed that to "governmental records," so that the Interior 
 Department might possibly dispose of the Mississippi question and 
 rid Congress of that. I made that change with tnat idea. There 
 has never been a square determination of the rights of the Mississippi 
 Choctaws. If there had been the possibilities are that their rights 
 would not be so strenuously urged now, and I thought that if the com- 
 mittee cared to adopt that wording that that might rid Congress of 
 that complicated situation. 
 
 Senator White. Do you represent the Mississippi Choctaws ? 
 
 Mr. Field. I do not. 
 
 Senator White. You do represent these others ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. And the admission of the Mississip])i Choctaws to 
 some extent would affect the recovery of your clients ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Adversely ? 
 
 Mr. Field. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follettb. Will the committee hear Mr, Ballinger for 
 a few minutes? 
 
 STATEMENT OF ME. WEBSTER BALLINGER, ATTORNEY, 
 WASHINGTON, D. C. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I 
 want to indorse practically everything said by Mr. Field. He is 
 always conservative in his statements, and in stating this case he 
 has been modest. The records present a stronger case than Mr. Field 
 has stated to you. 
 
 The amendment in the biU under consideration provides for a pay- 
 ment of SI 00 per capita to each enrolled Chickasaw. There are 6,332 
 Chickasaws on the rolls, thus necessitating a payment out of their 
 funds of $633,200. There are 20,690 Choctaws on the rolls, and the 
 bill provides for a payment of $200 per capita to the enrolled Choc- 
 
INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 787 
 
 taws, thus necessitating a payment out of their funds of $4,138,000. 
 Ihat will very materially deplete the funds on hand, so that if it is 
 found subsequently, and I say this advisedly. Senators, that when 
 r^i i^,^n inquiry into this matter it wUl be found— there is no 
 earthly doubt about it, and no one, so far as I know, denies it— it will 
 be found that there are many persons legally entitled to share in these 
 funds and who are the ward:s of this Government who have been 
 denied without a hearing or opportunity to be heard. I say that 
 nobody denies that aU the persons who are entitled to enrollment 
 have been enrolled. 
 
 No attorney for these tribes will rise before this committee and teU 
 you that he does not know of Indians in his own tribe who are entitled 
 to enrolhnent who have not been enrolled. I present to you the sep- 
 arate certificates of the governors of the Choctaw and of the Chick- 
 asaAy_ Nations, submitted to the department and to Congress in 1908, 
 certifying that Virginia Savage and her children were Chickasaws by 
 blood and were entitled to enrollment and asking the department and 
 Congress to enroll them. They are not now enrolled. There are the 
 certificates [indicating]. 
 
 Senator Townsend. About what volume are you speakiug ? 
 Mr. Ballingee. I am reading now from hearings before the Com- 
 mittee on Indian Affaks, House of Representatives, Sixty-first Con- 
 gress, second session, on H. R. 1&279, H. R. 19552, and H. R. 22830, 
 and the certificates that are referred to appear on page 35. They are 
 as follows: 
 
 Tishomingo, Ind. T. 
 Sie: I, Douglas H. Johnston, governor of the Chickasaw Nation, acting in my official 
 capacity as said governor, hereby respectfully recommend to the favorable considera- 
 tion of the honorable the Secretary of the Interior and the Congress of the United 
 States the petition of Virginia Savage and her children to be enrolled as citizens of 
 the Chickasaw Nation by act of Congress. I am thoroughly satisfied that these peo- 
 ple are possessed of Chickasaw blood and that they should be enrolled. Mrs. Savage 
 and her children have always been rec.ogm'zed and treated as Chickasaws by the 
 Chickasaw government. , 
 
 Very respectfully, 
 [seal.] D. H. Johnston, 
 
 Governor of the Chickasaw Nation. 
 The Secretary of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 
 KiNTA, Ind. T. 
 Sir: I, Green McCurtain, principal chief of the Choctaw Nation, acting in my 
 official capacity, as said principal chief, do hereby respectfully recommend to the 
 favorable consideration of the honorable the Secretary of the Interior and the Con- 
 gress of the United States the petition of Virginia Savage and her children to be 
 enrolled as citizens of the Chickasaw Nation by act of Congress. ' I am thoroughly 
 satisfied that these people are possessed of Chickasaw blood and that they should be 
 enrolled, ilrs. Savage and her children have always been recognized as Chickasaws. 
 Very respectfully, 
 [seal.] Green McCuetain, 
 
 Principal Chief Choctaw Nation. 
 The Secretary op the Interior, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 
 The records in the department, gentlemen of the committee, wiU 
 show not one but many such cases. There is no difficulty in ascer- 
 taining such cases as tins. In such cases there is no room for fraud. 
 Their rights are shown on the face of the record and are undisputed. 
 
788 INDIAN APPBOPBIATIOIS' BILL. 
 
 Let me call your attention to another fact, that the attorneys for 
 the Choctaw and the Chickasaw Nations, when these cases went into 
 the United States courts in the Indian Territory in 1897 and 1898, in 
 their answers to the petitions filed stated this, and this alone, m their 
 answer: 
 
 There is no evidence to show that this claim has ever been disputed by the Choctaw 
 Nation. 
 
 Senator Owen. If it would not disturb your argument, I should 
 like to ask you if it is not a fact that in the case of the Savage family 
 that they had moved out of the Chickasaw country and were not 
 known to the authorities at that time; that they had moved out and 
 that they had barred themselves under the Curtis Act ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I am very glad, Senator, that you asked me that 
 question because it will enable me to throw some light on it, and I 
 realize that the members of the delegation from Oklahoma have not 
 time to look into the records in these individual cases. But the facts 
 in that case are these as shown in her petition accompanying, which 
 were the certificates of the governors of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations : 
 
 Your petitioner, Virginia Savage, would respectfully state and show to the honorable 
 the Secretary of the Interior that she was born in the Chickasaw Nation, Ind. T., and 
 resided there for many years, and that she has never abandoned her home in the 
 Chickasaw Nation, although, on account of ill health, she has found it necessary to 
 live in Colorado for a number of years. 
 
 Your petitioner, Virginia Savage, would further state and show to the honorable 
 the Secretary of the Interior that her brotiier, Florence Cartel, is a duly enrolled and 
 approved citizen bj' blood of the Chickasaw Nation or Tribe of Indians, and his 
 name appears upon the approved roll of such citizens opposite No. 4911; that her 
 Bister, Ida Wlgley, is a duly enrolled and approved citizen by blood of the Choctaw 
 Nation or Tribe of Indians, and that her name appears as "Ida ^^'omack" opposite 
 No. 393 upon the final roll of such citizens. 
 
 Your petitioner, Virginia Savage, would further state and show to the honorable 
 the Secretary of the Interior that her uncle on the maternal side, and from whence 
 she obtains her Indian blood, James G. Allen, is a duly eiu:olled and approved citizen 
 by blood of the Chickasaw Nation or Tribe, of Indians and that his name appears 
 opposite No. 730 upon the final roll of such citizens. 
 
 Your petitioner, Virginia Savage, would further state and show to the honorable the 
 Secretary of the Interior that her uncle on the maternal side, and from whence she 
 obtains iier Indian blood, AVinfield Scott Allen, is a duly enrolled and approved citi- 
 zen by blood of the Chickasaw Nation or Tribe of Indians, and that his name appears 
 opposite No. 4942 upon the final roll of such citizens. 
 
 Your petitioner, Virginia Savage, would further state and show to the honorable the 
 Secretary of the Interior that hsr aunt on the maternal side and from which she obtains 
 her Indian blood, Kittie Howard (formerly Allen), is a duly enrolled and approved 
 citizen by blood of the Chickasaw Nation or Tribe of Indians, and that her name 
 appears opposite No. 1328 upon the final roll of such citizens. 
 
 Your petitioner, Virginia Savage, would further state and show to the honorable the 
 Secretary of the Interior that her cousin, Hon. Charles D. Carter (Congressman elect 
 from the fourth congressional district of the proposed State of Oklahoma), is a duly 
 enrolled and approved citizen by blood of the Chickasaw Nation or Tribe of Indians, 
 and that his name appears opposite No. 1527 upon the final roll of such citizens. 
 
 Mrs. Savage was born and reared in the Chickasaw Nation along 
 about 1893. She was taken iU with heart trouble and her husband 
 with puhnonary trouble and was compelled to go to Colorado Springs, 
 Colo. In 1899 she returned to her home in Wynne Wood, Ind. T. ; was 
 again taken ill. She went to the members of the commission, ex- 
 plained her situation, and was told to return at once to Colorado ; that 
 her rights and those of her children would be protected. She took 
 the train that night at 12 o'clock. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Is there a record of that? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 789 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir; and I think you will find that record 
 right m this document. She took the train at 12 o'clock that night 
 and went to Colorado Springs and there remained. When the act of 
 June 28, 1898, was passed it contained a provision "that no person 
 could be enrolled who had not theretofore removed to and made a 
 bona fide settlement in the Choctaw Nation." 
 
 Senator Townsend. That was the Curtis Act ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. That was the Curtis Act. Now, that provision, 
 when the law first went into effect, was construed -to mean that any 
 person entitled to be enrolled must have been physically present in 
 the Choctaw Nation on July 28, 1898, and under that ruling Choctaw 
 children who were in schools outside of the Choctaw Nation were 
 denied enrollment. Subsequently, when the matter came back before 
 the department, the department changed its ruling, but then there 
 was no time in which this case and many others that had been denied 
 imder the original ruling could be reconsidered. That is the way this 
 enrollment situation has been brought about, Senators. There can 
 be no fraud in such a case. The facts, I take it, are conceded by every- 
 one. It is only a question of an examination and investigation of the 
 records themselves to show the rights of the parties. 
 
 It has been stated, and of course I know the statement was 
 honestly but nevertheless mistakenly made to this committee, that 
 these people had had their day in court; or, if not their day in court, 
 that they had been afforded an opportunity to have their day in 
 court. Now, Senators, that is a mistake, a very great mistake 
 Let us see how these people had their day in court, and my limited 
 time will only permit me to deal with it briefly. 
 
 The first act of Congress passed on this subject was the act of 
 June 10, 1896 (29 Stat., 21). That act authorized the commission, 
 for 90 days after it passed, to receive applications for enrollment of 
 persons whose names were not on the tribal rolls, and within 90 
 days thereafter to adjudicate each application, in accordance with 
 the laws, customs, and usages of the tribes, not inconsistent with the 
 treaties with and laws of the United States. That act confirmed the 
 tribal rolls and authorized the commission to receive the applications 
 of those who desired their names added to the then existing rolls. 
 When the commission commenced its work under that law and dur- 
 ing its proceedings under that act it never had in its possession a 
 single tribal roll. Now, how could it add a name to the tribal roll 
 that it did not have in its possession ? There were, I think, 85,000 ■ 
 
 Senator La Follette. Where were the tribal rolls? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. The tribal rolls were in the possession of the tribal 
 authorities, and the tribal authorities refused to submit them to the 
 Dawes Commission, insistmg that the tribes alone had supreme con- 
 trol of their respective membership. The result of that was that the 
 Indian did not know whether his name was on a tribal roll or not. 
 The tribal authorities denied the commission's authority to demand 
 these tribal roUs and were insisting that they themselves were the 
 sole judges of their membership. 
 
 The Indian, not knowing whether his name was on a tribal roll or 
 not filed an application for enrollment, and the commission, not 
 having the tribal rolls, denied many applications of Indians well 
 known in the tribes and who had been enrolled by the tribal author- 
 ities. As a result of this confusion, applications involving the rights 
 
790 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 of 85,000 people in all of the Five Tribes were submitted to the 
 commission within 90 days after the passage of the act, which iiad 
 to be adjudicated within 90 days after the receipt of each apphca- 
 tion. It is a mathematical proposition. Senators; the commission 
 had only about two minutes in which to adjudicate m each apphca- 
 tion in conformity with the laws, customs, and usages of each ot the 
 Five Tribes not 'in confhct with the treaties with and laws ol the 
 United States. That was a physical impossibility, and the result 
 was that in most .of those cases the commission merely stamped the 
 apphcation "Denied." There was your first adjudication. We do 
 not think that was an adjudication. 
 
 Let us now come to the next law. I want to pass by that class of 
 cases Mr. Field spoke about, and that is a particularly meritorious 
 class. Let me follow down the other class. Congress reahzing that 
 the work had not been properly done under the act of June 10, 1876, 
 passed the act of June 28, 1898. By this act it directed the commis- 
 sion to go out and investigate all cases and to enroU every person 
 who was entitled to enrollment, specifically directing them to enroll 
 every person whose name was found on a tribal roll that had been 
 properly placed thereon. We are getting right now into the crux 
 of this controversy, the thing that has caused the confusion. 
 
 Let me go just one step further. By the act of May 31, 1900 (31 
 Stat., 221), it was provided: 
 
 That said commission shall continue to exercise all authority heretofore conferred 
 on it by law. But it shall not receive, consider, or make any record of any applica- 
 tion of any person for enrollment as a member of any tribe in Indian Territory who 
 has not been a recognized citizen thereof, and duly and lawfully enrolled or admitted 
 as such, and its refusal of such applications shall be final when approved by the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior. 
 
 Mr. Howell, in his report to the Secretary on this act, says in part: 
 
 The purpose of this act was to expedite the enrollment work. It was much better 
 calculated, however, to secure expedition than to permit of the enrollment of all who 
 were entitled to citizenship. The purpose of the act is plainly set forth in one of the 
 early reports of the Dawes Commission. It is understood in the department, and I 
 have been so informed on reliable authority, that one of the Commissioners to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes, contrary to the wishes of the department, secured the inser- 
 tion of this provision in said act of May 31, 1900. 
 
 Obviously, by virtue of thij act the tribal rolls became exceedingly important as 
 a jurisdictional basis in the making of the final rolls. Such importance should not 
 liave been given to the tribal rolls unless they were entitled to great credit and 
 respect. Notwithstanding this is true, consider what I have said hereinbefore con- 
 ■cerning the unlawful and unwarranted striking of names from the tribal rolls without 
 "notice for political, personal, and jurisdictional reasons. 
 
 It is also obvious that if the tribal rolls were to play such an important part in the 
 ■work that the commission should have been supplied with all of such rolls, yet it is 
 a fact that the commission did not obtain the important rolls until nearly three years 
 later. Furthermore, there were certain of such rolls which were never"obtained by 
 the commission, but which were secreted by parties in interest until after the enroll- 
 ment work closed. (S. Doc. 1139, 62d Cong., 3d sess., p. 119): 
 
 Remember, Senators, at that time the commission did not have 
 the tribal rolls in its possession. How, then, could it accept the 
 application of a person, even though his name was in a tribal roll, 
 if it did not have the tribal roll in its possession and had no knowl- 
 edge of it, and at that time the more important tribal rolls were not 
 in the possession of the commission ? 
 
 With your permission. Senators, I will ask that if there is any- 
 body in this room who disputes this proposition I should like for 
 him to rise. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 791 
 
 Senator Owen. I should like to suggest to the committee that 
 the fact that nobody rises does not confirm these statements made 
 by Mr. BaUinger in any way whatever. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I should hke to dispute it. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. I think I ought not to let that statement go with- 
 out challenge, so far as the Cherokees are concerned. The tribal 
 roUs were all turned over there, absolutely. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not want to contradict Mr. BaUinger as he 
 goes along, and for that reason I do not want to rise and interrupt 
 him every time. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I wish to apologize to the committee for rising here, 
 but I desire to state that from 1899 to 1907 I represented the Choctaw 
 Nation, and I think I am familiar with these matters. Mr. BaUinger 
 made three or four statements which are absolutely incorrect, and if 
 the conunittee wishes to hear from me I shall be glad to have an 
 opportunity of contradicting them. 
 
 Senator Robinson (presidSig). I think if I were you, Mr. BaUinger, 
 I would proceed with my statement. Your challenge caused the inter- 
 ruption that has come, and I suggest to you that we would have a 
 more orderly procedure if you were to proceed with your statement, 
 and if others wish to be heard later I presume we wUl hear them. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Senators, I merely wanted to find out whether 
 there was any controversy over that statement of fact. Let us just 
 pass one step further, and then I wiU come back and show from the 
 ofiicials records the accuracy and truth of my statement. 
 
 By the supplemental agreement, July 1, 1902, the rolls — that is, the 
 time in which application could be submitted — were closed. Only 
 applications of delinquents after the date of the ratification of that 
 agreement could be submitted for 90 days thereafter, and that agree- 
 ment was ratified September 25, 1902, and 90 days only remained in 
 which an apphcation could be submitted after that time. Therefore, 
 after December 25, 1902, no application coiUd be received by the 
 commission for enrollment, and prior to that time it could only 
 receive 
 
 Senator Owen. I shaU have to ask to be excused from further 
 attendance to-day, as I have an important engagement. 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. It could only receive the application of a person 
 whose name appeared on the tribal roUs. 
 
 Let us see now what roUs of the Choctaws and Chickasaws this com- 
 mission had in its possession on January 24, 1903, one month after 
 applications had been closed. I read now from a decision of the 
 assistant attorney, dated March 24, 1905, appearing in the Laws 
 Affecting the Five CivUized Tribes, 1893 to 1903, page 158, as foUows: 
 
 The report — 
 
 And it is speaking about the report now of the commission on this 
 
 matter — ■ 
 
 of January 24, 1903, in the case of Betty Lewis, above mentioned, is to the effect that 
 the commission has never been furnished any authenticated rolls of citizenf? of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes, and it has no possession or knowledge of any rolls of 
 their citizenship made during or prior to 1885. And the commission has never been 
 fiu-nished a roll prior to the last district payment roll of 1893, which the commission 
 uses, together with the 1896 census roll, as the basis for identification of applicants. 
 
 The commission thus had in its possession on January 24, 1903, 
 two tribal roUs. That same decision from which I read tells about 
 
792 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 the discovery of the other rolls. If you will turn to pages 141 to 147 
 and 192 to 209, you will find a minute description of the tribal rolls 
 that had not been turned over to the commission. 
 
 Mr. Howell, an officer of the Interior Department, in 1909, pursuant 
 to directions of the Secretary of the Interior, went to Oklahoma and 
 made an investigation. He found that there had been submitted to 
 the commission, after the rolls had been closed, a number of tribal 
 rolls; that is, after the date when an application could be made a 
 number of tribal roUs were delivered over by the tribal authorities, 
 and on those tribal roUs thus delivered up are the names of the persons 
 who are insisting that they have the right to be enrolled, or at least 
 a right to have their case heard. He found also that in 1908 and 
 after Congress had passed an act making it a criminal offense for any 
 of these rolls to be kept out or retained in the possession of an in- 
 dividual that the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish had sur- 
 rendered over to the commission a number of roUs which Mr. Howell 
 says were official rolls and ought to have been considered, and those 
 rolls were delivered up after March 4, 1907, and after the enrollment 
 work had been closed. 
 
 Senator La Follette. May I ask at that point, if it will not inter- 
 rupt you, to state whether this law firm who had possession of these 
 rolls is the firm that was employed by the nations to prevent enroll- 
 ment? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. They were the persons employed by the nations 
 in 1899. They are the same firm that secretly entered into a contract 
 with the nations to get people off of the rolls for a contingent fee. 
 
 Senator White. How much ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. A contingent fee of 9 per cent of the value of the 
 property to which they had been decreed entitled by the United States 
 courts, and that contract secretly entered into was never known to 
 exist, and its existence was denied until two or three years later and 
 was only admitted after they got the legislation creating the citizen- 
 ship court — ': — 
 
 Mr. Cornish. With the indulgence of the committee, I wish to say 
 that that statement is absolutely false; that contract was submitted 
 to the Secretary of the Interior for his approval 
 
 Mr. Ballin(Ter. I have the record before me. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. The contract itself immediately after its execution 
 was submitted to the Secretary of the Interior for his approval. He 
 did not see fit to approve it, and an act was passed later conferring 
 jurisdiction upon the citizenship court to consider the contract and 
 fix the amount. That stateinent is absolutely false. 
 
 Mr Ballinger. Mr. Cornish, I do not think that you ought to 
 indulge in that sort of language. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Only with the indulgence of the committee, of 
 course. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Mr. Cornish, if Mr. Ballinger declines to 
 yield 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I say, only with the indulgence of the committee; 
 but that statement is so false, so absolutely untrue 
 
 Senator White. It appears to me that more appropriate language 
 could be used in characterizing it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think so. More parliamentary language. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 793 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. I made that statement, and if I am in error it is 
 a great m]ustice to Mr. Cornish. If I am not in error then I ought 
 to have made it, because the time has come when we ought to have 
 some plam talk over these matters, and I have arrived at that point 
 where, if I am heard, I am going to lay bare the unvarnished facts. 
 
 Let us see whether or not this contract was submitted when made. 
 I read now from 
 
 Senator La Follettb. May I interrupt you again? You spoke 
 of some statute enacted by Congress imposing a penalty upon anyone 
 for retammg roUs and keeping them out of the possession of the com- 
 mission ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What made it necessary for Congress to 
 pass that act in order to uncover these rolls ? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. It was learned after March 4, 1907, that there were 
 such roUs in existence. When that fact became known a request was 
 made and a provision inserted in a bill that made it a criminal offense 
 for any person to retain those rolls in their possession, and those rolls 
 were then surrendered up. 
 
 I am now going to read to you what Mr. Howell, the official, says 
 about that; but if you will pardon me I want to settle this statement 
 here about this contract, for I wiU not knowingly do an injustice to 
 any man. 
 
 I read from Senate Document No. 387, Sixtieth Congress, first 
 session, a letter from the Secretary of the Interior, as follows : 
 
 Secretary's Office, 
 Department of the Interior, 
 Washington, D. C, March 12, 1908. 
 ******* 
 
 The records show the following facts: 
 
 The citizenship court was created under the act of July 1, 1902. Its jurisdiction 
 was continued by the act of March 3, 1903, and provision made for the completion 
 of its work on December 31, 1904. The records of the Indian Office show that the 
 court disposed of 256 cases involving the rights of 3,487 applicants. The court com- 
 pleted its work and went out of existence in December, 1904, in accordance with the 
 statute . 
 
 Early in 1903 the law firm of Mansfield, McMmray & Cornish submitted to this 
 department for approval a contract between it and the chief executives of the Choc- 
 taws and Chickasaws, under which contract the said firm of attorneys was to conduct 
 litigation for these two nations in matters connected with citizenship cases. The 
 contract provided that the compensation of the attorneys should be 9 per cent of the 
 value of the shares of tribal property which such of said so-called "court claimants," 
 as hereinafter defined, as may be refused allotment or distribution of tribal property 
 would have received in the event of allotment or distribution thereof to them, 
 whether for past or future services to this end, and for the purpose of fixing the value 
 upon which to compute the compensation of said attorneys the value of an allotment 
 was fixed at $4,800. On February 20, 1903, the Indian Office placed the following 
 indorsement on the contract and forwarded it to the Secretary for consideration: 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 
 Washington, February 20, 1903. 
 
 The within contract is hereby approved, subject to the following conditions and 
 modifications, to wit: 
 
 First. That the compensation of said attornej's shall be 5 per cent instead of 9 per 
 cent, as provided in said contract. 
 
 Second. The total compensation to be paid said attorneys for services rendered and 
 required, under said contract as herein modified, shall not exceed $250,000. 
 
 Third. That no part of said compensation shall be paid to said attorneys until the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw roll or rolls of all persons entitled to allotment or distribu- 
 tion of tribal property shall become final. 
 
794 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Fourth. The conditions and modifications subject to which this approval is given 
 must be fully accepted on or before March 1, 1903, or this approval will be without 
 
 ^^^"^^ W. A. Jones, _ 
 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs. 
 
 On the same day it was approved in the following language; 
 
 ■ E. A. Hitchcock, Secretary. 
 
 Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish were required to accept in writing the modified 
 approval of the contract. This they declined to do. Congress, by act of March 3, 
 1903 (32 Stet. L., 982), authorized the citizenship court to fix the compensation of 
 said attorneys. 
 
 The compensation fixed by the court was $750,000. 
 
 Let us get the date of that contract. You see when it was sub- 
 mitted for approval, Senators, "early in 1913." 
 
 Senator White. When was it made? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I am going to give you the exact date. 
 
 Senator White. You say it was approved? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. No, sir; it was never approved. Let me give 
 you the document, so if there ever is a question raised about this 
 matter you may have the document number. It is Senate Document 
 No. 372, Sixtieth Congress, first session, which contains a report of 
 the Attorney General to the Senate, transmitting a copy of this 
 contract. On page 5 of that document you will find when that con- 
 tract was entered into, to wit: "On this January 17, 1901." 
 
 It was acknowledged before an officer of a court at Sherman, 
 Tex., and outside of the jurisdiction of the Indian Territory. 
 
 I repeat my statement again that that contract was not submitted 
 for approval for two years after it was entered into and not until after 
 the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court was created by the act of 
 July 1, 1902; that it was not submitted to the department for ap- 
 proval until after that legislation was obtained, and that during that 
 time that contract was kept a secret. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Who were the parties to the contract you refer 
 to? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. The parties were : Gilbert W.Dukes, principal chief, 
 Choctaw Nation, on the part of the Choctaw Nation; Douglas H. 
 Johnston, governor of the Chickasaw Nation, on the part of the 
 Chickasaw Nation, parties of the first part, and Mansfield, McMurray 
 & Cornish, parties of the second part. 
 
 The department refused to approve that contract, but did agree to 
 approve the contract in a modified form with a limitation on it 
 limiting the fee not to exceed $250,000, and that they refused to 
 accept that modification, and that action of the department was taken 
 on February 20, 1903, and this firm of attorneys came to Congress and, 
 in an act that became the law of March 3, 1903, just 1 1 days afterwards, 
 secured the insertion of a provision in the Senate authoriziag the 
 Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court to fix the fee and thus taking 
 it out of the hands of the Secretary of the Interior. That is pretty 
 quick work. Senators. 
 
 Senator White. How much was that limit? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. $250,000. 
 
 Senator White. What would it have been without the limitation? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. I do not know. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 795 
 
 Senator La Follette. What did they finally get? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. This later act authorized the Choctaw-Chickasaw 
 citizenship court to fix the fee, and that court fixed their fee of 
 $750,000, $500,000 more than the Secretary said he would consent to. 
 
 These are all matters of record. If I come before you and make a 
 false statement it is so easy to check me up, and therefore it was that 
 a little while ago I asked whether or not anyone denied these state- 
 ments. 
 
 Let me read you as to how these rolls were obtained. I read from 
 the report of Mr. J. W. Howell, and I read from Senate Document No. 
 1139, Sixty-second Congress, third session, pages 142 to 143, under 
 the heading "The recently discovered rolls of 1874," as foUows: 
 
 It has always been supposed by the department and by the officials of the com- 
 mission and the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes that the 1885 roll v/as the 
 earliest roll in the Choctaw Nation. Time and again the commission endeavored to 
 find all of the rolls. Its painstaking efforts in this direction are set forth fully in report 
 of January 24, 1903, in the Bettie Lewis case, copy of which is inclosed as Exhibit J, 
 as well as the imperfect condition of the rolls and the careless methods followed in 
 caring for and preserving them. During the course of my recent investigation in 
 Oklahoma I discovered, however, that there was another roll in excellent condition 
 which was never delivered by the tribal authorities to the Commission to the Five 
 Civilized Tribes. This roll was not found in the archives of the Choctaw Nation 
 when the 1885 roll was discovered during the latter part of 1902. In the course of the 
 search then made a careful examination was conducted among the archives of the 
 Choctaw Nation. It now appears that some time during the enrollment work this 
 roll, with numerous other papers and records relating to citizenship, was removed 
 from the vaults of the Choctaw capitol building to the office of Messrs. Mansfield, 
 McMurray & Cornish, at South McAlester, Ind. T. This fact came to my knowledge 
 through an affidavit, inclosed as Exhibit AJ, dated November 21, 1908, executed 
 by William J. Thompson, of Pauls Valley, Okla., which affidavit was made at my 
 request following his oral statement to the same effect. It reads in part as follows: 
 
 "WhUe my case was pending I went to Tishomingo, and I talked with Mr. Cornish, 
 attorney for the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. I asked him where I could find 
 the records pertaining to my citizenship, and he said at Tuskahoma; and I went and 
 got the' national secretary, Mr. Wilson, and he showed me through the vault; and I 
 examined the records there, which were very few, but was told that Mr. Cornish had 
 them with him at South McAlester. I left Tuskahoma and went to South McAlester 
 to the office of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish and told the man in charge of the office 
 that Mr. Cornish had sent me to look through the records of the Choctaw Nation. He 
 looked surprised at first, and I told him who I was, and he then took me to a room at one 
 side of the office which was partly filled with boxes, and I went through a great many 
 of those records and opened box after box and found records pertaining to nati6nal 
 affairs — some of them pertaining to the net-proceed money. I looked further and 
 found that some records entitled an act of the Choctaw Council, together with the date, 
 all in writing. In searching through those papers I found a roll made in 1874 by Sheriff 
 S. Gardner, of Blue County, and also rolls of other counties; and in this roll of Blue 
 County of 1874 I found the name of my father, Giles Thompson, and all our family 
 except myself, as I was not born at that time, as heretofore stated. I also found in 
 searching over those records a large book about 8 or 10 inches wide and about 18 to 20 
 Inches in length; and it had a list of names, among which I found a list of persona 
 entitled, as heirs of Giles Thompson, to receive money from the Choctaw Nation. I 
 also saw the name of Samuel C. Wall as the heir of Noah Wall in the same book. I 
 brought the census roll of 1874 and those books with me to Kiowa, where my nephew, 
 Mr. Ward, was then senator, and told him what I had done, and he said it would be 
 all right. 
 
 " On my way home on the train taking the records with me I met Mr. Cornish and I 
 told him that I went to Tuskahoma but found no records there pertaining to citizen- 
 ship, and that I went to his office and told his help there that he had sent me over 
 and that 1 had found the records there, and Mr. Cornish was very angry, turned very 
 white, and said to me that he was surprised that the man m his office had permitted 
 me to go through the records and that I was the only person who had ever gone 
 through those records regarding citizenship. I told him I didn't think that I had 
 done anything wrong, but that I thought 1 was entitled to see the records pertaining 
 to my father's citizenship in this county; that that was all I wanted, and that if 1 
 
796 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 was Bot entitled to citizenship I did not want it; all I wanted was a fair trial and I 
 thought that he should allow me that. So we talked for some time and I told him that 
 I didn't think that he should be mad at me, and he said that he was not so mad at me 
 as he was at his help in his office. Mr. Johnston was on the tram with me and Mr. 
 Cornish got up and went over and sat down with him and I went on to iishommgo 
 to see my attorney, Mr. O. W. Patch ell, and I showed him the rolls and books and 
 told him what I had done. Mr. Cornish was very angry upon learning what I had 
 done and he remarked that this put him in a very embarrassing position. Afterwards 
 Mr. Patchell and I had a talk with Mr. Cornish in Tishomingo and he made the same 
 statement about the books that he had to me; that is, that it put him m a venr em- 
 barrassing position for me to go to Tuskahoma and then for me to go to his office at 
 South McAlester and find the records there in place of Tuskahoma. Mr. Patchell and 
 I told Mr. Cornish that all we cared about the books and records was for the informa- 
 tion in them concerning my father and that we thought they should be made a part 
 of the record, and he then agreed to have the national secretary to certify to those 
 records, and, accordingly, we turned them over to him. I don't think that Mr. Cornish 
 ever carried out his promise. This occurred in September or October, of 1904, as 
 nearly as I can remember. 
 
 At the time this affidavit was made I was pursuing my investigation at Pauls Valley, 
 Okla. It occurred to me, however, that inasmuch as section 13 of the act of May 27, 
 1908 (35 Stat., 312), required all persons having the custody of tribal property, includ- 
 ing papers, documents, records, etc., to deliver the same to the Secretary of the Inte- 
 rior prior to July 31, 1908, it might prove possible to checkup the statement of Mr. 
 Thompson by reference to the records of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes 
 received by virtue of said act. Accordingly, upon my return to Muskogee I requested 
 Commissioner Wright to permit me to see the papers which were delivered to him by 
 Messrs. Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish. With little difficulty we found the rolls 
 referred to in the affidavit of Mr. Thompson, and I made a minute description of the 
 same. I found that the roll in question was made in 1874. Upon the roll for Blue 
 County I found the name of Giles Thompson, father of William J. Thompson, which 
 confirmed the statement made in the latter's affidavit. There were rolls for several 
 other counties besides. The papers upon which the names were recorded constituted 
 rolls in fact as well as in name, being made up of sheets of paper pasted together so as 
 to form long strips, which when completed, were rolled up like maps or wall paper. 
 When unrolled these strips would reach across a good-sized room. Besides these 
 rolls there were other important documents and records relating to citizenship, which 
 were delivered by Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish pursuant to said act of May 27, 
 1908. For my field notes on the recently discovered Choctaw roll of 1874, see Ex- 
 hibit B. 
 
 Mr. Howell then says: 
 
 It needs no argument to show that the rolls and records retained by said attorneys 
 constituted material evidence which should have been considered in connection 
 with many cases. That this was true no one knew better than they. (Meaning Mans- 
 field, McMurray, and Crrnish.) In view of the said act of May 31, 1900, the effect, 
 because of jurisdictional reasons, can not be overestimated. There is another aspect 
 of the matter which should be determined: Was there, by reason of the withholding 
 of said records, a fraud worked upon the Government and upon individual appli- 
 cants? 
 
 That is what an officer of the Interior Department says about those 
 rules, gentlemen. That was the origin of this protracted controversy. 
 I want to here say to you, Senators, that I believe this is the first op- 
 portunity since those rolls were closed on March 4, 1907, that I have 
 had to come before a Senate committee to tell you the facts relative 
 to this matter. And I want to say to you further, Senators, that if 
 you will go fully into this matter and learn the facts, there is not a 
 man sitting on this committee, not a single man, that would not vote 
 to authorize a further investigation by seme honest tribunal into 
 this matter. 
 
 Following it further, the Choctaw Nation has told you through its 
 attorneys, that the Government was at fault; that it readily assented 
 to the enrollment of aU those persons who were entitled to enrollment. 
 I tell you that the real fault was with the Indian officials and their 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 797 
 
 attorneys. I need not remind you of the fact that Congress took 
 charge of these estates because of the corruption and venality of the 
 Indian officials — the Dawes Commission reported to you, for in- 
 stance, in its reports of 1894 and 1895, that practically all of the 
 valuable lands of the tribes were being held by a few individual 
 adopted white and mixed-breed members, to the exclusion of the 
 great body of the real Indians. Those same men had charge of the 
 making of the tribal roUs and when the poor fuU-blood Indian went 
 to his tribal council to be enrolled he was confronted with this 
 Choctaw law, with which he must comply as a condition precedent: 
 
 An act requiring the manner of application for citizenship. 
 
 Be it enacted hj the General Council of the Choctaw Nation assembled, That hereafter 
 all claimants for citizenship in the Choctaw Nation shall pay into the national treasury 
 the sum of $100 for each person asked to be adopted, and that no petition shall be 
 entertained by the committee for citizenship unless accompanied by the national 
 treasurer's receipt as above required, and that this act shall take effect and be in 
 force from and after its passage. 
 
 Approved November 6, 1888. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Was that a law passed by the tribe, Mr. Bal- 
 linger? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. Yes, sir; that is one of the tribal laws. 
 
 Senator Robinson. That was not passed by Congress, then ? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. No; Congress would not knowingly pass such an 
 atrocious act. 
 
 Senator Lane. It sounds like it might have been. 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. Congress has unwittingly passed a number of acts 
 the authors of which did not know or realize the real effects of that 
 has tended to bring about this condition. This was a Choctaw law 
 and is dated November 6, 1888. 
 
 Senators, just think of the effect of that. When the fuU-blood 
 Indian went to the tribal council to be enrolled on these rolls made 
 in 1893 and 1896, just as a number of them did whose cases are con- 
 tained in that document (S. Doc. 1139, 62d Cong., 3d sess.), they were 
 told to go and pay $100 per head into the treasury of the Choctaw 
 Nation and their cases would then be taken up. They could not pay 
 the $100 and their cases were never heard, and those fuU-blood Indi- 
 ans are hving there in that Territory to-day, in that tribe to-day, and 
 are denied citizenship because under the laws of Congress the tribal 
 roU was made jurisdictional. The property — the grant was made for 
 the benefit of the fuU blood as much as the mixed blood, but what is 
 the effect? The effect is that the mixed blood has got the property 
 and the fuU blood sits in that country praying to God that his guar- 
 dian wiU redeem its promise at some time and protect him. I say 
 the tinie has come for plain talk on these matters. 
 
 The same is true with reference to that citizenship court. If the 
 committee will permit me I wiU tell that story for a few moments. 
 Under the act of June 10, 1896, provision was made that every person 
 aggrieved by the decisions of the commission might appeal their 
 cases to the United States districts courts, and that the decision of 
 the United States district court should be final. It was written into 
 the law, and so decreed. Appeals were allowed from the decisions 
 of the commission in all of the Five Civihzed Tribes. In the Cherokee, 
 Creek, Seminole, Choctaw, and Chickasaw Tribes. Appeals were 
 
798 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 taken and the judgments of the United States Court in all Cherokee, 
 Creek, and Seminole cases were made final and were never dis- 
 turbed. But what happened with reference to the judgments m the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw cases? 
 
 After those judgemnts were entered and the Indian went mto pos- 
 session of his property, under a law that declared that judgment final, 
 invested, in many instances, as much as $4,000, $5,000, or $6,000 mi- 
 proving his property, building substantial homes; with happy fami- 
 lies, five years later and in 1902, a provision was inserted in the sup- 
 plemental agreement approved July 1, 1902, just before it passed 
 the Senate, creating what is known as the Choctaw-Chickasaw citi- 
 zenship court, with officers, clerks, attaches, appropriations for ex- 
 penditiu-es, and so forth. The act provided that there should be 
 summoned before the citizenship court, which was a legislative tri- 
 bunal and not a court, 10 representative defendants, to be selected 
 by the attorneys for the tribes, and the court was to determine two 
 questions of law, viz, one, Had the United States courts, under the 
 act of June 10, 1896, erred in holding that when an appeal was taken 
 from the commission to the United States courts that they could con- 
 sider the case de novo, or was the court limited to the record made be- 
 fore the commission ? That question had beem therefore directly in 
 issue in the case of Stevens v. The Cherokee Nation, and if you will 
 examine the decision you will find it was decided against the conten- 
 tion of the nation, that the United States courts did have the right to 
 pass upon those cases de novo. 
 
 The second proposition was as to whether or not service in a case 
 appealed by a Choctaw from the decision of the commission should 
 not have been made upon the officer of the Chickasaw Nation as well 
 as the officer of the Chocktaw Nation. That question was not directly 
 passed on in Stevens v. Cherokee Nation, but it was indirectly passed 
 on. Ten representative defendants were brought into citizenship 
 court and these two questions were presented to the tribunal for 
 decision, and that tribunal promptly held that 
 
 Senator Townsend. You are talking about the citizenship court? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I am talking about the citizenship court. The 
 citizenship court promptly held that the United States court had no 
 right to try the cases de novo; that service should have been made 
 upon both nations instead of one, and therefore all of the judgments 
 rendered in the United States courts were void in Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw cases. 
 
 Senator White. Can you tell me whether the Chickasaws appeared 
 in that district court? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir; by attorneys in every instance. 
 
 Senator White. What was the use then of process ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I beg your pardon, Senator, you asked me if the 
 Chickasaws appeared in the Choctaw case ? 
 
 Senator White. In these cases you speak of, whether they ap- 
 peared there by counsel, where they say they ought to have been 
 served by notice ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. In a Choctaw case the attorneys for the Choctaw 
 Nation appeared and in a Chickasaw case the attorneys for the 
 Chickasaw Nation appeared. 
 
 Senator White. That answers my question. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 799 
 
 Mr. Field. But the court held at that time that there was no 
 c^uestion of property then before the court; that it was a mere ques- 
 tion of citizenship, and that the property rights might follow or might 
 not foUow thereafter. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I understood your statement clearly, but now 
 I understand you, Mr. Ballinger, that so far as the fact is concerned 
 there were no Chickasaw rights embarrassed by lack of counsel in any 
 case affecting them? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. None whatever. They were all represented. I 
 want to say to you further about that. Senator, that the Chickasaws 
 were at that time represented by one of the ablest attorneys in that 
 country, Mr. W. B. Johnston. He is weU known in that country 
 as an able lawyer, as able in my judgment as we have in the city of 
 Washington, or as you wiU find in the large cities ; a man of the highest 
 integrity and honor. No man who knows him, although he is a bitter 
 partisan, has ever assailed or questioned his honor or his ability. 
 The Choctaws were represented by Judge C. B. Stewart and Mr. 
 Gordon. Judge Stewart was formerly the law partner of Senator 
 Bailey, and is, I think, probably the foremost lawyer in all that 
 country. Those two, the firm of Stewart & Gordon, were attorneys 
 for the Choctaws, and W. B. Johnston was the attorney for the 
 Chickasaws at the time these judgments in the United States courts 
 were entered. 
 
 Senator White. Then the Chickasaws were represented? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Always in every Chickasaw case. 
 
 Senator White. Chickasaw case, I see. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir. I doubt whether there ever was such 
 an inducement held out to a tribunal to decide a case one way as was 
 held out to the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court. 
 
 If the ■ Choctaw-Chickasaw citizen court held that the United 
 States courts had proceeded regularly, then it would have auto- 
 matically passed out of existence. 
 
 Senator Townsend. That court was a sort of emergency court ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir. It automatically went out of business 
 and the judges and aU the officers went back home. If, on the other 
 hand, it held that the judgments of the United States courts were 
 invalid, it had work for some years to come with lucrative salaries 
 and valuable patronage. I want to say to you. Senators, that never 
 to my knowledge has any legislative act placed such a temptation as 
 that before any tribunal — ^judicial, quasi judicial, or otherwise. The 
 effect was that the court found — that is, the Choctaw-Chickasaw 
 citizenship court found — that the United States court had erred, and 
 it proceeded then to an adjudication of these cases de novo. 
 
 I am not going to say anything, Senators, about the conduct of that 
 court. Two of its members are dead. I know absolutely nothing of 
 my own personal knowledge, but I am going to speak from the official 
 records of their decisions. That court came into being upon the 
 assumption that great frauds had been perpetrated in the United 
 States courts; that as a result of perjury and false swearing the 
 judgments had been obtained in the United States courts. Senators, 
 if that were true they had an adequate remedy, as every lawyer who 
 sits around this table knows. Within a reasonable time after such 
 knowledge of fraud came into their possession they could have gone into 
 
800 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 the United States courts and reopened those judgments and have them 
 purged. They did not select that remedy. They secured the crea- 
 tion of this special tribunal. When we come to examine the decisions 
 of this special tribunal we find it did not base its decisions in most 
 cases upon a question of fraud, but upon a whoUy different ground. 
 
 It was held that by the treaty of September 27, 1830, it was 
 incumbent upon the Indian to remove within a reasonable time 
 thereafter. It was not foimd by the court what was a reasonable 
 time, but it was held that removal in 1847 was not within a reason- 
 able time, although the official records show that the Government of 
 the United States was removing those Indians down to 1852. They 
 held in these cases that the Indian who removed in 1887 had not 
 removed within the time, although the Choctaw Nation was at that 
 time memorializing Congress to move them and inviting them to 
 come. And there never was an act of Congress that fixed a date 
 upon which the Indian had to be in the nation in Indian Territory 
 until the act of June 27, 1898, and that provided that persons en- 
 rolled must have theretofore established a bona fide residence within 
 the tribe prior to the date of the act. If the Indian had been there 
 on June 27, 1898, he would have been entitled to enrollment under 
 that law. But this tribunal held otherwise. 
 
 There may be some exceptions taken to that. Senators, and for 
 that reason let me read you a few brief extracts from the decisions: 
 
 In the case of Zora P. Lewis v. Choctaw Nation, Tishomingo 
 Docket No. 58, the court held: 
 
 This court has ah'eady hsld in numerous cases that members of the Choctaw Nation 
 residing east of the Mississippi River, in order to acquire any interest in the tribal 
 lands and properly west of the Mississippi River in accordance with the provisions 
 of article 3 of the treaty of 1830, and with the citations and provisions contained in 
 the grant by the Government of the United State? to the Chictaw Indians, of the 
 lands west of the Mississippi River, must have removed within a reasonable time after 
 the making of said treaty and occupy the lands ceded to the nation in this Territory, 
 which it is evident that these peo]ile did not do. 
 
 It surely can not be contended that the r^^moval of a Ohoctaw Indian from the State 
 of ilissLssippi to the Choctaw Nation in the Indian Territory in 1874. 44 years after the 
 treaty was made and 41 years after the time fixed by said treaty when they should 
 remove, is a reasonable time in which to make said change of location and acquire the 
 rights they now claim they are entitled to. 
 
 There is the Indian who removed in 1874. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you contend there should be no atten- 
 tion at aU paid to that provision of the treaty requiring removal ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Not prior to June 28, 1898; let me make that plain 
 to you, Senator. Under the treaty of 1830 the provision with refer- 
 ence to removal was inserted at the instance of the Government and 
 represented a governmental policy. It is a question that did not 
 affect the Indian over in Oklahoma. If the Indian remained out- 
 side of the tribe, the tribe in Oklahoma sustained no injury, but 
 reaUy derived a benefit, for the tribal Indian received the fuU enjoy- 
 ment of all the lands, the usufruct of the land. It did not prejudice 
 the Indian's right in Oklahoma if the man over there did not remove. 
 It was a question of governmental policy which the Government 
 could have enforced at any time, but the Government never enforced 
 it, but, on the other hand, in every treaty with these people, running 
 on down to the treaty of 1866, the last treaty, it invited them to 
 come; it made provision for them when they did come. But in 1898 
 the Government said that, with the exception of the Mississippi 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 801 
 
 Choctaws no one should be recognized who had not theretofore 
 removed to and made bona fide settlement in the tribe. 
 
 Senator- White. That was not binding on the Mississippi Choctaws ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Absolutely not, Senator, and I want to say this 
 because I am sure there is a wrong impression about the Mississippi 
 Choctaws. I want to say that no man who is a lawyer, or no man who 
 can conceive and appreciate the effect of language, can examine the 
 treaties with the Choctaw Indians — the treaty of 1820 and the treaty 
 of 1830 and the subsequent treaties — without being impressed with 
 the almost certainty that they have, if not a legal, certainly an equi- 
 table, right m this property. Remember, an Indian never acquires 
 a legal right to property until it is carved out and allotted to him. 
 He never has a legal right enforceable in the courts until that is 
 done. 
 
 Senator White. He is not capable? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. There is no question. Senator, that the Missis- 
 sippi Choctaws have an equitable right in the tribal property, and 
 no man who looks into the matter fairly and honestly will deny it. 
 
 Let me cite you one or two other decisions of this citizenship court 
 on this same question. I read now from the decision of the citizen- 
 ship court, pronounced by Judge Adams in the case of Joseph C. 
 Moore et al., in Senate Document No. 1139, Sixty-second Congress, 
 third session, page 323, as follows: 
 
 The facts in this case appeal very strongly to me, and I wish I could see (and when 
 I say "I," I mean the court), the court wishes it could see, some way in which to 
 admit these people. It is true the treaty of the Choctaws and Chickasaws with the 
 Government in 1S37 does not specify any time in which these pfeople shall come here. 
 Taking the history of all these treaties and the legislation affecting the Indians, you 
 can't shut your eyes to the proposition that the great object of the Government was 
 to remove these Indians here; and in my opinion if there had been no provision in 
 any of the treaties as to when l^iey should come here they would have been required 
 to come within a reasonable time. As to the ancestor and ancestress of these claim- 
 ants, there is no question but that Mrs. Moore was an Indian who lived in Mississippi, 
 and was a Chickasaw Indian. Leaving there they moved to Tennessee, where tiey 
 remained awhile, and then moved on to Arkansas and died. If they had come to 
 the Territory in a reasonable time we would be of the opinion that they would be 
 entitled to admission. Having failed in this, their application is denied. 
 
 In the case of A.' O. MaUory (S. Doc. No. 1139, 62d Cong., 3d sess., 
 p. 432). 
 
 The holding of the citizenship court was repudiated by the Assistant Attorney 
 General for the department in an elaborate opinion rendered February 19, 1906, in 
 the leading case of James S. Long et al., wherein, after citing the decisions of the 
 United States courts on this point, the Attorney General says: 
 
 "On the other hand is the case of Mrs. A. O. Mallory etal., November 28, 1904, wherein 
 a Choctaw born in 1843 in Sfississippi, living there until 1894, removed to the nation 
 and thereafter resided therein. The Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court held that 
 the treaty of 1S30 imposed an obligation to remove from the State upon all who did 
 not claim benefit of the fourteenth article, and that such removal must have been 
 "within a reasonable time." What was a reasonable time was not defined, but it 
 was held that remoA-al in 1894 was not within a reasonable time, and enrollment was 
 denied. Judicial constructions are thus at variance, and of the two the first appears 
 the"better reason and supported by the historic facts." 
 
 (Thereupon, at 1.30 o'clock p. m., the committee adjom-ned until 
 Saturday, February 20, 1915, at 10 o'clock a. m.) 
 
 82833 — ^VOL 1 — 15 51 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 FEBRUARY 20, 1915. 
 
 The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, Robinson, Thomp- 
 son, Owen, White, La FoUette, Page, Gronna, and Townsend. 
 
 PATTVrENTS OF INTEREST TO OSAGE TRIBE OF INDIANS. 
 
 The Chairman. On page 66 of the bill, line 1, there is the follow- 
 ing amendment : 
 
 The payments of Interest, royalties, or other trust funds becoming due from 
 time to time to any incompetent individual member of the Osage Tribe of 
 Indians under any law may be withheld, in the discretion of the Secretary of 
 the Interior, or the funds may be used for the benefit of such Indian or his 
 heirs, under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may 
 prescribe : Provided, That no part of said f mids shall be paid out on account 
 of any usurious obligation or contract. 
 
 Mr. Kellogg, who is present, advises me that his tribe, the Osage 
 Tribe of Indians, is very much opposed to that amendment, and 
 states three Senators told him they were ^oing to make a point of 
 order on it. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Of course, I do not Iniow whether we are 
 going to continue this joint commissiicm to investigate Indian affairs, 
 but if it is continued the commission is going t© visit that .tribe and is 
 going to investigate some of those matters, and I feel personally that 
 it would be a good thing to leave that out until we have investigated 
 the conditions. Of course, if the commission is going to be continued, 
 I think it ought to be investigated anyway. 
 
 Senator Page. The objectionable part consists of the last three 
 lines ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. What is the objection to that paragraph ? 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. Mr. Chairman, I will state that I have received 
 telegrams and letters from prominent members of the Osage Tribe, 
 who are personal friends of mine-^it is not my tribe, but my wife's 
 tribe 
 
 The Chairman. I beg your pardon. 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. As I have said, I have received letters and telegrams 
 from them begging us to come here and ask you Senators not to 
 insert that dause. There are 680,000 acres of oil leases to be put 
 through out there in a short time, and there is only one member of 
 the Osage council who is a competent person. It seems that the 
 Osage Tribe and the counsel for the tribe are at loggerheads and 
 
 803 
 
804 INDIAN APPSOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 haA-e been for a long time, and they feel they are being taken ad- 
 vantage of at this time before the joint commission comes there in 
 having this legislation put upon the books. Mr. John Palmer, who 
 Senator Owen knows very well, is one of the members protestmg 
 very strongly against this." He is an attorney, and while he is compe- 
 tent himself J and has his competency papers, there are a great many 
 Indians there who are competent Avho have ne\'er asked for their 
 competency papers, which include their patent in fee. This is going 
 to work a hardship on those people if it is done. 
 
 Senator Page." In what Avay is the hardship going to work? 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. Because with respect to the people who are perfectly 
 competent to handle their own affairs, they must be handled through 
 the Interior Department and their moneys paid out through the 
 Interior Department. 
 
 Senator Page. Do they not have to pay it out anyway ? 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. No, sir ; all these payments are made direct to them. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are those the Indians who are given enor- 
 mous royalties on the oil land ? 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Quarterly ? 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And they are paying as high as 50 to 75 
 per cent interest. for loans? 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. As high as 10,000 per cent, according to the state- 
 ment that has been made here by Senator Robinson. 
 
 Senator La Foj^lette. I think this provision was gotten up by the 
 Indian Office at the request of several persons after these facts came 
 out, just as a temporary stop to that robbing of these Indians that is 
 going on down there by the loan sharks. 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. If you knew the conditions there as well as I do — 
 and I may say that I have spent months on that reservation — -you 
 would laiow that it has nothing to do with those loan sharks. Those 
 people are in debt the whole time. These funds are paid out direct 
 to those loan sharks; there is no question about that, and if the joint 
 commission goes down there, as I understand from Senator Town- 
 send's remarks this morning they will, I think, as the Osages do, 
 that it would be better that this matter be held up pending the in- 
 vestigation and their report to Congress next session. 
 
 Senator La Follette. How many thousands of dollars do you sup- 
 pose will be squeezed out of these poor people in the meantime? 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. There will be nothing squeezed out by this legisla- 
 tion being dropped. It will be squeezed out anyway. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Then it is not the provision that I thought 
 it was. The Indian Office agreed to draw a provision, and I sup- 
 posed that this was the one. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I introduced an amendment to this provision 
 forbidding the payment of any part of this fund on any usurious 
 obligation or contract. 
 
 Senator Owen. That might be done without involving the other. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the proposition you make? 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. As I have stated, I have received telegrams and let- 
 ters from different members of the Osage Tribe in the last three or 
 four days, and it seems that the Muskogee Times Democrat pub- 
 Jished this provision, and it has been widely circulated in Pawhuska. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 805 
 
 1 ^ave a good many friends down there among the half bloods and 
 full bloods, and they have written and telegraphed here asking me to 
 bring this up before the committee. They have informed me that 
 they have telegraphed Senator Owen upon the subject. 
 
 Senator Page. Is it not possible, if not probable, that those let- 
 ters and telegrams are being prompted by the loan sharks ? 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. Absolutely not, because the people who have sent 
 them are absolutely against the loan sharks. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. How do you know that they understand the 
 provision? Can you point out an objection to the provision? We 
 have determined the matter upon that basis— the basis of the real 
 objection to it. This is intended to protect them; it is not intended 
 to oppress them. We were impressed with this fact — the evidence 
 disclosed conditions existing there which require that something 
 should be done rather than to sit still and allow those conditions to 
 go on without an effort to check them. 
 
 Senator Townsend. This is a matter that came to me last even- 
 ing — I do not know whether it is reliable or not — ^but it is claimed 
 that this provision was going to make it easier to get the money of 
 these Indians; that this money would be used to pay debts which 
 had been contracted before, even though it says it is for the benefit 
 of the Osage Indians, and they claim that it is not necessary for them 
 to have the money to pay the debts — to pay some unconscionable ones, 
 too — that have been contracted heretofore for things which never 
 would have been purchased, and which they "never should have been 
 permitted to purchase, and I had felt under the statement, that it 
 was a rather fruitful source of investigation to know what is being 
 done with these Indians' money, and what it is proposed to do with it 
 out there, along certain lines that have been suggested here. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. But the trouble is that the payments are now 
 being made without any restrictions. The law requires the Secre- 
 tary to make the payment now and he is just piling it in by hun- 
 dreds of thousands of dollars without any restriction whatever, 
 and it is going to waste entirely. I do not see how anybody, in 
 view of the circumstances there, would think that it is not some 
 improvement over the present provision. The existing law not only 
 permits but requires the Secretary to pay out of these funds without 
 regard to competency and without regard to the character of the 
 obligation. The law, as was pointed out here, with respect to usury 
 in Oklahoma puts the whole burden on the person who has been 
 imposed upon by the usurious contract. 
 
 Senator Geon'na. And the practice of charging these scandalous 
 usurious rates of interest never will be stopped until it is stopped 
 by the department. 
 
 Senator Townsend. That does not make any difference. If he 
 pays it we could investigate the matter just the same. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Of course, it would not prevent you from 
 going into the subject. This paragraph gives discretion to the 
 Secretary of the Interior so that any case of hardship could be taken 
 
 care of. • i ■-• i. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Yes. The condition now is that even it he 
 knows the Indians are going to pay it on the obligation, as it ought 
 not to be paid, he has to pay it anyhow. He has no discretion. 
 
806 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think he apprehends that it will be withheld 
 permanently, or for a long while. 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. I think that is what they apprehend. 
 
 Senator Page. A provision for not exceeding two years would 
 probablv cover that— may be withheld not exceeding two years. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I think this provision is a protection to the 
 Indians. 
 
 Senator Townsexd. I do not think it will make any difference 
 with respect to the investigation. 
 
 Senator La Follette. If we happen to overlook it we would have 
 the same trouble again. Now, if they can show at the end of two 
 years that it is all right 
 
 Senator Towxsend. Of course, I think it is subject to a point 
 of order which will probably be made against it. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Mr. Carter, who sits here, thinks it is a good 
 thing; he thinks that should go in the bill. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think the people there who are engaged in 
 these usurious transactions do not want any restrictions thrown 
 around this matter. They probably inspired the enactment of this 
 legislation originally that denied to the Secretary any discretion in 
 withholding the payment of these enormous sums. 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. I do not think there is any question about that. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. There are conditions that exist there which 
 have been disclosed here, which may be briefly stated as follows; 
 According to the statement of the superintendent of the reservation 
 himself — Mr. Carroll — those who loan money to these incompetent 
 Indians have the common practice of charging them enormous rates 
 of usury, ranging from 40 per cent to 10,000 per cent, and those who 
 only charge 40 per cent are regarded as philanthropists and are held 
 up as examples worthy of imitation by good people. This condition is 
 made possible only by the fact that the existing law passed by Congress 
 requires the Secretary to pay those funds over and gives him no 
 discretion in the matter as to how they shall be applied. That is the 
 complaint that he makes. The abuse is admitted, and the cause of it 
 is apparent. This provision, simply as to incompetent Indians, vest'' 
 him with discretion in the payment of this fund, and at the same tim" 
 provides that under no condition can any part of the fund be used li- 
 the payment of usurious obligations. But just as sure as you ai\ 
 born the inspiration of the protest against that provision comes from 
 the men who want to continue the abuse. It could not have any 
 other origin. Of course, they may have had the provision misstated 
 to them; they may not understand what it means. But that is an 
 honest provision. It is a provision which no man can say is unfair 
 or unjust. Shall we, as guardians of the Indians, compel the ad- 
 ministrative officers of this Government to continue the practices 
 which have become a national scandal, and must we sit here, after the 
 evidence has disclosed those conditions and take no action merely 
 because some persons who are either misguided or who willfaiUy mis- 
 represent the conditions, appeal for a continuation of the old order? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think if you will put that statement into 
 the Congressional Record on the floor of the Senate no Senator will 
 make a point of order on it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I will put it there. If any objection to this 
 provision can be shown, or if there is any reason why it will make 
 
INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 807 
 
 r conditions worse than they are, I will vote to strike it out;, but I am 
 not going to sit here when these conditions are brought to the at- 
 tention of Congress and not even try to stop them. 
 
 Senator OvraN. I move to insert, in line i, after the word " with- 
 held," the words "not exceeding two years," so that these funds, 
 ^yhen they are Avithheld, will not be withheld over two years at a 
 time, and then they will be obliged to find some means of using this 
 fund for the benefit pf the Indians and not simply let it be tied up 
 indefinitely. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. I am going to vote against that amendment, 
 and I will tell you why: It is expected that we will be able to go 
 down there, though it is not certain ; but I think that this provision 
 is a fair one. I think that the burden ought to be on those who con- 
 test it to repeal it. 
 [ Senator Owen. I do not think you appreciate what I intend. 
 
 Senator Eobixson. Your intention is simply to make it effective 
 for two years. 
 
 Senator Owen. No ; it is not. 
 
 Senator Eobinsox. Then I did misunderstand you. 
 
 Senator Owen. You certainly did. If you will permit me, I will 
 explain what the intention is. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Certainly. Are you reproving me for not lis- 
 1 tening to you? 
 
 Senator Owen. Oh, no. 
 ; Senator Eobinson. I thought you had made your proposition 
 
 Senator Owen. No; I do not think you appreciated what I in- 
 tended to convey. An indefinite term during which to withhold 
 would permit this fund simply to go into a bank on interest and lay 
 there indefinitely. It would permit that, would it not ? 
 
 Senator Egbinson. I do not know whether it woul(? or not. 
 
 Senator Owen. I would like you to look at the language and see 
 if you do not think that would really be the case. 
 
 Senator La Fgllette. It does not compel it. It leaves it in the 
 discretion of the Secretary of the Interior to pay out these funds 
 ^ whenever he thinks the Indian is competent. 
 
 9, Senator Egbinson. There is no provision here which contemplates 
 n putting it into a bank. 
 
 9' Senator Owen. I say, it would be allowed to stay indefinitely 
 £ without being used for the benefit of the Indians, and if a provi- 
 sion for some definite term is put in it would then put upon the ad- 
 ' ministrative officers of the Government the duty of ascertaining a 
 method of using it for the benefit of the Indians within a certain 
 time. That is the suggestion which I wish to make. I do not pro- 
 pose to suspend the operation of the law after two years at all. 1 
 did not make that suggestion. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. What do you propose? 
 
 Senator Owen. My suggestion is that they use this fund coming to 
 the Indian within two years for his benefit. 
 
 Senator Egbinson. What would happen if they did not use it? 
 
 Senator Owen. I want them to use it within two years 
 
 Senator Egbinson. I know, but provided they did not do it ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I want them to be instructed by the law to do that. 
 
 Senator La Fgllette. How does your amendment make the pro- 
 vision read? 
 
808 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. I desire any words that will express that meaning ; 
 1 do not care what they are. I niade the suggestion to insert in line 
 4, after the word "withheld," the words "not exceeding two yeafs." 
 You see, these are payments of interest, etc., may be withheld not ex- 
 ceeding two years, and the funds may be used for the benefit of tlie 
 Indians. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I want to say that I do not believe that 
 these excessive paj^ments to these Indians ought to be made at all ex- 
 cept upon a proper showing as to the Indians who receive large sums 
 of moneys that they must receive from the payment of these royalties 
 quarterly, amounting to $250,000, as the assistant commissioner has 
 stated here. I say that that is an unreasonable sum to turn over to 
 inexperienced people, people inexperienced in business. If they are 
 experienced in business and capable of handling as large sums of 
 money as that, then they can make a showing to the Secretary of the 
 Interior under this provision as it is now drawn, and get the money, 
 any if they are not, they ought not to have such large sums of money. 
 It is sure to beget extravagance, prodigality, and waste. 
 
 Senator Owen. Senator, do you suggest that it be tied up in- 
 definitely, perhaps? 
 
 Senator La Follette. It is not tied up, as I read the amendment, 
 as it stands now. 
 
 Senator Owen. Here are the two alternatives — it may be with- 
 held definitely or indefinitely, or the alternative that it may be used 
 for the Indian's benefit. I want it to be used for his benefit while he 
 is alive. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. Would you rather have the word " or " changed 
 to " and," so that it will read " may be withheld and used," etc. ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes; that will cover it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not know whether I would object to a 
 change in that particular ; that is, on line 5, change the word " or " to 
 the word " and." What do you think of that, so that it would read 
 '• under any law may be withheld, in the discretion of the Secretary 
 of the Interior, and the funds may be used," etc.? I think that 
 would meet the objection which you have made in your measure. 
 
 Senator Owen. I want to use it for the Indian's benefit while he is 
 alive. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. The difficulty about the matter is in the man- 
 ner of administration. When you get down to the actual practical 
 administration of it it is a very difficult thing; it does not run 
 smoothly and right, as it would seem to do. 
 
 Senator Townsend. This is the matter that occurred to me and the 
 only thing I had in mind: There are conditions there that are in 
 serious dispute. While we are all impressed with the fact that there 
 have been abuses indulged in, and which now exist, undoubtedly 
 there are disputes about it, and I have felt as though we ought to 
 know about it. In the meanwhile, however, I am perfectly willing 
 and very anxious to have that matter held up so as to prevent, if 
 possible, any abuses. I would not want to do anything that would 
 aggravate the abuses. Now, I can not see why the point that I had 
 in mind could not be served just as well with that provision, because 
 it could not be indefinite. If we found conditions different in an- 
 other year we could change it. It could not be an indefinite holding 
 up of this money if it is discovered that it ou^ht to be liberated and 
 
INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 809 
 
 as for myself, I am not satisfied. I am harassed with doubts about 
 the treatment that is accorded the Indians down there. I think they 
 have been robbed, and I would like to prevent it. At the same time 
 I would not want to foreclose the possibility that I might be mistaken 
 about some of those things. 
 
 The CHAIRMA^^ Is there any objection to inserting the words re- 
 ferred to( 
 
 The amendment of Senator Owen was agreed to. 
 jIi ^'^'^i^'J^f*^^'- Is there anv objection to inserting the word 
 " and m heu of the word " or "? In the absence of objection, it is 
 agreed to. 
 
 THE ROCKT BOT's BAND. 
 
 Senator Myers. I should like to call the attention of the committee 
 to one matter before we go into more lengthy matters. The matter 
 which I wish to present is a very urgent emergency which has 
 arisen, and I v.-ish to ask that a slight amendment be made in the 
 bill. I will ask the members of the committee to turn to page 39 of 
 the bill, lines 6, 7, and 8 : 
 
 For the support and civilization of the Rocky Boy's Band of Chippewas and 
 other indigent and homeless Indians iu the State of Jlontnna, including pay of 
 employees, $10,000. 
 
 As I think most of the members of this committee know quite well, 
 there is a band of Indians out there called the " Eocky Boy's Band," 
 a wandering band of Indians. I think you all know something about 
 them. They are a tramp band of Indians; they have no home, no 
 allotment, no land, although the Commissioner of Indian Affairs is 
 working on a plan now that may possibly get them some place of 
 lodgment in the future, and I shall be glad to help him. At present, 
 however, they have nothing; they are mendicants, ari*d are simply 
 supported by the United States Government. 
 
 A few days ago I received a telegram from former United States 
 Senator Gibson, of Great Falls, Mont., saying that these Chippewa 
 and Cree Indians were actually starving now; that they did not 
 have a bite to eat; and urging that some relief be granted them. I 
 communicated with Commissioner Sells, and Mr. Sells looked into it 
 and communicated with his agent at" Browning and, I understand, 
 found the conditions true and as reported, and ordered the agent to 
 buy $500 worth of supplies for them and to investigate their further 
 needs and condition. 
 
 All that I want in view of that urgent situation — and that $500 
 will not go very far — I simply move to add that their approjiriation 
 be immediately available. 
 
 The Chaieman. Is there any objection to that? 
 
 Senator Myers. If necessary the Indian Commissioner will- bear 
 me out. Do you not think that is advisable, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We shall be very glad to have that done. 
 
 Senator Page. How much is left of the old appropriation ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The old appropriation is practically exhausted. 
 
 Senator Townsend. May I ask you what part of that $10,000 is 
 for employees, and what part can be used for relief to the Indians ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Practically none of that money is used for employees. 
 
 Senator Townsend. It says, " including pay of employees." I was 
 wondering how much of it. 
 
810 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Those Indians have been moving back and forth, wan- 
 dering from place to place, and we have no employees in immediate 
 charge. 
 
 Senator Lane. Where are they located ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. At present a part of them are located on the Assini- 
 boine Eeservation. They wander from one place to another in Mon- 
 tana. They are a roving band of Indians that the department has 
 had difficulty with for years, and we can not get them -located on any 
 particular tract of land. 
 
 Senator Lane. They are Crees, are they not, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. There are between 300 and 500 of them. They are 
 Crees, and some of them from Canada. 
 
 Senator Myers. This has just come to my notice in the last day or 
 two, and I move to amend by putting a comma after $10,000 and 
 adding the words, "immediately available." 
 
 The Chairman. In the absence of objection it will be agreed to. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Are there not some of these Indians in the west- 
 ern part of North Dakota also? It seems to me, if my recollection 
 serves me right, that I have had some letters from half-breed Chip- 
 pewas in the western part of the United States belonging to this 
 tribe. They were located at one time in the Turtle Mountains, but 
 strayed away and are now in the western part of that State. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That was a different band of Indians. Some of the 
 Turtle Mountain Indians are located on allotments in Montana, but 
 the Crees are principally confined to Montana. 
 
 The Chairman. That is then agreed to. 
 
 CHOCTAWS and CHICKASAWS OPENING OF THE ROLLS. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Mr. Ballinger had not concluded yesterday. 
 
 Senator Owen. I should like to know how long Mr. Ballinger "is 
 going to take. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Since we have got started in this thing 1 
 am going to ask that Mr. Ballinger be heard clear through until he 
 finishes. I can be turned down on that by the committee, if the com-- 
 mittee thinks best to do it ; but we have started into this matter, and 
 I think we should go to the bottom of it. Then I want to hear the 
 other side until they finish. I am willing to work here nights and 
 Sundays in order to do that. 
 
 Senator Oaven.- I call your attention to the fact that the Commit- 
 tee on Indian Affairs of the House — that a subcommittee of that 
 committee listened to the presentation of this matter and filled a 
 volume of 700 pages. We are now right on the very heels of the end 
 of this Congress. I am on the Committee on Appropriations, and I 
 am interested in these appropriation bills which are coming up. I 
 feel that it is my duty to be on the floor when the legislative appro- 
 priation bill come up. I can not stay here while these appropria- 
 tions bills are going through. This affects my State; this thing 
 comes up right at the last minute, within the last few days of this 
 Congress. I have incited here to answer the statements made with 
 regard to the supposed injustice to these claimants the representative 
 from the Choctaw-Chickasaw country, Mr. Carter, a Member of 
 Congress, who heard this matter in the House. I want him to be 
 
INDIAN APPBOPRIATIOKT BILL. 811 
 
 given an opportunity to be heard this morning. Yesterday the 
 Senator from Wisconsin said he asked only 15 minutes for Mr. Field 
 and 15 minutes for Mr. Ballinger, and the committee listened to 
 them I believe three hours, or something like that, instead of 15 
 minutes, and now the Senator ^Yants to continue it indefinitely. I 
 do not think that is fair ; I do not think that is right. 
 
 Senator Robixson. How much time do you ask in which to con- 
 clude, Mr. Ballinger? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. About one-half hour. 
 
 Senator Mtees. I should like to ask Senator La FoUette how much 
 longer he thinks this testimony of the various parties will take ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I know nothing' about what the other side 
 has to say in answer to the statements that have been made here. 
 Mr. Ballinger says it will take him only about 30 minutes. 
 
 Senator Mtees. I want to say to the committee that it seems to 
 me that we ought to get this bill out. It is less than two weeks to the 
 end of the session, and there are about 14 appropriation bills to be 
 passed by the Senate and the shipping bill is to be brought back next 
 Saturday. That only allows one week for appropriation bills; and, 
 while I always like to have light and like for others to have light 
 on any subject, I am beginning to feel very apprehensive that the 
 entire Indian appropriation bill may fail, which I think would be 
 a great calamity, and while I do not want to set my judgment against 
 those who have been in regular attendance upon the meetings of 
 this committee, I think we should report this bill out by Monday 
 morning. 
 
 Mr. Carter. If I may be permitted just one moment, as Senator 
 Owen has referred to me. I believe I could talk to this committee 
 for two weeks from 10 o'clock in the morning until 6 in the after- 
 noon on citizenship in Oklahoma. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. I hope you will not. 
 
 Mr. Carter. We have heard from Mr. Ballinger time in and time 
 out, by the House committee and by the Senate committee. He made 
 the same argument last year before this committee. I was present 
 and heard him • 
 
 The Chairman. Pardon me for just a minute. Here is a volume, 
 as Senator Owen says, of some 700 pages on the same subject matter 
 we are going into here. Has any Senator read any part of these hear- 
 ings? These hearings are about 60 days old. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I should like to ask you if you know 
 whether the statement Mr. Ballinger made yesterday is in that 
 volume ? 
 
 The Chairman. The greater part of it is. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you know that it is all there ? 
 
 The Chairjian. I do not know that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Then I should like to ask Mr. Ballinger 
 whether that statement is in that valume? 
 
 Mr. Ballinoer. There is not a line in that volume relative to the 
 statement I made yesterday. That volume contains hearings reln- 
 tive to the rights of the Mississippi Choctaws, and I did not touch 
 upon that matter yesterday 
 
 Senator Eobixson. We have consumed now 10 or 15 minutes in 
 talking about whether we are going to hear this or not. Mv. Ballin- 
 
812 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 ger has stated that he can conclude in 30 minutes. I ask unanimous 
 consent that he be permitted to proceed and conclude in 30 minutes. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Will you not permit me to be heard for just one 
 minute ? 
 
 Senator Egbinson. All right. 
 
 Mr. Carter. This is the thing I was getting to. The gentleman 
 Avho tried these cases for the Choctaws and Chickasaws, Mr. Cornish, 
 is present, and he desires to be heard on these matters, and if the 
 Senators are crowded for time, I would much prefer that you hear 
 Mr. Cornish, because he has been maligned and abused by the persons 
 who want the rolls opened in a manner which I think is unjust 
 
 Senator Robinson. May I suggest, let us get through with Mr. 
 Ballinger's side of the case and then proceed with your side. 
 
 Senator Mters. I want to make a motion, without argument. I 
 move that all hearings on all questions be concluded and a final vote 
 be taken and report the bill out not later than 12 o'clock noon next 
 Monday, and that the time remaining be divided evenly between the 
 opposing sides. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I do not think that would hasten this bill through 
 at all. I would oppose that, although I hope we may get this bill 
 through as soon as we possibly can. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not think there is any intention of unduly 
 prolonging it at all. 
 
 Senator Mters. I do not wish to argue my motion. 
 
 The Chairman. You mean that we shall vote on the bill ? 
 
 Senator Mters. That we conclude all hearings and vote on the bill 
 by noon next Monday, and that between now and then the opposing 
 sides have the time equally divided between them. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I wish to say respecting that motion, not as 
 applying to this particular case, but as applying to any bill we have 
 before us, I think such a motion should never be adopted. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on the motion of the Senator from 
 Montana. Call the roll, Mr. Secretary. 
 
 The question being taken by yeas and nays, resulted as follows: 
 Yeas — Senators Myers, Robinson, Owen, and the chairman. Nays — 
 Senators Lane, White, La Follette, Page, Gronna, and Townsend. 
 
 So the motion was lost. 
 
 The Chairman. The motion is lost. I have just one request. I 
 ask unanimous consent that we vote to report out the bill at 4 o'clock 
 Tuesday afternoon. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I think we can get this bill out to-day if we go 
 ahead with the people who are here and get along with it. 
 
 The Chairman. Then you maj^ proceed, Mr. Ballinger. 
 
 STATEMENT OF WEBSTER BALLINGER— Continued. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee: 
 I want to call your attention to the fact that practically one-third of 
 the Indians in this country are in these Five Civilized Tribes, and 
 that this is possibly the most important Indian matter now pending 
 before Congress. Yesterday I made reference to certain acts of the 
 so-called Choctaw-Chickasaw citizen court that we thought were 
 unfair, that indicated that their judgments ought not to be given 
 that weight to which a judgment of a court is entitled. 1 wish to 
 
INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 81 S 
 
 briefly advert to some of the things that I did not mention yesterday 
 that appeal to me, and I believe will appeal to the minds of others. 
 
 Let me give you a concrete case, the case of Lulu West, reported in 
 Senate Document No. 1139, Sixty-second Congress, third session, 
 page 302. In that case Lulu West, a member of John Shockley's 
 family, was enrolled by a decision of the United States Indian agent 
 on July 15, 1889. The agent's action was approved by the Commis- 
 sioner of Indian Affairs on January 29; 1890, and by the Secretary 
 of the Interior on the same day. The application for her enrollment 
 was recommended by the then chief of the Choctaw Nation. 
 
 After the enrollment had become final she was then enrolled by 
 the tribal authorities and drew money as such member in 1893. In 
 1896 she made application for enrollment to the Commission to the 
 Five Civilized Tribes, although her name was then regularly on the 
 tribal rolls, but she did not know such to be the case, as the tribal 
 rolls were not accessible, not being in the custody of the commission^ 
 the lawful custodian, and her application was made as a precaution- 
 ary measure. The commission considered this case in the two minutes 
 it had under that law in which to consider such applications, and 
 because of lack of time denied the application. An appeal was taken 
 from the action of the commission to the United States district 
 court, where a decree was entered adjudging her and her children to 
 be citizens of the nation. The Choctaw Nation, through its attorneys^ 
 in that case, filed this answer in that proceeding : 
 
 " There is no evidence to show that this claim has ever been dis- 
 puted by the Choctaw Nation." 
 
