9^ 
 
A CONFERENCE 
 
 Abovt the 
 
 
 NEXT SVCCESSION 
 
 TO T H E C R O W N E O F I N 
 
 THE FIRST CONTEYNETH THE 
 difcoutfe of a ciuill Lavvyei, how and ip what manner 
 propinquity o^blood is to he preferred. And thcfecond 
 the fprech of a Tempcwall Lavvycr, about the particuler 
 titles of allfuch as do or may pretcn4c vvithirt logland 
 or without, to the next (uceellion. 
 » 
 
 When vnt0 is alfo added a nfT^&ferfe^ drhoY ergened^ 
 logie of the dtf cents of all the hinges and princes of 
 IngUnd.jrom the conquefi vnto this day, "imherebj cock 
 mans pretence is made more pUine. 
 
 DiRicfiD TO r n 1 right ho- 
 
 norablc the earlc of Essex of her Malcftics 
 priuy counccll,5c of the noble order of the Garter. 
 
 LAND, DIVIDED IN TO 
 
 TWO f A KT h f . 
 
 VV H E R E-O F 
 
 Pablifhcd by R, Doleman. 
 
 Imprinted at N. with Licenced 
 
 Mt X C I I I I. 
 
tHE SOMME OF BOTHE PAR. 
 
 TES MORI IN PARTICVLER. 
 
 THcfirftdccIareth by many proofcs & argu- 
 ments that the nexrpropinquitic or ancetry 
 of blood a!one,ihough it were certaynly knowne, 
 yet that it is not fufficient to be admitted to a 
 crowne, without other coditions and circumftan* 
 ces requifit be foundc alfo in the perfon pretcdent. 
 
 T He (ccondcxamineth the titles and preten- 
 tions of al fnch as may hane claymeor a<5Hcn 
 to the crowne of Ingland at this day^what may b^ 
 faid for thcm,and what agaynft them, and in the 
 end, though he leaue the matter extreme doubtful 
 as touching the bed right, yet he giueth cerrayne 
 coniedurcs about fome perfons that are lykeft 
 topteuaiie. 
 
TO THE RIGHT 
 
 HONORABLE THE EARLE 
 
 ' OF ESSEX, OF HER MAIESTIES 
 r R I V V c o y N c E L* 
 
 VFo prmdpa/ caujes among 
 t hers (right honor able)are x^ot to 
 imite me to dedicate any bookt 
 or treat ife to a fcrfon inautha- 
 ritie^ the one priuate duty ob- 
 ligati)Q,the other publiquevtility^ 
 in rejpeci that the matter may concearm that 
 ferfon for the como good. And to cofejje the truth, 
 bothofthefeioyntlyM^^ motiedme at thu tyme^to 
 present vntoyour honour ahoue others y the tvoo 
 hookes en(uing,vohtchconteyne acenferenceh^d m 
 Holland not long fince, about the pretences ^ pre* 
 tenders to the crov^ne oflngland , as your honour 
 fhall ^ercedue by the preface of each booke^t^ ther- 
 fore herof I fhall need fay no morejbut only declare 
 the fore faidtvoo caufes of this dedication. 
 
 Fir si then I fxyejhat myparticuler obligation, 
 towards your hmottrs perfon/ifeth partly of good 
 turnes and benefites receaued by fomejrendes of 
 mjne at your Lor df hips handes^in your Ufl voyage 
 ^ exploits in Frace, but principally of far greater 
 fauours receaued from your noble anceflors , / 
 mane not fftly ypur father VpJ^ofe vntimclj death 
 
 * 2 VPOS 
 
The Epiflle dcdicatoric 
 roOS to Inglad mfm^IIe xvoude , but cfyonr gradfd- 
 t her alfo, that vporthy Knight Sir VFxlter Denorax 
 vcfho though he liued not to come to thofe titles of 
 honor yVpher unto hexvd^ borne-^ jet left he hehinde 
 him [o Tsre a memory for his excellent partes of 
 lerning, voityfeuter ofbody,curtefte,(^ other fuch 
 noble commedationSy^s none in Ingland perbapps 
 the lykcin our tyme , xoherinaljo hath lined your 
 honours ^eat grandfather Sir Henry Deuorax 
 vifconde Ferys voelrememhred yet by diners of 
 fny faid frendes ohliged'vnto him, as alfo recorded 
 bf our Inglifh hifofies, ^ wll for his merits (jr 
 Vporthines ^ in Ijh manner for his match mth 
 the heyre of the mofi famous ^ noble houfe of the 
 Bourchers earUs of Effex^ufherofatfoyour honour 
 is knimne to bedifceded , (jr to hold at this day as 
 Tpel their nobilitie ofUoode as dignitie of title, ^ 
 this fhallferue in this place for my pertictder obli- 
 gdtioniopherofperh^pps here-after vppon other oc- 
 cafton , I may gi tie further relation and teflimony 
 to the wrld.in token of my gratitude. 
 
 Btitfor the fecond pointe cfpnbliqitt vtilitiej 
 thought no man more ftt thenyot^r honour to de- 
 dicate t hefe trco botches vnto, xohich treat e of the 
 fuccefsion to the cro^ne of ingland, fwr that no ma 
 is in more higl9 & eminent place or dignitie at 
 thisdayinottrrealme^thenyottr felfi^vs^bethervoe 
 
to the carle of E flex. 
 
 refpectyour nohilttiefir ca//mg,orfauourwthyour 
 f rime, or high ukingofthe people, conjequently 
 no mm like to haue a greater part or f my in de^ 
 cidmgof this great ajfatre ( vphen tymefh all come 
 for that determination ) then your honour y and 
 thofe that voill afifi you dr Are Itkefito follovi>your 
 fame and fortune. 
 
 And for that it is not couenient for your honour 
 10 be vnfkillfuil in a matter vphich cocerneth^your 
 ferfon the v^holerealrne ^fo much this doth, 
 and finding this conference had by tm learned 
 Lavpyers , to handle the cjueflion very pithely and 
 exaclly,andyet roith much modeflye, and vpithout 
 cffence of any ^ and vpith particuler affe^lion and 
 deuotion to her Matt flie^ & voith Jpccialcare of her 
 fafetye: ! thought not expedient to Utitlyevn- 
 puhitfhed^a^ alfo liudged that no hads ^ere fitter 
 to receaue the fame^ nor any prote&io more fecure 
 orplaufihle , then that of your honour , ^hom God 
 longpreferue in all true honour and felicity, to the 
 comfort of your Lord f hips fatthfuH Jeruants 
 clyentSy^ to thepublique benefit e of your country: 
 from my chamber in K^mflerdame this lafi of 
 December, jj p 3* 
 
 Yjur honours moft afFe(flionatc 
 
 R. DOLBMAK. 
 
THE CONTENTS OF 
 
 THE FIRST PARTE. 
 
 TH E preface contcyning thcaccafion of this trca-, 
 tife,vvith the fubicd,purpofc, & partes thcrof. 
 
 That fucceffion togoucrment by necrncs of bloodc is. 
 not by Law ofnaturc,or diaine, but only by humanc5c 
 pofiriuc Lawes of euery particuler common wealth , and 
 confcquently, may vppon iufl: caufcs be altered by the 
 iame, Cap.i.fol.i. 
 
 Of the particuler forme of Monarchies & kingdomcs^X 
 and the ditfcrent Lawes whcrby they ar* to be obtey ned,> 
 holdcn , and gouerned in diuers countryes , according as 
 cch common wealth hath chofcn and eftablifhed. Cap. 
 
 2.fol.I5. J 
 
 Of the great reucrencc and refpect dew to kings , and 
 yet how diuers of them , haue bine lawfully chaltifcd by 
 their commo wealthes for their mifgouerment;,& of the 
 good and profperousfuecefle that god commonly hath 
 giaentothefame, and much more to the putting back 
 ofanvnworthie pretendcr.Cap.3.fol.37. 
 
 VVhcrin confifteth principally the lawfulnesof pro- 
 ceeding agaynft Prince>, which in the former chapter is 
 mentioned, what intcreft Princes haue in their fubiccls 
 
 foodes or Hues: how othes doby nde or may be broken 
 y fubiefe tpwardes their Princes: and finally the difFc* 
 renccbetweenc a good king & a Tyrant. Cap. 4. fol.63. 
 
 Of the Coronation of Princes, and manner of their 
 admitting to their authority , and the othei> which they 
 do make in the rame,vnto the common wcalih,for ihcir 
 good goucrmcnt. Cap.s-fol.Sz. 
 
 yVhatisdcw to only fucccHion by birth,and what 
 
 intcreft 
 
intercft or right an hcyrc apparent hath to the crowne, 
 before he is crowned or admitted by the commo wcahh, 
 and how iullly he may be put back , if he haue not the 
 partes rcquifite. Cap. 6. fol. 121. 
 
 How the next in fucccilion by propinquity of bloode^, 
 haue ofrentymcs bin put back by the comon wcahh, 6c 
 others further of admitted in their places , cucn m thofc 
 kingdomcs where fucceifion preuaileth , with many ex- 
 amples of the kingdomcs of llrael and Spaync. Cap. 7. 
 fol. 140. 
 
 Of diucrs other examples out of the ftates of France 
 &Ingland,forproofe that the next in blood are fomc- 
 tynies put back from fuccelTion , and hew god hath ap^ 
 proued the fame with good fucceflc.Cap.8. foK 164. 
 
 yVbat are the principall points which a como wealth 
 oughttorefpeAin admitting or excluding any Prince, 
 wherin is handled largiy alk) of the diuerfitie, of reli- 
 gions, and other fuch Caures.Cap.9.foI. 197. 
 
 THE CONTENTS OF 
 
 THE SECOND BOOK E. 
 
 THe preface with the intention 5c proteftation of 
 the I.awj'er to t^eat this matter without the hurt 
 or preiudicc of aiiy. 
 
 Of diuers bookes & treatifes that nauc bin written 
 heretofore about the titles of fuch as pretende the 
 crowne of Ingland,and wbat they do contey ne in fauoiit 
 €r disfauourof diucrs pretendors. Cap. i.fol. i. 
 
 Of the fucceflion of the crowne of Ingland from the 
 conqucft vnto the tymc of king Edward the third, with 
 the beginning of three principal linages of the Inglifh 
 blood royal,difperfedint0 the houfes of Britanie Lan- 
 cafter and Yorkc C^p . 2. fol, 1 2. 
 
 Of the fucceflio of Inglifh kings fro kirg Edward the 
 ihird vnto our daycs,\ri3ii the particular caufes of diflTen- 
 : lion 
 
tion bctwccnc the families of Yorkc and Lancaftcr more 
 largly dcclarcJ.Cap.s.fol. 37. 
 
 Of the great arnd general controuerfie and contention 
 bciweenc the faid two houfcs royal of Lancal>cr and 
 Yorke^and which of them may leemetohauc had the 
 bcteer right to thecrowne, by way of fucccflion. Cap, 4. 
 £01.56. 
 
 Of flue principal and particuler hotifes ot linages 
 thaj do or may pretend the crowne of Ingland at this 
 day, which are the hoUfcs of Scotland, of Suifolck, of 
 Clarence, of Britanie, and of Portugal, and firft of al the 
 houfe of Scorland,which conteyneth the pretentions of 
 the kingofScotts,ac of the LadyArbella. Cap. 5.fol. 107. 
 
 Of the houfe of SufFolke contevning the claymes 
 alwelofthecounteflc of Darby and of her children as 
 alfo of the children of the earle of Hartfort. Cap. ^. 
 fol.130. 
 
 Ofthe houfcs of Clarence and Britany, which con- 
 teyneth the claymes of the earle of Huntington, and of 
 the Lady Infanta ofSpaync and others of th^fc two fa- 
 milies. Cap.7.fol.i4r, 
 
 Of the houfe of Portugall which conteyneth the clay- 
 mesas well of the king and Prince of Spayne to thefuc- 
 ceflion of Ingland, as alfo of the dukes of Parnaa and 
 Braganfa by the houfcof Lancafter.Cap.S.fol. 160. 
 
 Whether it be better to bevnderaforraine or hom- 
 borne Prince, and whether vnder a great and mightic 
 monarch, or vnder a little Prince or king.Cap.9.fol- »93» 
 
 Of certaync other fccondary or collateral Unes and 
 how extreme doubtfull al the pretences be,and which of 
 all theafe pretenders are moft like by probability to pi c- 
 uailc in the cndA toget the crowne of Ingland. Cap. 3o> 
 £01.233. 
 
THE PREFACE, 
 
 CONTEYNING THE Oc- 
 casion OF THIS TREATIS, 
 With thefubied, pnrpofe, and 
 partes therof. 
 
 Her chdunced not long ago (l mcane 
 m the monetbes of Aprill and May of this 
 lajlyeare^^*) to mete inAmJlerdam in 
 HoUand cert ay ne Gentlemen of diners 
 nations, qualities and affellions , as T^el in religion as 
 dtherl^ife: (yetthemofi part Inghfh andlrifh) and 
 they had bine in diners countries, fiudted different or- 
 tes, andfoUoT^ed vnltke pi of ef tons: fomeof fouldiarsy ^^^^^^^ 
 fome of lawyers both temporal & ciuil, others ofmecre ting, 
 ttauelors to leame experience and polite j : And for that 
 the aduifes T^huh dajly came from Ingland at that 
 tyme, (the parlament being then in hand) gaue occafion 
 iodifcourfeof Ingltfh ajfaires y they fell into dims 
 poyntes concerning the fame : but yet noneli>as treated 
 fo largly or fo feriotijlj,asTi^as the matter of fuccefiion The mat- 
 and competitors to the croT^ne, forthatit^asprcfu-^^^^^^l^^^' 
 tned a great Ti^hile.that fome thingT^ot4ld be determt- dik\xi^ci^ 
 ned therof in that parlament ^ though one or tfi^o of the 
 y^^ifefl of that company Jield euer the contrary opinion. 
 WiitlPhen at lenght nelpes Tpa$ brought, that nothing 
 
 - B at all 
 
THE PREFACE AND OCCASlOiT. 
 dtal had bin done tber 'my but rather that one or tTi^o 
 M.Bto- {as "k^as reported) had bm checked or committed for 
 m!v Vet- IP^^klfig tn the fame : then came it in queftion among 
 worth, thes Gentlemen, T^hat fhould be the caufes of fuch 
 poceding in a matter fo ^aightjf and fo necejfajy for 
 al Inglif h men to hr}o^ ? 
 TvYoia* Gentlemen Lawyers of the company , on$ 
 
 of the common la^^ and the other a Ciuilian^ alleaged 
 fo many reajons for iujiifying the Queenes Maiejltes 
 doings in this behalf e, as al did feeme fatisfed ; for 
 that it T^as made playne, that it could not ftandc 
 li^tth the fafety eyther of her MaieHy, or of the realme^ 
 or of the party htmfelfe lifho fhould be preferred, 
 that any declaration of h^re apparent fhould be made, 
 during the life of her Maiejiy that noT^ is , ho'V^ 
 dangeronsfocuerthe delay ther of may be ejlemed for 
 the ty me to come. 
 
 And fo the end of this fpeach , brought in prcfently 
 the begining of an other , to l^ir, T)i^hat M^eare like to 
 be thes danger Sy andy^ho might be likefi of the pre* 
 tendors to preuaile after her Maieflie, about 'J^hicb 
 matter^ ther Mi^as much difcourfed by dmers parties^ 
 but the conclufton ofal, J^as , that both thes poyntes 
 remayned very doubtful , bm much more the fecondy 
 y^ho fhouldpreuaiky of the competitors, T^hichthey 
 fatd, did make the former poynt leffe doubtful of the 
 multitude of dangers y that thcrbj did hang ouer tljc 
 common "ti^eakh of Ingland , though it Teamed not 
 doubt alfo in particuler, ^i^hat andl^here they fhould 
 fal, for (faid they) Ti^herfoeuer many pretenders of the 
 bloodroyall are kno^ne to be competitors to acro^ne. 
 
THE PREFACE AND OCCASION. 
 ther cannot chufe but many pcrilles alfo muji be immU 
 nent to the reahne. 
 
 To thU.one of the company faid, that he did not fee 
 hol^ ther could be eyther fo many pretenders to the 
 crol^neas the daj before had bin fpoken of in that 
 place (for the commo lA^yer before named nel^ly come Many pre 
 eutoflngland, had tould them that he had hard offo- 
 me 9 . or iok or mre plotts that ^ere debated l^ithtn crownc 
 therealmey forfo man) pretenders) or yf ther T^^^o^^S^*^ 
 any fuch great number defcended of the blood royally 
 yet their titles cotM not be fo doubtfull y feing it "^as 
 an eafy matter to difcerne, Tpho ^as next in difcent of 
 blood, and^ho not. 
 
 Not fo eafy, qmh this Gentleman lawyer, for that 
 although It cannot be denyed, but that ther is among 
 aI fuch as may pretend at this day : a certayneknolr>ne 
 order and degree of neexnes in blood to fome king or 
 Queene that hath poffeffed the croli^ne before them: 
 and in this difcent it is kno^ne alfo commonly^ T^ho 
 defcendeth of the elder houfe , and '^ho of the yonger^ 
 and other fuch like vulgar ch'cumflajices : yet mt^ 
 'J^ithfiandmgfar that ther be many other poyntes con^ 
 fiderable in this affaire, as the right of the frfl flock^y doubtftd 
 J^herof ech part doth fprtng , the difabUng of r/;^ ScvYhy. 
 fame fiock^afterl^ards by attamders or otherfi^ife : 
 the baflardtes or other particuler impedimets that may 
 haue fallen vppon ech difcent or branch ther of : at 
 thes t hinges {faid he) may alter the courfe of com^ 
 mon fuppo fed right y in him or her y that is taken to 
 be next in blood, asprouingthemnotto be truly and 
 IdlP fully the nerejl ^though they be the next in degree. 
 
 £ z As for 
 
THE PREFACfi AND OCCASION. 
 Three or AsfoY example (faid he) the \'hok multitude of 
 principal Competitors Or pretenders T^hich I tonceaue may come 
 headcs of m confiderution, or hatie aition orclayme to the croHi^me 
 dra!*^* /if/f r Im Matefly that no^ is, may he reduced to three 
 or folder jtrjl heads or principal jiocks^ toJ^it.to the 
 houfe of Lancafler a party as defcendedofJohn ofGant 
 Dtikeof Lancajler by his firfi ^ife Blanche^ fok 
 heyre of the Dtichte of Lancaster. And of this branch or 
 jtockjhe mojl k^oTi^ne of-Jprmg in thes bur dayes aie 
 thosVrinc^that are Imeally dtfcended of Don luan 
 thefirji furnamed de boa memoiia, tenth hmg of 
 Tortugalj ^ho marry ed T^ith Fhdip the eldejl daugh^ 
 terof the faide John ofGant by hisfirjl%'ife Blanche: 
 and thes Vrinces are kingThillip of Spayneno^ king 
 alfo of Portugal y & the Dukes of Parma and Bra- 
 ganz^ay ^ho defccnded ofthefami race^^ts alfo the 
 Duke ofSauoy one degree after them. 
 TorkL'. T/;^ fecond jlock^is of the houfe of jorke a part, 
 de fcendmg of George the Duke of Clarence fecond 
 brother to kl^igEdT^ard the fourth, Ti^ho being put to 
 death by the kings order inCales left a daughter by 
 *^hom are descended the Earle of Huntington 'J^ith his 
 brothers, Ti^htch alfo haue children, and iheofjpring of 
 Gejfrey Pole and Sir Thonus Barrington T^ho mar^ 
 rjed the other fifier of her that fi^as mar'ijed to the 
 Uajitngs. 
 
 5. 'Phe third Jlock^T^as in king Henry the feuenthe 
 The^tvvo "f^ho being himfelfe of the houfe of lancafler and 
 aoyncd. uiarylngthe eldefl daughter of Pdlvard the fotirthof 
 the houfe ofyork^y is prefumed to haue ioyned thes 
 tlt^ohoufes together ^ and from this man by his tl^o 
 
 daughters 
 
THE PREFACE AND OCCASION. 
 
 (laughters ( for of his forme Jt^ho ^as king Henry 
 the eight they renuyneth only the Oueetie that no^ is) 
 ther hath proceeded the houfe of Scotland deiitdedinto 
 the famylies of the king of Scols and Arbella , as 
 alfo the progeny of the t^o Earles yetliuing of Hart-- 
 ford and Darby. Vnto thes three heads , T^hich are 
 commonlte kno^cn to al men , fome of ourdayes do 
 add alfo a fourth , li^hich may feeme more ancient 
 then ether of al thes three, to "Ji^it by the Dukjs of 
 Brjtaine, ^^ho are difcendeddyuers^ayes of the blood 
 royal of Ingland as maye eafely be declared , Ti^^hofe 
 hetre at this day by lineal difcent is the Enfanta of 
 Spamc named Dana TfabelU Clara Eugenia daughter , 
 to king Fhihpp: So that heerby D^ee come to difcouery 
 po leffe then ten or elenen famylies that may pretend^ 
 (indhaue alofthemfrends in Ingland, andelsT);her 
 (asyeflerdayl toldyou) -^ho donotfayle in fecret to 
 negotiat andlay plottsfor them, for that ther are none 
 of thes, fo far of , but to their frends it feemeth (the 
 tymes flandmg as they do) that reafons may be gi- 
 uen for their prefementy and goad hope conceaued of 
 peuaylmg. 
 
 T OH do i^el to aide (faida Captayne ther prefen't) circum- 
 the tymes jianding as they do, or at leaft fi^ife *^the'tynM 
 they are like to ft and ^ j^hen this matter muft ^am^ pcefciit. 
 to trial, at ^phat tyme, I beleue^ not you lawyers, but 
 T^e fouldiars mujl determyne this title, and then (no 
 doubt) if ther^ere not only thes tenn by you named, 
 but twenty moore alfo of the blood royal ^ that 
 j^ouldpretend, and hadfrends and money to fiand by 
 them ^Ipe fh Quid admit their caufes to examina^ 
 
 B } tion. 
 
THE PREFACE AND OCCASION. 
 
 tion,andpey happs giue fenteme for him, that by your 
 Idms li^ouldfonefi be excluded^ for ^he matters come 
 to [natcbingy it is hard to fay ^ho f hal ham the bet 
 terpart. 
 
 I do not ad this circumjlame of the tyme ( (aid the 
 lawyer) as though itT^erethe only or principal poynt 
 Ji^hich maketh doubtful the matter offuccef^w, though 
 I confejfe that it helpeth ther-vnto greatly ^ in re^ 
 Jpeil of the great variety of mens ajfeitmsy at this day 
 tn religion^ liphicb do iuclme them commonly to iudge 
 for him,f^hom they bejl hue: but bcfids this J do fay y 
 thatTi^erethetymcs neuer fo quiet, andreltgion neuer 
 fp vniforme: yet are ther great doubtes in many mens 
 headeSj about the laTi^fulnes of dtuers pretentions of 
 the famyltes before named: but if you adde vnto this^ 
 the [aid ^onderftiU diuerfity in matters of reltgioalfo, 
 ^htch this tyme yealdeth: you fhal finde the euent 
 much more doubt full, and confequenthf it is no mat"* 
 uailc though many may remame in hope to preuatle^ 
 feing that l^her many are admitted to jlandfor a pre^ 
 ferment y ther diuers may haue prohalitj alfo ofjpee^ 
 ding . 
 
 An example you may take, (faidthe Ctt/tltalaT^yer) 
 The Ro- in the Roman Conclaue, at the popes elecltony ft her ^ 
 dauc^^^' ^^o^S^ '^'^^^^ fo^erfcore Cardinales that enter in 
 for elcclors.fel^ ther are, that haue not hope alfo to be 
 eleRed, not for that they fee themfelues, all 04 ^cU qtta^ 
 Itjiedy as others :but becaufe oftentymes Ti^hcn diuers 
 that are more forward by, likely hede cannot be agreed 
 vppvn: itfaUeth to the lott ofhun that isfardeU ofy and 
 fott may among your petenders{quoth hejtn Ingland. 
 
 Xour 
 
THE PREFACE AND OCCASION, 
 
 Tour example (faid the temporal lairyer confimeth 
 fomefi^hat of that I meane though it be not al to-- 
 geather in like matter . ormancr for that the pope is 
 made by eleciio,& here'^e talke of a king byfucccjUon. 
 
 tour fuccepon,fatd the Ciuittany mcludeth alfo an 
 electionor approbation of the common i^ealth and /isuccciTio 
 doth the fuaepon of al kings tn Chrtfiendome befidesy ^^"j^Q^ome 
 as li el appear eth by the manner of their new ^rfmi/-kindeof 
 fion at their coronations^Tif her the people are demaun*^^^^^* 
 dedagayne y if they be content to accept fuch a 
 man for their King; thought his title of neernes by ^ 
 bloodMneiier focleere. And ther fore much more ^^tcrwardf 
 is like to be in this cafe of Ingltfh pretenders wo>,^^P^- ^ 
 ^herthetr lawful neernes in blood is fo doubtful as^* 
 you haue figntfiedy& fo I do cometo confirmeyout for^ 
 met propofitton, of the doubt fulnes of the next fucceffor 
 in Ingland -^ith an other reafonbefids that ^hichyoti 
 haue allcaged of the ambiguity of their true^ropinqui^ 
 ij in blood: for J fay further, that albeit the neernes of 
 each mans fuccepon in bloody ^reeuidcntlj knoii^ne^ 
 yet 'i^ere itvery vncertayne (as things no^ Jiand in 
 Ingland and in the reft of Chrtfiendome ron^nd about) 
 y^bo fhould preuaiky for that it is not enough for a 
 man to be next only in blood, therby to pretend a 
 cro'^^ne , but that other circumjlances alfo muji con^ 
 currCy T^htch if they i^janty the bare propinquity or an^ 
 ietrie of blood may iujily be retelledyand he that isfe- Ncenie* 
 cond, third, fourth y fifth or lajl , may lal^ftiUy be pre- ^f^^j not 
 f erred before the fir fly and this by al lal^ both diuine fufficicftu 
 
fM fUfkl^l AUb OCiCASION. 
 
 To this [aid the temporal lawyer , you go further 
 (sir) then I had meant to doe or did concfaue of th: 
 matter, for my meatrng only i)pas to f ber^ ho^e many 
 pretenders ther he to the Inglifh cro'^ne at this day^ 
 & hoi^ dotibtf id the pretentions of diuers of the chief e 
 of them be, inrejpeclofth^ many excluftons^ ftoppes 
 4nd barresthat thetr aduerfarjes orfelhyt^ competitors 
 do lay againfi them : and noii> you do adde further y 
 that albeit thes Jtoppes T^ere taken dli^ ay, and their 
 propinquity m blood l^ere manifejl, yet for other confix 
 iterations the courfe of thetr next ]ucce(?wn hj birth 
 may be iufily alter ed,xppon fuch conjiderattons as you 
 tnfinuatey that the Inglifh mayhaue in the admtf- 
 fion of their next king or Queene.after her Maiejly that 
 nol^ is, T^hich in deede (if it be true) maheth the mat ^ 
 ler offuccejston much more doubt fuly then I pretended^ 
 ^hich I confeffe I haue not fo muchjiudied or thought 
 of, for that our common goeth no further ordi- 
 narily, thentothe next fucceffor m bloody to conjider 
 Ji^hether he be laii>fuUy defcended or no, therhy to gtuo 
 him the croi^ne. y 
 
 I confeffe (fatd the Ciuilian) that ordinarily nether 
 yourja'^, nor ours doth go any further^ ef^ecially in 
 More to thosrealmes %'h3r the gouerment ^oeth by (uccefion 
 Sercd bt ^lood. ^hich I thinly to be the bejl ofal other 
 fides luc- 'U;ajes, but ye^ ther may happen outfuch extraordinary 
 ^i^f^l^^.^'^ cafes fometymes , agaynft this ordinary rule, as your 
 tendois. Common Ixjp muft needs take alfo conftderatw of thefn^ 
 except it li^ilbe contrary to al other la^ andreafon, 
 both diuine and humane , as for example, if it f hould 
 fal out, that the next in blood f hould be a natural foole 
 
 or 4 
 
THE PREFACE AND OCCASION. 
 
 0Y a madd man : if he fhould be taken by Tmhss OY 
 Moores 'tnbis infancy & brought vp tn their religion 
 aid ^ould mayntajne the fame in your countrey, l^tth 
 bis forces, and other Ithevr gent cafes ^ T^herin it is 
 not probable , but that your common la'j^ mnft needs 
 haue further conftderation, then of the bare propinqui- 
 ty of blood only, for that other^^ft it fhotdd be a very 
 imperfe^la^, that hath notprouided for accidents fo 
 Weighty and important, as thes are^ for fauing and 
 conferuing of your common la^ealth. 
 
 At this jpeach, the reftdeT^ of the company began to 
 fmtle, to fee the t'j);o lawyers groii; into fome heate and 
 companfon of their profefions. But yet for that both 
 their affeuerations^ dtdtc ndc toproue one thing, ^hich 
 %^as thejirJipropofitionfetdoTl'ne, to^^it, that the 
 next fuccellbr of Ingland mnft needs be very 
 doubtful : they rcquejied them both T^itb very great 
 inliance, that ech onei^ouldbe content to prone hisV^f^^'^J^ 
 aljertion 4parte,to ivzf^ the temporal lanysr to J he'^e tes hand 
 that the titles and pretenfions ofalthofe ten or eletien^^^^^^^ 
 family es of the Inglifh blood royal, i^hich remayne at 
 this daycare ambiguous and doubtful, according to the 
 common la'Ji^es of Ingland: and the ciuiltan to declare 
 that albeit their titles by fuccefiou l^ere cleareyet that 
 its things flande nol^ in that realme y and other coun- 
 try es ncere adioymng^ther may be a great doubt l^hicb 
 of them fhalpreuaile. 
 
 This I fay, i^as the requejl of the ft^hole company^ 
 and the lawyers 'S^ere cotent to take it vppon them, and 
 according to thestD^o poynts it %\ts agreed that the 
 Tpbole fpeach or conference^ fhould be deuided into tTi^o 
 
 B J parts 
 
THE PREFACE AND OCCASION. 
 tcT^fth^ f ^rrx, and that the cmllaT^j/ety fhould begin firji , for 
 ewifercn! ^^^^ feemedjhat his ajfertion.being Ti^el declared and 
 proued,T^ouldgiue much light ta the other J and fo he 
 ffomifedto doy andtobe as brief y clere & perjpicuous 
 4S be tnightey and to reduce al that he ^ould faj ta 
 certayne principal heades and chapters t her by the 
 better to be vnder flood & remembredy and 
 fo he began in manner and forme 
 folkT^ing. 
 
 ~ THAT 
 
THAT SY C CES^ 
 
 SION TO COVER MENT 
 BY NEERNES OF BLOOD IS NOT 
 bjldTi^ of nature or di nine y hut only by humane and 
 fofitiue la^es ofeuery particuler common health 
 and confequentely may vppon iufi caufes 
 bealteredby the fame. 
 
 CAP. I. 
 
 He examples before allea- 
 
 ^^P] ged (faid thcciuilian lawyer) 
 of a madd or furious heyrc 
 S apparent, or ofone that were 
 by education a Tuike or 
 ^ Moore in religion, or by na- 
 curedepriued of his witr , or 
 fenfes , do playnely proue thatpropinquiry of 
 birth or blood alone 3 without other circum- 
 ftances, is not fufficient to be preferred to a 
 crowne: forthatnoreafonorlaw, religion ocl, 
 wifdom in the world, can admitt fuch perforrs 
 to the gouermet of a comon wealth by whom, 
 nogood^but diftrudion may be expe<fted to 
 the fame^feing that gouerment was ordeyned 
 for the benefit of the wealc publiijucand not 
 otherwifc. 
 
 And 
 
z A Confermce touching fuccepon 
 
 Bellay And albcic fomc one Of two iuthes OUT dayes 
 pro " g^' ^^"^ affirmed the contrary^ and publif hed the 
 cap.2o. Tame in wiyting for the defence^ flarery, or ad- 
 uanncement of fome Pi^nce whom they fa- 
 uour, affirming that euen a foole, madd or fu-f 
 rioiis man^or otherwife fo wicked as hewouli 
 endeuoLir to deftcoy the common welth , 
 were to be admitted to the feat royal , without 
 further confideration , if he be next in blood: 
 yet this is fo manifeftly agaynftal reafon , and 
 confcience, andagayntl the very firft ende and 
 purpofe of inftitution of common weahhes, 
 and mageftrates, as it fhal not nede to be re* 
 futed in this place, albeit afterwards ther wit 
 nor want place and commodity for the fame. 
 Not only Hereof it doth enfew, that fome other con- 
 j^^^.^^^dicions alfo mud needs be requifit, for com- 
 ming rogouerment by fucceffion, befides the 
 only propmquity or priory ty in blood,and that 
 thes condicions miiftbe afligned and limited 
 oar by fome higher anthority then is that of 
 the Prince himfelfc,who is boiindeand limited 
 therbyjand yet it feemctheuidentthey are* not 
 prefcnbedby any law of nature or diuine , for 
 thit then they fhouldbeboth immutable and 
 the felfe fame in al countries , (as God and na- 
 ture areone,& the fame toaljWithout chaingej 
 wher nothwithftandmg we fee , that thes 
 condicions and circumftances offucceding by 
 birth, are diuers or different indifferent coun- 
 iryes,asalfo they are fubieft to changes accor- 
 ding to the diuerfity of kingdomes, realmes, & 
 
 people. 
 
ft) the CYof^ne. Part t . C a i>. i. 3 
 people, as after fhalbe f hewed more in parti- 
 culcr,wherby we are forced to conclude that 
 euery particulercouncrey and comiTiOn wealth 
 hathprefcribedthes condicions toic felfe and 
 hath authority to do the fame. 
 
 For better profewherof, it is firftofaljo be^hat n6 
 fuppofed, that albeit fociability or inclination penicuier 
 ro line togeather in company, man with nian^g^^^^^g' 
 (wherofenfuethboth city and commo wealth is of nam 
 as Ariftotle gathereth in his firft booke of^^' 
 politicjues) be of nature, and confequently alfo 
 of God, that is author of nature : though go- 
 uerment in lyke maner and iutifdidion of ma- 
 geftrats which doth follow neceilarily vppon 
 this lining together, in company: be alio of 
 nature^yetthe particuler forme or manner of 
 this or that goueiment, in this or that faf hion, 
 astohauemanygouernors, few, or one, and 
 thoseytherKinges, Dukes Earles , or the like: 
 or that they f hould haue this or that authority 
 more or lelIe,for longer or f horter tvme, or be 
 taken by fucceffion or eledioujihemfelues and 
 their children, or next in blood : al thes things 
 (I fay) are not by law ether natural or diuine, 
 (for then as hath bine faid they fhould be al 
 one in al countryes and nations, fenig God and 
 nature is one toal) but they* are ordayned by 
 particuler politiue iawes of euery countrey ^s^^^,^^. 
 afterwards moie largely f halbe proued. compan^^ 
 
 But nowthat fociability in mankind, orin-'^ natural 
 
 di . . , » to man 5c 
 
 ir\ation to Iiue in company, is by nature, and thcgrowd 
 
 confequently ordeyned by God, for the com- ^^^^^ com 
 
 ' ' movvcal* 
 
 nion thet. 
 
4 A Conference touching fuccefm 
 
 mon benefit of al : is an cafy thing to proue^ 
 fcingthatal ground of realmes and common 
 Wealthes depcndeih of this poynt, as of ther 
 firft principle,for that a common wealth is no- 
 thing els but chc good goucrment ^ of a multi- 
 tude gathered together, co Hue in one, & ther- 
 fore al olde philofophers, law makers, and wife 
 men, that haue treated of gouerment or com- 
 mon wcaUhes, as Plato in his ten moft excel- 
 lent bookes, which he wrot of this matter inri- 
 ^^^b^ci ^"'^"g^hem of the commouT^ealthy and Marcus 
 ccro Cicero that famous councclor in other fix boo- 
 
 Ariftotlc l^^^^h^^h^^^'^^f^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^j vnder the 
 poUt. fame title. And Ariftotle that perhaps excel- 
 leth them both, in eight bookes which he cal- 
 led his pollitiques, al theslfayedomake their 
 entrance to treat of ther common wealth af- 
 fayres/rom this fiift principle, to wit, that man 
 by nature is fociable , and inclined to hue in company, 
 vvherof do proceede firft, al priuatc houfes, 
 then villages , thentownes, thencicyes, then 
 kingdomes^ & common wealthes, 
 Wucrs jhis ground & principle then do they proue 
 by diuers euident reafbns, as fiift^ for that in al 
 nations, neuerfo wild orbarborous, we fee by 
 jgj.Ujj'a(j5 experience that by one way or other, they 
 Tniucrfal. endeuour to Hue together, ether in cityes, tow- 
 McTa Jib. nes,villages,caues, woodes^ tents, or other like 
 ^x^p.^. 4 manner ^according to thecuftomeofech coun- 
 Tacit.l.8. tiP^y^ vvJ^ich vniuerfal inftind could neuer be 
 inal, but by impreffionof nature it felfe. 
 2. Secondly they proue the fame, by that the 
 Speech vfcof 
 
to th erol^ne. Tart r. Cap. I. j 
 y(e of fpeech isgiucn to man foi this end andAriftot.t 
 puipok j for that litle auaylable were this P"- j'^^^;*^ 
 uiledge of I peaking if men f hould hue alone & 
 conuerfe with none. 
 
 Thirdly not only Ariftotle but Theophraftus j. 
 alfo PIutarch,and others do confirme the fame, J^"*^^^- 
 by the poore eftate Sc condition, W'herin man is man. 
 borne, more infirmc then any other creature, |r^^°P|^ 
 though by creation he be lord & gouernor ofpiaut.piii 
 althe reft ; for where as ech other creature is ^^^'^^^^^J^^ 
 borne in a certay ne fort armed and defended in na, &libl 
 it felfe^as the bul with his hornes,the bore with depicu- 
 his tuf ke, the bear & woIfe, with their tcath, 
 the birde with hirferhers agaynft cold & with 
 her \^ y »iges to flyc away, the hart & hare with 
 their (Ivifcnes and the Hke : only man is borne 
 feble and naked, not able to prouide or defende 
 himfelfe in many yeares , but only by the healp 
 of others, vvhich is k token that he is borne to 
 liue in company and to be holpen by others, & 
 this not only for his necelsity and help at his 
 begining whiles he is in this imbecility, but al- 
 fo for his more comodious liuingin the reft of 
 his dayes afterwards, feingno man of himfelfe 
 is fufficient for himfelfe, & he that liueth alone 
 can haue no benefite of others, or do any to 
 others, wherfore wittelyfaid Ariftotle in the Notcthit 
 fccond chapter of his firft booke of politiqucs, ^"^^^^^ 
 that he'ii?hich flicth to Hue in fociety is ether Dm aut ^ ^ 
 PellHa,aGod or a befl: for that cth^t he doth it bc- 
 caufe he hath no neede, of any which is proper 
 to God, or els for that he vvildo good to none, 
 
 and 
 
^ A Conference touching fucceport 
 
 and fceleth not that natural inftinft, whicfe 
 man hath to hue in conuciTation , which is a 
 figne rather of a beaft then of a man. 
 4.Thevrc Cicero doth add an other reafon for this 
 ce and^ puvpofe, to vvit, the vfe of cerraine principal 
 Yierkp. vertues giuenvntoman> but principally iuftice 
 &fi:enfhip, which fhould be vtrerty in vaine^ 
 and to no vtilit^^e^ if man fhould nor huein 
 fcompany of others/or feing the office of iuftice 
 is to diftribut to euery one his owne : wher no 
 number is.thcr no diftribution can be vfed, as 
 alfo ney ther any ad of frenf hip^ which yet in 
 the fociety of maisfoneceffary & vfual (Tayeth 
 Cicero this excellent man) vt nec aqua nec igne necipfQ 
 lib. dc-^ folepluribm inlocisvtamuryquamamtciua, that we 
 amicuia. j^^ther Water nor fycr nor the fonne itfelfe 
 
 in more places or occafions then frenf hip. 
 Tlievfeof ^^^^ ^^^^ efFe£t^of vfing fi f nf hip, loue and 
 charity Sc charity the one towards the other, do chriftiaa 
 ^tf^a ^^^^^^ ^^''^^ andefpecially S.Auguftinein his 
 other, booke of frcnfhip , reduce the inrtitution of 
 IM> de^ this natural inftind of lining in copany: which 
 araicitia. fecmeth alfo to be confirmed by God liym felf 
 in thofe wordes of Gcnefis, Dixit quoque Domi-* 
 Gcn.2.v. nusDens : non eft bonum hominem ejfe folum, facta^ 
 mis, e'l aditttonum, fimilefthu God (kid, it is not 
 good that man (hould be alone, let vs make 
 vntohim , a help or afllftante likevntohim- 
 felfe.of which wordes is deduced rhat as this 
 firft fociety of our firft pa rets, was of God5& for 
 fo great purpofeasheereisfetdowne, the one 
 to be holpen by the other : fo al other focietyes, 
 
 in like 
 
tothecroTi^fte. Tart i. Cap. I. 7 
 in like raaner which grow of thisfirft, (land 
 vppon the fame ground of Gods ordination for 
 the fclfe fame end of mans vtiUty. 
 
 And I haue bin the longer in fpeaking of 
 this natural inftindt to fociety, for that it is the 
 fiift founcaine ofal the reft, that enfeweth in 
 a common wealth, as hath bine faid: forotthis 
 come familyes^ villagesj townes, caftles, cyties, 
 and common weahhes, al which Ariftotle in 
 his bookes before named , doth proue to be of 
 nature, for that this firft inclinatio to liue toge- 
 ther (wherof al thos other things do (pring) is 
 of nature, as hath bin declared. 
 
 Out of this,is the (econd poynt before men- That go- 
 tioned deduced , to wir ^ that gouerment alfo, "uj^i^ 
 fuperiority,& iurifdidion ofmagiftrats^is hke- ^ion of 
 wife of nature^ for that it foUowerh of the ^^^5% 
 former.and femge that it is impoflible for men alfo of 
 10 hue together with help and commodity of*^^'"^^* 
 
 the onc,to the other, except ther be fome ma- , ^' 
 
 n. L * J - 1- -1 Neccffity. 
 
 geltrat or other to Kepe order amog them,witli- 
 
 out which order ther is nothing els to be hoped 
 for as lob fa^ycth^but horror and cofufwriy as for ex- ^ 
 amplc,wher-foeuer a multitude is gathered to- 22. 
 gether,ifther benotfometo reprelTe the info- 
 lent, to aflift the impotent, reward ihevertuous^ 
 chaften theoutragious and minifter fomekind 
 of iuftice and equality vnro the inhabitants : 
 fher lining together would be farr more hurt- 
 ful 'he rher huing a funder,for that one would 
 confume and deuour the other, and fowe fee, 
 tl.ac vpponliuing together foUoweth of ne- 
 
 C ceflity 
 
^ A Cmfcrence touching fucccpon 
 ceffity fome kind of lunfdidion in Magiftrat^^ 
 and for thac the former is of nature , the other 
 alfo is of nature. 
 2. Al which is confitmed alfo by the confent & 
 Confcnt vfe ofal nations through-out the world, which 
 acero^n! confentjCicerocalleth,//?/;^^ v(?ce?w natu^ 
 
 i.denatu r^c the voice of nature hericlfc: for therwas nc- 
 laDcoiu. uer yet nation found ether of ancient tyme or 
 nowinourdayes, by thedifcouety of ihe In- 
 dies, or els where , among whom men lining 
 together, had not fome kind of Mageftrate or 
 ?• fuperior/o gouerne them, which euidentlyde- 
 ^^"^^ clareth that this poynt of Magellrates is alfo of 
 nature,and fiom god that created natu re,which 
 poynt our ciuillaw doth prone in likemanner 
 in the very beginingof ourdigeftes, vvher the 
 Lib.i.di- fecod title of the fir (t booke is^de origtnemU ciui^ 
 lis & omnium magejlramm y of the begining of 
 theciuil law and of al mageftrates which begi- 
 ning is referred to this firft principle, of natural 
 I. inftindt and Gods inftitntion : And laft of al^ 
 Scripture, that God did concurr alfo exprefiy vvith this 
 inftind: of nature, our diuines do proue by 
 cleareteftimony of holy fcripture, as when 
 Rom */ ^^'^'^ Salomon, bjme kings do raigne, and 
 
 om.13. ^ p^yjg to the Romans auoucheth,r/7^r 
 
 tj is not hut of God and t her fore he f^huh refijieth au- 
 thority refijteth Gorf.Which is to be vnderftood of 
 authority power or iurifdiftion in itfelfe, ac- 
 cording to the firft inftitution, as alfo when it 
 is lawfully laid vppo any perfon, for otherwifc 
 vyhen it is ether wrongfully taken orvniuftly 
 
 vfed. 
 
tothecrdpi^ne. Tart i. Cap. I. ^ 
 vfed, it may berefiftedindiuerscafesas afreu 
 Vvards more in particulei;^halbe declared , for 
 then it i$ not law* ful authoiity. 
 
 Thes two poy nts then arc of nature, to wit, 
 the common w-ealth^ and goucrment of the fa- 
 me by magiftrates^but what kind ofgouermec 
 ech common wealth vvil haue^ whether Dmo- p^^-g^i^ 
 ^r^//*^ which IS popular gouerment by the peo- forme of 
 pie it fclfe^as Athens, Thebes, and many other 
 cyties of Greece had in old tyme, &: as the Can - 
 tons of Swizers at this day haue: or els Arifto- 
 cratia which is the gouerment of fome certay- 
 nechofen number of the beft, as the Romans 
 many yeares were gonerned by Confuls and 
 fcnators,and at this day the ftatcs of this coun* 
 trey of Holland do imitate the fame, or els Mo- 
 narchia which is the regiment of one, and this 
 agayneeyther of an Emperor, King, Duke, 
 Earleorthe like: thes particuler formes of go- 
 uerment (I fay) are not determyned by God or 
 nature, as the other two poyntes before/for the 
 they f hould beal one in al nations as the other 
 arCjfeing God and nature are one to al as often 
 harh bin faid) but thes particuler formes arc 
 left vntoeuery nation and countrey to chufe 
 that forme of gouerment, which they f hal like 
 befl:,and think mod fit for the natures and con* 
 ditions of their people, which Ariftotle pro- Arift.ii.*^ 
 ueth through out al the fecond and fourth boo- P^^"' 
 kes of his politiques very largly laying downc 
 diueis kinds ofgouermcnts in his dayes, as na- 
 mely m Greece that of the Miledans , Lacede- 
 C 2 monians. 
 
to A CmfermtUuchingfucce^m 
 monianSjCandians, and others, and fhev^ving 
 the caufes of their differences, which he attri* 
 buteth to the diuerfity of mens natures , cafto- 
 nies, educations and other fiich canfes that 
 made them make choi(e of fuchor fiich forme 
 ofgouermcnc. 
 l>iucrfidc And this might be proued alfo by infinit 
 meiriti other examples both of tymes paft and prefenr, 
 diuetsco- and in al nations andcountryes both chriftian 
 andotherwi(e,whichhaue not had only difFe- 
 rct fafiions of goucrmets the one fro the other, 
 but euen among themfelues at one tyme, one 
 forme of gouerment>and an other at other ty* 
 Komc. mes: for the Romans firfthad Kings and after 
 reieding them for their euil gouerment , they 
 chofeConfuls, which were two goaernours 
 forcueryycare,vvhofe^uthority yet they limi- 
 ted by a multitude of fenators, which were of 
 their counfel, and thes mens power, vvas re- 
 ftrayned alfo by adding tribunes, of the people, 
 and fome ty me didators, and finally they came 
 to be gouerned laft of al by Emperors. 
 Africa & The like might be faid of Carihage in Afri- 
 Grccce. many cityes and common wealthes of 
 
 Greece,whichindiuersfeafons andvppon di- 
 ners caufeshaue taken different formes of go- 
 uerment to themfelues. 
 italic. The like we fee in Europe at this day, for in 
 only Italyc what different formes of gouerment 
 haue you? Naples hath akinge for their foue- 
 rainc,Rome the pope,and vnder him one fena- 
 lor in place of lu many as were wont to be in 
 
 that 
 
tothecrd^ne. Tart i. Cap. L ii 
 that common wealth. Venice and Genoa, 
 haue fenators & Dukes^bur litle authority haue 
 iher Dukes. Florence^ Farara,Maniua, Parma, 
 Vrbin and Sauoy,haue their Dukes only with- 
 out fenators, and there power is abfoIut.Milan 
 was once a kingdom but now a Dukedom, 
 the like is of Burgundy^Lorayne, Bauire Gafco- Dukes for 
 ny^andBritaynetheleffer, al which once had|^JJ|^^^^ 
 their diftind kings,and now haiie Dukes ^ for dukes, 
 their fupremegouernours. Thehke maybe 
 faidofal Germany that many yrares together 
 had one king ouer al, which nowis deuided 
 into fo many Dukedomes, Earldomes & other 
 like titles of fupreme Princes. 
 
 But the contrary is of Caftile, Aragon, Por- 
 tugal,Barcelona,and orher kingdomes this day 
 in Spay ne,which were firft earldomes only and spayne. 
 afterDukedomes, and then kingdomes, and 
 nowagaynearealvnderone Monarchy, The 
 likeisof Boemeand Polonia which were bati^oeme, 
 Dukedomes in old tyme, and now are kingdo-^^^**^^ 
 mes. The likemay be faidofprancealfoafter 
 the expulfion of the Romans, which was firft 
 a monarchy jvnder Pharamond their firft king^ 
 and (b continued for many yeares vnder Clo- 
 dion^Merouys Childrik and Clodouseus ther 
 firft chriftened kings, but after they deuided it 
 into fower kingdomes, to wit one of Paris an 
 other of Sueflons , the third of Orleans, and 
 the fourth of Metts, and fo it continued for di- 
 uers yeares 5 but yet afterwards they made it 
 one monarchy agayne. 
 
 C } England 
 
1% A Conference touching fuccefwn 
 EngUnd. England alfo was firft a monarc h yvnder the 
 Briraynes^and then aprouince vndcr the Ro- 
 mans^and after chat deuided into fea«en king- 
 domes at once vnder the Saxons, and now a 
 monarchy agaynevnder the Inglifh and althis 
 by Godspermiffion,and approbation, who in 
 token therof,futFred his owne peculier people 
 Thcic- alfo of Ifrael to be vnder diners manners of 
 ci^in gonermcnrsindiuerstymes, as firft vnder Pa- 
 triarques Abraham Jfaac and lacob.then vnder 
 Lib.Exo. Captaynesas MofeSjIofuaj and the like, then 
 tib. lob. vnder indues as OthonieL Aiod J and Gedion, 
 
 Lib Id 
 
 j-ib!i then vnder high Prieftes, as Helyjand Samuel, 
 Reg. then vnder kings as Saul, Dauid and the reft; 
 
 & then vndcr captain^s & highe prieftsagayne 
 cilab Zorobabel Judas Machabeus,&: his brethren, 
 vntil the gcuerment was laftely taken from 
 them, and they brought vnder the power of 
 the Romans , and foiiaine kinges appoynted 
 by them. 
 
 The real- So as of al this , ther can be no doubt, but 
 fctVhcr ^^^^ common wealth hath power to chufe 
 formeof their owne fiffion ofgouerment, as alfo to 
 jouermet change the fame vppon refonable caufes, as 
 wefeetheyhaue done in al tymes and coun- 
 trycs,andGod no doubt approueih what the 
 realme determineth in this poynt, for otherwife 
 nothing could be certaine for that of thes 
 changes doth depend ai that hath fucceedcd 
 fythens. 
 
 In like manner,is it euident,that as the com- 
 mon wealth hath this authority to chufe and 
 
 chaing 
 
tothecron^ne. Tart i. Cap. I. 15 
 change hergouermenc, fo hath fhe alfbtoli- 
 mite the fame with what lawes and condi- 
 tions fhe pleaferh, wherof cnfuefh the great 
 diuerliry of authority and power . which cchThecom- 
 oneoftheforniergouermentshath 5 as ^^^^^'^.^^^ijjj 
 ample, the Confiils of Rome were but for onemiteth 
 yeare s other officers and Ma^eftrates were^^^g®- 
 tor more, or leile ty me, as their commo wealth author!- 
 didaiort them i The Dukes of Venice at rhis^y- 
 day are for their hues {"except in certayne cafes , 
 wherin they may bedepofed) & thos of Genua 
 only for two years and their power ("as I haue 
 faid) is very fmal and much limited, and their 
 heyreshauenoclaymc or pretence at al after 
 them to that dignity, as the children and next 
 of kinne of other Diikes of Italy haue, though 
 in different fort alfo: forthat the Dukedomes 
 of Ferara, Vrbin and Parma are limited only to 
 heyres male,andford<:fe(?ctherof toreturne to 
 the pope or Sea of Rome, Florence and Man- 
 tua for like defects are toreturne to the empire 
 and do not paflTe to the heyrj>femal or to the 
 next of kynne as Sauoy and fome others do. 
 
 And now if wercfpedt God and nature^ as 
 wcl, might al thes goueiments follow one 
 laW,asfo different, forthat neyther God nor 
 nature prefcribeth any ofihcs particuler for-^ 
 mes, but concurreth with any that the comon 
 wealth it fclfe appoynteth, and fo it is to be be* 
 leued^ that God and nature concurred as wel 
 with Italy when it had but one Prince, as now 
 when it hadifomany, and the like withGor- 
 C 4 many. 
 
14 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 many^and ihe litce alfo with Swizerlad, which 
 once was one common wealth only vnderrhe 
 dukes and Marquefes of Auftria and now arc 
 deuided into thirtene Cantons or common 
 W^ealthes vnder populer Mageftratcs of their 
 owne,ashath bin faid: fo as when men ralke of 
 A Nam- a natural Prince or natural fucceffor (as many ty m es 
 r^Piin- J j^^y^ j^^j-j rhe word V fed) if it be vnderftpod 
 of one that is born^ within the fame Realme or 
 countrey and fo of our owne natural blood , it 
 hath fome (enfe, though he may be both good 
 orbadd, (and none hath bin worfe or more 
 cruel many tymes then home borne Princes:^ 
 but if it be ment as though any Prince had his 
 particuler gouermenr or intereft to fucceed by 
 inftitutio of nature,it is rediculous,for that na* 
 cure giueth it not as hath bin declared, but the 
 particuler conftitufion of euery comon wealth 
 with-in it felfe, and fo much for this firft poynt 
 whichmuft be the ground to althereft that I 
 hauctofay. 
 
 OF THE 
 
totheatr^ne. Van i. Cap. II. 15 
 
 OF THE FORME OF 
 
 MONARCHIES AND KINGDO- 
 
 MES IN PARTICVLER, AND THE DIF^ 
 
 jerent la'jijes, 'Di^herhy they are to he obteyned hoU 
 denandgouermdtn dyuers countms accor- 
 dinger eche commonlvealth hath 
 chofen & ejtabltfhed. 
 
 C A P. 11. 
 
 AL that hitherto hath bin fpoken, hnth 
 appertayned to al princely and fupreme 
 gouerment in general , but now for 
 that our matter in queftion ^ is concer- 
 ning the fuccefiion to a kingdome, good rea- 
 fon that we fhould reduce our fpeech vnto 
 this forme of gouerment in paiticuler. 
 
 Firft of al then^is to be confidered, that of a] a monar- 
 other formes ofgouermenc the monarchy of a^^^^^^ 
 king in it fcll-e^ appeareth to be the moll: exceU ucimuit. 
 lent and perfect ^ and fo do hold not only Ari* 
 ftotle in his fornamed bookes of pollitiques, Sc 
 namely in his third ("with this only condicion 
 that hegouernc by lawesj but Seneca alfoand 
 Plutarch in his morales & namely in thatfpe- Arift.li.4. 
 cial treatife w her-in he difcufleth, an feni ^^^^ncw^' 
 jReJpub:traclanday whether an old man ought to piutaich. 
 takevppon him the gouerment of a common 
 wealth or no : wher he faith that^ regnum inter 
 omnes rejpub: confumatipma & prima eft, a kingdo- 
 mc is the moft peifedt com.mon weahh,among 
 al other, & the vcty Bid: that is to fay^the molt 
 
 C / perfedt 
 
J 6 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 perfect for that ic hath mofl: commodities and 
 leaft inconueniences in it felfr, of any other 
 gouerment, and it is the fitft of al other , for 
 that al people commOiily made their choife at 
 ihebcginmgofthiskindofgouerment , fo as 
 of al other it is moll ancient, for fo vve read 
 Thcanti- that among the Syrians Mcdes, andPerfians 
 Moiiar^ their firft gouei nours were kings and when the 
 chy. children oflfraeldidafke a kynge at the hands 
 ofSamuel, which was a thoufand yeares be- 
 t.Reg.s. fore the commingof Chrift> they alleaged for 
 one rcafon that al nations round about them 
 had kings for their goiiernours, and at the very- 
 fame tyme^ the chiefeft cyties and commoa 
 wealths of Greece , as the lacedemonians, 
 Athenians,Corinthians,and others^whcrof di- 
 uers afterwards tooke other gouerments vnto 
 themfelues, for theabufesin kingly gouermec 
 committed, at that tymeyvere gouerned by 
 ^DionyC kings as at large proueth Dyonifius Halicar-. 
 Hiiy 1. 5. nadeus, Cornelius Tacitus, Cicero & others. 
 rraU. j. The Romans alfo began with kings as be-, 
 i^offic^ forel hauenoted,andthereafonof this is, for 
 ^' that as oar Chriftiandodlors do gather, (efpe- 
 jj^^PQjjj J ciallyiy.Hiai^m'and S.ChnfoJlome) this kind of 
 i.cpift.ii goLicrment rcfemblerh mod of al the gouer- 
 ho^3^^' nicntofGod, that is but one: it reprefenteth 
 the excellency of one fbnne that lightneth al 
 the plannets , of one fonle in the body that go^ 
 ucrneth al the powers and members therof,and 
 finally they fhewitalfoto be moft conforme 
 vnto nature, by example of the bees which do. 
 
 choofe 
 
tothecYo^ne. Tart i. Cap. II. 17 
 
 clioofevnto themfeluesa kinge, and do liuc 
 vnder a monarchy as the moft excellrnteft of al 
 other gouerments, to which purpofe alfo I ha- 
 ue hard alleaged fomty mes by d/uers thofc wor- 
 dcs of S.Perer. Subtelti efioteommhuntarjd^ creatu- ijet.i. 
 r(t propter Deum.fwe regi quafi precellenti:fiue ductbrn 
 abeo mifis,&c. Be you fiibied: of eucry humane 
 creature, for Gods caufe, whether it be to a 
 king,as the moft excellent, or to Dukes fent by 
 God for thepunif hment of euil men and prai- 
 fe of the ^ood. Out of which wordes fomedo 
 Bote two pointSjfirft that as one theon^ fide the 
 Apoftle doth plainely teach that the magiftra^ 
 tes authority is from God,by his fiift inftitutio^ po^Jtes 
 in that hefayeih, vve muft befubied to them tobcno- 
 for Gods caufe,fb on the other fide,he calleth it 
 a humane creature or a thing created by man, for 
 that by mans free choife this particuler forme 
 of gouerment (as alorher alfo) is appoynted in 
 euerycommon wealth, as before hath bin de- 
 clared:: and that by raanseledionand confent, 
 thefameis laydvppopfome particuler man or 
 woman, according to the lawes of cuery coun- 
 trey, al which maketh it rightly to be called 
 both a humane creature, and yet from God. 
 
 The fccond poynt which diuers do note out jj^^^ 
 of thes wordesjis^that S. Peter calleth a kingS.Pecct 
 moft excellent, which thoughe it may be vn-^f^^^^^^ 
 derftood in rcfped of the Dukes authority, cxceUcnc. 
 wherof immediatlytherfolloweth mentioryet 
 may it fecmealfoto be taken and verified of 
 fcingly authority in refped of al other goucr- 
 
 ments. 
 
i8 A Conference tauchingfuccepm 
 ments, Teing that at thistyme when the Apoftle 
 wrote this epiftle, the chicfegoucrnour of the 
 World, was not called king but emperour, and 
 theifoie Teing in fuch a tyme S. Peter affirmeih 
 theftate of kingly goueiment to be moft ex- 
 cellent, it may feme he meant it abfoluily fig-, 
 nifyingthevby that this is ihebcft kind of go-, 
 uerment among al others, though to confefle 
 the truth betvvene the title of king and Empe- 
 ror ther is litle or no difference in fubftance^i 
 bur only in name, for that the ^authority is 
 equal, euery king is an Emperor in his owne 
 kingdome* 
 
 And finally the excellency of this gouerment 
 aboue al other, is not only proued by the perfe- 
 ction iherofin it felfe, as for that it is moft an- 
 ' cicntfimpleand conformevntonature,;S^ moft 
 refembhng the gouerment of God himrelfe,as 
 hath bin faid, but by iheeffedsalfo and vtility 
 vtiiitesthac it bringeth vnto thefubieds, with farr 
 domeand ^^^'^ inconuenicnces then any other forme of 
 inconue- gouerment what-foeuer if we compare them 
 ofot^hcr together: for in the monarchy of one king, 
 gouer- ther is more vnity ,agreement,and conformity, 
 xnemcs. therby alfo celerity commonly in di{pa- 
 chingof bufines, and in defending the comon 
 wealth, then vvher many headesberleffe paf- 
 fionsalfo, in one man then in many : as for ex- 
 ample in Democratta.vsihitT the common people 
 do beare the cheife fway, which is beUuA mnlto-^' 
 Ciccrol.i rum capitum as Cicero wifely faid^ihat is, a beaft; 
 mocrauV. of many hcadcs^ ther is nothing but fedition^ 
 
 trouble. 
 
tothecrotme. Van i. Cap. II. 19 
 trouble^tumuItSjOutrages, and iniuftices com- 
 tnitted vppon euery litle occallon, efpecially 
 vvher crafty and conningmen maybe admit- 
 ted to incenfe or afluage them v^ith fugred 
 vvords/iich as were the Orators in Athens, and 
 othercyiiesofGreece^thathad thisgouermcr, 
 and the Tribunes of the people of Rome, and 
 other fuch populer and plaufible men, who 
 could mouethe vvaues 5 rayfe vp the windes, 
 andinkindle the fierofthe vulgar peoples af- 
 fedions^paffions or furies at their pleafiire^ by 
 %vhich vvefeethat ofaloth^r common weal- 
 thcs, thefe of populer goucrment,haue fooneft 
 cometorume, which might be f hewed not 
 only by old examples of Greec, Afia,and Afri- 
 ca, but alfo of many cytics in Italy, as Florence, 
 Bolonia^SienajPifa, Arezzo, Spoleto, Perugia, 
 Padua and others, which vppon the fall or di- {^er^Ta:- 
 minution of the Roman Empire (vnder v^hich mcnt m 
 they were before) rooke vnto themfelues po-^^^^* 
 puler gouerments, wherin they were Co tofled 
 with continual fedition, mutines, and bading 
 of fa(5tions , as they could neuer hane ende 
 therof, vntil after infinite murthers maflacres 
 and inundatiojof blood, they came in the ende 
 to be vnder the monarchy of fome one Prince 
 or other, as at this day they remay ne; fo that of 
 al other gouerments this is the worft. 
 
 The (econd forme , which is called Oligar- 
 chiaor Ariftocratia (for that a few and thofc 
 prefumed to be the beft, are ioyned together in cEatia*f 
 authority) as it doth participate fome thinge 
 
 of both 
 
zo A Conference touching fuccefton 
 
 of both the other gouermets, to wit, ofmona?- 
 chia and Democratia, or racher tempereih 
 them both: fo hath it both good and euil in it: 
 but ycc irsclineth more to the euil, for rh€ 
 difiinion that commonly by mans infirmity & 
 malice, is among thosheades, for which caiifc 
 the ftares before named of Venice and Genua, 
 vvhichwere wont to haue fimply this gpucr- 
 mcnt of Ariftocratia^ in that their regiment 
 wasbycertainechofe (enators,wereinforced in 
 the end, tochufe Dukes airo,asheadc<; of their 
 fenates,forauoydingofdi(lention,andfo they 
 haue them at this day , though their authority 
 be but fmale as hath bin faid. 
 
 We fee alfo by the examples o( Carthage & 
 Romewhergouermentof Ariftoeratia ^ tooke 
 place^that the diuifion and factions among ihef 
 ' fenators of Carthage,was the cau fe why aydc 
 
 Tit.Iitt. and fuccor was not fent to Hanibal^ their Cap- 
 taine in Italy after his fo great and important 
 
 E tr 1 ^^^^^y Cannas which was the very caufe 
 rop. . ^j^^ fauing of the Roman Empire , and the 
 
 orof.l. 5. Jq{]^ Qf their owne. As alfo afccrwardcs the 
 emulations, difcord, and difunion,ofthe Ro- 
 m,an fenators, among themfelucs in the affai- 
 res and contentions of Marius andSilla, and 
 of Pompey and Cefar, was the occafionofal 
 their defl:ru£tion &of their common wealth 
 with them. 
 
 Euidentthen itis, that of al other goucr- 
 ments the monarchy is the bcft, & Icaft fubiedt 
 to the inconueuiences that other gouerments 
 
 haue^ 
 
tothecrol^ne. Vart i. Cap. II. ti 
 
 )haue^an(l if the prince that gouerneth alone & 
 iiath fuprcme authority to himfelfe, as he rc- 
 fembleth God in this poynte of fole goiiermet, J^^^^^^^ 
 fo could hcreftmblehimairo, in wife, difcretiiawcsbc 
 and iuftgoucrmenr^and in ruling without P^^-^^^^® 
 fion: no doubt,but that nothing more excellent 
 in the world could be defired for the prefccfl fi- 
 licityof his fubie^Sts : but for that a king or 
 Piinceisnman as others be, and therby not 
 only fubied to errors in iudgmcnr^ but alfo, to 
 pafnonat affcdions in his wil ; for this caufe, it 
 was neceflary that the commonwealth, as it 
 gaue him this great power ouer them , fo it 
 fhould aCTigne him alfo the heft helpes that 
 might be,for directing and recflify ing both his 
 Wil and iudgment^ and make him therin as like 
 in gouerment toGod,whom he reprcfenteth^as 
 mans fraylty can reach vnto. 
 
 For this confideration they afljgned to him 
 firftofal, ihcafliftance and diredhion of law,- 
 wherby togouerne, vvhichlawAriftotle faith. 
 Bji mens qu<zdam nullo perturbata ajfeclu , it is a cer- Arift. 1.3. 
 tayne rnynde difquieted with no difbrdinateP^^-^- v^^* 
 afFedtioHjasmensmyndes commonly be, for 
 that when a law is made, for the moft part, it is 
 madevppon dew confideration and delibera- 
 tion , and without perturbation of euil afFe- 
 Aions, as anger, enuy, hatred, rafhnes, orthc 
 likepafllons, and it is referred to fome good 
 end and commodity of the common wealth, 
 which law, being once made, remayneth fo 
 ftil without alteration,or partial afFedio, being 
 
 indifferent 
 
li A Conference touching fuccefm 
 
 indifFerent to al and partial to none,buc relleth 
 one tale to euery man , & in this it refembleth 
 the pcrfedion as it were of God himfelfe , for 
 the which caufe the (aid philofopher in the fa- 
 me place, addeth a notable wife layng, to wit, 
 fa^in " ^^^^^ ^f^ich lopeth a Ui^ togouerne It^tth the Pr/»- 
 AriftT"! ce.ioymh God to the Prince , bt4t he that toyneth to the 
 Fol.c.iz. Prince his ajfeclion to gouerne, toyneth a beafi: for that 
 mens affections and concupilcenfes are com- 
 mon alfo tobeaft:es:fo that a Prince ruling by 
 law is more then a man^or a man deifyed^aud a 
 Prince ruling by affedlions, is le0e then a man, 
 or a manbrutified. In an other place alfo the 
 fame philpfopher fayeth that a Prince that 
 leaucthlaw and ruleih himfelfe & others by 
 Af'ift.Li. hisowne appetite andafFecftions , of al creatu-* 
 rol.c.i. ^ ^jj^ y^^yji ^j^^i y^^jj^ ^ ^fj^ ^^^^jj. ^^Yious and 
 
 rf^w^Wf^/or that nothing is fo oucragious, as 
 iniuftice armed , and no aimor is fo ftrong, 
 aswitt and authority, wherofihe firft he hath 
 in that heis a man, and the other in that he is a 
 Prince. 
 
 Diucrs For this caufe then al common wealthes ha- 
 pro^ctie^ ueprcfcribedlawcsvnto their Princes, to go- 
 of U- uernetherby, as by a moll excellent, certaync 
 t& immutable rule, to which fcnfe Cicero, faid 
 Cic.iib.2. leges funt inuent(Zvt omnibus femper vna & eade^n 
 voce loquercntur , lawcs were inuented to the 
 ende,they fhould fpeake in one and the felfe 
 fame fenfcjtoal men. For which very reafon in 
 lykemanercheslawes haue bin called by Phi- 
 lufopheis a rule orfquarc, inflexible, and by 
 
 Atiftotl^ 
 
tothecroT)^ne. Tart Cap. II. ly 
 Ariftotlein particular a mynde without paf- 
 (ion, as hath bin faid , but the Prophet Dauid 
 who was alfo a Prince & king, fcmcth to calit 
 by the name of Difcipline, for that as difcipline Lawb 
 doth kcepc al the partes of a man or of a parti- 
 culer houfe in order 3 fo law vvel mini(1:rcd, vvcaic pu 
 kcepeihal the partes of a common wealth in biiqufc. 
 good order 3 and to ( heow how feuercly God 
 exad:eth this at al Princes handes, he fayth the- 
 fe wordes. And no^ learne ye hinges and be wftrU" ^^^^-^^ 
 fled jou that iudge the ^orld: feme God in f ear e and 
 re'wyfemhtm'vp'ttb trembling, embrace ye difcivltm, 
 kajt he enter into'^rath ^ and [0 ye peri fh from the 
 T^fdy of right eou(nes. Which wordcs being vtte- 
 red, by a prophet and king do conteynediucrs 
 poynts of much cofideration, for this purpofe: 
 as firft, that kings and Prince are bound to 
 learne law and difciphne^ and fecondly to ob- 
 ferue thefame with great humihty and fcare 
 ofGods wrath,and thirdly lhatif they do nat, 
 they ( hal perifh fro the way of rightcoiifnes, 
 as though the greateft plage of al to a Prince 
 Weareiolofethe way of rigbteoufnes, law,and 
 reafon in hisgouerment, and to giuehimfclfe 
 puertopaflion^and hisowne vvil wberby they 
 are fuer to come to f hipwrack, and thus much 
 of -the firft helpe. 
 
 The fecond help that commoa ^'^^^^^^^ ^.j^eCo" 
 haue giuen to their kings and Princes efpecial- ceL ot 
 ly in later ages , hath bin certayne councclles ^-'»Eces,a 
 and councellors with whom to confult in mat- ^calp. 
 tersof moft importance , as we fee theparla- 
 
 D ments. 
 
^4 ^^onfcmceto^^ 
 ments, of Ingland and France, the courtesin 
 Spayne and diers in Geimany, without which 
 no matter of great moment can be conckided, 
 , andbefidcs this commonly euery king hath 
 his priuy counccl, whom he is bound to heare, 
 and this was done to temper fomv\ hat the ab- 
 folutefotmeof a Monarchy w-ho(e danger is 
 by reafonof his fole authority , to fal into ti- 
 Arift.1.4. ranny as Ariftotle wifely notcth, in his fourth 
 ?oU. 10. booke of politiques, ( hewing the inconenien- 
 ce or dangers of this gouerment: which is the 
 caufcihac vvehauefew or no fimple monar- 
 chies now in the world^efpecially amongChri- 
 ftiansjbut al are mixt lightely with diuers poin- 
 tes of the other two formes of gouerment alfo. 
 The mo. and namely in Inglandal three do enter more 
 J^^j]['^^ orlefre,forinthatther i king orQueene, 
 tcpcred. it is a monarchy: in that it hath certaync coun- 
 celles which muft be hard: it participateth of 
 Ariftocratia, and in that the commonalty haue 
 theirvoicesand burgeflcs in parlament, it ta- 
 keih part alfo of Democratia, or populer go- 
 uerment, al which limitations of the Princes 
 abfolute authority, as you fee,docome for the 
 common wealth, as hauing authority aboue 
 their Princes for their reftraint to the good of 
 the realme , as more at large fhalbe proueci 
 hereafter* 
 
 ftraintsoV Fromhke authority and for like confidera* 
 kingly po tions haue come the limitations of other kings 
 ^2^^^°/^ and kingly power in al tymes and countries, 
 from the beginning^both touching themfclues 
 
 and their 
 
tothecro'^ne. tart i. Cap. 11. ij 
 and their pofteriry and fucccfibrs asbreefly in / 
 thisphcci fhal declare* 
 
 And firftofal^ if we vvil confider the two 
 mofc lenoumed and allowed ftates of al the 
 world I meane of the Romans and Giccians, 
 we fh.il finde that both of them began vvirh 
 kmgs^but yet with far different lawes and re- 
 ftrninis ^abotit their authority es: for in Rome ^^^^^ 
 the kings that fucceded Romulus, their firft Kings, 
 foundcr^had as great and abfolute authority as 
 ourshaue now' adayes^ but yet their children 
 or next in blood fucceded them not of necefli- 
 ty,but new kings were chofen partly by the fe- 
 nace, and partly by the people, as Titus Liuius^|^*J^^'^* 
 teftifieth, fo as of three mofl: excellent kings 
 that enfewed immcdiatly after Romulus , to 
 witj N«w^ TompilttsSyTuUius Hophus, & Tarqnirm 
 TrifcHS^ none of them were of the blood royal 
 nor of kyn the one to the othcr,no nor yet Ro- 
 mans borne, but chofen rather from among 
 ftramgers/or their venue and valor 5 and that 
 byeledion of the fenate and confent of the 
 people* 
 
 In Greece, and namely among the I acede- Grecian 
 monians which was the moll enivnent kine-^^^^* 
 dom among others at that ry me, the fucceflion 
 of children after their fathers was more certay- 
 ne,btu yet as Ariftorle noteth,ther authority & Arift.H.i. 
 power was fo rcftray ned by certayne of?icers of pjuffj^ch? 
 the people named Ephori (which commonly »»^Ly. 
 werefiue in number) as they were not only 
 checked and chaftined by them,if occalion fcr- 
 D 2 ued^but 
 
z6 A Cmfemce touching fuccepim 
 uedjbutalfo depriuedand feme tymes put to 
 death : for which caufe the (aid philolbpher 
 did iuftly millike this emyhent iaiifdicJlion of 
 the EphorijOuer their kings: but yet hereby wc 
 fee what authority thecommon wealth had in 
 this cafe, and what their meaning was in ma* 
 king lawes and reftrayning their kings power, 
 to wit^ therby the more to binde them to do 
 iufticc^which Cicero in his offices vttererh in 
 Ciclib.i. ^hes vvordcs. lujiitu fruendd^ caufii aptdmaiores 
 offic. mJlYos &in Afia&in Europa bene mouti reges ohm 
 ^[^^ funt conjiitut't.&c. at cum irndquabile vuo viro 
 ncd^b"^' cmfequerenturjnucnufunt leges. Good 
 
 yv€s/ kings were appoynted in old tyme among our 
 anceftors in Aha and Europe to the end therby 
 to obtey ne iuftice, but when men could not ob-^ 
 teync equal iuftice at one mans handes^ they 
 inuented lawes. 
 
 The fame reafon yealdeth the fame philofo- 
 pher in an other place, not only of the firftin- 
 . ftitntion of kingdomes, but alfo of the chaingc 
 therofagayne into other goucrments, when 
 de^i^^V' ihes were abu fed. Omnes unt'tqud gentes regibus 
 hus. quondam parmunt^&c. T h at is, al old nations 
 did line vnder kmgdomes at the beginning, 
 ^, which kind of goucfment fiift theygaue vnto 
 the moft iuft,and wifcft men^which they could 
 finde, and alio after for loue of them^they gaue 
 the fame to tlieir pofterity or next in kynne, as 
 3, now alfo it remayneth vvher kingly gouer- 
 5, ment is in vfc: but other countries which liked 
 ,i not that forme of gouerracnt,and hauefhaken 
 
iothecrol^ne. Vart i. Cap. II. 27 
 
 It 6f>haiie done it not that they wilnot be vn-,,' 
 derany^biitfoi that they wilnot beeuervnder,, 
 one only. 3, 
 
 Th is far Cicero, and he fpeakeih this prin- ^^^^^ 
 cipally in defence of his owne commo wealth laogijr ^» 
 I meane the Roman, which had caft of ^h^^ "^^ic^ 
 kinde of gouerment,as before hath bin faid,for inkomc, 
 the offence they had taken agaynft cerrayne 
 kings of thers, andfirftof al, ^gTiyn^ RomuUfS 
 himfelfc their firft founder, for reigning at his 
 pleafure without law 5 as TttmLtutus leftifieth, Tjttjs tf. 
 for which caufe the fcnators at length 
 him,andcuthim in fmalpeces. And afterwards 
 they were greatly greeued at the cntring of 
 Seruitis r////m5,their fixt king, for that he gatethc 
 crowne by fraude and not by clecJiion of the 
 fenate^and fpecial approbarion of the people, 
 as he fhould hauedone: bur nioft of al they 
 were exafperated by the proceeding of their ie- 
 uenth kinge named Lucius Tdrquinm , furnamed 
 iheproud, who for that (as faith) he nC'^Lswm 
 gleftedthe lawesof gouerment prefcribed to*^*^^' 
 him by the common wealth, as namely in that 
 he confulted not with the fenate in matters 
 of great importance, & for that he made war & 
 peace of his owne head & for that he appoy nted 
 tohimillfea gard as though he had miftrufted 
 thepeople, andforthathe did vfeiniuftice to 
 diners parriculer men^ and fufFred his children 
 tobeinfolcnt, he was expelled with alhispo- 
 fterity and the gouerment of Rome changed 
 from a kingdome vnto the regiment of con- 
 
 D } fuls. 
 
i8 A Confemce touching fucccpon 
 : fuls,afterrwo hundreth yeares that the other 
 had endured. 
 
 And thus much for thofc kingdomes of Iraly 
 and Greece: And if likewile we wil looke vp- 
 Rcftraints po^^^^her kingdomes of Europe, we fhalfec 
 ofking. the very famCjto wit, that euery kingdome &c 
 ^^p^^ countrey hath his paniculer lawes prcfcnbed 
 to their kings by the common vveahh, both 
 for their gouermenc, authority, and (licceffion 
 in the fame:for if we behold the Roma Empire 
 it felfe , as it is at this day annexed to the Ger- 
 maine eledors, though it be the firft in dignity 
 amongchriftian Princes, yet fhal we fee it (o 
 reftrayned by particuler lawes, as the Emperor 
 can do much lelle in his rtate, then other tings 
 in theirs,for he can nether make vvarr nor ex- 
 a6t any contribution of men, or money, ther- 
 unto, but by the free Icaue and conftnt ofal 
 the dates of the Germayne diet or parlamcnr, 
 and for his children or next in kynn,they haue 
 noadion, intereft or pretence acal tofucced 
 in their fathers dignity, but only by free eledio, 
 if they (halbe thought worthy: Nay one of the 
 chiefeft poynts that the Emperor muftfwearc 
 Slcydan at his entrance , as Sleydan writeth , is this. 
 An *i532 ^^"^^ f^^^^ neuergo about to make the dignity of the 
 ' Emperor peculiar or hereditary to his family , but leaue 
 Blend. Di '^'^^^ ^he feuen electors free in their po^ver , to chafe 
 cid.zAi 3 his fuccejfor y according to the Iw^made by the pope 
 cap.is. * G'^^gory the f }f th , and the Emperor Charles the fourth 
 in this behalfe. 
 
 The 
 
to the ctd^ne. Part t. Cap. 11* 
 
 ofPolonia& Boemiadogo^^^^sjo: 
 much after rhe fame fafhion, both for there re-poloma 
 ftrainte of power^and fiicceffion ro their kings. 
 For filft couching chdr authoiity , they haue 
 great hmitation^nether can they do any thing 
 ofgreat moment, without the confentoFcer-pj^j^j^P^j 
 tayne principal men called Palatines or CafteKH.s.hift. 
 lans, nether may their children or next of blood cfo°mc- 
 fuccede except they be cholen. as in the Em- lib. j. 
 
 ^- ^ Hift^Po- 
 P^re. Ion, 
 
 InSpayne,France^and Ingland, thepriuile- 
 ges of kings are far more eminent in both thes 
 points, for that both iheir authority is much 
 nioreabfolute,and their next in blood doordi- 
 narily fuccede^but yet in different manner: for 
 as touching authority it femeth that the kings ^.^ 
 ofSpaync and France, haue greater then thefpay^e^ 
 king of England, for that euery ordination of^^uncc 
 ihes two kings, is law in it felfe, without fur-gfa^jj^' 
 iher approbatjo of the common wealth^which 
 holdeth not in England, where no general law 
 can be midc without con fent of parlamentrbuc 
 in theother pointeof fucceflion , it appeareth 
 that the reftraint is far greater in thos other two 
 countries, then in Ingland, for that in Spayne 
 the next in blood cannot (uccede be he neuer 
 fo lawfully defcended, but by a new approba- 
 tion of the nobility and bifhops , and dates of 
 theRealmc, as it is exprelly i'etdowneinthe 
 two ancient councelles of Tolledo the fourth ConcH. 
 and fifth. In confirmation wherof we fee at this ^^^^'^ ^5. 
 day, that the king of Spaynes owne fonne^ can- cU.f.c.s, ^ 
 
 D 4 notfuc- 
 
}o A Conference touching fuccef ton 
 not fuccede not be called Prince, except he be 
 .firftfworne by the (aid nobility and ilates in 
 token of their new confent, and Co we haue 
 feene it pradlized in our dayes towards three or 
 fowerof King Philips children, which haue 
 fucceded the one after the other in the title of 
 PiincCvS of Spaine, and ateuery chainge a new 
 oth required at the fubieds handes, for their 
 admidion to the faid dignity^ which is not vfed 
 in the kings children of France or Ingland. ^ 
 f ecullat In Prance the world knowcth,how women, 
 of fuccef- arc not admitted to fucced in the ctown^ be 
 fion, ^bey neuer Co neare in blood,nether any of their 
 iflTue , though it be male. For which caufe I 
 doubt not but you rcmeber how king Edward 
 the third of Ingland though he vveie fonne 8c 
 Paui^'^*' heyrevntoa daughter of France , whofe three 
 Anii.hift. brethren were kings and left hir fole heyre to 
 G-^Ird ^ hir father king Phillip the fourth furnamed 
 duSIyi. lhefayre,yetvvasheputby thecrowne, as alfo 
 lanlib. 14 of Nauar , at the fame tyme, who 
 
 ' was fonne and heyre vnto this womans eldcft 
 brothers daughter, named Lewis Huttin king 
 of France, (which king of Nauar therby Ice- 
 med alfo to be before king Edward of Ingland) 
 but yet were they both put by it, and Philip dc 
 Vallois , a brothers fonne of Phillip the faire^ 
 fodib^^^' was preferred to ir^by general decree of the fta- 
 ca^.i.^ tes^of France, andby vardit of the whole par- 
 An.x3Z7. lafnent of Paris, gathered about the fame af- 
 fay re. 
 
 Nether did it auaylc, that the two kings a 
 
 fore 
 
tothecro%ne. Vdrt i. Cap, II. 51 
 fore faid alleaged^ rhnt it was agaynft rcafon & j^^pocf 
 confcicncc and cuftome of al nations, to excliid for (uccc(^ 
 women, from the fucceffion of the crowne^'^^J^^n. 
 which apparrayned vnto them by propinqurty 
 of blood, feing both nature &God hath made 
 ihcmcapable oFfuch fucceffion euery where, 
 as it appereth by example of al other nations^ 
 andintheold teftament among the people of 
 god it felfe,w her we fee women haue bin ad- 
 mitted,vntokingdomes by fucceffion , but al 
 this (I fayj preuayled not^vviih the French as it 
 doth not aUbattJiis day for the admiffion of 
 Dona ifabelia Eugenia ClaraAnfanta ofspape vnto The in. 
 the faid crowne of France though by difienc of spTyn^L 
 blood ther be no queftion of her next propin- Pnnce of 
 quity for that fhe is the eldeft child of the laft^^"^'^^ 
 kings eldeft fifter. 
 
 The like exclufion is made agaynft the Prin- 
 ce of Lorayne that now liueth^ though he be a 
 man.and nephew CO the laft king, for that his 
 title is by a woman, to wit, his mother, that 
 was yongec fifter vnto the laft king Henry of 
 France. 
 
 And albeit the law called Salica , by the ccrardda 
 Frenchmen, by vert ue vvherof they pretend to Haiiian 
 exclude the fucceffion of women , be no very Hia.VVac. 
 ancient law^as the French themfelues do con- & Anno 
 . fefle, and much leilc madeby Pharamond ther/jb^i^f^ 
 firilking, or in thos ancient tymes as otjiers An. ijit. 
 without ^ronnd do affirme; yet do vvei'e Aac^Jl^E^'^p 
 it is fufhcicnt, tobyndai Princes and fubieds <i€fiun9c. 
 of cha: rcalme^to obferue the fame,and to alter 
 D s thecoutfe 
 
31 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 the courfeof natural difccnc, and nearnes of 
 bloodas wehauefcene, and that the king of 
 Nauarr and Ipme other of his race by vertue of 
 this only law do pretend at this day to be next 
 in fucceflion to rhis goodly crowne^thoiigh in 
 nearnes of blood rhcy be farther of, by many 
 degrees from the laft king Henry the thirds 
 then either the forefaid Enfanta cf Spayne or 
 the Prince of Lorrayne that now is , who arc 
 children of his owne lifters, which poy nt yet ia 
 Inglandvveregreat diforder, and would not 
 be fufFered,for that our lawes are otherwifc, Sc 
 who made thes lawes,but the common wealth 
 itfclfe. 
 
 By al which we fee that diners kingdomes, 
 hauediuers lawes andcuftomesin the matter 
 of fuccefljon,and that it is not enough (as ofcen 
 Ihauefiid) for a mantoalleage bare propin- 
 quity of blood, therby topreuaile, for that he 
 may be excluded or put back by diners other 
 circumftances, and for fundry other reafons 
 which afterward we fhaldifcufle. 
 Kings Yea,not only in this pointe (faid he) hath the 
 ^^^frir^A commo wealth authority to put back the next 
 m^ybl inheritors vppon lawful con(iderations^but al- 
 4eprmcd. fo to difpofelle them th.it haue bin lawfully 
 put in polIcrffion,if they fulfil nor the lawes and 
 condicions, by which and for which^ their di- 
 gnity was giuen them. Which poynr as it can- 
 not icrue for wicked me to be troblefome vnto 
 their gouernorSjfor their owne intererts or ap- 
 petits, foyet when ic is done vppon iuft and 
 
 vrgcnt 
 
to the CYoi^ne, Tart i . Cap. II. j 5 
 vrgent caufes and by publique authority cfthe 
 whole body:the iuftice therof is playne,nof on- 
 ly by the grounds and reafons before allcagcd, 
 but alio by thos examples of the Romans and 
 Grecians ahedy mentioned, who lawfully de- 
 pofediheir kings vppon iuft conhderations, 8c' 
 chaingedalfo ther monarchie and kingly go- 
 uernientjinto other formes of regiment. And 
 it mieht be pioued alfo.by examples of al other 
 mtions, and this perhapps with a circum- t,ie circu- 
 ftance which I know not,vvheiher euery man ftancc, 
 here haue confidered the fame, to wit, that 
 God hath wonderfully concurred for the moft 
 part, with fuch iuditial adtes of the common 
 .wealth agaynft their cuel Princes, not only in 
 profpering the fame, butbygiuing them alfb 
 commonly fome notable fuccelPor in place of 
 thedepofed^therby both to iuftify thefacl:,ancl 
 to remedy the faulte of him that w^ent be- 
 fore. 
 
 To this al the company anfwered, that they 
 had neuer much thought, nor made reflexion 
 vppon any fuch circumftance,and therfore that 
 it could not be but a pointeofmuch nouelty, 
 toherethefamedilcuffed, requefting him to 
 fay what he had obferued or read in that be- 
 halfe. 
 
 I am content(faidhe; but yet with this pre- Agaynft 
 face^ihat I am far from the opinion of thos ^^^^^^^^^^^ 
 people ofourdayes>orofoId,who make folitle and con- 
 accomprofrheirduty towards Princes, as be ^^^'"p'^PJ* 
 thtir title what it wii, yet for euery miflike of ces. 
 
 ther 
 
J4 A Conference touching fuccefwn 
 iherownethey areredy to band agaynft them 
 wherfoeuer they thinke they may make their 
 partiegood.inuentinga thowfand cahimnia- 
 tionsfortherdifcreditwithoLK confcience or 
 reafon^vvhom in deede I do thinke to haue Htle 
 confcienceor none atal but rather to bethoic 
 whom the Apoftles S. Peter andS. lude did 
 x^et. 2. ^P^^kc of when they fsLidMouit Dm'mus miquos 
 laidx « iudicij referfmCy crue'iandos, radgis autem eos 
 
 qmchm'mationem cantenmunt, audaces , ftbi pkcen-- 
 l^^aC^c. God knoweth how to rcferue the wic- 
 ked vnto the day of judgment ther to be tor- 
 mented, but yet much more thofe [which do 
 contemnedomina£ian,orgouerment^and are 
 bold and Iikmg of chem fehies^chus much ther. 
 ^^n^^^ Nay further^ I am of opinion, that whatfoe- 
 on^fct- ueraPtincestitlebe, ifoncehe befetledin the 
 ^^^^^ crownc^ and admitted by the commonwealth 
 ncdb^' (for ofal other holdes I efteeme the tenure of a 
 pRtiat ciowne) if fo it maye be termed (the moft irre- 
 ^^'^ guler and extraordinary) euery man is bound 
 tofetlehis confcience to obey the fame, in al 
 that lawfully he may commaunde , and this 
 without examination of his title^ or intercft/or 
 that(aslhauefaid) Goddifpofeth of kingdo- 
 mcs and worketh his vvil in Princes afiayres 3S 
 pleafeth, and this by extraordinary meanes, 
 oftentymes fo that if we fhould examine the 
 titles at this day, ofal the Princes ofChriftcn- 
 dome, by the ordinary rule of priuate mens 
 rr^htesfucccffions or tenures, we fhould find 
 fo many knottsand dificulties^ as it were hard 
 
 for any 
 
ttithem'^nc. Vmi i. Cap, IL 
 for any law to make the fame playne, but only 
 the {upccrnelawofgodsdifpoiiuonjVvhichcan 
 difpenlein what he lifteth. 
 
 This is my opmion in this behalf for true Agaynft 
 and quiet obedience, and yet on the other fide, f^^^^y^^l^ 
 ns farof am I from the abieA and wicked fla- to vaxLth 
 uxy of fuch as affirme Princes, to be fubied: to |^I!c«L^^ 
 no law or limitation atal j either in authority 
 gouerment,!ife,or fucceffionjbutas though by 
 jiatureihcy had bin created kings from the be- 
 giningof the vvorld^oras though the common 
 wealth had bin rflade for them and not they 
 for the common v veaIth,or as though they had 
 begotten or purchafed or giuen life to ihe 
 vvealpublique, and not that the vvealpubhquc 
 had exalted them or oiuen them their authori. 
 cy honor and dignity: fo thes flatterers do ^frec 
 them, from al obligation, dewty reuerence oc 
 lefped: vnto the whole body wherof they are 
 theheades, nayexprelly they fay and affirmc 
 xhn: al mens gdodes bodies aruilms^ are the Afefurdc 
 4it their pleafures to difpvfe of: that they are vnder m fiaterics 
 iaJi^ cr accvmpt-giuing'Tiphatfoeucr y that they f^^^^^^ ^iTay^ & 
 iy nature andgenertttion only, and not by any authority others. 
 admifwn orupprohatimof the common 1^eatth,and 
 that confeqmntb/ no merite or dement ofther perfons 
 is to be refpeiied, nor any confJeration of then natures 
 cr qualities, toji^it of capacity, dtjfofttiOy or other per fo-^ 
 nalcircmnflances ^ is to be had or admitted, and do 
 theyTiphatth^Uji, no authority is tlrer vnder God y to 
 €bajlat them. 
 
 Al ches abfurd paradoxes, haue feme men of 
 
 ourdayes 
 
j(S A Conference toucbmgfu^^ 
 
 ourdayes vttered in flatery of Princes, and na-. 
 ielloym mely oflate^one Belloy a French man(as before 
 clih^^ Ifignified}in tvvobookeswhich he called ap- 
 apoiog, pologies^ the one catbolique, and the other for 
 {.roiegu jj^^.]^j,^g^j;;,Qj}T, yyj^j^}^ fcmcth to vvtitc ia 
 
 fanourof tkc king ofNauare, (and as other 
 
 alfbcal him kingofFrance)but in my opinion, 
 
 hedeferucth fmal comniendation, or reward 
 
 to defend a kings title,vvith fuch a^lercions and 
 
 propofitions, asdodeftroyal lawreafon con- 
 
 fcience and common vveahh, and do bring al 
 
 to fuchabfolure tyranyas no reahne euer did 
 
 or could fuffer among ciuil people, nonotyn- 
 
 der the dominion of the Tuike himfelfc at this 
 
 day, vvher yet fome proportion of equity is 
 
 held betwene the Prince and the people , both 
 
 in goaerment and fucceffion, though nothing 
 
 fo much as in Chriftian nations- 
 
 ^ Wherfore to auoyd thes two extremes, I fhal 
 
 rht pur- ^ , P ' 
 
 p')(cof proue vntoyou^ tnemeane before rnentjoncd, 
 
 the ncxt to vvit^that as al the duty^rcuetcnce Jouc ^ and 
 * obedience before named.is to be ycalded vnto 
 euery Prince which the commonwealth hath 
 once eftablifhedifb yet rerayneth (111 the com- 
 mon wealrh her authority not only to relirayne 
 the fame Prince, if he be exorbitant, butalfo to 
 chaften and rcmoue hjm,vppon due &c waighty 
 conhderations 5 and that the fame hath bin 
 donne and pr^'^itiledat many tymes in mcft na- 
 tions, bothe Cbriftian & otherwife with right 
 good lucceHe^ to the weal publique, and this 
 lhalbc the argument ('if you thinkc goodj of 
 
 out next 
 
^ 37 
 
 our next meeting, for that now it is late , and I 
 Viould belothtohaiie you go away with my 
 talchalfetould,for ihatitisa matter of much 
 momentjas to morrow you 1 hal here. 
 
 Al vveare content vviih this tefolution, and 
 fo departed eueiy man,to his loging,vvith pur- 
 pofe to leturne the next morning fbmwhac 
 more early then their accuftoraed houre to 
 the end the matter might be thoicughly de- 
 bated. 
 
 OF KINGS LAVVFVL- 
 
 LY CHASTISED BY THEIR 
 
 COMMON VVEALTHES FOR THEIR. 
 
 fnifgouertnent^andofthcgoodandprojperous 
 fuccejfe that God commonly hath 
 gtuen to the fame. 
 
 Cap. III. 
 
 TH E company was no (oner come to- 
 gether the next morning, but they 
 were al at the ciuiha lawyer to perfor- 
 mehispromife, and to profecute the 
 matter he had propounded the night before: to 
 whom he anfwered, you require of me (if I be Trro 
 not deceaued) two points loyntly to be proued 1^*^^.^ 
 vnto you, the fiift that common wealthes haue ucd. 
 chaftifedfomtymes lawfully ther lawful Prin- 
 ces,thoughneuer fo lawfully they vveare deP 
 cended^or other wife lawfully put in pofTeflion 
 of their crowne, and fecondly that this hath 
 
 fallen 
 
A Conferem Uuchmg^ 
 
 fallen out eiier, or for the moftpart, commo- 
 dious to the vvealpubh"que,& that it may feeme 
 that God approued and profpercd the fame, by 
 iheijood fuccefle and fuccelfors that enfevved 
 therof Which tvvo points, I am content (quoth 
 he) to fhewvntoyou, by Ibme examples for 
 that the reafons herof haue in part bin declared 
 beforej& fhalbemorein particuler hereafter, 
 butyetmuft I do this with the proteftation, 
 before mentioned, that nothing be taken out 
 Kotliing oftnismy fpech, agaynft the facred authority 
 J^r^^ and dew lefiDedand obedience, that al men do 
 ck.v- le- owe,vnro Prmces both byGods law and nature 
 fped \o as hp.rh bm proued^but only this fhal ferae 
 to I hew that as nothing vndcrGod is more ho- 
 iiorablcjamiable, prohtableor foueraine ^ then 
 a good Prince: fo nothing is more pefteleni or 
 bringethfo general deftniclion and defolation 
 as an euel Prince. And thc^ifoie as the whole 
 body is of more authority then the only head, 
 tmd m,ay cure the head if it be oat of tune , fa 
 inay the wealpublique cure or cutt cf their 
 headesjiftheymfeft therelt , feingthat a body 
 ciuil may haueduiers hcades^by fucceiIion,and 
 is notboundeuertoone^as a body natural is, 
 v^hich body natural, if it had the fame ability 
 that whc it had an aking or fickly head,it could 
 ctftit of and take an other, I doubt not, but it 
 vv^HJ-id fo do, a^ird that al men would confe(Ie 
 that i:h:idaathbri:y fufficient & reafon to do, 
 ; the fam j rather then al the other partes fhould 
 pciifh or liue in payne and continual lourmct ! 
 
 but yet 
 
:iua« 
 
 ^ 39 
 
 but yet much morecleare is the matter that we 
 haue in hand for difburdening our felues of 
 wicked Princes, as now I Chal begin to proue 
 vntoyou. 
 
 And for profe of both the poynts toyntely Dcpri _ 
 Vvhich you require , I might begirni perhaps tionsof 
 Vvith fome examples out of the fcripture itcouwcd' 
 felfe,but that fome man may chace to fe^^,that i« ^'"ipta 
 thes things recounted ther of thelew^s, were 
 not fottiuch to be reputed for adsof the com-^ 
 mon wealth 3 as for particuler ordinations of 
 God himfelfe , which yet is not any thing 
 agaynftme, but rather maketh much for our 
 purpofe.Por that the matter is rnore authorized 
 hereby ,feing that what foeuerGod <|jd ordeync 
 or put in vrc in his common wealthy that may 
 alfobepradifed by cither common weahhcs, 
 now hauinge his authority and approbatio for 
 the fame. Where- forefferd he)though Ido haftS 
 to examples that art mor© nearer home , and 
 more proper to thepanicatier purpofe wherof 
 we treat, yet can I not 6rfiit- to note fome two 
 or three out of the bible, that do appertcyne 
 to this purpofe airci,& thes are the depriuatioii 
 and putting to death of two wicked kings of 
 luda^named Saul and Airion, (though both of i.Regj ^ 
 them wete lawfully placed in that dignity) ^-^^S-*^- 
 and the bringing in of Dauid and lofias in their 
 roomes, who were the two moft excellent 
 Princes that euer thkt nation or any other (I 
 thinke) haiie hatf td gSuerne'them. 
 
 And fitft king Skp thotlgh He were cledted 
 ^ \ £ by God 
 
 2 3 8 1 9 
 
40 A Cwqmmtmmg^ 
 by God (as you know^toihat royal throne, yet 
 vvas heHayneby the Philiftians by Gods order 
 asit was foretold him for his di(ubedi€nce& 
 not fulfillinge the !aw& limites prefcribed vmo 
 by m.A^on was lawful king alto & that by na- 
 tural ^^i^cent& luccefliofbr he was fonric & 
 hey re to king Manafles whom he fuccedcd and 
 yet vyas he llayne by his ownc people, qutd tJon 
 ambddmt ijuvia Dowiwi,for that heswalked not iji 
 the way ptefcribed vnto him by God: and vnto 
 thes tWQ kings lb depriued, God gaue two fuc- 
 
 Kinglo- ceflbrs, as I haue named , the 1 ke wherof arc 
 not to bc'found in the whole ranck of kings for 
 athoufandyearcf togeather: for of Icfias it is 
 Wr itten , Teat quod erat Yeitum in conjpellu DoMmi^ 
 
 ^. & ^^0^ declmanit mque ad dextram neque ad finiftra^ 
 he did chat whic h was right in the (ighr of God, 
 nether did he decline vnto the right hand noc 
 the left He feigned } f . ycares,and Himmias the 
 
 2.?aialip. prophet that hued i».his tymc,loued (o txne- 
 
 3^ ' mely this good king ^ as he ncuerceafed after- 
 wards to lament his death as the icripcurc 
 fayeth. 
 
 King Da- As fpi; kingDauid,it fhalnot beneed-fulto 
 fay any ihing , how excellent a king he vvas> 
 for as many Itrned men do note, he was a moft 
 pei ft c5t paterne for al kmgs that f hould follow 
 Xcnopho in the world , not as ki' g Qyrus whom Xeno- 
 »"^y^^- phon did paint out more according to his 
 owne imagination of a perft<Sv king, that he 
 wifhed^ihen to the truth qfjlfheftoiy, hm ra- 
 cher a$ one ^t^?jtf aiTcil far ifi a^les that which 
 
 ♦ ii written 
 
^ 4T 
 
 is written of him , and this not only in matters 
 of religion, piety, and deuotionrbut alfo of chc- 
 ualry valor wiidoiTie&po!licy, necher is it ttuc 
 which Nicholas Machauel y the Fiorentyne, and Nich.Ma- 
 fome oihcrsof his new vnchriftian fchole ^^^^-^J^-^^^' 
 affirme, for defacing of chriftian vertuc, thatuuiui/ 
 religton and piety are lefts ojltntymes to politique and 
 T^ifegoucrment, and do breake or 'Weaken the high 
 Jpirits of magnanimous men , to take in hand greate 
 enterprifes for ih: common 'j^ealth. This (I fay) is Auguft.l. 
 exrreme falle^ forihatas diuines aiewonr to*^^^^^* 
 fiy (and it is moft true) grace doth not deftroy 
 or corrupt batperfedcth nature,foashewhich 
 by nature is valianr.wifc, liberal, or politique, 
 fhalbe the more , if alfo he be pious and reli- 
 gious. Which we fee cuidcntlv in king Dauid, 
 who notwithftanding al his piety, yet omitted 
 he nothing apperteyning to the ftate andgo- 
 uerment of a noble wife and politique Prince. 
 Forfirft ofaJ, he began w^ith reforuiation of ^j^^ ^^^^ 
 his owne court and realme in matter of gooddomcand 
 life and ftrruicc of God , whenn he vfed tht: ^^^^1^°^^ 
 counfeland diredion of Gid and of Nathan uid. 
 the Prophet, as alfo of Abiaihar and Hiram the 
 cheefe pricftes, and of Hcman his wile coun- 
 cellor. He reduced t^c whole clergie into 24. x Paxalip. 
 degrees , appointing foure ihoufand fingers J p^^i 
 with diners fortes of mufycal jnftruments^ vn-Scis» 
 der Afaph, Ueman and other principal men that 
 fhould be heades of the quv re.He appoynted al 
 officers needful both for his court and alfo the 
 commo Wwakh^with the armes of the crowne, 
 
 £ i which 
 
42L A Conference touching fuccepM 
 which was a Lyon, in rcmem brace of rheLyOtl 
 ^^^^^^^^ which he had {layne with his'bwnc handes, 
 Dauid. when he was a child: he ordeyned a mync with 
 a peculiec forme of money to be ftamped:tookc 
 order for diftributingrehefe vntothepoore, & 
 othQv iy ke a^ies of a prudent and pious Prince* 
 His valor After al this he tUi ned him fclfeto his old cx- 
 inchiuaU ercife of warres , to which he w^as giuen from 
 his child hood^being wonderful valiant of his 
 owneper (on as appereth by the Lion and bearc 
 that he flew vvirh h is owne handcs,and the co- 
 rage vvherwith he tooke vppon him the com- 
 bat with Goliath, and as he had f hewed him- 
 felfe a great warier and renowmed capiayne 
 many yeares in the feruice of Saul, agay nft the 
 King Da- Phihftians , and had gayned many noble vi- 
 aoSs^^ ^oryes: fo much more did he after he was 
 king hymfelf, forthathe conquered not only 
 the Philiftians^but alfo the Amoritsjdumeans, 
 Moabitcs, with the kings and people of Da- 
 mafco and al Syria, euen vnto the ruier Eupha- 
 tes , Sc left al ihes countryes peace-able to his 
 I.Reg 8. fucceirorand thefcripture recompteth in one 
 only chaptei jhow that in three or foure battai- 
 
 1. Paral.is jes v\heiin Dauid himfelfc wasprefent , with 
 
 in the fpacc of two or three yeares, almoft a 
 hundreth thoufand horfeand foote fl^yne by 
 him, and that himfelfc flew in his dayts eight 
 hundreth with his owne handes , and that he 
 
 2. Rcg. 13 made by his example thirty & feuen fuch Cap- 
 mt^cil ^^y^^s one of them was able to lead and 
 
 goucine a vvholc army, and yet among al thcs 
 
 cxpcnfcs 
 
to thecrd^ne. Tart i. Cav. I IT. 43 
 cxpcnfes of vvarres had he care to lay vp Co 
 much money and creafureas was fufficient for 
 the bnylding of that huge and wonderful tem- 
 ple after him, which he recommended to his 
 fonne Salamon , and amiddeft al this valor and a.Reg. 7. 
 couradge of fo vvarlyk#a king and Captayne, 
 hadhefo much humility as to humble him- 
 felfe to Nathan the Propli^t when he came to His hum! 
 rebuke him for his fault, and fo mnch P^'^ti^^^e^i^y chari- 
 and charity as to pardon Semei that rcuyled him Motion. ^ 
 and threw ftones at him in the high way as he 
 wenr^and among fo many and continual bud- 
 nefeSjboth martial and ciuil,& great affaires of 
 the common wealth, he had tyme to write fo 
 many Pfalmes as we fee,and to fing pray fes fe- 
 ucn ty mes, a day to almighr y God, and to feel 
 that deuotion at his death which we read of, & 
 finally he fo lined and Co dyed, as neuer Prince 
 (I thinkej before him nor perfiapps afterhyni 
 fo ioyned together both valor and vertue cou- 
 rage and humility, wifdom and piety, gouer- 
 ment and deuorion,nobility and religio. Wher- 
 fore though Ihauebin fomwhat longer then 
 I would in this example, yet hath it not bin 
 from the purpofe to note fomwhat inparticu- 
 lervvhat two worthy kings vv^re put vp by 
 God in place of twoother by himdepriued & 
 dcpofed. 
 
 And nowifwe vvil, leaue the Hcbrues and Kings pm 
 returne to the Romans, of vvhom vvc fpake^^^""^' 
 before, we fhal find diners things notable in fSromas 
 lhatftatcalfo.tothcpurpofe vvehauein hand. ^ ^^Ij?^ 
 E 5 For before they had. 
 
44 A C onferenee touching fuccef ton - 
 For before I tould you how that Romnlus iheir 
 Malicar 1. firft king hailing By litlc and litledeclined into 
 tyranny, he was llayne and cue in peeccs by ihc 
 fcnarc ("which ar that tynfe conrcyncd a hun- 
 dred in number) and in his place waschofen 
 Numa Pompilms the notableft king that euer 
 they had, whoprefctibed al their order of rch- 
 gionand manner of facrific^s, imitating theria 
 and in diuers other poynres, rheriresand cere- 
 Tcrtul. li. monyes of the lewes, as Tertuhan and other fa- 
 fcrip'con- ^'^^'^ do note he began alfo the buylding of 
 trakxrcs. thcit Capitol, added the two monethes of lan- 
 martyr ^^^Y February to the yearcanddid ocher 
 apolog. fuch notable things for that common vTenlih. 
 
 Agayne whenTarquinius theptoud therfe- 
 uenthand laftking, was expelled by the fame 
 fcnate,for hiseuel gouerment, and the whole 
 Tit.riu.H. tDanner of gouermcnt chainged, as before hath 
 Eutro^ 1 bin touched^ we fee the fuccede was profpe- 
 1. * * rous, for that not only no hurt came ihtrby to 
 the common wealth , but exccding much 
 good , fcing their gouerment and increafe of 
 Empire was fo profpcrousvnder their confuls 
 for many yeares in fuch fort , that wheras at 
 the end of their kRgsgouerment^they had but 
 fiftcne myles territory without their cy tie , it is 
 knowne, that when their confuls gouetment 
 ended and was chainged by lulius Cacfar, their 
 territory reached more then fifrene thoufand 
 myles in copafle, for tha: they had not only al 
 Europe vndcr therdominion^but the principal 
 partes alfo of Aha and Africa, fo as this chaftif- 
 
 ment 
 
to the ml^ne. Tart i.Ca#. III. 4? 
 
 ment fo iiiftly layd vppon theirkings was pro- 
 ficable and beneficial to their common wealthc 
 alio. 
 
 Morccuervvhen lulius Cacfar vppon parti- 
 cular ambicion had broke allawboth humane 
 ^nddiiime, and raken al gouerment in to his ^^^^^^^^ 
 ownt ha ids alone, he was inreiienge hereof,guftus. 
 (layne as the world knoweih , by lenators in 
 the ienare-houfe: Sind OUauianus Augftjlus pre- '^^ 
 fcrred in his roome , who proued afterwards suctonin 
 the moll famous Emperor thxt euer was. 
 I might note here alfo how Nero fixih Empe^KcroVe. 
 ror of Rome which fucceded lawfully his^P^^» 
 vnckle CUudm in the Empire, and being after- 
 Ward depofed and fcntcnccd to death by the fe- 
 naie for his wicked gouerment (w hie h' was the 
 fiift iudicial fentencc that euer the fenate gauc 
 agaynft Emperor) albeit peace anfucd not pre- Comet, 
 fently ,but that Galba Oiho and Vitellius^threc ^; 
 great Captaynes of the Empire made (bme iitle EgcfipXj 
 entcrludes of tragical killing of one the other, 
 yet with-in few monethcs the v\hole Empire 
 by that meanes fcl vppon Vtfpafian/and his 
 fonne Titus, two of the beft gouernors that 
 thos tymes euer faw. 
 
 The like might be noted of the noble rancfc ^ 
 of fine excellent good Emperors, to wit, ^eruA^ ^^^^ 
 Jnuan Adrian, Antoninus Pius^ aud Marcus Aunbus, vitaCxia. 
 thatenfued in the empire bytheiuft death of 
 cruel Domitian, which execution the fenate is 
 thought itl (ecrec to hauc procured, (being not 
 able to performe it openly by iuftice) which 
 
 £ 4 was 
 
45 ii Cof^nme tmlnng fuccefton' 
 was feen by that, that when the adb was donci 
 the fenate did prdenrfy by publique dec(ee aL 
 low of the fame, and difanulled al his barba- 
 rous aftcs for their exceeding cruelly, and com^ 
 maunded his armes and memories to be pulled 
 downc euery where , and chofe for his fuccef* 
 forgone Coccenis Neruti^ an Italian, a man of ex-» 
 cellent vertue^by whom they enioyed not only 
 the mod profperous tyme of his gouerment, 
 but of al thos other fower before named that 
 cnfued him no lellc worthy then himfelfe,. 
 Not long after, the fucGeffion of thesexccU 
 
 KcUogi- lentgood Emperon , ther came to the crownc 
 
 bolus, jjy lawful difcent of blood, a youth named 
 Antoninus HeUogabolus , Ibnnc of the Emperor 
 Antoninus Caracalla^ and nephew to the moft fa- 
 mous and noble Emperdr Septimim Seuem that 
 dyed in Ingland. Which youth as he was gtcat- 
 ly loued and honored a great while for fo wor- 
 thy a grand father: fo afterwards for Iiis ownc 
 
 An. Dni nioft beaftly life and foule adions , he was de- 
 priued' and put to death by the fouldiars of 
 Rome,at the requeft & common defire both of 
 the people and fenate,vvhen he had reigned fix 
 yeares, and yet was but twenty yeares of age, 
 
 Alittslap. whenhewasputdowneandhis death & de- 
 priuation was approued by publique a(5le of 
 the fenate,who ordey ned alfo in his deteftatio, 
 that neuer Emperor after him fhonld be called 
 more Antoninus & fp it was obferued , though 
 no other name had euer bin more gratful be- 
 fore,to the world for the remembrance of the 
 
 good 
 
toihecYo^ne. Tart i. Cap. III. 47 
 good Emperors, that had bin fo called. 
 
 This man being chaftized as is faid^ther was 
 preferred to the Empire in his roome a goodly Aicxldct 
 yong man, of his next kynred named Alexanm^^^^^ 
 Seuerus, fcnneto Mamoned which was fifter to 
 Heliogabolus his mother, and being admitted 
 by common confent^boih of the fenate people Herod, is 
 and army^ he proued one of the moft rareft^^^^^^' 
 Ptinces for his valor and vertue, thateuer the 
 roman Empire hath had , fo as the worthincs 
 of Seuerus femed 10 recopence fully the wicked- 
 nes of Relwgabolus. 
 
