nn CORNELL UNIVERSITY LIBRARY Cornell University Library E 77.U581I39 1919c Indian appropriation t>i)|i„1929 3 1924 028 632 796 Cornell University Library The original of tiiis book is in the Cornell University Library. There are no known copyright restrictions in the United States on the use of the text. http://www.archive.org/cletails/cu31924028632796 forestry Q5*3> M/Art6-1919 INDIAN APPROPRlATIO>4 BILL, 1920 ^ HEAKINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFEAmS UNITED STATES SENATE^rii-> SIXTY-FIFTH CONGRESS ' ^ THIRD SESSION ON H. R. 14746 A BILL MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE CURRENT AND CON- TINGENT EXPENSES OF THE BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, FOR FULFILLING TREATY STIPULATIONS WITH VARI- OUS INDIAN TRIBES, AND FOR OTHER PUR- POSES, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 1920 Printed for the use of the Committee on Indian Affairs WASHINGTON GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 1919 COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS. HENRY F. ASHUKST, Arizona, Chairman. KEY PITTMAN, Nevada. EOBEET L. OWEN, Oklahoma. ED. S. JOHNSON, South Dakota. THOMAS J. WALSH, Montana. JOHN B. KENDEICK, Wyoming. ANDRIEDS A. JONES, New Mexico. WILLIAM H. KING, Utah. JOHN F. NUGENT, Idaho. Maceice H. Lanman, Olerh. 2 EOBEET M. LA FOLLETTB, Wisconsin. ASLE J. GEONNA, North Dakota. ALBERT B. FALL, New Mexico. CHAELBS CURTIS, Kansas. BEET M. FEENALD, Maine. CHARLES L. McNAEY, Oregon. SELDEN P. SPENCER, Missouri. 32d^LC y INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. , FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 1919'. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. 0. The committee met at 2 o'clock p. m., pursuant to adjournment, at the room of the committee in the Capitol Building, Senator Henry F. Ashurst presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Curtis, Gronna, Kendrick, Kugent, McNary, and Spencer. Also, Mr. Edgar B. Meritt, Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs. The Chairman. The committee will come to order. We will now proceed with the consideration of the Minnesota items in the bill. MINNESOTA CHIPPEWA INDIANS, WHITE EARTH BAND ANNUAL CELEBRATION. The committee proceeded to consider the next item, as follows : The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to advance to the execu- tive committee of the White Earth Band of Chippewa Indians in Minnesota the sum of $1,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be expended in the annual celebration of said band, to be held June fourteenth, nineteen hundred and nineteen, out of the funds belonging to said band. Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, is there any contest over that item ? The Chairman. The Chair understands that there are several members of the delegation present who desire to be heard. STATEMENT OF DE. JAMES I. COFFEY. Mr. CoFFET. Mr. Chairman, we represent the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, and the sentiment of the Indians of Minnesota is to cut that item out. It is of no particular benefit to the Indians of Minne- sota, and is used more for the purpose of a regular sort of celebra- tion than anything else^ — more of an orgie, or for the purposes of a good time among the people there, and it only benefits a very few. The principal part of the money, as I understand, goes to Ben Fair- banks and has been used to pay the expenses of certain people called delegates from Eed Lake and White Earth for their local councils there. It was used for that purpose, as I understand it, in 1915, when they held a local council there, and they passed resolutions which they afterwards tried to palm off on the people as the acts of the oi ivi.imiesoi;a m getrmg noia oi tneir properby. al ib a «l>h> hat council shaU bp 1 (delegate to evpry 100 people of the population. They claim they are entitled to' 63 dpifigfites at Wiiite Earth, and thpy have never carried out their election at White Earth at the local councils as provided by law. instead of electing delegates, they have selected them. They hq-ve run things at that council in such a way that they have bewildered the Indians there who undertook to take part in those proceedings, and to pull the wool over their eyes, and instead of elepting those delegates the delegates are already selected before the council is opened. The men are named ; there is a list, I understand, that is made of them — a list of the delegates that should be named by men selected in advance to name the delegates instead of electing them. Now, that is irregular and not lawful. Also these delegates are used at the general council to elect their president, and we claim that the delegates elected in that way have no power from the people. Senator Nugent. Whom do you refer to as " we " ? Mr. CoFFET. The Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, the full bloods, That takes in all of the Chippewa Indians in Minnesota, because these people do not represent the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. They are a different class of people altogether. Take the mixed bloods of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, for instance ; they are not with the full bloods. It is a separate and distinct class of peaple, with the exception of John Carl and Mr. Eogers, and that man over there [indicating] . They never belonged in Minnesota. They come from way down east some place, and they forced themselves upon the Indians in Minnesota through fraud and in one way and another, and through the agency of murder. Take, for instance, the treaty of 1867, as made there between the United States and the Mississippi Indians. They inserted a clause in that treaty which would bar these people from particapating in, deriving any benefit from the Indians there, because they did not belong there. Now, here is the clause — it is printed in the supple- mental hearings of the subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs, House of Eepresentatives, January 10, 1919. It is a part of the statement we made to the committee and is found on page 58 of those hearings. It is to be found in the supplemental statement by the legislative committee of the Chippewa General Council, and is as follows : As an illustration we cite the provisions made by a treaty with the Chippewas of the Mississippi, March 19, 1867 (16 Stat., 719), ratified April 8, 1867 Senator McNaey. Mr. Chairman, pardon me, but I would like to raise the point that this tribal tree has nothing to 'do with the item of $1,000 for this musical organization, or fair, or whatever it is. I understand that Mr. Coffey is opposing this appropiration of $1,000. That is the only thing that we are now considering. I have not time myself to listen to this very interesting discussion. The Chairman.. The item is on line 19, page 26. You are opposed to that item? Mr. CoFFET. Yes, sir; we are opposing that item. The gentle- man here stated that he was chairman of the legislative committee of the general council. The Chairman. I know, but why are you opposing the item ? Mr. Coffey. Because the Indians do not want it 6 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL, 1920. The Chairman. You represent the tribe? Mr. Coffey. Not if it is used for the purpose that Congress in- tended it to be used when appropriated. But it is of no particular benefit to the Indians. If the item should go for the purpose o± a fair, or anything of that kind that would be of benefit to the Indians, there would be no objection then. But this is simply a matter of expending that money for an orgie of some sort. The Chairman. And your claim is that it is of no good, or of no value to the Indians? Mr. CoFi^T. Yes, sir. I would like to finish reading this clause in order to get it before the committee, because it is a very important matter to the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. They are here be- fore this committee to present complaints that have accumulated for years, and to tell the committee about depredations and fraud and The Chairman. But we can not listen to a general speech. Just confine your arguments to this special item, unless the committee takes a different view. We are very much pressed for time, and I suggest that you make your argument, if you desire to, as against this $1,000 appropriation, stating whatever you have to state against that. Senator Nugent. Mr. Chairman, I ask that he be permitted to read the clause of that treaty that he has been talking about. I am somewhat interested in that. Mr. CoFFEx. The clause is section 4. No part of the annuities provided in this or any former treaty of the Chippewas of the Mississippi Bands shall be paid to any half-breed or mixed blood, excepting those who actually live with their people upon one of the reservations among the Chippewa Indians. Senator Nugent. How many Indians are on this reservation ? Mr. Coffey. On the White Earth ? Senator Nugent. Yes. Mr. Coffey. There are about, I think, between five and six thou- sand. Senator Nugent. How many of them are full bloods, approxi- mately ? Mr. Coffey. I really do not know, but I suppose Mr. Meritt, or one of the witnesses, can answer that better than I. Ben, do you know? Mr. Ben Caswell. Speaking from the testimony under oath, about one-fourth. Senator Nugent. Only one-fourth are full bloods? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. Do I understand. Doctor, that you are represent- ing the full bloods on the reservation ? Mr. Coffey. The full bloods in the State of Minnesota. You know there are nine reservations, including the ceded reservations in Minnesota, which contain a little over 11,000 people. Senator Nugent. Are they interested in this matter also? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. Well, I will change the question. How many full bloods are there in the entire State of Minnesota, regardless of ■what reservation they are on? INDIAlir APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 7 Mr. Coffey. Well, 11,000 or a little better. Senator Nugent. What proportion does that bear to the total number of Indians in the reservations, both full bloods and mixed bloods ? Mr. Coffey. What proportion are full bloods, do you mean ? Senator Nugent. Yes ; how many Indians are there who are full- blood Chippewas and how many are mixed bloods on the reservation ? Mr. Coffey. Well, the mixed or half bloods are classed with the full bloods in our country. They are regarded as full bloods under the law. So I would say there were more than one-half. Senator Nugent. Do you and the gentlemen here with you repre- sent all the full bloods, together with the half bloods that are represented as full bloods ? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. You say they number how many — 9,000? Mr. Coffey. A little over 11,000. Senator Nugent. Now, how many others are there on these reser- vations of mixed blood ? Mr. Coffey. What proportion? Senator Nugent. No; you say there are 11,000 half bloods and fuU bloods? Mr. Coffey. All together. Senator Nugent. How many others are there on the reservation ? Mr. Coffey. That takes in the entire Indian population of Min- nesota. Senator Nugent. What I am trying to get at is how many people you represent here ? Mr. Coffey. Well, we represent all of those who class themselves as full bloods ; that includes the half bloods. Senator Nugent. Are there any others on the reservation ? Mr. Coffey. We do not know. We pretend to represent the State of Minnesota, with the exception of these three or four families of mixed bloods. Senator Nugent. Do these gentlemen represent nobody but them- selves? Mr. Coffey. They represent nobody but themselves, because they have never been appointed. They have no authority whatever under the law that they claim organization under. Senator Nugent. How many people do they represent ? Mr. Coffey. Every man represents himself individually; that is all that I know of. Senator Nugent. Then you would have this committee understand that you are here protesting against the incorporation of this item in this bill as representative of 11,000 of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. And as against the proposition made by those gentlemen who represent only themselves; is that correct? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir; I- can tell you Senator McNaey. Pardon me; how many representatives in addi- tion to yourself appear here for the Chippewas? Mr. Coffey. There are five besides myself here. Senator McNaey. All elected and having credentials? 8 ISIDIAN APPROPBIATIOM" BILL, 1920. Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator McNaey. Have you credentials to represent them? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator Ctirtis. Do you live on the White Earth Eeservation? Mr. Coffey. No, sir. I am enrolled on the Fon du Lac Reserva- tion. Now, to prove that I want to tell you what the status of these gentlemen is Senator Curtis. Fon du Lac only has a population of 1,000 and White Earth has over 6,000. Mr. Coffey. We have a general council which elects these dele- gates to this proposed congress here — — Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, I think I can save the time of the com- mittee by making a brief statement here. The Chairman. I wish you would do so. Mr. Meritt. There are two delegations of the Chippewa Indians in this room at this time. Mr. Coffey heads one delegation, and Mr, John Carl heads the other delegation, known as the Morrison dele- gation. There is also one other Indian here, who represents the Eed Lake Reservation, Mr. Peter Graves. Those two contesting delegations claim to be the official repre- sentatives of the Chippewa Council of Minnesota. They have a regularly constituted council and constitution and by-laws. Thej held meetings in Bemidji, Minn., last July, and there were t^c separate conventions, and both claimed to be the real representatives of the Chippewas of Minnesota. ■ As has been brought out here, there are about 11,000 Chippewa Indians in Minnesota — to be ac- curate, 11,839. There are six reservations in the Chippewa country, the Fond du Lac Reservation, with a population of 1,067; Grand Portage Reservation, with a population of 321; Leech Lake Reser- vation, with a population of 1,786; Nett Lake Reservation, with s population of 614; Red Lake Reservation, with a population oi 1,496 ; and White Earth, with a population of 6,555 ; making a tota] of 11,839 Indians in the Chippewa country. The Chippewa Indians have in the Treasury at this time approxi- mately $6,000,000, a very large tribal fund. There is considerablt dispute among these Chippewas about various local phases of theii affairs. For example, some of the Indians are claiming propertj rights in the property of the Red Lake Indians. They also have some large claims against the Government of the United States, anc they want those claims to go to the Court of Claims for fina settlement. We have a number of controverted items here, and this is onl] an appropriation of $1,000. We did not include this item in oui estimate, because it is more largely for the benefit of the White Eartl Indians than for the entire Chippewa Indians, and it was claimet by certain Indians in the Chippewa country that the White Eartl Indians were using this $1,000 appropriaton to get certan Indiani out to the celebraton to manipulate the politics of the Chippe^fs Indians so as to control the council proceedings and other matters connected with the Chippewas. When we went before the House committee I gave a frank state ment regarding this appropriation. Representative Steenerson o: Michigan, who represents this district, asked that this appropriatioi go into the bill, according to my understanding, and the Hous( IIS^MAN ApPEOPEIii.TION BILL, 192(9. . 9 cqpimittee put it in the bill largely at his request. All of the Chip- ?' ewa Indians have an interest in this $1,000, and a number of those ndians are protesting against this appropriation. It is a very small matter and I (io not feel like taking further time of the com- mittee regarding this $1,000 appropriation. Senator McNart. Has the department reached a decision with re- sj)ect to proper representatives of the majority of the Chippewas? Mr. Meejtt. We have studied the proceedings of the two conven- tions and have held hearings in the department regarding this matter, but we have not as yet rendered a decision. We thought that we would come before Congress with these various items and let the two factions be heard, if the comraittee desired to hear them. Senator McNaey. For my part I would like to follow the will of the majority in a matter of this kind. I may have some difference with the commissioner with respect to who are the true representa- tives of the majority of the Chippewas. Senator Cxjktis. The record shows that White Earth has 6,555 Indians, while the total membership of all of the six tribes is only 11,839. Senator McNart. Who represents the White Earth Reservation? Senator Curtis. These gentlemen claim that they do. Mr. CoFFET. We represent White Earth. These are two White Earth Indians here. Here is a list which they have violated, and which puts thpm out of commission. They claim appointment here, llere are their predentials. I will read them to you The Chairman. Just a moment. If the other members of the com- mittee desire to hear it, very well, but I will have to ask you not to read anything for my benefit, because we can not, at this stage of the session, with the 4th of March approaching, listen to an elabo- rate discussion as to the technical riglits of representatives of the tribe. All I care to know is the general sentiment in favor of it ? Several Indians. We are all in favor of it. The Chairman. What did your last vote show ? Mr. Coffey. When we left the reservation last December we voted on it, and the committee voted on it, and voted it out, concluding we did not want it. The Chairman. Mr. Meritt, you did not estimate for this, did you? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Nugent. I move that it be stricken out. (The question being put, the motion was agreed to and the item was stricken from the bill.) timber, red lake, agency sawmill. The Chairman. Senator Nelson's secretary is present and desires to submit a brief statement with regard to the item beginning at. the bottom of page 26 of the bill, as follows: That not to exceed $50,000 of the funds derived from the sale of timber from the Red Lake Indian Forest, Minnesota, under authority of the act of May eighteen, nineteen hundred and sixteen (Thirty-ninth Statutes at Large, page one hundred and thirty-seyen), may be expended by the Secretary of the In- terior in payment of the expenses authorized by said act, and in the logging, booming, towing, and manufacture of timber at the Red Lalse Agency sawmill. 10 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL, 1920. STATEMENT OF MR. SIMON MICHELET, SECRETARY TO SENATOR NEISON. The Chaieman. What have you to say, Mr. Michelet? Mr. Michelet. Mr. Chairman, Senator Nelson asks that that item of $50,000 be cut down to $15,000. Senator Nugent. For what reason? . ' Mr. Michelet. That is in regard to logging. The Senator is of opinion that that is sufficient to carry on the work that is to be car^ ried on there. That law, I think, was passed at the instance of Senator Nelson and he asks that that be cut down to $15,000. Senator McNary. In order to dispel my ignorance of the situation, I would like to have a brief statement from Mr. Meritt regarding this project and what it is. Mr. Meeitt. This appropriation is requested for the purpose of carrying out the act of May 19, 1916, which created an Indian forest reserve on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, and which authorized the manufacture of certain timber on that reservation. We have very valuable timber holding on that reservation. A part of the timber has been burned over and blown down, and it was necessary that that tim- ber be manufactured. Congress has passed legislation which prohibits us from using tribal funds for work of this class without specific authority of Congress. I am going to get the figures from the office for Senator Curtis, showing the exact amount of timber that we have manufactured during the last year, and to show you how much we expect to manufacture during the next year. Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the item be passed over until that information is furnished. The Chairman. Very well. Senator Nugent. Has this appropriation of $50,000 been made during the last two or three years, and expended for this purpose ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; we have had one or two appropriations under this item. The Chairman. It will go over at the request of the Senator from Kansas. BRIDGE ACROSS RED LAKE RIVER. The next item was as follows: That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the Treasury of the United States from funds on deposit to the credit of the Indians of the Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minnesota, the sum of $3,000, to be used for the construction of a bridge across the Red Lake River on said reservation in conformity with plans approved by the Chief of Engineers, United States Army, and by the Secretary of War, as required by the act of M^rch three, eighteen hundred and ninety-nine (Thirtieth Statutes at Large, page eleven hundred and fifty-one). Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, this item is for the purpose of con- structing a bridge across the Red Lake River, the bridge to be wholly within the reservation. It is very much to the interest of the Red Lake Indians that this bridge be constructed. It is payable out of their funds. I think there will be no objection to that appropriation- Senator Nugent. Is there any contest with respect to that? Several Indians. No. (The item was agreed to.) INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 11 INDIAN LABOR ON EOAD WORK. The Chairman. The next item was as follows : The Secretary of the Interior Is hereby authorized to witlidraw from the Treasury of the United States the sum of $2,000 of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota and to pay said amount to the county of Saint Louis, m said State, in lieu of the expenditure of a like sum for the employ- ment of Indian labor on road work under an agreement between said county, the superintendent of the Fond du Lac Indian School, and the firm of A. O. Willcuts and Son, of date June twenty-six, , nineteen hundred and seventeen, approved by the Assistant Secretary of the Interior on September twenty-eight, nineteen hundred and seventeen. Mr. Meritt. That is another uncontested item. It is for the pur- pose of paying for work already done, and which has been approved by the department. (The item was agreed to.) ENROLLMENT ON WHITE EARTH RESERVATION. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, the next item is a small appropria- tion requested by the Department of Justice. It is a new item which we were asking to be incorporated after this item that I have just read, and reads as follows: For the completion of the enrollment of the allottees within the White Earth Reservation, in the State of Minnesota, required by the act of June thirteen, nineteen hundred and thirteen, as amended, $2,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary. That appropriation is necessary for the Department of Justice to carry out the provisions of the act of Congress mentioned so as to complete the enrollment work on the White Earth Reservation. Senator McNart. What Indians are those ? Mr. Meritt. The White Earth Reservation, among the Chippewas of Minnesota. I think there will be no objection to that item. Senator McNart. I move that the item be incorporated. (The motion was agreed to.) The Chairman, Have you any other items, Mr. Meritt ? EXPENSES OP GENERAL COUNCIL. Mr. Meritt. The next item is a somewhat contested item and reads as follows : That the sum of $10,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota, is hereby appropriated to pay the expenses of the general council of said tribe to be held during July, nineteen hundred and nineteen, pursuant to the constitution of the general coun- cil of said Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, organized in May, nineteen hundred and thirteen, and to pay the expenses of said general council in looking after the affairs of said tribe. Including the actual and necessary expenses of its legislative committee in visiting Washington during the second session of the Sixty-fifth Congress ; said sum to be immediately available, and said actual and necessary expenses to be approved by the president and secretary of the general council and certified to the Secretary of the Interior and as so approved and certified to be paid. We would like to have that item changed to read as follows : That the sum of $15,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota is hereby ap- 12 INIi^IAaS' APPK0J>RIATIQ1?^ BILL, 1920. propriated to pay the expenses of the General Council of said tribe to be held July, nineteen hundred ahd nineteen, pursuant to the constitution of the general council of said Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, organized in May, nineteen hundred and thirteen, anfl to pay the expenses 6f said general council in looking after the affairs of said tribe. Strike out " including" and add the words " and also"; and strike out the words "its legislative committee in," inserting the wol-ds " expenses of the Chippewa delegates " in place of " legislative com- mittee," so that it will read " Chipppwa delegates visiting Washing- ton during the second and third sessions of the Sixty -fifth Congress, said sym to be immediately available." Strike out the remainder of the paragraph. The reason we are asking for that change is because there are two delegations both claiming to represent the Chippewa Indians, and they have incurred certain expenses here in Washington — ^hotel bills and other expenses — and also expenses in the State of Minnesota, and we feel that it is a matter of right and justice that those expenses be paid, whether they were incurred by one faction or the other, and that they should be paid out of the, Chippewa funds. Senator Nugent. Have they amounted to the sum of $5,000 ? Mr. Meritt. The expenses will amount to between ten and fifteen thousand dollars. Senator Nugent. I mean the expenses of these delegations coming here, in the expense you have just referred to ? Mr. Meritt. They also incurred expenses in the State of Minne- sota at the time those two councils were held at Bemidji, and there are certain outstanding bills in connection with those two conven- tions. Senator McNaet. I do not understand that. This appropriation is for the expenses of the 1919 convention. You are speaking now of debts that have been incurred ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNaey. How much of that sum of $5,000 is necessary to absorb the debt thus created ? Mr. Meritt. We have not been able to figure that amount, but there are considerable debts outstanding, and this will also meet the expenses of the convention that is to be held next July at Bemidji. Senator Curtis. What is the idea of that convention? Is it to settle the affairs of the tribes, or some association among the tribes, or what is it? Mr. Meritt. It has been the custom among the Chippewa Indians to hold conventions and to discuss tribal affairs and to make rec- ommendations to the department and Congress. Senator Nugent. Is there any contest between these Indians with respect to this item ? Mr. CoFEEy. Here is an amendment Senator Nugent. Just one momfent. If there is no contest, and if it is to come out of their money, I suppose it is all right. Mr. Meritt. There is a contest as to the language to be used in this item. I do not believe there will be any serious contest as to the amount. Senator McNary. These tribal funds are not to be squandered, of course. They are to be held for the benefit of all the members of the tribe! INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920, 13 Mr. Meeitt. Yesj si^. Senator McNaey. The word " delegates " is of such general appli- cation that there might be half a dozen or 15 stragglers coming on here at the instance of the tribe, and then we will have these oppos- ing factions in the delegations. It wou^d seem to me to be the duty of the office to find out whether, when they come here, the authority of the delegation is undisputed. Senator Cttktis. That is, to instruct them. Senator McNart. But to spend their money to split up and send any number of delegations here is spending the money of the tribe imnecessarily and wastefully. Senator Nugent. I understand that this refers to the expenses already incurred. Senator McNaey. Only a portion of it. A lot of it is for expenses to be incurred at this convention to be held in July of this year. Senator Nugent. I have reference only to the expense of the dele- gation coming here, because it is quite apparent that there has been no settlement agreed to between the tyibes. So, if this delegation came here acting absolutely in good faith, thinking they had the right to represent the tribe, in my opimon the money necessary to defray their expenses already incurred should be paid. Senator McNakt. % was speaking of the general policy. Senator Nugent. I agree with you. Mr. Meeitt. You will note from this language that we are insist- ing that this next general council sjiall be held in accordance with the constitution of the Council of the Chippewa Indians of Minne- sota, and we are going to hold them strictly to compliance with the constitution and by-laws of that council, and will recognize the dele- fates who hold a convention in accordance with that, constitution, ut, we have these two contesting delegaM.ons in the city at this time, and, we have felt that the bills of both delegations should be paid. Mr. Ballingee. Mr. Chairman, may I say Mr. CoFFET. Mj". Chairman, the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota pl?ject to Mr. Ballinger as representing anything on behalf of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. , The Chaieman. Let us see who he does speak for. STATEMENT OP ME. WEBSTER BALLINGER, ATTORNEY AT LAW. The Chaieman. You are an attorrtey at law in this city ? Mr. ]p|Aij;jNGEE. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, t appear beiore your committee under a resolution passed by the last general couiicil of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota and at the request of the regular delegates who came here ap- pointed by the chairman of the executive committee of that con vention. Thfe Chairman. Have you a copy of that resolution? Mr. BaLmngee. I shall be very glad to insert it in tbe record. The Chairman. Yes ; insert that in the riecord. (The resoltition referred to was subsequently furnished by Mr. Bal- linger and is here printed in full as follows:) Mr. Baijjngee. Now, Senators, there is some controversy about this matter, and my cliehts want to make plain to you the exact situa- tion, so that there can be ho misunderstanding. 14 INDIAK APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. The item as it passed the House ought to be amended in one re- spect; in other words, it provides in line 12 for the " second session of the Sixty-fifth Congress," whereas it should be the third s^sioii. The second session has passed. We are in the third session,^ and it is to defray the expenses this year, and therefore the word second - should be stricken out and the word " third " inserted. Senator Nugent. In other words, then, your chents object to pay- ing the expenses incurred by the delegates who purport to represent a portion of this tribe, and" who attended the second session? Mr. Balungee. Senator, there are no such bills, not at the last session of Congress. Senator Nugent. "Were there no delegates here? Mr. Ballingbe. None of these gentlemen were down here at that time. Senator McNaet. But there were delegates here representing the Chippewa Indians.? Mr. Ballingee. Yes, sir ; and those are my clients, and their bills have been paid. Senator Nugent. One moment. Mr. Meritt, as I understand it, desires to amend this item as it appears in this bill by inserting after the word " second " the words " and third." What is your object in that? Mr. Meeitt. Because there are outstanding bills incurred during the last Congress, and there are also bills incurred during this session of Congress. Senator Nugent. For the expenses of delegates? Mr. Meeitt. The expenses of alleged delegates. Mr. Ballinger makes two misstatements, that there are no outstanding accounts that have not been settled, and that none of these men here now were here last year. The truth of the matter is that Mr. Coffey, who heads this other delegation, was also a delegate here last winter, and there are some outstanding bills at the National Hotel now that should be paid. The Chairman. Let me understand that. You say that Mr. Coffey was truly a representative or delegate, and some of these bills are unpaid, and you want to pay them ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Mr. Ballingee. 1 want to be perfectly plain. I stated Mr. Coffey. I would like to state^ ■ Mr. Ballingee. If you will examine the record you will find it exactly as I have stated it. Mr. Coffey came here last winter, ap- pointed by Mr. Morrison, president of the general council that sent the gentleman here, as a delegate. Along in February he refused to obey the instructions of their executive committee and general coun- cil and resigned and quit. Up to the day he quit his bills were paid and have been paid in full. He remained here on his own account a short time after that and there is a remnant of one month's bill at the National Hotel charged against Mr. Coffey, who remained here then in his individual capacity, that remains unpaid. Other than that, Mr. Meritt, do you know of any bill that remains unpaid ? Senator Nugent. Who was Morrison ? Mr. Ballingee. Mr. Morrison was then, and is now, the presideni of the general council, elected by the Indians themselves. INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 15 Senator Nugent. Did he authorize Coffey to come here ? Mr. Balungee. Yes, sir ; he sent him here. Senator Nugent. Did he revoke that authority ? Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir ; after Coffey resigned he revoked his au- thority and then Coffey remained here at his own instance and not as representative of anybody but himself. The Chairman. Is there any ground for the Coffey bill not being paid? Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir ; these are trust funds, and the question is as to the authority of Mr. Morrison or anybody else to pay the ex- penses of some fellow who comes here of his own volition and re- mains here. That is the question. Now, Mr. Meritt, I again ask you, do you know of any other bill that remains unpaid except that bill of Mr. Coffey, contracted sub- sequent to the time he resigned and was removed as a member of the legislative committee? Mr. Meritt. I know there is an unpaid Coffey bill at the National Hotel which should be paid, and we want legislation to clean up that obligation. Senator McNart. How much is it, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. It is about $200, 1 think. Mr. Ballinger. Oh, no. Senator Curtis. Mr. Ballinger, these Indians have some $6,000,000 in the Treasury. $15,000 is not very much if you stop after you get to that. Why is it not best to appropriate $15,000 and settle these claims hereafter, as the Indian Office says that it is going to compel these people to come here in the regular way, and those who come outside of that shall be ignored, those who come in the regular way having their expenses paid? Mr. Ballinger. I am going to suggest to you a method by which to do it so that you will not have a repetition of this condition. Senator McNart. Just to meet this condition now not what we will have in the future? The Chairman. Mr. Ballinger, why does not— and I am not com- mitted to any particular view — ^but why does not the Department's amendment comprehend and bring about just what you want? Mr. Ballinger. It does not, for this reason ; just hear me a minute on that. The Chairman. One minute, we will allow you. Mr. Ballinger. Of course, I merely want to make a statement re- garding it. This legislation as it stands in the bill is in the identical language that has been contained in previous appropriation bills. It is designed and intended so that the Indians in their own way, through their general council, can expend this money. Now, under the provision as drawn by the Indian Commissioner they can not spend a single dollar ; eveiy dollar of it will be spent by the depart- ment for their benefit. Now, that they do not want, and that Con- gress has two or three times — or rather this committee — has directly and specifically passed upon. Now, gentlemen, this general council Senator Curtis. You mean by leaving out the last four lines ? Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. You want the last four lines in that the assistant commissioner recommends be left out? 16 INDIAN APPEOPEllTION BILL, 1920, Mr. Balltngee. Yes, sir. . ^ Senator Ctjrtis. Would you have any objection to inserting what the commissioner asks, and also including "actual and necesS|ry expenses of the Chippewa delegates," and putting in $15,000, it the last five lines are left in ? Mr. Ballingee. I then do not know how John Morrison could pay the bills. What I suggest is that if you let that amendment std,nd as it- is, and Mr. Meritt Avill draft a proviso naming these gentlemen, and providing the amount of their bills to be paid, nobody will ob]iBct to it. The bills ought to be paid, arid providing for further expfenses down here, hotel bills, and traveling expenses back home. Nobody will object to that. But they do not want a repetition of this thing, going on eternally. Next winter 10C» or 150 or 200 men may com^ down here and then demand payment of their bills, and the general council asks that you let the provision with reference to the general council stand as it passed the House, and then draw up an amend- ment naming these gentlemen arid providing the amount that is appropriated, and directing the secretary, or the commissioner, or anyone else, to pay their bills. Now, gentlemen, as this matter is a controverted matter — ^that is, there is some question about it — I would like to have 2 minutes to tell you something about this general council, because I think you gentlemen will be interested Mr. Coffey. Just 1 minute- The Chaieman. Of course, the chairman is not running this com- mittee ; he has only 1 vote, and I want to be entirely frank about it. I do not want to hear anything that extends over a minute or two. Surely you can say what you want to say in a minute or two. Is there any objection to giving Mr. Balliriger a minute or two, and then we will allow Mr. Coffey a minute or two ? Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Chaiiman, give me 3 minutes. The Chaiemast. Oh, no; we have heard it over and over again. Please make it 1 minute. You are a lawyer. Mr. Ballingee. I will cut it down. This coupcil was organized in 1913 to prevent what they conceived to be a dissipation of their estate. Since that time they have saved the Government of the United States, in claims that wbuld have arisen against the Govern- ment, somewhere between $3,000,000 and $8,000,000. They have saved to the tribe property aggrega,ting some $6,000,000 to $10,- 000,000, and they have adjusted and looked after the affairs of the people out there in innumerable instances, saving their property for them, and the Indian Office, at their instancfe, has modified its regulations and has changed its rules so that the Indians are getting the benefit of their money. I have knowtt of a good many cases but I have never known of a case in which the benefits have flowed to the individuals as have flowed to them as a result of this general council. Mr. Meeitt. Eight there, I want to deny this extravagant state- ment, but I have not the time to go into the details of it. Mr. CoFFEx. I know all about that. Ballinger has not said a word of truth yet. Mr. Ballingee. Just 1 minute. I want, at this point, to insert in the record a communication duly sent me by the Fond du Lac or INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1!120. 17 the Xett Lake Indians. The Fond du Lac Band— you are a mem- ber o± that band, are you not, Mr. Coffey? Mr. Coffey. Yes. sir. Gentlemen, I object— Ihe Chairman. Just let Mr. Ballinger proceed. He has 1 min- ute ; and then you will have your minute. Mr. Ballinger. I want to insert in the record a duly authenti- cated copy of the action of their tribal council in which they ap- pealed to me to appear before the committees in Congress and the department and to protest against Mr. Coffey being heard as repre- senting them as to anything that they have. I shall not take the tiine to read it but shall ask that it be inserted in the record. The Chairman. Without objection it will be inserted in the' record. ( J he paper referred to is here printed in full as follows:) -, „, „ ^'KTT Lake, Minn., January 6, 1919. Mr. Webster Bali.ikgek, Washington, D. C. My Deae Mr. Ballingek : We, the uiuiersigued Cliippewa Indians belonging to the Bois Fort Reservation, Xett Lake Agency, in State of Minnesota are holding council this 6th day of January, 1919, for the purpose of discussing some matters pertaining to our local affairs on this reservation. First. First matter' brought up was to write to you and inform you that you are elected to act as our attorney in Washington, D. C, pertaining to our local affairs with the Government, as we may present them to you hereafter And the reason for this explanation is this: We don't want to be classed witli the James I. Coffey gang. He has been writing letters here, wanting our chiefs to go with him to Washington, D. C. But as a band of the Bois Fort Chippewa Indians we would not allow this, for we have found out he is not what he represents himself to be, and he is not the man who would care to take the interest to better our conditions. So we very strongly repudiate anything that he might present to the department concerning our afflairs as the Bois Fort Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota. S or find out the reason why. Congressman C. B. Miller knows about this aiid may be able to assist you in the matter, as Mr. Orr has written to him about it. 106080—19 2 18 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 4th. Another thing, we are unable to get our ponies shod and our sleighs re- paired, for there is no blacksmith to do the worli at this time. . 5th. Find out why our expenses in attending the general council of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota at Bemid.ii, Minn., last summer are not yet paid. We have sent in our vouchers, but never heard anything about it since. 6th. Here is a little complaint from our old people at this agency on ac- count of stove wood. They haul long poles to the old people and make them cut it Into stove length, which is very hard to do for the old widows in cold- and stormy weather. 7th. We want to request the department through you to let our children who are now attending the Vermilion Lake boarding school to come and stay home during epidemic of, the flu, and attend the day school here at Nett Lake where we can look after them, as we have been informed the sickness is spreading again in. that section of the country. Very respectfully, John Johnson, or Majiskung, Chief. Moses Day, or Daybwawaindung, Chief. John Nett Lake, Headman. Jim Smith, Chairman of council. F. H. Pequitte, Secretary of council. The Chairman. The committee will now hear you, Mr. Coffey. STATEMENT OF MK. JAMES I. COFFEY. Mr. CorrET. I want to simply say that everything that Mr. Ballin- ger has said is not true and is not borne out by the facts. Now, we have a reference to this matter by the chief of the Nett Lake Reser- vation, Avho attended the general council. Here is a speech of one of the head chiefs there : Chief Day-B\vay-V\'ay-dung. chief of the Bois Fort Indian Reservation, spoke iind stated that he was here at the city of Bemidji, Minn., last July to partici- pate in the General Council of Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, but that he was denied seat and sent back home ; he is now pleased to see that this is a general council of the full-blood Indians of Minnesota, his relatives and friends, and this is such a council his ideals desired. He further sates that he is very glad to be with his brothers, the regular Chippewa Indians of Minne- sota, in their general council. This is the action of the, general council. — this last general coun- cil — and this is the chief of that reservation, which contains this statement here that Ballinger just placed in there. I want to show you the status there these men are in The Chairman. What men are you talking about? Mr. Coffey. As representatives. Here is their appointment, dated Red Lake, Minn. : Red Lake, Mink. Pursuant to authority \pst(>(l in me by article 6, section 1. of the by-laws of the general council of all tlie Chippewas in Minnesota, I have and do hereby appoint: (1) B. L. Fairbnnks, from the White Earth Reservation; (2) Frank D. Beaidieu, from the White Earth Reservation; (3) Edward L. Rogers, from the White Earth Reservation: (4) Paul H. Beaulieu, ^rom the Red Lake Reser- vation; (5) John Arten. from the Fond du Lac Reservation, as members of tlie legislative committee of said general council, to proceed to the city of Washington, D. ('., at such time as they deem expedient, and there in the liame anil on behalf of the Minnesota Chippewas take such action as may be requisite and necessary to secure tlie enforcement of all treaty obligations with said tribes or any band thereof, and the enforcement of the terms and provision:- of the agreement entered into' with the Unitpd States pursuant to the provi- sions of the act of January ]4, 1889, and to prosecute any claims of said In- dians arising out of any violation by the United States of any provision of an'i such treaty or agreement, to the end that the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota INDIAN APPKOPKIATIOIS' BILL, 1920, 19 may receive from the United States all rights and privileges secuired to them t)y their treaties and agreements with the United States. Given under my hand and the seal of the general council this 11th duv of October, A. D. 1918. J. G. Morrison, Jr., President of the Ocncral Cmineil of the Chippewa Indians of Minne.fota. Attest : PAtri. H. Beaulieu, Secretarii. The Chairman. When was that signed? Mr. CorFEY. It is signed by J. G. Morrison, jr., on the 11th of October, 1918. Here is the constitution that he quotes in his ap- pointment — Article 6, section 1, states: At the annual meetius the newb- elected president shall appoint the follow- ing committees for the ensuing year and such other committees as he may deem advisable : Committee on resolutions ; committee on finance ; committee on cre- dentials; committee on legislation. All appointments should be made at the general council before adjournment. That appointment should have been made at the meeting of the general council before adjurnment. The council ad- journed on the 8th day of July last, and the appointment should have been made before adjournment, but it was not made until three months thereafter, the 11th day of October. So the appointment went by default, and these gentlemen here are without any legal status, according to their own constitution. The Chairman. Are you against this appropriation of $15,000; are you opposing that ? Mr. Coffey. The full bloods want that for their general council. Here is the amendment that Senator Nelson introduced with refer- ence to that matter. The Chairman. The full bloods want the entire $15,000? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. The Chairman. They are blooded all right, whether they are full blood or not. Mr. Coffey. They have never had a cent. The Chairman. Some of this $15,000 will be used for the full bloods; is that not sufficient? Can they not get along with part of the $15,000? Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, I move that debate on this matter be closed and that we figure it out in executive session. Mr. Coffey. One second The Chairman. No. Mr. Coffey. I want to show you what was done with the last ap- propriation. There, was $10,000 appropriated last year and not one cent was used for the general council, and over $7,000 was used up. The Chairman. The Committee will look into this matter and try to do justice. _, . . . » , Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Chairman, I have a brief, with reference to the general situation of the Indians there. It cites the authorities, and I would like to have it put into the record, particularly in view of Mr. Meritt's statement. A copy oi that has been furnished the de- partment and has been considered by it. Mr. Coffey. I want to say this. Mr. Ballinger is entirely respou sible for all this row between the Chippewa Indians. 20 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. Senator. Curtis. May I ask a question right -there. Could ^je noi settle all this dilEculty, Mr. Commissioner, by passing an Act o± Con- gress distributing this money pro rata between these tribes as li belongs to them? Mr. Meeitt. That could be settled, very largely, and I have ai item of legislation that I will dffer in a very few minutes on thai subject. The Chaieman. We will pass that. Senator Kendeick. Before we pass this, I am constrained to re- mark upon that wonderful new blood that we are to have in the poli- tics of our Nation one of these days when these men become politi- cians of the future. Mr. CormET. If they run up against men like Ballinger very mucli longer they will all have to be. Mr. MiCHELET (representing Senator Nelson). Mr. Chairman Senator Nelson introduced an amendment here making that $15,000 At the time he drew that amendment he was not aware that there was an item in the bill for $10,000, and consequently he is not press- ing that amendment. The Chaieman. I have before me Senator Nelson's amendment which provides for $15,000. He was not aware of that fact. Mr. MiCHELET. Yes, sir; he was not aware of that item, and he does not press it. Senator McNaey. What have you to say, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. We want the item amended as we have suggested, It will save a great deal of trouble among the Chippewa Indians, It will prevent one faction from dominating the other, and we would have funds to pay up all back bills. Senator McNapt. You want the word " third " inserted after the word " second," making it read " during the second and third " ? Mr. Meritt. " During the second and third," in line 10. Strike out " including " and insert the words " Chippewa delegates." We want all the language stricken out after the word " available " ir line 13 down to and including line 17. Senator Curtis. How are you going to arrange, if you strike thai out, to get these accounts? Mr. Meritt. We will do that. Senator Curtis. How will you do that? Mr. Meritt. They will be submitted to our office and we will ap- prove those accounts and transmit them to the auditor for approval Senator Curtis. Submitted by whom ? Mr. Meeitt. By both factions. They are only too glad to submil the accounts to be paid, and they are clamoring for them to be paic now. Mr. CoEFEx. Will you please read that again? Mr. Meeitt. I showed you a copy of the amendment. Senator Curtis. The diificulty is that your amendment does no' provide how it shall be submitted to your office. Mr. Meritt. The very amendment they are insisting upon there i: what has brought about all this trouble. Senator Curtis. The last three or four lines? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. We called the attention of the committee t( that last year. It enables the Morrison Council to pass these billi INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 21 to the auditor, and we are simply the transmission channel without any discretion whatever. That very language is what has "brought about this controversy, and we want that language stricken out of this bill. Senator Xugent. In other words, they certify to whatever that council sees fit to be certified? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. And you are bound by it? Mr. Meritt. The language which I have suggested is clear, and we will pay all these bills both for the IMorrison faction and the Coffey faction and clean up all these accounts. Senator Kendeick. All past-due obligations? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Kendrick. And proceed under a different system? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNaet. I move the adoption of the section as amended by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. Mr. Rogers (of the delegation). If you are going to pass on this amendment definitely at this time, we would like to be heard. The Chairman. What is your objection to paying these past-due bills ? Mr. Rogers. Because the very thing they are presenting at this time is the very thing that has caused this faction amongst us, and we want to cover that once and for all. Senator McNary. What about the bills that have, been incurred; who would stand the loss of those ? Mr. Eogees. The general council bills have been paid by the items in the bill now, with but one change of the words " second " to "third." Senator McNary. What about Mr. Meritt's position that there are some bills left over from the second session ? Mr. Rogers. If you are going to pay Mr. Coffey's bills you will have to make a special provision for that because we do not want anything that will injure our general council and its standing before Congress. If we are going to spend any money -out of our tribal funds we want to spend it in our own way. We incur those bills and want to certify that they have been incurred and ought to be paid. Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, I am going to move to strike out the whole item, from line 3 to line 17, on page 28. The Chairman. The Senator from Kansas moves to strike out the entire item. (The motion was not agreed to.) The Chairman. The question is on agreeing to the item as read by the commissioner. (The item was agreed to.) PRO EATING TRIBAL FUNDS, CHIPPEWAS. Mr. Mebitt. The next item we offer is a very important item and :t reads as follows : The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to pro rate the principal !unds of the Chippewa Indians in the Treasury of the United States arising inder the provisions of the act approved January 14, 1889 (25 Stats., 642), 22 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL, 1920. except such amount as may be necessary for the maintenance and operation ol the Chippewa schools, so as to credit each enrolled member of the tribe witn an equal share and to pay the same to the Indians under such rules ana regulations as the said Secretary may prescribe : Provided, That the snare ol minors and incompetents may be placed to their credit as individual Indian money and paid to or expended for their beneflt as their needs require. Senator Kendkick. Is that a new item? Mr. Meritt. It is a new item. You will recall that the last Indian appropriation act carries an item authorizing the pro rating of all tribal funds capable of being pro rated. That is a matter of policy that has alreadj^ been adopted by Congress and also heartily con- curred in by the department. We endeavored in this bill to get legis- lation to close the tribal rolls so as to pay out this fund. Senator Curtis. Have you the rolls in such condition that you could make this distribution ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; the Chippewa rolls are in condition so that we could make this distribution. Senator Curtis. To all of the five> tribes ? Mr. Meritt. This would not apply to the Five Civilized Tribes. Senator Curtis. Oh, I do not mean that ; I mean the five tribes up there — the five or six tribes interested in this fund. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; all of the tribes but the mixed-blood dele- gates objected to that item of legislation applying to the Chippewas, and they got the Chippewas excluded from that provision. That occasioned a doubt in the minds of the department as to whether or not we now have authority to pay out this fund, and we want the authority made perfectly clear. A great many of the Chippewa Indians have been complaining because they are competent Indians and they have shares in this $6,000,000 and want the money ]>aid to them. We want to pay all the moneys that it is possible to pay out to these competent Indians and let them take their share of the property and go on their way rejoicing. Senator Curtis. Would there be any danger of any of the members being left out if we adopted it now, by their absence from the reser- vation, or by being in the penitentiary, or in the Army ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; we have complete rolls, so that no Chippewa Indians would be deprived of any property by reason of the passage of this act. Senator Curtis. Are there any contests? Mr. Meritt. There are always more or less contests. There are certain people on the rolls that the other Chippewa Indians think should not be there, but the department has passed upon that ques- tion and has decided, some time since, that those names would not be stricken from the rolls. Senator Curtis. Are there any applications for enrollment ? Mr. Meritt. There are a few applications for enrollment. Senator Cuetis. How long will it take to get rid of those ? Mr. Meritt. We could dispose of those cases within the next 9C days. We would give notice to all applicants to submit their appli- cations for enrollment and close the rolls and pay out this money tc these Indians. Senator ICendeick. How about the children who are born if any, between now and the time you pay the money out; would 'thev be enrolled ? INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 23 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; tliey would be enrolled. Senator Curtis. Would that provision then close the rolls? Mr. Meritt. It would not close the rolls. Senator Curtis. Because they have additional property ? Mr. Meritt. They have additional property and there will be ad- ditional funds coming in, but the people would get their share of the present taoney available. Senator Curtis. What is your provision in regard to enrolling the new borns? Mr. Meritt. It is not necessary to have a provision for that, be- cause we have already an existing law covering that subject. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee as to that item? Senator Curtis. This is a very important subject. I think it ought to be done, but if the Indians here are in a position to say anything about it I would, of course, like to know what they have to say. The Chairman. Mr. Rogers desires to be heard. Senator Curtis. In opposition to it or in favor of it ? Mr. Rogers. I am little in favor of it and partly not in favor of it. STATEMENT OF MR. EDWAKB L. ROGERS, WALKER, MINN. Mr. Rogers. Gentlemen, this is one of the things which we want — • that is, a pro ratii distribution of our funds — but the item as intro- duced by Mr> Meritt does not cover the ground fully, not thoroughly enough. We want a distribution and a pro rata distribution of our funds; that is all right, but that part which has reference to the credit — and I will read it so that I will have it more thoroughly be- fore you, so that I can explain it better — begins about the middle of the amendment : So as to credit each eiirolled nieiulier of the trilie with un e(iual share and to pay tlie same to the Indian under sucli rule^ and regulations as tlie said secre- tary may prescribe : Provided, Tliat the shares of tlie minors and incompetents may be placed to their credit as individual Indian money and paid to or ex- pended for their benefit as their needs require. Xow, that is one of the most important regulations, and that part of it we must oppose. Take it in Minnesota, for example. I should judge that there are 90 per cent of the Indians in Minnesota who might be termed competent. I think Mr. Maritt, a year ago, made that statement before the conmiittee. Senator Xugent. Ninety per cent competent? Mr. Rogers. Competent, yes. j\Ir. Meeitt. Let me correct that statement. I said 90 per cent of the adult mixed-blood Indians of the White Earth Reservation were competent. Mr. Rogers. I will correct that ; that is right. Mr. Meritt. But I would not say that 90 per cent of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota are competent for the reason that probably 50 per cent of them are minors, and probably 60 per cent of the adults, outside of the White Earth Reservation, are incompetent, so far as (he entire handling of their property is concerned. ' Mr. Rogers. Now, Mr. Meritt is right, as far as the White Earth Reservation is concerned. Ninety per cent of the White Earth adults 24 IKDIA^' APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. are competent. They are really not under the control or jurisdiction- of the Department of the Interior. I know personally that other ' reservations outside of this one here have Indians residing there ]ust as fully competent to handle their own affairs as those on the \\ hite Earth Reservation. But leaving that aside, here we have, on the statement of Mr. Meritt, 90 per cent of the White Earth Indians as competent. That is to say, they are the same as any Senator here m this room. Mr. Meeitt. May I correct you? I did not say that 90 per cent of the White Earth Indians are competent. Mr. Rogers. Ninety per cent of the adults. ' Mr. Meeitt. Ninety per cent of the adult mixed bloods. Mr. RoGEEs. Now, take this adult Indian who is a full-fledged American citizen, and as fast as his children are born they grab him and place him under the control and jurisdiction of the bureau. They form a sort of endless chain. You may stand here until the day of judgment and there will still be minor Indians on their rolls, and that is one thing we, want to get from under. When they come to say that I am a competent Indian, I want them to say that my children are competent. Senator Cuetis. Why could you not cover that by saying that this money could be put into the Treasury to be paid to the minors when they arrive at the age of 21, if they are competent? Mr. RoGEES. If the minors are competent? Senator Cuetis. Yes ; if they are competent. Mr. RoGEES. You will still have the endless chain. Senator Cuetis. But you have to protect the minors' money. What you want is to have the minors' money turned over to the father or mother ? Mr. RoGEES. If the father is competent and a full American citizen, turn the care of his children over to him and let him look after them. Senator Cuetis. Then you take tlie inheritance from him. Now, I do not want to reflect upon you people at all, but that was followed out with the Pottawotomies in Kansar pretty thoroughly, and about 90 per cent of the children's property was dissipated by the fathers and mothers. That was an actual experience. The Chaiemax. What per cent was that. Senator? Senator Cue'jts. About 90 per cent. Thej^ took their allotments where the allotmentr went to the children, and the parent was per- mitted to sell. The Chaieman. Not only is that true with respect to Indians, but even among civilized white persons that is so unless they give the best of bonds. Senator Cuetis. They were kno\vn as the citizen band of Pottawoto- mies, and the fathers even sold the land of the child that was pat- ented to the child in the name of the father, and the Supreme Court of our State held that the deed of the father — because it went, down through the father to the child — was a good deed, and took the land away from the child, and for one I never would consent to giving the father entire jurisdiction. The Chaieman. I think you are right. Senator Curtis. I think this would be fair, as has been done on other reservations, to pay them the interest and take care of them INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 25 nth their funds; pay them the interest on the fund, but leave the and itself to the child when it arrives of age. What ^^■ould you say 3 paying the interest to the children ? Mr. RoGEES. Just the interest, the interest on the principal fund? Senator Curtis. Yes; that gives the child, when it arrives of age, fund which will enable him to start out with something. Senator Xtjgent. And it will give you the interest in the mean- ime. Mr. EoGERS. I think we have that now. Senator Cietis. I know, but under this umondment that would lot be done unless the Indian Office wanted to do it. Mr, Meeitt. Right in that connection, we take the position that s-here an Indian has received his patent in fe?, and is competent^ le may handle the funds of his minor child provided he will go into he local courts and have himself appointed guardian and be him- elf responsible to the local court. The CHAiEiNtAx. Just like you and I would have to do. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Mr. Rogers. Let me read this amendment in lieu of the one of- ered by the commissioner. (The paper referred to is here printed in full, as follows:) The Secretary of the Interior is further authorised and directed to pay to ach and every member of the Chippewa Tribe of Indians of Minnesota en- itled to receive the same the sum of .$300 out of the principal fund standing o the credit of said tribe in the Treasury of tlie United States. That such layments shall be made direct to all adult Indians who have received patents Q fee to their allotments and to all other Indians who are competent to re- elve the same ; that the shares of minors and other incompetents shall be lald to their legally appointed guardians, and where no such guardian has leen or Is appointed the Secretary may, In his discretion, pay the same to he parent or next of kin upon being satisfied that the money will be properly xpended for the benefit of such minor or incompetent or to use the same for he benefit of such incompetent. The Chairman. Leave that with the committee and we will look nto it. That is your view as to how it sho,uld be clone t Mr. Rogers. Yes; in lieu of the one offered by the department. The Chairman. Surely you do not expect this committee to ap- )rove legislation which will pay over to an adult or any person with- lut proper bonds, and without any strings from the department, the aoney of a dhild ? Do you expect that ? Mr. Rogers. No ; I really expect what it states in the amendment • have offered. That provides that bond should be given the same ,s you would in your own affairs. Senator Kendeick. Does not your amendment provide that under ertain conditions the Secretary may exercise discretion to pay the loney to those guardians without bond ? Senator Curtis. I do not like to recount old history, but I have ad some experience with these Indians, where they gave the bond ti the probate court, and I have looked into hundreds of cases where tie bonds were worthless and the money was dissipated, and the hild had no money when he became of age. The Chaieman. I think tihe only way to do is to let the department old the fund and pay the interest, and when the child is 21 he will eceive the money. 26 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Nugent. I move that, the matter be passed over tem- porarily. (The motion was agreed to.) MINERAL LAND IN MINNESOTA. :Mr. AIeeitt. The next Chippewa item is a new one., and reads as follows : Hereafter on ceded lai)ds in tbe State of Minnesota embraced within the provisions of the law entitled "An act for the relief and civilization of the Chijipewa Indians in the State of Minnesota," approved January 14, 1889, the minerals in and mineral rights pertaining to any of the lands, the cession of which was provided for in said act and which the United States has not con- veyed title, shall be and remain in and are reserved for the use and beneht of the Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota. That language was included in our estimate two years ago. It was at that time urged by the Chippewa Indians. It is found on page 458 of the hearings of the Senate Committee on H. E. 10385. Senator Ccrtis. Were not the minerals reserved in the origmal 1889 act? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir ; there are some valuable minerals in the land in Minnesota, and we believe that in disposing of this land to the homestead settlers that the Indians should get the benefit of any minerals that may be in those lands. Senator Nugent. Is that the sole purpose of the amendment'^ Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. I believe there will be no contest among the Indians with respect to it. I believe they are all in favor of it. , Senator Curtis. You have similar provisions with regard to other reservations, have you not? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. I am surprised it was not included in this before. (The item was agreed to.) RESTOEATION OF HOMES DESTROTED BT FOREST FIRES. Mr. ]Meeitt. The next item reads as follows: The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to Avitlidraw from the Treasury of the United States, the sum of $60,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, and to expend or pay tlie same, under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe, for the erection or purchase of homes for Chippewa Indians in said State- whose homes were destroyed by forest fires during the year 1918, to be immediately available and to remain available until expended : Provided, That said sum may be used for material and labor for the construction of sucli houses ; for the purchase of portable houses ; or to pay for the erection of houses under contract, said contract to be executed or approved by the superintendent, who shall also inspect and approve all work done or houses erected or pur chased hereunder before making payment therefor ; Provided further, That nol to exceed $1,000 may be used for the purchase or construction of any one home and. Provided further. That not to exceed five per cent of the amount expendec] may be used for administrative purposes. Senator Curtis. Did you offer that in the House? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Nugent. Is that reimbursable? Mr. Meeitt. That comes out of the funds of the Chippewa Indians INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 27 Senator Nugent. Why should the funds of the tribe of Chippewa [ndians be uSed for the purpose of building houses for individuals ivithout repayment? Mr. Meritt. I will state that there was recently a forep;t fire in :he Chippewa country, and quite a number of Indians lost their lomes, and this is an emergency provision which it is construed would come within the provisions of the Nelson Act. There are [ndians here who are familiar with that local situation and they ;an give you some information on the subject. Senator Nttgent. I have no objection to the expenditure if there IS no contest with respect to it. STATEMENT OF MR. JAMES I. COFFEY. Mr. Coffey. The situation is this : Those people that have been burned out had acquired money over and above others there on iccount of the large quantity of pine timber that was standing upon their alloted land that they took. The law provided no pine land should be allotted to the Indians under the Nelson Act, but these people have good pine land and have gotten, some of them, as much as $15,000 or $20,000 off of their pine, and with that money they 3onstructed their dwellings and improved their allotments; while there are a large number of Indians who did not get any money at ill in that way, who had not any timber on their allotments. Well, those people are the ones that got burned out, those that had their dwellings, and the Indians who did not- get any money to build houses with did not have anything to burn. Now, that is the man whose money is proposed to be taken by this appropriation of 150,000 — the man who received no money from any pine to recon- struct the buildings, while the man who did receive the money lost the dwelling. The proposition is that finally, while the matter is up, to pay out their tribal funds per capita, where if these Indians be given their share of tribal funds there will be sufficient there to reconstruct their homes, and the Indians who did not get any money from any pine timber would not be robbed of their part. Senator Cuhtis. What do your people say about this? Is the council in favor of it — ^these gentlemen ? Mr. KoGEKS. The fire occurred and raged through the northern part of Minnesota. About a thousand lives were lost in the fire, and it burned out a lot of homes, including those of these Indians, and this matter was taken up -nith the executive committee of the general iouncil and they were willing to have it done. Senator Kexdrick. I move its adoption. (The motion was agreed to.) SUPPORT AND CIVILIZATION OF CHIPPEWA INDIANS. Mr. Meritt. The next item is a controverted item, and our esti- nate reads as follows Senator Curtis. Wait one moment. Is tliat for expenses? Mr. Meuitt. For administrative expenses. 28 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION' BILL, 1920. Senator Curtis. I want to state with respect to that that the junior Senator from Minnesota (Mr. Kellogg) told me to notify the com- mittee that if that item came up that he was strongly opposed to it, and I understood that Senator IS^elson was opposed to it, and I doubt if we should proceed with that item without notifying either Senator Nelson or Senator Kellogg to be here. The Chairman. It is not in the bill? Senator Curtis. It was stricken out in the House. Mr. Meritt. May I read the item for the record ? It is as follows : The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the Treasury of the United States, at liis discretion, the sum of .$160,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the principal sum on deposit to the credit of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota, arising under section 7 of tlie act of .January 14, 1S89. entitled "An act for the relief and civilization of the Chippewa Indians in the Sate of Minnesota," and to use the same for the purpose of promoting civilization and self-support among the said Indians in manner and for purposes provided for in said act. Mr. Chairman, we realize that there is a contest with respect to this item, and that it is opposed by certain Chippewa Indians. We realize also that it will be necessary for us to continue these agencies among these 11,000 Chippewa Indians, otherwise there would be severe suffering among the full bloods and minors. We are not insisting upon this appropriation being payable out of the Chippewa funds. If Congress will give us a gratuity appropriation to main- tain these agencies, it will be entirely satisfactory to us, and it will also be satisfactory to all the Indians. I suggest, in view of the opposition of the two Senators from Minnesota to the wording of this item, that the item be incorporated in the bill to read as follows : For support and civilization of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minne- sota, including pay of employees, $150,000. Senator Curtis. Mr. Meritt, I do not recall whether it was a Mem- ber of the House or a- Senator who spoke to me about this, but the statement was made to me that nowhere near that amount was needed; that it was thought you people were very extravagant in the expenditure of money up there. What about your force; can you reduce it ? Mr. Meritt. We reduced the appropriation from $185,000 two years ago to $175,000 last year : I believe that Avas the amount. This year we are asking for only $160,000, but in order to show our good faith in this matter and cut the appropriation to the very bone, we will reduce our estimate to $150,000, and with a view of making a further reduction next year, if possible. I will ask that that be put in the bill, Mr. Chainnan. The Chairman. Is this estimated for'^ Mr. Meritt. We estimated for $160,000, but we reduce our estimate to $150,000. The Chairman. This was paid out of the tribal funds last year? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; we are now asking that it be made a gratuity appropriation, the same as appropriations for other agencies. The CHAipaiAN. Last 3'ear we made this appropriation out of the tribal funds; we did not have any gratuity out of the Treasury for this purpose. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 29 Senator Kendeick. Mr. Chairman, would this plan suggested by le commissioner in any way conflict with the iudgment of Senators ho are interested in this matter — Senators Kellogg and Nelson — •ould this be in conflict with their judgment? Senator Curtis. I suggest that the matter be passed over and rought to their attention. I do not think we should give a gratuity. Mr. Meritt. My understanding is that their objection is based pon the fact that it comes out of the funds of the Chippewa Indians, nd the Chippewa Indians have protested against the use of their unds. Senator Kendeick. Xot as provided for under your suggestion. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. I would suggest that this item, as I have ecommended, be incorporated in the bill, and if there is any objec- ion on the part of the Senators. I will appear before the committee, nd we will discuss the matter later, if that is agreeable. Senator Nugent. I very seriously object, with the information I .ave, to taking that $150,000 out of the public Treasury when it is or the purpose of taking care of these people who have $6,000,000 in he Treasury themselves. It is like asking for an appropriation for he conduct of the affairs of the State of Idaho. It would appear to le appropriate to take care of our people when ^\e have the money rith which we can do it. The Chaie^ian. Especially when we did it last year. That is ?hat impresses me. We appropriated $175,000. Senator Xugent. Out of the tribal funds? The Chaiesian. Yes; and now to go back to the Treasury again [oes not seem exactly right. I am very loath to fly in the face of he Senator from this State. When they take a view of a situation am inclined to accept it as a sound view. Senator Curtis. Why not pass it over. Mr. EoGEES. Over at the House, when this matter was considered, fc was found that it was not necessary to spend' any money whatever a the State of Minnesota for the support and civilization of the )hippeA\ as. The Chaibmax. You say it was found. What is your view ? Mr. EoGERS. My view is that you would not have a right to take it ut of the public "funds. Even 'if you have the right to spend it out f our funds, you certainly have not that right. Senator Curtis. Do you mean that you do not need agents or su- lerintendents or schools or teachers or anything of that kind ? Mr. KoGEES. Our legislature has petitioned Congress to do away ,nth tlie Indian Bureau, as far as we are concerned in the State of linnesota, because we are simply the same as anybody else. Senator Nugent. You mean the legislature of the State of Minne- ota? Mr. EoGEES. Yes, sir. The Chaieman. Yes ; the State legislature passed it. Mr. RoGEES. It was passed on January 30, 1 believe. (The chairman read the resolution referred to.) Mr. Meeitt. That is a protest against the use of trust funds. The Chaiemax. Do you want that to go into the record? Mr. KoGEES. Yes, sir. 30 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. (The resolution referred to is printed in full, as follows:) BESOLtmON OF THE SENATE IN RELATION TO THE CHIPPEWA INDIAN TRIBAL FUNDS IN HANDS OP TEDEBAL GOVERNMENT. Resolution introduced by Senator Baldwin. Whereas the great majority of the people of Chippewa Indian blood residing in the State of Minnesota are citizens of said State and perform all the obligations imposed by the State upon all other citizens ; and Whereas the great majority of the Chippewa people in the State of Minnesota are, in the opinion of the Senate of Minnesota, capable of managing and con- trolling their property interests; and Whereas the Government of the United States through its Bureau of Indian Affairs has maintained for a number of years and Is now maintaining a large fdrce of agents and employees in connection with the administration of said ti-ust at, a very considerable expense, which expense is being paid out of the trust funds of said Indians ; and Whereas we are of the opinion that the further maintenance of this force of agents and employees at the expense of said trust fund has become un- necessary : Now, therefore. Be it resolved by the ^^eiiate of the State of Minnesota, That the Congress of the United States be, and it is hereby, requested to discontinue the use of said trust fund for the purposes hereinbefore mentioned, and that it be further requested to enact such legislation as will enable said Chippewa people to secure a final settlement of their tribal affairs with the United States Govern- ment, due regard, being had for the well-being of said Indians. Be it further resolved, That the Senators and Representatives in the Con- gress of the United States from the State of Minnesota be requested to assist in carrying out the purposes for which this resolution was designed. Be it further resolved, That a duly authenticated copy of this resolution be transmitted to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, that another be transmitted to the President of the Senate of the Congress of the United States, and that copies be sent to each Member of the Senate and House of Representa- tives from the State of Minnesota, and that as so amended the same do pass. STATEMENT OF PETER GRAVES, ONEGO, MINN. Mr. Graves. Mr. Chairman, I am representing the Eed Lake Band, and I would like to be heard. Here is the last council proceedings containing a resolution. The Chairman. What do a'ou want to be heard upon, this appro priation of $170,000? Mr. Graves. Yes, sir. Resolution 5 will tell what the Red Lake Indians want. It is as follows : It is herel).v resolved that the Government of thf Ignited States, through the Indian Service, should continue the system of civilizing an'd caring for the Red Lake Band of Indians by means of schools, hospitals, and agencies in accord- ance with the stipulations of the existing act of Congress pei-taining to the Red Lake Band. I do not know how the Red Lake Indians are going to be satisfied. They have an hiterest in this $6,000,000 fund and they believe that they need protection from the Government at present more so than ever before, and if the Government would furnish the money that would be very well. Anyone would l>e very much satisfied "to use somebody else's money, but I do not think these Red Lake Indians would be satisfied to have that protection, taken away from thera. The Chairman. Let me understand you. You say the Red Like Band of Chippewas wants this ajipropriation ? Mr. Graves. They want Government protection. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 31 The Chairman. They want schools and administration such as they have always had? Mr. Graves. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Are they willing that it should be taken out of their funds? Mr. Graves. Yes, sir; if the Government will not furnish the money, they certainly do ; because we need this protection. Senator Curtis. The question is, if you could release a good many of these who are competent, Mr. Meritt, could you not cut this appro- priation down to a reasonable amount to take care of the incompetent ones and look after the interests of the minors where the funds were not turned over to the parents? Mr. Meritt. That is exactly our purpose, or what is going to be our purpose, and we intend to release from Government jurisdic- tion in this Chippewa country all mixed-blood Indians who are adults, and able bodied, of one-half Indian blood or less. Senator Curtis. When are you going to do that? Mr. Meeitt. We are going to begin on that work \ ery soon. Senator Curtis. Under the existing law have you authority to pay them the money that is in the Treasury to their credit — that is, their pro rata share? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; that is one reason we are asking for this legislation. I desire to say that the statement made by Mr. Rogers a few moments ago that the House decided we should not have any money is a misstatement of fact. This is the situation : We went be- fore the House committee and these gentlemen representing the mixed-blood Indians of Minnesota, and not representing the full- blood Indians of Minnesota, protested against this appropriation, and after hearing their protest the House Indian Committee placea that item in the bill exactly as we had requested in our estimates. These gentlemen went around among the membership of the House, and when it came up on the floor of the House there were about 40 or 50 Members present, and on the basis of their misrepresentations to various Members of the House, who were not members of the In- dian Committee, that item was voted out on the floor of the House when there were fewer than 50 Members present, and I want to state to the gentlemen of this committee that at least one man who voted for that item to be stricken out has since discovered that he had the' facts misrepresented to him and he is now of a different opinion. When they come here and make these misstatements about these mat- ters it ought to be set right with the committee. These men headed by John Carl do not represent the full-blood Indians of Minnesota; they represent the mixed-blood Indians of Minnesota, and they are willing that the full bloods should get out from under the jurisdiction of the Government, when they know in their own minds and in their own hearts that practically 90 per rent of these full bloods who would be removed from the protection af the Government would lose their property and become jmupers \vithin 90 days after the passage of that legislation. I want to pro- test to this committee against any such statements as have been made aere by these mixed bloods. Take the record of the AAHiite Earth Reservation. After the passage of the Clapp Act in 190(), which removed department jurisdiction from all adult Indians tliere less 32 IXDIAX APPROPBIATION BILL, 1920. than full blood, it is a well-lviiown fact that 90 per cent of tl^o^.^ In- dians were robbed of their property, and one of the very mixed-blood Indians here who are now contending that this legislation be passed is o-uiltv of robbino- those Indians of their property, and I want to protest 'ae-ainst anv statement that those men may make who come here claimin«- to represent the full-blood Indians of Minnesota, be- cause thev do not represent those Indians, and there are records showino- that one of these very men here has been robbing those In- ; dians in Minnesota. I protest against any statements they may make showing that the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota ought to have relief from the protection of the Government. - 1 You aslc the Indians here, headed by Mr. Coffey, who represents the full-blood Indians of Minnesota, and they will tell you that those mixed-blood Indians are simply waiting for an opportunity to get their hands on the property of the full-blood Indians of Minnesota so they can rob them of their property. [Applause among the Indians.] The Chair3ian. I think that is a very clear statement. Mr. Graves asks that this paper go into the record. Without objection, it will be incorporated in the record. (The paper referred to is as follows:) Red Lake, Minn., December 7, 1918. Pkocioedings op the Gexekal Codncil. of the Bed Lake Band of Chippewa Indians. In accfirdauee with notice issued for the Red Lake Indian Council to meet in session this 27tli day of Deceniber, 1918, .Joseph B. Jonrdaln, chairman of the Red Lal-ce Indian Council, called the council to order at 3 p. m., with 29 members present, and the matter of adjournment of the council and its meeting to tate place at Ponemah, Minn., was taken up ; motion was made by Way-oon-dlug that the council adjourn and resume its sitting at Ponemah, Minn., on the after- noon of the following day. the 28th, and being duly seconded, a v.ote was taken, the vote resulting 26 for and 2 against. The chairman then declared the council adjourned at 5 p. m., and its sitting to be at Ponemah, Minn., in the afternoon of the following day. Ponemah, Minn., December 28, 1918. The chairman of the council, Joseph B. .Tourdain, called the council to order at 7 p. m., with 41 members of the council present, and the council began its session by considering resolution No. 1. RESOLUTION NO. 1. Be and it is hcrchii resolved. That the communication addressed by the Red Lake delegates to the general council of the Minnesota Chippe^^'as In session, Bemidji, Minn., dated July 13, 1918, reading as follows : This communication to your council now in session in the city of Bemidji, Minn., is to advise yf.ur council that the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians, of the State of Minnesota, through their delegates, of whom have signed this notice, that they have decided to sever their relations to your council and dc not further recognize your said council as a medium for the transaction oi their tribal matters and affairs before the Indian Department and the Congress of the United States. They without doubt having more confidence for justict and fair play from the Government than they would expect from your council which is controlled by men who are fully competent as white men and wh( seem to ignore the real conditions of lesser competent Indians of the differem bands of the Minnesota Chippewas, and who have assumed to take advantag( of the Bed Lake Band by attempting to have Congress enact laws inconsisteii to present laws enjoyed by the Red Lake Band. We, the undersigned, therefow without any regret whatsoever for ourselves and in behalf of the Red Laki INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 33 Band ii,i\e caused this to be a matter Of written record for yonr information and that of the protector and ret'uge of the Red Lake Indians, the United States Government. Nathan J. Head, Peter Sitting, .John English, Jos. C. Roy, Peter ^ Graves. [Signed by thmnb raarlc :1 Pay she ge shig, Ah je dum o, Joheph Jourdain, O dah waunce. No din, Kay gway dub e fcung. One carbon copy to the Secretary of the Interior and one to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. Witnesses to signatures by mark : Nathan J. Head, Peter Graves. which was approved by the General Council of the Red Lage Band of Chippewa Indians In council assembled August 26, 27, and 28, 1918, at Red Lake, Minn., be incorporated In and form a part of the proceedings and records of said Gen- eral Council if the Red Lake Indians in its present session. Jlotion was made and seconded that a vote be taken on the resolution for its adoption or rejection. The voting was had, and the resolution adopted by a vote of 41 for and no vote to the contrary. EESOLT-TION XO. 2. Be it fe-wlved by the Indians of the Red hake Chippoioa Band of Minnesota: in Council assenihled at Red Lake, ^finn., on Aiiguat ',i~, 191S, That the Indians of said Red Lake Band and the General Council of the Red Lake Band of Ohlppewas respectfully petition the Congress of the United States, the honorable Secretary of the Interior, and the Commissioner of Indians Affairs to have enacted into lavi- an act of Congress providing /or the disposition of the moneys and funds derived by said Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians from sales of their timber, which moneys have been and are being deposited in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of said Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians,, the following provisions to be enacted into law : That an act of Congress be passed authorizing a per capita payment to each and every enrolled member of the Bed Lake Band of Chippewa Indians living on the 1st day of April of each year, said payment to be made in April of each year, beginning with the year 1920, of at least $50 per capita to each enrolled member of said Re.d Lake Band of Chippewa Indians, said moneys to be paid out of any moneys received from the sale of the timber of the Bed Lake Indians, either principal or interest, which is on deposit to their credit in the Treasury of the United States, or otherwise, and providing further that the head of each family or guardian be authorized to receive the per capita moneys due .the minor children, enrolled members of said tribe. After a general discussion by the council, motion was made that resolution No. 2 be put to a vote by the council, and, the motion being properly seconded, a vote was taken by the council, resulting in its adoption by a vote of 41 for and none to the contrary. BESOLUTION NO. 3. Be, and it is hereby resolved, That the Congress of the United States, the- Secretary of the Interior, and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs are requested to make every effort to expend judiciously the moneys belonging to the Red take Band of Chippewa Indians; and where expenditures are contemplated, which are in addition to those made in connection with the ordinary operation of the school and agency, that special estimates be prepared and submitted to^ the General Council of the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians prior to th.e appropriation of funds, for their consideration and action. After a general discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded that a vote be taken for Its adoption or rejection. The vote taken resulted In \ts adoption by a vote of 41 for and none to the contrary. RESOLUTION NO. 4. Be, and it is hereby resolved. That the Secretary of the Interior shall not confer allotments of land upon the Red Lake Indians until such time as said: Indians through their general council make requeist for same. After a general discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded", that a vote be taken for its adoption or rejection. The vote- takem resulted m Its adoption by a vdfe of 41 for and ndne to the contrary;. 106080—19 3 34 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL, 1&20. EESOI.UTION NO. 5. Be, ana it is hereby resolved. That tHe Government of the United States, through the Indian Service, should continue its system of civilizing and caring for the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians by means of schools hospitals, and. agencies, in accordance with the stipulations of the existing acts of Con- gress pertaining to the Red Lake Band of Indians ; that the salary of tlic physician supervising the Red Lake Agency Hospital be so increased and sufficient as to induce an expert physician to accept the position. After a general discussion bv the council, motion was made and seconded that a vote be taken for its adoption or rejection. The vote taken resulted in its adoption by a vote of 41 for and none to the contrary. KESOLUTION NO. 6. Be, and it is hereby resolved, In view of the fact that no material benefits are derived by the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, in general, from the celebration held annually on June 14, at White Earth, Minn., that the appropriation for this purpose be discontinued. After a general discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded that a vote be taken for its adoption or rejection. The vote taken resulted in its adoption by a vote of 41 for and none to the contrary. RESOLtTTION NO. 7. Be, and it is hereby resolved, In view of the fact that the Red Lake Indians . liave progressed remarkably alojig agricultural lines, and each year for four years past have defrayed the expenses of an agricultural fair out of their own personal funds, that $1,000 be 'appropriated out of the funds belonging to the Red Lake Band to cover the expenses of this fair, as a farther inducement to, the Red Lake Indians to improve their agricultural possibilities. After a. general discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded that a vote be taken for its adoption or rejection. The vote taken resulted in Its adoption by a vote of 41 for and none to the contrary. KESOLUTION NO. S. Be, and it is hereby, resolved, Inasmuch as there is great necessity for a flour mill and power plant at Red Lake, Minn., to enable the Indians of the Red Lake Reservation to manufacture their own flour, and provide power therefor, which will materially reduce the high cost of living among these Indians, that Congress of the United States appropriate not exceeding $15,000 from funds belonging to the Red Lake Band of Indians for such purposes, in accordance with the recommendation of the superintendent of the Red Lake Indian School ; and a binder and thrashing machine be purchased for the Cross Lake district. After' a gfeneral discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded that a vote be taken for its adoption or rejection. The result of the vote taken was for the adoption of the resolution, the vote being 41 for and none to the contrary. Motion was made and seconded that the council adjourn for the day and meet again the following day — the 28th. The chairman of the council declared the adjournment, it being 10 p. m., and the council to resume its sitting as early as possible the next day. PoNEMAH, Minn., December S9, 1918. The chairman of the council, Joseph B. Jourdain, called the council to order at 4 p. m. Be, and it is hereby, resolved, That the Secretary of the Interior is requested not, until such time as allotments of land are to be made to the Red Lake Indians, to permit the establishment of town sites on the Red Lake Reservatiom.,'1 After a general discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded ' that a vote .be taken. for its adoption or rejection. The vote resulted In its adoption, 41 voting for and none to the contrary. EESOLTTTION NO. 10. Be, and it is hereby, resolved, That the Secretary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs are petitioned to. grant the superiiitendent of INDIAN APPROPRIATION ^ILL, 1920. 35 the Red Lake School authority to lease hay, stumpage, and pasturage lands not used by Indians in remote parts of the Red Lake Reservation, such leases not to exceed from one to two year periods, the provisions of such to be in accord- ance with the rules and regulations of the Indian Office governing the leasing of Indian lands for such purposes. After a general discussion by the council and after having been rejected once, motion was again made to have the resolution recalled for further discussion, and after a lengthy discussion iuotion was made and seconded that a vote be taken for adojjtion or rejection, and the result of the vote was for the adop- tion of the resolution by 37 for and 1 against. RESOLUTION NO. 11 Be, and it is herehy, resolved, That the Secretary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs are petitioned to invest the funds of the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians, derived from the present logging operations, in liberty loan bonds in amounts to leave a reasonable sum to make the annual per capita payments that may. be made and other contingent expenses in the logging operations, this investment to be for patriotic reasons, if in the best judgment of the Secretary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs such action would be considered beneficial for the Red Lake Indians. After a general discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded that vote be taken for its adoption or rejection. The vote resulted in its adop- tion by a vote of 40 for and none to the contrary. KESOI-IITION NO. 12. Be, and it is hereby resolved. That the Secretary of the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs are requested to cause to be embodied in the Indian appropriation bill for the fiscal year 1920 a sum of $1 000 to pay the salary of a bandmaster and $1,000 for the purchase of band instruments, the band instruments to be issued under reimbursable agreements to students ; the funds so appropriated to be taken from moneys derived from logging opera- tions on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, and in accordance with recom- mendations that have been made or may be made by the superintendent of the Red Lake Indian School. After a general discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded that vote be taken for its adoption or rejection. The vote taken resulted in its adoption by a vote of 40 for and none to the contrary. Adjurnment taken at 10 p. m., and to resume its session next day. Council resumes its session 12.30 p. m., December 30, 1918. RESOLUTION NO. 13. Be, and it is hereby resolved, That the State fishery on the Red Lake Indian ReserVjition shall not use more than two pond nets at any one time during the fishing season of 1919, and no other party shall use any pond nets ; one pond net to be set near the town of Redby, Minn., and the other pond net to be set near the Cross Lake Indian School, Ponemah, Minn. The Indians belonging on the Red Lake Indian Reservation shall make an effort to supply the demand for fish created by the State and the sale of same through said State fishery. No person not an enrolled member of the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians shall he allowed to take fish from Red Lake for sale. After a general discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded that vote be taken for its adoption or rejection, and the vote resulted in its adoption by a vote of 39 for and 1 against. RESOLUTION NO. 14. Be and it i^ hereby resolved, That Paul H. Beaulieu, a member of the Red Lake' Band of Chippewa Indians, now acting as secretary of the so-called gen- eral council of the Chippewas of Minnesota, does not possess any authority whatsoever from the Red Lake Indian Council, and does not represent the Red After a general discussion by the council, motion was made and seconded +hnt vote be talten for the adoption or rejection of the resolution. The vote taken resulted in its adoption by the vote of 41 for and none to the contrary. ■ Motion was made and seconded that appointment of six delegates to represent -the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians before the proper officials of the 36 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. department and the Congress of the United States at the city of Washington be taken up. Peter Graves, appointed as the chief delegate, to proceed at once when the necessary authority is granted bv the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and to represent the Red Lalce Band in all matters concerning said band before the Secretary of the Interior, the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and the Congress of tlie United States, and to be kept advised as to the actions of the so-called General Council of the Jiinnesoia Chippewas, and enter protests, if necessary in behalf of the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians in accord-' ance with resolution No. 1, which is a part of the proceedings of this council in its present session; and he shall receive from any moneys to the credit of the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians the sum 'of $5 per day and $4 per diem for meals and lodging in addition to railroad fare from the time he leaves his home and the day of his return in the performance of the duty conferred upon him by the Red Lake Indian Council. John Graves, appointed as delegate and interpreter; Way-oon-ding, ap- pointed as delegate ; No-din, appointed as delegate ; Joseph Jourdain, or Zo- zaince, appointed as delegate; Pay-mway-way-be-nais, appointed as delegate, they to receive eadh for his pay the sum of $3 per day in addition to traveling expenses, meals, and lodgings while in the ser.vice of their people for which they are appointed, and to receive their pay and expenses from any money ■ that may be to the credit of the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians, and they are to be called as soon as the Commissioner of Indian Affairs may arrange their transportation, and he may deem necessary for them to appear before the proper officers of the department and the Indian committees of Congress and to acquaint with Congressmen the wishes and petitions of the Red Lake Band of -Indians. Full power from the Red Lake Indian Council is conferred upon all dele- gates appointed by this council, and the Commissioner of Indian Aifairs is given full power by this council to use any funds to the credit of the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians in payment of the allowances and expenses of the delegates as appointed by this council. The vote of the council was unanimous, 41 for. , The chairman, Joseph B. Jourdain, and the secretary, John Graves, are ap- pointed to present the minutes of this council to Mr. Walter F. Dickens, superin- tendent Red Lake Indian School, for transmittal and recommendations in the premises. The vote of the council was unanimous, 41 for. Motion was made and seconded that the council adjourn without date. After a brief discussion by the council, the chairman announced the council adjourned without date, 12 m. December 31, 1918. We, the undersigned, do hereby certify that the foregoing minutes of the Red Lake Indian Council are correct and true, and we further certify that the following-named councilmen were present at this council, viz : Joseph B. Jour- dain (chairman), John Graves (secretary), Peter Graves (treasurer), Joseph Jourdain (or Zo-zaince), Way me tig osh e wah cumig, Bazil Lawrence,' No din, Be oonce, Kay gway dub e tung, Albert Stately, Esau Stillday, Kay b,ay aus ung, Pay she ge shig, Joseph C, Roy, Pay shah nay quod, Paym way way be nais, Ah zhe day ge shig, Kay kaik o gwon abe, John English, Kay gway je way bin ung, Kay zhe aun e much. An nah quod, Nay tah wub e tung, Gwon ay aus ung, Way do skunzh, George Prentiss, Robert Rain, Kay ge gay ge shig oonce, Ain dus oon ding, Way oon ding, Simon Spears, Kay ge she aus ung. Me shuck eence, Frank English, Saung way way, O gwon aince, Zo zay Boxer, Bah wah be co we nay, Mun e do ge sis oonce, Benjamin Jourdain, No. din, jr., Pe daun ah quod. We further certify that tlie Red Lake Indian CoubcH is composed of 42 mem- bers, all having right to a vote, except the chairman, and we have caused the seal of the Red Lake Indian Council to be hereto affixed. Joseph B. Jouedain, Chairmcm. John Gbaves, Secretary. We, the undersigned, chairman and secretary of the Red Lake Indain Council, in compliance with orders and instructions from the Red Lake Indian Council' have this 2d day of January, 1919, presented the original written proceedings of the Red Lake Indian Council to Mr. Walter P. Dickens, superintendent Red Lake Indian School, for transmittal to the department with his recommen- dations. Joseph B. Jourdain, Chairman. „ .^ ,, , John Gkaves, Secretary. Red Lake, Minn., January 2, 1919. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 37 Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Chairman, in view of the statement of the commissioner, may I have a few minutes in order to reply? The Chairman. How much time do you desire? Mr. Ballingee. I should like to have 10 minutes. The Chaiejiax. I shall have to object to tliat. What do you want to talk about ? Mr. Ballinger. I Avant the committee to know how much money you have been spending outside of this amount here, and how much is available which does not appear. Mr. Meeitt. I want to protest against Attorney Ballinger appear- ing before this committee and pretending tg represent the Indians of Minnesota. He does not represent the Indians of Minnesota. He represents the mixed blood Indians who are here, and I want to say that those mixed blood Indians who are here and their attorney, Mr. Ballinger, are the very ones who have caused this disturbance in the Chippewa country and have brought about the condition there that is terrible. They have brought about a condition where one Indian is fighting another, and Avhat this committee ought to do is to refuse to hear Mr. Ballinger until he represents all the Indians of Minne- sota, and until he comes here with a contract approved by the Com- missioner of Indian Affairs eind the Secretary of the Interior under the existing law, he should not be heard as a i-epresentative of the Chippewa Indians. I protest against the misstatements of Mr. Bal- linger — the constant misstatement of Mr. Ballinger before this com- mittee about these matters. The Chaieman. Now, Mr. Ballinger, you were paid some $1,600 last year out of this $10,000 fund? Mr. Ballinger. No, sir; I was paid $1,500. The Chairman. No ; the record shows that you were paid the sum of $1,684.25. Mr. Ballinger. No, sir ; I received about $1,500. There were cer- tain expenses. The Chairman. All right. Now, you do not claim to represent these full bloods ? • Mr. Ballingee. I claim that I am representing the entire tribe. The Chaieman. Let us see your authority, or your papers. 'Has it been approved by the Secretary of the Interior ? Mr. Ballingee. No, sir. The Chaieman. Then you do not represent theni. Mr. Ballingee. The general council was given authority to trans- act its oAvn business, and not with the approval of the Secretary. The Chairman. You do not represent the full bloods ? Mr. Ballingee. The general council represents the full bloods. Now, Mr. Meritt has been heard in an assault upon me and my clients, and it is only fair, I think, for me to submit the facts. I am going- to deal with the records in these hearings. I am not going outside of the records. The Chaieman. I have no objection to your putting into the record any contract that you have with the full bloods, if you have it? Mr. Ballingee. I have a contract with the general council, under a resolution offered. 38 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL, 1920. The Chairman (addressing James I. Coffey). Are you a full blood? Mr. CoFFET. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Does Mr. Ballinger represent you? Mr. CorrET. No, sir. The Chairman (addressing Edward M. Wilson). Are you a full blood ? Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Does Mr. Ballinger represent you? Mr. Wilson. No, sir. The Chairman (addressing Benjamin Caswell). Does Mr. Bal- linger represent you? Mr. Caswell. No, sir. The Chairman (addressing Frank Smith) Are you all full bloods ? Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Does Mr. Ballinger represent you? Mr. Smith. No, sir. The Chairman (addressing Charles A. Wakefield). Does Mr. Bal- linger represent you? Mr. Wakefield. No, sir. The Chairman (addressing Sam Tonce). Does Mr. Ballinger rep- resent you? Mr. Tonce. No, sir. The Chairman. What have you to say down the line there? Mr. Peter Graves. No, sir. Mr. CoFFET. Mr. Ballinger has made a misstatement. The Chairsian. It would seem that he does not represent the full bloods. . Mr. EoGERS. This man [indicating] is not a full blood. This man [indicating] is not a full blood. The Chairman. What blood is he? Mr. EoGERS. He is a half blood. Under the law any person who has any blood but Indian is a mixed-blood Indian. • Mr. Ballinger. May I be heard for a few minutes, Mr. Chairman? The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee? Senator Curtis. I think the committee ought to hear Mr. Ballin- ger for five minutes, if he wants to be heard. As a matter of fact, I think we are able to settle this whole question ourselves. If I had any determining voice about it, I would close the hearings and ask these people to retire. The Chairman. You can just enter a general denial against any wrong doing on your part. Mr. Rogers. I want to enter a general denial that I am a robber. Mr. Meritt. I did not have you in mind when I made that state- ment. The Chairman. I think we had better proceed with the bill. Mr. Ballingerj you can put anything you wish to say in writing. Bring it to the committee in writing, and you can put it in at the next hearing. We will pass this item for the present. Are there any further Minnesota items? Mr. Meritt. That is all. indian ai'propriation bill, 1920. 39 Kansas. The Chairman. We wjU now take up Kansas. Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, the Kickapoo Indian School, wh;ich accommodated 80 children, was left out of the bill on the recommendation of one of the Members of the House, from Kansas, upon his statement that it was not needed but when he was examined about the matter it developed that he had gone to the Pottawotomie Reservation and had never been within 25 miles of the Kickapoo Reservation. The item is regularly estimated for. There are 80 children there, as I have stated, and they have a schoolhouse and employees, and I move to restore the item that was recommended by the depai'tment. The Chairman. I call attention to page 25 of the bill, in the right hand column, where it says: For support and education of eighty Indian pupils at the Indian School, Kickapoo Reservation, Kansas, including pay of superintendent, $17,400; for general repairs and improvements, $4,000 ; in all $21,400. Is there anv objection to agreeing to the item as it was last year, $23,400^ (Without objection, the item was agreed to at $23,400.) SCHOOL AT HASKELL, KANS. Senator Curtis. Xow, Mr. Chairman, I Avant to ask Mr. Meritt about the item in regard to Haskell. I had a wire from Carlisle that they would have an increase there of 800, and they thought that al- lowance ought to be increased. Have you any information on the subject that will assist us? Mr. Meritt. Haskell had its full capacity, but we would not ask for an increased appropriation for Haskell, because we have some requests from other schools, and we will be satisfied with our esti- mate for that school. Senator Curtis. All right. I would not ask anything for Kansas that is not recommended by the department. Now, I would like to call the commissioners' attention to the other items. A few years ago Congress appropriated $10,000 to build a fence around the ceme- tery there. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Cuetis. I have letters from business men there stating that the wall, I think on the west side, is crumbling and needs re- pairing. Is this $1,000 intended for that purpose? Mr. Meritt. We repaired the cemetery Senator Curtis. Not all of it ; you repaired two sides of it. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; and we entered into a contract with the city that they would keep up the cemetery on the paying of $1,000. Senator Curtis. All around? Mr. Meritt. That is my understanding. Senator Curtis. I had a I'ctter two or three weeks ago which stated that one part of it was in bad repair. All I wanted to know was if the $1,000 would keep it in gcod shape? 40 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Mekitt. That is my understanding, that they are hereafter to take care of the cemetery for the $1,000. (The item was agreed to.) OKLAHOMA. Mr. Meeitt. The first item is as follows : SUPPORT AND CIVILIZATION OF WICHITAS. For support and civiliziition of the Wichitas and affiliated bands who have been collected on the reservations set apart for their use and occupation in •Oklahoma, including pay of employees, $5,000. We are satisfied with that amount. (The item. was agreed to.) Mr. Meeitt. The next item is as follows : AGENCY JIXPENSES KIOWA AND COMANCHE. / The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the Treasury of the United States, at his discretion, the sum of .$25,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the funds on deposit to the credit of the Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache Tribes of Indians in Oklahoma, for the support of the agency and pay of employees maintained for their benefit. That appropriation has been made for a number of years. (The item was agreed to.) KIOWA, COMANCHE, AND APACHE MAINTENANCE AND SIJPPOET. Mr. Meeitt. The next item is as follows : That the Secretary of the Interior be, and' he is hereby, authorized to wifh- years does not otherwise specify, then, instead of the minerals going to the tribe they will go to the individual owners. It is a question here as to whether we want to let the individual owners of the land get the minerals, or whether we want the tribe to have the benefit of it. It being a matter of discretion in Congress, it seems to me there ought to be no question as to how that discretion should be exercised. These people who have bought in the meantime have absolutely no right to it, because it says no authority is given to sell any of the minerals. Mr. Meritt. It is not my opinion that the white purchasers con- tend that they have any legal rights to the minerals- until after the expiration of" the 25 years, and their idea is to oppose any legisla- tion by Congress on this subject, so that they will acquire the legal right tOi these minerals. Senator McNary. They were here last year, as I, remember. Senator Fernald. It is not necessary to act now on that ; we have 12 years more. Senator Jones of New Mexico. We have 12 years rtiore ; yes. Senator McNary. Mr. Meritt makes a point on that. STATEMENT OF PAUL M. HUMPHEEY. Mr. Humphrey. I want to say that I telephoned to the clerk of the committee this morning and "he told me there would be no hear- ino-s this afternoon. I want to add to this item that the Osage Tribal Council are in favor of it, and the committee of the council who are here with me on other matters respecting this bill are in favor of this item to extend the trust period. The council would have been here except I told them upon the advice of the clerk that there would be no hearing this afternoon. I feel that it is due to the council and to the committee to make that statement.. , , , , Senator Fernald. It seems to me we ought not to make haste and that we should give these people an opportunity to be heard, as we <\r, these other people. 52 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Jones of New Mexico. As to why we should act on the matter now, I think Mr. Meritt suggested a reason for that. The reason is that these leases for oil purposes being made now for a period of years and until the oil and gas is exhausted, and they may not be able to exhaust the supply between now and 1932, the date of the expiration of the first 25-year period, and therefore, if we were to now extend it for this additional period there would be every pre- sumption that they could get it all out during that period, and there- fore the person who bought the lease would get full value and would bid more for the lease. Senator Gkonna. I wanted to ask Mr. Meritt this question : Was this matter presented to the House committee, and why was it not incorporated in the bill in the House ? Mr. Meritt. I presented the matter to the House committee and this item was included in our estimates, and approved by the Secre- tary of the Interior. There is considerable discussion of this item in this House committee hearing, beginning with page 261. The Chairman. No; Mr. Meritt, Senator Gronna's question was plain. He asked whether the matter was considered by the House and what the result of that consideration was. Mr. Mekitt. I am attempting to answer that. I am going to state the objection of the Members of the House as brought out in the hearings. Senator Gronna. If it is in the record, I will try and read the record. The reason I asked that question was this : There is no mem- ber on the committee now, since Senator Owen is not present, from Oklahoma, and I know that the Senators from Oklahoma are very much interested in all of this legislation. That was my only purpose in asking that. The Chairman. I was desirous that you should get a direct an- swer to your question. Senator Gronna. Senator Jones, would there be any objection to leaving this until Monday and give Senator Gore an opportunity to be heard on it? I do not know whether he especially wants to be heard, but as it is a matter which concerns the Oklahoma .people, he might so desire. The Chairman. Unless a contrary opinion is expressed, the item will go over for the present, and the secretary will notify Senator Gore that on Monday, at the conclusion of the consideration of the special order for that day — the Crow matter — this item will be taken up for consideration. In view of the statement made by the gentleman concerning the information he had received from the clerk, I feel, in justice to the clerk, it ought to be stated that the Osage item was called up to-day, as the Chair understands it, simply because some Osage Indians hap- pened to be here. Senator Curtis. That is true; I do not know whether you were here or not, but Mr. Meritt said some of your people were going away this afternoon and he would like at least to have one of them here. Mr. Humphret. But the council is here and they have some other matters, and I would like to request that these other matters also be heard on Monday morning. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 53 The Chairjiax. This other matter takes precedence, and from past experience I should say Mr. HxrMPHEEY. The Crow matter does? The Chairman. It will probably occupy the morning session at least. "We will hear you at 12 o'clock on Monday. FIVE CT^•ILIZED TRIBES. Mr. Meritt. Tlie next item begins in line 18, of section 18, and reads as follows: FIVE Civil. IZKl) TIUIBCS. Sec. 18. For expense^i of iidministratioii of the affiurs of the Five Civilized Tribes, Oklahoma, mid the compensation of employees, .$185,000: Prorided, That a report shall be made to Cousress b.v the Superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes through the Secretary of the Interior, showing in detail the expenditure of all moneys appropriated "by this provision : Prorided further, . That hereafter no part of said appropriation shall be used in forwarding the undisputed claims to be paid from individual moneys of restricted allottees, or their heirs, or in forwiarding unc(^ntested agricultural and mineral leases ,made by individual restricted Indian allottees, or their heirs, to the Secretary of the Interior for approval, but all such undisputed claims or uncontested leases now required to be approved under existing law by the Secretary of the Interior shall be paid, approved, re.1eeted, or disapproved by the Sui)er- intendent for the Five Civilized Tribes of Oklahoma: Provided, hoiccver. That any party aggrieved by any decision or order of the Superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes of Oklahoma may appeal from the same to the Secretary of the Interior within thirty days from the date of said decision or order. The House omitted some very important language from this item. We are asking for its insertion. Senator Ctjrtis. May I ask a question here ? This is another con- tested item. Would wp not save time by passing that and having Senator Gore, or whoever is interested in it, representing Mr. Hast- ing.s, who secured this amendment here? I think we should hear it all at one time. I move that we pass it. (The motion was agreed to.) PEE CAPITA PAYMENTS. Mr. Meeitt. The next item provides for per capita payments to the Choctaws and Chickasaws of $150 each. There is no contest in re- gard to this item. (The item was agreed to.) SALARIES AND EXPENSES OF PEOBATE 'AT't'ORNBYS. Mr. Meritt. The next item is for salaries and expenses of probate attorneys in the Five Civilized Tribes. It is for $85,000, which is the same amount as heretofore. There are no contests regarding this item. Senator Cttrtis. Can you tell how many probate attorneys you have down there?- Mr. Meritt. We have about 18 probate attorneys. (The item was agreed to.) 54 INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL, 1920. SUPPORT OF THE CHEROKEE ORPHAN TRAINING SCHOOL. Mr. Meritt. The next item is for the support of the Cherokee Orphan Training School, a total of $43,000. That is the amount of our estimates, and we are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. Senator Nugent. Is there any contest with respect to that item? Mr. Meritt. None whatever. Senator Fernald. I am not an attorney, Mr. Chairman, but it does seem to me carrying on that appropriation from year to year— $85,000 — is a very large amount for that service. Mr. Meritt. There are 100,000 people enrolled in the Five Civ- ilized Tribes. More than 25,000 of these Indians are fullbloods. This appropriation enables us to protect the [property of the full- bloods and the minor Indians of the Five Civilized Tribes. Senator Fernald. Do these men give all of their services to this particular work? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; and our reports show that they have saved the minors a very large amount of money in checking up the accounts of the various guardians. It has proven a very beneficial work; the probate attorneys are cooperating with the local courts, and the local courts are very glad to have this cooperation. Senator Curtis. I ought to add, I think, gentlemen, that when this section was put in the bill there were a great many scandals in Oklahoma, and it was my painful duty to expose a lot of it on the floor of the House, and we had to change the old policy, and there is no question but what the change has saved these Indians millions of dollars of money. All kinds of leases were secured from the Indians and from the minors, and there was no end of litigation, and this change was brought about and the provision for these attorneys to look after the a^airs was made necessary because of the great num- ber of frauds being perpetrated in the Indian territory, and in that part of Oklahoma. Senator Fernald. Senator Gronna and I are the only men on this committee who are not attorneys, and you ought to know better than we do. Senator Jones of New Mexico. The thing that keeps running through my mind is this : There are only 25,000 full bloods, and I do not know how many estates there are to look after. Senator Curtis. There are 25,000 estates. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Are there many estates ? Senator Curtis. Yes. Senator Jones of New Mexico. That will be 1,000 estates for each one of them? ■ Senator Curtis. This goes back to the time when the legislation first started, when it applied to Indians who died, and the final rolls were not closed until 1902, is my recollection. Mr. Meritt. 1906. Senator Cuptis. Yes; 1902 was the enrollment of adults, and then they were opened up again for the enrollment of new born, until 1906, and all of these full bloods and minors and adults, and all who died left estates which must be looked after and settled up. The Chairman. This seems to be a straight out appropriation from the Treasury, without any reimbursement feature to it. If an Indian [NDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 55 leaves an estate of $100,000, we pay for administering the estate. I had a communication the other day suggesting that the United States should pay the expenses of administering on the estates of soldiers who died in the war. That commended itself to me, but I do not like to pay for the cost of administering on the estate, for instance, of $100,000. If a man leaves an estate of $100,000 I should think the estate ought to take care of the administration. I thought a limit of $5,000 should be put upon it. That would be a very commendable act. Some of these Indians are very, very wealthy people, and I can not just see how the Govei'nment of the United States should pay for administering on these estates. Senator Nugent. I quite agree with the chairman. Senator Feenald. It seem to me as though it would be altogether unnecessary. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Does this include the Osage In- diaris, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; it applies to the Five Civilized Tribes, and this money is used for the protection of these Indians very largely without funds. Of course, where there is a large estate, the estate pays the regular attorney to look after that estate. It would be a difficult matter to make this appropriation reimbursable, because I believe there are 20 instead of 18 probate attorneys who are devoting all of their time to this work, and there are thousands of these vari- ous estates ranging from $250 up. The Chairman. It would be a very simple matter, would it not, to provide, in case of estates having a value greater than $500, the courts make an allowance out of the funds in the Treasury of the United States to reimburse it on account of this expenditure made? Take an estate of $100,000, say, the court should make an allowance out of the estate, which should be paid into the Treasury of the United States for the purpose of making up pro tanto the expendi- ture of $85,000. I do not quite see why, in the case of Indians amply able to pay for the administration of their own estates, that the Government of the United States should bear the burden. Of course it is, in the case of these very rich estates, that the fraud is likely to be perpetrated; and even though an Indian is the heir of a very rich estate, it is quite proper that the Government should look after the distribution of that estate; the larger it is the more important it is, and the Government should see that it goes into the right hands; but when it does that, the taxpayers of the United States ought to be reimbursed out of that estate for the expenditure of that money. Senator Gronna. I think there is great force in that statement, and I, for one, would like to see that done. There are reservations where the Indians are very poor and very much in need of funds, and those Indians, as I understand it, the Osages, are wealthy, nearly all of them. Mr. Meritt. Some of them are wealthy, but there are those who are exceedingly poor! We would have ho objection to Indians who possess an adequate estate paying the probate expenses out of that estate. Senator Gronna. Senatoi' Walsh stated $500. The Chairman. $500; that the court should make an allowance out of the estate to be equal to what the attorney's fees should be. 66 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Curtis. I think that is a little low, Senator Walsh. What do you think about $1,000? ' The Chairman. Well, you know, $500— an ordinary estate of $500— a lawyer would administer on that, and he would probably do the work for $25 or $50. Now, take that much out of the estate and turn it over to the Treasury of the United States. Senator Curtis. You would leave the amount to be deducted to the discretion of the court ? The CHAiRaiAN. Yes; I would put it that way, indicating to him that the amount would be about such an amount as would be paid - out of the estate if a private attorney were employed. That is giving < him some guide by which to go. Senator Jones. In other words, you mean a reasonable fee? The Chairman. Yes; perhaps that would be sufficient, if we should say a reasonable fee. Senator Curtis. I think I ought to say, in justice to myself, when these matters first came up, you will notice all through there — and I intended to call the attention of Senator Nugent and the other Sen- ators to it when we reached the Minnesota items — when these items were first put in the bill years "ago I tried to get the expense cut down. I mean certain expenses that the Go^^ernment, I did hot think, was bound to pay. I tried to get them paid out of the estate and out of the eiffects, but I was unsuccessful. Senator Nugent. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that we pass this matter and request Mr. Meritt to prepare an amendment, as the chairman suggested. I will make that as a motion. Senator Curtis. I will second that motion. (The motion was agreed to.) Mr. Meritt. May I suggest that the amount be $1,000 instead of $500, because that is a small estate, and the Indian having only $500 has very little money to pay this expense. Senator Nugent. Personally, I see no objection to that. I nat- urally assume that provision toi the effect that the attorney shall receive fair compensation, and that fair compensation shall be cov- ered into the Treasury The Chairman. I do not think it ought to be higher than $500^ but that is a personal view. Senator Jones. Leave the amount blank and we will agree on it. maintenance of CHEROKEE TRAINING SCHOOL NEAR TALLKQUAH. OKLA. Mr. Meritt. The next item is an uncontested one and is an appro- priation for the support of the Cherokee Orphan Training School for Oklahoma. We ask an appropriation of $43,000 for that school. The justification for this item is found on page 271 of the House hearings. We are taking care of the orphan Indian children of the Cherokee Nation at this school, Avho have no other place to go. We are educating them at that school, and it has proven to be very bene- ficial work. The Indians are very much in favor of it, and we would like to have the amount authorized by the House. Senator Fernald. I move that it be agreed to. (The motion was agreed to.) INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 57 ■COMMON SCHOOLS IN THE CHEIJOKEE, CREEK, CHOCTAW, CHICKASAW, AND SEMINOLE NATIONS AND THE QUAPAW AGENCY IN 0KLAII05IA. Mr. Mekitt. The next item reads as follows : The smn of .$225,000, to be expeijded lu the cliscvetion of the Secretary of the Interior, under rules and regulations to be prescribed by bim, in aid of the common schools in the Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw, and Seminole Nations and tlie Quiu)a\\- Agency in Oklahoma, during the fiscal year ending- June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and twenty : Provided, That this appropriation shall not be subject to tlie limitation iu section 1 of this act limiting the expenditure -ot nionej- to educate children of less than one-fourth Indian blood. Sfenator Cuetis. Didn't we have an agreement a year or two ago that that should be reduced each year? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. We had an understanding that it should be . reduced $25,000, and you will note that there is an error in the column appropriated in 1919. The amount appropriated last year was $250,000, and we reduced our estimate accordingly. This ap- propriation is for the purpose of paying the tuition of Indian chil- dren in the public schools of the Five Civilized Tribes. We have about 40 counties in eastern Oklahoma among the Five Civilized Tribes, and we provide for between 25,000 and 30,000 Indian chil- dren out of this aippropriation, for their education. I will give you the exact figures 'on that. Senator McNaet. The item has been reduced according to the agreement, $25,000? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; it was reduced $25,000 over the amount ap- propriated ISist year. Senator McNaey. I move that the item be approved. (the item was agreed to.) Mr. Meeitt. We are educating about 20,000 Indian children out of that appropriation. The Chaihman. Is any portion of the cost of running these schools borne by the Indians? M^r. Meeitt. No, sir. The Chairman. These are the schools in the Five Civilized Tribes ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; the theory on which this appropriation is based is this : In the Five Civilized Tribes in eastern Oklahoma, cov- ering about 40 counties, the Indians hold a very large acreage of land that is not taxable, and it is almost impossible for the school •districts to raise sufficient money because of the fact that so much land is nontaxable, with which to conduct the schools in those coun- ties. It seems a very reasonable request and we are educating these children at a much less cost per capita than at our Indian schools. The Chajeman. Take the Osage Indians who get these enor- mous Senator Cuetis. They are not in this. The Chairman (continuing). This enormous revenue out of oil leases, is provision made for the education of their children? Mr Meeitt. We have a boarding school at the Osage Agency, and we also educate a number of the Osage Indian children in the mis- sion school. . Senator Curtis. Do they pay their own way '. 58 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. :\Ieeitt. a large number of these children attend public school and the Government does not pay one cent out of the Treasury ot the United States for the education of the Osage children. Senator Curtis. Let me state this about that: I do not like to re- hash it every time. When we divided up eastern Oklahoma we gave to the State $5,000,000 cash in lieu of lands, and the Oklahoma people, when they became a State claimed that we had not given them as much as they would have had ordinarily, and they asked us to take charge of this schooling of these children for a number of years, Avhich we did ; but this has been going on so many years that I sug- gested last year that I thought it was about time to cut it off and there was some agreement reached, I think in conference; I won't be sure; maybe it was an open meeting, that they would reduce it so much a year, and so eventually get rid of this big gratuity. Mr. Mbritt. In submitting our estimates next j^ear Ave will reduce this item $25,000 in accordance with that understanding. Senator Nugent. This is in accordance with the agreement entered into between certain Senators and Congressmen and the people of Oklahoma ? Senator Curtis. No; it was a forced compromise. They really had the votes, and they put this in several years ago, but it was un- derstood when it was put in that it would only be asked for until such time as Oklahoma could he straightened out, but it has been in there year after year. Senator Nugent. Do you consider that Congress is bound in any way? Senator Curtis. I could not say, but I wanted the facts brought out and have the records show what was done back there years ago. Senator Nugent. I am in entire accord with Senator Walsh with respect to that matter. I fail to see any particular valid reason why under the existing conditions the United States should pay for the education of these children there. ■ Senator Jones of New Mexico. It is because the lands are tied up and not subject to taxation. Senator Nugent. What is the financial condition of these Five Civilized Tribes irrespective of these lands the Senator refers to ? Mr. Meritt. The Indians of the Five Civilized Tribes are in fairly good circumstances as a whole, but a large number of the Indians have had their restrictions removed, and they have passed from land- lords to tenants. Senator Nugent. Is there any particularly large sum of money now on hand at their disposal, to their credit in the Treasury ? Mr. Meritt. They have considerable money to their credit, but we are authorized a per capita payment of $150 to the Choctaws and Chickasaws in this bill, and that will take part of their tribal funds. Senator Jones of New Mexico. What would be the amount of that payment in total, about? Mr. Meritt. About $4,000,000. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Why not pay this out of that ? Mr. Meritt. That only ai^plies to the Choctaws and Chickasaws. The Cherokees, Creeks, and Seminoles will also receive the benefit of this appropriation. Senator Jones of New jNIexico. Have they any tribal funds? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 59 Mr. Meritt. The Cherokees have no tribal funds ; the Creeks have some funds, but that money is being used to equalize allotments, and the Seminoles have very little money to their credit. It would be almost impossible, Senator, to appropriate this money out of the tribal funds, because some of the nations have no funds and other nations have too little, and we are under treaty obligations with the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, to pa^- out their funds, and we are attempting to do that in this act. Senator Nugent. I voted for this appropriation last year, and I will vote for it this year under the existing conditions," but I feel very strongly disinclined to do it any further. I am not going to vote for it next year, and I suggest that in the interim Mr. Meritt endeavor to devise some scheme of legislation by which a change can be made. Mr. Meritt. We would like to have the language changed in that item to make it conform with the law. Line 10, we would like to have changed as follows: In section 1, instead of the word "this," insert the word " the," and, after the word " act," insert " of May 25, 1918." That would make it conform to the date of the legislation in question. The Chairman. Mr. Meritt, you have changed the limit in this act, have you not? Senator Curtis. No; they are excluding that act of May, 1918, from applying to this school. The Chairman. But we have amended that act by changing the amount here? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; this is another provision we have referred to, which reads as follows : Provided further, That hereafter no apiiropriation, except appropriations made pursuant to treaties, shall be used to educate children of less than one- fourth Indian blood whose parents are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they live and where there are adequate free school facilities provided. You will note that was made permanent legislation in the last In- dian appropriation act and that is not carried in this act. (The amendment was agreed to.) Mr. Meritt. The next item, the House omitted from the first part of the item in the following language. That the Secretar.v of the Interior, and he is hereby, authorizeers of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations shall not be held in abeyance to this claim, but shall be paid promptly without reference thereto. Senator Cuetis. I thought we got rid of that — the Blair and other claims — last year. This is three times that has occurred. Mr. Meeitt. This ^vas offered two or three days ago by Attorney Kappler. We looked up the matter and we find no objection to the item. (The amendment was agreed to.) Senator Cuetis. I want to reserve the right to make a point of order on that if I feel like doing it. I think we ought to stop this payment of claims on Indian appropriation bills, especially when the attorneys come in here at the last minute. For the last three years we have had something of this kind presented by these same attorneys. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 63 .T^6 Chaibjcax. Senator Myers is here, and he has something he wishes to say to the committee. We will be glad to hear Senator Myers now. Senator Myers. Gentlemen of the committee, I thank you for this opportunity. I want to speak a few words about the Flathead rec- lamation project. Senator Walsh was not here when that came up, being detained in California on account of his health. I gave the matter attention all the way through last winter, and I will briefly recount what occurred. Prior to 1916. as you know, we had not obtained anything but yery meager appropriations for that project, and it dragged along inter- minably, and the overhead charges were yery gxeat in comparison to the amount appropriated and the progress riiade. In 1916, however, the Secretary of the Interior and the Indian Commissioner Senator McN.art. Is that item of $375,000 on page 30, line 9? Senator Myers. Yes, sir. In 1916 the Secretary of the Interior and the Indian Commissioner took a new view of the matter and evidently concluded that if that project was going to be completed at all it should be rushed along to speedier completion and gotten through with as soon as possible,, and that year they made an esti-. mate of $750,000, which was at least, if not more than, double any appropriation that had ever been made before in any one year. The amount was appropriated that year. In 1917 a like amount, $750,000, was appropriated, and during those two years the work progressed very rapidly. In the fall of 1917 the estimate was again $750,000, and it passed' the House at'$750,000, but when it came over here the war was in progress, in the fall of 1917, and, of course, when it came hefore this committee a majority of the committee took the view that the war being on and the Government being required to appropriate billions of dollars for the prosecution of the war, and taxes being very high, and the issuing of war bonds, etc., they took the A'iew that on account of the fact that the war expenses were very heavy and labor was very scarce they should not appropriate $750,000 that year, as they had done in the House. So, on that account, this committee cut the appropriation down a year ago to $250,000. I had several conferences with you ; I appeared before you a number of times and we argued it over extensively, and some of the gentlemen in the committee room favored a reduction and urged the reduction very strongly on account of the war and the scarcity of labor and the high cost of labor and of materials, and some of thern who took that stand indicated very strongly at that time that when the war was over then they would favor higher appropriation and the rushing of the project along tp completion. So, you cut it down to $260,000, and it passed the Senate at that figure. Mr. Davis, Chief of the Reclamation Service, appeared before the conference and urged very strongly that that figure be raised to $350,000, and stated that we couldn't get along with less than that amount, and the conference put it at $350,000. They got that amount. Of course, you know the estimates are made up in the fall of each year, so this last fall, in October, I went to see Mr. Sells and Secretary Lane about the estimates for this coming year. That was along about the 1st of October, or early in October, but the war was still on at that time and it looked to "everybody like it would last for several years — I do 64 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920. not think that anybody considered at that time that the war would end in less than a year— so I talked it over considerably with Mr- Sells and Secretary Lane, and they both expressed great interest m the project, but they said on account of the war being on they did not think the estimate should be more than $375,000, the amount allowed last year ; they said that as long as the war was on they thought that was enough for each year. AVe were still appropriating billions and billions of dollars for war purposes and issuing bonds, and taxes were very high, and they thought that was all that was justifiable while the war was on. So they made the estimate of $375,000. The estimate was made, O. K'd , the 15th of October, and in less than 30 days after that time we sud- denly signed an armistice and the war came to an end, and, of course, the estimate had been made and gone in, so it stands as an estimate of $375,000. It went to the House in that shape and the House passed the bill with that amount in it. There appears to have been no effort to raise it there. I went to see Secretary Lane the other day^ — of coui'se, the war is over now, at least, hostilities are over and we all expect the war to he over — I went to see Secretary Lane a few days ago and talked tO' him about the matter, the war being over now, and asked him if there should not be a larger estimate made and a larger appropria- tion and resume the peace-time appropriation that had been made for two 3'ears before we entered the war, of $750,000 each year. Well,, he admitted that conditions had changed and seemed to think a larger stimate probaly would be justifiable, but, of course, you can not exceed the estimate very well, but if you should see fit in your judgment to raise this above $375,000 you would have to have some- thing on which to estimate it. So Secretary Lane did not say ex- actly what he would do, but he said if the committee would authorize its chairman to write him a letter and ask. if he had any further views to express about this appropriation this year, that he would think it over and give it careful consideration and write a letter to the committee stating what he had finally concluded his views to be. So that is the way the matter stands. I realize that an estimate of only $375,000 having been made, you can not be expected to raise that, and I want to say that I went to see Secretary Lane about a supplemental estimate and the possibility of raising it, and, as I say, he did not say exactly what he would do,, but he said he would think it over and he said if you would authorize the chairman to write him a letter he would indicate to you any fur- ther views he might have on the subject. Senator McNaey. You remember that last year very strong oppo- sition was urged against this. Senator Myers. Oh, not only last year; but every year. I have been here for eight years. Senator McNaey. I am speaking of my own experience. Senator Myers. Yes, sir. Senator McNary. Does that same condition exist ? Senator Myers. Of course, there are elements of dissatisfied In- dians, but there are lots of Indians who are satisfied with it. It is just like a bill before Congress, if anybody wants a change made the people who want it are here urging it to be done, but the great mass INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 65 of the people are not here. It is that way out there. I think the great mass of the Indians out there are satisfied and they have not sent anybody here. There is a dissatisfied element, though. Senator McNakt. They are not here this year ? Senator Myers. Not that I know of, and I have not heard of their coming. The Chairmax. I think that is easily explainable, Senator. We had the same thing in connection with all of the other Indian proj- ects, and we Avere embarrassed with respect to the general irriga- tion projects. There were several delegations who came down here and protested against continuing the Sun Eiver project. That is one of the general projects and not an Indian project. They said " We do not need it ; we raise crops abundantly without irrigation, and it is an awful burden on us." You recall there was a delega- tion here with regard to Fort Peck, but throughout that entire country — that is, the northern part of the State — there was an ex- treme drought in 1917 and a worse drought in 1918. They did not have the drought on the flat end in 1917, but they did have it in 1918, last year. Now all of those of us who have lived in Montana for yeai's know that these periods of extreme drought come and they are bound to come and that an irrigation project is an insurance against conditions of that kind, so that a great change has come over the views of those people. To-day they are nearly all in favor of irrigation projects and I suppose probably that these objectors from the flats are not here because their view has changed by reason of the conditions that have happened on the reservations during the past year. Senator McNart. There were tAvo young ladies from the reserva- tion here last year; I think they were educated somewhere on the M'estern slope, and they were opposing this irrigation scheme. Senator Mters. For two years the nonirrigated lands have not grown anything; they have had an awful drought. For two years the nonirrigated lands I do not believe have averaged 1 bushel of wheat to the acre. I do not know whether there is any opposition this year from the Indians or not ; I have not heard of any. Senator Ntigent. If I remember. Senator Myers, last year there was a statement made with respect to one of these reservations, that there were places where it would be necessary to construct canals at heavy expense for a distance of 2 miles in order to water a 40 or 80 acre tract of land. In other words, that there were some places where on one of these reservations — I have forgotten which one it was — where these farmers, certain of them, lived at a distance of 2 miles from each other. Senator Mtees. That is not the case in the Flathead, because it is very closely populated there. That is not the Flathead. Senator Nttgent. I wondered if that condition still existed. Senator Fernald. I am not very much familiar with this project, Senator. Do you think, financially, we are much better off this year than we were last year, even if hostilities have ceased ? Senator Myers. I want to lead up to that. I want to state a point which I omitted in 1916 : When they made the big appropriation of $750 000 in 1916, the committee recommended, and Congress enacted certain fundamental changes in the law relating to the Flathead 106080—19 5 66 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL, 1920. project which were entirely satisfactory to the Indian Bureau and the Interior Department. The Indian Bureau prior to that time had felt that the law was not in such shape as to be advantageous to the Indians, and that was one obstacle. In that year I urged and the committee made a further change that the Indian Commissioner re- quested, in regard to the law of the project, and the law was put in in just exactly the shape that the Indian Bureau wanted it, and it was entirelj' satisfactory. All I want to ask is this : I have just one request to make, and that is that by resolution you instruct your chairman or acting chairman to write a letter to Secretary Lane and ask him if he has anythingi further to communicate on this subject and if so to make it known to the committee. If Secretary Lane comes back and says, after think- ing it over, he thinks $375,000 is enough, I will accept his judgment and have nothing further to say ; if he recommends more, then you will not be bound by it ; then that is for you to consider, whether you will give more or not. Senator McNaey. The Government has appropriated out of its reimbursement fund the sum of $t50,000. Senator Curtis. Out of the Flathead, $3,103,()00. Senator Myers. Yes; there has been over $3,000,000 expended on the project, but it is more than half completed. Senator McNaey. Has there been an estimate made of the total cost? Senator Myers. $6,000,000, and about $3,250,000 has been ex- pended; there are $2,250,000 yet to be expended. Senator McNaey. How many acres of land are made susceptible of cultivation and improved ; how much will it be after the comple- tion of the project? Senator Myers. It is to cover about 100,000 acres. Senator Ctjrtis. One hundred and thirty-four thousand acres. Senator Myers. Yes; I was thinking of the Indian land. About 140,000 acres in round numbers. That is all I ask; that is my one object in coming here. I simply ask the committee to authorize its chairman to write a letter to the Secretary of the Interior asking him if he has anything further to communicate, and if he does, and it is adverse, I take my medicinei and quit ; if it is favorable, I ask the Senators to consider it. Senator Curtis. I started the fight on these irrigation projects in Montana three years ago because of the showing that }vas made, and I am still very greatly displeased with the showing that has been made by the office, and I think, to show my good faith, when the department came up and made a showing that Qiey had made a lease for some 20,000' acres on the Crow I at once agreed to increase the appropriation of $200,000 — wasn't it? Mr.' Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. I did that to show my good faith. If these prop- erties can be leased and this land under the ditch can be made pro- ductive and bring these Indians sometj^ing I am perfectly willing to go on. But here is the showing on the Flathead. They have got 83,300 acres under the works and yet they are only irrigating 25,000; acres. Senator Myers. Is that the last report ? Senator Curtis. That is the last report. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 67 Senator Myers. Is that for the year 1918? Senator Curtis. This is the last rebort I have: I suppose it is for 1918. Senator Nugent. Do you mean Indians only ? Senator Curtis. That is, Indians and whites, all told. I would like to see something done. I want to say I have made up my mind that I am not going to make any fight on this this year, hoping that the office would do something like it did on the Crow and go ahead and lease the land under the project. I might state right here that there were some 27,000 acres under the Crow project that we had reason to believe were ready for lease, and yet when they made this lease to the sugar people we had to put up $200,000 more to get it ready for lease. I do not think we are justified, when there are 84,000 acres under the project and only 25,000 all told being irrigated and farmed, in developing and putting more into the project until something is done to get tliat 84.000 acres developed. I have been fighting these appropriations for two or three years, as both the Senators know; I have been sincere in my objection because of the small number of acres developed. On one of these reservations it was shown we had spent over a million dollars, and the Indians went there to cultivate the 900 acres of land, and there wasn't an acre hardly of their land leased to anybody else. I asked the acting commissioner why it wasn't leased, and they gave several reasons for it. And on another one, 1.800 acres, where thousands of dollars had been expended. I am perfectly willing to vote for these estimates put in here with the imderstanding that the commissioner or acting or assistant com- missioner should try to get these lands under the works cultivated, and I am opposed to increasing these estimates. Senator Nugent. I understand from your statement that there are eighty-odd thousand acres of land ? Senfitor Curtis. Eighty-four thousand now under the works. Senator Nugext. Do you mean by that- that there is water available ? Senator Cui4tis. That is as I understand it. I do not know any- thing about irrigation, but I do know it is not right for us -now, for instance — this land that is being irrigated has cost us $120 an acre to date. Senator Nugent. Do I understand that there are now eighty-odd thousand acres for which water is now available, a!nd that out of those eighty-odd thousand acres there were 25,000 acres in culti- vation ? Senator Myers. That seems to be the report. Senator Curtis, I appreciate your attitude, and I have always appreciated your sin- cerity. Senator Curtis. I worked with you when you first tried to get this appropriation. I would like to see this done if the department will lease it. But what is the use of giving this money if the In- dian Office is going to let the irrigated land or the land under ditch go to nothing and simply rajse grass? Senator Myers. I appreciate your attitude about letting the es- timated $375,000 go through; but would you not be willing to have the chairman write the letter to Secretary Lane simply asking him if he has anything further to indicate ? 68 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Cuktis. I have no objection ; but it would not change my mind; I do not vrant to sit silent here. Senator Myers. Then, if he says " No, $375,000 is enough," I am willing. If he says it ought to be $1,000,000 more, that would not be compelling on you ; you could still debate the matter of whether you would raise it or not, and you could let it stand at $375,000 if you wanted to. Senator McNary. I move that the chairman of the committee- request the opinion from the Secretary of the Interior concerning the advisability or practicability or wisdom of increasing the esti- mated appropriation for the irrigation project in the Flathead Res- ervation, Mont. (The motion was agreed to.) Senator Myers. I thank you, gentlemen. Senator Curtis. Let me call your attention to the fact that I am not going to object to this appropriation. The next is on the Fort Peck. They have 152,000 acres under the project; 16,200 under the works that are susceptible of irrigation; yet there are only 1,800 acres irrigated. It has cost the Government, or the Indians and the Government — and now the Government, because the Government has taken the place of the Indians — $618,000; and it will cost to complete, $4,000,000. Senator Nugent. Why is it that is not under irrigation ^ Senator Curtis. I do not know. Next, they have the Blackfeet; they have 25,000 acres under the works and only 3,000 actually culti- vated. It has cost over $1,000,000; estimated cost to complete, $2,000,000. The Crow, Avhen we started the opposition to this, there were only a few hundred acres irrigated. Last year we gave them, $200,000 more and I am glad to say there is now irrigated some 23,800 acres out of 50,000 acres under the project. There ought to be more, but there is that much. Mr. Meritt. On the Crow Reservation practically every acre of irrigible land will be under cultivation by next year. Senator Curtis. And when you made that sliowing you got your appropriation. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Let me give you what explanation I have, of the conditions. On the Blackfeet, you understand, there are no white settlers at all. That is entirely within the reservation. Senator McNary. Does the Northern Pacific go through that^ Senator? The Chairman. No ; the Great Northern. That is entirely within the reservation. That is an effort to get the Indians to utilize the irrigation system. It was exactly the same on the Crow. The Crow project was built years ago. It was one of the early projects, started in the early 1900's and something like $800,00() was spent upon the irrigation system, and just a few acres were cultivated by the Indians. The leasing system was put in force very recently and they succeeded in leasing to white people who are going tO' engage in beet-sugar culture a considerable acreage of that, so that that will be utilized. That is the experience with all these projects where the Indians are expected to utilize the water they do not utilize it, and I have always felt that was a wasteful expenditure' INDIAK APPaOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 69 as the events showed, although at the time everybody thought the Indians would be glad to make use of the water, but they did not. With reference to the Fort Peck; Fort Peck will illustrate the point I am calling to your attention more particularly. The Fort Peck Reservation is in the northeast part of our State, a short dis- tance from the North Dakota line, and close to the Canadian boundary. They do not know anything at all about irrigation in North Dakota. They started the irrigation project at Williston and the reclamation service abandoned it. Over in Canada that whole country is a region in which crops are raised without any irrigation at all, and in the neighborhood of the Fort Peck Reservation, and clear on west as far as the Black Creek, within the last six years practically every available acre of public land has been taken up by homesteaders, and I have repeatedly called your attention to the fact that .practically one-third of the homestead entries for the last five years have been made in Montana. You can not see any public land on either side any longer from the Great Northern road. They raise crops successfully. You take it in the Mill River 'Valley, and notwithstanding they were able to raise abundant crops on the benches, during the favorable seasons, without irrigation, in the valley of the Mill River they regularly irrigated and raised the very finest kind of timothy and alfalfa hay, an enormous production ; and if the water had been used in the same way on the Fort Peck Indian Reser- vation it would have returned enormously in any year, but the peo- ple there got the idea that they did not need water for irrigation ; that they could raise crops year in and year out without irrigation. The last few years, however, have disabused them of that idea, and from this time on I have no doubt that the water will be very much more generously used. ■ Now, the report that Senator Curtis has is, I suppose, for 1917. ' Senator Curtis. I got this froin the last report. I think it was from 1918. The Chairman. The last I am able to get is 1916-17. Senator Cuetis. I asked for the report from the office. It is over in my office. It was brought up to last December, is my recollection. The Chairman. In any case, you will see it would be only for the year ending June 30, 1918. The Senator could have none for this past year. But I do not imagine that it would be very much of a showing. I have no doubt that from this time on the acreage which will be put under water will be very greatly increased. When I say that, I mean that we had exactly the same condition and the same trouble confronting us in relation to the other projects, not' the In- dian projects but the general reclamation projects, like Sun River. Senator McNaet. You make the point, Mr. Chairman, that the Indians failed to seize their opportunity on account of its being a new device for raising crops. The Chairman. Not the Indians, because I think they do not ordi- narily see these thin^. Senator McNart. Do yoti use it generally? If water is available, will they take advantage of it? The Chairman. No: they will not, and I have repeatedly called the attention of this committee to the fact, and I repeat it now, gen- erallv for the information of you gentlemen on the committee who 70 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. are newer, that vou must not judge of this thing— take the Flathead project and the Fort Peck project, for instance, upon the basis ot the water that the Indians use alone, the question is always ' Isn t this appropriation for the benefit of the white settlers rather than tor the Indians?" The truth about the matter is that the appropriation to the extent of nine-tenths reallv goes to the white settlers and not to the Indians, and it is perfectly proper that it should. You will un- derstand that when these two' reservations were opened, the Indians were first given their opportunity to select their lands., Very wisely they selected the best lands there were on the reservation. In most cases the irrigation projects had been laid out; it had been in-« dicated, and very properly so, to the Indians what lands would be irrigated and what lands would not be iriigated and they were given the opportunity to select their lands, and, of course, they se- lected lands that were going to be irrigated and put under the ditch to a large extent. Then the lands were opened to homestead entry to the white set- tlers, the excess lands, and in the same way a map was put upon the walls and the lands were valued, and the white settlers had an oppor- tunity to go and select their land that they wanted to take -either under the ditch as it was proposed, paying a high price for the land, from $7 to $10 an acre, or he had the opportimity' to go above the ditch and beyond the ditch and take lands that would not be irri- gated by the ditch that were appraised at from $1.50 to $2.50 an acre ; so that many of them Avent and selected their lands under the ditch and have paid their money into the Treasury of the United States for the benefit of the Flathead Indians, and the Government of the United States has got their money now under an implied promise that " If you buy these lands we will complete this ditch, and you will have water for the irrigation of your lands." So that the Government of the United States is under a contract to these white settlers who went there and took up these lands. Nom% there was no promise that the project would be completed within any definite period. Nor did the Government of the United States obligate itself to them to make ap- propriations for any particular amount, but the act contemplated thei irrigation of these lands ; it contemplated that they should be classi- fied; it contemplated that they should be appraised, and that they should be paid for in accordance with the appraisement, and they have been paid for in accordance with the appraisement. Now, you can not leave these white settlers without water for the irrigation of their lands under these circumstances. The Government of the United States is in honor bound, and I think, Senator Curtis, who has given much consideration to this matter, thinks the same way, that they are obligated in honoi". Senator Ctjetis. I stated that on the floor of the Senate. The Chaiejman. You might say, almost, in law you are obligated to make good the promise made to the settlers as an inducement to go and take these lands. You will observe that the Government of the United States never would have undertaken this great project for the irrigation of the Indian lands alone. That was not enough to justify the expenditure necessary and therefore they notified the white set- tlers to come here and take these lands under the ditch so that we could cari'v out this project for the benefit of the Indians. So these IISTDIAN. APPROPRIATION BILL, 1&20. 71 people have gone there, and you will bear in mind this was, according to my recollection, in 1907 the act was passed and the reservation was opened in 1909, which is 10 years ago, and for 10 long years these people have been on those lands waiting the time when they would have some water for irrigation. I hope you will bear in mind also that when a man takes land under the ditch — Senator McNary will understand that perfectly well, and Senator Nugent also — ^he figures out a certain kind of crop, forage crop, and this being a great fruit country, he would plant some trees there and he expects to cultivate alfalfa and he fixes himself so as to be iDrepared to cultivate an- irri- gated farm, while the man who takes land above the ditch, he fixes himself to cultivate an unirrigated farm, by dry framing, and he has got an expenditure that is not suited to the case unless he can get water for the purpose of irrigating the lands. There he is; for 10 long years he has not had water. Now, it is too bad that not so much of it is used, but there is no reason for it on the Flathead Eeservation. There is a multitude of these people who have actually paid their money and gone away, who have absolutely been starved out; they couldn't make good and yet in remote sections there are — you said something about some extra costs that would be incurred. As I say^ it was in connection with this project; to some of them it was represented that the ditch was coming right along here on the map. The rest of the people have gone away and they have paid for the land, and they do not care when the water is coming. So you ought not to allow yourselves, it seems to ttie, in justice to these people, to be overpersuaded by the fact that there is not so much acreage of land which has been em- ployed. We are still under the obligation to extend the system so as to bring the water to those who took up their lands in this way. Senator NtjgejSit. Do you not think. Senator, it would be much cheaper for the Government to buy the improvements and acreages that these people have taken up than to extend this enterprise? After listening to your explanation — I am very clear in my mind that the statement last year was with reference to the Flathead Reserva- tion. As a matter of fact there were a number of instances of re- quiring the expenditure of thousands of dollars on the part of the Government in the construction of canals in some places for 2 miles in order to furnish water for the irrigation of an 80 or 160 acre plot of land, and I was wondering whether or not if that condition prevails to any particular extent, it would not be better for the Government simply to purchase the property that these people have paid for. The Chairman. I should be very much disposed to question the accuracy of that statement. I think whoever made the statement was misinformed. . i • i Senator Jones. My recollection of that statement is that m order to extend the canal it would be necessary to have that heavy con- struction at the beginning of it and it would go on and take in a lot of other land after it was done. Senator CtrETis. I move that we adjourn. The Chairman. The committee will stand adjourned to 10.30 o'clock Monday morning. (Whereupon, at 4.05 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until 10.30 o'clock Tuesday morning, February 11, 1919.) INDIA^T APPKOPRIATIO?^ BILL. TUESDAY, FEBBUAEY 11, 1919. United States Senate, COJIMITTEE ON InDIAN AffAIRS, Washington, D. 0. . The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment, Senator Thomas J. Walsh presiding as chairman. Present : Senators Kendrick, Jones of New Mexico, Gronna, Curtis, Fernald, McXary, and Spencer; also, Mr. Edgar B. Meritt, Assist- ant Commissioner of Indian Affairs. LANDS FOR MISSION SCHOOLS. STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS STERIING, SENATOR FROM SOUTH DAKOTA. Senator Ctjetis. Senator Sterling is present and I understand de- sires to present some matter to the committee. Senator Steeling. Yes; I should like to do so at this time, as I happen to have another meeting to attend. Gentlemen of the committee, the matter to which I wish to call attention is an amendment which would authorize the issue of pat- ents to those lands that have been heretofore set apart for missionary or religious or other educational purposes. A bill passed the Senate on May 16, 1918, known as Senate bill 279, a bill which I had intro- duced, and, as it is very brief, I will read it. It is as follows : That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to issue a patent in fee simple to the duly authorized missionary board, or other proper authority, of any religious organization engaged in mission or school work on any Indian reservation for such lands thereon as have been heretofore set apart to and are now being used and occupied by such organization for mission or school purposes. Passed Senate May 16, 1918. That follows exactly the language of the pre^■ious statute, an act that I think was passed in 1909, authorizing the issuance of patents to lands that had theretofore been set apart for missionary and school purposes. The Secretary of the Interior made a report upon this bill' approv- ing it, and the report is somewhere on file. It was here at one time in the files of this committee. It is in accordance with the policy of the Government with regard to these things to set aside in the first place such lands are are needed for this purpose, and then later to authorize the issuance of patents for them, they still being used for missionary and school purposes. It is that item that I would call 73 74 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. attention to in the first place, with the hope that the committee will see fit to amend the bill in this respect. The bill passed the Senate^ as I say, and Avent to the Honse and because of the condition of the House calendar there is no prospect of its being passed by the House ; so in order that it may become a law at all there should be an amendment to this bill. I do not understand that there is any op- position whatever to the bill in the House, but simply because of the parliamentary situation there it will not get through as an in- dependent measure. Senator Kendeick. Would it be subject to objection as a matter of general legislation? Senator Steeling. I can not say as to that ; it might be. Senator Cuetis. It w^ould be subject to a point of order on the Indian appropriation bill. Senator Steeling. It might be, but I hardly think a point of order would be made against it. I think a word of explanation in regard to it anyhow would satisfy any Senator. I think that a good place for that item in the pending bill would be somewhere in the miscellaneous items beginning on page 14, or at the end of the miscellaneous items and before the appropriations for the Indians in the several States. INDIAN SCHOOL AT FLANDEEAU, S. DAK. Senator Steeling. The other item is an appropriation for the Flandreau Indian School. The appropriation is $8,000. I have a letter here from the superintendent of that school, who, I wish to say, has not been persistent at all in asking for a large appropriation. I regard him as a very safe and conservative man, but because of conditions there and the needs he thinks that the appropriation ought to be increased from $8,000 to $10,000, which would corre- spond to the needs and be consistent with other appropriations pro- vided for in the bill. He points out that the plant of the Flandreau Indian School belongs to that class whose valuation is about $200,000, and, all of our schools having a like valuation of over $200,000 re- ceived an appropriation of $10,000. He gives the list in his letter. Senator Nugent. He w^ants this appropriation because the others have it? Senator Steeling. Not alone, as I said a moment ago. Senator, but because of the needs, and because it comes within that class, and I suppose that is somewhat related to the needs, too. The list is as follows : Genoa Nfl)i-., valuation, $383,305 ; appropriation, .$10,000. Mount Pleasant, Mich., valuation, $226,697; appropriation, $10,000. Flandreau, S. Dak.; valuation, $238,171 ; appropriation, $8,000. Tomali, Wis., valuation, $188,98.5. appropriation, $8,000. Pipestone, Minn., valuation, .$163,040 ; appropriation, $8,000. Haywood, Wis., valuation, $137,828 ; appropriation, $8,0<)0. Rapid City, S. Dak., valuation, $187,84.5 ; appropriation, $8,000. Mr. Pierce says: Our plant is old and needs fully all of tlie $10,000 appropriation to keep it in shape. Two years ago when Inspector Knight was liere he informed me that he would recommend that Flandreau have an appropriation of $10,000 a year for two or three years, in order to get the plant in better shape, after which time probably a lesser amount would answer. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 75 1 would like very much if you can secure the additional $2,000, and at the same time get one-half of the money made immediately available; that is, one- half of the vchole amount appropriated for repairs aud improvements. Now, he states the reason for that as follows : The building season here is such that when we do not get an appropriation available until July 1, then after getting authority and purchasing material, we have little time left before cold weather to accomplish much outside work. It seems to me that the request that one-half of the appropriation be available is a veiy reasonable request. I think that is all I have to say, Mr. Chairman and gentleman, and I hope the committee will give due consideration to Supt. Pierce's request. It is on page 49 of the bill I have, that I suggest the amend- ment be inserted, under " South Dakota " — the first paragraph under the head of South Daliota, section 20. The Chairjian. Is that all you care to state, Senator Sterling? Senator Steeling. That is all I have to say, and I am very much obliged to the committee. (The committee then took up the matter of the opening of the Crow Reservation, which is reported in separate hearings, after which the committee adjourned until 10.30 a. m. Wednesday, Feb- ruary 12.) INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. r WEDNESDAY, EEBRTIAKY 12, 1919. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst, presiding. Mr. Yellowtail. The first day of our hearing I suggested that I had submitted a bill and asked the committee if they would not re- port it out favorably, and the thing has died a natural death in our hearing. The Chairman. That is a good thing for it. Mr. YeUjOWtail. I do not agree with you there. Here is some- thing that is really necessary, Mr. Chairman. This is simply per- ' mitting the Crows to proceed. The Chairman. Let Mr. Meritt take it home with him and see what he wants to do with it. Senator Curtis. Will we go on with the appropriation bill? The Chairman. Yes. We will proceed with the appropriation bill now. We will commence with Oregon, the uncontested items in Oregon. support and civilization of INDIANS OF THE KLAMATH AGENCY, OKEG. The Chairman. This is for support and civilization of the Indians of the Klamath Agency, Oreg., including pay of employees, $6,000. (The item was agreed to.) warm SPRINGS AGENCY, OREG. The Chairman. The next item is for support ahd civilization of the confederated tribes and bands under the Warm Springs Agency, including pay of employees, $4,000. (The item was agreed to.) UMATIMjA AGENCY, OREG. The Chairman. The next item is for support and civilization of the Indians of the Umatilla Agency, Oreg., including pay of em- ployees, $3,000. (The item was agreed to.) INDIAN school, SALEM, OREG. The Chairman. The next item is for support and education of 600 Indian pupils, including native Indian pupils brought from Alaska, at the Indian school, Salem, Oreg., including pay of superintendent, 77 78 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. $122,000; for general repairs and improvements, including repair and construction of walks and roads, $20,000; for rebuilding barn de- stroyed by fire, $8,000; in all, $150,000. Mr. Meeitt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. The Chairman. I will vote for the amount appropriated last year. What is the pleasure of the committee ? Senator Curtis. What was the amount appropriated last year? The Chairman. $133,000. Mr. Meritt. You will note we have had a barn destroyed by fire very recently, and we have no place in which to house the stock, and we would like very much to have that item for rebuilding the barn. The Chairman. That is the item of $8,000? Mr. Meriii'. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Would you be content then to give up the $20,000? Can you get along without the construction of walks and roads this year? Mr. Meritt. We have a great many buildings at that school, and that is the appropriation which has been carried in the bill every year for keeping up those buildings. They are old buildings, and these school buildings have a great deal of hard service. The Chairman. I see. Could you not get along with the estimate, or did the barn burn down since that time ? Mr. Meritt. The barn has burned since the estimate. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee? Mr. Meritt. We would like to have the amount allowed by the House, if possible. Senator Curtis. I move that we agree to the House provision. (The motion was agreed to.) GRANDE EONDE AND SItETZ AGENCIES, GREG. The Chairman. The next item is for the support and civilization of Indians at Grande Eonde and Siletz Agencies, Oreg., including pay of employees, $4,000. Senator Curtis. Mr. Meritt, you only have 437 Indians there. Isn't that a little Jarge for the support and civilization of that num- ber of Indians ? Mr. Meritt. We fexpect at a very early date to reduce this appro- priation, and we will take a cut of $1,000 on that item, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. On which item? Mr. Meritt. On the Grande Eonde Agency. The Chairman. Making that $3,000 ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. (The item, reduced to $3,000, was agreed to.) Senator Curtis. Now, Mr. Chairman, the next provision — I think we ought to let that go until Senator McNary is here. It seems to me that proposition is very expensive. It has cost $196,000 now, and there is only 1,600 acres of land farmed by the Indians? Senator Nugent. It has cost how much. Senator ? Senator Curtis. It has cost $196,000 up to date. Do you Avant to explain it now, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The irrigation project is completed, and this appropriation here is for the maintenance and operation the INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 79 building of such laterals as may be necessary. Inasmuch as we are only asking for $5,000, $2,000 less than was appropriated last year, we would like very much to have this appropriation. Senator Curtis. Will this complete the work? Mr. Mebitt. It will complete the work, but it will be necessary to have a small appropriation each year to maintain the project. • Senator CrExis. You have some 5,000 acres under ditch, under the project and yet you are only farming, by the Indians, 1,600 acres. The other 300 acres is your agency farm, is it not* Mr. Meeitt. Yes. sir. Senator Curtis. It seems to me that with that appropriation you ought to get more land irrigated. Mr. Meritt. We hope very soon to get more of that land irrigated,. The project has only been completed recently. Senator Curtis. I will withdraw any objection at this time. (The item was agreed to.) The Chairman. The next is South Dakota, and we will pass that until the Senator from that State can be here. Utah. confederated bands of utes. The Chairman. The next item is for $53,7fl0. Mr. Meritt. That is a treaty item, Mr. Chairman. (The item was agreed to.) SUPPORT AND CIVILIZ.ATIOX OK INDIANS IN UTAH. The Chairman. The next item is for the support and civilization of Indians in Utah, not otherwise provided for, including pav of employees, $10,000. Mr. Meri'it. That same amount has been allowed for some time on this appropriation. Senator Curtis. How manv Indians have j'ou on that reserva- tion? Mr. Meritt. We have about 1,400 Indians. (The item was agreed to.) ITE mot NTAIN BAND. IINTAII, WHITE RIVER, UNCOalPAHGRE BANDS. ' Mr. ]\Ieritt. That same amount, $3,')0,000, was appropriated last year and for several years prior. This appropriation is absolutely necessary, Mr. Chairman, because we have a large irrigation project on the reservation, and we are using these tribal funds to get the lands of the Indians under cultivation. The water right expires soon and it is necessary to get the lands under cuKivation at tlip earliest possible date. Senator Curtis. I understand if you do not get them under the ditch very soon you lose the right under some State law. Is that correct? Mr. Meritt. Congress, a few years ago, extended the water-right laws of the State of I'tah'to this ^er-er^-at^on and we hnve a very 80 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. limited time m ^Yhich to get this land under cultivation in order to save the water rights for the Indians under that legislation. (The item was agreed to.) IREIGATIOX or ALLOTTED LANDS OF THE LNCOMPAHGBE, UNITAH, AND WHITE EIVER UTES, IN UTAH. Mr. ilERrrT. We have reduced this appropriation $50,000 and it is for the purpose of constructing laterals and distributing systems for that irrigation project on the Ute reservation. This appropria- tion and the preceding appropriations are closely connected; it is' for the purpose of getting the land under ditch and under cultivation to save water rights. The Chairman. This is out of tribal fuads and not out of the Treasury ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. (The item was agreed to.) PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN UINTAH AND DUCHESNE COUNTIES, UTAH. The Chairman. The next item is as follows: The sum of $12,000 to be expended in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, under rules and regulations to be prescribed by him, in aid of tlie public schools in the Uintaliuld un doubtedly depress the oil market. So, at the increased quantity they would really recive less money than they would at the graduated quantity. But 12 yeai-s is a long time, and an oil well gives up 85 per cent of its contents in 3 years and 50 per cent in 1 year. There isi no reason why that should be any obstruction. Here is the reason I object to the extension of it: People have gone into that country and have purchased these lands from those Indians on the basis of this existing treaty. Uundoubtedly on the assumption that the period would expire in 1931. That prospective expiration has entered into the contract. It has been a part of the consideration. The people who bought those lands have paid for that prospective interest. Now, I think the Gov- ernment, and I think the Indians, ought to .keep faith with those purchasers, and I think it is an example of observation of contract, and it is sound morals to teach those Indians that when they make a contract they must stand by it. If any action at all should be taken to the contrary, it certainly ought to be limited to those lands which have not been sold, and which are still retained by the Indians. It ought never to apply to oil coming from lands where the Indian has sold the land and' conveyed it to private purchasers, innocent pur- chasers, for a valuable consideration, where a part of the considera- tion was a prospect that sooner or later they would come into posses- sion of these mineral rights. Senator Walsh. Let me say, when the matter was under considera- tion by the committee a few days ago, the committee were entirely agreed about that, that if the proper construction of this' act is tha;t the title was to pass to the individual Indians at the expiration of the trust period, then it would be rank injustice to the purchasers, of which Congress would not be guilty, to extend the period, but I think the view was generally entertained that in view of the language, the purchaser had no right to imagine that he was going to get it at the end of the period, and that it remained for Congress to make such disposition at that time as it saw fit to make. Senator Gore. I think, Senator, as a practical matter, and it may have been, in the light of experience, a vain hope for the purchaser to imagine that this Government ever would turn these Indians loose, or that any department or division of this Government would ever surrender any power over anybody that it ever got in the hollow of its hand. I rather think that was a vain notion, and yet I think the settlers in that country who have been pioneers, and who are building up that country, and who are making it a seat of civili- zation, I think it entered into their minds when they made these pur- INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 87 chases, and I think the Indians themselves, if they are ever to become self-reliant and self-sustaining citizens, sooner or later we ought to break these lead strings; it will never be done with the consent of the Government, or rather, it will never be done with the consent of the department, and I do not challenge their capacity and good faith ; I think rather it is due to sentimentality on the part of the Indian. Office ; it is like a parent who never feels like his own child is grown and he never likes to see the fledgling leave his nest. I imagine if the fledgling never left the nest it would never learn to fly, and I think if the Indians ever learn to stand on their own feet, it will probably be after they have been given a chance to do it. While I am in favor of protecting the rights of the Indians, this, in my judg- ment, ought never to apply to land which has been sold and which has passed into private ownership. I hope Congress will never do that thing. Senator Nugent. Do you not believe that with an express ref- erence m this treaty to the fact that Congress might take such further action as it deemed wise with respect to the trust period,, the purchasers of these lands bought with their eyes open and they should have taken cognizance of that provision ? Senator Gohe. Senator, I think from the communications I have had from these people that they expected Congress when they made the purchases wbuld let this trust expire. Senator Nttgent. They had no assurance to that effect from any- body. Senator Gore. No, they did not, except they had a right to assume that if Congress was wise it would respect this limitation. Congress had the power to make it a longer period when it did this ; it was a long time then, I think 25 years. My own judgment is that the bulk of the people who bought these lands bought them in anticipation of acquiring final title to the mineral rights. I think most of the mineral rights will be exhausted by the time the 25 years run out ; I think the department ought to make every effort on earth to exhaust the oil and gas in that district so that the Indians will get every dollar, if possible, of oil and gas that there is in that country, because it belongs to the Indians and they ought to have it, and it belongs to them up until 1931, and if the department does its duty it will exhaust the mineral resources of that country, and I hope it will. If the Government is in default I do not want that dereliction of duty inflicted on men who bought these lands in anticipation of the fact that if there was any oil right or any oil remaining after the period expired it would be theirs by right of purchase. That is my view of it. Now, I want to call the attention of the committee to Mr. Meeitt. Senator Gore, before you leave that point, may I call the attention of the conamittee to the fact that the act of June 28, 1906, was not a treaty with the Indians, but an act of Congress, and this act is very plain as to the authority of Congress extending the trust period on these oil lands. The act was read to the committee a few days ago and is now in the record. Senator Goke. I have no doubt about the reseivation, and I imagine that if it should be extended it would reserve the right again to further extend it for 25 years, and at the end of that period 88 INDIAN APPEOPKIATIOW BILL, 1920. there would be those who would do it again. I have a great deal of respect for my friend Meritt. He is a splendid officer, and he does nearly everything I want him to do, which proves that he is a good officer. I am for him strong. I want those who are m power to retain their power. They will never give up this power willmgly, but Congress will never extend this time with my consent as to lands which have been sold. I do not make that by way of a threat, because I know the majority can always legislate. I do not think they ought to legislate in this way. I do not think that the Indians ought to sell their property, undoubtedly with the thought that they were selling the property with whatever it carries ; they ought not to come back and insist that it was an Indian gift and want it back. I do not think the Government ought to break its contracts with the Indians, nor do I think the Indians ought to break their con- tracts with anybody else. The Chairjian. Are there any more items. Senator? Senator Goke. Yes, sir; there is the claim on behalf of Mr. Mc- intosh. He is coal trustee for the Choctaws. He is the present trustee by appointment; he was the previous trustee, and there was an interregnum between one trusteeship and another appointment, and during that time he discharged the duties of the office in the same manner and to the same extent as if he had been duly reap- pointed. This undertakes to pay him the compensation he would have received but for the lapse in the reappointment. The duties were discharged and the money was Senator Cuetis. Out of the Indian funds? Senator Gore. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. What is the amount ? Senator Gore. I do not know; I believe it is $1,500. The claim in the House was for $1,600, I believe, but it was a little less than that ; there was a slight error in calculation. There is one other item, and that is in regard to the permitting of imcontested oil and gas leases to be approved by the Commissioners of the Five Civilized Tribes. I wish to say a word in behalf of that. As the House bill is written, uncontested leases can be approved by the Commissioner of the Five Civilized Tribes, and I hope to see that provision retained in this bill. Now, where there are contests, of course either side ought to have the right to appeal; they ought to have the light to appeal to the authorities here in Washington. That, of course, occasions delay, and where there is no contest this delay ought to be obviated, because that is a new country and it is a growing country, and the brakes ought not to be put on the wheels of progress. Where there is no contest, there is no occasion' for such delay, and therefore, there is no justification for such delay. Con- gressman Cai ter remarked to me the other day that an Indian could not buy a set of chain harness or a sack of flour without the matter grinding through the bui'eau here in Washington. He stated that had to pass a long cataclasm which had overwhelmed the Indians on account of it ; the authorities here, when these leases come up, discuss them and act on the data that accompanies the leases; they act on the reports of their inspectors down in Oklahoma. They do not go down there where there is no appeal, as I undeF' stand it, and reinvestigate the matter. If they should do this, they. INDIA?: APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 89 •ought to do it in the first instance, and not devolve any of the pantomime on the authorities in Okhihonia. As I say, it occasions considerable delay. The Commissioner for the Five Civilized Tribes is a,n Indian by blood ; he used to be the Eegister of the Treasury ; he is in sympathetic accord AA'ith the Indians in that country; he is ■qualified to pass on these matters, quite as well qualified, I will say, as any officer here in Washington ; but if he is not as well qualified as anybody here in Washington, then the authority that is here in Washington ought to be transferred to Oklahoma, or somebody who is big enough and who is honest enough to transact this business in Oklahoma, quite as well as if he happened to reside in Washington, ought to be put in charge in Oklahoma. The people down there are pretty restive under this long-range Government. I know it has hecome fashionable to believe that everything can be done from Washington, and a great many people have come to join that school, that everything can be done, to the minutest concerns of daily life, in Washington better than by the people on the ground. I do not like that theory ; I do not like that spirit : I do not think it is sound doctrine: 1 think it tends to enervate the people and make parisites and dependents of them. Now, these duties should devolve on the Commissioner for the Five Civilized Tribes ; he is qualified to transact the business ; if he is not, then enact some sort of legislation that will make it certain that the man in Oklahoma who is charged with these duties will have the same qualifications as the people in Washington who dis- charge them. Cut out this delay. I repeat, so far as the contested claims are concerned, whenever the rights or interests of the Indians are in any sort of jeopardy, they ought to have every possible safeguard thrown around them, and it ought to come to Washington, to the Bureau of Indian Af- fairs, the Secretary of the Interior, the Pi-esident of the United States, or even to Congress; but where it is uncontested and purely a matter of form, then let action be taken to take the place of delay. Gentlemen, I thank you. The Chairman. Senator, are you through? Senator Gore. Yes, sir; unless there are some questions to be asked me about some of these matters. The Chairman. Representative Chandler, of Oklahoma, desired to be heard with reference to the attorneyship question. STATEMENT OF EEPRESENTATIVE CHANDLER, OF OKLAHOMA. Senator Nugent. Is there anything in the proposed bill with re- spect to that? Mr. Chandler. No, sir. There was an item in the bill, a para- graph in the bill providing for an attorney; it was placed in the hill unanimously by the Committee on Indian Affairs for the House, hut it went out on a point of order on the floor of the House. I want to supplement what Senator Gore stated here in regard' to the needs of an attorney for this tribe of Indians. Here is a tribe of Indians of about 2,200, the richest tribe in the world, with billions of dollars' worth of property, with an income running into the millions of dol- lars each year, that are denied legal advice. 90 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILlL, 1920. The departnient- The Chairman. They are denied legal advice? They have a great deal of money from their incomes. What is their average income i Mr. Chandler. I think it is something over $4,000 per year, for each man, woman and child. The Chairjiax. For each man, %Yoman and child. They are intelligent people, and you say they are denied legal advice? Mr. Chaxdler. Yes, sir; they are denied legal advice. The Chairman. That seems incredible. Mr. CnANDiiER. It seems that vray to us. Senator McNart. Can they not go out and employ an attorney? Mr. Chandler. No, sir ; most of these Indians are incompetent, so' you say. Senator McNary. I never said that. I have never said anything^ to 3'ou about it. The Chairman. He means Congress. Mr. Chandler. Congress says so as a vyhole; they are restricted Indians, every one of them. Senator Curtis. Mr. Chandler, the law authorizes the tribe to em- ploy attorneys with the consent of the Indian Office. 'Mr. Chandler. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. No ; what effort has been made on the part of the tribe, if you know, to have the Indian Office consent to the employ- ment of an attorney? Mr. Chandler. Several times within the last six of seven years they have suggested attorneys and suggested the names to the de- partment, and these attorneys or applications for attorneys have been denied by the department. Senator Curtis. Were they attorneys who lived in the community and who were reputable attorneys? Mr. Chandler. In every case I think they lived in the Osage- Nation and were reputable attorneys. I remember one man whO' is now the district judge of that, judicial district who was selected,, and his name was presented to the department and it was denied. The department contends that they do not need an attorney; they contend that they are taking care of the legal advice of these Indians and they are giving them the advice of a clerk in the agency at Pawhuska. Based upon that advice Senator Curtis. What do you mean by clerk — a law clerk? > Mr. Chandler. I think he is probably admitted to the bar ; he does not practice law. Based upon that advice — I placed in the hearings of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the House a statement showing' where these Indians had lost over a quarter of a million dollars by reason of this bad advice given by the department. Senator Curtis. That is in the tax question? Mr. Chandler. In the tax question. Senator Curtis. I read the hearings on that. Mr. Chandler. Yes; and it seems to me that any tribe or any people or a corporation, for instance, that has the property and th& income that these people have should not be denied the proper legal advice, but should be allowed legal advice of their own selection- They need a high-class attorney. Senator Curtis. Have you any case outside of the tax case?' INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL, 1920. 91 Mr. Chandler. There have been a number of other matters. This was such a large one, I only selected that one. Senator' Ctjetis. The tax case, if I remember the hearing, the tax case, so it is claimed by the department, is going to the Supreme Court of the United States. Mr. Chandler. Oh, yes; but the Supreme Court of the United States has already decided another case against them ; so it is going on up. Senator Curtis. The same question is involved? Mr. Chandler. Practically the same question; yes. The Chairman. Let us hear from the department. Senator McNart. How does that amendment read? The Chairman. Have you the proposed amendment? Mr. Chandler. I offered an amendment in the House before the Committee on Indian Affairs, which was unanimously adopted. Senator McNart. What is it ? That is what I want to know. The Chairman. Just read it. Mr. Chandler. This is the amendment : That the Osage Tribe of Indians in Oklahoma, through its tribal council, is hereby authorized to employ, annually, a tribal attorney for said tribe, at a salary of not exceeding $7,500 per annum, a stenographer, and expenses, said contract of employment to be in full force and effect, as per the terms thereof, when executed by the Osage tribal council and said attorney, said salary and expenses to be paid quarterly and after said account has been audited and allowed by the Osage tribal council. This authority shall extend to said tribe for 10 years, unless otherwise provided by Congress. There is hereby appro- priated annually from Osage tribal royalties received from oil, gas, or other mineral rights or other tribal funds $10,000, or so much thereof as shall be necessary, to pay for said services and expenses: Provided, That said contract shall be "subject to cancellation by either party thereto upon sixty days' writ- ten notice. Senator Nugent. Does that $7,500 include the salary of the stenographer? Mr. Chandler. No, sir; the $10,000 altogether includes it. it is not to exceed that. It is not necessary for them to pay that amount, but I teel that a people that has as I'lmch income and as much property as they have, thev need a high-class attorney and an able attorney. They do not need the little snipe of an attorney that is just out of the law school or sometliing like that; what they need is a man of ability and a man to look after their property. Here they have almost as much property as the TTnited States Steel Co., who will probably have attorneys with salaries of $100,000 per annum, and it seems to me that tribe has the right . ,-,-,■ .^ The Chairman. Are those Indians in your congressional district ? Mr. Chandler. Yes, sir; they are in my congressional district, I Senator McNary. Are any of the Indians suffering from the want of legal advice at this time? Are any of their rights being taken from them? , , i. j Mr Chandler. I just stated that they lost over a quarter ot a million dollars by reason of bad advice in this one instance alone. Senator McNary. A good many white men have done the same thing. •92 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Chandler. Yes; but the matter they were advised upon, a man wlio knew the first elementary principles of law undoubtedly would not hare gi^-en them that advice. Senator McNari-. Is there anything in the future which you have in mind that might arise that requires one of these high-salai-ied, especially adapted, well-skilled lawj^ersl Mr. Ci-iANDLEi!. There are matters arising at all times. Senator MoNaey. Tell me of them. Mr. Chandler. I can not forecast what probably would come up, or why they should get into a lawsuit about anything, or why they would need an attorney. Senator McNary. What is it that is continually arising now ? Mr. Chandler. I keep an attorney employed in my business at all times. Senator McNart. I am not talking about your business. I am not concerned with that. Mr. Chandler. Why should not any other people in business have an attorney? Senator McXary. I get along without a lawyer pretty well. Mr. Chandler. Well, perhaps so. Senator Curtis. Have they made any effort to secure the approval •of an attorney by the department? Mr. Chandler. I do not tliink they have in the last year. It has not come to my knowledge if they have. They simply throw up their hands and say they can -not reach an agreement with the de- partment, and it is their money which they want to spend, and it seems to me they should be permitted to do so. Senator Curtis. That is not the point. What I am trying to get at is. Why should the law be waived in this case ? Because if you waive it in this case the next session of Congress other tribes will come in and ask for the same relief. Xow, after years of experience in Indian matters and handling the matters, Congress determined upon a policy providing that no lawyer should be employed unless the contract was approved by the department. That has woiked very satisfactorily for years. There are only two or three tribes in the TTnited States that have complained about . it, the Osages and the Chippewas, and I think one other tribe up in Washington : they are the only ones I know of. and possibly these gentlemen who are here, the Crows, are, but I do not remember whether they did or not. Anyhow, there are only four or five tribes which have complained. What I want to know is what are the reasons for waiving that law in this case? Mr. Chandler. The main reason is because they can not get an attorney otherwise: the Commissioner of Indian Affairs absolutely refuses to grant them an attorney and states that they do not need an attornev; he puts himself absolutely up against their wishes and against the general opinion of the entire public down in that country. The CHAiRisrAX. Mr. Humphrey desires to make a statement and v\'e will be glad to hear from him. STATMENT OF PAUL N. HUMPHREY. jNIr. HujiPHRET. I want to add merely a word. I do not wish to take up any more of your time than is necessary. I want to say first that I am sent here by the tribal council and some other Osage INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 93 Indians, and there is also a committee of the tribal council here with me. Gentlemen, you have heard Mr. Chandler read the amendment which the Osage Indians desire. I want to emphasize the fact first that .it is the Osage Indians making this request, and, secondly, that it is their own money which they ask you to spend ^ov that purpose. Mr. Chandler has referred to the property of the Osage Indians. I do not think there is any question in the mind of any of you gentlemen as to the ability of the tribe to pay this small sum. As to Senator Curtis's question as to what legal matters there are demanding attention I want to say to the Senator that there is pending to-day before the attorney general of the State of Okla- homa Senator Ctjetis. I think that was Senator McNary that asked the question. Mr. HuMPHRET. There is pending now before the attorney gen- eral of the State of Oklahoma the 'question as to whether or not the individual income of these Indians is liable to a State income tax. If an attorney should appear in that case and win his suit and contend that it was not, he would by that act alone pay his salary for many years to come. Gentlemen, I can not conceive .why the Commissioner of Indian Affairs can be opposed to this legislation. So far as I know he is the only one that is. The Indians are united ; the House delegation is united, and while Senator Owen is not here to speak for himself, it is my advice that he is in favor of this provision, or similar legislation. Gentlemen, since, 1914, the Osages have been without a tribal authority, and during all of that time the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, under existing law, has had ample authority to employ an attorney for them to be approved by the Secretary. I do not think there has been a year since" 1914 but what the Osage Indians have passed from one to three and four resolutions asking the commissioner to appoint an attorney for them to look after their business. In each instance the commissioner has refused to do it, and I Senator Nugent. Why ? Mr. HuMPHEET. He says they do not need it. Senator. Senator Walsh. Who represents them in this case in the Supreme Court? Mr. Humphrey. Mr. Woodward, the attorney in the Osage Agencj' there, I presume. He is the law clerk in the Osage Agency at Pawhuska. Senator Walsh. A law clerk in the agency ? Mr. Humphrey. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. Have they a law clerk there ? Mr. Humphrey. Yes, sir; a Government employee. Senator Walsh. What salary does he get? Mr. Meritt. $3,0.00. Mr. PIuMPHEEY. Gentlemen, that is not the point I want to make liere. You have heard this morning Senator Walsh speak about the Indian?, civilizing them and giving them a chance to look after their own affairs. Here you have a tribe that come to you and ask ^ou to permit them to have somebody come here and present their news to this committee and to the Department of the Interior; The jommissioner may think that they want to oppose him' in every 94 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. proposition ; that is not the. purpose of the Indians at all. There are question daily arising which I can not enumerate, but they are there; the council, every time it meets, needs advice, both as to ap- proving leases and other matters that come up daily affecting the tribe. It seems to me, gentlemen, that with the Indians requestmg it, and with the Oklahoma delegation a unit behind it, and as far as I can see with no valid objection whatever against it except the. fact that the commissioner takes the position that there are no com- plicated legal questions concerning it, that this committee should allow the amendment. Senator Curtis. Let me interrupt you. I want to say I agree . with you that they should have an attorney, but I do think the tribe could present the name of an attorney to the commissioner that the commissioner would approve. Mr. Httmphrey. Senator Curtis, as I explained to you yesterday in your office, under existing law I doubt if I, myself, can go to that tribe and ask that tribe to present my name to the Commissioner' of Indian Affaiis, because I would be seeking to get a contract with a tribe of Indians, which is prohibited by Federal law. The result is, Avhile I do not mean to say it in a bragging way at all, for seven years I was clerk to the Indian Committee of the House of Repre-^ sentatives. I resigned there a year and a half ago and located in Pawhuska — last year I presented a petition to the Secretary under the existing law f on authority to enter into a contract with that tribe of Indians. The application was indorsed personally by the mem- bers of the Indian Committee of the' House, and by a good many leaders of the House and by a good many men of the United States Senate.. I do not know whether Senator Ashurst did or not; but that petition was never acted upon. I do not say this because I am the proper man to represent the tribe at all. I say it to cite the fact that the Indians heretofore have absolutely been unable to get anywhere with the commissioner with reference to employing attorneys under the existing law. A year ago, before the council was called to Washington, they passed a resolution requesting the commissioner to appoint an attorney for them; not only did they do that — and I have the resolution in my hand — but they requested the commissioner to employ special counsel to accom- pany them to Washington on that trip. So far as I know — the mem- bers of the tribe told me the same thing — ^that petition was not even given the courtesy of a reply. I do not know of anything else I care to say, gentlemen. I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, that Assistant Chief Paul Red Eagle is here, with other members of the council, and I would like for you to do them the courtesy to hear them. Senator Curtis. Let us hear the chief. STATEMENT OF PAUL EED EAGLE (THROUGH ARTHUR BONNI- CASTLE, INTERPRETER). The Chairman. Are you the chief of the Osages ? i. Paul Red Eagle. Assistant chief. The Chairman. What do you wish to say in respect to your desire i or the desire of your tribe to employ an attorney to look after its affairs ? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 95 Paul, Red Eagle. I was selected to head a committee from the ribal council to come up here in the interest of tribal matters. One of the matters I want to talk about, while before this com- nittee, is the attorneyship. The Osage Tribe needs an attorney; ve have been wanting one for a long time ; and what I want to say in )articular is that we want the tribe in general to have a say as to the lelection of the attorney. If the council should have the approval )f the selection, which I think ought to be made by the tribe, then, n turn, the department in the Indian Office have the final approval )f the selection, whatever it may be. As to the other matters that I want to say something about, one of ihe first is the extension of the trust period. The trust period expires in 1931, and we are asking for 25 years from that date- an extension of 25 j'ears more. We have our own reasons for asking for the extension of this trust period. At the present time we get a revenue from oil and gas only, and there must be other minerals, such, as coal, lead, and zinc. The Chairman. And your tribe wishes the trust period extended for 25 years? Paul Red Eagle. Twenty -five years more, in order that we may get some benefit from the other minerals besides oil and gas. We think we have a right to this; we are the original owners of that land. Some people may oppose it, but we still think we ought to be given further time to get what we think belongs to us. The other matter is The Chairman (interposing). Before yOu leave that matter of the extension of the trust period, are there any tribal members of the Osages, or any member at all, that is opposed to the extension of the trust period for another 25 years ? Paul Eed Eagle. The tribe, 1 think the majority of them, favor the extension of the trust period. The Chairman. They favor the extension of the trust period? Paul Red Eagle. Yes, sir. Now, the other matter is that, under the -present rules and regulations that govern the leasing of our lands for oil and gas, we think it is a little too slow. While the develop- ment is rapidly being made, we would like for the department to allow us, if possible, to lease these lands, all of the lands, as soon as possible, for oil and gas. ■ The Chairman. You mean you want the remainder of the lands leased at an early date, the western half leased at an early date? Paul Red Eagle. That is just what I mean. The Chairman. You* are not talking now about the so-called Hast- ings amendment? Senator Curtis. That does not apply to this. Paul Red Eagle. Yes ; I mean the unleased portion of the Osage Reservation. I think that is about all I care to say. Mr. Arhur Bonnicastle. I would like to say a word, however. Mr. Meritt. Before you do so, let me say a word. . Commissioner Sells has requested me to state that he is opposed absolutely to the amendment that has been suggested in regard to the expenditure of $10,000 in. the employment of a tribal attorney for the Osage Indians for these reasons : 96 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. First, the Osage Tribe of Indians do not have any complicated legal problems involved. It is true they have very large propefty interests, but there aire no complicated legal problems m connection with that tribe. They have one case now pending in the courts, what is known as the- Osage tax case. I may say that the initial work in that case was done by a former tribal attorney several years ago. That contract has ex- pired and for five or six years the Osages have not had a tribal attorney. This Osage tax case Avas conducted by the Depstrtment of Justice . representing these Indians at the request of tlie Interior Department. They had the very best obtainable legal talent. The case had been' appealed to the Supreme Court,. and it is our purpose to make the very best fight possible with the best talent that may be furnished by the Department of Justice in behalf of the Osage Indians in that case. There are some small, individual legal matters constantly arising at the Osage Agency, and we have employed in that agency a num- ber of clerks, who ai'e law graduates, who attend to the minor legal matters, and we have one attorney in that office by the name of Mi\ Woodward, who is an intermarried Osage, whose wife is on the Osage roll. He is a good attorney and he goes into the local courts there to represent the individual Osage Indians regarding the various legal matters in which tlie Osage Agency is interested. Senator Nugent. Is he paid out of the tribal funds, Mr. Meritt? • Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. the commissioner is opposed to this item for another reason: On the Osage Reservation there are two serious factions among the Osage Indians ; one, representing the full bloods,, and the other representing the mixed bloods. The mixed-blood In- dians are in the majority; they control the elections; they have the machinery of the council in their hands; and the full bloods object to the mixed bloods employing an attorney, payable out of their funds, and representing largely the mixed-blood element on the Osage Reservation, which is controlled by the Osage council com- posed of a majority of the mixed bloods. There is a gentleman here, who has spoken, who is a full blood, and both branches of the council are composed largely of mixed bloods. : Senator Curtis. Who is the chief? Is he a mixed blood? Mr. Meeitt. Charlie Brown is the chief of the council, and he is very largely of white blood, and he doesn't even live in the Osage Nation or in the State of Oklahoma. These full-blood Indians ob- ject very strenuously to that method of election of practically out- siders to control their affairs. Senator Walsh. Has he gotten so rich that he lives in New York t Mr. Meeitt. He lives in Kansas. In fact. Commissioner Sells points out the fact that Congress has provided a way by which at- torneys may be employed by the Indian tribes — sections 2103, 2104, 2105, and 2106 of the Revised Statutes enumerate how attorneys may be employed. They Are required to get a contract with the tribe, and the contract is to be executed according to a certain form. That contract is to be submitted to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and to the Secretary of the Interior for their approval. Senator Kendeick. Mr. Meritt, may I ask you a question? What, proportions of the property interests involved belong to the mixed bloods and to the full bloods ? INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL, 192(). 97 Mr. Meeitt. a majority — the larger proportion of the property of ,he Osage Nation — belongs to the full bloods, because they have more shildren than the mixed bloods; yet the voting power is in the con- ;rol of the mixed bloods; they have a majority of about 100 and, for ;hat reason, they control the council. I think it would be well to ;all upon Mr. Bonnicastle, who was the interpreter here. Senator Curtis. Let me ask you a question : A few years ago, be- fore these Indians had anywhere near the property they have now 3r before it was developed, you thought their affairs were of sufficient inmportance to give them attorneys by the year, didn't you ? Mr. Meritt. That was before the affairs" of the tribe settled down largely to a question of dividing the oil royalties, which is not a legal proposition but simply a clerical detail, supervised by the superin- tendent of that reservation ; and, by the way,, we have one of the best superintendents in the Indian service in charge of the Osage Reser- vation, a man of very large affairs and of long experience. The Chairman. Put his name in the record. Mr. Meritt. Mr. J. George Wright. The Chairman. He is here to-day, is he not ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Isn't it a fact that these Indians have many more questions arising now than thej' had before they had this vast property to take care of? The Indian Office supervised the leasing of their lands before — • it was largely leased to the cattlemen. Mr. Meritt. We are increasing the leasing on that reservation, but legal problems have not been involved. Senator Curtis. But the individual income of these Indians at that time was $200 a year ; now it is $4,000 a year. This lawyer has just stated to you that the Indians are already threatened with suits by the Government to subject their incomes from tribal properties to the income tax, and it seems to me they are entitled to advice on that question. Senator Walsh. If a controversy of that kind arose, Mr. Meritt, what would you do? The Department of Justice would be on both sides. Mr. Meritt. We would submit the matter to the Department of Justice for decision, or we might submit the case to the Solicitor for the Interior Department, who is the legal adviser of the Secretary af the Interior. Senator Curtis. Yes; but he is in the Department of Justice just the same. Senator Walsh. Supposing the Department of Justice thought ;hat the Government ought to have the income tax, then would you ;ake any further steps ? , Mr. Meritt. If that question should arise and the Osage Indians ??anted an attorney and would submit the names of two or three 'eputable attorneys who were satisfactory to all of the Osage In- lians, or a majority of them, rather than representing the mixed- )lood Indians as against the full bloods, we would gladly approve I contract. . 106080—19 7 ii 98 INDIAK APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. The Chairman. Would your objection to an attorney be with- drawn if a majority of full bloods, as well as a majority of the mixed bloods, united in desiring an attorney ? Mr. Meeitt. We would not oppose an attorney, provided the mixed bloods and the full bloods would get together and agree on a reputable attorney and submit the contract for approval in accord- ance with the existing law. This legislation is not necessary, because there is existing law covering the subject. Senator Curtis. Then, I understand from you, if these people will go home, both the mixed bloods and full bloods, and get together and • agree upon an attorney who is satisfactory to both elements, the full bloods and the mixed bloods, submitting those names to the office, that if he is a reputable attorney, you would have no objection to his employment and would approve the contract? Mr. Meritt. I think that there would be no objection on the part of the department to that procedure if that were done, but the department does object to this legislation going on the Indian bill and permitting the present council, which is controlled by the mixed- blood Indians in the Osage Eeservation, employing an attorney with- out the approval of the full-blood Indians. Senator McNary. Mr. Meritt, does the statute to which you made i-eference a moment ago provide that an attorney may be employed annually, or is it in each particular case ? Mr. Meritt. He may be employed annually. Senator McNary. Then the statute provides the method now? Mr. Meritt, Yes, sir. Senator McNary. And the effort to change it in this bill is that the decision is exclusively with the Indians without reference to the department. That is the idea of that amendment, is it not ? Mr. Meritt. That is in accordance with the wording of the amend- ment. The Chairman. Mr. Meritt, there is some testimony here to the effect that there are some 2,200 of these Indians, and that the yearly income of each man, woman, and child is $4,000. Is that right? Mr. Meritt. That is true. The Chairman, That is $8,800,000 per year that we are paying to this tribe. Mr. Humphrey. According to Mr. Meritt's statement, the office handled $21,000,000, of these Indians, last year. Mr. Meritt states it as $42,000,000, namely, that it has come in and was paid out. That is Mr. Meritt's own statement. The Chairman. What I want to know is how much money is paid in royalties to these Indians ? Mr. Humphrey. $41,000,000. The Chairman. $41,000,000 paid out? Mr. Meritt. The Osage Indians have an income from oil royalties of between nine and ten million dollars. The Chairman. In oil royalties alone? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNary. A year ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. And that nine or ten millions was paid lo 2,200 people ? ISTDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 99 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. In addition to that, they have the income from the lease of their farms; they have their grazing leases; they have some stone quarries, etc. The Chairman. It seems to me, if I were Commissioner of In- dian Affairs, I would feel much safer if there was an attorney em- ployed by the Indians, an attorney of some responsibility. It seems to me that the Indian commissioner would feel much safer, because here is a great golden stream of nine million dollars paid out to minor children. In the long future these minors may clainl that they didn't get it or that it was squandered by their guardian. It seems to me th;\t it is a short-sighted policy on the part of the Secretary of the Interior and the commissioner to oppose the employ- ment of a reputable attorney. AVhy, talve tliis committee. Here we sit ; we hixxe some responsibility ; we know that eight or ten million dollars is being paid out, a large percentage of it paid to minors — I feel safer; I feel that the lid ui;iy blow oil' some clay. I should want some attorney of some responsibility to tell those Indians what to do. I do not reflect at all upon Mr. Wright; I think he is one of the ablest men in the department, a very able man. It is not a question of Mr. Wright's ability, or his integrity, but if I were the administrator of an estate, I would want the minor heirs repre- rented — I would want some one appointed. Mr. Meritt. As I stated before, the department would interpose no objection to the employment of an Osage attorney, provided both factions will agree on a man and submit the name to the Commis- sioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior in accord- ance with the existing law. but we do oppose this legislation that is submitted here, which enables the mixed-blood Indians, who dominate the council, to employ an attorney to represent their faction out of the tribal funds, against the opposition of the full bloods. The CiTAiRMAX. What have you to say about that? Senator Nugent. Mr. Chairman, I understand that the assistant chief is a full-blood Osage ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Mr. BoNNicASTLE. He is a full-blood Osage. Senator Nugent. He is asking for the enactment of legislation which proposes giving authority to the Osage Tribe to employ an attorney of their own selection. Now, I would like to know whether or not he represents or voices the sentiments of the full bloods on that reservation. .The Chairman. Will you please interrogate him. Senator? Mr. Meritt. Senator, mav I clear that up by asking Mr. Bonnicas- tle to make a statem-cnt to the committee. - I will say further that the assistant chief is more or less dominated by the mixed-blood element, and I would like to ask Mr. Bonnicastle to make a statement to the committee. The Chaikiman. Certainly. Mr. Meritt. Bonnicastle, will you kindly make a statement to the, committee with regard to the views of the full bloods? Mr. Bonnicastle. I had asked permission of the chairman a while ao-o, that I wanted to be heard on this matter of attorneyship regard- ing 'the Osage tribe. 100 INDIAN APPROPRIATION- BILL, 1920. The points I wanted to cover and the things I had in mind have been gone over by Mr. Meritt. ^ I have been living on the reservation since coming out of school, now a little over 15 years, and have been there contmuously since 1903, and I think I understand my people and I understand the situa- tion down there from my own viewpoint. Senator Feenald. Are you a full blood, Mr. Bonnicastlel , Mr. BoNNiCASTUE. Yes, 'sir; I am, and my father and mother both are full bloods ; so I guess I am, surely. There is no trouble whatever in the Osage Tribe, in the Indian Office, and the Interior Department, as to employing an attorney for < the Osage Tribe. I do not see where there is any trouble or where there is any trouble at this time for the trible to employ an attorney. The only trouble that I see there in the tribe is that there are two factions, the mixed-blood element and the full-blood, and part of the full-blood element of the Osage Tribe can not get together on a se- lection of the man they want. That is the only trouble I see ; I can not see anything else. They have the money to pay for an attorney, a stenographer, and office rent ; it can be taken out of the royalties from the oil and gas ; the expenses can be paid and an attorney can be paid out of that, and the only thing about this request, or this bill, whatever it is that has been taken out of the appropriation bill on the point of order is the matter of selection. As I say, the full bloods are opposed to anything that this present council may try to do, because they say that they have no representa- tion on the present council at all; there is nobody on this present council that represents the views of the full-blood part of the Osage Tribe. Senator Geonna. That is the only diiference that I see in the mat- ter of this attorneyship. Mr. Bonnicastle, you are a full-blood Indian, and the assistant chief who has spoken here is a full-blood. Was the selection of the assistant chief satisfactory to the full bloods? Mr. BoNNiCASTtE. No, sir; the selection of the assistant chief, he being a full blood, is not the selection of the full-blood faction, the full-blood element of the tribe. He was selected and placed on that council by the mixed-blood element of that tribe. So there it is; we are divided. I don't see anything in the way of employing an attorney, as long as the tribe gets together and agrees, as a unit, upon one man to represent the tribe as legal adviser. Mr. Meritt. The mixed bloods have a majority of about 100. The Chairman. I see, and they choose these representatives by the vote, or how do they do that? Mr. Meritt. They have a regular election. Senator Fernald. I suppose, Mr. Bonnicastle, if the full bloods would be in the majority, the mixed bloods would be just as much opposed to anyone they select? Mr. Meritt. They have opposed each other, as Senator Curtis knows, for a good many years. He knows more about the two fac- tions fighting one anothet than anybody else I know of on this Indian Committee. INDIAlv" APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 101 Gentlemen, right in this connection, the department has prepared an item of legislation which will tend to straighten this matter out, if we can get it on the Indian bill. Mr. Humphrey. May I ask the committee, there are two full- blood members of the council here and also mixed bloods, and may I ask the committee to allow those gentlemen to speak before Mr. Meritt presents the proposition; it will not take but a second. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, it is interesting to hear these In- dians, but ATe really do not get very much light on the matter. Mr. Humphrey. All I had iii mind. Senator, was as to whether or not the full bloods are in favor of selecting an attorney, that is all, the only proposition I had in mind: Mr. Meritt has stated, and the other witnesses have stated, that there is a division down there. I want to say, if that division has come up, it has come up since two weeks ago to-morrow, when I left. At that time they were united, everybody wanted an attorney, and if any opposition has arisen to it, it has arisen by reason of the large number of Osage Indians being here on a petty proposition before the department, and who do not represent the views of the tribe, as this committee of the council does. Senator Cuetis. In view of what the assistant commissioner says, do you not think that settles the question ? He says he will approve of this thing if they come in with a man satisfactory to both factions. If you put this on the bill, it is legislation and subject to a point of order. Mr. Humphrey. We feel that we ought to have the right to ap- point an attorney to represent the tribe; the commissioner has had that authority for years, and Congress adjourns on the 4th of March. Senator Curtis. We will probably be here again in April and May. ^ Ml. Meritt. This proposed legislation changing the existing law is subject to a point of order, and the department is seriously op- posed to legislation. We are perfectly willing that the Osages have a tribal attorney, provided they can get together, both factions, and submit the name of a reputable attorney. Senator Gronna. Before you do that, may I say a word? The Chairman. Certainly. Senator Geoxna. I suppose the committee knows who Mr. Bon- nicastle is. He is, as Gen. Pratt said the other day, more than an ordinary man. In the first place, he is a graduate of Carlisle; he is one of the men who distinguished himself during the Chinese insurrection: he is one of the men who scaled the walls and did wonderful service, and Gen. Pratt told the subcommittee, which was appointed to go into the question of peyote, that the statements of Mr. Bonnicastle should have great weight— of course, you all know who Gen. Pratt is. ' .The Chaiemax. I am very glad that you have given us this in- formation. . . Senator Gronna. I wanted to give you the information m case the committee did not possess it. 102 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Bonnicastle is a vei^ fine Indian, and anything he may say bears the mark of truth. The legislation that the department would like to have in regard to this matter reads as follows : The Chairman. If you will kindly read it. Mr. Meeitt. The item reads as follows. There shall be held on the first Mondey in .June, nineteen hundred and nine- teen, at Pawhuslva, Oklahoma, a seneral election, at which there shall be elected a principal chief, assistant chief, and eight members of the Osage tribal council : Provided, That the principal chief, assistant chief, and four members of said council shall be full-blood Osage Indians, and four members • shall be mixed-blood Osage Indians by blood, all as indicated on the approved rolls of said tribe, and shall be residents of the Osage Nation. In all cases where there is a tie in the vote of the council members on any matter, the prin- cipal chief, or in his absence the assistant chief, shall have a vote. The officers so elected shall hold office for a term of two years from .July first, nineteen hundred and nineteen, and such officers shall be elected biannually thereafter, , each election to be held under rules and regulations approved by the Secretary of the Interior, and no officers so elected shall enter upon duty until their elec- tion shall have bee]i approved by the Secretary of the Interior. In case of vacancy in the office of principal chief by death, resignation, or othervi'ise, the assistant chief shall succeed to said office, and all vacancies in the Osage tribal council shall be filled in a manner to be prescribed by the council, in accordance with the provisions of this act as to Osage blood, and with the approval of the Secretary of the Interior. The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to remove from the council any member or members thereof for good cause to be by him determined. All acts or parts of acts in conflict herewith are hereby repealed. I may say that Secretary Lane, who has given a great deal of his personal attention to Osage matters, has approved this legislation, and the full bloods of the Osage Reservation are very anxious that this legislation be enacted at this time. STATEMENT OF FEANCES EEVAED, BARTLESVILLE, OKLA. The Chairman; Are you a member of the council of the Osages? Mr. RE^■ARD. Yes, sii-. I want to say that we have a principal chief and five mixed bloods and three full bloods in the council, both elected by the vote of the people, not only by the mixed bloods but also by the full bloods. Quite a number of the full bloods voted for this council, and there has also been a faction among the full bloods to have mixed bloods, and they don't seem to get the idea Senator Nugent. I call for order. The Chairman. Just a moment, please. Gentlemen, come to order. Mr. Eevaed (continuing). I have been among the Indians for 50 years, evei' since they came on the reservation, and it used to be that the Indians elected their chief and their councilmen and put up their proposition before their Congressmen here and asked for whatever they wanted. Now, we come here to ask for an attorney and we do all agree, we want that particularly understood, that the full bloods and mixed bloods want an attorney. We are not divided on that question. The Chaii:man. Do I understand that both the full bloods and mixed bloods do wish an attorney? Mr. Revard. That is the idea of the mixed bloods and the full bloods, we agree on the attorneyship — we want to agree; we want t(? get together and agree. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 103 Heretofore, years ago, the mixed bloods and the full bloods came together and talked over these matters, but of late years they never ^et together and talk these matters over, and the full bloods are a little sore toward the mixed bloods for that reason. They don't seem to understand why we want to get an attorney ; they seem to think that we want to run the matters ourselves, but that is not the idea. We want to get together on all the matters and take it up and agree on it, and we want an attorney to represent us up here in Congress and also in the department ; that is all there is to it. We came up here for that purpose, to make a request to have an attorney for the Osages; we have great matters that may come up hereafter. Senator Kendeick. Have you listened to the reading of that pro- posed plan by the Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs ? That is evidently intended to adjust this and other questions. Did you listen to that reading? Mr, Eevaed. Well, not particularly all of it — ^you mean what Mr. Meritt was just reading? Senator Kendeick. Yes. Mr. Eevaed. That is something similar to what I suggested, that we want to agree on an attorney. Senator Kendeick. And is it your opinion that that plan would help to solve the problem and enable you to agree upon an attorney ? Mr. Ee\abd. A^'ell, we want to appoint an attorney ourselves. We make this suggestion, that we have an attorney before the committee that we want to take up certain matters for us. Senator Kendeick. But you must have some system of action in order to authorize some one to act. Mr. Chandlee. May I answer that question for him ? Senator Kendeick. Mr. Chairman, I am questioning this man. I asked if you understand that in order to make it evident that you have agreed, you must have some system or legalized plan of action ? Mr. Eevaed. Yes, sir ; we want to leave it to our people. Senator Kendeick. Do you not believe that this plan would be a simple and satisfactory method of procedure ? Mr. Eevaed. T do ; yes, sir. Mr. Chandleb. I don't think you understand that method of pro- cedure. It makes a different kind of election. Senator Nugent. Do I understand the witness to say that the method of election outlined by the assistant commissioner is satis- factory to him ? That provides that the election of a principal chief, assistant chief, and eight members of an Osage council be made, with the principal chief, assistant chief and four merabers. full- blood Osage and four members mixed blood, on the council. Mr. Eevaed. No, sir ; I don't agree on that. Senator Nugent. You do not agree, then, that six members of this council should be mixed bloods and four full bloods? Mr. Eevaed. It should be up to the people, by vote, the same as an election in other States in electing their members. Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, may we have an expression, of views from Bacon Bind, who represents the full bloods and who is here. The Chaieman. All right. Chief Bacon Eind. 104 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. STATEMENT OF BACON RIND. The CHAiKaiAX. Do Tou speak English? (The statement of Bacon Eind was made through Arthur Bonni- castle, interpreter. ) The Chairman. Wliere do you live? Bacon Eind. Pawhuska. The Chaikjian. Are you a full blood? Bacon Eind. Yes. sir. The Chairman. Have you any family? Bacon Eind. Yes, sir. « The Chairman. Do you know what this discussion is about? Bacon Eind. Mr. Eed Eagle made a statement and when the in- terpi-eter translated it I understood it. The Chairman. What have you to say about the employment of an attorney on behalf of the Osage Tribe of Indians ? Bacon Eind. As regards the employment of an attorney for the Osage Tribe, I have something to say about that. I am a full-blood Osage Indian and there are lots of my kind down in the Osage country. We have been asking the Indian De- partment here for an attorney for the last six or seven years and haven't got one yet, but the only trouble has been with the depart- ment, the Indian Office, that they want us to employ some reputable man, some man that is capable of taking care of the large interests of the Osage Tribe, and I suppose that he has got to be a mighty big man, so we have not decided yet as to that one big man to take care of our interests. We do want an attorney, and the Osage Tribe, as a tribe, have agreed en the employment of an attorney, to be paid out of the tribal funds, but at the present time, before it is done, I don't want any law passed regarding the appointment of an attorney. We want to wait a while. I have something else that I want to say, that I want to bring up before this committee. The Chairman. Do you wish to tell it now ? Mr. Bacon Eind. Yes ; I want to tell it now. The matter that I have in mind is this : We want a change in the law with respect to our council, as to how the elections should be held. We want a slight change in the present law so that the full bloods can be represented on these councils in the future. We have tried to get together with the mixed bloods in the past. Last year, when we held our election, we tried to work in harmony with them; we invited them to come to our convention, but they, knowing that they outnumbered us, didn't want to harmonize with the full bloods at all ; they didn't want any harmony ; so that the conventions were held separately and pickets put out, and Mr. Eed Eagle here, and another full blood over there, two of them repre-. senting the council, they were placed upon that council by the mixed- blood element of the tribe, while we put up our council, our ticket, which was completely beaten, and that is the reason I say that the full bloods have no representative on this council, and we want a change in that law so that the full bloods can be represented, because they are original owners of that land and of all the properties that are bringing all this amount of money that we are getting. INDIAK APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 105 The Chairman. Are we to understand, then, Mr. Bacon Rind, that you are in favor of this legislation which proposes that the principal chief, the assistant chief, and four members of the council, shall be full-blood Osage Indians? Mr. Bacon Eind. 1 have not finished. Last summer we put in a complaint against the approval of this council. We asked the department not to approve of this present council, for the approval of the election of the present council to represent us, but the elections have been approved. Now, they repre- sent, as I say, the Osage Tribe. Of course, it is. the tribal council, but we have no voice at all in this present council, and that is the reason that we ask for the law to be changed slightly, so as to give us representation in the council. We have filed those complaints and papers of the full bloods in general assembly to Mr. Wright, told him to forward them to the Indian Office so that the Interior Department can be notified, then in turn Congress can be notified of this request for a change in the present law. That is about all I have to say. Mr. Eevaed. I would like to ask Mr. Bacon Rind a question. The Chairmax. All right, Mr. Revard. They didn't appoint only full bloods on their ticket. We put some of the full bloods on our ticket, but they didn't put not one mixed blood on the ticket. I want to ask him'if that isn't the fact? Mr. Bacon Rind. At the time that the convention was called for the election the date was set by the chief at that time for this conven- tion to be held, and he framed up a ticket for the full bloods. I, myself, requested the mixed bloods to come, so that we could all hold ihat convention together on that day set aside for that purpose by the tribal chief at that time, but none of them came. Therefore, we tried to do our best under those circumstances. Mr. Revard. I would like to ask him another question on that, why he asked for the mixed bloods to come with them at their conven- tion, as long as there are two tickets '. There are tw,o sets of elections. We propose to get our own ticket up and they are supposed to get their ticket up. That is the reason we didn't come up with them. Senator McNarv. Mr. Chairman, are we not far afield from the point at issue? I think most all of us will have to go down to the Senate shortly and we will have to adjourn as early as possible. The Chairman. Does anybody else w;int to make a statement, a very short statement ? Mr. Humphrey. I see present two of the representatives of the full bloods, Mr. Francis Claremore and Ben Harrison. I would like to have them state their views very briefly. STATEMENT OF MK. FRANCIS CLAREMORE. I'" The Chairman. What are you, a full blood or mixed blood? Mr. Claremore. A full-blood Osage. The Chairjian. Do you want an attorney employed, and the pay of the attorney taken out of the tribal fund of the Osage? Answer that yes or no. 106 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Clabemore. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Are you satisfied with the present method of electing the principal chief and the assistant chief and the eight members of the council ? Mr. Clarbmore. Yes. The Chairman. You are satisfied with the present method of election, then, are you ? Mr. Claremore. Yes. The Chairman. The department has an item of legislation which will provide for the future, ii passed, that a principal chief and assistant chief and four members of the council shall be full-blood* Osages. Do you want that ? Mr. Claremore. It is agreeable with me. The Chairman. Is there anything else you want to say ? Mr. Clahemooe. I have been elected to the tribal council by the Osage Tribe, so I am a member of the Osage tribal council. We are here to ask this committee to allow us to employ an attor- ney for the Osage Tribe. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, I think that the committee has gotten all the enlightenment on this exceedingly important question that it can have. The Chairman. Yes ; you may be excused ; take your seat. Do you want to discuss this further? Mr. Meeitt. Superintendent W^right is here. ' Senator Curtis. How much longer are you going to take ? Mr. Humphrey. We would like to hear from Mr.' Harrison. The Chairman. No more hearings on this question; we can not spend several hours on the question, important though it is ; we have other things to do. What do you want to do with this item ; do you want to pass on it now or later ? Senator Curtis. I think we ought to take up all these Osage mat- ters later. The Chairman. All right; we will pass them and go to the next item. Senator Walsh. In that case, I should like to ask you to take up the Montana items. The Chairman. All right; we will take up the Montana items. Senator McNary. Before you do that I want to suggest an amend- ment. The Chairman. We can take that up to-morrow. Senator. Now we will take up the Montana items, pages 29 and 30. All the other items are agreed to tentatively except three items on page 30, the irrigation items. irrigation FLATHEAD RESERVATION. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, you will recall that when this matter was before my colleagues I called your attention to the fact that, upon careful consideration, in 1916 the committee and Congress voted to appropriate $750,000 for the irrigation system of the Flat- head Reservation. That appropriation was received in the following year. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 107 The consideration that moved the committee to make so large an ippropriation was that the overhead expense was so very great that t was regarded as a wise economy to make a large appropriation at mce than to drag it over a period of years. Last year, the war necessities being so great, the appropriation was !Ut down to $375,000, and the estimate for the present year was for ;he same amount ; that estimate, of course, was made up in the month )f September, Avhen the war was still on. The committee directed the chairman to communicate with the Sec- retary of the Interior and ask him if he had any further communica- tion to make in reference to this item, in view of the fact that the war das ceased since, and he writes as follows : (The letter referred to is here printed in full, as follows:) Department of the Inteeior, M'ashington, February 10, 1919. My Dear Sekatoi: : 1 have your letter of February 8. Before the war you authorized $750,000 for the Flathead Reservation. This vs'as reduced during the war period. I think it would be wise to return to the old basis, especially IS there Is great need for employing men In Montana, and this work must be done some time, and it had better be done now. Cordially, yours, Franklin K. Lane. Hon. Heney F. Ashurst, Clidinnan Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. Senator McXaey. Pardon me, Senator, but may I ask this ques- tion: Do you mean $750,000? Senator Walsh. Yes. I merely desire to supplement what I said here by referring the chairman to the items which you ha\e seen in the newspapers in the last few dajs. The situation indeed is extremely and exceedingly embarrassing, 5,000 idle men walking the streets of that city, and there is a very large and powerful I. W. W. Senator Feenald. Can this project go on with present prices or is it expected to reduce them to normal conditions, Senator? Senator Walsh-. I can not say. Senator Fernald. They are undertaking in many departments to bolster up the standard of wage, which will not stand washing. I do not understand that this can be done at normal prices. Senator Kexdrick. I was just going to suggest that it is my opin- ion that the question of cost 6f construction and that sort of thing has been less affected in the Western States than it is along the At- lantic, and this work would probably be prosecuted more nearly at the normal cost than it is in either the eastern or western parts of the country, because those territories, I take it, have not been so active!)' employed in the enterprises that have increased wages and the other items" of cost as has been the case along the manuf acturmg Senator Walsh. Before Ave proceed further, Senator, I would like to sav a further word, by way of explanation. You know, Mr. Chairman, that as to copper, m your own State conditions are much the same. , ^ ^-u ^ During the war there was only one purchaser of copper, that was the Government of the United States for itself and for the allies. There was nobody else buying copper. Any enterprise that was 108 INDIAlSr APPROPRIATIOHr Biu:., 1920. likely to consume copper was bound by the War Industries Board, and very properly so, and by the Capital Issues Committee, so that all the ordinary sources of consumption of copper were absolutely shut off because the Government needed every pound that could be produced. Then the armistice came, and the Go-\'ernment not only did not want to buy any more copper, but it had 400,000,,000 pounds of copper on hand to meet the exigencies, which it is prepared to put on the market, and to-day there isn't a market for a pound of copper and won't be until after the lapse of six months or a year after the war, when ordinary development will be restored. • In the meantime they have reduced wages from $5.75 to $4.75 in Butte, and a strike is on. I have a letter from one of the officers of the company to-day who tells me that, so far as the strike is concerned, it is a matter of in- difference to them because they are saving money every day as the strike goes on. But it is a bad thing for the men who want to work for $4.75 a day. However, that is the situation, and if there is an opportunity to get men to do this work now, I think, probably, as Senator Ken- drick states, it could be done at pretty nearly the normal cost. Of course, in all this irrigation work, the labor cost is the great item. Senator McNart. That statement involves this query : Is not the situation in Butte due to differences between employer and employee rather than to unemployment in the circles of labor ? Senator Walsh. No; it is this. Senator: The producers of copper insist that they would rather have the men lay idle because they are piling up the copper, paying interest on the money they have invested and no chance to sell any. They say " It doesn't bother us at all that you strike." The contention is really, you might say of course, the strike, be- cause they insisted upon higher wages. Senator MoNaet. Well, the strike is because the employer insists on reducing wages. Senator Walsh. They insist on reducing wages, yes ; but the strike is a matter of no consequence to him. Senator McNaet. I appreciate that. Senator Walsh. He is perfectly satisfied with that situation. ' Senator McNart. It is not for the purpose of controversy but to clear up the statement that there were 5,000 idle men in Butte that might be employed in this irrigation project. But, Senator Walsh, if the controversy ended, that surplus would not exist — I am asking you if that is not true? Senator Walsh. No; that is not quite true either. Before the strike ends. Senator, they will have shut down a large number of the factories. Senator McNaet. These men are ideal miners, they have followed the mining industry for years and I should think it would be rather strange for them to depart from that and go to digging ditches for irrigation. Senator Walsh. You might think that that is not ]irobable. Sen- ator, but there was a very serious strike here a year ago last summer and you would have been astounded at how many of the men wanted INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 109 be out of the controversy altogether, and, when the summer came, hey left, and when the summer was over they came back in the fall, nd you will find that there were many more men employed. Senator McNaet. What do you estimate the cost of the labor to be lecessary for the construction of this irrigation project? Senator Walsh. I don't know; there is no representative of the leclamation Service here. The Chairman. Senator, I have always been and am now a very itrong advocate and friend of this j)ro'iect. I have listened from rear to ye;\r to arguments for and against the project, and I am very nuch in favor of it. _ I would say further that I would be glad to vote for appropria- iions for double this amount, but the drain on the Treasury during he next year is going to be equally as great as the drain during the Dast year. I would be glad to vote for the $750,000 and may do so, but let me ?all your attention to the fact that there is a Wapato project, found )n page 53. They generally ask for $750,000, and they will ask for m increase, and other irrigation items will ask for an increase, and the first thing you know we will have elevated this appropriation bill it least $500,000 on irrigation alone. Now, can we afford to do it? I repeat, I am a friend to this proj- ect. I think it is a good one; I am a friend to that Wapato project, but will we not imperil the bill; why not stay within our estimates? I am of the opinion that no higher sum should be appropriated than the estimate calls for, simply to save the bill. I think we will run into dilRculties if we exceed our estimates, and if the committee wishes to increase the amount, I shall probably vote to do it, but I think it is perilous to do it. Senator Feexald. It seems to me we ought not to increase that until conditions are a little more normal than they are now. Senator Walsh. Let us take a vote on it. I move that we increase the estimate to $750,000. The Chair jiAN (putting the question). The noes appear to have it. Do you want a roll call? Senator Walsh. No ; let it go. (The motion was not agreed to.) lERIGATIOX SYSTEM, FOET PECK EESEEVATION. The Chaieman. The next item is $100,000, on line 14, for continu- ing the construction, maintenance, and operation of the irrigation systems on the Fort Peck Indian Eeservation in Montana. Mr. Meeitt. AVe have asked for an increase from $50,000 to 5100,000, for the reason that we are going to lease a very large tract )f land on the reservation and we will need the appropriation for ;he construction of laterals under the lease. Senator Cltetis. Have you leased the land? Mr. Meeitt. Contracts are being made now. ' Senator Cuetis. What lease do you get from the Indians, how ong a lease do you make? , , , Mr. Meeitt. It will be for a period of five years and the lessee will evel the land and will give a certain portion of the crops, and will 110 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. also leave part of the land in alfalfa. The Indians will probably get either 7^ or 10 per cent of the crops in addition to the improvements. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, 1 don't know anything about the lease of which Mr. Meritt speaks, but 1 am very glad that they are going to have that policy on the Fort Peck Eeservation. Down in the neighborhood of the Crows, for instance, the whole country knows about irrigation. The Indians, every time they go to Billings or Hardin, the beautiful irrigated fields all around Hardin, they go and can see the benefits of irrigation, but up in the Fort Peck neighborhood there is very little irrigation, it is nearly all dry farm- ing. The Indians there have no means of seeing how it is done. If they lease, a considerable portion of that reservation, undoubt- edly it will be farmed excellently, it will be farmed scientifically, and the irrigation will be performed scientifically — it will be a practical demonstration of farming on the Fort Peck Reservation. Senator Curtis. I think, if the assistant commissioner will give us a written statement, something that we may agree on before the Senate, showing that the land is to be leased, that we ought to give . them the extra amount. The Chaiemak. Yes; that will be agreed to with the understand- ing that you will submit the data, and it will be agreed to at $100,000. Senator Geonxa. That is the same as the House passed? The Chairman. Yes ; it will be agreed to at $100,000. The next item of $50,000, 1 assume there is no objection or discus- sion to be had ; it has been carried from year to year. Now, may we not take up Wyoming ? Mr. Meeitt. There are two more items. Senator. Senator Feenald. Mr. Chairman, I am obliged to leave for the moment, but I will be subject to call. I will leave my vote with Senator McNary. The Chaibman. What is that item that is passed there, line 3, page 31, " The Secretary of the Interior is authorized to withdraw from the Treasury the sum of $150,000 of any tribal funds on deposit to the Crow Indians," etc., $200,000 last year? Mr. Meritt. We ha^'e made splendid use of that appropriation and have placed under cultivation probably 15,000 acres of land on the Crow Reservation which have not been cultivated heretofore. This appropriation will also enable us to get quite a large amount of additional land under cultivation during the next year. The Chaieman. Is there any objection to it? Senator Geonna. Do you want that the same as last time? Mr. Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. Senator Curtis. Do you mean that you will get an additional amount that is under the lease ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. The irrigation project is already con- structed and this appropriation is for the purpose of putting laterals on the land to be cultivated next j'ear. Senator Curtis. For how many acres have you the laterals? Mr. Meritt. Our records show that we have under that project 73,686 acres, 23,846 acres being actually irrigated, and the Indians are cultivating at this time 17,350 acres. Since this statement was prepared, other lands have been prepared for crops. INDIAK APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920. 1] 1 Senator Curtis. You misunderstand me. When this item was up iast year and we gave you $200,000, my recollection is that you as- sured the committee that that $200,000 would put the 27,000 acres that was then under the ditch in shape for leasing. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Now, as I understand it, you have about 23,000 more acres that is under the worlts, but the "laterals have not been built. The question I want answered is this: With this additional $150,000 are you going to put that extra ?3,000 acres that is now under the works in shape for leasing; are you going to prepare it for cultivation? Mr. Meritt. That is our purpose. Senator Curtis. It is under the works now, but I understand not connected up ; is that right ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. And with this exti'a money you can do that ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. I think that ought to be done, Mr. Chairman. The Chairmax. Is there any objection? That will be agreed to at $150,000. Mr. Meritt. The next item is a matter of legislation. I may say, Mr. Chairman, that that legislation passed the Senate and has been pending before the House, and all the Members are in favor of it. The Chairman. Just what does it mean? Senator Walsh. It provides for the pro rating of the land on the reservation among the Indian . The Chairman. And you say it has passed the Senate? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Then it will be agreed to. Senator Curtis. I just want to add — don't you think. Senator Walsh and Mr. Meritt, in line 24, after the word " reservation," that you could make provision there for allotments by the agent to the incompetent and insane? Of course the insane would be in- competent. I wish you would just state that. Mr. Meritt. It is our purpose to do that, Senator. Senator Curtis. I merely wanted to know if you had the au- thority. In looking it over I noticed that there was no provision for allotments to the incompetent and to the insane. Mr. Meritt. We have that authority by legislation. The Chairman. Is there anything further this morning? Senator Gronna. Mr. Chairman, I think it will only take a few minutes, probably 5 or 10 minutes, on North Dakota. |. North Dakota. ¥ support and civilization of the SIOUX OF DEVILS LAKE. The Chairman. On page 36, line 14. support and civilization of :he Sioux, the same as last year, $5,000. Agreed to, in the absence of objection, always. 112 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. SUPPORT AND CIVILIZATION OF THE INDIANS AT FORT BERTHOLD AGENCT. The Chairman. $15,000 last year, $30,000 this year. Senator McNart. What is that for? Mr. Meritt. Onr estimate -^vas for $15,000, and the House added as follows: For huildius: an equipment of an a.nency building on *aid reservation, $10,000; for barns ff>r housing of live stoclv, $5,000— in all, $30,000. The Chairman. The additional $15,000, then, is for the equipment of an agency building, for barns for housing live stock ? Mr. Meritt. I may say, Mr. Chairman, that we did not estimate* for that appropriation ; that we can take care of it out of our general school and 'agency building appropriation, but we have no objection to the item staying in the bill if the committee deems it proper. Senator Curtis. That is, if it is put in here it will be in the spe- cific appropriation, and also the general appropriation ? Mr. Meritt. We will put up the agency building — I am not sure about the barn, but I think we Avill build that, too. Senator Nugent. Would there be a decrease of $15,000 in the general appropriations ? Mr. Meriti'. If it is going to be constructed from the general ap- propriation, we would prefer that this be stricken out and the general appropriation remain as it is. Senator Walsh. It ought not to be provided for in both places. Senator CupvTis. What do you say to striking out the agency build- - ing, and if there is any doubt about the barn, leaving out the barn? Senator Gronna. What page is that in the hearing? Senator Curtis. Page 231 of the hearing. Senator Gronna. Representative Norton is a Member from our State, and he went into this and he is very familiar with conditions at Fort Berthold. May I suggest that we take it out and then take it up in confer- ence? I can not understand you, Mr. Meritt. You say you have other means of taking care of these buildings that are wanted here? Mr. Meeitt. We have a lump-sum appropriation, known as the .school and agency buildings appropriation, which appears in the first part of the bill, and it is our purpose to build an agency build- ing at the Fort Berthold Agency. Senator Walsh. Probably Representative Norton didn't appre- ciate that, and I would suggest, if you let it go out, that you can take it up in conference. Senator Gronna. There will be no question, then, but that the work will be undertaken to put up these buildings ? Mr. Mekitt. I will say positively that we will put up an agency, building, but T haven't looked into the question of a barn. Senator Curtis. Let us strike out the agency building and leave the barn in ; that will make it sure. Senator Gronna. What is the amount? Senator Curtis. $5,000 for the barn. ]Mr. ]Mer]tt. I will gay that the agency building is constructed out of the regular appropriation. Senator Gronna. That would be $20,000, then, instead of $30,000; is that the idea? INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 113 . Senator Curtis. Yes ; reduced from $30,000 to $20,000. Senator Gronna. Why not leave it the way it is here and reduce the general appropriation ? Mr. Meeitt. All right; that will be satisfactory. Senator Geonna. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that you leave the question m as Mr. Norton has proposed it, and that we reduce the amount in the general appropriation $15,000. Senator Nugent. Is there any objection? li not, the suggestion will be adopted. Mr. Meritt. The general appropriation in on page 8. The only objection to that is that next year, when this item comes up, we may have difficulty in. getting it back to $350,000, reducing it $10,000, to $340,000. Senator Curtis. Line 6, Mr. Cnairman, change the amount to $340,000. • Senator Nugent. Then, do I unaerstand that the general appro- priation of $350,000, as appearing on page 8, reduces it to $335,000? Mr. Meritt. $340,000, and leaves the barn in ; they want it. Senator Nugent. That will be a reduction of $15,000, making it $835,000? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Without objection, that item is agreed to — the appropriation be reduced from $350,000 to $335,000, and the item on page 36, beginning on line 17 and ending on line 21, will be agreed to without objection. SUPPORT AND civilization OF TURTLE MOUNTAIN BAND OF CHIPPEWAS. Mr. Meritt'. The next item is satisfactory to the department. Senator Nugent. If there is no objection, it is agreed to. FOR SUPPORT AND EDUCATION OF 12 5 PUPILS AT THE INDIAN SCHOOL, BISMARCK. Senator Gronna. That is the same as the estimate agreed to by the House. Mr. Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. Senator Gronna. I move that be agreed to. The Chairman. Agreed to without objection.. TOE SUPPORT AND EDUCATION OF 4 00 INDIAN PUPILS AT FORT TOTTBN INDIAN SCHOOL, FORT TOTTEN. Mr. Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House on the Fort Totten school. Senator Nugent. That is a reduction of the appropriation last fear? Senator Gronna. Why was that reduction, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. Because there were certain improvements last year ifhicli were not required this year. Senator Gronna. Is that a very important school. Fort Totten ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. 106080—19 8 114 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Nugent. Unless there are objections that will be agreed to, Mr. Mekitt. You will notice that we had a heating plant last year which is not necessary this year. FOR SUPPORT AND EDUCATION OF 200 INDIAN PUPILS AT THE INDIAN SCHOOL, WAHPETON. Mr. Meritt. The next item, the Wahpeton school, we would like to have incorporated in that school, after the figure $6,000, in line 18, the words "for a shop building, $3,000," increasing the total to $55,800. ■ 4 At the time the, estimates were made the country was at war and we did not include in our estimate any buildings, and this building IS very much needed at that school. Senator Gronna is familiar with the needs of the building. Senator Gronna. Yes ; they are very much in need of it. Senator Nugent. Agreed to without objection. ' TRIBAL FUNDS, STANDING ROCK INDIAN RESERVATION. Senator Nugent. The next item is $20,000 out of tribal funds for the construction of roads and bridges within the reservation. Mr. Meritt. That is agreeable to the Indian Office. Senator Nugent. Agreed to without objection. Senator Geonna. While we are on that, I am going to ask the committee to allow an item at the end of the North Dakota items to peiT^it the sale of 2 acres of land for school purposes. I take it there will be no objection on the part of the committee to that. I have a petition signed, I think, by practically every man in the school district, asking that the department be authorized to sell 2 acres of reservation land to the school district for such price as the department may agree upon. Mr. Meiiitt. We have no objection to that item, on condition that vve may^incorporate an amendment which will permit Indian chil- dren to attend that school. Senator Gronna. I have no objection to, that. Senator Curtis. Let the department draw the bill. Senator Gronna. I have introduced a separate bill tp-day, but it was suggested to me that the Indian children should be allowed to attend the school. Of course, I have no objection to that — I want that done. Senator Nugent. Will you present the amendment, then, at the next meeting? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNary. I move that we return to the items on page 47. I think the items have been agreed to by the committee, as I have been informed by some members. Senator Curtis. They were agreed to with this understanding, ii you had no objection or if anyone wanted to suggest any amend- ments. Oregon. Senator McNart. I am satisfied with the items contained in the bill, but I have an amendment here, Mr. Chairman, which I woulc INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 115 like to have the secretary read, introduced at the request of a full- blood Indian named Hood. (The secretary then read the amendment referred to, which is printed in full, as follows:) i That the Secretary of the Interior Is hereby authorized and directed to investigate the claim of Charles S. Hood, a Modoc Indian, for services rendered in securing the restoration and enrollment of the Modoc Indians of ^Oklahoma as members of the Klamath Tribe of Indians of the State of Oregon, and to report to Congress at the next session what amount of money Is equitably due him under the petition of the Modoc Indians, addressed to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, dated September ninth, nineteen hundred and eleven (file number eighty-four thousand tVvo hundred and seventy-six). « Senator McNaey. I would like to complete the record by the sub- mission of a letter and a copy of a petition signed by the Modoc Indians. Senator Nige>'T. Ix there is no objecti'on, it will be so ordered. Senator McNaey. I know nothing about the case. It is in a letter which appears to contain mudh merit, and there is no appropriation except it instructs the Secretary of the Interior to make an investi- gation. (The letter and petition referred to are printed in full, as follows :) Klamath Agency, Oeeg., January 20, 1919. Hon. Charles L. McNaky, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. My Beae Senator: I am inclosing you a proposed amendment which I am asking you to attach to the Indian appropriation bill at this session of Congress, so that the Secretary of the Interior may make a thorough Investigation relative to this affair." I am also inclosing you a petition which was signed by 23 returned Modoc Indians to this agency from Oklahoma, addressed to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, dated September 9, 1911. This petition is the photostat copy of the original, which is on file in the Indian Office. The compensation of fees is due me, under the letters of power of attorney ■which was granted me by the Modoc Indians of Oklahoma, formerly Indian Ter- ritory, dated June 25, 1902. This power of attorney was for the purpose of securing the enrollment of the band of Modocs to the rolls of this agency; For this purpose I made several trips to the city of Washington to procure the nec- essary legislation, also making one trip to this agency for the purpose of secur- ing the views of the Indians of this agency for the probable return of the Modocs to their former home, the Klamath Reservation, in Oregon. This was certainly quite an undertaking, owing to the hostile attitude of all concerned in this matter; also a hardship to me, as it was necessary for me to make a sacrifice of my time in endeavoring to secure the enrollment to the , said rolls. On my first mission to Washington it was necessary for me to for- ' sake my corn crop in obeying the demands of my people. The Modocs at the time the said power of attorney was granted me agreed to "compensate me should we succeed in being restored to the rolls of the Klamath Agency." We finally succeeded in having the legislation enacted, which was approved on March 3, 1909. Upon the enactment of the proper legislation and the restoring of the band of Modocs to the rolls of this agency the petition of September 9, 1911, was drafted by the returned Modocs in appreciation of the services rendered by me in their behalf and to compensate me for the meritorious service that I rendered for them in this tremendous undertaking. I have been unable at this time to secure the affidavit of Mrs. Alice Lawver (who is a white woman), the wife of Chief Tellow Hammer, English name Benjamin Lawver, who was the recognized chief and the spokesman for the Indian Territory band of Modocs, now deceased. Mrs. Lawver was present when the letters of power of attorney was signed by the Modocs delegating me for the said mission, and heard her deceased husband make the statement to compensate me for my services for them. 116 INDIAN APPEOPBIA.TION BILL, 1920. Mrs. Lawver also signed the petition for lier husband (he was living at the time) and for her five children, whose signatures appear on the petition, she attesting to the same as a witness under her own handwriting. I am urging you at this time for the enactment of this suitable legislation at this session of Congress, that I may be fully compensated for all the efforts rendered in behalf of my people, and who so gratefully were willing to compen- sate me, as the petition does verify Itself. Preserve the said petition and, when through, return to me at some future date. With the best of wishes, I am, Ohas. S. Hood. ; Witness : Feed R. Hood. Witness: ' Alice Laweet. Klam-^th Agency, Okeg., t^epteniher 19, 1911.0 Hon. R. G. Valentine, Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. Dear Sir : We the undersigned, returned Modoc Indians of Quapaw Agency, Okla., formerly Indian Territory. In appreciation for the valuable services and efforts rendered for us in our favor and behalf, in establishing' for us our former rights on the rolls of the Klamath Indian Reservation, Oreg. We do earnestly request, petition, and pray you, that you compensate for us. to the said Charles S. Hood, also a returned Modoc Indian, now of Fort Klamath, Oreg. To whom, we granted letters of power of attorney as our legal repre- sentative, bearing the date of June 25, 1902. That you cause to be paid to the said Charles S. Hood for the services rendered for us, 15 per cent from all our funds now placed to our credit in the Treasury of the United States; also, from all our rights and interest to all land that we have already recovered and acquired on the said Klamath Indian Reservation. We are very respectfully, yours, R. W. Hood. Cecil Hood. his Henry X Hudson. j mark her Susan X Hudson. mark Samuel Clinton. BeN. Laweet. Lbla Laweet. Shelby Laweet. • LuscoMBE Laweet. Mabel Laweet. .LuciEL Laweet. Stella Hood Kist. Beet Hood. Amos S. Kist. Witness : her Floeence Clinton. Matilda X Clinton Miller, , mark Minnie S. Robbins. Mamie Burns. HiEAM Bobbins. LuciNDA Hood. Rosa E. Hood Feedeeick Hubbaed. Paul Clinton. ' Clarence Clinton. ,, Last two names signed by Bdson Watson upon request of Samuel Clinton. ' i Senator McNary. Do you see any objection to the amendment? Senator CtJRTis. I do not think a, man ought to come here and get pay for doing something that he never did unless he has performed some services before the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. Senator Spencer. On line 7 I would suggest, after the word " amount " the words " if any " ought to be inserted. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 117 Senator McNary. I will accept that amendment. I do not think that Senator Curtis means to object to a fair investigation being made by the Secretary of the Interior. Senator Cttrtis. Certainly not. Senator McNaby. That is all I care for — I wanted to make that statement. I move that the amendment be agreed to. "Senator Nugent. Without objection the amendment will be agreed to. Senator Spencer. With that insertion ? Senator McNaey. Yes ; I accept the insertion of the words " if any," as suggested by Senator Spencer. Senator Nugent. Is there anything further? Senator McNary. I move that the Oregon items be agreed to. Senator Curtis. They have all been agreed to. Senator Nugent. We will stand adjourned until to-morrow morn- ing at 10.30. (Whereupon, at 1 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned to Thurs- day, February 13, 1919, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. thursday, febrttaby 13, 1919. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Senator Nugent presiding as chairman. The Acting Chairman (Senator Nugent). Senator Jones, do you desire to be heard with respect to any of these matters ? Senator Jones. Yes ; if you please. The Acting Chairman. You may proceed. Washington. WAPATO reservation IRRIGATION SYSTEM. Senator Jones. Mr. Chairman, I have offered an amendment in connection with this reservation — -first, I might ask the committee ; I do not know what action the committee has taken or whether it has taken any action with reference to the items that are in the bills that came over from the House. The Acting Chairman. The Chair is of the opinion that all of the items on page 52 of the committee print have been agreed to, and that the first and second items on page 53 have been agreed to ; that the $500,000 item, with respect to the Wapato Eeservation and the drainage system, was passed; and that the item on page 54 was agreed to. STATEMENT OF SENATOE WESLEY L. JONES. Senator Jones. Mr. Chairman, I do not'' know whether the com- mittee cares to hear from me with reference to that $500,000 item or not. I think the members of the committee who were here re- member fully the controversy over that matter in the last Congress. The Secretary's office recommended $750,000 at that time, and the House passed it for $500,000, and we endeavored to get an increase before this committee to $750,000; but, as I understood it, on ac- count of a sort of general policy adopted by the committee with respect to all these irrigation projects, it cut the item to $250,000, but I think it admitted the importance of it and the high character of this project, and when it went in conference it was agreed to at $500,000. Now, I do not know but what the department estimate for this year — I looked it up one time, but I don't remember now; Mr. Meritt can tell — anyway, the House passed it for $500,000. 