 That case with others was transferred to the citizenship court for 
 trial again de novo, and after it was then docketed the attorneys foi'^ 
 the claimants, after they discovered the nature of the tribunal in 
 which the case was then pending, filed in the court this motion : 
 
 " Now comes the plaintiffs herein and move the court to dismiss 
 this cause from the docket of this court without prejudice." 
 
 They hoped if they could get the case out of that citizenship court 
 to get it back before the commission and the department. What wa& 
 the order of the court? Let me call the attention of all lawyers to 
 the fact that until a counter claim or set-off is filed by a defendant 
 it is always within the right of a plaintiff to dismiss his suit. And 
 that is what her attorneys tried to do. The order of the court wai 
 entered July 25, 1904. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What court ? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. The citizenship court. 
 
 Order of court: On this January 25, 1904, this cause coming on to be heard 
 upon the motion to dismiss, filed by the plaintiffs, the same having heretofore 
 been submitted upon argument of counsel, and the court being well and suffi- 
 ciently advised in the premises, is of the opinion that the same should be 
 overruled, and it is so ordered. 
 
 The result in this case, like practically all other cases that went 
 before the citizenship court, was a denial of their claim. After that 
 denial these claimants appealed to the President of the United States 
 for relief and the President directed the Interior Department to m- 
 quire into the case. The Assistant Attorney General for the Interior 
 Department held that as their names were regularly on the tribal 
 rolls that the commission had no power under the act of 1896 to; 
 have denied them enrollment, as the tribal rolls were by that law 
 
814 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 confirmed. That as the commission had no jurisdiction of their ease 
 under that law other than to enroll them, the United States court was 
 without jurisdiction to have reviewed the case on appeal, and as the 
 United States court was without jurisdiction to have reviewed it on 
 appeal, so the citizenship court, an appellate tribunal, was likewise 
 without jurisdiction. That was elementary law. The department 
 then directed that the case should be considered on its merits. The 
 commission took it up and made a finding that the claimants were 
 entitled to enrollment. The case then came back to the department, 
 and upon the request of the then counsel for the Chaotaw Nation 
 action thereon was suspended pending the decision of a case then 
 pending before the Attorney General that the attorneys for the tribe 
 thought covered the question then raised by said attorneys, to wit, 
 was the action of the citizenship court a finality. No action was 
 taken on the case pending before the Attorney General until Felbru- 
 ary 19, 1907, on which date an elaborate opinion was rendered and 
 which reached the department so late that there was no time in 
 which to examine the decision and apply it to the then pending .cases, 
 and Lula West's case was accordingly stamped " denied." Accord- 
 ing to the official communications, even the attorneys for the Chocftaw 
 Nation appealed to the Attorney General on or about March 8, 1907, 
 to except this class of cases from the ruling in tiie decision of 
 February 19, 1907. 
 
 Mr. Howell in speaking of that citizenship court, as I stated to you 
 yesterday, said that although the court was created for the pur- 
 pose of purging the judgments and eliminating the fraud, that most 
 of the cases taken into the court turned upon a ilegaji iquestion. Mr. 
 Howell in his official report, in the same document, page 1S5, says : 
 
 There Is another feature Of the decisions of the citizenship court WMch I 
 desire to bring to your attention. It has been given out frequently and with 
 much publicity that there was great fraud on the part of citlzensbtp appllcaHts. 
 But, after careful examination of such decisions, I find that the cases .of a 
 large number of the applicants fall within the rulings in a few leading de- 
 cisions, which turn solely upon construction of law — dedsioTis in wTiiCh the 
 citizenship court stands practically alone. 
 
 He might have said, " absolutely alone," because no other tribunal, 
 so far as any reported case appears, ever made a similar ruling upon 
 the legal question upon which the cases turned. As the result of 
 the work of that citizenship court. Senators, 3,403 cases were denied. 
 That will be found in Senate Document No. 372, Sixtieth Congress, 
 first session, page 62. They were denied by the citizenship court 
 during a period of two or three years. Only 156 persons whose cases 
 were taken into that court received favorable judgment, and the 
 majority of those 156 persons were white persons, not Indians. They 
 were persons who had intermarried under the tribal laws. The 
 Indians were denied ; the whites were enrolled. There is the record 
 and I invite your attention to it. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What proportion of these 3,403 cases denied 
 by the citizenship court had been approved by the Federal cou,r± 
 theretofore ? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. Over 2,000. I want to speak now, briefly, of cer- 
 tain acts of the attorneys, Mansfield, McMunray & Cornish, that we 
 think were improper. During the course of tiiis work the firm of 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 815 
 
 Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish had unlimited funds at their dis- 
 posal. There were blanket appropriations by the tribal councils, 
 unlawfully made. They employed during the course of this work 
 one William O. Beall. You will find the name of William O. Beall 
 in the report transmitted by the Interior Department recommending 
 that no legislation be enacted for the benefit of the Mississippi Choc- 
 taws. The department evidently did not know of the record of Mr. 
 Beall, otherwise it would not have based its report partially upon a 
 report made to it recently by Beall. This man Beall was the chief 
 clerk of the Choctaw and Chickasaw enrollment division of the 
 Dawes Commission, and as such he passed upon every Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw case that came before it. These attorneys for the tribes 
 employed that man during his employment by the commission, took 
 him into their offices, and he there briefed the cases against the appli- 
 cants, and then returned to the commission and, in the name of the 
 United States, passed upon and decided adversely to the claimants 
 the cases he had previously briefed against the claimants. Do not 
 take my word for that. Turn to the report of William Dudley Folk, 
 formerly Civil Service Commissioner, found in Senate Document No. 
 357, Fifty-ninth Congress, second session. With the permission of 
 the committee, I will insert in my remarks the pertinent portions of 
 that report. 
 
 After finding William 0. Beall guilty of (a) briefing cases while 
 in the employ of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish against the appli- 
 cants and then returning to the commission and passing on the cases 
 in an official capacity; (b) suppressing applications in cases which 
 were jurisdictional and thereby preventing the enrollment of th« 
 claimant; (c) furnishing lists of citizenship cases to certain attor- 
 neys, which gave them unfair advantage; (d) withholding records 
 from other attorneys to the prejudice of the rights of the claims of 
 their clients; and (e) refusing to include facts shown by the records 
 of the tribes in the record made up for transmission to the depart- 
 ment Mr. Foulk says : 
 
 What, then, shonld be done with reference to Mr. Beall? Without reflecting 
 In any manner upon his motives (and It is quite possible he has not realized 
 the improprieties of which he has been guilty), his conduct has naturally tended 
 to bring scandal upon the oflice in regard to its decisions in all Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw enrollment cases, and such scandal has actually resulted, as is 
 evident by the great number of complaints made and the dissatisfaction shown. 
 
 I thinlj, therefore, that his usefulness on the commission, so far as the com- 
 mission Is engaged in the determination of these cases, is at an end, and I 
 recommend that Mr. Beall be in the future forbidden to take any part in the 
 determination of any enrollment case whatever in the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations— not merely cases which have been before the citizenship court, but 
 all cases of enrollment of every description in these nations, as well as all 
 cases in which the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish have been or are 
 or may hereafter be interested; that he be forbidden to consider such cases 
 either as acting commissioner, secretaiy, clerk, or in any other capacity; that 
 he be forbidden to initial or make memoranda regarding any of the decisions 
 in such cases, or to preside or in any manner assist at the hearing thereof or 
 in the determination of any question, whether of law or of fact, therein ; that 
 he have no further control over any of the records whatever relating to Choc- 
 taw and Chickasaw enrollment cases; that he shall no longer advise the com- 
 missioner or any of the clerks or any other person passing upon any of these 
 decisions formally or informally, officially or unofficially. In regard thereto, 
 the intention of this prohibition being to separate him as completely from the 
 
816 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 determination of any such cases as if he were no longer living; that iu order 
 to enforce this prohibition it be publicly brought to the notice of all the em- 
 ployees of the Commisj^ion to the Fire Civilized Tribes^, as well as attorneys 
 or claimants appearing in such cases, In the identical language here employed; 
 and that if hereafter he tal;e any part whatever in any of said cases he be at 
 once separated from the service. 
 
 I have no disposition to be unnecessarily severe with Jlr. Beall, but the good 
 name of the public service requires that nothing less than this be done. 
 
 But that is only a part of -what transpired. In 1910 the House 
 authorized a special committee to investigate the question of con- 
 tracts with Indians. That committee made an exhaustive investiga- 
 tion into the subject, and during the course of that investigation 
 they particularly investigated the contracts and conduct of this firm 
 of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish. They tell the story better than 
 I can. Let me read briefly from that report. It will be found in 
 House Report No. 2:^73, Sixty-first Congress, third session, page 3 
 of the report, as follows : 
 
 GENERAL KKVIKW OF M'MURRAY's CONTRACTS. 
 
 It appears from the evidence that James F. McMurray is a lawyer, having 
 been admitted to the bar at Gainesville, Tex., in 1890, where he resided until 
 he removed to McAlester, Okla., then Indian Territory, in 1,S97, where he 
 engaged in the practice of law. In 1898 he formed a partnership with George 
 A. Mansfield and ]\Ielven Cornish, under the firm name of Mansfield, McMurray 
 & Cornish. In July, 1899, this firm was employed by the Chickasaw Nation 
 to represent the tribe before the Dawes Commission in relation to citizenship 
 matters. A contract was entered into between Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish 
 and the Chickasaw Nation, by which the said firm were to receive $5,000 
 annually for their services. In the early part of the year 1900 a similar con- 
 tract was made with the (.'hoctaw Nation at a salary of $5,000 per year to 
 represent that nation before the Dawes Commission. 
 
 Both of these contracts appear to have been executed iu accordance with itie 
 law and were approved by the department Januarj' 10, 1900. The employment 
 continued until March 4, 1907. It also appears that in 1900 contracts between 
 Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish and the Chickasaw and Choctaw Tribes were 
 entered into by which the firm were to act as general counsel to the nations 
 at an agreed salary of $5,000 per annum, to be paid by each nation ; that they 
 continued to serve under said contracts until March 4. ]!)(i7; that under the 
 contract to represent the Chickasaw Nation as general counsel the firm were 
 to receive the sum of .^2,700 for expenses, and that said amount was paid to 
 the said firm annually either directly or for expenses during their -employment. 
 Enormous expenses were incurred by these attorneys, to pay which the $2,701) 
 authorization was grossly inadequate. To meet the situation both nations 
 passed numerous acts allowing expenses. On October 2(1, 1900, the-Chickasaws 
 passed a " blanket '' expense act, authorizing expenses without limit. A fund 
 of $30,000 had already been placed at the disposal of the governor, and he had 
 most of it on hand when this firm began the work. The Choctaws also passed 
 their share of these expense acts, one of which was in blanket form. 
 
 The law governing Indian contracts requires that they shall be approved by 
 the Secretary of the Interior and also that acts of the tribal councils authoriz- 
 ing contracts or the appropriation of money shall also be approved by the Presi- 
 dent, but it appears that neither of the contracts as genei'al counsel or any of 
 the acts of the tribal council malting appropriations for expenses were submitted 
 for approval, and in fact they were not approved ; and large sums of money 
 were paid to the said firm of Mansfield, M(/Murray & Cornish for allegeil 
 expenses and upon vouchers that were not properly Itemized ; there is no way 
 of det<'rmlning as to how much of the money paid for alleged expenses was 
 disbursed, but under tlie contracts referred to and the amounts appropriated 
 and paid for expenses the said firm of Jr.-insfield, McMurray & Cornish between 
 the dates named received over $200,000. During this same period they were 
 employed by these Indian tribes in other matters and received therefor remun- 
 eration in large amounts. The contracts for service enjoyed by this firm with 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 817 
 
 these two tribes, togethfer witli fees received or to be received, up to Maicli 4„ 
 1907, are as follows : 
 
 Citizensliip, annual salary (aggregate) $70,0()(>' 
 
 Citizenship court, contingent tee 750, o(X» 
 
 General attorneys, annual salary (aggregate) 45, ii<)(» 
 
 Due and unpaid 20,000 
 
 Incompetent fund 3, 000 
 
 Due and unpaid 12,000 
 
 Freedman case, yet unpaid 27,500 
 
 Mississippi Choctaw case 
 
 J. Hale Sypher case *_ 
 
 Eli Ayers case 
 
 Collection of tribal taxes 
 
 927, 500 
 
 In addition to above, J. F. McMurray has thus far received on his individual. 
 tax contracts the sum of $20,200, and about $55,000 remains unpaid. 
 
 Senators, those great funds were at their command, and it is 
 openly charged in that coimtry that they were used improperly to 
 produce evidence against these claimants. No provision was made 
 by the Government of the United States for the protection of the 
 claimant. Xo attorney was afforded the claimant. Poor as he was 
 he had to employ his own attorney to combat such an influence, both 
 in and out of the court. With these unlimited funds at their dis- 
 posal they found willing witnesses at great distance from Indian 
 Territory, whose alleged testimony was taken. The claimants could 
 not be present, and records were in some cases made in this way. 
 
 This per capita payment appropriation is being urged on the 
 ground that it is in fulfillment of your promises to these Indians, 
 contained in your laws and agreements with them. Senators, by the 
 act of June 28, 1898, you provided that every person entitled to be 
 enrolled should be enrolled, and that when the rolls were " so made 
 and approved by the Secretary of the Interior they should be final." 
 You then specially provided that every person whose name appeared 
 upon the tribal rolls should have his distributive share of the prop- 
 erty, both in lands and money. That promise was carried again into 
 the Atoka agreement, section 29 of the act of June 28, 1898. It was 
 carried again into the supplemental agreement of July 1, 1902. 
 
 By the last act passed upon this subject, namely, the act of April 
 26, i906, you provided by section 16 that when allotments had been 
 made to all persons entitled to allotment under this (act of Apr. 26, 
 1906) and other acts of Congress that the residue of the land should 
 be sold, and by section 17 you provided that when all just claims 
 against the tribes had been paid that the remaining money should be 
 distributed per capita. Has that condition come to pass? Have 
 all the persons entitled to allotments received allotments? Have all 
 the just claims against these funds been paid? The answer is found 
 in all these documents from which I have read. There is quite a 
 number yet unprovided for and who have received nothing from 
 these estates. 
 
 By an act passed in 1901 provision was made that any Indian in 
 the United States of Indian blood who was denied a right to allot- 
 ment might go into the United States court and have his right to 
 tribal property determined. But careful provision was made to 
 
 82833 — VOL 1 — 15 52 
 
818 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 except the members of the Five Civilized Tribes from the operation 
 of that law, so that they have been tied at all times by these various 
 enactments and the administration under them and have been help- 
 less. 
 
 There is just one more matter that I desire to submit, and I have 
 feeen only able to touch casually upon the acts that we think were 
 unfair in the administration of these laws. I hold in my hand a 
 certified copy of what f^ppears in the record taken from a case in 
 the Dawes Commission. Let me read it. It is very significant. 
 These are the notations : 
 
 Petitioners and Maliala Roberts, nee Sealy; Dicli Roberts, Wilson Sealy, 
 Shimoheclie Cutchontubbee, Thomas Sealy, Shimohecbe Ohutchontubbee on final 
 roll 9-793 ; Mary Sealy on roll. Hold until Curtis bill passes. 
 
 Tbis is to certify tliat I am the olBcer having custody of the records pertain- 
 ing to the enrollment of the members of the Ohoctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee, 
 Creek, and Seminole Tribes of Indians, and the disposition of the land of said 
 tribes, and the above and foregoing is a true and correct copy of a pencil memo- 
 randum on a slip of paper with the record on file in this office in the matter of 
 the petition for transfer from the roll of Chickasaw Freedmen to the roll of 
 citizens by blood of the Chickasaw Nation of the names of William Roberts 
 et al. 
 
 J. Geo. Wright, 
 Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 By W. H. Angell, 
 Clerk ill charge of Chickasaw Records. 
 Muskogee, Okla., 
 
 November 5, 1910. 
 
 That is the notation on the record, and the case was held until the 
 act of April 26, 1906, passed containing a provision cutting out a 
 part of these people that were entitled to enrollment when the appli- 
 cation was filed and when the case was submitted for decision. The 
 case was held until after a law was passed cutting out the claimants. 
 
 Just one word now -^ith refei-ence to the report recently made by 
 a subcommittee of the House on the Mississippi Choctaw matter. 
 Personally, I dislike to make the statement that I am going to make, 
 because I personally am fond of the chairman of that committee. 
 Two years before that committee reported, another subcommittee, com- 
 posed of men other than those from Oklahoma, investigated the rights 
 of the Mississippi Choctaws and submitted a unanimous report tiiat 
 they had an equitable claim. Then followed the appointment of a 
 committee of which Mr. C. D. Carter, of Oklahoma, was made chair- 
 man. Mr. C. D. Carter is an enrolled member of the Chickasaw 
 Tribe. As a member of the Chickasaw Tribe, of course, he and his 
 family had an interest in those funds, and the matter that came 
 before his subcommittee was a controversy over the division of those 
 funds. We thought. Senators, and we have thought throughout this 
 entire controversy, that men who were personally interested in funds 
 ought not to sit as judges. 
 
 Hearings were had before that committee, and I think the chair- 
 man of that subcommittee will bear me out when I state that through- 
 out practically all of those hearings only two members were present — 
 himself and one other member. And during a part of the hearings 
 he alone sat so that the members of the committee — all the members 
 of that committee did not know the facts disclosed as a result of those 
 hearings. Four members signed the report prepared by the chair- 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 819 
 
 man. One member refused to sign it, and has or will submit a 
 minority report. 
 
 We think, Senators, that when you come to consider the disposi- 
 tion of these funds that men who are interested ought not to sit as 
 Judges, and against that we protest and ask that when this matter 
 is taken up, as it surely will be some time, that an absolutely impar- 
 tial tribunal will be appointed who will look into it and do justice 
 to those to whom justice belongs. You are appropriating to-day 
 $85,000 a year to protect the restricted Indian in Oklahoma in the 
 enjoyment of his property, appropriating those funds from the 
 public Treasury. Nowhere else are such appropriations necessary 
 to protect the restricted enrolled Indian from avarice of the white 
 man and the mixed breed. They are the shrewd and cunning who 
 are preying upon the full-blood brothers. You are appropriating 
 $300,000 a year for school facilities; you are expending large sums 
 of money from the Federal Treasury and throwing around the en- 
 rolled Indian every aid and protection, but not one dollar is being 
 appropriated for the protection and education of your full-blood 
 ward who has been swindled out of his rights. He is left there help- 
 less, and no man from Oklahoma in Congress, for political reasons, 
 dares to raise his voice in his behalf. 
 
 The charge has been made against me that I was a grafter for ad- 
 vocating the rights of these helpless people. Senators, I hand back 
 that charge to the men who made it and ask them to come forward 
 and disclose hands as clean as mine. 
 
 I thank the committee for its consideration. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Carter asks to have 10 minutes. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES D. CARTER, A REPRESENTATIVE 
 IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, as to 
 Mr. BalUnger's statement about my having been chairman of the sub- 
 committee that made this report, that is true. As to his statement 
 that it at any time occurred in the hearings of that subcommittee that 
 1 was the only one present, that is positively and absolutely untrue, 
 as the gentleman knew it when he stated it. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Carter 
 
 Mr. Carter. I did not interrupt you, sir, when you were assailing 
 me in the manner you assailed me. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I ask to have that remark stricken from the 
 record. 
 
 Mr. Carter. I beg the committee's pardon. 
 
 Senator La Foluette. I ask action upon it. I move to strike that 
 observation, that personal observation, from the record, unless it is 
 withdrawn from the record. 
 
 Mr Carter. That will be perfectly agreeable to me. 1 beg the 
 committee's pardon for losing my temper, but when a man s character 
 is assailed he sometimes goes further than he should. 
 
 Senator Owen (presiding). Mr. Carter, I would proceed with the 
 
 Mr Carter. As to the report of the subcommittee there were four 
 members of the subcommittee who signed it. Three of them were 
 
820 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 not interested in any matters in Oklahoma ; three of them who Avere 
 not interested in any tribal estate in Oklahoma. When that subcom- 
 mittee report came up for action by the Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 the recommendations of that subcommittee were adopted unani- 
 mously without a dissenting vote, and the bill provided for opening 
 the rolls of the Mississippi Choctaws and was taken upon the motion 
 of some gentleman, I have forgotten who. 
 
 Now, as to my interest. I will say that I am not on. the Choctaw 
 rolls. I am on the Chickasaw rolls. My interest in that estate is, 
 perhaps $300 or $500. As to whether a paltry sum of $300 to $500 
 would influence me in the adjudication of the rights of any person 
 as man between man, I am willing that the members of this com- 
 mittee who know me shall judge. 
 
 Our friend told us that a person by the name of Shimoheche 
 Cutchontubbe — or rather my friend read some documents ask- 
 ing that that case be held up. It happens that Shimoheche 
 Cutchontubbe is a near relative of mine, and my oldest daughter is 
 named after her. She was not excluded from the rolls. She is on 
 the rolls to-day. She is a full-blood Chickasaw Indian, and I can 
 present her name to this committee, if the roll book of the Chickasaw 
 Indians is furnished me. I did' not catch the other names, but one 
 name ought to be sufficient to explode any such statement as that, I 
 think. 
 
 Gentlemen of the committee, I think it is a matter of immateriality, 
 so far as the rights of these persons are concerned, as to what the fees 
 of the attorneys are. Mr. Ballinger, perhaps, knows that I was op- 
 posed to the attorney fee in amount as it was paid to Mansfield, 
 McMurray & Cornish. 
 
 I do think that the laborer is worthy of his hire, and that an at- 
 torney should be paid when he renders actual service. My only 
 opinion about that fee was that it was excessive. But since our 
 friend has gone into the question of attorneys' fees, I want to bring 
 up a matter about the question of his attorneys' fees and see what 
 animus is behind his presentation of this case. I want to read to you 
 from a letter of Albert Lee, the partner of Mr. "Webster Ballinger, 
 and I will say in advance that our friend, Ballinger, denied most 
 vehemently before our committee that Albert Lee was his partner 
 at the time this letter was written. After the hearings were closed 
 Albert Lee came into the committee room and I questioned him, and 
 he said that beyond doubt Mr. Ballinger was his partner at the time 
 and knew about his writing this letter. Mr. Lee is now in California 
 and that can be verified. Mr. Lee was writing to a man by the name 
 of Harris Masterson, a promoter, to get his fee on the Mississippi 
 Choctaw question capitalized, and this is the -wa,j the letter begins : 
 
 Mr. Webster Ballinger and I represented some 13,000 persons, wbo claim a 
 right to the tribal property of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians in Oklahoma. 
 Of the above number of persons represented by us there are some 3,738, who are 
 conclusively, as shown by the Government records, entitled to a share and 
 distribution of the tribal property, and their individual share is estimated at 
 $3,000 cash. We represent these people under contracts providing for a con- 
 tingent fee of from 12^ to 40 per cent of the value of each share. I am attach- 
 ing a statement showing the value of our fees. This statement also shows the 
 amount of said fees we have already contracted for. You will observe that my 
 individual share — 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 821 
 
 He and Mr. Ballinger were partners, and Mr. Ballinger's indi- 
 vidual share would certainly equal his. 
 
 will amount to $850,911, based upon the cases I consider certain, and if we suc- 
 ceeded in one-third of the cases we consider uncertain, or, rather if we suc- 
 ceeded in enrolling 3,000 out of the 10,000 doubtful cases, my individual share 
 would be $2,069,911. 
 
 Senator Geonna. This same letter was read to this committee a 
 year ago and you were here, and Mr. Ballinger denied most emphati- 
 cally that he was a partner with Mr. Lee at that time. 
 
 Mr. Cautee. Mr. Lee says he was, and I am positively certain that 
 he was, and Mr. Lee, since Mr. Ballinger's statement to the com- 
 niittee, has again told me that Mr. Ballinger was his partner at this 
 time. 
 
 I have found tliis about Mr. Ballinger, gentlemen, that when it was 
 convenient — and I do not want to be offensive, but I think this com- 
 mittee ought to loiow the facts, have found in my investigation that 
 when it was convenient — Mr. Ballinger always denies association 
 with Mr. Lee. I think the thing the Senator has in mind, perhaps, 
 was not this letter, but a letter that was written about me and my 
 campaign by Mr. Ballinger, to which both names were printed, per 
 Albert J. Lee. At that time Mr. Ballinger denied any knowledge of 
 the letter, and Mr. Lee has told me since that it was sent out with his 
 knowledge. As to which gentleman is telling the truth about it, I do 
 not know. At any rate, Mr. Ballinger has contracts, which he will 
 not deny, that represents 12J to 40 per cent, and he has stated in half 
 a dozen different statements, in hearings before committees, notably 
 the hearing on the restriction bill, 1908, and the hearings before the 
 Indian Committee of the House, 1910, that he represented some 
 13,000 people. I read copies of the contracts recently, and these cor- 
 respond exactly with what Mr. Lee says so far as attorneys' fees are 
 concerned, and it would appear that our friends, Mansfield, Mc- 
 Murray & Cornish, have not begvm to approach the fees claimed by 
 our friend, Webster Ballinger. 
 
 I do not intend to go into any individual cases, because it would 
 take this committee's time until eternity. I have mentioned the one 
 case which Mr. Ballinger stated, and I know about that, because 
 Shimoheche Cutchontubbee is a relative of mine, and was a very 
 old woman. I think she is dead now. And I do Imow that some of 
 the same statements made here this morning are contained in this 
 record ; I do know that the same statements made by Mr. Ballinger 
 were made in 1908 before a committee to which I listened to him 
 on the restrictive bill, and he told us if we would give him 12 months 
 then to adjust these matters that he would be back before Congress 
 with court judgments placing these people on the rolls. He went 
 to the court, and the court decided against him since that time. 
 Again the same argument was made in 1910. 
 
 If the committee wants to take up the citizenship question and 
 will give me two or three hours, I believe I can satisfy the commit- 
 tee that that matter has been equitably closed, and ought to be closed 
 eternally. The same treaty under which Mr. Ballinger said all 
 persons should be enrolled, and so forth, permitted the making of the 
 rolls by the Federal Government. By a subsequent provision it set 
 out that no one should share in these funds unless they were placed 
 
822 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION lULL. 
 
 upon the roll in accordance with that law. The rolls were closed by 
 the act of April 26, 1906, as of date March 4, 1907. It does seem to 
 me that the end of these things ought to come. It does seem to me 
 that the sacred treaty provisions of the Government ought to be 
 complied with and the funds ought to be distributed among the 
 Choctaw people, as has been promised and pledged to them in two 
 different treaties. 
 
 I thank the committee. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Just one moment more. I have in my 
 hands the volume to which reference was made this morning by the 
 chairman of the committee. It is entitled " Enrollment in the Five 
 Civilized Tribes. Hearings before the Subcommittee of the Com- 
 mittee on Indian xVffairs, House of Representatives, having under 
 consideration the following bills: 3389, 3390, 6537, 7926, 7974, 8007, 
 10066, 10140, and 12586." 
 
 The hearing, with the appendix, covers some 861 pages. I notice 
 that at the opening of that hearing you were presiding. Now, what 
 I want to ask you, Mr. Carter, is if that hearing was not entirely 
 upon the Mississippi Choctaw claims? 
 
 Mr. Carter. It was intended to be. Senator, but it was necessary 
 for us to include other matters in it, as, for instance, you take the 
 statement of George J. Humphreys. 
 
 Senator La Follette. For whom did he appear? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Himself. And you take the statement of W. N. Red- 
 wine. The Redwine statement, I am sure, was exclusively on 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was not the Humphreys statement based 
 upon the Mississippi Choctaw claim? 
 
 Mr. Carter. My recollection is, it was not. Senator. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I have run through this hearing pretty care- 
 fully, and 
 
 Mr. Carter. I may have got that impression, though, from the 
 fact that Mr. Humphreys's original application Avas not filed as a 
 Mississippi Choctaw, but as a resident Choctaw. 
 
 Senator La Follette. He states on page 343 the descent upon 
 which he claims, and I think it goes to the Choctaws of Mississippi. 
 Now, the only statement presented here that is not a statement made 
 on behalf of the Mississippi claimants is the statement of William 
 W. Wright, on page 717; a very brief statement, or brief as com- 
 pared with the others. In that statement he says that he appears 
 in behalf of Everett Crutchfield, George Washington Crutchfield, 
 and David Ritter (minor) , Choctaws by blood ; George Bumgarner, 
 Choctaw by blood; John H. Gamblin et al., Harvey Patrick et al., 
 James M. Crabtree et al., D. A. Parker et al., Mary A. Hibbs, and 
 other applicants. 
 
 Except for my statement, Mr. Carter. I am quite certain from hav- 
 ing looked at each one of the statements made by those who appeared 
 before your committee, that they start with the statement that they 
 appear in behalf of the Mississippi Choctaws. 
 
 Mr. Carter. You vrill find a statement of W. N. Redwine on page 
 273, and if you will read carefully the statement of Mr. Humphreys 
 you will see his case is not based upon what is commonly known as 
 the Mississippi Choctaw rights. Perhaps there is a misunderstand- 
 ing as to v.'hat a Mississippi Choctaw might be. '\'\'Tiat we under- 
 stand a Mississippi Choctaw to be, and what he is conceded to be 
 
INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 823 
 
 generally by all parties, is an Indian who had not moved from 
 Toifl^^^^P^ **' Oklahoma when the agreement was made on June 28, 
 1898. 1 hese gentlemen you will note both claim to have been there 
 before that time. Mr. Humphreys himself says his people had been 
 there tor 40 years prior to that time, and I think Mr. Redwine claims 
 his clients had been there a long time. A Mississippi Choctaw, I 
 think, benators, can be defined as a Choctaw Indian who was not on 
 the reservation June 28, 1898. 
 
 Senator Oaatdn. In effect it is so defined in the agreement of 1902. 
 
 Senator La Follette. The great bulk of these hearings ^\eve in 
 behalf of the Mississippi Choctaws, were they not ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And Mr. Ballinger's statement made before 
 the comrnittee — I have gone over that pretty carefully page by page, 
 and I think the Mississippi ChoctaAv matter runs through all of the 
 pages of his statement. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes; he spoke almost exclusively 
 
 Senator La Follette. And I judge he spoke almost entirely, if 
 not entirely, upon the Mississippi Choctaws? 
 
 Mr. Carter. He spoke almost exclusively 
 
 Senator La Follette. I refer to it simply because I was somewhat 
 surprised when it was claimed this morning that these 700 pages 
 here referred to the very matters we are hearing now. 
 
 Mr. Carter. They do in a way, Senator. 
 
 Senator La Follette. While Mr. Ballinger did make a brief refer- 
 ence to the Mississippi Choctaws yesterday, it was only with the state- 
 ment that when we ever took it up for consideration he thought we 
 would find they had some equities, but it was only a passing state- 
 ment. I want to ask j'ou just one otheT thing. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Will you let me say before that ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Certainly. 
 
 Mr. Carter. They refer to the opening of the Choctaw rolls, all 
 of them do. They refer to undoing the 11 years' work that was 
 done by the Commission of the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is all, if you have concluded. I just 
 wanted to get into the record here a paragraph from the Indian ap- 
 propriation bill of last August in connection with the statements 
 made regarding Mr. Ballinger's interest in the cases of those for 
 whom he was speaking : 
 
 Unless the consent of the United States shall have previously been given, all 
 contracts made with any person or persons now or hereafter applicants for 
 enrollment as citizens in the Five Civilized Tribes for compensation for 
 services in relation thereto are hereby declared to be void and of no effect, 
 and the collection or receipts from any such applicants for citizenship shall 
 constitute an offense asainst the law of the United States, punishable by a fine 
 not exceeding $500 or imprisonment for not exceeding six months, or both. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Cornish represented the Choctaws and Chicka- 
 saws during the period of this citizenship matter and is very familiar 
 with the cases, or was at the time they were up for consideration. 
 He desires to be heard. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. MELVEN CORNISH, M'ALESTER, OKLA. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I 
 do not know just what to say with reference to my interest in this 
 
g24 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 matter at the present time. I came to Washington two weeks ago 
 on some private business and have been detamed here. As a matter 
 of my general interest in these matters I have attended this hearing 
 and was present the day before yesterday, when Mr. Ballmgers 
 statement was made. Since it has been discussed at length, and 
 since so many matters of great importance with which I have been 
 connected in year past have been referred to, and since those matters 
 are of such vast importance to my former clients, the Choctaws and 
 Chickasaws, and of such vast importance to this committee, if I can 
 throw any light upon these maters or render any service to my former 
 clients in testifying at this time I shall be happy and shall welcome 
 the opportunity. 
 
 Gentlemen of the committee, our employment ended on the 4th of 
 March, 1907. I was about Washington for a year or two after that 
 time. The work of the Choctaw and Chickasaw citizenship court 
 was concluded in December, 1904. Then in 1905, 1906, 1907, 1908, 
 and 1909, notwithstanding the fact that from 1907 to 1909 we sus- 
 tained no professional relations with the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations, I was about Washington and attended the meetings of the 
 House Committee on Indian Affairs and of this committee. During 
 that period the very identical propositions presented here by Mr. 
 Ballinger and the matter of the general rights he is insisting upon 
 at this time was that the rolls of the Choctaw and Chickasaw citi- 
 zenship should be reopened. He presented" that proposition, as I say, 
 throughout all those years, and that is the general proposition that is 
 presented here at this time — that the mater of final enrollment of 
 the Choctavr and Chickasaw Indians has been unfairly dealt with; 
 that wrongs hare been perpetrated upon his clients, these claimants; 
 and for that reason the whole subject should be i-eopened and gone 
 into. 
 
 I have not thought of these matters for some six years now. This 
 committee is now composed almost entirely of new members. These 
 subjects are i>erhaps new to these members, but they have been 
 thoroughly and fully presented in the years past to the Committe? 
 of the House as then organized and to the Committee of the Senate 
 as then organized. It is to those of us who ha^e been through 
 these matters for so manv vears an old story. Senator Clapp alid 
 perhaps Senator La Follette are, I think, the only Senators now 
 present who were on that old committee when I last appeared. 
 With those two exceptions the membership of this committee is en- 
 tirely new. 
 
 Our employment as attoi-neys for the Choctaws and Chickasaws 
 'Comiiienced in 1899. I removed to that country from the Stsite of 
 Arkansas, having been heie in Washington as the secretarv to 
 •Congressman Little of jVvkansas: I then accepted a position as an 
 employee of the Dawes Commission, but severed my connection 
 with the Dawes Commission in Febi-uary, 1899, and at that time the 
 firm of Mansfield, McJMurray et Cornish was organized; Mr. Mans- 
 field and myself were from the State of Arkansas and Mr. McJMurray 
 from Texas. 
 
 In June, 1899, Ave were given our first employment by Governor 
 Johnston, who was then governor of the Chickasaw Nation and 
 who is now the governor of the Choctaw Nation. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 825 
 
 Through my general knowledge of Indian matters, acquired as 
 private secretary to Congressman Little, who was a member of the 
 Committee on Indian Affairs, and through my association with those 
 matters in connection with the Dawes Comniission, 1 learned of the 
 things that were at that time the scandal of that country and of the 
 entire southwestern part of the United States, namely, the matter 
 of the admission of 4,000 white adventurers from the States of Arkan- 
 sas and Texas to the citizenship rolls of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Xations by the United States courts, by the perpetration of the 
 grossest and most outrageous frauds and perjury. 
 
 The original act — the first act of Congress that deprived the In- 
 dians of the right to determine their own citizenship — was the act of 
 June 10-, 1896. That conferred jurisdiction upon the Dawes Com- 
 mission to pass upon the rights of citizenship applicants, with the 
 right to appeal to the United States court. Under that act, as I say, 
 approximately 4,000 persons applied for Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 citizenship. Their cases were submitted to the Dawes Commission, 
 the representative the Government of the United States sent there 
 for that purpose, and they were practically all denied, it being the 
 finding of the Dawes Commission that these people were white 
 people ; that they were not Indians and not entitled to share in tribal 
 property. From that action of the Dawes Commission they appealed 
 to the United States court, and through the years of 1896, 1897, and 
 1898 these judgments of admission were rendered. Immediately 
 after the rendition of such judgments these people went into pos- 
 session of the lands of the Choctaws and Chickasaws, and that was 
 the condition existing in that country when the firm of Mansfield, 
 McMurray & Cornish was organized early in 1899. 
 
 After we had commenced to attend to matters of our original em- 
 ployment, Gov. Johnston laid before us that condition and appealed 
 to us to loaow if there was anything we could do that would bring to 
 the attention of the Congress of the United States the frauds and the 
 wrongs that had been perpetrated upon the Choctaws and Chicka- 
 saws. 
 
 We set about that work under his direction. We took up each case. 
 We made investigations ourselves and through inspectors here, there, 
 and yonder. We conferred with witnesses who had made the original 
 affidavits and gave depositions, and as a result we Avere able to con- 
 vince the Congress of the United States and were able to convince 
 every fair-minded man with whom we came in contact, in Congress 
 and elsewhere, that the admission of those people was a fraud ; that 
 it was a scandal upon the hands of the Government of the United 
 States, and that the most solemn obligations rested upon the Gov- 
 ernment of the United States to retry those cases, so that justice 
 might be done to the Choctaws and Chickasaws. 
 
 At this point I wish to say without hesitation or (jualification that 
 the largest share of whatever credit is due for the ultimate defeat of 
 these claims belongs to Gov. Johnston, of the Chickasaw Nation. He 
 saw the situation, and his efforts in the matter of the correcting of 
 these wrongs were ne^er relaxed. 
 
 We pursued those investigations and that work led up to the nego- 
 tiations and ratification of the supplementary agreement of 1902. 
 We made four separate and distinct efforts before we could bring 
 
826 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 about the negotiation of a treaty that was satisfactory to the Depart- 
 ment of the Interior, to the Government of the United States, and to 
 the Indians. The fourth and final treaty ^Yas executed on the 20th 
 of March, 1902, and ratified by Congress on the 1st of July, 1902. 
 
 The Department of the Interior had realized that the origmal 
 treaty of 1898 was insufficient for the settlement of the matters for 
 the allotment of the lands or for the carrying out of the Govern- 
 ment's policies. They appealed to the principal chief of the Choctaw 
 Nation and to the governor of the Chickasaw Nation and to us, be- 
 cause throughout that entire period we were -as much officers of the 
 Government of the United States for all practical purposes as the 
 United States Indian agent, as the Indian inspector, as the chief of 
 the Indian police, or any other Federal inspector over that country. 
 Throughout all of that 'time, from 1899 to 1905— when we had our 
 differences with the then Secretary of the Interior, Mr. Hitchcock— 
 throughout all that period the Government of the United States 
 looked to the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish to see to it 
 that its work in connection with the Choctaws and the Chickasaws 
 was carried on, and we were not only in harmony but in actual co- 
 operation Avith the officers of the Government of the United States. 
 T-hey appealed to the governors to make a new treaty, because they 
 stated frankly that the original treaty of 1898 was insufficient, and 
 that under that treaty it was impossit)le for the Government to ac- 
 complish the work undertaken in that country. We said to the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior on behalf of the Choctaws and Chickasaws, and 
 to the Dawes Commission, to the United States Indian agent, to the 
 United States Indian inspector, and to every official of the Govern- 
 ment in that country and at Washington that the Choctaw Indians 
 and the Chickasaw Indians would agree and that they would give 
 their assent to the ratification of a new agreement that would accom- 
 plish the purposes of the Government c.i the United States, if, as a 
 price for that consent, they would agree to a retrial of these citi- 
 zenship cases. That was an agreement on the part of the Govern- 
 ment of the United States and the Choctaws and Chickasaws, and 
 when the treaty was written a provision was inserted for the retrial 
 of these cases. As I say, that treaty was ratified on July 1, 1902, 
 and by a vote of the Choctaws and Chickasaws on the 25th of August, 
 1902, it was accepted, and it thus became the law. 
 
 We were met in the matter of the ratification of that agreement, 
 gentlemen, by the combined force and power and influence and 
 means of these 4,000 people. They were in possession of the lands 
 of the Choctaws and Chickasaws; they were occupying the lands; 
 they were tilling the lands; they were collecting rents from those 
 lands, and the Choctaws and Chickasaws, in their efforts from 1899 
 to 1902 to bring about a retrial of these cases, were met by those 
 influences, and it was only after the bitterest political campaign ever 
 known in the history of the Choctaws and Chickasaws that the sup- 
 plemental agreement of 1902 was ratified. 
 
 Now, with reference to the character of those cases, with refer- 
 ence to the things which enabled us to convince the Congress of the 
 United States that those cases ought to be retried. Wlien they were 
 first filed with the Dawes Commission in 1896, they were supported 
 by affidavits; there were no proceedings, except the filing of affi- 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 827 
 
 davits in support of their claims. When they were appealed to the 
 United States courts some depositions were taken. 
 
 I am now going to refer, gentlemen, to five or six of those cases 
 T- J u"*" ^^^^ ^^® fairly typical of the entire number subsequently 
 tried before the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court. 
 
 I will take first the case of Julia London i-. the Choctaw- Chicka- 
 saw Nations. Some 38 persons were involved in that case, and 
 property of the tribes had been taken having a value of probably 
 $200,000. The allotments were worth about $5,000 apiece, and that 
 would be approximately $200,000 worth of property. When that 
 case came to be tried before the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship 
 court, gentlemen, it was found that every syllable of testimony— it 
 was found that everything that had been furnished in the way of 
 testimony before the United States court was manufactured out of 
 the whole cloth. The people whose names were specified as having 
 given the evidence came before the Choctaw- Chickasaw citizenship 
 court and said they had never left their homes. That evidence was 
 manufactured, as I say, out of the whole cloth. The notaries before 
 whom the affidavits were represented to have been taken had no 
 existence. The seals were made evidently for the purpose. That, 
 gentlemen of the committee, is the London case. 
 
 Another case was the case of Cobb. In the conduct of these cases 
 this system was adopted, gentlemen, by the claimants. The appli- 
 cants who came into that country under the law of 1896 to acquire 
 this property would pick from the records of the Choctaw Nation in 
 the State of Mississippi a name. In the case to which I refer there 
 were involved probably 15 people and probably $400,000 or $500,000 
 worth of property of the Choctaw and Chickasaws. Those people 
 alleged before the- Dawes Commission and proved to the satisfaction 
 of the United States courts that they were the descendants of Capt. 
 Sam Cobb. Capt. Cobb was a Choctaw. Capt. Cobb had his status 
 in the affairs of the old Choctaw Nation in the State of Mississippi ; 
 his name was upon the records and he, in his day, was a well recog- 
 nized Choctaw Indian. These people alleged that they were the de- 
 scendants of Capt. Cobb, and they proved it to the satisfaction of 
 the United States court. We adopted this plan to meet that. We 
 said, "We do not care what your allegations are; we are going to 
 prove who you are and what you are." In that case we proved that 
 the ancestors ojf these people, for generations, had resided in the 
 State of South Carolina and had never been within 1,000 miles of the 
 Choctaw Nation. So much for the Cobb case. 
 
 There are many other like cases. The Durant case is anothei'. 
 The name Durant is famous in the Choctaw Nation. Mr. William 
 Durant has been high in the political government of the State of 
 Oklahoma, and the name of Durant is a well-known Choctaw name. 
 There was the case of P. D. Durant and others, involving probably 
 between 40 and 50 people and from $300,000 to $400,000 worth of 
 property of the Choctaws and Chickasaws. They claimed to be de- 
 scendants from an ancestor of the name of Durant, who was on the 
 Choctaw roll, a well-recognized Choctaw Indian. We traced them 
 into Texas, where they had always lived. . They had never been m 
 the State of MississipJDi where the Choctaws originally resided, nor 
 in the Indian Territory until very recent years, and their name for 
 
828 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 « 
 
 generations and generations, as shown by their deeds and wills and 
 other legal documents was "Duren," and they never, until they 
 moved to the Choctaw Nation in recent years and sought rights as 
 Choctaw citizens, made any claim that their name was " Durant." 
 
 A favorite method in those days, in order to support these claims 
 before the Dawes Commission and before the United States courts, 
 was to take probably a dozen old decrepit Indian and negro men and 
 women and make use of them in a wholesale way. The claimants 
 thus prepared many of these fraudulent cases. The name of one of 
 these old negroes was Lige Colbert. I have no records now of the 
 proceedings before the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court and 
 speak from memory. Lige Colbert was a witness, I will say, in a 
 dozen cases. He was the principal witness. They made use of this 
 testimony more than any other testimony in the cases. 
 
 We brought this old man before the citizenship court. He had 
 been their star witness. Upon his testimony probably 250 people 
 had wrongly been admitted to Choctaw and Chickasaw citizenship. 
 Upon his testimony property of probably $1,000,000 was taken. 
 We brought him before the court for cross-examination in order 
 that the court might see and be convinced of the methods that had 
 been originally employed in the trial of the cases before the Dawes 
 Commission and before the United States court. We brought him 
 before the court and confronted him with his former evidence. We 
 had him testify in the presence of the court that Spencer B. Adams, 
 who by the way, was the chief judge of the citizenship court, was 
 a full-blood Choctaw ; also, that Walter L. Weaver, the second 
 member of the court was a horse trader in the State of Mississippi, 
 and the like over several pages. So much for Lige Colbert. 
 
 The next case I will mention is the Arnold case. I think there 
 were between 35 and 40 people involved in the Arnold case, involv- 
 ing tribal property of the value of $200,000 to $300,000. Martha 
 Arnold is living now. The Arnolds, two of them are in the city of 
 Washington now, and have been here for years and are prominent in 
 their advocacy of the claims of the Mississippi Choctaws, J. E. 
 Arnold and Wood H. Arnold. They now pose in the sentimental 
 newspapers as Indians. Those people are the sons of Martha 
 Arnold. It is possible she has died lately, but I think she is still 
 living. She claimed to be a Choctaw Indian and entitled to a 
 status in the records of the Choctaw Nation in the State of Missis- 
 sippi. They proved to the satisfaction of the United States court 
 for the central district of Indian Territory that they were Choc- 
 taw Indians, and were admitted and went into possession of a 
 vast amount of property in the Choctaw-Chickasaw Nation. She 
 claimed to be a Choctaw Indian residing in the State of Mississippi. 
 We said, "We are going to establish who you are and what you 
 are." I should say that the taking of testimony in that case cost, 
 roughly speaking, $2,500. 
 
 I should say that the expenses incurred in the Ai^nold case were 
 $2,500 from the beginning to end. We proved conclusively that 
 Martha Arnold was born as a slave in Prince Edward County, Va. 
 We went to Virginia aftd found that there were old negroes living 
 and other people "\Aho knew her and had known her in childhood. 
 She was born a slave in the State of Virginia, in Prince Edward 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 829 
 
 County, at Green Bay. She was taken in a drove of slaves from the 
 State of Virginia to Coweta County, Ga., prior to the war. We 
 proved by whom she was bought and by whom taken. There she 
 was bought and owned by Arnold, who was a white man, a slave 
 holder, and who is the father of these two men who are here now and 
 who are still posing as Choctaw Indians. They are the children 
 of a slave woman by a white father. In later years Martha Arnold 
 went first to Arkansas and then to Indian Territory. She may 
 have passed through the State of Mississippi on that journey; but 
 instead of being a Choctaw Indian, instead of being entitled to the 
 rights of Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship, she was never in the State 
 of Mississippi and never within a thousand miles, or whatever the 
 distance is, from Virginia to Mississippi. She was born a slave in 
 Vireinia and was carried in a drove of slaves, as they were fre- 
 quently taken at that time, from Prince Edward County, Va., to 
 Coweta County, Ga., and there had children by her master, and 
 there remained until after the war, and thence after the war she 
 moved with the family to the State of Arkansas, and thence came to 
 the Indian Territory later on. 
 
 There are many other such cases, gentlemen, but I believe that is 
 enough on that point. I could consume a vast amount of time in 
 giving details of these cases. 
 
 In the position we took in 1899 against these claimants we were 
 supported by the principal chief of the Choctaw N'ation and by the 
 governor of the Chickasaw Nation and by the officers of the Gov- 
 ernment of the United States, after they were convinced that these 
 wrongs had been done. I say we were successful, and if there is 
 anything for which we are entitled to credit it is that we were able 
 to so submit the facts we fovind to be true to the Congress of the 
 United States in such a way that it was convinced that a solemn 
 obligation rested upon Congress to provide for the retrial of those 
 cases and for the doing of justice between those people on the one 
 side and the Choctaws and Chickasaws on the other. 
 
 Now, gentlemen, with reference to the citizenship court. It was 
 created imder the act of July 1, 1902, known as the supplementary 
 agreement. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Before you leave that subject I want to ask 
 you, first — I do not imderstand that it has been suggested in this 
 hearing that the rolls should be opened to admit anybody who was 
 not shown by the governmental records to be entitled to claim. You 
 have named some cases of glaring fraud. Let me ask you now if 
 there was ever any question of fraud as to the case of Nancy J. 
 Cooper and others, or any question as to their not being Indians? 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. In the Nancy Cooper case, Senator, I think the 
 question was, first, whether they were Choctaw Indians; and, sec- 
 ond, whether they were entitled under the treaty to share m the 
 lands. In that particular case I am not able to state definitely that 
 there was any case of glaring fraud. 
 
 Senator Owen. I should like to know about the Cooper case. 
 
 Mr CoENisH. I have something to say about the Cooper case my- 
 self. There were two hundred and some odd cases tried before the 
 Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I am just calling your attention to a list 
 of cases which were presented to me by Mr. Field yesterday on 
 
830 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 which I am informed the question of fraud was never raised, or any 
 question of their being Indians by blood. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I will not agree with that at all, we do not concede 
 they were Indians by blood and entitled to share in the distribution 
 of tribal property. I am not able to say from my present recollec- 
 tion in that particular case that there was the perpetration of a 
 glaring fraud, or of such fraud as I have enumerated here in these 
 other cases. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was there any evidence of any fraud in 
 those two cases? 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. I can not say. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I want to ask you about the case of Lew 
 Bumgarner. 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. I do not remember that case. I do not think that 
 case was before the citizenship court. I think I remember by title 
 all of the cases that were before the citizenship court. 
 Senator La Follette. Was that before the court ? 
 Mr. Field. No, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I wish to ask you about the case of Joseph 
 W. Gamblin and others. Have you any recollection of any fraud in 
 that case? 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. I would not be able to say. The records in the 
 
 Indian OiEce 
 
 Senator La Follette. Have you any recollection of the case of 
 Robert Goings and others? 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. There was a claim of fraud in that case, 
 was there? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir ; worlds of it. 
 Senator White. Can you tell us what that was? 
 Mr. Cornish. I have not a definite recollection of the records. 
 The records are in the Indian Office. I know that we sent an in- 
 spector to southern Texas. They had lived for generations on the 
 border of Texas and were possessed, as we were able to show to the 
 court, if not of all white blood, of some Mexican blood, and we sent 
 an inspector there, and I am able to say positively that there was 
 fraud and wrongdoing in that case. 
 
 Senator La Follette. How about the case of John R. Kirk and 
 :^fplh1dn Kirk? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I do not think that case was before the citizenship 
 court, Senator. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I am not certain that it was, but it was 
 before the commission, if not before the citizenship court. 
 Mr. Cornish. Possibly so. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Take the case of John Mitchell and others. 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir; that was a bad case. 
 Senator La Follette. That was a bad case? 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. There was fraud in that case, was there ? 
 Mr. Cornish. I am only saying how I regarded it. Understand it 
 
 was not necessary 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was there any evidence of fraud in that 
 <ase? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I think so; yes, sir. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 831 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are you certain about it?' 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I would make that statement quite positively, sir. 
 There was plenty of it all along the line. 
 
 Please let me say this in fairness to myself. It was not necessary 
 for the Choctaw-Chickasaw citizenship court to reach a conclusion 
 of fraud in these cases. We brought about these investigations and 
 established these facts in order that it might be known that a retrial 
 was fair and just — was demanded by the facts. The position we 
 took and gave voice to that proposition of law, that blood alone was 
 not sufficient. In the early trial of these cases before the United 
 States court, when the allegation of Choctaw blood was made upon 
 the affidavits of Lige Colbert and like witnesses, the attorneys of the 
 Choctaw-Chickasaw Nations held up their hands and surrendered, 
 and they were thus admitted upon that single issue. We took the posi- 
 tion in the trial of these cases that blood alone was not sufficient — 
 that blood was the first essential requisite, but that in addition to that 
 it had to be shown that they or their ancestors had complied with the 
 obligations of the treaties under which the lands were acquired in 
 which they were seeking to fix an interest. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And they had lived a reasonable length of 
 time within the territory? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. As to Mississippi Choctaws; no. 
 
 Senator La Follette. As to the others ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. As to the others ; yes. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was there any evidence of fraud in the 
 case of Joseph C. Moore and others ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. That was wholly a question of law. No facts were 
 considered in that case. In the Joseph C. Moore case no allegation 
 of blood was made. Colbert Moore was the ancestor through whom 
 they claimed, and because of some service or alleged service which 
 he had performed in the old Choctaw Nation in the State of Missis- 
 sippi he was given some land. He was given property under one of 
 the early treaties in the Choctaw Nation, and because of the fact that 
 that gratuity had been conferred upon him ; because of the fact that 
 that service, whatever it was, had been rendered; because of the 
 recognition of that service in the State of Mississippi and the fact 
 that his name was upon the records in that way these people insisted 
 that citizenship rights were conferred upon all his descendants for 
 
 all time to come. . ,r Txr n^ 
 
 Senator La Follette. I will ask you about the case ot M. W. Mc- 
 
 Carley and others. , j. .1 i. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I do not think such a case was before the court. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Or before the commission ? 
 
 Mr Cornish. Do you know, Senator, that perhaps 100,000 people 
 had asserted rights of citizenship in the Choctaw-Chickasaw Nations ? 
 I do not think, however, that case was before the citizenship court. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I am just directing your attention to these 
 cases with a view of finding out if I can whether they come within 
 the class of cases which you have presented to the committee as 
 being so reprehensible. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes; and I could present many more of the same 
 character as those I have referred to. t> wi. • 
 
 Senator La Follette. I have no doubt there were. -But the in- 
 nocent should not suffer for that reason. 
 
832 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. CoENiSH. I do not think there were any innocents, Senator, 
 in the class I am referring to, so far as citizenship rights are con- 
 cerned. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you recall the case of Abraham H. Nail 
 and others? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I think it was before the citizenship court. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you state that there was any fraud, 
 shown in that case? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I am not able to make a statement in regard to that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. How about the case of Virginia Savage and 
 others ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I do not think she was before the citizenship court. 
 
 Senator La Follette. She was before the commission, however? 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. Yes, sir. Right at that point let me talk about the 
 Virginia Savage case. Mr. Ballinger made the statement that she 
 appeared before the Dawes Commission at Pauls Valley to get per- 
 mission to transfer her residence to another State to 
 
 Senator La Follette. To Colorado Springs, I think, on account of 
 her health. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. As a matter of fact, the law fixing the arbitrary 
 time within which residence should be was contained in the act of 
 June 28, 1898. Now, mark what I say ; I was present as an employee 
 of the Dawes Commission when that meeting at Pauls Valley was 
 held. That was in September, 1898, three months after the passage 
 of that law. I simply want to get that contradiction of fact in the 
 record plainly with reference to the Virginia Savage case. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you s,ay she did not appear and make 
 that request on the ground of it being the advice of her physician 
 That she must change her residence ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. No, sir; I have no knowledge of her appearance or 
 nonappearance. I do state that the meeting of the Dawes Commis- 
 sion was in September, 1898, and that the act requirii^ residence was 
 passed on the 28th of June, 1898, two or three months prior thereto. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I ask you now about the case of A. A. 
 Springs and others? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir; that was a bad case. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was there evidence of fraud in that case? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes; according to my view. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Where will that be found ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. In the records of the Indian Office. We took very 
 voluminous testimony in that case in the State of Louisiana. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you recall about that case? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. We will be perfectly clear on this question of 
 fraud 
 
 Senator La Follette. Wait a moment. Do you recall in regard 
 to the Spring case ; was there evidence of any distinct fraud in that 
 case? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I would draw a distinction between that case and 
 these I have cited here. 
 
 Senator La Follette. My attention is called to the fact that Mr. 
 Springs was a school trustee for many years. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. A great many people, Senator, were given money 
 and favors, and the reason the Government of the United States took 
 
INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 833 
 
 from the hands of the Indiana themselves the right to fix citizenship 
 was not so much that they were denying citizenship to people entitled 
 to citizenship but because citizenship was easy to be procured through 
 the Choctaw Council and the Chickasaw Legislature. Capt. Mc- 
 Kennon was one of the best men who has ever been in the Govern- 
 ment service. He was not the chairman of the Dawes Commission, 
 but he had more to do with those matters than any other one man. 
 In the reports which Capt. McKennon prepared at that time he said 
 that these designing white people who had drifted in there hoping 
 to share in these rich lands, would procure themselves to be placed 
 on the I'olls by improper means, through an act of recognition by the 
 Choctaw Council, and that is one of the strongest reasons the Govern- 
 ment of the United States took the power from their hands so they 
 would not and could not injure themselves. It was for that reason 
 more than for any other. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was Mr. Springs a white man or an Indian ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. He claimed to be an Indian. The court found other- 
 wise. The court found that they had lived always in the State of 
 Louisiana. They drifted out into the Indian country 15 or 20 years 
 ago, but prior thereto had lived always in the State of Louisiana, 
 near the town of Amite City, just north of New Orleans. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I understand the citizenship court found 
 otherwise, but I ask you if you know of your own knowledge whether 
 he was an Indian, or part Indian ? 
 
 Mr. CoiixiSH. I am only telling you that' he asserted his Indian 
 blood, and we proved to the satisfaction of the court that he was 
 not an Indian. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes ; to the citizenship court. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I would call him a white man. It is barely possible 
 that he had some degree of Indian blood. I do not know. 
 
 Senator White. Before you leave that point, I understood you to 
 state that these were white people that were admitted to the rolls 
 by the Federal court, and I want to know if they were all white 
 people that you say were improperly admitted. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I do not see how we could avoid the conclusion that 
 the finding of the court was that they were not Indians and were 
 not entitled to citizenship. 
 
 Senator White. I am asking you as a fact, were all these people 
 that were admitted by the Federal court white people and none of 
 them Indians? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Practically so ; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Who was the judge of that court? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Judge Clayton, who is now living at McAlester. 
 He was the United States judge for the central district of the Terri- 
 tory. Judge Townsend was the judge for the southern district. 
 
 Senator White. They were men of character and ]udges of ability 5 
 
 Mr Cornish. Senator, I would not say otherwise. They were 
 imposed upon in the trial of those cases. The cases were not sub- 
 mitted upon sufficient evidence. They were not properly contested, 
 they went by default, practically. Practically all of them went by 
 default. There was no defense. 
 
 Senator Owen. They were decided on affidavits? 
 
 82833 — VOL 1 — 15 53 
 
834 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. CoEKisH. No ; some depositions. The affidavits originally filed 
 with the Dawes Commission went on up as a part of the record to 
 the United States court, and I will say that the great majority of 
 the decisions were on affidavits. 
 
 Senator White. Wholly on ex parte affidavits? 
 
 Mr. CoENiSH. Yes, sir; of Lige Colbert, for instance. I wish to 
 be thoroughly serious and entirely aware of the importance of this. 
 This man Lige Colbert had affidavits in, I will say, 15 to 30 cases, 
 and he was one of the many old Indians and old negroes who were 
 made use of in the preparation of these affidavits in the original 
 trials of the cases, and those affidavits went up to the United States 
 court and were before the court as a basis for many of the decisions. 
 
 Senator Thompson. They wg- e nearly all ex parte statements ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir; entirely before the Dawes Commission. 
 
 Senator White. Was that permissible under the rules of that court 
 to accept ex parte affidavits? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. They were accepted. Senator. 
 
 Senator White. Generally? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. May I ask you one question? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes ; of couse, I am here at the pleasure of the com- 
 mittee and I should be glad, gentlemen, as some one said yesterday, 
 this is a vast subject and there is so much of it, I do know about these 
 things. Perhaps there are some things I do not know about, but I 
 think I may be permitted to say, without egotism, that I know. more 
 about these matters than any living human being. I could consume 
 much more of the committee's time, and I am perfectly willing to go 
 just as far as the committee wishes me to go. There are a few things 
 I particularly wish to say and I must hurry along. 
 
 Senator Owen. I should like Mr. Cornish to complete his state- 
 ment before Mr. Ballinger interposes. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I have just a brief question on the very point he 
 is speaking about. Is it a fact that your firm went into the United 
 States courts and did pufge the judgments in the United States 
 courts of names that you thought had been fraudulently placed 
 therein ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Before we saw there was any hope of a retrial of 
 these cases, as a class, we went into the United States court for the 
 southern district of the Indian Territory and had stricken from 
 those judgments some 200 names that had been written into the 
 proceedings. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How was that done ? What was the procedure, 
 briefly? , 
 
 Mr. Cornish. We simply filed a motion to correct the judgment ; 
 filed a motion setting up the facts and satisfied the court that such 
 were the facts; it was only necessary to examine the record to see 
 that 200 names had been physically added to the proceedings. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What did that imply, physically added, how ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Written in. They were not parties to the original 
 proceedings. .» 
 
 Senator Robinson. Did the practice prevail there, when a judg- 
 ment had been entered by the court, to permit attorneys 
 
 Mr. Cornish, Yes, sir. 
 
ijstdian appkopbiation bill. 83^ 
 
 Senator Robinson. That was done by writing in the judgment 
 names of parties not properly before the court ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir. 
 _ Senator Robinson. And in those fraud cases you had no difficulty 
 m calling attention to the fact that these parties were not on the 
 record and therefore could not obtain judgment? 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. Yes, sir ; that was done prior to the time we really 
 believed we would ever be able to bring about a new tribunal for the 
 trial of the cases on their merits. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You asked that the judgment be set aside 
 for fraud and the cases reopened ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. No, sir; we did just what I stated. We called at- 
 tention that these parties — brothers and sisters usually of the original 
 parties — were not actual parties to the case. 
 
 Senator Ija Follette. You did not apply to the courts to have the 
 whole matter set aside for fraud? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. No, sir; we did not. May I now proceed? 
 
 Senator Owen. You may proceed. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. With reference to the manner in which the citizen- 
 ship court proceeded, the court was composed of Judge Adams, a 
 distinguished lawyer from North Carolina; Judge Foote, Henry S. 
 Foote, the son of Henry S. Foote, whose name is written on the 
 pages of this history of this country as a distinguished Senator of 
 the State of Mississippi ; Judge Walter S. Weaver, of Ohio, a mem- 
 ber of this Congress for a good many years, a distinguished man and 
 a distinguished lawyer. That court was organized in 1902 after the 
 ratification of this agreement. 
 
 As was stated yesterday, by Mr. Ballinger, two questions of law 
 were submitted to the court. If a man had asserted Choctaw citizen- 
 ship when the case was first filed the case Was entitled " John Smith 
 versus the Choctaw Nation," and on the other hand it would be " John 
 Smith versus the Chickasaw Nation." We took the position that as 
 a question of law both the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations should 
 have been joined. That was the entering wedge ; that was the reason 
 we were able to furnish Congress a legal reason for undoing that 
 which appeared to have been finally done. We maintained that the 
 purpose of that proceeding was not to establish political citizenship ; 
 but that the purpose of that proceeding was to absolutely fix an in- 
 terest in the physical property of the Choctaws and Chickasaws, in 
 the lands of the Choctaws and Chickasaws, all held in common, " so 
 that each and every member of either tribe shall have an equal, un- 
 divided interest in the whole." We took the position that the orig- 
 inal proceedings were irregular because of the fact that both the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations were not parties to the suit, since 
 they owned the land sought to be affected by the prpceedings. 
 
 The questions of law were to be submitted to the Choctaw-Chicka- 
 saw citizenship court. The other was whether or not the United 
 States courts erred in the trial of the cases de novo. The test case 
 was " Riddle versus the Choctaws and Chickasaws." The court sus- 
 tained those two questions of law. 
 
 Something has been said here this morning, gentlemen, about the 
 efforts of certain applicants before the citizenship court to remove 
 themselves from the jurisdiction of the citizenship court by dismissal. 
 
836 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 When the citizenship court held affirmatively on those two questions 
 of law it thus set aside all decisions of the United States court tor 
 the central and southern districts of the Indian Territory. When 
 the test case was decided all of those judgments were set aside. 1 
 wish the committee to note this statement particularly. 
 
 Senator Owen. You had better have inserted m the record that 
 provision establishing the citizenship court. Without objection, that 
 will be directed to be inserted at this point. 
 
 (Here insert sections 31, 32, and 33, act of July 1, 1902, Statutes 
 at Large, vol. 32, p. 646.) 
 
 Mr. CoExisn. These cases were not brought to the citizenship 
 court voluntarily by the applicants. They had no power to dismiss 
 those cases. They were forced into the citizenship court by the 
 power of the Government of the United States, because the Govern- 
 ment of the United States was convinced, as a fact, that so many 
 frauds and so many wrongs had been perpetrated that there was a 
 reason for the retrial of those cases upon the real facts. When the 
 test case was decided, that invalidated all of the judgments that the 
 United States courts had found. I say that by way of meeting the 
 assertion made here this morning that these people sought to remove 
 themselves from the jurisdiction of the citizenship court and were 
 denied the privilege to do so. They were forced there by the wis- 
 dom of the Congress of the United States for the purpose of having 
 their cases tried upon their merits. If they saw fit to then apply 
 to the citizenship court upon the facts, they could do so ; if not, their 
 cases stood adversely decided by the decision in the test case. 
 
 These three men adopted a rule which placed the testimony-taking 
 power of that court with all necessary money of the Government of 
 the United States behind it. They adopted a rule that upon the 
 application of either party, a judge of that court would go anywhere 
 in the United States, or in the civilized world for that matter, and 
 sit and take testimony on behalf of these claimants or on behalf of 
 the nation. There was never a proceeding like it in the world so 
 far as I know ; never a tribunal that was organized with a purpose of 
 so fully protecting the rights of all litigants before that court. I will 
 say that members of that court went and took testimony in probably 
 50 places in the State of Texas. They took testimony in the State 
 of Louisiana in probably a dozen ditlerent places. They took testi- 
 mony in many places in the State of Mississippi upon application of 
 either the nations or the applicants. Testimony was taken in the 
 State of Mississippi under the direction of and actually by a judge 
 of that court in probably 50 places. Testimony was taken in, say, 
 a dozen places in Alabama; in five or six places in South Carolina 
 and in several places in North Carolina; in three or four places in 
 Virginia; in one or two in West Virginia and some places in Ken- 
 tucky, and some in other States. 
 
 Some few of these people had chosen to submit their cases upon the 
 affidavits that had come there from the United States courts and 
 no testimony was taken. They did not apply to have any testimony 
 taken. They sought to hold themselves free from the power of the 
 court, and a few default judgments were taken against people who 
 refused to so submit themselves to the court and who had every 
 opportunity for the establishment of their rights there if in fact 
 they had any. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 837 
 
 Now, something has been said about this Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 citizenship court having been a legislative court. It was a legis- 
 lative court ; but, gentlemen, please do not let us lose sight of the fact 
 that the judgments of the United States courts which this court re- 
 viewed were also rendered by legislative courts. The Dawes Com- 
 mission, under the act of 1896, was a legislative body; that was an 
 arm of the United States Government sitting in these matters, and 
 it decided against the applicants. They were then appealed to the 
 United States courts. The jurisdiction that the United States courts 
 exercised is not entitled to any more respect and possesses no more 
 weight than the jurisdiction conferred upon this citizenship court. 
 The United States courts in the Indian Territory were not con- 
 stitutional courts. They were legislative courts organized in the 
 instance for the government of that new country; and then when 
 the Government of the United States sought to confer upon them 
 this additional jurisdiction to retry these citizenship cases, that was 
 a legislative jurisdiction which Congress definitely conferred, and 
 that was the same general character of jurisdiction that was con- 
 ferred on the citizenship court. The argument was sought to be 
 made that these judgments were final. They were final under the 
 law under which they were originally rendered. 
 
 Xow, the first thing that the ChoctaAvs and Chickasaws did to 
 obtain relief (before we had anything to do with these matters), as 
 early as 1898, was to secure the right of appeal to the United States 
 Supreme Court. They felt their rights had been outraged ; they felt 
 that these people were in possession of millions upon millions of 
 dollars in value of their propert}' by fraud and wrongdoing. The 
 then attorneys for the Choctaws and Chickasaws secured a provi- 
 sion in the Indian appropriation act of 1898, I think it was, provid- 
 ing for an appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States. That 
 appeal was taken and these judgments were affirmed by the Supreme 
 Court of the United States. But how ? It was distinctly provided 
 in the law of 1898 that the appeal should be solely and wholly and 
 only upon the question of the constitutionality and validity of the 
 original legislation of 1896. 
 
 Now, so much for that. 
 
 Before leaving the matter of these proceedings in the United 
 States courts and these proceedings in the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 citizenship courts and before passing to one or two others matters — — 
 
 Senator Owen. As I remember it, in this Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 citizenship court there was a test case made up that should deter- 
 mine the question of jurisdiction, and so forth 
 
 Senator La Follette. That was the Eiddle case? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir. That is the Eiddle case. There were two 
 questions of law heard in that case and its decision was against the 
 claimants and in favor of the nations. This had the effect of mval- 
 idating all the judgments of the United States courts. 
 
 Senator White. I want to ask one question. This property, as 
 I understand, was owned by the two tribes, as tenants in common? 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. Yes, sir; each and every member 
 
 Senator White. And not in different moities or shares ? 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. No, sir; "so that each and every member of either 
 tribe shall have an equal undivided interest in the whole." 
 
838 INDIAN" APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator White. What I mean is that the ownership of both tribes 
 ran throughout the entire lands ? 
 
 Mr. CoENiSH. That is correct. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. That was the reason for requiring them both 
 to be made parties to the suit. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. That is the position we took and the court sustained 
 us, but that did, not violate the rights of the applicants. So, to make 
 the matter clear, I specially call the committee's attention to the 
 right of the applicant to have his case tried upon its merits. They 
 had also the power and resources of the United States in the matter 
 of taking their testimony. 
 
 Senator White. Was that decision of the court ever appealed? 
 With regard to the Riddle case, was that ever appealed ? 
 
 jNIr. CoENisH. Not directly. But the legislation creating the citi- 
 zenship court in a certiorari proceeding was taken by the applicant to 
 the Supreme Court. 
 
 And now a few of these people refused to submit to the jurisdiction 
 of the citizenship court. But a few of them refused to do that. We 
 thought, of course, and I think it is proper to say here that they felt 
 they had no meritorious cases and therefore let judgment go against 
 them by default. 
 
 Now, gentlemen, in justice to myself, this is a time for plain speak- 
 .ing, and I esteem it a privilege to have this opportunity to speak 
 plainly. Much has been said about our contract. Gentlemen, when 
 we undertook that work these people were not only on the rolls, but 
 they were in actual physical possession of the lands of the Choc- 
 taws and Chickasaws of the value of $20,000,000. They were not 
 only on the rolls, but they were in possession of the land. They were 
 using the land. That was the condition that confronted us. Gov. 
 Johnston and Gov. McCurtain appealed to us to see what we could 
 do to induce Congress to create a court for the retrial of these cases. 
 We did not go into the matter of our compensation until after we 
 had gone far enough to see that there was a reasonable probability 
 that we could accomplish something in the way of relief. In the fall 
 of 1901 we conferred with the governors as to Avhat should be done 
 in the matter of our compensation. Acts of the Choctaw Council and 
 the Chickasaw Legislature were passed for that purpose and in a 
 public way. 
 
 It was charged yesterday that the contract was a secret one. The 
 contracts were made under acts of the Chickasaw Legislature and 
 the Choctaw Council, and they were passed as all other public 
 business of the tribes was transacted. Under those ac^is we made a 
 contract specifically designating this class of people and the work to 
 be done under that contract, and we fixed the value of a prospective 
 allotment at $4,800. Some said an allotment was worth $4,000, some 
 placed the value at $5,000, others estimated the value at $6,000, and 
 we provided that our compensation should be 9 per cent of the value 
 of the property actually recovered, actually taken from the pos- 
 session of those people and restored to our clients, the rightful 
 owners. A lawyer in our country or in your State or in any other 
 State who receives through the mail a claim upon a druggist, a 
 merchant, or a butcher charges 10 per cent if he goes out and collects 
 the monej" and buys a bank draft and remits. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 839 
 
 We thought the rate of compensation was reasonable ; and, gentle- 
 men, our grievance is that we were not permitted to have the full 
 benefit of the 9 per cent contract. Instead of our compensation being 
 $750,000, gentlemen, we were entitled to 9 per cent of the whole 
 value restored, and that was about $20,000,000. Now, gentlemen, do 
 not condemn us — and I am not suggesting that there is any con- 
 demnation proposed — but do not find fault with us because we col- 
 lected a fee of $750,000. Take into consideration the work that 
 was to be done. Take into consideration the opposing forces against 
 which we had to contest for many years, and take into consideration 
 the fact that we took bur very lives into our hands in the performance 
 of this work. I am not saying that as a matter of credit due. I am 
 simply stating a bald, bare fact that this was a work of vast magni- 
 tude. I think, considering the amount fixed in the contracts, attor- 
 neys for claimants that are floating around, to which reference has 
 been made, that our contract was the most reasonable one that has 
 ever been made. We performed the services, we delivered the prop- 
 erty back to its rightful owners. We brought about a righting of 
 these wrongs, and for that we were paid about 4 per cent of the 
 amount recovered and restored back to these tribes. 
 
 This contract was executed in the fall of 1901. The statement was 
 made yesterday that this was a secret contract. That statement is 
 just as untrue as many other statements that have been made. It 
 had to be executed before a judge of a court of record. Judge 
 Clayton was the man who had originally tried these cases. There 
 was much criticism of him in that country; we were bitterly op- 
 posed ; we were allied with the Choctaws and Chickasaws who were 
 bitterly attacking the judgments, of Judge Clayton's court. Judge 
 Clayton and lawyers of the Federal court were allied with the fac- 
 tion bitterly opposed to our clients. We did not call on Judge 
 Clayton for obvious reasons. We were, to say the least, not on very 
 cordial terms with him. We went before the county judge of Gray- 
 son County, Tex., and the contract was executed. Grayson County- 
 is the first county in Texas across the Bed River from Indian Terri- 
 tory. And the statement was made yesterday that we ignored the 
 Secretary of the Interior and came to Congress to have fixed the 
 matter of our compensation. That contract was submitted to the 
 Secretary of the Interior. ^ ^, -r ^ ■ 
 
 The contract itself was submitted to the Secretary ot the Interior. 
 At that time we were in splendid standing with the Secretary, we 
 were hand in hand with him and his officials in that matter of see- 
 ing that the policies of the Government were being carried out to 
 the benefit of our clients and in harmony with the Government 
 policies. We submitted that to the Secretary of the Interior hop- 
 ing and believing that he would approve it and say that the com- 
 pensation was reasonable. . , j-j 
 
 Senator La Follette. How long before it was executed did you 
 
 Mr CoENisH. Perhaps two years. At the time of the execution 
 of this contract we did not have any forum or any tribunal for the 
 retrial of these cases. Bear in mind that the Choctaw and Chicka- 
 saw citizenship court did not come into being; I mean the forum tor 
 the trial of these cases did not come into being until July 1, 1902. 
 