 I might name^diuers other fuch examples Sc 
 among the reft that of Maxentm ^ who being MaxStiM 
 lawfnlly polTelled of the Empire in Rome, as it ^**^^t 
 feemed (for that he was (bnnc to Maximinianm 
 the Emperor that reigned with Diocletian) yet 
 for his tyrannous gouerment that was intolc* 
 rable^it isfuppofedthat the fenate (not being 
 able to match him in open ftrenght) fent pri- 
 Tiily into Ingland & France, to inuite Conftan- 
 tintocome, anddoiufticevpponhim, and fo 
 he did, and he being drowned in theriuerof 
 Tiber Coftantin futnamed afterward the great 
 fucceded in the Empire, and was the man that 
 al men know,and the firft Emperor that publi- 
 quely profefledhimfelfea Chriftian and plan- 
 ted our faith ouer ai the world & this of the ro. 
 mane Empyrc. 
 
 And yfvve wil come lower downc,& neerec 
 home , we haue yet an other example , more 
 markable perhaps then al the reft, which wag 
 £ s the change 
 
48 A Conference touching fuccejion 
 the change ofthe Empire from the Eaft rothe 
 ^of^he euclgoucrment of Conftantin the 
 
 caitcmpy fixth, who was depofcd firft and his eyes pur^ 
 out bv his owne mother Irene, andihcEmpiie 
 vfurped by her,but being not able to rale it in 
 fuch order as was !ieedful,for (o great a monar- 
 chy (though otherwife fhe w re one of the 
 rareft women for valor and wifdome that cuer 
 the world had ) fhe vvasdepriued therof by the 
 charfes fentence of Leo the third, pope of Rome , and 
 thcgrca. by confent of al the people and fenat of 'hat ci- 
 tye,and Charles kingof France and of Germa- 
 ny (furnamed afrrrward the great) was cro w- 
 Aa. loo. T\tA Emperor of che weft, and fo hath thatfuc- 
 ceffion remayned vnto this day, and many wor- 
 thy men hiiie fuccededlherin, & infinite acles 
 of Jurifdidion haue bin excerlifed by this au- 
 thority which wereal vniult and tyrannical, if 
 this change of the Empire, and depoluion of 
 Irene and her fonne for thereuel gouerment 
 hadnotbinlawfnK 
 
 It were :o fong to runne ouer a! other king- 
 domes, yer fomel fhal touch in fuch poynts 
 as are moft notorious. 
 Two Thetwofamouschages that haue bin made 
 Jj^^fJ** ofthe royal lyne in France, the firft from the 
 Beifor.i. I raccof Pharamond and Clodoueus to the lyne^ 
 ofpepin,a!td thefecond fiom theiace of Pepiii j 
 Clem, agayne to the lyne of Hugo Capetus , that tndu- 
 cn"achro ^'cth vnto this day , vvhfron areihcy founded, 
 jiiquc des bnt vppou theiudicial chaftifiiienc and dcpoii-* 
 Jnncl* rioaoftvvo euelPxinccs, thefiiftofChd eric 
 
 the third 
 
tctheero^ne. Tart Cat. III. 49 
 the third lawful king ofFrancc,v\ ho after ten ti 
 yeares that he had reigned was depoled , by 
 Zaccharie the pope at the requeft of the whole 
 nobility and cleargie of France , or rather his 
 depriuaticn was by them , and confirmed by 
 the pope, to whom they atleaged this realbn 
 for their doing in that behalfe, asGirard pur- 
 ceth itdowne inboth his French Cronicles, I 
 meane the large and the abbreuiation, to vvir, 
 that their oth to Childeric was to honor ftrue ^f^d^X 
 obey, maynrcyne and defend him agaynft aluation. 
 mcn,aslong ashe vvasiuft, religious, valiant, j» 
 clement, and would refift the enemies of the*> 
 crowne,punifh the wicked and confcrue thcj» 
 good,and defend the Chriftian fay th. And for ft 
 as much as thes promifes Cfaid they) were con- >t 
 dicional^they ought not to hold or bmdelon-j, 
 ger,then that they were reciprocally obferued, » 
 on both partesjwhich feing they were nor^ on u 
 the part of Childric^ they would nor be anyj» 
 longer his fubieds, and fo defircd Zacharias 
 toabfoluethem , from their othes, which he>, 
 did.and by thism.eanes Childric was depoled >, 
 and put into a monaftery, wher he dyed, and in 9^ 
 his place Pepin was chofen and crowned king y, 
 whos porteririe reygned for many years afrer,, 
 hym,and were fuch noble kings as al the world „ 
 can teftifie. 
 
 And fo continued this race of Pepin in thcHagoCa 
 royal throne for almoft two hundreth yeares JJg/'*'*^ 
 together vntil HugoCapetus, vvho was put 
 into the fame throne by the fame authority of 
 
 ihccom« 
 
jfo A Conference touching fuccefm 
 the common wealth, and Charles of Lowyne 
 laft of the race of Pepin/or the euel faiisfadion 
 which the French nation had of him was put 
 by it, and kept prifoner during his hfe in the 
 caftle of Orleance. And thus much do affirme 
 al the French Hiftoryes^and do attribute to thes 
 changes, the profperity and greatnes of their 
 prcfent kingdomeand monarchy,& thqs much 
 for France, wher many other examples might 
 be alleaged, as of king Lewis the third , furna- 
 med Faineant nFox that he was vnprofitable, and 
 of Charles furnamed legm, that fucceded him 
 both of them depofed by the ftares of France, 
 and other the lyke, of whom I fhall haue oc- 
 cafion to fpeake afterwards, to an other pur- 
 pofe. 
 
 Examples "^'^ pleafe, let vs ftepp ouer the 
 
 of spayac pircnic mountaines , and looke into Spayne, 
 wher ther wil not faile vs,airo diuers examples 
 Gdncii both before the opreflion of that realme by the 
 cap 4."^ moores, as alfo after: For that before, to wit 
 Ambrof.A about the ycare of Chrift 650. we reade of a 
 2p!i7. " lawful king named Flaueo Suinttla put downe 
 anddepriued,botheheandhispofterity in the 
 fourth councel national of Toledo, and one 
 Sifmando confirmed in his place, notvvithftan- 
 ding that SuintiU were at the beginning of his 
 raigne a very good king, and much commen- 
 Ifidor.in hy ifiodom Archbif hop of Siuily who yet 
 Hift.iii- in the faid councel was the firft man that fub* 
 fcribed to hisdepriuation. 
 
 After the entrance of the moores alfo, when 
 
 Spaync 
 
U the CToti^ne. Vart t . C A p. I T I. J t 
 
 Spayne was reduced agaync,to the order 8c go- 
 uermenrofSpanil h kings, we read that aoout 
 the yeare of Chrift 1 182. one Don Alonfo chc 
 eleuenth of that name,king of Caftile,& Leon, Eftcaaa 
 fucceded his father Ternando furnamed rhe^J^j*"^ 
 fain<3:,and himfelfeobteyiicd the furnamc ofdeUhift. 
 Sabio and Afirologo that is to fay, of wife and of J^^^?**^ 
 an Aftiologer, for his excetlent learning & pe- 
 cuher f kil in that arte^ as may vvcl appearc by 
 the Aftronomy tables thacat this day go vnder^^^^* 
 his name^which are the moft prefed: and exaift Aifoafi- 
 thateuer were fet forth by iudgmcnt of the"*" 
 learned. 
 
 This man, for his euelgouerment andefpc- KingDo« 
 ciallyfor tyranny vfed towards two nephews alonfo 
 ofhis,asthe fpanifh Chronicler GarauaywxL 
 teth, was depofed of his kingdome by a pu- 
 blicjueadeof parlament in thetowne ofVal- 
 }iodoHd,after he had reigned 50. yeares,and hij 
 ownefonneD<^»5'^«r/;« the fourth , was crow- 
 ned in his place, who for his valiant a<^es, was 
 furuamed elbrauo, and it turned to great com- 
 modity of the common wealth. 
 
 The famecommon wealth of Spayne fomc 
 ycares after, towitabont the yeare of Chrift 
 X 568,hauing to their king one Don 
 named the cruel, for his iniurious proceding ^^oftd. 
 with his fubieds, though, otherw ife he were 
 lawfully feafed alfo of the crowne,as fonne and 
 hey re to king Do;/ the twelfth , and had 
 reygned among them 18. yeares,yetfor hiseuet 
 goacrmcatthej' rcfglued codepofchim, and fo 
 
 ^ fcntfbr 
 
Tent for a baftard brother of his, named Henry 
 iha;: hued in Fiance requcftinij him chat he 
 Garibay would comc with feme force o^frenchmen to 
 JL14 C.40. afl^fitheni^ inihatade, and take the crowne 
 vppon him felf, which he did, and by the help 
 of the Spaniards and Freeh fouldiars, he draue 
 the faid Peter out of Spaine , and himfelfe 
 was crowned. And albeit Edward furnamed 
 the black Prince of Ingland, by order of his fa- 
 ther king Edward the third reftored once a- 
 gayne thcfaid Peter, yet was it not durable,for 
 that Henry hauing the fauourof the Spaniards 
 returned agaync and depriued Peter the fecond 
 ty me,and Hew him in fight hand to had,which 
 madefhewof more parciculer fauour of God 
 in this behalfe to Henry, and fo he remayned 
 king of Spayneasdoth alfo hisprogenic inioye 
 the lame vnto this day > though by nature he 
 was \ baftard as had bin faid, and notwithftan- 
 ding chat king Peterlefc twodaugbters which 
 vvere led awaye into Ingland and thermaryed 
 to great Princes, 
 
 And this king Henry fo put vp in his place 
 was called king Henry the fecod ofthis name, 
 and proued a moft excellent king , and for his 
 great nobility in conucrfation, and prouelle iu 
 chinahy, was called by excellency, £/ cauallero 
 thekinghtlyking,andfor his cxceding benig- 
 nity and liberality , vvasfurnamcd z\io, el delas 
 mcmdes^which is ro (ay ,the king that gaue ma- 
 ny g»fces, or the liberal franck, and bounteful 
 kin<j,which was a great change from the other 
 
 farnamed 
 
furnamcd craci, that king Peter had bcforCj& 
 ioyou lee chat alw ayes I gyuc you a good king 
 in place of the b ad depofed^ 
 
 InPorrugalalfohcfoielgoc out of Spaync, inFotttt- 
 I vvil alleage you one example more, which is 
 of DonSancbo die fccoJ/urnamed Capcle^foxxnh 
 king orPortrgr,l^la\^fulfonneand heyrcvnto 
 Don Aknicivuvx^m^A dGurdo y who whas third 
 kn gofPoicugal.This Dcw^^mc/;^, afccche had King Da 
 raigiKd }4, yeares w asdepiiued foi his deft ds^^^^^^^* 
 ingouerment by ihe vniucrfal confcnt of ai 
 Porrugil, &:this his firft depriuation fiom alcaribay 
 kingly lule and auihoiity (leauing him ^^^W {j-^^'^p^^ 
 the barcn;Hreof kfngjvvas appioi cd by a ge- tug.cxfl 
 jKMal conncel in Licyis , pope Innocentius the 
 4. biingthcrprcfent, whoat the petition & in- 
 ftaccohhe whole realme^ of Portugal by their 
 tmbafladois the Archbifhopof By4^4, bil hop 
 ofComibrn and diuers of the nobihty fent to 
 Lyons for that purpofe^did authorize the faidc 
 ftatc ofPoitugaljioput in fupremegouerment 
 one', DonAhnfo brother to the laid king Don 
 |^*i?2f/:o,vvho\va5ntih3rtyme, Earle of bullcn 
 I in Picardy,by right of his wife, and fo the Por* 
 tugaiesdui , & further alfo a lytle after thcjr 
 deprined their faid king, and did driue him out 
 j cf his rcalme into Caftilla,\vher he Hued al the 
 I reftof hislife in banHhment, and dyed in To- 
 ledo without euer returning, and this decree of 
 the counccl and Pope at Lvons,for authorizing 
 ot this fact, isyet extant m our Canon law, m dc fupptt 
 thclixt bookeof DtcutaU now in prynt. And i*"?- 
 
 this king 
 
54 ACo^emc^^ 
 
 this king Dow i4fow/i,the third vvhich in this fort 
 was put vp,againft his brother was peaceably & 
 Gatibay profperoufly king, of Portugal^al the dayes of* 
 Portug ii. his lyre & he;was a notable king,&amog other 
 H-cab.io greater ploy res, he was the firft that fet Portu- 
 gal free from al fubiedion dependence and ho- 
 mage to the kingdome of Caftile, which vnto 
 his ty mc it had acknowledged and he left for 
 hisfucceflbr his, fonnc^and heyre,Do;> D'tffnyfio el 
 TabricadoYy to wit the great buylder, for that he 
 buylded and founded aboue forty and foure 
 great townes in portugal , and was a moft rare 
 Prince and his ofipring ruieth in Portugal vnta 
 this day. 
 
 Infinite other examples could I alleage if I 
 would cxamy ne the lyues and difcentes of thes 
 and other kingdomes with their Princes, and 
 %he Em- tiamcly if I would fpeake of the Greeke Empe- 
 pcrorsof rors, depriued for their euci gouermcnt, not fo 
 ^ * much by populer mutyny (which often happe- 
 Glicas in i^^d among them) asby confent and graue de- 
 Annal, Hberatiou of the whole ftate and wealpubli- 
 zonlAn- que,as Michael Calaphutesy for that he had troden 
 iiaico.3. iheCrofle ofChrift vnder hisfeere, and was 
 Michael ^^^^^vvifc alfo a wicked man , as alfo the Em-» 
 Calapha, peror NiccphomBotomateSy for his dillblute life 
 and preferring wicked men to authority , and 
 thehke, wherof I might name many, but it 
 would be to longe. 
 inPolo- Whatfhould I nameheerc, thcdepofition 
 made of Princes, in our dayes^by other comm6 
 yvealthcs^as in Polonia, of Henry ihc third that 
 
 was laft 
 
tothtcrd^ne. Tart I. Cap. III. 
 was laft king of France , & before that had bin 
 fwornekingofPolonia, of which crowne oflnHwHs^ 
 Polonia,hevvasdepriiiedby pubhque adle of^^^i^^^^^* 
 parlament^ for his departing thence without Vaicfiuni 
 liccnce,and not returning at his day by the faid jgl*'*^' 
 ftate appoyntcd and denounced by pubhque vidc Ga« 
 lettres of peremptory commaundedmct, which 
 are yet extant. > rebus Po- 
 
 \Vhat f hoiild I ntme the depriuarions of [^g'^^^j^^ 
 Henry late kingof iS'/^^rr^, who being lawful 
 fuccedbrand lawfully in pofliflion after his fa- 
 ther^ Gujlanus was yet put downe by that com- 
 mon wealth and depriued^and his brother ma- 
 de king in his place who if you remember was 
 inihgland in the beginning of this QueeneSEoilin.L 
 reigne5& w^hofe fonne rcygnethat this d^y^^epl^nc" 
 iskingalfo. ofPolonia , and this fa6t was not An isw.' 
 only allowed of at home by al the ftates of that > 
 counttey , but alfo a broad, as namely of Maxi- 
 milian the Emperor^ and appronedalfoby the 
 king of Denmarke, and by al the Princes qF 
 Germany neer^ about that realme^who faw the 
 refonable cau fes which that common wealth 
 had to proceed as it d id . 
 
 And a litle before rhat,rhe like was pradifed 
 alfo in Denmarke agaynft C'tjiemm ther lawful markcT 
 kingifvvc refpeft his difcentin blood, foo: he 
 vvas fonne to king lohn that teigned a fore 
 him,and crowned in his fathers life, but yet af- 
 terwards for his intolerable cruelty , he vvas 
 depriaedand driueh into banifhment, together 
 With his wife and three children j al vvhidi 
 
 F were 
 
j6 A Conference tmhingfucceftmt 
 
 U^f^* were difinheritcd& his vncle FredenkVnnce o£ 
 An.is3x. Ho//Jiti^,vvas chofen king, whos progeni yec 
 Cofefo-^ remayneih in thecrov\ne,& the other , though 
 gra. in he Were roarryed to the fifter of Charles the 
 Da^Sde.* fifth laftEmpeior of that name, and were of 
 Eauius lokyn alio to king Henry the eight oflngland, 
 risTiiuftr y^^^'^*^!^ he neuer get to be reftored,but pafled 
 histymemiferably, partly m banif hment and 
 partly in priion vntil he dyed. 
 Examples ^ut ic fhalbe beft peihapps to endc this nar^ 
 of En- ration with an example or two out of Ingland 
 gland. felfe, for that no wheiecls haue I read more 
 markablc accidents, tonching this poynt, then 
 in Ingland, and forbreuity fake I fhal touch 
 only two or three happened fince the coqueft, 
 for that I vvil go no higher thongh I might, as 
 appeareth by theexaple of K. Edwin & others 
 nether vvil I beginne to ftand much vppon the 
 King iho example ofkingIohn,thoughwclairo I mighty 
 de^ofcd. for that by his cuel gouerment he made him- 
 felfe both fo odious at home & contempublc 
 ^btoade (hauing loft Normandy Gafcony 
 Guyenne, and al the reft in effed which the 
 crowne of Ingland had in France) as fiift ofal 
 he was both excommunicated and dcpofed by 
 ientenceof the pope at the fute of his ow^ne 
 people,and y vas inforced to make his peace by 
 refigninghiscfowne into the handcs of Pan- 
 Polid. dulfc the popes legate as Polidor recountcth 
 hifi.Ang. and afterwards faling backagayne to his old 
 An. uii. defedsand naughtiegoucrment, albeit by his 
 promile to the pope , to go and make warr 
 
 againil 
 
to tht cro^m. Tart i • C a p. 11 1, 
 dgainft ihaTurkes if he might be quiet at 
 home, and that his kyngdome fhouldbe per- 
 petually tributary to thefcaof Rome,he procu- 
 red him to be of his fide for a ty me^ and againft 
 the Baros : yet that ftayed not them to proceed 
 to liisdepriuation which they did efFedtuare, 
 firll at Canterbury and after at London, in the 
 eighteenth & laft yeare of kinglohnsreignc, An.ui«. 
 and meant alfo to hauc difinherited his fonne 
 Henry^which was afterward named kingHen- 
 ry the third, and at that tyme a childe of eight 
 yeares old only: and al this in punifhement of 
 the father J yf he hadliued, andforihat caufe 
 they called into Ingland Lo^(?«ic^the Prince of 
 France Tonne to king Philip the fecond, and fa- 
 ther to Say nt Lewis thenynth, anJchoCe him 
 for their king and did fweare him fealtye with 
 general confent in London the yeare of our 
 Lord 12.16. And but that the death of king^"'"*^' 
 lohn that prefently enfued, aheredthe whole 
 courfe of that dehgnment, and moued them to 
 turne their purpofes and aecept of his fonne 
 Henry before matters were fully eftablifhed 
 for king Lodowick : it was mod: likely that 
 France and Ingland would haue bin ioynedby 
 thes meanes vnder one crowne. 
 
 But in the end as I haue faid king Henry the King He.' 
 third was admitted and he proued avery wotj^hdcT* 
 thi king after fo euel as had gon before him^ 
 andhadbindepo(ed(\vhich isa cireumftancc 
 thatyoumuft alvvayes note in this narration) 
 and he reigned more yeares then euer king in 
 ' F 2. Ingland 
 
5§ A Conference foudnhg fticcepm 
 Ingland did before or after him, f(^> he reigned 
 ful 55 . yeares,& left his fonne & heyre Edward 
 the tiiftnot inferior to himfclfe in manhode & 
 King vcituevvho reigned 54.yearesand left a fonne 
 Ec^.vvard pamcd Ed WArd the fccond, who failing into 
 depofed. thi* (ame defecfts of gouerment or vvorfe , then 
 king fohn his great grandfather haddonne/Aas 
 after 19. yeares reigne depofed alio by ad of 
 Polyd.l. parbmentholden at London theyeare i^iG.Sc 
 An^aiica- hody adiiidged to perpetual prifon , in 
 nx.Anno which he was at thatprefent in the caftle of 
 1326. vvallingford , whether diners both bifhopS 
 Stow, in LoidtsA: knights of the Parlamentvvcre fent 
 vnro^him to denounce the fentence of the real- 
 tdvvard me agaynft hirn,ro wit, how they had deptiued 
 him^and chofen Edward his fonne in his place, 
 for vvhiv; h aft of choofing his fonncs he than-^ 
 ked them hnrtcly and with many teares, ac- 
 knowledged hisowne vnwoorthines,wherup- 
 ponhe was digraded , his name of king firft 
 taken from him^and he appoynted to be called 
 The man Ictfi^ardofcarnaruan from that howrc forward. 
 P^mfds' ^^'^ ^^^^^ crowne and ring were taken away, 
 ofaking. andthefteward of hishoufe brake the ftafeof 
 his office in his piefence, and difchatgcd his 
 and^hor I'^'^^^^t*^ of tlicit leruice, and al other people of 
 lings in thtr obedience or allege ancetow^ard him : and 
 ihumans low'ardes his mayntenance he had only a hun- 
 dreih ma* kcs a ycaie allow^ed for his expenccs, 
 and the n'was hedelyncrcd aUb into the hands 
 ofcertayne particnler keepers , who ledhnii 
 prifoncr from chcnce by diucrs Other places 
 ' vfmg 
 
tothecYoS^ne, Part i. Cap. III. 59 
 
 vfing him #ic!i extreme indignity in the way, 
 vnrilar laft they tooke his hfefrom him in rhe 
 caftle of Baik'ley , and his fonne Edward ^heKuig 
 thiid reigned in his place , who if we r^^pecl ^i^g^l^^jjl, 
 eyther valor, prowelle^lcngih of rc igne^ads of 
 cheualry, or the multitude of fomous Piinces 
 his childien left behinde him ^ vvas oneofthe 
 nobleftkniges that euei Inglad had, though he 
 were chofen in the place of a very eucl one as 
 youhauefeen. 
 
 But what fhal w^e fay? is this wbrrhines 
 which God giueth comm5lyto the fuccellbrs 
 at thes changes^perpetual or certayne by difccL'; 
 no truly: nor the example of one Princes pu- 
 jiif hment maketh an other tabeware , for the 
 next fuccedbr after this noble Edward which 
 was king Richard the fecond, though he were 
 not his (bnne^bui his Tonnes fonne , to wit fon- 
 ne and hcyre to the excellent and renounced 
 black Prince ofwales,ihis Richard (I fay) for- King Ri- 
 gettingthemiferableendof his great grand fa- chard 2. 1 
 ther for euelgouerment,asalfo the felicity, and ^^^^ 
 vertueof his father and grand father: for the 
 contrary, fufFcred himftlfe to be abufed and 
 mifled byeuelcouncellors, to the great hurre 
 & difquietnes of the realme. For which caufe 
 after he had raigned 21. yeares he was alfo 
 depofed^by ad of parlamat holden in London, 
 the yeare of our Lord 1399. and condemned Polyd.l. 
 to perpetual prifon in the cartel of Pom fret Aug 
 vvher he was foone after put to death alio and 
 yfedas the other before had bin, and in this 
 F 3 manncs 
 
Co A Conference touching fuccefton 
 manes place by fiee elecli5 was chcJIfen for king 
 the noble knighr Henry Duke of Lacafter who 
 proned afterwards fo notable a king as the 
 World knowerh^and was father tolcing Henry 
 ?he fifth furnamcd commonly the Alexander 
 of Ingland^for that as Alexander r he great con^ 
 quered the moft parte of Afia in the fpace of 9. 
 or lo.yearesfodid this Heniy conqucrejFrance 
 in lelfe then the like ty me. 
 King HjJr. I might recon alfoin this number of Princes 
 Sepo^cd. depofed for deftft in gouermer (though other- 
 wife he vvereno cuel man inlyfe) this king 
 Henry the fourths nephew I meane kmg Hen- 
 ?olyd,lib. ry the fixt who after aimoft forty yeares 
 23.hiftor. reigne wasdepofedjand imprifoned^and put to 
 ^ death alfo, together with his fonne the Prince 
 of wales^by Edward the fourth of the howfe of 
 yorke,& the fame was confirmed by the com- 
 mons and efpecially by the people of London, 
 and afterwards alfo by publiqueact of parlia- 
 ment, in refpeil not only of the title which 
 king Edward pretended, but alfo and efpecial- 
 ly for rhat king Henry did fuffer himfelfe to be 
 ouerruled by the Qucene his wife,and had bro- 
 ken the articles of agrement, made by theparla- 
 menr^betwene him and theDuke of Yorke and 
 folemnly fwoieonboth fides,the 8. ofOdob, 
 in the yeare 14J9. In punifhment wherof 
 and ofhis other negligent and euel gouermet, 
 ^though for his owneparticuler life he was a 
 good man as hath bin faid) fentencc was giueii 
 agaynft him^panly by force and partly by law. 
 
to the^dt^ne. Tdrt i.Cap. III. 6i 
 
 and king Edward the fourth was put in his 
 place,who was no cuel king as al IngUf h men 
 vvel know, but one of the renoumedft for 
 martial ades and iuftice that hath worne the 
 Inglifhcrownc. 
 
 Bat after this man agavnc, ther fel an other ^-ing^t- 
 
 . , I o 1 • 1 chard 5. 
 
 accidenrmuch more noronous, vvnicn waSj^cpofcd. 
 that Richard Duke of Gioceftcr , this king 
 Edwards yonger brother, did piir to death his 
 two nephewes,this mans children, to vvit^king 
 Edwvd the fifth and his litle brother , Sc made 
 himfclfe king, and albei): he fynned gieuoufly 
 by taking vppon him the crowne in this wic- 
 ked manner yet when his nephewcs were once 
 dead, he might in reafon fceme to be lawful 
 king,both in rcfped that he was the next male 
 in blood after his faid brother, as alio for that 
 bydiuersafts of parlament, both before and 
 after the death ofthos infantes ^ his title was 
 authorized and made good , and yet no man 
 vvil fay (1 thinke) but that he was lawfully alfo 
 depo(ed,agayne afterward, by the como wealth, 
 which called out of France, Henry Earle ofAn.H^r* 
 Richmond to chaftife him , and to put him 
 dovvne^and fo he did,and tooke from him both 
 life and kingdome in the fielde, and was king 
 himfelfeafter him by filename of king Henry 
 the feuenth, and no man I fuppofe, vvil fay but 
 that he waslawfuUy king alfo, which yet can- 
 not be, except the other might lawfully be de- 
 pored,& moreoucr asl faydai the,beginning,I 
 would haue you condd.er in al ihes mutations, 
 
 F 4 what 
 
6i A Conference touching fufcefwn 
 what men commonly haue fucceded in the pla- 
 ces of fuch as haue bin depofcd, as namely in 
 A point Ingland,in the place ofihos fine Kings before 
 Silnated named that were depriued , to wir, lohn^ 
 Edward the fecond, Richard the fccond, Henry 
 the fixr, and Richard the thiid^ther haqe fucce- 
 dcd the ihree Hentyes , to wit, the third ^ 
 fourth, and feuenth,& two Edwards, the third 
 and fourth, al moft rare & valiant Princes, who 
 haue donne hifinit importanr a6ls in iheir co- 
 mon vveakhes^and aiiiong other, hauerayffd 
 many houfes to nobility, put downe others^ 
 changed ftates both abioad and at home,diftri- 
 biKedeccIeliadicaldignityes, altredthe courfe, 
 ofdifcent in the blood royal, and the like, al 
 which wasioiuft,andis voydat this day if the 
 chviinges and depriuations of the former Prin- 
 ces could not be made, and confequently none 
 of thes that do pietende th^ crowrie of Ingland^ 
 at this day , can haue any title at al,for that from 
 thosmen they xlifcende who were put vp iti 
 place of the depriued. 
 
 And this may befufficient for proofeof the 
 two principal poyjits,which you required to be 
 difculftd in the beginning of this fpech, to \^it, 
 that lawful Princes haue oftentymes by theic 
 common wealthes bin lawfully depofed , for 
 mifgouermcntjand that God hath allowed and 
 aflilled the fame, with good fuccelle vnto the 
 w^eal publique,andifthis be fo^or might be fo, 
 in kmgs lawfully fct in pofleifion , then mucl^ 
 ipore hath the faid common wealth power & 
 
 authority 
 
to the croT^pe. Tart i. Cap. 1 1 11. 6j 
 
 ^mhoi ity to alter the fucccflionof fuch as do 
 but yet pretend to ihat dignity , ifthcr be dew 
 rrafonandcaufes for thefame, which is the 
 head poy nt that rirfi: we began to trcate of faide 
 the Ciuilian,and with this ended his fp^ech 
 without faying any more. 
 
 VVHEPJN CONSISTETH 
 
 PRINCIPALLY THE LAVFVL- 
 
 KES OF PROCEEDING A G A Y N S T 
 Tmces^h 'icb in the former chapter is metwmd: i^hat 
 ifiterefi Princes haue in their fttbiecls goods or litics^ 
 hol0 oihes doth hinde or may be broken by fub- 
 tells toT^ards Frinces.and finally the dif- 
 ference betn^ene a good king arid 
 a Tira?2t. 
 
 Chav. IIIL 
 
 T 7 \ 7Hen the Cipihan had ended his J^^^'/Pir 
 V V fpeech, the temporal lawyer looked porai la- 
 vppon the ftaders by, to fee whether any would 
 reply or no, and perccauing al to hold ther 
 peace, he began to fay in this maner: Truly Syr 
 I cannot deny^buf the examples are mmy that 
 yon hauealleaged^and they feme to prone fuf- 
 ficiently that which you affirmed, at the begin- ' 
 iiing^towit, that the Princes by you named, 
 weredepriued , and put dovv-ne by their com*- 
 mon v^ealrhes for ther euel gouerment. A\)(\ 
 good fuccellbrs com.monly rayfed vp in their 
 ^places , and that the common wealth had au- 
 
 j thority 
 
€4 ^ Conference touching fuccefton 
 thority alfo to do it I do not greatly doubt, at 
 leaftwire, theydidit,rfe/^Sa, and now to cal 
 thes fades in queftion^ wcie to etr-broyle and 
 turne vp-fide-downe al iheftatesof Chiilkn. 
 dom,as you hauc wel fignified , bat yet for that 
 you haue added this vvord lawfully (6 many 
 ty mes^in the couife of your narration, 1 would 
 you tooke the payne to tcl vs alfo,by vv hat law, 
 Beiloy ihey didrhefime, feing that BeUojwhom you 
 apoiog. haue named before, and fomc other of his opi- 
 ^fJ^J*^ nion do affirme, that albeit by nature the com- 
 paragraf. mon wealth haue^authotity ouer the Prince, 
 pr?rcgc!.' chufc and appoync him, at the beginning, as 
 you haue wel proued out of Anftotle and other 
 vvayes: yet hauing once made him , and giuen 
 vpal their authority vnto him , he is now no 
 morefubiedl: to thercortci^-ionjOr reftraynt,but 
 remayneth abfolute of himfelfe without re- 
 (pedt to anyobutonly to godalonc.vvhich they 
 proue by the example of euery partici^ler man, 
 that hath authority to make his Matter or Prin- 
 ce, of his inferior , but not afterwards to put 
 him downe agayne , or to depriuc him of the 
 authority which he gauc him, though he 
 fhould notbearehimfelfs wel and gratefully, 
 but difcourtious rather & iniurioufiy towards 
 him thai gaue him firft this authority. 
 An obic. To which alfo they do alleagc the fpeech of 
 oHhe^"*^^^^ prophet Samuel y in the firft bookeof the 
 prophet kings,vvher the people of Ifrael deraaunded to 
 Saaiud. haueaking to gouernc ouer them , as other 
 nations round about them had^ and to Icauc 
 
 the go- 
 
uthecroT^ne. T4Yf i. Cap. Ill L 6j 
 
 the gouerrrent of the high Priefte vnder w hom 
 at that^ay they were. Ar which demaund both 
 God himfelfc and Samuel were greuioufly of- 
 fended, and Samuel by Gods txptelTe order, 
 protefted vnto them in this manner, (quoth i.Ktg.^, 
 he)yoni!pilhiiueA l^ig.harken then to this that l ^il 
 fajf. Hoc entim regis, qui imperatmis efivobis,this 
 i nalbethe right and pbwer of the king ihatrhePo- 
 fhal rule oueryou,tovvir,hefhai take fio you vverofa 
 your children both fonnes and daughters^your rather oV 
 - ficldcs &c vinyards,your harueft alfo and rents, *Tirajic. 
 \our{cruants,handmaydes, & heaidsofcatle, 
 andfhal giae them to his fcruants md you 
 f hai cry vnto God in that day, from the face of 
 thisyourking, whom you hauechofen, and** 
 God f hal not heare you> for that you hane de- »» 
 maunded a king to gouerne you , thus far the » 
 Prophet. " 
 
 Outofal which difcourfe and fpcch of the 
 Prophet^thes men do gather^ that a k ing is no- 
 thing forcftrayned in his power or limited to 
 law as yoahaue affirmed , but rather that his 
 law is his own wil, as by thes vvordes of the 
 Prophet may appcare, and much Icllc may the 
 commonwealth chaftice or depriue him for 
 cxceding thelimitesoflaw , or doing his vvil, 
 feing that here in this place , God doth foretcl 
 that Princes ofientymes fhal commit ejtceffes 
 andiniuries^andyet doth he not therfore vvil, 
 ihem to chaften or depofe them , for the fame 
 but rather infinuateth that they mult take it 
 paciently,foc their linnes,and cr^ to God for re- 
 medy 
 
66 A. Conference touching fuccepon 
 medv and perfeuer therin though he do not at 
 the firft harken to them,orgrant thcincdrellc*, 
 hitherto the temporal lawyer, 'i , . 
 
 Whcrunto anfwered the Ciuiliair, rhat he 
 , confelTed^that Btlloy &orherhispompanioas 
 that wrote in flarteiy of Princes in thes our 
 daycs,did noi only affirme thes things^ that the 
 temporal lawyer hadalleagcd^^;^^ that^Prmces 
 T^ere la^kjfe aud fubieil-to no acconipt^nafon^-pr cor^ 
 re[tton,lplutfocutr they did, bat alto (which is yec 
 more ablurd and pernicious to al common 
 Bclloya- vvealthes) tlut al^o.ods chattels , poffefsions and 
 par^2.pa '^l^^^foeua ds commodttjes teniporal, of the common 
 rag 7- Sc l^ealthy are properly the kingSy ami that their fubiects 
 cl!^ A^w^ only the vfe therof li^tthout any propriety at al, fa 
 as Tvhen the ktng he may take it from them by 
 ri^&r, without iniuftice or iniury, which aflcr- 
 tions do oner throw w holy the very nature &c 
 fubftance of a common wealth, it felfe. 
 Great ab. Eorfirftto fay that a king is fubied to no 
 iUrdities lawor limitation at al , hut may do what he 
 iSs. wil^isagainftalthat Ihaue alleaged before of 
 the very inftirution of a commo wealth,whichL 
 was to line together in iuftice and order, & as 
 I fhewed out of Cicero fpeaking of the firft 
 cic iib.i. ^^*^g^> luflitt<tfrmnddLcaufabenem9rati?.egesoltm^ 
 o&Lc. funt conjlituti.¥ox Qciioying oflulticc vv'ere kings 
 appointed in old lyme that were of good 1 ifc, 
 but if they be baud to no iuftice at al, but muft 
 be botne and obey^d.be they neuer Co wickod, 
 then is this end and butte of the common 
 weaUh,& of alroyal authority, vttedy fruftrat : 
 
 then 
 
tothecrol^nc. Varf i. Cap. II I L 6j 
 then may we fct vp publique niurderours ra- 
 viifhers theeuesand (povlers todeuowre vs in 
 fteed cfkings^and goaerr.ours to defend vs^for 
 fuch in decde are kmgs> that folicw no lavv^but 
 painon and fenfuahtie, and do commie jniu- 
 fticc,by their pubhque authority, & then final- 
 ly, were al thos kings before mentioned both 
 of the lewesjgentilcsand chnitiaiis vnlawfully 
 depriued,,and ther fucccflcrsvnlawfiilly pur vp 
 in their places^ and conftquentlyal Princes h- 
 uing inChriftianity at this day, who are de{^ 
 cendedofthcm , are intruders and no iawful 
 Princes. 
 
 By the fecond lay ing alfo^ that al temporah*- ^^^^^ 
 tyes are properly the Princes, a,nd that fubiefts abfurdity. 
 haiieonly the \k therof without any intereft 
 of their owne , no lefle abfurdityes do follow, 
 then of the former aflertion, for that firft , it is 
 againftthe very firft principle andfouudation 
 ofourciuillaw , which at the firft entrance inffimt. 
 and beginning fnaketh this diuifion of goods, j^^P^ij^^ 
 that fome are commou hy nature to al men, as the ayer ^* 
 the fea and the like , other are publique to al of one 
 citty or country, but yet not conwwn to al'tn general^ as j^j^j^^j^ 
 riuersportes and other fuch: fome are of the communis of goods 
 ty of -A citty or common T^ealth, but yet not common to i^^^^^^^ 
 euery parttculer perfon ofthdt citty, as common rents, 
 theators.thepuhltque houfe.and the like : fome are of 
 none nor properly of any mans goods, a^s churches and 
 facred things, (jr fome are proper to particuler men, as 
 thoslt?hich euery manpofeffeth vfhis o>ne , which 
 diuifion^ of luftinian the Emperor and his moft - 
 
 karned 
 
6% A Confermce touching facccfton 
 
 learned lawyers i<; not good, if the Prince be 
 Lord proprietaneofnl : nay he that made this 
 diuifioHybeing Emperor , did great iniury alfo 
 tohimlelfe, m afllgning that toothers, which 
 by the opinion of Belloy and his fellowes was 
 propcily & truly his owne^ in that he was Em- 
 ^ pcrorand Lord ofthe world* 
 Planes 5c Befides ai this, fo abfurd a laying is this, as it 
 liccmcn. ouenhrovveth the whole nature of acommon 
 wealth it felfe,and maketh al fubiec^ts to be but 
 very flaucs: For that flaues and bondmen, as 
 Ariftotle fayeth in this do differ from freemen, 
 Arift. lib. jj^^j Haucs hauc only the vfe of things without 
 4.Sc/. property or mter^lt, and cannot acquire or getc 
 toihemfclues any dprninion or true right in 
 any thing,for that what foeuer they do getr , it 
 accreweth to their mafter^, & not to thdfekies^ 
 and for that the condition of an oxe or an affe, 
 is the very fame in refpedl of a poorc man,that 
 hathnoflaue^ for that the oxe or alle getteih 
 nothing to himfclfe^ but only to his mafter,and 
 can be lord of nothing of that for which he 
 laborerh: for this caufe, wittcly alfo fayed Ari- 
 Arift.li.u ftotle, that bos aut afinus pauperi a^rkok pro fcruo 
 efl. An oxe or an alle, is to a pooie huf badman 
 infteed of a bondman, and fo feing that Belloy 
 wilneedcshaue theftare and condicion of ai 
 Ibbiedtstobelikevnio this in rcfpedt of their 
 Prince, and that they haue nothing in pro. 
 thiT^^a- P^i^fy > ^^^^ <>"ly ^he vfe, and that al domi- 
 ^on. nion is properly the Princes: what doth the 
 other then make al fubicdbs not only flaucs 
 
 but alio 
 
to the CYol^fit Tart I. Cap, HIT. ^(S 
 but aUo oxen and aiTes, znd pecora camp. 
 
 Laftofal (fori vvil not oueilode you ^vith^j^^ 
 tcafons m a niauer fo euident) if al fubiedls rcafons 
 goods be properly the kings, why then vvas^gj^*^^ 
 Achab 2nd lez^^Wkuigand Queene oflfracl, 
 fo lepre bended by EHas & fo punif hed by god, 
 for taking away Sabothes vitieyard?feing they 
 tooke but that vv hich was ther owne? nay why 
 was rot Naboth acculed of iniquity rebcUion j.Rcg.ir: 
 and trea fon/or that he did not yeald vp prefcnt- 
 ly his vineyard,when his Princes , deraaunded 
 the (ame,(eing it vvas not his, but thers V why 
 do the kings of Ingland France and Spayne^ 
 afke money of their fubieds in parlaments , if 
 they might take it as ther owne ? why are thos 
 contributions termed by the names of fubfi- 
 dies,hclpes,beneuolences,lones,preftSjCo»mir(i* 
 lidns^^ud the hke, if al be dew and not volunta- 
 ry of the fubieds partef How hauc parlaments 
 ofrentymesdenyed to their Princes fuch helpes 
 ofmoney^ asihey demaunded ? Why are their 
 iudges appoynted to determyne matter , of 
 futes and pleas between the Prince and his fub* 
 ieds^ifalbehis and the fubied haue nothing 
 of his owne? And laftofal why doth the Can- 
 non Law,which is a part alfo of my profefljon, 
 and receaued in moft countries of the vvorld,fo cap. in<v 
 ftraiphtly inhibit al Princes vppon payneof ex- "^musio. 
 !Communication,to mipofc new impohtions & bus & c. 
 taxes, vppon ther people without great con{!-^"P^'^«i- 
 deration and neceffity, and freeconfentof the j^.^.d? 
 giucrs,ifal be the Princes and nothing of the 
 
70 A Confereucetouchirg fuccefm 
 
 fiibied? nay whybs al Princes generally at this 
 daye prohibited ro alienat any thing oFrhcii* 
 owne cro vvne without confent ofther people^ 
 if they only be Lords of al^and the people haue 
 intercft in norhing ? 
 The an- hereby alio we may gather , what the 
 
 fvvercto Prophet Samuel meant, when he threatncd 
 aion out ^'^^ I^wes with the diforders of kings , that 
 of the pro f hoi)ld raigne ouet them^ not, ihatthesdifor-, 
 mud^^" d>eis vverelawfulorappertayncd toa rightious 
 king, but that feing they rcfafed to be vnder 
 the moderate gouermet of their high ptiefts, & 
 other gouernors which God had giueii them 
 hitherto, and required to be ruled by kings as 
 ocher heathen nations of Egypt,Babilan,Syria, 
 and Perfia were , w hos manner of gouermenr^ 
 not only Hi(loriographers,but Philofophcrf^ 
 Arift.l. 5. alfo^and Ariftotle among the reft,doth note to 
 iofeph.V6 hai>e bin very tyranical ; yet for that the lewes 
 anti4.c.4. vwuld needs haue that gouerment as a matter 
 of morepompeand glory then that which hi- 
 therto they had had, Samuel did firft rnfinuarc 
 vnto them, what cxtorfion and wickednes rhoa 
 heathen kings did vfe commonly ouer the^ 
 peoplc^in taking their childrc, feruantSjWiucs, 
 goodSj and the like from them, and that manv 
 kings of Ifrael f hould do the like, and take ic 
 for ther right and foucrainty , and fhould op- 
 prefle and tyrani(c ouer them,ahd inforce them 
 to cry cut to God forheipe, and they fhould 
 not find remedy , for that fo heddyly thej had 
 demauhdcd this change of gouerment , which 
 
 highly 
 
totbecron^fie. ?4rt I. Cap. II 1 1. 71 
 
 highlv difpUifc-d almighty God,and this is the 
 true meaning of that placc^ifit be vvel confide- 
 red , and not to authorize herby iniuftice or 
 Wickednes"in any kmg , feing the principal 
 poynts recdided to al Princes & kings throngh 
 out the whole courfc of fcriprure,are dtltgeretu- 
 dtcmn & hiflntam,appTehenderedtfctplwam:& face- 
 rs veritateniyihsLi is ro fayc to loue iudgmenc and 
 iuftice to admit difcipline & to execute truih, 
 and this isiheinftrudion that God gaae tochc 
 levves in Dcutronomj for their kings when they 
 Ihould haue them. which God foretould many j.Reg.Y.' 
 ye;ircs before they had any , and this ih the ad- 
 monition that king Dauid left vnto his fonne * 
 andfncceiror^*i/o;;j^«, at his death, and by him 
 to al otherkings and Princes, and for want of 
 obf:?raingihes points o/i«rf^Wf«f , iufitct^ difci- 
 pUne^6i truth, we fee not only AchahznA Jesiabel. 
 Before mentioned grcuioiifly punifhed , but 
 many other kings alio by God himfelfe, as 
 Achaz. Manages, loachhn.^ind the like,Hhich had 
 not bin iuftice on Gods part io to punifh th^ih 
 if it had bin lawful for them to vfethat man- 
 ner of proceeding towards their people, as thes 
 good inftru(Sors of Princes in ourdayes, mcft 
 fondly and wickedly do affirme^and thus ihuch 
 for that place. 
 
 ^ But to the firft point which you aflced, byByvThar ^ 
 what law the common wcalthes that are raen-iawPrin. 
 tioned in the former chapters, did punifh their ^^f^^if^^^ 
 .cuel Pria^es: I haueanfwered vou before , that ^""^ 
 it is by al law both diuine and humane: din ine, 
 
 G for that 
 
72. A Confef me touching fuccefm 
 for that God doth approue that forme of goi 
 uerment which eueiy common vveahh doth 
 chufe vntoitfclfe, as alfo the conditions, fta- 
 tutesand hmitarions which it fdfe Ih.il ap- 
 poynt vnto hci Princes, as largely before hathe 
 bindedarcd. Andby al humane law alio ; for 
 that al law both natural, national, and pofitiue> 
 doth leach vs,that Princes are fi:bic<ft to Jaw & 
 order, and that the common wealth which 
 gaue them ther au thority for the com mo good 
 of al, may alfo reftrayne or take the fame away 
 agayne, if they abufe it toihe common cuel. 
 ThcdifFc- And vvheras thes men (aye , that like as if x 
 uvcne a p^uate man^ hould make his inferior or equal 
 priuat ma ro bc his Prince,he could not after reftrayne the 
 mon^^^ fame agayne, and fo nether the commo wealth 
 malih. hauingonce deliuercd away her authority : 1 
 anfwerc, fiift, that the comparifon is not alto- 
 gether like, for that a priuat man though he 
 giue his voi.ce to make a Prince ^ yet he being 
 butonemaketh not the Prince vvholy as the 
 commonwealth doth, andiherfore no mar- 
 uailc though u lye not in a particuler mans had 
 tovnmakehim agayne, befidesthis, a priuat 
 man hauinggiuchjs voice to make his Prince, 
 remayneth lubic6t and inferior to the fame, 
 but the whole body though it be gouerned by 
 the Prince as by the head, yet is in not inferior 
 but (uperior ro the Prince, nether fo giueth the 
 common wcalfh her authority and power vp 
 to any Prince, that fhe depriueth her felfc vt- 
 rerly of the fame, when neede f hall require, to 
 
 vfeit 
 
to the ctol^rte. Tart t. CAt. HIT. 73 
 vfeit forherdffencCjfor which fheegaueit. 
 
 And finally (which i<; the chetfeft rcafon of 
 al, (5: the very ground and foundation in deeds 
 ofal kingsauthoruy among chrillians; thepo- 
 \ver and anthoriry which the Prince hath from 
 the common wealth is in very truth, nor abTo- 
 lucfjbur pote(lasvtcaridordehgata, as we Ciui- ThePrfnir 
 lians cal it 5 that is to fay, a power delegate, or ^^^^^ 
 power by commiflio from the commo wealthy fubdciL 
 which is giuen with fuch leftridions cautels S^^^ 
 and conditions, yea , with fuch play ne excep- 
 tions, promiles, andothes of both parties, (I 
 meane betwene the king and common wealth 
 at the day of his admidion or coronation) as jf 
 the fame be not kept,but wilfully broken , on 
 ether part,then is the other not bounde to ob- 
 ferue his promife nether, though neuerlb fo- 
 lemly made or fworne,foc that in al bargaines^ 
 agreements and contrads , wher one parte is 
 bound mutually and reciprocally to the other, 
 by oth,vow,or condition, ther, if one fide go 
 fiom his promife,the otiier ftadeth not obliged 
 toperformehisrandrhis is fo notorious by al 
 laWjboth of naturesnd nations, and fo coform 
 toal reafon and equity, that it is put among 
 the very rules of both the Ciuil and cannon 
 law,vvher it isfaid , frujlrupdcm fihi qnii pofiulat 
 feruariabeo^ cut fidem a feprefiitamferuare recufat, in regalis* 
 Hedoth in vaine require promifle to be ^^pt j^^l^^JJ^^ 
 vnto him at an other mans hands, to whom he in fine 
 refufethtoperforme that which himftlfe pro- ^^^[V^g' 
 mifcd, and agay ne* Nd» ahjlringitur quis mmm- 7s €9. 
 
 G 1 toad 
 
74 A ConfcYence touching fuccepoft 
 
 ad mfitndmuquod iurauit.fi ab alto parte mn itn^ 
 plettn,cumrefpe£lupubuitmamentum. A man is 
 not bound to peiformc th.it which by pth he 
 piomifed, if on theothcr part, that be not per- 
 formed^in rf.fprd wherof this orh was made: 
 for example,iftvvo fhould fweare the one to 
 aifift the o.her vppon the way, \n al refpeds, & 
 after falling vppon enimyes that were ether 
 kynn or freds to the one of thent^ & he fhould 
 take rher parr againft his fellow, clecre it is,that 
 the oihct were not bound tokepehis oth to* 
 wards that party, that hath fo wickedly bro* 
 ken It to him. 
 
 Nay nor only, in this cafe, that is fo euident^ 
 and palpable by nature it feltc: but in many 
 other alfo, is u both lawful honeft and conue- 
 nienr,tolraut fometymesthe performance pf 
 onr oih, as namely when the fulfilling therofj 
 fhould conteyneany notable hurt or inconuc- 
 iiiencc againft religion,piery , iuftice , honefty^ 
 or the weal publique,or againft the party him- 
 fcifc to whom it was made, as if a man had 
 (wometoreftoreafword to a madd or furious 
 tT>an, wher with it were likely he would de- 
 ftrcy burfclfe and others, and other likecafes^ 
 V>hich Cicero putteth downein his fi ft bookc 
 ofc ffic.s, and deduccrh them from the very 
 gKHind of nature,and leafon it felfe, & fayeth^ 
 that it X'v ere contrary ro the dewty of a good 
 orl oncft man, in luch cafes to perfoime his 
 piomifc. 
 
 Ourdiuinesalfo doalledge the example of 
 
 Herod 
 
to thecro^ne. Tart i . C a p. 1 1 1 1. js 
 Herod thar had (vvorne to the daughrcr of He- 
 rodias,rogiiiehir what the dcjTiaundcd, vvho^ 
 demaiiding the head of S.Ioi: a Baptilt, rhoiigh '^^ 
 Herod were fory for the fame^ yctfayeth the 
 text, that for his athes fake he commaunded 'tt to be 
 performed, v^hichyet no man v\il deny, but rhac 
 it had bin far better left vnperformed, and the 
 othe better broken then fulfilled, according to 
 an other rule of the law, which fayeth. In tnalis Regui 68.. 
 fromifisfidemnonexpediiobfernariy it is norcxpe- p^^^^j^* 
 dient to kcepe our piomife in things cuel pio- 
 xnifed. 
 
 And finally to thispurpofe,to wit, todeter- 
 myne how many waves an oih ttiken may be 
 lawfully broken^or not keptj ther is a whole 
 title in the Cannon [aw, conteyning ^6. chap- Decrct. 
 ters, wherin are fct downe many and di urs 9^^^ ^- ^* 
 moft excellent, andenident cafes, about the ^ "^^ 
 fame determined by Gregorie the firft, 8c other 
 ancient Popes and Dodors, and in the fccond 
 parte of the decretal thcr is alleaged this fcii. t n- 
 ce out of ifidoruSy and eftablifbed for b w. In w^- 
 lis promifsis refcmie fidem^ m turpi vGtQ muta dcrre- 
 tum.impid enimpromifsto, qndifcekre impletnr, \ \\u\tiz^ 
 is.incuelpromiiesperforme not your worde, ^"^^-^ ^* 
 m an vnlawful vow or oih, change your deter, per tow. 
 mination, for ir is an impious promilTe, which 
 cannot be fulfilled,but with wickednes,and the 
 very fame matter is handled in the queftio fol- 
 lowing which is the fyfth through-out ij. 
 whole chapters together. 
 
 Soas^ nothing is more largely handled in 
 G 5 our law 
 
7^ A Conferencetmchhtgfuecefion 
 our law both Ciuil and Canon, then this mat- 
 ter of promifles,and orhes, how and vvhen,and 
 why,and in what cafes , they hoold or bynde, 
 Tvvoprln and whcH not. Al which to apply it now vnto 
 cipaicaics ourmattet ofkinss, that we hauein haiide.we 
 
 when 1 n 1 ^ r 
 
 pthcs are to vnderltande that two euio i)t calcs aic 
 tpvvads ^^^^^^^ ^^^^ you fee , when a fubiedts oth 
 $Princc. or promife of obedience^ may be left vnper for-? 
 med to\yards has Princeuhe firft whc the Piince 
 obferueth notatal his promlffe and oth made 
 to the common wcahh, at his admiflion pj: 
 coronition,&the other when it fhouldtui;ne 
 to the notable damage of iheweale pabhque, 
 (for whos only good the Princes office was ov- 
 deyned,as often before hath bin faid and pro- 
 lied) if the fubie6l fhouldkeepeard performe 
 his oth and promiffe made vnto his Prmce. 
 
 And both thes cafes arc touched in thcde- 
 priiiation of ChiMenke the lafl: king of F;ance, 
 of the firft lyne of Pharamond , which was re- 
 counted in \ he former chapter, f r that as Pau-^ 
 iLmii U ^^E^^^^j^^(f<?'''"^A G^y^^'^> and other French 
 hiil.Fiic ftoriesdo teftify^thebifhop of v^^)tirburg,that 
 vKachu"^" the n:ime uf al the nobility and common 
 dcr Gi- wealth of France, made his fpeech to Zacharie 
 xaiQ ab.3 jj^e pope5for his depofition^and for the i leflion 
 of Pcpm in his place, alleaged thes two rcafons 
 Thefpcch faying. 
 
 ofrhe Truth it is, that the French haue fwornc fi- 
 Embafla- i^^lity vnroChilderick,a$tothertrue and na- 
 dorfordctiiralkingibut yet with condition, that he oa 
 Tfliieir" his part, fhoulda,lfo peif^rme^he points that 
 king, ^ ate in- 
 
to the croons. Part i. Cap. lllL 77 
 I are incident to his office, which are, to defend ,s 
 j the common wealth, proted the church of,> 
 I chrift,refiftthevvickcd,aduance the good and,, 
 1 the like: and ifhe do this, then the French are „ 
 redy to cotinew ther obedience and allegeanceu 
 vnto him : but if he be apt for none of thes,, 
 I things,nether fic^ether for a Captaine in ware, 
 or for a head in peace,and if nothing els may be ,« 
 cxpeded whiles he is king,but detriment to the 
 ftate,ignominy to the nation , danger to chri-o 
 I ftian religion,anddiftru6tion to the weal pu-i> 
 i blique:then it is law fal for you no donbt(moft ,> 
 holy father) to dcliuer the French from this,, 
 band of their oth, & to teftifie that no promife 
 j can bynd th^s natio in pirticuler^ to that which 
 I jnay be hurtful to al chriftendom ingeneral.,, 
 I Thus far that bifhop,& his fpcch was allowed 
 & Childerickdepofedjand Pepin madeki.ig in 
 his place as the world k noweth. 
 
 By this the you fcejfiid the Ciuilian lawyer, The con= 
 the ground \\ heron dependeth the rightious & ^^^^^^^^ 
 lawful depofition and chaltifment of wicked vvhen 
 Princes, to wit ther fayling in ther oth & pro- 
 mifeSj which they made at ther firft entrance, dcVub-' 
 that they would rule and gouerne iuftly, accor-^^^^s. 
 ding to law, confcience, equity , and religion, 
 wKerin when theyfaylc, or wilfully decline, 
 calling behjtid them alrefpeil of obligation & 
 dewty to the end forvvJiich they were made 
 Princes and aduanced iridignity aboue the reft, 
 then is the common wealth not only free from 
 al oths made by her of obedience or allegiance 
 
 4 to fuch 
 
78 A C inference mcbingfuccepon 
 to fuch vnworthy Princes , but is bounc^ 
 moreouct forlauing the whole body, to re- 
 fill: chaften and remoue fuch euel heades , if 
 fhe be able,for that otherwifc al would come 
 to diftrudion, ruyne^ and pnblique defoU- 
 Uon. 
 
 The dif hcere now come in, a! thos cofideranos 
 
 ^ence be- vvhich old philofophcrs, lawmakers, and fuch 
 ^'^"1^^^ others as haue treated of common vvealthes, 
 tyrant, aie vvont tQ lay downe, of the difference and 
 contrariety betweneakingand a tyrant^ for 
 riat dial, that a king (as both Plaro and Ariftotle do dc^ 
 ^ub^ clare) vvhe once he declyneth from hisdewty, 
 Arift.ii.a. becommeth a tyrant, that is to fay, ofthebel^ 
 and mod foiierainc ^hing vppon earth , the 
 worft and mod huit-ful creature vnder heauen 
 for that as the end & office of a king is to make 
 happy hi^ commo wealth, (o the butt of a ty- 
 rat is to dcftroy the fatne. And finally the whole 
 difference is reduced to the principal head 
 that before I haue mentioned, to wit, that a 
 > king ruleih according to equity , oth , confci- 
 ence,iuftice,andlawpre(cribed vnio him: and 
 the other is enemy toal thes c6ditions,whtrof 
 ifyou wil read many more particulers & fignes 
 to know a tyrant by, I wil remit you to a Cpc^ 
 cialbookefet forth of this matter, byoneBar- 
 ^nnnU^ tolus fiihcr (as yow know) of our Ciuil law, 
 de. wher the matter is hadled largely^ as alfo how 
 lav\ful and commendable it is to rcfift any ty- 
 rant, and finally heconcludeth with Cicero 
 ii^ his bookes dele^ibus^ vvhcr he fayeih, vt po^ 
 
to the cm^m. Tart i . C a p. 11 I T. 79 
 fulo magtjiram , iu inagijlratui prefunt leges. A cicero.lL 
 good Piinccor Magiltrate maketh his accept, 
 that as he IS ouer the people, folavves are oner 
 him^and a ry rant the contrary. And greatly is Cod.l.t, 
 commended the faying of Theodofm and Valen- ^^^^j^J* 
 fim4«,rvvos^orthy Emperors, recorded in our 
 ciuil law who fayd: Digna vox tit maieftate regna^ 
 tisJegibiis fealligaumfateri. It is a fpcch worthy 
 of the maieily of him that reigncth, to confeilc 
 that he is bound vnto the lawes, and the con- 
 trary fa y it? gofihcTyrant Catus Calignla, i s i u ft 1 \r 
 dctefted by al writers , who faid vnto one as 
 Suetonius reportcth. Memento wthi omnia & 
 pww^ /iarr,icmember,thatal things are lawful in Calig. 
 vnto me and againft al men without exception. 
 The laying alio of the famous EmperorTra- ^om-i 
 ian deferueth immortal memory and commcn-*"^^^^*"* 
 dation, who when hedehuered thelword to a 
 pretoror gouernour of Rome, to do ioftice, 
 he added thes wordes. Take this fj^ord , and if I 
 doreigneiuftly,x[eitfoY7ne^ mdtf net, then vfe it 
 agamjtme. Which in efFe<9t and fubftance are 
 the very fame vvprdes which our chriftian 
 Princes at this day do vfe at their entrance and 
 coronations, when they promife and fsveare to 
 rule iuftly,and according to ihe lawes ftatutes, 
 and ordinances of their countrey, and vppon 
 that condicion do take the orhes of their fub- 
 ieds obedience, piotefting iher vvith-al, that 
 if they perfonne not thii^thM wen their fubteils are jreelt^^c^f^ 
 as before from al allegeance.^nd then may the com-iowing, j 
 moa wealth as alib the very officers themfel- 
 
 G i uesof 
 
So A Conference touching fuccepm 
 lies offuchaking, vfeiherfword againft him, 
 vvhogaueit to them, for the pubisque good, 
 ifneede lb require, asTraiancommaunded. 
 Thc^ It was truly the word of a noble Prince 
 ^i^^^^faidacerraineCapraine of the company ther 
 dicr. prefent , and rightly deferued he to be vvel 
 obeyed, who gaue fo liberal and iuft a com- 
 mifliontobedifobeyed : but for that yap fa id, 
 they that are Princes now a day es do the hke 
 inefFcdlat their admiffion to gouerment and 
 at ther coronations: I would be: glad to heare 
 what they fay or fvveare at this their entrance, 
 for certaine I am that afterwards I find very 
 few Princes, that are contented to haue this 
 point purin excecution, I meane to be difo- 
 beyed whatfoeuer they do,or howfoeuer they 
 line; and moreoucrl fay, that what ibcuer you 
 lawyers fit and talke of. Princes right in your 
 ftudies, yetl findeno wav but hanging for a 
 man of my profeffion , if he fhal diiobcy the 
 worlt Prince that liueth, & you lawyers wilbe 
 the firft that fhal giue fentence againft }iim,if 
 he chance to come before you in ludgment. 
 
 Trueiris,faidthe Ciuilian, wher raacti/il 
 authority taketh place, ther no queftion of 
 right auailcth to be dirputed,& if a lavy ver or 
 any other man els,be in feare or dai( get of his 
 owne life, he wil rather giue fentence againft 
 another, then receaueit againft himfelfe^but 
 
 Tke occa^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'^^^^ "^^^ "^"^y driuen to. 
 fion of do by fcare or force of eucl Princes , but what 
 Sapwt!. i^^igl^^ C(juity, and good con fcicnce may be 
 
 donc^ 
 
tothecifoit?ne. Van i. Cap. 11 II. 8i 
 j done:and this not fo much by priuate or par- 
 j jiculer men (who may not be ouer bulie iu ex- 
 j aminmg Princes rights, or vvhe-ther they per» 
 I forme their duetyesorno^ as by the common 
 weahh,vppon vrgent neccffity and dew delibe- 
 ration had , againft eucl Princes , that breake 
 openly theirothes and prom.ifes made at iheic 
 firftentrance,vvhich promifesfor thatyou arc 
 defirousio vnderftand them, lam content to 
 pafleouer alfo vntothis point, and fo much 
 the rather,fcr that it maktih much to the pur- 
 pofevvehatie in hand, or rather it is, the very 
 true ground m dcedeboih ofal lawful gouer- 
 inent and (ubiedion, among chriftian people. 
 Forthatby this orh, both the Prince and lub- 
 iectdo ; ome to know and agree vppon their 
 daetyes and obligations the one tov\aids the 
 oihf r, as alfo both of the, towards god &c their 
 tiuiuecountrey. But forthatrhis morning 
 (^jeineih now much (pent^and my ftomatk tei- 
 Itth me that ourdinner cannot be far of, lecvs 
 defer this n»atter if you pleafe vntil after noone, 
 at what ty me,we i hal crowne a king betweene 
 vshere, with much more fcciHty when we 
 fhal haue lelle occauons of hungar to diftrad 
 pur cogitations. 
 
 OF THE 
 
ti A Confemce touching fuccef ton 
 
 OF THE CORONA^ 
 
 TION OF PRINCES AND 
 MANNER OF THEIR ADMISSION 
 to thtir author tty^and the othes Tt^hich they 
 do make tn the fame vnto i he com-- 
 mon Ti;ealth, for their good 
 gouerment. 
 
 C A p. V. 
 
 DINNER being ended, the Ciuilian 
 lawyer began to profecute the matter 
 propounded in the end of the former 
 ^p^*" chnpcer^concerning othes and promi- 
 
 ses. * fesmadeby Princesat their firft admilfion to 
 gouerraent,vvherinfirft he declared that for^s 
 much as not nature, but the ele(5lion and con- 
 fent of the people, had made their firft Princes 
 from the beginning of the world, as largely be- 
 fore and often had bmdcmoiiftrated: moftcer- 
 taincitappered , and conforme to al reafon, 
 that they were not preferred to this eminent 
 power and dignity ouer others , without fome 
 conditions and promifes made alfo on their 
 parts,for vfingvvelthisfupreme authority gi- 
 ucn vnto them: feing it is not likely (quoth he) 
 thatany people would eueryeeld to put their 
 liucs^goodes, and liberties in the handes of an 
 other, without fome promife and aifurance of 
 iuftice and equity to be vfed towards them, and 
 hereofhefaid itcame to palfe, that bothe the 
 Romans and Grecians to their ancient kings 
 
 prefcribed 
 
tothecfci^ne. Vart i. Cai>. V. 8j 
 
 jprefc nbed ihofe lawes and limiics , which be- 
 fore hauc bin fptcihcd. 
 
 And in eucry common wealth the morel or- 
 derl) the Prince commeih to his ciowne and 
 dignitv , the moie exprcUe and ceriaine hauc 
 bin ciier thes conditions and agrcments be- 
 rweenc him and the pco,^Ie,as on the other fide 
 the more violently the Prince gctteih his au- 
 thority or by tyranny and difbrdcr, asthos an- 
 cient and firft tyrantcs of Afyria to W'it Nemrod, Entrance 
 JBelusy^vid the like, that by meerc force and of ;tyrants 
 guyle gat rule ouer others, and the old ^i^g^^goucr-^^^ 
 of Egypt and Babilon, and thos of the Roman mem. 
 Emperors that by violence of (buldiars only 
 gat inro theRoyalfeate^andalfuchasat this 
 day do get by force to reigne among the Tur- 
 kes. Amog thes (1 fay) it is no maruaile^tbough 
 fewcodirions of luft dealing may becxpeAed^ 
 though Idoubtnotbut yet to rher followers 
 and aduancers ^ thes men alfo do make large 
 promilt s of good gouerment, at the begining, 
 as a! ambitious men are vvont rodo , though 
 with liilcintentionof perforn ance. 
 
 But in al good and vvel ordered com^mon 
 vveathesvvher matters pafle by leafon^ con- 
 
 jfrience/vvifdomand confultation , andefpe- 
 cially fincechiiftian religion hath preuailed, 8c 
 
 \ giuen peifedVion to that natur^il light , which Jf/rj^jj! 
 morallgood men had before in matters of go- ^ing cnn- 
 uerment: lince thattyme (I fay^^ this point ofg^^j"*^' 
 mutual and reciprocal oihts betweene Princes 
 and fubietls, at the day of ther coronation or 
 
 admiilion 
 
84 ^ A Conference touching fuccej^ibn 
 
 admiffion ((or al ard not crowned j haue bitl 
 mnch more eftablifhed, made cleare and put in 
 vre. And this forme of ao[reemenr and conuen- 
 tion,bcrwenethe common wealth and their 
 chriftian head or king, hath bin rediiced to a 
 more facrcd and religious kmde of vnion and 
 concord^ then before,for that the vv hole a<9^io 
 liaihbindonn bv Bifhopes and ecclefiaftical 
 Prelats,and theaftipularion and ^romifes made 
 on both fides^haue palTc^d and bin giuen, recea- 
 ued and regcftred vvi[h great reuerence in fa- 
 cred places, and with great folemniry oFreh- 
 gious ceremonies, which before vvere not fb 
 much vfed, though alvvayes therweare fome. 
 And therfore our examples at this ryme fhalbe 
 only of chnftian common weaithes, for that 
 they are more peculiarly to our purpof© as you 
 wilconfelTe, 
 
 Fjrft then ro begin with the Eaft or Greekc 
 Emperors of Conftantinople as the moli ani- 
 Ti:e man cient among other, for that after the Empire 
 rerofad- once tranflated from Rome to Conftantinople^ 
 Gicekf by our Conftanline the great,and the fii ft Chri- 
 "^TlieTrT ^^^^ Eniperor that euer did pnbliquely fhew 
 lonatioii! himielfcfor fuch, thesGreeke Emperors were 
 the moft eminent Princes of al chriftianitv, 
 amongvvhomldofinde that albeit ther com- 
 mingto thecrowne were nothing fo orderly, 
 for the moft part as at this d iy it isvfH , but 
 many tymes themeanes therof were tnrbulct 
 and (I'ditious, yet find I fas Ifaye) that oboue a 
 ihoufand yearcs gone^they were wont to haue 
 
 an oih 
 
tothecrol^ne. fart t. Cap. V. 8f 
 an oth exaded at their handcs, by the patriarck 
 ofConftantinople, who was their chiefe Pre- 
 lote/or thus wnteth Zonam of the coronation 
 of Anajlatm the firft, that fuqceded Zcno, about 
 theycaieof Chnft 524, Antequam coronaretur^ zontit. 
 ftdeiconfefsionmfcnftaniyqUiipUtm^ fe ^^^^i^'^^'^f 
 tndttbus Euleftajiicisnthtleffemuatiirum, abtitexegtt ^\x^ ah^:- 
 pawarcha Euphemmvtr fanilus & or t bgdoxus. T lit 
 Patriarch Euphemius being a holy and carho-l<i.cap.29 
 lique maHj, required of Anajtatius elccled Empe- E^agi.l.z^ 
 ror, bcfoie he was crowned a tonfoffioii in^*^'^** 
 writing, wherin he f hould promifTe to change 
 or innouate nothing in matters pertcyning co 
 the doctrine of the church thus much ZonuraSy 
 & the fame haue Nicephom Euagrius & others. 
 
 And not only this, but diueis other condi- 
 tions alfojdoth the fame author infinuate, that 
 this Anapatius promifedat his coronation, be* 
 fore he could b£ crowned , as among other 
 ihings^the taking away of certaine tiibuts and 
 impofitionsjthegiuing of offices without mo- 
 ney,and other hkepoints.appertayning to re- 
 formation and good ■ gouermentj which he 
 performedfora tyme^in the beginning of his 
 gouerment, but after felinto the herefies of 
 the Eutichians,& banifhed this fame good Pa- 
 ! triach Euphemius, that had crowned him, & he 
 thriued therafcer^forthathe was flayne by a 
 thunder bolt from heaue^ after he had reigned 
 27. yeareSiand was accompted for a very wic- 
 ked man^ by al writers, for that he had broken 
 (as they faid) the conditions, quas graui ^iura^ 
 
 mcntd 
 
$6 A Conference touching fucc^fton 
 
 mntofcriptisrelatoconfimalfet.Th^tistoCayyt^^ i 
 conditions which he had confirmed & auowed ^ 
 Vbi fupr. vvith a graue oth as (ayeth Euagms. | 
 The Gre- 'The like/I read about 500. yeares after , rc» i 
 CM Em- corded by the fame auihor of the Emperor ^ 
 och?"^^ M/e'/;.iif/thv-firft,in theswordes. Michael vbi 
 
 luxit^magnam ecciefiam ingreffus^ a Fatriarcha Nice- 
 Zon. T5, i^boro iwpcratorio diademate eft ornatus , poftulato ' 
 iiich!" P^^^ fcripjo^qtio promitteret, fe nulU ecclcfn inftttuta 
 An.zzo. rioUturum.neque chnfttdnortttn fangume manus con^ 
 tammatmum. Which is, Michel new choferi 
 Emperor^ cameearlvin the morning into the 
 great church of Conftantinople , and was 
 crowned ther with the Emperial crowne by 
 the handcs of ^icepborm the Patriach^ but yet fo, 
 as hswasfirft required to fwearandpromifeby 
 witing, that he would net violate the ordina- 
 cesofche churchy nor contatDinat his hands 
 with chiiftian blood,which in efFecSl is as much 
 to (ay, as that he f hould reigne godly & iuftly, 
 and many other fuch examples might be allea- 
 ged, bur by this it is eafy to fee, what was the 
 faflionof admitting and crowning thos grc- 
 tian Emperors by their Patriarkes, in the name 
 of al the common wealth, which common ] 
 wealth was not fatisfied with an oth except, ] 
 alfo it were fet downe in writing. I 
 And if we pafleto the latine& weft empyre ^ 
 which about this very tyitie was reftored by ^ 
 Zacharie the pope* and bv the whole common | 
 Wealth of Rome (as before hath bin f hewed ( 
 and was giuen to Charles the great and his , | 
 
 pofterity) 
 
tothecroy^ne. Tart i. C a p. V. 87 
 pofterity) we f h^l fynd that this point is more 
 letled and more in-violably kept yet in this 
 empyre,the in the othet,for albeit that this em- 
 pire of the well went by fucceffion for the 
 moftpart ar the begining, vntil afterwards it 
 was appointed by Pope Gregory the fifth to ^ 
 pallc by the election of certaine Princes in Ger- 
 nianie,rhatnow enioy that priueledge ro beele- 
 d:ors: yet f h^il we fee alwaies , that they euen 
 bcfoie this cofticution.when this dignity went 
 by fucceflion^were neuer admitt- d to the fame, 
 without this circumrtance of fwearing to 
 conditions of righteous gpuerment : the forme 
 and manner of which admifijon, for that I find 
 it fet dowac i\iore perfedly and particulerly in 
 thecoronation of Otho the firft, then of any- 
 other Emperor,and that by mmy authors, and 
 I that this Ocho was fonneand hey re vnto the 
 famous Emperor Henry the fiift of that name , 
 Duke of Saxonic, furnamed the faulkncr, fof q^^^j^j^ 
 the great deUght he had in the flght of fan- 10. . ' 
 Icons, for thes caufes I meane to begin with Jj^ranzius 
 Ithe coronation of jhis man before any other, tiop.c.n^ 
 
 This Ocho then fonne (as I hauefaid) to 
 'Henry the firft, though being his eldeft fonne, Thc^ 
 he were alio his heyre^and fo named by Henry ofoth"^ 
 himfelf ro the inheritance of the faid crowne ^^^^cfitft. 
 of Germany : yet Was he not admitted ther- 
 vnro vntil hehad made his otb, and receaued 
 'hisnewapprobation^by the people, for fo the 
 ftory faith that the Archbifhop of Moguntia 
 l(who is the chief primate of al Germany) 
 
 H bunging 
 
88 A Conference touching fuuepon 
 bringing him to the aulter wher he muft 
 fwear^ faid thes words vnto the people. Behold 
 vvhiti- I hnngyou heare Otho.chofen by God & appointed out 
 geft.^"* ^ h^f^^her Henry our lord, and nol^ made king by al 
 Saxon, the Princes of this empire, if this election pleafeyoUy do 
 jou ftgnifie the fame by houlding vpyaur handes to hea^ 
 uen. Thus fararethevvordesof ihehiftorio- 
 grapher, and then he addeth that al held vp 
 their handes,and that theruppon the faid arch- 
 bif hop, turned ahout to the aulter vvhcr lay al 
 theoruamentsandenfignesofthe empyre, as 
 Enfigncs the fwotd vvith the girdle, the cloke with the 
 empire!!^ bracelets, the ftaf vvith the fcepter, and dia- 
 / ^ deme,euery one wherof,the archbifhop put vp- 
 pon the Emperor, telling him the fignification 
 of ech thing, and what it did bynd him vnto: 
 as for example when he put the fvvord about 
 ^^.^.^ him he faid , accipe hunc gladium quo ijcias omnes 
 fliin 1.1. Chrijii aduerfarios & malos cbrifiianos , authorttate 
 diuina per Epifcapos tibi tradtta.^Hhich. is,take vnto 
 thee this fvvord wherbythowraayft calt out 
 and driue away al theenimies of Chrift, whe-^ 
 ther they be barbarous infidels, or euel chri- 
 ftians,and thisby theauihority of God deHue- 
 red vnto thee by vs that are bif hops. 
 
 And thus he did vvith al other ornaments 
 and enfignes,telling the fignificaiion and obli- 
 gation ofcuery one, and taking the Emperors 
 promife to performe al. 
 vbifu. Andafferaljihehiftoriographerconcludcth 
 thus. Eexperfufus oleefan[to, coronatur dtadenuite 
 Mreo^abEpifcopis^&abeifdm ad folium regale du- 
 
 mm 
 
tothecrcni>ne. Tart i. Cap. V. 89 
 ckur&in ee colocatur. That is, the king being 
 annoinced with holy oyle was crowned by the 
 bifhops, and by the fame was brought to the 
 royal feat and therin placed. This happened 
 about the yeare of chrifl: 940. and the ceremo- 
 ny is recounted more amply in this mans coro* 
 nation, then in any other^both for that he was 
 a very noble Prince, and the veryfirft of the 
 Germain nation,that was lawfully and orderly 
 preferred to the imperial feat , after that it paO- 
 fed from the children of Charles the great, and 
 iher be diuers points worthy the notmg in this 
 example, and among other that albeit he were 
 lawful king and Emperor by fucceflion, as alfo 
 by appointment of his father : yet was he cho- £]c£Uoa.^ 
 fen and admitted againe by the Princes and 
 people , & that he fwore to fulfil al thofe pom- 
 tes and condicions, which the fignification of 
 the Emperial ornaments did bynd him vnto. 
 
 After this, about 60. yeares or more. Pope 
 Gregory the j. in a fynode holdeninRome, Q^^^a^ 
 did by the confent of Otho the third Emperor, Eleaois. 
 and nephew vnto this other Otho , of whom 
 we haue now treated, appoint a cerraine forme 
 ofeledlio forthe tyme to come of the German 
 Emperor,to wit, that he fhould bechofen by 
 fix Princes of Germany, three ecclefiaftical 
 which are the archbif hopes of lAogimtu, Colen, 
 \ & Treuircs, & three temperal Lords, to wit, the gicnd-dc- 
 Duke of Saxony , the Counte Palatyne ofcad.zU.j 
 i Rh-ne,and the Marques of Brandeburge , ^nd^^^^'^l^ 
 I when thes fix voices fhould happen to be 
 j " Hz equally 
 
cfo ^ A Conference touching fuccepm 
 equally dcuided,then that rhe Duke of Boemia 
 (for then it was no kingdom j fhould haue 
 placp alfo to deter myne the clcdlion. Al which 
 was determined in the yeare of Chrift 996* in 
 Rome,andapproued afterward by al the Prin- 
 ces of Germany, and allowed by al other Chri- 
 ftian Princes, and ftates of the world, and Co 
 endureth vnto this day. And among al other 
 points this of his coronation and his orh to be 
 taken for his welgoucrment, was and is moft 
 exadly fet downe, & recorded by many hifto- 
 riographers of rhar tyme, and fince: But I f hal 
 sieyd.lL I alleage them only out of lohn Sleydan, as the 
 An^^ip. niofteonuenient author for this our tyme and 
 purpofe. 
 
 The man Firfl: of al then he wfitcth^that after any man 
 ncr of the chofen Emperor, he is to be called only Cdtfat 
 coronatio and the king of the Romans^and not Emperor, 
 at this yntil he be crowned, and the conditions which 
 hefweareth vnto prefently after his cleifiion^ 
 ArCy to defend the chrijlian and cathollque religion^ 
 to defend the pope and church of Rome , li^hofe aduocat 
 he is.to mmjler iufitce equally to aU tofoUo^ peace^ to 
 sieyd. vbi l^pe and obferue allar^es rightcs and priuileges of the 
 Bmpjre.not to alienate or engage the poffej^tons of the 
 empjrcy to codemne no man T)^ithout hearing his caufe, 
 but to fuffer the courfe of la'^ to haue his place , in 
 al and 'j^hatfoeuer he f hal do otherT^ife, that it h 
 vojd and of no Validitieat al 
 
 VntoalthesarticlcSj he (weareth firft by hisj 
 legates &: then he giucth a coppy of his othe in ^ 
 writing to euery one of the ux elcdors, and^ 
 
 afteri 
 
tothem^ne. Tart i. Cap. V. 91 
 
 after this he goeth to the cytie of Aquu-gran to 
 be ctowoedin thegrear church , vvher about 
 the midlc of the mailcjthe archbifhop ofCoIea 
 goeth vnto him in the prefenceofal the people, 
 and aiknb^'j^hether he be redy to fli^edre and J^^^^-interro- 
 mife to obferue the catkoltckjeligto^ defend the church , gatories 
 minifter m ftice.protecl the '^idol^es and fatherless and ^^^^ciov, 
 yeald duttfid honor and obedience to the pope of Rome^ 
 wherunto he anf\/veringthacheisredy rodoal 
 this, the Archbifhop leaderh him to the high 
 aulter vvher he fwearethm exprefle words, al 
 thes articleSjVvhichbcingdone, the faid arch- 
 bifhop turning himfelfe to the Princes of the 
 empyreand people therprefent doih afke thatiy 
 T^hether they be content to fl^eare obedience and 
 fealtievntohim.T^ho ayifl^eringjea, he is annoy n- 
 ted by the (aid archbifhop before the auher, 
 and then do come the other tvvo Arch bif hops 
 of Moguntta ^nd Treueris , and do lead him into 
 the veftcry, vvher ccrtaine deacons are redy to 
 apparrelhim inhisrobes, and do fet him in a 
 chayre^vppon whom the ArchbifhopofColen 
 faith certaine prayers, and then ddiuereth him o^af^^^ 
 a (word drawne, and putteth a ring vppon his mcms. 
 , finger,and giueth him a fcepter in his hand, 8c 
 then al the three Atchbifhops together, do 
 put on rhe crowne vppon his head, and leading 
 him fo crowned and apparreled vnto the high 
 aulter againe, he fvvearcth the fecond tyme, 
 that he ^il do thepart of a good chrijiian and C^tho- Second 
 Itcl^mperor. Which being ended he is brought 
 back and placed in the emperial feat & throne, 
 
 H i vvher 
 
5)1 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 vvher al the Princes of the empyre dofwcarc 
 obedience and fayth vnto him, begining with 
 the three Archbifhops , and continuing oii 
 with the three other dcScotSy and fo al the reft 
 in order vvhich is a notable and mageftical 
 manner of admitting and authorizing of a 
 To bc^ Prince as you fee, and it is to be marked among 
 noted, other things, that the emperor fweareth three 
 tymes, once by his deputies and twife by him- 
 fclfe^beforc his fubieds fweare once vjuo him, 
 and yet wil Belloy as you haue hard,needs haue 
 fubieds only bound to their Princes, and the 
 Prince nothing at al bound to them againe. 
 The man ' Polonia, which being firft a Dukedome 
 ner ofco-^asmadea kingdome, aboute the fame tyme 
 tn Polo" ^hat this forme of electing of the German Em- 
 ilia, peror was prefcribed, the manner of coronatio 
 of their kings,is in fubftance the very fame^thac 
 we haue declared to be of the Emperor. For firft 
 pfal^ihe Archbifhop of Guefua metropolita of 
 al Polonia, commeth jothe king (landing be- 
 fore the high aulter, and fayeth vnto him the$ 
 Alex Gua WPrdes. VVhcYOfyou are right noble Prince to reccauc 
 loion 4r our handes this day T^ho are (though yn^orth'tly) 
 Torn"! . i^ p^^^ ofchrijlfqr execution of thisfun^ion, the fa- 
 ^c^^^ ^r^r/4«;/^;7f/>^4w^ other ceremonies^ enfignes^ and 
 mcr. fol. ornaments appertejning to the hinges of this land , it 
 j»o.& xo5 fhalbe^elthat H^e admontfb yon in a fe^ H^ordes, 
 T^hatthe charge imfortethT^hichyouareto takevp-' 
 fpnjoUy &c. 
 
 , Xhus he beginneth, and after this^ hedecla- 
 ??yivmo him fpr what end he is made king. 
 
tothecrol^ne. Van i, Cap. V. 39 
 
 I what the obligation of that place and dignity 
 i byndcthhimvnto , and vnto what points he 
 ; niuft(wearc^ what do fignifie the fword, the 
 I ring,the fceptor^ andthecrowne that he is to 
 I receauc, and at the deliuery of each of thes 
 I things he raakcth both a f hort exhortation 
 vnto him, and prayer vnto God for him. And 
 the kings oth is in thes vvoids. Tmnitto corum Thckiog* 
 Deo & anzdisem,\domovc\\(t and fweare be-?^P^^^ 
 fore God and his angels, that I wil do law and oth«. 
 iufticetoal, and kepethc peace of chrift his 
 ChuLcheandthevnioofhiscatholique fayth, 
 and wil do and caufe to be done dew and cano- 
 nical honor vnto the bifhops of this land^and „ 
 to the reft ofthecleargicjand if (which God for 
 bid) I f hould break my oth, I am content that '^o^^^ de 
 the inhabitants of this kingdome,fhai owe no p^^^* ' 
 duty or obedience vnto me as God fhal help,, 
 me and Gods holy ghofpelles. 
 
 After this oth made by the king , and recea- 
 iied by the fubieftsjthe Lord Martial general of 
 the whole kingdome, dothafke with a loud 
 voice of al thecouncellors^nobility, & people 
 ther pre(ent,*R?/;^r/;f r they be conte^it to [ubmit them- 
 feluesvnto.thisking or no Whoanfweringyea: 
 the archbifhop doth ende the relidue of the ce- 
 remoniesA'doth place him in the royal throne, 
 whcr al his fubieds do homage vnto him, 
 and this for Polonia. 
 
 In Spay ne I do find, that the manner of ad' The ad- 
 mitting ther kin?s was different, and not the 
 Uine before and after the diftruilion therofspaiiic. 
 
 H 4 by the 
 
^j^^^^^onference touching fuccefm 
 by theMooreSjbutyet that inbothtymes ther 
 kings did fwe^re in cffed the fclfe farae points 
 which before haue bin mentioned m other 
 kingdomes. For firft, before the entiing of the 
 Mooreswheafpayneremayncd yet one gene- 
 ral monatchie,vnder the Gothes, it is recorded 
 in the fourth national coucel of Toledo w hich 
 was holden the yeare of our Lord 635. accor- 
 raksiu?. ^^'^'g Ambrofto Morales, the mod learned & di- 
 C.17. hilt, ligct hiftoriograi^herofSpayne, (chough oihec 
 f^t!emf^" do appoint it fome few yearcs after) in this 
 ciemcon- councel (I fay) it is faid , that their new king 
 Sipmndus (who had tx^tlkd Suintila ther foc- 
 Thehu J^'^'^t Jcingforhiseurl gouerment). This king 
 fniiitie of Siffinandus I faye com ming into the faid con n- 
 y^'^^j^^^" eel in the third yeareof his reiene, accompai- 
 nedwirh ainoft magnihcent number or no- 
 bles ^ that waighted on him , did fal downe^ 
 proftrate vppon the ground, before the Arch- 
 bifhopSjand bifhops ther gathered rogether, 
 which were 70. in number, anddefired them 
 with teares topray for him , and to deceitnine 
 in that councel, that which fhould be needful 
 and mod conuenient both for mainteyning of 
 Gods religion,and aifo for vpholding and pro- 
 spering the v^'hole common wealth: wheruppo 
 »thos fathers after matters of religion and re-r 
 formation of manners, which they handled iri 
 7} •chapters. In the end and laft chapter, they 
 T0I4.C. come to handle matters of eftateaUo. Andfiill 
 74* of al they doconfirme the depofirion of king 
 Smnttla togcihei: With his wife brother , ana 
 
 cliildicn;^ 
 
to the crcr^ne. Tart i. Cap. V. 9; 
 child ren»and al for hisgrtatwickednes, which 
 in the councel is recounted,and they do dtpiiue 
 them not only of al title to the crowne^but alfo 
 of al oihei goods^and podeiHons, mouables 6c 
 immouabks, fauing only that which the new 
 kings mercy fhould beftow vppon them , and 
 in this councel was prelenr and lubfct ibed firft 
 ofal other, ^. ifidorm Axchhiihop of siutl , who 
 writing his hiftory of fpayne dedicated the fame 
 vnro this king S'tftnandtis. and fpeakcth infinite Ambron 
 good in the lame^of the vertocs of king 67tmf/-^^3^3U.u 
 /4, thatw^as now depoled and condemned in^^^'*^* 
 this laid councel, whciby it is to pre fumed^thac 
 he had changed much his life afterward , and 
 ; became (o wicked a man , as here is reported. 
 
 After this, the councel confirmeth the title 
 ofStjhnandus, and makcth decrees for the de- 
 fence iherof, bur yet infinuareth what points 
 he was bound vnto, and wherunio he had 
 fworne when tney (aid vnto him, Teqvoque pY<Z' Cap.74. 
 [entm regem acfutnros £tattm fecjumtium pnncipeSj 
 &c. We do reijuire you, that are our prefent 
 lcing,andalotheronr Princes that fhal followCondi- 
 ihereafter with the humility which is conue.Ji'5*"^°t 
 iiiicnt, that you be meeke & moderate towards in Spainc 
 jyoui (ubieds , andtharyou gouerneyour peo-3> 
 ipk in iuftice and piety , and that none of you a* 
 jdogiue fcntence alone againft any maincaufe?* 
 |of life and death , but with the confenr of,* 
 iyour publicjue councel, and with thos that,> 
 begouernours in matters ofiudgmcnr. Audi* 
 lagainft al kings that are to come, we dopro->j 
 I H / mulgatc 
 
9<J A Conference touching fuccepon 
 tnnlgate this fentencc, that if any of them flial 
 againfl: the reuerence of our lawes, excercife 
 cruel authority with proud domination, and 
 cingly pompe,only following therowne con- 
 ^upifcencein wickcdnes, that they are con- 
 demned by Chrift with tlie fentence of excom- 
 munication, and haue theyr feparation both 
 from him and vs to euerlafting iudgment, and 
 this much of that counceL 
 
 But in the next two yeares after the ende of 
 this councel , king Sifmandm being now dead 
 and one ChintilU made king in his place , ther 
 were other two councels gathered in Toledo, 
 the firft V vherof was but prouincial, and the fe- 
 cond national, and they are named by the na- 
 Ambrof. mes of the fift and fixt councels of Toledo. 
 ii°ca^ 2j In the which councels, according to the man- 
 & 24. net of the Gothes (who being once conuerted, 
 from the Arrian haerefie, were very catholique 
 and deuouteuer after, andgouerned themfel- 
 ues mofl:,by theircleargiej and not only mat- 
 ters of religion were handled, but alfoof ftate 
 Concil.5. ^nd of the commonwealth , efpecially aboute 
 cap.2.3 4. the fucceflio to the crowne, fafty of the Prince, 
 J.f^p?!^*. P'^o^^^on for his children, frendes,officers,and 
 ij'i^x fauorites after his death , and againfl: fuch as 
 without elcdlion or approbation of the com- 
 mo wealth,did afpire to the fame,al thes points 
 I fay were determined in thes councels and 
 among other points a very feuere decree was 
 made in the fixt councel , concerning the 
 kings oth at his admiflion in thes words. 
 
 Confonam 
 
tothecro^ne. Van i. Cap. V. 97 
 
 Cenfonam vno corde & mpomulgamus Deo placitU" concii. 
 ramfententiam. We do promulgate with one 
 hare and mouth this fenience agrcable & plea- 
 fingvntoGod , and do decree the fame vvith'^ 
 the confent and deliberation of the nobles and 
 peeres of this realme, that whofoeuer in tyme 
 to come fhalbe aduanced to the honor and 
 preferment of this kingdome , he f hal not be ^* 
 placed in the royal feat, vn til among other con- 1^^^ 
 ditions he haue promifed by the Sacrament of ofspai- 
 an oih, that he vvil fufFer no man to break the 
 Cathohque faith^&c. Thus far, that lynod ormiffion. 
 councel. By which wordes efpecially thos 
 (among other conditions) is made euident^thar thos 
 Piincesfweare not only tokepethe faith^ but 
 alfo fuch other conditions of good gouerment 
 as were touched before in the fourth councel, 
 andthes things were detcrmyned while their 
 king Chwtilla was prefent in J olkdo, asAmbrofio 
 Mor^fonoteth. And thus much of Spayne, be-^^rai?^* 
 fore the entrance of the Moores^ and before lib. i.cap. 
 the deuiding therof into many kingdomesxhedi- 
 which happened about a hundreth yeares after ftrudion 
 this, to wicin the yeare of our Sauiour yi^.^l^^^^" 
 and 714. 
 
 But after the Moores had eayned al Spayne'^.^^^!'^' 
 anddeuidedit betwene them,mtodiuersking- of the re- 
 domes,yet God prouided that within fovvre or -"^^^ 
 fine yeares the chriflians that were left and fiedd Ambroc 
 to the Mountaynes of Ajturm &c Bifcay.found a 
 certaineyong Prince named DonPelajo of the zf deia 
 ancient bioodoftheGotiih kings, vvho wasChron.dc 
 ^ ^ alfofled^^^- 
 
A Conference touching fuccepon 
 alio fled thither and miraculoufly faued from 
 theenemyes, whom they choft ftraightvvaies 
 to be their king^ and he began prcfently the re- 
 couery ofSpaync^and was called firft king of 
 Aftur'my and afterward of Leon, and after his 
 fucceiTbrsgatt to bekings alfoof Cajliliay and 
 Kia do ^^^^^^ Toledo, and then of Aragon, Barcehna, 
 mts ia Valentia.Murctay Cartagena^ Jaen^ Cordua, Granado, 
 Spaync. SmlyVortiigol, and Nmma, al which were dif- 
 ferent kingdomes at th it tyrae^fo made by the 
 Moores, as hath bin faid- And al thes king- 
 domes were gayned againe, by litle and litle, in 
 more then 7. hundred yeares fpace, which 
 wereloftin lefle then two yeares, and they ne- 
 wer came againc in deede into one Monarchic 
 as they were vnder Don Rodrigo ther lad king 
 that loft the whole , vntil the yeare of our Lord 
 ij8r, v>ihcn Don rhilippe now king of Spayne 
 re-vnited againe vnto that crowne the king^ 
 dome of Portugal which was the laftpecce, 
 that remayned fepcrrated and this was almoft 
 900. yeares after Spaine was firft loft. 
 
 But now to our pnrpofe, the chronicler of 
 SpsLynCynamedAmbrofio Morales doth record ia 
 TTiego- his chronicle a certame law, written in the 
 ofDoT fonge, and left fincethe tyme of this 
 
 Peiay^r ^OH PcUjo the fif ft king, after the vninerfal di- 
 Kingof fttu(3-ion of Spime , and the title of th.' law h 
 AtXof ^his. Como fe an de leuantar Rej en Ejpiia , y como el 
 Moral, li. hadelurarlosfmos, that is to faye, how men 
 *i-cap.a. m^jfl; Q^al^e jh^j. kwg in Spaine, and how he 
 muftfweare to the priuileges and liberties of 
 
 that 
 
tothecroMufne. Tart t. Cap. V. 99 
 thar nation; And then he putteth the articles 
 of the law, vvherof the firft faith thus. Before 
 althinges it is eJlabltfhedfoY a Uli^Jibertjf^andpmt-yi 
 ledge of Spayne, that the king is to be pUced ^v(?r->» 
 ces and confent perpetually ^ and this to the intent that >» 
 no eticl kwg may enter l^tthout confent of the people, 
 feing they are to giue cohinty that T^hich Ttith ihers^ 
 blood and labour es they haue gayned of the Moore s, j» 
 Thus far goeih this fiift article, which is th^Epj^l^^^ 
 more to be marked , for that diuers and thosTuyeni: 
 moft ancient fpanifh authors do fay, that from 
 thisD(?«Pf/^a, thefucceflion of kings defcen-Lodou. 
 dedenerby propinquity of blood, and yet vve^^^J^^^^^^ 
 fee that eleftion was ioyned iher withal incx-ied. 
 pre(retermes. 
 
 The fecond part of the law conteyneth the 
 manner of ceremonyes vfedin thofeold dayes 
 at the admiffion of their kings, w^hich isex- 
 preffed in thes woitleSjlc t the king be chofen & The old 
 admitted in the metropolitan citie of this king-^P^"»^^ 
 dome,or at leaft wife in fbme cathedral church, nyes in 
 and the night before he is exalted, let him ^^^king^ 
 watch al night in the church, and ihe'next day gc. 
 let him heare maflcjand let him offer at maffc „ 
 a peece of fcarlet , and fome of his owne mo- 
 ncy,ind after let him communicate, and when 
 they come to lift him vp let him ftep vppon a,, 
 buckler or target and let the^ cheife and princi-,, 
 pal men iher prefenr hold the target, and fo lif- 
 ting him vp let them and the people cry three,, 
 tymes,as hard as they can, RealyEeal^Real. Then 
 let the king comaund fome of his owne mo- „ 
 
 ney, 10 
 
lOo A Conference touching fucceftoH 
 ney, ro be caft among the people, to the quan- 
 >9 ticy ofahundreth f hillings, and to tlie end he 
 3, maygiueal men to viiderftand, that no mam 
 9^ now IS aboue him^let him felftye on bisownc 
 3> fword in the forme of a crolle, 6c let no knight 
 53 or other man^beaie a fword that day , but only: 
 99 ihekinge. 
 
 This was the old fafhion of making kings 
 fentman- in fpayne, which in efFe<5l and fubftance remay* 
 ncrof y^Q^i^ [^jl^ though the manner therof be fome- 
 * what alrered,for thar the fpanif h kings be not 
 crowned,bu t haue an other ceremony for their 
 admiffion equal to coronation which is per- 
 formed by the Archbif hop of Toledo primat 
 of al fpayne, as the other coronations before 
 mentioned are by the Archbif hop of Moguntia, 
 to the Emperor, and by the Archbif hop of 
 Guefna to the king of Polonia, and by the Arch-i 
 bifhopofPragatothekingof Boemia, and by 
 the Archbif hop of Braga to the king of Portu- 
 gal^ and by the Archbif hop of Canterbury to 
 the kingof Ingland, and by the Archbif hop of 
 Rhemes co the king of France,of which realme 
 of France we may not omit to fomewhat in 
 particuler, feing iris fo goodly a kingdome, 
 and fonecre to Ingland, not only in fituation, 
 but alfo in Lawes manners & cuftomes, and as 
 theraceoflndifh kin^s haae come fio them 
 in diners manners,(ince the conqueft, fo may it 
 be alfofuppofed that the principal ceremonies 
 and circumftances of this actio of coronation, 
 hath bine rcceaued in like manner fj:om them. 
 
 Firft 
 
tothecri^m. Van k Cap. V. loi 
 Pirft then touching the adle of coronation Jlt^?^ 
 and admimon or the king of France, euenas be French 
 fore I hauc faid of Spayne, fo alfo in this king- 
 dom do I find two manners of that ac^tion , the 
 one more ancient which the French do fay 
 hath indured iii fubftance from ther fiift Chti- 
 ftian king named CWa/(m,vn to this day^which 
 is about eleue hundred yeares,for that Clodouem 
 vvaschriftened theyeareof our Lord 490. in 
 the cy tie of Rheims by S.Remigius, Bif hop of ^^^JJ 
 that citie , and annointed alfo and crowned nies. 
 king by the fame bif hop, which manner and 
 order of anoynring and coronation endured 
 after for about 6. hundred yeares, vnto the 
 tyme of Henry the firft, & king Phillip the firft: 
 his fonne^both kings of France. Ac what tyme 
 (which is about 500. yeares a gonej both the 
 Chroniclers and Cofmographers of France do Bclfor I. j 
 teftifie,that ther was apcculier booke in ^^^^^l^J^^' 
 library ofthe church of B^^^j^, conteyning the mograph. 
 particuler order of this adion , which had en- ^"i"^^^- ^• 
 dured from Clodouem vnto that tyme. Which plp"f ' 
 order,forfo much as toucheth thcfolemnitie ^^^j^j"- 
 of officers in the coronation and other like cir- pag i. ^5* 
 cumftances , was far different at that tyme, 
 from that which is now,for that in thofe dayes 
 ther were no pceres of France, appointed to af- 
 fiftthe fame coronation J which now are the 
 chiefe and the greateft part of that folemniiie. 
 Yc^ GirardduHatlan fecretarie of France in his^^^^^^j 
 third booke of the affaires and ftate of that 3 dehb. * 
 kingdome,fay th, thatihe ceremonies of crow- ^^^^^-^^ 
 
 ning '^^ * 
 
101 A Conference touching fuceepon 
 
 iiing their old kinges were much after ^the 
 fafhion which I haue noted a htle before, iii 
 this very chapter, out of the law of Don VeUjo 
 firftkingof Spaine, after the Moores, for that 
 they were lifted vp and caried a-bout vppon a 
 target by the chicfe fubiectstherprefent as the 
 Spaniards were. 
 
 But as touching the principal point of that 
 adion which is the fubftance of admitting the 
 king vnto his royal authority 3 and othbyhim 
 niadeofgouerning wel andiuOiy 3 and of the 
 reciprocal oih of obedicce made to him againc 
 by his fubieds , it was not much different 
 from that which now i%as f hal appeare by the 
 coronation of the forefaid PhiHip the firft, who 
 was crowned in the life and prefence of his fa- 
 ther, king Hcniy, after the fafhion then vied 
 in the yeare of Chrift 1 0/9. and it was in man- 
 Trancis following^ as Nangis and Tillet, both autho- 
 Bcifor. res of great authoritie among the French , do 
 li'b/^c.2o* recount it, and Francis Belforefl: , out of them 
 in vita both repeatcth the fame at large, in thes words 
 ^^"^'^•'^ following. 
 
 The CO- Henry the firft of this name, feeing him- 
 
 lonation felfe very old and feeble, made an alTembly of 
 Su^r^ al the ftares of France in the cytie of Paris in the 
 
 Phillip r n I 
 
 thcfiift. yeare of Chnft io<'9. whei bringing in hi$ 
 a yong fonne and heire Philip that was but 9. 
 
 yearesofage, before them al, he faid as fol- 
 3, loweth. 
 
 The Hither to my dere frends and fubicftsj haife 
 fhe^j!^^ bin the head ofyour nobility, Scnien at armcs^ 
 tiicr. but now 
 
tothtcid^nt. Tart I. Cap. V. ibj 
 
 but now by myne age and difpofirion of body, 
 \ do Wtl perccaue, that car it be long I muft be 
 feperared from you , and therfore Idodefire^^ 
 you fharifeueryou haucloucd me, you fhcw^^ 
 it now in giuing your confent and approbatipn 
 that this my lonne may be admitted for your ^ 
 king,anda]pparaled with the royal ornaments 
 of this crowne of Fi*ancc , and that you wil 
 Iweare fealcie vnto hm},anddo him homage. 
 
 Thus faid the king, and then hauing alked 
 cucry oneofiheaffiftance inparticuler for his 
 confent a part,and afterwards the whole affem- 
 biy in general , whether ihey would fwearc 
 obedience to him or no, and fynding al to pro- 
 mife vvithagoodwil, hepafled oucrthc fcaft^^ 
 of the affenrion vvith great ioy in Paris, and 
 afrer vvent to Rhemcsvviih althe court and 
 tray ne, to celebrate the coronation vppoh the 
 feaftofwhit-fonday. 
 
 Thus far are the wordes of William de Nan- Notes vp. 
 gis alleaged in the ftory of France by Belforeft, 
 and it is to be noted firft, how the king did re- fpeach«k 
 iqucft the nobility & people to admit his fbhne, 
 and fecondly how he did af ke iher confents a 
 partjfor that thes two pointes do euidently c6* 
 firmc that, which I (aid at the beginning, that 
 only fucccflion is not fufficient, but that coro- 
 nation euer reqUireth a new confent,which al- 
 fo includcth a certaine eleftion or new appro- 
 bation of the fubie(5ls. 
 
 This is proued alfo moft manifeftly by the 
 Very order of coronation which infueth in 
 
 i Belforeft, 
 
1 C4i A Confcrmce totichifrg fuccefm 
 
 ^ff'' B<Jforeft,t<>ken vvuid for word out of Tillet, ivt 
 Tiiict €. his trcatilc of Rccordes, in the chapter of annoia* 
 dc$ Roys. ^^^?> kings of France in thes wordes. 
 Thcpar. Iniht* ycare of grace 1019. and 32. of rhe 
 mViIncr ^^^g^ of kmg Henry the firft of rhis name of 
 ofcorona France, and in the 4.yeare of the feat and bif- 
 hoprick vf rieruays Archbifhop of Rhcmcs.and^ 
 ^^in thc2^.davof May being v\hit.fonday5 king 
 Phillip the firft was anointed by the faid Arch- 
 hifbopGiT^^y^m il e great church ofRhemes^ 
 before the aultcrofour lady, vviih the order &c 
 ceremony thatenfuetb. 
 
 The malfe being bcgonne, when it came to 
 ihe reading of the Epiftle, the laid Lord Arch- 
 ^'bilhbp turning about to Phillip the Prince^ 
 that was iherprefcntjdeclared vniohim vvhac 
 y^^P^j^y was the Caiholique fayth, and afkcd him 
 of fiith. whether hedid beleuc it, & whether he would 
 ^ defend it ngainft al pcrfons whatfoeucr, who 
 ,5 affirming that he would, his oth vvav brought 
 ^> vnto him , whcrunto he meft fwcare , which 
 5, he looke and read With a loud yoyce,and figned 
 it with his owne hand, and the words ol ihc 
 5, oth were thefe. 
 
 leVhtbfpe par le grace de Dicupochdmi'ejlu cr^ 
 donneFoy de Travce. prcmtts an hut dv men facred^^ 
 pantDieu &fes faniles &c.Th^Li is in ii glil h,(fof 
 I vvil not rrpt are al the oth in French feing it is 
 Thcoth <bme w hat long).l Philbp Ly the graceofGod^ 
 ©ftbc^ nfcieiobt ordcymdkinc of France, do pro- 
 
 Kme of rr 1 1 r • • r * 1 
 
 fiance, niille in this dayof my annomiing, before al- 
 mighticGod,andalhisfaimcs,ihat 1 \m\ conf- 
 
 fcrus 
 
tothc cfolimc. Vart i. Cap. V. jof 
 
 ftruevntoyou thai are ecclcfiaftical Prelats al}» 
 canonical priuilcges, and al law andiuftjce dew 
 vntoeuery one of you, and 1 vvil defend jou by 
 thchelpcofGodfo much as fhall lyc in my,> 
 power, and aseuerv king ought to do , and aS9> 
 by right and equity he is bound to defend cue- >t 
 ry Bil hop and church to him comittcd within 
 his realme, and further more I fhal adminifter»> 
 iuftice vnto al people giuen me in charge , and >» 
 fhal preferue vnto them rhe defence oflawes» 
 and equity appertaining vnto thcm,io far forth j> 
 as fhal lye in my authority, fo God fhal helpca> 
 me and hisholy Euangelifts. 
 
 This oth WiiS rend by the king, holding his,, 
 handes betwen * the handes of the Archbifhop 
 of Rhemcs,and the bil hop of Syen and Btfanfvn, 
 kgats of the pope ftandirg by, with a very,, 
 great number of orh^r bifhops ofrhe realme. 
 And the faid Archbif hop taking thecrolfe of,, 
 S.Kermgiusin his lands, he fh^wed firft vnto ,, 
 al the audience , rhe ancient aaihoritie which „ 
 the ArchbifhopsofRhems had euen from the 
 tyme of S.Rcmigius that baptized ther firft ,i 
 chndiznkin^Chdotieus, toannoirit & crownc ,i 
 the kings of France, which he faid was confir- ,j 
 nied vnto them by ptiuil^^dgc of the pope Hor^ ,i 
 wi/Hftthat liuedin theyeareofChrjfk yr6. and 
 after alio by pope K/(3or,and this being done,hc b^^^'-J- i 
 thcn(by licence firft afked of king Henry the 
 father ther prefent)dydchofe Phillip forking. 
 1/ eput Ic dit Phihppe fonfilsy en^&pourUcy de FramCy 
 which is word for word,the Archbifhop cho(« 
 
 I 1 the 
 
toS A Confefencetmhingfuacfm 
 the faid Phillip king Henrycs (onne, in and fot 
 king of France, which the legats of the pope 
 prelcntly cofirmcd, and al the bit hops Abbcts^ 
 and clcargiCjWith the nobility & people in iher 
 ordcr,did the like, crying out three tyroes in 
 The pco- ihcs vvordcs. Kous k affwMuns.nom levoulonsyfiit 
 ^^^^^^^^faitmjire Eojjthzt is^v\e appioue his eledion^ 
 adniiffio. we vvil hauc him,let hita be made our king,& 
 5, prefenily was fong, Te DcumUud^mus in the 
 quyar, and the reft of the ceremonies ofanoin-*- 
 ^, ting and coronation were done, according la 
 5, the ancient order of this folemnity, v ftd in the 
 ^,tyme of king Phillips prcdeccficrs kings of 
 France. 
 
 Thus far do French ftories recount the old & 
 ancient raannef of anointing and crowning 
 ther kings of Fiance, which had endured as I 
 liauefaidjforalmoft 6oo.yeaies that is to (ay^ 
 from C&iai/mvnto this king Phillip the firft, 
 who was crowned in Fi ance y.yeares before 
 The latet^o^ William conqueier (who alfo wasprefent 
 order of^ at thiscoFonarion,& had the third place am6g 
 faFx^ce!^^^^^"^P^^^l Princcs as Duke of Normandic) 
 entred into Ingland , but after this tymc the 
 manner and ceremonies was fomwhat altered^ 
 nnd made tfnore maieftical in outward ( hew, & 
 this efpecially by king Lewis furnarted the 
 yonger^ nephew to the forefaid king Phillips 
 who leaning the fnbftance of the a<Stion as it 
 was before,(ranfcd diuers external additions t( 
 honor and mai^ftie, to be adioyned therunto, 
 ^(pecially (oi ihc coronation of his fonnc 
 
 Phillip 
 
nmcYo^n*. Fart Cap. V. 107 
 Phillip the fccondefurnamed Augujlm ^ whom 
 hecaufcd^alfo to be crowned in his dayes,as his 
 grand father Phillip had bin , and ashimfelfc 
 had bin alio in his fathers da)'es. 
 
 This man among other royal ccremonyes 
 ordeyned the offices of the twelue peeres,of 
 France, 6. Ecclefiafticai, and 6. temporal, who ^^^^^ 
 are they which euer lince haue had the chiefeft pcezlt of 
 places and ofices in this great adlion , for that ^^^^^^^ 
 th^forefaid Archbifhopof Rhemes intituled ccrin^hc 
 al fo DakeQfllhemc:s,haththefirftandhigheft corona- 
 place of al 01 hers,and4nnoynteth& crowncih 
 theking.Thebifhop ic Dtikeof Laon beareth 
 theglallcof facred^yle. Thebifhop & Duke 
 of Langre* the croflfe: The Bifhop and rarle of 
 Beuais the mantel royal. The Bifhop & Earlc 
 of Noyon the kings girdle, andlaftofal, the 
 Bifhop and Earle of Chalons , doth cary the 
 ring,and thesare the fix ecclefiaftical peeres of 
 Francewiih I heir offices in the coronation. 
 
 The temporal peeres arc the Duke of Bur- xcmpcid 
 gundie^deane ofthe otder, who in this day of pceies» 
 coronation holdeth the crowne : the Duke of 
 Gafconie Sc Guyene the firft banner quartered, 
 the Duke of Normandiethe i. banner quarte- 
 red, the E^tle of Tholofa rhe golden fpurrcs, 
 the EarleofChampanie, the banner Royal or 
 ftanderd of warr, and the Earle of flinders the 
 fvvordroyaljfo as thet are;. Dukes & 3. Earles 
 in eucry oneofbothranksof fpiritual & tem- 
 poral Lords, and asGirardnoterh, the king is j^^^^^ 
 apparraled Oil this day }. times^andin j/eueral ted. 
 
 I } fortes, 
 
fiiultfi! ^^^ffcs^thc firft as a prit^ft, the (ccod as a king Id 
 g.dcl'c- vvarryer, the child as a ludge ^ and finally he 
 iti ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^"^ folcmnitie of anoynting and 
 ccowning the king of France, is rh" moft mag-, 
 nificent, gorgious, and niaicftical thing that 
 iDay be fcehe in the world, for which he refer* 
 rethvs not only to the partiriiler coronations 
 ofthes two ancient king Phillipps, the firft& 
 fecondjbutalfo to the late coronarion of Hen- 
 ry the fecond, father to the kfl: kings of France 
 which isalfo in printe, and in dcede is a very 
 goodly and moft notable thing to be read, 
 though in deede much more to be fcen. 
 
