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Cornell University Library 
 CT 275.C28L98 
 
 Personal recollections of Andrew Carnegl 
 
 3 1924 Oil 508 177 
 
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PERSONAL RECOLLECTIONS 
 
 of 
 
 ANDREW CARNEGIE 
 
By Frederick Lynch 
 
 The One Great Society. Dr. Lynch writes in 
 
 a chatty informal way of his delightful experiences 
 with many of the World's great men. 
 
 The Challenge: The Church and the New 
 World Order, ismo, cloth .... net 
 
 A forward look taken by a man who is regarded 
 as a vigorous and liberal thinker. 
 
 The Last War. A Study of Things Present and 
 Things to Come. i2mo, cloth . . . net 
 
 Dr. Lynch places responsibility for the great 
 European War where he considers it rightfully 
 belongs, reviews the moral and economic effects 
 and discusses the ultimate issue he believes will 
 follow. 
 
 What Makes a Nation Great? i2mo, 
 cloth net 
 
 " If pastors read this book they will be very sure 
 to preach it."^The Continent. 
 
 The Peace Problem. The Task of the 
 Twentieth Century. Introduction by Andrew 
 
 Carnegie. Cloth net 
 
 Andrew Carnegie commends this book in no 
 stinted terms. " I have read this book from 
 beginning to end with interest and profit." 
 
 The New Opportunities of the Ministry. 
 With Introduction by Hugh Black, M.A., D.D. 
 
 i2mo, cloth net 
 
 Professor Hugh Black, of Union Theological 
 Seminary, says: " The broad and forceful appeal 
 of this book will surely not im'ss its mark." 
 

 y3t,^^if^ /T^^r^d^ ^fA^^^ -- 
 
Personal Recollections 
 
 of 
 
 Andrew Carnegie 
 
 By 
 
 FREDERICK LYNCH, D.D. 
 Educational Secretary Church Peace Union 
 
 New York Chicago 
 
 Fleming H. Revell Company 
 
 LONDOK AND EdINBUBGH 
 
Copyright, 1920, by 
 FLEMING H. REVELL COMPANY 
 
 Printed in the United States of America 
 
 if 
 
 New York: 158 Fifth Avenue 
 
 Chicago: 17 North Wabash Ave. 
 
 London: 21 Paternoster Square 
 
 Edinburgh; 75 Princes Street 
 
INTRODUCTION 
 
 THIS little book is the outgrowth of a 
 series of articles which appeared in The 
 Christian Work of New York. They 
 attracted so much favorable comment that it 
 seemed wise to expand them and put them 
 into permanent form. They cover, in part, 
 a phase of Mr. Carnegie's activities that is not 
 so widely known as are his beneficences, and 
 were revealed only to his friends. Mr. Car- 
 negie's "Autobiography" has appeared just 
 as this book goes to press. It is a rather 
 striking fact that the "Recollections" dwell 
 hardly at all upon the incidents recorded in 
 the Autobiography, but supplement it in a way 
 that I am sure will make all, interested in Mr. 
 Carnegie's career and character, grateful. 
 Frederick Lynch. 
 New York, October i8, 1920. 
 
CONTENTS 
 
 I. How I Met Mr. Carnegie 9 
 II. The President of the New 
 
 York Peace Society ,., 24 
 
 III. The Presiding Genius . 33 
 
 IV. Mr. Carnegie and the For- 
 
 eign Students . . . 50 
 V. The Man of Universal 
 
 Sympathies ... 63 
 
 VI. The Pan-American . . 79 
 
 VII. Lover of Poetry and Music 9 1 
 
 VIII. Views on Education . . loi 
 
 IX. Some Conversations . .109 
 
 X. At THE Banquet Table . 116 
 XL Foreign Missions and For- 
 eign Politics . . .125 
 
 XII. The Philanthropist • 134 
 
 XIII. The Church Peace Union 154 
 
 XIV. Mr. Carnegie as a Relig- 
 
 ious Man . . .166 
 
HOW I MET MR. CARNEGIE 
 
 I FIRST met Mr. Carnegie on a special 
 train to Tuskegee. Mr. Robert C. Og- 
 den, chairman of the Board of Trustees 
 of Tuskegee Institute, had invited about a 
 hundred men and women to be his guests 
 for a week on a special train from New York 
 to Tuskegee and back. The train was made 
 up of stateroom cars with two dining cars, 
 and the guests occupied the train all the week, 
 even while at Tuskegee. (Principal Washing- 
 ton had built a spur from the main road 
 right into the Tuskegee campus. He used to 
 say of it : "It is not as long as the New York 
 Central, but it is just as broad.") It was a 
 very happy party. It was made up largely of 
 University presidents and professors, well- 
 known editors, many publicists, and a sprink- 
 ling of clergymen and authors. Practically 
 every man on the train was a man of inter- 
 national reputation, but three or four stood 
 
10 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 out among all the rest not only because of 
 eminence, but because of the good time they 
 were having. They were In picnic mood and 
 were enjoying the trip immensely. They 
 were often together. I recall especially Mr. 
 Taft, Mr. Carnegie, Lyman Abbott, Presi- 
 dent Eliot and Professor Button discussing 
 international affairs. The Philippine question 
 was then to the front and there was a wide 
 diversity of opinion in this group on that 
 question, and when the talk veered around to 
 the Philippines, as it always did, a crowd of 
 us younger men would gather about this group 
 and listen — sometimes egg the disputants on. 
 Sometimes the disputants would get quite 
 warm on the subject, and then we heard some 
 rare talk. All phases of internationalism were 
 discussed, but on this subject the members of 
 the group were pretty well agreed. But when 
 it came to the question of armament there 
 came a division of the house again. There 
 were a good many educators on the train, and 
 most of them were pretty thoroughly In ac- 
 cord with Mr. Carnegie's views, namely, that 
 the vocational side of education should be 
 stressed, and that saence should replace the 
 classics. 
 
How I Met Mr. Carnegie 11 
 
 It was in the dining car that I first met Mr. 
 Carnegie. I was sitting alone, and he came 
 and sat down opposite me. He immediately 
 said, "You must be the youngest man in the 
 party." I told him that I thought I was and 
 that I was greatly enjoying the trip. He then 
 wanted to know who I was and what I did. 
 I told him that I was pastor of the Pilgrim 
 Congregational Church, New York City, and 
 that I had recently come down from Lenox, 
 Mass. He at once said, "Aren't you a rather 
 young man to be pastor of a church in New 
 York?" I told him that I thought I was, but 
 that the congregation had not thought so, so 
 I could not help it. He wanted to know If 
 I was especially interested in the problem of 
 Negro education. I told him that I was in- 
 terested in it as I was in several problems of 
 human betterment, but that my special in- 
 terest, outside of my distinctive parish work, 
 was international peace. I watched his face 
 as I said this and saw a real interest suddenly 
 come into it. ]H[e was p l^^yg "" th^ Innl-pi^j ^.fi'Cu^ -hXc 
 for young men to whom he could pass on his^ 'X^-^-y 
 work and interests.. This was one of the 
 secrets of his great business success. He 
 watched with great keenness the young men 
 
12 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 in his employ, and as he found the right man 
 he turned over responsiBilities to him. He 
 thus discovered thirty or forty of the men 
 who afterwards became heads of his great 
 industries and succeeded to them. In the 
 same way he was always watching for young 
 men who had come under the spell of the 
 vision of a new world order based on those 
 same principles which prevail among gen- 
 tlemen. He believed that nations could live 
 together as gentlemen as easily as individuals. 
 He believed that nations could outgrow duel- 
 ling as had individuals. He did not believe 
 t hat the question of justic e rmilH he. spI-i-IpH^ 
 by fists or guns. He believed the time had 
 comeTwhen, ifthis was called to the attention 
 of most men, and arbitration treaties, inter- 
 national courts, leagues of peace-loving na- 
 tions offered in the place of war as a method 
 of settling international disputes, they would 
 rise to them. This was his chief Interest. 
 He was possessed by it; when he found any- 
 one equally enthusiastic, especially a young 
 man, he at once became interested In him. 
 
 Immediately he asked me how I came to 
 be interested In that subject. I told him I 
 did not know. I thought that it was perhaps 
 
How I Met Mr. Carnegie . 13 
 
 a sudden sense of the silliness, the ridiculous- 
 ness, the futility as well as the cruelty of the 
 whole war business. I believed in evolution. 
 I thought we had as a race risen up out of 
 the brute world on to a higher plane, but that 
 just as we had brought one or two unneces- 
 sary, outgrown physical appendages with us 
 — -the appendix, for instance — so we had 
 brought other brute characteristics — ^war. 
 This had suddenly come over me — I knew not 
 when or how. 
 
 I then ventured to ask him how he became 
 so interested in the cause of international 
 good will. He said that he supposed it was 
 by somewhat the same process as that which 
 I had just mentioned, but that he thought 
 that his first trip through Europe, where he 
 came up against the eternal sight of arma- 
 ment and soldiers, did more to goad him to 
 take up the war against war than anything 
 else. (Dr. Charles E. Jefferson once told 
 me that it was this sight of Europe armed to 
 the teeth — its flat contradiction of Christian* 
 ity — that stirred him to that fight against 
 wars as a means of settlement of international 
 disputes he has so valiantly waged.) 
 
 Mr. Carnegie also said: "I came Home 
 
14 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 brooding over the fact that the world was 
 carrying a great, oppressive, unnecessary bur- 
 den on its back; one, too, that the people 
 would gladly be rid of. I began from that 
 day to do my best to help them slough it off." 
 I was telling him about the Lake Mohonk 
 conferences on international arbitration, two 
 or three of which I had already attended, 
 when someone else came and sat down with 
 us, and entered into the conversation. We 
 began talking about the education of the 
 Negro, and here there was a little difference 
 of opinion. Mr. Carnegie was so convinced 
 of the splendid results for the Negro from 
 the technical training which Hampton Insti- 
 tute and Tuskegee Institute were providing, 
 that it was a little difficult to get him inter- 
 ested in the higher education such as Atlanta 
 University and Fisk University were furn- 
 ishing. I think he had a little of that feeling 
 that Mr. Washington himself occasionally 
 seemed to have, that the Negro would be 
 wise not to worry over social standing, but 
 bend all his efforts towards success in agricul- 
 ture, trades and business, and especially try 
 to make himself indispensable to the com- 
 munity. (In justice to Mr. Washington it 
 
How I Met Mr. Carnegie 15 
 
 should be remembered that he realized the 
 need of teachers and leaders for his race, 
 and was always friendly toward higher in- 
 stitutions of learning. But I knew him very 
 well and I could never detect very much 
 sympathy in him for that group of fine men 
 represented by Professor Dubois and Profes- 
 sor Kelly, who were standing inflexibly for 
 the Negro's full rights as a man.) I do not 
 think Mr. Carnegie quite appreciated the 
 sensitiveness of some Negroes of culture and 
 fine instincts, or how they suffered under cer- 
 tain rebuffs which came. I told him of a 
 young Negro, a college graduate, who was 
 very fond of music, who had bought his 
 ticket for the Metropolitan Opera, and was 
 removed from his seat just as the perform- 
 ance began, because a Southern gentleman did 
 not wish to sit beside him. 
 
 "Did they actually do that?" asked Mr. 
 Carnegie, quite warmly. 
 
 "Professor Dubois tells the story in 'The 
 Souls of Black Folk'," I said, and added, "I 
 imagine cultured, educated Negroes are meet- 
 ing such experiences all the time. I have 
 known of several." 
 
 "That is all wrong," said Mr. Carnegie. 
 
16 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 "That is not democracy. One citizen has 
 every right another citizen has in a real dem- 
 ocracy." 
 
 I asked Mr. Carnegie if he would stop 
 the higher education of the Negro or insist 
 that he have the rights to which such educa- 
 tion entitles him. Immediately he answered 
 that he would insist on his being treated as a 
 man, not as a Negro. He himself had always 
 treated men as men, according to their worth, 
 not their color. I asked him if he did not 
 think that, where young Negroes had certain 
 ambitions and ideals reaching beyond that 
 of workingmen, they ought to be allowed 
 to gratify them, and ought there not to 
 be colleges for the exceptional Negro? He 
 was very broadminded in his answer. He 
 said he thought any boy anywhere in the 
 world ought to have the opportunity to be- 
 come his best and truest self. He was not 
 opposed to the higher education of the Negro. 
 He would be glad to see any Negro boy go 
 through any university. But he did think 
 Mr. Washington had found the secret of the 
 solution of the Negro problem, and that he 
 would advise the Negroes to fit themselves to 
 do the best work possible, for in that way lay 
 
How I Met Mr. Carnegie 17 
 
 their ultimate recognition by the white people. 
 But he would be glad to shake hands with 
 any Negro boy who had put himself through 
 college. 
 
 I had other talks with him on the way to 
 Tuskegee and saw him often after our arrival. 
 He and Mr. Taft aroused great interest 
 among the students, they being the two men 
 in the party of whom everybody had heard. 
 Mr. Carnegie was very happy there. He saw 
 the library which he had given, every brick 
 of which had been made by the students and 
 laid in place by them. He visited all the shops 
 and saw the boys learning trades by making 
 things to be used on the grounds and by build- 
 ing shops and houses, and saw the girls learn- 
 ing dressmaking by making their own clothes. 
 He visited the dairies and gardens where girls 
 and boys were fitting themselves for farm 
 work, and one day took a drive over the im- 
 mense farm. He was greatly impressed and 
 said one day that Mr. Washington was one 
 of the geniuses of the century. (On another 
 occasion he remarked that Mr. Washington 
 was one of the greatest men the South had 
 produced. This quite angered some of our 
 Southern friends, and when I afterwards 
 
18 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 quoted the remark in an article in a magazine 
 I received several rather sharp letters. The 
 only answer I made was that it was true, and 
 was also, I thought, a very universal judg- 
 ment.) We lived in the train while at Tus- 
 kegee, the cars having been pulled Into the 
 grounds. But one day the students gave a 
 barbecue for the guests, and we all had dinner 
 in a grove, seated on benches before long 
 wooden tables. It was evidently very amus- 
 ing to the students to see these distinguished 
 men discussing roast pig and sweet potato 
 pie. The worthies enjoyed it all very much 
 and became boys again. 
 
 Every day there were exercises in the big 
 assembly hall, at which the school sang and 
 the visitors made addresses. Mr. Carnegie 
 was fascinated by the singing. I shall have 
 occasion later on to refer to his love for music. 
 It cast a spell over him, and I have often 
 heard him say, "Music is heaven" — not a 
 bad definition if one stops to think what music 
 means. The singing was very wonderful and 
 Mr. Washington, knowing how fond Mr. 
 Carnegie was of music, had the students sing 
 the old Negro melodies by the hour. I have 
 never heard a more wonderful or sweeter 
 
How I Met Mr. Carnegie 19 
 
 volume of tone than rose from those thousand 
 Negro throats. They all sang with spontan- 
 eity and swaying rhythm, but most glorious 
 of all was the deep undertone of bass, roll- 
 ing out in perfect harmonies. One morning 
 I was hurrying to the chapel — a little late — 
 for the morning exercises. As I came round 
 a corner, there, under the chapel windows, 
 almost hidden by some big bushes, stood Mr. 
 Carnegie with eyes shut and folded hands, in 
 a kind of trance, as the swelling tone rolled 
 out through the open windows. I, too, 
 stopped and listened, and watched him. 
 
 The music stopped and he came out of his 
 trance. He turned to where I stood. His 
 eyes were shining. He had been off in great 
 spaces. It took him a moment to get back. 
 He took my arm and said only this, "I 
 wanted it to go on forever." When, that even- 
 ing, he made his great address, he took oc- 
 casion to refer to the music. He spoke beau- 
 tifully about it. He said it was worth com- 
 ing clear to Tuskegee to hear; it would sing 
 itself through his soul all the rest of his life ; 
 after all, the old prophets and poets who had 
 pictured heaven as a place where one lived to 
 music were not far off in their prophcciesj he 
 
20 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 had great hopes of a race that could sing as 
 theirs could; in their songs they had made a 
 distinct contribution to the riches of the 
 world; the poet had said of a great city being 
 built that its walls had risen to music; they 
 should build their own lives to the music of 
 their songs. It was one of those inspired 
 moments which frequently came to this great 
 man. I shall have occasion to refer to sev- 
 eral others where, for a moments, this man of 
 business and ardent reformer, suddenly be- 
 came poet and seer. 
 
 Mr. Carnegie's address was one of the 
 events of the week. It was a discussion of 
 the whole problem of education, especially as 
 it applied to races that had been held back 
 in the progress of the world. It was unique 
 and full of originality and personality, as his 
 addresses always were, and was read from 
 manuscript. But the audience had something 
 in store for them beyond the address, and got 
 two or three of the most delicious thrills any 
 audience ever experienced. Mr. Carnegie had 
 been preceded by a certain bishop of the 
 Southern Methodist Church. The bishop was 
 a very eloquent man, eloquent in the Southern 
 style, piling up great periods and soaring as 
 
How I Met Mr. Carnegie 21 
 
 the eagle soars. He suddenly launched out 
 into a summary of the things which made 
 America the greatest nation in the world. One 
 thing after another contributed to this great- 
 ness, until suddenly he added : "We build the 
 greatest battleships in the world and man 
 them with the finest men," or something to 
 that effect. (I have not the address before 
 me.) Knowing Mr. Carnegie's feeling about 
 battleships at just that time, I glanced to 
 where he sat. No more sphinx-like face was 
 ever witnessed. But I knew we had not heard 
 the end of those battleships. When he arose 
 to follow the bishop, he stood for a moment 
 staring at the audience. He put on his glasses 
 to read — and then slowly pushed them up on 
 his forehead and turning to the bishop, said, 
 with voice trembling with scorn, "Have I 
 lived to hear a Christian minister, and a 
 bishop at that, boasting of battleships 1" I 
 cannot recall the rest of his words, but for 
 three minutes he pleaded with the young men 
 and women to throw in all their powers and 
 influence to creating a world where there 
 should be no battleships, but courts of arbi- 
 tration and nations living together as Chris- 
 tion gentlemen. The bishop looked very un- 
 
22 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 comfortable, and no doubt wished he was 
 back in his own district. Mr. Carnegie could 
 not drop the subject. Two or three times in 
 the course of his address the bishop's battle- 
 ship suddenly rushed into his mind, and he 
 had to stop, right in the middle of a sentence 
 bearing no relation to the battleship, to re- 
 lieve his mind, while the audience chuckled 
 to itself. The next day Mr. Carnegie whis- 
 pered to me, with a sly look in his eye, 
 "Didn't I lay the bishop out in good style?" 
 
 There was one very outstanding incident in 
 the course of the address. He was reading 
 from his manuscript an account of the great 
 progress made in the uplift of the Negro as 
 he had seen it during his lifetime. It had been 
 wonderful. 
 
 Then he stopped, put the glasses up on his 
 forehead again, and, looking over the vast 
 audience, said: "Can one imagine the joy that 
 would fill the heart of Armstrong and those 
 other noble pioneers in Negro education could 
 they look down upon us as we sit here to- 
 night?" And then with most spontaneous and 
 intimate voice added, "And who knows but 
 they may be looking down upon us?" 
 
 I do not remember a more impressive mo- 
 
How I Met Mr. Carnegie 23 
 
 ment in any great assembly. It was worth a 
 whole volume on immortality. Furthermore, 
 it was a perfect revelation of Mr. Carnegie's 
 own heart. His faith was of his heart. In 
 great moments he always rose to the world of 
 the spirit as I shall have occasion to show. 
 
II 
 
 THE PRESIDENT OF THE NEW 
 YORK PEACE SOCIETY 
 
 MY INTIMATE relations with Mr. 
 Carnegie began when he became 
 President of the New York Peace 
 Society. In 1906 a few of us who had been 
 constant attendants at the Lake Mohonk 
 Conferences on International Arbitration con- 
 ceived the Idea of forming a society In New 
 York for promoting the ideals in which we 
 were all Interested. Also we felt that with 
 the assembling of the Hague Conferences a 
 new era had dawned upon the world and that 
 the peace problem was being brought down 
 out of the world of idealism, where all move- 
 ments are born, and was becoming a prac- 
 tical, political, question. The Hague Con- 
 ferences were to be the assemblies of nations 
 already converted to the Ideal (and I think 
 that with the exception of Germany the large 
 nations were pretty well converted, and that 
 24 
 
The New York Peace Society 25 
 
 had it not been for the recalcitrancy of Ger- 
 many we should have had a World Court and 
 some sort of League of Nations long before 
 19 14 which would have made the war of 
 1 9 14 impossible), which should devote them- 
 selves to the creation of the international ma- 
 chinery necessary to put the ideals into oper- 
 ation and make them effective and permanent. 
 It seemed to us that there should be in New 
 York an organization whose task should be 
 both to educate the people in what the Hague 
 Conferences were doing and to stand behind 
 the most advanced measures introduced into 
 those conferences, perhaps sustain our Amer- 
 ican delegates in motions they might present 
 — which, afterwards, we often did. 
 
 In June, 1906, this little group, summoned 
 by a letter signed by Dr. Ernst Richard of 
 Columbia University, met in the chapel of 
 the Broadway Tabernacle Church. As I 
 recall the group, among those present that 
 afternoon were Hon. Oscar S. Straus, Pro- 
 fessor Samuel T. Button, Dr. Ernst Richard, 
 Dr. Charles E. Jefferson, Professor John B. 
 Clark, and Dr. Hamilton Holt. There were 
 a few others, but I cannot recall them. We 
 organized under the name of the New York 
 
26 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 Peace Society and Mr. Straus was made presi- 
 dent and Professor Dutton secretary. I be- 
 came a member of the executive committee, 
 which office I have held to this day, and, dur- 
 ing the first two or three years of the Society, 
 when the work of the secretary began to be 
 too great for one man who could give only 
 his spare moments to it, I helped Dr. Dutton. 
 The Society prospered from the beginning. 
 Everybody was interested in the movement 
 and we soon had several hundred members. 
 The Executive Committee used to meet with 
 Mr. Straus at his hospitable home and every- 
 thing was going well when suddenly Mr. 
 Straus was summoned by President Roosevelt 
 to come to Washington and take the Secre- 
 taryship of Commerce and Labor in his Cab- 
 inet. We were quite bewildered and won- 
 dered where we should turn for a president. 
 Mr. Carnegie came to the mind of everybody. 
 He was the logical man. He had put himself 
 upon record by his great rectorial address at 
 St. Andrew's and by many other utterances. 
 We wrote him offering him the office. After a 
 week's space he wrote that he had given the 
 whole matter his earnest consideration; that 
 all his heart was in this cause; that he could 
 
The New York Peace Society 27 
 
 hardly bring himself to refuse so eager was 
 he to do it; but that the pressure of work and 
 responsibilities already too great compelled 
 him to decline the office. 
 
 When this letter was read to the Execu- 
 tive Committee there was great disappoint- 
 ment. The chairman placed it on the table 
 and said: "Where shall we turn now?" 
 
 Then I broke in and said: "Gentlemen, I 
 do not think we ought to let this matter drop 
 here. Mr. Carnegie is the logical president 
 of the New York Peace Society. He Is our 
 'man of destiny'. He is one of the two or 
 three men known all over the world as proph- 
 ets of the new international order. With him 
 our Society is lifted up out of a little, local 
 sphere and becomes a world movement. Fur- 
 thermore, that letter sounds reluctant. I do 
 not think we ought to leave this with a letter. 
 I move that a committee of three or four be 
 appointed to call upon Mr. Carnegie and per- 
 sonally tell him that he must be our presi- 
 dent." 
 