840 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 We did not submit our contract for the approval of anyone until 
 we had brought about the creation of a forum for the trial o± these 
 cases and until we felt it reasonably probable that we could be ot 
 some benefit to our clients under that contract; and immediately 
 after that we submitted it to the Secretary for approval. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Was there not a forum in which you could 
 have appeared? 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. No, sir ; there was not. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Could you not have appeared before the 
 Federal court and asked to have the judgment set aside for fraud? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. No, sir. We might have done that, but we thought 
 it was useless. Immediately after that we submitted that contract to 
 the Secretary of the Interior for his approval and were outraged 
 that iie did not see fit to approve it because he knew the conditions 
 under which we undertook the work. His first proposition was that 
 he would approve the contract for $25,000; then he raised it to 
 $50,000, and then to $75,000, and then to $125,000, and his final ulti- 
 matum was $250,000. We did not see fit to accept that and with- 
 drew the contract. Later on the whole matter was submitted to 
 Congress, and Congress, in its wisdom, saw fit, in the Indian appro- 
 priation act of 1903, to provide that after the completion of the 
 work the court before whom the cases were tried should fix our 
 compensation; and, after all of the cases had been disposed of, we 
 submitted the contract to the court — the testimony of Judge Hill, 
 of Arkansas, who was the chief justice of the supreme court of that 
 State, and the testimony of many other distinguished lawyers 
 throughout the country, and had them make statements to the court 
 as to what, under all the circumstances, would, in their opinion, be 
 reasonable compensation. 
 
 We submitted that contract to that court and we urged the court 
 to approve the contract for 9 per cent. The Choctaws said that they 
 were willing to pay 9 per cent ; the Chickasaws said that they were 
 willing to pay 9 per cent. It was their property, the services had 
 been rendered to their great benefit, and the property had been de- 
 livered back to them, and we felt that the Secretary of the Interior, 
 in the first instance, and this court, in the second instance, should 
 have said that this was what those interested were willing to do and 
 that ought to be accepted. Instead of that they arbitrarily fixed the 
 comiJensation at $750,000, ^^hich was less than 4 per cent of the 
 amount actually recovered and restored back to our clients. As to 
 the reasonableness of the compensation we have no apologies to 
 make. Our feeling has always been that in view of the services 
 rendered and the conditions as they existed, we are entitled to the 
 entire 9 per cent. 
 
 Senator Thoimpson. Were the other attorneys paid that, or just 
 your firm? 
 
 Mr. CoENiSH. No; just our firm. We were attorneys for both 
 tribes. There were no other. 
 
 Now, then, just one or two other things, and I believe I am 
 through. I wish the committee to know this: That as a result of 
 those efforts by the payment to us of $750,000, the per capita value 
 of the property of every man, woman, and- child in the Chickasaw 
 Nation has been increased $800. An allotment at this time is worth 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 841 
 
 $800 more than it was worth. At this time an allotment is worth 
 $800 more than if we had not accomplished that work. 
 
 Senator Thompson. How long did it take you to do that work ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. We commenced our early work, Senator, in 1899 ; it 
 was completed in 1905. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Under this contract, I mean ? 
 
 Mr. CoExiSH. The contract dates from 1901—1901 to 1905. 
 
 Now then, with reference to certain rolls supposed to have been in 
 our office; that we had denied permission to applicants to have ac- 
 cess to the rolls of the Choctaw Nation. That statement I Imow — 
 I lost my head yesterday and characterized it as false. It is untrue. 
 Under the law of 1897 the rolls of the tribes were confirmed, and by 
 the law of 1898 the commission was directed — that was before the 
 matter of the retiial of these cases Mas e^'er thought of — to make up 
 the rolls. This commission sent its representati\es to Tishomingo, 
 the capital of the Chickasaw Nation, and took from the Indians the 
 then existing rolls. They likewise took over the Choctaw rolls. 
 The rolls of the Choctaw Nation and of the Chicakasaw Nation are 
 the leased district payment rolls of 1893, and census rolls of the 
 nation of 1896. These rolls went into the possession of the Dawes 
 Commission in 1897, and still are in the possession of that commis- 
 sion. In the prosecution of our work as we investigated this case 
 and that case and the other case, naturally we had access to whatever 
 records and books and papers the Choctaw Nation and the Chicka- 
 saw Nation had in the way of its government, and we took from the 
 vaults at Tushkahoma and Tishomingo whatever we could find 
 there that would throw any Hght on Avhat we were doing, and later 
 on, after our contract had expired, we turned over everything we 
 had to the Dawes Commission. 
 
 So far as having any rolls in our possession is concerned, and so 
 far as denying permission to anyone in the first place, we did not 
 have any rolls that could be considered rolls. There might have been 
 a memorandum book that was used in a preliminary way by some 
 county inspector in making up the rolls of 1893 or the census roll of 
 1896. I won't say that there were not some typewritten manuscript 
 records of those preliminary proceedings. There may have been. 
 Those matters wei-e all turned into our office. At one time we had a 
 force of 15 people engaged with us in this work. "We had a vast 
 organization, and those matters were all there. "We kept them there 
 until such time as our contract expired and our work ended, and 
 then they were turned o^er to the United States Government. 
 
 Something has been said about this man, William J. Thompson, 
 coming to our office and being denied permission to see the rolls. 
 William J. Thompson was the grandson of Samuel C. Wall. He 
 was a white man. 'There is no allegation that he was an Indian. He 
 resided in Mississippi, and when the affairs of the ChoctaAvs were 
 closed up in the State of Mississippi he was given an allotment of 
 land in recognition of some service he had performed. 
 
 It was in that way that the name of Samuel C. Wall appears in 
 the records of the Choctaw Nation. It was under that name and 
 status, upon that act of the Choctaw Nation in Mississippi, that 
 those numerous people based their rights to share in tribal property 
 and be placed upon the citizenship roll. That man's case was tried. 
 
842 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 As to. his case there is no roll involved. The facts were conceded. 
 He was the grandson of Samuel C. Wall. His father was Giles 
 Thompson, and Giles Thompson was the husband of a woman who 
 Avas the daughter of Samuel C. Wall. The question there was 
 whether that act of the Choctaws in Mississippi was limited to the 
 benefits which were conferred upon this individual man, Samuel C. 
 Wall, or whether that sent citizenship down all through the ages 
 and to all generations of descendants. That was the question in his 
 case, and that question was passed upon adversely. 
 
 Senator White. Where did they live all the while ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. They had lived in the Indian Territory for, I would 
 not say how long — 25 or 30 years. 
 
 Senator White. With the Choctaws? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. They lived in the Choctaw country. Other white 
 people were living there. The white people commenced to go into 
 that country immediately after the removal of the Choctaws to their 
 present domain. 
 
 Senator Thompson. I want to ask you a question as to the ex- 
 penses of this litigation. Who paid for the depositions? There 
 were expenses incurred, of course. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. You mean before the citizenship court? 
 
 Senator Thompson. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. As to traveling expenses and hotel bills, the United 
 States paid for the court and the litigants paid their expenses. 
 One member of the court always went and took testimony. 
 
 Now, about Mr. Beall. These things have been gone over for 
 years and years, and this is the first opportunity in recent years I 
 have had anything to be heard. The firm of Mansfield, McMurray 
 & Cornish employed him for one month. I think it was in 1902 
 or 1903, just before the beginning of the next fiscal year. The 
 appropriation for the support of the Dawes Commission was ex- 
 hausted, and the entire force of the Dawes Commission was dis- 
 charged until the beginning of the new fiscal year. Mr. Beall was 
 a splendid man, a good clerical man. At that time we were get- 
 ting ready to try these cases before the citizenship court. I wished 
 certain investigations of records and certain things to be done, and 
 we applied to Mr. Bixby, stating the need of expert clerical services, 
 such as Beall could furnish. 
 
 I made application to Mr. Bixby, and it was submitted to other 
 members of the commission as to whether there would be anything 
 improper in our employing him. We applied to Mr. Bixby and the 
 Dawes Commission to know whether or not there would be anything 
 improper for us to give Mr. Beall employment for one month, until 
 the work of the Dawes Commission should be resumed, on the 1st 
 of July. It never occurred to us that it was improper, and it cer- 
 tainly did not to the Dawes Commission, and we were permitted to 
 employ him. He worked day and night for the time, and he did 
 splendid work. Bear this in mind : The impression has been sought 
 to be made on this committee that he exercised certain duties in con- 
 nection with these cases and later on exercised his official power and 
 jurisdiction in passing upon those cases before the Dawes Commis- 
 sion. Get this, Senators. There was no connection between the 
 jurisdiction of the citizenship court and the jurisdiction of the 
 
INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 843 
 
 Dawes Commission in citizenship cases ; there was absolutely no con- 
 nection. I make that statement and leave it at that. The Dawes 
 Commission had its jurisdiction, and the jurisdiction of the citizen- 
 ship court was entirely separate and apart and distinct from any 
 jurisdiction of the Dawes Commission. 
 
 Senator Owen. So that Mr. Beall did not pass on his own case ? 
 
 Air. Cornish. He did not. The citizenship court cases were never 
 before the Dawes Commission. The jurisdiction of the citizenship 
 court imder the law was made absolutely final. So we employed him 
 as a clerk for one month, and he performed good service, with full 
 knowledge and consent of the members of the Dawes Commission. 
 Mr. Tams Bixby was chairman; Maj. Breckenridge, of Arkansas, 
 was a member, as was also Col. Thomas B. Needles. 
 
 Now, I have gone along here at random in an effort to explain all 
 of these matters. 
 
 Senator Owen. I would like to have you explain this so-called 
 " rush period " just before these rolls were concluded. 
 
 ]Mr. Cornish. I shall do that as best I can. 
 
 Senator Owen. I want to know whether or not those cases that 
 were heard in that rush period were denied any opportunity to be 
 heard lyr the Interior Department ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I think it is true, Senator, that in the closing days, 
 and with the vast amount of work that was being done, that a great 
 number of cases were disposed of in a very limited time, but the fact 
 remains that all of those cases had been pending for years and years 
 and years before the Dawes Commission and the department. Most 
 of these cases originated as far back as 1898, and it is true beyond a 
 doubt that there was not a single case that was finally disposed of 
 within this limited time. Most of these cases had been pending for 
 years, with records from 10 to 1,000 pages of typewriting. They had 
 gone back and forth from Muskogee on appeal from the Commis- 
 sioner of Indian Affairs to the Interior Department. 
 
 Senator White. Why were they not passed upon at the time they 
 were considered? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. They had been passed on by the authorities at Mus- 
 kogee. They originated in the Muskogee ofSce, and came on to the 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and from there to the Interior De- 
 partment. 
 
 Senator White. Did they get any consideration at the Interior 
 Department ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I think they did. 
 
 Senator White. Before 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I say, many of them had been back and forth for 
 vears. I would not say how many. 
 
 Senator White. What I wanted to know specifically was whether 
 or not they had been considered by the Secretary of the Interior? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir; I am sure they had. 
 
 Senator White. Why didn't he decide them when they were con- 
 sidered ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. He did decide them. 
 
 Senator Owen. Is it not a fact that a number of those cases in- 
 volved certain questions and were held subject to determination of 
 that question, and when that question was finally decided, they de- 
 cided groups of cases? 
 
844 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Eight at that point, I have endeavored to state it. 
 just as I understand it. I Imow that there were 2,000 and some odd 
 cases and that 80 per cent of those cases had been pending for 5 or 6 
 or 7 or 8 years, and that they originated at Muskogee, and were sent 
 to the Indian Office, and on to the Secretary of the Interior, and then 
 sent back for additional evidence, and I will say that as to the record 
 it will show that 80 per cent of those cases had been pending for 
 years and had made more than one trip to Washington and back. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But they had not been finally passed on by 
 the Secretary of the Interior until this rush period? 
 
 Mr. CoENiSH. Yes; I guess that is true; but I do not think it can 
 be said as to any of those cases that the applicants did not have ample 
 opportunity to have their cases considered and decided upon the 
 merits. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They were considered meritorious enough 
 by the Secretary of the Interior to be sent back for further testi- 
 mony ? 
 
 Ml-. Cornish. I am only speculating, but as to that, let us say, 
 for the purpose of illustration, that certain wrongs have been done 
 in the conduct of work where interests are as great as in this work. 
 It may be that some individual and specific cases of injury l»ad been 
 done, but this Congress in its wisdom, as I understand, upon a list 
 submitted by the Secretary of the Interior — I have been out of touch 
 with these matters for some years — but is it not true that some 300 
 people, on the recommendation of the Secretary of the Interior, 
 were admitted by a special act of Congress only last year ? 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes ; that is true. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I have no interest in those matters, but if, perchance, 
 wrongdoing or injustice was done in this period I should say, gen- 
 tlemen, as to one case, with all due respect to Congress, that Con- 
 gress made a mistake. It may be that on that list of 300 some of 
 them were meritorious. That may be or may not be true. But I 
 do know this Nichols case, if I know anything, and with reference 
 to my laiowledge of those matters, I simply say that I do not believe 
 those people were entitled and I believe an injustice has been done to 
 the Choctaws and Chickasaws. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Why? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I do not believe they are entitled. 
 
 The Chairman. How many were there? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. There were 17, I think. I say, when that case is 
 understood, the Choctaws and Chickasaws would have a just claim 
 against the Government of the United States for the property thus 
 arbitrarily taken from them, because I do not believe they are en- 
 titled to citizenship. 
 
 Now, let me say just a word with reference to what may be the 
 result of any action looking to the reopening in a general way of 
 citizenship matters. 
 
 You gentlemen probably do not know it but there are a hundred 
 thousand people in the Indian Territory that, if any sort of a citizen- 
 ship tribunal were created, would apply, and this provision would 
 open it as wide as the English language could do so. It matters not 
 if jurisdiction is conferred upon this committee or the Commissioner 
 of Indian Affairs, or the court, or whatever the forum or tribunal may 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 845 
 
 be created — there are 100,000 people, backed by practically every 
 attorney in the country, who are ready to file their applications. 
 The Dawes Commission in the first instance, saw the danger of that, 
 and, gentlemen, it is written as plainly as the English language could 
 express it in the law of May 26, 1900, that in order to cut off, in order 
 that the work might be ended, in order that the activities of the 
 Government of the United States should be limited to those who had 
 apparently meritorious cases, it was written in the face of that law 
 that the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes should not "receive, 
 consider, or make any record of the application of any person whose 
 name was not on the tribal roU." The pressure was so great that not 
 less than 50,000 cases arose under that law. 
 
 The Dawes Commission and the officials of the Department of the 
 Interior, in order that these people might be heard, notwithstanding 
 that plain provision of the law, and notwithstanding the fact that 
 we were standing there as representatives of the tribes, saying and 
 demanding that the law meant what it said, that imless the appli- 
 cant's name appeared on the tribal roU he had no status whatever — ■ 
 notwithstanding that, in order that these people might have a 
 hearing, the Secretary of the Interior and the Commission of the 
 Five Civilized Tribes disregarded that provision of the law, and 
 50,000 cases origuiated. They called them "memorandum cases," 
 and these memoranda were passed upon on their merits. Notwith- 
 standing the fact that we thought the activities of the Government 
 should be hmited to the tribal rolls, 50,000 applications were consid- 
 ered on their merits, in the face of the plain provisions of the law 
 of 1900, which read that the commission should not make any record 
 of the application of such persons and 50,000 people swarmed in there, 
 and records from 1 page to 500 pages of typewritiiig accumulated, 
 and these records were passed upon by the commission. 
 
 Senator White. You say you think there would be 100,000 appli- 
 cations in Oklahoma 1 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir; I do. 
 
 Senator White. You mean there would be that many fraudulent 
 
 onGS * 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I would not say fraud would enter into all of them. 
 A man is not necessarily guilty of fraud if he feels he has a claim and 
 wishes it passed upon. That would be a pretty broad statement. I 
 
 would not say that. , t v i, i;^ ui j a t n 
 
 Senator White. Are there any real Indians, hall bloods and lull 
 bloods, that are not on those roUs ? i • • i, . 
 
 Mr. Cornish. No, sir. Pardon me if I seem to be positive about 
 that but I wish to make it plain that that statement is untrue. The 
 wrong has been the other way. You Senators have not heard much 
 of that side— the wrong has been the other way. 
 
 Senator Owen. Of putting on people not entitled? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Of putting them on instead of keeping them oil. 
 
 That is where the trouble arose. j. in ,, . i, ijr i,i j 
 
 Senator Owen. You say there are no full-blood or half-blood 
 
 Indians that are not on the rolls and are not now participating in 
 
 * Mrl^CoEmsH. No, su-; I state that absolutely and positively, with 
 aU the power of language that I can command. That statement is 
 not true. 
 
846 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. The governor of the Chickasaw Nation and the 
 governor of the Choctaw Nation are both here, and I would hke to 
 have them answer that one question for the record. Gov. Johnston, 
 do you know of anybody who ought to be on those rolls who is not ? 
 
 Gov. Johnston. No, sir; I do not. 
 
 Senator Owen. Gov. Locke, do you know of anybody who ought 
 to be on those rolls that is not 1 
 
 Gov. Locke. No, sir; I do not. 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. Gentlemen, in the conduct of our work Gov. Mc- 
 Curtain was chief of the Choctaws. He is now dead and Gov. Locke 
 is the chief. Gov. Johnston, of the Chickasaws, has been governor 
 since 1898, throughout all of which time he has had the united, 
 unanimous support and confidence and esteem of his people, and in 
 the conduct of this work we were directed by the principal chief of 
 the Choctaw Nation and the governor of the Chickasaw Nation. We 
 were directed to prevent, if we could, the enrollment of people who 
 were not entitled, and we were also directed, at the expense of the 
 nation, to exert our efforts and our activities in assisting those 
 who had meritorious claims and have their names placed upon the 
 rolls, and he performed this service as conscientiously as pos^ble. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Will you teU the committee at this juncture 
 how many names you assisted in having put on the roU ? 
 
 Sir. Cornish. Just to guess at it, I would say 500, first and last. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Can you teU the committee how many persons 
 whom you call white persons are now on the roll ? 
 
 Mr. CoENiSH. That would be a matter of speculation. I would 
 say, just answering generally, that there are on the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw rolls more than a thousand persons who have no more 
 right there than I have. They are in possession of the lands of the 
 Choctaws and Chickasaws of the value of five or six million dollars, 
 and absolutely without right. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you know whether the fuU-blood Indians 
 of that tribe regard the statement that you have just made as being 
 true? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir; I do. I know they do so regard it. I know 
 they feel deeply aggrieved. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you know how many negroes are on these 
 rolls ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. They are a different class; they are on as freedmen. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you know how many freedmen are on the 
 rolls « 
 
 Mr. Cornish. About 5,000 in the Chickasaw Nation and about the 
 same number in the Choctaw — about 11,000. 
 
 Senator Robinson. About 11,000 in all? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you know how many white people there are 
 in the State of Arkansas who claim to be entitled to enrollment on 
 these roUs ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Senator, most of them have moved out to our 
 country. 
 
 Senator Robinson. You are mistaken about that. I have had a 
 thousand letters in the last few months from my constituents stating 
 that they are entitled to enrollment. Some of them I know per- 
 sonally, while I would not discredit the statments of those I do not 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 847 
 
 know. Some of them I know personally, and I have always regarded 
 them as full-blood white persons. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I think quite a good many could still be scraped up 
 in Arkansas and Texas who would wish to have their enrollment 
 passed upon. I have been liberal in my statement of 100,000. 
 
 Senator Thompson. In addition to the 100,000 you mentioned? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I think I have been liberal in that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Gov. Johnston, I understood you to say 
 that you know of no person who ought to be on these roUs who is not 
 now on the rolls ? 
 
 Gov. Johnston. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What are your initials ? 
 
 Gov. Johnston. D. H. 
 
 Senator La Follette. D. H.? 
 
 Gov. Johnston. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I read a statement from the "Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw roUs hearing" before the Committee on Indian Affairs 
 of the House of Representatives, page 35, published in 1910, as 
 follows : 
 
 Tishomingo, Ind. T. 
 
 Sir: I, Douglas H. Johnston, governor of the Chickasaw Nation, acting in my official 
 capacity as said governor, hereby respectfully recommend to the favorable considerar 
 of the honorable the Secretary of the Interior and the Congress of the United States 
 the petition of Virginia Savage and her children to be enrolled as citizens of the 
 Chickasaw Nation by act of Congress. I am thoroughly satisfied that these people 
 are possessed of Chickasaw blood and that they should be enrolled, llrs. Savage and 
 her children have always been recognized and treated as Chickasaws by the Chickasaw 
 government. 
 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 [seal.] D. H. Johnston, 
 
 Governor of the Chichasaw Nation 
 
 The Seoeetary op the Interior, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 
 I just wish that to be in the record in that connection. 
 
 Gov. Johnston. Senator, it was represented to me that the Savages 
 were away for their health, and I was of opinion that they had re- 
 turned. They were just out of the Territory at the time they should 
 have been there, in 1878, but since I understand that they have not 
 returned. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But you have not changed your opinion as 
 
 to this, have you: 
 
 I am thoroughly satisfied that these people are possessed of Chickasaw blood, and 
 that they should be enrolled. Mrs. Savage and her children have always been recog- 
 nized and treated as Ohickaaawa by the Chickasaw government. 
 
 Gov. Johnston. That was my understanding, that they were; but 
 so far as them being on the roll now, I would not say. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I understand. You do not want anybody 
 added to the roll now, no matter what their rights may be. 
 
 Senator Page. How many are there, all told, of the two nations ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I could not say. Twenty-five or six thousand Choc- 
 taws and five or six thousand Chickasaws. 
 
 Senator Page. What is the estimated value of an allotment ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. About $5,000. 
 
 Senator Page. Of each ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Of each allotment. Those are the figures we have 
 always used. 
 
848 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Just one word, and I am through. Somethmg has been said by- 
 way of innuendo and charge as to our financial matters during this 
 time. I do not suppose you want to go into that. Those matters 
 have been gone into by the officials of the Department of the Interior 
 as fully and completely as any matters have ever been gone into. 
 I wish to call your attention to this. Beginning in 1899 down to the 
 end of our relations with the Choctaws and Chickasaws, when we 
 finished up this work and collected the big fee, we had to carry on 
 the matter of financing this work which we had undertaken. In 
 the report of the Burke committee on page 1081, when these matters 
 were considered, after we had had our differences with Mr. Hitch- 
 cock, when we submitted our contract to Mr. Hitchcock for his 
 approval and he did not see fit to approve it, and then we took the 
 matter to Congress — Mr. Hitchcock never forgave us for that, and 
 from that time afterwards we had a good deal of bitterness with Mr. 
 Hitchcock and his subordinates — after the jurisdiction had been 
 conferred upon the citizenship court to fix our fee and after the fee 
 had been fixed, Mr. Hitchcock declined to act. 
 
 We submitted the matter to the Attorney General and got an 
 opinion from the Attorney General that the court had acted and that 
 he had no discretion in the matter, and was finally induced to do that 
 which he was required to do under the law in payment of that money. 
 But from 1899 down to the present time, as I say, when these matters 
 arose we were in perfect harmony with him and his department. We 
 went back through the files in our office, and we fished out from our 
 files, 1899 to 1905, bushels and bushels and bushels of letters and 
 telegrams, which were submitted to the department later on, saying, 
 "Have your Mr. Mansfield come to Washington." "Have your Mr. 
 Cornish join Mr. Wright on the Katy Flyer and go to Denison," and 
 "Have this one do this and do that." And when we brought about 
 the ratification and approval of this treaty in 1902 that was particu- 
 larly grateful from the standpoint of the Government of the United 
 States and of course particularly grateful from the standpoint of the 
 Indians, Mr. Hitchcock said, "We have done our part at this end 
 of the line, we know that selfish interests are lined up against the 
 ratification of that treaty, and this department looks to you gentle- 
 men to go back to your country and organize that coimtry in a 
 pohtical way, so that that treaty will be accepted and ratified." 
 Bear in mind that on the other side of this controversy were 4,000 
 people, with practically every lavryer of any consequence in every 
 town of the two nations. They had means and they had money. 
 In the ratification of that treaty we were met with that organized 
 opposition. 
 
 When these matters came up for investigation we submitted those 
 letters and those telegrams without number. When we were seeking 
 to have this treaty ratified; when we were seeking to have it accepted 
 by the Choctaws and Chickasaws; when we were fighting these influ- 
 ences, Mr. Dickey, the chief of the southwestern branch of the 
 Secret Service, located at Memphis, reported to us with a letter in his 
 pocket from the Secretary of the Treasury, stating that upon ap- 
 phcation having been made by Mr. Hitchcock, as Secretary of the 
 Interior, to the Secretary of the Treasury, he had been instructed to 
 come to the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations and report to us and 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 849 
 
 cooperate with us and to do what could be done from the standpoint 
 of the Government of the United States in the matter of seeing that 
 that treaty was ratified. I myself rode hundreds and hundreds of 
 miles in buggies with Mr. Dickey, and his services were of great value 
 in that respect, both to us and to the Government. 
 
 And through it all, from 1899 to the present time we have spent 
 lots of money. There is no question of that. But we spent that 
 money under acts of the Chickasaw Legislature and the Choctaw 
 Council. When we got into this important work, it was soon learned 
 that funds had to be provided for the payment of legitimate expenses. 
 So the Chickasaw Legislature passed an act increasing the contingent 
 fund of the governor of the tribe, and authorized the governor to 
 direct the payment of whatever expenses were necessary in the proper 
 carrjdng on of this work, and an appropriation sufficient for that pur- 
 pose was made and added to the existing contingent fund. There 
 was a provision of law in the treaty of 1898 which provided that the 
 Indians could not appropriate money without the approval of the 
 President of the United States, except the necessary and regular ex- 
 penses of the tribal government. 
 
 We held, the governor held, the principal chief of the Choctaw Na- 
 tion held, and the Government of the United States permitted us to 
 hold from 1895 to 1905, that these expenses were regular and neces- 
 sary expenses of the tribal government, as much so as the salary of the 
 governor, as much so as the salary of the auditor of pubhc accounts, 
 and as much so as any other official of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations; that these were necessary and regular expenses of the tribal 
 
 fovernment, and therefore not necessary to be submitted to the 
 'resident of the United States. That was our construction. We 
 felt that it was an honest construction. We continued in the per- 
 formance of this work. We were hand in hand and working in aU 
 harmony with every official of the Department of the Interior, 
 from Mr. Hitchcock down. These matters arose later. An investi- 
 gation was made in 1902, and it was found at that time that we had 
 used forty some odd thousand dollars of the Choctaw Nation, and Mr. 
 Hitchcock transmitted that to Congress, and said that it was a matter 
 over which he had no control. It was held by the Committee on Indian 
 Affairs and the United States Indian agent at Muskogee that we 
 were working hand in hand with the Government of the United 
 States in collection of the tribal tax and various other things. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Was that the amount of the expenses at that 
 
 iKfr. Cornish. The entire amount paid was something under 
 $200,000— $180,000 altogether, I think. ,■,..,• 
 
 Senator Thompson. That was incurred m takmg this testimony i 
 
 Mr Cornish. Yes, sir. We had all of the affairs of the Choctaws 
 and Chickasaws. In our office at McAlester, outside of the members 
 of the firm, we had some 15 people. 
 
 Now from 1899 to 1905, 1 have a list here of the amounts ol money 
 that the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish borrowed from 
 various banks in Indian Territory, Arkansas, and Texas. We have a 
 list beginning in 1899 and running to 1905 of the money borrowed 
 I will not read it all. It runs froin 1899 to 1905, and shows the total 
 amount of money borrowed from time to time to carry on this work. 
 
 82833 — VOL 1 — 15 54 
 
850 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 We had to go ahead and spend the money and prepare our accounts 
 for the approval of the governor, and from beginning to end we had 
 borrowed about 1106,000. _ , , . j i, 
 
 Now, about this man Ballinger. When we had performed aU 
 this work and thought we were entitled to our fee— it was fixed by 
 the court— and this man went into the Supreme Court of the Dis- 
 trict of Columbia, in February, just 10 years ago, and sought to 
 enjoin the Secretary of the Interior and' the Secretary of the 
 Treasury from paying us that money. The firm was Dole & Ballin- 
 ger. The case was in the Supreme Court of the District of Colum- 
 bia and entitled." McLish v. Leslie M. Shaw, the Secretary of the 
 Treasury," and the fourth allegation in that is practically what he 
 said here to-day and what he has said from 1905 to the present time. 
 
 Later on, of course, that charge was withdrawn from the case. 
 Then came the decision of Judge Anderson, who is still on the bench, 
 and whose comments upon the whole subject are worthy of being 
 quoted. 
 
 Among other things. Judge Anderson said : 
 
 At tlie time of the passage of the act of Congress referred to there was a aubsistihg 
 contract between the defendant attorneys and the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations 
 whereby said attorneys were to receive as their compensation 9 per cent of the fruits 
 of their services. This contract was submitted to the Secretary of the Interior for 
 his consideration and approval, but he did not approve it. * * * The questions 
 submitted to the court (the citizenship court) were purely questions of fact. * * *. 
 The court passed upon these questions and found that these attorneys were justly 
 entitled to compensation in the sum of $750,000. * * *. Here were 4,000 men 
 clamoring to get their hands into the Treasury of the United States, and these defend- 
 ant attorneys, representing their clients, said: "They are not entitled to a dollar. 
 These claimants are frauds. They are not citizens of either one of these nations." 
 They proceeded, as it was their duty to do, to investigate before that court and unearth 
 fraud and disclose it wherever they could find it. The services rendered were valua- 
 ble, as may well be appreciated, when it is considered that they saved fifteen or twenty 
 million dollars to their clients. 
 
 Judge Anderson said much more, and I quote only enough to show 
 that he acted with a full understanding of the history of the trans- 
 actions, and that we were entitled to full credit and commendation 
 for what we accomplished. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Did you receive that fee? 
 
 Mr. CoENisH. Yes, sir; at the time we made our original contract 
 no one thought that the judgments rendered in favor of these people 
 were not absolutely final, and they were in possession of the lands 
 and our original employment did not contemplate that. 
 
 Senator Thompson. What was your regular salary? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. 15,000 a year from each tribe, and then, in addition 
 to that, they paid for special services outside of the contract. This 
 whole matter was before Judge Anderson of the Supreme Court of 
 the District of Columbia, and his language is so thoroughly applicable 
 that I will read it. [Reads from opinion of Judge Anderson.] This 
 is an opinion in our favor, not only dismissing the application for 
 injunction, but discussing in detail the character of the services we 
 had rendered. It is just as strong as could be written sustaining us. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Was not your employment by the nations ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. The first contract we made with the Chickasaw 
 Nation was for $5,000 a year but definitely stated what cases we 
 should appear in. These court claimant cases had not arisen. The 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 851 
 
 work wliich we wore originally employed to do was work before the 
 Dawes Commission and the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I want to ask you one question about Judge 
 Anderson. You spoke of the case before Judge Anderson. The 
 case before Judge Anderson was disposed of upon demurrer and 
 answer to the rule only; isn't that a fact? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. That is true. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Not a line of testimony was taken? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. But a very delightful opinion from the judge. 
 
 Mr. Bellinger. It was held to be a political question? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Thompson. You are in possession of all these facts and it 
 is a matter of record in a general way. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes ; entirely so. 
 
 Senator Thompson. There was a complete distinction between the 
 Dawes Commission and the citizenship court ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes. 
 
 Senator Thompson. As a matter of record, will you state just what 
 the Dawes Commission did and what the citizenship court did ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. The citizenship court's jurisdiction was limited by 
 the act of July, 1902. It began and ended with that act. It had to 
 do only with the particular class of cases that came to it from United 
 States courts. 
 
 Senator Thompson. It reviewed cases from the district court ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. And nothing else ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Nothing else. It had no general jurisdiction of 
 citizenship matters. 
 
 Senator Thompson. It had general jurisdiction of everything? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Only those cases. The Dawes Commission had no 
 jurisdiction of these cases. 
 
 Senator Thompson. It could have had original jurisdiction, could 
 it not ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir; under the law of 1896. The jurisdiction of 
 this citizenship coiu't arose under the act of June 10, 1896. 
 
 Senator Thompson. What was the date of the Dawes Commission ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. The original act was June 10, 1896. The cases origi- 
 nating under this act were appealed to the United States court and 
 then transferred to the citizenship court. 
 
 There were 4,000 case that had no connection whatever with the 
 jurisdiction of the Dawes Commission. In other words, in aU other 
 cases the Dawes Commission had jurisdiction. 
 
 Senator Thompson. In what cases did the Dawes Commission go 
 out of business ? Before the citizenship court was created ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish No, sir; at the same time. There were 4,000 cases 
 practically. They had jurisdiction of every other citizenship case that 
 could possibly arise in cooperation with the Commissioner of Indian 
 -Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior. They were subordinate. 
 
 Senator Thompson. The 4,000 cases they had considered prior to 
 the creation of the citizenship court? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. This jurisdiction to make the roUs arose under the 
 acts of 1897, 1898, and 1900, and were supplemented later by some 
 other acts. 
 
852 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Murray is here from Oklahoma, and tho Chair 
 would Hke to have him given 10 or 15 minutes. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. May I ask Mr. Cornish one more question ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish, of the cases appealed from the commission to the 
 United States courts, there were judgments entered in favor of only 
 about 2,000; isn't that true? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I did not quite follow you. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I say, in aU of the cases appealed from the judg- 
 ment of the commission to the United States courts, and I am speaking 
 of Choctaw and Chickasaw cases, favorable judgments were obtained 
 in favor of only about 2,000 ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. In the United States courts « I would not be certain; 
 the records will show. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Now, then, when you took those cases to the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw citizenship court you would take up there 
 those not only in which favorable judgment had been rendered, but 
 those that had been denied by the United States courts ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. We shut our eyes to everything that had been done 
 in the United States courts and tried the cases de novo. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. And when you asked for the fixing of your fee you 
 fixed it upon the value of aU that were denied by the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw citizenship court, amounting to about $4,000? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. The number denied by the citizenship court exceeded 
 3,000, and it was upon such denials that we based our fee. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HOIT. WM. H. MURRAY, A REPRESENTATIVE 
 FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA. 
 
 Mr. Murray. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I shall not undertake 
 to go into the detailed matter of the cases covered by Mr. Cornish, 
 because I do not understand it as weU as he does; in fact, no man 
 lives who understands the question as thoroughly as he and the old firm 
 of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish. I can say, however, that were 
 you to reopen the rolls these people would all be enrolled irrespective 
 of their merits, unless you hired Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish to 
 combat them. But I know the history leading up to the employment 
 of them, the political compaigns in the tribe, and the resultant slan- 
 der, charges, and recrimination, and that only I desire to explain. 
 
 I was the attorney for Gov. Johnston and selected immediately upon 
 his first election, for the most part to draft the laws for the tribe, and 
 I advised with him for many years. When he told me he had con- 
 tracted with the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, I questioned 
 his reason. He replied, "You know every prominent attorney in 
 the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations have cases on the other side. 
 You have told me that no man could act on both sides and be equi- 
 table as an attorney, but if you can name another firm equal to the 
 emergency, I would like you to do it." I approved of his choice. 
 
 They went into these cases. At that time these claimants had pos- 
 session of the property. I remember distinctly on one occasion wien 
 the governor was asking me what to do about these claimants, having 
 been acquainted with the State law and the State jurisdiction, I was 
 unacquamted with the overturning of the judgment of the court, 
 and i said, "Governor, it looks to me as if you were fighting at the 
 wrong end of the line." I remember distinctly when he rapped, his 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 853 
 
 chair, and said, " I do not want any more advice about fighting these 
 cases; all I want to know is how to fight them. I believe too strongly 
 in a Divine Providence that will not permit such fraud and perjuries 
 to stand; I believe so strongly in this great Government, to believe 
 otherwise. All I want of you is to know how best to fight," and as 
 we went along I began to see dayUght. I told him that he ought not 
 to permit them to hold land, to go to school, or to exercise any other 
 rights as members of the tribes, and he asked my reason for it, and I 
 said: "We have in law the doctrine of estoppel, which it is true is not 
 applied to the nation, but perhaps the court wiU decide the Chicka- 
 saw Nation to be not a nation." 
 
 At that time every prominent lawyer and the influence of every 
 newspaper were lined up in favor of the claimants. The strength, in a 
 
 foHtical way, stands to-day quite as strong against the tribes as the 
 ndians can muster, so far as they are individually concerned. So 
 that' there is a conflict, even now in public life, but the great body of 
 business people and the farmers who are not directly interested, m a 
 political contest, align with the Indians upon the pure question of 
 pubhc pohcy. There have been claimants who, as stated, are voters, 
 as our Indians, and so we are face to face with that flght, and I say 
 to you here, as I have stated at home, that Mansfield, McMurray & 
 Cornish are compelled to suffer because of their faithfulness and their 
 success for their clients. 
 
 In aU my experience with the Indians I have never known attorneys 
 to do their duty so faithfully and so successfully as those three men, 
 and irrespective of the pohtical effect or the statements of others, I 
 say it here as I have said it at home. 
 
 Immediately upon the trial of these cases those attorneys who had 
 recovered contracts amounting to about $12,000,000 on the other 
 side, lost a fortune — swept away from under them by the decisions 
 of the citizenship court. This statement began to be made — "We 
 beheve," or "Have you heard" — a suggestion here and there that 
 the attorneys of the tribe had divided this fund with three citizen- 
 ship judges with the purpose of destroying the integrity of that court. 
 I am aggrieved quite as much at the slander of these judges — two of 
 them are now gone — they had to bear it, in doing their duty. Then 
 the press began to publish, at the instance of these claimants and 
 their attorneys interested, that kind of slander, and finaUy they were 
 aU capitalized, and an effort was made in 1909 to reopen these roUs 
 and part of the plan was to break down the integrity of the citizen- 
 ship court. An ex-Senator of the United States in North Carolina 
 in his paper published a slanderous charge against the Chief Justice, 
 Mr Adams. That case went to trial. I went to North Carolma as 
 a witness Mr. Weaver was present; Mr. Foot, the other member of 
 the court, was dead. In that trial Judge Adams was compeUed to 
 go through aU his detail business transactions for years. I say to 
 you that although those three judges differed m pohtical faith from 
 my own yet it grieves me to know that until this day they are com- 
 pelled to bear the slander of these attorneys trying to enroU these 
 fraudulent claims. But that ex-United States Senator was con- 
 victed of criminal libel as a result of that trial. 
 
 Now let us analyze the matter for the sake of that court it they 
 wanted to hunt bribes in a new country would any man of common 
 sense fail to know that it would be far easier to accept the bribes 
 
854 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 from the claimants' attorneys who had more in fees than Mansfield, 
 McMurray & Cornish, and would it not have been easier for that new 
 court to have accepted a bribe on the other side to uphold a former 
 judicial decision— would it not run counter to the ordmary method 
 of the man who is hunting a bribe to overturn a former decision ? 
 
 It has been detailed to you by Mr. Cornish how careful they were 
 in every transaction, and I want to say here, for the memory of 
 Judge Foot and Judge Weaver— Judge Adams now hves— that no 
 judges ever were sent to the Indian country — and all of them have 
 been slandered who went there prior to statehood— who did their 
 duty with as much painstaking, conscientious, faithful regard for 
 their duty than those three men, and it seems to me to be unfair at 
 this late hour to permit such a hearing to Webster BaUinger and 
 associates that would give them a fee which was admitted before the 
 Senate conunittee a year and a half ago, amounting to aU the way 
 from $8,000,000 to $12,000,000. If a court would divide its judg- 
 ment with an attorney — the three got a $750,000 fee — ^if that interest 
 was so strong I ask you gentlemen to analyze this — how much 
 credence can you give to the statement of an attorney representing 
 these claimants that would give him a fee from $8,000,000 to 
 $12,000,000? 
 
 Every committee of the Senate and of the House gave a full and 
 complete hearing to this transaction, with fuU and complete evidence 
 in the years past, convincing in favor of the tribes and against these 
 claimants. 
 
 Then, again, in the political campaign that followed in the Chicka- 
 saw and Choctaw Tribes — and I was mixed up with all of them as a 
 citizen of the tribe — it was my privilege to travel all over those 
 nations and make speeches in favor of the supplementary treaty of 
 1902. Mr. Cornish stated the truth when he said they carried their 
 lives in their hands. I carried mine when I went out in that work, 
 going out as a citizen without pay, without compensation, and but 
 for Mr. Henry C. Dickey, the United States inspector, I would have 
 lost my life at Stonewall in that campaign. I want to say with all 
 emphasis, gentlemen, that in these contests the press was lined up 
 against the Indian tribes ; that the attorneys generally were all using 
 their influence against the tribes as strongly as they could; that it was 
 a case of bitter politics, but as the Indians began to understand they 
 with greater unanimity followed the men who stood for the contracts 
 with Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish. The supplementary treaty 
 was carried by the largest majority ever given in the Chickasaw 
 Nation on any question ever submitted. When Gov. Johnston ran 
 the last time, it being understood under an act of Congress that he 
 would hold during good behavior or until a tribal government ceased, 
 he carried that contest for himself, and his party standing behind this 
 policy, in every election box in the nation and for every officer of the 
 nation from constable to governor. 
 
 That is the way they looked at it, and the Indians of the Choctaw 
 and Chickasaw Nations have the same regard for the faithful attorneys 
 who stood behind them at that time, but are now slandered in the 
 press and before Congress because it is necessary in order to reopen 
 these rolls. 
 
 Now, something was said of W. B. Johnston, who represented the 
 Chickasaws for $16,000. The only work he did was to plead the 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 855 
 
 unconstitutionality of the statute. Every case was enrolled by the 
 court, except one, and that one ought to have been enrolled, and was 
 later enrolled. Again, an overwhelming number of those cases were 
 denied by the master in chancery who heard them in Townsend's 
 court, and yet the master's report was overruled by the court. 
 
 Then the statement has been made that white people were enrolled 
 while the full-blood Indians were denied. There is W. W. Payner, 
 of my town. His family were claimants, not on a question of 
 fraud but a question of law. His wife, a white woman, had married 
 Mr. Boyd, an Indian, which gave her citizenship. She then married 
 Payner, she a white woman, and he a white man from Kentucky. 
 They had children, all of whom were white, admitted to be. The 
 court enrolled Mrs. Payner, but said that right was personal, but did 
 not enroll those white children. There were many cases of that char- 
 acter, and I submit to this committee when we deny these children, 
 all of whom were white, and enrolled the wife, who had married under 
 the law, and became entitled \mder the law, it was a proper decision. 
 
 Further referring to what Mr. Cornish said about Lige Colberg, I 
 wiU say that Lige Colberg and four other negroes lived up ia Blue 
 Bottom, about 10 miles from where I Hved. They had an evidence 
 shop by which they could furnish any kind of evidence which might 
 be wanted by claimants, and a third of those claimants in the United 
 States courts, called coiirt claimants, were enrolled by testimony from 
 that evidence shop — by the testimony of these five negroes. That 
 was why Congress in its wisdom enacted this legislation, creating the 
 citizenship court to purge the roUs. Is it conceivable that both 
 Houses of Congress and the President of the United States would 
 have enacted a law creating a court unparalleled in the history of 
 Enghsh jurisprudence if they had not been convinced of these frauds 
 and perjuries? Now, with the breaking up of the tribal existence 
 and the power of appropriating money to stand behind their attor- 
 neys, if you open the roUs now, the frauds and perjuries that were 
 brought out then will be Sunday school lessons in comparison to what 
 will happen again. 
 
 No, gentlemen of the conunittee; these men have done their 
 duty 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is a stump speech. 
 
 Mr. Murray. Yes, gentlemen ; I have made this stump speech 
 down there, and although I received the opposition of every " citizen- 
 ship grafter" and "land grafter" in that country, and although they 
 voted against me in the general election after I had been nominated 
 as a Democrat — I am on the side of justice and of right, and the 
 people of that State know it, and this committee ought to know it, 
 and if you will go into this question as fuUy as I have gone into it, 
 you will be convmced of the justice of it— convinced forever that 
 these Indian roUs must not be reopened. 
 
 Now, I say to you in aU candor that these roUs ought to be kept 
 closed. If you can discover cases here and there that ought to be 
 enrolled, enroll them as you did last winter, like a pension bill — by 
 an individual biU. Do not subject the tribes agaui to great attor- 
 ney's fees and the perpetration of fraud. If a man ought to be 
 enrolled, and you Senators know it, you can analyze his case and 
 pass a special bill enroUing him, and thus save the tribe this expense 
 and the Government the expense, and aU these frauds and perjuries. 
 
856 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 I say also in all candor that you ought to pay out to those Indians 
 that money that they have been promised time after time by treaty 
 should be paid them one year after the settlement of their tribal 
 affairs. 
 
 I have to thank the committee for its courtesy. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I would like to ask you a question. You 
 are very famiUar with the situation there, I judge, from your long 
 residence and intimate connection with these people. Do you know 
 of cases there that are equitably entitled to enrollment ? 
 
 Mr. MuEEAT. I do not know of but one person. That person the 
 Chickasaws have asked to be enrolled, and legally that person is not 
 entitled, but he is an Indian. That is a man by the name of Pitchlia. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You do not know of any cases other than 
 that that are entitled to enrollment, do you ? 
 
 Mr. MuEEAY. No, sir. I do not think there is anybody in the 
 Indian country who has any Indian blood who is off the roll. Of 
 course, there might be some Indians in Mississippi that we claim are 
 not entitled to enrollment under the law and the treaties. But I do 
 not think there is a single person with any Indian blood who lives in 
 Oklahoma who is not on the roll. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Take the Nichols family. Did you vote to 
 put them on ? 
 
 Mr. MuEEAT. I voted for them, along with some others, just to 
 make good measure. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You voted for them? 
 
 Mr. MxjEEAY. I did ; and I said to friends over in the House that I 
 did not know and did not care about it, but would vote to put them 
 on to make it good measure. I made that statement when I voted 
 for them. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You were a Member of the House at the 
 time that was done ? 
 
 Mr. MuEEAY. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Are you on the committee? 
 
 Mr. MuEEAY. I am on the Committee on Indian Affairs of the 
 House; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is all. 
 
 Senator Thompson. This one case that you spoke of could be 
 taken care of by special act, could it not ? 
 
 Mr. MuEEAY. Yes, sir; by special act, just as we enrolled the people 
 last winter. 
 
 (Mr. Murray was thereupon excused.) 
 
 The Acting Chaieman (Senator Owen). Mr. Hastings, who is a 
 Member elect from the eastern part of Oklahoma, and who repre- 
 sented a great many of these cases in the closing hours of 1907, is 
 present, and if the committee will hear him I wfll be glad to have 
 him given an opportunity. 
 
 STATEMEIfT OF HOJiT. W. W. HASTINGS, MEMBEE ELECT 
 FEOM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I 
 shall be very brief in what I have to say. I shall not detain the com- 
 mittee but a few minutes. 
 
 As the chairman has stated, I represented the Cherokee Tribe in 
 citizenship matters for a number of years; in fact, I have represented 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 857 
 
 them in part for the past 20 years, during the time that these final 
 rolls were made, and therefore claim some familiarity with the citi- 
 zenship question with respect to the Cherokees; and the legislation 
 with reference to other tribes is very similar to that enacted for the 
 Cherokee Tribe. 
 
 I might state that I do not believe it has been fuUy explained to 
 this committee what it takes to constitute citizenship in one of those 
 tribes. I know in talldng with the very best lawyers throughout the 
 United States that they have a misapprehension upon that question, 
 and it is only upon that and one or two other questions that I desire 
 to speak. 
 
 Most of you believe that if one has Cherokee blood he is necessarily 
 entitled to be enrolled upon the Cherokee rolls, or if he has Choctaw 
 or Chickasaw blood that necessarily attaches. In that you are mis- 
 taken. There is only one essential. You may be a full-blood Chero- 
 kee, Choctaw, or Chickasaw and yet not be entitled to be enrolled as 
 a member of those respective tribes. In addition to having the blood 
 you must have two other things, namely, you must be a member of 
 the tribe — that is, a recognized member of the tribe — that you are 
 seeking to be enrolled in; and, thirdly, you must be a resident in the 
 tribe. 
 
 Now, as all of you Senators know, the members of the Five Civil- 
 ized Tribes formerly resided east of the Mississippi River. In the 
 early thirties most of them removed to their present location in what 
 is now Oklahoma. A great many Indians did not remove West; 
 they remained in the Eastern States. Some of those are full-blood 
 Cherokees. They are not entitled to property in the Cherokee Tribe. 
 Hence, to prove that a man is a Cherokee Indian, or that he speaks 
 the Cherokee language or that he i^ a fuU-blood Cherokee or Choctaw 
 as the case may be, is not sufficient to entitle him t<5 be enrolled as a 
 present member of those tribes. 
 
 The statement was made here yesterday that certain brothers were 
 enrolled and other brothers were not enrolled. Gentlemen of the 
 committee, some people are entitled to be enrolled whereas their 
 brothers are not entitled to be enrolled because of residence. If you 
 wiU pardon a personal reference, the sisters of my mother, who is 
 carried upon the Cherokee roll, in the early fifties went to California. 
 They are of the same Indian blood that my mother is. They have 
 resided in California ever since. Their children and their grandchil- 
 dren. They are not entitled to be enrolled although those children 
 of my mother's sister have the same Cherokee blood that^I have, but 
 because they are not recognized members of the tribe they are not 
 enrolled members of the tribe and are not residents of the Cherokee 
 Nation. That is the reason why you will find a good many members 
 of a family on the roll whereas other members of that family are not 
 entitled to be enrolled. I want to emphasize that as strongly as I 
 can to the members of the committee to show you that being of 
 Indian blood was not of itself sufficient to entitle one to be enrolled 
 upon this roll. 
 
 Senator Owen. That was the case with regard to my own first 
 
 cousins. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Upon what standard do you base it? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Senator, that would make quite a long story, but 
 each of these tribes have clauses in their constitutions that provide 
 
858. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 that if one removes out of the tribe to another State and becomes a 
 citizen of that State they will lose all their rights in the tribe, and that 
 was made necessary because of a clause in the patents to those lands. 
 
 The Cherokee patent was signed by Martin Van Buren on Decem- 
 ber 31, 1838, and it contained a provision that if we abandoned 
 those lands or the tribe became extinct, then the title reverted to 
 the United States, so it became necessary for us to incorporate 
 clauses in our constitution and also in our law providing that if any 
 member of the tribe expatriated himself he then lost membership 
 in the tribe and lost any interest in the tribe. 
 
 A statement has been made to the committee with reference to 
 the so-called rush cases. Inasmuch as I am familiar with them, I 
 want to call the attention of the committee to them. It is true 
 there are a great many cases that were decided by the Secretary of 
 the Interior or by the law clerks in his office. Of course members 
 of this committee here know that the Secretary of the Interior 
 never saw one of these cases, but they went through his office, and 
 that the law clerks in that office did pass upon those cases. Now, 
 gentlemen, we began to make those rolls in 1898, 1899, and 1900. 
 The Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes began making the 
 Cherokee roll in 1900. They went from place to place, aU over the 
 Cherokee country, at points convenient to aU applicants to receive 
 applications. They did the same thing in the year 1900. They 
 took testimony from then up until 1907 from time to time in various 
 cases. They began writing opinions in the year 1902, and the law 
 required that those decisions, enrolling or refusing to enroll, must 
 be approved by the Secretary of the Interior, and from time to time 
 they were forwarded to the Secretary of the Interior. 
 
 We found ourselves in this attitude : Here was a family which ap- 
 plied for citizenship in the tribe. It was denied. The entire record 
 was forwarded to the Secretary of the Interior, and that decision of 
 the co mmi ssion denying him was affirmed by the Secretary. Time 
 dragged along for maybe a year or two years. Motions were made 
 to reopen those cases. They were denied. Ex parte affidavits were 
 attached to those motions. They were forwarded to the Secretary 
 of the Interior and in a vast majority of those cases the motions were 
 granted and the cases were reopened for reinvestigation by the Com- 
 mission to the Five Civilized Tribes, and the cases were heard again 
 upon the original record, and upon such additional testimony as was 
 seen fit to be admitted, again forwarded to the Secretary of the In- 
 terior, maybe denied by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, 
 that denial approved by the Secretary of the Interior, and sent back 
 to the Commission to the Five CivUized Tribes. In a great many of 
 those cases they were reopened some two or three times and sent 
 back. I make that statement to show you that a large number of 
 those cases that had been previously investigated were among those 
 cases that were pending before the Secretary of the Interior during 
 the last few days prior to March 4, 1907. 
 
 There were also other cases pending before the Secretary of the 
 Interior. They consisted of two other classes of cases. One class 
 was those without any merit at all. You know, gentlemen of the 
 committee, that in the trial of cases in court that there are certain 
 cases that are instituted that nobody presses particularly, and they 
 just drift along until there are a great many of them, and then they 
 are dismissed about the time court is about to adjourn. We had a 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 859 
 
 great many of that class of cases where we had been for five or six 
 years carrying them along on the docket down yonder in the Com- 
 mission to the Five Civihzed Tribes, and we took testimonjr from time 
 to time, and wrote these claimants letters from time to time urging 
 them to submit any and all testimony they had in support of their 
 claims. 
 
 When it was found that the roUs were to be closed on March 4, 1907, 
 of course a great many of those cases without any merit at all were 
 sent up to the Secretary of the Interior for approval. 
 
 There was a third class of cases that were decided, and those were 
 cases where some controlling decision had been rendered in some other 
 case that affected those cases. 
 
 Those three classes of cases in a large measure constituted the 
 greater number that were passed upon by the Secretary of the Interior 
 immediately before March 4, 1907. 
 
 I wish to say now, gentlemen of the committee, that those Indian 
 tribes had the right to make their own roUs prior to June 10, 1896. 
 That was the first act ever passed by the Congress of the United 
 States ever depriving the Five Civilised Tribes of the right to make 
 their roUs. I will say to this committee that in my judgment those 
 tribes, within six months, could have made an absolutely fair and 
 impartial roll of their tribes if they had been permitted to do so, but 
 statements were made to committees here for years and years prior 
 to June 10, 1896, to the effect that the Indian tribes were biased and 
 prejudiced against these so-called claimants; that they would not do 
 them justice, and that they wanted some fair and impartial tribunal 
 to pass upon these cases. Those statements had been made before 
 committees ; they had been made before the Secretary of the Interior ; 
 they had been made before committees and commissions that had 
 been sent down to the Indian country to investigate conditions 
 genefaUy. The Congress of the United States upon those repre- 
 sentations passed the act of June 10, 1896. In the Cherokee country 
 there were at least 50,000 people who applied under that act to be 
 admitted to citizenship in the Cherokee Nation alone. 
 
 They apphed from almost every State in the Union, from Maine to 
 California, and from almost every county in the United States. To 
 show you that they were without merit, and to show you that the 
 claims that had previously been made that we were prejudiced against 
 their enrollment — after an investigation by the Dawes Commission 
 and after an appeal to Judge Springer, who was then the district 
 judge, out of that entire number of 50,000 people, only 283 indi- 
 viduals were added to the Cherokee roUs; venture to say-^I do 
 not have them dU in mind — ^but I was one of the representatives of 
 the tribe at the time and I do not beheve that we contested a single 
 one of those 283 cases. That will show the members of this com- 
 mittee that if we had been allowed to make that roll ourselves that 
 we would have enrolled all of the 283, as well as all the others who 
 were carried upon the rolls; that the roU would have been made 
 fairly; that it would have been made expeditiously; that it could 
 have been completed within six months from that time ; and that the 
 lands of that tribe and other tribes would have been allotted and 
 their affairs would have been wound up at least 10 years ago. 
 
 (Thereupon at 2 o'clock p. m., the committee took a recess until 
 3 o'clock p. m.) 
 
860 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 AFTER RECESS. 
 
 The committee reassembled at 3 o'clock p. m. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HOlf. W. W. HASTINGS— Eesumed. 
 
 The Acting Chairman (Senator Owen) . Mr. Hastings, you may- 
 proceed. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I 
 was discussing when we took a recess some of the citizenship legisla- 
 tion enacted by the Congress of the United States and how many 
 people had applied under the act of June 10, 1896. 
 
 I want to emphasize what has already been said with reference to 
 the character of the witnesses used and the procedure that was had in 
 those cases before the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes under 
 that act. It has already been stated before this committee that prac- 
 tically a dozen witnesses made affidavits in a vast inajority of those 
 cases. What was true in the Choctaw Nation was also true in the 
 Cherokee Nation. I would not say that dozens of witnesses all made 
 affidavits, but I will say that about 20 witnesses made affidavits in a 
 large percentage of cases; in other words, they were what is known 
 as ".standing witnesses." 
 
 Congress became impatient with respect to those rolls not being 
 closed, and with respect to the affairs of the Five Civilized Tribes 
 not being wound up and began to legislate as early as 1905, directing 
 that the affairs be wound up at the close of the next year, and I 
 believe you will find the provision on the Indian appropriation bill 
 for that year directing that the affairs of the Five Civilized Tribes 
 be wound up, and turning over the unfinished business to the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior thereafter. They were not wound up, however. 
 A provision was inserted in the act of April 26, 1906, requiring those 
 rolls to be closed on or about March 4, 1907. I desire to invite your 
 particular attention to that. vSome stress has been laid on the fact 
 that a good many of those cases were up before the department 
 within the last few days prior to March 4, 1907. This act, as I have 
 just stated, the act of April 26, 1906, contained a provision that those 
 rolls should be closed on or before March 4, 1907, and that no person 
 should have any jurisdiction to enroU anyone after that date. So 
 that all applicants had notice by this act of Congress that was passed 
 within some 8 or 10 months prior to March 4, 1907, that nobody would 
 have any j'urisdiction after that date. They had had an opportunity 
 of presenting their claims under the act of June 10, 1896. They had 
 under the Curtis bill that was passed on June 28, 1898, and under 
 those various acts of Congress, and this congressional legislative 
 notice was given t5 aU of those people that those citizenship rolls 
 must be completed on or before March 4, 1907. I befieve. Senators, 
 that everybody who was an applicant had a fair chance. 
 
 Now, I can not be honest with myself nor with this committee and 
 say that I do not believe that everybody in the Cherokee country 
 had a fair chance. You understand that I am quite familiar with 
 the Five Tribes ; I know the general legislation, and I know something, 
 of course, of their affairs, but I do know that everybody in the Chero- 
 kee country had a fair chance. 
 
INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 861 
 
 Now, we have some "night hawk" Indians. We were particularly 
 solicitous about those Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. What Idnd of Indians did you say? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. "Night hawk" — people who were not in sympathy 
 with the purpose of the Government, who would not appear before 
 the commission and voluntarily be enrolled. I want to say that 
 there was considered with my consent an arbitrary appHcation that 
 was made by every one of those, so that the commission would have 
 jurisdiction to further investigate their cases. 
 
 Senator Owen. You hunted them and their children out? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. We hunted them and their children out; you are 
 correct. We sent interpreters on horseback aU through the hills to 
 hunt up those Indians, and anyone belonging to that class, if he 
 found out the purpose of the visit of this interpreter, would not give 
 him any information, so he sat down and talked to him like a de- 
 tective and fooled around and asked the children's names or perhaps 
 went to his neighbor's house and asked the names of the neighbor's 
 children, and after he went from the house he took out his notebook 
 and put down the names of the family and the children, and we took 
 that secondary evidence. There was no objection to it. In other 
 words, we did everything we could to get aU the available testimony 
 with reference to those people who we thought were entitled to be 
 enrolled, and, in my judgment, this Cherokee country has the very 
 best roU that could possibty be made. 
 
 Now, it is true that Congress put on a few people last year, but let 
 me say, do not be deceived, gentlemen of the committee. They are 
 not people that these gentlemen were asking to be enrolled. As to 
 those that you enrolled last year, nine-tenths of them at least belonged 
 to those "night hawk" bands of Indians, or those in the Five 
 Civilized Tribes that were opposed to the purpose of the Government, 
 and would not voluntarily appear before the commission and give 
 any testimony for their enrollment, or for the enrollment of their 
 children. Nearly everyone that you enrolled on the Cherokee roU 
 last year were minor chudren. 
 
 Senator Lane. How many did we enroll last year ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Between three and four hundred. 
 
 Senator Lane. Of the Cherokees ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Of the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 Senator Lane. How many Cherokees ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. I think 131; I may be mistaken in that. It was 
 not a very large number, but they were nearly aU those Indians who 
 were opposed to enroUment. Those who were enrolled included the 
 so-called hst of 52 that got up to the Secretary of the Interior too 
 late to be approved before March 4, 1907. The hst had been sent up 
 and had been misplaced, and this list included those. It included 
 a few adults, but most of them, generally speaking, were children of 
 those Indians who were opposed to the purpose of the Government 
 and who would not voluntarily appear before them. 
 
 Now, gentlemen of the committee, I beheve the Oklahoma dele- 
 gation imow the sentiment of the people of Oklahoma 
 
 Senator Page . May I ask you a question right there ? Is this some- 
 what of a political question in Oklahoma, this Indian question ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. I am about to come to that. I will say no; it is 
 not. It has been a personal question to some extent, but it is not a 
 
862 INDIAlr APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 political question. I was about to say that I believe the Oldahoma 
 delegation correctly reflects the sentiment of the people of Oklahoma, 
 and I might say in their behaU that I know there is not a Member 
 the Oklahoma delegation that is in favor of opening the roU, either 
 in the Senate or in the lower House. 
 
 Senator Page. After the property is all distributed do you not 
 imagine there will then be applications to Congress for years and 
 years to let in added Indians to those rolls and take the money from 
 the Federal Treasury to make good what we can now make good out 
 of the Indian treasury ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. No, sir. I was about to say that there is no senti- 
 ment in my country for the reopening of the roUs. Now, that is a 
 pretty strong statement to make before this committee. I would not 
 knowingly make an erroneous statement, but there is absolutely no 
 sentiment in my section of the country looking to the opening of the 
 rolls. They are glad that the roUs are closed; they are glad that it 
 is ended. There is not in the eight counties that I will have the honor 
 to in part represent after the 4th of March (one of them is in the 
 Choctaw coimtry and the other seven are in the old Creek and Cher- 
 okee country) any sentiment at all in favor of reopening the roUs. 
 The truth about it is that the sentiment is unanimous there against 
 it, because they want conditions settled. You are disturbing busi- 
 ness conditions; you are demoralizing land values by this constant 
 legislative threat to reopen the roUs, because the people of that coun- 
 try know that if you ever reopen those roUs again you will be 10 
 years in closing them. How are you going to close them ? 
 
 Senator Page. My anxiety is to see that in our legislative action, 
 or our congressional action, we do not leave the Federal Treasury 
 where it is going to be mulcted of large sums hereafter. Can you not 
 tell some way by which we can put up the bars ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. You gave them a chance from June 10, 1896, to 
 March 4, 1907 — 11 years. They have had every opportunity to pre- 
 sent their claims before courts and commissions and before Congress. 
 They have had a fair trial. Those who were adjudged to be entitled 
 to be enrolled were enrolled and the others were denied, and we think 
 they have been fairly dealt with; that they have no just claims either 
 against the tribes or the Government of the United States. 
 
 I want to say, pressing the other point, that if you reopen those 
 roUs by the amendment that is proposed here you will cause every 
 man who has applied for citizenship in the last 10 or 20 years to 
 reapply. How are you going to prevent it? I do not care how 
 fraudulent their cases, and I do not care how little of merit there may 
 be in a case, it wiU have to be investigated. 
 
 I made a statement a short time ago that 50,000 applied in the 
 Cherokee country under the act of June 10, 1896. Two hundred and 
 eighty-three individuals were enrolled. Those we did not dispute. 
 
 Senator Lane. If you had closed the rolls and prevented the appli- 
 cation of these — how many thousand, 50,000 1 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane (continuing). These 283 would not have gotten in? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Yes, sir; they were carried on our rolls and undis- 
 puted anyhow. They were just under a wrong impression. They 
 thought they had to be enrolled or make application. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 863 
 
 Senator Page. You say if we open the matter there will be a very 
 large number that will apply for enrollment ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. Now, the fact that we distribute this fund will not 
 prevent that class of people coming here for enrollment, will it ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Yes, sir; it will prevent them because you have 
 done that in the Cherokee country. 
 
 Senator Owen. Are there any persons applying in the Cherokee 
 country for the reopening of the roUs ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Not that I know of. That is what you did on June 
 30 last in the Cherokee Nation. 
 
 Senator Page. We know that the attorneys for those who say they 
 ought to be enrolled are here pressing for enrollment, and they have 
 ever since I have been in the Senate. 
 
 Senator Owen. Not in the Cherokee country. 
 
 Senator Page. I am talking about the Choctaws and Chickasaws. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. You can not find fault with an attorney who repre- 
 sents a client for pressing his claim, and I have no fault with the 
 attorneys who are representing these claimants. They have large 
 fees at stake, and I have no personal criticism whatever of them for 
 their persistency in pressing these clainas before committees of the 
 House and Senate, or before any of the departments of this Govern- 
 ment. But I do want to warn this committee now that if by any 
 legislation these rolls are reopened you will be 10 years in trying to 
 close the door. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Are there any of the Indians represented by these 
 attorneys in the Cherokee Nation? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. If they represent any of them I do not happen to 
 know it. I have no information about that at aU. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I was going to say that if any one represents 
 them here or anywhere else, those people will of course apply for 
 enrollment. It is natural that they would like to apply because they 
 would hke to get on the rolls. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Yes, it they had anybody to represent them. I do 
 not know whether these gentlemen represent anybody in the Cherokee 
 country who claim they ought to be enrolled or not. 
 
 Senator Geonna. There are a great many from the Choctaws and 
 Chickasaws who are making application. 
 
 Senator Page. WiU you let me ask you another question at this 
 point, in line with my previous question. This amendment provides 
 that they may add the names of persons shown by the Government 
 records to be entitled to enrollment. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. That term, "governmental records," wiU be dis- 
 
 ?uted by every attorney who represents every one of those claimants, 
 hey will claim, every single sohtary one of them, that the govern- 
 mental records show they are entitled. They wiU claim that some old 
 roll that was made 75 years ago was a governmental record and claim 
 that they are descendants of somebody upon one of those roUs, and 
 win claim that they have a right to supplement those governmental 
 records with additional proof to show that they are entitled; and I 
 want to say to yoir that those attorneys wiU be adroit enough, if that 
 character of amendment is passed by the Congress of the United States, 
 to get their applications in and get them considered; and if you con-^ 
 
g64 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 sider the applications of 100,000 people, and if you allow them th 
 right of appeal, say, from a commission to the Secretary of the Inte 
 rior, and those motions to reopen go backward and forward from thi 
 department to the department down there, you can readily see that i 
 will take a number of years to close these matters of the Five Civihzec 
 Tribes. 
 
 Senator Page. But we have had before us a reference made to dif 
 ferent rolls. Now, those rolls are, so far as I can see, not large ii 
 number, and, as I understand it, nearly everybody on those rolls anc 
 on the records have been considered, have thej not ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Let me correct that impression, and I am glad yoi 
 have suggested it. I Imow a great deal about the Cherokee roUs, ] 
 may say without egotism; I have helped to make them for the pas' 
 20 years, and I ask your pardon for anything that I may say of i 
 personal nature — and I will say that we have been making little pei 
 capita payments ever since the war. We made one in 1870. W( 
 had no roll at that time, and we had as many white people in th( 
 country as we had Indians. A good many Senators do not kno-w 
 that we had, when statehood came, forty times as many white peoplt 
 as we had Indians scattered aU among us, and when we went tc 
 make one of these little per capita payments of $10 or $12 a head 
 for instance, we sent a man out in a county to make the roll oi 
 that county; we had nine counties in the Cherokee country and thej 
 made that roll. Now, you can easily see if they had no roU to guide 
 them they would not personally know every man in the county, anc 
 there might be some little errors and some people might get on thosf 
 rolls that were never approved by our council — in other words, jus1 
 pay rolls like you have, some election inspectors, and where you dc 
 not have any registration law you can easily see that some persons 
 might come in and vote that are really not entitled, because you dc 
 not know whether they reside there or not. 
 
 Now, the Congress of the United States never intended, by the ac1 
 of June 10, 1896, to confirm any roU except the authenticated rolls 
 of those tribes. 
 
 Senator Page. How large a number are there of names that appear 
 on this roll that should be left off ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. I have none particularly in mind in the Cherokee 
 country except a very limited number; that is, I mean as to those 
 little, old pay rolls. 
 
 You did not permit me to complete my statement which I began 
 a moment ago. In 1880 we made another pay roll. The Cherokee 
 Legislature or Council authenticated that roll; they went over it 
 very carefully and they said, "Every man who is on that roU is a 
 recognized Cherokee citizen." Since that time we have always rec- 
 ognized it, and Congress has always recognized it. So when you use 
 the loose language that is used in the act of June 10, 1896, Congress 
 ia the next act passed an amendment to the Indian appropriation 
 bill and sought to construe it — sought to correct an error, and to say 
 they only intended to confirm the authenticated roUs and they never 
 iutended to confirm any of those little pay roUs. Since that time we 
 have had a pay roll, iu 1883 ; we have had a little pay roll of only a few 
 dollars, which was unimportant. We had had another payment in 
 1886, another in 1891, another in 1894. We made a census roll in 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 865' 
 
 1896. That was the last one that was made. So they had a number 
 of those. 
 
 Now, once m a while that roU has not been carefully scrutmized, 
 and you can see that people are anxious for those payments to be 
 made, and where two census takers, for instance, have a district, they 
 may here and there make some mistakes and some person may have 
 eirroneously gotten on the roUs — for instance, where people had been 
 previously married and had had children by a former marriage — and 
 then maybe a white man married some white woman and had some 
 children and afterwards married a Cherokee woman, and the children 
 
 foing by the same name, you can easily see that some mistakes of that 
 ind might be made, and some people erroneously get on the roUs. 
 There were not many cases, however; very few. 
 
 Senator Page. I understand that, but there would be a very large 
 number that would come in and apply for enrollment if the rolls were 
 reopened ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Exactly, and there will be cases where they will go 
 back to some of the old roUs — ^back in 1835 and on down, and they 
 wiU claim that they are descendants of people who are on there, and 
 as was explained this morning, you have that law and those tribes 
 have unlimited money to send all over the country in order that they 
 might get up enough to disprove that. 
 
 ' Here is the difficulty with respect to that: These applicants are 
 represented by practically all the members of the bar of Oklahoma, 
 whereas the tribes are only represented by one firm, maybe. You 
 might say that 100,000 people are applying for citizenship, repre- 
 sented by, maybe, 300, 400, or 500 lawyers, as the case may be. They 
 themselves go out and get their own testimony, whereas the tribe 
 has not the same facilities, and have not the same means. The 
 Cherokees, for instance, are represented by one firm of attorneys ■ 
 
 Senator Page. You have misunderstood what I said, or intended 
 to say. I meant to say if you limited this to the men who are on 
 the records there could not be a very large number that have not 
 already been put on the rolls. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Yes, sir; and I am trying to say to you that 
 governmental records wiU mean those old scraps and letters — any 
 fetter that is on file in the department. In other words, that term 
 has always been given a very liberal construction by the department. 
 
 Senator Page. But if you should get them all in you could not 
 get a large number, could you 1 
 
 Mr. Hastings. But the point I am trying to impress upon you is 
 that every one of those fellows will contend in his apphcation that 
 he comes within the rule, and they will say that they can trace this 
 back to somebody whose name is upon those rolls. 
 
 As a matter of fact, you would find upon investigation that they 
 are not, but it wiU necessitate an investigation. Suppose 100,000 of 
 them come and say, "Our ancestors were on the rolls of 1835" or any 
 one of those old rolls; upon investigation, after a year or two years, 
 it may be after taking a world of testimony, you can disprove that. 
 But what I am trying to call to the attention of the committee is 
 that if this provision is adopted it will require years of investigation 
 in order to disprove it and the expenditure of large sums of money. 
 
 82833 — VOL 1 — 15 55 
 
866 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Now, gentlemen of the committee, I am very glad to have had this 
 opportunity to appear before you. So far as the Cherokees are con- 
 cerned, nobody can say that I am interested because I happen to be 
 a member of that tribe. Our affairs have been closed up. 
 
 Senator Page. Before you get away from this matter I want to 
 ask you a question: Suppose this was limited to, say, the records in 
 the Interior Department. Can you not limit this in some way so 
 that there could not be a large number coming in ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Senator, for 10 years — at least I will say since 
 1967 — attorneys representing claimants have tried to have conferences 
 with attorneys representing the tribes so they could agree on some 
 language that would express that kind of thought, and you can never 
 get those attorneys representing the claimants to agree upon any 
 language that does not provide for a reopening of adjudicated cases. 
 
 Senator Page. Could you not employ some language here — could 
 you not restrict this in some v/ay so that you could know there could 
 not be any abuses to any great extent ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. I have tried to do that before, and I do not know 
 of one solitary person in the Cherokee country that ought to be "en- 
 rolled, and entertaining that belief, I would not be in favor of any 
 amendment at all. 
 
 Senator Page. I think you stated here that practically every 
 attorney in Oklahoma was interested in these cases; that has been, I' 
 think, generally stated here, and it has been said that that was a 
 great source of revenue to pretty much all the attorneys 
 
 Mr. Hastings. I want to correct it up to date, because since 1907 
 there have been a great many attorneys coming in, but I mean the 
 earlier attorneys. 
 
 Senator Page. After this fund is exhausted and there can be 
 nothing taken from the Indians, it seems to me those attorneys who 
 are seeking now will then be seeking to get their fimds from the 
 Federal Treasury and will create a political sentiment there that will 
 send here to the Federal Government from Oklahoma Eepresenta- 
 tives who will favor opening this matter, and you can draw from the 
 Federal Treasury large sums of money. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Without desiring to criticize anybody, I might say 
 that if this agitation was stopped here and stopped in the lower 
 House, there woidd be absolutely no sentiment on earth in Oklahoma 
 on this question. I said a moment ago that in my country there is 
 none now. People are satisfied with it. They believe that the rolls 
 have been closed, and they beheve that Congress meant what it said, 
 that they were finally closed on March 4, 1907, and since that time 
 there has been no sentiment throughout my country of any conse- 
 quence lookiag to the reopeniag of those rolls. 
 
 Senator Page. Let me put it in another way. Do you not think 
 that this committee of the Senate and Congress should in some way 
 try to safeguard these perennial and everlasting demands upon the 
 Federal Treasury ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Yes, sir; you have asked me the question, and I 
 trust it wiU not be discourteous for me to reply frankly 
 
 Senator Page. Certainly not. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. If my suggestion were at fault, perhaps I ought not 
 to say, but if my suggestion were not faulty I would say to those 
 people, "These rolls were closed by the act of April 26, 1906, on 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 867 
 
 March 4, 1907, and they are closed forever." That would be my 
 answer; or it i thought it was a meritorious case that was brought 
 to my attention— and if one was brought to my attention to-day— I 
 would take the stand that a commission or a court should consider 
 the matter and I would be in favor of introducing a special biU for it, 
 and 11 any gentleman can show me a meritorious case in the Cherokee 
 country that, alter investigation, is entilted to be on the rolls or enti- 
 tled to citizenship, I would be glad to introduce a bill and place 
 that person upon the roll, and would support it before a committee 
 or in Congress. 
 
 Senator Page. But after the entire fund has been distributed what 
 would that avad ? It would simply avail to take it from the Federal 
 Ireasury. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. But, Senator, there are millions in the Choctaw 
 fund undistributed. You could easily pass this and give those 
 Choctaws $200 and the Cherokees $100 per capita, and yet they have 
 millions to their credit, much more than any conservative man 
 would say will be able to take care of any people Congress might see 
 fit to enroU. These are poor people. They are in a cotton section 
 exclusively. Their crops are poorer this year because of the dis- 
 tressful conditions down there — as you know, cotton is not worth 
 anything, and it has resulted in a very distressed condition 
 
 Senator White. Do the Indians raise cotton? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. Yes, sir; they raise some themselves. A great 
 many of them reside on their own land and they raise cotton. Some 
 of the fuU-blood Indians cultivate farms just the same as a white man 
 does in the States. They raise com and cotton, particularly in the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw country, and those people down there 
 really are in very great need of this money, and in my judgment it 
 would be a very great wrong to withhold it. Certainly if this $200 
 per capita is paid to the Choctaws and the $100 paid to the Chickasaws, 
 and if Congress feels that then any individuals ought to be added to 
 the roll and do that by legislation, or provide for it so that they will 
 be enrolled, there is plenty of money there — there are these vast coal 
 fields to be sold, so you will have plenty of time to take care of it. 
 
 One other criticism, if I may be permitted, with reference to this 
 kind of legislation. I have always beheved Congress made a mis- 
 take, although it does not he in my mouth to criticise them — in put- 
 ting on such very important legislation upon an appropriation oill, 
 although that has been the custom I might say for a number of years. 
 I think this legislation is too important for Congress to enact upon 
 the short hearings that you'have had here. Congress is to adjourn on 
 March 4. Everyone is anxious to have this appropriation bill 
 reported, and I fear that the committee will not have the proper 
 time to dehberate upon it and hear everything on both sides of the 
 case that really ought to be said about it. 
 