119 120 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. The Acting Chairman. The estimate is for $500,000 for this year? Senator Jones. The estimate this vear is for $500,000 and for last year $750,000, and before that the Secretary made a special esti- mate and asked that it be put in a special emergency deficiency ap- propriation bill because of war necessities and th'e importance of it from the food standpoint. With the war practically over, the esti- mate eomes down to $500,000. The Govermnent has spent considerable money on this tract; it has done a great deal of work there; the results, I think, will be found to be much more satisfactory on this project than on any other project in the country, and that is without meaning to dis» parage any other project in the country. The peculiar situation and conditions in connection with this project make it an es])ecially desirable one, and also make it es- pecially desirable that it should be completed just as soon as possible and as* soon as practicable. Every dollar expended here will bring in a very large return to the Government; The canal starts to irrigate land almost immediately from the point of diversion from the main stream; that is a very unusual thing in connection with the construction of irrigation canals, es- pecially large ones, and these cover large tracts of land. This land will not produce anything without irrigation ; the lands that the Indians have, for which water is not available, are lying there idle, and it seems to me that with the plant that the Govern- ment has there, with the organization that it has, and with the facili- ties that it has for carrying on the work, that-it is economical, look- ing at it from that standpoint, that it would be well to appropriate the money just as fast as it can be advantageously used in the de- velopment of this project. I do not know if the committee has any questions to ask with reference to it ; I do not' know of anything else that I can add, but I will be glad to give any information to the committee which they may desire. I have lived within 4 miles of this project for 25 years and know the section thoroughly, and if there is any information that the committee would like, I would be glad to give it. I do think that it would be very unwise, from any standpoint, for the committee to reduce that appropriation to $500,000. The Acting Chairman. Isn't that estimate satisfactory to you? Senator Jones. Why, yes. Of course, I have to depend on the de- partment as to what it thinks it can profitably expend during the year. I want to see that work carried one just as rapidly as possible^ I believe it will be economy to provide for the full completion. I have long before this come to the conclusion that it is a very wasteful way to carry on work by doing it piecemeal, and so, as tlie Secretary submitted an estimate for $500,000, I take it that is all he thinks he can advantageously spend during the next year in the development of the project. However, Mr. Meritt can tell more about that than I can. Mr. Meritt. I wish to say that this is one of the most successful irrigation projects in the United States; we are making a very splen- did showing on that reservation; the project completed will cover IXPIAX APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 121 120,000 acres. AVe have now constructed works on 60,000 acres, and the area actually irrigated is 60,000 acres. The Indians are cultivating at this time 3,747 acres, and the area covered is 7,216 acres ; the area of irrigable land cultivated by white owners is 19,260 acres. You will observe that we are cultivating all of the land that is irrigated under this project, and with this appropriation we can in- crease the irrigated acreage. The cost per acre of construction is only $24, and the estimated value of the land is anywhere from $125 to $200. Senator Curtis. How many acres are you cultivating now alto'- gether? Mr. Meritt. AVe are cultivating all of the land that is under irri- gation, about 60,000 acres. The Acting Chairman. All the land is under cultivation for which water is now available? Mr. Merht. Yes, sir. Senator Jones. That is, for which ditches have been constructed? The Acting Chairman. That is what I mean. Mr. Meritt. We need the full $500,000 estimated by the depart- ment. Senator Fernald. Was this one of the projects held up, Mr. Chair- man? The Acting Chairman. It was passed in order to give Senator Jones an opportunity to appear before the committee. That is agreed to, then, if there is no objection. TOPPENISH AND SIJICOE CREEKS IRRIGATION PROJECT. Senator Jones. Now, then, Mr. Chairman, I have offered an amend- ment in connection v.ith this same reservation for $100,000. That is estimated for by the department for what is known as the Top- penish and Simcoe Creeks irrigation project, Yakima Reservation. Wash. I would like to say this : I had supposed all the time, until this last year, that these lands were embraced within' the Wapato project and their irrigation would be taken care of out of the appropriations we had been making heretofore, and I think that was the general idea until this last year, when it was held, I think by the comptroller, or by others in the department in authority, that the money we were appropriating could not be expended for this purpose because of the terms used in the act referring to the Wapato unit. These Toppenish and Siincoe Creek lands are part of the Indian reservation. They are purchasing the lands embraced within the Wapato project ; they are to be irrigated, however, by water taken from the Toppenish and Simcoe Creeks, and the people there, and I think the department, was very much disappointed last year because they couldn't take this up, because the irrigation of these lands can be ac- complished at an. even less aggregate cost than the other lands of the project. It is estimated that they can reclaim about 12,000 acres for $150,000 — ^that is a little over ten or twelve or fifteen dollars an acre — and I will introduce the amendment in the terms proposed by 122 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1020. the Secretary for $100,000, with the provision that it shall not cos to exceed $150,000, and I take it that there has been a pretty carefu estimate made of the cost. They know the situation mightly well the ditch construction is cotaparatively very easy, and I take it tha they are pretty safe in making this limit, of coursfe, $150,000. This, as I understand, will add, during the coming year — I meai during the next year— at least 8,000 acres additional to the irrigibl land there and we could complete it, then, next year. Now-, I have just a brief statement here ^ The Acting Chairman. Are those lands public lands. Senator? Senator Jones. They are Indian lands, part of the same lands practically the same body of land, but to be irrigated from the Simcoi and Toppenish Reservation. Here is a letter I have from the food preservation committee, fron which I shall read just a brief extract: Insert * * *. Copy not furnished. When they say next season they mean this season, and I think if wi had been able to use any of the money appropriated last year, prob ably 8,000 acres of this land could be made productive this presen year. Of course, none of that money being available, if we could ge money now, that land can be, cultivated next year. Mr. Holt, the project engineer, says this with reference to this land During tlie past five years the irrigated area lias Increased 23 acres (that is referring to the Yakima Indian Reservation.) This increase has been mad' with practically no fund. Senator Curtis. They have over 1,000,000 acres of land in tha reservation, with 3,000 Indians. What arrangements can be mad out of the disposition of any of that land to reimburse this fund- do you know? • Senator Jones. Well, the land, outside of these lands that can bi irrigated, is practically worthless, except the timberland and som land a little farther back in the mountains that can be used for graz ing purposes. The timber has been appraised, and I think that tha timber is worth something over $3,000,000, and I don't see any reasoi why that money could not be used for some purposes. Senator Curtis. Is there any effort being made to sell any of th timber ? Senator Jones. Mr. Meritt can tell you more about that. I do no know of any. Senator Curtis. The Indians themselves have about $40,000 in th Treasury, as I understand. Senator Jones. Mr. Meritt can explain that better than I can. Mr. Meritt. They have $42,000 in the Treasury at this time. Senator Jones. 1 might say this: We passed legislation unde which this timber could be sold — under which the timber was ap praised and under which it can be sold. Senator Curtis. When was that ? Senator Jones. Oh, that was passed 14 or 15 years ago. Senator Curtis. Has anything been done to sell it? I'MDIAK' APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. , 123 Senator Jones. Well, they appraised it; they completed the classi- fication a few years agor-it hasn\ been so very long — and during the war they probably haven't made any attempts to sell it. But, as I say, Mr. Meritt can tell you more about that than I can, because I haven't looked that particular phase of it up for some little time. I may say this, that there has been a railroad built out from Top- penish to White Swan and past there toward the agency and toward the timberland since the appraisement was had, so that transporta- tion facilities are nearer to this land than they were when the bill was passed, but they are not up to date yet. Senator Curtis. How are these Indians doing ; how do they make their living? Senator Jones. Well, I think these Indians do a good deal of sub- irrigation farming; they do hunting, fishing, and oerrying — ^things hke that — and there is an abundance of work during different seasons of the ,year. Many of them go into the hop fields and work there, and they go into the orchards and go into the farming areas. There is no trouble about their getting work down there if they want to do it. However, they are not farming their land very much, because, just as Mr. Holt has said in his report here, there is a great deal of the land, if they put it out to be farmed — I do not know whether they can get a good crop- or not ; if it is extra dry, it is a failure. Lower down there is a good deal of the land that is subirrigated, but the "lands that are contemplated to be reclaimed on this are literallj-, practically worthless without water, and the Indians can not make anything of it, and they have to go elsewhere, working wherever they can get work to do. I think the department is very earnestly in favor of that item. Whether Mr. Meritt has any additional information or not, I don't know. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, I will state that we estimate for the item exactly as the Senator has recommended before the committee, and we are very much in favor of the item. . As stated by Senator Jones, if we can get this appropriation this year, we can place, very soon, quite a large acreage of that land under cultivation. You will note from my statement appearing on page 330 of the House hearings that we can place this land under irrigation for the small sum of $12.50 per acre. The project, which will cost $150,000, will irrigate 12,000 acres. This land is practically valueless now, but with water on the land it will be worth at least $100 an acre. Senator Cueits. Is that allotted land? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; part of it is allotted. I know of no land in the United States so valuf^ble, with such a small appropria,tion, that can be cultivated so quickly. If we can get this appropriation, we can have this entire acreage under cultivation within the next two years. Senator Curtis. Wliat is your plan,- to allot the balance of 12,000 acres? 124 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Meritt. All of the land under this ditch will be allotted ti Indians. The Indians have ample resources to reimburse the Gov ernment. Senator Curtis. That is just the point I was getting at. If yoi allot this land, then the individuals to whom it is allotted will get th^ benefit of what you exi:)ect to pay out of the tribal funds? Mr. Meritt. The individual Indians, however, will ultimately havi to repay the Government. Senator Jones. That is provided in the terms of the amendment Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The total resources of the Indians of tha reservation amount to $16,000,000. The Indians have only $42,001 in the Treasury at this time, but there is no question about the pov ernment being reimbursed. It is a splendid business proposition, an( we can very quickly get the land under cultivation. Senator Curtis. The point I am trying to make is this: If yoi take the most valuable part of the property, or make it the mos valuable, 12,000 acres, by the expenditure of Government money, an( then give that 12,000 acres, or almost, say, to a few thousand Indians the balance of the tribe gets no benefit froiri the expenditure of thi money. Mr. Meritt. We expect to be able to give each Indian on that tl^s ervation an irrigable allotment, and each Indian will be required t( reimburse the Government for the cost of irrigation and construction Senator Curtis. Then, it is your idea to divide the 12,000 acre; among the 3,000 Indians ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; a large number of those Indians have alread; received allotments under the Yakima irrigation project. Senator Jones. Practically every Indian on the Yakima Reserva tion has received his allotment^ every Indian on thsit reservation wil receive an irrigable allotment. Senator Curtis. And no one Indian will have an advantage ove another ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. I was on this reservation a few years age and I have never seen an Indian reservation with brighter prospect than the Yakima Reservation. They raised crops there to the valu of several million dollars last year on that reservation — a ver; remarkable showing. Senator McNart. I move that the committee adopt the amendmeni The Acting Chairman. It is agreed to if there is no objection. prosecution op INDIAN CLAIMS. Senator Jones. Mr. Chairman, there is another amendment that proposed that is simply a bill that we passed last session with refei ence to the claims of the Indians under certain treaties. This bill was considered by the subcommittee very carefully, an they had extensive hearings on it, and when it was reported to th committee I think it was pretty carefully considered by the committe and then reported to the Senate and passed. No action has been gotten in the House as yet, however, althoug I rather think the committee over there has reported it — I think the have reported it, but haven't had an opportunity to bring it up; was in hopes that we would- put that on with this bill; I don't kno' INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 125 whether the general plan of the committee would preclude that or not; if it will not, 1 should be very glad to have it put on; it refers the demands of these Indians to the Court of Claims. I don't think I need go into this ; I think the committee is pretty familiar with it. and I hope you can put it onto the bill in the hope that we can get it agreed to in conference, especially in view of the favorable action by the House committee. I shall not take the time of the committee further on it unless you desire to ask me something further about it. The Acting Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee? Senator Ctjbtis. I think we had better let that go until we have a full committee. We have a policy against putting any of these claims or bills of the Court of Claims on the appropriation bill, Mr. Chairman. The Acting Chairman. The matter will be passed, then, tempo- rarily. Senator Jones. I will not ask the committee to vary its policy with reference to these matters generally in the bill. restrictions against alienation. Now, Mr. Chairman, I have introduced an amendment that I will read. It is short : That the act of the Legislature of the State of Washington entitled "An act relating to the sale of allotted lands by Indians," approved March 13, 1899, found in Session Laws of the State of Washington, 1899, at page' 155, be, and is hereby, in all respects approved, and the consent of Congress is hereby given to all of the provisions of such act. . This is an amendment that is entitled to deal with the question of restrictions against alienation, and it affects a good many of the Indians in Washington, and I want to call your attention to the terms of the patent. The patent says, "Know ye," etc., and then that they grant under, the Insert. * * * Copy not furnished. Now, we have formed a State constitution; our State legislature has passed an act removing these restrictions, and all that this amendment proposes to do is to get the consent of Congress to it. Senator Curtis. What does the act of your legislature provide? Senator Jones. Here it is right, liere ; I will read it, it is short, to permit Indians to sell property. Insert. * * * Copy not furnished. The Acting Chairman. Then, under the terms ofthatxlegislative enactment, these Indiaiis can sell every foot of land that they have? Senator Jones. That is true. The Acting Chairman. There is no reservation for homesteads or anything of that character. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, we are not farovable to that amend- ment. T,T • , T The Acting Chairman. Neither am I. Senator Jones. This act of legislation was passed some twenty and odd years ago; it relates especially to the Indians in western 126 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. Washington, and I want to say, Mr. Chairman, that those Indians, in my judgment, are just as competent to handle their affairs and deal with that property as the average citizen. I had the pleasure of attending a meeting of those Indians a year or two ago ; there were 200 or 300 present; and that audience would compare very favorably with any similar audience of white people in appearance, in dress; and in intelligence. Senator Ctjetis. But this applies to all Indians in the State oi Washington. Senator Jones. Well, it applies to Indians who have The Acting Chairman. Who own any land ? Senator Ctjetis. Why_ don't you introduce this as a separate bill so the committee can look into it and get some facts about it? Senator Jones. Well, there is a gentleman here that I want the committee to hear, who is thoroughly familiar with the situation— the legal situation and the complications that have arisen and are arising. _ ' These Indians, you understand, are citizens, and vote and do everything that citizens can do except handle the property. This gentleman is Mr. Saylor; I have known him for 25 or 30 years, and he is thoroughly familiar with the situation in western Washing- ton and the conditions of these Indians, and especially familiar with the legal phases of the matter and the complications that are apt tc arise with reference to title and with reference to the effect of the patents that the Indians have, and I want to have the committee hear him, and if the committee will give him an opportunity to be heard for awhile, I will be glad to introduce him to the commitee. The Acting Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee?. Senator Jones. I spoke to, the chairman of the committee, I wil] say, several daj'S ago, and advised him that I wanted to have Mr Saylor heard, and I understood that this would be done. The Acting Chairman. How much time does he desire? Senator Jones. I don't know. That probably depends ver^ largely on the questions of the committee to him. Senator Fernald. I move that he have an opportunity 'to b( heard. Senator McNary. I second the motion. The Acting Chairjian. If there is no objection, he may be heard Senator Jones. This is Mr. Saylor, of Seattle, and I will say tha Mr. Bishop, one of the Indians from that reservation, is here today and will answer any questions that the committee might desire t( ask of him. STATEMENT OF ALBERT SAYLOR. The Acting Chairman. Where do you reside? Mr. Satlor. Seattle, Wash. The Acting Chairman. "What is your business; what is you profession ? Mr. Satlor. Attorney. The Acting Chairman. You may proceed. Mr. Satlor. The acts of the legislature can have reference only t those lands that are covered by patents similar to this; those wct issued under treaties made 60 and odd years ago. Ii^'DIAK APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 127 It will be observed that the Senator has read something with re- spect to fee patents ; the title has never passed to the United States. These Indians in Puget Sound, in 1854 or 1855, sold and ceded all right, title, and interest to the land they had in Puget Sound, reserv- ing these lands specifically. There was something like $200,000 paid to the Indians for the cession, in addition to the reservations made in the treaties. Now, it will be observed that the President was authorized that when these Indians shall be permanent residents on the reservation, the President was authorized to issue patents in conformance with article 6 of the treaty with the Omaha Indians, and the lands on these reservations practically have been patented in similar form to the one presented here. The Acting Chairman. As provided by the treaty? Mr. Satlok. As provided by the treaty. Now, the Government did not retain any interest, or never ac- quired any interest, in these lands. It is a part of the consideration for the cession that these lands — it is the Government's . business to allot and to patent; in other words, practically to partition these lands among the Indians. Now, I will read from 175 U. S. [reading same]. Now, we have here the same condition. There is no way by which title can be given in these lands under this decision, ex- cept through Congress and the Legislature of the State of Washing- ton ; you may sell it, but the purchaser is going to get no title. The Acting Chairman. I think the committee understands that now, Mr. Saylor. Mr. Satlor. I have one word more to say as to that proposition. It refers here to the treaties made. As to these Indians, the Sena- tor has told you I have lived in that country, lived in Seattle, for 30 years ; I have lived in Yakima for 10 years, and lived among the Indians practically for the last 30 years. I have conversed with Indians on the various reservations; as an illustration, I was out, I think, some three or four years ago, on one of the reservations, and I took dinner, and, to my great surprise I got as nice a dinner as I would expect to get anywhere in the country. I asked this Indian what privileges he had. " Well," he said, " I am sending my boys down here to the school at Marysville. I have considerable trouble with the Indian Department; they want to have me arrested." He says, " I would rather have my children home here under my supervision, but," he says, " They want them down at the Indian school." He says, " We have seven cows." Here is a man who supports his family and, as I understand it, those Indians practically can not sell or do anything without the consent of the Department of the Interior. They have the right, under the law — all those Indians have the right-^these patentees have the right under the law to have taken a homestead under the act of 1875, which would give them a patent in fee permitting them to alienate their lands five years after the date of the patent. They can take a homestead under the act of July 4, 1884, and get a trust patent which will give them a fee at the end of 25 years. .. They are all citizens. All these Indians that have not taken a homestead can go to the Land OiRce now and qualify as home- 128 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. steaders ; any Indian over 21 years of age, or the head of a family, can go and take a homestead for three years and make proof and alienate his property. Now, these lands are largely covered with timber, and some of the Indians have been farming very successfully, but the Indians that got patents, they probablv never have had a horse or a cow-^ they never had anything to get it with. He can go fishing or he can go and work ; lie can do nothing ; there has nothing been done with these lands ; there are a great many old people ; they can't get a sack of flour on what they own there. They can not be trusted, for the reason that you can not enforce any lien against them. ^ I remember about three years ago I happened to be in the leading hardware store in Bellingham ; there were a number of Indians there who were buying fishing outfits, and so on. I asked the proprietor there ''' for a hundred dollars' worth of stuff that you sell to these Indians, how much more can you get than from white people ? " He looked at me and said, " AVhy, not a dollar." He said, " I want to tell you we have to be more careful with our Indian trade than we do with the white. The Indian Imows better; if you sell him an inferior article it will hurt you much more than if you sell it to a white man."' About the same time, or shortly thereafter, I was at Ebert. I hap- pened to be in the grocery store, and several Indians were trading. I said, " Have you got Indian trade here? " He said, " Yes; I have." I asked him the same question and he answered me just the same as I was answered at Bellingham. He says, to illustrate : " The other day, an Indian came in here and wanted to buy some sugar. He said, ' How much sugar can you get for a dollar'^' I said, '16 pounds, beet sugar.' ' No,' he said, ' I mean cane sugar. Well,' he says, ' up at Marysville they only give you 14 pounds. Put me up a dollar's worth.' " He says, " You can't sell that Indian 15 pounds and 15 ounces for a dollar ; he knows the scale as well as any white man and he watches it just as carefully. That is the condition of these Indians'." You should bear in mind, from my observation — you see, the whites settled there more than 60 years ago, and, contrary to the custom in the eastern country, when we got. to Ohio, we pushed the Indian on and on, way beyond civilization : we couldn't push them any farther. Senator Curtis. They were about as far back as they could go? Mr. Saylor. They are about as far back as they can go. I think, outside of the insurrection in 1855,' it was the only trouble tliat Ave had with the Indians out there — and I think Mr. Bishop will bear me out — and that was squelched largely through the help of the Indians. The remains of Chief Seattle were buried on the very land embraced in this patent and the city of Seattle is named in honor of that Indian. Senator McNary. Did you ever take this matter up with the de- partment and submit this amendment? Mr. Satloe. I don't know Senator McNaey. I am asking you as representing the Indians. Mr. Sayloh. I am not representing the Indians. Senator McNary. Whom do you represent ? Mr. Sayloe. I told the Senator seversil years ago of the condition of these Indians, and he said he realized that something should be IjS^dian jVPpropeiation bill, 1920. 129 , done, and he said, " You come to Washington," he says, " I shall make " an en'ort to get this bill through.'' He says, '• I can brief it for yon." I said, ^' I am not coming to Wasliington for this purpose." " No ; " he says, " but you ai'e likely to be down there " — that was about three or four years ago — and he said, " I want you to appear before the com- mittee because you understand the matter, and I haven't got the time to get the details of the laws and everything bearing on this as you have got it." Senator ^IcXary. I ask you whom you represent ; that is all I want to know. Mr. Saylor. I am here at the request of Senator Jones. The Acting Chairman. How long have you resided here, Mr. Say- lor — in "Washington? Mr. Saylor. Oh, I live in Seattle. The Acting Chairman. You are merely here for this purpose? Mr. Saylor. No; I have some matters pending before the Land Office. Senator Jones. Mr. Chairman, I Avant to state that Mr. Saylor's statement is correct. He is not here specially to look after this mat- ter ; he has other matters, as he says, but I knew of his interest in the Indians and his interest in promoting their welfare, and his knowl- edge of the conditions out there, and I asked him, when he was here, to prepare to appear before the committee, and I have asked him to come before the committee. Mr. Saylor. There is one thing that I am pleading for. I am tak- ing it up now, trying to get to the Secretary of the Interior. The department is now and has for some time been selling Indian homesteads — ^but that is not germane to this, of course — before the expiration of the trust period for which there is absolutely no law. Senator Curtis. Who is doing that? Mr. Saylor. AVell, it is being done by the department. The law of 1884 says that at the end of 25 years they are going- to issue a fee patent to the homesteader or his heirs — in the case of United States against Heckman there were some 30,000 conveyances set aside, because the conveyances were made in violation of the law. It was not a question of inadequate payment, but it was because these conveyances were made in contravention of the law — there were some 30,000 conveyances. Senator Spencer. But that is not being done now, is it? Mr. Saylor. No ; that is not being done now, but there are home- steads being sold — a fee patent is given to the homesteader at the end of 25 years, for which there is no authority. The Acting Chairman. In Washington? Mr. Saylor. Yes, sir. And the trouble you are going to have here, if you sell these lands — I have here a deed selling a certain piece of 1* |)roperty, for which there is no authority, for about $30 an acre, right *'^ across from Seattle — I think it was sold to somebody for $35, prac- tically a private sale. Senator Curtis. It would be a bad idea, would it not, to give that Indian a right to sell? That is what you want to do with this act. Mr. Saylor. The treaty contemplated Senator Curtis. I know; but you told us you knew of a tract of land being sold for $25. Your act would give an Indian an absolute 106080—19—9 130 INDIAK APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. right to sell ; under the act of Congress he can not sell— whoever pur- chased it has no title on earth. It is the duty of the Indian Ottice to see that that land is recovered for the Indians. Mr. Sayix)k. What can the Indian Office do? Senator Curtis. The Indian Office can set aside that deed. Mr. Sayloe. Well, it is sold; it made the sale itself. Senator Curtis. That wouldn't make any difference— you mean the Indian Office made the sale? Mr. Saylor. Yes. Senator Curtis. For $351 Mr. Sayloe. Yes ; and it probably would have sold for $100 aim acre if the general public had known anything of it. j Senator Curtis. It was sold for $35? Senator Curtis. Somebody out there ought to be removed. Mr. Sayloe. Senator, if you will go out around the West, where these fee patents are issued and sales are made, invariably you will find some men are getting very rich — I don't say that it is the Indian agent, but somebody there. Senator Curtis. Well, it couldn't be done if the Indian Office didn't approve of it. Mr. Sayloe. The Indian agent may have a friend at court. Senator Feenald. What is the date of this deed? Mr. Sayloe. The date of it is April 6, 1910. Senator Curtis. Have you the deed there? Mr. Sayloe. Yes. Senator McNaey. That is the deed from the Indian to the white man for $35? Mr. Sayloe. From an Indian to a white person. Senator Spencee. What is the good of the deed if it is against the provision of law? > Mr. Sayloe. That is what I am talking about, there are going to be complications. Senator Spencer. What good is the deed? Mr. Sayloe. I do not know. I have been asked in a number of cases to buy land in cases of that kind, but my advice invariably has been, don't touch it at any price. Senator McNaey. If your amendment is attached and incorporated in the Indian bill it would correct that defect, wouldn't it ? Mr. Sayloe. No. Senator McNaey. Why doesn't it? Mr. Sayloe. Because there is no authority for it; These cases here are all to the same point. One of them refers to the fact that it is not for Congress to construe these things; it is for the courts to construe ; Congress has no constitutional power to construe a treaty. Senator Spencee. You think it is a very poor piece of business, don't you? Mr. Sayloe. I wouldn't give $10 an acre for that deed now. Senator Spencee. You think it is a very poor piece of business to sell that land for $35 an acre, or even attempt to do it, don't you ? Mr. Sayloe. There is this about it ; these Indians Senator Spencee. Answer me; I say you think that is poor busi- ness, that the Indian ought not to have been allowed to sell that land for $35 an acre — am I right in that ? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 131 Mr. Satlor. Yes; of .course you are right, but I don't make any charge against your department down here. Senator Spencer. If that is true, as I understad your bill,- that would enable all the Indians to do, themselves, precisely the same thing. Mr. Saylor. How are we ever going to get this title? Senator McNart. I would like to get an answer to that question. Let us get it cleared up. Senator Spencer. I say this is a very bad piece of business, that that Indian ought not to have been allowed to attempt to sell the land for $35, that it was an inadequate price ; you think it was a bad piece of business, don't you ? Mr. Satlor. Well, it was worse for the white man than for the Indian. Senator Spencer. Exactly, because he had no title. Mr. Satlor. Yes. Senator Spencer. Now, then, if the Indian ought not to have been allowed to sell his land for $35 an acre, then or now, should not only that Indian but all other Indians be allowed to sell their land at any price they can get for it ; which is the purpose of your bill, as I understand it? Mr. Saylor. As far as that is concerned, the average Indian out there knows the price of his land, but this is a woman. But that runs through all our transactions. I have sold properties for a certain price this week that I could have sold for more in a week or so afterwards, as far as that is concerned, but there might come a time under this treaty, when these Indians shall come into their own. You will find that there are Indians out there who are too old to fish ; too old to do anything. Now, we have courts out in that country, and they are not going to let these people be robbed. The Acting Chairman. Let me ask jon a question, Mr. Saylor : I lived in Washington for a time mj^self, and I am quite familiar with the Indians that are generally known as the Siwashes, and I will ask you if you think those Indians are competent to attend to their own affairs, so far as the disposition of their property is con- cerned ? Mr. Satlor. I don't see why not. If they would be competent, as I say, to take a homestead — and everyone is competent to take a homestead now The Acting Chairman. The law gives them that right. Mr. SAYiiOR. Yes; the law gives them that right. Now, you see, this treaty was made over 60 years ago ; made before I was born. The Acting Chairman. Gfrant, for the sake of argument, that those Siwash Indians have a homestead. Do you think they are com- petent to dispose of their homestead at a fair price ? Mr. Sayior. Yes. The Acting Chairman. Why wouldn't they, under the terms of this proposed amendment, be robbed by some unscrupulous white man, precisely as that woman was robbed, to whom you referred as having sold her property for $35 ? Mr. Satlor. That was eight or nine years ago — ^I will not say that that wa6 grossly inadequate ; the chances are that it would have 132 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. brought more money if the general public could have known that these lands could be bought. The Acting Chaikman. I understood you to say that she sold her property for $35 an acre, and that it would have brought at least $100 in the market? Mr. Sayloe. That is my judgment; but I may be mistaken. The Acting Chairman. Well,- she was robbed out of two-thirds of the value of her property then, in your judgment? Dr. Charles A. Eastman. May I say that within two or three weeks there was some property sold for $150, which was originally sold for $35. * Mr. Saylor (continuing) . I talked to the State senator, and I asked him whether he knew of these titles — " Why, no." I told him what it was and he said : " Don't think that anybody is going to get the best of the Indians ;" he says, " I have had a good deal to do with Indians; I have hired them; I have had them do everything and have never seen anyone who was able to get the best of them ; they are just as shrewd and sharp as the a\erage man that goes out tp work." As a matter of right, as a matter of keeping your word with the Indian Senator Curtis. Well, to keep our word with these Indians, that land was allotted to those Indians for the purpose of giving tliem a permanent home, and the treaty so says. Mr. Saylor. Are you going to keep it there forever. Senator ? Senator Ctjrtis. That, is what it says, that it be set apart as a permanent home for these Indians, and it goes on- and provides fur- ther that if any Indian leaves this tract that the President may cancel the patent, or he may be forced back, and the whole idea is embraced in section 5, that it shall be set aside as a permanent home for the Indian and his family. Mr. Saylor. But that doesn't intend that is shall be done forever. If you will read further you will find that it provides that they shall maintain a teacher there, a blacksmith, a carpenter, and a school for a period of 20 years. It provides that there shall come a time when they shall come into the full enjoyment of their property, whenever the State legislature sees fit. Now, the State legislature, in passing this law, well knows that it has to look after and take care of these Indians. Senator Kendrick. May we ask the witness to be as brief as possi- ble, in order that we may get on with this. Mr. Meritt. While they are looking up the law on this subject, may I make a shprt statement to the committee; I think it will save time in regard to this matter? The Acting Chairman. Certainly. Mr. Meeitt. The committee is receiving considerable misinfprma- tion regarding this subject. If this amendment, which has been pro- posed and which is advocated, is included in the Indian appropria- tion bill, it will remove absolutely the restrictions from. all the lands of those Indians, regardless of their degree of blood or th^ degree of competency and without regard to their age. There are a great many Indians in Washington who are old and who are helpless and who are incompetent; there are a large number of full bloods; and INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 133 this legislation, if enacted, would remove absolutely the restrictions of the i ederal Government on that land, and, within 90 days after the enactment of this legislation, half of those Indians would be deprived of their property. ■ Senator Curtis. I thought that the committee had detennined that they ^Youldn't put the item on, but was letting this gentleman be heard because he was here from the State of Washington. Senator Spexcer. That would be subject to a point of order, any- way, would it not ? i Senator Curtis. Oh, yes. Senator Jokes. I want to present to the committee — ^he wants to be heard for just 5 minutes— one of these Indians, Mr. Bishop. The Acting Chairman. If there is no objection, the committee will hear him for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF THOMAS G. BISHOP. The Acting Chairman. Where do you live? Mr. Bishop. Tacoma, Wash. Gentlemen, I was not at all surprised at the stand that the office takes in regard to this bill. They are for the protection of the Indian Office and not for the protection of the Indian — that is true. The Indians that the gentleman refers to are Siwash Indians; it is nothing more nor less than a slur and an in- sinuation upon the illiterate old Indians who, if you look at any race on earth, you will find the same people. They are no worse than others, and that name is nothing but a slur to the Indian, properly speaking. The Indians of the State of Washington, according to .the office of the Indian Commissioner, 82 per cent are taxpayers. If they are taxpayers by their records, surely they are competent. Then, those who they claim are competent, are not able to govern their own affairs, according to the dictates of the Indian Office. If it is so, why don't they give the ones who are competent and have proved their worth, a certificate of competency — ^but they don't do it. Mr. Meritt. I might say that we are sending, now, to the State of Washington, a competency commission to remove the restrictions as to all those Indians who are competent. Mr. Bishop. That is true, Mr. Meritt ; that has been done, but the committee here, or some of the members of the Indian Office are themselves incompetent-^we can prove it by your own work. I can prove that the Indians are competent by the work they do. I make my own living; I support my children; I have two of them in the Army ; and we stand upon our worth anywhere. The Indians in Puget Sound are, a few, very illiterate, but the ones who are to-day the most incompetent are the ones who have been educated, and "of mixed blood, in the Indian schools — that is without a doubt. Thev repudiate their debts. They want to pay their debts, but the Indian Office won't let them; they are taught Everything there but what is right, honest, and just. In regard to the treatment of this bill, I want to say that the Indians themselves have been elevated to a standard a great deal better than some of the people who have come to this country. We have several of them on the boards of education who take an active part ; many of them have their lands; many have money equivalent to the vahie of their lands. 134 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BHIj, 1920. And why do they say they shouldn't have it, when you know that the right way to teacli an Indian the same as anybody else would be to give him his liberty, give him his rights. If you don't givef him a chance, he will never learn. I asked Mr. Saylor to support this bill. We consider Mr. Saylor out in the State of Washington, without doubt, one of the strongest and b^st lawyers out there on land titles. He is a good man at. the desk, but when you get him up here to say anything, you puzzle him, of course; you fire a lot of questions J but you take him on titles to lands — he has been our State land commissioner^ for years, and he thoroughly understands it, and he told us that this is neces- sarj', and I asked him to appear before you and tell you why h^ thinks that this is really necessary — he was before the State Senate in the State of Washington, and he said, for God's sake, try and get us right to the people there. When they said that the Indian Office must have supervision over these people, they did not take care of the old and incompetent. Now, isn't it just as well when they have lands, to let them haT^ it and enjoy the rights and privileges of the land? If the property is sold, aS Mr. Saylor says the property was sold, the Indian who sold it didn't know about it — I will bet $10 to a o-cent cigar that that Indian didn't have anj'thing to do with it, wasn't even apprised of the value of the property. They go to the Indian agent and tell him that they want to sell that property. The agency recommends that it be sold — I won't say anj'thing about the selling, but it is sold without their consent, and in any event they have nothing at all to do with the sale of it. True, it is sold through the Indian Office, but Senator Spenceh. Doesn't he have to sign the deed? Mr. Bishop. Yes. Mr. Satloe. They will sign anything that you put before them. Mr. Meeitt. Let me make a correction right there. We do not sell Indian lands without the consent of the Indians and, what is more, we advertise these lands and do not sell lands at private sale, but we sell them in competition to the highest bidder. All these things about the Indians being cheated through the Indian Bureau are absolutely false and I will be glad to take any specific case that they may bring up here and bring the record be- fore this committee. Senator Kendeick. May I ask the commissioner to give us some . idea as to how the lands are advertised. I happen to know something of it in the West, and I would like to have you explain that in order that the committee may have a better idea of it. Mr. Meeitt. For example, take the Crow Reservation : An Indian may wish to sell a part of his surplus land. He will go to the super- intendent and notify him of that fact. The land will be posted for sale — we post that at the agency office and at other places, and frequently we place ads in the newspapers advising of the sale of this land. _ Then we receive bids on that land and the person offering, the highest bid, provided it equals the appraisement, is awarded the land, and the money is paid to the Indian if he is competent; and if he is not competent it is deposited to his credit and used for his benefit. IXDIAX APPROPRIATIOX BILL, 1920. • 135 Senator Kendbick. Isn't it true, Mr. Commissioner, that it is also the practice of the Indian Office to send out these printed notices to people all over the country and to newspapers, asking that the widest publicity be given to that sale ? Mr. Meeitt. That is true, and on these lands in Washington we have authority under existing law to sell those lands. The legis- lation is found in the act of May 27, 1902, and the act of March 1, 1907. ■ We already have authority to sell those lands, and if any In- dian wants to sell his land we will permit him to do it, but we will see that he gets a fair price for it. Under this proposed legislation, all restrictions would be removed, and the Indians, in a large number of cases, would be robbed of their property. Mr. Bishop. In regard to the advertisement .1 want to say this : There are three places — take, for instance, the Cushman School; they advertise in the school ; they stick up a notice in the post office, and one at the courthouse, and a few minutes after they are put up there they are invariably removed. They have been in some cases. I know this, and I can verify my remarks. Why? It is very easily seen. The Acting Chairman. Do you mean to be undei'stood as saying that those notices are removed by anyone connected with the Gov- ernment ? Mr. Bishop. No ; not with the Government. The Acting Chairman. But by other interested parties ? Mr. Bishop. Apparently. Mr. Meeitt. These notices are also mailed to prospective pur- chasers, so that we will have as wide a publicity as possible, and get as many bidders as possible. It is our purpose to get as high a price as possible for the Indians. Mr. Bishop. There is no need to argue that ; the purpose is all very good, but the thing isn't done. Now, gentlemen, I don't look for you to pass this, according to the feeling here ; the Indian Office seems to be strongly opposed to it ; but we do wish that the Indians be given justice in that respect; that when the title is given the title should be free and correct and good — ■ and my brother tells me that it is not good now, the way it is stated to-day; that many of the properties, the titles are not good. Mr. Saylor tells me the same, and I rely on them to a great extent, and Judge Griffin, too, and if you think the Indians out there are not competent, then you have got another guess coming. There are a few, as I have told you, who are incompetent, but the most of them are of those mixed bloods who have been educated to be incompetent. Senator Spencee. When you said that the Indian would sign any- thing that was given to him at the Indian Office, you referred ap- parently to the incompetents? Mr. Bishop. I don't think I made that remark. Senator Spencee. Well, then, Mr. Saylor said it. Mr. Bishop. Take, for instance, the property of a woman I know, which was appraised at $3,500 ; it was considered worth more, but it was appraised at $3,500. It was sold by the agency ; and when I went over there the old lady asked me if her property was sold. I went to the superintendent and I says, " Give the old lady $10 or $20 a 136 INDIAN APPE0PRI4.TI0N BILL, 1920. month; she needs it''; and it was five months before we coujd get what the property was sold for, and we found that it was sold for $2,250. Senator Spencbe. But she signed the deed, didn't she? Mr. Bishop. She signed it, that it was sold for $1. What does she know about it ? Senator Spencer. Was she a representative Indian ? Mr. Bishop. IS^o ; she is illiterate, an old woman. There is not, in the State of Washington to-day, an Indian under 50 years of age but who can speak the English language about as good as I can. The Acting Chairman. But if the real consideration for that tract. of land had been $1, she would have sold that land for the $1 men- tioned in the deed. Mr. IBiSHOP. She took the word of her friends, and that was all right. The agency said that $1 Avas necessary to make it binding, but that she would get her money. The Acting Chairman. I think we now understand the matter quite fully, unless there is some question. Mr. Satlor. He says that they will issue certificates of com- petency. What effect will that have? Mr. Meeitt. That will remove all restrictions on land and the In- dians may thereafter dispose of this land as they may deem proper. Mr. Saylor. The Indian holds a trust patent, but Ave have a few patents that are held on one condition. I have cases that cover that, and there is nothing that can be done. Mr. Meritt. I am familiar with the decisions that you recite, but they do not apply to this particular case. Now, gentlemen of the committee, I have some legislation here that I have been intending to submit to the committee, and, in view of these statements, it seems to me an opportune time to sumbit this pro- posed legislation. I have drafted this legislation after very careful consideration, and it has been approved by Commissioner Sells and Secretary Lane. I might also say that it has been approved hearitly by all the im- portant employees and officials of the Indian Bureau after years of experience and study of this Indian question. The proposed legislation reads as follows : That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and tion that the item be cut down from $50,000 to $10,000. Senator Spezstcer. Mr. Chairman, under the statement that the department makes it is really impossible to operate successfully a mill for cutting the other timber that is essential for the Indians for their homes. Senator Nelson. There is just one little mill there, and $10,000 will be enough to operate that mill. Senator Spencer. What you want is the preservation of the pine timber ? Senator Nelson. Yes ; and they are not doing it. They are just cleaning out the reservation. I want that forest to remain, and I da not want them to cut anything except what is ready to be cut down. As to this phrase " matured timber," you know they can go into a forest and say " this is a matured tree and it ought to be cut." Well, when a tree gets pretty big it is one sense matured. I want that forest reserved. Senator Spencer. That is the pine forest ? Senator Nelson. That is the pine forest; this land [indicating]. We have it in Minnesota, and I wanted it to be perserved for future generations to see that we once had been a great pine State. I am much obliged to you, gentlemen. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, there is a delegate here from the Eed Lake Reservation, Mr. Peter Graves, whom I would like to have the committee hear. STATEMENT OF PETER GRAVES, RED LAKE R,ESERVATION. The Chairman. You may make a statement regarding this matter, if you wish. Mr. Graves. The Eed Lake Indians believe that they own the tim- ber and they want it turned into cash, and we do not want a forest reserve there. They have, in Minnesota, I believe, 12 or 13 sections. Cass Lake was reserved, I believe, by the Norris act. It is located in the Chippewa Reservation. We believe that as Red Lake IndiaES we should get the proceeds of that timber on Red Lake. We do not want to perpetuate the forest reserve there. TheCHAiRMAN. When was this reservation made, the one you are talking about now ? Senator Nelson stated that he had it made into a forest reserve for the purpose of preserving the timber. When was that made; what act of Congress was it? Mr. Graves. You mean the act that created the Red Lake Forest Reserve ? Mr. Meritt. It was under the act of May 18, 1916. The Chairman. Did the Indians own that land before 1916? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Mr. Graves. There was an act of 1904 negotiated by Mr. Mc- Laughlin with the Red Lake Indians, that the Red Lake Indians were to own that reservation, excluding the other Chippewas, and then this next act was passed creating the Red Lake Forest Reserved The Indians believe to-day that they should get the proceeds of that pine, and they are figuring what they are going to use that fund for.' The last annuity payment is due this next spring, derived from the trealty of 1904, and they want a provision made so they can have a 1920. 16i little moiipy again in the spring of the year while this money will last, and also there is a faction there that wants to use part of the proceeds of this timber to drain that western forest reservation. The western part of the Red Lake Eeservation is not fit now ; there is only just small ridges in it, and that was burned over here about three or four years ago. There was a fire, there that lasted all through the winter in some places. There is a peat bog there, and they started a fire and it burned over that ground. I have never examined the land myself thoroughly, but I Imow what the ridges are. They are nothing but sand and gravel. Senator Spencer. You say the Indians do not want any reserva- tion of the timber? ilr. Grates. No, sir. Senator Ferxald. They would like to have it all cut off i Mr. Graaes. Certainly. Senator Fernald. Why do they want it cut off? Mr. Graces. I will tell you why, because the White Earth Indians have gotten allotments on the timber lands and sold the lands. The other Indians have more or less had pine on their allotments, and they got the proceeds of their allotments of timber. Some of them got as high as $6,000. ' Senator Fernald. And tliey want it all cut? Mr. Graves. Yes, sir; they want to divide the proceeds per capita. They do not want any individual to get more than another. Senator Spe>'cer. Mr. Meritt, did the act of 1916 provide for the reservation of the pine trees — a pine-tree reservation? Mr. Meritt. The act of May 18. 1916, provided for a forest re- serve, but that act contemplated cutting all tliat timber as it became mature and merchantable. Senator Spencer. That is, the preservation of the pine-tree reser- vation was entirely consistent with the cutting of a certain amount of matiired timber ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McXary. Are a'Ou not cutting the timber clear and cle; m as you go ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator McNarv. You are skipping around, cutting matured trees here and there ? ■ Mr. Meritt. We are cutting the mercliantable timber within a given area. Senator McNary. Are you skipping any of the timber or clearing it clean as you go ? Mr. Meritt. We are cutting all the timber that is merchantable. We are not cutting any saplings. Senator McNary. Is it not damaged very greatly by the fellmg of large trees ? . ^ . , . Mr. Meritt. Under our regulations they are required to cut timber so that the young trees will not be damaged any more than is aecessarj'. L Senator McNary. What per cent is matured i ' Mr. Meritt. On some of that land quite a large part of the timber is matured. , . .. , „ » ^- „ **■ Senator McNary. You do nothing in the way ot reiorestation « ? 106080—19 ^11 162 INDIAIT APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Meeitt. Not very much as yet. Senator Cttktis. The act that was known as the Norris Act pro- vided for saving timber up there, did it not ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Cuetis. Saving timber for the future. Senator Spencee. Have you had an estimate of the amount of timber on that reservation? Mr. Meeitt. There are about 100,000,000 feet of timber that is merchantable timber. Senator Spencee. How much of it are you cutting this year? Mr. Meeitt. We have a contract to cut 80,000,000 feet of timber. That contract covers a period of years. It will be impossible for them to cut that much timber. Senator McXaey. That will clean off the timber in eight years. Mr. Meeitt. Within 8 or 10 years we will have most of the mer- chantable timber cut off. Senator Spencee. How will the pine reservation be preserved under the act of May, 1916, if you cut 80,000,000 of the 100,000,000-? ' Mr. Meeitt. We will preserve the young trees, and in 20 or 30 years the trees will become merchantable timber. Senator Spencee. Why would not -Senator Nelson's point be sub- served if we inserted the amendment ? In cutting timber care should be taken to preserve your reservation of pine timber as contemplated by the act of May 19, 1916. i' Mr. Meeitt. We have no objection to that amendment. Senator Nugent. Do I understand that thfe sawmill that is oper- ated by the Government on that reservation cuts sufficient timber to meet the wants of the Indians for lumber ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. And the International Lumber Co. mill is cut- ting the remainder of the timber as a business proposition? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. You have 100,000,000 feet there? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. And do you say that they are cutting 80,000,000 feet a year? Mr. Meeitt. No. sir; we have a contract with the International Lumber Co. to cut 80,000,000 feet over a period of years. Senator Spencee. How many years would that be? Mr. Meeitt. About six years. Senator Nugent. Does that company go through this forest and cut down a tree here and there and log them out or do they cut every- thing as they go? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; we supervise the cutting of the timber, That is one reason why we need this appropriation, so that we can see that the timber is properly cut, and also see that the timber cut is properly scaled, and .that the Red Lake Indians will get the full value of their timber. Senator Nugent. Have you been on that reservation yourself re- cently ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Nugent. You heard Senator Nelson's statement to the effect that they are simply skinning the whole thing, cutting iis they go? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 163 Mr. Mebitt. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. You could not do it otherwise under that tim- ber situation ? _ Senator Nttgent. I do not see how you could. I come from a iimber State myself. Senator Feenald. This gentleman says it is the purpose to clean it out. Mr. Graves. It is our timber and we want to use the proceeds. Senator Nugent., It all resolves itself to this proposition, • in my apinion, as to whether or not you desire to save the timber on this reservation, in accordance with the act of Congress, or whether or not you want to cut it off. Mr. Mebitt. We are cutting it in accordance with the act of Congress. Senator Nugent. Certainly there will be no timber left there in !i few years at the rate you are cutting it now. Mr. Meeitt. Here is the section in that act relating to the admin- istration of the forests : Tlip.l- said forest sball Iie administered liy the Secretiiry of tlie Interior in iccordance with tiie principles of scientific forestry, \Yith a view to the pro- inction of successive timber crops thereon, and he is liereby authorized to sell and manufacture only such standing and growing pine and oak timber as is nature and has ceased to grow, and he is also authorized to sell and manu- facture from time to time such other mature and marketable timber as he nay deem advisable, and he is further authorized to construct and operate sawmills for the manufacture of the timber into merchantable products and :o employ such persons as he shall find necessary to carry out the purposes )f the foregoing provisions, including the establishment of nurseries and the purchase of seeds, seedlings, and transplants when needed for reforestration purposes : Provided, That all tin;lier sold under the provisions herein shall be iold on what is known as the bank scale : Provided further. That no contract ihall be made for the establishment of any mill, or to carry on any logging )r lumbering operations which shall constitute a charge upon the proceeds of :he timber, until an estimate of the cost thereof shall have first been submit- :ed to and approved by Congress. We are carrying out that provision of the law. Senator McNaey. You are cutting it off clean as you go ; you could lot do it otherwise. I happen to know that and you do not. Mr. Mebitt. We are cutting the mercliantable timber. Senator McNaey. That is all the timber except small saplings hat would not be worth anything other than for telegraph poles md things of that kind, and it is absurd to say that in 20 years he trees will be suitable for merchantable timber. They would Qake slab wood or telegraph poles, and nothing but that. Mr. Mebitt. I am speaking about the young trees alrec6dy 10 years ild. .Senator McNaey. They would be good for Christmas trees ; I will dmit that. Senator Fernald. I assume that it is a very good thing to have his little mill established there to saw timber that may be needed or the Indians, and ns to this timber that may be blown down and an be used to grod advantage, they ought to have a little mill for lat purpose. But I agree absolutely witli Senator Nelson that ouo-ht not to be all cut off at this time, but that it should be reserved and that $10,000 is sufficient to keep this little mill run^ ing. A 'mill that will saw from 8,000 to 10,000 feet a day can 164 INDIAN APPROPRIATION , BILL, 1920. be run 12 months in the year for $10,000. Of course, I am interests in mills, as my State is the Pine Tree State. As the Senator has said in -20 years no saplings Avill become matured and suitable for cut ting. It takes 40 years, and it is, just as the Senatqr has said, i question of whether we want to preserve that forest or slash it down It would seem to me that Senator Nelson's suggestion is a ven proper one. I make a motion, Mr. Chairman, that the appropriatioi be cut down to $10,000. The Chairman. The question is on the motion of the Senator fron Maine. Senator McNart. I would like to have that act read, creating tliii forest. ' Mr. Meeitt. I have the whole act here and will read it. It is as follows : To carry into effect the act entitled "An act for the relief and civilizatiou o] the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota, approved January fourteenth eighteen hundred and eighty-nine, to provide for the establishment and adminis tration of a forest reserve and for the sale of timber within the Red Lake Indiai Reservation, Minnesota," that the following-described lands within the Eec Lake Indian Reservation, aiinnesota, be, and the same hereby are, created intc a forest reserve, to be known as tlje Red Lake Indian Forest : Townships one hundred and fifty and one hundred and fifty-one north, ranges thirty-two, thirty- three, thirty-four, thirty-five, and thirty -six west, and townships one hundred and fifty-two and one hundred and fifty-three north, ranges thirty-two, thirty- three, and thirty-four west of the fifth principal meridian, except the lands in township one hundred and fifty-one north, range thirty-six west, which lie north of the north line of sections twenty-six to thirty, inclusive, and except'all lands within sections four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and eighteen, in township one hundred and fifty-three north, range thirty-four west. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any lands which have heretofore been reserved for school, agency, church, or town-site purposes or granted to private parties or ' corporations within the area described, nor to the town site of Red Lake, for the creation of which provision is made herein : Provided, That when any of said lands are no longer needed for the purpose for which they are reserved the Secretary of the Interior may declare such lands to be a part of the Red Lake Indian Forest. That lands within said Red Lake Indian Forest, which are not covered with standing and growing merchantable pine timber and Yliich are suited for the production of agricultural crops and which are fronting upon a lake shore, may be allotted to Individual Red Lake Indians : Provided, That no such allotment shall exceed eighty acres nor have more than eighty rods fronting upon a lake shore: Provided furthei', That in case an Indian has improved and cultivated more than eighty acres his allotment may embrace his improvement to the extent of one hundred and sixty acres. That said forest shall be administered by the Secretary of the Interior in accordance with the principles of scientific forestry, with a view to the produc- tion of successive timber crops thereon, and he is hereby authorized to sell and manufacture only such standing and growing pine and oak timber as is mature and has ceased to grow, and he is also authorized to sell and manufacture from time to time such other mature and marketable timber as he maj' deem advis- able, and he is further authorized to construct and operate sawmills for the manufacture of the timber into merchantable products and to employ such per- sons as he shall find necessary to carry out the purposes of the foregoing provi- sions, including the establishment of nurseries and the purchase of seeds, seed- lings, and transplants when needed for reforestation purposes: Provided, That all timber sold under the provisions herein shall be sold on what is known as the bank se&le : Provided further. That no contract shall be made for the estab- lishment of any mill, or to carry on any logging or lumbering operations which shall constitute a charge upon the proceeds of the timber, until an estimate o£ the cost thereof shall have first been submitted to and approved by Congress, That the Secretary of the Interior may issue permits or grant leases on such lands for camping or farming. No permit shall be issued for a longer term than one year, and no lease shall be executed for a longer tei-m than five years. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 165 Every permit or lease issunl under authority of tliis act to Indians, or to other persons or corporations, and every patent for an allotment within the limits of the forest created by section one, sliall reserve to the United States the right to cross the land covered thereby with logging roads or railroads, to use the shore line, 0¥ to erect thereon and use such structures as shall be necessarv to the proper and economical management of the Indian forest created by thisact, and the Secretary of the Interior may reserve from allotment tracts considered necessary for such administration. After the.pnyment of all expenses connected with th? administration of these Ipnds as herein provided, the net proceeds therefrom shall be cowi-ed into the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the Red Lake Indians and draw interest at the rate of four per centum per annum. The interest on this fund may be used by the Secretary of the Interior in such manner as he shall con- sider most advantageous and beneficial to the Red Lake Indians. Expenditure from the principal shall be made only after the approval by Congress of esti- mates submitted by the said Secretary. That the Secretary of the Interior shall select and set apart an area not exceeding two hundred acres, in sections twenty, twenty-one, twenty-eight, and twenty-nine, township one hundred and fifty-one north, range thirty-four west, cause the lands thus selected to be surveyed and platted into suitable lots, streets, and alleys, and dedicate said streets and alleys and such lots and parcels as he may consider necessary to public uses. The lands thus selected shall not be allotted, but held as an Indian town site subject to further legislation by Congress. That the timber on lands of the Red Lake Indian Reservation outside the boundaries of the forest created by this act. may be sold under regulations pre- scribed by the Secretary of the Interior, and the proceeds administered under the provisions of the general deficiency act of March third, eighteen hundred and eighty-three (Twenty-second Statutes at Large, page five hundred and ninety), and the Indian appropriation act of March second, eighteen hundred and eighty-seven ( Twenty -jCourth Statutes at Large, page four hundred and sixty-three). Mr. Meeitt. That is the end of the act. Now, it would require probably $10,000 to conduct this sawmill — the Government sawmill — on the reservation and furnish lumber to the Indians for homes and barns and all other domestic purposes. Senator Spencer. It will require as much as $10,000? Mr. Mehitt. It will require practically $10,000. That would not give us any money at all to supervise the sale of this timber and see that it is cut properly and also to see that it is scaled properly. The Indians would suffer very great loss in the scaling of this timber if we could not get a reasonable appropriation for this work. Now, we realize that it is the desire of the committee to make these appropriations as small as possible, and in order to meet that desire we will be satisfied with an appropriation of $40,000 on that reserva- tion, but we will need a considerable amount of money to protect the interests of these Indians in seeing that the timber is properly scaled. It is a very large proposition, and this timber should be checked up very carefully. Senator McNaey. Where do you scale ; in the forest or at the saw- mill? Mr. Meeitt. We scale it in the forest. Senator McNaet. You will cut 800,000 feet a year; it would be tJiat much a year ? . Senator Spencee. They are to cut 80,000,000 feet, or one-sixth of it, over a period of years, so he says. Senator McNabt. That is 14,000,000 or 15,000,000 feet. How much appropriation would it take to scale that timber ? Mr. Meritt. We supervise the cutting. 166 INDIAN. APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator McNaey. You are not picking out a, tree here and a tree there from your own testimony. You are cutting it as you go i Mr. Meeitt. We are cutting the merchantable timber. Senator McNart. That is the matured and ripe timber? Mr. Meeitt. We are not cutting the young timber. Senator McNaey. I understand that— that is the saphngs, of course; Christmas trees. The rest is what you call the matured timber. Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; there is considerable timber that is being reserved because it is not yet matured. We are complying with the act of Congress on that subject, and^ it is necessary to have them se§ that it is done. Senator Feenald. It seems to me that $40,000 for the supervision of a $10,000 project is a good deal of money. It will cost about $10,000 to carry on this mill and do the business. Mr. Meeitt. Let me make that clear to you. We are not asking for $40,000 for the supervisory work of a $10,000 mill. We are ask- ing for $10,000 to conduct this small Government mill to cut the timber for the Red Lake Indians. In addition to that, we are asking for money to supervise the sale of this 80,000,000 feet of timber to the International Lumber Co. The two projects are entirely separate and distinct, and I hope I have made myself clear upon that point. Senator McNaey. I appreciate that, but as you know the scaling of timber is a very simple piece of work. It is scaled in the. field. One man can scale all he cuts. If it is scaled'in the field it only takes a half a man, with most timbei'., I would scale the timber under a contract for $1,000 a year. Mr. Meeitt. But the timber is cut and scaled on the reservation and shipped to a mill 100 miles from the reservation. Senator McNaey. What has that got to do with scaling ? Mr, Meeitt. We have that Scaled on the reservation. Senator McNaey. But one man can do that. He can keep up with all the men who are at work in the forest. Mr. Meeitt. But they are cutting over a large area at once. Sena- tor. I have explained this matter to the committee, and there is a Red Lake delegate here who is urging that this timber be cut, and that the interests of these Indians be protected. We will try to get along with the reduction. Senator Feenald. Do you think it is protecting the interests of the Indians to cut that timber all within a few years and not have any forest there; when they want some lumber to build houses and barns in the future, and the timber is all gone, is that protecting the Indians? Mr. Meeitt. We are saving a forest reserve out side of this timber sale. Senator Feenald. You are saving the saplings, you say ? Mr. Meeitt. In addition to that we have a tract of timber that is not covered by this contract. Senator Spencee. How does the cutting of the appropriation pre- serve the reserve at all? Suppose you cut out the appropriation en- tirely, they could still go on cutting the timber and piling up money. It does not limit the cutting of the timber at all. Mr. Meeitt. We have authority INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 167 ■ Senator Spencer. Cutting it does not preserve the reserve in tlie least, does it? I think the reserve ought to be preserved. . Senator Nugent. It appears to me, Mr. Chairman, that the posi- tion taken by Senator Nelson is in many respects one of sentiment. He evidently has devoted a great deal of time and attention to the establishment of this reserve and the preservation of this pine forest for -sentimental reasons. It strikes me that the matter for the primary consideration of this committee is the best interests of tliese Indians, but I am very strongly inclined to the opinion that this International Lumber Co. is not, as a matter of fact, interested in its preservation. They are engaged in an extensive operation; they are evidently not going here and there on that reservation taking a tree that is matured and ready to be cut, because that is not a business proposition. They could "not do that, and I am quite strongly inclined to the opinion that if you investigate this matter and examine into it carefully you will "find that in quite a lai-ge measure they are cutting everything they can. Mr. Meritt. We are cutting the merchantable timber, as I have said. Senator Spencer. Is not the preservation of that forest reserve a matter of law as well as of sentiment ? Senator Ntgent. No: I understanding from the wording of that act that the Secretary of the Interior has the right to make dispo- sition of all merchantable timber on that reservation. It is a ques- tion, as to whether anything is being taken except the 'merchantable timber. Take one of these timber companies, foi' example. They are engaged in extensive operations; they are logging roi'ds; they must have the means of transporting this timber, either to some creek or some railroad, or something of that character, and they can not build a road of that description whether it is some logging road or whether it is a railroad, by taking a tree here and another tree there, and a trfee some place else, leaving all the others stand- ing. They do not do that in my country, and I am very strongly inclined to the opinion that if Mr. Meritt will make a personal in- vestigation he will find the same state of facts existing upon this reservation. They are cutting practically everything as they go, in all human probability, except these poles that Senator McNary speaks about — these saplings that are good for Christmas trees or something of that character. Senator Spencer. And that reserve is thereby being destroyed. Senator NtroENT. I have no doubt about it at all. Mr. Meritt. We have a large contract for timber there that is not included in this contract. Senator Nugent. But it appears to me that as far as Senator Nelson's proposition is concerned it is largely a matter of sentiment, and it is a matter for this committee to determine what is for the best interest of these Indians, whether it is advisable to go ahead and cut all the timber— and it will all be cut in all human probability in 8 or 10 years. . ■, -, ^ „ Senator Fernauj. The forest will be entirely destroyed. Senator Nugent. I have no doubt about that; either that or whether it is advisable to let these Indians themselves, or people under the direction of the Interior Department, cut these trees here ajid there and at other places that are, as a matter of fact, matured, 168 I^'DIAiSr APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920., and manufacture them into lumber at the Government sawmills and dispose of that timber and save the remainder of this forest, which, in all human probability will be far more valuable a;t the expiration of 20 years than it is to-day. Senator Spencer. I believe the preservation of the forest is as . material as anything else. Senator Jones of New Mexico. It strikes me from a reading of that act that while Senator Nelson may have had in mind the preservation of the primeval forest up there, that Congress did not embody it in that : legislation. That act of Congress strikes as meaning that the matured timber shall be cut and that the foresl* shall be conducted so as to get the revenue from it and keep it a reproducing tract of land. Now, that certainly does not contemplate the preservation of the primeval foi^est. Here is a contract already made for this 80,000,000 feet. Admittedly it is made within the language of the statute. Now that contract will have to be carried out. Are there any other contracts in contemplation, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Jones of New Mexico. So it is a question with us as to whether we should permit the Indian Bureau to carry out the con- tract already made. It seems to me the question for us to consider is the cost of carrying out that contract. There are two things to be done — operate a saw mill for the benefit of the Indians to furnish them with lumber — and it seems to be agreed that $10,000 is ample for that. Now the question is how much money is necess3,ry to supervise the carrying out of that other timber contract? From Senator Mc- Nary's statement it seems to me it can be done for very much less thaii $40,000 a year. Senator McNary. I would like to have the contract for $10,000. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Is this money, Mr. Meritt, to be used for any other purpose? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Do you spend $-10,000 a year in supervising that 80,000 ,000^foot contract? Mr. Meritt. The superintendent has estimated that that amount would be required in the next year, but we want this amount cut down to the very minimum, and if the committee thinks that $40,000 is too much Ave will try to get along with whatever amount the com- mittee decides to give us. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Have you a statement of the num- ber of employees which require this $40,000 a year? Mr. Meritt. I have no statement before me, but the information may be in the office. Senator Jones of New Mexico. If I understand it, here is $40,000 to be used only for the purpose of employing people to pick out the merchantable timber and scale that timber. Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, may I make the suggestion that we hear Senator Sterling at this time? There is a matter that he desires to be heard upon. We can tlien let Mr. Meritt furnish us this afternoon, or at the next meeting, a statement as to the amount of money expended for these various purposes, and then we will have definite information upon which to act. Mr. Meritt. The information requested is as follows: The Indian appi-opriation iict approved May 2ri, 19]8 (public 159, p. 12), in- cludes an ilem of $?0,000 for the carrying out of the act of Hay 18, 191G (39 IKDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 169 Stat. L^137), and for the logging, booming, towing, and manufactjire of lumliei- at tne Ked Lake Agency sawmill. Tliis appropriation was to cover all expendi- tures under a large sale of timber from the Red Lake forests to the Interna- tional Lumber Co. and also the cost of logging burned timber outside the said sale area. This act authorized tlie reimbursement of " Indian moneys, proceeds of labor. Bed Lake Indians," in an amount of $15,000 for expenditures previously made. Tlie. superintendent of the Red Lake Reservation reports that $14,976.o2 had been expended from " Proceeds of labor " prior to the date of the act of Jlay 25, 1918. He also reports sales and issues of lumber during the past year to the amount of $16,749.55. It is the purpose of the Indian Service to furnish lum- ber to Indians practically at cost for their own use. The Chairsian. Very well. We will suspend temporarily upon this matter and hear Senator Sterling. As to the balance of the $80,000, or $65,000, the following expenditures have been made to .January 1, 1919: Salaries and wages .$11,943.92 Travel expenses, subsisttjnce, forage, fuel, and equipment and in- crease compensation 5, 366. 23 Total 17, 310. 15 There is now on hand the following: Lumber from logs cut in 1917-18, valued at cost $2, 297. 68 Logs cut winter of 1917-18, valued at cost, 1,087,840 feet now in lake_ 9, 991. 63 Equipment for logging, etc 1, 433. 71 Subsistence and forage on hand, estimated 1, 500. 00 Logs, cut 1918-19, now skidded or banked, at cost 8, 750. 00 Total 23, 973. 02 It is estimated that it will cost $7 per thousand to cut the 1,000000 feet of burned timber still standing. Total at cost $7, 000. 00 Booming and towing to mill (2,400,000 feet) 2,400.00 Sawing, estimated , 5, 000. 00 Total 14, 400. 00 Cutting tops, etc., into wood 3,000.00 17, 400. 00 Thus, approximately $50,000 of the total appropriation will be needed to carry the burned timber logging to the end of the fiscal year' 1919. Entirely separate from this logging operation are the expenditures for scalers and other expenses connected with the sale of timber to the International Lumber Co. Under this sale, nearly 20,000 000 feet have been cut and paid for. Salaries of scalers in the amount of $9,600 have been authorized for this work during the fiscal year 1919. Because of tlie unusual conditions in tlie lab(M- market and the consequent reduction in lumber operations, it is probable that there will be a saving of approximately $15,000 of the $80,000 appropriated. South Dakota. artesian weix, indian school at tierre. STATEMENT OF SENATOR THOMAS STERLING, OF SOUTH DAKOTA. Senator Sterling. Mr. Chairman, I desire to be heard for a few moments with respect to the item contained in the second para- graph on page 48, which is as follows : For support and education of 250 Indian pupils at the Indian School at ■Pierre S Dak , including pay of superintendent, $58,2.50 ; for general repairs and iniprovenients, $6,000; in all, .$64,250. 170 INDIAN APPKOrEIATION BILL, 1920. The amendment to be suggested would perhaps come in at line 9 after the figures " $6,000," and would be " for repairing of artesian well, $10,000." Senator Fernald. It reads, " in all, $64,250." Does it apply to that? • Senator Sterling. No, sir; that would have to be increased to cor- respond. It would then read, " in all, $74,250." The Chairman. What is the nature of the repairs that are -neces- sary? Senator Sterling. The repairs necessary would be the sinking of a 13-inch casing outside of the present casing of the well. It ig really an emergency. The well is a water and gas well. They use the gas for the purpose of heating the buildings, and, of course, it re- sults in a great saving of fuel. It is free gas, really. The Chairman. It comes out of the same pipe? Senator Steeling. Out. of the same pipe;, yes. Containers are built for the purpose of collecting the gas from the water as it comes up from this artesian well. Two containers have been built at dif- ferent times, one a great many years ago at the cost of about $1,000 and then one later at the cost of about $3,000 — an additional con- tainer. Senator Curtis. What is the gas flow ? Senator Steeling. I do not know what the gas flow is, but I know that it supplies the greater part of the need for heating the "school- Senator Curtis. It is sufficient for that, is it ? Senator Sterling. I think so. Senator Fernald. The gas that j^ou get from this water pipe? Senator Sterling. Yes; and during the last two or three years the water has been breaking loose and coming up on the outside of the pipe. They have tried very hard to repair it, but all work in that respect has just been temporary. The Chairman. You have a letter from the department, I under- stand, saying they can put the pipe down for $10,000? Senator Sterling. I have a letter from the department containing copy of a letter from Superintendent Crandall. The Chairman. Do you wish to put that in the record? Senator Sterling. Yes, I would like to have that go in the record. (The letters referred to are here printed in full as follows:) Department of the Intekioe, United States Indian Service, PiEBKE Indian School, Pierre, S. Dak., February 7, 191S. Senator Thomas Sterling, Washington, D. C. My Dear Senator: I am inclosing herewith copy of a letter to the Commis- sioner of Indian Aftairs which sets forth the clanger we are in of losing our artesian well. I have written to Royal C. Johnson and I am writing to you, and if the Indian bill has not gone too far I am in hopes to get a clause eithei in the Senate or House carrying an appropriation of $10,000 to repair this well. It must be done at an fearly date or the Government, and particularly the Pierre Indian School, will be the loser. If it would be possible to have a suitable appropriation made, and made immediately available, it would permit us to begin the work in the spring. It will take several months to do the work There is considerable preliminary work that must be done in the way of let ting contract, securing workmen, and shipping in the well drilling outfit ; there fore, the importance of early action. INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 171 Not only myself, but the entire city of Pierre will feel very grateful if you can do anything to help us get funds to make the necessary repairs. I am, yours, very truly, C. J. Crandall, Superintendent . PiEKKE Indian School, Pierre. .S. Dak., February 7, 1919. Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. Sir : The office is aware of the fact that the Pierre Indian school has a valu- able artesian well, valuable for only one thing, and that is the amount of gas that it produces. About seven years aso, just prior to my coming to Pierre, a gas container was erected to store gas from this well. The original cost of this gas container was probably about $1,000, possibly more. Since I have erected an additional gas container costing better than .$2,000. The entire plant has been pijied for gas. I have purchased gas stoves and gas hot-water heaters. The school is, therefore, well equipped along this line, and were it not for one thing might continue to enjoy this blessing of free gas, which is a large saving of fuel. The thing that confronts us and will ultimately obtain is the loss of the well, unless it is repaired at an early date. Nearly eight years ago certain repairs were made to this well under the supervision of superin- tendent of irrigation, Mr. Schanck. The repairs that were made by Mr. Schanck have kept the well alive until the present time. For the last two or three years the well ha.s broken loose down in the ground and water comes up outside of the casing. Every temporary repair possible has been made to stop this, but it seems there is but one way to make effective repairs, and that is to bring here a large machine and drive a 13-inch steel casing outside of the pres- ent casing, which I believe is 12 inches. I have consulted with Norbeck & Nicholson, the expert well drillers for the Northwest. Mr. Nicholson assured me last evening that this was the only solu- tion for the question. T^nless these repairs are made soon we will lose the well. It Is a very difhcult proposition to estimate the cost of repairs. To begin with, a heavy well outfit must be shipped from the western part of the State where they are boring for oil. The steel casing will cost $6 or $7 a foot and a special set of tools will have to be purchased to drive this casing. Mr. Nichol- son and I have gone over the proposition rather carefully, and it would not be safe to start to make these repairs at the present time with any sum less than ■'58,000 or $10,000. The school has no such amount of money at its disposal. Unles.'-- the well is repaired as stated, it is only a question of a short time when it will be a thing of the past and like the original artesian well put down at this school some 25 years ago, which at the present time is discharging a very small quantity of water to remind us that at one time it was not only the first but the largest flowing well in the two Dakotas. When this well goes back on us all of the money that we have invested in the irrigation plant, gas engines, gas containers, etc., will be worthless. Something must be done and done quickly. I therefore ask the office to consider the matter of recommenjding an appropriation of .$10,000 to* become immediately available and to be used in re- pairing this artesian well. If there is any further information desired, I shall be pleased to submit it or will be more than pleased to have the office make a thorough investigation of this. It is a matter, however, that demands early attention. I am, very respectfully, ' C. J. Crandall, Superintendent. The Chairman. Without objection the item will go in — $10,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary. Mr. Meritt. May we have that language changed so as to read : For repair and improvement of artesian well, $10,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary. (The item was agreed to, as amended.) Senator Steeling. I thank the committee very much. 172 ISTDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. California. STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN E. EAKEE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM CALIFORNIA. Mr. EAitEE. Mr. Chairman, may I say that -we are fairly ready to proceed with some suggestions with respect to the items under the caption "California," but if it would be convenient to the com- mittee it would be preferable to us to appear before the committee on Monday next. Senator Curtis. What do you desire to be heard upon ? * Mr. Raicee. We desire to be heard upon several items in the bill under the caption " California." I will state that there are some people here from California who have been in the city for two weeks who desire to be heard upon these matters. Senator Curtis. Why can you not get them here ? Mr. Eakee. I can not get in touch with them. However, we will do the best we can to get them here. The Chaieman. What the California delegation and Mr. Dock- weiler, who is a member of the Board of Indian- Commissioners, do not know about Indian a;ffairs in California would not be worth knowing. Mr. Rakee. Well, Mr. Chairman, we will do the best we can. We desire to take up the items on page 23 of the bill, commencing with the California items. The first item is for support and civiliza- tion of the Indians in California — — Senator McNary. That has already been agreed to. Mr. Raker. Well, that disposes of that. Here is an amendment offered by Senator Phelan. The Senator is, unfortunately, absent from the city or he Avould be present this morning. The amend- ment would come between lines 8 and 9, on page 23. I would like to go back to the first item that you agreed to, appropriating $42,000 for support and civilization. They estimated for $50,000, and they ought to have that amount. The Chaieman. If you will pardon me, I will state that I have no doubt the. department could spend $50,000. In fact, I have no doubt, without any urging, the department could spend $150,000 with just as much grace and ease as they could spejid $50,000. The com- mittee has been consistently using the carving knife and- has gone to the bone, and it has at all times insisted that this bill stay within the estimates, or at least should stay within what was appro- priated last year. Mr. Rakee. This will bring it within those estimates. I fully appreciate, Mr. Chairman, the desire for economy, but I want to say that anyone who has seen the condition of treatment, and the want of care, and the disease among the Indians in California can not but feel that we should have that amount, $50,000, and, indeed, double that amount, in order to. give them what they are justly entitled to for their proper care and treatment under the peculiar circumstance. But I shall let Mr. Dockweiler go into details further with respect to that matter. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 173 RELIEF OF XOKRESERVATION INDIANS. Mr. Raker. The item that I desire to call to the attention of the committee at this time, and which I hope you will insert in its proper place, is as follows : For the relief and care of imnreservatioii Imlians in (\\lifonila in destitute circumstances, for tiie iirevention and tn>atnient of tuberculosis, trachoma, conjuctivitis, smallpox, and other contagious and infectious diseases, and in- cluding the transportation of patients to and from county hospitals and alms- houses, and to special physicians when necessary, .i;20,000;' said fund to be expended under contract with county supervisors and under such regulations and conditions as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe, provided that not to exceed 50 per cent of the actual cost of such service to the supervisors shall be paid from this fund. I will state, Mr. Chairman, that there is a report or a letter here from the superintendent of the schools of California and others in- terested who know the situation, among them David Starr Jordan and Dr. Lyman Wilbur, of the Stanford University, and other men of that character, who have made a study with regard to the Indian situation, and I want to say to you gentlemen that the condition with respect to trachoma and other diseases in that State is so diffused that two-thirds of the deaths among the Indians is caused by it. Senator McNart. What is conjunctivitis? The Chaibhan. That is what is commonly known as pink eye. Senator Fernald. Have you not made a mistake in your calcula- tion — only 50 per cent of this to be used for supervision? In most of these items it is, at least, from 60 to 80 per cent. Mr. Eakee. I thought we would limit it if we could, in order to get as much as possible for the Indians. That is our purpose, and in this connection I will say that I have a splendid resume of the condition of the Indians in California, prepared by those men who are familiar with the situation, and presents the true state of affairs. I ask that it be inserted in your records. The Chairman. Without objection, the paper referred to will be inserted in the records. (The paper referred to is here printed in full, as follows :) INDIAN BOARD OP COOPERATION. (Incorporated.) .January 6, 1919. Hon. Fk.\nklin K. Lane, Secretary of the Interior, Wasliington. D. C. Dear Sie : The rapidly changing conditions of the California Indians, of their surroundings, and of public sentiment, and their neglect by the State and National Governments, make imperative a thorough study of the Califori;ia situation and call for Immediate remedial action. There are several items to the consideration of which we invite your very definite, serious, and sympathetic consideration. As the fundamental .instifica- tion for these matters is in general the same, to avoid reiteration and to have the case in Its entirety, so far as possible, before you, we are embodying them In the same communication. Although we fully recognize your sympathy and general knowledge of these conditions, we believe it highly In the interest of Indian betterment to call attention to some things, in particular the California Indian problem. The needs are : 174 IXDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1020. First. Adequate appropriations for land and improvements thereon for home- less Indians, and a more profitable expenditure of Government moneys. _ Second. The more consistent practice of the professed governmental policies regarding the education of Indian children in public schools, and the appropria- tion for the payment of tuitions for their education therein, as also for the erection and equipment of scliool buildings. Third. A more definite and authoritative understanding with the State and county officers concerning the care of the indigent Indians, together with appro- priations to be used in cases of merit in aiding local authorities. I. Land. As to the necessity for land for the Indians of California, there seems to have been at no time an adequate understanding by Congress as to the numbev< of needy Indians, the amount of land required, /the quality being purchased, or the amount of appropriations still necessary. Mr. C. E. Kelsey, who was in the employ of the Oflice of Indian Affairs for 10 years or more as special agent for the purchase of land in California for homeless Indians, spent during his administration about $150,000. It was repeatedly claimed by him during the last year of his service that land had been bought by him for all of the Indians of California, so that there were " only a few deals left to be closed," and that he would no longer be in the service, as it was possible for some regular employee charged with other respon- sibilities " to close these deals." It was also authoritatively .stated to Congress (House hearings 1914. p. 144) that there were 1,568 Indians without land, and that the appropriation -t-.til! needed was $50,000. On this presentation an appropriation of $10,000 was made, leaving, according to that estimate, a balance of $40,000 needed and of about 1,256 persons to be provided for, at a cost of about $32 per capita. This same year Dr. Samuel Eliot, a member of the Board of Indian Commis- sioners, stated that in his opinion, after a recent investigation. $30,000 would be an ample appropriation for the completion of the land settlement of these Indians. In the House hearings, under dates of December 5 and 6, 191G, page 136. Hie following appears : " It is believed tliat, wiih great care, it will he possible to complete this work with the amount asked for, $25,000." However, there are now, as recorded in the same paragraph, 2,782 Indians to be provided for. while in the following paragraph the same authority claims that there were between 8,000 and 4,000 without land. For the year ending .Tune 30, 1916, an appropriation of $10,000 was granted. Each successive yenr a similar amount has been authorised by Congress, and, with the number of homeless Indians apparently increa.^ing at an enormously rapid rate. Congress is playing a continuously losing game. It is clear that none of the estimates are either correct or adequate for the just settlement of the Indian land problem in California. We also note (House hearings, 1914, p. 144) that the average price per acre previously paid was $21.50. Under date of December 5, 1916 (p. 36), the amount per acre was given as $11.74, the per capita being $15.10, while the previous amount per capita came to about $32. It is well known throughout California that much of the land already pur- chased, in the aggregate of about $190,000, is worthless, without water or the hope of water, and without " the improvements thereon " authorized by Con- gress in the Indian appropriation bill. As an example we refer to one of many cases coming directly under our notice — that of the Rancheria at Hop- lands, bought by Agent C. E. Kelsey in 1907. There were 630 acres with abso- lutely no water, the nearest spring being about 2 miles away. The Indians have been compelled to reside elsewhere during the summer months until re-_ cently, when, through the efforts of this board, the Office of Indian Affairs arranged for the expenditure of about $1,000 for the purpose of securing water. Authorities in California will unanimously agree that land worth having can not be bought for $11.74 an acre. And is it not rather an astonishing mathematical feat that with land prices steadily advancing from year to year, agents are paying less? Again, your attention is called to page 143 of the House hearings, to the analysis of expenditures for the year ending June 30, 1914. There was $1,297.90 expended by the agent in order to expend $1,125 for land. This economic INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 175 .reach was acknowledged in the same hearings to be on account of the small- less ot the appropriation, which caused perplexity as to its wisest expendi- ure. In the year ending June 30, 1913, there was land purchased only "for he Guideville Band in Mendocln'o County, 43.12 acres, at a cost of $2,000; ind for the Wappo Band in Sonoma County, 30 acres, at a cost of $2,500." L like small sum year by year, administered by one or another to whom the rarchase of land is only a side issue, will carry this matter on almost inter- mnably. Thus there is clearly a flagrant inconsistency of estimates and in- !onsistency m the expenditure of governmental moneys profitably. With such discrepancies as these apparent, and with information so inade- luate, it is evident that Congress has not been able to act intelligently in ■egard to the land situation in this State. EECOM MENDATION S. We would therefore earnestly request: First, that suitable steps be taken to thoroughly canvass the situation. Second, that a tabulation be made — (1) Of appropriations previously authorized ; (2) Of the land purchased, as to its quality and suitability; (3) Of the number of Indians not provided for at all, or for whom no liile- luate provision has been made; (4) Of the number of acres necessary; (5) Of the approximate amount of funds needed. And, since this survey is eminently important and is a California matter, it is reasonable. Third, that there be appointed a representative California commission, con- versant with State conditions, to approach the problem both wisely and sym- pathetically. Eourth, that there should be a competent agent charged with the sole duty of purchasing this land until the matter has been fully completed, with, every California Indian upon his own home soil and fairly compensated for his rights in land. II. Schools. In order that we may bring the entire California Indian educational situa- tion before you, there are several things to be considered. The facts in general are : l^he Indian population in CaliforniS is stationary, in about 300 groups — 20,000 Indians distributed throughout 45 counties. Twenty to twenty-five per cent of them are of school age — between 4,000 and 5,000. There are no re- liable statistics available a.s to the exact number of Indian children in school, but according to the best available information there are at least 2,500 not in school, chiefly from .lack of adequate facilities, race prejudice, indiffer- ence, etc. That the method frequently employed for establishing Government schools proves a menace to the Indians receiving education and to neighboring Indians who need schools is well known in every community. According to the report of Commissioner, 1910, page 14, the cost per capita to educate an Indian child in a Government school was $168. Even with this figure it is difficult to ar- rive at the exact cost, for most assuredly a part of the expense of the national superintendence of Indian education, as well as part of the cost of general supervision in the State and cost of school buildings, plus the interest on in- vestments, transportation of pupils, in many cases their board, would be rightly included In even an approximate estimate of the cost of this service. The per capita cost of the education of children in the elementary schools of this State for 1913-14, including all expenses for salaries of teachers, jani- tors, fuel, repairs, equipment, Ijooks, charts, etc., was $35.72. If we were to include in this the salaries of the State and county superintendents of schools, their ofllce expenses and the investments of property with the Interest thereon, the per capita cost would then be below $40 per year. From these figures it is clear, that the cost of educating an Indian child in the normal way in the public school is about 75 per cent less than under the present prevailing Federal rSglme. , .^ . . ., . , The people of the Indian communities labor under the impression that the Indians are wards of the Government, and that it is therefore the duty of the Government to educate them. For instance, two schools have been erected 176 INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL, llJ2ri. and equipped recently by the Federal Government in Mendocino County, one at Plnoleville at a cost of $3,500. Here a teacher's house has also been erected at a cost of $1,800. At Carroll, near by, a school house haS' been constructeft: costing $1,200. At each of these points the Government maintains an inde- pendent school, and there seems to be absolutely no justification for this un- reasonable Independence, so out of accord with the professed policy of the Office of Indian Affairs. For, in the best interest of the Indians, public school facilities could be arranged under which conditions the State would bear a liberal share of the expense of the school maintenance now and its ultimate responsibility. Both the educational administration of the State and the Indian board of cooperation are strongly in favor of_providing for the Indian children so far as possible in the districts already established, but are also anxious to, solve the Indian educational problem of the State as rapidly as it can be don^ To do this some additional school districts must be established for Indians now, but it is our expectation, as California becomes more settled, for these districts to finally become mixed by later changing boundary lines to take in the new white neighbors and Indians, thus keeping to the ideal of the as- similation of the races. Through the efforts of the field secretaries of the Indian board ot cooper- ation new district schools have been formed ; in each case, because of local conditions, the boundary lines have taken in only land recently allotted by your Land Office, which is, . of » course, nontaxable.' It is in providing school buildings and equipment for these new districts, and for other districts that should be formed, and for buildings and equipment needed for communities , where the Indians reside near established schools, but who are debarred on account of lack of equipment, that an appropriation is needed. The approxi- mate amount needed to erect and fully furnish a school building is about $1,500. There are at least 10 or 12 buildings required now., If the policy outlined in this letter is followed, it will mean that the State school, will rapidly supplant the day and boarding schools of the Government, and tliat by this means the Government will ultimately and eventually release itself from the responsibility and support of all of its schools for Indians in California. Besides, it willcost the Federal Government during the period of- readjustment, for all expenses involved, fully .50 per cent less per capita than it now costs the State. KECOilMENDATIONS. ^'S'e 'would therefore reconnnend to the National Government : First. To erect the school buildings needed. This niay be done either — (1) By Congress appropriating a fund for their construction and furnishing. (2) By Congress appropriating a reimbursable fund from which the school-- houses can be built and equipped, the fund to be replaced by the trustees of the respective districts from moneys received from the Office of Indian Affairs as a tuition for the attendance of Indian children in the public school, a larger tuition being necessary when extensive repairs or the erection of a building is required. Second. To pay tuition for the education of Indian childreij in meritorious cases in the public school. Third. To place one or more tactful agents in the field, who should be well versed as to school law and California conditions, whose appointment, would be approved by the. State board of education, and, who would give their entire time uninterruptedly to the work of arranging terms whereby the Indians shall be admitted to the public school. The Indians, because of their lack of education and because of their general treatment, do not have the initiative for themselves, nor a knowledge of our laws and the methods by which school advantages are ordinarily obtained. This makes necessary, temporarily, the intercession and friendly aid of some one thoroughly conversant with the subject. III. The Indigent. The third item which we wish to bring before you is regarding the securing of proper aid for the sick, aged, and destitute Indians of California, for whom no adequate provision has been made. Great wrong is being perpetrated toward the Indians because of the lack of a definite understanding between the Federal and local authorities with refer- ence to the care of Indians. The supervisors in many cases now labor under INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 19i20. 177 he impression that the Indians are wards of the National Government, and Mt because In some cases the Government provides food, medicine, and other lecessities, it is the duty to care for them. Tills doubt as to the shuus of the Indian is most harmful to him, and this loiird has made su!>st;mtial i)rosr(>ss in cK^arinK uii the status of the Indian and u prepauuK in a fuudamontal way tor a;.;.^ressivf wdrk in the proper adjust- ueiit of this condition. Wo have brought a test case in th<- California Supreme Jourt as to the citizenship of the Indian, the court reuderiiiK unanimous deci- ilou in the aflirmative. Again, through the board's elforts, an opinion from Attornej' (ieneral Webb, jf California, has been obtained as to tlje responsiliilitv of the supervisors to :are for needy Indians. The opinion holds that it Is the statutory duty of Munty supervisors to provide for all indigent persons who have residence in their county, and that citizenship is not necessarily a requisite. Legal authori- ties are of the opinion that supervisors who refuse to grant aid may lie com- pelled to do so in cases of merit. In most counties it will be found that if the supervisors were to assume, or be compelled to assume, the full responsibility of the care and maintenance of indigent Indians, it would be, at least temporarily, an unjust burden. We would therefore strongly urge that the National Government take suitable steps to enter into contract with the supervisors. It is a well-known fact that many Indians, some living on land recently allotted liy your office, others still being crowded ever back to barren, desert, and mouutauu)us se, miles from any public school. We may organize a new district. When that new district is organized the State will pay $600 for the first year, and the State and county thereafter will pay from $700 to $800 for the maintenance of that school, and the State funds will be available every year thereafter so long as that school maintains an average daily attendance of five. We find that ordinarily in establishing a new district it,is necessary to take in only land recently allotted by the National Government. This land is exempt from taxation in California, and the only way under our constitution of providing school buildings and equip- ment or for the use of additional funds other than those ordinarily given for the maintenance of the school is by the levy of a special tax within the district. Now, these Indians have no taxable land, have no way under heaven whereby they may. provide a school building, and so we find that there is a necessity for a few school buildings. We are asking, not for the Government to do anything that we can do for ourselves; but( simply to assist us in doing the things that we are not in a position to do. The Indians wish only a free opportunity for a useful, happy life, and this is one of the stepping-stones, one of the opportunities that will be given them to make progress that is worthy. In scores of cases in California those schools have been established; and the Indians are now receiving an education, either by admission to schools already established by the whites or separate schools that have been established by the supervisors or the trustees of the district, when that has been necessary, or by the formation of new school districts, and practically every Indian in California can to-day be provided with educational opportunities under State super- vision, in accordance with the policy declared by Secretary. Lane and by the Office of Indian Affairs, with a little cooperation on the part of the National Government. We are only asking for coopera tion. We find, however, in a number of cases that the Office of Indian Affairs has established separate schools and is maintaining a separate and definite work; and there is absolutely no justification for that. Senator Walsh. In what part of the State are these Indians ? I Mr. CoLLETT. They are scattered throughout the entire State. Senator Walsh. Are there any considerable number of them in communities and separate localities disseminated generally through- out the white population? 190 iNDlA:^^ APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. CoLLETT. They range in number from 15 to about 600 Indians. These Indians are distributed in some 250 bands throughout the State. They are in about 40 different counties. Senator Walsh. Has California been their ancestral home or did they come from elsewhere ? Mr. CoLLETT. That is their home. Senator Nugent. Did you say there were 600 of them ? Mr. Collett. There are from 15 to 600 in the several bands. Senator Nugent. How many all told ? Mr. CoLLETi'. There are 20,000 Indiany in California. Senator Nugent. Homeless? • Mr. Collett. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. Homeless and destitute Indians ? Mr. Collett. No, sir; about 15,000 are nonreservation Indians. Probably 4,000 are without homes to-day. I wish now to call your especial attention to this fourth item. Senator Cuetis. Eight at that point, the Indian Office reports that there are only 2,700 homeless Indians in California and that in three years we can complete the work of buying homes for them, and they have only nfiked for $20,000, claiming that is all that is needed, that it will only take $20,000 for providing homes for them all. Mr. Collett. Let me call attention to another thing that the In- dian Office has said against that, and I admit it was based on reports from their agents in California which were not reliable, and I have no more faith that the reports thev now have are reliable either. We find that in 1906 and 1907 'an appropriation of $100,000 was given. In 1909, $50,000 Senator Curtis. Will you allow me to say a word at this point? I happen to have put that first item in the bill at $100,000. Senator Flint offered a IdIU providing for $60,000. He claimed then as a Senator that $60,000 would be sufficient. I happened to have had charge of the bill for Mr. Sherman that year, and I said that I did not think $60,000 would be sufficient. I said, " We will give them $100,000 if that will be enough — if you will not come back here." We gave them $100,000 and they have been here ever s'ince. Mr. Collett. Tho-e are the things I want to enumerate. Senator Cuetis. That is what I want to know something about. Mr. Collett. At the time of the giving of the $50,000 m 1909, a few years later it was distinctly understood by your committee and by Congress in general tliat the $50,000 was ample, and it was so definitely understood that you wrote into your statute that that amount was ample and it was to be so expended that no more would be necessary. We find that each year thereafter additional appro- priations had been made. Mr. Kelsey, who was the acting special agent for about 10 years in California, in buying these lands for homeless Indians, declared in 1913 that practically all Indians in California were provided with homes ; there were but few details yet to be closed. Your records-show that on the presentation made by the Office of Indian Affairs in 1914. there were then about 1,500 Indians Avithout homes in California. The next record showed that there were from 2,000 to 4.000 Indians. Last year your records showed that there were about 4.000 Indians in California still Avithont liomes INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 191 Senator Walsh (interposing). They seem to be growing. Mr. CoLLEiT (continuing). And the total appropriations made to date for the landless Indians in California have amounted to $260,- 000; and we submit to you that much of the land which was pur- chased is absolutely worthless and without water and without the hope of water. We also called your attention to the manner in which these lands were being bought is not proving satisfactory, and we believe, gentlemen of the committee, that it is your intention to, so far as possible, settle with the California Indians, to follow out tlie moral obligation that seems to rest upon this Congress because of treaties and other things that were negotiated with the Indians of California. The Indians are not getting the thing that you expect them to re- ceive. There are Congres.smen from California who are familiar with the fact that the land recently bought is not satisfactory land. And so, because of these reasons, we feel that there ought to be a thor- ough investigation of the entire situation, that we may set our goal before us and- reach it some day. As things are now going, -\^e shall never reach any goal in California. There are other things that should be investigated by this committee. The general policy con- cerning the Indians of California should also be considered. We find that in California we are getting practically no coopera- tion from the National Government; that is, as a State. The State superintendent of public instruction will write concerning a group of Indians, and he receives an inadequate answer; he will not say that he gets that frf»m the office itself, but from the local officials. The records show that during the last few years the Office of Indian Affairs has been responsible for examining several thousand Indians in California. Several thousand have been found to have contagious 'and infectious diseases. We have a law in California which requires that all such cases shall be reported to the State board of health; the State board of health has absolutely no information concerning these matters ; and we are asking that the State and Federal Govern- ment get together and form some definite plans concerning what should be done and work in accprdance with that program. Such a commission, gentlemen, not only ought to make this inves- tigation, but also ought to supervise and watch tlie progress of the doing of the things that Congress may determine ouglit to be ilone. It may be that if this item was changed or thrown out (.'ntirely and an item of $5,000 was added to the appropriation already given to the Board of Indian Commissioners, and that board were asked to make the investigation, it is reasonable that that beard might make the investigation in California. We submit this matter to you for your consideration and trust that you will take some definite action in the premises. Mr. Raker. We wopld like to have Mr. Dockweiler heard a few moments, and then we will submit the matter to you. STATEMENT OF MR. ISADORE B. DOCJCWEILER, MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF UNITED STATES INDIAN COMMISSIONERS. Mr. DocKWEiLEE. Your time is very short, and Judge Raker and Mr. Collet have gone over the subject pretty fully. Therefore I will not detain vour unnecessarily. 192 iifDiA^r appropkiatiojST bill, 1920. I want to say, so far as I am concerned, I am very strongly ia favor of this first appropriation, for the relief of the nonreservation. Indians, or for the second appropriation of $30,000. I believe that a thorough investigation of the Indian situation in California should be had. At the last meeting of the Board of Indian Commiss-ioners, held here several weeks ago, the subject was discussed and we expect to. provide or arrange for the extended investigation. Whether we can do it on the usual appropriation granted, of $10,000 for our support, I can not say, but "a small appropriation for this special purpose would, I think, bring about the desired result. , I think the board, which has been cooperating with the, Indian Bureau, in view of the special knowledge of various members of the board of the Indian situation throughout the country, and as to Cali- fornia in particular, would be in a better position to secure more satisfactory results than an independent board consisting of mem-, bers who have not had any considerable experience with the Indian question. It is the board's duty to investigate situations such as are presented by the California case, and I think it is a matter properly within the jurisdiction of the board. Senator Curtis. You have had men in that neighborhood, or that State, frequently, why have not they looked into the question before? Mr. DocKWEiLEE. We have never been able, on account of the smallness of our appropriation and the work done in connection with Indian matters in other States — we have never been able to devote;^ special attention to the California subject; but we intend to, Senator,, because we feel that that situation there is a grievous one and should receive special consideration. The Chairman. I gathered from Mr. Collett that what he wanted was cooperation between the Government and the State ? Mr. DooKWEiLEK. Yes. The Chairman. And he thought that would be a better plan than to have the Indian Bureau handle this thing as, an independent proposition. Mr. DocKWEiuER. No ; the appropriation is necessary, The appro- priations asked for for the relief and care of nonreservation' Indians and for school provisions, those two items are really necessary, gentle- nrien. Senator McNaey. Eight on that point. Doctor. On page 6 of the Indian affairs bill we are appropriating for the relief and care of destitute Indians and for the prevention and treatment of tubercu- losis, trachoma, smallpox, and other contagious and infectious dis- eases, $10,000 for Hoopa Valley Hospital. Your amendment covers the same thing. You want $20,000 for destitute Indians and the same character of diseases to be treated, 50 per cent of which goes for overhead cha,rges. Why not increase the capacity of the Hoopa Val- ley Hospital, if it is inadequate, to meet the tubercular patients in California ? Mr. DocKWEiLER. Well, as to that, I would say that the first $10,- 000 mentioned in the bill is inadequate, and I believe that is confined to reservation Indians, is it not. Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. The Hoopa Valley Hospital ? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 193 Senator McNary. For relief and cure of destitute Indians. Mr. DocKWEiLEE. Under the phraseology quoted that appropria- tion could be used anywhere throughout the country ; but the Cali- fornia situation is special in character, and we would like to have it dealt with in that way. Senator Nugent. I understand that you are a member of the Board of Indian Commissioners? Mr. DocKWEiuEH. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. And have been for years ? Mr. DocKWEiLER. For four years. Senator Nugent. Does your commission exercise any supervision over the expenditure of the funds on the part of the Indian Bureau ? Mr. DocKWEiuEE. None whatever. Senator Nugent. Referring to this item that Senator McNary has called your attention to, this appropriation of $375,000 this year for the relief and cure of destitute Indians not otherwise provided for and for the prevention of certain diseases, I noticed the appropria- tion last year was $350,000. Mr. DocKWEBLEE. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. And from my limited experience in this commit- tee, I assume an appropriation of that magnitude had been carried in this bill for a very considerable number of years. Now, why is it that certain of these moneys in excess of the appropriations for specific purposes has not been diverted to the care of these Indians during, the years that have gone by ? Mr. DocKWEiuER. I suppose Mr. Meritt could answer that ; I could not answer it ; probably Mr. Meritt could. In making up the ap- propriation, of course, that is made up probably of items called for by the different localities. Now, as to these localities, how much, if any, Mr. Meritt, of the $355,000 which might be appropriated by the present Congress would you apply, or have you had assigned to the California situation, if you can state? Mr. Meeitt. We do not assign any particular amount in any par- ticular year. Senator Nugent. According to this item, there are $294,500 that are appropriated to specific institutions. Mr. DocKWEiuEB. Yes. Senator Nugent. Which leaves a balance of something over $80,000 that may be used for these other purposes mentioned in this bill. The care and relief of destitute Indians not otherwise provided for and the prevention of tuberculosis, trachoma, smallpox, etc.; that being true, with that sum of money available for the particular purpose that you now have reference to, is it not, in. your judgment, necessary that a specific provision be made for that same purpose, and a specific appropriation diverted to that purpose upon the adop- tion of your amendment? Mr. DocKWEiLEE. Yes, sir. Mr. Meritt, could you state _ what amount of last year's appropriation was expended in California for indigent and destitute Indians? Mr. Meeitt. This appropriation for relief of distress is used very largely for the support of hospitals now in existence. Only a very small amount of that appropriation is left after these hospitals are 106080—19 -13 194 IHDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. maintained; something less than $75,000. That amount we use to cover emergency cases all over the United States. Therefore, very little of that amount would be available for use in California. I am prepared to make a statement on the California situation to the committee after the gentlemen have finished. Mr. DocKWEiLEE. Are there any further questions which the com- mittee desire to ask me? Senator Walsh. This appropriation for schools — does the amend- ment contemplate, that separate Indian schools are to be erected, or does it contemplate, as in the case of the sick, that there should be joint action with the local authorities in the erection of these school--, houses ? Mr. DocKWEiLEE. Well, not joint action; as I understand, in the erection and equipment of the schoolhouses ; but if we give the school- houses, the building, none of them to exceed in cost $2,000 the local authorities will furnish teachers for those schoolhouses, which, as we contend, are necessary in order to give these individual bands of Indians located in the State an opportunity for possible grammar- grade education. Senator Walsh. Apparently, then, the local authorities are to furnish the teachers, and their pay will be raised by the ordinary means of taxation ? Mr. DocKVSTEiLEE. Yes. Senator Walsh. Of course, then, these schoolhouses will be avail- able for the use of the local pupils of white parents ? Mr. DocKWEiLEE. Yes, sir ; certainly ; if the white parents would care to send their children there. Senator Walsh. So that the cooperation tha;t is contemplated is cooperation in this sense, that the Federal Government will build the schoolhouses and the local authorities will take care of the main- taining of them and the supplying of the teachers ? Mr. DoCKWEiLEE. Yes. Now, Mr. Collett has Senator Walsh. Just a moment, Mr. Dockweiler. What kind of assurance have we that the local authorities will do that? Mr. DocKWEiLEE. Well, the schoolhouses will be there and the children are there, and it will be a matter that I imagine no board of supervisors in any specific county would ignore. As Mr. Collett has indicated, it is a different matter for boards of education and boards of supervisors in their respective jurisdictions to provide for the extra expenditure of schoolhouse erection and equipment on ac- count of the difficulty of raising moneys therefor, but the schoolhouse having been built then out of the general taxation fund of the county^out of the educational fund the school-teacher could be furnished. Senator Walsh. It seems to me you need some further machinerj/ to carry this out to make it in any way effective. Now, under this fhe' schoolhouse "vyould be built by the Federal Government. They Ivould have to acquire a site, and of course it would be acquired under the direction of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. He would go into a certain school district and he would conclude that a certam place is a proper place to build the schoolhouse and acquire a site INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 195 there upon which to build it. You know how intense these local controversies arise as to where schools ought to be. The commissioner will think it ought to be in a certain place, perhaps convenient to where the Indians live, and the local authorities, who will supply the teachers, might insist that the schools ought to be put in another place on the other side of the district. Mr. DockwEiLEE. I should say each individual question should be determined as best it could be done. I will illustrate by one case which happened in my own experience. I am interested in a ranch in Nevada where there are quite a large number of children. The school authorities of Nevada said if we would provide a schoolhouse they would provide a teacher, and promptly the company owning the ranch provided the schoolhouse, and we have a teacher there teaching the local Indian children. Now, had we not furnished the schoolhouse we would not i have had any school, and this is just the same situation. The fund is to be ex- pended by the Indian Bureau, and if special difficulties arose in any given case they could withhold the appropriation — withhold the expenditure of it. The Chaie3Iax. Would it not be better, Judge, to donate to the State of California a certain sum of money and let the State take care of these Indians ? Senator Ncgent. Yes: how would that do? Mr. DocKWEiiyER. That would be satisfactory. I imagine. Mr. CoLLETT. We have laws in California which provide amply, as indicated, for the admission of Indians into the schools already estab- lished, two separate schools, that the trustee may find necessary to establish, and for the formation of schools when new schools are necessary. Funds are available from the State continuously after the supervisor has formed a district for the maintenance of that school. We find our difficulty in providing for a special tax to which we must resort to build or to add new equipment to school buildings. There will continue the necessity of some confusion in cases to sup- ply additional equipment and room. But when the school is estab- lished, then is the time we apply to the National Government for assistance. We do not ask the National Government to put up the building until the school has been organized. Eeally, the Govern- ment has its own land there, and upon that land this school building Would very logically be built ; and. in fact, that is the policy that has been pursued. In one case the Office of Indian Affairs has given $1,000 for the erection and equipment of a school building, and in other cases it has given money for additional equipment. So, there could be no trouble under our laws as to the working of this matter. The Chairman. If there is no objection the committee will take a recess until 2.30 o'clock this afternoon. (Whereupon, at 1.45 o'clock p. m., the committee took a recess until 2.30 o'clock p. m.) , AFTER RECESS. ^ The committee resumed its session at 2.30 o'clock p. ra., Senator Nugent presiding as chairman. 196 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. CALLFORNIA HOMELESS INDIANS. The Acting Chairman. What are the wishes of the committee with respect to the California items that we were hearing at the time of the recess? Senator Curtis. Are we going to hear from the department on that later on or did you make your statement, Mr. Meritt? Did you want to be heard on that this aifternoon or wait until next week? Mr. Meritt. Whatever the committee desires. Shall we take up the California items? Senator Curtis. Yes ; I suggest that we proceed. ^ Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, we had a great many hearings on the California situation, and the hearing this morning is typical of othei hearings before this committee. There are between fifteen and twenty thousand Indians in Cali- fornia, and we have been requesting for a number of years appro- priations for the purchase of lands for those homeless Indians. For about eight years a gentleman by the name of Mr. Kelsey, who was very much interested in the California Indians and who was strongly indorsed by tj^ie friends of the Indians of that State, was engaged in the work of iyarcnasing land for those Indians. At the time Mr. Kelsey left the service he estimated that there were approximately 1,500 Indians in California who were without lands. We have had the matter subsequently investigated, and it was dis- covered that there were between 3,000 and 4,000 Indians without lands, and we have been asking for small appropriations in^the Indian bill each year to cover that work. Our records show that we have purchased 8,380 acres for 4,662 Indians. So much for the land question, except I wish to say that Mr. CoUett was in error in his statement this morning that lands that had re- cently been purchased for the California Indians were practically worthless. We have been exceedingly careful in the last few years to see that the lands that were purchased for those Indians were reasonably good lands, prices being considered. Anyone who is at all familiar with California knows that there is a very great variety in the lands in that State ; land values run anywhere from 50 cents an acre up to $3,000 an acre, and we have attempted to purchase these lands in the immediately community in which these various bands of Indians live. Senator Nugent. How much money has been expended for that purpose? Mr. Merrit. The total appropriations have amounted to $453,000. Senator Nugent. How much of that $453,000 was actuallj' ex- pended for the land? Mr. Meritt. That appropriation included the support and civiliza-^ tion, as well as the purchase of lands. In recent years the appro- priations have been for the purchase of lands only, and there has been a separate appropriation for the support and civilization. My information is that we have expended between $175,000 and $200,000 for the purchase of lands. ^ Senator Nugent. About 50 per cent of the money appropriated has actually been invested in land ? INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL, 1920. 197 Ml-. Meri'it. Yes, sir ; and the other money was used for agencies. Senator Kexdrick. That is hardly a fair estimate of the amount expended in proportion to the amount appropriated for the purchase of knds, is it— 30 per cent? You have not expended 70 per cent? Senator Xugent. Fifty. Senator Kexdiuck. Iii investigation and that sort of thing, and administration ? Mr. Meeitt. Xot all. Senator. Senator Kendrick. The other part, or a good proportion of the other, has gone toward maintenance ? ]\fr. Meeitt. Maintenance of the schools and agencies. Senator Kendrick. That is the way I understood it. Mr. Meritt. The appropriations were consolidated. Senator Kendrick. That is a very important question that the cliairman is asking, and I would like to know about what proportion of the money that is appropriated for the purchase of lands actually goes into the land — I would like to know that. Mr. Meritt. Practically all the money appropriated goes into the purchase of Innds : only a very small amount is used for administra- tive expenses. The lands purchased during the last few years have been suitable for the Indians. It is conceded that there were some lands purchased 10 years ago by Mr. Kelsey that were proven to be unsatisfactory, and we have tried to correct that error, and we have given very stringent instruc- tions that land purcbased for those Indians should be suitable for them. I do not believe that it can be successfully shown that lands pur- chased in the last few years have not been suitable lands. L Senator Kendeick. It may be, Mr. Commissioner, that you have Already answered this question, but I ask your indulgence. I want to know what character of land you are buying for the Indians. . Mr. Meeitt. The Indians as a rule live in communities distant from the cities. We purchase land located in a community where the little bands of Indians live. ' For instance, we bought lands for probably 100 different bands of Indians located all over the State of California. These Indians are located in probably 35 different counties, in different parts of the ^tate of California. 'i^:Senator Kendeick. May I ask you, do you insist upon investing in aclass of land that will be productive, always? JMr. Meritt. Yes, sir. ^Senator Kendeick. Not always irrigated land, though? 1 Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; we do not always buy irrigated land, because the irrigated lands are very expensive and we could not acquire very iipch land with the amount of money appropriated. But we buy lands that are suitable for the Indians, and in the community in which they have been living, and the class of lands on which they have been making a living prior to their purchase. For the record, Mr. Chairman, I would like to incorporate in my statement a list of the lands purchased, showing the acres, the num- ter of Indians, and the bands for whom the lands were purchased. ' r Senator Nugent. If there is no objection, it is so ordered. 