 The idea captivated the group and a com- 
 mitttee was immediately constituted of Dr. 
 Lyman Abbott, Dr. Charles E. Jefferson and 
 myself. When, a few days later, we called 
 
28 Eecollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 upon Mr. Carnegie one of the most amusing 
 scenes I have ever witnessed happened. Be- 
 fore one of us could say a word — and we were 
 all prepared with long and unanswerable ar- 
 guments, determined not to leave the house 
 until he had promised — he burst out : 
 
 "I have had the most miserable three 
 nights I have known for years. I really have 
 not slept since I wrote that letter. Every 
 night when I would lie down to sleep I would 
 hear this voice within me saying, 'Andrew, 
 Andrew, aren't you ashamed of yourself? 
 Here for years you have been advocating ar- 
 bitration in place of war, world courts, 
 leagues of peace, and parliaments of nations, 
 and then when the chance comes really to 
 render the cause some practical help, and to 
 lead a group existing to put your ideals into 
 practice, you refuse. Shame on you !' " 
 
 The way in which he said it, as well as the 
 whole picture of this battle of conscience, 
 was so irresistible that we all roared with 
 laughter, he joining in. Tea was brought in 
 and we all spent a delightful hour together 
 planning for the work of his society — for he 
 really considered it his from that moment. 
 He led it faithfully and enthusiastically until 
 
The New York Peace Society 29 
 
 the United States entered the war, and its 
 activities were stilled for a while. Many of 
 his most notable utterances on international 
 affairs were made at its annual meetings and 
 other gatherings. He made an Ideal presi- 
 dent also in this regard — he had the confi- 
 dence of both parties in the society. The So- 
 ciety has always drawn to itself two groups 
 of people, one, taking the view that all war is 
 wrong, believing practically in non-resistance ; 
 the other working for the substitution of 
 courts and arbitration treaties for war In the 
 settlement of international disputes, but not 
 non-resistant, and not objecting to war in a 
 case of self-defense. As to the proposition for 
 disarmament, they felt it was useless to discuss 
 it before some other guaranty of safety for 
 the nation had been set up. Mr. Carnegie 
 satisfied both of these groups. He was not 
 a non-resistant, and used often to say that he 
 "believed In peace so much that he would fight 
 for it." He would fight for the enforcement 
 of an arbitration or to oppose the aggrand- 
 izement of a criminal nation. Yet he had such 
 a horror of war, calling it again and again 
 "the foulest stain that remains to disgrace 
 humanity since slavery was abolished," and 
 
30 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 was such an advocate of simultaneous dis- 
 armament that he held the radicals, while by 
 his continual emphasis upon a great construc- 
 tive program he held the confidence of the 
 conservative group. Indeed an utterance I 
 heard him make in 1907 I think exactly- 
 summed up the point to which he had ar- 
 rived at this time. 
 
 He said: "Personally I am a convert to 
 the League of Peace idea — the formation of 
 an International Police, never for aggression, 
 always for protection to the peace of the 
 civilized world. It requires only the agree- 
 ment of a sufficient number of nations to es- 
 tablish this. Since the civilized world is now 
 united by electric bonds into one body in 
 constant and instant communication, it is 
 largely interdependent and rapidly becoming 
 more so. War now involves the interests of 
 all, and therefore one nation has no longer a 
 right to break the peace without reference 
 to others." 
 
 I was greatly interested two or three years 
 after this when at Washington, at the dedi- 
 cation of the Pan American Palace given by 
 Mr. Carnegie, President Taft said that the 
 time had come when no two nations on this 
 
The New York Peace Society 31 
 
 hemisphere had a right to go to war to settle 
 their own disputes and thus plunge the other 
 twenty states into trouble and confusion. In 
 the course of the evening, at the reception in 
 the beautiful hall of the Palace, I asked Mr. 
 Carnegie if he had noticed that sentence. 
 
 His face lit up and he said: "Yes, did you? 
 It's just what I have been saying about the 
 world. The world is becoming almost as 
 much one as is this continent. No nation can 
 go to war now against another nation with- 
 out going to war against all humanity." 
 
 "Against all humanity." How often I 
 have thought of that prophetic word since 
 19 14. One nation went to war; against Ser- 
 bia? No, it was against all humanity. I 
 recall another word Mr. Carnegie once said 
 to me: "The world has become a family. 
 No two nations can fight each other in it 
 without involving all the other nations any 
 more than two brothers could begin a pistol 
 fight in the parlor or dining room without 
 involving the rest of the family." The fun- 
 damental idea in his mind when he drew up 
 his plan of a League of Peace was that, just 
 as the police would interfere in the fight be- 
 tween the two brothers to save the rest of 
 
32 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 the family, so the international police would 
 interfere in the fight of the two nations to 
 save the rest of the family of nations. 
 
 I saw a great deal of Mr. Carnegie after 
 he became president of the New York Peace 
 Society as it was necessary to consult him on 
 many questions. We talked on many sub- 
 jects and these will be touched upon later. 
 But I want to devote the next chapter to the 
 great National Peace Congress held in New 
 York in 1907, of which he was president. 
 (It was originated and organized by the 
 New York Peace Society.) Some of the in- 
 cidents that occurred during those meetings 
 revealed not only his greatness, but also 
 the geniality of his personality and gave 
 great play to that sense of humor which was 
 always finding expression. 
 
Ill 
 
 THE PRESIDING GENIUS 
 
 IN 1907 the Executive Committee of the 
 New York Peace Society held a confer- 
 ence with Dr. Benjamin F. Trueblood, 
 president of the American Peace Society, and 
 Mr. Edwin D. Mead of The World Peace 
 Foundation, and the outcome of it was the 
 determination to hold a First National Peace 
 Conference in America. We took the mat- 
 ter up with Mr. Carnegie and he became en- 
 thusiastic about it and readily consented to 
 act as President of the Congress and preside 
 at all its meetings. He suggested that it be 
 held in April, as The Carnegie Institute in 
 P,ittsburgh was to be dedicated on April 
 eleventh, and he had invited several disting- 
 uished men from various European countries 
 to be his guests at that time. 
 
 "We can use them at the Congress," he 
 said, "and that will give it an international 
 character." 
 
 I ventured to suggest to him that perhaps 
 33 
 
34 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 some of them had never thought much on this 
 particular matter of international peace. 
 
 "Never mind," he answered, "we will make 
 them speak, and then they will have to think 
 about it." 
 
 And then he added, with a twinkle in his 
 eye, "We'll make them put themselves on 
 record." 
 
 He did make some of them put themselves 
 on record on this subject for the first time, 
 with very good results. Some of them. Baron 
 d'Estournelles de Constant, William T. Stead 
 and William Archer, had long been inter- 
 ested In the subject; but I imagine that Sir 
 Robert Ball, Sir WlUIam Henry Freece, Sir 
 Edward Elgar, Earl Grey, Maarten Maart- 
 ens. Sir Robert Cranston and some others of 
 the distinguished speakers from abroad had 
 never thought so much about the subject in 
 all their lives as they did in the week they put 
 upon the preparation of their speeches. 
 
 The Congress lasting three or four days 
 was a great success. It was attended by 
 thousands from all over the nation and some 
 of the most eminent men enthusiastically took 
 part in it. Among the speakers were Dr. 
 Hirsch, Bishop Potter, Senator Root, Gov- 
 
The Presiding Genius 35 
 
 ernor Hughes, Oscar S. Straus, Mr. Bryan, 
 Jane Addams, Marcus M. Marks, Nahum J. 
 Bachelder, John Barrett, Edward Everett 
 Hale, Nicholas Murray Butler, John H. Fin- 
 ley, Edwin D. Mead, Felix Adler, Samuel 
 Gompers, Terence V. Powderly, Congress- 
 man Bartholdt, Thomas Nelson Page, John 
 W. Foster, Judge Gray, President Eliot, 
 Archbishop Ireland, Seth Low, Lyman Ab- 
 bott, and Lord Bryce, besides the foreign 
 guests mentioned above. Carnegie Hall was 
 crowded session after session; there were 
 overflow meetings, and the Congress closed 
 with two great simultaneous banquets, one 
 at the Hotel Astor, the other at the Waldorf- 
 Astoria. Professor Samuel T. Button was 
 Chairman of the Committee and Professor 
 Robert Erskine Ely, Secretary. 
 
 Mr. Carnegie was the happiest of men 
 throughout the whole period and was the 
 presiding genius. Nowhere have his amazing 
 versatility and his rare sense of humor been 
 more fully revealed than in his introductions 
 of the various speakers and in his impromptu 
 remarks at the various sessions. And yet he 
 kept the whole Congress up on a very high 
 level. It addressed itself seriously to the 
 
36 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 great questions the Hague Conferences were 
 discussing and foreshadowed many of those 
 forms of international organization the world 
 is now trying to adopt after the war. There 
 is hardly a thing in the constitution of the 
 League of Nations which Mr. Carnegie and 
 his associates did not foreshadow at this Con- 
 gress. Indeed they called for more than the 
 present Covenant contains, except as it con- 
 tains it in embryo. In his opening address 
 Mr. Carnegie set the note for all the sessions. 
 After outlining his plan for a League of 
 Peace in a passage I have quoted in a previous 
 chapter, he said: "We urge this plan as the 
 easiest and speediest means of attaining In- 
 ternational peace. Suppose these nations (he 
 had mentioned a group of the great powers) 
 or others, propose at the Hague Conference 
 that they and such other nations as concur 
 agree to say to the world that no nation shall 
 be permitted to disturb the peace, the nations 
 thus combined would constitute an over- 
 whelming force; peace would be unbroken, 
 for resistance would be folly. Nevertheless, 
 the overwhelming force must be In reserve, 
 each nation agreeing when necessary to exert 
 force to keep peace, and to contribute its 
 
The Presiding Genius 37 
 
 agreed-upon quota, just as the six Powers 
 did in China. Before resorting to force, it 
 would be well to begin by proclaiming non- 
 intercourse with the offending nation. No 
 exchange of products, no loans, no military or 
 naval supplies, no mails — these restrictions 
 would serve as a solemn warning and prob- 
 ably prove effective. Force should always be 
 the last resort." 
 
 But I do not intend to make this book a 
 history of the First National Peace Congress. 
 I want rather to recall three or four occa- 
 sions where the humaneness as well as the 
 greatness of Mr. Carnegie was revealed. 
 Who that was present on the night when 
 Professor Hugo Miinsterberg delivered his 
 panegyric on Germany as the great peace- 
 loving nation — how strange the speech sounds 
 to-day as I re-read it — will ever forget Mr. 
 Carnegie's turning his back to the audience 
 and with almost trembling body telling the 
 great psychologist just what he thought of 
 one statement in his speech. 
 
 Dr. Munsterberg had said: "I know, of 
 course, that every word of this kind must be 
 unpopular; yet I say it frankly at once: The 
 German army is not felt by the nation as a 
 
38 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 disagreeable burden . . . The years in the 
 army are a time of pride for the overwhelm- 
 ing mass of the German people." 
 
 This was more than Mr. Carnegie could 
 stand. He exclaimed: "I have heard Pro- 
 fessor Miinsterberg make the most extraor- 
 dinary statement that I have heard for a 
 long time : that conscription in Germany was 
 not regarded as a great burden. I should 
 like to have the gentleman visit our mills in 
 Pittsburg and ask thousands and thousands 
 of Germans what influenced them to leave 
 Germany for this land." Then turning to 
 Professor Miinsterberg, he said: "I had in 
 the beginning a German partner — I have had 
 many German partners and several of them 
 are millionaires to-day — and I have asked 
 them and also the men in the mills : 'What 
 made you leave Germany?' and they have an- 
 swered: 'Mr. Carnegie, I have two boys; I 
 would not have them in the barracks.' " 
 
 After the meeting was over I said to Mr. 
 Carnegie, as he was putting on his coat in 
 the speakers' room: "I don't think our friend 
 from Harvard has any doubt as to how you 
 feel about the Prussian system." 
 
 He looked at me a moment and then said: 
 
The Presiding Genius 39 
 
 "I came pretty near to jumping right up out 
 of my chair while he was talking that stuff 
 about the Germans not feeling conscription as 
 a burden. The United States has swarms of 
 them and half of them came to get out from 
 under that whole business." I never saw him 
 quite so excited. And he was right. 
 
 Mr. Carnegie was very fond of Mr. Stead 
 and quite appreciated his genius — for he was 
 a man of genius. He was more like one of 
 the Old Testament prophets than any man I 
 have known' — fearless, passionate, fanatical 
 sometimes. He once said to me, "It Is only 
 we crazy men who move the world". Mr. 
 Carnegie had brought him over for the Pitts- 
 burgh dedication, but the Peace Congress gave 
 him his great chance. He was an ardent 
 worker against war and militarism and at just 
 this time his mind was full of a pilgrimage 
 he wanted to organize, where a few should 
 start out from London, gathering companions 
 as they went from country to country, and call 
 upon all the kings and rulers of Europe, de- 
 manding, not asking, that they support the 
 proposals for arbitration of all disputes as 
 framed at the Hague Conference. He was 
 irrepressible and never missed an opportunity 
 
40 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 to speak. He was very popular everywhere, 
 too, and the people were always clamoring 
 for him when he appeared. He was down to 
 speak at one of the evening sessions, but many 
 other speakers had preceded him before his 
 turn came. Mr. Carnegie introduced him as 
 "one of the most ardent spirits I know among 
 all my friends," but, because It was so late, 
 asked him if he would take ten minutes, say- 
 ing that he would have further opportunities 
 of addressing the Congress. At the end of 
 his ten minutes he stopped, saying, "My time 
 Is up," but the great audience unanimously 
 shouted, "Go on, go on". Mr. Carnegie had 
 to still the tumult, but the audience wanted 
 Stead. Finally he got the people quiet and 
 said: "That man Stead could keep you here 
 an hour!" 
 
 "All right, we'll stay," someone shouted, 
 and the audience began clapping again. But 
 Mr. Carnegie was firm, and putting his palm 
 up beside his mouth as though to take the 
 audience into his confidence, he said in a loud 
 whisper, "He is wonderful, and he has been 
 speaking ever since he landed in this country; 
 and some of us, careful of his health, are 
 taking care to limit him." This was too much, 
 
The Presiding Genius 41 
 
 ■ — ^the idea of limiting Stead, and the audience 
 roared. 
 
 Then Mr. Carnegie said: "Besides, we 
 have other speakers. I would like very much 
 to hear him myself, but I must really ask you 
 to allow the other speakers to speak; it is now 
 after ten o'clock, and all well regulated fam- 
 ilies should have the heads of the families at 
 home before eleven o'clock. We will now 
 hear " 
 
 But the irrepressible Stead leaped to his 
 feet again and said: "Mr. Carnegie, just one 
 word more; I have obeyed and am always 
 ready to obey the ruling of the Chair, but I 
 wish to make a suggestion that when he exer- 
 cises his rulings and insists, quite properly, 
 upon the time-table being adhered to, he 
 should not apply it so hard upon me as to put 
 it upon his regard for my health; and I have 
 further to say to you that, as he has done so, 
 I think it only right to make this fair offer to 
 him and this meeting, that after you have got- 
 ten through with the other speakers to-night, 
 if you would like to stop and hear me, I am 
 game to speak as long as you will listen." 
 Again there was applause. (Two nights af- 
 terwards Mr. Stead addressed a great aud- 
 
42 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 ience of workingmen in Cooper Union and the 
 janitor had to put out the lights to get the 
 audience to go home.) 
 
 I am tempted to digress here for a moment 
 and give one characteristic incident of Mr. 
 Stead's visit. On the second day of the Con- 
 gress one of the clubs on Fifth Avenue invited 
 the speakers at the Congress to be the guests 
 at a luncheon. Promptly at one o'clock Mr. 
 Stead put in an appearance with Mrs. Stead. 
 
 The doorkeeper greeted him with the re- 
 mark: "I am sorry, sir, but women are not 
 allowed in the Club." 
 
 "Why not?" demanded the indignant 
 Stead. 
 
 "I don't know, sir," replied the somewhat 
 non-plus:£d lackey, "but it's the rule, sir." 
 
 "Who made it?" said Mr. Stead. 
 
 "I don't know, sir, but it's the rule." 
 
 "Then I don't go in," said Mr. Stead. "I 
 don't go where my wife can't go." 
 
 "Very well, sir," said the lackey, and Mr. 
 Stead took Mrs. Stead by the arm and led her 
 back to their hotel for luncheon. 
 
 I related this incident to Mr. Carnegie 
 that evening, and he said: "I'm sorry it hap- 
 pened; but all the world put together couldn't 
 
The Presiding Genius 43 
 
 move Stead from his course if he thought he 
 was in the right." 
 
 I remember so well when, several years 
 afterward, the Titanic was sunk, and Stead 
 went down on her, refusing to leave the ship 
 while anyone else was on her, I showed Mr. 
 Carnegie a paragraph from The British 
 Weekly to the effect that it had not yet been 
 reported whether Stead had been saved or 
 not, but that it was probable he had been lost, 
 b ecause Mr. Stead would not lea s ui- thc - shi4 i^^ 
 while there was a single soul on her needing 
 Jfelp, he said, the tears commg to his eyesT 
 "Ah, there's a tribute any man in the world 
 might envy. And it's true, absolutely true. 
 He was one of the knightliest souls the world 
 ever knew." 
 
 (The reports afterward bore out the truth 
 of the statement in The British Weekly. 
 Stead refused to save himself, and perished/ 
 saving others. " He saved others: himself hj f Vj 
 could not save.") 
 
 ^erhapT the "most dramatic scene In the 
 whole Congress was the bestowal of the Cross 
 of the Legion of Honor upon Mr. Carnegie 
 by the French Government. So many guests 
 desired to attend the closing banquet of the 
 
44 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 Congress that it had to be held in two hotels 
 simultaneously — a thousand guests in each. 
 The Hon. Seth Low presided at the Waldorf- 
 Astoria and Mr. Carnegie at the Astor. The 
 speakers addressed both banquets, going from 
 one to the other. Toward the close of the 
 banquet at the Astor, Baron d'Estournelles 
 was ushered in, having just spoken at the 
 Waldorf-Astoria. Edward Everett Hale was 
 just finishing his speech and the Baron heard 
 the last paragraph. Mr. Carnegie presented 
 him to the audience. 
 
 He hesitated a moment and then before 
 beginning his address he turned toward Dr. 
 Hale and uttered these memorable words: 
 "I tell you that I shall go back to my country 
 full of faith, full of certainty for the future. 
 After arriving in this room I witnessed the 
 sight of a most respected and great old man 
 speaking like a young man. Knowing him as 
 * we all do, but also from what my friend Mr. 
 Carnegie has said, I think you will allow me 
 to say as a foreigner who came here yester- 
 day and will be gone to-morrow, that it is a 
 fine sight to see in your country an old man 
 speaking like a young man, speaking of the 
 future. I thought yesterday I had seen all 
 
The Presiding Genius 45 
 
 that I could enjoy when I had seen your 
 American children full of confidence of 
 Peace,* but I see now something better still; 
 I see there is no difference here between gen- 
 erations; I see that the old people are not 
 against the young people; I see that you all 
 agree in aiming at this admirable ideal, the 
 substitution of arbitration and justice for the 
 horrors of war. When I return to Europe 
 I shall find skeptics laughing as they always 
 do when one speaks of a new idea, but I 
 shall not mind! I will tell them: 'You may 
 laugh, you old people, but you do not live 
 in America. They act their belief and you 
 will be obliged to follow them.' " 
 
 There was great applause, and Dr. Hale, 
 deeply moved, arose and bowed to d'Estour- 
 nelles. 
 
 The Baron then went on with his address 
 and, as he neared the close turned and faced 
 Mr. Carnegie. Mr. Carnegie had no idea of 
 what was coming — neither had anyone else 
 — ^but it proved one of the greatest moments 
 of his life. It also elicited from him one of 
 
 * Baron d'Estournelles had on the previous day ad- 
 dressed a great audience of school children in Carnegie 
 Hall. 
 
46 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 his noblest utterances, an utterance which was 
 a spontaneous revelation of his heart. Some- 
 times I think it is the most self-revealing 
 word he ever uttered in public. 
 
 Looking straight at Mr. Carnegie, the 
 Baron said: "And now the Court of The 
 Hague exists, and we can be pretty sure that 
 in a few years we will see the Hague Court 
 established as your great Supreme Court of 
 the United States is, and that Court, which 
 has been for three or four years quite empty, 
 will be so full of cases that it will almost re- 
 quire two courts instead of one. This is due 
 to your initiative, and this has been the ex- 
 ample given to the governments of the world. 
 The governments are not ungrateful. They 
 understand now what has been done, and in 
 France especially they appreciate it. They 
 have not forgotten the principles of the 
 French Revolution. Our great Revolution 
 considered that it is not enough for a man to 
 be a good citizen of his own country, he must 
 try to be a good citizen of all the world. And 
 because we found in France that the act of 
 Mr. Andrew Carnegie was a faithful appli- 
 cation of our most beloved and respected prin- 
 ciple, the government of France, the Repub- 
 
The Presiding Genius 47 
 
 lie, wanted to send a public testimonial of its 
 esteem and gratitude to the man who has 
 furnished such a good example and built the 
 Palace of Peace. 
 
 "Mr. Carnegie, let me say, my dear friend, 
 that I am very happy to be the bearer of the 
 good news. You are now to be in the rank 
 of a Commander of the Legion of Honor. 
 Let me, my dear friend, attach to you this 
 ribbon (the Baron here placed the order 
 about the neck of Mr. Carnegie) , let me con- 
 sider now that you are an American, as well 
 as an Englishman, an Englishman as well as 
 a Frenchman, a citizen of the world. You 
 have done a great work and we thank you." 
 (At this point there was great applause, the 
 audience rising en masse.) 
 
 Mr. Carnegie replied as follows : 
 "My friends; Baron d'Estournelles de Con- 
 stant: This honor is as surprising as it is 
 overwhelming. None knows better than I 
 that it is not deserved. No, it is not deserved 
 for anything that I have done, but if a heart 
 that keeps on enlarging as I grow older, em- 
 bracing more and more of the world and the 
 people of the world, if that merits the cross of 
 the Legion of Honor, I believe that I do de- 
 
48 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 serve it. For I do find with every successive 
 year of my life that I take higher and higher 
 views, that I think more and more of human- 
 ity, that I have brighter and brighter visions 
 of its future. 
 
 "That this honor comes from France makes 
 it doubly acceptable. I remember what 
 France was to this Republic when she needed 
 a friend. I remember what the French people 
 are capable of sacrificing for an ideal. I 
 know what France has done for the world of 
 art. And I know what the Legion of Honor 
 means. It embraces the men of distinction 
 in every field of human endeavor. The great 
 man of France to-day has been selected by a 
 vote of several millions of her people re- 
 cently. The soldier? No. Napoleon himself 
 was seventh on the list. Pasteur, the hero 
 of civilization, as Napoleon is the hero of 
 barbarism, was first, followed by two scien- 
 tists and then by two authors ; and Napoleon 
 who was like some huge Colossus, is seventh 
 already in the estimation of that intelligent 
 people, the French, and with every successive 
 vote destined to fall lower and lower in the 
 list until his name be remembered no more 
 except as a monster who killed his fellowman 
 
The Presiding Genius 49 
 
 for his own glory. I love France for her 
 idealism ; I love her because she was a friend 
 of my native land, for Scotland and France 
 were ever good friends. None knows so well 
 as I that I do not deserve this honor, but it 
 is so great an honor it doesn't exalt; it 
 humbles, when I compare it with the small 
 service that I have rendered. But it does 
 this also; it furnishes another bond binding 
 me still more strictly so to live my life that 
 France, who bestowed it upon me, shall never 
 have cause to regret that she was generous 
 enough to embrace me in that circle of men 
 who have won her august approval." 
 