 I desire to thank the committee for the opportunity of being heard. 
 I know these people are very much in need of this money and I feel 
 that they should have it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. If there are some people down there who 
 are entitled to a share ia this fund, and who have been denied it, 
 and denied the recognition of any of their rights, turned out by the 
 citizenship court there and denied a final adjudication of their claims 
 here by the Secretary of the Interior because they fell within that 
 
868 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 period when he repeatedly called the attention of Congress to the 
 fact that he had no time to consider them — they are in a much more 
 dependent condition. They have not shared in any of the property 
 rights, and tliey must be suffering very much more than the people 
 who have had the benefit of this distribution. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. That is quite true, if it exists. I do not know 
 about that. But what I have been trying to say to the committee 
 is that this will not hurt them. If you do the right thing by the 
 Choctaws and Chickasaws, namely, make this partial distribution, 
 you will have yet millions of dollars to take care of any people who 
 Congress or any court or commission that it might create should ever 
 adjudge entitled to be enrolled. Suppose you make this payment, 
 and suppose next year Congress finds that there are others entitled 
 to be enrolled. Suppose you create a commission that finds there 
 are others entitled. Mr. Field gave it as his estimate in the hearing 
 yesterday that there would be between 500 and 700 of them. Now, 
 according to no conservative estimate, Senator, will there be a suffi- 
 cient number enrolled but there will be plenty of funds to take care 
 of them even, if you do justice by them. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You think the other people might wait 
 until the coal land is disposed of, but that these people need this dis- 
 tribution right at this time ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. No; you seU the surface of the segregated land in 
 the Choctaw Nation. That is sold on annual installments. A large 
 amount of that money is going in every year with the interest on it, 
 and there will always be plenty of money after this is distributed to 
 take care of any people that Congress, either directly or indirectly, 
 through the creation of a court or commission, may judge entitled to 
 be emolled. There is no question in the world about that, and nobody 
 disputes it. The only reason why attorneys, in my judgment, fight 
 this provision is in order to try to force the Oklahoma delegation to 
 compromise in a way so that when the one is done some provision will 
 be made to take care of these citizenship claimants. 
 
 I am certainly very much obhged to the committee for its courtesy 
 in hearing me. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Eeford Bond, who represents the Chickasaw 
 Nation, would like to heard for a few minutes. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. EEFOED BOND. 
 
 Mr. Bond. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, principle is the very 
 foundation and groundwork of the law, and precedent is persuasive 
 and oftentimes final; and I am pleased to know this afternoon that 
 I have the opportunity of addressing a body of men in part well 
 founded and well grounded in the law. 
 
 Senator Lane. In part? [Laughter.] 
 
 Mr. Bond. "In part"— that is my statement. 
 
 I beheve. Senators, you will recognize the principle and that you 
 can apply the precedent. When an attorney files a motion for a new 
 trial, or when he attempts to appeal a case, he sets up all his grounds 
 of error, both law and fact, and fraud, and any other grounds that 
 might appear to give him the right to a rehearing. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Or he comes to Congress and gets a special 
 court created. [Laughter.] 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 869 
 
 Mr. Bond. That is what they are attempting to do now, I think — 
 attempting to get a special tribunal now. I will discuss the special 
 court later. 
 
 Before an appellate court will hear an appeal or grant the right of 
 a rehearing you must have a transcript of the record or a case made. 
 Suppose the few cases that were mentioned here before the committee 
 to-day were to be investigated to ascertain whether or not they should 
 be considered by the Secretary of the Interior or some other tribunal; 
 jon, Senators, sitting as a court of inquiry, would require the records 
 in each one of those cases; and if you did and if you had them before 
 you, it would possibly take you days to read the evidence pro and 
 con in each particular case; and until you had examined every iota 
 of the evidence pro and con, and until you had examined the opinions 
 and the" judgments rendered in those cases, you could not inteUigently 
 say whether or not those parties were entitled to a new trial. And 
 you, gentlemen, who are lawyers know that to be true with reference 
 to appeals and with reference to new trials. 
 
 I will state another fact, and I think you will concur with me. The 
 attorneys representing the citizenship claimants present to your com- 
 mittee the strongest cases that they have out of the 20,000 or 50,000 
 or any number of cases that have been denied. 
 
 Senator Page. So far as the Senator from Oklahoma is concerned, 
 his mind is pretty well fixed in this matter, as is also true of the 
 Senator from Wisconsin; and the rest of us are laymen and we would 
 like to have as much of the legal feature avoided as you can, and to 
 have you talk to those of us who are not lawyers. Pardon me; I just 
 wanted to interject that thought. 
 
 Mr. BoxD. I think before my argument is closed, I wUl make it so 
 plain that even the layman will understand it. 
 
 I think you will concede that the attorneys representing the claim- 
 ants have presented their strongest cases to-day. You would 
 naturally concede that a man asking for a new trial or a review of a 
 case would pick out of the great masses of cases he had, the strongest 
 cases that he could present. 
 
 Senator Page. The layman can understand that. 
 
 Mr. Bond. Then we will take the Savage case, for instance. The 
 entire record of the Savage case is not before the committee. The 
 evidence and the opinion is not before the committee. But we will 
 take the Savage case, for example, from the facts that do appear of 
 record. 
 
 The Savage case was denied under the law; that is, the Savages were 
 not residents of the Indian Territory within the proper time to be 
 granted citizenship. No court, no tribunal, no commission, ever 
 decided the Savage case favorably so far as I am able to determine. 
 You might attack the commission, you might attack the Commis- 
 sioner of Indian Affairs, you might attack the Secretary .of the 
 Interior for the decisions in the Savage case; but the Supreme Court 
 of the United States has spoken in a similar case; that is, a case which 
 had to do with the law of removal and of residence. I will say to you 
 that whenever the Supreme Court of the United States speaks, then 
 it is beyond the power and without the authority of Congress to 
 disturb that judgment. 
 
 I would like to read to the committee just a few lines from a case 
 entitled, "The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians v. The United 
 
870 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 States and the Cherokee Nation," reported m 117 United States at 
 page 288, which passes directly upon a provision of the Cherokee 
 constitution with reference to residence. The court in that case said: 
 
 Provisiona were made for them by the teeaty of New Echota (the treaty of 1835), 
 between the Cherokee Nation and the United States, similar to those with the Choc- 
 taws by the treaty of 1830. ^^hen the Cherokee people moved to the present home 
 of the Cherokees, these remained behind in North Carolina, where they have ever 
 since resided. Like the Choctaw treaty of 1830, the treaty of New Echota provided 
 that their lands should be ceded to them and their descendants, etc. The Cherokee 
 Nation, by virtue of a treaty with the United States, afterwards sold some of these 
 lands. The Eastern Band of Cherokees, in North Carolina, unlike their Mississippi 
 Choctaw brethren, promptly demanded their pro rata of the proceeds of this sale, and, 
 upon being denied, at once sought and obtained permission of the United States to 
 sue the Cherokee Nation in the Court of Claims for this money; and also, in the same 
 suit,- to sue for another fund wliich was created by the treaty of New Echota, consisting 
 of certain annuities in the sum of $214,000, of which the Eastern Band of Cherokees 
 claimed a pro rata share. The suit was brou§;ht, and the Court of Claims, in a very 
 elaborate and learned decision, decided against the right of the Eastern Band of 
 Cherokees to recover, upon the ground that those Cherokees, by the act of remaining 
 in North Carolina, had alienated themselves from the Cherokee Nation to such an 
 extent that the could not claim any of the rights of a Cherokee citizen without moving 
 into the Cherokee Nation and there being readmitted in accordance with the con- 
 stitution and laws of that nation. 
 
 May it please the committee, I desire to correct myself and state 
 that this language is not taken from the opinion I have just cited, 
 but from another decision referring to same, but the opinion which 
 I have cited can be read. It sustains that language; that is, the 
 language of a different judge referring to the case. 
 
 I will state to the committee that Congress provided that the 
 roUs of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations should be made in 
 accordance with the laws, usages, and customs of the tribes, and it 
 flu-ther provided, by the act of 1908, a particular time which claim- 
 ants had to establish their residence in Oklahoma. 
 
 I will now take up the Virginia Savage case, as it appears in the 
 fecord in "Choctaw and Chickasaw Rolls Hearings before the Com- 
 mittee on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives, H. R. 19279, 
 and H. R. 19552, and H. R. 22830," in 1910, Charles H. Burke, 
 Chairman. Omitting the caption of the petition, I will read as fol- 
 lows: 
 
 First. That on the 20th day of February, 1901, Vh-ginia Savage, representing 
 herself and children, appeared before the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes at 
 Muskogee, Indian Territory, and then and there made application for the enrollment 
 of herself and her children, as citizens by blood of the Chickasaw Nation or tribe of 
 Indians. 
 
 Second. That on the 10th day of January, 1903, the Commission to the Five Civilized 
 Tribes rendered its opinion denying the said application under a portion of section 21 
 of the act of Congress approved June 28, 1898, which provides as follows: "No person 
 shall be enrolled who has not heretofore removed to and in good faith settled in the 
 nation in which he claims citizenship," which said decision was erroneous and con- 
 trary to former decisions of the department. 
 
 Third. That on the 15th day of July, 1905, the Department of the Interior rendered 
 its decision confirming the decision of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes 
 hereinbefore referred to. 
 
 Fourth. That on or about the 12th day of March, 1906, your petitioners herein filed 
 with the department, through theh attorneys, Eiley & Phillips, their motion to review 
 said decision. 
 
 Fifth. That on the 13th day of February, 1907, and during the rush of business in 
 closing the rolls of citizenship, said motion was passed upon adverse to these claimants 
 your petitioners herein, without due consideration to their rights and contrary to 
 former rulings of the department. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 871 
 
 Gentlemen of the committee, here is the Savage case, passed upon 
 by the Dawes Commission adversely, passed upon by the Commis- 
 sioner of Indian Affairs adversely, passed upon by the wSecretary of 
 the Interior adversely, and a motion for rehearing made, and it went 
 out during the rush of business. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Will j^ou read the next two or three paragraphs in 
 that petition ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. I will read the next two or three paragraphs of this 
 petition because they appeal to a layman; they do not appeal to a 
 man who understands the law and who Imows that under the laws, 
 usages, and customs of tribe and under the act of Congress they were 
 required to become residents within a certain time. That family 
 were not residents then and that family are not residents to-day, and 
 have been nonresidents for almost 20 years. Here are the concluding 
 paragraphs: 
 
 Your petitioner, Vijginia Savage, would respectfully state and show to the honorable 
 the Secretary of the Interior that her brother, Florence Carter, is a duly enrolled and 
 approved citizen by blood of the Chickasaw Nation or Tribe of Indians, and his name 
 appears upon the approved roll of such citizens opposite No. 4911; that her sister, 
 Ida "Wigley 
 
 Mr. Ballinger (interrupting). Won't you read the preceding para- 
 graph to that ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Which paragraph? 
 Mr. Ballinger: 
 
 Your petitioner, Virginia Savage, would respectfully state and show to the honorable 
 the Secretary of the Interior that she was bom in the Chickasaw Nation, Indian Ter- 
 ritory, and resided there for many years, and that she has never abandoned her home 
 in the Chickasaw Nation, although, on account of ill health, she has found it necessary 
 to live in Colorado for a number of years. 
 
 Mr. Bond. Gentlemen, this is the statement of counsel, asking for 
 a new trial, but three different tribimals held that she was a non- 
 resident. If she had been over there for her health, I am satisfied 
 the commission would have em-oUed her and her family. 
 
 Senator Lane. Was she born there? 
 
 Mr. Bond. She was born in the Indian Territory, yes; but under 
 the law it does not make any difference where she was born. 
 
 Senator Lane. Was her health bad? Did she have to leave on 
 account of her health ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. The commission foimd that she did not. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Oh, no; you are mistaken. 
 
 Mr. Bond. The commission found she had not complied with the 
 
 Senator Lane. On account of her departure from there, after 
 having been born there and having left there on account of her health ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. The law does not make any provision for your health. 
 If the law made provision for your health, every Indian m Indian 
 Territory could have moved out and the lands would have been 
 forfeited to the Government. . j .i. ^ ^i, i, j 
 
 Senator Lane. But if their health did become so bad that they had 
 to leave to preserve their lives, then do you fine them and punish 
 them for that unfortunate condition ? Is that your law ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Senator Lane, you have not the record m this case. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is that your law? 
 
872 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 IVIr. Bond. I say that if you change your residence, regardless for 
 what cause, under the law you lose your rights of citizenship. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is what I wanted to know. 
 
 Mr. Bond. A change of residence controls. 
 
 Mr. Caetee. May I interrupt you for a short statement ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Certainly, Mr. Carter. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Mrs. Savage is a relative of mine, whom I know quite 
 well by reputation, although I never saw her in my life. The fact in 
 the case is that Mrs. Savage was born in Indian Territory. She lived 
 there until she was about 10 or 12 years old. She was then taken by 
 a white family to the State of Colorado, and adopted, and has lived 
 there ever since. I have been in correspondence with her, and I 
 have never before heard anything as to her bad condition or state of 
 health. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is very negative testimony. 
 
 Mr. Carter. She is a relative, and I know her quite well by cor- 
 responding with her, and I correspond with her occasionally yet. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But you never saw her? 
 
 Mr. Carter. No, sir. But she did marry a man who was afflicted 
 with tuberculosis, after she was grown, and on account of his health 
 she had, I think, to remain, since her marriage, in Colorado. 
 
 Senator Lane. I will call your attention to a little statement 
 made by Mr. Fields yesterday, in which he said : 
 
 In said official communication the Secretary states that the department concurs 
 in the view of the Indian Office, that unless the time is extended many persons entitled 
 to enrollment will not be ecLrolled. 
 
 Mr. Bond. I will argue that later. 
 
 I am a member of that nation. At the time these rolls were 
 being made I was out of the nation. I did not appear before the 
 commission at any time, and I will venture to say there were 15 or 
 20 other young men from my nation who were away at school at 
 the time with me, who did not appear before the commission, and 
 we were all enrolled by our parents giving our names. People who 
 were away on court business or people who were away at school 
 or people who were away for any good reason were not refused 
 enrollment. 
 
 Senator Lane. I want to call particular attention to that. Sen- 
 ator La Follette, did you hear that statement ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I did not. I was otherwise engaged for 
 the moment. 
 
 Senator Lane. Mr. Bond says that he, being away from the Indian 
 Territory and at school, was enrolled by his parents, and that it was 
 a good excuse; but this woman, who claims to have been away on 
 account of 01 health, was not enrolled. 
 
 Mr. Bond. You mistake me. Senator. I said this woman was re- 
 fused enrollment because under the law she had changed her residence. 
 I was away at school, but I never changed my residence and have 
 not changed it to this hour. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. The allegation is that she left there 
 when 10 years of age. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Doesn't she state in this petition, under oath, that 
 she has never abandoned her home in the Chickasaw Nation, although 
 on account of iU health she has found it necessary to live in Colorado 
 for a number of years, and is it not a further fact she did have a home 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 873 
 
 in Wynnewood, Chickasaw Nation, where she lived and where she 
 returned every year ? 
 
 Mr Bond. Mr. Ballinger, that is the statement of your counsel; 
 f J J ^^ different tribunals found that that statement was not well 
 lounded. Are you to take the statement of a claimant against the 
 imdmg of three different tribunals that she did not have a home 
 there ? 
 
 Senator White. What age was this child when she left the Terri- 
 tory* ( 
 
 Mr. Bond. I do not know, Senator, because I have not the com- 
 plete record. As I said at the commencement of my argument, you 
 should have the complete record in order to act with full knowledge. 
 
 Mr. Cartek. She was about 10 or 12 years of age. 
 
 Senator White. She is a relative of yours ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. She is about a third or fourth cousin. 
 
 Senator White. What age was she when she had to go to Colorado 
 for her health ? ^ 
 
 Mr. Carter. The family who took her and adopted her moved to 
 Colorado immediately afterwards, when she was 10 or 12 years old. 
 
 Senator White. How long ago was that ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. That was about 40 years ago, perhaps longer, and 
 she has hved there continuously ever since. It is news to me, although 
 I think my father and I were closer to the woman than any other 
 person in Oklahoma except the Tom Carter of whom she speaks. It 
 is news to me that she ever had any residence in Oklahoma, although 
 she was for a while on the tribal roUs ; her name was retained for a 
 while on the tribal roUs. 
 
 Senator White. Do you know whether she married before she 
 was of age or not ? 
 
 Mr. Carter. I could not say as to that. I have no idea about that. 
 She has been married quite a while and has a family of grown children 
 now. 
 
 Senator White. The reason I ask is that she has no power to 
 change her residence until she is 21 years of age. 
 
 Mr. Carter. I could not say as to that. 
 
 Senator White. If she was married, then by law her domicile would 
 be that of her husband. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I wUl state to the committee that I furnished 
 Mr. Bond last summer with a copy of records and afl&davits of Indians 
 who had raised her, of her marriage in the Chickasaw Nation, of 
 the circumstances under which she departed from that nation to 
 Colorado Springs, and requested Mr. Bond to look that matter up 
 fully so that he might be in a position to pass upon this case. 
 
 If you have that record, Mr. Bond, it wiU sustain my statement. 
 It shows that she was reared there by a Chickasaw family of Indians, 
 married in the Chickasaw Nation, and then left the Chickasaw Na- 
 tion, first on account of the ni health of her husband, who was dying 
 with consumption or who was afflicted with consumption, and later 
 she contracted her trouble, and they returned in the summer time 
 to the Chickasaw Nation and went back to Colorado Springs in the 
 winter time. 
 
 Senator Lane. I wiU say for the information of the committee that 
 if this woman states she has consumption, she has corroborative evi- 
 
874 INDIAW APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 dence in the fact that nine-tenths of the Indians do have it, or at 
 least a large majority of them do have it. 
 
 Mr. Bond. But that is incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial. 
 Three tribunals found that she did not comply with the law, and 
 further than that, she alleged in those cases and her owji statement 
 shows, when she was denied by these three tribunals, that she made 
 a motion for a rehearing after final denial by the Secretary of the 
 Interior. How could she complain ? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. Is it not a fact that she was denied under that 
 provision of the law which provided that no person shall be enrolled 
 who has not heretofore removed to and in good faith settled in the 
 nation in which he claims citizenship ? And at the time of the denial, 
 did not the department hold that they had to be physically present 
 in the nation on June 28, 1898, which the department subsequently 
 corrected, and they asked that this case be considered under that 
 corrected ruling ? 
 
 Senator Lane. Do you represent this woman as attorney, Mr. 
 BaUinger ? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Bond. May it please the committee, some of the Senators are 
 under the impression that the questions argued by Mr. Ballinger 
 yesterday and to-day have never been presented before any of the 
 committees heretofpre. The hearings of 1910 contain the brief and 
 argument of Webster Ballinger, and practically every argument made 
 by Mr. Ballinger on yesterday and to-day is set forth in full in this 
 brief, and for the benefit of the committee I desire to read just a few 
 lines from the brief. This brief is headed as follows : 
 
 Mr. Ballinger represents about 10,000 Choctaw or Chickasaw Indiana by blood, bom 
 to the allegiance of the Choctaw or Chickasaw Nations, and who have at all times been 
 recognized citizens thereof, whose names or the names of their immediate ancestors 
 appear on the official rolls of the tribes, but who were, through mistake, denied enroll- 
 ment, many of them without any hearing by the Secretary prior to the closing of the 
 rolls by operation of law, on March 4, 1907. 
 
 He continues and argues that particular question. He also 
 upbraids Mr. Bell for working for Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, 
 and criticizes the citizenship attorneys and the citizenship court. 
 He makes this statement, Senators, which I do not believe the law 
 will warrant 
 
 Mr. Ballingee (interrupting). You should confine your state- 
 ments to those I have made to-day, because those are recent facts. 
 
 Mr. Bond. You made the same identical statement to-day that I 
 am going to read. 
 
 By section 31 of this act the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, acting jointly or 
 separately, were authorized to, within 90 days after the approval of the act, file a 
 bill in equity in said legislative court citing 10 representative persons, admitted to 
 citizenship by the United States district court, to appear and show cause why the 
 judgments of the United States district court, which had been affirmed by the 
 Supreme Court of the United States in Stephens v. Cherokee Nation (174 U. S., 476) 
 should not be annulled. Two questions were to be presented in the test cases and 
 were to be determined by the court, i. e. — 
 
 "1. Did the United States courts in the Indian Territory, acting under the act of 
 Congress approved June 1, 1896, err in admitting persons to citizenship or to enroll- 
 ment as such citizens in the Choctaw or Chickasaw Nations, respectively, without 
 notice of the proceedings in such courts being given to each of said nations ? 
 
 "2. Did the United States district courts err in trying said cases, on appeal from 
 the Dawes Commission, de novo, or should said courts have been confined to a review 
 
INDIAN" APPBOPKIATION BILL. 875 
 
 of the action of the commission upon the papers and evidence submitted to said court 
 by said commission? " 
 
 _ Both of these questions had been determined by the United States Supreme Court 
 m the case of Stephens v. The Cherokee Nation. 
 
 , I think that same statement was made yesterday and to-day: 
 
 Both of these questions had been determined by the United States Supreme 
 Court m the case of Stephens v. The Cherokee Nation. 
 
 Let us see if those questions were determined by the Supreme Court 
 of the United States lu the case of Stephens v. Cherokee Nation. 
 The act of 1906 provides in part as follows: 
 
 If the tribe or any person be aggrieved with the decision of the tribal authorties 
 or commission provided for -in this act, it or he may appeal from such decision in the 
 United States district court: Provided, however, That appeal shall be taken within 
 60 days, and the judgment of the court shall be final. 
 
 Then, ia the act of 1908 we find this language, iu part: 
 
 Appeals shall be allowed from the United States court in the Indian Territory 
 direct to the Supreme Court of the United States to either party in all citizenship 
 cases, and in all cases between either of the Five Civilized Tribes and the United 
 States involving the constitutionality or validity of any legislation affecting the 
 citizenship or the allotment of lands in the Indian Territory under the rules and 
 regulations governing appeals to said court in other cases. 
 
 Note the language: 
 
 Involving the constitutionality of any legislation. 
 
 The Supreme Court passed upon nothing in that case except the 
 constitutionality of the act, and I will prove to you conclusively that 
 it could not have passed upon anything else, for the following reason: 
 
 First, if the Supreme Court had passed upon these two particular 
 questions — that is, whether all parties at interest had been made 
 parties to the suit or whether the cases had been tried do novo on 
 appeal— then that matter would have been res adjudicata, and the 
 citizenship court could not have passed upon those particular ques- 
 tions, and Congress would have been without authority to nave 
 authorized a court to pass upon questions that had been determined 
 and decided by a constitutional court. 
 
 There is quite a distinction between a constitutional court and a 
 legislative court. This citizenship court legislation was taken to the 
 Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Wallace v. Adans, 
 and the court very plainly said in that case that Congress was without 
 power and Congress was without authority to review a decision of 
 the Supreme Court of the United States; that it was one of the coor- 
 dinate branches of the Government and was without the power of 
 Congress. If the Supreme Court of the United States had determined 
 these two questions as Mr. Ballinger said, they would have been res 
 adjudicata in the citizenship court, and Congress would have been 
 without authority to give the citizenship court the right to determine 
 those questions that had been finally passed on by the Supreme 
 Coiu-t of the United States. 
 
 I want to read to the committee from the case of Wallace v. Adams 
 (204 U. S., 451). The citizenship court legislation was under con- 
 sideration at the time: 
 
 And while it is undoubtedly true that legislatures can not set aside the judgments 
 of courts, compel them to grant new trials, order the discharge of offenders, or direct 
 what steps shall be taken in the progress of a judicial inquiry, the grant of a new remedy 
 by way of a review has been often sustained under particular circumstances. 
 
876 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 The Supreme Court of the United States says it has been "often 
 sustained under particular circumstances," and yet we have state- 
 ments from counsel that it is unprecedented ; that it is unheard of in 
 legislation or jurisprudence. The Supreme Court of the United States 
 found ample precedent for it. I will read further : 
 
 The United States Court in the Indian Territory is a legislative court and was author- 
 ized to exercise jurisdiction in these citizenship cases as a part of the machinery 
 devised by Congress in the discharge of its duty in respect of these Indian tribes; and 
 assuming that Congress possesses plenary power of legislation in regard to them, sub- 
 ject only to the Constitution of the United States, it follows that the validity of reme- 
 dial legislation of this sort can not be questioned unless in violation of some prohibi- 
 tion of that instrument. 
 
 In its enactment Congress has not attempted to interfere in any way with the 
 judicial department of the Government, nor can the act be properly regarded as 
 destroying any vested rights, since the right asserted to be vested is only the exemption 
 of the judgments from review. 
 
 I wiU now read to the committee the closing language in the case, 
 which shows that if these matters had been settled by the Supreme 
 Court of the United States, Congress would have been without juris- 
 diction to confer that right on the citizenship court, and the Supreme 
 Court would have so held. 
 
 It is unnecessary to consider what would have been the effect of a judgment of this 
 court, a court provided for in the Constitution, on the question of the right of a liti- 
 gant to citizenship. The distinction between this court and the courts established 
 by act of Congress in virtue of its power to ordain and establish inferior courts is shown 
 in Gordon v. United States (117 U. S., 697), in which we held that while Congress 
 could give to the Court of Claims jurisdiction to inquire and report upon claims against 
 the Government, it could not authorize an appeal from such report to this court 
 unless our decision was made a final judgment, not subject to congressional review. 
 
 Congress can not extend the appellate power of this court beyond the limits pre- 
 scribed by the Constitution, and can neither confer not impose on it the duty of 
 hearing and determining an appeal from a commissioner or officer, or any other 
 •tribunal exercising only special powers under an act of Congress; nor can Congress 
 authorize or require this court to express an opinion on a case where its judicial power 
 coiild not be exercised and where its judgment would not be final and conclusive 
 upon the rights of the parties and process of execution awarded to carry it into effect. 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. If you will permit me, I will read this • 
 
 Mr. Bond. You may read it after I close my argument. 
 
 Senators, the case of Wallace v. Adams, taking up the citizenship 
 court legislation and holding that Congress is without authority or 
 power to interfere with the judgments of the Supreme Court of the 
 United States — and if the Supreme Court of the United States had 
 held as Mr. Ballinger stated, it could have been pleaded as res adjudi- 
 cata in the citizenship court, and with the great array of legal talent 
 that appeared in that court, evidently some one would have raised 
 the question. 
 
 Senator White. Is there any appeal from that court? 
 
 Mr. Bond. No appeal, but the Supreme Court passed on the act 
 which created the court and gave it jurisdiction to pass on the above 
 questions. 
 
 In reference to the great rush of cases in 1907, I want to show to 
 the committee that that matter was gone into very fully before the 
 Committee on Indian Affairs of the House of Representatives. 
 
 In addition to Mr. BaUinger appearing and making in part the same 
 argument that he made yesterday and to-day, Mr. Rodgers appeared 
 for the Chickasaw Tribe of Indians, and as Mr. Rodgers was on the 
 commission for a number of years, I desire to read to the committee 
 
INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 877 
 
 some of his statements and some of his answers to members of the 
 committee with reference to said rush of business. 
 
 This is headed "Statement of George D. Rodgers, Esq., attorney, 
 Muskogee, Okla." 
 
 The Chairman. You raight state first what, if any, your relation was with the Dawes 
 Commission. 
 
 Mr. RoDGBES. For about five years prior to July 1, 1907, I was connected with the 
 Dawes Commission as a law oflicer, and during the last few months as secretary of the 
 Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 Then he continues his argument in this manner : 
 
 Mr. MunpHY. I would like to ask Mr. Rodgers a question or two before I forget it. 
 Mr. Rodgers, it has been stated to this committee that in the final windup of the affairs 
 prior to the closing of the rolls on March 4, 1907, there were a good manv cases, 390, 
 1 belie\ e, decided on one day, incident to the hurry and nish of the business, and so 
 forth. I wish you would explain to the committee whether that is true or not, whether 
 they were considered, and all about it. 
 
 Mr. Rodgers. I desire to explain that, and I will go into it right now. 
 
 There were several very important cases which were decided by the department, 
 and they were made leading cases. They had to do with the cases which had been 
 before the commission in 1896, before the United States courts, and before the citizen- 
 ship court. The department gradually opened up the work more favorably to the 
 applicant as the court went on. Originally they held that a person who had been 
 denied enrollment in 1896 by the commission and had not appealed was absolutely 
 out. They afterwards modified that, and said that if they could show that they were 
 recognized citizens before 1896 the commission had no jurisdiction, and that they 
 were entitled. These questions were being thrashed out as they went along, and the 
 department decided them all in favor of the applicants. » * * All those cases 
 were decided by the department, and along in the year 1906, on the motion of the 
 attorney for the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, these cases were referred to the 
 Attorney General of the United States. The Attorneyy General's Office considered 
 the cases for a number of months. It was well known tha,t the cases were pending 
 before him, and it was well known by the commission and by the department. I do 
 not know whether it was known by the applicants, but at least the attorneys for the 
 applicants knew it, knew that they were in the Attorney General's Office. The com- 
 mission had already decided these cases. They had voluminous records, and the 
 facts were well known. The records were made up. The commission prepared 
 dockets, and made a list of the ^^^iley Adams cases, and made a list of the Lulu West 
 cases, and made a list of the Mary Elizabeth Martin cases, and had them all indexed, 
 so that when the decision of the Attorney General came, all they had to do was to 
 apply the law points and decide the cases. The facts were all set out fully. * * * 
 
 Mr. HiNSHAW. What was the decision in that case? 
 
 Mr. Rodgers. On February 19, 1907, the Attorney General rendered his decision 
 on these law points and held that the mere fact that the person had tribal recognition 
 before 1896 and submitted his case to the commission did not take the case out of the 
 jurisdiction of the commission, and that the decision rendered at that time, unless 
 appealed from, was final and binding. The commission immediately applied the law 
 questions which had been decided by the Attorney General to these cases, and they 
 were on well-defined lines. They were all cases that had been before the commission 
 of the courts or the citizenship court since 1896, except the Ethel Pearson case. * * * 
 
 Mr. Stephens. How many cases did they have to examine in the meantime? 
 
 Mr. Rodgers. I can not give you the exact figures. I know that the commission, 
 anticipating a decision of some land — they did not know what it was, but they knew 
 these questions were before the Attorney General — ^had prepared dockets of all these 
 different classes of cases. This I have explained before. 
 
 Throughout this entire hearing, which covered practically 500 
 
 Sages, practically the same questions were discussed as those being 
 iscussed before "^ this committee at this time, and Mr. Eodgers, who 
 was a law officer in the department for a number of years, stated that 
 all those cases were classified and docketed, that the facts were well 
 known in aU, and when these opinions were handed down by the 
 Attorney General, that it was an easy matter to apply the law to the 
 cases that they had classified, so it made but very little difference if 
 
878 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 there had been a rush; and he says that every one of those cases, 
 except the Pearson case, had been before either the citizenship court 
 or the commission or the Secretary of the Interior; and the Virginia 
 Savage case is one of the rush cases, which shows it had been passed 
 upon by all these departments and by every one of them adversely. 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. It does not fall into the class of cases that you 
 mention. 
 
 Mr. Bond. You could not teU. He mentioned three or four 
 instances there, and there are hundreds under each classification. 
 You could not teU. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. You do not claim that the Lulu West case, for 
 instance, was referred to the Attorney General for an opinion, do 
 you? 
 
 Mr. Bond. I claim the Lulu West case was decided by reason of 
 an opioion of the Attorney General. I do not claim that that par- 
 ticular case was referred, no; but Mr. Rodgers says that they classi- 
 fied the cases, and he names over three that come under certain 
 classes, and he says they docketed all those classifications, so that 
 when the opinion of the Attorney General was handed down it was 
 an easy matter to apply the law to those particular cases that had 
 been so classified. 
 
 Mr. Ballingeb. You know it is a fact that when the Attorney 
 General learned that they were applying some decisions rendered 
 by his office to other cases he stated that such was never his inten- 
 tion; that he had rendered the decision in the particular case on 
 the particular facts in that case, and that it shoiild not have been 
 apphed to these others. 
 
 Mr. Bond. I do not know that to be a fact; no. 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. There is his letter in these documents, dated 
 March 5, 1907, in which he so states. 
 
 Mr. Bond. You will have an opportunity to be heard, Mr. Bal- 
 linger. 
 
 I now desire to read to the committee the recommendation of the 
 Secretary of the Interior with reference to said cases, the so-called 
 rush cases, found in Senate Document 1139, Sixty-second Congress, 
 third session, entitled "Five Civilized Tribes in Oklahoma." I will 
 just read in part from the letter: 
 
 Complaints have been made that applicants were wrongfully rejected because of 
 the press of work before the department during the last few weeks of enrollment, 
 because of misconstruction of the laws by the commission and by the department, 
 because of inadequate and inequitable provisions in the laws, and in respect of the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes because of unwarranted decisions by the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw citizenship court. 
 
 The Chairman. Are you reading from the Secretary's report? 
 Mr. Bond. Yes, sir. 
 The Chairman. What date ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. February 12, 1910, addressed to Hon. Moses E. Clapp. 
 After discussiag that class of cases and other classes of cases, the 
 Secretary concludes as follows: 
 
 In conclusion, I am constrained to believe, and therefore recommend, that the rolls 
 be not opened up, but that particular authority be given to the Secretary of the 
 Interior to place upon the rolls those Indians, about 52 m number, whose applications 
 were approved by the Commissioner of the Five Civilized Tribes and were transmitted 
 to Washington before the 4th of March, 1907, but did not reach the department until 
 after the rolls were closed; and, furthermore, that proper authority be given to the 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 879 
 
 Secretary of the Interior to examine and place upon the rolls the minor orphan chil- 
 dren, incompetents, and Indians in incarceration whose claims were not presented in 
 due time for adjudication. I am informed that this class numbers about 200. No 
 one seems to have taken the responsibility of presenting the claims of this class for 
 consideration. They could not look after their own interests. 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 R. A. Ballingee, Secretary. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Have they been now enrolled by the act of 
 Congress last year ? 
 
 Mi. Bond. Yes, sir. I am just arriving at that now, Mr. Chairman. 
 In this same document appears a report of Mr. Pollock, dated 
 January 15, 1912, running from page 40 to page 44. Mr. Pollock 
 has abridged this Est, I understand, from a report made by Mr. 
 Howell. It has this caption: "List of persons apparently entitled 
 to enrollment in the Seminole Nation, but whose names were omitted 
 because no application was made or by reason of mistake or over- 
 sight." 
 
 It then gives 8 names in the Seminole Nation. Then follows 
 a Hst of persons apparently entitled to enroUnaent in the Creek 
 Nation, and it gives 62; a list of persons apparently entitled to 
 enrollment in the Cherokee Nation, and it gives a list of 125; under 
 Cherokee freedmen, a list of 7; Chickasaw freedmen, a list of 1; 
 list of persons apparently entitled to enrollment in the Choctaw 
 Nation: Choctaws by blood, 21; Mississippi Choctaws, a list of 5; 
 intermarried Choctaws, a list of 1. Then follows a list of persons 
 "Apparently entitled to enrollment as Choctaw freedmen," con- 
 taining 18. 
 
 I wnl not take up the time of the committee to go over the list, 
 but he gives a number of people who were entitled in each particidar 
 nation. 
 
 Senator Gronna. What position did Mr. PoUock hold ? 
 Mr. Bond. He was one of the attorneys in the Interior Department. 
 Senator Gronna. I think you said, there were five members, 
 Choctaws, who were entitled according to Mr. Pollock? 
 Mr. Bond. They were enrolled. 
 Senator Gronna. They were ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Yes, sir. I wiU give you the manner in which they 
 were enrolled and the hst. 
 
 This is a Senate document, and I desire to read the language of 
 the Secretary because there seems to be some misunderstanding 
 between the Senators as regards the language that was used. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Is that the report upon which that last 
 list was enrolled last year ? 
 Mr. Bond. Yes, sir. 
 The Acting Chairman. Read it. 
 
 Mr. Bond. "Department of the Interior, Washington, April 24, 
 1914. My Dear Senator: In response to your request of April 22 I 
 am inclosing herewith a list of the names of persons who, upon the 
 investigation heretofore made, have been found apparently equitably 
 entitled to enrollment on the roUs of the various tribes composing 
 the Five Civilized Tribes of Oklahoma. The date as to each of these 
 names have been heretofore submitted to the Committee on Indian 
 Affairs of the Senate and may be found in Senate Document No. 
 1138, Sixty-second Congress, third sessionj 
 
880 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 "This list contains the names of all those whom the department 
 has found equitably entitled to enrollment, omitting, as suggested, 
 the names of new iDorn Choctaw freedmen." _ 
 
 Senator La Follette. Let me inquire what that means omitted 
 as suggested" ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. They omitted the Choctaw freedmen. 
 
 Senator -La Follette. I understand they omitted some, .but 
 where does that suggestion come from— " omitted as suggested"? 
 
 Mr. Bond. The suggestion came from me, if the Senator please. 
 The freedmen in the Chickasaw Nation were all allotted 40 acres of 
 land, and the Chickasaws contended that the Government was with- 
 out authority to allot freedmen land, and sued the United States for 
 the value of the land allotted to the Chickasaw freedmen and recov- 
 ered the appraised value of the land from the Government. I sug- 
 gested, as one of the attorneys, that if they emolled any freedmen in 
 my country, where the lands had all been allotted, the moneys would 
 have to come out of the Government Treasury, and if there were lands 
 in my tribe and some were allotted, I would sue the Government for 
 the value thereof, and perhaps other attorneys took the same posi- 
 tion. But that was my suggestion, that if these freedmen were 
 emolled, the Government would have to pay for same. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. The Secretary says "all" those, does he? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. The freedman is entitled to this 40-acre 
 allotment ? ~ 
 
 Mr. Bond. Not in my nation. 
 
 Senator White. He claims different Indian land. The Govern- 
 ment could make a donation but could not give them the Indian 
 lands. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. That is how they recovered judgment. 
 
 Mr. Bond. And the court so held that the freedmen were not 
 entitled to Indian lands and the Government was forced to pay the 
 Indians for the land. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. The letter of the Secretary says that is all 
 that he found ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Were they enrolled by act of Congress ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. They were aU enrolled by act of Congress; yes, sir. 
 
 If it please the committee, I have done what I could since accepting 
 the attorneyship of the nation to see that all Indians who were entitled 
 to enrollment were enrolled. I made such an examination of this 
 list and raised no objection except to the freedmen, and I am willing, 
 now, as attorney for the tribe, to recommend the enrollment of any 
 Indian who is equitably entitled to enrollment in my tribe. 
 
 Senator White. Which tribe is that? 
 
 Mr. Bond. The Chickasaw Tribe. 
 
 There are very few applicants for enrollment in the Chickasaw 
 Nation — very few. I have convinced myself that none of the appli- 
 cants for enrollment in the Chickasaw Nation are entitled to enroll- 
 ment because all these applications I have examined have heretofore 
 been denied and I consider the matter res ajudicata. But if I were 
 convinced, after careful examination of any of the records, that these 
 Chickasaws were entitled to enrollment, I would not stand in the way 
 
IKDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 881 
 
 of enrollment, but I would most earnestly and most seriously object 
 to reopening of my tribal roUs. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Let me ask you this, if you please: The 
 people whose cases were investigated by Pollock included none of 
 the cases involved in that rush period ? Am I right about that ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. He was given directions to investigate 
 specific cases? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And by the direction of whom he was not 
 permitted to investigate the case of any of those involved in the rush 
 period ? Is not that right ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. I think that is true, but we enrolled 52 persons who did 
 appear in the rush period and whom the department recommended 
 for enrollment, and we have enrolled every applicant for citizenship 
 whom the department recommended as entitled to enrollment. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But it distinctly appears from the letter of 
 the Secretary addressed to Congress at the time that rush period was 
 on that he could not investigate these rush cases, and that they were 
 rubber-stamped with a decision without investigation and never had 
 an investigation in that office and a final determination by the Secre- 
 tary. Is not that true ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. I would not go that far. The letter speaks for itself. 
 
 The Acting Chaieman. Mr. Bond was not at that time, I think, 
 attorney for these people. Mr. Hastings is very familiar with thai 
 matter, and he explained it, though I do not know whether the 
 Senator heard his explanation or not. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes; I heard his explanation. 
 
 Mr. Bond. I want to leave this thought with you: If you are con- 
 sidering conferring jurisdiction upon any court or upon any tribunal 
 to hear citizenship cases, do not do it at a hearing of a few hom-s like 
 you have had in this particular case, but appoint a subcommittee and 
 give us a careful and painstaking hearing. Give us an opportunity 
 to go into the department and go into the com-ts and produce the 
 evidence and the entire records of the cases that are being presented 
 to the committee. This matter involves millions of dollars. It 
 means almost everything to the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, 
 and it also means a great deal to the State of Oklahoma; and for a 
 committee on two or three hoiu-s' hearing, without the complete 
 record of a single case before it, to even thmk about deahng with a 
 question of this magnitude is almost appalling to me. 
 
 I thank the committee. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee about 
 adjourning over until Monday morning ? 
 
 Senator White. I think very well of that suggestion at this time. 
 
 The Acting Chairman. Shall we adjourn until 10.30 on Monday 
 morning? Without objection it wiU be so ordered. 
 
 (Thereupon at 5 o'clock p. m. the committee adjourned until Mon- 
 day, February 2%, 1915, at lp,^<|g'g^^ft) if <^ 
 
 82833-15 5 J^^^:^ jy.^JQ|;,r COLLEGE 
 
 ONEONTA, N. Y. 
 
 BY 
 
 51 P. KINNEY 
 
INDEX. 
 
 A. 
 Arizona and New Mexico: ' Page. 
 
 Water supply for Papago Indian villages 275 764 
 
 Irrigation, Gila River Indian Reservation 3' 278 
 
 Construction of dam at Florence, Gila River 498^520 
 
 Statement of Hon. Carl Haydn 493 
 
 Statement of S. M. Brossius !"".!"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 506 
 
 B. 
 
 Board of Indian Commissioners 269 
 
 Statement of Mr. George Vaux ."..'.'.".'.".'.'.".'.".'.'.' 566 
 
 Statement of Mr. Warren K. Moorehead 1 .'!.!.!.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.!! ! 567 
 
 Statement of Mr. Daniel Smiley " .' 568 
 
 Statement of Mr. Edward E. Aver .'.'.....'.'.."..'.'. 574 
 
 Statement of Rev. William D. Walker '.'.'.......".....'.". 575 
 
 Statement of Mr. Frank Knox .'..'.."....'.'.'.'."..'. 594. 
 
 Bookkeeping system, Indian Bureau -. " " ] 291 
 
 0. 
 
 California: 
 
 Support of Indians in CaUfomia 4 
 
 Purchase of lands for homeless Indians in California. : 6-521 
 
 Indian school, Riverside, Cal 5 
 
 Irrigation allotments, Yuma Reservation 7 
 
 Indian school, Fort Bidwell, Cal .' . 6 
 
 Indian school, Greenville 6 
 
 Statement of Hon. John E. Raker 521 
 
 Statement of Hon. Denver S. Church 522 
 
 Statement of Hon. William Kent 524 
 
 Statement of Rev. F. G. CoUett 525 
 
 Statement of Dr. E. L. Eliot 528 
 
 Choctaws, per capita payment 37 
 
 71, 291, 309, 359, 430, 435, 446, 531, 595, 634, 639, 645, 740, 775 
 
 Crow Indian Reservation 121, 721 
 
 Mr. Clapp's amendment thereto 442 
 
 E. 
 
 Education, Sioux tribes (school question) 40, 65, 290, 511, 601, 630 
 
 Statement of S. M. Broasius 602,695 
 
 Statement of Charles S. Liisk 611-691 
 
 Statement of Rev. William H. Ketcham 617 
 
 Statement of Rev. H. K. Carroll : 623 
 
 Statement of Mr. Canten, chief school section 677 
 
 Statement of Dr. H. Paul Douglas 694 
 
 Statement of Thomas L. F. Sloan 696 
 
 Execution of deeds and leases by Indians 486 
 
 F. 
 Florida: Support of Seminoles 7 
 
 883 
 
884 INDEX. 
 
 G. p^^ 
 
 General items: £,' 
 
 Irrigation, Indian reservations - • ^°" 
 
 Purchase and transportation of Indian supplies ^orf, oU) 
 
 Expenses of Indian Commissioners ^o9 
 
 Inspectors, Indian Service f''^ 
 
 Negotiating agreements with Indian tribes ----- ^»o 
 
 Controlling pro rata share of incompetent Indians in tribal funds, act 
 
 March 2, 1907 f58 
 
 Extending restrictive period on alienation of lands. 304 
 
 Execution of deeds and leases 486, 733 
 
 H. 
 
 Hayden, Carl, statement of. 498 
 
 History of 'Indian immigration - 460 
 
 I. 
 Idaho: 
 
 Support of Indians, Fort Hall Eeservation 8 
 
 Irrigation system, Fort Hall Reservation 8 
 
 Support of Bannocks U 
 
 Support of Coeur d'Alenes 11 
 
 Sanatorium, Fort Lapwai 12 
 
 Incompetent Indians, payment of funds of 767 
 
 Indian immigration, history oi : 460 
 
 Iowa: Sanatorium, Sac and Fox Agency 12 
 
 J. 
 
 Joint Commission to Investigate Indian Affairs 175, 714, 727, 774 
 
 K. 
 
 Kansas: Indian school, Haskell Institute, Lawrence 12 
 
 Kappler, Charles J., payment to 176,306 
 
 Kickapoo Indian School. . .". 13 
 
 L. 
 
 Laws and treaties pertaining to Indian affairs 176, 306 
 
 Leases of lands. Five Civilized Tribes 43,427,699 
 
 Leasing of unallotted grazing lands 185, 197, 202 
 
 Statement of Senator Miles Poindexter 199 
 
 Leases, deeds, etc., execution of, with Indians made unlawful 486,733 
 
 Louisiana: Relief of Chettimanchi Tribe in 445 
 
 Lee, Albert, judgment against 634 
 
 M. 
 
 Michigan: Indian school, Mount Pleasant 13 
 
 Minnesota: 
 
 Indian school, Pipestone 13 
 
 Support of Chippewas of the Mississippi 13 
 
 Tribal funds, Chippewas, civilization, and self-support 14 
 
 General Council Chippewa Indians 259, 565 
 
 White Earth celebration 14 
 
 Enrollment of Chippewa allottees 14 
 
 Hospital, tribal funds, Chippewas 21 
 
 Payment to individual Chippewas 15 
 
 Red Lake Reservation 20 
 
 Payment of assessments, highways 400 
 
 Indian school, White Earth 701 
 
 Montana: 
 
 Support of Indians, Fort Belknap 108 
 
 Support of Indians, Flathead Agency. . , 108 
 
 Support of Indians, Fort Peck 112 
 
INDEX. 885 
 
 Montana — Continued. Page. 
 
 Support of Indians, Blackfeet Agency 112, 774 
 
 Milk River irrigation system. Fort Belknap 121 
 
 Fulfilling treaties with Crows 121, 721, 775 
 
 Support of Northern Cheyennes and Arapahoes 121 
 
 Line riders, Northern Cheyenne Reservation .- 124 
 
 Support of Rocky Boy's Band of Chippewas 124 (see Mss. p. — ). 
 
 Tribal funds of Blackfeet Indians, purchase of cattle 125 
 
 Extending time for repayment of funds appropriated for Fort Belknap 
 
 Indians 128 
 
 Sale of timber and lands, Flathead Reservation 375 
 
 Irrigation system, Flathead, Blackfeet, and Fort Peck Reservations. 130-149, 361 
 
 N. 
 
 Nebraska: Indian school, Genoa 22, 231 
 
 Nevada: 
 
 Support of Indians in Nevada 22, 226 
 
 Indian school, Carson City 22 
 
 Washoe Indians, purchase of lands and support 226, 252, 306 
 
 New Mexico: 
 
 Indian school, Albuquerque 22-728 
 
 Indian school, Santa Fe 23-728 
 
 Counsel for Pueblo Indians 23 
 
 Authorizing acceptance of trusts from Pueblo Indians 286 
 
 Jicarilla Reservation, N. Mex., amending act of March 4, 1907 287 
 
 New York: 
 
 Fulfilling treaties with Senecas ■. . 23 
 
 Fulfilling treaties with Six Nations 23 
 
 Determining claim of Ogden Land Co 288 
 
 General Indian conditions in New York 579-594 
 
 North Carolina: Indian school, Cherokee 24 
 
 North Dakota: 
 
 Support of Sioux, Devils Lake 207 
 
 Support of Indians, Fort Berthold 207 
 
 Support of Chippewas, Turtle Mountain Band 207 
 
 Indian school, Bismarck 207 
 
 Indian school, Fort Totten 217 
 
 Redemption of Starr McGiUis mortgage 288 
 
 Indian school, Wahpeton : 220 
 
 Headstone for Scarlet Crow, a Sioux Indian. 223 
 
 Claims of Sisseton and Wahpeton Bands of Sioux Indians 735 
 
 0. 
 
 Oklahoma: 
 
 Support of Wichitas and affiliated bands 24 
 
 Tribal funds. Apaches, Kiowas, and Comanches (agency and employees).. 24 
 
 Tribal funds. Apaches, Kiowas, and Comanches (homesteads) 24 
 
 Support of Cheyennes and Arapahoes, Oklahoma 25 
 
 Support of Kansas Indians, Oklahoma 25 
 
 Support of Kickapoos, Oklahoma 24 
 
 Kickapoo Indians and affiliated tribes, removing restrictions of 290 
 
 Support of Poncas, Oklahoma 25 
 
 Indian school, Chilocco, Oklahoma 25 
 
 Granting Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway right of way through lands 
 
 of Chilocco Indian School 632 
 
 Fulfilling treaties with Pawnees, Oklaihoma 25 
 
 Support of Quapaws, Oklahoma. 26 
 
 Women's board of domestic missions 26 
 
 Lands for cemetery purposes, Pittsburg County 728 
 
 Five Civilized Tribes — 
 
 Administration of affairs of 27 
 
 Probate attorneys in 30, 427 
 
 Cherokee Orphan Training School 30 
 
 Indian schools in 40,290,629 
 
 tribal funds, schools 459 
 
886 INDEX. 
 
 Oklahoma — Continued . 
 
 Five Civilized Tribes — Continued. 
 
 Osage tribal funds, pay of interest and other revenue to be controlled Page. 
 
 by department 561, 702, 802 
 
 Sale of unallotted land of Five Civilized Tribes 30 
 
 Fulfilling treaties with Choctaws - 36 
 
 Sanatorium, Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians 42 
 
 Eeservation of land for Jones Academy 290 
 
 Per capita payment to Choctaws 37, 
 
 71, 291, 809, 359, 430, 435, 446, 531, 595, 684, 639, 645, 740, 775 
 
 Senator Clapp's amendment thereto 442 
 
 Vote thereon 661 
 
 Statement of Senator R. L. Owen 74, 645 
 
 Statement of Hon. Pat Harrison _. 82 
 
 Statement of Webster Ballinger 639, 786 
 
 Statement of P. J. Hurley 596 
 
 Statement of J. F. McMurray 740 
 
 Statement of Bedford Bond 359 
 
 Statement of Henry W. Blair 359 
 
 Statement of Walter S. Field 776 
 
 Statement of Melvin Cornish 250 
 
 Statement of Charles Carter 250 
 
 Statement of William Murray 250 
 
 Statement of tribal funds of 455, 532 
 
 Oil and gas inspectors. Five Civilized Tribes 38 
 
 Vacating certain Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache lands ". 719 
 
 Denison Coal Co ; 722 
 
 Validity of leases executed by members of Five Civilized Tribes. ... 48, 427, 699 
 
 Purchase of land for Wheelock Academy 
 
 Relief of C. B.Jordan, L. McCan, and W. P.Wheeler 291 
 
 Payment to M. L. Mott, attorney Creek Nation 305 
 
 Roadway, Choctaw Nation, Oklahoma 38 
 
 Withholding from allotment lands recovered for Creek Nation 39, 224, 282, 311 
 
 Statement of J. George Wright 412 
 
 Statement of M . L. Mott 311 
 
 Statement of W . V . Thomas , 311, 416 
 
 Statement of George Reed 339 
 
 Statement of E. B. Meritt 402 
 
 Hospital, Kiowa, Comanche, Apache, and Wichita Indians 707 
 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians, claims against 740 
 
 Loyal Creek lands 41 
 
 Kendall College, payment to 48, 443, 708, 714 
 
 Statement of Capt. G. W. Grayson 710, 714 
 
 Prohibition law, enforcement of, Five Civilized Tribes 70 
 
 Oregon: 
 
 Support of Indians, Klamath Agency. 63 
 
 Support of Indians, Warm Springs Agency 62 
 
 Support of Indians of Umatilla Agency 63 
 
 Indian school, Sajem 63 
 
 Support of Indians, Grande Rond and Siletz Agencies 64 
 
 Maintenance and operation Modoc Point irrigation system 64 
 
 P. 
 
 Pennsylvania: Support of Carlisle School for Indians 61 
 
 S. 
 
 Schools, tribal fimds used in where conducted by donations 40, 65, 
 
 290, 511, 601, 630, 672 
 
 Statement of S. M. Brossius 602 
 
 Statement of Charles S. Lusk 611 
 
 Statement Rev. William H. Ketcham 617 
 
 Statement of Rev. H. K. Carroll 623 
 
 System of bookkeeping, Indian Bureau 291 
 
INDEX. 887 
 
 South. Dakota; Page. 
 
 Indian school, Flandreau 61 
 
 Indian school, Pierre ' 62 
 
 Indian school, Rapid City 65 
 
 Support of Sioux of different tribes -. 65 
 
 EdVication, Sioux Nation 40, 65, 290, 511, 601, 630-672 
 
 Support of Sioux, Yankton Tribe 65 
 
 Asylum for insane Indians, Canton 65 
 
 Wagon road. Standing Rock Reservation 68, 201 
 
 U. 
 Utah: 
 
 Support of Confederated Bands of Utes 179 
 
 Support of Indians in Utah 179 
 
 Tribal funds. Confederated Bands of Utes 179 
 
 Support of Confederated Bands of Utes (seeds and implements) 179 
 
 Irrigation system, Uintah Reservation 179 
 
 Negotiation of agreement with Confederated Band of Utes 401-663 
 
 W. 
 
 Washington: 
 
 Support of D'Wamish and other allied tribes 193 
 
 Support of Makahs 194 
 
 Support of Quinaielts and Quillehutes 193 
 
 Support of Yakimas, Yakima Agency 194 
 
 Support of Indians of Colville Agency 193 
 
 Support of Spokanes ■ 195 
 
 Irrigation, Yakima Reservation 194 
 
 Construction of dam across Yakima River 195, 197 
 
 Indian school, Tacoma 195 
 
 Statement of Senator W. L. Jones 197-231 
 
 Statement of Hon. Miles Poindexter 199 
 
 Patents to Kami Sam and others 202 
 
 Granting lands to Yakima School 206 
 
 Granting lands to State Historical Society 206, 231 
 
 Allotment to Charles M. Hickerson 301 
 
 Wisconsin: 
 
 Indian school, Hayward 242 
 
 Indian school, Tomah 242 
 
 Support of Chippewas of Lake Superior 246 
 
 Support of Pottawatomies 246 
 
 Amending section 3 of act of March 28, 1908 248 
 
 Sidewalks, village of Odanah _. 252 
 
 Forest products, Menominee Reservation 248 
 
 ^tockbridge and Munsee Tribes of Indians 253, 436 
 
 Sale of timber. Bad River and Lac de Flambeau Reservations 762 
 
 Wyoming: 
 
 Support of Shoshones 237 
 
 Indian school, Shoshone 237 
 
 Support of Shoshone employees - 237 
 
 Irrigation system, Wind River Diminished Reservation 239 
 
 Repairs to Fort Washakie military post - • ■ 238 
 
 Enlargement and construction of Le Clair and Riverton Ditches, Wind 
 
 River Reservation 515 
 
 Statement of Frank W. Mondell 515 
 
 6 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL 
 HEARINGS 
 
 BEFORE THE 
 
 COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS 
 UNITED STATES SENATE 
 
 SIXTY-THIRD CONGEESS 
 
 THIRD SESSION 
 ON 
 
 H. R. 20150 
 
 AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE CURRENT AND CON- 
 TINGENT EXPENSES OF THE BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, 
 FOR FULFILLING TREATY STIPULATIONS WITH VARI- 
 OUS INDIAN TRIBES, AND FOR OTHER PUR- 
 POSES, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 
 ENDING JUNE 30, 1916 
 
 Printed for the use of the Committee on Indian Affairs 
 
 VOLUME 2 
 
 (SUPPLEMENT) 
 
 PRESENTED TO 
 
 Hartwick Colli 
 
 ONEONTA, N. Y. 
 
 BY ,/ 
 
 K P. KINNEY 
 
 WASHINGTON 
 
 GOVERNMENT FEINTING OFFICE 
 
 1»16 
 
77 
 
 COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS. 
 
 HENRY F. ASHURST, Arizona, Chairman. 
 
 HENRY L. MYERS, Montana. FRANCIS S. WHITE, Alabama. 
 
 KEY PITTMAN, Nevada. MOSES E. CLAPP, Minnesota. 
 
 HARRY LANE, Oregon. ROBERT M. LA FOLLETTE, Wisconsin. 
 
 JOE T. ROBINSON, Arkansas. CARROLL S. PAGE, Vermont. 
 
 WILLIAM H. THOMPSON, Kansas. ASLE J. GRONNA, North Dakota. 
 
 ROBERT L. OWEN, Oklahoma. CHARLES E. TOWNSEND, Michigan. 
 
 JAMES HAMILTON LEWIS, Illinois. ALBERT B. FALL, New Mexico. 
 
 M. I. McKelugon, CTerJc. 
 
 3£369C 
 
 X 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 FEBRTJABY 22, 1915. 
 
 United States Senate, 
 Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. 
 
 Present: Senators Ashm'st, Myers, Pittman, Lane, Robinson, 
 Thompson, Owen, White, Clapp, La FoUette, Page, Gronna, Town- 
 send, and Fall; also, Mr. E. B. Meritt, Assistant Commissioner of 
 Indian Affairs. 
 
 statement concerning CHOCTAW TRIBAL FUNDS, LAND, AND OTHER 
 
 COMMON PROPERTY. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I ask that there be incorporated in 
 the record the following statement, prepared by the Commissioner of 
 Indian Affairs, regarding the Choctaw tribal funds, land, and other 
 common property. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The following statement of the funds and estimated 
 value of the tribal property of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nation 
 was prepared by the department. 
 
 The Chairman. That will go into the record. 
 
 (The paper referred to is as follows:) 
 
 Statement concerning Choctaw tribal funds, land, and other common property. 
 
 TRIBAL FUNDS OP CHOCTAW NATION, BALANCE IN UNITED STATES TREASURY DEC. 4, 1914. 
 
 Fulfilling treaties with Choctaws, Oklahoma $31, 560. 00 
 
 Interest on Choctaw general fund 3. 76 
 
 Choctaw orphan fund 39, 710. 69 
 
 Interest on Choctaw orphan fund 5, 956. 62 
 
 Choctaw school fund 49, 472. 70 
 
 Interest on Choctaw school fund 7, 420. 92 
 
 Choctaw 3 per cent fund 310, 364. 01 
 
 Interest on Choctaw 3 per cent fund 31, 971. 80 
 
 Judgment, Court of Claims, Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations 86. 08 
 
 Interest on Choctaw moneys on deposit in banks 66, 380. 62 
 
 Indian moneys, proceeds of labor; 
 
 Choctaw cattle tax 1. 006. 42 
 
 Choctaw right of way 6, 521. 18 
 
 Choctaw royalties, grazing, etc 393, 684. 42 
 
 Choctaw stone and timber 4, 484. 95 
 
 Choctaw town lots JI' ioo' on 
 
 Choctaw unallotted lands, etc !> '''8, 738. 80 
 
 Balance in Treasury 'Dec. 4, 1914 2, 764, 518. 99 
 
 ^^P°Dlf 4"l9°if ''°"' ^"''" $3, 235, 606. 72 
 
 Interest to June 30, 1914 _^^!l!^ 3, 440, 998. 88 
 
 Grand total ^' ^9fi' 7fi7 99 
 
 Interest paid prior to July 1, 1914 ^b,^b^. Z^ 
 
 3 
 
4 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 PtlNDS RECEIVED (AMOUNTS APPROXIMATE) TO THE CREDIT OP THE CHOCTAW AND 
 CHICKASAW NATIONS — PROCEEDS OP TRIBAL LAND SALES IN NOVEMBER AND 
 DECEMBER, 1914, 
 
 Amount received at sale of surface of segregated coal and asphalt land 
 
 (approximate) $426, 825. 26 
 
 Amount received at sale of tribal timberland (approximate) 117, 211. 76 
 
 Total 544, 037. 02 
 
 Choctaw tribal share of the above proceeds of tribal-land sales, on the 
 basis of a three-fouiths interest therein, amounts to (approximate) . . 408, 027. 76 
 
 AMOUNT (approximate) OP DEPERRED PAYMENTS (TO BE COLLECTED) ON CHOCTAW 
 AND CHICKASAW TRIBAL LANDS SOLD. 
 
 Amount of deferred payments on surface of segregated coal and asphalt 
 
 lands sold (approximate amount to be collected) SI, 280, 475. 80 
 
 Amount of deferred payments on tribal timberlands sold (approximate 
 amount to be collected) .^ 1, 446, 818. 92 
 
 Amount of deferred payments on other surplus unallotted tribal land 
 
 (approximate amount to be collected) 3, 454, 391. 47 
 
 Total 6, 181, 686. 19 
 
 Choctaw tribal share of the above deferred uncollected payments, on 
 the basis of a three-fourths interest therein, amounts to (approxi- 
 mate) 4,636,264.64 
 
 ESTIMATED VALUE OF UNSOLD CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW TRIBAL LAND AND OTHER 
 
 TRIBAL PROPERTY. 
 
 215,203 acres, segregated coal and asphalt land; 
 
 Estimated value of surface $1, 847, 604. 09 
 
 Estimated value of coal and asphalt deposits 12, 319, 000. 00 
 
 823,521.84 acres tribal timber land, estimated value of land and timber. 1, 806, 887. 14 
 
 25,600 acres, other surplus unallotted tribal land 75, 000. 00 
 
 Unsold town lots 51, 000. 00 
 
 Other tribal property,' including school buildings and Choctaw 
 
 capitol building 50, 000. 00 
 
 Total estimate of unsold property 16, 149, 491. 23 
 
 Choctaw tribal share of the unsold land and other property, upon the 
 basis of a three-fourths interest therein (estimated value) 12, 112, 118. 42 
 
 RECAPITULATION. 
 
 Funds in United States Treasury and in banks to credit of Choctaw 
 
 Nation, as shown by books of Indian Office December 4, 1914 $6, 205, 517. 87 
 
 Choctaw Nation's share (approximate) : 
 
 In proceeds of sales of tribal land in November and December, 
 
 1914 ■ _... 408,027.76 
 
 In uncollected deferred payments on tribal land sold (approxi- 
 mate) 4; 636, 264. 64 
 
 In unsold tribal land and other property (estimated value) 12, 112, 118.42 
 
 Total 23, 361, 928. 69 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Indian appropri- 
 ation bill be reported favorably to the Senate, and I move that the 
 committee do now adjourn sine die. 
 
 The Chairman. There are several matters to be considered before 
 we do that. I am in sympathy with that motion, however. 
 
 Senator 0\ven. I wish the record to show that I reserve the right 
 to make a point of order on the items that have been passed while I 
 TVas not present in attendance on the committee. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 5 
 
 The Chairman. That will be done, and the Chair reserves the same 
 right. What is the pleasure of the committee ? 
 
 Senator Lane. Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. Ballinger desires to be 
 heard for a few minutes. I understand that he had not finished his 
 remarks. 
 
 CHOCTAWS AND CHICKASAWS REOPENING OF THE ROLLS. 
 
 ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF WEBSTER BAllINGEK, ATTOR- 
 NEY AT LAW, WASHINGTON, D. C. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, 
 I would like, as I have taken the initiative in this matter, to be heard 
 in answer to the new matters raised by the gentleman on the opposite 
 side. I am perfectly willing to wait until the conclusion of all that 
 may be said on the other side. 
 
 The Chairman. You may proceed now. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Senators, the first matter that I desire to refer 
 to is that which relates to the statements made by members of the 
 Oklahoma delegation, and by the attorney for the Chickasaw Nation 
 relative to contracts held by myself, or in which I was interested. 
 
 They called your attention to a hearing held before the House com- 
 mittee in March, 1910, in which I stated that I then represented 
 10,000 Choctaw or Chickasaw Indians. .At the time that statement 
 was made, in March, 1910, I had been denied access to the Govern- 
 ment records. Statements in 10,000 cases had been presented to me 
 which on their face presented a prima facie showing of right, and upon 
 those statements I made that representation to the House committee. 
 At the time of that hearing the salient facts now known were then 
 unknown. After that hearing in 1910 a select committee of the House 
 of Representatives went to the Indian Territory and conducted an 
 investigation into Indian contracts. While there the members of 
 that committee saw many of the unenroUed Indians, talked with them 
 personally, and through the agency of that committee I secured access 
 to the Governmental records at Muskogee. In October and Novem- 
 ber and December, 1910, I went to the Dawes Commission at Musko- 
 gee and personally, and with able assistance, examined the records, 
 and out of that list of 10,000 applicants I discarded the claims of 
 about 8,000; the rights of the remaining, about 2,000 claims, being 
 shown by the governmental records, and since that time no man has 
 ever heard me make a statement that I was representing 10,000 Choc- 
 taw or Chickasaw claimants. 
 
 Now, one word as to contracts, and I am sorry that the Members 
 of the Oklahoma delegation in the House are not here to hear this. 
 By the act of June 30, 1913, there was inserted a provision in the 
 Indian appropriation bill that rendered void every contract to which 
 the assent of the United States had not been given that touched the 
 lands or funds of the Indians in the hands of the United States. That 
 act struck down and rendered void every contract that I had with the 
 claimants in which I was interested. Not content with that act, by 
 the act of August 1, 1914, a further provision was inserted reenacting 
 the provision contained in the law of 1913, and making it a criminal 
 offense for a man to collect a penny under any contract to which the 
 
6 INDIAN APPE.OPEIATION BILL. 
 
 assent of the United States had not been given. That legislation was 
 passed at the instance of the Oklahoma delegation, and by it every 
 contract in which I was interested was rendered void. The members 
 of the Oklahoma delegation know those contracts, rendered void, are 
 unenforceable, if they understand the meaning of their own enact- 
 ment. Then why this talk about my beinga beneficiary under those 
 contracts by any legislation that may be enacted by Congress enroll- 
 ino' Indians who are justly entitled to be enrolled, to the extent of 
 mShons of dollars. Such talk is worse than the talk of old women 
 at a sewing circle, repeating aU the neighborhood gossip. They know 
 there is nothing to it, and yet in the debates of Congress, that is the 
 one sahent reason assigned by them why no legislation should be 
 enacted for the protection or recognition of the rights of these Indian 
 claimants. 
 
 Now, Senators, let us come to the real issue in the case. You were 
 told by the Hon. C. D. Carter, a Member of the House of Represen- 
 tatives from Oklahoma and an enrolled member of the Chickasaw 
 Tribe, that if there was a single Indian entitled to enrollment in the 
 Chickasaw Nation who was not enrolled, he was in favor of enroUing 
 him. 
 
 You were told by the Hon. William H. Murray, a Member of the 
 House of Representatives and a member of Choctaw Tribe, that if 
 there was a smgle Indian entitled to enrollment as a member of the 
 Choctaw Tribe, he was in fa.vor of enrolling him. 
 
 You were told by the attorney for the Chickasaws that such was 
 his poeition. 
 
 You were told by the former attorney for the Cherokees and Con- 
 gressman elect William Hastings that if there were any Indians 
 entitled to enrollment as Cherokees he was in favor of enrolliag them. 
 
 Those are the statements made by not only the official representa- 
 tives in part of the State of Oklahoma, but members of the tribes 
 affected. 
 
 Now they say that if you make any inquiry, or attempt to make 
 any inquiry, to ascertain whether or not there are any such persons, 
 it will be like stirring up a nest of rattlesnakes, that a hundred thou- 
 sand applications will pour in on you and that you will never get 
 through the work, and that great frauds will be perpetrated. Sena- 
 tors, if that poHcy had obtained throughout the history of this world, 
 there would never have been a court. If to afford a man an opportu- 
 nity to have his case inquired into opens the door to fraud, then the 
 doors to our courts should be closed. Those statements are, to my 
 mind, gross exaggerations. Each one of those gentlemen, with the 
 exception of Mr. Murray, told you that he had no personal knowledge 
 of a single person entitled to enrollment, and I now want to introduce 
 those Congressmen and also the members of those tribes to some of 
 their constituents and brother Indians. 
 
 In Senate Document No. 1139, Sixty-second Congress, third session, 
 on page 439, appears the case of Sally Berryman. That record was 
 filed with the committees of Congress and in the department, and 
 service made upon the tribal attorneys in December, 1910. 
 
 Senator Owen. Mr. Ballinger, may I ask who filed that record? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I wiU answer it fully in just one moment. Senator. 
 Due service of a copy of that was made in December, 1910, as will 
 appear from the latter portion containing the certifications of this 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 7 
 
 record appearing in this document upon both the officers of the de- 
 partment and the attorneys for the tribe. This record appearing in 
 this document was compiled by me as attorney for Sally Berryman 
 and from the official records, with citation to the official records, and 
 the service was made upon the attorney for the Choctaw Nation, and 
 the department, in order that they might be afforded full opportunity 
 to examine the records and be prepared, when a hearing was had 
 before a committee of Congress or any other tribunal, to controvert 
 any statement therein contained. That was a fair proposition, and 
 no man has yet come forward to challenge the accuracy of the state- 
 ments contamed in that record, although it has now been five years 
 since it was compiled. 
 
 Who is Sally Barryman? A seven-eighths Choctaw Indian by 
 blood. What is the story of her case ? Her parents died while re- 
 moving from Mississippi to the Choctaw Nation. She was left an 
 orphan and taken by white people and raised in Arkansas, or stayed 
 in Arkansas for a few years and then was taken by them to Texas for 
 a few years. In 1885 she went to the Choctaw Nation and has since 
 remained there. In 1896 she went to Green McCurtin, the principal 
 chief of the Choctaw Nation at Tuskahoma, and asked to be enrolled 
 on the tribal rolls — she, a seven-eighths Choctaw Indian by blood. 
 He cited her to the Choctaw law that required the deposit of $100 
 for herself and $100 for each one of her children as a condition pre- 
 cedent to her enrollment. She was unable to pay the amount and 
 she was denied enrollment. She later went before the commission 
 and asked to be enrolled, and the commission was then proceeding 
 under the act of May 31, 1900, which provided that they should not 
 receive, consider, or make a record of her case unless she had been 
 duly identified and enrolled upon a tribal roU. 
 
 She then, under the act of July 1, 1902, in order that she might get 
 a record of her case made, applied for enrollment as a Mississippi 
 Choctaw and her claim was denied. There is a weU-established 
 principle of equity that governs such a case, namely, "that where an 
 individual in the prosecution of a right does everything which the 
 law requires him to do, and he fails to attain his right by the mis- 
 conduct or neglect of a public officer, the law will protect him." In 
 this case she had done everything that was within her power, an old, 
 ignorant Indian woman, seven-eighths Choctaw blood. She was 
 denied enrollment under a Choctaw law that was invalid. This docu- 
 ment gives her post office address, close to McAlester, Okla., so that 
 no one will have difficulty in locating that Choctaw woman and her 
 children. I invite them to inquire into her case. 
 
 Let us take the next case, on page 441, the case of Victoria Boyd, 
 a Choctaw woman. She also applied to the Choctaw governor for 
 enrollment, and was cited to the Choctaw law requiring the deposit 
 of $100 for herseK and her children as a condition precedent to the 
 consideration of her application. She being just a poor, ignorant 
 Choctaw woman, was unable to comply with the requirements of the 
 law, and she was denied enrollment. When this woman appeared 
 before the commission and asked to be enrolled, here is the notation 
 appearing in the record made by the commission: 
 
 Bv th.e Commissioner: This woman has the looks of being at least one-half breed 
 Indian. 
 
8 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 I have seen that woman. She looks hke a full blood. She is grossly 
 ignorant. She was left an orphan. She does not know how much 
 Indian blood she has, and no one else knows how much blood she 
 has, but one thing is certain, that she has more Indian blood in her 
 veins than two-thirds of the Choctaw Indians enrolled on the tribal 
 roUs. 
 
 Senators, there follows in this document a list of other cases of a 
 similar nature to which I invite your attention. Recently I received 
 about 300 cases from the Creek Nation, and I want to call some of 
 them briefly to your attention. 
 
 The first case is James S. Freeman. Here is what he states: 
 
 That he is a Creek Indian by blood, by birth, an:l by residence; that he is the son 
 of George Freeman, a full-blood Creek Indian, who was a Union soldier in an Indian 
 company and killed during the war; that his mother was a half-breed Indian woman. 
 Creek, who also died during the war and before his father was killed, but had fled 
 to Texas with other Indians, and it was there she died. 
 
 He has lived in the Creek Nation aU his life. There is his picture. 
 [Indicating photograph.] See whether or not he has the appearance ■ 
 of an Indian. 
 
 Here is the case of Bessie Fields. The petitioner states under 
 oath, and it is corroborated by the affidavits of prominent citizens 
 in that country, " that the father of the said Bessie Fields was Mitchell 
 Fields, whose name appears on the approved roU of the Creek Indians 
 by blood, opposite No. 8426 as a full-blood; that the mother of 
 said Bessie Field was Hinty Fields, nee Smith, emoUed on said roll 
 as Hinty Smith, opposite No. 9370, as a full-blood." There is a 
 father and mother both enrolled on the tribal roUs, and here is the 
 full-blood daughter off. [Indicating photograph.] 
 
 The next case appeals to me strongly because if there is a person 
 who should have a right in the Creek Nation it is this old woman. 
 Let me read you what she says. 
 
 Senator Lane. In the Creek Nation ? 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. Yes, sir; this is in the Creek Nation: 
 
 LTzie Adair, n^e Canard, for herself and in behalf of her children hereinafter named, 
 shows : 
 
 That she is about 60 years of age, as near as she knows, and that her residence is on 
 Central Avenue, Okmulgee, Okla.; that her father was Motie Canard, a full-blood 
 Creek Indian, who was at one time chief of the Creek Tribe; that her mother was 
 Louisa Canard, a half-breed Creek Indian; that your petitioner was born in the Creek 
 Nation, and has lived in the Creek Nation most all her life, but did live about between 
 two and three years in Texas, where her husband took her, and where he died, and 
 she immediately came back to the Indian Territory and lived awhile in the Chickasaw 
 Nation, then came back to the Creek Nation, where she was born and had formerly 
 lived, that all of her children were born in the Indian Territory, part in the Creek 
 and the others in the Chickasaw Nation, as she lived a part of the time in each; but 
 that for the last past 20 years she has lived continuously in the Creek Nation. 
 
 She has been living there, and she is not enrolled. Her father 
 must have been a Creek Indian. He was chief of the tribe. Here is 
 her photograph [indicating]. 
 
 The next case is Angeline Morrison, n€e Guince. She states: 
 
 That she is the daughter of Jack Guince and Han-iett Guince, both of whom were 
 full-blood Creek Indians; that they both died prior to final enrollment more than 20 
 years ago; that after their deaths slie lived with a relative, a cousin, Susan Yarges. In 
 fact she raised me, and I took her name and went by the name of Yarges until I was 
 married to Calvin Morrison, with whom I still live. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 9 
 
 She was born in the Creek Nation and has Uved there all her life. 
 See whether or not she looks like an Indian [indicating the photo- 
 graph]. 
 
 The next is the case of Mattie Simpson. She states as follows: 
 
 That she Ls a Creek Indian by bu-th, by blood, by descent, and by residence. 
 