198 ■ INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Meritt. The following is submitted for the record: Lanil purchawH for ('iilhfased Indians, as I understand it? 200 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Kendeick. Tubercular and otherwise infected. Now, Mr. Commissioner, I ask you for information. Is the department taldng any aggressive steps toward eliminating or stamping out disease in the different tribes ; that is, are they prosecuting that work with any degree of diligence ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes. sir. I might saj- that up to eight years ago Con- gress appropriated only $90,000 for this health work among Indians. We have gradually increased that appropriation to $375,000, and in the last eight years we have built probably 20 or 25 hospitals through- out the Indian country. ^ We have sent special physicians all over the United States examin- ing Indians and treating them for trachoma and tuberculosis. We have established two or three sanatoriums where we could send little children who had incipient cases of tuberculosis, and while curing them of tuberculosis we would be educating them. Our statistics show that about 15 per cent of the Indians are suffer- ing from tuberculosis and between 20 and 25 per cent have trachoma. The statement that 80 per cent of the Indians have tuberculosis, made this morning, is entirely incorrect. We have made a very fine showing along health lines during the last few years, and the statistics show that up to the time of this influenza epidemic there were more Indians born than died. Prior to 10 years ago there was a decrease in the Indian populaj^ion each year, but during the last 10 years there has been a slight increase in the Indian population in this country. The influenza epidemic has caused the death of a great many Indians in all parts of the coun- try, and the statistics of the last year or two will naturally be not favorable. Senator Kendeick. Just one thing more that I have in mind in connection with this matter. We will take a given reservation, say the Crows, and your plan of campaign there ; is it of a comprehensive kind, under which you locate one or more physicians who give their time to that? I ask now to know about this, because I consider it one of the fundamental things in connection with this whole situation. Mr. Meeiti\ We have a hospital on the Crow Reservation for the bienefit of the Crow Indians. We also have ordinarily about three physicians stationed on that reservation who devote their time to work among the Crow Indians. We have been handicapped during the war on account of the short- age of physicians. A great many of our physicians have resigned to go into war work, but they are coming back now, and we are filling these vacancies. We tried to maintain physicians among the Indians so that they would have proper medical attention. Senator Kendrick. Now, Mr. Commissioner, one more question. I do not like to delay this proceeding, but this is a question appar- ently so vital and important. When your^ physicians are on the ground — I mean by that stationed at their places on the reservation — are they giving their whole time to the question of disease and sanitation of the tribe in different parts of the reservation, and do they go aboTit with any whole-hearted spirit of getting results ? INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 201 Mr. Meeiti'. We have two classes of physicians in the Indian Serv- ice: One class devote their entire time to medical work amon^ the Indians; another class of physicians known as contract physicians, who are located in the communities where there are white citizens as ■well as Indians, are paid a certain amount each year to look after the health of the Indians — ^but on practically all of our Indian reser- vations we have regular Indian Service physicians who devote all of their time to medical work among the Indians ; and in addition to that, we have matrons who go into the homes of the Indians and teach ihem sanitation and the modern methods of living. Senator McNaey. Mr. Commissioner, the House this year, and the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, has agreed to the appropriation ■of $375,000 for the relief and care of destitute Indians, tuberculosis ■cases, smallpox, etc. Now, there are 20 institutions provided to carry on that work, five of which are located in Arizona, the adjoining State, one in Nevada and one in the State of California — that is seven hospitals maintained and equipped and operated exclusively for the treatment of these infectious and contagious diseases scattered right about the •destitute Indians in California. Now, you still want a further appropriation. I can not understand why you don't take them into one of these several hospitals in Ari- zona, Nevada, or the one in California. Mr. Meritt. These Indians in some cases live hundreds of miles from those hospitals, and it would cost more to transport them to the hospitals and return them home, than it would to give the medical attention in their present homes. Senator McNaky. That being so, why is the policy peculiar to Cali- fornia when it does not obtain in my State ? For instance, there isn't n hospital for the treatment of these contagious diseases in my State, one of the largest States in the Union. They have tuberculosis there as much as any other State. You take those patients to Arizona ; you bring them from Alaska and jump down to Nevada or California. WTiy is it peculiar to California that you can't take Indians from there and pass them through the State line where you have six insti- tutions for the treatment of those afflicted with the disease ? Mr. Meeitt. We have one hospital in Oregon at the school at Chemawa. where we take care of the India,n children attending that school. Senator McNaey. That is an institution, a local educational insti- tution; these are hospitals for the treatment of these particular diseases. Mr. Meeitt. We did not estimate this appropriation, but we recog- nize its need and are in favor of it. Senator McNaey. Would you be in favor of it in my State, too? Mr. Meeitt. It would probably take an appropriation of $2,000,000 to furnish ample hospital facilities now actually needed by the In- dians in all of the States, but we realize that Congress will not make an appropriation of that large an amount, and we have been grad- ually building up this medical service during the last 8 or 10 years. We have not sufficient funds out of the appropriation that Con- gress provides in what is known as "relief and distress" to take 202 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL, 1920. care of the Indians in California, for practically all of this appropri- ation is necessary to maintain existing- hospitals; and if we are going to extend this relief work to California it will be necessary to hare an additional appropriation, and we are in favor of it in view of the fact that the State of California proposes, in this bill, to assume half of the burdens, which I think is entirely proper. Senator Cuetis. Another question, if you open this up for Cali- fornia, doesn't it mean that next year some othei' State will come in here for the same kind df a separate appropi'iation ? That has been the history of every other specific appropriation that has been made. , Mr. Meritt. I don't think that would be the case because the Indians of other States have received very much niore generous assistance from the Federal Government than have the California Indians. The Indians in California are very deserving Indians. The Government has entered into treaties with them ; those treaties were never ratified and never carried out, and if the Gov- ernment should actually pay the California Indians what it, in justice and in honor, owes, those Indians cciuld be placed on a very much better basis than they are now. Senator McNakt. On that point, Mr. Meritt, I observe in three States, Michigan, Oregon, and Wisconsin, there are 25,000 Indians and no hospitals in those States. As far as I am concerned, I am opposed to locating any other hospitals ; we have too many now — ^but it is strange indeed that 25,000 Indians haven't a hospital, and here is an instance where you have one in your State and six in other States, and still you want another. How many Indians are there in Alaska, may I ask? Mr. Meritt. The Alaska Indians are not under the jurisdiction of the Indian Bureau ; they are under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Education. * It is not the purpose of this appropriation to build hospitals. Senator McNary. I appreciate that. - Mr. Meritt. Now as to the next item — — Senator Nugent. Just a moment, Mr. Commissioner; I would like to have this matter made clear for my own information. The item with respect to California, commencing at line 4 and ending at line 8, page 23, reads as follows : For the purchase of lands for the homeless Indians in California, including' improvements thereon, for the use and occuiiaiioy of said Indians, ili20,000, said funds to be expended under such reRulatlons and conditions as the Secre- tary of the Interior may prescribe. If my memory serves me right, an item providing for like ap- propriation was contained in almost, if not exactly, identict|.I language in the bill last year. How long, if you remember, has Congress been appropriating for that particular purpose? Mr. Meritt. Congress began appropriations for this work June 21, 1906, and $100,000 was appropriated for the purchase of lands and for irrigation purposes. Senator Nugent. Then I understand, in the interval elapsing be- tween 1906 and this tisue tliere have been $475,000 appropriated for INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 203 the purchase of hxnd and improvements for homeless Indiervlsors shall be paid from this, fund. For the erection and eauipnient of schoolhouses in California for public- school purposes for nonreservation Indians, $30,000 : Provided, That not to ex- ceed $2,000 shall be expended for the erection and equipment of each building:- Provided further, That this appropriation shall not become available until thb local authorities of the State of California shall provide one-half of the expense- of erection of said school buildings, under such rules and regulations as the- Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. If that proviso were added to this item, I beKeve that the depart- )nent would f a^or it — it would certainly meet with my approval — but without that proviso we think it exceedingly inadvisable for Congress to enter into the erection of public-school buildings in. the various States because it would take millions of dollars out of the Federal Treasury to carry out this policy throughout the entire Indian country. Congressman Eakei?. Mr. Chairman, right in that connection, I think Ave might just as well say for the California Representatives- and those here that that would be a fair policy to carry out, and we would agree to the amendment, and I think good results would be obtained. Mr. Meeitt. I will state that we would favor this amendment if it were amended as I have suggested. Senator Geon]si;a. Before we leave that, I should like to see thia language changed. I think it ought to be changed for the erection and equipment of schoolhouses in California for public-school pur- poses for nonreservation Indians, and then strike out the balance and insert the numerals " $30,000," and then, "Provided, That riot to ex- ' ceed $2,000 shall be expended for the erection and equipment of each building." Mr. Meeitt. I think that would be an improvement. Senator Spencee. What is the word before "Indians"? Mr. Meeitt. " For nonreservation Indians." Senator Geonna. There would be no objection to that, would, there? Senator Spencee. None whatever — this is for nonreservation In- dians, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. COMMISSION TO INVESTIGATE CONDITIONS OF CALIFOENIA INDIANS. , Mr. Meeitt. Now, as to the last item, Mr. Chairman, which-reads- as follows : For the exijenses of a commission of five members, to be appointed by tlie- Secretary of the Interior, to thoroughly investigate the conditions of the Cali- fornia Indians with a view to determining the appropriations required and. the policy to be pursued, $15,000; this fund to be immediately available. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 20 1 The Indian Department is opposed to this as an unnecessary ex- pense. Congressman Eaker. May I submit an amendment authorizing Mr. Meritt to strilce out the letter " a," in line 7, and insert in lieu of the word " a " the following, " the United States Board of Indian," and then' strike out the five members to be appointed by the Secre- tary of the Interior, change $15,000 to $5,000, so it would read, " for the expenses of the United States Board of Indian Commissioners to thoroughly investigate," and so on, and the rest of the section? . Now, Mr. Dockweiler, a member of that commission, is here, and would like to say a word. I The commission are thoroughly competent men from all over the United States ; they are doing this work now and they will be ready to come back here and report. I How would you feel about that, Mr. Meritt, if the committee would allow an amendment of that kind? Mr. Meritt. The appropriation for the Board of Indian Commis- sioners is carried in the bill and there is an appropriation of $10,000 for that purpose. That appropriation was increased a few years ago from $5,000, I believe, to $10,000. There is a member of the Board of Indian Commissioners living in the State of California, and the board has ample funds with which to make investigations of the Indian reservations, and if they will simply allot part of their present appropriation for that purpose I am sure that they can make a report to the Secretary of the Interior without any further appropriation. Congressman Raker. You will have money enough in the fund with which to do it. Mr. Meritt. And in addition to that I will state we will also make an investigation ourselves in the Indian Service and have avail- able information on the subject. Mr. Dockweiler. Mr. Chairman, my impression is that this is to a certain extent limited to reservation Indians ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Your appropriation would be available. Mr. Dockweiler. Now, it has occurred, I think, during the last two years that we have not used all of the $10,000, but if a special survey should be made of the California Indians, it will require con- siderable work and probably the employment of special investiga- tors; you couldn't very well expect a member of the board to per- ipnally collect all of this data. It occurs to me that it would be advantageous to have a small ap- propriation for that purpose, and if we don't use it to revert it back. Senator Gronna. Don't you think, Mr. Dockweiler, that the State authorities of California would be willing to cooperate in getting- this information in case that was .brought to their attention? It. s^ems to me they could do it more cheaply than any other board. I think I should oppose any further appropriation for- a special com- mittee. . .. Mr. Dockweiler. Senator Gronna, the State authorities are only tpo willing to cooperate in any way, but oftentimes, in special cases,, it is necessary for some one to supervise a particular- situation or to. i.Ove.stigate personally different situations. 106080—19 14 .0 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. I do think, although I have not consulted the memberg of the board, that a small appropriation could be used to very considerable advantage. Senator Gronna. I realize that what you say is true. Doctor, but it occurs to me that with the cooperation of the Indian Office with the bureau, and I am sure that they will be glad to cooperate, and with the cooperation of the State and your commission, that that work can be done at very small expense. And though I am willing to vote for these other two appropriations, I don't think we should continue to make these appropriations from year to year -until we have something that is more tangible. I realize this, that the Government owes these nonreservation In- dians something; they are unable to take care of themselves; they have been thrown on their oAvn resources without qualifications to maintain a livelihood; and I think the Government certainly owes them something. I realize that, but I think it ought to be done in a more thorough businesslike way. We are going at it in a sort of haphazard way every year, and really we are not accomplishing anything. I don't say but what the department has done all it can with the appropriation it has had, but it has been admitted here by the peo- ple from California that the lands which — if I understood the state- naent of Prof. Collett — have been purchased were not adaptable to agricultural purposes, and it seems to me that we ought to exercise more care in using public funds. If you buy lands up in the mountains — and I presume you have mountains up in California or any other State, except my own — if you. buy these worthless lands, they probably are not worth a dollar an acre Congressman Kakee. I do not think that Mr. Collett meant what he said in regard to the worthless land. Now, I have seen many of these places where they have pur- chased lands, and the facts and the conditions are these: They have bought, for instance, down near Sonora, a tract of land of about 2,000 acres, valuable land lying in a good location, of proper altitude, but no water. A land without water is absolutely useless. That is the situation. Senator Gronna. Well, they are worthless. His statement, then, was correct. Congressman Eaker. If you get the water on the lands you hav« got a valuable tract of land. Senator McNart. If! Congressman Eaker. Well, in justice to Mr. Collett's statement and the commissioner's statement, the land is valuable land, but with no water you can not do anything with it. Mr. Meritt. On son\e of the land we are developing a water sup- ply; we are_ using the appropriation to develop the water supply for the Indians. The Acting Chairman. Does the committee understand, Mr-. Meritt, that during the next year the Indian Bureau will make a thorough investigation of this entire California situation and present a report to the committee concerning it? Mr. Meritt. We have ample funds with which to make that in- vestigation, the board of Indian commissioners also has an appro- INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 211 priation for investigation purposes, and we will make our investiga- tion and report without asking for an additional appropriation. ''Congressman Raker. Under the statement of Mr. Meritt — I be- lieve in getting through with the business — and the statement of Mr. Dockweiler, the United States Commissioner of Indian Affairs is to make an investigation and present to this committee or to Congress or to the House or to the Senate next year a report. I would like to withdraw, as far as I am concerned, this last, amendment, I think, in justice to the commission. The AcTI^'o Chairtmax. If there is no objection it is so ordered. Congressman Kaker. Now, Mr. Chairman, this disposes of the California matters generally. Senator Gronna. Not yet ; we haven't adopted it yet. Congressman Raker. Well, I meant so far as we are concerned. Now, may I, without trespassing upon too much of your time, have not to exceed 5, 6, or 7 minutes — I will try to get through in 4 min- utes, if I can — on another item here? The Acting Chairman. Proceed, Judge. Congressman Raker. The committee has passed over the item, and, Mr. Meritt, I would like to have you hear this, because I know you will agree with me. Commencing on page 23, lines 23,- 24, and 25, and lines 1, 2, and 3, on page 24, of your, proposed bill the item re- lates to the Greenville Indian school. Senator McNart. That has been passed upon. Congressman Raker. Would there be a possible chance to get ■another item in there? Senator McNart. More money ? Congressman Raker. Yes. The Acting Chairman. What is it. Judge? GREENVILLE INDIAN SCHOOL. Congressman Raker. This is the proposition : There is an item in there for $5,000. I have been at this school many times and in front of the school — why it was done I don't know, but it was done— Here comes the public road like that [indicating] in front of the school building and a tract of land cut out like that [indicating], owned by a private individual, and on that are missionary buildings and other buildings so that there is no access to this land from the public road at all. That is little enough, but we can purchase that with this appropriation. . „ i t j- • • • ^.i. Within the last year there was a tract of land adjoining m the forest reserve, 320 acres, and we were figuring on having a bill passed to donate that to the school, but with the assistance of the Indian Commission and the Department of the Interior and all of the services, we have had set aside 320 acres of this forest-reserve land for the use of the school for the purpose of timber and also in instructing these Indians in regard to forestry, etc. Now, there is no water supply for this school, except a trickling amount. There is a tract of land lying west of the school, about 320 acres, a splendid farm, which could be had at a reasonable price, and on which all kinds of vegetables could be raised, hay, timothy, and all the other things, such as corn, tomatoes, everything that goes to the upkeep of the school. 212 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL, 1920. This place has an Al water right which is sufficient to irrigate this land and to- furnish water for this school.. If a fire should occur they haven't any system by which to put the fire out ; they have no water on which to irrigate any part of it, and I am asking this committee to increase this appropriation to $9,000. The Acting Chairman. You mean $9,000 in addition to the $5,000? Congressman Eaker. 'No; if you take out $3,000 of that, if you could add to that, say, $5,000 more, it will cover the improvement?' they want. Senator McNaey. You mean that in addition to the $5,000 pro-« vided in the House bill, which was agreed to for the development and installation of a water supply; you want an additional appro- priation ? Congressman Eakee. Yes ; , that's the idea. Senator McNaet. How much more in addition do you want? Congressman Raker. We are willing to take $3,000 of that and put $5,000 to it or $6,000 to it, add $6,000 more to the bill ; then we would get this land and the water rights. Now, with the money provided for there, it will only make it temporary; they will put in a few more tanks in the reservoir, and we will be in the same position, because it will have to be developed. Senator McNary. You want $9,000, then, do you, in that item ? , Senator Kendrick. $9,000 instead of $5,000. Congressman Eaker. Yes, sir; $10,000 instead of $5,000. We can buy this land, which will make that school self-sustaining,, so far as hay and all kinds of vegetables are concerned, and, in addi- tion to that, it is adjudicated water right, a prior right, and is sufficient to irrigate that land, and the elevation is such that they can bring a perpetual supply, winter and summer, for this school, and it will be of inestimable value to the property which the Gov- ernment already owns. Senator Spencer. Who owns the intervening land ? Congressman Eaker. It adjoins this, but there will be no trouble about that. I didn't bring any data showing this, but the superin- tendents and the agents have been doing everything they can; the Indian Service is very willing to help us, but this question of funds— and I say to you, gentlemen, your property there is in danger every minute, and the lives of those children are in danger; there is no water supply at that school by which they can put out any fire; there is not a bit of water by which they can irrigate and cultivate the land around that building. It is one of the finest and most ideal sites in the country and one of the most productive lands in the 3tate, so far as agricultural purposes are concerned. A railroad has come in within the last two years; they are only, about 7 miles from the railroad, and it will be a school that can be maintained much more reasonably than it has been in the past. Senator McNary. Was this matter submitted to the House Indian Affairs Committee? ' Congressman Raker. No; because I appeared two or three times before the House committee, and they say that the Commissioner of Indian Affairs has estimated that ip.atter and they wouldn't take up arn3i;hing but the estimate. But my hqpes always have been and I have gotten results right here. , INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 213 Senator McNary. Have you proposed the situation to the House committee this year or at any former time? Congressman Raker. Yes ; at a former time. Senator !McXary. And they turned you down ? Congressman Raker. They liave always given me something up to this time. Senator McNary. Did you go before them this year at all? Congressman Raker. No. Senator jNIcNart. Have you presented it to the commissioner? Congressman Raker. Yes. Senator McNary. What does he think ? Congressman Raker. "Well, I haVen't seen his report, and I don't know what it is, but here is the place I hope to get it — I might just as well be frank with you ; here is the only place we can get it, in the committee of the Senate. Senator Kendrick. What was the extent of that water right, Judge ? Congressman Raker. Well, I suppose it would be aboiit 150 inches of water and 1-inch pressure. Senator Kendrick. It ought to be worth $9,000, then. Congressman Raker. The land and the water right would improve tlie property all the time ; it would add untold value to that school. Senator Kendrick. What do you think of it, Mr. Commissioner ? ■ Mr. MERirr. At the time we submitted our estimates to Congress this country was at war, and we kept our estimates down to the lowest possible point. We realized that we needed at that school additional lands, and we are glad to have this appropriation in the bill ; "but it will be necessary to add to the language, after the word " supply," " and the purchase of land," so as to give us the author- ity — without that specific authority we could not use this appropria- .tion for that purpose. Senator Kendrick. What as to the water situation there at this time — ^have you any water for irrigation at all at the Indian school ? Mr. Meritt. Very little water for irrigation, just sufficient water for school purposes. Senator Kendrick. You mean for garden purposes ? Mr. Meritt. For garden purposes and for the dormitories. Congressman Raker. There is none for irrigation at all — none whatever. Senator Kendrick. How many children are in the school ? Mr. Meritt. One hundred and twenty-five. Senator Kendrick. And may I ask — and this is intended to throw light on the whole situation — are these children employed at all in the cultivation of the land? Congressman Raker. These children at this school, Senator, are given all kinds of instructions, anything that will go to make up a useful citizen in the way of education in the land they have there, in the way of forestry, blacksmithing, or anything else. Senator Kendrick. Any agriculture at all? "■ Congressman Raker. They bought some years ago a small tract of land and they almost maintain their cost now. We got a small tract four years ago too, but we didn't get the tract we wanted be- cause we couldn't get the money to btiy this other tract with the water rights. 214 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Kendeick. Mr. Chairman, it is my idea that when yoi come to running a school, it is like anything else, you want to do i right or abandon the school. Congressman Eakee. Senator, if you abandon this school the; would hang me. The Acting Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committe with respect to the proposed amendment? Do you desire to pas upon it now ? Senator Gkonna. Let us take it up, Mr. Chairman. As I under stand it, we have not acted on any of the amendments yet and '. would suggest that we take up the first amendment. Congressman Raker. I would like to accept Mr. Meritt's amend ment and make that $10,000 Mr. Meeitt. Purchase of land and water rights? Congressman Raker. Yes ; put that at $10,000. The Acting Chairman. If I understand it, it is the sense of th committee that we will pass that. Senator Geonna. I shall object to it until I have a chance to loci into it. The Acting Chairman. The matter will then go over. Senator Gronna. It has not been estimated for. The Acting Chairman. What is the further pleasure of the com mittee ? Senator Curtis. As I understand it, you want to vote on the firs amendment, don't you. Senator? Senator Geonna. Yes. Senator Curtis. The $20,000 item. The Acting Chairman. The first amendment commences on lini 1 of page 1 and ends on line 2 of page 2, the proposed amendmen by Senator Ashurst. What is the pleasure of the committee wit! respect to that amendment? Senator Curtis. You misunderstood me; I thought Senate: Gronna suggested that we act on the first amendment of the Cali fornia items and get rid of California. Senator McNaet. That is a California amendment. Senator Curtis. Oh, I hadn't heard it read. The Acting Chairman. Let the record show that this amendmen was proposed by Senator Ashurst for Mr. Phelan. What is the de sire of the committee ? Senator Spencer. Is that the $20,000 tuberculosis item? The Acting Chaieman. Yes. Senator Spencee. I move that it be agreed to. (Without objection, the amendment was agreed to.) The Acting Chaieman. What is the further pleasure of the com mittee? Do you desire to pass upon the next item? (At this point a discussion was had between Senator Kendrick am Senator MoNary which the reporter was instructed not to take.) Senator Kendeick. Mr. Meritt, I ask this question : Are the peopl of California now educating these children ; are they furnishing ther schools ? Mr. Meeitt. There are a large number who are not being educatec Senator Cuetis. There are 625 Indian children in California tc day without school facilities, according to their last report. I INDIAN APPROPRIATIOBT BILL, 1920. 215 Senator Kendkiok. Well, I stand where I did before. It is a re- sponsibility — if the State don't want to assume it, I want the Nation to assume it. Senator Gronna. I agree with you on that, because in my State we are educating them. Senator Jones of New Mexico. I have understood that the Indian Office had adopted the policy of getting the schools as close to the Indians as possible, rather than having them off the reservation, and that that policy is being adopted, so f £fr as it can be. How is that, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. "We have three classes of Indian schools. The first is the day school on the reservation; the second, the reservation board- ing school, which is located on the reservation ; and, then, the third class, the nonreservation boarding school. The ideal way of educating the Indians, to our mind, is to place them in the public schools with white children, so that they' may go to school during the day and return home at night, and they would get the benefit of association with the white children during the day and would bring to the Indian home the information that they got during the day with this white association. That is the ideal way of Educating Indians up to a certain point. We are in favor of educat- ing children in the community in which they live, wherever it is practicable and school facilities are available. Senator Jones of New Mexico. I understood that that was the policy of the department, and, so far as I am concerned, that meets ■with my approval. I think it ife the most expensive system that could possibly be devised, to have these children taken off to a board- ing school, and I think it is the worst thing for the children them- selves. ■ If you can bring the schools near to the reservations and nobody attends the local schools except the Indian children themselves, I , think it is far better than carting them off to some other countrv, and the sooner we can get that general policy adopted the cheaper it will be to the Government and the better it will be for the Indians. Besides, it brings into a community where the school is established a very wholesome influence ; it dtsvelops an atmosphere there that is good 'not only for the children but for all the Indians living in th« vicinitv ; and from an economical point of view, an efficient point of view, for the good of the .Indians themselves, I would say that this policy should be adopted and extended as far as possible. . Senator Gronna. This item here does not apply to a reservation at all ; these are homeless Indians scattered over the country, living among the whites. Senator Jones of New Mexico. I understand that, except where they have built up living communities of these Indians. Senator Curtis. I want to ask Mr. Meritt one question. I stated a moment ago that there are some 600 Indian children in California without school facilities. Will this $30,000 appropriated by the Government for the State of California provide the school facili- ties for the 627 school children now ? ' Mr. Meritt. This appropriation, if provided by Congress, will mean the building of 30 schoolhouses in California in Indian districts. Each schoolhouse should provide for 20 pupils. 216 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Curtis. For only 20 pupils in a day school ? Mr. Mekitt. On an average there will be 20 pupils attending these ^0 day schools. That would provide for 600 Indian children, which would take care of nearly all the Indian children out of school. Senator McNart. Mr. Chairman, Senator Gronna makes refer- ence to homeless Indians scattered throughout the country. Either he or I am laboring under a false apprehension. As I understand this appropriation, it is for the education of children of merit, gen- erally, for school purposes, and it is not confined to destitute and homeless children. Senator Geonna. I do not understand that that is the case. , Senator McNart. Then, I do not understand the reading of this amendment. Mr. Meeitt. Senator Gronna suggested that the item be amended so as to make it applicable to nonreservation Indians only. Senator McNaet. Oh, I was thinking of this — thank you; that w?as when I was away. The Acting Chairman. The Senator from Oregon has moved that ihe second item in the proposed amendment read as follows: For the erection and equipment of scliool Ileuses in California for public scliool purj»oses for nonresident Indians, .$30,000, provided that not to exceed 3f2,000 shall be expended for the erection and equipment of each building. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Mr. Chairman, as far as I am con- cerned, while I always dislike to oppose anythiiig that looks toward public education of the Indians, yet in as much as we are going to expect a report on this California situation from the department next year, I shall vote for Senator McNary's motion because I think we had better defer it until we get that report. The Acting Chairman. Does the Chair understand. Senator Gronna, that you move to strike out the words " in cases of merit " ? Senator Gronna. Yes ; I want them all to have an opportunity, if you are going to have the school there at all ; I want all Indian chil- dren to have an opportunity to go to the school. The Acting Chairman. Then the proposed item as amended reads as follows: For the erection of schoolhouses in California for public-school purposes for nonreservation Indians $30,000, and provided that not to exceed $2,000 shall be expended for the erection and equipment of each building. Mr. Meritt. Also provided that this appropriation shall not be- come available until the local authorities of the State of California, shall provide one-half the expenses of erection of such school build- ings, under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. Senator McNary. What means are provided there for the employ-, ment of teachers? Mr. Meeitt. The State will supply the teachers. Senator McNaet. Does that say so ? Mr. Meritt. That is our understanding — that the Federal Govern- ment will not be called upon to pay one cent for the teachers. Senator Curtis. Why do you not add a further provision for the supplying of the necessary teachers ? Senator Gronna. I was going to say that if you add there that the State of California shall furnish the teachers with these schools, we shall have no objection to it. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 217 Senator Jones of New Mexico. And maintain the school ? Mr. Mekitt. And maintain the schools. Senator Cttetis. Furnish the teachers and maintain the schools. Senator Jones of New Mexico. As a gamble, I would almost be willing to vote for that, but I still think that we ought to get a report an that and find out just how far the State of California ought to go in this matter. Senator Spencer. How does this amendment read now ? Mr. Mebitt (reading) : Provided further That this appropriation shall not become available vintil the local authorities of the State of California shall provide one-half the expenses tor the erection o:£ several school buildings, under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe, and also supi)ly the necessary teachers and maintain the said schools. Senator Kendeick. If we are going to carry out that part of the toendment, should not the length of time be stated within which to maintain the school?. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Why not have the State of Califor- nia contract for the building of the schools ? I think the State ought to build the schoolhouses and furnish the architect. Senator Kendrick. Mr. Chairman, I believe a good plan Avould be to defer action until we have a full report on the situation. Senator Geonna. I think so. Senator McNart. My motion to disallow or disapprove the amend- ment is before the Chair. (The motion was agreed to.) (The next amendment was, on page 24, line 2, changing $5,000 to $10,000 in the appropriation for installation of water supply at the ■Greenville school.) Senator Jones of New Mexico. I move that that amendment be aDowed. Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, two years ago we were about to abolish those two schools because of the very great expense, and if you add to these you are going to get those schools in such shape that they will always be maintained. It is now costing $240 for 'every 'pupil at those schools, and I for one think that before you add .Anything to it you had better find out if the locations are the best for those schools. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Then I think we ought to strike out the whole item. Senator Curtis. You have got the item there, you can see tor your- , self. It costs $240 for each pupil. Senator Jones of New Mexico. My notion is this: Judge Kaker s statement about the necessity there impressed me very much, and I think Senator Kendrick's remark was quite apropos— that it we are ;-going to do anything at all we ought to do it right. ' Senator Curtis. The question .is. Do you know that you want to maintain the school there? ,, ^ •,, ^.i ^ ^.i. Two years ago there was such a conflict on that item that the com- 'mittee came very near abolishing the two schools, and the depart- ment aereed if we would stop the fight that they would reduce the expens^ which then I think was $283 a pupil, and they have reduced it to $240. 218 IXDIAK APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. It was costing $280, or about that, per pupil two years ago. Now, I think we ought to build up schools, but we ought to build them in communities where we know they will be of benefit and where there will be plenty of pupils to attend. The total minor population at this Greenville is only 277. Senator McNaet. Minor population ? Senator Curtis. Yes. Senator Kendeick. Well, isn't it true. Senator, that there are chil- dren in other places? Senator Ctjetis. Well, I don't know; it is so far away, I under- stand. Mr. Meeitt. This is what is known as a nonreservation school^ we gather children from northern California and place them in that school. Senator Cuetis. This one here ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; we already have the plant constructed, and they have 29 buildings there, worth $69,613. It would cost a great deal of money to build this plant somewhere else, probably $100,000: Senator Cuetis. You say it is a good place for a school, where a school should be maintained ? Mr. Meeitt. As long as the buildings are already constructed we' think the school should be continued there for the present, because it is more economical. Senator Cuetis. Are there reservations near there? Mr. Meeitt. There are Indians living in that immediate com- munity. " Congressman Eakee. There is no reservation there at all ? Mr. Meeitt. No reservations at all; but they live on the public- domain. Senator Geonxa. Senator Curtis, you will remember that we went into this thing two years ago and I was one of the members who was very much in favor of making an increased appropriation for the Greenville school — that is the one we are talking about, is it ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Geonna. And while it may be true that the per capita payment is high yet I think under the circumstances it is warranted, at least that is my belief after I had gone very thoroughly into- it. Senator Kendeick. But you would not call $280 high, would you? Senator Geonna. Yes; we call that high, $280 per capita. Mr. Meeitt. You will note, Senators, on page 145 of the hearings we set out the cost of this school and the per capita cost of enroll ment is only $160 ; but the per capita cost on the average attendance- is $249. That is, a small school, and the overhead charges make it necessarily expensive. Senator Curtis. As far as I am concerned, I withdraw my objec- tion. Senator Geonna. I think we ought to allow that item. Senator Kendeick. I am sure we ought to allow it or abandon the- school. Senator Jones of New Mexico. I move the item be made $10,000. The Acting Ci-iaieman. It is moved that on line 2, of page 24, thfr numerals $5,000 be stricken out and the numerals $10,000 be inserted in lieu thereof. INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 219' Mr. Meeitt. And also to add the words " and the purchase of ilant and water rights " before $10,000. Senator Geonna. Mr. Chairman, may I be pardoned; I thought pe were on the Greenville item. ; Congressman Raker. This is Greenville. 'Senator Gronna. Is there a provision to buy more land ? Senator Curtis. That is what they want. Senator Gronxa. Well, I didn't have reference to that. That has lothing to do with the per capita payment of the schools. Senator Curtis. The point I was making is, do we want to put his additional money into this school until we have fully determined hat it is a school that will be maintained right along? f Senator Gronna. I don't want to buy any more land, for one, Senator Curtis. I want to have appropriated enough money to take iare of these children, but I do not want to authorize the purchase of my more land. I" Senator Jones of New Mexico. I do not know whether you heard Judge Eaker's statement about it or not, but as I understood him ;he situation is this : That we might spend that $5,000 in there and itill have only a temporary water supply, but he, tells us that by pur- ihasing this farm, that is right near there, that we can get a per- nanent water supply and have land which can be used. Senator Gronna. Yes, Senator Jones ; I heard his statement, but I ivould like to have a report — while I know that Judge Eaker is prob- ibly quite familiar with it yet I think the department ought to make % report on it before we authorize the purchase of more land. Senator Jones of New Mexico. It seems to me that we ought not ;o authorize the $5,000, then, from what Judge Raker said ; that we 3Ught to strike out the item altogether, because, if you are going to- »et a permanent water supply there, the other plan strikes me as being the decidedly better one. Senator Gronna. Well, as I understand it this is including the ievelopment and installation of a water supply ; that doesn't author- ize the purchase of any more land, does it, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Jones of New Mexico. I understand that that item simply neans a temporary affair, and the other would mean something that IS worth while and would be permanent. Senator Geonna. Is that the idea, Mr". Meritt? Mr. Meritt. That is so. Senator ; if we are permitted to purchase ;his land it will enable us to reduce the per capita cost at that school, Decause we can raise vegetables on this land from the labor of the jhildren, and it will be a very material help to that school. Senator Jones of New Mexico. It will be a part of the teaching of he school. Senator McNary. You have had a school there for 20 years and TOu have never touched this matter before, have you ? Mr. Meritt. We have asked for authority to purchase a dairy lerd for that school, and we -thought next year we would ask for luthority to purchase the land, but at the time we made up these sstimates the country was at war, and it was our purpose to defer that •equest for another "year — but nOw that the war is over we would be 'lad to have this item in the bill. 220 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Gijonna. Mr. Meritt, you T\'ill remember — at least I re- member very well — after the subcommittee made a report on the Greenville School, that it was stated, and I think the record will bear me out, that if the Greenville School was allowed a certain amount— I have forgotten what it was — that no more land would be needed for that school. I remember that very distinctly. But if it is the wish of the committee to put it in, of course, I don't want to oppose it. Do you think it is cheaper to buy the water supply in this waj' than it would be to get water in some other way. Senator Jones of New Mexico. If it were abandoned, it strikpg me that we would have something that would bring a return to ttie Government for this $10,000, but if we spend the $5,000 it would not mean anything ; it would not be worth anything on a sale. (The amendment proposed by the Senator from, New Mexico (Mr. Jones) was agreed to.) Mr. MERriT. Senator Gronna offered the following amendment: That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to sell and convey two acres of land sitii-'ited in township one hundred and flfty-two, north of range sixty-five, west of the fifth principal meridian in North Dnkotii, situated in the Fort Totten Indian School and Agency Reservation, and de- scribed as follows : Beginning at the northwest corner of the northwest quarter of northwest quarter, section twenty-one, township one hundred and fifty-two, north of range sixty-five west, fifth principal meridian in North Dakota, and j-unning south twenty rods on the section line, thence east sixteen rods, thence north twenty rods, thence west sixteen rods on the section line to the point of beginning, to the public-school district in which the land is situated, at not less than the appraised valuation. We have suggested the amendment to read as follows : Pro-vided, That Indian children shall be permitted to' attend any school es- tablished thereon, on an equality with wliite children. Senator Gkonjsa. I am very glad to accept the modification; in fact, I simply overlooked putting that in. Mr. Meritt. That should go in at the bottom of page 37. (The amendment was agreed to.) EEI:^[BUESEMEKT OF Benton CouNaT, Iowa. Senator Gronna. Now, Mr. Chairman, may I have just a moment On the 26th of February the Senate passed a bill which Senatot McCumber, my colleague, introduced, providing for $676 to reim- burse Benton County for money paid out for transportation of a certain number of insane Indians. I think the department is quite willing to allow it. because it is a matter that had to be taken care of, and if there is no objection I should like to have that go in on the North Dakota items. What do you say about that. Mi-. Meritt? Mr. MEKriT. We have no objection to that item going on the bill. (Without objection, the amendment was agreed to.) New Mexico, salary of indian attorney. Senator Jones of New Mexico. I suppose. Mr. Chairman, I might as well bring up a little item in regard to the New Mexico provision which I understand was passed over the other day. It is in refard INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 22 X ;p the salary of the Indian attorney out there, and I may say that for some little time there has not been any attorney there because ive were unable to get some one to accept the position. Senator Curtis. How is the business getting along without the at- torney; fairly well* Senator Jones of New Mexico. Well, I have a letter here, which I thought I would read, which explains the situation. Mr. Francis C. Wilson, who was the attorney out there for the Indians for some time, has written a letter to Judge Hanna, who has now accepted this position, and he accepted the position with tlie understanding that we would present the matter to this committee and see if the com- mittee was willing to recognize the amount of work that is to be done there, and before he accepted it he got a letter — or rather he asked Mr. Wilson, who had formerly been the attorney for the In- dians, to write him the situation, and that was sent on to me, and I thought I could see at once that it would be necessary to have the salary considerably increased if j^ou are going to get a man who was capable of doing that work. Judge Hanna, until recently, has. been chief justice of the State ; he is a lawyer of about 40 years of age and one of the best lawyers in the State; he has accepted that position with the understanding that the matter would be canvassed By this committee. .. Senator Gronna. What is the amount, Senator? Senator Jones of New Mexico. Well, I will just read this letter from Mr. Wilson, who was formerly the attorney there, to Judge Hanna, which explains the situation. (The letter referred to is here printed in full, as follows:) Santa Fe, N. Mex., January J/, 1919. Hon. RicHAED H. Hanna, Santa Fe, N. 3fcx. Dear Stk: With reference to the position as special attorney for the Pueblo Indians of New Mexico, concerning which you have asked me, I am glad to give you any information which I can. At present I have no connection with the Indians and have not had since 1914, when I resigned, but I have since that date represented some of the Indians in various matters, and this has kept me in touch with their needs and necessities. One of the necessities mentioned is that suits to quiet title should he filed on practically every one of the Pueblo grants and purchase grants, in order to determine how much land has been lost through adverse claims of settlers or squatters on their lands and also to perfect the extension of fences and the tolling of the statute of Umltations against the Indians, with reference to rights which have had their inception within the past 10 years adverse to them. Prior to my resignation, and, in fact, for some years when I held the posi- tion, I constantly agitated in the Interior Department and Indian Office the necessity of these suits and of careful surveys being made under the Land Office of Pueblo grants and purchase grants belonging to the Indians, which would include a detailed survey of all small holding claims within their ex- terior boundaries. These surveys were to be made the foundation of suits whjch I have mentioned above, and they were finally made, and I understand are complete in every respect. They were made under the supervision of Mr. Joy, whose work was in every respect careful and painstaking and most effi- cient The plats resulting from these surveys are now on file in the Land Office as I have been informed. The notes also are reposed in that office, and should be utilized at the earliest possible date as a foundation of the suits mentioned The filing of these suits would involve an enormous amount of work and I say this advisedly, because of personal knowledge- I can state ttat there are not less than 15 grants and purchase grants, aggregjtting several hundreds of thousands of acres in all, which should be included in these suits. On the average there are probably 100 or more small holding claims within the- 222 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. exterior boundaries of these grants, and from your own experience you can appre- ciate what this means in the way of talking evidence. The present salary of $1,500 allotted to the special attorney for the Pueblo Indians is altogether in- sufficient for this purpose, and yet anyone who assumes the office would, if he conscientiously discharged the duties of same, proceed at once with these suits. If he is billing to draw the salary without performing any services for the same, he can, of course, avoid this labor ; but ultimately there will be a time of reckoning against the Government in respect to its failure to preserve such lands as these Indians have left to them by the means which I have mentioned. There is hardly a Pueblo grant where the Indians are not losing lands con- stantly under adverse claims, which have ripened under the statute of limita-' tlons, and these lands are, of course, always the best which the Indians own' and possess. No man who is capable of conducting such suits and of cf.rryiijg them through to their logical conclusion should receive less than $5,000 a year for his services, for the reason that all his time will be occupied with the wotk until it is completed. The present salary is wholly inadequate, and it is im- possible to hope to get a man for that amount who could efficiently do the worl; for the Indians and save them all that it is possible to save, even though the suits were filed at once. I trust the foregoing information is what you need, but if I can assist you any further in this connection, please advise me, .and I will do so If it is -within my knowledge and power. Yours, very truly, Feancis C. Wilson. Senator Curtis. The question is, Senator, how much longer is this going to last? That attorney has been employed out there, ac- cording to my recollection, for about 15 years, and maybe longer. Senator Spencer. Well, the duties performed by that attorney here- tofore have been looking after the smaller matters relating to the Indian business out there ; trespass upon lands and looking after thei¥ interests in various ways. Senator Curtis. But I understand he was also to look after their rights under land grants and help eject trespassers and defend their' rights. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Now, it seems to me in the course of 15 or 20 years that this ought to be pretty well settled. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Well, Mr. Wilson in this letter states why it is just as necessary now to. bring these suits, the data which was necessary in order to bring the suits in an intelligent way has just been ascertained or gotten together, and there isn't any ques- tion, no matter what has been done in the past, there isn't any ques- tion but what these suits should be brought. Senator Curtis. But that isn't the question. What I .am trying to ascertain is when are sonje of these matters going to end? They started out by saying it would last a few years, and it comes on year after year. If it is necessary to employ a lawyer for two or three years and pay him a good salary, I am perfectly willing ; I thinli; those Indians ought to be defended. Senator Jones of New Mexico : That was my purpose here. These appropriations are made from year to year, and at the end of another year we will have a report made as to what has been done here and see how it is progressing, but it is evident that it is necessary to bring these suits at this time. Senator Geonna. I should think it would be economy to get a good man. Senator Jones of New Mexico. It undoubtedly will be economy to get a good man. IKDIAN APPROPEIATIOSr BILL, 1920. 223 Senator Cttktis. But they have been telling us all this time that we have good men. Senator Jones of New Mexico. But not for this work. Assuming that they had good men, this work is new work. Senator McNary. Let me ask you, Has the Federal Government any adverse interests there? Senator Jones of New Mexico. No. Senator McNaet. Then why should we maintain a department of justice of the Interior and a general Department of Justice; why shouldn't the officials now paid look after the rights of these Indians'? Senator Jones of New Mexico. Well, I think that we might, if you think best, get the Department of Justice to appoint a special United States attorney to take charge of this work ; I think that it might be done, but as long as you are going to have an attorney tliere to look after other matters of the Indians it occurs to me that it would be advisable to have the same man do it all. I haven't any ,doubt but what if the Department of Justice were to appoint a special United States attorney to take charge of that work that that attorney would get a good deal more than the $5,000 a year out of it. Senator McNaet. I thought generally — it is true in my State — that any affairs with regard to the rights of the Indian property is looked after by the Federal district attorney and' the assistant in his office; that is the duty which he has under the statute toward wards of the Government. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Oh, yes ; there isn't any doubt about that, and how the policy began of appointing special attorneys for these Indians I do not know. It has existed for a number of years. Senator McNaey. Is this money paid out of the tribal funds or out of the funds of the Government ? Senator Jones of New Mexico. There are no tribal funds as far as I know ; this is an appropriation by the Government. Now, I don't think any reputable attorney would take up one of those suits for less than a retainer of a couple of thousand dollars. • Senator Kendeick. Well, no attorney of my acquaintance would do anything that he didn't 'have to do withoiit a lot of pay. Senator McNaey. That is hardly the point. We employ a 'United States district attorney and give him plenty of assistance to look after all cases of this character. Senator Jones of New Mexico. Well, if we don't do this, it will mean the appointment of a special United States attorney down there to take charge of this work, and it will have cost us a good deal more than if you had an attorney to look after the hundred and one other things that must be looked after for the Indians. Senator McNaey. How many years will it take to provide an attor- ney to clear this up ? Senator Jones oi New Mexico. Well, I don't know. Certainly it would take less time if he devotes all of his time to it than if he lid not. I want to increase the amount there from $2,500 to $5,000; hat includes his expenses as well as his compensation. The Acting Chaieman. The bureau estim?ited the salary at $2,500. Senator Jones of New Mexico. But that was made last year before he question of these suits came up. The Acting Chaieman. And you desire to amend this item ? 224 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Jones of New Mexico. I want to amend that item by strik- ing out " $2,500" and inserting " $5,000." The Acting Chairman. The Senator from New Mexico moves to. amend the item by striking out the numerals " $2,500 " and inserting, in lieu thereof " $5,000." Senator Joio amended was aereed to.) 228 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Meritt. That is on page 42, line 4; after the word " lease " in sert " excluding oil and gas leases," and on line 7, same page, 42, in sert after " leases " the words " except oil and gas leases." (The amendment was. agreed to.) The Acting Chairmadst. Are there any other matters, Mr. Meritt i Support OP Indian Schools. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. We will go back to the beginning of the bill, on page 7, Indian school support. The Senate allowed us our estimate, $1,750,000, but we would lik| to have $25,000 of that amoi^nt immediately available, for the reason that some of our schools may have to close before the fiscal year unless that is allowed. We are not asking for an additional appropri- ation, but simply ask that of this amount $25,000 shall be immediately available. The Acting Chairman. Without objection, it is agreed to. Timber JjAnds — Eed Lake (Minn.) EiJservation. Mr, Meritt. The next item is on page 26, as follows : That not to exceed $50,000 of the funds derived from the sale of timber from the Red Lake Incjian Forest, Minn., under authority of the act of May 18, 1916 (39 Stat. L., p. 137), may be expended by the Secretary of the Interior in payment of the expenses authorized by said act, and in the logging, booming, towing, and manufacture of timber at the Red Lake Agency sawmill. That is the item on which Senator Nelson opposed the appropria- tion of $50,000. We can not possibly do the work required by IsijW with an appropriation of less than $40,000. Senator McNart. Mr. Chairman, there is not a quorum bere, and, where there is a large item, I think it would be better to pass it until we have a fuller attendance to-morrow morning. The Acting Chairm;^n. Without objection, it will be passed untij to-morrow morning at 10.30. Senator Curtis. I move we adjourn. Let us have the Indian Com- missioner and the clerk commence at the first item and see if we caa not get through to-morrow morning. Chippewa Indians — Expenses or General Council. The Acting Chairman. Just a moment. I was requested to pre- sent this matter with respect to the Chippewa Indians. I think it was desired, and I agreed to do so in order that we may pass on it.^ It is desired to reinstate House provision commencing on line ^ and ending on line 17, page 28. Senator Curtis. That went out on the motion of, I think. Senator McNary. The Acting Chairman. There was a doubt in my mind with re- spect to that matter, as to whether it had been rejected or not. Mr. Meritt. That was fully discussed before the committee, Mr. Chairman, and the committee struck out the language after the word " available " in line 13, to the end of line 17, after a thorough discus- sion, and we would have to open up that discussion again and vigor- ously oppose that amendment. INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 229 The Acting Chairman. Is there any disposition on the part of the committee to do that ? It has been proposed to insert an amendment at the' end of line 17, appropriating $5,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to defray the expenses of the Indian delegation that is supposed to be representing the Chippewas. Senator McNaky. Does that include the personnel of the two dele- gations ? The Acting Chairman. I am sure I don't know. Mr. James J. Coffet. Our names are on that amendment, but we know nothing about it. We didn't make the request. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, we are opposed to that amendment, for this reason : The delegation headed by the mixed-blood Indians are attempting to get this item on the bill to pay the hotel bills of Mr. Coffey and his delegation separately from their own delegation, so that the mixed-blood delegation will be given an official status as the representatives of the Chippewa Indians, which we do not care to have go on the bill. We will take care of the hotel bills of Mr. Coffey out of the regular $15,000 item which the Senate committee has agreed to and which I fully explained to the committee heretofore. The Acting Chairman. Does the committee desire to consider this matter? If not, we will adjourn. Mr. John W. Carl. Mr. Meritt states that this has been thoroughly discussed. We ha\ren't been given a chance to say anything here up to this time. Every time we got up the other day to say something, to make an explanation, we were told to sit down. The Acting Chairman. How long do you want? Mr. Carl. Half an hour, but as long as the Minnesota matters are going over until to-morrow morning we would just as soon put it over until to-morrow morning if you can't give it to us this evening. The Acting Chairman. WTiat is the pleasure of the committee? Senator Curtis. I do not want to hear anybody to-night. Senator McN'art. I think we had better hear them in the morn- ing. The Acting Chairman. The only other matter which I under- stand has gone over is the matter that Senator Walsh presented here this afternoon; am I right? Senator McNary. Yes ; and I have an amendment that I want to offer on behalf of Eepresentative Sinnott, of Oregon. Mr. Meritt. I think we ought to dispose of these matters to- morrow, unless we give too much time to the Chippewas, which matters have already been fully discussed. Mr. Daniel B. Henderson. Mr. Chairman, there are two Chip- pewa chiefs here who have a matter on which they would like to have 5 or 10 minutes, connected with the bill. It is a matter that has been presented to the department ; it is not on your bill at the present time. It is an amendment they want to have added. The Acting Chairman. Is it connected with this matter? Mr. Henderson. Not at all. It is entirely independent of the Chippewa matters that have been presented to you. ; The Acting Chairman. The committee stands adjourned until 10.30 to-morrow morning. _ ^» (Whereupon, at 5.10 p. m. an adjournment was taken until to- morrow, February 15, 1919, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.) INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1919. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. G. The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.. Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. The Chairman. The committee will come to order. We will now take up the items of the bill that were temporarily passed over and not acted upon. Arizona — Occupation of Eailroad Lands. Mr. Meeitt. The first item is on page 16, line 17. Senator Feenald. Have all been agreed to up to that point? Mr. Meeitt. That is my understanding. We simply ask for authority to extend the law which has heretofore been enacted by Congress. Senator Curtis. I suggest that we tentatively agree to that, and if Senator Jones desires to be heard further in the matter he may do so. • The Chairman. Without objection it will be tentatively agreed to. Crow Indian (Mont.) Reservation. Mr. Meeitt. There were three items that the Crow Indians wanted to be placed in the Indian bill — ^first, the allotments of the newborn children; secondly, the pro rating o'f the tribal herd among the patent in fee Indians ; and, third, the item authorizing the Crow In- dians to go to the Court of Claims. Senator Walsh told me yesterday that he was undecided whether he would agree to these items going on the Indian appropriation bill, and I would ask that this go over tantil Senator Walsh is present. (The item was passed temporarily.) North Caeouna. indian school at cherokee. Mr. Meeitt. The first item is as follows : For support and education of 160 Indian pupils at the Indian school at Cherokee, N. C, including pay of superintendent, $37,800; for general repairs and improvements, $6,000 ; in all, $43,800. 231 232 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920. The House cut down our appropriation for the North Carolina school and reduced the number of children at that school. We would like to have our estimates, inasmuch as the committee has allowed us our estimate on our schools practically through the entire bill. It will be impossible for us to run the school on the amount allowed by the House. Senator Cttetis. What was the attendance there last year? The Chairman. That item was agreed to, I think, at $43,800. Mr. Meeitt. In going over the bill I notice that it is cut to such a point that we can not keep the school running for a full year pn that amount. . . • The Chairman. I say, this committee agreed to that item, I think, in the sum of $43,800. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. I am asking the committee to reconsider it and allow us our estimates at that school ; allow us 200 pupils and a sufficient fund of $46,800, making a total of $52,800 instead of $43,800, an increase of $9,000. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee ? Senator Cuetis. You say that the capacity is only 160. The item is referred to on page 230 of the House hearings. How do you happen to have 29 frame buildings down there ? Mr. Meritt. Those buildings have been there for a great many years. We have an average enrollment at that school of 234, an aver- age attendance last year of 150, and a capacity of 160. By utilizing the dormatories we can run that school up to 200; and, inasmuch as we had an enrollment last year of 234, we would like to have the appropriation for 200 pupils. Senator Curtis. I move that that be agreed to. The Chairman. Without objection, the vote by which the item was agreed to in the sum of $43,800 will be reconsidered, and the item will be agreed to in the amount estimated by the department — $46,800. RBIDGE ACROSS OCONA LUTTT EIVEE, N. C. Mr. Meeitt. Congress, in the act of May 25, 1918, authorized the construction of a bridge across, the Ocon^ Luf ty Eiver, in North Caro- lina. That appropriation is still available, but it will lapse on the 1st of July. Because of war conditions we have not been able to construct that bridge, and we would like to have the appropriation made continuing. I submit the following language. It is a new item : That the sum of .$8,000 appropriated for the construction of a bridge across the Ocona Lufty River at or near the Indian' school at Cherokee, North Carolina, by the act approved May twenty-fifth, nineteen hundred and eighteen (Public, Numbered One hundred and fifty -nine. Sixty-fifth Congress), or so' much thereof as may be required, is hereby reappropriated and made immediately available for the same purpose and under thp same conditions as provided in the said act. Senator Cttetis. Could you not make a contract between, now and ., July 1 and save that I You have thECfe or four months. Mr. Meeitt. Because of the high price of steel we probably will , not be able to make a contract between now and the 1st of July within the appropriation, but conditions are gradually getting nor- mal, and if this money is reappropriated we will be able to. con- struct that bridge within the appropriation within the next year. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILI^, 1920. 233 The Chaiemak. That sum was appropriated for that purpose ? I Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Ctjktis. It is no additional appropriation. ! (The item was agreed to.) I ^ CONVETANCE OF REAL ESTATE. Mr. Meeitt. The next item under North Carolina is as follows: '% Conveyances of real estate or any Interest therein or any other property owned by the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians of North Carolina may be made by or in behalf of said band with their approval, whenever deemed ad- visable by the Secretary of the Interior, upon such terms and in such manner and form as he shall approve. The Chairman. With their approval. How would you construe that, as the unanimous approval? Mr. Meritt. The approval of the business council representing the Indians. We can not carry out the law of Congress heretofore en- acted without this specific authority for the tribe to have this land. Senator Curtis. Are you buying it from the tribe ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. If the Government is maintaining this school and paying all these expenses, why does not the tribe let the Government use the land as other tribes do? What do you want to buy from them for ? If you buy it you will give it back to them and abandon the school and then it is their property. I do not see any reason for doing that when we are using it for their benefit. You have not done that at other schools. Mr. Meritt. The Cherokee Indians of North Carolina own their property there differently from the Indians of other reservations. .Senator Curtis. Oh, no; the Indians of the Five Tribes have pat-' ents, and the Osages have patents, and the Kansas Indiaiis have patents. It is absolute. Of course it is different from some of the , reservations, but you apply that same rule everywhere. The Chairjvian. What is the necessity for it? Mr. Meeitt. The law officers of the department have held that the Clterokee Indians have no authority, without specific legislation of Congress, to convey their lands notwithstanding the Secretary of the Interior may give his approval to it, and it is for the purpose of com- pleting the sale of certain lands for school purposes in North Caro- lina. The Chairman. Are they objecting to the use of this land by the department ? Mr. Meritt. They object to our taking their lands without compen- sation. Senator Curtis. In other words, Mr. Chairman, they had abso- lutely nothing, no schools or anything. The Government provides these schools for them and he is now, according to this bill, spending $53,000 to help them along, and it is the purpose to pay for the lands that we are using for their benefit. I do not think we ought to do it. Mr. Mekitt. I shall not press this matter, but we can not complete the sale without that legislation. 234 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. INDUSTRIAL WORK AND CARE OF TIMBER. Senator Feenald. The item, on page 10, appropriating $475,000 was passed over. Was that subsequently agreed to? I asked that it be cut down to $100,000. Mr. Meeitt. That was afterwards agreed to. Senator Fernald. For the full amount ? Senator Ctjetis. Yes ; that item was under consideration and Sen- ator McNary had requested that it be passed. Senator Fernald. If these people are to become self-reliant, there ought to be some time set to withdraw the funds which are used for educating and taking care of them. I believe these Indians know as much about forestry and probably as much about farming as the teachers we send up there, and to appropriate that money seems nonsense to me. I would like to cut out the whole item, but I think we ought to begin to cut that down 25 per cent until it is entirely, cut out. I do not think it is at all necessary to expend that amount of money. Of course, I realize that I would probably be voted down on this proposition, but it does seem to me that we ought to begin at some time and let these Indians have their rights and place some responsibility upon them. As long as we keep them under control and have some one there to tell them just what they can do we never can expect them to be anything more than mere boys. Senator Curtis. But, Senator, there have been a great many mil- lions of feet of timber stolen from the Indians, and this simply protects them in saving the timber that they have. Senator Fernald. It has been stolen during the protection that we are giving them. Senator Curtis. No ; it was stolen before we began to protect them. It was taken at a time when the matters were intrusted to parties who ought not to have been trusted with their care. These people had $20,000,000 worth of timber, and they got not a dollar out of it. We had advanced them money every year until we advanced them $4,000,000. We changed the law, and now they have $6,000,000 in the Treasury and -the Government has been paid back. If it had gone on as it had been going on, there would not be a dollar in the Treasury to-day to fight over. Senator Fernald. Do you think it is necessary to expend as much as $475,000 for the protection of those lands now ? Senator Curtis. I would take the judgment of the department on that. I do not know, I am sure. Senator Fernald. Of course, we never will cut it until we begin to. However, it has been agreed to, and I have nothing further to say. Oklamoma. osage general election at pawhuska. Mr. Meritt. The next item that we would like to have incor- porated in the bill is after line 16, on page 41. The item was dis- cussed rather extensively a few days ago and fully explained to the committee. It is as follows : IKDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 235 There shall be held on the first Monday in June, nineteen hundred and nine- teen, at Pawhuska, Oklahoma, a general election, at which there shall be elected a principal chief, assistant chief, and eight members of the Osage Tribal Coun- cil : Provided, That the principal chief, assistant chief, and four members of said council shall be full-blood Osage Indians, and four members shall be mixed- blood Osage Indians by blood, all as indicated on the approved rolls of said tribe, and shall be residents of the Osage Nation. In all cases where there is a tie in the vote of the council members on any matter, the principal chief, or in his absence, the assistant chief, shall have a vote. The officers so elected shall hold office for a term of two years from July first, nineteen hundred and nineteen, and such officers shall be elected biannually thereafter, each election to be held under rules and regulations approved by the Secretary of the In- terior, and no officers so elected shall enter upon duty until their election shall have been approved by the Secretary of the Interior. In case of vacancy in the office of principal chief, by death, resignation, or otherwise, the assistant chief shall succeed to said office, and all vacancies in the Osage Tribal Council shall be filled in a manner to be prescribed by the council, in accordance with the provisions of this act as to Osage blood, and with the approval of the Sec- retary of the Interior. The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to remove from the council any member or members thereof for good cause to be by him determined. All acts or parts of acts in conflict herewith are hereby repealed. You will recall that it was explained to the committee a few days ago that in the Osage Nation, where they have about 2,200 Osage In- dians, the mixed bloods have a majority of about 100 in the election of members of the council. As a result of that majority they domi- nated the council, and, notwithstanding the fact that the full bloods own more than one-half of the property of the Osage Nation, the mixed bloods control the council, very much against the wishes of the full-blood Osage Indians. The full bloods have asked for this legi- lation so as to protect them and protect their property interests. It will, of course, be opposed by the mixed-blood Osages. We have had the Osage situation thoroughly investigated, and it is the opinion of the comjnissioner and of Secretary Lane, who has given these matters much of his personal attention, that this legisla- tion is very desirable. I would like to have it incorporated in the biU. Senator La Follette. Would you just briefly state the purpose of that amendment? Mr. Meeitt. This amendment, if enacted, will give four members of the council to the full bloods, and four members to the mixed bloods, and will direct that the chief and the principal chief shall be fuU-blood members of the Osage Tribe. It will give a majority vote in the council to the fuU bloods. The mixed bloods are quite capable of taking care of themselves, and we want the full bloods to be given the opportunity to look after their own interests. Mr. Humphrey. Mr. Chairman, may I be heard by the committee for a few moments? The Chairman. Yes ; we will hear you briefly. STATEMENT OF PAUL HUMPHREY, ATTORNEY AT LAW, PAW- HUSKA, OKLA. Mr. Htjmpheet. In the first place, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Meritt makes two slightly inaccurate remarks. He says the Osage Tribe of Indians is dominated by the mixed bloods. At the same time he does not tell you that the last chief of the Osage Tribe of Indians was 236 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL,, 1920. Fred Lookout, a full-blooded Indian ; that the previous chiefs were full-blooded Indians, and that the Indians themselves have no diffi^ culties arising between the mixed bloods and full bloods as far as the operation of the council is concerned. They work together. It is true they have different conventions. The full bloods have a con- vention in which they put up their ticket. The mixed bloods have a convention at which they put up their ticket, and at the general election they vote. Paul Eed Eagle, assistant chief of the Osage Kation and a full- blood Indian, before he left the city last Wednesdayj requested me to state to this committee — and he himself stated it to Senator M^- Nary before he left — that he, as a full-blood Indian, was opposed to this legislation, and the other full-blood Ihdians would be opposed to it, for this reason : that this legislation, instead of trying to bring the mixed-blood and the full-blood Indians together, does everything it can to separate them and creates a disturbance in the tribe. It is true that if this legislation were enacted: — and I think Mr. Meritt will agree with me in this — in all probability Paul Red Eagle will be the next chief. He was a candidate for chief before the full- blood convention and was defeated by some 2 votes, I think. Eather than run as assistant chief on the full-blood ticket he went over to the mixed bloods and ran as assistant chief of the mixed bloods. At the present time the council is controlled by the mixed-blood chief. Mr. Meritt says that those Indians who were before you the other day showed that they were in support of this amendment. Gentle* men, I think you should know who the Indian was who spoke to you. Bacon Rind is the show Indian of the Osage Tribe. He was former- chief of the Osage Tribe, but the Secretary of the Interior himself deposed Bacon Rind as chief of the Osage Tribe of Indians a few years ago. I do not think Mr. Meritt should produce that evidence before this committee and expect you to believe that testi- mony, and on that testimony adopt this kind of legislation. I had here at the same time Paul Red Eagle, a full-blood Indian, and Francis Claremore, and they did not understand the proposition, and the department does not understand it. Bacon Rind and Ar- thur Bonnicastle and his type of people — -I do not know that they had any mixed bloods, but anyhow the full bloods were here for the specific purpose of opposing the peyote bill, and I would like Mr. Meritt to tell this committee as to whether or not the department paid Bacon Rind's expenses here after he testified for you, I do not know of anything further, Mr. Chairman, that I can say with reference to this matter. I want you to understand that if you adopt this legislation you will split the difference between the tribesj and not only mixed bloods but full_ bloods are doing everything they can and will continue to do everything they can to keep together. Mr. Meritt. In answer to the gentleman's proposition I will state that tbe department did not pay the expenses of Bacon Rind, and Bacon Rind did not ask that those expenses be paid. Supt. Wright, superintendent of the Osage Agency, is here, and I would like to have him speak to the committee on this subject. Mr. HuMPHREx. I asked that question as requested. INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 237 STATEMENT OF MR. J. GEORGE WRIGHT, SUPERINTENDENT I OSAGE AGENCY. Mr. Weight. Mr. Chairman, I would like to say a few words with reference to the Qsage proposition. I have been personally con- nected with the Indian Service for about 35 years, during all of which time I have had responsible positions in charge of agencies in different parts of the country, as well as for 12 years as inspector appointed by different Presidents, and 7 years as commissioner for the Five Civilized Tribes until that office was abolished in 1914, at which time I was asked by the depa,rtment to go to the Osage country. Jfow, on account of the large amount of money that there is in the Osage it has always been a hotbed of graft and corruption. In all my experience everywhere in the Indian Service I have never come in contact with as much graft or tendency to graft as I have found in the Osage country. The act of 1^06, which is the allotment act, provides that there shall be an election of tribal officers every two years. The duties of that council, as defined by that act, and the court here in the District of Columbia in some injunction proceed- ings brought against the Secretary in connection with oil leases which were made several years ago, informally stated that such tribal council was only authorized to do the things which that act pro- vides that they shall do, namely, to lease the oil and gas minerals under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior shall prescribe, that the President of the United States by that act should fix the royalty. A number of years ago there was a council which undertook to make oil and gas leases to different individuals without any compe- tition and without any rules and regulations of the department, and an investigation developed that they had been paid money by oil men who are interested in such leases. The Chairman. That they had paid or had been paid the money? Mr. "Weight. That they had been paid money for these leases, and were to be paid some more money when the leases were finally ap- proved by the department. Very largely as a result of that mat- ter, as I understand it. Secretary Fisher removed another council in 1912 and a number of men who were instrumental in having the council act as they did act were indicted. Some of those men control the present council. « - Senator La Folleite. Were the indicted men members of the tribe? Mr. Weight. I understand two of them were. The Chairman. Was there a trial had under those indictments? Mr. Wright. A trial was had; yes, sir; my understanding is they were all acquitted. The Chairman. All acquitted ? . , ' Mr. Weight. Yes. There was no question ever raised; and no doubt in anybody's mind that that money was passed in the so-ca,lled Gleen oil-lease scandal That was proven beyond any question. ' Senator La Follette. iExcept in the minds of the jury. k Mr. Weight. The next thing. Bacon Eind was removed as chief. '' After that council was removed the mixed bloods at the next election took no part in the election. Consequently a full-blood 238 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. council was elected. There were five full bloods and three mixed bloods, and they were on the council during the time two years ago when the new oil leases were made. When their time expired two years ago, or a year ago last July— the principal chief, m conformity with an act of the tribal council which they passed last May, called a new election. A resolution of the council directed the chief to notify the Indians in different parts of the Osage to have mass meet- ings in different communities for the purpose of selecting delegates to come to a convention at Pawhuska on the 17th day of April, 1918. (At this point the members of the committee were required to re- spond to a call of the Senate, and when they returned — ) ^ The Chairman. You may proceed, Mr. Wright. Mr. Weight. I was about to say that when an election was called by the chief last May, or last spring some time — I do not remember the exact date — the council passed a resolution requesting the. chief to potify the different camps to select delegates to come to Pawhuska for the purpose of selecting candidates for principal chief, assistaat chief, and eight members of the council. That resolution provided that the convention should be; held on the 17th day of April, 1918, and for an election to be held on the first Monday in June; the persons elepted were to take their offices on the 1st of July. The full bloods met and elected their delegates from the different camps to this convention at Pawhuska. The resolution of the council for such convention applied to all Indians, mixed bloods as well; as full bloods, among the Osages. None of the mixed bloods attended that convention and therefore the full bloods went ahead and selected their candidates from the so-called full-blood ticket. The mixed bloods then met on a subsequent day and selected their ticketi, I was not there at that time, but I am told by the full bloods that Paul Eed Eagle attended the convention of the full bloods. The delegates there did not put him on their ticket. He went then to the convention of the mixed bloods and they put him on their ticket as assistant principal chief. The Chairman. Being defeated as candidate of Tjne party he went to the other party and stood for nomination. Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. The full bloods did not feel well incline! toward Eed Eagle. Now, when the mixed bloods selected the men on their ticket they selected as principal chief a man who lives in Kansas, a white man with a strain of India^ blood, but no member of this committee would ever think he had a drop of Indian blood in his veins. They selected another mixed-blood member of the council who lives in Arkansas City, Kans., and who was a member of the last council. The Chairman. One moment, please. Does this chief still reside in Kansas? Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. His name is Charles Brown. Mr. Kevard, another mixed-blood member, lives at Bartlesville, outside of the Osage country. They also selected a mixed-blood man who served on the previous council, who is an Omaha Indian by blood an^ has an allotment in the Omaha Eeservation in Nebraska, but who was adopted in the Osage Tribe and has an allotment there also. Now, these men do not come in contact or consult with the full bloods. They put two full bloods on their ticket. The records of IHDIAK" APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 239 the department show, by an investigation made by Inspector Mc- Laughlin, that one of such full bloods, who testified here, by the name of Claremore, was one of the men who a number of years ago was paid rnoney to give to some people on the Osage Reservation leases for oil and gas without any competition. The other full blood they put on the ticket is a professional gambler. The full-blood In- dians maintain that these men do not represent the full bloods, or are representative full bloods. The consequence is that the full bloods will have no dealings with the present council. The principal chief never visits the full bloods and never goes out to their camps. Those men on this pres- ent council were selected and nominated and the platform was writ- ten by a man who has been indicted heretofore, and was the instru- ment by which these men were paid money several years ago for voting for these leases. That man has been convicted of murder. There are other matters that I do not desire to go into before this copimittee, but they are matters in which every inspector — Detective Burns, Inspector McLaughlin, and Mr. Linen, and other inspectors — have investigated for years and they are matters of record. Now, the full bloods feel that they are not getting any representa- tion on the council. The records show that the various resolutions that have been presented to the council have been prepared by men in Pawhuska, one of whom is not in good repute before the depart- ment because of certain dealings with Indians. They were brought there, presented to the council by one of the council members, read, and, adopted without one word of discussion, and since I have been at the Osage I have insisted' and the department directed that all the proceedings of the council meeting should be taken down and made a matter of record. Every one of those resolutions that the council considered were prepared by men down town. The full bloods never discussed them at all, and they were brought up there and adopted without a word of discussion. They are simply the creatures of men whose reputa- tion is a matter of record in the department, and they have not the interests of the tribe at heart, except to make money for themselves. I speak only for the full-blood Indians who have asked me to say that for them. 'Senator Cxthtis. Under the existing law has not the Secretary the authority to remove any of them that he sees fit ? Mr. Weight. Yes, sir; the full bloods at the last election protested to the department against the approval of this present council on the grounds, first, that they did not follow the procedure directed by the council, to have a convention on a certain day, but that they T?aited until after that day elapsed, and then went and had their own convention; second, that two of the men that they put on that council are not representative full bloods; third, that the principal chief resides in Kansas and never visits the Osage country except \\'hen called there for a council meeting. About two or three weeks ago the council wanted to get up a peti- tion among the Indians to ask Congress to extend this trust period to the minerals. They called me before the council and stated that they realized that the' full-blood Indians were not in sympathy with the mixed-blood council, and therefore probably would not follow 240 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. any advice of that mixed-blood council, and asked me to circulate a petition among the full bloods myself. They finally concluded, how- ever, that the principal chief and assistant chief should go out to the Indian village with me. We went out there. The present principal chief asked me to make a statement to the Indians. I suggested' to him that he was principal chief and it would be proper for him to first state the purpose of the visit. He told me that he had never attended a full-blood meeting of the Indians, and instead of trying to explain anything to them at all, he did not as chief even introduce me, but merely stated, " Mr. Wright will tell you what we came here for," and sat down. . * Bacon Rind is considered by everybody as the most intelligent and brainiest Osage Indian that there is. He was selected as spokesman for the Indians at the meeting I have just mentioned. There were probably 30 present. -Fred Lookout was there, and a better Indian, in my judgment, does not exist than Fred Lookout. To my mind he is an ideal full-blood Indian. They had Bacon Rind speak for them. He maintained that he had protested against the election of the present council to the department ; that it has been customary for the department to always approve the election of those officers, and that the present council did not represent the sentiment of the full bloods in any way, shape, or manner, and they declined to follow any sug- gestions of the present council as to circulating any petition, but if' they wanted to get up any petition they would do it themselves in their own way and in their own time. Now, the present council has never been approved by the depart- ment. There is no law requiring the approval of the election of the council, but it has been customary heretofore for the Secretary to approve the election. In view of the statements made by the inspect- ing officers — Inspector McLaughlin for one — in connection with the recent election of these men, and how they were influenced and how they were dominated absolutely by men of disrepute, the Secretary informed me that he would not approve them, but he did not deenj it wise at that particular time to remove them. The protest of these full-blood Indians against the council is of record in the department, and a very thorough investigation of the whole situation was made by two inspectors — one inspector of the department — Maj. McLaugh- lin — and one inspector of the Indian Office and their recommenda- tion is on file in the department, that in their judgment this council should be dispensed with. I only feel, Mr. Chairman, that these full-blood Indians of ttie Osage should have some consideration which they feel they are not receiving at the present time from their council. The mixed bloods, when they came to vote, are in the majority. _ The full-blood Indians do not consider the niixed bloods as Indians from their standpoint. They feel that they come from the white people and that they who are the fathers and the original owners of the land certainly ought to have something to say about the conduct of their own affairs. Many of these mixed bloods live in Kansas ;. in Colorado and some live in California. I think there are about 400 individuals whor live outside the Osage. They never come there. We send them their checks and money. Many have had their restrictions removed, and they have sold their land. The only thing many have is their 160- acre homestead that they can not sell. They have no interest except INDIAN APPKOPBIATIOK BILL, 1920. 241 minority interests. They only come there to vote with the mixed bloods who are, as I say, absolutely dominated and controlled by men who are in disrepute, as was found by the inspecting officers who have been there, and it is a matter of record in the department that the full bloods feel, and keenly feel, that their affairs — what little they have .to say, or may have to say through their council — should not be dominated by these men, and they want the privileges of having a majority representation on the council. That is all they ask. ' The Chairman. The full bloods live on the reservation, do they? Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. The Chairman. And all their interests are there? Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. I will not take up the time of the commit- tee any longer. I can simply say that much more might be said. , Mr. Humphreys. Mr. Chairman, I would like just a few moments to reply to the statement of Mr. Wright. The Chairman. We will allow you two minutes. Mr. Humphreys. I do not care to occupy that much time. In the first place, Mr. Wright, in my judgment, is one of the best superintendents in the United States. He refers to certain unscrupu- lous men and grafters in control of the Osage Council as at present comprised. Lest you believe that these unscrupulous men are the same men who were mixed up in the graft charged some years ago, at which Bacon Eind and the council were removed, I will say that he refers to two members of the tribe who will control and who do control this council. I do not care to deal in any personalities, gentlemen, and I do not expect to mention any names, but I want to tell you that one of these men to whom he refers as a member of the Osage Tribe of Indians is without doubt the biggest man in the State of Oklahoma. He is lie biggest lawyer in Oklahoma, and in my judgment one of the best lawyers in the State of Oklahoma. The other man that he re- fers to as a member of the Osage Tribe of Indians and an unscrupu- lous grafter is in my judgment the second best lawyer in the city of Pawhuska, and probably in northwestern Oklahoma, and he is so considered by the bar of our State. Mr. Wright refers considerably to the protests signed by the Osage full bloods and also to the fact that these protests and all resolutions presented to the tribal council are prepared by lawyers in the city of Pawhuska. Granting that to be true, gentlemen, never- theless I state it as a fact that the protest of the full-blood Indians to which Mr. Wright refers was also prepared by an attor- ney in the city of Pawhuska, and in my judgment, so far as my knowledge goes, the signatures to that protest were secured in this lawyer's office. ■ He says that Bacon Eind was removed because other members ot the council received bribes. I do not state it to be a fact, gentlemen, because I do not know— and it happened previously to my being there but I do say, as a matter of common knowledge, that Bacon I Eind himself received $600 for his vote on a certain proposition, and that is one reason he was removed. And I will state fur- ther that the information came to me when I was here m Wash- ington as clerk to the House Committee on Indian Affairs. That 106080—19 16 242 INDIAlSr APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920. was the reason he was removed. As Senator Curtis has remarked, the Secretary of the Interior has ample authority under the existing law to remove any councilmen, and the whole council, if conditions are such as Mr. Wright would have you believe. He has full au- thority to do that under existing law, and to enact any legislation; that will merely, as I said before throw the Indians wider apart, and will destroy the work of the full bloods and mixed bloods who are trying hard as they can to get the two factions together, and if the department will keep its hands off and let the Indians work out their own proposition I assure you, gentlemen, that they will get together. ^ I want to touch upon the next item briefly, providing for an attor- ney for the Osage Indians, while I am on my feet. Mr. Wright has said that the most unscrupulous grafters exist in the city of Pawhuska and in Osage County. He has a personal reason in it, it is true, but, gentlemen, if the Indian Office, with all the authority it has, can not control these grafters and can not protect the Indians, it is only an added factor with the Indians that they should have an attorney to protect them. I want that thought to be impressed upon the minds of you gentlemen when you con- sider the next item, that if conditions are such as the superintendent says, that they should have an attorney to look after their interests. Mr. Wright. Just one word: I do not want to get into a contro- versy, but just to make reference to the statement that that protest of these full bloods was secured by an attorney. Immediately after this election was held the full bloods came to me and wanted to get their protest filed before the department and asked how they could proceed to do it. They first wanted me to do it. I asked them to make it themselves and in their own way and upon their own sug- gestion, without anything coming from me. They then went and employed an attorney to present their matters. So it was not sug- gested by any attorney, but came from the Indians originally to me, that they employ an attorney. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee? , i Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, I do not like to intrude myself so often in this matter, but it seems to me that as to these three or four propositions of legislation they ought not to be on the Indian appropriation bill. There is a fight between these people, and I should think it would be the begt plan to let this matter go into a general bill applying to the Osages, and let them come here and fight it out — to pass it as a matter of general legislation and not to put it on the Indian appropriation bill. It seems to me that is the best way out of it. I have said very many times that I was going to raise a point of order on any legislation on this bill. I think it ought to be done, and yet I realize that there is some legislation that should properly be on the bill — that is, not ought to be, but ought not to be except under certain conditions, when it is almost necessary to put some legislation on the bill. I should like to see conditions arise whereby no legislation could be put on the bill, but should be- in- cluded in different general bills. When it is other legislation, it ought not to be put on the general appropriation bill. If we should adopt a course of settling these questions on the Indian appropriation bill, we would have a repetition of what we have had this last week, and INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 243 as « matter of fact, upon every occasion when we have had the In- dian appropriation bill up for consideration, and we ought not to have it. These questions should be settled outside and not be con- sidered in the last few days of the session in connection with our consideration of the Indian appropriation bill. That is the way I feel about it. I do not intend to make any motion, but I shall vote against putting any legislation on this biU of any kind. Senator McNakt. Is the proposed amendment the one that we had up here a few days ago ? The Chairman. Yes. Senator McNaet. I did not think it was sufficiently complete at that time to protect the interests of the full-blood Indians, which Mr. Wright so excellently discusses here. I think they should have the privilege of selecting their own representation without inter- ference from the others. The Chairman. This amendment that has been suggested was provided by the department, providing in substance for the election of four half bloods and four full bloods as memberg of the council. Senator McNart. I read it the other day. Has it been changed? At that time I pointed out to Mr. Meritt what I thought the weak- ness of his proposed amendment was. I still think so. Mr. Meritt. I haA'e studied the amendment since then. Senator, and I find under the wording of this amendment that we can over- come the objection raised by you. The amendment gays that these elections shall be held under such rules and regulations as the Secre- tary may prescribe, and that will give us complete authority to over- come the objections that you mentioned to me a few days ago. Mr. Chairman, it will be absolutely impossible for us to control the situation on the Osage Reservation unless we get this legislation. Senator Curtis. Can you not remove all of these people now ? Can not the Secretary to-morrow remove any man or all the men, if he wanted to? Mr. Meritt. The Secretary felt that it would be very much better to get this legislation rather than to continue to remove the Osage coun- cils, because as soon as this Osage council was removed the mixed bloods would hold another election, and inasmuch as they are in the majority they would elect another council, and it would simply be a revolving process of removal without any result. While it is true that this is legislation and is subject to a point of order, it is so clearly for the benefit of the full-blood Indians of the Osage Nation that we tkought it might go on the bill this year, in view of the urgency of the matter and in view of the fact that it is the expressed wish of Secre- tary Lane, who has given this matter his personal attention, that this legislation be obtained at this session on the Indian appropriation bill. We would consider it a great favor and it would be very greatly in the interest of the Indians and the protection of the Government. The Chairman. If there is no objection '' Senator Curtis. No ; you can not put it that way. I want a vote. While I want to state that my vote on this question will not indicate my feeling on the subject— I think they should be protected; the full bloods should be protected, that they need protection— nevertheless, I am going to vote^' no " on this proposition, because I do not think we lought to put legislation on this bill. 244 INDIAK APPROPRIATION BILL,, 1920. Senator Kendrick. I move the adoption' of the amendment, Mr. Chairman. Senator La Follette. It appeared to me,, when you made the sug- gestion that the Secretary had it in his power to remove this evil com- plained of by removing the council, that perhaps that was the better solution of it, but it seems that that — to use the street expression — does not get him anywhere. They may immediately elect another council of the same type. Senator Cuetis. The statement does not show that they. elected an- other council, but the evidence of the statement made by Mr. Wright, if I remember it correctly, was that the other council has been removed and the next council was composed two-thirds of full bloods. I think this. Senator, that if the Secretary would announce his ability and say, " Gentlemen, if you do not come up to this I will remove your council,'^ that they would act accordingly down there. You can not handle these people properly by temporizing for six or seven months and not let them know that you mean what you say. If you would act imme- diately and remove that council at once, then they would know that the Secretary meant business. Mr. Weight. The difficulty of the present law is that the Secretary can not provide that the mixed bloods shall not have a majority vote. They are in the majority if they elect their own people. The full bloods do not get representation. When the council was removed sev- eral years ago the mixed blood took no interest — that is, the mixed bloods themselves — in the succeeding election, and therefore the full bloods were elected. But since that time the mixed bloods have got- ten together again and, having a majority vote, they elected their members. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, I suggest a roll call. The Chairman. Gentlemen, you have heard the motion, that the proposed amendment be adopted. [Putting the question.] The ayes appear to have it. Senator McNaet. A division. (The question being taken by yeas and nays, resulted as follows: Yeas, Senators Kendrick, Nugent, La Follette, and Walsh — 4; nays, Senators Curtis, Fernald, and McNary— 3. So the amendment was agreed to.) Mr. Mbeitt. Mr. Chairman, I will not ask for the item for the ex- tension of the trust period unless the committee wishes this item to go on at this time, because it is subject to a point of order, and Sena- tor Gore has indicated his opposition to it. We were asking that the trust period on the oil lands in the Osage Nation be extended. We would be glad to have it go into the bill and let the point of order be made on the floor or withdraw it at this time, whatever the pleas^ ure of the committee may be. Senator La Follette. I wish you would state briefly the object of the legislation. Mr. Meeitt. The legislation is as follows : All that part of the act approved June 28, 1906, entitled "An act for the division of the lands and funds of the Osage Indians in Oklahoina Territory, and for other purposes " (34 Stat. L., p. 539), which reserves to the Osage Tribe the oil, gas, coal, or other minerals covered by the lands for the selection and division of which provision is made in that act, is hereby amended so that the oil, gas, coal, or other minerals covered by said lands are reserved to the Osage INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 245 .Tribe for the period ending December 31, 1959: Provided, That the minerals upon the allotted lands shall become the property of the individual owner of the surface of said lands at the expiration of said period unless otherwise provided for by act of Congress. Mr. Meritt; It was pointed out in the hearings the other day that the trust period would expire in 1931 and all the Osage Indians, re- gardless of whether they are mixed bloods or full bloods, want this legislation extended for a period until 1959, a period of almost 30 additional years, so that the oil and other minerals underlying this land may be recovered for the benefit of the Osage Indians. We have more than a million acres of land in the Osage Nation and less than one-half of that land has been leased for oil and gas-mining purposes. It will be impossible to recover all the oil and minerals for the benefit of the Indians before the expiration of the trust period. Under the Osage act of 1906 it is clearly within the authority of Congress to extend this trust period, and inasmuch as this is the property of the Indians, and the white purchasers of the surface have acquired that land subject to this right of Congress to extend the trust period on these minerals, we believe that this legislation should be enacted to protect the property rights of all the Osage Indians. Senator Kendrick. When does this trust expire? What is it that makes it necessary to act upon it at this session ? Mr. Meritt. The trust expires in 1931, but we have over 500,000 acres of additional land to lease and we are leasing the land as quickly as possible, but the oil operators hesitate to pay an adequate bonus on that property because of the short time within which to recover the oil. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, I was not impressed at all by the argument which was made against this application to extend this trust period. I can not see how any purchaser of Indian lands is entitled to any conisedration at all. He bought with the plain pro- visions of the act before him, which vests in Congress the power and authority to make further provision concerning the mineral rights at the expiration of the trust period. Senator Curtis. I understand that that was noted in the deed. Senator Walsh. Well, whether it was or not it was read into the deed. Senator La Follette. That is for the still further extension ? Senator Walsh. Congress reserved the absolute power to make Buch disposition as it saw fit to make at the expiration of the trust period. And accordingly anybody who bought any Indian land bought it with the knowledge that Congress could cease the trust then or extend it, as it thought wise. But, Mr. Chairman, I think that there is no reason for making the extension to a period greater than 25 years more. Sometime or other these lands ought, in my judg- ment, to be cleared of the cloud, and 50 years ought to furnish an adequate period, as it seems to me. I do not see why you make that an odd number of years, Mr. Meritt. Senator La Follette. The proposed extension is 28 years ? Mr. Meritt. About 28 years; we wanted to bring it up to 1960, but it will be entirely agreeable to the department to extend the period for 25 years. Senator Walsh. It was originally 25 years, and my suggestion is to make it 25 years more. 246 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Meeitt. That will take it to 1956. We would be glad to ac- cept that suggestion. We would also like to have that item go on this Indian bill. Senator Walsh. I move the adoption of the amendment. Senator Curtis. I would like to make the same statement as here- tofore. My vote on this is no indication of how I feel on the subject. (The amendment was agreed to.) EDUCATION OF INDIAN CHILDREN AT CHILOCCO, OKLA. Mr. Meeitt. The next item we are asking, Mr. Chairman, is ill Oklahoma, on page 39, under line 14. For support and education of five hundred and fifty Indian pupils at tlie Indian school at Chilocco, Oklahoma, including pay of superintendent, $94,600; for general repairs and Improvements, $7,000; in all, $101,600: Provided, That $20,000 heretofore appropriated for roads and bridge on the Chilocco Indian Reservation in Oklahoma, or any unexpended balance thereof, is hereby reap- propriated and made available for the construction or completion of such roads and bridge. Mr. Meeitt. After the numerals, " $7,000 " we would like to have for improvement of the water and engineering systems, $20,000. Since our estimates were made up, and since this bill passed the House, we have information that the water system at that school is about to break down. It is a very large school and we will need this appropriation to preserve the water supply of that school. It is one of our very largest and very best Indian schools in the Indiaa Service, and we would like very much to get this item on the bill for improvement of the water and engineering systems, $20,000. Senator La Follette. You say to come in after the $7,000? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator McNaet. To be added to the $7,000? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator McNaey. Exclusive of the $7,000. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator McNaey. $20,000 more, a new item entirely. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. (Without objection the item was agreed to.) Mr. Meeitt. The committee asked me a few days ago to prepare a proviso Mr. Humphreys. Before you get off of the Osage matters. Sena- tor Gore requested me to inquire concerning the selection of at- torneys. Senator Curtis. I thought we agreed on that, that the two fac- tions could get together and we would approve the attorney. Mr. Humphreys. There was no such agreement. The Chairman. That is not the Chair's recollection. The matter was discussed but I do not think there was any agreement. Mr. Meeitt. The committee asked me to prepare a proviso on the probate-attorney item, making an appropriation of $85,000, on page 43, between line 13 and 19, and have prepared the following : Provided, That when any probate attorney shall render service of a legal nature in connection with any estate of a restricted allottee ot his heirs, wherein such estate is of the value of $1,000 or more, the court having Juris- diction thereof shall allow froih the estate a reasonable fee which in his (Ji?- INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 247 amount so allowed shall be accounted for and paid into the Treasury of the United States, and report shall be made annually to Congress by the Secre- tary of the Interior, on or before the first Monday of December, of all moneys collected and deposited, as herein provided. Senator Ctjetis. The debate, I think, disclosed that Senator Walsh wanted $500 and you suggested a thousand, did you not ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Does that word " fee '^ express what you want there? Is that better than allowance or charge? What do you think about that, Senator Walsh? Senator Walsh. I thought there was no objection to the language, but perhaps that would be more appropriate. Mr. Meeitt. Let me read the item again. I think it is better to make that specific and make it read : That when any probate attorney shall render service of a legal nature In connection with any estate of a restricted allottee or his heirs, wherein such estate is of the value of $1,000 or more, the court having jurisdiction thereof shall allow from the estate a fee. The Chaieman. Why not use the word reasonable; make it read "reasonable fee"? Senator Walsh. And allow from the estate a reasonable fee. Mr. Meeitt (reading) : Shall allow from the estate a reasonable fee. which in his discretion is suffi- cient to cover the expense of the service so rendered. Senator La Follette. Would it not be better to use the word "value" instead of "expense," so that it would read, "value of the service " instead of " expense of the service " ? Mr. MJEEiTT. I will make it read " to cover the value of the service so rendered." Senator Walsh. I think that will answer all right. I am not in- sisting at all, but I thought that $500 should be the limit, but I Senator Cuktis. Make it a thousand dollars. Mr. Meeitt. We would like very much that that be made $1,000. Senator Walsh. Very well, rou understand, Senator La Fol- lette, that some of these Indians are very wealthy, and the Govern- ment is providing an attorney whose official business it is to look after the administration of his estate and see that it goes to the proper heirs. Now the point was made that in case of an estate o± very great value that there was no reason why the Government should bear all of that expense, and in the case of estates of a value greater than $500 or $1,000, there should be an amount allowed out of the estate to reimburse the Government for the contribution which it had made toward the settlement and adjustment of the estate, and the question now is as to whether it should be $500 or Senator La Follette. Of the amount allowed out of the estate? Senator Walsh. No; the amount of the estate; that is, that the rule should not be applicable to estates of inconsequential amount; there the Government might very properly contribute the services. It is a question as to what amount the estate should be worth m order to make it fall within the provisions requiring the estate to reimburse ^''^tSTchakman. The Government pays the salaries of attorneys out of the general appropriation, and the idea was where the estate ex- 248 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILX,, 1920. ceeded a certain amount or a certain percentage the amount of monej should be taken out of the estate itself to recoup the Governmen for the salary paid to the attorney. (Without objection, the amendment was agreed to.) Senator Walsh. That is agreed to at $1,000. The Chairman. Yes ; at $1,000. Mr. Meritt. That carries the whole item, as I understand it, th( appropriation of $85,000 together with the amendment. The Chairman. Yes. (The next amendment was read as follows:) That the Osage Tribe of Indians in Oklahoma, through its tribal council ii hereby authorized to employ, annually, a tribal attorney for said tribe, at i salary of not exceeding $7,500 per annum, a stenographer, and expenses, sai( contract of employment to be in full force and effect, as per the terms thereof when executed by the Osage tribal council and said attorney, said-salary an( expenses to be paid quarterly and after said account has been audited an( allowed by the Osage tribal council. This authority shall extend to said trib( for 10 years, unless otherwise provided by Congress. There is hereby appropri ated annually from Osage tribal royalties received from oil, gas, or othei mineral rights or other tribal funds $10,000, or so much thereof as shall b( necessary, to pay for said services and expenses : Provided, That said contrac shall be subject to cancellation by either party thereto upon 60 days' writtei notice. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, it was pointed out at the hearing i few days ago Senator Walsh. Pardon me, Mr. Meritt, I do not understand thai last statement there. That is the contract of employment ? The Chairman (reading) : Provided, That said contracts shall be subject to cancellation by either part; thereto upon 60 days' written notice. Senator Walsh. What is the contract? The Chairman (reading) : That the Osage Tribe of Indians in Oklahoma, through its tribal council, ii hereby authorized to employ, annually, a tribal attorney for said tribe, at i salary of not exceeding $7,5Ci0 per annum, a stenographer, and expenses, sai( contract of employment to be In full force and effect, as per the terms thereof. Senator Walsh. That is a ridiculous proposition, that a client cai not get rid of his attorney for 60 days. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, the department is opposed to thi item going on the Indian bill for this reason: It would enable tb present mixed-blood council, who are absolutely opposed by nearl; all the full-blood Indians, to employ an attorney at an expense o $10,000 a year to the Osage Indians to represent these mixed-bloo< Indians as against the interests of the -full-blood Indians, and with out the approval of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs or the Secre tary of the Interior, as required by existing law. I stated to th committee, a few days ago, that no objection would be made by th Indian Office or by the department to the employment of a reputabl attorney, agreed on by both factions, and that contract submitted t the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Ie terior in accordance with existing law. The Chairman. Suppose they couldn't agree, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. Then, if they couldn't agree — if a reasonable numbe of the mixed bloods and the full bloods would agree on a reputabl attorney and have that contract submitted to the. commissioner an INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 249 the Secretary, as required by law, I believe it would be entirely possi- ble lor the Osage Indians to have an attorney, although we have stated that there were no complicated legal questions requiring an Osage attorney, and they have large funds to their credit and are amply able to pay for an attorney, and if it is the wish of all of the Indians to have a tribal attorney, there is no objection which will be interposed by the Indian Bureau ; but we are opposed to this legislation, because it is very objectionable, indeed. r Mr. Humphrey. I simply want to call your attention to the amend- ment you have just read. It takes out of the hands of the mixed- blood Indians the authority to control the tribal council and places it in the hands of the full bloods. That being true, the first objec- tion of Mr. Meritt, namely, that the mixed-blood Indians would con- trol the employment of this attorney, has no connection whatever, because you have just amended the law. Senator La Follette. Both of these propositions being legislation upon the Indian appropriation bill. Senator Gore, being in favor of one and opposed to the other, he would probably put the one which would serve as a protection to the Indians out of order and leave the other in there. Mr. Humphrey. That is true. The other condition, gentlemen, that there are no complicated questions, I want to ask you if you can conceive of the estate which has at the present time about 265,000 acres out of a total of a million acres, and that estate were bringing into the 2,200 Indians more than $4,000 per capita income, not need- ing some attorney ? You have in this bill increased the salary of an attorney for the Pueblo Indians to $5,000. Gentlemen, we do not want you to be inconsistent; we want you also to allow the Osage Tribe of Indians who have such a vast estate, a tribal attorney. The reason they want it themselves of their own selection is in order that they may present to this committee and to the department their own views on matters affecting their reservation. If you proceed and let the Secretary approve the attorney, the attorney whom he ap- proves is necessarily going to represent the views of the department rather than the views of the Indians, and the Indians want to present to this committee and to the department their own views. Senator McNaey. Mr. Humphrey, what objection have you to the plan advised by the commissioner and suggested by the full bloods, that both sides should agree on some attorney Mr. Humphrey. The impracticability of it. Senator McNary. Let me finish. Then the provision of the con- tract to be submitted to the Secretary of the Interior and the Indian iCommissioner for approval? Mr. Humphrey. The impracticability of the Osage Indians, 2,200 men, agreeing upon one person. Senator McNary. But it is not the 2,200. Senator Curtis. They did not have any trouble in the past in ageeing. Mr. Humphrey. No; but the Secretary then approves the man. I do not know, Senator, but I imagine that attorney was selected by the tribe, by the council, and presented. I do not know that to be the fact, but I presume it is. Senator Curtis. Would it be easy for the council to agree upon an attorney? 250 INDIAN APPBOPBIATIOlT BILL, 1920. Mr. HuMPHEET. I thiBk so. Senator Cuetis. And if he was a capable man he would be accept- able to the Indians ? Mr. HuMPHEET. That is not Mr. Meritt's proposition. Mr. Meritt says now the individual Indian, I think, is going to speak through the agency of the council. Mr. Meeitt. Any selection that will represent the wishes of both factions in the Osage country. Mr. HuMPHRET. Senator, the Secretary of the Interior for six years has had authority to appoint an attorney for the Osage In- dians. He has had full authority for six years, and he has absoluteljl refused the yearly, and three or four times a year, petitions to ap- point an attorney for them, and at this time the Indians feel that they should have some man who would represent their views, after the commissioner and secretary have positively refused time and again to appoint an attorney for them. Senator McNaet. This is a little different situation. Mr. Meritt, speaking for the commissioner, says that he will appoint anyone who is agreeable to both sides. Mr. Htjmpheet. And that attorney, relying upon his appointment from the Secretary of the Interior and upon his reappointment from the Secretary of the Interior, would necessarily go to the Secretary of the Interior's office and there ascertain the opinion of the bureau on the matter? Senator McNaet. I would not think that a reputable lawyer would do that. Mr. Htjmphbey. That has been the case with other tribal attorneys for the Indians. Senator McNaex. You had better send out to Oregon and get some good ones. Mr. HtiMPHEEY. The Indians feel that they should have the right, and that you gentlemen should permit them to spend their own money for an attorney. Senator Walsh. I did not understand that Senator Gore, in his objection to the committee, voiced an opposition to the amendment in relation to the manner of selecting the Osage Indian counsel; he spoke on the extension of the trust period. Senator La Follette. He was opposed to the extension of thfe trust period. Senator Walsh. Yes. Senator La Follette. He is in favor of this amendment. Senator Walsh. No; but the gentleman who has just addressed us suggested that because of the amendment we have just adopted in relation to the manner of selecting the Osage counsel, this subject of selection of an attorney has been in a way safeguarded. You suggested that a point of order might be made. Senator Gore offered no objection to that. That is, he did not talk on it at all. I do not know what his views are. Whatever the point of order he made it would still remain to anyone else to make the point of order against this. I was going to say, however, Mr. Meritt, that assuming that that goes through, the present council would employ an attorney and he would hold simply under the will of the council and when they went out and another council came in, the other INDIAN APPEOPEIATIOH' BILL, 1920. 251 council would select another attorney if" it saw fit to do so. I do not believe, Mr. Meritt, that the secretary ought to control the choice of this attorney. These people have exhibited here a good deal of business sense; they have enormous interests there and they will be quick to detect, someone would at least, whether the attorney was honestly repre- senting them or not. I can not quite see why the secx-etary or the Indian Office should say "No, you can not have that attorney," when they put a veto on it, why, as a matter of course, the attorney who is eventually chosen is under more or less constraint to adopt the view that the Indian Office takes. Very often the views are diverse. Now, we have the same matter in connection with the desire of the Crows to institute suits in the Court of Claims to recover what- ever is due there. I do not see why the Crows should not be per- mitted to select any lawyer they want to prosecute their claims, or why the department should be permitted to say ' You can not have that attorney.' If the attorney is in good standing before the Court of Claims, I do not see why he shomd not be permitted to act for them. Senator McNaet. Pardon this interjection. Senator. The situa- tion is not exactly similar between the Crow Indians and the Osage Indians. The Crow Indians have the right, I think, to select their counsel, because there is a case already made up and presented, the facts are in existence, and the Court of Claims passes upon the rea- sonableness of the fee to be charged, and that is one protection the Indian would have; but here, without any case, matters lying in the future, are now fomenting; that is, that he has to advise upon. In this instance it is not the question of a fee, because that is prescribed by the amendment, but whether he plays precisely honest with the full bloods and mixed bloods and shows no partiality, is the question. So, for that reason, I distinguish between the Crow situation and the Osage situation. Your other proposition, as Mr. Meritt does not ■want the right to veto any lawyer, he says you could get together and make up your minds, and we will appoint whomsoever you select. Therefore, the man selected would in no way be bound by the views and pleasures of the commissioner nor of the Secretary of the In- terior. Mr. Meritt. In addition to that statement. Senator, I would like to point out that the Choctaw and the Chickasaw Nations in Okla- homa, each has an attorney; those attorneys are employed in ac- cordance with existing law which requires the approval of their contract by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Seretary of the Interior, and those attorneys represent fully the views of those Indians, and no Choctaw or Chickasaw Indians have ever been heard to complain that^ their tribal attorneys did not represent their views and protect their' interests. On the other hand, it is absolutely necessary for the department to control these attorney contracts; otherwise there would be the greatest amount of difficulty in handling these tribal affairs. Senator Walsh. Mr. Meritt, let me call your attention to the La Bresh case on the Black Feet Eeservation. The department there took the position that no allotment of lands gave the Indian any title whatever until the allotment was approved by the Secretary of 252 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILX., 1920. the Interior; that is, by the' Indian Office. After the allotment had been made to La Bresh'and Cook, the department proceeded to cancel and annul what was done, and set aside the land as a site for a reservation reservoir, and every appeal that they made to the com- missioner resulted only in the conclusion that the Secretary had that power. They then employed me and I brought suit in the district court for the. district of Montana and established the contention that the Secretary had no power in the premises whatever; that they, having selected their land and the allotment having been made to them, they became the owners of that land. There was a case in which the rights of the Indians ran counter to the views taken bf the department. Now, if they could not employ an attorney, except one who is approved by the Secretary of the Interior, would not that attorney who had to get the approval of the Secretary of the Interior be in a rather absurd position to be contending against the views taken by the Secretary and the department to whom he owed his appointment ? The Chairman. So far as the Chair is concerned, the Chair will say he is in entire accord with the views expressed by Senator Walsh. Whatever difference of opinion there may be between the full bloods and the mixed bloods in the Osage Tribe, it was demonstrated before this committee the other day that they were a unit on this proposi- tion. As they have vast interests there, it is the Chair's judgment these Indians are entitled to select their attorneys to be paid out of their own funds, as they desire, absolutely unfettered and un- trammeled by anybody. Mr. Meeitt. It has always been the contention of the department that an allotment does not become effective until the allotment schedule has been approved by the department and the individual Indian was going to be given a new selection elsewhere. It is not denied that an individual Indian may employ an attorney without the approval of the Secretary of the Interior or the Commissioner of Indian Affairs; that is the right of every Indian, and we do not deny that right or attempt to interfere with it, but when it comes to a tribal matter over which the Secretary of the Interior and the Com- missioner of Indian Affairs have jurisdiction by law, it is found necessary by long experience in Indian matters that these contracts shall be approved by these officials. In that connection, I want to state to the committee that a few years ago there were some startling disclosures regarding attorney contracts in connection with Indian affairs, and those attorneys, as Senator Curtis will recall, got legis- lation through Congress, and as a result they got attorney fees amounting to $750,000 in one case. That fee was not approved by the Secretary of the Interior or the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. Senator Walsh. Nobody objects at all to the department having supervision over the fee that is to be charged. I do not understand that anybody objects to that. I think that is a very wise provision. Mr. Meeitt. I might say further, gentlemen of the committee, that there are certain attorneys here in Washington who have vio- lated the present law and violated the present regulation of the department, and have gone out without the approval of the dei)art-" ment and have gotten these various contracts with Indian tribes, and if Congress establishes a precedent in this case it will enable INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 253 those attorneys who have those contracts to recover millions of dol- lars m fees, and millions of dollars in judgments against the United States. I think this is such an important matter that it should be brought to the attention of this committee at this time. The Chairman. This could not be retroactive legislation. Mr. Meritt. Not at all, but these contracts are outstanding and they will come before the conmiittees of Congress and ask that these contracts be allowed to stand if this legislation goes through. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee? Senator Walsh. There is no reason that I can see .why this should go on the appropriation bill. There is nothing desperate, there is nothing pending, apparently, that requires immediate action. This, it seems to me, might very properly be made the subject of separate legislation. Mr. Meritt. This changes the existing law and is legislation on the appropriation bill and is subject to a point of order, and in view of its opposition by the department, and also a large number of the full-blood Osage Indians, we would like to have it kept off the Indian bill. The full-blood Indians iwant an attorney, but they do not want the attorney employed in this way. They are opposed to this method of employment of an attorney. And if this legislation is kept off the Indian bill and the Osage Indians will get together within the next six months, they will have an attorney without legislation by Con- gress, and we ask that this matter be left off the Indian bill so that it can be adjusted without legislation and without the establishment of this precedent that will enable these attorneys who have these con- tracts with Indians to come before the committees of Congress and try to get their contracts approved. Senator Kjendrick. Will the same thing apply in the case of the Crows having the right to select an attorney to push their claims ? Mr. Meritt. If the legislation is enacted giving the Court of Claims jurisdiction to determine their claims, we will be very glad, indeed, to allow the Crow Indians to select their attorneys, provided the contract is approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior, so that we can see that not only the interests of the Crow Indians, but the interests of the Government are protected, so there iwill be no further scandals in connection with the Indian attorney contracts. We have, had enough of these scandals and we are trying to do everything we can to avoid a repetition of them. Senator Fern aid. Here are 2,200 people; the richest, almost, on earth ; carrying on a business almost equal to the United States Steel Corporation, and larger almost than any other corporation of a private character in the world. Why they should not be allowed to pay- the little sum of $10,000 to employ an attorney that they may select themselves without regard to any interference from any de- partment I can not quite understand. It seems to me they ought to be allowed to do so, and I take precisely the same stand that Senator Walsh has presented. I am not an attorney, and as a rule I try to keep just as far away from them as possible. In my business, I sup^ pose which I have been carrying on of nearly a million dollars a year' I have not paid $10 in 30 years for attorneys' fees until the revenue bill came up a year ago, and noiw I have to employ one all 254 INDIAN APPROPEIATIOSr BILL, 1920. the time. It does seem to me that the interests out there are suffici- ently large that these people ought to be allowed to select an attorney to represent them. , • , 1i • Mr. Weight. I will try, if I can, to present some tacts to this com- mittee. I believe they want them. , • , Now, what they seek to do there, as I understand it^these mixed bloods who are dominated at the present time by unscrupulous white men, as shown by the records of the department— they desire to have an attorney selected that they shall select .without even the approval of the department, subject to their removal and subject to their dis- charge, without the full bloods being consulted at all. Senator Fernald. Will you let me just suggest that that sami thing is true of everybody in this country? Unfortunately, now, I am obliged to submit to any selection that my friends may make on the other side, in the Democratic party. Senator Kendeick. But their selections are always wise. Senator Feenald. But that same political situation occurs with white people and with everybody living. I can not see that that enters into this, Mr. Wright. Mr. Weight. Would you approve of a man who is unscrupulous in every way, shape, or manner, that he be permitted to dictate who the attorney should be without seeing that he is a reputable man or not? Senator Feenald. I do not think that exists, Mr. Wright. I do not believe that these Indians would select somebody that was disrepu- table to represent them ; these men have been before us and they are an intelligent people and many of them are good business men. The Osage Indians are particularly good business men, and I can not con- ceive of their doing such a thing as that. Mr. Weight. I am speaking of hoW the council is controlled at the present time. Senator Feenald. The council is now going to be advised of them, however. Mr. Weight. If they approve that and provide that their attorney shall be selected by their council, and that becomes a law, I do not think anybody would object to it, but not as the council is at present constituted. That is a matter of record in the Department, in the Five Civilized Tribes, where they have 100,000 Indians. I have been there for several years. Senator Walsh. I move that this matter be indefinitely postponed. (The motion was agreed to.) Civilization and Education or Sioxrx Indians of the Rosebtjd Agency, S. Dak. Mr. Meeitt. The next item is on page 49, at the bottom of the page. We would like to have incorporated the following item: The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized, In his discretion, to with- draw from the Treasury of the United States the sum of $140,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the tribal funds of the Rosebud Sioux Indians accruing under the act of May 30, 1910 (36 Stat. L., p. 448), and to use the same for the purpose of making a per capita payment of $25 to the Indians en- titled thereto, under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe, and he is further authorized to withdraw from the Treasury the additional sum of $25,00()i of said funds for the purchase of cattle for the Rosebud Indians on the reim- bursable plan, also under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe. INDIAN APPBOPBIATIQN BILL, 1820, 255 There is a delegation of Rosebud Indians now in the city. They have these funds in the Treasury of the United States which can not he paid out without authority of Congress, and inasmuch as the money is to be paid direct to the Indians in per capita payments of $25 we would like to have this item go on the bill. Senator Walsh. I thought there was a general act authorizing these disbursements. Mr. Mehitt. There was a general act carried in the last bill, but these moneys are controlled by a special act. We can not pay them Qut without Congressional authority. Senator Curtis. They have asked for it, have they? Mr. Meritt. They have asked for it and we are willing that they ahould have it. Senator Curtis. How much money have they in the Treasury? Mr. Meritt. $184,000. Senator Curtis. You want to withdraw how much ? Mr. Meritt. $165,000. (Without objection the amendment was agreed to.) Payment to Heads of Families of the Nisquallt Reservation in Washington. Mr. Meritt. The next item is on page 54, after line 10, the House omitted this item from the bill, notwithstanding it was included in our estimates. The estimate reads as follows: For payment of 25 heads of families of the Nisqually Reservation in Wash- ington, or expenditure for their benefit, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, as compensation for the difference between the appraised value and the compromise price paid by the War Department for approximately 3,200 acres of allotted land taken for military purposes; for cost of fencing cemetery plots on the lands surrendered, and for reimbursement of the Indians for expenses incurred in removing themselves with their families and belongings from said lands, $20,670, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be imme- diately available. The justification for this item appears on page 331 of the House hearings. These Indians were required to remove from their homes and turn over their property to the War Department for military purposes during the last year. Senator Curtis. Were they not paid for it ? Mr. Meritt. The Indian Bureau appraised that property and the War Department also made an appraisement, and this is the differ- ence between the value of the property as appraised by the Indian Bureau and the value of the property as appraised by the War De- partment. Senator Walsh. As assessed by the War Department ? Mr. Meritt. As assessed by the War Department and for which they have agreed to pay. Those Indians will find it diificult to find other homes equal to what they had, and which they had to give up for war purposes, and it is a very just claim. Senator McNart. Did the House refuse to incorporate the item? Mr. Meritt. They simply omitted to incorporate it without giving any reasons therefor. Senator Walsh. As I understand the situation it is practically this: The War Department took this property and appraised the 256 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL, 1920. value of it and paid or obligated themselves to pay the amount. The Indian Office, however, tafies the view that the estimate made by the War Department is inadequate, and its estimate of the value of the property, or the damage done to the Indians, is $30,000 more than the War Department allowed. Mr. Meeitt. . $20,670. Senator Walsh. $20,000? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. And the amount allowed' was how much ? Mr. Meeitt. The compromise offered by the War Department was $75,840. Senator Walsh. And you propose to give them $20,000 more? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; making the total $93,760, which is the actual value of the property. Senator Walsh. You say the " actual value." How did you deter- mine the actual value, and what better opportunity did you have to judge of the value of the property than the War Department? Mr. Meeitt. Because we believe that the Indian Bureau is better capable of judging what property is worth to the Indians than an Army officer, because we take into consideration the fact that the Indian has been living in that community for years; that he is familiar with that immediate locality and the methods of farming on that land, and it will be difficult to relocate those Indians on other lands with the money. Senator Walsh. The matter put up to us now simply amounts to this : We are expected to back the judgment of the Indian Depart- ment rather than the War Departhient. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. We have no information whatever on which we could form any judgment as to which is the more accurate estimate. Mr. Meeitt. We have had this very thoroughly investigated by a reponsible party. Senator Walsh. I suppose the War Department would say that they had had the thing thoroughly investigated. Senator Kendeick. Has the matter been considered in connection with the representatives of the War Department at all, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. We accepted this compromise offer with the distinct understanding that we would come before Congress and ask for this difference in the money allowed by the War Department and the estimate placed on the property by the Indian Bureau. Senator Kendeick. Did you do that on the initiation of this ar- rangement? Was that the understanding when the arrangement was made? > Mr. Meeitt. That was the understanding at the time when we agreed to the compromise offered by the War Department. We real- ized it was a war emergency and prompt action was needed, and we consented to the arrangement with the understanding that we would come before Congress and ask them for this difference. Senator Walsh. Mr. Meritt, if we believe half of what we hear, the War Department has been exceedingly liberal in its estimates of "alue of property taken for war purposes. Senator McNaey. Is there any immediate hurry for this? INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920. 257 Senator Kendrick. It might happen, Senator '\>^alsh, the 'very time when they should be liberal they take the opportunity to recoup some of their previous extravagances. Mr. Meeitt. This is a small appropriation. Senator McNary. What was this damage ? Mr. Meritt. The entire property was taken over by the War De- partment and the Indians weie required to move eleswhere. Senator McNaky. When ? Mr. Meeitt. During the last j-ear. ' The Chairman. Has the property been returned to them, or will ; be? Mr. Meritt. It will not be returned to them. Senator McNaey. It is very hard to vote intelligently when theic 3 confusion in the two departments of the Government regard uig lie loss to some Indians. I do not feel prepared to voice the \ iews i the department in face of opposition, and a very different \iew rom the War Department. Mr. Meeitt. There will be no opposition by the War Department this appropriation. Senator McNary. I did not make myself clear. They have one stimate and you have another; we have not anything except the itateraent from the two departments of their own figures. Is there my hurry about this matter ? Mr. Meritt. We are anxious to get these Indians located on other lands. Senator McXaey. The AVar Department can assess the damage and lext year can come in, and if they find upon investigation that the>- [leed more money, we will appropriate it. Mr. Meeitt. It is only a small appropriation. Senators, and the Indians are not at all satisfied with the amount that they have re- ceived, and inasmuch as we had an understanding with the War Department at the time this money was accepted that we would ap- peal to Congress for the difference in value, we would like very much to get this item on the Indian bill. Senator Kendrick. Under what conditions v>'as the War Depart- ment's estimate made, if you have an idea as to how thoroughly they investigated it? Mr. Meeitt. It was done so quickly I imagine the estimate was not made very thoroughly. The Chaieman. What is the pleasure of the committee? ' Senator Walsh. If I were compelled to vote on this now, I would hate to do the Indians any injustice, but I should be obliged to vote no. Mr. Meritt, is there any means by which the matter could be tried out? In the case to which I re"f erred a while ago, you ap- pointed a kind of commission to go out and take testimony concern- ing the value of the property. Mr. Meritt. Since the property was taken we have sent a special supervisor there to make a thorough investigation, and these figures are based upon this careful investigation by the supervisor, and I might say that the Board of Indian Commissioners looked into this matter. , , .^. Senator Cxtetis. Do they recommend it? * Mr. Meritt. They are in favor of this appropriation. 106080— -19 17 258 INDIAlsr APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Curtis. Do you know which one of the commissioners went out? Mr. Meritt. I think Dr. Elliot was the commissioner who visited there. Father Ketcham also sent a wire in regard to the matter Avhile he was in the State of Washington. The representative of the Indian Eights Association is here and he can testify that the Indians are very much dissatisfied with the amount allowed by the War De- partment. Mr. Beosius. I might say, very briefly, this land was used as range ground, and I went there and saw where the Indians used to live and the houses were perforated with shot. The Indians were oblige^ to leave the ground. Senator McNart. Is that in the vicinity of Camp Lewis, American Lake? Mr. Brositis. Yes. Senator Curtis. Let us put it in, we can fight it out in the con- ference. I move that it be put in. (The item was agreed to.) Equalization of Allotments, Education of Indian Children, per CAPITA, and other PAYMENTS TO INDIANS, AND EXPENDITURES FOR THE Five Civilized Tribes. Mr. Meritt. The next item is on page 56, section 25. This is the item which appropriates $2,325,000 of tribal funds for use in adminis- trative purposes. Two years ago Congress enacted legislation which prohibited us from using these tribal funds except by specific au- thority of Congress, and we are submitting this estimate in accord- ance with that legislation. Senator Curtis. The same amount has been used in the past? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; practically the same. Senator Curtis. I asked that that be passed over, but I have not had time to look into the question at all. Mr. Meritt. You will notice that we have reduced our estimate on this item $175,000 from the amount allowed last j'ear. Senator Curtis. I have no further questions to ask on it. The Chairman. Mr. Meritt, was not the Wisconsin item passed? Mr. Meritt. There was one item we wanted passed. May we have that last item adopted, Mr. Chairman? Senator Curtis. I have no objection to it. (The item was agreed to.) Allotments of Ijand to Indians or the Menominee Reservation, Wis. Mr. Meritt. The next item we would like to have incorporated' in the bill, on page 55, at the end of line 15, reads as follows: i That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to make allotments of land under the aot of Februarx- eighth, eighteen hundred and eighty-seven (Twenty -fourth Statutes at Large ijage three hundred and eighty-eigiit), as amended, and under such rules and regulations as he may jirescribe, to Indians of the Menominee Reservation in Wisronsin living Ini the date of this act, or wlio may be born prior to rhe completion of the allotment work' hereunder, and otherwise entitled to rights on the reservation : Provided, That allotments may be made of lands containing merchantable timber, and trust INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 259 patents shall be issued for sucb allotments containing a clause roserxing to tlie United States the right to cut and market the merchantable timbei- thereon in the manner now provided by law for the sale of timber on such reservation : Provided further, That when the merchantable timber has been cut from the land so allotted, the title to any timber remaining on said allotments shall thereupon pass to the respective allottees: Provided further. That any lands valuable for power and reservoir purposes shall not be subject to allotment : And provided further. That the Secretary of the Interior may reserve such lands as he may deem necessary for agency, school, and religious purposes, to remain reserved until no longer needed for these purposes : And provided further, That the Secretary of the Interior is authorized and directed to set aside and reserve for town-site purposes such lands as may be needed for the future public interests ; to cause necessary surveys thereof to be made, and to dispose of the lands therein at such time and under such rules and regula- tions as he may deem proper : Provided, That any lands disposed of hereunder shall be subject to all the laws of the United States prohibiting the intro- duction of intoxicants into the Indian covmtry until otherwise provided by Congress. Senator Ctjrtis. Haven't you authority under existing law to allot under the act of 1887 to these people \ Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Ctjetis. Why? Mr. Meeitt. Because that is special Menominee legislation which reserves the timber for the benefit of the tribe. Senator Ctjetis. You could allot all but the timber? Mr. Meeitt. But there is not sufficient land outside of the timber area to make allotments. Senator Curtis. This timber you sell. It doesn't say so in the amendment, but you sell for the benefit of the tribe ? Mr. Meeitt. We manufacture the timber at the Menominee Res- ervation mill for the benefit of the tribe. Senator Ctjetis. You do not state that in the amendment and that is why I asked the question. I did not catch it. Mr. Meeitt. It is not necessary to state that, because we have legis- lation covering that feature on the statute books at this time. Senator Curtis. Do you not think it would be safer to put the provision in there, that the proceeds should be deposited in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the tribe? Mr. Meeitt. We would have no objection tp that, but the legisla- tion already covers that point. Mr. CuETis. I know that, but the Osage Indians here have a claim where the Government took about $375,000 of their money without any law on earth for it 50 or 60 years ago, and they are liable to do it again if they are not protected. xl. tt q Senator McNaey. Did you submit this amendment to the Mouse 5 Mr. Meritt. No, sir. • . , ■ . o Senator McNart. Why come to us at this late hour with it < Mr Meeitt I had the item before the committee and gave Sena- tor La FoUette a copy of it several days ago and have not brought it to the attention of the committee because I wanted benator La Follette here inasmuch as it referred to a matter m his btate, but he has been furnished with a copy of this proposed legislation and if there is any obiection to it on the part of Senator La h oUette^ we would not ask that it go on the bill ; but it is very desirable legis- lation for the reason that there are 1,700 Indians there who have not been allotted, and they will not make any extensive improve- ments on the land when they do not hold title to the land; 260 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator CmtTis. It is legislation, however, and if anybody else should come here with allotment acts and "we put this on we would have no right to object. Mr.' Meeitt. It is subject to a point of order, and if it is objected to, of course it Avill be necessary to have it withdrawn, but it is de- sirable legislation. The Indians want thi^ legislation and the super- intendent of the reservation has recommended it. Senator Kendeick. I believe these Indian lands ought to be al- lotted as fast as it can be arranged to distribute them to their right- ful owners. Mr. Meeitt. We have a large number of Indians on that reserva* tion who want to begin farming operations, but they will not epend their money on lands for which they do not hold title. Senator McNart. I would like to have the views of Senator La FoUette. It affects his State. ^ Senator La Follette. I would not, if I could prevent it, consent to this amendment going on this bill. I do not think it is necessary to take the time of the committee, perhaps, to set forth at length my reasons for that opposition, but I will do so if the committee desires to hear me. Senator Cxjetis. You do not want it in the bill ? Senator La Follette. I do not, and I should oppose this legisla- tion. Mr. Meeitt. Then we will withdraw the legislation. Senator McNaey. I suggest that we call up that Minnesota item; Senator Fernald wants to leave in a moment. Senator Feenald. That was the item on page 26, Mr. Chairman, line 25. Senator Nelson appeared before the committee yesterday and asked that that item be cut down from $50,000 to $10,000, and gave good reasons, and I thought that should be done. I think I made the motion yesterday Senator La Follette. I wanted to add to my statement made a moment ago in regard to this Menominee Indian reservation, that I propose to visit the reservation this summer if there is no continu- ous session of Congress, and look fully into the matters there and consult with the Indians about this proposition. Senator Feenald. We went over this, Mr. Chairman, pretty gen- erally, and I do not know that it is necessary to add anything. Senator Nelson has explained the situation to my entire satisfaction on yesterday. Senator Cuetis. You come from a timber country, do you not, Senator Nugent? Senator Nugent. Yes, sir. Senator Ctjrtis. What about that; is that a sufficient amount of money to handle a proposition like that ? I think they ought to be given sufficient money to protect that property ; that is all. Senator Fernald. This reservation up there contains a large number of acres of pine timber. They have a sawmill there that is large enough to saw out the lumber that would be needed by the Indians to build their barns and houses and whatever they might require; $10,000 is sufficient to run a sawmill that will get out 10,000 or 12,000 feet of lumber a day without the supervision. The $10,000, 1 think, we would all approve of for keeping this saw- mill there and getting out this matured timber as it may come to INDIAN APPROPBIATION BIUL,, 1920. 261 maturity from year to year, but to go in and sell this timber off and to put a lumber company in there to cut everything that they would consider matured, it does seem to me is a very foolish proposition in trying to preserve these lands for the Indians. Senator Cubtis. What about the statement of the assistant com- missioner, that they had already, under existing law, entered into a contract to sell certain timber; and I think Senator Spencer sug- gested that a pro\iso at the end of the bill, at the end of this section, limiting the sale to the timber mentioned in tliat original act — — Mr. Meeitt. The act of May 18, 1916. Senator Curtis. Yes. Senator Feenald. That takes, as I understand it, about four-fifths of it. I think Senator Nelson estimated, or Mr. Meritt did, that there was about 100,000,000 feet there. Mr. Meeitt. There is more than 100,000,000 feet of timber on the reservation ; we are selling to the International Lumber Co. 80,000,000 feet at this time, and we are- getting $14 for the white pine and $10.25 for the Norway pine, which is a very good price indeed. This timber is matured and the Ked Lake Indians want it sold, and the delegate here from the Eed Lake Reservation has so expressed himself. The Chaiemax. Do I imderstand, Mr. Meritt, you have entered into a contract already for the sale of 80,000,000 feet out. of the 100,000,000 feet of timber on that reservation, four-fifths of it ? Mr. Meritt. Approximately 80,000,000 feet of this timber, covered by this contract with the International Lumber Co., but it will take four or five years for that company to manufacture this timber. There is another tract of timber on the point which it is estimated contains between thirty and forty million feet of timber for which no contract has been made. This appropriation is necessary not only to maintain the small sawmill on that reservation, which cuts about 18,000 feet a day, but it also enables us to hire Indians to go into the woods and bring to that small Government sawmill the dead and down and burned timber which we are cutting and selling to the Indians for the purpose of building homes and bams and fences. In addition to that we need an appropriation to help supervise the scal- ing and the cutting of this timber by the International Lumber Co., otherwise the Indians might lose considerable money because of the scaling not being correct. Senator McNaey. I understand you have this existing contract properly executed with some company for the sale of 80,000,000 feet? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. Has any act been performed with respect to the execution of the contract? Mr. M5EITT. Yes, sir; they have been cutting timber for a year on that reservation. Senator McNaet. Now, you are operatmg a sawmill, cuttmg this timber that has been burned over, to sell to the Indians. Mr. Meeitt. That is a small Government sawmill which we have on the reservation. , -r ■, u^ , ■ ■ n Senator McNart. I appreciate that. Is that selt-sustainmg? Mr. Meeitt. It is more than self-sustaining, but the proceeds from that'timber we must deposit in the Treasury of the United States, and 262 INDIAN APPROPRIATION IJILL,, 1920. we can not use it for administrative purposes with,QUt specific authojCT ' ity frora'Copgress. Senator McNary. The Indians buy the finished product, do they not? Mr. Mehitt. Yes, sir. Senator McNaet. And the moiiey they pay for the purchase of the timber is sufficient to p^y the operating expenses of the mill ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. Then you take that money and deposit it in the Treasury of the United States? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. Then you should have legislation authorizing yoft to spend that money to operate and maintain that mill. That being so, all the money you would need is for the purpose of seeing, that the Indians receive compensation for every foot of timber sold to this sawmill. Mr. Meritt. We would be satisfied with that legislation. Senator McNart. And that would require very little money. I un- derstand your system out there is what we call the checking system of scaling, isn't it ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. A man goes along and the purchaser of the tim- ber sends his agent out in the timber and he estimates the number of feet in a given log that is down. Isn't that true ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. And he places his estimate on the butt of that log? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. Your man comes along, and he is called a checker, and he looks it over and if he thinks there is more feet in that log than is indicated on the butt then he places his rule and measures on the log. Isn't that true ? Mr. Meritt. Mr. Kinney, our forestly man, is a technical man, and I would like to ask him to answer that question. Mr. KiNNBT. The trees are cut, and then our man goes along and actually scales the log. There is no estimating, except if the log is defective the man has to use his judgment as to whether it is fuU scaled or part scaled, but the purchaser has no one around estimating on how much is in the log ; he goes in and cuts his tree and then our man comes along and scales the log with a rule. Senator McNart. Then does the purchaser accept your figures with- out having anyone representing himself go there to make an estimate of it? Mr. KiNNET. He has his man he wishes to make his check, but we never accept his scale in any way. He has to accept our scale. There has been some criticism there. The purchaser has found some fault with it, that we were scaling too high, but he has never carried the . thing any further. TiMBERLAND, EeD LakE, MiNN., RESERVATION. STATEMENT OF E. I,. RODGEES, OF WALKER, MINN, Mr. EoDGEES. Mr. Chairman, if you will allow us to take up our matters at this time, I think we may be able to throw considerable INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 263 light upon the Red Lake situation which may be of help to thg com- nnttee. Senator McNaey. Does that pertain to this particular point we are trying to develop now ? Mr. RoDGERS. Yes, sir. The Chairman. You are at liberty to proceed with I'espect to that. Mr. EoDGERS. Yesterday you said we could have half an hour, and if this is satisfactory now The Chairman. The committee will hear you with respect to this matter which we are discussing at this time. Mr. EoDGERS. I am not prepared to discuss that, but if you will take up all of our matters Senator Fernald. I am obliged to leave at 1 o'clock, and I would be glad to have this^ settled, if it would seem consistent. Senator Walsh. There are some other gentlemen here who could in a few minutes illuminate this subject. Mr. Rodgers. Will you hear Mr. Ballinger upon that point? The Chairman. What does he know about it? Mr. Rodgers. He laiows all about it. Senator McNart. I move that we give Mr. Ballinger a ininute on this point. STATEMENT OF MR. WEBSTER BALLINGER. Mr. Ballinger. This proposition for which the department asks $50,000 is to ostensibly defray the expenses of a little sawmill that has been running there for a great many years. I do not know under what authority of law it was created or under what authority of law it now exists. That mill is run primarily for the purpose of cutting timber for the Red Lake Indians. It is situated on the south side of lower Red Lake. The timber cut — and I want to differen- tiate these two propositions — the timber cut is cut from the north side or lower Red Lake, logged across, and then cut into the timber. The Indian who buys the timber to-day — — The Chairman. Cut into timber or into lumber? Mr. Ballinger. Cut into lumber. The Indian who buys the tim- ber to-day pays the overhead cost of production. He pays nothing for the timber. That privilege is accorded exclusively to the Red Lake Indians. Now, Senators, if you will turn — Senator McNary is correct in his suggestion with reference to the rotation of this fund. My information is. Senators, that the funds now being derived from the sale of timber to the Indians is placed — if you will turn to page 416 of the House hearings — is being placed in the fund known as Indian moneys, proceeds of labor, Indians, $24,688.17 received last year. _ . Now, Senators, if you will observe the item immediately preced- ing that — if you will observe the item there, that the expenses, ac- count of timber operations, that year there was $8,084.44 spent for all other timber operations in that country. Nw, I understand, and I think I am correct, and I think the commissioner is mistaken, that these funds instead of being placed in the Treasury to the credit of the tribe are placed in this fund, and that fund under the act of 1887 as I recall, is, placed at the disposal of the department to use in any way it sees fit. 264 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Mekitt. That statement is not true, Mr. Chairman. Mr.' Ballingek. Now, Mr. Meritt, if you will produce the deposits to the committee here of that fund in the Treasury to the credit of the tribe, it will settle that question, ^'ou have got the figures and facts in your department. Now, Senators, that is the situation, you will observe; last year (hey spent $8,000. that covers the entire operations. Now, last year. Senators, they appropriated for this same purpose — that is, the last session of Congress did — $30,000 in one of the emergency appropria- tion bills and $50,000 more in the Indian appropriation bill. I have the bill with the item here. Now, Senators, that deals with the little mill. It is claimed here that there is a large expense in connection with the estimated scaling of timber. Senators, the man in charge of the timber scaling and logging operations in that country is Max Bums. Am I correct or not ? I inquire of the department. Mr. KijnXet. It is Marx Burns. Mr. Ballinckr. Marx Bnrus. He is one of the regular employees of the departm-ent, is he not, and paid out of the funds of the de- partment? Mr. Kinney. Yes, sir. Mr. Ballingee. Not a dollar of this money goes to him for scaling this timber. Not a dollar of it is necessary in connection AA'ith that contract, and therefore the only money that could possibly be needed is in connection with the operation of this mill. Senator Nelson knew what he was talking about. Senators, when he appeared before this committee, except he did not have the facts in detail to give them to you as I am giving them to you. Now, Senators, I say to you that the proceeds from that mill go into that fund, and I challenge the Indian Bureau in denying that, to prodiTce the records sho^ving the deposits to' the credit of these Indians in, the United States Treasury under the act of May 18, 1916, and I say to you. Senators, that instead of it being necessary to ap- propriate $50,000 or $10,000, it is. not necessary to appropriate a dollar. They can take the proceeds derived from the sale of this lumber and ran their mill. Senator "Walsh. What is all this about? By whom are you em- ployed ? Mr. Ballinger. Senator, I represent the general council of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. ^Ir. MEnrrr. , "We deny that fact, Mr. Chairman. 'Sly. Ballinger. I have my credentials, and in this connection I Avant to file them with the committee. Senator Walsh. That is aside from the question. You are here, at least purporting to represent the Chippewa Indians? Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. And you are objecting to this particular item?. Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. Why do the Indians object to this item? Mr. Balijnger. They look upon it as an absolute waste of their money. Senator Walsh. What do they claim becomes of the money? Ml-. Ballinger. Senator, their claim is this: That the' $50,000 hei-e appropriated is used, some of it, for running this mill: some INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 265 •of it for other purposes which they do not know. On about the 1st of December they wrote a letter to the Commissioner of Indian Affaii'S asking him to furnish them detailed information with refer- ence to the expenditure of this money, with reference to the amount •of timber cut and the net proceeds, and they have never been able to get any communication from the department. Senator Wai^h. So you do not know what does become of this money? You can not tell the committee what becomes of it? Mr. Ballixgee. I can not tell, and I can not obtain access to the accounts so that I can speak of it. Senator Walsh. Are you prepared to say it has been spent at all? Mr. Baluxgee. I do not know. Senator Walsh. It may be in the Treasury of the United States for all you know ? Mr. Ballingee. It may be; I do not know. Senator Ctjrtis. This report of the hearing shows $183,517 as the value of timber cut last year on the Red Lake. Mr. Ballingee. Yes, sir ; but that is under the contracts. Senator Curtis. I know ; I see it is. Senator Feexald. I must go now, and I leave my vote with Sena- tor McNary. Mr. Ballingee. In this connection, may I file — I was called upon by the department to do it the other da}- — a copy of the resolution passed by their general council and by the executive committee of the Chippewa General Council, so there may no question 'about it? I have certified copies of the council's proceedings and certified copies of the action of the executive committee, and I will be glad to have the clerk compare them so he will see that the copies which I am filing are accurate. Senator Walsh. To what do these relate ? Mr. Ballingee. Authorizing my appearance before the committee. Senator Walsh. I do not think that is a matter of interest to the -committee at this time. The Chairman. Is the chair to imderstand that we are going into the Chippewa matter at this time, or is the discussion being confined solely to this timber? Senator Walsh. The witness who is here tenders a large mass of papers as to his authority. I object to this at this time. It is a matter of no consequence whether he is really authorized or not. He has told us what he knows about this matter or what he thinks he Senator La Follette. When asked whom he represented and whom he appeared for here, he stated he appeared as authorized by this council, and that was" disputed by Mr. Meritt. It seems to me that puts Mr. Ballinger's statement somewhat under a cloud •of misrepresentation, and if that is in the record I do not see why Ve should not receive the authority he offers. Senator Walsh. I shall not object to it, but it seemed to me to be Introducing a collateral' matter and that the information is ]ust as useful to us, whether he was actually authorized or not Senator La Follette. It might not seem quite so reliable with that dispute in the record. , . , -^ Senator Walsh. I do not object to it. 286 IXDIA?r- APPEOPEIATIOK BILL, 1920. The Chairman. The papers tendered by Mr. Ballinger may be incorporated in the record. (The papers referred to are printed in full, as follows :) BIlKUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE GENERAL COUNCIL OF MINNESOTA OHIPPEWAB- AT THE Sixth AN>'fAL Session of the Gekekal (Council of Chippewas of JIlNNESOTA, AT BeMIDJI, MiNN., JuLY 9 TO 14, 1918. Pursuant to a call l).v the iiresident of the (Jeneral ('ouncil of ilhniesdla Chip- pewas. the lueoting was called to order by the said president, in the city hall, Beniidji, Minn., .Tuly 9, 191S, at 10 o'clock a. ni. AFTEENOON session, .U'LY 11, 11I18. Meeting- called to order by .Tolm W. Carl, vice president, at 1 p. ni., city hall, Bemidji, Minn. Jlr. Ed. L. Ko,^ers, county attorney of Cass County, addressed the council. Following his address, tlie chairman of the resolutions connnittee makes a statement on the actions of the committee, and presents resolutions that the committee had acted upon and suggests, in order to simplify matters, that each resolution be taken separately and uuuierically and acted upon. The- suggestion of the chairman of the resolutions conmiittee being approved by the- council, resolution * * * ^yas read, interpreted, and acted upon. MOKNING session, JULY 12, 1018. Meeting called to order by A^ice President .John \V. ( 'arl, at 9.30 a. m., at the city hall, Bemidji, Minn. Resolutions Nos. 3 and 12 of last year, -ivhieh -were olfered in place ot resolu- tion Xo. 9 the day before, were read by Mr. Morrison and interpreted. Resolution No. 3, 1917. Rciolred, That the General Council of the Chippewa Indians of M-innesuta hereby ratify and approve the action taken by the Chippewa delegates who attended the second session of the Sixty-fourth Congress of the United States in authorizing Webster Ballinger, an attorney at law of Washington, D. C, to take whatever .steps were necessary in the name and on behalf of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota to prevent the further use of their tribal funds in the payment of salaries of civil-service employees of the United States, and to secure for the Chippewa Indians preference in filling all positions, the salaries or emoluments of which are paid from the trust funds of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. Be it further resolved,. That the executive committee of the general couiicil be and they are hereby authorized and directed to enter into a contract as of the date of his employment by the Chippewa delegates in Washington, to wit, March 10, 1917, with Webster Ballinger, an attorney at law, of Washington, D. C, authorizing and empowering the said Webster Ballinger to take what- ever steps may be deemed necessary to prevnet the further expenditure of the trust funds of the Chippewa Indians in the payment of the salaries of civil- service employees of the United States, and to secure for the Chippea Indians of Minnesota preference in filling all positions, the salaries or emoulments of which are paid from the trust funds of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. Resolution No. 12, of 1917. /* is hereiy resolved, That the president of the general council and the ex- ecutive committee shall make such arrangement with Webster Ballinger, attorney, of the city of Washington, D. 0., to continue in his present capacity in representing the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota before the courts and de- partments of the United States upon the cases now in progress between the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota and the officers and departments of the United States in Washington, and to arrange to provide for all necessary expenses 'to continue to completion all suits and actions already taken on behalf of the Chip- pewa Indians of Minnesota ; and to provide for and pay the fees of said Webster INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 267 Ballinger for said services; the legislative committee of the geiieiul council is rfi?''^^^, "'^^^'l *° procure from Congress au appropriation of the funds Of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota in the Treasurv of the United States a sum sumcient to pay said fees and expenses which may be found and agreed upon ny ., President, and the executive committee of the general council. Resolution No. 9 was duly withdrawn and motion was made to readopt Resolutions Nos. 3 and 12 as passed by the general council in 1917 Motion unanimously carried. AITEENOON SESSION, JULY 12, 1918. Meeting called to order by the president at 1.30 p. m. ******* Resolution No. 23 was read, interpreted, and acted upon. Resolution No. 23. Whereas Webster Ballinger, of the city of Washington. D. C, the duly author- ized and recognized attorney for the Chippewas of Minnesota has never failed to assist the Chippewas of Minnesota both as to their tribal as well as their individual afCairs, and has for the most part been poorly compensated for the many valuable services and assistance he has constantly rendered to ,the tribe and individual members thereof, and our people feeling the great depth of gratitude we owe the said Webster Ballinger, being mindful of the many ob- stacles he has met and overcome while engaged in assisting our people to obtain their rights before the courts and the departments of the Government, hereby Resolve, That it is the sincere and heartfelt desire of the members of the general council assembled in general council at the city of Bemidji, this 11th day of July, 1918, that we extend to said Webster Ballinger our sincere gratitude for the sympathetic attitude he has uniformly shown our people, and to assure him of our profound appreciation and continued confidence. Upon motion of Mr. Jackson and seconded by Laundry Resolution No. 23 was duly adopted. ******* Minutes of the Executive Committee of the General Council of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, hfld at: Bemidji, Minn., Novembek 2.q, 191S. Pusuant to a call by the chairman of the executive conniiittee of the General Council of Minnesota Chippewas, a meeting was called to order in room 131, at the Marltham Hotel, in the city of Bemidji, Minn., November 29, 1918, at By order of the chairman the secretary called the roll, and a quorum being present the committee Immediately took into consideration the vacancy m the executive committee caused by the death of Thomas Eeed, member of the executive committee from the Leech Lake Reservation. ******* The following resolution was offered for the consideration of the committee: resolution. Be it resolved Dy the crecutire cowmUtee in scs..ion asxemblcdjn the city of Bemidji Minn, this mh day of November. 1918, That the legislative committee ofTheGenem Council of Minnesota Chippewas be, and is hereby, authorized to secure "i^ appropriation from the Congress of the United States^ not to ^ceed $4 000 as a fee to Webster Ballinger, attorney of the city of Washing- ton, DC. for professional services rendered the Chippewa Indians of "^Uprmotion l:v Ben. L. Fairbanks and seconded by Paul H. Beaulieu, the above resolution was unanimously adopted. Mr Meeitt. I think it is only proper that I make a statement here i„ Connection with Mr. Ballinger's appearance before this committee, alleo^ng to represent the Chippewa Indians. 268 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator MoNart. Just before that I should like to have the repre- sentative of the Eed Lake Eeservation, in which this timber is lo- cated Mr. Meeitt. If this goes into the record at this time, may I not make a statement, inasmuch as his alleged authority has gone into the record ? Senator McNart. Didn't you make that statement the other day? Mr. Meritt. N"o, sir. Senator McNahy. Very well. Mr. Meeitt. Tliere are two factions in this room alleging to repre- sent the Chippewa Indians. One, known as the Morrison faction^ consisting of the mixed-blood Indians in tlie Chippewa country, to whom Senator Nelson yesterday referi'ed before this committee as representing themselves, the mixed blood, and the white people of Minnesota. The other faction is reiaresented by Mr. Coffey, who is here to speak for the full-blood Indians of Minnesota, and he arose in this committee room the other day, when Mr. Ballinger got up before the committee and claimed to represent the Chipji^wa Indians, and denied the fact that he was an attorney for the Chippewa Indians. The department does not recognize Mr. Ballinger as an attorney for the Chippewa Indians, and he has no authority to come before this committee and claim to represent tliose Indians. If he v^ants to ap- pear liere and represent the mixed-blood Indians, we have no objection to that appearance, but we do object to Mr. Ballinger coming before this committee and gi^'ing false impressions and making statements that are absolutely untrue. He has made statements in regard to these funds that are absolutely untrue, and we can prove that by the records, ■ not only of our department but by the records of the Treasury De- partment. Senator Curtis. May I ask you a question right there, Mr. Merritt? Doesn't he claim to come here under the authority of the act here, au- thorizing these people to use their $10,000 as they saw fit ? Mr. Meeitt. He comes here under resolutions passed by one of the councils held in the Chippewa country last year. That council is con- trolled by the mixed-blood Indians, and the other council, headed by Mr. Coffey, denies Mr. Ballinger's right to come liere and represent them, and they protest against his appearance before this committee claiming to be the attorney for the Chippewa Indians. Senator Curtis. The question I asked is, does he not appear imder the authority which we find on page 28 of this bill, authorizing the Chippewa council to take $10,000 and pay their expenses, includuig neccHtin-v expenses of legislative committee visiting Washington, and so forth'? Mr. Meeitt. He claims to come before the conunittee under a reso- lution from one of those councils. Senator Walsh. I am afraid we are going to drift off' into a collat- eral matter that just noAv is of no consequence. It is a question of whether this appropriation should l)e made concerning the timber. Xow let us try to confine oui- attention to that for the present, and not drift off into this collateral matter. We have heard the statements of Mr. Ballinger and he has put his authority into the record, and we have heard the statement of Mr. Meritt about the matter. Let us not INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 26& try out that question at this time. I object to any further discussion of this subject now. The CiiAiKMAN. That is the reason the Cliair made the inquiry as to whether or not it was intended to go into this entire matter or confine this discussion solely to the proposition of the timber on the Red Lake Eeservation. Senator McNart. May I have the voice of the Eed Lake Indians through their representative? STATEMENT OF MR. PETEU GRAVES. Mr. GroVves. It seems to me the Indian Office would know whetlier that money is necessary to conduct the operations on the Red Lake Reservation. If it is necessary, we want it; we must pro- tect ourselves against the lumbermen. If we leave the logging to the lumbermen, we will lose. I will say again what I said the other day, that the Red Lake Indians want to turn their tim- ber into money and they have a purpose to do so. Senator Nel- son said yesterday that there was no other bunch of timber, but there is a bunch of timber right here [indicating on map], what is Imown as Cass Lake, in what is laiown as the Minnesota National Forest. There is plenty of timber there that anybody can go and see, if he wants to see the pine. In the act of 1904 the Red Lake In- dians wanted to take 160 acres and the pine lands were to be divided among the allottees. Then the mixed bloods did make selections of the best pine there was, so the Indians wanted to be fair with each and every one of the tribes and objected to having the pine taken by a few, just the same as happened to our neighboring reservations, and for that reason, as I understand, they came down here to sell this pine two years ago, and I understood Senator Nelson to say that he wanted to perpetuate that Red Lake Indian forest. It defeats the ob- ject of the Red Lake Indians. The Indians want this pine sold for their benefit, but there is a certain tract right between the two lakes ; there is a kind of peninsula, and probably there is about 70,000,000 feet of pine left that is to be reserved, as I understand. The Chairman. Is that the national forest to which you have just referred ? Mr. Graves. No ; that is not the national forest. I am ]ust refer- ring to the Minnesota National Forest which is located in the Chip- pewa Reservation. The Chairkan. Is that a pine forest? Mr. Graves. Yes, sir ; it is a forest reserve. The Chairman. Is it a pine forest? Mr. Graves. Yes, sir; it is pine reserved in Minnesota, and this Eed Lake timber, it was the intention of the Indians that belonged on the Red Lake Reservation to sell this timber, and we certainly want to use any of our money for our protection in the scaling and looking after the logging of that timber, because we want to get as much as we can out of this timber. There is enough reserved, about 70 000 000— from 50,000,000 to 70,000,000— feet of pine is reserved up between the two lakes, and the logging is done on the southern por- tion of the reservation. These other factions here want to make you believe they have an interest on that Red Lake Reservation. 270 We say they have not, and we want this appropriation made. We need the money and we leave it to the Indian Office to know whether this money is necessary to conduct properly the logging operations for the benefit of the Red Lake Indians. The Chairman. But I understand both the full bloods and the mixed bloods on the Red Lake Reservation desire this timber cut. Mr. Graves. Yes, sir ; for their benefit. Senator Walsh. Mr. Meritt, can you give us the manner in which this appropriation was expended last year; the items to which It went? Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Kinney, the forester of the Indian Service is* here, and will give you the information. Senator Walsh. What was the appropriation last A'ear? Senator McNary. $80,000. Senator Walsh. Let us just see how that $80,000 was spent. Mr. Kinney. It seems before we take that up a few things ought to be straightened out that we do not seem to understand at all. The act of 1916 i^rovided for the selling of the timber on the Red Lake Reservation; previous to that we had no authority to sell any timber but burned timber. The consequence was whenever timber was burned we would sell it at about half what the timber was really worth. The act of May, 1916. pi'ovicled for the creation of the Red Lake Forest — not a national forest, but an Indian forest, as dis- tinguished from the allotted land, agricultural lands — and provided that the timber might be sold. It also made provision for the run- ning of the sawmill and the manufacturing of the timber on the reservation, but it contained the provision that no money should be expended without a special act of Congress. Now, it had always been our custom for years to run this mill each year to supply lumber to the Indians. Sometimes we have sold small (}uantities that were over. Under this provision we could do noth- ing without a special act of Congress. Almost immediately after that act was passed in the spring of 1917, there came a very severe fire which ran over the whole reservation; it burned south of the lake practically everywhere. I was there in May, within two weeks after the fire was through, and went over all of that country on foot, and I know that more than half of the sections, probably 75 per cent of the whole country, was burned over, and very severely. There was nothing to do but to sell that timber. We proceeded at once to ad- vertise the timber and in the fall we sold it at as high a figure as pine has ever brought in that country, surprisingly high. $14.10 for the white pine and $10.25 for the Norway pine, and other species accordingly. Senator Kendrick. That included the burned timber? Mr. Kinney. Yes, sir; south of the lake; only that south of the lake. Senator Walsh. Did it include anything which was not burned? Mr. Kinney. Yes, sir ; we sold all the timber south of the lake. Senator McNary. "V^Hiat was the proportion of burned timber and of the uninjured timber? Mr. Kinney. I should say that certainly 75 per cent of the area had burned over. I would not say more than 30 per cent was Senator Walsh. I suppose for the purpose of logging economically you had to sell the unburned timber with the burned timber ? INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL, 1920. 271 Mr. IviNNET. Absolutely; there was no sane man who would go ind see the timber who would think of going there and trying to get s«t- just that that would surely die and leave the other. There would be some places where the Norway was all the timber that would die. Generally just a tree here and there. I am sure the Eed Lake Indians were satisfied. Now., under that sale we were obliged to pay all the scaling expense ; we believed it was best to pay all the expenses our- selves, and have them take our scaling. We have to employ as high as eight scalers there at times. This past year labor conditions have been such that the company has not carried on nearly as extensive operations as it had hoped. At times they only had three or four scalers. We had authority for eight. That would take, throughout the year, something like $10,000; we have not expended that amount. This next year we will spend — we have authority for eight scalers, but we have not had to exceed five on the work. If conditions should be such that we did not need them, we would cut it down to three or two. At the same time, this timber which was burned south of the lake, the fires were burning north of the lake, and I may say the spring of 1917 was the dryest season v/e have had in 10 years. There was about 4,000,000 feet burned on the north side of the lake in this pine. The gentleman from Red Lake has just said they wanted to reserve that. It was a question of either letting that stand and spoil, or turning some one loose in there who would purchase it. We thought it best not to sell that timber; we thought it best to try and log it with the Indians, and give the Indians some work and not sell the timber, because we did not want to turn loose others who would cut the pine timber that Avas not hurt. We had to ask Congress for special authority to carry on that log- ging operation. That is not scaled. We have to put crews into the wowis, and get the timber and pay all expenses of logging that tim- ber. We asked Congress for that $80,000, and in the meantime we had to go ahead with the logging. Undoubtedly we would have suffered a depreciation of 30 per cent if we had not cut that timber that was burned over. Congress provided in that act for reimbursement for the proceeds of labor. We went ahead and expended the proceeds of labor to ciirrv on that operation, until that law could be passed. Through the winter of 1918 we were conducting logging operations. We ex- pended more than that $15,000 which that law provided might be reimbursed out of the proceeds of labor ; we expended more than the $15,000 proceeds of labor. The Jogs are cut, banked, taken to the lake, and put in. Last spring we boomed some of them across. Previous to this the previous two winters, we had had small logging operations over there and there were about 1,000,000 feet, exactly 1,033,000 feet, of loo-s in the lake at that time before we put any in that winter. We brought last summer, that 1,033,000 feet already m the lake, and part of this that we cut last year, across the lake and manufactured about 1 300 000 feet of it. We only manufactured 110,000 feet of logs cut in 1917-18 The other logs are in the lake to-day. It is the custom in that country to cut logs and put them in the lake. Sonie companies have loo-s in the lake four or five years. We had this last fall on hand 1 870 000 feet. We are continuing the logging this winter. 272 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. We have already about 2,000,000 feet cut. We have about 1,000,000' feet to cut. We liope to get them all in, all of these fire-killed logs, this winter. This will be cut and put into the water. INext spring, as early as possible, we will tow these logs across and manufacture them at this mill. What we are asking for here is an item of, per- haps, $10,000, probably less than that, covering the scaling of the logs sold to the International Lumber Co., the logs on which we are getting $11.10 on the stump — about $10,000, ox something less than that, will cover that. The other $40,000 will be used in this logging operation and the manufacturing of the logs at the mill. As you know, the cost of labor has gone up greatly this past year» We are paying the Indians $3 and $3.50, and even more, per day for labor. Senator Walsh. What is that lumber worth when it is manufac- tured ? Mv. KiNKET. We have been selling it this last year at $15 a thou- sand, about what it costs. This year we can not sell it for less than $20 a thousand, and we had decided to sell it for a little more than that, $25 a thousand, anyway. . Senator Walsh. You expect to sell it to the Indians for enough to make good this appropriation? Mr. KiNNET. Yes, sir ; we do not expect to make any profits on that which we sell to the Indians. We will probably have more Senator Walsh. You will have much more. Mr. KiNXEY. More -than we will need for the Indians, but the proposition is up of selling part of that lumber, or, possiblj', selling some of these logs without manufacturing them into luinber, those that wp are cuting this winter. Senator McNaey. Now, here you have cut, under this schedule you have mentioned, about 3,000,000 feet. Mr. KiN^ET. Last year 1,197,000, and we have cut 2,000,000 feet already this year, and we will cut about 3,000,000 feet this year. Senator McNaet. That is, out of the $80,000? Mr. KiNNET. Yes, sir. Senator McNaey. And you have expended $80,000 of this Mr. KiKNEY. No, sir; not all of it. Senator McNart. You say that having the stumpage, the Indians owning the lands, you pay nothing for the stumpage, and you sell it at cost, $20 a thousand feet? Mr. Kinney. To the Indians. Senator McNaey. That is the cost when you only have that operat- ing expense to pay, and you get yoilr standing timber for nothing ; is that the idea? Mr. Kinney. That is about it. Senator McNaey. I would not want to give my views on that business transaction. Mr. KiNNET. Yes; but you know logging conditions are much different in the West. Senator McNaey. Can you take that timber and go out and com- pete in the market with white labor? You can not do it. They object and say you are robbing the Indians by making them pay $14 for timber which they own, and you had better let the stuft bum up or rot. You are throwing money away to manufacture, INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL, 1920. • 273 stuff at $20 a thousand. I will agree to lay the same stuff, or better stuff, down frojn my State Mr. KiNNET. There was a. man in my office yesterday from one of the Western States who says he wishes to buy more than half a mil- lion dollars worth of timber from us. He presented his figures. Those figures showed about $23 cost per thousand for putting lum- ber out down there. Senator McNaey. Where Avas that, in the South? Mr. Kinney. Yes, sir. Senator McNary. Trees are half a mile apart there and about the size of three unbrellas. Mr. Kinney. I want to say that the statements which were made about the money Senator Walsh. Senator McNary, I gather from what you say you could ship lumber from your State to Minnesota and provide it to the Indians at a less amount than they pay for manufacturing it right on the ground? Senator McNaey. Right at this time, perhaps not ; but the Oregon lumber used to come — I know something about the sawmill business. Senator Kendeick. There is no doubt about that, but do you know about our freight rates? Senator McNaey. I am not saying we could do it at this time. I know we formerly laid down lumber in Chicago which was better than this Norway pine at $21.50 a thousand. Mr. Meeitt. This is burned timber and we are giving the Indians employment in the manufacture of this timber and furnishing them with lumber with which to build their homes. Senator Kendrick. I am about half way, perhaps, between Sena- tor McNary's country and this country which you are speaking of, not in a line, but almost, and we pay aJbout $32, 1 think, for the lum- ber from your country. Senator McNaey. Yes ; but you get it less than they get it. You must remember that that lake and ocean come into competition and you are inland, and the freight rate is less than you get it at. We get things in Oregon where water meets rail competition at less than you do. Mr. Meeitt. I would like Mr. Kinney to furnish the committee in- formation about what becoines of these funds, in answer to the statement made by Mr. Ballinger. Senator Walsh. It would be interesting to have a detailed state- ment of these expenditures us well as information concerning the deposit of the funds. Senator McNaey. The timber that is burned over, you know, and I know, will stand for a good many years without very much depre- ciation of quality. Mr. Kixney. That is not true in that country. Everybody will tell you that Norway pine or white pine that is burned, and badly burned, so it will die, that it will depreciate 30 per ( ent, and perhaps more, within two years. Conditions are altogether different there. Senator McNaey. Is this timber worth something for stumpage? Isn't there a sale for it in the open inarket? Mr. Kinney. Yes, sir; I think this timber across the lake, we are getting probably would have a sale for $6 or $7. 106080—19 18 274 * INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator McNaey. That being so, isn't it a whole lot better for the , Indian to go and sell it as stumpage rather than tarke money from the United States Government— it is not tribal funds, is it? Senator Walsh. Yes. Senator McNaey. Well, tribal funds, and attempt to manufacture it and figure it clear out of reason in competition with people con- ducting private enterprises? Mr. KiNNET. It is not out of reason with private enterprises in that locality. Senator Walsh. Let us see. Have you any figures on the opera- tions of this International Lumber Co. ? What are their costs ? « Mr. KiNNET. I have no figures on their costs. Senator Walsh. What do they sell their product for ? Mr. Kinney. I w'ould say that the same class of lumber that we have been manufacturing and selling to the Red Lake Indians there at $15 this last year, and we expect ^ye ought to have $20 next year, that this lumber can not be purchased in the open market there for less than $35 a thousand. There is no chance for it. There is ab- solutely no chance of getting it for less than that — the same lot. Senator La Follette. How much Indian labor do you use in tak- ing this from the stump to the finished product ? Mr. Kinney. Just all we can get. Senator La Follette. I know, but that doesn't tell me anything. What percentage of your labor is Indian labor. Mr. Kinney. I do not know, Senator, what the percentage is. Senator La Follette. In the logging operations? Mr. Kinney. I should say considerably more than 50 per cent last year, in the logging operation. Senator La Follette. After you get to the mill, do you use any Indian labor? Mr. Kinney. Yes, sir. Senator La Follette. What percentage, about, in the mill ? Mr. Kinney. More than 50 per cent — considerably more than that at the Eed Lake Mill. Senator La Follette. Now, do you contend that this Indian labor is uneconomical labor? Mr. Kinney. I would say that it is not as economical as white labor. That is, we will not get as much from an Indian, generally speaking, as you will from white men, but the Eed Lake Indians are particularly good workers. Senator La Follette;. Yes; on most of the timbered reservations that I know anything about the Indians are good loggers. Mr. Kinney. Yes; I think the Red Lake — I couldn't say what the percentage would be, but I should think it is slightly less than we get out of the white crews. It depends on the white crews. I have seen white crews which were not as good as the Indians; they will quit in the middle of the afternoon. Senator La Follette. So that your labor cost is not very much more, on account of using Indian labor where one-half of it is Indian labor, and where that is about as good as the white labor, than as though you used altogether white labor? Mr. Kinney. No, sir. I should say that in a small mill, such as we have at the Red Lake Reservation Avhere ^'e could produce lum- ber at $20 with Indian labor, they could produce it for $17 with INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL, 1920. ' 275 white labor, possibly; there is not more than that diiference. Yoii understand, and Senator McNary will understand, that there is a great difference between the manufacture in the mill where it is turn- mg out 100,000 feet a day and where you are manufacturing 10,000 or 20,000 feet a day. Senator Walsh. Does this International Lumber Co. employ any Indian labor? Mr. Kinney. Yes, sir ; that is in their contract. They do not get many of them, because most of thpn^ are employed in our operations. They use largely white labor. They would take them gladly if they could get them. Senator McNart. Is there any balance of the $80,000 unexpended? Mr. KiNNET. I believe only about $65,000 of that is to be expended- Senator McNaey. That has been expended? Mr. Kin NET. That will be expended this year. Senator McNaet. Of that $80,000 appropriated last year ? Mr. Kin NET. Yes, sir. Senator McNaet. All you need is enough money to see that proper scaling is made and the timber sold to this company under the con- tract? Mr. Kin NET. What are we going to do with those logs in the lake — those 4,000,000 feet of logs in the lake? Senator McNaet. I would dispose of them very quickly to people operating private mills, if it was me. But you say you have $65,000 that has been expended this year? Mr. KiNNET. Yes, sir. Senator McNaet. That leaves you $15,000 to care for these logs? Mr. KiNNET. No; that will lapse at the end of the year, and we will have nothing to carry on the operations during the summer to complete the work. The total expenditu.re of 1917-18 was for the $1,197,240 feet of logs, $11,046.31. The cost of manufacturing 110,000 feet of these logs was $1,054.68, making the total cost $12,100.99. We now have on hand the 110,000 feet of lumber valued at $3,300; 1,087,840 feet of logs, valued at $20,909.37. These are the figures that the superintendent, gave the other day. I would reduce the value of the logs, possibly, slightly. He has g'iven it as about $20 a thousand for the logs. Senator McNaet. $23,000. Mr. KiNNET. That would be $24,209.37. Senator McNaet. Of the finished product on hand ? Mr. KiNNET. Well, part of these are logs; 1,000,000 feet of logs not manufactured vet. When this operation began we had 1,000,000 feet of logs in the lake that had been put in the preceding year. We have manufactured these, and only 110,000 feet of the logs cut last winter. We have on hand 1,000,000 feet of these logs, and those cut this winter. They will make 4,000,000 feet to be manufactured this year, and we are asking on the estimate of the superintendent $40,000 to cover the manufacture and all expenses connected with that and any other operation we need to conduct. Here is a contingency that it seems to me the Senate should consider: That should a fire occur during this summer, making it necessary that we cut 100,000 or 500,000 feet this next year, we can do nothing except as this money is expended, because the act of 1916 ties our hands, so all we can do is 276 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. to let that burned timber stand and spoil unless we have authority of this disposition. Senator Ctjetis. You say it will stand for two years. You can get an appropriation in that time. Mr. KiNNET. You have suffered your losses within the two years, Senator. Senator Curtis. I thought you said it would last for two years. Mr. KiNNET. Yes, sir; it will. Mr. Meeitt. Let the gentleman gtate what becomes of the proceeds from the sale of this timber. Was Mr. Ballinger correct in his state- ment that this money was available for further expenditure? Mr. Kinney. Mr. Ballinger was in error. All of this money musf be deposited under the act of May 18, 1916, into the Eed Lake 4 per cent deposit. Not one dollar of it has been deposited nor can be deposited in money proceeds to labor, as stated by Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Meeiti'. I want to state that this is a sample of the misin- formation that Mr. Ballinger furnishes the committee about the Chippewa matters. Senator McNary. Let me ask this question; I hope it may be answered : In the hearing before the subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the House tables give the Eed Lake conditions. Does that mean the aggregate fund or does it mean the amount which was placed there last year from the sale of this timber? Mr. Kinney. Do you know what date that was made up ? Senator McNary. I do not know. This is 1918 report. Senator Curtis. It is supposed to be for the last year. Mr. Kinney. None of the proceeds from our operation of this logging operation had come in then. As I told you we only manu- factured 110,000 feet which we had on hand. Senator McNary. How much money will you have on hand to add to this fund which is given in the report for this year? Mr. Kinney. I can not say how much we will have on hand. All the lumber we sell will be sold at $20 or more, if it goes to the In- dians, and more than that if it goes to the whites. Senator McNary. You want $50,000 more, and that makes $130,000? Mr. Kinney. Yes, sir. Senator McNary. Would you receive from the sale of this timber a simi of money equal to $130,000 appropriated to you for the manu- facture of this timber and the scaling? Mr. Kinney. $130,000 less the $20,000 or more that we pay for the scaling on the other sale. I should guarantee that, I think. We will have the $130,000 less the amount we pay for the scaling on the other sale. Senator McNary. You will have $130,000 to -add to this fund of the Red Lake Indians? Mr. Kinney. Yes, sir; and much more from the sale. Senator McNary. I am speaking about this timber for which you want this appropriation, when it is felled and manufactured, this money will be an amount equal to the amount we appropriate and place here to the credit of these Indians? Mr. Kinney. I am sure we will not be losing one cent, and we are making on that deal. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 277 Senator McNaey. That being so, that is a stand-off, and would it not be better business proposition for the Indians to go without ap- propriating this money and make an outright sale? That would be all velvet. Mr. KiNNET. May I say the situation is such that we would have unalterable opposition in the Senate to a sale. Senator McNaet. I do not know as to that. I know it is salable standing timber. I do not care to discuss it further, and I move, in conformity with the wishes of Senator Nelson, that the amount be reduced from $50,000 to $10,000. (The question being put, resulted: Yeas, 2; nays, 2, as follows: Yeas, Senators McNary and Ferriald; nays. Senators Walsh and Curtis.) Senator Curtis Let me make this suggestion before we vote : Mr. Meritt, couldn't you get along with a $15,000 appropriation and authority for you to use the unexpended balance ? Mr. Meritt. We can get along with a $16,000 appropriation for supervising the timber sale, if you will give us authority to use the proceeds from the sale of the lumber from the mill for operating purposes, and I will be glad to draft an item along that line. Senator Walsh. Making thaj; a revolving fund ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Why can you not draw something of that kind and submit it to Senator Nelson ; he is so deeply interested in this. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Can you draw one and submit it to him ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Have that ready after lunch. Senator Walsh. Is there any opposition to the amendment pro- posed, authorizing the Crows to institute suit in the Court of Claims ? Mr. Meritt. We have not objection to the item as carried either in your bill or in the Nugent bill. We do object to the item as sub- mitted by Robert Yellowtail for several reasons. (Thereupon at 2.15 o'clock p. m. the committee adjourned to Mon- day morning, February 17, 1919, at 10.30 o'clock.) 'i'lO'i INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. monday, february 17, 1919. United States Senate, COJIMITTEE ON InDIAN AfFAIES, Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10.30 o'clock a. m. Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. The Chairman. What is the item you have in mind, Mr. Hen- derson ? STATEMENT OF DANIEL B. HENDERSON. Mr. Henderson. The item is not on the bill. May I ask the com- mittee if they will add to the bill this item ? The Chairman. You say there are two chiefs of the Chippewa Tribe ? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir ; there are two Chippewa chiefs, Wah-we- yea-oumig and Ain-dus-o-geshig, Mille Lac chiefs. Thev want the following legislation added to the bill. (The paper referred to is printed in full as follows:) That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he hereby is, directed to pay, out of any money in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota, proceeds of tlie final judgment obtained In the Court of Claims against the United States, in case numbered thirty thousand four hundred and forty-seven, entitled : " The Mille Lac Band of Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota versus The United States," the following sums : To Wah-we-yea-oumig and Ain-dus-o-geshig, Jlille Lac chiefs, each $5,000; to Me-ge-zee, a Mille Lac chief, $500; to the heirs of Go-gee, a Mille Lac chief, $500 ; to the heirs of Nay-gwa-nay-be-ke-wain-zee, a Mille Lae Chief, $500 ; upon the execution by each of a receipt in full for all claims and demands against the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, or any band thereof, for services rendered and money expended in connection with the preparation or prosecution of the said case, the sums hereby appropriated to be immediately available. The Chairman. Has the Court of Claims said this money was due them? Mr. Henderson. The matter has not been referred to the Court of Claims. If I may make a brief statement, they are here to speak for themselves ; but I can, perhaps, save some time to the committee, ' being thoroughly familiar with the history of the case from the beginning of the case as one of the attcwmeys. Since 1899 these two chiefs have been working in this matter which resulted in a judgment of nearly $8,000 in favor of the Chippewas of Minnesota. The suit was brought on the theory that the Mille Lac Band of Chippewas was entitled to this fund, which the Court of Claims found should be paid to all the Chippewas in the State of Minnesota. The Mille ; ; . 279 280 Lac Band had agreed with these people, I am told, to give them $10,000 apiece — the two old chiefs. After the judgment was rendered in favor of the Chippewas of Minnesota, it became necessary for them to come and submit their claim for compensation to the general council of the tribe. That was done ; you have in your records here copies of the resolutions of the general coimcil authorizing the pay- ment to each of the older chiefs, the head chiefs, of $5,000; and to each of the three subchiefs, Me-ge-zee, Go-gee, and Nay-gwa-nay-be- ke-wain-zee, $.500 each. Since that time Go-gee has died as has Nay- gwa-nay-be-ke-wain-zee and the appropriation just made will be in favor of the heirs of tlie two subchiefs. • There is no question, Mr. Chairman, about the service — the value of the service rendered by these two old men. Indeed, I may include them all, because, as I told you, from 1899 until the time the judg- ment was i-endered in the Supreme Court of the United States, I was in close contact with these people on their reservation every summer or so and they were in Washington every winter. I could tell this committee things about the kind of services they rendered and the capacity of that man Wah-we-yea-oumig, which, I think, would con- vince you or any other lawyer of the reasonableness of the allowance made by that tribe or made by the Chippewas of Minnesota in their behalf. Senator Nugent. This money is Indian money? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. It belongs to the Mille Lac Band ? Mr. Henderson. No ; to the Chippewas of Minnesota. The Chairjian. Is there any opposition by any of the members of the tribe to paying out this money? Mr. Henderson. Not that I know of. On the contrary, there are two factions there which are opposed to each other in every other re- spect, but they agree on this, and there was unanimous action on the part of the Bemidji council in favor of the allowance of these sums for these old chiefs. The services were of inestimable value to the tribe — that is, to the extent of three-fourths of a million dollars. The claim originated with Wah-we-yea-6umig, and from 1895 down to 1915 or 1916, when we obtained judgment in the court, he was persistent in his efforts, and they were most intelligent efforts, and you can determine that yourselves by referring to the public docu- ments that contain the speeches of that man. I can say I never heard a more eloquent address, white, red, or otherwise, than the speech made by that old man before that commission. They are here to speak for themselves, however, and if the committee desires to interrogate them I think they will find they can qualify and justify in all respects. STATEMENT OF MRS. ELLA H. BEAULEAU. Mrs. Beaui>eau. I also have a claim of $5,000 in this Mille Lac case. The Chairman. Do you raise any opposition to the claim ? Mrs. Beauijeau. No; I am not. I have a claim of $5,000 in there. The Chairman. In here? Mrs. Beatoeau. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Then, is your claim mentioned in this amend- ment? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 281 Mrs. Beauleau. Yes, sir; mv claim is mentioned. Mr. Henderson. No ; she does not understand you. iiie Chairman. Your claim is not mentioned in this amendment? t;. u^ii TfT^^^"^^" ^^^ ^" ^'^^- Henderson's amendment, but it is in T^ n -^ ^^^^ ^^ mentioned— Mrs. Ella Beauleau. . Ihe Chairman. I do not see your claim mentioned here. benator Nugent. How many others are there who have claims in that ; and whose claims are mentioned ? Mr. Henderson. I represent only the Mille Lac chiefs, Mr. Chair- man. The Chairman. Mrs. Beauleau's claim is not in your amendment ? Mr. Henderson. No, sir. Senator Nugent. Are there any others who have claims? ; Mr. Henderson. I have one or two on whose behalf a bill has been filed. There is a bill pending in Congress and before this com- mittee, I think, in behalf of two others. Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, was there not an agreement be- tween the House and the Senate last year that no claim amounting to over $100 should be put on this bill? That is my recollection, and last year all claims of over $100, 1 think, or $200 were eliminated. The Chairman. That was certainly true as to claims against the Government, and I think probably true as to claims against the Indian tribes. That opens the same old question. My desk is filled with claims, not only against the Government but against the tribes. Should we treat one person different from another? If we have a hard and fast rule it is all right with me. If we are going to open the bill to claims I have about a dozen to put in myself. That is for you to decide, however. Mr. Hexderson. I was going to ask if the difference might be flailed to the attention of the committee, that this is a matter that lias been authorized and \oted on by their tribe for them. _ The Chairman. I have claims in my desk that everybody says ought to be paid. I assume your claim is meritorious. I say, how- ever, the question is do you want to open this bill now to claims? That is a question of policy which you have to decide. Mr. Henderson. This matter has been before the department. The Chairman. Mine have been before the department for years. This has no more merit to it than anybody else's claim, Mr. Beau- leau's claim is as good as anyone else's claim, doubtless. The ques- tion for the committee to decide is do you want to put these claims on the bill? Mrs. Beauleau. I wish mine to go on the bill. The Chairman. And if anybody else's goes on, yours will go on •also, Mrs. Beauleau. Senator Nugent. What would be the procedure? Senator Curtis. A private bill could be introduced, because pend- ing them they let this go off until the appropriation comes in here- Mr. Henderson. There is a bill ; there was a contest as to putting these items on ; the purpose in introducing this separate amendment is to eliminate the Mille Lac chiefs, as to whom there is no contro- versy and no contest as between factions among the Chippewa In- dians. 282 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. The Chairman. Now, personally, my sympathies are with you ; so are my sympathies with hundreds in addition to this ; these matters could be disposed of at any time. Mrs. BEATiLEAtT. I waut to say that Mr. Beauleau worked for four years with these Mille Lac Indians ; he was their attorney and coun- sel for a great many years and I think this is a just and right claim of mine. Senator Nugent. Did you have a bill presented, a private bill presented ? Mrs. Beauleau. I have had a bill presented, but they have made a new bill and I do not know anything about this. , Senator Curtis. Your claim was in the first bill? Mrs. Beauleau. Yes, sir. STATEMENT OF JOHN W. CARL. Mr. Carl. Mr. Chairman, a bill was introduced last year for two other claims, the estate of Gus H. Beauleau and B. L. Fairbanks. There is a bill for those two items. The Chairman. There is a bill pending ? Mr. Gael. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. Have those bills ever been referred to this com- mittee or been discussed with this committee at all ? The Chairman. I do not remember the Beauleau claim or Mr. Henderson's claim ; they seem new to me. Mr. Henderson. That bill is pending before this committee ; there has been an unfavorable report made by the department on the bill, for the reason, as I understand, that it includes others besides these Mille Lac chiefs, and Mr. Meritt is here and can say on behalf of the department whether there is any objection to the Mille Lac chiefs My sole excuse for presenting the item The Chairman. If you will pardon me a minute, I think we might wait until we have a little larger attendance on the committee. Then the Senators will determine whether or not they want to open the bill, and if they do we will consider your bill and that of Mrs. Beauleau. We will first determine whether it will be done later, whether the bill will be opened to claims or not. Mr. Secretary, wliat matters have we left on the bill that are still to be determined? Mr. Meritt. Wisconsin, on page 54. Support and Civilization of Portions of Wisconsin Band or Pottawatomie Indians Residing in Wisconsin and Michigan. The Chairman. What item is it, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. It is beginning with line 25 on page 54 : For the support and civilization of those portions of the Wisconsin Band of Pottawatomie Indians residing in the States of Wisconsin and Michigan, and to aid said Indians in establishing homes on the lands purchased for them under the provisions of the act of Congress approved June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and thirteen, $75,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, said sum to be reimbursed to the United States out of the appropriation, when made, of the principal due as the proportionate share of said Indians in annuities and moneys of the Pottawatomie Tribe in which they have not shared as set forth in House Document Numbered Eight hundred and thirty (Sixtieth Congress, INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 283 first session), and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to expend the said sum in the clearing of land and the purchase of houses, building material, seed, animals, machinei-y, tools, implements, and other equipment and supplies necessary to enable said Indians to become self-supporting. Senator Curtis. How much money have they drawn on that docu- ment, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. They have drawn $425,000, and, there is a balance due them of $22,399. Senator Curtis. Yet you want to give them $75,000. Mr. Meritt. No, sir. We only want to give them $22,399, and make the moneys heretofore appropriated available after the 1st of July, and we have asked that the $75,000 be reduced to $22,399. Senator Curtis. Give me the amount which has been paid them. Mr. Meritt. Congress has appropriated $426,000, as shown by the hearings, beginning with page 389. Senator Curtis. What is the balance due? Mr. Meritt. $22,399. Senator Curtis. Now, you want to give them that, do you? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; and we want a proviso after the words ''self-supporting" in line 15, page 55, to read as follows: Provided, That the unexpended balance of the appropriation for the fiscal year nineteen hundred and seventeen, for said Indians, approximating $28,256.13, and the unexpended balance of the appropriation for the flsca.1 year nineteen hundred and eighteen, approximating $55,057,37, are hereby reappropriated and made available until expended: Provided, however. That the above-mentioned sums shall be used only for the purposes set forth in section twenty-five of the act approved May eighteenth, nineteen hundred and sixteen (Thirty-ninth Statutes at Large, pages one hundred and fifty-six and one hundred and fifty- seven), and section twenty-four of the act approved March second, nineteen hundred and seventeen (Thirty-ninth Statutes at Large, page nine hundred and ninety-one). Senator Curtis. How much unexpended balance have you? Mr. Meritt. About $80,000 that we have not yet expended. That fund, of course, belongs to the Indians, and it should be made avail- able until expended, but because of war conditions we have not been able to buy lands and build homes for them. Senator Curtis. This will clean up their account, will it? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent.' I move the item be approved for $22,399 as amended. Mr. Meritt. With the proviso added. Senator Nugent. Yes. (The item was agreed to.) Mil. Meritt. That completes Wisconsin. The next item is Chip- pewa Indians in Minnesota, on page 26. Senator Curtis. The item we had up when we adjourned was at the bottom of page 26. Minnesota. red lake indian forest, sale oe timber. The Chairman. Not to exceed $50,000. That is the item Senator Nelson appeared before us with reference to and he wishes that to be $10,000? 284 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILX,, 1920. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; and in compliance with the suggestion of Senator Curtis, that this item be reduced to $15,000 and the proceeds from the sale of lumber from the operation of the Government saw- mill be made available, I have drafted an item to take the place of the item in the bill which reads as follows : That not to exceed $15,000 of the funds derived from the sale of timber from the Red Lal^e Indian Forest, Minnesota, under authority of the act of May- eighteenth, nineteen hundred and sixteen (Thirty-ninth Statutes at Large, page one hundred and thirty-seven), may be expended by the Secretary of the Inte- rior in payment of the expenses authorized by said act : Provided, That here- after all proceeds of sales of timber products manufactured at the Bed Lake Agency sawmill, or so much thereof as may be necessary, shall be available for expenses of logging, booming, towdng, and manufacturing timber at said mill. It will be agreeable to the office for the item I have read to take the place of the item in the bill. Senator Curtis. Do you not think that we should put that in, con- ditioned upon the approval of Senator Nelson, calling his attention to it and see if we can not prevent a fight on it ? Senator Nugent. I think that is advisable. Senator Curtis. Adopt it tentatively and hand him a copy of it. I talked to him a few minutes day before yesterday. I do "not know how he would feel about it, but I think some arrangement might be made that would be satisfactory. Senator Nugent. And more particularly is that true if, as stated here, there are seventy-odd million feet of pine timber on another tract of land. Mr. Merttt. If the Senator objects to $15,000, of course, rather than not have the appropriation at all, we would be glad to have the $10,000 for this work of supervising the sale of that timber. The Chairman. In other words, rather than lose the entire appro- priation, you would have to content yourself with $10,000 ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; but it is absolutely necessary that we have authority to -use the proceeds from the sale of the lumber of that sawmill to furnish homes for Indians on the resei'vation. Senator Nugent. I move that the amendment prepared by the assistant commissioner to the item referred to be tentatively agreed to. (The item was tentatively agreed to.) The Chairman. Contingent upon Senator Nelson's approval, that will be adopted. construction and repair of roads on the CHIPPEWA RESERVATION. The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw froiu the Treasury of the United States the sum of $20,000 of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, and to expend or pay the same, under fueh rules and regulations as he may prescribe, for the construction and repair of roads on the Chippewa and ceded Indian reservations in the State of Minne- sota. The ("hippewii Indians have requested that nn appropriation so on tlH> hill for roads in the Chippewa counti-y. We have also received reijupsts direct from Members in the House from Minnesota thac 1his. item go on the bill, and I think no objection will be made to that appropriation. The Chairman. Is there any objection? INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 28 Mr. Carl. Would that apply to that road from Sugar Point to th Federal dam? Yon remember I spoke to you the othei- day; it i just on the edge of the reservation, Init that is the onlv outlet fo the bugar Point Indians. Mr. Meeitt. That is in the ceded part of the Chippewa Resei vation ? Mr. Cael. I think it is on the outside. There was a descriptio drawn by a surveyor that was handed to you. Mr. Meeitt. If (his item is adopted we will be able to construe roads not only on the Chippewa reservations, but on the cede lands in the Chippewa country. Mr. Gael. This is not ceded land; it is just on the edge of th ceded portion and if you can make it available to that particula piece there willbe no objection from our delegation. We would lik to have these Indians have a road so they can market their products- their sugar. Mr. Meeitt. We are in favor of them having a road and I thin this language sufficiently broad to cover it. The Chairman. Is there any objection to the item of $20,000 t be withdrawn from the funds of the Indians for building the roads (The item was agreed to.) RECONSTEUCTION OF HOMES, CHIPPEWA INDIANS. Mr. Meeitt. There was an item adopted a few days ago appropri ating $60,000 for the construction of homes out of tribal funds o Chippewa Indians for these Indians whose homes were destroyed b; fire in the recent forest fire. Objection has been made to the iter because it is not reimbursable, and because the India,ns who receiv the benefit of the appropriation will not be required to pay it ou of their pro rata share of the tribal funds. I wanted to bring tha matter to the attention of the committee inasmuch as objection hai been made to it. I have drafted an item to meet that objection am if it is the wish of the committee that it be made reimbursalDl out of the pro rata share of each Indian, this proviso would enabl the department to do that. The item reads : The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to withdra\ from the Treasury of the United States the sum of $60,000, or so much thereo as may be necessary, of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of Mlnn€ sota, and to expend or pay the same, under such rules and regulations as h may prescribe, for the erection or purchase of homes for Chippewa Indians li said State whose homes were destroyed by forest fires during the year nineteei hundred and eighteen, to be immediately available and to remain availabl until expended : Provided, That said sum may be used for material and labo for the construction of such houses, for the purchase of portable houses, or ti pay for the erection of houses under contract, said contract to be executed o approved by the superintendent, who shall also inspect and approve all wor] done or houses erected or purchased hereunder before making payment there for : Provided further. That not to exceed $1,000 may be used for the purchase or construction of any one home : And provided further. That not to excee( five per centum of the amount expended may be used for admlnlstrativi purposes. And the amendment reads : And provided further. That all expenditures hereunder shall be reimbursec : to the tribe by the individuals bepefited from any moneys accruing to them oi account of per capita payments or otherwise. 286 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. I am submitting this to the committee for such action as may be deemed proper, inasmuch as one faction of the Chippewa Indians object to this appropriation being made a gratuity appropriation from the Chippewa funds without the reimbursement feature. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee ? Senator Nugent. I move the adoption of the item as amended. The Chairman. With the proviso providing for the reimburse- ment? Senator Nugent. Yes. The Chairman. Is there any further discussion of it? Senator La Follette. That is, reimbursement out of the allottee's share of the funds? * Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator La Follette. So that the tribe is reimbursed for this out of funds taken from the tribal funds ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Did you wish to say a word on this matter, Mr. Arten? , STATEMENT OF JOHN ARTEN. Mr. Arten. I am from that reservation where the people were burned out. As I understand Mr. Meritt 's amendment it is this, that this is to be refunded to the Indians of the tribe. Mr. Meritt. Under this 'proposed amendment the Indians who receive benefit from the tribal funds in the erection of their homes will be required to reimburse the tribe from their pro rata share of the tribal funds when it is paid to the Indians. Mr. Aeten. These Indians have built their homes and worked hard,, and this fire came along and destroyed them. I think the white people also were burned out in that country, and the State and throughout the United States people donated to the white people to rebuild their homes and give them everything they wanted, and helped them so they could get along and put up their homes prac- tically in the same way, without reimbursement in any way to the State or anything else. I do not think it is right that these people should be made to pay if the Indians are willing. On November 29 their executive committee agreed that $100,000 be appropriated from tribal funds to rebuild these homes. Since that we have reduced the bill to $60,000, and it is only an average of about $6 from members of the tribe, and I do not think there- is any man among the tribes that has a human heart in him who would object to donating this money to the tribe without the reimbursement. It will be pretty hard. The idea is to put the Indian on the same footing after he rebuilds this home, the same footing as the private share of the Indians themselves that have not been burned oUt. If you people think it is best to adopt the bill as amended, that is up to the com- mittee. I do not think it is just to the Indians. Senator La Follette. You think it would be satisfactory to the tribe as a whole to make these contributions out of the tribal fund ? Mr, Arten. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. I will state to the Senator my recollection is there was quite a strenuous protest made to that proposition when the matter was last before the committee. The protest was based upon INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 287 the proposition that the lands allotted to these Indians, burned out, contained a very large acreage of very valuable timber, and that these Indians who received the benefit of that timber, sold considerable portions of it, and that that money went to themselves ; after their homes were destroyed and certain of this timber was destroyed, the tribe felt, many of the members of which were not in receipt of any of the sums of money derived by these particular Indians, that they should not be called upon to pay for the reconstruction of those houses, and it was with that idea in mind that I made this motion. Senator Ctjetis. Yet it is true that the so-called tribal council or executive committee did vote in favor of the appropriation. The objection came from the Eed Lake Band, which is not working with the tribal council or the executive committee, as I understand. Senator La Foulette. Is there anybody here that represents that element ? Senator Curtis. Mr. Coffey was one. STATEMENT OF JAMES COFFEY. Mr. Coffey. Gentlemen, I represent all the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, and the statement of the Senator just made contains a part of the facts in the matter. Since coming to the city I have re- ceived a letter from one of the Indians whose home was burned in Minnesota at that forest fire, and he says to me that after I had outlined my views in the matter of securing legislation to enable these people to use their portion of the tribal funds for reconstructing their homes, he said, all of the Indians there were in perfect accord with that idea, and they would like the appropriation in that way as early as it could be had, for the simple reason that this man was one of those who had acquired large benefits from the sale of pine on their allotment in excess of what a great many of the other Indians had received. ■ This $60,000, 1 held the view, first, when I first saw the appropria- tion — ^I held the view that that $60,000 would be divided pro rata among the fire sufferers, which, if it was done, would exceed the entire value of their holdings before they were burned out. So 1 thought it would not be hardly right to build them a great deal better homes than they had before. Their homes, as I understand it, run in value — ^they cost all the way from $50 up to $.500 or $600 each, but an equal distribution of the $60,000 would have given each one of them about $1,400 for the reconstruction of their homes. A large majority of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota hold the view that if they were given their pro rata share of the tribal funds there would not be sufficient, and they, themselves, I understand, would be "satisfied with that. ' Senator La Follette. Is it a fact, if you know, that the fire suf- ferers were all of t-hem allottees who had had valuable timber hold- ings, and had realized large sums of money from the sale of the tim- ber on their allotments ? Mr. Coffey. There were more or less in that way. Some did not acquire so great a benefit as others. Senator La Follette. I suppose it would be variable, but can you sav as to all of them, that they had pretty valuable timber allotments. Mr. Coffey. I couldn't say as to every one of them, but it is so with the majority of them. 288 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Aetex. Mr. Coifey is here to oppose this appropriation, and he represents himself as representing the Chippewas of Minnesota. He does not represent those people; they do not give him any au- thorization. He is opposing this bill on the ground, he says, that these houses were worth $50 on up to $500. Those houses were worth more money than that. You can not build any home for $50. That is false. Most of these people that he is talking about lumber-, ing, most of these people have allotted on the land that has been cut over. These are young people, practically, that were burned out and moved out to other allotments. These were people that received the benefits as Mr. Coffey did, in 1887 ; he was one of them that received great benefits. These people are allotted on cut-over land. Senator Nugent. There is no timber for them to sell ? Mr. Arten. No ; he is in one of the allotments Senator Nugent. Are you entirely satisfied that you az-e correct in that statement? Mr. Arten. Yes; of course, there might be some of the older people that did not receive, but the majority of these people were allotted on cut-over land. I was allotted on cut-over land, and I am 39 years old. Senator Nugent. The people for whose benefit you desire this ap- propriation were residing upon lands that had been cut over at the time the allotment was made to them ? Mr. Arten. Yes, sir ; most of them. It was taken-down land, even the biggest majority of it. Senator Nugent. Well, that puts a different complexion on the matter. Mr. Coffey. That statement is not true, because you will find it in the act itself — ■ — -The Chairman. You say it is not true. Was that land allotted cut-over land? Mr. Coffey. I do not know about his i3 articular case, but the ' statement in general is not true, because I will tell you why.- You will find it in the act itself that the Indians shall first be allotted the land before anybody else is allowed to go on it, and that was done. So the statement he has made with respect to that is not true, and I can draw from him, himself, when he states that I got the benefits from timber on my allotment that that is not true, because he knows that I took my allotment there in the open brush field right there adjoining the citjr of Klo-ka, where there was about half a dozen pine trees there out in the open brush. Isn't tha't true, Mr. Arten? Say yes or no. Mr. Arten. The reason you took this allotment, Mr. Coffey, it was close by the city. Mr. Coffey. Isn't that true? Mr. Arten. You had the privilege of taking otlier pineland or this Senator Nugent. You stated that Mr. Coffey was one of the men to whom you referred as having accepted allotment containing large quantities of valuable pineland, the timber off of which he dis- posed of. Mr. Arten. But my statement would be this : He had the privilege of taking either this land or pineland INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 289 Senator Nugent. You stated he did take the timberland and dis- posed of his timber. Did he do that or did he not ? Mr. Aeten. He disposed of his holdings. ■ Senator Nugent. Did he dispose of his holdings that consisted of timber ? Mr. Aeten. There was quite a bit of timber on his land. I was only a boy when this allotment was made. Senator Nugent. You referred to 1887. Mr. Aeten. Yes; that was when the allotment was made. Senator Nugent. That is 20 odd years ago and you say you are 29 now? Mr. Aeten. I am 39. Senator Nugent. As a matter of fact, you do not know much about this, do you, as far as Mr. Coifey is concerned? Mr. Arten. Not exactly on that, but he took this land Mr. Coefet. He knows himself Senator Nugent. Just wait a moment. Do you know anything about this, Mr. Commissioner, or' does your agent here know any- thing about it? Mr. Meeitt. My impression is, Senator, that we gave the Indians allotments with timber on it. We do not have the timber, as a gen- eral rule, cut off and then allot the lands to the Indians. Senator Cuetis. The act of 1889 itself said they could not be dis- turbed if they were on allotments. It says, in case where allotment has heretofore been made to any Indian, of the land upon said reser- vation, he shall not be deprived thereof or disturbed therein except by his individual consent separately and previously given. Senator Nugent. The point I am trying to arrive at is whether or not the people who were burned out were allotted cut-over land. If they were, that is entirely a different proposition that would be presented to my mind, if they were allotted lands containing valua- ble tracts of timber which they disposed of and pocketed the pro- ceeds. You people can not agree and we can not arrive at the facts by listening to both of A'our delegations. We can not learn any more than we know now. Mr. Meeitt. My impression is these Indians Avere allotted lands as well as timber. Senator Nugent. Is it your view that there was timber on this land, standing timber on this land at the time the allotment was made to these Indians who were burned out? " Mr. Meritt. These allotments were made a great many years ago, before much timber was cut in the Chippewa country. Senator Nugent. To the individuals who were burned out? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; and it is my impression they were allotted the land and timber. Of course, there is some land in the Chippewa country that has very little timber, whereas other allotments there have valuable timber, and without going through our records there, I could not tell you off hand the value of the timber on those allot- ments. Senator Nugent. What length of time would it take to secure that information definitely ? Mr. Meritt. It would take probably a week to go out to the super- intendent and get this information. 106080—19 19 290 INDIAN APPSOPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator La Follette. Mr. Chairman, I fall into confusion here all the while about this Chippewa matter, and I wonder if it is not better to leave out of this bill everything pertaining to these con- troverted questions on the Chippewa property, and let us make some, provision by a subcommittee or otherwise for taking some testimony there and getting the facts and settling this thing according to the rights of the parties. We are — at least I am — in a confusion as to what we are doing, whether we are not making a mistake here in legislating upon these Chippewa interests at all. I do not know but ■perhaps other members of the committee who have been able to be in closer attendance here than I have do know. Senator Curtis. I think two or three of us made the same sugges» tion the other day. Senator La Follette, that this matter ought to be settled by some other measure than the appropriation bill. Senator La Follett. I just have the impression that some things are going into this bill and some things have heretofore gone into appropriation bills that have legislated away, in so far as we could the rights of certain Indians there to property. Senator Nugetstt. As far as I am concerned, Senator, I am in entire accord with the views expressed by you with respect to many mat- ters which you mentioned. We had the same difficulty here last year concerning certain of these matters. I have been here practically every meeting that has been held by this committee, and I am in a worse state of confusion than you are. I am thoroughly convinced in my own jnind that we can never arrive at the milk in the cocoanut until we have some independent testimony, and for that reason I will withdraw the motion I made a few moments ago. The Chairman. What do you think about a subcommittee, Sena- tors, say three, to go up in the Chippewa country and take such testi- mony as they see fit? Senator Nugent. Some such action should be taken. Senator La Follette. I should like, if such committee were going up there to make an investigation, I would like to have them stop at some reservations in Wisconsin and look some matters oyer there that I think the committee should be informed about. Mr. Coffey. The Chippewa Indians whom I represent are in accord with the amendment as put in by the department. Mr. Carl. The Chippewa Indians which I represent in Minnesota are in entire accord with the suggestion made by the chair here to have a subcommittee go up there and investigate the Chipj^ewa mat- ters. We have been here a number of years asking the same things. We want you gentlemen to know what the actual conditions are over there. You do not take our word for it. I think the suggestion made by the other party is The Chairman. We will pass the Chipj)ewa matter. The commit- tee has already agreed to an appropriation of $50,000, which you want to reconsider, do you, or not. Senator La Follette ? Senator La Follette. Yes, sir; unless it is going to jeopardize the bill — if there is a lot of timber there. The Chairman. This is to rebuild homes? Senator La Follette. I did not understand that. Senator Curtis. This is with reference to building homes burned last year, and the proposition to charge them to tribal funds, and INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 291 the- council are very willing it shall be taken out of tribal funds. The amendment this morning is suggested, that the money be expended and charged to each individual in whose behalf it is expended, and when that Indian gets his pro rata share of it the amount advanced to him to rebuild his home should be deducted from his pro rata share. Senator McNaey. Before passing this subject, item 25 on page 26, some discussion, was had with respect to this item a few days ago, perhaps in your absence. Saturday, before adjourning, I made a motion that the sum be reduced from $60,000 to $10,000. The Chairman. That was agreed to this morning tentatively at $15,000, with the understanding that if Senator Nelson objected it would be reduced to $10,000. Senator Walsh. We voted on that a few days ago, did we not ? Senator Curtis. No ; that was left open. Senator Walsh. I recall very distinctly that Senator McNary voted against the appropriation. Senator McNart. I voted against $50,000 and for $10,000. Senator Walsh. It was certainly, according to the way I remem- ber, passed over and we did not vote on the final proposition; we voted on the amendment made to reduce. That stands at $15,000. The Chairman. Yes; unless Senator Nelson objects, and then it will be reduced to $10,000. That is the way the Chair has instructed. Senator Nelson's view is to be ascertained. Senator Walsh. Eeally, the thing, as a business proposition, is left, then, in a rather uncertain state. Senator McNary's idea is that these logs should be sold. The Chairman. Read the whole amendment. Senator Walsh. I think his idea was that if the appropriation was to be no greater than $10,000, which would not permit the working out of this very considerable amount of logs that were there, some 2,000,000 feet of logs, that they would be disposed of. Senator McNaet. $10,000 to go to the operation of the mill. Senator Curtis. This was the amendment which was agreed to : That not to exceed $10,000 of the funds derived from the sale of timber from the Red Lake Indian Forest, Minn., under authority of the act of May 18, 1916 (39 Stat. L., p. 137), may be expended by the Secretary of the Interior in pay- ment of the expenses authorized by said act : Provided, That hereafter all pro- ceeds of sales of timber products manufactured at the Red I^ake Agency saw- mill, or so much thereof as may be necessary, shall be available for expenses of logging, booming, towing, and manufacturing timber at said mill. Senator Curtis. That is tentatively agreed to, with the under- jStanding that it is to be shown to Senator Nelson as soon as that can be done, and, if he objects, to bring it back for action. The Chairman. Senator Curtis, will you undertake the responsi- bility of seeing Senator Nelson ? Senator Curtis. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. What I would like to draw the attention of the committee to is this : According to the testimony of the forester, they have 2,000,000 feet of logs there. ■ Those logs will be deteriorating unless they can be either disposed of, sold to somebody, or worked up. Mr. Meritt. This will give us authority to handle that matter. ' Senator Kendrick. He is to use the fund that comes from the ope- iration of the mill? 292 INDIAN APPROPBIATION Blli,, 1920. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Kendeick. Whereas at the present time the fund goes mto the United States Treasury. Mr. Meritt. That is true; but we can not use that fund without specific authority from , Congress. Senator Walsh. Yes; but the trouble about that is that you can only use the money as you sell the lumber. Mr. Meritt. We will make that mill absolutely self-supporting, and if this language can go in the bill, we will not be handicapped in handling that lumber and will be limited to the expenditure of $15,000 in supervising that sale of 80,000,000 feet of titaiber. Senator Walsh. I would not like to see 2,000,000 feet of log? simply go to waste. Mr. Meritt. We will handle that satisfactorily to the Indians and Congress under that proposed legislation. The Chairman. What is the next item, Mr. Meritt? continuation or the agencies in the CHIPPEWA COUNTRY. Mr. Meritt. The next item under Minnesota, Mr. Chairman, is the appropriation for the continuation of the agencies in the Chippewa country. It was included in the Indian bill as reported to the House in accordance with our estimates, but when the bill was discussed on the floor of the House this item was stricken from the bill. The Chairman. What were the reasons given for that ? Mr. Meritt. There were only about 50 Members of the House present when the bill was discussed, and one branch of the Chippewa factions were opposing this apj)ropriation and they made certain representktions to Members of the House, and when it was brought upon the floor of the House, with only 50 Members present, a nia- jority voted the item from the bill. Senator La Follette. On what ground ? Could you state briefly ? Mr. Meritt. On the ground that certain Indians in the Chippewa countrj'' are protesting against the use of their funds for administra- tive purposes. Congress, a few years ago, adopted a policy where Indian tribes had large funds to their credit of taking the tribal funds to pay the administrative expenses rather than to make a gratuity appropriation out of the Treasury of the United States for that purpose. Congress has pursued that policy for a number of years, and to-day certain tribes that have ample funds are paying the expenses of their agencies. For example, .the Osages are paying their expenses; the Kiowas pay all their expenses; the Crows pay all of their expenses; and the Chippewa Indians have $6,000,000 in the Treasury of the United States and they are paying part of their ex- penses of maintaining schools and agencies. Senator Curtis. A little band of Potawatomies in , Kansas only have a few thousand dollars in the Treasury and pay their expenses. Mr. Meritt. The item reads as follows : The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the Treasury of the United States, at his discretion, the sum of $160,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the principal sum on deposit to the credit of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota, arising under section 7 of the act of January 14, 1889, entitled "An act for the relief and civilization of INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 29i the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota," and to use the same for th( purpose of promoting civilization and self-support among the said Indians ii manner and for purposes provided for in said act. I would like to state Senator Nelson came before the committet a few days ago and said that he would not be satisfied if this amount exceeded $100,000. In deference to his wishes, we will asi that our estimates be cut to $100,000 and we will reduce our agents there and administrative force in the Chippewa country and keej it within the appropriation. The Chairman. He wanted a proviso attached there that you should maintain not to exceed four agencies. Mr. Meritt. Three agencies. We have recently combined three agencies into one and we now have only four agencies in the Chip- pewa country. The Chairman. Will that meet his objection? Mr. Meritt. If the committee wishes, we will not interpose any objection to a proviso going on the bill, provided that hereafter not to exceed three regular Indian agencies shall be maintained in the Chippewa country. Senator Ctjrtis. May I ask you, Mr. Meritt, have you not car- ried out the provisions of the act of 1889 and reduced these Indians to two reservations and allotted to the Red Lake ? I understand the Eed Lake have not yet been allotted and the act of 1889 prox^ided it should be allotted. Nothing has been done. The act of 1889 — under that act these Indians should be gathered on two reservations, the White Earth and the Eed Lake. Mr. Meritt. Subsequent provisions modified the act of 1889; the act of 1889 did require allotments, but there was subsequent specific legislation applicable to the Red Lake Reservation. Senator Curtis. Deferring the enactment?, Mr. Meritt. Changing the act of 1889 so far as it applied to the Eed Lake Indians. There was an act passed in 1904, I think, by Congress which authorized allotments on the Red Lake Reservation, but without directing that these allotments be made within any specified time. The Eed Lake Indians have protested ag-ainst allot- ments on their reservation for two reasons: First, that there is a large amount of land on that reservation that needs to be drained and is of no value for agricultural purposes until this drainage work is done. It will cost in the neighborhood of $300,000 to do this work. Second, they do not wish the timber lands allotted, be- cause that would be an unequal distribution of the property of that reservation, for the reason that the lands are not drained, have but little timber, and they are of not very great value for agricultural purposes, whereas the timberlands in a large number of cases would be worth anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 per allotment. The Red Lake Indians have shown a spirit of fairness and they want to equalize, as much as possible, the property, so that each Indian will get an equal share, and they have asked for legislation authorizing the selling of this timber to go into the funds of the Red Lake In- dians and later to use part of these funds for the purpose of drain- ing the land. After the timber is cut off and the lands are drained then they want allotments. 294 IWDIAS" APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. We are working along the lines in accordance with the wishes of the Eed Lake Indians, and we do not believe that we have violated the letter or the spirit of the act of Congress. Senator La Follette. The question with me is, whether some things have not been put into these appropriation bills heretofore that we ought not to have put in there, and sometimes at the instance of the department in which we have been perpetuating a lot of agencies up there which ought to have been wiped out. Mr. Meritt. We had a thorough investigation made in the Chip- pewa country during the last year by experienced investigators, and that report is found in the House hearings, beginning on page 43t. It sets out in detail the conditions in the Chippewa country. The Chairman. Let me ask you who made the report? Mr. Meeitt. Inspectors Linnen and Ellis. The Chairman. I know Mr. Linnen and have the highest respect and regard for his views on this question. Is his report in there? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; and Mr. Ellis's report is there also; he is an experienced employee. The Chairman. They still do not say you are to retairi all of these agencies ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; in compliance with their, recommendations we have consolidated three of the agencies and have reduced the agencies to four instead of six. The Chairman. You had seven? Mr. Meritt. We had six, and have consolidated three of the agen- cies, which leaves four. The Chairman. Acting upon their report, you have proceeded to consolidate the six into three agencies ? Mr. Meritt. We have consolidated them into four. The Chairman. You have consolidated them into four, thereby eliminating two ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. You still think you can reduce- them from four to three? Mr. Meritt. We, felt, from an administrative standpoint, it would be better to have four agencies in the Chippewa country, but in deference to the wishes of Senator Nelson we are willing that the proviso shall go on this item reducing the number to three. The Chairman. Your appropriation last year was $185,000, was it not? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; the appropriation last year was $175,000. The appropriation prior to that was $185,000. This year we volun- tarily reduced our estimates to $160,000, but in view of the fact that Senator Nelson will not consent to an appropriation to exceed $100,000, we Avill ask that the appropriation be made $100,000. Senator Walsh. That is what astonishes me, Mr. Meritt. You come here and ask for an appropriation of $160,000 out of the funds of these Indians for administrative purposes, and then Senator Nel- son comes here and says that he will not consent to an appropriation of more than $100,000, and then you say, " We will get along with $100,000." Now, what really necessitous work which prompted you to recommend an appropriation of $160,000 are you going to leave out? What are you going to omit to do that you think ought to be INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 295 done ? I assume that before you made your estimates you considered every economy that you could possibly think of in order to reduce expenses and maintain efficiency. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. And yet, when Senator Nelson comes along and he will not consent to more than $100,000, it strikes me that you will be compelled to omit to do some things which you feel ought to be done. Now, what are those things? Mr. Meritt. Well, we will be compelled to omit to do things that we have been doing, and which have been helpful to these Indians. For example, during the winter months we have been issuing rations and clothing to a great many of the Chippewa Indians, and we have been supervising the affairs of these Indians, furnishing them with farmers and doctors and maintaining hospitals among them, but in- asmuch as Senator Nelson will not permit an appropriation to exceed $100,000, we must of necessity cut our garment according to the cloth. We will simply have to eliminate a good deal of the good work for these Indians in order to bring the appropriation within the $100,000. Senator Walsh. You will have to let some of the Indians go with- out the necessary food and clothing and the necessary medical at- tention if refused this appropriation? Mr. Meritt. We will have to cut down on all of those things and also reduce the number of employees in the Chippewa country. One- third of the Government employees there are Indians. Senator Walsh. Wliat employees are you going to let go ? Mr. Meritt. That is a matter, of course, that we will have to de- termine after the appropriations are made, and we will have to go over the situation very carefully. Senator Walsh. I can very readily understand if you have a lot of employees there that you do not need, this is a very wise thing ; but assuming you did not employ any more than you actually needed, and did not do any more work for the Indians than humanity re- quired that you should do, I do not think that we ought to reduce this appropriation without some further information from Senator Nelson. Senator Curtis. Let me ask you a question right there. Isn't the allotment of each of these Indians and their share of tribal funds sufficient to support them without your resorting to the issuing of rations ? Mr. Meritt. If we can get the legislation we have suggested, we will pro rate these tribal funds except retaining sufficient to maintain ■the schools. That will give each Indian on the reservation approxi- niately $300, and that ought to enable those Indians to get along for the next year or two at least without receiving food and clothing from the Government. I might also say that out of this appropria- tion of $160,000 we have been spending $60,000 for schools and only about $60,000 or $60,000 of the appropriation is paid to employees, one-third of whom are Indians, and those employees supervise the affairs of the 41,000 Indians. I have placed in the record a state- ment showing the list of employees in the Chippewa country, and you will note from that statement that they receive very low salaries. We are not extravagant with salaries in that country. If we can get the legislation authorizing us to pro rate these funds, the Chip- 296 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL, 1920. pewa Indians will not suffer during the next few years and we can get along with this appropriation, but we will not be able to furnish the Indians food and clothing like we have been doing here- tofore. Senator Walsh. But you think that the distribution which you contemplate making will take care of that so the Indians will not starve ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; we will be satisfied with the item, as I hava suggested, making the appropriation $100,000. The Chaiejiax. Is there any further discussion of the item going in at $100,000 and reducing to three agencies ? » Mr. Gael. We were proriiised to be heard a half an hour on this question, and we have not had a chance yet. The Chaiemax. I am not going to sit here and listen to you talk for half an hour. Senator Xugext. There was no promise. I was in the chair at the time the matter arose, and I merely asked him how much time he desired. The Chaieman. I would say you may take 20 minutes on this question. What do you want to say in addition to that? Mr. Gael. I do not want to say anything now. Senator La Follette. This is an item under consideration, and if he has something to say on this item, if he has not been heard, I think we should hear him. Senator Walsh. I want to hear the gentleman. Let us say five minutes. Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Ghairman, there are three factions of Ghippewas in this room, and if this faction is heard the other factions ought to be heard also, Mr. Gael. Mr. Ghairman, we oppose this appropriation. That is an apjDropriation taking out of our funds, and Mr. Meritt has stated here that we misrepresented the facts to the House and said they cut it out over there, and cut the whole appropriation out when it came to the floftr. As a matter of fact, we took those figures and statements from their report, and the men over there were satisfied it was not neces- sary to make any appropriation at all and they cut it out. Mr. Meeitt. Eight there Mr. Gael. I wish you would not interrupt me. Senator La Foixette. Let him have his five minutes. Mr. Gael. They are laying great stress upon school matters over there. Our school funds are plenty to take care of the school situa- tion, and we do not want to be supervised any more over there; there is no supervision needed over there. They come around and take the number of Indians they claim to siipport over there, but it will only amount to 1,000 out of 12,000 that they claim to sup- port. Most of those Indians have money to their credit. So I do not think this item ought to go in there. I would like to be heard a little longer on this, and I could give you The Ghaieman. You have four minutes left yet. . Go ahead. Mr. Gael. Since you people make the suggestion that you would like to have a Senate committee go over there and make an investi- gation INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 297 The Chairman. You do not want to take this money out of tribal funds to pay for agencies ? Mr. Carl. No, sir. The Chairman. Would you like to have Congress make a gratuity appropriation for the purpose? Mr. Carl. It doesn't make any difference. If they want to they may, but we are 'not asking for any appropriation for maintenance or supervision — ^that is, civil-service employees up there. Government employees, and we do not need them. The Chairman. Go ahead ; you have three minutes left. Mr. Carl. I am through. The Chairman. Have you said all you wish to say? Mr. Carl. On that subject; yes, sir. The Chairman. If I understand you, you speak for a faction that is opposed to taking any money out of tribal funds for this appro- priation, and you are indifferent as to whether Congress grants a gratuity or not. Is that your attitude? Mr. Carl. If Congress wants to make an appropriation out of the other funds to maintain a lot of employees up there, it would not make any difference, so far as our objections are concerned, but the supervision and domination will always be by these employees, which is the same. STATEMENT OF EDWARD L. EOGEES. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Rogers represents the same faction as Mr. John ■Carl. Senator Walsh. I think we have heard from them. Mr. Rogers. I want to take up the remainder of the five minutes. The Chairman. All right, you may do so. Mr. Rogers. If you will turn to page 170 of the House hearings, you will find this statement, with reference to this $160,000 : This Is the only fund available for general agency use as distinct from school ■purposes; that is, for the support and civilization of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota residing on the reservations named, and is heavily drawn upon each year for the necessary expenses of administration: salaries and wages; sub- sistence, clothing, medical supplies, etc., as fully set forth in the above analysis of expenditures for the fiscal year 1918. With the increased cost of practically all eommodities, it is believed that the amount asked for will be absolutely necessary to provide for the ordinary and usual activities of the service having to do with the support and civilization of the Indians sharing in this fund. That is the justification for this $160,000 appropriation as given hy Mr. Meritt. Senator Curtis. That school is in addition to the schools provided in the act of 1889, section 7. Mr. Rogers. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. These are public schools ? Mr. Rogers. The treaty funds. Senator Curtis. What I mean, they have tribal schools but they are noted here as free schools, not public schools, and this school they maintain out of this fund is an agency school, is it not ; out of the $160,000? I Mr. Rogers. No ; their statement is that they use this entirely for administrative purposes. That is their justification. ifcSenator Curtis. Mr. Meritt just said $60,000 of that was for school purposes. 298 INDIAN APPKOPEIATIOSr BILL, 1920. Mr. EoGERS. He makes that statement, but he did not make that statement over there in the House. You turn again to page 405, down to where Mr. Snyder asks the question : Mr. Sntdee. Well, I notice that there are specific appropriations in the bill for schools in Minnesota, and I would like to know what— something about what this $160,000 is spent for, in addition to the appropriations that are made regularly for the schools. Mr. Meeitt. We have specific appropriations in the Indian bill for Indian schools in Minnesota, but those schools are what are known as nonreservatlon schools. This appropriation of $160,000 that we are asking is for the purpose of administering the affairs of 11,000 Indians on the several reservations in Minnesota. For example, the Fond du Lac Reservation, the Grand Portage Reservation, the Leech Lake Reservation, the Nett Lake Reservation, the Red Lake Reservation, and the White Earth Reservation. There are more than 11,000 Indians on those reservations. Mr. Snydee. And it is used for the purpose of keeping up the organization, then? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; the administration of their affairs. Now, that is the statement he made over in the House, and we took it for granted that every dollar of this $160,000 he is asking for goes for administering the affairs of these 11,000 Indians, and not one cent of it goeg for schools. We are taking his statement, as I pointed out to you in these hearings. Now, he makes the statement here that $60,000 of this is to be used for schools. Now, we are up in the air; I do not know whether we are going to get our part of this appropriation for schools or whether it is all for general agency purposes. Senator McNart. Ig that for any particular school on the agency or schools generally ? Mr. EoGEES. For schools generally. We maintain that he uses the entire appropriation of $160,000 for administrative purposes and none for schools, because we have a school fund which he can use without any authority from Congresg. He uses that — ^he says that they are needed for the maintenance of free schools among the Chip- pewas. Now, last year that fund amounted to approximately $75,000. Then there was a treaty fund of $4,000, making in all about $80,000, which he used for schools. That is in addition to this $160,000. This $160,000 has no reference to schools whatever, but this $80,000 that goes for the support of the schools, and that is what is used. We maintain that this appropriation of $160,000 is not for our support for the administration of our affairs. We maintain that a great majority of us are really the same as any other citizens in Minnesota. We are not looked upon as Indians up there; we have taken our place in .the little town matters, in the villages, and in the counties and State. We are looked upon as other citizens there. I admit there are some incompetent Indians up there; that it is not divided as to mixed or full bloods. Some full bloods are just as competent as a lot of mixed bloods. We main- tain this large expenditure of funds is really unnecessary. In the general appropriation act you spent some $273,000 in addition to this $160,000 item. Part of that $273,000 you will find on page 408; you will see the figures there of the amount they spent out of tribal funds on page 410 at the bottom ; the total amount expended out of tribal funds last year was $503,000. That includes the $175,000 appropriation. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 299 Senator AValsh. Your contention is the Chippewa Indians, the whole 12,000, ought to be entirely emancipated ? Mr! EoGEES. Not the entire 12,000. I should judge about 9,000 should. Senator Ctjetis. You have over a thousand Indians on that reser- vation that are supported and receive rations on the White Earth and Eed Lake? Mr. Rogers. Are you looking at that page there ? Senator Curtis. No ; but I got it from the report of the depart- ment on the Eed Lake and White Earth together. I thing you have over 600 on the White Earth Eeservation. Mr. EoGEES. I was noticing the list the night before, and I noticed in the back some of these Indians received rations, and they algo received pensions from the United States Government. They are veterans of the Civil War, or their widows, and they are not to be classed as paupers, but still they are enumerated in this report. Senator Curtis. I should think if they are drawing pensions as Civil War veterans or widows, they would not need the rations. STATEMENT OF PETER GRAVES. Mr. Graves. I am talking for the Eed Lake Band of Chippewas. If the department believes that this appropriation should be made, it should be made. So far as the Eed Lake Indians are concerned, they want their agencies maintained there just as heretofore. Of course, so far as I am individually concerned, I would not need one cent of that appropriation, nor the attorney that has just spoken here — Edward L. Eogers — ^he wouldn't need a cent; I am not talk- ing for myself, I am talking for the Indians of the Eed Lake Band. If there is any needed appropriation to be made, they want it made. These men that are talking against this appropriation are men that individually do not need any assistance from the Government. Senator Nugent. I gathered from your testimony day before ye.s- terday you are employed by the bureau ? Mr. Graves. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. How long have you been employed? Mr. Graves. Since 1891. Senator Nugent. What salary do you receive? Mr. Gra\'es. I receive $75. Senator Nugent. A month? Mr. Graves. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. And are you found board and lodging? Mr. Gra^'es. Yes, sir— no, sir. Senator McNary. , Do you represent a faction ? Mr. Graves. No; I represent the Eed Lake Band. I am a Eed Lake Indian. „ , ^ . g Senator McNaey. Do you work for the Government < Mr. Gravis. Yes, sir; but I am only expressing the wishes of the Red Lake Indians. . . ^ x- i. Senator Nugent. Did you receive any instructions when you came lere from the Eed Lake Band? Mr. Graves. Yes, sir. i . ■, ■, i x * '"Senator Nugent. You are a regularly elected delegate to come ^here? 300 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BUA., 1920. Mr. Graves. Yes, sir. Senator McNaet. Was this item discussed at the meeting at which you were elected to represent these people ? Mr. Graves. Resolution No. 5 of the Red Lake proceedings of the council will show that they want the Government to maintain them, to protect them from these unscrupulous persons, you know, that want the Government to remove all restrictions. They are afraid of their own people ; that is what they are afraid of, and they want the Government to protect them. Senator McNart. I am speaking of this item of $160,000 for ad- ministrative purposes. Was that item in the resolution? Mr. Graves. No. In resolution No. 5 it says, and that would covet- this : Resolved, That the Go\ei'nment of the United States through the Indian Service should continue its system of civilizing and caring for the Ked Lake ■ 15and of Chippewa Indians by means of schools, hospitals, and agencies, in accordance with the stipulations of the existing acts of Congress. Senator Feenald. You are one of the administrators up there? Mr. Graves. I am just a clerk. It doesn't make any difference that I am in the employ of the Government ; that has nothing to do with me. If I was under selfish motives here I would be with these other factions that want the restrictions removed from the Indians so I could help to prey on the residue of the Indians. They think I am honest, and they look to me, and they know I will represent them here and tell you just what their wishes are. That is why I am here — not because I am a Government employee or anything like that. They know I will express their wishes. The Chairman. Are you a full-blood Red Lake Indian? Mr. Graves. No, sir ; not a full blood. Senator La Follette. I would like to ask Mr. Rogers a question. There has been so much said about the representations of these people and their designs. Will you state whether you are district attorney of Cass County ? Mr. Rogers. Yes, sir ; I am the present county attorney. Senator La Follette. You call them county attorneys there. How many terms have you been elected as county attorney of that county? Mr. Rogers. This is the third time. Senator La Follette. This is your third term ? Mr. Rogers. Yes, sir. STATEMENT OF GEOEGE WALTERS, OF WHITE EARTH RESERVA- TION (THROUGH INTERPRETER BENJAMIN CASWELL). Mr. Walters. My friends, I want to say a few words to you in regard to these schools. These Indians who are located on the White Earth Reservation want the schools to be continued. These mixed bloods who have been educated have completed their education; they do not want the schools; but the Indian is not so satisfied, so they want the schools to be continued. We Indians do not want the well-organized methods of education to be disturbed before it is completed for which it was intended. We are the Indians (The Interpreter : I think he refers to full bloods) ; we are the Indians, INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920. 301 these schools were established for our own benefit. We have that view, gentlemen, to make these schools go on to the point to which they were intended to go. Do not destroy these schools before they reach the mission for which they were established. I do not know, it may be ; we have been misrepresented here to j'ou every year. Our ancestors — our leading men, who made these treaties in connection with the representatives of your United States Government — what they agreed to, we look to that to be continued. My friends, if you remove the agent from our midst, we will be destroyed by our own people, the jnixed bloods. This thing may not be true not only to the Chippewa Indians of White Earth; it may be true as to other reservations. We are here; we have not delegated anybody to speak for us; we come here to speak for our- selves and not to speak through anybody else. My friends, I have stated the facts and the true conditions at the White Earth Agency; we want you to continue the schools at White Earth. We have a great many children who need education, and we are the old people ; we are there to see that these children go to school. Those who want the discontinuance of the schools, we are not with them. The Chairman. What do you do? Mr. Walters. I have no special business or trade. The Chairman. Have you a family? Mr. Walters. Two. The Chairman. Two children ? Mr. Walters. No ; myself and wife. The Chairman. You have no children ? Mr. Walters. No children. Mr, Arten. That is what we are trying to do for the Indians — is to have the Indian Office live up to the agreements. Now, the In- dians have provided in the act of 1889 that one-fourth should go for school purposes ; that is, $75,000 ; there is a public fund of $108,000 for school purposes in the Chippewa country. He says we do not want these schools taken off. We are not taking off the schools ; we do not want this great big field of employees squandering the In- dians' money. He says we want the agreement lived up to. ,That is what we want. Senator Curtis. You have over 700 children on your reservation without school to-day. You are a rich tribe, and why should not the funds of the tribe, that fund which has not been distributed, be used in educating those Indians that have no schools? You have over 700 on the reservation without schools? t Mr. Arten. The commissioner's report shows 784 Indians in school last year. , , -^1^11 Senator Curtis. I am talking about those without schools. Mr Arten. No; that is the school report, 784. Senator Curtis. What I claim is, you have over 700 children on lat reservation without schooling. Mr. Arten. I do not believe it. . ^ -, Senator Curtis. The report shows it. I do not know anything about it except what the report shows. ^ Mr Arten. The public schools are all over the country. The ^ond du Lac Indians do not want these schools and they practically 302 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. abandoned the schools on the Fond du Lac reservation. They send their children to the public schools. That is why they recom- mended it. Senator La Follette. What is your business ? Mr. Aeten. I am a locomotive engineer ; I ran an engine for the Great Northern Railroad for 11 years. Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, Mr. John Arten is an engineer, a capable Indian, and does not need the supervision of the depart- ment, and we have insisted, since he has been in Washington, that he have his patent in fee. There are other members here that belong to the other faction ; we would like to have them heard. Senator Nugent. Before you take your seat I would like to have one matter cleared up. Senator Curtis suggested there were a very considerable number of Indians on the reservation who were not at- tending schools. Did I understand you to say that the Indians who were not attending the schools on the reservation were attending the public schools — the white schools in town ? Mr. AetejST. There are piiblic schools all over there; if they are not going to school it is not because there are not any schools for the children ; it is not because of school facilities. Senator Nugent. Do you mean the children referred to by Sena- tor Curtis as not attending schools on the reservation but are at- tending schools in neighboring towns? Mr. Aeten. So far as the reservation is concerned, throughout that country — I live in the State of Wisconsin. So far as my reservation is concerned, what I laiow of iny own reservation, they are all going to the public schools. Of course, these other schools, according to the commissioner's report,^ — 1 did not see the article Senator Curtis referred to in the other school report that they had 784 children last year. That is what causes — of course, these children are not going to school ; I do not know anything about them. These other people come from different reservations and they can answer that. I will answer for the Fond du Lac Reservation. Senator Cuetis. The report I read from is, the Indians were not attending any schools whatever. Senator Nugent. I was trying to arrive at what he was trying to convey Senator Cuetis. There are some others attending public schools, but there are some who are not attending any schools. STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN' CASWELL, WHITE EARTH EESERVA- TION. Mr. Caswell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to say just a few words. I belong to the White Earth delegation. You may ask me what occupation I have. When I was 8 years old I was a Government- school student, and I proceeded to go to school until I was 26 years old, and whatever I received it is all from the Government, as far as my education goes. After I got through going to school I turned around to help the Government to educate my people. I followed f^n-t f^r 17 vears. Since then I have been in various occupations. The Clapp Act, I think, has really changed my occupation, where the Indians were INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 303 defrauded of their land ; and speaking the English language and the Chippewa language equally well, I was asked to help the Department of Justice in prosecuting "these claims, and then afterwards I was transferred to the probate division and helped in settling those cases, and that is what I am working at now ; that is, I am paid by the day. When I leave to go home my pay stops. That is my position now. I want to say with reference to this strenuous objection to the appropriations in these bills that those settlements under the Clapp Act are about being concluded. They are very difficult cases to settle, and I think, unless the administrative forces handle them, as they are very important cases, they will not be completely settled. There are a great many of these men on the other side, a number of whom are interested, and that is why we strenuously object to the administration on the reservation. I think the Government should not be crippled, at least this year, in the settlement of these cases, as they are very important. There is about $250,000 already that has been recovered and many thousand acres of land — I do not think that is an overstatement; I think my statement is conservative — that would have to be taken away from the Indians had not the administrative forces gone into the field, the men conducting the affairs on the reservation, especially while these settlements were pending. Senator McNary. Mr. Meritt, let me ask you a question. This amendment, or this proposed legislation, was kept without the bill when presented in the House, was it not? ': Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; it was included in our estimates, and our estimates were incorporated in the bill when it was reported to the House. Senator Walsh. And it went out on the floor of the House? Mr. Meeitt. It went out on the floor of the House. The mixed- blood delegation went from committee room to committee room in the House Office Building and made false statements regarding the condition of the Chippewa country and the use of this money. Mr. Gael. Mr. Chairman, I want to say that we did not make any false statements. Mr. Meritt should not say that we made false statements when we did not. Mr. Meeitt. As a result of these misrepresentations there was con- siderable misinformation brought out in the debate on the floor of the House with regard to this item. Senator Walsh. Mr. Meritt, I think that statement ought to be withdrawn with respect to misrepresentations, or the representations being false. You really do not know about that and who made the representations, do you? „ , tt j -t. Mr. Meeitt. I will state that one Member of the House o± Kepre- sentatives told me that false representations had been made by those men, and that he had subsequently found that they were false and that he would not follow their recommendations heregiter. Senator McISTaey. This is what I want to know : The Indians are discussing this from the general standpoint as favorable to education and edueltional facilities on the reservation. We all agree with that. In Tour testimony before the House subcommittee at the hearings it appears that you then made the statement that it was for adminis- trative rather than for educational purposes. 304 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Mebitt. It is what is Imown as the administrative appropria- tion, and we used $60,000 of that appropriation for educational pur- poses, and we will use less than $60,000 of that appropriation to pay employees in the performance of the administrative duties. Senator McNaey. There are two statements with respect to this matter, one in your annual report and one made before the House committee. You say: Mr. Meritt. We have specific appropriations in the Indian bill for Indian schools in Minnesota, hut those schools are what are known as nonreservation schools. This appropriation of $160,000 that we are asking is for the purpose of administering the affairs of 11,000 Indians on the several reservations in Minnesota. For example, the Fond du Lac Reservation, the Grand Portage Reservation, the Leech Lake Reservation, the Nett Lake Reservation, the R«d Lake Reservation, and the White Earth Reservation.' There are more than 11,000 Indians on those reservations. Mr. Snyuee. And it is used for the purpose of keeping up the organization, then? Mr. Mekitt. Yes, sir ; the administration of their affairs. Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Snyder asked me a question with respect to this specific appropriation. Senator Walsh. You must have an account as to how this appro- priation was spent last year, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. We have an account, and we have submitted a report to Congress showing a detailed statement regarding the expenditure of this money, and that statement appears in the House hearings. Senator Walsh. Will you indicate where the evidence is to be found as to what it is used for ? Mr. Meritt. This report is submitted by Secretary Lane 'to the Speaker of the House of Kepresentatives and will be found beginning with page 408 of the House hearings. We give a detailed statement as to the use of this fund. Every dollar of the Chippewa fund is accounted for and is expended in accordance with law. Senator McNary. Where is that item of $175,000; where is that recorded ? Mr. Meritt. The items combined— $111,021, $54,956, and $19,383, make a total of $175,000. That will be found on page 408. Senator McNary. I get that, but where is that item ? Mr. Meritt. You will notice that we spent $3,021.38 for salaries and wages; we spent $2,866.69 for traveling expenses; $4,596.59 for transportation and supplies; $517.28 for telegraph and telephone service; $50,592.64 for subsistence and clothing; $10,049.33 for for- age; $18,293.99 for fuel and power and light sei^dce; $4,777.40 for medicalj educational, stationery, and office supplies; $6,931.82 for equipment and miscellaneous material — largelj^ agencies and schools ; $1,279.62, repair and rent of buildings, and $8,115.15 miscellaneous. Below is a statement showing the expenditure of other moneys. Only $54,956.20 was spent for salaries from that appropriation. We spent over $60,000 of that appropriation for schools. Senator Walsh. But where is that in the report? Mr. Meritt. You will find the total statement regarding the schools on page 6 of the supplemental hearings. We spent for the school at Fond du Lac, $1,100.84; Leech Lake School, $8,925.66; Eed Lake School. $9,269; Vermillion Lake School, $11,199.24; White Earth School, $25,159.06; Mission School (Red Lake), $6,187.53, making a total for school purposes of $61,842.03. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 305 Senator McNary. Where do you get that item? Mr. Meritt. It is found on page 64 of the supplemental hearings in a detailed statement of the expenditures. Senator Curtis. The supplemental hearings had in the House? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; the supplemental hearings had in the House. Our reports show that we have, in Minnesota, in the Indian schools, page 174 of the report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, a capacity of 1,423 ; total entroUment, 1,431 ; average enrollment, 1,171 ; average attendance, 929. Senator Curtis. What page of the hearing is that ? Mr. Meritt. Page 66 of the supplemental hearings. Senator McNary. You report having spent $50,000^ — nearly $51,000 — for subsistence and clothing of children, Mr. Meritt. Mr. Meritt. That is not only for children, but it is for the old people as well. Senator McNart. A few minutes ago in answer to Senator Walsh's question, in opposition to Senator Nelson, you agreed to decrease an item from $165,000 to $100,000, which looks to me as if it covers this very situation. Mr. Meritt. But I explained to the committee at that time that we are also asking for authority to prorate the tribal funds, and those funds will be deposited to the credit of each noncompetent- Indian. Those funds can be used to prevent suffering. Senator McNart. Then, out of that $175,000, $58,000, nearly $59,000, went into salaries? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. We give a list of salaries of all the em- ployees in the Chippewa country. Senator McNart. It took $59,000 to administer a $175,000 appro- priation ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; not at all. That is not the case at all. Senator McNart. Well, I am asking you about that. Mr. Meritt. No, sir; that is not true. It took $50,000 to admin- ister the affairs of 11,000 Indians living on these different Indian .reservations possessing property worth several million dollars. When figured on a percentage basis it would show a very low percentage on the property taken care of for supervision and overhead. From a ' business standpoint we can make a very good showing on that line. Senator McNart. If you are denied this appropriation, do you mean to say you would not control, governmentally, the tribal funds with which to administer the reservation and protect the rights of the Indians ? Mr. Meritt. If we were denied this appropriation we would ask for a gratuity appropriation out of the Treasury of the United States, but it' has been the policy of the Congress heretofore with respect to Indians who have large funds to their credit, to require those Indians to pay out of those funds money for administrative purposes. There is $6,000,000 in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of these Indians. Senator Curtis. Why is it not the best plan to agree to this amendment Senator Nugent. Pardon me. I gathered the impression, Mr. Meritt, from what has been said here, that there was a specific ap- propriation in this bill in certain sums of money to be paid over 106080—19 r20 306 INDIAKT APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. under the terms of a treaty, amounting in the aggregate to approxi- mately to $80,000 per annum for school purposes, in addition to the $60,000 expended out of this general appropriation. Is that correct? Mr. Meritt. On page 66 of the supplemental hearings you will find an analysis of the expenditure for school purposes for the Chip- pewa Indians for 1918, as follows : Chippewa In Minnesota fund (civilization and self-support), 1918, $61,842.03; interest on Chippewa in Minnesota fund, $86,440.12; relief of distressed and prevention, etc., of disease among Indians, 1918, $295.61 ; purchase and trans- portation of Indian supplies, 1918, $1,981.47; Indian school and agency build- ing, 1918, $18,287.62. Senator Fernaijj. What is that $295.61? _ • Mr. Meeitt. That is an appropriation for the relief of distress, in addition to the use of their tribal funds. Purchase and trans- portation of Indian supplies, $1,981.47, that is a gratuity appropria- tion. Indian school and agency building, $18,287.62, that is a gra- tuity appropriation. Indian school support, 1918, $5,527.54; addi- tional support, Indian school, 1918, $2,956.31; increase of compensa- tion, Indian Service, 1918, $210.94; Indian moneys, promotion of labor, Indians, $1,559.89 ; Indian moneys, promotion of labor, school, $114.58; miscellaneous receipts, class 4, school. $349.44; support of -Chippewas of the Mississippi, Minnesota, 1918, $3,979.56 ; total, $183,- 840.44. Now, those are Chippewa funds as well as gratuity appropriations and were used in that country. Senator Nugent. How much of the entire appropriation last year was expended for school purposes — I am speaking now of the gen- eral appropriation. Mr. Meeitt. Out of this general appropriation? Senator Nugent. Yes. Mr. Meeitt. Approximately $60,000. Senator Nugent. Was that in addition to the sums that have been enumerated here, aggregating $80,000, or approximately that? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; the other funds were used for educational purposes. We have authority under the Nelson Act to use a cer- tain portion of the funds and interest for educational purposes, and this appropriation supplements those funds. Senator Nugent. Do you mean to be understood that the state- ments made here are correct, that there were approximately $140,000 expended last year for school purposes? Mr. Meeitt. That is approximately correct. Senator Nugent. How many children are there on that reserva- tion, that is in the Chippewa country — approximately; and how many schools? Mr. Meeitt. I gave those figures a few moments ago, showing the number of children attending school. These are boarding schools! as well as some day schools. Our school capacity is 1,428, total en- rollment is 1431, and the average enrollment l,l7l, average attend- ance 929. Senator Nugent. That is the total number of children? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; that is the total number of children attend-' ing schools. I have no figures showing the total number of Chip- pewa Indian children but there are 11,000 Chippewa Indians and, probably 5,000 of these are within the school age. ■ INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 307 . Senator Walsh. And only 1,000 attending school? Mr. Meritt. Attending the Government schools. There are a large number of them attending day schools, but on some of these reservations we have day schools. On the Fond du Lac Reservation we have day-school facilities, but on a number of reservations they have no public schools, and it is necessary for the Government to pro- vide educational facilities for those schools. Senator La Follette. By day schools do you mean public schools, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. We have both public schools and Government day schools. Senator Nugent. And the cost to the Government and the In- dians was approximately $140,000 last year to furnish school facili- ties for approximately 1,000 children. Senator Walsh. Senator, that is very moderate. We have allowed $250 apiece. Senator Nugent. I understand, but I wanted to get the record straight. • Mr. Meritt. These are approximately correct figures. The Chairman. Does the other side desire to be heard now in favor of this appropriation? Mr. Meritt, have you any Indians who want to be heard in favor of it? Mr. LuFKiNS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to say a word. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM LUFKINS. The Chairman. Do you belong to Mr. Coffey's faction? Mr. LuFKiNS. Yes, sir. The Chairman. You belong to his faction, you say ? . . . Mr. LuFKiNS. Yes, sir. Now, we will imagine that this [indicat- ing on map] is the White Earth Reservation The Chairman. You mean the yellow spots are the White Earth: Eeservation ? Mr. LuFKiNS. No, sir; this is the whole State map of Minnesota. Now, the White Earth Eeservation where the schools are is where this line runs along here [indicating] ; the school runs along there, Uke the public schools. All these schools are in a farming country. These are not occupied by the Indians; they -are occupied by the white people who have bought this land from the White Earth In- dians, and there are schools there. In fact, there are three towns— Mahnomen, Ogama, and Calloway — white towns, with no Indians there. The schools on the White Earth Reservation are 4 miles east of that and up along Twin Lakes, out in the woods. There are certain schools for Indians. All the Indians live in this part [indicating on map]. This is all timberland up here, where there are pine forests. This is all pine, and the Indians are living there without their home allotments. They have to crowd into the other ones who have allot- ments. We need the school there, and we need that school up in these . woods". I guess Mr. Carl, at Menominee, does not need. any. There is a big public school there [indicating]. In fact, it is the county seat. They do not need this appropriation. Mr. Rodgers lives up at Leech Lake, but these Indians that I am talking about — as far as 308 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION' BILL, 1920. I am concerned ; I live outside and do not need this appropriation — need this school. I am speaking of these Indians here on this side that need this appropriation, the pine-forest Indians, out in the woods and different localities where these Indians live, they need the schools ; they have to have these schools. Supposing we did not have these schools, these beautiful buildings would be all without windows in a year, and then, after it was too late, we would want an appropriation of more to maintain these schools afterwards. There would be loss of the buildings and a loss of the grounds, and it would ruin the whole thing, what the Govern- ment had tried out before. That is all I have to say. Senator McNaey. Are you employed by the Indian Bureau ? Mr. LuFKiNS. No, sir. Senator McNaet. Have you ever been? Mr. LuFKiNS. No, sir; I have been interpreter a long time ago. I worked on the reservation in the iron range up on the Cauyana Eange taking samples. They take the ore and sell it to the labora- tory, that is, a certain grade of ore. My work is for the mining company. The Chairman. Is there any other member of the tribe who desires to be heard on either side of the question ? STATEMENT OF JOHN W. CARL. Mr. Cabl. Mr. Lufkins is wrong about the number of Indians liv- ing on this side. There are Indians living in every township. Of course, there are Indians like myself up there, and there are real white, people in that tribe. -I want that statement to be made. Mr. Lufkins. I wish you would ask Mr. Carl's occupation. Senator Cuetis. Mr. Chairman, I do not know how the other members of the committee feel, but, in my judgment', the best way to settle this matter is to insert an appropriation of $100,000 — ^the commissioner says he can get along with it — and add a proviso ap- pointing a subcommittee of three to go up there and look, into this situation in order to see if we can not settle this Chippewa situation. It is very complicated, and is growing worse every year, and I think something ought to h& done. The Chaieman. That is a very good suggestion. Suppose we pass this item for the moment and go into executive session with regard to the suggestion you make. Senator Curtis. Without objection, that course will be taken. CLAIMS OF CEETAIN INDIANS. The Chairman. I will state to the committee that Mrs. Beauleau and a number of other Indians have appeared here and asked to have certain claims inserted in the bill. It is for the department to determine whether it is desired to put claims in the Indian appro- priation bill or not. The Chair can not determine that question. I will have inserted in the record a letter from Mr. J. H. Hinton, dated February 17, 1919. INDIAlSr APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 30 J (The letter referred to is here printed in full, as follows:) Washington, D. C, February 17, 191i). To the Chairman and other Members of Subcommittee of the Senate Committei on Indian Affairs. GentlemeIn : At pages 465 to 468 and also 441, 519, 521, 522, and 532 of the hearings on the Indian appropriation bill, December 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, and 11, 1918, there is incorporated as a part of said hearings a report dated Minne- apolis, Minn., October 8, 1918, addressed to Hon. Oato Sells, Commissioner ol Indian Affairs, purporting to be a report on the general conditions upon all the Ohippewa reservations in Minnesota, including a specific report on the White Earth Reservation, that State. In said report there Is shown a willful, malicious, unjust assault upon my character, competency, and efficiency as superintendent of the White Earth Agency, having acted as such superintendent at the particular and earnest solicitation of the Indian Office since April 1, 1916, to the date of my resigna- tion, February 8, 1919. Tour special attention is invited to the statements made at the pages men- tioned above, containing sweeping general charges which I can not let pass unchallenged and in which I can in no way acquiesce, but, on the contrary, deny. I therefore request, as a matter of right and justice and fair dealing, that I be given equal opportunity not only to deny and answer before the Congress, through its committees, the charges which in general and particular are deroga- tory and false, without ground or basis of truth or fact, and which were designed and published without notice to me or opportunity to be heard, thus depriving me of the rights guaranteed to every citizen under the law and the Constitution. Entering general and specific denial of the charges, I beg to submit for the record the following explanation of my administration as superintendent of certain acts or things referred to specifically in said report, which was written hy Inspr. E. B. Linnen. At page 465 of said hearings Inspector Linnen refers to my work as a detail while "special Indian agent, with the officers of the Department of Justice, to investigate White Earth land frauds, and by his flimsy insinuation and general innuendo endeavors to detract from my work, which was and has always been, so far as advised, satisfactory to both the Interior Department and the officers of the Department of Justice. The facts are misrepresented and the truth concerning that matter concealed. For the information of the committee, I wish to say that the Commissioner •of Indian Affairs on December 28, 1914, requested me to submit a report of the work performed by me since I was detailed to cooperate with the Department of Justice in connection with the White Earth land-fraud cases, and said that such report should be in sufficient detail as to enable the office to have an under- standing of the magnitude of the work, as well as the practical results. He also said that at the same time the office would like me to give rny view as to tile piobiible time which would be required for me to complete the assignment, stating the basis of my views in this respect. On Februi-ry 4, 1915, I submitted the report called for. This report, consist- ing of 44 typewritten pages, gives a full, complete, and detailed statement of the work performed by me for the Indian Office in connection with my labors with the Department of Justice on the White Earth land-fraud cases. This report is marked "A" and I offer it for the record, in order to show that Inspector E. B. Linnen is in error in his statement regarding my work as special Indian agent. It will be observed from this report that in addition to investi- gating fraudulent sales of lands upon the White Earth Reservation, I was re- quired to make many other investigations, special and otherwise, for the Indian Office and also to pass upon the question of the issuance of patent in fee to allottees entitled thereto and to submit recommendations regarding the same to the Indian Office. Under the Clapp amendment, so called, to the Indian appropriation act of June 21, 1906 (34 Stats., 325-353), adult mixed- bloods may alienate their allot- ments. Minors of the mixed bloods, and full-blood Indians, either minor or adult, may not alienate their allotments. The lands of full bloods are restricted and held in trust by the United States, as well as the allotments of minors. 310 INDIAK APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. There were 5,093 Indians on the White Earth' Keservation who held original allotments, and 3,068 of these Indians received a second or additional allotment, making an aggregate of 8,161 allotments to be disposed of under the law. It became necessary at once to make a classification of the allottees as to blood status, or degree of Indian blood, name, both Indian and English, age, sex, and allotment number, both original and additional, and by this classification to determine in whose favor suits should be instituted for the recovery of their lands. Experience and the investigation of illegal and void sales from April to October, 1910, in connection with a special attorney of the Department of Justice, showed me that the classification above indicated would enable us to eliminate from this vast number of allottees the adult mixed bloods, and deter- mine who had wrongfully and illegally sold their allotments or timber, or both. Accordingly, after the preparation of certain information and data, I went to the field and prepared the list marked " B " and offered for the record, showiag the degree of Indian blood and data above indicated, except the age of the allot- tees, which was easily obtained from the agency records. It was not given , in the list submitted herewith for the reason that it would have aided the speculators in the purchase of lands from minor allottees. On February 20, 1915, the Commissioner of Indian Affairs acknowledged the receipt of my report dated February 4, 1915, and said that he had read and carefully noted the same ; that it was gratifying to note the progress that had been made in this matter ; that he trusted that the work would be pushed to the utmost in order that fraudulent trafficking in restricted lands might be stopped, and that the lands which had been unlawfully sold and disposed of might be recovered for the Indian allottees at the earliest practicable date. The work was pushed vigorously and with the utmost endeavor by me until June 30, 1915, when I was made examiner of inheritance and assigned to duty with headquarters at Cloquet, Minn. At the time of this assignment there was unfinished about 300 cases or allotments for investigation on the White Earth Reservation, from which, or out of which, I expected to find some 20 or 25 unlawful sales. A list of these allotments was furnished the then Superintendent of the White Earth Reserva- tion for investigation and report to the Indian Office. I reported to that office with recommendations for suit every unlawful or illegal sale which I could find made by full-blood adu'.ts or by minors either of the full or mixed blood ; also by the heirs of deceased allottees of the classes indicated, and whenever my attention was brought to an unlawful sale an Investigation of the facts was made, and if justified the case was reported to the Indian Office with recommendation for suit. I made abstracts of title to lands which were wrongfully and unlawfully sold, as did also the agents of the Department of Justice when suits came to be filed. In this connection it seems proper, as showing the appreciation of the Depart- ment of Justice of my cooperation in the work in hand, to quote an excerpt copy of a letter addressed liy As.sistant Attorney Ernest Knaebel on December 10, 1912, to the Secretary of the Interior. Such copy follows : " For reasons of administrative character, as well as on the score of economy, it has been decided that this department will discontinue its office at Detroit, Minn. In connection with the Indian Service, that office has been made use of by the officials and employees of both departments for nearly three years past. Two rooms were leased by the Indian Bureau and three by us, the suite oif five connecting rooms practically forming one common office. During all this time the relations of the double service has been so harmonious as to comprise a common outfit united in a common work. It is to be regretted that this friendly and very effectual organization must, in a measure, be broken up. But the work of this department has now so far progressed as to make advisable the change mentioned, which will be brought about by consolidating the Depart- ment of Justice's portion of its Detroit office with our offices in the Federal building at Minneapolis. As from the point of view of those In charge of our work, that of the Indian Service has not diminished but rather has increased in both volume and importance. We are glad to vacate the rooms leased by us ih favor of that service at the close of this calendar year, and to do all that properly can be done to aid' your department in its praiseworthy efforts which are being conducted by Special Indian Agent John H. HInton. " It may be proper for us to express the high degree of confidence our attor- neys and employees engaged in that work have in the management of the Indian Bureau's service at Detroit. Without it it would seem almost Impossible INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 311 to finish this worlj and maintain the confidence of the Indians involved or In- terested. This office has come to be regarded by the Indians as their stronghold of defense against the people whose pernicious activities in defrauding them the Government forces have been contending, and it would be, Indeed, unfor- tunate if the office was in any manner curtailed or its activities to any extent abated. " Respectfully, " Ebnest Knaebel." So that both departments — the Interior and the Department of .Tustlce — were satisfied with the Indian agent's work as conducted and a high degree of con- fidence expressed in his management of the Indian Service at Detroit. The Government was ready for the taking of testimony In July, 1911, upon suits already filed, but the defense was not ready, and declined to proceed be- cause the court had ruled that the burden of proof as to the blood status of the Indian allottees was placed upon the defendants, as the pleadings had been drawn. Inspector Linnen says that during his recent investigation he found Several cases of full bloods who had been defrauded out of their lands whose cases had not been reported, and cites one instance, to wit, the name Pug-e-nay, or Mrs. Razor, and seeks to hold me responsible for that case. I had abstracted the title to the allotment to which he refers, and found nothing of record against it (Original 367, inherited by Pug-e-nay from her husband, John Hanks), and I advised the superintendent to that effect by letter dated May 22, 1915. She sold this land November 24, 1915. I was made examiner of inheritance and transferred to Cloquet, Minn., June 30, 1915, where I remained until I assumed charge as superintendent at White Earth April 1, 1916. The land was sold in my absence and during my assignment elsewhere. So that Inspector Linnen has misstated the facts in connection with this case and has sought to place me in a false light. It was impossible for me to know anything about this sale while I was special agent, because it had not been made, and the woman never brought the matter to my personal attention after I became superintendent ; but It appears that she took it up with the land clerk of the agency office, whereupon he prepared a letter for my signature recommending suit, through the Department of Jus- tice, September 10, 1918. No suit was recommended regarding her additional allotment 1153, either as to timber or land, by reason of the, issuance to her by the department of a patent in fee therefor, on July 5, 1908, whereby the Government parted with its title and was without right or authority to institute suit. The timber on this allotment, it appears, was sold to the Nichols-Chisohlm Lumber Co. for 14,000 and she sold the land to the Park Land Co. The question of attacking sales by Indians who had obtained patents in fee for their allotments was brought to the special attention of the attorney for the Department of Justice who had this litigation In hand, and he held that a suit could not be maintained. There was no way to institute a suit where the Gov- ernment had issued a patent in fee, unless such patent could be canceled and set aside by the court upon the ground of fraud. Since I have been superintendent, beginning April 1, 1916, I have reported for suit every case of unlawful sale brought to my attention. I have not been able to abstract, or to cause to be abstracted, the records of the three counties- Becker, Mahnomen, and Clearwater — to ascertain whether more full-blood In- dians or minors have sold their land, because of the pressure of other official duties, and it is not intended in any way to neglect any case where an unlawful sale of land has been made. Often mixed-blood Indians come to the office and complain that they have been cheated and defrauded out of their lands. They are advised that their remedy is in the courts of the State of Minnesota, because the higher courts of the United States have decided that the Government can not maintain a suit in such cases to recover the lands disposed of under the said Clapp Act, all restrictions as to sales or encumbrance having been removed by Congress upon lands held by adult mixed bloods. Inspector Linen says, at page 465 of the hearings of a subcommittee of the House, that I have no method or system in the agency office, in the transaction of its work, and in the answering of Important letters, and that I appear to have wholly neglected the boarding school. I deny these allegations and allege that there is method and system and order in the work of this agency. Each clerk Is assigned certain duties and certain work, and each one looks after his 312 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. or her work with care and diligence. There has been delay in some instances in correspondence because of the vast volume of work on hand and the inability of the force to dispose of it. There is needed at this agency a cash clerk or accountant. This would give the chief clerk an opportunity to devote his time to correspondence and to its special supervision. At page 533 he says that " it was our judgment that the White Earth agency office has now the most competent office force of any agency we have visited." The truth is the force Is competent and there is both method and system, but some delay in some cases owing to the volume of work on hand. The inspector charges that I neglected to give attention to the correspondence of United States Attorney Alfred Jaques, of St. Paul, Minn., in the case of Mrs. Mary Trantinella. The clerk in charge of this case advises me that this was a case of some difficulty and that it was disposed of as early as possible in connection wilji other important matters. There is a story connected with this complaint the animus of which will appear when it is recited. An auto owned and operated by one Henry Harty, a resident and county treasurer of Mahnomen County, Minn., was seized by the chief of Indian police, who is deputy special officer for the suppression of the liquor traffic on the Indian reservation and in the Indian country. This seizure was made at 1.30 a. m., September 24, 1916, on the road between Winger and Mahnomen, Minn. The automobile contained 10 quarts of whisky. This seizure occurred in the Indian country covered by the treaty of 1855. Mr. Harty had a preliminary hearing for the introduction of liquor into the Indian country, before the United States Commissioner, and was bound over to await the action of the Federal Grand Jury at Fergus Fail", Minn., November term, 1916. Mr. Harty's auto was stored at the Government agency until it was released by order of the United States marshal. Mr. Harty was never indicted although his case was brought to the special attention of United States Attorney Jaques or his assistant. One B. S. Fairbanks, a merchant of the village of White Earth, was caught on or about January 30, 1917, introducing liquor into the Indian country covered by said treaty. He had six pints of whisky and three quarts of brandy, and on that date one Isaac Fairbanks, a merchant of the village of Elbow I^ake, Minn., introduced in like manner 15 pints of whisky. Each had a pre- liminary hearing before the United States commis'^ ioner and was held for tie Federal Grand Jury at its nest term at Fergus Falls. Neither was indicted, although the testimony in each case was presented to the Assistant United States Attorney. On May 12, 1917, I reported the?^e cases to the Commissioner of Indian AfCairs, saying that the parties named were not indicted; that I did not know the motive behind the action ; that I did know, however, that the failure to indict them had a bad effect and influence upon the people within the reservation and the Indian country. I 'suggested that this matter be taken up with the Attorney General with a view to remedying the situation. For~full information I offer my report to the commissioner for the record and marked " C." In several places of his report Inspector Linnen charges that I neglected the boarding school, failed to give instructions as to repairs, to cause repairs to be made ; that I lacked diplomacy and that I had frequent occasions presented to me where the alleged feeling of certain mixed bloods might have been allayed, instancing the case of Eugene Warren, who wanted to be appointed disci- plinarian ; the Berry boys, who wanted to be appointed blacksmiths ; Joe Patter, who wished the position of night watch at the school ; and Julius H. Brown, who desired the place of forest guard, held by Mr. C. D. Wilkinson. I deny most positively and emphatically that I neglected the White Earth Boarding School or any of the day schools on the reservation. I visited each school frequently, and especially the boarding school, talked to the children, and kept in close touch with the teachers and the principal. The principal and I had frequent conferences. He understood what was re- quired and was endeavoring to carry out the instruction as to improving and remodeling the boys' dormitory and other premises. The trouble with the inspector is that he failed to discern the fact that we were engaged in remodeling and improving the boys' dormitory and making cer- tain other repairs, which, as I shall show, were needed long before I assumed charge, or he sought to purposely mislead the Indian Office, misrepresent the facts, and to conceal the truth and the real situation. INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 313 T, ^'iT,^*®'^^]'^®™^"*^' Statement he said I had been superintendent at White fm'L Pi '^'^ ^^^^^- ^^® ^^^t 's ^ assumed charge of the agency April 1, laib, at the particular and special request of Mr. Sells, the commissioner, and remained there till I resigned February 8, 1919, a period of 2 years, 10 months and 8 days. ' On April 14, 1916, just 14 days after I assumed charge, I addressed a letter to the commissioner in regard to the necessity of remodeling the boys' dormi- tory and the construction of a new boiler house, which had theretofore been brought to the attention of the Indian Office. I also asked that a central heat- ing plant be installed. 1 said in my letter that I had carefully read the report of Mr. Joseph Mar- shall, superintendent of construction and had examined the premises covered by his plans and specifications, and concurred in his suggestion? and recom- mendations as to the necessity and advisability of making these alterations and improvements. I repeated for convenient use and reference, the substance of Mr. Marshall's report to the efCect that the then closet system (the latrine or range system) was reprehensible in the extreme; that its location was a posi- tive menace to health; that the existing system had been condemned liv ex- perienced school boards, and abandoned almost entirely, even when located In segregated buildings; that in addition to their inherent defects, they were so located as to prevent proper ventilation ; that they could not be kept clean and were obnoxious and ofeensive to the sight, and that the basement should be converted into a recreation room or other uses which would be conducive to safety and health, etc. I made a personal investigation of the boys' dormitory, the basement, the boiler room, the closets, and was therefore prepared to corroborate the state- ments of the superintendent of construction. I made this report : First. That the closets in the boys' dormitory were insanitary and unsightly. Second. That they were a menace to health, from dampness and lack of ventilation and sunlight. Third. That they must have been disagreeable, disgusting, and were offen- sive to the 125 boys who occupied the building and used the closets. Fourth. That the building should be altered, remodeled, and improved before another school began. Fifth. That such action would add to the comfort, cleanliness, and happiness of the pupils occupying the building. Sixth. That the remodeling of the building would give additional desirable quarters for the school employees. Seventh. That there was a maximum danger from both fire and disease from the then condition of the boys' dormitory for which I would not be responsible. Eighth. That the construction of a new boiler house and central heating plant would diminish these dangers, save both labor and fuel, and add comfort to the pupils, teachers, and employees. I earnestly recommended : First. That the boys' dormitory be remodeled as above indicated and for the reasons set forth. Second. That a new boiler house be constructed, both improvements being made before the beginning of another school year. Third. That a central heating plant be installed. I offer for the record my said letter of April 14, 1916, marked " D," and also a second letter dated January 10, 1917, marked " E," again inviting attention to needed work and repairs. The work was begun in the summer of 1917. The war came on. There was a shortage of both material and labor and it was impossible to finish it, and especially the basement, until recently. And thus it is that Inspector Linnen mislead the office and purposely misrepresented the facts, either from perverse nature or with a deliberate intent to injure me and discredit my work with the Indian Office and the -department. I kept the repairs and improvements of the school plant clearly in view and progress was made as fast as material could be furnished and labor pro- cured. These repairs and improvements were needed long before I assumed charge of the agency, and I am in no way responsible for their need. Other improve- i ments have been made which I shall recite further on. I" Regarding the question of diplomacy, I have to say that I endeavored to har- linonize, conciliate, and pacify the factions and individuals of the reservation. 314 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. At the first council in May, 19l6, I said to both full and mixed bloods that I had a message from the commissioner, which was to the effect that the inaians were all of the same tribe and many of them relatives and that peace and har- mony should prevail. They were told that every allottee or annuitant on the rolls mixed or full blood, minors or adults, would be accorded the rights and privileges to which each was entitled under the law, the rules, and regulations of the department and my instructions: _ I adhered to that policy and accorded each Indian an audience or hearing upon any matter pending, "or in which he had an interest. I labored with a warm and devoted heart for the best interest of the In- dians trying to teach them thrift and economy, the dignity and necessity of labor, the payment of just debts, and the discharge of both moral and legal obligations. My purpose was to aid, help, and uplift the people by every proper means, and to that end I labored, ever labored. ♦ Regarding the case of Eugene Warren, who sought the position of discipli- narian, I have to say that Mr. Warren was farming about a mile from the school; that he was engaged in local politics, in the prosecution of claims fof the Indians against the Government ; that he was justice of the peace ; that he had a wife and two children. He insisted that he needed the place for the salary ; that he must have money and demanded that he be given the place. The success of the school, the good of the boys, the uplift of the children— their welfare, happiness, advancement, and improvement, mentally, morally, and physically, were not mentioned or discussed by him. in these circumstances I deemed it inadvisable to recommend his appoint- ment as disciplinarian, and instead the appointment of Joseph Summers, a young man of seven-eighths Indian blood was recommended. His character and reputation were good. He was energetic, faithful, and deeply interested in his work. I deemed it proper to have a young man for disciplinarian, so that he could be with the boys day and night, and look after their interests all the time, Which I did not think Mr. Warren could do with his many other afCairs and interests as above pointed out. As to the Berry boys, or one of them, for blacksmith, I have to say that neither was suitable nor desirable. John Berry refused to pay a board bill of himself and family in amount $76.48 while an employee at the Cross Lake School, Red Lake Reservation, Minn. The principal wrote me relative to the Indebtedness of John Berry to the Cross Lake School mess for board of him- self and family. The matter was laid before the Indian OflBce and authority granted to use his annuities and the annuities due himself and family to pay the bill, which was done. See authority for the record, marked " F." The other Berry boy, Christie, had trachoma. He was rejected by the local draft board for this reason, and directed to take regular treatment for a cure and call to the colors if necessary. He took one treatment and stopped. For this and others reasons I could not, for the good of the service, appoint him as blacksmith, but appointed another, practically a full blood, during the leave of the blacksrnith, who had enlisted and was absent 186. Upon the return of the soldier he was reestablished in his old position of blacksmith. Meantime, one George Berry, father of the Berry boys named above, visited the agency office with one W. H. Brumett, and said that "in the olden times when the Indians wanted anything they massacred a few whites and then the Government would give them what they asked for," but he said in this day of civilization they would not do that. I treated this statement as a joke, but whether it had any significance or purpose in their minds I do not know. The inspector refers to one Joe Potter, who wished to be night watchman, along.with the other cases. This Joe Potter had been night watch at the boarding school. When the Government recovered $300 for him on* a fraudulent land deal he resignecl as night watchman and proceeded to spend his money, and when his monej was, gone, he wanted his place back, and appealed to Inspector Linnen fp? aid.. Potter's services were not satisfactory as night watchman for several reasons. I had in view another and better man for the place. Inspector Linnen brought Potter into the agency office and asked that h( be appointed. I answered that I was not ready to pass upon the matter Potter wanted the position, but did not want to fill or discharge in full th( duties incumbent upon that employee. ' Insp. Linnen and Potter insisted and argued. I declined to decide the mattei then and there. Linnen grew impatient, if not angry, and by his manne; endeavored to overawe, browbeat, coerce, or terrify me into appointing Potter INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 315 Finally I did not regard his appointment for the best interests of the service, and advised the inspector accordingly. I advised Potter that I had decided not to appoint him and that my decision was final. Potter expected Linnen to land the job for him, as the correspondence between them shows Inspector Linnen asked me to dismiss or change Mr. O. B. Wilkinson, the forest guard, and appoint in his stead Julius H. Brown. I told the inspector that for the good of the service I could not do that. My letter to him marked " G " for the record, assigns good and sufficient reasons for not making the change. I also miirk for the record the letter of the inspector to me, " H," and the letter of Brown is marked " I " for the record. I said to Inspector Linnen, if he understood the circumstances as I under- stood them, he would not insist upon the change suggested. I advised him that the duties of my jurisdiction were very burdensome and responsible ; that I was under bond of $100,000 for the faithful performance of my duties and the care of the property; that in view of these facts I must have employees upon whose judgment and wisdom I could rely an(J in whose integrity I had implicit con- fidence ; that Mr. Wilkinson was a man of experience, sound judgment, and in- dustry ; that the duties he was called upon to discharge were various and numerous ; that he was a practical surveyor, a good road builder, and a bridge constructor; that he was fully competent to estimate land values — either hay or timber stumpage; that he was ever ready to discharge any duty Imposed upon him ; that there were yet some 400,000 feet of lumber at the dismantled sawmill to look after, by his wife and family, in his absence ; that Mr. Wilkin- son was under the civil service, as I understood it, and could not be removed without cause or charges preferred and sustained, and that I had no reasons or cause for dismissing or change. I also advised the inspector that I had employed a daughter of Julius H. Brown as assistant matron at the girls' dormitory, and that I would give him employment at $50 per month for two months. This I did. I also employed his son for the same time, at the same rate. Thus there were three of the Brown family in the service for two months and one still In the service. I further advised Inspector Linnen that the United States district court had entered decrees in some 150 cases of illegal and void sales of allotments on the White Earth Reservation, and that the allottees, being for the most part old and unable to cultivate their lands, the land would have to be appraised for sale, and that I must be permitted to select the employee to make the appraisals. I told the inspector that my record In all these land-fraud investi- gations and suits had been clear and without blemish, and that it was my pur- pose to keep it so and that feeling that way, I should be permitted to select the employees who were to assist me in carrying out this policy. Knowing the situation as I knew it, and feeling in regard to the matter as I felt, I expressed the hope that the views entertained by me would meet with his approval, but instead of approval and cooperation for the good of the Indians and the service he has sought to decry, defame, assault^ and Injure me in his report. His report is unfair, unjust, and derogatory in the extreme and without justification. Regarding Wheelock-Hudson matter of the State board of control, I have to say that some one misinformed and misled Mr. Hudson as to the facts. I knew nothing of the proposed visit of Mr. Hudson, director of the State board of con- trol to Mahnomen, Minn., for a conference with the county officials in regard to the situation among destitute Indians in Mahnomen until July 30, 1918, when I was so informed by B. J. Reck, probate judge of Mahnomen County. Judge Beck said that Mr. Hudson was expected there August 1. I told the judge that I would be pleased to meet Mr. Hudson and confer with him and the officials of Mahnomen County, but that I had been instructed by the Indian Office to visit the Mille Lac country to transact certain business there for the Government, and that I had already advised the parties in interest of my coming July 31 ; that I would counsel with the Indians in the afternoon of July 81, 1918 ; that for this reason it would be impossible for me to see Mr. Hudson on August 1 at Mahnomen, Minn. I told Judge Reck that if Mr. Hudson's visit would be postponed for a week or 10 days I would be very much pleased to confer with him and the officials referred to. Judge Reck left the hotel at once, and said ' that he would write Mr. Hudson at St. Paul and request him to postpone his visit. I left the hotel, feeling that the matter had been adjusted in a satis- factory way. It appears that Mr. Hudson came to Mahnomen; that he fell under the in- fluence of certain persons, and absorbed their views and sentiments, not very • wholesome and palatable to him. 316 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. I feel that if I could have met Mr. Hudson, that all matters could have been adjusted in a satisfactory manner, for I was, and had been, cooperating with the county officials of Mahnomen County and especially with Rev. Otto J. H. Brauer, agent of the child's welfare board. The agency had done, and was doing, all in its power under the rules and regulations to cooperate with the Mahnomen authorities and to give such relief as it could give to needy and dependent children. We gave rations to the needy when requested to do so and when they were on hand. I endeavored to use the little pittance of $130.60 to the credit of the minor children for their benefit under the rules governing and handling individual Indian money. On May 22, 1918, Rev. Brauer, above named, visited the agency and conferred with me about the Hilstad, Schoenborn, and Scott children. He represented that the Scott children of an Indi^in woman and a white man were without food in the house near Bijou, northern part of the reservation. I told him that if the facts were as stated I would take the children — three in number of school age — into the White Earth Boarding School for the remainder of the session and Iseep them during the summer. He brought the children to the school. They remained there until August 1, when they were permitted to go home with his consent. I paid Mr. Brauer $7.50 for bringing the children to the school. Mrs. Scott, the mother, visited the school several times while the children were there, and on one occasion denounced Rev. Brauer as a liar when he said that the Scott family was without food, claiming that they had plenty and that her husband could take care of his family. She declined to return her children to the boarding school this session, and placed them in the public school atl Bijou. She and others who have kept their children in school have been allowed $25 at various times for each child in school. People on the outside are not aware of the rules and regulations governing the expenditure of Indian funds, either tribal or individual. They think that because it is a Government agency all they have to do is to ask and receive. There was only one regulation in force regarding the payment of money, to minor children or parents when the prorata appropriation of the Chippewas was made by Congress May 18, 1916, and that was regulation 13, authorizing the disbursement, in the discretion of the superintendent, of $25 per month for four months in any one year, not to exceed $100 any year, for the benefit of children in regular attendance at school. There was no regulation to assist children under school age until I procured authority for such purpose April 24, 1918. I have aided and assisted the needy and. given relief wherever possible to do so and where there were funds or provisions for that purpose. I have responded to the requests of parents and legal guardians as to the pay- ment of money as rapidly as the business of the office would permit, and I have at no time and on no occasion sought a technicality to obstruct or delay. On the contrary, I have sought the authority of the Indian Office and justification for so doing. In five months, from April 1 to September 1, 1918, I paid out $225,000 from the accounts of individual Indians, and payments were subsequently made in larger sums. The Inspector refers to the case of a child, Willie Hilstad, and thinks that I should have paid the claim of Rev. Brauer merely upon his request. Rev. Brauer had this mixed-blood child, 2 years old, taken to the hospital at the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, without my knowledge or consent, and submitted a bill, not itemized as to year, month, or day of the month, amounting to $24.76. As soon as the pressure of my duties would permit, I returned this claim to Rev. Brauer and requested that he cause it to be itemized and sworn to and returned for further consideration. When it was returned, so modified and amended, I communicated with the hospital authorities for further facts and information. When the claim was ready I submitted it with the facts to the Indian Office, with request for authority to pay it from the funds $130.60 to the credit of the child. Authority was granted, and the claim was paid; Inspector Linnen thinks that I should have paid the claim of Rev. Brauer without investigation or authority from the office. If I had done so he would have found fault with that method and condemned it. I used the method in this case of the prudent business man and officer and one that prevails in the courts having charge of the estates of minors and their administration. To this legal and equitable procedure the arrogant, narrow, self-important and self- opinionated inspector (Linnen) objects. I deny that there was or is a lack ol INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 317 system at the White Earth Agency In ascertaining cases of destitution and ex- tending relief to them ; that there was any failure to aid and assist such cases and that the agency failed to cooperate with Rev. Brauer where it was possible, under the regulations, to do so. I deny such allegations, whether made by Kev. Brauer, Judge Reck, Mr. Hudson, or any other individual. This action upon the part of these persons, including certain officials of Mahnomen, smacks of a conspiracy to injure, and, if possible, break down the administration of Indian affairs at Washington and White Earth, and the inspector walked into the trap apparently with a willing step and heart. At the subagencies, to wit. Elbow Lake, Pine Point, Round Lake, Twin Lakes, and Beaulieu, the employees in charge have instructions to report cases of desti- tution and need, and to issue rations when on hand to those without funds or means of support, and especially to the old, the sick, the lame, the halt, the blind, and the helpless. Such people were aided, and where such had or have lunds at the agency the aid has been generous and prompt. An indigents' home is maintained constantly at Beaulieu and during the win- ter months the class of people indicated in and around Pine Point are cared for at the Pine School. This was at one time a boarding school and the buildings and facilities are ample for this purpose. The police had^nd have instructions to report cases of destitution for relief, which they did ; and in all cases relief was given where possible. I have there- fore been put in a false light by the inspector and those seeking to get the money belonging to the children and the Indians. Eev. Brauer has endeavored to make capital out of the cases of the Scott, Hllstad, and Schoenborn families, the women in each case being mixed bloods and their respective husbands being white men. The Scott family has a house of its own, and so has the Hilstad family. Mr. and Mrs. Hllstad applied to the agency office to deed their house to their children for their money, providing at the same time that a mortgage thereon should be paid ofC. Steps were taken to this end, and thus the funds of these children were hypothecated. The Scott children were provided for at the first request of Rev. Brauer. A house was purchased for the Schoenborn family with the money belonging to their minor children and the deed and purchase were approved by the Indian Office, and authority granted to use the money. Mrs. Susan Schoenborn and children were given rations whenever she applied for them, sometimes from the agency and at other times from the substation. Her husband, being white, is not and was not entitled to rations. From these stratements it will be seen that I did all that was possible to do under, the. cir- cumstances for these families, and yet I am held up by Inspector Linnen in a false and misleading light. On January 19, 1919, Mrs. Susan Schoenborn addressed a letter to me, saying, in substance, that B. J. Reck, judge of probate, and the Rev. Brauer, were trying to force her to sell the house which was purchased with her children's money ; that she did not want to do this as that would leave her and her children without a home, and that they wanted all this done because they (Reck and Brauer) did not want to help the family with the county fund. She begged me to help her hold her home. , , ^ „ , „ . On February 3. 1919, I advised her that the agency purchased lots 2 and 3 m block 4 of Aamoth's addition to the village of Mahnomen and the house located on these lots and paid Joseph J. Urness and Jorgen Nelson $385 for the same from the trust funds of her children ; that this sale was approved by the Indian Office • that the hose and lots are held in trust for her children and can not be sold unless the Indian Office consents. Mrs. Schoenborn was also advised that the aeencv would protect her and her children In this matter and would not reconmiend at this time the sale of her home, as the house and lots were pur- chased so that she and her children might have a home It is with extreme pleasure that I offer the letter of Mrs. Schoenborn and my answer for the record marked " K " and " L," respectively. ^ ^ ,^ ^ ^ j.^. T feel that I have been traduced, injured, and maligned by the report of the ai)ector regarding these families, as well as other matters or statements con- ^■T^f^o-P^B^T' Beck began his campaign for the individual Indian money in 91fi before the payments were completed and before the pro rata trust fund, iQn'fin bJ^ been deposited in the banks to the credit of the respective minors f^ ^^hPr fnSetents also before the disbursement of the annuities, $19.50 sch hid been finished Disbursements were begun in October and the first eposi?s made in bank, as I recall, November 28, 1916. 318 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. On October 31, 1916, Judge Reck addressed a letter to me, with a statement of mothers' pensions paid monthly for children of Indian blood for some time. He asked that the trust funds of the minor children be paid out for the support of the families until they were exhausted. As there was no author- ity in the regulations for the superintendent to comply with the judge's request, his letter and statement were sent to the Indian Office for consideration and proper action on November 27, 1916. I invited attention to the fact that the children of eight families were in- volved, the first containing five, two in the second, four in the third, five in the fourth, six in the fifth, (ive in the sixth, two in the seventh, and thre^ in the eighth. I indicated in pencil the age of each child and the places where they were in school, in case the child was old enough to attend school. Five of the children in question were in the White Earth Boarding School, one at the Fish Lake public school, four in the Mahnomen public school, four in the Government day school at Beaulieu, four in the Bijou Public School, two to be entered in the Government day school at Twin Lakes, and that eight were too young to be in school. Two were not in school. The husbands of two wives of these Indian families had died. The husband of another Indian woman is a white man and one husband was paralyzed. Three husbands had deserted their wives. The prorata trust payment of three of these recalcitrant husbands was used for the benefit of their respective wives and families. I expressed the opinion that the agency oflice should not undertake to relieve the county of Mahnomen of the jiayment of the mothers' pension, and that it would hardly seem to be fair and just to their minor children to take their estates — for it was the child's own money held in trust by the Government — ■ and use it for the support and maintenance of the families. A just and upright probate judge would use such funds for the support and education of the child, and that is just what I, as superintendent, have tried to do. Five of these children were being fed, clothed, and educated at the White Earth Boarding School, and evidently their funds should not be used to the sup- port of somebody else. I preferred to place all these children of school age in the boarding school, where they could be fed, clothed, and educated at Govern- ment expense, rather than use their funds to support and maintain other persons. With these remarks and observations the matter was submitted to the Indian Office for such action as might be deemed proper in the premises. As I re- ceived no answer to my letter I supposed that the office thought that no action was necessary. I offer for the record my letter to the office, dated November 27, 1916, marked " M." Inspector Linnen says that he found a case of destitution within 1 mile of the agency, and that it was evident that I was not in touch with many of the conditions obtaining on the reservation. I deny this statement most positively and emphatically. The facts are these : The name of the old woman referred to is Ne-gon-e-ge-shig-o-quay. She was living with her son, John Wlndigo, 45 or 50 years old, and her sister. Sho-nay- yah-quay, in a nice little house well situated upon a beautiful spot, well drained, and in a woodland. When I assumed charge of the agency April 1, 1916, Ne-gon-e-ge-shig-o-quay had to her credit $792.92, and other deposits were made to her credit from time to time. She was paid a monthly Installment of $20 and $25. On July 8, 1918, she was paid $38.40, and on July 20, 1918, Inspector Linnen, Dr. Feldman, and myself and others visited the old lady. The doctor examined her and said that she was not sick, but suffering from senility. I told her son that I had approved on July 8, 1918, a check in favor of his mother for $38.40, and asked him if she were in need and what had become of the proceeds of the check. He said that he had spent a part of the money for her use and benefit, and that be had $27 of the amount of the check on hand. He took that amount of money from his pocket and showed to those present, including Inspector Linnen. 'The woman, I submit, was not destitute. I submit for the record a statement in detail, marked " N," of the amounts paid this old woman which was taken from the agency ledger, showing the year the month, the day of the month, and the amount of each payment to her, the last two having been made July 8, 1918, $38.40, and July 20, 1918, $2.26 On July 20 she was removed to the hospital, where she could have more coin- forts. 319 Now, all these facts were made known to Inspectoi' lannen. I can not but in- fer and no fair-minded mah can but conclude that he willfully, purposely, and intentionally misrepresented the facts to mislead the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Indian Office. I had been informed that the old woman was sick, not destitute, and I had directed Dr. Feldnian to visit her, and, if sick, to have her removed to the hos- pital. The doctor had not been able to carry out the instruction because of pressing duties, so it will be seen that I did all that any superintendent could do in this case, and yet the inspector endeavors to blame and censure me in addition to his false statement and misrepresentation of the facts. There was placed recently to the credit of this old ^\'oman (Ne-gon-e-ge-shig-o- quay) the sum of $1,103.94, recovered in the settlement of a suit on her allot- ment, and thus she still has ample funds. Dr. Shoemaker, in charge now at the hospital, says that she is not a hospital case ; that she belongs to the Old Folks' Home at Beaulieu, where he intends to send her when the weather moderates. See for the record exhibit marked " O," showing the deposit last referred to, taken by the chief clerk from the ledger. The statements of Inspector Linnen as to the neglect of the school and the alleged run-down condition of the plant, reiterated on page 519 of the House hearings, have been answered in th^ foregoing pages. His reiteration on this page and certain other pages of charges against the superintendent reminds the superintendent of an assassin who had stabbed his victim and then stabbed him again, lest the first thrust would not be fatal. Stab him, stab him, stab him again is Inspector Linnen's motto. ' There has always been an inventory of the property on file at the White Earth Agency. It was difficult to put the new system of account into effect and the property clerk did not succeed in establishing the system until he was assisted by Mr. Cooper, the traveling supervisor or auditor for the Department of the Interior. I encouraged the property clerk to put in force the new system of property accounting and suggested that he take instructions from Mr. Hughes, who visited the agency to give instructions in the new system of bookkeeping and property accounting, but It appears that there was not time for proper in- struction. When Mr. Cooper visited the office to assist in installing the new system, I asked him to see that it was done, and if the clerk in charge of the property would not do it, to report the matter to the Indian Office and ask for the appointment of some one who would do the work. Mr. Cooper said he would do so. On his second visit to the agency he found the work in good shape and said that the clerk had promised to keep the property accounts as required under the new system of accounting, and he felt that the clerk would do so. And thus I have tried to keep faith with the Indian Office, carry out its instructions, harmonize discordant factions, relieve distress among the Indians, encourage them in industry and economy, promote their peace and happiness, advance them In education, and look after their general welfare and uplift, notwithstanding the misrepresentations and beclouded statements of Inspector Linnen. In this connection I wish to invite attention to my letter of June 5, 1917, to the Commissioner of Indian Aftairs regarding field matron work, marked " P " for the record, as showing my interest in the welfare, happiness, health, and uplift of the Indians within my jurisdiction ; also letter of August 17, 1918, to the commissioner, marked for the record " Q," recommending, for good and suffi- cient reasons, the abolishment of the Elbow Lake Day School, for both which matters Inspector Linnen seeks in his report justification and praise. Inspector Linnen nowhere in his report refers to or makes statement of the improvements made by me during my short time as superintendent, with evident intention of concealing the good accomplished and misleading the department officials as to my work and administration. , . , ^ . The boys' dormitory as remodeled and improved under my administration has convenient sanitary toilets and bath facilities, a reading room, lockers on the first floor good sleeping apartment, and the basement has been concreted and provided 'with ample sunlight, heat, and ventilation for health, recreation, and play purposes This basement was not finished until recently, because of the lack of material and labor, and in its unfinished state it seemed to offend esthetic' taste of the inspector. He seems incapable of exercising a fair, impartial iudgrnent as to matters and things which could not be done, most of theiii of minor importance, with the labor and material, or rather lack of material at hand, and especially when and where he could not coerce the 320 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. superintendent Into changes and acts, not in the superintendent's opinion an( under his oath, for the good of the service. The heating system of the dormitory last named was changed under m; direction from the basement furnace plan to steam, supplied from the boile house. This system is splendid— I had the water pump room concreted an( heated by steam so as to prevent freezing of the pump in extremely col( weather. This pump is automatic, as is also the pump which returns the ex haust steam to the boiler, thus saving fuel and labor. Supervisor R. M. Prlngle says that this dormitory as remodeled is now th best all-around doniitory in the Indian Service. He knows because he visits al plants in the service for the purpose of inspection and reconstruction when necessary. I remodeled and Improved the laundry. Supervisors say that it is the bes little laundry in the service. I built a modern dairy barn with our own labo and much of our own material, 36 by 80 feet, at a cost in cash of $1,600. I Is worth not less than $7,000 or $8,000, according to estimate. It has stan cheons, maternity stalls, calf pens, and a bull stall, all modern in equipment It is supplied with fresh water, has a system of ventilation, and Is equippe( with feed and litter carriers and a silo. This bar is a beauty and is admirei by all visitors. The walks in front of all the buildings and from the school plant to th agency have been repaired, and instruction had been given to repair the walk leading to the laundry and commissary and certain others in the rear. Thi could not all be done at once with the help at hand and the other works to b done. All the frame buildings of the agency and hospital were repainted ii 1917. The school buildings are brick, except the domestic cottage which is i wooden structure. I constructed a shed in 1916 to agency horse -barn, of good proportions, coi venient and useful, and made some improvements at the hospital for coi venience and safety. Under my supervision a ditch was dug which reclaime for hay purposes some 25 or 30 acres of land, and there was cleared and adde to the school garden and farm some 10 acres, under my direction. In 1916 sowed an acre to alfalfa as an experiment. The, experimentation proved a success, and I seeded In 1917 about 8 acre from which we cut several tons of hay in 1918. The stand is good and thei will be more hay this year. All this, and more, too, was done in a little ovt two years. I had planned to remodel the basement of the school horse barn, to constru( a manure pit for the dairy barn, so as to save all the urine and other fertilize! for the garden and farm ; also to construct a concrete-roof cellar ; and the I expected to resign and let another enjoy the fruits of my labors. In additio to the foregoing, I visited at the beginning of the war — April, 1917 — the sul stations or day schools of the reservation, talked increased production of foe and its conservation, organized farmers' clubs among the Indians, and encou aged them to exercise thrift and economy. I held patriotic meetings ; preache genuine Americanism, true patriotism, and justification for the war. Tout men were encouraged to enlist in the Army and the Navy. When the selectii draft was ordered I was directed to register the Indians of proper age, unlei I could arrange with. the local authorities to do so. I took the matter up wil the local boards of the three separate counties of the reservation — Becke Mahnomen, and Clearwater — and arranged for tliem to conduct the reglstr tlon with the cooperation of myself and office force. There were two su( registrations, and then came the filling out of the questionnaires of the regi trants, and in which my force and I assisted. This took time and labor. The Indians were kept advised of the situation and given Information whe ever they asked. A call was made for subscriptions to the liberty loans. The employees ai Indians, adults and minors, subscribed in the aggregate, for the second, thir and fourth liberty loan $127,100. Most of these subscriptions and paymen therefor were made through the agency office. All this took time and labc All this was done notwithstanding there were 64 changes in the employe* either by resignation or transfer (there being one death) for the years 19 and 1918. The filling of these vacancies required time, labor, tact, and skill, ev though temporary. I purchased certain lands for the Mille Lac Indians, 3 souls, located some 200 miles by rail from the agency, for school, garden, a: allotment purposes. All these labors and efforts go unmentioned by the i INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 321 Bpeotor (Linnen). and I imi cdnclwiined by him without notice or hearing or even evidence. My rights as a citizen and official have been disregarded and put to naught. I charge that the labors of Inspector Linnen are detrimental to the field Service ; he Is destructive In his methods, narrow, unsympathetic, arrogant, and even abusive toward employees. I cite as an instance a concrete case, his profane abuse of one John Squirrel, an Indian niglit watch at tlie school, who had made violent threats against the superintendent because he (Squirrel) could not be appointed cliief of police. Inspector Linnen seeks to control and dominate the field force by putting them in fear and fright of himself. He is a would-be kaiser, and in liis limited sphere, equally as destructive, cruel, in- human, and brutal. This is my deliberate judgment after 30 years of faithful, honest, con- scientious service in botli the Indian Office and the field, also in the study of men. To him who is familiar with the facts his report is amazing, shocking, and distressing, and it is wondered whether there is any remedy or redress either through the executive or legislative branch of the Government, for assaults by special officers upon the character and capacity of employees and their conviction or condemnation without notice of charges and opportunity to hear »nd meet them. I can not close without relating this incident as showing the type of man and officer that he is : I refer to the neglect by Inspector Linnen to pay the expenses of the Government chauffeur, an Indian named William Any-wausli, who drove him over the reservation in a Government auto. When the gasoline was ex- hausted in making the tour the inspector declined or neglected to purchase a supply, leaving that for the Indian to pay for. The inspector also declined or neglected to pay for tlie subsistence of the Indian driver while on the trip. The Indian had to borrow the money while out on the reservation to pay these necessary expenses incurred for the benefit of the inspector, and the Indian had not on February 8, 1919, procured his subvouchers in order to get reim- bursement from the agency for his expenditures. This Is the first and only case to ray knowledge where an inspecting or supervising officer lias declined or neglected to pay his necessary expenses. In conclusion, a congressional investigation of the methods and procedure practiced by Inspector Linnen and the reasons for his recommendations will reveal injustice, injuries, and hardships infiicted upon Indian Service employees and show the iniquity of a system as practiced, as well as abuse of authority- bordering on " personal absolutism," prevailing in Army courts-martial. Respectfullv submitted. .1. H. Hi?;ton, Formerly Superintendent of the White Earth School. and Agency^ CROW IXDIAN RESERVATION EMPLOTMBNT OF ATTORNEYS. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, before we go into that, can we not dispose of this amendment that I tendered in behalf of the Crows? The Chairman. I beg pardon. Senator. Senator Walsh. I would like to see that matter disposed of. The Chairman. What was your amendment? Senator Walsh. One of the sections of the bill' for allotting and prorating the Crow lands provided that the Crows should have the right to introduce suits in the Court of Claims upon claims made aldnst the Government. By general consent that bill went over, but the Crows sav that they have some witnesses in support of their elaims who are very aged and may die at any time, and the testi- monv may be lost. They are consequently very desirous of having a provision eo on this bill authorizing them to bring suits m the Court 6f Claims aiid, as I understand the situd,tion, it is entirely satisfac- torv to the department, except that under the amendment tendered" the Crows are given the right to select any attorney they see fit, while- 106080—19 21 322 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. the department insists upon the right to approve the selection which they may make. Senator La Follette. Are these claims against the Government? Senator Walsh. Yes ; they assert that by virtue of treaties in the past, and one thing and another, they have rights as against the Gov- ernment. The Chairman. They ask for legislation giving them the author- ity or permitting them to go to the Court of Claims. Senator Walsh. Yes ; to prosecute whatever claims they may have. The Chairman. They only wish authority to go to the Court of Claims? Senator Walsh. Yes. The Chairman. That is not a claim. Senator Walsh. Oh, no. I merely desire to say that I understand fully the attitude of the department with respect to this matter, and I know something of the history of this in the past. Congress is obliged to take a strong hand concerning the employment of attor- neys representing the Indians, and that legislation, I know, is founded in a very sad kind of experience. I merely desire to inquire of you, Mr. Meiitt, whether that matter can not be controlled easily enough by your power to disbar any attorney from practicing ? You have entire control, have you not, of the subject of who shall have the right to appear as attorney before the department ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we have the right to control who shall appear be"fore.the department, but that would not be sufficient to con- trol this situation, Senator. Senator Curtis. They want to appear before the Court of Claims. That would be entirely different. Senator Walsh. Then, let us take care of that by making a provi- sion that they shall employ no attorney excepting one of good stand- ing before the department. Now, if there are any attorneys who, by their irregular practice, are unworthy of credit, why, of course, they ought not to be permitted to undertake this litigation for the Indians. But I thought it would be controlled in that way. Mr. Meritt. We could not control the situation by that means. Senator Walsh. I appreciate that you codld nbt control who they should select, but you could restrict their selection to those attor- neys, who are in good standing before the department. Now, when you do that, Mr. Meritt, if they are restricted to some attorney who IS regularly authorized to practice before the Department of the Interior, what reason is there for your desire to further control the matter ? Mr. Meritt. This question of attorneyship with the Indian tribes is a very serious one and should receive the careful consideration of this committee in view of the history of attorney contracts that have been made with the Indians outside of existing law and without the approval of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secre- tary of the Interior. Attorneys, in violation of the regulatioAs of the department, prescribed under the acts of Congress, have gone to the Crow Tribe of Indians and have already procured contracts. The action in this proposed legislation would validate those contracts procured outside of the regulations and contrary to the provisions of existing law. The same attorney who has been negotiating with the Crow Tribe also has attorney contracts with a great many other 1920. 323 Indian tribesj all procured outside of the regulations of the depart- ment and not in compliance with existing law. Senator Walsh. For the information of the committee, I under- stand that they have entered into some kind of agreement with Mr. Victor J. Evans, of this city. Mrs. Helen Gray. Not the Crow Indians. That was at Billings. Mr. RoBEpT Yellowtail. You do not know anything about that, Mrs. Gray. ' Senator Walsh, Let me proceed. We had some testimony here concerning some relationship between Mr. Victor J. Evans and the Flathead Tribe of Indians that I confess did not seem quite right .to me--it did not strike me as a favorable thing at all,, and I have no particularly favorable impression here from what I learned of Mr. Victor J. Evans. Beyond that I do not know anytliing about him. But if he is authorized to practice before the Department of the Interior, and he is in good standing there, I do not see why he should not be permitted to represent these Indians, if the Indians want him to represent them. The Chairsian. How can the Department of the Interior say who shall represent an Indian before the Court of Claims? The Court of Claims may recognize anybody it desires as attorney, can it not? Senator Walsh. But my suggestion is this : You put in a provi- sion here that no attorney shall represent them, or be entitled to any compensation except one who is in good standing before the De- partment of the Interior, and he would not have any right under this contract at all. Now, so far as validating is concerned, you could put a further provision in the bill that no contract heretofore en- tered into should be of any validity. Mr. Meeitt. We have no objection to the Crow Tribe of Indians going to the Court of Claims. We have no objection to the Crow Indians employing a reputable and competent attorney, to prosecute their claim against the Government. The only interest we have in this matter is to see that not oaly the interests of the Crpw Tribe of Indians but those of the Government as well are protected. Senator Walsh. Mr. Meritt. I think you are asking too much.' The Govermnent is represented' in the Court of C/laims by an attor- ney who is looking out for the Government's interests. You do not want an attorney on both sides of the case. Mr. Meeitt. Not at all, Senator; but let me point out what has occurred in the past under similar jurisdictional bills — — Senator Feenald. Just one moment. Mr. Chairman, there is a delegation from my State awaiting to see me, and I would like to be excused, and will leave my vote with Senator McNary. (Without objection, it was so ordered.) Mr. Meeitt. Let me point out what has occurred heretofore as the result of similar legislation as is proposed — ^legislation that would enable attorneys to make contracts with the tribes without the super- vision of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior. Take, for instance, the Ute case. A very smooth Wash- ington attorney got a jurisdictional act through Congress which en- abled him to recover an attorney's fee of about $250,000. That legis- lation was so smoothly worded that he got his fee of $250,000, and we had to come back to Congress to get an appropriation for the Indians of $3,000,000. 024 IIsTDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Walsh. But, Mr. Meritt, the matter of the amount can be taken care of all right enough. The amendment tendered pro- poses that the attorney shall have a reasonable fee, to be fixed by the Court of Claims. Mr. Meeitt; The Court of Claims fixed a reasonable fee in that case. Senators. The Court of Claims also fixed the reasonable fee of $750,000 in what is known as the McMurray case, which has been more or less of a scandal in connection with Indian litigation. Senator Walsh. Well, you could take care of that by putting a limit on it, making it not to exceed 5 per cent of tlie amount, or 10 per cent of the amount, or whatever you desire. ' » Mr. Meeitt. I might say that the McMurray claim was worked . through by a man by the name of McMurray, of Oklahoma ; and I think it was the distinguished chairman of this committee who said he was so smooth and slippery that he could walk up the stairs of the Senate with an armfuU of eels and not lose a single one of them. The Chairman. Mack never resented that. We are good friends. Anybody who can put through Congress an item for a fee aggregat- ing close to a million dollars can do almost anything. I have no antagonism to McMurray. He is a friend of mine; but he is cer- tainly smooth. Senator Nugent. If my recollection serves me right, last year this committee adopted a measure of the character referred to by Senator Walsh, and I think we limited the fee the attorney should receive not to exceed 15. per cent of the amount recovered. Now, why can we riot do that in this case? We should provide just exactly as Senator Walsh has said, for a reasonable fee, not to exceed the sum of 10 or 15 per cent of the amount recovered, as the committee may agree. Mr. Meeitt. Another thing. Senators : If this item goes through, this same attorney, who has other contracts, will bring other claims, and this will establish a precedent. He has contracts now that will probably net him in attorney fees alone several million dollars if he can get this legislation enacted. The Chairman. Do you object to giving his name? Senator Nugent. I do not see that this committee is interested in that ; but if these Indians, and other claimants are interested in vali- dating claims against the Government of the United States, it would appear to me that they have an absolute right, morally, at least, and should have in. law, to select an attorney to represent them as against the Government, and he should have the right to secure a reasonable compensation for his services. 1 am willing to limit it to almost anything.; it should be limited to a certain per cent of the amount he recovers — -if he recovers anything. Senator Walsh. This is the provision : Not to exceed 15 per cent of the recovery, to be paid to tlie attorney or at- torneys employed by the said Crow Tribe of Indians, and the same shall be included in the decree and shSiU be paid otit of any sums found due said tribe. ' Now, if 15 per cent is too much, if it is not in accordance with the usual fee in such cases, fix another limit. Mr. Meeitt. I think there should be another proviso to the effect that the total amount awarded for attorney's fees should not exceed $25,000. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 325 ' ?r "^^?^ Walsh. I would have no objection to that. Mr. AIerito. That should be another provision, and I would urge very strongly, Senators, that these contracts be approved by the Sec- retary ot the Interior and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in :; accordance w-ith existing law. In its wisdom. Congress has placed Oils law on the statute books, and there was a reason, a good reason, for this law growing out of the experiences with Indian affairs. If this Item goes through it will be a precedent, Senators, and this attorney, who has been making contracts outside of the law, will come before Congress and endeavor to get all the jurisdictional bills through which will enable him to recover very large attorney's fees, and it will encourage other attorneys to proceed contrary to the laws enacted by Congress. We have no objection to the Crows selecting a reputable attorney and if the regular jurisdictional bill is passed along regular, lines a very large latitude will be given the Crows in selecting their attorney, but that should be governed by the existing law. Mr. Yellowtail. May I have a word at this point, Mr. Chairman? , The Chairman. Just wait One moment, please. Senator NtrGENT. Mr. Chairman, in order to further clear this matter, I suggest that the proposed amendment should provide not only that the man be an attorney in good standing in the Interior Department, but that he be an attorney in good standing in the higest court of the State or Territory or District, as it may be, in which he resides. Of course, the presumption necessarily follows that under those circumstances a man who occupies a position of that character is an honorable man. Senator Walsh. I think that is quite proper. Senator J^ugent. That being true, I utterly fail to see any reason why any Government official should supervise or exercise any super- • vision or any right to say what reputable attorney an Indian tribe should employ to prosecute a claim against the Government, provided the contract of employment limits his compensation to a reasonable sum. I am thoroughly in accord with Senator Walsh's views to the effect that with the Indians a party in interset on one side, and the Government a party in interest on the other side, that the Govern- ment should have absolutely nothing to say with respect to the emr ployment of the attorney — provided he is a reputable man who reprer sents to Indians. Mr. Meeitt. Senators, we have no objec-tion to this jurisdictional item going on the Indian bill provided it is incorporated in the bill and contains the language found in the Walsh Crow bill, nor have we any objection to tlie item contained in the Nugent bill. Senator Xugent. Wliat is that language? Mr. Meritt. The interests are thoroughly protected by those two bills. This language in the amendment proposed by Robert Yellow- tail is thoroughly objectionable. , , , Mr. Yellowtail. I am glad to know that. I would like to have a Word here, Mr. Chairman, Avhen you are ready to hear me. We are deeply interested in this matter. The Chairman. Is there any objection to hearing Mr. Yellowtail? I (There was no objection.) Mr. Yellowtail. Senator Xugent has said practically what I wanted to say. I want to add that the Senator has said that it gives 326 us the right to go to the Court of Claims, and it also gives tlie Court of Claims authority to say what the attorney shall receive ; in no case shall he receive to exceed 15 per cent, and we further have agreed to make that 10 per cent. It' is going to involve these particular claims, or claim, that we have against the Government involving the land along the Missouri Eiver bottom that we are not very well paid for, according to the meaning of the old treaties, and it is going to entail a big amount of work on the part of the attorney who takes it up. Further than that, as Senator Walsh has said, we have two wit- nesses left, and if they are gone this law will be a dead letter on the books, if not enacted very promptly. Old Maj. Pease was the first agent of the Crow Indians. He is one, and there is an old Civil War veteran who will be able to testify for us before the Court of Claims, and if they are gone then we might as well have no law because we would not be able to prosecute our claims when this 'chance of re- covery is gone. The attitude of the department seems to be unfair. It is not a suit against the Commissioner of Indian Affairs ; it is not a suit against the Interior Department, but against the Government as a whole, and we want to control the attorneyship. If I should select Mr. Meritt's personal friend, or Mr. Cato Sells's political friend out in Missouri, I suppose there would be no 'trouble to put this thing through. But we insist, Mr. Chairman, that we have the right to select any attor- ■ ney tliat we want. That looks to me like nothing more than a fair proposition. I will say that if Mr. Meritt will give us his job, we will emploj' him and give him more money than he is getting. He told me himself that he could go to Oklahoma to represent the oil people and that he would receive more money than he is receiving here; so if he is willing, we will take Mr. Meritt. I think he is fair — and I think the Crows will back me up in it that we will give him $7,000 a year. Mr. Mjeeitt. I do not care to have the position, Mr. Chairman, nor have I any personal or political friend to employ as attorney. All I want is to have the Crows themselves select the attorney and have the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior supervise the contract so that the interests of the Crows will be pro- tected and so that there will not arise hereafter a scandal in connec- tion with the attorney's fees the same as there was in the McMurray case and the the same as there was in the Ute case. Senator Nugent. How could that be, Mr. Meritt? In this con- tract it would be provided in specific terms that his compensation should consist of a reasonable fee to be fixed by the Court of Claims, not to exceed, 10 per cent, say, of tlie amount recovered. Mr. Mekitt. Some of these Indians — take, for instance, the Chip- pewas — have had similar bills to this introduced in Congress, only the other jurisdictional act was more smoothly worded than is this bill. They have actually, by the wording of that bill, created, a claim against the Government, and if that were passed theye would be a claim created by legislative enactment, and the Chippewa Indians would recover, we estimate, not less than $15,000,000. Senator Nugent. Does that contract provide what I have sug- gested ? Mr. Meritt. Under that contract the attorney would get 10 per cent of the amount recovered. The attorney in this case would re- INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 32 cover a fee of $1,500,000 if the Court of Claims should award hin 10 per cent, and it is our understanding that the attorney whom i is proposed to employ has already an understanding with certaii members of the Chippewa Tribe as to that fee. Mr. Coffey has made the statement that tliOA' have already agreec among themselves as to the division of that fee that he is to get- Mr. Carl. Mr. Coffey was without authority to make any such as sertion. The Chairman. Well, I presume Mr. Coffey will say that he was so this \\ould go on ad infinitum. Senator Ctjetis. I think a suggestion from iiie will save a litth time, Mr. Chairman. It is true that there has been no objectioi raised to putting in the Indian appropriation bill a provision re ferring these matters to the Court of Claims, yet they have alway been drawn in accordance with the provisions of the statute provid ing for the employment of lawyers, as provided by the general stat utes, and if there is any change in that regard to be made, I shal have to reserve the right to make a point of order against the amendment. I want to say for the TDenefit of the committee that I think thes( Indians ought to have a lawyer. I think the Indian office ought tc be more liberal in the employment of lawyers in tribal contracts and I want to say further that we never have yet gone outside oi those statutes and perniitted attorneys to be employed where a scan- dal has not resulted, and I think it would be very unfortunate tc change this action in this case. Senator La Follette. Was it not because yoa did not put any restriction on it at all? Senator Curtis. No; there were restrictions m the McJMurriiy case. Senator La Follette. Was there not a limitation put on the fee? Senator Curtis. It was not a limitation, but it was supposed to be a reasonable fee. Senator La Foli>ette. Oh, yes. Senator Curtis. That is what they want here. Senator La Follette. No ; we do not depend upon that here Senator Curtis. They say 10 per cent — not to exceed 10 per cent. Senator La Follette. Not to exceed — ^then it was suggested that it might be limited to a lump sum of $25,000. Senator Curtis. That is the suggestion now. b\it when you let down the bars once you have got to let them down again. Senator La Follette. I do not believe that the Department of the Interior ought to be permitted to select an attorney for the Indians when the Indians are bringing suit against the Government. Senator Curtis. They do not select the attorney, Senator. Senator La Follette. And I want to say that I would not be in favor of the provision suggested by Senator Walsh, that would give them, the right to eliminate an attorney by disbarring him from prac- ticing before the department, because I am confident that the depart- ment has been autocratic in the use of that power heretofore, and because attorneys would not submit to being browbeaten. They would resent it, and perfectly reputable and clean attorneys, of just as good standing as the attorneys that do appear there, have been 828 IXDIAX APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. excluded from practicing before the department, and for no better reason than that. Senator Curtis. I think the statement is true that they have retusejj contracts with a great manv reputable lawyers. I do not think thfi department is justified in 'refusing the contract of any reputable lawyer, but if he is not reputable he ought to be disbarred, not only from the department but from the Court of Claims, and before the courts of the country. Senator La Follette. I have stood here at all times since I have been a member of this committee for limiting these fees, and limiting them in the strictest way, and have had many contests with other members of this committee and have been voted down again and again because I wanted to put in a provision for a minimum fee. I am in favor of that. I would be in favor of a lump-sum settlement established if we could get any conception of the amount of work that would be required, so that we might make a reasonable and proper provision of that sort as a check upon it, but I think the pro- vision ought to go in this bill giving these Indians the opportunity to take this action before their witnesses are dead and gonfe. If they have a claim I think they ought to have the right to go into the court and establish it, and I think they ought to have the right to select their own attorney. I do think the .suggestion of Senator Nugent that the attorney should be an attorney of recognized standing before all the bars of the counti-y is a sufficient safeguard so far as the reputation of the attorney is concerned, and then let the committee put a limitation upon their fee that will insure these Indians not being robbed by the liberality of the Court of Claims, as we have had some examples of in the past. Dr. Eastman. The' assistant commissioner considers their attor- neys better judges of these things than the Court of Claims judges. The matter depends entirely upon what these Indians desire to get adjudicated by the judges of the Court of Claims, and the lawyers should be jiaid fees for what they will perform. That is one point that we "Indians contend. I for one have for 30 years now tried to have the Indian have his say, coming directly against the Govern- ment of the United States on the proposition that the Indian Bureau makes. He says, " Oh, yes; the Indians may select, but we can veto ' it." I havp known many reputable lawyers of just as good standing as Mr. Meritt, for whom I have great respect and great regard, not being allowed to appear here. There is another thing. The Interior Department has been accustomed, when any lawyers came hei'e to speak for the Indians, to endeavor to blackmail them or throw slui^s on them, I'egardless of what the question is before them. We have evidence enough to prove that they have the Indians go and fight between themselves. They did that before the committee. I think it is very unwise and ill advised. The Indians feel that there is no consideration of the higher order on the part of the deiDartment in dealing with the Indians at all. They regard us as children; that is the situation here; that we do not know what is right. I have been sitting here from day to day and have noticed that Mr. Meritt uses one line of argument on one day, and the next day he contradicts the whole thing. It is a most INDIAJT APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 329 serious tihiiig and a sad lesson in these discussions to see one so incon- sistent in the system of this Government and its institutions. I have great respect for Senator Curtis, who has done so much for the Indians, but it seems to me that there is one thing we ought to get, Mid that is, anyone who has a drop of Indian blood, who is defined as an Indian, give him a foothold in the law of this country. Other- wise he is not a true citizen of the United States. Senator Curtis. I have ah^ays, Dr. Eastman, protected the In- dians, and the records will show that if they had followed the sug- gestions I made to them their property rights would have been protected. Several times I have been overridden by committees, and in each instance the Indians have been very grossly robbed, and in one case here, while I did not object because the chairman of the committee wanted the bill passed, I am told that 90 per cent of the Indians have already been robbed of their land. Dr. Eastman. I do not know whether the lawyers got it, but we Indians never got it. It Mas a million or two million dollars. The department will never raise its finger to get it for them. I have known it for the last 30 yeais. We have had attorneys selected by the department and paid $5,000 a year, and they did not do one thing in the case of Pipestone, that has been pending so many years, and a good many others like that. Mr. Meeitt. In response to that statement, I want to say that I, myself, drafted a general jurisdictional bill and submitted it to Con- gress and suggested that that legislation be passed, which would allow every Indian tribe in the United States to submit such claim as they might have against the Government to the Court of Claims, with the right of either partj' to appeal to the Supreme Court. In that proposed legislation the Indians were permitted to select their attorneys, with the approval of the contract by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior. • Now, as an Indian Office official, I have done everything within my power to enable the Indian tribes to get their claims before the Court of Claims. As you probably know, I have taken the position that every Indian in the United States should be a citizen. I have always thought that, and I was never in accord with the Burke Act. We have drafted legislation on this Crow matter which would permit the Crows to go to the Court of Claims under a properly worded jurisdictional act along the line of jurisdictional acts that have here- tofore been passed by Congress, and which have prevented these scandals in connection with these attorney's fees. If -either this jurisdictional bill, as contained in Senator Walsh's bill, or the juris- dictional bill as contained in Senator Nugent's bill, is placed on the Indian bill, no objection will be made by the Indian Office to that proposed legislation. It is for the purpose of protecting the In- dians, and also avoiding scandals that have occurred in the past, and Senator Curtis, who is thoroughly familiar with the history of these scandals, will concur in the statement I have made. Dr. Eastjian. Why are those scandals? That is what I want to understand. , ,. , Senator Walsh. I suggest that we need not discuss that further. I have taken the liberty to amend the amendment tendered so that the concluding part of it shall read as follows : 330 INDIAiy^ APPROI-EIATION BILL, 1920. Provided, That upon the final deterniination of such suit or suits the Court „ of Claims shall have jurisdiction to fix and determine a reasonable fee, not to . exceed 10 per cent of the recovery, and in no event to be in excess of $25,000, to ' be paid to the attorney or attorneys in part by the said Crow Tribe of Indians, (1 who must be a member or members of the bar in good standing of the highest j court of the State, District, or Territory iu which he or they reside, and the ,[ same shall be included in the decree and shall be paid out of any sum or sums , found due said tribe. " I hope Senator Curtis will find that is correct. , Senator McNart. What is the amount of the claims to be pre- '■ sented ? ' ^ Senator AValsh. I could not give you any idea as to that.. [^ Senator McXart. I was just wondering what relation this mini- . mum fee bore to the sum that may be collected for those Indians. Senator Walsh. If recovery is had at all, it will be enough. '[ The Chairman. Several millions of dollars? Senator Walsh. I should think so. Senator McNaey. That sounds pretty good to me. I move its ;^ adoption. * Senator Walsh. I do not wish to press this if Senator Curtis '' thinks otherwise. ' Senator Curtis. I shall make the point of order on that amend- '' ment if it is offered. \ Senator Walsh. Then, I do not intend to oflfer it, because I do not ? want this committee to take action on a matter that a member of the , committee says he protests against and insists that it is not right. Of course it is not. It is contrary to the rule to put it on. ' The Chairman. What are you going to do about allowing, this ' testimony to escape perpetuation? ' Senator Ntjgemt. The same condition arises. There is no question ' in the world that these Indians have the right to have that testimony '' perpetuated. They are entitled to it, even if taken under stipulation j' for its perpetuation. They are certainly entitled to be represented " by an attorney, so they are going to be confronted with the same ;' situation in that respect as they are confronted with to-day, and ' that is that they can not employ an attorney to represent them in a ' contest against the Government until such time as their contract is ' approved by one department of the Government against whom they ' have this claim. I am willing to fight the matter out on the floor of ■ the Senate. ' The Chairman. Well, it is subject to a point of order. Senator. Senator Nugent. I think it is entirely unjustified either in law or ' in morals to bring about a condition of that character. * Senator Walsh. The Crows have for years been asking for this legislation. They have, been asking for it ever since I have been " here. Mr. Yellowtail. Ever since the days of Senator Clark of Mon- tana. The Chairman. I have never met Mr. Victor J. Evans. He may be and doubtless is a very estimable gentleman, and he may be sit- - ting here in this room to-day ; but the testimony that has come to me during the last five or six years is that he has been exercising a bale- ful influence over the Crow Indians, and that he has been misguiding them and misadvising, them. He may be sitting here now. I do not know anything about it ;. but that is certainly vsr'hat people say INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 331 to me and what I believe. I thinlc the department f ea,rs that they may employ Victor J. Evans. Senator Nugent. Why is he not disbarred? You have a bar asso- ciation here, I assume. I know the bar association of the State in which I reside, when it has laiowledge of the fact that a man is guilty of disreputable tactics, it is the absolute duty of that bar asso- ciation to institute on its own motion proceedings to disbar him. Now, if this man Victor J. Evans — I do not know anything about Mm — is a man of the character described here, it appears to me to be the duty of the department itself, if you please, if there is suffi- cient evidence to warrant the belief, to institute proceedings for his disbarment from the supreme court of this District. Mr. Meritt. I want to say that Mr. Victor J. Evans is not a regu- lar practicing attorney. He practices patent law. So far as I know, he does not take any outside cases. I do not believe he has ever had a case before the Court of Claims regarding, Indian matters. He has made a fortune in the practice of the patent law. Senator Nugent. Is he a member of the bar of the supreme court of this District, do you know ? Mr. Meeitt. I do not know whether he is or not. He may be a member of the supreme court bar to practice patent law. Senator La Follette. Does he practice before the Department of the Interior? ilr. Meritt. He practices before the Patent Office. Senator La Follette. Well, that is under the Department of the Interior. Senator Nugent. Would your objection lie, Mr. Meritt, if some other attorney than Victor J. Evans were selected by these people? I imderstand you have a particular objection to him. I do not sup- pose the Crow Indians are wedded to Mr. Evans? Mr. Meritt. Our objection is based on the principle of the legisla- tion enacted by Congress and found in sections 2103, 2104, 2105, and 2106 of the Revised Statutes, which require a certain method of pro- cedure in making tribal attorney contracts. Senator Nugent. You do not contend that legislation by Congress with respect to this matter at this time would not be a repeal by im- plication, at least, of the statute heretofore adopted ? Mr. Meritt. But we are basing our objection to this legislation on the Indian bill, which is subject to a point of order under the rules of the Senate. . . Senator La Follette. But it can be adopted in the Senate on a two-thirds vote. . . Senator Kendeick. Mr. Chairman, may I ask the ccftnmissioner a question? Is there any plan to secure this evidence before it is lost or before these witnesses die in support of the claim of the Crow Tribe? „,'...,.. , Mt.'Meeitt. We vvould be m favor of this jurisdictional act going en this Indian bill in the form contained in either the Walsh bill or the Nugent bill, and I do not believe any point of order would be made against that legislation. ' Senator Kendeick. That is on the assumption that we would pass that bill. Now, would it not be a matter of justice and in the interest of right to secure this evidence or testimony in some form oV other without regard to whether we pass the Crow amendment or not ? 332 TNDiAX appropriatiojs- bill, 1920. Mr. Meritt. My assumption was that you would take that para- graph of either the Walsh bill or the Nugent bill and incorporate it' in the Indian bill and that would meet the objection raised by Sena- tor Curtis. Senator Kexdeick. Mr. Chairman. I am compelled to leave the committee now, and I simply want to make a brief explanation at this time. When this question was first raised I was quite inclined to support it. and I believe on one occasion did vote for it before this committee, I think, when it was here before, but afterwards the Senator from Kansas [Mr. Curtis] changed my mind about it in the light of the statement that he made of his own personal experience, and as muSi as I would dislike to do anything that would suggest a spirit of un- fairness to the Indians, I am unable to see any ffood reason why the Secretary of the Interior, representing the Indians directly, would be prejudiced against a reputable attorney, and in his action in apprpv- ing one, and therefore I wish to be recorded as voting no on this question. The Chairman. That will be done, if there is no objection. Sena- tor Walsh, do you want to renew your amendment or do you wish to do anything further in the matter? Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, I shall not ask the committee to put anything in this bill when a member of the committee asserts that he is going to make a point of order against it on the floor. I regret this exceedingly. The Indians have been asking for this leg- islation for 15 or 20 years. As I have said, they have been asking for it all the time that I have been here, and I presume the fact is that these witnesses are very aged and are likely to die. Mr. Yeulowtail. One of them is 90 years old. Senator Walsh. But that is for the Indians themselves to con- sider. They can get this under the terms the Commissioner pro- vides — that is, by accepting a provision the same as in the two bills that have been considered by the Indians ; so they are obliged to make their choice about the matter. The Chairman. What have you to say about that, Robert ? Mr. Yellowtail. We would prefer to have it in the form of a sepa- rate bill to-morrow and let Sejiator Curtis fight it. Senator Curtis. I will not fight it as a separate bill. I have noth- ing personal against Mr. Evans or any other attorney. I do not know anything about him. All I say is that every time we have done this there has been a scandal growing out of it, and why try it now ? There has been no complaint except the general complaint made by Senator La FoUette and myself that the department is not liberal enough. Senator Walsh. The Indians here can make their choice, either to accept the provisions or let the thing stand. That is all. The Chairman. That is the question I aslted you. Do you Want to let it remain and take a chance of these aged men dying and their testimony not being taken, or are you willing to take the proposition as comprehended in the Nugent or Walsh bills ? Mr. Yellowtail. No, sir. The Chairman. You would not accept that? Mr. Yellowtail. No, sir. The Chairman. And you speak for the Crows about that ? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 338 Mr. Yellowtail. Yes, sir. The Chairman. You may confer T*^ith them while we go on with another matter. CLAIMS or CERTAIN ATTORNEYS. The Chairman. Now, shall we put claims in the bill? A large number of claims have been sent in. Senator CpiTis. We may as well stop that. I shall make a point of order against any claim being incorpora,ted in this bill over $100 or $200, as it was last year. The Chairman. Is there objection to that? [After a pause.] There will be no claims above $200 on the bill. Minnesota. prorating of chippewa fund. Mr. Meritt. There is one further Chippewa item that was not put on the bill which was discussed a day or two ago. The item reads as follows. The Secretary of the Interior is liereby authorized to prorate the principal funds of the Chippewa Indians in the Treasury of the tJnited States arising under the provisions of tlie act appffived January 14, 1889 (25 Stats., 642), ex- cept such amount as may be necessary for the maintenance and operation of the Chippewa Schools, so as to credit each enrolled member of the tribe with an equal share and to pay the same to the Indians under such rules and regu- lations as the said Secretary may prescribe: Pro-vided, That the shares of minors and incompetents may be placed to their credit as individual Indian money and paid to or expended for their benefit as their needs require. This item proposes to give authority to the Secretary of the In- terior to prorate the Chippewa funds, and pay out to the competent Indians and deposit to the credit of the minors and the old and incompetent Indians their pro rata share. The Chippewa Indians, as a rule, are in favor of this legislation. They have $6,000,000 in the Treasury to their credit, and we believe those Indians should have this money. We want to relinquish our jurisdiction over these funds. Senator Curtis. I asked you the question the other day, are those rolls in condition now where you can make payment? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. You are sure about that? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, may we have this item in- corporated in the bill? j. j o The Chairman. That is, to distribute the Chippewa funds? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. To ptorate theln. ^ , ,, . , • Mr. Meritt. Eeserving sufficient money to conduct the schools m the Chippewa country? ^j^x^j^'j. The Chairman. How much would be paid out of the tund?, Mr. Meritt. There would be paid out between $3,000,000 and $4,000,000. , , .,, ^, •■>..* ^u Senator Curtis. How does that agree with the provision of the treaty of 1889, by which we agreed that this money should be kept for 50 years for their benefit? 334 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, l'J20. The Chairman. I desire to say that I have no objection to it, but the ith of March is rapidly approaching, and that item will occasion a great deal of discussion. There will undoubtedly be an extra ses- sion in June or July, and I hope you will be in a position to wait until that time, because I myself would not know how to vote. I do not know whether we ought to distribute that fund of $5,000,000 or $6,000,000 now. Why should we do it? I am Aot in any sense opposed to it, but I do not know anything about it. The fact that the department does know about it inclined me that way, however. Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, we will not press that at ihis session. The Chairman. It is a serious matter, involving millions of dollars. Mr. James I. CoiTey. I will say that in our general council fbv several years back there has been a Tesolution adopted at every meet- ing asking for the prorating or distribution of this principal fund of the Chippewas. The Chippewa Indians desire it, for the reason that a great many of them are now destitute. They have no homes or anything of that kind, and nothing to work their allotments with. That is one of the thing's we desire more than anything else, so that they can use this money in establishing themselves on their allot- ments and to build homes. Mr. Meritt. It is very much needed. Senator McNart. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Meritt is willing to defer action until next session of Congress. The Chairman. Yes. There has -been so much testimony of :i variable kind before the committee. Senator La Follettb. Are there different factions here? Mr. Meritt. I think all of the factions are in favor of it. The Chairman. Are you in favor of it, Mr. Rogers? Mr. Rogers. The only thing that is not exactly clear to me is wliiit amount are they going to keep out for the support of our schools? Mr. Meritt. We would have to figure on that very carefully before stating the exact amount, but we have authority under existing law to use the Chippewa moneys for school purposes, and we will not use any more money for Chippewa school purposes than we now have authority to use under the existing law. Senator Curtis. Yes; but does not that act of 1889 provide tliat this money shall be put in the Treasury for 50 years, and one-half of the interest di^^lded pro rata in intreset payments, and one-fourtti be expended for school purposes? What are you going to do for schools after you use up this principal sum ? Mr. Meritt. We will reserve an amount out of this $6,000,000 Senator Curtis. Equal to one-fourth? Mr. Meritt. Which we believe will be sufficient to conduct these schools as long as they should be conducted by the Government, and we V5^ill come back next year and ask for specific authority to use a sufficient amount of that money reserved to continue those schools. It is a very simple matter of administration and legislation. Senator La Follette. How would it do, Mr. Meritt, to make such distribution now as would tide over until another session, to take care of those who are needy? Mr. Meritt. If the committee wishes that done it will be satis- factory to the department, but we prefer to close up this matter rather than to handle it by piecemeal, because these small amounts INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 335 keep up friction among the Indians, and they are not at all satisfied. We would make small payments to those Indians who are competent, who would spend that money, whereas if we paid all that they are entitled to receive they would use it for some beneficial purpose such' as the building of homes or buying of land or improvements of that character. There is no real objection to this legislation in any quarter as far as I know, and we would be glad to have it go in the bill. statement' of MR. BENJAMIN CASWELL. Mr. Caswell. Mr. Chairman, I think there are some objections to that ; that is, at least, from some of the White Earth people. Our understanding of the treaty — and I may say that I was old enough to be present ; I was 20 years old — is that the Indians under- stood the principal fund should not be prorated until the end of 50 years from that date. The money in the principal fund belongs to those people who will live at that time, at the end of 50 years, and some of us would not be living at that time. Some who are living now would be living then, and it will not be ours. If "we take it now, and if we should die before the end of that time, as to the Indians who exist then, I fear there will be some trouble made by those people. I think they will make some trouble, those who will not receive it at the end of that time, if it is prorated now. That is the position that some of us have. We expect this money to be prorated at the end of that time. •Mr. Meeitt. At the end of 50 years. Senator, half of these Indians will be dead and they will not get the benefit of the money. The Chaieman. What did the treaty provide, that it should not be distributed for 50 years ? Mr. Meeitt. The treaty provided that a certain amount of this money should be used for school purposes, and 50 years after the passage of the Nelson Act the remainder should be prorated among the tribe. Congress has seen the unwisdom of that legislation and has au- thorized a distribution of one-fourth of those funds, which was done two or three years ago in the Indian appropriation act. Senator Nugent. Was this a treaty by act of Congress? Was it an act of Congress, or was it simply a treaty ? Mr. Meeitt. It was an act of Congress based on an understanding with the Indians through a commission appointed by the President, but there is no question about the authority of Congress to distribute this money at any time it may see fit. That has been clearly shown by the decisions of the Supreme Court of the United States. Senator Nttgbnt. That matter was decided in a Supreme Court decision? , . , ^t t ttit u Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; and I cite what is known as the L United States Senate,. Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. G. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. The Chairman. The committee will come to order. We will now resume the consideration of the bill from the point where we left off yesterday. Minnesota. restoration of homes destroyed by fire — CHIPPEWA INDIANS. The Chairman. The item under consideration authorizes the Sec^ Tetary of the Interior to withdraw from the Treasury the sum of '$60,000 for the reconstruction of the homes of certain Chippewa In- dians which were destroyed by fire. ■ Mr. James Coffey. Mr. Chairman, I wish to say that there are several hundred Indians there who are in the very same circumstances with these others. The Chairman. I thought there were only 47 in the same circum- stances. We are talking about the Indians who have lost their homes by fire. Mr. Coffey. This relates to it very closely. i There are several hundred Indians in the very same circumstances now as those who lost their homes by fire. The Chairman. Did those others lose their homes by fire? Mr. Coffey. No, sir; they did not have anything to lose. They never got the benefits that these others had from their pine. Those who lost their homes by fire built up their homes from excessive bene- fits that they have received without authority of law, and now they are all equal in circumstances, practically, even though these men did lose their homes. ISTotv, these other Indians out of whose pockets you are going to take the money to rebuild the homes, have no funds themselves. , -r -,. ' The Chairman. It would be about $5,000 for each Indian, would Mr. Coffey. I have not figured that out, but those are the condi- . Senator Nugent. Then your contention is that if the homes are to be rebuilt for the people who were burned out, and those homes were 339 340 INDIAN APEEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. to be reestablished, there are hundreds of other Indians on this reser- vation who have no homes now ? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. In addition to those whose homes we build up ? Mr. CoFFET. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. And if they are going to take the money out of the tribal funds to rebuild the homes that were burned they should also take the money out of the tribal funds to rebuild homes of sev- eral other Indians. Mr. Coffey. That is it exactly. The Chairman. The clerk will read the proviso. (The provision was read as follows :) * A'nd provided further, That all expenditures hereunder shall be reimbursed to the tribe by the individuals benefited, from any moneys accruing to them on account of per capita, payments, or otherwise. Senator Cuetis. What is the previous provision ? (The provision referred to was read as follows:) The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to withdraw from the Treasury of the United States the sum of $60,000, or so much ttiereof as may be necessary, of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, and to expend or pay the same, under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe, for the erection or purchase of homes for Chippewa Indians in said State whose homes were destroyed by forest fires during the year, 1918, to be Immediately available, and to remain available until expended: Provided, That said sum may be used for material and labor for the construction of such houses ; for the purchase of portable houses ; or to pay for the erection of houses under contract, said contract to be executed or approved by the super- intendent, who shall also inspect and approve all work done or houses erected or purchased hereunder before making payment therefor: Provided further. That not to exceed $1,000 may be used for the purchase or construction of any one home, and, Pravided further. That not to exceed 5 per cent of the amount esxpended may be used for administrative purposes. The Chairman. Are you ready for the question on the proviso? The other has been adopted. (The question being taken on the proviso, it was rejected.) RED LAKE FOREST RESERVE. Senator Curtis. Senator Nelson said that he was satisfied with that amendment provided it was reduced to $10,000. The Chairman. The question is on agreeing to the Nelson provi- sion, striking out "$50,000" and inserting "$10,000." Senator Curtis. The best plan is to strike out the House provision and insert that instead. Th§ Chairman. Without objection, the House provision on this subject will be stricken out and the committee amendment inserted. Senator Curtis. I ask that that be read, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. The provision will be read. (The provision referred to was read as follows:) That not to exceed $10,000 of the fund derived from the sale of timber from the Red Lake Indian Forest, Minn., under authority of the act of May 18, 1916 (39 Stat. L., 137),. may be expended by the Secretary of the Interior in payment of the expenses authorized 'by said act : Provided, That hereafter all proceeds of sales of timber products manufactured at the Red Lake Agency sawmill, or so much thereof as may be necessary, may be available for the ■ expenses of logging, booming, towing, and manufacturing timber at such mill. (The amendment was agreed to.) indian appkopeiation bill, 1920. 341 Washington. NISQUAUjT reservation ^RETURN OF LANDS. The Chairman. There is a representative of the War Department here, whom we summoned from the War Department with respect to the Nisqually Eeservation. STATEMENT OF COL. EDWIN A. HICKMAN, UNITED STATES ARMY. The Chairman. Colonel, it appears to the committee that the War Department has purchased a part of a certain Indian reservation in Washington, and that it is now part of Camp Lewis? Col. Hickman. Yes, sir; it was acquired by transfer from Pierce County, Wash., which had already acquired that reservation. The Chairman. You say Pierce County, Wash., had acquired it? Col. Hickman. Yes, sir; and transferred it to the United States Government. The Chairman. Have you a map on which you can show that sit- uation ? Col. Hickman. I have [producing map]. The Chairman. I would like to ask you this : It is not an Indian reservation if it is owned by Pierce County ? Col. Hickman. Pierce County acquired it from the Indians in the same maimer as they did all the other land connected with that area about the American Lake. The Nisqually Eeservation is this orange- tolored part down in the comer here [indicating]. - The Chairman. Explain the other colors. Col. Hickman. As to the other colors, as far back as December 2, 1916, the Secretary of War entered into an agreement with certain representatives of Pierce County, Wash., whereby Pierce County ifas to donate approximately 70,000 acres of land about American Lake to the United States Government in fee simple as a maneuver- ng.and training ground, provided that the Secretary of War would igree to maintain on that reservation troops as, a training center, and in the strength of that agreement the State of Washington passed a aw authorizing Pierce County to bond itself for $2,000,000 with Fhich to purchase that land. The parts in red, on the water front, were as a rule exceedingly 'aluable property and were excluded from the purchase. By not •uying that water front and suburban property, and these highly improved special farms, they were omitted from the purchase and practically the area in yellow, the Nisquially lands, were acquired W Pierce County, Wash., under authority of the legislature of that State. , The Chairman. What is the area of this orange tract of land ac- pred from Pierce County, in acres? Col. Hickman. It was originally intended to be approximately ?0,OOO acres, but a limit was placed on it as to what Pierce County [oould do for the amount of money appropriated, which was $2,000,- 000 and it was eventually found that when Pierce County started in condemnation proceedings that same price ran up and the over- lead charges increased and they were unable to buy the 70,000 acres Wth the $2,000,000 appropriated. 342 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL, 1920. The Chairman. How much did the War Department buy? Col. Hickman. Approximately in the neighborhood of 55,000 acres, including the Nisqually land ; that is, Pierce County bought it with a view to transferring it. The Chairman. Were any Indians living on this tract of land when the War Department took it ? Col. Hickman. I understand so. The Chairman. What became of those Indians ? Col. Hickman. I understood they were removed away after the lands were bought. The Chairman. Did they have any houses, with fences arousid them, or corrals, or barns, or anything of that sort ? Col. Hickman. I know as a matter of information, not having- been on the ground physically, that they did have. They lived there as Indians do live. Senator Fernald. How many Indians were there ?_ Col. Hickman. I think the number was small ; I think the number- of men who bought was small, possibly — about 50. The Chairman. You say the number of men who bought. From the Indians? Col. Hickman. The number of men who bought the land from the Indians. The Chairman. Who paid the Indians? Col. Hickman. Pierce County paid the Indians; they paid the- money into the Interior Department for such disposition as they thought proper to make of it. Senator McNaet. How old is that reservation ? Col. Hickman. I can not say that. I imagine it has been there for some years. Senator McNaet. Was it not previously used as a inilitary reser- vation ? Col. Hickman. Yes, sir; American Lake. I had maneuvers at American Lake in 1910, and it had been used a year or two prior to- that as a maneuver site. I should say it came into existence as a training area about 1908. Senator McNaet. The Stats never obtained title to the reserva- tion, did it — ^the State of Washington? Col. Hickman. Pierce County, Wash. Senator McNaet. When did it take formal title to this reserva- tion? Col. Hickman. I came to the department in May, and I think the- transaction had been completfed prior to that time, in May of 1918, jJossibly January or February. Senator McNaet. Was it conveyed by fee to the Indians or ceded by the Government to Pierce County ? The Chairman. I understand Pierce County, Wash., paid into the Interior Department, or the Indian Bureau of the Interior Depart- ment, the money value of that land as agreed upon. Senator McNart. With whom ? Col. Hickman. With whom was the agreement made? Senator McNart. Yes. Col. Hickman. The agreement was made between the Interior Department and Pierce County, Wash. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 343 The Chairman. I would like to ask you a question, Mr. Meritt. How did you acquire, or Pierce County acquire this reservation? Mr. Meritt. My understanding is that Pierce County acquired this reservation by court proceedings. Col. Hickman. By condemnation? The Chairman. The county went into court and condemned the land and took it away from the Indians? Mr. Meritt. They acquired it by condemnation proceedings with the approval of the Indian Bureau, and with the further understand- . ing that the Indian Bureau would come to Congress and ask for the difference in price that was paid into the court and the estimated value of the land taken from the Indians. The Chairman. I apprehend that these Indians there were fish- ermen. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir ; some of them. The Chairman. Where are you going to put these Indians? They have been fishermen for himdreds of years. Where are you going to put them? Mr. Meritt. We are now buying land for them out of the award- There were about 25 families involved. The Chairman. Where will you buy the land? Mr. Meritt. Near their former homes. ' The Chairman. They had 77,000 acres, did they not? Col. Hickman. No, sir ; not the Indians. This whole area is 77,000 acres. Senator Nugent. What is the area of the Nisqually Keservation ? Mr. Meritt. The Nisqually Reservation was a treaty reservation — - the treaty of Medicine Creek, of December 26, 1854. Senator Cttrtis. How did you apply for authority to convey it to the county? Mr. Meritt. The county went into the court and acquired it by condemnation proceedings' Senator Cubtis. How could they do that? They have no right to go into court and condemn Indian property. Mr. Meritt. The court so held, and there was an immediate need for this property for Government purposes, and because of the fact that the war was on and it was an urgency matter we reluctantly consented to the transaction with the understanding that we would come to Congress and ask for this difference in the value of this land. Senator Nugent. How many acres are there in the Nisqually Ees- ervation, approximately? Senator Curtis. Three thousand two hundred acres of that land was taken. ^ . , t^t- n -r. Mr. Meritt. Approximately 4,718 acres in the Nisqually Keser- vation, according to our figures. „,,-,-, , , n Senator Nugent. How niany acres of that land were taken under this condemnation proceeding? Mr Meritt. Three thbusand two hundred acres. Senator Nugent. When did the Indians acquire title to that prop- erty? Was it by reason of this treaty? ^ i .i. . ^ s, Mr Meritt. They acquired part of this property by the treaty, of Medicine Creek, dated December 26, 1854, volume 10, page 1132. ■ Senator Nugent. How much of it? 344 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. Meeitt. They acquired additional land by Executive order of January 28, 1857. Senator Nugent, How much did they acquire under the treaty? Mr. Meeitt. That information I have not before me. Senator Nugent. Then, as I understand it, to all intents and pur- poses the Government, or the Indian Bureau, consented to this con- demnation proceeding? Mr. Meeitt. There was a conditional consent. Senator Nugent. There was no opposition on the part of the In- dian Bureau, on behalf of the Indians, to the condemnation proceed- ings, was there? ^ Mr. Meeitt. We objected at first, but the menibers of the Board of Indian Commissioners were in Washington at the time and they telephoned the Indian Bureau that, in view of all the circumstances, this matter should be closed up ; that this land could be used for war purposes ; and that the proposition was reasonable. Senator Nugent. Then, ultimately the Indian Bureau consented to this condemnation proceeding and the taking of this land, did it ? Mr. Meeitt. We conditionally consented — reluctantly. • Senator Nugent. What was the condition? Mr. Meeitt. That we would come to Congress and ask for the dif- ference agreed to by the court, which would be paid to these Indians, and the amount that we found they were entitled to receive after very careful investigation by one of our representatives. Senator Nugent. Were the Indians consulted with respect to their wishes concerning this transfer, or not ? Mr. Meeitt. They were consulted to a certain extent. Senator Nugent. Did they consent that this reservation be in- cluded ? Mr. Meeitt. I do not think that their written consent was given. Senator Nugent. Then, as I understand it, so far as the Indians were concerned, the treaty was set aside, aiU rights that they had ac- quired under that treaty set aside, and this land was taken from them with the ultimate consent of the Indian Bureau with the understand- ing that they were to receive a certain sum of money in lieu of their lands, is that it? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator McNaet. Was an action at law instituted for the condem- nation of this land by Pierce County ? Mr. Meeitt. There is a provision of law on the statute books which enables the Government to acquire land by condemnation proceedings. Senator McNaet. That does not answer my question, Mr. Meritt. I asked you if Pierce County actually started condemnation pro- ceedings to this land ? Mr. Meeitt. That is my understanding. Of course, this was han- dled in thp courts of Washington, and it was handled largely by representatives of the War Department. Senator McNaet. And a decree by condemnation was entered transferring title from the Indians to Pierce County ; is that your knowledge of it? Mr. Meeitt. With the understanding that the land was to be used by the War Department for war purposes. Senator McNaet. What verdict did the court enter in the matter of damages? INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 345 Mr. Meeitt. The total damages were agreed to at $75,840. Senator McNart. The title to that property rested, part of it^ ia the alleged action of the Government, did it not? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator McNaey. And the usufruct for the Indians? Mr. Meeitt. That is true. Senator McNary. Was the United States made a party, if you Jmow, in this inimical action? Mr. Meeitt. I think the United States was represented by the United States attorney. Senator Feenald. I am obliged to be excused, Mr. Chairman, and I would like to be counted for a quorum, and leave my vote with Senator Curtis. The Chaieman. That order will be entered. Senator McNary. How much money .was paid into the Treasury on behalf of the Indians ? Mr. Meeitt. My understanding is that all the money has been paid, amounting to $75,840. Senator McNary. That has been paid to the Secretary of the In- terior for the benefit of the Nisqually Indians? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator McNaey. And now you are coming here seeking a sum in excess thereof? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator McNary. Where would that sum come from? Mr. Meeitt. We are asking for the difference between $75,840 and $93,750, which amounts to $20,670. The difference comes in here — we sent a representative to appraise that land, and the total ap- praisement of our representative amounted to $90,760. The com- promise figure totals $75,840. Senator McNaey. I thought a court and 12 jurors determined the amount of damages the Indians sustained by reason of this con- demnation. Mr. Meritt. I would not like to give a statement regarding the method of procedure, because that was a matter for the courts and the War Department. The Chairman. Now, Colonel, do you know whether or not the War Department still requires or needs the use of this land? Col. Hickman. It is my opinion that the War Department needs it as long as the reservation is being maintained there as a training station. It gives length to the situation for artillery training and artillery fire. The Chairman. Now, these Indians — 15 families — have sent in a petition; they wish the land back, and their representative states that it was the understanding that their patriotism was appealed to, and that they were to get off that land and let the United States Government have it during the war, but now that the war is over they wish their ancestral place — ^their old home. That is what their representative says. He is Mr. Frank lyall. Mr. lyall, you are not a Nisqually Indian, are you? Mr. Iyall. No, sir ; I represent the Cowlitz. _ The Chairman. But you know about this sitiiation, do you? Mr. Iyall. These papers have been sent to me since 1 have been liere. 346 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BIIiL, 1920. Senator Curtis. How many Indians were actually living on this reservation, or this part taken by the War Department? Mr. Iyavl.. About 17 families. Senator Curtis. Actually living on it? Mr. Itall. Actually living there all the time. Senator Curtis. .How many allotments are there on it? Mr. Itall. I could not say ; but some of these are mixed bloods— mixed-blood girls married to white men and running dairies, and so forth. Senator Nugent. How many Indians would there by there alto- gether? You say there are 17 families. How many Indian people? Mr. Iyall. Between 40 and 50, 1 should judge, at a guess. * The Chairman. Did they get their money? Did these heads of families get their money for this land? Mr. Iyall. They have not. It is in trust in the Indian Depart- ment. The Chairman. They have not even had the money, then? Mr. Itall. Some of them have. I think two families bought homes, with the authority of the Indian Bureau. Mr. Meritt. We are in process now of buying additional lands for those Indians with this money. Senator Nugent. When was this reservation taken over, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. Last spring or summer. Col. Hickman. I would say that I came to the department in May, and this was one of the first things that came to my attention on arriving here. The Chairman. If these Nisqually Indiajis were given equally as good land on the lake front or river front or the ocean front there — is it the ocean front? Col. Hickman. No, sir; it is the Nisqually Eiver. The Chairman. If they were given an equal area of land on the river, or somewhere else, would that be satisfactory to them. Mr. Itall. It is impossible to satisfy the Indians anywhere but on that area, as far as satisfaction is concerned. They have lived there for hundreds of years, generation after generation, and they make their living on that river. ' The Chairman. And they want this particular tract of land ? Mr. Iyall. They want this particular piece of land. They were perfectly willing to give up possession during the war. I have a petition here that was sent to me last year and I submitted the propo- sition to Mr. Meritt to get around it by renting it to the department during war time, but they were defeated by this condemnation. Senator Nugent. I understood you to say that these families have no homes now and are living under trees ? Mr. Iyall. Yes, sir ; some of them are. They have moved across the river, on the Thurston County side of the reservation, and made camps there with other Indians until they could get the other place to move to. Mr. Meritt. My understanding is that they are living with other Indians. Mr. Iyall. Yes, sir; they are. The Chairman. What became of their houses, barns, and so forth? Mr. Itall. They are right there. INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 347 . The Chairman. The War Department has not taken them away ; they are still there and in good order? Mr. Iyall: Yes, sir. Some of them are shot through with holes, or something like that, but from what I understand from the In- dians-K)f course I do not live there and do not pretend to know all about it — the War Department used that ground more before they got possession of the reservation than they did afterwards. From what the Indians have said, they used it three days after they moved off of it. Col. Hickman. The land is being used as a troop-maneuvering ^ound whenever necessary. The Chairman. It is part of your terrain ? Col. Hickman. Yes, sir ; it is part of the terrain. There is a back area there of probably 8 or 10 iniles. The Chairman. How wide is the river there? Mr. Iyali;. It is a very small river. The Chairman. About 100 yards. Col. Hickman. About 50 yards. The Chairman. Do boats come up that river ? Col. Hickman. No, sir; nothing except canoes. Senator Nugent. After these troops have been demobilized. Colo- nel, and in view of the cantonments existing in other sections of the country, do you know of any particular reason why the War Depart- inent should require that 55,000 acres of land there, including the 3,000 acres taken from the Nisquallys, for maneuvering purposes ? Col. Hickman. No, sir ; but I regard that as one of the finest maneu- vering areas in the United States. Senator Nugent. That may be true. I presume that is true of all of them. Col. Hickman. It came to the Government without cost other than as a donation from that county. There was no cost involved. Senator Nugent. And they have had 40,000 or 50,000 men there, or more, during the war ? Col. Hickman. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. Now, suppose, for the sake of argument, that the troops are demobilized and that it will be used, if at all, as a maneu- vering ground, say, for the National Guard, in the future; do you think it will be necessary that the War Department still retain those 3,000 acres of land taken from the Nisqually Indians? Col. Hickman. I do, if they hope to train all classes of troops of Artillery there. Senator Nugent. Suppose there were only a few thousand men ? _ Col. Hickman. It is a question of what armament they use. If it is Infantry, they could stay off, possibly; if it is Artillery, it is nec- sary. It would limit the value of the reservation by cutting down its dimensions to that extent. The Chairman. Do you desire to say anything further about it, Colonel? Col. Hickman., I am not positive whether that land was condemned by Pierce County or whether it was acquired through agreement. My understanding of the case was that a military board was appointed to appraise its value, and that value, as I recall it, without going into the details, was approximatelj $55,000 for that area. The Indian Office appraised its value and came to an estimate in the neighbor- 348 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. hood of $90,000 or $92,000, and a compromise was reached and the difference was split, and approximately $75,000 was money that Pierce County eventually transferred to the Interior Department for the acquisition of that land. When I asked the chairman a moment ago to ask this man a question, it was with reference to that point as to whether or not the land was actually condemned by the courts or whether it was secured by this purchase? Senator McNaet. There is no question that it was not. The Chairman. You may ask him whatever question you desire, Colonel. Col. Hickman. Mr. lyall, was the land actually condemned in the courts or was it bought? Mr. Iyall. I could not answer that. Col. Hickman. I am not positive on that point myself. It is my opinion, however, that it was done by mutual agreement without •condemnation proceeding. Senator McNart. Certainly the county would not have jurisdic- tion in that matter. Mr. Meritt. The matter was in the courts, but there was a com- promise agreement reached on the basis of $75,840, with the under- standing that the Interior Department would appeal to Congress for the differencebetween the compromise figure of $75,840 and the amount of damages appraised by the Indian Bureau, totaling $93,760, and that is what we are asking in the item of legislation now before the committee. Senator McNart. As has been said by Mr. Meritt, there is a differ- ence of approximately $20,000 between the sum actually conveyed by the War Department to the tribal funds of the Indians and the appraisement of the Interior Department. Mr. Meritt. It was Pierce County, Wash. The War Department ■did not expend the funds there. That $2,000,000 appropriation came from Pierce County, which the State of Washington set aside for that purpose. Senator McNart. Now, there is a difference in the appraisement of value made by the War Department and that of the Interior Depart- ment or the Bureau of Indian Affairs that approximates $20,000. Col. Hickman. No, sir ; it is more than that ; it is between $55,000 and $90,000; something like that. The War Department estimate was in the neighborhood of $55,000, was it not? Mr. Meritt. The Senator is referring to the figure finally agreed to — the compromise price of $75,840. Senator McNart. The point now is that it involves about $20,000, which is the difference, as I understand, between the appraisement of the War Department and that of the Secretary of the Interior ? Col. Hickman. No, sir ; that is the difference between what Pierce County paid Senator McNart. Well, it is a matter of detail. The thing we are looking to now is whether the Indians should have $20,000 more or the return of the reservation. Mr. Meritt made the statement a few days ago, which I was interested in hearing, that they made a very much more careful appraisement; they had the facilities and agencies that were trained and schooled and had a wider experience in making appraisement of Indian lands, and a great many things were overlooked by the War Department, and i think that is the UTDIA.^ APPEOPKIATIOIT BILL, 1920. 349 reason the committee wanted you to come here and give us an idea as to what entered mto this matter in making the appraisement of the propertywhich is taken from the Indians— whether it really was, as Senator ;Walsh has said, the office of the War Department or the Interior Department. Mr. Meeitt. I may say that I was trying to convey to the com- mittee the impression that the inspection or the investigation made by the Indian Bureau took into consideration the peculiar location of this land for use by the Indians and the fact that they had been using this land for a great many years not only for farming and dairying but for fishing purposes, and in appraising this land we took into consideration all those details with which we are thoroughly famihar and with which the representatives of Pierce County were not familiar. Senator McNaey. That is what I wanted to ask. Col. Hickman. That reservation, as I understand it, was appraised by a board of officials appointed for that purpose, and I am sure that they gave it their best attention, as they saw it. I do not believe they took into consideration the question of fishing rights of the inhabi- tants of the reservation unless that matter was called to their at- tention, and whether it was or not I do not know. Senator McNaey. Before our entrance into the war you did not find the necessity for the possession of this Nisqually Eeservation for Army purposes, did you ? Col. Hickman. As I recall, it was used a great deal. Senator McNaey. While the Indians were still" living there? Col. Hickman. Yes, sir; that is, with their consent, on payment of damages where there fences were cut and the troops entered. Senator McNary. Prior to that time a cantonment was established there ? Col. Hickman. Yes, sir. There is no doubt that in every series of maneuvers held on that area the troops were on that land. Senator McNary. And you think it is rather necessary that the Government should retain possession of that part of it? Col. Hickman. I think it completes a well-rounded project in that location. Senator McNaey. As a representative of the department, would ^ou protest against the returning of the property to the Indians who formerly owned it? Senator Nugent. And to whom it was given by treaty ? Col. Hickman. I think the men who removed from that land would lave their homes replaced, so as to suit them as best they could. There is no question of that. Senator McNaet. That would mean the abandonment of the prop- irty by the Government? Col. Hickman. I mean other land. Senator Nugent. You mean land in lieu of this should be granted Isewhere ? Col. Hickman. I do, yes, sir. The Chairman. The objection to that is that human nature is a ery strange thing; we all have a strain of it, and it is peculiar to lie Indians that a barren rock which is his own property, is prefer- ble in his mind' to any land that other people may be able to culti- ate. That is true of the Indians and it is somewhat true of us. I 350 INDIAIJ^ APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. do not know why it is, but it is true. The Indian prefers to go bacj to the wilds, even though it is barren, and he dies frequently fron nostalgia or homesickness if taken away, it makes no difference i you put him in the orange groves of Florida. If youjtook severa thousand Indians from Arizona where you could not raise anythinij but a disturbance and put them them into the orange groves o Florida they would die of homesickness. And in large measure w,i are all like that. Senator McNaey. That is a very high tribute to Arizona. The Chaikman. Some parts of it are that way. In other parts i is just as smiling as Florida. That is the objection to granting then lieu lands elsewhere. " Senator Nugent. They do not want it. The Chaiejian. They would rather have their poor land thai rich land somewhere else. I think it would be better to pass a sepa rate resolution directing the Interior Department to reacquire al this land for the benefit of the Indians — a joint resolution. Tlia would be my judgment. I do not want to criticize anybody. I thinl the War Department has to meet their difficulties or they could no ^et along, and doubtless the Interior Department felt that it wai doing the best thing for the country when they did it, and doubtlesi the Indians believed they would get their land back, even if they neve: thought they would get it back after having been away from it but this homesickness seized them and they want it back; that ii natural. Senator Nttgent. This Indian has said that they were entirely willing that the Government should have that land during the perioi of the war. The Chairman. Yes. Is that all you wish to say, Mr. lyall ? Mr. Iyall. Yes, sir. The Chairman. You have stated that you represent the Cowliti Tribe? Mr. Iyall. Yes, sir. The Chairman. And you filed a petition in this matter yesterday which is in the record. Senator McNary. Mr. Chairman, I understand that the Hous( omitted this item from the bill — that is the item of difference be tween the estimate of the War Department and the estimate of th( Interior Department as to the amount of money that eventualb should go to the Indians. The Chairman. Yes. Senator McNary. I suggest that we also omit from the bill thii item, and that the committee direct the Commissioner of Indiai Affairs to prepare an amendment authorizing the Secretary of thi Interior and the Secretary of War to arrange for a transfer of thi property back to the Indians and report to Congress at its nex session. The Chairman. I think something like that should be done. I there is no objection, we will leave out the item. Does that mee your views. Senator Nugent? Senator Nugent. Yes. indian appeopeiation bill, 1920. 351 Oregon, klamath reserva'non trust patents. Senator McNary. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment to this bill which was proposed by one of my colleagues, a Member of the House, Mr. Sinnott, representing the second district of Oregon. I would like to have the bill read by the clerk and the report of Hon. Franklin K. Lane, Secretary of the Intetior. (The bill and report were read, and are here printed in full, as follows:) That where the issuance of trust patents for certain allotment selections on the Klamath Reservation, in Oregon, has been withheld for the reason that • the lands so selected were found to be more valuable for their timber than for agricultural or grazlnjj purposes, the Secretary of the Interior, in his dis- tretion, is authorized to confirm such selections and to cause trust patents to l)e issued therefor under existing laws. The Chairman. I have a letter here from the Secretary of the Inte- rior, dated April 25, 1917, addressed to Hon. Charles D. Carter, chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, House of Eepresentatives. Do you want that to go into the record ? Senator McNary. Yes ; I would like to have it inserted. (The letter referred to is here printed in full, as follows:) Department or the Intemos, Washington, April 25, 1917. My Deab Mb. Caktee : On June 20, 1900, a schedule containing 1,179 allotments was approved to the Indians of the Klamath Reservation, Oreg., under the pro- visions of the act of February 8, 1887 (24 Stat. L., 388), as amended, which provides for allotments of land chiefly valuable for agricultural and grazing purposes. This schedule was subsequently revised and an amended schedule covering 951 allotments was approved on December 11, 1909. Further allot- ments were made on the reservation under authority contained in the act of May 27, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 245-260), which allotments (392) were approved on March 2, 1911. The agricultural and grazing areas of the Klamath Reservation have been estimated at 220,000 acres, all of which land has practically been allotted. The remaining lands of the reservation, approximately 772,000 acres, have been classified as timber. Many of the Indians of the reservation, however, under a misapprehension of their rights, selected and improved timber areas for allot- ment purposes, which selections were later suspended, inasmuch as existing law (act Feb. 8, 1887, as amended) did not specifically authorize the allotment of timberlands. Timber sales have been made over a large part of the lands covered by these suspended selections, and proceeds of sale are being held undistributed pending the confirmation of the allotments and the issuance of trust patents. In some of the cases allottees have died and a distribution of funds can not be made until the heirs are determined, which can not be done until thrissuance of trust patent. There are about 100 cases now Pending of this character. These conditions necessarily hinder the Indians m malsmg satisfactory progress toward independence and self-support. InSmuch therefore, as these selection? appear to have been made m good faitti Md as thert is practically on surplus agricultural and grazing land that St^e utllLed for the purpose of reallotment, I am firmly convinced that tte selections as made should be confirmed and trust patents be issued there- tor To m^etthi" situation I am inclosing a draft of legislation which it s earnestwToped may be given favorable consideration by the Congress at this Sn in orfer ttiat the allotment claims of all interested parties may be Sled'and such other assistance given them as may be for their best interests. Cordially, yours, Franklin K. Lane, Secretary. Hon. Charles D. Cabteb, Chairman Committee on Indian Affmrs, vnaii mwo v/ ^ouse of Representatives. 352 INTilA^ APPEOPEIATtON BILL, 1920. The Chairman. Without objection the item will be agreed to. (The item was agreed to.) CERTAIN CLAIMS AGAINST THE INDIANS. Senator Nugent. Mr. Chairman, I understand it has been deter mined that no claims shall go on the bill. Am I correct in that ? Senator Curtis. Yes ; no claims over $200. The Chairman. There is a claim here which was referred to b] Senator Gore. The claimant is William R. Mcintosh. Shall tha claim, presented against the Choctaws, go on the bill ? ■• ^ Senator Curtis. I have no objection to its going on as it is simplj the payment of a salary which w^ have to authorize. (The item was agreed to.) The Chairman. Then it is the consensus of opinion that we keej other claims off of the bill, other than those against tribal funds. Minnesota. claims of mille lac band, chippewa indians. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM G. HENDERSON, ESO., ATTORNEY Al LAW, WASHINGTON, D. C. Mr. Henderson. Mr. Chairman, may I say that the suggestion was made the other day when the claim of the Mille Lac chiefs, which is just like that which Senator Gore has submitted, was being consid- ered, the suggestion was made that if later on the committee decided to allow such claims to go in the bill that this should be mentioned again to the committee. It is a claim that Mr. Meritt has already considered, and I think 1 can say in a very few words what the department's views are in re- gard to the matter. It is a fund that has been ordered paid or au- thorized to be paid by the General Council of the Chippewas o1 Minnesota. Senator Curtis. The trouble is, as I understand it, there was a con- troversy over that, some of them saying it should be paid and then were other claims pending that there was a fight over. Mr. Henderson. I do not know about the other claims. Senator Curtis. It was suggested by someone that there were othei claims. If you put one on you will have to put all on. Mr. Henderson. I am not prepared to say anything about the othei claims, but as to this claim there is no controversy. Senator Curtis. But if you put on that claim you would have t'c put the others on. Mr. Henderson. I would be glad to have the claim of anybody likt that put on the bill. Senator Curtis. Do these Indians who are to pay this money saj that it ought to be paid ; are they agreed that it should be paid ? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir; there is here in the item the authoritj of the General Council of the Chippewas of Minnesota in two sue cessive annual sessions that this should be paid. The authorizatioi was issued, I think, without any controversy. I have had an acquaint ance with the subject since 1899, and I have had close association witl ■ INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 353 these people, and I know there was recoA'ered nearly $800,000, all of which goes back to those two men. The Chairman. You presented this to us yesterday. We never heard of it before yesterday. Mr. Henderson. There is a bill that includes this claim and several others, but inasmuch as there was a question or controversy about some of the other items, this bill was submitted as a separate item for the appropi'iation bill. These old men have come here at very great ex- expense to themselves. One of them has made as many as 14 trips to Washington on behalf of his people in this case. It has cost him, out- side of his time, a very large amount of individual expense. Senator La Follette. Why is this claim not quite as meritorious as the one put on at the suggestion of Senator Gore ? It is to be paid! out of the Indian funds and the Indians want to pay it, as I under- stand. Is there anybody here who thinks it ought not to be paid — any Chippewa representatives of either faction ? Mr. CoFEET. That was agreed to be paid at the general council at two different sessions. Senator La Follette, They have passed upon it twice and ap- prove it ? Mr. CoEFET. Yes, sir. THE BEAULEATJ AND FAIRBANKS CLAIMS. Senator Curtis. How about this claim of Mrs. Beauleau and Mr. Fairbanks ? Mr. Carl. I will say that Mr. Fairbanks loaned the money to bring this suit, and this is only a part of the money that he asks be repaid him again. Mr. Coffey. That is entirely out of the question. The Indians be- lieve that the Fairbanks clajm has already been paid by Mr. Beauleau. It is a transaction between Fairbanks and Beauleau, two individuals,, and it does not concern the Indians one particle. When those men vere prosecuting the Mille Lac case, Mr. Fairbanks claims to have ijianed Gus BeaiSeau $3,000, and now he comes in and puts in a claim for $5,000. They were here two years ago this winter, and Beauleau got his pay for prosecuting the claim. I'airbanks was to be remuner- ated out of Beaulieu's pay. The Chairman. Do 1 understand you that Mr. Beauleau was to pay Mr. Fairbanks ? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Is that your understandmg? Mr. Coffey. That is the way we understand it. They were both here in the city together the day they were paid, and I was here my- self, and after that was settled, the next day or two, Fairbanks went home and we never heard about it until after Gus Beauleau died the next summer, and the next fall after that Fairbanks came up with a $5 000 claim against the Chippewas on that same proposition. Senator Curtis. Then the only claim that there is any dispute about is that of the two old chiefs? i . ., ■ 4^ ^- ^ .^^ The Chairman. The item will be read for the information o± the committee. 106080—19 ^23 354 ' INDIAN APPEOPEIATIOM" BILL, 1920. (The item referred to was read, as follows :) That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and lie hereby Is, directed to pay out of any money in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of th« Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota, proceeds of the final judgment ob- tained in the Court of Claims against the United States in case numbered thirty thousand four hundred and forty-seven, entitled : " The Mille Lac Band of Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota versus The United ^States," the following sums : To Wah-we-yea-oumlg and Ain-dus-o-geshig, Mille Lac chiefs, each $5,000; to Jle-ge-zee, a Mille Lac chief, $500; to the heirs of Go-gee, a Mille Lac chief, $500 ; to the heirs of Nay-gwa-nay-be-ke-wain-zee, a Mille Lac <;hief, $500, upon the execution by each of a receipt in full for all claims and demands against the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, or any band thereof, for services rendered and money expended in connection with the preparatioruoi prosecution of the said case, the sums hereby appropriated to be immediately tivailable. The Chairman. You are familiar with that item, are you? Mr. Coffey. The last three are for $500; there are ohly two at $5,000. The Chairman. There is one for $5,000 and three for $500. Mr. CorrEY. Two Indians received $5,000 each. Senator Nugent. Is there any dispute with respect to these claims ? Mr. Coffey. No; they are all right. Senator Nijgent. But there is a dispute with respect to the Beau- leau and Fairbanks matter? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator Nugent. In order to bring the matter to a determination, Mr.- Chairman, I move that the claims of the parties whose names have been read, two in the sum of $5,000 each and three in the sum of $500 each, be placed on this bill, and that the Beauleau and Fair- banks claims be investigated by the subcommittee that goes to the Chippewa country this summer for the purpose of an investigation of those matters and makes a report. Senator La Follette. Let me suggest that you separate your mo- tion. I know nothing about the other two matters, but it is possible that there may be something to be said about that. I see some one standing at the foot of the table, and there may be some other in- formation that we would like to consider before we take the action that you suggest with reference to the second matter. The payment of these claims, covered by this amendment, is not allied at all or connected with the Beauleau and Fairbanks matter, and why should we not just pass upon this amendment? Senatot Nugent. That is entirely satisfactory to me. The Chairman. You modify your motion to that effect ? Senator Nugent. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Then the question is first as to agreeing to the Eimendment contenlplated by this 'item ? (The amendment was agreed to.) The Chairman. Now we will take up the Beauleau and Fair- banks claims. This is Mrs. Beauleau, is it ? Mrs. Beauleau. Yes, sir. STATEMENT OF MRS. ELLA H. BEAULEAU, OF MINNEAPOLIS, MINN. The Chairman. You are the widow of Mr. Gus Beauleau ? Mrs. Beauleau. I am the widow of Gus H. Beauleau. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 355 The Chairman. And you say that Mr. Beauleau had a claim, or his estate has ? Mrs. Beauleatj. He had a claim against the Mille Las Indians. He was their attorney and counsellor for many years, and he received $18,000 at the time these other attorneys received $20,000. I have a claim of $5,000— they put it in at $5,000— and why it is objected to by Mr. Henderson I do not know. The Chairman. I do not understand quite yet what services were rendered by Mr. Beauleau after he was paid $18,000. Did he render additional service? Mrs. Beauleau. Mr. Beauleau was an attorney for over 30 years, and their counsellor ; he did everything for them, and I have papers here to show it. The Chairman. But the $5,000 claim, does that arise on what we call in the law a quantum meruit? Do you assume that $5,000 is a fair fee? Mrs. Bbauijeau. It is a fair fee. The Chairman. That is your idea of it? Mrs. Beauleau. That is what I knaw to be a fact. The Chairman. Of course Mr. Beauleau is dead. Mrs. Beauleau. Yes, sir. The Chairman. And before he died did he tell you, or the Indians, that $5,000 was due him? Mrs. Beauleau. He told me that there was $28,000 due him, but these Indians had put him in for only $5,000. I have papers and letters of Mr. Beauleau's to show that he had this money due him for services rendered these Chippewa Indians. Senator Curtis. Who fixed the $18,000 and when? , Mrs. Beauleau. I do not know. I know that Mr. Henderson and the other attorneys got $20,000 each. There was $100,000 paid to them and my husband got but $18,000, and when he died he left me without anything. This Nicholson Lumber Co. has taken everything from him, and also some of his partners', who were in business with ihim at White Earth. The Chairman. Are you able to state what work Mr. Beauleau did ? Mrs. BEAifLEAu. He did their constant work. The Chairman. Do you know what particular work he did after he was paid $18,000, and how long the authorization ran? Mrs. Beauleau. It was through him that they got this $712,000 appropriated to them. It was through my husband's efforts, which tW will testify to themselves. Senator La Follette. Do I understand that the Indians agreed that $5,000 should be^paid to you? Mrs. Beauleau. Yes, sir. Senator La Follette. You have had a settlement with them on that basis, have you ? Mrs. Beauleau. Yes, sir; that is what they agreed to give me. Senator La Follette. And you have agreed to take that instead of the $10 000 that you claim was due in order to make full payment for your husband's services? , -r t Mrs. Beauleau. I have had to do that because the Indians wished it, and I have accepted it. 356 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator La Follette. Might I inquire whether all the Indian present agreed to that ? I understand that all the factions are her presented. Are there any who are not? Mr. John W. Carl. Last year .we were instructed by the executiv committee of the Chippewa Council — and there was no dispute as ti what constituted the General Council of Minnesota Indians at tha time — ^by a resolution which was passed naming the sum to be paid and we had a bill introduced naming the estate of Gus H. Beauleai $6,000, then Fairbanks and the chiefs. Senator La Foij.ettb. Ben Fairbanks also got $5,000? Mr. Cael. Yes, sir; $5,000, and the chiefs who are enumeratec in this statement that has just been adppted, but it was objected* tc by Mr. Coffey and we never got anywhere with it. Senator La Follette. May I ask you whether the items in this bil that was introduced — or I shall just confine myself to the Beauleai item — whether the Beauleau item of $5,000 that is named in the bil' to which you have made reference here, was passed upon by your gen- eral council? Mr. Carl. The Mrs. Beauleau item was not passed upon by the general council, only through its executive committee. Senator La Follette. Were these other items Avhich the committee has just adopted and put into this bill passed upon by the execu- tive committee or the general council? Mr. Carl. They were passed upon as to Wah-we-yea-oumig and Ain-dus-o-geshig, the two Indians, but the other claims were made to the Senator La Follette. Executive committee? Mr. Carl. Executive committee. Senator La Follette. That is the claim of the three Indians who get $500 apiece under the amendment which has just been adopted? Mr. Carl. That is the way I think it was. Senator La Follette. Is that your recollection,. Mr. Coffey ? Mr. CoFFET. No; the Beauleau and Fairbanks claim went to thf executive committe, but the two_ chiefs and the ' other three Indians wete allowed by the general council. Senator La Follette. Then the amendinent which has been adopted here by this committee had the approval of the genera] council ? Mr. CoFFET. The general council; yes, sir. Senator La Follette. Now, one thing more — I guess we had bet- ter take it one at a time. What powers have your executive com- mittee with regard to passing upon and authorizing the payment of claims against all Chippewa Indians of Minnesota? Mr. Carl. I think that is a legal question, but the way I under- stand it is under our constitution and by-laws the executive com- mittee has the same power as the general council during recess time ; that is, they have the right to convene at any time and pass upon busi- ness relative to the general council. Senator La Follette. Under your by-laws or constitution must the action of the executive committee, taken at such time as the genera] council is not in session, be submitted to and ratified by the genera] council before, it becomes effective and binding upon the tribe ? Mr. Carl. I do not remember anything in the by-laws and con- stitution to that effect. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 357 Senator La Follette. Well, then, I will come to this— has it been eustomary for the executive committee to pass upon these claims, and has the action of the committee in that regard always been approved by the general counsel when the matter was taken up in council, if it was ? Mr. Cakl. Yes, sir. I can give one illustration where the depart- ment recognized the action of the executive committee during the absence of the general council. I am vice president of the general council, and the president of the general council could not come here. They passed resolutions at the executive committee delegating me to come here in the absence of the president, and authorized my payment at so much pei* day and my expenses, and the Government officials of the bureau recognized that by paying me the money that was delegated by the executive committee. Senator La Foluette. Leaving out of consideration the Fairbanks claim and confining ourselves for the moment to the claim of Mrs. Beauleau, let me ask you this question generally : According to your ' information is this claim recognized as a jUst claim by all the In- dians that you have heard express themselves upon this matter at all, or is there a controversy about it ? Mr. Cael. There is a controversy on this side. Senator La Follette. That is one of the factions. Mr. Carl. That repudites the claim. Senator La Follette. They are not in favor of its payment ? Mr. Carl. The original claim amounted to nearly $29,000, and ' the executive committee thought they were doing a favor to the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota by allowing Mrs. Beauleau $5,000. Senator La Follette. And getting a settlement? Mr. Cakl. And getting a settlement. Senator La Follette. At that reduction? Mr. Carl. At that reduction ; yes, sir. Senator La Follette. That is what the executive committee thought? Mr. Carl. That is what they had in mind. Mr. Coffey was there at the time. Senator La Follette. Was he a member of the executive com- mittee ? . Mr. Carl. No, sir; he was not a member of the executive com- mittee. Senator La Follette. Did he participate at all in the discussion? Mr. Gael. He did ; but he did not have any voice in the vote. Senator La Follette. Did he protest against the action of the executive committee at that time? Mr. Carl. I did not notice any objection against the general com- mittee. Mr. CoEEET. Let me get this straight, according to your ques- tion Senator Walsh. Before we get to that, Mr. Chairman, may I ask this witness a question ? I want to know how the amount of $29,000 was arrived at? t-^t t. Mr. Cael. I could not answer that because Mr. Beauleau must have kept some account of what work he did for the Chippewa In- dians • but I know it to be a fact that he is the one who carried this through, and, of course, he had legal advisers. 358 Senator Walsh. But did he present a bill for that amount to the Indians ? Mr. Carl. He did; yes, sir. Senator Walsh. For $29,000? Mr. Carl. I think it was for more than that^-no; $28,000 and odd. Senator Walsh. Is that bill available so that we can learn what the items of it are? Mr. Cael. I do not know. Senator Walsh. Was any fee fixed by any action of the Court of Claims ? Mr. Cael. Well, I think Mr. Henderson could answer that question a great deal better, because he was one of the attorneys and knt/Ws about it. Senator Walsh. Very well. Mr. Cael. I can not answer that. Mr. Coffey. Now, with reference to the question propounded to Mr. Carl, it was customary for the executive council to pass upon such claims. I want to state that this is the first claim that ever was submitted to the executive committee. The executive committee has not ever passed upon any claims before of that character. The func- tion of that executive committee was this : It was simply just what its name implies, to execute the resolutions passed by the general coun- cil and to superintend the carrying out of those resolutions. That is the function of the executive committee. It had no original powers, legislative powers, the same as the general council has. It has never been presented to the general council and never been acted upon. The Chaibman. What is this to which you are referring. Mr. Coffey. These two claims have never been acted upon by the general council and have never been presented to the general council. The Chaieman. What claims — the Fairbanks and the Beauleau claim ? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir; those two. That is why I objected to them at that time. I told them the proceedings were irregular ; that those claims should be submitted first to the general council before the Indians, and let them give their disposition of that ; but that was not the case. They went to work and sandwiched them in. Senator Walsh. When was this action of the general council taken ? Mr. Coffey. The 20th day of November, 1917, I think was the date. Senator Walsh. Was a bill submitted at that time to the general council ? Mr. Coffey. There was a prepared resolution; it was not in the form of a bill. Senator Walsh. Do you know whether Mr. Beauleau ever did pre- sent a bill either to the execiitive committee or to the general council? Mr. Coffey. It was never presented to the general council or the executive committee of the Indians. But they were presented to a local council held on the White Earth Reservation on the 12th day ol June, 1915. That local council adopted resolutions ; it was composed of 9 or 10 of these mixed bloods, and they were interested in thai claim only. Senator Walsh. Anyway, as early as 1915, something in the natun of a bill from Mr. Beauleau was presented to at least a local council \ IJNDlAIf APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 359 Mr. CorFEY. A local council controlled by Mr. Beaulean. Senator Walsh. And as early as 1917 a 'resolution asking for the payment was before the executive committee for consideration? Mr. CoriEY. Yes. Senator Walsh. And has the general council held any meetina since that time? '^ Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. And they have never taken action upon this claim of the dead man? Mr. Coffey. Will you let me tell you- Senator Walsh. No ; just stnswer that question. Mr. Coffey. Not since, but they did previously. Senator Walsh. Let us hear what that was. Mr. Coffey. The truth of the matter was this : After that resolu- tion was adopted by the local council at White Earth, and the com- mittee authorized legislation to appropriate the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians to pay these claims which, altogether, amounted to about $108,000, Beauleau. Fairbanks, and these Indiajis, I believe they were included there. This local council was held over there in White Earth, and none of the Indians throughout the State of Minne- sota knew anything about it. It was held there in the nighttime. There are people here who will tell you all about it, and these reso- lutions were adopted there, and they were certified to as being the act of the Chippewa Indians in general council. The constitution provided that the general council should be held at Bemidji or Cass Lake on the second Tuesday of July each year. That local council was held at White Earth on the 12th day of June, 1915, so it could not have been the general council, according to the constitution and by-laws. Anyway, the secretary of the council, and the president of that council, certified to that council as being the act of the General Coun- cil of the Chippewa Indians, and in general council. That was brought down here to the city of Washington and submitted; that resolution was submitted to one of the Representatives of Congress, and a bill drafted for the purpose of being introduced in Con- gress to authorize the appropriation of this money to be paid over to these parties. I learned of that here, and I approached this Repre- sentative and asked him if he had been requested to introduce a bill, and he said he had been. So, he took the bill and he showed it to me, and I told him just exactly what I am telling you gentlemen now. Well, he said, " 1 have been in doubt for a long time as to the character of this proposition." He said, "I have carried it in my pocket during this time, and I do not know what to do with it." He says, " I am glad you told me that." So, then, we left. Then, I asked him this questioii, "If that bill goes before the committee I would like to be heard," and he said, "All right, I will advise you." I took the statement of this bill that I acquired here back to the council on the 14th day of the next July, and I submitted that to the general council, and it was the first the people there had heard of it. Everybody was up in arms and denouncing these men as thieves and scoundrels, the very men that drafted that resolution ; they are here, and they kept their mouths shut and went to work and drafted an- other resolution right there and then to rescind the resolution they adopted at White Earth in that local council. Then, they used these 360 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. words in rescinding it. "We ha^-e it here in one of our documents, that " whereas tliese vouchers and bills have never been properjy presented to the general council they are hereby rescinded." IS^ow. that is the status of that matter. The action of these very men, and here is one of them right there [indicating] , and he can not deny it. There are a number of them right here. I submitted the proceedings of their council which they held at White Earth, on the 12th day of June, here to the committee several days ago, and it is on record. Senator Walsh. Tell us, please, how Mr. Beauleau came to be paid $18,000. Mr. Coffey. That is on a contract ; that is a different proposition ; that was a regular contract. Senator Walsh. Was that the contract figure? Mr. Coffey. He received, according to my understanding, his con- tract figure ; but this was an entirely separate matter, built up in ad- dition to his stipulation in the contract. Senator Walsh. Have you a copy of the contract under which he was paid $18,000 ? Mr. Coffey. No ; I have not. Senator Walspi. What was the character of the work done by him dFor which he received the stipend of $18,000? Mr. Coffey. I understand he received a contract from the Mille Lac chief. I thinlc there are in this room right now — these men are Tiere now to prosecute a claim they have against the United States Government for loss of their reservation. Senator Walsh. Was $18,000 the price that was to be paid to him under the terms of the contract for that work? Mr. Coffey. I believe it was 10 per cent of the amount recovered. Senator Walsh. Ten per cent of the amount recovered ? Mr. Coffey. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. They tell us the amount recovered was $700,000. Mr. Coffey. Yes; and the rest of that compensation was divided among the attorneys. Senator Walsh. Hoav many ? Mr. Coffey. Four or five. Mrs. Beauleau can tell you better than I can. Mr. Henderson is here Senator Walsh. I understand that you contend, then, that Mr. Beauleau had been paid ; that the $18,000 which he got was in full payment for his services? Mr. Coffey. That is, under the contract. The Chairman. I would like to ask Mr. Henderson a few ques- tions. STATEMENT OF DANIEL B. HENDERSON. The Chaibmax. Where do you live, Mr. Henderson? Mr. Henderson. In Washington. The Chairman. What is your business ? Mr. Henderson. I am a lawyer. The Chairman. An attorney at law? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir. The Chairman. What relation did you have to all of this litiga- tion in this matter? IliTDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 361 Mr. Hendbkson. I was one of the attorneys that prosecuted the •suits through the courts, and that period extended from 1909 to about 1915. Prior to that time I had been employed by the Mille Lac chiefs since 1899. I had been employed upon this claim and was seeking during those years to obtain the consent of Congress to take the case to the courts. The Chairman. Who, if any other attorney, was associated with you in this matter ? Was there any other person associated with you in prosecuting this claim? Mr. Henderson. Mr. George B. Egerton, of St. Paul, Minn.; Mr. Harvey Clapp, of Duluth, Minn. ; and also a lawyer from Milwau- kee, Wis. The Chairman. You do not recall his name? Mr, Henderson. I do not know why it should have slipped me. Senator Walsh. Was it Mr. Ketcham? Mr. Henderson. No ; it was not Ketcham. Is there some one here who can tell me the name, Mr. Fairbanks? Mr. Fairbanks. Was it Holden? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir; F. W. Holden — Fred Holden. ' The Chaiehjan. Who else waw with you and assisted you or worked with you in this matter? Mr. Henderson. Our chief assistant and, perhaps, altogether, the most important man in the whole litigation, outside of the four attorneys, if he was any less iniportant than they, was Mr. Gus Beauleau, jNIrs. Beaideau's late husband; and, by the way, may I say, Mr. Chairman, that Mrs. Beauleau is entirely mistaken in say- ing that I am opposing any claim in her behalf or on behalf of Mr. Beauleau, because the value of Mr. Beauleau's services in this case could not well be overestimated. He was undoubtedly the ablest man in the Chippewa Tribe, among the many Minnesota Chippewas, in such matters as their tribal history and their tribal claims, and if my associates were here I am sure they would all say of him what I am glad to say, that his knowledge of the history of the treaties, his knowledge of where to find the evidence to win this case, all of these things were absolutely of inestimable value to these people. The CiiAiRiiAN. Do you know anything about the claim? What do you know about the legal evidence — you are a lawyer — that would tend to establish the claim of Mrs. Gus Beauleau for $5,000? Mr. Henderson. I know nothing further than this, Mr. Chairman. I believe the committee should know this much. There was paid to the attorneys — the four of us — $100,000: The Chairman. That is, Mr. Edgerton, Mr. Clapp, Mr. Holden, and Mr. Henderson? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir; that was the sum found by the Court of Claims to be due us upon due presentation of the evidence, of what our services were worth. ' We had paid various sums out of our own funds, amounting, I think, to $8,000 or $10,000, during the course of the litigation, in necessary expenses incurred, and that sum was subtracted from the $100,000. The amount was then divided, not into four parts but into five parts ; Mr. Beauleau was given exactly the amount that e:ich of the attorneys of record received. The Chairman. You divided the $90,000 into five parts, did you? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir; a little less than $90,000 was divided into five parts, and we paid to Mr. Beauleau one-fifth. 362 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. The Chairman. You say it was paid to him. Did you see it paid to him ? Do you Imow he got it ? Mr. Hendeeson. The money was all paid to me, the $100,000 was drawn by me, and distributed amongst the attorneys, and Mr. Beau- leau received from me his full share or, I think, perhaps I could state it a little more accurately by saying I paid Mr. Beauleau's share to Mr. Egerton, who was closer connected with him, being in St. Paul. The Chairman. Do you know that Mr. Egerton paid this money to Mr, Beauleau ? Are you absolutely certain that Mr. ■ Beauleau got his money? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir ; I talked, with Mr. Beauleau frequently . about it. * Senator Walsh. I understood Mrs. Beauleau to say so. The Chairman. That is true. One-fifth of $90,000 is $18,000. Is that the sum that Mr. Beauleau received? Mrs. Beatjieau. That is what he says. The Chairman. Have you anything further to say, Mr. Hender- son? Mr. Henderson. Mr. Beauleau, at the time he received that money from us, told us he had this claim against the Chippewas, which he expected Congress to allow in a separate bill. When it was al- lowed, if it was — the amount he claimed — he would then reimburse the four of us who had paid out of our funds the sums that we paid to him. The Chairman. After this money was paid, who, if any person, continued to look after the affairs of these Indians there? Did Mr. Beauleau render any further services that you know of ? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir. Just in one matter. This was the claim of the Mille Lac Band against the United States Government, and did not have any reference whatever to their general current affairs. The Chairman. Do you know whether or not Mr. Beauleau, now deceased, performed any other work after the payment of this money ? Mr. Henderson. For the Chippewas? The Chairman. Yes. Mr. Henderson. I know he continually did ; yes, sir. No one was more active in their behalf and attended more largely to their affairs than Mr. Beauleau, and that had been true during the 20 years I knew him, from 1899 down to the time of his death ; he stood forth as the most prominent Chippewa in the State. The Chairman. This may not be legal evidence, but have you any opinion as to whether or not any such sum as $5,000 would be likely to be due Mr. Beauleau? Mr. Henderson. I would not like to express an opinion, except I would like to see anything that may be done on his behalf or behalf of his family, because I was in position to know how very valuable Mr. Beauleau's services were to the tribe-. As to whether he had been duly compensated for what he did I do not know; I do know his services were of very great value to his people. The Chairman. Mrs. Beauleau is laboring under an erroneous impression when she says you were opposed to him ? Mr. Henderson. Altogether. I would like to see anything done for Mrs. Beauleau that can be done. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 363: .) Senator Walsh. What is the fact with respect to which she has spoken, namely, that the other attorneys got $20,000 each and her husband only got $18,000? Mr. Henderson. She is mistaken in that. Mrs. Beatjleau. My late husband told me that each of these at- torneys received $20,000 and he received $18,000, and he was to have $46,000, or 10 per cent of this $712,000 which he worked on since Mr. Henderson. That would be evidently true if the other attor- neys had not been compelled to pay some eight or ten thousand dol- lars in expenses off of the $100,000. If it had not been for that, he would have received $20,000. The Chairman. How about the Fairbanks claim ? Do you know anything about that? Mr. Henderson. I only know whatever Mr. Fairbanks tells you about that will be true. The Chairman. You mean to say he is a Inan of reliability and a man of good character. What does he do? What is his business? Is he in the room ? Mr. Henderson. Yes,, sir; he is standing over there. He is the biggest merchant in the Chippewa country. The Chairman. He is a merchant, is he? Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir ; he is a merchant. The Chairman. Do you know anything about the services he ren- dered ? Mr. Henderson. I know he and Mr. Beauleau were very closely associated through the last 10 or 15 years of Mr. Beauleau's life in the general work of the Chippewas. I do not know that Mr. Fair- banks claims for any services. My impression was it was rather for money he had advanced to the Indians or to Mr. Beauleau in promot- ing the efforts at recovery on their claims. But Mr. Fairchild is thoroughly capable of telling you anything you may want to know about it. STATEMENT OF EDWARD L. RODGERS, WALKER, MINN. Mr. Eodgers. Mr. Fairbanks and Mr. Gus Beauleau were very closely associated in the prosecution of this claim. In fact, Mr. Fair- banks, about that time, was about the only Chippewa that ever had any money in that country and he had to put up the expenses to get the men here to Washington, including the chiefs. He was here every day, Mr. Beauleau was, but he, not being an attorney, could not share with the other attorneys, and he puts in this claim of $5,000 to the tribe, not so much to recover for his services, because that would not cover the value of his service, but he would like to recover a fractional part of the money that he has put up. The Chairman. He wants reimbursement then? Mr. Rodgers. Yes; reimbursement, and you can say that is partly for his compensation, too. Now, this claim, both of these claims, of Mr. Fairbanks and of Mr. Beauleau, were passed upon by the execu- tive committee, and last summer they were ratified by the general council. The Chairman. Both the Beauleau and the Fairbanks claims ? 364 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. EoDGERS. Both the Beauleau and the Fairbanks claims were ratified by the general council, not the general council Mr. Coffey speaks of, but it is the general council. The Chairman. Mr. Coffey has told the truth, so far as he knows about it? Mr. RoDGERS. Yes; but when he says it was not ratified by the general council he had reference to the council which he had at- tended, but at the council which I attended it was ratified. Senator La Follette. Have you any record of that ? Mr. EoDGEES. No ; I wouldn't like to go into the question of which is the regular, meeting or not, but I want to read one paragraph of our constitution — I have the constitution in my hand — and I wa:nt to read article 5, which is as follows : Hereafter there shall be an annual meeting of the general council, held at such place as the pi'evlous general council shall direct, on the second Tuesday of July of each year, beginning In the year 1914, A. D. I just want to put that in the record. I also have the entire con- stitution here. The Chairman. Have you any record of the general council where the claims of Mr. Beauleau, now deceased, ancl Mr. Fairbanks were approved? If you have, I wish you would put that in the record. Mr. EoDGEEs. I haven't that here, but I have it at the hotel. The Chairman. Please put it in the record as soon as you can go to the hotel and get it. Is there any Chippewa here who is opposed to the payment of the Fairbanks claim? STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN CASWELL. Mr. Caswell. They had ample time to present those claims in 1917. They know they were not just claims and that is why they did not dare to present them in 1917, where we all united. Since they have their own council by themselves, they passed this and rati- fied them. If they were just claims, there was nobody there to put them in. The CnAiEirAN. You know Mr. Fairbanks? He seems to be a reputable man ancl a merchant? Mr. Caswell. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Do you know whether or not he has ever advanced any money to Indians to come here? Mr. Caswell. I don't know anything about that. The Chairman. He never advanced any to you? Mr. Caswell. "We have great respect for Mrs. Beauleau; but the only trouble is, I would not agree to it because the tribe would not agree to it. I would be glad to see her get that which she is asking for, but it would be against the grain in my nature to allow that which the Indians did not approve as a whole. The Ciiairbian. Now, Mr. Rodgcrs, the attorney of Cass County, did he not just state that the Indians at their general council had approved this thing? Mr. Rodgers is county attorney of Cass County, Minn ? Mr. Caswell. Yes, sir. The Chairman. He states he has a record at his hotel. !, INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 365 Mr. Caswell. That is the record they had last year. There are two councils. The Chairman. Oh, I see; there are two councils. Mr. Caswell. They have a council of their own and we have a council. Mr. Carl. Ask Mr. Caswell what council he was delegated to attend. The Chairman. You may ask him that if you wish. Mr. Carl. I am permitted by the chairman to ask you what cre- dentials you carried to the council and what council you attended? Mr. Caswell. I think I have credentials to both. I do not know which. Mrs. Beauleau. These Chippewas on this side have all been into my room and told me they agreed to me having this $5,000. The Chairman. Including Mr. Coffey? Mrs. Beauleau. Mr. Coffey and all. Mr. Coffey even drew me up a bill leaving out Mr. Fairbanks, and I do not like to have them dis- honest with me, because each one of them told me they wished me to have what was due my husband, which was $28,000, and they put it down to $5,000, and I agreed to accept it, because I thought there was no use of trying to get anything else. The Chairman. Is that all you wish to say, Mrs. Beauleau ? Mrs. Beauleau. Yes, sir. Mr. Coffey. There is a sort of doiible situation here. The Chairman. That is very obvious. Mr. Coffey. It is true that I agreed with Mrs. Beauleau in that matter, because I do believe, as Mr. Henderson has said, that Mr. Beauleau had rendered services to the Chippewas of Minnestota, but their conduct in these affairs there at home, aside from the Chippewa Indians, of course brought out this other matter that we objected to. We want these things brought out in the general council in the full view of the tribe, so that everybody will know all about them, and when they are not done in that way we object to that sort of pro- ceeding. Senator McNary. You do admit you told this lady she ought ta have the $5,000 ? Mr. Coffey. I told her I had great respect for her husband and his services, and I would be entirely willing to have this sum allowed. The Chairman. Your particular point is that while you are not contesting the claim, the tribe has never authorized it ? Mr. Coffey. The tribe never authorized it, but I would be willing to assist in that. Senator McNary. Mr. Chairman, in what form is this presented? The Chairman. In the form of a claim against the Chippewas. Senator McNary. Has it been presented formally to this com- mittee ? The Chairman. Yes, sir. Senator McNary. I move that it be incorporated in the bill. The Chairman. Your motion relates to Gus Beauleau's claim ? Senator McNary. Yes, sir. ^ ^ , . , , . The Chairman. The Senator from Oregon moves that the claim of Mrs. Ella Beauleau, widow of Gus H. Beauleau, for the sum of $5,000 shall be put in the bill. 566 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. (The motion was agreed to.) The Chairman. Now, do you want to take up the Fairbanks claim ? Do you want to be heard on that ? STATEMENT OF ME. JOHN ARTEN, SUPERIOR, WIS. Mr. Aeten. I was a member of the executive committee at the time this claim was put up to us, and I opposed it very heavily. I said it was not right for a man to come up here and present a bill before the members of the executive committee. Well, they said that was not on the floor of the general council in 1917. If I am not mistal^n, I believe that was duly discussed on the floor, and everybody was opposed to it. Anyway, it was carried on the floor by a small vote. Mr. Warren, a member of the executive committee, after I made my statement, he talked on it. Gus Beauleau, for twenty-eight thou- sand and some odd hundred dollars; Fairbanks had one there for $6,000. I thought the thing over while I was sitting there, and Mr. Warren «iade the motion that we cut Mr. Beauleau's bill down to $5,000 and allow Mr. Fairbanks's. You take a committee of three men, and you • fellows have your tangles in the Senate, and you appoint a committee of three men, and this thing is hanging fire for a long time ; this bill of Gus Beauleau. I said : " This is a pretty good day's work for the executive committee if this bill be paid for $5,000," and I .withdrew my complaint against the bill and allowed the bill, and we took up Mr. Fairbanks's bill. The Chairman. They approved the Beauleau claim? Mr. Arten. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Now, we will pass to the Fairbanks claim. Mr. Arten. Mr. Fairbanks started in with this bill, and he pro- duced money. Mr. Fairbanks is about the only Indian among the Chippewas that has any money that we could rely on any time we wanted money, and Fairbanks has got a number of stores. He is a great help to the Indians, and I will say he fed more Indians — Chip- pewa Indians — in the United States and helped them, and he has got more bills standing out in regard to helping Indians. He pro- duced this money. The Chairman. You mean he furnished money to the Indians ? Mr. Aeten. Yes, sir. Senator La Follette. He produced evidence? Mr. Aeten. He stated he could not furnish this evidence on ac- count of his home burning down. His store burned down where he had these bills, and therefore Mr. Fairbanks has absolutely no evi- dence to produce. It is known by all of the Indians that he paid this money. The Chairman. You are a railroad engineer — a locomotive engi- neer? Mr. Aeten. Yes, sir. The Chaieman. You have been such for a number of years ? Mr. Aeten. Eleven years. The Chairman. Do you live near Mr. Fairbanks ? Mr. Arten. No, sir. The Chairman. How far do you live from his place ? Mr. Arten. He lives in White Earth and I live in Superior, Wis. INDIAN APFKOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 367 The Chairman. Do you know of any persons to whom he has fur- hed money? Mr. Arten. Just what I heard in general council ; just hearsay. The Chairman. It was the general talk there that Mr. Fairbanks had furnished money to these Indians and kept them ? Mr. Arten. Yes, sir. Now, Mr. Coffey opposes this bill. I do not like to mention Mr. Coffey's name very much ; he opposes Mr. Fair- banks being paid, and put in that resolution^— \ The Chairman. Mr. Coffey explained that. He thinks the general council did not authorize it. He is not opposed to the payment. Mr. Arten. If these old chiefs rendered any services to the Mille Lac case, Mr. Fairbanks was in the case all thetime, as was said here. 15 or 20 years. The Chairman. Do you think Mr. Fairbanks Ought to be paid this money ? Mr. Arten. Yes, sir; if these old chiefs rendered any services and Mr. Fairbanks worked for them, I am sure he must have put up some money ; that" was the ground I adopted on the question with the ex- ecutive committee. That is why I am speaking on it. The Chairman. Senators, do you want any further testimony ? Senator La Follette. Has Mr. Fairbanks been heard ? The Chairman. Mr. Fairbanks, do you wish to be heard ? ' Senator Walsh. It appears from the statement just made that this money, or at least a portion of it, furnished by Mr. Fairbanks was furnished to individual needy Indians. The Chairman. Yes. , Senator Wai^h. I doubt whether that would be a just foundation for an allowance of the claim against the tribe. My understanding about it before this witness was that he had> furnished money to these Indians who at various times had come down here representing the tribe ; their expenses down here at Washington when they came press- ing this claim. Of course, that would be Senator La Follette. I did not understand that this last witness meant to state that the $5,000 constituted money loaned generally to Indians ; that $5,000 was advances made to these chiefs who came here to prosecute this claim. Senator Walsh. That is the way I understand it. Senator, from Mr. Eodgers, who spoke a while ago ; but I got a different impression from the testimony of this witness. Mr, Arten. The way I stated it, he wanted to state that he had produced money in assisting these Indians, and also his work with it. IJnderstand what I mean, he had produced — how much money he had produced we do not know, but he has time and time again given money to that purpose, I judge; I do not know. These old chief's services were rendered for $5,000 — I do not see why Fairbanks is not entitled to his. Senator La Follette. You mean by that, if these chiefs rendered services to the value of $5,000, which is now incorporated in this bill, that the services they rendered, they were able to render because Mr. Fairbanks advanced the money to pay their expenses while they were rendering the services? Is that what you mean? Mr. Aj{1"EN. Yes, sir ; he gave money to them, and he worked with them, too, at the same time. ' 368 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Mr. EoGEES. Not only gave money, but he also came down and also worked upon this claim. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM LTJFKINS. Mr. LuFKiNS. We are talking of the Mille Lac case. The Chairman. We are talking about the claim of Ben L. Fair- banks for $5,000. Mr. Ltjfkins. On the Mille Lac case. There were five attorneys, and each got $5,000 — I mean $20,000 or more — and Gus H. Beau- leau was one of them; and Ben L. Fairbanks was identified with Gus H. Beauleau in prosecuting these individual claims; that is, they had fees, after this case, these attorneys, and Gus Beauleau was one of the attorneys. During that time when he was prosecuting this case it wag his own 10 per cent case, and not us Chippewa Indians; but, as a matter of fact, they got the $100,000 and settled this Mille Lac matter, and the money was put in the general treasury. You understand, they were not liberal enough, thankful enough, to say to Chief Wah-we- yea-oumig and Chief Ain-dus-o-geshig, "Thank you; here is $5,000 out of this $100,000." They took it themselves, and here they come back The Chairman. Mr. Henderson, the attorney, has explained that, I think, very fully. He said Mr. Egerton, Mr. Clapp, and the five of them received $100,000 and expenses — about $10,000 — and they divided it into five parts and Mr. Beauleau got $18,000, as the rest of them did. There was no duty on their part to pay any money to the chiefs. There was no obligation in law or otherwise that they should turn part of their fee over to somebody else. Senator Nugent. What he is evidently seeking to convey, Mr. Chairman, is that Mr. Beauleau entered into an agreement with the Indians to prosecute this claim for 10 per cent of the amount recov- ered; that he, Beauleau, entered into a contract with the Chippewa Tribe to that effect. He, as a matter of course, was entitled to em- ploy such attorneys and assistants as he desired, and if he employed, these other four attorneys who were associated with him, who evi- dently sought the assistance of these othpr gentlemen who are men- tioned here, and that they should receive their compensation out of the 10 per cent, which amounts to approximately $100,000, and hav- ing entered into that contract and received the money and having not paid these other people, that now the Chippewa Tribe is not 6bli- gated to pay the Mille Lac chiefs or the Beauleau claim or the claim made by Mr. Henderson. Is that what you mean ? Mr. Ltjfkins. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Have you anything further to say ? Mr. LurKiNS. Of course, I am objecting to these four Indians get- ting anything. The Chairman. Would you like to say anything, Mr. Fairbanks ? Mr. Fairbanks. No, sir. Senator Walsh. Let us hear his claim. The Chairman. He says he doesn't care to say anything. Senator Walsh. I would like to hear his claim. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 369 STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN L. FAIRBANKS. Mr. Fairbanks. What is it you want to know ? Senator Walsh. You have a claim for $5,000 and we want to know what there is to this claim. Mr. Fairbanks. First, Mr. Beauleau had a contract from the Mille Lac Indians and we worked together at that time ; I furnished them money and one thing and another. There was a law passed, I think, in 1913, if I am not mistaken, that only attorneys of record could receive anything from the Indians on a contract. Therefore, it put us to one side. So Gus kept working and I kept furnishing him money right along, and he kept coming to Washington and I kept ■,:;eE>ming with him and kept furnishing him money, money, money, and I thought I was working with him and I thought I was entitled to that $5,000 of money that I furnished and the work I done. ,, The Chairman. How much money, if any, have you furnished the Indians in regard to this matter in cash ? Mr. Fairbanks. In cash I must have given Gus Beauleau at least three or four thousand dollars. The Chairman. Did you ever furnish moneys to any other Indian to come to Washington on this claim or to take care of this claim ? Mr. LuTKiNS. I used to furnish money to Gus Beauleau and he used to bring Indians here with him. The Chairman. You say to this committee you have furnished to Mr. Beauleau for the purpose of bringing those Indians here and other purposes on this claim from three to four thousand dollars in cash ? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir ; in cash. Senator Curtis. How much did Mr. Beauleau give you out of the $18,000? Mr. Fairbanks. He borrowed $200 from me while he was waiting for the $18,000, and he gave me a check for that $200. Senator Curtis. Is that all you got? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Then you received about $200? Mr. Fairbanks. That is all I received. Senator Walsh. Mr. Fairbanks, apparently, then, while you were furnishing this money and doing this work you were expecting to get a portion of this 10 per cent ? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. You were looking to Mr. Beauleau to pay you back the moneys you had furnished, and to pay you what was right for your services? Mr. Fairbanks. Mr. Beauleau and the Mille Lac Indians ; yes, sir. Senator Walsh. What I want to know is whether you were look- ing to the Indians to return this money to you out of what was com- ing to them from the judgment, or whether you were looking to Mr. Beauleau. Mr. Fairbanks. No ; from the Indian claims. Senator Walsh. Did you ever have any agreement with the In- dians? ^ -r, , -r 1 • • -I -.i- Mr. Fairbanks. No ; with Gus Beauleau. I was working with Mr. Gus Beauleau and had a contract with the Indians. 106080—19 -24: 370 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920'. Senator Walsh. And you expected to get your pay out of th money he was to get from the Indians ? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir; that was the understanding. The Chairman. Is there anything further? Senator McNart. How much was the claim allowed by the court Mr. Fairbanks. $100,000. Senator McNart. And he had a 10 per cent contract. Senator La Follette. Do you mean the claim for the attorneys o: the total claim ? Senator McNart. The total claim allowed the Indians by thi court. Mr. Fairbanks. $100,000. Senator McNart. Here is the point I want to get at, Senato: Walsh, following your inquiries. The question here, as I under stand it, is whether or not it is an individual liability of this mai Beauleau in person or his estate, or whether it can properly be takei from the tribal funds and only such money could be taken as con tributed to the development of this case. That is all I want to know In order to direct my own vote and action, I desire that informa tion. You say he had a contract for 10 per cent of the whole claim amounting to $750,000? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. . Senator McNaet. Or 10 per cent of any other sum recovered? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. They did recover $100,000 — I mean a millioi dollars ? Mr. Fairbanks. $750,000, I think, they recovered. Senator McNart. But the fee allowed by the court was $100,0001 Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir ; I think the fee was made by the Court of Claims. Senator McNart. I understand, "but it was $100,000? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. You were assisting Mr. Beauleau, who had this case generally in charge? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. To procure the evidence ? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNaet. You supplied the money to him to bring- thes< chiefs here before the committee to testify? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. That they might pass some law permitting th( claim to be presented to the Court of Claims ? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. That sum amounted to between three and foui thousand dollars? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. Did you give it by way of checks ? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes; I gave him many checks, but my store waj burned in 1910 and I lost all of my papers. Senator McNart. And this money was used by him to bring thes( papers, so you could all get the funds? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. Why do you claim $5,000 against the triba fund? INDIAN APPEOPEIATiON BILL, 1920. 371 Mr. Fairbanks. I done some work. I used to come down with them. Senator McNaet. Oh, well, now, then the three to four thousand dollars is for money advanced in connection with this case ; the rest is for fees that you claim you earned for your services ? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNary. And you were working, you said a few minutes ago, in response to a question by Senator Walsh, for Mr. Beauleau ? Mr. Fairbanks. I wasn't working for him; I was working with him. Senator McNart. You were to be compensated out of the money allowed by the court? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. And the court only permitted attorneys to oper- ate in the case and allowed the claim to the four attorneys who were licensed to practice in the court? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator- McNart. Now, your claim properly is against the $100,000 fee allowed to these four attorneys ? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. But not against the tribal funds? Mr. Fairbanks. No; it is against the tribal fund. I could get my jpay from Senator Curtjs. What agreement did you have with Beauleau as to what part of the fee should be paid to you ? Mr. Fairbanks. It wasn't under a regular contract, but he was to divide with me before he got Senator McNart. He received $18,000 for this testimony of his widow ? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. Did he give you any of that sum of money ? Mr. Fairbanks. No, sir. Senator McNart. Did you ask him for it? Mr. Fairbanks. No, sir ; I was here in Washington when he got it. Senator McNart. Didn't he make some statement regarding divid- ing the money ? Mr. Fairbanks. No; he thought when we got itout of the tribe. Senator McNart. He never even discussed the situation? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes ; he talked about it. He said he was going to put in a claim to Congress to get the tribe to pay it. Senator McNart. Did he do so in his lifetime? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir ; he has a book published Senator McNart. Did he ever present a claim to Congress for anv sum in addition to that which he received ? Mr. Fairbanks. I think he was going to claim $46,000; the In- dians allowed him that in one of the councils. Senator McNart. You operate several stores? Mr. Fairbanks. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. You are a man of considerable means? Mr. Fairbanks. Well, yes. ■ The Chairman. Senators, are you ready to vote? Do you want to dispose of this now ? , . , , Senator Nugent. I move that the Fairba:nks item be not incor- porated in this bill. 372 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILi,, 1920. The Chairman. The Senator from Idaho moves that the Fai: banks claim be rejected. (The motion was agreed to.) Senator Nugent. I now move, Mr. Chairman, that the vote, h which the Beauleau item Was incorporated in the bill be reconsic ered. (The motion was lost.) Senator Nugent. I reserve the right to take such action in th Senate as I deem proper. The Chairman. The remaining item here is the Wisconsin item- distribution of the fund for the Chippewas. I think we should finis to-day. We want to get ahead of the Army and Navy bills. • Senator Walsh. I hope you will not overlook the amendment tendered, subjecting the Indians to the operation of the State laws. The Chairman. That is pending now. Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Will you present that now? Senator Walsh. I will be glad to. Let me say, in brief, Mi Chairman, that the State laws are not operative as against the Ir dians — for instance, in the case of marriage, divorce, and healtl The State authorities have no jurisdiction over them. Moreover, th bill makes them subject to the State criminal laws. You wi] remember that under the Federal statute it is only the graver crime committed on the Indian reservation there by Indians or anybod; against the Indians that are tryable in the Federal courts. It wa determined in the Crow Dog case that the ordinary crime of on Indian against the other Indian is not a crime at all except as it i regulated by the tribal laws and in the tribal courts. Senator McNaet. Committed on the reservation. Senator Walsh. For instance, petty larceny against one Indiai by another Indian is not triable except by the tribal regulations. The Chairman. Your amendment is quite elaborate, some five o six or seven pages of typewritten matter. Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Do you want to read it to the committee. Senator Walsh. I shall be glad to read it. Senator McNaey. That confers jurisdiction on the Federal cour to try all cases and misdemeanors? Senator Walsh. This provides for the appointment of a commis sioner with jurisdiction of a justice of the peace. Senator McNary. A commissioner to operate on the reservations Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. Senator McNart. A law of general application ? Senator Walsh. Yes; by trying all petty offenses committed b; one Indian against another Indian on the r6servation. The crim is as defined by the State law, but triable in the Federal courts. SenatorMcNAET. Yes; but under State laws all commissions o acts esteemed wrong in common law are defined by the the State. Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. Senator MoNary. You have no criminal law in your State; it i all covered by statute. Senator W-^lsh. Yes, Senator; butwhether it is covered by statut or by common law which is in force in the State, whatever is a crim INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 373 in the State outside of the reservation is a crime inside of the reser- vation undfer the operation of the law. Senator McNaky. I do not get this point. I may be obtuse in the matter, because it is a new proposition. Take a crime that is really a felony of which the Federal courts would have jurisdiction; do you confer upon this tribunal concurrent jurisdiction? f Senator Walsh. No, sir. Senator McKary. Or does it cover these smaller cases that are not taken cognizance of by the Federal courts ? Senator Walsh. Here is the situation. Senator; under the existing statutes the gi-aver class of crimes, murder, rape, grand larceny, and that kind of thing, committed on the reservation by one Indian against another Indian, are now triable by the Federal court. Senator McNary. Yes; I understand that. Senator Walsh. The lesser crimes are not triable anywhere except by the tribal courts, and they are not even crimes unless the tribe chooses to consider them crimes. This statute makes all crimes that are crimes outside of the reservation crimes inside of the reservation. If they are all defined by Federal law, the Federal law controls; if not defined by Federal law, the State law controls; but the offense is not triable in the State court ; they do hot take the Indian in the State court and try him there, but he is'triable in the Federal courts, except for altogether petty crimes which are triable by the commissioner having a jurisdiction of the justice of the peace. Senator McNaey. I understand that now. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee with respect to the amendment of the Senator 'from Montana? Senator Curtis. Let us hear it read. Senator Walsh. The bill was drafted and introduced by Congress- man Gandy in the House. He is Congressman from the western dis- trict of South Dakota. I adopted his bill and have modified the lan- guage just briefly in parts. I will read it. (The amendment referred to is here printed in full as follows :) Sec. 27. That hereafter all Indians and other persons residing on any Indian reservations or superintendency shall be subject to the laws of the State or Territory witliin which the same may be, relnting to marriage, health, and education — Senator Walsh. That would make the compulsory education laws of the State operative on the Indian reservation. and all Indians and other persons upon any such reservation or superintendency, whether resident or not, shall he subject to the criniial laws of such State or Territory. Senator Curtis. That is all persons? Senator Walsh. All persons on the reservations ; it makes what is a crime off the reservation a crim on the reservation. Provided, That this section shall not apply to the State of Oklahoma; Pro- vided further. That in all cases where the laws of the Hinted States and the :riminal laws of any State or Territory provide for the punishment of the same jffense the laws of the United States shall govern as to said oi¥enses. Senator Walsh. As I have heretofore explained, the Federal latv low provides for the punishment of the graver offenses, so that they ivould hereafter be punished according to that law and not accord- ng to the State law. 374 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. Proi-„ded further. That this act shall not limit or alter the establisheil treat; rights of any Indian tribe or Individual Indian in respect to hunting and flshm! privileges. That where such persons are not now subject to said laws jurisdiction li hereby given to the United States district court to enforce the said marriage health, educational laws and to punish by appropriate procedure infractior of such criminal laws on Indian reservations or superintendencies, and th( United States District Attorney shall be charged with the prosecution of of fenders against such laws, except tliat cases involving infractions of the saic laws relating to misdemeanors may be heard and determined in the absencf of said District Attorney. That the judges of the United States, district courts in their respective dis tricts are hereby authorized to appoint on and for any Indian reservation oi superintendency or any part thereof, United States commissioners who shal have and exercise the same authority and jurisdiction of a justice of the peacf in the State or Territory wherein said appointment is made, relating to th( offenses against the laws mentioned in the first paragraph of this section They shall also be ex officio notaries public, and shall have the power tc solemnize marriage. Said appointment shall be for a term of four years, sub ject to removal by the judge of the district court where the commissioner re sides for causes prescribed by law. The order appointing any such conimls sloner shall be In writing and shall be spread upon the records of the court ol the district in which the appointment is made ; and the lorder shall deslgnait^ the territory within which said commissioner shall have jurisdicton. Said commissioner shall be provided with the usual dockef and a supply oJ legal blanks for criminal proceedings, such as are used by justices of iieace it the State or Territory where the appointment is made. That said commissioners acting as justices of the peace in criminal cases .shall have jurisdiction to hear and determine cases involving misdemeanors where the penalty to be imposed is not greater than a fine of $100, or a jail sentence of not longer than thirty days, or both such fine and jail sentence, If a jail sentence is imposed, defendant shall be confined during the term oi liis or her sentence in the guardhouse of the reservation or the superintendencj where said ofCense was committed. In cases involving misdemeanors where th€ penalty is in excess of $100 fine or in excess of thirty days in jail and ir cases involving felonies said commissioners acting as justices of the peace shall have jurisdiction to hold preliminary examinations and discharge, hold to bail, or commit. The United States marshal in any district where appoint- ment is made hereunder shall advise said commissioner or commissioners oi the location of a jail where said commitment may be made. Appeals may be taken to the United States district court from the final judgment of such commissioners acting as justices of the peace in all cases and such appeals shall be taken in the manner that appeals may be taken from the final judgment of the justices of the peace under the provisions ol the laws of the State or Territory in which said commissioner resides. That wherever an United States commissioner has been appointed here under the judge of the United States district court may appoint a constable for each of said commissioner's districts so designated by the court, whicl appointment shall be in writing and shall be spread upon the records of said court and the constable so appointed shall perform^ all the duties required ol constables by the laws of the State where said commissioner resides. Saic appointment shall be for a term of four years, subject to removal by the judge of the district court where the constable' resides, for causes prescribed bj; law Each of said commissioners and constables shall be entitled to such fees and compensation as are provided for justices of the peace and constables by the laws of the State in which they reside. They shall each keep a careful account of all fees, fines, costs, or othei moneys collected by or paid to either of them and shall make due report thereof at the end of every quarter to the clerk of the United States court who shall pay into the Treasury of the United States the amount of the fines so received. Where not sufficient fees have been collected to pay the amounts due said commissioners or constables as determined by the laws hereinbefor< mentioned then either or both of them shall file with the clerk of the Unitec States district court a full and complete statement of the amounts said t( be due either or both of them and if such statement he approved by the judg( of the district court it shall be certified to the Attorney General for payment x!:.'\jji.a.±\ auirjrxviujrcj.jiiiui-'s DiXjlj, xy^v, HID Such commlssiouei-s and constables before entering upon the discharge of ilieir duties shall each execute to the United States for the security of the public a good and sufficient bond in tlie sum of .$300 to be approved by tlie judge ap- pointing him and conditioned that he will faithfully discharge the duties of liis oflace and make proper accounting for all moneys going into his hands ; and he shall take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and to faith- fully perform the duties required of him. wliich bond and oath shall be filed With the clerlj in the district in whieli the appointment is made, i All cases shall be tried or preliminary lioarings held before the. United States commissioner to whom the process is returnable unless a change of venue is allowed, in which case the commissioner shall change the venue to the nearest commissioner appointed hereunder within the district, except that where there is no such other district connnissioner the case shall be certified to the district court. You will observe, members of the committee, that the amendment is as long as it is because of the necessity for making a provision con- cerning these commissioners who are to try all petty cases on the res- ervation. The principle of the amendment being embodied in the first section, which brings the reservation under the operation of the criminal laws of the States and the laws with relation to health, marriage, and sanitation. Senator Curtis. You have another proposition there. You do not provide for a seal. If you recall in the Oklahoma case we had a case here where the papers were used by a justice of the peace, acknowl- edgments taken by a justice of the peace, we had the worst corrup- tion, I think, that ever occurred anywhere, and after they had put over their applications for enrollment, they very conveniently burned down the courthouse and got rid of all papers and destroped them, and I think the very fact that you people have no seal issued by a State would make it subject to very severe criticism, because people might claim they were married when they never were married, and all that kind of thing. That is the way it looks to me. Second, I think you are carrying a lot of machinery there for the prosecution of these cases when they ought really to be turned over to the counties in which the reservations are situated, and giving the local jurisdiction to the justice of the peace. I think some legislation of this kind is very badly needed, but I think you are putting too much United States machinery in there. I would give it to the local justices of the peace or the local district courts. Senator Walsh. That would be very proper, but you can not justly impose that burden upon a county. Senator Ctjetis. I understand what you mean. It is a question of costs. Senator Walsh. Y^es, sir. Senator Curtis. Unless you could provide for appointment of United States authorities. Senator Walsh. There is one trouble about that, and that is that the justices in the counties whose bounds extend over the reserva- tions, if there are any in our State. In our State I recall that the Blackf eet Eeservation is without any county. Senator Curtis. There you would have to have the United States authority unless you attach it. Senator Walsh. Now, the Crow Eeservation; I am pretty sure the county lines are so drawn Senator Curtis. Do you not think, in view of the importance of this legislation that we ought to have time to investigate it and that it should go over to the next session of Congress? I agree with 376 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILX,, 1920. you that something of that kind ought to be done. I am informed the courts have held that a rape committed by one Indian upon another upon a reservation is not punishable; that that is not in- cluded ; is that right, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. For noncitizen Indians, certain crimes committed by noncitizen Indians on Indian reservations are not included in what is known as the crimes act. Senator Walsh. I recall when I began to practice law in the ter* ritory of Dakota, 30 years ago, one of the missionaries came to me complaining verv bitterly that all kinds of crimes were being per- petrated by one "Indian against another, largely petty in character, and there was no way to reach it. _ * Senator Cttetis. Would it not be cheaper for the United States Government to pay the costs of the local court than the United States court ? Senator Walsh. I do not believe that will work, because, take the Crow Reservation, and if you had no justice hearer than Hardin — how far is it from Prj'or to Hardin — it is 58 miles. Hardin would be the nearest place where you would get a justice of the peace. Egbert Yellowtail. You could go_ right down to Edgar. Edgar is 22 miles from Hardin. Senator Ctjetis. I think legislation of this kind ought to be had, but I really believe it ought to be worked out by a subcommit- tee, and see if we could not agree upon something that would be a little , cheaper, and if possible, correct one mistake that I pointed out, especially; that could be very easily done, though, by an amendment requiring a seal. A man could go and buy a seal. But you are going to make a mistake if you authorize marriages and execute the paper by a man on the Indian reservation without a seal. We had that up in Oklahoma and it was awful. Senator Walsh. Justices take acknowledgments in Wisconsii| without a seal, do they not. Senator La FoUette? Senator La Follette. Yes, sir. Senator McNaey. I do not attach any importance to the impres- sion made by a seal, if there is a record of them. Senator Walsh. It is an additional safeguard. Senator McNaey. If there is a record of that made in some place, it is more secure than the files of this official ; I would feel that ample protection was afforded to show evidence of the marriage contract. Senator Walsh. Another thing. Senator, is this : This extends the laws in relation to marriage. Practically every State now has a mar- riage law, so they have got to take out a marriage license and the officiating minister must make a report, and he is subject to a fine and imprisonment if he does not. So that this commissioner solemn- izing a marriage would be subject to a fine if he did not report; so that in the absence of a record under those circumstances, either of a license or a return of the officiating minister, the presumption would be very strong that there never was a marriage. Senator McNaet. This commissioner is to reside on the reserva- tion? Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. Senator McNaet. What is his salary as given there? Senator Walsh. This provides that he gets whatever fees are al- lowed justices of the peace by the State statute. INDIAN APPROPEIATIOSr BILL, 1920. 377 Senator McNaet. Are there any qualifications prescribed — any legal or educational qualifications prescribed for him ? Senator Walsh. No; he is appointed by the district court. Senator McNaey. You take this instance, as Senator Curtis says, of noncitizen Indians committing rape upon an Indian on the reser- vation; this would give him jurisdiction to try the case? Senator Walsh. No, no; he would simply, be entitled to examine and commit. Senator McNary. He would act as a magistrate rather than a justice ? Senator Walsh. Yes; he has final jurisdiction onlv where the penalty is not to exceed $100. Senator McNaet. I did not get that. That is all right. Senator Cuetis. Under the laws of our State, justices of the peace get no salary at all ; they are all paid by fees. Senator Walsh. Well, I believe the bill is fairly complete as it is, but I should not object to having the matter referred to a subcom- mittee. Senator McNaey. I think it should be. Senator Cuetis. It is so important. Senator, I really think you ought to have that legislation and I am awfully glad it has been offered, but I doubt the advisability of putting it on this bill, Sena- tor. I know — and especially since I heard that testimony last year where the court case was heard. Senator Walsh. Mr. Meritt, has the department any views to «xpress,about the general idea of the amendment ? Mr. Meeitt.. We have read the amendment. Senator, and it is very broad and very important legislation. We recognize that there is need for legislation along the lines of your amendment. The Indian Bureau, as well as the Board of Indian Commissioners, have hereto- fore recommended legislation along these lines. The crimes act does not cover certain offenses committed by noncitizen Indians on the Indian reservations. It is my belief that this legislation is so very important that it might well be gone over very carefully by the Senate committee before final enactment. People engaged in this Indian work have different ideas about what laws should be enacted on this subject. I believe it is possible to work out legislation that will cover the needs of the situation, but it is possible that some of the language in that proposed legislation may go too far along certain lines. My thought would be to have the matter referred to a subcommittee and worked out carefuUj' before attempting to enact that legislation, if I may express myself on that subject. . Senator Walsh. I move that the amendment be referred to a subcommittee with directions to report at the ensuing session of Congress, and that meanwhile the views of the department in relation to the legislation be requested. (The motion was agreed to.) Senator Ctjetis. Now, let us go_ to Wisconsin. The Chaieman. The subcommittee to be appointed by the chair- man? . Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Consisting of how many? Senator Walsh. Three would be enough. S78 JNDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Curtis. Right in that connection, Senator, did you_ tell' them about a bill that was prepared by the Indian Commission? They came to me, one of the members of the Indian Commission, with a bill already prepared on this subject. Senator Walsh. I think it is the same one that one of the members- of the commission brought to my attention, and subsequently Mr. Brosius, representing the Indian Eights Association, came to see me about it. Senator Curtis. Probably it is the same thing. Senator Walsh. Apparently all of the organizations who exercise ■ supervising care over the Indians feel the necessity for this legisla- tion. ' , • Senator Curtis. There is no doubt about that. Mr. Meritt. We adinit legislation is needed on that subject. The Chairman. Senator La FoUette, have you some matters which you desire to present to the committee? tomah, wis. — drainage. Senator La Follette. Yes; in the first place, on page 54, in the item on line 16, regarding the Tomah School, Mr. Meritt, I had a letter recently from the superintendent there with regard to the appropriation for draining or perfecting the drainage of about 80' acres of land, as I understand it, that is used for farming purposes in connection with the school. Have you some data on that subject, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. We have a farm at that school, and there are lands there that need to be drained. Senator La Follette. If I had received this letter earlier so that I could have taken it up with the department and also corresponded' further with the superintendent about it I would have be&n much better prepared to bring it before the committee, but Mr. Compton, who is, I think, a very excellent superintendent, has been in the service there a long time; I do not know how long he has been in charge there at Tomah? Mr. Meritt. A great many -years, and he has been a competent superintendent. Senator La Follette. It is a great many years and dates back of my time. He says : We have 80 acres of land tliat needs a ranch better outlet and some additional tile. It is no use to put in additional tiling until an outlet is approved. To secure an outlet for the ditches we have we will be required to put in 18 or 24 Inch glazed tile alongside of the Northwestern Railroad track parallel to Cranberry Reservoir. Had I thought that the Indian Office would not make this recommenda,tion — It seems he had brought it to the attention of the office before — I would have taken this matter up with you. It wili cost us about $2,500 to do the drainage work that we should do on this 80 acres of land, and when this is done we will go very far toward reclaiming and making almost perfect land out of the most of the 80 acres. Senator McNary. How much money does he want? Senator La Follette. $2,500 to complete the drainage of that 80' acres. I would like to know, Mr. Meritt, if you have any recollection about it or have any data on it, what you think about that. IJNJJIAJN APPBOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 37Q Mr Meeitt. It will be entirely agreeable to the Indian Office for the Item to go on m the bill after line 18, for drainage of school lands, $2,500. Senator Walsh. Is that a gratuity ? Mr Meeitt. A gratuity. The Tomah School is a nonreservation school. ^nator La Foluette. It is one of the best schools in the State. Mr. Meeitt. It is a very good school. Senator Walsh. Where do the pubils come from— what reserva- tion? Mr. Meeitt. The reservations in Wisconsin and Minnesota. Senator Walsh. Are they as well fixed as the Chippewas? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; the Indians who attend there have not any large amount of money to their credit. They need the assistance of the Government in procuring their education. Senator La Follette. Does this work with the schools for the reservations generally in Wisconsin ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. There is really no fund of the Indians generally from which this could be reimbursed? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator La Follette. I wanted to bring it to the attention of the committee, and just to test the sense of the committee I will move that that amendment be made. Senator Walsh. Understand, I haven't the slightest objection to the item. I wanted to see that we could get it back. Senator La Follette. I understand; your inquii-y is entirely proper. The idea is to add, after the semicolon on line 18, the words "for drainage of school land, $2,500." It should be limited to this; it might be limited to that 80 acres if it could be prescribed. (Without objection, the amendment was agreed to.) Senator Cuetis. Senator La Follette. has your attention been called to that Pottowatomie ? Senator La Follette. Yes. I am coming to that a little later. I will take the matters up in the order in which I have them arranged. I do not think I will have anything to offer in the way of an amendment uj?on this, but I want to bring it to the attention of Mr. Meritt. Mr. Compton makes the suggestion here, which I think may be worthy of consideration, if not now, subsequently. He says : There is anotlier question which I wish you would consider, and that is the per capita cost of pupils in Indian schools,, which is based upon actual attend- ance for the entire 12 months of the year. It has long been the policy of the [ndian Office to have pupils go home during vacation, where they assist on farms and in other ways help their parents. Mr. Meeitt. We have taken care of that in the bill. Senator La Follette. You have taken care of that already? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator La Follette. Well, that disposes of that. Next, I want to direct the attention of the committee to a matter vhich has been before the committee at this session in the form of a )ill introduced by my colleague making some provision for Indians n Wisconsin known as the Lost Band. This committee authorized I favorable report on Mr. Lenroot's bill, and as it is to carry out 380 treaty provisions, I think it may properly be put upon the appropria- tion bill. The amendment that I propose is to be inserted at line 16, on page 55, as a new paragraph, as follows : That there is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not . otherwise appropriated, the sum of $1,000, to be expended under the supervi- sion of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in the purchase of subsistence supplies in relieving cases of actual distress and suffering among those needy Saint Croix Indians of Wisconsin whose cases are referred to in report of January thirteenth, nineteen hundred and fifteen, transmitted by the Secretary of the Interior to the House of Representatives March third, nineteen hundred and fifteen, pursuant to the provisions of the act of Congress of August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen (Thirty-eighth Statutes at Large, pages five hundred and eighty-two to six hundred and five), and printed as House Docu- ment Numbered Sixteen hundred and sixty- three, Sixty-third Congress, third session. That to carry out' the provisions of the Chippewa ti-eaty of September thir- tieth, eighteen hundred and fifty-four (Tenth Statutes at Large, page eleven hundred and nine), there is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, the sum of $141,000, in full settlement of the claims against the United States of the Saint Croix Chippewa Indians of Wisconsin whose names appear upon the final roll prepared by the Secretary of the Interior pursuant to the said act of August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen, and which final roll is contained in the said report of the Secretary of the Interior, JIarch third, nineteen hundred and fifteen, and in said House Document Numbered Sixteen hundred and sixty-three. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to dis- tribute said fund of $141,000 per capita among said Indians appearing upon said final roll, or, in his discretion, the per capita share of each of said Indians may be credited to him and expended by said Secretary for his benefit in such manner. Including the purchase of land, as he may deem proper : Provided, That no part of the funds hereby appropriated shall be paid to any person or persons as attorney's fees: Provided further, That where any of said enrolled Indians have died since enrollment the Secretary shall ascertain and pay their pro rata shares to their proper distributees, under such rtiles and regulations as he may prescribe : And provided further, That one-half of said sum shall be expended in the purchase of land in northern Wisconsin for agricultural purposes, such land to be allotted to said Saint Croix Chippewa Indians, each Indian to receive land to the value of one-half of his distributive share in the fund appropriated by this act, patents therefor to be issued in accordance with the general allot- ment laws of the United States. The land so selected shall be situated in organized school districts, and not be purchased in bodies of more than one section, and said bodies shall not adjoin each other. Such land shall be selected by an agent of the Indian Office familiar with lands in northern Wisconsin and an agent to lie selected by said Saint Croix Chipiiev,-a Indians. If these two dis- agree as to the value or desirability of any particular tract of land, they shall agree upon a third person, who shall act with the two agents aforesaid In determining such matter of disagreement. No land shall be purchased here- under unless and until the purchasing agents, together with said third, person so selected, shall in person go upon each tract so purchased. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to strike from said final roll the name of Maggie Staples, numbered thirty-nine thereof, and also strike therefrom the name or names of any other Indians who shall bereafter be found to have received an allotment of land on any Indian res- ervation : Provided, That no part of the money hereby appropriated shall be paid to any of the persons whose names shall be so stricken from the final roll by the Secretary of the Interior. Senator Ctjrtis. That says that one-half of said sum shall be ex- pended in the purchase of land in northern Wisconsin for agricul- tural purposes. What sum do you mean by that? Senator La Folletitj;. One-half of said sum, $141,000. Senator Curtis. You provide for a per capita payment of that. Do you mean there shall be per capita payments of one-half of the INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 381 $141,000 and the other half shall be expended for agricultural lands^ . or do you mean one-half of the i)er capita payment shall be Senator La Follette. I think it is made perfectly clear if you will follow the proviso. ' I now direct the attention of the committee to the report of the Secretary of the Interior upon this matter. Perhaps the committee remembers about it. It was all brought to your attention when my colleague, Senator Lenroot, appeared before the committee and spoke favorably to the report of this bill by the committee. I do not want to unnecessarily take up the time of the committee. Senator Curtis. I was not here at the time. You need not read it for my benefit, but if you will let me have it I will read it over. Senator La Follette. Here is the report. ■ Senator Walsh. What was the consideration that induced the in- corporation of this provision in the bill : The land so selected shall be situated in organized school districts and not be purchased in bodies of more than one section, and said bodies shall not adjoin each other. Senator La Follette. I think it was Senator Lenroot's idea that it was better for these Indians not to be located in a body together; that they should be distributed. _ Senator Walsh. Distributed around among the white popula- tion? Senator La Follette. Yes ; that their advancement would be more rapid. Senator Walsh. I have contended for that principle repeatedly and I think it is a very wise provision. Senator McNaet. What report did the office of the Secretary of the Interior make ? Senator La Follette. He reported favorably to the claim of these Indians to allotments. They were not allotted when other Indians were allotted in Wisconsin and those with whom they were supposed to have tribal relations. • They were left out in some way and they have been a sort of wandering band there that lives by hunting and picking berries, and I • suppose begging as well. They are quite destitute and have suffered some diminution of their members by reason of the severe winters up there and the fact that no provision was made for homes for them. I remember some years ago when the Committee on Indian Affairs visited the reservations in Wisconsin we met this wandering or lost band as they have been called, and spent half a day or so taking testi- mony as to their needs and their antecedents and trying to get some basis for some sort of legislation in regard to them. I would be glad to have any suggestions Mr. Meritt has to make about it. Mr. Meritt. The Secretary of the Interior made the report on this bill, and if this amendment contains the changes recommended by the Secretary we will be in favor of the item. I have not had oppor- tunity to compare the amendment with the original bill. Senator La Follette. I beg pardon, but I think it follows the lan- guage of the Secretary of the Interior as to purchase of this land. In the first place, Mr. Lenroot and I conferred about it and we thought 382 IXDIAX APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. at least half of this appropriation ought to be retained for making some improvements and providing some dwellings upon the lands. Mr. Meritt. That will be entirely agreeable to the department. Senator La Follette. My i-ecollection is that we computed it, if you will secure a tract of perhaps not more than 40 acres, I think that is my recollection, about 40 acres for each Indian. Mr. Meritt. Personally I am heartily in favor of the proposition to buy scattered tracts of land among white people. If that had been adopted years ago we would have but few Indian problems now. Senator La Follette. My idea is it would be better to buy a small area of land and leave some money to provide for clearing and cul^- vation of the land and putting up homes or dwelling houses upon each one of the forties than it would be to expend a larger portion of it for land. Mr. Meritt. These Indians are very deserving Indians, Senators, and have been in a pitiable condition. They have received nothing from the Government and the Government is under obligations to those Indians, and we will be glad to have this item go in the bill so these Indians could be provided with homes. The Chairman". What is the pleasure of the committee in respect to the matter? ' Senator Walsh. Senator Curtis examined the report. Senator Curtis. It seems to be carrying out an old treaty provision based upon the report of the Secretary of the Interior. Of course, it is a precedent that may have to be followed in other cases where Indians refused to report and take their allotments with other tribes. That is the only question, but I think it is clearly entitled to go on the bill. The money does not come out of tribal funds; it comes out 3f the Government, all the land having been heretofore distributed, and this money comes out of the Treasury to pay these people for what they had lost, as I understand it. It is where they failed to take their share of tribal property ; they were left out because they were not there. Senator La Follette. They were not notified and did not under- stand anything about their rights. Senator Curtis. There is a precedent for this, as the commissioner will recall, in the Absentee Wyandottes, where the Absentee Wyan- iottes failed to report and take their allotments. Afterwards the Grovemment investigated and found' out there were so many of these [ndians that lived, I do not know where at the time, that had not 3een allotted and had not had their share of the tribal fund; and :he Congress gave them, I think, $16,000, wasn't it, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. Somewhere about that figure. Senator Curtis. $16,000 or $20,000, to make up for what they had lost in not having received their allotments. Senator McNart. That is precisely the same as this case. Senator Walsh. I think there is a very sound basis of justice in ;his. The Government actually went to work and divided up the jommon property of this tribe among the Indians, leaving these Deople out. The Government really gave their property to some 3ne else. It seems to me it has obligated itself, accordingly, to pro- [^ide them with some equivalent. (Without objection, the amendment was agreed to.) INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 383 -CONSTRTJCTION OF ROAD FROM THE VILLAGE OF ODAI^AH, IN THE BAD , RIVER RESEItVAITON. f ^ Senator La Follbtte. Now, my next proposition, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, is to secure an appropriation upon this bill to build a little road from the reservation in Wisconsin. It is the Bad River Reservation, in northern Wisconsin, located some 15 or 20 miles, I think, from Ashland — no, it is not quite so far as that — as a highway extending into it, and a very excellent road from Ashland to the reservation, entering the reservation on the north and running to Odanah, the village where the agency buildings are located. This reservation is allotted largely — I guess, entirely. That highway extends about halfwajr through the reservation. The allottees are accessible to the highway in tSe northern part of the reservation, and thej^ have made very considerable progress in im- proving their allotment. They can get out to this highway. They -can market their produce, but the allottees living south of Odanah, in the south half of the reservation, are marooned there, and their allotments are not improved at all. They have absolutely made no progress. Now, I am asking here for an" appropriation of $20,000, which is reimbursable, the appropriation to be made for the construction of a highway from Odanah, running south through the allotted but unimproved portion of this reservation to the south line of the reser- vation, where it will intersect with the State well-improved and "well-constructed highway road. The amendment which I have to propose has been introduced by Senator Lenroot. Senator Walsh. Senator La Follette, isn't the department au- thorized to take care of this out of tribal funds? Senator La Follette. I think not. Mr. Meritt, is the department :authorized to appropriate this money for the construction of this road out of their funds without legislation ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator La Follette. I think not. I will just read the amend- ment; it is but a few lines to be inserted on page 55 to follow the amendment which has, just been adopted. (The amendment referred to is printed in full, as follows :) For the construction of a road from the village of Odanah, in the Bad River Reservation, to the south line of said reservation, $20,tXK), to be expended under the direction of the Secretary of the Interioi-, said sum to be reimbursable out of any moneys now due or hereafter found due the La Pointe Band of Chippewa Indians: Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior may cooperate with the State of Wisconsin in the construction of said road. Senator La Follette. Now, I would like to hear from Mr. Meritt on the subject. I have not discussed the matter with him at all. Mr. Meritt. This road is very badly needed on this reservation. The Indians have been' given allotments, and because of the lack of road facilities they are unable to get to and from their homes in certain seasons of the year , , . , i • , Senator Walsh. Have they any money out of which this can be Mr Meritt'. These Indians have no tribal funds and their tribal Property has been disposed of, and I would suggest that the proposed amendment be amended, on lines 5 and 6, striking out, beginning with J84 INDIAN" APPROPRIATION BIUJ, 1920. ine 5 and down to " Chippewa Indians," in line 6, and have it read, ' said sum to be reimbursed under such rules, regulations, and condi- ions as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe." Senator La Follette. I suppose there were funds there, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. These funds have been distributed. Senator La Follette. I was not aware of that. Senator Curtis. What is this here? It says last year their income vas $440,000, the value of timber cut $280,400? Mr. Meeitt. We have legislation on the statute books which au- horizes the disposition of that timber, and the money has been pro- bated in accordance Avith legislation already enacted by Congress. " Senator Walsh. How would you do that? Under what rules and •egulations would you seek to reimburse the Government? Mr. Meeitt. Under such rules, regulations, and conditions as the 5ecretary of the Interior may prescribe. The only way I know how ,0 reimburse this would be to charge the Indian allottees owning ands along the road a certain portion of the cost of the road. Senator Walsh. Make it a kind of local improvement district. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. Assessing pro rata on the land benefited by the •oad? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator La Follette. I wanted to inquire whether there was other imber there that has not been cut that belongs to the tribe and vhether the lumbering operations there have all been closed out ? Mr. Meeitt. The land on the reservation has been allotted and this imber on certain of these allotments has not yet been Cut. Senator Cttetis. You can take it out of that fund? Mr. Meeitt. The legislation has been fenacted directing the pro- ;eeds from the sale of that timber shall be paid to the tribe and pro- 'ated. Senator Walsh. Then, you can take it out of that fund, can you lot? Senator Cuetts.. If it has not been appropriated. _ Senator La Follette. How about the timber on the central sec- ions? Mr. Meeitt. It is possible we can sell that timber and use the aoney. Senator La Follette. I have not been on that reservation for five >r six years. I think Mr. Lenroot has visited it quite recently. Mr. Meeitt. Under the language I have suggested we could control he situation. It may he doubtful whether we could control it under his language. Senator Curtis. I have not read the amendment, but I do not think Tou can make it a lien on their land without their consent. You could ake it out of this fund if it has not been distributed. Senator Walsh. That is what I was going to ask. Will there be ndividual funds out of which you can get it, or how would you en- 'orce the claim against the owners of the adjacent property if you vere obliged to resort to that method ? Mr. Meeitt. The Indians own kinship lands, and they will have Qoney coming to them, and we will get the Indians to enter into an INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 385 igreement for the construction of this road, because they are very inxious for the road to be constructed, and they woukl bind them- selves to pay the cost of constructing the road. Senator La Follette. I am inclined to think that the cost of the construction of the road from the north boundary of the reservation lown to Odanah would be paid out of tribal funds, but I think the balance of the road, running from the reservation, should be reim- bursed in some way, if there is any way to do it. Mr. Meritt. We will do that ; it is possible to be done. Senator La Follette. If it can not be done any other way, then jfou will be paid by benefits assessed against the land with the consent jf the owners; I have no doubt that the consent can be obtained, because it is not possible for them to go ahead with the development Df the reservation without having a highway in there, and it is mighty slow work putting it through by individual operation where it is a stumpy, cut-over reservation. It is slow business and pretty ex- pensive. That is the reason it takes an appropriation of $20,000 to build the road.. Mr. Mekitt. The road is A^ery much needed, and with the amend- ment I have suggested the department will be enabled to handle the jituation. Senator La Follette. I offer the amendment and ask its adoption ifith the amendment suggested by Mr. Meritt, " under such rules, regulations, and conditions as the Secretary of the Interior may pre- scribe." (Without objection, the amendment was agreed to.) VALIDATION OF THE BELINQtJISHMEXT OF .TOHN STONE. Senator La Follette. I think I will have to take the time of the iommittee to read a letter which I have here from Mr. Dennison i¥heelock. I think I can present the next amendment which I shall iffer more succinctly by reading this letter. (The letter and accompanying papers referred to are printed in 'ull, as follows:) Gbeen Bay, Wis., ^[arch 11, 1918. Ion. Robert M. La Follette, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. My Deab Senatok: I inclose herewith a copy of a certain i-elinqiiishmem: lecuted by John Stone, a member of the Lac Court d'Oreilles Band of Chlp- ewa Indians, whose reservation is located near. Hayward, in Sawyer County, ?is., said allotment being No. 761, described as follows : The west fractional one-half of the northwest one-quarter of section 18 in )wnship 39 north of ranee 8 west, of the fourth principal meridian, Wisconsin, mtaining 74 acres and 73/100 of an acre which John Stone inherited from i^ rlGC6ns'"d wire This relinauishment was executed by John Stone under date of May 8, 1914, >fore W A Llcht, superintendent of the Hayward Indian School, and L. F. Ichpals ' supervisor in the Indian Service. This relinquishment was made ?Tohn' Stone for the benefit of Steve Grover, for the reason "that Stevo rovpr the father of Maggie Grover, has made valuable permanent iraprove- Ztt nn the land and is his permanent home, and I feel that he should be in ee and undisputed possession of the same/' declared by the grantor in said nfnnii^hment and further shown by the conveyance executed October 5, 190'o, copy of which is also inclosed, in which conveyance Steye Grover is especially '^'t^sn'^inclose^ herewith affidavits showing that .Tohn Stone married Mag.gie ro4r the daughter of Steve Grover, on October 5, 1905; that the two did not 106080—19 ^25 386 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. live together for more than a week; that Maggie Grover died of childblitli about the 25(-h day of December, 1905; that John Stone did not contribute to his wife's support. From what I am able to find out this was a case where a worthless Indian boy got a girl, the daughter of a respectable Indian family, into trouble, and where the marriage ceremony was performed merely to legalize the child tlieu in prospect of being born. The incident of the death of the mother now re-iults not only in the disgrace of the family, but in actually taking away their home, which under the law is now the property of this wrongdoer. Fortunately John Stone seems to have realize the situation and voluntarily executed the papers herein inclosed to in a measure prevent a result so un- speakably tragic. The object of this letter is to ask you to have inserted in theappropriMtion bill an item validating the relinquishment of John Stone and directing i\n\ Secretary of the Interior to issue a patent to Steve Grover for the land herein described. Tours, sincerely, Dennison Wheelock. State of Wisconsin, Cr/nnty of Suu\i/er, ss: I, John Stone, being of lawful age and first being duly sworn, do on oath de- pose and sny that I mnrried Maggie Grover, the daughter of Steve Grover. My wife (lied Christmas, 1904, without issue. I hereby relinquish all my right, title, Interest, aud Inheritance to the allotment of i\Iaggie Grover, my wife deceased. Her allotment is No. 761' and is described as the west fractional half of the northwest quarter of section 18 in township 39 north of range S, west of the fourth principal meridian in Wisconsin, containing seventy-four and seventy- three hundredths of an acre. I further depose and say that I do this voluntarily, without coercion, for the reason that Steve Grover, the father of Maggie Grover, has made valuable permanent improvements on the land and is his permanent home, and I feel that he should be in free and undisputed possession of the same. Witnesses : W. A. Light. Ij. F. Micheals, Wasliington, D. C. Subseri))ed to before me this 8th day of May, 1914, at Reserve, Wis. W. A. Light, Superintendent. I liereliy certify that the attached copy of an instrument executed by John Stone under date of May 8, 1914, before W. A. Light, superintendent of the Hayward Indian School, Hayward, Wis., by which said John Stone relinquished all right, title, and interest in and to the allotment of Maggie Grover, deceased, which said allotment is described as the west fractional half of the northwest i of section 18, township 39 north of range 8, west of the fourth principal meridian in Wisconsin, is a true and correct copy of the original of this instru- ment which was presented to the undersigned by Steve Grover on October 26, 1916. W. D. Goodwin, Examiner of Inheritance in the United States Indian Survey at Large."' Rkserve, Wis., October 26. 1916. Resebve, Wis., October 5, .1906. I, Johnnie Stone, give my right and title in my deceased wife's allotment, which' is Maggie Grover's allotment No. 16, the W. fractional i of the NW. J sec. 18 T. 39 a. 6, to the father of Maggie Grover, who is Steve Grover. Johnnie (his X mark) Stone. \^'itnesses: D. E. .Facors, Gov't farmer. Jno. O. Esham. Reserve, Wis.,-. . October 28, 1916. I lierel),\- (rertify that the above and foregoing is the true and correct copy of an instrument executed by Johnnie Stone under date of October 5, 1906, by whicli he gave to Steve Grover all of his right, title, interest' in and to the allotment of Maggie Grover, deceased. W. D. Goodwin. INDIAN APPROPEI^TIOlsr BILL, 1920. 387 iTATE or Wisconsin, Satoyer County, ss: Mrs. John Grove, being first duly sworn, on oath deposes and says that she is a esident of Reserve, Sawyer County, Wis. ; that she Was well acquainted with Jaggife Grover Stone in her lifetime ; that she died on or about the 25th day of December, 1905, at Reserve, Sawyer County, Wis. ; that the cause of her death vas childbirth ; that she was personally present and assisting when the child vas born to said Maggie Grover Stone, deceased ; that the child did not breathe vhen born, but after several minutes it started to breathe irregularly ; that she Iressed it; that the child was still breathing after it was dressed; that the iiother died while the child was being dressed, and the child died after the mother. Mrs. John (her x mark) Geover. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 17th day of September, 1917. [SEAL.] John K. Swenson, County Judge, Saicyer County, Wis. State of Wisconsin, Satoyer County, ss: Mary Coon, being first duly sworn, on oath deposes and says that she is a resident of Reserve, Sawyer County, Wis. ; that she was well acquainted with Maggie Grover Stone in her lifetime ; that she died on or about the 25th day of December, 1905, at Reserve, Sawyer County, Wis. ; that the cause of her death was childbirth ; that she was personally present and assisting when the child was born to said Maggie Grover Stone, deceased ; that the child did not breathe when born, but after several minutes it started to breathe irregularly ; that Mrs. John Grover dressed it ; that the child was still breathing after it was dressed ; that the mother died while the child was being dressed, and the child died after the mother. Mabt (her x mark) Coon. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 17th day of September, A. D. 1917. [seal.] John K. Swenson, County Judge, Sawyer County, Wis. ?tate of Wisconsin. Sawyer County, ss: I, Steve Grover, being first dul.v sworn, depose and, say that I reside at Re- serve, Sa^^-yer County, Wis. ; that I was well acquainted with .John Stone ; that when said John Stone married nij- daughter she lived with me at my house and lived there until her death. John Sroue did not clothe my daughter after her marriage with him. He did not support her up to the time of her death, and I went to the expense of her burial. .A^t the time of her marriage she borrowed clothes to wear to Hayward. I asked .John Stone to let me ha\e the allotment she. owned and he consented and made out papers to that effect (»etnber 5, 1906, iu the presence of D. E. Jacobs and Ira O. Isham. He then gave ine another paper turning over this land to me, both of which 1 still have In my possession. Sieve (his it mark) CIeovkk. Subscribed and sworn to before me this od day of May, A. D. 1917. [seat..] John K. Swenson, County Judge, Satoyer Couniy, Wtn. State ok Wisconsin, Sawyer County, ss: Marv Coon being first duly sworn on oath, deposes and says that she is a resident of Reserve, Sawyer County, Wis. ; that she was well acquainted with John Stone and Maggie Grover, later the wife of John Stone. ,. ., , That in the year 1905 Maggie Grover, having married John Stone, hved at Rtov- 'Iniver'^ her father's house, then at that time on her (Maggie Grover's) 388 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. allotment. They went to Hayward October 5, 1905, to get niarried. John Stone lived there with her a week or so and left. At the time he married her she was pregnant with child. She was sick from this time arid finally gave birth to a full-grown baby, but it was not alive when born. Maggie died a few minutes lifter she gave birth to tlie child. John Stone vva's notified of her sickness and also of her death, but did not appear until she was to be buried. Maby (her x mark) Coon. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 3d day of May, A. D. 1917. [seal.] John K. Swenson, County Judge, Samyer County, Win. State of Wiscoxsi.x, » Sawyer County, ss: Mary Heart King, being duly. sworn on oath, deposes and says that she re- sides at Reserve, Sawyer County, Wis. ; that she was well acquainted with John Stone; that said John Stone is the father of her little girl, who was born October 14, 1905. He has never given anything toward the support of his child. He lived with her in December, 1904, living there altogether three weeks. She asked him to clothe the child, but he didn't. Mary He.\et King. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 3d day of May, A. D. 1917. fSEAL.] John K. Swenson, County Judge, Sawyer County, Wis. State of Wisconsin, Sawyer County, ss: Mary Coon, being first duly sworn on oath, deposes and says that she is a resident of Reserve, Sawyer County, Wis., and was well acquainted with one John Stone, and makes the following statement under oath concerning said John Stone : "John Stone married Mary Quarters in 1909, and lived with her, and had three children ; the first boy died ; and while yet living with his wife he came to my house in May. He came to my house in the night about 10 o'clock, and I asked him why he came here so late in the night. He said, ' I came here because I have made up my mind and have a reason to come here.' He .lumped toward me. I was sitting on the bed at the time, and he threw me backward and held me down in an attempt to rape me. I conquered him and I cried, and he left the house, only to return the next night. These attempts continued until he caught me on the road. He was waiting on the road for me, and caught me, and got the best of me. He talked to me and made prom- ises that he would be good to me. He did not keep his promises, and I lost much of my property while he lived here two years. " He lived here all summer, and after the men returned from hunting on the morrow I was home alone with him. I was pregnant with a child, and I was carrying it then two months at this time, and Mrs. John Quarders came in the house with Mrs. Mary Taylor. A few minutes afterwards her daughters came in — Mary and Annie. " She came and asked me where the gun was that I went and stole from her daughter's house. The three women turned up everything in the house, and finally wanted to fight. Annie Johnson had a club; so did the mother and Mary Stone. Coming into the room, I saw them throwing things around on the floor, and I asked Mary not to do this, and she hit me vsith the club in her hand, and broke it on my head. I grabbed it. and then Mrs. Quarders took up a stick of wood and hit me with it, and then hit me on the back of my head, knocking me senseless. " The children all ran away some place when these women came Into the house, as they were knocked around, and they left. As these women left, we followed them out, with the intention of finding the children; and Mrs. Annie Johnson came back with a stone in her hand, saying she would kill me with it. She hit me witJi this stone, which weighed 15 pounds. It hit me on my left side. This was the cause of my having hemorrhages three weeks later. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 38 .. " ^T^^*^ S*^^ '^^" ^" "^® *i™'' "P ""til "IP -^'l of May, when my baby was bor Mr. John Stone was the fatlier of this child. The child was born dead ; it ws marked with bhu-k and bUie marks. I have scars. (her " Maby X Coon." mark) Subscribed and sworn to before me this 3d day of May, A. D. 1917. i^^^-'i John K. Swenson, County Judge, Sdwper County, Wis. Senator Curtis. Have you not authority to do that now, Mi Mentt ? 1 ou can approve a deed ? Mr. Meeitt. We can approve a deed, but there are certain specis laws apphcable to those Indians. Senator McNaey. I move the amendment be incorporated in th bill. Senator La Follette. The allotment was the property of the gir The father had made extensive improvements upon it', and it wa the only home the family had. (Without objection, the amendment was agreed to.) WISCONSIN BAND OF POTTAWATOMIE INDIANS. Senator La Follette. Now, there is a provision in the bill here a the bottom of page 54 and the top of page 55 for the support and civ ilization of those portions of the Wisconsin Band of Pottawatomi Indians residing in the States of Wisconsin and Michigan, as follows For the support and civilization of those portions of the Wisconsin Band o Pottawatomie Indians residing in the States of Wisconsin and Michigan, and t aid said Indians in establishing homes on the lands purchased for them unde the provisions of the act of Congress approved .June 30, 1913, ,$7.5,000, or » much thereof as may be necessary, said sum to be reimbursed to the Unlte( States out of the appropriation, when made, of the principal due as the propoi tlonate share of said Indians in annuities and moneys of the Pottawatomie Trib in which the^ have not shared, as set forth in House Document Numbered Eigh hundred and thirty (Sixtieth Congress, first session), and the Secretary of thi Interior is hereby authorized to expend the said sum in the clearing of land am the purchase of houseSj building material, seed, animals, machinery, tools, imple ments, and other equipment and supplies necessary to enable siild Indians ti become self-supporting. Senator Curtis. We did this. Senator : We found on examinatioi that those Indians had received all of that money that was due then Bxcept $22,399, so we reduced the $75,000 to $22,399. That gives then the balance that is due them. Then there is an unexpended balanc( in the Treasury that was appropriated last year and the year before according to my recollection, amounting to $80,000 for the two years md we authorized, tentatively, the use of that money by the depart- nent, together with the $22,399. That is, tentatively, subject to youi ipproval. . Senator La Follette. Now, I confess to some perplexity as to tht Jest thing to be done here ; but as it works itself out in my mind I lad concluded to come to the committee with the proposition that an illotment of $50 per capita be made to these Indians at this time, vhich would make an aggregate amount of — I think there are 309 oi hem of about $15,000. That as to a further expenditure there the aatter be allowed to rest until I can go, as I want to personally this ummer upon the lands that have been purchased there and make 390 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILX,, 1920. some investigation. If a subcommittee of this committee should be appointed for visiting the reservations in Minnesota and elsewhere in that section of our country, then I should like very much to have them visit this particular section and look over these lands. It has come to me from Mr. Dennison Wheelock, in whom I have a good deal of confidence, that the lands which have been purchased for the Indians under the provisions of law which have been hereto- fore made have been pretty badly selected. I am apprehensive that somebody unacquainted with the character of the lands there in that section of the State has been misled, and it may be somewhat care- lessly performed the work in question. I am advised that there are lands purchased there that it will be almost impossible to make any use of — very stony. I have some photographs here of some portions of the land purchased for the Pottawatomies under legislation which has heretofore been passed by Congress, and I have been through that section of the State a great many times. I know that there are whole areas — large areas there — where these bowlders crop out and ledges of rocks. I would undertake to say that there are 40-acre tracts, and I do not know but what there are tracts twice as large as, that, where you can cross them and not step on the ground at all, just go from one stone to another, and from what I have learned about it I am apprehensive that the matter ought to have further — ■ that the thing has not been very well done, to say the least. I am not charging anybody with any intentional wrongdoing here. I want to look into it. Senator Walsh. What part of the State is this? Senator La Follette. It is in the northeastern portion of the State, or north-central part of the State, east of the central part of the State. Senator Walsh. What was paid for the land of that character? Senator La Follette. I am not quite able to say. Mr. Meritt can give the information, I guess. Now, I will just read a short letter from Mr. Wheelock about the matter, with the permission of the committee. (The letter referred to is printed in full, as follows :) Gbben Bay, Wis., February 6, 1919. Hon. KoBT. M. La Foluttte, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. Deae Sib: On page 56, beginning at line 17 of the Indian appropriation bill for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1920, now pending in the House as H. R. 14756, with the calendar No. 335, there appears an item for the support and civilization of those portions of the Wisconsin Band of Pottawatomie Indians re- siding in the State of Wisconsin and Michigan, and to aid said Indians in estab- lishni": Uoiise on tiie land priivldert for them under the provisions of the act of Congress approved June 30, 1913, which item appropriates the sum of $75 000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, which the Secretary of the Interior is authorized to expend in the clearing of land and the purchase of houses, building material, seed, animals, machinery, tools, implements, and other equipment and supplies necessary to enable said Indians to become self- supporting. A great deal of correspondence has been had with the Indian Office and with yourself in reference to the character of the land purchased. A delegation was in my office the other day and asked me to write you again for tile puriiose of presenting the entire matter to the Committee on Indian Affairs of the Senate for investigation. They tell me that the land is very stony and practically untlUable, and the buildings which are being built thereon are poorly constructed, the work being done by jobbers and not by the Indians INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. 