 But to fay a word or two moreof PhiHip 
 The cere. Auenftus before I palFe any farther, which 
 
 monies I ^ 1-1 * j't r 
 
 vied at happened in the yeare 1179. and in the 2 or 
 thisday. the reigne of oar king H^niy the i.of Ingland, 
 who as the French ftoiics lay was prefeiitalfo 
 Ictf.Tn at this coronation , and had his ranckamong 
 vitaAu- (he peercsas Duke of Normandy, and held the 
 guitus. {^jngsi;rownein his hand, it one of hisfbnnes 
 had his ranckallb as Duke ofGalconie, & the 
 forme vfcd in this coronation was the very 
 famewhichi|vfednt this day in the admifilon 
 ofthe kings of France, in recounting wher-of 
 I wil let parte al the particulcr ceremonies^ 
 WhichareUrgely to be read in Francis Belfo- 
 reft, in the place before men: ioned, and I wil 
 repeatc only the kings oih, which the faid au* 
 The coro ^^^^ rccounteth in thes wordcs . 
 ©ation of The Archbifhop of Rhemes being verted in, 
 AuRuAoi'^^^^ atiyrc,andcometothe aultcr to 
 
^^uWecrffwendrt I. uap. v. toy 
 
 iicginmaire (wherthe king alio wasvppon a ,^ 
 high fear placed) he earned ro him and fiid 
 ^hesvvordesinthe nameofal the clcargie and ^> 
 xhurches of France:Syre ihac which re«.juire 
 at youf handes tbh5day , is that you promile 
 vntovsithatyou wil kepeal canonical |>riuile- „ 
 gcs law and mftice dew to be keepr 8c defended ,^ 
 as a good king is hound to do in his reaime^and 
 CO eiiery bif hop and church co him committed: 
 whenmro the king anfwered. I do promifft and^ 
 AU0^t9^u:ini one o f you and to euery church to jon „ 
 committed, that I iPil kepe and maintejne al cammed 
 frhnUges lal^ andiuj^'ue de'^ to etmy man to the 
 term ojl of my po^et , and hy Gods he^pe f hal defend , $ 
 youas agooi king if hound'o doe, in his reulme.This 
 being done the king did fvveare and make his»> 
 och, Uf ing hishindesvppon thegofpelin thes 
 wordes following. ^««0wrffre/?« ChriH , te ture ^^^^^^ 
 & promets au peuple chnliteii a may fttiecl cescm- French 
 fes.&c. Which is m Inghf h: In rhe name of le- 
 fusChrift: I do fwearc and promifc roal Chri day. 
 ftian people fubiecivnio me the? pomts enfu-»> 
 ning:firft to procure thic al my ^tibieds be kcpr »> 
 inthevnionof rhe church, and I wil defend 
 them from al exce(Te,rapinc,extor(ion, and ini- ^^ 
 quity , fecondly I wil take order ihit in al iudg- »> 
 ments iuftice fhalbe kept, with equity and ,t 
 mercy J to the end that Godofhis mercy may >9 
 conferuevnto me with you mv people his holy „ 
 giuicc and mercy. Thirdly I fhal endcaoar as „ 
 muchaspoffibly fhal lye in me, tochife and » 
 out of my realms and al my dominions, al 
 I 4 fuch 
 
^, fuch as the church hath or f hal declare for he- 
 ,5 retiques,as God f hal help me and his holy gof- 
 j^pcls-Thusfwereth the king, and then kyUeih 
 
 thegofpels^and mediatly is fong. Te DeumUu^ 
 „ damns, and .^fter that are laid many pariiculer 
 
 prayers by the Archhifhop,andthen is'ihe Icing 
 99 vefted,and the ting, fcepter, crowne, and other 
 ,3 kingly ornaments and cnfignes arc brought & 
 
 putvppon him, with declaration firft what 
 
 they fignifie^&then pariiculer prayers are made 
 
 toGod, that ther fignification may be by the 
 
 kmg fulfilled. 
 
 And after al ended the Archbifhop with the 
 Th^qch. Bif hops do blefle him , and fay thes vvordes 
 |>!cflri^ vnto him. GodT^hich reigneth m heauen andgouer^ 
 & fpcch i^th al klngdomes hUffeyou, &x Be pu ftable atid 
 ncv?^ C^^fi^^h and hold yd.ur place and right, from henat 
 kmgc. forth T^hich heere ts committed and laid vppon you by 
 
 the authority of almighty God.and by this prefent tra^ 
 
 dttion and deltuery ^hich '^e the b^fhops and other 
 j9 feruants of God do make vnto you of the fame, and re-- 
 9i member you inplace conuenim, to beare fo much more, 
 3> refpeH & reuerence vnto the clear gie. by hoT^ muck 
 9% neerer then other menyou haue feene . to approch 
 
 to Gods aulter, to the end that lefus Chrijl mediator of 
 i^Godandmanmayconfirmeandr^aynteyneyou by the 
 f> clear gte and people, in this your royal feat and throne^ 
 %y Itfho being lordof Lords and king of kings ma\e yoti 
 
 reigne ^tth htm and hts fathjer tn thf lifeandglory 
 5> euerlafling. 
 
 j> Thus faith the Archbif hop vnto him, and 
 91 a^fter this he is led |;>y hir^ and the other peares. 
 
vnto the feat royal, whcr the crowne is put vp- 
 von his head, and many other large ceremoneies ,^ 
 vfcd which may be read m the author afore,^ 
 faid,and are to long for this place. And yet hauc 
 I bin the larger in this matter of Fiance , for 
 ;hat I do not thinke it to be improbable which 
 this author and others do note, tovvit^ that 
 moft mtions round about haue taken their 
 particuicr formes of anoynting and crowning ^j^^ 
 their kings,from this ancict cul^ome of Fiance, rcr of co- 
 though the fubftance therof, I meaneofther 
 (acring and anoynting, be deduced from exam- Fiance* 
 pies of far more antiquity, to wit, from the very 
 hrft kings among the people of irrael,vvh5 God g^^^^ '®* 
 caufedtobeanoyntcd by hisprieftes and pro- t.Reg.i* 
 phcts,in token ofhis eleAion, andas a lingu- 
 ler priuiledge of honor and preheminence vnto 
 iheixijwherof king Dauid made fo great accopt 
 when he faid to the fouldiar that had killed 
 Saulhisenimye in the warr, q^Ytnonttmiu^i ^^^^^^^ 
 mttere manm tuam kn Chnjlum Domtm, Why 
 diddeft thownot feare to lay thy hands vppon 
 lheanoyntedofGod,andheputhim to death 
 forit^notwirhftanding that Saul had bin long 
 before depofed, and reiedled by God, and that 
 himfelfe had lavvfully borne armes againft him 
 for many daies, fo much was that ceremony 
 of anoynting eftemed in thos dayes, & fo hath 
 itbineuer fince among chciftian people alfo, 
 for that kings hereby are made facrcd, and do 
 notonly perticipatevvithpriefts, but alfo with 
 (thrift himfelfe who hath his name of this 
 
 I J circum- 
 
circarallance of anoyntiag as al the vvorM 
 knovVcch. 
 
 Probable then I fay it i«» that albeit rh^ fab- 
 ftaiiceof this ceremony of anoynting kings be 
 mach elder then rhe chciftiaa knigdame of 
 France :yer is this partic aler and m.iielhcal 
 manner of doin^ the fame by wave of corona* 
 tion, the molt ancient in France abouc al 
 other kingdomes round abaur/efpecialv if it 
 hwgm with therficft chriflian king ClodouAtu 
 Rotful foj.yearcs after Ghrill , as french au* 
 thorsdo h^ld, Atwhit tym^^alfo they recount 
 V^\- of'^ ^ gre^^ miracle of holy oyle fenc fr <)m heaiien 
 Kijciiiss. bv an angel for anoynting Clodoujtm , wherof 
 they fiy ihey haue ftil remaining for the anoyn* 
 t4agofch?ir kings at Rhcmes, which point 
 I wil not ftand to treat or difconrfein this pl ice, 
 biit rather wil refer my reader to thjforefaid 
 Mfb.l. s. ^h^pt^^ of Francis Belforeft chonicler of Frace, 
 ct|?.57» who alleageth diuers writers of almoil joo. 
 yeares antiquitie that write of the fame, biK 
 ho \foeuer that be,very probable it fcmeth that 
 al the ccremoneys of coronation in Germany & 
 Polonia before recited (which h^d rher begin- 
 ning lon:r after the reignc of Clodoumi) might 
 be taken fro thence^and (o the affinity and like-* 
 nes of the c)ne to the other doih (eemeto agree, 
 T^e^tvi and G^m&,i)f airothe chronicler of Spayne, and 
 Garnbiy. of N anarra,in his ii. booke talking of this cn- 
 b.si.ci ftomeofanoyntmg ani crowning the kings of 
 Naaafra,fairh,that this excellent cullv)me be- 
 gan iher (I means in Nauarra) aboue 800. yea^ 
 
 rcspaft 
 
fe $be CYol^ne. Van i. Cap. V. iij 
 
 respaftind vvasbconghtin by cerrainc ^^^1^^ J^ro"?^c4 
 ofChampaynof France named T/;^^/?^/rfcx who in rauar- 
 comming to artayne that crowne brought 
 with them thnr reueient ceremony of anoyn- nfu 
 tig&crowning chcr kings^accordi'ig ro the \Cc 
 ofihe French, vvh ch cnftome endurcth vntil 
 this day inthatpartof Nauaaa , rhat is vndc^ 
 thehoufcofF^iw '«i«?,aibeir in theother char is 
 vnderthe Sp.uviardcs fwhich is far thegreacer) 
 itvvaslefcofintheyeare i J. whcnFerdmande 
 (iirnamed the Catholique king of i'paync 
 cntrcd iher-vppon, fox that the Spanifh kings 
 are neuer anoy nted not crowned but othcrwnfc 
 admitted by the common wealth as before I 
 haue declared. 
 
 But among al other kingdomes it (emcth 
 that Ingland hath mod particularly taken this 
 cuftome^and ceremony from France, not only 
 for the reafon before alleaged that diuers of 
 our Inglifh kings hane come out of Fiance, as 
 William Conqueror borne in Normandy, kingJJl'^'j^^®^^ 
 Stephen fonne to the Earleof B/o«>and Belletiy a ronation^ 
 French mao.and kin? Henry the fecond borne i^K"/f^ 
 likwitein France,and lonne tothe taric ot An^ 
 W//: but alfo for that in very deedc the thing it 
 fclfe is al one m both nations, and albeit I haue 
 not fenc any pariiculerbookc of thisadlion in^^^j^.^^ 
 Ingland,asiu French theris: yet it is eafy toga- dcs Roys, 
 therby ftorycs what is vfed in Ingland about 
 this affaire. 
 
 For fiift of al, that the Archbir|iop of Canter- 
 {wiry doth otdinanly do thes gercmony in In- 
 
 gland. 
 
land , as the Archbif hop of Rhemes doth it in 
 France^rher is nodoabte, & with the famefo* 
 lemnity and honor,according to the coaditioa 
 tottirb andftateofotircoantrey:and Polidor Virgil 15 
 Andi< ia^*^ ^^^^ notcch th It pope Alexander did inter- 
 %iurtea^did and fufpend the Archhifhop of Yorfce, 
 With his two afliftants the bifhops of Londo & 
 Salifbjry, firchic intheabfeiicc of Thomas 
 B-cket Archbif hop of Canterbiivy, And withr 
 out hi<i licence, they did croA^ne king Henry 
 the feconds fonne, named alfo Henryy^t his fa- 
 thers perfwarion^ and diners do attribute the 
 vnfortiinate fucceffe of the faid king Henry 
 the yoagei that rebelled againft his father, ta 
 this diforderly and violent coronation by his 
 fathers appointment: fecondly that the firft 
 thing which the faid Archhifhop requireth at 
 the new kings hands at his coi onatio, is about 
 religio^n^church niatters^nd thecleargie (as in 
 France we h^ae feenej it appereth euidently 
 by thes words which the fame Archbif hop 
 Thomas (furnamed commonly the martyr) 
 remayninge in baivf hment wrote to the fame 
 Tn viea Henry the fecond which are ih^s, Memores 
 
 i^ rhom.Jitisconfejiionis quamfecifiU & pofuiftii fuper altare 
 ^<ifu- ^p^ii^^Ji^onajlenum de [cYiuniaEcckjit liberute, 
 iiAim in quando confccrati fuiflts , & vn^i in rcgem k ptAde^ 
 celforemjlroThebaldo. Which is, do you cal to 
 fexis. your remembrance, the confeflipn, which yoa 
 5> made and laid vppon the aulter at weftmin- 
 , i>fter,forkeping& defending the libertieofthe 
 w church when you were ccmfeciatcd and an- 
 
 i^oynted 
 
uthecrot^ne. F4rt i. Cap. V. ji/ 
 hoynicd king by Thebaldus our^iedcccflbr. By 
 which wordes appercih,ihat as the king of In- 
 gland was conlccratcd and anroynted in ihos 
 dayes by the Archbif hop of Canterbury , fo 
 did helvveareandgiuc vp his oihalfoin vvxi« 
 ling, and for niore folclnnity and obhgation, 
 layd it downc or rather offered it vp , with his 
 cwne handes vppon the auher, fo rr uch as 
 Vvas repuired of him by the faid Aichbif hop 6c 
 cleargie^for the fpecial fafety of rtbgion , and 
 iheis ecclefiafticalhbettics, which is the ftlfc 
 fame pointe that vvc haue fene before, as vvel 
 in the oth of ihe kings of France, as aUo of Po- 
 Ionia and Spa) ne , and of the Etrperors both 
 Grecian and German. 
 
 The very hke admonition in effcdl ^^^^^ 
 made by an other Thomas Archbif hop of Can- fpccch of 
 terbury, to an other king Hcniy , to wit by *J^^^^;^ 
 Thomas Aiundel to king Henry the fciirth, 
 vvjieninapailamcnt holden at Couentry , in f^c^ntti 
 theyeare 1404. the king was tempted by cer- thc^^Uig. 
 taync temporal men, to tajce away the tempo* 
 talityes from thecleargie,v\hcrnnio when the 
 faid Archbif hop Thomas had anfwercdby di- 
 iiers reafons, at laft turning to the kii g he 
 befought him (faith Sto\v) to rmmber the oth 
 J^hichhe voluntarily madejbat he Tn^opM honor & de- stow i» 
 fend the church and mmjlcrs therof. VVherfore 
 defired him to permit and ft^ffer the church to enioy 
 thefriuileges and liberties J)?huh intyineofbii prede^ 
 iejfors it did enioy, and to feare that king Tihtch 
 uygmth in hmacn , ^nd by j^ hom d other kings do 
 
 rcignc 
 
t X 5 A Ccnference tmching fuccefm 
 reigne merouer he defirt d himto confider his ftmifi 
 slfo 10 al we rea!we,%'hicb l^as that he Vrouldprcfaue 
 rntoeuery m^nthLir tight and tttlcy fo far a$ in btvf 
 lay. By which Ipetchof ihe Archbifhop ihc 
 king was (o hr moiied, as he would heare nc* 
 morcof thatbitofthelavuc, bcr laid that he 
 would leauc the church m as good eftate, or 
 bertcr then he found ir, and To lie did , but yet 
 hereby we ccme to learne, what urh the kings' 
 oflntjlanddo make at tber coronations lou- 
 ching the Church and cieargie. 
 HoHngrh The other conditions a!f> of good gouer- 
 cro.pag. nnencaieparteiy touched iathe fpeach of the 
 47^-^ Archbifhop, and much vnoic cxpiefly fee 
 dovvne in the kin^i of I^glands oth , recorded 
 hy ancient wrvteis , for that he fweareth as 
 both Hohnf bead and others do teftifie, in iher 
 
 inohlhftcrics, in thes verv words, to vvir. 
 TIjc Kin ' 
 ^ts of ' he ^tl during his hfe, beare reuerence & honor 
 
 England, xnto almghtle God^aiid to his Cathohque churchy and 
 rnto his mtmjkrs.andihM he '^il admimjlcr laJ^ and 
 iuflice equally to al , and take a'?' ay al mufi laii^s. 
 Which after he had fworne, laying his handes 
 vppon the gofp^ l5: ^hcn doth the Archbifhop 
 ^turning about lo thepeoplejdeclare what the 
 Icing hath promifed and fworne, and by the 
 tnoutheofaharold ar armes afkrth tlicr con- 
 fcnts,\vbe:hcr they becontent to fitbmn thetnfcl^ 
 pes vnto : his wan, as vnto ther ki^jg or no , vnder ths 
 iondttionspropofeds wheruntu v>hen they hauc 
 ycalded themfeluesjihen beginneth the Arch- 
 bifhop to put vppou him the leg^il crnamentf 
 
 asthtf 
 
tothecrfwii. Part i. Cap. V. 117 
 
 as ihc fv\ w.rd , the ring, the fceptcr> and crowne^ a^l^^ 
 a>btforcin ihc Ficnch coronation you hauc 
 hard, and namclyjieguicih him che fcepter of 
 S.Eduardthe C6nftpr,at)dxh(:i^ heacdcih allbihc 
 fjrne wordtsofcommiffion and exhoitation aj 
 the other doth, to wit,/4«rf atid hold ihy fU$c ani 
 kipe $hjf 9tb ^and therunra adioynctb a great 
 Ctinminarionoi threat, on the behalfc of ak 
 mightit Godjifhefhould takcTppon him that 
 dignity, wichout fiime purpolc to obrcriw: the 
 things which rhis day he harhfwotne, and 
 ih's is the foirmt of the Inghi h coronation 
 W hich you may read alfo by piece mcalc in 
 lohn Stowfi^ccordii g as oihcF rbirgs in that 5^0^^^ 
 hiibfccfecollcftionarefec downc) but cfpc- vita m.. 
 cially you f hal fc k in the admiflxns ss wtl of ^'^'^^^ 
 the fard kingc Hemy ihe fourth now Lft men- 
 tiontd^asalfoofkn-jgEdwardihe founh^ai rhcc 
 fiift entrances to ihe crowne, for in ihcadmif* 
 (lonof kmgHeniy,SrowfhtWcih, bow the 
 people vverc d( maunded rhrifcjlir^^rr]^^ r/.c;Trrf 
 iontattto admit him fvrther kinge , and that ihcfr^dc?* 
 Archbifhcpof Canieibi)ry (who Was the rair.e««Mwo« 
 Thoitias Arundel of whom we fpake before) tfj^^ 
 did read vnic them what this new king was 
 bound by oih vnto , and (hen he tookc the 
 ling, vvhcrwith he was to wed hym to the 
 commonwealth, (which wedding importeth 
 as you know an oth and mutual obligation on 
 both fides in euery marnadgejand the Earleof 
 Ncrthumbeiland high Conftable of Ingland, 
 for that day, waJVYiJ led 19 f hew the faid ring 
 
 to the 
 
3 1 8 A Conference tbucbin^ fuccefm 
 to ihc people, rhar they might theiby fee the 
 band v» heiby thet king was bound vniothcTn<i 
 Aiid then ir was put vppoh his finger, and the 
 king kiiied the Conftablc in figne of acceptace^ 
 felon his knees alfo to prayer that he might 
 obferue his piomiie,and oihei hkcceremonyes 
 laith Srow,vvere vied, and this was done rhe 
 I j.of Odlober i j f 9. and therfore vppo good 
 teafon might this fame Archbif hope put him 
 afterward in mynde of this his othe asbefori 
 I haue f hewed that he did. 
 The eor* At the admidion alfo of king Edward the 
 ° fourth,StoWnoieth in his Chronicle, that fiift 
 Edmtd the peoples confent was demaunded vciy fo- 
 ^ lemlyin^. lofewi feilde by London, the 29. of 
 *^ February, in the yearc 1460. notwiihftanding 
 that king Edward had proued his title , by fuc* 
 in* cefljon before in the parlament holden at weft- 
 vi-a Her. rninfter, and now this confent of the people 
 being had, ('orhebeingthuseleftedas Stowed 
 J, words arc) he went the next day in proceflTioii 
 „ at paules, and offered ther , and after, Xc Deum 
 being fong^he was with greate roy alty coueyed 
 „ to weftminfter,3nd iher in the haule fet in the 
 kings fear,wuh S.EdTt>ardsfcepterin bis handy and 
 ^jthen the people were afked agayn^ if they 
 would hiue him king, and they cry cd yea yea, 
 thus failohn Stow. V 
 
 And if any would take txccptiotf againft theS 
 ofking Henry and king Edward ihe4.bicaure 
 they cntrcd and began ther rcigncs vppon the 
 dcpriuation of otHer kings then lyuing, ther 
 
 arc yet ' 
 
tothecrd^ne. Van i. Cap. V. iij^ 
 
 areyetmany liuingin Inglandrhat h.iue fcefte 
 the feneralcoronarionsof king Edward the 6* 
 Q.Mafy'&Q^liz^^vbetbthac now reigneth,&: 
 can vvitnes that at al gnd cueiy of ihcr corona-* 
 tions,theconfent of the people and thcic'ak:cep- 
 lanon ofrhos Princes is not only demanded bjr 
 the: pnbliaue cry of a harolde at arraes , 
 which (landeth on both the fydes of the high 
 fcafroldeor ftage w her6 the Prince is.cfowt»edi 
 and the peoples anTwere expected rill thievery 
 yei -yea r tiit alfo that the l.iid Princes gaue 
 the'mvtiicir corporalothe vpon the Euangelifts 
 vnto the Bifhop that crowned them, to vp 
 holde & mnynteyne the faith afornamed, with 
 the libertiifs and priuileges of the church, as 
 ilfo to gouerne by iuftice and law , as harh bia 
 faid:which othes nodoubthaue bine fwornc 
 and taken moft folemnly by all the kings and 
 Queenes of Ingland^ from, the dayes of king; 
 Edward the ConfclTor at the leaft, and he that 
 wil fee more poynresofihes othes fet down in 
 particuler let hym teade magna carta, and he 
 Wilbefarisfied. 
 
 . By al which,and by infinite more that might 
 be faid and alleaged in this matter, and to this 
 
 f)urpore, itis mofteuident, ( faid the Ciuilian 
 awyer)that this agreement, bargayne and con- 
 .trad betwcne the king and hiscomon wealth, Ju^o^not 
 at his firftadmiffion, is as ccrtaync and firme thiscap- 
 (^nothwitftanding any pretence or inrereft he^^^* 
 hath or maye haue by fucceffion ) as any corradt 
 or mariagc in the world can be, when it is 
 
 K fokmnized 
 
1 20 A Conference touching fuccefiin 
 foleninizcd by wordes de prafcnti (as oor hv^ 
 lpeake«h) bctwene parties cfpoufcd before hf 
 vvoides defuturoy vvhichis an adt that cjcpref^ 
 feth this other moft liuely^as afterward more at 
 large If hal fhew vino yoii, and confequently I 
 muft nedes affirmc, to be moft abfurd baft and 
 impious,ihat flattery before mentioned ofBel-J 
 loy & his companions , in their bookes before 
 cited,whcre he holdcth ^that onh/fuccefio of bloody 
 ts ibeyihtng Tt>tihout further approbation j ^htch ma-* 
 ^crtions k!t^ ^ksyigy^nd that the peoples confent to hint that is 
 ofBcUoy. next by bnthy is nothing at 41 needful, be he ^hat he 
 J^ tly and that his admiJSion, innn^ion or coronation is 
 only a matter of external ceremony , Ti?tthout any ejfeU 
 at alyfor increafe or cofirmatioofhis rtght'^thes{l C^y) 
 are vnlerned , fond & v\ icked aflcrtions, in fia^ 
 teryofPrinces,to the manifeftruine ofcomon 
 weahhcsand pcruertin^^ofal law, order & rea-^* 
 fon, which allertios albeit they haue bin fuffi- 
 cientlyfasi fuppofc) refuted before, yet meanc 
 Itoftandahttlemore vppo them in this place 
 for more euident demonftration of fo im- 
 portant a truth ^ as alfo to fee & examine what 
 may duly be attributed to bare fucceffio alone, 
 to th^ end that no man may thinke* wi 
 mcane to imprque or imbafe that which we 
 efteme in fo high degree, and thinke that the 
 beft and fureft way ofmaynteyning kingly go^ 
 uermentin the world: is to haue it go by luc- 
 cefsion, as it doth at this day in Ingland, and in 
 moft other ftates of Europe befides, though yet 
 with the limitations & conditions due ther- 
 
 vuto^ 
 
tothecfoWe. Vkn x. Cap. VI. nt 
 rnto,wherofI fhal now beginne to treat morfe 
 in particulcr , but after lomc little paafe if y oqi 
 pleafe , for that this other narration hath wel 
 wc^iied mc. 
 
 VVHAT IS DVE T d 
 
 ONLY SVGCESSION BY 
 
 3BIRTH, AND VVHAT INTE^ 
 nji or right an hejre apparent hath to the cron^fie, 
 before he be cro^nedor admitted by the ctmon 
 y^eulth.and hoi^ 'iuflely he may be put 
 backs jf he haue not the other 
 fartes requifit alfo. 
 
 'Chai>^ VI. 
 
 VE R y refbnablc it (emed to al the whol^ 
 allembly ihatfomeincermiffion or paufc 
 ifhould be admitted, as t^e Ciuilian had requi-. 
 red, and thisafwcl for thecpfnthodicy of the 
 hearers , who defircd to confer together more 
 in particuler^ of the poy ntcis alredy difculled, as 
 alfoof theipeaker , who whith reafbn affir- P*^^^^ 
 xned that he was fomewhac weary , feing he 
 had continued his fpech fo long^together. And 
 fo wbiih one confenc ih^y rofe al and went 
 into an orchard adioynirig to the hou fc , and 
 after (bme houres fpace , returned agayne , for 
 thateuery man fcemed very defircus toheare 
 this other matter debated • of the inrereft of 
 
 k X Prince^ 
 
Hi ACiinferencetomhingfucUptm ' 
 Princes Before thct coronation, for that ihcf 
 faid, it touched the very pointe it felfe , now in 
 queftioninlngland, and that which is liketq 
 be inadionaUb, ere it be long,Wherforc they 
 defiredrheCiiulicin to beginne his dilcourfe, 
 and firft o/ all ro fetdowne the yery words of 
 Belloy about rhismarter^asilfo tlie places wh^ 
 Re writeth the fame ^ fdct hat his alletiions ap- 
 peared to rhtm very fbainge&:oppbfite toal 
 leafonofftate&rpradliifeof the world, asalfo^ 
 contrary to al that which hitherto had bitifaict 
 and treated. ' ^ '-^ 
 
 Wher-to tile Ciuilia anfwe^ed^tre^' it is, that 
 rheyarefoj and morcplaine and giolTe flatte- 
 ries th^neucr I haue readvttcrcd by any marj 
 to any prince or tyrant what focuer , albeit 
 moftof them(as you knoti'V} haue not fay led to 
 findasfhameles flatterers ^as themfelues were 
 eyiher va^neor wicked princes, and for my 
 part I am of opinion , that thcs proportions of 
 Bclloy vvil rather hurt and hinder,then profit 
 the prince for vvhotn and in vvhosfaivourhc 
 is thought to haue wrinen them, which is xht 
 fcing of Nauarrawhbme hereby he would ad- 
 waiincefasftefcmethj and haueadmitted to tfe 
 crowne of France^ vvhithour al confentor adr 
 miflion of thercalmcJ'Butt for my parr,as F 
 doubt not greatly of his title by propinqoity of 
 Blood 3 according to the law SaliquCj fo on the 
 other fidc^ am I ofopinion , that thes propoff- 
 tions of Btiloy in his bchalfe, that he fhoald 
 enter by only title of birth , vvbichout cfondf- 
 
fQthemii>ne. Vmi. Cap. VI. ii^ 
 jion confent or approbation of the realme , as 
 nlfo vvhuhoutothannoynting or coronation, 
 7ea of neceffitic, vvh itboiM: r^ftraint or obliga- 
 iion to fulfil anylaWjOxtoobTcrue any priuilcf 
 ges to church , chapel^cleargic^oc nobiliric,ot 
 ^o be checked by the vvhaie realme , if he rule 
 amiffe: thes rhingesi fay aie rather to terific, 
 the people and fet theai more agaynft his en- 
 trance , then to aduan,ceiiis title: and therfore 
 inmy pooue_iudgmem, it vvas nether vvitcly 
 f^'vrittcn by the one, nor poiitiquely permuted 
 by iht other. And to the end you may fee what 
 reafon Ihauero giuerhis cenfure;,! ihal here The pro* 
 Tet db/;ne his ovyne propoGtions; , touching ^^^^^'^^^y 
 -this nyatter J as [find rbeaitn i^isowne words, apolog. 
 Firftthen he auoutcheA , that d fxmthes i>Jyich 1^^^^^^^' 
 €niojfe ktngdomes tn tie wrJdTi^ere placed therm by ^ 
 Co i only m i tloM he alone cm diage the famCy w h i c h 
 if he tefcr vntogods vniuerfal ptouidence^/j/x 
 attingit afinevfcj^ie in Jinem fortiter as the fcrip- 
 ture faich, and vvhithowt yvhich afparrowfal- 
 ieth not 6 the grownd,a« our faviour teftifieth^ ^* 
 ^10 man wil deny , but ai isfrom God , ether by 
 liis ordinance or^ermiflion,buf if we talkc (as 
 wcdo^of the next & immediate c^ufes of em- 
 pyres, princes,& of dierchages^cieere ic is,that 
 men alfo do & maye concure therin , and that 
 god hath left them lawful authorityfo to do, 
 gnd to difpofe t-herof for the publique benefit, 
 largly before hath bin declared, & confe- 
 <juently to fay that god only doth thes things 
 & leauctb nothing to mans iudgemct therin is 
 IC 3 agaynft 
 
1 14 ^ Conference tmhing ftuce^on 
 agay nft al reafon vfe & experience of the worlcf * 
 The fecond' propofition ofBelloy is , thM 
 . . ^here fitch princes be once placed in gouerment , and 
 C^hof' ^'^^ fiiccefion by btrtb ejlahhfhedy there thi 
 
 fart.i.pa. princes childron or nm ofkynne do necejfarily fuccede, 
 iy only btrth, Ti^hnhout any nel^ choifc or approba^ 
 tion of the people, nobilitie, or clcArgte, or of the T^hole 
 commonT^ealtb together . And lothisalTertionhc 
 ioyneth an ocherasftraing as this, which is, 
 that a kmg neuer dtethfor that^hefoeuer or hol^-foe^ 
 3- uer he ceafeth by any meanes togouerut , then entreth 
 pirregl*. fucceffor by btrthmtas heyre to the former ^ but as 
 c.6.&%. lal^.fulgoucrnomoftherealmci^hithout anyadmtf* 
 fion at al,hauing his authority only, by the condition of 
 hitbirthandnot by adoption or cboife of any. Which, 
 two propofitions albeit they hauc bin Caffi- 
 ciently refuted, by that which hath bin fpoken 
 in the laft two chapters going before, yet f hal I 
 now agayne conuince more anoply the vn* 
 truth therof. 
 
 Other two proportions he addeth , which 
 partly haue bin touched aud anfwcred before, 
 and yct,I meane to repeat ihem agayne in this 
 place for that they appertayne to thispurpofe^ 
 Apoio-i his former is , that a prince once entred togouermet^ 
 CathoiT and fo placed 04 hath bin faidys vndernolifi^orje^ 
 ^^^'^'^'firamitc at al^of his authority^ bu^ himfelfe only 
 pro rcge ts the quick^and liaing la^, and that no Imitation can 
 hegtuen vnto him by any po^er vnder heauoi^ except 
 it be by his o^ne H^tl , and that no nation or common 
 Tt^ealthcanappoyntorprefcribe ho^ they'J^tl obey of 
 b$lp their pnnce fbal gouernc them , but muji leaut 
 
f§ the CYO^fie. Tart i . C a ?. V 1. iij 
 
 hn Authority fret from d batides ofUT^^and thU eyther 
 T^iU'tnglyoYbyvioknce^istabe procured. By wnicli 
 Vvordesitfemcthihat he paynreih out a per* 
 fed paterne of a tyranicalgouermenc, which 
 Jtiow it may further the king of Nauarres pre- 
 tence, in the cafe he ftandeth in piefenily in 
 France,! do notfee^ 
 
 His other propofftion is. That aWeit the heyre 
 apparent i^h'tch is next by birth to any croT^ne^fhould ^P^^^?- 
 te neuer fo imp^ent , or vnfit togouerne ^ as if ( for cap.io. 
 examples fake) he fhould be depriuedof his fenfes, 
 tnadd , furious^ lunatique^ a fook or the Uke^gr that he 
 f hould be kno'^ne o the other fide to be moft malicious^ 
 T^tcked, vitiom or abhomnable , or fhould degenerat 
 into a very beajl.yea if it T^er^knoJ^ne that he f hould 
 go about to deftroy the commonwealth ^ and dro'l^ne 
 the f hipp T^hich he had to guide, yet ( faith this man) 
 he muft be facred and holy vnto ys, and admitted 
 Tiohithout condradiclion to his inheritance y'Y^hich God 
 cJr nature hath laid vppon him,& his diredion reflaint 
 crpunifhmcnt muH only be remitted to. God alone , for 
 that no ma or comun i^ealth.may ref^rme or rejiraine 
 ^/w.Thus faith Bel loy, which Idoubt not vvil 
 feme vnto you rather belly and bafedodirine, 
 then to come from the head of any learned or 
 difcreet man,that regardeth the end why com* 
 raonvveahhes and kingdomes and al gouer- 
 nients vvereordeyned by God and nature , and 
 not the flattering or adoring of any one mifc- 
 rabie man thatf hal {land ouer them to diftroy 
 the whole. 
 
 But now to the particuler matter that we 
 K 4 acetft 
 
ii6 I ^ .iXncciuiichmg ftucefion 
 
 Sire to treat,vv"iiich is, what is to be attribured 
 to this fuccellion or piopinquity of birih 
 alone,lam of opinion, as before I llgnified,that 
 albeit I her want not reafons on both (ides 
 SuccefTiS araong learned men, what kinde of pvouiding 
 oYprinces gouemurs to common vvealthes is bcft, either 
 b'cttci^'heby limpleandfreeeledlion only ,or by fuccef^ 
 ^ a'o^ lion of birth: my opinion (I fay) is, that fuccef- 
 a:>vhy/ fion is much to be prefeired , not for chat if 
 vvanteth at difficulties and inconuenienccs 
 (which alcempoial things vppon earth haue) 
 {)Ut lykc as before I haue fhewed of the parti- 
 culer gouerment of a monarchic inrefpediof 
 other formes of regimet,to wit, that it wanted 
 not a! , but had fewer inconueniences then 
 Other formes of regiment haue, ro(ay I aUo of 
 this^thac albeit fomcincoiineniences want not 
 in lucceflion • vet are they commonly far leflc 
 and fewer,then would follow bv mere electio^ 
 rcsfon. vvhich is iubietft to great and continual dan- 
 gers of ambitionjemuiation,dinifion,ledifion, 
 and contention , which do bring wuh them 
 euident peril of vniuerfal deftrudlion & defoia-i 
 tion of the whole body ,& this at euery change 
 of the Prince , vvhich change on the other 
 fide , is much allured by fucceflion, for that 
 great occafions of ftrifc ^nd contention are ther 
 by cut of. 
 
 And befides this ^ the Prince who is in pre- 
 fent poflcfijon knowing that his fonne or next 
 of kynn,istobchisheyre^ hathmorecare to 
 leauc the rcalme in good ordei:, as we fee that; 
 
tothecroT^ne^ Part i. Cap» VI. 127 
 thehufbandmanhathtotil and manure that 
 gtoui>d, which is his ovvne, and to lemayns 
 tohispoftcrity. 
 
 A chirdcoaimcAlicy alio chcris , for thadciTc 
 miuations and alitrations are leene in the 
 com<ipon vvcaUh^vvhcr fucceflion preuayleth, 
 for thai rhefonne following his father, dvzh 
 fpmtEonly cetavne the fame frends , councei- 
 Jers, officiers, and (ciuants, which his father 
 had before hia)- purfueih the fame adions and 
 intentions,vvith the fame maner of preceding 
 for the mod part ; vy her as he that entereth by 
 election , being an alhen to i iim that vvent be- 
 fote him^&neuer lightly his frend^doth change 
 alter and turne vplidowne,al things. 
 
 Further more (which may be alfo a fourth 
 rearon)he that entereth by fucccffion, for that 
 he is either borne a Prince , or hath bin much 
 refpetSted ftil for his title to the cfovvne, brin- 
 : geth with him Icirepallions of hatred, emula- 
 tion, anger,enuy, or rcuenge agaynft pafciculer 
 men ('for that no man durft olFend himj thea 
 doth he which entreth by only election, for 
 that he hauiiig bjn a fubic(ii and equal to others 
 before his aduaiKrcment , and therby holdea 
 contention with many, efpccially at this ele- 
 ction, m uft needs haue matter of quarrel with 
 many, which he vvil feeke cafily to reuenge 
 whc he is in authority , as on the other fide alio 
 fuchaswerehisequales before wil beare hinx 
 lefle refpect *?c more vnvvillingly be vnder him,, 
 iben ifoy birth he had bin cher foueraiae- 
 
 K / The^ 
 
X 1 S • A Confer end touching fuccefion 
 
 Tlk:%rc- Thcs and ditiers Other are the commodities 
 fccmmcncoffacce{5on,wliervnto we may alfo ad the 
 ^ftkuca. P^'^h^n^J'^enceand priuilegdeofprimogenitu- 
 ra,and auncetrie of birth , (b much refpec^ted 
 cencf. 15 & commended by holy wcit, not only in mer>, 
 ^49^ but in al other creatures aho , whos firft borne 
 aci5. ' were dedicated to Godhimfelfe , and one no- 
 table example among other occurrerh to my 
 mynde of the two fonnes of Ifaac,of the which 
 Rom ^^^^ alfceit God had ordeyned to chufe the 
 yongerbc;fore he was borne, at S. Paul tefti- 
 fieth,and to reiedt the elder ,that is to fay , that 
 CencC z3 lacob f hould inherite the benediftion and noc 
 ^ Efau : Yet would God hauc this yonger topro- 
 cure the faid ptiuilege of elder f hip froEfau by 
 diuers meanesas firft by bargainc , and after by 
 guileaccordingtoiheftoriewe read inGenefl 
 Two Outofwhichllory two points may be ponde 
 points to red much to our purpofe, firft that primogeni- 
 turaorclderfhipof birth(as I hauefaid jwas 
 greatly refpedled byGod,and according.to thar, 
 al the difcents and fucceflions of kinges were 
 commonly among that people, for that ordi- 
 narily the eldeftfonneeuerfucceded his father 
 in thecrowncof lury. And the (econdpointe 
 iSjthatGod would f hew euen in this begining^ 
 that yet this piiuikge was not fo inuiolable, 
 bat that vppon iuftcaufesit might be broken, 
 as itwasby thishischoyfeof lacob the yoger, 
 and rciedting Efau the Elder: and many times 
 after in matter of gouerment the fame was 
 pradifed- by God himfelf, asvvbca luda th« 
 
 fourihi. 
 
tothemy^ne. Vart t. Gap. V. 119 
 fourth tribe and not Ruben the firft &eldcft ^^^^-^^ 
 ?was appointed by God CO enioy the fcepter and Exoda* 
 crowne of the lewes, as alio when king Dauii 
 dyed,not his firft fecond or thiid fonne , but his 
 tenth in order, to vvir,cWowu;i>who was alio the i- Reg. 
 fourth that he had by Berfabee , was appoit^ied 
 forhisfucceflbr. 
 
 So that in very dcede we haue here both our ^7 xc^^ 
 two cafes, that were propounded in the begin- ucd. 
 ing , puerruled and determined by authority 
 and example of holy writ it felfe, namely and 
 firft ofal,that priority and prppinquity of blood 
 in faccetlion^is greatly to be honored regarded 
 and preferred in al affaires of dignity andprin- 
 cipallity, and yet ( which is the fecond pointe) 
 arewenotfoabfolutly & peremptorily bound 
 ihervntoaiwayes, but that vppon iuftand vr- 
 gentoccafions that courfc n^ay be altered and 
 broken. 
 
 Which licence or liberty is indeed, the only ^Ij^J^^ 
 Coratleaft wife) the moft principal remedy fo.r inconue* 
 fuch inconueniences as do or may enfew ofy^^^^^^ 
 thecourfeof fucceflion, which inconuenien-iion- 
 ces as before I f hewed to be far leffe and fewer 
 then arc wont to folio w^of bare eledion alone, 
 yetdidlconfellealfo J that forae did or might 
 falout, as namely that the perfon vvho byfuc- 
 cefsion of blood is next, may be vnable or vnfit 
 or pernicious to gouerne, in vvhich cafes the 
 remedy is (as before hath bin declared)ether to 
 hclpc and afljftihim by lawes diredions and 
 yvite cooncclls , if he be capable therunto 
 
 prel$ f 
 
i50 ACcnfetencetoHchmgfucctpmxyi 
 or els toremoue him and take in another of 
 the fame blood royal Cchoiigh further of in de- 
 gree or propmquity )in his plw. 
 
 And this is and hath the cuftome and 
 pra(9:ice ofarkingdomes and commonweaL 
 thesfrom rhe beginning ^(iacefucceilicn hath 
 bin eftabltl hed among them ,as afterwardsl 
 f hal demoftrate vnto you by great ftorcofeui- 
 dent examples and preiidenres , & by this raea- 
 nes we come to remedy the dimculties and in^- 
 conueniences of both kindes of making our 
 kings and princes^vvhich are ele6tion,and fiic-- 
 ceflGon, as hath bin (aid : for by lucce{fion we 
 do remedy the inconueniences and dangers 
 Eleftlon before mentioned of bare cle£lion , ta vvit of 
 |^^^J^^^''Arifc,banding,ambirion , and the like : and by 
 feeipe rhetbisorhermeanc of adding alio election coni- 
 ^cV^^ fent and approbation of jj^e realme to fjccefl 
 fion , we remedy the inconueniences of bart 
 lucceiJion alone, vvhich inconueniences are 
 principaly, that fome vn-apt impotent or euel 
 prince may be offered fome times to enter by 
 priority of blood^vvherofthe realme may deli,- 
 iier it felfe , by this other meanes of not admits 
 dng him, fo as ekdion by fuccefsion , and fuc- 
 neflion agayne by eledtionis falued , & the one 
 made a preferuaciue and treacle to thc oiher: & 
 this is the vvifdome and high policie left by 
 <5od and nature.to euery common wealth, for 
 ^hcrowneconfcruationand maintenanccand 
 cuery man that is of reafon and iudgmcnt , 
 'laad void of paflion wil not Qoly allow , but 
 
to the croTi^he, tart r. Cap. 'V 1. i j i 
 alfo highly commend the fame. 
 
 Now rhen to anlwcre m pariicalet to the^^j-^^ 
 twoqueftions made at the beginning of this i^>i*'c-^ 
 ipeechjto vvit^vvhat is to be atrnbuttd to (uc- ^ycftS^ 
 ceffion alone 3 and fccondly what iniercft a 
 prince hpth ther-by loany crowne, before he 
 be ctowlicd or^jdmitted by the6<mon vvcaih: 
 Tothefirft I fay , that to'facceirion alone or^u^^^^i^^ 
 piTority of blood only, great honofjieueience^ tc tcW 
 and refpedt ought to be borne , as be fore hath^^ 
 bin dcctared, for that it is the ptincipal circum- 
 ftanceand coudiaion which leadeth vs to ihc 
 next fiKceffion of the crowne infahb]y,and 
 without al ftrife: if his propinqoity-be cleare 
 and euident , and that other neccflaiy circum- 
 ftanccs and conditions do concurr aifo in'the 
 fame perfon, which condicions were appoin- 
 ted and fet dcwne art thefame time , and by the 
 fame authority that this law of fuceeffion was 
 cft.iblif bed , for that both the one & the other 
 of thes two points, were ordty ned bythe com- 
 mon wealth, ro wit that the elder and firft in 
 blood fhould fucccede,andthathe fhonld be 
 fuchaperfonas can and wil gouerne to the 
 pobliqoevveale of al j asoftenandlargcly be- 
 fore harh bin auouched arid proued . 
 
 Tothe fecorid qacftion f anfwerCj that ai* wi^^gj^- 
 hey re apparent to a crowtie before his cororfa- facyrc ac- 
 tion atnd admiflion by the realme , if he haue ^^tSI to 
 the conditions before required , hath rhe fame coxoaaaa 
 inrereft to the kingdo^me , which the king of 
 Romans ^ or C^]ir hath to the Germane em^ 
 
3 3* ^ Confefenceiouthing fucceport 
 py re after his eledion and before he be crowi 
 ned: or to vfe a more familier example to In- 
 glif h men , as the Miyor of London hath to 
 che mairahieiafcerhe ischofen arid before he 
 be admiiced^orhaue taken his oth. For as this 
 roan in rigour is not truly mayor, nor hath not 
 his iurifdidion before his orh aodadmiflion^ 
 nor the other is properly Emperor before he 
 be crowned , fo is not an hcyie apparent ^ truly 
 Icing though his predecellbr be dead , and he 
 next in fucceflion , vntil he be crowned or ad- 
 lilitted by the common vvealth. 
 Example* An other example is ther in mariage alfo 
 ofrnaru- vvheiby our matter is made mord pIayne, for 
 in this concradt go both the betrothing and 
 adualioyning tog<ftherof the parties in wed- 
 lock, the fii ft is done by vvordes defuturo or for 
 the time ro come y and is.nor properly mariage, 
 tut efpoufal only ithe other is by vvofds deprar 
 fentiifkat is by mutual prefent con Cent giuen 6f 
 both parties , and this feconde is only and pro- 
 perly true mariage , which two points are ex- 
 prcfly reprefented in the ftate of an hey re appa- 
 rent and of a crowned king, for that the hey re 
 apparent by propinquity of blood , is only 
 cfpoufed or betrothed to the common wealth;, 
 for the time to come^and is marryed afterwards 
 by prefent mutual confent, of both parties , iA 
 fhecontradt and knitting vp of the matter, at 
 his coronation, by the othes which ether part 
 niaketh the tint to take the ot her, & by puting 
 Oft the ring and other \tcdding garments befo- 
 re men- 
 
rc'nnciuioncd in ther coronations, by al which ^ 
 the hcyrc apparent, (which before was but 
 cfpoiifej) is made now the rrue king and hirU 
 band of the common vvealih,vvhich before he 
 was not, byonly fuccefCon jbutonlyabetro- 
 fhed fpoufc ordefignedking,as haxhbin de- 
 clared. V 
 Wherfore it followerh alfo, that the ^c>m-JQ^^ 
 mo vveahh oweih no allegcance or fnbiedion 
 
 dew to 
 
 vnto.the heyre apparent in rigour of iuftice, ^^^^^ 
 
 vntil hefce ciotvned or admitted, though his 
 
 prcdeccdbr be dead,for that in very deede vniil 
 
 that rime, he is not ther true king & fouerai- 
 
 ce, though for better keping of order 2k auoy- 
 
 dingof tumuks, al comition wcalihcs hghtly 
 
 ifeathiuether^rinccsby fuccef^ion , haue or- 
 
 dcyned in ihcs later ages,that from the death of 
 
 the former princes, al matters of goucrment 
 
 fhalpafleintlicnameof his next fucceflor ("if 
 
 his fucceffion be cleere) and this ( as I fay ) for 
 
 auoyding of garboyics^andvnder fuppofal of 
 
 confirmation and approbation afterward of 
 
 thcc6monwea]th,athiscoronati6, forwhicli 
 
 caufe alfo,and for better accompt of yeares, it phncrt 
 
 was ordcyned that the beginning of the luc- f^^j"^^ 
 
 ceflbrs reigne,f hould be rcconcd from the day KsfrJit** 
 
 ofthe death of his prcdeceflbr, and not from ^^^f*^"^ 
 
 the day of hiscoronation^as othcrwifc in rigor prccUccC. 
 
 it ought to be,and as in old time it Was accufto- 
 
 med to be as Girard fecretary and chronicler of cirard ^ 
 
 France,doth wifely note, in his third booke of H^'-^^n L 
 
 the eftatc and affaires of France ^ to wit> that ftatcp^ 
 
 j^.^^^ ^^^^ 
 
1J4 A Cdnference touching fuccepon 
 kings in old time were vvonc roaccompt th6 
 yeares of ihet reignes fiom the day only of thel? 
 annoynting and coronation; > 
 No lieyre This poincealfo that heyres apparent are noti 
 K ^b-%re ^^^^ kings V ncil th er coronation^ how iuft foe* 
 his coro- uerther title of fucceffion otherivife l&c*, and 
 nation, though ther predecefl'ors be dead • k raighr bd 
 conlirmedby tnany other argamentSj but efpe- 
 cially and abooeal others , for that the r^-alm^ 
 _ is afkcdagayne three times at their coronati6j 
 An cui- i\;jicther tkeyT^ilhaue fuch a ma to he hing.oi no,a$ 
 gi^cnt. betorehathbin f hewed, which thing were it) 
 vayneto afke if he were truly king,asBcUoy 
 faycth.bcfbre his coronation. . .: 
 
 Againe we fee in al the formes and different 
 manners of coronarions, before recited, that 
 after the princeihath fworne diuers times to 
 goiierne weland iuftly , then do the fubiecftS 
 lake other othes of obedience and allegiance 
 and not before, which argueth that before they 
 were not bounde vnto him by allegeance, and 
 as for the princes of Ingland , it is exprefly no- 
 ted by Inglifh hiftoriographerS in ther coro- 
 , ratios, how that no allegeance is dew vnto the 
 before they be crowned , & that only it h:ippe- 
 A rarc^ ned to Henry the fifth^atliong al other kinges 
 ofKing predecelTors to haue this prenilege,and this 
 Hcjuy V. for his exceding to-wardlynes , & for the great 
 affedlionof the people towards him, that he 
 had homage donne vnto him before his coro- 
 nation,andoth taken. WherofPolidorwriteth 
 in thes vvordes: Pmceps Hemicm faito futns fu- 
 
tothecrol^ne. Van I. Cap. VI. 13 j 
 
 nCTe, concilium principum apudVVeflmonajlentm con- vk|fib!' 
 uocandm curat ^in quodum de rege creando moremu^ zi.mou 
 iorum agitabatur, cffe tihi , contmuo aliquot Pmcipes ^hco^ 
 fltro in em verh:i mirare cospirunt^ quod bentuoknth rid 
 ofjicjum nuV.t antea fnufquamrexrenumiatm ejjet^ 
 prsfiitmn conjiat.adeo Vlemtctu ab ineunte (State fpein 
 omnibm opt tnu indolis fecit. Which in IngHfh is 
 this, Prince Henry after he had finifhed his fa- 
 thers funerals ; caufed a parlament 10 be gache- 
 ted at Weftminfter, whcr whiles confulration 
 was had, according to the ancient cuflomeof^^ 
 Ingland, about creating a new king , behold ^ 
 vppon the fuddcn certaine of the nobih'ry of^^ 
 ther owne free vvilles, began to fvveare ^be-^^ 
 dience and leyalrie vnco hin:> , vvhich demon-r 
 ftration of loue and Good v vil, is wel knowne, 
 that is was neuer f hewed to any Prince before, 
 vhtil he was declared king: fo great vvas the 
 liopethat rncnhadof the towardlynes of this^^ 
 Prince Hency,euen from his tender age, thus 
 far Polidor in his ftory of Inglad. And the very 
 fame thing ^xpreffeth lohn Srow alfo in hh 
 chonicle in theswordes. To this noble Vrince b^ s^owy la 
 ajfent ofihepartament.al the fiates of the realme after ^^^^ ^^f^ 
 three duyesoffred to do fealtte before he y^as croitmcd, rhciifcof 
 orhadfvlemmz^edhu oth Welandiuplj io gouerne the ^'ogHcri- 
 common health , '^h'tch offer before nefier found 
 to be made to anj Vr'mce of Jngland , thus mnch StoT^. 
 in whofe narration a«; alfo in that of Polidor it 
 may be noted : that king Henry the fift vva« 
 not called king vntil after his coionprlon , biic 
 onlv Prince, though his father king Hen ry tKc 
 
 L fourth 
 
I io A Conference touching fucccficn 
 foiuili had bin dead now al moll a month bei 
 fore,and fccondly that rhepadamcntccnfulied 
 de Regi creando more mawrum^ (as Polidor his 
 words, are) that is , of making a new king ac- 
 cording to the ancient cuftomc of iher aunce- 
 ftors, which argueih that he was not yet 
 Icingjthoogh his father were dead^nor that the 
 manner of our old Inghfh anceftois,vvas to 
 accompt him fo^before his admiffion. 
 
 Thirdly that this demonftration of good 
 Vv il of the nobility to acknowlege him for king 
 before hiscotoiutioi'ii and oth feicmriizedTi^el and 
 ^ ' hjilj to gouerne the realme j\Nasvcty c>,tt.\otdw^^ 
 • and of inecre good wil. And lafl: of al , that this 
 ^asmuer donnetoanyTr'tnce before l^ing Henry the 
 fifty al which pointesdodrmonftratCjthaiitis 
 thecoronation and admiflion, that roakcth a 
 perfcd.and true king ^whatfoeuer the rjtle by 
 iuca (Hon be otherwife , & that except the ad- 
 mifljon of ihe common wealth be ioyntdto 
 fucce(Iion,it isnot fufficient to make a lawful 
 kmg,andoftheiwo,thcfccond is of far more 
 importance, ro wit the confci tandadmifljon 
 of the realme,then nearnesof bloodby fucccl^ 
 fion a.lone^ 
 
 A<fm5flio This I might proue by many examples in 
 fmponan I'lg'^"^ il lelfe whcr admifljon hath preuay led 
 cc ihen_ againll right of fuccefijon, as in William Rufus 
 UmGxq. j^^j (bcecded the Conquerer , and in king 
 Henry the firft his brother. In king Stephen, 
 king lohn and others , who by only admiffion 
 of the rcalmc were kings^ againft the order of 
 
 (iicceffion^ 
 
tothevrd^ne. Vart i. Cap. VI. 135 
 
 AitccnTjcnjasafcermorcatlarge I fhal fhew 
 yon i 1 a punciilcr fpcch which of ihispoinr, 
 1 1 hal mak^ unto you, and very fpecially it may 
 be fceiiJ?, in rhc two examples before mentio- 
 ned of thcadmifsion of the two kings Henry 
 and Edw.ud^borh !urna*nied the fourth, vvhos 
 entrances to thecrowne, if a man dowel con- 
 (Jder, he f hil find that both of them , founded 
 the belt pirt and moftfiirell of their titles, vp- 
 pou theel.dlio^iconlc'nt, and good vvilof the 
 people: yea both of ihcm at their dying daycs 
 hauingfome remoifeof c6(cienceCas it femedjscc thcf 
 for that they had caufed fo many men to dyej^^^^jj^^j^ 
 for maynteriance of ihcr (cueral rightcs andf^endca 
 titlcs,had nobetrervvay fo appeafe therowne^ij^^'' 
 inynds,but by thinking that they were placed Moore 
 in that rome by the voice of therealme, and^'^^^' 
 confequccly might lawfully defend the rame,&: 
 punif h fuch as went abouttodepriueihem. 
 
 Moreouer you fhal finde, ifyou looke into 
 the doings of Princes in al ages, that fuch kings 
 as were mofl pohtiviue , and had any left doubt ^^'^J. 
 or fufpicion of trebles about the title, after "a^icd"^* 
 ther deathes, haue caufed rheir f^nnes to be'^^^^^^^*^ 
 Crowned ituheir owne dayes jtrufting more to crovrvncd 
 this, then ro their title b> fucce{li6n\ though 
 they were neuer fo lawfully &c lineally difcen-dl^cs! 
 d^d. And of t^is Icould alleage you many ex- 
 amples our of diners country(^s butefpecially 
 in France . iTnce thelaft Ivneof Capetus came 
 vntothat crowne, (ot this did Hugh Capetus 
 himfelfe procuie to be donnc, to Robert his 
 
 Li cldeft 
 
158, A Conference tmhingfucccfioff 
 cldeft fonne , in his ownedaye^ , and the like 
 did king Robert procure for his yoi ger fonne 
 Hlufan^" Heniy the hrft,as Guard holdeih,and excluded 
 ljb.6.hift, his elder only by crowning Henry in hisownc 
 an. looi' daiesiHeniy.aUo did entreat the (tares of Ftace 
 An» 1061. (as before you haue hardjto adrriitt 8c ctownCr. 
 Phillip the firft, his cldeft fonne, whiles him-> 
 felfe rcjgncd,and this mans fonne I ft^^ k^rof. 
 An. nsT. did the fame alfo vntoivvofonncs of his: firft 
 ^ to Phillip, and after his death to Liiys the y;on- 
 ger, both which where crovHicd, in iher fa- 
 thers life lime^tfc this Luys agayne the yonger, 
 vvhich isihe ieucnthof that jiame,for more 
 An. ixso.^ffuf '*^^g of his fonne narned Phillip the fccod, 
 entreated the realme to admit &ciowne him 
 alio in hisownedayes i with that great folem- 
 nity , vvhich in the forn^et chapter hath bin 
 dechred. 
 
 And for this very fame caufe of fecuririejit is 
 not to be doubted) but that al vvayes the prince 
 of Spayne is fworneand admitted by the real- 
 me , during ^his fathers reigne, as before hath 
 bin faid. The fame confideration alfo moued 
 i.Reg.ii king Dauid^';to crownehis fonne Salomon in 
 hisownedajtcs, asaftervvnrd morein particu- 
 ler f halbe de^lared,andfinall)| onr k-ing Hemy 
 ^Ifo the fccond of Ingland , confidciirg the aU 
 teration that the realme had inade in admit- 
 ting king Stephen, before him ^ againft the or- 
 Polyd.& der of lineal fucceflio by propinquity of blood: 
 vitTHcn. ^^^^ fearing that the like might happen alfo 
 xici 11, after him, caufcd hiscldeft fonne named , like- 
 
tothecro^^ne. Part i. Cap. VI. 159 
 
 wife Henry, to be crowned in his life time, fo 
 as IngLmd had cvvoking Henries lining at one 
 tymc,vvith equal authoricie^and this wasdonc 
 in the 1 6.) eare of his reigne, and in the yeare of 
 our lord 1 170. but his deuifehad no good fuc- 
 ceflc, for that king Henry the yonger made 
 war loone after vppo king Henry the elder^& 
 bad boih the kings of France and Scotland , 3c 
 many nobles of Ingland and Normandie, to 
 take his pare, for which caufe it is thought, 
 th it this thing hathneuer bin put in pradri(e 
 againc fince that tyme in Ingland, but yet heer-^ 
 by if is euidentjVvhat the opinion of the worl4 
 was in thofe daves , of the force ofcoronation, 
 and admiifion of the common wealth, & how 
 litle propinquitie of blood preuailcth vvich-^ 
 out that. 
 
 And formore ample profeheerof and fuller The 
 coclulion of al the whole matter J had thought 
 to haue laid downe alfo fn this place, feme ch; 
 number of the mod notorious exarftples, that I 
 haue read, ( fori haue read many ) vvherin the 
 com mo wealth vppon iuftoccahons hath ex- 
 tended her authority to alter the natural courfe 
 of fticcellion^ by birth , but for that the thing 
 reqaireth , fome litle ftudy and loking ouer 
 fomc notes, that I naue taken out of ftories, for 
 helpe of memorie; I fhal deferric vntil our 
 next meeting , at what tyme I f hall by Gods 
 grace make this pomre very cleere, and fo endc 
 my whole difcourfe, for I fee that I haue bia 
 muclilonger the n at the begiuning IpurpofeJ 
 
 L 5 and 
 
140 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 
 ^nd now I defire much tpgiue place vntoouf 
 temporal lawyer,heciepre(cnr, who (I doubt 
 not)haih mattei to fay of moreddtdation 
 pleafurc , then ihis, though you ofyour curte- 
 Cks haue done me fo muchfauour astohearc 
 me hitherto with patience and attention, 
 Whcrvnto the whole cornpany an(vvered , ihac 
 not vvii4i patience,but with great pleafurc de- 
 light and conrentaiion, ihcy hid hard him, and 
 fo they would do the temporal lawer aUb in 
 his turne,but yet they defired him that nothing 
 of this difcourfe might be omitted , but vvholy 
 finifhed, for that it gaue very great fatisfa6i:ioa 
 to al,and opened many in»portantpointes vntQ 
 them, which they had neuer thought of be- 
 fore , and with this they parted for that night 
 cueiy man ynto his loging & habitation* 
 
 HOW THE N EXT IN 
 
 SVCCESSION BY PRO PIN- 
 CLVITY OF BLOOD, HATH OFTEN- 
 tjimes bin put ba(k^, by the cammon i^caltb , & pthen 
 further af admitted in their pUceSy euen in thofe 
 kl^igdomesTi?hcre fuccejiionpreuaileth , Tbi/A 
 manji examples of the htng^jomes of 
 lfrae!,and Spape. 
 
 Cap. VIL 
 
 AT the next meeting the CiulHan cameiti 
 very pendue^ as though his head had bin 
 
 fulof 
 
nthecrcr^fte. Tart i. Cap. VII. 141 
 fulof ftudy,vvherofbeingafked therea(bn,hc 
 anfwered, that he had reuolucdmany ftoties 
 fince his departure about thepoinrc which he 
 romifcd to treat of,& that he had fomd fuch rheCS^ 
 ore and great variety of matter, as hekncw"*^*^** 
 not'vvcl vvherto begin ,and much Idle wheiew^J^cc^ 
 to end: for (quoth hej if I/hould begin vvithpy* 
 x\v: Greii ni kinges before mentioned , it were 
 infinite that might be nlleaged, and peihaps 
 feme man would fay, they were ouer old , and 
 far fetched exampks,and cannot be prelldenisobicaiSt 
 to V6 in thefe ages , ^ if I lay before you the ex. 
 amplesof Romnne kings and emperors put in 
 and out,againfl; the law and right of fuccellion: 
 the fame men perhapps wil anfw^r , that ic 
 was by force,and iniury of mutinous fouldiars^ 
 whervnto that common wealth was greatly 
 fubic(5l. And if I fhculd bring forth any prefi- 
 dents and examples of holy jfcriptores , fome 
 other might chance to reply , that this was by 
 particuler priuilege , wherin God almightie 
 would deale and difpofe of things againft the 
 ordinary courfe of mans law^as bed liked him- - 
 (life, whpfe wil is more then law,andwho{c 
 aiftic ns arc right it felfe^for that he is lord of al, 
 and to be limited by no rule,or law of man, but 
 yet that this is nor properly the adte of a com-* 
 tnon wealth asourqueftiondemanndeth. 
 
 Thus( I (ay)it may be,ihat fome mm would 
 reply, and therfore hauing ftore inough of 
 plaine and euident matter , which h^th no ex- 
 ception ^ for that it hath happened in fetled 
 L 4 common 
 
com mo vvealthes,& thofc n^cre home^ where 
 rile law of flicceflion is leceaucd and cftablif^ 
 hed,to vvir, in Spayne, France, and Inglahd : { 
 Thccx- Thai rctyre my fclfe to them alone: but yet put- 
 thcUvfcs^^^^ you in mynd before I paflc any further, 
 ,.l^eg.«. that it is a maitet much to be marked how god 
 deit in this poynt with the people of Ilracl , at 
 the beginning , afcet he had gtaunted to them, 
 that they fhould haue the famcgouerment of 
 kings, that other nations rouud about the had, 
 vvhoskings'did ordinarily reigne by luccefiioa 
 as ours do ar this day , and as al the kings of the 
 lewesdid afterw^ards , and yet this not-vvith 
 ftanding, God arthe beginning, to wit , at the 
 very entra'nce ofthdirfii ft kings, would fhcw 
 playnely that this law of fitccedii-ig of the one 
 the other, by bjrth and propinquity of blood, 
 (though for the moft part , it fhould prcuaile) 
 yet that it was not fo prccifely neceffary y but; 
 that vppoii iuft caufesit might be altered. 
 
 Forprodfe wherof, we Are to confidcr^ihat 
 albeit he madeSaiile atrewahd lawful king 
 ouer thel^wes , 8t confequently alfogaue him 
 al kingly priuileges benefites and prerogatiues; 
 i^gSai!- belonging 'to that degree and ftatc, wherof one" 
 principal (as you know J is to haue his children 
 fuccede afterhim inihecrov^vne: yet after his 
 death God fulFred not any one of his generatfo 
 to fucied him, though he left beh^nde him 
 ^ ^ many children',' and among others jfbofah a 
 ^2i/ princeof ^q.yenfesofage whonj ilf^mthege- 
 neralcaptaync oif ihAt nation, with eleue tribes 
 ' ' followed 
 
to the CYo'J^ne. Vart i. Cap. VII. 145 
 fallowed for a tyme, as their lawful lord and 
 mafter by fucccilion, vntil God checked the m 
 for it , and induced them to reiedl him though 
 heyre apparent by di(cenr,and to cleaue to Da* 
 uid newly elec^ted king,vvho was a ftranger by 
 birilje ,&no kynneai al to the king dcceakd. 
 
 And if you fay heere that this was for theAn obic 
 finne ofSaule , whom God had reieded , I do J;^"^^^^ 
 confefTe it , but yet this is nothing againft our 
 pnrpofe , for rhat we pretend not that a prince 
 th.1t is next in blood can iullly be put back^ ex- 
 cept it be^ for hisownedefeds^orthofeof his 
 anccftors. And iroreoucr I would haire you 
 confider^that by this it is euident^ihat the fault 
 cf the father may preiudicate the fonnes right 
 tothccrownc, albeit the fonne haue no parte 
 in the fanlt; , as vve may fc in this example not 
 only of J/^flfy^/fe that was punilhed and depri- 
 ucd for the offence of Saul his fatherfnot with 
 (landing he had bin prodaymed king as hath 
 bin faiJj but alio of lonathas Saulcs other 
 fonne ,vvho was fogood a man , and fo much 
 prayfedinholy fcripture,&ytthe being flayne 
 in warr, and leaning a fonne named Mtphtbofcth ^-^^gf- ' 
 he was put backalTb , though by nearnes of 
 blood he had great interefl: in the fuccdflion as 
 you fee, and much before Dauid. 
 
 Bm Dauid being placed in the crowne by^.^ng 
 cUdion, free ponlent, & admiffion of the peo- by 
 p!e of Ifracl, as the fcripture playnly tvftifieih 
 (though by motion and diredioc of God him- iRcg.i. 
 Iclfej wemuftconfefle^and no man I thinke^^' 
 * L / vvil 
 
144 A Conference touching fucccpon 
 vvil deny, but that he haJ giucn vnto him ther 
 which, al kingly priuile /esprehemincnccs and 
 legaluics, euen in ihehighclKlcgree^as was 
 coniienicnt to fuch a ftate , and among othvr, 
 the fctiptnre expre!ly namech , that in particu* 
 ^ ^ ler it was alTuied him by God , thar his feeds 
 ' * * fhouldreignc after hm:yea and that for emyhuiytz 
 we do not findethis CO be performed to any 
 of his elder (onnes ( as by order of fuccellion it 
 fhouldfcmcto appertaine) no nor to any of 
 their of.fpringordifcencSjbut only to Salomo^ 
 which was hisyonger and tench fonnc, and 
 the fourth o.ily by BerfabcCi as before hath bin 
 touched. 
 
 Trew it is,that the fcripture recounteth how 
 A-tonias AdomM Dauids elder fonne^ihat was of rare 
 thcdder bewiy a very godly yong princc,feing his fa* 
 kOiid ^^^^ now very old & impotent , & to lye on his 
 death bedd,& himlelfc hey re apparent byanti- 
 quirie of bloode, after the death of Abfa!on,his 
 cider brother that was flay ne before,he had de* 
 terminei to haiie proclamed himfelf heire ap- 
 paretin lerufalem before his father died ,& for 
 that piirpofe had ordeyned a greate alfembly 5c 
 banquet, had called vnto it both ihe high preift 
 sKeg.i. jii^ia:har,lk diners of the cleargie,as alio ihe ge- 
 neral captaine of al the arn-jy of Ifra^rl n^mej 
 Ifli^i&.With other of (he nobility and with iheal 
 the reft i)f his brcthei c,chat were (onnes to king 
 Dauid/auingonly Salomo, toi^ether with ma-* 
 ny other princcs& great men, both fpiritual Sc 
 temporal of that eftate, and had prepared foe 
 
 them 
 
Uthecri^ne. Tart i. Cap. VII. 14; 
 
 themagreacfeaftas I hauefaid, meaning that 
 very day 10 proclay me himfelfe heyre apparent 
 to thecro Ane,and to becrowned,as m deed by 
 fuccefllon of blood it appertayned vnto himtxhc mo* 
 and I Ills he attempted (b much the rather, by ot 
 council of his frends , for that he (aw the king ^^^'^ 
 his father v^ry old and imjotent, and redy to 
 dyc^and had taken no order at al for his fuc- 
 ceilor, and moreouer had vnderftood, 
 
 how chat Berlabee Salomons mother had (omc 
 hope to haue her fonne reigne after Dauid^ 
 pon a certaine promifc that Dauid in his 
 youth had made vnto her then f, as alfo i hc 
 had in ihefpecial fauonrand frendf hip which 
 Nathan the Prophef,and Sadoc the preift (who 
 could do much with the old king Dauid) did 
 bearc vnto her fonne Salomon , aboue al the 
 jeft of his brethren. 
 
 Herevppon ( I fay) thefe two that is to (aye, 
 Queene B^rrfabce & Nathan the Prophet, com- Fcrfuatiot 
 ming together to the old man , as he lay on his Dauld^o 
 bedd, and putting him in mynd of his promife, make sa^ 
 andoih made toBerfabee for the pr^f^rnient J^J.^^^^^*^ 
 of her fonne, and f hewing bcfides how that 
 ilr/am.« whithout his order and confent, had 
 gathered an allembly to make himlelfeking, 
 euen that very day ( which did put the old king 
 in very great feare and anger) and further alfo 
 telling iiim (vvhich pleated him wel )quodocuU 
 $otiuslfrael ineumrefptcercnt ^vtindtcatet eU, quis 
 federet in folto fuo poH ipfum: that is , that the eyes 
 of ai llraclvvece vpponhim to fee whom he 
 
 would 
 
12 8 A Confereme torching fucee^'m v 
 would commend vntothem , to fit in his rfeat 
 afcer him,wiiich was as much to fay^ns that the 
 vyhole comm5 wealth referred it to his choife, 
 which of his foones fhouldreigne afcer him. 
 
 Thccoro- Vppon thcfe rea(bns and pcrfuafions/' I fay j. 
 
 I^^^^^thegood old king was corenc that they ( hould 
 ' take Salomon out of hand, and put him vppon 
 the kings owne mule^and cany him about the 
 
 3.Reg.u ftreets of lerufalem, accompained whith his 
 gard and court, and crying whith found of 
 trumpets Viuat Rex Salomon y and thu Sadoc, 
 the pteift f hould annoynt him,and after that he 
 f hould be brought back, and placed in the 
 royal throne in the pallace , and fo indeed he 
 \v:as: at whar time king Dauid himfelfe being 
 not able through impotencie, to rife out of his 
 b;^dd, did him honor and reuerence from the 
 place vvher he laye: for fo fiith the fcriptures 
 adorauit rex m Uiiulofuo , king Dauid adored his 
 lonne Salomon thus crowned , euen from his 
 bedd , al which no doubt thoaghe yt may 
 feemetohaue bin wrought by humane mea- 
 nes and pollicy, yet muft we confclfe thut it 
 was principally by the(p?cial inftindt of God 
 himfelfe, as bythefequel andfuccclle wefce, 
 
 Apoynt ^"^^^^^^ hereby alfo we are taught^ihaf ihefe&: 
 
 to beno-Iikedeterminationsof tliepeoplc* magiftrates, 
 . & comon wealthcs , about admitting or refu- 
 fing ofprincestoreigneornot to reigne ouer 
 them, when their defignements are to good 
 endes,andforiufl:refpe(3:s and caufes, are al- 
 lowed alfoby God, and ofcemymes^ are bis 
 
 owne 
 
uthemi^m. V^n i. Cap. -VII. 147 
 
 owne fpccial cin ftcs and difpofitions , though 
 they feme coconnc from man. 
 
 Whtrofnoone ihing can glue a more cui- The man. 
 depc proofcj then that which cnfued afterward nuihoa"^ 
 topni}ce Foto^Wjihe lawful fonneand heyreof n.c^ 
 of this king Salomon , who after his fathers ^^bi^m. 
 death commingco wheial thepeople of 
 Ifracl were gathered together , for his corona- 
 tion , and admiflion y accoiding to his right by ^.Rcg.u* 
 fiicceffion. For vntil that time vvq fee he was 
 not accounted true kinge, thought his father 
 Was dead, and this is to be noted, the people be- 
 gin to propofevn to him certayne conditions, 
 for taking away of (bme hardeand heauy im- 
 pofitions, layed vppon them by Salomon his 
 father, (an euident prefident of the oth and 
 conditions that princes do fwere vntointhes 
 dayes at their coronation ) vvhervnio when 
 Bobonm rtfuled to yeild,tcn tribes of the twelue 
 refu(ed to admit him foi: their kmg , but chofc 
 rather out: lenhoam Roboamsferuant,that was j.Rcg.ii. 
 a meereftranger and but of poore parentage, 
 & made him iher lawful king,& God allowed 
 iherof as the fcriptare in exprefTe words doth 
 teftifierand when Rcboam that toke himfelfe 
 10 be openly iniuried heerby , would by^rmes 
 haucpurlued his title, and had gathered; toge- 
 ther an arinie of a hundred and fowerfcore 
 thovvfand chofen fouldiars ( as the fcnpture^^^f 
 fayeth) to punifh thes rcbells as he called the , * ^ 
 & to reduce rhes io tribes to their due obediccc 
 of chcr natural prince : God appeercd vnto one 
 
 Semeta 
 
14^ A Conference mchin^ fmepon 
 Semeia a holy man^Sc J^ad him go to the campc 
 cfRQboa?n,md tel them play nely that he would 
 not hiue them to fight againltthcr brethcrn^; 
 that had chofen an other king, but that eucrir 
 nianfhould go home to his hbufe, and liue 
 quietly vnder the king, which each party had^ 
 and (o they did, and this was the end of that 
 tumult^vvhichGod forthefinnes of Salomon 
 liad permitted and allowed of. And thus much 
 by the way I thought good to touch out of 
 holy fcripture, concerning the lewifh comoft 
 wealth, euen at the beginni«)g , for that it may 
 gioe light to al the reft which after I am td^ 
 trc.neof, for if God permitted and allowed this 
 in his ownecommonweahh , that was to be 
 the exaple and paterne of al others, that f hould 
 cnfcW:no doubt but that heapproueth aUoihc 
 fimein other regimes when iuft occafions are 
 oflrcd , either for his (eruice,thegocd of the 
 people and iealme,or els for punifhment of 
 the linnes and wickednes of fome princes , that 
 the ordinary line of (ncceflion be alttcd. 
 Fonrc ra Nowihen topalleon further y and to begyii 
 CCS of with the kingdomes of Spayne, fuppofing 
 ^amfh yIjIj ground of Gods ordenance , aS 
 
 hathbmdeclared:fiiftlfay , that Spayne hath 
 had three orfoureracesordircenrsofkings,ai 
 Francealfaand liigLind hauehad ,and thefirfli 
 race was fiom the Gothes, which began theii 
 inorar^ riigne in Spayne after the expulfion of the 
 lib.ii. Ronians,abour the yeareofChnrt 416. towha 
 bift- c. 12. the Spaniard rcfcrreth al his DQ^ihty, a* 
 
toth€m'J^re. Tart i. Cap. VII. 149 
 
 tlicfrench man doth to the German Franckcs, 
 and the Ir.glifh to the Saxons^ which entied 
 France and Ingland in the very lame age, that 
 theocherdid Spaync the race of Goihyf h 
 kynges indurtd by the fpace of 300. years 
 vntil $paync was loft vnto the Moorcs. 
 
 The Ic condrace is fi omDo^Pr/^jo that was 
 chofen fiiftkingof J/?«)7<^^ , and of the moun-*'^^^ 
 tay ne couiitrey of Spaine , after thediftrudion 
 therof by iheMooies,nbouttheyeareofChiift ^^j^ 
 717. as bcfoiehathbintouch:d J which racej„ojai. 
 contyncwcd &: increafcd, &r added kingdoir.eiit>-u-c* 
 vnto kingdomc for the fpice of other three 
 hundred yeares, to wit vnti! iheyeareofChrift 
 I0}4.when Don Sancho mayor king of Nauarra 
 gat vnto his power , the Earldome alfoof Ara- ^z.^j.^ 
 gon and CalliHa , and made them kingdomcs, 
 anddcuidcd ihem among his children, and to 
 hisfecond ionnc, named Dew Ffrw#i;;^/(?, furna- 
 mcdafteiward /iS^t' ^rc^r he gaue not only the 
 faid Eaildcmc of Caftiliawiih title of king- 
 domc,biuby mariyngealfo of thefifrer oiDon 
 VamudoV\x\g of Leon, and Afturias , he ioyned 
 al tbofe kingdomes together, &fo began from 
 thatdny forward the third race of the kings of 3. Race. 
 Nauarto reigneinCafteF, and fo indurcd for 
 fyuehundffd yearcs vntil the yeare of Chrift 
 I f40.whcthehoufeofAuftriaentredtoreignc 
 iher, by manage of the daughter and heyre of[f^"^^J j 
 DonFerdinando (urnamed the Cathohc)ue,and 
 this was the fourth raceof Spanifh kings after 
 the Romans , which cndureth vntil this day. 4 JUce, 
 ' And 
 
I/O A Conference WJcMngfuccepon 
 txnmpiffs And albeit in aichesfoure races and ranckds 
 wc.^^^^ of royal difcents, diucrs exaplcs might be allea- 
 ged for manifeft proofe of n>y purpofc : yet wil 
 I nor deale which thc firft race/orthat ic iseui- 
 d^nt by the cou nccls of Toledo before aHeaged 
 (^vvhichvverehdiden in that very time) that in 
 ihofe daycs expreiTe eledion ^ was^^ioy ncd with 
 lucce{Iion,a5 by the depofition'of king Saintila 
 and pntting back of al his children : as alfo by 
 the ekcl;ron &c approbation of king Sifiriando 
 that was further of by (ucceflion , hath bin in- 
 finuatcd before, & in the fyft councelof that 
 age in Toledo , it is decrctd exprefly in thefe 
 wordes; Si qtmtaliamcditatus fuerit ( talking of 
 To^^ J pierending to be king J cjuem nec ele^cr omnttm 
 perficit. nccGothtu gentis nobihus ad hunc honoris 
 aptcem frahtt :fu confartk Cathohcortanpriuatns, & 
 diuino anutbenuie cmdemnams* If any man fhal 
 imagiii ((aid thes fathers ) or go about to afpirc 
 " to the kjngdome, whom the eleflion S:. choife 
 of al the rcalme% doth not make perfccS: , nor 
 ^'thenobility oftheGotifh nation, doth draw 
 *'tb the height ^of this dignity : let hini be de- 
 priued of al Cathohque fbciety, and damned by 
 ^' rhe curie of almighty God,by which woords is 
 infinaated 5 that not only the nobility of Go- 
 tifh bloodjOr neerncs by fucceffion was rcqni- 
 *'rcd for the mr.kingx)f ther king , biTt mucK 
 *'more the choife or adnnflion of 'al ihe real- 
 n^e,whcrin thiscouncel piirteth the^etfedion 
 of i-is title. 
 
 The like determinatio was made in ati other 
 
 counccl 
 
tothecfo^ne. Tart x. Cap. VII. iji 
 
 coiincel at the fame place , before this that I 
 bane alleagedj&r the vvordes are rhefe. Nullm Conc.toT. 
 4pd nos prefumptione regmm arripiat.fed defun^o in 
 pace princ'tpe , opttmates gentis cum facerdotibm fuc^ 
 cejforem regm commum concilio conjlttuant. Which 
 in Inglifh is thus, let no man with vs fnatche 
 the kingdome by prefumptionjbuc the former 
 Prince being deadin peace, let the nobiiiiy of 
 the nation,together with the Priefts and clear- 
 gie^appointlhe fuccellbr of the kingdome, by 
 commoncouncel,whichis, as much to fay as 
 if he had faid,let no man enter vppon the king- 
 dome by prefumption of fucceflion alone, buc * 
 let the Lords temporal and fpiiitual , by com- 
 mon voice, fee what is beft for the weal pu- 
 bhqne. 
 
 Now then, according to thes ancient de- Eramplw 
 crees,albcit in the fecond race of Don ?ekjo, the 
 lawof fucceffion by propinquity of blood,was " 
 reuewed,and much more eftablifhed then be- 
 fore,as the ancient bifhop of Tuys and Molma, ^^J^^^^'j 
 and other fpanifh writers doteftifie: yet that ^*hiirjir! 
 the next in blood was ofteniymes put back by 
 the common wealth vppon iuft cau(es,thes ex- haicd. 
 amples following f hal teftifie,as brcefly recou- 
 ted as I can podibly. 
 
 Don Pelayo died in the yearc of our Lord 757. KingDoa 
 and left a Ibnne named Don VautU , who was 
 king after his father, and reigned two yeares 
 only. After whos death , none of his children 
 were admited for king, thoughe he left duiers, 
 as al writers do tcftifie. But as Don Lucas the 
 
 M Bifhop 
 
xji A Conference touching fuccefwn 
 Bifhopof Tuy a very ancient author vvriteth, 
 Aldefonfm Catholicus ah xniuerfo populo Gothorum 
 cap.6.p. ' W/g/.W, that is (as the chronicler Morahs doch 
 tranilat in fpanifh) Don Alonfo furnamed the 
 Cathohqiie^was chofen to be king by al voices 
 of ihcGotifh nation.This Don Alonfo was fonne 
 in law to the former king Tau'tk, as Morales 
 fayeihjfor that he had his daughrer Ermencfenda 
 in mariage,& he vvas preferred befoie the kings 
 owne Tonnes, only for that they were yonge Sc 
 vn-able togoiiernc,as the faid hiftoriographer 
 teftifycth. And how wel this feloutfor theco- 
 iTion wealth and how excellent a king this Do» 
 Alonfo pvoucd y M^r^/^/ f hew eth at large, from 
 the tenth chapter of his thirteenth booke vntil 
 Ip^fc'sa-^^^ 17. and Sebajlianm Bifhop of Salamanca, 
 lam in that liucd in the fame ty me, writeth that of his 
 liift. Hifp. y^jjjppi- he was furnaiTicd the great. 
 K Don '^^ ^^^^ farnons Don Alonfo y(\xccQAt6 his fonnc 
 Aionio y DontrueU the firft of that name, who was a 
 Pofruc- noble king for 10. yeares fpace, and had diners 
 excellent vi<3^ories ag^inft the Moores, bur af- 
 terward declining 10 tyrannic, he became hate • 
 ful tohis fubieftsjand for that he put to death 
 wrongfully his owne brother DonVmerano, a 
 ^ Prince of excellent partes and rarely beloucd of 
 3^!!cap. 17 Spaniards^he was him felfe put downc,and 
 An.768. put to death by them in the yeare of Chrift 
 768. And albeit this kyng left two goodly 
 children bchinde him , which were lawfully 
 begotten vppo his Queene Dona Munia. the one 
 of them a fonne called Don Alonfo, & i he 01 her a 
 
 daughter 
 
 1 
 
tothecrol^ne. Tart i. Cap., VI T. ijj 
 
 daughcercalled Dona Ximea: yet for the hatred breaches 
 conceaoedagainft therfather,neytherof[hcm of mcccli 
 was admitted by the realme to fuccede him, 
 but rather his cofen german, named Don Aurelto ^^^^^ ^ 
 hroihQts Conn^ to Don Alonfo the catholujuey was n. 
 preferred, and reigned peacably (ixyeares , and ^l^'^lifj^* 
 then dying without iiiue, for that the hatred of 
 the fpaniards, was not yet ended againft the 
 memory of king Fm/^, they would not yet ad- 
 mit any of his generatiofi, but rather excluded 
 rh*m ag.iynethe fecond tyme, and admitted a 
 brotherin lawof his, named DfinStlo, that was j^j^gP^^ 
 married to his filter Dona Adofinda daughter to Sil©. 
 the fore faid noble kingcathohque Alonfo. 
 So that here we fee twi^cfhe right heyresof 
 king Don Frtiela for his euel gouerment were 
 put back. 
 
 But Don ^i/o being dead without iirue,asa!(b Kingt>on 
 DonAtmlw was before him , and the Spaniards ^^^^^jj^j^j^^ 
 anijer againft kincr ^rueU bein^ now vvel ajff- 
 uaged, they admitted to thekmgdon e his fore 
 faid fonne, Don Alonfo the yonger, futnamed 
 afterward the chaft 5 whom now twife be fore 
 they had put back,as you haue feene, but now 
 they admitted him, though hisreigne at the firlt 
 endured very litle , for that a certaync baftard 
 vncleofhis, named DonMamegato by help o^^^^^'i^ 
 themooresputhimout,and reigned by force " ' 
 6.yeares, and in the end dying with outiflue, 
 the matter came in dehberation againe, whe- 
 ther the king Don Alonfo the chafte chat yet li- 
 ucd , and had bui hidden in a monaftary of 
 M z Galiiia, 
 
1/4 A Conference touching fuccef ton 
 A ftrange Galitia,cluring the tyme of the tyrat,f hould fc- 
 «[clibcra. tumc agayne to goueine, or rather that his co- 
 fengerman Dow verw«(/a(onne to his vncle, the 
 Viwcc Vtmeram (whom vvc fi evved before to 
 haue byn flaynt by this mans father king True^ 
 laj f l^ould be elcded in his place. And the 
 rcalme of Spayne determined the lecond, to 
 vvir^that Don F^rw«(/o though he were much 
 furtherof, by propinquity of blood, and with 
 in ecclefiaftical order alfo (for that he had bin 
 madedeacon) f hould be admitted, partly for 
 that he was judged for the more vaHant and 
 Great au- ^^^^ Pnnce, then the other,vvho feemed to be 
 thoritie made more acquainted now with the hfeof 
 vvcalTh*^ monkes,and religions men,fhen of a king, ha- 
 uing firft bin brought vp among them for lo. 
 or ii.yeares fpace , vvhiles Don Aurelio andDon 
 silo reigned after the death of his father kinge 
 Fruetdy^nd fccondly agayne other fix yeares^du- 
 ring the reigne of the tyrant Uauregato , foe 
 which caufcjthey eftemed the other to be fitter, 
 asalfofbr the difFeret memories of there two 
 fathers king Fm/^ and prince Fwier^iwo^whtrof 
 the firft was hateful, & the other moft deare^as ' 
 before hath bin declared, nether do any of the 
 foure ancient Bifhops hiftoiiographers of 
 Spayne,to\vit,that of Toledo, BefaySaUmancs 
 or Twr^jthai liued al about thofe dayes & wrote 
 the ftorie,reprehend this fad: of the reahTie of 
 fpaine,or put any doubt whether it were lawful 
 cr no for the cau fes before recited. 
 
 Trew it is, that after three yearcs reigne,this 
 
 king 
 
tothecYol^ne. Part i. Cap. VII. i/y 
 
 hing Vermudo being weary of kingly life, 
 feeling fomelcruple of confciencq, that bcing^pyncth 
 deacon, he had forfaken the life eccleliaftical, ^he fecoi 
 and maiyed (though by di(penfation of the 
 popeabMor^fey layech^ and tniangled himfelfe^^j.^^^ 
 With the alfaires of a kingdome, he refigned zi.& 19. 
 willingly the gonermenr vnto his faid Cofen, ^^- 7^^- 
 D(?«i4/o«/athechaft, and himfelfe liued after a 
 priuate life for diuersycares,but this Don Alonfo 
 who now the fourth tyme, had bin depriued 
 of his fucceflion , asyouhauefeene, deceaued 
 the expeAation of the fpaniards, that accoijp- 
 tedhim a monke/orheproued themoftvaliac 
 and excellent king that euer that nation had, 
 both for his vertue,vilor, vidlories^againft the 
 ,moores,bayldingoftownes,cafl:ells,churches, 
 Monafteries, and other fuch woikcs, of Chri- 
 ftianity, as Morales recounteth : and be reigned 
 after this his laft admiflion, one and fyftie yea- 
 res, & had great frendfhip with king Charles 
 the great of France, who lined in the fame 
 tymewirhhym. And this man among other 
 moft noble exploites (o tamed the Moores of 
 his country, as during his dayes, he neuer paid j^|^/ap 
 that cruel and horrible tribute which before & 4*- Anno 
 after was paide by the chriftians to the Moores, ^"^^^ 
 which was a hundred yong maidens and fifcie ^ Y\ox\h\t 
 fonnes of Getlemen, euery yeare to be brought tribute, 
 vp in the religioofM4^ow^/,amogtho(e infidel 
 tyrants. And finally this man after fo much 
 affli(5tio came to be one of the moft renoumed 
 Princes of the world. 
 
 M 3 After^ 
 
jj6 A Conference touching fucctfwn 
 
 Adtxxhiy Don AlonfoyS vhoXsih no children, 
 for that he would neutr marry, bur Hued al liis 
 life in chaftitye,iherfuccedcd to him byeledio. 
 King Do his nephew named Don Ramtro (bnne ro the for- 
 Kainijo.x n^^^ faidking Don Vermudo the deacon, that 
 aion. gaue this man the crowne,as you haiiehard^of 
 whofeelec^lm morales writeth thcfewoords. 
 Morale Uuerto el Key Don Alonfo d cajlo , fue eligtdo por los 
 pjrUdos J grandes dvlreyno, elEeyDon Ramtro pri-^ 
 merodcjtenombrey hy'io dclReyDon vcmudo el dta» 
 cono,Thzt iSjthe king Don Aldfo the chart being 
 dead, ther was chofen king by the Prelates & 
 nobiluy ofthe realme, Don Ramtro the firft of . 
 this name, (onneuf'king Kc7w«^() the deacon, 
 who refigncdhiscrowneto Don Alonfo , and ic 
 is to be noted^ that albeit this Don RAmtro was 
 next in blood to tbefucreffion, after the death 
 ofhisvncle Don Alonfo without children , yet 
 was he chofen by the ftates as here it is faid in 
 cxprelTe vvordes. 
 
 Moreouer it is to be noted , that albeit this 
 ^mhot Ambrofio Morales zx)d other fpanifh wri- 
 ters do lay that in the tyme of this king Ramtro^ 
 the law of fucccllion by pro|_ inquiry in blood 
 was lb reuiued and ftiongly confirmed, that as 
 Tbcking- the kingdome ofSpayne was made as Matorafgo 
 Spo^nca ashetermeth it, which is, an inheritance fo 
 Maio- intaylcd and tyed only to the next in blood , as 
 ther is no poflibility to alter the fame, and that 
 fr5 this tyme forward the king alwayes caufed 
 his eldeft fonncto be nan-icd kmg or Prince, 
 {o eueno belworne^by the rcaiiTie&: nobiliric, 
 
 yet 
 
to the CYoTi^nc. Tart i. Cap. VIL 157 
 
 yet f hal vvc find this ordinance and fucceflioa 
 bfcentymestohaue byn broken vpponfeneial 
 confiderations,asthis author himlclfein that 
 very chapter, confelleth. 
 
 As for example, after foure difcents from 
 this man,vvhich were Don Ordomo the firft, this 
 mans fonne^and Don Alonfo the third, Don Gar^ 
 zjx and Don Ordomo the fecondy al fewer kings by 
 orderly rucce(Iion,it happened that in the yeare ocdcm?o 
 ofchrift 924. DonOrdonioxh^ fecond, dying. An. 5,24/ 
 left foure Tonnes and one daughter lawfully 
 begotten,andyettheftate of fpayne dilplaced 
 them al,andgauethe kingdome to ther vncle 
 Dow TrueU fecond brother to there father Don 
 Ordonio,2Lnd morales fayeth that rher appeareth Moral.!, 
 noocher reafon heerof, but only for that thefe ^l^^^^' 
 fbnnes of the king difceafed were yong,and 
 not i'o apt to gouerne . vvel the realme as ther 
 vncle was. 
 
 Bat after a yeares reigne, this king TrueU 
 dyed al(b, & Icfc diuers children at mans eftate, 
 and then did the fpaniards as much agaynft 
 them, as they had done for him before, againfl: 
 the children of his elder brother. For they put 
 them al by the crowne,& chofe for their king^ 
 Don Ahnfo ih.^ fomih which was eldcft fanncDon A- 
 to Do;iOrrfo«i(?rhe fecondjbcforc named , that^^^^^ 
 had bin laft king fauing one, and this man alfo 
 (l meane Don Alonfo the fourth) leaning after- 
 ward his kingdome and betaking him felfe to a 
 religious habit, offered to the commo wealth 
 oflpaine, his tldeft fonne lawfully begoaen 
 M 4 named 
 
I J S A Cancel met touching fuccefton 
 named DoOrdonio to be there king, but they re- 
 fufed him,and looke his brorher (I meane this 
 Don Ra- kings brother) and vncle to the yong Pnnce, 
 ul^hb% ^^^^^ Ramiro.who reigned 1 9.yeares,and 
 cap. 20. was a mod excellent king, and gayned Madrid 
 An.>3o. fj-Qj^ J j^g Mooresjthough noted of crucltie, for 
 imprifoning&pulhngout the eyes afterward 
 of this king Don Alonfo the 4. and al his children 
 and nephewes,for that he would haue left his 
 habit,and returned to be kingagaine. But this 
 fad^my author M(?r^e/fyexcufeth, faying that ic 
 was requifite for peace and fafty of the realmc, 
 fo as heere you fee two moft maniftft alteratios 
 of lineal fucceffion together by order of the 
 common wealth. 
 
 Furthermore,after this noble king DoRamir^ 
 thefecond, fucceded ashtyte apparent to the 
 ' crowne his cider fonne , Don Ordomo the third, 
 ofthisname,in theyeare of our Sauiour jfo. 
 but this fucceflion indured no longer then vnro 
 hisovvnedeath,which was after y.yeares, for 
 then albeit he left a fonne named elenfame Don 
 Vermudo^yct he was not admitted, but rather his 
 .brother, Don Sancho the Urd of this mmc^ fur- 
 named el Gordo, who was vncle to the yong 
 Prince,and the reafon of this alteration. Mora- 
 les giueth in thes wordes: el ftic ceder cn el regno, 
 al hermano , fue por U racon ordmarta de fer cl 
 enfantCy Don Vermudo mno y no b aflame para el 
 gouiernojf dtfen^a de la terra. Which is, the caufc 
 why the kings brother and not his fonne Ibc* 
 ceded in the ciQwne^ was for the ordinary 
 
 leafon 
 
fd the crerj^ne. Tart i. Cap. VII. IJ9 
 
 rcafon (fo often before alleaged; for that the 
 infant or yong Prince Vermudo, was a Httlc 
 ch ild,and not lufficient for gouerment and de- 
 fence of rhe coanirey. 
 
 Truth u is, that after ^this Don Sancho had 
 reigned, and his fonne ard heyre named Don 
 Hawifo the third, afier him, for ihe fpacc of 30. 
 yearesin all,then was this youth 
 ('that is now put back) called by the reahne to 
 thcfucccflionof thecrowne, and made kingc 
 by the name of king Verm:- do the fecond , who 
 left after him Do;/ yl/(?«/a, the j. and he agaync 
 his fonne DonVcrmudoxhtih'nA, who marying 
 hisfifter L*W4 Sancha (thatwashis heirejvnto 
 TJon Fernando, firft earle,& then king of Caftile, 
 (who was fecond fonne to Don Sancho Major 
 king of Nauarr as before hath b.nfaid) heioy- 
 nedbythes meanes the kingdomes of Leon 
 and Caftile together^ which were fepcrat be-Thecn^ 
 fore , and fo ended the line olDonVelayo , firft ^J^^^l^ 
 Chriftian king of Spline, aftei the entrance of Don Pc- 
 iheMoorcs, which had endured now three 
 hundreth yeares, and the blood of Nauarr en* 
 tredas you fee, and fo continued thcrin vntil 
 the entrance of thofeof ^///?r^ as before hath 
 bin faid, which was almoftj-. hundreth yeares 
 together. 
 
 And thus much I thought good, to note out of tho 
 oftheftonesofSpaine, for this firftdifcent of£."'» 
 the fpanifh kings, after the entrance of thewmg. 
 Moores,nether meane I to pafle much further, 
 both fur that it would be ouer long, as alfo for 
 
 M 5 ihaC 
 
1 6o A Conference touching fuccefton 
 that myne author, Mur^/^y, who IS the moftdi* 
 ligentthat hath vvriten the chronicles of rhac 
 natio^tndeth heere his ftoiy with king Vermuda 
 the third and laft of the Gotif h bloode, 
 Spanifh Notwithftanding if I would go on further, 
 examples ther would not Want diuers euident examples 
 <^nd^d?r- ^^^^ ^^^^^ purpofe.which Stephen Garabay 
 cent. an other choniclcr of Spaine/ioth roach in the 
 continu'uion ofjthis ftory,vvherof for exam- 
 ples fake only I wil name two or three among 
 the reft. 
 
 An, 1201 Andfirft about the yeare of Chrift iioi. ther 
 Was a mariage made by kinglohn of Inglad foe 
 Dona Blancha his neece, that is to fay , the daugh- 
 ter of his fifter Dame Elinor, and of DonAlonfo 
 the 9. of that name kingand Queene of (pame, 
 which Blancha was to mary the Prince of Frace, 
 namedL//y/, fonne & heyre to king Phillip fur- 
 Carib.li. named Augujttis , which Luys was after-ward 
 11.cap.12 ting of France by the name i^iluys the 8.&: was 
 father to Luys the 9.furnamed the faint. 
 
 This lady Blancha was neece as I hauc 
 faid,vnto kinglohn and to king Richard, the 
 firft of luie^lad, for that her mother lady Elenor, 
 was ther lifter, and daughter to king Henry the 
 fecondjand king lohn made this mariage, ther 
 by to make peace with the French, and was 
 LadyEle- Content to giue for hir dowrey ffor that he 
 ?nglirh ^^"'^ how to rccouer them agaynej al 
 
 vvomin. thofetownes&countres w hich the (aid king 
 
 Q. of Phillip had taken vppon the Inolifh, by this 
 Spayac. , . a rr . »• j 
 
 Kings cucl goucrment m Normandie and 
 
 Gafconie, 
 
to the a-oT^ne. Tart i. Cap. VII. 161 
 
 Gafconic, and more ouer, promifle was made, 
 thatifche Prince H^nry of Ipayne ^rhar was 
 the only brother to the laid Lady Blav h) fhould 
 dye Without iilue fas after he did) then this 
 lady fhould fuccede in the crownc of Spaine 
 alfo, but yet afterward the ftate of Spayne 
 would nor peiforme this, but rather adn/iitted 
 her vonger firt^i Do7Ja Berenguela, maried to the 
 Prince ofLeon, and exchided both Blanch and 
 her lonne the king ^.L?^yjofFrance,agayull the 
 euidcnt right of fucct ffion, and propinquity of Garib. I. 
 blood, & the oniyreafon they yealdtd hereof ^^^"^P J® 
 was not to admitt ftrangersto the crowne, as 
 ijarabayitdificib. 
 
 This hapned then, and I do note by the way, 
 that this Dona Berenzuda ftcond dauc^hter of 
 Qiieene Elefior the Inghfh woman^was married 
 (as hath bin faid) to the Prince ofLeon, and 
 had by him Dof;Fen/^;/rfi? the third of that name, 
 kingof Caftilia, (urnamcd alfo the fainr, fo as 
 the two daughters of an Inglifh Queene , had An Th- 
 two kings laintsforther fonnes at one tyme, glijhQ. 
 theeider ofFrance and the yonger of Spayne. iher ro 
 
 After thisagaine^ahout ihrecTcoreyeares the J-^j^jJ^^^^'"^ 
 Prince of Spayne named Don Alonfo^ furnamed once. 
 deUcerda, for that he was borne with a g^^^^ biech^of^ 
 griftle heare on his breft called Ccrda m fpanif h^ facceffio. 
 which Don Abnfo , was nephew to the king 
 Ternando ihc iaint, & maried VMth the daughter 
 offainiflL/'^^'kingofFrancCj named .alfo Blan^ 
 
 as her grand moiherwas, and had by her 
 two fonnes called Ahnfo 6c Emandodela cerda 
 
 as che 
 
i6i A Conference touching fuccepon 
 as the Prince their father was named , which 
 father of thers dying before the king,the grand 
 father left them commended to the reahne as 
 lawful heyres apparent to the crowne , yet for 
 that a certayne vncle of theis named Don Sancho 
 yonger brother to thcirfaihei wh ch Do Sancho 
 was furnamed afterward, elhrauofox his valor 
 and was agreat warricr, and moie like to ma- 
 nage wel the matters of watr the n theyrhe was 
 maddehcyre apparent of Spayne and they put 
 back in ther grand fathers tyme,and by his and 
 the realmes confent, (ther father as I haue faid 
 being dead) and this was done in a general par- 
 The Ccr- lament holden Segouia^xnihtyQzxt 1276. and 
 barkftom ^^fi^^r this , DoH Sancho was made king in the 
 thc^ yeare 1284. and the two Princes put into pri- 
 crovvn« butafterward at thc futc of there vnclc king 
 Phillip the third of France, they were let out 
 agayne and endued with certayne landes, and 
 fo they-remainevnto this day, and of thes do 
 come the Dukes of Mctf/w4C^/i, and al the reft 
 ofthehoafeofCerda, which are of much no- 
 bility in Spayne at this tyme, and king Phillip 
 that reyneth cometh of Don Sancho the yonger 
 brother. 
 
 Not long after this agayne, when DonVedra 
 furnamed thccruelkingof Caflile^ was driuen 
 our, and his baftard brother H^«7 the fecond 
 fct vp in his place,as Kfore haih bin metioned: 
 Carabay theDuk^of Lancafler lohn of Gant, hauing 
 In u6i ^^^'^^^ Dona Conjlantia the faid king peters 
 daughter &heyre, pretended by fuccellion the 
 
 faid 2 
 
to the cron?ne. Tart i. Cap. VIT. liJj 
 faidcrowneof Caftile, as indeed it appertay* 
 ned vntohim,buf yeriheftateof fpaine denied 
 it flatly, and defended it by atmes,and they pre* 
 uailed againrt lohn ofGant,as dyd alio the race Many tK 
 of Henry the baftard , againfl: his lawful bro- oriin^r 
 ther, & the race of Don Sancho the vncle^againft difccnt. 
 his lawful nephewes, as hath byn f hewed, and 
 that of DonaBerengueU againll her elder fifter, 
 al which races do reigne vnto this duy , & thes 
 three changes of th^trew lyue, happened with 
 int\aoages,andin thethird and principa-l dif- 
 centofthe Spanifh kings, when this matter 
 of fucc( (lion was moft alFurcdly and perfcdly 
 eftabhf hcd,and yet who wil deny but that the 
 kings ofSpayne who hold by the later titles at 
 this day, be true and lawful kings. 
 
 Well, one example will giueyou more out 
 of the kyngdom of Portugal,and (o wil I make 
 an ende with thes countreyes. This kingc 
 Henry the baftard laft named king ofSpayne, 
 had afonnethat fucceded him in the crowne 
 ofSpayne, named lohn the firft, whomaried 
 thedaughterand heyre named Y)ona Beatrix, of 
 ii\ngTcernando the firfl: of Portugal, but yet after 
 the death of the faid King Vernando, theftates of 
 Portugal would neuer agree to admit him for 
 ther king ^ for not fubieding themfelues by 
 that meanes to the Caftilians , and for that 
 caofe they rather tooke for ther king, a baftard J^e^gjftg 
 brother of the faid late -king Don Fernando, b^^^td 
 whos name was Don luan, a youth of lo.ycares ^^g^ 
 old who had bin maftcr of a railitare order in ?oitug9^. 
 
 Portugal 
 
1^4 Conference touching fuccepon 
 
 Portugal named deAuis. and fothey excluded 
 k^H^ j^. ^^^^ Bsatrtx Queene of C iftile that was their 
 lawful hcyrejand chofe this yong m in, and ma- 
 ried him afterwards to the lady PhiUippe 
 daughter of lohn ofGant Duke of Lancalter, 
 by his firil Wife blanch, Duchelle and hcyre of 
 Lacafter,in\vhofe right the kings of Portugal 
 and therdifcendents do pretend vnto this day a 
 ccrrayne intereft to the honfe of Lancafter, 
 which I leaue to our tcporal lawyer, to difculTe 
 but heereby we fee v\hat an ordinary matter 
 ir hath bin in Spayne and Portugal, to alter 
 the lync of next fuceeffion, vppon any reafona- 
 bleconfideration, which they imagined to be 
 for ther weal publique , and the like we (hal 
 finde in France & Ingland , which euen now I 
 wilbegin to treat of. 
 
 DIVERS OTHER Ex- 
 amples OVT OF THE STATES 
 
 OF FRANCE AND INGLAND, FOR 
 proofe that the next in blood are fometymes 
 put backefromfuccefsionyand hoi^ God 
 had apfYotiedthefame^itb 
 good fuccejfe. 
 
 Cap. Vlir. 
 
 fta^^of pi ^ concerning the ftate of France, I hauc 
 fiance Jl \ noted before, that albeit fince the entracc 
 oftherfitftking Pharamond, with his Frankes, 
 out of Germanic^ which was about the veare 
 
 ofChrift 
 
tothecroT^ne. Fart Cap. VIII. i6s 
 ofChrift 419. they haueneucrhadany ftiagcc 
 cometo were there crowne , which they attri- 
 bute torhe benefit of there law Sahkc,ihat for 
 biddeth W'Omen to reigne,yet among themfel- 
 iies haue they changed twyfe there whole race 
 and Unage of kings, once in the entrance of 
 king Pepin, that put out the lyne of Phara- 
 mond, about the yeare yji.and agayne in the An. 7^1* 
 promotion of kinge Hpgo Capetm , that put our 
 thelyneofPepin,in theyeare 5S8. fo as they-^^^*^ 
 haue had three difcents and races of kings, as 
 Welas the fpaniards, the firft of Pharamond, 
 the 2. of Pepin, and the 3. of Capetus , which 
 indurcthvntothisprcfent , if it be not ahered 
 now by the excluiion that diners pretend to 
 makeof thekingof Nauarr, and other Princes 
 of the blood royal of the howfe of Burbon. 
 
 Wherfore as I did before in the fpaniards, Co 
 Iwilheereletpadethe firft ranke of al of the 
 French kings, for that fome men may fayper- 
 haps, that the common wealth and law of^f^,^!^^^ 
 fuccefljon,was not fo wel fetled in thofe daycs, "nckc of 
 as it hath bin afterward , in tymc of kinge Pe- ^^^^^ 
 pin Charles the great and ther difcendantcs, 
 asalfofor thatit were in very deede oner te- 
 dious to examine and pervfe al three rankes of 
 kings in France, as you wil fay when you fhal 
 fee whatftorelhaueroalleage, ontof the fe- 
 condranckonly , which began with the ex- 
 clufion and depofition of their lawful King 
 Childerikc the third , and eledion of king 
 Pepin^as before you haue heard at large de- 
 clared 
 
1 6i A Conference touching fuccefion 
 
 dared in the third chapter of this difcourfc, 5r 
 it fhal not be need ful to repeate the fame 
 agayne in this place. 
 
 Pepin then furnamed, lebrefe^ or the iitlc^ 
 icingFc- forhisfmaleftature (though he were a gyant 
 pin by in deedsj being made king of France, bv mere 
 An. 7^1. ^Ic^tion* in the yeareof Chrift 75 1. after 22. 
 kings that had reigned of the firftlvne ofPha- 
 ramond for the fpaceof more then three hun- 
 dreth yeares, and being fo famous and worthy 
 a king as alihe world knoweth, reigned 18. 
 yeares, & then left his ftates and kingdomes by 
 ilicccflion vnto his eldeft Tonne Charles furna- 
 med afterward the great, for his famous and 
 heroical zOcs. And albeit the whole kingdome 
 of France appcrtayned vnto him alone, by the 
 K. Char- lawof fucceffion, as hath bin faid , his father 
 rlcft^on t)eing king and he his eldc ft Tonne : yet would 
 therealme of France fhevv ther authority in 
 Girard du his admifllon, which Girard ferterh downe in 
 HaUian 1. thes vvotds, Eflant Pepin decede^ les Trancois ejleu^' 
 3an.76«. ^^^^ ^oiSyCharles & Carlomon , fafilsy aU charge^ 
 qiiils partageroient entre eux, egalementy leroyamne. 
 Which iSj king Pipin being deade, the french 
 men chofe for ther kings his two fonnes, 
 Charles and Carlomon, with condition , that 
 they fhould part equally betwene them , the 
 realme. Wherin is to be norcd , not only the 
 clcftion ofthe common wealth, befides fuc- 
 ceffion, butalfb the heauie condition laid vp- 
 pon the heyie to part halfe of hiskingdome 
 vvith his yongei brother, and the very fame 
 
 vvoords 
 
to the cro'Tt^ne. Part r. Cap. VHI. 1^7 
 
 woords hath Eglnardan ancient French writer, ^fjJIj^lf. 
 in the life oft bis Charles the great, to why that i.cap.j. 
 the Trench ft ate in apubltque a(femhly^ did chofetT^o 
 Princes to k' their kings, '^tth exprtlji condition to de^ 
 uidc ihe realme e^juully, as Francis Belforeji citeth his 
 Wordes, which two French authors (I oieane 
 eirardavABelforeftJl fhal v(e principally here- 
 after in the rell of my citations. 
 After three yeares^that thefe two brethere had 
 reigned together, king Cailomon the y^^S^'^ ^^^,^^^,^1^ 
 died, and left many Conucs, the elder wherof ^."fc^fcii* 
 was named Adalgife, but Belforeft fayeth , that betcre^ 
 the Lords ecclefiajhcal & temporal of Trance fj^ore phlvv?^ 
 fidelttie and obedience to Charles, *^ithout any refped 
 or regard at al of the children ofCarlomon^ho yet by 
 right offucceponjhouldhaue bin preferred, & Pau- 
 lus Emilitis a latine wiiterjfauh , proceres regni ad p^ui. 
 Carolumvltrovenientesjegem eum totius Gallia falu- miii Wft 
 /4r«Kf; that is^thenobHuy of therealme com-^'^^' 
 ming of iher ownc accord ,vnto charleslaluted 
 him king of al Fraace,wherby is f hewed, thac 
 this exclufion of the children of Cailomon, 
 Was not by force or tiranny, but by free delibe- 
 ration of the realme. 
 
 After Charles the gteat^reigned by fiicceffio ^^"^ 
 J%is only fonue,Lftyi the firft, lurnamed de f'^^- tonLuc, 
 ;/*iir^ of his curtefye,vvhoentrit1g toreigne in An 814. 
 the yeare 817. with great applaufe of al men, 
 forthe excedingc grateful memory of his fa- 
 ther^vvas yet afterward at the pourfuite princi- 
 pally of his owoe three fonnes, by his firrt wife, Girard.1.5 
 /"which were Lothair^pepin, and Lays) depofed, 
 
 N firftin 
 
1 68 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 fitftinacouncciac Lions, and then agayne at 
 Compeigne, and put inco a monaftery, though 
 Aii.S4o. afterward he came to reigne agaync, and his 
 fourth fonne by his fecod wife, (which fonnc 
 was named cffarles le chauue, for that he was 
 bald) fuca ded him , in the ftates of France, 
 chough after many battels agiinfl: his eldeft 
 brother LothairCy to whom by fucceffion the 
 fameappertayned. 
 
 After Charles the balde, fucceded Luys the 
 fecond, furnamcd le begue^ for his ftuitcring, 
 W ho was not eldcft, bur third fonne , vnto his 
 * ^ * father, for rhelecond dyed before his father, 
 & theeldellvvaspucby hisfucceffion^ for his 
 eucl demeanure,this huys alfo was hke to haue 
 bin dcpriued by the ftates at his firll entracc, for 
 
 fa^chron^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"^'^^'^*^^ father Char- 
 
 que, pag. les the bald, but that he calling a folcmnepar- 
 Girardl.i ^^^n^nt at Compeigne,as Girard faith, he made 
 An.879. the people, cleargie, and nobilitie many faire 
 Two ba- pi'omifes, to haue their good vvilles. lihxslujs 
 ftards pre the ftutccfihg, Itfc tw o baftard fonnes,by a c6- 
 fcried. cubine,vvho were called Luys and CarlomOjas 
 al^bheleft a litle infant, newly borne of his 
 Jawful wife, i4/fe'/rr«rfe daughter to king Alfred 
 of Ingland, which infant was king of France 
 afterward, by the name of Charles ihe limple, 
 albeit not immediatly after rhedeaih of his fa* 
 ther, for that the nr blcs of Frace faid, that rhey 
 had need of a man to be king, &:nota childe, 
 as Girard reporteth , & theifore the whole 
 ftate of Fiance, chofc for their kinges the two 
 
 forefaid 
 
tothecYO^ne. Part i. Cap. VI IT* 
 
 foreGii^ baftards, Lttys the third, and Carlomon 
 ihefirftbfthitname, ioyntly an^ they vverc 
 crowned moftfolcmnly Sc deiiidedihe whole 
 realmebetwenethem , in theyeare of Chrift An ssn 
 88 1 . and Queen Adeltrudevv'ah hcrchilde true 
 hey re of France^fled inro Ingland to her father, 
 and ther brought him vp for diuers yeares , in 
 which tyme f he Hiw foure or fiuc kinges reignc 
 in his place in France, one after the other, foe 
 bieflv thus it palled. 
 