IV 
 
 MR. CARNEGIE AND THE FOREIGN 
 STUDENTS 
 
 MR. CARNEGIE had a heart which 
 embraced all peoples and all classes 
 and conditions. He was at home in 
 any country and with the citizens of every 
 nation. While a true patriot, loving his 
 adopted country, yet he belonged to humanity. 
 He was always happy when he could gather 
 about him a group of men from every land, 
 or a group of men from every class, that they 
 might all feel their kinship. He used to say 
 continually that one of the great factors in 
 international reconciliation was acquaintance. 
 I shall have occasion to show in a future 
 chapter how, when he gave one of his en- 
 dowments he expressed the hope that the first 
 things done with the income might be to bring 
 together certain groups from the various 
 nations that they might learn to know each 
 other. 
 
 50 
 
The Foreign Students 51 
 
 He once said to me: "There are occasions 
 where familiarity breeds contempt, I suppose, 
 but I find that generally it breeds respect. 
 The more I meet men from other lands, the 
 more I appreciate their fine qualities." 
 
 Another time he said: "The things that 
 divide nations are surface differences: color, 
 language, habits, customs, shape of head, 
 manners. When one gets to 'know these 
 people he finds there is oneness in all the big 
 things, the things that count — we suffer from 
 the same causes, we are one in the things of 
 the heart. We are made happy by the same 
 things, miserable by the same things. There 
 is no difference in mother-love between a 
 Chinese woman and an American woman. 
 What we want to do is to get together and 
 discover how we are one in the real things, 
 and emphasize this sameness rather than the 
 surface differences." 
 
 He told me a very funny story in connec- 
 tion with this, a story that has a world of 
 meaning in It, a universal truth, and one that 
 I have used a hundred times in speaking on 
 this subject of the oneness of humanity. I do 
 not know where Mr. Carnegie first heard it. 
 He said: "The circus visited the village and 
 
52 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 /there was an Irishman, Pat, who was very 
 j anxious to go. But he did not have the neces- 
 I sary fifty cents. Early in the morning he 
 I turned up at the grounds and offered to do 
 any kind of work — help pitch the tent, feed 
 the animals, anything if they would only let 
 him in. The manager said, 'I'm sorry, Pat, 
 but we've got all the help we need. But I'll 
 tell you : the lion died last night, and what's 
 a circus without a lion ? We've kept his pelt, 
 and if you'll get into it and simply crawl into 
 the cage and lie down over in the comer a 
 couple of hours — asleep you know — I'll give 
 you two dollars.' Pat thought it was a very 
 easy way of earning two dollars and accepted. 
 They got him into the pelt and led him out 
 to the cage. The manager opened the door 
 and was pushing Pat in when suddenly Pat 
 saw a great Bengal tiger glowering at him 
 from the further end of the cage. He leaped 
 back with an agility he had not shown for 
 years. The proprietor gave him another 
 shove. 'I'll not go into the cage with yonder 
 beast,' he shouted. Whereupon the great 
 tiger rather drowsily lifted Its head up and 
 said 'Come right in, Pat. I'm an Irishman, 
 too.' " 
 
The Foreign Stud ents 53 
 
 "You see," Mr. Carnegie used to add, 
 "We're all Irishmen when you get down be- 
 neath the different colored pelts." 
 
 It was my good fortune to have a part in 
 three or four memorable functions where this 
 universality of Mr. Carnegie was manifested 
 in the most striking manner. We have in 
 New York City a large group of foreign 
 students. They come from every country of 
 the world ; but the Chinese and Japanese stu- 
 dents outnumber all the others. The Young 
 Men's Christian Association saw a remark- 
 able opportunity not only to help these men 
 In their own personal lives, and not only to 
 bring them into contact with American 
 friends, but also to further mutual acquaint- 
 ance and good-will among the nations they 
 represented. For these boys would all be 
 leaders when they went home — many of them 
 would at once be called to offices in the state. 
 Consequently they brought these students to- 
 gether Into the Cosmopolitan Club, under 
 the able leadership of Harry E. Edmonds, 
 Secretary of the Intercollegiate Branch of the 
 Y. M, C. A. This Club holds a weekly supper 
 at Earl Hall, Columbia University, at which 
 some well known man Is Invited to speak on 
 
54 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 some phase of American life, culture, or hu- 
 manitarian work, also to show the various 
 ways in which religion is being brought to 
 bear on the social structure. One thing we 
 who are on the Advisory Committee of this 
 Club have always wanted to do was to let 
 these foreign students get in touch with Amer- 
 ican homes. We have divided them up into 
 groups and got them invited into many fam- 
 ilies where they could see our home life at its 
 best. One day I suggested to Mr. and Mrs. 
 Carnegie that they invite the whole Club to 
 their home for an evening, that the students 
 might, of course, see the home, but especially 
 that they might meet Mr. and Mrs. Carnegie 
 and a few prominent Americans they might 
 invite. They saw, as they were always quick 
 to do, an opportunity to do a beautiful thing 
 and the boys were invited. So also were a 
 few Americans. I recall Mr. Marks, Mr. 
 Holt, Mr. Maxwell, Professor Kirchwey, 
 Professor Dutton, Mr. Bertram, President 
 Finley, Dr. Liepziger, and Dr. Pritchett 
 among others. 
 
 The boys, with a few girls — for girls are 
 also included in the Club — turned up two 
 hundred strong. Fully two thirds of them 
 
The Foreign Students 55 
 
 were Chinese and Japanese students. Mr. 
 Carnegie was as happy as he could be. I do 
 not think he had quite realized what was 
 coming, for as they poured into the house, 
 group after group, he came over to me and 
 said, with wonder in his face: "Do you mean 
 to say that all these Chinese and Japanese 
 boys are here studying in our universities?" 
 
 "Yes," I said, "and hundreds more. And," 
 I added, "the interesting thing is that these 
 Chinese boys are here on the indemnity money 
 the United States returned to China at the 
 time of the Boxer Rebellion." 
 
 "It is wonderful," he said, "and what a 
 splendid lot of fellows they are. These 
 Chinese boys are a revelation. I have seen 
 several Japanese students but not so many of 
 these Chinese students." 
 
 I told him that many of them came from 
 the very finest families of China and most 
 of them had had university training before 
 coming to America and were picked from 
 among hundreds to take advanced courses in 
 America. 
 
 Mr. Carnegie was evidently very much 
 impressed. When the students had all ar- 
 rived, we went into the drawing rooms and 
 
56 KecoUections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 I presented them, as a body, to Mr. and Mrs. 
 Carnegie and our other American friends and 
 asked Mr. Edmonds to say a word about the 
 work of the Club. Mr. Carnegie told me 
 afterwards that he could not conceive of any 
 finer work being done in New York City. 
 Mr. Edmonds asked Mr. Aghnides, a Turk- 
 ish student, and President of the Club, to say 
 a word for the students. Mr. Aghnides 
 thanked Mr. and Mrs. Carnegie, in a few 
 gracious words, for their kindness in inviting 
 them, causing a little ripple of laughter by 
 saying, "You are better known in Turkey 
 than the President of the United States." 
 
 I wish I had arranged for a stenographic 
 report of Mr. Carnegie's words to the stu- 
 dents. I can recall, in substance, some of the 
 things he said. He made a remarkable im- 
 pression upon them, as some of them after- 
 wards told me. 
 
 He said: "It seems as if all the world had 
 been brought together in my house this even- 
 ing, for there is hardly a country that is not 
 represented here. And this is what should 
 happen more and more. The oftener all the 
 world can be brought together the sooner the 
 peace of the world will come. That is the 
 
The Foreign Students 57 
 
 wonderful .thing about the Second Hague 
 Conference. All the world was there. Every 
 one of the countries from which you have 
 come had its delegate there. I built the Peace 
 Palace at The Hague with this thought in 
 mind that It might be an assembly place for 
 all the world. I hope sometime to see a 
 World Court there and a World Parliament 
 — ^who knows that some of you will not be the 
 first delegates to that Parliament — and, as 
 I told the students at St. Andrews, all the 
 peace-loving, respectable nations must some 
 time band themselves together to establish 
 law and order in the world. ... I feel very 
 much honored by the presence of these boys 
 and girls from the Eastern nations. How 
 much we owe to your wonderful civilizations. 
 One of the men whose words I read over and 
 over is Confucius, one of the two or three 
 great teachers of the world. Again and 
 again I marvel as I read, how he has an- 
 ticipated so many of the teachings of our own 
 Christian religion. It shows how God does 
 not leave Himself without a witness in every 
 land. When I have seen, as I have, great 
 throngs in your lands prostrate in worship I 
 have said that true worship reaches the one 
 
58 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 and the same God, no matter under what 
 name He may be addressed. . . . One hears 
 so much about what your countries have to 
 learn from us: I want also to think of how 
 much we have to learn from you. I am glad 
 to learn that several American students are 
 also in your Club. I hope many of them 
 will join and meet often with you so that they 
 may learn of you as well as you learn of 
 them. ... I hope you will see the real Amer- 
 ica while you are here. You are seeing it in 
 the universities where you are studying. You 
 are seeing It In the homes you are visiting, for 
 iDr. Lynch tells me many homes have been 
 opened to you. That is splendid. Your In- 
 structors should arrange to have you visit our 
 libraries, hospitals, charitable organizations, 
 settlements, and technical schools. There 
 Is the real America. . . . You will be told 
 that the ideal of America is money, that ma- 
 terialism rules here. This is false. Service 
 is the characteristic of the real American, 
 You see these friends of mine here who have 
 been Invited in to meet you. They are all 
 very great men. They could all of them 
 have been millionaires had they chosen to 
 enter business. They could have had salaries 
 
The Foreign Students 59 
 
 of fifty thousand dollars a year had they 
 chosen. They are all of them working 
 on a very moderate salary because they pre- 
 fer service to money. I have hosts of friends 
 in Great Britain and America and most of 
 them belong to this class. This is the America 
 I want you to carry home to your countries. 
 . . . Well, aren't we having a good time to- 
 night? I don't know when I have been so 
 happy. There is not any reason in the world 
 why your countries and mine shouldn't live 
 together just as happily as we are living to- 
 gether in this room. We're all one family 
 to-night. Well, that's what the different 
 countries have got to learn — that they're all 
 one family. I've been telling them that all 
 my life — but I'm getting old and you are 
 young — you must bring it to pass. Come 
 now, and I will show you my treasures. ..." 
 Off Mr. Carnegie started with the whole 
 crowd behind him, and carried them all over 
 the house, showing them pictures of libraries 
 and of his friends, medals and great gold 
 and silver keys given with the freedom of 
 various cities; rare books; rarer autograph 
 letters and pictures of kings and emperors 
 and great writers and statesmen — everything 
 
60 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 that he thought would interest these boys. 
 And he talked all the time. I told him after- 
 wards that he reminded us of a Cook's Tour- 
 ist guide taking a party through The Louvre. 
 Once I caught his voice from the distance — 
 I was not with the group in the library^ — re- 
 peating poetry to them — and he could repeat 
 a lot of it when he chose — and I recognized 
 that poem of his dear friend, Richard Watson 
 Gilder, on the heroes of peace which he had 
 written and sent to Mr. Carnegie and which 
 Mr. Carnegie was always repeating to his 
 friends. Then he marched all the boys down 
 the great hall, past the organ where he 
 stopped for a moment to expatiate on music 
 — and how he understood the ministry of 
 music — into the art gallery to a good supper 
 wherewith to round off the night. Those 
 who saw Mr. Carnegie that night saw him at 
 his best. 
 
 Speaking of Mr. Gilder's poem, Mr. Car- 
 negie had a habit of writing a Christmas or 
 New Years letter to his friends, and having 
 it handsomely printed and sent as his Christ- 
 mas gift to them. Sometimes he would print 
 some poem or quotation that had made a great 
 impression upon him. On Christmas mom- 
 
The Foreign Students 61 
 
 ing, 1909, his friends received a beautifully 
 printed copy of this poem of Mr. Gilder's, 
 "In the Time of Peace", with Mr. Gilder's 
 inscription on it : "For Andrew Carnegie : The 
 great peace fiend — I mean angel. R. W. G." 
 
 Mr. Carnegie had written at the foot of 
 the poem: "Sent me by my dear friend Wat- 
 son Gilder — one of the purest, sweetest white 
 souls who ever breathed — 'He is gone, and 
 oh, the difference to me.' " This was signed 
 in Mr. Carnegie's own hand, as these printed 
 Christmas messages always were. 
 
 This poem of Mr. Gilder's played so im- 
 portant a role in Mr. Carnegie's life that I 
 think it ought to be copied here. For he once 
 said to me : "The whole idea of my Hero 
 Fund is in that poem. I conceived the Fund 
 before Mr. Gilder wrote this poem; but we 
 often talked it over together and he has put 
 it all in those eight wonderful stanzas." The 
 poem is as follows : 
 
 'Twas said: "When roll of drum and battles' roar 
 Shall cease upon the earth, O, then no more 
 
 The deed — the race— of heroes in the land." 
 
 But scarce that word was breathed when one small hand 
 
 Lifted victorious o'er a giant wrong 
 
 That had its victims crushed through ages long; 
 
62 Eecollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 Some woman set her pale and quivering face 
 Firm as a rock against a man's disgrace; 
 
 A little child suflfered in silence lest 
 
 His savage pain should wound a mother's breast; 
 
 Some quiet scholar flung his gauntlet down 
 
 And risked in truth's great name the synod's frown; 
 
 A civic hero, in the calm realm of laws, 
 
 Did that which suddenly drew a world's applause; 
 
 And one to the pest his lithe young body gave 
 That he a thousand lives might save. 
 
THE MAN OF UNIVERSAL 
 SYMPATHIES 
 
 I HAVE told the story of Mr. Carnegie 
 and the foreign students. I recall other 
 occasions where his delight in meeting all 
 kinds of men was manifested. One night 
 I received an invitation to come to the house 
 to meet some of the representatives of Capi- 
 tal and Labor. If I remember rightly the 
 Civic Federation was holding its annual meet- 
 ing and many leaders of the labor groups and 
 trades unions were in the city, as well as 
 many of the big employers who were inter- 
 ested in the solution of the industrial problem. 
 When I arrived at the house I found one of 
 the most interesting groups I have ever seen 
 assembled. There were thirty or forty of the 
 heads of great steel plants, coal mines, rail- 
 roads, factories and other industries. They 
 were in dress suits, well-groomed, and per- 
 63 
 
64 Recollections of Andrew Caraegie 
 
 fectly at ease of course. With them were 
 forty or fifty labor leaders, presidents and 
 secretaries of trades unions of every sort. One 
 or two of these were in dress suits, most of 
 them were not. They were somewhat uncom- 
 fortable and ill at ease at first, too. They 
 were not used to great houses, nor to meeting 
 the heads of great Industries socially, and it 
 was quite evident, with the exception of two 
 or three, they were anxious for the supper 
 bell to ring, so to speak. Mr. Carnegie saw 
 this at once and he was perfectly delightful. 
 He moved around among these men chatting 
 with one and another and Introduced employ- 
 ers and labor leaders to each other and made 
 them talk. He then got the whole group out 
 into the big hall and made a delightful ad- 
 dress of welcome to them, dwelling upon the 
 fact that they would be much better fitted to 
 settle labor disputes if they all knew one an- 
 other personally, and then he called upon two 
 of the capitalists to speak and two of the la- 
 bor men. He then made them all join hands as 
 they happened to be standing and sing "Auld 
 Lang Syne" together. Then we all adjourned 
 to the supper room and by that time everyone 
 jvas feeling very much at ease. 
 
Universal Sympathies 65 
 
 Mr. Carnegie was a firm believer in the 
 trades union movement. He had come up 
 out of the ranks of the tollers and under- 
 stood them. He had contempt for idlers, 
 whether they were rich or poor, and he had 
 admiration for all hard workers whether they 
 worked with hand or brain. He once said 
 to me : "If I had been in the country at the 
 time of the Homestead strikes those regret- 
 table incidents connected with them would 
 never have happened: I even doubt if there 
 would have been any strikes." 
 
 One of the most interesting gatherings I 
 ever attended at Mr. Carnegie's home was a 
 luncheon which he gave for Count Apponyi. 
 Count Apponyi had long been known in 
 America as an exponent of hberal ideals in 
 Hungary. He had stepped down out of his 
 hereditary seat in the House of Lords and 
 stood for election in Parliament at the request 
 of the people. He was returned year after 
 year and became the apostle of liberalism in 
 Hungary. When the Interparliamentary 
 Union was formed he was one of the first to 
 become interested in it. The Interparliamen- 
 tary Union was the outgrowth of efforts on 
 the part of such men as Sir William Randall 
 
66 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 Cramer of England, Baron d'Estournelles de 
 Constant of France and the Hon. Samuel J. 
 Barrows and the Hon. Richard Bartholdt of 
 America to bring members of the several na- 
 tional parliaments together to discuss the var- 
 ious questions raised at the Hague Confer- 
 ences, the execution of arbitration treaties be- 
 tween the nations, the reduction of arma- 
 ments, and the creation of some form of a 
 permanent World Congress and World 
 Court. Mr. Carnegie was intensely inter- 
 ested in this great step forward and offered 
 his encouragement to Mr. Cremer at the be- 
 ginning. He had a great admiration for Mr. 
 Cremer, a carpenter who had come to be one 
 of the most powerful, although quiet, influ- 
 ences in the British Parliament, and had even 
 achieved knighthood. (Mr. Carnegie said one 
 day: "If any man ever deserved knighthood 
 he did. There never was a more outstanding 
 instance of a man getting an idea into his 
 head early in life and then devoting every 
 single minute of his life to bringing it to 
 pass. Some friends told me that Cremer, 
 when he first started to bring the legislators 
 together into the Interparliamentary Union, 
 would wait for three hours in some great 
 
Universal Sympathies 67 
 
 statesman's outside office to catch him and 
 get the scheme before him. They are the 
 fellows who do things, though.") 
 
 As I was saying, Count Apponyi was one 
 of the first parliamentarians to see the signifi- 
 cance of this new movement. (The move- 
 ment did catch the imagination of the world 
 and held some very successful meetings in 
 different cities from year to year. It is great- 
 ly to be hoped that after the tumult of mak- 
 ing peace has somewhat subsided it may be 
 reconvened. It could become a most valuable 
 appendage of the League of Nations.) 
 Count Apponyi saw its great possibilities and 
 contributed an article "The International Par- 
 liament" to The Independent of August 24, 
 19 10, which attracted wide attention. The 
 address which he made at Mr. Carnegie's 
 luncheon was the substance of this article. 
 There were about forty at the table, if I 
 remember rightly, and every one of them a 
 man distinguished In some way and a leader 
 in public affairs. 
 
 Mr. Carnegie in introducing Count Ap- 
 ponyi referred to the distinguished service he 
 had rendered the people of his home land 
 In securing for them larger liberties and 
 
68 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 rights. "And now he Is extending that serv- 
 ice to a larger sphere. He is helping to free 
 all humanity from tyrannies and oppressions. 
 He has seen that we cannot have free states 
 except in a free world. He has also seen 
 that the good of each Is the good of all. We 
 are all bound up together, we shall eventually 
 all rise or fall together." 
 
 Count Apponyi then made one of the most 
 eloquent addresses I ever heard. His com- 
 mand of English was wonderful and he spoke 
 it — and French also — as fluently as his own 
 tongue. What he said was, as I said above, 
 in substance the same as the article contrib- 
 uted to The Independent of New York. He 
 referred to the wonderful moral influence 
 America had exerted upon the whole world 
 by the force of its liberal and democratic 
 institutions. He referred to Mr. Roosevelt's 
 statement, that there was no power so strong 
 as to make America afraid of it and no na- 
 tion so weak as to have any reason to fear 
 her, as the program of a great democracy. 
 "Democracy can have but one sort of for- 
 eign policy: Boldly to uphold the banner of 
 international justice and fraternity" ; she may 
 rightly jnake, ready for self-defense so long 
 
Universal Sympathies 69 
 
 as there are predatory nations In the world, 
 "but the spirit of aggression is In contradic- 
 tion with her very nature, while the love of 
 peace and justice are essential Ingredients of 
 her mental complexion." He ended by re- 
 ferring to Mr. Carnegie's introductory re- 
 marks, how true they were : "Experience has 
 taught us what a safeguard our neighbors' 
 liberty is to our own and how the highest 
 interests of each nation are dependent on the 
 security of all. Even apart from the mere 
 ideal feelings of universal brotherhood, to- 
 wards which our souls naturally incline, na- 
 tional egoism is enlightened enough among 
 us to seek for guarantees of Its own welfare 
 in the concord and solidarity of mankind." 
 
 Mr. Carnegie was always inviting his 
 friends to his home to share some unique 
 experience or to enjoy with him some unusual 
 pleasure. One of the subjects which the Car- 
 negie Institution of Washington early be- 
 came interested in was that of Terrestrial 
 Magnetism. The non-magnetic ship "Car- 
 negie" was built — there was practically no 
 metal used in the ship's construction^ — and 
 sent into the Arctic Ocean to further that 
 magnetic survey of the globe the Institution 
 
70 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 was carrying forward. The ship carried a 
 splendid moving picture camera and some 
 wonderful films were made. Upon the re- 
 turn of the ship Mr. Carnegie invited a 
 group of his friends to his home to see these 
 pictures and hear the lecture of one of the 
 scientists who had been on the voyage. The 
 picture of the polar bears swimming among 
 the swaying ice-floes was one of the most 
 life-like things imaginable, and beautiful be- 
 yond words. In the course of the picture a 
 cub was captured and hoisted on to the deck 
 of the ship. The frantic efforts of the poor 
 mother bear to scale the side of the pitching 
 ship from the water aroused everyone's pity 
 and when the sailors threw the cub back into 
 the ocean and the old mother bear swam off 
 as fast as she could go with the baby bear 
 hanging, with its mouth, fast to her stubby 
 tail, everybody broke into applause. 
 
 After it was all over I said to Mr. Car- 
 negie "Weren't you glad the old lady got her 
 cub again?" 
 
 Ke looked at me, with his eyes shining and 
 said: "Do you know I got so excited while 
 that poor mother was trying to scale the side 
 of that ship that I almost jumped up to run 
 
Universal Sympathies 71 
 
 and throw the cub into the water." Then he 
 added: "I was thinking after they threw the 
 cub back: 'There is the difference between the 
 hunter and the scientist. The hunter would 
 have kept the cub and shot the mother; the 
 scientist gives back the cub and photographs 
 the mother.' The hunter of the future will 
 hunt with cameras instead of guns." 
 
 One winter another eminent visitor from 
 Hungary happened to be in America, Mon- 
 signor Giesswein, a well-known international- 
 ist, and he wished very much to meet Mr. 
 Carnegie. I took him up to the house one 
 afternoon and we found Mr. Carnegie out 
 in the garden taking the air. Together we 
 walked back and forth and talked on many 
 things. I think It was the first time that Mr. 
 Carnegie had come into very close contact 
 with an eminent continental representative 
 of the Roman Catholic Church, and that he 
 did not know just what was going to happen. 
 When, however, Monslgnor Giesswein said, 
 "Mr. Carnegie, I have always wanted to meet 
 you because of what you have done for the 
 cause of international peace", he found him- 
 self on common ground with him at once. 
 
 I then told Mr. Carnegie that Monslgnor 
 
72 Recollections of Andrew Ca rnegie 
 
 Giesswein was one of the leaders in the new 
 international movement in Europe and that 
 I had first met him at The International 
 Peace Conference at Geneva. Mr. Carnegie 
 at once began on a topic to which, a few years 
 later, he gave much thought, ending in some 
 very practical action, namely, the part the 
 Church might play in establishing lasting 
 peace among the nations. 
 