391 !; themselves. The timber used is not properly dried so that in n 20. However, when the purchase of these lands ^vas made the Indians were not consulted as to how much land should be purchased or where it was to be lo- cated, and it was only after they were notified to select their allotments that they really became aware where these lands are. By reference to the map, you will note how physically impossible it will be for these Indians to live at their homes on these allotments and yet be employed with the lumbering concerns which are now located, some as far as 25 miles away from these allotments. If these Indians could cultivate 10 acres for each family they would need horses, implements, and other farming utensils ; but if the Indians are going to be employed in winter, they would be handicapped by having them at the cost of feed and care. If the Indians once disposed of their stock, it would not be probable that they would repurchase them to continue the cultivation of their land the following spring, so that in the course of two or three years all this land improved by the expenditure of $30 or $40 per acre will have gone back to brush and weeds, and perhaps the buildings abandoned ; and as the law pro- vides that this land shall be allotted to these Indians under the provisions of the general allotment act, the expiration of the 2.5-year trust period would find these lands in the original condition in which the Government purchased them from the lumbering companies with no Indians perhaps to claim interest by reason of anything valuable being thereon. Yet the Indian's money, amounting to $200,000, will have been sunk in that sort of transaction. If I may be permitted to suggest a remedy I would say that the simplest method is to abolish the Laona Indian School, pay the claim of these Indians, let them buy their own land if they desire to, and let the United States bear the loss for the purchase made under the above appropriation. The Indians can take care of themselves far better than the Government can. Very respectfully, Dennison Wheelock. Senator La Follette. Referring to the itemized statement on page 4 of that letter, I can not help saying that it seems to me an undue proportion of that appropriation was expended in salaries, wages, expenses, and transportation. Five thousand dollars and over was expended in that way and about $12,000 or $14,000 in supplies. There is another communication here from Mr. Wheelock, which I also will read. (The letter referred to is printed in full, as follows:) Gkeen Bay, Wis., Pehruary 25, 1918. Hon. RoBEKT M. La Follette, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. My Dear Senatok: Referring to my letter to you of February 8, 1918, with regard to the Wisconsin Band of Potawatomi Indians, I now inclose herewith a letter .iust received from the secretary of the Indian Rights Association, which I wish you would read and return to me. You will notice that Commissioner Sells takes exception to Mr. Sniffen's statements regarding the character of the lands purchased and asserted that in most instances the Indians selected these tracts themselves. Mr. Sniffen was up in Forest County personally last sum- mer and saw some of these lands and knows the general character of Forest County lands. As there seems to be quite a question as to the character of the lands pur- chased, whether the Indians were consulted or not when the lands were purchased, and whether such purchase is beneficial to said Indians — and there seems to be a confiict of not only opinion but of statements of fact — I desire to withdraw my recommendation made in my letter of February 8, 1918, to dis- continue the Laona Indian School, pay the claim of these Indians, and let them purchase their o\-^-n lands, if they saw fit to do so. and let the Government assume the loss, and in place thereof I respectfully urge that a tlKjrough inves- tigation of this matter be ordered, and that the Indians be permitted to use $5,000 for the purpose of presenting their side of the controversy, with the right to have counsel appear in their behalf of their own selection. Yours, sincerely, Dennison Wheelock. INDIAN APPROPBUTION BILJ^, 1920. 397 Inuian Rights Association (Inc.), Philadelphia, February 23, 191S. Dennison Wheeix)ck, Esq., West De Perc, Wis. Deab Mk. Wheelock : While in Wasliiugton on Tliursday of this week I had a long interview with Commissioner Sells. He brought up the question of the Wisconsin Potawatomi lands, and took exception to my statements regarding the character of said lands. I understood him to say that in most instances the Indians selected these tracts themselves ; that Inspector McLaughlin had gone over 10,000 acres and his report was favorable to the project ; that the complainants failed and refused to meet him to present their objections to the charges. This was in April, 1917, Can you tell me if that is a fact? Were you notified of McLaughlin's presence in Wisconsin and of his investigation, and asked to appear before him ? I tried to locate you after the Philadelphia conference, but I could not learn of your whereabouts. As I stated to you then, I was ready to go to Washing- ton whenever the Wisconsin Potawatomi matter was to be considered. Herewith I inclose my notes of your address at the Philadelphia conference. We will be indebted if you can revise this data and make it as complete as you want it to be. In my dual capacity of secretary and reporter my duties in the latter r61e were frequently interfered with, and sometimes I had to miss what was being said. I hope that you are feeling better, and that the members of your family are all In good health. With kind regards, I remain. Sincerely, yours, M. K. Sniffen. Senator La Follette. I have only this to say, that I have no charges to make against anybody, but I want to go up there per- sonally or have a subcommittee of this committee go over that whole situation before we spend all the money that these Indians have. Senator Walsh. There seems to be a very remarkable statement in that letter that there is not any school and there is to be a school, that there is not a pupil to educate there, yet we are paying $4,000 a year. Mr. Meeitt. That appropriation is not for schools. It is for main- taining the agency at Lanoa, if my recollection serves me correctly. In regard to this other matter, Senators, I am not familiar with the details. Commissioner Sells received complaints about the character of the lands purchased, and it is my understanding that Inspector H. S. Traylor was director to make an investigation and report and in order that this information may be before the committee, I will ask permission to include at this point in the hearing the report of In- spector Traylor. WiSCONSIN-WlNNEBAGO AGENCY, Grand Rapids, Wis., AprU U, 1917. The CoMMissioNEE OF Indian Affaiks, Washington, D. C. Deab Mr Sells : In pursuance of the orders contained in your letter, dated April 2 1917 I went to Laona, Wis., reaching there Thursday, April 12, having snent the intervening time in writing my liquor-suppression report in the office at Ashlind When I reached Laona I found Superintendent Bennett absent in Mir.hi!jfln attending court. As he did not return until Sunday morning, April 15, T wflsnot able to Inspect any land the 13th and 14th, as he was the only one connected with the office who knows the description and location of the lands niirchsKjpd for the Indians. In a letter, dated January 18, 1917, Simon Kah-que-dos, James Waum-e-ge- oo tyi fiTirt Willie Mich-i-gaud make the following complaint : '•The Indian appropriation bill for the fiscal year of 1916 provided for an ropriation of $100,000.00, reimbursable from funds belonging to said band of 398 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL, 1920, Indians for the purchase of materials, lumber, and other supplies to build homes for said Indians; and also for clearing certain portions of land heretofore , pur- chased by the United States for the use and benefit of said Indians. " Upon examination of the character of lands so purchased, and on which it Is intended to build these homes, the Indians find large portions of said lands are absolutely unsuitable for cultivation because of swamps thereon, or the soil Is extremely rocky and rough in character, and much of the land is located where there are no roads and other conveniences necessary to a comfortable home life. " You are therefore respectfully requested to look into the building of said homes or confirming said purchases of land until fully satisfied that the Indians can accept allotments thereon with benefit and are capable of being cleared and developed for agricultural purposes." I found that Simon Kah-quo-doz and James Waum-e-ge-sa-ko live more than twenty miles in the woods away from Laona, and that Willie Mich-i-gaud liveO in southern Michigan, one hundred and fifty miles away from Laona. On Saturday, April 14th, I sent a messenger to the home of John Thunder, where Kah-quq-dos was then spending his time, and to the home of James Waum-a-ge-sa-ko. The messenger and his request for these Inrliiins to meet me at Laona were ignored. On Monday, April 16th, I sent the chief of police and interpreter to these men, requesting that they meet me at Laona or any other point convenient to them, where I might ascertain the exact descriptions of those lands against which they were complaining, and which, in their eyes, were not suitable for improvement and cultivation. The policeman was not able to find Simon Kah-quo-dos. It was reported to him In this neighborhood that Kah- quo-dos left immediately after he received news of my having come and joined Dennis Wheelock in another part of the State. The policeman saw Waum-e-ge- sa-ko, but he refused to accompany him to Laona or to agree to meet me. Later in the week I went to the home of Wam-e-ge-sa-ko, but found that he, too, had flown the country and wanted to avoid meeting me. Yet later during the week I went to Harris, Mich., and attempted to see Willie Mich-i-gaud. He, too, had gone to parts unknown to me, having left Monday, April 16, I suppose, in order , to join Kah-quo-dos and Wam-e-ge-s;i-ko. I was warned upon reaching Laona by the citizens of this town and also of Carter that these three men would never meet me and face me with their specific complaints as to the lands. Forewarned, I made preparations to inspect so much of the land as was possible as to each forty acres, and to at least get an idea as to what the general average of the land in Wisconsin and Michigan is. The frost was leaving the ground in Wisconsin ; hence the roads and cut-over lands were extremely difficult to travel over. Blost of the inspection had to be done on horseback, and the ground was in such a condition that it was impossible for them to travel with any speed or without much exhaustion to animal and rider. I am fully satisfied with my inspection, except as to the lands which belong to John Thunder and his clan. When at Camp Pour, I was within ten miles of these allotments, but the ground and trails were In such condition that it was impossible to go there within the time I wished to spend upon this investiga- tion. I saw and interviewed a goodly number of Indians and whites who know Thunder's lands well, and without exception their opinions were 'that these lands are superior as a whole to any of the other bought by Mr. Hines. I am giving you below the exact description of each piece inspected by me, by going over it, through it, and around. I am doing this in order. that you may refer to it to ascertain just what was viewed personally by me~. The report on the remainder is deduced from the opinion of others, both Indian and whites, interviewed by me : WISCONSIN. Section 14, township 36, range 13 west. Section 26, township 36, range 13 west. Section 36, township 36, range 13 west. Section 2, township 35, range 13 west. NW. i of the NE. i of section 27, township 36, range 13 west. SW. 1 of the NE. i of section 27, township 36, range 13 west. SE. i of the SW. i of section 27, township 36, range 13 west. NE. i of the SW. i of section 27, -township 36, range 13 west. NW. i of the SE. l of section 27, township 36, range 13 west. SW. i of the SE. i of section 27, township 86, range 13 West. NW. i of the NW. i of section 34, township 36, range 13 west. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 399 NE. i of the NW. J of section 34, township 36, range 13 west. NW. i of the NE. J of section 34, township 36, range 13 west. NE. i of tlie NE. i of section 34, township 36, range 13 west. SE. i of the NW. i of section 35, township 36, range 13 west. SW. J of the NW. i of section 35, township 36, range 13 west. NE. i of the SW. i of section 35, township 36, range 13 west. NW. i of the SE. i of section 35, township 36, range 13 west. SW. i of section 32, township 35, range 15. B. i of the NW. i of section 32, township 35, range 15. N. i of the NE. J of section 32, township 35, range 15. SW. i of the NE. i of section 32, township 35, range 15. E. i of section 28, township 35, range 15. E. i of the NW. i of section 28, township 35, range 15. NE. i of the SW. i of section 28, township 35, range 15. All of section 36, township 35, range 15. NW. i of section 26, township 35, range 15. SE. i of section 22, township 35, range 15. NE. i of the SW. j of section 23, township 35, range 15. NE. i of the SE. J of section 23, township 35, range^lS. N. i of the SW. i of section 24, township 35, range 15. W. i of section 2, township 34, range 15. N. i of the NE. i of section 2, township 34, range 15. SE. i of the NE. I of section 2, township 34, range 15. NE. i of the SE. i of section 2, township 34, range 15. All of section 10, township 34, range 15. S. i of the NW. i of section 16, township 34, range 15. W. i of the SW. i of section 16, township 34, range 15. N. i of the- SE. i of section 20, township 34, range 15. SW. i of the SE. i of section 20, township 34, range 15. SE. 1 of the SW. i of section 20, township 34, range 15. SE. i of the SE.. J>of section 19, township 34, range 15. N. i of the NE. J of section 30, township 34, range 15. SW. i of the NE. i of section 30, township 34, range 15. NW. i of section 28, township 34, range 15 E. SW. i of the NE. i of section 28, township 34, range 15 E. W. i of the SW. i of section 28, township 34, range 15 E. B. J of section 2, township 34, range 16. SW. i of section 2, township 34, range 16. SE. i of the NW. i of section 2, township 34, range 16. E. i of section 14, township 34, range 16. NW. i of section 14, township 34, range 16. E. i of section 16, township 34, range 16. MICHIGAN. SW. i of the SE. J of section 19, township 39, range 25. NW. i of section 30, township 39, range 25. W i of the NE. i of section 30, township 39, range 25. N i of the SW. i of section 30, township 39, range 25._ SW i of the SW. i of section 30, township 39, range 25. NE i of the NW. i of section 31, township 39, range 2o. SW i of the NW. i of section 8, township 39, range 25. Sw' i of the NW. i of section 21, township 39, range 25. NW i of the SW. i of section 21, towHshlp 39, range 25. SW J of the SE. i of section 6, township 39, range 25_. NE i of the NW. i of section 7, township. 39. range 2o. SW i of the NW. i of section 7, township 39, range' 25. SE 'i of the NW. i of section 7, township 39, I'ange 25. NE i of the NW. i of section 13, township 38, range 2o. SW i of section 24, township 38, range 25. NF ' I of the NE. i of section 26, township 38, range 25. *«« i of the SE. 1 of section 26, township 38, range 25, NW i of the NW. i of section 25, township 38, range 25. TvT V of the SE. i of section 25, township 38, range 25. VF i of the NE. i of section 35, township 38, range 25. N i of the SW. ,i of section 36, township 38. range 2:). NE" i of section 2, township 37, range 25. 400 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL, 1920. While the nine or ten thousand acres described above lack more than one- third of the total number of acres purchased for the Potavvatomi Indians, they are so placed and so described as to give the inspector an accurate knowledge of the whole 15,000 acres. As the authors of these charges have not given the department nor the superintendent nor me a description of the specific lands against which they complain, I could not pick them out. Besides visiting the Indian lands, I also inspected several thousand acres belonging to white farm- ers some of which had been under cultivation for years and some of which Is now being opened up. With a rather free and loose division, I would place the lands in northern Wisconsin and southern Michigan under four classes : First. Hemlock sand dunes or Mils. — This is wliere sand in generations past has been blown into hillocks and is now covered with a thin soil which grows hemlock. This is very poor land for cultivation and soon wears out unless maintained with a constant fertilizer. None of this land was bought fof Indians. Second. Tamarack swamps. — These are the true low swamps, difficult of drainage and seldom fit either for cultivation or pasture or meadow. None of this land was bought. Third. Cedar swamps. — These are not real swamps, but, rather, peat bogs, with considerable water so long as the cedar is standing. As soon as the timber is cut these depressions dry out rapidly and make the finest meadow and pasture known to Wisconsin. As they usually lay near some drainage channel, they can be easily drained with surface ditches, and then show the richest soil in Wisconsin. The owner who intends to use his 40 ax;res for gen- eral agricultural purpo.ses is fortunate to have a few acres of this swamp. None of this land was purchased purposely for the Indians, but In order to secure acceptable forties quite a number of them had a small per cent of cedar swjimp. I saw few pieces which had more than 5 acres. Fourth. Hardwood lands. — These lands are a black, loamy, rich soil, and are considered in Wisconsin and Michigan the equal of any agricultural land in the world. The possibilities of this soil as to ■ production are not yet known. Modern scientific farming has only recently been applied, and' some of the results obtained are startling and almost beyond belief. This soil is prac- tically inexhaustible, and under proper treatment will produce abundantly for centuries. This was the land selected by Mr. Hines and Superintendent Ben- nett as the future farms for the Potawatomies. Northern Wisconsin and southern Michigan are in th^ glacial region. Con- sidering the number of bowlders and the extent of the morains, the glaciers were terminated over northern Wisconsin and at rest over southern Michigan. Because of this, the former lands have a considerable quantity of bowlders, while the latter are practically free from them. It is Impossible to select 1.5,000 acres in northern Wisconsin without taking your shai'e of the rock. I suppose it would be impossible to even secure 160 acres absolutely free of rock. Fortunately the bowlders are all on the surface, and are usually of such size that they can be picked up easily and removed. I saw a large number of farms which presented in appearance a Mississippi River plantation. Every vestige of rock had been removed from the land. I was told by a number of farmers that little dynamite was required, and with their teams and wagons they rapidly removed the rock. I saw perhaps a dozen forties which had an excess amount of bowlders, even for northern Wisconsin. These were not purchased voluntarily by Mr. Hines, but were secured at the request of Indians who desired their children's land to adjoin their own, figuring that 40 acres of such land at their door, to be used for pasture and meadow, were worth more to them than 40 acres of the best agricultural land situated at a distance. Even on such land the soil Is much better than that of the land free from bowlders. The soil with the most rock will produce two or three hundred bushels of potatoes when farmed by a white man. With no accurate topographical survey In my hands, I was unable to tell just how nrach of the 1.5,000 acres was waste land, but from my observation i should judge that about 5 per cent can not be used for agricultural purposes ; but, as stated above, this waste of rock and swamps will produce a splendid pasture and meadow. With the exception of four forties, I did not see one which will not give the Indians more land than he will place under cultivation for many years to come. I met the Indians in council at Laona and at a church 4 miles from Harris, Mich. ; about 30 at each of these meetings. I explained to them the purpose INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 401 if my visit and impressed upon them the Importance of giving to me the de- icription of all lands belonging to them not suited for cultivation and Improve- nent. At Laona not one Indian was displeased with his land. Not one desired o exchange his selection for another from the unselected land. All of them stated that they were perfectly satisfied and demonstrated to me their pleasure n at last having homes. They told me to express to you their appreciation and ieep obligation to the Government in securing this land for them. Heretofore ;hey have been driven from pillar to post at the will and pleasure of the vhite man, and now they are indeed glad to have their places, and wish them speedily improved and cultivated. John Sha^^■ano, now chief of the Wisconsin-Potawatomies, and others gave ne the names of the following Indians who pretended to be dissatisfied with ;helr lands: Simon Kah-quo-dos, John Thunder, William Thunder, Peter Thunder, Frank Thunder, William Barney, Frank Barney, Frank Kah-kah, William Ottawa, James Wanm-e-ge-sa-ko, John Shine, and William Mich-got. They stated that most of these Indians had selected their lands at a distance from the others, but that e^ery one of them had selected his 40 and insisted 3>at Mr. Hines buy it. Chief Shawano told me that he was with Mr. Hines ivhen this land was inspected and that he knows the above facts to be true. Be, Billy, Ke-shick, and Henry aiann stated to me that the selections made 3y the above 12 men are the very finest lands bought by Jlr. Hines, and that iese were the only lands not within a reasonable distance of a public higli- (yay. At the time of purchasing, Mr. Hines pointed out this fault. These nen insisted upon having these lands, and would accept no other nearer 3arter, Laona, and other markets. These three men also told me that prac- Ically .every Potawatomi had selected his own piece of land, and that the )nly exception to this .was when a Potawatomi was absent in Kansas or at some other point. Then a relative or friend selected for him. When Mn Hines began his work among these people, he fixed it as one of his policies, md so announced to the Indians, that so far as possible he would purchase ;he land they selected and desired. When I met the Indians in Michigan, I found there were four who were lot satisfied with their land. Peter Wah-u-das-he-ga was dissatisfied because his land was too swampy. I nspected his 40 and found that he was telling the truth. He had, too much swamp land. Superintendent Bennett at once gave him permission to select mother 40. This will be done this week. Mistress Willie Mich-i-gaud, wife of one of the complainers, stated to me :hat her husband's allotment was too swampy. An Inspection showed that 10 >r more acres were swampy and the remainder had considerable sand on it. [ did not like this place, yet Superintendent Bennett insists that it is one of the )est forties purchased. I would recommend an exchange for Mich-1-gaud, were t not for the fact that he had selected his 40 and last year cut all the timber tom it, amounting to considerable money. Mrs. Elizabeth Peterson stated that her land was too hilly and swampy. I nspected it and found it to be true. I would not have the 40 acres as a free !ift. She was Immediately advised by Superintendent Bennett that she could ixchange and this will be done this week. Her new selection will be around Vilson in aiichigan. Thomas Ky-hick stated that there was too much swamp on his selection. An nspection proved this not true. He had selected one of the best forties that : saw ; at l^ast 35 acres was of the very highest quality of land. He deserves 10 exchange and would not profit by it were he to make one. At least two of these complaints, those of Mich-i-gaud and Ky-hick, were irompted by the fact that the department had just closed a deal for 160 acres djoining an Indian church, which Superintendent Bennett has decided to hold s tribal land for the present, because 70 acres or more are cleared and in a ood state of cultivation. The Indians above thought that by dropping their resent selections they could have new forties within this land. Not considering the above four, all the other Indians in Michigan ar? satis- ed with their selections and wish them speedily opened up and improved, nd they so stated to me when I saw them. I like the Michigan land better dan I do the Wisconsin, because It is free of boulders and has been cut over long and has been visited by so many fires that it can be placed under culti- ation rapidly, with ■ scarcely any expense. Where this is not true there is a 106080—19 2C 402 INDIAJsT APPKOPRIATION BILL,, 1920. second growth of timber, which is now becoming valuable, and which will fur- nish. all the material that these places need in the future. All the Indians I have met were the leaders of the Potawatomies in Wiscon- sin and Michigan. They were, as a whole, men of good standing, character, and truth. When they state, that the Indians are satisfied with their land and wish it improved, the depa,rtment must accept their statements at full value and must stigmatize Dennis Wheelock and Simon Kah-quo-dos as men without truth and agitators with ulterior motives. During my visit among these people Chief Shawano and Billy Ky-shick had a petition prepared by former Congressman Konop, of Green Bay, Wis. A copy of this petition is filed with this report. It was freely signed by every Indian to whom it was presented. The petition denounces Wheelock, Kah- quo-dos, and Thunder, and others, for their misrepresentations, untruths, and agitations and for placing the Potawatomies of Wisconsin and Michigan in ^ unfavorable light before the Indian Office. This petition afiirms the loyalty of these people to ,the commissioner and the office and emphasizes their obliga- tion for the lands purchased for them. The petition again beseeches the com- missioner to improve the allotments of Indians and not to squander their money by paying it out in per capitas. In short, the petition denounces every allegation of Kah-quo-dos and others. This paper was prepared without any suggestion on my part and is a voluntary presentation of the good will of these Indians toward the commissioner and the Indian Office. One of the charges brought against these lands are that they are inaccessible TO public roads. This fault was hot so bad as I expected to find It. Most of the allotments are within reasonable distance of State highways, and it is only a matter of time until the State and county will build roads adjoining all of these lands. Rights of way were being cut through some of the allotments while I was there. Surveys have been made and consideration given to others. John Thtmder and his friends will be without roads longer than any of the others. This was pointed out to them when they selected the land. However, they insisted upon these lands. They now have them and must keep them. In fact, I was told by all the other Indians that If an exchange were offered them, not a one would accept. Kah-quo-dos and Waum-e-ge-sa-ko were exceedingly wise and careful as to tlieir selection. These two allotments are the finest, perhaps, in the 15,000 acres and are adjacent to a neighborhood road and are only a short distance from one of the best highways in the county. This neighborliood road will be improved this year. The complaints they have made against the lands cer- tainly can not apply to their selections. On January 28 the department, by letter, requested Superintendent Bennett to withhold the purchasing of material to improve those allotments com- plained by Kah-quo-dos. As the description of, these tracts were not given and were unknown to Superintendent Bennett, he contended the purchasing of material had been contracted for and is now being placed upon the ground. The only material not purchased is that belonging to the Red Men who follow Kah-quo-dos and his teachings and have thus far refused to consent to have their allotments improved. I examined the material bought and found it to be of the highest grade produced by the mills in this section. Superintendent Bennett was not only purchasing the best material for building that he cotild secure, but also the very best horses, cows, poultr.v, etc., when the Government finishes the expenditure of the money belonging to these Indians they will certainly have splendid homes and farms, and will be fitted in every way to live a useful and happy life. Besi'des my interviewing sixty odd leading Indians I also talked with and secured the opinion of a number, of white men, among whom are the following: Mr. M. D. Keith, manager of Keith-Hiles Lumber Co., at Crandon, Wis, Mr. Keith sold several thousand acres of land to Mr. Hines. He states that Mr. Hiiles's selections were better than the average lands in the Crandon sec- tion. These lands were sold to the Government for $9 three years ago. They lire now being rapidly sold to white settlers at $25 and !f30 per acre. Mr. Keith says that of the thousands of acres he now owns, he will not take less than $25 and none of his present holdings are so well situated as to roads and towns as those sold to the Government. Mr. Woodand, of Crandon, the register of deeds for Horace County, stated that he was familiar with all the lands of northern Wisconsin, having cruised most of it for mills of this section. He says that all the lands bought by the Government for the Indians known to him are at least an average with INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 403 the lands of tlus section. He states tliat the Indian lands have a minimum of swamps and bowlders. He considers every acre of it worth two or three times now what the Government paid for it three years ago. Thomas Hogan is a Scotch gardener for the Bay Shore Lumber Co. at Camp Four. He has been farming and gardening the lands of northern Wisconsin for more than 40 years. He has also worl^ed for many of the mills and lumber com- panies of this section and knows the land thoroughly. He says that, so far as .he knows, the lands purchased for the Indians are above the average and have far more cultivatable land than they will use for another generation. Harry McGraw, secretary of the Bay Shore Lumber Co., at Soperton, Wis., states that the land sold by his company to the Indians is on an average with the land now owned by them. He further states that they are now selling their land at $30 per acre. Mr. W. S. Slater, of Carter, states that the \anhs bought around Carter were as good as could be found in this section and are now worth tvnce as much as the Government paid for them three years ago. Mr. E. Hemmeway, of Carter, states that he sold the Government nine forties, «nd that these forties are better than any other land in this section. He filrther states that he sold at $15 per acre and could now easily sell for $30 per acre. He says, so far as he knows, the lands bought by the Government are excep- tionally free of swamp and boulders, considering the land in this section. SIMON KAH-QUO-DOS. James Waum-e-ge-sa-ko and Willie Mich-1-gaud, accompanied by their lawyer, Dennis Wheelock, appeared in your office in January, 1917, presenting them- selves as the official representatives of the Potawatomi Tribe in Wisconsin and Michigan, and while there enumerated to you a large number of complaints against Superintendent Bennett, of Laona, Wis. A few days working among the Potawatomies thoroughly convinced me that these three men are mere agi- tators and would-be leaders of their people. However, only one Is responsible, not only for the misconduct of himself but for that of the others, also. James Waum-e-ge-sa-ko and Willie Mich-i-gaud, a son-in-law of Kah-quo-dos, with the nine others mentioned in this report as the only ones now opposed to the policies of the Indian Office and the superintendent, are mere lieutenants and tools for the chief conspirator, Kah-quo-dos. Were it not for his leadership and agitation the remaining 11 sympathizers would soon fall into line and be- come lolyal to the interests and present policies of the department toward these people. ' Kah-quo-dos is about 52 years old. Little trouble was had with him until about three years ago. At that time Charles Ke-shick, the hereditary and acknowledged chief of this people, died. While living this man's influence pre- dominated and was always in sympathy with the superintendent. The chief's character, truth, and energy' were so well known to his people that no agitator could secure recognition. Immediately upon his death Kah-quo-dos presumptu- ously assumed leadership, and while he has been able to secure but few fol- lowers, he has teen a continuous source of trouble and annoyance to the depart- ment and to the employees at Laona. This man is absolutely devoid of char- acter and principle and is in no way worthy of the least recognition from the department. In his 52 years of life he has never worked, but has been a grafter and moocher upon the resources of his neighbors and friends. He is by far the hardest drinker among the Potawatomies and seldom draws a sober breath when he has the money and opportunity to secure whisky. Practically every word he speaks and every action he has prove him a liar and a man devoid of all good characteristics. More than 60 of the leading Potawatomi men stig- matized him to me as unworthy of belief and consideration. The petition in- closed with this report and signed by the good Indians emphasizes their con- tempt for him and Dennis Wheelock. When Ke-shick died Kah-quo-dos boldly went to the chief's home and assumed Euardianship over the property and person of Bibonsl, an imbecile heir of Pharles Ke-shick, who is 38 years old. This self-appointed guardian began at once to dispose of all property that was loose and movable. Among the property -old were three ponies, and from this sale he paid a minimum amount to the burial expense and placed the rest in his pocket. With $75 received from one ^-f the Donies he visited a near-by city and spent all the money in a drunken de- rail ch When Supt. Bennett took charge of this imbecile's property and aenied Kah-quo-dos any of the resources of the estate he made an enemy 404 IWMABT APPKOPBIATION BILL, 1920. who has been relentlessly filing every charge possible, paying absolutely no atten- tion to its character, justness, and truth. While I was on this worlj I talked over the phone with an Indian at Carter, trying to ascertain the whereabouts of Kah-quo-dos. The Indian Informed me that Kah-quo-dos was at Marinette with Dennis Wheelock securing a natural guardian for Bibonsi, the imbecile. I turned the matter over to -Supt. Ben- ' nett, who at once called the judge of ■ the probate court at Marinette and received the direct information that in an hour previous the judge had appointed •John Thunder, a friend and lieutenant of Kah-quo-dos, as the guardian of Bibonsi, and that the Government must turn over to him whatever property the- estate had. Bibonsi Is not a citizen of Marinette County, and has not been for three years. John Thunder, the appointed guardian, is a citizen of Forest County, and never in his life has he lived in Marihette County. Wheelock, Kah-quo-dos, and Thunder all perjured themselves when they represented to the probate court that Bibonsi and John Thunder were legal residents of Marinette County. The probate judge who put over this high-handed proceeding was very much outraged when Supt. Bennett ridiculed him and refused to recognize his jurisdiction. He, perhaps, is a cografter with Wheelock and Kah-quo-dos. The imbecile has some sense in that he wishes Supt. Bennett and the department to handle his money and property. He also realizes that he must be taken care of all of his life and is very stingy with his money, seldom requesting any of it from the superintendent and permitting only that which is necessary for the maintenance of life to be spent. In January, 1917, this Indian collected sufficient to pay the expense of him- self, Waum-e-ge-sa-ko and Mich-i-gaud to Washington, securing from $1 to $5- from each Indian who was gullible enough to pay him. He assured everyone, however, that the Indian Office would refund this money as soon as he reached Washington. When they returned within a very short time, having accom- plished nothing and with no money to pay back the contributors, .the Indians were very much outraged, and will not be so gullible in the future, pi order to get back home these three conspirators were compelled to sign certificates in the Indian Office authorizing Superintendent Bennett to deduct from future annuities the amounts advanced them by the commissioner. I imagine that this process will make them less anxious in the future to rush to Washington without the consent of the commissioner. He is constaiitly collecting small amounts from hig friends in order to make trips to Green Bay and South Du. Pere and elsewhere to see Dennis Wheelock and other grafters. I mention the above incidents merely to emphasize the fact to you that Kah-quo-dos is a scoundrel and unworthy of any future consideration unless, strongly corroborated by a better character than he possesses. Kah-quo-dos is reasonably well educated, reads and writes the English lan- guage, and travels considerably. His visits among the Chippewas of Minnesota, Potawatomies of Kansas, and Winnebagoes of Nebraska, have opened his eyes to- the luxuries and extravagances of many of these people. Having this knowl- edge, he has conceived the idea that the $450,000 due from the Government to the Potawatomies of Wisconsin should be paid into their pockets for a free and liberal spending as each individual desires, and that none of this money should be spent for land, homes, horses, etc. - When he learned that I was passing among the Indians he sent word to so many as could be reached in the short time preceding his flight from me, that they should " stand pat," refuse to accept their lands and improvements, and in every way harass the Indian Office and the superintendent until their moneys were paid to them in cash. Fortu- nately, a very large per cent of the Potawatomies have good ideas as to their money, and did not listen to him, and the only ones refusing their improvements are the 12 mentioned elsewhere in this report. ' I am convinced that just as soon as these are impressed with the fact that the commissioner will not pay this money to them in cash, they will request their improvements, and Kah-quo-dos will be left alone in his schemes. The sole and only purpose of this man is to have you pay the Indians their money in cash- that h? may have a richer harvest for his gathering. SUPEKINTENDENT BENNETT. This man is one of the best superintendents, in my knowledge. He seems to know the Indian and his work from A to Z. He is exceptionally energetic very capable and of splendid character. Bankers, merchants, and lumber- men told me that he Is as shrewd and keen a business man as can be found in INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL, 1920. 405 northern Wisconsin, and it i? Impossible to put anything over him in a business deal. He is very enthusiastic as to his present work and is extremely anxious to have every dollar spent for these Indians bring more than an average result. Having been born and reared in Wisconsin, he knows the Wisconsin lands and its possibilities, and unless I am badly mistake in my judgment of him, he would under no consideration spend money improving land which was not suited for cultivation and as a future home for the Indian. He assured me that- he wished to climax his Indian service life with each Potawatomi having a well cultivated farm and a comfortable home. I believe him ; I agree ■with him in that a wise expenditure of the money belonging to the Pota- ■watomies along the line now used by the Indian Office will leave these Indians well fixed and well equipped for a future prosperous and happy life. I respectfully recommend : First. That no fvirther consideration be given to Kah-quo-dos, Dennis Wheeloek, and their disciples as to their objections toward the improvements on these lands. Second. That Superintendent Bennett be encouraged to erect the improve- ments as rapidly as possible, and that under no consideration should the money lielonging to these Indians be paid to them in cash. Third. That Special Supervisor Hines aud Superintendent Bennett be again Indorsed for their wise and economical purchase of lands in Wisconsin and Michigan. Fourth. That the temporary clerkship now In the office, expiring June 30, 1917, be made permanent. With so much improvement under way needing con- stant supervision and inspection. Superintendent Bennett and his son, Robert, mu' t of necessity be away from the office a great deal. Fifth. That the general average of these lands could have been improved liad not Mr. Hines been prohibited by the rules and regulations of the depart- ment from buying sections adjacent to each other and from buying lands under "wWeh the mineral rights were retained. The Chicago & North Western Railroad in selling their lands to the lumber companies retained all mineral rights. The Indian Office would not consider these when purchasing. Respectfully submitted. H. S. Teatlor, Inspector. [Telegram.] Laona, Wis., February 21, 1919. COMMISSIONEB INDIAN AFFAIRS, Wa-ihington, D. C: Answering your message twentieth : Number of houses built, 69 ; approximate •cost each, $900 ; number under construction, 4, approximate cost, |S,600 ; addi- tional number request erected, 15; estimated cost of same, $11,000; number of l)arns built, 13, costing approximately $3,300; number of barns to be erected, 14, estimated cost, $7,000; total expenditure for implements, vehicles, wire, lorses, cows, chickens, hogs, furniture, seeds, Improving land, $13,617. Indians are well satisfied with buildings and other improvements. Bennett, Superintendent. Senator La Folu:tte. I shall be very glad to see it. Senator Walsh. Let me suggest, Senator La FoUette, this money -w&s appropriated for the purpose of buying lands for these Indians, so they might have homes. Senator La Follette. Yes. . .^ -,-, . ^ Senator Walsh. Would it be quite justifiable tor us to maJse a per capita distribution of the monev? Senator Curtis. Well, the Senator means to make a per capita •distribution out of the $23,000 that remains, so it belongs to them and for any purpose Congress may see fi*.- ,.,,„, , ^ , Senator Walsh. Isn't it appropriated m the first place to buy lomes. Sena- $8,000. Senator La Follette. No; $150,000 was expended, all except 406 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BIIX,", 1920. Senator Walsh. From what source does that $23,000 come? ' Senator La Follette. It is what is remaining outside of all the money that has been appropriated of their funds excepting as Mr. Meritt— ^ n j, ^u Senator Walsh. But appropriated, as I understand, tor the pur- pose of buying this land. Senator CtrRTis. No; there was so much money found to-be due them as their share of tribal property ; they had failed to get their share, and that was placed to their credit in the Treasury, and since that time Congress has appropriated all except $23,000 for the pur- pose of buying these homes, all of which, I understand, except $80,000, has been used ; $80,000 still is unexpended. « Mr. Meeitt. Part of this money was appropriated for the pur- pose of buying homes and part appropriated under the head of sup- port and civilization, and part of that money was paid in per capita payments. Senator Walsh. I must confess I have not any very clear idea as to where this comes from. Senator La Follette. It is this item of $7,000 appropriated here for the education of these Indians, and comes out of the Potawatamie funds. Senator Cthrtis. No, sir ; that is gratuity. Senator La Follette. I did not think that it was contemplated that the entire $150,000 first appropriated was to be expended in ac- quiring raw land. My recollection about it — it has been some years since that appropriation was made — was that the $150,000 was to ac- quire so much land as would be necessary to locate these Indians and make some improvement upon it. Senator Ctietis. Farming lands and making homes for them. Senator Walsh. What is the source of this residue of $23,000, out of which it is suggested that this pro rata distribution of $15 shall be made. Mr. Meritt. It was determined after careful investigation that the United States Government was indebted to this band of Potawatamie Indians in the amount of $447,339. Congress has appropriated all but $22,399 of that fund. All of that appropriation, however, has not yet been expended. The following table shows the appropria- tions heretofore made: Date. Statute reference. Purchase of land. Support and civili- zation. Per capita -pay- ments. Total. Volume. ■ Page. 38 39 39 102 166 991 $160,000 $150,000 100,000 100 000 May 18, 1916 $75,000 76,000 75,000 $26,000 25,000 Mar 2 1917 . May 25, 19181 75,000 ToW 150,000 226,000 60,000 425,000 1 Public, No. 159, Sixty-fifth Congress, p. 31, sec. 25. We have expended approximately $150,000 in the purchase of lands for these Indians, according to my information. The Chairman. As the Chair understands the matter. Senator La Follette,' you desire that no action be taken with respect to it at INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL, 1920. 407 this time and that the entire matter go over until such time as a subcommittee of this Senate has investigated and reported. Am I ■correct in that? Senator La Follette. Except, I think,, it is necessary to make small appropriations of perhaps $50 per capita for these Indians at once to make provision for their getting through the balance of the winter. Senator Walsh. Unless otherwise expressed, Senator, that would not be available until the 30th of June, though. Senator La Follette. I want to offer an amendment to cover that and make" it immediately available ; and then also provide that any unexpended balance of moneys heretofore appropriated be held until further action by Congress. The Chairman. Will you prepare an amendment ? Senator La Follette. I will prepare an amendment in accordance with this item. (Without objection, the matter was passed.) Senator Walsh. I think, Mr. Chairman, we might consider it as part of this, a mere matter of form. Senator La Follette. I will submit it to the members of the com- mittee if the committee is not in session. The Chairman. The clerk calls the chair's attention to the fact the matter was approved in the first instance. Senator Curtis. That was tentatively approved, I think; I was in the chair that day. It was tentatively approved. Senator La Follette. I will ask that it be reconsidered in order to make the record right, and subject to the amendment to be pre- sented by me in accordance with the discussion and understanding here. Senator Curtis. All that may be stricken out and you may substi- tute for it. • • Senator La Follette. Yes; and as soon as I can drsfft such an - amendment I will submit it to the members of the committee. ■ (Without objection, the amendment was agreed to.) Extension of Trust Period — Kickapoo Indians, Oklahoma. Senator La Follette. On page 39, after line 8, I will move to insert the following Senator McNart. That is in the Oklahoma items. Senator La Folleite. Yes, sir. That the trust period upon the lands heretofore allotted to the Mexican KipliaDoo Indians in Oklahoma and the restrictions against taxation and alienation existing thereunder be, and the same hereby are, extended for the period of ten years from the date upon which the existing period expires. I want to say with regard to that just this : There was allotted lands there belonging to these Indians upon which the restriction exDires this spring, I should say. I do not know the exact date, but within two or three months, and I believe that period should be extended for 25 years. I am apprehensive that if action is not taken bv this Congress that these lands may be alienated and these Indians become a charge either upon the public or upon the balance of the tribe that is living upon lands to which they have removed in Mexico. 408 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL, 1920. Senator Curtis. Hasn't the Secretary authority to extend the trust period now, Senator ? Senator La Follette. I do not understand the Secretary has au- thority. I may be in error about it. However, I do understand it can be extended by Executive order, by the President, and I have been informed that there is an application for extension by Execu- tive order awaiting the return of the President, at the White House now. I am apprehensive that the — I have understood, permit me to say, that as to that proposed extension by Executive order, that it is only for a period of a year. Senator Cuetis. That will be too short. . Senator La Follette. I am apprehensive that as the law was en»- acted, it provided against this alienation for a period of 25 years ; it provides for only one extension: that if an extension is- made by Executive order under the provisions, of that law no further exten- sions can be made. I have not the exact language of the law in mind, but it reads something like this, as I remember it. It provides that there may be an extension; it does not contemplate, I think, exten- sions from time to time. Senator Walsh. Can we get that statute, Senator Senator La Follette. I am afraid— — r Senator Ashtjbst. Senator LaFoUette, let me ask a question : You propose to extend the period on the Mexicans and Chickapoos. There are a series of revolutions in Mexico. Senator La Follette This relates only to allotments in Oklahoma. Senator Ashtjest. I say, it is there, but the Mexican Chickapoos are very much dissatisfied. Senator La Follette, I think a great many of these Chickapoo Indians are in Oklahoma. Senator Ashubst. That is immaterial. , Senator La Follette. If any of the allottees owning these allot- ments are in Mexico, it affects them, too. Senator Ashuhst. I think it should be done. Senator La Follette. I have a memorandum here that I will read into the record in connection with this suggested amendment. (The memorandum referred to is printed in full, as follows:) lu 1914 at the close of a Senate committee hearing on the affairs of the Mexican Kickapoo Indians in Olvlahoma, it was sviggested that an item should go into the Indian appropriation bill extending for another 25 years the trust period and the restriction against taxation and alienation of the lands allotted to these Indians in 1894. It was further suggested that the department should be directed to not permit further sales of any of these lands. At this tlnie all present, including the Indian Office officials, approved of the suggestion, but the assistant commissioner gave a very emphatic assurance that such action was unnecessary because the Indian Office would immediately provide for the proposed extension by an Elxecutive order, and that there was a firm intention on the part of the office to permit no further sales of the Kicka- poo lands in Oklahoma. Notwithstanding these assurances there was within a few weeks several tracts of this land advertised for sale. / No Executive order extending these restrictions Is found at either the State Department or at the ^^'hite Hpuse. , In order, therefore, to prevent these Indians from again being made the sub- ject of a land grabber's raid, it seems necessary to provide in this bill for the extension of their restriction period. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 409 The records at the White House disclose an Executive order either just signed, or about to be signed, in which it is provided in substance : That where the trust period on lands of Indians allotted on the public domain expires during the year 1919 that the same is extended for the period of one year. This does not reach the case of the Kickapoos because these Indians were allotted from their own reservation lands and not on public lands. It is doubtful if this l-year extension now at the White House in fact serves any good purpose. Authority for these Executive order extention of trust periods is found in the act of February 8, 1887, known as the Dawes act. In this act after providing for a 25-year trust period the following proviso Tvas added : "Provided. That the President of tlie United States may in any case in his discretion extend the period." This 1-year extension is evidently for the purpose of extending expiring periods for investigation or action at a time when business is, not so congested. But the law says may extend the period. The period referred to is 25 years. Does not this temporary extension exhaust the presidential power. He has •extended the period. The law does not say that he may from time to time extend he period. ^ This temporary order at least raises a question which the Kickapoos can illy afford to face. Senator ^A'^alsh. Senator La Follette, the chairman seems to think some of these Indians at least have left the country and gone to Mexico. The Chairman. Well,' they have gone to Mexico ; they have none the less their property there, in my judgment. They came up to Douglas, Ariz., and got their leases. They want this extension. I haven't talked to any of them for years. That is where they got their pay before the Mexican situation became so acute. Senator Walsh. If these Indians are allotted lands in Oklahoma ■ and have left Oklahoma and gone down into Mexico, why should they be permitted, Senator La Follette, to hold these lands without being subject to taxation, at least? Senator La Follette. I do not know that any of the Indians in Mexico are included — on allotments here. There may be some. My impression about it has been that those who had allotments largely remained here. ' Senator Walsh. If that were the case, I would not hesitate. Senator La Folleti-e. I am sure that that is so ; but that is only my recollection of it. Senator Curtis. There are a few Indians in Mexico who still own farms in Shawnee, or around Shawnee, Okla., but they are an Indian that needs protection. Senator La Follette. They are liable to come back here at any time and live here and become a charge here if they lose their prop- erty there. • Senator Walsh. It is really too bad to keep any lands out of the general body of the property of the State for Indians who do not live oh the lands. They lie there unimproved, not subject to taxation at all until they or their descendants choose to come back to the country. Senator Curtis. All these farms, Senator, are very highly im- proved, or most of them are. . -, i . .i. i j Senator La Follette. I suppose, really, a great deal oi the land held by full-blood Indians that are under restriction is not improved. Senator Curtis. They have been rented, Senator. 410 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL, 1920. Senator La Follette. I am not speaking of those lands in particu- lar, but generally. Mr. Meeitt. Those lands are valuable farming lands. I might give the committee information on this subject regarding the one-year trust period to which Senator La Follette refers. That does not apply to these Indians at all. It is not under the authority of the President, to extend the trust period for lands on the public domain. During that year a great many of these Indians will want to sell their lands, and have the restrictions removed. Most of them are competent ; they have gone out among the white people and taken up their homes.. But for the incompetent ones we continue to extend the trust period. As to these lands in question, in Oklahoma, we have prepared the order for the extension of the trust period for the signature of the President. We can extend this trust period for a period of 10 years, under the act of June 21, 1906 (34 Stat., 326), which reads as fol- lows Senator La Follette. By Executive order ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. The provision of the act of June 21, 1906,, reads as follows: That prior to the expiration of the trust period of any Indian allottee to whom a trust or other patent containing restrictions upon alienation has been or shall be issued under any law or treaty, the President may, in his discretion, continue- such restrictions on alienation for such period as he may deem best : Provided^ hoicevcr, That this shall not apply to lands in the Indian Territory. Our practice is to extend it for a further period of 10 years. Senator Walsh. But isn't this land in the Indian Territory? Mr. Meeeitt. This land would come within this provision of the law. Senator La Follette. It was in the Indian Territory when that section was passed ; that was the Indian Territory then. Mr. Meeitt. No, sir ; . it was outside of the Indian Territory ; it was in the Oklahoma side of the State. Senator La Follette. The old Oklahoma; oh, yes. Mr. Meeitt. There is a legal question involved on this extension. Some of the attorneys are contending that the trust period has already expired for the reason that it has been 25 years since the allotment was made to the Indians. Our contention is that the trust period does not begin to run until the issuance of the patent by the Govern- ment, and there is a legal contention as to the trust period, and some of the local attorneys and land dealers have contracts with the Indians for the sale of their lands with the hope of obtaining the land under that contention. However, we shall fight that in the courts. Senator Walsh. How many acres does this affect? Senator La FoLL^mrE. I do not know how many allotments there are. Senator Walsh. I am very averse, Mr. Chairman, to extending the nontaxable character of these lands for a period of 25 years, as to those Indians who have really left the country, and I should hesitate to do it with respect to the Indians who have well-developed farms that are productive. It seems to me that when an Indian becomes a citizen and enjoys all of the privileges and has a good productive farm he ought to contribute something to the revenues of the local government. Would it not meet the case to make that very much IKDIAN APPROPRIATIOlir BILL, 1920. 411 more brief, Senator, say, for five years more, until the matter could be mvestigated ? ■ Senator La Follette. I am very anxious to see it extended. I am hopetul— I do not know that you know the situation. Senator Ctjeo^is. You do not know the situation there. If it is not extended these Indians will be robbed within 24 hours. Senator La Follette. It involves a long story. * Jn^^^°^j. Curtis. We had an investigation and had to recover $250,000 for them, because they were robbed by the bankers and lawyers and doctors. Senator La Follette. They forged deeds, brought indictments- ligamst them. / Senator Curtis. I think the evidence justified the charge that they committed murder. I wrote the report on that. *' Senator La Follette. Senator Curtis was there and made the- ^Investigation. r Senator Curtis. As the result of that report, which was signed by Senator La Follette and myself, they recovered over $240,000, and they forged deeds of every live Indian in that community, and the Indians that had been dead for several years; and afterwards the .|tJnly witness we could depend upon to testify to it was given a half ' a pint of whisky in the morning hj some of those who were benefited by the purchase and he died withm three hours after they gave him the liquor ; and another Indian drank about that much [indicating} at the bottom of the liquor and he came near dying. He was at the point of death about three weeks. Senator Walsh. What is your idea as to what ought to be done? Senator Curtis. I think we ought to extend this. I would say ex- tend it for 10 years, if this statute provides 10 years. I think we ought to do that, and in the meantime we can figure something out for these Indians. They are the backward branch of the old Chicka- poo Tribe of Indians. They are known as the kicking Chickapoos or the Mexican Chickapoo. They have left Oklahoma and Kansas ; they used to live in Kansas. They went to Mexico ; they went down there before the Civil War and came back and went again, and then they were moved to Oklahoma. They have gone to Mexico and come back a dozen times. They are just a bunch, of Indians that will not settle any place and cultivate their lands. • That is all they have to live on. Their farms are in a good community there; they have been devel- oped by tenants and some of it, the evidence disclosed before our committee, was very valuable farm land. As Senator Ashurst said, these few in Mexico come up to Douglas, Ariz., and the agent sends their money down there and they are paid there at Douglas. Senator Ashurst. In a number of cases they had to come about 200 miles to Douglas, and of course they would get gold, and four times out of five they were held up by the Mexican bandits and robbed before they could get back. That did not occur every time, but they were robbed several times. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee ? ; Senator Walsh. I am perfectly willing to pursue any course that Senators Curtis and La Follette wish. Senator La Follette. I am willing to make it 10 years, and Mr. Meritt thinks that will meet the approval of the oiSce. The Chairman. Without objection the amendment is agreed to. 412 INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL, 1920. Senator La Follette. I have the assurance of Mr. Meritt that an Executive ordet- will be issued extending this period for 10 years, unless there be some failure to enact this bill at this time, so that will protect the Indian. •Mr. Meeitt. There were two items passed over and that will com- plete the items that we want on the bill. PEOKATING OF FUNDS OF THE CHIPPEWA INDIANS. The first item is for the prorating of funds of the Chippewa In- dians, and practically all of the Indians are in favor of this legisla- tion. Both factions are agreeable to the enactment of the legislajtjon "with some minor exceptions. The Chairman. We have only a- few days left, and this is quite important. I have no doubt the ladians all favor it. I hesitate at this closing hour of Congress to determinp a question whether we should pay out an additional $6,000,000. How much is it, $4,000,000? Mr. Mekitt. We will pay out between three and four million dollars. The Chairman. I think it would be a very great accommodation if you could withhold this at this time. I am only speaking for myself. Senator Nugent. I a^ree with you thoroughly. Senator. Walsh. I think we would all like to look into the Chip- pewa matters. Mr. Meeitt. In view of these statements, I will withdraw the iteHL Drainage Ditches, Fon du Lac Indian Resjeevation. There was one other item which I was requested to bring before the committee: ' That the Secretary of the Interior be, and -he is hereby, authorleed in his discretion to pay the amounts assessed against tribal and allotted Indian land of the Fond dn Lac Indian Keservation, Minnesota, by Carlton County Judicial Ditch Number One. There is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, the sum of $45,947, or so much there(rf as may be necessary, to be reimbursed from any funds in the possession of the United States belonging to the individual allottees whose lands are benefited, or their heirs, in case of their decease, when the payment relates to allotted lands, and from any funds belonging to the tribe subject to be pro rated, when the payment relates to tribal lands : 'Provided, That no patent in fee shall be issued for any tract of land under the terms of this paragraph until the United States shall have been wholly reimbursed for all assessments paid or to be paid on such tract under the terms hereof. The following justification is offered for this item: The act of August 1, 1914 (38 Stat. L., 582-591), authorized the Secretary of the Interior to approve maps showing definite location of proposed drainage ditches made under the laws of Minnesota upon tribal and allotted lands of the Fond du Lac Indian Reservation in Carlton County Judicial Ditch No. 1. It also authorized the Secretary of the Interior to approve right-of-way deeds from such allottees or their heirs as may be necessary to permit the construc- tion and maintenance of the drainage ditches upon the payment of adequate damages therefor. The act of March 2, 1917 (39 Stat. L., 969-978), authorized the Secretary of the Interior to approve maps showing right of way and definite location of proposed drainage ditches made under the laws of the State of Minnesota upon the tribal and allotted land of Indian reservations in that State and ap- propriated .$60,000 to be used in paying assessments, reimbursable from any INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL, 1920. 413 funds Ih the possession of the United States belonging to individual allottees or the tribe. Carlton County Judicial Ditch No. 1 filed an application for the approval of maps showing right of way and definite location of the proposed drainage ditches and for the payment of drainage assessments against restricted Indian lands. In order to be satisfied that the project if completed would be of benefit to the Indian land included therein an engineer of this department was detailed to make an examination thereof. He suggested several changes in the project, all of which wei-e accepted by the officers. On May 11, 1918, the Assistant Secretary of the Interior approved maps showing right of way and definite location of drainage ditches. He also ap- proved the assessments amounting to $45,947 made against 12,305.57 acres of restricted Indian land, with the provision that not to exceed 60 per cent of the total amount shall be paid until after the project shall have been completed and examination made thereof by an ofiicer of the Indian Service to see that the lands of the Indians are drained as contemplated and the local authorities shall have furnished the department with information showing the total cost, together with the amounts still due on restricted Indian land. Owing to the changes recommended by this department and accepted by officers of the drainage project, it was necessary for the county engineer to amend his report to the district court in order that his report should conform to the changes. No work was done on the project during the fiscal year 1918, and the Comptroller of the Treasury has rendered a decision that the ap- propriation contained in the act of March 2, 1917, lapsed at the end of the fiscal year 1918. The report of tlife engineer of this department shows that the land of the Indians is practically worthless in its present state, but that it can be drained and benefited by the proposed drainage project at a very low cost per acre. The assessments levied by the project have been approved, with the provision that not to exceed the amount named shall be paid as assessment for any tract and that before final payment shall be made the local authorities must submit evidence showing the entire cost of the project and the proportionate amount to be charged against restricted Indian land. This action was taken because, in the opinion of the engineer of this department, the cost of the construction of the project will be considerably less than the amount estimated: Since the project has received the approval of the Interior Department, the appropriation of the money will enable the officers of the drainage project to proceed at once with construction work. This item is for the purpose of making the appropriation here- tofore authorized available for this work. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee? Senator Cthitis. You say this has already been approved by the Indians and been and done with their consent and the carrying out of the woi-k has already been commenced ? Mr. Meeitt. It is for the purpose of carrying out the work al- ready commenced and for making available money heretofore ap- propriated by Congress for this work. Senator CtiETrs. Does it make a new appropriation? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Curtis. It just makes available the money that has not been used. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. (Without objection the amendment was agreed to.) The Chairman. The attention of the chair has been called to the following amendment, introduced by Senator Culberson, making ap- propriations for the current and contingent expenses of the Bureau of Indian Affairs: For the completion of the construction of a bridge across the San Juan River at Shiprock, New Mexico, on the Navajo Indian Reservation, $4,226.14, in ad- 414 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL, 1920. dition to the $16,500 appropriated for this purpose by the act approved June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and thirteen (thirty-eighth Statutes at Large, page ninety-one), to be immediately available for payment to the El Paso Bridge and Iron Company, of El Paso, Texas, for extra work and material, the same iDeing made necessary by acts of the Government : Provided, That said sum shall be reimbursed to the United States by the Navajo Indians and shall remain a charge and lien upon the lands, property, and funds belonging to said Navajo Indians until paid in full. The Chairman. Accompanying the amendment is the following letter from the Secretary of the Interior. Senator McNary. X)oes he favor the amendment? The Chairman. I have not read it. It has just been obtained "bj me. * (The letter referred to is printed in full as follows:) Department of the Intekiob, Washington, December 27, 1917. My Deab Senator ; Referring to an amendment to the H. R. urgent deficiency 1)11.1 for 1918 and prior fiscal years, .intended to be proposed by Senator Cum- berson and providing for an appropriation of $4,226-14 for the completion of the construction of a bridge across the San Juan River at Shiprock, N. Mex., the following information is furnished for consideration by the Senate Com- mittee on Appropriations. Under date of January 14, 1914, the department approved a contract with the El Paso Bridge & Iron Co. for the sum of $14,725 for^the construction of the bridge herein referred to, payable from a special reimbursable appropria- tion of $16,500, made by the act of June 30, 1913 (38 Stat. L., 77). The contract, plans, and specifications, prepared in the Indian OflSce, were "based upon data furnished by a local engineer, employed especially for the purpose, and this data proved incorrect as to the location of certain shale foundation for the north abutment, which was found after the contractor started wort, to be at an elevation of 80 feet instead of at 85 feet, as fixed l)y the engineer's data. The error necessitated the construction of a new cofferdam and the placing of the abutment on a foundation 5 feet deeper than the contractor estimated on. While the extra work was in progress a high fiood occurred and washed away a considerable amount of the contractor's material, and also the north approach to the bridge, thus permitting part of the river current to run be- tween the ahutment and the north bank of the river, which change in its course compelled a suspension of work on the bridge, pending the preparation of drawings for an abutment required to meet the new conditions. During this suspension further damages were done by additional floods, which caused further suspension of the work and delayed its progress into the winter season, with increased cost to the contractor, who, on July 7, 1916, presented a claim for extra work and materials, loss of superintendent's time, damage for loss of material and time, and deferred use of equipment, etc., in tlie sum of $6,274.04. After a careful consideration of the claim the Indian Office was convinced that the contractor was legally, justly, and properly entitled to a greater part of it, and compromised with him for the sum of $5,106.04 in settlement, author- ity for the payment of which, from any funds found applicable and available, was approved by this department on June 19, 1917. The matter was then submitted to the auditor, who certified to the payment to the contractor the sum of $880, the same being the unexpended balance of the appropriation, and the only funds applicable and available, thus leaving a balance of $4,226.14 due the contractor on the approved claim of $5,106.04. It is, therefore, believed that the action of this department in approving the claim should be sustained and the amendment intended to be proposed by Senator Culberson should be incorporated in the urgent deficiency bill. Cordially, yours, Fkanklin K. Lane, Secretary. Hon. Thomas S. MAE;riN, .Chairman Committee on Appropriations, United States Senate. INDIAN APPKOPKIATIOBT BILL, 1920. 415 The Chairman. This was addressed to Senator Martin, chairman of the Committee on Appropriations. Senator Curtis. That is where it ghould go, instead of on this appropriation bill. The Chairman. The letter is addressed to Hon. Thomas S. Martin. What is your pleasure ? Senator Curtis. I move that the amendment be rejected. Senator Walsh. Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not know a thing about it, but it does not seem to me that would be the proper course. This is the statement of the department with respect to the matter: They say they were- wholly to blame about the matter, and the informa- tion is here. Senator Curtis. I will withdraw the motion. Senator Walsh. I have no doubt he could maintain an action on that statement and use the commissioner's letter as evidence against the Government for the amount. (Without objection the amendment was agreed to.) The Chairman. Is there anything further? Chippewa Indians of Minnesota — Expenses or General Council. Senator La Follette. I want to call attention to one matter and suggest an amendment. I was not present when it was considered, and in order to do it I would have to ask the unanimous consent of the committee to reconsider the motion by which lines 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 of page 28 were stricken from that paragraph. As I under- stand it, after the semicolon the following words, composing the remaining lines of that paragraph, were stricken out. Am I right about that, Mr. Clerk? The Chairman. . I think that after the word " available " on the same line all were stricken out. Senator La Follette. Now, as I understand, the effect of that amendment would prevent the general council of the Chippewa In- dians from acting independently of the Indian Office as to the ex- penditure of this sum of $10,000 of their money, and since it is their money and they have used it heretofore to the advantage of the tribe, and, in some cases, according to a memorandum that I have before me, in correcting errors or mistakes of the Indian Bureau, I do not believe that they should be curtailed in the use of that $10,000. In the prosecution of such investigations as they may choose to make, I think they are making for the benefit of the tribe. I would have been very glad if" the Potowatamies in Wisconsin had had a few thousand dollars if the committee could have expended it in checking up the work that was going on there. A very large fund of the Potowatamies was expended, if I am correctly informed about it, and some of it quite ill advisedly. Do I understand that by unani- mous consent it is open now ? The Chairman. If there is no objection. Senator La Follette. That is, that the amendment which v?as adopted is reconsidered. ,, ^, . , „ , • . ., . .. The Chairman. I will say the Chair's recollection oi that matter is that there was very rank, bitter, violent disagreement among the Indians themselves in respect of this matter. 416 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BIUL, 1920. Senator La Follette. I understood all of them were agreed that they wa*nted the Indians to have the direction of tl\e expenditure of that $10,000 without interference or check from the Indian Office. If I am wrong about that, I do not want to run into a lot of controversy here between these different bahds or representatives. Mr. Meeitt. Senator La Follette, you were not present the other day when this item was up. Senator La FoLtEXTE. No. Mr. Meeitt. There is a bitter contest over this item, and especially over the language that has been stricken oiit. Under this language that has been stricken out the mixed-blood representatives here from the Chippewa country have been paying themselves, I think, some- thing like ten dollars a day in addition to their expenses, and they have also been employing an attorney, payable out of this fund, con- trary to the provisions of existing law. The full bloods object very strenuously to these Indians coming down here and claiming to rep- resent them and working against their interests. These lines, in Bub- stance, give the mixed blopds this money, payable out of the funds of all the Chippewa Indians, to come here to Washington and repre- sent the mixed-blood element against the wishes of the full-blood element, and they are bitterly opposed to this language that you are suggesting should be restored. The ■ Chaieman. And for your further information. Senator La Follette, I will say it Jias been suggested, and the suggestion undoubt- edlj will be acted upon, that a subcommittee of this committee go into the Chippewa country this summer for the purpose of making a personal investigation of all the difficulties that hare arisen there. This, I assume, will be done, and they will report to this committee at the next session of Congress. Senator La Follette. I think that is all right. I am heartily in favor of it, and I guess I am the first man who suggested it to this committee. I believe it would be a good thing for' the administration of the affairs of the Indians of this country if every Indian tribe that has funds of its own had the right to a small appropriation to be used by that tribe in its own way to look out for its own affairs. Senator Walsh. The trouble, as I understand it, is there are now two rival councils on the Chippewa Reservation. Senator La Follette. Just look at this, where this thing leads us. Here is an appropriation of $10,000 to the general council, and it is left to the Indian Office to say which one of these Indian councils is to receive that $10,000. Senator Walsh. That is the point I make. It requires the Indian Office t9 determine between these two rival councils. Senator La Follette. Do you not see what a club that holds over the band, to the men that the Indian Office grants the appropriation to? Do you suppose, where the Indian Office has given a weapon of that sort over them, that any general council is going to investigate any of the affairs that reflect upon the Indian Office? Not by any means. One of the purposes of the creation of the Board of Indian Commissioners back in the time of Gen. Grant, men who were not salaried were appointed, so that there might be somebody to have a check on the bureau who would be disinterested. Of course, no bu- reau likes to be criticized. tirblAN' APiE'ROl'MATIOK BILL, 1920. 417 Senator Walsh. Senator La FoUette, if you will pardon me, this |)rbvision which has been Stricken out requires the payment of this cm the reservation by the general council. Now, the Comptroller of the Treasury is obliged to decide in some way whether this group of hien constitutes the general council or that group of men constitutes the, general council, because he has got to be sure that it is approved by the general council. Sehator La Foluette. I see that, and I think it ought to be safe- guarded. ^ Senator Walsh. I take it he will be controlled by the determina^ tion of the Indian Office ; he will not constitute himself as a tribunal to determine as between these two rival groups of claimants. I take it he will accept whatever determination the Indian Office makes. Then you will meet exactly the difficulty y6u speak about. Under this it seems to me the Indian Office would be obliged to determine which of the rival bodies actually is the general council, and then the situation would be fraught with just exactly the troulDles whicli you speak about. Senator La Follette. If you strike out this provision, that is ex- actly what the Indian Office, will do ; they will decide whether this $10,000 shall be used and for what purpose it shall be used. Senator WaUsh. Exactly. ,Mr. Meeitt. If you will notice the language we have placed in that bill, it is proposed to pay expenses of both delegations. Senator, and avoid this controversy that has arisen here. Senator La Follette. I will say that when I suggested this amend- ment I did it upon the information that both sides were agreed that they ought to have the opportunity to spend this -sum of money with- out any check upon them. JVIr. Meeitt. You have )Deen misinformed about that. Senator La Follette. I may have been misinformed. I want to put in the record, as a justification of some of the things I have said, an amendment handed to me by one of the delegations setting forth some of the accomplishments of this expenditure when they were free to use it without any check upon them. (The amendment referred to is printed in full, as follows:) THIRD AMENDMENT TO INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. Page 30, re,7ect the committee amendments to the paragraph commencing with line 3 and ending with line 17, except the amendment In line 13, and con- cur in the House provision as amended by the committee in line 13. At the end of line 17 inserf the foUowipg : "The further sum of $5,000, or so much thereof a^ may be necessary, of the tribal funds of said Indians is hereby appropriated , to defray the necessary eipenses of other Chippewa delegates visiting Washington on tribal matters, the accounts of said delegates to be submitted to and approved by the Secretary of the Interior and, when so approved, to be paid." EXPLANATION. The item as it passed the House is in the identical language appearing in' previous Indiao apprppriatlon , bills. The general council during the last two- years ha's brought to light many violations by the Indian Bureau of the treaties Wd agreements toade with the Chippewa Indians. , There is. attached hereto a ■brfef setting (iut acts on the part of the Indian Bureau In Violation of the 106080—19 27 418 INDIAN APPBOPEIATIOH" BILL, 1920. treaties and agreements entered into witli the Chippewa Indians involving millions of dollars. If prompt action is taken by Congress, the property can be saved to the Chippewa Indians, and the Government will thereby be saved mil- lions of dollars in claims. The claimed illegal acts of the Indian Bureau are set out at length with citation to the treaties, agreements, laws, and authorities. Within the last year his general council has saved to the tribe about 700,000 acres of land and has caused negotiations to be entered into between the depart- ment and the State of Minnesota for the repayment to the Indians of moneys received by the State from lands erroneously patented by the Government to the State and by the State sold. If these negotiations are successful, the Indian will receive compensation for the 700,000 acres Illegally patented apd the United States will be relieved of a claim aggregating about $5,000,000 ' it will be compelled to pay unless the matter is adjusted with the State. This will appear from pages 10 to 12, inclusive, of the brief attached. » The general council ,during the last year has prevented the Indian Bureau from illegally striking down the property rights of a large number of minor In- dian children, as will appear from pages 11 and 12 of the brief. The general council has been the direct cause of the reductions in appropria- tions from the trust funds of the Indians during the last few years. It has. preserved and protected the rights of hundreds of individual Indians against the Indian Bureau. The Indian Bureau has resented these exposures and the action taken by the general council, and is endeavoring to destroy the usefulness and independence of the council. This is set out at length on pages 17 to 20, inclusive, of the brief hereto attached. The ainendment adopted by the Senate committee destroys the independence of the general council, as it deprives the council of the right to expend the $10,000 in its own way. Under the amendment reported by the Senate com- mittee, not a dollar can be spent by the general council except with the consent of the Indian Bureau. This would prevent the general council from bringing any matter to the attention of Congress that the Indian Bureau did not approve of, and it is needless to say that the Indian Bureau would not consent to the general council bringing to the attention of Congress the shortcomings of that bureau. An investigation will be made within the next year by a committee of Con- gress, and If the facts are to be ascertained the independence of the general council should be preserved. A number of so-called delegates have come to Washington during this session, part of them Indian Bureau employees. The amendment offered to the House provision appropriates $5,000 to defray their expenses. This should be kept separate from the appropriation for the general council, see page 20 of the brief. Senator La Follette. I would like to know whether there is any objection to this provision. Mr. Coffey. There are two factions. Senator La Follette. I know that. Mr. Coffey. They call them two factions, but as a matter of fact there is riot. We represent the Chipjpewa Indians of Minnesota. The delegations that are with me represent the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. These people are simply representing themselves in- dividually. They are what we call the White Earth mixed bloods. Senator McNaey. Mr. Chairman, we have this every day. The Chairman. Three or four different times we have gone into this matter. Senator La Follette. Do you want the expenditure of this money controlled by the Indian Bureau? Mr. Coffey. Owing to present condition of things I think it is the safest place right now. Senator La Follette. You have answered ; that is sufficient. Mr. Arten. If you will look on page 192 of the House hearings you will find Mr. Miller's statement to the man that the Indian india:n appbopeiation bill, 1920. 419 Office wants us to recognize. This man has been known by Mr. Miller foi^ the last 30 years; he is a disturbing factor among the Indians. He has caused th,is faction to come on. Mr. Coffee is the man they want us to recognize as president of this general council. The man is crazy; he is what he says here; he has been the dis- turbing factor for the last 30 years among the Chippewas. He comes from the same reservation that I do. He aroused the poorer Indians and said that we were stealing a million and a half dollars from the Chippewa Indians. The poor Indians believe that thing.. I had a letter in my pocket, but I have lost it, where he stated that last winter he had a law enacted here to give us the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians— $500 a head. Now, the poor Indians have been hollering for the last hundred years to get this money. The poor Indians heard this, and he said, there is a law down there ; " I enacted a law down there to give you $500." That is the kind of man the Indian Office wants us to recognize. Mr. Meritt. "We have not recognized either faction. , Mr. Aeten. He wants to cripple our general council; that is all. The Chaibman. This subcommittee, T think, during the course of its investigation this summer will go to the. root of this entire matter, and it is hoped that when it reports to the full committee we will be able to take some action that will finally and definitely settle some of these difficulties. Mr. Coffee. May I submit how that money was appropriated last year? Senator Ashukst. That is in the record now, as to how the $10,000 was expended. The Chairman. It is the Chair's understanding the action of the committee heretofore taken with respect to this item will stand ; that is, that the item will be approved, except the language on line 13 commencing with the word " and " to end of the paragraph will be approved. . Senator Walsh. Let us adopt this amendment — ^that the action heretofore taken will be approved and ratified. Senator La Follette. In view of the fact that there is a com- mittee going to investigate this matter, and that there is dispute here as to whether the Indian Office should be left to supervise the ex- penditure of this $10,000, I will not press the motion. I am certain that the committee would adhere to its former action anyhow. Senator Ashuest. Mr. Chairman, before we conclude the bill I want to take up the question of attorneys for the Osages, because, if I remember the testimony distinctly, while they are divided on many issues, the Osages are agreed that they want an attorney. The Chairman. If there is no objection with respect to the item heretofore under consideration, the action of the committee hereto- fore taken with respect to it will stand: ,. t. a ■ Mr Meritt. In connection with this Chippewa matter, the Assist- ant Secretary of the Interior, Secretary Hopkins, has written a let- ter to certain of the Chippewa Indians, explaining all of the ques- tions raised by them ; and in order that Congress may have this in- formation, I will be glad to have this letter go into the record; 420 mm AN APPBOPEIATION BILL, 1920. (Without objection, the letter is incorjiorated in the record, and is printed in full, as follows:) Depabtment of the Interiob, Washington, March XS, 1918. Mr. John W. Cari,, Mr. Frank D. Beaxjlieu, Mr. Henry W. Warben, Mr. John W. Broker, Mr. B. L. Fairbanks, Members Legislative Committee Chippewa General Qouneil. Washington, D. C. (Jentlemen : t'our letter of February 18, 1918, covering various matters relat- ing the Chip'pew^ Indians of Minnesota, has heien received. Most of the s%b- jects you sublnit are in the nature of general complaints as to the administration of the affairs of the Chippewa Indians and the manner in vehich their moneys are being expended by the Government. These subjects have been given careful consideration and are ansvpered in the order in which presented, as follows : allotments not made to CHIPPEWA OE RED LAKE RESERVATION A8 PROVIDED BT LAW. With respect to your statement that under the provisions of the act of January 14, 18S9 (25 Stat. L., 642), the Chippewa of the Red Lake Reservation should have been allotted, but from some reasons unknown to your people the department has failed, neglected, or refused to make allotments to about 1,10(> of these Indians. You are advised that allotments were not made under the provisions of the said act. for the reason that these Indians themselves were strqngly opposed to accepting their lands in severalty. These Indians maintained then, as they did later, that it was contemplated that they should have and possess the diminished Red Lake Reservntion sepa- rate and apart from the other Indians of Minnesota. In view of their opposi- tion and claim a separate agreement was negotiated March 10, 1902, with them by Inspector James McLaughlin for the disposition of 256,152 acres, embracing the western portion of their diminished reservation, by the terms of which they consented and agreed to take allotments on the remaining portion of the reser- vation, said agreement being ratified and accepted by the act of September 20, 1904 (33 Stat. L., 46). .Following this agreement allotments ^>'ere not made to these Indians for the reason that It was found to be practically impossible, owing to the timber conditions on the lands, to allot them in severalty in an equitable manner so that each and every Indian might receive his or her fair proportion of the timber, only the lake regions of the reserve being heavily tim- ' bered. The difficulty of alloting these lands — some of the, heavily timbered quarter sections estimated to be worth from $10,000 to i|;2b,000 each — in an equitable manner will at once be apparent. The department, therefore, believed it to be for the best interests of the Indians to withhold allotments pending the conservation and disposal of their valunble timber for the benefit of the entire tribe. This conservation plan was in effect approved by the act of Congress of May IS, 1916 (39 Stat. L., 123-137), which created the Red Lake Indian Forest, provided for the proper disposal of the timber, and authorized allotments of agricultural lands to the Indians. The greater portion of the lands of this , reservation are swampy, and until they shall have been properly drained it will not be possible to provide suitable lands for allotments to all members of the tribe. Your further stntement that these Ihdiarts were not aware of the reasons for the failure of the department to make allotments as alleged is not borne oiit by the records, which show clearly that the Chippewa of the Red La,ke ;Reservation were fully informed of the difljcultj; in making equitable allotments arisiog from the timber situa- tion. In fact, thB superintendent of the Red Lake School in the fall of 1913 reijorted the action of the Red Lake Tribal Council vvith reference to the allotrnent sile df timber aijd the eibenditure of proceeds therefrom in the drainage of swamp lands witl^in the re^ervation-^the council voting 83 against an early allotn^ent, with but 30 in favor thereof. In response the Superinteiident in ch'arge of these Indians was advised March 24, 1914, as follows : " The sale of the timber and the construction of the drainage system should precede an allotment In severalty, as a large part of the swamp lands, if re- INDIAN APPROPRIATION BUJL,, 1920. 421 claimed, are desirable for allotment purposes. It Is suggested therefore that wn^i^^" ^^.^"^^Tf'^ *° '•^"* P^'^^inS ^^tl^'i by Congrfsson legSon now before It which will permit of the sale of merchantable timber within thS reservation and the expenditure of the proceeds for the benefit of the Indlanl m puch manner as the Secretary of the Interior may deeni best The Geological Survey, by letter dated January 5, 1914, reported that a drainage system was feasible, regard being had to the quantity of land that could be reclaimed and the cost thereof in so far as lands within the Bed Lake Reservation are concerned. -""^.v .IIL!!''!^ *^n ?^'^\ '®. °* opinion that a postponement of legislation with reference to allotments is advisable, as conditions may so change before the dramage system is finally constructed that an attempt to draft legislation at d^fficult"^ conditions that might exist several years hence would be THAT THE DEPARTMENT UNLAWFULLY TOOK AND SOLD 250,000 ACBBS AND THE TIMBER THEREON AND PAID THE ANNUITIES IN SMALL AMOUNTS TO THE RED LAKE CHIPPEWA. Under the provisions of the act approved February 20, 1904 (33 Stats L 50), ratifying and amending the agreement made with these Indians herein referred to there has accrued from the sales of land and the timber of the Red Lake Indian Reservation the sum of $1,240,738.82, of which sum there has been paid to the Indians in cash per capita $976,652.40 and there has been expended for improvements and disinterring the dead, as provided for in the act, etc., $8,446.50. There has been repaid to purchasers on account of lands erroneously sold $401.36, or a total expenditure of $985,500.26, leaving a bal- ance in the Treasury, subject to further distribution to the Indians of $255,238.56. It is clear from the foregoing that these Indians themselves assented to the agreement as shown by the act, and were willing that its provisions should be carried into effect. Their lands and timber, as indicated, have been sold, and the proceeds paid them, in accordance with the law cited. THAT CONGRESS HAS RECOGNIZED THE COMPETENCY OF THESE INDIANS (ACT OF MARCH 1, 1907, 34 STATS. L., 1034), WHEREAS THE DEPARTMENT STILL HOLDS THEM INCOMPETENT AND EXERCISES CONTROL OVER THEIR TRUST FUNDS. The said act, in effect, removes from the adult mixed bloods of the White Earth Reservation, Minn., all restrictions as to sale of their allotted lands, and declares 'that the trust deeds executed by the department for such allotments shall pass the title thereto in fee simple. Congress, by act of June 21, 1906 (34 Stats. L., 325-353, 'permitted only adult mixed bloods of the White Earth Reservation to alienate their allotments. In 1909, it was learned that gross frauds had been, and were being, perpetrated on the Indians of the said reservation, whose lands were being purchased by whites, and that the lands of minor mixed bloods were also being bought far below their actual value, and were otherwise encumbered and denuded of timber. Energetic action was taken through the Department of Justice to in- stitute suits to cancel and set aside these fraudulent conveyances, many of them from full bloods, who were induced to represent themselves as mixed bloods. Considerably more than 1,000 suits were instituted to recover approximately. 103,- )20 acres of land, so illegally alienated, and for accounting by various defendants for timber cut and removed therefrom. As a result of these suits more than 5,000 acres were recovered to the Indians, $700 were paid in fines, $13,000 )aid for land sold, $45,000 collected for timber trespass and depredations — the let result being that up to 1915 there was collected in cash, and recovered in and values, and for timber settlements and trespass, more than $200,000. The investigation made at the time of the institution of the suits showed ilearly that many of the so-called competent mixed bloods were entirely In- 'ompetent, and had been imposed upon by land grafters, including both mixed iloods and whites, and that had the department failed to take prompt steps to' irotect these mixed Woods, so legally declared competent, they would have been eprived of much of their property, and have been left landless and penniless. 422 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BELL, 1920. APPEOPRIATIONS FEOM TBUST FUNDS OF INDIANS IN VIOLATION OF AGREEMENTS AND EXPENDITURES THEREFROM. Under the provisions of tlie act approved January 14, 1889 (25 Stats. L., 642), Congress made annual reimbursable appropriations for the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota from 1890 to 1911, inclusive, for their support and civilization. In 1911 a reimbursable account vi^as stated between the Indians and the United States, and all expenditures made from these reimbursable appropriations were reimbursed to the United States from the trust funds of the Indians. From ]912 to 1918, inclusive, appropriations have been made direct from the trust funds of the Indians, under the provisions of section 7 of the above act, which reads in part as follows : " That Congress may, in its discretion, from time to time, during the said period of 50 years, appropriate, for the purpose of promoting civilization and self-support among the said Indians, a portion of said principal sum, not ex- ceeding 5 per centum thereof." From the amount appropriated from the trust funds of these Indians for the fiscal year 1917, the records of the Indian Office show that expenditures were made for the following purposes : Regular employees ■- $56, 512. 43- Irregular labor 7, 979. 29 Repairs and improvements to buildings 1, 130. 40 Traveling expenses '. 3, 624. 62 Wagon transportation of supplies , 4, 575. 58 Stationery, printing, and school-room supplies 724. 85 Telegraph and telephone service 844. 31 Heat, light, and power (including fuel) 19,175.75 Dry goods, subsistence, forage, and medical supplies 57,818.10 Equipment 8, 367. 62 Live stock : 270. 00 Building roads (contract) 3,000.00 Tuition of pupils in Mission School 8, 432. 76 Miscellaneous , 2, 770. 43 Total 175, 227. 14 There are 80 employees on the various Chippewa reservations. Including clerks, physicians, nurses, matrons, blacksmiths, farmers, sawyers, engineers, mechanics, laborers, etc., paid from the amount appropriated from the principal fund of thee Indians for the current fiscal year, and the aggregate, salaries authorized amount to $59,197.50, or an Average for each employee of $739;96. Expenditures are made from this fund for irregular employees In the building of roads and in making other improvements on the various reservations. The traveling expenses of the superintendents, physicians, farmers, and other em- ployees in visiting among the Indians are also paid from the above fund. The Item of $4,375.58 covered the expense of hauling the supplies furnished the various Chippewa reservations. One of the main items of expense, aggregating $19,176.75, was incurred for light, heat, and power, in connection with the agencies and schools maintained for the benefit of the Chippewa Indians, and also for the installation of an electric lighting plant for the agency, the boarding school, and the village of White Earth, specifically provided for in the Indian appropriation act for 1917. The item of $57,818.10 Included ex- penditures for dry goods, subsistence, forage, medical supplies, etc., purchased for the benefit of the Indians. A further item of expenditure of $8,367.62 was • made for equipment supplies, including farming implements, vehicles, harness, hardware, etc. An Item of $270 appears in the expenditure for the purchase of a registered bull for the up-breeding of the school herd at White Earth. An Item of $3,000 was incurred from this fund for road building under contract, the expenditure of which was specifically authorized by the Indian act for 1917. The sum of $8,432.76 was expended for the tuition of pupils in the mission Contract school at Red Lake. The item of $2,770.43, covered various mis- cellaneous expenditures, not strictly coming under any of the classifications above mentioned. The Chippewa Reservation in Minnesota maintained from the annual expenditure from the principal fund of the Indians, the area of the INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. 423 lands embraced therein, and the population of Indians residing thereon are as follows : Reservations. Area. Population., 36,486 24,191 48,520 57,078 543, .528 719,935 1,066 Grand Portage 321 LoeiaiLake •. 1,770 NettLake 607 Red Lake 1,492 White Eartli • 6,371 Total 1,429,758 11,617 Th.e funds appropriated annually from the Chippewa trust funds are used also ifor the maintenance and operation of the hospitals for the benefit of these Indians, preference being made to the hospitals at Red Lalie, White Earth, and Fond du Lac, having a capacity for 84 patients, and during the year 1917 1,183 cases received treatment therein. ' The total accrual of interest on the principal sum of these Indians annually amounts to about $288,000, and under the provisions of the act of January 14, 1889, herein referred to, one-fourth of this amount, of about $72,000, is provided specifically for school purposes, the remainder of such interest being paid direct to the Indians In cash per capita. During the fiscal year 1916 the amount ex- pended for school purposes from the interest on the principal fund amounted to $70,994.35, and the amount expended during that year for school purposes from the principal fund appropriated by Congress for these Indians amounted to $54,417.81, so that it will be seen it Is necessary to use approximately $54,400 of the principal fund of the Indians in addition to the amount available from the interest fund, together with the amounts available from the gratuity appro- priations for the maintenance and operation of the schools, for the benefit of the Chippewa Indians. CONCERNING AILEGED USELESS EXPENDITtTRE OF TBIBAL EUNDS FOB NEEDLESS EMPLOYEES, ETC. There are no employees in the service in Minnesota paid from the funds of the Chippewa Indians' whose services can be regarded as useless. These em- ployees are not intended primarily for the benefit of competent Indians, but mainly for the protection of the Incompetent, and for the purpose of bringing them to a degree of civilization where they may be declared competent, and enabled to protect their property and interest against designing individuals. The emancipation of the Indian from his original state to a degree of civiliza- tion and competency which will enable him to take his place without supervision or guardianship among the white people, is the aim and purpose of the depart- ment. You say on page 4 of your letter : " The great body of our people, numbering more than 8,500, are as fully com- petent to look after their own affairs as any like number of the citizenship of ^TMsTatement in Itself appears to be evidence of the fact fat the policy of the Government in the education of your Indians and the administration of their affairs has been highly successful. ^ • i,* ^ 4.u To withdraw Government supervision dver the property and rights of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota to a degree suggested in your letter it i^ be- nev^ would open the way for wholesale operations of a character that would tedl^asTrous to your people. Under Government supervision there is extended to evSv Indian opportunity to attain competency, and place him upon his own r^s^urces Competency can not be automatically conferred upon an Indian by Stan V turning over to him, unrestricted, his entire property holdings but must be the result of education, civilization, and a thorough knowledge of business ™ The^re is an Inherent tendency among many Indians to concern themselves * ^,^^h with their present needs without any consideration for the future, and *°^ ..^t^ctlons are prematurely removed and their allotments are sold and The^rocfeds dissipated! many of them fall to make good thereafter. When the 424 INDIABT APPKOPRIATIOH BILL, 1820. Indian has reached a state that he Is enabled to establish himself in bis home and shows a disposition to engage in agriculture and acquire a spirit of indus- try and thrift, the restrictions placed upon his property can be safely removed. Until such time It will be necessary to maintain agencies and certain employeies to safeguard the interests of the Indians. Many of the employees in the Indian Service receive but very small salaries, as herein indicated, and it is necessary to furnish them quarters in order that they may be induced to remain in the servicer If it should develop that any of the employees of the Chippewa reservations, paid from your trust fund^, are no longer necessary for the proper administration of the affairs of these In- dians, prompt steps will be taken to meet the situation. In this connectioa you are informed that Chippewa Indians are given preference in filling the positions now established on the various Chippewa reservations, where, in the light of their qualifications, such action can be justiflably'taken. White farmers are usually employed for supervisory work among the Indiaqs, for the reason that very ieyr Indians have qualified to fill such positions. How- ever, it has been the policy to employ Indians in such positions as they may bte found qualified to fill. Under existing law a person qualified to fill the position of farmer at a salary of more than $50 a month, mus^ furnish a certificate from the president or dean of an agricultural college of the State in which he ex- pects to serve, or in an adjoining State, to the effect that he is a practical farmer of actual experience and qualified to instruct others in the art of agriculture. Farmers are furnished quarters and also certain Implements fof their use in giving instructions to the Indians. The records show that 10 farmers are employed for all Minnesota reservations, seven of whom are paid from gratuity appropriations, and the other three from the tribal funds of the Indians. PAYMENT OF INTEBEST FUNDS TO HEADS OF FAMILIES AND GUARDIANS. Kegardlng your reference to the agreement of 1889 (25 Stat. L., 642) as to the payment of the interest on the f)rincipal funds of the Indians to heads of families and guardians, etc., attention Is Invited to a decision of the Comptroller of the Treasury, dated Qctober 23,' 1896 (Third Comptroller, 158). An extract from this decision regarding these payments reads as follows : "With their statement as to the obscurity of this legislation, I fully agree, and inasmuch as this practice of making equal per capita payments has been uniformly followed since the passage of this act, I do not feel justified in mak- ing any /other construction than that given contemporaneously with the inaugu- ration of the enforcement o:^ the act. Unless It Is clearly erroneous, a lorig continued, uniform construction of an act substantially contemporaneous with its enactment. Is sufficient ground to regard the question as settled, under the well-established doctrine that in cases of doubt the executive practice will be treated as the true construction of the act. (Edward's Lessee v. Darby, 12 Wheat., 206; Brown v. United States, 113 U. S.. 568; United States v. Hill, 120 U. S., 169-182; United States u. Healey, 160 U. S., 136; Bowler's First Comp. Dec, 215-223; 1 Comp. Dec, 266; id., 379.)" Under existing law and decisions relating thereto, per capita payments are made of the Interest on the principal fund to all Indians in equal shares. THAT THE DBPAKTMENT HAS IjEFliSED TO ENROLL NEW-BORN CHILDREN, AS PROVIDED BY THE SAID ACT OF JANUARY 24. 1S89 (25 STAT. L., 642), AND TO PAY THEM THEIR SHAKE OF THP TRIBAL TRUST FUNDS. In answer to the foregoing comiilaint you are advised that all children born among the tribe to properly enrolled annuitants are enrolled by the superin- tendents in charge of the Chippewa of Minnesota in accordance with section 324 and amendments thereto of Indian Office Regulations, 1904. However, where mixed-blood Indian children of properly enrolled Chippewa mothers and white fathers are born apart from the tribe and Have never once sustained tribal relations — thereby coming squarely within the ruling laid doWn in 1909 In the case of Julia B. Oal^es et al. v. United States (172 Fed. Rep., 305),' such children are not entitled to enrollment or other benefits of the tribe ro which the mother belongs. . I](IDIAl!T APPBOPRIAXIOlSr Blli,, 1920. 425 people have been repeatedly advised thereof and are no doubt fully conversant therewith. Should you know of any specific cases where such parents have had Cjiildren born among the tribe and the children are not enrolle(?. therewith, and ^11 furnish the facts In full, such cases will at once be taken up with the proper field officials and investigated to the. end that no injustice may be done the applicants. In the case of the Kadrie children, referred to by you, who were denied enroll- fflept with their mother, a properly enrolled member of the band of White Earth Chippewa Indians, the evidence shows that the father of these children is a white man and that they were born in Canada after the mother had severed her tribal relations. These children were not born members of the tribe and never once maintained tribal relations. They could not therefore, under the said rul- ing laid down by Circuit Judge Van Devahter, be enrolled or given any other benefits with their mother's tribe. As their na^nes had been erroneously entered on the rolls, they were accordingly dropped therefrom and further benefits with the tribe denied them. PAYMENT OF PEO RATA SHAKES FROM PRINCIPAL FUNDS, ETC. Under the provisions of the act approved May 18, 1916 (39 Stats. L., 135), one quarter of the principal fund of the C^iippewa In(Jians in Minnesota was paid to them per capita, the share therein to each indiviriu 1 being $130.60. It is alleged that the Indian Bureau employees vsdthhold interest payments which the law commands them to pay in cash to heads of families and guardians. The 01?^ cases where the payments of interest moneys are so withheld are those in which the rights of the parties to enrollment have not been established. In t^e regular distribution of interest mpneys per capita the shares of the adult Indians are paid direct to them, and in the case of minors the shares are paid to the parent or guardian. It is believed that it was clearly the intention of Congress that the shares of minor children should be used for their support, but it is not believed that such shares should be used for the minors in cases ■^hei;e the parents should provide for them. Many of the minors concerned h9,ve no allotments, and their share in the trust funds represents their only ma- terial resource. It is therefore desirable that the assets of the minors be con- served until such time as they are considered legally competent to manage their 9,wn affairs, unless it can be showp that the person or persons responsible for the care and support of such minora are incompetent to fulfill their obligations, in. whic^i cases suflScient funds are allowed to support the children. In some oases the share of the minors have been loaned to the parents, where the parents Ijesire to improve their individual property by the erection of homes or the pur- chase of needed Implements, and where this is done it is believed to be proper th^t adequate security should he given. In ijwpst instances the only way in \vhich the funds of the minors can be secured is to require the actual deeding of enough land by the parents to equal the value of the amount loaned. There is stated in your letter the following : , " In some cases the agents give orders upon certain stores for a certain amount of clothing for the children, the money to be paid from these funds. There are many ugly rumors afloat to the efEect that the agents are receiving compensation for the orders from the stores upon which they are drawn." Regarding this charge, the department desires that you submit concrete cases where the superintendents or other employees are receiving compensa- tion for such orders. You must realize that this is a serious charge, and should be^ accompanied by affidavits in order that prompt investigation may be made. There are instances where superintendents giye orders on particular stores, but in such cases, it is done for good and sufficient reasons, which, it is be- Ueved, can be shown if specific instances are cited. The statement is further made in your letter that competent and thrifty Indians have requested the use of a part of their funds vvith ^vhich to buy cows to provide milk for the children etc and that such requests have been refused. No specific case is cited in 'your letter, and it is, therefore, impracticable to discuss this sub.ject further than to say that the department desires fon to submit concrete cases of this kind for consideration and investigation. Regarding your further re- auest (D 15) that small accounts of individual Indians should be closed out, the denartment favors this propositipn in s^ll gases where s^ch action would be for the best interests of the Indians CQi;^cerned. The department also de- sires vou to submit concuete cases where competent Indians are heing denied the use of their individual funds lor the reasons stated In your letter, page 16. 426 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION Blli, 1920. Regarding your statement as to certain small Items having been distributed to a Chippewa Indian named Peter B. Brunette references being particularly made to an item of 3 cents, it is understood that this item represented the balance remaining in his account, and that the same formality was required in drawing a check therefor as would have been required had any consider- able amount been involved. However, this particular case will be further investigated. The reference made to useless employees has been already answered in this letter. EEPOETS OF INSPECTING OFFICIALS HELD TO BE CONFIDENTIAL. In regard to your statement that you have been denied access to the reports of the inspecting officials of the Indian Service, the Incident in question arose in cqnnection with a letter dated January 22, 1918, addressed to the Commis- sioner of Indian Affairs by one Webster Ballingerj of this city, and in response thereto by the Indian Office February 16, 1918, the writer was informed that reports of this character are confidential. These reports contain confidential information frequently on various sub- jects, and are unavailable to anyone not legitimately concerned with their con- tents. The action of the Indian Office in this Instance was consistent with the practice of the department in similar cases. COLLECTION OF $15 FEE IN DETERMINING HEIKS OF DECEASED INDIANS. Under the provisions of the act approved June 30, 1913 (38 Stats. L., 80), and subsequent acts making similar appropriations for the determining of heirs of deceased Indians, a fee of $15 is required to be collected, and such fee Is deposited to the credit of the Treasurer of the United States. On June 25, 1915, an examiner of inheritance began the determination of heirs of deceased Indians on the Leech Lake Indian Reservation, Minn., and completed the work July 25, 1917. The total number of hearings held was 759. The salaries of the examiner and his official force, consisting of a Stenographer and typewriter, as well as alj other expenses incident thereto, were paid out of the appropriation made for the purpose of determining heirs of deceased Indian allottees. Under dates of March 14 and July 16, 1917, re- spectively, two examiners of Inheritance were detailed to the White Earth Reservation, and the salaries of these examiners, together with their official forces and all other expenses, have been and are still being paid from the congressional appropriation made for such purposes. It Is doubtless true that certain data has been collected from time to time by the superintendents and the clerical force at the various Chippewa reservations In connection with the estates of deceased Indians, but such expenses are merely incidental to the final determination of the heirs by the Secretary of the Interior. There are no discretionary powers granted under existing law as to the dis- posal of the fees collected in these cases by the administrative branch of the Government, as the law under which such fees are collected and deposited Is mandatory. ■ONLAWFtTL WITHHOLDING OF PATENT IN FEE AFTER ISSUANCE. Regarding the unlawful withholding of a patent In fee to Joseph Fairbanks until such time as he would pay for stock purchased from a reimbursable ap- propriation, you are informed that in this instance Instructions have been issued to deliver the patent without further reservation. UNLAWFUL WITHHOLDING OF PEOCEEDS DERIVED FROM SALE OF ALLOTMENTS. Regarding your request for the distribution of moneys accruing under the act of March 1, 1907 (34 Stat. L., 1034), this subject has heretofore been. dis- cussed in this letter. (See p. 6.) MAINTENANCE OF WAREHOUSES, ETC. You say, " there is being maintained at every agency, at an expense to the tribe of more 1;han $30,000 per annum, a warehouse, from which these Govern- ment employees receive free their blankets, bedding," and household utensils." The department desires that you submit a detailed statement showing how ytfu INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL, 1920. 427 arrived at this amount, in order tliat the matter may be further investigated. As you are aware, it is necessary at all agencies where supplies are delivered for the Indian Service to maintain a warehouse or storehouse to protect such supplies from theft or deterioration. From these supplies issues are made to the old and indigent Indians, but your letter seems to be a protest against such, issuance of supplies, and elsewhere in your letter you say that about 2,500 incompetent Indians, whose affairs should be supervised, are in need of as- sistance. It seems, therefore, proper to continue the issuance of supplies for these needy Indians. REGARDING USE OP FUNDS FOE SCHOOL PURPOSES UNDER SECTION ' 7, ACT JAUNARY 14, 1889. The expenditure of the one-fourth interest on the principal fund of the Chippewa Indians in Minnesota annually for school purposes has heretofore been^ discussed in this letter, and it has been shown that this fund is entirely inadequate for educational purposes among the Chippewa Indians. Under the policy of establishing a free-school system for the Chippewa In- dians of Minnesota, boarding schools were established, because they were the only schools adapted to the condition of Indians, and it was necessary to collect children from scattered groups and place them in these schools, where they could be properly fed, clothed, and kept in a sanitary condition. As fast as conditions permitted the boarding schools have been discontinued, but where the Indian population is scattered, day schools are not a success. For example, on the Leech Lake Indian Reservation two day schools have been closed and the pupils placed in the boarding school, because the reservation schools are cut up by lakes and streams, so that the children can not get to and from these schools at all seasons of the year. For the same reason, and because much of the reservation is a forest reserve, public schools can not be expected for some years. It is doubtful if the majority of the Indians object to the boarding schools ; in fact, there is much reluctance on the part of many Indian parents to withdrawing their children from these boarding schools. In many instances it has been ascertained that the attendance at public schools has been very irregular. The course of study in Indian day and boarding schools is uniform through- out the service, and recognizes the demand for industrial and academic train- ing. The progress of pupils in Indian schools like that in schools for white children is governed largely by the ability of the individual pupil. It has been found in many cases where progress in academic branches has not been rapid, much benefit has been derived from the industrial training given. This train- ing is of particular value to Indian children because many of them come from primitive surroundings with no example of industry at home. It is believed that the teachers employed for the instruction of these pupils are giving them their earnest efforts. The annual report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for 1916, shows an average attendance of 523.5 pupils in Government boarding schools, and 143.6 in day schools, making a total attendance of 667.1, with a total enrollment of 890- In addition thereto 954 pupils were enrolled during the fiscal year 1916 in public schools of the State of Minnesota, and the tuition for many of them was paid from public funds. Corresponding figures for the fiscal year 1917 show an average attendance of 721 pupils in Government schools maintained from tribal funds, with a total enrollment of 974, and 1,079 in public schools. In addition there are 413 Minnesota Chippewa children in nonreservation schools supported by the Government. In the reservation schools children from five years of age and upward are enrolled and a larger corps of employees is required than would be the case if only the older children were so enrolled. As has been hereinbefore stated the tribal funds of the Indians are being sup- plemented largely by gratuity appropriations for Chippewa children. The statement in your letter that in the Elbow Lake School only six little children are enrolled is evidently based on erroneous information, as reports from the superintendent shows the following: Average enrollment, 11; average attend- The teacher at Pine Point, it is understood, is called upon to do work in addition to the immediate duties of teaching the children. The requirements that one-half of each day shall be devoted to industrial work does not relieve the teacher, who is constantly on duty whether in the schoolroom or among the 428 INDIAN APPB0Pja4:pi0]<{ 9ILL, 1920. Indians. One-half the day is devoted to schoolroom work, and the other half to industrial training. ^ Regarding the sanitary conditions at the boarding school at White Earth, lavatory annexes outside the ijialn huilding, with complete toilet and bath equipmeiit have been provided, and similar improvements are contefnplated at Vermilion Lake. Regarding the statemenit that hunger and cold caused many of the older' male students to desert from the White Earth Boarding School, it Is noted that similar reports have been frequently made in cases where the pupils be- came dissatisfied and homesick, and in some instances, they were encouraged by their parents to run away. It may have been that these buildings unfor- tunately have not been at all times comfortably heated,- but as you are aware the conditions this past winter have been unusual and the demand has been great for necessary coal in all parts of the country. Steps have been taken to investigate. the immoral conditions you refer to af the White Earth Boarding School. It Is regretted that frequently there are pupils enrolled in these schools who exercise a pernicious influence over 6ther children, but when such cases are discovered, summary action is taken. Ap- pi-oximately 49 per cent pt the employees in the Chippewa schools are Indians and it has been found 'difficult in many cases to enforce proper discipline through these employees as it has been found they are lax in establishing a proper standard of behavior, and requiring pupils to conform to it. No pupils are compelled to attend Government schools who Can and will attend district schools with reasonable regularity. Frequently parents remove their children from the Government schools under a subterfuge of placing them in the public schools, and the facts are that in many such cases the attendance in the public schools is not regular. TIME or CHIPPEWA DELEGATION IN WASHINGTON LIMITED. On page 32 in your letter you complained that the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in a letter replying to your request of January 2, 1918, urged you to complete your business in this city and return to your home. The letter of the commissioner of January 14, 1918, responsive to your letter of January 2, 1918, speaks for itself and is quoted in full as follows : Mr. John W. Carl, , , Chairman Legislative Committee. Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, Washington, D. C. My Friend : I have read and carefully considered your letter of January 2, 1917, submitted on behalf of the legislative committee of the General Council of the Chippewas of Minnesota, in which you set out at some length, under 14 counts, the claims of these Indians against the Government arising from alleged unfulfilled treaty stipulations with your people. In brief, these claims are for alleged illegal diversion of school and tribal trust funds, unauthorized taking of large tracts of land, failure to dispose of tribal timber, denial to newborn children of enrollment with the, Chippewas of the White Earth. Reser- vation, and a request for a cessation of the official administrative machinery by which the policy of the Government with reference to these Chippewas is now being carried out on the several reservations. As you are probably aware, a suit was brought in the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia by Mr. Webster Ballinger, an attorney of this city, on behalf of the Chippewa Indians, with a view to enjoining the Secretary of the Interior, the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and the Treasurer of the United States from expending the appropriation made by Congress for the current fiscal year from the principal fund of the Chippewa Indians of Minne- sota for their' support and civilization, and questioning the authority of Congress to make such annual appropriations. After a full consideration of the questions involved in the claims submitted, It is believed that it would not be proper to take up by correspondence the discussion of questions so involved in the said suit pending its determination In the courts. As you may not know, there is now pending in the Congress a bill (S. 3116) to confer jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear and determine all the claims against the Government of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. This bill, if enacted into law, would permit your people to have their claims, of whatever character, properly heard and finally adjudicated. Under date of January 2, 1918, a report was made on the bill, recommending an amendment INDIAlir APPROi'KlATtosr BTUL, 1920. 429 thereto so as to have suitable attorneys selected alad employ'ed ijiiuler existing law and to regulate their fees, and in other ways to safeguard f6r the Indians any contract which they might rnalie therewith. It was recommended that the bill, should the amendmelits suggested therein be m^de, be ebacted into law. With respect to the enrollment of newborn children, you dre advised that Mr.- Webster Ballinger was recently informed at length concerning the regula- tions and the position of the courts relating thereto. He was also advised that, should he have linowledge of any specific cases where children were improperly denied enrollment foUowing the rulings and decisions referred. to, such cases should promptly be talien up, through the supei'intendent pf the White Earth School, in order that they might be promptly acted upon here and that any injustice that might have been done corrected. I wish to assure you in this connection that I am willing to have your people, through their tribal council or a committee representing the Indians of the various reservations, employ an attorney or attorneys to prosecute their claims should legislation of the character indicated be passed, provided, of course, that such contract shall be e^cecuted in accordance with sections 2103-6 of the Revised Statutes, and thereby safeguard the interests of your people in the matter of fees to be paid, etc. I am entirely willing to cooperate with you in getting a proper hearing before the Indian Committees of the Senate and House of Representatives relating to conditions and afEalrs among your people ; however, as you may imow, the Congress is now very busy with most important war matters. I earnestly wish and will expect you to complete your work in this city at the earliest possible date and that you soon advise me as to when you will be ready to return home. Your friend, Cato Sells, Commissioner. BEQUEST THAT -KOLL OF FULL BLOODS BE lEXPEDITED. The act approved June 30, 1913 (39 Stats. L., 88), provides that the senior judge of the United States District Court for the District of Minnesota shall appoint a commission consisting of two persons for the purpose of making a roll of the allottees on the White Earth Reservation, and that said roll should show the allotment number, a description of the property allotted, the name, age, sex, and quantity of Chippewa Indian blood of the allottees as near as it reasonably can be ascertained, and that when the roll is completed it shall be presented to the district court for final approval, and when said roll is approved by the court it shall be final and conclusive. The department has no jurisdiction to determine who are mixed bloods on the White Earth Reservation until this roll is completed and approved by the court in accordance with the act of Congress above cited. The commission above referred to is under the control of the court and not of this department. VIEWS AND KESIGNATIOIir OF FOKMEE INSPECTOR W. H. 6IBBES. Mr Gibbes was an inspector for only a short while anfl resigned principally because his assignment to the district composed of Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan was too inclement in weather conditions for him to remain. His reports were given proper consideration on their merits and acted upon where thev proposed action which should be taken. He did not remain a sufficient length of time in the Indian Service to obtain by practical experience and contact with the work that grasp of the situation which gives to reports of inspecting officers their value to the department. . ^,_. ^. ^^ ^ The broad generalization made by the committee in this connection that everywhere capable and competent Indians who ought to be free and Inde- nendent are kept under the jurisdiction of the Indian Office is a generalization based upon insufficient evidence. The Indian Office has severed the tribal rplationshii) so far as citizenship and competency are concerned of thousands of Indians and is continuing to do so day by day. This plan is emphasized In the declaration of policy, with which you are familiar.,, The broad statement of thp vast preponderance of competent Indians on the Chippewa Reservations is also based upon insufficient evidence, and from reports of those who have thorouehly considered the situation is grossly exaggerated. The inspector making this statement doubtless generalized from a few individuals and not 430 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL, 1920. from intimate survey of the entire situation. Under existing law restrictions were removed from tlie allotments of all adult mixed-blood Indians on the White Earth Reservation, and the very men who signed these statements know of their own knowledge that the great bulk of these Indians are now landless and in all probability penniless. The very fact that many of these incompetent mixed bloods who were freed of governmental oversight became an easy prey to those White Earth white grafters and a few designing mixed bloods is an evidence that the generaliza- tion, both of this committee and of the Inspector, was not well taken. As has been herein stated it has been the policy of the department to protect the Chippevs^ Indians of Blinnesota against designing individuals, to educate them, and to handle their funds In accordance with existing laws. The de- partment also advocates the prorating of the principal fund of ttiese Indians, but It is necessary to obtain further legislation by Congress before this result can be obtained. * Under date of December 15, 1917, a favorable report was made on Senate bill 2548 (65th Gong., 1st sess.), which would enable the Secretary of the Interior to prorate the principal fund of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, after re- serving the sum of $1,000,000 therefrom to be subject to such future appropria- tions as Congress may make for the support, civilization, and education of those Indians. In order that these Indians may also have their claims against the United States judicially determined, the department, under date of January 2, 1918, favorably reported on Senate bill 3116 conferring jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear and determine all claims these Indians may have against the Government. . In this report it is recommended that the Indians should be allowed to employ attorneys to represent them in accordance with the provisions of sections 2103, 2104, 2105, and 2106 of the Revised Statutes. The representa- tives of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota have endeavored to handicap the department In the administration of its affairs for the benefit of the great mass of Chippewa Indians, and under date of September 17, 1915, one John G. Morri- son, jr., on behalf of himself ani other members of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, through an attorney employed by them — namely, Webster Ballln- ger — filed a suit in the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia to enjoin the Secretary of the Interior, the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and the Treasurer of the United States from expending the funds appropriated by Congress for 1916 by joint resolution of March 4, 1915 (38 Stats., L. 1228). Under date of December 9, 1915, the Supreme Court of the District of Colum- bia denied the injunction sought by the plaintiffs and dismissed the bill. The case was then appealed to the Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia, and under date of April 22, 1916, that court reversed the decision of the lovi^er court, whereupon an appeal was taken to the Supreme Court of the United) States. A decision was handed down In this case under date of March 4. 1918, and an abstract from such' decision, informally furnished, reads as follows : " It seems clear that ' civilization and self-support ' among the Indians can not be promoted effectively by disconnected efforts, but must be accomplished, If at all, by definite, permanent plans operating through many years, and in view of the long-continued practice of Congress to provide funds for such con- tinued efforts by annual appropriations, the circumstances under which the joint resolution became law, and the studied Incorporation therein of the lan- guage of former appropriation acts, we think the purpose was to authorize ex- penditures of $160,000 during 1916, as had been done for 1915. A different construction might have occasioned disruption of well-ordered arrangements for advancing the Nation's wards to the great detriment of all concerned ; and to such unfortunate consequences experienced legislators probably were not oblivious." This decision reversed the decision of the court of appeals referred to and afilrmed the decision of the lower court which denied the injunction. The department reminds you that the Congress possesses full legislative au- thority to make appropriations from your trust funds for your support and civilization, and that all laws so enacted for your people are being adminis- tered for their best Interests. Cordially yours, S. G. Hopkins, . Assistant Secretary. INDIAK APPKOPEIATIOK BIU., 1920. 431 The Chairman. If I state the testiir ony incorrectly, some Senator will correct me. While the Osages ar^ divided on the main ques- tions, they are all united in the matter of desiring an attorney. Senator Walsh. It is now 3 o'clock. The Chairman. I will withdraw the question. The Chairman. Is there anything further? Senator McNary. I made a motion a while ago with respect to the Nisqually Reservation taken over by thej War Department, and no ' action was taken upon that, as I recall. I move that the item be stricken out, but the Secretary of the Interior and the Secretary of War were instructed to formulate some plan which contemplates the return of the reservation to the Indians and report at the next session of Congress. (Without objection, the motion was agreed to.) The Acting Chairman. It is the Chair'^ understanding that it is agreed by the committee that the chairman of the committee shall appoint a subcommittee for the purpose of making an investigation into the affairs of the Chippewas and other sections of the country. Senator Ashurst. I hope that will not be (^one ; I am sure I will not be chairman after the middle of May, or at least the 1st of June, and I would rather not have the responsibility. I think it would require special legislation to authorize a subconwnittee to go out of the city, and I hope the present chairman will noir be called upon to designate. any subcommittee to go out of the city. That is done by the Vice President always. I move that the bill be reported with these amendments. Senator McNart. A subcommittee to be appointed to consider Senator Walsh's amendment. Senator Walsh. That has been adopted. The Acting Chairman. That will be done later. (The bill was ordered to be reported favorably with the amend- ments.) Senator Walsh. Now, Mr. Chairman, I introduced this morning a bill conferring upon the Court of Claims jurisdiction to try all Crow claims. The bill was the same as the amendment introduced on yesterday, providing that the fee of the attorney shall not be to exceed 10 per cent, and in no event to exceed $25,000, and the attorney or attorneys must be a membeir or members of the bar of the highest court of the State, District, or Territory in which they act. I ask that the bill be reported favorably. (Without objection, it was so ordered.) The Chairman. Is there anything further? Gentlemen, I am sure I thank you very heartily for your attendance and assistance on this bill. (Thereupon, at 3.05 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned.) •:^*yKl:t'ii.yir-»