 ^ Ofthc^stvvo baftard kings the elder named 
 I//yi- reigned but foure yeares, tS: died without 
 ilfue , the fecond that is Carlomon liued but 
 one yeare after him, and left a fbnne called alfo 
 LfAys, which fucceded in the kingdome by the • 
 name of Luys the fife, ^nd furnamed Fatneant ^"ys ^i- 
 for hisidleand llouth ful hfc. For which as alfo ITfur^c 
 for his vitious behaueour,and in parriculer for ao.886. 
 taking but and maryinga None of the Abbey 
 of S.Batidour at Chclls, by Parris , he was depri- 
 ned and madea monkein the Abbey of S.Dc-- 
 wyy,vvher he died, and in his place was choferi 
 king of France, and crowned with great fo- 
 lemnitie , Charles the 4. Emperor of Rome fur- charlcs 
 narfted legrosfoi that he was f^t and corpulct, Gros. 
 he was nt^phew to Charles the bald-, before Fia"nce?^ 
 mentioned,and theiforc the French (lories fay, 
 thathecamc tothecrownec)f France partly by Girard.li. 
 fucce(Iion,andpartly by election, but for fuc- 5.An.88t 
 ccflion, we fee that it was nothing worth , foe 
 fo muche as Charles the fimple the right hey re, 
 wasaliucin Ingland, whom ic fcmeth that 
 N z the 
 
170 A Conference touching fuccefm 
 the French men had quite forgotten, feing that 
 now they had not only excluded him three ty- 
 xnesalicdy, asyouhaue hard, but afterwards 
 alfoagaine,when this ^r(?j(/^C&4r&^ was for his 
 cuel gouermet, by them depofed and dept iucd, 
 notonly of thekmgdome of France but alfo 
 ofhi^ Empire • which he had before he was 
 kmge^& vvas brought into fuch mifcrablepe* 
 iiurie,as diuers write,that he perif hed for v\ ar, 
 Atihistyraelfayethe ftates of France would 
 not yet admitt Charles the fimple fthoughhi- 
 ther-to his fimplicity did notappearc, but he 
 feemed a goodly Prince) bi t rather they chofc 
 odo a for king one Odo Earlcof Paris and Duke of 
 •fur Du- ^H^^^^^^'^ caufed him to be crowned, 
 kcof * But yet after a few yeares, being weary of 
 vvhonu/ mans gouerment, and nioued alfo fo me 
 H^oCa- what with compafljon towards the youth that 
 p«w. vvas in Ingland, they refolued to depofe Odo, 
 and fo they did whiles he was abfent in 
 Gafcony, ^nd called Charles the fimple out of 
 Inglandjto Paris,and reftored him to the king* 
 dome of France, leauing only to Odo for re- 
 compence,thc ftatc of Aquitaine, with title of 
 aDukerwherwithinfine, he contented him- 
 felfejeing that he could get no more. But yet 
 his pofterity by veftucof this election , preten- 
 ded euer after a title to the crownc of France, 
 and neuer left it of, vntil at length by Hugo Ca- 
 pctus'they gat it, for Hugh defended of this 
 king and Duke Odo. 
 
 This king Charles ihenfurnamed the fini* 
 
 pie, an 
 
tothecri^ne. Tart i. Cap. VIII. 171 
 pie, aplnglilh vvomans fonne, as youhauc 
 hard, being thus admitted to the crowne of 
 Fiance, he toke to wife an Inglifh woman, 
 named Elgtna or 0^m,daugh ter of king Edward 
 the elder, by Vi horn he had a fonne named Le- 
 wys,and himfelfe being a limple man, as hath 
 bin (aide,vvas allured to go to the caftle,of pe- 
 ronne in Picardie^v vher he was made prifoner, 
 and forced torefigne his kingdomevnto R^^f^Kfi!gof 
 kingof Burgundyc , and foone ^fter he dyed France, 
 through mifery in the fame caftle, and his^"-W* 
 QueeneOgin fled into Ingland with her htle 
 fonne Luys vnio her vnclekinge Adeljian^ as 
 Queene Adeltrude had done before with her 
 fonne vnto king Alfred.znd one of the chiefc in 
 thisaftion for putting downe of the limple, 
 was Counte Hugh lurnamed the great , Earic 
 of Paris,father vnto Hugo Capetos which after 
 vvasking. 
 
 But this new king Rafe,liued burthreeyea- 
 res after,and then the ftatesof France confide- 
 ling the right title of Luys the lawful child of 
 king Charles the (imple, which Luys was co- 
 monly called now in France by the name of 
 //'0«fym^r,that is bc-yond the Tea, for that he 
 had bin brought vp in Ingland : the faid ftates 
 being alfo greatly and continually follicited 
 heeruntoby the Embalfadors of king Adeljlan 
 ofIngknd,and by William Duke of Norman- j^^^ 
 die/ur named long fpeer, great grand father to 
 William the conqueror, wo by the king of 
 Ingland vVas gayned alfo to be of the yong 
 N } Princes 
 
171 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 piincespart: forthcfeconfiderations (I fay)thcy 
 iciolqcdi to cal him into France out of Ingland, 
 as his fatbri had bin before him, and to admitc 
 and crowne him king , and (o ihey did, and he 
 reigned ly.yearesand was agoodPiince, & 
 diedpeaceabliein his bedd thcyeareofChrift, 
 94J' 
 
 This king Luys d Outremer left two fonnes 
 behind him, the eldeftvvas called hotham the 
 firft^whpfucceded him in the crowne of Frace, 
 and the (econd vvas named Charles whom 
 he made Duke of Loray nc* Lothme dyinj^ left 
 one only fonne named I^y/ as his grand father 
 was who was king of France^ by the name of 
 Luysthe and dying without iffue after two 
 yeares th;ithehadreygned, tlie crowne was 
 to haue gone by lyncal fucceflion vnto his 
 vncleG&^rkxthedukeofLorayne, fecod Tonne 
 to h\x)S d Outremer y2iS iseuident, but the dates 
 of France did pur him by it. for miflike they had 
 of his perfon, ^nd did chofe Hugo Capctsts Earle 
 of Pari^, and fo ended the fecond lyne of Pepin 
 and of Charles the gre^t, and entred the race 
 HughCa- of Hugo Crf/?i?m5,vvhich endureth vntil this day, 
 and the French (lories do fay, that this furname 
 Snatch C4/>^r,vvas giucn to him vvheu hc was a boy 
 ^appei>8«forthathevvas wont to fnatch away his fel- 
 lovvescappes from their heades, vvherof he 
 vvas termed Snatch cappe, which (omedo in- 
 tcrprete to be an abodement that he f hould 
 fnatch alfb a crowne from the true owners 
 head in tyme, as afterward we fee it fel out, - 
 
 though 
 
tQthccrdl^ne. Van i. Cap. VIII. 175 
 
 thoughyet hchad it bycledion and approba* 
 tion of the common wcalt h as I haue faid* 
 
 And intltisrefpedb althcfrench chroniclers 
 who oihervvilc are mod eameft defenders of 
 ihcrlawof (ucceflion, do iuftifie t is title of 
 Hugo Capetus i^gainft Charles , for which 
 caufe Frances Ef/farf3 doth alleadge the faying 
 of WiHum Nangis, an ancient and dihgenc ^^^'^•^i* 
 chronicler of the Abby of S.Denjs in France, An!9sV. 
 vvhodefcndeth kingCrfmu^ in thefe words. 
 VVe fmy notgraunt in any cafe that Hugh Capet may Defence 
 be eftemed an inuador or v fur per of the croT^ne 0/ c^pctus 
 Trance yfemg thcLordes Prelates princes ^^fdgouernors title. 
 oftherealmedid calhimto this dignitie, and chofe 
 btm for their htfig and Soueraine Lord^ thus much 
 Nangis:vppon which wordes BW/(?rf^ faieth as 
 followethjihaue layd before you the wordes 
 and cenfure of this good rehgious man for 
 that they feeme to me ro touch the quick , for 
 in very truth we cannot by any oihet meanes 
 defend the title of Hugh Capet from Vfurpation 
 and fellonie, then to iuftifie his comtning to 
 the crpv\ ne by the confent and wil of the com- 
 mon wealth, and in this I may wel excufe mc 
 from inconftancie and contradidtion to my 
 fclfe,that haue fo earneftly defended fuccefllon 
 before, for hethatwilconfider how and vvith^^ 
 vvhitcondirions I defended that , fhal caiely 
 fee alfo that I am not heere contrary to the 
 famejhus much Belforeft. 
 
 IThinke it not a milFe alforo put downc 
 hecr tome p^rc of (he oration orfpeech which 
 
 N 4 chc 
 
174 ^ Conference touching fuccepon 
 baiTa^of ^'^^ Embaflador that was fent at that tymc, 
 the *i^arcs frcm the ftatc of France vnto Charles of Lorai- 
 vnr^ck^'i ^^^3^^^^^ ^^^^^ cledion of Hugh Capet, and Char- 
 icl ot JLo- Ics exclulion , didvfe vnto him in ther names, 
 lAijic. which fpcch Gir^r^tdoth recount in thcfe wor- 
 
 des. 
 
 Girard 1 E^^^X knowcth (Lord Charles} that 
 #.an.5)»8. the fucceffion of the crowne and real me of 
 ^, France according to the ordinary Lawcs and 
 
 rights of the fame, belongeth vnto you, and 
 ,> not vnto Hugh Capet now our king, but yet the 
 5,very fame lawcs which do giue vnto you this 
 9, right offaQpeflion^do Judge you alfo vnworthy 
 ,,ofthe fame, for that you haue not endeuored 
 3, hitherto to frame your hfe and manners accor- 
 5, ding CO the prefcript of thofe lawes, nor accor- 
 ,,dingtothcvfe&: cuftomeof yourcoumcreyof 
 „Francc,but rather haue allyed yt)iir fclfe with 
 
 the German nation, oui old cnimics, and hauc 
 5, acquamted your (elfe with their vileaud bafc 
 „ manners.Whcrfoiefeingyou haueforl'aken & 
 
 abandoned the ancient vertue fweernesand 
 
 aniitieofthefiench, wehauealfo abandoned 
 5, and left you , and haue chofen Hugh Capet for 
 
 our king, and haue put you back , and this 
 5, without any fcrupleor preiudice of our con- 
 
 fciences at al, eftecming it far better and more 
 „ iuft to line vndcr Hugh Capet the prefent po- 
 jy n^lToroftbeciownejWith eaioying the ancient 
 3» vfeof our laweSjCuftomes, priuilegcs and liber- 
 99 tiesjthen vnder yon the inheritor by neernes of 
 M bloode, in oppreflion, ftrange cuftomes, and 
 
 cruciity* 
 
tg the CYtiT^ne. Tart i . Cap* VIII. 17 j 
 crutltY Forcuen as thofe which are to make a^^^^^*!^ 
 voyage in a 1 iiip vppon a dangerous lea, do not fon, 
 fo much Tcfi eft^vv hether the pilot which is to ,> 
 guyd the fterne,be owner of the f hip or no,buc„ 
 rather whether he be fki!fa!,vahanc^ and hke,, 
 to bring thetn in fafety to ther wayes end, or to „ 
 drowne them among the w^aues : euen fo our 
 principal care is,tnat we haue a good Prince to 
 leade and guyd vs happcly in this way of ciuil,> 
 and politique life, which is the end why^, 
 princes were appoinred,for that rhis man is St- 
 icr to be our king. ^, 
 
 This mefTagedid the dates of France fend to 
 Charles of Loravne in defence of iheir doins^s* 
 and with this he loft his fuccefflon for euer^and 
 afterwards his life alfo in prifon^and the French 
 men thouohrthemfelues fecurc in confciencc 
 as you lee^for dfting the f3me,which God hath 
 alfofince feemed toconfirme,with thefuccef- 
 fion and happy fuccelle of fo many noble and 
 moftchriftian kings as haue iffucd out of this 
 line of Hugo Capetas vnto this day. 
 
 And this fpoken now of the fecond lyne 
 of France, I take to be fufficient for proofcout'of *^ 
 of our purpofe, without going any ^^^^1^^^ j';^^^^^ 
 for that if we do but number thefe kings al- France, 
 redy named that haue reigned in this fecond 
 race, from king Pepin downwards vnto Hugh 
 Capctt (vvhich are about ly.or iS.kingsin 23S. 
 yeares)vve fhal finde that not fome few, but 
 the mort part of them did both enter and enioy 
 ther crownes and dignities contrary to the law 
 
 N J oflync 
 
ij6 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 of lyneal difcenr, and of next fiicceflion by 
 blood. Whcrof alfb thcr would not want diuers 
 examples in ^he third and laft difcent, fince 
 Hugo Capettts tyme,if wc would pafle furchcrto 
 examine the ftories rhcr-of. For nor to go fur- 
 ther do Ane then to the very next difcent after 
 Girard li. Hugh which was king Robert his fonne , Gi- 
 rWaffirmeih in hisftory, thacof his twofon^ 
 nes which he had named Robert and Henry, 
 Robert the elder was put back, and his yonger 
 brother Henry made kmg of France, & reyned 
 l^p^^^^T^many yeares by the name of Henry the firft,& 
 red bcfo- this he fayeth happened partly for that Robert 
 del^bro- ^^^^ ^ (impleman in refpeft of Henry , and 
 ther. partly alfo for that Henry was greatly fauored 
 and afllfted in this pretence.by Duke Robert of 
 William Normandy father to our William the conque- 
 ror how tor, and in recompence hereof, fhi<; king Henry 
 tob^* afterward aflifted the faid Willia baftard fonnc 
 duke of to Robert for the attayningof the Dukdomq 
 Korman. of Normandie,after the death of the faid Duke 
 Robert his father, notwithftanding that Duke 
 Girard I. K.'^t)^*'^ had two Uw ful brothers a liue at that 
 6. Anno tyme^whofe nameswere M*/7;^er Arch bi( hop of 
 Wij.^ Roan, and William Eatk o( Argues , in Nor- 
 mandie, who pretended by fucceflfion to be 
 preferred, But the ftates of Normandie at the 
 reqiieftof DukeRoi^^rf, when he went to the 
 holy land (m which iornev he died) asalfofor 
 auoydingofdilleniion and warresxhat other 
 wife might iiifue,were content to exclude the 
 vncles and admitt the badard fonne^ who was 
 
 alfo 
 
tothecro^ne. Van i. Cap. VIIL 177 
 
 alfoaffi^dby thcforce&of the king of France 
 as hath bin (aid, fo as no fcriiple it fcemed ihcv 
 was in thofe dayes,erher lopiefer king Heniy 
 to the crownc of France befpr his elder bro- 
 ther^or Duke WiUiam rhc baftard fonne to the 
 Duchie of Normandy before his lawful vnck$ 
 vppon fuch dowconfideraiions, as thofe ftates 
 may be prefumed to haoe had for their doings. 
 
 I read alfo, that fome yeares after, to wit in ^^^j^^^^ 
 theyeare 1 1 10. when PhiHip the firft of France for xhfi 
 fonneandheyre to this king Heniy of ^hofc^^^^^^^^^^^ 
 folemne coronation you haue hard before in 
 the feiieth chapter, was decenfed, the people of 
 France were fo offended with his ^iJ^l hfeand^^i^^^^ 
 gouerment, as diners were of opinion to dif- lib. 7. 
 inherite his fonne Lewis thefixt, furnamed /^'^"•"^o. 
 Grw, for his fake , and fowas he like ^^hane^^j^^^ j 
 bin indeede, as may appeare by the chronicle c.i.&:.l.* 
 ofFrancc^iffomeof hispartie had not cauftd 
 him to be crowned in haft,andout of order^iu, 
 Orleans, forpreuenting ihe mat:er. 
 
 The like doth Phillip Comin«us in hisi ftorycSmaus 
 ofkingLuys the eleuenth declare, how ^J^^^|a,^^*^iJJ 
 theftate of France had once determyned , tOvita Lu- 
 haue difinherited his lonne Charles, named '^o^^^"* 
 after the eight, and to put him back from his 
 fuccedJon for their hatred to his father, if the 
 faid father had not died while the other was 
 very yong^as I noted before alfo, that it happe- 
 ned inking Henry the third of Ingland , who 
 was once condemned by the Barons to be 
 difinheiited , fot the fault of king luhn his 
 
 father, 
 
xyS A Conference touching fuccepon 
 fatherland Lewjrs the princi) of France chofen | 
 in hisplacc,but that the death of king lohn 
 did alter that courfc intended by the Inglifh 
 nobilifie, fo as this matter is nether new nor 
 vnacuftomed in af foraine countryes, and now 
 wil I patTe alfoa little to our Inglifh ftories, 
 to fee whether the Lke may be found in them 
 or no. 
 
 ESMtnples And firft of al that the realmc of Inglad haih 
 •fthc^ had as 2reatvarietie,chanecs,anddiueifitie,ia 
 logjax^* the races ot their kuiges , asany one realme m 
 the wotldjitfemetheuident, forthatfiiftofal, 
 afw the Britaines, it had Romans for their go* 
 uernours for many yeares, and then of then) & 
 iheir roman blood they had kings agayne of 
 therowne, as arpereth by that valiant king 
 
 iac« of ptudcntly the (<uons,for a tyme, after this they 
 ^ngUih had kings of the faxoniX: Inglifh blood , and 
 after them of the Danes, and then of the Nor- 
 mancs,& after them ^^gayneofth^Fiech',&:laft 
 ofal, ii fcmeth to haue returned to the Bjitains 
 agayne.in kingHenry the 7. for that his father 
 came of that rvice,and now you know ther be 
 pretendois of diucrs nations, I meaneboth of 
 ScowfhySpanifh^zi^d Italian blood/o that Inglad 
 is like to participate with al their ney boars 
 round about t hem, & I for my part dofeele my 
 fclfe much of the French opinion before allea- 
 ged,ihat fo the f hip be wel 6c happely guyded, 
 lefteemeit not much iniportant of what race 
 or natio the pilotc be^but now^o our purpofe. 
 
 1 meane 
 
to the CYff^nt. Van i. Cap. VIII. 1 79 
 I meaneto palle ouer the firft and ancient 
 rancksofkings^asvvel of th^Britifh Sc Roma, 
 as alfoofihe Saxontaccs,wt)ti\ king Egbert the Them- 
 firft of tiiis nainCjking of the weft Saxons^ and ^^i^nd 
 almoft of al thereftof Ingland bifides, who and in- 
 therforc is faid to be properly the firft monarch 
 of the Saxon blood,and he th;it firft of al , com- 
 maunded that rcahiie to be called Ingland, 
 which euer fince hath bin obferued. 
 
 This man Egbert being a yong gentleman f^'^lrt 
 of a noble houfe in the weft parrs of Ingland, ihc firft 
 was had in ielofie by his king Bntricm r^vho^^JJ^^ 
 was the 16. Kinge from Cerdicius , firft 
 king of the weft Saxons , as he was alfo 
 the laft cf his blood. And for that he fuf- 
 peded, that this Eebert,for his gre.^t prowefle^ 
 might come in tyme to be chofen king, he 
 banifhed him into France 5 vvher he lined 
 diners yeares, and was a captayne vnder the 
 famous king Pepin that was father toChar* 
 les the great, and hearing afccrvVards that 
 king Bntr'tcus was dead, he returned into In* 
 gland yvher Polidor fayeth, omnium confenfu fowdot 
 rex creatur: that he was created or chofen kuirg, ^lift aug. 
 by confcnt and voyceof al men, though ytt^^^^ 
 he were not next by propinquity of blood 
 royal, as ismofteuidenc , and yet he proued 
 the moft excellent king that cuer the faxons 
 had before or perhapps after , and his eleftioa 
 happened in the yearc of ChriftS. hundreth ^^^^^^ 
 and two , when Kin^ Pepia the firft of 
 that race, reigned (as hath l?in lLiid)in fiance^ 
 
 fo as 
 
1 So A Conference touching fuccefton 
 
 fo as this monarchy of Egbert and that of Pe** 
 King?e- pin('wherofwehaue allcagcd fo many exam- 
 France, pics in the former chapter, began as it were 
 together^and both of them (I meane both Pe- 
 pin and Egbert) came to their crownes by ele- 
 ction of rhe people as heere you fee. 
 kmg Add This kmg Egbert or Egbrich as others do 
 vvuife. write him,lcft a lawful fonne behind him na- 
 An.8z9. j^^j ilthel^olfeox Adelmlfe, orEdolph, (for al is 
 onej who fncceded him in.thekingdome, and 
 was as worthy a man as his father, and this A- 
 (i^/wtt/f^agaynejhad foure lawfnHonnes, who 
 al in iheir turnes fucceded by iuft and lawful 
 order in the ci ovvne, to wit Ethtlbal^, Ethelbert^ 
 Ethclred, and i4//r^rf,for that none of the former 
 three had any children , and al the later three 
 were mod excellent princcs,>erpecially Alfred or 
 yjn^ i!/^^rei/, the laft of al foure, whofeadsare vvon- 
 frtd'872, dcrful , and who among other his reuoumed 
 geftes^draue Ko/fo that famous captaine of the 
 danes from the borders of Ingland,with alhis 
 company mro France, wherhegat the coun- 
 trey or prouince named then Neuflria.&c now 
 Nmw/i;;rfiC,and was thefiift Duke of thatpjro- 
 uinceand nation, and fromwhom our William 
 Conqueror came afterwards in the fixth diC 
 cer:t.This manerettcd alio the vniuerfitie of 
 Oxford^ being very learned h:m(clfc, buyldcd 
 diuersgoodiv monafterics and churches, and 
 King dying Icfr as famous a fonnebehyndc him ^ as 
 ^UcT^.^^ himielf, which was Edward the firftfurnamed 
 An.jioo. the fenior or elder. 
 
 This 
 
lothecroT^ne. Fjrt i. Cat. VIM. iSi 
 
 This king EdvVard dying left two fonncs, 
 lawfully begotten of his Wife, Edgina. the one 
 named Prince Edmund^ and the other tldred , & 
 a third illegitimate whofe name ^v^is Adcljlan^ 
 whom he had by a concubine. Bin yet for th.it 
 this man was eftcmed to be of more valor j^^^^^l^ 
 then the oiher,he was preferred to thecrowne, HomU 
 before the two other Prnices legiitimate , foi pjc^^^ld. 
 foteftifieihPolidorin thcswoidts, Adelf. anus ex An.924- 
 concubma EdT^ardt films , rex a popido confaL tatur 
 atque adkinsftonum opidum more matorum ab Athel- ^^j*^ $• 
 mo Cautuarteriji Archteptjcopo coronatur^ vvhuh is^ 
 i!/fe/y?#iwthcfonncofking Edwaid by aconcu- 
 bine, was made king by the people, and was 
 crowned according to the old cultome, by 
 i4r/7e/;we Archbilhopbf Caccrbury atthetowne 
 ofkingflx>n.Thns far polidor,and Stowaddeth 
 further thes wotds : Hts coronationit^a^ celebrated 
 in the market place ^ vppon a ftage, erected on high stovr 
 that the king might better be [eene of the multitude^ An. Ji^ 
 heli^of a Prince of n^orthy mcmorte^ valiant and '^ife^ 
 in al hu ails. & brought this land into one perfect mo- 
 narchie.for he expelled vtterly the danes, and quieted 
 theTi^elchme.Thus much Stow,ofthe f^ccelleof 
 chufing this king baftard to teigne. To who(e 
 ad:s iright be added that he conc]uered Scot- 
 land and brought Conftantine their king to do 
 him homage, andreftorcd Luysd Outremer, his 
 fillers fonne to the kingdome of France, as be- 
 fore hath bin fignified. 
 
 This man dying without ifluc, his lawful Ed» 
 brother Ed^md, put back before, was admitted "^^"'^ 
 
 to the 
 
 I. 
 
 An. 949. 
 
J 8 1 A Conference touching fuccepm 
 to the crowne^who being of excellent expcda- 
 tion, died after 6. ycares, and left two lawful 
 T}icvnc!cfonnes,but yet for that they WTrc yonge, they 
 Vc{oic^ were both put back by the realn^c, and their 
 the nc^ vncle Eldredw^s preferred before them, fo faith 
 PoHdor, Genuit Edmondus ex Egilda rxore Eduimm 
 roUd.l. 6. (jr Edgar unty qtu cum etatepuerl ejfent pojl Eldrcdum 
 de'tnde regnarunt. King Edmond begat of his 
 wife Egtlda two fonnes named Et/Tt^m and Edgar^ 
 who for that thjey W'cre but children in y eares, 
 were put back, and reigned afterward after 
 ther vncle Eldred. The like faith Stow and yeal- 
 Stowin dcth the fame reafon in thcs wordes. Eldred 
 iicles*'^^' /^^^^^^^ Edmod hts brother for that his fowics Edji itiy 
 and Edgar , Ti?ere thought to yong to take jo great a 
 charge vppon them. 
 
 This Eldred though he en t red as you Tee 
 againll the right of the ncphewes^ yet faith Po- 
 lidor and Stow,rhat he had al mens good will, 
 and Was crowned as his brother had bin , at 
 kingfton, by O^c? Archbifhop of Canterbury, 
 and reigned 9. yearcs with great good wil and 
 praifeofal men. He dyed at laft without ifTue, 
 and fo his elder nephew Edwin was admitted 
 to the crowne, butyer after foure yeares he 
 was depofcd agayne, for his leude andvitious 
 life, and his yonger brother frf^^r admitted in 
 hisplacein the yeareofChrift 5159. 
 Hdgar a This king Edgar that entred by depofition of 
 famous his brother, was one of the rareft princes, that 
 the world had in his tyme, both for peace and 
 war, iuftice, pietye^and valor. Stow^ fayeth he 
 
 kept 
 
fothecrtnme. Van t. Cap. VIIL i8j 
 kept a nau ie df three thoufand and 6.hundreih 
 fhippeSjdiftribiited in diucrs partes for defence 
 oftherealmc. Alfo that he buyltand reftored 
 47* monafteriesathisownechargeis, and did 
 other ipany fuch a€ts:he was father to king 
 Edward the martir, ^ grand father to king 
 £dward theconfc(Ibr,though by twodiifrerent 
 wiues, for by hii firft wife named E^i//r^rf he 
 had Edward after martirized, and by his fecod Edvfard 
 vvifei4/frerfhchad "Etheldred father to Edvvard ^^J^^i^i- 
 ihe confe(Ibr5& to the end that Etheldred myght * 
 raigne^his mother il/fr^^cau fed King Edward 
 the fonne of Egilfred to be flayne after king 
 Erf^^r her hiifband was dead. k Ethel 
 
 After this fo fhameful murther of king dj^d^^^i, 
 tedward,many good men of the realme , were 
 tofopinion^not to admit the fucceffion ofEthcU 
 ired his half brother, both in refpe^l of the 
 niiirther^ of king Edward his elder brother,c6* 
 mitted for his fake,as alfo for that hefemed a 
 man not fit to gouelrne, and of this opinion 
 among others,vvas the holy man Dunoon arch- y olid.Ly. 
 bif hop of Canterbury, as Polidor fayeth, who ^ 
 at length in flat wbrds denyed to confecrate 
 him,but feing the mod part bf the realme, bent 
 on Etheldreds hde y he foretbuld thetti, that it 
 w^ould repent them after , and that in this mSU 
 life the realme fhould be dcftroyed as in deedc 
 it was, andhcrannaway to Normandy, and 
 left Sweno and his danc^ inpofleffion of the 
 : realme, though afterward Sweno being dead^ 
 he returned agayne and dyed in London. 
 
 O Thif 
 
184 ^ Conjerc^^ 
 
 This Etheldrcd had iwo wfucs , the fiift Ethc!^ 
 ^^w^anlnghfh wcma.by whom he had prince 
 ^^^^"^^^^ Edmund furnamed Ironfide , for his great 
 * ftrengih and valor, who fucccded his father in 
 thecrownecflngland^forayeare, and at his 
 death left two fonnes which after fhalbe na- 
 med^and hefides this, Elheldred had by his firfl: 
 wife other two fonnes Ed'j^m and Adelfiorty and 
 one daughter named idginaj al which were 
 ether (layne by the dancs,or dyed without iflTue, 
 The fecod wife ofEtheldredwas called Emma^ 
 Emma^ fi^^f to Richard Duke of Normandie, who 
 mother was grand father to William the conqueror, to 
 Edvvafci witt^ father to Duke Robert, that w as father to 
 ihecon- William, fo as Emma was great aunt to this 
 * VVilliam , and f he bare vnto king Etheldred 
 tw o fonnes, the firft Edward , who was after- 
 ward named king Edward the Ccnfellbr, and 
 i^/^rwrfwho was flay ne rraiteroufly by iheEarlc 
 ofkenr,as prefently we fhal fhew. 
 After the death alfo of king Etheldred, Queene 
 'Emmawizs maried to the Dane king Canutus 
 thefiiftofthat name, furnamed the great,thac 
 was king of Ingland after Etheldred^ & Edmond 
 Ironfide his fonne,and to him f he bare a fonne 
 nzm^d Hardicanuius y who reigned alfo in In- 
 gland, before king Edward the Confc(Tbr. 
 Now then to come to ourpurpofe, he that 
 brcchcs Vvil confiderihc paffing of the ciowneof In- 
 f«Vc"in' * from the death of Edmonde Ironfide, 
 
 Mwc 10. elder fcnne of king Eltheldred, vntilthe pof- 
 fcflion iherof gotten by VVilliam Duke of 
 
 Normandie, 
 
tothcmumt. Tart i. Cap. VIII. i8j 
 
 Normandie, to vvitforthe fpace of jo. ycarcs^ 
 fhal ealbly fee what authority the common 
 Wealchhathinfuch affaires, to altei* titles of 
 fucceffion, according as pubh'queneceffity or 
 vtihty fhal require, for thus briefly the matter 
 parted. 
 
 King Ehheldrcd feing himfelfe to vveake 
 forSweno thekingof Danes, that was enrred 
 theland^fled with his wife Emma and her iwo 
 children Edward and Alerud,ST\x,o her brother 
 Duke Richard of Norm andie , & ther remay- 
 nedvntilihe death of Sweno, and he being 
 deadjEtheldred retuAiedintoIngland, made a 
 certayneagrementanddiuifion of the realme, 
 betweene him & Canutus the fonne of Sweno^ 
 and fo dyed , leauing his cldeft fonne Edmond 
 Ironfidej to fucccd him^ who foone after dying 
 a!fo,left the whole realme to the faid Canutus, 
 and thatby playne couenant as Canutus pre^ 
 tended, that the longeft liuer fhould haue ah 
 wheruppon the faid Canutus tookc the two 
 children of king Edmond Ironfide named 
 Edmond and Edward, and fent them ouer into sonnes 
 Sweuelad (which at that tyme was fubicdl alfo oi¥.'m% 
 vnto him) and canfed them to be brought vp ironfide* 
 honorably, ofvvhich two, the elder named 
 Edmond dyed without ilTtie, but Edward was 
 mariedandhaddiuers children as after fhalbc 
 touched, 
 
 Etheldred and his fonne Edmond being King Ca- 
 dead,Canutus the Dane was admitted for king ^^l^^^ 
 of England by the v vholc parlament & confent 
 
 O 1 ofthc 
 
1 8^ A Ccnference touching fucce/m 
 
 of the realme, and crowned by Alerud Archbili 
 hop ofCantcrbury^asPohdor faith, Sc hepro- 
 ucd an excellent king, went to Rome, and was 
 allowed by that fea alfo. He did many vvoikes 
 of charity, f hewed hira(elfe a goodchriftian^ 
 & very louing and kynde to IngTifhraen, mar- 
 rjed Queene Emma an Inglifh woman and 
 mother to king Edward the Confeflbr j dc 
 had by her a fonne, named Hardicanutus , and 
 fo dyed & was much mourned by the IngHfh^ 
 after he had reigned io. yeares, though his en- 
 trance and tyilevvas partelyby force andpar- 
 tely by eledion> as before you hauc hard. 
 
 After this Canutus the firft, furnamcd the 
 great (for that he was king ioyntely both of 
 Ingland Norway,and Denmark jv vas dcad^Po- 
 hdor faith that al the ftatcs of the realmc mctt 
 ring ha- together at Oxford toconfult f^hom thejf fhould 
 baftaid^ ki^g, and at laft hy the more fart of, voices iipas 
 103$. choferiy Haraldthcfirji lame of Canutus by a concu-^' 
 btney by which eledion we fee iniury was done 
 Foiyd.ls. tothe lineal fucceffion of three parties, firftto 
 hiil apgl. ^j^g fonnes of king Edmond Ironfide that were 
 
 AkruA fonnes to king Ethelrcd, and brothers to 
 ironfide th at weje in Normandy , and thirdly » 
 ro Hardicanutus, fonne to Canutus by his law- 
 ful Wife Emma^to whom it was alfo afliircd at 
 hermariage, that her ifTuc fhould fucccdc^if 
 f he had any by Canutus. 
 
 After the death of this Harald, who dyed 
 in Oxford whcr he was dented , within three 
 
 in Sweueland then to the 
 
 Edward and 
 
 ycarci 
 
tQthecro^m. Van x. Cap. VIII. 187 
 ycares after his ele^ion, ther came from Den^ 
 iw^ri^Hardicanutus to clame the crowne, that 
 his father & brother had pofleffed before him, 
 of vvhofecommingPolidor fairh, I'tbcntifimis y^^^y^^^^ 
 animis accifttar communique omnium cmfenfu rexdicanu- 
 diciturMcW2iS receaued with great good vvil j^^j/*^ 
 of al,and by common confent made king , and 
 this was done by the dates without any refpeiS; 
 hadofthefiicceflion of thofe Princes in Nor- 
 mandie and Sweueland,who by birth were be^ 
 fore him as hath bin fhewed, and this is the 
 breach of Hneal difcent after Erheldred. 
 
 But this Hardicanurus being dead alfo,vppo 
 the fudden at a certay ne banket in Lambeth by 
 3-ondon without ifTue, within two ycares after 
 his coron arion,thc dates of the realrae had dc- 
 termynedto chufe ^lWr^^^ for their king, who Aimed 
 was yonger brother to Edward, and foi^ thatg^^^^^ 
 caufc fent for him out of Normandy as PoHdor thcr prc- 
 recounteth , and had made him king without 
 al doubt ("for that he vvas eftemed more ftyr- 
 ring & vah'ant then his elder brother Edward) 
 had not Earle Goodwin of kct fearing the yong 
 mansftomake rayfeda ftrong faftion againft 
 him,and theruppon alfo caufed him to be tray- 
 leroufly raurthered as hepafled through kent 
 toward London, nor bad theftate heer-in any 
 refpedtoantiquitieof blood , for that before 
 Aluredy were both his own elder brother prince 
 Edward fwho after him vvas chofen king) and 
 before them both were Edmond and Edward 
 ihc childic of their elderbrothet,Edmon Iron- 
 
 O 3 fide,as 
 
1 88 A Cmferemetmcbm fuccefton 
 fide,as hath bin faid, and tnis the third breachc 
 of lineal difcent. 
 
 But this notwithfl:anding,^/m/rfbeing flayne, 
 prince Edward was made king, tantapublica Z^- 
 titia (CsLith Po\idox)vt certattmpro ems fdtci pm-- 
 ^^^^^^^^cipatu.cunili votafacercnt. Thatis,he vvas made 
 light of king with fuchvniperfalioy and contentment 
 fuccclTio. Qjf^i nien,aseuery mancontendedjwhofhould 
 pray and make mod vowes to God for his hap- 
 piereygne, and according to this was the fuc- 
 celTe, forhevvas a moft excellent prince, and 
 almoft iniraculoufly he revgned with great 
 peace and void of al war at home and a broad, 
 for the fpace of almoft io.ye ares after fo infinic 
 broyles as had bin before him, and infued after 
 hym, and yet his title by fucceflion can not be 
 iuftified,asyou fee, for that his eldeft brothers 
 fonne was the aliue, to wit prince Edward fur- 
 named the outlaWj who in this kinges reygnc 
 came into Ingland and brought his wife and 
 three lawful children with him , to wit Edgar^ 
 Miirgaret.Sc Chnfti4n,[hm yet was not this good 
 king Edward fo fcrupulous, as to giue ouer his 
 kingdometoany ofthem , or to doubt of the 
 right of his owne title, which he had byelc- 
 dtion of the common wcalihiagainft the order 
 of fucccflion. 
 
 This king Edward being dead without ifTuc, 
 Polidor faith that cht ftates made a great con- 
 fulration,whom they f hould make king , ^nd 
 firft of al it femeth they excluded him,that was 
 wly next by propin<juity in blood^which vvas 
 
 ' Ed^ar 
 
to the croJ^fte. Vart i. Cap. VIII, 1S9 
 
 tdgarAdebny fonne to the faid prince Edward 
 the outlaw now departed, and nephew to king 
 Edmond Ironfide, and the reafon of this exclu- 
 (ion is alleaged by Pohdor in ches vvordcs, i^polyd.l.i. 
 puet id atatts nondum regno gubemmdo maturus 
 erat: That is,he bing a child of fo fmale yearcs, 
 was not ripe enough to gouerne the king-Haraia 
 dome,and then he laith that Harald, fonne o^^^^^'^^J^* 
 Earle Goodwin, by the daughter of Canutus,aion. 
 the firft, proc/aymed himfclfe king , and more 
 ouer he ad Jerh,No« dijpliait omnmo idfa^um pa- ^^^.^ 
 fulo,qui plurimum fpei in Haraldi virtute habebatjta- fupj ' ^ * 
 (]ue more maiorumfacrdtmefi, vwhichiSy this fact 
 cfHaralddifpleafed nocatahhe people ofln- 
 gland, for that they had great hope in the ver- 
 tueofthisHarald^& fovvas heaonoynted and 
 crowned according to the fafllon of the anciec 
 kings oflngland, by which vvordes we may 
 fee,that Harald bad alfo the approbation of the 
 realme to beking.nocwith ftanding that lytle 
 Edgar was prefcnt as hath bin faid, fo as this 
 was the fourth breach of fucceflion at this 
 tyme. 
 
 But in the meane fpace, William Duke of William 
 Normandy pretended that he was chofen be- Normidy 
 fore by king Edward the Confeilbr, and that King of 
 the realme had giuen their confent therunto, ^^^J^^"^^^ 
 and that king Edward left the ftme teftified in by cic- ' 
 hislaftwiland teftament, and albeit none of 
 our IngUf h authors do aaow the fame cleerly, 
 yet do mjiny other forray ne writers hold it, and 
 k femeth very probable that fomcfuch thing 
 
 O 4 badlbp^ 
 
ipo A Conference touching fucfefm 
 had paft,both for that duke William h^d m any 
 in Ingland that didfanprhis pretence at his 
 entrance, as alfo as Girard in his French ftotic 
 faithjthatat hisfirft cpmniingto London, he 
 5unifhed diners by name, for that they had 
 i ard li ^^^^^ othes and promifes in that be- 
 
 ^M.io6$ i^^^k' And moreouer it appereih that by allea- 
 ging this title of eledion, he moued diners 
 princes abroade to fauour him in that adion, 
 as in a iuft quarrel , which is not hkc they 
 fhould haue done, if he had pretended^ only a 
 conqucft,or his title of confanguinity , which 
 could be of no importance in the world, for 
 thateffed:, feing it was no other but that hi^ 
 grand father and king Edwards mother , were 
 brother and fifter, which could giue him no. 
 
 Eretence at al to the fucceflSon of the crowne,^ 
 y b!oode,a,nd yet yve fee ^hat diners princes 
 didafljilhim , a.nd among others the French 
 9hron, chrpdicler Girard/o pfcen named before, wri- 
 cairin.!.} i^th that Alexander the fecond pope of Rome, 
 ^vvhos hoUnes was fomuch eftemedin thofe 
 dayes as one CoriJiantinHS Afer yWtotc a booke of 
 his miracles)being informed by Duke William 
 oftheiuftnes of his pretence, did fend him his 
 benediction and a precious ring of gold , with 
 a hallowed banner, by which he gort the vic- 
 tory, thus writeth Girard, in his French chro:. 
 4ntoni- wiclcs, and Antonimis Archbifhop pf Florence 
 wuspart. furnamed5'4/«^?, writing of this matter in hi^ 
 tu.i«^"* chronicles fpeaketh great good of William Cd- 
 4*^.^.^a.queror,and cornmendeth his cnterprife. Buc 
 
 howlbcucr 
 
Xothccro^ne. Van i. Cap. VIII. ipt 
 howfoeuer this was the vidoiy vvc fe he gar^ 
 and God profpered his pretence, and haih con- 
 firmed his of fpring in the crpwne of Ingland 
 ^lorc then joo.yeares together^ fo as now ac- 
 counting from the death of king Edmond 
 Ironfide^vnto this man, we fhal finde (as be* 
 fore I haue faid) in lefle then jo. yeares, thac/« 
 or 6. kings were made in Ingland one after 
 another J by only authority and approbation of 
 thecommonwealth, contrary to the ordina- 
 ry courfc of lineal fucceffion by propin^uitic 
 pfblood. 
 
 And al this is before the conqueft, but if vvc 
 fhould palTe any further downe, we fhould 
 finde more examples then biefore. For fitit theExamp!« 
 two Tonnes of the Conqueror himfdfe , that^^^^^ 
 fuccedcd after him, to wit william Rufus and 
 Henry the firft, were they not both yonger 
 brothers to Robert Duke of Normandie , to 
 VvIiPm the moll: part of the realme was inclined 
 (as Polydor fay th) to hau^ giuen the kingdonie p^^^ 
 prc(entlyafier the Conquerors death, as dcvwita goL 
 to him by fu^ceffion , notwithftanding that^°*^^* ' 
 VVilliam forparticuler difplcafnrc againft his 
 cider fonne, had ordeyned the contrary in his 
 teftament. But that Robert being absent in the 
 warofHierufalem, thelioly and lerned man 
 Lanfranke (as he was accompted then) Arch- 
 bifhop of Canterbury being deceaued with 
 Vaine hope of VVilliam Rufus good natu re, wiiliaai. 
 perfwaded them the contrary ,who was at that ^^-"^ 
 day ofhigh eft€mation,& authority in Ingland, An laj^ 
 
 O J andfo 
 
ipi A Conference touching fuccefton 
 
 and fo might induce the realrae to do what he 
 liked. 
 
 Henry i. By like meancs gat Henry his yongcr bro- 
 *^*"°° ther the fame crowne afcerwards,ro wit by fairc 
 promifes to the people,and by helpe principal- 
 ly of Henry Newborow Earle of war wick . that 
 dealt with the nobility for hitn , and Maurice 
 bifhopofLondon with the cleargie, for that 
 Anfelme Archbifhop of Canterbury was in 
 banifhment. Befides this alfo it ;did greatly 
 healpe hiscaufejthat his elder brother Robert, 
 (tovvhomthecrowne by right apperteyned) 
 was ab(ent againe this fecond tyme in the 
 ware of lerafalem, and fo loft therby his king- 
 dome^as before: Henry hauing no other title 
 in the world vnto it,but by ele^ion andadmif- 
 fion of the people , which yet he fo defended 
 afcervvards againft his faid brother Robert, that 
 came to clayme it by the fword,andgod did fo 
 profper hirn ther-in,as he tooke his faid cHer 
 brother prifoner, and fo kept him fox many 
 yeareSjVntil he dyed in prifon moft pitifully. 
 Mathild. But this king Henry dying, left a daughter 
 prdTe? b^hii^d him named MawJe or Mathilde, which 
 being married firft to the Emperor Henry the 
 fifr, he dyed without ilfae, and then was fhe 
 married agaynethefecaJ tyme to Geffry Pian- 
 tagenetEaile of A n jow in France, to whom fhe 
 bareafbnne named Henry , which this king 
 Henry his grand father, ciufed to be declared 
 for heyrc apparent to thecrownein his day^s, 
 but yet after his difcealTc, for that Stephc Eirlc 
 
 ofBol- 
 
to the cro^-ne. Vm i. Cap. VIII. 195 
 
 of Bollof^ne, borneof Adela daughter to Wil-^**""^^^ 
 I liam the Conqueror, was thought by the Itatccntred 
 
 of Ingland to bemore fitt to gouerne, and 
 i defend the land (for that he was at mans agc)ii35. 
 ! then was prince Henry a child, 01 Maude his 
 ! .inother,he was admitted, and Henry put back, 
 ; and this chiefly at the perfwafion of Henry 
 j bifhop ofwinchefter, brother to the faid Ste- 
 phen, as alfoby the folicitation of the Abbot of 
 Glaflenbury and others, who thought be like 
 they might do the fame, with good confcience 
 for the good oftherealme , though the cuent 
 proued not fo wtl , for that it drew al Ingland 
 into fa£lions and diuifions, for auoyding and 
 cndingwherof,theftaicsfome years after, in a 
 parlament at Wallingford made an agremenr, An^aof 
 that Stephen fhould be lawful king, during P^;;^^^'^ 
 his life only, and that Henry andhisoffpringfucceiHo 
 fhould fuccede him , and that prince William 
 king Stephens fonne fhould be dcpriued of 
 his fucceflion to thecrownc, and made only 
 EarleofNorfolcke, thus dyd the ftatedifpofe 
 of the crowne at that ly me,vvhich was in the 
 ycareofChrift iij3. 
 i To this Henry fucceded by order bis elded 
 1 fonne then liuing,named Richard, and (lirna-ch"j^fa4 
 med Cordeljoiiy for his Valor, but after himJ<^tngit^'^ 
 I agayne,thefuccefllon vvasbroken. For thit^^^""' 
 I John king Henries yongeft (onne, to wit yoger 
 i brother to Richard, whom his fatherthe king 
 j hadleft fovnprouidedasin ieft he was called 
 I hy the frcnch lean fens UtUi as if you would 
 ! fayc Sir 
 
1 94 A Conference tmebtng facet fm 
 faye Sir lohn lacke-land ; this man I fay, was 
 after the death of his brother, admitted and 
 crowned by theftatesof Ingland, and Arthuc 
 DukeofBritaine, fonneand heyre toGcfFery 
 fthat was elder brother to lohn) was againft 
 the ordinarie courfe of fucceflSon excluded, 
 yriace At And albeit this Arthur did feeke to remedy the 
 ^l^^ matter, by warr, yet it femed that god did 
 more defend this election of the common 
 wealth, then the right title of Arthur by fuc- 
 ce(Iion,for that Arthur was ouer-come, and 
 taken by king lohn , though he bad the king 
 of Frauncc on his fide , and he dyed pitifully ia 
 prifon, or rather as moft authors do hold , he 
 was put to death by king lohn his vncles own 
 handes in the caftle of Roan , therby to make 
 his title of fucceffion more clearc , which yec 
 could not be,for that as wet Stow in his Chro- 
 nicfc,as alfo Mathew of weftmmfter and others 
 before him, do Write, tbat Geffrey befides this. 
 Trvofi. ^^ft two daugliters alfo by the lady Co- 
 
 fters of ftancc his wife, CountelTi & heyrc of Bxicaine, 
 which by the Uw of Ingland fhould haue 
 of Britai- fucceded before lohn, but of this, fmal accopt 
 
 fcemed to be made at that day. 
 15 lohn Some yeares after, when the Barons and fta- 
 ondhis tes of Ingland midiked vtrerly the gouermenc 
 l^^^^'^-afid proceeding of this kingIohn,tKey reiecVed 
 uu, him agayne, & ch,ofe Lup the piirice of France 
 to be ther king , and dyd fvveare fealtie to him 
 in London, as before hath bin faidc, and they 
 depriued alfo th^yong prince Hery bisfonne, 
 
 that was 
 
tothccYtft^m. Tart t. Cap. VIII. ijj 
 that was at that tyme,but of 8. yeares ould^but 
 vppon the death of his father king lohn, that 
 fhortly aftet infued , they recalled agayne that 
 ; fentcncc,& admitted this Henry to the crovvnc 
 I by the name of king Henry the third, anddifa- 
 I nulled the oth and allegeance made vnio Lujs 
 \ Prince of France, and lo king Henry reigned 
 ■ for the fpace of j j .yeares afterwards, the logeft 
 ! rcygnc (as I thinke that any before or after him 
 hathhadinlngland. 
 
 Moreouer you know that from this kingTh€ttti« 
 I Henry the third , do rake their firft beginning ^^aftcu 
 the two branches of York and Lacaftcr which 
 after fell to fo great contention d^out the 
 crowne: Into which if we would enter, we 
 ifhould fee playnly as before hath bin noted, 
 jthat the beftofal their titles after the depoficio 
 i of king Richard the (econd, depended of this 
 authority of the common wealth, for that as 
 jthe people Were affeded and the greater parte 
 preuailed^fd were their titles ether allowed co- 
 lirmed altered or difa nulled by parlaments,and 
 iyer m ay not we wel affirme, but that ether part 
 ^when they were in polteflipn and confirmed 
 therinby thesparlaments, were lawful kings, 
 and that God concurred with them as with 
 true princes for goucrmet of their people^for if 
 vve f hould deny this pointe,as before hath bia 
 noted,greatinconueniences would follow, & 
 vve f hould f hake the ftatcs of moft princes in 
 the world at this day ,as by examples which al- 
 redy I haue alleaged in part may appeare. 
 
I ^6 A Conference touching fuccefkn 
 
 And with this alfo I meane to conchidc and 
 end this difcourfe in like manner, nffirming 
 The con^ that as on the one fide propinquity of bloode is 
 th'if-cha^^ a great preheminence towards the atreyning of 
 pier. any crownejo yet doih it noteuer bynde the 
 comn)6 wealth toyeald ther-vnto^ifwaightier 
 reafons 1 hould vrge them to the contrary , ne- 
 ther is the common wealth bound alwayes to 
 f hutther eyes, and to admit at hap-hazard , or 
 ofnectflityeuery one that is next by fucceffioti 
 of bloodc, Belloy falfely ^ fondly affirmeth, 
 but rather fheis bound to confider vvel and 
 maturely the perfon that is to enter ^ whether 
 he be like to performe hisduety and charge 
 committed vnto him or no, for that othervvifc 
 to admitt him,thatisan enimyeor vnfitt,isbuc 
 todeftroy the common weahh, and him toge- 
 thcr.This is my opinion, and this feemeih to 
 mcto beconforme to al reafon,law,religion, 
 piety, wifdome, and poUicy, and to the vfe 
 and cuftome of al vvel gouerned common 
 wealthes in the world , nether do I meane 
 heereby to preiudice any princes pretence or 
 fucceflion to any crownc or dignitie in the 
 world, but rather do hold that he ought to 
 cnioy his preheminence,but yet fo, that he be 
 not preiudical therby to the whole body,which 
 is euer to be refpedted more then any One per- 
 fon, whatfoeuer Belloy or other of his opinion 
 do fay to the contrary. 
 
 Thus faidtheCiuilian^andbeing called vp- 
 pon and drawne to anew matter by rhe que- 
 
tothecYd^fte. Tdtt i. Cap. IX. 157 
 
 (lion that cnfueth, he made his laft difcourfc & 
 ccnclufion of the whole matter, in mamicr 
 following* 
 
 VVHATARE THE 
 
 PR I N C I PAL POINTS WHICH 
 A C O M M O N^VV EALTH OVGHT 
 to refpclt w admitting or excluding of any pmcc, 
 ttutpetendcth to fucceede.'^heitn is hand^ 
 lid Urgdy alf> oftheJiucrftticof 
 rcltgtons and other fucb 
 uufes. 
 
 Cap. IX. 
 
 AFter theCiuilianhadallcagedal thes 
 examples of fuccefljon altered or reiefted 
 by pubh'que authoritie of common v\ealthes, 
 and ofthe allowance and approbation &good 
 fuccede which for the moft part god femeth to 
 hauegiiien vnro the fame, one of the company 
 brake forth and faid, that ihispoynt appeared 
 foeuident vntohim^as nodouDtin the world 
 couldbemadethcrof, Imeane, whether this 
 thing in it felfe be lawful or no , to alter (bme- 
 tymes the courfe of fncceflGon/eing that ai co- caofwof 
 mon vvealthesof Chriftendome, haddonneit c-^ciuding 
 fo often. Only he faid, that it remayned fome- ^""^ 
 i vhatdoubful vnto him,whether the caufesal- 
 ! leaged in thes mutations, and chainges before 
 I mentioned, werealwayes fuflicicnt or no, for 
 Ithatrometymcstheyremedto him butweake 
 
1 9 S A Conference touching fuccefton 
 
 andflender, as when ffo I* example^ the vncle 
 was preferred before the nephewes, for thac 
 be was a man and the other children, which 
 caiifeand rcafon hathoftentymes byn alleaged 
 in the former exapies, both of Spaine, Fraunce, 
 and Ingland , as alfo when the yonger ot 
 baftard brother is admitted the elder and le- 
 gitimate excludedj for that the Dne is a warrier, 
 & the other not, and other fuch hke caufes are 
 yealded ffaid he) in the exclnjfions before rc- 
 'hearfed , vvhich yet feme not fome-tymes 
 vvaighty enough for fo great an affaire. 
 
 To thisanfwered the CiuiHan, that accor- 
 cting to their law^both ciuil and canon(v vhich 
 thing alfo he affirmed to be founded in greilt 
 reafon) it is a matter moft certayne, that he 
 vvhoisiudgeandhath logiuethe fentence in 
 the thing, itfelfe, isalfbtoiudge ofrhecaufe^ 
 for therofis he called iudge, andifhehane au- 
 vvh« thority in the onej good reafon he niould alfo 
 muftiad- haue power to difcerne the other, foas, if we 
 ll^ilx ^ graunte according to the forme & proofes^that 
 caufcsof the realme or common wealth hath power to 
 admitt or put back the prince or pretender to 
 thecrowne, then muft we alfo confciTcthac 
 the fame common wealth, hath authority to 
 iudge of the lawfulnes of the caufes, and confi- 
 dering further that it is in ther ownc affaire > & 
 in a matter that hath his whole beginning^con- 
 tinuance and fubftance from them alone, I 
 meane from the common wealth , for that no 
 man is king or prince by infticution of nature^ 
 
 as before 
 
ti)thecro^m. Part i. Cap* IX. t^^ 
 as before harh bin declared, but cuery king and 
 kings lonne^harh hi«dignity and pithemii'«ecc 
 aboueothei men^ by authority only of ihec5* 
 men vvealih : w/ho can affiime the contrary 
 faid the Cinilian/ but that god doth allow for 
 aiuftandfufficient caulein this behalfe, the 
 only vvil and iudgmenr of the weal publique 
 it fclfe , (uppohiig alw^ayes /as in reafon we 
 rnay) that a Vvholc realme\Ail nener . agree by 
 orderly way of iudgtncnt (for of this only I 
 mtane and not of any parti^ulcr facflion of pri- 
 uate men agaynft ther heyre appare*.)ro exclude 
 or put back the next heyre in blood and fuc* 
 ceflion without a teafonable caufe, in their 
 fight ^nd cenfure. And fcing that they only are 
 tobeiudges of this cafe, /as now I haue faid^ 
 vve are to prcfume that what they decermyne, 
 is iull and lawful for the tytne , and if at one 
 tymethey f hould deteimine one thing, &ths 
 contrary at an other , ("asihcy did often inln- 
 gland dunng the conterition betvvene York & 
 Lancafter and in other like occafions) what 
 can a priuare rnan judge otherwifc, but that 
 they had diifFcrent reafons and rnotions to leadc 
 them at different tymes , and they being pro- 
 perly lords and owners of the whole bufmes, 
 committed vnto them, it is enough for eucry 
 parriculer man to {ubirdt himfelfe to that 
 yvhich his common wealth doth in this be- 
 halfe, and'to obey iimply without any further 
 inquifition^except hefhould fee thatopen in- 
 iuftice vVcre donnctherrn or God mahifeftly 
 
 P ©{Funded 
 
cfFcnd d , and the rcalme indangered, 
 iutt*icc*to Op^" iniufticc 1 cal (faid he} when not the 
 be tcfi- txu(: common wealih,but fome fadion of wic* 
 <^e<i» ktdme fhould ofFei to determine this matter^ 
 without lawful authority of thcrealmc com- 
 mitted to them , and leal manifcft ofFence of 
 God, and danger of the rcalme , when fucha 
 ,X)ianis prtftrrcd toihecrowne, as iseuident 
 thathewildovvhatlyethin him to thc prtiu* 
 dxeofthemboth, Imeane bcthe of Gods glo- 
 ry and the publique wealth, as for example,if i 
 Turke or Moore(as before I hauefaid) or fomc 
 other notorious wicked man,or t)Tant,f hould 
 be o{Fied by fucccdion or otherwife to gouernc 
 among Chriftians , in which cafes eucry man 
 (no doubtj is bound to refill what he can , for 
 that the very end and intent for which al go* 
 uermct was fiift ordeyncd^ is herein manifclUy 
 impugned. 
 
 Thus the Ciuilian difcourfedjand the whole 
 company feemed to like very vvel therof, for 
 vvhtl ^hat they faid his opinion appeared both pru- 
 »rc tht^ dent and pious, and by this occafio itcamealfo 
 ^^inttito p'^^^^^^'y in queftion^vvhatvvere the true cnu- 
 Ic* regar- fes and principal points , which ought to be 
 <)ed in a chiefly regarded, as wcl by ihecommo wealth 
 
 jpnncesaa • • • ' . « . . 
 
 oiifllon. as by eueryparticukrman,m this great action 
 of furthering orhindeiirg any Prince towards 
 a crownc. And they faid vnio the Ciuilian,that 
 if he would difcuflb in like manner this pointc 
 vnro tht m,ii would be a very apt and good co* 
 clufion to al his fermci (peach and difcourfes, 
 
 Vvhkh 
 
tothemT^ne. Part r. Cap* IX* lai 
 
 which hauing bin of the authority thatweale 
 publiques haue ouer princes titles, this other of 
 the caufes and confiderations that ought to 
 lead them forvfeand excercifeofthe fame au- 
 thority ,wouldfal very fit and neceffary for the 
 vp fhottofal* 
 
 Hecrunto the Ciuihan anfwcfed , that he 
 wel favv the fitnes and importance of the mac- 
 ter,and therfore that he was content to fpeak a 
 word ortwo moretherof, notwithftading that 
 much had bin faid alredy therin, towitt, in al 
 thofe pointes which had bindifputed about the 
 end ofgouerment, and why it was appoynted, 
 which ende (faid he) fcing it is (as largely hath 
 bin proued before) to defendjprcferue^and be- vvhcnc^ 
 nifite the common wealth, heer hence, that is, the rca- 
 from this confideration^ of the weal publique, [dmitt^ 
 ire to be deduced al other confiderations ef fing orre 
 moft importance, for difcerningagood oreuel p*^*cAi2 
 prince. For that wbofoeuerxs n)oft likely totobcta. 
 defend, preferucj and bcnifitc moft his realme^^^ 
 and fubiedls, he is moft to be allowed and de- 
 fyred, as moft conforme to the end for which 
 gouetment was ordeyned. 
 
 And on the contrary fide, he that is leaft like 
 todothiSjdeferuethleaft tabe preferred, and 
 beer (quoth he ) you fee doth enter alfothac 
 confideraiion mentioned by you before, which 
 diuers common wcalthes had in putting back 
 oftentymes children & impotet peoplefthough 
 otherwifencxt in bloodj from fucceflion ^ and 
 ipteferritjg more able men though further of by 
 j Pi tlifcent^ 
 
101 A Cdnfercnce tcuchin^ fuccefm 
 difcent/orihatthey were more like to defend 
 vvell therrealme and fubiecfts then the others 
 were. 
 
 But to proceede (Czid he) more diftind:Iy and 
 XTiore perrpicuoully in this mauerj svould hane 
 you cal to niynde one point among others 
 Girard H. hich I alle^ged bvfore,out of Girard the frcch 
 3 .deiT- authorjto vv*it,that the king offrance in his co- 
 242^^ ronationisntw apparaled three tymes in one 
 day, once as a prieite, & then as a iudge^and laft 
 Three as a kmgarmed.Thetby to fignifie three thyn- 
 mls^f ges committed tohischarge,firft re]igion,then 
 be'confi^ iuftice, then man-hood and chiualry , for the 
 dcicd. defence of the realme. 
 
 Thisdiuifionfemeth to me very good and 
 Bit fquorhhe)and to comprehend al that a 
 vealpublique hath ncede of, for her happy 
 ftate and felicity, both in (oule and body, aid 
 forherend^both fupernatufaland natural. For 
 by the fiiftwhich is reh'gion^her fubiedVs do at- 
 caynevnto their end fpiritual& fupernarural^ 
 w hich IS the faUiation of their foules, & by the 
 fecond and third, which are iuftice and dcfece, 
 the) enioy their fehcuy temporal, which is to 
 liue in peace among them felues, and fafety 
 from their enimyes^ for which caufe it (eemeih 
 that thefe are the three poii ts which n^oft are 
 to be regarded in euery Prince , that ccmm,eih 
 togoueimeur,and much more in him thai is 
 rotyet admitted then nro, but ofrrtrh him* 
 felfeto the common wcahh for the fame pur • 
 pofe. 
 
 And 
 
tothecro^ne. Van i. Cap. IX. 20 j 
 And for that rhe later two of thes three points vvhv he 
 which are umice&: man-hood , hath bin onen to treat of 
 had in conlidcrat4on,in the examples ^f^'^^^^-'f/^^f^^. 
 ges before mentioned^and the nrft point whichiy-. 
 is rchgion J hath raiely or neuer at al byn talked 
 of, for that in former tymes rhe prince and the 
 people were alvvaves of one and the fame reli- 
 gion, and fcarfeeuer any qutftion or doubt fel 
 in that behalfe (which yec mour dayes is the 
 principal ditFercce and chiefeft difficultieof al 
 ocheryforthescaulcs (Ifayj fhal I accommo- 
 date myfelfecoihe circumftanceof thetyme, 
 w herin we liue,and to the prefent cafe which 
 is in cjueftion betwixt vs about the fucceflTioa 
 of Ingland, and leauing afid? thofe other two 
 confiJerations of iuftice and chiuahy in a king, 
 vvhicb are farleflc important, then the other 
 {'though yet fo highly regarded by ancient co- 
 mon w^althcs as you hauehardy I fhal treate 
 principally of religion, in this place, as of the 
 firftand higheft,and mod necefTary pointe of 
 al other, tobeconfidered in the admiffion of 
 any prince , for the profit of his fubiefts: for 
 that without this, he deftroyeth al, and with' 
 this^-albeit he I hould haue dcfccfls in the orher 
 two poinies of iuftice and manhode,yet mayic 
 be holpen,cr his defedl or negligence maye 
 be fupplyed much by others, as after I fhal 
 fhewmorein particulcr, butif hewant fears 
 of GodjOr care of religion, or beperuerfly per- 
 fuaded therin,thedomage of the weale publi-^ 
 que is ineftimable. Firft of al then, better 
 
 J? 5 viider* 
 
104 Conference touching fuccepon 
 
 J^d of ^ vnderftanding of this point, we arc tofuppofif, 
 common that the firft cheefeft, and higheft ende that 
 vvcairh God and nature appointed to cueiy common 
 ii^ll!^^' wealth, was not fo much the temporal felicity 
 of the body, as the fupcrnatural and euerla- 
 ftingofthe foule , and this was not only re- 
 uealedtothe lewesby holy fcripture, but alfo 
 vnto the gentiles and heathens by the inftin(5fc 
 and light of nature it fclfe. For by this light of 
 natural reafon, the learned fort of them came 
 to vndcrftand the immortality of the foule , & 
 that her felicity perfe(flion and ful contentmcr, 
 which they called her final ende and ///wwwwi 
 bonu?jixou\d not be in this life,nor in any thing 
 created vndcr heauen, but muft needs be in the 
 life to come 3 and that by atteyning to enioy 
 fome mfiniteendles & immortal obiecfl^which 
 could fully fatisfie the appetite of our foule, & 
 this could be no other then God, the maker of 
 al himfclfe. And that confequently al other 
 things of this tranfitory life, and of this hu-^ 
 mane common wealth, fubied to mans eyes, 
 are ordeyned to feruc and be fubordinate &: di- 
 ledcd to the other higher ende, and that al 
 mans adlions in this world, are fiift of al , and 
 in the higheft degree,to be imployed to the re* 
 cogni(ing,{eruing, and honoring of this great 
 f bflofo- ^^^^ ^^^^ gouerneth the whole,as author and 
 
 j>hcrs and Cnd ofal. 
 
 kcrsvvhat To this light J fiiy, came the heathens euen 
 end they by the inftind and diredion of nature, wherof 
 thti ^ i^^^^^ ^h^t ^h^r was neuer yet pagan Pbilofo^ 
 
tothecYo'nme. Vart i. Cap. IX. loj 
 phc r that wrote of framing a good commoa 
 vvealthas SocrateSy Plato, Plutarchy Cicero , and 
 others, nether lawmaker among them that left 
 crdinaces for the fame purpofe.as Deucalion Mi-* 
 nos,Zaleucu6McuYgmySoloJo}hNf4ma,ot the like, 
 which befides the temporal ende ofdiredting 
 thii}ge$ wel for the body^bad not efpecial cate 
 alio, of raauers apperteyning to themynde, 
 to wit, of nourif bing , honoring, and re- 
 warding of vertae, and for reftrayning and 
 punifhingc^f vice, and vvickednes , vvherby 
 is euident that their end and butt was to 
 make their cytizcnsgood and vertuous,which 
 was a higher end, then to haue a bare con- 
 fideration of tetpporal and bodily benifits 
 only , as many gouernours of our diyes 
 (though Chriftians in name) feemc to haue, 
 who pretend no higher end in ther gouer- 
 ment then bodily wealth, and a certaync 
 temporal king of peace and iuftice among 
 ther £ubie£l;s^vvhich diuers beads alibdo reach 
 vnto., in ther congregations and common The com 
 weahhes, as is to be feeme among emetts and J^^^j^j^ 
 bees, cranes, lyons, arid other fuch creatures, of bc*- 
 thai by inftind of nature arc fociable , and do 
 liue in company, and ccmlequently al(b do 
 maynteyncfomnch order and polHcy in ther 
 common vvealth,a$ is needful for their prcflr-^ 
 iwtion and continuance. 
 
 But nature taught man a far higher '''J'^***'* 
 and more excellent ende in his common maas ce- 
 vvcahh, which was not only to prouidc for thos ^ 
 
xo6 A C onference touching fuccefion 
 bodily benefit:* ihar are common alfo to crea- 
 tures withouC rea(on,but m uch more for thof^ 
 ofthemynd, andaboue al for the feiuing of. 
 tharhiga and Ibpieme God , that is the begin- 
 ning &: end o.fal the reft. Fur vvhofe ferujcecilfa 
 they learned by the fame i'iftin(5l and inftuutio 
 of nature, mat the chiefcft and fupremeftho- 
 uor that could bt done vnto him in this life by 
 man, was i her honor of (acrifice and oblations, 
 andobu! vvhich we fee was begun and ptadifed eueii 
 ti'ons by inthofe firft brgmnings of the law of nature, 
 ^^w^* before the leuitica! lavVj and the particuler for* 
 roes of this fame law, were prefcubed by Moy- 
 fes. For fo we read m Genelis of Noe, that he 
 made an alter and ofTrcd facrifices to Godvp- 
 pon thefamCyOfaltbt'beaftes and byrdes that 
 C?<n8,>^o.hehad in the^rke, odoratufque eft Domtnm odor- 
 7emfumitatis ^ auu God receaued thefmel^ of 
 thesfaciifices,asafweetfmel.Which is idlay^ 
 ^hat God was highly pleafed therwith, and the 
 likevvereade of lob that vvas a gentile, and 
 ^^.i. lined b^^fore Moyfes, Sanfltficahat filios confur-^ 
 genfque Ailuculo ojferebat holocaujta per dies fingulas. 
 He did fanditiehischildren, and rifing early in 
 the morning did offer for theni holocaftes or 
 ^.urut ficnfices euery day. 
 
 This men vfedin thofedayes, and this they 
 were taught by law of natu re, I meane both to. 
 honor God abpuc^il things, and to honor him 
 by this patticuler way of iacrificcs, which is 
 proued alfo cuidently by that which at this 
 day is founds and fecncinthe Indians , whcr 
 
 nque? 
 
tothecroT^ne. Tart i. Cap. IX. 207 
 neiKr any notice ofMoyles law came, and yec 
 jio nation huth euer bni found among them, 
 that acknowkgeih not fome kinde of God, 
 andotfercth not Ibme kinde of racnfife vnto 
 him. 
 
 And albeit in the particuler meanes of ho- 
 noring this God, as alio in diftingiiifhing be- 
 twecnc falfe God^ and the true God, ihes peo^ 
 pie of the Indian hauc f:.llen into moft groOe & 
 infin.ite errors, as alfo the gentiles of Europe, 
 Afia,& Africadid, by the craft & fubtilty of the 
 dmel^which abuflng their ignorancejdid thruft 
 him felfe into the place of God,andderiued 5c 
 drew rhorefacnfifes and fupreme honors vnto 
 himfelfe, vvhich vveredewto God alone, yec 
 is it enident heetby (and this is fufficient for 
 our purpofej that by God & nature, thehightftThechifb 
 andchiefcllendofeuery comn-on vvealih , is end of a 
 Cf^ltt4S Dei, ihe feruice ofGod,and religion, and vTeaUh^ 
 confequcntly rhit the principal care &c charge ni^^ge'^r*- 
 of a prince and mageftrate euen by nature ic^ton/^^ 
 felfe, is^ to looke therunto, wherof al anti- 
 quity both among lewes and Gentiles , were 
 wont to haue fo great regard , as for many 
 yeares and ages then* kings & chiefe magcllra- 
 tesvvereaho preeftes: and diuers lernedmen 
 do hold, that the priuilege and preheminenceceflp- 
 of primo^enitura orthefirft borne children, ^-^ ^ i s, 
 (b much eftemed in the law of nacurefas he-^j^^l^^t",! 
 fore we haue feenej cofilled principally in this, tc Gu:('S 
 that the cldeftfbnnes were pieelles h.id thc^^J^/*;^ 
 chargeanddigniry of chisgreatcit adtion of aU.raiii ii 
 
 P j ether 
 
Jc8 A Conference touching fuccefm 
 
 ocher vppon earth , which our temporal Ma^ 
 giftrarcs lb little regard now. 
 JLcgarJaf And this refpc6^ and leucrence tovvardsrc- 
 ^ong" 'igi<^»'» vvas fo greatly planted in thebrefts of 
 Ijcaulcs. al nations by nature herfelfe, as Cicero pro- 
 
 nounfed, this general fenrcnce in his tyme. 
 J'*^^^*^ eft gens umferay nulla tarn immanis, cuius 
 iurc.& mcntem non mbucrit dcorum cotmdorum relsgto. 
 dcoruiu^*^^"^ is no nation (6 fearce or b^tbarous,whofe 
 jib.i. myn Jes are not indued which lome religion 
 
 of worfhipping Gods. 
 ^^«^arch And Pluurch writing againft a cert^inc Aihcift 
 Colotcm.^f^^'Styme faith thus: if you trauaile far coun^ 
 tries, jou may chance tofindfomectttes, ii?tthout kr^ 
 ningy i^tthoHt kings, T^ttlmt itches, without money ^ 
 hut a citty^tthout temples, andl^ithout Gods and fa^ 
 crififcs y no man yet hath euerfeene. And finally 
 Aiiftol 7 Ariftorle in hi^ politiqucs hauing numbred di- 
 foli£i.c.«. uers things^neceffiry to acomiBon weal t:, ad* 
 deth thes vvordes. Onintmn&pr'tmum. Circa, rem 
 diinnam cultm, quoifacerdotium facr'ifciumiiue v<7- 
 cant. In the* fife place (which in deed onghc 
 to be thefitft of al other; is neeelTary to acorn - 
 mon wealth, the honor and feruice dew vnto 
 God, which men commonly do compehtnd 
 by the vvoordes of preeft-hode and facrifice. 
 Theab- Al this I hlue allcagcd to confute euen by 
 iwrdA- the principles of nature herfclfc, the abfurd 
 ot'ouT^ opinions of diuers atheiftcs. of our cyme, that 
 tymciix Will feeme to be gteat politiques^who affirine 
 |ucs[!" ^^^^ religion ought not to be fo greatly le- 
 fpe^flsd in a prince, or by a prince, as though 
 
 it were 
 
tothecrd^ne. Tart i. Cai>. IX. 109 
 it were his chieftft care or the matter of moft 
 importance in his gouerment, which you fee 
 how falfe and impiousitis, euen among the 
 getiles themiclucsjbut much moreamog chri- 
 ftianSjWhohauefo much the greater obJigntio 
 to lake to hart ih is matter of reh'gion, by how 
 much greater light & knowledge iheyhaue of 
 God,and therfore we feethat in al the princes 
 othes which before vou haue hard recited to 
 be made & taken by them at their admiffion 8c 
 coronation, thefirft and principal point of a! 
 othcr,is about religion & maintenance therof. Sec be* 
 and according ro this oth alfo of fupreme prin.^^^^^^^^'* 
 ces,not only to defend and maynteyne religion made by 
 by themfelues in al ther ftates, but alfo by th^ir^hcirco- 
 liefccnaunts and vndergouernouis^ wehauein tonations 
 ourciuil law a very folemne forme of an o^hJ^J^^ 
 which luftinian the Emperor , abouc a thou- 
 fand and /o.yearesgone, was wonttogiue to 
 al hisgouernours of countries, citties and other 
 places, before they could be admitted to their 
 charges,and for that it is very efFec^lual, & that 
 you may fee therby what care there was of this 
 matteratihattyme: and what manner of fo* 
 lemne and religious proteftations , as alfo im- 
 precations they did vfetherin, itfhalnot be 
 amide perhapps to repeat the fame in his owne 
 Woords which are thes following. 
 
 The title in the Ciuil law is : iuramentum qtwdj^^^^ 
 Tfitjlatur,ijs qui admmijirationes auipiun^ the othnorslfo"^ 
 which is giuen to them thatreceaue gouer-^^^^^^l^^^ 
 mencs, and then the oth beginnetb thus. jioa. ^ 
 
 luro! 
 
1X0 A Conference touching fuccefm 
 
 Noudia^* r//r^7 per Deum ommpotentem & filium eius vmgemt% 
 •onftit. Vommumnojirum lefumChnJitm& Spirttum fan^ 
 lujhn ^'^iirn^ & per fanMa n glomftm Dei gemmcem& 
 femnr vtYgmem \Uriam , & per quatuor euangelia 
 q 'j(& m mambiis mm teneo, & per fanilos arch^ngelos 
 Micha^lem& Gubridera puram canfctentiam germa^ 
 mmqur fenntium me feruaturum facratipmis noHris 
 Dominis lufimiam & Theodoftdi caniugi em,occafione 
 traditds miht ab eoru ptctate admmiflrathms. Et quod 
 (ont miCMor fum fan^ipf^fU Dei Catbohcdt &Apojlolu 
 C£ Ecdejh.& niiUo mo io vd tempore admftborei^ nec 
 alvim qnocHnpie pcrmtttam quxtum popbdttate ha^ 
 bean, &ft ve^onon luc omnia feruauero , recipiam 
 omnia incomoda mc& in futuro fecnlo m terribilt tu-' 
 dttio magni Oom'im Dei & faluatork nojlri lefu Chri" 
 fti>& habebo pane cum luda {3* cu lepra Giez,i,& cum 
 tremore Cain^infuper (ir pdtnis quds, lege eorumpietath 
 fbrrae^of Continent ur ero fubiecliu. Vfhkh in Inglifh is thus^ 
 this otheldofwearc by almightic God, and by his holy 
 An^Mi f^nne our Lord lefus Chrift, and by the holy 
 s6q. ghoftjand by the holy glorious mother of God,^ 
 » the perpetu;:il virgin Marie, and by the foure 
 ^»hoIy ghofpells which I do hold in my h ind,& 
 » by the holy archangels ^. MirWand S. Gakiely 
 J J that I wil k:pe a pure confcif^ncej&r performe 
 5^ true feruice vnta the facred perfons of our 
 » Lords and princes luftinianandTheodofta his 
 wife,in ^loccaiions of rhisgaaerment,by theic 
 5>benignity cornmirted vnto me.Moreouer I do 
 »*fweare thit I am communicant and member of 
 I'the moll holy Cacholique and Apoftolique 
 jjcharcli of God, aad chat 1 fhal neuer at any 
 
 tymc 
 
fv the croJ^v€. Tarf J. Cap. TX. 21 1 
 tyme heeraftcr be contrary to rhe f^mc^nor fuf- 3, 
 fer any other to be^ as much as fhal lye in my 
 ponjbilkieco let. And if I Ihould break this 
 oth or not oblerue any poy nt therof, I am con- ,> 
 tent to receaue any punjfment both in this 5, 
 world as alfo in the world to comme, in that 
 laft ana mod terrible indgmenr of our great,. 
 Lord and fauepur lelusChiift^ and tu haut my j» 
 part with ludas, as alio with the l^-piofye of,, . 
 Giez^ and with thefearcand trembling cfdam- 5, 
 nedCain: and beiidesal this I ( halbe fiibieci- „ 
 toal punifhments that are ordeyned iivthe la 
 wes of their MaieJlycSy concerning this aftaire. 
 
 Thisothdid al the goueinours of ci riftian 
 countryes take in old tyme, when chr.ftiaii 
 Emperors did florifh,and u hach rt mnyned foe 
 a law and prehdenc euer fince fo al pul^eray, 
 Andifweioynethis with the cihtr oihes be- 
 fore fet downe in the fift chapter, which 
 Emperors and kings did make thcmfclues 
 (viKo their ecclcfiaftical Prelates^ arthe^rfiifi: 
 admi(ij6)about this poinr;vve fhouldlee ro- 
 thing was fo much refpcfted in admiiffion of a 
 princejOrGouernor (noronghtto be) as reli- 
 gion, for that ('as 1 haue faid be fore) this is the 
 chieftft5greattft5& hightlt ende, of eucry com- 
 jnon wealth , entended both by God andna- 
 ture^toaffift their fubieds to the aiteyningof 
 their fupei natural cnde, by honoring and fer- 
 uingGod in thislife^and by liuing vertuoufly, 
 for rharoihcrwileGod fhoold draw no other 
 frutc Oi commodity out of humane commoa 
 
 Yvcaithes 
 
212 A Cancer once touching fuccefton 
 
 vvcalthes,thcnofana(IembIy ofbrutifh crra- 
 cures, maynreyned only and gouerned for to 
 eacc drink and Hue in peace, as before hath bin 
 declared. 
 
 liovT But the end of man being far higher then 
 dTa*s followerh that whar«focuer prince or 
 
 vvant of ti^^ageftrate doth not attend with care to affift 
 iciigion and heipe hisfubiedsto this ende,omitteth the 
 gcftwtc*. fi^^ principal part of his charge, and com- 
 mittcth high trcafon againft his lord and ma- 
 fter, in whofe place he is, and confequently is 
 not fitt for that charge and dignity, though he 
 f hould pei forme the other two partes,neuer fo 
 vvel , of temporal iuftice and valor in his 
 perfon, which two other poynres do apper* 
 teyne principally to the humane felicity and 
 baferendeof mans wealepubliijue, and much 
 moreofachrillian. 
 tack of Heerof it infueth alfo that nothing in the 
 ^e^che- vvorld Can fo iurtly exclude an hcyre apparent 
 to^e^ra ^^^^ fucceflion , as want of religion , nor 
 a%retcn. ^"y ^3^^^ ^^^f ^^^'^^^^^ iuftifie and clcare the 
 confcienct of the commonwealth , or of par- 
 ticulermen, that in this cafe fhould refift his 
 entrance, as if they iudge him faulty in this 
 pointe,which is the head of al the reft, and for 
 which al the reft do ferue. 
 
 You do remember that before I compared 
 an heyre apparent vntoj a fpoufe, betrothed 
 Vide w. only and not yet marryed , to the common 
 J^^^-^j^*^^ wealth. Which efpoufalor betroihing,accor- 
 ^ ding to al law both diuine and humane , may 
 
 be broken 
 
t9 the cro'^m. T4rt i . C a p. I X. 215 
 
 he broken and made voyd much eafier and 
 vpponfar Itficr caufes then an adual perft(5t 
 varying may, of which our fauiour him- 
 fclfefaid. Quos Deus cmtunxit homo mn fefe^ Math. 14. 
 rat^ vvhomGo^harh ioyncd k|^xq4Tian fcpe- w^^^^'^*- 
 rate, and yet fainft Paulc to the Corinthians 
 dcicrnnineih playncly , thai if two gentiles 
 marryed together in iher gtntihty , (which ^-^^-^^ 
 roncdenyeth to be true mariage forfo tnuch 
 as concerncth the ciuil contra<^i:)and afterward 
 the one ofthc be ing made achnftia, iheoihec 
 vvil not hue with h'm or hei , or if he do, ye£ 
 not without blafphcmingrf God & tempting 
 him tofinne: in this cafe (I fay) the Apoftlc 
 tcacheth,and out of him the canon law fet* 
 teth it downe for a decree, that this is fufficict ^j^,^ 
 to break & diflohjc vticrly this heathc mariage, crct 
 although cofummaic betwene thefe two ^^^-^1^^^^ 
 ties, and that the chriftian may maryagaine, 
 and this only for the want of religion in the 
 otherparty, which being fo in adual mariage 
 alredy made and colurnmate, how much more 
 may it feiue to vndoe a bare b^rtroihing^ whic h 
 is the cafe of aprciendtionly toa crowne ^ as 
 before haih bin f hewed. 
 
 But you may fay peihnpps , that faind wlifthei 
 Pau'e fpeaketh of an infidel or heathen, ^^^^t^Tcl^^^ 
 denyeih Chrift playntly , and vvirh whom bcinfidc- 
 the other party cannot liue, without danger ^"y- 
 of finne and leefing his fayth, vvi ich is not 
 the cafe of a chriftian Prince though he be 
 fbmevvhat different ftom mc in religion, to 
 
 which 
 
2 T 4 A Conference touching fuccefton 
 
 which is anTwerd , that fuppofing rhei* is but 
 one only religion that can be true among chii- 
 ftians, as both reafonand Athanafushis Crede^ 
 doth pUynely rcarch vs: and morcouer (eing, 
 that to me t her can be no other fayrh or religio 
 auaylable for rhy faluation then only that 
 which I my felfe do beleeue/or that my cwne 
 contcience mnft teflifie for me, oragainft me: 
 certaineit is^that vnto me and my confciencc 
 he which in any pointe bcleeueth otherwife 
 then I doj a^jd ftandeth wilfully in the fame,is 
 anmfidel/orthathebeleuethnot that which 
 in my fayth and confcience , is the only and 
 folerruth, wherbv he mnft befaued. And if 
 our fauiourChtift him felfe in his gofpell, doth 
 vvil certayne men to be held for heathens, not ■ 
 fo much for difference in fayth and religion, as i 
 for lack of humility &obediccc to thechurch: 
 how much more may I hold him fo, that in my 
 opinion is an enimye to the truth , and confe 
 qnentlyfo long as I haue this opinion of him^ 
 albeit his religion were ncuer fo true, yet fa 
 long (I fay) as I haue this contrary per(walion 
 of him, I fhaldo againft my confcience and 
 finne damnably in the fight of God, to preferr : 
 him to a charge where he may draw many ; 
 other to his owne error and perdition, vvhcrih 
 Hovrhe^ I do perfwade my felfe that he rcmaytieth. 
 sgaynrt^ This doctrine /"which is common among 
 hisovvne all diuinesj is founded vppon that difcourte of 
 finrcth^ S. Panic to the Romans and Corinthians, 
 Rom. 14. againft fuchchriftians as being inuited to the 
 ft 10. banqetcs 
 
tothccYOTt^e. Tart i. Cap. IX. iij 
 
 banquetts and tables of gentiles and finding 
 meatesoffred to Idoles (which themfclues do 
 iudgcto be vnlawful toeaiej didyetcate the 
 fame^boih to the fcandal of ether infirme men 
 ther prefent^as alfo againft their owne iudgmet 
 andconfcience, which the Apfi^ftel faith was 
 a damnable finne, and this not for that the 
 thing in it felfe was euel or vnlawful^as he f he- 
 WCth,buiforthattheydidiudgeitfo, and yet 
 did the contrary. Qt^i difcerntt ft manducauerit, 
 ddmndm ejl, faith the Apoftle. He that difcer- 
 ncth or makcih a dijfference bciwene this meat 
 and othcrs,as judging this to be vnlawful! and 
 and yet cateth the fame, he is damned, that is 
 to fay hefinncth damnably or mottally.Wherof 
 the fame Apoftle yealdeth piefently this reafon. 
 Quianonexfidey fot that he eareth not according 
 to his faith or belecfe, bnt rather contrary, for 
 that he beleuing it to be euel and vnlawful, 
 doth notwithftanding care the fame, and heerc - 
 vppon S. Paul inferreih this vniuei fal propofi- 
 tion, Omneatitem quod non ejl ex fidepeccatum ejt, 
 al that is not of fayth or according to a mans Sce >pp$ 
 owne bcleefe , is finne to hym , for that it is 13^5 ^p^^^ 
 againft his owne colcience,iudgmcf & beleefe^ s.chii. ' 
 beleeuing one thine, and doine an other, and 
 lemg our owne conlciencemuft beourwitnes cpiftoia. 
 atrhelaftday, to condemne or dcliuervs, 
 before I haue faid , he muft needs finne gre-inhunc * 
 uoufty (or damnably as the Apoftle here faith) 
 Yvhocommictethany thing againft his owne 
 
 con- 
 
A 6 A Conference touching fuctepm 
 - confcience, though oihenvife the thing yVerc 
 not only indifferenc, but veiy good aUb in it 
 felfe,for that of the doers part ther v vanteih no 
 fnalice or wil to finnCjfcing he doth that which 
 heapprehcndeth to be naught, though i^ it 
 felfcic benot. ^\ 
 How da- * ^PP^y ^^^^ purpof^ fpjf' 
 
 grousto Ingland,and for the matter we hauc in hand, I 
 prctTn7cr^^^™^ and hold , that for any man to giue 
 of a con his helpe^confentotaffiftance towards the ma- 
 ^^^^y/*^^*' king ofa king, whom he iudgeih or beleueth 
 to be faultie in religion, & confequently would 
 aduance either no religion, or the wrong, if he 
 were iA authority, is amoftgreuousand dam- 
 nable finne to him that doth it, of what fide 
 foeuer the truth be,or how good or bad fo euer 
 the party be; that is preferred. For if S.Paul 
 haue pronounced fo abfolutely and playnly in 
 ihe place before alleagcd^ that euen in eating 
 ofapeece of meat, it is damnable for a man to 
 difcerneandyet toeate: what may wethinke 
 wil it be info great and important a matter, as 
 the making of a king is^ for a man to diffemblc 
 or do againft his owne confcience, & iudgmer, 
 ' that is to fay , to difcerne and iudge that he is 
 
 an infidel,or heritique,or wicked ma,or Aiheift 
 orerronensin religion, and yet to further his 
 aduanccment andgouerment ouer chriftians^ 
 wherhcfhalbeableto peruert infinite, and to 
 pnlldowne al honor &:(eruice dew vnto God. 
 and whether he do this euel afcciwards or no: 
 
 yet 
 
tothecrdim. TM i. Cap. IX. uy 
 
 yetfhal I be guyltie of al this, for that kno- 
 wing and perfuading my felfe, that he is hke^ 
 or indifpofition to do it^yetfur feare , flattery 
 carelefncs, kinred , emulation againft others^ 
 Vaine pretence of title, lacke of zeale to gods 
 caufe,or for other the like paflions or temporal 
 refpeds, I do fauour further or footh him in 
 his pretcceSjOr do not refift him, when it lyeth 
 in.my povver^by al which I doiuftlymake my 
 felfe^guyltie of al the euills, hurts, miferies 
 and calamities both temporal and fpiiritiial, 
 which afterward by his euel gouerment do 
 or may cnfew , for that I knowing him to 
 be fuch a one, didiiotwithftapding aflift his 
 promotion. 
 
 And thus much now for matter of cofcience, ^g^j^ft 
 bur if we confider reafon of ftate alfo, and wifdom 
 woidly poUicie, it cannot be bUr great folly ^ 
 ouerfighc for a man of what religioh foeuer he preferrc 
 be^topromotetoakingdome in which ^^^-^^^^q^^^. 
 felfe muft line, one of a contrary religion toryidigii 
 himfelfej for let the bargaines and agreements 
 be what they wil, and fayre promifes & vayne 
 hopes neuer fo great, yet feing the prince once 
 made and fetled , muft needes proceede accor- 
 ding to the principles of his owiie religion, it 
 followethalfochat he muft come quickly to 
 break with the other party ^ though before ht 
 loued hym neuer fo vvel , (which yer per- 
 bapps is ve!ry hard if not impoflible for two 
 of different religions to louefinceilyj but if it 
 
 were 
 
ai8 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 were fo, yet fo many ielofiesjfufpitions, accu- 
 fations , calumniations and other aucrfions 
 muft needes light vppon the party that is of 
 different religion from the Hate and Prince, 
 vnder whom he liuet h, as not only he canoe be 
 capable of fuch preferments, honors,charges, 
 gouerments, and the like which men may de- 
 ferue and defyer in their commo wealthes, but 
 alfo he f halbe in continual danger and fubiecSt 
 to a thoufand moleftations and iniuries, which 
 areincident to the condition and (tare of him, 
 that is not currant whith the courfe of his 
 prince and realmc in matters of religion, and 
 ib before he beware, hebecommeih to beac- 
 comptcd an enimyeor backward man , which 
 to remedy he muft ether dilfcmble deeply , and 
 againft his ovvne confciencc make f hew to fa- 
 uourandlet forward that which in his hart he 
 doihdeteft('vvhich isthe greattft calamitie & 
 niifcryofal other, though yet many lymcs not 
 fufficient to deliuer him from (bfpition) or els 
 to auoyd this cuerlafting perdition , he muft 
 break withal the temporal commodityes of 
 this life, and leaue the ben jfits v\ hich his coun- 
 trey and realme might yeld him,and this is the 
 ordinary end ofal fuch men, how fofc& fweet 
 foeuer the beginnings be 
 The con- And thcrfore to conclude at length , al this 
 ofOic'* tedious fpeech (vvherwnih I feare me I haue 
 whole wearied you againft my wil; feeing iher be fo 
 ^ecch. great inconucnienccs and dangers both tem- 
 poral 
 
tothecrol^ne. Vart i. Cap. IX. 219 
 poral and eternal, andiin refpe<5t both of God 
 and man^of body and foulc, as hathe bin decia-* 
 redjto aduance a prince of contrary religion, to 
 the crowne.arid cofidering that in Ingland ther 
 is fo great dincrfitie of religions, as the world 
 knovveth, bcrweene thefe parties and facSlions, 
 that haue to pretende or admirt the next prince 
 after her Maieftie that now is : calling to mynd 
 alfo rhe great liberty, fcope , and authority 
 which the common wealth hath in admitting 
 or reieding the pretenders vpon dew confide- 
 rations be ther right of facceflion neuer fo 
 playneor deare, as before hath bin fhcw^ed: 
 and laying finally before our eyes the manifold 
 and different adl:es,of chriftiam realmes, before 
 mentioned in this affaire, al ihes things (\ fay) 
 being layd tognher,* you may (ec whether I 
 had reafon at the beginning , to thinke and 
 affirme,that it was a doubifulcafe who fhould 
 be our next prince after the Queenes Maieftie 
 that now fitteth at the fterne,and if beyond and 
 aboue al this that I hauefaid , our frend the 
 common lawyer hcere prefcnt, f hal proue alfo 
 Cas at the firft cnjterance he promifed)that amog 
 fuch as do or may pretend of the blood royal at 
 this daye, their true fucceflion and next pro- 
 pinquity by birth is alfoincerrayne anddifpu- 
 table, then is the manci madether-by muxrh 
 more ambigious,and God only l<rcv\liWho 
 fhal preuaile, and to him only is the matter 
 to be commcudedj as far, as I fee, and with 
 
 } this 
 
xio A CmferencemcJmjg fuccefton, &c. 
 this I make an endc , thanking you moft 
 liartely for your patience , and crauing par- 
 don for that I haue bin ouer long, or for 
 any other fault that in this (peach 
 I haue committed, 
 
 FINIS, 
 
THE PREFACE 
 
 OF THE SECOND 
 PARTE. 
 
 THE Cmlun had no fooner ended hU 
 difcourfe , but al the company being 
 moftdefirom to here vohat the tempo- 
 ral lavpyer had prepared to fay ^ about 
 the feueral titles oft he prefent pretendors to 
 the crovone oflngland^ began wth one accord 
 to requefl himearneftly for the performance 
 of his promifed ffeach in that behalfe ^ vsho 
 fhevoing himfelfe nether vnvoilling norvn^ 
 ready for the fame, told them^ that he rvas con- 
 tent to yeald to their defyers , but yet voith one 
 condition ^vphichvi>^ u that he x^ould take in 
 hand this matter voith the fame afeueration 
 andproteHation y wth the Ciuilian in fome 
 cccafionshad "vfed before him y and it liked a^ltn of 
 him vpel^ to voit, that hauing to fpeak in this ^^^^ll 
 difcourfe of many princes ^peeres , and nobles 
 of the royal blood of Ingland (to al vphich by 
 mo of nit we equity andreafin he faid that 
 
 he bare 
 
THE PREFACE 
 
 he hare Yeuerent honor and ref^e5t ) And to dif- 
 cuj?c their feueral pretentions yrighteSyintere-- 
 Jles and titles tothecrovpne^he [aid y that hu 
 meaning vo^^to off id, hurt -or preiudice none: 
 vor to deter my ne any thing re jointly in fauor 
 or hinder mce of any oft heir pretences or clay^ 
 tnes, ofv^hat fide,family,fa5iion^ religion y or 
 ether party foeuer he or J he xcere^ hut rather 
 flaynly and indifferently soithout hatred or 
 partial affection > to or againjl any y to lay 
 do^nejtncerly vohathehadhard or reade, or 
 of bimfelfe conceaued^ that might iulUy he aU 
 leaged in fauour or disfatiour ofeuery tytler. 
 
 And fo much the rather he [aid that he vpould 
 do thiSy for that in very truth the Ciuilians 
 fpeech had put him in a ^eat indifferecy^^ con- 
 Why the cerntng matter offuccefsw, had takeout of 
 dlL"^' /^^ head many fcrupulofttes about nyfe points of 
 wync of neernes in hloodjoj the many examples rea- 
 titic.^^^ fonsthat he hadalleagedof the proceeding of 
 ChriHian comon voealthes inthis affayre^pre- 
 ferrtng oftentymes him that xva^ further of in 
 hlood,vppon other cofideratios of more xvaight 
 i importance, which point feemed to him to 
 hauebtn fo euidently proued ^ as no man can 
 deny it & much leffecodene the fame^ voithout 
 the mouenieces before a/kaged& metioned, 
 
 of calling 
 
OF THE n. PART. 
 
 cfc ailing al in doubt that mvp is ejlahlifhed in 
 the rvorld, confidcring th^t mt only forainc^ 
 countries y hut Ingladalfoitfelfe fo often hith 
 'vfed the fame putting hack the next tn hloodc* 
 VVherfore he [aid, that for oi much a^s com- 
 tnonvoealthes.andtheconfent.vpil, and deftre 
 cfeach realme wa^ proued to haue high and 
 foueraine authority in thU affltyre , a}7d that 
 as on the one ftde.nerenes of blood vvas to be re* 
 fpelfedfo on the other ^ ther related net fundrj 
 considerations circumftaces of as great mo- 
 ment as this, or rather greater Jor that ofien^ 
 tjmes thefe conjiderations had bin preferred 
 before neernes of hlood.as hath byn declared^ 
 Ida not knovo quoth he, who of the pretenders 
 may next ohteyne the garland^vphat foeuer his 
 right by propinquity be,fohe haue f me (as I 
 thinke alhaue that do pretend) and ther fore I 
 meane not to fand vppon the iufiificat 'ton or 
 impugning of tny one titlejout rath er to leaue 
 al to God and to them^ that muflone day try 
 iudge the fame in Inglad,to vohome Ifuppofe 
 thu fpeech ofmyne, can not be but grateful 
 commodious for the better vnderfanding(^ 
 \ dtfccrningof thofe matter s ;^her of of nece fit j 
 er it belonge they mujl be iudges vmpireSy 
 vphen God fbal appoint , and confequently 
 £lj for them 
 
THE PREFACE OF THE 11. PART. 
 
 for them to he igmmnt or v^aquamted vs>ith 
 the fame {as men fay that commonly mofi in 
 Jngland at this day are ) cannot he hut very in* 
 conuenient and danger om . 
 
 In this manner he Jpake, and after this he 
 began his difcourfe, fetting doxpne firft ofal 
 thefundryhookes and treati/esr^hich he vn- 
 Aer flood had bin made or voritten hitherto af 
 thisafaire^* 
 
 OF THE 
 
I 
 
 OF tVie divers 
 
 AND TREATISES 
 
 THAT HAVE BIN WRITTEN 
 lomtofore about the titles of fuchas petjvd ra 
 thecroT^ne of Ingland,and 'J^hatthey do 
 contej/ne tn fatiour or dtsfmour of 
 fundrypreteudors. 
 
 Cap. I. 
 
 C c o R p I N G to the variety 
 of mens iudgments and afFe-» 
 dions in this behalfe y Co faid 
 the lawyer , that diuers had 
 written diuerfly in lundry 
 _ _ — bookes & treatifes that had 
 
 come to hghr, & went among men fro hand to 
 hand though al were not printed. And firft of al 
 he faid, that not long after her maiefties com- 
 mingtothecrowne, therappeered a certaync 
 boo ke written in the fauour of the houfe of 
 SufFoike^andefpeciallyof tlie children of the 
 Earle of Hartford by the Lady Catheiin Gray^rhcbook 
 which booke offended highly the Queenc and 
 nobles of Ingland and was afterwards found Nicholas 
 to be written by one Hales furnamed of ^he^^^on. 
 cIubbfoote,vvhowasclarkeofthe hamper, & 
 $ir Nicholas Bacon then tord keeper was pre- 
 
 fuined 
 
a A Confaence touching fuccefwn 
 fumedalfotohauchad a principal part in the 
 lame, for which he was like to haue loft his 
 office, if Sir Antony Browne that had bin 
 chcef iudge of the comon pleas in Queene Ma- 
 ries tym? would haue accepted therof, when 
 her M^ieftie ofFc ed the (ame vnto him, and my 
 Lord of Lecefter earncftly exhorted him to take 
 ir,but he refiifcd it for that he was of difFerct re- 
 ligion from the ftate, and fo Sir Nicholas Baco 
 remayned with the fame at the great inftancc 
 of Sir Wilham Cecill now Lord TrcaforerjWho 
 though he were thought to be priuy alfo to 
 thefaid booke, yet was the matter fo wifely 
 laid vppon Hales and Bacon^as Sir William was 
 kept free, therbyto haue the more authority 
 and grace to procure the others pardon , as he 
 did • 
 
 The but The bent and butt of this book , was ( as I 
 of Hales hauefaid) topreferrthetirleof the Lady Ca- 
 ^ thcrin Gray daughter of the Lady frauncis 
 Duches of Suffolk which Frauncis was daugh- 
 ter to Mary the yonger daughter of King Henry 
 the.feucnth, before the title of the Queene of 
 Scotts then lining &:of her fonne, which were 
 difcendedofLady Margeret cldeft daughter of 
 the faid king Hery. And the reafons which this ! 
 book did alleage for the fame were principally 
 Fifft rca-t^o^jhefirft.ihatthelawesof Inglanddid not 
 admittany fttainger or allien to inherit in In-J 
 gland.to wit, any fuch as were borne out of 
 ihealleageancc of our realme (for fo are the 
 wordcs of the law) and for that the Queenej 
 
 ofScotti 
 
u the cr^Dpne. Vdrt i. Cap. I. 
 
 ofScottsand her fonnc are knownc ro be (o 
 borne, iherforethey could not fucceed, and 
 confcquently that the houfe of SufFolck des- 
 cended of the feconddaughter^muft enter in 
 ther place. 
 
 Thefccond reafon is , for that ther isgiuen ^.^^^n 
 authority to king Hery the eight by two (eue- 
 raladlsofparlamentinihe 28. and yearcof 
 i his reigne to difpofe of the fuccefljon by his 
 ' laft will & teftamentj as he f hould think bell^ 
 among thofe of his kinrcd that did pretend 
 I after his children, and that the (aid king accor- 
 ' ding tohiscommiflion, did ordeynerhai if his 
 ^ owne children did dye without iflue, then the 
 [ of-fpringof his yonger (ifter Mary that were 
 ^ borne in Ingland fhould be preferred before 
 I thcilTueofthe elder that was Margaret mar- 
 i ryed into Scotland, and this was the efFeil^of 
 I this firft book. 
 
 I Againft this booke were vvryten two other ^^^^ 
 f fooneafter,ihe firft by one Morgan a diutnc (\f bookc o< 
 \ I remember vvel) (bme tymes fellow of Oriel ^j^^ 
 I College in Oxford, a man of good accompt for mdgc 
 learningcamonge thofe that knewhym, & he^^^^'**^* 
 was thought be haue written the faide book, 
 by the aduife and affiftance of the forfaidc . 
 ludge Browne, which thinge is made the more 
 credible^by the many authorites of our comoa 
 lawvvhichrherin arc alleaged,and the partes 
 of this booke (if I forget norj were three , or 
 rather they v\ ere three bookes of onctreatile, 
 the firft wheruf dyd take vppon it to cleare the 
 
 faide 
 
4 A Ccnferenee touching fuccepon 
 
 faideQueene of Scottesfot the murder of the 
 lord Datly her huf band , which by many was 
 laydeagainft her. And the fecondedyd handle 
 her cycle to the crowne of Ingland : and the 
 third dyd an(vver the booke of Ihon Knox the 
 Scott, intituled yagainjl the monjlfmus gouerntent 
 cflt^omen, Of^l which three pointes, for that 
 thefecond that conferneih the tytle, is that 
 which properly appertayneih CO out purpofe, 
 and for that the fame is handled agayne and 
 more largely in chefecond booke fee out not 
 longe after by Ihon lefley lord bifhopeof Rode 
 in Scotland, who at that tyme was Embalfai 
 dor for the (aide Qoeene of Scottes in Ingland, 
 and handled the fame matter more abundantly 
 which M.Morgan had donne before hym, I 
 fhalfaye no more ofchis booke of M. Morgan^ 
 but fhal palle ouer to that of the bifhopc, 
 which in this point of fucccllion conteyneth 
 alfo what foeuer the other hatKjfo as by decla- 
 ring the contentcs of the one we fhal come 
 alio to fee what is in the other. 
 
 The intent then of this book of the bifhopC 
 of Rode, is to refute the other booke of Hales 
 and Bacon,and that efpecially in the two points 
 before mentioned , which they alleaged for 
 their principles, to w itt , about forrayne birth, 
 Anfvv r ^" ^ ^^"8 ^^"^^^^^ teftament. And agciinft the 
 to"Jie^x. firftof thefe two poinces thebifhop all^ageth 
 icafon. many proofcs that ther is no fuch maxima in 
 the comon lawcs of Inglaod to difherit a prince 
 borne out ofthc land from his or her right of 
 
 fucccdion^ 
 
td the croT^ne. Vart i. C a p. 1 . 5 
 fucceflion, that they haue by blood. And this 
 firft, for that the ftatuie made for barring of aL 
 liensto inherit in Ingland (which was in the 
 a J. yeare of the reignc of king Edward the 
 ihirdj is only to be vnderftood of particulcr 
 mens inheritance,and no waves ro be extended 
 tothefucceffion ofthe crowne, as by compa- 
 rifonof many other hke cafes is declared: and 
 fecondly for that ther is exprefle exception in 
 the fame ftatute of the kings children and of 
 fpringrand thirdly for that the pradifc hath aU 
 Wayes bin contrary both before and after the 
 " conqueft, to wit that diuers princes borne out 
 of the realme haue fucceded. 
 
 The other principle alfo concerning king^^ 
 Henryes teftament^the bifhop impugncth^firft^-tcafon. 
 by diuers reafons & incongruities wherby it 
 may be prefumed that king Henry neuer made 
 any fuch teftament J and ifhe did, )et could it 
 not hold in law. And fecondly alfo by witncs 
 of the Lord Paget that was of the pruiy counccl 
 in thofe dayes^Sc of Sir Edward Motitague lord 
 chiefc iuftice^and of one William Clark that 
 fet the kings (lamp to the writing, al which 
 auowed before thecouncel and parlament in 
 Qucene Maryes lyme , that the faid teftament 
 was figned after the king was paft fenfc and 
 memory. 
 
 And finally the faid bifhop concludcth that 
 the line cf Scotland is the next euery way, both 
 in refpedof the houfe of Lancafter^and aUo of 
 York /or that they are next heyjres to K.Henry 
 
 the 
 
^ A Conference touching fuccefton 
 
 the eight, who by his fiihervvas heyre ro the 
 houfeofLancafter, and by his mother to the 
 houfcofyoik. 
 Heghing- Bur afcci rhefe three bookes, was written a 
 boilc f^^^^h, by one Robart Highhnon fecretary in 
 lycnepaft tothe Earle of Northumbeiland , a 
 man wel read in ftorycs and efpecially of our 
 coucrey,who is (aid to be dead Ibme yearcs paft 
 in Paris.This man impugneth al ihree former 
 bookesin diucrs principal points and drawerh 
 the crowne from both their pretendors , I 
 meanc as wel from the houfe of Scotland as 
 from that of Su{Folk,and firft againft the booke 
 of Hales and Sir Nicholas Bacon, writen (as 
 hath bin faid) in fauour of the houfe of Suf- 
 folk Heghington holdeth with the Bif hop and 
 Morgan that thes two principles layd by the 
 other, of forayne biitb,and of king Henries te- 
 ftamcnt againft the Scotif h hne , are of no Va- 
 Iidity,as nether iher reafons for legittimating of 
 the Earle of Hartfoids children^vvhich after- 
 ward fhalbe handled. 
 
 A nd fecondly he is againft bothe Morgan & 
 thcBifhop of Rofic alio ip diuers important 
 . points, and in the very principal of al , for that 
 this man ("Imeane HighingtonJ maketh the 
 king of Spayne to be the next and moft righful 
 pretender by the houfe of Lancafter, for proofir 
 y vherof he holdeih firft that king Henry the 7. 
 had no title in deede to the crowne by iacafter, 
 butonlyby the houfe of York, thatis to faye, 
 by his marriage of Queenc Elizabeth elder 
 
 dau^httj 
 
Uthecrtlipne. Tart i. Cap. II. 7 
 daughrcr CO king Edward the fourth , for that 
 albeit himfelfe were difcended by his mother 
 from lohn of Gaunt duke of Lancafter, yet 
 this was but by his thfrd wife Catherin Swyn- 
 ford,and that the true hey res of Blanch his firft 
 wife duches and heyreof Lacafter (to whom 
 fayth he appcrreyned only the fuccelTio after 
 the death of king Henry the fixth, and his 
 fonne,with whom ended the hne male of that 
 houfe) remayned only in Portugal by the ma- 
 nage of Lady Phillip , daughterof thcforefaid 
 Blanch, (okingelhbn the firft of Portugal, & 
 that for as much as king Phillip of Soaine faith 
 this man^hath now focceded to al the righte of 
 the kings of Portugal, to him appertayneth 
 nlfOjihe only right (ucccffion of the houfe of 
 Lancaftcr,and that al the other difcendents of 
 king Henry they, are to pretend only by the 
 title of Yorke, I meane afwel the line of Scot- 
 land as alfo of Suffolk and Huntington, for 
 that in the houfe of Lancafter king Phillip is 
 cuidently before them al. 
 
 Thus holdeth Heghington,aIlcaginge di- 
 ucrs (lories arguments and probabilities for 
 the fame,& then adioyncth tw o other propo* 
 fitions, which do importemoftof al, to wit, 
 that the title ofthe houfe of Lancafter was far 
 better,then that of York, not for that Edmond 
 Crokback firft founder ofthe houfe of Lanca- 
 fter, who was fonnc to king Henry the third 
 and brother to king Edward the firft , was 
 cldeft to the faid Edward and iniuriouftv put 
 
 R back 
 
8 A Conference touching fuccef tort 
 back for his deformity in body,as both the faicl 
 Gfor^c^ bjfhopcf Roirc and George Lylly., do falfly 
 fin/t'pir. ho!d,andthismanrcfuteth byimany goodrar- 
 chronic. gumcnis, but for that lohn of Gaunt Dukc of 
 Lancafter being the eldcft (onne that King 
 Edward the third had a liue when he dyed^ 
 fhould in right hauc lucceded in the crowne 
 as this man holdeth,and i hculd haue bin pre- 
 ferred before Richard the fecond that was the 
 blackprincesfonne, who was a degree fur- 
 ther of from king Edward the third his grand- 
 father, then was lohn ofGaunt,to whom king 
 Edward was father, and by this occafion this 
 man cometh todilcufTeat large the opinions 
 of the lawyers, whether the vncle or the ne- 
 phew (hou Id be preferred in the fuccefTion of 
 a crowne,to vvit,vvhether the yonger brother 
 or the elder brothers (onne, if his father be 
 dead without being feafed of the fame(whicli 
 isapoint that inthe ciuil law hath great dif- 
 putationand manygrear authors on each fide 
 as this man fheweth j and the matter alfo wan- 
 teth not examples on both paries inthe fuc- 
 ceffion of diuers Inglif h kings,as our frend the 
 ciuil lawyer did fignifie alfo in his difcour[e,& 
 vye may chance to hauc occafion to handle 
 the rameagayhe,and more largely heerafter* 
 
 Thefe poynres toucheth Highinro thoughe 
 diuers other heleaue vntouched,vvhich are of 
 much importacefortherefolufion,as whether 
 after the lyne extinguifhed of kinge Henry the 
 4. which was the cldeft fonnc of Ihon of 
 
 Gant 
 
U the'crol^ne. Part 1. Cap. I. 9 
 Cant, ther fhould haue entered the line of 
 lady Philippe the eldeft daughter lawfully be- 
 gotten of Blanch firft wyfe of Ihon of Gant^or Sundry 
 els the race of Ihon Enieof Somerfett yonger y/^*^ 
 fonne by his third wyfe, which then was bafc 
 borne, but legetimated by parlament, for of 
 Ph illip dd come the kinges of Portugal, and of 
 Ihon came king Henry the feuenth. And 
 againethefepointeshad byn to be difputed as 
 vvel touching the fucceilion to the dukedom 
 of Lancafter alone ^ as alfo to the crowne 
 * ioyntely,all which article's fhal feucrallyafter- 
 w^ard be handled in ther places^ and thus much 
 ofthisbooke. 
 
 More then thefe fower bookes , I haue not Diucr* 
 fcene vvirtcn of his affaire, though I haue hard ^^^^^J^^^ 
 ofone made in Flanders in the behalfe of thcpam- 
 DukeofParma,that isnow, who by his mo- P^^^^* 
 therdiicendeth of the fame line of Portugal^' 
 that the king of Spaine doth J and as this book 
 pretendeth fifwerefped: the ordinary courfe 
 of Inglifh lawes in particuler mens inheri-^ 
 ranees) he is to be preferred before the faij 
 king,or any other of the howfe of Portugal fot 
 that his mother defcended of the yonger 
 fonne, and the king of the dderdaughter , of 
 the king of Portugal : and albeit according to 
 the law of Port ugal the king was adiuged next 
 heyre to that crowne, yet fay they by our 
 lawes of Ingland he cannot be, which after 
 muftbc examined. 
 
 Thus fayth that book , and he alleageth 
 R 1 many 
 
10 A Cmferencetmhlngfuccepon 
 many reafons for the fame , as it haih bin toM 
 tne(forasIfaidIneuercamc tohaue a viewc 
 of the whole baoke) but diuers of his argu- 
 ments I haue feenelaid together, which I i hal 
 afterwards in place conuenient alleage vnro 
 you , with the anfwcrs ccnfurcs and replies 
 that the contrary parties do make therunto. 
 
 Diners other papers notes and memories I 
 haucfecnealfo (faid he) as wel touching the 
 fucceffionof thofe whom I hauenamed asof 
 Sir Bi- othcrSjfor that Syr Richard ShelljfVKho dyed fomc 
 sh\t yc^f^s ^ g^"^ Venice^, by the name of Lord ^ 
 prior of S.Iohns of Ingland, had gathered 
 diuers points touching thefeafFayres: & many 
 Franc Pc- ^^^^ ^^^^^ M.Francis Peto that dyed in 
 
 tQ. Millan,and was a vety curious and wel readen 
 man in genealogies, as may appeare by fundry 
 papers that I haue feeneof his. Their want not 
 alio diuers in Inglad who haue trauailed much 
 in this bufines, and I haue had the perufing of 
 fome of their labors, though I dare not dif- 
 coucr ther names left thcrby I fhould hurt 
 ihcm, which were not conuenient. But one 
 great trouble finde I in them al,that cuery man 
 feeketh to draw the whole water vnto his 
 ownc mill, and to make that title alwayes 
 moftclere^whomhemoft fauoreth , and this 
 with lo great probability of reafon and autho- 
 rity many ty mes, as it js hard to retayne a mas 
 confcnt from that which is faid, vntil he haue 
 read the reafons of the other party', and this 
 alio is a great proofe 3 of the wonderful ambi. 
 
 guity 
 
to the cfd^m. Tdrt i. C A p. 11. 1 1 
 
 biguity and doubtfulncs which in this moft 
 imporcant affaire is to be founde. 
 