 He said: "I look to the Churches to be 
 the leaders in this movement to remove from 
 the world the last remnant of barbarism, 
 man killing man in the settlement of inter- 
 national disputes. It contradicts every word 
 of the teaching of the Prince of Peace and is 
 absolutely foreign to the spirit of His life. 
 He taught that all men were brothers and 
 the chief thing they have been engaged in 
 ever since is killing each other. Sometimes 
 it looks as though they enjoyed killing each 
 other more than they did being brothers." 
 
 The Monslgnor said: "Yes, sometimes it 
 did look that way. But I think you will be 
 interested in knowing, Mr. Carnegie, that a 
 change is coming over the Churches, the Cath- 
 olic Church as well as the Protestant, in their 
 attitude toward the great problems of society. 
 
Universal Sympathies 73 
 
 The Churches are beginning to see that they 
 have an obligation toward society as a whole, 
 toward the nation, as well as toward the in- 
 dividual. There are a good many men in the 
 Catholic Church in Europe who are beginning 
 to feel that the Church should address itself 
 to the task of ridding the world of war. I 
 wonder if you know how interested the Pope 
 is in this matter, and have you seen his re- 
 cent letter on this subject?" 
 
 "Yes," said Mr. Carnegie. "It is a great 
 letter and I hope it will be circulated by the 
 million. The Protestant Churches of Eng- 
 land and America are waking up. If all the 
 Churches of all the world would get together 
 and say: 'There shall be no more war,' that 
 would end it. But the trouble is that Chris- 
 tians put their country before their religion. 
 No matter what iniquitous course a nation 
 may adopt Christians will follow and the 
 Church will bless it." 
 
 The conversation ran on and again I think 
 that Mr. Carnegie was a little surprised to 
 find Monsignor Giesswein more radical than 
 he was on this question. I recall how the 
 conversation drifted over on to the question 
 of Christian Unity, Here was another sub- 
 
74 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 ject on which Mr. Carnegie always waxed 
 eloquent when it was broached. 
 
 I remember his saying with great emphasis : 
 "If Christians were all one, in one Church, 
 of one mind, and all the power now used in 
 rivalry with each other unitedly directed 
 against the evils of the world, intemperance, 
 war, poverty, ignorance, superstition, and dis- 
 ease — they could all soon be banished." 
 
 Monsignor Giesswein and I both of us 
 agreed with him absolutely but we said that 
 we thought he probably had an exaggerated 
 idea regarding the rivalry existing among the 
 denominations. They were simply each one 
 doing their own work along their own lines. 
 They could do it more effectively could they 
 get together — but they really were not dis- 
 puting among themselves very much in these 
 days or spreading their peculiarly denomina- 
 tional tenets. (I had a good many talks with 
 Mr. Carnegie on this subject and will come 
 back to it later.) 
 
 Mr. Carnegie and the Monsignor, who is 
 a very lovable man, enjoyed each other very 
 much and Mr. Carnegie invited him to come 
 and stay with him any time. 
 
 Some years afterwards, after the great con- 
 
Universal Sympathies 75 
 
 flict had begun, I remember Mr. Carnegie 
 saying one day: "I wonder what has hap- 
 pened to all my old friends in Germany and 
 Hungary. What a strange thing it is when 
 you think of it. Yesterday we were all talk- 
 ing of what we could do together to estab- 
 lish permanent peace and now here are Ger- 
 many and Austria fighting all Europe. Take 
 Apponyi and that nice prelate you brought to 
 see me, Monsignor Giesswein, I suppose they 
 probably hated this whole business as much 
 as we do, but they are swept into the cur- 
 rent. They are at war against some of their 
 best friends, too, for there are many men in 
 these various countries who had closer ties 
 with men of like minds in other countries 
 than in their own. That is one of the most 
 pathetic things about war in the present day — 
 the world has become so much one family 
 and there are so many international groups 
 and societies that, when a war comes and we 
 have to re-group ourselves again by nations, 
 it sets friend over against friend. Take your- 
 self, for instance, if we went to war with Eng- 
 land, you would be arrayed against Allen 
 Baker and a lot of men who are just as close 
 to you in every way as any American. War 
 
76 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 is an anachronism in a world that has become 
 so much one family." 
 
 One day I took Norman Angell up to see 
 Mr. Carnegie. Mr. Carnegie had been quite 
 anxious to meet him. Mr. Angell's book, 
 "The Great Illusion," had made more im- 
 pression than any other book dealing with 
 ■ war and peace in recent years. Mr. Car- 
 negie was never quite sure — at least when. I 
 talked with him about it — that the cost of 
 war had any deterrent effect upon a nation. 
 Nations generally did not go to war to make 
 money nor, when they did go to war, did 
 they ever think about cost. He thought Mr. 
 Angell's contention that even the victorious 
 nation did not really profit by a war abso- 
 lutely true, but he was not sure the knowl- 
 edge of this, even if the nation believed it, 
 had any deterrent power. 
 
 He said to me the next morning after Mr. 
 Angell had been there : "He is an interesting 
 man and I am real glad to have met him. It 
 is wonderful how he has set the world think- 
 ing on this whole subject. It is a good thing 
 to teach that war does not pay. Let him and 
 his school hammer away at it. But we who 
 believe that war is a survival of the beast ia 
 
Universal Sympathies 77 
 
 man and is a crime which is as foul a blot on 
 civilization as was slavery, must work all the 
 harder to lift mankind up on to a higher plane 
 and above all to show him the Christian 
 methods of settling international disputes. 
 The real reason nations enter upon war is 
 because certain groups within the nation are 
 not beyond the Pagan plane of development 
 in this one regard: like those who want to 
 fight Mexico and Japan, like those senators 
 who oppose arbitration. When they become 
 really Christian they won't want to kill their 
 brothers over anything." Then turning to me 
 he fairly shouted at me, "I'm a good deal 
 better Christian than some of these ministers 
 who shout war when a dispute arises between 
 us and another country." 
 
 I might say here that, while I shared Mr. 
 Carnegie's feelings somewhat about the de- 
 terrent effect upon nations of Mr. Angell's 
 argument In "The Great Illusion," I think 
 Mr. Carnegie, were he here, would agree with 
 me that the war has proven the absolute truth 
 of everything Mr. Angell said. It has not 
 paid Germany and would not have done so 
 had she been victorious. It has not paid the 
 nations that were victorious, forced Into it 
 
78 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 against their own will as they were. The 
 whole world is infinitely worse off and every 
 nation that participated in it is. If Germany 
 had compelled the Allies to seek the armistice 
 instead of the Allies compelling Germany, and 
 if the Treaty had been framed in her favor, 
 we should still have had an impoverished 
 world full of revolution, hatreds, jealousies, 
 high prices, anarchy, strikes and general un- 
 rest, as we have now. Mr. Angell really con- 
 tends, to sum up his whole argument, that 
 aggressive war is suicide. All but the blind 
 see its truth now. If Mr. Carnegie were here 
 I think he would feel it a good time to press 
 this view home upon the nations. 
 
yi 
 
 THE PAN-AMERICAN 
 
 MR. CARNEGIE was always looking 
 forward to a united western hem- 
 isphere. I do not mean that he 
 wanted to see all the Americas under one 
 flag. He never did cherish that ideal. But 
 he did believe that they were all bound to- 
 gether by common interests and he was al- 
 ways looking forward to a time when they 
 should have some form of organization and 
 he was always doing everything he could to 
 promote mutual acquaintance and understand- 
 ing between the United States and Mexico, 
 Central and South America. He favored 
 the railroad which was to go the whole 
 length of the two continents more from a 
 feeling that it would be a bond of union than 
 from any financial interest. When in Decem- 
 ber, 1907, delegates from the five Central 
 American Republics — Costa Rica, Guate- 
 79 
 
80 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 mala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Salvador — 
 met in Washington and concluded nine 
 treaties and conventions looking toward 
 the arbitration of all disputes and providing 
 for the establishment of a Central American 
 Court of Justice, Mr. Carnegie was so 
 pleased that he Immediately built them a 
 beautiful court house at Cartego. (This first 
 building was destroyed by the earthquake and 
 Mr. Carnegie Immediately built an even more 
 beautiful structure at San Jose, Costa Rica.) 
 When, In 1889, while the Honorable James 
 G. Blaine was Secretary of State, an Interna- 
 tional American Conference was held in 
 Washington, Mr. Carnegie could hardly con- 
 tain himself, so pleased was he with this step. 
 "It's the beginning of a new era for Amer- 
 ica," he kept saying over and over. Out of 
 this remarkable Congress the Pan-American 
 Union was born, the assembly voting to es- 
 tablish "a voluntary organization of the 
 twenty-one American Republics, including the 
 United States, maintained by their annual 
 contributions, controlled by a governing 
 board composed of the diplomatic represen- 
 tatives in Washington, of the other twenty 
 governments, and the Secretary of State of 
 
The Pan-American 81 
 
 the United States, who is Chairman ex-of- 
 ficio, and devoted to the development and 
 conservation of peace, friendship and com- 
 merce between them all." 
 
 The new union was a success from the be- 
 ginning and by 1906, when Mr. Root was 
 Secretary of State, its permanency, as well as 
 Its usefulness, was so assured that Mr. Root 
 wrote Mr. Carnegie asking him If he would 
 not like to provide a permanent home for the 
 Union. Mr. Carnegie's letter is so character- 
 istic and so full of the joy he took in giving 
 that I quote it here in full: 
 
 New York, January i, 1907. 
 Hon. Ellhu Root, 
 
 Secretary of State and ex-Officio Chairman 
 of the Governing Board of the Bureau 
 of South American Republics, Washing- 
 ton, D. C. 
 Dear Sir: 
 
 I am pleased that you and your colleagues 
 of the South American Republics have done 
 me the honor to suggest that I might furnish 
 a suitable home in Washington for the Bu- 
 reau of American Republics. 
 
 The approval of your application by the 
 
82 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 Governing Board of the International Bu- 
 reau, and President Roosevelt's hearty expres- 
 sions of satisfaction, are most gratifying. 
 
 You very kindly mention my membership 
 of the first Pan-American Conference and 
 advocacy of the Pan-American Railway, the 
 gaps of which are being slowly filled. The- 
 importance of this enterprise impresses itself 
 more and more upon me, and I hope to see 
 it accomplished. 
 
 I am happy, therefore, in stating that it 
 will be one of the pleasures of my life to furn- 
 ish to the Union of all the Republics of this 
 hemisphere, the necessary funds ($750,000) 
 from time to time as may be needed for the 
 construction of an international home in 
 Washington. 
 
 The cooperation of our own Republic is 
 seen in the appropriation ojf funds by Con- 
 gress for the purchase of the site, and in the 
 agreement between the Republics for the 
 maintenance of the Bureau we have addi- 
 tional evidence of cooperation, so that the 
 forthcoming American Temple of Peace will 
 be the joint work of all of the Republics. 
 Every generation should see them drawing 
 closer together. 
 
The Pan-American 83 
 
 It is a cheering thought that all these are 
 for the first time to be represented at the 
 forthcoming Hague Conference. Henceforth 
 they are members of that body, whose aim 
 is the settlement of international disputes by 
 that "High Court of Nations" or other simi- 
 lar tribunal. 
 
 I beg to express to each and all of them 
 my heartfelt thanks for being permitted to 
 make such a New Year's gift as this. I have 
 never felt more keenly than I do this New 
 Year's morning how much more blessed it is 
 to give than to receive, and I consider my- 
 self highly honored by being considered 
 worthy to provide the forthcoming union 
 home, where the accredited representatives 
 of all the Republics are to meet and, I trust, 
 to bind together their respective nations in 
 the bonds of unbroken peace. 
 
 Very truly yours, 
 
 Andrew Carnegie. 
 
 The beautiful building was ready for dedi- 
 cation in 19 10 and finally April 26th was set 
 upon as the date. I happened to be in Mr. 
 Carnegie's library about a week before this 
 date and he was looking forward to the event 
 
84 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 as a child looks forward to its first visit to the 
 city. He kept returning to it, no matter on 
 what subject we might be talking. Finally 
 he said: "You're going down, of course?" 
 
 "I want to go very much," I answered. 
 
 "Of course you must go— you and Holt, 
 too. You go get him and come along." 
 
 Mr. Holt and I went and we all had a very 
 happy day in Washington, Mr. Carnegie one 
 of the happiest he ever had. It was when he 
 saw this exquisitely beautiful white marble 
 palace there before him that he made a re- 
 mark which was quoted all over the world, 
 but which was a perfect revelation of that 
 childlikeness in him which was one of the 
 chief charms of his personality. Looking at 
 the building he exclaimed: 
 
 "I simply touch my pen to a piece of paper 
 and this palace rises out of the ground." 
 
 He was the Modern Aladdin. 
 
 April twenty-sixth was a beautiful day and 
 a great crowd gathered for the ceremonies. 
 The formal dedication was held in the Hall 
 of the Republics on the second floor of the 
 Palace. The invited guests, including the 
 Diplomatic Corps of all the Republics, the 
 Supreme Court, members of the Cabinet, 
 
The Pan-American 85 
 
 members of Congress and a few other invited 
 guests, filled the Hall, while on the platform 
 were the President of the United States (Mr. 
 Taft) , Senator Root, Secretary of State 
 Knox, Senor Don Francisco Leon de la Barra, 
 Cardinal Gibbons, Hon. John Barrett, Bishop 
 Harding, and Mr. Kelsey, the architect. Mr. 
 Holt and I had seats In the front row right 
 under the speakers' desk and felt that we were 
 highly favored. 
 
 The invocation was made by Cardinal Gib- 
 bons. Secretary Knox then called upon the 
 Director of the Pan-American Union, who 
 gave the history of the Union and of the 
 building. Mr. Kelsey, the architect, then in- 
 terpreted the building to the group. The 
 three main addresses then followed, one by 
 Mr. Root, one by Mr. de la Barra, speaking 
 for the Latin Americans, one by the Presi- 
 dent . It was on this occasion Mr. Taft used 
 the expression which Mr. Carnegie was al- 
 ways quoting in his future addresses and ap- 
 plying it to the world. He said: 
 
 "We twenty-one republics can not afford 
 to have any two or any three of us quarrel. 
 We must stop. And Mr. Carnegie and I will 
 not be satisfied until all nineteen of us can in- 
 
86 Eecollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 tervene by proper measures to suppress a 
 quarrel between any other two." 
 
 Again and again in the years since then Mr. 
 Carnegie would come back to this, adding: 
 "Only we must apply it to the world. All the 
 nations of the world are as much one now as 
 are the American republics. The moment 
 any nation anywhere starts to go to war 
 against another, the other nations should have 
 the right to say 'You must stop.' " 
 
 There was great applause when Mr. Car- 
 negie was introduced. He rose to the occasion 
 as he always did. He paid feeling tribute to 
 all who had been associated with him in the 
 fostering of the Bureau of South American 
 Republics, who had brought the Pan-Ameri- 
 can Union to its present success, and spoke 
 especially of Senor Nabuco, Brazil's great 
 Ambassador, who had only recently passed 
 away. 
 
 He then complimented the Latin American 
 nations on the great progress they had made, 
 and pleased them greatly with his words. The 
 main part of his address was devoted to the 
 thought to which he was continually recurring 
 in his public address, that acquaintanceship 
 breeds friendship rather than dislike, and that 
 
The Pan-American 87 
 
 it was contrary to the laws of human nature 
 for a man to be fit judge of his own cause. 
 Let me quote from the middle of his ad- 
 dress, not only because of what is in it, but 
 because it was carefully listened to by such 
 an audience as very few men ever had oppor- 
 tunity of addresssing: 
 
 "Mr. Chairman, fully am I persuaded that 
 the rulers and statesmen of the earth, all of 
 whom are to-day constantly proclaiming their 
 earnest desire for peace, are sincere in their 
 protestations. Why, then, is this universally 
 desired peace not promptly secured ? Equally 
 am I persuaded that the true root of the fail- 
 ure lies in the fact that these rulers and states- 
 men know not each other well. They are 
 strangers, and therefore naturally and mu- 
 tually suspicious. When a difference arises, 
 they meet as strangers, knowing not the sin- 
 cerity, the truthfulness, the keen sense of 
 honor, and the earnest desire for peace of 
 their fellow-statesmen. The French have a 
 proverb — 'We only hate those we do not 
 know.' The reverse is also self-evidently 
 true — 'We only love those we do know.' 
 
 "Two men differ; if strangers, the probable 
 result is strife. Two friends differ; the prob- 
 
88 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 able result is peaceful settlement either by 
 themselves, or, failing that, by arbitration 
 of friends, and the two friends become dearer 
 to each other than before. Why? Because 
 neither has assumed to sit as judge in his 
 own cause, which violates the first principles 
 of natural justice. The greatest crime that 
 either man or nation can commit is to insist 
 upon doing that which would consign the 
 judge upon the bench to infamy if he ever 
 dared to sit in judgment upon a cause in which 
 he was an interested party. In nations which 
 still tolerate the duel, its practice is rapidly 
 falling into disrepute, and a court of honor is 
 coming into general use, first to determine 
 whether the two foes are justified in break- 
 ing the peace. 
 
 "One of the chief missions of this palace 
 should be, as their natural home, to draw to- 
 gether the diplomats and representative men 
 of all our Republics and enable them to know 
 each other and learn of the sterling virtues 
 of their colleagues, and especially their earn- 
 est desire for the prosperity of all their neigh- 
 bors and their anxious hope that peace shall 
 ever reign between them. Thus these states- 
 men will become lifelong friends to whom 
 
The Pan-American 89 
 
 may safely be intrusted the settlement of any 
 international difference that may arise. Above 
 all, we may expect that between such friends 
 no one would insist upon sitting as judge upon 
 his own cause were the other to propose leav- 
 ing the difference to a mutual friend. This, 
 then, is one of the greatest missions of this 
 international meeting ground in which we are 
 assembled. Nor will its mission be fulfilled 
 until every Republic, and, I fondly hope, Can- 
 ada also included, shall have agreed to lay 
 aside the sword." 
 
 At the close of these formal exercises we 
 all went down into the court, or "patio," as 
 it is called in Latin America. The space was 
 filled with tropical plants and in warm 
 weather the great glass roof slides back by 
 electricity so that it is an open garden. In 
 this patio Mr. Taft and Mr. Carnegie to- 
 gether planted a "peace tree." (I have the 
 photograph taken at the time. Mr. Taft is 
 holding the shovel, and Mr. Carnegie stands 
 beside him, his face all benevolence and 
 smiles.) In the evening the Governing Board 
 of the Bureau gave a reception, to the Presi- 
 dent of the United States and Mr. and Mrs. 
 Carnegie, About fifteen hundred people 
 
90 Eecollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 shook hands with them, after which supper 
 was served downstairs. Just before we went 
 away I went up to Mr. Carnegie to say good- 
 night to him. I said, "How beautiful it all 
 is — and how happy you have been to-day." 
 
 "Yes, it's like a dream," he answered and 
 then, with that delightful little glint of fun 
 that occasionally came into his eyes, he said: 
 "You know how much I have written about 
 rich men being sad? Well, to-night I'm rather 
 glad I'm rich." 
 
VII 
 LOVER OF POETRY AND MUSIC 
 
 ONE day we were si'-ting in the big li- 
 brary which faces Fifth Avenue and 
 from which one looks across to Cen- 
 tral Park, talking about poetry. Suddenly he 
 eaid, "I will read you a real poem," where- 
 upon he went off into his little den which is 
 on the south end of the library, and returned 
 with a piece of cardboard in his hand — and 
 I have that cardboard before me as I write, 
 with Mr. Carnegie's autograph on it. 
 
 "Here's one of the best poems I've seen 
 in a long time," he said. "It's really worthy 
 of Burns. It appeared in the Dunfermline 
 Press and was signed simply by the initials 
 'R. C I havn't any idea who the man is; 
 but as soon as I read the poem I sat down and 
 wrote a letter to the Dunfermline Press and 
 I've since printed the poem and my letter to- 
 gether on this card. Let me read it to you." 
 It was a perfect delight to hear Mr. Car- 
 91 
 
92 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 negie recite poetry, especially Scotch verse. 
 He had the Celtic temperament and dramatic 
 instinct to the full. He once told me that 
 Henry Irving said to him at Skibo after hear- 
 ing him recite some verses — very likely these 
 very verses, for he loved to recite them : "You 
 would have made a greater actor than me had 
 you gone on the stage, Mr. Carnegie." 
 
 Well, Mr. Carnegie straightened himself 
 up, standing in front of the fireplace, and with 
 tears glistening in his eyes recited the follow- 
 ing verses. I think my readers will all agree 
 with Mr. Carnegie, as I did, that they are real 
 poetry: 
 
 ME AND ANDRA 
 
 We're puir bit craiturs, Andra, you an' me, 
 Ye hae a bath in a marble tub, I dook in the sea. 
 Cafe au kit in a silver joog for breakfast gangs to you; 
 I sup my brose wi' a horn spuin an' eat till I'm fu'. 
 
 An' there's nae great differ, Andra, hardly ony. 
 My sky is as clear as yours, an' the cluds are as 
 
 bonnie ; 
 I whussle a tune thro' my teeth to mysel' that costs 
 
 nae money. 
 
 The bobolink pipes in the orchards white in your hame 
 
 on the ither side; 
 Gray whaups cry up on oor muir t' me, white seamaws 
 
 soom on oor tide. 
 
Lover of Poetry and Music 93 
 
 An organ bums in your marble hall wi' mony a sough 
 
 an' swell; 
 I list to the roar o' the wind an' the sea in the hollow 
 
 o' a shell. 
 
 An' there's nae great differ, Andra — ^hardly ony 
 
 ava. 
 For the measure that throbs thro' eternal things to 
 
 me is as braw, 
 An' it wafts me up to the gate o' God to hear His 
 
 choir ana*. 
 
 We're draiglit bit craiturs, Andra, plowterin' i' the 
 
 glaur, 
 Paidlin' ilk in oor ane bit dub, and glowerin' ilk at his 
 
 star; 
 Rakin' up the clert o' the trink till oor Faither airts us 
 
 hame, 
 Whiles wi' a strap, whiles wi' a kiss, or carryin' us 
 
 when we're lame. 
 
 AU' there's nae great differ, Andra, we're sib as 
 
 peas in a cod, 
 Ill-faured weans at the best — the draiglit wi' the 
 
 snod; 
 An' we'll a' get peyed what we're ocht, Andra, 
 
 when we gang hame to God. 
 
 What if I win fame or gear, Andra, what if I fail. 
 Be gleg as a fumart whitrock, or dull as a snail? 
 It'll be a' ane in a hunder year whether I sally or slide — 
 The nicht sits as dark on a brawlin' linn as it broods 
 on a sleepin' tide. 
 
 An' there's nae great differ, Andra, whether ye 
 
 bum or bizz; 
 If no a wheel ye may be a clink— if we canna pull 
 
 we can bruiz; 
 We maun tak' the world as we find it, lad, an' 
 
 content wi't as it is. 
 
94 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 "That's the best poetry I've heard for 
 years," I said when Mr. Carnegie stopped: 
 "That second quatrain touches genius." 
 
 "Now hear what I wrote to the Dunferm- 
 line Press — the letter is printed on this card. 
 I said: 
 
 "'Dear Sir: Please tell "R. C." that I 
 have greatly enjoyed his verses. He is both 
 philosopher and poet, but he cannot know, 
 as I do, how trifling are the advantages of 
 wealth. He has to imagine one side. I have 
 lived both, and have learned that 
 
 "If happiness has not its seat 
 
 And centre in the breast, 
 We may be wise, or rich, or great, 
 
 But never can be blessed." 
 
 Beyond a competence for old age, and that 
 need not be great, and may be very small, 
 wealth lessens rather than increases human 
 happiness. Millionaires who laugh are rare. 
 This Is just as it should be, and "R. C." has 
 done a bit of good work (better than most 
 sermons) in putting a great truth so vividly 
 before us. 
 