 That she is the daughter of Rutha Simpson, who was the daughter of Silpee, a full- 
 blood Creek Indian woman. 
 
 That her father was Tom Donehue, who was always considered a full blood, but who 
 was thi-ee-fourths Creek Indian. 
 
 That she was born in the ( 'reek Nation, and that except four years that her husband 
 took her out of the Creek Nation she has alway.s li\cd in the Creek Nation. 
 
 She has hved in that country all her life. Here is her photograph 
 [indicating]. 
 
 The next case is that of Annie Kimbrew. She states as follows: 
 
 That she is a Creek Indian by blood, the daughter of Robert Thompson, a full- 
 blood Creek Indian, whose name appears on the approved Creek roll of Creek Indians 
 by blood opposite No. 1633; that her mother, Jemima Thompson, deceased, was also 
 a. Creek Indian by blood, but not of the full blood; that she died prior to the making 
 Of the approved roll by the Dawes Commission. 
 
 That she has one full sister, now Jennie Coleman, like herself not enrolled, for the 
 reason that their men folks all belonged to the "Four Mother's," commonly called 
 the "Snakes" Band of Creeks, and they were not allowed to enroll and the Dawes 
 Commission never came to them. 
 
 This is a photograph of that Indian [indicating]. It is as pretty a 
 specimen of Indian as I ever laid my eyes on. 
 
 Take the case of Wilson Tiger. This is a minor. This affidavit is 
 made by relatives. They state as follows: 
 
 That she is the closest relative to Wilson Tiger, who is an orphan and is 13 years 
 of age; that she is his mother's sister and is the legal guardian for jthe other members 
 of her sister's family, as set out below. 
 
 That the mother of the said Wilson Tiger is Lucinda Tiger, who, like the father, 
 Catchachee Tiger, was a full-blood Creek Indian and belonged to Chitto Harjo's 
 Band of Creeks, commonly called "Snakes." 
 
 There is a list of the enrollment of father and mother and all the 
 brothers, it seems, with the exception of the last one, who is 13 years 
 old. Here are their photographs [indicating]. 
 
 Senators, the claims of nearly 200 cases of that variety were 
 obtained in and around Okmulgee alone in the Greek Nation, and 
 they are scattered throughout that entire nation in the full blood 
 settlements. That is an illustration of what you will find when you 
 come to make an investigation in the Cherokee and Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw and Seminole countries, particularly in the Choctaw and 
 Seminole countries. 
 
 Are you going to close the roUs and pay out the money and leave 
 these Indians in that condition? I submit that that would hardly 
 be fair on the part of a guardian, an administrator of an estate. If 
 that were proposed to a court by a guardian he would be removed 
 instanter. 
 
 I want to state to the committee, so that there may be no mis- 
 understanding of the matter, that I have never prepared a record in 
 one of these cases and filed it with the committee or with the depart- 
 ment that I have not made due service of that record upon the 
 proper officers of the tribe, and so far as I know I have never Imown 
 of their challenging the accuracy of the records in the cases which I 
 submitted to them, and I have submitted to the department and to 
 
10 INDIAK APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 the attorney for the Creek Nation probably 200 or 300 cases'through 
 that country already, and in the Choctaw and Chickasaw^ Nations 
 the claims of about 2,000 Indians not enrolled. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. I would like to ask one question } 
 
 The Chairman. Just one moment. You stated a while ago that 
 you had nothing more to say. Do you want to be heard when Mr. 
 Ballinger concludes ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. No, sir; but I desire to refer to the statement that 
 he had served these copies on representatives of the tribe, and I want 
 to ask him if he had ever served anythiug at any time on me as a 
 representative of the Cherokees. ., t ^ • i 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. If you had contented yourself until I finish my 
 statement your interruption would have been rendered unnecessary.. 
 I said I had made service in every single case that I have presented 
 to the committees of Congress or the department or the tribal 
 attorney. 
 
 Now, Senators, I have not presented the Cherokee cases up to thb 
 present time to the department, although I am advised that th'cre 
 are in my office in Muskogee several hundred cases of full-blood 
 Indians in the Cherokee Nation that will be on here within the next 
 few weeks, and I will then make due service upon the department, 
 and any person that the department will designate for the Cherokee 
 Nation!^ as that has passed out of existence, and if Mr. Hastings de- 
 sires service upon himself I will make it upon him as a Congressman. 
 
 These are matters. Senators, that I want fair play in. I want 
 everybody to know the facts. If I make a misstatement here I want 
 some one to come before your committee and correct it, because I do 
 not want to do. an injustice either to the tribes or to the claimants. 
 I want the facts presented. 
 
 Now, you have been told repeatedly during the course of this 
 hearing that all the persons whose claims have been inquired into 
 by the departmental officers and found to have merit have been en- 
 rolled. The representative of the department is present, and I desire 
 to ask him, Mr. Meritt, if there has ever been an investigation by the 
 department since the Secretary's report of April 22, 1912, was sub- 
 mitted ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I believe that the cases that have been filed by Mr. 
 Ballinger in the office have been referred to the Superintendent of 
 the Five Civilized Tribes for investigation and report. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I am not referring to those I have filed within the 
 last year, but the last official investigation made into this matter by 
 an officer of your department was by Mr. Pollock, in 1910; is that 
 correct ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is my understanding. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. That is what I am getting at. Now, Senators, 
 this report of the department is dated AprU 22, 1912, and wiU be 
 found in Senate Document 1139, Sixty-second Congress, third 
 session, commencing on page 2. The department says: 
 
 A large part of the field work of investigating cases of this class has been accomplished 
 by representatives of this department since March 4, 1907, although there are some 
 cases yet to be inquired into. The fruit of this field work to date is embodied in two 
 lists heretofore forwarded to Congress. The first was transmitted to the chairman ot 
 the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs by letter of February 12, 1910, copy of which 
 was furnished the chairman of the House Committee on Indian Affairs by letter of 
 February 23, 1910. A copy of the letter of February 12, 1910, appears on page 477 of 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 11 
 
 the printed report of "Hearings before the Committee on Indian Affairs, House of 
 Representatives, Sixty-first Congress, second session, on H. R. 19279, H. R. 19552, 
 and H. R. 22830," and the list referred to is commented npon in the last paragraph of 
 page 279 of that report, which shows that it was not intended to convey the impression 
 that a final conclusion had been reached as to the merits of these cases. It contains, 
 exclusive of duplications, 729 names, some of which, however, are not within the 
 noncompetent class. 
 
 That list will be found in this report, in this same document, 
 commencing on page 219, and extending to page 282, in which there 
 is set out an abstract of the facts in each case, showing a prima facie 
 right on the part of the claimants. Now, Senators, none of the 
 persons included in that list, except the noncompetent class, number- 
 mg about 50, for whom no application was made has been enrolled, 
 • not one of them, and those facts have been here before Congress for 
 five .years. 
 
 Now let us go to the next list (p. 12). The Secretary states: 
 
 The second list, consisting of several parts, was transmitted to you by my letter of 
 February 19, 1912, wherein I stated that the persons therein named, 537 in all, appar- 
 ently have qualifications which entitle them to enrollment in one or another of the 
 Five Civilized Tribes, but whose names do not appear upon the final rolls. The rights 
 of these persons were thoroughly looked into, and the examination as to them may be 
 said to be complete, although, as indicated above, the investigation did not extend 
 to all persons similarly situated. 
 
 Note this — 
 
 Although as indicated above, the investigation did not extend to all persons simi- 
 larly situated. 
 
 That investigation and report was only partial. The investigation 
 ran to only a part of the claimants of that class and recites on the face 
 of the report that such are the facts. 
 
 Now, you have been told by the former attorney of the Cherokee 
 Nation and the Congressman-elect representing the Cherokee Nation, 
 Mr. Hastings, that so far as he knows there are no full-blood Indians 
 or other Indians in the Cherokee Nation who are entitled to enroll- 
 ment. I read the next sentence in this report: 
 
 This investigation was completed as to the Seminoles and Creeks. It also covered 
 all people reported in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations and all in the Cherokee 
 except about three counties, Delaware, Craig, and Maise, where a large number of 
 full bloods live. 
 
 Those are the fuU-blood settlements in the Cherokee Nation, are 
 they not, Mr. Hastings ? 
 
 Mr. Hastings. I know of but few full bloods who live in Craig 
 County. There are some in Maise County and in Delaware County. 
 
 Mr. Ballingee. There was no investigation in those counties. 
 Now what did the department report to you less than three years 
 ago, and I read from the same report. The department recommended 
 that if any action was taken looking toward the preparation of addi- 
 tional and supplemental rolls that the following cases be inquired 
 into, and you will find on page 12 of the report this classification: 
 
 One, noncompetent case, one person to a case— 800. A part of those have been 
 enrolled; 300 of them. 
 Delinquent cases, due to administrative delay, 52. 
 
 They have all been taken care of in the act last year. 
 
 Mississippi Choctaw cases— families, 10. 
 
 Jurisdictional and imperfectly adjudicated cases, averaging perhaps three persons 
 to a case, 1,724. 
 
12 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILLi 
 
 None of these have been investigated or enrolled. 
 There are over 5,000 in that class alone. 
 
 Memorandum cases, 140. 
 
 One thousand people in that class alone. 
 
 They teU you, or it has been strongly intimated, if not boldly 
 asserted, that the department does not know what cases should be 
 further considered and what cases should not be further reconsidered. 
 If that be true how does it happen that they tell you with absolute 
 certainty the number — 1,724 imperfectly adjudicated c^ses in one 
 class, and the exact number in each of the other classes. 
 
 The facts with reference to these cases are known in the department. 
 There is no controversy about that. Those are part of the cases that 
 were rubber-stamped in the period from February 19, to March 4, 
 1907, rejected without consideration in the secretary's office, and the 
 readjudication of those cases. Senators, is rendered absolutely 
 necessary in common fairness, because of this fact, and this fact is 
 shown in the records contained in that document 
 
 In December, 1906, 1 personally prosecuted charges against William 
 O. BeaU, then chief clerk of the Dawes Commission. One of the 
 charges that I prosecuted — and that was sustained by Mr. Folk, 
 former Civil Service Commissioner — was that when he fixed up the 
 records in those cases and transmitted them to the department he 
 withheld a part of the salient facts shown by the records, and upon 
 that incomplete record transmitted to the department the action of 
 the department had previously been taken in a number of cases. 
 
 This man BeaU was the same gentleman who briefed cases against 
 the applicants in the office of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish for 
 hire and pay, and then returned to the office of the commission and, 
 as Mr. Folk says, passed upon those cases; and for that Mr. Folk 
 recommended that he be no longer permitted to touch a case or issue 
 instructions to anyone in the commission relative thereto, and said 
 that he doubted whether BeaU realized the grave improprieties of 
 which he had been guUty. 
 
 Now, does the record of the commission further show the names of 
 the chUdren of the em-oUed parents who are entitled to enrollment? 
 
 The card index shows that. I can take — and what I can do, any 
 other man of industry and inteUigence can do — I can go to those card^ 
 indexes and from them alone select the great majority of the meri- 
 torious cases — and I can do that in 30 days, with a stenographer or 
 two who wUl stay with me — and it can be done by the officials of 
 the department. That wUl show the names of the children of the 
 enroUed parents who are-enroUed. That wiU show the persons whose 
 brothers and sisters have been enroUed and who occupy identicaUy 
 the same status as the enrolled brother and sister. 
 
 There is no rattlesnake nest proposition in that, Senators. AU it 
 requires is honesty, integrity, industry, and a moderate amount of 
 inteUigence, and any man who possesses those qualifications can 
 straighten up these roUs and do justice to these Indians and protect 
 the United States from claims for miUions of dollars in liabUities. 
 
 Now, Senators, I believe that each and every gentleman who has 
 appeared before this committee from Oklahoma has referred to the 
 ^'reopening of the roUs." That, in my opinion, is done for a purpose. 
 When you talk about reopening a roll it carries the fear of God with it, 
 
IHTDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 13 
 
 to the enrolled Indians. The people of that country remember how 
 the court judgQients of the United States courts were reopened by 
 the citizenship court; how the rights of those claimants were emascu- 
 lated by that court — that 3-legged tribunal. So when you talk 
 about reopening the rolls they understand that to mean that you are 
 going back to inquire into their rights, and that would mean a stop 
 further — the taking of their allotments away from them. Of course, 
 they rise in a body against such a proposition, but no man has ever 
 asked you to reopen a roll. All that you have been asked to do is 
 to prepare a supplemental list of those who are entitled to enrollment 
 and then pay them in money the share to which they are equitably 
 entitled. That would not disturb conditions in Oldahoma. That 
 would not unsettle land titles in Oklahoma. Things wUl move filong 
 as smoothly if you do that as if you withheld any relief from these 
 full-blood Indians. 
 
 It has been stated to your committee that this is not a political 
 question in Oklahoma. No; it is not. You have been told that 
 there is little sentiment in Oklahoma in favor of taking care of these 
 people. That is true. Why? The banker in Oklahoma wants his 
 mortgage paid. The merchant in Oklahoma wants h^ account with 
 the enrolled Indians paid. The business community wants the money, 
 and it is Indian money. If it is put into circulation it wdl make good 
 times. That is why there is little sentiment in Oklahoma in favor 
 of taking care of these people. The only person who asks that they 
 be taken care of is the Indian who is down there waiting for the Gov- 
 • ernment to redeem its promise. 
 
 Now, Senators, it was stated here Saturday that the provision for 
 the creation of this citizenship court was included in the agreement 
 when signed by the representatives of the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 Nations in 1902. A mere examination of the record discloses that 
 that is an error. That provision was inserted in that bill in this com- 
 mittee — that is, I mean the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. 
 That is the way it got in there, and so far as there is any record obtain- 
 able, it was inserted upon an ex parte presentation. The claimants 
 were not heard. 
 
 I want to call your attention, gentlemen, to a unique provision of 
 that law. There was an agreement to be entered into between the 
 Indians and the Government, and the provision was that after it had 
 been ratified by the Congress of the United States it should be ratified 
 by the Indians at an election held for that purpose. Sections 31, 32, 
 and 33 were the sections included in that agreement for the creation 
 of this tribunal. Note the language contained in the proviso to sec- 
 tion 30: 
 
 That paragraphs 31, 32, and 33 herein shall go into effect immediately after the 
 passage of this act by Congress. 
 
 The Indians were not given an opportunity to pass upon that citi- 
 zenship court provision. That was made mandatory by the law of 
 Congress. The Indian was not afforded an opportunity to say whether 
 or not the persons who had received judgments in the United States. 
 courts were Indians. That was taken away from them, and by the' 
 exercise of that arbitrary power the court was created and directed tO' 
 proceed to the determination of those two questions of law which I 
 have previously stated and which if determined adversely to the rul- 
 
14 INDIAN" APPE.OPKIATION BILL. 
 
 ings of the United States courts all the judgments of the United States 
 courts fell. 
 
 I stated to this committee in my opening argument that the United 
 States Supreme Court had passed upon, directly, one of the questions 
 presented to this citizenship com-t and indirectly upon the other ques- 
 tion. That was assailed by the attorney for the Chickasaw Nation. 
 Senators, I seldom make a statement that I am unable to make good 
 on, and I want to read from the decision of the Supreme Court oi the 
 United States in the case of Stevens v. The Cherokee Nation (174 
 U. S., p. 477). The court says: 
 
 As to the first of these objections, conceding the constitutionality of the legislation , 
 otherwise, we need spend no time upon it, as it is firmly established that Congress 
 may provide for the review of the action of commissions and boards created by it 
 exercising only quasi-judicial powers by the transfer of their proceedings and deci- 
 sions, denominated appeals for want of a better term, to judicial tribunals for exami- 
 nation and determination de novo. 
 
 That was one of the questions passed upon by the citizenship court 
 three years after the Supreme Court of the United States had rendered 
 its opinion. The citizenship court held that on appeal from the action 
 of the commission the United States courts were limited to the record 
 transmitted and could not extend to a trial de novo. The United 
 States Supreme Court held that they could try the cases de novo. 
 Upon the other question as to the necessity of making service in a 
 Choctaw case upon both the Choctaw Nation and the Chickusaw 
 Nation, the court indirectly passed upon that question in this case. 
 
 I repeat, therefore, my original assertion. 
 
 You were told by Mr. Cornish that the reason the citizenship court 
 refused to permit a party plaintiff who had taken his case into the 
 citizenship court the right to dismiss his case upon motion was 
 because the law automatically took the case into the citizenship 
 court, and the court could not dismiss it. With the permission of 
 the committee I will ask Mr. Cornish if that was his statement. 
 
 Mr. CoExisH. Go ahead, Mr. BaUinger, and make any statement 
 that you see fit to make. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I want to be fair about these matters, Senators. 
 It is only a question of fact and of law, and you are sitting in a quasi- 
 judicial capacity, and I want to be fair with all concerned. I will 
 not knowingly do either friend or enemy an injustice. 
 
 Let me read you the provision of the law relative to the taking of 
 these cases into the citizenship court. It is found in section 31 of 
 the act of July 1, 1902. Provision is first made for the determina- 
 tion of the test case. If that case was decided adversely to the judg- 
 ment of the United States court, then the law provided: ' , 
 
 In the event said citizenship judgments or decisions are annulled or vacated in 
 the test suit hereinbefore authorized, because of either or both of the irregularities 
 claimed and insisted upon by such nation, as aforesaid, then the files, papers, and 
 proceedings in any citizenship case in which the judgment or decision is so annulled 
 or vacated shall, upon written application therefor made within 90 days thereafter 
 by any party thereto who is thus deprived of a favorable judgment upon his claim of 
 citizenship, be transferred and certified to said citizenship court by the court having 
 custody and control of such files. 
 
 Gentlemen, when a man's judgment obtained in the United States 
 court was struck down by the decree of the citizenship court in the 
 test case, he then had to file his petition in the citizenship court to 
 take the case up to the citizenship court, and after he took his case 
 
INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 15 
 
 into the citizenship court, and after, in many instances, he foimd 
 out the nature of the tribunal before whom his case was pending, he 
 tried to dismiss it as the record show and the court denied him that 
 right. That is an inherent right in a plaintiff. Until there is a 
 counter claim asserted the plaintiff has an absolute right to dismiss 
 his suit, but this citizenship court denied him that right and held 
 him in there until they could brand him. 
 
 You were told on Saturday by Mr. Cornish that there were great 
 frauds perpetrated in the United States courts. He conceded that 
 they had a remedy by going into the United States courts and insti- 
 tuting a proceeding to purge any judgment improperly obtamed, but 
 he admitted they did not seek that remedy. So this citizenship 
 coiu-t was created, and he told you that these judgments, or at least 
 a great many of them, had been obtained solely upon perjured 
 evidence — upon affidavits and depositions taken, with seals affixed 
 thereto, that had been made to order. He mentioned in connection 
 with the cases cited, the case of the Kolb family. That is a case in 
 which I personally happen to have examined the records, and I know 
 something of the facts. 
 
 You will remember that at this time they had unlimited funds at 
 their disposal; blanket appropriations made by the Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Nations. In this Cobb case Cobb prosecuted the case in 
 the United States court and through the citizenship court largely for 
 the protection of his dead brother's orphan children. When his case 
 was in the citizenship court, he gave notice that he was going to a 
 point in Mississpipi or Alabama, to take his testimony. He was a man 
 m very moderate circumstances. He employed an attorney in Okla- 
 homa, a well-known attorney, who went with him. On the night 
 before the day they were to commence the taking of the testimony in 
 Mississippi or Alabama, Mr. Cornish and Judge Foote appeared. I am 
 not certain that the record discloses this fact, but I thmk the record 
 will disclose that they tried to make this fact of record. The wit- 
 nesses of this man Cobb were taken into a room and examined by 
 Judge Foote privately, and that night Mr. Cornish and Judge Foote 
 took the next train back to Oklahoma and left that man suspended 
 there with his witnesses. At a later date the attorneys for the tribes 
 served notice on Cobb that they were going to take their testimony 
 in Mississippi or Alabama on a day certain, and he was then without 
 fimds'with which to defray the costs, and it is my recollection, and I 
 am reasonably certain my recollection does not fail me, that the tes- 
 timony taken there for the tribes was ex parte testimony. 
 
 Senators, those claimants were denied. Now what happened? 
 There was a number of other claimants, claiming through the same 
 common ancestor, that were included in what is known as the case of 
 Samuel B. Gee et al., a Mississippi Choctaw case. They were living 
 over in Mississippi. They filed their case before the United States 
 Commission and it was considered and came to the Indian Office and 
 the Indian Office dhected their enrollment. There was a large 
 number of claimants in the case. The case went to the Department 
 of the Interior and the Department of the Interior affirmed the action 
 of the commissioner's office. The attorneys, and when I say "they" 
 I mean the attorneys for the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, then 
 filed a motion for rehearing, setting up as basis for the motion the 
 record in the citizenship court in the Cobb case, and brought up only 
 
16 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 a part of that record, and upon that record, that ex parte record in 
 the citizenship court, the claimants in the Samuel B. Gee case were 
 denied by the Department of the. Interior during the closing hours 
 of the enrollment work. These poor people, who obtained their 
 judgments in the United States courts, were forced to go from Maine 
 to California, practically, to defend their rights. Notice was given 
 in distant States that the testimony would be taken there. The 
 nations had unlimited funds; the claimants were destitute. The 
 only thing they had in the world was their allotments. The claim- 
 ants had spent their aU in improving their allotments, and their right 
 to an allotment had then been assailed and a judgment entered 
 striking down the decree under which they had been enrolled. They 
 could not borrow a dollar on their claims. 
 
 If Mr. Murray, or any other man, desires to erect a monum-ent to 
 that citizenship court, he is welcome to do so ; but of all the tribunals 
 that history recalls it was the most unique. The House Committee 
 that investigated the contract in 1910 (H. Rept. No. 2273, 61st Cong., 
 3d sess., p. 10), says'with reference to the creation of this court: 
 
 The law creating this court is without legislative parallel. The manner of its enact- 
 ment was extraordinary and the authority which it conferred upon the court it created 
 is without precedent in American jurisprudence. 
 
 And, gentlemen, that language hardly describes it. 
 
 It was charged here the other day that in these citizenship court 
 cases there were a few witnesses that appeared in many cases. Sena- 
 tors, that is true that in many cases one person appeared and testified. 
 Remember that they were taking testimony in 1903 and 1904 about 
 what had occurred in 1830, and there were comparatively few mem- 
 bers of that tribe who were alive and who knew the facts. Only the 
 very oldest members could have had any knowledge of the facts, and 
 so it happened that in many of these cases the old Indian, the old 
 negro who was familiar with the facts, was brought in and testified as 
 a witness. Objection ought not be asserted by counsel for the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations because the testimony of some old 
 negroes was admitted in evidence. Those judgments were set aside 
 in the citizenship coiu't in many instances upon the testimony of 
 negroes in Virginia, Kentucky, North and South CaroUna and else- 
 where produced by Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish. 
 
 It was stated by Mr. Murray that Judge Townsend, judge in the 
 southern district of Indian Territory, had frequently — I will not say 
 that he said "frequently," but in certain instances had set aside the 
 finding of the master of his court holding the claimants not entitled 
 to enrollment. I do not think Mr. Murray was an attorney at that 
 time. He must have made that statement upon representations 
 made to him by others, because I know that Mr. Murray would not 
 knowingly make a misrepresentation. But that statement, I think, 
 is clear error. I personally, in 1910, examined the judgments in 
 nearly a,ll these cases, and I found cases in which Judge Townsend 
 had denied the appUcant where the master had recommended it, but 
 in_ no instance did I find where the master had recommended the 
 rejection of the claim that Judge Townsend had set the report aside 
 and enrolled the claimant. Judge Townsend was for a number of 
 years a Member of Congress from Colorado; he was a distinguished 
 lawyer in Colorado and I have never heard a man assert that he 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 17 
 
 ever acted other than honorably while on or off the bench. He con- 
 tinued on the bench from 1897, when he was appointed, until the 
 Territorial form of Government passed out of existence and the State 
 of Oklahoma came into being. The same was true of Hon. W. H. H. 
 Clayton, who was judge in the central district. He was u bitter 
 partisan, but a fearless, honorable man and an able lawyer, and a 
 man who never permitted his partisanship to enter into a case in 
 his court. His best friends were Democrats. Those were the two 
 men, Senators, who entered the judgments in these cases in the United 
 States courts, and I do not believe that any man could truthfully — 
 I know he could not truthfully, and I do not believe he would come 
 before this committee and say that if he had gone before either one 
 of those judges and shown any fraud in any case that those judges, 
 upon their own initiative, would not have purged the judgments 
 of the fraud. 
 
 One statement was made by Mr. Cornish that he did go into these 
 Unuou States courts and expunge the names of 240 persons from 
 tho^e jud'-^monts tiaat had been bodily interpolated into the judg- 
 niiuits. Ji he did not so state the inference was that the names were 
 actually fraudulently included in the judgments. He did do just as he 
 said tio did, but tlie facts were not as he represented them. The facts 
 were these: Upon the appeal from the commission to the United 
 States court and in that rush period in 1896 it sometimes happened 
 that all the members of the families were not included in the cases. 
 
 Senator Owen. Do you call 1896 tlie rush period ? 
 
 Mr. Ballixger. I am spealdng of the proceedings under the act 
 of June 10, 1896, when the commission had two minutes in wliich to 
 consider the application v>-hen presented. I consider that a rush 
 period. Senator. 
 
 When the case went into the United States court the testimony taken 
 disck)sed other members of the family entitled to onroJiment. The 
 names of all found entitled to enrolhnent were included in the judg- 
 ments, including the names of those who had not been before the 
 commission. There were 240 such names. Now, that was a legal 
 defect as to the 240. They were not fraudulently there; they were 
 illegally there, because of that legal defect, and when Mr. Cornish 
 went into the courts, made known the facts, and moved to strike 
 them out, in every single instance the judges said, "They are not 
 legally there," and'struck the names from the judgment. 
 
 Senator Thompson. You would not contend they could do other- 
 wise ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. No; they did absolutely right, and it was fortu- 
 nate for these people they did strike their names from the judgments, 
 because many of them turned right around and went before the com- 
 mission and were enrolled. If they had retained their names in the 
 judgments they would not have been enrolled, because they would 
 have gone to that citizenship court and have been denied, with the 
 rest of the cases. It was the greatest act of kindness that ever was 
 performed unwittirgly bv Marsfield, McMurray, and Cornish. 
 
 It was stated here by Mr. Murray that an ex-Senator published in 
 his paper a charge that that court was corrupt and that ex-Senator 
 had been convicted of criminal libel. I happen to know something 
 of the facts in that case, and I have that record before me. Without 
 
 828.33 — VOL 2 — 15 2 
 
18 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 mentioning names I want to say that he omitted to state to the 
 committee that the case was appealed to the supreme court of the 
 State and there the judgment of conviction was reversed and the 
 case was remanded and dismissed at the request of the judge who 
 claimed he had been libeled, and it was a matter of newspajper 
 account printed in the Washington papers, and elsewhere, that 
 shortly thereafter that judge tried to commit suicide. 
 
 Mr. Carter, during the course of his remarks the other day, made 
 some statements that I feel sure he would not have made had he 
 examined the certification that I put into the record. He made his 
 statement without an examination of it, and stated to the committee 
 that he knew of his own personal knowledge that two of these persons 
 had been enrolled. I merely want to call his attentioii and the 
 attention of the committee to the fact that this certification shows 
 that Shimoheche Cutchontubbee was on the final roll. No. 9793, and, 
 as I stated, Mary Sealy was on the roll. The certification itseK 
 shows those two persons are on the roll, but the others are not on 
 the blood roll, and it was to exclude their enrollment as Indians that 
 the case was held until a law was passed excluding thena. 
 
 Mr. Carter. You did not state that the other day, did you ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I did; I put it in the record. 
 
 Mr. Carter. But you did not state it to the committee ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I read this exactly as it is to the conlmittee, so 
 there could not have been a mistake. 
 
 I do not believe I care to take up any more of your time. Senators, 
 I want to thank you for the consideration you have given this matter 
 and ask you to do that which is within your power to protect these 
 people, if they are entitled to it. I ask nothing from you that I would 
 not ask of a court. If in justice they are entitled to it, then in the 
 name of justice give them rehef; but in any event provide some 
 method by which their cases can be inquired into. It has been sug- 
 gested by all that if there are claimants entitled to enrollment they 
 ought to be enrolled, and I want to suggest, and I merely make this 
 as a suggestion in accordance with the statements of the Oklahoma' 
 members, that if you will adopt something along these lines you will 
 find out the facts: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to, as early as 
 practicable, investigate the claims of all persons equitably entitled to enrollment as 
 citizens of either of the Five Civilized Tribes and not heretofore enrolled, and report 
 to Congress the names of any such persons that may be found by him to be so entitled, 
 and to defray the expenses of such investigation the sum of $25,000, or so much thereof 
 as may be necessary, is hereby appropriated to be immediately available. 
 
 No one would be enrolled under the provision. You will give the 
 department a fund and authority to make the investigation. The 
 report when submitted to you will show the facts, and then you can 
 enroll those entitled to enrollment. But as it stands to-day the 
 Secretary has no funds with which to make the investigation, and 
 that is why these matters have stood here for years without you 
 being furnished definite information. We would prefer to have 
 an act that would direct him to enroU those persons that he finds 
 are lawfully entitled to enrollment, but if we can not get anything 
 better, let us just get the facts for your information before you 
 disburse these funds. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 19 
 
 I thank you. 
 
 Senator dwEN. The chief of the Creek Nation happens to be present 
 this morning, and I should like to ask him the question whether he 
 himself knows of any person who ought to be on the Creek rolls who 
 has not been enrolled ? 
 
 The Chairman. What is your name? 
 
 STATEMENT OF MOTEY TIGEE (TESTIFYING THROUGH AN 
 
 INTEEPEETER). 
 
 (The question propounded by Senator Owen was repeated to the 
 witness by interpreter.) 
 
 MoTEY TiGEii. I know of none. 
 
 Senator Owen. That is all I want to ask him. 
 
 Mr. Carter. I have an aflidavit and a letter which I should hke to 
 read to the committee. They are very short. They touch the ques- 
 tion that was asked Mr. Ballinger the other day about representing 
 Mrs. Virginia Savage. 
 
 The Chaiejian. Duruag Mi-. BaUinger's statement one of the gentle- 
 men, I think Mr. Hastings, wished to ask a question. 
 
 Mr. Hastings. You permitted me to ask it. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Mr. Ballinger, repl3nng to a request by Senator Lane, 
 stated thai he represented Mrs. Savage. I was surprised to hear this 
 statement. In 1908, when I first came to Congress, he made that 
 statement, and again in 1910. Afterwards, without solicitation from 
 me, there came from Mrs. Savage, who is a relative of mine, an affi- 
 davit denying that Mr. Ballinger had ever represented her. I will 
 read that affidavit, which is as follows : 
 
 AFFIDAVIT. 
 
 State of Colorado, County of Pueblo, ss: 
 
 I, Virginia Sa^■;1ge, of lawful age, being first duly s-worn, on oath state that Fred V. 
 Kinkade, of Ardniore, Okla., is the sole and only attorney that has any authority, either 
 from myself or my children, to represent us in the matter of our enrollment as citizens 
 of the Chickasaw Nation, and upon which matter he has been at work for more than 
 three years last past; that neither myself or any member of my family have ever, at 
 any time, emjjloyed the firm of BalUnger & Lee, composed of Mr. Webster Ballinger, 
 of Washington, D. C, and Mr. Albert J. Lee, of Ardmore, Okla., to represent us in 
 any capacity. 
 
 And I further state that said Fred V. Kinkade, of Ardmore, Okla., is now and has 
 been since August 6, 1907, the sole and only attorney having any authority whatever 
 from me' or any of my family to represent me or them; that his services so far have 
 been satisfactory; that he has power of attorney, duly executed, to employ additional 
 counsel if by him deemed necessary or advisable. 
 
 Deponent further states under oath that so far as she is advised that the said firm of 
 Ballinger & Lee, nor Mr. Webster Ballinger, nor Mr. Albert J. Lee, are not now and 
 have never been employed to represent her or any member of her family in any 
 matter, and when they presume to do so it is done without any authority whatever 
 from her or her family. 
 
 Further deponent saith not. 
 
 Virginia Savage, Deponent. 
 
 Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 15th day of November, A. D., 1910. 
 [seal.] Jacob Jewell, Notary Public 
 
 (My commission expires July 20, 1912.) 
 
 The reason I present that is, gentlemen, that the time might come 
 when Mrs. Savage would be enrolled. I wUl be frank with the com- 
 mittee and state that I have always thought there was merit in the 
 
20 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Savage case. She is legally excluded from the rolls by the law, because 
 she was not on the reservation and had not lived there since she was 
 10 or 12 years old, but she was excluded under a strict construction 
 of the law requiring residence. Equitably there seems to me some 
 merit in her case. She is a Chickasaw Indian, about one-sixteenth 
 blood, I should say, and born in the Indian Territory, but moved 
 away from there when she was young. The reason, as I say, that I 
 have presented this afhdavit is, if Mrs. Savage ever does get on the 
 roll, and I have tried to have her placed on the roll, I do not want her 
 annoyed by people who did not represent her, and I do not want part 
 of her money taken away from her. 
 
 The reason I make this statement is on account of a letter I have 
 just received from Mr. Nichols, of Oklahoma, who was placed on the 
 roUs by the last Indian appropriation act, and in regard to whom 
 Mr. Webster BaUinger appeared before this committee and tried to 
 persuade the committee not to enroll. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. What is the date of that letter? 
 
 Mr. Carter. August 26, 1914. I have one received from him day 
 before yesterday. The following is what he says under date of 
 August 26 : 
 
 Comanche, Okla., August 26, 1914. 
 Hon. C. D. Carter. 
 
 Dear Friend: I -mito you in regard to what Mr. Ballintjer is wanting us people, 
 the Nicho's faiiily, to do. He is trying now to get each one to sign direct contracts 
 wi h him for 12j per cent of the entire value of property to be recovered. He is 
 trying to graft us out of our money. We never did employ Mr. Ballinger in our case 
 a^ an atto^-ney. We have no contract with him, either verbal or written. We have 
 no atto-nev employed now, except Walter S. Field. 
 
 We never will sign any such contracts. Anytiiing you can do for us in this matter 
 wi'l ' e g~eatlv appreciated. 
 
 I fer" Mr. Ballinger will try to delay our payments. 
 Yours, truly, 
 
 James B. Nichols. 
 
 Those payments were delayed to Mr. Nichols. He has not got aU 
 his money yet. The appropriation bill placing these people on the 
 ro'ls was passed August 1, 1914, and this letter was written to me by 
 Mr. Nichols himself of date August 26, 1914, which shows that Mr. 
 Billinger was pretty active with Mr. Nichols after he was placed on 
 the ro.i.l, after he had appeared here and asked that his name be not 
 placed on the rolls. 
 
 I remember definitely that statement of Mr. Ballinger, and Senator 
 Clapp will remember it. He and I spoke about it when Mr. Ballinger 
 made it, but I have looked through the record and I see that it has 
 been eliminated from the record. 
 
 In case there might be any further dispute I wired yesterday to 
 Mr. Kinkade. j J 
 
 Ihe Chairman. Who is he? 
 
 Mr. Carter. He is the fellow Mrs. Savage speaks of as being her 
 attorney. He says [reading] : 
 
 Ti plying to your telegram this date i av.- th<_' honor to advise Webster Ballinger 
 doi.s ^ _ow r.?present "\ irginia Sa, aL.',e iun , i.c r. n under a contract from me for a 
 dnisi,n ot fees. He did not in lOiO, an- . i rnished you and department with her 
 atfica It. 
 
 Fred V. Kinkade. 
 
 Mr. Baltingee. He says I represent them "now," does he not 
 Mr. Carter ? ' 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 21 
 
 Mr. Carter. Perhaps he does. He says: "Replying to your tele- 
 gram this date I have the honor to advise that Webster Ballinger 
 does now represent 'S'irginia Savage and children." Perhaps you 
 are correct about that. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I have their letters here, Mr. Carter. 
 
 Mr. Carter. If I have done an injustice I regret it. I had not 
 read the telegram closely before presenting it. Mr. Ballinger has just 
 told you that no fees could be collected if these people were placed 
 on the roll under that present law. If he behoves that, why did he 
 send this letter to Mr. Nichols after these other people were placed 
 on the roll August 1, 1910, and in 1914? 
 
 Ml-. Ballinger. You have not produced my letter. If you will 
 produce the letter I sent them, I wiU answer your question. 
 
 Mr. Carter. I have produced a letter here in which Mr. Nichols 
 says you have written him. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Field is the attorney mentioned in that 
 communication, is he not ? 
 
 Mr. -Carter. Yes, he is one of them. He is not mentioned in the 
 Virginia Savage matter. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. No, in the Nichols case. We have disposed of the 
 Savage case on your own statement. Mr. Field was the attorney for 
 Mr. Nichols. 
 
 Ml-. Field. You were associated with me, Mr. Ballinger, as attorney 
 for J. B. Nichols and his family ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. In the records compiled in 1910 the case was 
 briefed and my name was signed to it as one of the attorneys. 
 I have consistently for more than eight years represented the Nichols 
 family, urging their enrollment at all times. 
 
 Mr. Carter. If you had a contract with Mr. Field why did you 
 write this letter to ask Mr. Nichols to sign another contract? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I will answer your question frankly. This is all 
 gossip, but I want to make myself perfectly plain — I want to make 
 my position perfectly plain. After those parties were enrolled, I wrote 
 to Jim Nichols and told him that I had never examined his contract 
 with ]\'Ir. Field, which provided for a percentage of the value of an 
 allotment, a small percentage only, and I wrote him and told him it 
 was-my understanding that the percentage we were to receive ran to 
 the entire fund, whatever he got, and not to the mere basis of an 
 allotment. Jim Nichols did not write that letter for that is not in 
 his handwriting. Some person down tiiere wrote that. 
 
 Mr. Carter. That is not Jim Nichols. I think it was a son of Jim 
 Nichols who wrote it. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Yes; a son of Jim Nichols wrote that to you and 
 when that came in you gave me a copy of it. I was in your office 
 and you called my attention to it, and I promptly wrote and sent 
 Nichols a copy of it, and received a letter back apologizing to me for 
 it, and he wrote a letter to the Secretary of the Interior, which is on 
 file there, stating that that communication should not have been sent. 
 
 Mr. Carter. I just got a letter from him day before yesterday, 
 from this same Nichols. I have the letter in my office and I wiU put 
 that letter in the record. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. I do not know who that Nichols is. 
 
 Mr. Carter. This is the one you wrote the letter to. This is 
 James B. Nichols. He is the son of W. B. Nichols. I also received 
 
22 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 a letter this morning from a Mr. Shields, stating that you got part of 
 his money and were trying to get a fee from him. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. You can not produce my letter to him. 
 
 Mr. Carter. I can produce letters these gentlemen wrote saying 
 you wrote them letters. 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Send down and get my original letters to them 
 and see where I have been asking them to sign any contract since the 
 act of August 1, 1914. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Did you not try to get James B. Nichols to sign a 
 contract since that act ? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. No, sir. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Then you say this statement made by Mi'. Nichols is 
 false, by James B. Nichols? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. Absolutely, so far as I am concerned. 
 
 Mr. Carter. Did you try to get John B. Nichols to sign one? 
 
 Mr. Ballinger. No, sir. 
 
 Mr. Carter. I believe he says you v/anted 12^ per cent. I will 
 put those letters in the record. These gentlemen state he dird try 
 
 to do it. 
 
 Ada, Okla., February 1, WV'i. 
 Hon. Chas. D. Cartei!, IJ. C, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 Dear Sir: ii vs!;lf and family wero added to the Choctaw rolls by the act of ( 'oTi<,'ress 
 of August 1, 1914. We had a contract with \Valter S. Fiold, of Wa-;hu!gtOn, li. ','., to 
 pay him 12^ per cent of the amount we receiv._'d in lieu of allotmsnt as a fee in s 'cur- 
 ing our enrollment. Now, in addition to thin, Uallinggr & Lee and .J. E. Arnold have 
 filed claims. I never emiiloyed Ballinger & Lee in my case; have ne^■:.'r mad ; any 
 contract with them in any way or authorized anyone to make a contract for me. 
 Mr. Field told me that he had employed Mr. Ballinger to a -oist him and would settle 
 with him himself, and I objected to this, as I did not want him to r ^iresi'nt me; and 
 as to J. E. Arnold I never even heard of such a man until he fil.'d his claim, and 1 
 am sure he never had anything to do with it. The department is hclding up $833.02 
 out of $2,082.56 due us for attorney's fees, which is more than 40 per cent oi our money. 
 The Secretary certainly wnW not stand for us to be grafted out of our money, but, if it 
 is not asking too much of you, I would appreciate it very much if you would inquire 
 into it. So thanking you in advance for the favor, I am. 
 Yours, very truly, 
 
 John W. B. Nichols. 
 
 Ada, Okla., February 19, 1915. 
 Hon. Charles D. Garter, 
 
 Washington, D. C. 
 
 Dear Sir: While in conversation with Mr. William Nichols, of this city, he informed 
 me that he had had some trouble in getting settlement with the department in matter . 
 of his enrollment. He also informed me that you was kind enough to assist him very 
 materially in this matter, and suggested to me that 1 enlist your aid in the enrollment 
 matter in which I am interested. 
 
 I am administrator for the estate of Eunice and Barney Shields, minoi- fidl bloods, 
 deceased, and as such administrator I signed a contract with Apple & Franklin and 
 Von Weis, of Ardmore, Okla., in which I agreed to give them 20 per cent each, or a 
 total of 40 per cent, to secure the enrollment of these deceased minors. 
 
 Recently I received a communication from Hon. Gabe E. Pirker, of Muskogee, 
 inclosing contracts or blanks, in which two firms of la\Yyejs of M"ashington,T). ■(.'., to 
 wit, Ballinger & Lee and Kappler & MeriUat, were (.'liiiming fees in this case. 
 
 I had never signed a contrai t with these attorneys, and in fuel had never heard of 
 them before, and I am now protesting against the payment of these tees, as I think 40 
 per cent, which I contracted, is ample pay for all ser\i( es rendered in the case. 
 
 I have been reliably informed that some of these cases had as much as 120 per cent 
 fees charges against them, and I do not think that it is right for me to keep still and 
 allow a firm of unscrupulors Uiwyers to rob the estate for ^^ liich 1 am adrainisL-alor. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 23 
 
 I would appreciate it very much if you would inquire into this matter and advise 
 me as to the best method of procedure to secure an early settlement with the depart- 
 ment, as the heirs of these deceased minors need this money very badly and can not 
 understand why I am unable to secure settlement. 
 
 I hope you will not consider that 1 am imposing upon you l)v asking j-on for this 
 assistance, as 1 do it for the reason that through your intimate relations lo' the Indian 
 affairs I feel sure you could render me this service with a greater degree of satisfaction 
 to myself and those with whom I am interested than any other person upon whom I 
 coiud call. 
 
 Thanking you in advance for these favors, I am, 
 \'ery respectfully, 
 
 (Signed) R. E. Brians, Adviinistralor. 
 
 Stuiator Owen. I move, that the committtu' report the Indian ap- 
 propriation bill without further amendment. 
 
 Senator Lane. There were some other matters to be taken up. 
 
 Senator Owen. If there are I will postpone my motion. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You do not mean to deny us a vote on 
 amendments relating to the Choctaw distribution if we want to vote 
 on it? 
 
 Senator Owen. I make this motion for what it iw worth, ex])ect!ng 
 to get a vote on the motion. 
 
 Senator Lane. There were some other matters, Senator. 
 
 Senator Owen. I will withhold this motion if tliere are other 
 matters. 
 
 Senator Lane. There was one other matter brought up a few days 
 ago. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you refer to the Crow matter ? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; and another matter. 
 
 Senator Owen. If we do not report this bill it is not going to be 
 passed this session, I think. 
 
 The Chaikman. Do you want a vote on the Choctaw-Chickasaw 
 matter before we go ahead ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I move as a substitute for the motion made 
 by the Senator from Oklahoma the following: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he hereby is, authorized aud directed to 
 readjudicate those applications for enrollment upon the rolls of the Five Civilized 
 Tribes which were peuding unadjudicated in the department on December 1, 1906, 
 and also those which came to said department between said date and the final closing 
 of the rolls on March 4, 1907, and to add to the appropriate rolls the names of those 
 persons shown to be equitably entitled to such enrollment: Provided, That such 
 readjudication shall be made upon the record as it stood on March 4, 1907: And pro- 
 ■ vided/urther, That upon such enrollment the said Secretary shall pay to each of said 
 enrolled persons, in lieu of an allotment of land, the sum of money directed to be paid 
 to each person enrolled upon said rolls by the act of August 1, 1914. 
 
 I do not care to take the time to argue it. 
 
 Senator Owen. The effect of that is to reopen the rolls, is it not? 
 
 Senator La Follette. No; the effect of it is to have an adjudica- 
 tion on those cases in the records of the Interior Department. That 
 does not mean reopening the roUs or affecting the rolls in any way, 
 excepting to add the names he finds to be on the record in the 
 department equitably entitled to be placed on the rolls. 
 
 Senator Owen. That is what we have always called opening the 
 rolls. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I know you have, and you have frightened 
 a great many people into voting against a fair proposition by using 
 that expression. 
 
24 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Owen. That term has been the accepted term, of opening 
 the rolls. 
 
 Senator La Follette. The members of the committee will under- 
 stand what the meaning of that is. It is plain. 
 
 Senator Owen. That changes the existing law and is open to a 
 point of order. 
 
 The Chairman. Before the vote is taken I want to put in the 
 record communications sent to me and handed to me Saturday and 
 to-day on the subject of' voting in this committee by the members of 
 this committee. They are as follows : 
 
 February 19, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs. 
 
 Dear Sir: I request my vote be recorded on any propositions p.ffecting the Choctaw- 
 Chickasaw per capita in I'avor thereof and against any reopening of tlie citizenship 
 rolls of the Five Civilized Tribes. 
 
 Albert B. Fall. 
 
 United States Senate, 
 Washin'jton, D. C, February 19, 1915. 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs. 
 Dear Sir: I wish my vote recorded against any change in the Choctaw per capita 
 payment and against any reopening of the rolls of citizenship. 
 Yours, respectfully, 
 
 H. L. Myers. 
 Key Pittman. 
 Hobt. L. Owen. 
 J, Hamilton Lewis. 
 Wm. H. Thompson. 
 
 February 20, 1915. 
 Hon, Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. 
 Sir: We, the undersigned members of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, 
 hereby request and authorize you to cast our votes in favor of the immediate and 
 favorable report of H. R. 20150, the Indian appropriation bill. 
 
 H. L. Myers. 
 
 Wm. H. Thompson. 
 
 J. Hamilton Lewis. 
 
 Joe T. PtOBiNSON. 
 
 Albert B. Fall. 
 
 ItoBT. L. Owen. 
 
 The Chairman. I received a letter this morning from Senator 
 Pittman, as follows: 
 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs. 
 My Dear Senator: I conudar it vary important that thy Indian bill be reiiortsd 
 out immadiatsly, and therafora raquebt that my vota be cast in favor of the bill as 
 noi.r amended, and in favor of motion to raport the same to the Sanata with racom- 
 mendation that tame do ]ia-;s. 
 Will you do ma the honor to so cast my vote? 
 Very rebpcctfully. 
 
 Key Pittman 
 February 22, 1915. 
 
 I have a letter from Senator Fall and a proxy from Senators Myers, 
 Thompson, Lewis, and Owen authorizing and requesting me to cast 
 their votes in favor of the immediate and favorable report of the bill. 
 
 Senator Lane. Without any change, as it now stands, of course? 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 25 
 
 The CiiAiiiMAN. The letters speak for themselves. 
 
 Senator Laxe. It must imply that. Then that closes up the bill 
 and tlie discussion. 
 
 The Chairman. Some of the Senators are here to speak for them- 
 selves. 1 want that to go in the record. 
 
 Senator IjAne. I do, too; just as far in the record as we can get it. 
 Ihat means that this closes up the bill; that there can be no further 
 hearing. or any evidence. 
 
 Senator La Follette. No; that is not the motion. 
 
 The Chairman. Along with these letters I want it to go into the 
 record that before this committee on April 23, 1914, the following 
 proceedings were had: 
 
 A motion was made that proxies, when signed and specifying the 
 item should be voted upon, should be recognized, and Senator Lane 
 then made the observation: 
 
 I think that is eminently fair. 
 This appears on page 771, Part IV of hearings of 1914: 
 
 Senator Lane. If they (referring to Senators) are familiar Avith it, but T^'here they 
 have not attended the hearings, I think they ought to give a -trritten authorization. 
 
 The AOte was taken. The chairman stated the question as follo-srs: 
 
 The Chairman. Senators, you have heard the motion that hereafter any Senator 
 who in ;w riting makes a request that his AOte be cast in a particular way upon a par- 
 ticular item that that request shall be granted. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Let us ha-\-e the roll called. 
 
 The question being taken by yeas and nays, resulted yeas 6, nays 3, as follows: 
 
 Yeas: Senators Pittman, Lane, Robinson, Owen, Stone, and Ashurst. Nays: 
 Senators La Follette, Page, and Townsend. 
 
 So the motion was agreed to. 
 
 The Chaiemax All such requests must be in writing and be signed by the particular 
 Senator specifj-ing the item on which he wants his vote cast. 
 
 The Senator from Wisconsin proposes the following amendment: 
 
 Senator Owen. He proposes that as a substitute to the niution I 
 made that the bill be reported immediately without further anuaid- 
 ment. 
 
 The Chairman. Is that your motion, Senator? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes. 
 
 Upon direction of the chairman, the motion proposed by Senator 
 La Follette was read by tiie clerk, as follows: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he hereby is, authorized and directed to 
 readjudir ate those applications for enrollment upon the rolls of the Five Civilized 
 Tnbes which were pending unadjudicated in the department on December 1, 1906, 
 and also those which came to said department between said date and the final closing 
 of the rolls on March 4, 1907, and to add to the appropriate rolls the names of those 
 persons shown to be equitably entitled to such enrollment: Providd, That such 
 readjudication shall be made upon the record as it stood on March 4, 1907, and pro- 
 vided further that upon such enrollment tne said Secretary shall pay to each of said 
 enrolled persons, in lieu of an allotment of land, the sum of money directed to be paid 
 to each person enrolled, upon said rolls, by the act of August 1, 1914. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I ask for a roll call. 
 
 Senator White. This is more or less of a new matter to me, as most 
 of you gentlemen know, as I have not had the advantage of sitting 
 on this committee and hearing much that you have heard. I have 
 listened with a great deal of interest and have been greatly benefited 
 by these arguments and these presentations. The matter before us 
 is a matter involving rather serious consequences. I realize that 
 
26 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 this matter ought to be settled, definitely settled if it can be, yet it 
 ought to be settled right. 
 
 After listening to what I have heard and thinking it over carefully, 
 I can not see what injury or harm can be done by allowing the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior to enroll the names as mentioned in the motion 
 of the Senator from Wisconsin. Therefore, under my conscience, 
 under my oath, I believe it is my duty to vote for that amendment. 
 
 Senator Lane. I should like to say that I have listened to this 
 carefully and the presentation of it is new to me. I have never heard 
 it so fully presented before, but as nearly as I can sec it seems that 
 the Choctaws and Chickasaws hired a very able firm of lawyers, just 
 as able attorneys, I guess, as you will find anjwhere to represent 
 them on the basis of 9 per cent for all the names that they could 
 exclude from the roUs, and that they came into possession of the 
 rolls, and that the Government agents who were sent down there to 
 investigate the matter did not have access to them until after they 
 completed their Avork, and that the Indians finally settled with this 
 firm of attorneys for $750,000, a 4 per cent rate upon the namos that 
 they did exclude, the number of people they kept off. Now, if they 
 were good and honorable attorneys and doing tlieir full duty to their 
 clients they have kept off all the names they could which they thought 
 unjust, and they might even liave gone a little furtlier, if they were 
 of an aggressive nature. If they were very good and philanthropic 
 persons and had a bigness of heart which does not always exist 
 througliout the legal profession, they might have allowed doubtful 
 cases on, but it was not hkely that they would do that, so we can 
 naturally conclude that there were not any more names got on that 
 roU than just those that slipped by these gentlemen inadvertently. 
 Then I go further and it seems to me from what I have heard, there 
 must be some on the rolls which should not be, and at the same time 
 there are some poor, unfortunate folks who are justly entitled to be on 
 that roll that are not upon the roll, and to those I think the Govern- 
 ment owes a debt, and that we, as a committee of the Senate, owe them 
 the duty of seeing that they have justice. If there be but one of 
 them, our duty is just as sacred, and if we do not pay them out of 
 this Chickasaw and Choctaw fund, then it is our duty to appropriate 
 that money from the Treasury of the United States and we as tax- 
 payers, should help to pay our share of the cost. So long as there 
 IS a doubtful list of several hundred, or a few hundred, or even 
 20 or 30 — I do not know the exact number that are wrono;ly ex- 
 cluded I think it is our duty to see that they get a fair trial and a 
 chance to show what their rights are, and I sh^l vote to have that 
 accomplished. 
 
 The Chairman. Are you ready for a vote. Senators ? Call the roll, 
 Mr. Secretary. 
 
 The roll call was begun by the secretary, and in response to the call 
 of the name of Senator Myers — 
 
 The Chairman. He votes "no." 
 
 Senator Lane. Upon this item ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think the Senators should be present. 
 
 Senator Lane. I challenge that vote upon this groimd, that it was 
 my understanding that the proxy was this: That where Senators 
 were thoroughly familiar with the item, or had heard it discussed and 
 had inadvertently gone away and were absent and their names were 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 27 
 
 called upon a roll call, they might leave their vote on the subject. 
 Senator JPittman has not been here. That is the very thing I tried 
 to emphasize last year when I demanded that they give written con- 
 sent and a written proxy that they were familiar with the identical 
 item and during their absence wanted their vote cast, and that they 
 had formed an opinion. Now, you are voting men here who have not 
 listened to those proceedings; who have not been present. I am 
 going to oppose that and I am going upon record in the proceedings 
 of this committee as opposing that kind of voting upon the public 
 funds and the rights and interests of the people who are unable to 
 protect themselves. 
 
 The CuAiEisrAN. Last ycav, when the bill was up. Senators Myers 
 and Stone left their requests in writing asking that their vote on 
 a certain item be cast by the chairman and it was rejected. Senator 
 Stone is not a man of resentment, neither is Senator Myers, but I 
 drew upon myself some criticism because I did not cast their votes. 
 I do not propose that it shall be repeated at this time. I 
 stated that 1 had received a communication in writing from Senator 
 Stone and a communication in writing from Senator Myers requesting 
 that they be counted, and they were not counted, whereupon this 
 brought up the question as to proxies. 
 
 Senator Owen. These were very prolonged hearings and simply 
 wore out the men; kept them away from the committee, and the 
 men who were present ran the committee. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I resent that statement. I am content to 
 have this matter determined as I think it should be determined 
 under the rules of the Senate. The rules of the Senate should 
 
 fovern the committees of the Senate. There is no committee of the 
 enate that I am aware of that permits this sort of proceeding in 
 disposing of important public business. A number of the Senators 
 whose requests have been presented here have not been in attendance 
 upon this hearing at aU. Not for one moment. 
 
 Senator Owex. That is so, of course. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They have not heard one bit of the testi- 
 mony. 
 
 Senator Owen. Of course, that is true. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And I think it is preposterous that they 
 should request to be permitted to vote upon an item upon which 
 they can not have heard any of the evidence, and I challenge the 
 right to record votes by that method, and I think it is a matter that 
 should be carried to the floor of the Senate. 
 
 Senator Owen. This committee passed on that once and passed 
 on it in writing. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do not believe the committee can make 
 such a rule. 
 
 Senator Owen. The committee did make it and it is m force. 
 
 Senator La Follette. The committee made it in reference to 
 another appropriation biU and it did not make it in reference to this. 
 
 Senator Owen. They made it a rule of the committee. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It is not a standing rule of the committee 
 and it is not a proper rule. 
 
 Senator Myers. I wish to say that ever since I have been a mem- 
 ber of this committee I have attended all of its meetings that I 
 
28 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 could. Last year I was not able to be present much of the time 
 and sent in a written proxy because for five weeks, while the com- 
 mittee was sitting, I was in the hospital and could not be here. If 
 I ever criticized the chairman for not casting that proxy I do not 
 remember it, but of course I accept whatever the chairman says 
 about the matter. I have been here aU this year that I could be 
 in justice to other duties which I have, and I am here now to vote 
 according to the best of my understanding. While I have not heard 
 all the proceedings and all the testimony, I have, I think, a pretty 
 fair general understanding of this question and I am here to vote 
 now and do not asl<; any proxy. 
 
 But it does seem to me under the proceedings which the chair- 
 man has read that the committee has adopted a rule that Senators 
 may be voted by proxy, and I am sure that neither Senator La Fol- 
 lette nor any other member of the committee wants to go contrary 
 to rule. It is just a question of wliat the rule means. It seems 
 to me that under that action of the committee last year that the 
 committee has adopted a rule that anyone who is not present may 
 have his vote cast by proxy. As Senator Lane has said, it was 
 not -intended, when he made the motion, to apply to Senators who 
 had not been present at all and had not heard any of the hearings. 
 
 Where these proxies have been presented in writing, I think the 
 committee has settled aU that, and I believe' these proxies should 
 be cast. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I only want to say a word. I think we are drift- 
 ing far afield when we make an argument trying to hold that any man 
 can vote when he is not present in a legislative body. 
 
 Senator Myers. This is not a legislative body. 
 
 Senator Gronna. No country in the world would palliate any such 
 thing as that. Of course, so long as no objection is made it is per- 
 fectly in order for any Senator, any Member of Congress to vote, but 
 if objection is made I have never in my experience, and I have been 
 here some 10 or 11 years, I have never seen even the question raised 
 when objection was made. I notice that all the Senators are here 
 now, and it is really unnecessary to argue it, but I do not wish to 
 agree to the proposition that an absent Member can vote. 
 
 The Chairman. Senator Robinson requested me personally and in 
 writing to cast his vote and he was here all the time. Is there any 
 objection to his voting? 
 
 Senator Lane. I have no objection to Senator Robinson's vote. 
 
 Senator Myers. I have no objection. 
 
 Senator White. I wish to say that I have not heard aU that has 
 been said on the matter of this amendment, but I have heard sub- 
 stantially aU of it. I have certainly heard both sides at considerable 
 length. If I had heard all of it I might possibly vote differently, but 
 I must vote according to my convictions, based upon what I heard. 
 I propose to yield to other Senators the right to vote any way they 
 please, whether by proxy or not. That is a question entirely with 
 the Senator that votes, I think. 
 
 Senator Myers. I suggest that we call the roll of those present, 
 first. 
 
 The Chairman. I will vote Senator Robinson. Is there any objec- 
 tion to Senator Robinson's vote ? 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 29 
 
 Senator La Follette. I ask the record to show what Senators are 
 present and what Senators are voted by proxy. That is all the 
 request I have to make. 
 
 The Chairman. Have you any objection to the proxies voting? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do object to any vothig by proxy. 
 
 Senator Myers. I suggest that the record show- — ^ 
 
 Senator Owen. Let the record show the obj'.x'tion and proceed to 
 the roll-call. 
 
 The question being taken by yeas and nays, resulted — yeas 4, nays 6, 
 as follows: Yeas — Senators Lane, White, La Foilottc, and Gronna, 4. 
 Nays — Myers, Robinson, ToY\aisend, Owen, Pittinan, and Asliurst, 6. 
 
 So the motion was lost. 
 
 Senator h.v Follette. I ask that the record sliow that Senator 
 Robmson was voted by the chairman. 
 
 Senator Owen. The record, also shows that Senator Fall votes no. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Is Senator Fall present '•' 
 
 Senator Owen. He is not, but he has a proxy in writing. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I understand that, but I want the record 
 so to show. 
 
 The Chairman. The chair does not undertake to cast Senator Fall's 
 vote on this. The only one I feel autliorized to vote specifically on 
 this question is Senator Robinson, whicii I Lave done, and the ayes 
 are 4 and the nays 6. 
 
 Senator Owen. I ask a vote on my motion to report this bill. 
 
 Senator Lane. I want to call your attention to the fact that that 
 probably wiU debar any consideration of an item where there is a 
 question involving the expenditure of money which may and by 
 some is thought will give rise to a claim against the Government, 
 and future members of this committee wiU be adjudicating some- 
 thing which ought to be settled now. 
 
 Senator Owen. I shall insist on my motion — that the bill be now 
 reported favorably. 
 
 The ChaiemanI! Are you ready for that question ? 
 
 Senator Lane. We have given the Senator hearings. I have pa- 
 tiently listened to him while he presented his side of these claims; 
 I never cut him oft' at any time. I iiave occupied less pages of this 
 record than he has. Here is an item which is important. Here is 
 an item of expenditure involving $100,000 or 1150,000 a year, and the 
 validity of whicli is in question. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Some item in the bill? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; and I think txie department is perfectly 
 ready and willing to hear it. 
 
 Senator Owen. Why not move to strike it out? 
 
 Senator Lane. It provides for a matter on one of the reserves. 
 The department is ready to be heard, and I tiiink they should be 
 heard in fairness on tnis matter. 
 
 Senator Owen. Then I move that immediately upon the conclu- 
 sion of the hearing they being given two hours to be heard that this 
 bill be reported with such action upon tne item as the committee 
 may see fit to take. . 
 
 Senator Lane, ihat is verv kind oi you, Senator, lliere is another 
 item in the bill, and I will appeal to ; .ur generosity again as to that 
 item, in which some Indians are complaining that an item has been 
 
30 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 put in the bill which they say wiU do them great injustice, if it becomes 
 law, by taking their lands away from them and forcing them to live in 
 swamps and rendering them unable to make a living. They are help- 
 less folks, and we, gentlemen, are their guardians. They ought to be 
 heard at reasonable length. 
 
 Senator Owen. The Senator could make suggestion after suggestion 
 of that kind. 
 
 Senator White. May I inquire what Indian lands they are? 
 
 Senator Lane. They are Minnesota Indians. 
 
 Senator Myers. Is Senator Clapp for or against the item? 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not know. Senator Clapp, I think, introduced 
 the item, and I hope he may be here to hear what they say in relation 
 to it. They asked me to present it, and I am going to do aU I can to 
 have it properly presented to the committee. 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from Oklahoma moves that the bill be 
 reported as it now is, favorably and immediately. Do you wish to 
 discuss that? 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not know what more I can say. I shall have to 
 go on record against it in protest. I think, Senator Owen, you are 
 doing a great injustice even to the department, because they would 
 like to have a hearing on this item. 
 
 Senator Owen. The gentlemen ought to have been here before. It 
 lengthens these hearings beyond the point of prudence. If we do not 
 report this biU we are in danger of not gettmg this matter through 
 Congress at this term. 
 
 Senator La Follette. There may be an opportunity to hear it in 
 the Senate. 
 
 Senator Myers. That is what I am afraid of, I am very sincere in 
 my feeling that this bill is being delayed so long that it will not get 
 through the Senate; that it will loose its right away and fail alto- 
 gether. 
 
 Senator Owen. I insist on my motion. 
 
 The Chairman. The Chair wishes to say first that if anything did 
 happen to the bill and it fails to pass, that at both seasonable and 
 unseasonable hours I have pressed this bill to the point of discourtesy 
 and have done the best I could to get this bill out. Let the clerk 
 ■call the roU. 
 
 Senator Gronna. The item referred to by the Senator from Oregon 
 I beheve is found on page 38 of the bm. I move to strike that out. 
 
 Senator Owen. I second the motion. 
 
 The Chairman. Those in favor of that motion say aye. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I am entitled to be heard. I do not think you 
 will save any time by taking me off of my feet. Mr. Chairman, you 
 will remember that this was the item that was up for consideration 
 about a week ago. It is an item in which Mrs. Grey was interested, 
 and in which Senator Lane is very much interested. Personally I 
 do not know very much about it. 
 
 Senator Owen. What is the item, Senator ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. It is the item: 
 
 For fulfilling treaties with Crows, Montana: For pay of physician, |1,200- and for 
 pay of carpenter, miller, engineer, farmer, and blacksmith (article' ten treaty of 
 May seventh, eighteen hundred and sixty-eight), |3,600; for pay of second blacksmith 
 (article eight, same treaty), $1,200; in all, $6,000. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 31 
 
 Now it is being charged, at least it has been stated, that the 
 Indians' money, which is being collected as rents, are being used 
 contrary to their wishes. I ask that Senator Lane be heard on that, 
 because he knows all about it; he can tell the whole story. 
 
 Senator Fall. I am expecting to make a few remarks in the 
 Senate immediately upon the conclusion of Senator Townsend's 
 speech upon the bUl now pending, and I should like unanimous 
 consent of the committee, if the committee will grant it, that the 
 chairman may cast my vote upon the matter of opening the rolls and 
 upon these per capita payments, in favor of the per capita payments 
 and against opening the rolls. 
 
 The Chairmax. You wish the chairman, or some other member of 
 the committee, to cast your vote on that? 
 
 Senator Myers. I ask that Senator Fall's vote be recorded now. 
 
 Senator LaFollette. I do not object to his vote being recorded 
 on the vote taken before. 
 
 Senator Fall. Do you object. Senator, to 
 
 Senator La Follette. I am objecting to proxy votes generally. 
 
 Senator Fall. I am in favor of reporting the bOl out because I 
 think it is necessary. 
 
 Senator Gronna. May I ask the Senator from New Mexico if he is 
 in favor of reporting it out without any further hearings '? 
 
 Senator Fall. Unless we can conclude these hearings to-day, I am. 
 
 Senator Gronna. You would not object, however, to two or three 
 hours ? 
 
 Mr. Fall. No, I have no objection to that. When the motion 
 comes to report the biU out to-day I am in favor of it and I should 
 like to have my vote so recorded. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I object simply because I want to be con- 
 sistent and object to proxy votes on committees. 
 
 Senator Owen. If a Senator comes in and asks that his vote be 
 recorded you would not call that a proxy, would you ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Not if the vote is being taken. 
 
 Senator Fall. My vote is recorded on this proposition « 
 
 The Chairman. Yes, Senator. 
 
 Senator Myers. With all due respect to the other members of the 
 committee 
 
 Senator Gronna. I had not quite fimished. 
 
 Senator Myers. WiU you yield to me for a moment m order that 
 I might make a brief statement, because I have to leave the committee. 
 I like to hear the Senators talk when I have the time; I enjoy it, but 
 I have some matters on the floor of the Senate that require my 
 attention. I desire to ask that when you come to a vote you send 
 down for me on the floor of the Senate and I will return to the 
 
 committee. , „ -r i i j 
 
 Senator Gronna. I desire to ask that Senator Lane be heard upon 
 
 my motion to strike out. . j. , i o i 
 
 The Chairman. The motion pending is the motion of the benator 
 
 from Oklahoma, Mr. Owen. 
 
 Senator Owen. I withhold my motion. 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from North Dakota moves to strike 
 
 out, on page 38, lines 13 to 18, being the Crow item. 
 
32 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is an item in the bUl to which the attention 
 of the Senator from North Dakota was called, as follows : 
 
 For fulfilling treaties with Crows, Montana: For pay of physician, $1,200; and for 
 pay of cariienter, miller, engineer, farmer, and blacksmith (article ten, treaty of May 
 seventh, eighteen hundred and sixty-eight), 83,600; for pay of second blacksmith 
 (article eight, same treaty), §1,200; in all, $6,000. 
 
 Now, it seems from what I can ascertain that that is only part of 
 the expenses which are incurred in the conduct of that reservation; 
 that certain other sums, much larger than this, are expended for, 
 COT! luc ting the affairs of that agency, for pajang the salaries of 
 employees and other work on the reservation, which is not ap- 
 propriated by us, but which comes out of the moneys which directly 
 belong to the Indians, which is secured from the rent of their lands 
 for grazing purposes, and other purposes. There is received from 
 that source something like $160,000 a year, approximately speaking, 
 not to exceed that — and that money is all used up in one way or 
 anotlier in taking care of the irrigating ditches and paying salaries, 
 and the Crow Indians have protested against it. They claim, as I 
 ain informed, that under the treaty this money is their personal 
 property, and it should be paid to them in the shape of annuities. 
 There arc times wheri they have received no annuity. The money is 
 expended and the Indians claim at the same time that they are 
 short of food; they are going hungry and are illy clothed. As a 
 matter of fact, I have received personal letters as a member of the 
 Joint Commission to Investigate Indian Affairs, in which complaint 
 is made that they are going hungry. I have received numbers of 
 such letters. 
 
 Now, it seems to me if we are unlawfulh'' expending these moneys 
 which belong to them by treaty right, or "if the department is, and 
 we are consenting to it, we are building up a claim on the part of 
 these people that will compel this Government to pay back to them 
 money from the Treasury of this country. Now, that would not be 
 right, and if it is the case it ought to be stopped ; and if the depart- 
 ment is acting properly in this matter and making no mistake, we 
 should say so and notify those Crow Indians that everything is being 
 done that is right, and stop complaints. 
 
 The Chairman. What is the amendment you propose? 
 
 Senator Lane. There is no amendment proposed. The query 
 is 
 
 The Chairman. In what way can the committee be of service ? 
 
 Senator Lane. That is what I want to find out. Mr. Sloan here is 
 an Indian, a member of another tribe. He understands the matter, 
 and I would like to have him present it. He is an attorney, and I 
 would like to ask his opinion as to whether this Government is not 
 in this matter being made liable for future claims which may or may 
 not be recovered from the Government. Mr. Sloan, can you present 
 this matter ? 
 
 STATEMEITT OF ME. THOMAS 1. SIOAN. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Mr. Chairman, I can go over the matter as far as I 
 know it or understand it. 
 
 The Chairman. How long will it take you? 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 33 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I do not think it will take me long. I would like to 
 cover what I know about the Grows, what I have learned from a visit 
 there and in conversation with the Indians, if I state anything at all, 
 
 The Chairman. Very well. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I visited the Crow Reservation in the latter part of 
 last summer. I met there a number of Indians who I had met before 
 at the schools, either at Hampton or Carhsle. A number of them 
 were in the city of Washington. I did not meet any of the agency 
 officials because I desired to meet and converse with'the Indians and 
 get an understanding of their affairs from their point of view. 
 
 The fact is that I visited at their houses and met them on the roads 
 and at their camps and otherwise. There was a general complaint, 
 and the complaint reached particularly this point, to me, rather as a 
 hmnanitarian question. Here was a tribe of Indians located in a 
 healthful part of the countrv, with immense material wealth in graz- 
 ing lands and agricultural lands, and with an abundance of water, 
 and still they were disheartened; they were subject to the disease of 
 tuberculosis and trachoma, that being general among them. They 
 were disheartened from the fact that they felt that their material 
 interests were kept from them and turned to the benefit of the white 
 men who were becoming wealthy off of their lands and in the occupa- 
 • tion of their country. A peculiar thing that struck me was this, 
 that the individual Indians of that tribe had allotments made to 
 them in severalty, and had issued to them trust patents by the 
 United States, which declared that the sole use and benefit of those 
 lands belonged to the Indians, and had placed the United States 
 Government in the position of a trustee to see that they attained 
 the full use and benefit of those lands which had been legally assigned 
 to them. 
 
 Their complaint to me was that the larger part of those allotted 
 lands were being used by white men for grazing purposes without 
 any compensation either to them or to the United States Govern- 
 ment, and that that practice has continued over a period of years; 
 that the acreage of individually owned land that was used in that 
 way aggregated several hundred thousand acres of land, and from that 
 the individual owners did not receive a cent. They told me further 
 that they were required, if they attempted to use their own lands, 
 to fence them in accordance with the State laws. These allotments, 
 or the majority of them, were allotments that were made since the 
 Burke Act of May 8, 1906, which prevented the Indian allottees 
 from becoming citizens, so that the Indians themselves were wholly 
 wards of the Government and their lands were absolutely under the 
 control and jurisdiction of the United States and its officers. The 
 State laws in no way that I can see could apply to them; stiU they 
 were required, where they owned the land, to segregate it from that 
 which was used for grazing purposes by the white people and to fence 
 it in such manner as to keep out cattle that were owned by white 
 people and were grazing on the reservation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. By whom were they required to do that? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. By the agent and the agency officials, so they informed 
 me. They said further that when they had fenced their individual 
 lands they made good hay meadows, and that after they had cut their 
 hay and stacked it their fences were frequently torn down, either by 
 
 82833 — ^VOL 2 — 15 3 
 
g4 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 persons or cattle, and their hay and property destroyed, for which 
 they got no compensation. They told me further that when they 
 had put up hay in that manner and fenced the land as perfectly as 
 they could and they wished to sell the hay to outsiders, stockimen 
 who would bring stock within their inclosures and feed it, they were 
 not permitted to do so. By those acts they lost sometimes the whole 
 of their hay crop, sometimes only a part of it, and sometimes were 
 left to the alternative of selling it to the men whom they said were 
 specially favored for such price as those cattlemen chose to pay them. 
 Some of them told me they only got back what they had actually 
 spent on it in labor, and got nothing for the hay at all. 
 
 These conditions have made the Indians a disheartened and help- 
 less people. They have not been pernaitted to get from their own 
 land the actual value or income from it that it was worth. Conse- 
 quently many of them were in need of food and clothing and shelter, 
 and, I think, the worst of it all is that it has destroyed their initiative 
 and their independence and their will to go ahead and do something, 
 besides leaving them in a weakened condition from want of food and 
 being exposed to weather, so that they are readily attacked by disease. 
 
 The sums of money collected from grazing privileges aggregate sev- 
 eral hundred thousand dollars. I made inquiry as to how much of 
 that they received. They told me that they practically received none 
 of it; that it was expended in the employment of white people about 
 the reservation. There were also ceded lands that had been sold and 
 from which a large income was received, and that all of this money 
 both from the sale of land and from the grazing privileges was ex- 
 pended almost — in fact, all of it, they said— was spent either in the 
 payment of employees or in the irrigation projects; that the irriga- 
 tion projects were largely for the benefit of the white people who 
 owned land either adjoining the reservation or who had bought upon 
 the ceded land or the inherited lands that were sold; that the main- 
 tenance of the ditches, the cost of construction, and everything was 
 paid by the Indians and not any part of it by the white people at all; 
 that therefore the benefits from all the proceeds of their land either 
 went to employees about the reservation or to irrigation projects that 
 improved and made valuable the white naan's land. 
 
 These conditions seem to be so general that the Indians are dis- 
 couraged and backward, and instead of being the people that they 
 were some 20 years ago, they have lost that stamina and manhood 
 that is necessary for any people to accomplish something. They 
 report that I had from them when they first ceded their land in 1882 
 and took their diminished reservation was that they had lived in their 
 Indian way; they had plenty of game, which fixrnished them food, 
 and shelter, and that they had no sickness among them. Their san- 
 itary condition was good; that since then they have been gradually 
 going down, and now tuberculosis and trachoma and the diseases that 
 usually attack people in a weakened condition are present among 
 them. Although there is plenty of wealth and income belonging to 
 the tribe, it was not given to them in a manner in which they could 
 either protect themselves against cold and hunger and disease nor 
 take advantage of their agricultural lands with a view to developing 
 them. 
 
 Senator Owen. How is this money used ? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 35 
 
 Mr. Sloan. It is expended in the payment of employees about the 
 reservation and in irrigation projects. They have been expending, 
 I think, half a million dollars on irrigation, or more. 
 
 Senator Owen. Do you think it would be better to stop using that 
 money for irrigation and distribute the funds per capita, something 
 of that sort ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Some of it should be distributed per capita or expended 
 for them in the purchase of teams and agricultural implements, homes, 
 and the proper equipment of homes. 
 
 Senator Owen. We had a revolving fund provided here for such 
 purpose. Do they get any part of that ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. No, sir; not tnat I am aware of. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You stated, I think, Mr. Sloan, that a great 
 many of their allotments are included in the grazing area. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And that they were overrun with cattle and 
 their crops destroyed ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. There are very few lands that are cropped. 
 
 Senator La Follette. They are hay lands ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Their hay lands are overrun and their hay destroyed 
 in that way, but the larger part of their allotments, I should say more 
 than half of their allotments, are included in grazing lands or in 
 grazing permits that are granted to white men and for which no com- 
 pensation is made whatsoever. 
 