 And by the way alio I had almoft 
 totelyou,howrhatoflateI haue lighted vppoiialfcof 
 accrraynenewdircourfeandtrearile, made intlieinftta 
 the behalfe of the king of Spaines cldeft^ 
 daughter, whom he had by his wife, Ifabel the 
 eldelVfilhrpf chelaft king of France, which 
 Ifabel and her daughter the infanta of Spaine 
 called alfo Ifabel,are prefumed to be the lawful 
 ^jeyrcs to the (late of Britany,and to al other 
 ftates that by that meanesofBritany or other- 
 wife by women haue come to France, or haue 
 or may fal vppon a woman of the houfe of 
 France,as the ftates of Ingland and other ftates 
 therunto annexed may,for that they follow not 
 the law falique of France, and fo this treanfc 
 proueth thacby diuers vvayes and for fundry 
 confiderations, this princeifeof Spaine is alfo 
 ofthe blood royal of Ingland, and may among 
 others be intituled to that crowne , by a parti* 
 culer title of her ov\ ne , befide the pretence 
 which her father the king or her brother the 
 prince ofSpayne haue for them felues, by the 
 houfe of Porti]gal,al which rcafons and con* 
 {ideratios Ifhalalleage afterward in ther place 
 & tyme, or at Icaft-wifc the chiefe& principal 
 of them. 
 
 And to the end they may be vndeiftoode 
 the better, as alfo the clearncs and pretentions 
 of al the reft that haue intereft in thisaffayre, I 
 fhalfirft of al for a beginning and foundatioi> 
 
 R 5 toal 
 
I t A Conference mchlng fuccefiom 
 to al the reft that Thai or may be Ipokeii heer- 
 after, fee downe by way of hiftorical narration^ 
 al ihe dilcents of our Inglifh kings and pre- 
 tenders ihar maye important lo this bur purr 
 
 Eofe,from iheconqucft vnto our tyme,vvhicb 
 eingcopared with the tree it fclfe ofgcnealoip 
 gies that f halbc added.in the end of^ this confer 
 rence,vvil make the matter more playne and 
 plea fant to the reader^ 
 
 OF THE SVCCESSION 
 
 OF THE CROWiME OF ING- 
 
 f.AND PROM THB CON QJ^ EST V N T Q 
 
 the tyme of king Edi^ard the thtrd,Ti^ith the begins 
 nmg of three prm'ifallinages of the Enghfh 
 , blood TojfAlydifper fid into the houfes'of 
 
 J^ritameLancaflcrand 
 
 Cap. II- 
 
 Difcent "^TO man is ignorant faid the lawyer how 
 hamthc William the Conqueror came to the 
 
 conquc. crownc of Ingland, which was in deed by 
 dyne Qf fword, though he pretended that he 
 was chofen by the will and telhment of king 
 Edward the confcffor. But howfoeucr this 
 Wcaie,his pofterity hath indured vntil this day 
 and two and twenty princes of his race hauc 
 vvornc the Inglifh cr»3Wiie after him , for the 
 fpace of more then y^hundreih yearcs,and how 
 many more may yet do the fame, God only 
 kuoweih: but if vvc follow probability » wc 
 ( cannot 
 
u the ao^ne. Tart i. C a p. I T. i } 
 cannorvvant of chem, (cing his blood is fo di- 
 perfcd ouer the world ac this day^as by this de- 
 claration enfewing vvil appeare. 
 
 This king William according to Polidor The chll. 
 and other chronicles of Ingland , had by his 
 vvyf Mathilda daughter of Baldwin Earle ofqucrot. 
 Flanders/ourcfonnes, and fiue daughters^ his p^jj^ j ^ 
 eldeftfonne was Robert whom he Itfc duke in fincj 
 of Normandie, who was afterward depriued^^.^^^^^'^ 
 of that dukedomeby his yonger and fowerthiui 
 brother Henry , wh<^n he came to be king of 
 Ingland. His lecond fonne was Richard that 
 dyed in his youth, hisrhirdwas VVjlliam, (ur- 
 named Rufus, for that he was of redd heare, 
 and the fowerth was Henrv, which two laft* 
 fonncs, were both kings of England^onc after 
 theorher,asthe world knoweih^bv the names 
 of WjHiam the fecond^and Henry the firft. 
 
 The Conquerors daughters were firft Cc- 
 cilie that was a Nonne, and the fecond Con- 
 ftanria that was marryed to Alayn, furnamed 
 fcrgantduke of Britanic, and the thiid was 
 Adelaor Alis marryed to Stephen countie Pl- 
 latineof Bloys, Champagne, and Charrres in 
 France,and the other two Poiidor faith, dyed 
 before they were marryed, and To their names 
 were not recorded. 
 
 ^* Thefc arc the children of king William the Thcmu 
 Conqueror, among whom after his death iher Series of 
 was much ftrife about the fucceffion; For firft b jlr and' 
 his eldeftfonne duke Robert, who by order 
 Df anccftric by birthc f hould hauc fuccede'd 
 
 R 4 himjn 
 
14 A Conference touching fuccefm^ 
 him in al his eftares, was put back, firftfrom 
 thekingdomeoflnglaiidjby his third brother 
 WiUiam Rufas, vppon a pretence of^the Con- 
 querors vvil and teitament , for pciticuler affe- 
 ction that he had to this his faid third fonnc 
 William, though as Stow writerh, almoft al 
 Stow In the nobility of Inglande were againfl: Willias 
 P^"^' entrance. But in the end agreement was made 
 between the two brothers , withe condition 
 that if William fhould dye without ilfue, then 
 that Robert fhould fucced him, and to this ac- 
 cord, both tiie princes themfelues, and tweluc 
 principal pecrcs ofech (idevvere fworne, but 
 yet after when William dyed without ilTuc, 
 this was not obferued, but Henry the fourth 
 fbnnecntred, anddepriued Robert, not only 
 of this his fucceflion to Ingland, but alio of his 
 dukedome of Normandic,that he had enioyed 
 peaceably before, al the tyme of his brother 
 Rufus, and moreoutr he tokehim prifoner Sc 
 fo caryed him into Ingland, and ther kept him 
 vntil his death,which happened in the caftle of 
 Cardif in theyeare 1134. 
 William And whereas this Duke Robert had a 
 
 ^ukcRo g^^^b'P^^"^^^^ ^^"^^^ lonne named William, 
 btiu who was duke of Normandy by his father, & 
 earle of Flanders in the right of his grand mo- 
 ther, that was the Coquciors wife, & daughter 
 of Baldwin Eavlc of Flanders as haihbin faid, 
 and vvaseftabiirhedinboth ihefeftatesby the 
 hclpofLewysthe<5.furnamcdic gros king of 
 Francc,and adiiiitted to do homage to hy m for 
 
 the 
 
t^thetro^ne. Van i. Cap. II. ij 
 
 the faide ftatcs,his vncle king Henry of Englad 
 Nvas fo violent againft him, as firll: he draue him 
 out oftheftate of Normandy, andfecondly he 
 let vp and maynteyned a competitor or two 
 againft him in Flanders, by whomc finally he 
 was flainein the year^ of Chfift i iiS . beforc^^j^^^ ^ 
 the towneof Aloft, by an arrow » after he had cap.42/ 
 gotten the vpper hand m thefeild,and (o ended 
 theraccofihefirft fonne of king William the 
 Qonqueror, to wit of duke Robert, which 
 Robert lined after the death of his faide fonne 
 and heyre duke VVilham , fix yeares in prifba 
 inthecaftelof Cardife and pyned away with 
 forrow and mirerie,as both the Frencheand 
 IngUfhe hiftories do agree. 
 
 The fecond fonne of the Conqueror named 
 Richardjdyed as before haih bin fayde,in his fa*, 
 thers ty me, and left no iflue at alas did neither 
 the third fo.nCjWilIia Rufus,though he reigned ^^^^ 
 13. yeares after his fatherrhc ConqueroV, in vvuiiam 
 which lyme heeftabhfhcd the fucccffioofthe ^*"^*- 
 crowne by confent of the ftates of Ingland to 
 his elder brother duke Rqberts iftue, as hath i 
 bin faide,ihough afterward it wasnotobferued. 
 
 This Kinge Rufus came to the crowne prin* 
 cipally by the help and fauour of Lanfranm 
 Archbifhop of Canterbury, who greatly repea- 
 ted himfelfe afterward of the error which in 
 that point he had commitced,v pp5hopeof his 
 good gouerment which proued extrecme euel. 
 
 But this king William Rufus being flayne 
 afterward by the crrorofacrofbcw^, in ncw- 
 
 R ) foreft 
 
j6 A Conference touching fuccefton 
 foreft asis vvelknowne, and thisat fuch tymc 
 as theforefaid duke Robert his elder biothec 
 ( to whom the ciovvne by fucccflion appartey- 
 nedj wasabfentin thevvarr of the holy land, 
 vvher (according as mod authors do writ} he 
 Tanri- vvaschofen king of Hicrufaleir., but refufed 
 jnottaLiit vppon hope of the kingdome of Ingland. 
 acl moa. returning home,foude that his fuyverth 
 
 do. brorherHcnry , partly by fayrepromifes, and 
 partly by force had inuaded the crowne,in the 
 yeare i lOo. and fo he reygned jf.yeares, and 
 had iffuediuers Tonnes and daughters , but al 
 were eitherdrowned in the feas comming out 
 f^^ff ' ofNormandie , or els dyed othcrwife before 
 Hcaiicii. their father, except only Marhildis who was 
 firft marryed to Henry the Emperor, fife of 
 that name, and after his death without ifTue, to 
 Geffrey Platagenet duke of Anjow, Touray ne, 
 andMaynein France^by whom ihe had Henry 
 vvhich reigned after king Stephen^by the name 
 of Henry the fecond, and thus mu'cli of the 
 fonnes of William the Conqueror. 
 Thc^ Of his twodaugtiters that lyuedro be ma- 
 faoufcof ryedandhad iirae,the elder named Conftnncc 
 by"t^jeL> maryed to Alayn fergat duke of Britanie, 
 elder who was fonne to Hoel earle of Nantes , and 
 fftwc"^ was mide duke of Britanieby William Co- 
 Couquc- querors meanes, irt manner follovviug, 
 Bcifor.f.j Otike Robert of Normandy fa'th-er to the 
 pig 423. Cbhqueror, vvhc'nhewent in pilgrimage vnto 
 rhcholyland (in vvhich voyage he dyedy left 
 forgoucrnour of ^Kormand/, vnder the pro- 
 
 tediou 
 
uthtm^ne. ?dYt 2. Cap. IL 17 
 tei^ion of king Henry the firrt of fran ce, duke 
 Aliiyne the fiill of Bncanie, which Allayn 
 bad iflue Conan the firft,vvho being a ftirringc 
 prince of about 14. yeares old v\hen duke 
 William began 10 treat of pafling ouer into 
 Ingland , he fhewed himfelfe not to fjuour 
 'much that entcrpnfe , which duke William ^^^^^ 
 fearing , cauTed him to be poyfoned with a Duke of 
 payr« of perfumed gloucSjas rh^ French ftorics Botanic 
 do report, and caufcd to be fet vp in his place ^yvvii- 
 add made duke, one Hoel earle of N^iotcs, i^an^Coa 
 who to gratifie William fent his fonne Alaine ^^^^^ 
 furnamed Fcrgant wirh jcoo, fouldiars to palle 
 £>uer into Ingland with him, and fo he did J Sc 
 William afterward in recompece heer-of gauc 
 him hiseldeftdaughterConftantiain mariage 
 with the earldome of Richmond , by whom 
 hchadilFue Conan the fecond, (urnamed le 
 groswhohad ilFuea fonne and a daughter. 
 The fonne was called Hoel, as his grand father 
 Was, and the daughters name was Bertha mar^ 
 ryed to Eudo EarieofPoihet in Normandy , & g^j^^^ j 
 for that this duke Conan , hkcd belter hiscap.iz. 
 daughter and his fonne in law her huf band ^"^^^^V 
 then he did Hoel his owne fonne, he diiauo-nic dio. 
 wed him in his death bedde, and made Ijis faid 
 daughter his heyre ; who had by the faid 
 Eudo, a fonne named Conan furnamcd the 
 yonger , which v\2s the thud duke of that 
 name,and this man had one only daughter and 
 heyre named Lady Coilftancevx ho whas mar-* 
 fycd to -the thud fonne of king JHcrry the 
 
 fecond 
 
is A Conferme touching fuccef ton 
 fecond named Geffrey & elder brother to king 
 Ihon that after came to rayne & by this Lord 
 Geffrey f he had iflfue Arthur the fecond duke 
 of Britanie, whom king lohn his vncle put 
 fcackfrom thecrowneofIn(>land , and caufed 
 to be put to death, as after f halbe f hewed, and 
 he dyifig without iifue, his mother Conftancc 
 ducheife&heyreof Britanie, marryed agayne 
 with a prince of her ownc houfe, whom after 
 we f hall name in the profecution of this lyne^ 
 and by him fhe had ilfue that hath indured 
 vntilthis day, thelaftvvherof hitherto is the 
 rhtLJ lady Ifabella infanta of Spaine , & that other 
 tosoV Sauoy her fifter, whom by this meanes we Co 
 ^incarcto hauc difcended from king VViUiam the 
 Coqueror^by his eldeft daughter lady Coftanco 
 toyaiof as alfo by diuers other participations of the 
 iBglzni. blood royal of Ingland, as afterwards vvil ap- 
 pears 
 
 Thehou- Now then to comc to the (econd daughter 
 fc of of king William the Conqueror,or rather the 
 third (for that thefirftofal wasaNonnc as be- 
 fore hath byn noted) her name was Adela oc 
 Ahsas hath bin faide,and fhevvas marryed in 
 France to Stephen counte Palatin of Cham- 
 pagne Charters and Bloys, by whom fhe had a 
 fonnecalled alfo Stephen , who by his . grand 
 mother was carle alioof BollayneinPicardie, 
 andafcerthedeathof his vncle king Henry of 
 IngUnd,vvas by thcfauourofthe IngHfh no- 
 hihty,and efpecially by the hclpe of his ownc 
 ^ brother the Lord Henry of Bloys, that was 
 ^ Bifhop 
 
UtUm'r^ni. T4rt i. Cap. U- if 
 
 Bifhop of Winchefter and ioinily Abbot of 
 Glaftenbuiy,maclekinge of England , and this 
 both in vcfpcd that Mathilda daughter of king 
 Henry the firft was a woman , and her fonne why 
 Henry duke of Anjou, a very childe,& one de- vvasad? 
 gree farther of from the Conqueror and from mitted 
 kings Rufus then Stephen was, as alfo for that ^^^^ 
 this king Henry the firft (as hath bin fignified 
 befor«jvvas iudged by many to hane entred 
 wrongfully vnto the crowne, and therby to 
 haue made both himfelfc and his pofterity in- 
 capable of fucceflionby the violence which 
 hevfedagainft bothhis elder brother Robarr, 
 and his nephew duke William , that was 
 (bnne and heyre to Robert who by nature apd 
 law were bothe of them held for foueraintes 
 to Iohn,by thofc thatfauored them and their 
 pretentions. 
 
 But yet howfoeuer this were ^we fee that the 
 dukcof Dritany , that liued at that day, fhould ^ll^^f^ 
 euidently haue fucceded before Stephen , for 
 that hewasdifccnded ofthe elder daughter, of 
 the Conqueror, and Stephen of the yonger, 
 though Stephen by the cornmodity he had of 
 the necrnes of his portc and haucn of Bullaync 
 vntoIngland,asihc French ftories dofaye (fot 
 Calys was of no importance at that tymejand 
 by the frendf hip and familiarity he had gotten 
 in Ingland during the raigne of his two vncles 
 king Rufus and king Henry ,and efpecially by 
 the heip of his brother the Bi( hop and Abbot 
 as hath bin faid, hegaiiheftartofal the reft, 
 
 an4 
 
io A Confer end touching fucceftM 
 and the ftacesof Ingland admitted him. 
 The iflUe This man ahhoughhc had two fonnesns- 
 sfephcQ. niely Enftachiusdute of Normandy, and Wil- 
 liam earle of Norfolk ^ yet left they no iflue: 
 And his daughter Marie was maricd toma- 
 ihewof Fladers of whom ifariy ifFueremaines, 
 it fell afterward vppon thehoufe of Auftria^ 
 that fiKceded in thofe ftares. 
 K Hen To kmg Stephen who left no ifTaefucceded 
 thci. t>y compofitio after muchwarre Hcniyduke 
 of Anion, fonne and heyrc to Mathilda before 
 named, daughter of Henry the fiift, W'hich 
 Henry named afterward the fecond,tooke to 
 Bclfbr.I a wife Elenordaoghrer and heyre of VVilliam 
 cap. 50. dukeof Aqiiitaine , & earle of Poytiers^ which 
 GcraVd.V. Elenor had bm marryed before to the king of 
 « pj>g-549 France Lewis the 7. and bare him two daugh- 
 ters, but vppon didike conceaued By the one 
 agamft the other, they were deuorced, vnder 
 preiece of being within the fowerth degree of 
 conlanguiniryc , and fo by fecond marriage 
 Elenor was wife to this faid Henry who after- 
 Ward was king of Ingland by r>ame of K.Henry 
 the fec6d,that procured tbe deathe of Thomas 
 Becker nrchebifhope of Canterbury, and was 
 both before and after the greateft enimye , that 
 ciier Lewis the king of France had in the 
 world, and much the greater for his marriage, 
 by which Henry was made far ftroneer, for by 
 this woman he cartie to be dukeof al Aqui- 
 taine,th?ir isof Gafcony and Guyene, and cailc 
 ofalchc coutrcybf Poy tiers, wheras bcforealfo 
 
nthuroT^nt. Van t. Cap. 1 1- it 
 fcy his fathers inhciirancc, he vvasdukehoih 
 of Anjou,Touraync,and N/laync,& by his mo- 
 ther Mathilda king Henries daughter of In- 
 gland hy came to be king oflngland, & dukc 
 ofNormandie^ and by his owne induftry , he 
 gat alio to be lord of Ireland , as alfo to bring 
 Scotland vnder his homage, fo as he enlarged 
 thekingdome of Ingland moft of any other 
 king^before or after him. 
 
 This king Henry the fecondas Stowrecon. f^e^^^ 
 terh,had by Lady Elenor fyue fonnes and three iflbc^ 
 daughters. His eldeft fon ne was named V Vil- 1^^^^ 
 liam that dyed yonge , his feconde was Henry ci. 
 whom hccauted robe crowned in his ownc 
 life cyme, vvherby he receaued much trouble, 
 but in the end this fonne died before his father 
 Tvithout jfiTue. His thiid fonne was Richard 
 futnamed forhis valour Cor who reigned King ^ 
 after his father, by the name of Richard thcc^"^ 
 firft, and died without iffue in the yeare of 
 Chtift I J 99. 
 
 Hys fov verth fonne named Geffrey, maricd 
 lady Conftance daughter and hey re of Britanic^ 
 as before hath bin faid , and dying left a fonne 
 by her named Arthur , which was dukc ot 
 Britanie after him , and pretended alfo to be 
 king of Inglandjbut was put by it by his vnclc 
 lohn, that tooke him alfoprifoncr, and kept 
 him fo in the cartel firft offallaife in Norman- 
 die, and then in Roan,vntilhe caufed him to 
 be put to death, or fiewhim with his owne 
 hands as Freeh ftories write-in the yearc 1 204. 
 
 This 
 
Belfor.1.4 
 
 IX A Confetence touching fuccefm 
 
 !*uc?Bcl. ^^^^ ^"^^ Arthur left behind him twofi* 
 foicft, fters as Scow writeth in his chronicles, but 
 others write ihat it was but one, and at lead 
 Wife,l fynde but one named by the French fto- 
 riesjwhich vvasElenor, whom they (aye king 
 Bdfot.l.j lohn alio caufed to be muthcred in Ingland a 
 «p.7»' a litle before her brother the duke was put to 
 ' death in Normandie* andthiswas the end of 
 the illuc of Geffrey ,whofc wife Conftance du-^ 
 chelTe cf Britanie marryed againe after this 
 muriherofher children, vnto one Guy Vicond 
 Jap™ of Touars, and had by him two daughters, 
 wherof the eldcft named Ahs was duchelfe of 
 Britanie, by vvhotiiethe race hath bin contr 
 nucd vnto ourtyme. 
 K.iokn The fife fonne of king Henry the fecond 
 anidhif was named lohn , who after the death of his 
 * brother Richard by help of his mother Elenor, 
 
 and of Hubert Archbifhop of Canterbury, 
 drawen therunio by his (aid mother,gat to be 
 king^and put back his nephew Arthur,vvhom 
 king Richard before his departure to the war 
 of the holy land had caufed to be declared hey rc 
 apparent, but lohn prcuaykd and made away 
 both nephew andNeece, as before hath bin 
 faide, for which fail he wasdetcfted of many 
 in the world nbroadc, and in France by a6le of 
 parlamentdepriuedof al the Hates he had in 
 thofe partes. Soone after alfo the pope gaue 
 WifcYic* fentencc of dcpriuation againfthim, and his 
 ^pdkllg ^^"^ barons tookc armes to execute the fen- 
 tota. tcnce, and finally they dcpofed both him and 
 
 his yong 
 
tdrhecro^ne. Part i. Cap. 11. i$ 
 
 hisyongfonne Henry being then but a child 
 of S.yeares old, and this in the i S. yeaie of his 
 reigne^and in the yeareof Chrift 1 21 j.and Le- 
 wis tiie 8. of that name prince at that ryme but PoIidH©! 
 afterward knig of France, waschoftn king of stovv^i 
 Ingland, &: Iworne in Londo and placed in the viti lo- 
 Tower, though foone after by the fuddaine 
 death of king lohn that courie was altered 
 agayn^^Sc Henry his fonne admitted forking. 
 
 And thus much of the fonnes of king Hery jf^^ 
 thefecond, but of his daughters by the (simeofkmg 
 lady Elenor heyrecfGafconyj Beiforeft in his JhczJiys 
 ftory of France hath thefe wordes following, daugh- 
 King Henry had foure daughters by Elcnor of ^^j^^r i ^ 
 Aquirame, iheeldeft vvherof was marrycd tocap.49. 
 Alonfo the 9. of that name king of Caftile , of 
 which mariyage iffned Queenc Blanch mo- 
 ther to S.Lewis king of France. The fecond of 
 thefe two daughter:^- was efponfed to Alexis 
 Emperor of Conllantinople. The third was 
 mariiedto the duke of Saxony, and the fourth 
 was giuen to the enrle of Tholofa, thus being 
 the hench ftories of thefe daughters. 
 
 Of the marriage of the eldeft daughter of 
 thefe foure (whole name was Elenoralioas her ^-i^^ j^p^^ 
 mothers was) wirh king Alonfo the 9.ofCa- of Lady 
 ftilether proceeded many children, but only ^^^^^^ 
 one fonne that lined, whofe name was Henry, ot rpain«, 
 who was king of Caftile after his father, by 
 the name ofHenry the firft, and dyed quickly 
 vvuhour ilFue, and befidcs this Henty, two 
 daughters alio were borne of the fame ma^ 
 
14 A Cmfermce touching fuccefion 
 riage, of which the eldcfl: and heyre named 
 Blanch , was married by intercclljon of her 
 vncle king lohn of Ingland, with the forelaii 
 Pnnce Lewis of France, with ihi^ exprelicco- 
 ?oUdor.Ldinon, as bothPohdorin his Inghrh ftoiy & 
 joiian!^^ Ganbay the chronicler of Spay nc do affirme, 
 Stephen that fhc f hould haue for her dowry al the fta- 
 ^ilt^^i^^^^'^'^^ king lohn had loft in France, which 
 weiealmoftalihat hchadthcrc,and rhis to the 
 endjhe might not feeme to haue loft them by 
 fcrce, but ro haue ginen them with ihcma- 
 riageofhis Nctce, and fo this mariagc was 
 jn^de, and her hu( band Lewis was afr^rward 
 chofen alfo king of Ingland by the B:\ions,and 
 fvvorne in London, as before hach bm faide, 6c 
 hereby alfo the Infanta of SpaintUforc men- 
 cioii^d, that is difcendcd Hneally from both 
 thefe princes, 1 meane as wel from Qucenc 
 Blanch as frcniLewys, isproued to haue her 
 pretence fortified to the int( reft of Ingland, as 
 afterward fhalbe declared more at large ia 
 dew place. 
 
 Qnccnc Thefeconddaughtcrof king Alonfb the 9, 
 gucia Queen Elcnor,vvas named Berengucla, ;?.n J 
 was mirned to the prince of Leon in Spnync, 
 and had by him afonne nam.ed Fernando,vvha 
 afterward when king Henry her brother was 
 dead,vvas admitted by the Caftilians for their 
 king,by the name of Fernando thefourth, as 
 before the Ciuilian hath noted, and Blanch 
 with her fonne S.Lewis though 1 he were the 
 elder, was put by the crovvnc againft al right 
 
 offuc* 
 
tt)thecro>ne. Part i. Cap. 11. 
 Dtfacceffion, as Garibaythe Spaniard Chro-i^'/J^^.'^j 
 nicler noreth and confeflcth. 
 
 Heerby then fomc do gather, that as the fiift Pmenccs 
 intereft which the crowne of Ingland had lo?^.^^^-. 
 
 - _ ^ _ r ^ 11? Infanta of 
 
 the ftatesorGalcony Guyneand l^oyterSjCame fpayne to 
 by a woman: foalfodid ircome to France ^yp"||j[|j^ 
 the right of this forelaid Blanch, wh^rof theftatcs. 
 fauourers of che Infantaof Spaine do faye, that 
 fhe being now firft and next in biood of 
 that houl nought to inhcrite al rhefe and fuch 
 Iikeftates, as are inheritable by women ^ or 
 came by wome^asthe former dates of Gafcony 
 andGuvnedidto king Henry the fecond , by 
 Queen Elenor his wife, and Normandie by 
 Mathilda his mother , and both of them to 
 France by this former intereft: of Blanch , and 
 more they faye, that his lady Blanch mother to^ 
 King S.Lewis, vvhofehcyre at thisdaye the 
 infantaof fpayne is, fhould by right haue in- 
 herited the kingdome of Ingland alfo, after 
 the murther of Duke Arthur and his fiftec 
 Elenor/or that fhe was the next of ky nne vnto 
 them, at that tyme,vvhich could be capable to 
 fuccede rhcm,fov that king lohn him(elfe was 
 vncapahle of their fucceliion whom he had 
 murthered,and hisfonne Henry was not then 
 borne,nor in diuers yeares after, and if he had 
 bin, yet could he receaueno intereft rherunto 
 by his father, who had none himfclfe: of al 
 which points ihervvilbe more particul.er oc- 
 casion to fpeak hereafter. 
 
 Now then I come to fpeak of king Henry 
 
 S 2 the 
 
i6 A Conference touching fuccefwn 
 
 Sc^Tnd ^^^^^ vvho wa3 lonne to ihiskinglohn^and 
 hisilTuc. from whom al the three houfcs before mentio- 
 ned of Bi itanie Lancafter and Yorke, do feeme 
 to illue^as a triple branch out of one tree,albcit 
 the royal lineof Britanie is more ancient, and 
 vvasdeuided before euen from Wilham Con- 
 querors tyrae,as hath bm fhcwed , yet do ihey 
 Thcro€c-^"y^^ agame in this king Henry, for that of 
 ting of king Henry the thiid his eldclHonnc, named 
 J-^"^^^" prince Edward the firft, difcended Edward 
 the fccond^and of him Edward the third, from 
 Princes whom properly rifeth the houfc of Yorke. And 
 Dukc^Ed ^^his fecod fonne Edmond furnamed crooke- 
 mond. backscounty Palatine of Lancafter, iffued the 
 dukes of Lancafter vntil in the third diflcnr, 
 when the Lady Blanch hcyre of that houfc 
 matched with lohn of Gaunt , third fonne of 
 king Edward the rhird , from which mariage 
 role afterward the formal diuifion of ihefe two 
 hou(es of Lancafter and Yorke, & alfo two di- 
 ihiiQ: branches of Lancafter. 
 Lad.Bca^ Bffides thefe two fonnes , king Henry the 
 daughter ^^^hd had a daughter named ladyBeatrix,whom 
 o^l^'ng hemanvedto lohn the lecond of that name 
 Henry 3. j^^j.^ of Britanie , who after was llayne ac 
 Lions in France, by the fal of an old wall, in 
 thecoronarionofpcpe Clement the 5. of that 
 name, intheyeareof Chrift 1298. and for that 
 the frcdcs of the Infanta of Spay nc, do feeke to 
 ftrengihenher tule by thrs her difcent aKbof 
 the royal blood of Ingland , from Henry the 
 third as afterward f halbe declared^ I wil breifly 
 
td the croT^e. Tart i. C a p. 1 1. 17 
 
 in this place continew the pedegree of the 
 honfe of Britanie from that I left before, euen 
 to ourdayes, 
 
 I fhewed before in this chapter, that Gef-The^ped* 
 frey the third fonne to king Henry the f^co"d,^j^^^^y^^ 
 and duke of Britanieby his wife^being dead,& of Brita- 
 his tvYO^children Arthur and Elenor put to 
 death by their vncle king lohn in Ingland , as 
 before hath bin faid , it fel out that Conftance 
 ducheffc and heyre of Britanic marryed agayne 
 10 Guy vifcond of Touars, and had by him 
 two daughters, wherofthe eldcftnamed AVis 
 vvasducheireofBritanie,and marryed to Peter 
 BrienearleofDru{Ie,and by him had lohn the 
 fiiftof that name, duke of Briranie, which' 
 lohn (hefirfthadiffuc lohn the fecond , who 
 marryed lady Beatrix before metioned, daugh- 
 ter to king Henry theihird, and by her had the 
 fecond Arthur duke of Bncanieto vvhom fuc- 
 ceded hiseldeft (bnne by hisfiift wife , named 
 lohn the third, who dying without iflue , It ft 
 the very fame trouble and garboyle in Biitanie 
 about the fucceflion betwcene the two noble 
 houfes of Bloys and Monf )rd , the one mayn- 
 teyned Ky France, and the other by Ingland, asrhegreat 
 foone after vppon the very like occifion hap- 
 pe nedin Ingiand^betweene the houfes of Lan- [vveenc" 
 cifter & Ybrk as after fhalbc fhewed. And not ^^^^^l^^ 
 long after that againe the likefefflidlion alfoford and 
 cnfewed in France, (though not forfuccefljon ^^^y^\^ 
 but vppon other occafionsj betwene the great Barguniy 
 and royal houfes of Burgundy and Orleans^ f^^^^- 
 
 3 Whcrby 
 
28 A Conference touching fmefwn, 
 vvherby al three common wealthes (I raeanc 
 Ingland Bntanie and France) were like to haue 
 come rodiftruclion and vtcerdelolation. 
 The con- for that It may ferue much To our par- 
 
 troucr. pofe hereaftcr^to vndcrftand vvel this controu- 
 fvvecnc Bdtanic, I thinke it not amiffe in few 
 
 the houfc V vordes to declare the fame m this place , thus 
 ford and • then It happened. 
 
 »lpjs. The forefaid Arthur the fccod of that name, 
 duke ofBricanie, and fonne of Lady Beatrix 
 that was daughter (as hath bin faid) to king 
 Henry the third of Ingland , had two vviues, 
 the fiill named Beatrix as his mother was, and 
 by thishehadtwofonnes, lohn that fucceded 
 h\m in the ftate, by the name of duke lohn 
 the third, and Guye that <iying before his elder 
 brother left a daughter and heyrc^named loan, 
 and furnan:>ed the UmeSox that The haltcd,who 
 vvasmarryedco the carle of Bloys, that was 
 nephewtoPhilhpof Valois , king of France, 
 for I hat he was borne of bis fifter. 
 
 Bar befides thefe two chiidren,the faid du ke 
 Arihur hadby hisfecond wife, named loland 
 couniefle and hcyreof theearldome ofMon* 
 ford,an other fonne called lohn Breno, who ia 
 the right of his mother was earleof Monfordi» 
 And afterward -when duke lohn the third 
 came to die without i(Tue, thcqueftion was, 
 who f hould fgccede him in his dukedome^the 
 vncle cr the neece, that is to faye,his third bro- 
 ther lohn BiCiiO by half bloodeor els hisNcece 
 loan the lame^that was daughter and hey re to 
 
 \\\% 
 
thecrd^ne. Tart i. Cap. It. 19 
 liis fccond brother Guye of whole bloode, ^j?^'^^ 
 that is. by father and mother,which lady loanlucccffid 
 was marryed totheearleof Bloys as hath byn^^^^^^^^j^ 
 Taid. And fird rhis matter was bandied in the and rhc-^ 
 parlamentof P.iris,theking hi mfclfe fitting in**^**^^ 
 iudgment with al his peeres^ the 30* day of 
 Septcmb, M 4 1, and adiuged ittotheearle of 
 Bloys, tjorh for that his wife was hcyre to the 
 elder biorher,asalfo for that duke lohn by his 
 reft.imeiit and 'onfent of the ftates^hid appoin- 
 ted her to be his heyre, but yet king EdvVard 
 the ihifd and ftates of Ingland did ludge it 
 eiherwife, and preferred Tohn Monford , not 
 knowing that the very like^afc was to fal out 
 very foone after in Ingland, I meane, they iud- 
 ged the (late to lohn Brcno carle of monford 
 yonger brother to Guye, & they did aflift him, 
 and hisfonneafcerhim , with al their forces 
 for thegayning and holding ofthat ftare. 
 
 And albeit at the beginning, it Teemed that 
 matters went againft Monford. for that him- 
 felfe was taken prifoner in Nantes ^and carryed 
 capriueto Paris where he dyed in prifon, yer^j,^ 
 his forme lohn by the airjftance of the Inglifh houfc of 
 armies gat the dakedome afterward, and (kw'^ " 
 theearleof Blojs , and was peaceably duke of 
 Britanieby thenameoflohn the fourth , and 
 his pofterity hath indurcd vntil this day, as 
 briefly heere I wil declare; Thcfuc- 
 
 This duke lohn thefourth of the houfe of ccffion of 
 Monford had illiie lohn the fift , & he, Francis f^,^^" 
 the fiift, vvho dying without iflTue, left theBiitanic. 
 
 S 4 dukedomc 
 
 Blois ouet 
 
JO A Conference touching fuccepon, 
 dukcrdome lo Peter his brother , and Peter ha- 
 uing no children neither, he left it to his vncle 
 Arthur the third, brother to his father loha 
 the fifr , and this Arthur was earle of Rich- 
 mond in Ingland, as fome of his anceftors had 
 bin before him , by gyftes of the kings oF 
 Ingland. 
 
 faft^Dukc '^^^^ Arthur dying without iffuc left the 
 ofBri- ^dukdome vnto his nephew, to wit hi^ bro- 
 "i^y» thers fonne Francis the fccond , who was the 
 laft male child of that race, and was he that had 
 once determyned, to haue deliueied Ht*niy 
 carle of Richmond , vnto his enimye king 
 Edward the fourth, and after him to king Ri- 
 chard the 3. but that Henries goodfottunere- 
 fcruedhim to come to be king of Inglnnd. 
 HoYT the '^^^^^ duke Francis had a daughter and hcyre 
 dukdomc named Anna,marryed fiift to Charles the eight 
 nufvvaV kingof France , and after his death without 
 vnitcd iflue to his fuccciror Lewis the 11. by whome 
 lofiaflcc. fj^^j^^j a daughter named Claudia that was 
 hcyre to Britanie, though not to the ciowne of 
 France, by reafon of the law Salique, that hol- 
 dcih againll women in the kingdome cfFrace 
 but not in Biitanie, and to the end this duk- 
 dome f hould not be difvn ited agayne from the 
 faid crowne of France , this daughter Claudia 
 was marryed to Francis duke of Angoleme 
 hcyre apparent to the crowne of France, by 
 whom i he had iHue Henty^that was afterward 
 king of France, and was father to the laft kmg 
 ofrhac country^ andtoYiabcl mother of the 
 
 Infanta 
 
tdthecrc>l^ne. Tart i. Cap. II. 51 
 
 Infanta of Spaync^and of her fifter the duchcfle 5.' 
 of Saiioye that now is, by which alfo Ibme do 
 afBrme that chc (aid pfinceire or Infanta of 
 fpayne, albeit fhebe barred ftom the fucceffio 
 of France, by their pretended law Sahque ; yet 
 is her title maniftfttothc dukdorce of Brira- 
 rie^ that came by a woman as we haue f hewed, 
 and thus much of the houfe of Br^tanie and of 
 the princeHis of Spaine, how f he is of the blood 
 royal of Ingland, from ihe tyme of VV^Uliam 
 Conqueror himfclfe by his eldeft daughter, ap 
 alfo by other kings after him : and now wc 
 f hall returne to profecute the ilfue of thefetwo 
 fonnes of king Henry the third, to wit of 
 Edward and Edmond^which before we left. ^ 
 
 I fhewcd yon before how king Henry theyhe ifTut 
 third had two fonnes, Edward th^ prince, that y^^^^^ 
 was king after his father ^ by the name ofthc^i, 
 Edward ihefirft, andEdmond iurnamed crok- 
 back by fome writers , who vvhas the firft earle 
 and county Palatine of Lancafter,and begiimcc 
 of that houfe. 
 
 And albeit (bme writers of our tyme , hai>e j^j^ 
 affirmed or at lead wife much inclmed to fa- hop of 
 uour a certaync old leport^that Edmod fhould ^^^^^^ 
 be the eldei brother to Edward, and put back of the c^^ 
 only for his deformity of his body, (whcrof^^^^^"^* 
 Polidor doth fpeak in the beginmg of the George 
 reigne of king Henry the fourth, and as vvel^^^^/? 
 the Bifhopof Rode as alfo George Lylly do tomes' 
 leemeto bcleeueit^yet euident it feme th that ^^J^;^ 
 is Was but a fable, as before I haue noted and 
 
 S J now 
 
51 A Conference touching fuccefm 
 now againe I I hall briefly prouc ir by the(e rea- 
 fiSs following,for that it imporreih very muchc 
 fordecidingthecotrouerfie between the how* 
 fesof La!icafterandyorke. 
 That The firft reafon then is, for that al ancient 
 Edward hiftofiographerspf Ingland and among them 
 cider! ^ Matheus Weftmonafterienfis thit liaed at the 
 ^athcus fame tyme do aifirme the cotrary, and do make 
 Heia- Edward to be elder (hen Edmond by fix yeares 
 fcir ^ and two daycs,for that they appoince the birth. 
 ihxicvLf of Prince Edward to hzwc bin vppon the \ 
 r^s^H- daypf luneintheyeareofChtift i2?9, & the 
 24. of che reignc of his father king Hi*nry, and 
 the birth of Lord Edmond to hauc followed 
 vppon the 1 8. day of the fame moneth 6.ycarcs 
 afcer,towitintheyeareofoar lord 1145". and 
 thevdonamethegodfuhers and godmothers 
 of them both together , with the pecuUer fo^ 
 lemniiiesand fea^es, that were celebrated at 
 ther feueral nariuities, fo as it fcemcth ther caa 
 be no ertor in this matter. 
 !• The 2. reafon is, for that we read that this 
 Lord Edmond was a goodly wife and dilcreec 
 prince,notwithftanding that fome authors cal 
 himcrokback, and thai he was highly in the 
 fauour both of his father king Henry,^s alfo of 
 his brother king Edward, and employed by 
 them in many great warres , and other affivres 
 of (late, botb in France <Sc otherwhere, which 
 argucth that therwas no fuch great dtfc(^l la 
 him as fhould mouc his father and the realms 
 to depriue him of his rucceiHon. 
 
 Thiidly 
 
totheCYo^ne. Tart i. Cap. II. 
 
 Thirdly vve reade that king Henty procured 3» 
 by diuers waies and meanes the aduancemcnc 
 of thisL.Edmond,as giuing him the earldomes 
 of Lecefter & Darby befides that of Lancafter, Holling 
 asalfo procuring by.al meanes poflable & VN'ith|^^^^^^^^^ 
 cxccding great charges to haue him made kmg rid s.pag, 
 of Naples 6c Sicilieby pope Innoceniius which^^^'^ 
 hadbianopollicy to hauedone^ifhe had bia 
 pur back from his inheritance in Ingland^ for 
 that it had bin to haue armed him agaiolt his 
 brother the king. 
 
 Fourthly we lee that at the death of his fa- 4* 
 iher king Henry the third, this Lord Edmond 
 was principally left in charge with the realme, 
 his elder brother prince Edward being fcarfly 
 leturned fro the warrof Afia, at what tyme,ha 
 had good occafion to chaleg his owne nght to 
 the crowne,if he had had any ,feing he wanted 
 no power theruto, hauing three goodly fon nes 
 at thattymealiue, borne of his wife Queene 
 Blanch dowager of Nauarre , who had bin 
 marryed before to Henry king of Nauarre, and 
 contie of Champaine,ro whom f he had borne 
 only one daughter, that was marryed to Phil- 
 hp le bel kmg of France. 
 
 But vvefhalneuer reade thateither he, orEdmond^ 
 _ any of his children, made any fuch ^5^ynic,bur J,'^^^p"^^' 
 that they luied in very good agreemenr& high tended co 
 grace with king Edward the firft , as his chil-^|;^^^^^ 
 dien dyd alfo with king Edward the fccond, 
 vntil he began to be mis- led in gouermLnt^and 
 then ihe two fonnes of this Lord Edmond 
 
 flratane 
 
34 ^ Conference touching fuccefton 
 I meane both Thomas and Henry, that fucced 
 fiuely were earlesof Lancafterj made vvarr 
 Vppon the faid Edward thefecood , and were 
 the principil doers in his depolirion , & in 
 fetcing vp of his fonne Edward the third in his 
 place, at what tyme it is euidct that they might 
 haue put in alfo for themfelues,! f there title had 
 bin fuch as this report maketh it. 
 Kotcthis ^ reafonis, for that if this had bin fb, 
 confe- thatEdmondearle of Lancafter, had bin the 
 ^ocm, cider brother , then hid the controuerfie be- 
 • tweene the two houfes of York and Lancafter, 
 bin mofl cleare and without al doubt at al^ for 
 then had the houfe of Yorke hid no pretence 
 ofright in the worlde, and then were it eui- 
 dent, that the heyres general of Blanch du- 
 dhellc of Lancafter wife of lohn of Gaunt, to 
 Wit.thedifcendenres of lady Phillip her daugh- 
 ter,thar was marryed into Portugal,thefe I fay, 
 and none other, were appai^nt and true heyres 
 tothf crowne of Ingland at this day , and al 
 the other of rhe houfeof Yorke vfurperSjasv^'el 
 king Henry the 7. as al his pofterity S< oflpring, 
 for that none of them hiue dcfcended of the 
 faid Blanch as is manifeft. 
 (1, And therforc laftiv the matter ftandeth (na 
 The cldcf doubt) as Polidor holderh in the later ende of 
 Edmoni the life of king Henry the third, where hauin^; 
 afiftion. rnetioned thefc two fonnes Edward Edmod, 
 he addeth thcfe wordes. Ther u^amcd not certayne 
 lia/vi*t«" ^y^^ ^f^^^ ^^^^ ajfmned this Edmovd to 
 
 Hem. J. b^thc elder fonns (to king Henrj the third, and te 
 
tothecrdfi^ne. Tart i. Cap. II. 3/ 
 
 hauebtndeprmdofhis mbentancey for that he T^as 
 deformed tn body, but thefe timiges n^ere fcyma to the 
 end tbdt ki^g Hemy the fourth that cam by his m^^ 
 thers fide of this Eamond, might feeme to huue come to 
 the kingdome by right , Ti^heras m deed he gut u by 
 force. 
 
 Thus faith PoHdor in this place , but aftcr- 
 vvard in thebegining of the hfeof thefaid K. 
 Henry ihe 4. he faycih, that fome would hauc 
 had king Henry to haue pretended this title 
 among other rtafons, but that the more part 
 accompting it but a mcare fable, it was 
 omitted • 
 
 Now then it being cleerc that of ihefe 
 two fonnes of king Henry the third, prince 
 Edward was the elder and lawful heyre^it re- 
 mayneih only that we fct downe, their feue- 
 ral difcents vnto the tynics of king Edward 
 the third, and his children, in whofe dayesthc 
 difleniion & controuerfie betwecne ihcfe royal 
 houfes of Yorkc and Lancafter^began to break 
 fourth. 
 
 And fortheilliie of Edward that was ting^jj^ IIP^,^ 
 after his father, by the nameof king Edward of king 
 the firft, it is euident that albeit by two fe-^^T^ 
 ueral wrues he had a dofen children y male 
 and femal, yet only his fourth fonne by his 
 firftvvife called alfo Edward (who Was king 
 after him by the name of king Edward the 
 fecond)lefci(rue that remayned.which Edward 
 the fecond being afterward for his euel go- 
 uerraentdepoicd, left iflue Edw^ard the thud, 
 
 who 
 
A Confemce touching fuccefton 
 vvho vvas made king by eledion of the people 
 in his place, and afcer a long and profperous 
 reigne^ left diucu fonnes^ vvhcrof afcer we 
 fhalfpcak, and among them his third fonn^ 
 named lohn of Gaunt , married lady Blanch 
 daughter and heyre of the houfe oflancafter^ 
 ftnd of the fornamed Lord Edmond Crouch- 
 back, by which Blanchjohn of Gant became 
 dukeoflancafter; fo as the lines of thcfe two 
 brethcren Edward and Edmond did meereand 
 ioyne againe m the fourth difcent, as now 
 f hall appeare by declaration of the ilFue of the 
 forefhid L. Edmond. 
 The ifluc Edmond then the fecond fonneof K.Henrjr 
 of Ed- the third, being made county palatine of Lan- 
 crock. caftcT.asaHoearleofLocdtcr and of Darby,by 
 back^ his fuber king Henry , as hath bin faid: had 
 iilue three fonnes, to vvir,Thom2S Henry and 
 John, among whom he deuided his three lla- 
 ttSy making Thomas his eldcft fonne , county 
 patacine of Lancafter,Henry earleofLecefter,&: 
 lohnearleof Darby. BiirThoma<itheeldeft & 
 lohn the yongelt dying vvichoutiflue, al three 
 ftarcs fc l againe vpponHenry the fecond fotme, 
 V^'hich Henry hadillue one fonne and three 
 daughters , his Ibnnc was named Henry the 
 fecond of that name, earle of Lancaller , and 
 iTij^dedukeof Lancafter, by king Edwird the 
 thud, and he had one only daughter & heyic 
 jKiiTied Blanch, vvho was marryed vnro lohn 
 of Gant as before haih bm faid. But Duke 
 Heniics thice lifters named loan Mary and 
 
 Eknor, 
 
Uthtcro^nt. Vdrt 2. Cap. II. 37 
 £lenor, were al martyed to diueis principal 
 men ofthe realmc,for that loan was marryed 
 tolohn L. Maubery of whom aie defccnded CoIIatcMi 
 the Howards of^he houfe of Norfolk at this^^?!^^^ 
 day, and Mary was marryed to Henry lord 
 Peaicy, from whom comcth the houfe of the 
 Earics of Northumbtiland , and Elenor was 
 marricd.to Richard carle of Arundel, whence 
 jsilTucdalfo by his mothers fide the Eaile of 
 Arundclthar now is, fo as of this ancient lyne 
 of Lincalier ther vvanr not noble houfes with 
 in ihe realme at this day , illued thence before 
 the cotrouerfie fell out betwecne yoike & this 
 family^otwhichconirouerfiehovv ic rofcard 
 how it was continued, 1 fhall now begyn to 
 make mon patticuler declaration, faking my 
 begu>ir g from the childicn of king EdWard 
 thethiid, who vveicthecaufeis of this fatal 
 dillcntion. 
 
 OE THE SVCCESSIOM 
 
 OF INGLISH KINGES FROM 
 
 KING EDVARD THB THIRD VNTO O 7 R 
 
 dajes.l^itb the panicuieY caufes ofdiffcntion^be^ 
 ff^tene the famdtes of jorkl andhancor- 
 jlcr more largly declared. 
 
 Cap. III. 
 
 KIng Edward the third furnamcd by theFyaeronU 
 Englifh the vi<aorions, though he hadg^^yij^* 
 nriny children, wherof fome dyed without}, 
 iffue, which appertaine not to vs to treat of, 
 
 yec had 
 
3$ A Conference touching fuccefion 
 
 yet had he Hue Tonnes, ihat leftilTuebehlncle 
 ihem,co wit Edward the eldeft that was prince 
 of Walts furnamed the black Prince : Leonel 
 duke of Clarence which was the 2. fonne, 
 lohnofGancfo calledfor thathe was borne ia 
 that cicye,that was the third (onne, and by his 
 vCife was duke of Lancafter, and fourthly 
 Edmond furnamedofLanglcy, for that he was 
 alfo borne ther, andwasdukeofYorke, Sclaft 
 of al Thomas the lift (bnne furnamed of 
 Woodftocke^forthe farae reafon of his birth, 
 and vvasdukeofGlocefter. 
 
 Althefcfiuediikes, being great princes ani 
 (bnnesofoneking, left ilfue behinde them as 
 fhalbe declared , and for that the difcendents 
 of the tbi rd and fourth of thefe fonnes, to wit, 
 cfthe dukes of Lancafter and Yorke, camt 
 , \ aFserward to ftriue who had beft title to reignc^/ 
 thcrofitcame, that the controueiiie had his 
 name ofthefetwo famjles,vvhich for more di- 
 ftmd:i5 {ake,& the better :o be knownc^tookc 
 The icdd vppon them for their cniignes a fofe ^f two 
 thc^*^ djffctent colures, to wit , the white rofe , and 
 white. theredd,asal the world knoweth,wherof the 
 white ferued for Yorke,and the redd for Lan- 
 cafter. 
 
 ^c^bilck Tobegynthcnto fhew theiffneof al thefe 
 funcc. fiue princcSjit is to be noted, that the two elder 
 of them, to wit, prince Edward^ and his fccorTcl 
 brother Leonel Duke of Clarence, dyed both 
 of them before king Edward their father, and 
 left each of ihera an hcyrc, fur that Prince 
 
 Edward 
 
to the crot^ne. Tart i. Cat. It. 35 
 
 Edward left a fonnc named Richard, who fuc- 
 ccdcd in the crowne immcdiatly after hisgrad-* 
 father, by the name of king Richaid the fecod, 
 but afterward for his euel goucrment was de- 
 pofed, and dyed m pri(bn without idUe y and 
 lb was ended inhim thcfucccffion of the fiift 
 fbnnc of king Edward. 
 
 The (fcond fonncLconel, dying alfo before ^hc imit 
 his father, left behind him one only daughter of icond 
 and hcyre, named Phillip, who was rnarryed [^n/^'^ 
 to one Edmond morcimer Eailc of march, and 
 he had hj her a fonne and hey re named Roger 
 xnortimer, which Roger hadifluetwo fbnnes 
 named Edmond and Roger, which dyed both 
 Without children ^ and one daughter named 
 Ann mortimcr, which was marryed vnto Ri- 
 chard Plantaginec eaile of Cambrigc , fccond 
 fbnne vnto Edmond Langly duke of vorkc^ 
 which duke Edmond was fourth fonne , as 
 hath bin faid, vnto king Edward the third, and The iflUt 
 for that this Richard Plancaginet mairyed the ^ond the 
 faid Anne as hath bin faide, hereby it came to 4 fonne. 
 pade^that the houfe of Yorkc ioy ned two titles 
 in onc»to wit,that of Leoncl duke of Clarence^ 
 which was the iecod fonne of K.Edward the 
 third^& that of Edmond langly duke of yorkc 
 which was the fourth fonne: and albeit this 
 Richard Plantaginec himfelfe neuercame to be 
 duke of Yorke, for that he was put to death 
 vvhileshiselderbrothei lyued, byking Henry 
 the fiftfar a confpiracy difcoucred in South 
 hampton againft the iaid king , when he was 
 
 T goij"^S 
 
. 40 A Cmfmncetouchingfuccefton, 
 
 goingouer into fiance with his army: yrt ht 
 leftalonnc behind him named alfo Rithaid^ 
 who afterward came to be duke of Ycike, by 
 thedeaih ofhisvncle, which vncle was flainc 
 iboneafter in the battel of Egecouti in France: 
 &this Richard began fitit of ai to profccuic 
 openly his quarrel ioi the title of the crowne, 
 againltthehouleof Lancafter,as a litle after- 
 ward more in particuler f halbe declared,as alfb 
 f halbe f hewed how ihat this i. Richard duke 
 of Yorke being flaine alfo in the fame quarrel^ 
 left afonne named Edward, earle cf march, 
 who after much ttooble gat to be king, by the 
 name of king Edward the 4. bv the opprefljon 
 and putting downe of king Henry the 6. of 
 lhehou(eofLancafter, and wasthefirft ki g 
 ofthe houfeof Yorke, vvhofe genealogic we 
 f bal lay downe more largly afterwards in 
 place connenient. 
 
 And nowe it followeth in order that we 
 fhould ipeakoflohnof Gaut the third lonne, 
 but for that his difcent is great , I 1 hal fiiit 
 Ihewihedifccnt of the fifth and laftfonne of 
 The iffiic '^^^S Edward who vvasThcmas of Woodftrcfc 
 otTho. duke of Glocefter and earle of Buckingham, 
 *^*loniic ^^^^^^^5 P"^ to death afterward or rather mur- 
 tberrd wrongfully , by order of his nephew 
 king Richard the fecord , and he kfr only one 
 daughter ^nd heyre named Anna who was 
 inarryed to theL.StafFoid vvhofe familie after^ 
 ward in regard of this marriage came to be du- 
 kes cfBucKingha^Sc were put dowue by king 
 
 Richard 
 
to the cro^ne. Part i. Cap. 11. 41 
 
 Richard the thud , and king Henry the cighr, 
 albeit ?ome of the blood and name do remay ne 
 yet ftil in Ingland . 
 
 And thus hauing brought to an end the iffue 
 cfthtee Tonnes of Ring Edward, to wit of the 
 firft(ccond^cfift,& touched alfb, (bmewhac 
 of the fpiirth,ther refteth to profecute more 
 fuily theiirues& difcetsofihe third & fourth 
 fonnes, to wit of lohnof Gaunr duke of Laca- 
 fter , and of Edmond Langly duke of Yorke, 
 which are the headcs of thefe two noble fami- 
 lieSjwhich thing I fhal do in this place with al 
 breuitv andperfoecaity poflible, bcgining firft 
 With the houfeof Lancafier. 
 
 lohn ofGauntthiidfonnc ofkifig Edward The JfRia 
 being duke of Lancafter by his wife, as hathf(fnn^* 
 bin faid, had three wiues in al , and by eu^^ry of 
 oneofthcmhad ifTue, though the bifhop of^^*^^*^ 
 Rofleinhis great Latin arbor of the genealo- 
 gies of the kings of Ingland^printed in Parris ia 
 ih^ yearc ij8o. affigncth but one wife only 
 to this lohn of Gaont,and conlequently that at 
 his childcn were borne of her, which is a great 
 and manifeft error and cauferh great confufioit 
 in al the reft which in his booke of theQucene 
 of Scots title he buyldeth hereon, for thatic 
 being euident , that only the firft wife was 
 daughter and h^yreof the hou(eof Lancafter, 
 and lohn ofGantduke therofby her, it follo- 
 Weth chat the children only that were borne of 
 her, can pretend properly rothe inheritance of 
 lhathoule, and not others borne of lohn of 
 
 T I Cant 
 
' 4^ A Conference mchingfuccef ton. 
 
 Gaunt by other wiues as al the world wil 
 confefle. 
 
 Firft rhen fasi hauc faidj this lohn of Gaunt 
 The iffke marryed Blanch daughter and heyre of Henry 
 iLnchf duke ofLancafter, and had by her one fonne 
 only and twodaught-^rs. The fonne was caU 
 led Henry carle full of Darby > and after made 
 duke of Here ford by king Richard che fccond, 
 and after that came to be duke alfo of Lanca- 
 fterby the death of his father, andlaftely was 
 made king by the depofition of his cofengcr- 
 maine the faid king Richard, and reigned i j. 
 yearesby the name of king Henry the fourth^ 
 and was the firft king of the hou fe of Lacafter, 
 of the right of whole title examination fhalbc 
 made afcetwards. 
 lr.?hiilip The firft of the two daughters which lohn 
 inanycd ofGaunt had bv Blanch, was named Phillip, 
 tugal and wno was manyed to lohn the nrft of that 
 hex iffu«- name king of Portugal, by whom fhehadilPuc 
 Edward king of Poitugal,and he Alfonfus the 
 fift, & hclohn the fccond^c fo one after ano* 
 ther eucn vnto our dayes. 
 M^th**' '^^^ fccond daughter of lohn of Gaunt by 
 iccond lady Blanch was named Elizabeth, who was 
 jUugh- inairycd to lohn Holland duke of Excefter, Sc 
 fhe hadilTueby him, an other lohn , duke of 
 Exrefter,ard he had ilTiie Henry duke of Excc- 
 fier,rhai dyed without ilFue male, Uauing only 
 one daughter named Anne, who was mar- 
 rycd to Sir Thomas Neuill knight , and 
 
 by him 
 
totheetd^rte. Tart u Cap. II. 45 
 by him had ilfiie RafFe Neiiill third carle of 
 Weftmerland, whofe lineal hcyie is at this day 
 Lord Charles Neuill carle oft Wcftmerland, 
 ihar liuerh banif hed in Flanders. 
 
 And this is althe iirue that lohn of Gaunt The ifTat 
 had by lady Blanch his firft wife, fauing only 
 that i had forgotten to profccute the ifliie 
 of Henry his firft fonne, furnamed of Bolen- 
 brok, that was afterward called king Hen- 
 ry the fourth which king had 4. Tonnes and 
 two daughters , his daughters were Blanch 
 and Phillip, the firft marryed to William duke 
 of Biuana, and the fecond toErick king of 
 Denmarke^and both of them dyed withouc 
 children. 
 
 The four fonncs were firft Henry thtt 
 rcygned after him by the name of Henry 
 the fifr,and the fecond was Thomas duke of 
 Clarence, the third was John duke of Bed- 
 ford, and the fourth vvas Humfrey duke of 
 Gloccfter,al which threedukesdyed without 
 iflTucorvvere flaincin vvarres of the realme, 
 fb as only king Henry the fift their elder bro- 
 ther had ifluc one (bnne named Henry al{b> 
 that vvas king, and reigned 40. yearesbythc 
 namcof Henry the fixt who had iftue prince 
 Edward & both of them (I meane both father 
 & fonnejwere murthcrcd by order or permiflio 
 of Edward duke of Yorke , who afterward 
 tooke thecrowncvpponhim, by the name of 
 lung Edward the foarth,as before hath bin faid 
 
 T } foas 
 
fo as in this king Henry the 6. and his fonne 
 piince Edward, ended all the blood royal male 
 ofthehoufeof Lancafter, bv Blanch the firft 
 Wifeofloho of Gaunt, and the inheritance of 
 ihe faidlady Blanch returned by right of fuc- 
 ceffion as the fauorers of the howfcof Por^ 
 tugalaffirme though others deny ir, vnto the 
 hey res of lady Phillip her eldefl: danghcer^mar^ 
 ryedanto Portugal^vvhofe nephew named Al- 
 fonfus the fift kingeof Portugal liuedat that 
 day when kmg Henry the 6. and his hey re were 
 made away, and this much of lohn of Gaunts 
 firft marriage. 
 Thcifluc Butafcerthedeathofthe L. B!an,ch Tohnof 
 of lohn Gaunt marryed the Lady Conftance, daughter 
 tyhis"' and heyreofPeter the firft furnamcdthe cruel 
 a.vyifc king of Caftih, who being driuea out of his 
 kingdome by Henry his baftard brother , afli- 
 ftedtheruntoby the french, he fleddio Bur- 
 dcaux with his wife &: two daughters, where 
 he founde prince Edward eldeftfonncto king 
 Edward the third, by whom he was reftored, 
 and for pledge of his fidelity and performance 
 of other conditions that the faid king Peter 
 had promifed to the Prince, he left his two 
 daughters withe hym, which daughters being 
 The 'con- fcnt afterwards into InglaJ, the eldeft of them, 
 r^^^p^^g named Conftance, was marryed to lohn of 
 betvvrcc- Gaunt, and by her title he named himfelfc for 
 ?ctcr"thc ^iuersyeares afterward , king of Caftilc, and 
 cruel aad went to g^iiync the fame byarmes, when Peter 
 «ard bio^ hc£ f^the/ was flayne by his forcfaid baftard 
 thcr. * ^ ' brother 
 
brother, bat yet fome yeares after that againe, 
 their wis an agremcnt midc betweene the 
 faid lohn of Gaunt, and lohn the firftofthat 
 name, kingufCaftile, fonne and hcyre of the 
 forcfaid Henry the baftard, with condition, 
 that Catherine the only daughter of lohn of 
 Gaunt by lady Coftance, fhould marry with ^^^-^^^^ 
 Henry the third prince of Caftile , fonne, andi.isc.ifc 
 hcyre of the faid king lohn , and nephew to 
 the baftard H nry the i. and by this mcanes 
 was ended thai* conrroufie betweene Ingland 
 and Caftile, and the fiid L. Catherine had ilVac 
 by king Henry, lohn the 2. kingof Caftile, 8c 
 he Ifabell that marryed with Fcrdinando 
 theCatholique kingof Aragon, and ioyned 
 by that marriage buthchofe kingdomes toge«» 
 ther , and by him f he had a daughter named 
 loan, that marryed Phillip duke of Auftria and 
 Burgundy , and by him had Charles the fifth 
 that was Emperor, and father to kingPhilli{> 
 that now reigneth in Spaine,vvho (as we fee)is 
 defceded two waies from lohn of Gaunt duke 
 of Lincarter,to wit by twodaughtets begotten 
 oftwowiues, Blanch and Conftance, nethec 
 had lohn cfGaunt any more chddre by Con- 
 ftance but only this daughter Catherine , of 
 whom wehauefpoken , vvherfore now we 
 fhalfpeake of his third wife that was Lady . 
 Catherine Swinford. Cathcrin 
 This lady Catherin as InghTh hiftorifs ^^^^oiirn^s^ 
 rote, was borne in Hcnilt in Flanders, &c was hcadm^ 
 daughter to a knight of that country called "^^^^J^ 
 T 4 SirPaynepag^^f! 
 
4(5 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 Sir Payne deRuec, and fbe was brought vp 
 in her youth in the duke of Lancaftcrs houfe, 
 andattended vpponhis firftwife lady Blanch^ 
 and being fayre of perfonage, grew in luch fa-^ 
 uourvvirh theduke, as inthe tymcofhir fe-^ 
 cond wife Conftance , he kept this Catherin 
 for hisconcubin , and begat vppon her fower 
 children^to wit, three, fonnes and a daughter, 
 which daughter (^vvhofe name vvaslanejwas 
 inarrycd to Raph earle of Wcftmerland cal- 
 led commonly m thofc dayes Da)^ Raby » of 
 whom defended theEarles of VVeftmerhnd 
 that inl'ued. His three fonnes were lohn, Tho- 
 mas, and Henry, and lohn was fir{l earle and 
 then duke ofSommerfct^ Thomas was firft 
 marques Dorfet , and then duke of Exceftcr^^ 
 Henry was Bifhop of V Vinchefter and after 
 Cardinal. 
 
 And after lohn of Gaunt had begotten al 
 thes 4. children vppon Catherin, he marryed 
 her to a knight in Ingland named Swinford, 
 which knight lyued not m any yeares after, 
 lohn of Gaunt comming home to Ingland, 
 from Aquitainc, wherhe had bin for diuers 
 yearcs.ahd feing this old concubine of his 
 Catherine, to be now a widow, and himfclfc 
 alfo without a wife(for that the lady Coftance 
 was dead alitle before) for the louethat he 
 bore to the children which he had begotten 
 ofhcrhedctermyned to marry her, andther- 
 by the rather to legitimate her childrc, though 
 bimfcifc were old now and al his kyndred 
 
tothe^crd^^ne. Titrt i. Cap. IL 47 
 f ttcrly againft the marriage , and fo not ful 
 two ycarts before his death, to wit, in the ycare 
 cfChrift M96. he married her, and the ncxcThcduk« 
 yeare after in a parlament begun at W^^^i^-caftcrs"b« 
 fter, the 11. of lanuary anno Domini i^c^j.^zid% 
 he cauCed al his (aid iifue 10 be lcg«i'^«^<l^*i^Jt^ 
 which he had begotten vppon this lady Svvin- HoUingfc 
 ford bcfort f he was hi5 wife. j^.^^ 
 
 But now to go foreward to dedare the ifliiCpag.iofW 
 ofihes three lonnes of lohn of Gaunt by Ca- 
 therine Swinford, tvvoofthem, that is , Tho- 
 xnasdiikeof Excefter, axid Henry Cardinal ark!,inSvvin- 
 Bifhop of Wincheller , dyed without iffue,^^*^ 
 lohn the eldeft fonne that was carle of So- 
 merfet had iiruc two Tonnes, lohn and Ed- 
 Kiond y lohn that was dukeofSomerfet had 
 iniie one only daughter, named Margeret 
 who was married to Edmond Txddec carle i^Hiiyy, 
 of Richmondjby whom he had a fonne named 
 Henry , carle alfo of Richmond, who after 
 was afterward made king, by the name of 
 Henry the feueth,^ \m father to K.Henry the 
 eight, and grand faihertothc Q^aieftie that 
 now is,& this is the ifTue of lohn inc firft fonne 
 to the dijke of So merfer. 
 
 Edmod the fecod fonne to lohn earic of So^t!i€ da* 
 fncrfct, was firft carle ofMortainc, and thcnfc«^fs«* 
 after the death of his brother lohn ( vvho"***^ 
 dyed without ilTue male as hath bin faid) 
 was created by king Henry the fixtc duke 
 of Someifct , and both he and almoft al his 
 
 T / kynn 
 
J^^^^^^onjemce touching fuccefwn 
 kyn were Ikync in the quarrel of the faid 
 kmg Henry the 6. and for defence of the houfe 
 of Laca(ter3againftYork. Forfirft this Edmod 
 fofidor. himfelfe was flayne in the battel of S. Albaiies^ 
 Sb^zt"^" a^ainrt Richard duke and firfi: pretender of 
 Yorke.in the yearc 1456. Icauing behind hin% 
 Holiiugs three goodly ronnes,rowit,Henry Edmond Sc 
 Edvvadi ^vhercf Henry fuccedcd his father in the 
 
 4,pa.ni4duchy of Sommerfet, and was taken and be- 
 9ci$^. headed in the faaie quarrel at Exham,in the 
 yearc 1465. dying without ifTue. Edmond 
 Lkcwife fiicceded his brother Henry in the 
 duchy of Sommerfec , and was taken in the 
 battel of Tewkesbury in thefamequarrel^ and 
 ther beheaded the y.of May 1471. leauing no 
 iilew, lohn aifbthe th^rd brother marques of 
 Dorfet wa^iflayne in the fame battel of Tew- 
 kesbury, and left no ifTue, and fo in thefe two 
 noble men ceafed vttcrlyal the iflTue male of 
 thelineof Lancafter , by the children of loha 
 of Gaunt , begotten vppon lady Swinford his 
 third wife, fo that al which remayned of this 
 woman, was only Margeret Countelle of 
 Richmond, mother to kmg Hery the 7. which 
 king Henry they, and al that do defcende from 
 What him in Ingland, orout of Inglande , do hold 
 J<=^yf«^^^^the right of Lancafter, only by this third ma- 
 no^ to' *'*^g^^f Catherine Swinford, as hath binlhe-t 
 mamciii wed, and no wayes of Blanch the firft wife, or 
 of Conftance the fecond, and this is enough in 
 this place of the difcents of lohn of Giunt, and 
 ofthehoufeofLancallerp andtherfore I i hal 
 
 now 
 
now paffe ouer to Thew ihc ilme of the howfc 
 ofYork. 
 
 I Touched breeflv b:fore , how Edmondrhe 
 Langley duke of Yorke fourth lonne ^^''^g^ou^^f 
 Ed vardthe third, had two Tonnes, Edward loik. 
 caileof Rutland, and duke of Aumarie, that 
 fucccdcdhis father afterward in the duchy of 
 Yo,rke, and was flayne without childre vnder 
 king Henry the 5. in thebartaylc of Egencourt 
 in France, and Richard carle of Cambridge 
 %?vhich mariyedlady Anne Mortimer, as before ^.^j^^^^ 
 h3ih bin (aid , that was heyre ofthehoufe ofEaricof 
 Clarence, to Wit of Leonel duke of Clarence, 
 ferond (bnne to king Edward the third, bvttd. 
 ^vhich marriage he loyned together the two 
 titles, of the fecond & fourth (on nes of king 
 Edward, and being himfelfe conuinced of a 
 confpiracyagainft king Henry the /.was put 
 to death in Southampton in theyeareofChrift 
 1 4 1 J and third of the reygne of king Hery the 
 J. and fifrday of Auguft. 
 
 This Richard had iflue by lady Anne Mor- 
 timer a fbnne named Richard , who fucceded 
 his vncle Edward duke cf Yorke in the fame 
 duchy, and afterward finding himfelfe ftrong, 
 mideclaymeto thecrowne in the bchalfe of^^^^^f 
 hismother, and declaring himftlfe chiefe cfYotk 
 the fadion of the white roie , gauc occafion of ^^^"^ 
 many cruel bartailes againft them of the red 
 rofe and houfe of L^ncafter, and in one of the 
 baffels vvhich was giuenin the yeare 1460. 
 aiWakfilde, himlclfe w^flayne, Icauing be- 
 hind 
 
hind him three fonncs , Edwaid George and 
 Richard, wherof Edward was afiewaid king 
 cf Ingland by the name of Edward the fourth,, 
 George was duke of Clarence,and put to death 
 in Calls in a butteof feckeor rnalmefieby the 
 commandement of the king his brother,& Ri- 
 chard was Duke of Gloccftcr and afterward 
 king by murthering his ownc two nephcwes^ 
 and was called king Richard the third. 
 SdvTtrd Edward the eldeft of thefe three brothers, 
 iakcof which afterward was king, had iflTue two 
 xfng *hi^ fonnes Edward & Richard , both put to death 
 tfUc in the tower of London by thcr cruel vncle 
 Richard , he had alfo Hue daughters, the laft 
 fowrc wherof I dopurpofly oraitt,forihat of 
 none of them ther remayneth any iffuc, but 
 the eldeft of al named Elizabeth was marryed 
 to king Henry the 7. of the houfe of Lancaftcr, 
 and had by hira iflue, king Henry the 8. and 
 two daughterSjthe one marryed vnro Scotlad^ 
 wherof are difcended the king of Scots and 
 Arbella, & the other marryed to Charles Bran- 
 don duke of Suffolk, wherof are ilTued the 
 children of theearles of Hartford and Darby, 
 i« after more at large fhalbehandled,andthis 
 is theilfucof the firlt brother of the houfe of 
 Yorkc. 
 
 The fecond brother George duke of Cla- 
 rence had iflue by his wife ladylfabel heyre to 
 the earldomes of Warwick and Salisbury , one 
 fonne named Edward earle of Warwick, who 
 was put to death afcerwardin hi$ youth > by 
 
 King 
 
rothe<riJi^ne. Tart z. Cap. 11. 
 King Henry the 7. and left no ifluCj this duke 
 George had alfo one daughter named Marga- 
 ret admitted by King Henry the eight (at what 
 tyme he fent her into waies with the princeflc 
 \lary)to be coutefle of Salisbury^ but yet mar- 
 ryed very mcancly to a knight of vvales,naracd ^.j,^ i^^^ 
 Syr Richarjd Poole, by whom f he had fburcof ihc-> 
 fonnesjHenry, Arthur Geffrey, and Renald,^^^^ 
 ihc laftvvhecof was Cardinal, and the other 
 two Arthur and Geffrey had iffUc^ for Ar* 
 that haci two daughters Mary and Margaret^ 
 Mary was married to Sir lohn Stanny, & Mar- 
 garet to Sir Thomas fitzharbert. Sir Geffrey 
 Poole, had alfo iffuc an other Geffrey Poole, 
 and he had ilFuc Arthur and Gef&ey which yet 
 liuc. 
 
 Now then ro returnc to the firft fonne of 
 the counteflb of Salisbury named Henry, that 
 was Lord Montague, and put to death both 
 heandhi's mother, by king Henry the 8. this 
 man I fay, left two daughters, Catherine and 
 vvenefied, Catherine was married to Sir Fran, 
 cis Haftings earle of Huntington , by which Tlic Ijrnt 
 jnarriageifTued Sir Henry Haftings now earle 
 of Huntington , and Sir Georg Haftings his 
 brother, who hath dfuerschddren. And Wenc- The Bt. 
 ftedthc yonger danghter was married to Sir"»fi^^ 
 Thomas Barington Jcnight, who alfb wantcth 
 noti{Tue,anc! thisis of the fccond brother of 
 thchoufeof Yoikc, to wit, of the duke of 
 Clarence-. 
 
 The 
 
A Conference touching fuccefm 
 SAng xhe third brother Richard duke of Glocefief 
 andafcerwardkingjeftnoiffuc, foai>this is a! 
 ihac is needful to be fpoken of rhe houle of 
 York, in which we fee that the fiiftand prin- 
 cipal competitor isthekingof Scots, and after 
 hull Arbella^ and the children of the carles of 
 Hartford and Darby arc alfo competitors of 
 the fame houfe, as difcended by the diaughtec 
 of the firft brother, Edward duke of Yorke^and 
 king of England, and then the Earle of Hun- 
 tington and his generation , as alfo the Pooles^ 
 Barringtons, and others before named, are or 
 may be tulers of York^asdefcended of George 
 duke of Clarence, fecond fonne of Richaid 
 duke ofYorkc, all which ifTuc yet feme to re^ 
 mayneonly within ihecompalle of the houfe 
 ofYorke, for that by the former pedegre of the 
 iioufeof Lancafter it feemeth to the fauorers 
 ofrhishowfethat noneof thefe other copeti- 
 roisare properly of the line of Lancafter, for 
 that king Henry the 7. comrrting only of lohit 
 of Gaunt by Cathenn Swinford his third wife, 
 could haue no part in Lady Blanch that was 
 only inheritourofthat houfe, as to thefe men 
 feemeth euident. 
 
 Only then it renjaineth for the ending of thl$ 
 chapter, toexplane (ome what more clearly 
 the difcent of king Henry the 7. and of his 
 iliac, for better vndcrftanding vvherof you 
 n)uftconfiJer,thatking Henry rhe7.being of 
 the h<>ule of Lancafter, in the manner that you 
 hauchi^ard, and marrying Elizabeth the cldcft' 
 
 daughter 
 
totheml^ne. Tart i. Cap. II. jff 
 
 daughter of the contrary houfe of Yorkc , did 
 feemc loioync both houlcs together, & make 
 an end of that bloody controuerfie , though ifTucof 
 ochers now wil fay no^but how focuer that j^^H"^ 
 (which after fhalbe examined) clecie it is,that 
 he had by that mariage one only fonne , that 
 Itfcifiue, and two daughters, his fonne was 
 king Henry the 8. who by three (eueral wiues^ 
 had three children that hsue reigned after him, 
 to wit king Edwaid the 6. by Queene lane 
 Scymer, Queene Mary by Queene Catherine 
 ofSpaine, sind Queene Elizabeth by Queene 
 Anne Bullen, of al which three childicn no 
 illpe haihremayned , fo as now we muftrc- 
 turne to confider the ilTue of his daughters. 
 
 The eldeft daughter of king Henry the 7. iffy^^f 
 rained Margaret was married by her fifft ma- the lady 
 liage, to laipes the fourth king of Scots , who ^j^^ 
 hadilTuelamesihe y.&hcagaine Lady mary, 
 late Queene of Scots, and dowager of France, 
 put to death not long ago in Ingland, who Icfc 
 illue lames the 6. now kingof Scots. And by 
 ber fecond mariage the faid Lady Margeret 
 afterthe death of king lames the 4. tocke for 
 husband Archebald Duglas, earle of Anguys 
 in Scotlandjby whom f he had one only daugh^ 
 ler, named Margeret which was married to 
 Mathew Steward^ earle of Lenox, and by him 
 f he had two fonnes, to wit Hcry Lord Dariy, 
 and Charles Steward , Henry marryed the 
 forefaidi LaJy Mary Queene of Scotland & 
 was murthered in Edinbrough in the yearc 
 
'54 ^ Confer enee touching fuccefwn 
 lj66. as the world knoweth , and Charles hfs 
 broihctmarrycd Elizabeth the daughter of Sir 
 William Candifh in Ingland,by whom he had 
 one only daughter yet iiuing nanncd Arbclb, 
 an other competitor of the crown c of Jngland, 
 by the houfe of York^ , and this much of the 
 ifTuc of ^^^^ daughter of kingc Henry the 7. Mary the 
 xnai^ 2. fceod daughter of king Henry the 7.8c yorg^c 
 Ci\ci to (iftcr to king Henry the 8. was marred firft to 
 J^-Hcar/. Lcy^jj jj^g J z.kingof Fiaee, by whom f he had 
 noidue, and afterward to Charles Brandoa 
 duke of Suffolk, by who fhc bad twodaugb- 
 fers,to witt,Frances and Elenor,the lady Fian- 
 cis was marry ed firft to Henry Gray marques 
 of Dorfetj & after duke of Suffolk, beheaded 
 by Queene mary , and by him The had three 
 Lady daughcexs^ta vvit lane, Catherine, and Mary: 
 Fiandj. j^jy lanecldeft of rhe three, was married to 
 L. Guylfotd Diidly, fonnetolohn Dudly late 
 duke of Northumberland , with wlrom (I 
 meanc with her huf band & father in law) fhc 
 was beheaded foonc after for being proclay- 
 med Queene, vppon the death of king Edward 
 the 6xt ; the bdy Gatherine fccond daughter 
 inaryed firft the lord Henry Herbert earle of 
 Pcnbrokc,. and left by hym again fhe dyed af- 
 terward in the rower , wher ibe was priloner 
 forhauinghad cwochildre by Edward Seymer 
 rarle of Harttord ^ without fufGcient proofe 
 thiit f he vvas married vnto him, and rhe two 
 children arc yet liuing, to wit, Henry Scymef^ 
 commonly called lord Beacham , and Edwar'd 
 
 Scymer 
 
Seyrrter his brother. The hdymary the third 
 filler though The was betrothed to Arthur lord 
 Gray of vvilton, and maryed after to Martin 
 keyes gentleman porter ^ yet hath The left no 
 ilVjCy as far as I vndetdand. 
 
 This then is the end , of the iflae of Lady 
 Francis^ firftofchc two daughters of Queene 
 Mary of France by Charles Brandon duke of 
 Suffolk, for albeit the faid lady Francis, afrcc 
 the beheading of the faid Henry Lord Gray 
 duke of Suffolk her firft huf band , married 
 againe one Adrian Stokes her fcruanty fic had 
 a fonne by him , yet it liucd not» but dyed very 
 foone after» 
 
 Now then to (peak of the yonger daughter 
 of the faid Frenche Queene and duke, named ^j^^^Jj 
 Elinor , flie was married to Henry Clifford Suffolk. 
 EarleofComberlad, who had by I ^radaugh* 
 ter named Margaret that was married to Lord 
 Henry Stanley earle of Darby, by whom f he 
 hath a plentiful ilTue, as Ferdinand now earie 
 of Darby William Stanley^Francis Stanley, and 
 others, and this is al that neederh to be fpoken 
 ofthefedifcents of our Inglifh kings, princes, 
 peeresor competitors to the crowne for this 
 
 Elace,and therforc now it refteth only that wc 
 egin to examine what different pretentiona 
 are framed by diuers parties, vppon thefcdif^ 
 Tents and genealogies, which is the principal 
 point of this oar difcourre • 
 
 V OF 
 
OF THE GREAT AHD 
 
 GENERALL CONTROV^R- 
 
 5XB AND CONTINTION BETYVBEJJ* 
 
 thet'J^o 'houfes rojal oflancafier and Tork^ 
 4ind Ti^htcb of them majfeemeto hauc 
 hadthebetternghttothecroTi^nc 
 bjlPajoffuccefion. 
 
 Cap. nil. 
 
 AN D firft of al before I do dcfcend to treat 
 in particulerofthe different pretences of 
 feueral perfonsandfamilies , thathaue iflTued 
 out ofthefe two royal linages.of Lancafter and 
 Yoike, it f hal perhaps not be amiflc,to difcuffe 
 with (bme attention^ what is, or hath, or may 
 befaid, on both fides for the general contro- 
 uerfie that lyeth betweene thcm,yet vndefcided 
 in many mens opinions , notwithftanding 
 their hath bin fo much fturr about the fame, & 
 not only writing and dtfputing , but alfo figh- 
 ting and murthering for manyyeares. And 
 Jfau^'*^ truly ifwclookeinto diuers hiftories recordes 
 thor« and authors which haue written of this mat- 
 a^lnj^"* t^r? vvef hal find that euery one of them fpea- 
 this con- keth commonly according to thexyme whcrin 
 trottcifie- ih^y liued, for that al fuch as wrote in the 
 tyme of the three Henries, fourth, fift, and fixt, 
 kings of the houfe of Lancafter, they make the 
 title of Lancafter very cleare, and vndpubted, 
 but fuch others as wrote fince that tyme (whi- 
 les the houfc of Yorke hath held the fcepter) 
 ihey haue fpoken in far different manner^ as 
 namely 
 
tnthicrift^ne. Vdrt 2. Cap. I HI- S7 
 
 namely Polydor that wrote in king Henry the 
 8. his lyme, and others that haue followed him 
 fince, do take alright from the houfe ofLan- 
 cafter,and giue the fame to the houfe of Yorke, 
 wherfore the beft waye I fuppofe wilbe, not fo vit. Hcnr. 
 much to confider what hiftorioeraphers do 
 lay according to their aftections, or intere(ts,4.&ui 
 asvvhatreafons,andprofes be alleged ^^f^^c* An.fjg^'' 
 ry fide , for that by this, we fhal morecafely 
 come to iudge where the right or wrong doth 
 lye. 
 
 Firft therfore, the dcfendors of the houfc of ^j^^ 
 Yoikedoalleage, that their title is plaync andgationsof 
 "cuidenr, for that as in the former chapter hath^^/^^^^ 
 bin declared, Richard duke of Yorke firft pre- 
 tender of this houfe, vvhofe father was fonnc 
 10 Edmond Langlcy duke of Yorke, fourth 
 fonneof king Edward the third and his mo- 
 ther Anne Mortimer that was necceonce re- 
 moued, and fole hey re to Leone) duke of Cla- 
 rence, fecond fonneofthefaidking Edward, 
 this Richard (I fay;; duke of York pretended, 
 thatfor fo muchas he had two titles ioyned 
 ^ togetherinhimfclfe, :^nd was lawful hey re as ^ 
 vvel to duke Leonel the fecond brother , as to 
 duke Edmond the fourth, that he was to be 
 preferred in fucceffion ofthecrowne after the 
 death ofking Richard the fecond, heyreofthe 
 firft fonneof king Edward, before the iffue of 
 lohh of Gaunt that was but third fonnc to the 
 faid king Edward, and confequently that Hcry 
 Bolenbrook lohn of Gaunts fonne duke of 
 V 2. Lancaftcr, 
 
5S A Confermetouchmgfuccefton^ 
 Lancaftcr , called afterward king Henry the 
 fourrh,cmred the crowneby iyranv& violccc^ 
 firftfordepofingjthc true and lawful kingRu 
 chard, and fecondly for taking the kingdomc 
 vppon himfclfe, which kingdomc after the 
 death of the forefaid king Richard ('whicii 
 happened in the ycarc 1599) belonged to Ed^ 
 mondmottimcrEarle of march, then liuing, 
 and after his death to Anne Mortimer his fitter^ 
 marryed to Richard earle ofCabridge father to 
 this Richard pretendcnt duke of Yorke^as hath 
 bin faid, fot that this Edmond and AnneMor** 
 timer were children to Roger Mortimer (bnne 
 of Phillip that was daughter to duke Leonef, 
 vvhuh Lconel was elder vncle to king Ku 
 chard , and befoic lohn of Gaunt the yon- 
 gee brother, whole (bnne Cooke the crovvne 
 vppon him. 
 
 For the better vnderftanding of which prc- 
 T^^f^^tence and allegation of the houfe of Yoikc 
 contio againft Lancafter, we muft note the ftory folio-* 
 mwic!^ wing, to wit, that king Edward the third/eing 
 Xancaftcr in his old age , that prince Edward his cldeft 
 3: York, fonne, whom of al his children heloued moft 
 dearly, was deadc (though their wanted not 
 much doubt in feme mcs heads as after fhalbe 
 fhcwed who ought to fuccede) yet the old 
 man for rhc exceeding afFcdion he bare to 
 the dead prince, would hcare nothing in that 
 bthaift, hut appointed Richard the faid prince 
 Edwards only lonne and hcyre to fucced him 
 in the kingdotne^ and made the fame to be 
 
 ironiirmed 
 
tothicrdtKffii. Tart 1. Cap. HIT. 
 
 confirmed by a(5t ofparlamcnt, and inforccJ 
 al his children then a hue, to fvvcarc to the 
 Tame, which were lohn of Gaunt,dukc of Lan- 
 cafter^ his third and elded fonoe that theoU- 
 ucd, (for Leonel his fecond fonne duke of 
 Clarence, was dead before) and Edmond Lan- 
 gley and, Thomas Woodllock carles at that 
 tyme but after dukes of Yoike& Glocefter, & 
 foking Richard reigned with good obedience 
 ofhisvncles and their children for 20. ycarcj 
 together, but in the end when he grew info- 
 lent &: had put to death his vncle the duke of 
 Glocefter together with the earlc of Arundel, 
 and banil hed many others of the nobility, 
 and among them the Archbifhop of Can- 
 terbury ^ as al(b his owne cofin germaine 
 Henry duke of Hereford, & after of Lancaftcr, 
 fonne and heyre of lohn of Gaunt, and had 
 made many wicked ftatutes afwel againft the 
 church and ftate Ecclcfiaftical, as alfo to 
 tangle the realme and nobility with fayned lUchtri* 
 crymcs of trea(on againft his regaltie,as then 
 he termed them , the principal men of the 
 realme feing a fit occafion offred by the 
 kings abfence in Ireland, called home out of 
 France theforefaid Henry dukcof Lancafter, 
 with the Archbifhop of Canterbury, carles 
 of Arundel and Warwick, and others which 
 were in banifhmcnt, and by cdmmon confenc 
 gathered vppon the fuddaine fuch an army to 
 aflift them in Ingland, as they cook the king, ^jIJSj^^ 
 V 5 brought poGdoa. 
 
6o ^ A Conference touching fuccefton 
 brought him to London, and therein a parla- 
 inent laying together the intollerable faults of 
 hisgouetment , they depriuedhimofal regal 
 dignity, as before they had done to his great 
 grandfather king Edward the fecond , & then 
 by vniuerfal confent of the parlament and 
 people their prefent,theychore& admitted the 
 faidHenry dukeof Lancafter to be their king, 
 who continewed fo al the daies of his life, and 
 left the crowne vnto his fonme, and fonnes 
 fbnne,after him, by the fpace of threefcore yea- 
 res, vntill this Richard before named duke of 
 Yorke, madechalengeof the fame in manner 
 and forme as before hath bin f hewed, 
 checfe^ Now then the ftorie being this,the queftion 
 points ofisfirft:,wheihcr Richard the fecond wereiuftly 
 ttoucifi'c depofed or no, and lecondly whether after his 
 bctvvcc depofition the houfe of Yorke or houfe of La- 
 ^aft^j^^j carter fhould haueentred, and thirdly if the 
 York. houfcofLancafterdidcommitany wronge or 
 iniufticeat their firft entrance to the crowne, 
 yet whether the continuance of fo many yeares 
 inpo(Ieffi6n,vvithfo many approbations and 
 confirmations thcrof by the common wealth 
 were not fufficient to legitimate their right. 
 ThrccL^ Concerning which points many things are 
 pointc* alleaged by the fauourers of both families, and 
 king^Ri- pointe touching the lawfulnes ot 
 
 chards vnlawfulncs of king Richards dcpofiiion,threc 
 *poiiti6. articles efpecially do feememoftconfiderable^ 
 towit^ about the thing in it felfe whether a 
 lawful king may be depofed vppon iuft cau fes, 
 
 and 
 
to the cfoT^ftt. T4Yt 1. C A p. 1 1 1 1, if I 
 
 &fec5dly about thefe caufesin king Richards 
 depolition , to vvir, whether ihey were iuft 
 or lufficient for depofition of the faid king,an<l 
 laftly, about the manner of doing it , whether 
 the fame were good and orderly or not. 
 
 And touching the firft of thefe three pointer, ^ 
 which iSy that aking vppon iuft caufcs may be trcw k; 
 depofed I thinke both parties though ncuer fo^^^^j-^^ 
 contrary betweene themfelues, wil eafely 
 agree^ and the Ciuil lawyer fecraethto me to 
 haue proued it fo euidently before throughout 
 his vvholedifcourfe,as I thinke very lirlc may 
 be faid againft the fame. For he hath declared 
 (if you remember) both by reafon authority & 
 examples of al nations Chriftian^ that this ma/ 
 and hath and ought to be done , when vrgcnc 
 occafions are ofFrcd. And firft by reafon he f he- f^^^c^^ 
 weth it, for that al kingly authority is giuen 
 them only by the common wealth, & that with 
 this cxpreflc condition, that they f hal gouernc 
 according to law and equity, that this is the 
 caufe of their exaltation^aboue other men,that 
 this istheendofiheirgouermenr, the butt of 
 their authority , the ftarr and pole by which 
 thcyouehtto diced their fterne, towitt, the 
 .good ot [he people, by the weale of their fub- 
 K&Sy by the benefice of the realme, which end 
 being taken away or peruerted , the king bc- 
 commeth a tyrant, a Tigar, a fcarfe Lion , a 
 raucning wolfe , a publique enimy, and a 
 bloody murthcrer , which were againft at 
 feafon both natural and moral,that a common 
 
 V 4 wealth 
 
tt A Conference hucbhtg fuccepon 
 
 \vcalth could not deliuer ic fclfc from foerrl- 
 ncncadiftrudlion. 
 g.Atttho- By authority alfoyou haue heard it proucd,of 
 al law-makers,Philofophcrs,Lawyeis,Diuinet 
 andOoucrnpursof common vvealihes, who 
 hauefctdowne in their ftatgtes andordonan« 
 that kings f hal fwcarc and proteft at iheic 
 entrance to goucrmcnt, that they v vil obferuc 
 and performe ihc conditions their promiCcd,& 
 otherwife to haue no intereft io that dignity^fiC 
 (bueraintie . 
 
 3. Eiam* By examples in like manner of a! rcalme$ 
 chriftian he declared , how that oftcn-tymes 
 they haue depofed their princes for iuft cai»# 
 fc$y and that God hath concurred and affi* 
 fted wonderfully the-'fame , fending them 
 commonly very good kings after thofc that 
 vver«dcpriued,and in no country more then in 
 Ingland it felfe . yea in the very lync and fa- 
 milye of this king Richard , vvhofe noble 
 grand*father king Edward the third was ex^ 
 alted to the crowne by a moft folemnc dc* 
 pofition of his predeceflbr king Edwatd the 
 lecond , vvherforc in this point their can be 
 litlc controucrfic , and ihcrfore vvc fhal 
 palTc vnto the fecond, which is, vvhether 
 the caufesvvere good and iuft for which thi$ 
 king Richard was cfteemed worthy 10 be de- 
 
 thccaj" And in this fecond pointe much more dif- 
 <€$ vywefeicncc their ia betwixt Yoikc andl^ncafter^ 
 
tothtcYi^m. Tm 1. Cap. 1 1 11. 
 
 andtctwene the white rofe and the redd, foi^*^^ 
 that the houfe of Yorke feeking to make the Rich^"<ftf. 
 other odious, as though they had entred byP^^***- 
 tyrannic &cruehy, doih not ftick roaucuch, 
 that king Richard vvasvniuftly dcpofed, but 
 ^ainft this the houfe of Lancafter alleagech 
 firft,ihatthehow(eof Yorke ca not iuftly fayc 
 this, for that the chiefc prince afijftant toihc 
 depodng ofking Richard, was lordc Edmond 
 hymfelfe duke of Yorke and head of that fami. 
 lie, togetherwiih Edward earle of Rutland 5c 
 dukeotAntnarle, his cldeft fonnc and heyre, 
 yea andhisyongerlbnnealfo Richard eatleof 
 Cambrige, father to this Richard that novr 
 pretederh,for fo do write both StowHoIlingf- 
 head and other chroniclers of Ingland, that 
 thofe princes of the howfe of Yorke, did prin- 
 cipally affiftHery dukeof Lancafter in getting ^j,^ 
 thecrowne,afid depofiDgkingRichard,& Po-honfcof 
 lidor fpeaking of the wicked goueiment of^j?^^^ 
 king Richard* and of the firft cogitation about doer in 
 depofing him when king Henry of Lancafter ^jP^'*^^ 
 was yet in France, banilhedjtnd feeroed notchud. 
 to thinkeofany fuch matter, he hath thefc 
 words. Sed Edmundo Ekoracenfium duciytA nscum^^^y^^ 
 frimu b'tlm cmmomt , quad rex omnia iam iftr^^nii. 
 feruertercty quodantea pmicidio^ & poilea rapinis 
 fe ohjhinxijfet ^ &c. That is , this matter of 
 the wicked goucrment of king Richard, did 
 principally offend his vncle Edmond duke'* 
 pf Yorke, for that he faw the king now to** 
 
 V / perucrt'^ 
 
64 
 
 ^ Conference Uuch'mgfuccefm 
 
 peruert al law and equity, and chat as before he 
 » had defiled himfclfe with parricide, that is^ 
 o with the murther of his owne Vncle the duke 
 f, ofGloccfter, brother to this Edmond, fonow 
 he intangied him felfe alfo with rapine, in that 
 he tooke by violence the goods and inheri- 
 3> tanceoflohnofGaunt, late deceafed, which 
 ;„did belong to Henry duke of Lancafter, his 
 5* coftn germaine , by which wordes of Polidor 
 » as alfo for that the duke of Lancafter coming 
 p^fcro^^^^^^^ Britayne accompaned only with three 
 fticaa. fcoreperfons, ("as fome (lories fayjchofe firft 
 to goe into Yor^e-f hire and to enter at Ra- 
 uenfpurrat theraoutheof Humber, as al the 
 world knoweth (which he would neuerhauc 
 done if the princes of Yorke had not princi- 
 pally fauoured him in that adion)al this (I fay 
 is an euident argumet that thefe princes of the 
 houfe of Yorke were then the chiefe doers 
 in this depofition , and confequently cannot 
 alleage now with reafon that the faid Richard 
 was depofed vniuiUy . 
 Tcftimo- Secondly the houfe of Lancafter , allcagcth 
 Df of ^o- forthe iuftifying of this depofition^ the opi- 
 nions of al niftoriographers , that euer hauc 
 written of this matter, whether they be In- 
 glif h French Duch Latine,or of any other na- 
 tion or language, who al with one accord do 
 affirme, that king Richards gouermey^^vvas 
 
 he that wil fe more let him reade Thomas of 
 
 WaU 
 
uthtcifi^ne. Tart i. Cap. IJII. 
 Walfingham, and lohn Frofard in the life of 
 Jcing Richard. 
 
 Thirdly they of Lancaftcr do alleagc, thcThc enn 
 pariiculer outrages and infolenccs of king Ri-|f]Jtng^* 
 chardsgouerraent, andfirft thefuffring him-Kichaid. 
 felfe to be carryed away with cuil counfel of 
 hisfauoritesand thetheperuertingof al lawcs 
 generally vnder his gouerment, as before yoii 
 haue hard out of Polidor, the ioyning with 
 his mynios for oprefling the nobihty of which 
 Scow hath thefe vvordes. The king being at Bri- 
 ffoi^ T^ith Robert de Vere duke of Ireland, & Mi^^^^/IIpag.^s^ot 
 de la Pole Earle ofSuffolke^ deuifed boit^ to take a'j^ay ^cgni lu 
 she duke of Glocejier, the earles of ArundeUVVar'^kk^ 
 Darby, and Nottngham^ and others l^hofe deathes the^ 
 £onfpired: thus f^eth StoT^. And foone after they 
 executed thcmoft par oftheirdenifes, for that 
 Thomas of Woodftock duke of Glocefter, was 
 made away without law or procefTe , the earle 
 of Arundel alfo was put to death , and War- 
 wick was banifhed, and fo was alio Thomas 
 ArundelArchbifhop of Canterbury , by like 
 iniuftice, and the like was done to Henry duke 
 ofHereford, and after of Lancafter, and among 
 other infolences he fufFred Robert Vere to 
 dil honour and put from him his wife, a noble 
 and goodly yong Lady (as Stow fayeib ) and 
 borne of Lady Ifabel king Richards aunt , that 
 was / ughterto king Edward the third, andAgrcat 
 fuffrea Vere to marry an other openly to heria^o^^cy 
 difgracc and dishonour of her kynred. And 
 finaly in the lafi: parlamcnt that euer he held, 
 
 which 
 
€6 A Conference touching fueeefum 
 tvhich was in the ii. ycarc of his rcignCp 
 commonly called the euel parUment , he wouW 
 needs baue ai authority abfolutegrauntcd to 
 ceriaine fauourics of his , which Thomas 
 Walfingham faith, were hoc abouc 6. or 
 to determine of all matters with al ful au« 
 thority , as if they only had bin the whote 
 realme^ which was nothing in dcede but to 
 takeal authority to him felfc only, and StovV 
 in his chronicle hath thefe word^s following, 
 ^ ^This parlamut began dbout the i|. of September 
 pailat»€t in the jteare i J97. 4t the beginning T^hctof^ Ed-* 
 ^j^?- T^drd Stafford Bif bop of Exceter Lord Chancellor of 
 lidurd. Ingland made a propofuton or fermon , in i^hkh In 
 d^rmed that the po\»er of the king, Tbu/ alone , and 
 ferfitof it felfe^ and thofe that do impeatch itl^eri 
 T^ortljjto fujfer paine of the la^^ &c. thus faith 
 Stow, by al which is euiden% how exorbitant 
 and contrary to al law and equity thiskinges 
 gouerment was. 
 
 Fourthly and laftly , thofe of Lancafter do 
 J^^^alleagcfjr iuftifying of ihisdcpriuation, that 
 caitecil'duke Henry was called home by expreflc let* 
 led by tresof the more and better part of al the rc» 
 nqaeSk. alme, and that hecamevvholyfiin a manner) 
 vn-armcd confidering hisperfon, for that fro« 
 lard fayeth he had but three f hippes only out 
 ofBritanie, andWalHngham fauh he had but 
 WaTfm. Lances and 400. footmen , and the addi- 
 glttoi. tionstoPolychronicon as before I noted, do 
 auottch, that when he landed atRauenfpurr 
 
 in the 
 
tdthecToTtm. Tdrt i. Cap. II II. 6y 
 
 in the county of Yorkc> he had but thrcc- 
 (corc men in al to begin the reformation of 
 hisrealmeagainft ib potent a tyrant^ as King 
 Richard was then accompted, and yttvvas the 
 concourfe of al people fo great and general 
 ▼mo him, ibs^i within few dayes he achiued 
 the matter, and that without any baitailc or 
 bloodfhed at al, &thtts much for the iuftnes 
 cfihecaufe. 
 
 But nowifwcvvil confider the manner and 
 forme of ihis ad, they of Lancafter do ^^^^^^^^ 
 al(b that it could not be executed in better nor mannet 
 more conuenient order. Firft for that it vvas^^ 
 done by the choifc and inuitacion of al theK^chJid^ 
 realmc or greater and better parte therof as^^"^ 
 hath bin faid. Secondly for that is was done^^^ 
 vvithout flaughter, and thirdly for that the 
 king was dtpofed by ail of parlament, and 
 himfelfe conuinccd of' his vnworihy gouer- 
 ment, and brought to conftfle that he was 
 vvorthcly dcpriued , and that he willingly 
 and freely refigned the fame: nether can iheic 
 be any more circumftances required ffayc 
 ihefe men) for any lawful dcpofition of a 
 Prince. 
 
 And if any manwil yet obic<5l: and faye 
 that notwithttanding al this their was vio- 
 lence , for that duke Henry was armed and 
 by force of armes brought, this to pa(Ie» 
 they of Lancafter do anfwerc, that this is 
 true t that he brought the matter to an 
 
 end 
 
68 A Conference touching fuccefm 
 end by forces, for that an euel king cannos 
 Armcs be remoued but by force of armes ^ if we 
 forrcmo. cxpedl ihc otdinaiv way of remedy left by 
 uing an god vnto the common wealth, for feeing that 
 prijicc a tyrannical orobftinatc euel prince is an ar- 
 med enimye with his feet fet on the realmes 
 head, ccrtaine it is, that he cannot be driuen 
 nor plucked from thccc, nor brought in order, 
 but by force of armes. And if you faye that God 
 may remedy the matter otiierwife , and take 
 him away by ficknes, and other fuch meanes, 
 it is anfwered,that God wil not alwayes bynde 
 h^mfclfe to woorke miracles, or to vfecxtraor^ 
 dinary meanes in bringing ihofe things to paO- 
 fe,vvhich he hath left m the hands of men, & 
 of common wcalthes toeffeduat, by ordinary 
 way of wifdome and iuftice. As for example, 
 it were an eafy thing (fay thcfe men) for God 
 almightly alio when any wicked man brea- j 
 kcth his law, by theft muither or the like, to J 
 punifh him imediatly by death, or otherwife ' 
 himf:*lfe, &ycthewilnotfodoe, butwilhauc ' 
 the realme to punifh him, and that by force of 
 armcs alfoifotherwife it cannot be done, and < 
 thisafvvell for example, and terror of others 
 asalfoto ler men vnderftande that God hath 
 left power vppo earth to do iuftice in his name 
 when neede requireth. 
 ^/kTifgf And for particuler prefidents of punifhing 
 punif. ofcuil princes, in hke manner by force & vio- 
 cxtcrnal 'c"ce,when other meanes wil not ferue, thefe 
 iorcci. men fay that faefides al the great multitude of 
 
 examples 
 
^ (19 
 
 examples alleaged before by the Ccuil lawyer, 
 in his fourth chapter , about cuil kings dcpo- 
 fedjther is great variety of feueral manners how 
 the fame hath bin done , by Gods ownc ordi- 
 nance , recompted in holy write^ as firft when 
 thefcripcurc fayeth in the bookes of lodges 
 that Aod was' ftirred vp by God ^^''Eg'^" Kl„gE la 
 king of theMoabites that pcrfecuted the people flaync in 
 of H'rael, and the manner was ro feigne a fee ret 
 Embafladge or meflage vnto him,and fo to flay 
 him in his chambcr,as he did, & God deliucred 
 his people by that mcanes, and chofe this par- 
 ticuler vvay^vvheras none wil deny but that he 
 might hauedonc it by many other meanesieflc 
 odious to the world then this was, that fecmcd 
 fo cruel and ful of treafon. 
 
 Agayne they f hew that when God had reiec- 
 ted king Sauie for his wickednes , and deter- downc^ ; 
 myned todepofehim^hechofetodoitby ^^y^ j^^" 
 fingofDauidagainft him, and by defending 
 and aflifting Dauid both in armes andothcr- 
 wifediuers yeares againft Saule, and in the end 
 rayfcd the Philiftians alfo againft him, vvho ,.par. i»» . 
 after diuers battailes cut of his head , and car- vwi.p. 
 ried it vp and downc the country vppon a pole, 
 and presented it in al the temples of their Ido- 
 les,and in the end left it piched vp in the temple 
 of Dagon,al which God might haue fparedjSc 
 haue taken him away quiety Without blood- 
 fhed, if he would, but he chofe this fccond 
 %vay. 
 
 In Ii|ce manner when he would punifh king 
 Roboam 
 
70 A Confetentiimhtng fucfefton 
 Hoboam R^^oam for the finncs of Salomon his father^ 
 dtpokd and yet fpare him alfo in parte for the fake of 
 ^ibieL l^'5gf*"^^^^h^f Dauid , hecaufcd a rebclHon 
 oftcam- lobe rayfcdagainfthim by leroboarti hisfer- 
 uant, and more then three paitcs of fourc of 
 his people, to lebell againft him , and this by 
 Godsovvnc inftindt and morion, and by his ex- 
 prellc allowance therof aftct it was done ^ as 
 thefcfiptureauoucheih, and if Roboam had 
 fought againft them, for this fault (i»s once he 
 had thought todo and was prepared with a 
 iDaynearmy) no doubt but they might hauc 
 hwfuiiy flaynchim , for tha-tnow thefc tcnn 
 tribes that for-fookehim had iuft authority ta 
 Ic " dcpofe him, for his cue! gouermcM, and for 
 not ycalding to cheir iuft requeft' made vnto 
 him,for cafing them of thofc greuou^ tributes 
 ».?araitp. laid vppon them, as the fcriptute reporteth.For 
 cap io. albeicGodhada meaning to punith him, for 
 the finncs of his father Salomon, yet ftiffrcd he 
 that Roboam alfo fhouldgiuc iuft occafion 
 himfclfe for rhe people to leaue him , as appe- 
 rrthby the ftory,and this is Gods highevvif* 
 dome iuftice,prouidcnee,and fwetedilpofitloa 
 in humane affaires. 
 
 Another example of ptinifhing and depo- 
 lo^am H ^'^^ ^^^^ Princes by force , they do alleage out 
 his mo- of the firft booke of kmgs, wher God appoin- 
 Md'e^^' led Elizcus the Prophet to^fend the fornix of an 
 fed b/^' other Prophet toannoynt lehu , Caprainc of 
 force. loram^kingoflfracl, which loram w.^s fonnc 
 lothcQjiecnc Iczabd, and coperfuade leha 
 
 to take 
 
^^^f^hecro^neTvart u Cap. IIII. 71 
 
 to take armes againft his faid king, and againfl: 
 his mother the Queenc, and todepriuc them 
 both^noc only of thdt kingdomes but alio of 
 their hLies,and fo he did, for the fcripture faith, 
 Coniurauit Brgolehu contra loram. lehu did con.^-^^fr^ 
 iure and con£pire at the perfuafion of this Pro- 
 phet, vvirh the reft of his fellow Captaines, 
 againft his king loram , and Q^neene lezabel 
 the kinges mother J to put them downe , and 
 to pur them to death with al the ignomy he 
 cuuld deuife^ahd God allowed theiof, and per- 
 fwaded the fame by fo holy a Prophet as Eli- 
 zeus was^wherbywe maye alFure our fclucs 
 that the fad was not only lawful! but alfo mofir 
 go Jly, albeit in ic fclfc it might feeme abhomi- 
 nable. 
 
 And in the fame booke of kings within two ^ 
 chAprers after, there is an other example how Athalft 
 God m'3ued loiadahigh prieft of Icrulalem to l^^^l^"^^^ 
 perfuadethe Captaines and Coronels of that 
 cittycto confpire againft Athalia theQueene 
 that had reigned 6. yeares , and toarme them ^.^cg.xi, 
 felues with the armor of the temple, for that 
 purpofc,and tobefeige the pallace wher fhc 
 lay, and to kill al them that fhould offer or goe 
 about to defend her, & fo they did, and hauing 
 taken herahue, fhevvasputto death alfo by 
 fenrence of the faid high prieft , and thefa(3: 
 j was allowed by God,and highly commended 
 I in the fcripture, and loas yong king of the 
 blood royal was crowned in her place,& al this 
 might haue bin done as you fee without fuch 
 
 X trooble 
 
whe- 
 ther Lan 
 
 71 A Conferencefouem 
 
 trouble of armes,& bloodfhcd, ifGod vvonlcf^ 
 but he appointed this feueral meanes for wor- 
 king oft is wil, and for releeuingof common 
 malthes oppreflcd by euel princes. And this 
 feemeth fufficienr proofe to theic men, that 
 king Richard of Ingland might be remoued 
 by force of armes,his life and gouerment being 
 foeuel and pcinitious as before haih binfhc- 
 Nved. 
 
 .wv, If remayneth then that we parte to the (e- 
 
 cafterot cond principal pointe propofcd in the bcgi- 
 f houU^ ning, which was,fhai fuppofing this depriua- 
 liauc cn- tion of king Richard was iuft and lawful, 
 ITifgRU^vvhat houfe by right fhould haue fucceded 
 chaid. him, ether that of lacafter as it did^or the other 
 ofYorke. 
 
 Andfirrtofalit is to be vnderflood, that at 
 that very lyme when king Richard was de- 
 
 f^ofed^thehoufecf Yoike had no pretence or 
 ittle at al to che ciowne, for that Edmond 
 Mortimer earlecf march, nephew to the lady 
 Philhp, was then aliue, with bis fifter Anne 
 Monymer marryed to Richard eaile of Cam- 
 brige, by which Anne the howfe of Yoike did 
 after make their clavme, but could not do Co 
 yet, for that the faid Ecroond her brother wag 
 liuing, and fo continued many yeares after, 
 as appeareth , for that wee reade that he 
 was aliue 1 6. ycaies after this, towirt, in the 
 third yeare of the raigne of king Henry the 
 fift when his (aid brother in law, Richard 
 carle of Cambrics was put to death, in South* 
 
 hampton 
 
to the crol^ne. Vart i. Cap. ITT. 75 
 himpton whom thi? Edmond appe^ched as 
 afcerfhalbc fhewed, and that this Edmond 
 was now earle of March when king Richard 
 vvas depofcd, and not his father Roger i^as Po- 
 lidor milhketh) is enidenr,by rhac that the faid i*^n^or T. 
 Rog^:r was fl.iync in Ireland, a htle before theKichard!' 
 depolitio of King Richard,co witt, in the yr^are 
 IJ98. and not many monethes afcer he had 
 bin declared hevre apparent by king Richard, 
 and Rogers father named Edmond alfo, huC- 
 band of the lady Phillip , dyed fbme three 
 yeares before him , that is, before Roger, as 
 after wilbe (ecne, fo as feing that at the de^ 
 pofition of king Richard , this Edmoi.d Mor- 
 limerelder brother to Anne was yet li'-ing, 
 the qucftion cannot be whether the houfe 
 of Yorke fhould haue entred to tiiecrownc 
 prefently afrer the dcpriuation of kinge Ri- 
 chard ^ for they had vet no pretence as harh 
 binfhewed, bi)t whether this Edmond Mor- 
 timer, as heyrc of Leoncl duke of Clarence, 
 or els Henry the dake of Lancafter heyre of 
 lohn of Gaunt fhould haue entted- For as 
 for the houleof Yoike tlieirwas yet no quc- 
 ftion, as appereth alfo by Scow in his chro-^5^^|« 
 nicle, who fetteth downe how that afcer thcchaidX 
 faid depofition of Richard, the Archbifhop of 
 Canrerbiuy afked the people three tymes^ 
 whom they would haj ceo be their king, whe- 
 ther the duke of Yorkc their (landing prefenc 
 or not , and they anfwered no : and then he 
 afked the fcconde tymc if they would hane his 
 
 >X 1 ddeft 
 
74 ^. Ccnferemefeuchingfuccefton, 
 
 elded fonne, the cuke ofAumaile, and th'^ 
 faid no, he alked the third tyme^yf ch. y wo.ilJ 
 haue his yongtftlonne, Richard carle of cam- 
 bridge, and they faid no. Thus write »h Stow, 
 vvher.'by it is euident, thatalbui this eaile cf 
 Cabridge had married nowihc hfterufEdrood 
 Moicinier^by whom hispofterity claymed af- 
 leiward, yet could he not pretend at ihistyme^ 
 1 cr brothel bt mgyctaliue , who after d\ing 
 vvnhout ilTueJefc a) his right ro her , & by her 
 to ihf houU of Yoikc : for albeit rhiseaile Ri- 
 chard neuc r came ro be duke of- Yoi ke/or that 
 he was beheaded bv king Henry the fift at 
 South mptc n as before haih bu» fiid , v?hile 
 his tldci brorher was a lyue^yei left he a fonnc 
 ramtd Ruhaid , that aftei hym came to be 
 dukeof Yoike, by the death ofhisvncleEd- 
 munddukeofYoikcthntdvcd without ifiue^ 
 as on the other fide alfoby his mother Anne 
 Klortimer,he was earlc of March, and was tl e 
 fiiftof thehoufeof Yorke that made title to 
 theciownc. 
 