 " 'I hope he has more of such ore to smelt. 
 Yours truly, Andrew Carnegie.' " 
 
 "That's a good letter," I said, "but the 
 
Lover of Poetry and Music 95 
 
 trouble Is nobody believes you when you talk 
 about wealth being a burden." 
 
 "I suppose that's true," he answered. "But 
 I have worked infinitely harder trying to 
 make the right disposition of money than I 
 ever did to earn it. Money just came. But 
 it came to me and it is my duty to put it where 
 it will do most for human betterment. Does 
 anyone think it's an easy task to distribute 
 four hundred million dollars wisely, distrib- 
 ute it as if one were going to be called to give 
 an account of it some day? It's the most ter- 
 rible responsibility that ever fell upon a man. 
 Sometimes I just wish I could get rid of all 
 the worry of it for good — and be care-free 
 as when I was a boy. But it has been a great 
 pleasure, of course, to see the results of what 
 has been given." 
 
 I have had occasion several times to speak 
 of Mr. Carnegie's love for music. So far as 
 I know he had had no training in it — it was 
 simply the response of a poetic, romantic 
 nature to the appeal of harmony and melody. 
 It transported him. He sought rest and re- 
 freshment in it from the many cares and prob- 
 lems that were incidental to his vast affairs. 
 But it was much more than that. It was 
 
96 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 worship to him. He prayed not with words 
 but through music. The voice of the eternal 
 reached him through the organ, or the or- 
 chestra, or the voice. He loved especially the 
 organ and the oratorios. He was also very 
 fond of a big orchestra, especially when it 
 played the great symphonies. He did not 
 enjoy the modern complex orchestral music 
 quite so much. His nature was too simple to 
 feel the appeal of the turbulency and com- 
 plexities of the later schools. The opera he 
 liked occasionally, but much of the modern 
 opera was too dramatic and Intense for his 
 calm and reposeful soul. He surrounded 
 himself with music. He had an organ in the 
 hall of the house on Fifth Avenue and had a 
 musician come in regularly to flood the house 
 with sweet tones. He loved to hear it early 
 in the day, when he was rising or break- 
 fasting. He once said to me jokingly: "This 
 is the only extravagance I have." Then he 
 added: "But what better way to begin the 
 day than with music. It's my morning wor- 
 ship." It really was worship with him. I 
 have referred to the fact that he was always 
 quoting the great sentence of Confucius: 
 "Music, sacred Tongue of God, I hear thee 
 
Lover of Poetry and Music 97 
 
 calling and I come." He always did come. 
 A strain of music would arrest him any- 
 where and almost the only times I ever saw 
 him angry were when people carried on con- 
 versation during music. To talk while music 
 was being played was as much sacrilege to 
 him as it would be sacrilege to a devout 
 Catholic to talk while the Host was being 
 elevated. I doubt if he ever had the same 
 respect afterwards for a man or woman who 
 carried on conversation during music. 
 
 He showed his interest in music in many 
 ways besides giving Church organs. He was 
 President of the New York Oratorio Society 
 for many years and attended all its concerts. 
 The chorus would now and then come to his 
 house and sing for hlm^ — on a birthday, or at 
 Christmas time — and he would then make 
 the most delightful addresses. I remember 
 one outstanding night in Carnegie Hall. We 
 were at that time seemingly on the verge of 
 war with Mexico. The Central and South 
 American states had offered their services as 
 arbitrators in the difficulty. Mr. Carnegie 
 had, with voice and pen, been advocating the 
 acceptance of this offer. The evening on 
 which the concert of the Oratorio Society 
 
98 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 came was the critical evening. Washington 
 had been deliberating all through the day. 
 Feeling was very tense but no news appeared 
 in the evening paper. About nine o'clock a 
 telegram came to him from Washington that 
 the offer to arbitrate had been accepted. It 
 was immediately carried to Mr. Carnegie at 
 the Hall. The moment the intermission in 
 the Oratorio came he hurried around to the 
 stage and appeared before the audience. 
 Everybody supposed he was simply going to 
 make one of those delightful speeches of ap- 
 preciation, as President of the Society, which 
 he frequently made on anniversary occasion* 
 or at the closing concert of the season. But 
 he was too full of joy over what had hap- 
 pened to think of the Society at that moment. 
 Holding the telegram aloft in his hand he 
 told the audience the good news — that war 
 had been averted, that the two Nations, the 
 United States and Mexico, had agreed to 
 settle their dispute by arbitration — that it 
 marked another great step forward in the 
 world's history, that two nations had come to 
 see that a nation could no more be a judge 
 of its own case than could a man — that they 
 in that hall were in the presence of a great 
 
Lover of Poetry and Music 99 
 
 moment, and at what more fitting time could 
 the news come than when they were sur- 
 rounded by music — for music was the expres- 
 sion of peace, harmony, happiness, through 
 law. 
 
 Great applause greeted Mr. Carnegie's 
 announcement for no one except the jingoes 
 really wanted war with Mexico, but Mr. 
 Carnegie was not done. When he had got 
 through with Mexico he turned to the several 
 hundred singers who surrounded him and be- 
 gan talking about their music — and about 
 them. I wish I could recall his words. They 
 were very beautiful and, as always, just the 
 right words. He knew how to pay a compli- 
 ment as well as anyone I ever knew. He said 
 the thing that made everybody happy and yet 
 did not overdo it. I remember that he did say 
 to the singers that every time he heard them 
 it gave him a foretaste of heaven, that he 
 could understand why the poet always pic- 
 tured heaven in terms of music, that music 
 was the one thing in this world that 
 was always sure, that it was the one thing 
 that would be the same in all worlds, it was 
 built on eternal lines, and then, turning again 
 to the singers, he said : "If I could hear you 
 
100 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 sing in heaven as you have sung here to-night, 
 I should be satisfied." 
 
 I was upstairs in Mr. Bertram's box but I 
 hurried down to Mr. Carnegie's on the floor 
 below and arrived there just before he did. 
 When he came in he was as happy as a child 
 > — all radiant. 
 
 "Isn't it great news?" he said at once. "It 
 is not so much that this present crisis has 
 passed, for I do not think we would have had 
 war with Mexico anyhow. It is the example 
 to the world. When a great Nation like 
 ours consents to arbitrate it sets a precedent. 
 Other great nations can do it more easily 
 now." (I often think of these words when I 
 remember how Grey — as afterwards Prince 
 Lichnowsky testified — in trying to persuade 
 Austria and Germany to arbitrate the case 
 with Serbia referred to just such cases of suc- 
 cessful arbitration as these of the United 
 States and other nations.) The music began 
 and I went back to my chair leaving Mr. 
 Carnegie with eyes closed and Mexico and 
 everything else forgotten. 
 
VIII 
 VIEWS ON EDUCATION 
 
 I. HAD a good many talks with Mr. Car- 
 negie on education. He had very pro- 
 nounced views as everybody knows, and 
 gave expression to them in many addresses 
 and in his letter founding the Technical 
 Schools at Pittsburgh. In that letter he said : 
 "It is really astonishing how many of the 
 world's foremost men have begun as manual 
 laborers. The greatest of all, Shakespeare, 
 was a wool carder; Burns, a plowman; Co- 
 lumbus, a sailor; Hannibal, a blacksmith; 
 Lincoln, a rail-splitter; Grant, a turner, and 
 I know of no better foundation from which 
 to ascend than manual labor in youth." This 
 last sentence was something of a creed with 
 Mr. Carnegie and I am not sure that he ever 
 could have come to put so high a value on 
 cultural training as some of us do. I think 
 he really felt that Oxford and Cambridge 
 were wasting a very precious lot of time on 
 
 lOI 
 
102 Recollections of Andrew Gametes 
 
 the classics and philosophy, and have known 
 him to get quite heated on this subject and 
 sometimes to speak with considerable con- 
 tempt of the whole classical curriculum. He 
 had such a strong conviction that the first 
 essential of training was to fit a boy to be- 
 come self-supporting and independent and 
 also contribute directly to his family that it 
 was difficult for him to see the value of a 
 training which might not contribute so much 
 to these immediate things as to a certain large- 
 ness of character, breadth of vision, and 
 power of leadership in later times. And yet 
 he was continually making great donations 
 to those colleges which stressed entirely the 
 cultural side of education. The colleges which 
 have, almost above all others adhered to 
 the cultural traditions are those of Scotland. 
 He established in the Scottish Universities a 
 trust of $10,000,000 for assisting boys of 
 slender income to avail themselves of Uni- 
 versity training, or, to quote his own words, 
 "by rendering attendance at these universities 
 and the enjoyment of their advantages more 
 available to the deserving and qualified youth 
 of that country to whom the payment of fees 
 might act as a barrier to the enjoyment of 
 
Views on Education lOS 
 
 these advantages." (It is significant, how- 
 ever, that, while not in any wise dictating how 
 the large income of this trust was to be spent, 
 he did say in his Trust Deed: "Deeming it 
 to be my duty and one of my highest priv- 
 ileges to administer the wealth which has 
 come to me as a trustee on behalf of others, 
 and entertaining the confident belief that one 
 of the best means of my discharging that trust 
 is by providing funds for improving and ex- 
 tending the opportunities for scientific study 
 and research in the Universities of Scotland, 
 my native land." . . . Here one finds the 
 emphasis on "scientific" creeping in,' and in 
 the constitution of the Trust — which Mr. 
 Carnegie did not write, but in which the 
 trustees naturally tried to carry out Mr. 
 Carnegie's educational ideals to some extent 
 — it is provided that half the annual income 
 shall go toward the expansion of the facul- 
 ties of science and of medicine. The other 
 half of the income is for the use of any de- 
 serving boy taking any course. Mr. Carnegie 
 also gave large suras to other colleges where 
 the cultural ideal is uppermost. 
 
 As a matter of fact, while he had con- 
 siderable appreciation of the classics, ho 
 
104 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 thought that all there was of worth in them 
 could be had by reading them in English. I 
 think, too, that he felt they were somewhat 
 overestimated — that they had been made 
 somewhat of a fetich. He was a great be- 
 liever in evolution in the realm of the spirit 
 and of the mind as well as in the world of ma- 
 terial things, and so, while the past was val- 
 uable, as sources are always important, yet 
 the present was better and somewhat suiHcient 
 to itself. On the other hand, he was often 
 quoting the ancient sages. 
 
 I was present once at a discussion on edu- 
 cation, where he expressed himself very 
 freely. It was at a little dinner at the home 
 of Prof. Samuel T. Button. Among those 
 at the table was Principal Frissell, of Hamp- 
 ton Institute, who shared Mr. Carnegie's 
 views on the supremacy of vocational and in- 
 dustrial training. The talk naturally ran 
 along the line of education, as there were 
 three other distinguished leaders in education 
 present. Dr. Frissell was advancing the idea 
 that the whole curriculum of our colleges was 
 antiquated, and that the chief emphasis should 
 be placed on the vocational side, and, except 
 for the special boy, training in science, me- 
 
Views on Education 105 
 
 chanics and handwork should receive chief at- 
 tention. The whole emphasis of the con- 
 versation was leaning toward doing. Mr. 
 Carnegie was rather falling in with these 
 views. I suddenly ventured the question 
 whether there was not something to be said 
 for education for being as well as for doing, 
 and I reminded Mr. Carnegie that for sev- 
 eral generations Scotland had been produc- 
 ing man after man who had been of outstand- 
 ing character and ability, and that not only 
 in Scotland, but in England these men who 
 had been doing the big things were men who 
 had been educated in the great cultural 
 schools, and had generally been trained with 
 little thought of what they were to do in after 
 life. The British point of view seemed to be: 
 "Make a big man and he can do anything." 
 To this Mr. Carnegie replied: "There is 
 some danger that we who believe that tech- 
 nical and scientific education is the chief 
 thing, will become as extreme in our views 
 as the advocates of the classical training are 
 in theirs. What we have got to do is so to 
 balance our education that boys should be 
 taught to do some one thing well and at the 
 same time be able to appreciate the best things 
 
106 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 in life. Tiie only thing that I insist on is that 
 boys should be educated for the world in 
 which they live and not for a world which has 
 passed away. This means adaptation of our 
 colleges to the times and I am not sure they 
 are all making these adaptations." 
 
 At this same dinner he got to talking about 
 the influence of women. On this subject he 
 waxed eloquent. He was a little afraid of the 
 feminist movement, not feeling quite sure 
 about its consequences, and because of his own 
 experience of what a wonderful sphere the 
 home offered the real woman. He said: "A 
 woman who can enter into the life of her hus- 
 band, sharing all his cares, bringing to him a 
 refining influence that counteracts the coarser 
 elements of the world in which he works, who 
 makes a really beautiful home, and brings up 
 children to be fine, good men and women, does 
 more for the world than any woman can ever 
 do in politics or public life." 
 
 He then told us about his mother — what a 
 wonderful woman she had been — how wise 
 and brave. This led him to talk about Dun- 
 fermline and his boyhood. He always had a 
 tender place for Scotland in his heart, and re- 
 turned there every summer until the wai; 
 
Views on Education 107 
 
 came. But he loved America, his adopted 
 country and the country which gave him his 
 great opportunity, and was a most loyal citi- 
 zen. He used often to say: "One can love 
 his mother and his wife at the same time." 
 But the home of his childhood was often in 
 his thoughts and sometimes I think the most 
 beautiful thing he ever wrote was the letter 
 in which he conveyed Pittencrief Park and 
 Glen, and two million five hundred thousand 
 dollars to the corporation of Dunfermline. 
 Let me quote one or two passages here, for 
 they deserve wide publicity and show how 
 really Mr. Carnegie bore upon his heart the 
 welfare of the people : 
 
 "The trust deed, of which this may be con- 
 sidered explanatory, transfers to you Pitten- 
 crief Park and Glen, and two million five hun- 
 dred thousand dollars in five per cent, bonds, 
 giving you an annual revenue of twenty-five 
 thousand pounds, all to be used in attempts 
 to bring into the monotonous lives of the toil- 
 ing masses of Dunfermline more of sweetness 
 and light; to give to them — especially the 
 young — some charm, some happiness, some 
 elevating condition of life which residence 
 elsewhere would have denied; that the child 
 
108 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 of my native town, looking back in after 
 years, however far from home it may have 
 roamed, will feel that simply by virtue of 
 being such, life has been made happier and 
 better. If this be the fruit of your labor you 
 will have succeeded; if not, you will have 
 failed." 
 
 Here is another passage from this same 
 letter : 
 
 "The problem you have to solve is : What 
 can be done in towns for the benefit of the 
 masses by money in the hands of the most 
 public spirited citizens? If you prove that 
 good can be done, you open new fields to the 
 rich, which I am certain they are to be more 
 and more anxious to find for their surplus 
 wealth. Remember, you are pioneers, and do 
 not be afraid of making mistakes ; those who 
 never make mistakes never make anything. 
 Try many things freely, but discard just as 
 freely. As it is the masses you are to benefit, 
 it follows you have to keep in touch with them 
 and must carry them with you. Therefore, 
 do not put before their first steps that which 
 they cannot take easily, but always that which 
 leads upward as their tastes improve." 
 
IX 
 SOME CONVERSATIONS 
 
 WHEN I wrote my first book on inter- 
 national affairs, "The Peace Prob- 
 lem," I took the page proof to Mr. 
 Carnegie and asked him if he would write 
 an introduction to the book. When I went 
 after it again about a week afterwards, I 
 found he had gone through the pages with 
 most meticulous cafe, and made several cor- 
 rections and suggestions, and had even cor- 
 rected trifling errors of punctuation. His cor- 
 rections were all improvements and we talked 
 over some suggested changes for a long time. 
 When I told him how much I appreciated his 
 giving so much time and attention to this 
 book he laughingly said: "You ought to put 
 my name on here as joint author." "All 
 right," I said, "I've no objections. It jvould 
 probably greatly Increase its sale." 
 109 
 
110 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 "I don't think we need worry about its 
 sale," he said with a mischievous look in his 
 eyes. (He afterwards distributed the book 
 somewhat widely throughout the country.) 
 
 He gave me the introduction and I noticed 
 at once It was in the extremest form of sim- 
 plified spelling. I wanted to say: "Won't you 
 put it in the English language Mr, Carnegie ?" 
 ' — but said nothing. When I took It to the 
 publishers, though, it was another matter. 
 They hesitated over It a long time, then 
 finally printed It just as he wrote it: "1 hav 
 red this book, &c., &c." When I told him 
 about it he laughed and said: "Publishers arc 
 a backward and benighted lot anyhow." 
 I I then told him the story of how, when the 
 journal with which I was connected — "The 
 Christian Work" — had, under Dr. Joseph 
 Newton Hallock, begun to adopt certain of 
 the new spellings, one of the subscribers, a 
 dear old lady, wrote in, asking to be dropped 
 from the subscription fist, because, she said : 
 "I do not want to pick up any paper after my 
 dear husband dies and read: 'Dr. ~ — .. is 
 very much mist.'" He and Dr. Hallock 
 stuck to their principles to the end and Mr. 
 Carnegie never quite forgave me for revert- 
 
Some Conversations 111 
 
 ing to the old spelling after I had bought 
 The Christian Work. 
 
 When Dr. Hallock, who had owned The 
 Christian Work for a good many years, and 
 who had bought The Evangelist, made 
 famous by Dr. Henry M. Field, and The 
 Observer, with which the names of Dr. Ire- 
 naeus Prime and Dr. Charles Augustus Stod- 
 dard had been so long connected, reached old 
 age he intimated more than once that he 
 wished the paper might pass into my hands. 
 I had begun my connection with it by writing 
 a weekly letter: "The Observer," and was 
 soon writing most of its editorials. When 
 Dr. Hallock passed away the editorial policy 
 of the paper was practically in my hands. 
 Dr. Hallock's son, Mr. William Watson 
 Hallock, and I at once held a conference and 
 I found I could purchase the paper on very 
 favorable terms. I hardly knew what to do. 
 I decided before doing anything to go straight 
 to Mr. Carnegie, as I often did in personal 
 matters and ask his advice. I am relating 
 this incident to show how he, although en- 
 grossed in affairs of vast magnitude, and con- 
 
112 Recollections of Andre w Carnegie 
 
 nected with great movements, would drop 
 everything to render some service to some one 
 whom he knew and was interested in. (This 
 was a very beautiful trait in his nature as 
 many besides myself can testify.) I found 
 him walking in the garden, and as we walked 
 back and forth I put the whole thing before 
 him. He asked a few questions and then ex- 
 claimed: "You buy it. It's the greatest op- 
 portunity in the world, and buy it yourself, 
 don't form a stock company. Then you can 
 say just what you please. See what a chance 
 you've got ! You can make it an organ of all 
 these things we've been working for for years, 
 and you can line up the Churches with us. 
 And then you can also preach Christian unity 
 all the time and the Churches must be brought 
 towards that more and more. I'm almost 
 tempted to buy it myself," and then with a 
 chuckle he squeezed my arm which he was 
 holding and said: "Wouldn't the good people 
 open their eyes to see a religious paper sud- 
 denly appear with 'Andrew Carnegie, Editor- 
 in-Chief on the front page? But you buy 
 the paper." 
 
 "All right, I will," I replied, "but I'll make 
 you consulting editor." 
 
Some Conversations 113 
 
 "Don't ask me to write the Theological 
 Articles," he said. 
 
 When it came to the financial problem he 
 at once smoothed out all difficulties — a service 
 that he had rendered to a good many men in 
 the same situation — and The Christian Work 
 came into my hands. Mr. Carnegie came to 
 look upon it, and The Independent, edited by 
 another of his younger friends. Dr. Hamilton 
 Holt, as the two chief organs of the new 
 international order and frequently used them 
 both, Mr. Holt and I regularly printing his 
 annual addresses before the New York Peace 
 Society and upon other occasions. 
 
 3|C 3|C 3|C 3|C 
 
 Speaking of Mr. Carnegie's interest in 
 persons, he had a very tender spot in his heart 
 for the companions of his early years, and for 
 those with whom he had cooperated during 
 the later years. I do not know how many 
 individuals were on his pension list sooner 
 or later. But it was not only that they were 
 on his pension list. He took a personal in- 
 terest in them and kept in touch with them. 
 One day I was walking around the Lake in 
 Central Park with him and suddenly he pulled 
 a letter out of his pocket. 
 
114 Recollection s of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 "Listen to this," he said. "This is a let- 
 ter from an old lady to whom I have been 
 sending a pension for years. She writes me 
 the most beautiful letters. Let me read you 
 a line or two." 
 
 He read a few lines telling in very simple 
 but touching language her appreciation of 
 what he had done for her. 
 
 "There now," he said, and there were tears 
 in his eyes, "I'd rather get that letter than 
 any engrossed resolution for any million 
 dollars I ever gave." 
 
 Several times I went to him to lay before 
 him cases where some one who had come to 
 grief financially needed assistance or to sug- 
 gest the pensioning of some woman whose 
 husband, a worker in some worthy cause, had 
 suddenly died, and always he was the most 
 sympathetic man imaginable. And it should 
 be remembered that he received several hun- 
 dred begging letters every week. 
 
 It is commonly thought that these letters 
 never got beyond Mr. Bertram's or Mr. 
 Poynton's eyes. But Mr. Carnegie saw t 
 great many more of them than people realized 
 and gave them his personal attention. He 
 was not like Charles Sumner. It will be re- 
 
Some Conversations 115 
 
 called that once some friend of Sumner's 
 wrote him from Boston — it was a woman, 
 one of the leaders of the Boston anti-slavery 
 group — asking him if he could not do some- 
 thing for a certain individual in Washington 
 at that time. The Senator wrote back, 
 that in the great pressure of public duty 
 he had no time to devote to individuals. 
 His friend wrote back the simple words, "It's 
 fortunate the Lord still has time to consider 
 individuals." 
 
X 
 
 AT THE BANQUET TABLE 
 
 WHILE Mr. Carnegie welcomed sug- 
 gestions as to wise ways of using 
 money — and I suppose he received sev- 
 eral thousand a year — he was a very shrewd 
 man and could easily detect anything in the 
 nature of what to-day we would call camou- 
 flage. He was always being invited to be one 
 of the speakers at a dinner or luncheon where 
 the real aim was to put some cause before 
 him and get him to subscribe the necessary 
 funds. Thus I remember so well one occa- 
 sion when he was persuaded to attend a lunch- 
 eon at the City Club where a certain cause 
 was to be considered. The man who had 
 been instrumental in arranging the luncheon 
 took the opportunity, when he made the open- 
 ing speech, to lay before the assembled com- 
 pany every need of the cause even to one more 
 stenographer in the ofiice. The whole ad- 
 dress was so self-evidently made for Mr. 
 ii6 
 
At the Banquet Table 117 
 
 Carnegie's benefit that most of those present 
 were really a little vexed over it. The speaker 
 had Mr. Carnegie in a trap and was not going 
 to let the opportunity go by. We all won- 
 dered how Mr. Carnegie would take it. As 
 usual he took it as a good joke. He saw 
 through the ruse at once and made a very tan- 
 talizing speech. He dwelt on the fact that the 
 story of the struggles of the organization had 
 greatly impressed him, that struggle was a 
 good thing for either a man or an organiza- 
 tion — it developed strength — and he hoped 
 they would go right on struggling and no one 
 could be more interested in the outcome than 
 he; that often he was appealed to for subscrip- 
 tions that would lift organizations beyond all 
 need of struggle, but he had not felt it wise 
 generally to do this (here our friend's coun- 
 tenance began to fall) , though he would, of 
 course, be glad always to do his part in any 
 worthy cause that interested him. 
 