 Senator Owen. Do they not get pay for their grazing land that is 
 used by the white men 1 
 
 Mr. Sloan. No, sir; there is no payment made either to the Indian 
 or to the department for the use of the individual allotments that are 
 grazed upon the Crow Reservation. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is right. Senator Owen. 
 
 Senator Owen. Do you Imow anything about that, Mr. Meritt, as 
 to how that is ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; those allotments are included within a graz- 
 ing area and the entire grazing area is leased for a certain considera- 
 tion. We get more than $150,000 a year for leasing grazmg lands on 
 the Crow Reservation. 
 
 Senator Owens. Does each Indian get his pro rata share for the 
 land used ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; he gets his tribal share of the money that we 
 derive from the leasing of the reservation. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is it paid to him personally? 
 
 Senator Robinson. What authority have you to lease the Indians 
 allotments? -i i i 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. We have authority of law to lease the tribal lands. 
 There is a serious question of law but that has been the pohcy that 
 has been followed for years. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I know it has been the pohcy, but do you not 
 think, as a matter of fact, that under the law the department has no 
 authority to lease under these blanket leases the allotments that have 
 been apportioned to the particular Indians and cover the proceeds 
 into the tribal funds ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt-. We lease the entire tribal grazmg area, and those 
 Indians holding allotments within that area have the privilege of 
 
36 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 utilizing their allotments. If they want to fence that allotment, 
 they have the privilege of doing so and utiHzing it for their grazing • 
 purposes or for agricultural purposes. Now the department 
 
 Senator Owen. If they do not use it, then they get their pro rata 
 part of the proceeds from leasing it out ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They get their pro rata share of the tribal money 
 derived from the leasing. 
 
 Senator Lane. But no cash is paid to them? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Part is paid in cash. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the advantage to the Indian of having 
 allotments at all if the proceeds arising from the leasing of the land 
 in which their allotments are embraced are to be covered into the 
 tribal funds ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We are trying now to work out a plan 
 
 Senator Robinson. Yourecognize, then, that there is some injustice 
 in that feature of handling it ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; there is an injustice to the individual allot- 
 tee. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do your records disclose what area of land 
 within this leased area has been allotted — I mean what is the area 
 of lands that has been allotted to individual Indians that have been 
 leased heretofore under that system ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have about 400,000 acres of lands that have 
 been allotted to about 2,300 Indians. There are now about 1,800 
 Indians living on the Crow Reservation. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Has the department been leasing all those 
 lands in the manner you have described here ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; that has been the policy of the department 
 for a number of years, but we are now trying to work out a plan 
 upon the subject. We have instructed the superintendent to try 
 to work out a plan so that each individual will get his pro rata share 
 for the use of his individual allotment, in addition to sharing in the 
 general tribal funds derived from the leasing of the tribal lands. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Let me ask you 
 
 Senator Robinson. Just one moment, Senator. As a matter of 
 fact it is impracticable for an Indian who has been allotted land to 
 fence his lands and use them in that way, is it not, in many instances ? 
 He would not have the means to do that, would he 1 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Some Indians have the means. We furnish the 
 Indians with the means. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What does it cost to fence an average allot- 
 ment, if you know, in that area ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Estep of the department is here, and I shall be 
 glad to have him answer that question. 
 
 Mr. Estep. I do not know what it costs. The Indian does some 
 work himself. We furnish him from the reimbursable fund with the 
 wire to do it, and he cuts the posts and sets them himself. He is 
 compelled to do the wiring after his posts are cut and set. He puts 
 the wire on, and they fence their allotments in that way. 
 
 Senator White. Is it not almost impossible for him to erect a 
 fence that will withstand the pressure of large herds of stock? 
 
 Mr. Estep. No; I do not think so. They do it, and we do it with 
 ours. We have our own pasture there all fenced up that withstand 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. , 37 
 
 it from our own horses. We put our horses and some cows in there, 
 and that will hold them. 
 
 Senator White. I am not talking about holding them in, butkeep- 
 ing those from the outside from coming in. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. We hold ours inside without mixing with those from 
 the outside. 
 
 Senator Lane. Mr. Meritt, is it not true that at times they have 
 refused to allow the Indians to fence their lands, and they interfere 
 with the right of the lessee to use the water for his cattle; is that 
 not of record ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not think that has ever been done. I have no 
 knowledge of that. 
 
 Senator Lane. I think that that is true, and that it is in the record 
 of the hearings here that the attention of the department has been 
 called to that in individual cases. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Estep, who is the superintendent of that reser- 
 vation and knows the local conditions, can answer that question. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. It is continuing now, even where it is fenced. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you know that there are cases where the 
 water holes or water streams are upon the lands allotted to indi- 
 vidual Indians, and that therefore under the system that has hereto- 
 fore prevailed of leasing these lands in large areas, the lessees have 
 the use of the water on those individual allotments, and that when 
 the Indians have applied for permission to fence their allotments so 
 as to use them severally, they have been denied that privilege on the 
 ground that it would cut off the water supply for the herds of the 
 lessees 1 
 
 Mr. Estep. I know of no such case because it would be impossible 
 to cut off the water supply on that reservation in any large quantities. 
 It has never been done to my knowledge. I do not know what was 
 done before, but never to my knowledge has any Indian been denied 
 the right to fence his own allotment. In fact, we are doing every- 
 thing we can to encourage them to do it. However, we are not 
 encouraging them to do it for the purpose of letting the outsiders in 
 with a few head of cattle with the intention of their cattle breaking 
 out and running and ranging over the range. We are now furnishing 
 wire for the express purposes of fencing their own allotments and 
 making use of them. I have concluded in the department since I 
 have been down here a further purchase of some $15,000 worth of 
 reimbursable stuff, including wire for the purpose of fencing their 
 allotments, and the allowance has gone to the warehouse. 
 
 Senator Owen. I had the impression that they did have a reim- 
 bursable fund . 
 
 Senator Lane. In part 15 of the hearings before the Joint Commis- 
 sion to Investigate Indian Affairs there is a letter from Mr. E. B. 
 Meritt, Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs dated January 3, 
 1914, in which he refused the right of one apphcant to lease his land. 
 
 Mr. Estep. To an outside cattleman, I should jjidge, but I do not 
 know 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not know whether he is an outside or an inside 
 cattleman; does that make any difference? 
 
 Mr. Estep. It makes a very big difference. 
 
38 » INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. It may, but at any rate he states as follows: 
 
 January 3, 1914. 
 Little Nest, Wyola, Mont. 
 
 My Friend: I have received and considered your letter dated December 13, 1913, 
 requesting that you be allowed to lease your allotment and several other allotments 
 belonging to your family, to Mr. John Booz, for a period of three years on certain terms 
 and conditions. 
 
 It appears from a report recently received from the superintendent of the Crow 
 Agency that you submitted a similar application to him, which was denied. The 
 office has also recently received a communication from Mr. Booz applying to lease a 
 number of Crow allotments in a body for grazing purposes. 
 
 Some time ago the office instructed the superintendent of Crow Agency to prohibit 
 all leasing of allotments in groups for grazing purposes situated -within the tribal 
 pastures. This decision was reached after the matter had been very carefully consid- 
 ered, the principal objection being that if such leasing were permitted, outsiders 
 would secure control of groups of allotments taking in favorable watering places 
 which would damage the interests of the tribal permittees. The danger of cattle 
 breaking out ani straying from the inclosure into the tribal pastures would also be very 
 great. If Mr. Booz or any other responsible applicant should desire to lease their 
 allotments in question for farming purposes, the office would consider such applica- 
 tion, but for the reasons above given you are advised that the office deems it for the 
 best interests of the Crow Indians, as a tribe, to deny the application submitted by 
 you. 
 
 Your friend, 
 
 E. B. Meritt, Assistant Commissioner. 
 
 This man, Little Nest, or whoever it was, submitted the argument 
 that if they were allowed to lease to this person they would get better 
 
 S rices for their hay and rental for their land which would be paid 
 irectly to them instead of going iato the tribal funds and coming 
 back in the shape of an annuity or expenses for employees, or what 
 not, and it would greatly benefit those Indians who, for the lack of 
 funds, are in almost a destitute condition, and it seems to me that I 
 heard Mr. McMurray say the other day here that he undertook a case 
 somewhere iu Oklahoma, a similar case, whereby he recovered back 
 from the Government money which had been withheld from the 
 Indians for the use of their grazing lands, and it seems to me that 
 here you are building up, or might build up, a similar class of claims 
 against the Government. That is my interest in it — that, and to see 
 that the Indian gets what is coming to him. I think it is acknowl- 
 edged here by the department. 
 
 Senator Owen. Why was that denied this man; do you know, Mr. 
 Estep? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Because his fence is not in condition to turn stock, and 
 for the further reason that Mr. Booz did not have a fence on the land 
 that would turn the stock. He wanted to get a grazing privilege on 
 the range. He wanted to get in so he could get a grazing privilege on 
 the range. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are there any instances where that has been 
 done — where leases have been made of small areas supposed to be 
 fenced and where the cattle that should be confined within those smaU 
 areas so leased have broken over and run at large on the general range 1 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes, sir; that is true, and it is true in other cases where 
 men have bought land — inherited land that has been sold — and were 
 unable to or did not confine their cattle to the reservation of their 
 allotments. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. You mean to say there is a system prevailing 
 there of attempting to get the benefit of the range without paying for 
 
INDIAN Ayjr'ltOi'ltlATlUK BILL. 39 
 
 it by leasing small areas within ownership, or that have been allotted, 
 and then not maintaining sufficient fence to confine their stock, and 
 thus enabling them to break out and run over the range ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Can you not take care of that situation by impos- 
 ing penalties upon people whose stock get out '^ 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. We can; and I have notified one owner particularly in 
 that regard. 
 
 Senator White. Why not adopt that system ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. That would increase the complaint that is made; it 
 would take more men to do that. 
 
 Senator White. It would do justice to those individuals whose 
 rights ought to be protected. 
 
 Mr. Estep. Well, we think we are protecting the individual rights. 
 Of course that is a matter of opinion. We are doing the best we can 
 for them. The allotments of an Indian stand, in that western coun- 
 try particularly, on exactly the same status as a homesteader. A 
 homesteader in the range country must protect his homestead, and if 
 he does not do it with a proper and sufficient fence — ^which is defined 
 by the law of Montana — he can collect no damages from a trespasser 
 or from trespassing stock. The law defines it. 
 
 Senator White. That is a one-sided affair. It looks as if the man 
 whose stock gets out should be the man you should punish; he is the 
 man you should restrict rather than punish the other man for allowing 
 the cattle to graze there. 
 
 Senator Owen. That is the custom on the range where the ranges 
 are large and the homesteads are small. 
 
 Mr. Estep. If I have sufficient force, I can do that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. With regard to the matter of fencing these 
 allotments, if you please, Mr. Estep, you have material for fencing 
 which is issued to the Indians for fencing their allotments, I under- 
 stand 1 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes; it is on the reimbursable plan. 
 
 Senator La Follette. How large a force of employees have you 
 on the reservation ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. All told, including everything ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Estep. Eegulars, about 80 or 85, which include the Indian 
 police, and from that on up. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Have you any employees there who aid 
 these Indians in building their fences around their allotments 1 
 
 Mr. Estep. Oh, yes; we have the district farmers, who have charge 
 of that work ah the way through. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do those Indians know how to make fences 
 that wiU turn cattle ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes; I think so. They are pretty good workers. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You furnish them with aU the wire they 
 need, do you? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes; wire and staples. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And they have to procure the posts them- 
 
 Mr. Estep. They have to procure the posts themselves and do 
 the work of setting up the posts. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do they put on the wire, too ? 
 
40 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes; they put that on. 
 
 Senator La Follette. How are they able to pay for the posts? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. They get the posts off of the reservation; they grow 
 right there. They go and cut them right off of the land. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Are they permitted to cut posts on the reserva- 
 tion ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes, sir; that is on tribal land. 
 
 Senator La Follette. The employees on the reservation do not 
 assist in the actual making of the fence, do they ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Oh, no ; we do not have men enough for that, but they 
 visit the Indians every day or two to see how they are getting along 
 and to instruct them. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Are there many of those allotments fenced now? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. There are quite a number. 
 
 Senator Gronna. What do they do to get water? Of course, 
 where there are streams, I know how they get it; but how far do 
 they have to go to get water in case they have to drill a well, for in- 
 stance ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. On the rivers they only go 12, 15, or 20 feet. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Outside of that, outside of the land ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. There are very few of them that have their homes on 
 the high land where there is not a stream. 
 
 Senator Gronna. They would not necessarily have their homes 
 there, but I am speaking of their land, not where they have their 
 homes, but these allotments, 
 streams. There are very few of them that have not water most of 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Practically all the grazing allotments are along little 
 the year. 
 
 Senator White. What about this statement of Mr. Sloan as to the 
 condition of those people being afflicted with tuberculosis? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. AU Indians are afflicted with tuberculosis. The reser- 
 vation physician informed me that he thinks about 15 per cent of our 
 Indians practicaUy are tubercular, and he also informed me just before 
 I left the reservation that in every case of trachoma in which the 
 Indian would consent to an operation it had been attended to. 
 
 Senator Robinson. May I ask you how many physicians there are 
 on that reservation ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Three. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What is the percentage of Indians afflicted 
 with trachoma? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I do not know what the percentage is. The doctor 
 informed me — Dr. Dewey, who is a tubercular expert, and who 
 recently spent some time on the Choctaw Reservation and performed 
 a number of operations while he was there — that all cases that would 
 consent to an operation had been operated upon and relieved. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you know how many operations have 
 actually been performed? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I could not tell you as to that. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How long have you been superintendent of the 
 reservation ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Since last May. 
 
 Senator Robinson. How many times have you been out over the 
 reservatioji ? 
 
 Mi\ EsTEP. I could not teU you. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 41 
 
 Senator Robinson. Have you been extensively over the reserva- 
 tion? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I have been all over it. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Have you sought to visit the Indians in their 
 homes ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What are the sanitary conditions in their 
 homes ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. The sanitary conditions, I think, are average. I 
 might say that previously to going to the Crow Reservation I was 
 on the Fort Hall Reservation, and the homes of these Indians are far 
 superior to what they are on Fort HaU. 
 
 Senator Robinson. In your opinion, is there more trachoma and 
 tuberculosis among the Crow Indians than there is among other 
 Indians that you have had occasion to observe during your service 
 in the Indian Bureau? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. No; I think not. 
 
 Senator Robinson. What other Indians have you had occasion to 
 observe in that connection ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I was first with the Yankton Sioux, and then I have 
 been with the Fort Hall Indians, which consist of the Bannocks and 
 the Shoshones. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are the Yankton Sioux afflicted with tubercu- 
 losis ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. They are. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Have you an idea of what the percentage is ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. No; I would not care to say as to that. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Is it more numerous among them than among 
 the Crows ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I do not know their condition for the last four or five 
 years. 
 
 Senator Robinson. WeU, 15 per cent is a very low percentage, 
 according to the observations that I have made. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes; I think with the Nez Perces Indians it is consid- 
 ered that they are 75 per cent tubercular. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Do you know what the report of Mr. Lloyd — 
 the Lloyd report — shows with reference to the Crow Indians — what 
 percentage of them are afflicted with tuberculosis ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. No, sir; I do not. 
 
 Senator Robinson. As a matter of fact, it is a great deal higher 
 than 15 per cent, is it not? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I could not teU you as to that. I know he showed at 
 Fort Hall about 30 per cent, as I recall it. Of course, I had no inter- 
 est in the Crows at that time and had not seen his report since. He 
 likewise visited the Fort Hall Reservation for that purpose. 
 
 Senator White. You say you have been over this reservation 
 frequently ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Did you find any destitution, any want amongst 
 them ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. What would you call destitution ? 
 
 Senator White. I will let you decide that. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Some of the Indians are hard run. We are issuing 
 relief to them now. 
 
42 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILI.. 
 
 Senator White. What do you mean by hard run ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. That they are in hard shape for something to eat. 
 
 Senator White. The necessaries of Ufe ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. How are they clad ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Sometimes in a $150 overcoat with nothing to eat. 
 
 Senator White. How is it possible for them to get anything Uke 
 that? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. To get what ? 
 
 Senator White. A $150 overcoat. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I could not tell you, but they have them — fur-lined 
 coats, buffalo overcoats. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do they pay $150 for them? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I do not know whether they do or not. They can get 
 them at any time if they want to. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Are they comfortably clothed — that is the 
 situation the Senator wants. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Oh, yes; they are comfortably clothed. 
 
 Senator Robinson. We do not care about exceptional cases where 
 an Indian has spent his money for a luxury. 
 
 Senator Lane. An Indian may go out and catch beavers and tan 
 the skins and make a $500 suit of clothes that did not cost him 15 
 cents. 
 
 Senator White. What does their food consist of ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. They aU have flour. There are two mills on the 
 reservation. 
 
 Senator White. Do they have enough flour to give them all the 
 bread they want to eat ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. They ground flour this fall — four or five thousand 
 bags of flour. 
 
 Senator White. But do they get enough flour to eat ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes; they can have it. The trouble is that after they 
 get a good deal of it they do not take care of it. They seU it. 
 
 Senator White. Now, what else do they have ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. They have meat and beans. 
 
 Senator White. What kind of meat ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. They have beef and pork. They raise the pork. 
 
 Senator White. How much beef do you give them? 
 
 Mr. Estep. We do not give them beef. 
 
 Senator White. How much pork do you give them ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. We give them whatever the farmer calls for in cases. 
 We do not issue rations, you understand, on the Crow Reservation, 
 and have not for some years. 
 
 Senator White. You mean that you sell it to them ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. No; I mean in cases of what you would call destitu- 
 tion we give it to them. We have a provision for a relief fund. 
 
 Senator Owen. Where they are actually suffering for food, you 
 furnish it, do you not ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. That is it exactly. The farmer and field matron and 
 physicians and missionaries are the ones who usually bring those 
 cases to our attention. They tell us certain places where they are 
 hard up, and then I call for bids on certain kinds of food — pork for 
 one, beans for another, flour for another, and sugar. Our bids 
 specify Arbuckle's No. 3 coffee, and we issue them a little coffee and 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 43^ 
 
 rice and hominy. I think there are five or six staple articles that we 
 call for in the way of food for those particiilar cases. 
 
 Senator White. What proportion of the Indians do you have to 
 supply with those necessaries of life who are destitute ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. There is no proportion at aU. When winter comes on 
 we have been doing that. I think I have issued to probably a dozen 
 families during the present winter. 
 
 Senator White. Do you provide them with clothing, too? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. No, sir; we have not. 
 
 Senator White. Even when they are destitute? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I suppose if they were destitute we would find some 
 way. 
 
 Senator White. But have you suppHed them with any clothing ? 
 
 Mr. EsTBP. I have supphed the children with clothing — the chil- 
 dren at the schools; that is, underclothing in the case of young 
 children. 
 
 Senator White. I mean cases of destitution; have you found any 
 cases where that would apply ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. No, sir; I have not found any of that kind; I have not 
 had that brought to my attention. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Senator Owen, I wish to call your attention to this 
 
 f)Ouit: The allotted lands that are contained within the tracts or areas 
 or which grazing permits are issued are not paid for at aU, neither to 
 the Indian nor to the Government. That is simply pure gain to the 
 white man who is grazing his cattle there. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is the point. 
 
 Senator Owen. How is that, Mr. Superintendent ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. That is correct. 
 
 Senator Owen. Can that not be so arranged that the Indian will 
 get the benefit of that grass ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. We are working on that in the department at the pres- 
 ent time. The great diSiculty in that is the fact that many of the 
 allotments are partially fenced. A fenced allotment, of course, the 
 Indian is using himself; partially fenced, he may or may not use it. 
 He may use the part where the fence is down. That is one of the 
 difficulties we are working out in the department now and for which 
 I am principally here, namely, to work that out. 
 
 Senator White. What about those that are not fenced at all ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Those that are not fenced at all are just a homesteader 
 outside. 
 
 Senator White. Is it difficult to ascertain what proportion his 
 tract bears to the whole grazing area, and to charge for it and collect 
 it for him? 
 
 Mr. Estep. It would be for this reason, that 700 of these allotments, 
 or more, are inherited allotments, for which there may be one or ten 
 heirs, and to figure out the heirs' proportion of that is a work that 
 is very stupendous. 
 
 Senator White. That is a matter of distribution, is it not ? That 
 is not a matter of collecting the rent? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Oh, the lessees do not care about the rent; they just 
 take the land. 
 
 Senator White. So the only trouble to you would be to figure out 
 the distribution? 
 
44 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes, sir; to find out whether the land is actually fenced 
 or not fenced. 
 
 Senator White. What is the difficulty in charging a stock raiser 
 with the right to graze on this land in addition to the tribal land ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Nothing but clerical work. 
 
 Senator Lane. I would Uke to ask a question right there 
 
 Senator White. Pardon me a moment. Then the balance of it 
 would be a mere matter of distribution to find out to whom it was 
 going, rather than let it go to the cattlemen ? 
 
 Senator Lane. I want to caU attention to this matter, and ask 
 whether or not it is true 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Going further. Senator Owen, it has occurred to me 
 that if the Indians on that reservation were given justice, they would 
 not require charity. When they are made charity objects their 
 manliness and their initiative and everything that goes to give a 
 man force to do anything, is gone. It makes him subservient. 
 He has not any legal rights or equitable rights or anything else that 
 the officers there recognize. 
 
 Senator Owen. Tell us exactly what the injustice is, as near as 
 you can. Does it consist of this homestead land not being charged 
 for when the land leases are made to the cattlemen 1 
 
 Mr. Sloan. That is part of it. 
 
 Senator Owen. That is part of it. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. They grant the use of it to the white men. 
 
 Senator Owen. You say they grant the use of it? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I mean the Indian officials. 
 
 Senator Owen. They grant the use of this land without compensa- 
 tion? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Without compensation; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. How do they grant it ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. By granting a large area within which the individual 
 allotments are included. 
 
 Senator Owen. And without counting those individual allotments ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Without counting them. 
 
 Senator Owen. Your opinion is that those individual allotments 
 could be counted when the grazing lease is made ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. They certainly could; and, further than that, those 
 abuses put the department in the attitude of standing for the grazing 
 interests against the Indians. That is the general feehng among the 
 Indians, that if they have an allotment which they wish to use, their 
 use of it might in some way interfere with the favored cattleman 
 and he is prevented from getting the benefit of it. 
 
 Senator Owen. Is that what you are trying to work out, Mr. 
 Commissioner ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. You understand, these leases or permits 
 were executed prior to the beginning of this administration for a 
 period covering three years, I believe. We are now trying to work 
 out a plan so that the individual Indian will get the benefit of his 
 a,llotment. 
 
 Senator Owen. In other words, you are trying to correct this very 
 difficulty that Mr. Sloan is describing? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Have you not very recently executed a 
 number of those leases? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 45 
 
 Mr. Meritt. One permit has been executed by Commissioner Sells 
 under this administration, but every other permit was for a period 
 of three years, and they were executed prior to the beginning of this 
 administration. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But those leases, while they include lands 
 belonging to the individual Indians, they are not supposed to have 
 the use of that land, and the leases do not provide that they shall have 
 the use of that land, do they ? They lease only the land that belongs 
 to the tribe ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They lease only tribal land, and the individual Indian 
 has the use of his allotment, if he wishes, to fence that allotment from 
 outside grazing. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But, if you permit the cattlemen to have 
 the use of that land, is there any difficulty ; does it require any great 
 amount of work; is it an intricate problem at all to figure out or 
 compute just what proportion of the total area belongs to the in- 
 dividual Indians ? It would seem to me that it would be a very simple 
 problem. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We thought it was ourselves in the office until we 
 started to work it out with the superintendent, but the superin- 
 tendent has told us it will require a great deal of work in order ta 
 do that. I will be glad to have Mr. Estep explain the difficulties that 
 confront the office on that subject. 
 
 Senator La Follette. When did you first begin to try to do justice 
 to those individual allottees; how recently? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think it was some months ago that we wrote to the 
 superintendent. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But these complaints have been coming 
 in for years, have they not — from these individual Indians whose 
 lands were being used by cattlemen, and they were not getting 
 benefit from it; the cattle overran them, and they were not able 
 to make any use of their individual allotments themselves ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The department heretofore has been of the impres- 
 sion that in order to get the benefit of this grazing land, which is 
 worth $150,000 a j^ear to the Crow Indians, that the individual 
 Indians could subordinate their interests to the interests of the tribe. 
 We are now trying to work out a plan so that they can get the benefit 
 of the grazing land and at the same time work out the rights of the 
 individual Indians. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That plan is all right for the cattlemen, 
 and it is all right for the tribe, but it seems to me that it violates the 
 fundamental principle of justice to even consider for a moment subor- 
 dinating the rights of the individual Indians, a principle that is as 
 precious to them as the rights of the individual white men are. 
 
 Senator Owen. As I understand the situation, the individual 
 Indian has the right to go in and fence the land, and that you have 
 been trying to induce them to fence their own land by giving them 
 the wire and they wiU put up the posts ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. And the matter has not been definitely agreed 
 upon; that is, you do not say to the lessee, "You have to pay for 
 this homestead land," because the homestead land may be fenced at 
 any moment ? 
 
46 INDIAN APPEOPMATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. And jo\i are now trying to make some terms by 
 which this homestead land shall be paid for until it is taken over. 
 Is that the idea ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Owen. Is that your plan ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Mr. Meritt, right upon that proposition, is 
 it not a fact that the upland that is not suitable for agricultural 
 purposes, would hardly pay the Indian for fencing — just simply for 
 grazing purposes; you lease this land to the cattle company at about 
 3 cents an acre, do you not ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. It is more than that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. How much more ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. It is probably as high as llj cents. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Well, 11 cents — you mean in some cases? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. In some cases. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And in some cases it is as low as 3 ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. It is as low as 4^, I think. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Suppose it was an average of 10 cents an 
 acre, how much is an indivicfual allotment? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. The grazing allotments, the largest, would be 240 acres. 
 
 Senator La Follette. For an Indian? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Now, then, he would get 10 times that — 
 he would get $24 ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. If this land was leased at the same rate 
 that you lease to these settler people, that would not pay him for 
 fencing or maintaining a fence, and I should think that the depart- 
 ment would early have arrived at the conclusion that the only way to 
 give the Indian the benefit of that upland at all was to give him his 
 pro rate share of the income from the leasing, and not wait for the 
 Indians to go and fence land that would not yield him an iacome for 
 graziag purposes, even if he was permitted to put cattle on there and 
 lease to somebody else, which I judge he is not permitted to do. 
 
 Mr. Estep. No ; we want him to use it himself, he and his family. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But what use can he make of it ? He can 
 not eat the grass, and. he has not the stock to graze, and you will not 
 allow him to lease it individually to other stockmen. 
 
 Senator White. And you won't collect now. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And you won't collect now for the use of 
 it from the cattlemen. It seems to me that is a pretty tough case 
 for the Indian, and not a very good record for the Indian Office. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I would like to have Mr. Estep state what the depart- 
 ment is now trying to do to protect the interests of the individual 
 Indian, and also explain the difficulties we find in working out that 
 plan. 
 
 Senator White. Before he does that, let me ask this question: 
 This is about the beginning of the rental season, is it not ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes — the past year has gone. 
 
 Senator White. What is to hinder you from charging the cattle 
 men from the acreage included in these severalty allotments, making 
 them pay for it, and putting the money in your hands, or the hands 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 47 
 
 of the Government, to be distributed hereafter, as you may see 
 proper ? 
 
 Senator Lane. It is against the law for him to do that. I think 
 if he did that, it would be directly against the provisions of law which 
 makes it unlawful. 
 
 Senator White. Why ? 
 
 Senator Lane. Because the law forbids him from renting the Indian 
 land in any such manner. 
 
 Senator White. They can certainly make the men pay for the 
 acreage. 
 
 Senator Owen. If the Indians are complaining about it, naturally 
 they can get the consent of the Indians, that they might get the 
 benefit of the land used by those lessees. 
 
 Senator White. He can not do that unless he agrees to pay for the 
 other. It only requires a little intelligence and industry. 
 
 Senator Owen. They do not want the lessees there and do not want 
 to use it themselves. 1 do not Imow what that means. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. They want the use of the land themselves. They do 
 not want the lessee there. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I would like to read into the record a short letter 
 from Lodge Grass, Mont., as follows: 
 
 Lodge Grass, Mont., November 26, 1913. 
 To the Senators of Indian Affairs. 
 
 We Indians want to lease our land to John H. Booz. We have 840 acres, all fenced 
 grazing land. He will give us 20 cents per acre for it by the year for five years. Pleaae 
 help us as we are so bad in need of money to get us something to eat. Our cattle are 
 gone with Heinrich and we can not find them. 
 
 Mr. John H. Booz said he would give my father work in the spring at $40 per month. 
 
 Mr. Booz said my father is pretty fair hand with cattle or stock of any kind. 
 
 My father has worked for Booz and he gave him $2 per day to help him ship his 
 cattle, and he says Booz is honest with us. 
 Your friend, 
 
 Mr. SCRATCHBSFAOB. 
 Mrs. SORATCHESFACB. 
 
 Nellie Scratchespace. 
 
 That seems to be the complaint from these Indians, that although 
 their lands are fenced they are unable to lease them. 
 
 Mrs. Gret. Hundreds and hundreds of acres there are fenced. 
 
 Senator Lane. The reason he gave why these were refused, I 
 think, was that: 
 
 The allotments are within one of the tribal pastures now under permit, the holder 
 of which has the right to all the range not separatelj; fenced, including allotted lands. 
 It would be unfair to the permittee to allow the leasing of allotments in groups within 
 his j)asture controlling favorable watering places, which might result in much damage 
 to his interests. Aside from the mere occupation of the lands, it would be almost 
 impossible to prevent the stock from running on the tribal pasture. The office will 
 be glad to consider any leases covering these allotments, or others similarly situated, 
 for farming purposes only, and if you are interested in securing any leases for such 
 purpose it is suggested that you take the matter up direct with the superintendent 
 at Crow Agency, to whom a carbon copy of this letter is being sent. 
 
 That is from a letter dated December 27, 1913, addressed to Mr. 
 John Booz, Parkman, Wyo., from Mr. E. B. Meritt, assistant 
 commissioner. 
 
 There is another condition which prevails there and of which 
 complaint is made. What I am saying here is not to reflect upon 
 the department. I want you to get that clearly in mind. But it is 
 to save this Government after a while from claims which we would 
 
48 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 have to pay, and the department's attention should be brought to it. 
 There is a fence which has been placed 
 
 Senator Owen. I think there is no danger to the Government in 
 that case, because under the law if they do not fence it it lies in the 
 pubhc domain, and under the rule of the grazing area the party who 
 does not fence it is not responsible. It is a question of getting some- 
 body to take care rightly of these Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. A line fence has been run across the reservation. 
 Upon one side of it are the cattle of the permittee, and it is fenced 
 away from the Indians and their cattle. A large number— I do not 
 know how many — of Indian allotments lie on the other side of the 
 fence and they complain of that. They are fenced away from their 
 allotments, and that is a case where it seems to me they would have 
 just cause for complaint. 
 
 Senator Owen. I understand some of these Indians desire to use 
 this land themselves and would like to have these lands allotted to 
 them thrown together in a pasture so they could use them for their 
 own cattle and horses. Is that true, Mr. Superintendent ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Quite so, if you do use them. 
 
 Senator Owen. So they throw their lands together and fence them 
 in common ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes ; where a family — for instance, the Scott family — 
 they have all theirs fenced in. 
 
 Mr. Mejiitt. We are very glad to have them do that. 
 
 MJrs. Grey. Which family is that ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Mart Scott. Mrs. Scott has something hke 150 head of 
 cattle and I should guess 35 or 40 horses. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. Where is their pasture ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. On Soap Creek. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. Down where Harry lives ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Above his place. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. Where did they get their cattle ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. They raised them. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. They had no cattle when I was there. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Mr. Mart Scott ? 
 
 Mrs. Grey. Yes ; they are one of the very worst ones in trouble on 
 account of that fence, because their range is up where Frank Emery is. 
 
 Mr. Estep. I wish to say to the committee that I issued a permit 
 not two months ago to sell 25 head of cattle, which she did do. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. She is selling them because she has no range for them. 
 
 Mr. Estep. That is not the reason. She sold them in order to pay 
 a note she signed inadvertently after she had received a patent in fee. 
 
 Senator La Follette. On the point suggested by Senator Lane, as 
 to liability ultimately accruing against the Government, I want to 
 ask Mr. Meritt with regard to the right of the Government to make the 
 tribal lease at all for the Crow Indians. Is that not dependent under 
 the law and the treaties with the Crow Indians upon an assent beiag 
 given to the tribal lease being made by the council and assent by the 
 council of the Indians to the lease being made at all? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That question was submitted to the department under 
 date of October 21, 1899, and the then First Assistant Secretary of 
 the Interior, Hon. Frank Pierce, wrote the following letter to the 
 Commissioner of Indian Affairs: 
 
INDIAN JlPPBOPBUTION BILL. 49 
 
 Sib: The department has conai<lered your communication of 'October 11, regarding 
 the letting of grazing privileges on Indian reservations, both treaty and Executive 
 order, and agrees -with your office that there is authority for issuing permits for such 
 privileges, as has been done for several years. You will adhere to the policy hereto- 
 fore in force. The papers with your letter are herewith. 
 Ver>' respectfully, 
 
 Frank Pierce, Assistant Senrtary. 
 
 Senator La Follette. This law provides that no lease could be 
 made of grazing lands without the consent of the council of the tribe, 
 and did the department get around that by issuing permits for leasing 
 instead of issumg what they call leases, which were prohibited to be 
 made in the case of these Crow Indians and perhaps others, without 
 the consent of the tribe expressed by its council ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Here is a provision of the law, under act of April 4, 
 1882, 22 Statutes at Large, page 42, ratifying the agreement with the 
 Crows for a small portion of their reserves and for other purposes, and 
 I quote the following article : 
 
 Third ._ That if at any time hereafter we, as a tribe, shall consent to permit cattle 
 to be driven across our reservation or grazed thereon, the Secretary of the Interior 
 shall fix the amount to be paid by parties so desiring to drive or graze cattle; all moneys 
 arising from this source to be paid to us under such rules and regulations as the Secre- 
 tary of the Interior shall prescribe. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But as a condition precedent there the 
 Indians are to consent? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is the only provision of law in regard to that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. The only way the Indians could consent 
 would be by council, or by the consent given by the individual 
 members of the tribe, aU of them joining in it. Is it not a fact that 
 the Crow Indians have never consented through their council, or 
 otherwise, to the making of this lease or these leases ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mi-. Estep tells me the business committee has 
 agreed 
 
 Senator La Follette. I understand; but is it not a fact that 
 because you could not get the consent of the tribe through the council 
 that you dissolved the tribal council and do not recognize the tribal 
 council any longer, but instead have created a business committee 
 which you have substituted as the representative of the tribe, and that 
 through the consent of the business committee you make these leases ? 
 Is that not the fact? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No leases have been made under this administration. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You stated a few minutes ago that a lease 
 was made here by Mr. Sells ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Except on permit. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Well, a permit and a lease operate in the 
 
 same way ? 
 
 Senator Lane. You have received $11,000 payment on it, have 
 
 you not ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes; that permit is now in force — a permit to graze on 
 the reservation. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What is the difference between a permit to 
 graze and a lease to graze ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is this legal difference: A permit is revocable 
 at any time, whereas if it were a lease it would be entered into for a 
 period of years. 
 
 82833 — VOL 2 — 15 4 
 
50 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 
 
 Senator La Follette. But suppose the lease is made terminable 
 at any time? 
 
 Senator White. Or a lease at will 1 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes; it would be exactly like your permit. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. You could not get a cattleman to take that kind of a 
 lease. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That does not make any difference with 
 the status of the matter in the law. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not beheve the Crow Indians would object to 
 the permit that has been executed under this concession. 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is.not the question. 
 
 Senator Owen. Have they been giving their consent during recent 
 years, or have they been protesting against these leases ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Here is the proceedings of a council held by the Crow 
 Indians relating to the leasing of their tribal lands for grazing pur- 
 poses, held at Crow Agency, Mont. It reads as follows: 
 
 (Office of Indian Affairs, received Oct. 29, 1909.) 
 
 PROCEEDINGS OF A COUNCIL HELD WITH THE CROW INDIANS RELATING TO THE LEASING 
 OF THEIK TRIBAL LANDS FOR GRAZING PURPOSES, HELD AT CROW AGENCY, MONT. 
 
 We, the undersigned Crow Indians, wlio constitute a majority of the council of the 
 tribe, and who have been duly empowered by the tribe to act as a council for and to 
 transact all business of the tribe relating to leasing the unallotted or tribal lands, 
 speaking for the Crow Tribe of Indians' do hereby authorize and empower the Com- 
 misJoner of Indian Affairs, or his duly authorized representative, to enter into agree- 
 ments for the leasing and to lease the tribal lands of the Crow Reservation for grazuig 
 purposes, for such terms, to such persons, and under such conditions, rules, and 
 regulations as have been or may hereafter be prescribed b> the Secretary of the 
 Interior, under the provisions of the act of Congress approved February 28, 1891 (26 
 Stat. L., 794), as amended by theact.of Congress of August 15, 1894 (28 Stat. L., 305). 
 It is hereby declared also that it was the intention and desire of the Indians in 
 council on February 18, 1909, at Crow Agency, Mont., to grant authority and power 
 to enter into agreements for grazing privileges on the Crow Reservation in accordance 
 with the foregoing, and the action of that council is also hereby ratified and confirmed. 
 Signed the 25th day of October, 1909. 
 
 Plenty Coos, Bell Rock (thumb print"). Sees with his Bars (thumb print), 
 Two Leggins (thumb print), Spotted Rabbit (thumb print), Sits down 
 Spotted (thumb print). Medicine Crow (thumb print). Bear that Walk 
 (thumb print). Coyote that Runs, Stops (thumb print), George W. 
 Hogan. The Bread (thumb print). Packs tlie Hat, Horace Long Bear 
 (thumb print), Plain Owl (thumb print). Bear Claw (thumb print), 
 Goes Ahead (thumb print). 
 We, Fine Carpenter, Joe Cooper, and Frank Shively, hereby certify that we are. the 
 official interpreters of the Crow Tribe of Indians; that the above-named persons con- 
 stitute a majority of the council of the tribe, and that they have been duly empowered 
 by the tribe to transact all business for the tribe in relation to the leasing of the tribal 
 lands; that we correctly interpreted and fully explained to them the foregoing council 
 proceedings; that they fully understood the contents and meaning thereof; and that 
 we witnessed the signing of the same this 25th day of October, 1909. 
 
 (Signed) James Carpenter, 
 
 (Signed) Frank S. Shivbly, 
 
 (Signed) J. W\ Cooper. 
 
 Official interpreters for the Crow Jndians. 
 
 I, Ernest P. Holcombe, chief supervisor of Indian schools, hereby certify that the 
 a bove is a true copy of the council proceedings of the Crow Indians held October ^5, 
 1909, authorizing the leasing of their tribal lands. 
 
 (Signed) E. P. Holcombe, 
 
 Chief Supervisor. 
 
IKDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 5l 
 
 That was signed by a large number of Indians. 
 
 benator La Follette. I simply want to get at the rock-bottom 
 facts m this matter. Smce that so-caUed council have not the 
 Indians m council protested against the leasmg of their lands? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But you have not been on there more than 
 a tew months? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. That is what I say. Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But a good deal of time has passed since 
 1899 s 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Before you went on there? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. What are the facts about that, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I have no knowledge of their protesting agamst the 
 leasmg of their lands. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Is it not a fact that the Indian Office cre- 
 ated this business committee to deal with the Indians mstead of 
 dealing with them through their councU? 
 
 Mr. Estep. I think. Senator 
 
 Senator La Follette. I am addressing Mr. Meritt for just one 
 moment, please. 
 
 _ Mr. Meritt. That business committee was created prior to the 
 time I was assistant commissioner; therefore I am not familiar with the 
 facts of which you speak. 
 
 Senator Owen. I understood this so-caUed council meeting was 
 a forgery. Was that so or not ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not think so. Senator. We have only the state- 
 ment of Mrs. Grey to that effect. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. I think if I may read a letter in the record that imme- 
 diately precedes that Mr. Meritt will say he is not correct. It 
 immediately precedes the council proceedings he read. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That council was ia 1899, Senator. 
 
 Senator Owen. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Estep. Those men are stdl members of the business committee, 
 or council. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. Frank Shively ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. He is not. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. Joe Cooper ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Sees-with-His-Ears is. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. None of those who signed are still. 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes; they are. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. During the last five years the grazing income from 
 the Crow Reservation has been contributed to the credit of Com- 
 missioner Valentine when he was commissioner. The grazing income 
 from the reservation was about 150,000 and we are now getting 
 $150,000 from that reservation. The council at this time is self- 
 supporting. We are not asking for an appropriation from Congress 
 for those Indians. The reservation is being so managed that it is now 
 self-supporting, and if we could have all the reservations in the 
 United States conducted upon that basis it would save the Govern- 
 ment gratuity appropriations amounting to millions of dollars 
 annually. 
 
52 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Mrs. Gkey. The leases were raised immediately after the hearings 
 before this committee, and I think I was the only one who made any 
 charges and raised the leases. 
 
 Senator Owen. We have considered this two hours now. 
 
 Senator Lane. I should hke to find out whether the money paid 
 to the Indians is an annuity, or whether it is expended m payment of 
 salaries in part, or what does become of the money? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is paid in part for salaries, part is paid to the 
 Indians, and part of it is paid in maintaining the irrigation project, 
 improving the irrigation project, which has been under construction 
 for a great many years. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do you know how much is paid in salaries and how 
 much is paid to maintain the irrigation projects; how much in 
 annuities — how much last year in annuities and the year before? 
 The year before that I understood they did not pay them any annui- 
 ties. . . 
 
 Mrs. Grey. They paid them no annuities. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. You will recall that Mrs. Grey stated the other day 
 that Supt. Scott testified there were 600 employees on that reserva- 
 tion. The facts are there are 97 employees on the reservation. 
 Thirty-seven of those employees are white and 60 are Indians. The 
 majority of the employees on the reservation are Indians. 
 
 Senator La Follette. She did not state there were 600 employees 
 on that reservation at this time. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There never have been 600 employees on the reserva- 
 tion. 
 
 Senator Lane. Mr. Scott testified there were. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. That v/as my statement — that he so testified. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. You wiU find that was a typographical error. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. It was not a typographical error, because I noticed it 
 at that time. 
 
 Senator Lane. I was astonished at that statement. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. And I do not think it was far from the facts, if you 
 win read that letter there, which was taken 
 
 Senator White. It relates to a past condition, anyhow. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. If you are going into this matter 
 
 Senator Lane. On page 1887, Mr. Scott, superintendent at that 
 time, said: 
 
 In the summer, -when the work is in full swing, there may be 400 or 500. At one 
 time our pay roll aggregated something like 600. It may be said that on that roll a 
 great many names appeared several times — that ia, an Indian who would come on 
 and work for a day or two and quit; go off and come back in a day or two later; go in 
 again, working a few days at a time. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We have 97 on the reservation now — 37 whites and 
 60 Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. Then, if this money is under treaty stipulation to 
 go to the Indians personally, the question arose with me whether or 
 not you are not making a claim against the Government by using it 
 for other purposes, however well meaning you might be. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. There is no treaty provision requiring that this money 
 shall go to the Indians personally. There is no authority of law 
 passed by Congress authorizing the Secretary of the Interior to 
 expend the Indian money, what is known as Indian money — pro- 
 <>«eds of labor, including moneys derived from leasing on reserva- 
 
INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 59 
 
 tions— for the benefit of the Indians on the reservation and for 
 administrative purposes on the reservation. We have not only 
 express authority of law for that action, but we also have the decision 
 of the Comptroller of the Treasury. 
 . Senator White. There is no such provision in the treaty then? 
 Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; the law I have referred to is found in the act 
 of March 3, 1883 (22 Stat. L., 590), which provides as follows: 
 
 T roceeds of all pasturage and sales of timber, coal, or other product of any Indian 
 reservation, except those of the Five Civilized Tribes, and not the result of the labor 
 of any member of such tribe, shall be covered into the Treasury for the benefit of such 
 tribe under such regulations as the Secretary of the Interior shall prescribe; and the 
 Secretary shall report his action in detail to Congress at its next session. 
 
 Also act of March 2, 1887 (24 Stats. L., 463), as follows: 
 
 That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to use the money which has 
 been or may hereafter be covered into the Treasury under the provisions of the act 
 appro^■ed March 3, 1883, and which is carried on the books of that department under 
 the caption of "Indian moneys, proceeds of labor," for the benefit of the several 
 tribes and wMch account said money was covered into, in such a way and for such 
 purposes as in his discretion he may thmk best, and shall make annually a detailed 
 report to Congress. 
 
 That is also supplemented by the decision of the comptroller, which 
 
 Eermits the department to expend the money in a way in which it is 
 eing expended in the Crow Reservation, and I wlQ ask that this 
 decision of the Comptroller of the Treasury be included in the record, 
 if agreeable to the committee. 
 
 The Chairman. Without objection, that will be included. 
 
 USE OF INDIAN MONEYS, PROCEEDS OP LABOR. 
 
 The authority to use Indian moneys, proceeds of labor, is in the discretion of the 
 Secretary of the Interior, in such way and for such purpose as he may deem best for 
 the Indians, and is not limited by the fact that specific appropriations may have been 
 made for such purpose, but the Indian moneys and the appropriations are cumulative, 
 and equally available for the purpose. 
 
 The provisions of the act of June 7, 1897 (30 Stat., 93), allowing the Indian Depart- 
 ment to use an appropriation, general in terms, where funds appropriated in specific 
 terms for a particular object are insufiicient, was repealed by the act of March 3, 1911 
 (36 Stat., 1062), and the appropriation contained in the Indian appropriation act of 
 March 3, 1911, supra, known as "Contingencies," can not be used to supplement the 
 appropriations for support and civilization of the Indians. 
 
 Acting Comptroller Mitchell to the Secretary of the Interior, June 24, 1911: 
 
 I have your request of June 23, 1911, for decision of questions stated therein, as 
 follows: 
 
 "1. Can a specific appropriation, not sufficient to meet the needs of the Indian 
 Service when the best interests of the Indians are considered, be supplemented by 
 the use of 'Indian moneys, proceeds of labor,' belonging to the Indians of an Indian 
 reservation for the support of the Indian schools or the payment of the salaries of 
 employees who administer the affairs of the Indians on said reservation? 
 
 "2. Can the appropriation contained in the item in the Indian appropriation act, 
 known as 'Contingencies,' act of March 3, 1911 (36 Stat. L., 1061), be used to supple- 
 ment the support and civilization appropriations on Indian reservations, including 
 pay of employees, where such specific appropriations are inadequate for the needs 
 of the Indian Service." 
 
 The questions will be answered in the order submitted. 
 
 1. The question is understood to involve the use of "Indian moneys, proceeds of 
 labor," for the same purposes as those for which appropriations have been made for 
 support and education of the Indians, if no prohibition upon the use of the Indian 
 moneys appears in express terms in the appropriation. 
 
 The act of March 2, 1887 (24 Stat., 463), authorizing the use of "Indian moneys, 
 proceeds of labor," provides — . 
 
 "That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to use the inoney which 
 has been or may hereafter be covered into the Treasury under the provisions of the 
 
^4c INDIAN" APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 act approved March third, eighteen hundred and eighty-three, and which is carried 
 on the boots of that department under the caption of 'Indian moneys, proceeds of 
 labor,' for the benefit of the several tribes on whose account said money was covered 
 in, in such way and for such purposes as in his discretion he may think best, and shall 
 make annually a detailed report thereof to Congress." 
 
 The expenditure of these moneys is not specifically defined beyond that it must be 
 for the benefit of the particular tribe to whom it belongs. 
 
 The appropriations for the respective tribes as they appear for the fiscal year 1912 
 (36 Stat., 1058, 1062, et seq.) are lump-sum appropriations made in general terms for 
 support and education, including pay of superintendent, and are appropriations 
 specifically for support and education of the Indians. They are not, however, neces- 
 sarily exclusive in expenditures for that purpose. The authority to use "Indian 
 moneys, proceeds of labor," is in the discretion of the Secretary in such way and for 
 such purposes as he may deem best for the Indians, and is not limited by the fact that 
 specific appropriations may have been made for such purpose. The Indian moneys, 
 to the extent the Secretary determines it to be for the benefit of the Indians to use 
 them and the appropriations, are cumulative and equally available for the purpose. 
 
 I understand, also, from the submission that the Indian moneys have been so used 
 heretofore, and such uses reported to Congress under the raquirements of the act of 
 1887, supra, so that the use of the Indian moneys in connection with the purposes of 
 appropriations must be known to and have the sanction of Congress. 
 
 There is no authority, however, to use'the Indian moneys to relieve the appropria- 
 tions where they are exclusive, because of the obligations of the United States by 
 treaty or agreement to bear such expense. That was the real question considered 
 and decided in 16 Comptroller's Decisions, page 20, cited by you, and the statement 
 in said decision that the Indian moneys "are not to be charged with the expenses of 
 administration for which Government appropriations are available or which the 
 Government is bound to defray " is explained by the views expressed in the present 
 decision. 
 
 2. The appropriation in the Indian act of March 3, 1911 (36 Stat., 1061), for contin- 
 gencies of the Indian Service provides: 
 
 "For contingencies of the Indian Service: For traveling and incidental expenses 
 of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and other officers and employees in the Indian 
 Service, including clerks detailed from the Bureau of Indian Affairs for bpecial serv- 
 ice in the field; for traveling and incidental expenses of special agents, at $3 per day 
 when actually employed on duty in the field, exclusive of transportation and sleeping- 
 car fare, in lieu of all other expenses, including expenses of going to and from the 
 seat of government and while remaining there under orders; for pay of employees not 
 otherwise provided for; and for pay of special agents, at 12,000 per annum each, 
 $115,000." 
 
 The appropriations which appear in the same Indian act in general terms for support 
 and civihzation of the respective tribes are specifically for the purposes for which 
 made. In relation to the appropriation, supra, for contingencies, the appropriations 
 for support and civilization are exclusively for the purposes for which made and pre- 
 clude the use therefor of the appropriation, supra, for contingencies. 
 
 In this connection attention is invited that the provisions of the act of June 7, 1897 
 (30 Stat., 93), allo^ving the Interior Department to use an appropriation general in 
 t«rms where funds appropriated in specific terms for a particular object are insufficient 
 was repealed by the act of March 3, 1911 (36 Stat., 1062). 
 
 Mr. Sloan. The further complaint of the Indians was that the 
 moneys collected 
 
 Senator La Follette. Just before you leave that I want to get 
 this matter of the council fixed in the record here. On the 13 th of 
 February, 1915, I addressed a letter to the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affau-s, m which I asked this question: 
 
 I should like if you would furnish me the authoritv— you also say in your letter 
 there is no regularly recognized council of the Crow iSadians. You have referred to 
 this council that was held in 1909, which authorized the Heinrich leases at that time. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. It did not authorize the leases. 
 _ Senator La Follette. The vahdity of that council has been ques- 
 tioned, but I am passing that now. Since that time I ask you if it 
 is not a fact that the Indian Office has not recognized any council 
 of the Crow Indians ? 
 
UroiAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 55 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I asked Mr. Estep the other day if they had any regu- 
 larly organized councU on that reservation. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Since he came on here ? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. He could not know anything about it 
 before ? • 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No. And I had no information about the conditions 
 existing on that reservation in 1909, or several years ago. 
 
 Senator La Follette. It is six years since 1909, and this question 
 of the council has come up in that time with the Indian Office between 
 the Crow Indians and the Indian Office, has it not ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think there has been more or less discussion of the 
 councils on the Crow Reservation during the last few years. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And is it not a fact that this tribal com- 
 mittee was created by the Indian Office and upon suggestion of the 
 Indian Office and is now the only authority recognized by the Indian 
 Office as representing the tribe and with which the Indian Office deals 
 in tribal matters ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think we submit matters to what is known as the 
 business committee. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes. Who created the business committee? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Estep could answer that better than I. He is 
 more familiar with the conditions. 
 
 Senator La Follette. When was it created first, I will ask you ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Several years ago. 
 
 Senator La Follette. He was not there at that time, was he? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir. 
 
 Senator La Follette. State, if you know, when this business com- 
 mittee was created and by whom it was created ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not know, Senator. 
 
 Senator La Follette. You know nothing about that ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I personally have had very little to do with Crow mat- 
 ters. The Crow leasing matters were handled under the last admin- 
 istration by Mr. Valentine and very largely by Assistant Commissioner 
 Abbott. Under this administration the only permit that has been 
 issued on the Crow Eeservation was handled personally by Commis- 
 sioner Sells. However, I think that that permit was very fair to the 
 Indians, and I indorse very fully the action of the Commissioner of 
 Indian Affairs. 
 
 Senator La Follette. But assent of the Indians to that permit 
 was obtained through this business committee, was it not ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not believe that the permit has yet been ap- 
 proved by the department.* 
 
 Senator La Follette. I mean the assent of the Indians to the 
 making of that permit ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not think it has yet been submitted to the 
 Indians. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Not yet submitted at all? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No. 
 
 Senator Lane. But the cattle are on there ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes; the cattle are on the reservation. However, 
 so far as I am concerned, and I believe so far as Commissioner Sells 
 is concerned, we will not have the slightest hesitation in giving to 
 
56 INDIAK APPEOPRIA.TI0N BILL. 
 
 the Crow Indians the fullest and freest opportunity to pass on this 
 pennit. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Through a council? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Either through a council or through any method 
 that this committee may deem proper. We want the Crow Indians 
 to have the—* — 
 
 Senator La Follette. Since the law provides that leases can only 
 be made with the consent of the Indians through their council, it 
 seems to me it would be well to express right in any provision regard- 
 ing Crow Indians that we adopt as a part of this bill a declaration, a 
 proviso, that the leases hereafter shall not be made, excepting with 
 the consent of the Crow Indians, expressed through their councU. 
 
 Senator White. Constituted by them ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes; a council constituted by them. 
 
 Mr. Mebitt. So far as I am concerned, and so far as the office is 
 concerned, I am sure we would not have the slightest objection to 
 that. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Do you not think that would tend to sat- 
 isfy the Indians, to give them a part, to recognize them ? 
 
 Senator White. Give them a part and allow them to manage 
 their own affairs? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think it would be helpful to the Indians and also 
 to the office. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that amendment being 
 prepared and inserted on line 18? 
 
 Senator Owen. I have no objection to that. 
 
 The Chairman. I think that would be very salutary. Let Senator 
 La Follette prepare it. 
 
 Senator Owen. It is 2 o'clock, Mr. Chairman. Is there any further 
 discussion of this matter ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I should like to hear a little further from 
 Mr. Sloan. 
 
 Senator Owen. After you have disposed of this matter ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. We have only disposed of one feature of it, 
 pertaining to how leases shall be made. 
 
 Senator Owen. I will ask that the chairman and the committee 
 excuse me. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Mr. Sloan can go ahead and make his 
 statement, and if the committee is willing continue the session until 
 he gets through. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. The further objection of the Indians was that all of 
 the vast sums that were collected for grazing permits and also for 
 the sale of ceded lands was expended without their consent, and the 
 largest part of it was used in irrigation projects, in the construction 
 and maintenance of them, and that a very large part of those moneys 
 collected were used in irrigation projects that were only beneficial to 
 the white men, to irrigate and make valuable the lands of white men 
 and not the lands of Indians, and that nothing was collected or con- 
 tributed by the white men who had those benefits at the cost of the 
 Indian money. They were very emphatic in the proposition that 
 the moneys which came from the use of their lands and the sales of it 
 should not be expended without their consent, and they felt that it 
 was used in a manner which did not do the tribe any material good; 
 that if it had been used for developing an agricultural system, an indi- 
 
inWan appeopbiation bill. 5t 
 
 vidua! herd system, that the Indians of the tribe would have had some 
 benefit from it; that the Indians would have had an opportunity to 
 develop in a business way; that they would have had some independ- 
 ent training; and that they would .not be dependent upon the order 
 ©f the agent in charge of the agency, or be treated as they said as 
 charity patients in obtaining some benefit out of their own moneys. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Is that aU? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I think that is all. 
 
 Senator WuriE. Did you see any of the conditions yourself, Mr. 
 Sloan ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I did. 
 
 Senator White. You have told us what the Indians said ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Now give us what you think about the situation. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. My idea orthe situation is this: From the observation 
 that I made of that country and those Indians and the conditions, it 
 seemed to me that their rights were made subservient to the interests 
 of the cattlemen and through the agency force. That instead of the 
 tribes being the dominant owners of the soil and having rights there 
 they were the feUows who were least considered, and that through that 
 treatment for some considerable time past that they had become 
 dependents. 
 
 Senator White. And dispirited ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. And dispirited. 
 
 Senator White. When were you there? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. The latter part of last summer. 
 
 Mr. Estep. Tell us how long, please ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. You may ask me any questions you wish. I felt, from 
 the appearance of some of the houses that I visited that there was 
 much poverty. They were sleeping on the floors; their clothing was 
 but very httle and some of it bore the evidences of wear. Indians 
 in their nature are generally neat and tidy, both men and women, 
 and if they have the opportunity and means they maintain themselves 
 in proper condition. Tsaw families there who had not means to do it. 
 I saw old men, 60 and 70 years of age, I am sure, who were pitching 
 hay and working hard and attempting to provide themselves with 
 something for wmter. I think one of the most discouraging things 
 I ran across was a bimch of Indians at the town of Lodge Grass. 
 They had bought a tract of land and paid for it 
 
 Senator La Follette. Were they Indians? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Yes, sir; all Indians. They had established a fair and 
 they came to me and asked me to write some letters to the Commis- 
 sioner of Indian Affairs to permit them to hold their fair there that 
 fall. They told me they had been issued an order that they had to 
 consohdate with the agency fair and come under its control; that 
 there was no place there for them to camp and the place was neither 
 cleanly or sanitary; that it would take them away from their homes 
 and crops and that their homes and crops would be in danger of fire 
 from the railway and their cattle be in danger of being run over by the 
 trains. I think probably the cattle they referred to at that time were 
 cattle that had been bought as a tribal herd. They were cattle which 
 had been brought upon the range recently and they were nervous and 
 running about. I saw a good many of them myself. They were very 
 much disturbed over the fact that after having created an organiza- 
 
58 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 
 
 tion and spending a good deal of money establishing themselves so 
 as to conduct the fair that they were arbitrarily ordered to discon- 
 tinue it and join up under the direction of the agent at the agency, 
 and I felt that it was an imposition. 
 
 Senator White. What right had the agent to direct them how they 
 should hold their fair ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs was the man who 
 exercised that power without authority. Whether he did it under 
 the direction or advice of the agent or not I do not know. 
 
 Senator White. Did you see any destitution? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I did. 
 
 Senator White. Much or httle? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I did not get sufficiently over the reservation to see 
 whether it was much or little generally as to the whole country, but 
 there was a good deal in that vicinity where I went. I would say 25 
 per cent. 
 
 Senator White. That proportion of destitution in that part of the 
 reservation which you visited ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Thompson. How long were you there ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I was there a week. I was there twice. 
 
 Senator White. What part of the reservation were you on? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I was at the town of Harding and across the reservation 
 from southeast to northwest from there, and I met a number of 
 Indians. 
 
 Senator White. What time of the year was that? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. The latter part of August or in September. 
 
 Senator White. Of last year ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Were you there then, Mr. Estep ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Did you see anything of that ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Of which ? Of Mr. Sloan ? 
 
 Senator White. Of what he has described. 
 
 Mr. Estep. No, sir; I did not. 
 
 Senator White. Were you over the ground he described ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes, sir; I have been over the ground he described. 
 The fact is there are very few Indians around Harding, where he says 
 he was. Not more than half a dozen. 
 
 Senator White. How long have you been in the Indian Service 1 
 
 Mr. Estep. I have been in the Indian Service 10 years. 
 
 Senator White. And you saw nothing of what he described ? 
 
 Mr. EsTBP. I saw nothing of what he described, nor he did not 
 see it. 
 
 Senator White. Did you go into the houses ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. I did go iato the houses; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. How do you know he did not see it ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Because I know it was not there. 
 
 Senator White. I think you ought to be a little more respectful in 
 characterizing another man's language, before this committee at least. 
 
 Mr. Estep. If you will suggest the language I will put the facts 
 to it. 
 
 Senator White. You could say he was mistaken. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 59 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I could say that, but he did not make the statement 
 he was mistaken. He said he was there. 
 
 Senator White. I think something is due this committee. 
 Mr. EsTEP. I admit that. Something is due the administration of 
 the Crow Reservation also, I think, and it is my business there to see 
 there is none of those things, and I have been over the reservation time 
 and time again, and I have men who — it is subdistricted into smaller 
 districts — and I have men whose duty it is to look after those things 
 and who are in communication with me frequently, and I 
 
 Senator White. What I mean is, when you are before a com- 
 mittee of the Senate, an employee of the Government, that you 
 ought .to be respectful to its members. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I am. 
 
 Senator White. And to those who are before it. 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I have the utmost respect for the members. 
 
 Senator Thompson. How large a reservation is this ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. This reservation is about 90 miles long and 60 miles 
 wide and contains about two and one-half million acres of land. 
 
 Senator Thompson. About how many Indians are there on there ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Seventeen hundred, in round numbers. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Scattered aJl over it? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Then it is almost impossible for you to see 
 it aU very often, is it not; to see all of them? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I am over it probably once a month. I have been in 
 the Pryor district four or five different times. That is about 85 
 miles away. We have got about 300 or 400 Indians over there, and 
 i have been through that valley from one end to the other. 
 
 Senator Thompson. It is pretty rough country, is it not ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. The valley is narrow. 
 
 Senator Thompson. I mean the territory generally is rough, is it 
 not? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. It is rough getting to it. There is a vast deal of the 
 country between the Big Horn VaUey and the Pryor Valley where 
 there are no Indians at all. 
 
 Senator Thompson. How do you go? You can not go by auto- 
 mobile or anything like that, can you ? 
 
 Mr. EsTEP. I have. I usually go around. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I wish to ask you a question, Mr. Estep, about 
 that fencing. The Indians are authorized to cut posts on the tribal 
 lands. Have the Indians we are speaking of horses, as a rule ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Oh, yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Do they have their own horses with which they 
 can draw the posts ? 
 
 Mr. Estep. Yes, .sir; and we are also at various times buymg 
 horses for them. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Have you, Mr. Sloan, any interest m this matter 
 
 at all? , , „ 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Absolutely none, except to see to the general welfare 
 
 of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Gronna. That is all the mterest you have ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Absolutely all I have. 
 
 Senator Thompson. How long have you been interested m the 
 Indians ? 
 
60 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. All my life. I am a member of an Indian tribe mySelf. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Have you been taking an active part in the 
 administration of their affairs ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I have, a generally active part; all those that have 
 been within my reach; I have been actively engaged in looking aftet 
 Indian affairs. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Sloan, you may resume your statement. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. A story that came to me I think, probably, will iQus- 
 trate one of the points I want to reach more particularly than any 
 other. An old Indian couple came to me and said they were the 
 owners of allotments adjoining the railroad right of way. They had 
 their trust patents with them and said the cattlemen had put loading 
 chutes upon their land and had held their cattle there for loading; 
 that while they were in process of loading the agent was present, and 
 they asked him about being paid for the use of their lands. He 
 asked them if they had built^he railroad track, the locomotive, the 
 yards, etc., and when they said they had not, he told them they were 
 not entitled to anything; that while the Government might have 
 promised them the land it did not belong to them, and might never 
 belong to them. They said that prior to that time 
 
 Senator White. Whose cattle were these you speak of being loaded 
 there ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. They were Spear Bros.' cattle. 
 
 Senator Lane. Were they lessees ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Yes; permittees, rather. They said that prior to that 
 time Spear Bros, had paid them without any request on their part at 
 all, a fair compensation, and that finally after the agent had gone 
 they did pay them, but that it was less than they had paid them 
 previous to that time. 
 
 Now, then, that seems to me as illustrative of the disposition to- 
 ward the Indian on that reservation, and it is illustrative of the dis- 
 position toward the Indian too generally on the reservations that I 
 visited. 
 
 Senator White. Did you find any bond of sympathy between the 
 agent and the Indians? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. On the Crow Reservation it seemed to be lacking abso- 
 lutely, because they told me they could not get the ear of the agent; 
 that he was coarse in his talk to them, and arbitrary and overbearing, 
 and it was very unpleasant for them to have to go to him at all. 
 
 Senator White. What intelligence have those Indians 1 
 
 Mr. Sloan. They are very intelligent within their experience. 
 Upon our reservation a physician, in bringing about a sanitary condi- 
 tion, said that the Indians observed the rmes of sanitation and all 
 the requirements with respect to the care of sick people, etc., the same 
 as the better element of the white people on the reservation did; if 
 anything, they did it a little better. I think there is very much the 
 same class of Indians on Crow Reservation as on Omaha Reserva- 
 tion, except for the fact that the Omahas have lived more directly 
 in contact with civilization than the Crow Indians have, and there 
 would only be that difference. If anything, that difference would 
 be in favor of the Indian, because he would stand upon his own 
 inherent Indian custom as to life and sanitation as he had learned it 
 before, and not be a follower of fashion. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 61 
 
 Senator White. What about the Indian council; did you hear 
 anything said about the nonrecognition of the Indian council, or the 
 desirability, from the Indians' standpoint, of having a council, and 
 having it recognized ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. They desire to have a council, but said they could not 
 get any recognition of council proceedings, and they were prevented 
 from holding a council. I Imow that practice to be true on several 
 other reservations where I went. I had this experience upon the 
 Blackfeet Reservation. I went to the Blackfeet Reservation with a 
 delegate who had visited the city here, and who, when he went back, 
 wished to tell his people what he had done. He had been instructed 
 also when the returned to tell his people what he had done here. 
 We got there in the evening about 8 o'clock, just at dusk, and we 
 were met by a delegation of more than 200 full-blood Indians. They 
 had their drums with them, and did everything they could for us, and 
 as nicely as they could. The next day they met at the agency, at 
 the council room, and wanted to hold a council and hear from their 
 delegate who had been sent here, and the agent would not permit 
 them to do so. He directed the policemen to fill their cartridge 
 belts with cartridges and resist any attempt that they made to get 
 into the council house. The matter went so far that one of the leaders 
 got up on the porch and said it was their property, their home, and 
 their council house, and they had the right to do as they pleased, 
 and if the agent interfered with them, they would put him out. 
 I went in and spoke to the agent and asked him if they were to hold a 
 council; that they had requested me to speak for them, and I did 
 not care to do so without permission of the official in charge. He 
 said, "I am not going to let them hold a council to-day at all, but I 
 will call a council two or three days later, and I want you present 
 then." I went out among them 
 
 Senator White. Did he give any reason why the council should 
 not be held that day ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Absolutely none at all. I went out among them and 
 found that it was necessary to quiet them, and I did so, and finally I 
 got them to agree to wait. That was the experience that IVIr. Robert 
 Hamilton and I had when we got to the Blackfeet Reservation. 
 About that time I got a telegram from the Commissioner of Indian 
 Affairs which directed me not to attempt to hold a council with the 
 Blackfeet Indians, or to incite them to make trouble, and to inform 
 Mr. Hamilton to the same effect. 
 
 Senator White. Had you done anything to incite them to make 
 trouble ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Absolutely nothing at all. 
 
 Senator Lane. I wish to say right here that Mr. Hamilton, it 
 seems, was delegated by the Indians to come to this committee and 
 represent on the part oi his people that they were in a starving and 
 destitute condition; that their condition was grave and serious. He 
 started from there, and at the next station, or the second station 
 below, the one that they take — what is the name of it ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Cut Bank. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes, Cut Bank — ^he was pulled off the train under 
 the instructions of the superintendent, he and two other men who 
 were to come with him, who had been elected as delegates. He made 
 
62 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 his escape and got down to the water tank, and waited until the 
 train came. He intended to come here and make representations 
 that those people were in destitute condition. Examination after- 
 wards — a personal examination by himself and by a representative 
 of the Government, one of the inspectors, proved that that had really 
 been their condition. They were in a state of fearful destitution. 
 
 Senator White. What did you find with reference to any bond of 
 sympathy between the Indians and the agent ? 
 
 Senator Lane. I merely reported on what I saw myself. I did 
 not look into that. The Indians were not in sympathy with him. 
 They were very much opposed to him. He has been removed since, I 
 am told. But at any rate this Indian had had difficulty in coming 
 here and afterwards he was specially singled out and looked over and 
 report made on him, a special report to the department, and I have 
 been informed, and I think it is true, they were instructed to look 
 this fellow over and follow him dovni and give him a bad character 
 in order to make a record against him for the department. The 
 Indians informed me that they were afraid to make reports; that 
 they were afraid they would bring down on their heads punishment. 
 That condition prevailed on that agency and does to-day. 
 
 Senator White. You astonish me. 
 
 Senator Lane. Well, it is true, and it can be proved by evidence. 
 It will not be denied. 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from Wisconsin, Mr. La Follette, sug- 
 gests an amendment, and the draft of it as it is handed to me is as 
 follows : 
 
 At the end of the Crow item, after the figures on line 18, insert the following: "Pro- 
 vided, That hereafter no tribal grazing lands or permit on the Crow Beservation shall 
 be approved by the Secretary of the Interior without first procuring the consent of a 
 majority of the members of the duly elected Crow Council." 
 
 I understand the department has no objection to that. 
 
 Senator Lane. I suggest, "which council shall be elected without 
 any undue influence being exercised." 
 
 Senator White. That was specifically suggested by me that thej 
 have a council of their own selection. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; free and open. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. They want a regularly called council. 
 
 The Chairman. By "a" majority of the members instead of "the." 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That will be satisfactory — "duly elected and regu- 
 larly called." That wiU be entirely agreeable to the department. 
 
 The Chairman. The amendment will then read as follows: 
 
 Provided, That hereafter no tribal grazing lease or permit on the Crow Eeservatioii 
 shall be approved by the Secretary of the Interior without first procuring the consent 
 of a majority of the members of a duly elected. and regularly called council. 
 
 Senator Lane. "A council regularly called by the Indians." 
 
 Mrs. Grey. Do not put in "duly elected." They do not know 
 what that means. 
 
 Senator Lane. No ; the council regularly caUed by the Indians. 
 
 The Chairman. "By a council regularly called by the said Indians." 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Do we not want to recognize a council that has been 
 duly elected by the Indians ? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. That would be a business committee. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 63 
 
 Senator White. Mrs. Grey says they do not know what that means. 
 
 Mrs. Geet. That is a business committee. 
 
 The Chairman. You do not want to get an interloper in there. 
 
 Senator White. Suppose we say "caUed by the Indians." They 
 understand that language. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. "Duly elected" would be a business committee. 
 
 Senator Lane. I suggest the words "a council regidarly called by 
 the Indians." 
 
 The Chairman. "A council regularly called by said Indians." 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to and the item as amended was 
 agreed to.) 
 
 Senator White. Mr. Sloan, before you take your seat, I want you 
 to describe something about the habitations of those Indians, the 
 houses they live in. What are they ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. You mean on the Crow Reservation? 
 
 Senator White. On the Crow Reservation. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I saw a number of log houses and a number of frame 
 houses. Most of them were built in the shelter of the breaks in the 
 lulls along the creeks 
 
 Senator White. I am not so much interested in the material as I 
 am as to whether they afford comfort. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. They do not. They are too small, which makes them 
 insanitary, and the manner in which they have to close them in the 
 wintertime makes them the worst kind of traps for tuberculosis. 
 
 Senator White. How many persons are there to a room, and what 
 is the size of the room ? Give us some views upon that line. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. In several of the houses in which I went the beds 
 were spread down and occupied all the room. Where there was 
 more than one room, two or three rooms, it was all occupied by bed 
 space 
 
 Senator White. When you say the bed was spread down, what do 
 you mean by that — pallets ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Some of them were pallets. Some of them had bed- 
 steads. They put down the beds on the floor, and when they went 
 to bed practically aU the floor space was occupied. 
 
 Senator White. How about ventilation ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. The ventilation was very bad, because the houses were 
 not built with regard to any ventilation. On account of the extreme 
 cold weather they close the houses very tight. 
 
 Senator White. They must have windows. Do they close them in 
 the summer time ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. The trouble with regard to the windows is that usually 
 they are a single sash, and they batten them up as tight as possible, 
 and if they need air they open the doors. In that respect the houses 
 are very bad. 
 
 Senator White. How are they provided with cooking utensils ? 
 Did you take any notice of that ? 
 
 Mr. SLOAi^^. Some of them were very well provided. I remember 
 two or three houses to which I went where they had a large range 
 and all the usual cooking utensils, but in others they had old broken 
 stoves and were doing some of their cooking on fires outside. The 
 •worst condition I saw was on the Blackfeet Reservation. 
 
 Senator White. How about the bedclothing ? 
 
ft4 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BII4.. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. There were two conditions with regard to that. Those 
 who were well-to-do had excellent bedclothing bed quilts that had 
 been quilted in the regular way and some of them looked very nice. 
 Some that were needy had very soiled bedclothing and it was in bad 
 condition. 
 
 Senator White. Did there seem to be a sufRcient quantity of it? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I would say not, in several instances. 
 
 Senator White. What kind of bed did they place upon the floor? 
 
 Ml'. Sloan. They put down a large number of comforts or quilts. 
 
 Senator White. No mattresses ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. No mattresses. Some of them had beds with mat- 
 tresses; some had folding beds. 
 
 Senator White. I am talking about those that were put on the 
 floor. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. They had no mattresses, those that were down on the 
 floor. 
 
 Senator White. How about their drinking water? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. The water out there is very good; there are mountain 
 streams, and the water is clear and cold. 
 
 Senator White. How about the firewood ; they bum wood, I sup- 
 pose? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Some of them haul their wood from the mountains, I 
 suppose. I was just trying to recollect whether it occurred upon the 
 Blackfeet Reservation or if it was on the Crow Reservation. My 
 recollection now is that some of them said thoy hauled their wood 
 from the mountains on the Crow Reservation. 
 
 Senator White. How far away? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Eight or ten miles. 
 
 Senator White. They haul wood that far? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Do all of them have teams? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I think practically all the Crows have teams; either 
 they have teams themselves or their friends have. There are a great 
 many horses out there. A great many of them are good horsemen 
 and good cattlemen — some of the mixed bloods. I think the man 
 who was pointed out to me as being the most skillful horse breaker 
 and rider was a full-blood Indian, and I saw a number who were cer- 
 tainly experts at all kinds of handliug of wild horses, and cattle also, 
 for that matter. 
 
 Senator White. Did you see any conveniences with reference" to 
 schools — ^choolhouses ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I noticed one or two public schools at which some 
 Indian children were attending. I did not stop at the agency nor 
 at the boarding school, and I can not say about the conditions there. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there anything further that you desire to ask 
 Mr. Sloan? 
 
 Senator White. I do not desire to ask anything further. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I would simply like to close my statement with this 
 idea: On the Blackfeet Reservation the full-blood Indians are living 
 in a barren, desolate part of the reservation. As an illustration, one 
 Indian man with a family of several children pointed out a hill and 
 said, "That is about the center of my allotment. I had 1,500 acres 
 there," and in that 1,500 acres there was not half an acre upon which 
 you could raise potatoes. That grass that grew upon it would take 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 65 
 
 about 30 acres to feed to a horse or a cow. In that part of the reser- 
 Yation where I went, where the full bloods are located, I traveled 40 
 miles, making a round trip of 80 miles over that kind of country. All 
 of it the worst land on the reservation was where the full-blood Indians 
 were located, and I saw four cows on that trip. During part of the 
 time I had a pair of glasses and I could see a considerable distance 
 over the hillsides and up the sides of the mountains, and what I saw 
 in two days' travel were four head of cattle. I found an Indian man 
 lying on his back. He had hig leg broken below the knee; he had 
 been kicked by a horse and it was done up in a rawhide casing. I 
 asked him who did it, and he said an Indian who lived up the creek. 
 I asked him how long it had been and he said IS days smce he was 
 hurt, and that during that time he had not been visited by either a 
 physician nor an agency employee. There were three agency physi- 
 cians at the agency at the time under pay and salary from the United 
 States Government to look after those Indians. 
 