 ^^^^^ So(hattheqncftionnow is, whether after 
 thft the ^1'- depofition of king Richaid, Edmond Mor- 
 title of timer nephew rc rhoued of Leonel^A hieh Leo- 
 dukc^cf' ^^35 the fc cond lonne to king Edward) or 
 rarca(^« els Hc nrvdukeof Lancafter, fonneiolohn of 
 iancluc Gaunt (which lohnvvas third fonne to king 
 r^t'ed lo Edvvan ) fhould by right hauc fucceded to 
 ^i'ird.^' king Richjid,and for Edmond isalleaged,that 
 he wa»» hey re of ihe cider brother, and for Hery 
 is laid, that h« was nccrti by two degrees to 
 
f$ thtao^^ne. Tart i. C a p. 1 1 1 1. 7f 
 
 the ftemmeorlaftking.ihatisrofay , to king 
 Richatd depofed,{hcn Edmondwas, for that 
 Heiify was (onnetoking Richaids vncle of 
 Lancafter, andEdmondvvas but nephew rc- 
 n^uued, that -6 (O fay, daughters fonncs fonnc, 
 to ihe laid king Richards other vnclc of Yoike. 
 And that in fuchacafe, the next in degree of 
 conf^ngoinitie^co the laft king, is to be prefer- 
 red (though he be not of the elder lyne) ihe fa- 
 noureis of Lancafter alleage m.iny proufcs, 
 wheiofibme f halbe touched a htle afcei;& we 
 hauefeene the fame pradized in ourdayes ia 
 France, where ihe Carduial of Buibune by the 
 indgement of che mod part of that realme^was 
 preferred to the crowne for his propinquiry itt 
 blood to the dead king, before the king of Na* 
 uarre,r hough he were oft heclder lyne. 
 
 Moreouer it is alleaged for Henry thnt his 
 title came by a man, and the others by a wo- ^^^^^ 
 man, which is not fo much fauourcd eith t is by a 
 by nature law or reafon , and fo they faye^^®*^** 
 that the pretendcrsof this title of lady Phil- 
 lippe that vvasdaughtei of duke Leonel, ne- 
 wer opened their mouthes in thofc daycs to 
 clayme, vntil fome 50. yearcs after the de* 
 pofition & death of king Richard. Nay more stoTv 19 
 oucr they of Lancafter lay , that Irxteene^.^^'"^'^* 
 yeares after the depodtjon or king Richird, si-ic^n^ 
 when king Henry the fift was now in pt/f- 
 ielfion of the crowne , certavne noble 
 ine,t^ efpecially Richard eaile of Giml^ndge^ 
 that had matrjcd this EJiro id Mommas' 
 
 X 5 fift^^r 
 
7 5 A Conference touching fuceefion 
 
 lifter, oftred to haue flayre king Henry and 
 rol.aue made the faid Edmod Motrytrer kinge, 
 for that he was dikended of duke Leonel , but 
 he refuftd the matter, thinkin g it nox to be ac- 
 coiding to equine, and fo went and difcouered 
 the Vr hole treafon to the king, wheiup^jothey 
 ^j^^^^j^^ were al pot to death in Southampton^ wiihm 
 cfcam- fuwie or fiuc dayes after, as before hath bin 
 ccu^trcT* *^^^^^d,and ihishapencd in thcye^re i4ij.and 
 *orcon. f^om hence foieward votil ihr yr ate 1451. and 
 fpiiacy. jhitrech of the reignc of king Henry the flxt, 
 which was 36 yeares after the: execution, done 
 vppon thefe conlpitatois, no more mention or 
 prcjece wasmadf^ofrhis matter, at vvhatiymc 
 Richard duke of Yorke began to moue ttoo- 
 birs about it againe. 
 
 Thus fay t hofe of the houfc of Lancafter,but 
 nowihefe cfYorke haue a great argument for 
 An cbic-^hemfchies, asto them it feemeth, which is, 
 ^oufor that inihe yea eofChriil 1505. and 9. yeare 
 ?h«£d reigne of king Richard the fecond it 
 
 tDcud vv:s declaredby aftcf pailament ( as Pohdor 
 mer^vvas^'ii'^^^i) ^^at Edm.ond Mortimer, who had 
 declared m^rryed Pbilhp daughter & heyre of Leonel 
 pSc'nr*' vHike of Clarence, and was grandfather to the 
 poiydorl. laft Edmcndby me named, fhould be hcyrc 
 stovv. in ^Pp^f^nr to the crovvne , if the king fhould 
 ?it PJch. chance to dye without ifTuc. 
 aaa.ij^s which obifdtion thofc of Lancafter do 
 
 anfv^'ere,fiift, that Polidor doth err in the per- 
 ron,vvhenhe fayeththat Edmond hufband of 
 lady Philippe was declared fur heyre apparent, 
 
 tor that 
 
te the m^nt. Tart i. C a p. 1 1 1 1. 77 
 
 for that his Edmond Mortimer that mirriecj 
 lady Philippe, dy^d peacably in Ireland three 
 ycaies before this parlament was holden, to 
 vvitt,in the yeareof Chrift 1381. as both H oU HoHmgr. 
 lingf head Stow and other chroniclers do tefti- J^f^^^^^J^j, 
 fie,and thcrfore Polidordoth erre not only in z. pag. ' 
 this place about this man, but alfo in that in an ^^^^^ 
 other place hefayeth, that this Edmond fodc- ijsi. 
 clared heyre apparent, by king Richard, was 
 (layneby the Infh in Ireland ii.yearcs after 
 this declaration made ofthe fucceflion, to wit Polydor ^ 
 in the yeare i}94. which was in deede not j'^^ *^* 
 this man,biu his (onne Roger Mortimer,heyrc 
 tohim, and to the Lady Phillip his wife who 
 was declared heyrc apparent, in ihcparlament 
 afore faid^at the inftance of king Richard, and 
 that for efpecial hatred & malice (as thefe men 
 fay) vhich hedid beare againft his faid vncle 
 thedukeof Lancafter, and his (bnne Henry, 
 whom he defired to exclude from the fuc- 
 ceflion. 
 
 The caufcof this hatred, is faid tobe,fprthat The^ 
 prefenrly vppon the death of prince Edward ^^^^^^^^^^^ 
 father to this Richird, which prince dyed in twcene 
 the yeareofChrift 1 376. and but 10. monethes ^hafd^d 
 before his father king Edward the third : their the hoafc 
 Wanted notdiucrs learned and wife men in ^j^^*^' 
 Ingland , that were of opinion that lohn of 
 Gaunt duke of Lancafter, eldefllonne then li- 
 uingof the faid king Edward, fhould haue 
 fuccededhis father, iure propinquitatis y before 
 Richard that was but nephew, and one degree 
 
 X 4 further 
 
A Conference touching fucce fm 
 further of then he , but the old king was Co 
 exiremly aftcftjonate vnto his cldcft fonne, 
 the blacke prince Edward, ncvvl)^ dtad, thac 
 he would not heare of any to lucccde him 
 lohn fro-(^^ Frofard faith) but only Richard the (Iiid 
 lard in princcs fonnc. Wherfore he called prcfently 
 a parlament, which was the laft that euer 
 he bdd, and theiin caufed his faid nephew 
 Richard to be declared heyte apparent , and 
 made his three Tonnes then liuing, that were 
 \nclcs to the youth, to wiitlohn of Gaunt, 
 duke of Lancafter^and Edmond Langhly duke 
 afterward of Yorke, and Thomas woodftock 
 duke ofGlocefter , to fweare fealtie vnroRi- 
 chaid, as they did. And albeit lohn of Gaunt 
 al his life after, for kepmg of his oth that he 
 had made vnto his father ^ neuer pretended 
 any right to the crownc, yet king Richard 
 knov\ing wel the pretence that he and his 
 might haue, was ftil afraid of him, and fought 
 infinite meancs to be rydd of him , fiift by 
 perfwading him to goe and make warr in 
 Spainewher he thought he might mifcany in 
 rolydon dangerous an attempt, and then offering 
 Movv^n^^ giue him al AqiJUaine if hewculd 1 aiic 
 vira^Ri- Ingtaud to goc Sc liuc ihe e^ as he did for three 
 chatdi » yeare?,vvith cxircmcpeii!, for that rhc people 
 uf Aqiiitai: e \r.ould nor receaue him, but 
 rofe agaiiift him , and refultd his gouer- 
 rrcnt , rmd would not admiii him fur thtir 
 Lord, bur aprealed to the king , who alio 
 atlluwed iLtiuf, and fo when lohuofGaont 
 
to the cro^ne. Van 2. C A p- 1 1 1 1. 79 
 came home into Ingland againe, kinge Ri- 
 chard thought no better way to weaken him, 
 then to banifh his Tonne , Henry duke of 
 Herford , and fo he did. And befides this, 
 the king^Richard pracftiTed alio bydiuers 
 feciet drifts , the dejth of his faid vncle the 
 ^ukeofLancafter, as Walfingham wimefTeth 
 and when the faid duke came at lenghte lo^itRi- 
 dye, which was in the 22. yeareof king Ri. pa^^^^t* 
 chards raigne he wrote fuch ioyous Ictteiso^ I44« 
 therof (as froflaid faith) to his father in law 
 thefixtCharles kingof France, as though hel^ljfjn'^^ 
 had bin dehuered of his chiefeft enemy,noi im- vu. Hetu 
 magining that his ow'ne diftru(5l:i5 was (b necre 
 at hand^and much accelerated by the death of 
 the faid duke,as it was. 
 
 Andihefc were the caufes, fay the fauo- 
 rers of the houfe of Lancafter , v^.hy king 
 Richaid caufed this ade of parlament to 
 palfe in fauour of Roger Mortimer^& ^"P*^^' vvh 
 iudice of the houfe of Lancafter, and not forgci Mor- 
 that t^ic right of carle Mortimer, was bet-Jj^^^*^'^^ 
 ter then that of the duke of Lancafter. And cu ted 
 this they fay is no new thing for princes ^f)'^^ 
 oftei tymesto procure partial law-es to paflc^*^^^^* 
 in pulnmenr, for miatter of fucceiTion , ac- 
 cording to their owne afFedions, for the like 
 (fay they^ did Edward the ihird procure m 
 the fauour of this Richard , as before I hauc 
 f hewed in the laft parlament , bifore his 
 death, and atcerward againe king Richard 
 ihe thiid with much mere optn iniuftice^ 
 
 X S caufei 
 
So A C onfercfice touching fuccef ion 
 caufcd anaftofparlamenc lopailein hisdaycs^ 
 rvherby his nephew lohn de la pole earic of 
 
 ^^vit"li ^*"^^^"^>^^"''*^ ^^^^^ Elizabeth duchellc 
 Saldr ofSuffoIke, was declared heyre apparent to 
 Icm*^^/ the ciowne, excluding ihetby the children of 
 Edvflrd his two elder brothers, to wit the daughters of 
 #.pa,j7i5 king Edward the fourth, and (he fonne and 
 daughter of Gcorg duke of Clarence , vvhirh 
 yet by al order fhouldhaue gone before iheir 
 fillers children. 
 
 And like facilirie founde ki g Henry the 
 8* to get theconfent of two parlaments, to 
 giuc him authority toappointe what fucceflTor 
 he would , of his owne kynred , by whic h au- 
 thority afterward he apoinied by his tc ftament 
 fas in an other place fhalbe f hewed) that the 
 ifliicofhisyongcr filler mary , fhoiild be pre- 
 ferred before the iflue of his cldeft filler Marga- 
 ret, of Scotland, 
 flrhede- A like declaration was that al(o, of king 
 dataiioii Edward the fixt, of late memory- who ap- 
 
 or King , 1 I • ^ I ^ 
 
 Bdv/ard pointed, the lady lane Gray his colen germane 
 uourof J^^^o^^^ • be his heyre and fuccefior in the 
 the Lady crownc of Ingland , and excluded his owne 
 Gis^ ivvofiftcrsjihe lady Mary and the Ldy Eliza, 
 beih from the fame; but rhele declaratios make 
 litletothepurpofe when right and equity do 
 repugne,as thefe men fay that it did,in the fore 
 iaid declarati5 of Roger Moi timer, to be heyre 
 apparent, for that they hold and auow the 
 houfcofLancaftcr, to haue had the true right 
 coeacer,noionIy after the death of kingRi* 
 
 chatd 
 
tothecroT^ne. Part i. Cap. HIT. 8i 
 
 chard the fecond (as it did)but alfo before him, 
 that is tofay,immcdiatly vppon the death of 
 king Edward the third, for that lohn of Gaunt 
 was then the eldeft fonne^w hich king Edward 
 had lyuing, aijd neerer to his father by a de- 
 gree, then was Richard the nephew. About 
 which pointe to wit, whether the vncle or 
 the nephew! hoiild be preferred in fucceffion 
 cfkingdonies, it feemech that in this age of 
 K. Edward the third there was grear trouble, 
 and conrrouerfy in the world abroad, for lo te- 
 ftifieth Girard du Haillan Counceler and fecrc- 
 tary of France,in his ftory of the yeare of Chrift 
 1 346. which was abour the middeft ^^"S^jf^jj^^ 
 Edwards reigne , and theifore no maruaileHaiiianL 
 though king Edward tooke fuch care '^^^'^^ ^^'^^1,^1, 
 fure eftablifhing of his nephew Richard inti#"' 
 fucceflion, as is before related. And miichlcflc 
 maruail is it if king Richard had ftil great ie- 
 lofyofh^s vncle the duke of Lancafter, and of 
 his oflpiing, confidering how doubtful the 
 queftion was among the wife and learned of 
 ihofedayes. For more declaration whcr-of I 
 thinke it not amifle to alleage the very v vordes 
 of the forefaid chronicler with the examples 
 by him recited, thus then he vvriteth. 
 
 Aboutthis tyme (Tayeih he} iheirdid arifea^yi^^^ 
 great and doubtful queftion in the wor]d,whe-thci vn- 
 thervncles ornephewes,thatis toray,theyon-jj^gp,J*^ 
 ger brother, or els the children ofthe elder, wcs to be 
 fhould fucced vnto realmes andkingdomes,?^^/^"/^ 
 y vhich CQtiouerfy put al chtii^ianity into great cei&ga. 
 
 bioyles 
 
Si A Conferencefouchtngfuccefm-. 
 ^> broyles and trooblts For fiill Charles thefecod 
 ^> king of Naples begat of Mary his wife Quccnc 
 and heyre of Hungary , diuers children, but 
 ^, narticly three Tonnes, Mirrel,Roberr,and Pnil* 
 j> lip,Marf( l dying before his father Ufc a fonne 
 ^» named Charles, which in his grandmothers 
 5> right was king alio of Hungary, but abouc 
 ^> the kingdome of Niples the qutlbon vvas^ 
 9} when king Charic s vvas dead,w ho fhould (be 
 S^ceedhim, either Charles his nephew king of 
 ^5 Hungaiy, or Robert his fecond ionne,b«)t Ro- 
 i> bert was preferred and reygned in Naples, and 
 j>enioyed the earldome of Piouince in France 
 jjalfojforihefpaceofjj.yeares with gieat re- 
 »y nowneof valor & wildome. And this is one 
 5) example that Girard recounteih, wh ch exam* 
 pie is reported by the famo^ lawyer B iriholut 
 Foiirem. in h is commentaries;, touching ^he fucccffion 
 ^J^g|j^";ofthekingdoirec:f Siciha, ai.d he faith, that 
 «cd. this fuccelljon oft he vncle before the nephew, 
 j> wasauerredaifo for rightful by ihelearend of 
 ^> that ly me»and confit d for iuft by the iudicial 
 5> (entence of Pope Boniface.and that for the tea* 
 ^» funs which afterward fhalbe f hewed, whea 
 we fhal treat of this cjueftion more in par- 
 y) ticulcr. 
 
 Thefc- Another example alfo reportcih Girard, 
 corid cK which infued immediativ after, in the fame 
 tacvnclc. pl ice, for that the for faid king Robert, haning 
 a fonne named C harles , which dyed before 
 >) him, he left a daughter and heyre named loan, 
 $9 ncccc vnco king Rgbcu,wbich loan was mar- 
 lied 
 
 Barthol, 
 in autcnt 
 
^towecrol^m. Tart 2. Cap. HIT. 85^ 
 ried to Andrew cheyonger fonne of the foie- 
 faid Charl<rs king of Hungary , but kingRo- 
 beii b/mgdeadjiher ftcpc vpone Lewis prince 
 cfTananto, a placcof the fame kingdomc of 
 N iplt!>,v\ bo was (onne to Phillip bcfurc meg- 
 nonedjvongerbrocher to king Robert, which 
 Lewis pretending his right to bebt^tts^^r rhcii 
 ihatoffoin for chat he was a man,and one de- 
 gree neerer to king Charles his grand father 
 then foan wa<?, (furthu he was nephew and 
 f he rje«cohceremoued) h^preuailed in hke 
 manner, and thusfirr Gcrrard hiftoriographer 
 ©f France. 
 
 And no doubr^ but if we confider examples, f. 
 that fA\ out euen ni this very age only, concer- fj^'^j^'^f 
 ning fhisconrrouerficr bctweene the vncle and rhe vnclc 
 nephew , we i hnl finde (lore of them : for in fjf/°n^ 
 Spaine nut long before this ty me, to wir,in the phcvria 
 yeare of Chnll 1276. was that great and fa-jf^y"^- 
 moiis determination made by Don Alonfo the nT^ cip. 
 Vvi(e,elenfnthkingoftbat name, andofal his 
 realmeand nobiHxy in their couites or parla-*^^^* 
 tncmofSegouUy mentioned before byiheCi- 
 tnlian, wherin they dilinherited the children 
 of the prince Don Alonfo dc la Cerdathn dyed (as 
 our prince Edward didj before his father, and 
 madeheyrc apparent Don Sancbobrauo yongec 
 brofherto the faid Don Alonfo^ and vncle to his - 
 children, the t.voyongCerdas. Which fentcce 
 ftandcth euen vnto this day, and king Phillip 
 cnioyeth the crowne of Spaine therby and the 
 ^ukci of Medina Cdi andthe^r race that arc 
 
 difcen- 
 
^4 A Conference touching fuccefm 
 difcendcntes of the faid two Cerdas , which 
 were put backe, are fubicds by that fentence, 
 and not foueiaines, as al the world knowtth. 
 An other The like conrrouerfie fel out bin very htle 
 «3mpic^ after, ro wit in the cyme of king Edward the 
 !md FUn^ thitd in fface,though not about the kingdome, 
 but about the earldome of Arroys, buryxtt ic 
 was decided by a Tolemne fenience of two 
 kings of France, and of the whole parlament 
 of Paris, in fauour of the aunte againft her 
 nephew, w hich albeit it coft great troubles: yet 
 was it defended, and kingPhiUip of Spainc 
 holdeth the county of Arroys by it at this 
 day,Polidor reporteth the ftory in this man- 
 ner. 
 
 Robert earlc of Artoys a roan famous for 
 his chiualry, had two children, Phillip a fonne 
 and Maude a daughter, this maude was mar- 
 FoHdorl. ryed to Otho carle of Burgundy, and Phillip 
 idmrdi ^X^^g before his father,left a fonne named Ro- 
 h bertthefeconcf, whofe father Robert the firft 
 being dead,' the queftion was who fhould 
 fucccde, ether maude the daughter or Robert 
 the nephew, and the matter being remitted 
 vnto Phillip le Bel king of France , as chiefc 
 Lord at that ty me of that ftatc, he adiugcd it to 
 Maude^as to the next in blood, but when Ro- 
 bert repyned at this fentencc , the matter was 
 referred to the parlament of Paris, which con^ 
 firmed thcfentenceof kingPhiHip, wher vp- 
 fon Robert making his way with Phillip de ^ 
 VAoys that foonc after came to be king of ^ 
 
 J'rancc, ' 
 
france, heafTiftedrhe faid Phillip earnrftly V9 
 b wg him to the crownr^ againit king Edward 
 of Ingland ihat oppoicd hiinielfechciunto.and 
 by this hoped rhat king Phiil'p would haue rc- 
 iiok^d rhe fame flnrence, but he being once 
 eft blirhediiithecrovvnean(wcred,ihara fen- 
 tenccofluch importance and Co maturely gu 
 uen,could not be leuoked. Whcruppon the 
 faid Robert fled to the king of Inglands part 
 againft fiance,thus far Pohdor. 
 
 The very like feniencerecounteth the (^^^ ^^/'^^^^ 
 author to haue bin giue in Jutland at th^ fame example 
 tyme, and in the fame controuerfie, of the^^^"^*«* 
 vncleagainft the nephew, for the fucceifion 
 to the dukedcmeof Biitany , as before I haue 
 related,wherin lohn Breno earleof Montfbrd, 
 vvas preferred before the daughter ai d hq rc 
 ofhis elder brother Guy, though he were hue 
 offhchalfe blood to thelaft duke, and fhe of 
 the whole. For th^t lohn the third duke of 
 Britanny, had two brothers, firftGuy of the 
 whole blood, byfatherand mother, and then 
 John Breno his yonger brother by the fatheis 
 fide only. Guy dying, left a daughter and heyre 
 named lane, mariied totheearleofBloys , ne- 
 jphew to rhe king of France, who after the 
 ieaihcfduke lohn pretended in the right of 
 his wife, as d^ughterand beyre to Guye the 
 cider brother; but king Edward the third with 
 theftate of Ingland , gauc fentenrc for loha 
 Breno, earle of Montfoid her vncle, as for hitn 
 th^c vvas next m confanguinicy to the dc ad 
 
 duke^ 
 
8(5 A c^mum^^^^^on 
 
 duke,and with their artnes the ftatc of Ingt^nd 
 did pat him in pofTeffion who flew the eaile of 
 Suprac. 2 Bloys as before hath bin declared , and ther-by 
 gat poflTeifionof that realme and held it tuer 
 afcer,and fo do his heyres at this day. 
 Another And not lon^ before this ajjainc, the like re- 
 Tirs^ot!^ preuavled in Scotland , betweene the 
 
 land. ^ houfeof Ballioi andBrufe, who werccompe- 
 titors to that crowne,by this occafion that now 
 1 v\il declare. William kingof Scots had ilTac 
 The con- two fonnes Alexander that facceded in the 
 thchoiiT^^^^^"^ , and Dauid carle of Huntington : 
 fes of Alexander had ifllie an other Alexander, and a 
 j^^Hl^j^ daughter raarryed to the king of Norway, al 
 Scotland, which idue and lyne ended abour the ycarc 
 1290. Dauid yonger brocherto king William, 
 hadifTuetwo daughters, Margaret and Habef, 
 Margaret was married to AlaineearleofGallo- 
 way, and had iflbe by him a daughter that mar- 
 ried lohn Balllol Lord of Harcourt in Noima- 
 die, who had iflue b> her this lohn Balliol 
 founder of Balliol College in Oxford that now 
 pretended the crowne, asdifcended from tho 
 cldeft daughter of Dauid in the th ird difcenr. 
 
 Ifabel the fecond daughter of Dauid, was 
 married tojRobert Brufc,Earle of Cleueland in 
 Ingland , who had iflue by her this Robert 
 Brufe, earleofCarick, the other competitor. 
 Now then the queftion betweene thcfe two co- 
 petitorswMs, which of ihemfhould fucccfde. . 
 ether lohn Balliol that was nephew to the elder 
 daughter or Robcit Brufe that vva* fonne to 
 
 ahc 
 
to the CYtft^M. Tdrt i. Cap. II 1 1. 87 
 theyongcr daughter, & fo one degree more 
 neerc'totheftock or ftcmme then the other. 
 And albeit king Edward the firft of Ingland^ 
 whofe power was dreadful at that day in Scot- 
 land, hauing the matter referred to his arbi- 
 trement, gaueftntencc for lohn Baillioi, and 
 Robert Brufe obeyed for thetyme, inrefpedfc 
 partly of fearc and partly of his oth that he 
 had madetoftand to thatiudgment: yet was 
 that fentence held to be vniuft in Scotland,and 
 fowas the crownc reftoted afterward to Ro- 
 bert Brufe his fonne, and his po(terity doth 
 hold it vnto this day. 
 
 In Ingland alfo it fclfc, they alleage the ex- t. 
 am pies of king Henry the firft preferred ^^^^^^fj^l^^ij^ 
 his nephew William, fonne and heyrc to his 
 cider brother Robert, as alfo the example of 
 king lohn preferred before his nephew Ar- 
 thur, duke of Britany , for that king Hen- 
 ry the fecond had fower fonnes , Henry, Ri- 
 chard, Geffrey, and lohn, Henry dyed before 
 his father without iiTue , Richard reygned 
 after him and dyed alfo without iflue: Geffrey 
 alfo dyed before his father, but left a fonne 
 named Arthur duke of Britanie, by right of 
 his mother. But after the death of king Ri- 
 chard,thc queftion was who f hould fucceede^ 
 to wit,either Arthur the nephew or lohn the 
 vncle, but the matter in Ingland was foone 
 decided: for that lohn the vncle was preferred 
 I before the nephew Anhur, by reafon he was 
 Imcieneeietohis brother dead , by a degree 
 \ Y thea 
 
88 A Conference touching fuccefwn ^| 
 then was Arthur. Andalbeit the king of Frace \ 
 and fome other princes abroad oppoled them-* ^ 
 felues for ftomack againft this fucceffion of 
 king lohn, yet fay thcfe fauourers of the houfc 
 ofLancafter, that the Inglilh inehncd ftil to 
 acknowlege and admitt his right, before his 
 nephew, and fo they proclaymed this kingc 
 Hoilingf. lohn for kingoflngland , whiles he was yet 
 head in in Nortnandie, I mcane Hubert Archbifhopof 
 liannis^*^^^"^^'^^"^^ Elcnot the Queene this mother, 
 pag.142. Geffrey Fitz peter chiefeiudge of IngIand(vvho 
 knew alfo what law meant therinj and others 
 the nobles and Barons of the rcalme, vvithout 
 making any doubt or fcruple of his title to the 
 fucceffion. 
 
 How Ar. vvhef as thofc of the houfe of Yorke do 
 thuraukcalleage, that king Richard in his life tyme, 
 ^^'^"^^'^"vvhen he was togoe to the holy land^ caufed 
 declared his nephcw Arthur to be declared heyrc appa- 
 heyrc^ap. j^ntto the crovvnc, and therby did 1 hew that 
 his title was the better, they of Lancaftcr do 
 anfwere, firft, that this declaration of king Ri- 
 chard, was not made by ad: of parlament of 
 England, for that king Richard was in Noi- 
 mandy when he made this declaration , as 
 J^^^^Hoi.playnly appeareth both by Polidor and Hol- 
 lingh. in lingfhead. Secondly, that this declaration was 
 char^i" made the fboner by king Richard at that tymc, 
 f agi4jo. therby to reprelfe and kepe downe ihe ambi- 
 *• tious humor of his brother lohn , whom he 
 feared lead in his abfence, if he had bin decla- 
 ttd for heyre apparet^might inuadc the crownc^ 
 
 as in 
 
totheCYO^ne. Vart 2. Cai>. HIT. §9 
 
 fts in dede without that , he was hkc to haue 
 done, as may appeare by that which happened 
 in his faide brothers abience. 
 
 Thirdly they fhew, that this declaration of 5. 
 king Richard was neuer admittc d in Ingland, 
 neiiherdnkeluhn would (ufFer it to be admit- 
 ted, but raihercaufed the bifhop of Ely that 
 was left gouernour by king Richard,v vith co- 
 fcntofthe nobility, to renownce the faid de- 
 claration of king Richard in fauourof Arthur, 
 and to take a contrary oth to adtritt the faid 
 lohnjf king Richard his brother fhould dye 
 without jflue, and the like oth did the faid 
 Bi{hopofEly together withe the Archbifhop 
 of Roan, that was left in equal authority with 
 him,exa<a and take of the citizens of London, char.regig 
 when they j>aiie them their priuileges and li.P^g45>«. 
 berties ofcomunaltie, as Hollingfhed recor- 
 deth. 
 
 And laftly the faid Hollingfhed vvritetb, 
 how that king Richard being now come home 
 againefrcmthcwarrofHieru(alem 5 and void 
 ofthat ielofy of his brother, which before I 
 haucraentioued: he madehislaft wiland tefta- ^^^^ ^ 
 ment, and ordeyned in the fame, that his bro- hcadpag. 
 thcr lohn, fhould be his fuccelfor, & caufed al 
 the nobles there prcfent ro fweare fealtievnto 
 him, as to his next in blood , for which caufe 
 Thomas Walfingham in his ftory writcth ihefe 
 wordes, loannis Ttltus iunior Ucnrtci 2. Anglortmy^^^^^* 
 regis, & Alienors Ducifx, AqmtdniA, non modoiuredig.s^Uf^ 
 fropinqmtatis.fed etiam ujlamento frmis fuiy R/-^"** 
 
 Y 1 ishardi 
 
90 A Conference teuchkg fmeftdn 
 chardiy deftgnatus eft fuccejfo i ^oft mortcM ipfius^ 
 Which IS, lohn yongei fonnc of Henry the (e- 
 cond king of Ingland, and of Eleanor duchcffc 
 of Aquitainc , was declared fucccflbr of the 
 crowne not only bylaw and right of neerncs 
 of blood, butalfo by the wiland reftamcnt of 
 Richard his brother. Thus much this ancient 
 chronicler fpeakeih in the tcftifying of King 
 lohns title. 
 
 By al which examples, that fell out almoft 
 within one age in diuers natios ouer the world 
 (letting paffe many others which the Ciuilian 
 touched in his difcourfe before, for that ihcy 
 arc of more ancient tymes) thefe fauourers of 
 the houfe of Lancaftcr do inferr, that the 
 right of the vncle before the nephew, was no 
 new or ftraunge matter in thole day cs of king 
 Edward the third, and that if we vvil deny the 
 fame now, vve muft cal in queftion the fuccc(l 
 fion and right of al the kingdomes and ftatcs 
 before mentioned, of Naples, Sicilie, Spaync, 
 Britanie,Flanders, Scotland,& Ingland, whofc 
 kings and princes do euidenily hold their 
 crownes at thisday by that very title, as hath 
 hin f hewed. 
 
 Opinions Moreouerthcy (ayc, that touching law in 
 of ^»-^^thispointc, albeit the moft famous Ciuil la- 
 thc*nc- ' vvycrs of the world, be fomc what deuided in 
 phew & the fame matter, fome of them fauonring the 
 vncle,and fome other the nephew^and that for 
 different reafons. As Baldus Oldratus^ Pa< 
 normitanus and diaers others alleaged by 
 
 GuiUelrous 
 
to the crolifne. Tart i. C A p. 1 1 1 1. 91 
 
 Guilldmus Benedidus in his repetitions in fa- ctp^'^iul 
 uour of the nephew againft the vncle » and on nucius 
 the other f>de,for the vncle before the nephew, ''^^^^ 
 BattolaSj Akxander,Decius,Altiatus,Cuiatius tcftam. 
 and many other their followers, are recomp- 
 ted in the fame place by the fame man , yet 
 in the end, Baldus that is held for head ofB^ldus in 
 the contrary fide, for the nephew , after al rea-^^^i^p" 
 fons weighed to and fro, hecommeth to con- ^uis St 
 diide^ that feing rigour of law runneth only Jcd'&pcr. 
 with the vncle,for that in deed, he is properly^ U. vnicam 
 neereftin blood by one degree, and that only ^^^^^^ 
 indiilgence and cuftome ferueth for the ne- & nouif. 
 phew, permitting him to reprefent the place of 
 his father, which is dead, they rcfolue (I fay) 
 that whenfoeucr the vncle is borne before the 
 nephew, and the faid vncles elder brother dyed 
 before hisfather (as it happened in the cafe of 
 lohn of Gaunt and of king Richard) tbcirtbc 
 vncle by right may be preferred, for chat the 
 fold elder brotber could notgiue ortranfmitr^ 
 that thine to his fonne, which was notii 
 himfelfe before his father dyed, and confe* 
 quently his fonne could not reprefent that 
 which his father neuer had y and this for the 
 Ciuillaw. 
 
 Touch ing our common^ hawes', the fauou-To«* 
 rersoflancafterdo fay twoor three things, firlt^|j|JJ^^o* 
 that the right of the crowne and intcreft ther-iaw of 
 unto is not decided cxprefly in our lav^ , ^"^^^'^^ 
 nor it is a plea fubiecft to the common rules 
 ihercfj but is fuperiour and more eminent^ 
 
 Y 3 and 
 
91 A Conference touching fuccefton 
 and rherfore fhar men may not iudge of this 
 as of other pkras of parricukr perfons^nor is ihe 
 tryal like, nor the common maximes or rules 
 alvvaies of force in this ihing , as in others, 
 which they prouc by diners particuler ca(cs» as 
 for example, the vvidowc fa priuateman fhal 
 haueherihirdesofal his landesforher dowry, 
 
 burnottheOueeneof thecrowne. Aeaine if 
 Different , , ^ . . 
 
 julei n a priuatc man hauemany daughters , and dye 
 
 of^^i*;^*^ feazed of any landes in fee limple, without 
 
 crovvi.c heyrenule^hi.^ faid daughters by law fhal hauc 
 
 and of (he faid Undfs as copaiteners equally dcuided 
 
 heman^ '^^^^'veene them, bur not the daughters of a 
 
 - king, fur that the cldeli muft carry away al, as 
 
 though fhe were hey re male. Thelyke alfois 
 
 feenc, if a b uon matche with a femme that is 
 
 aninherctux, and haueillue by her, though 
 
 fhedye, yttlhal he enioyc her landes during 
 
 hjs lyfe, asrenanc by curtefie, but it is not fo 
 
 in ihecrowne ifaman mary with a Queen e, as 
 
 king Phillip dyd- with Quecne Marye; and fo 
 
 finally they (>ye alfo ihat albeit in priuate m,ens 
 
 pofleflions, the common courle ofour law is, 
 
 rhar if the father dye feazed of landes in fee 
 
 fjmple, leaumgayongerfonneanda nephew, 
 
 that is to fay a child of his elder (bnne, the 
 
 nephew fhal fuccede his grandfather, as aUb 
 
 hcfhaldohis vncle, if of thr«brctheren the 
 
 elder dye wiihout iHue, and the fecohd leaue a 
 
 fbnne: yet in the inheritance and fucceflion 
 
 ofthectowne itgoethotherwife, asbyal the 
 
 former eight examples haue bia fliewed , and 
 
to the croT^ne. Tdrt i. C A p. 1 1 T I. 9 J 
 this is the firft they faye about the commoa 
 law. 
 
 The fecond pointe which they afficmc is, The cora 
 that the ground of our common lawes , confi- grounded 
 ftethprmcipaliy and almoft only, about thisincudo- 
 pointe of the cfowne , in cuftome , for fo fay 
 they we fee by experience, that nothmg in ef- 
 fect, is written therof in the common law, and 
 al old lawyers do affirme this pointe, as were 
 HamlfmdeGramilU in his booke of the lawes 
 and cuftomes of Ingland, which he wrote in 
 the ty me ofking Henry the fecond , andludgc 
 Tortefcue in his booke of the prayfe of Inglifh 
 lawes, which he compiled in the tyme of king 
 Henry theiixt, and others. Wherof thefemeii 
 do inferr, that feing there are fo many prefidets 
 and examples alleaged before , of the vncles 
 cafe preferred before the nephew , not only in 
 forayne couniryes,but alfo in Ingland • for this 
 caufe (I faye) they do affirme, that ourc5moa 
 lawes,cannot but fauour alfo this title,ind co- 
 fequently muft needs like vvelof the iniereft 
 of Lancafter 3 as they auouch thatal the beft 
 old lawyers did in thofe ty mes : Sc -for example 
 they do record two by name , of the moft fa- 
 mous learned men which thofe ages had, who 
 not only defended the faid tide ofLancafter in Ancient 
 thofe dayes,but alfo fuflfred much for thefame. tha7dc* 
 The one was the forenamed iudge Vortefcue^ fended 
 i Chancelor of Ingland, and named fiiher of^^/r^^^f' 
 the common lawes in that age , who fled out cafta. 
 of Ingland whith the Queene , wife of king 
 
 Y4 Hemy 
 
94 ^ Conference touching fuccefm 
 Henry the fixt, & with the prince her (bnnc, 
 andhaedin banifhment in France, where it 
 (cemcthalfo that he wrote his learned bookc 
 Holling. intituled de Uudibus legum Angltd. And iht other 
 ? was. Sir Thomas Thorope chiefe Baron of the 
 13 00^^ cxcheker,inthefamereigne of the fame king 
 Henry the fixt , who being afterward put into 
 the tower by the Princes ofthe houfc of Yoi ke, 
 for his eger defence of the title of Lancafter, 
 remayned ther a long tyme, and after being dc- 
 liuered^was beheaded at hygate in atumuite^ 
 in the dayes of king Edward the fourth • 
 Thefc then are the allegations which the fa- 
 fummcof uourers of the houfe of Lacafter do lay downc 
 ttoucrfic^^^ the iuftyfyingof that title, affirming firft, 
 fcpcaicd. that lohn of Gaunt duke of Lancafter ought to 
 haue fucceded his father K, Edward the third, 
 !• immediatly before king Richard, and that in- j 
 iury was done vnto him in that king Richard 1 
 was preferred. And fecondly that king Richard 
 a. Cvverc his right ncuer fo good^ was iuftly 8c 
 orderly depofed , for his euil gouermenr, by 
 lawful authority of the common wealth. And 
 thirdly that after his depofition, Henry duke 
 of Lancafter, fonne & heyre of lohn of Gaunt, 
 was next in fucccflion eucry way , both in 
 rcfped of the right of his father, as alfofor 
 that he vvas two degrees neerer to the king 
 depofed then was Edmond Mortimer defcen-^ 
 ded of Leonel duke of Clarence, andthefe arc 
 the principal and fubftancial ptoofcs of their 
 light and tide. 
 
tothem1i?ne. Tart Cap. I III. 9/ 
 
 Butyetbefidcsthefe, they do add al(o thcfc^jjj^" ^ 
 other arguments and cofiderarions following: ofUac»- 
 fifft that what foeuer right or pretence the 
 houfe of Yoike had, the prmces cherofdid for- 
 feit and leefe the fame many tymes, by their co- 
 {piraces^reheHions &: attainders, as namely Ri- 
 chard earle of Cambrige, that married the lady Stovvin 
 Anne Mortimer, and by her tooke his pretence 
 to thecrowne, was conuicftedof a confpiracy pag.ssjr* 
 againft king Henry the fift in Souchampton, as 
 before 1 haue faid, and there was put to death '''j^^^ 
 forthcfame,byiudgmentoftheking, and ofyorikT 
 al his peeres, in the yeare 141 j. the duke ofj|||^^^* 
 Yorke his elder brother, being one of the iury 
 that condencd him. This carle Richards fonne, 
 alfo named Richard, comming afterward by 
 the death of his vncle, to be duke of York, firft 
 of al made open clayme to the crowne, by the 
 tide of Yorke. But yet after many othes fwornc 
 and broken toiking Henry the fixt, he wa« 
 attaynted of treafon : I mcane bothe he and 
 Edward his fonne, then earle of march, which 
 afterward was kii\g, with the reft of his of- 
 fpringc euen to the nynth degree^as Stow affir- 
 methj in a parlament holden at Couentryjj^^ 
 in the yeare 1459. and in the 38. yeare ofud€. 
 thereigne of the laid king Henry , and the 
 very next yeare after ^the faid Richard was 
 flayne in the fame quarrelrbut the honfe of La- 
 cafter(fay thefe me^ was neuer attainted of any 
 fuch crime. 
 
 Secondly ihey (aye, that the houfe of Yorke 
 
 Y J did 
 
9^ A Conference touching fuccepon 
 ^ did eater only by violence, d5^ by infinite blood- 
 Torkscn. fhedd, and by wilful murthering not only of 
 ^ioie^cc. diii^isofthenobilitie both fpiritual and tern- 
 poraljbutalfo of both king Hecythe fixt hym 
 feifandofprince Edward his fonne, and by a 
 Stow m ccrtaine populcr and mutinous eledHon of a 
 incvit. certaine fewfouldiers in Smitbfield of Lodon, 
 Hcajdcd. and this was the enrrance of the howfe of 
 Yorketo the crowne,vvheras king Henry the 
 fourth^firft king of the houfe of Lancafter, en- 
 tred without blood fhedd as hath bin f hewed, 
 beinge called home by the requeftes and letters 
 of the people and nobility, and his cledion & 
 admifliion to the crowne^ was orderly, and au- 
 thorized by general confenc ofparlamenc^ in 
 the doing cherof. 
 
 Thirdly they alleagc,that king Hery the fixt 
 rhLf P^^ downe by the houfe oFYorke , was a good 
 houfeof and holy king, and had reigned peaceably 40, 
 ^^tv'nc^a yeares,and neuer cooimitted any ad , worthy 
 holy depofition , vvheras king Richard the fecond 
 had many waics deferiied the fame, as him felfc 
 came to acknowledge, and thervppon made a 
 pcrfbnal folemneand publique reiignation of 
 the faid crowne vnto his cofen Henry of Lan- 
 carter, the which iuftified much the faid Hen- 
 ries entrance. 
 4. Fourthly they alleage that the houfa of Lan- 
 ^^^I^P^^cafterhadbin in pofleflionof the crowne vp^ 
 ofth^ pon thepointcof6o,yeares, before the houfc 
 Lanca ^^^^ ^^^^^ trouble vnto them for the 
 
 ftci. ' fame, in which tyrac their title was confirmed 
 
 by many 
 
to the cron^ne. Tart i* Cap. I III. 97 
 
 by many parlamcnts, othes, approbations, andl 
 publiqueadJsofcheconimon wealth, and by 
 ihe nobles peeres and people therof, and by the * 
 ftates both fpiritual and temporal, and with 
 the cofenc of alforaine nations, fo that if there 
 had bin any faMlt in their firft entrance, yet 
 was this fufficicnt ro authorize the rame,as c 
 fee it was in the title of king William the Co;!- 
 queror, andof his two fonnes. king William 
 Rufus, and king Henry thefirft, that enircd 
 before their elder brother , and of king lohn, 
 that entrcd before his nephew, & of his fonnc 
 king Henry the third that cntred after his 
 fathers depriuarion, and afrer the cledion of 
 prince Lewis of france, as al/b of Edward the 
 third that enrred by depofition of his ownc fa* 
 ther:of al which iitles,y et might there haue bin 
 doubt made at the begining , but by tyme and 
 durance of poffeflion , and by confirmation of 
 the commo weahh, they were made lawfal,& 
 without controuerfie. 
 
 Fifcly they fay, that ifweconfidcr the fowre 
 king Henryes that haue bin of the houfe ofJJ^^^ ^'^^ 
 Lancallerto wit the 4. 5.6. and 7. and do com. of king* 
 pare the with the other fowei that haue bin of ^'^^^ 
 thehonfeofYorkjto wit Edward the fourth, 
 Richard the third, Henry the eight, & Edward 
 the(ixc,&alrheirad:sbofhac home&abioade, 
 what quietnes or iroobles haue palled,& what 
 the common wealth of Ingland hath gotten 
 or loft vndc reach of them, we fhal findc^ that 
 God hath fccmed to profpcr and allow much 
 
 moic 
 
$S A Conference touching fuccefm 
 more of thofc of Lancafter, then of thoft of 
 Yorkc, for that vnder thofe of Lancafter the 
 tcalmchath cnioyed much more peace, and 
 gayned far greater honor, and enlarged more 
 the dominions of the crowne then vnder thofc 
 of Yorke,and that it had done alfo much more 
 if the feditions, rebelHons, and troobles ray- 
 fed and brought in by the princes of the 
 houfe of Yorke^ had not hindered the fame, 
 as faye thefe men, it was euidenrly fcenc in the 
 tyme ofking Henry the fixt, when their con- 
 tention againftthe princes ofthehoafe of Lan* 
 carter, was the principal caufe why al the 
 Englif h ftates in France were loft, and what 
 garboilcs and troubles at home haue enfued 
 ^cerwards , and how infinite murthers and 
 man flaugbters with chainge of nobility 
 haue bm caufed hereby , and increafed after- 
 ward vnder the gouerment and rule of the 
 princes of Yorke, ncadech not (fay thefe men) 
 to be declared. 
 ^ One thing only they note in particuler, 
 
 Tht-^ which f vvil not omit (and let it be the fixt 
 ^^i^^^note) and that is, that the princes of Yorke 
 cruel one haue not only bin rigorous and very bloody 
 #ch«! vnto their aduerfaires^but aUb among them- 
 felues, and to their ownekynred, which thefe 
 men take tobea iuftpunifhmem of God vp* 
 pon them : And for proofe heerof , they aU 
 icage firft, the teftimonie of Polydor , who 
 albeit he were a great aduocat of the houfe 
 of Yorke^ as before hath bin noted^ for that j 
 
 heliued 
 
nthecreTi^ne. Tart i. Cap. 1 1 II. 99 
 
 heliuedand wrote his ftoryvndcr king Hen- 
 ry the eight , ytt in one place he breaketh 
 foorth into ihtfe wordes , of the princes of 
 this houfe. Crnn non haberent iam tnimicos infeiydot 
 quosfruitiamtxpleYent, & fat ur amity in /^^^^p/^^ Angi^^ 
 €rudelitatm extrtuerunt , proprioque fanguine fuas ub.14. 
 poUure manus. When ihefe princes now had 
 brought to deftruiStion al thofc of the houfe ,^ 
 of Lancaftcr , fo as they had no more cni- 
 myes vppon whom to fill and fatiat their,, 
 crueltie , then began they to exercife their 
 fierfnes vppon thcmfelues , and to embrew ,^ 
 their handcswith their owne bloody thus far 
 Polidon 
 
 Secondly they do fhew the fame by thecrvtt 
 deedes of both fides, for that the loue, vnion, ^^^^".^ 
 truft, confidence, fayth fulnes , kyndnes , and fuin« of 
 loyaltie of the princes of Lancafter , the one^'J^ P^*^' 
 towardes the other , is finguler and noto- Lanca* 
 rious , as may appcare by the ads and ftu* 
 dious endeuours ot the lord Henry bifhop 
 ofWincheftcr, and Cardinal, and of the lord 
 Thomas duke of Excefter and marques o^ 
 Dorfet y brothers of king Henry the fourth, 
 to whom and to his children,rhey wercmoft 
 faythfuU frendly and loyal , as alfo by the 
 iioblc proceedings of the lordes Thomas 
 duke of Clarence , lohn dnke of Bedford, 
 and Humfrcy duke of Gloccfter , fonnes of 
 the forefaid Henry the fourth,and brothers of 
 king Henry the fift: , (the firft of which 
 three gaue his blood in his feruice^^ the other 
 
 two 
 
I CO A Conference touching fuccepon 
 two fpent their whole liues in defence, of the 
 dignity of the Inghfh crowne, ihe.one as re- 
 gent of France, the other as. prote<5tor of In- 
 gland: by the worthy adls alfo and renomed 
 faythfulnesof thcdukcs of Somerfet , cofcn 
 germans to the faid king Henry thefourth,and 
 to his children, and the proper anceftors of 
 king Henry the feuenth,al vvhic h dukes of So- 
 mcr(et,ofthehoufeof Lancafter, ("being fiuc 
 or fix ifi number^ did not only as Polydor 
 fayeth, affiftand helperheirlbiieraine, and ihe 
 
 ffolyd.rib.vvhole rcalme, Vtgilijs cutis & permits y that is 
 tofayc With watchfulnes, cares, and offering 
 themfelues to dangers, bur alfo fower of them 
 one after an other, to with Edmond with his 
 three fonnes , Henry, Edmond , and lohn^ 
 ^wheroftwo fucceffiuely after him vvere du- 
 kes of Somcrfer, and the other marques dorfc t) 
 were al fower (I (ay) as fo many Machabyes, 
 ilayne in the defence of their country and fa- 
 mily, by the other fadlio of the houfe ofYoike, 
 which thing faythefemen, f hewed euidently 
 both a maruelous confidence that thefe men 
 had in their quarrel, as alfo a great blefiing 
 of God towards that famiHc, that they had 
 foch louc andvnion among themfelues. 
 
 j^iflTcn. Bur now in the houfe of Yoi ke thefe men en- 
 deuourtofhcvval the contrary, to witt that 
 
 •fyorkc. there was nothing els bur fufpition, hatred, & 
 emulations among themfelues, and extreme 
 crueltie ofone againft the other, and fo we fee 
 that as loone almoll as Edward duke of Yorke 
 
 came to 
 
UtheeroSKftie. Tart i. Cap. II II. loi 
 came to be king^ George duke of Clarence his 
 yonger brother confpiredagainfthim , & did 
 helptodriuc him outagame, both ficm the 
 realmeand crowne. In recompence vvherof 
 his faid elder brother afterward notwiihftan- Kin^ Ei. 
 ding al the reconcihation and many othes that 
 paffed betweene them, of new loue and vnion, ^hafa^** 
 caufed him vppon new grudges to be taken & 
 murthered pnuily at Cahs , as al the world 
 knoweth.And after boththeirdeathes,Richard 
 their third brother, murthered the two fonneS 
 of his faid elder brother, and kept in prifoti 
 whiles he lined, the fonne and heyreof his 
 fccond brother , I meane the yong earle of 
 Warwick, though he were but a very child , 
 whom king Henry the feucnth afterward put 
 to death. 
 
 But Jcing Henry the eight that fucceded^,.^ ^. 
 them, palled cl the reft in cruelcie, toward his ^^/"g^.ovT 
 pwnekynred, for he weeded out almoft alfhat^-«^y 
 cuer he could finde of the blood royal of York, death of 
 and this cither for emulation, or caufcs of his own^ 
 meercfufpiciononly. For firftof al he behed-^^"^^^ 
 ded Edmondde la Polcduke of Suffolk, fonne 
 of his owne aunt lady Elizabeth, that was fifter 
 to king Edward the fourth , which Edward 
 was grand father to king Heniyas is euident. 
 The likediftrudion king Henry went about 
 to bring to Richard de la Pole brother to the The de^ 
 faid Edmond, if he had not efcaped his handcs^^^*'''^^- 
 by flying the realme,whom yet he neuer ceafed 
 iopurfue>vntilhcvYas flaync in the battel of 
 
 Pauia 
 
1 ox A Conference touchtng fuccefm 
 Pauiain feruiccofchekingofFrace, by whofc 
 death was excinguil hed the noble houfeof ihe 
 dcla Poles. 
 
 Tli«^ Agaync the faid king Henry put to death 
 Koufcof Edward duke of Buckingham, high conftabie 
 oflnglandjthefonneofhis great Aunt, fifter 
 to the Q^ecne Elizabeth his gradmoiher, and 
 therby ouerthew allb that vvoithy houfe of 
 Buckingham, & after againe he put to death 
 hiscofengermaine Henry Courtney marques 
 of Excefter,fonne of the lady Catherin his Aur, 
 iMnfeof that was daughter of king Edward rhefourth, 
 and attainted jointly with him , his wife the 
 lady Gertrude, taking from her al her goodes 
 landes and inheritance, and committed to per- 
 petual prifon their only fonne andheyre lord 
 Edward Courtney, being then but a childe of 
 leuen yearcs old, which remayned ^o there, 
 vntil many yeares after he was fet at liber- 
 tic and reftored to his liuing by Queenc 
 Mary* 
 
 Moreouer he put to death the lady Margaret 
 Plantagener,Countefle of Salisbury, daughter 
 ^^^^ofGtoxgcA\^k,Qo(C\zxQnQQ^ that was brother 
 of his grandfather king Edward the fourth, & 
 with her he put to death alfo her eldeft fonnc 
 and hcyrc Thomas Poole, lorclMontaguc, and 
 committed to perpetual pnTon ("where foonc 
 after alfo he ended his life) a little infant na- 
 med Henry Poole his fonne and hey re, & con- 
 demned to death by a6t of parlament('althoi)gh 
 •bfent; Renald Pole brother to the faid lord 
 
 Montague 
 
Montague Cardinal inRome^whcrby he ouer* 
 threw alfo the noble houfe of Salisbury and 
 yvarwick: nether need I to go futthcr in thisScymcii 
 relation, though ihefc men do note alfo, howj^^ih? 
 Edward the fixt put to death tWooFhisownc 
 yncles^the Scytners (brat leaft it was done by 
 his authoi ityjand how that vnder her Maieftie 
 that now is»the Quf enc of Scotland, that .was Q^^^e 
 jicxtinkynneofany other h'ning &thechiefcofScottA 
 titler of the honfe of Yorkc , hath aho bin put 
 10 death. 
 
 Laftiy they do note, (and t may not o^^^^Oj^^^^ij 
 thac their is no noble houfe (landing at thiis day noblL> 
 in Ingland inthe ancient ftatc of calling that^^^^V^ 
 it had, and in that dignity dnd degree that itin^"n^|| 
 was in when the houfe of Yorkc entred tobutfuch 
 the crowne/'if it be abouethe ftate of a baro-partc^ 
 ny) but only fuch as defended the right and with Lfc 
 intereftof-ihehoufesofLancafter, atid that al" 
 (Other gteac houfes that tokfe parte with the 
 hc^iifc of Yorke, and did heipe to ruine the 
 houfe gf Lancafter^be either ceafed fincc,or ex* 
 lyrpatedandoucrthrowneby the fame houfe 
 of Yorke It felfe which they affifted to gett th^ 
 ) crowne,& fo at this prefent they be either vni^ 
 ) tedtoihecrowneby confifcatio, or transferred 
 to other linages that are ftrangers to them who 
 I poffefl^d the before. As for example,thc ancient 
 ! houfes oflnglad,thatrerriaihe at this day & were 
 i (lading whe the houfe of Yorke bega ihcr title^ ^. .., 
 [ are, the houfes of Ar6del,Oxford, Northuber-cient^nd. 
 I iandjWeftmcrland, Sc Shrewsbery (for al other hovn 
 i Z that 
 
164 A Cdnfnencft^uMttgfuuepm 
 that are in Inglandat ihisday , aboucihc dig* 
 nicy uf Barons, hauc bin aduanccd fince that 
 ^ tyme) and al thclc fiue houfcs were ihcfe that 
 principally did ftick vnto the houfe of Lan- 
 carter, as iseuident byal Inglifh chronicles. 
 ArondcL For that the earle of Arondel brought in king 
 Henry the fourth , lirft king of the houfe of 
 Lancafter, and did helpe to place him in the 
 dignity royal, comroing out of France with 
 Oxford, hini. The earle of Oxford, and his fonnc the 
 loid Vere, were fo earneft in the defence of 
 king Hery the Cm as they were both flayne by 
 king Edward rhe fourth,and lohnearle of Ox- 
 ford was one of the principal afliftats of Hery 
 the feuethjto take the crowne fro Richard the 
 Kortlium^^^''^* The houfe of Northumberland alfo was 
 bciland, ^ principal aydei toHenry the fourth in getting 
 the crowne, and two earles of that name to wit 
 Henry the fecond and third, were flajne in the 
 quarrel of king Henry the fixr,onc in the battel 
 of S. Alhons, and the other of Saxton, and t 
 third carle named Henry the foufth fled into 
 Scotlad with the faid king Henry the fixr.The 
 ^^^^ houfe of Weftmerland alfo was chicfe aduacer 
 aieiUnd. of Hery the fourth to the crownc,&r the fecod 
 earle of that houfe, was flayne in the pany of 
 Henry the fixt in the faid batcaile of Saxton^ 
 shrcvvf- andlohn eavle of Shrewsbury was likevvifc 
 huiy. flayne in defenceofi he title of Lancafterin the 
 bartailc of Norrhampro,and I omit many other 
 great feruices and faithful endeuonrs which ' 
 many Princes of ihcfe hue noble ancict houfes^ 
 
 did in 
 
tdthecro>ni. Van i. Cap. I III- ioj 
 iid in the defence of the L^ncaftcian kings^ 
 which thefe men fay, that God ha(h rewar- 
 ded with continuance of their howfes vnio 
 this day. 
 
 Buton the contrary fide,thcrc men do note, Hoa» 
 thataliheold tioufes that principally afliftcd.J^^^Y^^^^* 
 The title ot Yorke, are now extinguif hed, and dcftioycA 
 that chiefly by the kings ihem(elues of that 
 houfe, a$ for example,. the principal pecres 
 that ai^jftcd the family of Yotke, were Mou- 
 bray dpke of Norfolke, de la Poole duke of 
 Suffolk, the earle of Sahsbury and the catle of 
 \Varvvick,of al which the euent was this. 
 
 lohn Moubray duke of Norfoike the fi^ft^j^^j^^^ 
 confedcratof thehoufeof Yorke, dyed (bonebiaie. 
 after the exaltation of Edward the fourth, 
 without ifliie, and Co that name of Moubray 
 teafedjand the title of the dukedome of Nor- 
 foike was transferred afterward by king Ri- 
 chard the third, vnto the houfe of Howards. 
 • lohn de la Poole duke of Suffolke , ^^^^ The j^'l^ 
 iiarricd the fifter of king Edward the fourth, & poolcs. * 
 Vvas his great afliftant,though he left three fon-» 
 nes, yet alwere extinguifhed without ifTuc, 
 byhelpeofthe houfe of Yorke, for that Ed- 
 Viiond the eldeft fonnc duke of Suffolke was 
 beheaded by king Henry the eight, & his bro^ 
 ther Richard driuen out of the realme to his 
 deftru(3:iQn,as before hath bin f hewed, & lohn 
 their brother carle of Lincolue, wasflayne at 
 Stockfild in feruice of king Richard the third, 
 land fo ended the line of de la Pooles. 
 
 Z X Richarl 
 
io6 A Coiifermetmhihg (uictpon 
 fcoiJfcof Ri^^^^''^ Neuel eatlc of Salisbury j a chifeffe 
 saiesbury cnetny to the houfc of Lancaftcr^and exaltcrof 
 vvkkc" YoFk,vvas taken at the battaile of VVakefild, 
 and there beheaded leauing three fonncs, Ri* 
 chard, tohn and George: Richard vvasearle 
 boiliof Salisbury and Warwick, furnamed the 
 great earle of Warwick , & yvas he that placed 
 king Edward the fourth in the royal feate , by 
 whomeyethc was fl^yne afterward at Bar- 
 ret, and the landes of thefe two great earldo- 
 niesof Salisbury and Warwick, wtre vniied to 
 thecro^vneby his attainder. lohn his yonger 
 brother was Marques ofmontague, and after 
 al affiftance giaen to the faid king Edward the 
 fourth cf the howfc ofYorke, was flayne 
 alfo by him at Earner, and his lands in like nia« 
 tjer confifcate to the crowne, which yet were 
 neuerreftored againe: George Neuel their yon-» 
 ger brother was Archbil hop 6fYorke,& vva$ 
 taken ^ fenr prifoner by the faid king Edward 
 VnroGuynes,vvho fhortly after pined away 
 anddyed,andthisvvasthcendeof al theprin- 
 cipal frendcsjhelpers & aduancers of the hou(e 
 of Yorke,as thefe men do alleage* 
 
 Wherforethey doconclude,thatforal thefe 
 reafons, & irrkny rrvore that might be alleaged^ 
 the title of Lancafter muft needes feeme the 
 belter title,which they do confirmc by the ge- 
 neral confent; of al the realme , ar king Henry 
 the feuenth his comming in to rccoucr the 
 crowne from the houfe of Yorke,as from v fur- 
 pcrs^for hauinghad the siCkoiy againft king 
 
 Richard| 
 
tathecfclH^ne. ?art 1. Cap. V. 107 
 
 the houle of Yotke, which is a token that they l^^^}^^^ 
 cftecmedhis title of Lancafter fufficicnt of itofth^ 
 felfe, to beare away thecrownc,albeit for bet- ^^^^^^^^ 
 ter ending of rtrife he tooks to wife alfo the only 
 lady Elizabeth hey reof the howfe of Yorke, as jJ^^J'^^Jf 
 hath bin faid, and this may be fufEcient for the that way 
 prefenr.in this coiitio.uerfie. was noi 
 
 * ' Crete* 
 
 OF FIVE PRINCIPAL 
 
 HOVSES OR LINAGES THAT 
 
 1^0 OR MAY PRITBND TO THE C R O W N S ^ 
 
 gflngUndy Tifhich are the houfes ofScotlandySuffblke^ 
 Clarence Britanie, and Portugal, andjirjl of al, of 
 the houfe of Scotland^ T^hich csnteyneth the 
 pretentions of the king of Scottes 
 
 Cap.. V. 
 
 HAVING declared in the ,'fbrmcr chap- 
 ter, fo much as apparteyncth vnto the 
 general controuerfie becweene the two princi- 
 pal houfes and royal families of Lancafter and 
 Yorke, it remay neth now that I lay before yoit 
 thepatticulerchalenges, clay mes and preten- 
 tions, which diuers houfes and families des- 
 cended ffor the moft part) of thefe two , haue 
 among themfelues^for their titles to the fame. 
 
 Al which families, may be reduced to three 
 or fowcr general headcs. For that fome do pre- 
 tende by the houfe of Lancafter alone, as tho(e 
 
 and the Ladj Arbglk. 
 
 Z 5 
 
 families 
 
1 gS a Conference Uuching fuccefm 
 A.^^^^^^ families principally thatdodefccndof the line 
 ^lilies ^ royal of Portngal; fome other do pretcnde b* 
 that do (i^c howfeof Yoikeonly,asthofethat arc del- 
 ?w€n . ^gpj^j Qf George duke of Clarence, fecond 
 brother to K.Edward the fourth. Sotne agayne 
 - wil fcemc to pretend from both howfes ioyned 
 together, as althofc that defcende from king 
 Henry the feuenrh, which are the houfesof 
 Scotland and SufFolke, albeit ("as before hath 
 appeared) others do deny that thefe families 
 haue any true part in the houfe of Lancafter^ 
 which pointe f hal afieiwaid bedifcufled more 
 at large. And fourthly others do pretend, be- 
 fore the two houfes of Yorke and Lancaftcr 
 vvefcdeuided, as the Infanta of Spay nc , du- 
 cheffe of Sauoy, the prince of Lorayne & fuch 
 others, as haue defcended of thehoufe of Bri- 
 tanny and France^of al which pretences &r pre- 
 tenders, we fhal fpeake in order,and connder 
 with indifFercncic what is faid or alleaged of* 
 cuery fide, to and fro, begining firftwith the 
 houie of Scotland, as with that which in com- 
 mon opinion of vulgar men, is taken to be firft 
 and neereft {"though others denye it) for tha; 
 they are defceded of the fiift and eldcft daugh- 
 ter, of king Henry the feuenth,as before in the 
 third chapter hath bin declared, 
 houfc ^ Firll then two perfons are knowne to be of 
 Scutiand. ^^^^ hou(c at this daye that may haue adion & 
 claymetothecrowne of Ingland^the firft is. 
 Lord lames the fixt of that name prcfently 
 feng of Scotland^vvho dcfccndeth of Margaret 
 
\t9thtcro*^ni. Tart i. Cap. V. lo^ 
 cldeft daughter of king Henry the fcucth, that 
 was married by her firft marriage to lames the 
 fourth kSng of Scots, & by him had iiTue lames 
 thefifr, and he agaync the lady Mary mother 
 to this king now pretendanr. 
 
 The fecondperfon that may pretend in this 
 hourc,is the lady Arbella>dercended of the fclfe ^tbella. 
 fame Queeue Margaret by her fecod marriage^ 
 vnto Archibald Douglas earle of Anguis , by 
 whom f he had Margatet that was married to 
 Mathcw Steward carle of Lenox, and by him 
 had Charles her fecond fonne carle of Lenox, 
 who by Elizabeth daughter of Syr William 
 Candifh knight in Ingland^had illueihis Ac- 
 bellanowaliue. 
 
 Firft then^for the king of Scots,thofe that do ^3^^,^ 
 fauour his caure,(wherof I conftfle that I haue of thc^ 
 notfoundevery many in Inglandj do allcage , 
 that he is the firft and checfcft pretendor of al 
 others,andnextinrucccflion,fortha'cheis the 
 firft perfon that is defcended fas you fee) of the 
 cldeft daughter of king Henry the feuenth,and 
 that in this difcent thcr ca no baftardy or other 
 lawful impediment be auowed , why he 
 fhould not fucceedc according ro the priority 
 of his pretention and birth : And moreouer fc- 
 condly they do alleage that it would be greatly ^ 
 for the honor and profit of Ingland , for that 
 hereby the two Rcalmes of Ingland and Scot* 
 land, fhould come to beioyned, apointe logc 
 foughtfor, and much to be wif hed,and finally 
 iagh are a^c<^ed to his teligion do adde , 3> 
 
 Z 4 that 
 
1 1 o A Conference mcbing fuccefm 
 that hereby true religion wil coroc to be more 
 fetlcd alfoand cftablifhcd in Ingland, which 
 they rake to be a matter of no Irnale confc- 
 quence, and confideration, and this in efFcd is 
 that which the fauourcrs of this prince doaU 
 leage in his behalfe* 
 
 But on the other fide, there want not many 
 . thatdoaccompt this pretence of the king of 
 $gainft^^ Scotsiieither good nor iufl:,nor any way e expc- 
 fhekmg dient fot the ftate of Ingland , and they doan^ 
 ^ fwere largely to al the allegations before men- 
 tioned in his behalfe. 
 
 And firft of al^as cocerning his title, by neer^ 
 nesoffucce(fion,they make litle accompt ther- 
 pfjboth for that init felfe(theyfaye)it mayea- 
 (ily be ouerthrowne,and pioued to be of no va- 
 liditie, as alio for that if it were neuer fo good, 
 yet might it for other confideratipns be reie- 
 €ted,and madeftuftrate, asourfrendthcCiuil 
 lawyer, hath largely & learnedly proued thcfc 
 dayesjin our hearing. 
 
 To begin then to (peake firft of the king 
 pf Scots title by neernes of blood,thefe men do 
 affirme,that albeit there be not alleaged any ba 
 ftardyin his difcent, from K. Henry thefeueth 
 his daughter, as there is in het fecond marriage 
 J, againft the lady Arbella: yet are there other rea- 
 The king fpns enQugh tp fruftrat and ouerthrcw this 
 LtoTthc^i^yn^c and pretention, and firft of al^ for that 
 l^outcof he is not (fay ihefemcnjof thehoufe of Lan- 
 ^^r^*' carter by lady Blanch the only true heyre 
 cherof^ as bcfuxc hath in part bin f hewed , and 
 
Uthftm^ne. Tart Cap. V. in 
 
 fKalbe aftccvvard more largely, but only by 
 Cacherin Swinford whofe children being vn 
 lawfully begotien^and but of the halfe blood, 
 whether they may by thaclegicimation of par- 
 lament, that was giuen them, be made inheri- 
 table vnto tfie crowne before the lawful 
 daiighterof the whole blood, fhalbe difculTed 
 afterward in place conuenient , when we f hal 
 f alke of the houfe of Portugahbut in the meane 
 fpace, thefc men doprefume^that the king of 
 Scots is but only of the houfe of Yorke, and 
 then affirming further that the title of the 
 houfe ofLancafter,is better then that of Yorke, 
 as by many argumctes the fauorers of Lacaflcc 
 haue indeuored to fhew in the former chapter, 
 theydoinferr that this is futficient , to make 
 voidealclaymeofthe king of Scots, that he 
 maye pretende by ncernes of blood,efpecially 
 feing there wat not at thisday preteders enough , 
 of the other houfe of Lacafler to claymetheic 
 right, fo as the how(e of Yorke fhal not needc 
 to enter for fault of true heyrcs, and this is the 
 firfl argumct which is made againfl theScotif h 
 king & al the reft of hi$ linage,by the fauourers 
 and followers of the faid houfe of Lancafter. 
 
 A (ccond Argument is made againfl the fai4 
 kings fucceffion not by them oY Lancafter, but Tbe u\ng 
 rather by thofeof his owne houfe of Yorke 
 which is founded vppon his forraine birth, by boms, 
 which they hold that he is excluded, by the 
 fommonlawesoflngland from fucceflion to 
 |he crowne, for ihat the faid lawes do bar al 
 Z J ftrangcrs 
 
Ill a Cenfetence touching faccepon 
 ftrangers borne out of rherealme, to inherite 
 within c^ie land, and this is an argumct hadled 
 very largely bctwecne the forelaid bookes of 
 M. Hales, M. Morgan and my lord ofRolle, &c 
 for that the fame doth concernc much the pre-i 
 tcntionsand claymes ofdiucrs others, that be 
 ftrangers alfo by birth, and yet do pretend to 
 this mccrflion, as before hath bin declared : I 
 f hal repeate breefly in this place, the fumrae of 
 that which is alieaged of both patties in this 
 behalfc. 
 
 TOuciS" ^^^^ thcny to the general aflertion , that no 
 abwTtto. ftrangerat almay inherite any thing , by any 
 iiyne^ meancs in Ingland, the faid book;es of M. Mor- 
 gan & my lord Rolle do anfwere , that in that 
 vniuerfal (enfe, it is falfe, fox that itappeareth 
 playnely by that which is fetdowne by law in 
 the fcueth & nynth yearesofking Edward the 
 fourth,& in the eleiicth,& fourtCQth of K.Hcrjr 
 the foarth,rhat a ftranger may purchafe land in 
 Ingland,asal(b that he may inherite by his wife 
 if he f hould marry an inheritrix. 
 Hw ftri Secondly they TayCjihat the true maxima or 
 gcri may rule againft the inheritance of ftrangers, is 
 gfoundcd only vppon a ftatute made in the ly. 
 yeare of king Edward the third, and is to be re- 
 ftrayned vnro proper inheritances only, to wit, 
 thatnoperfon borne out of the allegeance of 
 iheking of Ingland, whofe father and mother 
 ▼verc not of the fame allegeance at the tymc 
 of his birth (for fo are the wordes of the ftitute) 
 fluibe able to baue ot demaode 4ny heritage 
 
utheaS^ne. Van v Cap. V.] iff 
 
 Vviihintheiamealleagcance, as hcyre Co any 
 peifon. 
 
 Thirdly they fay, that this axiomeorgenc-H^cafoni^ 
 ral rule cannot any way touch or be apph>d^/jju[^ 
 to the fucceflion of che crowne, firft for rhac as touchctk 
 hath bin declafed before,no axiome or maxima 
 pfour law can touch or be vndciftood of mat- 
 ters concerning the crowne, except exprefle 
 mention be made therof^and that the crowne ^ 
 ispnuilcged in many pointes that other pti-^ 
 uate heritages be nor. 
 
 Andfecondly for that the crowne cannot 
 properly be called an inheritance of allcgeancc 
 pr within allegeance,as the wordes of the faid Thc--^ 
 ftature do ftande,for that it is not holde of any ^^^^^JJ^f^ 
 (bperiour nor with allegeance, but immediate i>y aiic- 
 ly from God. And thirdly for that the ftatntc g«^n^«* 
 meaneth plainly of mheritances by dircent(for 
 othervvifeasisfaid an allien may hold landes 
 by purchafejbut the crowne is aihingincor- 
 porate,and difcendeth not according to cheico- 
 nioncourfeofotherpriuate inheritances, but 
 rather gocth by fucceflion as other incorpora- 
 tions do, in fignewherof, no king can by law 
 auoidehis letters patents by reafon of his no- 
 nage, as other common heyres vnder age do, 
 butheiseuerprefumedtobeof fulage, inre- 
 (pedof his crowne, euen as a prior, parfon, 
 deane,or other head incorporate is^vvhich caa 
 neuer be prefumed to be within age, and fo,as 
 any fuch head incorporate though he be an 
 ailiea^ mighc inherilc or demaund landes ia 
 
 Ingland 
 
ii'4 Confemcetouclnngfuccefm 
 England for his incorporation notwithftanding 
 the former (lacute ^ fo much more the ijiheru 
 cour to the crowne. 
 
 Fourt Wy they faye that in the very ftatute ic 
 Iclfe their is exprellc exception of Infantes dti 
 X(i7,by which wordeSjthefc men da hold to be 
 vnderftood al the kmgs offpring or blood 
 royal,and they do fortifie their proofe, for that 
 otfierwifeking Edward the ?hird being th^n 
 aUue when this ftatute againft ftrangers vvaa 
 roade^and his children alfo,who had difperfed 
 ther blood by marriages ouer alChriftendome, 
 chey would neuer haue fufFred fuch a ftatute 
 to palle to their ownc preiudice, if the heritage 
 of the crowne f hould fall vnto them oi: any o^ 
 theirs, that f hould be borne abroade. 
 
 And finally thcfc mendofhewe how that 
 lUai^. king Stephen and king Henry, the fecond 
 borne out of the realme, and of patents that 
 were not of the allegeance of Ingland whet^ 
 they were borne, vvcre yet admitted to the 
 crowne without cotradidio in refpecft oftheic 
 foraine byrth, which argueth that by the com* 
 xnoncourfe of our old common lawes , therq 
 was no fuch ftoppe againft aliens, and that if 
 the ftatute made in king Edward the third his 
 dayes would haue derogated or abridged this 
 ancient libertie, it would haue made fpecial 
 mention therof, which it dothe not, as hath 
 by n f hewed, and by ihefereafons it feemeth, 
 ihat they haue anfwered fufficiently to thi$ 
 qJsi^^i^on o( forrayne birth> bpth, for th; 
 
' tdthe ci'oT^ne. Tart i. Cap. V. 114 ^ 
 fcynge of Scotland and al other pretenders that 
 ftte foraine bornCj fo as by this imped imct they 
 inaynot in right be excluded from their fuc- 
 ceflion. 
 
 So as now I will returns to f he\v the other 
 tea Tons t)fexclafion which men do layeagainft uJUr 
 the houfe of Scotland , wherof one is vrged J^l^^a 
 muche by the houfe of SufFolke,and grounded ^^^^5 
 Vppon acertayneteftamentofking Henry the^^,^ 
 eight as teforc hath bine touched, by which 
 tcftament the faid houfe of SufFolke, that is to 
 fay, theheyresofthe lady Francis, and of the 
 lady Elenor, neecesto king Henry the eight,bjr 
 his fecond filler Mar y»are appointed ro futceedc 
 in thccrowneof Inglandjbcfore the heires of 
 Margaret the firft filler, tnarried in Scotland^ 
 yf king Henryes owne children fhould come 
 to dye withou t i(Iue,as now they are al ly kc to 
 do, and this teftament had both the kings hand 
 Orftampevntoit, and diuers witnefles name* 
 befides, and was enrolled in the Chauncery & 
 irvas authorized by two adles of parlament,to 
 Vvit,inthei8.and 3j. yeares of king Henry, in 
 which parlaments authority was giuen to the 
 faid kingjtodifpofeandordeyne of this pointc 
 of fucccffion^ as he and his learned Councei | 
 fhould ihinke beft for the weale publike. 
 
 This is the efFedofthis argument , which 'Anfrve- 
 tlbeit the former bookes of M.Morgan and the ^.^^,^5 
 bifhopofRolTe, andfome other of the Scor-^a«cnf. 
 tifh fauourers , do feekc ro refute by diuers? 
 ineancs& wayes^as before in the firil chapter of 
 
 this I 
 
 \ 
 
fiS A Cpnfemce touching fuccefton 
 this difcoarfe is fet down c, and cfpecially laf 
 the leftimonie of iheL, Paget,and Syr Edward 
 ' Montagucjthatfaid the ftanupw^s pucvnto if 
 ^fcer the king was part (tnfe, yet they of ihe 
 houfeofSuftolkc are not fatisfted with that 
 anfwere, for that they fay that at lcaft,how(be* 
 tier that matter of the late feahng be, yetfeing 
 the king willed it to be donne,drawcn out and 
 fealed , itappearcth hereby that this was the 
 lalt vvil andiudgmentofking Henry, and nor 
 reuoked by hymrvvhich is iufticient('faye thefe 
 men) to anfwere the intent and meaning of 
 the realme, and the authority committed to 
 him, by thefprefaidtwoads of parlament^fot 
 the difpofing of the fucceflion , which twd 
 ads (fay the fe men ) contey ning the whole au* 
 thority of the common wealth , fo ferioqfly 
 and deliberately giue, in (o weightie an affaire^ 
 may not in rcafon be deluded or ouer rhrowne 
 now by the faying of one or two men^who for 
 pleafing or contenting of the tyme wherirt 
 they fpake, might fay or gefle that the kings 
 memorie was paft, when the ftampewas pur 
 vnto his teftament, which if it were fo^ yet if 
 he commanded, as hath byn faide, the thing to 
 |?edone, whikhehad memory (as it may ap^ 
 pearehedid, both by the wittnefles that fub^ 
 fcribed, and by the enrolement therof in the 
 chancervj no man can deny but that this was 
 the kings Lift wil, which is cnonghe forfatif- 
 fy ing the parlamcts intention, as thcfe men dd 
 affirmci 
 
 A fourth 
 
Wmero^nei Tart i. Cap, V. tvf 
 
 A Foanh argument is made againft the king of 
 Scotts fucceffion, byalihe other ^^^V^^^^^^^^l^^ 
 iointly 5 and it fecmeih ro rhcni , to be an argu^ excluded 
 mentthai hath no folution or reply , for that it ^^j^^Jj^ 
 is grounded vppon a plaync frefh ftatute,madc aflbcia- 
 in the parlainent holdcn in the ij. yearc (if I 
 erre not ) of her Maicfty that now is, vvhcrin is 
 xnadted & decreed, that whofoeucrfhalbc co- 
 winced locoiifpirc, attempt, or procure, the 
 death of the Qiieene, or lobepriuy oracccf. 
 farie tothcfame, fhal loofe alright, title, pre- 
 tcnce,clayrneor a(5Hon,that the fame parties or 
 their hey res haucor mayhaue, tothecrownc 
 oflngland.Vppon which ftatute, fcing that af- 
 terward the lady Mary late Queene of Scotlad, 
 moiherof this king, was condemned and exe- 
 cuted by the authority of the faid parlamenr, it 
 feemeth euidcnt, vnto thefe men, that this king 
 vvhoprerendeth al his right tothe crowne of 
 Ingland by his faid mother^ can haue none 
 atal. 
 
 And thefe are the reafons proofes & argu- 
 ments, which d ircrs men do alleagc againft the ^^j^^^ 
 rightoffucccflion, pretended by the king offidcmio* 
 Scots. But nowe if we leaue this pointc which J^^*^^ 
 concerneth the very right it fdf of his fucccf-ofscotf 
 ceffion by blood, & wil come to examine other 
 reafons and confiderations of ftate,and thofe 
 in particuler which before I haue men- 
 tioned that his fauourers do alleage,for the vii- 
 lity and common good that may be prefumed 
 Will rife to the realme of Ingland by his admif^ 
 
 fionro 
 
11 8 A Cmfcfcnce toucmgjij^^ 
 iRpnroburcrowne^asalfothe other point ai{?i 
 ofeftablifhmentof religioby them metioned; 
 then 1 fay,ihefe othet- me that are againft his exii 
 trance do produce many other rea(ons and con* 
 fidcrationsalfb, ofgreatinconueniences ^ as to 
 thcmihey feeme,againft this pointe bf his ad- 
 miflion and their reafons are thefe that fi^U 
 low. 
 
 Firft touching the publiquc good of the 
 gKf h common wealth, by the vniting of both 
 rcalmes of Ingland & Scotland together, thcfe 
 tncn do fayc, that it i$ very doubtful and difpu* 
 tabic whether the (late of Ingland f hal receaue 
 goodorharnie therby,ifthe faidcvnion could 
 l7in"md brought to pafle. Firft for that the ftate and 
 and Scot- condition ofScotlad welcofidered, it fecrfieih, 
 find to- thatitcan bring no other commodity to Ini» 
 ^ * gland, then increafe of fubiedls, and ihofe ra- 
 ther to parricipatethc commodities and riches 
 ^ X)flngland, then to iinpart any from Scotland. 
 Andthenfecondly , the auerfion and natural 
 alienation of that peopIe,from thelnglifh, and 
 their ancient inclination to ioyne with the 
 Freeh & Irif h againft vs,maketh it yciy proba* 
 ble^thati that fubiedlioii of theirs to the crowne 
 of Ingland, would not loug indiire, as by ex- 
 perience we haue fcene, fince the ty me of king 
 Edward the firft^vvhen after the death of their 
 king Alexander the third, without iifue, ihejr 
 chofe king Edward to be their king, dcliuered 
 their townes and fortrefles into his hands , did 
 fweaie him fealcy^reccaucdhis deputy Or.vice* 
 
 rojr 
 
tothecroWfte. Vart 1., Cav. V. up . 
 
 roy (as Polidorat large declarcth). And yet alj^^l^^^^^ 
 this ferued afterward , to no other efFed: butvit. Ed* 
 only (laughter, bloodfhed, and infinyt lofles^J^^ 
 and charges of Inglan^J. 
 
 Tliirdiy they fayc. 'that ifthe king of Scots i. 
 f hould come to poflefle the crowne of Inglad, 
 he cannot choofe fat leaft for many yearesjbuc 
 to ftnnd in great ieloiify of fo many other com^ 
 petitorsofthtlnglifh bloodroyal, as he fhal 
 finde in Ingland^againft whom he muft needes 
 fortifie himfelfe by thofe other forayne natios> 
 that may be prefumed to be moft fure vntb 
 him, though moft coptrary by natural inclina- 
 tion, & Icafttollerablcingouermec.tolngliifi 
 men^as are the Scots; of whom he is borne.and rnconnfe- 
 (dancs with whom he is allyed , and French of^J?^^*^ 
 whom he is defcended, and of the vnciuil part ging ftr^. 
 oflreland, with whom one great piece of his 
 realme hath tnoil coniun6lion,ihe authority 5? 
 Tway of which fower nations in Ingland, and 
 ouer Inglif h-men, what trouble it may wprkc 
 caerywife tpan may eafely cpniedturc. Befi- 
 tdes that; the Scots-men themfelues , (fpecially 
 thofe oFthe nobility) do openly profefle, that 
 they defire nor thisconiundlion and fubordi* 
 nation vnto Inglatxd, which in .no wife they 
 tan beare, both for the auerfionthey haue, to 
 allnglifh gouerment ouer them, as aliR) for 
 that their liberties are far greater, as now they 
 line, then in that cafe it would be fuffrcd, their 
 king coming hcciby to be oF greater power td 
 
1 : o A Conference touchhg fuccefm 
 
 force them to ihe forme of Inglif h fubied/on, 
 
 asnodoi.bt butm t)me he v\ould. 
 
 And feirg the grcateft vtihty that in rhis cafe 
 by realonand fMc b^bihiy can bc hcpedfor by 
 ihisvnion, is that theScotifh nation 1 hould 
 come ro be aduanced in Inglad, and to be made 
 ofthenobihty toch temporal and fpiricual, & 
 ofchepriuy councel^andof other lykc digni- 
 derrt\on ^^^^of crtdit and confidence (for orl eivvile no 
 ofinopoi- vnion or an itie durable can be hoped for) and 
 taacc. confidering that the king , boihforhis owne 
 fafetie (as before haih bin faid) as alfo for gra- 
 titude and loue to his owne nation , and allied 
 frends, muft needs plant them about him, in 
 chiefe place of crcdit,vvhich are moftcppofite 
 to Inghf h natures, and by litle Sc licle through 
 occafion of emulations and of conrrouerfies, 
 thatvvil fal out daylie betWixt fuch diuerfity 
 of nations, he muft needes fecreihe begin to 
 fauour and fortifie his owne ^ as we reade 
 Polydot. that William Conqueror did his Noimannes, 
 ^^^^^^"S and Canutus before him his Danes, to the in- 
 credible calamity of the Inglifh nation(though 
 otherwife neither of them was of themfclues 
 cither an euil king 5 or enimye to the Inglifh 
 bloodfbutdriuc hereunto forihcir owne fafiie^ 
 ahdfor ihatitvvas impoflTible to ftand neutral 
 in fuch national contentions : if al this (Ifayj 
 ' fcl out fo then, as we know it did, and our an* 
 
 ceftors felt it to their ex treme rume,w hat other 
 cfFc(3:can be hoped for now, by this violent 
 
 vnion 
 
tothecro^ne. Van 2. Cap. V. Hi 
 
 vm'onofnationsy that are by nature fo difnni- 
 ttdand oppofite, as are the I^ghl h, Scoci( h, 
 Iiifhe, Danifhe5Frenche& othei on rhem dc- 
 jpending, which by this meanes mufl: needis be 
 planted together in Ingland, 
 
 And ifvvercadc, that the whole reahnc oFgj^a^pj^ 
 Spayncdid refufe to admirt S. Lewis king ofofspainc. 
 Ffance,tobe their king inSpayne (to whom 
 yet by law of fucceffion it was euidcnt,& cdn- 
 fefled by the (paniards thcmfelues, is their 
 chroniclerGanbay writeth,that :he right mofi: Garibay 
 clearly dyd appertayne by his mother ^^^dy^j^^^ Dhi* 
 Blanch eldtft daughter and heyreof K. AlonCoizo;. 
 the nynih) and that they dyd this only for that 
 hevvasa Frenchman, and might therbv bring 
 the French to haue chiefe authority in Spayne r 
 and if for this caufe they did agree together, to 
 giuethe kingdome rather to Feixlinando the 
 third that was fonne of Lady Berenguela, yon- 
 gerlifter tothe faidlady Blanch, and if this de- 
 termination was thought at that tyme to be 
 wife and proiiident (though againftal right of 
 lineal fucccflionj and if we fee that it had good 
 fucceflcjforthat itindnreth vnro this day :what 
 (halwefayin this cafeCiay thefe men) where 
 the kinginqueftionisnotyeta S.Les^is, nor 
 his title to Ingland focleere, as that other wai$ 
 to fpayne, and theauerfion betwixt bis nation 
 and ours, much greater then was that betwixt 
 the french and Spanif h, thus they do reafon. 
 
 Agayne we heard out of thedifcourfe niade^^^^^P^ 
 i)y the Ciuiiian before, how the ftates of Por- Portugal 
 
 Aa 2 tugal 
 
1 i 1 A Ccnferetta fouchttig fuccefm 
 
 li^ix^Ji. ^"8^^ ^^^^^ de^ih of their king Dm Verdindn^ 
 An.Dhi do ihc fitft of that name y who left one only 
 daughter and heyre named lady Beattix rbar- 
 ried vnro lohn the firlJ king of Cad i!e, to who 
 the fucce(I]on of Portugal without al contro- 
 uerfie did apertaine, they rather determy ned to 
 chofe for their king abaftard brother, of the 
 fayd Don FemandOinsLtVicd lohn, then to admitt 
 the true inhereior Beatrix with the gouerment 
 ofihe Caftilians , by whom yet (they being 
 inuch the richer peoplej the Poriugals might 
 hope toreape far greater vtility then Inglifh 
 men can do by Scotland , confideiing it is 
 the poorer country and nation. A nd this is that 
 in tffcSt which thefemen do anfvvete in this 
 behalfe, noting alfo by the way, that the Ro- 
 < inas themfelues with al their power, could ne- 
 iier bring vnion or peace betweene theafe two 
 rations of I ngland & Scotlnnde,norhoId the 
 Scots and North-Irifh in obedience of any 
 authority refiding in Ingland,and fd in the end 
 StcTv.pa. they were enforced to cut them of^ & to make 
 ^^•^^•^^•that famous walle begun by Adrian, andpur- 
 fued by other Emperours to diuide them from 
 Inglad^and barre them from ioyning , as al the 
 world knoweth,and much Icffe fhal any one 
 kingliuingin Ingland now, hold them il in 
 obedience,lethim be of what nation, he vvil, 
 and this for the vtility that may be hoped by 
 this vnion. 
 
 But now for the other pointc alleagcd by 
 the fauourers of Scotland^ about cftablif hm€if 
 
 ofcme 
 
U the craifne. Part i. C a p. V. u 5 
 faftruc religion, in Ingland, by entrance of this 
 king of Scots, ihefe other me do hold that this 
 is the vvoorft and mod dangerous pointc of al or thc^ 
 pther,confidering what the ftate of religion is ^Ifclti 
 in Scotland at this day , and how difFeren t or ra- land, 
 iheroppo.fitc to that forme which in Ingland 
 ismainteyned, and when the Archbifhopes^ 
 bif hopes, doa nes archdeacons, and other fuch 
 ofeccleUaftical and honorable dignities of In- 
 gland, fhal confider that no fuch dignity or 
 promotion is left now ftanding in Scotland^no 
 nor any cathedral or collegiate church is re- 
 mayncd on fo.otc , with the rents and digni- 
 ties them n to apperteyning, and when our no- 
 ^ilyiie fhal remember how the nobihtie of 
 Scotland is fubicdl at this day to a few ordi- 
 nary and common miniftcrs ^ without any 
 head, who in their fynodcs and aflemblies 
 haue authority to p.ut to.the home , and driuc 
 out of the ^ea,lme any noble maavvhatfbeuer, 
 yvithout remedy or redreffe , except he vvil 
 yeald and humble himfelfc to them, and that 
 the king, himfelfe Ibndcth in awe of this 
 exorbitant and populer power of his mini- 
 ftcrs, and is content, toyeld therunta: it is to 
 be thought ffay thp(e men) that few Inghfb 
 be they of what, religion or opinion fo-euer, 
 vvil fhew themfelues forward to receaue 
 fuch a, I^ljng , in refpedl of his religion, that 
 hath no better order in his owne at home, 
 and thusmuph concerning the King ofScoc* 
 land* 
 
 Aa, 3 Now 
 
114 -A Conference touching f uccefwn 
 Qf tht^ Now then it remayneth, that we come to- 
 Udy Ar- treat of the lady Aibella,fecond branch of the 
 Wla- houfe of Scotlad^touching whofe title,thougK 
 much of chat which hath bin faid before, for 
 or againil the king of Scotland, may alfo be vn- 
 derftopdetoapparicyne vnto her, forthat I'hc 
 is of the fame houTe, yet fhal I in this place re- 
 peat in few woudes the principal points ihac 
 arc alleaged in her behalfe or prejudice. 
 I, Firft of al then, is alleaged for her,and by her 
 fauourcrs, that f he is defccnded of the forefaid 
 lady Margaret,elckft daughter of king Henry 
 thefeuenthjby her fecond marriage with Ar- 
 chibald Duglasearleof Anguys , and that fhe 
 is in the third degree onlv from her, for that 
 fhe is the daughter of Charles Steward who 
 was fonnc to Margaret Countefle of Lenox, 
 daughter to the laid lady Margaret Queene of 
 Scots,(oasrhislady Arbellais but neece once 
 rerooued, vnto the faid Queene Margaret, ta 
 wit in equal degrteofdiCcent with the king 
 of Scots, which king being excluded (as the 
 fauorers of this woman do affirme) by the cau- 
 fes and arguments before alleaged againft hym^ 
 noreafbn (fay they) but that this lady fhould 
 enter in his place.as next in blood vnto him. 
 ^ , Secondly is alleaged in her behalfe, that fhe 
 An la- asan Inglifh woman, borne in Ingland , and 
 rloman ^^P^^^^^s who at the tyme of hcrbitth were 
 oflnglil halleageancc, wherin fhegoeih be- 
 forcihckingof Scots,ashaih bin feene,as alio 
 iiuhis other principal pointc, that by her ad- 
 
 miflionj 
 
tothecro^ne. Fart i. Cap. V. iij 
 mifTion no fuch incoaiienier.ee can be feared 
 of bringing in (tringers, or cauling tr ^obles Sc 
 fedirion vvirh-in the rcalme,as in the pretence 
 oftheScotilh king hath bin confiJercd , and 
 this in effect is al that 1 haue heard alleaged for 
 her. 
 
 Biitagaiiift her, by other competitors and 
 tht^ir ffen ^-^t, Ihaue hard diuers arguments of^fbeui. 
 no fmale . portance andconfideiacion produ- 
 ced, wherof the firft i?, that which before hath 
 bin alleaged againii the kingof Scotlad in like 
 maner, to wir, that neither of them is properly 
 ofthe houfeofLancafter, as in thegenealogie 
 fee downe in the third chapter hath appeared. 
 And fcrcondiy that the title of Lacaftei is before 
 the pretence of Yorke, as hath bin proued inj^J^^f 
 the fo irihchapter,vvherof isinferred^rhat ney-th- houfc 
 theie the king of S:ots nor Aibi^lla^are next in clft«r' 
 fucceilio. and for th tt of thefc two propolirios, 
 iher hath bin much treated before, I re nirte 
 metherunto,only promifing that of the firllof 
 the two, which is how king Henry the feueib 
 was of the hou fe of Lancaller^toaching right 
 of fucceflion, I fhal handle more particnlerly 
 afterward when [ come-to fpeake of the houfe 
 of Portugaljwherby alfo f hal appeare playnly 
 what pretence of fucceflion to the crowne or 
 duchy ufLancafter the difcendentcs of the faid 
 king Heiuy can iaftely make. ^ 
 
 The fecund impediment , againft the lady The tcfta 
 Arbella isf he aforefaid tellament of king Hen- ^-^"^^g. 
 
 the eight and the two.adls of parlaments for ry. 
 
 Aa 4 autho- 
 
ti6 A Confetence touching fuccefm 
 authorifingofcheramc,byal which is preten- 
 ded that the houlc of Suffblke, is preferred be- 
 fore this other of Scotland. 
 ^ A tliird argument is, for that there is yet li- 
 ^ff/of** "i^goneofthehoufeofSufFolkjtharis neerer 
 darby by adcgrec to the ftemme, to vvit, to Hcry the 
 
 nccicr by feuenth to whom afcex the difceafe of her 
 % device* « ' 
 
 Jylaielly thatnowis,wemuftreturne , then is 
 
 %he lady Arbella or the Icing ofScots,and this is 
 the lady Margeret countefle of Darby , mother 
 to the prefent eaile of Darby vv hd was daugh- 
 ter to lady Elenor, daughter of Queene Mary 
 cfFrance^that was fecond daughter of king 
 Henry the Teucih, fb as this lady Margaret cou- 
 tefleoFDarbj^,isbut in the third degree from 
 the faid Henry^whcras both the king of Scot- 
 land and Arbella ar^ in the fourth, and con(e- 
 quently fhe is next in propinquitie'of blood, & 
 Ihow greatly this propinquity hath binfauou- 
 red in fiich cai^s, though they were of the yo- 
 gerliine, the examples before alleaged in the 
 fourth chapter do make raanifeft. " 
 ^^^^ Fourthlic and laftely , and mod ftrongly of 
 ^y^^^^,z\,ihcydo argue a^ainft the title of this lady, 
 iyc;' Atbella,affirming that herdifcent is not free 
 from baftardly, which they proue fir ft, for that 
 Queene Margaret foone after the death of her 
 firft husband king lames the fourth marrycd 
 fecretly one Steward lord of Anncrdale, which 
 Steward^ was alyue longe after her marriage 
 with Duglas , and confequently this fecond 
 ^rriage with Duglas (Steward being aliuc^ 
 
 could 
 
tothecrd^e. Tart Gap. V. iij, 
 
 could not be lawful, which they do prou^ alfo 
 by another meatie,for that they laic it is moft 
 cerraine, and to be made euidenc, that the faid 
 Archibald Duglas carle of Anguis had an 
 other wife aifo aliue,vvhen he itiarried the faid 
 Queene, which points rhey fay were fo pu- 
 bhque as they came to king Henries cares, 
 whervppon, he fcnt into Scotland the lord 
 William Howard, brother to the old duke of 
 Noifolkcjand father to the px:.crent lord Admi- 
 ral of Ingland, to enquire of chefe pointcs, and 
 the fiid lord Howard founde them to be ^r^^j^n-^^^ 
 and fo he reported not only to the king, butthcioid 
 aifo afterwards many cymes tootheis,atid i^^- jj^^yy^^j* 
 mely to Queene Mary to whom he yyas lord 
 Chamberlay nc^and to diuets others, of whom 
 many be yet liuing, which can and willte- 
 ftefy the fame, vppon the relation they heard 
 from the-fayd lord Williams owne mouche, 
 vvheruppon king Henry yyas greatly offen- 
 ded, and would haue letted the marriage be- 
 iweene his faid lifter and Doglas, but that 
 they were married in fecret , and had confum- 
 inate their rnarriage, before this yyas knownc, 
 or that the thingcould be prcueptcd,vvhich is 
 thought, was one efpecial caufcand motiuc 
 aifo to the faid king afterward, to put back the 
 iflueofhis faid fifter of Scotland, as by his for- 
 named teftament is pretended, and this tou- 
 ching Arbelks title by propinquiiie ^y^^^^* other 
 
 But bcfides this, thefame men do alleage di^rcaiom of 
 l(icrs reafons aifo of inconucnienccin refpcd^^^^ 
 
 V- . - • . / , again ft 
 
 Aa J cfthcAibeiU. 
 
liS A Conferme touching fuccepoH 
 ofche common Vvealche,for which in their 
 opinions it fhould be hurtful to the reahne to 
 admitt this lady Arbella for Qi^^ene, asfirftof 
 al for chvit The is a woman, who ought not to 
 be preferred, before fo many men as ac this 
 tymedoormay lUnd for thecro^vne: and that 
 it were much to hiuc three women to reignc 
 m IngUnd one after the other, vvher-as in the 
 fpace of a-boueathoufaiiyeares before them, 
 there hath not reigned fo many of that fexe^ne- 
 ther together nor a lander, for that from king 
 Cerdick firft king of the weft Saxons, vnta 
 E^brii^ht the htft monarch of the [nohfh na- 
 meand nation, cojiteyning the Ipace of" more 
 then 5 0o.yeares, noonevvoma at al is fotinde 
 to haae reigned , and from Eg bright to the 
 ConqucftjWhich is almoft other ^oo. yeares, 
 nt if the like is to be obferued , and from the con- 
 ►mcn. queftdownewardjVvhichisaboue yoo. yeares, 
 one only woman was admitted for inheritrix, 
 which was Maude the EmprelTe, daughter of 
 king Henry the firft, who yet after her fathers 
 death was put back, and king Srephen was 
 admitted in her place, and fhe neucr reccaued 
 bytherealme, vntil her fonne Henry the fe- 
 cond was of age to gouerne himfclfe , & thea 
 he was receaued with expre(re condition, thaC 
 he fhould be crowned, and gouerne by him- 
 yi.Lii felfe^aad not his mother, which very canditid 
 vvas.pat alfo by the fpaniards not long after, at 
 theiradmittingof the lady Berenguclayongec 
 fifter of lady ^lauch nccfc to kingHemy the fe- 
 
 cond. 
 
Hthecro^rte. Part i. Cap. V. 119 
 
 condivvherof beft)xe often mention hath bin 
 made^to wir ihc condition vvas^that bet fonnc 
 F.rnado fhuuU gouerne, and noc fhc^thoi gh 
 his t<tle came by her, lo as this circiimftance of 
 being a woman, hath, euer bin of much con(7- 
 deration, efpecially where men do pretend alfo 
 as in our cafe rhey doe. 
 
 An other conhderario ofthefemrn is,that if G^jitay 
 this lady, fhould beaduanced vnro thecrownc,li'iiC4» 
 though fhe be of noble blood by her farhers 
 fide, yet in refpLftc of alliance VTith the nobility 
 oflngland I heisa rncere flrainger,for that her 
 kyndred is only in Scotland, and in InglaJ fhe 
 hath only the Candifhcs by her mothers fide, 
 who being but a meane farcilie, might caufe 
 much grudging am5g the Inglif h nobility, to 
 fee them fo greatly aduanced aboue the reft, as 
 neceffarily they muftbc, yfthiswoma of their 
 linage fhould come to be Queene,vvhich how 
 the nobility oflngland would beare,is hard to 
 fay, and this is as much as I haue heard others 
 faye of this matter, and of al the houfe of Scot- 
 land: vvheifore vviihthisl fhalend^and paiTc 
 ouer to treat alfo of the oth: r houfes that do re- 
 majne of fuch as before 1 named. 
 
 OF THE 
 
I JQ A Confennce touching fuccefm^ 
 
 OF THE HOVSE OF 
 
 SVFFOLK CONTEYNING THE 
 
 CLAYMfiS 6? THE COV^NTESSE Of 
 
 Darby and her children^ as alfo of the children 
 of rhcearle of Hartford^ 
 
 Cap- VI. 
 
 IT h^tK appeared by the gcncalogie (c^ 
 dovvne before in the third chapter, and oftc- 
 tymes mentioned fince, how that the hpufe oC 
 Suffolk is fo called, for that the la^y Mary fecod 
 daughter of king Henry the feu^ot!)>beipg firfl^ 
 married to Lewis the ii. king.of pJfanc^ , was 
 afterward married.to,CKarIps Brandon duke of 
 Suftolke, who bifing feat ouer to condole the 
 death of the laid king, g^t the goodwill ta 
 marry the widow Queene , though the com- 
 mon fame of al men wasjthat the faid Charles 
 had a wife lyuing at that day, and diuers yeares 
 after, as in this chapter we I hal examine more 
 in partjculer. 
 
 The imie ^^^^ Chatlps Bf ^ndojn t^h^n^duke of Suf- 
 efchat- folk, this Qupne M?ry of France liad. two. 
 daughters,firlt the bdy FraQcis marricd to Syc 
 Henry Gray marques Dorfer, and afterward in 
 the right of his wife, duke alfo of SufFolke, 
 who was afterward be-hedded by Queenc 
 Wlary, and fccondly lady Elenor married to Syr 
 H^nry Clifford carle of Cumbeiland. 
 la^^FiL ^ '^^y Francis elder daughter of the 
 47 " (^leenc and of Charles Brandon, had iffue by 
 
 her 
 
ti>thecrt>^ne. i. Cap. VI. 131 
 
 lier husband the faid laft duke of SiiiFolke ; 
 threcdatightcrSjtowit, lane, Catherin , and 
 Mary^ which Mary the yongeft was betroched 
 firft to Arthur lord Gray of Wilton, and afrcr 
 Icfteby hym,fhe was marrycd to one M.Martin stoTv.an. 
 keyes of kentjgentlcma porter ofrhe Quccnes 7 Edon. < 
 honrholde^and after f he dyed without ilfuc. 
 
 And thelady4iineTheeldfft of the three fi- 
 fters was married at the fapie tyme to the lord 
 Guylford Dudley, fourth fonne to Syr lohn 
 Dudley duke of Northumberland, and was 
 prochymtd Quetne after the death of king 
 Edward /jfbr which ade al three of the, to vvic^ 
 both the father, fonne and daughter in law^» 
 Were put to death foone after. 
 
 But the L.Catherin the fccond daughter, 
 was married firft vppon the fame day that the ca^^ji^. 
 other two her frftcis vvete , vnt o lord Henry 
 Herbert now earle ofPenbroke^and vppon the 
 falat^d mifery of her houfe , fhe was left by 
 him,andfofheliued a fole vvoman fordiuers 
 yeares, vntil in thebegining of this Quecnei 
 dayesyfhe was found to be with child ^ which 
 fhe affirmed to be by the lord Edward Scymer 
 carle of Hartford, who at that tyme was in 
 France, with Syr Nicholas Throgmorton the 
 Embaflador, and had purpofe and licence tO 
 haue trauailed into Italic , but being called 
 home in hade vppo this new accideni,he cofeC 
 fed that the child was his, and both he and the 
 lady affirmed that they were man and vvife,but 
 for that they could not prouc it by wiineires; Sc 
 
131 A Cofifer(^ce touching fuccefton 
 for attempting fuch a nintch wiihonc of tfie 
 blood royal jWithoiu priuity and licence of ihe 
 princCjihey were comniured both of them to 
 the tower, where they procured mcanes to 
 n^eeteagaine afterward^& had an other chiide, 
 which both children do yet liue, and the c Ider 
 ofthemiscallcd lord Henry B^acham, and the 
 other Fdward Seymer^ the mother of whom 
 lined not long after,4rfKther married the eai le 
 againe,vntil of late that he married the lady 
 Francis Howard^ filter to the lady Sheff(:ild,and 
 thi? is all the iHuc of the elder daughter of 
 Charles Brandon ^ by lady Mary Qneene of 
 France. 
 
 l^^^ The fecondd,inphter of duke Charles and 
 
 oils, tic- , ^ . T T-l 1 
 
 ZHOU the C^ieenr^ named L.Elenor,vvas married to 
 "^^Henry lordCliford earleofCumbciland , and 
 had by him a daughter named Mnrgarct, that 
 married Syr Hery Stanley, lord Srragc & after 
 earleof Darbv, by whom the faid lady (who 
 yetliuethy hath had idiie Ternande Stanley, now 
 carleof Darby ,\Villiam and Francis Stanley, & 
 this istheiffueofthehoufeof Suffolk, to vvir, 
 this Countelfe of Darby ,\vith her thildren^and 
 ihefe other of the earleof Hartford,of al whofc 
 claymes and titles with their impediments, I 
 f hal here briefly giue accompt and reafon. 
 
 Firft of aljboth of ihefe fainilies do ioync to- 
 gether in this one pbinte, to exclude the houfe 
 of Scotland both by foraine birth, and by the 
 forefaid teftament of king Henry authorized 
 by twoparlaments^ & by the other exclufions 
 
 which 
 
tothe croTirne. Tart i. Cap. VT. I3J 
 
 V.hichincach of the titles of the king of Scots ^"^Pjl 
 and of lady Aibcllahath bin before al le aged, the hou- 
 Buc then Iccondly they coni« to vary betweene J^^^^ ^ 
 thcmleliieSjabout the priority or propinquitie hartiord 
 cfd cii owut fucceflion/orthecbildien of the ^^^^^^ 
 cailc of Hdfifordj and their fiendes do allcage , theoihei. 
 thacthty do difcend of lady Francis the elder 
 filler of lady Ek*nor , and To by law and reafon 
 arc to be pre fci red , burthe other houfe allea- 
 gethagainft this, two impedimcnts,the one, 
 that the lady Margaret countelle of Darby now 
 lyuingjis neeiei by one degree to the fteinrrc, 
 that is to king Hemy the leucnth^then arethc 
 children of rhe eurteof Hartford , and confe- 
 qaently according to that which in the former Chad^» 
 fonnhchaptcrhath bin declared, The is to be^a^^-^^** 
 preferred, albeit the children of the faid earle^vyfea 
 were legitimate. ^ 
 
 Secondly they doaffirire^that the faidchil- Firfl ba. 
 drencftheeatle of Hartford by the lady C^-z^linxi 
 therin Gray, many waies arc illegitimate, Firfttheiflue 
 for that the (aid lady Caiherin Gray their mo- fj^^^/ * 
 ther was lawfully married before to the earle of 
 Penbrok now liuing,as hath bin touched^ and 
 publike lecordes do teftifie , and not lawfully srow in 
 feperated nor by lawful authority, nor for ^"ft^^^*^^*^* 
 caufesjbut onlyfor temporal and wordly vc^An]u$t, 
 fpedsjfor that thehoufeof Suffolk was come 
 into mifery & difgrace, vvherby fhe remayned 
 ftil his true wife in deede and before God, & fo 
 could haue no lawful children by an other 
 Whiles he liued as yet he doth. 
 
 Agaync 
 
I}4 ACcnferehcctouchwgfuccefm 
 s-^Baftai. Agaync they proue the illegitimatio of thefe 
 children of the earle ofHauford , for chat ip 
 could neucr be lawfully proued that the (aid 
 carle and the lady Catherirt were married^ hue 
 Only by their owne alTertions, which in law. i$ 
 not holdenfufficient, for which occaficn the 
 faid pretended ttlarriage vvasdifanulled in the 
 tourtbf arches, by publiqu^^dcfinitiue fen- 
 tence,of Dbdkor Parker iarchbifhop of Caa* 
 terbury,and prymate of Ingland^ not long af- 
 ter the birth of the faid children, 
 i^aftar- Fiirther-morc they do add yet an other ba- 
 ftardy a]ro, ii> the birth of lady Catherin her 
 felfe,for that her father lord Henry Gray rhar-. 
 quesbfDocfet, Wasknbwne to l^aue a lawful 
 %ifeaiiuevvhenhe married the lady francis;; 
 daughter and hey re of the Qujf ene of FranCe^Sc 
 of Charles Brandon duke ofSufFolke,and mo- 
 ther of this lady Catherin , for obteyning of 
 which gr^at marriage 5 the faid marques, put 
 away his forefaid lawful wife, which was fip 
 terto the L, Henty Fytzallen earle of AiondeJ; 
 vvhich diforder was ocfcafion of much vnkindr 
 nes and hatred beiweene the faid marques and 
 icarleeuer after. But the pbWer of the marques 
 Sind fauour with king Henry in ivomens mat- 
 ters, was fo great at that tyme^^s the carle 
 icould hauenoremedie, but only that his faid 
 ififter who lined many yeares after, had an ?in- 
 puityeout of the faid marques landsduring her 
 lik^Sc liued fome yeaies after the faid marques 
 
(afterwards made duke)vvas put to death in 
 Quecne Maries ty me. 
 
 Thefe then arc three waies,by which the fa* 
 xnily of Darby do argue the iffue of Hartford 
 to be illegitimate^ but the other two houfes of 
 Scotland and Clarence^ doVrge a former ba-Tii^ 
 ftardyalfothatis common to them both, to^o^J^^^ ^ 
 wit, both againft the lady Francis and the hdy^onto^ 
 Eleanor,for that the lord Charles Brandon ^'^^^{.^^^ 
 duke of Suffolk had a wife a hue, as before ^Jif^ii^ 
 hath bin fignified, when he married the ladj 
 Mary Qupene of France^by which former wife 
 he had iffue the lady Powy fc (I mcane the wife 
 of my lord Powy fc of Poyftlandes in VVales)& 
 how long after the new marriage of her huf- 
 band Charles Brandon y this former wife did 
 liue, I cannot fetdownc diftindbly, though [I 
 think it were not hard to take patticulcr infor- 
 mation therof in Ingland,by the regifter of the 
 church whcrin f he was buried, but the fredcs 
 of the countefle of Darby do affirme , that f he 
 died before the birth of L.Eleanor the fecond 
 daughter, though after the birihe of lady Fran- 
 cis, and thereby they do feeke to cleare the fa- 
 milieof Daibyof thisbaftardye, andro lay al 
 foure vppon the childen of Hartford before 
 mentioned, but this is eafy to be knowne & 
 verified by the mcancs before fignified. 
 
 But now the frerides of Hartford do anfwere fwcrc of 
 to al thefe baftardies,ihat for the firft ^^^^ P^^- ^^jf^^^ 
 tended by the marriages of the two dukes ofto the Voir 
 Suffolk, they faye that either the caufes might If ^^^^ 
 
 ' Bb be rich 
 
13^ AConfer^^ 
 be fuch^as their dcuorces v\ ith their former wi- 
 nes migh be lawful, and prouc them no mar- 
 riages,and To giue tlicm place to marrie againe^ 
 Of els ihat the (aid former wiues dyd dye before 
 ihefe dukes that had bin their hul bands, fo as 
 by a poft'Contradi and fecond new confent^ 
 giuen betweene the parties when they vveie 
 now free,the faid later mairiages which were 
 notgoodat the begining , might come to be 
 lawful aftervvards.according as the law permit- 
 teth,Botwithftanding that thildien begotten 
 in fuche pretcdcd matriages where one partyc 
 is aliedy boundCjare not made legicimar, by 
 fubfequent rrtw marriage of their parentes, & 
 this for the firft two baftardies* 
 
 But as for the third illegitimation , of the 
 contradl betweene the lady Catherin and the 
 carle of Ha?l(brd, by reafon of a preconrra^ 
 made betweene the faid lady Catherin and the 
 earleof Penbroke, that now liueth^ they fayc 
 andaffirme,that precontfad: to haue bin dif- 
 folued afrerw^ard lawfully and iudicially, in the 
 ty me of Queen e Mary» 
 
 There remayneih then only the fourth obic- 
 &i6y about the fecrec mdrriage made betweene 
 the faid lady Catherin and the earle of Hart-; 
 cfthz^ fordjbcfore the birth of their eldeft lbnne,now 
 tctvvcen ^^^^^^ L.Beacham, which to fay thetruth fee- 
 thccarie meth the hardeft pointc to be anfwered, for al- 
 foidTnd "^^^^ hi the fight of God, that marriage might 
 thcL.ca-be good and lawful ^ if before their carna^ 
 tha\n knowlcdge,they gaue mutual confcnc the one 
 
 to the 
 
HthecYo^nt. VM 1. Cap. VI. tj^ 
 to the other, to be man and wife, and with 
 that mynde and intention had carnal copula- 
 tion, which thing is al(b allowed by the late 
 Councel of Trent it felfe, which difaniillcthconci!. 
 Dthcrwife al clandeftinc and fccret contrads in J^lf ^^.^ 
 fuch dates and countries, wher theaothoritiecap.i. 
 ofthe faid councel is receaued , andadmirred, 
 yet to iuftifie tfiefe kide of marriages in the face 
 of the church, and to make the iHue therof le^ 
 gitimate and inheritable to eftates and poffed 
 fionsiit is necclFary byai law, and in al nations, 
 that there f hoilld be Tome vvitncs to teftifie this 
 confent and contract of the parties befoie their 
 carnal knowledge, for that otherwife it fhould 
 lye in euery particuler mans hand^to legitimate 
 any baftard of his, by his only woord,to the pre- 
 iudiceof others that might in cquitie of fuc- 
 teflion pretend to be his hey res, and therfore 
 {'nodoubtj but that the Archbifhop of Can- 
 terbury had great reafon to pronounce this 
 contcadofthelady Catherin,and iheearle of 
 Hartford to be infufhcient and vnlawful, 
 though themfelues did affirme that they had 
 giuen mutual confent before, of being man & 
 wife, and that they came together, anim marU 
 r^/i,asthelawof wedlock requireih, but yet 
 for that they were not able to proue their faid 
 Former confent, by lawful witncfTes, theit 
 faide coniuntffcion was rightly pronounced vn* 
 lawful, and fo I conclude that the firft fonne 
 ofthefetwo parties, might be legitimate be- 
 fore God, and yet illegitimate before men, and 
 I Bb 1 coiife- 
 
 i ' ■ 
 
X 3 8 A Cm fame tBUchkg fucceftoH 
 confequently incapable of al fuch fucccflTof*^ 
 as otherwife he might pretend by his faid mo- 
 ther. 
 