 He really got a good deal of fun out of 
 this occasion and it was perfectly evident that 
 he saw through the whole scheme. He went 
 away, not the least bit angry, and the next 
 day sent for me to come to the house. He 
 said "That whole speech of 's was sO 
 
118 Eecollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 self-evident yesterday, wasn't It? He had 
 me where I couldn't escape, but he's a very 
 able man and really has done pioneer work 
 in the greatest cause in the world. I rather 
 think I'll make his Society an allowance of 
 a few thousand dollars a years. What do 
 you think of it?" I told him it would be a 
 good thing, and he did so. He had not taken 
 the slightest offence at the ill-timed appeal. 
 The work merited support and he contributed 
 to it. 
 
 It was very difficult for ardent supporters 
 of some cause to resist making an indirect 
 appeal when they happened to be speaking 
 at some banquet where he was also a speaker. 
 The banquet might have been given by a so- 
 ciety devoted to forestry, but if a temperance 
 worker, or a secretary of a society for chil- 
 dren's welfare, or the head of an organization 
 for the reform of prisons happened to be 
 present, he would often take the occasion to 
 relate the subject of -forestry to his hobby 
 and then let himself go upon it, putting all 
 the facts he could into a twenty minute ad- 
 dress. It highly amused Mr. Carnegie, who 
 immediately caught on to the whole thing, 
 and he would often comment on it after- 
 
At the Banquet Table 119 
 
 wards ; but he never referred to it In his own 
 speech so far as I can remember. 
 
 He rather enjoyed a banquet if a congenial 
 company was present and there was good 
 speaking. He could be the wittiest of them all 
 if he got into the mood. Who, of those pres- 
 ent, will ever forget his speech at the Annual 
 Dinner of the Men's Bible Class of the Fifth 
 Avenue Baptist Church, of which Mr. John 
 D. Rockefeller, Jr., was then President. He 
 presided this night. At Mr. Carnegie's side 
 sat an old-time friend, a clergyman who had 
 begun his career about the same time as Mr. 
 Carnegie, and had won much reputation as 
 well as success. Mr. Carnegie greatly ad- 
 mired him, and when his turn to speak came, 
 referred to his old friend in these words: 
 "We both followed the prophets, only I used 
 the simplified spelling." Of course everybody 
 roared and it was a long time before the 
 laughter subsided sufficiently for Mr. Carne- 
 gie to go on. Such spontaneous wit was al- 
 ways bubbling from him, and I could give 
 many instances. 
 
 He never liked smoking and was pretty 
 strict in his opinions about it, I think it was 
 a considerable effort for him to countenanCQ 
 
120 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 anyone smoking in the presence of others who 
 did not smoke. He was particularly averse to 
 men smoking at banquets where women were 
 present. At a dinner where he was presiding 
 — I think it was a banquet of the National 
 Civic Federation^ — some one near the speak- 
 ers' table said, "Mr. Carnegie, is it permis- 
 sible for gentlemen to smoke in the presence 
 of the ladies ?" Mr. Carnegie immediately re- 
 sponded, "Gentlemen don't want to smoke 
 where ladies are present" — that settled the 
 question. 
 
 He enjoyed a good story on himself even 
 when it was directed at some principle which 
 was deep-rooted in his nature. Mr. Carnegie 
 was a great believer in stimulating others to 
 give, and once said to me that he thought he 
 had raised as many million dollars for var- 
 ious institutions as he had himself given. 
 Consequently he was all the time saying to 
 various men or organizations asking for 
 money: "You raise half the sum you need 
 and I will give the other half." At a ban- 
 quet at the Lotus Club one night, at which 
 Mr. Carnegie was a guest of honor, one of 
 the speakers, an intimate friend of Mr. Car- 
 negie's, when he began to speak, went on 
 
At the Banquet Table 121 
 
 something after this fashion: "I had a dream 
 the other night and dreamed that Mr. Car- 
 negie suddenly presented himself before St. 
 Peter at the gates of Heaven and asked if he 
 might go in. St. Peter looked him over, asked 
 him who he was, consulted his records, and 
 after a while said the balance sheet was all 
 right, but suddenly demanded : 'Have you got 
 your crown?' 'No,' answered Mr. Carnegie, 
 'I supposed you furnished the crown.' 'Well,' 
 responded St. Peter, 'I'll furnish half if you'll 
 raise the other half.' " Nobody enjoyed the 
 story more than did Mr. Carnegie himself. 
 
 There was a group of men, with my father- 
 in-law. Professor Samuel T. Dutton, at the 
 head, who were intent on having a great in- 
 ternational building erected in New York. 
 Their thought was that it should be a struc- 
 ture Imposing enough to stand out among the 
 finer buildings of the city as a striking monu- 
 ment to the cause and should at the same 
 time house all the international groups — the 
 peace societies, the Japan-American Society, 
 the American-Scandinavian Foundation, the 
 Pan-American Society and all the rest. Pro- 
 fessor Dutton also wanted a Club handsomely 
 fitted up on one floor, with suites of rooms, 
 
122 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 where distinguished visitors from other 
 countries might be entertained. There was 
 also to be a large hall for all international 
 functions, and lectures, and the whole thing 
 crowned by a great library on international- 
 ism. He had broached the subject to Mr. 
 Carnegie from time to time, and at last in- 
 terested him in the idea. But Mr. Carnegie 
 was always cautious about committing him- 
 self to a project until he had thought it all 
 through very carefully and pretty thoroughly 
 visualized it in his own mind. Finally Pro- 
 fessor Button arranged a little luncheon of 
 about thirty mutual friends of Mr. Carnegie 
 and himself at the Yale Club to get exchanges 
 of opinion on the subject. Mr. Carnegie 
 was much interested in the discussion. I re- 
 call that Mr. Walter Page, who had not then 
 been appointed American Ambassador to the 
 Court of St. James, was present and made a 
 most felicitous address. Mr. Carnegie asked 
 many questions and finally made a short ad- 
 dress. It was a purely spontaneous address, 
 because before the luncheon no one had been 
 asked to speak. It was one of his best utter- 
 ances on the oneness of the human race. In 
 the course of It be told us how he had been 
 
At the Banquet Table 123 
 
 for years an admirer of Confucius, and the 
 more he read of his sayings the more im- 
 pressed he was with their similarity to the 
 teachings of Christ, Sometimes they used 
 almost the same language. It was a revela- 
 tion to him of the oneness of all great souls. 
 Two or three of the speakers had dwelt upon 
 the necessity of strengthening the unity of 
 the British and American peoples, and on this 
 theme he foreshadowed some of those utter- 
 ances that have been everywhere current since 
 the close of the war. I remember especially 
 his saying how, if all the English speaking 
 peoples of the world could stand together for 
 the newer ideals of justice, brotherhood and 
 good-will, they together could keep the peace 
 of the world. He thought that it would be 
 a splendid thing if our Congress would in- 
 vite a great delegation of the British Parlia- 
 ment to be its guests for a month or two, and 
 the British Parliament would invite a similar 
 delegation from America. It would work 
 wonders in the way of promoting such unity. 
 "They might even hold some joint ses- 
 sions," he said with a smile, "to discuss our 
 common problems and tasks. One of the 
 great causes of friction between nations," he 
 
124 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 continued, "is that people of one country do 
 not know the people of another and conse- 
 quently cannot understand them. Acquaintance 
 always precedes comprehension of other peo- 
 ples." I do not know what might have come 
 of this project for the international building 
 had the war not broken out. 
 
XI 
 
 FOREIGN MISSIONS AND FOREIGN 
 POLITICS 
 
 IT WAS at a meeting of the Armstrong 
 Association at the home of Mr. William 
 J. Schieffelln, its President, that Mr. 
 Carnegie made his testimony to foreign 
 missions. The Armstrong Association was 
 created to work for Hampton Institute. It 
 was Hampton's representative at New York. 
 For its annual meeting Mr. Schieffelln used 
 to invite the members to his beautiful home. 
 At this meeting reports of the work were 
 submitted by Dr. Frissell and some one es- 
 pecially interested in the advancement of the 
 colored people was invited to speak. On 
 this occasion Mr. Carnegie was the speaker 
 and dwelt upon the value of technical train- 
 ing for all boys — not colored boys alone. He 
 recalled the fact that many years ago his 
 grandfather had written an article in a British 
 paper called "Handication versus Headica- 
 125 
 
126 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 tion," and how in that article his grandfather 
 had thanked God that in his youth he had 
 learned how to make shoes. This was a favor- 
 ite theme of Mr. Carnegie's and I need 
 not quote here his well-known view on tech- 
 nical education. In some way he got upon 
 the theme that the one thing we ought to do 
 for China was to put a lot of Tuskegees and 
 Hamptons in her midst. 
 ^ Then he said, "Perhaps some of you have 
 sometime heard me speak somewhat critical- 
 ly of foreign missions. It is true I used to 
 have a prejudice against different sects going 
 to China or India and trying to make converts 
 to their particular creeds. But after I visited 
 those countries and saw what medical mis- 
 sions and our schools were doing, I changed 
 my mind and I came home thoroughly con- 
 vinced that we could make no greater gift to 
 these people." Then he added: "I some- 
 times wish we could put all our missionary 
 work under undenominational agencies, as the 
 Young Men's Christian Association does its 
 worL" 
 
 I afterwards recalled this testimony to 
 missions to Mr. Carnegie and asked him if he 
 had seen Mr. Taft's most eulogistic praise of 
 
Foreign Missions 127 
 
 the missionaries in the Philippines. He had 
 not seen it and asked me what he had said. 
 I sent him the passage in Mr. Taft's address, 
 made, if I remember rightly, before a meeting 
 of the Laymen's Missionary Association, 
 where he spoke of the remarkable things the 
 missionaries had done In the Far East and 
 the Philippines wherever he had been, and 
 how they had always been back of him in 
 any reform he had undertaken. "That's a 
 very fine tribute," was Mr. Carnegie's com- 
 ment. 
 
 I think I might depart from my subject for 
 a moment here to say that one evening in 
 October, 19 19, while at dinner at Lambeth 
 Palace, I related to the Archbishop of Can- 
 terbury the remarkable tribute our Ambas- 
 sador to Turkey, Mr. Morgenthau, who is, as 
 all know, of the Jewish faith, had paid to 
 the missionaries In Turkey. I told the Arch- 
 bishop that Mr. Morgenthau had been mak- 
 ing many addresses on behalf of Armenian 
 Relief, and that again and again, he had said 
 that the missionaries were the statesmen of 
 the Near East, that they had shown most 
 marked ability In administering relief and 
 had been of the greatest aid to the govern- 
 
128 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 ment in all its undertakings. The Arch- 
 bishop was greatly impressed by this and 
 asked me if I would not, when I returned to 
 America, have exact copies of Mr. Morgen- 
 thau's words made, as he could make good 
 use of them. 
 
 One of the most amusing incidents I ever 
 witnessed happened one afternoon in Mr. 
 Carnegie's library. It threw more light upon 
 international complications and the origin of 
 wars than whole volumes of political essays. 
 Mr. Carnegie was never tired of referring to 
 it as an illustration of the inevitable feature 
 of an unorganized world. We were sitting 
 before the fire talking when suddenly a young 
 Englishman was announced bearing a card 
 of Introduction from an eminent member of 
 the British government, a friend of Mr. Car- 
 negie's. Of course Mr. Carnegie welcomed 
 him heartily. Very soon he told us that he 
 had come on a confidential errand from Eng- 
 land to see prominent Americans and tell them 
 what was going on in Germany — this was 
 five years before the war, remember — how 
 Germany was building up a vast army and en- 
 larging her fleets and that they in England 
 had good reason to believe that it was all 
 
Foreign Missions 
 
 129 
 
 part of a well laid plan eventually to invadeX 
 England. They thought Americans ought to | 
 know this and be acting accordingly. Hardly i 
 had the Englishman left the room when a 
 well-known publisher, a friend of Mr. Carne- 
 gie, was ushered in. He knew nothing of the 
 Englishman's visit, although he must have 
 passed him in the hall. He had just arrived 
 in America, straight from Germany, and was 
 full of his European experiences. 
 
 After a moment he said, "I saw many of 
 your friends in Berlin, Mr. Carnegie, and 
 they are all worried over England's naval 
 activities. They thoroughly believe that Eng- 
 land is building this vast navy with ulterior 
 purposes against Germany. In fact one or 
 two of your friends asked me to bring this 
 matter to your attention." ^ 
 
 When the publisher had gone, Mr. Car- 
 negie turned to me and said, "There you have 
 it, there's War right in the making. How can 
 such a condition as that end in anything but 
 war? If you had a League of Nations now, 
 there would not be any need of either of these 
 nations increasing their armaments on this 
 vast scale, and if either one began its arma- 
 ment it would have to give its reasons before 
 
 
130 EecoUections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 the whole council of nations." (It is inter- 
 esting to note that that is just the provision 
 that is in the present League of Nations Cov- 
 enant. ) 
 
 Mr. Carnegie could sometimes be very 
 severe where carelessness was evinced on 
 someone's part; but the bigness of his nature 
 was displayed in the fact that if he called 
 someone severely to account for what he con- 
 sidered carelessness or imprudence, and after- 
 wards found himself in the wrong, he would 
 put himself out to say that he was in error 
 and do everything possible to make amends. 
 I had two or three experiences of this sort 
 which led to such a revelation of his magnan- 
 imity that they greatly increased my admira- 
 tion for him and deepened the friendship be- 
 tween us. 
 
 The first was when I came home from 
 Europe in August, 19 14. I had been caught 
 in Constance, which lies in the South Eastern 
 corner of Germany, when the war broke out. 
 I had about thirty Americans and Englishmen 
 with me who were the guests of Mr. Carne- 
 gie and the Church Peace Union (one of his 
 endowments) at a Conference of Churchmen. 
 I saw the war clouds gathering in England, 
 
Foreign Missions 131 
 
 France and Germany during the latter part of 
 July. Some of the Englishmen in our party 
 were members of Parliament, and not only 
 close to the British Government, but had in- 
 timate relation with influential Germans. I 
 knew from first-hand contact what efforts Sir 
 Edward Grey was making to check Austria 
 and Germany in their mad career. I left 
 Constance and got to London in time for the 
 great evening in Parliament when England 
 decided that it was her duty to enter the 
 conflict. I had the English White Book giv- 
 ing a full account of all the correspondence 
 between England and Germany and Austria 
 in my hand the moment it was issued. (I 
 brought the first copy of the White Book to 
 America and gave it to the New York Times, 
 which printed it in full in a special Supple- 
 ment of its Sunday issue.) I left England 
 on the "Laconia" shortly after the war be- 
 gan, and on the steamer I wrote a book called 
 "Through Europe on the Eve of War," in 
 which I told the truth. The book was off the 
 press ten days after I had been home and was 
 soon in the hands of thousands of readers. 
 Mr. Carnegie read it with great delight and, 
 as I was at the house almost daily for a while 
 
132 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 after he had returned from Europe, we often 
 spoke about it. Mr. Carnegie was trying 
 very hard to remain neutral, both because of 
 President Wilson's request, and because he 
 could not believe at first that the Kaiser and 
 other Germans in the Government whom he 
 knew intimately, could have deliberately and 
 cold-bloodedly perpetrated this diabolical 
 thing. Everything went well until someone — 
 he would never tell me who it was — took a 
 copy of the book and marked about twenty 
 passages where I had said that Germany was 
 deliberately guilty of the whole affair and 
 had long been making preparations for it. It 
 greatly disturbed him and he sent for me at 
 once. J. Allen Baker, M. P., was in New 
 York at the time and he asked him to come 
 also. We went through the book together 
 and Mr. Carnegie frankly told me that he 
 greatly regretted my having written those 
 things, that I had violated our neutrality, that 
 it would greatly hinder any future influence 
 of the Endowment of which I had charge 
 with Germany, that if Germany got hold of 
 the book (Germany did get the book and I 
 was most heartily damned both by Germans 
 in Germany and in the United States) it 
 
Foreign Missions 133 
 
 might even lead to international complica- 
 tions. 
 
 From his point of view Mr. Carnegie was 
 right and we discussed the matter for several 
 days. My only defense was that I had told 
 the truth, and that time would reveal it. But 
 I have no purpose in relating the incident 
 here except to say that several months after- 
 wards, when the whole truth had been re- 
 vealed, and the German methods in Europe 
 and the machinations in America so dis- 
 gusted Mr. Carnegre that he became the 
 most ardent pro-Ally in the country — this 
 was before we entered the war, and he was 
 in heartiest sympathy with that act — he took 
 occasion to say to me one day, "I want to tell 
 you how much I regret losing my temper over 
 your book. I see now that you were abso- 
 lutely in the right, and we would all of us 
 have done well if we had seen the truth right 
 at the beginning and told it plainly as you 
 did." 
 
 "Oh," I said, "I had forgotten all about 
 it long ago." 
 
 "But I had not," he said. 
 
XII 
 THE PHILANTHROPIST 
 
 MR. CARNEGIE was the most orig- 
 inal philanthropist the world has 
 ever known. He evinced more gen- 
 ius in distributing money than he did in earn- 
 ing it, although he accumulated one of the 
 largest fortunes known to history. One of 
 the shrewdest busiHess men that ever lived, 
 he was an idealist. I do not know any other 
 man who has combined in himself the man of 
 affairs and the man of great vision so per- 
 fectly as he. He naturally enjoyed making 
 money, but, as he often said, he enjoyed giv- 
 ing it away infinitely more. He once said to 
 me, "These latter years of my life when I 
 have been giving my money away have been 
 my happiest years." All who knew him inti- 
 mately will remember how engrossed and 
 happy he was in working out some scheme for 
 an endowment or a college or a library. He 
 was always talking with those whom he knew 
 134 
 
The Philanthropist 135 
 
 intimately and in whom he had confidence 
 about the right use of his money. Practically 
 all of his gifts, though, eventually were dedi- 
 cated to causes and movements in which he 
 was especially interested. Even his most in- 
 timate friends could seldom persuade him to 
 give large sums to anything in which he was 
 not personally interested or of which he had 
 not made a special study. I remember so well 
 how a certain group, made up of men very 
 close to him, tried to get him interested in giv- 
 ing a large sum toward the preservation of the 
 health of the nation, the extension of human 
 life, public hygiene and related movements. 
 He appreciated its value, and believed in it. 
 But it was never possible to get him inter- 
 ested in it. He would simply say: "It's a 
 great thing; but that's Rockefeller's sphere. 
 Get him to do it." (He did, however, give 
 quite large sums for Professor Koch's work 
 in Berlin and Madame Curie's in Paris.) 
 He simply had not grown up in it. It had not 
 become a part of him. 
 
 If one looks over the recently published 
 record of Mr. Carnegie's gifts, "A Manual 
 of the Public Benefactions of Andrew Car- 
 negie" (a remarkable volume containing the 
 
136 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 deed of gift written by Mr. Carnegie with 
 each gift, which, taken together, throw 
 more light on Mr. Carnegie's character and 
 genius than almost anything extant), he will 
 note that practically every endowment is his 
 means of perpetuating the ideals which were 
 peculiarly his own and to which he had de- 
 voted his life. Thus he himself once said: 
 "It is, no doubt, possible that my own per- 
 sonal experience may have led me to value a 
 free library beyond all other forms of benef- 
 icence." Music inspired and healed him. 
 He was always quoting the great sentence of 
 Confucius: "Music, sacred tongue of God, 
 I hear thee calling and I come." Consequently 
 he gave organs to the churches. He had al- 
 ways regretted the lack of educational op- 
 portunity when he was a boy and he was an 
 ardent believer in vocational training, hence 
 his vast gifts to technical schools and col- 
 leges. He honored the teacher and was al- 
 ways saying that he should be freed from 
 financial worries to do his best work; hence 
 the pension fund. He believed It took much 
 more heroism to save life than to take it, to 
 live nobly through trying crises than to die 
 fighting ; hence the Hero Fund. So it was with 
 
The Philanthropist 137 
 
 all his gifts. They were associated with his 
 boyhood, or given in gratitude for some great 
 blessing that had come to him, or were means 
 whereby to achieve the ideals for which he 
 himself was laboring. 
 
 Should I begin to record here the things 
 I have heard Mr. Carnegie say about his 
 various gifts I could fill volumes. There are 
 others, too, who were more intimately re- 
 lated to him in some of these special fields 
 of activity than was I. But he was in the 
 habit of talking very freely with his friends 
 and there are some things whichj although 
 they may have been recorded at some previous 
 time, deserve attention again if we are fully 
 to understand this really great man. 
 
 Perhaps the benefactions by which Mr. 
 Carnegie is most widely known to the public 
 at large are the public libraries. In three 
 thousand cities distributed all over the world 
 stand these buildings, of brick or marble or 
 other stone. In almost every instance they 
 are not only the public university of the 
 town, but they are also things of beauty, 
 (I have gone over the pictures of them with 
 Mr. Carnegie by the hour, and in almost 
 every instance the library is of real architec- 
 
138 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 tural beauty. Often it was the first real piece 
 of architecture to grace the town. The best 
 architects designed them, and Mr. Carnegie 
 himself had a great eye for architectural ef- 
 fect. He wanted the building to be educa- 
 tional as well as the books within it. He used 
 to get great enjoyment in turning over the 
 pictures of these libraries and had interesting 
 stories connected with many of them. He 
 once said, as we were looking at a picture, 
 which had just arrived, of a new library. — it 
 was about five o'clock — "Sometimes I like to 
 sit here in the quiet at about this time and 
 picture in my mind the thousands of school- 
 boys sitting in those reading rooms reading 
 the books I put there. And, you know, some- 
 times — isn't it strange ? — I see myself, a little 
 fellow, sitting there among them. The thing 
 I enjoy most about these gifts for libraries 
 is that they work day and night. There isn't 
 an hour that thousands all over the world are 
 not reading those books — and will always be 
 reading them. And sometimes when I feel 
 a little vain I say : 'And I am their teacher.' ") 
 I have heard Mr. Carnegie tell again and 
 again the story of what led him to think of 
 building libraries. To quote his words as he 
 
The Philanthropist 139 
 
 himself has written them elsewhere, he says : 
 "It is, no doubt, possible that my own per- 
 sonal experience may have led me to value a 
 free library beyond all other forms of benef- 
 icence. When I was a working boy in Pitts- 
 burgh, Colonel Anderson of Alleghany — a 
 name that I can never speak without feelings 
 of devotional gratitude — opened his little li- 
 brary of four hundred books to boys. Every 
 Saturday afternoon he was in attendance at 
 his house to exchange books. No one but he 
 who has felt it can ever know the intense 
 longing with which the arrival of Saturday 
 was awaited, that a new book might be had. 
 My brother and Mr. Phipps, who have been 
 my principal business partners through life, 
 shared with me Colonel Anderson's precious 
 generosity, and it was when revelling in the 
 treasures which he opened to us that I re- 
 solved, if ever wealth came to me that it 
 should be used to establish free libraries, that 
 other poor boys might receive opportunities 
 similar to those for which we were indebted 
 to that noble man." 
 
 Of course this ideal became immensely 
 larger and more inclusive. One evening he 
 told a little group of us the story of his boy- 
 
140 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 hood in Scotland and referred — as he often 
 did — to his father, who was a very remark- 
 able man. He said that several of the weavers 
 used to arrange to have one of their number 
 read aloud to them while the others worked, 
 they making up out of their earnings what 
 the reader might have been earning at his 
 loom. One of Mr. Carnegie's friends relates 
 hearing the same story and says: "I have 
 heard Mr. Carnegie mention as one of his 
 earliest recollections those craftsmen, his 
 father among the number, moving the first 
 free library with which he was acquainted 
 from one site to another in their aprons." 
 There is no doubt that Mr. Carnegie often 
 had in mind the picture of his father and 
 those Dunfermline weavers seeking enlarge- 
 ment of life through books when he was con- 
 sidering the request that had come for a new 
 library. 
 
 There was one other thought, however, 
 that was always in Mr. Carnegie's mind, and 
 I am not sure that it was not the chief one, 
 and that was to furnish opportunity to the 
 exceptional boy to work his way out into the 
 larger world. 
 