 Senator White. Do you know who they are; can you give us their 
 names ^ 
 
 Mr. Sloan. I can not. One was Dr. Ellis. As to the others, I do 
 not know their names. There was some trouble between the agent 
 and the physicians at the time, and it finally resulted in the dis- 
 missal of three doctors, as I understand, and I think the agent who 
 was in charge has been suspended. I asked that Indian what he had 
 to hve on, and he said, "Right now my wife and children are out 
 picking sour berries; that is all I have except the little that the neigh- 
 bors bring in to me." 
 
 The houses are little log huts, the smallest I have ever seen among 
 the Indians, and as an illustration, I think White Plume, an old Indian 
 about SO years of age, had one of those little log huts. There was no 
 floor in .it and the roof was covered with dirt and the sides were 
 chinked with dirt. The roof had rotted through until there were holes 
 in it, and the sides were in bad shape; the floor was wet and muddy 
 on account of the rain that had fallen through. The bedding con- 
 sisted of nothing but a few dirty comforts that were worn through, 
 with the cotton showing, and that was laid on the bare ground. 
 
 Senator White. Do you mean to say that the floor was the ground 
 itself? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Absolutely the ground itself, and that is true of most 
 of the huts in which the full-blood Indians live on the Blackfeet 
 Reservation. This old man was receiving rations for four. He said 
 that what they got did not last them more than two days, and it was 
 supposed to last two weeks. The ration of beans, I think, consisted 
 of 115 in number for one daily ration. 
 
 Senator White. Had he counted them? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. One hundred and fifteen beans. 
 
 Senator White. Did he count the beans? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Yes; that is the size of the ration up there. They have 
 got used to it. They know it perfectly. 
 
 Senator Lane. Fifteen hundred beans for a week's supply. That 
 is 50 httle white navy beans apiece a day for rations — four-tenths of 
 an ounce — without any bacon or pork. 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Those Indians are in absolutely the worst condition 
 of any Indians I know about. 
 
 82833 — YOL 2 — 15 5 
 
66 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 ]\Ir. Meeitt. I would like to ask Mr. Sloan if we are not issuing, also, 
 in addition to the beans, other rations'? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. They were not at that time. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. Linnen is present; he has been on that reserva- 
 tion, and I will ask him what action did the department take to issue 
 rations to those Indians. 
 
 Mr. Lane. That was afterwards. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Linnen. I made a visit in the -Heart Butte district, the same 
 place that Mr. Sloan is talking about, and T found conditions very 
 similar to what he has described in relation to how the people are 
 living. I found also that very few of those Indians were at that time 
 being rationed. The few that were had to go to the old agency, about 
 15 miles away, to get rations. But imiUiediately following my visit 
 there, the next day, there were several loads of rations sent out, and 
 from that time I was informed that the Indians who were needj- were 
 being properly rationed. 
 
 Senator White. Who was the agent there? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. McFattridge was the agent. He has been sus- 
 pended, and Mr. Ellis is now the special agent in charge. 
 
 Senator White. Was he only suspended ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Mr. McFattridge was suspended. 
 
 Senator White. Not removed ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. He was suspended. 
 
 Senator White. I say, was he not removed ? You say he was just 
 suspended ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Charges have been filed against Mr. McFattridge, and 
 he is now answering those charges. Under the law we are required to 
 file charges against an employee under the civil service, and he is 
 given an opportunity to answer those charges. He has been sus- 
 pended without pay, and another man has been placed on the 
 reservation. 
 
 Senator Lane. With regard to Mr. Linnen's report, I heard from 
 the agency after he went there that in a certain district there was 
 bacon and beans and pretty good rations given to many of those 
 Indians. I received a letter, dated February 15, in which one Indian 
 states that they have stopped those rations, and many of them are 
 getting but 2 pounds of meat a week and some of them none, and 
 they are hungry again. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I ask that that letter be given to us, in order that 
 we may take it up in the office. 
 
 Senator Lane. I will tell you what I have found. I have a great 
 many letters in my office, some of them that I have been afraid to 
 report to your office, because you send them direct to the agent, and 
 it is a complaint against him, and down comes the agent on to the 
 head of the Indian. That has been my experience in the past. I will 
 hand it to you in confidence, if you will attend to it, but not other- 
 wise. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We will be glad to do so. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not want the Indians to be abused if they are 
 stating what is the truth. 
 
 Mr. Linnen. If youvdU pardon me, I want to make one otherremark, 
 and that is that the three doctors that Mr. Sloan complained of were 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 67 
 
 aU removed from the service prior to my making the investigation 
 for the very cause that he has stated, namely, neglect of duty. 
 
 Mrs. Kellogg. There is a sentence here that I wish to modify. 
 The agent, Mr. Estep, said that the Indians had tuberculosis. That 
 is true, but it relates to the Indians who are under Government super- 
 vision. All of the Indians in the hills, who have taken themselves 
 away from the supervision of the Federal Government, are healthy 
 and manly men, not cowards, and not sick people. 
 
 Mrs. Grey. And where there are cases of trachoma on the Crow 
 Reservation, they took up the healthy children and forced them into 
 the schools. It was the worst crime that was ever committed. 
 
 Mrs. Kellogg. Among the 3,600 Cherokees in the hiUs of eastern 
 Oklahoma there are two cases of tuberculosis, and they are well 
 handled. 
 
 The Chairman. Has any other Senator any matter that he desires 
 to bring to the attention of the committee ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Just one word, and then I will close. As soon as I 
 struck the Blackfeet Reservation the police force were detailed to 
 look after me, and they kept me in constant siirveillance during the 
 whole time I was there. 
 
 Senator White. What reservation was that? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. The Blackfeet, and when the mixed-blood Indian 
 women of the agency wished to give me a banquet in the evening, 
 they were informed by the agent in charge that they must not do so. 
 That is the kind of administration the Blackfeet Indians have been 
 receiving, and the condition with respect to the full bloods is that of 
 absolute destitution, want, and the worst kind of degradation. 
 
 Senator White. And subserviency ? 
 
 Mr. Sloan. Now, if those people are to be saved, they need a differ- 
 ent administration. They need somebody there with some sympathy 
 for them, and unless there is some one who can go there with that 
 sympathy, the same thing will be repeated. 
 
 I wish to speak particularly with regard to the police force following 
 me, in the manner they did. At the close of my remarks here a few 
 moments ago Mr. Estep said to me, "I understood the police were after 
 you and put you off of the Blackfeet Reservation." I feel that what 
 he said indicated that if he had had the opportunity that is what he 
 would have done with me. It shows the disposition. That is the 
 kind of sympathy that the administration is giving to the Indians, 
 and I do not think you can expect anything for them as long as there 
 is administration of that kind. 
 
 Senator Lane. I simply wish to say that I went to the Blackfeet 
 Agency as a member of the joint commission to investigate conditions. 
 Large numbers of them came in and discussed their personal affairs, 
 and it was not long before I was informed by them that the police 
 were threatening them with arrest if they came near me with their 
 complaints, or came to any meetings; that the meetings were illegal, 
 and they could be arrested, and that intimidated them. 
 
 Senator White. And their funds are being used to employ and 
 pay for this domination of those people. 
 
 Senator Lane. I guess so. They are the people representing them. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there anything further upon this proposition? 
 
68 INDIANS APPHOPRIATIOX BILL. 
 
 Mrs. Gray. I think there ought to be some restriction placed upon 
 the expenditure of their funds. There was over a million spent last 
 year, and I think every bit of it was illegal. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is a dispute about that. The department 
 thinks they are spending the money legally. You and others think 
 it is being done illegally, and it is hard for me personally, to decide. 
 But that is a question that we ought to settle. I do not know that 
 we can do it here and now. Can not the joint commission go into 
 that matter with a filed complaint setting forth the facts ? 
 
 Mrs. Gray. They have refused to go into it. 
 
 Senator Lane. I do not think they will if this committee asks them 
 to do it. If this committee asks them to check that up, I think they 
 will do it. 
 
 The Chairman. I feel the same way. I think the joint commission 
 ought to go into it, as they have the larger affairs of the Indians under 
 consideration. 
 
 Senator Owen. And they have more time. 
 
 Senator White. I suggest that that course he taken. 
 
 The Chairman. I will be very glad to prepare a letter specifically 
 requesting that thej' do it. 
 
 Senator Lane. I wish you would do so, and I assure you that as 
 far as I am concerned I will give all the time necessary to the matter, 
 and I feel sure that others will also. 
 
 CEDED LANDS, CHIPPEWA INDIANS, MINNESOTA. 
 
 Senator Lane. Mr. Chairman, an Indian handed me the other day 
 a communication in relation to an item which appears on page 30 of 
 the bill which sets aside a reservation with the Red Lake Indian 
 Reservation in Minnesota and creates a forestry reserve; there are a 
 lot of provisions in it; that it shall be administered by the Secretary 
 of the Interior, and so forth. It covers two or three pages of the bill. 
 Do you know anything about that, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 'Kix. Meritt. Do you mean the conditions at the Red Lake Forest? 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes; y>'hy do you want to create that into a forest 
 reserve ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That legislation was incorporated in the bill at the 
 request of Senator Clapp. 
 
 Senator Lane. Here is what the Indian says: 
 There is now pending before this committee a bill entitled-— 
 
 Senator White. Before you read that, may I ask if the Indians 
 have been consulted about that, Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I do not know whether the Indians have been con- 
 sulted about it or not. There is a large acreage of very fine timber 
 on that reservation, and it was the wish of the Senators from Minne- 
 sota that this timber should be handled as a forest reserve along the 
 conservation hnes. 
 
 Senator White. Does that mean it is to be cut? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It means that it is to be cut and used for the benefit 
 of the tribe. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is, the stumpage, logs, piles, etc. The Indian 
 states as follows: 
 
 There is now pending before this committee a bill entitled "To provide for the 
 establishment of a forest reserve within the Red Lake Indian Reservation Minne- 
 fiota. "- ' 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 69 
 
 Without going into the legal phase of the question which surrounds the right of occu- 
 pancy, the Red Lake Chippewas have to the so-called "Red Lake Reservation" the 
 facts are these: 
 
 The Red Lake Indians, some 1,500 in number, occupy a portion of the northern 
 part of Minnesota known as the Red Lake Indian Reservation, consistinc; of some 
 416.000 acres, which has never been ceded to the United States. They have extensive 
 improvements upon these lands where they have always lived and where their parents 
 and grandparents lived before them, especially is this the case upon the lands which 
 the bill purposes to set aside as a forest reserve, as all the Indians, except a very few, 
 reside on and all their improvements are located thereon, -which land is described as 
 follows: 
 
 "Township one hundred and fifty and one hundred and fifty-one north, ranges 
 thii-ty-two, thirty-three, thirty-four, thirty-five and thirty-six west, and townships 
 one hundred and fifty-two and one hundred and fifty-three north, ranges thirty-two, 
 thii-ly-three, and thirty-four west of the fifth principal meridian, except the lands 
 in to\vnship one hundred and fifty-one north, range thirty-six west, which lies north 
 of the north line of sections twenty-six to thirty, inclusive, and except all lands 
 within sections four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and eighteen, in township one hun- 
 dred and fifty-three north, range thirty-four west. " 
 
 The amount of land which'it is proposed to take from the Red Lake Indians for a 
 forestry reserve will be approximately 102,000 acres. 
 
 Under the act of January 14, 1889, each Indian of the Red Lake Reservation was 
 entitled to an allotment of eighty acres each, but the officers of the Government have 
 never made the allotments to the Indians under said act. 
 
 Thereafter, on the 10th day of March, 1902, the United States Indian inspector, 
 James McLaughlin, concluded an agreement with the Indians of the Red Lake Res- 
 ervation, in the State of Minnesota, which agreement provided for the relinquishment 
 of lands amounting to some 256,152 acres. 
 
 The agreement also provided for an allotment of land to the Indians under the fol- 
 lowing provision: 
 
 "Article IV. It is further agreed that the said Indians belonging on said Red Lake 
 Reservation, Minnesota, shall possess their diminished reservation independent of 
 all other bands, Chippewa tribe of Indians, and shall be entitled to allotments thereon 
 of 160 acres each, of either agricultural or pine land, the different class of land to -be 
 apportioned as equitably as possible among the allottees." 
 
 Thereafter Congress ratified the agreement above referred to and enacted the same 
 into a law, which was approved February 20, 1904. 
 
 A large number of the Indians have already made appUcation for allotments and 
 others have made tentative selections of allotments under the said law, which land 
 they are now occupying and have made improvements thereon anticipating that the 
 Government will carry out the pro -visions of said law and allot them the land in con- 
 formity thereto. 
 
 Under Senate bill No. 7179, -which -will be found on Calendar of Business, calendar 
 day, Monday, February 15, 1915, No. 873, the contents of this bill are also in the bill 
 H. R. No. 20150, being the Senate Committee print of the Senate Committee on 
 Indian Affairs, commencing on page 27, Hne 20, and ending on page 31, line 17. This 
 is all new matter inserted in said bill by the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. 
 You -will note that under the bill proposed that the rights of the Indians to select 
 allotments under the agreement made and afterwards enacted in a law by the Govern- 
 ment is taken from them -without they having had an opportunit;: to be heard, although 
 a request ha-ving been made to the Indian Department for authority to have a delega- 
 tion of Indians come to this city to be heard in opposition to this measure. 
 
 There are about 1,500 Indians on the Red Lake Reservation, each entitled to 160 
 acres. This will take approximately 240,000 acres, practically all of the land on the 
 Red Lake Reservation outside of the land proposed for forestry reserve, this being 
 swamp land from which the Indians would have to select their allotments, while the 
 land sought to be made forestry reserve land consists of some fine agricultural land. 
 
 OBJECTIONS TO BILL. 
 
 First. Deprives the Indians of permanent occupancy of the land and improvements 
 which they now have and on which they now live and in lieu thereof compels them, 
 in order to retain their present homes, to accept a lease on their own land by giving 
 them a permit for, a limited time of occupancy, a small tract of land. 
 
 Second. Deprives them of the pri-vilege of taking allotments of land as pro-vided 
 under the act of February 20, 1904, which gave them both agricultural and timber 
 
70 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 land and makes them accept 160 acres of swamp land as an allotment, wMcli will 
 never be any use to them, as it can not be farmed in its present status. 
 
 Third. The proposed bill creating forestry reserve has not been submitted to the 
 Indians and the bill does not provide for its submission, which should be before they 
 are required to give up their homes for forestry purposes. 
 
 Fourth. Upon the land proposed as a forestry reserve there is considerable pine and 
 other timber and the Secretary is authorized to sell stumpage, logs, piling, poles, 
 posts, pulpwood, and other marketable products without placing any minimum price 
 thereon and without placing any safeguards around the manner of sale. 
 
 Fifth. The Secretary of the Interior is also given the right to expend the funds 
 which shall accrue from the sale of timber without limitation and especially with 
 respect to paying for any permanent improvements that a lessee may make upon the 
 lands of the forest reserve. It seems quite reasonable to believe that these personal 
 improvements would be of no especial benefit to the Indians, but would simply be a 
 source of expense to them merely for the pleasure of summer tourists. 
 
 The bill is most remarkable for its iniquities. It proposes to take from the Indians 
 their homes and gardens in violation of the provisions of the act of January 14, 1889, 
 entitled "An act for the relief and civilization of the Chippewa Indians' in the State 
 of Minnesota," and also the provisions of the act of 1904, under which the McLaughlin 
 agreement was made. 
 
 Sixth. It takes away the rights of the Indians and gives others the right to lease 
 their lands for grazing, camping, and other purposes. 
 
 For the information of Congress I will state what position this leaves me in if this 
 becomes a law. 
 
 In 1887 my parents located on lot 2 and the SW. J of the SE. i, section 23, T. 151, 
 R. 34, and they are now living there, and it has been my intention to take this as a 
 
 Eart of my allotment, as I have made many improvements thereon, consisting of a 
 ouse, bam, and I have fenced in over forty acres and have cleared about thirty of 
 them, which I have in crop each year, raising thereon necessary fodder for cattle and 
 hogs, and I have filed my application with the agency official at the agency office to 
 have this land allotted to me under the act of February 20, 1S04. If this bill becomes 
 a law I am deprived of taking this tract as my allotment, on which I have lived the 
 greater part of my life, and I am also deprived of taking the remainder of my allot- 
 ment in the timber, as provided by said law of February 20, 1904. 
 
 Should this forestry bill become a law, I would be compelled to go into court to 
 protect my legal rights at a great expense to myself. 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 Nathan J. Head. 
 
 The item that is in the bill begins on page 30 and runs over two 
 or three pages of the bill. I do not know anything about it, as I 
 was not here when it was passed, and I should not have thought 
 anything about it but for what the Indian says. If what he says 
 is true, that it takes away all the valuable and good land and com- 
 pels these Chippewa Indians to live in swampy land, and that they 
 will have nothing to say about the way the money is expended 
 which is derived from the sale of the land and timber, it is wrong, 
 and it ought to go out of the bill. Senator Clapp is not here. I 
 understand that Senator Nelson has a bill in the Senate on the 
 calendar, which accompUshes the same purpose. I think this com- 
 mittee ought to raise an objection to it and put it out of the biU. 
 
 The Chairman. It is subject to a point of order. 
 
 Mr. Kellogg. The Indians up there have been protesting here to 
 Senator Clapp and the Indian Office against this section which has 
 been put in the bill, and I think Mr. Meritt wiU say the same thing. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I understand that protests have been filed against 
 this legislation, and we have no objection to its going out. It is 
 subject to a point of order, I understand. 
 
 Senator White. Certainly the Indians ought to be heard. 
 
 Senator LaIne. I move that it be stricken out until such time as 
 the Indians consent to it. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 71 
 
 Senator Gronna. Would it not be better to let it be passed over 
 until Senator Clapp returns to the committee ? If the pomt of order 
 is made against it, it would go out on the floor of the Senate, and I 
 think that due respect to Senator Clapp requires that that action 
 should be taken. 
 
 Senator White. But we are reporting this bill in favor of this propo- 
 sition. That is the trouble about it. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes. Of course, I do not want to be disrespectful 
 to Senator Clapp. 
 
 Senator White. And I too want to show Senator Clapp every con- 
 sideration, but I do not want the bill to go in carrying with it my 
 approval as to this item. 
 
 The Chairman. It had better go out, then. Do you move that it 
 be eliminated? 
 
 Senator Page. I move that it go out, as long as we are going to 
 report the bill. We may reciu: to it when Senator Clapp returns. He 
 may then bring it up. If we are going to pass upon the bill this after- 
 noon I suggest that we let it go out with the understanding that we 
 wiU take it up when Senator Clapp returns to the committee. 
 
 Senator White. Yes; I do not want it to go in with my approval. 
 Of course, I may change my mind after hearing Senator Clapp. Mr. 
 Chairman, is there anything further for the consideration of the com- 
 mittee ? 
 
 The Chairman. There is nothing else. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I desire to withdraw my motion to strike out 
 the section on page 38. 
 
 Senator White. That was an amendment, as I understand, to the 
 motion offered by Senator Owen. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Yes. I want to be perfectly frank with the 
 committee and state that I made the motion in order to give the 
 Senator from Oregon (Mr. Lane) and others who wanted to be heard 
 an opportunity to make their statements. I withdraw the motion. 
 
 Senator White. Mr. Chairman, I think the motion is now upon 
 reporting the bUl. 
 
 RED LAKE INDIAN RESERVATION, MINN., FOREST RESERVE. 
 
 Senator La Follette having returned to the room 
 
 The Chairman. Senator La FoUette, the Senator from Oregon has 
 called our attention to an amendment proposed by Senator Clapp, 
 which creates a forest reserve within the Red Lake Reservation, 
 Minn. It is subject to a point of order, and if the point is going to be 
 raised, we want to know it. 
 
 Senator White. Mr. Head, from that reservation, is present, and 
 I would like to hear him. 
 
 STATEMEK'T OF BTATHAN HEAD, OF EED LAKE, MINN. 
 
 The Chairman. Where do you live ? 
 Mr. Head. Red Lake, Minn. 
 
 Senator Lane. TeU the committee what your objection is to this 
 provision. I have read your statement to the committee. 
 
72 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Mr. Head. I think it will be a great injustice to the people of Red 
 Lake to have this proposed legislation become a law for the reasons 
 I have stated in my brief. 
 
 The Chairman. Is your tribe opposed to this legislation regarding 
 the creation of a forest reserve on the Red Lake Reservation ? 
 
 Mr. Head. Yes; I have a telegram from the tribe making strong 
 objections to the legislation proposed. 
 
 Senator White. Have they ever had an opportunity to be heard ia 
 opposition to it ? 
 
 Mr. Head. Not that I know of. 
 
 The Chairman. They sent you down here to appear before the 
 committee in opposition to this amendment, did they ? 
 
 Mr. Head. No, sir; I only came down as a delegate from the Chip- 
 
 Eewas of Minnesota. After coming here, I noticed that this measure 
 ad been called to the attention of the committee, and I notified 
 them that if it went to the commissioner here the delegation has 
 been authorized to visit Washington. They did not tell me that it 
 was not. I have received telegrams on the subject. I showed a 
 telegram that I had received to Senator Lane, in opposition. 
 
 The Chairman. You do not want a forest reserve created out of 
 your timberland ? 
 
 Mr. Head. We do not want a forest reserve. 
 
 Senator Lane. You said a portion of it was in the swamp. You 
 will be compelled to go to the swamps to live ? 
 
 Mr. Head. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. What are you going to do with the timber there? 
 
 Mr. Head. The idea of the Chippewas of Red Lake is to sell the 
 timber and to divide the receipts as equitably as possible. If this 
 becomes a law, the department will have absolute authority to spend 
 the money as they see fit, and it will not be divided among the tribes. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Do you understand that the department now has no 
 authority imder existing law to sell green timber on your reservation ? 
 
 Mr. Head. I do. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The department now has no authority to sell any 
 green timber on Red Lake Reservation. 
 
 Senator White. This would take it away from them and let it be 
 sold under this Park Reservation, as I understand it. 
 
 Senator Lane. Yes. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This proposed legislation by Senator Clapp would 
 create an Indian forest reserve, and the timber would be disposed of 
 under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior, and the proceeds 
 would be used for the benefit of the Indians. Under the existing 
 law we have no authority to seU timber, and there is a large amount 
 of timber on that reservation, and some of it should be sold because 
 the timber is overripe ; but we have no authority now under existing 
 law to sell dead and down timber. I am sure if Senator Clapp were 
 here he would agree to an amendment that would protect the allot- 
 ments within this timber area. 
 
 Mr. Head. I agree to that, Senator. That is the intention of the 
 tribe, to be entitled to the allotments for agricultural purposes. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. If the Indians were permitted to hold their allot- 
 ments within the timber area, would the l)iU otherwise be acceptable 
 to you? If this were redrafted with a provision that it shall not 
 affect any Indian allotment within the timber area, would that be 
 satisfactory ? 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 73 
 
 Mr. White. Do you mean already made ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Already made or selected. 
 
 Senator White. How will that affect you with regard to making 
 allotments in the future ? 
 
 Mr. Head. I do not believe it would affect us any, as far as that 
 IS concerned, if they authorize us to take allotments— if this forest 
 were adapted for agricultural purposes. 
 
 Senator Lane. You have no allotments now, have you? 
 
 Mr. Head. Wc never have been allotted. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. They have simply selected allotments; they have 
 tentative allotments. 
 
 Senator Owen. Why were not allotments granted to them? 
 
 ?*lr. Meritt. There is a large area of land that we expect to drain 
 that will be exceedingly valuable for agricultural purposes. It is 
 deemed inadvisable to allot the Indians within this timber area, 
 because it would cost a great deal to get the land in condition to 
 cultivate after the timber is cut off. We can drain this land for 
 less than $2 an acre, and it is admitted it wQl be worth from S40 to 
 S50 for agricultural purposes. 
 
 Senator Owen. It is your intention to locate them on the land 
 after it has been drained ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Lane. How long would it take to drain it ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We incorporated an item in our estimates this year, 
 but the estimates were materially reduced so that every one of the 
 items were cut out. It will take about $300,000 to drain this area 
 of land. It wiU cost between $1 and $2 an acre to drain it. 
 
 Senator Owen. Is that paid out of this timber ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. We expect to make it reimbursable, and take the -cost 
 out of the timber. 
 
 Senator Lane. Until you drain it they will have to go around the 
 country in gum boots ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The swamp land is not at this time available to 
 cultivation. 
 
 Senator White. There is a rule in the English law that a gentleman 
 shall not be improved out of his estate, and I think we had better 
 invoke that with respect to these Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is no such law with respect to the Indians. 
 
 Senator White. Would you prefer to have a council of your tribe 
 on this matter before it is done? 
 
 Mr. Head. If it is agreeable to the department, we would much 
 rather have it done that way. 
 
 Senator White. That is, have a council to pass upon it ? 
 
 Mr. Head. Yes, sir; it would be satisfactory to the tribe then. 
 
 Senator White. I think we had better let them have a say with 
 regard to the matter, from the standpoint of the council. They own 
 these lands and we are putting them into a forest reserve and depriv- 
 ing them of these allotments except as to the swamp land. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Not at all. 
 
 Senator White. Their tribe is being denied the right to hold a 
 council and we are making a forest reserve without consulting them 
 at all; that is the idea. 
 
 (The matter under consideration was temporarily laid aside.) 
 
74 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 FLATHEAD RESERTATION IRRIGATION PROJECT. 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Cliairman, the committee was very good to 
 me a few days ago in adopting one little amendment that I explained 
 in regard to an emergency matter that come up in regard to the Creek 
 Indians in Montana, and here is another matter that has recently 
 come to my knowledge that I think is of very great importance. It 
 will take me but a very few minutes to submit it to the committee, 
 and I shall be glad to have the committee do anything that seems 
 right, and if it approves of what I say it wiU take but a few minutes 
 to say so, and if it disapproves I imagine it will take even a less time. 
 
 I have here some correspondence which will give the history of the 
 matter, and I have the ofhcial authority for what I am asking in cor- 
 respondence with the Reclamation Service. 
 
 As you all know, with respect to the Flathead reclamation project, 
 Congress has been making appropriations for that project from year 
 to year. The current fiscal year, of course, begins on the 1st of July 
 of each year and ends on the 1st of July of the following year, and 
 these appropriations have usually been made along in the winter or 
 spring of the following year — upon the 1st of July following and then 
 run until the 30th of June next succeeding. 
 
 The Reclamation Service called attention to this state of affairs, 
 that all these expenditures have to be approved by an auditor of the 
 Government and, I think, an auditor oi the Treasury Department — 
 my letters wiU disclose — and it had been the practice from the begin- 
 ning of this project to simply appropriate so much money for the next 
 year — just appropriate it, that is ail, and say no more about it, to be 
 expended upon this project. But right along from the beginning, if 
 the Reclamation Service did not use up aU of the money in the current 
 year, from the 1st of July to the 30th of June next, it there was any 
 left unexpended on the 30th of June, the Auditor of the Treasury 
 Department had been in the unvarying habit of allowing them to con- 
 tinue to expend the unexpended balance, even though it would not 
 be expended by the end of the year for which it was appropriated. 
 They would 0. K. the expenditures and let it go on until the money 
 was exhausted just the same. The Reclamation Service has been 
 relying upon that practice. But in 1913 we appropriated $325,000, 
 to be available and to begin being spent the 1st of July, 1913, and for 
 the year ending July 1, 1914. On the 1st of July, 1914, there was in 
 round numbers $187,000 of that money that had not been expended, 
 and the Reclamation Service, supposing that in accordance with the 
 unbroken previous practice the auditor would continue to O. K. their 
 warrants or drafts on this amount, supposed they could still spend 
 it, but the auditor reversed his previous practice and all at once, it 
 seems from this correspondence, refused to O. K. the expenditure of 
 any of that $187,000 of the unexpended balance, because it had not 
 been expended within the year for which it was intended. He had 
 never done that before. He had alwaj^s been allowing them to draw 
 on it until expended, even though the year had expired, but this time 
 he would not do it. 
 
 Now, the fact is that there is $187,000 of the money appropriated 
 expended, and if they can not get it the project has simjuy lost that 
 for that project, to begin the 1st of July, 1914, that has never been 
 amount of money. I do not know why it was not expended. They 
 
INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 75 
 
 had not been able to get around to the proper expenditure of it. 
 Because of belated work that amount of money, which has already 
 been authorized and appropriated, is hung up and the Reclamation 
 Service can not get it. 
 
 Senator Page. That is for the year ending June 30, 1914? 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes, sir. It seems it was brought to the atten- 
 tion of Judge Stephens, of Texas, and it seems, furthermore, that for 
 that same year there was $33,000 of the Fort Peck appropriation 
 unused and $64,000 of the Blaclrfeet Reservation unused — all bring 
 hung up in the same manner and unexpended, and could not be 
 obtained. 
 
 It seems that Judge Stephens, of Texas, who is the chairman of the 
 Indian Affairs Committee of the House, being apprised of this, his 
 idea was to introduce a joint resolution authorizing the expenditure 
 of this unexpended balance, and I will read you his resolution: 
 
 Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of Avicrica in 
 Congress assembled. That the unexpended balances, amounting to $186,996.81, 
 $33,561.95, and SG4,295.2o, in the appropriations made in the acts approved Jun& 
 thirtieth, nineteen hundred and thirteen (Tliirty-seventh Statutes at Large, page 
 seventy-seven), making appropriations for the current and contingent expenses of the 
 Bureau of Indian Affairs, for fulfilling treaty stipulations with various Indian tribes, 
 and for other purposes, for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred 
 and fourteen, for continuing the construction of irrigation systems on the Flathead, 
 Blackfeet, and Fort Peck Indian Reservations, in the State of Montana, be, and the 
 same are hereby, reappropriated amd made available for use in such work during the 
 fiscal year nineteen hundred and fifteen, the same to be reimbursed to the United 
 States. 
 
 Now, gentlemen, I fear there is absolutely no chance for inde- 
 pendent legislation to get through both branches of Congress at 
 this late date, and it has been suggested to me that I take this course, 
 and I now ask that this legislation, or the substance of it be in- 
 corporated in this Indian appropriation bill. 
 
 Senator Page. I do not recall that we have ever gone back two 
 years to do a thing of this kind. Am I correct in that Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Heretofore these appropriations have been available 
 without specific legislation, but because of a provision contained in 
 one of the general appropriation acts it is necessary to expentl the 
 money within the year for which it was appropriated. 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Meritt knows more about this than I do. 
 
 Senator Page. It is practically going back to the years 1913 and 
 1914. It is really appropriating $300,000 more than has been esti- 
 mated for. 
 
 Senator Myers. No; we appropriated this once. 
 
 Senator Page. That is aU right, but the department has made its 
 estimates 
 
 Senator Myers. It is unused. 
 
 Senator Page. The department has made its estimate as to what 
 it wants to use next year, and we have acted upon those estimates. 
 Now, you add to this estimate $300,000 or $400,000 more. 
 
 Senator Myers. But this is money that has already been appro- 
 priated and simply not expended. Congress has given us this money 
 once and it remains hung up in the Treasury on account of some 
 different ruling in the department. 
 
 Senator Page. But for all that, the department has now made its 
 estimate of the amount it wants next year and we have passed upon 
 that. Now, we are going back not one year but two years, to take a 
 
76 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 fund that is two years old, and covered into the Treasury two years 
 ago, instead of one. 
 
 Senator Myers. All I desire is to read my official correspondence, 
 which will take but a very few minutes, and if the committee does 
 not grant my request, of course I can not help it. 
 
 Senator Page. It is a very good sized sum to bring in under a 
 joint resolution. 
 
 Senator Myers. All I ask is the action of the committee, and I 
 would like to get it, but if I can not get your favorable action I do 
 not want an opportimity to pass without my making the effort. I 
 would like to hear from Mr. Meritt upon the matter before I get through. 
 Here is my official correspondence upon the subject. This is a 
 letter from Mr. A. P. Davis, director and chief engineer, in response 
 to some inquiries that I made about the progress of the work and how 
 much would be needed, etc. He writes me giving this information: 
 
 Department of the Interiob, 
 United States Reclamation Service, 
 
 Washington, B.C., February 4, 1915. 
 Hon. H. L. Myers, 
 
 United States Senate. 
 My Dear Senator; Copy of your letter of January 20, to Mr. E. P. Tabor, has 
 been sent to me, with his reply of January 26, and comments by Mr. H. N. Savage, 
 ■of Januarj'' 28, both inclosed herewith. 
 
 The condition, as noted in these letters, is critical, and I wish to emphasize the 
 necessity of immediate consideration of the situation. 
 
 It appears that in passing upon the Indian appropriation act for the year ending 
 June 30, 1914 (38 Stat., 582), there was a change in the ruling, one which was not 
 fully appreciated until decision was made by the Comptroller of the Treasury. The 
 effect of this change was to cause to revert back to the Treasury certain portions of 
 appropriations which, under the rulings of previous years' had been available until 
 expended. 
 
 You fully appreciate the peculiar conditions existing where construction of irri- 
 gation works can be carried on most advantageously during certain seasons of the 
 year. The fiscal year is such that it terminates at the beginning or near the time 
 when greatest activity should be displayed in construction. It has been found 
 ad-\'antageous, therefore, as well as economical, to lay out the work and, if necessary, 
 execute a portion of it after the end of the fiscal year — notably in the instances where 
 the appropriations for the fiscal j'ear have not been available until too late to accom- 
 plish the best results during the season in which they have been made. 
 
 The unexpected change, unless corrected, must lead to considerable hardship 
 among the families located on the dry lands who have been confidently expecting 
 that the irrigation works would be built and have made preparations accordingly. 
 Yours, very truly, 
 
 A. P. Davis, 
 Director and Chief Engin£er. 
 
 Senator Page. Before you proceed further, may I ask if this is 
 reimbursable 1 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes, sir; all of it. 
 
 Senator Page. Have we not at this session changed this whole 
 matter and taken it out of the reimbursable feature and made it 
 different ? 
 
 Senator Myers. If you reappropriate this, or authorize its use, 
 it would come under the new plan of expenditure, would it not, 
 Mr. Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Myers. If it is incorporated in this bOl at this time it 
 would come under the new plan of expenditure. 
 
 Senator Page. It would simply restore an old appropriation. It 
 was made under the reimbursable idea. . 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 77 
 
 Senator Myers. Technically it is reappropriated by this Congress 
 under this bill. 
 
 Senator Page. You say under this biU, but you do not say so in 
 the resolution. 
 
 Senator Myers. I want it to go in as part of this bill. 
 
 Senator Page. I want to ask you another thing. You say that 
 this is an emergency appropriation. We have provided 1500,000 
 in the present bill here. 
 
 Senator Myers. It is an emergency, because we are about to lose 
 $187,000. 
 
 Senator Page. We have appropriated $500,000, have we not, for 
 this project? 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. If we pass this bill, that sum is immediately 
 available ? 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. Then why did you say there is danger that you 
 would not have money to last you from now until June ? 
 
 Senator Myers. I have not said that. Senator. 
 
 Senator Page. The money that we appropriate now becomes 
 immediately available, and therefore you will have the money just 
 the minute that this bill becomes a law. Then it is not an emergency 
 project. You AviU be short at the end of next year rather than at 
 the end of this year ? 
 
 Senator Myers. I will explain to you what I mean by emergency. 
 We have lost this $187,000. We have got to get an amendment in 
 this appropriation bill in order to get it, or it is gone forever. That 
 is what I call it — an emergency, and not only that, but a calamity. 
 
 Senator Page. You want $800,000, instead of $500,000 ? 
 
 Senator Myers. I want $500,000 now appropriated, and I want an 
 authorization or reappropriation of this $187,000, which would make 
 $687,000. . 
 
 Senator Page. Is that what you ask for ? I thought you had 
 three amoimts there. 
 
 Senator Myers. It is only for the Flathead that we are worrying 
 about. 
 
 Senator Page. But you have three amounts covering nearly 
 $300,000. 
 
 Senator Myers. If the committee is disposed to pare it down, I 
 would say give us the $187,000 for the Flathead project, and I will be 
 wilUng to let the other go, provided the committee will not give it all. 
 I am here to get what is just. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I was going to ask 
 
 Senator Myers. I have not completed my statement. I have some 
 other letters here. What did you want to ask, Senator Gronna ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. I think Senator Page has asked the question that 
 I intended to ask. 
 
 Senator Myers. I can see what prompted Senator Page's inquiry. 
 The Reclamation Service, in writing me these letters, is not so much 
 concerned in getting back the $187,000 that is lost as it is in getting 
 some money this year that will be immediately available. Here is 
 the principal point they make, that they had formed a plan to get 
 certain work done by the 1st of July of this year and they had left 
 over certain money from the previous year with which to do it. We- 
 
78 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 are constantly confronted with, new rules of the Treasury Depart- 
 ment which cut them off from that balance that they had brought 
 over for that purpose. 
 
 Senator Page. But we have taken care of you by appropriating 
 $500,000 that we have made immediately available in this bill. 
 
 Senator Myers. I would like to complete my statement in order 
 that it may be understood. I can not make it in a disconnected way. 
 As I say, they were expecting to complete this work this spring, with 
 the balance brought over from last year, and the Treasury Depart- 
 ment has cut them off fromt it. Their chief concern is that they are 
 now without funds to do this work that they have virtually promised 
 to complete in the spring. The chief concern was, of course, for me 
 to see that the money appropriated this year was made immediately 
 available. That is the point you had in mind ? 
 
 Senator Page. Exactly. 
 
 Senator Myees. I examined the bill and have found that the ap- 
 propriation for this year is made immediately available, and I also 
 spoke to Mr. Meritt about it and reassured myself that it is made 
 immediately available. It is true that it is giving them funds, pro- 
 vided the bill goes through Congress,^ with which to begin the work 
 right away as soon as the spring opens, and complete this work. 
 They have promised to have it completed by the 1st of June. It is 
 true that that overcomes the principal solicitude expressed in these 
 letters, but, gentlemen, I submit that it is only fair for Congress to 
 appropriate the $187,000, and not through some change of tactics in 
 the Treasury Department to deprive us of it and make us lose it. 
 Suppose a man owed you $187,000 and then through some techni- 
 cality tell you that it was outlawed and that he would not pay it, you 
 would think that he ought to pay it anyway. 
 
 Senator Page. You say you came here because this was an emer 
 gency matter. If you abandon the emergency feature of it, and put 
 it upon the other ground, I wiU be glad to consider it in- that way. 
 
 Senator Myers. If we do not get this money in this appropriation 
 bill it is gone, and that is the emergency. I am in a hurry to get it 
 in this bill, because this resolution will never see the light of day. 
 My emergency is to get it into this biU. 
 
 Senator Page. That is all right. 
 
 Senator Myers. I consider it a very great emergency, and so would 
 you, if you were about to lose $187,000. 
 
 Senator Page. Yes. 
 
 Senator Myers. And then it will be a calamity. Here is a letter 
 from Mr. E. F. Tabor, project manager, the engineer on the ground: 
 
 Department of the Interior, 
 United States Reclamation Service, 
 
 St. Ignatius, Mont., January t6, 1915. 
 Hon. H.L. Myers, 
 
 United States Senate, Washington, £>. C. 
 
 Dear Sir: Receipt is acknowledged of your inquiry of January 20, concerning 
 status of work on Flathead project. 
 
 Under date of January 2, this office was advised that owing to the wording of the 
 appropriation act passed June 30, 1913, apportioning funds for use on Flathead project, 
 no portion of that appropriation was available after July 1, 1914. The act did not 
 provide that the money appropriated would be "available until expended" and 
 consequently, as an item of the Indian bill for fiscal year 1914, no portion could be 
 expended after the close of said fiscal j^ear. This decision has reduced the balance 
 available for construction very materially. The exact figures are not at present 
 available to this office. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 79 
 
 So far as this office is informed, contracts have not been awarded for any of the 
 additional canals or structures which it was hoped to ha\e completed by June 15, 
 1915, and the only hope of early construction of said works now seems to lie' in the 
 early passage of an appropriation bill which shall make money for construction imme- 
 diately available. 
 
 This office is in receipt of frequent inquiries from entrymen as to whether there is 
 positive assurance tliat water can be furnished for the season of 1915, but at the present 
 time is unable to answer these questions. 
 Respectfully, 
 
 E. F. Tabor, Project Manager. 
 
 Senator Page. That has been done, has it not ? It was made 
 immediately available ? 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes; that is, it has been put in the bill, but it has 
 not gotten through Congress. It is made available, that is true, but 
 in order to disclose the situation I had to read these letters. Mr. 
 Meritt, I will ask you if you Icnow anything about this. Are you 
 able to say that it is correct that there is $186,906.81 of the appro- 
 priation for the year of 1913 and 1914 that was unexpended and 
 unused ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. It is my understanding that there was a considerable 
 balance that will revert to the Treasury unless we get this appro- 
 priation, and I judge they have the exact amount. 
 
 Senator Page. It is two years old; it is not last year. 
 
 Senator Mteks. Now, gentlemen, I simply submit to you whether 
 or not it is fair for that project to lose that money after its having 
 once been appropriated. 
 
 Senator White. In making the estimate for this year of $500,000, 
 that is carried in this bill, did the department consider that the other 
 fund that you are asking was not so available ? 
 
 Senator Myers. That is for Mr. Meritt to say. 
 
 Senator White. In other words, did you figure that you could not 
 use this $187,000, I will say, in round numbers, in addition to the 
 $500,000 which you are claiming in this bill ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes; we were figuring on using all the money here- 
 tofore appropriated. 
 
 Senator White. As well as what is in this? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes; but the comptroller has held that those funds 
 were not available because of a provision in one of the general appro- 
 priation bills. 
 
 Senator White. I did not know but what the estimate had been 
 made excluding that, but I understand now that under the estimate 
 of $500,000 for the present year you anticipated using tliis $187,000 
 that Senator Myers is speaking of? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Page. I may be confused about it. I had supposed that 
 this was not to help out on our last year's appropriation bill. I 
 thought they had gone back to the year before last and that the 
 money must have been already turned back into the Treasury. Am I 
 right about that ? .,„,.. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Heretofore the money appropriated for the irriga- 
 tion projects has been available until expended, but there was a pro- 
 vision incorporated in one of the general appropriation acts that made 
 it necessary to expend the money within the year for which it was 
 appropriated, and this money not being expended within that year, 
 reverted to the Treasury, contrary to the practice that had thereto- 
 fore prevailed in the financing of these projects. 
 
80 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Myers. It was only last July that it reverted, Senator 
 Page.. This money was for the 1st of July, 1914. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Does the language of the bill of 1914 provide that 
 this money shall be available until expended ? 
 
 Senator Myers. No; that bUl did not provide that. 
 
 Senator Geonna. Then I can not understand how it can be main- 
 tained that it is figured that this money could be used. All appro- 
 priations that are not used up before the end of the fiscal year revert 
 to the Treasury, do they not ? 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Meritt says that the auditor has been follow- 
 ing a different plan in permitting them to use it on reclamation 
 projects, and they say in these letters the same thing. 
 
 Senator Lane. I think that came through the Committee on Irri- 
 gation, did it not ? 
 
 Senator Myers. I do not know. 
 
 Senator Lane. They objected that the Reclamation Department 
 expended the money without coming to Congress, and they wanted 
 to compel them to come back and get distinct instructions for the 
 use of it. 
 
 Senator Gronna. It appears to me that you have more money than 
 you are able to use. 
 
 Senator Myers. No; they explain in this letter that the appropria- 
 tion begins in the middle of the year — the middle of the activity, 
 the 1st of July — while they are at work, and that they can not 
 always complete before the winter sets in all the work outlined and 
 for which that money is intended, and the engineer states here 
 explicitly that he had to leave certain parts of that work open until 
 this spring, and that he purposely left i 187,000 of it in the Treasury 
 unexpended, for the express purpose of completing, this work this 
 spring, but after having done that, he finds himself in the unfortunate 
 condition that he can not get the money. 
 
 Senator Page. This resolution does not apply to appropriations 
 that wiU terminate on June 30, 1915, but rather to an appropriation 
 that ended June 30, 1914; therefore, that fund must have been turned 
 back into the Treasury last June. 
 
 Senator Myers. It never was taken out. 
 
 Senator Page. Very well. Now, it can not be possible that after 
 that money had gone into the Treasury the department thought they 
 were using $500,000, plus the $200,000 or $300,000? 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Meritt has just said so. 
 
 Senator Owen. The estimate would have been that much larger, 
 except for that fund that was always appropriated. 
 
 Senator Myers. That is what Mr. Meritt says. 
 
 Senator Lane. He must have known that the law vacated that 
 fund and caused it to revert into the Treasury. The law was passed 
 with the express intention of checkuig up such matters as these and 
 having them come to Congress. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. This matter of the funds reverting to the Treasury 
 has been brought to the attention of the office since we submitted our 
 estimate for the work on that project. 
 
 Senator Lane. When did you make the estimate? 
 Mr. Meritt. We made this estimate in December. 
 Senator Lane. When was the law passed? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 81 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The legislation was passed last year, but the Comp- 
 troller did not render his decision as to this particular fund until 
 recently. 
 
 Senator Myers. The Reclamation vService just found it out this 
 month. 
 
 Now, gentlemen, I submit to you whether or not it is fair, under 
 this proof and under the statement of Mr. Meritt, for the project to 
 lose |l87,000. Of course, if a majority of the committee thinks it is 
 fair and right, I wiU simply have to submit to their decision, but I 
 appeal to you, do you thmk this course is fair and right ? 
 
 Senator IjANe. Can you not get this resolution through Congress? 
 
 Senator Myees. I^et me digress just a moment. I do not think 
 there is a man in aU Congress who has been more careful and pains- 
 taking about keeping down these appropriations and fighting what 
 he might consider unnecessary, than Judge Stephens of Texas. Am 
 I correct about that, Mr. Evans ? 
 
 Hon. John M. Evans. I think you are correct. 
 
 Senator Myers. He is one of the most careful men — I think he is 
 penurious, but he is one of the most painstaking, trimming men to 
 keep down appropriations that I ever knew with respect to this 
 Flathead project. He has always been in favor of keeping down the 
 appropriation to a very small sum and yet Judge Stephens certainly 
 must think it is correct. He is chairman of the Committee on Indian 
 Affairs in the House. He introduced this resolution. 
 
 But in answer to Senator Ijane's question, I wiU say that I do 
 not think the resolution has any chance. 
 
 Senator Gronna. This is new legislation, is it not ? 
 
 Senator Myers. Oh, no; it is not general legislation, not subject 
 to a point of order. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Would it not be new legislation ? 
 
 Senator Myers. What we have in the whole bill is new legislation. 
 
 Senator Gronna. But would it not be better to increase the ap- 
 propriation? Instead of saying $500,000, let us make it $687,000. 
 
 Senator Myers. That is immaterial to me, if the committee wants 
 to do it in that way. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Then it would not be subject to a point of order. 
 I believe the amendment is clearly subject to a point of order, be- 
 cause it is changing existing law. 
 
 Senator Myers. I do not think it changes existing law. It simply 
 restores it — reappropriates $187,000. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Then if there is no law providing that you can 
 not use this money at the end of the fiscal year, you are entitled to 
 the use of the money. 
 
 Senator Myers. What do you think about that, Senator Owen; 
 do you think it is subject to a point of order ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I believe the suggestion made by Senator Gronna 
 is a good one; it might be subject to a point of order. 
 
 Senator Myers. That will be quite agreeable to me if you want to 
 raise it to $687,000. . . 
 
 Senator Gronna. I think if we are going to put it m at aU, it would 
 be far better to increase the amount and make it whatever the appro- 
 priation ought to be. 
 
 82833 — ^TOL 2 — 15 6 -^ 
 
82 INDIAN APPEOPEIATIOSr BILL. 
 
 Senator Myees. Mr. Meritt, do you think it will be subject to a 
 point of order? You have paid a good deal of attention to those 
 matters. 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. I would not like to pass upon that. 
 
 Senator Owen. I do not think it would be subject to a point of 
 order, because it is carrying out the law as it was made, but the inter- 
 vening law changed the situation. 
 
 Senator Geonna. No; it is not carrying out the law. The law is 
 changed, providing that that money womd have to be used by the 
 end of the fiscal year; we are changing that by this legislation. 
 
 Senator Myees. Woidd you be willing to raise it to $687,000 ? 
 
 Senator Geonna. According to the statement of the commissioner, 
 I have no objection to increasing it. 
 
 Senator Myees. What do you think about that, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. It would be entirely agreeable to the department. 
 
 Senator Myees. Then I move 
 
 Senator Page. You are a pretty good lawyer yourself, Senator, 
 and I would suggest this: The department has estimated for this 
 work; they have estimated S500,000. Do you think you could 
 increase that estimate by an item of 1187,000 and not to have it 
 subject to a point of order? 
 
 Senator Myees. What was your estimate, Mr. Meritt, $500,000? 
 
 Mr. Meeitt. $500,000 for the Flathead. 
 
 Senator Myees. My understanding of the rule is — and I read the rule 
 the other day — that nothing shall go into an appropriation bill which 
 has not been estimated by a department, or which is not recommended 
 by a standing committee of the Senate. If this committee recom- 
 mends it, as a standing committee of the Senate notwithstanding it 
 has not been estimated for, I do not think it is subject to a point of 
 order. The rule, as I understand, is double-horned. The point of 
 order must be that it was not estimated for or recommended by a 
 standing committee of the Senate. 
 
 Senator Page. Then I understand that anything we recommend 
 here can not go out on a point of order ? 
 
 Senator Myees. That is my understanding with regard to appro- 
 priations. Is that not your understanding. Senator ? 
 
 Senator Page. I had supposed that there were a good many items 
 that might go out on a point of order. 
 
 Senator Myees. If you are putting on general legislation, and it 
 further says anything which wUl increase the amount of the appro- 
 priation bill shall not go on unless it has been estimated for by the 
 department or recommended by a standing committee of the Senate. 
 
 Senator Page. Of course. I was taking it for granted that the 
 department had made an estimate for the $500,000. If you have 
 more than that it would be open to a point of order. 
 
 Senator Lane. The other day there came up a question of a 
 $450,000 appropriation, under the same conditions as exist in your 
 case. It had been made for a reclamation project in Oregon, con- 
 tingent upon the State spending the same amount. The State 
 went ahead and spent $450,000 under the impression that it was 
 cooperating with the Government, but the department took a differ- 
 ent view of it. But when we came to get them to appropriate 
 $450,000 on a definite project, which the Secretary had decided. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 83 
 
 recommended, and estimated for, we could not get the Senate Com- 
 mittee on A^ppropriations to touch it at all. They said they were 
 trying to trim off every dollar of appropriation everywhere, and we 
 could not get it untU we went into the Senate and got it over their 
 heads. It was contingent upon the State appropriating dollar for 
 doUar, but they would not ksten to it. 
 
 Senator Mye-rs. It is immaterial to me in which way you put this. 
 I do not believe it wiU bo subject to a point of order either way. 
 If the committee thinks it is fan- for us to have the benefit of this 
 appropriation which has been made for us, and which the project 
 never has had, I would like to have it put in in any form. If a 
 majority of the committee thinks that we should not have it, I will 
 have to submit. In any event, I would like to have Mr. Evans, of 
 the House of Representatives, heard for a few minutes. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN M. EVANS, A MEMBER OF THE 
 HOUSE OF EEPRESENTATIVES FROM MONTANA. 
 
 Mr. Evans. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, almost anything that I 
 might say would be merely a repetition of what Senator Myers has 
 said. It has occurred to me, however, that on the question of the 
 estimate, this $187,000 was estimated when the Secretary recom- 
 mended an appropriation of 1500,000 more. He knew that $187,000 
 was there, he therefore estimated that he had $187,000 and he recom- 
 mended $500,000 more. In this case they ought to have that amount 
 for carrying on that work. 
 
 Senator Page. Do you not think that he knew that the $187,000 
 had reverted to the Treasury ? 
 
 Mr. Evans. I do not think he did. 
 Senator Myers. He said he did not. 
 
 Senator Page. It seems to nae if he had investigated it or thought 
 about it, he would have known that that money had gone back into 
 the Treasury, or was never taken from the Treasury, and it could not 
 be used. 
 
 Senator Myers. I stated that the ruliag of the auditor was made 
 very recently — after they had made this estimate last fall. They 
 were not expecting to spend this money until this spring. 
 
 Senator Page. It is not the present year's appropriation. It goes 
 back to last the last year, and if there is any such thing as fiction on 
 the 30th day of June, 1914, I do not see how the department, in 
 making the estimate, could have estimated that the sum was avail- 
 able, and therefore they only wanted $500,000, when, as a matter of 
 fact, he must have known, if he had thought about it, that that fund 
 would revert. 
 
 Mr. Evans. I do not think he thought about it; it is unquestion- 
 ably a fact that he did not reahze it, whether he thought about it 
 or not, because the same man who was making the estimate was 
 going on with the work and was at that time spending this very 
 money in buying goods and horses for that part of the work, and has 
 now spent a part of this money when they come to find the auditor's 
 decision in their way, and they can not get it out. 
 
 Senator Myers. I do not believe it would be fair for the project 
 to lose that money on account of some hitch in the different depart- 
 
84 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 ments. So it seems to me it should impress the different members 
 of the committee that it would not be fair for the project to lose that 
 money through some misunderstanding in the departments by 
 which it was hung up. The project is the sufferer. 
 
 Senator Page. As you know, I feel that the whole project is one 
 on which we have started from a wrong premise, and reaching a 
 wrong conclusion. The project now is to take the money from the 
 Treasury. There is nothing reimbursable about it so far as the 
 Indian funds are concerned. Of course, it is expected that some 
 time or other these lands will be sold and we will get our money 
 back. 
 
 Senator Myers. Yes. 
 
 Senator Page. It seems to me, in the present condition of the 
 Treasury, that instead of having $800,000, you should take 1500,000. 
 Senator Myers. This project with regard to the Flathead Reserva- 
 tion only calls for $187,000 more. I want to call the attention of the 
 committee to the fact that the committee sitting here voted to appro- 
 priate $500,000 more to that project on the supposition and belief and 
 the understanding — resting under the impression that the $325,000 
 appropriated for 1913 and 1914 had been spent and gone into the 
 project, beheving that the project had got the fuU benefit of that, 
 nobody knowing any better, no one knowing anything to the con- 
 trary, and on that assumption that that $325,000 had gone into the 
 project, you voluntarily appropriated $500,000 more. Now we find, 
 through a mistake of the department, or some one, that $187,000 of 
 the money we thought had gone into the project has not gone into it. 
 Senator Page. As a matter of fact, was any thought given to that, 
 or did any member of the committee have the slightest knowledge 
 with regard to this unexpended balance ? 
 
 Senator Myers. But you voted with me. Senator Page, and the 
 other members of the committee did, to appropriate $325,000 for that 
 year. Now, the assumption must be that the money went into the 
 project. We did not give it any particular thought. We did not 
 stop to inquire if that money got into the project, but we aU assumed 
 it had and acted on that theory. Now, when we find that the project 
 has been euchred out of $187,000 that we thought it had got, shall 
 we hold it upon the technicality of the situation and permanently 
 deprive it of that money that was lost through no fault of thehs ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. If work had been done this money could be paid 
 out. 
 
 Senator White. Mr. Chairman, I have to leave the committee for 
 a few moments, and I ask unanimous consent that my vote be cast 
 in favor of the contention of Senator Myers. 
 
 Senator Myers. You mean to cast your vote in favor of it either 
 way it is proposed ? 
 Senator White. Yes. 
 There was no objection. 
 
 Senator Myers. To bring the matter to a head, I move that the 
 appropriation of $500,000 for the Flathead Reservation in the bUl be 
 increased to $686,996.81. 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 85 
 
 BLACKFEET IRRIGATION PROJECT. 
 
 Senator Mtees. Now, I will successively bring up the other two 
 projects. I move that the appropriation for the Blackfeet project 
 tins year be mcreased— I do not know just what it would bring it to— 
 but mcreased by $33,591.95, and I ask for a vote on that. 
 
 benator Geonna. I understood if you got the $187,000 for the 
 Blaclvleet Reservation you would be satisfied. 
 
 Senator Myers. I said I would if I could not do any better. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I certainly shall vote against that. 
 
 Senator Myers. All I can do is to submit it to the judgment of the 
 committee. I want to be perfectly fair with the committee. 
 
 The question being taken, the amendment was not agreed to 
 Senator Myers voting "aye." 
 
 FORT peck irrigation PROJECT. 
 
 Senator Miners. I move that the appropriation for the Fort Peck 
 irrigation project be increased by $64,295.23. 
 
 The question bemg put, the amendment was not agreed to, Senator 
 Myers voting "aye." 
 
 CLAIM OF J. r. m'mLTIEAY attorney's fee — CHOCTAW AND CHICKA- 
 SAW NATIONS. REPORT OF SUBCOMMITTEE. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Mr. Chairman, I have been looking over the 
 record after ]\Ir. McMurray was heard the other day, and I find 
 that after some discussion all of us agreed that he ought to have a 
 chance to go to the Court of Claims, providing there was a proper 
 opportunity for any offset that the Indians might have, to be sub- 
 mitted, and I make a motion that a subcommittee be appointed, 
 with authority to prepare an amendment and insert it in the biU. 
 That committee was appointed, consisting of Senators Thompson, 
 Fall, and Clapp. But they have not acted upon the matter. Now, 
 if it IS thought best, they can report hereafter, and if they report 
 favorably, the matter may be put into the bill. 
 
 The Chairman. On the floor of the Senate ? 
 
 Senator Townsend. If it is submitted to the chairman before the 
 bill is printed it may be put in. 
 
 Senator Page. Before I vote upon it I would like to hear what the 
 report of the subcommittee is. WiU you briefly state, Senator, 
 what the proposition is? 
 
 Senator Townsend. This is a provision which was drawn up. I 
 do not want to report on this, because the committee has not passed 
 upon it. but I will read it. It is as foUows: 
 
 The Court of Claims is hereby authorized and directed to hear, consider, and adjudi- 
 cate all claims of J. F. McMurray as the assignee of the firm of Mansfield, McMurray 
 and CorniBh against the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations of Indians, or either of them, 
 for all professional services rendered, expenses incurred, and disbursements made on 
 behalf of said nations prior to March 4, 1907, with interest from date of such services 
 or payments on all amounts found due at the legal rates prevailing at the time and 
 place of the transactions involved, and to render judgment in such amount as may be 
 equitably and just, which judgment, if any, against said nations shall be paid by the 
 Treasurer of the United States out of any funds of said nations as their interest may 
 appear; provided that as to any claim so sued upon the Choctaw and Chickasaw 
 
86 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 Nations, or either of them, shall be permitted to interpose all proper defense by way of 
 counterclaim or set-off, and the filing of such claims and the answers thereto on behalf 
 of said nations, shall be held to be a waiver of the statute of limitations, as the same 
 said J. F. McMurray to said Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations may be offset against 
 may apply thereto, and provided further, that any amount found to b« owing by the 
 such claims and deducted from any amount found to be due him thereon; and notice 
 of the filing of such suit shall be served upon the principal Chief of the Choctaw Nation 
 and the governor of the Chickasaw Nation, and said nations shall be represented 
 therein by the attorneys for said nations, respectively, and by the Attorney General 
 of the United States. 
 
 Senator Page. Would you recommend an 8 per cent rate ? 
 
 Senator Owen. It runs from 6 to 8 per cent oy contract. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I say "the legal rate" here. I am not oflfer- 
 ing it unless the committee wants to act upon it. The subcommittee 
 has not acted upon it, except Senator Fall, but I thought if the com- 
 mittee did pass upon it, and Mr. Bond, the attorney for the Indians, 
 and Mr. McMurray himself was satisfied, I would have no objection 
 to it going into the bdl. 
 
 Senator Page. I have none if both sides agree. 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. Bond tells me he does not agree to that. 
 
 Senator Geonna. I remember that Mr. Bond made some objec- 
 tions to the amendment proposed by Mr. McMurray, if that is a copy 
 of his amendment 
 
 Mr. McMurray. It is not the copy that I presented the other day. 
 I have tried to reform that to meet the objection of everyone. As I 
 understand it, Mr. Bond wants an appeal to the Supreme Court. I 
 do not object to that. I think they have a right to appeal as it is, 
 but if it ia desired to express it in those terms 1 have no objection. 
 
 Senator Gronna. What is it you object to in this, Mr. Bond? 
 
 Mr. Bond. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I have 
 not had an opportunity to examine the item just drawn carefully. 
 The item that was submitted to me the other day I examined very 
 carefully and made notations with respect to it and was ready to 
 appear before the committee and state my objections. As to this 
 item, I would object to the prevailing rate of interest. As suggested 
 by Senator Townsend, I think the legal rate should control,* and I 
 think the tribe should have the right of interest and of appeal to the 
 Supreme Court of the United States; and the lines of the item with 
 reference to set-offs and with reference to waiver of lapse of time I 
 did not have an opportunity to examine carefully and satisfy myself 
 as to whether they were correct or not. I desire the committee, 
 though, to understand that I will appear before the subcommittee 
 and present any objections to the legislation as offered and not for 
 the purpose of introducing legislation in order to have my tribe sued, 
 because I think it is my duty to keep my tribe out of the court, if 
 possible. I will appear before the subcommittee and make any sug- 
 gestions, or criticisms I think proper with reference to the item. 
 
 Senator Page. Then you do not agree to this legislation? 
 
 Mr. Bond. I do not want to be a party to originating any legisla- 
 tion against my tribe. 
 
 Senator Page. Then, Mr. Chairman, I do not think we ought to 
 consider it as a full committee imtU we have a report of the subcom- 
 mittee. I think it is taking up time uselessly. 
 
 The Chairman. That will go over. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 87 
 
 Mr. McMuREAY. So far as the rate of interest is concerned, I have 
 no objection to that. I have been carrying the notes of the governor 
 tor 12,500 at current interest, and I think they ought to pay their 
 own interest, but if they want the legal rate I do not object to that. 
 it they want to provide in terms that it shall be appealed to the 
 bupreme Court, I do not object to that. 
 
 The Chairman. Your argument ought to be addressed to the 
 subcommittee. As far as I am personally concerned I see some 
 merit m your contention, but I do think the weakness in this matter 
 is that you have waited until the closing hours of Congress and it 
 requires an immense amount of investigation. 
 
 Mr. McMiirray. Six weeks ago I submitted it to the department. 
 
 t V^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^y ^^*^™ ^^^^ ^^^ ^ "^^ ^^^^ *° ^^^^ ^^'^'^- I 
 was before the department down here for six weeks, and they came 
 
 out with a flat-footed recommendation that it be submitted to the 
 court. 
 
 The Chairman. If the subcommittee reports it favorably it will 
 be in the bill. 
 
 Senator Myers. Mr. Chairman, I do not know much about this 
 matter; I have not been able to attend the committee as regularly 
 as some others, but why not report out the bill now, if we are ready, 
 independently of that ? 
 
 The Chairman. There are some other matters to be considered. 
 
 Senator Myers. Whenever we are ready let the subcommittee 
 make a report to the full committee, and then let the full committee 
 meet and act upon the report, and, if the full committee should 
 approve the report of the subcommittee, authorize the chair to offer it 
 on the floor of the Senate as a committee amendment. 
 
 The Chairman. I have no objection to that. 
 
 Senator Myers. If the full committee turns down the subcom- 
 mittee it would be just the same as if it was turned down now. I 
 move that if the subcommittee does not report until after this bill is 
 acted upon and reported to the Senate, and reports afterwards but 
 before the biU is acted upon in the Senate, that the chairman have a 
 meeting of the fuU committee to act upon the report of the subcom- 
 mittee, and that the committee then authorize the chairman to do 
 whatever he may see fit with the report of the subcommittee — either 
 offer it on the floor of the Senate as a committee amendment, or 
 turn it down. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I think that is a fair proposition. It is never 
 too late to do justice. According to the argument made here on 
 Saturday it was demonstrated to me that Mansfield, McMurray & 
 Cornish did splendid service for the Indians ; in fact, I thought at the 
 time their services were too valuable for those who were taken off the 
 rolls. As far as I am personally concerned, I want to say that it is 
 not too late for me to consider it, because we have just considered an 
 item of $187,000 odd for the Senator from Montana, and speaking for 
 myself I would be glad to meet here with the committee and con- 
 sider it upon the report of the subcommittee, and either approve it 
 or reject it. 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to the chairman of this 
 committee offering it as a Senate amendment proposed by the com- 
 
88 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 mittee, in the event that the subcommittee agrees to report it 
 favorably ? 
 
 (There was no objection, and it was so ordered ) 
 
 Senator Myers. What do you say to that, Mr. McMurray ? Do you 
 think that is right and fair ? 
 
 Mr. McMuERAY. Yes; I am perfectly willing. If they sit down and 
 go through this matter there is no danger that you or Senator Ashurst 
 or anybody else wUl say that it is not right. I have the original con- 
 tract that was made and executed and sent to the department and 
 there affirmed and approved, and the work done and the money 
 recovered and put into the Treasury. I can not see how anybody 
 can object to that. If it is a matter of the rate of interest, I would 
 rather surrender that than come back here. 
 
 The Chaieman. Is there any objection to the chairman of the com- 
 mittee, or any other member thereof, offering it as a committee amend- 
 ment on the floor of the Senate, if the subcommittee agrees with the 
 contesting parties on the f oi-m of the amendment ? 
 
 Senator Myees. My suggestion, which was adopted, was that the 
 chairman do it, and also that he do it if the full committee meets and 
 ratifies the sulDcommittee's report, whether both sides agree to it 
 or not. 
 
 It was so ordered. 
 
 INDIAN FOEEST EESBEVE BED LAKE INDIANS, MINNESOTA. 
 
 The Chaieman. Senator Nelson is present and desires to make a 
 brief statement with regard to the item on pages 30, 31, 32, and 33 
 of the bill relating to a forest reserve for the Red Lake Band of' 
 Indians in Minnesota. 
 
 STATEMENT OF HON. KNUTE NELSON, A SENATOE FROM 
 
 MINNESOTA. 
 
 Senator Nelson. Mr. Chairman, I want to explain to the com- 
 mittee that when I came to Minnesota in 1871 it was the greatest 
 white pine State in the Union. They had great white pine forests, 
 but the lumbermen have got all of it. The only remnant of the pine 
 we have left is on the Red Lake Reservation. 
 
 If you will look at this map, you wiU see that the lake is really 
 composed of two lakes ; that they unite, and right in here [indicating] 
 the land you see marked in blue is mostly pine timber. There is some 
 oak there and other timber. 
 
 There are between eleven and twelve hundred of these Red Lake 
 Indians. They have always heretofore refused to take allotments. 
 Their original reservation — the reservation they got on 1884-85 — 
 extended farther west and included 1 1 townships. They relinquished 
 that and retained this [indicating]. They are to have 160 acres of 
 the allotment. This is agricultural land — prairie, and some of it 
 meadow land requiring drainage. The timber is around here [indi- 
 cating], and there is somewhere around 100,000 acres of that timber. 
 If the Indians were to take the allotments — and they have refused to 
 take allotments, until lately — if the Indians were to take allotments, 
 there would be only a few that would get that pine timber, and the 
 rest would have to take this other land. 
 
INDIAK APPKOPKIATION BILL. 89 
 
 Now, the plan of this bill — and it is incorporated here — is to leave 
 all this other land that you see here, this yellow land, for the Indians 
 for allotments, and then save the timber around the lake as an Indian 
 forest reserve for their use, giving them the benefit of it, and at the 
 same time leaving them a strip along the lake where they can hunt 
 and fish. 
 
 In preparing this bill I conferred with the Secretary of the Interior 
 and told him what my wishes were. It was to reserve and preserve 
 this pine as long as possible to show at some date that we had a little 
 pine in Minnesota and preserved it for the Indians, so they could have 
 it as a forest reserve in which they could camp and all of them get 
 the use of the dead and matured timber for fuel, etc., leaving the other 
 land for their allotments. This other land will fill the allotments and 
 a little oyer. Last fall some gentlemen came down to see if it was 
 not possible to open it for settlers. I said it could not be done, 
 because under the law opening and creating that reservation the 
 Indians were entitled to 160 acres of allotments. We figured it up, 
 and on this yellow land that you see here [indicating] it would leave 
 probably one or two townships, more than enough to fill the allot- 
 ments. 
 
 Now, the plan of this bill is to leave it so the Indians can get this 
 agricultural land for allotments and have the pine in common and 
 the Indian forest reserve for their use especially and at the same time 
 -leave a strip of land around the lake tliat the Indians can occupy. 
 The bill, as you see, provides a strip of 50 feet front that the Indians 
 can occupy for hunting and fishing purposes, but that does not de- 
 prive them of the full allotment. 
 
 We had a great scandal and an investigation over the pine land on 
 what they call the White Earth Reservation down here — two or there 
 townships — and a bill was passed in Congress increasing the allot- 
 ments. Those Indians were originally entitled to 80 acres and a biU 
 was passed giving them 80 acres more. Under that they took, or some 
 of them took, this pine land for allotments,- and those pine-land 
 allotments immediately passed into the hands of the lumbermen and 
 they have been logging most of it; most of it is cut off. 
 
 You gentlemen who do not live in a pine country can hardly realize 
 it, but the pine land, where the pine grows, is generally poor and sandy 
 land; it is not considered good agricultural land. 
 
 Now, the only men that I know who ever opposed this legislation 
 are the lumbermen. Last year some of the lumbermen were here and 
 wanted me to get a bill passed so that this timber could be sold. I 
 said no, I did not want that timber sold, that I wanted it saved for 
 the Indians perpetually so that the Indians could have it and get the 
 use of it for their own fuel, and for their own use, and if any mature 
 and dead timber is to be sold it is to be sold for the benefit of the 
 Indians. 
 
 Senator Owen. That is the policy of this proposition, is it not ? 
 Senator Nelson. That is the policy, and it is not proposed to take 
 a single acre of this reservation away from the Indians. But you 
 can readily see if they are allowed to take allotments on this pine 
 land it will only be a small fraction who can get it. They can only 
 get the pine and the rest wil' not have any, or get the benefit of it. 
 The plan of this bill is to leave it so the Indians can get these agri- 
 
90 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 cultural allotments and then have this forest reserve for their own 
 use. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How much pine is there how many acres ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. I can not tell you offhand, although I have the 
 figures somewhere. I think there are about 100,000 acres of timber, 
 but it is not all pine. If you will look at the map you can see the 
 townships here. 
 
 Senator Owen. You think it would be the best thing to do for the 
 Indians ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. Certainly it is. I do not want the lumbermen 
 to gobble that timber. A representative of the lumbermen has been 
 here within the last few weeks and wanted me to get a bill passed. 
 I have two purposes in view, one for the good of the Indians, and 
 another the pride in my State. I want to have one stand of pine left 
 that the lumbermen have not skinned in the State of Minnesota. 
 That is the only purpose, and I hope you gentlemen will help me. 
 It is for the benefit of the Indians. 
 
 I went over it with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and to show 
 you how careful he is in his desire to protect the Indians, if you wiU 
 come and look at this map I will show you a situation. The blue here 
 [indicating] is the timber. Now, you can see that yellowish mark 
 there, the strip running in there along the lake shore. 
 
 Senator Owen. You have preserved the lake front. 
 
 Senator Nelson. For the Indians; they are to have the use of 
 that 50 feet front for each head of a family. That is outside of their 
 allotments. It does not come out of their allotments and does not 
 affect their interest in the pine. Every bit of this pine inures to the 
 benefit of the Indians. If any is cut, they get the proceeds of it and 
 get their fuel out of the dead and down timber. 
 
 Now, gentlemen, that in a general way is all I have to say about it. 
 I may say that I conferred with the department about the proposi- 
 tion before I drew the bill. It follows the plan that has existed in 
 Wisconsin, called the Menominee plan, to some extent. You are 
 familiar with that, as to the timber for the benefit of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Owen. It is approved by the department ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. Certainly. The biU was referred to the depart- 
 ment, and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, not only in his formal 
 letter which I have here (and which I will not take the time to read), 
 but in conversations I had with him, most heartily approved it, 
 and if you have the welfare of the Indians at heart as a body you 
 can not do anything better for them. It leaves them all this other 
 land so that each one of them can get 160 acres of agricultural land 
 as an allotment, and then they have this timber in common for the 
 good of the tribe. 
 
 Senator Page. The suggestion has been made here that the land 
 they would have would be swamp land. 
 
 Senator Nelson. Part of the land is marshy, but the Government 
 is taking steps to have it drained. Here [indicating] is a river that 
 runs out of the Red Lake River. It is one of the sources of the Red 
 River of the North, and the Government has plans to drain some of 
 it. Some of the land is low and marshy, but they are going to 
 drain it and put it in shape so that it wiU be good, serviceable land. 
 
 Senator Page. And when it is put in shape it will be the best of 
 all the land ? 
 
INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 91 
 
 Senator Nelson. Of course. The rest of it is upland. If that 
 land was thrown open to settlement there would be a white man on 
 it in 48 hours after the Land OflB.ce had opened it in every quarter 
 section. 
 
 Mr. Chairman, I am through. I do not know whether any of 
 you gentlemen want to ask any questions; if so, I will be glad to 
 answer them. 
 
 Senator Lane. I may say that all I know about it is from the 
 representation made by an Indian to me, that if this was created into 
 a forest reserve the Indians would be compelled to go and live on the 
 marsh land. 
 
 Senator Nelson. Oh, no; most of it is upland. 
 
 Senator Lane. I am simply telling you what he said, and that they 
 were unable to drain it and they would be unable to make a living on it. 
 
 Senator Nelson. The Indians have not taken any allotments here. 
 
 Senator Lane. No; they say they have not. 
 
 Senator Nelson. There have been some white men there, I do not 
 know who, who have been very anxious to have it taken for the 
 allotments, but as long as they do not there will be an effort among 
 the white men to open that land to settlement. They have been 
 very anxious,"but there are some Indians, mixed bloods there, who 
 are always assisting in the interest of the lumbermen, and they have 
 advised the Indians not to take the allotments, but now they are 
 beginning to desire it, some of them, and the Indians can now take 
 allotments and then in addition to that, get the use of that timber. 
 
 Senator Lane. The assistant commissioner says they have not 
 yet drained the land but they wOl at sometime in the future when they 
 get the funds, or something of that kind, and the Indians claim that 
 until they do that those lands will not be good farming lands. 
 
 Senator Nelson. There is only a small portion along the side of 
 the river there that requires drainage. Three-fourths of it is good 
 land now. 
 
 Senator Laxe. He made other objections. He commented upon 
 it in a brief. You say you are going to retain for the Indians some 
 of this timberland, a strip around the lake % 
 
 Senator Nelson. This timber is to be retained as an Indian forest 
 reserve for the use .of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Lane. Do not the Indians already own it? 
 
 Senator Nelson. They own it in this way, that it is undisposed 
 
 of 
 
 Senator Lane. Then, you are simply going to retain something 
 
 for him that he already has. 
 
 Senator Nelson. Suppose they take allotments. If they take the 
 160-acre allotments, oiuy a comparatively small number wUl get the 
 timberland, and the rest wlU not get any timber. Now, by remit- 
 ting them to this other land they wiU all get the agricultural land 
 and have the use of this in common. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Are any of them there now ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. They are along the shore of the lake. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you propose to take them away? 
 
 Senator Nelson. No, sir; we propose to leave them there. 
 
 Senator Lane. It is a strip half a mUe wide ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. No; they can stay there and in the forest reserve. 
 
^2 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Lane. Have they not already got a strip several miles 
 wide? 
 
 Senator Nelson. They have lived around that lake. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is no timberman getting that timberland, is 
 there? They can not under the present conditions, can they? 
 
 Senator Nelson. Oh, yes; there is a law under which the Secretary 
 of the Interior can sell the timber now. That is the trouble. They 
 have been for years past selling timber there. 
 