 How the And this now is for the firft begotten of 
 [^^^^"^ thefe two perfons, for as touching the fecond 
 the carle childe, begotten in the tower of London , di- 
 ford may ^^^^ learned men are of opinion that he may 
 be icgiti- be freed of this baftardy^for that both theearlc 
 and the lady being examined vppon their firft 
 childjdidconfefiTeand affirme that they were 
 man and wife , and that they had meaning fo 
 to be, and tocontinew, which confeffion is 
 thought to be fufficient, both for ratifying of 
 their old cotradl, and alfo for making of a new 
 yfthe other had not bin made before. And 
 feeing that in the other former pretended con- 
 trad: and marriage, their wanted nothing for 
 iuftifying the fame before men,and for making 
 it good in law, but only external teftimony of 
 witnefles/or prouing that they gaue fuch mu- 
 tual confent of myndcs before their carnal 
 knowledge (for the prefence of prieft or mi- 
 nifter is not abfolutly neceflary) no man can 
 fay that theirwantedwitneffes for teftifying of 
 this confent, before thefecond copulation, by 
 which was begotten their fecond (bnnc, for 
 that both the Queene herfelfe and her coun- 
 cel,and as many befides as examined thefc par* 
 lies vppon their firft adle and childbirth, are 
 witneflesvnto them, that they gaue their ful 
 confents and approbations , to be man & wife^ 
 t vhich they ratified afterward in the tower by 
 
 the 
 
ft thtcro^m. Part i. C a p. V 1 1. i j 9 
 
 the begetting of their fecond child, andfo for 
 the reafons aforc-faid,hc muft needes feeme to 
 belegicimatc,vvhatfoeuer my lord of Cancer- 
 bury for that tyme or in rerpe<Sl of the great 
 offence, taken by the eftate againft that adl:, 
 didjOr might determyncto the contrary. 
 
 And this is the fomme of that which com- 
 monly is treate'd , about thefe two families of 
 ihehoufe of Suffolk , to wit of Hartford and ^^^f^ 
 Darby, both which families of Suffolke , the thehoufc 
 other two oppofire houfes of Scotland and^^^*^^^' 
 Clarence, do fcekc to exclude by the firft ba- 
 ftardy , or vnlawful conrrad: betweene the 
 Queene of France and duke Charles Brandon^ 
 as hath bin (eene: of which baftardyc the houfe 
 of Darby doth indeuour roaiioidc it feife, in 
 manner as before hath bin declared , and prc- 
 ferreih it felfe in degree of propinquity net 
 only before the fdrefaid two houfes of Scot-^ 
 land and Clarence, but alfo ' before this other 
 part ofthe houfe of SufFolke, I meanc the fa- 
 miIieofHartford,though defcended of the el- 
 der daughter, for that the counteflc of Darby 
 doth hold her felfc one degree necrer in dif- 
 I cent, then are the other pretenders of Harr- 
 i ford as hath bin fhewed. And albeit their 
 i want not many obiedkions and rcafbns of 
 j fome, againft this pretence of the houfe of 
 j Darby, befides that which I haue touched be* 
 j fore, yet for thatthey are for the moft part par- 
 1 fonal impediments, and do not touch the right 
 I Qrfubftancc ofthe title, or any other impor- 
 1 Bb 5 tant 
 
J 40 A Conference touching fuccefm 
 tant reafbn of ftare concerning the common 
 wealth; but only the miliike of the peifons 
 that pretendc, andiof their hfe and goucrmentj^ 
 I fhalomitt them in this place, for that as in 
 thebeginingl promifcd, fofhal I obfcrue as 
 xr-uch aslicihin me, to vtter nothing in this 
 conference ofours that may iuftly cfFcnd , an4 
 inuchlcfle touch the honor or reputation of 
 any one perfon of the blood royal of our re- 
 gime, when the tyme of admitting or exclu- 
 ding cometb, then vvil the realme confider a$ 
 wcl of their perfons as of their rightcs^and vvil 
 fee, what accompt and fatisfadtion ech perfon 
 tathgiuen of his former life and doings, and 
 according to that vvil proceedc , as is to be 
 fuppofed: but to ttfc in this place, it fhalbc 
 enough to treat of the firft pointe, which is of 
 the right and intereft pretended by way of fuc- 
 f:eflion, and fo with this Ifhalmalce an endp 
 of thefe families , and paHc ouer ;o Qthci;^ 
 that yet 4o rcmaync. 
 
 OF TH6 
 
'to tbccrol^ne. Part i. G a p. V 1 1. 141 
 
 OF THE HOVSES OF 
 
 CLARENCE AND BRITANIE, 
 
 WHICH CONTEYNfiTHE CLAYMES 
 
 the earle of Huntington, '^ith the TooTes, as alfa 
 of th^Udj Infanta, ofspajm^aniothm 
 of thofe families. ^' < • 
 
 Cap. VIL 
 
 HA y J N G declared the chymes, Hgbtes 
 and pretences,whjch the cvvo noble hoii- 
 fes of Scotland and Suffblke, defcended of the 
 two daughters of king Hery the feuentbvhaue 
 or may haue to the fuccefljon of Ingland, with 
 intention afterward to handle the boufeof 
 ' Portugal a parc,vvhich pretendeth to compre- 
 hend in it fclfe the whole body > or at leaft the 
 firft and principal brancbof the ancient houlc 
 gfLancafter, it fhalnotbe ami(Ie, perhaps by 
 the way, to tr^atc in this one chapter, fo miich 
 as appartayneth to the twft fcueral houfesof 
 Clarence and Bxitanie, for that there is leflTe to 
 be faid about them then of the other. 
 
 And firft of aljamofoprnioti, that the earle 
 of Huntington, and fuch other pretendorS asearie^of 
 are of the houfe of iTorke alone,before the con^ Jas^hLufc 
 iundlion of both houfes by king Henry the is raid to 
 (euenth, may be named to be of the houfe of^^^pJ^Qf 
 j Clarence arid fo fordiftinftion fake, I do name clarence. 
 I tKem,for not to confound them with the hoii- 
 1 fes of Scotland and SufFolke, which are termed 
 , alfo by theLancaftrians to be of the houfe of 
 I Bb 4 Yorkc 
 
142. A Confetenct touching fuccffm 
 Yorke alone, for that they deny them to be of 
 the true houfe of Lancaftcr,but principally I do 
 name them to be of the houfe of Clarence^ for 
 that in deed al their clayme and title to ihc 
 crowne, doth difcende from George duke of 
 Clarence, as before in the third chapter and 
 ^ other where hath bin declared, which duke 
 George being brother to king Edward the 
 fourth,and put to death by his order , left ifluc 
 Edward earle of Warwick and of Salisbury, 
 which was put to death by king Henry the 
 of cia- feuenth in his youth, and Margaret counteflc 
 wcc. ofSalisbury, which Margaret had iflue by Syr 
 Richard Poole, Henry Poole lord Montague, 
 afterward behedded,and he agayne Gatherin^^ 
 married to Syr Francis Haftings earle of Hun- 
 tmgton,by whom fhe had Sir Henry Haftings, 
 now earle of Huntington,Syr George Haftings 
 his'brother yet liuinge,& others,fo as the earle 
 of Huntington with hisfaid bretheren be in 
 the fourth degree from the faid George duke of 
 Clarence., to wit his nephcwes twice rcmo- 
 ned. 
 
 iflueof Thefaidc Margaret counteflc of Salisbury 
 looicP^^^^^ a yongcr fonne alfo, named Syr Geffrey 
 Poole, who had iflue an other GefFrey,and this 
 Geffrey hath two fonnes that liue at this day in 
 Italic, named Arthur and Geffrey, who be in 
 the fame degree ofdiftance, with the faide earle 
 of Huntington , fauing that fomealleage for 
 them, that they dodilcend al by male kindc 
 from Margaret J and the carle preccndeth by 
 . aWomaOjj 
 
tothtctii^ne. ?an i. Gap. VIL 145 
 a Woman , vvhcrof we fhal (peake after- 
 ward . 
 
 Hereby then it is made manifeft, how the 
 carle of Huntingto commeth to preteud to the 
 crowne of Ingland, by the hou fe of York only, 
 which is no other in deedCj but by the debar- .^j^^ 
 ring and difabling of al other former preiedois, leftpicte- 
 iiotonlyof Portugal, and of Britanie, as ftr^i^-^j^fof* 
 gerSjbucalfoofthe hou fes of Scotland & Suf- Hunting- 
 folke,that hold likewife of the hou fe of Yorke, 
 and that for the reafons and argumets which 
 ' in the former two chapters I haue fetdowncin 
 particuler,againft euery one of chcm, and fhal 
 here-afcer alfo againe ihofe that remaine, 
 which arguments and obieftions, or any of 
 them, if chey fhould not be founde fufBcienr^ 
 to exclude the faid other houfes, then is the 
 clayme of this houfe of Huntington therby 
 made voide,for that it is f as v ve fee)by the yon* 
 ger childe of the houle of ¥orke,that is to {aye, 
 by the fecond brother: fo as if either the pre- 
 tence of Lancafter in general be better the that 
 of Yorke , or if in the houfe of Yorke it felfe, 
 any ofthefornamed pretenders defcended fio 
 K. Edward the fourth as of the eWer brother , 
 may hold or take place, then holdeth not this 
 title of Clarence /or that (as I haue faid) it co- 
 ming from the yonger brother, muft needes be 
 grounded only, or principally vpp5 the barring 
 I and excluding of the reft, thatioyntly do pre- 
 I ted: of which barres and exclufions laid by this 
 I faoufe of Clarence againft the reft /for that i 
 
 B b / haue 
 
144 ^ Conference touching fuccepoH 
 haue (poken fufHcietly in the laft two chapters, 
 going tefore, for fo much as toucheththe two 
 houfcs of Scotland and SufFolk,and f hal do af- 
 terwards about the other two of Britanie and 
 Portugal, I meane in this place to omir to fay 
 any more therin,& only toconfidervvhat the 
 obieft os competitors do alleage againft this houfc 
 agalftft^^^of Clarence, and efpecially agaynft the pre-t 
 tence of the earle of Huntington, as chiefe tit- 
 ler therof, for to rhe excluding of him, do con- 
 curr not only thofe other of oppofice hou fes, 
 but alfo the Pooles of his owne houfe , as now 
 we f hall fee. 
 
 Firft then,the contrary houles do.alleage ge- 
 nerally againft al this houfeof Clarence , that 
 feingtheirclayme is founded only vppon the 
 fight of the daughter of George duke of Cla^ 
 rcnce, fecond brother to K.Edward the fourth, 
 cuident ic is,that fo long as any lawful iffue re- 
 maynethof any eldecdaughter,ofthe faid king 
 Edward the elder brother (as they fay much 
 doth and cannot be denyed) no clayme or pre- 
 tence of the yonger brothers daughter, can be 
 admitted, and fo by ftandjng yppon this , and 
 anfwering to the obic6lio,a.si alieaged beforje^ 
 againft the elder houfes, they hold this matter 
 for very cicere,andalpi'etencc of thi$ houfe of 
 Clarence vtterly excluded . 
 
 Secondly the fame oppofite houfes do al- 
 leage diuers attainders againft the principal 
 •f^Huri.^* heades of the houfc of Clarence, vvherby theic 
 fuigtQji, VYhole intetcfts v vet/s cut of, as namely it is to 
 
 befhc- 
 
lothecYoJ^ne. Part i. Cap, VIL 14/ 
 
 be f hewed in three difcenrs, the one after the 
 other, to vvic in duke George himfelfejChe fiift 
 bead & beginner of this he u fc, that was attain- 
 ted and executed, and then in ihc lady Marga- 
 ret his daughter and heyre, counttde of SaUf- 
 bury, and in hke manner aitaynted and execu- 
 ted:thirdly in her fonne and hey re Henry Poole 
 lord Monraguepucalfo rodeath, from vvhofc 
 dauohters both the earle of Huntington & his 
 brethren, with the children of Syr Thomas 
 Partington do deicende, and albeit fome may 
 fay, that the faidhoufc of Clarence hath bin 
 fince thofe attainders/eil:ored in blood, yet re- 
 ply thefe men , tha? except it can be 1 hewed 
 that particuler mention was made of reabili-Rcftim- 
 tingthe/ameto thispretence of fucceffipn tOtion may 
 thecrowne,irvvilnotbefufficient, as in like^,^J2 
 manner they affirme^that the fame reftoring in without 
 blood (if any fuch were) hath not bin fufficiet ottgl 
 to recouer the ancient landes and titles of ho- tic. 
 nor,which this houfe of Clarence had before 
 ihefc attainders, for that they were forfaited 
 therby to the crowne^and fo fay thefe men was 
 theirforfeitedtherby in like mannej vntothc 
 next in blood not attainted^ this prerogatiue of 
 fucceedingto thecrownc , and cannot be re- 
 ftored againe by any general rcftauration in 
 blood, except fpecial mention be madethcrof^ 
 cuenasvve.(ce,that many houfes attainted arc 
 reftored daylie in blood, without reftoremet of 
 their titles apd dignities^, and a prefenr example 
 Vvc ^xaue in the earlc of Arundei reftored in 
 
 blood 
 
r^6 A Conference mchtngfuccepim 
 blood but not to the title of duke of Norfolke^ 
 ^ and this fayc the oppofitc houfes againft this 
 houfe of Clarence. 
 Tficprr- Bur now thirdly cntrethin alfo againft the 
 thePo(Scs ^^^'^ Huntingron,ihc oppofition of fomc of 
 a!?atiift hisowne houfe , which is of theiirue of Syr 
 Geffrey Poole,brother to his grad father, who 
 fay, that when the lord Henry Montague was 
 pur to death with his mother thecountefle of 
 Silisbury^and therby both their pretences and 
 titles cut of in them , then fcl al fuch right as 
 they had or might haue, vppo the faid Sir Gef- 
 fry Poole,and not vppon his neece the lady Ca« 
 cherin daughter of the lord Henry his elder 
 brother, and mother of the earle of Huntingto^ 
 and this for three caufes. Firft for that he was 
 not attainted, and fo whether we refpedl his 
 grand-father duke George of Clarence, or his 
 great grand father duke Richardof York , the 
 faide right in this refpecft difccnded to him,and 
 fecondly for that he was a degree neerer to the 
 faid dukes his anceftors , then was at that 
 tyme his neece Catherine, which right of nee- 
 reft propinquitie^fay thefc men , \s made apod 
 & lawful by al the reafons, examples, prendcts, 
 and authorities alleaged before in the fourth 
 chapter of this conference, in fauourofvncles 
 before their nephewes, and it fhal not neede 
 that we fpcake any thing more of rhar matter 
 inthisplace, but only to remit your remem- 
 brance to that which herein hath bin faid be- 
 fore. 
 
 Fourthly 
 
uthecro^m. T4rt Caf. VII. 147 
 
 Fourthly they proue thcfarac in fauour of 
 Syr Geffrey, for that ihc lady Cathcrin was a 
 woman, and Syr Geffrey a manjVvhofepriui- 
 legeisfogreatinamacterofrucceflion (as alfci 
 hath bin touched before) that albeit they had 
 bin in equal degree, and that Syr Greffrey were 
 not a degree before her as he vvas,y(<f teing nei- 
 ther of the nor their fathers were cucr in poi- 
 feflio of the thing pretended, Sir Geffrey f hould 
 be preferred ^ as hath bin f hewed before by 
 (bme prefidents, and f halbc fecne afterward in 
 the ca(c of Portugal^wherin the king of Spainc 
 that now is vvas preferred to thecrownc, for 
 that refped only that his competitors were 
 women, and inequaldegrec of difccnt vviih 
 himjaijdhea man. And the very hke allega- 
 tion of propinquiiie, I haue hard produced for 
 the lady Wenefred wife of Syr Thomas Bar- 
 ringtonfif fhe be yet a-liuej to wir, that'f he is 
 before the earle of Huntington and his brethrc, 
 by this reafon of propinquiiie in bloode,for 
 that fhe is one degree nccrer, to the ftock then 
 they. 
 
 Fiftly and laftely , both thefc and other co- ^^'^^^^ 
 petitors do alleageagainft the earle of Huting-gjon?^ 
 ton as an important and fufficient barr againft 
 his pretence^the quahtie of his rcligion,vvhich 
 is (as they fay ^ihat he hath bin eucr knowne to 
 fauour thofe which commonly in Ingland arc 
 called FuritaneSy and not fauoured by the ftarc, 
 butyetthisfloppeis alleaged diuerfly by com- 
 petitors of diuersrehgions; for that fuchasare 
 
 fbliowcis 
 
1 4^ A Conference touching fuccefton 
 followers and fauoures of the forme of leligiort 
 receaued and defended by piiblique authoritie 
 of Ingland at this daye, whom for diirinflioil 
 fake^menarevvoiicro call by the name of 
 derate proteJlants,xhcCc (I faye)do vrge this exclii- 
 (ion againft the earle of Huntington, not vppo 
 anycertainelawotftatute, extant againft :he 
 QimCyhin (Zqno & bonOy as men are wont to 
 fay,and by reafon of ftate, f hewing infinite in- 
 conueniences harts damages and dangers, that 
 muft needesenfew, not only to the fkite pre- 
 fent of religion in Inglad,but alfo to the whole 
 realms arid body politike,iffuch a man fhould 
 be admitted to gouerne.And thisconfideration 
 offtate in theiropinion is a more forceable ar- 
 gument for excluding fuch a man,then any fta- 
 riite or particuler law againft him could be, for 
 that this comprehendeth the very intention^ 
 meaning,and drift of al lawes and lawmakers 
 ofour realme^whofe intcfions muft needes be 
 prefumed to haue bin in al tymes , to haue ex- 
 cluded fo great and manifeft incouenicnces, & 
 thus fay they. 
 
 But now, thofc that are of the Roman reli- 
 gion, and contrary both to puritan and protc- 
 teftant do vrge a great deale further this argu- 
 ment,againft the earlc,and do alleage many la- 
 wes, ordinances, decrees, and ftatutcs both of 
 the Canon and imperial lawes, asalfo out of 
 the old lawes of Ingland, which in their opi- 
 iiion,do debarr al that arc not of their religion^ 
 andconfequentlyi they would hereby exclude 
 
loth the one and the oiher of thcfe pretendets. 
 And in fine they do conclude, that fcing thcic 
 vvanteth not alfofomc of their owne religion 
 (called by them the Cathohquc) in the houfe 
 of Clarence, they haue fo much the kfle diffi* 
 culrie to exclude the earlcof Huntingtons per- 
 ion for his religion, if one of that houfe were 
 to be adrnitted of nccefljiie. 
 
 And this is Ibmuchas feemeth needful to 
 be fpoken at this tyme and in this place^<5f this 
 houfe of Clarcce, and of the pretenders thero£ 
 It reftcth then that I treate (bmcthing alfo of ^1,^^ 
 the houfe of Britanie and France ^ which two houfeof 
 houfes are ioyned al in one/or fo rouchas may ^"""^^ 
 apperteyne to any inheritance or pretence to 
 Ingland,orvntoany parcel or particuler ftatc 
 therof, at home or abroade^that may follow the 
 fucceffion or right ofwomen,vvhich the king- 
 dome of Fracc in it ftlf doth not, as is knowne^ 
 j andconfequently a woman may be heire to 
 
 i the one without the other, that is to fay, fhe 
 
 I maye be heyre to fome particuler ftates of 
 j France inheritable by women, though not to 
 
 ii the crowne it felfe,and fo do pretende to be the 
 ! two daughters of Frace,that were fillers to the 
 1 late king Hery the third,which daughters were 
 ' marriedjthe one to the king of Spaine that now 
 \ is, by whom he had iflue, the Infanta of fpayne 
 i yetvnmarried,andheryonger fitter married to 
 , ihedukcof Sauoy , and the other to wit the 
 I yonger daughter of the king of France, was 
 I married to the duke of Loraine^ yet liuing, by 
 
 j whom 
 
J JO A Conference toucbing juccepm 
 whom f he had the prince of Louync, & o:hct 
 children that liue ac this day. 
 
 This then being foxleere asitis , firft, that 
 according to the common courfe of fucceflion 
 Tht^ in Ingland^dnd other countries, and according 
 ^outfe of to the coiirfc of all common law, the Infanta of 
 IS^jnihc'* Spaine, fhould inherite the whole kingdomc 
 crowned of France, andal other ftates thcrunto belon- 
 «f fticc. ging,fhe being the daughter arid heyre of the 
 cideft daughter of king Henry the fecond king 
 ofFrance^whofeifruemaleofthedireiSl: line,is 
 ^ V vholy now ended,but yet for that the French, 
 do pretend their law Salik to exclude women, 
 ^which wc Inglifh hauc euer denied to be 
 good vntil now) hereby commeth it to pade^ 
 that the king of Nauarr pretendeth to efner, & 
 to be preferred before the faid Infanta or her 
 lifterschildien, though male, by a collateral 
 iine.Butyether fauourers fay, I meahethofeof 
 the Infanta^ that from the dukedomes of Bri- 
 tanie,Aquitaine,and the hke, that came to the 
 crowric of France by women, and are inherita- 
 ble by womc, fhecannotbein right debarred^ 
 as ncyther from any fucceffion or pretence in 
 Inglandjifeitherby the blood royal of France^ , 
 Britanie, Aquitaihe or of Ingland it felfe,it may 
 bcproued that f he hath any interefl: theruntOj 
 as her (aid fauourers do affirmc that fhc hath, 
 rirftpre. by thcfe rcafo ns following, 
 fence of Firft, for that fhe is of the ancient blood 
 royal of Ingland, cu the conqueft, by 
 
 gland, the elder daughter of William the conqueror 
 
 married 
 
tothecYo%ne. Part z. Cap. VII. Tft 
 
 married to Allaync Fergant dufce of Br/canie, as 
 hath bin f hewed before iiitk« ^ond chapter, 
 and other places of this conference, and of this t* 
 poinretheyinferr two or three confequenccs, 
 Firft that when the fonnes of the Conqueror 
 were dead without idiie or made vncapable of 
 the crowne (as it was ptefumed at lead wife of 
 king Henry the firft, laft fonne of the Conquc- 
 ror,thafhe loft his right for the violence vfed 
 to his elder brother Robert, and vnto William 
 the faid Roberts (bnne & heyre) then fay thefc 
 men , ought the faid duchelle of Britanie to 
 haue entred as eldeft fitter. And fecondly they 
 faye that when duke Robert that both by right 
 of birth and by exprefle agrement with Wil-f^ wta*" 
 liamRufus, and with the Rcalmcof Ingland,GuUci, 
 fhouldhaue fucceded next after the faid Ru^^"^' 
 fus,cametodyein prifon, the (aid lady Con- 
 ftance f hould haue fucceded him, for that his 
 brother Henry being culpable of his death, 
 could not in right be his heyre. And thirdly 
 they fay thatttleaft wife after the death of the 
 faid king Henry the fiift, fhe and her fonne £ 
 meane lady Conftance and Conan duke of Bii- 
 tanie,fhould haueentred before kingStephen, 
 who was borne of Adela the yonger daughter, 
 of William Conqueror. 
 
 Secondly they do alleage,that the Infanta of Second 
 Spayne defcedethalfo lineally from l^jdy Elea-^f^he^- 
 lior eldeft daughterofkrng Henry the fecond,fantaox 
 married to king Alonfo the nynthe of that^^*^^^* 
 name king of Caftile^Tvhofe eldcft daughter 8c 
 
 Cc hs^yxe^ 
 
iji A Conference mchtvg [uccefton 
 heyrc i^med Blanch (for that their only fonne 
 Henry dyed wiil'''^"* married with the 
 
 piince i-ewis the eight of France,vvho was fa- 
 ther by her to king S. Lewis of France^ and fo 
 harh continued the lyne of France vnto this 
 day, &ioyned the fame afterward to ihehowfe 
 of Britanie ^ as hath bin declared : fo as the In- 
 fanta comeih to be heyre general of both thofe 
 houfes.that is^as wel of Biitanie as cf France^as 
 hath bin fhev\ed,And now by this herdifcent, 
 Pretence from Queene Eleanor daughter of kingHenry 
 I^c.^"** tbefecond,herfauorersdo founde diuers pre- 
 tencesand titles^not only to thcftates of Aqui- 
 taincjihat came to her father by a woman, but 
 alfoto Ingland* in manner fol!owing:firft for 
 Aquitaine,they laye that it came to king Henry 
 the Iccod by his wife Eleanor daughter of Wil- 
 liam duke of Aquiraine, as before in rhefecod 
 chapter at large hath bin declared, and for that 
 the moft part therof was loll afterward to the 
 frenchinking lohns tyme, that was fourth 
 fonne to the aforefaid king Hcry^it v vas agreed 
 beiweenethe faidking lohn and the French 
 Polydor king Phillip, that al the ftates of Aquitaineal- 
 redy loft to the french, fhould be siuen in 
 Garibin dcwty With the laiQ Blanch to be married to 
 fons^^ hwys the eight then prince of France, and fo 
 they were, and moreouer they do alleage, that 
 not long after this, the fame ftates vvuh ihere-i 
 fidue that remayned in king lohns handes, 
 were al adiudgcd to be forfcyted,byth e parla- 
 ment of Paris/or the death of duke Arthur, & 
 
 confe- 
 
to the crd%ne. Van i. Cap. V 1. i 
 confequccly did fal alfo vppon this lady Blach, 
 as nexrheyre capable of luch fucc^^ffion vnto 
 king lohn, for that yet the laid lohn had no 
 fonneatal, and foithis caufeand forrhatlhc 
 {aid ftatcs are inheritable by women, and came 
 by women, as hath bin often faid , thefe men 
 affirme that at this day they do by iocceffioti 
 appartayne vnto the faid lady Infanta c'f 
 Spayne,^ndDOt to thecrowneof Fra!)ce. 
 
 To thefncccffion cflngland alfo^they irjake^'-^t^ences 
 pretence by vv?y of the faid lady Blanch mzx-^^^^l^^J^^ 
 ried into France, and that in diuers manners. Blanch. 
 Firft for that king lohn of Inglacd by the mur- 
 therofdukc Arthur of Britanie his nephew^ 
 (which diueis authors do affirme as Stow alfo^f^^^^^ 
 Witnefleth that it was done by king Johns ^is, 
 ownehandes) he forfeited al his ftates , if his 
 right to them had bni neuer fo gopd, and for 
 that this murther happened in the fifcyeare of 
 his reigne, andfoure yeaies before his fonne 
 Henry was borne , none was fo neere to uic- 
 ceedc at that ty mc*,as was this lady Blanch mar- 
 ried into france^for that f he was daughter and 
 heytevnto king lohns elder fifter Eleanor , or 
 rather the ftid Eleanor herftlfe Quecne of 
 Spay ne, f hould haue fucceded, for that f he yet 
 liued, arid dyed not (as appeareih by Stephen 
 Garribay chronicler of Spayne) vnril thtr yeare Q?.r.b li. 
 ofChrill: 1114. which was not vnril the 15.^2. ^ 
 yeare of the reigne of king lohn, and one yeare 
 only b:fore hedved , fo as he hauing yet no if- 
 fue,when this marcher was committed, and 
 Cc z Icefing 
 
1 J 4 A Conference teucJAvg fuccefton 
 Icefing by this forfeit, al right he had in the 
 kingdomc of Ingland it folioweth , that the 
 fame fhouldhauc gone to bisfaidfifter, & by 
 her to this lady Blanch herheyrc, and eldeft 
 daughter,niarried intofrance as hath bin faide, 
 which forfeit alfo of king lohn, thefe men do 
 confirmeby hisdepriuation by the Pope that 
 foonc after enfewed^as alfo by an other depri- 
 uationmade by theBarrons of his realme, as 
 after f halbe touched. 
 3- Further more they faye that when Arthur 
 byTnhurdukeofBritanie (whom to this efFed they do 
 duke of hold to haue bin the only true hey re at that 
 Britanic lyjj^gfQ^hg kingdome of Ingland) was in pri- 
 foninthecaftle of Roan, fufpetfting that he 
 f houidbe murthred by his faid vncle K. lohn, 
 he nominated this lady Blanch his co(cn get- 
 inanie,to be his heyre^perfuading himfelfe that 
 1 he by the helpe of her hufband prince Lewis 
 of France, and her father the king of fpaine^ 
 f hould be better able to defend and recouer his 
 or her right, to the crownc of Ingland thea 
 Eleanor his ownefifter, f hould be, who was 
 alfo in the handesofhis faid vncle: for that he 
 fuppofed that f he alfo fhould be made away by 
 himfhortlyafter,asindeedethefrench cnro- 
 1.3.cap.7inicleaffirmeth that fhe was: and howfoeuer 
 bifi.Fian.ihis matter of duke Arthurs teftament were; 
 yetcertaine it is, that when he and his fifter 
 were put to death, the next in kynne, that 
 could fucceede them in their right to Ingland, 
 was this lady Blanch, and her mother Qjaeene 
 
 Elenor, 
 
to the trdr^ne. Tart i. Cap. VII. ijf 
 Elenor,that was fifter to Arthuis father, GeC 
 freydukeofBritanie. For that kinglohn their 
 vnclc was prefumed by al men to be vncapable 
 ofthcir inheritance, by his putting of them to 
 death, and child yet he had none,and this is the 
 fecond pointe that thefe men do deduce for the 
 lady Infanta of Spayne, by the title of Queene 
 Eleanor and her daughter Blanch, to whom the 
 Infanta is next heyre. 
 
 Aihirdintereftalfothe fame men do deriueEleftioof 
 to the Infanta, by the actual depofition of king Jf^^^'g^^^ 
 John by the Barons and Itatcs ofhisRealme in be King 
 the i6.yearcof hisreigne, and by theeledion^^^S^^^ 
 and adual admiflion of Lewis prince of Frace, 
 husband of the forefaid ladv Blanch, w^hom 
 r hey chofe with one confenr, and admitted and 
 fwore him fealtic and obedience in London, 
 for him and for his hey res and pofteritie^ in the 
 ycarc i z 1 7 . and gaue him poiTcffion of the faid voljdor. 
 citie and Tower of London, and of many other li s»hift. 
 cheefe places of the realme, &c albeit afterward HoiUngSc 
 the moft parte of the realme chainged their stow in 
 myndesagayne, vppon the fuddaine death ofn\s! 
 the faid king lohn, and chofe and admitted his 
 yongfonneHeniy the thirdj a child of nyne 
 yearesold, yetdo thefauourers ofthe Infanta 
 fay^that their remayneth to her as heyrc vnto 
 the faid Lewis, vntil this day , that intercft 
 which by this eledion oth and admiflion off^capVr.* 
 the realme, remained vnto this prince Lewis, Girard il 
 which thefe m,en affirme to be the very likcBaudi?^ 
 cafe* as was that of Hujjo Capetus in France, au 891. 
 
 ^ , chron. 
 
1^6 A Conference touching fuccefton 
 who came ro be king efpecially , vppon a ccr- 
 taync title that oneof his anccrtors named Odo 
 carle of Parris^had, by being once elc(ftcd king 
 cf Fiance,and admitted and Ivvorne, though af- 
 lei vvard he were depofed agayne , and yong 
 Charles furnamed the limple was admitted in 
 his place, as Henry the third was jn England 
 after the election of th^s Lewis, Butyet as the 
 other continued euer his right and claymevn- 
 til it w'as rcftorc'd to Hugo Capetus one of his 
 race, io (ay thefcmen^may this Infanta cotinew 
 and renew now the demaund of this right of 
 king Lewis her anceftcr, for that titles and in- 
 tertftes to kingdomes, once rightly gotten, do 
 ijeuer dye^bu t remai ne euer for the pofterity to 
 effbdluate when chey can, & thus much of this 
 matter. 
 
 But after this againe, thefe mendo fhew, 
 byaiiTe^^ Spayne , dothdif- 
 
 from He- cende alfo from Henry the third^fonneof king 
 iLid^ lohnjby the dukes of Biitanie, as before in the 
 fec5dcLipterhath bin declared, and in the ar- 
 bor and genealogie following in the end of this 
 conferejicel halbe fcene, for that kmg Henry 
 bcfideshis two fonnes Edward and Edmond, 
 which were the beginners of the two houfes of 
 Yorkeand Lancafter, had alfo a daughter na- 
 med Lady Beatrix^ ma tried to lohn the fecond 
 of that namedukeof Biitanie, and by him fhe 
 had Arthur the fecond, and fo Imcally from 
 him hauedefcended the princes of that houfe, 
 vntiltheirc vnion with the crowne of France, 
 
 and 
 
tothecro^ne. Tart 1. Cap. VII. i;/ 
 
 and from thence vnto this lady Infanta of 
 Spayne,thacnovv is, who tiketh herfelfe foe 
 proper hey re of the faid houfe of Britanie, and 
 heyre general of France, as hath bin faid. 
 
 By th/s third coniundtion then, of the houfe 
 of Britanie with the blood royal of Ingland, 
 the frendes of the Infmta do argue in this 
 manner, that feing fhedifccndethof the (iftec 
 of thcfe two brothers which were the heades 
 of the two oppofire hoiifes of Lancafter and 
 Yorke,and confidering that each of thefe hou- 
 fes hath oftentymes bin attainted , & excluded 
 from the fuccellion by fondry a6les of parla^ 
 ment, and at this prefent are oppofire, and ac 
 contention among themfelues : why may not 
 this right of both houfes (fay thefe men) by 
 way of compofition peace and comprimife, at ^^f^'^^^ 
 leaft, bepalfedouer to the iflfue of their fifterpofjon. 
 which refteth in the Infanta. 
 
 Agayne they faye that al thefe three bran- 
 ches of the hues of IngHfh kings, to wit by the 
 lady Conftance daughter of king Wilham Con- 
 queror, by the ladyElenor daughter of king 
 Heniy the fecond , and by the lady Beatrix 
 daughter of king Henry the third, it is euidet, 
 that this lady the infanta of Spaine , is of the 
 true and aiiqient blood royal of Ingland , and 
 that diuers wayes fhe may hauc clayme to the 
 fame, which being graunced, they inferr, that 
 feing matters are fodoubtful at this day, about 
 the next lawful fuccedion , and that diuers of 
 thepretendores are excluded , fomefor baftar- 
 
 Cc 4 die. 
 
1 ; S A Conference touching f me f ion 
 die,fome other for religion, fome for vnaptnes 
 to gouerne,and fome for other caufes, & (eing 
 the common Wcahh hathfuch authoritie to 
 difpofein this affaire, as before the Ciuil la- 
 wyer hath declared, why may there not confi- 
 deration be had among other pretenders ,of ch is 
 noble princeflealfo (faie the{e men) efpecially 
 feingfheis vnmarriedand may therbycomo- 
 date many matters,and falue many breaches,& 
 fatisfie many hopes, and glue contentment to 
 many defires,as the world knoweth. 
 obicftios And this is in effed as much as I haue hard 
 ^s^^^^^^ alleaged hitherto infauour of the Infanta of 
 tas pre- Spayne,but againft this pretence,others do pro- 
 texicc. duce diners arguments and obie^tions , as firft 
 ofal, that thefe her clay mes be very old and 
 vvorne our, and are but collateral by fifters.Se- 
 condly that f he is a ftranger, and allien borne. 
 Thirdly that her rehgion is cotrary to the ftate. 
 vnto al w hich obiedions, the fauourers afore- 
 faiddo make their anfweres, and to the firft 
 they fay,ihat antiquity hurteth not the good- 
 jiesof atitlcjvvhenoccafion isoffred toaduace 
 the fame, efpecially in titles apperteyning to 
 kingdomes,which commonly are neuer prefu- 
 med to dye, as hath bin faid, and nullum tentpus 
 cccmitRegifdithomhw. And as for collate- 
 ral lines,ihey fay, that they may lawfully be ad- 
 mitted to enter when the dired lyncs do ey ther 
 fayleoraretobe excluded, for other iuft rc- 
 fpcds,asinourcafe they hold that it happe- 
 Beth. And as for the fccond pointc of forraine 
 
 birth 
 
tothecroTi^ne. Part z. Cap. VI 1 1, ijp 
 
 birth they faye there hath bin fufficient anfvvc- 
 red ^before in treating of the houfc of Scotland, 
 that in rigor it is no barr , by intention of any 
 Inglifh law, yet whether in reafo of ftate & po- 
 litique gouertnent, it may be a iuft impedimet 
 or no , it Thai after be handled roore al large 
 when we come to treat of the houfe of Por- 
 tugal. To the lall pointe of religion they an- 
 fwer that this impediment is not vniucrfal^nor 
 admitted in the judgment of al men, but only 
 of thofe Inglifh that be of different religion 
 fiom her. But to fome others ("and thofe many 
 as thefe men do vveene)her religion v vil rather 
 beamotiueto fauour her title then to hinder 
 thefame, fothaton this ground no certaintie 
 can be buylded,and this is as much as I haue to 
 fay at this tymc of ihcfe two families of Cla- 
 irenceand Britank* 
 
 Cc s OF THE 
 
j6o a Cmference touching fuccefion 
 
 OF THE HO VSE OF 
 
 PORTVGAL WHICH C O N- 
 
 TEYNETH THE CLAYMES AS-VVEL OF 
 
 the king and prince of Spajne to the fuccepon 
 ojlngUnd, m alfo of the du^^es of?amii 
 and Braganfa by the houfe of 
 Lancajler. 
 
 Cap. VIII. 
 
 IT hath bin ofcentymesTpoken before vp- 
 pon occafions ofFced, that the princes of the 
 houfe of Portugal arthisdayjdoperfuadethe- 
 princes of felues that the Only remaynder of the houfe of 
 panugai Lancaftcr relteth among them, as the only true 
 h^afcof heyresof the lady Blanch dacheifcand heyreoF 
 Licaaec. Lancafter, & firfl: wife of lohn of Gaunt, which 
 pointeof rhefe princes defcencs from ihefaij 
 ducheife of Lancafter , though it be declared 
 fafficiently before in the third and fourth chap- 
 lersryetwil I briefly here alfo fet downe and 
 repeat agaync the reafons therof, which arc 
 ihefe that follow. 
 
 lohn of Gaunt was duke of Lancafter by the 
 right ofhisfirft wife lady Blanch, and had by 
 her only one fonne, as alfo one daughter, of 
 whom vveneedeheeretofpeake, for that the 
 other hath left no iflue now lining. The fonne 
 was king Henry the fourth , who had ifTue 
 king Henry the fife, and he agayne Henry the 
 fixtjin whom was extinguifhcd al the fuccef- 
 Cion of this fonne Henry, 
 
 . The 
 
tothecroH^ne. Part i. Cap. VI IL iSi 
 The daughter of lohn of Gaunt by l^idyjj|^j^^« 
 Blanch Was called PhiHip, who was married phiiiip 
 to lohn the firft king of chat name of Portugal, ^"p^j^*^. 
 who had ilTue by him king Edward^and he gal, 
 agayne had idue king Alfonlus the fift king of 
 Poitugal , and he and his offpringe had ifluc 
 agaync the one after the other vntil our tymes, 
 and fo by this marriage of lady Phillip, to their 
 firft king lohn^ thefe princes ofthehoufe of 
 Portugal thatliueat thisday^dopretende that 
 the inheritance of Lancafter is only in them, by 
 this lady Phillip, for that the fucceffion of her 
 cider brother king Henry the fourth, is expi- 
 red long ago. This in effect is their pretence, 
 batnow wewilpalleon to fee what others 
 fay,that do pretend alfo to be of the houfe of 
 Lancafter by a latter marriage. 
 
 lohn of Gaunt after the death of his fiiftifTucof 
 wife lady Blanchjdyd raarryeagaine the lady^^^^nof 
 Conftance daughter of king Peter furnamed his"ater^ 
 the cruel of Caftile^and had by her one daugh- vviues, 
 tcronly named Catherin , whom he married 
 afterward back to Caftile againe^giuing her to 
 wife, to king Henry the third of that name, by 
 whom f he had iffue king lohn, and he others, 
 fo as Imtally king Philippe king of Spayne 
 isdefceded from her,vvhich king Phillip being 
 at this day king alfo of Portugal, and the cheife 
 titlerofthat houfe vnto Ingiand, he ioyneth^j.^^f^j'^j^ 
 the inheritance of both the two daughters ofcheend 
 lohn ofGaunt^in one, & fo wefhalnot necde^^Ji^^* 
 to talk of thefe two daughters hearafter di- 
 
 ftindly. 
 
i6t A Conference touching fiiccefton 
 ftiniflly, but only as of one, fcingthat both 
 iheir difcents do end in this one man. 
 Thepomt The only difficultic and didention Is then, 
 " about the ifTue of the thitd marriage, which 
 was of lohn of Gaunt with lady Catherin 
 Swinford,vvhom he firfl: kept as a Concubine, 
 in the tyme of his (econd wife lady Conftance, 
 as before hath bin fhewed in the third chapter, 
 and begat of her fower children, and after that 
 his wife lady Conftance was dead, he tooke her 
 to wife for the louehe bare to his children, ^ 
 litle before his death, and caufed the (aid chil- 
 dren to be legitimated by aLuhority of parla- 
 meat, and for that none of thefe fower chil- 
 dren of his, haueleftiirue, but only one, that 
 was lohn earle of Somerfet , we fhal fpcake 
 only of him ommitting al the reft, 
 iffaeof This lohn then earle of Somerfet had iflue 
 Catherin Other Iohn,which was made duke of Somer* 
 swn- fet by king Henry the fixr , who with his 
 * three fonnes,vvereflayne by the princes of the 
 houfe of Yorke^in the quarrel of Lmcafter, & 
 fo left only one daughter named Margaret,who 
 by hcrhusbad Edmond Tydder,earleofRich- 
 ' mond^wasCountelTe of Richmond, &had by 
 him a fonne named Henry earle of Richmond, 
 that was after king, by the name ofking Henry 
 thefeuenth, and from him al hisdifcendents 
 both of the houfe of Scotland and SufFoike, do 
 pretend alfo to be of the houfe of Lancafter, 
 which yet can be nootherwife then now hath 
 bin dcclared^to wit, not from Blanch firft wife 
 
tothecYol^ne. Tart i. Cap. VIII. 1^5 
 
 & hcyre of the duchy of Lancaftce, but fro Ca- 
 thcrin Swinford his third wife, vvherinrifeth 
 the queftion whether thofc men,! meane king The prln- 
 Henry the reueth,& his difcendents, may pro. ^fJJ^*^"*' 
 perhe be faid to be of the true houfc of Lanca- 
 fter, or no, whcrunto fome do anfwere v vith a Anfyvti* 
 diftindio^to wir, that to the duchy of Lacafter, 
 wherof the firft wife lady Blach was hcirejthefe 
 ofthethiVd marriage cannot be heyres, but 
 only the remaynder of the iflue of the faid lady 
 Blanch that rcfteth in the princes of the ^^^^"^ P^^.j^.^^l- 
 of Portngal.But yetto the title of the crowne Lica^crt 
 of Inglande, which came by lohnofGauthim- 
 felfe,in that he was third fonne of K.Edward 
 the third , and eldelt of al his children that li- 
 ned when the faid king Edward dyed (by 
 which is pretended alio that he fhould haue 
 fucceded immediatly after him before king Ri- 
 chard the fcc6d,as before in the fourth chapter 
 Jiath bin declared) to this right (1(2l\q)&c to this^^^^^ 
 intereft of the crowne,which came by lohn of 
 Gaunt himrelfe,& not by lady Blach,orby any 
 other of his wiues, the difcendents of king 
 Henry the feuenthdo fay that they may and 
 ought to fuccede^for that lohn carle of Somer- 
 feteldcft fonnc of lohn of Gaunt by lady Ca- 
 therin Swinford, though he were begotten out 
 of matrimony, yet being afterward madelegi- An «am 
 timate, he was toinhcrite this right ^f lohn^^^,^^^^ 
 of Gaunt his father , before the lady Phil- the fi.nh 
 lip his fifter , for that fo we fee that king ^£^ce of^ 
 Edward the fixt, though yongcr, and butspaixic? 
 
 halfc 
 
1 ^4 ^ Conference touching fuccepon 
 halfe brother vnto the lady Mary and Ehza- 
 beth his fiftersjet he inherited ihecrovvne be- 
 fore them, and in hke manner is loid Phillippc 
 prince of Spaine at this daye to inherite al the 
 ftates of that crowne before his two fiftersjthat 
 be elder then he, & fo hkewife faye thefc men, 
 ought lohn ofSomerfetto haue donne before 
 Phillippe his eideft fitter, ifhehadbin ahue at 
 that ty me 5 when king Henry the fixt was put 
 downeanddyedjand confequently his pofteri- 
 ty^vvhich are the difcendents of king Henry 
 ihefeuenth, ought to enioye the fame before 
 the princes of Portugal, that are the dilcedents 
 of Lady Phillippe his lifter, thus fay the ifliie of 
 king Henry thefeuenth. 
 
 But to this the princes of the houfe of Por- 
 o/th^^ tugal do reply, and fay, firft, that by this it is 
 bou<'e of euident at leaft,that the dukedome of Lancafter 
 vvherofrhe lady Blanch was the only hey re, 
 muft needs appertcyne to them alone^and this 
 without al doubt or controuerfie/or that thcv 
 only remaine of her ilTac afrcr exting uif hing of 
 thepofterity of her elder brother K.Henry the 
 fourth,vvhich vvasextinguifhed by the death 
 The duke of king Henry thefixt, andof hisonly fonne 
 prince Edward, and for this they make noque- 
 ftionorcontrouerfie, alFuring themielues that 
 The legi- al lavv, right and equity ^is on their fide. 
 ofc:athc Secondly touching the fucceflion and right 
 tinSvvin-tothckingdome^they faye, rhat'Iohn earle of 
 ^•^nP-en Somctfct being borne oi\t of Wedlock, and in 
 nothw- adultery,for thai his father had an other wife 
 ^ ' aliuc 
 
nthecro^ne. Vm 2. Cap. VIII. it?/ 
 aliucvvhen he begatthim, and hcconiiriDirig 
 a baftard fo many ycaics, could noi be made le- 
 gitimate afterward by parlament rothat cfic<3: 
 of fucceflion 10 the crowne , and ro dcpntiC 
 Quccne Phillip of Portugal, and htrchi-dixn 
 borne before the others legitimation, fic their 
 right and fucceflion, without their conUras, 
 for that lohn king of Portugal , did mairy the 
 faid lady FhiHip, with condition to enioy al 
 prerogatiues that at that day were due %r 10 
 her,and that at the tyme when lohn of Gaunt 
 did marry the (aid lady Catherine Svvinford,& 
 made her children legitimate by aft of parla- 
 ment('vvhich vvasin iheyearecf Chrift 135}^. 
 and 1 3 07. )thc (aid lady Phill ip Queene cf Por- I'^'l^ 
 tugaljhad now two Tonnes lining, named donch^i^ia. 
 Alon(o,and don Edwardo, which were b^rne 
 in theyeares 1390* and 1391. that is fixyeares ^^^p^^^ 
 before the legitimation of lohn earle cf So- tygau.js 
 metfet, and his brethren , and iheiby had ins^^^ 
 I acquifituWy as the law faith , which right once 
 j acquired and gotten, could not be talven away 
 by any pofterior adt of parlament afterward, 
 I withoutconffnt ofthe parties intent (led , for 
 which they do allesge^diucrs places of the ca- 
 nonlaw, which for that they hold not inln- 
 gland,ldo not cite, but one exan pie dicy put 
 tofhewthe inconuenience of the thirg (if ir^rotc t%h 
 fhould beothervvife determined then thiy af-<x2rrpic 
 firm.ey which is , that ifking Henry the eight vi^Kci^ 
 that had a baftaid fonne, by the lady Elizabeth"" *• 
 Blunt,vvhom he named Henry fit2roy,& made 
 
 him 
 
J 66 A Conference touching fuccepon 
 him both earle of Notingham , and duke of 
 Richmond and Somerfet in the 1 8* yeare of his 
 rcigne,at what cyme the faid king had a law- 
 ful daughter a liue, named theprinccfle Mary 
 by QuceneCatherinof Spaynej if (I fay) the 
 king (liould haue ofFred lo make this fonne le- 
 gitimate by parlament ^ with intent to haue 
 himfaccccdcafterhim,in thecrowne, to the 
 preiudice and open iniury of the faid lawful 
 daughter, thefc men do fay that he could not 
 hauedoneit,andifhefhould haue done it by 
 violence, it would nothauehcld, and much 
 leilc could lohn of Gaunt do the Uke, being no 
 king.Nor was the adt of parlament fufficiet for 
 this potnte, it being a matter that depended 
 cfpecially (fay thelemen)ofthefpiritual court, 
 and of the Canon law which law alloweth this 
 legitimation no further, but only as a difpenfa- 
 tion ,and this fo farforth only as it doth not pre- 
 judice the right of any other. 
 
 Nether helpethit any thing in this matter, 
 the marriage of lohn of Gaunt with lady Ga- 
 thering for to make better this legitimation, 
 for that as hath bin faid, their children were 
 jl^p^^^^'^^ not only natuuUs but Spufij that is to faye be- 
 not ih^ gotten inphync aduoutrie and not in fimplc 
 tiln^^*' fornication only,for that the one partiehad a 
 wifea liue,and conlequently the priuelege that 
 ihelawgiueth to the fubfcquent marriage cf 
 the parties for legitimating (uch children, as 
 are borne in fimple fornication, that is to fay 
 between^ parties that were fingle and noneof 
 
 them 
 
them married, can no: take place here, Co a* 
 thclc men conclude, thatalbeit this legitima- 
 tion of parlamenr, might feme rhem to other 
 purpofcsyer not to depriuc the princes of Por- 
 tugal of their prerogatiue to fuccede in iheir 
 mothers lighr, which f he had when f he vva^ 
 married ro their father. 
 
 And tljis they aiFirme to haue bin law and 
 right at that lymCjifthe faid Queene Phillip & 
 carle lohn had bin aliue together^vvhen Henry 
 the fixt and his fonne was put to death,& that 
 this qneftio had bin then moued at thedeathe 
 of king Henry the fixt> whether of the tW"o, to 
 wit either the faid Queene Phillip or her yon- 
 ger brother lohnearle of Somerfet by the fa-ft^^^bcl 
 thers fide only^f hould haue fucceded in the in- twcene 
 herirance of king Henry the fixt , in vvhichj^p^^n^^' 
 cafethele menprefume for certaine, that theiohnof 
 faid Queene Phillippe legitimatly borne, and^"""""^^ 
 not lohn made legitimate by parlamer, fhould 
 haue fucceded, for that by common courfe of 
 law, the children legitimated by fauour, albeit 
 their legitimation were good and lawful (as 
 thisofthefe children is denyedto be) yet can 
 they neuer be made equal , and muchlelTc be 
 preferred before the lawful and legitimate by 
 I byrche* 
 
 But now fay thefe men, the cafe ftandeth at 
 fthisprefent fomewhat otherwife^and more fot 
 theaduantage of Queene Phillippe, and her 
 offpring, for when king Henry the fixt, & his 
 ifonne were excinguifhed, and Edward duke of 
 
 Dd Yorke 
 
i68 A Conference touching fuccef ton 
 Yoike ihruft hym felfe in to the crpwneCwhich 
 was about the yeare of Chrift 1471) the fore- 
 faid two princes, lady Phillip and earle lohn, 
 were both dead^as alio their childien^and only 
 their nephewes were aliue^that is to faye^ their 
 liucd in Portugal king Alfonfiis the fife of 
 that name, fonne to king Edward , which 
 Edw^ard was child to Queene PhilHp, and the 
 death of king Henry the fixr oflngland hap- 
 pened in the 3 S.yeare of the reigne of the faid 
 king Alfonfus: and in Inglad liued at the lame 
 tymejlady Margaret Countefle of Richmond, 
 mother ofking Henry the feuenthe andneece 
 oftheforefaidlohn earle of Somerfet, to wit 
 the daughter of his ibnne duke lohn of So- 
 merfet ^ fo as thefe two competitors of the 
 houfe of Lancafter,that is to fay, king Alfonfus 
 and lady Margaret^ were in equal degree from 
 lohn of Gaunt, as alfofrom king Henry the 
 fixt, fauing that king Alfonfus was of the 
 vvholeblood^as hath bin faid, and by Queene 
 Phillip that was legitimate, and the countefle 
 of Richmond was butofthe halfe blood, as by 
 lohn earle of Somerfer/hat was a baftard le- 
 gitimated. 
 
 The que- jYlq queftiou then is, which of thefe two 
 tvvecncJfhouldhauefucceded by right, of the houfe of 
 thene- Lancafter,immediatly after the death ofking 
 p ewes. j^^j^j.y ^j^g ^ j^jy \iargaret allea- 
 
 geththat fhc wasdefcended from lohn earle 
 of Somerfet that was a man, and therfore to be 
 preferred,andking Alfonfus alleagcd that he 
 
tothecrd^7je. Van 2. Cap. Vm. iGcf 
 being in equal degree of necrnes of blood with 
 the fame countefl'e (for thrit both were nephe- 
 Wes Jhe was to be preferred before her,for that 
 hewasaman,andof the whole blood, to the 
 lart kings of the houfe of Lancafter, and that 
 f he was a woman andbiuofche halfe blood, 
 fo that three prerogatiues he pretended before 
 her.Firft that hewasaman and fhea woman^ 
 and fecondly that he defcended of the lawful 
 andelderdaughter,andfheofthe yonger bro- 
 ther legitimated , and thirdly that he was of 
 whole blood^and fhebutofhalfe^and for bet- 
 ter fortifying of this proofeof his title, thefe 
 men do alleage a certayne cafe, determyned by 
 the learned of our dayes as they fay, vvherin for 
 rhefirftof thefe three cau fes only, the fucceC' 
 fion to a crowne was adiudged vnto king Phil- 
 lip of Spayne , to wit the fucceflion to the 
 kingdome of Portugal, which cafe was in al 
 refpedls correfpondent tothis of ours: for that 
 Emanuel king of Portugal had three children, 
 for fo much as apperteyneth to this affaire (for 
 afterward I fhal treat more particulerly of his 
 ifTueJ that is to fay, two fonnes and one daugh- 
 ter, in this orderjohn, EHzabeth and Edward, 
 euen as lohn of Gaunt had Hery,lady Philippe,, 
 andlohn. 
 
 Prince lohn of Portugal firft child of king The ^^ft 
 Emanuel,hadilTueanotherIohn, and he had fion" to^ ' 
 Sebaftian in whom the Une of lohn the firft ^oftugaL 
 child was extinguif hed; but lohns fifter Eliza- 
 beth, was married to Charles the Emperor, & 
 Dd 1 hadilTue 
 
379 A Conference mchwg fuccepon 
 had ifTue K. Phillip of Spayne that now liuetli* 
 Edward alio y oger brother to Elizabeth or Ifa- 
 bel had :flue two daiighteis, the one married to 
 the duke of Partna,&' the other tothedcke of 
 Braganfajfoas king Philhp vvas in equal de- 
 gree with thele ladies in relpedt of kingEma- 
 nutljfoithat hcvvas fonne to his eldell daugh- 
 ter, and the two duchedes were daughteis to 
 his yonger (bnne, & vppon this refted the que- 
 ftionyvvhichofthefelhould fuccecde, and it 
 vvas decided that it apperteyneth vnto king 
 PhiIlip,foi that he vvas a man, and his mother 
 vvas the elder fiftcr, though if king Phillips 
 mother and the two duchclTes father I meane 
 lord Edward of Portugal had bin aliue toge- 
 ther, no doubt but that ht: beinge a ma I hould 
 haue borne it away,vvhich thefe men fay, hoi- 
 deth not in our cafe, but is much more to our 
 aduantage, for th.it ii hath bin 1 hewed before, 
 thatifQueene Phiiiippe had bin aliue with 
 cstile lohn of Scnierfet at the death of king 
 Henry the fixt, fhe f hould haue bin prefer- 
 red aslegitimate, by^birth, and therfore much 
 more ought her nephew Icing Alfonfus to haue 
 bin preferred afterward in that he vvas a man, 
 before the neece of the faid earle lohn of 
 Somerfer, that vvas but a woman, thus fare 
 TWcFO'they. 
 
 xeil of'^ And bcfidcs all this , they do adde (as often 
 before I haue mentioned^ that king Alfonfus 
 not^d^f- vvas of the whole blood vnro al the three king 
 V^^JP. Henries of the houfc of Lancafter, & the coun- 
 the;. telle 
 
tothecro^ne. Tart 1. Cap. VIII. 171 
 
 teflTc of Richmond was bar of rhe halFv^ blood; 
 andfor moieftrcngrheningof this argumenr, 
 they do fay funhcr^ that belides th ;t intcreft oc 
 righrro thecrowne, which king Henry the 
 fourth 'chat was the firft king of che houfc of 
 Lancafler) had by his father lohn of Gaunt, ia 
 tha: the faid lohn was third fonne of kin^ 
 Edward t^e third, the (aid king Henry hid di- 
 Dersother inDereftesalfo v\hich came o*^him- 
 felfe only, and not from his faidfither, as were 
 (for example) his being called into the realms 
 by general voyceofal r he people: hjs nghr c^or- 
 tenby armes,s'ppon the euil gonermenc of the 
 former kinf;:theperfonal rcfignarion and deli- 
 uery of thekingdome by lolemne inftrument 
 made vnto him, by king Richard: hiseleciioa 
 alfo byp2rlament,& coronation bvrherealme: 
 and finally the quiet polTeffion of him and his 
 pofteritie^forahnoftthreefcore yeares , with 
 many confirmations of the whole realme, by 
 diners a(flsofparlament,othcs, and other affu- 
 races, as the world knoweth: fo many I mcane^ 
 and Co autetical, as could polCbly be deu ifcd or 
 giaen:andbefidesalthfs, that when king Ri- 
 chard was dead^he was next in degree of pro- 
 pinquitievnto him,ofany manliuing, for that 
 the fonnes of Roger Mortimer , were two de- 
 grees further of then he, as hath bin f hewed 
 before. Al which particulerrightes andintcre- 
 ftes,were peculier to Henry the fourth his per- 
 fon, and were not in his father John ofGaiinr, 
 and therforccanaotpo!ijblyd:fcendfiom hirrr 
 Dd 5 to the 
 
lyt A Conference touching fuccefton 
 to the iffae of lohn earle of Somerfet, but muft 
 palle rather to the ilTue of king Heniics true fi- 
 ftet the Queene Philhppe of Portugal, and this 
 though it be fuppofed.that otherwife it might 
 begiaunted fasfay they it may not) that lohn 
 earie of SoiTierfet and his fucceffors, might 
 fuccede to lohn of Gaut before lady Phillippe, 
 which thinge (fay thefemen) if it fhouldbe 
 graunted, yet cannot he fuccede to king Hen- 
 ry the fourth jfift and hxt, that difcended of 
 BUnch:andthisisin effect al that I haue hard 
 difputed about this pointe, whatlyne is true 
 heyre tothe houfeof Lancafter, to wit, whe- 
 ther chat of lohn earle of Somerfet^ borne of 
 Catherin Swinford ('from whom difcendeth 
 king Henry the feuenth and his pofteritie^ or 
 els that of Queene Philippe of Portugall^borne 
 of lady Blach, from whom are come the/ore- 
 faid Princes of Portugal, 
 
 But now it remay neth to examine fomwhat 
 cc^ vt Pox in this place alfo,vvhat 8c who are ihefe prin- 
 tugaiand ces of the houfc of Portugal , fp often named 
 thcypre- bcforejaud what pietencc of fucceffion^ they 
 r^r^^d ^'^^ euery ofchem haue^ or may haue vnto the 
 crowneof Ingland? for better vndcrftanding 
 wherofjit f halbe needful to explane fomwhat 
 more at large, the forefaid pedegree of king 
 Emanuel of Portugal,who albeit by diuers w u 
 ues he had many children, yetfixonly that he 
 had by one wife,of whom their remayneth hi- 
 thcr-toilFue, are thofe which may apperteyne 
 vnto ourpurpofe to fpeake of, in refped of any 
 
 pretence, 
 
to thecro^ne. Tan i. C a p. V 1 1 !• 17 j 
 pretence , that may be made by them towards 
 Ingladjfuppofingaiwayes (which is moft true) 
 that rhefaid king Emanuel , wasdifcended h- 
 neallyas true and direct heyre from the fore- 
 faidlady PhiUippe, Queene ofPortugal, that 
 was daughter oflohn of Gaunt by his fiift wife 
 lady Blanch, duchefle and heyre of the duke- 
 dome of Lancafter,and fifter to king Henry the 
 fourth firrt king of the houfe of Lancafter,ro as, 
 byherdoth or may pretend the whole pofte- 
 ritic of che (aid king Emanuel,vnto whatfoeuer 
 the faid lady Phillippe might inherite from her 
 father or mother,orfrom her faid brother king 
 of Ingland or his poftcritie. 
 
 The lix children then of long Emanuel were .^^^^ 
 thefe following, and each of them borne as of king 
 hecre they are fet downe, fit ft prince lohn that ^£^pQJ^^^, 
 was king after his father by the name of lohn gai. 
 the third, fecondly'the lady Ifabel married to 
 the emperor Charles the fifc> and mother to 
 king Phillip of Spayne that nowliueth. 
 Thirdly lady Beatrix married to Charles duke 
 ofSauoy,and mother to duke PhiUbert the iaft 
 duke thatdyed^and grand mother to this that 
 now liueth. Fourthly lord Lewis father to don 
 Antonio that now is in Ingland. Fiftly lord 
 Henry that was Cardinal and Archbifhop of 
 Ebora, and in the end king ofPortugal. And 
 fixtly lord Edvyard , that was fither of the two 
 ducheffes of Parma aiad Braganfa, to wit of 
 lady Maryland lady Catherin,bodi which ha^re 
 left goodly ilFue for that the lady Mary harh 
 
 Dd 4 kfc 
 
1 74 ^ Conference toucUng fuccefion 
 lefcbythelaft duke of Parma, lord Ranurius 
 that IS now duke of Parma, and lord Edward 
 that is Cardinal : and the lady Catherine du- 
 chelTe of Braganfa that yec liueth,hath ilfue di- 
 uers goodly princes, as the lord Thcodohus, 
 that IS nowduke of Braganfa^and three yongcr 
 biorhers,tovvit,Edward, Alexander and Phil- 
 lip, a] yong princes of great expectation ^ and 
 ihefe are the children of king Emanuel vvhofe 
 particulet fucceilions and ilRies, I f hall declare 
 fomwhat more yet in particuler. 
 sfTuc of Prince lohn ofPortugall afterward king,by 
 ^J^^^^^ name of king lohn the third,had liFue an oihcr 
 Portugal. lohn that was prince of Portugal, but dyed be-» 
 fore his father and left a fonne named Seba- 
 ftian, who vvas king, andflayne afterward by 
 theMoores in Baibary, andfo ended this firft 
 lyne. 
 
 L.Lcvves The fecond ton ne,and fourth childe of king 
 Sofi^An '^"^^"^^'^^^^^ named lord Lewis, and dyed al- 
 tonlo. " fovvithout iduelegitimatejas is ruppofed,for 
 that don Antonio his fonne , that afterward 
 was proclaymed king by the people of Lif- 
 bone,and howliueth in Ingland^ was taken 
 byal men robe vnlawful,asprcfently more at 
 ^.^^gj^^j^ large fhal be fhewed, fo as after the death of 
 nrcac- king Scbaftian , their entrcd the Cardinal lord 
 (iins^l. Henryjvvhich was third fonne to king Ema- 
 nuel, and great vncle to king Sebaftian lately 
 difceaied/or that he was brorher to king lohn 
 the third, that was grand father to king Seba- 
 ftian;>and albeit their vv;inted iK)tfome (accor- 
 
 dingc 
 
tothecro^ne. Part 2, Cap. VIII. ijy 
 
 dingeas the authors* wryte which afterward I 
 f hal name) who affirmed and held, that king 
 Phillip of Spayne fhould haiie fucceded king 
 Sebaftian before the Cardinal, for that he was 
 reercrinconfanguinitieto him then was the 
 Cardinalfor that befides that king Phillip was 
 fbnne of king Emanuels eldcft daughter, he 
 was brother alfo to king Sebaftians mothef, 
 yet the (aid Cardinal enrred peceably and by 
 confent of al parties, but for that he was old, 
 and vnmarried,and not like to leaue any child 
 of his owne, there began prefently the con^i 
 tention in his dayes,vvho fhould be his fuc* 
 ceflbr. . 
 
 •To which fuccefljon.did pretende fine prin- 
 ces of the blood royal of Portugal, befides the 
 lady Catherine Queene mother of France, who J^^^^^^l'^ 
 pretended by her mothers fide to be difcended ihe^ 
 of one lord Raphe^earle of Bulayne in Picardy, ^^^^^ 
 which Raphe was eldeft fonne of Alfonfusin France 
 l-he third king of Portugal- which Alfonfns be- 
 fore hewasking,towic,inthe tyme'^of his el- ° 
 der brother king Sanches of Portngal,was mar- 
 ried to thecountelTeand heyre of Bullayn, na- 
 med Mathildis and had by her this Raphe : but 
 afterward this Alfonfus comming to be king 
 ofPortLigaljhe married agayne with the king 
 ofCartiles daughter, and had by her a Ibnne 
 called Denyfe, who reigned after him^and his 
 fucfefiors, vnto this day ,al which fucceffion of 
 kinge Deny fe & his pofteritie, the laid Qiieene 
 mother would haue improued and fhcvved, 
 
 Dd J that 
 
17^ A Conference touching fuccef ton 
 th at it appeitey ned co her by chc faid Raphe, & 
 fortius caufe fent The to Portugal, one lord 
 Viban bifhop of Cotnince in Gafgonie, to 
 plead her caufe, which caufe of hers was 
 quicklie reiedted, and only the forfaide fiue 
 tmc pre. P^^^^^^^ difcended of king Emanuels children, 
 tenders werc admitted to tryal for the fame, which 
 movv^ vvere,Don Antonio fonne of lord Lewis the 
 of Porm- king Cardinals elder brother, and king Phillip 
 8^ ofSpayne fonne of lady Elizabeth the eldeft fi- 
 fteof t he faid Cardinal, and Philibert duke of 
 Siuoy fonne of the lady Beatrix the fame Car- 
 dinals yongerfifter, and the two ducheffes of 
 Parma and Braganfa, named Mary and Cathe- 
 rine,daughtersoflord Edward yonger brother 
 of the faid Cardinal,andyongeft child of king 
 Emanuel. And for that the lady Mary duchefle 
 of Parma, vyhich was the elder of the two 
 daughters, was dead before this controuerfie 
 fe! out,her eldeft fonne lord Ranutio now duke 
 ofParma, pretended by her right, to the faid 
 crowne. 
 
 The con- And for that this matter was of Co great im- 
 abo'u" portancc euery parte procured to lay downe 
 the fjc- their reafons, and declared their ri^htes, in the 
 ?oita<^al manner they could> and fuch as could not 
 be prefent them fellies in Portugal, fent thither 
 their agentes, Embalfadorsand Atturneys, to 
 plead their caufes for them. Don Antonio and 
 the duchefle of Braganfa,as inhabitants of that 
 kingdome,were prefent,and declared their pre-i 
 tcnces,namely Don Antonio by himfelfc , and 
 
 for 
 
tdthecroSvne. Van i. Cap. VI IT. 177 
 for himfelfe, and the lady Mary of Braganfa 
 by her hufband the duke, and his learned 
 councel. 
 
 The prince of Parma fent thither for his parte Attut- 
 one FerdinandeF^y«^/e, bif hop of Parma. The^^^y^^^^^ 
 duke of Sauoy fent Charles of Rouere , after- poitugaL 
 ward made Cardinal. The king of Spaine^ as 
 the greateft pretender fent the lord Peter Gyro 
 duke of Ofuna afterward Viceroy of Naples^Sc 
 Syr Chriftopher de Mora, knight of his cham- 
 ber at that tyme^but fince of his priuye councel 
 and lately made earle of Caftel Rodrigo in Por- 
 tugal,of which country he is natiue , and befi- 
 des thefe two, a great lawyer named Roderigo 
 Vafques, made fince(as I heare faye) lord Prefi- 
 dent of Caftil, which is as much almoft as lord 
 Chancelor with vs. 
 
 Al thefe did lay forth before the king Cardi- 
 nall their feueral reafons and pretenfions to 
 thefucceflionofthecrowne of Portugal, foe 
 the Hue perfons before mentioned, w^herof two 
 were quickly excluded, to wit, the duke cf 
 Sauoy for that his mother was yonger fifterio 
 king Phillips mother , and himfelfe alfo of 
 lelle age then the faid king. And fecondly Don 
 Antonio was alfo excluded by publike andiu- 
 ^ dicial fentence,ofthe king Cardinal his vncle, 
 as illegitimate , and borne out of law^ful wed- 
 loke, and albeit D5 Antonio denyed the fame, 
 and went about to proue hym felfe legiiimar, 
 affirmmg that his father the lord Lewis^before 
 hisdeaihhad rnarded with his mother in fe- 
 
 cret. 
 
17S A Conference touching fuccepon 
 cret^and for this broughc forth fome witnefle5, 
 as namely h is mothers (ifter with her husband, 
 and two others: yet the king Cardinal affir- 
 mcd^that vppon examinatio he had found them 
 tobefiiborned which he faid was euident to 
 him, partly for that they agreed not in their 
 fpeecxhes,and partly for that Ibmeof them had 
 confefled the fame^to wk, that they werefub- 
 orned, whom he caft into prifon , and caufed 
 Afentece them to be panil bed , and fo luting in iudge- 
 ^^,nliiln Hient^accompained with fower bifhopeSj and 
 ai^aitia fovver lawyers^ who he had called to aflift him 
 umio^^' ^his caufejhe pronounced the fame Don An- 
 tonio to be a biftard, for which the Authors 
 that I haue read about this matter which are 
 principally two, the firft named Hierom TrMke^ 
 a gentleman of Genua,who wrote ten bookes 
 TVri-crs Icalian,of the vnion of the crowne of Portu- 
 of this CO gal to the crowne of GaftiHi, and the fecond is 
 caucrfic. named loams Antonm Viperanns a Sicilian as I 
 take him, who wrote one bookc only in latine, 
 deohtentii Portugallta a rege Catholtco Vbillippo , of 
 Portugal gotte by king Phillip the Catholikc, 
 both I hvfc bookes fl fay) out of whom princi- 
 paHyl haue taken the pointes v^rhich Keere f 
 wil rouch, do feuerally fetdovvnc, thecaufes 
 following, why the king Cardinal did reiedt 
 ^^^^ the pretence of Don Antonio before al other 
 i« why prctenders^and pronounced him a baftard. 
 do(\ Ati- pif(].^ foj. [\^2Li he had byn euer fo taken al the 
 ^.15 pro-tvmeofhisfatherslife, and no man eucrdow- 
 Kjjunccd ted tlierof, or called the matter in qiKflionj, 
 m^c. vntil 
 
tothccroH-ne. Tart i. Cap. VIII. 179 
 I vntil now that himfelfe denyed the fame. 
 
 Secondly for that in ihe ty me of lulius Ter* 
 I tius the Pope, when ccrraynedecres came out 
 I from Rome, againftthe promotion of baftar- 
 1 des,thefamcD6 Antonio fued to the faid Pope, 
 I to bedifpeuled with aim that cafe, which ar- 
 giieth that then he knew himfelfe not legiti- 
 mate. 
 
 Thirdly'that his father the lord Lewis had 
 often tymes both by woid and writing reftified 
 thefame^ that thisAntonye was his baftard, 
 and had fignified alfo fo much in his laft wil & 
 teftamenr. 
 
 Fourthly the faid Cardinal as of himfelfe, 
 alfoafrirmed, that if his brother the lord Le- 
 wis, had euer done any fuch ihmge,as to many 
 this \Voman,w ho was but bafe m birth, and of 
 rhe lewifh race, as thefe ftories do affirme: 
 that it is ljke,that he would haue made fome of 
 his owne frendes & kynred acquainted ther- 
 ' with, as a matter fo much important for them 
 10 know, but he neuer did, though the faid 
 Cardinal auowed that himfelfe was prefent 
 with him at his death. 
 
 Fifilyhe laid, that if Don Antonio had bin 
 lcgitimate,how h appened that he did not pre- 
 tend the fucceflion before the Cardinal him- 
 felfe, next after the death of king Sebaftian, 
 feing that he was to haue gone before the faid 
 Cardinal by as good right,as his other nephew 
 Sebaftian did, if he had bin legitimate, for that 
 
 he was 
 
1 8o A Conference touching fuccefton 
 
 hevvasfonnealfo to the Cardinales elJer bra* 
 ther^as hath bin faidc. 
 <s, Sixtly & laftly^ the faid king Cardinal auow- 
 chcd againft Don Antonio, partly the difagrce- 
 ing and paitly the open confefling of the vvit- 
 nelles, that they were fuborned by him, vppori 
 ^il which caufes and confiderations,he procee- 
 ded to theiudicipi fentence before alleaged. 
 
 Thuspafied the matter in the cafe of Don 
 Antonio, who if he had bin legitimate^ no 
 doubt, but by al right he fhouldhaue bin pre- 
 ferred before al the other pretenders to the 
 Don An. crovvne of Poi tugal,and muft be at this day, to- 
 prerTcito ^'^^^^ ^he crowne of Ingland , before al thofe 
 icgiand. that pretend of the houfe of Portugal, if we 
 graunt him to be legitimate, and much more 
 clearly may he pretend to the dukedome of 
 Lancafter,as before hath bin declared, for that 
 it muft difcend to the lawful heyre of lady 
 Phillip Queenc of Portugall, wherof enfcweth 
 alfo, oneconfiderarion not impertinent to vs 
 in Ingland, that ftingwe hold him there for 
 true king of Portugal, I fee not how we can 
 denye him his right to the (aid dukedome, at 
 leaftof Lancafter J wherof if we would giue 
 him but the poflcffion with al the appurte* 
 nanccSj^ls they lye^it were noeuel interteynmet 
 for him in ourcountryvnnl he could gett the 
 Thrcd^ poffeffion of the crowne in his o wne, 
 principaii After the exclufions of thefe two prcrcn- 
 fetof rot' ^^^^^^ wit of chc duke of Sauoy^ and of Don 
 tugai. Amonio, 
 
tothecYo^ne. Tart 2. Cap. VIII. iSi 
 Antonio, the whole controuerfie foi Portugal, 
 rcmayncd, betweene the other three , which 
 W^erc the king of Spayne fonne of lady Ilabel 
 cldc^ft daughter of king Emanuel, and the 
 two duchelles of Parma and Braganfa.daugh- 
 ters of the yonger fonne of the faid kuig Ema-' 
 xiuel, to wit of the lord Edward infantof Por- 
 tugal 
 
 And firft'of al,for that the eldeft of the fc two J^^^^^f 
 Ladycsto vvit^Maryduchefle of Paima, was duke of 
 now dead, her eldeft fonne lord Ranurio now^^^** 
 duke of Parma, entred in her place, andallca- 
 gedthathe reprefente^ his mother, and (he 
 her father lord Edward,which Lord if he had 
 binaliue,hefhould (nodoubtj haue bin pre- 
 ferred before his elder fifter , lady Elizabeth 
 mother of king Phillip, and confequently that 
 the faid lord Edwards iffue ought to be pre-^ 
 ferred before her ifliie, and this he alleaged 
 againft king Phillip. 
 
 Andagamftthe duchefleof Braganfa he aU 
 leaged^ihar his faid mother vvas the elder fi- 
 fter,and for that caufe he which novrpoirefled 
 her right and reprefentedher perfon, vvas to 
 be preferred before the faid lady Catherine du- 
 chefleof Braganfa^ Co that the foundation of 
 this pretence^ of the duke of Parma was, that 
 he was nephew to the lord Edward, by his el- 
 deft daughter, and that to king Emanuel he 
 Was nephew, once remoued, by'his fonne, 
 vvheras king Phillip was nephew but by his 
 daughter only^ and that the lady Catherine of 
 
 Braganfa 
 
TSl A Conjerence touching juccepen 
 Braganfa was only fecond daughcei: ;o ihe (aid 
 Lord Edward. 
 For xht^ But CO this was anfwered for the fame lady 
 ofBra^* CatherinCjfirftjthat f he vras borne and bread 
 gania. in Portugal,and chctfore more to be fauourcd 
 in this acilion, then either king Phillip or the 
 duke of Parma, which were forrayne borne. 
 And fecondly againft king Phillipp in particn- 
 ler, fhevfed the fame argument, thni before 
 the duke of Parma had donne, which is ^ that 
 fhe was daughter of lord Edward , fonne of 
 king Emanuel, whofe right was better then ' 
 liisl]ftcrs,andconfequently that his children. 
 Were to be preferred before the child of his fi- 
 fter, in this pretence^ to wit, before king Phil- 
 lip. And thirdly againft the duke of Parma, f he 
 alleaged, that f he was one degree neerer in 
 propinquitie of blood vnto king Emanuel and 
 vncokmg Henry the Cardinal, then the duke ^ 
 of Parma was^^ vvliich was but nephew>& f he 
 daughter to the faidlord Edward, that was 
 brother to the faid lord Cardinal, and fonne of 
 Kcprefcn king Emanuel. And when for the duke of Par- 
 dudcY^' ma it was afKtmed,that he reptefentcdhis mo- 
 thers place, that was the elder fifter^ anfvvere 
 was made, that no reprefentation^ was admit- 
 ted in this cafe of the fucceflionto thecrowne 
 of Portugal, bur thateuery pretender was to 
 be confidered , and taken in his owncperfon 
 onlyjandtobe preferred according to his de- 
 gree in propinquitie cfblood, to the former 
 princes^ and ifit happened that they fhould be 
 
iothecrd^ne. Vart 1. Gap. VIII. i%j 
 
 in equal degree, then each partye to be prefer- 
 red according to the prerogatiue$ only of his 
 perfon,to wict,the man before^the woman,and 
 the elder before the yonger. 
 
 And for that the lady Catherine of Bragan(a 
 was neerer by one degree to her father lord 
 Edward then was the duke of Parma who was 
 but nephew, therfore f he was to be preferred, 
 and many great bookes were written by la- 
 wyers in this ladyes behalfe^and her right was. 
 generally held in Portugal to be preferred be- 
 fore the other of Parma, which was not a litle 
 for the aduancement of king Phillipps title 
 before thernboth,asprefenily fhalbef hewed. 
 
 It was replied againft this anfwer^in the be- 
 halfeofthedirke of Parma, that the laft king a reply 
 Scbaftian entrcd the crowne by way o^r^pre-^^^i^^^^ 
 fcntation^ and not by propinquitie of bloody Painaa. 
 forthat he wasadegree further of in propin- 
 qtiitie of blood from king lohn the third who 
 he faccedcd,rhen was the Cardinal,for rhat he 
 was but his nephew, to wit his Tonnes fonne, 
 anil the Cardinal was his brother,and yet was 
 theftid Sebaftian-ftdmicted before the Cardi* 
 naljfor that he reprefented the place and right 
 of his father prince lohn, that dyed before he 
 inherited, and fo wefeethat in this cafe repre- 
 fentation was admitted (faidthey) and in like 
 manner ought it to be now. 
 
 Totbisit was faide,that Sebaftian was not 
 fo much preferred before his gtear vncle the 
 Cardinal, by vcttue of reprefcntatio, as for that 
 
 Ee he was 
 
t84 ACon^mc^^ 
 he was of the right difcendant ly ne of K. lohnt 
 and the Cardinal was buc of" the collaieral or 
 tranfuerfal lyne, and chat al law allovvah that 
 the fight lync f halfiift be lerued andprcftired, 
 before the collateral i halbe admitted, Co that 
 heerby reprefentation is nothing furthered. 
 
 Thisexclufion of reprefentation,did greatly 
 futiher and aduancc the pretence of king Phil- 
 ^^*pjglip,for the excluding of both the feladyes, and 
 fence to thcjr iffucs ; for that ruppafing(as this anfwere 
 auouchcth; thattheir is no reprtfcniation of 
 father or mother or predecclFors to be admit- 
 ted, but that euery pretender is to be confidered 
 only in his owneperlon, then itfolloweth, 
 (^faid thefe men which plead fortbekingj that 
 king Phillip being in equal degree of propin- 
 quitie of blood,vvKh the two ladyes, in refpcdk 
 as wel of K.Hery yet lining (for that ihey were 
 al three children of brother and fiftcr) it folio- 
 Weth thathcwas to be preferred before them 
 both, as well in refped that he was a man , and 
 they both Women,asalfo, for that he was ci- 
 der in age.and borne before them both. And 
 albeit the duke of Parma alleaged that he was 
 alio a man, yet was it anfwertd that he was 
 one degree further of from the forefaid kings, 
 then was king Phillip, fo as not refpedingrc- 
 prc{entation of rht ir parentcsjhat is to fay, not 
 conlideringat all, thatkmg Phillip difccndcd 
 ofa Woman, & the twoduchelTes, of a roan, 
 but only^- refpecSbing their owne pcrfbns , as 
 hach bin declared^ thefc men auouched , that 
 
 king 
 
Uthecro^ne. Part i. CaI*. VIII. iS/ 
 
 king PhiUipps perfbn waseuideiuly ro be pre- 
 ferred, for thar he was a degree neererin blood 
 then {he duke of Parma, and (opcrior in fex Sc 
 age, ro the Lady Catherine of Bra^iinfa. 
 
 Moreoiier the lawyers of king Philhpps fide 
 affii mcd, that he was neerer alfo in propinqui- 
 tieof blood to king Sebaftianithc laft king>thea 
 yvasthe very king Cardinal himlelfe, & much 
 more then any of the ether two ptecenders^for 
 that he was brother to rhcfaidkjng Sebaftians ^iaersaj. 
 motherj and the Cat dmalwas but brother toJo^k^^ng* 
 hisgradfather^ And beddes rhis,they alleaged^^^^F* 
 that Portugal did belong to the crowne of Ca* 
 ftil by diuei s other meanesofold, as for that it 
 could not be giuen away by kings of Caftil in 
 rnariiage of rhcir daughters^ as the principal 
 partes therof had byn,as alfo for that whekmg 
 John the fiift,that w^as a baftard,was made king 
 of Portugal, bv ele<5lion of the people, the mhe- 
 rirance therofdid euidcntly appcrteyne to king 
 lohn of Caftil, that had to wifc,the lady Beatrix 
 d;\ughter and hey re of Ferdinand king of Por- 
 tugal, from which inheritance of that crowne, 
 by open iniurye, both fhc and her poftehric 
 (vvhofe right is in kmg Phillip at this day^ 
 were debarred, by th^ mrrufio of the faid lohn, 
 tnafterof Auii, baftard brother of theforclaid 
 king Feriinand. 
 
 Thelc reafons alleaged diuers lawyers in the 
 behalfe of king Phillip, and thofe not only 
 Spaniards b it alfo of diuers other couniryes & 
 nations^ as my auihois before named do auow, 
 
 Ec ^ and 
 
i86 A Ct)HfeY€mtmhi^g fmej^kii 
 fllwi^io,^^^ many bookcs were writcen ofthismattcr^ 
 ?ct.vipc- and when the contention was at the hotcfr^ 
 lanw. then died the king Cardinal , before he could 
 decide the lame controucrfie^vppon which oc- 
 cafion,the king of Spaine,being perfuaded that 
 his right was bcft^ & that he being a Monarch 
 and vnder no temporal iiidge, was not bound 
 lo expert any other ludgment in this affayrc^ 
 rortolubiedhimfclfe to any other tribunal^ 
 but chat he might by force puthimfelfe jn pof- 
 feffion^of that which he tooke to be his ownc, 
 if otherwife he could not haue it deliuered 
 vno him (for fo write thcfe authors by me 
 named) feingalfo don Antonio to pretend the 
 faid kingdome, by only fauour of fbme popu-* 
 ler partie;,that he had hi Lisbonej the faid king 
 Phillip cncrcd vppon Portugal by force of ar^ 
 mcs, as al the world knoweth, and holdcth the 
 lame pepceably vnto the day. 
 The cafe And I haue byn the longer in fettingdownc 
 otprctC'cethis contention about the fucceflion to the 
 hovvi^ crowne of Portugal, for that itincludeth alfo 
 of Porta- the very fame pretence and contention for the 
 ghnd/*^" crowne of Inglad.For that al ihefe three princes 
 before named, may in like manner pretend the 
 fucceilion of thatmieredtothchoufe of Lan- 
 caftcr , and by that to the crowne of Ingland, 
 which doch difcend from Queene Phillippe eU 
 deft daughter of lohn of Gaunt , duke of Lan- 
 carter, and filler of king Henry the fourth as 
 hath largely bin declared. 
 A nd albeit that fome men Wil fay that this 
 
 ~" matter 
 
to the m^m. Tart z. C a v. V 1 1 T. i S7 
 
 matter is now decided, which of ihefe princes of 
 the houfe of Portugal hath the intereft to In- 
 glandjfor that king Phillip bein^ now prefer- 
 red in the fucccilion of Portugal, entreth alfo 
 therbytothe other right of fucceffion of In- 
 gland,yet others will fay no y for that the la- 
 Wes of fucceffion in Poitugal and Ingland be 
 different, tor that in Ingland rcprcfeniation ta- An obic* 
 keth place, lb as the children of the ^""'^ fj-^^^j^^ 
 though they be women, fhaleucr be preferred anVwc;. 
 l)efore the children of the daughter , though 
 they be men,vvheroffhefemendoinferr, that 
 feing the lady Phillipps right before mentio* 
 ned to the dukedome of Lancafter, and therby 
 ^1 fo to the crowne of Ingland, is to be preferred 
 according to the lawes of Ingland, and not by 
 the lawes of other forrayne countryesj it foU 
 loweth, that the felfe fame right of fucceflion 
 that is pretended at this day by the princes of 
 Portugalfor fucccding thcfaid lady Phillippe, 
 fhould be determined only by the lawes of 
 Ingland , where reprefentation taketh place^ 
 and not by ihe lawes of any other natian :Thus 
 (ay they. 
 
 But againft this, others do alleage, that the 
 queftion is not heer, by what law this pretence 
 of the blood royal of Portugal to the crowne of 
 Ingland,istabe tried, but rather who is th^' 
 true and next heyre and fucceflbr vnto K. lohn 
 the firft,and to his wife Queene lady Phillippe, 
 heyrcof the houfe of Lancafter , which two 
 priuces vvere king and Queene of Portugal, & 
 
 Ee 3 iheir 
 
1 8 8 / Confemce touching fuccefm 
 their true hey re at this day harh the forenamcd 
 pretence,tothe crowneoflngland, which true 
 and next heyre , being once Icnowne, it litle 
 importethby whcitlaw hepretenderh his faid 
 right to I ngland, whether by that of Inglador 
 by thisofPortugal,orby bothc, thoughe to 
 deteimine this firll and chief pointy who is the 
 next and true heyre vntothefeforefaid king & 
 Queene of Portugal , the lawes of Portugal 
 muftneedes be iudge & not thofeof Ingland, 
 ^nd fojfcing that by thefc lawts of Portugal^ 
 the king of Spay ne, isnowadiudged for next 
 heyre,to the faid princes, and is in pplfefljon of 
 their inheritance at this day , I meane of the 
 crowne of Portugal J thefe me fay,that he muft 
 confequently inhetite alfo al other nghtes dig- 
 nities and prerogatiues belonginjg to the forc- 
 faid princesjor to their poftentic. 
 
 And thus you fee now how great diuer/Itie 
 of arguments and obiedions, are and may be 
 alIcaged,on different fides , about this afFayre, 
 Vvherby alfo is made manifeftjhow doubtful & 
 ambiguous a matter this pointeof Inglifh fuc- 
 ce{Iion,is,feingthat in oneonly branch of the 
 pretenders, which is in thehoufe of Portugal 
 alone, their are fomany difficulties, as hecrc 
 hath byn touched, 
 obic- Bur now the common obieAion againft al 
 ^'a^nit thefe titles and titlcrs.is, that they are old and 
 thcprc outofvre, and not to be brought in queftioa 
 J^^^p^J^^^ againe now , efpecially feing that both king 
 [f^. Henry the fcuenth and his iflue, bauc enioyed 
 
 (plong 
 
tethecfoT^m. Tart I. Cap. VIII. 189 
 
 fo long the title of the houfe of Lancafter, as it 
 hath, and fecondly that thefe titles do apper- 
 leyne vnto ftrangers vvhofe gouerment may 
 be dangerous many wayes vnto Ingland, and 
 cfpeciailyin that which toucheth the king of 
 Spayoe,\vho being fo great and mightye a mo-» 
 narchasbe is, may preiudice greatly the In- 
 glifh liberrye,and eafcly bring them into (erui- 
 tiuc, if his pretence fhould befauoured, as by 
 fom'? it fcemeth to be. 
 
 Thisisthefpeachof many men in Ingland, 
 and abroad at this day , whcrunto yet fome^y^j^ 
 others do anfwer, that as concerning the firff 
 obieftion of the oldnes of the pretence, & title, 
 it hath bin f hewed bcfoie, thit by law no title 
 toakingdomedyetheuer, but mav take place 
 vvhenfoeuer the partie to whom k bclongeth, 
 is able to auouch it and gett polleflion , and as 
 for this pretence of theline of Portugal , they 
 fay , that if<-hath not fuch great age, but that very 
 vvelitmay fheW'it£elfe,and behad in confide- 
 racion,efpecially arthistyme, when now the 
 ilfue male of king Henry the (euenth is ended, 
 and that of nece(Iitie, we m«ft rerurne to haue 
 confideration of the i{Fue of his daughters , be- 
 fore which daughters , good reafon (fay thcfe 
 XJien^ is it , that the Hlbe of lady Phillippe 
 Queene of Portugal fhould be admitted, for 
 that albeit we would haue that refpeft to the 
 ifTiie maleof lohn Earle of Somerfetjas to pre- 
 fcrrit, or fiiffer ittoenioy thecrowne, before 
 ibeiirucof Qucenc Phillippe (and fo they fay 
 
 Ec 4 i^fcc-' 
 
1 90 A Confmnct touching fuccefm 
 it fecmcth that it was, for that king Henry the 
 Sis^ fcuenth was crowned king, his mother being 
 aliue, vvhichyet by ordinary courfe of fuccet 
 fion f hould haue gone before him)yet fav they, 
 itisnoreafonthattheiflfae female of lohn of 
 SomerfetjOr of king Henry the feuenrh f hould 
 be preferred before the iflue male of the faid 
 Queene Phillippe. 
 
 Moreoiier they {aye, that the houfeof Cla* 
 rence and Huntington do pretend a title more 
 old and ftale at tliis day, then this of Pprtugal, 
 for that they pretend from George duke of 
 Giarcnce,that neuer had the crowne,and thefc 
 of Portugal pretend to be next heyreto king 
 Henry the fixt , that did vyecrc the crovvne of 
 Jngland,for 4o.yearestogeather, after whofc 
 death, ifkingAlfonfus of Portugal fwho vva$ 
 then old & wearied with euel fucceflfe of war- 
 rcsjhadbiri fo able to preferr and follow h\$ 
 title,asfomcof that houfe beat this day , he 
 would neuer haue fuffered the hou fe of York 
 to haue entred,nor king Henry thefeuenth to 
 haae enioyed it after them , by the title of Lan- 
 cafter,vvhich title yet of Lancafter (fay thefc 
 men) king Henry the feuenth could not haue 
 in hioafelfe any way , whether wc refpecfk 
 By what QH?^"^ Ph jllippe, or lohn of Somerfet, for by 
 title king Quieene Phillippe, they of Portugal were eui- 
 "Tdcn- ^^^^^y before him, and by wayc of lohn of So- 
 la, merfet the countefic his mother was as clcerly 
 before hym, nether could he haue any title, a$ 
 yetpby the houfc of Yorke, for that he was not 
 
 yet 
 
ntbecro^ne. Tart i. Cap. VHI. 191 
 
 yet man ied to the daughter of king Edward; 
 fo as his crowning in the fcild, and whole en- 
 trance to the kingdome , was without any 
 acftual title at al, but only the good will of the 
 peoplejasthefe men do hold. 
 
 To the other obie(3:ion of forraine princes Sc Aheut 
 ftrange gouerment , that may come to Ingland ^0"^'^^,! 
 by thefe pretences of the princes of PonugalMngiaad. 
 diuers men do anfwcr diuerfly , for fome 6o_ 
 grauntthat itmay be (b, that by this meanes 
 Ingland may come to be vndec foray nekinges^ 
 and that no hurt,or inconuenience at al would 
 enfue therof to Ingland, but rather much good 
 and commoditie: jbut other that like not well 
 of this alTertionjdo fay further , that if (hefe for* 
 rayne pretence fhould take place , yet that al 
 matters might be Co compounded , that albeit 
 the prince himfelfe which is to rule, fhould be 
 forrayne borne (which they take to be no in-^ 
 conueniencej yet that his forces and deperr-^ 
 dance, fhould be only of the Inglifh, for that 
 he fhould not bring in any ftrainge powers 
 into the land, no more them did king Stephen 
 or king Henry the fecond, that were borne in 
 FranccjOr then did king Phillip of Spayne in 
 Quecne Maryes dayes,or as it is thought Mon- 
 fieur of France fhould haue done , if he hnd 
 married her Maieftie that now is, as once it was 
 fuppofed he fhould. 
 
 Tothisfaidoneof the companic, and isitAbont 
 poflible,that any man, fhould be of opinio that^^"^"^ 
 forrayne gouerment in what manner or kindemem. 
 
 Ee J foeuei: 
 
Iff! A Cmfermemchmgfuccefm 
 ibciierit be, fhould not be iuconuenient and 
 Jiurtfull tolngladj wher the people are who- 
 lyebentagainft it: you remember (^quoch he) 
 astonceringthelaft two examples, thatryou 
 hauc alleaged, what tumult and (lure their 
 vvasrayfedby fome kyndeofrrien, about the 
 comminginof kmg Phithp, and what their 
 was like to hauebyn^ about the entrance of 
 Monfieufjif thatpurpofe had gone for-ward. 
 
 I remember welfaid the Lawyer, and thefe 
 men that are of this opinion , vvil fay to this, 
 that it was but a populer mutiney without rea- 
 fon or any good grounde at all, and only ray fed 
 by forne crafty heades, that mitliked the religia 
 of the princes that were to enter, and for fomc 
 other driftes of their owtte, but not of any 
 (bund leafcMi or argument of ftate, which thefo 
 men thinke rather to be of their (ide,& in good 
 (both they alleage fo many argumentes for 
 their opinion, that if you fhould heare them^ 
 you would fay itweare hard to iudge which 
 opinion had moft truth, but they are to longe 
 for this place and fo ffaid he I fhall make an 
 end of the matter that I haue in hand and Icaue 
 this pointe,for others to difculle; 
 iioa ^'^'^ ^^^^ whole companye fhewed mar- 
 the next uclous great defire to know the reafons, that 
 abou?f ^^^^^ parties, for this matter,&fo much 
 
 laine go' more,for (hat it fcemed to fal very fit to the 
 ufimcni. purpofe,ofthefe pretences of foraync princes, 
 for which caufe they intreated him very in- 
 ftamly that before he pafled any further, or en-= 
 
Utheerol^m. Tart i. Cap. IX. i$| 
 
 ded his whole difcourfc,ofthc titles ^ ("which 
 hitherto th^^y faid had greatly contented them) 
 he would ftay himfelfe a litle alfo vppon this 
 matter, which though for a tyme he made 
 great difficultietodo, yet in the end , beinge fo 
 importuned by them he proniifed that at their 
 meeting the next day, he would fatisfie their 
 defire/and fo for that tyme they departed very 
 Wel contented but,yet as they faide, with ihcit 
 fceadcs ful of cities and titlers^to the crowne. 
 
 WHETHER IT BE B.ET^ 
 
 TER TO BE VNDER A FOR^ 
 
 RAINE OR FJOM-PORNE P5LINCE, 
 
 ^nd timber vnderagretit & tntghtic 
 Mofimh^ or vnderalttle prince 
 
 Cap. IX. 
 
 THe companye being gathered together 
 the next day, and fhewing much de(ire to 
 heate thepointe difcufled about forraine go- 
 uerment,wherof mention had bin made tbd 
 day bcfore,the lawyer began to fay, that for (b 
 niuch,asthey would needs haue him to enter 
 intothat matter , which of it felfe wa.s ful of 
 preiudicejn moft mens eares and myndes , for 
 that no nation comriionly could abide to heare 
 of being vnderftrangegouernours and goner- 
 mcnrsjhe ment to acqujte himfelfe in this their 
 ic^ucft, as he had done inoiber matters bc^ 
 
 fore. 
 
1 94 / Confutence touching fuceefm 
 fore, which was to lay downe only the opi- 
 nions and reafons of other men , that haddif- 
 puted this affaire on both fides before him, and 
 of his ownc to affirme or deny nothing. 
 
 And firftofalagainft the dominions offtra- 
 gcrs,and Forrincrs hcfaid , that he might diC. 
 courfe without end, and filvp whole bookes 
 and volumes with thereafonsand arguments,^ 
 or at lead wife with the diflikes and auerfions, 
 that al men commonly had to be vnder ftran- 
 gers, or to haue any alliens to beareruleor 
 charge oner the, be they of what codition ftate 
 m degree focuer,and in this he faid, that as wel 
 philofophers , lawmakers wife and good men^ 
 as others do agree commonly, for that we fee 
 both by their wordes writinges and fa6l:es,tbat 
 they abhorr to fubied: themiclues to ftrang go-? 
 uerments, (basin al the eight bookcs of Ari- 
 ftotles politiques,you f hal Ihll fee,that in al the 
 different formes of common wealthes, that he 
 fetteth downe, he prcfuppofeth euer that the 
 goiierment f halbe by people of the felfe fame 
 naiion,and the fame thing doprefumc in like 
 manner, althofe lawmakers that he their mc- 
 tioneth,ro wif,Minois Solon, Licurgus^^Numa. 
 PompiIius, and the reft, and he that f hal reade 
 Demof- the famous inueiftiuesof Demofthenesagainft 
 rm^'xcTt, the pretentions of king Phillip of Macedonia,? 
 & in A- thatdefiredto incroch vppon the Athenians,, 
 and other ftates of Greece, as alfo his orations 
 againft AEfchines ^ his aduerfaric , that wasi 
 thought fecrctly to. fauotir the (aid forraync 
 
 princ«3| 
 
tothecfof^ne. Tart i. Cap. IX. ijjr 
 prince, fhal fee what hatred that noble Orator 
 liadagainft forraine gouerment, and he that 
 fhalrcadthebookesofourtyme either of the 
 Italians when they fpake of their fubiedion- in 
 cymes paft to the Lobardes, German, or fiench 
 nacions,or to the fpaniards at this day , or f hal 
 confider what the french do prefently write 8c 
 inueigh againft the power of the houfe of 
 Guyfe and Loray ne in Frace, for that they take 
 them to be ftraingers, Thai eafely (ee how dee- 
 ply this auerfion againft ftrangers , is rooted 
 in their haites, and this for tcftimony of 
 vvord* 
 
 But now if we vvil confider the f*<3:e^ that Attiptcs 
 haueenfued about this matter, and how much tod<aiu«t 
 blood hath bin fhedd , and what dcfperat at-^"^^ 
 tempts haue bin taken in hand , by diuers na- 
 tionSjfor auoyding theirfubiedtion to ftragers, 
 or for deliuering themfelues from ihe lame 
 againe, if once they haue fallen into ir, you 
 fhal behold more plainly, the very impreflion 
 ofnatureherfelfcin this affaire, for of diuers 
 barbarous nations, realmes 8c citties, we reade 
 in ftories,rhat they rather chofe to flea & mur- 
 ther themfelues, then tobevnder thedominio ^"f: 
 oHtrangerSjOthershaueaduentured ftrang at-6c6.dc 
 temptes,& bloody ftratagems, as the Sicilians, 
 who in one day and at the feife fame hower, at vcfpcrc 
 thetymeof eueningfong, flew al the french- Siaiianip^ 
 men that were within the Iland^ whom J^^^^^^^^l 
 themtelues had called and inuited thither not dcfcript* 
 long before-, and the like is iccurded in our^^^^*' 
 
 IngUfh 
 
l^iS A Confeicnce touching fuceefioH 
 Inglifhftorics of killing the danes, bylngliffe 
 folydli. n)en,aconc lyme , in moilruful manner, and. 
 lings^iQ '^^^ ofcentyraes thought oh alfo by 
 ?ic.Ca. the IngUfh againft the Normans, when ihcy 
 oppeflcd vs, and by the French againft the In* 
 ghih vvhiles we had dominion in France^ 
 though nether the one nor the other of thefc 
 latter defigffcfers^rould beefFc<£Vuated, for want 
 of forces,and commodityc,and by rcafon of the 
 Waichfalnesofthe contrary part. But yet to 
 fpeake only of France, the rage and fury of the 
 french was generally fo great and implacable, 
 againft the Inglifh that gouerncdthearcjn ihe 
 fe- leigneof king Henry the lixt,as both Polidor 
 1-^ & other ftorie^do note fat what tyme, parti/ 
 by thedilfcntionsofthehoufcs of York & Lan^ 
 caftcrin IngJand, and partly by the valour of 
 offh^'^ their ownc new kingCharles the fcuenth/hey 
 licnch" tad hope to beriddof the IngUfh dominion) 
 againft as no petfuafion or reafon, nofeare ofpunifh- 
 ^ * menr, no force pfarmes,nopromiiTe or threat, 
 iiodanger,nopirrie, no religion, no rcfpedl of 
 God nor man, could reprcs or ftay them from 
 lylingand rcuoltmg eueiy where againft the 
 Inghl h goucrmcnt and goatrncGrs,marthe^ 
 ring thofe of the Inghfh nation in al partes and 
 corncrs^wherfoeuer they found them, without 
 remorfe or compaflion,vntil they were vtterly 
 deliuered,of their dominion. 
 The con- So as this rriatier is taught vs (fay thefc men) 
 clufioa eucn by nature her (elfe , that ftrangcrs gouer- 
 Suap'gctt. ^^^^ ^ be admitted^ and moreouer the 
 
 icafoaJ 
 
^ Cap* IX. X97 
 
 rcaforfs before allcaged againll the king of 
 Scotlands pretence , together with the exam- 
 ples and iudgcmenrs of the realmes of SpaynC 
 and Portagaljvvho relulued rather to alter the 
 true order and coutfe of their fucceffion , thea 
 to admit (trangers oucc them^do playncly con- 
 firme the fame. 
 
 Andiaftofal (faythefc men) theauthoritie 
 of holy fcriptiire is euidcnt, in this behalfe, for 
 that when God in Deutronomje,did fortcil by ^ o?rS* 
 Moy fes,that the lewcs in tyme would conie to pturc^ 
 change their gouermcnt^ and to dt fire a l^ir^g^^^' 
 as other nations roundc about them had ^ he * 
 added yet this exprelle conditio,that he ( hould 
 be only of (heir owne nation^ for he faycth. 
 Cenflitues eum quern Dmimu Deus turn eleqer'tt de ^ 
 numcYojratru tuoruniy non poterts altertus gains hg^^ 
 tninem regcmfdcere^ qui nonfttfrater tuns : thar is^ 
 ihovy f halt make king at that tyme, fuch a 
 one as ihy lord God Thai chufe for that dignity^ 
 outof the number of thy brethren , bur thovv 
 mayrtnot makea kingofany other nation, but 
 ofthyownc brethren. Thus fay thefc men^ 
 againft admitting of ftrangers,and it feemeth 
 thattheir opinion and affcclion, hath many 
 followers, for that generally we fee moil mea 
 affed-ed and inclined this way, 
 . But y tt on the other fide there wat not other Thctn- 
 iren vvhoappeare bothe wiredirpaflrjonate& ^'^'vercin 
 graue, thatvvil feeme roconfider this matter of ^fonti. 
 far othecwjfe) anddofay,that al this, is but an^goucc- 
 common vulgar preiudice , of paflionate mcn,"^^**^ 
 
 agaiiift 
 
198 A Conference touchtfig fuccepon 
 againft ftrangers^ry fing partly by corruption of 
 narure, vvherby men are inclined to tkinke 
 cuil of ochcrs,and to beare them little affcdlio^ 
 efpecially, fuch as gouerneand bcarc rule ouer 
 them, and fo much the lelle by how much far- 
 ther of,they are from vs in kynred and acquaint 
 tance,and partly alio they faye that th^ fame ri- 
 fethoflackecf dew confkleration in rhc mod: 
 parte of men, for that they weigh not the true 
 reafonSjCaufeSjOr effects of thingSjbut only the 
 outward fhcw,and fodorunneaway with the 
 opinion and apprehenfio of the populer, which 
 for the moft parte hath no other ground or 
 foundation in it but only fancy and imagina- 
 tion, or incitation of others, ^^at indeuour to 
 procure tumults, and fo they fay it falleth out 
 in this pointe,as vppon examination ic f hal ap« 
 peare. 
 
 • And forproofe and declaration ofthis their 
 aflertion, they do require fiiftof al, that this 
 crdinarie and common preiudicc againlt ftran- 
 gi rs or flrang gouerments^bc laid a (ide,fo long 
 ar leafi:,as the matter is in difpntation ^ and that 
 only the true effe(9:s, of good and profitable go- 
 uerment may be colidcred, without that other 
 circumftance, whether thefe frutes do come 
 The ef. from ftranger or hom-bornc prince, which ef- 
 uetucms ^^^^ peace, reft,iuftice,defcnce of the inno- 
 tobe concent, punifhment of the wickcd,vvealth,fecQ- 
 ^';?'^';^;:^^ritie,and other fuch benefites, that good eo- 
 goucr- uerment is wont to bring with it, to thelub- 
 ^^^"^ iedts. Thcfe things (lay ihefc men) are to be 
 
 yvcighed 
 
io the ao%ne. Vart. t. CavAX. 1 99 
 
 Vvcighed indifferently and without pallion^ 
 by wifemenj and v vherefoeuer thefe efFedls arc 
 more abundantly to be founde, their thegouer- 
 mentisbeft, and their the fubieifis arc inbeft 
 cafe,v vhatfocuer the gouernours be,or of what 
 nation or country, (beuerthey be. And this 
 thev iTievv by this example following. 
 
 Ifin two countrycs or common wealthes, A" 
 lymg nigh together j ibefubieds of the one, 
 fhould liuemalcafe ^ Wealth and profperity, 
 vnder aftrainger, asdiuersftates didvnder the 
 Romans, and in the other they f hould be bea- 
 ten^whipped^andafflided vnder a horn- borne 
 prince, as vvereade the Sicilians were vnder 
 Phalaris and Dionifios their countrymen ly- 
 raunts, clcareitis, (i\y thefe men) that the llri- 
 j pes and afflidions would not feeme the eafyer^ 
 I for that they come from a natural prince, but 
 i rather the heauier, and the others happye cafe 
 I vnder the ftrainger,muft needs feeme to be the 
 I belter, and confequently his gouerment rather 
 ; to be wif hed: for that in vety truth the good- 
 , nes&defedofeuery gouerment, istoberaea- 
 i fared by theeffeds there of,that redound vnto 
 the fubie£ls,forwhofe good it was firftordey- 
 ! nedj asofrenrymcs ourfrcnd the Ciuil lawyer 
 I hach touched and proued before. And when 
 the fubitdts do line vvel, and profpcroufly, are 
 defended and maynteyned in peace, fafcie, and 
 ■ vvcalth,when iuftice is done equally to al men, 
 the wicked panif hed, and the good aduanced 
 and rewarded; when God is honourcd,and true 
 i Ff lehgioa 
 I I 
 
100 A Conference t0uchkg fuccefm 
 religion niainteyncd , and vertue promoted^ 
 this is that which importeih the rcalmc & fub- 
 K<$cs and not where or invvhat contryethc 
 prince and his officers were borne,or of what 
 lytic im- nation language, or kynred they be« For that^ 
 ^"fub prince of what linage or kynred foeucr^ 
 
 icft of yet after he is once eftabhfhed in his dignity, 
 vvhat the common fubic6l| can haue no more con- 
 hu"go^ uerfation with him, nor receaue any more per- 
 V^cinouf fonalbenefiteofhim, then if he were a meere 
 feelgood, ftraingcr, except only by thofc coromo and pu-. 
 bliquc efFc(5ls of his gouerment,before mention 
 jicd,fotthat fofooneas he is placed in his di- 
 gnity, he becommeih aftrangerto me, and if 
 he gouerne cuel and afflict me, litle auayleth it 
 tome,vvheiherhebcofmy blood and country 
 or no,and I may fay as the people of Ifrael , in 
 like cafe faid vnioRoboam, who for that he 
 was king Dauids nephew , and of thehou(e 
 of Ifai , thoughte his ftate alTured , for that 
 he was their Lord and natural prince , and 
 fo might prefle and afflift them at his pleafurer 
 3.Kc« 12^"^ ^^^y anfwered him phinly.Qtu nobis pars in 
 DauidyVel qud. hdredttas injilto Ipi,wHat part haue 
 we in Dauid, or V vhat inheritance haue we in 
 the fonne of Ifai , and fo they left him, and ra- 
 ther chofe to be vnder leroboam a ftranger,and 
 his feruant , then vnder him* 
 
 This then is the firft pointe, which thefe men 
 dodemaundjtowit, that we confider equally 
 and according to reafoUjWifdome^and truih,& 
 without al partial affedion, where 6c by who 
 
 and 
 
Uthecfclifne. Vart il Cap. tX* %oi 
 itndby what gouermcntvvc arelikcft to rc^ 
 ceaue^and enioy the good and happie cfFedls a 
 bouc mentioned, of profperitic to the fubie(Jb 
 for that without al doubt (fay they) that go- 
 uerment is to be deemed bcft , and that fubie- 
 ftion happieft, where thofc benifites arcmoft 
 cnioyedjlct the prince or gouernour be of what 
 nation or linage foeuer. And on the other fide, ^^^^^ 
 that muft needs be the vvoorft gouermet vnto but the 
 me, where Ifhal reape feweft and P^rticipat^^^^^^^ 
 leaft of thofe cfFe<5ls, be the prince neuer foimpo*. 
 much my country inaorkinfman, and though'^* 
 he were borne in the fame citie , towne, or 
 houfe,yea in the fame belly with me. As for ex- 
 ample thofe men that liued ("fay they)in Spaint 
 v»der king Peter the cruel, or in Ingland vnder 
 king Richard the third , commonly called the 
 ty rant^what did it auay Ic them,that thofe prin- 
 ces were of their ownc country or blood, (eing 
 they did that vnto them, which a ftraingerexampieab 
 though neuer fo barbarous»would fcarfe haue 
 done? As in like manner, al tho(c noble hou- 
 fes before metioned in our country, of the dela 
 fooles, StafFords-Plantagenets, and others dc- 
 ftroyed by king Henry the eight, what auay led 
 them, that the faid king was not only theic 
 country man, but alfo their neare kinfman^ 
 I what profit or commodity was it vnto Tho* 
 tnas of woodftock, dukcofGlocefter , that he 
 liued vnder a king that was his nephew,to wit, 
 king Richard the fecond,or to Gcorgcduke o£^ 
 Ciarence^inking £dwAr4rhe fourthes tyme^ 
 
 Ff a (Eas 
 
ioi A Cdnfereiicefdnchdni fuccefsk^ 
 thiac the faid king was his bwne brother, when 
 both of them were purfued jdifgraced, and put 
 todeachby them j and loft their hues, landes, 
 dignitieSjgoodly po(Ieffions,ftately tnanners,*: 
 gorgeous houfcsivvith their wiueSj children^& 
 al other fehcities of this world, which perhaps 
 vndcr a ftrainge prince , they might hauc cn- 
 ioycd many a fay re day and yearc. 
 