 He once said to me as we were walking in 
 
The Philanthropist 141 
 
 Central Park and he had been telling me 
 about a letter he had just received from some- 
 one, saying what a blessing one of his li- 
 braries had been to him : "When I was a boy 
 I had ambitions and I would have given any- 
 thing for certain books I could not get. I 
 wanted to get out of the village into the great 
 world of affairs, and books would have been 
 the doors. One thing I have always had in 
 mind in building libraries was that there might 
 be in every town an open door through which 
 the bright and ambitious boy could find his 
 way out into the world. If you will examine 
 the biographies of great men you will note 
 how often the impulse to go to college and 
 get out into the world came from a book. In 
 Scotland the minister and the school teacher 
 were always looking for the bright boy, espec- 
 ially in the smaller villages, and they would 
 encourage him to go to college and lend him 
 books. But he always needs books, and I 
 want to make it possible for him to have 
 them." 
 
 Another time he said: "I think I am doing 
 a whole lot for the morality of the country 
 through my libraries. You know that much 
 of the immorality and mischief is because of 
 
142 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 the long idle hours the boys and girls, espec- 
 ially in the rural regions, find hanging on their 
 hands. Now they have hundreds of good 
 books to read and pleasant reading rooms 
 where they can go after school or after work- 
 ing hours. One other thing I would like to 
 do if I had money enough, and that would 
 be to build a hall in every town where I have 
 put a library — a hall with a fine organ in it, 
 and endow it with a sum large enough to 
 provide a good concert two or three times a 
 week, and encourage every town to build up 
 a good choral society to use the hall. There 
 is nothing like music to elevate people." 
 
 Perhaps the most unique of all Mr. Car- 
 negie's endowments was that of the Hero 
 Fund. No one else in all the world would 
 have thought of it. It grew out of his in- 
 tense conviction that it took just as much 
 heroism to save life as it did to take it, 
 whereas the man who took it got most of 
 the recognition. How often I have heard him 
 say : "The more men you can kill the greater 
 hero you are;" and again, "Most of the 
 monuments in the world are to somebody who 
 has killed a lot of his fellowmen." 
 
 In his deed of trust accompanying the en- 
 
The Philanthr opist 143 
 
 dowment for the Hero Fund he said: "We 
 live in an heroic age. Not seldom we are 
 thrilled by deeds of heroism when men or 
 women are injured or lose their lives in at- 
 tempting to preserve or rescue their fellows; 
 such the heroes of civilization. The heroes 
 of barbarism maimed or killed theirs." 
 
 He was continually quoting the results of 
 the vote which had been taken in the French 
 schools as to who was France's great hero, 
 where Napoleon, "who devoted his life to 
 killing men, stood far down in the list, w'hile 
 Pasteur, who devoted his life to saving men, 
 headed the list." He believed this marked 
 the dawn of the new era, ushered in "the hero 
 of civilization," to use a word he was often 
 using. 
 
 The Fund was criticized quite widely and 
 the criticisms made Mr. Carnegie very im- 
 patient, because they so entirely missed the 
 point, as criticisms often do. The chief note 
 in these criticisms — generally kindly and in- 
 clined to poke fun at Mr. Carnegie — was that 
 he thought he could create a race of heroes 
 by money. This tune was played up far and 
 wide. As I said, it made him impatient be- 
 cause the whole point was missed. As a mat- 
 
144 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 ter of fact this motive played no part in the 
 gift. Mr. Carnegie was too wise a man to 
 be misled by any such vagary. The world 
 soon came around to see that he had evinced 
 the same wisdom here that he had in all his 
 other gifts. Three great things were in his 
 mind in creating this large endowment: first, 
 the freeing the dependents of the hero, who 
 often loses his life, from financial worry; sec- 
 ond, the recognition of the heroic act of peace 
 as it is recognized in war, and giving the hero 
 such opportunities for education as he might 
 desire ; thirdly, he thought that by placing this 
 emphasis upon the heroism of peace he 
 might turn men's minds to thinking upon the 
 fact that peace offered as much opportunity 
 for the play of the finest impulses as did war 
 and that the young men of the future who 
 wanted to do noble deeds would see that sav- 
 ing life gave scope for heroism even more 
 than taking it. 
 
 Concerning the first of his motives he said 
 in a letter to the Commission: "I do not ex- 
 pect to stimulate or create heroism by this 
 fund, knowing well that heroic action is im- 
 pulsive; but I do believe that if the hero is 
 injured in his bold attempt to save his fel- 
 
The Philanthropist 145 
 
 lows, he and those dependent upon him should 
 not suffer pecuniarily thereby." Again he 
 said: "I have all along felt that the heroes 
 and those dependent upon them should be 
 freed from pecuniary cares resulting from 
 their heroism." 
 
 As to the third motive, we used often to 
 talk, about it. He would say: "We have got 
 to lift war up onto the moral plane. There 
 is an instinct in man that seeks to wrestle with 
 some foe. The heroic impulse demands ex- 
 pression. We have got to show young men 
 that there are just as great battles to be fought 
 in peace-time as in war-time and just as much 
 heroism demanded, just as much opportunity 
 for the hero. That grand poem Gilder sent 
 me shows this. I always keep that and the 
 idea of the Hero Fund together in my mind. 
 No one could have summed it up better than 
 he did there. I thought by creating this fund 
 it would be one way of setting the world to 
 thinking upon the heroism of civilization, get- 
 ting Its mind off the association of valor and 
 heroism with war only." 
 
 He was very fond of keeping In touch with 
 his "heroes". Several times when I have 
 gone into his library before I could say any- 
 
146 Eecollectibns of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 thing he would insist on showing me the pic- 
 ture of his last hero, and the account in the 
 papers of what he had done: "Look at that 
 boy's face, now, isn't that a good face? Do 
 you know what we are going to do with him? 
 Put him in the Pittsburgh school (referring 
 to the Technical Institute). We'll make 
 something out of him. I'd like to see him. 
 I'm writing him to write me once in a while. 
 I like to keep track of them." 
 
 He was very proud of the medal. It is a 
 beautiful thing, with Mr. Carnegie's picture 
 on one side and on the reverse the map of 
 North America, with the Coats of Arms of 
 the United States, Canada, and New Found- 
 land, and a tablet in the middle for the hero's 
 name. Around it all is the inscription: 
 "Greater love hath no man than this, that a 
 man lay down his life for his friends." 
 
 I do not think any gift ever gave Mr. Car- 
 negie more joy than that of the Palace of 
 Peace at The Hague. He was so deeply im- 
 pressed with the work of the Hague Con- 
 ference of 1899, whose results he considered 
 the greatest step toward ending war that had 
 yet been taken, that he intimated his desire to 
 establish a great library of international law 
 
The Philanthropist 147 
 
 at The Hague for the use of the Permanent 
 Court of Arbitration. After considerable 
 correspondence and conversation with his 
 friends, Dr. Andrew D. White and Frederick 
 W. HoUs, they made the. suggestion that he 
 enlarge the scope of his gift and build a great 
 palace which should include not only the libra- 
 ry, but rooms for the Court, assembly halls 
 and international offices. Mr. Carnegie re- 
 plied that if the suggestion should come from 
 the Dutch government he would be glad to do 
 this. The Palace was completed in 19 13 and 
 he was present at its dedication. He was as 
 happy as a child as he roamed through its 
 chambers finished in rare woods and polished 
 marbles. A great crowd was present to take 
 part in the dedication exercises, and the rep- 
 resentative of the Dutch Government after- 
 wards decorated Mr. Carnegie with the 
 Grand Cross of the Order of Orange-Nassau. 
 On the following day there were further ex- 
 ercises when the British Minister to the 
 Netherlands unveiled a bust of King Edward, 
 presented by the Peace Society of London, 
 and Mr. Carnegie unveiled the bust of his 
 friend Sir William Randal Cremer. 
 
 I quote a few words from his memorable 
 
148 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 address because In them he came back again 
 to the dominant thought in all his thinking on 
 international problems, namely, that peace 
 could come only through the organization of 
 the world for law and order along the same 
 lines on which the community was organized 
 and the nation. This meant a League of 
 Nations: "My first duty today Is to unveil 
 the bust of one of the pioneers of the great- 
 est of all causes the abolition of war, the kill- 
 ing of man by man, the greatest of all crimes. 
 The hero we are about to honor by unveiling 
 his statue In this, the World's Temple of 
 Peace, as among the foremost of peacemak- 
 ers, was destined, as we have seen, to strange 
 contrasts from beginning to end. Nor arc 
 these contrasts apparently destined to end, 
 even with death, for his statue stands here 
 next to that of his late Majesty the King of 
 Great Britain, a fellow worker for interna- 
 tional peace. Both, monarch and subject, by 
 their labors endeavored to leave the world 
 better than they found It, and we believe they 
 succeeded In doing so, and advanced the great- 
 est of all causes, the brotherhood of man, 
 through International peace. At last, the 
 civilized world, after ages of sore trial, re- 
 
The Philanthropist 149 
 
 allzed that our greatest of all blessings Is 
 world peace. No ruler of civilized man, from 
 Emperor to Secretary of State, but recog- 
 nizes this. If It is forced upon them — so far 
 has mankind already advanced. Slowly has 
 the truth been borne In upon men that nations 
 were not intended to live or to labor sep- 
 arately, each for Itself, but by Interchange of 
 their respective products. I submit that the 
 only measure required today for the main- 
 tenance of world peace is an agreement be- 
 tween three or four of the leading civilized 
 Powers (and as many more as desire to join 
 — the more the better) pledged to cooperate 
 against disturbers of world peace, should such 
 arise, which would scarcely be possible, how- 
 ever, In face of the partnership agreement 
 suggested." 
 
 The great war came just a year afterwards. 
 A few shortsighted people poked fun at the 
 Peace Palace. One night when I went Into 
 the library he showed me a clipping from 
 some paper — I forget now what journal It 
 was — written in rather flippant tone asking, 
 "What shall we do with the Peace Pal- 
 ace?" 
 
 "I hope that man will live long enough to 
 
150 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 see a League of Nations sitting there with an 
 International Court," he said. 
 
 I wish Mr. Carnegie might have lived a 
 year longer, for as I write these words, July 
 I, 1920, a Commission appointed by the 
 League of Nations is sitting in one of the 
 rooms of the Peace Palace drawing up plans 
 for a Court of Arbitral Justice. 
 
 One day I showed him a headline "Grass 
 Growing High in the Deserted Grounds of 
 the Peace Palace." It stirred him for a min- 
 ute. "They'll all come there yet," he ex- 
 claimed as he turned to his desk. 
 
 "Have you got time to hear a little story?" 
 I asked. 
 
 "What is it?" he said. 
 
 "Once upon a time," I went on, "there was 
 a monastery in one of the hill towns of Italy, 
 belonging to a famous order, and connected 
 with it a Church, in which the red lantern 
 burned night and day before the altar. The 
 enemy came down from the North and sacked 
 the place, overturning the stones and driving 
 the monks from their habitation. But one 
 monk had managed to hide himself some- 
 where among the ruins and at night crawled 
 forth to see what had happened to the altar. 
 
The Philanthropist 151 
 
 To his joy he found the light which had been 
 burning for years had not been extinguished. 
 He filled it with oil. Every night he crept 
 put of his hiding place and filled the lamp. 
 After a time the enemy departed, the monks 
 came back to rebuild their home and temple. 
 When they came to rebuild the Church they 
 found the light was burning. It had been 
 burning all the days of catastrophe — waiting 
 for them. Around it they built the Church." 
 
 "It's a beautiful story," he said, "and I 
 see the point." 
 
 Of course he had much to say about the 
 Church organs. When he began giving them 
 to the Churches he not only received innumer- 
 able requests for organs — he received forty 
 thousand during the last twenty years of his 
 life — but he received scores of letters from 
 Churches from all parts of the world asking 
 for every conceivable thing. But he stuck 
 pretty closely to his organs so far as Churches 
 were concerned. He used to say that he could 
 "feel responsible for what came from the 
 organ : not for what came from the pulpit." 
 All together he gave away nearly eight thou- 
 sand organs. He was a very reverent man 
 and he thought reverence a mark of real 
 
152 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 character. He believed music encouraged it 
 and he took great pride in his eight thousand 
 organs. He gave them to the Churches "be- 
 cause of my own experience," to quote his 
 own words, "that the organ is one of the most 
 elevating of voices, often causing me to mur- 
 mur the words of Confucius as I listen to its 
 peals : 'Music, sacred tongue of God, I hear 
 thee calling and I come,' and also because of 
 the consolation I experience under the influ- 
 ence of a maxim of the same seer : 'AH wor- 
 ship being intended for the true God, howso- 
 ever addressed, reaches and is accepted by 
 Him.' " 
 
 Enough about benevolences. The great 
 endowments are known to all the world and 
 their history has been written. I shall have 
 something to say about The Church Peace 
 Union later, because a new phase of Mr. Car- 
 negie's character manifested itself then, in this 
 last great gift of his life, namely, his interest 
 in the Churches. Just a closing word here. 
 One day he said in a joking way, "Don't you 
 think I've shown wisdom in all my gifts?" 
 
 "In all but one," I answered. 
 
 "What do you mean," he said, turning 
 upon me. 
 
The Philanthropist 153 
 
 "I mean," I answered, "that in all but one 
 of your gifts I think you have been the wisest 
 man in the world, but I think the $300,000 
 you gave the Simplified Spelling Board was 
 thrown away. Ten years from now the 
 whole movement will be as dead as Volapuk 
 or Esperanto; as dead as all artificial lang- 
 uages. Languages grow ; they cannot be made 
 to order. Furthermore, I think the simplified 
 spelling perfectly hideous — but you know my 
 views." 
 
 "I suppose you think you could have used 
 that $300,000 to much better advantage?" 
 
 "Yes, I do," I answered. 
 
 "Well, you can't have it," was all he said. 
 
XIII 
 THE CHURCH PEACE UNION 
 
 I SHALL have something to say of Mr. 
 Carnegie's attitude toward the churches 
 in the concluding chapter, but the last 
 great gift of his life, as well as the many 
 things he said in connection with it, make 
 perfectly evident the high esteem in which 
 he held the churches and their leaders, as 
 well as the strong conviction he had of their 
 power to accomplish great things. As a mat- 
 ter of fact, I suppose he said to me a score 
 of times that it was to the churches we must 
 look for the bringing in of the reign of 
 peace: "Who but the followers of the 
 Prince of Peace should establish his King- 
 dom?" he said to the Trustees of the Church 
 Peace Union, on the day he had them at his 
 home to receive the trust fund. 
 
 For two or three years previous to 1910, 
 154 
 
The Church Peace Union 155 
 
 Mr. Carnegie had been gradually coming to 
 feel that he would like to do something on a 
 big scale for international peace. The great 
 question was how to do it in the wisest way. 
 During this period he frequently talked about 
 it with his intimate friends — President Nicho- 
 las Murray Butler, Professor Samuel T. But- 
 ton, and Dr. Hamilton Holt. He also spoke 
 about it to Mr. Edwin D. Mead, of Boston, 
 once or twice. Later, when he had made up 
 his mind to create an endowment, he con- 
 sulted Senator Root. With me he talked 
 about it frequently. The result of it all was 
 that just before he started for Skibo Castle 
 in the spring of 19 lo he intimated to Pro- 
 fessor Dutton, Mr. Holt and myself, when 
 we were with him one afternoon, in his 
 library, that he intended doing something 
 soon. In the fall of 19 10, after his return 
 from Scotland, he told me that he was going 
 to create a ten million dollar endowment for 
 International Peace. He afterward told Mr. 
 Holt that the exact form the gift should take 
 came to him suddenly, like a revelation, on 
 the golf links at Skibo. 
 
 That was the origin of the Endowment. I 
 think that it was one afternoon in 19 12 that 
 
156 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 I said to Mr. Carnegie: "It is too bad that 
 the churches cannot have some funds for 
 peace work. They could really do more than 
 any other institutions in existence." 
 
 He immediately answered: "I agree with 
 you. Of all other organizations they should 
 be the most interested in this cause. Then, 
 too, they have the people. They have audi- 
 ences already made, and that is a great thing. 
 They are there every Sunday. Why don't 
 you get the Endowment to make a handsome 
 annual appropriation to the churches?" 
 
 I told him that the Federal Council of 
 the Churches had set up a strong Commission 
 on Peace and Arbitration, and that they had 
 made me Secretary of the Commission; that 
 we had about sixty of the most prominent 
 men of all denominations upon it, and that 
 we were getting a very hearty response from 
 the churches ; that it only needed funds to do 
 a very extensive work; that we had ap- 
 proached the Endowment and it had not seen 
 its way to help us. 
 
 He was very much interested and asked 
 me to tell him in detail what the Commission 
 was doing. I did so, and he said: "I have 
 been feeling more and more that it is to the 
 
The Church Peace Union 157 
 
 churches we must look for the bringing of 
 peace." A remark he more and more fre- 
 quently made as the days went on. 
 
 This conversation led to many others about 
 the mobilizing of the forces of the world for 
 peace. We talked about a scheme for en- 
 dowing the colleges of the United States, 
 Great Britain, Germany arid France — estab- 
 lishing chairs of the history of international 
 relationships, the growth of arbitration, and 
 kindred topics. We talked of ways and means 
 whereby -the children in the schools could be 
 reached. Mostly we talked of the churches. 
 Meantime, he had met in Berlin, J. Allen 
 Baker, M. P., and Bishop Boyd Carpenter, 
 of London, and they had told him of the re- 
 markable work the churches of Europe were 
 doing in creating a new international senti- 
 ment and in arranging friendly visits of pas- 
 tors from one country to another. Mr. Car- 
 negie was quite impressed by the story and 
 Mr. Baker then laid before him the plans 
 they had for future work in Europe. Mr. 
 Carnegie said (I quote Mr. Baker) : "It's 
 just what they are planning in America. If 
 the churches of the United States and Europe 
 could get together on a big task like this, I 
 
158 Kecollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 believe I would be ready to give them ten 
 million dollars." 
 
 The very next day after Mr. Carnegie's 
 arrival- in America, he asked me to sit down 
 and write out in the most comprehensive man- 
 ner, point by point, the ways in which a group 
 of trustees, chosen from the churches, could 
 use the income of an endowment for inter- 
 national peace. I gladly did this and carried 
 it up to the house the next afternoon and read 
 it to him. He asked me to leave it, but be- 
 fore I went away he picked it up and read it 
 again, quietly, to himself. Suddenly he said: 
 "Do you suppose you could get twenty-five of 
 the biggest men of all the denominations — Ro- 
 man Catholic as well as Protestant — to serve 
 as trustees if I would give them a large sum 
 of money?" 
 
 "I am sure I could," I answered, "and I 
 think we could get the best." 
 
 I then offered to write for him a list of 
 trustees I thought we could get, and he asked 
 me to write it then and there, which I did. As 
 I was writing, he interrupted to learn if I 
 had Bishop Greer's name on the list. I told 
 him I had, and he said at once : "He ought 
 to be made President." (Mr. Carnegie had 
 
The Church Peace Union 159 
 
 a great admiration for Bishop Greer, who 
 had several times expressed himself very 
 plainly to the effect that war was the nega- 
 tion of Christianity). When the list was fin- 
 ished, Mr. Carnegie examined it very care- 
 fully and then suggested four additional 
 names of men he wished added, for reasons 
 of personal friendship. Two of these names 
 were eventually dropped and two leaders of 
 the Jewish faith substituted to make the list 
 as complete as possible. When we had fin- 
 ished the list, Mr. Carnegie turned to me 
 and said: "I have about made up my mind; 
 but I would like to consult Mr. Root first; 
 meantime, you tell Bishop Greer and see how 
 Re feels about the whole thing." 
 
 It was about two weeks after this that J. 
 Allen Baker arrived from London. I had 
 seen Bishop Greer and had found him in- 
 tensely interested, and incidentally had talked 
 the matter over with two or three other lead- 
 ers in the churches. Mr. Carnegie had, in 
 the meantime, I think, discussed it with his 
 own pastor. Dr. William P. Merrill, in whom 
 he had great confidence. I went up to the 
 house with Allen Baker soon after his ar- 
 rival and he and Mr. Carnegie and I went 
 
160 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 together to Mr. Root's home, where we 
 talked on the subject for an hour. The result 
 was that that evening Mr. Carnegie and I 
 made a final revision of the list of trustees, 
 bringing the number up to twenty-nine, and he 
 commissioned me to approach the men at once 
 and ask them if they would serve as trustees 
 for the proposed endowment. It was finally 
 decided to start with two million dollars, 
 which sum might be increased as the work 
 expanded. 
 
 It was an interesting task. I saw every- 
 one personally, I think, except Rabbi Hirsch, 
 of Chicago, and Archbishop Glennon, of St. 
 Louis. I had an interesting visit with Car- 
 dinal Gibbons, at Baltimore. He was very 
 much interested in the whole scheme. It was 
 a new idea to him. He accepted at once, and 
 then we had a nice chat together. He was 
 delightful and recurred several times to Mr. 
 Carnegie giving this great sum for the use 
 of the churches. As I came away, he said: 
 "Tell Mr. Carnegie I am a great walker, and 
 I would like to have a walking match with 
 him some day." (They were both getting 
 near the eighties). Everybody on the list 
 accepted the trusteeship, and February tenth 
 
The Church Peace Union 161 
 
 (this was in 19 14) was set for the incep- 
 tion of The Church Peace Union. 
 
 Mr. Carnegie was very happy during the 
 month that intervened between his decision 
 and the making of the gift. I think he was 
 as much pleased over the success in securing 
 leaders from the different branches of the 
 Church to serve on the same board as he was 
 over the prospect of the service it might ren- 
 der to the cause of universal peace. He would 
 ask me two or three times a week if there was 
 any other board working solely among the 
 churches on which Catholics, Protestants and 
 Jews were serving together. I saw him very 
 often during these days and he wanted to talk 
 all the time about what task the churches 
 should immediately undertake. He was not 
 going to make any suggestions to the trustees ; 
 the money would be theirs and they were to 
 do with it what they pleased ; but he thought 
 it would be a great thing if, as the first act, 
 they should bring all the churches of Europe 
 and America together in some European city 
 and link up the European churches with the 
 Movement. It would arrest the attention of 
 the whole world and also be a great object 
 lesson in Christian Unity. 
 
162 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 On February tenth, 1914, Mr. Carnegie 
 invited the trustees to a luncheon at his home 
 — and all but three were there. Dr. Peter 
 Ainslie came straight from the tour of Eng- 
 land in behalf of Christian Unity, the steamer 
 having docked just at lunch time. Mr. Car- 
 negie thought this was a good augury. After 
 luncheon, the whole group retired to the art 
 gallery in the East end of the house, and Mr. 
 Carnegie, having first seated Bishop Greer 
 on one side of him and his pastor. Dr. Mer- 
 rill, on the other, formally announced his pur- 
 pose of presenting them with funds for the 
 endowment the moment they should become 
 organized. These were his opening words: 
 
 "Gentlemen of Many Religious Bodies, All 
 Irrevocably Opposed to War and Devoted 
 Advocates of Peace: We all feel, I believe, 
 that the killing of man by man in battle is 
 barbaric and negatives our claim to civiliza- 
 tion. This crime we wish to banish from the 
 earth; some progress has already been made 
 in this direction, but recently men have shed 
 more of their fellows' blood than for years 
 previous. We need to be aroused to our 
 duties and banish war. 
 