 Senator Lane. The Secretary of the Interior would not be foolish 
 enough to sell this timberland away from the Indians; he never has 
 done so. I thought from what the Indian said, and from what you 
 say now, that the Indians own this other land and the Secretary of 
 the Interior, being the guardian for them, there is no reason why he 
 should throw down the bars and let anybody graft it, but when 
 you do this you are letting him sell the stump age and the logs as if 
 he was going to cut the timber at his own convenience and on terms 
 made by himself, and to handle the funds in a way that looks reason- 
 able to him. And here again there would be a break-up wherein 
 the timberlands which are valuable now and belong to the Indians 
 would be slipping through their grasp and get out from under 
 their hands — just where they would go I do not know, but when 
 they objected to it and said they had never asked for it as a tribe 
 ancT that they were against it, but would agree to any proposition 
 whereby you would let them have a hand in drawing the terms on 
 which those lands might be sold — I thought that was right 
 
 Senator Nelson. That is not true. The Indians are not opposed 
 to it. I have not heard anything from anybody except about the 
 man who had a brief — an Indian attorney or something. The 
 Indians up there are not opposed to it. In fact, the Indians have 
 approved it up there. 
 
 Senator Lane. He had a letter from them stating that. 
 
 Senator Nelson. There has been no meeting of the Indians, and 
 so far as I know the Indians at Red Lake are in favor of it, everyone 
 of them. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What do the Indians expect to gain out of this 
 by makiag it a permanent reserve ? They can not sell their' own 
 property; is that it ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. No; the timber can be sold' for their own use, 
 but it leaves it so they can get the other lands in the allotments. 
 Suppose you do not sell it and suppose you try to allot it. Now, 
 here is this strip of timber and there are between eleven and twelve 
 hundred Indians tliere. Only a small fraction of those Indians can 
 get their 160-acre allotments and the rest of them wiU have no tim- 
 ber at all. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I can see that if the Department of the Interior 
 proposes to allot it they could give some timber to some and no tim- 
 ber to others; but I would not imagine the department would do that. 
 Senator Nelson. How could you do it? Make allotments, part 
 here and part there ? I never knew of such allotments to be made. 
 Senator Townsend. You could not do that probably, and I would 
 not do it. 
 
 Senator Nelson. No; this agricultural land I am anxious to have 
 that allotted as soon as possible to get rid of the pressure of the 
 white folks. 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 93: 
 
 Senator Townsend. Does your bill allot them ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. The prior law provides for allotment. 
 
 Senator Toavxsexd. The law already provides for allottin? this 
 land ? ^ 
 
 Senator Nelson . Yes. 
 
 Senator Townsexd. Wliat is to prevent their going on and making- 
 the allotments on there? 
 
 Senator Nelson. There is nothing to prevent; but you can see 
 what the result will be. Unless you adopt this course some of them 
 wiU get nothmg but timber and some will get nothing but this prairie. 
 
 Senator Owen. The point you make is that a timber allotment 
 might be very valuable and some others might not be. 
 
 Senator Nelson. Oh, yes; the timber is around the shore on the 
 lake and it is sandy and not fit for cultivation. There is some of it 
 oak timber. That is different. But where the pine is that land we 
 do not consider very good soil for farming. 
 
 Senator Towxsend. I reahze that. 
 
 Senator Lane. Here is a telegram that was sent from Red Lake, 
 Minn., to Mr. Head: 
 
 „ Red Lake, AIixn., February 18, 1915. 
 
 N. J. Head, 
 
 National Hotel, Washington, D. C: 
 _ Progressives sent protest against forestry bill to Secretary of the Interior, Oommis- 
 sioner Sells, Senator ( lapp, and Congressman Stephens; on the 9th also Dickens pro- 
 tested to Commissioner Sells. 
 
 J. G. Morrison. 
 Senator Nelson. I never heard of those men. 
 
 Senator Lane. It seems to me if the Indians already own the land 
 they have the lake and swamp and also the timberland; and if the 
 Secretary did his duty nobody could encroach upon them, but here 
 we are giving a blanket license to rent land on leases executed for 
 grazing, camping, and other purposes, and also to cut the timber off 
 and sell the stumpage, and one thing and another. 
 
 Senator Nelson. I will read a letter from the commissioner, which 
 is not very long: 
 
 Department op the Interior, 
 
 Washington, January 18, 1915. 
 My Dear Senator: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of 
 January 7, 1915, transmitting a copy of Senate bill 7179 to provide for the establishment 
 of a forest reserve within the Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minn., and asking for a 
 report upon the same. 
 
 Within the western portion of the Red Lake Indian Reservation there is a very large- 
 area of open lands which are susceptible of drainage as is shown by House Document 
 No. 971, Sixty-third Congress, second session. When drained these lands will afford 
 excellent agricultural allotments for the Red Lake Indians. However, it has been 
 the experience of the department that many Indians, especially Indians within the 
 lake States, are reluctant to leave the timbered areas and settle permanently in open 
 agricultural countries. The eastern portion of the Red Lake Reservation is generally 
 timbered and the larger part of it has a broken stu'face and sandy soil which is unfitted 
 for agriculture. I believe that it would be best for the Red Lake Indians to preserve 
 this eastern portion as commimity property. Senate bill 7179 provides for holding 
 this land on the eastern side of the reservation as tribal property and also makes pro- 
 vision for the sale of the timber thereon in such manner as good administration shall 
 require. 
 I should be pleased to see this biU enacted into law. 
 Cordially yours, 
 
 Franklin K. Lane., 
 Hon. Henry F. Ashuest, 
 
 Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. 
 
94 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator White. May I inquire, is the use of this reservation 
 exclusively for the Indians; does the bill provide that? 
 
 Senator Nelson. Yes; under the prior law this land was reserved 
 to them — all of this land [indicating] ; it is called the Red Lake Reser- 
 vation and they are entitled to take allotments. This yellow land 
 here, including the blue, is the part. That has been marked to show 
 what the bill covers. That is their reservation. They are entitled 
 to take allotments in severalty on that for 160 acres under the exist- 
 ing law, and that is all they can take. If there is any left after that 
 it is property held in common. 
 
 Only a part of the reservation is timber land ; it is the eastern part 
 of it. I will point it out to you on the map. The Red Lake Reser- 
 vation is aU this yellow down here [indicating]. Now, here is the 
 timber. There [indicating] is the upper and lower Red Lake. They 
 are connected. Here is the timber, that blue, and this other is part 
 of the prairie, and part of it meadow. That is part of the Red Lake 
 Reservation and they are entitled to take allotments. The timber 
 is mostly here [indicating]. The Secretary proposed to leave a strip 
 here [indicating] — that is partly yellow, not quite so blue — and a little 
 strip there. He proposed to leave that lake front for the benefit of 
 the Indians, so that they can occupy it and have access to the lake, 
 and in addition to that they can get their allotments from the other 
 land. 
 
 Senator White. Does the bill provide that this land that we are 
 now asked to make a permanent forest reserve, wUl be exclusively 
 for the use of the Indians ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. Certainly; it will be for the use of the Indians. 
 
 Senator White. The white men can not go on it at all? 
 
 Senator Nelson. No, sir; the white men can not go there. 
 
 Senator Page. If I inay make the suggestion, they have in Wis- 
 consin what they call the Menominee plan, that is, to take the Indian 
 land and under very careful rules provided by the Forestry Bureau, 
 take the dead and mature timber and gather it from year to year, 
 and in that way they maintain the timberland. They say there are 
 100,000 acres here for the benefit of the Indians in perpetuity; it is 
 hoped it wiU be a perpetual matter. There will be enough ripe, 
 mature timber there to take off from year to year and keep perhaps 
 one sawmill running later on for the benefit of the Indians, which 
 will give them an income. 
 
 I do not know whether the Menominee plan worked out good or 
 bad. I went there as a member of a subcommittee on Indian Affairs 
 several years ago, and at that time they had a very nice mill which 
 was doing a large business, and those living in the vicinity thought 
 it was going to work out very nicely. 
 
 Senator Nelson. You understand if this bill passes there wiU be 
 plenty of land to give every Indian 160 acres of agricultural land, and 
 there will be at least a township over that. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Would there be any objection to putting in a 
 provision that only matured timber should be sold ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. Certainly not. I want the forestry reservation 
 for the benefit of the Indians. Senator La FoUette is familiar with 
 what they call the Menominee plan. In drawing this I adopted the 
 main features of that plan. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 95 
 
 Senator Page. Ih the Menominee plan I think they leave to the 
 torester the authority to go around and designate trees here and 
 there and mark them. They may occasionally take a tree that is 
 not dead, or is not matured for some special reason; but as a rule the 
 torester is supposed to look out for this reservation so that there will 
 be a continuous supply of lumber for a long number of years for the 
 benefat of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I think it wUl be a protection to the Indians if 
 we provide that only the matured timber can be sold. They have 
 Tinder the provisions of the bill as it now stands, the right to take the 
 dead timber, and if we provide that only the matured timber could 
 be sold I think that would be beneficial. 
 
 Senator Page. Only the matured timber or such as the forester 
 might deem to the advantage of the Indians, to be sold. 
 
 Senator Gronna. I simply mention this because I have heard 
 some fear expressed that they might use this land and cut down all 
 the timber, which of course they would not do. 
 
 Senator Townsend. As I understand it there is a provision there 
 for the erection of sawmills, etc. You are proposing to cut this 
 timber ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. Fpr the good of the Indians. We do not propose 
 to cut anything except what you might call the dead timber that has 
 ceased to grow. 
 
 Senator Townsend. You would not build a sawmill for that 
 purpose up there, would you ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. No; and Senator Clapp told me he was going to 
 put into the bill an amendment — and I have no objection to that — 
 providing that no money shall be expended for a sawmill without the 
 approval of Congress. 
 
 Senator Townsend. As I see it, if you make a provision for cutting 
 the timber and sawing it up, you will defeat one of your objects. 
 
 Senator Nelson. I do not want that to be done. 
 
 Senator Owen. I think it would be for the benefit of the forest 
 reserve to use the matured timber. 
 
 Senator Nelson. That is what I want, to use the matured timber 
 and have that utUized and give the Indians the benefit. 
 
 Senator Owen. I would like to ask the Senator from Wisconsin a 
 question. Does not that Menominee sawmiU run satisfactorily ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think it does. The Indian Office is better 
 advised about it than I am, because they have all the details. They 
 make reports to the department of their sales of lumber, and all that. 
 I do not think that they have been able to sell their lumber at the 
 best advantage for the reason that they were required to sell it to 
 the highest bidder instead of being able to send out as other mills do 
 to the yards where they wanted it sold on perhaps 30 or 60 days' 
 time. They have not made as much from the sales of their lumber as 
 they might have made, and we have adopted in this bill an amend- 
 ment authorizing them to sell as other mills do. 
 
 Senator Nelson. There is one trouble, and that is that the lumber- 
 men are just hungry for this pine. An amendment was proposed 
 last year by a member of the House, providing for cutting all of this 
 timber and disposing of it — seUing it. I was opposed to that and 
 it was stricken out by the committee. I told Senator Clapp, who was 
 on the committee, what my objections were to it, and it was left out. 
 
96 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 I simply want this timber reserve for the benefit' of the Indians on 
 the plan that they have in Wisconsin. As I have stated, the Indians 
 will receive ample allotments and there wiU be a surplus. Then they 
 wiU have this timber in common for their own use for fuel, and if there 
 is any mature timber or dead timber that ought to be sold, they can 
 either seU it or log it and float it down the river — there is a river run- 
 ning down from Red Lake to a place caUed Thief River Falls, where 
 there is a sawmill. 
 
 Senator Toavnsend. Does not the Indian department now have 
 authority to seU that dead and down timber or use it for the benefit 
 of the Indians ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. They have authority to sell it now, and that is 
 why I do not want it sold. Here is the trouble. We have had ex- 
 perience in Minnesota. A man sells to these lunabermen. They let 
 them go in and cut the dead and down timber and they go in and 
 skin it altogether — they do not only take that. 
 
 Senator Lane. That is what I was afraid of in this provision. 
 Senator White. Would not the same difficulty present itself here ? 
 Senator Nelson. No; it would not in an Indian forest reserve 
 under the officials of the department. We had one case in Minnesota 
 that went to the Supreme Court here. A contract was made — ^I think 
 it was during the last part of Cleveland's first term, or during the first 
 part of Harrison's term — between lumbermen in Minnesota to cut 
 3,000,000 feet of dead timber on the Indian reservation there. Under 
 that contract they went to work and cut between 18,000,000 and 
 20,000,000, and suit was brought. They had three or four trials, 
 and it went to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court made them 
 pay double damages. The Supreme Court held that they 'were tres- 
 passers in that case. But while that was a useful and a good lesson, 
 we know from experience in general with lumbermen that if they get 
 some timber from the State, or if they get some from the Federal 
 Government, they not only take what they are allowed to take but 
 they skin it all. The great trouble with the lumber men in our State 
 has been that they do not make any provision for reforestation; 
 they do not leave any matured trees growing. If they would leave 
 5 or 10 per cent of the big pines growing and then clear off the refuse 
 matter and keep the forest fires out, it would reforest itself. They 
 do not do that. They skin the land, take everything down to a tele- 
 graph pole or a fence post and leave aU the rubbish there, and fire 
 gets in and the land grows up to jack oak and poplar and hazel brush, 
 but no pine timber grows there. One of the things here is that this 
 pine can be so handled that the Government will cut the dead and 
 mature timber and leave the balance and protect it so it can be 
 perpetually reforestered. 
 
 Senator Lane. If you can fix it so that the Indians can hold it and 
 have the other for agricultural lands, I am heartily in favor of it. 
 
 Senator Nelson. That is what I am in favor of and nothing but 
 that. ^ 
 
 Senator Geonna. Suppose we put in in line 21, page 31, after the 
 word "sell," the words "mature and merchantable?" 
 
 Senator La Follette. Everything is merchantable. 
 
 Senator Nelson. I would not say "merchantable." I would say 
 "dead, down, and mature timber." 
 
 Senator Lane. What we call ripe timber. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BII.I,. 97 
 
 Senator Nelson. I would suggest those words "dead, down, and 
 mature timber." 
 
 The Chairman. And it might be further amended by putting those 
 words before the word "timber" on line 24. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Mrs. Kellogg. Mr. Chairman, I am heartily in favor of any project 
 that has a conservation feature in it with regard to Indian property, 
 but in our experience with legislation with regard to our property let 
 me remind you of the Dawes bill, which was a most altruistic meas- 
 ure—the Dawes bill that gave us allotments. The inherent idea was 
 to give us final control of the property so we could hold it. Now, as 
 it has actually worked out, it has merely created a title for the 
 exploiter. 
 
 Senator Nelson. That relates to the question of allotments. That 
 is a distinct question. 
 
 Mrs. Kellogg. I am of that attitude toward any project which- 
 relates to our property, but here is a piece of property that I believe 
 involves at least a million and a half dollars, and I believe that any 
 proposed legislation of this nature should be thoroughly looked into 
 by the joint commission which we have and which has done most 
 excellent work for us. Now, if these things that you have stated are 
 just exactly so, as I have no doubt in your opinion they are, and they 
 appeal very strongly to me — if they are so, they can wait until the 
 next session of this committee, and in that time the Indians' council, 
 whose property you are now legislating upon, can be heard, and before 
 a most reliable body of intellectual men who certainly are not moved 
 to recommend things that can not be established by facts. 
 
 Senator White. Have they a council ? 
 
 Mrs. Kellogg. They have a council. Every Indian tribe has a 
 council. 
 
 Senator White. Do you know whether that council has been 
 consulted, Senator? 
 
 Senator Nelson. No; they have no counsel that I know of. 
 There was a man here by the name of Richardson, who used to be 
 a clerk in Senator Clapp's committee; he afterwards quit and became 
 a sort of Indian attorney, and he represented some of those Indians. 
 
 Senator White. I mean a council — a legislative body. 
 
 Senator Nelson. Oh, no; they do not have it; they do not have 
 anything hke you have down in the Indian country. What they 
 do is this, they send out runners and get together a few of the Indians, 
 but they never have any counsel, those Red Lake Indians. What 
 this lady (Mrs. Kellogg) says about allotments is a distinct question. 
 If you want to change the allotment law in any way I have nothing 
 to say on that subject. 
 
 Those allotments will go under the general allotment law with 
 which you are f amihar, Senator White ; you know about the general 
 allotment law; they are entitled to 160 acres of allotments. 
 
 Senator White. Could we not confine the allotments to those 
 lands that you say are agricultural lands by an act of Congress ? 
 
 Senator Nelson. Why it is confined to that reservation. 
 
 Senator White. So they can not enter the timberland now; can 
 we restrict it by legislation ? 
 
 82833— VOL 2 — 15 7 
 
98 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Nelson. If j^ou pass this bill, that amounts to that; you 
 make this a forest reserve, and the rest is left for allotments. 
 
 Senator Lane. Here is another point. In line 20, page 31, it pro- 
 vides: "The said Secretary is hereby authorized to sell stumpage, 
 logs, piling, poles, posts, pmp wood, and other marketable products," 
 etc. That is not matured timber — posts and pulp wood — and that 
 eats up a forest faster than anything else. 
 
 Senator Geonna. That was changed, Senator Lane, to dead and 
 down and matured. 
 
 Senator Lane. And you cut the rest out ? 
 
 Senator Gronna. Yes; we cut that out. 
 
 Senator Nelson. I have no objection to your changing it in any 
 manner. I want that timber saved for the use of the Indians, and I 
 want them to have that agricultural land for allotment. We have 
 had lots of trouble with respect to the Indians. They gave them allot- 
 ments on pine lands over on this reservation — on the White Earth 
 Reservation around Cass Lake — we gave them pine land in the first 
 place, and that land is not good agricultural land. In the next place, 
 the lumbermen got the timber and the Indians could not get it. We 
 want the Indians to take those agricultural lands and have this tim- 
 ber in common for their own use. That is all there is in this bill. I 
 am thoroughly disinterested about it; I have no ax to grind at all. 
 As I said, we had trouble several years ago, and I do not want to see 
 it repeated in Minnesota. 
 
 I thank you, gentlemen. 
 
 ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF NATHAN HEAD, EED lAKE, MINN. 
 
 Mr. Head. I want to call the attention of the committee to the 
 laws that have been passed pertaining to this matter. Under the 
 act of January 14, 1889, each Indian of the Red Lake Reservation 
 was entitled to an allotment of 80 acres each, but the officers of tha 
 Government have never made the allotments to the Indians under 
 said act. Thereafter, on the 10th day of March, 1902, the United 
 States Indian inspector, James McLaughlin, concluded an agreement 
 with the Indians of the Red Lake Reservation, in the State of Minne- 
 sota, which agreement provided for the relinquishment of lands 
 amounting to some 256,152 acres. 
 
 I would like to say that many of the members of the Red Lake 
 Reservation have made application under the act, which is liable to 
 involve lawsuits for them. 
 
 Senator White. What about your people; do they want this done 
 or not ? 
 
 Mr. Head. This forest reserve ? That I could not say. 
 
 Senator White. You have a council? 
 
 Mr. Head. We have a council; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator White. Did it act upon it ? 
 
 Mr. Head. I do not believe they did. They only had a short 
 notice. They got together and made this protest 
 
 Senator Geonna. Is this protest from the members of your council; 
 this telegram? 
 
 Mr. Head. Yes, sir; from the progressives. 
 
 Senator Geonna. That is from the councU — the recognized council 
 of the tribe ? 
 
INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 99 
 
 Mr. Head. Of the tribe; yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do the progressives constitute a majority of 
 your tribe-? 
 
 Mr. Head. I hope so. 
 
 (At this point Senator Clapp entered the room.) 
 
 Senator Clapp. I will say that this provision was adopted after 
 fuU consideration, and upon the recommendation of the department. 
 If the committee cares to hear anything further in behalf of the 
 amendment I wiU be very glad to present it to them. 
 
 Senator Lane. There was a protest handed in with regard to it, in 
 which it was stated that if this went into effect the Indians would be 
 compelled to live in a swampy country which was not drained and 
 which was practically uninhabitable; much of it was, at least. 
 
 Senator Nelson. If you wiU allow me 
 
 Senator Lane. I was just telling Senator Clapp what the protest 
 was. They filed a written protest to that effect and I caUed attention 
 to it. If that is the case it would be a great injustice to those Indians. 
 They also claim that the timber would not be handled for their benefit 
 and the Indians do not wish it done, and they object to it, and I 
 brought the matter to the attention of the committee. I told them 
 if that was the case I would raise a point of order against it. I 
 
 S refer that the committee should hear the matter out. Senator 
 [elson has explained that he wishes only this matured timber cut, 
 to conserve the good timber and keep it perpetually for the benefit 
 of the Indians, and to drain the land and let them have homes down 
 there, and if it is for the general welfare, of course that makes quite a 
 difference. 
 
 The Chairman. With regard to the protest that you presented 
 here, did your council authorize you to read it? 
 
 Mr. Head. No ; I prepared that myself. 
 
 The Chairman. Where did you prepare it? 
 
 Mr. Head. Right down town here. 
 
 The Chairman. You did not bring it here already prepared? 
 
 Mr. Head. No, sir; I did not know anything about it. 
 
 Senator Townsend. How did you happen to come here? 
 
 Mr. Head. I was a delegate from the Chippewas of Minnesota* 
 We had a general council over there — I believe that legislative com- 
 mittee. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I may explain the matter to the committee. Some 
 of the Indians undoubtedly would be opposed to this. There is a 
 certain amount of agricultural land there and there is this timberland. 
 Some of the agricultural land ought to be drained, and at one time 
 during this session we contemplated making a provision for borrowing 
 from the general Chippewa fund in Minnesota an amount to drain this 
 land, but we thought it would be better to have it more carefully 
 surveyed and then possibly borrow from this fund. 
 
 Here is the last large stand of white pine east of the Rocky Moun- 
 tains. I have tried for several years to talk it up with Con ress and 
 get Congress to buy this timber and credit the Indians with it and 
 then turn it over to the Forestry Bureau, but of course Congress would 
 not make the appropriation for that. Then there is only one of two 
 alternatives— either sell it, as we sold all the other pine timber and see 
 it disappear, good, bad, and indifferent, the old. and the young, or 
 adopt the Menominee plan and cut out the old, ripe timber. 
 
100 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Now when this protest was drawn there was some force in one phase 
 of the protest, and that was that the Secretary of the Interior would 
 have unlimited authority to impose upon this timber expenses in the 
 way of mills and other improvements, hut since; that time I have 
 suggested an amendment tliat no expenditure shall be made and no 
 contract shall be incurred except that the Secretary of the Interior 
 shall first submit his estimates to Congress and those estimates shall 
 be approved by Congress. 
 
 Senator Lane. Contracts for the purchase of a mill, do you mean ? 
 
 Senator Ct.app. For mills, or for building roads, or whatever plan 
 you have, which I think is something of an improvement upon the 
 Menominee plan. 
 
 Senator Lane. Are you allowed to sell this timber to outsiders? 
 
 Senator Clapp. They leave him some latitude, whether he wUl 
 designate certain of the timber to cut or whether he wiU put in mills, 
 as tney have done at Menominee. But the. Indians, I think, very 
 justly complain that under the mill proposition the Secretary could 
 load this with a cost that it would yield no return. So, after con- 
 sulting with Mr. Head, I introduced the amendment a few days ago 
 and called the attention of the committee to it. It provides, as 
 I have stated, that before he incurs any expenses, or makes any con- 
 tracts, he must first submit, and annually tliereafter, an estimate to 
 Congress. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you have in mind, Senator, the possibility 
 that the timber may be all milled that is fit to be milled ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. AU that ought to be milled. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Are you intending to preserve the forest 
 there in perpetuity ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is the purpose of this biU to preserve a forest 
 there, as we are doing to-day on the Menominee Reservation in 
 Wisconsin, and that idea was — and I stated it once on the floor of 
 the Senate — one of the most far-reaching, courageous plans that was 
 ever adopted. Senator La FoUette worked out that plan for the 
 Menominee Reservation. 
 
 Now, we safeguard it here by providing that no expenditures shaU 
 be made and no contracts shall be made for expenditure except upon 
 the Secretary's first submitting an estimate to Congress and Congress 
 approving the estimate. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Does your amendment provide. Senator 
 Clapp, that nothing shall be sold upon this reservation except the 
 dead and down timber and the mature timber ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. The mature timber and wood and 
 
 Senator Townsend. I do not think it does. I have read it through 
 very carefully, and I do not think it does so provide. 
 
 Senator Gronna. Have you any objection to the amendment 
 which I proposed in line 21, page 31, after the word "sell" insert 
 the words "dead, down, and matured;" and then to follow that up 
 with the same words in line 24 ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I certainly have no objection to that although the 
 primary purpose, as a matter of course, is to maintain a continuing 
 lumbering operation on this land, but I very gladly accept that 
 language. 
 
 Senator Lane. And cut out the posts. 
 
INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. lOl 
 
 Senator Geonna. I want to ask the commissioner if he has any 
 objection to that language? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; it seems to be very desirable. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is carrying out the purpose of the office. 
 
 Senator Lane. And cut out the posts, too. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I imagine I did not have the right idea. I 
 gathered from what Senator Nelson said that what you intended to 
 do was to make a provision of law whereby that agricultural land oii 
 each side of the lake could be allotted for farming purposes, and that 
 the other portion, oh the west and south sides of that lake, which is 
 forest, as I understand it, should be kept as a forest reserve and 
 reforested as a sort of Indians' playground and hunting gromid a.nd 
 fishing groimd, something of that kind exclusively for the Indians. 
 
 Senator Clapp. That would be involved in it, of course. 
 
 Senator Townsend. There was something attractive about that, 
 although I could not see particularly why it was necessary to pass 
 this legislation to do that. If we simply said you shall allot the 
 Indians only on the agricultural land on each side of the lake, and the 
 balance of it shall be held for a forest reserve for the benefit of the 
 Indians 
 
 Senator Clapp. Because I presume we are losing — the Indians are 
 losing — well, it would be a mere estimate, but I should say $100,000 
 a year, because we have note been able heretofore to come to an 
 understandmg with reference to the plan for taking out the ripe tim- 
 ber and the dead and down timber which ought to be taken out. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I see that clearly, and have been in sympathy 
 with the Menominee proposition and working out that experiment, but 
 I thought it would be better to let that run along sufficiently to know 
 whether they are going to make anything out of it for the Indians, 
 if it costs as much as the land was worth. We have learned some 
 excellent lessons from the Menominee plan. Let us work that scheme 
 out. I want a provision to hold this forest intact for the Indians, 
 and let them have the land on the other side, but until you work that 
 plan out it seems to me that we are leaping in the dark. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The trouble with that is, it seems to me, that by 
 requiring the Secretary of the Interior to submit his estimates in 
 advance we can then determine upon the matter. 
 
 Senator Townsend. That has not been mentioned until you 
 came in. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I suggested it the other day. I expect you were 
 not in the room. 
 
 Senator Lane. There is another thing about it. You gave him the 
 right to lease camping privileges. 
 
 Senator Townsend. And the Indian himself has to acquire the 
 right, as I read it, before doing that. He can not go in and camp 
 until he gets permission. 
 
 Senator Clapp. He has to get permission outside of his allotment. 
 He is given a 10-year permit. No one else is allowed but a 3-year 
 permit. Of course, outside of his individual allotment it is question- 
 able how much right he would have in here to the exclusion of the 
 other Indians of the tribe. But the idea is to prevent him rushing 
 in with a claim that some got it to the exclusion of others ; that was 
 the reason for inserting this permit matter. 
 
102 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator White. Is there anything in your amendment which 
 prevents the white man from entering upon the land and using it for 
 camping purposes or for any other purpose ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No; he can camp on it with a permit by the Sec- 
 retary of the Interior. 
 
 Senator Lane. That was the trouble. Under that I notice he 
 could lease the right to somebody to go in there and erect a road house 
 or put up a summer camping resort or a hotel, with a lot of booze, 
 and fish on the lake. 
 
 Senator White. And burn up all the dead timber. 
 
 Senator Lane. But the Indian has to get a permit. 
 
 Senator Clapp. So does the white man have to get a permit. 
 
 Senator Lane. But there goes it with influences which are bad for 
 the Indian. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not desire to make any particular point 
 about it, but I think it is infinitely better to have the permit system. 
 It is better that some white men should go in 
 
 Senator Lane. It is better that most of them be kept out — better 
 for the Indians. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I do not care; strike it out. 
 
 Senator Nelson. I would like to say that under an old treaty 
 with these Indians it is provided that no hquor shall be sold, and the 
 case has lately gone to the Supreme Court of the United States, and 
 they have indorsed the treaty, and nearly all the towns around this 
 Indian reservation in Minnesota have become dry under that decision 
 of the Supreme Court, and this would necessarily be dry, would it not ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Certainly; this whole territory would be dry. 
 
 Senator White. Would there be anything to hinder the white man 
 from going in there and taking hquor and distributing it to the 
 Indians ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Certainly; you can not go in there to-day in that 
 territory with hquor. That is aU covered by the treaties, and the 
 treaties have never been repealed. The Federal courts aU the way 
 up to the Supreme Court have sustained the treaties, and that whole 
 section to-day is dry. There are towns there of six or seven thousand 
 that are dry under those old treaties. 
 
 Senator White. And the white men could not go in there and 
 drmk? 
 
 Senator Nelson. Not unless they violate the law. That is true 
 in the country that is adjacent to this. 
 
 Senator Lane. They were talking a little while ago about the 
 pitiful condition of the Blackfeet IndiansJ the naked children, etc., 
 yet on that reservation, on the Indians' lands, there is a trader's 
 establishment there — a little town and rather a prosperous place, 
 and three or four of the finest big stores that you ever saw, fiUed 
 with all kinds of goods, $80,000 to $100,000 of merchandise, run bv 
 a prosperous white man, with bootleggers coming up the radroad. 
 They caught one the day I was there. One fellow came in with, I 
 think it was, 80 quarts — at least, a big lot of it — and went to a dance. 
 The Indians were going to have a dance and that crook shpped in 
 there and went around with pint and quart bottles amongst the 
 Indians to get them drunk. The whites were doing well, but the 
 Indians were not; they were in a pitiful condition. 
 
JK-piAK AI^PEOPRIATIO-K. BILt. 103 
 
 . Senator White. On the forest reserves can they rent that land 
 for grazing purposes ? 
 
 ' Senator Clapp. You can not rent this land for grazing purposes: 
 ..this is not meant for a forest reserve; it is simply within the control 
 of the Secretary of the Interior only so far as uiis particular amend- 
 ment gives him control. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What is it that you propose to lease there ? 
 , Senator Clapp, To give permits to go in and camp. 
 
 Senator Townsend. You say for grazing purposes. What land 
 are you going to lease for grazing purposes ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. We do not lease any land for grazing purposes. 
 . Senator Townsend. It is so stated; I read it. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Then strike it out. 
 
 Senator Lane. What are they going there to camp for? 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is a beautiful camping country around those 
 lakes, especially in the siunmertime, in those forests, and personally 
 I think it is a great mistake if you do not aUow them to go in and 
 camp. But fix it any way you like. 
 
 Senator White. I do not think it is a wise plan to let the white 
 people go in and crowd the Indians out. 
 
 Senator Clapp. They can not crowd them out. 
 
 Senator White. The white man has always crowded them out 
 wherever he has come in contact with them. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Because he has had an opportunity to acquire 
 title to the property. Here he can not do that. 
 
 Senator White. But he can go in there and camp and catch all 
 the fiish and destroy all the fishing and create conditions unfavorable 
 to the Indian life. It occurs to me that to let the white man go in 
 there is simply opening up a nice fishing resort for white people all 
 over the country. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I had not thought about some white man catching 
 all the fish in the two Red Lakes. 
 
 Senator White. I did not say any white man. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Of any 500 men. 
 
 Senator White. I do not suppose one man could do it. I Icnow 
 that on the bays in Alabaina and Mississippi they are catching all 
 the fish down there. 
 ' Senator Clapp. What is it that you want stricken out? 
 
 Senator Townsend. Have you looked into this matter, Mr. 
 Meritt ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we have looked into it carefully in the 
 department and the department has submitted a favorable report 
 upon the legislation. 
 
 Senator White. Who suggested it, Mr. Meritt? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The Senator from Minnesota, Mr. Nelson. We worked 
 it out after consulting Senator Nelson. 
 
 Senator Townsend. I do not feel like criticizing it too much, 
 because I confess that this is the first time my attention has been 
 called to it. Of course it is my fault, but it looks to me as though 
 there are a great many protests that are inconsistent with the plan 
 that was outlined by Senator Nelson, who presented it for the first 
 time in my hearing. This is the first time I have heard it discussed, 
 and it seems that there are provisions that are absolutely inconsistent 
 with those objects. 
 
104 INDIAN appbopbia.tio;n bill. 
 
 Senator Clapp. For years we have been confronted with the facts 
 that here was a large body of pine — the largest body of that size east 
 of the Rocky Mountains. We tried that Cass Lake forestry plan of 
 Belling the pine and reserving 10 per cent for reforestation. It is a 
 question as to the success of that. We found that the Indians were 
 losing this pine every year because there was pine that was ripe, 
 dead, and down, and ought to be cut. The Indians are very anxious 
 to have the Government appraise this pine and credit them with it, 
 and then do whatever the Government saw fit to do with it. The Gov- 
 ernment would not make the appropriation. I have been working 
 at that for years and could not get anywhere with it. The next best 
 
 f)lan was to preserve the conditions of one certain area. If it includes 
 and that ought really to be agricultural land that can easily be 
 remedied hereafter and provide for the sale of such timber as ought 
 to be sold, that has outgrown its usefulness — dead and down and 
 matured timber — and continue this pine there, along the line of the 
 Menominee plan. 
 
 We got that far and these Indians very properly, I think, came to 
 me and said, "There is no limitation on the expenditure that the 
 Secretary may make. He may absorb this in mills, roads, and such 
 things." I told them the point was well taken. I came over here 
 and the next day put the amendment in which requires the Secretary 
 to make his estimate, and the estimate be approved before any 
 expenditure or any contracts involving expenditures can be made. 
 
 The Chaiemax. Is there any objection to striking out the word 
 "grazing," in line 16, page 32 ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. With regard to the amendment on page 31, 
 I imderstand that after the word "sell" on hne 21, the words "dead, 
 down, and matured timber" have been inserted. 
 
 The Chairman. That is correct. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I do not know whether other words have 
 been stricken out or not. If not, I suggest to Senator Clapp, for his 
 consideration, and the consideration of the committee, striking out 
 the words "stumpage, logs, piling, poles, posts, pulp wood, and other 
 marketable products." 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I understand that after the word "the," in 
 line 24, at the end of the line, the words "dead, down, and matured," 
 have been inserted. 
 
 The Chairman. That is correct. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Then, to meet the objections that have 
 been made by Senator White and others, I would suggest, Senator 
 Clapp, whether you would be willing on line 15, page 32, after the 
 word "purposes" to strike out .the sentence "Under his direction 
 permits may be issued or leases executed of lands for grazing, camp- 
 ing, or other purposes." 
 
 Senator Clapp. I have no objection, although I think we are making 
 a great mistake in doing it. I think we are making a great mistake 
 in prohibiting the sale of posts and ties and the worthless stuff there. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Then you will get the young timber. : 
 
 Senator Clapp. They do not make ties of young tiinber. 
 
 The Chairman. The words on line 17, beginning "no permit shall 
 be issued, etc., down to the words "ten years," on line 19, have been 
 stricken out. 
 
INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 105 
 
 : Senator Townsend. Mi-. Meritt, do you have in your mind a per- \i 
 petual forest there for the Indians ? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Townsend. If you get that worked out I agree with Senator 
 Uapp that you may be cutting things there that would mean waste 
 mstead of conservation. As to some of the timber that you cut 
 down, can not part of that be used for sawing timber and part of 
 posts and something else? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I should think so. 
 
 Senator Townsend. What I understand you are trying to do is to 
 confine this to timber that ought to be cut because it is dead and 
 down or matured, and all by-products of it that can be used for 
 anything else with reference to that timber should be made mar- 
 ketable. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. In our experience in connection with the Menominee 
 project we find that there are certain by-products that can be used 
 to the advantage of the Indians. 
 
 Senator Townsend. If you are going to prune it too much are you 
 not going to leave some stuff in the woods that ou^ht to be marketred ? 
 
 Senator White. I think you can take down all the timber that is 
 dead, all that is down, and all the timber that is ripe — and that means 
 all of it, not only 40 feet to the first limb, but the entire tree. 
 
 Senator La Follett. You can use aU of it that is suitable for tim- 
 ber and for posts. 
 
 Senator White. Are you guarding this against j^ermittees or les- 
 sees taking all this place; you say they wdl destroy it all. 
 
 The Chairman. The Secretary is authorized under the rules which 
 he promulgates to prescribe certain cutting. Those rules are well 
 defined and have been worked out for a number of years, first by the 
 Secretary of the Interior and then by the Secretary of Agriculture. 
 They require so many seed trees on every acre, what is called the 
 slashings. That is what that language refers to. They are the most 
 efficient well-known and approved scientific and modern methods of 
 forestry. 
 
 Senator White. Is any provision made for supervision to see that 
 he does that? 
 
 The Chairman. No more than would be made with respect to any 
 duty that is allotted to him. 
 
 Senator White. But the remark has been made here that if he 
 turns these mill men in there, they will cut it aU. If there is not 
 somebody there to supervise the permittee, who is a mill man, that 
 he can take what he pleases. 
 
 Senator Clapp. He goes there under the direction of the Secretary 
 of the Interior the same as he would go on a forest reserve, precisely. 
 The chances are that is what the department wants to do and if 
 they can bring their figures within what we can recognize they will 
 do this lumbering themselves as the Forestry Bureau is doing it on 
 the Menominee Reservation. 
 
 Senator White. Then there wiU be somebody to supervise timber 
 taking. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes; that is one trouble with regard to this thing. 
 There will be plenty of men up there to supervise it. That is what 
 the Indians justly complain of, and that is why we put this provision 
 in against contracts without being approved by Congress. 
 
106 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BttL. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The cutting of the timber will be supervised under 
 carefully guarded regulations prescribed by the Secretary of the 
 Interior. 
 
 The Chairman. Each tree is marked. 
 
 Senator White. I am not familiar with these matters, and simply 
 desire information. 
 
 The Chairman. I suggest the insertion of the words "without 
 charge" after the word "Indians." 
 
 Senator Townsend. What does that mean ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. So that they get their fuel without charge, 
 
 Senator White. They should be allowed to use whatever timber 
 they need for building. 
 
 Senator Page. You are liable to get into trouble if you do that. 
 
 Senator Clapp. This property belongs to aU the Indians. No one 
 Indian would get anything out of this reserve that is very much out 
 of keeping with what the other Indians get. 
 
 Senator White. I understand that, but he ought to be allowed to 
 do that. It is property that is owned in common, like common 
 pasturage. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It is now; yes. 
 
 Senator White. That contemplates, of course, if they could get 
 the timber for necessary domestic purposes— firewood, fencing, and 
 houses. It occurs to me that would be a necessary right belonging 
 to common property. 
 
 Senator Clapp. The sharp, shrewd fellow would get the whole lot 
 and the others would not get any. The purpose is to turn this over 
 to the Secretary, who will see that they are all treated alike in this 
 matter. 
 
 Senator White. If he has discretion to let them go and get it, all 
 right. 
 
 The Chairman. This follows the regulation of the Forestry Bureau 
 very fully. 
 
 Senator Lane. I understand you have omitted the grazing 
 feature. 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. 
 
 Senator Lane. And you have cut the camping feature out. 
 
 Senator White. I think the camping is about as bad as the 
 grazing. 
 
 The Chairman. The Senator from Wisconsin suggested that the 
 following be stricken out in line 17, "but no permit shall be issued 
 for a longer term than one year." 
 
 Senator La Follette. Clear down to the end of line 19, because 
 that goes with the other. 
 
 The Chairman. That is out. 
 
 Senator La Follette. So that line 15, after the word "purposes," 
 is all stricken out, and lines 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20, page 32. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. I think it should go down to line 6 on page 33. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think you are making some very serious mistakes 
 with the bin. We worked it out. 
 
 Senator Lane. What mistakes do you think we are making? 
 
 Senator Clapp. I think you are making a mistake to prohibit the 
 sale of the posts and ties. There is a lot of spruce and tamarack that 
 ought to be gotten out of that country. 
 
 Senator Lane. You had a reservation up there somewhere and the 
 lessees or permittees got over the line onto the next fellow's land and 
 
INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. lOT 
 
 used his timber, and now you are around counting the stumps to see 
 how much he had stolen there from the Indians. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. On the Bad River Reservation in Wisconsin we have 
 settled that question, and he has paid something like $8,000. 
 
 Senator Lane. The department compounded, I guess, what was a 
 felony and settled it. They ought to have been prosecuted for 
 stealing. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. The lumber company claimed they did that. 
 
 Senator Page. That kind of proceeding is not pecuhar to Wisconsin. 
 
 Senator Lane. I know it is not. I was afraid we would get into the 
 same condition. If you had somebody up there who did not look 
 out for the interest of the Indian, he would allow the thing to go on. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. They wiU have to pay full value for all the stumpage 
 under this legislation. 
 
 Senator White. FuU value would not compensate for the loss of the 
 timber. We want to keep the timber there except that which is going^ 
 to waste. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is the purpose of the bdl, to conserve the Indian 
 forests for the benefit of the Indians ; but the lumber that is sold will 
 be paid for at full value and the Indians will get the benefit of it. 
 
 Senator White. WiU they get something they are not intended t& 
 have? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Not at aU. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Is there any timber to be conserved except the 
 pine? 
 
 Mr. Meritt. Pine is the principal thing. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Are you proposing to protect anything but 
 the pine ? 
 
 Mr. He.^d. There is a great deal of cedar and tamarack that ought 
 to be conserved. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you want to save that tamarack and 
 cedar ? 
 
 Mr. Head. The cedar ought to be thrown into the market. 
 
 Senator Townsend. Do you want to keep that or sell that — your 
 tamarack, spruce, and cedar? 
 
 Senator Lane. The mature tamarack. 
 
 Mr. Head. It ought to be sold. 
 
 Senator Lane. And the young ought to be allowed to grow up for 
 the forest. 
 
 Senator Gronna. The biU takes care of that young timber, and the 
 dead and down and matured timber can be sold. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes ; and tamarack and cedar it is contemplated 
 shall be cut for posts and poles, preserving as a forestry proposition 
 only the pine upon the land. 
 
 Senator Lane. Is not that cedar timber worth more per thousand 
 feet than pine ; is it not more valuable ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. Oh, not up there. n , • .r. 
 
 Senator White. That timber that you speak ot that is not worth 
 anything as timber, would it not be valuable as firewood, and would 
 it not be well to keep it for the Indians in the future ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. No; there is a whole lot of timber on that reserva- 
 tion that will make posts and poles, and I think the department and 
 the Indians will agree with me it ought to be sold and disposed of. 
 
108 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILt. 
 
 Mr. Meritt. That is true. ■ " 7 
 
 Senator Clapp. The purpose is to preserve the pine forests there, 
 ■cutting the dead, down, and matured pine. 
 
 Senator Towxsend. That is a very good object, there is no question 
 about that. 
 
 Senator Clapp. There is a lot of stuff up on the land that is not 
 very desirable — scraggly cedar and tamarack, and some without 
 cedar, but I think everybody will agree that it would work in harmony 
 with the general plan of preserving the pine forest if it was taken out 
 and sold. That is why posts and these other things were inserted. 
 
 Senator White. What kind of wood do they use for firewood ? 
 
 Mr. Head. Mostly hardwood — maple and birch. 
 
 (The amendment was agreed to.) 
 
 Senator Clapp. You will have to commence on line 17, after the 
 word "purposes," and strike out to the bottom, line 6, page 33. 
 
 (The item was agreed to.) 
 
 CROW INDIAN RESERVATION. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I wish to return for a moment to the portion 
 of the bill which deals with the Crow Indian Reservation. It will not 
 be necessary for Senators to find the particular item in the bill, as we 
 adopted an amendment here to-day which reads as follows: 
 
 Provided, That hereafter no tribal grazing lease or permit on the t'row Reservation 
 shall be approved by the Secretary of the Interior vrithoiit first procuring the consent 
 of a majority of the members of a council regularly called by said Indians. 
 
 I wish to propose an amendment to be added to that. Immediately 
 following the word "Indians," in the amendment which I have just 
 read, which was adopted this afternoon, add the following: 
 
 Provided further, That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized 
 and directed, upon the application of any Indian allottee on said Crow Reservation, 
 to build a fence in full compliance with the laws of Montana, sufficient to hold or 
 turn all stock, inclosing the allotment of any Indian allottee, the same to be reim- 
 bursed out of any distributive tribal funds to which said Indian may be entitled; 
 and such Indian allottee shall be permitted to lease his allotted lands when so fenced 
 as aforesaid for a term not exceeding five years to any person or persons desiring to 
 lease the same without interference on the part of any Government official. And be 
 it further provided. That any lessee of allotted Indian lands on said Indian reservation 
 shall be required to maintain said fence in good repair on the allotted lands so leased; 
 and the Secretary of the Interior shall have the power, in case of any unfair treatment 
 of the lessor by the lessee, to cancel or revise said lease. Natural guardians having 
 the care and custody of minors or incompetent persons may make application, execute 
 the lease above provided for, collect the rents, and do and perform all acts on bahalf 
 of such minors or incompetent persons which are herein provided to be done or per- 
 formed by said Indian allottee, and there is hereby appropriated sufficient money, 
 out of any tribal funds which are now or may hereafter be available, to carry out the 
 provisions herein, said tribal funds to be reimbursed under such rules and regula- 
 tions as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. 
 
 Senator Lane. I second that. 
 
 The Chairman. It is proposed to add that amendment relating to 
 the Crows in Montana, which item appears on page 38. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Following the amendment adopted earlier 
 in the day ? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes; following the amendment adopted earlier in 
 the day. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 109 
 
 . Senator White. Senator La FoUette, was something said to you a 
 while ago about an amendment requiring the lessees to pay for allotted 
 land— for the use of allotted land « 
 
 Senator La FoLLETTE. Yes; I prepared such an amendment as 
 that; but upon further consideration I thought this was a safer 
 amendrnent to be adopted, for the reason that the authorization of 
 the leasing of these allotments within the leased area for grazing pur- 
 poses would confirm the right of the Government to lease those 
 allotted lands without the consent of the allottees; and it occurred 
 to me that if these Indians could be permitted to deal with their prop- 
 erty in this way, which is perfectly safe, they can not part with the 
 title to it. They will get a little experience in handling their own 
 property in a very small way in leasing their allotments for grazing 
 purposes. 
 
 Senator White. I think that is a good idea. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And that will take out of these large leased 
 areas that portion of their property which is allotted and wiU prevent 
 the abuse of their rights by leasing against their wiU to those cattle 
 companies their allotments. 
 
 Senator White. That is aU right for those who elect to have their 
 lands fenced. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I think thej'- will all elect to have their lands 
 fenced. 
 
 Senator White. If any should not elect to have their land fenced — 
 there may be minors and others who can not elect ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. I have provided for that by providing that 
 their natural guardian ma}- elect for them — that is, for the minors and 
 incompetents. 
 
 Senator White. Is it reasonably sure that aU those who hold in 
 severalty will elect ? 
 
 Senator La Follette. That is my information. They are very 
 much interested in this proposition, and if we find in another year 
 that it has not worked out satisfactorily we can change it. 
 
 Senator White. What I wanted to work out was the permits to 
 allottees to use this allotted land without paying anything for it 
 and against the will of the owner. In other words, allowing the 
 lessees to appropriate the land of the allottee for the use of it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Yes; I beheve this will do that. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 The Chairman. The question, now, is on reporting the bill finally 
 and favorably. Is there anything else that any Senator desires to 
 suggest ? 
 
 Senator Owen. I move that the biU be now reported. 
 
 contract of J. r. m'mURRAY with CHOCTAW and CHICKASAW 
 
 nations. 
 
 Senator Thompson. Mr. Chairman, the subcommittee appointed 
 to consider the matter of the contract of J. F. McMurray has not 
 been able to reach what we might call a unanimous verdict. I think 
 Senator Clapp and I have agreed upon an amendment that should 
 be made, but we have not had time to prepare the exact language. 
 
 Senator Myers. I ask that the Senator state it in substance, and 
 it can be incorporated in the bill. 
 
110 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 
 
 (Serfator Thompson read as follows :) 
 
 The Court of Claims is hereby authorized and directed to hear, consider, and adjudi- 
 cate all claims of J. F. McMurray as the assignee of the firm of Mansfield, McMurray 
 and Cornish against the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations of Indians, or either of them, 
 for all professional services rendered, expenses incurred, and disbursements made on 
 behalf of said nations prior to March fourth, nineteen hundred and seven, with inter- 
 est from date of such services or payments on all amounts found due at the legal ratea 
 prevailing at the time and place of the transactions involved, and to render judgment 
 in such amount as may be equitable and just, which judgment, if any, against said 
 nations shall be paid by the Treasurer of the United States out of any of the funds of 
 said nations as their interest majr appear: Provided, That as to any claim so sued upon 
 the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, or either of them, shall be permitted to interpose 
 all proper defense by way of counterclaim or set-off, and the filing of such suit by J. F. 
 McMurray shall be deemed to be a waiver of the statute of limitations to any claim 
 against him or as assignee, and the answers thereto on behalf of said nations shall be 
 held to be a waiver of the statute of limitations as to any claims against them: Andpro- 
 vided further , That any amount found to be owing by the said J. F. McMurray to said 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations may be offset against such claims and deducted from 
 any amount found to be due him thereon; and notice of the filing of such suit shall be 
 served upon the principal chief of the Choctaw Nation and the governor of the Chicka- 
 saw Nation, and said nations shall be represented therein by the attorneys for said 
 nations, respectively, and by the Attorney General of the United States: Provided, 
 That the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations or the said J. F. McMurray or Mansfield, 
 McMurray and Cornish may, within ninety days after the decision of said Court of 
 Claims, take an appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States, 
 
 Senator Myers. I move that it be adopted. 
 
 Senator White. I have not heard of that before. What is it ? 
 
 The Chairman. Mr. McMurray, who was formerly a member of the 
 firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, came before our committee 
 six days ago and submitted a matter which was of some importance 
 to him, and a subcommittee was appointed to look into the question. 
 I presume you were not present when Mr. McMurray made his 
 statement? 
 
 Senator White. No; this is the first I have heard of it. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I suggest that the chairman of the sub- 
 committee make a statement covering the whole case. 
 
 Senator Thompson. I would not be able to do that in the limited 
 time that we have, because the matter has been argued at some 
 length. But as I understand the matter, the firm of Mansfield, 
 McMurray & Cornish had a contract with these Indians for $27,500, 
 which was approved by the department, for the bringing of certain 
 suits in the sum of $606,000, which they prosecuted in the Court of 
 Claims. 
 
 Mr. McMurray. Yes, sir. 
 
 Senator Thompson. And obtained judgment, and they have never 
 been paid this amount. They have a contract. The Choctaw and 
 Chickasaw Nations claim some offset against this amount, and they 
 already have a judgment against Mr. McMurray for $14,000, I under- 
 stand, and in that suit he was unable to make any defense, as is 
 represented here; at least was unable to make a set-off, because he 
 was not authorized to do so by law. Now, the idea of the committee 
 was to permit him to make his defense and to permit these Indians 
 of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations to set up any claim they 
 might have in addition to the $14,000 against this fee, and settle the 
 whole matter for all time to come, as soon as practicable. I under- 
 stand it has come up a great many times and it ought to be settled 
 in the Court of Claims, or some court ought to be given power de 
 
INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. Ill 
 
 novo to inquire into all these transactions between the firm of 
 Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish and the nations. 
 
 As far as I am concerned I think it is but fair and right that it 
 should be decided by some court. 
 
 Senator White. Is this a proper place to put an amendment of 
 that kind — on an appropriation bill ? — Ought that not be the subject 
 of independent legislation? Under the riiles, we are not allowed, as 
 I understand it, to put such matter upon appropriation bills, and I 
 do not see why we should open up litigation that could certainly be 
 covered by an independent bill, where it could be given proper con- 
 sideration. I do not think this is a proper course right at the closing 
 moments of the committee's work. 
 _ Senator Fall. This committee appointed a subcommittee to con- 
 sider the matter. 
 
 Senator White. I was unfortunate not to have the benefit of that 
 and I am absolutely opposed to it. 
 
 Senator Thompson. 1 his is a matter that was presented to the full 
 committee. 
 
 Senator White. I do not think it is a proper place to put such 
 legislation. 
 
 Mr. McMxiRRAY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I will briefly explain 
 this. Here is a contract made by those two tribes of Indians with 
 the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish to prosecute said legisla- 
 tion relative to the land allotted to the Chickasaw Freedmen and 
 other nations, and they agreed that they would pay this firm 6 per 
 cent of all moneys which might be recovered. They made these con- 
 tracts, and they were brought here and filed with the Secretary of 
 the Interior and the Secretary of the Interior approved them, but 
 provided that the fee should not exceed $23,500 in any event. 
 
 Now, that fee would have been subject to be paid, but this com- 
 mittee in its wisdow saw fit a few years ago to put a clause in the 
 Indian appropriation biU that no funds of the Indians should be paid 
 out without a specific appropriation. That puts us in the position 
 of having done the work, and havine done it successfully, without 
 compensation. It was appealed to the Supreme Court, it was fol- 
 lowed there and we had it confirmed, and I went before the Committee 
 on Appropriations and got the money appropriated, and it has been 
 paid, $606,000, and this is following out the law. The Secretary has 
 the fund and it can not be paid. 
 
 Senator White. Is there any reason why an independent bill 
 could not be introduced to provide for this ? 
 
 Mr. McMiiRRAT. I do not know of any, but I do know that an 
 independent bill would require me to stay here aU the session, and I 
 have something else to do. If I do not stay here, nothing would be 
 done about it. The authority upon which this suit was brought was 
 in the Indian appropriation bill in 1902, and the Secretary of the 
 Interior came before this committee — I think Senator Clapp wOl 
 remember that Senator Hitchcock came before this committee and 
 proposed the bringing of the suit because he said it could not prevail. 
 
 Senator White, ifave these Indian tribes any representative here ? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes; Mr. Bond appeared before the committee. 
 
 Senator Clapp. One of these tribes is represented by counsel and 
 the other counsel is sick. But we have agreed here that all matters 
 which the Indians may claim against the firm, as well as against Mr. 
 
112 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 McMurray, may be included in this, and with that addition it is very 
 difficult to see how the Indians can possibly suffer by it. In answer- 
 to your question, I may say that one of the tribes is represented and 
 the representative of that tribe has no objection to the amendment.' 
 The other trilse is not represented, as the counsel is sick. 
 
 Mr. McMuREAY. I want to say further for the Senators' informa- 
 tion that last summer the Secretary of the Interior asked me to come: 
 here and take it up with them, and we had seven night meetings with 
 the Secretary of the Interior and the attorneys for the nations. We 
 considered it for seven nights and now for six weeks I have been with 
 the Interior Department threshing this matter out to determine 
 whether or not this suit ought to be brought, and the Secretary of the 
 Interior has reported in a Tetter that suit should be brought; that it 
 ought to be reconsidered in a proper forum, and that the Court of 
 Claims is the proper forum. 
 
 Senator Fall. Has not the Secretary of the Interior written a 
 letter to the committee in which he suggests the matter go to the 
 Court of Claims ? 
 
 The ChxVirman. Yes; that was read to the committee. 
 
 Senator White. What does the representative of the tribe say? 
 
 Senator Robinson. He has been heard. 
 
 Senator White. What does he say ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. I can not repeat what he said in a few minutes. 
 
 Senator La Follette. He is present, and I suggest that he be 
 heard. 
 
 Mr. Bond. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I have 
 stated several times that as the representative of the tribe I do not 
 want to appear in the capacity of originating legislation that would 
 involve my tribe in litigation. The guardianship of my tribe is in 
 Congress and the Secretary of the Interior through Congress exer- 
 cises the supervisory control of my tribe, and if they think my tribe 
 has matters that should be determined in the Court of Claims, I am 
 ready to try them out. 
 
 Senator Page. As to the form of this amendment, does the amend- 
 ment as offered suit you as attorney for the tribe 1 
 
 Mr. Bond. Yes, sir, if amended as suggested. 
 
 Senator White. Do you, as representative of the tribe, think this 
 ought to be paid ? 
 
 Mr. Bond. I have not had the opportunity to go into the records 
 carefully enough to ascertain. They are voluminous and cover 
 many years and are not all in the department. But I wiU say this, 
 if it is going to be submitted to the court, the court should determine 
 that question. 
 
 Senator Robinson. Certainly. Whatis the objection to permitting 
 the court to pass upon the whole matter ? 
 
 Senator White. My objection is that it puts a rider on an appro- 
 priation biU that we have not had time to consider. 
 
 Senator Robinson. I suggest that the Senator might have made 
 that objection before these prolonged hearings on the matter were 
 concluded. We sat here and Mstened for a full day in a hearing on 
 this matter, and we finally agreed that a subcommittee should be 
 appointed to further consider it and report back to the fuU committee. 
 
 Senator White. Probably I am to blame for not having been here. 
 
INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 113 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not wish to pass a judgment upon the 
 Senator. 
 
 Senator White. At the same time I am not going to consent to) 
 this because I do not think it is the place for it. 
 
 Mr. McMuRRAY. Mr. Chairman, there is one clause put in here — 
 that is the part of it that refers to J. F. McMurray of tlie firm of 
 Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish. The matters of Mansfield, McMur- 
 ray & Cornish were settled 10 years ago. I have here the pleadings 
 in a suit that was filed in the Supreme Court of the District of Colum- 
 bia in a certain case 10 years ago. This firm has been dissolved. 
 We have not worked for these people since 1907. On these very 
 expenses the firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish were indicted — ■ 
 indicted not because the moneys had not been spent, but because 
 the moneys were spent under the direction of the tribes instead of 
 under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior. After thorough 
 and complete and fuU investigation these indictments were dismissed, 
 and there are reports on the matter in which they say that the money 
 was spent and every dollar of it was accounted for in accounts filed 
 with the legislature of the nation, and every dollar of it approved. 
 Now after that we were sued by the Department of Justice for $42,000 
 of this money. That 142,000 named in the suit was pending for years. 
 
 The Attorney General asked me to come forward and take the 
 matter up with him, which I did, and after six weeks I submitted all 
 the cases we had. The Attorney General said this was a suit which 
 ought not to have been brought; that this money had been spent 
 and had been wisely and well spent. 
 
 Now, it does seem to me that going back into these old things, 
 away back 10 years ago, that they are not matters pending here 
 at all; that they have been settled. I read letters here the other day 
 wherein the Secretary of the Interior said these expenses were being 
 made under the direction of the nations, and it is not such a matter 
 as comes before us, and now for us to have to go and figure out these 
 expenses which have been made these 10, 12, or 15 years ago, I do 
 not think it ought to be done. I do not think that is the proper thing 
 to do. The Secretary said in that letter that these are matters the 
 Indians had. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs said the same thing, 
 As I said to you the other day there was $47,000 spent in collecting 
 these taxes. When we had finished the expenditure of that money 
 the Secretary asked that we make an accounting. I brought every 
 check and voucher and everything connected with it, more than a 
 bushel of papers, and submitted them to the Interior Department. 
 Since we have been making this investigation I have asked them to 
 search for those papers and bring them up here, and they have 
 searched for days, but have not brought them. Would I not be in 
 fine condition ? They have checked them ah out, O. K'd them, and 
 they have all the papers, but they teU me they are not there at all. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I feel a good deal of sjrmpathy with the position 
 yotr take. On the other hand, I have sympathy with the attitude 
 of Mr. WTnite. We come in here at the last moment, and I reahze 
 the difficulty of getting legislation through the two Hoiises, and in 
 view of that I am willing to favor this amendment, provided we put 
 that clause in there. If there are no claims against the firm of Mans- 
 • field, McMurray & Cornish, it does no harm. But, out of extra caution 
 
 82833 — ^VOL 2 — 15 8 
 
114 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 
 
 and realizing theforce of what you say, I realize it is perhaps going 
 some ways to put it in; but nevertheless, closing this matter at this 
 time, I feel that out of extra caution we should put it in. That is 
 my reason for inserting it in the amendment. 
 
 Mr. McMuREAY. Senator, would it not, then, be proper to say 
 these matters, unless they have been adjusted by the departments 
 or the courts ? 
 
 Senator Clapp. If they had been adjusted by the department, and 
 that adjustment was a legal adjustment, it was final. If they had 
 heen adjusted by the courts, and that adjustment is legal, it is final. 
 
 Mr. McMuERAY. Suppose, Senator — 10 years ago they set this 
 same business up. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I know it. I am perfectly familiar with every 
 step of all this matter; but I do feel, Mr. McMurray, harsh as it may 
 seem to you (and I realize your criticism of this thing) , that putting this 
 thing on at this time, if there are no claims that those Indians have 
 against that firm it can do no harm. If there are claims, if we open 
 this thing up in the Court of Claims I think we should include those. 
 
 Mr. McMiiRKAY. Let me make this one further suggestion: There 
 is a law now on the statute books by means of which this Government 
 can sue Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, and they did sue them under 
 that law. 
 
 Senator Clapp. Yes. 
 
 Mr. McMltrray. Why should it be put in here when there is a law ? 
 It gives them the right to sue Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish to-day. 
 I can not sue them, but they can sue us to-day. They need no new 
 law. They have a law under which they can come and sue Mansfield, 
 McMurray & Cornish, and they have sued us and thrashed that out 
 years ago, and said that this was inequitable; that it ought not be 
 brought, and that it will be dismissed, and they dismissed it. A man 
 drags around over these things until he gets tired of it. 
 
 Senator Clapp. I know it, but here is this trouble, Mr. McMurray. 
 Senator White is right in one sense. If it were possible to get these 
 matters through the House, I would not look with so much leniency 
 upon putting that on this bill at all. It should have gone in there; 
 it should have been thrashed out there. Now at the last moment we 
 are asked to put this on here. There is no way you can get your 
 offset unless Congress does change the law allowing the offset, and 
 it seems to me that it was a wise precaution to add to this that they 
 can also bring in any legal claim they have got against the firm of 
 Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish. If they have not got any, it can not 
 do any harm. That matter has been settled by the department, and 
 settled legally, under legal authority, which is final. The action of 
 the court, wherever it has been legal, is final. It is simply out of 
 extra caution that Senator Thompson and I felt 
 
 Senator Robinson. Why not apply then the plea of res adjudicata. 
 It can be required of by either party. 
 
 Senator Clapp. It could be, could it not ? 
 
 Senator Robinson. I do not think so. 
 
 Mr. McMurray. Why not provide if the matter has been sent up 
 and considered by any court, or the departments, that it is not to be 
 brought in here ? That would be fair. 
 
INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 115 
 
 ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF ME. MELVEN CORNISH. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. I Icnow the temper of this committee; I know your 
 desire to immediately report this bill, but this is a matter which 
 concerns me so vitally that I crave permission to say a few words. 
 
 The Chairman. Only a few words ? 
 
 Mr. Cornish. Yes, sir; I will speak briefly and to the point. 
 This is a matter which concei-ns me vcr\' vitally and deeply, and if 
 the committee is disposed to hear me I shall greatly appreciate it. 
 
 The fu-m of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish has been dissolved. 
 Mr. Mansfield is a citizen of the State of Oregon and has been for a 
 number of years. I have been engao'ed in other business and have 
 not been in the practice of law for 10 years. The affaii's of that firm 
 have been closed up. There were just three things Mr. McMurray 
 bought from tlie firm, the fee of $27,500, which the firm earned iia 
 the conduct of the Freedmen litigation. That is one thing and it 
 has no more connection with the other affairs of the firm of Mansfield, 
 McMurray & Cornish than the business of this committee has. It 
 is separate, apart, and distinct, that service having been rendered 
 under the act of July 1, 1902. Then there is the matter of the ex- 
 penses incurred in the trial of cases before the Citizenship Court 
 under the act of July 1, 1902, a special act of Congress authorizing 
 the firm to incur those expenses. That is the second item. The 
 thii-d item is two Chickasaw warrants remaining unpaid, which 
 were issued under our original contract as attorneys for the Chicka- 
 saw Nation. Those three things only and alone are the things Mr. 
 McMurray is asking to have adjudicated by the Court of Claims. 
 The firm of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish had contracts with the 
 Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations from 1899 to 1907. At that time 
 the firm's employment ended and it was dissolved. 
 
 Throughout' that period we spent considerable sums of money. 
 According to all of the records, which never have been disputed, we 
 spent in the conduct of this great work, about which much has been 
 said, between $150,000 and $200,000; but those matters and those 
 items and those things have no connection whatever with these three 
 separate and distinct items that are now asked to be sent to the 
 Court of Claims. When it became necessary to incur these expenses 
 at first the legislature of the Chickasaw Nation and the General 
 Council of the Choctaw Nation passed acts of the legislature pro- 
 viding that the contingent funds be increased and they — (the Chief of 
 the Choctaw Nation and the Governor of the Chickasaw Nation) 
 were authorized to spend whatever was necessary from time to time 
 in protecting the interests of the nations in the various matters that 
 arose. There was a provision of law in the act of June 28, 1898, the 
 Atoka agreement, which provided that the tribes could not appro- 
 priate money without the approval of the President of the United 
 States, except for the regular and necessary expenses of the tribal 
 
 government. Throughout all that period we were not only in 
 armony with the Department of the Interior, but in actual coopera- 
 tion with the officers and representatives of the Department of the 
 Interior in the carrying out of its governmental policies in that coun- 
 try. Under those conditions we were permitted to spend that money. 
 A report was made. An investigation of those accounts and of those 
 
116 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 tribal acts of appropriation was made as early as 1902. At that time 
 we had spent forty odd thousand dollars for the Chickasaw Nation 
 and about the same amount for the Choctaw Nation. Those reports 
 came on here and the accounts and everything we had were at that 
 time submitted to the Department of the Interior and we were per- 
 mitted to continue from that time until 1904, until that work was 
 ended. 
 
 Now, then, as I say, we held, and the department held and per- 
 mitted us to hold, that these expenses were under the control of the 
 tribes, and there are communications and statements from the 
 Department of the Interior showing this. Secretary of the Interior 
 Hitchcock sent his report to Congress on these expenditures in 1904, 
 in which he said that they were expenditures over which the De- 
 partment of the Interior had no control and that no report of such 
 expenditures were made to the department. 
 
 After we had our differences with the Secretary of the Interior 
 over his refusal to approve the fee contract, indictments were ren- 
 dered in the United States court at the instance of the Secretary of 
 the Interior involving not entirely these accounts, but certain of 
 them, and upon our appeal the matter was considered by the De- 
 partment of Justice. Our records and books and accounts were 
 submitted to the Department of Justice and a thorough investigation 
 was made by Mr. RusseU, by Mr. Moody, then Attorney General — 
 by Mr. Russell again and approved by Mr. Bonaparte, then by the 
 President of the United States. Then another investigation was 
 made by Mr. Gregg, special Assistant Attorney General in the 
 Department of Justice, and by Mr. Walker, who was the United 
 States attorney for the southern district of Indian Territory, and by 
 Mr. Charles Nagel, of St. Louis, who was selected upon the request 
 of the Secretary of the Interior. After an investigation of these 
 expenditures in this way by seven officials the reports all completely 
 exonerated us and recommended the dismissal of the indictments, 
 and they were dismissed. There were seven separate and distinct 
 reports on these matters. 
 
 Mr. Nagel, in the closing paragraph of his report, recommended 
 that in order to test the question of law as to whether the original 
 acts of the legislatures should have been submitted to the President 
 it would be well to institute civil suits. Upon his recommendation 
 the Department of Justice instituted suits covering expenses in the 
 Choctaw Nation and after a complete investigation dismissed the 
 suits. Thus upon an investigation of the indictments we were exon- 
 erated on the facts, and by the institution and dismissal of the civil 
 suits the question of law was tested and settled. 
 
 As a lawyer I would not say that it could be maintained in a court 
 of justice that the disposition of these transactions would constitute 
 a res adjudicata in the sense that it could be set up and maintained 
 in the Court of Claims, but I do say that our good faith and devotion 
 to our chents is established. These transactions have thus been 
 passed upon and approved. It has been shown that the money was 
 actually spent for the purposes for which it was meant to be spent 
 and under the direction of the Indians, and the only question, the 
 question of law involved, is the tribal act of appropriation, as to 
 whether that act should have been submitted to the President of the 
 United States for his approval or whether those were regular and 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 117 
 
 necessary expense of the tribal government and within the power of 
 the tribe to control. 
 
 That is what I have to say about those matters. Here are three 
 separate and distinct matters, the Chickasaw Freedmen fee, author- 
 ized under an act of Congress, the citizenship court expenses, under 
 an act of Congress, and the two Chickasaw warrants remaining unpaid. 
 
 In fairness, gentlemen, taking the facts as I have stated them, and 
 that are true as the records show, taking those facts as they are, 
 these matters that are now pending, either ought to be sent to the 
 Court of Claims or ought not to be sent. If you feel, gentlemen, that 
 there is enough justice in the suggestion of Mr. McMurray that these 
 matters be sent to the Court of Claims, send them to the Court of 
 Claims. But it is fair and just, as a price for creating a forum for the 
 trial of these accounts that we say are justly due, which we believe 
 to be justly due, but upon which we are not demanding payment at 
 this time — I say, it means nothing to me, except as it affects these 
 old matters. Is it fair, as the price of that adjudication, to now 
 force us to again be forced to try out these matters from 1899 to 1907 ? 
 I do not beheve it is, gentlemen. I hope you will not so conclude. 
 
 If there is further light I can throw on the matter, I shall be glad 
 to do so. 
 
 The Chairman. Gentlemen of the committee, are you ready for 
 the question? The question is on the amendment proposed by the 
 chairman of the subcommittee. 
 
 Senator Fall. There has been no meeting of this subcommittee 
 appointed several days ago and directed to see if it could get together 
 with Mr. McMurray and the attorney for the tribe, Mr. Bond. There 
 has been no meeting of that subcommittee until this afternoon. 
 This morning a stipulation or a proposed amendment was handed 
 to me. I put it in my pocket and read it after I got in the Senate. It 
 seemed to me that it covered matters absolutely that ought to be 
 adjudicated in this case. 
 
 A few minutes ago, when I came up here for the first time, there 
 was an attempt to hold a meeting of the subconunittee. The chair- 
 man of the subcommittee then informed me that you thought that 
 his amendment there, which he has offered, ought to be adopted. 
 I did not think so then and I do not think so now. I think Mr. 
 Cornish is absolutely correct about the matter; that is my judgment 
 about it, and therefore I did not agree to the proposed amendment. 
 I understand that Senator Clapp did agree with him. 
 
 Mr. Cornish. The amendment as proposed provides that any 
 proper defenses may be interposed against these particular trans- 
 actions that are submitted to the Court of Claims. Mr. McMurray 
 could not demand that the Freedmen be paid without submitting 
 to any proper defense against that claim. So it is with the citizen- 
 ship court expenses. We could fairly ask their payment without 
 proper inquiry into them. It may develop that some part of these 
 claims have been paid. We hold otherwise, but this committee 
 should not assume otherwise. Generally it coidd not be contended 
 fairly that any defenses could not be interposed against those par- 
 ticular items — could not be pleaded — and the amendment was pre- 
 pared upon that basis; but is it f^^g^wiptesihffeid firm as a price 
 for that tribunal ? ' „., .^i^ f^rM I X^'^v^ 
 
 -^ ONEOh4TA, N- Y. 
 
118 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 
 
 Senator Fall. I think the amendment as proposed is broad enough 
 to force into the court these other items, the entire amount, in so far 
 as they might apply to the particular claims. That was my objection, 
 because I thought that would do justice, but to force into the court 
 any items going back for years and going through aJl the accounts 
 of these parties, which did not apply to these claims, I did not think 
 those were proper matters. 
 
 Senator Thompson. I felt this way about it: Here is a claim of 
 $27,500 for attorneys' fees of Mansfield, McMurray & Cornish, the old 
 firm against these two nations, and Mr. McMurray here is present de- 
 manding the right to offset the claim of the nations with this attorney's 
 fee, and it does seem to me that if the nations had any claim against 
 the firm, or against Mr. McMurray — and this matter is now to be sub- 
 mitted to a tribual for final determination - that they ought to be per- 
 mitted to do it, and for that reason I insist on the matter of the 
 amendment of any claim the nations have against the firm or against 
 Mr. McMurray. 
 
 Senator Fall. That any claim against McMurray was in the 
 original proposed amendment? 
 
 Senator 'Thompson. I simply insist that it be broad enough. As 
 far as I am individually concerned I do not care about it going in at 
 all, but I presume the matter will be before this committee for all 
 time to come and be up here at the next session, and the next, and I 
 thought it should be so that the rights of aU the parties were pro- 
 tected, and Mr. McMurray was wanting some tribunal to pass upon 
 his claim — just so the nations were protected and had the same tri- 
 bunal to pass upon theirs and let the whole matter be settled and 
 judgment fall where it wiU. It ought to be determined finally. 
 
 Senator Fall. I want to be understood that I am just as sincere 
 in my desire to protect the proper rights of the Indians as the Senator 
 from Kansas is. He simply has a different idea, that you can go into 
 aU kinds of litigation; go back for years in matters that have nothing 
 to do with these claims and litigate them in the court, and that that 
 is necessary. I give him credit for being sincere about it, of course, 
 that that would be necessary to adjudicate these particular matters. 
 I do not think so. That is the difference between us. 
 
 Senator Thompson. I am unwilling to agree to amendments that 
 win select a few claims against the nations when they may have many 
 other claims against the attorneys they may want to select. 
 
 The Chairman. What part do you wish to vote on first ? 
 
 Senator Thompson. I think Senator Clapp and I agree on this. 
 
 Senator Robinson. There is nothing pending, as I understand, 
 except the amendment reported by the subcommittee. 
 
 Senator Thompson. If they do not want it brought, let us not have 
 it up here. 
 
 Senator Eobinson. If they do not want it. 
 
 Senator Thompson. In fact, I feel a good deal like the judge who 
 decided the case where neither side was satisfied. It strengthens my 
 behef in the fact that we are right. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on the amendment as has been 
 reported by the two members of the subcommittee. Those in favor 
 of the amendment say " aye." Those opposed "no." 
 
INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 119 
 
 The ayes appear to have it. It appears to the Chau- that the ayes 
 were thioc and the noes two. Is any division or roU call requested ? 
 The ayes have it. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I wish to propose an amendment to the 
 amendment I offered with regard to the fencing of those Crow allot- 
 ments on page 38. After the word "build" in the third line I wish 
 to insert, "in so far as may be with Indian labor." 
 
 Senator Owen. I move the adoption of that amendment. 
 
 The Chairmax. In the absence of objection it is agreed to. 
 
 Senator La Follette. And after the word "fence" in line 13, in 
 the provision that requires : 
 
 That any lessee of allotted Indian lands on said Indian reservation shall be required 
 to maintain said fence in good repair. 
 
 At the suggestion of Senator Owen I wish to add after the word 
 "fence" the words "in good repair." 
 
 The Chairman. Is there any objection to that amendment? In 
 the absence of objection it is agreed to. 
 
 Senator La Follette. Then, at the end of the amendment, as I 
 offered it on the suggestion of Mr. Meritt, I wish to add the following : 
 
 And there is hereby appropriated sufEcient money so that any tribal funds which 
 are now or may hereafter be availalile to carry out the provisions herein, said tribal 
 funds to be disbursed under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior 
 may prescribe. 
 
 The amendment was agreed to. 
 
 The Chairman. The question now is on the motion of the Senator 
 from Oklahoma that the bill be reported favorably as amended by 
 the committee. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I wish to reserve the right to oppose on the 
 floor the Choctaw provision. I do not at this moment think of any 
 other. 
 
 Senator White. I wish to reserve the same right and to reserve the 
 right to vote against this amendment which has just been offered. 
 
 Senator La Follette. I wish to reserve all rights as to this last 
 amendment. I have not been following it very closely and I wish to 
 look it up a little further. 
 
 The Chairman. The question is on reporting the biU immediately 
 and favorably. 
 
 Senator White. I may want to vote against the provision with 
 reference to estabhshing the forest reservation — the Chippewa Forest 
 Reservation. 
 
 The Chairman. Before I put the motion I wiU say that every 
 Senator has the right, and it is his duty, to vote just as he pleases 
 in the Senate. Nothing here said or done can bind him, m my 
 judgment. Those in favor of reporting the biU immediately will say 
 "aye"; those opposed "no." The ayes have it. 
 
 (The motion was agreed to.) 
 
 (Thereupon, at 6.30 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned.) 
 
w 
 
 c^ L n 
 
|M»i i^^ri?^^' ^'-' .'