 This is that then which thefe nietido firft 
 Who are require^ to wilt that al fanlle and fonde opini6 
 Sttai^^crs of the vulgar peopIe,beaparted in this matter^ 
 from truth and fubftancc,as alfo fay they, vvc 
 ought to defire and determine who are pro- 
 perly ftraingers, or forrainers , feing that fomc 
 do take forftraingers and foray ners, al thofc 
 that are not of the fame dominion and gouer- 
 jnente^thoughotherwifethey be of the fame 
 nation,and language^ according as thofeoiheif 
 jnen thatarcenimyestoftraingers, faide alitlc 
 before (if you remember) that the princes of 
 the houfc of Guy fe,and their kynred are taken 
 for ftraingersin france, by them that by that 
 nieanes , would make them odious to the peo-i 
 ple,for that their anceftors intytties paftcamc 
 outofLoraync^ which is aprouince ioyning 
 hard vppon france,of the fame nation,laguage^ 
 and manners, but only vnder an other prince. 
 And fo I my felfe noted in my traueling 
 throughe Italic, that the Floratines are hated Sc 
 called ftraingers in Siena, vvhcre they gouerne^. 
 albeit the one ftate be not 30. myles from the 
 cther^ and both of one nation language man- 
 
 ncr% 
 
totbecrol^ne. Vatt. i. CaK IX. 2©j 
 nets and education. And on the contrary fide, 
 vvc f h^l fe , that rome of different language & 
 nation do hold ihemfclues for country men, ai ' 
 for example, the Bifcayns in Spaine, do not 
 hold the CaftiHans for ftraingers , but are con- 
 tented to be ruled by them, as by their ovine 
 countrymen, albeit they be a different nation 
 and hauc different language aud manners, and 
 the fame I do note in the Britaynes and Nor- 
 mans towards the French , in the welfh allo^ 
 towards the Inglifh,vvho are aditferent people 
 and ofdifFerent language, and yet are they g'o-^ 
 uerned peaceably by the Inglil'h, & the Inglif K 
 againedoaccoraptthemfor their country me, 
 as may appeare by that, when king Henry the^ 
 feuenthjcame tobekingoflngiand , I do not' 
 finde,any refiftance made a^ainft him by th** 
 Inglifhy for thatrefpet^e that he vvas ofthaCt^ 
 nation^aseuidently he vvasby his fathers fide^' 
 that was of the Tidders of wales, fo as this- 
 pointe alfo who be ftraingers ahd who be nor 
 feemeth tabea thing that depcndeth much of^ 
 the opinion and affeftion of ea<sh people & na-' 
 tion, the one towards the other. 
 
 And this being fo, thefe men come to treate Dhicrt ^ 
 more particukf ly of the purpofc in hand , and ^dng 
 dofayethatin twoor three manners a nation Vndct 
 may come to be vnder the gouerment of ftrain- 
 gets or forraynersj 6rft as a prouince, that is to 
 iayeas a peece or member of ah other domi^ 
 nion, as Ingland wasintymes part vnder the 
 Romans 9 «ttd^ Ireland is vnder Ingland at 
 
 Ff 3 this 
 
X04 A Cdnfetmi ioufhmg fumfm 
 this day and as the Biitcons are vnder FranreJ 
 and as many (laces of Iralie,be vnder the crow*- 
 sies of Aragon,and Caftile. And this may come 
 to pafle either by Conqueft and force of armes^ 
 ms the Wei f h came to be vndec the IngHf h , and 
 the IngUfh to be vnder the Normans and Da# 
 nes, and as Sicilia and Naples came to be vnder 
 the Spaniards, and as Normandye and Aqui« 
 4ainecameto be vnder the French^ & as aimofl; 
 al the world in old tyme was brought to be 
 vnder the Romans: or oihcrwife the fame may 
 come to pa0e by inheritance, as Aquitaine and 
 Normandie in ty mes paft came to Ingland , 8c 
 as Flanders with the (lates therof came to the 
 hoafeof Auftria, and as Britany to the crownc 
 of France, or els thirdly it may happen by mixe 
 meancs, that is to fay,partly by force and partly 
 by other meaneis of compo(ition» as Millacame 
 to Spaync, and Ireland to Ingland.according n$ 
 the Irifh do hold» and fo Portugal hath in our 
 dayes come to the king of Spaine , for that 
 beddes his pretence and right of inheritance^ 
 he vfed ^ito force of arme$ for getting the 
 fame. 
 
 Yob^m. Ofalthe(e three vvayes then euidenc it is^ 
 dccSwan- j^j^j Conqueft is the hardeft, and moft preiudi- 
 I^u4. cialtothefubie^s, for that thearCial ftandeth 
 at the wil and clemency of the Conqueror, 
 whom either anger or feare,or ielofic of his af- 
 furance^ may often driue to hold a hard hand 
 ouerthe conquered , at lead wife for a tyme, 
 y9ti]ihi$e(Ute be better (eiUdp to that Imar- 
 
 uaile, 
 
to thi erol^ne. Tart i. Cap. IX. to/ 
 oailc not though no people or country conj- • 
 nionly would willingly be conquered, but ycc 
 pollicyc alfo reacherh fuch a Coqucror, what- 
 (beucrhebe, that as on the one fide, it beha- 
 ueth him to be watchful &(b to fortyfic him* 
 felfe, asthevnquietcando him nohurt^fo on 
 the other fidcjis it necelTaric by the fame rule of 
 pollicie to vfe alfauourand fw^ete meancs to 
 content & gayne thofc that be or may be made 
 quiet , for better eftablifhing of hisftate,euc- 
 as a Phidtion after a vehement purgation, doth 
 minifter leniciues and fofte medicines , to 
 calme and appeafe the good humors left, and 
 toftrenghten the whole body againe that it 
 may hold out* 
 
 This we fee to be true,not only by reafon of HowCS- 
 ftateandpollicy^ as hath binfaid, but alfo by ^^J^'J^^ 
 experience of al countries, thathaue bin con-cccd< to- 
 queredin Europ or other where, if the conti- 
 nual refilling and reuolting of thofe that arc red, 
 conquered, do not caufe a contrary courfe in 
 the Conqueror, as it did in the conqueft of the 
 Danes and Normands vppon the Inglif h , and 
 in the conqueft of the Inglifh vppon the Bri* 
 tifh otWelfh, where the often ryfingof them 
 that were oucrcome,enforGed the vanquif hers 
 to be much more cruel and rigoroufc the other 
 V vifc they would haue bin, for al our ftories do 
 teftific, that king Sweno the Dane and muchfoiydoc 
 more his fonne,lcingCanutus, as alfo William ^^1^^^* 
 conqueror,had a great defirc after their vicStp- Angli«J^ 
 ric$i to haue appcafcd, and made much of the 
 Ff4 Inglfh 
 
%o6 A Conference toufhlng [uccefsion 
 Inglifh nation,but that they vveic neuer quiet 
 vnderthemjandfoin hkeraanner the Inglifh 
 kings ofcentymes gauc their daughters in mar- 
 riage to the princes of Wales, and many priui- 
 leges to that people, therby to gay ne them, but 
 that their continual reuolting cauftd tnuch fp.- 
 ucrity and bloodfhed to be vfed , and the like 
 feueriiy did it caufe oftentimes in the very Ro- 
 mans towards the fajd Pritayncs conquered. 
 dcmScie But where the people vanquifhed were con- 
 ^omans ^^^^^^ be quiet andfubmit themfelues, iheic 
 / ihcfaid Romans vfed al fauour and modera- 
 tio,fD as it is written of them in the firft bookc 
 lib. I Machabeis. Et audiuit lucUs nonicn Romamrum^ 
 Kachab. quiafuntptctttesvmbuSj & acqmcfcunt ad omnU 
 quA poftulantur ah eis, that is: And ludas Macha- 
 beus hard the name and fame of the Romans^ 
 howthey were potent in ftrenghr^ and yet fo 
 gentle ^ as they yeilded to al that was demaun- 
 dedat their handes. 
 
 And finnllytheir goucrment was foiuft^ c5- 
 fideratjfweetearid iTipdcft, vppon al forraync 
 nations, which they had conquered > as it alu- 
 reddiueis nations to defire to be vn^Icr them, 
 and tp be ridd of their owne natural kinges, as 
 of thcfubiedles of Antiochus,and Methridates 
 kings of Afia and of Pontus, we do reade , and 
 fome other princes alfp therby to gratifie their 
 fubicdls^ did nominate the Roman Empire^for 
 their fqccelTb!:, as did Jci^^g Artalus king of Per- 
 gamus,and Ptolomie of^gypt,and others, and 
 it is the cpmmon opinion of krned men that 
 
tothecYoT^ne, Tart. i. Cap. IX. 207 
 
 ihe world was neucr more happdic goucrncd, 
 thenvnder the Romans, and yet were thty 
 ftiangers tomoftof their fubieds, ouer which 
 ihcy gouerned,and vnto whom they were moll 
 ftrangerSjthacis tofaly, vntofuchas were fur- 
 iheft of from them, to thofe dyd they vfe aU 
 vvayes mod fauoures,and gaue them mofl: pri- 
 uilcges, asbothe wifdome and reafon of ftatc 
 did requirc,for thar thofe people had moll abii- 
 lity to rife againfl: them, and to rebell, (o as this 
 circumftanceofb^ingftrangcrs , hurted them 
 liothing,but rather profited them much. ^^^^ 
 
 The like rule of pollicy and of ilatc, hauc al mo^I^ 
 great Monarchies vfedeuerfince, thatistofay, uourcdui 
 to fhew moft fauourto fuch fubieds, as be gou^ 
 moft ftraingers, andfardeft from them, and on meat*, 
 thecontrary fide,ifany beto be prc(Ied more . 
 then others, to preffe and burthen them moft, 
 i that be mofl: natural and neereft home, &moIt 
 I vnder and in fubie(5bion,and fureft to obey, and 
 i thisiseuidently feene, felt, and practifed byal 
 j the great ftates this day of the world, fo as it ca- 
 ! not be denyed.For if we looke but into France, 
 i we fhal finde that the ftates of Gafcony andcafcoy^ 
 ! Guyne, which are furdeft of from the court, & "^^^^^ 
 were once ftragets & gotten by force, from the 
 I Inglif h, do pay far lelTe tributes at this dayeto 
 the French jcinge then thofe that be of the lie 
 of francfSJ it fclfejand are properly flench, and in 
 like manner, the Britons, which came to that^"^*^"^ 
 crowne by marriage,and were old enimies, "do 
 ()^y much idle jet then the Gafcoy ns, and in a 
 Ff / manner 
 
'io8 A Confer me touching fuect^on 
 manner do paye nothing at al, and the Nor-i 
 mans do pay fome what more then any of the 
 two, fo^: that they do lye fotnwhat neerer to 
 Parris,and therhy arc mote in fnbieftion to the 
 Sftti4it]u pfittce, though yet they pay lefle then the na- 
 tural Frenchmen. The Candians alfo which is 
 an Hand, a part, and ftandcth vnder the Vcne- 
 tianSjdonotpaythe third part of the irapofi- 
 tions fas by my owne information I lerned 
 when I trauiled Itahe) that do the natural fiib- 
 ietSb of the Venetian ftatc in Itahe. 
 ^tesof ^^^t f hal \ fay of the kingdomes and ftates 
 I^Miie. ofNapleSjSiqilie, and Millan , fubieft to the 
 kingofSpaine,andgoitcn by coiiq^ueft^as hath 
 bin laid,and yet pay they naone penny of tbat 
 ancient great impofitionvfed in Spainc, called 
 the AlcaudU which is the tenth penny of al 
 that is bought and (bid, nor are they fubiedt to 
 thelnquifiiionof Spaine (at leaft Naples and 
 Mill^n ) nor to many other dutyes tributt 
 and impofitions which the natural fpaniard is 
 fubie£t vnto, nor is their any law or cdidt made 
 \ in Spaine that holdeth in thofc countries , ex- 
 * " ccpt it be allowed ratified and confirmed hf 
 thofe dates themfelues, nor may any of their 
 oldpriuilegesbeinfiinged, but by their owne 
 confents,and when the king requircthany ex- 
 traordinary fubfides in Spaine ) they beare na 
 parttherof. Whervppon thefe men doafkcj^ 
 vvbat it hurteth thefe ilates, that they ar e dra- 
 pers, or vnder ftcaingers,or what priueledge is 
 ti tQ (he fpaniard at hometthat he iS|Only vndet 
 
 hishonij 
 
tdtbeefdH^ne. Part i. Cap. IX. loj 
 
 Kisfaom-borne king, ifhereceaue leife beni« 
 fits by that, then doth the (Irainger. 
 
 And is not the likealfo vfed by the ftatc ofrke eem^ 
 Ingland towards Ireland, are not the ^^^^^'^^{lifhvnt' 
 and indulgences vfed towardes the ciuil Irifhdcrthe 
 that Hue in peace much more then to the In-^"^^^^^* 
 glif h themfelucs in Inglad? For firft,thcii' raxes 
 and payments be much Icfle , the lawes of In* 
 gland by nd them not exceptcthey be allowed 
 and receaued by their ownc parlament in he- 
 land. For matters of religion, they are preffed 
 muchlefle then home-borne fubie^ls, albeit 
 their afFedtions to the Roman religion, be 
 knowne to be muchmorevniuerfal, then it is 
 in Ingland. In al criminal afFayres&'punirhing 
 ofdehcftes, the manner of proceeding againft 
 the Irif h is much more remiflc milde & getle, 
 then with the fubiedtsoflngland, (b as their 
 being ftrangers^femeth rather a priuilege then 
 a hindrance vnto them. 
 
 But in no other country is this thing more of tfce^ 
 cuidently to be confidered,then in the ft^tesof ^^J^^ 
 Flanders & low countryes which by inheritSce 
 (as hath bin faid )came to be vnder foray nc 
 gouermet but fo much to their good & aduan^ 
 cement (& that in a very fewyeares) aslcarfe is 
 credible, except to him that vnderftadeth their 
 former ftatc , vvhc they were vnder their horn- 
 borne princes, & docoparc it with that which 
 afterthey came vnto, vnder the houfe of Aiy- 
 ftria,vnited vnto the crowne of Spainc. 
 
 For before^ for many hundreth yeates^a matt 
 
 fhal 
 
% I o A Confemee touching fucufsion 
 fhal read nothing almoft, in their ftoryes , bur 
 Warr, fedirion, and blood fhed among them- 
 felu€s,and this cithcr^one ftatc whiih ^n oihei* 
 before they were vnited together, al vnder one 
 prince , or els with the kingdome of France, 
 of whom in thofedayes ihcy depended, or els 
 (and this mod of al) agaynft their ownePrin-^ 
 CCS, of whom fome haue bin fo fearce and 
 cruel vnto them y as they haue fhed infinite 
 quantity of their blood, and among others , I 
 Halaan " rcad oftheirCountc Luys, that in one day, he 
 lib.i8.att. put to deathyfiue hundred of them by fentence 
 of iuftice in Bruxelles, and an other day withia 
 the fame yearc, hecaufed abouta thoufand to 
 be burned todeathinachuihof thetowncof 
 Neuel , befides infinite others whom indiuers 
 battailesand fkirimfhes he flew, fo as often 
 tymes the country lay ialmoft defolate,through 
 their domeftical affli(5lions. 
 cfpSn'^^ But nowfincethe tyme that the ftates ca-. 
 dmvn. me to be vnder Phillip the firft, Archduke of 
 hovvfe of^^^"^** and after king of Spayne, and fo re 
 Atiftiia. may ned vnder his fonne Charles the Emperor^ 
 and his nephew Phillip the fecond, that now 
 liueth y vntil the late troubles and rebellions 
 (which was about the fpacc of fifty yeares that 
 they fo continued in peace before their rebeU 
 Ijojit is almoft , incredible how thofe ftates in- 
 cfard net ^^^^^^^ wealch,peace,and dignitic^fo that as 
 ladcfcTit.Quycciardin the Italian hiftoriographer no* 
 deUi r ^^^^ ' dcfcription of thofe country es, thc^ 
 baflir* whole wealth andrichcs of the world feemed 
 
 to flow 
 
Uthecrbyine. P^f. i. Cap. IX. ut 
 to flow thither , and I my felfe can remember 
 to hauc fcene fuch exceding abundance in vc* 
 ry ordinairy men of this country, both for 
 their dyet,apparrelj furniture ofhoufe and the 
 like,as was wonder ful,befides that for their no- 
 bilitic they were al great Princes, for that eucry 
 one had hisprouinceorgceac towneingouer- 
 mcnt,v\hich ihey ruled whiih that pompe and 
 honor, as if they had bin abfolute lordes them- 
 fclues, by reafon of the farrdiftanceof their 
 fupreme Prince , and fo they were receaued 
 Whithpubhque honor of alcitties and townes 
 Sctheir charges borne wherefoeuer they palled, 
 as fuch high eftates are wont to be. 
 
 And albeit they had euer commonly a drain. 
 ger for fupreme gouernoramongrhem vnderthcFic. 
 their kinge,which bare the name to be aboue JJjj^^ 
 them, yet did he in deed nothing but as they 
 would haue him , and this partly for that his 
 ^ time of gouerment being but fhort,he alwaies 
 j attended principally to gect the goodwillesof 
 j the people , and to hold them contented , and 
 I therby to be grat-ful to his king at his returnc 
 1 home, and partly alfo for thatjf he fhould 
 I attempt to do any thing againft their myndes 
 I and hVing , they made reply by their prc- 
 i fident and C hancelor andother of their ownc 
 ' Councelers,re(iding for the Flemifh nation in 
 the court of Spaync ( for this nation hath aU 
 Waies a particulercouncel ther about the king 
 
 I as al other foray ne nations alfo haue,thatarc 
 fader him jand by this raeancs they abteyned 
 lightly 
 
1 1 3t A Conference lomtnng fuecefm 
 lightly what they would , and brought the g(f^ 
 uernor to what they pleafed,(b as in efFedt they 
 were abfolute kings in themfelues, & wrought 
 their willes in eacry thing , & tliis in that ty mc 
 while the country was quicr. 
 The in- But now fincc iheif rcoolt which hath in- 
 YftKo^^ dured almofc thcfc foufeor fiue and tw^enty 
 offenders yearcs^ what hath lucceded , farely their hath 
 J^J*^ not a quarter Co many bin punifhed , or put 
 to death in al thele Jreares by order of luftice of 
 their king abreni,as before I haue f hewed that 
 there were in one day, by their owne earles and 
 dukes , when they were prefent , & that vppoa 
 far leflc occafion and caufe giuen , then are 
 / thcfcjfor if we take aWay the two noble men 
 \- Egmond and Home, put to death at the be- 
 ^ ginning of thefeFlemifh troobles by the duke 
 of Alua ( for which fome men fay alio that he 
 had no thankc afterward by the king ) no man 
 of importance hath bin fince executcd,and the 
 chcefeft townes that haue binandareagaynll 
 the king in Holland and Zeland , are lufFred 
 vntil this day , to traffique freely into Spayne, 
 and yet we know that for a little beginning of 
 9> certayne tumult this laft ycnsie pad in Spayne, 
 it felfc g to wit in the kingdofhc of Aragon, 
 many headed haue bin ftroken of, and much 
 iufticc done, where of then rifeth this difFerccc 
 jio doubt for that the Flemmings are ftrain- 
 gersi^ far of^and the other neere at home & 
 mtur al borne,(oas thiscircnmflancc? of being 
 a ftranger and dwelling far of doth tliem great 
 
 plcafure. 
 
mhetroJtfne. Tart i.' Cap. IX. iij 
 
 plcafurc , and giacth them piiuilegc abouc the 
 homborne fubicds. 
 
 The hke I might fhcwfor this matter of jhtspai. 
 punifhmcnt in the fore faid dates of ftalie, ^^^f^ 
 where if a mSdo compare the n;jmbcr of them Icflc in 
 that were put to death pulled downe, or af 
 Aided b^ order of lufticc, and other wile at the ho»«« 
 commandemcnt of the Prince,in tymc of their 
 owne home-borne kings , with that which 
 hath bin fincc , efpeciaily of the nobility , you 
 f hal not findc one for twenty , and the reafori 
 of this is, for that their owne kings were abfo- 
 lute, andhad togiueaccompt to no man, of 
 their doings, and for that they were men , and 
 had their pafljons and emulations with the 
 nobilitie^and might put the fame in c^cecutioii 
 without accompt or controlment, they pul- 
 j led downc & fct vp at their pleafure , and made 
 I oftentymes but a ieftofnoblcmens liues and 
 ! dcathes,buinowthefc that are gouernours& 
 i viccroyes for a forraine prince, fitft they haue 
 ! not fo great authority or comi(Iion,as to touch 
 any fuch principal perfons liues , whithoiic 
 giuing relation therof , firft vnto i heir king & 
 councel , and receauc againe particuler order 
 for the fame,and then they k nowing that after do giuc 
 their three yeares gouermct is ended^ihty muft^^^^jj^^ 
 be priuate men againe, and ftay their 40. daycs goucr-^ 
 as (ubiedsvnder the next new gouernour, to°^^ 
 giue a reconning of their doings againft al that 
 l hal accufe them ( which in ihefccountryes 
 they call to make their rciidence ) they take 
 
 heed^ 
 
J 1 4 A Conference touching fuccejfion 
 hecdc what they doc , and whom they offend^ 
 fo as the condition of nobiUty, is far different 
 vnderfuchafl:raingegouerment,as this is ter^ 
 ined,chen vndera natural Prince of their ownc 
 con ntry which opprcflcth them at his plcafurCi 
 
 flau^tcr draw necr homward , if we wil 
 
 ' ©fnobuu examine and confiderer what hath palled ia 
 
 fiani!'*" Inglandin this point of mallacring our nobi- 
 lity , by our domeftical Princes, it is a matter 
 lamentable , for it may fceme that they hauc 
 (crued ofcentymes for our Princes to make 
 difport&toplaywhith their heades. And tQ 
 letpaflealthofcjwhich in tyme of warres,rc- 
 foellions, & comotions, haue bin cut of^ which 
 occafions may feeme more iuftifiable,! do read 
 alfo in our chronicles that , a Safigue freddo , as 
 the Italian fayth, that is to fay , in tyme of 
 peace and by execution of iuftice, at thePrin- 
 ces appoyntment , thefe noblemen following 
 andknyghts by name, were put to death, with 
 in the (pace of one fine yeares inking Henry 
 the fourth his dayes. The duke of Excefter^ 
 the duke of Surrey, the Archbif hopofYorke, 
 the earles of Salif bury , of Glocefter , of 
 Worccfterand of Huntington, The earle mo\V- 
 bray carle marfhal. The Baron of Kindertoa 
 S.Roger Clarington,baftard fonne of Edward 
 the black Prince. S.Thomas Blunt, S.Barnard 
 Rocas, S. Richard Vernon. And agayne foonc 
 aftcrvnder king Edward the fourth, in almoft 
 whiih in as litlcfpace.The dukes of Somerfer, 
 and of Exc^fter, The eailw of Deuonf hire , of 
 
 Oxford 
 
tothecrtfr^pnt. Tart. 2. Cap, IX. xif 
 
 Oxford , and of Keyns. The Lord Rofle, the 
 Lord Molyns, S.Thcmas Tudingham, S.Phil, 
 lip Wencvvorth, S.Thomas fyndam, and many 
 others afterward, ( for this was but at the be- 
 ginning of bis reignc (which number of nobi- 
 lity if a man ( hould haue feenethem aliue to- 
 gctherwith their traynes, before they had bin 
 put downe, he would haue faid they had bin a 
 very goodly company , & pitiful that fo many 
 ofourowne nobilitie f hould be brought by 
 our own Princes to fuch confufion. 
 
 Butyet this matter may feemc perhapps the Exccntiol 
 lelTe maruelous , and more excufable , vnder 
 thofe two kings , for that troobles and conten- ry the-** 
 tionshad pafled a little before in the realme^^^S^** 
 about the fucceffion , and heervppon fo many 
 ofthe nobility might be cut of, but let vs fee 
 then what enfued afterwards, when thinges 
 were eftablifhed and al doubt of contention 
 about the fucceflion taken away, as in king 
 Henry the eight his dayes it was , and yet do I 
 finderegiftred in our chronicles tbefeperfons 
 ' following either made away cutt of, or put 
 I downe , by the faid king^to wit, two Queenes 
 j Anne and Catherin , Three Cardinales put 
 1 downe and difgraced Woiry,Poole,and fy f her, 
 ! vvherofthelaftvvas beheddcd, foone after his 
 ' dignity giuen him in Rome, and the fiift was 
 1 arrefted,ihe (econd attaynied of imagined trea- 
 i fons. Thtee dukes put downe, to wit , the no- 
 ble dukes of Buckingham, Suffolk and Nor- 
 ! folke, wherof the laft loft his lands dignities 
 I Gg • and 
 
11 6 A CmfemcetBUchkg fuccefm 
 and libertie only ,ibe former two both Landcs 
 & Hues, A marques with two carles beheaded, 
 Dcubnl'hire , k) ldare,and Surray, two Coun- 
 uflescondenincdjtodye, Deuonfhire and Sa- 
 lif.bu ry, and the latter executed: Lordes many, 
 as the Lorde Datcy , the Lorde Hufly , the 
 Lorde Montagne, the Lorde Leonard Gray, 
 the Lord Dacresof the fouth, theLoidCrom- 
 Wel, and fix or feuen Abbots. Kinghtcs alfo in 
 great number, as fine in one day, with the 
 Lords Hully , and Darcy , and fiue in an other 
 day , with the eaile ol kildare whofe vncles they 
 were, and befidcs thera^ S.Thomas Moore , S* 
 Rice Griffith, S.Edward Neuel, S.Iohn Ncucl, 
 S. Nicholas Carew , S. Adrian fortcfcue , and 
 diaers other kmghts of great accompt & then 
 gentlemen almoft without end. 
 Kmg^Ed- ^^^^^ within the fpacc of lo.yeares, 
 
 ward and of his rcignc, and in the ly me of peace , and yf 
 Q|?«"c looke vppon butfowcr or fiueye^es to- 
 gether of the reigne of this mans children , wc 
 f hal fee ilie like courfe continued, for we fhal 
 (ec put to death within the (pace of foiire yea- 
 rcs/al th^fe following by name. The duke of 
 Somerfet jthe duke of Suffolk ,the duke of 
 Northumberland, and the L. Admiral of In- 
 gland, S. Miles Partrigc,S.Raphc Vane , S. Mi- 
 chel Stanhope, S.Thomas Arondel, S. lohn 
 GatcSjS. Thomas Palmer kinghtes,with diners 
 other gentlemen of there retincw , and al thcfe 
 by natura1,domeftical,and hoiuborne Princes, 
 whcicas 1 dare to aduenturc ^ the greaiefc 
 
 wager 
 
to the troT^ne. Vart z. C A f. I X. iiy 
 
 wageithatlcan make that you fhal notfindc 
 fo many put to death of thcnobihry , by any 
 ftrainge Prince,ftate, or common wealth chri- 
 ftian , in any forraynedominion that they pod 
 fcfle, in many ages together , and thereafon 
 therof is euident, by that I faid before , neither 
 weteirpollicy or wifdome , nor could thecau- 
 fes be fo often , nor ordinarily giuen by the no- 
 bility to a Prince that were abfent from them 
 to vfe fuchefeueritie, fo as by this it may alfi> 
 appeare,ihat to be vnder a forraine gouerment 
 euen in the woorft kinde therof, that can be 
 deuifed , which is to be asa prouince or peecc 
 of an other kingdome , and to come vnder it by 
 very conqiieft it felfe, is not fo dangerous a 
 matter, as at thefiift fhew itmayfeeme', and 
 much lefTetobevnder forraine gouerment, by 
 other fweeter meanes offucceffion, or compo- 
 fition,as the prefent cafe of Inglandfeemeth ta 
 import, in refpeft of ihofe forainc Princes 
 which do pretcnde to the fucceflion therof. 
 
 And this is not only f hewed and declared 
 by the ftate and condition of Flanders , before happciy 
 their tumulres,but in hke manner it is feene,by ^1 ^oytay- 
 
 the prefent ftate of Britanie,Normandie,Aqui-ccs/"^* 
 taine, Prouence, and other dukedomes and 
 countries in France , that were wont tohauc 
 their owne particuler Princes , and now arc 
 much more commodioully, vnder the crownc 
 of France. The likcisfcencby the ftar<fs of 
 Naples, Millan, Sicilie, Sardinia & other parts 
 and countryes of Italic, which were wont to be 
 
 Cg a vndcc 
 
zi 8 A Conference tonchantfucce^ston 
 vndcr kings and Princes of their owne, and 
 now are vnder the crownes of Aragon and 
 Caftile, with infinite oddes of peacc^ reft, fecu- 
 ricy , and welth , then they were before when 
 they had domdlvcal Princes,and fb themfelues 
 do confefle , I meane the wife & dif-paffionatc 
 among them, (for of the vulgar in this cafe 
 noaccompt istobemadejand if they fhould 
 deny it, yet the thing fpeaketh it felfe , and the 
 publiquc ftories of their countryes would 
 conuince them , wherin it is to be read , what 
 Phalaris, what Dionifius,& other homebomc 
 tyrants, Sicilieffor example j hath had and 
 futfred , and what infinite crucltie they and 
 diners others of, their owne gouernours,hauc 
 cxercifed vppon them, as alfo what continuall 
 turmoyles there were inihccittie ofNaples& 
 in all that kingdomc for many yeares toge- 
 ther,afteritfeIfromthegouermenr,firft of the 
 Roman Empire,and then of the Grecian, vntil 
 it came to the crowne of Aragon , I meanc 
 betweene their owne domeftical kings, now 
 of the bloode of Italians^now of the Normans, 
 Old affl?. now of the Hungarians , & now of the french, 
 Napies^L (forofal thcfc lines, their haue reigned among 
 Millan. them J and the realroe was a perpetual pray to 
 fouldiars,and the very like may be faid of Mil- 
 Jan, after their fal from the Roman Empire, 
 (vnder which they liued quiet & profperouflyj 
 vntil they came againc to be vnder the crowne 
 of Spayne,ihcy parted infinite tribulations,firft 
 by the contention of their common people 
 
 againft 
 
tothem>ne. Tart. i. Cap. IX. 115 
 
 •gainft their nobility , and then by the bloody 
 failing out of their chiefe families^theonc a- 
 gainft the other, to wit ihc Funan0'tfconti,Mar^ 
 (clliyMirabelliyCaJltltenty^nd sforz.i{which familic 
 laftofalpreuayled) he! fay that fhalremem- 
 ter this , and then behold the prelent ftatc 
 with the quiet peace, faftie , and riches wherin 
 they now Hue, wil eafely confcHe , that they 
 haue changed for the better, though they be 
 vnder forraine goucrmcnt, and thus much of . 
 thispointe. 
 
 Their remayncth to fpeake a woord or two vvhethet 
 about thefecond part of the qu^ftion , before fjjf[^^^ 
 propofed and included partly in this which al- Prince be 
 redy hath bin treated , to wit, whether it be 
 better to be vnder a little or great king, which 
 queftion though it may be decided in parte by 
 that which before hath bin alleaged , about 
 being vnder a forraine Prince , yet more parti- 
 j culerly to make the fame playne^ thefe men do 
 1 fay e, that the reafons be many and euident to 
 proue, that the fubiedlion to a great & mightic 
 monarch , is far better: firft for that he is beft 
 able to defend and protect: his fubiedls, and 
 fecondly for that he hath lead need ordinarily 
 I to pill andpole them , for that a little king, be 
 i he neuer fo meane » 'yet mufl: he kepe the ftatc 
 I of a king,and his fubiecfts muft may nteyne the 
 I fame, and if they be but few, the greater vvil 
 I thebarthenbe ofeuery onein particuler , and 
 
 I thirdly, for that a great and potent Prince,hath 
 more to beftow vppon his fubie<5i:s for reward 
 Gg 5 ofvertuc 
 
no A Ccnferme touching fucccfton 
 of vertue and valourj rhen hath a poore Prince, 
 and feing that cuery particuler fubied , borne 
 within his Princes dominions, is capable of al 
 the preferments which his Princes ftate or 
 Jkingdome do yeeld , if he be worthy of the 
 fame, it is a gieatprcrogatiue(ray thefe menjto 
 be borne vnder a potent Prince , that hath 
 iDuch to giue ^ which they declare by this ex- 
 ample following. 
 V ^to* ^ man that is borne in the citie of Genua 
 fhevv thcor Geneua/^foi both are ciryes and ftates withia 
 d^^ta% ^hemrelues(let him be of what abihty or wor- 
 thines (oeuer , yet can he hope for no more 
 preferment, then that common wealth and 
 ftate can giue, and if their fhould be many 
 vvoirhy men borne their at one tyme , then 
 Were this his condition vvoorfe, for then muft 
 be part alfo with other men, though their 
 Were not fnfficicnt for himfelfe , and the moft 
 he could afpirevnto, if he vvereanecclefiafti- 
 cal man, were the greatcft benefice within that 
 ftatejnnd on the other fide,if he were a tempo- 
 ral man, he could not hope for much, for that 
 the ftate hath it not to bsftow, but an other 
 that is borne vnder a great monarch , as is the 
 king of France or Spayne , in thefe ourdayes, 
 that hath fo many great bifhoprickes (for ex* 
 ample fake) and other fpiritual lyuings to be- 
 ftc^w vppon ahe cleargie , and fo many high 
 gouermenrs and employments , both of vvarr 
 and peace , to giue vnto temporal men that 
 caadefeiuctheiame; this man (I fayjhath a 
 
 great 
 
to thecrd^ne. Tart i. C a p. IX. ii i 
 great aduantage of the orher,in refped of pre- 
 fcrmcncat this day , but much more was it in 
 old ty mc, to be borne vnder the Roma Empire, 
 when ithad the preferments of al the world 
 to beftow, for that eucry fiibiefttherof , was 
 capable of al the (aid prefcrmeats, fo far fourth 
 as he could makehimlelfvvorthy, and deferuc 
 the fame. For better explicatio of which point 
 yt t , I haue thought good to cite in this place, 
 the woordes of a certaine learned kinght> that 
 iaourdayes hath written the hues of al thc^^^j'j^ 
 Roman Emperors,and in the life of one ofvit.dc-^ 
 them, that was an excellent gouernour, na-^"p^J" 
 med Antoninus Pius the iaid kinght hath this 
 difcourfe enfuinge. 
 
 Their was in this mans gouermentCfaid he) „ 
 great contentment and ioye on al hands , great 
 peace and quietnes , and very great iuftice , and 
 truly it is a thing woorthy in this place to be 
 conlideredjwhat vvas the humane power andJhcRomS 
 how infinite the forces of the Roman Empire S^"""^^^ 
 at this day, and how great was the liberties* 
 quietnes , fecuritie , welth and contentment of 
 the fubiedts that liued vnder thatgouerment, 
 when good Princes had the menagingetherof, *> 
 as was this Antoninus and his fonne Aurelius, 
 : that followed him, and as were Adrian,Traian 3> 
 • and diuers others. Wl^at a thingwas ittofec'' 
 their CQUftes frequented freely , by al the noble 
 valiant and lernedmen of the world, to fee the '> 
 [ vnionand frendJy dealing of different nations 
 together , when al ferued one Prince ^ fo as sl^> 
 
 Gg 4 man 
 
 V 
 
ill A Conference touching fuccefsion 
 »> man might haue gone ouer the whole world, 
 j>or moft and befte partes therof , with al fc* 
 V curity , and without al Cearc , al nations and 
 j>countreyes being theic frends , neyghbonrs, 
 9) or fubiedks , nether was their neede at that 
 9> tyme of any pafporrs or fafecondaftes, nor 
 9> of fo often change ofcoyne,to trauaile,as nowe 
 9> their is , nether yet were their new lawes euery 
 9> foote,as now be founde in different countryes, 
 j> neither was their danger of enimies, or to be 
 J, taken prifoners, and captiues , nor could any 
 9> malcfaitordo a mifchief in one country and 
 J, flie into an other, ther-byto be free from pu- 
 s/nifhrnent, and he that was borne in the very 
 »,Orcades or furtheft parte of Europe was at 
 99 home thoughe he vvere in Africa,or Afia, & as 
 i> free denizen as if he had bin borne their, mar- 
 chants alfo might pafle at that daye from 
 country to country, with their marchandize, 
 t» without particuler licences or feare of forfeits, 
 and finally the temporal ftare of a fubicdl was 
 vvondcrful happy^ at that ty me. 
 
 Thus far diicourfeth that learned knight, & 
 no doubt but that his difcourfe and confidera- 
 fion is founded in great reafon, and he that 
 vvil leaueatthis day , the many commodities, 
 ofbcing vnderagreatand potent Prince, ^if it 
 lye in hisowne bands to chufe^ for this only 
 circumftancerhat heisnot borne in the fame 
 country wirh him, is a man of fmale iudgment 
 ^nd c.ipacitye in thefc mens opinion, and mea- 
 fureth niactcts of publi(jue vxilicy , with a 
 
 f^lfc 
 
fothecro-r^He, Part. i. Cap. IX. iz| 
 
 faKc vvaight of fond afFedlion, 
 
 And thus much may befayd bfthefirft waye 
 of being vnder ftrangers and forayne gouer- 
 ment, which is that, which vulgai* men da 
 moftabhorrcand inueigh againft,to vvic^ to be 
 vnder a forraine Prince , that liueth abfent and 
 ruleth by his gouernours. 
 
 But befides this,their is an other manner of ^. ^ 
 being vnder a forraine Prince , as when an JvayJ^of , 
 allien Prmce Cometh todwel among vs ^ and Ijcingvn* 
 this by either of two vvayes, to wit, char either nTne^^* 
 this Prince cometh without forces, as did king 
 Stephen, and king Henry the fecond , that 
 were frenchmen , as hath bin faide , and ca me 
 toliueandgouerne in Ingland, but without 
 external forces : and as king Philh'p of Spayne, 
 came afterwards when by marriage of Queene 
 Mary he became king of Ingland : and as the 
 lall king Henry the third of France went into 
 Polonia,by thefreeeledion and inuirationof 
 that nation, and as his brother Monfieur Fran- 
 cis duke of Alenfon^fhould haueentred after- 
 ward to haue bin king of Ingland, if the mar- 
 riage pretended betweene her maieftie and 
 him had gone forward and taken efFeit, as 
 many thought once that it fhould. This I fay 
 is one way, and an other is , that this Prince do 
 bring forces vvith him/or his owne affurance, 
 and thefe cither prefent ^ as the Danif h kings 
 S^eno.CanutuSy KayMus , znd Hardtcanuttu did, 
 iand as after them the Norman Princes alio 
 vfed, I mcanenot only WiUiam Conqueror, 
 Gg J himfcife^ 
 
224 Conference touching fuccefm 
 himfelfe, but alfo his two fonnes Willia Rufus, 
 and Henry the firft, who either by help of the 
 Normans, al ready in Ingland> or by others 
 brought in by ihem afterward , wrought ^theic 
 vvil , or els that this Prince fo entring hauc 
 ibraine forces , foat hand , as he may call and 
 v{e them when he vvil 3 for that they hauenoi 
 fea to pafle, which is the cafe ofrhekingof 
 Scotts>& of both thefe waics thefe men do giuc 
 their fentence diftindtly. 
 A foriay- For as concerning the former way, when a 
 ?^"forraine Prince entercth without any forces^ 
 foots not atal, and with intention to hue among vs,they 
 jP^udt- {^Q^ ^ that their is no danger, nor yet any in- 
 couenience can iuftly be feared: for that in this 
 cafe he fubiecfteth him felfe, rather to the real- 
 me^and nation, then they to him, and if he hue 
 and marry in Ingland , both himfelfe and his 
 children , wil become Inglif h in a little (pace. 
 And for his owneafiurance he muft beinfor- 
 ced to fauour, and chcrif h^and make much of 
 the Inglif h nation , and be liberal gentle , and 
 frendly to al , for gaining their good wiUes and 
 frendfhip. Andinone vety great and impor- 
 tant pointe, his condicion is different , and 
 . better for the Inglif h, thenany Inglil h kings 
 ^jlfj^^^f can be , which is, that he cntreih with indifFe- 
 a for^ync rent mynde towards almen, hach no kynred 
 or alliance within the land, to whom he is 
 boundc, nor enimye againllwhom he mayc 
 be inticed to vfe cruelty, (b as only meiit or de- 
 merit of each ma, muft raoue him to fauour ot 
 
 dibfauour. 
 
Uthtm^ne. Tart 2. Cap. IX. 12 j 
 
 disfauourAvhich is a grcai foundatio ("fay ihcfe 
 roenyofgood and equal gouermcnr. 
 
 Agay nc they fay^rhat in refpeft of the ftare 
 prefent of Ingland,and as now it ftandcth, and jhcmS- 
 forthe publique good nor only of thecom-ncr of 
 , mon fiibie(9-s, bucalR) of the nobility, and'^^r^"* 
 'cfpecially and abo'je oihcrs , of the loglifh more c5. 
 competitors and pretenders that cannot al^^^^^J* 
 fpcede , no way vvercfo commodious^ as this picfcae* 
 to avoid bloodf hed ^to wit^thar fume external 
 Princcof this ryme, fhould be admitted vpponi 
 fuchcompofitions and agreements, as both the 
 realme I hould remayne which her ancient li« 
 berties, and pcrhapps much more then now it 
 cnioyech(Tor fuch Princes commonly & vppon 
 fuch occalions of preferment , would yeeld to 
 much more in thofe cafes then a homborne 
 Prince would ) and the other pretenders at 
 home alfo , fhould remayne whith more fe- 
 curity then they can wel hope to do vnder any 
 Inghfh competitor, if he come to therrovvne, 
 who f halbe continually egged on by bis owne 
 kynrcd , and by the auerfion emulation and 
 hatred, that he hath taken alredy by conten- 
 tion againft the other oppofite houfes, to pul 
 themdowne, and to make them away , and fb 
 we hauefeene it by continqal examples, for 
 many yeares, though nooccafion(^Uy thefc 
 men) hath euer bin offied tofufpedl the fame 
 fo muchas now,ifany one of the home Inglif h 
 blood, be preferred before the reft, and this is 
 fo much as they fay to this fecond kinde of 
 
 being 
 
%i:6 A Conference touching fuecefsion 
 
 firay of ^^^"g vnder forray ne Princes. To the third, 
 being vn- they confeIle,that it ftandeth fubiciSt to much 
 iahic%o- ^^"8^^> and inconueniencc,to admit aforaync 
 ucrmcnt Prince , to Hue among vs , with forces , either 
 prefentorroneere,as that without refiftancc 
 he may call them when helifteth , and of this 
 their needeth no more proofe ( fay thcfe men) 
 then the examples before alleaged of the Danes 
 and Normans, and the mifery and calamity 
 which for many yearee, the Inglif h paffed vn- 
 der them, and further more the reafon heerof 
 is euident , fay thefe men , for firft in this third 
 kindcof admitting aftrainger king,we are de- 
 priucd by his dwelling amongeft vs , of thofc 
 vtilities before mentioned , which Ireland, 
 Flanders, Britanie, Naples, and other ftates, 
 enioy by liuing far of from their Princes,which 
 commodities are^much more Iibertie,and free- 
 dome,lelIe payments^lelle punif hments, more 
 imployments of the nobility and others in go- 
 uerment, and the like. And fecondly, by his 
 comming armed vnto vs , we cannot expe(5k 
 thofe commoditieSjVvhich before I touched in i 
 the fecond kynd of forraine gouerraent, but j 
 rather al the incommodities and inconuenien- \ 
 CCS that are to be found either in domeftical or * 
 foraine gouerments al fl faye)db fall vppon 
 thfs third manner of admitting a ftranger,as . 
 cafily fhalbefcene. 
 
 For firft of al the grcateft incommodities 
 that can be feared of a domeftical Prince , are, 
 pride, crucltie^^partiality, purfuing of fadlions, 
 
 and 
 
tothecYoitne. Tart. i. Cap, IX. 117 
 and particuler hatred, extraordinary aduanfing ^^^^"l^ 
 of his own kynred,preffing,py nching,and ouer ticai go- 
 rigorous punifhing of his people , without 
 feare, for that he is euer fureof hispartie to 
 ftand whith him within the rtalme, and fo 
 hath he the le(Te refped to others , and for that 
 al thtfe inconueniences , and other fuch hke, 
 do grow for the moft part, by the Princes con- 
 tinual prefence among his fubieds, they arc 
 incident alfo to this other, though he be a 
 ftrainger,for that he is alfo to be prefent,and to 
 liue among vs, and fo much the more eafely he 
 may fall into them, then a domeftical Prince, 
 for that he f hal haue both external coucel of a 
 people that hateth vs , to prick him forward in 
 jit, as alfo their external power toaffifthimin 
 ihefame^which two motiues euery domeftical 
 Prince hath not. 
 
 Agayne they fay, that the woorft & greareft incomte- 
 jincommodities of a forraine gouerment , that ^ 
 imay be feared ,are, tyranny and bringing into uermclt! 
 iferuirude , the people ouer who they gouerne, 
 and filling of rherealmcwiih ftraingers, and 
 ideuiding to them, the dignities, riches and pre- 
 ferments of the fame, al which they fay, arc in- 
 bident alfo fay al probability to this third kindc 
 pf forraine gouermet, where the Prince ftrain- 
 ger lyueth prefent and hath forces at hand to 
 (woorke his vvil, and this is the cafe, fay ihey,of 
 the king [of Scotts , who only of any forraine 
 pretender, femeth may iuftly be feared, for 
 thcfe and other realbnsallcaged before , when 
 
 nc talked 
 
2x8 A Conference touching fucccfm 
 
 Wc talked of his pretence to the crowne. 
 
 To conclude theriythefe men are of opinion, 
 fhac of al ihcfe three manners of being vnder tl 
 ftraingcrs, or admitting forraine goueimenrs, 
 this third kynde pt^cuLar as it were to the 
 kingcof Scotfcscafe, is to be only feared, and | 
 noneels, for as for the fecond they fay that it is 
 not only not to be feared , or abhorred > but ra- 
 ther much to be dclyred, for that of al other 
 fortes ^it hath the leafl: inconucnicnccs.and 
 Strang xt\o{i commodiiies, for which caufcs, we read 
 lours de- and fee, that wher kings goe by elcdion, com- 
 faml ac *^^"'y ^''^^y ^^^^ ftraingers, as the Romans and 
 limes, Lacedemonians did often ai the beginning,and 
 after the beginning of the Roman Monar chie, 
 their forraine borne Emperors, were the bcft 
 and muft famous of al the reft ,asTraian and 
 Adrian that were Spaniards, Septimius Seue- 
 tus borne in Africa , Conftanrinc the great na- 
 tural of Ingland, and the like ,and the very 
 woorftthat euer they had, as Caligula , Nero, 
 Hfrliogabolus , Commodus , and iuch other 
 like plagues of ihcweale publique^vvere Ro- 
 mans 5 and in our daycs , and within a few yea- 
 res, we hiue feene that the Polonians , haue 
 chofcn three kings ftraingers , one after an 
 other , the firft Stephen Battorius Prince of 
 Tran(iluania,thefecondHenry of France, and 
 laft of al the Prince of S wccia , that yet liucih, 
 and the ftite of Venetians by way of good pol- 
 lici,hauc made it fora peipecuall Law, that 
 W'hca they hauc warr CO make , and m uft needs 
 
 choofc 
 
tothecrol^ne. Tart i. Cap. IX. 119 
 
 thoofe a general Capcayne , and commit their 
 forces into his handes,hc muft be a ftranger, to 
 ,Wit,fome Prince of Italic, that is out of theic 
 [Qwneftates, heerbyto auoydepartiahty , and 
 fto hauehim the more indifFt rent ^ and equal to 
 them al , which yet fo many prudent men 
 ;vvould neuer agree vppon, if there were not 
 jgreat reafon ofcommodities therin , fo as this 
 ipointisconcluded,thatfuchas fpeake againft 
 jthis fecond kinde of hauing a forrayne Prince, 
 fpeake of padion ^ or inconfideration , or lackc 
 of experience in matters of ftate and common 
 vveahhes. 
 
 As for the firfl; manner, of being vnder forai- 
 nc gouerment , as a member or prouince of an 
 other bigger kingdome, and robe gouerned 
 by a deputic , viceroy or ftrangcgouernour , as 
 Ireland, Flanders, Naples, and other ftares be- 
 fore mentioned be , vvithcertayne and ftable 
 conditions of liberties,and immunities,and by 
 a forme of gouerment agreed vppon on both 
 fides,thefe men do confefle alfo,that their may 
 ;be arguments, reafons, and probabilities allea- 
 iged on both fides, and for both parries 5 but yet 
 Ithat al things confidered and the inconuenien- 
 Ices, hurt es,and dangers before rehearfed , that 
 jlubiecfts do fuffer alfo ofcentymes , at the han- 
 desof their owne natural Princes, thefe men 
 |are of opinion, for thecaufes alredy declared, 
 that the profittes are more and far greater, then 
 the damages or dangers of this kynde of for- 
 rayne gouermet ate, and fo they do anfwere,to 
 
 al the 
 
a } o A Conference tonchtng fuccejfion 
 
 al the reafons and arguments allcagcd in the 
 beginning of this chapter , againft foiraine go- 
 ucrment, that either they are to be vnd^rftood 
 The an. ^^^^ Verified only of the third kinde of forraine 
 ob cfti's B^"^^"^^"^ before declared^ (which thefe mcti 
 a^ahift^^ doconfeile to be dangerous) ot els they arc 
 forraync founded foi the moft parte, in the error and 
 goueimet pj-^j^^j^g ^j^jy jj^e vulgar forte of men, who 
 being once ftirred vp, by the name of ftranger, 
 do confider no furder what reafon or not 
 reafon,ihere is m the matter, and this fay thefe 
 mcn^ought to moue vvifemen litle , for as the 
 common people did ryfe in tumult againft fhc 
 french(forexample)in5/r///4,and againft the 
 Inglifh in France, and againft the Danes in In- 
 glandjfo vppon other occafions,would they do 
 alfo againft their owne countrymen, and often 
 tymes hauefo done , both in Ingland & other J. 
 VI her , when they haue bin offended or when 
 fedirious heades haue ofFred themfelues to 
 leadethem to like tumults, fo that of this they 
 fay litle argument can be made. 
 ArSvvtt The like in cfFedl they do anfwere^ to the ex- 1 
 GrJcian ^^P^^s bcforc alleagcd of the Grecian Philofo- l| 
 Phiiofo- phers and orators 3 that were fb earneft againft . 
 J^^;^/^^^ in , 
 
 hispolitiqucs he neuer handled exprefly this 
 
 our qucftion ,and confequently weyghed not 
 the reafons'on both fides, and fo left it neither 
 decidedjUor impugned,and he that was maftcr 
 to Alexander, that had fo many forraine coun-» 
 try cs vndcr him , could not wd condemne the 
 
 fame 
 
 i 
 
totbctron?ne. Tart. i. Cap. tX. i^i 
 
 t^ame: and as for Demofthenes no maruaiie J^^^^: 
 though he were fo earncfl: againft king Phil- ^ ' 
 lip ofMacedonia his entry vppon thecictiesof 
 Greece^bothforthat he waswel fecdc on the 
 one fide, by the king 'of Ada ( as al authors do 
 affirme) to the end he fhould fet Athens and 
 other Gtecian citties againll: king PhiUip, as 
 alfo for thai his ovvnc common wealth of 
 Athens vvasgouerned by populetgouermenc 
 wherin himfclfe held ftil the greateft fvvaye 
 by force of his tonge with the people > and if 
 any king or Monarch of what nation foeuer^ 
 fhould haue come tocommauadouerthem, 
 (as Phillipps (bnne king Alexander the great 
 did (bone after) Demofthenes fhould haue 
 had lefle authorixy>as he had, for that prcfently 
 he was banif hed,and fo continued all the ty me 
 that Alexander lived. But if vvedoconfider 
 how this ftate of the Athenians paflcd after- 
 ward vnder the great monarchy of Alexander 
 and other his followers , in refpc<5t that it did 
 before when it hued in hbertyc^and vnder theit 
 owncgouermentonlyahefhal finde their ftate 
 ixnuch more quiet, profperous,and happie , vn- 
 der the commandement of a ftrainger, then 
 jvnder their oWne , by whom they were conti-^ 
 jnually rolled and turmoyled with brallcs^emu* 
 lations, and feditioas ^ and ^^^^^^V^^^^^^^^^^Tl^g^^^- 
 Inizedjby their owne people as the bluddy con. bieforae^ 
 tencions of their Captaines Anftides ,Themi- ftateot 
 cles, Alciblades, Pericles, NiciaSj and others ^-Jnci^ 
 io declare^ and as euident amonge othe r tyc$- 
 Hh thinges 
 
^ , 1X1 , A Con^trtnceuuthm (utcefm 
 5oUi.c i,thinge$ by the ir wicked law of Ojtraafmm 
 which was to banifll for ten ycares, who* 
 focuer were eminent or of more vvifdomc, 
 vveahh> valour, Icrning or authority among 
 them then the reft, albeit he b id committect 
 no crime or fault at aL And finally their bauin^ 
 of thirtic moft horrible and bloody tyrants at 
 one time in their cityc of Athens , in llcedc of 
 one gouernour , dothc duidently dbctare thfe 
 fame ( faye ihefe men ) aind do martte manifcflt 
 howvaine and foohfh an imagination it was^- 
 that vexed them how to aiioyd iht goucrmentf 
 of ftiaingers^, feing that no ftrainge gouemou/^ 
 inthe woildjvvouldeuerhaue vied them as 
 they vfcd ihemfelues, or fo affli(3: them, 
 they afflided themfclues. 
 AjifvYct To the obiedion out of Deutronomy vvhci! 
 «oth€9b. appoynted the lewes to chufe a kmg onlil 
 ot Deu- or their owne nation, thelc men do anlwercj 
 ttonomyccJ)^^ this wasat that tyme, when no nation be 
 Peut.i;. ddes the Icwes had true religion amonge then 
 which pointe of rehgion, theCiuiliin hktl 
 wel declared before , in his laft difcourfc ^ to bi^ 
 the cheifeft andhigheft thing that is to be reP* 
 pedcd , in the admiflion of any magcftrate, for. 
 that itconcerntih the true and higheft endeoF 
 a common vvealth,and of al humane fociet^V 
 and for that the Gentiles had not this orna- 
 nicnt of true religion, but vverc al deftitute ge- 
 nerally therof, the levvcs were forbidden not 
 only to choole a king of the Gentiles/ vvhichi: 
 might peiuert and^ corrupt them ^ but alfo to 
 
 coropa- 
 
toibecToT^nc. Vart 2. Cap. IX. ijj 
 
 |:ompanie conuerfe create and drinke with 
 them,and this was then : but y^t afterward 
 yvhen Chiift himfclfc catncinfo thcvvorldj^ 
 ind opened hi$ church both to lew and gen- 
 tile,hetookeaway this reftrayqte, (pas now zt 
 C^hcidian nations^ arc alike, for fo much as ap^ 
 perteyneth vntogouerment. And co(cqucntIjr 
 to a good and wi(e Chriftian man » void of 
 paflipn and fondeaffe(9tion , it litlc impprteth 
 fas often bc/x>re hath bin (aidj of what coun* 
 try, nation, or linage his goucrnour be, (b he 
 ^ouerne wel, and hauc the partes before requi-« 
 red ofpietie^ reh'gion, iuftice,manhoodc , and 
 other the lifce reqiiifite to his dignitie degree 
 and charge , $y which partes and vcrtues only, 
 {lis fubiedis arc to rcccauebcnefits , and not by; 
 his country, generation, linage or kynred, and 
 this is Co much as I hauc to fay at this tyme 
 about this afFaire. 
 
 OF CERT AY 
 
 6 T H E R S E C O N D ART 
 
 {AND COLLATERAL LI»ES ANCi 
 
 BQ> extreme ^ouht-fuUll thcfe pretences be^Atii 
 li^bich ofal thefe pretendors are moflt likg 
 to preuaile in the end,& to get 
 the mli^ne of IngUnd. 
 
 Cap. X. 
 
 Frer the lawyer had ended his diTcourfe^ 
 about forraiuc goucrment, he fcemed t<> 
 Hh i bsfoitt; 
 
ij4 A Conference tonchmfuccefston 
 be fom what wearied , and (aid he would pafla 
 no further in this affaire , for (hat he had no- 
 thing els to faye but only to note vnto them 
 that befidesthcfe principal titlers,df the fiac 
 houfes mentioned, of Scotland, SufFolke, Cla- 
 rence, Britanie and Portugal , their were other 
 fecondary houfes and lines alfo ilTued out of 
 the houfes of Lanc^fter andVofke, as alfo of 
 j^^,"^ Glocefter Backingam, and fomc other, as may 
 ^ppearc by the genealogies fet downc before 
 in the i.and j.chaptres jof which lines (fayd 
 he) their may be perhapps confideraiion had 
 alfo by the common wealth when tymc fhal 
 comeofchoifeor admiflion , the matter ftan- 
 ding fo as the Ciuilian hath largly declared & 
 f hewed before,whichis,that vppon fuchinft 
 occafions, as thefeare , the common wealth 
 may confult what isbeft.to be done, for het 
 good and preferuation ^ inadmittinge this or 
 that pretender, fcing that this is the end why al 
 .'gouerment was oroeyried , to benefite the j)U* 
 blique. 
 
 And for fo muchc as their is fuch variety o 
 per fons pretendcts > or that may pretend^in the 
 fiuchoufesalredy named, as before hath byn 
 declared, (which perfons at leaft do make fomc 
 dofen more or lc(]c)and thatbefides thefe, their 
 Want not others alfo of fecondary houfes , as is 
 cuident as well by the former difcourfe, as alfo 
 by the arbor that of thefe matters is to be feen^ 
 , the Lawyer turned to affirme againc, that the 
 V cucnt muft uccdes be cxcedingc doubtful, who 
 
 fhaU 
 
totheero%He. Vayf. T. Cap. X. iff 
 
 \ f hall in the ende preiiaile , for that befides the 
 ^ niulriiude before named of pretenders, he a- 
 bouchcdvery ferioufly, that after al this hii 
 fpeech, he could not well refolue with him Ambu 
 fclfe, which of al thefcritlesinttue right of ^I'J^^^^^ 
 i ilicceflion, was the beft,and much lelTe, which ge. 
 I cf the ty tiers was likeft to preuaile , and this I 
 I prcfume the lawyer told them of himfelfe, foe 
 that he did cafely forfec and imagine, that after 
 I al chefe arguments, on euery fide alleaged , he 
 f hould be requefted by the company (as vehe- 
 mently he vvas)to put downe his opinion what 
 bethought and iudged of al the whole matter 
 hitherto difcufled, and of euery mans pretence 
 in particuler. 
 
 i Which in no cafe he could be brought to da 
 for alonge tyme,buc refufed the fame vtterly 
 and craned pardon , and yeilded many reafons 
 K'vhy it was not couenjent, itVight be odious. 
 B.ual would not ferue to acqiiJet tfie compa- 
 I nye,which with all earneft importunitie vrged 
 ! hym to fatisfie their requeft, & fo vppon large, 
 'and earneft intreaty, he was content in the 
 'cndetoyeeld to this only , that he would lay 
 jtogether by way of difcourfe , the probabilities 
 iofeuery fide l and laftly (et downe in two or 
 'three propofitions , or t-atharconiecaiures, his 
 Ipiiuate ghefle which of them in his iudgmcnt 
 Ivvas likeft to preuaile*. * ' Tn-^ 
 i Firft then he be^an to fav . that the probali- g«>undec 
 ties of prenaihng or notpreuailing or euery {^iifji^o^ 
 one of thcfepretendors in the next fuccefnon,^ecdiag/ 
 ^ Hh 3 ofchc 
 
of the crownc of Ingland thcfe pretenders^ 
 roaye be conHdercd and meafuKed either iii 
 ret pe(J^ of the partie of religion , chat was like 
 in Ingland to fauoiir him, and His pretence, or 
 els in refpedt of his ownc particujcr familie, 
 fiends^ and allies » both at honie^ndabroad. 
 And for that the partie of religion is like i6 
 weigh moft , andto beaic the greatcft fwaye, 
 knd moft potent fuflfrage and voice , in thi$ 
 a(9^ion,and that with reafon , according to that 
 the Ciuilian' hath proued at large in the laft of 
 Kis^ifccurfes: rhercforp f hal I alfo ( quoth 
 the lawyer ) firftofal treat of rhispointc of re- 
 ligion in this my laft fpeccheo"* 1 ' 
 Thret re- It is wtl khowne(faid he) that in the rcalmc 
 llf^fjjjfjj*" of Ingland at this day .there are three different 
 and oppofite bodies of religibn , that are o£ 
 moft biilk / and that do carry moft fway , and 
 power , which three bodies, are knowne com^ 
 monly in Ingland by the names of Proteftanrs, 
 Puritanes, and Papiftes , though the bter two, 
 do not acknowlegdc thefe names , and for thd 
 lame can (e would not I vfe them neither , if it 
 were not only forcleernes and breuitics fake^ 
 for that as often I haue protcfted , my meaning 
 isi not to giuc offence to any fide or paitye. 
 
 Thefe three bodies'then(quoihhe)do com- 
 prehend in cffed al the force of Ingland , and 
 do make fo general a diuiHon and icparation^ ^ 
 thrpilgh-out the whole lande, in the hartesiSfi 
 fnyndcs of their frcnds,fauourers,& followers^ 
 if I be nof dec^^aued^ no one thing is lykc fo 
 ''^ mucla 
 
t9thecftlttffit. Tart 1. Ckv. X. ijr 
 I ijiuch to be rcfp€(aed,in each pretender, for his 
 ' aduanccracntor depreflion , as his rehgion or 
 inchnation therin,by ihem that muft aflift hira 
 ar that daye,and are of different religions them - 
 ifclues.And tnorelam of opinion {{ayd he)thac 
 jalbeic in other .changes hcertoforeinlngland, 
 as in the entrance of king Edwatd and Queene 1^.^%^^^ 
 Mary,and of this Queenes Maieftie that nowtanccof 
 is , diuers men of different religions , did for [^^'f f*?*^ 
 other rclpeas , concur and joync together ror aftionjr. 
 thefe Princes aduancements , ( notwithftan- 
 fdingthat afterwards many pf them repented 
 jthc famejwhich is to be fcene, in that for king 
 I Edward al the realms wiihoui* exception did 
 j jconcurr , and for Queene Meiry , it is knowne, 
 ^hatdiuers proteftantsdid by name,&among 
 pther points it is alfo knowne that Sir Nicho- 
 ias Throgmorton a feruentproteftant in thofe 
 dayes , being of king Edwards prmy chamber, 
 jdyd not only, aduile her of the fyckncs and de- 
 jcay of king £dward frpm day to day , but alfo 
 vvasthefirllthatfent an expreflc meflenger to 
 [i aduife her of her brothers death, and what the 
 ' two dukes of NorthumbeLl^nd and SutFoIke, 
 did contriueagainft jiec, and that with fuch 
 celeritye,that king Edward dying but on thurf. 
 day night, the tenth of Iph the Lady Mary was 
 moft certainly ,aduifed tiicrof^by faterday mcr- 
 : ning ncxt, and that very early , in kenninghal 
 cafUc of No[folkc, 8o. miles of, and diuers 
 Other proteftantsdidaflift her alfo , in that her 
 ^mrcy^as in like manncral thofe of the Roman 
 \ Hh 4 i^l^§*-^P.i5 
 
AConfemcemchin^fu(Cefsm 
 religiott, without exception , did aflift h^r rmZ 
 ieftie that now reigneth, after the difceafc of 
 the faid Queene Mary and this was then. 
 The next now am I of opinion , that njatters vvil 
 
 f hangc fal out f.ut othefwifc , at the next change , and 
 li!^^cuit^ this partly peraduenture, for that the titles of 
 fevyhj. fucceflion in the pretenders, are not fbclceare, 
 but rather much more doubtful now , thea 
 they werethcn,and p^nly. ('or rather principal- 
 ly) for that men in ty me are come to be of more 
 ^ refolution and determination in matters of re- 
 
 ligion , and by contention and purfuing ohq 
 the other , are become more oppofite and ene^ 
 niyes,and more defirous of reuenge,and further 
 alfothen thiSjthofcthat be of milder conditio, 
 and haucnotthefe paflions in them , yet by 
 rcafon and experience they do fee the great; 
 ablbrdity and inconuenience that enfueth , by 
 that a man of one religion , f hould giue dydq 
 to the aduancement of a Prince , of a contrary 
 religion , to that which hi mfelfe doth cfteeme 
 and hould for only truth , which in him that fa 
 doth,cannot bedenied,butthat itis a pointeof 
 litle zeale at the leaft , rf hot cocempt of God & 
 of rcligion^or of play ne atheifme,as others v vil 
 call it. And moreouer, I rcmcmber ihat the Ci- 
 vilian before iarheende of his fpeech , inuei<» 
 ghedalfo much againft this pointy and f hewed 
 that befides lack of conference and reUgion^ is; 
 was in like manner agaynft a! hunnane wif- 
 rfome & pollicy,tofauor a pretender of a diffe- 
 rent religion from him fclf, and this for diuets 
 
fotbeere^ne. Tart. i. Cat. X. 
 twfons^that he layed downe, which reafom I 
 confcflc preuayled much with me, and I da 
 altovv greatly of that his opinion and afll'rtion, 
 which aucrred that the firfl: rc(pe<5): of al others 
 ought to be God and religion in this great af^ 
 fay re, of making akingeor Quecne,and that 
 without thys, no title vvhatfbeuer ought to 
 preuaile or be admitted, by chriflian men , and 
 that thccytties of France , at this day do not 
 amiflfe but iuftly and religioufly (fo long as 
 they arc of that religion that they arc J to ftand 
 agaynftthe king of Nauarra>( though other- 
 Wife by difccnt they do confeffe his title to be 
 cleare and euidentjfor that he is of contrary re-* 
 ligion to them. 
 
 Wherforc feing that the very fame cafe is 
 like or rather ceitayne toenfuc one dayinin* 
 gland,and that ir is moil probable , that each 
 p:jrtie of the realmcwil ftand moflvppon this . 
 poinre , that is to faye vppon the defence and 
 aduapcement of their religion , and of fuch a 
 king, as fhalbe knowne tofauour the fame 
 that themfelues be of, let vs examine a little if 
 you pleafe quothe he, what force andabili- 
 tieeach of thefe three bodies, of religion now 
 mentioned, is like to be of , at that day in In- 
 gland , for ef&ftuating or promoting this pur^ 
 pofeofa newking. 
 
 And firft to beginn with the proreftant, as ^j^^ 
 "with him that hath the fway of authority and fi^cratioit 
 prefent power of the ftate in his fauour, i^<>pfoteftit 
 doubt bui^hat hi^ force wilbe ^Ifo gccat, at panic. 
 
 Hh ; that 
 
^4^^ ^ C^ftrmemchmgfucctfiQn 
 that day (faydhej and cfpecially if hecanccn^ 
 ccalc foratyme, thedifccafle of her Maieftie^ 
 vntil he may be able to put his affaires in or- 
 der, but this is holden to be either impoflible 
 or very hard , for the different iudgments and 
 affections which are not thoughte to be wan- 
 ting in the court councel , and Princes cham- 
 ber It felfc^wherof (aw the effe<5l, (as before 
 I tould you ) at the death of king Edward„ 
 which was as much indeuoured to be kept fe- 
 €tct,a$eueranY was ^ and as much it imported 
 the concealers , and yet within not many hou- 
 res after, had the Lady Mary,moft ccrtayne no-. 
 ticeiheraf,by thofe that were oppofiteto heif 
 iarehgion , as I haue f hewed before, fo ardent 
 are mens myndes in fuch occafions,& lo capa*> 
 ble of new impreffios dehgnemets & defires,arc 
 alktndeoffubie<5lsvppon fuch great changes^ 
 *TJic cic- A chiefe member of the protelhnt body (asr 
 ^^^^^ you know) for wealth and force , is the clear- 
 gie of Ingland , cfpecially the bifhops and 
 other men in Ecclefiaftical dignity, which are 
 like to be a great backe to this partie, at that 
 day J though fomc mehihinke that it be not 
 very ccrtayne , which part of the nobilitie and 
 councell will ftick vnto them, for that many in 
 The Cou- hart are prefupppfed to fauour the Puritan, 
 MbuTife. P'^^^y couccll in particuler,ihoug^ 
 
 duringihePrinces life, their authority be fu- 
 prerae» yet is it not fo afterward, nor haue they 
 any publiqueauthoritie at al , the Prince ha- 
 uing onc€ expired ^ but only as noblemen or 
 
 gencleraci^ 
 
uthicroUffte. Tart i. Cap. X. 141 
 
 gentlemen according to each mans ftateand 
 calling in r€ueral,and for ihcn^:xt fuccellbr, 
 feing none is knowne nor fworne in the life of 
 jrhis Prince, ( nor were ir her fafetic that any 
 fhoulJ be ) clecrc it is , that afcer her Maieftics 
 cJifccafe , euery man is free vniil a new be efta* 
 |)lifhcd, by the common wealth , which cfta- 
 blifhmet doth not deped vppon the appoynt- 
 xnenc or wil of any frw.orvppon any tpans 
 proclaymingof himfclfc, (fordiuers arc like 
 CO proclayme themfelues ) but vppon a general * 
 colcnt of the whole body of the rcalme, which 
 Jiow it will be brought to pafle, God only 
 Jcnoweih,& to him we muft coromendc it. 
 
 1 do no know , quothc he, of any cenainc jcrfbiir 
 perfon pretendeni, to whom this protcftant<Jc^^gnc4f 
 party c is particularly deuoted, ar this day^morc ^cthy^ 
 then to the reft , thoughe the houfe of Hart- thcpr<^. 
 ford was wont to be much fauoured by thetn, ^^^^^ 
 tut of latter ycares htilefpech hath bin therof, 
 but rather of A rbcl^a, whofn the Lord TreafQ- 
 reris fayd efpecially tofauour at this prefent, 
 though for himfelfe it be held fomvvhat 
 doubtful whether he be more faft to the pro- 
 teftant,ortp the puritan, but if the protcltai>t 
 partye^ fhonld be deuidcd , then their forces 
 Wilbe the lefle. The authority of her maieftie.K? 
 that which at this prefcnt ouer beareth al^ wht 
 that fhal fayle , no n>an knoweth what the 
 euent wilbe, for that now meni hartes a^ife 
 hatdly defcerned. 
 
 There fibiray ne ftcnds andallies^ are of gooi 
 
 number, J 
 
iii A Conference touching fuccefslm 
 number, efpecial^ if the king of France pr(5- 
 the pro. ceedwellinhisafFayres, and do not indecde 
 ^'^^ change his rehgion as he pretendeth that he 
 Wil,but yet if the puritan* do ftande againft 
 them, he is Hke to pull much from them, both, 
 in France and Holland , and as for Scotland, \t 
 muft needes be agaynft them both, and this in 
 refpedl of his owne pretence , except the 'fame 
 bcfauouredby thcm,I meane bythefe twofa-* 
 ^ions in Ingland which is hardly thought that 
 any of them both wil do, for the reafons before 
 allcaged, though (bme more hope may be that 
 way, of the puritan, then of the proteftant, 
 ty reafonofthefaid kings neernes to themia 
 religion. — 
 of Ac xhe puritan is more generally fauourei 
 1^21 **'through.out the realme with al ihofe vvhicla 
 V ^ \ are not ofthe Roman religion, then is the pro* 
 teftant , vppon a certaync general perfwalion, 
 that his profefsion is the more perfecft, efpe- 
 ciailly in great townes where preachers haue 
 -made more impreflion in the artificers , and 
 burgelles ^ then in the country people. And 
 among the proteftanrs, thcmfelues, al ihofc 
 that are lefle interclled in Ecclefiaftical liuings 
 or other preferments , depending of the ftate, 
 are more afFc(5led commonly to the puritans^ 
 cr eafily are to be induced to pafle that way for 
 the fame reafon. The perfon moft fauoured 
 by the puritans hitherto in totnmon voice and 
 opinion of mcn,hath bin the eaile of Hun ting-* 
 ton 5 forac fpeech of late of fomc diminution 
 
 therin^ 
 
tothetri^'^ine. Tart. i. Cap. X. 145 
 ®ierin,and that the LordBeacham fincc his^^^^^^^"* 
 marriage , haih entred more in atfedkion wtih by ihc-> 
 them. The king of Scotts ( no doubr ) if hc^""^'*"- 
 Werc not a ftrainger , and had not the difficul- 
 ties before mentioned , were for his religion 
 alfo wcry plaafible.l do not hcare that the carle 
 cf Darby or his mother , is much forward wirh 
 thefe or with the piotellant, though of the 
 later fort , fome are fnppofcd to vvif h them 
 yvclL 
 
 The frendes & allies of rhe puritan abroade^ Extcm4 
 are the fame, that are of the Proceftant, iq^^^^ 
 Witjthofe of Holland and Zealand, and fuch 
 towncs of France as follow the new king , and 
 ioyntly hauechainged their religion, which 
 arc nor many , for that his greateft forces arc 
 yet thofeof the Roman Religion , but yet if ^ - 
 thefayd king preuaile and perfeuerin hisreli- 
 > gion (which of late as I haue fayde is called in 
 doubt by his ofcen protcftations to the contra- 
 ry and open going to maffejthen wil he be able 
 to giue good afliftance , thoughe both theic 
 countryes(I mcanc both Holland and France) 
 areliker in fome mens opinions , to afljft the 
 puritan then the proteftant, if the matter come 
 in difference betweene them , for that in truth 
 they are more conforme to the puritan reli- 
 gion. And as for the German citties,that kepe 
 yet and follow rhe particuler forme of Luther LuthciUi 
 in religion, they are like to do little for either 
 partye , both for their difference from both 
 partyes in reh^ion,and for that they arc poorc, 
 
 foe 
 
144 A CQnfnenci touching fMcefm 
 for the mod parr,and not adliue nor prouMedt 
 to giuefoccur abroad, cxcepc they be drawnci 
 xhervnto by force of money. 
 »in alho" Purican parte at home in Ingland , it 
 
 qpac. ' ^ thoughc to be moft vigoroulc of any other^ 
 that is to fay,moft ardenr^quick, bold rcfolure^ 
 and tohauc a great part of thebeftCapuines' 
 and (buldiers on their iide^which is a pointe o^ 
 no fmal moment* Greatly wil import among^ 
 other poyntes which waycinclineth the ciifyc 
 ^ of London.with the tovver,wherof the purican 
 (asis fayde) wanteth not his probability 9 as 
 neither doth he of fome good partf if not motc^ 
 of the nauy, to be at his deuotion, which point 
 perhapps at that day , vvilbe of as greate confe* 
 quence as any thing els, & fo much of him. 
 Thofeof Theihird body of religion, which are thofe' 
 thcRotni of the Roman, who cal thcfelucs Catholique^t 
 v^eUgiott. ^h^. leaft in fhcw,at this prefent.by rcafon of 
 the lawes andtydcsof the tyme, that runnc 
 ogaynft them,butyetate they of no fmal con- 
 fideration in this affaire , to him that weighcth 
 thinges indifferently , and this in refpcdtas wcl 
 cftheirpartyeat home, as of their frends 
 broadc,for at home,they being of two fortes at 
 the world knoweth , the one more open that 
 difcoucr thcmfelues , which are the recufants, 
 and the other more clofc and priuy, that ac- 
 commodate themfelucs ro al external procee- 
 dings of the tyme, and ilate , fo as they cannot 
 be knownc^or at leaft wife not much touched: 
 we may imagine ^ that their ndbcr is not fmai,^ 
 ' through 
 
tothecroy^ne. Tdrt i. Cap. X. 14 f 
 
 throughout the rcalme , and this partly for the 
 reafon I mentioned before , in that the rooft 
 part of chc country people, thatliuc outofcit^ 
 ryes, and great townes (in which thegreatcft 
 part of Inglifh forces are wont to confift ) arc 
 much afFe(^ed ordinarily to their religion , by 
 reafon that preachers ofthecontrarie religion 
 are not fo frequent with them, as in townes, The Ra-T^ 
 and partly alfo for that with thefe kinde of [^"-f^a 
 nien , as with them that arc moft afflK^ed and ^ ^h* 
 hM downe , at this ty me , by the prefent ftate^ 
 inany other do ioy ne^'as the manner is )& §mncs 
 iqtd amaro animofunty cum tUis ft conimgunt^ as the 
 fcripturc faydof ihofe , that followed Dauids 
 retinew,purfued by Saul and hi$forces,whicIi 
 as to fay ,that al that be offended greued^or any 
 way difcontented with the prefent tymc, be 
 they of what religion foeuer, do eafdy ioync 
 with thefe men, according to the old faying 
 SoUtium esl miferis foms habere mifcrU , befides 
 that, their is euer lightly a certaine natural co- 
 paflion,chatfuUoweth in men, towards ihofe 
 j thatare thought to fufFcr, or be putfued, and 
 this ofcentymes in the very enimyc himfelfc^ 
 and then of compaflion fpringeth as you know 
 affedion, and of affedion ,defire to helpc , as 
 contrary wife, do rife commonly the contrary 
 tfFeds,to vvitt , emulation, enuy and indigna* 
 tion, againft the profperity of him^tKatpur^ 
 iucth,and is in proipcritie. 
 
 And for that in fo great and populoas a 
 le^me and large a goucrmeac^as this of her 
 ^ ^ inaieftiD 
 
"24^ A Conference toMbiH^ futcefim 
 znaieftie hath byn, there cannot want to he 
 many ofthefckinde ofdifcotentcd roe,asal(b 
 for that naturally many are dcfiroiis of chair* 
 ges,it cannot be fuppoled,but that the number 
 of this forte is great, which maketh thi9 party^ 
 far the bigger. 
 £ffcas of Moreouer it is noted, that the much deahng 
 picfldng^ with thefe men, or rather againft them, & this 
 ^ rcligio. ^(p^^j^jly niatters of their religion , for thefe 
 later yeares part , hath much ftirred them vp^ 
 (zs alfo the Uke is to be noted in the puritan) 
 and made them far more egar in defence of 
 their caufe,according to the frying , mttmttr in 
 vetitum fmper^ and as a litle brook or ryuer 
 though it be but fhaloW and tunneneuerfo 
 cjuiet of it felfe , yet if many barres and ftoppes 
 be made iherin , it fwellcth and nfeth to a 
 greater force > euen fo it fecmeth that it hath 
 happened hecrc , whcr alfo the fight & remem- 
 fcrace of fo many of their Seminary preiftes,put 
 to death for their religion ( as they accompt it) 
 liath wrought great imprcflion in their hartes^ 
 as alio the notice they haue reccaaed , of fa 
 anahy colleges and IngHf h Seminaries remay- 
 ning yet , and fet vp of new , both in Flanders^ 
 Franccjltalieand Spayne, for making of other 
 -preilles in place of the executed , doth greatly 
 animate them 8^ holdeththem in hope of con- 
 tinuing ftill their caufe^and this^t home^ 
 Prends & As for abroade , it is eafie to confider what 
 •lUcft 'their party and confidence is , or may be, not 
 
 ^' only by the Inglifh that liueia exile, and baac 
 
 _ ^^^^^ 
 
tothecroT^ne. Tdrt. t. Cap. X. 147 
 
 their frends and kynrcd at home, but alfb prin* 
 cipallyby theafFeAion of forraynePtinccs Sc 
 ftates , to fauour their religion , whofe porics> 
 townes^and prouinces lye necrc vppon Inglahd 
 rounde about, &forfucha tymeandpurpofc, 
 could not want commoditie to giuc fuccor^ 
 which being weighed together with the 
 knowne inclination^ that way, of Ireland, and 
 the late declaration made by lb many of the 
 Scotif h nobility and gentlemen alfo, to fauour 
 that caufc,all thefe poyntes I fayc put together, 
 muftnccdesperfuadc vs,thatthis body is alfo 
 great, and ftronge, and like to bcarc no fmalc 
 fway in thedecyding of this controuerfic foe 
 the crownc, when ty me fhal offer itfelfe for 
 the fame. And fo much the more, for that it is 
 not yet knowne, that thefe are determined vp- 
 pon any one perfonwhom they will follow^ 
 inthatadlion ,noras it femeth are they much 
 inclined to any one of the pretenders in parti- 
 culer (whcrin it is thought that the other two 
 partyes cither are, or may be deuided among 
 themfclucs, and each parte alfo within it felfe, 
 for that fo different perfbns of thofc religions 
 doftandfor it) butratherit is thought, that 
 thefe other of the Roman religion do remay ne 
 very indifFerent,to follow any one that f halfc|e 
 fetvp for their religion ,and islykeft to reftorc 
 and mayntayne the fame, be he ftrainger or do- 
 mcftical, which determination and vnion in 
 gencralamongthcmfeIucs,if they hold it ftill 
 
 li and 
 
1 4^ A Conferenu tonchant f uccefs'ton 
 and perfeuer therin , muft necdes be a great 
 ftrengthe vnto their caufe, &giue them great 
 fvvay vvhcrfoeuer they fhal bend at that 
 daye,asby rcafoniseuident, and fo much of 
 this matter. 
 
 Confide remayneth then that after thefe confide- 
 lationsof^^^^ions of thc three bodyes in general , vvc 
 «ach^pj^e. parte to the veiw of each familic houfe and per- 
 l^riiculcr f<^" ptetendent in particuler,and therin to con- 
 template vvhat may be for him , and what 
 agaynft him, in this pretence and purfuie of 
 the crowne* 
 
 Jf swt-^ And to begynne firft of al with the king of 
 landc Scodand^as with him, who in vulgar opinion 
 ofmany mentis thought to be firft & formoft 
 in this adtion by waye of fucceffion ("albeit 
 others do denye the fame^and do make it very 
 dowtful as before hathc bin declared ) yet jf we 
 doconfyder nochisc!tle(for of that wehaue 
 fpoken fufficiently before in the y. chapter) 
 but other circumftances only of his perfon, 
 ftate, condition and thc lyke, (of which poyn- 
 tes only we are to treat in this place ) then 
 muft we confefle that as on thc one fide their 
 are diuers poyntes that mayc furder him^nd 
 inuitemcn tofauour his caufe, fo want their 
 not other to hynder the fame. The poyntes 
 that mayeinuite , are his youth, his beinge a 
 kynge , his moderate nature in tha^ he hath 
 fbed little blood heiherto , his afFedion^in re- 
 ligion to fuch as like therof, and the like, but 
 
 on the 
 
tothecYoJ^ne. VdrU i. Cap. IX. 149 
 
 on the other fide, the reafons of ftate before 
 laidagainft him, do fecme to be of very great 
 force, and to weigh much with Inghfhmen, 
 cfpecially thofe of his ally ance with the Danc5, 
 and dependance of the Scotcifh nation. And 
 as for his religion , it muft needes dilpleale 
 two parties of the three before mentioned, 
 and his manner of gouerment therin perhapps 
 al three. 
 
 AsforArbella, in that fhe isayongLady, 
 f he is therby fitfas you knowj to procure good 
 wills & affedions , and in that fhe is vnmar- 
 ried fhe may perhapps by her marriage, ioyne 
 fome other title with her owne, and therby 
 alfofrends.But of her felfe, fhe is nothing at al 
 allyed with the nobility oflngland,and except 
 it be the earle of Shrewf bury , in refpedt of 
 Frendfhip tohis old mother in Law, that is 
 grand mother to the Lady, I fee not what 
 noble man in Ingland hath any barde of kyn- 
 ied,or alliance to follow her. And as for her 
 title, it feemeth as doubtful as the reft, if not 
 more, as by that which hath bin faid before, 
 hath appeared. And for her religion , I know it 
 not, but probably it can be nogrear moriue, 
 either againft her or for her/or that by al likely 
 hoodeit may befuppofed to be as ledergreene 
 and flexible yet,as is her age and fex , and to be 
 wrought heerafter and fettled according to 
 futureeuenrsand rymes. 
 
 In the houfe of SufFolke,the Lord-Beacham 
 
 li X and 
 
a JO A Conference touching fuccefsion 
 
 I<s^Bca-* and t&c earle of Darby haue the difference 
 cham & Qf titles that before hath bin feenc , and each 
 Ln^aiby. onehisparticuler reafonswhy he ought to be 
 preferred before the other , and for their other 
 abihties and poffibiHtieSjihey are alfo different, 
 but yet in one thing both Lords feeme to be 
 hke,that being both of the blood royal , they 
 are thought to haue abafed thcmfelues much 
 by their marriages with the two knightes dau- 
 ghters S.Richard Rogers, and S.Iohn Spenfer, 
 thotigh otherwife both of them very worf hip 
 ful , but not their matches in rerpe<9: of their 
 kinred with the crowne,yet doth the alliance 
 of S. lohn Spenfer feeme ro bringe many more 
 frehds with it, then that of S. Richard Rogers, 
 by reafon of the other daughters of S.Iohn, 
 vvel married alfo , to perfons of importance, as 
 namely the one to S Georg Carey gouernour 
 of the lie of Wight, who bringeth in alfo the 
 Lord Hunfdon hisfatherCaptaineof Barwick, 
 two of the moft important pceccs that In- 
 gland hath* 
 
 AUiancc And for that the faid Lord Hunfdon ^ and 
 carle V the Lady knowles difceafed, were brother and 
 Daib/. fifter , and both of them children to the Lady 
 Mary Bullen,eldcr fifter to Qucene Anne, here 
 of it cometh , that this alliance with S. George 
 Carey , may draw after it alfo the faid houfe of 
 knowles , who are many and of much impor- 
 tance , as alfo it may do the hufbandes of the 
 other daughters of S.Iohn Spencer, with their 
 
 adhc- 
 
tothecroT^ne, Part. z. Cap. X. i/r 
 
 adherents and foUowerSjWhich are nether few 
 nor feeble, al which wanteth in the marriage 
 of the Lord Beacham. Allijnce 
 
 An other difference alfo in the ability of of the 
 thefe two Lords is, that the houfe of Seymeis 
 in (late and title of nobility, is much yonger 
 then the houfe of Stanleys, for that Edward 
 Seymer late earle of Hartford , and after duke 
 of Somerfct,wasthe firft beginner therof^who 
 being cat of together with his brother the 
 Admiral , fo foone as they were , could not fo 
 fetlc the faide houfe, efpecially in the alliance 
 with therefidueof thcnobilitie, as otherwifc 
 they would and might hauedone. But no^as 
 it reraay neth^ I do not remember any allyance 
 of that houfe, of any great moment , except it 
 be the childcc of S. Hery Seimer of Hamf hire, 
 and of S. Edward Seymcr of Bery Pomery in 
 Deuonfhire, if he haue any , and of lohn 
 Smith of ElTcx,whofe mother was fifter to the 
 late duke ofSomerfet, or finally the alliance 
 that the late marriage of the earle of Hartford, 
 with the Lady Francis Hawnrd , may bring 
 with ir, which cannot be much, for fo great a 
 purpofe as we talke of. 
 
 But the carle of Darby on the other fide , is ^Uj^^^^^ 
 very ftrogly & honorably allied,both by father of the 
 and mother, for by his father not to fpeake of^""^*^* 
 the Stanleys, (which are many and of good 
 power, and one of them matched in the houfe 
 of Northumberland } his faid father the old 
 
 li 5 earle 
 
a ji A Conference touching fuccefton 
 carle had three fifters , al wel married , and 
 alhaue left children, andheyresof ihehoufes 
 wheriii they were married , for the elder was 
 married firft to the Lord Sturtonjand after to 
 S.Iohn Arundel , and of both houfts hath left 
 heyres male. The feconde fitter was married 
 to the Lord Morley , by whom (he hath left: 
 the Lord that now is, who in lyke manner 
 hath mached with the heyre of the Lord 
 Montegle who islikevvife a Stanley, And fi- 
 nally the third filler was married to S. Nicho- 
 las PoynesofGlocefterfhire, and by him had a 
 fonne and heyre that yet Hue th. And this by his 
 Tare of^^^^^^^ alliance hath this earle 
 
 thVoii ^1'^ l^y the fide of his mother , who being 
 Co nceiu (^^oghter df George Cliford earle of Cumber- 
 uaiby. j^^, j^[^y Lady Eleanor neece of king Henry the 
 fegenih, the laid Lord George , had afterward 
 by a fccond wife^ihat was daughter ofrhe Lord 
 Dacres of the North, both the eaile of Cum- 
 heiland thatm^W is, and the Lady wharton, 
 who hereby are brother and fifter of the halfe 
 blood, to the raid CounielTe of Daiby , and the 
 Dacrcs are iheir Vncles. 
 M^heT:?. Bclides al this, the ftates and podefsions of 
 ^^'7 "ia^ rhe two foifaidc Lordes ^ are far different , for 
 n'sr.d ti'^^ pu rpoflc pt etended, for that the ftatc of the 
 ^ ^' car Icof Hartford isfir inferior , both for great- 
 ' DCS, /icuation, wealth multitude of fubiea:s ,& 
 the like: for of that of the Stanleys, doth de- 
 pead the moft part of the f hires of Lancaiter 
 
tothecYoT^ne. Van !• Cap, X- lyj 
 
 and Chefter > and a good parre of the North of 
 Wales, (at leaft wife by way of obferuancc and 
 affcdion) as alfo the lie of man , is their ovvne^ 
 and Ireland and Scotland is notfar of, where 
 frendfhip perhapps in fuch a cafe might be of- 
 fred,andfinally m thispoyntc of abiHity great 
 oddes is their feene betweene thefe Lordes. 
 
 As for their religion , I cannot determyncRcHgloii 
 whatdifFerence their is, or may be betweene ^^^^^ 
 them. The Lord Beacham by education is pre- 
 fumed to be a proteftant, albeit fome hold that 
 his father , and father in lawbe moreincHned 
 towards the Puritans. The earle of Darbyes 
 religion.is held to bemoredoubtful,foasfome 
 do thinke him to be of ah three rehgions , and 
 others of none, and thefe agaync are deuided in 
 judgments, about the eucnt heerof, for that 
 fome do imagin that this opinion of him, may; 
 do him goode, for that al fides heerby niay 
 (perhapps ) conccaue hope of him , but others 
 do perfuade themfelues that it vvil do him 
 hurt, for that no fide in deede will cfteeme or 
 truft him , fo as al thefe matters with their 
 euents , and confequcnces do remay nc vncer- 
 laine. 
 
 But now will I pafle to fpeake of the houfe The carte 
 of clarence, the cheefe perfons , wherof , and ^f^^^- 
 moftemynenr at this daycare theearle of Hun- 
 tington, and his bretherenthe Haftings, for 
 that the Pooles and Barringtons are of far 
 meaner condition and auihoritie, albeit the 
 
 li 4 other 
 
XJ4 ^ Conference touching fuecepon 
 other alfojl meanc the houle of Haftings , doth 
 not ferae to be of any great ally ancc , for that 
 albeit the old earle of Huntington , this caries 
 father, had two brethren , the one S. Thomas 
 Haftings, that married one of the Lord Henry 
 Pooles daughters named Lord montague , that 
 was put to death , which daughter was fifter to 
 this carles mother, and the other named S. 
 Edward Haftings was made LordofLowgh- 
 borow, by Queenc Mary, to whom he was hrft 
 mafter of the horfe,and afterward Lord Cham- 
 berland,neither of themhauingleft^iflue: and 
 this is al I remember by his fathers fide, except 
 it be his owne brethren as hath bin faid of 
 which S^Gcorge Haftings is the cheefcft. 
 AUilceof By his mothers fide, he hath only the Ppo- 
 tHcwric les , whofe power as it is not great, fo what it 
 fln^^nf rather lyke to beagaynfthim then with 
 hrm,partly for their difference from him in rc- 
 ligion,and partly for preferment of their ownc 
 title,vppon the reafons before allcaged. 
 
 By his owne marriage with the daughter of 
 the late dukeof Northumberland , and fifter to 
 the late carles of Lecefter andWarwickc, he 
 Was lyke to hauedrawnea very great & ftrong 
 alliance if the faid two carles had lined, and ef- 
 pecially, S. Phillip Sidney, who was borne of 
 the other fifter of the prefent Countefle of 
 Huntington, and his owne fifter was married 
 to the earle of Penbroke that [now is,(!^him- 
 ftrlfe to the daughter of S. Francis Walfingham 
 
 chcefc 
 
tothtcro^ne. Tart 1. Cap.' X. x$$ 
 
 cheefc fecrerary of the ftatc , by al which mca- 
 nesandby al the affection and power of the 
 party puritan, and much of theproceftanr , this 
 carle was thought to be in very great forward- 
 nes. But now thefc great pillers being fayled, 
 andnoifTuc yet remayningby thcfaidCoun- 
 icfle,his wife^ no man can allure himfelfe what 
 the fucccfle wil be, efpecially feing that of the 
 three bodycs of difFcient rehgions , before de- 
 (cnbedjit is thought that this earlehath incur- 
 red deeply the haired of the one , and perhapps 
 fome ieloufy and fufpition of the other,but ycc 
 others do fay (and no doubt but that it is a 
 matter offingular importance ifitbefo) ^batJ^^«P^** 
 he is lyke to haue the whole power of London Londoai 
 for him , which citty did preuaile fo much in 
 aduancing the title ofYorke, in king Edward 
 the fourth his ty nie, as it made him king twife, 
 to wit once at the beginning, when he firft ap- 
 prehended and put downc king Henry the 
 fixt , and the fecond ly me, when he being 
 driuen out of thekingdome by his brother thez4.H5i" 
 duke of Clarence, and Richard eatle of \Var-!||*6^hc4 
 wicke , he returned from Flanders vppon hope Hcmkiw 
 of the fauour of the Londoners, and was in^- 
 deede rcceaued , fauoured and fet vp agay nc by 
 them efpecially, and by the helps of Kent and 
 other places adioyning and depending of Lon- 
 don,and fo it may be that the fauourers of this 
 carle do hope the hke fucccfle to him intyrac 
 by this potent cittie. 
 
 li J For 
 
1S6 A Conference touching fuccefwn 
 
 ol^BrT- honks of Bricanny and Portugal y I 
 
 tainc and fhal ioynethcm both together, for that they 
 Poitugai. ^j.^ ftraingers , and the perfons therof fo nigh 
 linked in k) nred affinitie & frendf hip , as both 
 iheir tittles forces and fauours, may eafely be 
 ioyned together, and imparted the one with 
 the other, as lothemfelues fhal beft appears 
 conuenient. 
 
 Infanta The lady Infanta of Spaync pretendcnt of 
 •ispayne houfe of Britanie,is eldeft daughter of king 
 Phillip as al the world knoweth,and dearly be- 
 . leued of him , and that worthely as al men re- 
 port, thatcome from thence, for that The is a 
 princefleof rare partes both for bewty , wif- 
 Bukeof dome andpietie. The two vong Princes of 
 Farma. p^^j^^ j mcane both the duke and his brother 
 theCardinal,are ympes in like manner of great 
 cxpeftation , and diners w^yes neere of kyna 
 to the faid king , for that by their fathers lide 
 they are his nephewes that is the childeren of 
 his fjftcr, and by their mothers (idcalmooft as 
 neere , for that they are the nephewes of his 
 ^j^^^^j^^vncle Prince Edward Infant of Portugal, 
 of Bra- In lyke neernes of blood are the DuchefTe 
 ganla. of Braganfa and her children ,vnto the faid 
 king, which children are many as hath bin 
 f hewed,and al of that rare vertue and valor and 
 of that finguler affection vnto the Englii h na- 
 ti6,as it is wonderful to heare what men write 
 from thofe partes , and what others do repoi te 
 thathauetrauaylcd Portugal and feene thofe 
 
 Princes 
 
tothecrd^ne. Tart 2. Cap. X. 257 
 
 Princes and rafted of their magnificence libe- 
 rality , fo as I haue hard diucrs reioy fe that are 
 afFedbcd tharvvay , tovnderftand that their do 
 remayne fuch noble oflping yet in forrayne 
 countryes of the true and ancient blood royal 
 offngland. 
 
 What the powers and pofllbilitiesofal thefe ^owcrol 
 Princes of the houfe of Poitagal be, or may be pm^Sts, 
 heerafter for purfuyng their right, Thai not 
 neede to be declared in this place, for that al 
 the world doth know and fee the fame, yet al 
 fcemeth to depend of the heade & roote yvhich 
 is thekingof Spay nehimfeife, and theyonge 
 Prince his fonne , whofe ftates and forces how 
 ad where they lye, what allyance, fiendes, 
 fubie(5ls or followers they haue or may haue, 
 it is eafy to confider , but what patt or atfedioti 
 of men they haue or may haue heerafter in 
 Ingland it felfe,whentyme fhalcomc,for the 
 determyning of this matter, no man can tell at 
 this prefent,and what plotts agreements,com- 
 partitions ^ or other conclufion^ may be made 
 at thatday^ tyme only muft teach vs, fo as now 
 I knownot well what to fay further in this af-» 
 fatre, but only commend it to Gods highe 
 prouidence, and therefore I pray you (quoth 
 the La wyerjlet me endc with this only that al- 
 rcdy I haue faide,and pardon me of my former 
 promiire to put my opinion otgheiTe , about 
 future matters, and what may be the fuccede of 
 thefe affaires, for bcfidcs that I am, no prophet 
 
 or fonnc 
 
ijS A Conference touching fuccefion 
 
 or (bnnc of prophet, to know things to come, 
 
 I do fee that the very circumftances of conie- 
 
 ^ture ( which are the only foundation of al 
 
 prophefic which in this cafe can be made ) arc 
 
 fo many and variablcias it is hard to take hold 
 
 cfanyofchem. 
 
 Thus he faid , and fay nc would haue left of 
 heere , but that the whole company oppofed 
 th^mfelucSjWith great vehemcncie , againft it, 
 and (ayde, that he muft ncedesperforme his 
 promifIe,madcat the beginning of this fpcech, 
 to giuc his cenfurc & verdite in the end, what 
 he thought would be the fuccelFe of al thcfe 
 matters, wherunto he anfwered , that fein^ no 
 nay would ferue, he would breifly quit him- 
 fclfe by thefe few woordes following. 
 C6icaurc ^^^^ al('faid he) my opinion is , that 
 that their ^^iis affiyte cannot poffibly be ended by any 
 «vitbc poflfibility moral » without fome w^arr , at 
 ic vvhyc. Ic^ft wife , for fbmc tymeat the beginning, 
 whcrof my reafons be thefe that do enfew. 
 This matter cannot be difputed and deter- 
 I. myned duringe the life of the Qucene,thac 
 now is , without euident danger of herperfon, 
 for the reafons that al me do know importingc 
 fuchc perils as are wont to follow like cafes, 
 of declaring heyres apparent , efpccially her 
 maieftie the prefcnt polFclTbr growing now to 
 be old & without hope of ilfue. 
 
 This declaration and determination of the 
 ^* heyrc apparent to the crownc if it fhould be 
 
 made 
 
tcthecrgT^ne. V^t. 2. Cap. X 1/9 
 trade now, would mouc infinit humors, and 
 afFedions within the rcalmc, and it were to 
 fturr coles andtocaft fyerbrands oucr all the 
 kingdome , and further perhapps alfo , which 
 now lye raked vp and hidden in the embers. 
 
 This determination thoughe it fhould be 5 
 made now by pailament , or authority of the 
 prelent Prince , would notende or takeaway 
 the rooteofthccontrouerfic , for albeit fomc 
 that fhould be palled ouer or put backe in 
 their pretences, would hold their peace per* 
 happs for the tyme prefcnt , yet afterward 
 would they borhefpeake andfpurne whcnoc- 
 cafionisoffied. 
 
 This declaration now if it were made, would 4 
 be hurtful and dangerous for him that fhould 
 be declared , for on the one fide , it would put 
 the Prince regnant in great ieloufic and fulpi- 
 cion of him,and on the other fide, would ioy ric 
 and armeal the other pretenders and their fa- 
 uourers agaynft him,andfowcrcadc,tfaatof 
 two or three only , that in al ourhiftories arc 
 recounted to haue by n declared hey rs apparent 
 to the crowne ( they being no kinges children) 
 none of them , euer came to reigne : as namely 
 duke Arthur of Britany , Roger Mortimer 
 carle of March , and lohn de la Poole carle of 
 Lincolne,and Henry marques of Exeter as be- 
 fore hath bin declared. 
 
 Agayne the multitude of pretenders being J 
 fuch as it is,& their pretentions fo ambiguous^ 
 
 as hath 
 
x6o A Conference touching fuccepon 
 as hath bin declared , it is to be prcfuppofed, 
 that none or few of themwil prefently at the 
 beginning caft away their hope & forgoe their 
 tittles , but wil prooue at leaft wife what fi ends 
 Will ftand vnto them, and how matters are like 
 Cogo fototagaynft them,tfpecially feing they 
 may do it without danger , no law being 
 agairift thcm,and their nghtes and pretenfes fo 
 manifeft, that no man can fay they do it of 
 ambitiqn only, or malice, treafon, or confpira- 
 cy againft others , and for this allaye or fitft at- 
 tempt,armes are neceffary. 
 
 More-ouer if any man in procelTe of tyme, 
 Aconfi- would forgoeorgiueouer his title (as it is to 
 w"c°" be imagined that diuers wil at length, and 
 Buttkcd. many muft,for that one only can fpeedjyetto 
 theendehebenotfuddenly opprcded , or laid 
 bandeson at the beginning by his aduerfary 
 perte, or made away as in fuch cafes is wont to 
 fucccede, it is very likely that each pretender 
 I for His ownc fafety and defence,Wil arme him- 
 felfe and his frendes at the beginning ^ for that 
 better conditions wilbe made with armor in 
 handes , then when a man is naked or in rhe 
 powerof his aduerfary, and nodoubt, bntthc 
 more pretenders fhal ftand together armed, at 
 the beginning the eafyer and ihe furf r peace 
 wilbe made with him that fhall preuaile,for 
 thar they being many with whom he hath to 
 compounde,he will refpe<5l: them the more, & 
 ycald to more rcafonable and honorable con- 
 ditions. 
 
tothemTi^ne. Tart z. Cap. X. 16 1 
 
 ditionSjthcn if their were but one, & he weake 
 thatfhould rcfift, forthatafaultordifpleafurc 
 is more eafily pardoned to a multitude, & to a 
 potent aduerfarvj then to one or two alone 
 that are of Icfle accompt. And on the other 
 (ide, theperill ofthefe other- pretenders , that 
 fhould not preuaile , being common to 
 them al , would knyt them better together for 
 their owne defence, in liuing vnder the perfoii 
 thatfhould preuaile and reigne, and he would 
 beare more regard vnto them as hath bin faid: 
 and this both for that they fhould be ftrongec 
 by this vnion to defend themfelues,and he that 
 reigneth fhould haue Icllecaufe to fufpe6l& 
 feare them, to worke treafon agaynft him, for 
 that they are many , and confequently not Co 
 cafy to agree betweene ihefelues, who fhould 
 be preferred, ifche other were pulled downe, 
 which to the perfon regnant, would be alfo a 
 ground of much fecuritye. 
 
 Thefe are my reafons and conieftures why 
 it islikethatarmes wilbe taken at the begin- 
 ning in Ingland, before this controueifie can 
 
 be decided. * Tliercc"'d 
 
 My fecond propofition^and coniedlure is, coieauw 
 that this matter is iiot like to come eafely to no?naya 
 any great or may ne battel, but rather to be en- p^obaWc* 
 ded at length , by fome compofition, and gene- 
 ral agreement, & my reafons for this be thefe. 
 
 Fiift, for that the pretenders be many, and 
 their powers and ftends lying in diuers and 
 
 different 
 
x6i A Confemee tmhing fmefsion 
 different partes of rhe realmc^ and if their were 
 but two jthcn were it more probable, rhat they 
 would foonc come to a battel, but being many 
 each one vvil feare the other , and fcke to 
 fortific himfelfe u heic his owne ftrength lyeth 
 andefpecially towardcs theportes and fea fide^ 
 for rcceauing of fuccours, as eafely may be 
 done^byreafonof the multitude of competi. 
 tors as hath bin faid, which vvil caufe that at 
 home the one will not much vrge or prefle the 
 other,atthe beginning, but euery parr attend 
 rather to ftrenghchen it felfefor the tyme. 
 
 A fecond reafon oiihxs is , for that the for- 
 rayne Princes and ihtes rounde about vs, arc 
 liketobemuchdeuidcd in this matter, fomc 
 asprctendentsforthemfelues or their kynred 
 &frends,and others as fauourers of this or that 
 party, for religion 5 (b as their will not want 
 prefently offers of helpes and fuccours from 
 abroade, which fuccours albeit they f hould be 
 but meant or fmalle at the beginning, yetvvill 
 they be of much importance, when the forces 
 at home bedcuided , and when their fhalbe 
 different portes harbors, and holdcs, ready 
 within the landc^ro receaue and harbour them, 
 fb as I take it to be moft likely, that this afFayre 
 vvil grow fbme what longe and fo be ended 
 at lenght by fomecompofition only , and that 
 either by parlament and general conlent of al 
 partes prctendcntes, and ofal three bodyes of 
 rchgion meeting together by their deputes 
 
SotbemT^ne. V4rt. 2. Cap.. X. iJj 
 andtrcacand conclude (bm^ forme of agree- 
 ment as we fee it prailifed now in France , oc 
 els by fome other meanes of commitiaries^ 
 conimi(Iioners,lt^garcs^ depucies,or thehke^to 
 to make the conclufion with eueyy paitye si 
 funder. 
 
 My third&Iartcome^tureisCSs: fora mcereThethird 
 coniedlureonly , I would haue you tohold iC;)^°"J.^*^^g 
 that feeing there be two fortes of pretenders, lykeft to 
 which ftande for this prtfercnenr,the one ftran-^"***^^' 
 gers, the othei Inghfh^my opinion is ^ that of 
 any one fori ay nc Prince fhat pretendeth,ihc 
 Infanta of Spayne is likeft to beare it away , or 
 fomeother by her title, layed vppon hym by 
 her father the kinges good will, and on the 
 <bthcr fidCjofany domeliical competitors^ th^ 
 fecondfbnne of the earle of Hartford , or of 
 theilfue of the countelle of Darby , canieth 
 mach f hew to be preferred. 
 
 My reafonsfor the former pgrt , about th^^^f^^^^ 
 JLady Infanta^are,that fhc is a woman, and ms^y otspzyne 
 eafelv ioynef if her father will ) the titles of 
 Britany and Portugal together, fhe is al(o 
 ynmarried , and by her marriage may make 
 fome other compofirion , either at home oc 
 abroade,that may facillirate the matter , fhe is 
 a great Princelleand fit for fome great rrate,an4 
 other Princes perhapps of Chriftendpmc 
 would more willingly yeald and cqncurr to 
 fuch a compofition, of matters by this Lady, 
 ^nd by carting all forraine titles of Britanieand 
 i^urtugal vpport her, then that the king of 
 
 Kk Spayne 
 
AXlonJemce touching fuccef Sim ' 
 Spaync f hould pretend for himfelf,& there by 
 cncrcafe his monarchie, which other Princes 
 his neyghbours in reafon of (late, would not 
 (o well allow or beare. 
 
 Inlnglandalfo it felfeifany partye or per- 
 fon be affeded that way , he would thinke 
 heeiby to haue the more reafon, and if any be 
 againft ftraingers , fome fuch moderation as 
 this would take away much of this auerfion,as 
 alfoofargumentsagaynft it:for that hecrby it 
 lemeth that no fubieiSio could be feared to any 
 forrayne realme, but rather diuers vtilities to 
 the realme of Inglade,as thefe meprerede by the 
 reafbns before alleaged in the precedet chapter. 
 
 Ifaidalfo, that this Lady Infanta, or fomc 
 other by her title and her fathers good v vil^was 
 likeft of all ftraingers to beare it away , for that 
 if fhc fhould either dye or be married in any 
 other countrye,or otherwife to be difpofed of, 
 ashcrpretecetoingland fhould bedifinabled 
 before this affayrccarhe to be tried, then may 
 her faid father and f he if they lift,caft their fore 
 faideinterefts and titles (as diuers menthinke 
 they w^ould) vppon fome other Prince of their 
 owne houfe and blood,as for example^eithcr 
 vppon fome of the families of Parma or Bra- 
 ganfa before mentioned > or of the houfe of 
 Auftria , feing theit wanreth not many able & 
 worthy Princes of that houfe^for whom there 
 would be the fame reafons and confiderations, 
 to perfuade their admiflion by the Inglif h,that 
 hauc bin alleaged before for the Infanta, & the 
 
tothecY&^^ne, Vm. 2. Cap. X. 2(?j 
 fame vtilities to the realoie, and motiues to In- 
 gUrhmen , if fach a matter fhouldcome in 
 coufultacion , and the fame frends and forces 
 would not want abroad ro aflift them. 
 
 For the fecond parte of my conie(5ture,tou- ^or thc^ 
 ching the earle of Hai rfords fecond fonne , or n^rtfor^ 
 one of the counteffeof Daibycs children, my fccondc 
 reafons be,firfl:for that this fecod foiie^^feemeth ^^'^jf' 
 to be cleercd in our foimer difcQurf^ of thatsup.c.^* 
 baftardy that moft importeih , and neereft of ai 
 other lyeth vppon thofe children, which is for 
 lack of due proofe of their parets marriage, for 
 which defeat ihey do ftand declared for illegi- 
 timate by publique fentence of the archbifhop . 
 of Canterbury, as before hath bin declared, 
 from which fentece this fecond fonne is made 
 free, by the argumerits before alleaged, and 
 therin preferred before his elder brother. 
 
 And fecondly foe that this yongcr fonne %^ 
 is vnmarried, for any thing that I do know 
 to the contrary, which may beapointe of no 
 fmalle moment in fuch an occafion>as hath bin 
 noted diners tymesbefore,forioyning or for- 
 tefying of tittles by marriage , and for making 
 of compofitions of peace andvnion with the 
 oppofire parties. And finally for that this fc- ^ 
 cond fonne,being yonge, his religion is not yet 
 much talked of^and confequently euery parrie 
 may haue hope to draw him to their fide, ef- 
 pecially he being alfo free as I haue faid to fol- 
 low what he f hal thinke beft,or moft expediet 
 forhisowneaduancemenc, without knott oc 
 K k 2 obliga^ 
 
1&6 A Conference touching fuccefwn 
 obligation to follow other mens afFccflions 
 iudgmets in that pointc , "as he would be prefu- 
 med to be if he were married, or much obliged 
 to any other famili'e. 
 jTo? iht^ rdon'ariiealfo m this fecond pointe^the chil- 
 t?th^ dren of the countefTeof Darby firft/or that in 
 CoutefTe truth the "probabilities of this houfc be very 
 ^^^"^^^ great, bothin rcfpeft of their difcent,which in 
 cfFedlisholden asit vvere cleearcfrom baftardy 
 as before hath bin f hewed,and then againe foic 
 their neeriVes in degree^Vv^hich by the counted^ 
 ' " yetliuiiig isiieerer to king Henry the (euenth 
 by bnedegree, then any other copetitor what- 
 tbeuer. Secondly I do name this countcffe chil- 
 dren & not her felfe,for thati fee mod me ihatf 
 faubur this hctife> very willing & dcfirous that 
 Torhe ofthe faid counteflfe children fkould ra- 
 ther be preferred then f he herfelfe, and this for 
 that fheiis a vvoman,&it feemeth to the much 
 to haue tlirec vvome reigne one after the other, 
 as b'cfoi'e hath bin noted,fo as they would haue 
 her litfc t6 be ca'ft rather vppon one of her 
 children, euen as vppon like occahon it hath 
 bin f hewed before , that the Spaniards caufed 
 Garibay the Lad)' Bcrengucla neece to king Henry the 
 tAsx.i6. j-^/^Qj^j^^Q tefigne her title to her fonne , when 
 f he f hould haue fu'cceeded by ncernes of inhe- 
 Polydor ^^^"c^^^" as a litle before that , the ftate ofln- 
 in tit gland did after king Stephen,vnto king Henry 
 the firfl: his daughter Maude'ihe Erapre(re,wh6 
 ihey cad fed to pafTe ouer her title to her fonne 
 Hcry the fecSd, though her o(^ne right f hould 
 
 haue 
 
tothecTolfyfte. fart Cap. X. 167 
 Jiaue gone before him by neernesoffuccefljonj 
 as alio f hould hauc done by orderly courfc 
 of fucceffion, the right of Margc-^ret , counre(Ic 
 of Richmond, before her foijne king Henry 
 the feuenthjas before hath bin proued, bur vet 
 we fee that her fbnnewas prtfcTred,& the 'ike 
 would rhefe men haue to be obltrued in ihc 
 tounteffe of Darby. 
 
 LaiUy I do name^rhe children of thiscoiin- 
 teffe in genera'^and not the earle cf D^^rby par- 
 ticulcrly aboue the other, though he be the i U 
 deft^ fortworefpedSjfirft, for rhathisyonger 
 brother is vnmarried,whichis acircumftancc 
 wherofdiuers tvities occafion hath bin ofFred 
 iorpeakebefore,andtherforelneedero ad no 
 further thcrin, ^fecondly forthatdiuers men 
 remaine not fo fully fatisficd & contented with 
 ;he courfecf that Lord hithcrto,and do thinkc 
 that they f hould do much better with his bro. 
 theriffobehef hal bethought morefirt^yec 
 arc theafc things vnccrtaine,as we fee, but not 
 withftanding (uch is the narure and faf hon 
 of man,to hope euer great matters ofyouthes, 
 cfpccially Princes , God fend al iuft defires to 
 take place, and with this I wil endc, and pafic, 
 
 nofuriher,hopingthatI hauc performed 
 the effcd of my promifle made 
 vnto you at the be- 
 ginninge. 
 
 f I N I S.