 "Certain that the strongest appeal that can 
 
The Church Peace Union 163 
 
 be made is to members of the religious bodies, 
 to you I hereby appeal, hoping that you will 
 feel it to be not only your duty but your 
 pleasure to undertake the administration of 
 two miUions of dollars five per cent bonds, 
 the income to be used as in your judgment will 
 most successfully appeal to the people in the 
 cause of peace thru arbitration of interna- 
 tional disputes ; that as man in civilized lands 
 is compelled by law to submit personal dis- 
 putes to courts of law, so nations shall appeal 
 to the Court at The Hague or to such tri- 
 bunals as may be mutually agreed upon, and 
 bow to the verdict rendered, thus insuring the 
 reign of national peace through international 
 law. When that day arrives, either thru such 
 courts of law or thru other channels, this trust 
 shall have fulfilled its mission." 
 
 After the trustees had expressed their grati- 
 tude for this remarkable gift, suitable reso- 
 lutions were prepared expressing appreciation 
 of Mr. Carnegie's high confidence in the 
 churches as the chief instruments in banishing 
 war from the earth, and of his confidence in 
 them as stewards of this large sum. They 
 then proceeded to organize themselves into 
 the Church Peace Union. Bishop David H. 
 
164 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 Greer was elected President; Dr. William 
 Pierson Merrill Vice-President; Dr. Charles 
 E. Jefferson Chairman of the Executive Com- 
 mittee ; Mr. George A. Plimpton Treasurer, 
 and I was made Secretary. Mr. Carnegie was 
 as happy as a child the whole afternoon. In 
 fact, I do not think he ever took more de- 
 light in any of his gifts than in this child of 
 his later years. After all the others had gone, 
 he and I went into the library together and 
 he put his arm about my neck and said: 
 "Hasn't it been a great day! And what a 
 splendid lot of men we've got there! They 
 can do anything." Then, as he sank down 
 upon the sofa, before the fire — a little tired — 
 he said: "What a wonderful thing it would 
 be if we could bring all the churches of the 
 world together this year !" And this was just 
 what we did. 
 
 Wc opened an ofHcc the next day and be- 
 gan preparations for the Conference at Con- 
 stance, which was held during the first week 
 of the following August and out of whch 
 grew the World Alliance for International 
 Friendship through the Churches. It met 
 on the same day that the world war broke 
 out. On that day the churches started their 
 
The Church Peace Union 165 
 
 campaign for justice, brotherhood and eter- 
 nal peace; the war lords started their cam- 
 paign for might, tyranny and eternal strife. 
 For a while it looked as though the war lords 
 had won the day. Now it looks as though the 
 churches might win. I am writing these very 
 words In a room in Geneva, where sixty men 
 representing every great Communion In the 
 world, except the Roman Catholic, are sitting 
 with me, counselling how the united churches 
 of the world can establish brotherhood, jus- 
 tice and goodwill. Two weeks from this writ- 
 ing the sixty representatives of the Churches 
 that were at Constance will be sitting together 
 at Interlaken, just over the mountains. But 
 the age-long conflict is between Christ and 
 Caesar and It is for the united churches of 
 the world to see that Christ, not Caesar, 
 triumphs. 
 
XIV 
 
 MR. CARNEGIE AS A RELIGIOUS 
 
 MAN 
 
 SO much has been written in the papers 
 about Mr. Carnegie's views on religion, 
 and so much of it is mere rumor and 
 gossip, and so many authors contradict what 
 others have written, that it is really a pleas- 
 ure to be able to say something on the sub- 
 ject from first hand knowledge. 
 
 I had a great many talks with Mr. Car- 
 negie on religion and especially on the 
 Churches, the Bible and the doctrines. Let 
 me say, right at the beginning, that he was 
 a very reverent man before the great and 
 eternal things. There were some things 
 which some people approach with reverence 
 that to him seemed hardly worthy of it. The 
 imprecatory Psalms made him mad, to speak 
 very plainly, and he did not have much rev- 
 erence for some Old Testament warriors who 
 are held up as heroes before the children 
 i66 
 
A Religious Man 167 
 
 in the Sunday Schools. But before the real 
 things of religion he was as reverent as a 
 Catholic before the altar, and as for Chris- 
 tianity, was he not preaching its precepts in 
 every speech he made? Few men have said 
 more emphatically than he was continually 
 saying that the only hope of the world was 
 in the individual, society and the nations liv- 
 ing by the teachings of Christ. 
 
 He held very decided views about the Old 
 Testament, and once or twice, under provo- 
 cation, expressed himself very bluntly. 
 Dr. George Haven Putnam, in the second 
 volume of his reminiscences, relates an inci- 
 dent that occurred on shipboard, which got 
 into the press and went around the world. 
 Of course it was misunderstood, and many 
 of the religious papers wrote editorials which 
 were stronger than the original statement. 
 This was a good many years ago and would 
 not arouse so much attention to-day as it did 
 then. In fact, the point of view that Mr. 
 Carnegie took toward the Bible has become 
 very common in our day among the most 
 eminent scholars in the churches. He did 
 feel very strongly on the matter of teaching 
 children certain portions of the Old Testa- 
 
168 Eecollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 ment, which, to his mind, contradicted not 
 only the finest human instincts but the whole 
 spirit of Christ's teaching. 
 
 We were once walking together when he 
 suddenly referred to a sensational heading 
 in that day's paper about some preacher's ut- 
 terances concerning the incident of Jonah: 
 "What in the world has the question as to 
 whether that book is fact or story got to do 
 with the Christian religion?" he exclaimed. 
 "It is this sort of thing that makes sensible 
 people disgusted with the Churches. The first 
 Christians followed Christ and that was all 
 that was ever asked of them. Now we demand 
 that they believe a lot of incidents said to 
 have happened hundreds of years before 
 Christ was born and which have absolutely 
 no relation to him whatever, except that they 
 happened to get bound up in a collection of 
 books with the story of his life. It's just ex- 
 actly as if I were told that I could not be a 
 believer in Abraham Lincoln unless I be- 
 lieved some miraculous stories about the early 
 settlers of America because the stories hap- 
 pened to be on the same library shelf. The 
 Bible is a wonderful literature of a people 
 w'ho had a genius for religion, but I some- 
 
A Religious Man 169 
 
 times think it has been a misfortune that the 
 life of Christ got bound up with the Old 
 Testament. They don't always harmonize." 
 What disturbed Mr. Carnegie most of all 
 was hinted at in that last sentence. He 
 thought it was a great mistake to teach cer- 
 tain of the narratives of the Old Testament 
 to children for the sake of the ethical lessons. 
 The ethics of parts of the historical books 
 not only did not harmonize with the teach- 
 ings of the New Testament but they were con- 
 trary to them. He used to grow quite indig- 
 nant on this point and I think the fact 
 that the Sunday Schools were teaching these 
 portions of the Bible somewhat colored his 
 views of the entire Old Testament and per- 
 haps made him unappreciative of its really 
 spiritual revelations. Once he exclaimed to 
 me, as we were discussing this whole ques- 
 tion of the worth of the Old Testament (we 
 were walking in Central Park) : "I picked 
 up the Bible just the other day and was read- 
 ing the story of the times of Samuel. One 
 king after another comes along and they are 
 all engaged from year to year in killing — it 
 is really slaughter. All sorts of ghastly in- 
 cidents are related, and some passages are 
 
170 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 simply revolting to a mind accustomed to 
 feel toward humanity as Christ felt, and the 
 thing is that God is pictured as directing and 
 helping it all. It is God who leads in the 
 slaughter and He even inspires His children 
 to the most unmerciful acts. Now, if you 
 want to teach these things to students in the 
 universities as you familiarize them with the 
 legends and myths and wars of ancient Rome 
 and Greece, all right, but do not teach them 
 to boys and girls as heroic deeds, to be ad- 
 mired and copied, and, for heaven's sake, do 
 not tell them that the God pictured in some 
 parts of these stories is the God Jesus Christ 
 shows us in the Sermon on the Mount." 
 
 I think I have recorded rather accurately 
 what Mr. Carnegie said, for I was greatly 
 Interested in getting his point of view, and 
 he said these things very emphatically. Pro- 
 fessor Samuel T. Button, who used often to 
 drop into the house at Ninety-first Street 
 Sunday afternoons, for a chat with him, told 
 me that he once said practically these same 
 words to him. When I told Mr. Carnegie 
 that he would find the view which he was ex- 
 pressing even more forcibly put than he was 
 putting it, in the pulpits of many churches, he 
 
A Religious Man 171 
 
 said: "I know that; but still they go on teach- 
 ing it just the same, and I have heard pas- 
 sages from the Old Testament read in church 
 which made me blush, so contrary were they 
 to the spirit of Christianity. I think Gen- 
 eral Armstrong and David Livingstone much 
 better Christians than Joshua or Gideon, and 
 I would teach their lives in the Sunday 
 Schools. And there ought to be an edition 
 of the Old Testament prepared for use in 
 church and home, which would leave out 
 those parts that are not Christian." As a 
 matter of fact, Mr. Carnegie had a great ad- 
 miration for those portions of the Bible 
 which deal with pure religion, and was con- 
 tinually quoting it, and had carved upon the 
 walls of his library, over the fireplace, one 
 of its great words: "Let there be light 1" 
 
 It is a great mistake to say, as I have heard 
 some say, that Mr. Carnegie was never in- 
 terested in the churches. He would not have 
 given the thousands of organs to churches had 
 he not been interested in them, neither would 
 he have entrusted a great endowment to The 
 Church Peace Union had he not had con- 
 fidence in them. As a matter of fact, he was 
 very greatly interested — and more and more 
 
172 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 so as he grew older — and was continually 
 talking about them. He also had a good 
 many intimate friends among the clergy, and 
 liked to have them come to his home. He 
 was continually telling me how much he ad- 
 mired Bishop Greer and his own pastor, Dr. 
 William Pierson Merrill, and occasionally he 
 would tell me about a sermon Dr. Merrill had 
 preached which had greatly interested him 
 and would send it to me, asking me to print 
 it. 
 
 Two things, more than anything else, had 
 operated to keep him from close relations to 
 the Church and more active participation in 
 church affairs. The first was the revolt 
 against certain doctrines with which he had 
 come in contact as a youth. Here his father 
 had preceded him, for he told me several 
 times about his father's rebellion against the 
 doctrine of eternal punishment and others 
 which he considered inhuman. "Human" was 
 Mr. Carnegie's own test of doctrine, and he 
 was frequently using the word "inhuman" or 
 "unhuman" to describe some of the doctrines. 
 "There are some things being preached about 
 God which, if true about any man, would 
 make him a harsh and cruel despot," he would 
 
A Religious Man 173 
 
 say. Or, "The Theologians attribute attri- 
 butes to God they would be ashamed to pos- 
 sess themselves. They say Christ is the reve- 
 lation of God, or that he is God himself, and 
 then they preach a God that absolutely con- 
 tradicts Christ and who does just the things 
 Christ taught men not to do." As to the 
 doctrine of eternal punishment, he revolted 
 against it with all his generous instincts. 
 "Anyone who has been a father cannot be- 
 lieve in it," he once said. As to some of the 
 other doctrines, I do not imagine he ever 
 gave much thought to them. He was of a 
 very childlike nature and things which did 
 not come to him intuitively he was rather apt 
 to let alone. The doctrine of the Trinity, for 
 instance, did not relate itself directly to his 
 life and so he simply gave it no thought. 
 He once said to me: "I have many Trini- 
 tarians and many Unitarians among my 
 friends and I can't see any difference in their 
 character or in their conduct." 
 
 He had a very firm belief in God and in 
 His goodness. Indeed, his chief quarrel with 
 orthodoxy, as I have said, was in its presen- 
 tation of a God who was not good. He felt 
 just as Whittier felt 
 
174 Rec ollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 "For nothing can be good in Him 
 Which evil is in me." 
 
 He often referred to his trust in a Power at 
 the centre of things, making for righteous- 
 ness, and this Power was personal. Even 
 the war could not shake his faith in the 
 gradual progress of humanity toward good- 
 ness, although his faith was a bit shaken for 
 the moment, as was the faith of all thought- 
 ful men. He very firmly believed that the 
 world was in the hands of God, and moving 
 toward a destiny worthy of its Maker and 
 Ruler. He believed that God was present 
 in the consciousness of His children, and 
 spoke to them in a voice they could not fail 
 to hear and understand. I think that per- 
 haps one reason he did not value the Bible so 
 much as some of us do, was because his sense 
 of the immanence of God was strong. One 
 Sunday afternoon when the Rev. R. J. Camp- 
 bell, then pastor of the City Temple, London, 
 was in New York, I took him to call on Mr. 
 Carnegie. The talk turned upon religion. 
 Just as we were coming away, and as we were 
 all standing about the tea table, Mr. Car- 
 negie suddenly put his hand upon his heart, 
 and in most emphatic tone, exclaimed: "I 
 
A Religious Man 175 
 
 have something here, within me, which tells 
 me without any uncertainty what Is right and 
 wrong. I call it God." "So do I," said Mr. 
 Campbell. Mr. Carnegie took his hand and 
 said: "We are not far apart." Mr. Car- 
 negie had a good deal of the mystic in him. 
 He had the Celtic temperament and felt re- 
 ligious things. His approach was by the way 
 of intuition oftener than by reason. He was 
 like a child who knows and loves but never 
 reasons about it. Anyone who ever heard 
 him repeat certain poems that he loved — and 
 he loved the mystical ones — will recall the 
 rapt expression that came over his face, the 
 tears that welled up in his eyes. 
 
 The other thing which had kept him for 
 many years somewhat aloof from the churches 
 was sectarianism. As everybody knows, he 
 felt very strongly here, and sometimes ex- 
 pressed himself in what seemed to some 
 harsh language. He believed that the par- 
 ticular articles of faith and order which kept 
 men apart counted for practically nothing In 
 the religious life and were too Insignificant 
 to be retained as articles of separation in what 
 should be the one Church. I think that he 
 eyed a man who could believe that a particu- 
 
176 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 lar mode of baptism was necessary for full 
 participation in Christ's Church, as a sort of 
 strange, inexplicable being. He simply could 
 not understand a mind that worked that way. 
 The mode of reasoning that led to such a con- 
 clusion was utterly incomprehensible to him. 
 The same thing was true about the other doc- 
 trines that separated the churches. He could 
 understand one man wanting bishops in a 
 Church and another wanting the simplest 
 form of Congregational polity, just as he 
 could understand one man wanting a House of 
 Lords and another wanting extreme democ- 
 racy in the political realm, but he could not 
 understand how the people who wanted the 
 bishops could consider themselves the Church 
 In any sense that the Congregationallsts were 
 not, or how they could refuse to worship or 
 commune with them, or refuse to recognize 
 their ministers as having been truly ordained, 
 or refuse to participate In Christian worship 
 with them. I do not think I overstate the 
 matter when I say that sectarianism was to 
 him both silliness and sin. He felt so strongly 
 about it that he would do nothing for an in- 
 stitution where he thought his act or gift 
 would perpetuate denominationalism. He 
 
A Religious Man 177 
 
 would not give money to a college where 
 there was a denominational test of any kind. 
 He felt so strongly on this that sometimes it 
 was difficult to convince him that denomina- 
 tional colleges seldom or never put any credal 
 tests to the students and that the sense in 
 which they were denominational was that the 
 denomination had established them, was sup- 
 porting them, and naturally was governing 
 them and controlling them by boards chosen 
 from its own denomination. I remember 
 how, three or four times, I tried to empha- 
 size the fact that when some denomination 
 years ago planted a college in the heart of 
 some frontier state, they did it not with any 
 idea of establishing Methodism, Congrega- 
 tionalism, or Presbyterlanism there, but be- 
 cause there was no educational opportunity of 
 any kind in that territory and they wanted 
 to give such opportunity to the boys and 
 girls who lived there. I think he eventually 
 came to feel that this was true in many cases, 
 but he had seen so much of denominational 
 rivalry and hated It so vigorously that it was 
 difficult to make him believe that the desire 
 to propagate the denomination was not a 
 strong motive. There Is no denying the fact 
 
178 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 that the churches did sometimes give him rea- 
 son to suspect them in this regard. Once he 
 told me that a representative of a certain 
 denomination had asked him for a contribu- 
 tion toward their foreign missionary work. 
 Then he added, with a real burst of enthusi- 
 asm: "If the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, 
 Baptists, Methodists and all the rest of the 
 denominations would form a joint board and 
 put all their work in foreign lands under its 
 control, I believe I'd give them ten million 
 dollars." I think the sudden burst of en- 
 thusiasm came more from the picture of 
 union which he saw in operation than from 
 the good which might be done in India or 
 China, but I really believe he would have 
 done it. It was the fact that all the denom- 
 inations agreed to work together in The 
 Church Peace Union that made him enthusi- 
 astic over it. He was always greatly inter- 
 ested in the signs of increasing unity and fol- 
 lowed them with some care. He used to tell 
 his friends about the church at Briarcliff 
 Manor, in which one of his friends was in- 
 terested, where members of several denomina- 
 tions came together in one church, and, if 
 my memory does not fail me, he wrote an 
 
A Religious Man 179 
 
 article about it in one of the magazines. One 
 reason he became more and more interested 
 in the Church as he grew older was because 
 of the co-operative spirit he saw growing 
 among the denominations. 
 
 Mr. Carnegie frequently talked on im- 
 mortality. He never, to be sure, made any 
 dogmatic statements about It, one way or an- 
 other, so far as I know. But he felt It, as 
 he felt the presence of the Eternal Goodness. 
 When he occasionally was talking upon re- 
 ligious themes he would talk of them from 
 the point of view of one who believed In the 
 survival of the soul after death. The doc- 
 trine of eternal punishment was to him so re- 
 pugnant that he could not refer to it calmly. 
 He believed It was a travesty upon God. He 
 seemed to feel that death was a step Into not 
 only another world, but a better one. Some 
 of us recall so well how, when he began his 
 great address that night In the chapel of 
 Tuskegee Institute, where we were cele- 
 brating the twenty-fifth anniversary of the 
 institution — "With what pride and gratitude 
 would those great men who put their lives 
 into this institution look upon this scene could 
 they see us to-night"= — ^he suddenly stopped, 
 
180' Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 pushed his glasses up on his brow and in a 
 great hush said: "And who knows but they 
 may be looking down upon us now 1" It made 
 a very great impression as I recall it after the 
 lapse of ten or twelve years. One day two 
 of his young friends found him in the little 
 office which adjoined his library. As they 
 went in they saw him with a package of old 
 letters in his lap. He told them that they were 
 letters from his father to his mother, and he 
 read some lines from some of them. He 
 suddenly looked up and said: "He was a 
 brave man. I wish I could see him again." 
 And then he looked at his two friends with 
 a look of great tenderness on his face, and 
 added: "Perhaps I shall." It is these little 
 things that often betray a man's real faith 
 more than his public and elaborate confes- 
 sions of belief. 
 
 I suppose if anyone were to attempt to de- 
 fine Mr. Carnegie's thought about Christ he 
 might arouse such a discussion as has gathered 
 about Mr. Lincoln. One would say he had 
 heard him say one thing; another would say 
 he had heard him say the opposite. Person- 
 ally, I doubt very much if Mr. Carnegie ever 
 gave much thought to the question of the per- 
 
A Religious Man 181 
 
 son of Christ, as the theologian or meta- 
 physician would approach it. I do not re- 
 member ever having heard him speak of it. 
 But he was continually saying, as I have said 
 above, that the only hope of the world was 
 in both individuals and nations living to- 
 gether under the teachings of Christ and in 
 His spirit. I was walking with him one af- 
 ternoon in Central Park when he said : "Did 
 
 I tell you that' (mentioning a young girl 
 
 who was very near and dear to him) is going 
 to join the Church next Sunday? I am very 
 glad. And do you know that the only test 
 the pastor is asking of her is that she try to 
 live in the spirit of Christ?"" It was the 
 Presbyterian Church which Mr, Carnegie at- 
 tended that she was to join, and Mr. Car- 
 negie had a great admiration for the pastor. 
 He continued to talk about it, and I had not 
 seen him more delighted in anything for a 
 long time than in this incident. But those 
 who heard his public addresses and speeches 
 will remember how frequently he quoted the 
 Golden Rule as the only law of life for men 
 and nations. In one respect, Mr. Carnegie 
 adopted the teachings of Jesus as his law of 
 life more thoroughly than almost any man of 
 
182 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 wealth I have ever known. I refer to the 
 principle of stewardship. It is a fundamental 
 teaching of Jesus that whatever one possesses 
 has been given him of God for use in human 
 betterment. Mr. Carnegie believed this with 
 all his heart, was always saying that he did 
 not consider his wealth his own, and put into 
 practice this faith that was so strong In him. 
 His famous saying that it was a disgrace for a 
 man to die rich was as sincere an utterance as 
 ever came from human lips. There has just 
 been published a large book giving a list of 
 Mr. Carnegie's benevolences. In this book 
 the deeds of gift are published with each gift, 
 especially with the many great endowments. 
 In these deeds of gift he Is continually em- 
 phasizing this principle of stewardship, that 
 what God had given him he considered a 
 trust for humanity. 
 
 But nowhere did Mr. Carnegie manifest 
 the central spirit of Christianity more than 
 in his adoption of brotherhood as his creed 
 and practice. He was always talking about 
 it, always urging It upon young men, always 
 referring to it In his many public addresses. 
 Never shall I forget the time when at the 
 great banquet of the First National Peace 
 
A Religious Man 183 
 
 Congress, which I have described in a previ- 
 ous chapter, Baron d'Estournelles de Con- 
 stant, for the French government, bestowed 
 on Mr. Carnegie the cross of the Legion of 
 Honor. It came as a great surprise to him 
 and the thousand guests at the banquet. For 
 a moment Mr. Carnegie could not say any- 
 thing; then, with tears in his eyes, he said: 
 "My friends, Baron d'Estournelles de Con- 
 stant: This honor is as surprising as it is 
 overwhelming. No one knows better than I 
 that it is not deserved. No, it is not deserved 
 for anything that I have done ; but if a heart 
 that keeps on enlarging as I grow older, em- 
 bracing more and more of the world and the 
 people of the world, if that merits the cross 
 of the Legion of Honor, I believe that I do 
 deserve it. For I do find wth every 
 successive year of my life that I take higher 
 and higher views, that I think more and more 
 of humanity, that I have brighter and brighter 
 visions of the future." If that does not 
 breathe the spirit of Christianity, what does? 
 It is also highly significant that the last 
 great gift of Mr. Carnegie was an endow- 
 ment for the use of the churches in promoting 
 international brotherhood, and those of us 
 
184 Recollections of Andrew Carnegie 
 
 jvho were present at his home on the after- 
 noon when he conveyed these millions of dol- 
 lars to the trustees — chosen from the churches 
 — will never forget the high tribute he paid 
 to the churches in his remarks, and how he 
 said again and again that it was to the 
 churches he looked for the ushering in of the 
 reign of justice, brotherhood and eternal 
 peace. 
 
 The End. 
 
BIOGRAPHY AND REMINISCENCES ' 
 
 JAMES M. LUDLOW, P.P., Litt.D, 
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BIOGRAPHY AND MEMOIR 
 
 T I I ■ 
 
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 Latesii Light on Abraham Lincoln 
 
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 Reminiscences of Daniel Bliss 
 
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 Church during his three years of daily army intercourse. 
 
 There is scarcely a side of social life not touched upon. 
 It is a book of Christian idealism which will make leaders 
 think for themselves and keep on thinking until remedies 
 %e found. 
 
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 The Soul of the Soldier 
 
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 A graphic survey of the appalling havoc wrought by the 
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BIOGRAPHY 
 
 BOOKER T. ffASHINGTON 
 
 The Life and Times of Booker T. 
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 By B. F. Riley, D.D., Author of "The White Man's 
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 This authentic Life of the negro slave who rose, against 
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 In the Land of Ararat 
 
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 Mrs. Percy V. Pennybacker 
 
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NEW EDITIONS 
 
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 Alaska Days with John Muir 
 
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 Childhood in the Moslem World 
 
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